HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Subject: Re: Meteo book advice for lost physicist?
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 07:04:46 GMT

In article  joeb@atmos.washington.edu (Joe Barsugli) writes:
>In article stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
>   In article orloff@surya9.cern.ch (Jean Orloff) writes:
>   >I would like to have a better QUANTITATIVE understanding of climatic
>   >and micro-climatic phenomena (eg, the celebrated foehn effect,
>   >frontogenesis, ascending currents, inversions etc...).
>   >
>   >However, the books I have seen so far remain vague and unsatisfactory for a
>   >physicist like me:
>   >*	Jean Orloff		*	e-mail: ORLOFF@dxcern.cern.ch	*
>
> >  The single best atmosphere or ocean (it has both) dynamics book for a
> >  physicist is Atmosphere-Ocean Dynamics by Adrian Gill.
>
>I agree that "Gill" is an excellent book, but I would also suggest
>Holton's Introduction to Dynamic Meteorology.  This book takes the
>quantitative approach as well, but tends to concentrate on more
>idealized, and hence simpler problems.  In addition, I find the
>explanations and notation easier to understand on first reading than
>Gill.  
>
>Joe Barsugli (joeb@atmos.washington.edu)

For those of you who aren't familiar with the two books:
Holton is the basic undergrad text for a first course in dynamics. It is
rather extremely simplified in most parts, though necessarily so for its 
purpose. For someone who already has a degree in physics, the Gill book would
be far more interesting and useful, and is well presented for someone with
such a background. What's best all depends on what you need.

Also,
for mesoscale dynamics at the grad level, I recommend the lecture notes from
the 1984 NCAR summer colloquium. The lectures were given by Kerry Emanuel and
David Raymond. However, I think they give far too much credit to semi-geostrophic
theory (just as synoptic texts give far too much credit to quasi-geostrophic
theory)-- SG breaks down in rapidly evolving flows and in highly 3-dimensional
flows (e.g. fully baroclinic rather than equiv. barotropic) and QG breaks down
in any realistic interesting situation even on the large scale. But that's 
another topic for another post...

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment,sci.misc
From: babb@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Scott Babb)
Subject: Re: Another hurricane-killing idea
Organization: Sanders Associates
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:56:27 GMT

Shailendra Save (ssave@ole.cdac.com) wrote:
: In article <25AUG199222531905@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
: [...]
: >
: >In view of what such a competing storm could do to reduce
: >the force of a hurricane, will it ever be feasible to
: >manufacture a low-pressure area to do this?
: >If so, how would it most likely be done?
: 
: 
: 
:   Say, how about a nuclear detonation which would create a
: massive explosion and disturb the air enough to break the
: hurricane?  I think that it is not necessary to create a 
: low pressure area, a high pressure area would do just as well.
: All you would need to do is to break the swirl of the hurricane.
: 
: -Shailendra
: ssave@ole.cdac.com

Does anybody have a guess at the size of a 1 megaton fireball?
My (completely unfounded) guess is <= 1 mile in diameter.  This is
smaller than the diameter of the "eye" of a hurricane, which is
*a lot* smaller then the diameter of the actual hurricane.

Since a hurricane is basically a huge heat engine, the real question
becomes: "Would we be able to measure the *increase* in a hurricane's
force if we lobbed a 1 megaton nuke into it, or would the added energy
be a negligible percentage of the total energy of the hurricane?"

--
   Lockheed Sanders may disagree so these are solely the opinions of:
             Scott L. Babb - babb@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com
              "We didn't inherit the Earth from our parents,
                   we are borrowing it from our children."
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Farmer's Almanac and Andrew
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:15:52 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>"...while in August a possible hurricane could bring an extra 3 inches of
>rain, or more, to the south."  How's that for hitting it right on the 
>button?  

Damn big button.

What exactly are they saying?  That in August, a hurricane might, or might 
not, pass near enough some point in Florida to account for an extra three 
inches of rainfall in the local monthly total.  In other words, they start 
with a decent bet and add enough weaselwords for a campaign speech. Pardon 
me for not giving up The Weather Channel in favor of an almanac.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Klein)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Exploiting instability (was Re: Atmospheric energy levels)
Date: 4 Sep 1992 18:49:35 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suzies

In article <4SEP92.09541134@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) wrote:
>
>>-- given the folks who said they would
>>sacrifice their firstborn or signifcant body parts to be able to
>>fly into a hurricane.
>
>It's really not that exciting.
>
Yeah right, this reminds me of the folks over in rec.skiing saying that
Vail is *MUCH* better that Utah, go there.

I can see maybe the 100th flight, especially if your're working.  But the
first flight?  C'mon.....

`Chris

How much would a used P3 cost?  How much would you pay for a flight?
Business opportunity!

`Chris

--
Christopher Klein   (415) 336-5959      |     Cacophony & Dyspepsia    |
calvins@suzies.Eng.Sun.Com              |             - * -            |
My comments are entirely my own, sheesh!|      Software Engineers      |
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: marcia@virga.ucar.edu (Marcia Politovich)
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:01:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.200832.5667@bmerh85.bnr.ca> mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca (Max Feil) writes:
>I posted this in rec.aviation several years ago...
>
>Newsgroups: rec.aviation
>Subject: Flying in weather extremes.
>Keywords: Hurricane
>Date: 15 Nov 89 02:54:47 GMT
>Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
>
>
>Last night I watched an episode of Nova that I had taped from the week
>before on Hurricanes. It showed a 4-engine propeller driven scientific
>aircraft used by the U.S. hurricane center to take weather readings

etc....

Try sci.geo.meteorology. There are a lot of 
folks there who would have the answers to your questions.
I'll also bet there are some who have flown on the aircraft (a P-3
operated by NOAA) in hurricanes and probably have good
"war stories" to tell. There's some discussion now in that
newsgroup on hurricane Andrew, so this topic would be timely. 

-- Marcia Politovich, National Center for Atmospheric Research
standard disclaimers and all that jazz

>Max
>--
>Max Feil  mkfeil@bnr.ca | Disclaimer:
>Bell-Northern Research  |   What do I know? I'm just a Nerd on the Big Ranch.
>P.O Box 3511 Station C, |
>Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.| "Enrich The Soil, Not EveryBody's Goal" Peter Gabriel


Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: himacanes worse than hericanes
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:19:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.181142.28812@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>
>Time for silly post of the day.
>The last few destructive hurricanes have been named after males- Hugo, Bob,
>and Andrew.  (Odds are one in eight of a three male sequence happening
>if half the names are male.)



I would say that your post should graduate from silly post of the day, to 
silly post of the month.  



-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:37:59 GMT
Distribution: na

Jack Brindle writes

+ Well, ever notice they fly propeller-driven aircraft int the storms? For
+ Andrew, I noticed the usual P3 was replaced with a C130. There are two 

The main reason is that the NHC doesn't have enough aircraft & crews
to keep a 24 hour survillence on the storm, while the AF has plenty
of both. I noticed that some of the discussion refered to the AF
aircraft as "reserve". Have they been shifted into a reserve unit?

Another reason is that a P3 can't take the same amount of abuse
as a C-130. I think it was in Hugo (or perhaps Gilbert) that
an C-130 encountered a *9g* updraft. I don't think a P3 would
survive that.

All in all, I'm very glad that the bean counters and congresscritters
didn't end the funding of the weather recon units.

James
From: dairiki@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Dairiki)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Where to purchase barometer?
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:16:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.dairiki.715630577
Reply-To: dairiki@u.washington.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington

fgk@well.sf.ca.us (Frank G Kienast) writes:


>Is it possible to purchase an electronic digital barometer for $100 or less?  
>If not, where could I get a (reasonably good quality) aneroid barometer?
> 
>Frank Kienast
> 

Timex makes a watch with a barometer/altimeter (~$70 at REI...)
I don't know the specs offhand -- I think it reads altitude to 5 meters...
-- 
-----
==>{ Jeff Dairiki   (KI6MO/7)  } University of Washington           
   { dairiki@u.washington.edu  } Applied Physics Laboratory        
   { (206)543-6262 / 543-1399  } 1013 NE 40th St; Seattle, WA 98105
From: dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: BOOM! yet another hurricane-killing idea
Keywords: nuclear hurricane control
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:41:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Technologies Group, Inc.  Palo Alto CA

>A side issue would be:  If reducing hurricanes meant increasing the number
>of competing tropical storms, would the trade off be acceptable?  Or would
>the climactic changes be more devastating than the hurricanes?  (The
>plant and animal life being adapted to one set of conditions and suddenly 
>being subjected to others.)  

An article I read a few years ago (sorry, can't cite specifics) reported
on some global climate modelling which had been done to explore the
possible results of using nuclear weapons, or cloud-seeding, or some
other technique to disrupt hurricanes while they were still in an early
stage of their development.

The models seemed to indicate that the results could be Bad.

The reason is that hurricanes are, it seems, a fairly significant
mechanism for transferring solar energy from the tropics to higher
latitudes... they bring a lot of heat energy with them when they move
north (or south) in the form of warm air and water vapor.  If hurricanes
were disrupted during their early tropical-storm phase, there would be a
significant change in the global heat-transfer cycle.

The climate model suggested that one possible outcome would be a major
increase in the heat levels in the tropics... followed by one or more
GIGANTIC hurricanes which would tap off the excess stored heat, and
which might very well prove to be uncontrollable.
-- 
Dave Platt                                                VOICE: (415) 813-8917
              Domain: dplatt@ntg.com      UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt
 USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2468 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Hurricane Allen?
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:21:09 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks) wrote:
>'Allen' was retired after a fine performance in 1980.  'Andrew' replaced
>'Allen' in the list the next time the names cycled through the six-year
>rota.  1986 Andrew only made it to tropical depression status

Close.  They don't get names unless they read tropical storm strength.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:11:47 GMT
Distribution: na

BARR KEITH STABLER writes

+ exceeds the structural limitations.  Therefore, in theory, even a C-152  
could
+ handle a hurricane (although only a complete moron would try it :^) ).

Oh, I dunno about that...one of the earliest hurricane recon missions
was flown in an AT-6 in 1943. It was a Gulf of Mexico storm, and the
pilots where based at Bryan Air Base, Tx. That certainly qualifies
them as honorary Aggies.

Historically speaking, when was the first recon mission into a hurricane
or typhoon flown?

James
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Meteo book advice for lost physicist?
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:27:16 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <ORLOFF.92Aug27120020@surya9.cern.ch> orloff@surya9.cern.ch (Jean Orloff) writes:
>I would like to have a better QUANTITATIVE understanding of climatic
>and micro-climatic phenomena (eg, the celebrated foehn effect,
>frontogenesis, ascending currents, inversions etc...).
>
>However, the books I have seen so far remain vague and unsatisfactory for a
>physicist like me:
>*	Jean Orloff		*	e-mail: ORLOFF@dxcern.cern.ch	*

The single best atmosphere or ocean (it has both) dynamics book for a
physicist is Atmosphere-Ocean Dynamics by Adrian Gill. Gill was originally a
physicist by training and you can clearly tell by reading the book. It is
quite advanced but starts with all the basics, and a physicist will actually
probably follow it more easily than someone with a meteorology B.S.

For more of a fluids approach, another highly mathematical development from
first principles is The Ceaseless Wind by John Dutton. This is a must in
every meteorologist's library!

Both books have sections which are as mathematically complicated as anyone
could possibly want in a textbook. I'm sure Jean will be happy with the
style, though the content is predominantly more on larger scale phenomena.

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:10:13 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <10463@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
]Jack Brindle writes
]
]+ Well, ever notice they fly propeller-driven aircraft int the storms? For
]+ Andrew, I noticed the usual P3 was replaced with a C130. There are two 
]
]The main reason is that the NHC doesn't have enough aircraft & crews
]to keep a 24 hour survillence on the storm, while the AF has plenty
]of both. I noticed that some of the discussion refered to the AF
]aircraft as "reserve". Have they been shifted into a reserve unit?
]
]Another reason is that a P3 can't take the same amount of abuse
]as a C-130. I think it was in Hugo (or perhaps Gilbert) that
]an C-130 encountered a *9g* updraft. I don't think a P3 would
]survive that.

I have trouble believing that assertion. A P-3 is a smaller airframe
with the same engines and electronics suite as a C-130. I would be
surprised if a C-130 is more durable (spoken as a former P-3
crewman who went through Typhoone Dora).


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
 - - It is not enough to be right. One must also be effective! - -
From: gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Nathan Gasser ><>  )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Andrew animation for Mac (update)
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:53:24 GMT

[...talk of Andrew animation size...]

The reason a QuickTime movie is compressed more than gif or
standard compression, etc, is that QuickTime is meant to deal
with a variety of image qualities.  For example, a ppm is a
24bit image, no?  GIF files are only 8-bit.  There is no
quality gain converting a weather gif to ppm.  Second, QuickTime
is a movie format, and does a number of compression schemes dealing
with changes over time.  Frame differencing, I believe they call it.
Each image is only slightly different from the previous image, so
it doesn't store the whole image again.

Now that we're completely of the subject of this newsgroup....

Nate.




--

Nathan Gasser       ><>         
gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu     
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Another hurricane-killing idea
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:59:22 GMT

cp> Charles Packer
gs> Gary Strand

cp> In view of what such a competing storm could do to reduce the force of a
cp> hurricane, will it ever be feasible to manufacture a low-pressure area to
cp> do this?

gs> Unlikely. The magnitude of the energies involved are incredible. For ex-
gs> ample, even a mundane ol' thunderstorm expends more energy over its life-
gs> cycle than the entire US does for some non-trivial length of time.

  Here's some data on the energy expenditure of a hurricane, courtesy the
  NWS:

  "While a hurricane lives, the transaction of energy within its circulation
   is immense.  The condensation heat energy released by a hurricane in one
   day can be the equivalent of energy released by fusion of four hundred
   20-megaton hydrogen bombs.  One day's released energy, converted to
   electricity, could supply the United States' electrical needs for about
   six months."

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
From: schmidt@cathedral.cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Evan Schmidt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Were/what is AFOS PIL etc...
Keywords: Long Range Weather Forecasting
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:00:52 GMT

Hello Meteorologists,
	I looked at the FAQ recently posted, however it wasn't clear to me 
where I could find long range weather forecasts.  At the madlab.sprl.umich.edu 
site it mentioned "AFOS PIL NMCPMD30D - WMO HEADER FXUS07 KWBC" as a place to 
find such information.  Only problem is that I don't know what/where that is.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

--
Eat, Drink, and Play Frizbee!

--
Evan Schmidt
schmidt@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu
From: ks19@ellis.uchicago.edu (kyle leigh swanson)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Why do Hurricanes Travel West?
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:26:58 GMT
Reply-To: ks19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug26.035349.3990@physics.ucla.edu> reynolds@physics.ucla.edu (Reynolds) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.130550.19223@hemlock.cray.com> n3884@cray.com writes:

>> Stuff about which way a hurricane moves
>
>But the earth does rotate, and the coriolis force breaks this 
>convective cell into three cells: 1 - near the equator, the surface
>winds are from east to west.  2 - at mid-latitudes, the surface
>winds are from west to east.  3 - near the poles, the prevailing
>surface winds are again from east to west.
>
>Anthony Reynolds
>reynolds@physics.ucla.edu

I hate to be a stickler, but your answers for 2 and 3 are wrong.  The 
prevailing winds in the extratropical atmosphere are from the west 
due to the north--south temperature gradient, not any convective
action.  The Ferrel and Polar cells are not strong enough to have
much effect on the zonally averaged circulation. 

Kyle Swanson
k-swanson@uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Andrew animation for Mac (update)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:22:41 GMT

In article <87107@netnews.upenn.edu> gasser@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Nathan Gasser ><>  ) writes:
>
>Hi folks,
>
>	As I mentioned before, I'm making a Mac QuickTime animation
>of Hurricane Andrew from weather GIFs.  If anyone is seriously interested
>in working with an animation of Andrew, you might want to contact me soon.
>I will be posting the QuickTime animation, but it will be cropped to
>the Gulf region only, due to size.  Also, anyone familiar with NIH Image 1.44
>for Mac knows that Image's animation is much smoother and more precise
>than QuickTime, plus Image includes utilities to analyize the images.
>The disadvantage is that the Image raw files are about 3 Mb per day,
>whereas a full-size QT movie is under 1Mb per day.

The full image rate is 1200x600x24 or 17 megapixels per day.
Standard image compression techniques don't work well on fractals such as cloud
images. The gif algorithm compresses to about 75% of original size.
The "compress" program does to about 60%.  What is the success rate of Quick
Draw compression?  I don't know if there are any good public domain
iterated fractal compression programs out there.

Most animation programs can read what the Portable Bitmap Package calls pgms,
so I use "giftoppm < image.GIF | pnmtopgm >> moviefile" to accumulate a
movie file.  My 85 images of the past four days is up to 15MB (half resolution).
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: mitchell@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (DeWayne Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Lightning Photography Query
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:14:02 GMT

In article <92238.200030RHG@psuvm.psu.edu> <RHG@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>For a magazine article, I'm putting together a list of hints
>for taking lightning photos.  Select a shooting spot out
>of the wind, for instance, and carry a small flashlight
>on a string around your neck.
>
>Any ideas you'd like to pass on?  Thanks.
>======================================================================
>Robert Gannon              |  Bitnet:    RHG@PSUVM
>35 Burrowes Bldg.          |  Internet:  RHG@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
>Penn State                 |  Phone:     814 355-4800 or 355-0943
>University Park, PA 16802  |  Fax:       814 863-7285

Well, yes there are a few ideas.  First, a slow film (low ASA) will be
beneficial.  No higher than 100 speed.  Slide film is preferable due to
higher resolution.  Various slide films will give you varying color
as well.  I personally have used 100 print film and 100 Ektachrome and
the Ektachrome is more purple while Kodachrome is more blue (so I've 
heard).  Also, good photos require and interesting foreground subject
like an old barn, windmill, or peculiar tree.  Furthermore don't forget
the tri-pod and cable release for perfectly still shots. Well, these ar
only a few tips.  As far as aperture settings I'll let someone else
tackle that as I usually "ride by the seat of pants".

E. DeWayne Mitchell (NSSL/OUSOM)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology