HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bencze@isl.Stanford.EDU (William J. Bencze)
Subject: Slope gliders - recommendations for novices?
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:15:29 GMT


  There's been a bit of discussion here about high-performance
slope ships, especially the Sig Samurai, but how about a bit of
net.wisdom regarding good aileron-and-elevator slopers for
beginners?

  I currently fly an Oly 650 off the slope and have a great time,
but when the afternoon winds come up, I have to add *tons* of
ballast to get the beast to penetrate at all.  Landing, too, is a
chore without aileron control; the roll response is too slow for
my dihedral ship in the turbulence near the hill. (anyone who has
flown at the Coyote Hills site in Fremont, CA, knows about the
afternoon gale conditons there)

  So, any recommendations for a beginning sloper? I'm not looking
for a ship capable of doing 720 degrees/sec roll rate or
anything, but a machine that's stable, relatively docile, but
able to do some basic maneuvers, such a rolls, inverted flight,
and other "simple" things.

  I'm currently looking at:

   1. Coyote. (Bob Martin)
   2. Kam-u.
   3. Super Dragonfly.
   4. Super Cheeta.
    
  Any of these too fast? too twitchy? too easily breakable?  Any horror
stories? Are there other ships I should be looking at?  Thanks for the
info!

-Bill

--

----
 William Bencze                           bencze@isl.stanford.edu
 Department of Electrical Engineering          (415) 497-4210 (H)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: "corey groves" <corey.groves@canrem.com>
Subject: slope gliders
Reply-To: "corey groves" <corey.groves@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:52:07 EST

DB>I was thinking of buying a Sig Ninja as a second slope plane, my first
  >being a Bobcat that is a little under the weather
  >after a failed attempt at an inside loop.  Any pros or cons on this
  >kit?  Will it take regular servos?  Any other recommendations for a not-too-

I've watched some ninjas flying out at the ski slope near here and they
are certainly agile gliders.

--
Corey J. Groves  | (416) 648-3711          | "Looking down you realize that
Mohawk College   | corey.groves@canrem.com | your never too old to do 
3yr Comp Systems | corey.groves@crs.com    | something really stupid"-W.M.
---
  OLX 3.0 31-1580  10 PRINT "Waiter, There's a bug in my LOOP": GOTO 10
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: dsprouse@n3igw.pgh.pa.us (Dan Sprouse)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Rc Gas Engines
Keywords: Engines, gas
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:26:10 GMT
Organization: Sprouse Consulting, Oakmont, Pa.

Hello world,
	I am new to this group, my name is Dan Sprouse I have been toying with
RC cars for about two years now and I love it.   I have had a couple electric
cars and I now am ready to move into gas RC.  If some folks could post some 
info on gas engines I would realy appreciate it.  If you like personal E-mail
or just post it to the net.  Belive me, nothing can be to general.  

						Thanks in advance,
						Dan Sprouse
==============================================================================
                           Daniel P. Sprouse
  __________          Lower Valley Ambulance Service       -----|-----
  | L.V.A.S.|_o_        Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania        *>=====[_]L) 
  |   151   |---\_               EMT/FF                      --"-"--  
  =(*)-------(*)-'   Internet dsprouse@n3igw.pgh.pa.us                   
		Discliamer: MY opinions are mine and mine only!
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Slope Gliders
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:39:10 GMT

dbraun@cad636.intel.com (Doug Braun ) writes:


>I was thinking of buying a Sig Ninja as a second slope plane, my first
>being a Bobcat that is a little under the weather
>after a failed attempt at an inside loop.  Any pros or cons on this
>kit?  Will it take regular servos?  Any other recommendations for a not-too-expensive intermediate slope plane?

>Also, I noticed a plane, a Sig Samuri, in the shop that I could not find
>in any 8-month-old ads or catalogs.  Is this a new plane?  Just wondering,
>but it's a little over my price range.

The Samurai has been out for a few months. It's a nice fast slope ship. Even
though it's a bit more expensive I'd advise buying it. The fiberglass fuse
takes a lot more punishment than the typical balsa-and-ply fuse.

BTW, if anyone is planning to build the Samurai, a couple of pointers:

1) The angle of incidence of the wing with respect to the fuse, stated
to be something like 11/16 " below the top of the fuse at the trailing
edge, is *WRONG*. It should be at least 1/4" more than that. With the
angle per the instructions the Samurai will do a very nice dive straight 
into the ground. Be ready with full up elevator!

(of course, small errors in the alignment of the tail surfaces with
respect to the fuselage can affect the angle of incidence as well)

2) In the wingeron mode (two servos moving the wings, no moving tail
surfaces) the aileron travel is correct as recommended, but I'd increase
the elevator travel by at least 50%. This means cutting longer slots
for the driving pins, dangerously close to the canopy edge, thus
weakening the fuse. Consequently one should relocate the holes for
the driving pins and the wing joiner about 3/16" below the plan
location, and alter the ply stiffeners accordingly.

I've flown my Samurai in winds above 30 mph, and had a blast.

Regards,
       H. Biesel
From: sbixby@cup.portal.com (Steven W Bixby)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Hobby Lobby Sport 500
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:30:50 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

<helicopter purchase plans, deleted>
>rudder,  This may be my way in.  With such a low entry cost I might even be 
>able to afford a few repairs!! (ATTN STEVE BIXBY) :) :>..  

That's me! :-)

>	 I know that this machine does not have collective, although it can 
>be purchased with it, or as an add on, but that doesn't bother me too much 
>because I don't think I'm going to get into chopperbatics, and autorotation 
>as a begginer is probably an oxymoron.  ( I might be way off here, 
>Helicopter people let me know!)

Autorotation clutch is usefull as a beginner, even... it will keep the
engine from slowing down the rotor disk every time it quits, enough that
you can set it down gently enough from head-high or so - I'd get it if
you can.  Fixed pitch, however - it's actually more difficult to learn
to fly on.  The lag time involved for when the engine spools up or down
is disconcerting - you don't get immediate response.  And you end up
getting 'behind' on controlling the thing.

>	The question here is, is this little bird worth the money?  How does 
>it hold up?  I notice that most of the parts are metal and they claim that 
>ball bearings are standard throughout.  

I seem to recall a review suggesting that a person could fly this thing
reasonably well, but I NEVER hear about people actually flying them.  Being
from Hobby Lobby, I doubt you will be able to get parts except for mail
order, and HL may be out of stock often, if it's a low volume seller.

>	Has anyone flown or built one of these machines?  Are parts 
>available?  Any info would be great. 

I haven't....

>Hobby Lobby also offers an electric Hughes 500D for $189 less $30 motor and $
>60 battery.  I imagine this might not be the best machine to learn on, but 
>electric heli-flight seems very intruiging.  

Same comments apply here, as far as I'm concerned.

>Any suggestions, comments?

I would still recommend the Shuttle ZX - low initial cost, low parts cost
(unless it explodes in a boom-strike!), EXCELLENT flying machine for
it's cost.  YOu could get a new Shuttle (kit) with OS32FH, 5ch Futaba
heli radio, and gyro for about $650... is that too much?

Alternatively, look for a used-but-cared-for machine, especially a Shuttle.
Parts are widely available for the Shuttle; I have three local sources for
parts; if one's out, another will have 'em.

I vote "SHuttle ZX".  :-)

 -swb- (Steve Bixby, sbixby@cup.portal.com)

Steve E.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: "corey groves" <corey.groves@canrem.com>
Subject: slope gliders
Reply-To: "corey groves" <corey.groves@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:54:45 EST

DB>I was thinking of buying a Sig Ninja as a second slope plane, my first
  >being a Bobcat that is a little under the weather
  >after a failed attempt at an inside loop.  Any pros or cons on this
  >kit?  Will it take regular servos?  Any other recommendations for a not-too-

I've watched some ninjas flying out at the ski slope near here and they
are certainly agile gliders.  You may find it is a bit of a handful and
they don't fly well without steady lift.
Corey
--
Corey J. Groves  | (416) 648-3711          | "Looking down you realize that
Mohawk College   | corey.groves@canrem.com | your never too old to do 
3yr Comp Systems | corey.groves@crs.com    | something really stupid"-W.M.
---
  OLX 3.0 31-1580  10 PRINT "Waiter, There's a bug in my LOOP": GOTO 10
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: kstaton@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Ken Staton)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:48:11 GMT
Subject: Help: Info on video camera
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc

I wish I had saved the note a while back about sources for
small/light-weight video cameras mounted on model aircraft.

Could someone please e-mail the manufacturer(s) and model(s)
to me.  Thanks in advance.

Ken
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: fwing@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen James Morris)
Subject: Airborne Video
Summary: Crash captured on video 
Keywords: Video transmitter
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 06:25:41 GMT

Another airborne video story

Recently I've been experimenting with a video transmitter system for airborne
movies. My set-up allows a color video camera to move on gimbals
so that the view can be changed from the ground. I've flown the set-up on 
hang gliders and liked the result. This weekend I tried it for the first 
time on an RC model. In order to minimize cost, I purchased a Lanier Slo-
Comet and modified it to carry my 3.5 pound 'video pod'. After numerous 
test flights and range checks I flew the airplane with the transmitter 
turned 'on' and the results were great. My friends gathered around the TV set
and VCR (running off of my car battery) to watch as I cruised around our 
flying field. My second flight was a bit more interesting. After flying around 
for 5 minutes I started to do some low passes. Since I'd been flying mostly 
helicopters lately, my depth perception for the large Slo-Comet at 200 yards 
was very poor. One of my passes resulted in hitting a steel street light post 
at the edge of the field, destroying the airplane. Of course, all of this was 
captured on the VCR.  If I had been watching the TV screen while flying I would
have seen the pole clearly and known I was further from the field than I 
wanted to be. At least none of the electronic gear was damaged. Watching the 
video tape of the crash is quite fun because when the airplane hits the pole 
the left wing is instantly sheared off, resulting in a rapid roll to the left.
The model then impacts a tree (while still rolling) and the tree branches 
shut off the transmitter switch just prior to impact with the ground. 

Steve Morris
Stanford, CA



Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mwp@ms9.mis.semi.harris.com (Mark W. Poole)
Subject: Re: Checking Airborne Batteries
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:09:25 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Reply-To: mwp@ms9.mis.semi.harris.com
Organization: Harris Semiconductor

Rich (rbono@necis.UUCP) wrote:
: 
:  I don't use one of these.  Instead I came across a unit called a "GO-LIGHT"
: (I forget the name of the manufacturer). These sell for about $10.00.  It
: consists of a bi-colored LED (red and green), and a very small circuit board.
: 
:  Rich

Rich, my attempts at email bounced.  Can you please post the
manufacturer(address and phone number) for the "go_light".  Its
exactly what I'm looking for, and the mail-order houses don't
have it.

Thanks,

Mark.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Slope gliders - recommendations for novices?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:34:57 GMT

bencze@isl.Stanford.EDU (William J. Bencze) writes:


>  There's been a bit of discussion here about high-performance
>slope ships, especially the Sig Samurai, but how about a bit of
>net.wisdom regarding good aileron-and-elevator slopers for
>beginners?

>  So, any recommendations for a beginning sloper? I'm not looking
>for a ship capable of doing 720 degrees/sec roll rate or
>anything, but a machine that's stable, relatively docile, but
>able to do some basic maneuvers, such a rolls, inverted flight,
>and other "simple" things.

>  I'm currently looking at:

>   1. Coyote. (Bob Martin)

This is the only one in this list I've flown myself, and while it is
a very maneuverable glider, it may be a bit much to handle. It can take
a lot of abuse, and is easy to repair.

I'd still
recommend the Samurai, which can be hot, if built with zero dihedral
and large control throws, but can also be forgiving if built with around
3 degrees of dihedral and reduced control throws. It will slow down
and fly in light winds, and it is quite rugged.

Regards,
       H. Biesel
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mmcevill@mitre.org (Michael A. McEvilley)
Subject: Go Light Manufacturer (was Re: Checking Airborne Batteries)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:39:00 GMT

Here's the scoop:

Go Light Onboard Battery Voltage Monitor
ZZ Enterprises, Inc
631 Machester Rd
Norristown, Pa, 19403

1-215-539-7476

The unit has a 15 ma draw when operating

Cost is: 
$21 with connectors (Deans, JR, Futaba, Airtronics)
$16 without

See Model Aviation Sept '92 issue, p. 143 for a picture and short 
description.


Michael A. McEvilley
mmcevill@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: peny@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch (Peter Nyffeler ,x4399)
Subject: New C/L (control-line) FAI rules 
Reply-To: peny@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch
Organization: ETH-Zuerich, Physical-Chemistry-Lab. - Switzerland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:23:41 GMT

FAI has changed some ruels for F2 (control-line) clases.

Here the main changes:

For all clases. 
	The model must no longer be build the Pilot. 
	Now you can spend your money for this ultra light chines acro models.

Speed F2A
	Max. wingspan 100cm. For assymetric models measured from engine center line to
	wing tip.

Acro F2B
	A new scoring system is sugested.

Team-Race F2C
	"Oh good how to translate this?"
	Max. projected aera of exhaust opening, zylinder..? (in german 
	Zylinderlaufbuchse), crankshaftcase or (if used) silencer exhaust 60mm2.
	By engines with side- or front-exhaust the pistontop isn`t allowed to be seen
	outside the model.
	Grouper up to 2cm outside of wingtip ar allowed.
	"How happy I am do not flying Team-Race!"

Combat F2D
	Glow engines shall use a singel simple chamber silencer of min. internal 
	length 40mm and max. int. length of 89mm; int. dia. min. 20mm and max. 40mm;
	with tail pipe max. int. dia. 8mm. Any other shape of the same volume limits 
	(4 to 32 pi cm#) is acceptable. Total length of the exhaust system from engine
	port (xylinder liner) to system outlet not to exceed 15cm.
	"Original sound trak of FAI protokol"

P.S. Source for F2B "Pipe"-engines and accesory
 	Aero Products, Randy Smith, 1880 Scenic Hwy., Snellvile, GA 30278 
	Tel(404) 979 2035

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
						  __________
Peter Nyffeler					 / ___  ___ \
ETH-Zuerich, Physical-Chemistry-Lab.		/     \/     \ 
Switzerland					|  ___  ___  | Soaring
e-mail:peny@ppc.lpc.ethz.ch			|     \/     | Club
fax: ..41 1 252 34 02				|  ___  ___  | Zuerich 
tel: ..41 1 256 43 99				\     \/     /  
						 \__________/ 
					     + Control-line modell enthusiast
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	


Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: egdorf@zaphod.lanl.gov (Skip Egdorf)
Subject: Re: Slope gliders - recommendations for novices?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:40:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.231529.18537@EE.Stanford.EDU> bencze@isl.Stanford.EDU (William J. Bencze) writes:

>     There's been a bit of discussion here about high-performance
>   slope ships, especially the Sig Samurai, but how about a bit of
>   net.wisdom regarding good aileron-and-elevator slopers for
>   beginners?
>
>     I currently fly an Oly 650 off the slope and have a great time,
>     ...
>     So, any recommendations for a beginning sloper?
>     ...
>     I'm currently looking at:
>
>     1. Coyote. (Bob Martin)
>     ...

I would recommend that you consider two other planes as --> Trainers <--

Try one of Bob Martin's Katie-IIs. They will fly fast enough for what you
want to learn, and they have the charming feature that they are indestructible.
If you are currently flying a polyhedral floater, the Katie-II will teach
you how to use ailerons. (I posted a long summary of my second Katie-II's
construction last summer. If anyone wants it, ask...)

Or, for a completely different style, try one of Culpepper's Chuperosas
(the aileron version, not the polyhedral.) This little thing has a very wide
speed range, and flys better than just about anything I have found. I enjoy
my Chup a lot, and I think that it would be a very good transition plane
from a polyhedral floater to an aileron sloper (that works well in light
lift as well.) The down side is that the fuselage, being light, takes damage
on rough fields. It is far more fragile than the Katie-II. Not that it is
particularly bad, just that the Katie-II is so indestructable.

The biggest difference is that the Chup, with coupled aileron and rudder is
about as easy to fly as your Oly-650. The Katie-II, while not as nice a
sailplane as the Chup, will be a much better aileron trainer because it
requires you to learn to use the ailerons and the elevator to guide the
plane where you want to go. This is the key (IMHO) to being able to step
up to more sophisticated ships.

					Skip Egdorf
					hwe@lanl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Subject: YS 2 strokes and Robart Ultra fueler
Organization: Computer Power Software Group Pty Ltd
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:58:07 GMT

Hi there
I have been running a GP CAP 21 (60") with a YS 45 2stroke for a month or two
now with a ROBART ultra on it. From memory i have set it up so that the vent
line opens to atmosphere when in the fill position, so it lets the pressure out
after a run, and you dont get any fuel pushed out the fuel line, and obviously 
seals the vent to hold pressure when in the run position. I have had no running
problems at all! when you open to the fill position, you do get some fuel spray
out the vent hole behing the fill nipple. to prevent this spaying onto the 
paintwork, i bent a piece of 1/16 or 3/32 OD brass tube and pushed it into the
vent hole so the that it points down and away from the fuse, and doesnt get in
the way of the fill tubing going on the nipple (well not much anyway). the
amount of tubing this needs inside the cowl is scary to look at, but it all
seems to work ok - I'd need a diagram to reassemble it though! Haven't had a
dead stick yet. BTW, when I bench ran the YS, I left it plumbed up to the tank
for a week once, and the tank held pressure until I opened the valve - thats
a reasonable pressure seal test I thought.
jp
Lines: 46
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:14:20 MST
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: $stevee@sasb.byu.edu (Stephen Eldredge)
Subject: Re: Super Decathlon crash

In article <92352.135900WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>Path: news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uunet!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!wolpert
>Organization: University of Maine System
>Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 13:59:00 EST
>From: <WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
>Message-ID: <92352.135900WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
>Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
>Subject: Re: Super Decathlon crash
>Lines: 33
>
>
>Bloom wrote that the guy who wrecked the Super Decathlon was a reckless
>builder, as well.  In this case, it was the reckless flying that did him
>in.  The pilot (Let's call him Frank) is a cantankerous and strongly
>opinionated retired gentleman whose many brushes with the pits have been
>a source of suspense and entertainment for anyone in the area.
>
>Frank brought out the plane one breezy Saturday morning.  I looked it
>over, and it appeared to be very nicely built.  One of the clubs best
>flyers checked out the plane and took it up for a first flight.  He
>then landed the plane and told Frank that it was underpowered, and the
>CG was a bit off, and that he should bring it back on a calmer day.
>Frank, whose own opinions and denial mechanisms are a bit unreasonable
>saw that the instructor flew his plane quite nicely, and so could he.
>He gassed up and took it off.  Takeoff and climbout were a bit shaky,
>but he got it up to altitude, and managed to keep it under control.
>He then decided to have a little fun with it, with some tight turns
>and loops.  His last, and most spectacular stunt was an inside loop
>from what looked to be insufficient altitude, with insufficient air-
>-speed, and perpendicular to the wind.  The plane stalled at the top
>of the loop, and fell into a textbook spiralling spin.  Frank could
>not recover and within three seconds, it was all over.
>
>I would like to reiterate that this crash was not the fault of the
>airplane.  It was total pilot error (i.e. stupidity).  What really
>scares me now is that Frank has expressed an interest in becoming an
>instructor.  It'll be a hot day in December.....
>
>Seth Wolpert
>Bangor R/C Gulls
>
>
Thanks for the clarification.  I was wondering whether I should cross the 
Decathalon off my one-of-these-days-I-ought-to-build-that-one list.

STeve E
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mikem@iex.UUCP (Mike McKinney)
Subject: Re: Super Decathalon 40
Organization: IEX Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:45:10 GMT

In article <1gl8p3INNnnp@rave.larc.nasa.gov> chaffin@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Mark Chaffin) writes:
>In article <92350.124228WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <WOLPERT@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>|> Well, chalk up another wrecked Decathlon. 

>Well, mine will be rebuilt.  I've always liked the plane.  Of course,
>I always liked the Piper Cherokee until I crashed mine.

	I've only been flying about 1.5 yr. and thought a Decathlon would be 
fun and probably will get one.  However, this fall I got a Great Planes 
Cherokee.  First Great Planes kit I've built - I'm impressed, a very good 
quality kit and I'll probably buy more of their kits.  As for the Cherokee,
this is a great plane - I love flying it!  Mine is powered with an OS 46 and 
has plenty of power.  It climbs, loops, rolls, tumbles...  Fellow flyers can 
tell I'm having lots of fun when I'm flying it.  But it does have sensitive
sticks so I've moved the CG forward a touch and added expo to the elevator.
The only gripe I've heard at the field it that it doesn't fly very scale ;-).