From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Neden?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:12:12 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <62176@mimsy.umd.edu> uysal@cs.umd.edu (Mustafa Uysal) writes:

>  Sayin Serdar Argic,
>  Lutfen sadece su soruya cevap verebilirmisiniz : 
> "NEDEN?"

Cunku...

>Serdar--
>You conveniently ignore the fact that one million (or so, I don't have
>the exact number handy) Armenians were killed by the Ottomans toward
>the end of World War I.  Trying to deny this is a lot like trying to

Oboy, oboy, oboy. Well, apparently we have another historical revisionist 
to contend with. You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a 
huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. 
If you feel that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in 
this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a 
lecture to another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but 
a fact.

I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, 
lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan 
to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is 
nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in 
x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, 
that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel 
free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,
the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian
criminal organizations.

Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men,
women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and 
those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.

During the First World War and the ensuing years - 1914-1920, 
the Armenian Dictatorship through a premeditated and systematic 
genocide, tried to complete its centuries-old policy of 
annihilation against the Turks and Kurds by savagely murdering 
2.5 million Muslims and deporting the rest from their 1,000 year 
homeland.

The attempt at genocide is justly regarded as the first instance
of Genocide in the 20th Century acted upon an entire people.
This event is incontrovertibly proven by historians, government
and international political leaders, such as U.S. Ambassador Mark 
Bristol, William Langer, Ambassador Layard, James Barton, Stanford 
Shaw, Arthur Chester, John Dewey, Robert Dunn, Papazian, Nalbandian, 
Ohanus Appressian, Jorge Blanco Villalta, General Nikolayef, General 
Bolkovitinof, General Prjevalski, General Odiselidze, Meguerditche, 
Kazimir, Motayef, Twerdokhlebof, General Hamelin, Rawlinson, Avetis
Aharonian, Dr. Stephan Eshnanie, Varandian, General Bronsart, Arfa,
Dr. Hamlin, Boghos Nubar, Sarkis Atamian, Katchaznouni, Rachel 
Bortnick, Halide Edip, McCarthy, W. B. Allen, Paul Muratoff and many 
others.

J. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of
the Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.

Bernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,
Princeton University.

Halil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of
the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.

Peter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.

Stanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at
Los Angeles.

Thomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research
Institute, University of Pennsylvania.

Ronald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,
University of Illinois.

Howard Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.

Dankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political
Science, City University Graduate School, New York.

John Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History, 
University of Chicago.

John Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of
California at Berkeley.

Alan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.

Avigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.

Andreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California
at Los Angeles.

Kathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.

Roderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.

Walter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.

Caesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.

Tom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

Tibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.

Justin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.

Jon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).

Robert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.

Madeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.

James Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.

.......so the list goes on and on and on.....

Now, where is your non-existent list?

By Rachel A. Bortnick:

"A more appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
 systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the 
 independent republic of Armenia (which lasted from 1918 to 1921),
 which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that
 republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated 
 in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."

Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.
University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.

"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the
 area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population
 of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were
 Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.
 Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third
 of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the 
 Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan
 uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians
 as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,
 however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the
 guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000
 inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character 
 notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian 
 Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the 
 southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia." 
 (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of 
 Transcaucasia).

In 1920, '0' percent Turk. 

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as 
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work 
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. 
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts 
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable 
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets 
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They 
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border 
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole 
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to 
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain 
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of 
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for 
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the 
 scattered bones of the dead." 

                             Ohanus Appressian
                            "Men Are Like That"
                                   p. 202.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

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