HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esper@cs35b.cs.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Genre...
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:24:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.150101.89620@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>
>The attack / defense aspect is a part of magic that I have never seen a good
>set up for. I like the idea of spells and counterspells. Counterspells should
>be rapidly cast so that the defender can recognise a threat and respond. For
>example: X tosses a fireball and Y throws up an ice shield in response, which
>neutralises the fire.
>
>My favourite concept of wizards includes spell and/or power tossing combats
>with spells bouncing off spell shields.

I've seen two systems with something along these lines:

Ars Magica - Magical skills are divided among forms (what the spell will
manipulate) and techniques (how it is manipulated).  Spell shields are
generalized into a parma magica (Latin for 'magic shield', as I recall) whic
will attempt to cancel any incoming spells.  If your parma fails, your score
in the appropriate form provides some defense (a fire mage is hard to burn
because of his great understanding of fire, etc).  The final option is to
fast-cast an improvised spell to protect yourself (you use Creo Ignem (creat
fire) to throw a firebolt at me, I can use Perdo Ignem (destroy fire) to put
it out before it gets here or use Rego Corporem (control (human) body) to
shount myself 5 feet to the left so it misses or...).

Lace & Steel - Sorcery deals with two elements, Light and Dark.  At the start
of combat, you can put cards from your hand (all L&S combat is played out with
cards) into a spell sheild which can be reinforced later in the battle.
Sorcerous attacks are resolved by the attacker playing one card face up and
(optionally) additional cards face down which must all be in the same
element.  The defender then plays a number of cards in the opposing element
to stop the attack.  The number of cards each combatant can play is limited
by skill and considerations of fatigue.  Anyhow, each players cards are
totalled and if the attacker has a higher total, the defender's shield is
hit.  Cards from the defender's shield can then be used to cancel any
remaining strength in the attack, and if anything is left after the shield,
the defender takes damage.

esper@ima.umn.edu
From: dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Fantasy Genre...
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:43:54 PST
Organization: BBS

Knowing that D&D and AD&D are pretty much a staple of the fantasy genre and the
following other titles :

Arcanum                    Arduin Adventure                 Ars Magica
Chivalry & Sorcery         Conan                            Darksword Adv.
DragonQuest                Elfquest              Empire of the Petal Throne
Fantasy Hero               Fantasy Wargaming                Hawkmoon
High Fantasy               Ironhedge                        kabal
Lands of Adventure         Lords of Creation     Man, Myth, and Magic
Mega Rolplaying System     MERPS                 Palladium Roleplaying Sys.
Pendragon                  Powers & Perils       Prince Valiant
Rolemaster                 Runequest                        Sandman
Stormbringer               Swordbearer                      Talislanta
Thieve's Guild             Tunnels & Trolls                 Warhammer
Witch Hunt                 Ysgarth

(And any others I may be missing from this list).....

What makes a consumer choose one system over the other?  I used to play various
fantasy genre games, then switched to superhero's (in-between where to many
systems and games to list)....Finally, I decided to write my own system.

While it has absolutely nothing at all to do with magic, the other day I
started thinking about spell use and came up with an independant system that
none of the above use.....my question that I pose to all of you:

Based on your personal preference (not what you think other's might think), why
do you play a particular game?...Is it the system (ie. familiarity)?...The
world in which the game takes place?...The ease/hardness of play?...Spell
usage?...Combat?...Monsters/Demons/et all?

You see, while my main goal is to have this game (MARAUDER:2107) out by mid-
1992 (Anime/manga-based..non-magic)....I now possess this magic system which is
just burning at my soul.  (I truly think it's innovative, easy to use, and
allows for customization of spells)....What do I do with it?

Error:  The release date for MARAUDER: 2107 should have read mid-1993 not 92.

------------------

Please respond here so that everyone can "hear" your views.....Note, This is
not to cause a flame war regarding systems and companies....Your viewpoints are
your own...there should be no need to fear retaliation.  :)

dlaird@terapin.com
From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Huge Robots as weapons, are they valid? Does it matter?
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:58:03 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Richard Pieri/Stainles writes:
> JF> So, we spend billions of dollars developing a 'mech that's only
> JF> effective for cowing natives?
> 
> Veltyen has an excelent point. Which would scare *you* more, 45 tons of M1
> Abrams rolling at you at 50mph, or 45 tons of humanoid, walking steel
> bearing down on you at 50mph? I'd be more afraid of getting stomped on like
> a bug than ground under steel tracks.

What it is, is a _silly_ point. If you're going to build an army of 'mechs just
to scare primitive natives, I wager that you'll lose any war.

Except a war against primitive natives of course. :-) But then, it would be
cheaper just to roll in with a mechanized division. Much cheaper.

I was among the first to point out that Battletech is a fun game, but I'll
argue any attempt to justify it technologically, militarily or economically.

--
J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
-----------------------------------------------------------
*BRRRRAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPP!*
"MEIN LEBEN!" <thud>
"You shoulda thought about that when you signed up, buddy." - Valaria

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: New Name for Flesh Golem wanted!
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.043223.546@njitgw.njit.edu> cxc4107@hertz.njit.edu (Christopher Lee Cavender) writes:



   Okay all you creative net-types! I need a new name for Flesh Golems! And DONT
   give me varations on Frankenstein! There is no reason to name a medivail monster
   after a 19th centuray fictional creation!
						   Chris


Living statue?

Ack!
--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS: Playing yourself
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:10:27 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

Caveat # 1:  If the group is made up primarily of graduate students and
professionals, a "play yourself" game is probably going to be an impressive
failure.  I speak from experience here.  What you will probably end up with
is a party of noncombatants; is this what you want?

Suggestion # 1:  Use some sort of squat lift as the basis of strength.  You
may not be able to military press 100 lbs... but can you find SOME way to
lift it, and still be able to move?  I'll bet you can.  That is, if you MUST
have some concrete basis for ST.  If not...

Suggestion # 2:  Build the characters by committee.  This only works if you
know each other somewhat...  Allow each person to propose a skill level for
each stat, skill, etc.  Everyone else then says yes, no, maybe a little less,
or whatever.  This might take a while with GURPS, but it's probably less
painful than poring over resumes.

Suggestion # 3:  When a player tries to use an "unrealistically high"
default skill, presumably it will be obvious whether the player actually
knows something about that skill or not.  If not, don't allow it.

-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

This is a properly spelled version of the mimetic signature virus.  Copy it
into your .signature file and join in the fun today!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Subject: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:40:42 GMT

In article <14f4p3INNn0l@early-bird.think.com> laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes:
>In article <54565@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>>There are some more broken bits, but these are three of the worst.
>>GURPS Supers has good ideas, but the problems have yet to be fixed with it.
>
>True, there are parts of the system with problems, but (again) I don't
>think that means that the entire system is broken, just that a few things
>need to be fixed.  It's certainly got no more broken bits than any other
>comparable system -- there's a hilarious section in the Champions rules
>with examples of things not to allow which is a rogue's gallery of rules
>which break when pushed to extremes.

While I personally like GURPS a lot as a system, I also find GURPS Supers
unplayable as written. My problem is that
a) there are too many characters that are impossible to build without
modifying the system
b) the system is just TOO unbalanced (look at the example characters, some
walk around doing 5 or 6 dice of damage, some to 18 dice, the vast majority
have no reasonable defences except for the few that are unhurtable). Almost
all of the example non brick heros would be lucky to survive an encounter
with  a 100 pt combat monster with a gun.
c) its just too deadly without using all sorts of optional rules.
d) too many of the costs are just flat out wrong in comparison with each
other (some of the limitations are especially amusing).
e) there are few rules to handle the interactions of weird powers. For
example, as far as I can recall, a "Martial Artist" sort has NO defence against
an area effect power.

In a campaign that I was running I found myself adding more and more
house rules (mostly derived at least conceptually from Champions) until I
finally decided that the way to go was to change to Champions powers while
keeping GURPS skills.

As written (using no optional rules), GURPS Supers is only going to work in
a VERY gritty street level campaign where death is a very common occurence.
Either that, or all of the heros are going to use some of the loop holes
(ablative focus defenses springing to mind). I found that, as a GM, I just
COULDN'T have my villains fight to the best of their abilities unless I was
willing to kill half of the characters each night.
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:41:49 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

You're right.  You've shown us that there is ONE number which is wrong, and
then proceed to say "If so many numbers are wrong that I spend my time
changing nearly all of them, why should I bother to buy the official system
and not my own?"

Well, I haven't seen that many bad numbers in there.  Let me point out, 
however, that it is much harder to come up with good game mechanics than
it is to come up with good costs... that's why you should "bother" to buy
the official system.

-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
From: mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark A. Baxter)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Cyberpunk games, a recommended source material
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:14:01 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


   I just started reading Michael Crichton's RISING SUN and would
strongly recommend it to anyone playing a cyberpunk game with the
Japanese as "the great conquerors".  It gives a good background on
Japanese culture and mannerisms particularly here in America.  It's also
very fun to read.  I should warn you that it is NOT a fair treatment. 
Crichton sets out to scare the bejeezus out of Americans as to how close
Japan is to overwhelming us economically and since he's a good author,
he does a convincing job.  Hugs, Mark
Mark Baxter              |One is for sorrow,
<mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>   |Two is for joy,
ext #4690                |Three for a girl,
                         |Four a boy,
         I               |Five is for silver,
       Have              |Six is for gold,
         A               |And Seven's a secret
      Secret             |Never to be told.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:36:20 -0400 
From: "Mark A. Baxter" <mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: SR or T2000, or what's that rigger doing here?

   One of the many problems I've encountered in SR is what I would call
the "Arms Race", Characters will gravitate towards the most destructive
weapons to deal with deadlier opponents.  And when the upper end
includes most military hardware (lt. machine guns and Mini-guns) the
need to control the "Arms Race" can become pretty immediate.  This need
is not helped by the inclusion of characters armed with those same LMG's
in the shadowrun book. (The soldier and the troll I think, I don't have
it here at school)  
    And then you have the rigger, who is intended as either just a
driver (for those players who don't mind waiting in the car) or the
tank/assault helicopter driver, for the GM's who don't mind shifting
from cyberpunk to Hammer's Slammers role-playing.  I HAVE
oversimplified, riggers are a little more flexible than that, but really
not much.  I just wanted to ask if anyone had ever played a rigger or
run a rigger and what the experiences had been.  Also, I wanted to bring
up the idea of combining the rigger and the decker into one character,
the TECH as a possibility.  Because it seems like deckers must spend a
lot of time sitting on their hands, waiting to get at the matrix, during
which time the rest of the team sits on *their* hands, as *that* is
played out.  
    For the arms race problem it's a simple matter to simply say "Oh,
and where do you plan to buy this Mini-gun/LMG/ammo for same, Lone Star
(or whoever) tries to keep a pretty close eye on that stuff."  But if
the game is already incorporating characters equipped with that, it
becomes much harder to say "no".
                        net.hugs.mark
Mark Baxter              |One is for sorrow,
<mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu>   |Two is for joy,
ext #4690                |Three for a girl,
                         |Four a boy,
         I               |Five is for silver,
       Have              |Six is for gold,
         A               |And Seven's a secret
      Secret             |Never to be told.
Organization: Junior, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:15:36 -0400 
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Genres
	<1992Jul21.021113.57379@cc.usu.edu>

Deep Six writes,

>I think it IS an inherent flaw in the game itself. Sure, I could say,
>``Well, those monsters aren't in European mythology, so I am making my
>own.'' Then I'd say, ``This world isn't historical, I'm going to create
>my own.'' Then I'd say, ``These character types aren't realistic...'' And
>so on, until all I'd be left with is a bunch of books filled with rules
>that I'd rewritten and changed, or replaced with portions of other games.
>So, yes, I think AD&D  is flawed in that way. Why change things about
>the game when you'll end up basically making your own game up? No
>offense to you AD&Ders, a lot of other games suck, too. 

I find it hard to believe that someone can enjoy a totally different
social setting and still dislike all trace of fantasy.  Haven't you ever
wondered what if?  What would happen if the laws that govern the
universe are a little more like we thought they were 1000 years ago?  Or
what would be the consequence if a few of the fantastic stories we told
ourselves were true?  Or maybe even what it would be like if the world
were totally different, and the land really was alive & did react to our
presence.

In other words, are your complaints with specific games or with the
fantasy genre itself?  If it is a complaint against the genre, what sort
of fantasy do you like?
From: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: SRUN: Skill web
Keywords: Shadowrun, SR, SRUN, SHADOWRUN
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:11:50 GMT
Reply-To: schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: schwarts@atlantic.cps.msu.edu

There are two 'loopholes' on the web. Is Cybertech to Biology 1 or 3 dots?
Psych to Socio 1 or 2? I assume you cant uturn around a slanted line, so the
values are 3 and 2?

How about Phys Sci to Biology...4 or 6?


-- 
Steven Eric Schwartz            "It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, with
(schwarts@cps.msu.edu)           treasures to satiate desires both subtle and
125 East Wilson Hall-MSU         gross.  But it's not for the timid."
East Lansing, Michigan  48825                           - Q, "Q Who"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Genres
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:08:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

\And besides that, there must be at least a little liscense taken with PCs (I
never said games had to be TOTALLY realistic, if that were the case, games
would last one session -- long enough for the charcter to die in just about any
system).

That assumes a style of gaming.  Legacy players playing AD&D-style hack&slash
style would likely die within minutes of the first encounter.  Players who
first try alternatives to combat can last for years--and enjoy every minute of
it.  :)

Highly realistic rules don't affect the gaming lifespan of characters; it
affects the playing style.  Playing the wrong style does affect the character's
lifespan.  >:-)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Point or Random Systems, What about both?
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:20:13 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joshua salter) writes:

> It seems to me that there should be systems which are designed for either
> point or random roll attributes, as each has it's merits.

There are always trade-offs.  Your point or random generation system gives the
players more choice, but is probably not quite as good at satisfying either
type of player as a system that is designed for the style they prefer (point or
random).  Furthermore, the more complicated the system (allowing both methods)
makes it more likely to have problems.  You'd likely produce a better product
if you spent your time on other parts of the rules, rather than on trying to
balance the two character generation techniques.


"Announcing the new super do-everything game system!  It does fantasy, it does
horror, it does SF.  It allows point and random generation.  It allows any sort
of magic and technology you can think of.  It allows simple combat resolution
and hyper-complex combat resolution--in the same fight!  It even includes an
Oracle database matrix for locating the appropriate rule.

Available as a set of 30 CD-ROM's."  :-)


What shall we call this wonderful product?  GURPS II?   O:-)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Media in Roleplaying Games
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:12:26 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <uc-chan.712006816@mcl> uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan) writes:
>In <1992Jul22.051857.25425@mks.com> rod@mks.com (Rod Currie) writes:

>>	I am just curious about how other GMs treat the media in
>>their campaigns, especially in Superhero games.   The superhero
>>genre is a breeding ground for media interaction...


	Oh, Gog, is it ever. 

	Of course as a GM I use the media regularly in any modern+ based
game, whether spy, cyberpunk, super, or SF based. But the superhero
genre is undoubtedly the biggest one. 

	As a player, that's the biggest HEADACHE of a superdude.  My 
characters are often the leaders of the groups they're with, but it's
the NON-leader characters I play that have generally caused the
worst problems... such as

	The Rat: superhero with powers based off the common rat, 
including a size-scaled "Rat's Bite" which was a projected field of
pure pressure force. A rat weighing 1/3 of a pound can exert 24,000
lbs/square inch. The Bite was scaled up in direct proportion to 
his weight -- and he could grow to about 30 feet. However, he never used
the full power of the Bite, and never used it on solid targets in
any case; he used it to create shockwaves. However, he WAS finally
pushed into a corner, grew, and used the Bite at full strength. The
shockwaves caused a major earthquake, caved in a secret villain's
base, and left a mile wide crater...

	IMPACT: Alien "brick" with an attitude, Impact was The Enforcer's
worst nightmare. The publicity he garnered for them was best described
as "abysmal"; Impact came from a multiversal empire with absolute crime
control (loyalty to your race and aversion to hurting it or its members
was GENETIC) and could not understand our clumsy system of "justice",
especially with reguard to criminals caught in the act. His most famous
quote: "Why give him a trial? SLAY him NOW! He won't cause ANY more 
trouble THAT way!"

	Our worst experience, though, was when a nosy reporter managed
to dig up a connection (in another game, this one based on the anime
show Saint Seiya) which (a) located one of the Saint's parents, (b)made
it obvious that the Saint had been kidnapped and abused. This led
to a trial of the entire Graude Foundation by a combined American/
Japanese court...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen)
Subject: Weapons (Big & Small vs. Medium)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Reply-To: mmadsen@ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 26 Jul 92 03:09:20 GMT

I've noticed that characters in RPGs never carry medium-sized weapons.  Either
they carry a rifle or a pistol.  They almost never carry a submachine gun.
In fantasy games they carry a broadsword or, perhaps, a concealable dagger --
never a short sword.

It seems that players in a game have no incentive to carry a "convenient"
weapon.  In the real world, commandos may use SMGs or shortened assault rifles
because true rifles would be unwieldly, but this never seems to be the case
in game-land.  Also, not even a swashbuckler will be caught with a smallsword;
a rapier is bigger and better.

If they're not carrying giganto weapons-of-death, they're carrying concealable
weapons: pistols, daggers, etc.  But they still don't carry anything medium-
sized.

What can be done to change this?

Matt Madsen
mmadsen@ics.uci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc