From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:06:03 GMT

In article <dfs.721934814@troi> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# In <1992Nov15.063905.14605@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
# makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# [Makowsky]
# ># >	What you do not seem to realize is that the "natural" workings
# ># >of the world are going to lead it to do things that will be worse than
# ># >whatever will happen if Kach's policies are adopted.
 
# [Skoll]
# ># How do you know?  Perhaps you'd care to supply proof of this bold
# ># assertion.
 
# [Makowsky]
# >	I guess you are right.  The world is just going to start to fall
# >in love with Jews, and this will be shown by how the world treats the
# >Jewish state.
 
# If that's the best you can do...
 
	Nope.  But it was all that was required.

# You have not shown that things will be WORSE if Kach's policies are not
# adopted.

	Oh, but I have.  Demographics alone will result in their being no
Jewish State.  That is worse.  Need I remind youabout the Middle East
arms race and Israel's ability to financially keep up?  How about
public opinion inthe US and Israel?  How about geopolitical realities?
How about economics (read OIL)?

# I showed, fairly persuasively, I think, that not only are
# Kach's policies racist,

	You did not provide one iota of evidence that Kach's policies
wereracist, unless we take your word that they are racist "because
they are racist".

# but that their implementation would have
# immediate, easily-forseeable and catastrophic consequences for Israel.  What
# you should do is somehow show similar consequences if Kach's policies
# are not adopted.  You can't do it.

	Not only can I, they are self evident to anyone with a nursery
school education.

# [Makowsky]
# ># >	That is not the point, although G-d has made certain promises
# ># >that if X happens he will do Y.  Unless you are willing to call G-d a
# ># >liar, we can force Y by seeing to it that X occurs.
 
# [Skoll]
# ># Maybe you should spell out exactly what you think "X" and "Y" are,
# ># rather than couching this in abstract language.
 
# [Makowsky]
# >	Why is this important?  Do you deny my claim?
 
# First of all, it's important because not everyone will agree on a specific
# "X" and "Y".

	That is not the point.  My answer here may seem to be a little
off, but that is bcause you deleted the whole argument I was in.
Whether or not everyone can agree on X and Y is totally irelevent to
the argument.  It is only relevent to its verification.

# Secondly, such reasoning is extremely dangerous because it

	I agree it CAN (but does not have to be) extremely dangerous.  But
thaty is also irelevent.

# leads to such disgusting statements as the Holocaust was caused by
# Jewish non-observance, something stated a while ago by an Israeli Rabbi.

	I agree the statement was disgusting (did he really say that?).

# And thirdly, such reasoning leads to the belief that people can force
# G-d's hand.  So yes, I deny your claim.

	Well, if you do not believe people can force G-d's hand, but G-d
has said that if you do X than Y will happen, is G-d lying?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish