HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ath@linkoping.trab.se (Anders Thulin)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Debasing other people's designs (Was: help make fonts for GNU)
Date: 13 Sep 92 07:18:54 GMT
Organization: Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden

In article <PCG.92Sep11211443@aberdb.aber.ac.uk> pcg@aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) writes:
>
>[...] But many works of intellect, includign
>typefaces, mere lists, obvious ideas, mental processes, and so on, don't
>belong to anybody, not even to their authors, and it is perfectly fair
>to make use of them.

It should be noted that that statement is correct only in a certain
legal environment. It is not generally true.

A few countries do allow legal protection for lists and directories,
although usually for a few years only.  Other countries do protect
typefaces. Within such countries it is *not* fair to make free use of
this kind of material.

>Anybody asserting property rights to a typeface is exactly on the
>same ground as somebody claiming they own the air you breath. 
>
>Typefaces are public domain. 

Typefaces *may* be public domain, depending on where you are.

In Germany typefaces (=designs) are strongly protected by law, unless
I'm much mistaken.  Practices which are OK (legally) in the US such as
redigitizing large-scale printouts, are not permitted.

-- 
Anders Thulin       ath@linkoping.trab.se 
Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
From: Dave.Beaujean@davespc.mi.org (Dave Beaujean)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Gil Sans
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:39:00 GMT

Hi All!

Does anyone know what an equivelant to Gil Sans would be?
I need it to use the samples that come with Aldus Persuasion
and I can't seem to find it on the program disks???

Thanks,

Sincerely,

Confused
From: cxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Christopher Fenton)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Bar Coded ZIp Codes
Date: 8 Sep 1992 13:18:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


        Gang:


        Does anybody have any thoughts/suggestions regarding the
font required to place a bar coded zip code on a envelope??? What
are the size restrictions and other specifications????  I need
a font that is downloadable to a non-postscript HP laser printer.

	Please e-mail me any suggestions or comments and if I
get enough responses, I'll post a summary.

	Thanks


	C. H. Fenton


-- 
    cxf12          ---===<<< A I S Computer Operations >>>===---
@po.cwru.edu               Case Western Reserve University
Christopher H. Fenton    "Faster Pussycat... Kill, Kill!!!!"
From: fjk4i@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Frederick Joseph Keith)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Calligraphic ATM font needed
Date: 5 Sep 92 14:56:36 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia


I'm looking for an Adobe Type 1 font that is similar to
hand-drawn calligraphy.  PD, shareware or $$$ are all fine with
me.  Please e-mail suggestions; I'll post a summary of
responses if warranted.

Thanks!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
F. Joseph Keith           University of Virginia    
Internet: fjk4i@virginia.edu 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Fontographer for Windows
From: gardner_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Andy Gardner)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:27:14 GMT
Reply-To: gardner_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ

Could someone please email me with the email address or fax number
so I can contact the authors of Fontographer.

Thanks
Andy Gardner       "Yeah, gidday mate"
At home in Wellington, New Zealand...
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: ariel@seer.gentoo.com (Cathy Hampton)
Subject: Re: FAQ for this group?
Summary: Please email me the FAQ too. :>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:30:21 GMT
Expires: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Brad Lanam,  Walnut Creek, CA
Followup-To: comp.fonts

Please email me the FAQ for this group, too,  if one exists. 

Ariel

Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: LaserMaster Fonts
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:52:41 GMT

Does anyone know of software which will convert a LaserMaster font to 
PS (type 3) or to TrueType, and visa versa?  

---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141

Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2684 gnu.misc.discuss:3028
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Debasing other people's designs (Was: help make fonts for GNU)
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:11:29 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <1618@idacrd.UUCP>, purtill@idacrd.UUCP (Mark Purtill) writes:
> 	In the United States, NO fonts are covered by copyright (that
> is, the glyphs themselves; you can copyright computer programs to
> draw the glyphs).  So no *legal* issues are involved.

To clarify: 

A typeface is defined as a set of letters, numbers, or other symbolic 
characters, whose forms are related by repeating design elements consistently 
applied in a notational system and are intended to be embodied in articles 
whose intrinsic utilitarian function is for use in composing text or other 
cognizable combinations of characters.

A font is the computer file or program that is used to represent or create 
the typeface.
 
No typefaces may be registered for copyright per Copyright Office regulation 
37 CFR 202.1(e).

Bitmapped fonts are also not copyrightable.  "'data that merely represents an 
electronic depiction of a particular typeface or individual letterform' is 
also not registerable."  Copyright Office, 2/21/92, Federal Register vol. 57 
p. 6201.

The same statement strongly implies that scalable fonts constitute computer 
programs and are therefore registareable for copyright.  That language is 
admittedly unclear.


Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
From: ulma@coli.uni-sb.de (Ulrich Mayring)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Why Unicode is 16-bit
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:22:20 GMT
Organization: U of Saarbruecken, Dept. of Computational Linguistics

opstad@Apple.COM (David Opstad) writes:

>In article <1992Sep4.203521.4099@adobe.com> caro@adobe.UUCP  (Perry A. Caro) writes:
>>P.S.
>>Speaking of bigger, why oh why is UNICODE 16-bit based?  Can you say
>>major byteswapping headaches?  I still think Xerox's interpreted sequence
>>of bytes, with infinitely expandable space, is the better solution.

>Actually, Unicode is a 16-bit standard, and explicitly NOT a 2-octet
>standard, specifically to avoid byteswapping problems. And I have to say,
>
 (some amusing anecdotal stuff deleted)

a *real* character encoding would be uniformly 16-bit, since computers
>were growing up and memory wasn't as dear as it used to be in the days
>of $300 for 16K for your Apple II...

Then why not go on to 32 bit? It would come a lot closer to including ALL
characters of ALL languages. (BTW does anybody know if 32 bit would suffice
or would we need still more? Assuming we only wanted to include spoken
languages, not dead ones)
I bet all my ASCII-tables in the back of every book I have that by the time
the ISO would be done with a 32 bit standard, there will be laughter at any
computer/OS with less than 64 bit.   :-) but true nonetheless.

Or is it?


     Ulrich Mayring
     volksdesign.

       - Echte Froehlichkeit kommt aus dem Herzen -
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 11:24:39 TUR
From: <E59387@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: looking for a bitmap font editor in X11?


Hi, I'm looking for a bitmap font editor in X11. I think there are not

such a program. So  we think to modify bitmap editor  in X11 or combine

bitmap editor with XFD (font displayer).But has already anyone done this

before or doing.


Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome!


THANKS.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,gnu.misc.discuss
From: dhosek@cbrown.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: URW Font CD-ROM
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:03:27 PDT

In article <B54RqB1w164w@tischer.Gwinnett.COM>, tischer@tischer.Gwinnett.COM (Steve Tischer) writes:
> carlp@hp-vanc.hp.com (Carl Peterson) writes:
>>   I have before me a short article about a CD-ROM
>> offered by the German type foundry URW called
>> TypeWorks.  The CD-ROM is supposed to contain
>> a collection of some 3,000 Type 1 fonts, all
>> unlocked, for a reasonable price.
 
> Carl, I have here a book from URW showing all the fonts on the CD.  The
> whole CD looks very good to me.  I was at URW week before last for the
> DIDOT Typographic Seminar and they gave us all a copy of that book,
> which is also called TypeWorks.  It is a couple of inches thick and is
> probably available from URW in this country.
 
> As far as the quality of the fonts goes, there are many of the ITC
> fonts in the set since that work goes on at URW there in Hamburg.  Plus,
> many of the font developers of the world use the URW system.  Many of 
> the fonts in the book/CD are the industry standard ones.  

What does that mean? Are these actually licensed designs? If
they're not using the actual trade names, these are not
legitimate versions and I would hesitate to call them "industry
standard."

-dh

Don Hosek                  
dhosek@ymir.claremont.edu  
Quixote Digital Typography 
714-621-1291


Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2666 gnu.misc.discuss:3003
From: purtill@idacrd.UUCP (Mark Purtill)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Debasing other people's designs (Was: help make fonts for GNU)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:01:38 GMT
Organization: idacrd, princeton, nj

peterd@pjd.dev.cdx.mot.com (Peter Desnoyers) writes:
>In my complete lack of information, I would assume that what the GNU
>project is doing is scanning fonts *** not covered by copyright ***
>and converting them into outline form.
	In the United States, NO fonts are covered by copyright (that
is, the glyphs themselves; you can copyright computer programs to
draw the glyphs).  So no *legal* issues are involved.

^.-.^ Mark Purtill, purtill@ccr-p.ida.org || purtill%idacrd@uunet.uu.net
((")) \@_: IDA/CCR-P, Thanet Road, Princeton NJ  08540;  (609) 924-4600.
Alternate email: purtill%idacrd@princeton.edu UUCP: uunet!idacrd!purtill
From: wdrdjh@thor.cf.ac.uk (Dr D J Harvey 92)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Needed : 'Old' Roman Font
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:58:44 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, Wales, UK
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

I need a font that looks as if it has been carved in stone by the Romans (not
to be confused with Normal 'Roman' type fonts). I'm told by a friend that
something like 'Times Loose Roman' would be appropriate, but can't find
anything suitable in the anonymous FTP archives.

Ideas (preferably with suggested source) would be much appreciated.

Dave Harvey
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin)
Subject: Re: intro to typography
Keywords: typography
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 21:29:09 GMT

fkuhl@snare.mitre.org (F. S. Kuhl) writes:
>I want a basic intro to typography--can anybody recommend a book?
>I have enough fonts to be dangerous & would like to do them well.

The Mac is not a Typewriter
Robin Williams, PeachPit Press, 72 pages

(There's a PC version as well)

    This very short book is to the point, has good example, and covers
    the essentials.

The Thames & Hudson Manual of typography
Rauri McLean, Thames & Hudson

    An excellent book if you start getting more interested in type.
    Look for Rauri McLean's other books after this one...

There are some excellent large-format books, and if I remember I shall post
some details of them.  I don't know what country you're in -- but look for
graphics design magazines.  `Graphics World' is a readily acessible English
one, and `Print' is easy to find in the US; `Applied Arts' is a Canadian
publication, `Design World' Australian, and EC&I I think American.

Again, if you get interested, there are more specialist magazines and
journals, such as Upper and Lower Case, Baseline, and so forth.

Lee

-- 
Liam Quin, lee@sq.com, SoftQuad, Toronto, 416 239-4801; the barefoot programmer
  lq-text (Unix text retrieval package) mailing list: lq-text-request@sq.com
  latest released version: 1.10; ftp: ftp.cs.toronto.edu in directory: pub
  If Adultery is for Adults, is Juvenal for Juveniles?
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: harper@convex.com (David Harper)
Subject: Re: URW Font CD-ROM
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:46:49 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <B54RqB1w164w@tischer.Gwinnett.COM> tischer@tischer.Gwinnett.COM (Steve Tischer) writes:
>carlp@hp-vanc.hp.com (Carl Peterson) writes:
>>   I have before me a short article about a CD-ROM
>> offered by the German type foundry URW called
>> TypeWorks.
>
 [stuff deleted]
>
>I think the Mac CD is available now and the PC version is coming any
>day now.  
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Steve Tischer

This all sounds very interesting - any idea how to get ahold of this outfit?
Do they have internet access?  Depending on the price, I might be interested
in ordering the PC version.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave Harper    -     Convex Computer Corp.            E-mail address:
3000 Waterview Pky.  Richardson, TX 75080             harper@convex.com
From: James Petts <pettsj@visigoth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Egyptian Language Fonts
Organization: No Affiliation
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 06:58:27 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

I am looking for fonts which i can use to set Middle Egyptian (basically 
= Ancient Egyptian) either in hieroglyphic, hieratic or demotic
characters.
Before I go ahead and start coding up between 800 and 3000 glyhps in
METAFONT
I thought I'd ask out here. Does anybody know of any  fonts of these 
types which are already available in Type 1 or MF format. Commercial, 
shareware, or freeware, I don't mind.

James Petts

********************************************************************
* "We use the classical theory on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, *   
*  and the quantum theory on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays."   *
************************************** Wm. Bragg *******************
From: msg@csn.org (Michael Barton)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: What's the diff between Type1 and Type3 Fonts?
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:00:05 GMT
Followup-To: comp.fonts
Distribution: usa
Organization: csn.org

I found a font I want to use... but it is a Type 3 font.  What is
different between this and a Type 1 font?

Michael Barton
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: dhosek@lucy.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: Debasing other people's designs (Was: help make fonts for GNU)
Followup-To: comp.fonts
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:49:54 PDT

In article <5540@dove.nist.gov>, gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan) writes:
> In article <1992Sep13.234559.1@hmcvax.claremont.edu> dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu writes:
>>The claim that typefaces are public domain is simply not true.
>>Copyright protection of typefaces exists in Germany, France, and
>>the United Kingdom (that's right, Mr. Grandi, the very country
>>from which you are posting). Furthermore, in countries in which
>>copyright protection is not available (e.g., the United States),
>>typefaces have been successfully protected using a design patent.
>>This is a more limited protection, however.
 
> I have read several references to design patents in association with
> typefaces (Bigelow and Holmes's Lucida Bright family comes to mind)
> but I do not know what this really means. Could someone who is
> conversant with the concept explain to us legal ignoramuses what a
> design patent protects, how it differs from a copyright, and how this
> protection would apply in the case of someone designing a similar
> typeface by nontrivial means (i.e., designing from scratch---rather
> than digitizing and fitting splines---a font that is recognizably
> similar but not identical)?

A design patent applies to a new design of some sort. e.g., if I
came up with a new and different appearance for a lamp that I
wanted to protect, I could apply for a design patent. The problem
is that to receive design patent protection requires that a face
be rather unique. Since many people don't realize that there are,
e.g., several families of serif faces (I've encountered more than
one person who was unaware of the difference between Times and
Computer Modern, for example), this is a process made even more
difficult than usual. For the same reasons, infringement
litigation is also more difficult.

Furthermore, patent protection, unlike copyright protection, is
not subject to international protection. (Under the most recent
Copyright treaty, any work is protected for at least 75 years in
nearly every country, regardless of whether a notice appears or
not). Terms of protection are shorter (I think 12 years or so,
non-renewable).

-dh
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: css0860@summa.tamu.edu (CSS)
Subject: Where to get ATM fonts, where is a rune font
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Reply-To: css0860@zeus.tamu.edu
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:16:00 GMT

Greetings all...I am looking for ftp sites that I can get some
fonts from.  I am also specificly looking for rune fonts.  Any
help would be appreciated.  I'll post a sum if there is interest.

-steve
	

---------------------------------------------------------------------
C. Steven Suehs, a Texas A&M University Biochem/Computer Sci Major
whose opinions probably are not shared by Academic Computing Services.
Dick Clark did not say "I think, therefore I am!"  It was Descartes
who walked into a bar and was asked "Have a beer, sire?"
"I think not."  >poof< and he was gone.
 .signature.virus--.signature.reverse.transcriptase
Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2673 gnu.misc.discuss:3019
From: ari@netcom.com (Ari Davidow)
Subject: Re: Unicode and Fonts
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 22:22:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald) writes:

>In article <qcqnd+-.ari@netcom.com> ari@netcom.com (Ari Davidow) writes:


>>Apple's proposed line layout manager =will= provide a consistent, and
>>on the Mac, standard way of handling the contradiction between character
>>and glyph.

>Will it allow anything that can be done using physical metal type,
>by hand, from as many boxes of type as one choses?

 don't know. It's an unfair question since there are so many
things we can do on computer that weren't conceivable with metal.

ari   
>

C
C
C
C
C
                      Doug McDonald
Xref: sparky comp.fonts:2701 comp.os.ms-windows.apps:2765 comp.os.ms-windows.misc:3019
From: rassilon@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Brian Preble)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts,comp.os.ms-windows.apps,comp.os.ms-windows.misc
Subject: Re: Font Families in MS-Windows 3.1 TrueType?
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:55:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Sep15.015552.25204
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep14.082651.7306@rcvie.co.at> cc_paul@rcvie.co.at (Wolf N. Paul) writes:
>I have run into a problem using the Alltype conversion utility
>to convert fonts from a variety of sources into Truetype for use with
>Windows 3.1.
>
>The problem: I am unable to figure out how to convert the four
>standard variants (Regular, Italic, Bold, Bold-Italic) in such a way
>that Windows 3.1 will recognize them as a family. They always show
>up as four separate fonts, which means that in Word for Windows, for

The DOS version of Alltype had this problem.  It has been fixed in
the Windows version.  In the mean time, I recommend you use a shareware
product called "renamett".  It will solve your problem.  If it's not
already on CICA I'll upload it tonight.
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
From: henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton)
Subject: Re: Egyptian Language Fonts
Organization: Trilithon Software
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:40:16 GMT

In article <Bu8zDG.41F@gate.demon.co.uk> James Petts  
<pettsj@visigoth.demon.co.uk> writes:
    *  I am looking for fonts which i can use to set Middle Egyptian (basically 
    *  = Ancient Egyptian) either in hieroglyphic, hieratic or demotic
    *  characters.
    *  Before I go ahead and start coding up between 800 and 3000 glyhps in
    *  METAFONT
    *  I thought I'd ask out here. Does anybody know of any  fonts of these 
    *  types which are already available in Type 1 or MF format. Commercial, 
    *  shareware, or freeware, I don't mind.
    *  
	Linguists Software,
	PO Box 580,
	Edmonds,
	Washington 98020 0580.
	(206) 775-1130
From: koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180)
Newsgroups: comp.fonts
Subject: Re: Why Unicode is 16-bit
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:18:19 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD

In article <1992Sep8.113126.1@cbrown.claremont.edu>, dhosek@cbrown.claremont.edu writes:
|> The problem is that text-sorting algorithims are greatly
|> complicated by having multiple characters representing a single
|> sorting unit. This is a general problem of course (for example,
|> in Spanish, ch, ll and rr are each treated as single letters so,
|> e.g., lo comes before llegar in an alphabetized list of Spanish
|> words, on the other hand, in an American English dictionary, i
|> and i-with-diaresis would be treated as the same letter for
|> sorting purposes). The approach of coding diacriticals separately
|> has both advantages and disadvantages and I don't think that
|> it's quite the closed book represented here.

The general problem of sorting multigraphs, symbol sets in which
diacritics are taken into account in special ways, etc., can be
solved with sorting handles.   A handle is essentially a function of
strings that generates a set of strings that can be easily and
properly collated.  I was introduced to this idea by Dr. Robert Hsu,
of the Department of Linguistics at the University of Hawaii, though
I don't believe he claims to have originated it.  He discusses a
variety of techniques for constructing handle functions in a book he
is writing on linguistic data processing.

This has nothing to do with Unicode, of course.  It's already needed
with good old ASCII, even for English, e.g., to handle treating upper
and lower case letters alike.  However, knowing that there are well
understood techniques for sorting complexly collated symbol sets may
be reasuring to anyone facing Unicode for the first time!

----
John E. Koontz (koontz@bldr.nist.gov)

Disclaimer:  Views and recommendations, express or implied, are my own, and
do not reflect the opinion or policy of my employers.