HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dane Spearing <dane@cardinal.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Coming out? + de-muffining
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78B24FFB10100E3@teton.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:27:27 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 01:36:58 GMT

In article <C1Du4J.CnM@news.udel.edu> Zoe Antonia Velonis,
eowyn@brahms.udel.edu writes:
>Do what makes you feel comfortable.  It's good that you don't feel like
you 
>need to advertise.  If there wre no stigmatism, that's probably how all
of
>us would be.

Thanks Zoe!  That's the best advice I've heard yet!

>*zoom*  *pounce* *hug* *nibble* *hug* *nibble* *munch* *hug*
>Welcome!

And thanks for those, too!  ;)  *nibbles* back to ya'!

In article <1993Jan25.110909.5587@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> Ciaran McHale,
cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie writes:
>Why do people feel it necessary to have society sanction their
>relationships by getting married? And if they *must* get married, why do
>they feel the need to "advertise" it to 30,000 readers of a newsgroup?

An interesting point that I hadn't thought of actually.  I suppose that
I don't really care if society "sanctions" my relationship.  However,
there
are certain legal and financial "advantages" to being married (which is
by no means a good reason to get married).  Unfortunately, such "perks"
are not
yet available everywhere to MOTSS couples (but Clinton might have
something
to say about that -- we hope).

As an interesting side point, Stanford University has instituted a
"domestic
parters" status for any couple, regardless of sex or marrital status.
You may declare someone a domestic partner, and live in "married" housing,
and if one partner is a non-student, s/he will be granted "spouse" status
within the University (ie - library priviledges, use of athletic
facilities,
spouse insurance, etc.).  I'm happy to say that a number of both gay and
het
couple have taken advantage of this!  Way cool.  Now if the government
could just
follow suit...

                          Dane "the ex-muffin" Spearing
                           dane@cardinal.stanford.edu
                              AOL: DaneRS@aol.com
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: A philosophical question...
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:18:47 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
>tonyd@lclark.edu (Anthony Davis) writes:
>>TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler) writes:
>>>In article 18007, cvadrgih wrote :
>>>>Which is worse?
>>>>     For a guy to dump his boyfriend for a girl, or
>>>>     For a guy to dump his boyfriend for another guy.
>>>If the guy doing the dumping was gay then obviously the
>>>first one would be worse, although it would still be
>>>an ego-smasher if the person was bi!
>>the fact that one has a choice is telling...
>>it must be difficult, having to choose who you dump your boyfriend for
>>to hurt his feelings less...
>
>Here we see the *true* advantage to polyamory: When you dump your SO, both
>you and sie know that it's because there was something wrong/uncomfortable
>about the relationship between the two of you alone, not that 'there was
>someone else'...

I would have thought the real advantage was that you have someone else to
support you when you're involved in a relationship breakup?

(And I would have thought a disadvantage would be that someone might dump
you *because* you were polyamourous and they weren't).


/jon (disclaimer: I know nothing about polyamoury really)
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_    And they covered up the sun        //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /   until the birds had flown away...  // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/___________________________________///////////  //
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tonyd@lclark.edu (Anthony Davis)
Subject: Re: Orcish respectability (was Re: What to do at a bar?)
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:16:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.192416.1095@midway.uchicago.edu> ss19@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>> orc@sybase.com (Orc) writes:
>>> daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) lies outrageously:
>>
>>If something's worth doing, it's worth doing outrageously. :-)
>>
>>>Respectable.  Umm.  Orcish definition?
>>
>>Well, to answer that you have to tell me what the Orcish definition is.
>>oes "Orcish" have a standard meaning that can be applied to any situation,
>>or does it have a specific meaning in this instance?
>
>   It's a pretty standard prefix, meaning "this doesn't mean what
>you might think it would mean."  Like my definition of vanilla,
>sedate and demure...
>
and still... umm... tasty?            

>                 ____
>   david parsons \bi/ orc@sybase.com
>                  \/

after all... one can only do with so much nutmeg...

see ya,
tonyd

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 07:59:50 EST

bvntyler@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Very [Bi]Sexual Professional Amateur Nudist!) writes:

> >> cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace) writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I really like Delirium, that totally anarchic mixture of wild, crazy, 
> >>>steampot bubbling happiness yet an underlying and deep insecurity 
> >>>strikes a chord in me. She's pretty and weird and crazy. That's what 
> >>>I like in Delirium. 

I like Delirium too, because she's lovely and so are her frogs.  Yes, 
weird and crazy and heartrendinly vulnerable. 

But she isn't my favourite of the Endless.  I like Dream and Death.  ANd 
I must admit to a secret fondness for the sinister Desire.

Did anyone read the appearance of Desire in the current storyline?  
Delirium goes into a bar looking for Death.  It's a varied , punkish 
crowd and she sees a girl who from the back looks like Death, and 
approaches her.  It isn't Death, and the girl thinks Delirium is making a 
pass.  Delirium freaks, and starts screaming, "I want my sister!  I want 
my sister!"

Everything thinks she's on some bizarre drug and is solicitous but 
doesn't know what to so.

Desire, in masculine attire - white tux, looking like something out of 
James Bond - comes up to take a hand.  He/she looks very spiffy indeed, 
in this scruffy crowd.  Someone says, "Who are you?"

"Sometimes," says Desire, in that cool, impesonal way she/he has, "I am 
her sister."

Death fans should look at her new mini-series, "Death: The High Cost of 
Living".  SHe becomes mortal for a day, and meets up with a suicidal boy. 
 It's great.

Namaste,
Elizabeth

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bryant@icd.teradyne.com (Wayne Bryant)
Subject: Re: Gender and Bi Groups
Reply-To: bryant@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:37:56 GMT

In article 891@harlqn.co.uk, daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>Could you clarify what you mean by "genders" here?  Are you referring
>to karotype, or what?  Some TS's refer to themselves as a third sex,
>are they included in your definition?

I had to look up the word karyotype in the dictionary.  I always thought
there were two Kayro-types: clear and dark, but that both are basically
composed of corn syrup (I'm trusting that you also have Kayro on that
side of the pond and will understand this feeble joke...).

In any event, if my understanding of the word is correct, then I was
equating gender and karyotype.  Biversity also has TV people, but I'm
not sure whether there were any TS's at that time.

>It's interesting to compare this approach with the approach that Alan
>uses in his glossary of terms about sexual and gender identity.  Would
>either of you like to comment?

Hmmm...  I don't have Alan's definitions handy.  I saw an early draft, but
I don't remember what he said about gender.  Comments, Alan?

					Wayne


Xref: sparky soc.bi:19270 soc.motss:58568 pnw.motss:161
From: dms4s@helga13.acc.Virginia.EDU (Sailor on the Seas of Fate)
Subject: Re: Greetings from a friend
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:24:13 GMT

In article <9301211034.AA27342@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>:    As my friend can attest, I'm also a fan of erotica.  I enjoyed reading the
>:recent post about Lile's first time making love to another woman. I have
>:written 2 (fictional) stories about such encounters, but they pale in comparison
>:to first-hand accounts.  I really would like to hear real-life stories from
>:bisexuals, recounting any kind of sexual experiences.
>
>Does that include from the guys, by any chance?
>
>G


Certainly. Ever read The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty by A.N.
Roquelare? I have found that good erotica is effective regardless of
the sexes of the characters.  I am perfectly open to stories from men
and will treat them with just as much respect as stories from women.
What is most important to me is the PASSION involved, not necessarily
the mechanics.

Dave
dms4s@virginia.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: j_babylo@oz.plymouth.edu (Jessica L. Babylon)
Subject: Re: Appearances on and off the net (was Re: Why I read a.s.a.r)
Summary: Moi aussi, mes amies
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 11:25:06 GMT

In article <16B5C62FA.ESMITH@SUVM.SYR.EDU> ESMITH@SUVM.SYR.EDU writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.121946.14730@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
>gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
> 
>>
>>So am I mistaken?  Do people reading this think they're more outgoing
>>on the net than in person, or less so, or about the same?
>>

I realize alot of you here don't know me that well, even for netters,
but i've been on for a bit, i use the program ICB which is like a
party line for the phone...in any case, a lot of times really good,
strong friendships and even relationships can be formed over the net,
and since i've met quite a few(at least a dozen in three months) and
have gotten along famously with all but one(who promptly assaulted me
or else we would have been good friends i am sure:( and in talking
with them they have assured me that i am the same person they fell in
love or like with on the net...not thta i needed them to do that, but
for those who questioned if i was like i seemed to be, i had back ups
to vouch for me...i am just as wild and crazy and flirty and sometimes
serious in living color as i am in electron-life:)


>   No, my life is not dull. Here on the net I'm much the same as I am
>in RL. I enjoy myself, enjoy making others laugh, and am willing to
>do almost anything to make someone else have a little fun. At 40 I expect
>I have a few more years of my childhood left. *grins*
>
Hehe, sounds like my kinda 40! But tis true, my life, at 19 is not
dull in the least, i love life, immature or dealing with a crisis, and
i like to think i help others enjoy it too. 

>   As Always,
>     Timber
> 
>   Most likely to be found in a video arcade or on a merry-go-round as
>anywhere else.

Most likely to be found anywhere you would possibly not look, as
opposed to anywhere else:)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible
worlds, and the pessimist fears that this is true" - James Cabell
**Jesica L Babylon Goddess of Scandalous email: j_babylo@oz.plymouth.edu
"PMS: Just before their periods women behave the way men do all the
time" - Lowell Stone
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Hey! Hello?
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:52:02 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:

>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

>>/jon (what is this obsession with bakery products anwyay?)

>Tarts? Cream puffs? Crumpets?

"Would you like some toast?!"

--
Stef, been on the net too long to be a muffin anywhere
stef@apple.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: ST:Deep Space Nine, possible bi?
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:19:31 GMT

robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael) writes:
> Knowing that Star Trek likes to be controversial, it is possible that a bi
> story may pop up, especially since there doesn't seem to be much of a reason
> to have dax as one particular orientation.

Actually, I thought it would be interesting if something happened to
the doctor along these lines, esp after the second episode.  I mean,
you _expect_ things along these lines with Dax...

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Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: Talking about sex (was Re: Party Face, Net Face)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:35:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.185513.27281@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.114850.8718@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1993Jan25.040631.12858@midway.uchicago.edu> ss19@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>>   Perhaps there's a certain amount of discomfort because those
>>>people feel that they can't adequately describe their experiences
>>>to someone who hasn't been sexual?  
>>
>>Careful!  I said I was a virgin, not that I hadn't been sexual.  (Here
>>I go, fending off all the old misconceptions again... sigh...)
>
>OK then, Guy: what do you mean by "virgin"?  My simple off-the-cuff
>version definition is "someone who hasn't had sex" - but that opens
>the can of worms about what constitutes "sex.  And you say that
>saying virgin to you doesn't equate with saying not having been
>sexual.  I think I'd like clarification, if you'll give it.

Yes, I haven't had a sexual experience with another person.
That doesn't mean I haven't "been sexual", as though I've
never had any sexual feelings, or never masturbated.  Why
do people persist in talking about sexuality as though it
were only about having sex?

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gripe: soc.motss
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:00:51 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan21.203741.17574@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> 
 as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii) writes:
>... why is the atmosphere [in soc.motss] so hostile and chilly?  
>Admittedly, this is the sweetest, friendliest group I know of, but the 
>general aura is as different as--forgive the cliche--night and day.

Different strokes for different folks.  I've been in soc.motss since
net.motss began -- eight, nine years? -- and I rather like the atmosphere.

Several soc.motss regulars are bisexuals who avoid soc.bi, because what
you find sweet and friendly, we find ... cloying.  I don't mind fluffy
nuzzle-lick-snuggle stuff _in person_, and I see a number of soc.bi
posters in person every week.  Online, though, I find it most definitely
Not To My Taste.

I might add that the worst soc.bi generally has to deal with are the
clueless straight boyz who Just Want to Watch.  Over in soc.motss, we
get to defend all of queerdom from the real hard-core net.phobes.  Makes
a bit of difference in our attitudes, no doubt.

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "Please help avoid the clutter so we can stay concentrated on what counts:
   perfume, dog sex, horrible puns, parade dates, and desultory political
   activism."  -- Jess Anderson, on soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: st891487@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Gender and Bi Groups
Reply-To: st891487@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:23:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.182411.13079@icd.teradyne.com>, bryant@icd.teradyne.com (Wayne Bryant) writes:
>
 [Oodles of stuff deleted]

> I've had sex with people of three genders.  Does that make
>me trisexual?  Perhaps the older (now archaic?) ambisexual was more
>properly descriptive.

How many people of three genders are there in the world? 
On a less flippant note, the way you're using the word "gender" appears to be
the result of a combination of sexual orientation and, well, gender (i.e. male
homosexuals are a different gender from male heterosexuals). It is probably
just me, but I've never heard this before. Then again, maybe I'm just not up on
current social anthropology...in any case you're probably right, but it's still
confusing as hell. 
>
>					Wayne

  -XImena
From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Why I won't "dance" (was Re: Why I read a.s.a.r.)
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:10:07
Organization: savage hackers
	<1993Jan18.220831.13448@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan19.204710.2964@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan20.192441.20687@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com
In-reply-to: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk's message of 20 Jan 93 19:24:41 GMT


In article <1993Jan20.192441.20687@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:
> You misunderstand -- I really do want to learn to dance, and I *am*
> a "boring nerd who doesn't know how to enjoy himself" -- yet.
>
> I think this is because you can't dance if you are always trying to hold
> your sexuality inside, out of sight (uptight, not at all all right).
>
> I sometimes manage to dance when I'm on my own [laughter], because
> then I'm not having to hide, sexually, from everybody.

  Hmm... you seem to equate dancing with sexuality.  While there are
people that can definitely convey that when they dance (my SO, for
one...), most people don't look incredibly sexy, at least to me, when
they are dancing... what they *do* look like, at least most of the time,
is that they are having fun.  If you are afraid of dancing, go to
someplace that has an absolutely packed dance floor and crawl into
someplace in the middle, where no one can see you except the one or
three other people around, and the person you're dancing with, if that
applies.  If you have no clue about how to move or what to do, just
discretly watch someone, male or female, that you like watching dance,
or are doing something that you think you could do, and follow their
lead (i.e. copy what they do.)  I never found that dancing by myself was
a very good way of learning -- I got too self concious.  After a while,
though, you can just kind of close your eyes and move -- no matter what
anyone says... there's no right and wrong way to dance, other than if
you enjoy it or not.  If you're not having a good time, relax...
*smile*... dancing can be a hell of a lot of fun, and, if you want to
toss in sex or sexual attidutes in there, go for it. I dance everywhere
now -- supermarkets, down the aisle of movie theatres, in the park...

  Heck, I feel like dancing now... anyone know of a good (e.g.
non-industrial) club in SF?

 -- d
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst)
Subject: Re: Sigh... hugs please?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:30:26 GMT

Well, thanks for the suggestions... THe problem is, at midnight most of
my vreative activities are frowned upon.  I'm a trumpet/piano player, and 
such things are frowned upon late at night in dormitories.  I'd go out
and play Ultimate, but it's a bit cold, and one man Ultimate games can be
pretty lame.  Writing would have involved being in the same room as my room-
mate and I can't deal with that.  
	I'm getting better.  I may start charting these "episodes" to see if
	there's a regular pattern to them.  Just a hunch.  Thanks all.

					Steve L.

-- 
| Stephen C. Litterst           |*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*|  
| kyraan@bach,udel.edu          |       More man than you'll ever be...   |
| litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu    \   More woman than you'll ever get.     |
|_guido@gnu.ai.mit.edu____________\ ______________________________________|
From: bvntyler@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Very [Bi]Sexual Professional Amateur Nudist!)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: what is sex (was Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexuals)
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan26.152422.10907@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk writes...
>In article <1993Jan25.183116.26693@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>> [ .. ]  Is getting a stiffie when the cat curls up in
>>your lap sex?  
>>
>It's a very subtle reaction in which the body tries to throw the cat off,
>because it knows you could be doing something far more useful if you could
>get up and go, but all your voluntary systems are taken over by the wish
>not to disturb the cat, because it looks so peaceful and content, and is
>making this pleasant purring sound -- so the body has to use a conveniently
>available appendage which is under sub-conscious control, et voila!
> 
>--
>\S

*Grin* Interesting Notion! 

 *I* think that its a simple case of something warm and soft, gently vibrating
pressing up against your crotch thats the cause... *grin* not implying, mindYou,
that this means you're partial to cats, just warm, moving things! 

--Dave
*******************************************************************************
def: faggot; a small stick. | "I ain't no Faggot!            I'm a LOG!"
                            |
B1 h f- t w- g+ k+ sv m e+ r|  "Innocent Until                             
                    ?       |                proven                            
                            |                      WANTON!"                   
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: carl@sscl.uwo.ca (Carl Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Unashamed....
Organization: Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab., U.West.Ont.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:55:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.071153.15468@cltr.uq.OZ.AU>, yal@lingua.cltr.uq.OZ.AU (Yvette Lian) writes:
> Well, folks... this is a completely, utterly unashamed request for birthday
> greetings of any kind!  I turn 19 on the 31st of January (yippee).. I
> figure this post might have propagated by that stage :)

Happy Birthday Yvette!!!  A friend of mine, who I just learned is bi, has
her birthday Jan. 31 too.
 
> I've just gotten home (well, I got home a few days ago) from my Senior NCO
> course for cadets... and, well... *she grins shyly and looks at her
> feet*... I duxed it... 80 people, and I duxed :)
> 
> *grins some more and looks around shyly*
> 
> (notice also the unashamed requests for e-congratulations for doing so
> great on her sergeant's course)

No problem ...
Congratulations!!!  I (barely :)) remember the party I had when I received
my CPO1 rating.  If your course was anything like mine, you deserve more
than an e-mail congrat.
 
> cu later!
> *hugs* to all who want/need them..

Hugs to you too.

*******************************************************************************
*  See how the heart reaches  *  Carl Kaufmann   *    Trust is the ultimate   *
*  out instinctively, for no  * Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab *    aphrodisiac.            *
*  reason but to touch.       *    U.West.Ont    *                            *
*        -Kate Bush           * carl@sscl.uwo.ca *       -Me                  *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,alt.homosexual