HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Bush Jet Sale Shoots Down Security Policy, Says BASIC
Organization: NDA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:14:26 GMT

Here is a press release from the British American Security Information
Council. [Note from NDA: I have never heard of this group before, and do
not know who supports it.]
 
 Bush Jet Sale Shoots Down Security Policy, Says BASIC
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Natalie Goldring or Sandra Ionno, 202-745-2457,
          both of the British American Security Information Council

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The F-15s being sold to
Saudi Arabia represent the most capable fighter aircraft the United
States has ever built.  The sale -- worth as much as $5 billion -- is
likely to include 48 F-15XPs, based upon the F-15E, and 24 F-15Hs.
The F-15XP is an export version of the F-15, but it still uses the
airframe of the F-15E, which has never been exported.
   British American Security Information Council (BASIC) Deputy
Director Dr. Natalie J. Goldring stated, "Selling our most advanced
fighter to the region at this time contradicts the president's own
commitment to avoid destabilizing sales.  It also clinches the demise
of the Big Five talks on conventional arms restraint, already
jeopardized by last week's Taiwan announcement."
   Goldring continued, "Even though we have sold billions of dollars
of arms to the Saudis in the past, we still had to risk American
lives to protect Saudi territory after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
Because of the Saudis' difficult-to-defend borders and the lack
of trained personnel, the Saudis are never likely to be able to
provide for their own defense."
   In 1991, U.S. arms agreements with Saudi Arabia alone exceeded
U.S. global arms sales in 1990.  "These weapons could end up in
someone else's hands some day.  We were the Shah of Iran's primary
arms supplier in the 1970s.  Arms sales do not produce stability."
 -30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: deb@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (David Barrett)
Subject: Hidden Words
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:39:29 GMT


O SON OF MY HANDMAID!

Quaff from the tongue of the merciful the stream of divine mystery, and 
behold from the day-spring of divine utterance the unveiled splendor of
the day-star of wisdom. Sow the seeds of My divine wisdom in the pure
soil of the heart, and water them with the waters of certitude, that the 
hyacinths of knowledge and wisdom may spring up fresh and green from the
holy city of the heart.

Baha'u'llah
Hidden Words
From: aull@ll.mit.edu (Brian Aull)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Science and Religion article - Part 6 (final part)
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:47:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.


Conclusion

In this essay, I have presented science  and  religion  as  complementary
  
aspects of human experience.   Science  and  religion  use  some  parallel
methods  but serve different purposes.   Science strives for  facts,  religion  
for  values.   Each studies a reality but also operates within the limits of an 
imperfect  perception  or understanding of that  reality.   Furthermore,  each  
should  influence  the  operation  of the other.   The discovery of facts must  
contribute  to  the  context  of  the search for values.   Conversely, values 
must guide the search for facts  and  their practical applications.

A disjointed view of human life, which  attempts  to  divorce  faith  and
reason, is a condition that currently afflicts humanity.   Its  symptoms  are 
the corruption of values and the misapplication  of  facts.   It  is  my  hope that  this work  has contributed in some measure to the healing of this sickness
and  the reintegration of the human self.

Works Cited

'Abdu'l-Baha.   Paris Talks.   London: Baha'i Publishing Trust, 1972.

The  Promulgation  of  Universal  Peace.   Wilmette:  Baha'i  Publishing  Trust, 1982.

The Reality of Man.   New Delhi: Baha'i Publishing Trust, 1971.

Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha.   Trans. Marzieh  Gail. Comp.
Universal House of Justice.   Haifa: Baha'i World Centre, 1978.

Baha'i World Faith.   Wilmette: Baha'i Publishing Trust, 1976.

Baha'i Prayers.   Wilmette: Baha'i Publishing Trust, 1985
From: deb@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (David Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Faith
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:39:42 GMT
Organization: University of Engineering, College of Engineering

The dust of the earth does not question the sky to be blue.  So it is
with humanity to question the whereabouts and existance of the Sun at
night.  To know that it will rise in the morning is a belief in being
part of something bigger than our own vain imaginings.

"O SON OF BEING!

Busy not thyself with this world, for with fire We test the gold, and
with gold We test Our servants.

O SON OF DUST!

Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears,
that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty
thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and
sanctify thyself from riches, thatthou mayest obtain a lasting share
from the ocean of My eternal wealth.  Blind thine eyes, that is, to
all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself
of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a
pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My
holiness."

quoted parts:
Baha'u'llah
Hidden Words
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: Scott Duncan <duncan@ctt.bellcore.com>
Subject: Religious Authority
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:10:54 GMT


In discussions that I have seen in this newsgroup as well as talk.religion.misc,
it often seems a belief in God is opposed by a belief that it is inconsistent
with the way things are in the world or the rules/defininions in the world.

I'd like to start a discussion about what poeople think the legitimate claim to
authority would be for a belief in God.  I don't see how belief in God (as we
often understand God to be defined, e.g., omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) can be
expecvted to be separated from a belief that God has a "right" to define how
the world should operate.  If this conflicts with how the world does operate,
then it does not seem to me that God (or His Message delivered through various
Manifestations, Messengers, or Prophets) should be expected to adopt the view
of humanity in order to legitimize the religious position.

I can fully accept that people will reject religious belief because they feel
it is inconsiustent with their view of the world, etc.  But to suggest that a
religion should not be able to claim a view different from what humanity now
holds (including holding different interpretations of rights, equality, law,
etc.) seems to deny it what non-religious philosophies are permitted (though
they may, also, be disagreed with as well).

What I have noted is a sense that some feel religion cannot offer a different
view of the world and that, in offering such a view, it can be dismissed be-
cause of that fact alone.  Again, I am not suggesting religious views can not
(and should not) be examined critically, but it seems they are often dismissed
simply because they differ from what humanity currently practices.

My sense is that this is what religion is about (at one level):  telling the
world how to bring itself into agreement with spiritual laws.  That these dif-
fer from secular ones (and their interpretation) should not be surprising,
therefore.

Speaking only for myself, of course, I am...
Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan)
                (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane  RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ  08854)
                (908-699-3910 (w)   609-452-9054 (h))
---------------------------------

Scott   (email) duncan@ctt.bellcore.com (Internet)
             OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan (UUCP)
        (voice) 908-699-3910 (w)   609-452-9054 (h)
	(USMAIL) Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane  RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ  08854
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Religious Authority
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:43:11 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Sep8.133017.21118@newscan.canada.sun.com> Scott Duncan
<duncan@ctt.bellcore.com> writes:

>I don't see how belief in God (as we often understand God to be
>defined, e.g., omnipotent, omniscient, etc.) can be expected to be
>separated from a belief that God has a "right" to define how the
>world should operate.  If this conflicts with how the world does
>operate, then it does not seem to me that God (or His Message
>delivered through various Manifestations, Messengers, or Prophets)
>should be expected to adopt the view of humanity in order to
>legitimize the religious position.

I disagree.

If you were to encounter a religion which demanded child sacrifice, you
would react by deciding that injuring unconsenting persons is wrong.  Then,
you would decide that since the religion demands something which is wrong,
its adherents do not truly understand what God wants, since God would not
demand something that is wrong.

You would not decide "if that religion is truly from God, I cannot criticize
its practice of injuring unconsenting people, since God has a "right" to allow
someone to kill children".  And I feel that it is a double standard to make
such a claim for God when your belief is involved, while at the same time
denying such a claim when the belief belongs to someone else.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: dean@coconut.rsmas.miami.edu (Dean Churchill)
Subject: Miami survived the hurricane
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:28:21 GMT


The Baha'is in the hurricane-stricken communities of Miami, South Dade
County, Central Dade Country, Key Largo, and the rest of the Florida
Keys are safe, though some of their homes have been severely damaged.
As of Thursday, Sep. 3, little information on the Baha'is of Homestead
has gotten out.  If anyone has information on Baha'i relatives or
friends in Holmstead, I would appreciate hearing the same. 

-----------
Dean Churchill
Asst. Professor of Meteorology
Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science
University of Miami
(and vice-chairman Miami Assembly)
(305) 361-4048 (office)
(305) 856-2158 (home)

Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
From: Scott Duncan <duncan@ctt.bellcore.com>
Subject: Religion's Place in Society
Organization: Sun Microsystems of Canada, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:10:54 GMT



I'd like to start some threads on this topic.  On the assumption that it will
branch out into a number of sub-topics, I'd also like to suggest some of them
at the outset with Subject: lines that might be used --

	o Religion's Role in Social Morality

	  I have in mind here how religion does and should (or should not)
	  impact the moral standards of society, including those which find
	  their way into laws and ordinances.  While many people find no
	  objection to religion as an individual force, it is clear many do
	  not wish to see moral positions, as proposed by various religions,
	  finding their way into the legal system.  I'd be interested in hear-
	  ing how people think they can be properly separated.  For example,
	  if a person has a moral position withpout reference to religious be-
	  lief, but it is similar to positions held by those who have regilious
	  beliefs on the matter, in what way would this affect whether the
	  moral stand should or should not be voted into law?

	o Religion and Education

	  Basically, do people feel there is a place for religion in our
	  educational system?  I mean this from the perspective of even
	  studying about its impact on history, politics, etc.  It is clear
	  constitutional interpretation takes the position that there can
	  be no advocaacy of religion in the public schools, but does this
	  have to mean no discussion of it?  For example, while we do not
	  routinely conduct discussion of political parties, platforms, etc.
	  in schools, the impact of these is discussed and even studied.

	o Religious "Truth"

	  I'd like to avoid a pure science vs religion debate here, but I am
	  interested in what people's views are of the value of religious
	  Writings and beliefs as they affect social life.  Do people feel
	  it is possible for apparent conflicts between scientific beliefs
	  and theories to be reconciled with the religious explanations and
	  guidance in such matters?  Can they be talking about different as-
	  pects of a single "truth" or must they be mutually distinct?

I'm sure there are other possible topics in this general one.  These are just
three I thought of off the top of my head that seemed of interest to me.

Speaking only for myself, of course, I am...
Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan)
                (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane  RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ  08854)
                (908-699-3910 (w)   609-452-9054 (h))
From: Steven.Kolins@lambada.oit.unc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Religious Authority
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:39:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep12.035048.2042
Organization: -


	Religious authority and the perception of that authority are
two different things.

	God certainly has the right to declare the sacrifice of
children to all mankind.  "He doeth whatever He willeth." However to
declare that this is something God would do is merely to tilt the
argument with horror, even if the point is to examine cultural short
sightedness, (the idea that God wouldn't offend MY sensibilities
because they are correct.) God determines the form of His authority in
the world.  And this authority carries a great burden - to joke about
abuse and horror on this point is to poke fun at the lamed and
afflicted.  Ethical considerations of power are just a dim reflection
of the things needing consideration at this level.

	In terms of perception of authority, however, the test of the
fruit ["Ye shall know them by their fruits."  Jesus, Matt. 7:16 --rdt]
may still be applied because religious truth is constructive and
progressive and otherwise Holy.  If one pauses and thinks, looks to
the context, the goal, the hope and fear, ... in short if one looks to
the fruit of the impact of a law of God, one should find that it is
naught but for the best.  So some religion claiming a law from God may
have no fruit, no reasonable application - NOT some cultural biased
opinion or evaluation.  If it has no fruit, it isn't from God.  Then
comes the hazardous duty to look for fruit.  And if there's no fruit,
the challenge to declare a supposed law wrong rests on those with the
authority of those to do so, ( as opposed to those who can choose for
themselves, limiting the decision they reach to themselves.)

	Until that determination is made, one must consider the law in
question, and if it seems distasteful to oneself, the consequences of
disobedience.  By this i do not mean any divine chastisement
(lightening from the blue sky...)  I mean the undermining effect, the
disunity ( look at Somolia.)  [Which is in fact the chastisement of
God - our own horror upon ourselves.]

Steven
steven.kolins@bbs.oit.unc.edu
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Contradictions in Quran?
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:42:19 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <23AUG199214385732@iago.caltech.edu> johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik A. Johnson) writes:
[...]

   Look at the histories of the peoples of interest here.

   1. The Torah was given through Moses to a people who, though often
      disobedient, had a longstanding belief on the One God, back six or
      seven hundred years to Abraham.

   2. Likewise, Jesus came to the Jewish people, who had at that time, believed
      in the One God for nearly two millenia.

   3. Muhammad, on the other hand, (if I remember my Islamic history ... if not
      please accept my humble apologies and correct me) came to a people who
      were largely pagan, worshiping a plethura of gods.

The pagans of Mekka were knowing Abraham also. When the prophet
conquered Mekka, he came to the Kaaba and saw that there was a picture
inside of it of Abraham (pbuh). So, they knew of Abraham also.
Although they were pagans at that time, in contrast to the previous
prophets, the last was sent to ALL humans till the day of
ressurection. Your analogy that they (mostly) were not knowing
multiplication is right, but they performed better than Christians and
Jews!

   So in this sense, the fact that Muhammad came later chronologically does not
   necessarily imply a superiority of teaching that abrogates the (chronologically)
   earlier teachings.

It is also for you. It is not only for pagans. 

   God bless!


   Erik A. Johnson, Graduate Student        \ Internet:  johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
   Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering  \
   University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign \ AmericaOnline: ErikAJ

--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: jisrawi@physics.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Algeria Vs. the US hypocrisy -From NYT-
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:21:06 GMT



                     *********************************
                     *                               * 
                     * New York Times editorial page *
                     *         7/24/92               *
                     *                               *
                     *********************************

When Algeria's army staged a coup in January, heading off an anticipated 
Islamic electoral triumph, Washington, like other Western governments, winked.
 
Apologists for the coup warned of frightening consequences if Algeria's 
Islamic Salvation Front had been allowed to compete. Though the Front's 
official leadership had promised conciliation and economic reform, apologists 
argued that radicals would soon have swept aside these moderates. Further 
elections would have been banned, foreign policy radicalized, market reforms 
diluted, human rights of non-believers abused.
 
It is of course impossible to know what would have happened had democracy been
permitted to run its course. Given the record of Islamic rule in Iran and the 
Sudan, such fears can scarcely be dismissed.
 
But there is no need to speculate about what's happened since Algeria's coup.
Elections remain suspended; elected local councils have been disbanded. Human 
rights have been trampled; thousands of Islamic militants spent weeks in 
desert prison camps (does this mean it is no more the case?). 
The army's strong-arm tactics have embarrassed, even discredited Islamic
moderates. And the Salvation Front has been radicalized. Last month's
Algeria's provisional president was assassinated, perheaps by Islamis militants
perhaps by army dissidents. His successor has just appointed a Socialist
planner to run the government.
The new prime Minister is known for his vocal criticism of free-market 
economics and of the International Monetary Fund.
 
In sum, the coup has accomplished almost everything the West did not want to 
see happen. Yet Western democracies remain silent. The new Algerian regime 
still welcomes foreign investment. The Islamic militants it persecutes are 
unlikely to seek refuge in Europe, as the Westernized elements might have 
under Islamic rule.
 
The West's attitude is remarkably shortsighted. Algeria's Islamic majority 
won't go away, nor will it become more democracy-minded when its electoral 
majorities are treated with contempt. Meanwhile, political instability is 
increasing.
 
The surest way out is an early return to the ballot box, with all parties free
to compete. America's Algeria policy needs to be revisited.
From: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: News Source
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:40:32 GMT
Reply-To: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Assalamu Alaykum
The MSA at Ohio State University is currently distributing a News Digest
by electronic mail.
Right now news is being collected from access to UPI news, the selection is 
done by selecting only articles that have direct or indirect effect on 
Muslims (events in Muslim world, also Israeli activities even if not directly
related to Muslim World, Any announcement or action by any country that
affects Muslims). The selection is nevertheless based on collector's opinion.
Right now also we are collecting news from networks like:
MSA_net
Leb_Net (Lebanon Network)
Tunis_Net
Algeria_Net
Pakistan_Net

and newsgroups like:

soc.culture.arabic
soc.religion.islam
soc.culture.lebanon
soc.culture.pakistan
soc.culture.bangladesh
soc.culture.afghanistan
soc.sulture.bosna-herzg


Any other news is welcome but will be subject to the opinion of the manager
whether to include it or not. I am not that strict basically I include
everything but things that seem not interesting like an article on a singer
or dancer or what have you from our countries.

If you have any questions, suggestions or comments please do not hesitate to
contact me. I should mention that this is a collective effort and It is not
my work alone.

for further communication please mail:

msaosu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu


rached
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Dogs & Islam
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:40:07 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


In article <26876@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:

   Salam alekum.

   In some corner of Pakistan, there is a tradition that dogs are haram.
   I am interested in knowing the exact Hadith which support this.  Are
   there any Hadith which support this, or denouce this?

   I would be interested in any information.

   Salam Alekum,
   Basalat Ali Raja.

I can't give you information that all dogs are so, but there is at
least one hadith which says indirectly that SOME are. It is in Sunen-i
Tirmidhi and orders that black dogs should be killed as they are
"devils", a word used for bad behaviour. (It is used for some sort of
camels also).  However, I do not know whether this was ordered, and
may be, it was only for a timeperiod in Medina so.
--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: achmad@stud.cs.uit.no (achmad)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: question...?
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:30:55 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


 I have been wondering, can a muslim marrying a non muslim?  The
reason I ask about this is that I had a long discussion about this
with a friend of mine. Could anyone out there explain it to me?

Achmad


Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam