From: cheese@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Charles Alpert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Some Warriors jokes
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:45:43 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

Sorry I've taken so long to respond to the criticism of my jokes, but
I wanted to wait for today's USA Today to get some stats to help my
cause.  The general criticism stems from the fact that my claims have
no basis in reality.  For instance,

In article <1993Jan25.162102.16893@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>
>The problem with your jokes is that they have abso-fuckin-lutely
>nothing to do with reality.  I mean, I'm a Nellie-hater and a Warriors
>non-fan, and I couldn't see any point in your so-called jokes.

The jokes basically attacked Don Nelson for being a lousy coach
and Tim Hardaway for being a ball hog.  Now I'm not saying Hardaway is
terrible or Nelson is the worst coach, but I believe both of them are
extremely, highly, incredibly overrated.  It's unbelievable how
overrated this pair is, hence if there is some truth to this statement
then the jokes are funny.  A not funny joke would be making fun of
Sir Charles for not wanting to win or of Stockton for hogging the
ball since each statement has NO basis in reality.  Now you could make
fun of these two for other reasons - hell bring on the jokes, but it
will only be funny if they are based in reality.  On to my defense!


>
>To wit:
>
>>What do Chris Mullin and I have in common ?
>>
>>Tim Hardaway won't pass either one of us the ball.
>> [...]  Hardaway [...] won't give up the bulb.
>
>Hardaway doesn't pass?  Then how did he get 10.0 apg in 91-92,
>and about the same amount this year?

Oh boy, I'm licking my chops at this one.  What is Hardaway now,
2nd in the league in assists.  He's also 2nd in the league in minutes
played.  Let's look at the league leaders in minutes/game:

Mullin		1662
Hardaway	1646
Jordan		1539
Pippen		1526

Wow, Mullin and Hardaway have quite a lead.  I don't want to bother
figuring out how many more minutes Hardaway has than any other point
guard, but it's got to be around 200, and it probably averages around
300 (e.g. Stockton's minutes are 1350).  Thus, I think a comparison of
assists totals would be more accurate if we consider assists/48
minutes.  I'll also add FG% for fun.  Here's a partial incomplete list:

Stockton	17.21	45.7 %
A Johnson	13.80	51.0 %
M Bogues	12.66	47.4 %
Hardaway	12.56	43.7 %  OUCH !!
Douglas		11.95	44.6 %
H Williams	11.82	42.5 %  YIKES !!
Skiles		11.75	49.3 %
Price		11.75	51.8 %
G Grant		11.49	37.6 %  But he's a backup
Anthony		11.33	38.8 %  (Another Hardaway in the making)
Thomas		11.20	41.8 %  Can we stick a fork in him?
Murdock		11.00	46.6 %
Wiley		10.98	32.1 % (but just 81 FGA. and 81 assists)
Adams		10.86	43.9 %

Well, you get the idea.  There are 12 point guards dishing out
11 or more assists per 48 minutes and a whole bunch of them at
10 or more.  Now agreed, Hardaway is high up on the list.  But
consider, the Warriors play a faster paced game than any other
team in the NBA (maybe Pheonix?).  I would imagine (no hard data)
that there are 5-10% more possessions per team in a Warriors game
than an average NBA game.  Thus, if we could measure assists/team
possession while in the game, I would imagaine Hardaway would 
land right between those passing gurus Williams and Skiles.  Also,
consider that this faster paced game means more fast breaks and
it's a lot easier to get an assist on the break than in a half-court
offense.  Considering these factors, you could easily argue say
Greg Anthony is a better passer than Hardaway.

But the fact that I claim Hardaway hogs the ball has little to do
with the fact that he's not an ELITE passer.  Let's look at
the league leaders in FGA's (agreed not per 48/min but Hardaway
would be up there nevertheless).

Jordan		1016	48.3 %
Mullin		805	51.9 %
Hakeem		733	53.3 %
Hardaway	730	43.7 %
Ewing		711	48.7 %

Aside riddle:
What's the definition of Chutzpah ?

Jordan telling BJ he shoots too much.

Wow, 4th in the league in attempts!  and 43.7 %!  That's some
chutzpah!  You could say, well he gets to the line a lot, and 
he does, but his FT% isn't even that great for a guard 75.6%
No surprise he holds that 0-17 record.

But the Warriors suck right?  He has to shoot!  Which Warriors
shoot better than Hardaway?  How about Mullin, Owens, Marciulionis,
Sprewell, Jennings, Hill, Grayer, Gatling, Alexander, Houston,
Pressey, Lister.  The only Warriors that shoot worse are Buechler
(barely) and Nealy.  12 Guys shoot better than hardaway (2 being
hurt)!!  12 !!  There is absolutely no question that Hardaway
hurts the Warriors by his gunning.   He is one of the worst
shooters on the Warriors.  He is one of the poorer shooting 
point guards in the league.  At least most of the other point
guards who can't shoot don't shoot.  His assists totals are 
nothing special.  He clearly has the talent to become the best
point guard in the NBA if he simply took fewer and better shots.
His assists would go up, his FG% would climb and the Warriors
would win a lot more.  Right now he's not even close.

Price, Stockton, A Johnson, Payton are all clearly having
much better years.


>>[...] Don Nelson's [...] can't coach
>
>Personally I think he's a very good coach and a lousy GM, but I admit
>that that's debatable.
>
>>[...] earthquakes and Warriors first round playoff losses have [...]
>>Both are relatively frequent Bay Area occurrences 
>
>In their recent incarnation, the Warriors reached the playoff four
>times:  in 1987, 89, 91 and 92.  The first three times they *won*
>in the first round, upsetting a higher ranked opponent (Utah, Utah,
>San Anton.)  Last year was the first time they lost in the first round
>of the playoffs since 1972.
>
>I wish that earthquakes were that rare!
>
>>[...] Don Nelson and I [...]
>>Neither one of us has been to an NBA finals.
>
>So who was that guy that sank the funny shot to beat the Lakers in
>game 7 at the Forum in 1969?  
>
>--Gidi
>
>

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot about that game.  I must have been a fetus
then.  That response is like saying, "That's not true, he was
in the 3rd row in the 1990 finals, cause he's so close with Chuck
Daly."  The spirit of the joke was he's never coached a team to
the NBA finals in many years of coaching, hence putting him up
there with the coaching elite is a crock.  But the media does,
he won coach of the year last year and at least one other time.

There's no question he's a lousy GM.  Everyone talks about how
he does so well with so little talent.  Well why does he have so
little talent?  Whose fault is that?  Anyone can build a .500
ball club with no chance to contend.  Look at what they're doing
in Philly.

As far as the earthquake joke goes, you were right.  it only 
happened once, but in the papers and on talk shows, fans were
acting like "Do you think Seattle could possibly win a game?
Is there any chance of this?  No"  The Warriors won 55 games and
people were talking about them as a serious candidate to go to
the finals.  Anyone who thought they could is an idiot.

Finally, as far as Nelson's "coaching ability", why on earth
do Mullin and Hardaway have 100 more minutes logged in than
Jordan?  Last year they were burned out for the playoffs and
if they somehow make the playoffs they'll be burned out again.
Come on, that's like starting your ace 50 times a year.  At least
that's the case with Mullin.  Hardaway should sit awhile for
other reasons.

C'mon people, let's see some jokes.

49 shots, 1 assist ?  49 shots ?  49 fucking shots?

Chuck Alpert