From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: WILL THE REAL MISOGYNISTS PLEASE STAND UP? Case 1.
Keywords: abortion, rape, sexual battery
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  3 Sep 92 00:36:10 GMT

In <vzwyq6m@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:

>nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>In my short time with talk.abortion, I have already seen how some
>>pro-choicers are ready to label someone a misogynist or woman-hater
>>simply because said person fits the "pro-life" label better than the
>>"pro-choice" label.  

>And many more wait to judge until they see actual evidence of it.
>In most cases, it isn't long in coming.  With you, I saw it when
>you said you might "allow" an abortion if the woman would otherwise
>be "better off dead".

A perfect illustrative example of the term "doctored evidence."

1.  I did not say "might", I said "would"

2.  I also said a condition which endangered (as in "endangered species")
the woman to the point of making such a condition likely.  Not certain.

3.  Worst of all, you leave out the statement that I would allow abortion
for any reason before the 6th week, and that the statement only referred
to abortions performed beyond this stage.

>  So if her quality of life was ONLY reduced by,
>say, 90%, it seems it would be perfectly hunky-dory with you if
>she gave up that 90% for some random (to you) fetus.

To avoid such subjective evaluations, I amended the criterion in a post
to Elizabeth Bartley, to read "render her a permanent invalid."

And by the way, I have yet to hear of any cases where a pregnancy 
threatened a woman with being a permanent invalid without equally 
threatening her life.

And, just to put an end to all these silly kidney analogies, I offer
to even allow an abortion beyond the 5th week if the difference 
between having the
abortion and not having one is at least as great as the permanent
loss of one kidney.  [And when I say permanent, I mean there is no
easy way of getting a kidney transplant to replace the one you lost.]

However, beyond viability, I would still insist that just as much care
be taken to preserve the life of the unborn child as would be with a
"wanted" child at the same stage of development.  And the abortion should
be postponed as long as possible if there is a good chance it can be
postponed to viability without incurring this one-kidney deficit.

>>	These people are barking up the wrong tree.  If they would only
>>open their eyes a bit, they would see evidence of misogyny from some 
>>of the very people they defend as caring about women.  

>	[allegations of abuse deleted]

The police believed these allegations to where they made an arrest.

>I hate to break it to you, Nyikos, but your little story here has
>absolutely NO bearing on whether YOUR views are misogynistic.  I
>believe the term is "red herring".

I am also aware of a French saying, "Qui s'excuse, s'accuse": he who
defends himself, accuses himself.  To post a message with the title,
"Don't call me a misogynist," as some might have done, would merely
have drawn others' attention to the fact that I was accused of misogyny.
To merely defend myself is also self-defeating in the long run, because
of another saying: "If enough shit is thrown at a wall, some of it is
bound to stick."

>>Via the pro-life grapevine, I was put in touch with a truly dedicated
>>pro-life feminist who said she would try to find out about subsequent
>>developments in the case.  [She moved to Ft. Lauderdale after the arrest
>>in question.]  What with Hurricane Andrew, the answers might take a 
>>while in coming.

>Ft. Lauderdale was virtually unaffected by the storm.  The worst
>damage was in southwest Dade County, in the neighborhood where I
>grew up and my mother (used to, until the storm) live.

Thanks, that's a relief.  However, the general lawlessness that seems
to have been rampant in Dade County probably also engages the time
and attention of Ft. Lauderdale law enforcement personnel, so that I'm
still not optimistic of getting early answers.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,misc.legal