HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carlsonb@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Bradley P Carlson)
Subject: need vt220 ASCII/Escape characters
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:38:24 GMT

I am configuring a terminal program for vt220 emulation, and need the
ASCII codes and escape sequences that the vt220 generates for some of
its odder function keys.  This includes (but is not limited to) the
"Previous," "Next," "Exit," and "Gold-PF1" through "Gold-PF4" keys.
If anybody can help me with these definitions, I'd be really grateful!

-Thanx in advance,

Bradley Carlson, carlsonb@stolaf.edu

Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: snydert@dmapub.dma.org (Tony Snyder)
Subject: ADDS viewpoint 78
Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association: Dayton, Ohio
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:43:20 GMT

I've recently obtained an ADDS viewpoint 78 (vp-78) terminal without any
documentation or instructions.  It is an, at least somewhat, intellegent
terminal as it has no "dip" switches for its setup.  I want to put this 
thing to use as soon as possible.  I would be greatly appreciative if 
someone out there could fill me in on a setup procedure, or how I might
obtain some "docs".  Please respond here as I am having difficulty in 
receiving mail.       Thanks in advance.
                  Tony Snyder
From: xxj8754@ultb.isc.rit.edu (X.X. Jin)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: price of VT220 terminal + keyboard
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:14:35 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: xxj8754@ultb

I am buying a (used) vt220 terminal and keyboard. But I have no
idea how much that cost. Does anybody know what would be the
acceptable price range? Or if you had similar shopping
experience, how much did YOU pay for them? 

	The person wants $350 obo for them. Do you think it is a
rip-off? (Personally, I think that is outrageous).

Thank you very much, and
	
	Merry Christmas
	Happy New Year!

--
 ______________________________________________________________
| Xia Jin			| (716) 272 - 7721	       |
| 367 Fairwood Circle		| xxj3910@cs.rit.edu 	       |
| Rochester, NY 14623		| xxj8754@ultb.isc.rit.edu     |
| Disclaimer: My opion is for myself, it does not necessarily  |
|       reflect the view of Rochester Institute of Technology. |
 --------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
 ______________________________________________________________
| Xia Jin			| (716) 272 - 7721	       |
| 367 Fairwood Circle		| xxj3910@cs.rit.edu 	       |
| Rochester, NY 14623		| xxj8754@ultb.isc.rit.edu     |
From: vtl@tik.vtt.fi (Tapio Luukkanen)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: some tvi955 problems ...
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:29:16
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
NNTP-Posting-Host: morko.tik.vtt.fi


Hello,

I have a second-hand tvi955 at home (without manual),
which I occasionally need to use with a screen
oriented package that relies quite heavily on function keys.

Unfortunately, the tvi function keys seem to emit quite
weird sequences (^A @ ^M for F1, ^A B ^M for F2, etc),
so I would like to program them to look more like say, vt100.

I seem to recall someone sending a Televideo summary here some
time ago, but I didn't need the info then and have lost the file, too.

1) Can anybody show me the escape sequence to program the
   function keys F1-F16 (and the shifted versions too, if possible) ?

2) Somehow, my TAB key sends the sequence "s/v". Could the hardware
   be broken, or can it be changed programmatically ?

3) Also, do there exist sequences to program the other keys
   (the arrow keys, home, line insert/delete, etc. ?)

Thank you for your attention, etc.

Tapio
--
! tapio luukkanen  !  vtl@tik.vtt.fi (130.188.52.2)
! home (358-0) 811 211  !  work 456 6056
From: bm811@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Suzy Larkin)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: laptop terminals
Date: 3 Jan 1993 18:53:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Could someone please inform me as to what the cheapest laptop 
terminal is?  Also, where would I find it?

-S
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: cheselka@cactus.org (Michael R. M. Cheselka)
Subject: Seiko 3620
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:52:03 GMT

I need to get a termcap for a Seiko 3620.  These terminals were attached to
a Seiko 8610 multi-user C/PM box.  I would like to recieve email from
anyone who may consider themselves an expert concerning information about
Seiko 3620.  Esp. annoying is the escape sequence:

ESC [ Ps1 ; Ps2 G

...which selects a tone, either 0 for 600hz, or 1 for 1200hz, for a binary
value( up to 16384) in increments on 26.6666ms, such that:

CTRL G == ESC[1;10G

...which is a 1200hz tone for 267ms.  The problem is that I would like to
write a morse code tutor that would work over phone lines with this
terminal.  To do that I would have to be able to specify a unit of silence
for a duration of 26.6666ms as well.

Any wizards out there?

P.S.  This terminal expects 12 volts on the rs232c port, but most modems
use 5 volts now.  What should I do?  Pull teeth on the serial cable?  Which
teeth?
-- 
cheselka@cactus.org               N5UVV              Michael R. M. Cheselka
os9@gnu.ai.mit.edu        Hangs out on 145.21mhz       400 W. 34th st. #103
membership@cactus.org                                 Austin, TX 78705-1331
{...}!cs.utexas!cactus.org!cheselka (512)452-9412v ( 24hours answer. mach.)
From: ekenberg@down.hep.upenn.edu (Tor L. Ekenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
Subject: black OPUS window when mouse is outside
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:49:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I read awhile ago about this problem but I don't think (or can't remember) that
anybody showed a fix that worked. My problem is that every time I move the mouse
outside the OPUS windows, they all turn black. I know that it is related to the
color map.

I am running opus2 version 4.2a, on a SPARCstation II with  SUN OS Release 4.1.3
and x11 R5. The window manager is twm.
From: "Perry L. Geib" <p00164@psilink.com>
Subject: CONTRACT OFFERED: flight sim IOS development, OH
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:14:50 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)
Apparently-To: uunet!comp-simulation

ATSIM, Inc. is a software service company specializing in Flight Simulation.  
ATSIM is owned and operated by experienced Flight Simulation software 
engineers.  We offer our contractors a full insurance package, tuition 
reimbursement, and technical assistance.

POSITION:		
		Instructor Operating Station Software Engineer

REQUIREMENTS:  	
		Previous Flight Simulation IOS experience 4 + years, Ada, 
		Silicon Graphics, DoD STD 2167A.

DESCRIPTION:	
		Engineer to design, develop and implement IOS software using 
		DOD STD 2167A.  Experience in real-time simulation of military 
		aircraft required.

LOCATION:		
		OH

RATE:		
		$35-45/Hour

DURATION:		
		6 months (with a possible follow-on of 6+ months)

FOLLOW-UP:	
		p00164@psilink.com
		800-292-8746 (Voice)
		607-277-1491 (FAX)

CONTACT:		
		Mary Shoemaker

NOTE:		
		All applicants will be asked for professional references and 
		undergo technical interviews prior to submission.  All 
		applicants selected will be subjected to a security investigation 
		and must meet eligibility requirements for access to 
		classified information.
		If you would like to be considered for this assignment 
		FAX or email (ascii format) your resume.



------------------------------


Subject: [NEW QUESTIONS]


------------------------------


From: dynacon@utcs.utoronto.ca (Wayne Sincarsin)
To: simulation@bikini.cis.ufl.edu
Subject: Simulation Software Wanted
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: 	Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:55:19 -0500
Content-Length: 961
X-Lines: 25


WANTED: Information on software for simulating

    i) the dynamics of contacting/impacting bodies (rigid or elastic), and/or
   ii) the nearest distance between moving bodies (e.g. nearest points and
       closest distance between two convex sets).

The particular application I'm interested in is the motion simulation
of a multi-link robot, with flexible links, as it comes into contact
with objects in the environment; the software would be used to validate
existing software, which in turn is being used to support the design
of robots for the Space Station.

Even if your software has a limited capability, I would like to hear from you.
Please respond via Email (or telephone); if there is sufficient interest, I'll
compile the responses and post them later.

   David Golla
   Dynacon Enterprises Ltd.
   5050 Dufferin St., Suite 222,
   Downsview, Ontario
   Canada M3H 5T5
   416-667-0505
   416-667-0109(Fax)
   email: dynacon@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca



------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.simulation
From: naa13@cl.cam.ac.uk (Noha Adly Atteya)
Subject: Simulation for distributed systems
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:13:50 GMT


I am searching for simulation tools that would help me
simulating data replication protocols in WAN, and I would
prefere that the tool would be possible to run on an IBM PC.

Appreciate any assistance you can provide

Noha


------------------------------

Return-Path: <W_N_McCrosky@mwmgate1.mitre.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 11:00:39 EST
From: W_N_McCrosky%MWCORP2@mwmgate1.mitre.org
To: simulation@bikini.cis.ufl.edu
Subject: simulation of database system and organizational impact
Content-Length: 790
X-Lines: 19

I am considering developing a simulation of a database system that would be 
accessed by users all over the US.  I am interested in developing cost 
estimates for the proposed system, especially personnel costs.  The system 
would have some significant, but currently unknown, personnel costs.

My first step was to do a literature search.  I initially limited the search to 
such keywords as "database," "simulation," "information retrieval," etc.  I 
found nothing useful.  I have talked to a couple of people who are expert at 
either simulation or DBMS (but not both) - they were not surprised that I came 
up empty-handed.

Do you have any references or insights that would be useful.  I have already 
posted to comp.databases.

Thanks
Bill McCrosky
mccrosky@mitre.org
(703) 883-5827


------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.simulation
From: cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Simulation tool for computer system analysis
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:54:32 GMT
Apparently-To: comp-simulation@archive.cis.ohio-state.edu

I'm looking for a simulation tool to study/analyze/compare the 
performance of computer systems, networks, queueing networks, etc.
Thanks for any response.

Yi-Chieh



------------------------------

From: news@Thunder.McRCIM.McGill.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.simulation
From: chess@McRCIM.McGill.EDU ()
Subject: Wanted : Simple Circuit Simulation Package
Originator: chess@kadumu.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Organization: McGill Research Centre for  Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 08:50:37 GMT


WANTED
 -------
Circuit Simulation Package, Sparc Station/Unix environment, Public Domain 
Can be called from a C/C++ program.
Purpose:  Building a simple circuit tutor for teaching troubleshooting 
skills to users.
Simple implies (resistors,capacitors,inductors,transistors,diodes,ac/dc sources
, low frequency)

All pointers will be appreciated.


Sandy
 -- 
___________________________________________________________________________
|	K.Sandrasegaran(Sandy)		|  Tel : (514) 398-7159 /398-5857 |
|	McGill Research Center for -    |  Fax : (514) 398-4470           |
|	  Intelligent Machines (McRCIM) |  email: chess@mcrcim.mcgill.edu |



------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.simulation
From: simulation@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu (Moderator: Paul Fishwick)
Newsgroups: comp.simulation
Subject: SIMULATION DIGEST V30 N8
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:11:45 GMT
Reply-To: simulation@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu

Volume: 30, Issue: 8, Sun Jan  3 00:11:23 EST 1993

+----------------+
| TODAY'S TOPICS |
+----------------+

 
[GENERAL INFORMATION]
  System Simulation in PR China

* Moderator: Paul Fishwick, Univ. of Florida
* Send topical mail to: simulation@bikini.cis.ufl.edu OR
  post to comp.simulation via USENET
* Archives available via FTP to bikini.cis.ufl.edu (128.227.224.1).
  Login as 'anonymous', use your e-mail address as the password, change
  directory to pub/simdigest. Do 'binary' before any file transfers.
* Simulation Tools available by doing above and changing the
  directory to pub/simdigest/tools. 

 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [GENERAL INFORMATION]


------------------------------


To: comp-simulation@uunet.UU.NET
From: "David Herron" <david@twg.com>
Subject: Usable AT compatible keyboard
Sensitivity: Personal
Encoding:  42 TEXT , 2 TEXT 
Conversion: Prohibited
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Inc., Palo Alto, CA
Conversion-With-Loss: Prohibited
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:11:17 GMT

Hi all!

I am wanting to get a PeeCee (AT) compatible keyboard which is laid out
as Ghod hath intended.  Specifically:

Control above Shift, not below.

Escape in upper left corner, not in a random place elsewhere.

Don't strongly care where caps lock is, so long as it is NOT where
control SHOULD be.

There should be an ALT on each side of the space bar.  But if there's
only one it should be to the left of it.

The DELETE and BACKSPACE keys are an interesting problem.  I prefer to
use DELETE to delete characters (again, as ghod hath decreed) but am
able to use either ..  In any case *one* of them should be in the upper
right and it's great if both are.  (Like on the Sun type 4 keyboard, but
not necessarily).

The backslash & vertical bar key should be in a reachable place; not some
weirdo random place.


Failing this ...

I believe that Keytronics keyboards can be easily reconfigured by pulling
keytops and flipping switches.  At least their Amiga compatible keyboard was
(I think) able to do this.

A mutatable keyboard would be acceptible.


BTW, this is for an HDS X terminal in case that happens to make a difference.
It shouldn't since I've tested it with two different keyboards (where's
some wood??) indicating it's compatible.


Apologies to people who might feel this doesn't belong to some of the groups
it has been posted in...


<- David Herron <david@twg.com> (work) <david@davids.mmdf.com> (home)
<-
From: tjhendry@mcs.drexel.edu (Jonathan Hendry)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: "Codex" 9600 bps modem
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:06:38 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

I have a chance to buy a "Codex" 9600 bps modem for $25. Apparently,
it's some sort of mainframe data modem.

Has anybody on the net used one of these? If you have and could supply
me with some sort of information about them, I'd be grateful.

I am especially looking for information about cabling, dialing, compatibility.

I would really love a manual, if anyone has one.

Thanks!

Jonathan Hendry
tjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu



-- 
Jonathan W. Hendry
Drexel University College Of Information Studies
Anderson Financial Systems "Programmer-in-Exile" :)
hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu (No NEXTMail :( )
From: goren@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: PBS and PROCITE information
Date: 28 Dec 92 10:05:51 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

Hello!
     I need information on company named PBS (probably  american company
dealing with computers or software) and software called PROCITE.
    thanks
      S.GOREN
From: bob@consult.UUCP (Bob Willey CDP)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Help: 256-Gray Scanner
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: bob@consult.UUCP (Bob Willey CDP )
Organization: CCS Enterprises, Inc. - Easton, MD

In article <92357.63484.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>I am trying to install a Mouse Systems 256/Gray Scale Hand Scanner into
>a clone.  There is a proaudio spectrum 16 set to 220H DMA3 and IRQ7.
>I've set the scanner to 270h, 2E0h, 370h, and 3E0h and to DMA and/or IRQ
>that will not interfere with the sound board.  It won't work properly.
>It writes temporary files (albiet very small) but won't put the image on
>the screen.  Any suggestions?

Not sure if it is the same problem, but we recently had similar problems
with a Logitech 256 ScanMan.

What it turned out to be was the bus speed on the 486Sx25 was set too
fast.  In the AMI/BIOS we had to set the Bus Select to 2/4 and everything
went fine.  In other words it is a timing problem with some of the older
designed cards that were never designed to handle the newer higher performance
PC's that are available now.

Hope this helps.

-- 
>.. Bob Willey, CDP          ..  |  ..  uunet!consult!bob  bob@ccs.com   ..<
>.. CCS Enterprises, Inc.    ..  |  ..   Office: (410) 820-4670          ..<
>.. P.O. Drawer 1690         ..  |  ..      FAX: (410) 476-5261          ..<
>.. Easton, Maryland 21601 ......|......... BBS: (410) 476-5098 ...........<
Newsgroups: comp.misc
From: paiz@Ingres.COM (Erwin del Pinal)
Subject: mass duplication of software on various media types...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:35:17 GMT

Hi, I'm looking for a book that deals with mass duplication of software 
programs on various media platforms (tk50, QIC, DDS, reel).A book dedi-
cated completely on this subject would be ideal, but any information that 
is pertinant would be helpful.



Erwin Del Pinal	
paiz@ingres.com 
Hayward, CA
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Help: 256-Gray Scanner
Date: 23 Dec 92 01:38:04 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

I am trying to install a Mouse Systems 256/Gray Scale Hand Scanner into
a clone.  There is a proaudio spectrum 16 set to 220H DMA3 and IRQ7.
I've set the scanner to 270h, 2E0h, 370h, and 3E0h and to DMA and/or IRQ
that will not interfere with the sound board.  It won't work properly.
It writes temporary files (albiet very small) but won't put the image on
the screen.  Any suggestions?

I'm not here too often, so E-mail would be appreciated. I'll post the
answers.



1  My opinions are mine alone.  They may or :   Address all flames to:
2  may not be shared by my employer or the  :  ccolvin@lmsc.lockheed.com
3  owner of this system.                    :       Chris Colvin
4  My .sig is only 4 lines long  ;-)        :         ><IXOYE>
Newsgroups: comp.misc
From: johnj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (John A. Johnston)
Subject: Planning obsolescence
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:40:53 GMT


Can anyone offer organizational plans or policy that they use to
amortize their workstations, PC's terminals (eg. workstation Y
will be sold for scrap or valueless in 4.1 years).  Something
that would help to define the cost of a workstation per year for
budgetary purposes.

Any references to recent (1-2 years) journal articles would also be
appreciated.

Thanks,
-johnj
Newsgroups: comp.misc,biz.comp.software,biz.comp.services
From: uemura@isl.melco.co.jp (Joe Uemura)
Subject: UNIX high-availability software
Organization: Mitsubishi Electric, Ofuna, Kanagawa, Japan
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:36:55 GMT

I am looking for high-availability software products for UNIX. In particular,
I'm interested in finding out more about Fusion's HA software, and a 
product called Twinix from Potentially Products(?). I'd appreciate 
any information you can give me regarding these products and/or companies.
Also, if anyone know of any other HA products for UNIX, please let me
know.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Newsgroups: uk.test,comp.misc
From: tdc0010@dircon.co.uk (Ben Knox)
Subject: test
Distribution: uk
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:38:14 GMT


test
-- 
Ben Knox		tdc0010@dircon.co.uk      ...!uknet!dircon!sys0001
Newsgroups: comp.misc,alt.culture.usenet,alt.net.personalities,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF)
Subject: Re: A Paper on the Social Forces Behind the Development of Usenet
Followup-To: comp.misc,alt.culture.usenet,alt.net.personalities
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 07:01:47 GMT

In article <75526@apple.apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Eeyore's Evil Twin) writes:
>tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.192501.181@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>>*plonk*
>>No.    No no no.
>>Let's try this again.
>
>Tom, you may not have noticed. You're arguing with Ken Aroomdee. Logic won't
>work. Try hallucinatory drugs or something, it'll have a better chance.

I should mention at this point that anyone who's interested in visiting
Baltimore for the purpose of sawing Ken's head off with one of those
plastic knives you get at cookouts and picnics should send mail to one of
the following two addresses:

Joel Furr at jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu
Jim Miller at jgm@ais.org

Our plans are only tentative at this stage but we're looking at a
mid-February trip to Baltimore.  

Contact us now if you're interested in coming along.

Newsgroups: comp.misc
From: willittl@spock.NMSU.Edu (William  Little)
Subject: Parallel Transfer Cables
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:52:59 GMT



Does anybody know any company that sells Parallel Transfer
Cabels???

In case you don't know what they are, they are the cables
that hook up to the printer ports of two computers that 
have some wires crossed, and allow data to be transfered
between computers.  The most popular user of these is the
program LapLink.

We're trying to add a link-up feature to our real-estate
program.  Transfering data from notebook to desktop, but
can't find any cabels.  We did buy a printer switchbox, and
crossed the wires ourselves, but that won't work in the 
commercial market.  

This addition is selling as a low-priced upgrade to our
current program, and buying printer switchboxes and modifying
them by hand will hack at the price..  also, building the 
cabels ourselves will cost extra.   

Any companies out there manufacture them already??

Very curious!

Joseph Good
Programmer / Technical Assistance
Sanderson Data Systems
Tel: (505) 525-9189
Fax: (505) 523-4246
Email:  jgood@scf.nmsu.edu
        jgood@freedom.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.misc
From: nigel@cs.city.ac.uk (Nigel Mitchem  - System Support)
Subject: Scanner/OCR surveys?
Organization: City University
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:55:41 GMT

 I need to buy a scanner/OCR after Christmas. Until I see
what's about and what`s possible, I can`t even put together
a draft spec.
 Does anyone know where there is or how I can get hold of a survey
of those machines on the market?

 Much obliged.

Nig

--
 Nigel Mitchem, 
 Computer Science, 
 nigel@cs.city.ac.uk
From: tjhendry@mcs.drexel.edu (Jonathan Hendry)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Codex modem
Date: 23 Dec 92 05:53:12 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I've decided to go with a
"normal" 9600 bps modem.


Jon

-- 
Jonathan W. Hendry
Drexel University College Of Information Studies
Anderson Financial Systems "Programmer-in-Exile" :)
hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu (No NEXTMail :( )
Newsgroups: comp.misc