HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Real-life rulebook trivia
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:43:31 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes:

|In article <GRABINER.92Sep13171726@zariski.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
|>
|>There is a runner on first base with nobody out.  He goes with the
|>pitch, and the batter hits a drive to deep left-center.  The runner has
|>already rounded second when the center fielder makes a running catch.
|>The ball is thrown to the second baseman, who relays it to the
|>shortstop, with the runner still between second and third.  The
|>shortstop steps on second base and then throws to the third baseman, who
|>tags the runner.  Who gets the putout?
|>
|>Answer...
|>A runner forced to return while the ball is in play must touch all bases
|          ^^^^^^
|>in reverse order; thus, he is required to touch second.  Since he left
|                               ^^^^^^^^
|>second base before the catch, he is out when the shortstop tags the
|>base; the third baseman's tag is irrelevant.

|Gee, I sure doubt this.  I score this 8-4-6-5.

|I see nothing in the rulebook that would allow an appeal at second base
|on this play (presuming that the runner hadn't missed the base as he
|rounded it).

It's arguable.  Try rule 7.10:

	Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --

	[...]

	(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base,
	    he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base,
	    is tagged.

and rule 7.02:

	In advancing, a runner shall touch first, second, third and base
	in order.  If forced to return, he shall retouch all bases in
	reverse order, unless the ball is dead [...]

At the time that the second baseman is holding the ball, second base
constitutes a "missed base".  The runner *must* touch both second and
first base before he or either base is tagged in order to be safe.

A definition of "missed base" would probably help.  It is not intuitively
obvious that the bases touched by a runner become missed bases in the event
that the ball is caught.  But consider the situation where a runner goes
from first to third without touching second.  He isn't simply called "out"
for violating rule 7.02; the defensive team must make an appeal at second.
The same logic applies in regard to the runner having to retrace his steps.
--
Tony Nardo,		   INET: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu, trn@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
 Johns Hopkins Univ./APL   UUCP: {backbone!}mimsy!aplcomm!trn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Subject: Juan Gonzalez vs. Griffey Jr. (Who'll have the better career) 
Keywords: Gozalez Juan homeruns
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:44:24 GMT

  The thing really about Juan Gonzalez that someone mentioned is that despite
his massive power at an incredibly young age there still remains some LARGE
weaknesses in the game. If you compare Gonzalez to Griffey Jr. (who are the same
age I believe; just babies at 22 years old (but still older than me!)) you can
see how Griffey Jr. is a much more complete player than Juan Gonzalez. Let's
look at Gonzalezes strengths vs. Griffey's strengths:

Speed: Griffey, but Bill James likes to point out that Griff ain't as fast as
       reported. I think this is what will push Gozalez out of CF.
Arm  : Griffey, I think but I haven't been exposed to many games
Range: Griffey by reports and Gold Glove voting although his PO and DA reflect
       a below average range. Once again can anyone give better opinions?
Defense: Overall, by reputation Griffey.
BAtting Average: Griffey by a huge landslide.
OBP : Griffey's OBP is Hall Of Famish, Gonzalez's is Fettucini Alfredoish.
Power : Gonzalez has bigger pop, but it's closer than people think. Griffey
     has a lot of HR this year and missed time with an injury.
Durability: Too early to tell.

  I think it's obvious to anyone that Griffey at this stage in his career is a
MUCH better player than Gonzalez. The only reason I think Gonzalez could have
a better career is that he has the capability to pop 50+ HR a year (I don't 
think Griffey can do it) while stregthening the other parts of his offensive
game. It seems right now that Griffey can improve a little bit, but Juan
Gonzalez can improve ALOT. And if Gonzalez can raise the level of his OBP then
he may challenge Griffey.

						Gord Niguma
						(fav player: John Olerud)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs Make-Up Game Scheduled?
From: f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:56:54 MST
Distribution: na,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67700241

In article <1992Sep4.190356.8801@gtephx.UUCP>, bentzr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard S. Bentz) writes:
> Through 9/3/92, the Cubs have played 132 games.  The published schedule
> shows that there are only 29 more games, i.e., 4 3-game and 2 2-game
> series at home, and 3 3-game and 2 2-game series away.  Following the
> 3-game San Diego series (at home), the Cubs finish the season playing
> home and away series with each of their eastern division opponents.
> This only adds up to 161 games (132 + 29).
>
> I presume that the missing game was postponed due to inclement weather. 
> Is it against a divisional opponent?  If so, when is the double-header
> going to be played?
> 
> If it's against a team from the western division, then they would
> undoubtedly play the game on Monday, 10/5/92, but only if it could
> affect the determination of the divisional winner(s).

Let me see if I can explain.  The Cubs (and other teams) have often
finished the season playing only 160 or 161 games, because (a) in-
clement weather at the end of a season series shortened the series, and
(b) not making it up didn't affect the standings of the division winners.
Whether or not the missing game was against a divisional rival, it wouldn't
be made up unless it mattered.

I found this out when I looked over a videotape of the Cubs in late
1986.  The Cubs played the Cards in a season-ending doubleheader, but the
weather was miserable and the sky was dark, so only the 1st game got
played.  Both teams finished with 160 or 161 games played.

BTW, I got to see a 21-year-old Greg Maddux with black shaggy hair
flopping over his ears, Charles Bronson mustache....ah, youth.
And he threw bad, too.  Little did I know he'd end up as a six-
million-dollar man, at least.)
-- 
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how do you spell relief?"
f67700241@ccit.arizona.edu               Dan: "R-O-L-A-I-D-S-E."

"[George Bush is] the most ruthless white man in the history of the planet."
	-- Richard Ben Cramer, author of _What It Takes_
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dodgers Beat Padres in 11
Date: 15 Sep 1992 02:20:19 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Kevin Gross had a very rocky start in San Diego, but even
though he was hit very hard and very often in the first
few innings, the Padres only scored 3 runs.  I kept thinking
that the Dodgers would come back because they were so
lucky the score was only 3-1 and not 8-1 at that point in the game.

Sure enough, the Dodgers did come back and took a 4-3 lead on
Mike Scioscio's two run homer in the 7th.  Meanwhile, Gross
had settled down, giving up just 1 hit after the 4th inning.
But thanks to an error by Harris, the Padres tied the score
in the bottom of the 7th and the game went into extra innings.

Jim Gott came on and pitched two strong innings for the Dodgers,
and in the top of the 11th the Dodgers pushed across the winning
run on a single by Scioscia.  Jay Howell came on in the
bottom of the 11th and promptly gave up two singles to lead off
the inning.  In came Roger McDowell to do the job Howell was
given.  McDowell was brilliant (for a change) getting the
first batter he faced to pop up a bunt attempt for the first out, then getting the next Padre batter to hit into a game ending double play!  Amazing
that Offerman didn't blow that chance :-)

						Dodger
From: dittrich@sal-sun80.usc.edu (Matt Dittrich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??
Date: 8 Sep 1992 17:16:14 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun80.usc.edu


I find it curious that no one has mentioned Jose Cruz, the ex-Astro LF.

"What you looking at, monkey-face?"  :)
-- 
                                                               __
Matt Dittrich    | "Well the god I believe in        |        /  `
dittrich@usc.edu |      isn't short on cash, Mister" |   GO  |  UBS
                 |       -Bono on televangelists     |        \__,
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:26987 soc.culture.japan:7874 fj.rec.baseball:1707
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.japan,fj.rec.baseball
Subject: Japan Central League
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:56:13 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo

Japan Central League Standing ( Through games on Wednesday September 9th)
                         W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Yakult Swallows         58  50   0  .537    --
Yomiuri Giants          60  53   0  .531    0.5
Hanshin Tigers          57  52   1  .523    1.5
Hiroshima Carp          56  54   0  .509    3.0
Taiyo Whales            54  59   1  .478    6.5
Chunichi Dragons        47  64   0  .423   12.5

-----------------

 Alas, Yakult Swallows renewed the record of their lost games, losing four 
games in succession.
  Yakult Swallows lost the game to Chunichi Dragons by a score of 9 to 6 
Wednesday night at Nagoya Stadium while Taiyo Whales beat hateful Yomiuri
Giants by a score of 9 to 8 at the Tokyo Dome.

------ Hiroshi
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ Hiroshi Yajima, 
  / | /     /       /    NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories,
_/  _/    _/      _/     9 - 11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,
                         Tokyo, 180 Japan,  E-MAIL: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
                         TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254
From: jwc@netxcom.netx.com (Jeff Comer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blue Jays - Cut in half
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:13:26 GMT
Organization: The Chaos Bobs

mckinney@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Patrick Mckinney) writes:
> WE, THE FANS OF THE ORIOLES OF BALTIMORE, ARE WATCHING WHAT IS BEING
> KNOWN AS THE ANNUAL MIGRATION SOUTH OF THE BLUE JAYS. THEY ARE
> ABOUT TO LOSE POSSESSION OF FIRST PLACE; WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE NOW CALLING
> THE "CANADIAN CHOKE"....

Now, as pennance for your tempting the fates by woofing before it's time,
you are condemned to endlessly watch replays of the Blue Jays/Orioles
season-ending series of 1989. You may commute your sentence by withdrawing
the above statement, or by heaping lavish praise at the feet of Cito
Gaston, David Cone, Juan Guzman, or Joe Carter.


In article <92247.135642DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>To counteract the negative effect of your woofing I wish to make the
>following comment, which I hope all Oriole fans will ditto:
>
>WE, THE FANS OF THE BALTIMORE ORIOLES, ARE ENJOYING THE FINE PENNANT
>RACE IN THE AL EAST BETWEEN THE ORIOLES, JAYS, AND BREWERS.  TRULY WE
>ARE BLESSED TO WITNESS THE TALENTED PLAY OF ALL THREE SQUADS.  MAY THE
>BEST TEAM WIN.

ditto.

-JC
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 01:21:16 GMT

In article <BuE1y4.7Dn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:
>
>I agree with a lot of this.  Mr. Huckabay has done worse, though.  I
>remember the time that he changed his name file to my name.
>In short, he used my name to post annoying articles telling everyone
>to go to **** ,etc.  This damaged my reputation unfairly.
>If you've got a problem - I suggest mailing the root@madrone.ucdavis
>or something like that.  He's the source of a lot of name-calling around
>this network.

And here I thought Gary was funny. My take on this is 
that if your reputation can be damaged by a couple of 
posts in rec.sport.baseball, you've got worse problems 
than a damaged reputation. And if you want to go tell
the teacher on little Gary whenever he hurts your 
feelings, well all I can say is "sticks and stones...".

Really. What's the big deal here? If Gary can amuse
thousands of us at the expense of a little hurt
feelings on the part of one of us, in an impersonal
medium like the net where being insulted really has
no affect on one's real life, I say he should go right
ahead.

I hereby give Gary Huckabay permission to make fun of
me any way he wants to in this forum. Maybe I should 
add that to my .sig.

And if Gary does anything here that ever really hurts 
anybody, I'll be the first to write to his sysadmin
to have his net privileges pulled.



-- 
Dave Eisen    dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU   Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
      There's something in my library to offend everybody.
        --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Ripken Watch Replaces Galarraga Watch
Organization: NSSL
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:35:13 GMT

Well, it's September and that means different things for 
different people-back to classes, high school football, the
pennant races, etc.  For the aficionado of days off, however,
there's one big concern.  How's Cal Ripken doing this month?
As a result, coupled with Joe Torre's sudden disinterest in 
playing Andres Galarraga, my .signature is replacing the 
Andres Galarraga Watch with the September Cal Ripken Assessment
of Performance (SCRAP).  Fear not, loyal Andres viewers, you
will be kept informed of major developments (e.g., hits) from
Le Grande Chat.  As a fond farewell to the old .sig, we present
Andres's numbers up-to-date:

Andres Galarraga (Through 9 September)  .241 BA  .373 SLG  .278 OBA
27 H from .300  5 H from .250  8 HBP  9 BB    

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Cal Ripken   April-August   .249 BA  .355 SLG  .329 OBA
Cal Ripken (1 Sep.- 9 Sep.) .152 BA  .182 SLG  .222 OBA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for LFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 17:38:04 GMT

(Caveat: the NL average is a lot lower than the AL average; as a result, the
NL LFs might be overvalued somewhat and the AL LFs undervalued.)

NATIONAL LEAGUE			RC/27	"VALUE"
Barry Bonds, Pittsburgh		11.38	6.49	; Sheffield can't touch this
Bip Roberts, Cincinnati		6.07	0.81
Moises Alou, Montreal		5.83	0.97	; or about 3 times of Karros
Bernard Gilkey, St. Louis	5.18	0.80
Daryl Boston, New York		5.18	0.53
Ron Gant, Atlanta		4.77	0.92
NL AVERAGE			4.59
Kevin Bass, New York		4.58	0.43
Mariano Duncan, Philadelphia	4.44	0.31
Eric Davis, Los Angeles		4.35	0.37
Luis Gonzalez, Houston		4.26	0.38
Jerald Clark, San Diego		4.24	0.45
Derrick May, Chicago		4.22	0.25

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Rickey Henderson, Oakland	8.70	2.73
Shane Mack, Minnesota		7.43	2.79
Brady Anderson, Baltimore	7.27	2.71
Candy Maldonado, Toronto	6.66	1.79
Tim Raines, Chicago		5.87	1.14
Kevin McReynolds, Kansas City	5.87	0.97
Kevin Mitchell, Seattle		5.85	0.72
Kevin Reimer, Texas		5.80	0.99
AL AVERAGE			5.37
Mel Hall, New York		5.22	0.55
Luis Polonia, California	4.67	0.18
Dan Gladden, Detroit		4.48	0.06
Billy Hatcher, Boston		4.20	-0.07
Greg Vaughn, Milwaukee		3.83	-0.43

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:14:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.151118.1557@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>Why do you have this fascination with part-timers? It is a FACT that neither
>Alou nor Sanders have nearly as much playing time as Karros. It is also a 
>FACT that Karros plays in a much more difficult park for hitters: in fact, the
>5-year average for SLG and HR increase is higher for Riverfront than for any
>other park in the majors (yes, including Wrigley, Tiger Stadium, and Atlanta).

Why do you have this fascination with everyday players, even if they are below
average?  By your logic, Tony Pena (who played nearly everyday for Boston)
would be more valuable than Chris Hoiles, who missed half of the season,
despite the fact that Pena is almost the worst offensive catcher you can find
in the majors this year, and that Hoiles is the best in the AL?

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Just a thought...
Date: 9 Sep 1992 01:25:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) says:

>In article <Sep.4.17.12.51.1992.2511@remus.rutgers.edu>, William Pittenger writes:
>
>> 	If you were a manager or GM and you only had these two
>> choices, no if, ands, or buts, or conditions, but just the choice of
>> having a team that had excellent pitching and terrible hitting, or
>> terrible pitching and excellent hitting.
>
>I'd rather have the hitting.  Either team would be likely to finish .500
>this year, but hitting is more valuable in the long run because it is
>more consistent.  With a good offense virtually guaranteed for several
>years, I would have time to develop a pitching staff and possibly win
>the pennant.

     Okay, I know I'm changing the hypothetical, but I'm a law student, and
my professors do it all the time!  Would you still say the same thing if this
were WRigley Field or Ebbets Field we were talking about?  True, you have to
win on the road as well, but I'd rather take the great-pitching team in these
parks because they can compensate for the small dimensions, much better, and
a fellow like Jose Cruz, while he might look ordinary in the Astrodome, would
hit .310 with 30 homers in his best years at Ebbets.
     Consequently, if I had my favorite pitchers' paradise, Forbes Field,
I would want the hitters.  Of course, I would also need them to be great
fielders to run down mistakes in the gaps, etc.
     So, that raises a question - which would you take?  An all-pitching team
in Ebbets Field, where the fielders don't have to worry as much about mistakes,
or an all-hitting team in Forbes or Griffith STadium, where you would not
only have to worry about improving the team pitching-wise, but perhaps
defensively, as well.  The Mets of recent years tell me who I'd take - the
pitching team in Ebbets.  Hey, so one starter goes down; you've still got the
guns if your bullpen is good enough.
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu      :    "Every baby born into the world is
Real home: Canton, Ohio             :  finer than the last."--Charles Dickens
 Trying to follow in the path of our :     "A baby is an inestimable
Lord;anything close will be a success:  blessing and bother."--Mark Twain
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pitchers and PTP
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:58:54 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

Would some kind soul who has the PTP board game please help me out.  I don't
know much about PTP (just what I pull off the net) and was wondering, how
does PTP handle the pitcher's contributions?  I have played APBA and didn't
like their way of grading pitchers, A,B,C, etc.  Picking pitcher's simply
came down to (for the most part) who had the best rating.  I like SOM
much better but was shocked to see 3B on a pitchers card.  This ended up
with Kent Hrbek getting two triples in the same game (not likely in the
same season, even).

i recently stumbled across a Sports Illustrated all-star game at a garage
sale.  I really like the way they handle pitching:  you first roll for the
pitcher's card.  Most of the results for the pitcher's roll (the first roll)
are "Swing Away".  However, some of the rolls (many for some pitchers)
result in other possibilities, ie BB, SO, FO (flyout).  I like this because
it truly represents the fact that "the pitcher got him to flyout" or
"the pitcher walked him."  If the result is "Swing Away", then you roll
for the batter's card (this happens more often then not).  Here you can
get any range of results and seems to be similar to a strat batters card.

Of course a problem with the SI version I have is that it doesn't account
for a pitcher who tends to give up more homers, but it could.  Of course,
it would then have to be correctable for weak hitting 2Ber's who never
hit homers (like the N/W rating in strat).

Any comments would be appreciated...

paul
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks on the Net
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:46:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Little Sisters of the Mentally Deranged

In article <BuFEsz.71I@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:

***A bunch of stuff about Net Abuse that is mostly true but lacking in****
*****************sufficient carriage returns deleted**********************
>
>In short, this is how you should reply to (me, for example) when you disagree:
>No, Rob, you're wrong because your argument [such-and-such] flaws.
>
>Not:
>What? Were you beaten senseless as a child and never recovered?
>
>Nor:
>Your idiotic spewings just make you look ridiculous to everyone on the net. Why 
>don't you just give up on having a real brain so the rest of us can live in
>peace?
>
>Not even:
>I fart in your general direction, you wiper of other people's bottoms.  Now get
>out of here before I taunt you a second time.
>
Now hold on there. This is one of my personal favorites and would certainly
qualify as an acceptable net.mild.abuse.but.with.some.humor response. The
real bummer here is I missed, due to workload, one of the great flame wars
of 1992, by all accounts. Of course, I can understand why Gary is on the
edge right now. First Mr. Snowmobile(aka The human tree stump) comes back, 
then Welch starts pitching like he was still drinking, Stew follows, Mac
gets hurt and they trade Jose. The only thing keeping him from going round
the bend is the A's are still in 1st. I mean there's the Eck vs Fingers
business, Rickey Wars, Cecil "Baby's got Back" Fielder stuff, Cruising
"The Warehouse" to get the names of 100 albums, Rotator cuffs, .signatures
to edit. He's dealing with a lot of crap here. After he finishes all that
he has homework to do. The list is endless.

I can understand where this could get outta hand, but if I were you I 
would simply fart in his general direction and be done with it. :^)

Disclaimer: Any potential humor in this post was irrevocably intended.

luigi



--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"