From: linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Spirits vs. Animal Rights.  Was: Texas AR Conference
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:45:27 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.berkeley.edu

In article <BszILu.DIn@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>From article <16eeq0INN844@agate.berkeley.edu>, by linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan):
>> ... [ much demon-talk and god-talk deleted ]
>ml> For the last time, whether I believe in demons or not is not the 
>ml> point.  CAN YOU UNDERSTAND?  The point is I never told you this 
>ml> and you misrepresented what I told you in an lying effort to 
>ml> discredit me.  

>If you don't believe in demons, please say so, and I'll be happy
>to apologize.  


Apparantly you can not understand.  You either must have some sort of
mental block or you are just simply an idiot.  I'm sorry, I've tried to make
you understand that WHAT I believe in is not the issue but rather what you
CLAIM I told you I believe in.  You have not presented the proof that I 
ever told you I believe in goddesses, goblins, demons or ghosts.  I will
let this issue now rest with most critical thinkers concluding that you are
both a liar and an idiot.


>Alternatively, if you think it's logically possible to believe in the 
>literal truth of the bible while not believing in the existence 
>of "demons", I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd explain the how's
>and why's.  In such a case, I think it'd be obvious to everyone
>that one of us has a lot to learn about clear thinking.


Yeah, well it's not my job to explain anything to you Russell and I am
not inclined to do so.  

I think it is obvious to everyone that one of us has a hard time admitting
that they have lied.  :')


>rl> In pointing out that you believe in the literal truth of the 
>rl> bible, aren't you implying that you also believe in the existence 
>rl> of demons (aka goblins), not to mention a sizeable number of 
>rl> other spirit-forms?  


I don't imply.  I come out and speak my mind.  You should have known that
and probably did from our prior discussions but, I guess it is more conven-
ient for you to "interpret" what you think others are saying to suit your
position.  Crafty, sneaky and dishonest.


>ml> Is your interpretation of what you call "implying" the same thing 
>ml> as you claiming I SAID THESE THINGS to you?  NO!  The words 
>ml> demons, goblins, ghosts or goddesses have NEVER crossed my lips 
>ml> (or fingertips) when corresponding with you.  

>I believe they have crossed your lips, Mike, although I have 
>neither the time nor inclination to root through several months 
>of backup tapes for messages that may have been deleted prior to 
>the backup capture.  Again, if you don't believe in "spirits", why not
>just say so instead of quibbling about the verbatim text of 
>statements you've made over a period of many months? 


You are boring, repetative and caught in a lie.  "I don't have time Mike
to prove to you that you said what I claimed you did.  Please assume that
you did indeed say these things since I don't have time or the proof that
you did and that would make me a liar".  


>ml> I believe in what I believe in.  I am not obligated to disclose 
>ml> my entire religious beliefs to you.  

>I would agree with you _if_ your religious beliefs were a private 
>matter, but to the extent that someone like yourself might say that 
>killing witch's or killing homosexuals or killing animals is ok 
>by god ("ok bi-got") then it doesn't make sense for him to turn 
>around and pretend that his beliefs are a private matter.  Such 
>beliefs are public in every sense of the word, since they 
>radically affect other beings.  


I owe you nothing Russell.  I need not expose my beliefs to an arrogant 
person such as yourself for ridicule.  Go away.


>Suit yourself.  I'm sure that other readers have a pretty good 
>idea of your position.  Unfortunately, they may not fully realize 
>how the ideas that you've set forth have affected (infected) 
>societal distinctions between good actions and bad actions.  


You have nothing to contribute to me other than arrogance, lies and dis-
honesty.  Continue worshipping your almighty empirical facts and believing
that your definition of what's right and wrong and what life form deserves
top live or not are the absolutes of the world.  You are not alone Russell,
there's one born every minute.  So they say.


>Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000