From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Catharine MacKinnon, Playboy and feminist propaganda (Was: Value of...)
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:30:08 GMT
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:

>>You're probably not gonna like this answer.
>>Suppose I was your boss.
>>Suppose somebody else had to spend time in the area where either 
>>calendar was.
>>Supoose that person found either calendar objectionable enough to 
>>complain that
 
>Suppose none of this was true? I have problems when supposes must be 
>stacked too high. 

Then his argument wouldn't apply and there is no reason to flame him.

>For the record, no one else works in my cube, and most of the time,
>neither do I. Suppose she found my jets calendar objectionable, for whatever
>reason, why should this be a firing offense?

Well, inability to work well with colleagues is not exactly *desirable*.
I'm not saying that I would definately fire you out of hand, but
disputes should often be mediated by the boss, IMO.

>The point is that she will arrange -her- envirnment to suite her tastes,
>as will I. How is it that she is not responsible if I do not like her
>(what is the name of the mens pinup calander?) male pinup calendar?
>
><light goes on over my head> Chippendales!

Who ever said that this is a one way street?  If you have spend a lot
of time in -her- environment and it offends you, it *is* courteous of
her to remove it.  

Often, employers make rules to enforce curteousness, too.

(I did ask a secretary to turn off a boiling pot pourri thing once,
because it bothered me.  She did.  She was nice.)

>>People do get offended by the damndest things.  
 
>Fact - that is their problem alone, most of the time.

Both statments are darn true, no?
 
>Fact - harrasment laws make me legally responsible for her tastes, no matter
>how prudish or different from mine. They give me no such power, harrasment
>laws are sexist from the get-go.

Ah -- I see -- got an axe to grind about some particular legislation?
Fine, grind it.  Sexist legislation should go.  What's the legislation
that bothers you?  Got the text?  *That* would be something to flame
over, not Lynch's post that he thought people should treat eachother
with respect.

>>For the record:  I DON'T WANT PORNO CENSORED!
>
>A bikini calendar is NOT PORNO, and I was -not- in any way asking/referring
>to PORNO. 

Okay, he didn't claim a bikini calendar is porno, so relax.

>This question was asked a bit ago, and a female poster (whos name
>escapes me) responded with a story about playboy centerfolds, completely
>missing the point and the question. It seems to some extent, you have done
>the same. 

Playboy centerfolds do hang in some offices -- and what we are talking
about is [possibly] offensive material in work envinonments, right?
So what are you saying?  That your calendar is okay, but that Playboy...
well now, *that's* a different issue?  How is it different?  Is it, um,
*offensive*??

>>I do think a person who HAS to be in an area for work deserves courteous
>>behavior from co-workers which INCLUDES removal of offensive pictures or
>>whatever.
>
>And as I stated, these calanders are at my home. 

Great.  Then why worry?  No one can make you take them down, except for
maybe an offended spouse. :)

>If anyone does not
>like them, they can feel free to leave. The possibility exists that
>someday if harrasment laws are extended, they may have the right to
>dictate my enviornment at home as well. 

Pshaw.  Unconstitutional.  You own your home.  Your employer owns your
work.  Big difference.  

(Yes, it's true -- employers CAN tell you what to say, what *not* to say,
when to say what AND fire you for not doing so... at least while you're
on their time.  Sheez -- talk about first ammendment violations!)

And, once again, you've brought up legislation, which is not what Lynch
was talking about (pardon me, if I misread.)

rini
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.men