HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: GP racing in the '30s was Re: Car identification request
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:31:07 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Dave White writes:

>>>>A friend of mine has a photograph of Nuvolari at the Nurembergring
>>>>taken in 1938. So far he's been unable to identify the make/model
>>>>of the car being driven. The car's number is 22 and it is thought
>
>>If you're even slightly interested in GP racing in the mid-to-late
>>thirties, you have got to read Chris Nixon's "Racing with the Silver

>and if you are really interested in seeing these cars race today then
>come over to England and go to a meeting of the Vintage Sports car club
>where it is always possible to see the lesser Grand Prix cars such as
>Alfa, Maserati, Bugatti, ERA and Alta racing against one another and 
>occasionaly if you are lucky an Auto Union or Mercedes.

We don't have too bad of an event in the USA.  Actually, we might have
others that I'm not aware of, but the Monterey Historics held every August
since '74 isn't too shabby.  Lets see, last August we had Fangio putting
on demostration laps with his old Alfa Romeo and Mercedes F1 racers.  That
old man can still hussle a race car around a track.  Denny Hulme was there
in I forget what.  Jack Brabham had an old Cooper F1 racer which I was
following behind in the pits when he stalled it :-).  Phil Hill is almost
always there.  Several years back, Jim Hall had several of his old Chaparrals
I think they were the 2C, 2D, and 2F.  I don't remember if Jackie Stewart was 
there last year, but he has been there numerous times in the past.  One year, 
he gave the Ford IMSA racer (the front engined one) a debut demonstration.  
I think we were treated to the Auto Union back when Porsche was the featured
marque.  Anyway, if anyone is interested its coming up in just a few weeks, 
August 21-23rd.  This year the featured marque is Jaguar.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Mario and Little Al go Sea-Dooing (was Re: Whats Mario's excuse?)
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:58:52 GMT


In article <71174782718822@c00009-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu>,
jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
|>
|>From the July IndyCar Racing "Pit Talk":
|>
|>"Al Unser Jr. stopped by the Newman/Haas motorcoach in Detroit to see how
|>the recovery was going.  'We are still going "Sea-Dooing" after New
|>Hampshire, aren't we?' Unser Jr. asked.  'Absolutely,' replied Mario."
|>
|>What the heck is "Sea-Dooing"?

Sea-Doo is a brand of jet ski, from the folks who do the Ski-Doo snowmobiles.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel J Naze)
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
  Bunch of stuff deleted
   Not so.  Tony Southgate, formerly of TWR racing, did the design of the
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:40:28 GMT

Dan Naze











Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 06:08:10 GMT


In a previous article, naze@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel J Naze) says:

> What I said was that the Toyota TS010 SWC car was designed by Tony Southgate,
>not John Barnard.  Southgate is formerly of TWR racing.  Barnard and I believe
>Steve Nichols designed the Ferrari 642 and 643 F1 cars.  Nichols stayed with
>Ferrari to design the F92A, but has since left to join the '93 Sauber F1 team.

Then while working on the 643, Barnard must have designed the monocoque, while
Nichols screwed up the suspension.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: Re: Mansell, Michael, . . . (German GP spoilers)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:54:39 GMT


In a previous article, miata@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (steve.bruun) says:

>Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  I just *really* detest Mikey (and his
>daddy to boot; how long before one of them kills somebody?).
>

On a similar note, how long before Alesi kills himself?
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ulrich@canberra (Nathan Ulrich)
Subject: Re: Patrese at Hockenheim (why why why)
Reply-To: ulrich@canberra.whoi.edu
Organization: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:58:24 GMT

Michael Hui writes
> It escapes me why Patresse tried the same passing trick
> Schumacher tried and failed. He should have drawn the car
> in front onto the inside of the curve by pretending to
> pass on the inside, and then swerve out onto the clean
> racing line just after onset of braking. The car in front
> will be forced to brake heavily on the dirty surface.

You make it sound so easy.  Maybe Patrese (most experienced driver in F1) could  
benefit from your coaching.

What you're suggesting wouldn't work for a couple of reasons.  First, you would  
have to draw Senna off-line before the turn-in point, which means that you  
would have to outbrake him significantly (enough to draw close to even, because  
Senna wouldn't change his line unless he had to).  It didn't look to me like  
the Williams cars were able to outbrake the McLarens, or at least Senna's  
McLaren--you did notice Mansell going off the track when he tried to outbrake  
Senna into the Ost corner.

Second, while Patrese is at the absolute limit of the car's grip under  
threshold braking, you suggest that you he _increase_ his braking to fall back  
behind Senna and then "swerve" back on-line, thereby spinning the car.  Making  
the car ballistic is not an effective passing technique. :-)

--
Nathan Ulrich
Deep Submergence Laboratory
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
ulrich@canberra.whoi.edu
From: garr@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (guido.a.rijo)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Whats Mario's excuse this time?
Keywords: pit lane, Michael
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:58:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Jul23.135802.28671
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

>        Hey Terry, people and lives are at stake when racing gets above
>30 miles an hour.  It's people like you, and your approach to racing that
>gets people hurt.  Michael and his currently inept father, have been in
>more problems over the years, that are their own fault, then anybody else.
>If your race cars and you feel comfortable when somebody does something
>stupid next to you, and you say to yourself, "this is balls to the walls
>racing no problem" then you might not be around to see to many more
>races.  If you don't race then I wont take any of your comments.
>
>dougw

Clam down Dougw,
Do you think Rahal's crew would have send him out if
it was Ted Prapas coming up to speed?. I guess their goal was, if we
cannot catch him on the track, we'll get him in the pits. Well it
did not work. I tapped the race, and it is obvious that Rahal was VERY
WIDE coming out of his pit. If you want a copy of the tape, I'll be
glad to send it to you.  Whether you like or not Michael is terrific
driver, maybe the fastest driver in CART today. Just look at the first
lap of The Toronto race, it cannot get any better than that. 

Guido Rijo
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Thoughts on German GP
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:24:27 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <199207272231.AA18789@ashley.cs.widener.edu> dxandy@cs.widener.edu (Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS) writes:
>
>   I heard that Senna *has* signed for Ferrari.  I think this is a big
> mistake.  McLaren is on the verge of getting their chassis together.
> Their design philosophy has always been conservative and has focused
> on reliability rather than innovation.  Williams philosophy seems to
> be the opposite, but this season they have formula well and truly
> solved.
> 
>   I don't see Ferrari suddenly producing a championship winning car
> next season, but I can see McLaren pulling up their socks and getting
> on terms with the Williams.

Assuming for the moment that Senna has signed for Ferrari, perhaps Senna
thinks that the loss of Honda engines is going to leave McLaren out in
the wilderness for at least an additional season.  Unless they could have
the Renault, can you expect them to be a genuine front runner right out
the gate in '93?

A more interesting speculation is, could Senna have a Williams seat if
he wanted it?  

Barring Williams, what does that leave Senna as his best option for '93?
If he has in fact chosen Ferrari, he must be betting on the Montezemolo/
Lauda/Barnard combination to pull things together.

If the tire width reduction really comes to pass, we're going to see
chaos unique even by F1 standards.  We can, as usual, be certain that the
rich will only get richer, as they have the resources to explore the new
envelope more quickly than the have-nots.  But, among the better-financed
teams there will be a lot of room for surprises as the early races of '93
show which solutions really work best.

My money would be on Williams' suspension and traction control giving them
the edge, but Barnard knows more about all of that then any of us will ever
live to know.  With the resources of Ferrari/FIAT to draw on, and major
changes coming to possibly disrupt Williams present well-oiled domination,
he could pull something out of the hat.  I'm sure Senna has given this a
LOT of thought, and I would assume he has access to a lot of information
we don't.  Wouldn't you?

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: F1 Trivia : Best newcomer in F1 ??
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:47:26 GMT

In article <182831@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com
(Dan Jones) writes:
|> Dave Burden writes:
|> >Here are the drivers who have scored 30+ points in their first season:

[ list deleted ]

|> You could probably add Jody Scheckter to this list too.  In '72 he drove one
|> race for McLaren, in '73 drove in 5 selected races for McLaren, and in '74
|> had his first full season, driving for Tyrrell.  He scored 45 points in '74
|> to finish 3rd in the World Championship.

At any rate, Scheckter's debut in F1 was certainly amazing.  His first
GP was the 1972 US GP at the Glen where he qualified the 3rd McLaren M19
close to the front (7th spot?) but retired.  In his second GP (France
1973 at Le Castellet) he led the race in his McLaren M23 from the start
all the way until about the half-way mark.  At this point, reigning world
champion Emerson Fittipaldi in his Lotus 72 -- err, JPS -- suffered from
a severe case of brain fade when he dived inside Scheckter's McLaren
in the sharp right-hander which leads to the pit straight.  Scheckter's
right rear wheel rode over Emmo's left front wheel, lifting the M23 into
the air and retirement ...  (I don't remember who won that race, though.)
And two weeks later at Silverstone, Scheckter lost his M23 in a big
way at Woodcote in lap 1, causing a major pile up and the race being
red flagged.  Those were the Good Old Days ;-)

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dudley.chi@xerox.com (Tim Dudley)
Subject: Norwegians in Formula 1 ?
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic, rec.autos.sport
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:33:28 GMT

This post came out in rec.autos.sport, and caused me to wonder a couple
of things.  (This is assuming that Scandia Motorsports and Norwegian
Cruise Lines have some Nordic connection other than just the names.):

>Al Unser Jr. will drive one of Tom Milner's '91 Chevrolet
>Intrepid GTPs at Portland this coming weekend.
>
>The car will be prepped by Scandia Motorsports in Redmond,
>Washington and is sponsored by Scandia, Norwegian Cruise
>Lines and General Rent a Car. 

This is the second time in the last few weeks that I've seen a Norwegian 
connection involved in sponsorship (the other one being Norsk Hydro). 
Presumably, the Portland sponsorship is local, but it raises an interesting
question.  With Al Unser Jr. almost certainly moving to F1, does he have,
or is he going for, a Norwegian  sponsor?  If, so, why (from the sponsor's 
point of view)? Is there any interest in Formula 1 in Norway?  

I never thought of this before, but with the Swedes producing drivers
like Ronnie Peterson, and the Finns producing drivers like Keke Rosberg,
how come the Norwegians haven't ever had a driver in F1?  (Or have
they?)

Tim
From: perryd@Software.Mitel.COM (Dave Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Ghost of Can/Am?
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:50:47 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

I thought Can/Am was dead - haven't heard anything about it for at least
5 years.  I thought I heard it  mentioned on tv (TNN? TSN?) while
I was channel flipping the other day. So - is it dead or what?

Dave

-- 
Dave Perry                     | Opinions expressed here are mine
ve3ifb@ve3jf.#eon.on.can.noam  | and are not necessarily those of
perryd@software.mitel.com      | Mitel Corporation.
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Mansell under pressure (was Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:27:05 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <!6lm7ap.esprit@netcom.com> esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:

>As far as behavior under pressure, what about Mansell's move at the Ostkurve
>chicane? What about his move at Canada?  Sorry, but Mansell has a history of
>making mistakes under pressure.

It does seem that way, at least under specific circumstances. For instance,
in Canada and Germany, he was in a faster car stuck behind someone and
made mistakes. At Monaco, he was in the same place and didn't. He seems
to be very good at responding to a chase - if he is a long way behind
with a chance of catching up, then he probably will. As to being a long
way in front with a lead being whittled away, I can't recall any instances,
although at Hockenheim the final margin was only about 5 sec.

It is interesting how different sorts of pressure cause such differences in
behaviour.

regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: German Grand Prix showing time on ESPN?
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 00:30:41 GMT


Does anyone know what time the race will be broadcast on ESPN?
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Subject: Re: F1: Technology-limiting rules
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:04:08 GMT

>I think that F1 is more than just 'racing' per se.  It is a technology
>formula in which specific mechanical strictures give way to broader
>guidelines...it is a formula in which the TEAMS are competing to develop
>better machines with the same fierce passion as the drivers competing to win
>races. 

	stuff deleted ........

>Because of this, I feel technologically limiting the cars to make them more
>equal, will in the end be more harmful to F1.  It will reduce the teams,
>strip them of their indentities and their heritage...for there will be no
>NEED for their heritage!   Indeed, what purpose does the legend of Ferrari or
>Lamborghini serve if they must ultimately build the same engine?  What point
>is there to the mythic handling  of a Lotus if all teams must have the same
>chassis?

But all FISA is trying to do is make the cars slower and other  reasons which 
I will not go into.  Regardless, the idea of engineering design and development
being the same from team to team is a bit ridiculous.  If your statement is
correct, why do we have V8, V10, and V12 engines?  Along the same lines, why
do the noses of the F1 cars differ so much? 

Rules are set for specific reasons.  How teams/designers/engine makers design
around these rules is and has always been part of F1.  It is this creativity
which produces the variety of of designs and engines we currently, and will
always, see in F1.  This creativity is what makes a certain F1 team what they
are......  The most obvious example of this is the current Williams chassis with
re-active (active) suspension, at least in actual races.  Another good example
is the high nose Tryell's, which were seen 2-3 years ago.

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Ferrari and Lotus (Re: Boo Boo Senna)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:09:08 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby) writes:

> ... The Lotus 102/107 must be the only GM cars that are powered
> by Ford.
Just a small detail, but I think that the Lotus F1 effort is a completely
separate entity from the Lotus car Co. owned by GM. So it's not really a
"GM car".


> Lotus suffered many years because they did not have a good
> motor. The same can be said for Tyrrell and now Jordon.
As opposed to the Tyrrell and Jordan teams, Lotus did not a have a good car
(chassis) either.

> Jonathan Swaby

toufic
            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez@cesl.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University, NJ
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker)
Subject: Re: Wreck on ESPN Saturday Night
Originator: deanb@pecan10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:06:27 CDT


In article <BrqoB9.GJz@acsu.buffalo.edu>, trljim@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (JIM SONNENMEIER) writes:
> In article <3399@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) writes...
> > 
> >   The broadcast was of miget races at Indianapolis Raceway Park.  The
> >accident was so horrifying that ESPN refused to show the replay.
> 
> I saw a replay on ESPN Sunday night, you`re right horrorfying!!! ... never 
> seen anything like it the guy floppin around like a rag doll .. anyway
> all they said that he was in serious but stable condition ... that was 
> three days ago .. I hope it is still true.

I usually watch SNT, but I missed it this week. Without getting too graphic, 
what was different about this crash from every other midget roll-over. Did
this guy fall out of the car or something? Did the seat belts or roll cage
fail? Try to keep this non-graphic, just give me an idea what happened.

-Dean
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Dean Barker				Cray Research, Inc.
deanb@cray.com				655F Lone Oak Drive
(612) 683-5414				Eagan, MN 55121
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Subject: Re: Misc. Weekend Ramblings
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:20:10 GMT


In article <1992Jul20.235637.19355@ncube.com>,
bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
|>
|>In article <1992Jul20.232640.8750@rdg.dec.com>
|>winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
|>>Maybe use the brakes?  Maybe travel at a safe speed in pit lane like he's
|>>supposed to?  We're just lucky that nobody on the track was taking a line
|>
|>Supposed to??  Last time I looked, CART does not impose speed limits on
|>pit lane ala NASCAR.  I know, I know, common sense says ..........

Yes, supposed to.  Drivers are supposed to travel at safe speeds in pit lane,
and are supposed to have enough maturity of judgement to do that without the
need for a speed limit to be explicitly spelled out in the rules.

|>So, should CART adopt a pit lane speed rule??

I didn't say or suggest that.  If the rules are enforced correctly, it should
not be necessary.  For example, in this case, Michael should have been
assessed a stop-and-go for crossing the yellow line at pit exit.  That would
have been appropriate punishment for having pushed his luck a little too far
with high pit lane travel speeds.

|>Did one of Rahal's crew give him the signal to go without looking to
|>see if the lane was clear?

A possiblity.  Maybe that's why CART chose not to assess a penalty.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:38:03 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Jul27.174414.10884@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com
(Paul S. Winalski) says:

>In article <1992Jul27.000949.24693@cc.uow.edu.au>,
>ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:
>|>

>|>See how the Williams drivers behaved under pressure ?

>DriverS??  Mansell ran away with the race and Senna never even got close to
>him.  We never got to see how Mansell behaved under pressure because he
>never was under any.
I missed the beginning, but what I saw was a Mansell in 3rd place. as for
Mansell under pressure how 'bout Canada. Don't get me wrong I am a
Mansell fan, but I he f&*ked up. Trying to hard to get by. As for
Patrese , he made a mistake that only hurt him. No one will contend
with Williams for the constructors title. In my opinion he has made it
a little harder to find a ride next year. I like his agressiveness. That
is one thing that distinguished him from Mansell last year. Patrese
had more balls.

Jonathan Swaby
From: leres@ace.ee.lbl.gov (Craig Leres)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: why no incar from Davey's wreck?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 23:37:56 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: leres@ee.lbl.gov (ucbvax!leres for uucp weenies)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.6

I finally put together what's been bothering me about Davey's wreck.
Since he had one of the incar cameras, how come we never got to see his
wild ride from the inside? From past telecasts, I know that they always
roll video tape for each car in case something happens. It seems like
even if the camera that was "on" got trashed on the first flip, we
could at least see him get sideways. Maybe they were changing tapes...

		Craig
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport