HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Subject: Re: DO228 and other type-rating questions
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:01:30 GMT

In article <15137@suns7.crosfield.co.uk> adf@crosfield.co.uk (alex france) writes:

[ ... ]

> This is all about to change courtesy EEC normalisation to :-<
> 
>  - Multi-type ratings in manufacturer class (eg Beech, Piper, etc)
> much as Wolfgang describes for Germany.
> 
>  - Type ratings for turbo-prop and jet engines.
> 
>  - no automatic 'Certificate of Experience' on twins - annual flight
> tests come in.
> 
> However, in the articles I have seen they have not mentioned any
> change in the MTAW of 5700 Kg. Does this mean that soon all European
> PPL's will be allowed to fly an AN-2 as PIC?

All that holds true in Germany right now; to fly anything that has more
than 5.7 tons, I'd have to have a CPL *plus* taken the written for
the ATPL plus the type-rating stuff itself.
 
> Sorry, I don't know what's required for a DO228 type rating, but I'll
> have a look and see if its in CAP-53 (at home). I'm sure we are all
> intrigued to know how come Wolgang is looking for a Do228 type rating.
> Care to expand Wolfgang?

I might care to say that this was a purely hypothetical question; on
the other hand, there is a chance (very remote though) that I coold 
free-lance one of those things; to negotiate that matter I need
some knowledge about the procedure and cost for such a rating.
-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de
From: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Oshkosh VFR arrival closures.
Keywords: Oshkosh
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:18:51 GMT
Reply-To: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Organization: National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory

I flew from Lansing MI to Oshkosh the morning of August 4th.  We went
IFR because of the Michigan weather and I had made my reservation the
day before.  On the ATIS they said the field was closed for VFR arrivals
except for warbirds. 

Later I talked to a friend from the Chicago area who tried to fly in
that same day VFR (he had an IFR reservation) and they told him he
couldn't land without a reservation.  He said he had an IFR reservation,
but they said he needed a parking reservation.

When you make an IFR reservation to OSH do they reserve a parking spot
for you?  He arrived earlier than us but was turned back.  If so, it
would appear that if you make a reservation, you should use it.  The
weather that day was beatiful VFR so I don't think they closed it for
VFR arrivals on the account of weather that day.
	Just curious,
		John
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:50:08 GMT

In article <19844@leadsv.UUCP>, netnews@leadsv.UUCP (Leads Network News) writes:
...
> Like Geoff, I don't file for an IFR (Bay Area) departure unless the
> weather conditions warrant it.  ...

Boy, after last Tuesday, I can embrace this practice.  5:00 departure
from San Jose (that's a mistake in itself), its around 85 degrees on
the airport, probably about 110 in the plane.  I pick up my clearance
and taxi to the runup area where I sit for 20 minutes (getting two
ammendments to my clearance during the wait) before finally getting
into the air.  I can't say for sure that it would have been any
faster if I had filed VFR, but I think I am going to try to find out
next time.

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: partial power loss, speed
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:56:23 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany

In article <WD.92Aug12115137@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (myself) writes:

> L/D (lift/drag). As drag changes when the prop is windmilling
> (read: increases) instead of producing partial power, best glide
> with no power should be higher than with partial power.
                          ^^^^^^
Ooops, reading this equation - lower of course; though you want to
be higher in the pattern in that case :-)
-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kinyon@next3.corp.mot.com (John J. Kinyon)
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Reply-To: kinyon@next3.corp.mot.com
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:21:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.151636.11102@sdf.lonestar.org>  
rjohnson@sdf.lonestar.org (Robert C. Johnson) writes:
>  ... I guess what I'm asking
>  for here is some real world experience with TRSA's.  Is it as
>  simple as the AIM makes them seem?  If I want it, it's there, if
>  I don't, I don't have to do anything except fly along in an
>  uncontrolled (from the ground) bliss?  Any experiances would be
>  welcome!

	We've got one in Rockford, IL (that will become an ARSA Real Soon  
Now).  The rule of thumb I've heard (and used to no ill effect) is to  
treat them like an ARSA and you'll be more than covered.

>  P.S. Another dumb question: how do you pronounce "TRSA"??????  (Or do
>       you??)

terse-ah

My opinions are NOT the FAA's :-)
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: CAS vs IAS
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:52:25 GMT
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ

Indicated Air Speed (IAS) is read directly off the face of the ASI,
Calibrated Air Speed, or IAS corrected for sensor and indicator
placement/error is based on engineering data and mathematical models
concerning the operation of the pitot/static system.  True airspeed
(TAS) is CAS corrected for temperature & pressure.  (at least that
is what the red cessna book says...)
 
Bryan D. Boyle    | Opinions are my own, not Exxon's...
Senior Engineer   | Twisted Pair: 908 730 3338
Exxon Research and| Through the Air: Cherokee N7068W
Engineering Co.   | I fly because I can.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler)
Subject: Re: GLiding instruction
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.180417.13410@eco.twg.com>, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) writes...
> 
>In article <18AUG199210200746@vxcrna.cern.ch>, cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:
>|>LAst weekend, one of our instructors did a normal instructional flight,
>|>until a few feet from the ground.  The pupil, then suddenly pulled out the
>|>air brakes, and let the speed decay.   The instructor tried to put the brakes
>|>back in, but the pupil froze on the controls and the instructor was unable
>|>to over-ride the locked out air brakes.  A very heavy landing ensued, but
> lines deleted
>I'm told the solution is for the instructor to carry a large multicell
>flashlight like a MagLite. Mount it within easy reach of the instructor
>and place a placard on it (preferably in view of the student) reading,
>"In case of student freeze-up, remove flashlight and strike student
>vigorously."

And can you do this in the few seconds available to make a decision and act ?

==============================================================
|                                                            |
|        Mike Cohler -  preferred email address:             |
|                       MDC1@VAXA.YORK.AC.UK                 |
|                   ie  MDC1%VAXA.YORK.AC.UK@UKACRL.BITNET   |
|                                                            |
|        UK PPL and Glider Pilot                             |
|                                                            |
==============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: GLIDER: stall landings (Was: Transition Glider to Power)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:07:56 GMT

In article <luke.714391853@barney> luke@cs.city.ac.uk (Luke Whitaker) writes:
>In <cshotton-200892125451@oac2.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> cshotton@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Chuck Shotton) writes:
>
>>Unless you plan a very poor pattern in a glider, it's virtually impossible
>>to put a glider on the runway with the wing stalled. Most likely, the
>>spoilers are out, but the wing is still flying. Close the spoilers sometime
>>just after you touch down and watch what happens. See? You're flying the
>>glider on. 
>
>Just because closing the spoilers unstalls the wing doesn't imply that the
>wing isn't stalled while the spoilers are out. Spoilers will decrease lift as
>well as increasing drag. Hence closing the spoilers will increase lift which
>will unstall a wing that is only just stalled. (IMHO)
>

	Am I missing something here?  My understanding is that a wing stalls
when the angle of attack exceeds a critical value.  Deploying spoilers reduces
the lift produced by the wings resulting in an increased descent rate, but it
does not cause the wing to stall.  I don't think I have ever seen a glider 
flare on landing like power planes do; it's more of a rounding out to level 
flight.  Glider landings look (and feel) like the ship is being flown onto the 
runway with the descent rate controlled with the spoilers.  (I have never flown 
a glider that uses flaps instead of spoilers so perhaps they are different.)  
Unless I have completely missed something it seems to me that Chuck is correct: 
gliders don't do stall landings.

Regards,
tony
From: cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Verbal IFR procedures
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:40:15 GMT
Organization: University of Montana

Here's an anecdote with brings home the danger of accepting a verbal IFR
procedure.  It's a summary of a true story:

Tower: Orion XYZ, cleared for the VOR/DME bravo

Pilot: I don't have the approach plate

Tower: (reads instructions, and then says) track inbound on the 155 radial,
       descend to 8600

Pilot: Turn to 155, descend to 8600?

Tower: Affirmative, turn to 155, descend to 8600


Well, the pilot turned to 155, instead of 335, and crashed into a mountain.
As the story illustrates, visualizing complex instructions is tough, and the
danger is compounded when one considers that the person delivering the 
instructions might make a mistake.

There's no moral here.  I'm just pointing out something that one might
wish to consider, if one finds oneself in the "IFR flight from Hell."

Cap














-- 
Cap Smith                 Assistant Prof. of MIS           
cap@selway.umt.edu        University of Montana
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: FAQ, acronyms
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:57:42 GMT
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood, CA


I am going to start instruction in sailplanes this weekend, and other
than reading this group for a while, have not had much exposure to
flying.  In my reading, I am running across an unbelievable number of
acronyms (especially those with 3 letters) for which I have no
glossary.  Is there a FAQ anywhere that can illuminate these
inscrutable acronyms for me? 
(my immediate questions: what does FBO stand for? TCA?)

Regards--
--Rob

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Hayne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: stupid things I've done
Keywords: rec.aviation, netiquette, Never Again
Date: 20 Aug 92 07:37:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta



I'll bite on relating an "almost" stupid thing hoping that it'll
be just as good.

I went out to the Calgary Flying Club to take my parents for
their first ride with me.  I discovered that I wasn't current in
the eyes of the club.  So, I proceeded to take the Piper Warrior
out to the practise area for some airwork and then back to the
pattern for some "crash and bash".  I got almost all of my
training in Tucson (good sized ARSA with LONG runways of
11,000ft- density altitude, ya' know) and got very used to
"flying" down the runway in order to coast right up to the proper
taxiway.  Well, the runway I was using this day was quite a bit
shorter (3000) and I found myself coming up to the end of the
runway QUITE briskly.  I discovered that I am quite strong and
that airplane brakes are not too bad if you REALLY stand on them.

Made the turn off the runway onto the taxiway still going about
20mph.  I crossed the hold line, contacted ground as if "I meant
to do that" and picked up my parents.  Only trouble was that Dad
is an "old" pilot.  His only comment was - "runway a little short
today??"


-- 
Stephen C. Hayne, Assistant Professor, MIS, University of Calgary
    __!__         (403)220-7161        schayne@acs.ucalgary.ca
_____(_)_____     "I love to fly - my banker will verify."
From: czim@hume.cns.caltech.edu (Chris Ziomkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Need info from SJC natives
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:46:35 GMT
Organization: caltech

I need to fly VFR into SJC on Tuesday, and was wondering if someone could
give me an idea of when the cloud cover burns off in that area. Assuming
we continue the same weather pattern we've had over the past two weeks,
when can I reasonably expect to make it in?

Thanks in advance,

Chris.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
Subject: Re: Speaking of DUAT
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 15:40:11 GMT

In article <Aug.15.10.16.53.1992.13983@pilot.njin.net> ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:
>DUAT is just not good enough.  The teletype notams are good for
>runway/navaid out, but many of the Class II modems just don't come
>across that way. 

The NOTAM problem is certainly known to the FAA, for they have an R&D
contract with MITRE (and perhaps others) to create the next generation
NOTAM online creation/edit/dissemination system.  A fellow employee was
enticed back to MITRE from govt. ADP work to work on the NOTAM contract.
When will it produce a better system, and will the FAA be able to 
afford to field it?  Heckifiknow!

Dan Masys
masys@nlm.nih.gov


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: schinner@vcd.hp.com (Jim Schinnerer)
Subject: Re: I give up...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:31:16 GMT

I remember when I left the Bay area for Vancouver last February.
The clearance I received from Bay took me out over the ocean a ways.
Once I got into the TCA, I requested direct Sausalito and they gave
me a heading for direct Mendocino, thus keeping me over land for the
whole trip.

If I was anywhere else but under Bay TRACON, I probably wouldn't have
tried this.  They sure are nice.

---------------------------------------------------------
Jim Schinnerer  -  PP-ASEL-IA       |  Hewlett Packard
Mooney - 350X  -  "Buster"          |  Vancouver, WA
email - schinner@vcd.hp.com         |  (206) 944-3324
---------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Cherokee 6 vs. Archers/Warriors
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:37:57 PDT

Hello there,

I've accumulated about 50 hours over the last few months on Archers and
Warriors.

I'm now about to be checked out on a Cherkee 6-300.

How 'different' is to fly this plane compared to the other Cherokees mentioned
above?

Any comments will be appreciated.

Thanks,

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Keywords: Cherokee Models
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:02:34 GMT

In article <66392@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt9989a@prism.gatech.EDU (John Martin Chapman) writes:
>Today in Gwinett County, Georgia, there was a small plane crash involving a
>Cherokee 160.  1 person was killed and 4 were injured.  My question(s) is/are
>this.  I got my first 40 or so hours in a Cherokee 180 I think.  I know the
>more common Cherokee is the 140.  The one I trained in had 4 seats, and the 
>140 has four seats.  So  if I am remembering correctly, and a 160 is just a
>variant of the 140 (having 4 seats) isn't the fact that 5 people were in the
>plane probable cause for the crash? Or is a 160 the Cherokee 6?
>
>John

In actuality, the Cherokee 160 was one of the first models of the breed
introduced in the '61 timeframe, according to the Cherokee Pilots Assoc.
It had a 160hp O-320, 2-window side profile, and was rated for 2250 lb
TOW.  The Cherokee 140 was a variant of that model (in actuality, they
used a different prop which limited the rpm of the engine to 140 at
full throttle...), and the 180 was an O-360-A3A engined model introduced
in 1962.  The 160 was made (if my memory serves correctly-no
guarantees...flames to /dev/null) from '61 to '65(?)...they are all
PA28-1xx, the Cherokee 6 was a PA32 and the first version was a 260 hp
variant (stretched, slight increase in wingspan...) of the 180...
 
Of course, this will have to be verified, but my "official" sources
are at home...
 
Bryan D. Boyle     | Opinions are mine, not Exxon's...
Senior Engineer    | Twisted Pair: 908 730 3338
Exxon Research and | Through the Air: Cherokee N7068W
Engineering Co.    | I fly because I can...
From: rob@cats.ucsc.edu (99708000)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: That would never happen to me...BUT
Date: 14 Aug 92 06:36:57 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsco.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug10.191409.4269@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:

>Pipers have tabs.  Either fill the tank or use the tabs.  Cessnas don't have
>tabs.  Fill the tanks, and learn how the particular aircraft you fly consume
>fuel, the way _you_ fly them.  Then you can estimate fuel consumption and
>fuel remaining based on time.

>						Geoff

Whoa, wait a minute.  Cessnas don't have "tabs" like Pipers do, but many
of them have the equivalent--filler necks.
On my 210, it's 384 lbs to the "tabs", and 534 lbs topped.
-- 

-Rob Strand

   From Bitnet: rob@ucscvm  From Internet: rob@ucscvm.ucsc.edu    
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman)
Subject: Re: Flying to Oregon: Questions.
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:40:37 GMT

mvogel@sirius.UVic.CA (Mark  Vogel) writes:

>I am planning a trip to Eugene, Oregon or thereabouts from Victoria, B.C. to 
>fulfill the 300 nm x-cntry requirement of my commercial pilots license.

Let's see...  I just last night got back from a trip from Palo Alto to
Portland, Seattle, and (sans airplane; it sat on the ground in Seattle
having the nose strut, which had ruptured when the FBO was towing
the plane to parking, repaired) Vancouver, BC.

>The thought is to maybe clear customs in Portland and investigate a
>gigantic bookstore I hear resides in that city, then on south, possibly to
>Eugene or some suitably distant destination.  I would like to spend two nights
>in Oregon, preferably camping.

Oh, yeah, Powell's City of Books.  We were there.  We got to the bookstore
about 6pm, noted that it closed at 9pm, and said "well, 3 hours ought to be
plenty...".  Famous last words!  The place is _incredibly_ large; it looks
like, over the years, Powell's has taken over every store in a city block,
knocked out the walls between them, and turned it into one HUGE new and used
book store.  Really impressive!

>I'm looking for any wisdom out there on:  busyness/appropriateness of Portland
>International as a way into Portland ... friendly FBO's (free tiedowns? cheap
>gas?) ... transportation in Portland ... suitable airports near Eugene in
>terms of things to see and tolerance of camping there or nearby, a cool little
>town with or without a lake nearby would be nice, get the barnstorming angst 
>out of my system ... in lieu of camping, cheap hotels ... any landing fee 
>stress ... any other information about this area anyone would care to share.

Flightcraft is the FBO we used at Portland International, and we were
VERY impressed.  The place is amazingly plush, and they didn't look
down their noses at the beat up 172 we were flying.  Gas was $2.18/gal,
and tiedown was free with gas, or $5/night without.  They were quite
happy to shuttle us up the road about a mile to the airline terminal
where we rented a car; I'm sure getting a taxi or bus from there to
town would be no problem.

Don't know anything about customs at PDX.


-Brent
--
Brent Chapman                                   Great Circle Associates
Brent@GreatCircle.COM                           1057 West Dana Street
+1 415 962 0841                                 Mountain View, CA  94041
From: donegan@stanton.UUCP (Steven P. Donegan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: REVIEW of AIR COMBAT
Summary: Air Combat :-)
Date: 8 Aug 92 17:21:29 GMT
Organization: Stanton Public Domain Systems, Stanton, Ca.

In article <CKD.92Aug3075236@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
> Hunter> == Hunter Scales <hunter@oakhill.sps.mot.com> 
> 
>  Hunter> Do you remember where this was?  I could see blowing $500 on it.


Well, if you want a crack at this experience in September there is a conference
in Las Vegas where, if you register as a member of the conference, you can get
a 75$ break on the Air Combat ride. The conference is the Soldier of Fortune
Convention (yes - mercenaries and wantabees). There are usually other radical
flying items there as well, rides in a MIG, a supersonic trainer etc. Most of
the show is rather amusing - folk walking through casinos in cammy and carrying
full-auto toys are a sight to see (and watch the faces of the casino goers as
this spectacle passes by is fun also). Guns and ammo are on sale up to and
including tanks :-) The casino usually gets into the act and the pool-side
waitresses dress up in cammy short-shorts and halters :-) Really amusing - I
never pass up this opportunity for people watching. Several of my friends and
I intend to fly-in this year (short flight for us, only 300 NM or so).

There is also an Air Combat place near here in Fullerton that fly's Marchetti
singles out to the practice area between Catalina and Long Beach (where I
practice airwork) and it's a gas to see them dogfight while I'm doing stalls
etc... 

They get pretty radical - lots of aerobatics. Perhaps when I've recovered
from the costs of my flight training I'll go for a ride :-)

Enjoy...

-- 
Steven P. Donegan                     The opinions expressed here are mine
Senior Telecommunications Engineer    donegan@stanton.cts.com, stanton!donegan 
Information Services                  714-932-6055 voicemail
Western Digital Corporation           714-894-2246 uucp - nuucp no word
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com (Marty Anilane)
Subject: Re: DUATS question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com
Organization: GTE Government Systems, Federal Systems Division, Chantilly, VA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:48:19 GMT

>All non-pilot users must telnet to duats.wtp.contel.com (or 131.131.7.106)
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That should be duats.contel.com

----------------
 Marty Anilane, GTE Contel Federal Systems, P.O. Box 10814, Chantilly VA. 22021
 Internet: "system@gnd1.wtp.contel.com"    (703) 818-4413
----------------
From: dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What type of plane is a King Air Super 200?
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:03:45 GMT

In article <122140228@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn) writes:
> Mary Shafer writes:
> 
>> NASA has a King Air 200 and it operates on a 15,000 ft runway quite well.  
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Doesn't everyone???   I would think everyone except 747 and Space Shuttles
> would do quite well. ;-)

Seems to me that both those wouldn't have a problem... of course, the takeoff
roll on the shuttle might be a little long... :-)

- David McLeod
- dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation