From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Run conservatives, run away! (Was: Re: Homophobics can't...)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:00:57 GMT
Followup-To: ba.politics
Distribution: ba
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <5092@gold.gvg.tek.com>, mikea@zorba.gvg.tek.com (Michael P.
Anderson) wrote:

> >Explain Carter.  Explain FDR.  Explain Clinton if he wins.  That's EXACTLY
> >what you'll be getting.
> 
> Carter was a dictator?? I don't know Rick, I've been sitting here reading
> your posts about blaming Wilson for the Ca. budget mess, blaming Congress
> for the mess the U.S. presently finds itself in, blaming women when they
> get pregnant, and I just can't figure out what makes you think the
> way you do. In general I try not to blame, but in the above instances
> I think there is plenty of responsibility to spread around. Where's the
> common ground Rick?

Sure there is.  I was explaining that there have been presidents that have
had majorities in Congress and that they were not dictators.  I can't
remember exactly what the above was a reference too since I didn't save
your message so I can't really make a great comeback here (all the better
for your eyes, I am sure <g>).

I don't blame Wilson for the budget mess: I blame the legislators.
I blame congress for more of the countries woes than I do the president.
I don't blame women for getting pregnant: I blame them for terminating a
life.

I don't see the problem here, but there is obviously one here.  Let's try
to work it out.  You ask "Where is the common ground?"

I like it when people think logically and act logically.  I like discussing
topics with people when they back up their opinions with some sort of
logical argument.  I might not *like* their conclusions, but I do respect
the fact that they are at least *thinking*.  I always use my mom as an
example.  I hear my mom say "I hate Bush because he is only for the rich." 
So I ask, "In what way is he for the rich, mom?"  and I get "He just is." 
That is the sort of thinking that scares me.  You and I might disagree on
lots of issues, but we at least provide some kind of logic to back
ourselves up.

Why do I not blame Wilson?  Because I agree with him.  I agree that Willie
Brown is a bigger threat than Wilson.  I believe that people want to blame
the executive for *everything* yet not give them the power to accomplish
the changes that people want.

Why do I blame congress?  Well, first I blame both.  Second, I blame
congress MORE.  I think that Clinton, should he win, will be just as
frustrated by this congress as Bush is.  I really do believe that.

> Marked a liberal, the message I got from Houston was that if I don't conform
> to their view of the world, there is no place for me in my own country. How
> does that make me feel? Well, I'll tell you:
> 
> This is my country too. I'm not telling you how to behave or what to think.
> Please don't tell me how to behave or what to think. If you continue I will
> have to deprive you of your freedoms before you deprive me of mine. Is that
> clear?

I agree with you.  I have to ask: What did you watch in Houston?  I watched
LOTS on C-SPAN (The networks are soooooo biased it is sick) and I got many,
many messages out of Houston.  That was great.  I got censorship out of New
York.  From Houston I got Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, AIDs, Congressmen (and
women), divergent views and all sorts of stuff.  From New York all I got
was one-sidedness, anti-Jerry movements, let-jerry-speak movements and all
I really got was "We have to win."  

Pat Buch. bothers me TOO.  I can't stand him.  But I also can't stand Jerry
Brown.  All parties have their weird things and people.  You don't just
hide them.  The networks really played up Pat B.  That's all they talked
about.  It was a crock.  He was one speech representing one faction of the
party.  He is not mainstream.  But the networks would have you believe he
was.
--
Rick Eames
athos@apple.com
My opinions are my own, thank you very much!
Newsgroups: ba.politics