HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf


One of the best things I was told when I started was that I shouldn't be
afraid to hurt the grass.  From what I've heard, fresh-air shots and tops are
the most common problems when starting to learn because people are afraid they
might hit the ground with their club.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: YAGR (yet another golf ruling)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 00:31:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <ILH.92Jul29085505@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes:

>In article <n-nmxj.mzimmers@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>   His tee shot was far and away the best of the day -- an easy 200 yards
>   of carry right down the pipe.  As this magnificent shot was coming to
>   a stop (but *before* it stopped), a local gull swooped down upon it,
>   snatched it up, and deposited it into a nearby lake.  Painful as it
>   was, he asked for, and abided by, the appropriate rule (19-1), and took
>   the penalty without further ado.

>Rule 19-1. By Outside Agency
>  If a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any
>`outside agency', it is a `rub of the green', no penalty is incurred
>and the ball shall be played as it lies except:
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    a. If a ball in motion after a `stroke' other than on the `putting
>  green' comes to rest in or on any moving or animate outside agency,
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                       it didn't.

>  the player shall, `through the green' or in a `hazard', drop the
>  ball, or on the putting green place the ball, as near as possible to
>  the spot where the outside agency was when the ball came to rest in
>  or on it, and

>    b. If a ball in motion after a stroke on the putting green is
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                               it wasn't.

>  deflected or stopped by, or comes to rest in or on, any moving or
>  animate outside agency except a worm or an insect, the stroke shall
>  be cancelled, the ball replaced and the stroke replayed.

>    If the ball is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be
>substituted.    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^                                   it wasn't.
            it was.

>There's no penalty for an `outside agency' (the gull) picking up your
>ball.  It doesn't matter where the ball is taken.  You replace your
>ball (or a replacement if necessary) as close to the spot where the
>`outside agency' picked up your ball.  You have to replace even if the
>`outside agency' moved your ball favorably.  There is no penalty for
>replacing your ball in this situation.

The ball isn't to be replaced at all.  The rule states "play it as it
lies," if it doesn't meet a) or b).  Playing it as it lies means
pretending the stroke itself propelled the ball into the lake.  He
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: cs@met.ed.ac.uk (C Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Yet Another Rules Question
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:22:09 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <1992Jul27.175022.19696@chiton.ucsd.edu>, martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera) writes:
|> Since we're in the subject of whats' fair and what's unfair, here's my
|> question. Actually in this situation a rule was broken, although there was
|> no intention. So my real question is: up to what point intention becomes part
|> of the rule?
|> 
|> This happened to a player in my foursome in a tournament a few months back:
|> 
|> We were on the tee of a 200-yds par-3. Player (A) hit a wood off the
|> tee to the middle of the green. A second player (B), who had been praising 
|> player A's ability with that "fairway" wood, out of curiosity asked A whether
|> it was a 4 or a 5 wood. Now, (I knew that) player B's intentions were purely to
|> satisfy his curiosity as to the club, and never meant to seek advice as to what
|> club to use. The third player in our group (C) demanded that B took a 2-stroke
|> penalty for seeking advice. After swearing that he didn't intend to break the
|> rule, B reluctantly took the penalty (for a moment I was in the middle and all
|> I could say was for B to play 2 balls and ask the "rules committee" for a ruling
|> after the round). Things to keep in mind: B had already a club in his hand
|> (a 3-iron, which he eventually used). I truly believed him when he said he was 
|> not seeking advice. Player C argued that even though it was not B's intention to
|> seek advice, by knowing what club A used he "knew" what type of shot was needed
|> (either consciously or sub-consciously).
|> 
|> Was this ruling correct? Since B took the penalty we never went to the comittee.

  No.  The correct procedure is to call player C a big girl's blouse, ram the 3 
iron up his arse, ditch his rule book in the nearest lateral water hazard (within
two club lenghts if possible and in any case no nearer the hole) and get on with the
golf.


-- 
----------------------
 Campbell Smith      
 remote sensing
 edinburgh university
 cs@uk.ac.ed.met
From: v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael M Gorman Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Quote of the day
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>  As far as I can tell, the only two moral lessons I've learned from 30
>  years of golf are that I have a more violent temper and a greater
>  inclination toward dishonesty than I'd ever have suspected.
> 

This is why one can say, without being silly, that golf can be
a character-building game.  Learning to control these two tendencies--
which show up in other departments of life as well, and are more
dangerous there--is a big part of learning to be a grown-up and not
an overgrown kid.


Michael Gorman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jim@dap.b29.ingr.com (Jim Weeks)
Subject: clubs needed
Keywords: pings or 845's
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:11:34 GMT

    Good Day all....

    I have a friend who is looking for a set of used Ping Eye 2's or Armour
    845's with standard lies and stiff shafts...I have called all over the
    Southeastern part of the country and can not find any...if anyone has
    seen a set somewhere or knows someone with a set to sell...please e-mail
    back to me...

     THANKS IN ADVANCE..

    BTW....Congrats to Nick Faldo for recovering from his attempted choke
    and pulling out the OPEN...As for John Cook he will recover and will
     win a major soon...I still think that Olazabol is the next dominate
    player though....(IMHO) 

-- 
Jim Weeks                            
Ph. (205)730-4494                     Intergraph Corp.
Fax (205)730-6239                     Huntsville, AL 35894-0001
internet: b29!dap!jim@ingr.com        uucp: ...uunet!ingr!b29!dap!jim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: (was: Determining interference.) Spirit of the Game
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:48:27 GMT

martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera) writes:
: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
: >
: > (...) but it's so depressing to see people
: >who don't understand what the game is really about.  It's not about
: >breaking 100, or 70 for that matter.  It's about doing your best
: >according to the rules, and taking satisfaction in your performance,
: >knowing in your heart that it was legitimate and untainted.
: 
: I coudn't have said it better.
: 

"Play the ball as it lays and the course as you find it.  If you can't
do that, do what's fair."

(Don't remember where the quote is from.)

The rest of the rules are just a sort of trivia contest to keep us
entertained when we're not on the course.  It's fun to know all the
details of the Rules of Golf, but I refuse to play with anybody who
takes the game so seriously that it matters.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  Civilization is fun!
Rosemount Inc.                                |Anyway, it keeps me busy!!
                                              |
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Where is FAQ?  
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:41:58 GMT

smith@cs.tulane.edu (Lon Smith) writes:

>This is a simple request could someone please send me the address
>of the FAQ for this group.

Please post it if there is one.  (There doesn't seem to be, though...)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bharriso@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bob Harrison)
Subject: Re: Hitting straight
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:32:03 GMT

In article <Brq8vJ.G6u@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mkohlhaa@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mike) writes:
> I've been playing golf for about 5 years now, but only recently have I started
> taking it very seriously.  I'm decent with club distance, chipping, putting,
> etc, but my BIG problem is hitting the ball without slice, especially off
> the tee.
> 
> From what I gather, correcting a slice is something that a great many golfers
> have to do at some point.  I hope that instead of having to enlist the
> aid of a pro, I might be able to get pointer or two from any of you to
> help me eliminate my slice.
> 
> Any suggestions???
> 
> Mike
> 
> e-mail: mkohlhaa@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
> physical location: In the trees on the right side of the fairway. 8-).
> 
> -- 
> 
> 					-- Mike
> 

 had the same problem ....I was told to get rid of my interlocking grip and
use a semi baseball grip with my right thumb going directly down the shaft
...also have the ball about 3 inches in from my left foot with my arms 
extended full, but not tight. 
 
This has made a big difference in my drives, they are now going straigher 
and after 10 rounds they started going a bit longer also.
From: thack@antares.tymnet.com (Tom Hackwood)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: New practice balls
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:02:40 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Jul21.165331.5835@eplrx7.es.duPont.com> walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) writes:
>Has anyone tried those new golf practice balls which have the heavy rubber
>(?) core and the foam outside?  They purport to "sound and feel" like the 
>real thing, but I haven't tried them.  Anything would be better than those
>plastic balls.
>
>Scott

I brought a bag a while ago.  I hated 'em.  They have the most erratic
flight of anything I've seen, including a housefly.  The feel?  Like
hitting an underweight ball.  The sound?  A muffled "dink" at best.

I'll stick to whiffle balls, thank you.

Tom

This is not the opinion of             "I may be synthetic,
BT North America, nor is               but I'm not stupid!"
this personal opinion                  - by Bishop from the
endorsed by BT North America.          movie "Aliens"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: Rules: Ground Under Repair
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:39:35 GMT

cmhaar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Chris Haar) writes:

>My approach shot to the green went long and landed on the far side;
>however, the greenskeepers were doing some minor construction where my ball
>landed, i.e., ground under repair.

>My question: Where do I seek relief?  If my ball lands in ground under
>repair, I am allowed to seek relief anywhere along the original path of
>flight of the ball as long as the ball is moved no closer to the hole,
>correct?  But since my ball went over the green, I had a choice between
>moving it closer to the hole or out into some really nasty undergrowth,
>which is unfair because had the ground not been under repair, I would have
>had a good lie in short grass. This situation was not addressed in the
>local course rules, and I'm curious how USGA rules apply.

You get relief (if you want it) at the nearest point that allows both the
ball and your stance to be outside the ground under repair and is no nearer
the hole.  In your case, you would probably be better off hitting from the
Ground Under Repair than dropping in the undergrowth.  If the course
really didn't want you to play from the GUR, they should have been nice and
established a ball drop so as to remove the unfairness.

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: whitley@mksol.dseg.ti.com 
Subject: Gerald Ford Invitational
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:16:03 GMT


Just wondering if anyone has ever been to the Jerry Ford
Invitational in Vail/Beaver Creek?  It is supposed to have
Pros and celebrities.

-Harlan


 Swing!
From: currie@Software.Mitel.COM (Kim Currie)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:44:51 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Jul30.123344.24694@nstn.ns.ca> maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern) writes:
>
Some stuff about US Women's Open  contestants nationality deleted
>Further to this line, I don't think Julie Inkster is a Canadian...

Both Inkster and Sheehan are Americans.  The Canadian that contended
(but did not make the playoff) was Dawn Coe.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve K Cramer)
Subject: Re: YAGR (ball in tree)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:47:09 GMT

In article <ILH.92Jul30095924@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu> ilh@lcs.mit.edu writ
es:
>Anybody know what happens if your ball stops in a tree?  Do you treat
>is an an unplayable lie?  Can you shake the tree?
>
>I seem to remember something in the US Open at Pebble Beach with Faldo
>shaking or climbing a tree to get his ball.  I never found out how it
>all worked out.
>
>Thanks, I've always been curious of this situtation.
>--
>
>--Lee Hetherington

1. You can hit it from there.
2. You have to identify the ball as yours to take an unplayable lie.
3. If you can't identify the ball as yours, you have to take a lost ball 
penalty. That means go back to where you hit the shot and hit another. Lost 
balls and OB's are real bad for a serious round, or a mind set.
4. I'm probably missing something here. Anybody, anybody.....Bueller?


I like Faldo now that he's shown that he has a sense of humor. After he climbed
the tree he said, "Where's Jane?"

*******************************************************************************
Steve Cramer               scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"just hit it"              614-292-8481
*******************************************************************************
From: cs@castle.ed.ac.uk (C Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Favorite shots to WATCH?
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:34:02 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <92209.132525RPT378@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, RPT378@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
|> In reading the give-and-take about TV coverage of the British Open, I seem to
|> get the impression that most of us would rather watch drives, approach, and
|> perhaps trouble shots by anyone on the course than just watch the leaders putt,
|> putt, putt.  I think I would rather see those beginning shots than endless putt
|> ing.  What do you think?  Is disinterest widespread amongst us duffers?  Larry
|> :)

The problem with drives is that you generaly just get televised sky with very
occasional glimpses of the ball.  Unfortunately this also encourages the 
commentators to fill the void with aural garbage, usually by trying to predict 
balls landing spot by the expression on the players face.

This is also a problem with the approaches.  The cameras tend to be set up only
for shots going to the greens so most of the most more interesting (wayward) ones
are missed.

----------------------
 Campbell Smith      
 remote sensing
 edinburgh university
 cs@uk.ac.ed.met     
                     
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve K Cramer)
Subject: Re: greenhorn (not) learning to swing
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:16:10 GMT

I agree that wiffle, or plastic balls, don't give you a real feel for hitting a
golf ball. I will say that they do exaggerate the spin, therefor you can see if
you are hitting slices, or hooks. I practice with a plastic ball all the time. 
I like them because I can move the ball around trees and stuff. I then try to 
do the same when I get in real trouble on the course. I helps me.

*******************************************************************************
Steve Cramer               scramer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"just hit it"              614-292-8481
*******************************************************************************
From: rws@duke.cs.duke.edu (Ronnie W. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Average hitting distances continued
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:34:39 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

My $.02 on the average hitting distances query.

1. To be effective in the "target golf" world of many American courses, I 
   think you want/have to know your carry distance.  The roll is a function
   of too many variables (like 90+ degree weather with no rain for two weeks
   on courses with no water on fairways -- you can hit 30 and 40 yards short
   of the green with a long iron and run it on).

2. "Average hitting distance" tends to be a function of your handicap, up
   to a point.  There was some study in one of the Golf pubs. a few years
   ago that had some formula for what was your lowest expected handicap as
   a function of how far you drive the ball.  I drive about 215-225 through
   the air on average, and my limit was somewhere in the 5 range.  I'm
   currently a 10.1.  Obviously, if you develop an incredible short game, you
   can overcome this, but all things being equal, lower handicap folks tend
   to hit the ball farther.  Notice the word "tend", no flames please.

Well, with all that said, here are my distances.  I play with 8 year old
Wilson X-31 irons and woods, stiff shaft irons and regular shaft woods, the
old forged irons:

wedge  105-115
9-iron 115-125
8-iron 125-135
7-iron 135-145
6-iron 145-155
5-iron 155-165
4-iron 165-175
3-iron 175-185
5-wood 185-200
3-wood 200-215
driver 215-225
-- 
Ronnie Smith             Duke University                Durham, NC 
 Addresses: CSNET: rws@duke  UUCP: decvax!duke!rws  INTERNET: rws@cs.duke.edu

The next Duke Invitational,  April 3 - 5, 1993 in New Orleans.
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Yet Another Rules Question
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:05:11 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <ILH.92Jul27182201@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu>, ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
|> I know that we're not really rule nit-picking, but should (only) B
|> really get the penalty?
|> 
|> Rule 8-1:
|> A player shall not give advice to anyone in the competition except his
|> partner.  A player may ask for advice from only his partner or either
|> of their caddies.
|> 
|> Sounds like if A answered he gave advice in violation.

  Yep! And 'either of their caddies' applies to only his and his partner's
  caddies, of course! It is true in competition - and the original poster
  did say that that foursome was in a tournament - thus - the players who
  asked for advice (what club IS advice and is NOT allowed!!) and those who
  gave it should be penalized!!

|> 
|> Would it be any different if B asked the question after he (and
|> everyone else) had completed their shots?  Would the advice help
|> further along in the round?

  No - you can't ask for advice from your opponent - anytime during the round!!

|> 
|> P.S. I think it is too difficult to try to establish intention, so the
|> rule should probably not depend on the players' intent.

  Intention doesn't have much to do with any of the rules except for hitting
  the ball.

|> --
|> 
|> --Lee Hetherington


-Ron Birnbaum
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jim@dap.b29.ingr.com (Jim Weeks)
Subject: Re: What's a flyer lie?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:39:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.152210.25522@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>, sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
|> On TV, they're always talking about how a ball will fly out of the rough.
|> Anyone know the reason?  It seams that rough should always decrease the
|> flight of the ball.
|> 
|> Roger
   Good question.... what happens in the rough depends on the lie in the rough
    if there is a little bit of grass behind the ball three things happen .. 1st
    because of the grass being in front of the club head the ball actually is 
    moving forward before the clubhead reaches it..kind of a running start..
    2nd. at the moment of impact the water retained inside the grass is compressed
    between the club and the ball and it explodes adding to the extra velocity of
    the ball ..and finally... because of the grass and the water the grooves on
     the club face do not get a firm grip on the ball thus reducing its backspin
     resulting in something like a knuckleball ... all of this results is one
     thing.. a really hot shot that has no predictable direction .. I caught one
      this past weekend in a tourney ...had 145 to the pin and hit a 9 iron 
      about 15 yards past the green.
-- 
Jim Weeks                            
Ph. (205)730-4494                     Intergraph Corp.
Fax (205)730-6239                     Huntsville, AL 35894-0001
internet: b29!dap!jim@ingr.com        uucp: ...uunet!ingr!b29!dap!jim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dye@edison.llumc.edu (Leonard Dye)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Driving distances
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:50:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: LLUMC Radiation Research Lab

The other day someone was telling about John Daly's drives being 300+ yards and
I was wondering why his average is only 280 or so. Does the PGA averages includelay ups off the tee like a 400 yard par 4 with a 3 wood? Any comments on why hisaverage driving distance is much lower?

Leonard Dye
dye@proton.llumc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf