HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Subject:  A Strand of Bigotry
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:50:17 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

[  Note:  A reader of soc.motss, who does not have the
ability to post, has asked me to post this for him.
When following up, please change the attributions.]
----------------------------------------------------------

For far too long, people on this group having been taking
this Gary Strand character more seriously than he deserves.
He has repeatedly claimed that he has the right to practice
bigotry.  He calls it "discrimination," but it should be
obvious to everyone that he is a particularly vicous bigot
who uses half-baked Libertarian rhetoric to rationalize his
bigotry. 

THERE IS NO RIGHT TO PRACTICE BIGOTRY. 

That self-evident truth should not need to be stated, but it 
seems that circumstances require that it be stated. Strand's
non-existent "freedom of dissociation" is precisely the same
rationalization that racists and their apologists used to
justify practicing racism.  

Strand's "arguments" are clearly
morally and intellectually bankrupt. He himself is clearly
devoid of honor or decency. In one of his more loathsome
postings he claimed "Yelling 'faggot' at someone shouldn't
land me in jail, nor should refusing to hire a gay for a job
I have." How much more proof of his malice is needed? Strand
arrogates to himself non-existent rights. He actively seeks
to excercise his malice at the expense of innocent people.
Yelling "faggot" might not be grounds for being thrown in
jail, but it IS a "fighting word." By all rights, yelling
"faggot" at someone should, if possible, result in immediate
physical retaliation. 

I am no pacifist. I have the right to
defend myself by any means necessary, and I will not hesitate
to exercise that right. I do not delude myself that yellling
"faggot" at me is any sort of legitimate "free speech." It is
a calculated attempt to deny my humanity and my right to
exist. I, for one, will respond as I see fit, if at all
possible. In the meantime, this Strand character should be
told in no uncertain terms, by as many people here as
possible that his verbal vomit serves no legitimate purpose
whatsoever, anad that he should immediately take himself to
talk.bigots or the equivalent.

Very sincerely,


Edgar J. Lawrence II
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian Visibility on Roseanne
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:09:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.35
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Nov11.195743.670@Princeton.EDU> sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:
>Yes, my favorite Morgan Fairchild quote is something along the
>lines of, "What happens if the virus goes airborne?"  She uttered
>this beaut in a fundie anti-gay propaganda video a few years back
>(referring to HIV, of course).
>
>Maybe this is her way of doing penance.

They had to be quoting her out of context.  When AIDS was relatively
new, Morgan Fairchild was one of the most outspoken celebrities
denouncing the AIDS hysteria.  She apppeard on talk shows (including
Larry King Live) opposite homophobes.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:22:28 GMT

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov11120016@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU>, corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:
> To tell an actor or any creative person not to bring something as
> intimate as their sexuality into their work is asking them to deny that
> sexuality.   If a director/writer/producer/etc does not like their
> expression of a piece, then they have the right to get another person
> for the part.  Those are the breaks.  But CMU's role is to refine a
> person's talent, not criticize their sexuality or ask them to change.

  What nonsense. Suppose, as an assignment, the student were asked to
play Billy-Bob-with-baseball-bat-gay-basher. A good actor ought to
be able to perform such an assignment, no? Bolts of chiffon flowing
from his mouth would hardly be a convincing rendition of ol' Billy-Bob
right? 
  An actors primary job is to portray the character that the script
has defined, not to work his personality into the equation. His 
personality is utterly irrelevant. If he can't keep it out of his
work, as necessary, than he is not qualified.
  Arne is dead on the money here.

> I find the implication that it is OK to force someone to deny their
> sexuality repugnant, and that is what I view as going on in Drama.

  But drama is absolutely about denying all sorts of things which
the individual actor is not. A good actor should be able to push
him/herself aside to play the roll. Providing we are talking about
mannerisms, this is not discrimination based on irrelevant characteristics.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com (Elaine May)
Subject: Re: Colorado embargo?
Reply-To: may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com
Organization: HP Corporate Engineering - Palo Alto, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:36:52 GMT

The Entropic one (entropy@world.std.com) wrote:
: Obligatory Colorado company to boycott-
:  Colorado memory systems-1-800-432-5858

Was just bought by Hewlett-Packard.  Again HP has a non-discrimination
policy which covers gay & lesbian employees. 

Not encouraging boycotts of HP products,
Elaine May                               Hewlett-Packard Corporate Engineering
may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com		         Palo Alto, California
------------------- Hatred and Bigotry are immoral ---------------------------
From: mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Addresses
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:09:49 GMT
	<1992Nov6.173937.2253@access.usask.ca> <BxDp4p.GGt@queernet.org>
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <BxDp4p.GGt@queernet.org>
rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:

>   In article <1992Nov6.173937.2253@access.usask.ca>,
>   broughton@lambda.usask.ca () writes:
>   |> Can we boycott Cray Computer Corporation as well since it is in Colorado?
>
>   a) Since they don't have any products, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Unfortunatly true, we have no product to boycott.  We also have a
sexual preference clause in our policy (I know, old terminology but it
was inherited from CRI which was one of the first companies to include
sexual orientation).  If you wish to write to Cray Computer and
express your disgust at the passage of #2, the address in my .sig is
correct.

>   b) Even if they did, you couldn't afford them...

I'm sure I could work out a discount for family members. ;-)  How
about $25 million for a 16 processor?

And so it goes...Randy

>   -- 
>   ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
>   rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
>   "Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
>								      -- J. Foster
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cray Computer Corporation                                Randy Murrish
1110 Bayfield Drive                                   mush@craycos.com
Colorado Springs, CO 80906                                719.540.4274
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:47:54 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Greg Parkinson (glp@fig.citib.com) wrote:
 
> Now run along and post to alt.bigfoot.  He exists,
> you know.  

Indeed he does!  I've seen him, and I have
the evidence to prove it.

At least, I know people who've seen him and
can prove it.  I mean, I've seen pictures of
people who've seen him and say they can prove
it.  Well, I've heard about people who've
seen him and can prove it but nobody believes
them.

The last time I was in Alabama, I heard a man
on the radio explain why Halloween was devil
worship and a tool of Satan.  He *proved* it.

And I can prove that 5% of the vote for Clinton
was delivered by the Militant Alien Facist Lobby,
with their agenda of recruitment and conquest
of America.  The invasion force is already in
position near Mars.  [I've seen the *pods*.]

I have *documented* *evidence*, but I'm not
going to do your research for you.

So there.

--jns
From: fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Boycott Colorado
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:11:58 GMT
Organization: National Computer Systems, San Jose, CA  95131

In article <1992Nov6.235604.17792@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>I'm well aware of both Coors' and Miller's courtship of the
>L/G beer dollar.  It's worth reminding people that Miller has
>its own corporate skeleton-in-the-closet: its parent, Phillip
>Morris, is a generous contributor to one Senator Jesse Helms.

That's true, but I assume that PM's support of Jesse Helms is
primarily because of tobacco subsidies rather than Helms' homophobic
stance.  These days much of our food is controlled by PM and RJR.
(sigh)

Chuck
-- 
Chuck Fisher                                        (800) 359-7997 Work
ncselxsi system administrator                       (415) 964-2819 Home
uucp:  ...!netcom!ncselxsi!fisher
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Teledildonics
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:47:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov5.042727.9420@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack
Hamilton) writes:
>Can one of you book fans tell me what the X at the end of the ISBN number
>means?

I think, but am not sure, that the last digit is a check digit, computed
according to an algorithm that can give a value of zero through ten, and
that ten is represented by 'X'.  (The first few digits denote the
publisher.)

--Rich
From: st923247@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Hellllllppppp!  I'm drowning!
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:29:17 GMT
Reply-To: st923247@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

I thought I would make it!  But I left my little computer over the weekend,
and now I'm back up to an astronomical 1381 messages still to go!  Sorry
to those of you who have written to me!  I'll try to write back as soon as
I catch up.  I'll make one last valiant effort before the week is through!
Wish me luck!					
						- Brian!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kurisuto@chopin.udel.edu (Sean J. Crist)
Subject: Discrimination by MBNA?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 23:04:05 GMT

MBNA is a company in Delaware which issues MasterCard.  Members of the Golden
Key National Honorary Society are entitled to a Golden Key MasterCard through
MBNA.

A few weeks ago, I heard that MBNA had fired a woman because she was a lesbian.
Can anybody document a pattern of anti-gay discrimination at MBNA?  If so,
I am going to try to get Golden Key to break off their connection with MBNA
(or, at least, I will discontinue my own MBNA Golden Key MasterCard).

Please respond by email since I can't keep up with the volume of postings
on soc.motss.

--Kurisuto
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: RE: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:24:39 GMT

  Why do I feel like Rex Harrison through this thread
listening to a Cockney bleat:
  "The Rine in Spine Folls Minely on the Pline"
Somehow, this seems oddly pertinate...

In article <12NOV92.10313491@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> Student #1 has one arm.  He has trouble playing Billy-Bob-with-baseball-
> bat-gay-basher.  Throw him out of the department.
> 
> Student #2 is a woman.  She has trouble playing Billy-Bob-with-baseball-
> bat-gay-basher.  Throw her out of the department.
> 
> There are going to be any number of roles that any actor just cannot
> play.  If students are failed simply because they cannot play a 
> "manly" character, students should just as readily be removed if 
> they cannot play a "feminine" character.  Picking on this one 
> characteristic is blatant discrimination.

  Well, maybe this cuts to the heart of the issue. Should the school
be making value judgements as to what is likely to be marketable?
I mean, if I'm giving a school a pile o' dough, I would sort of
expect them to make some effort at giving me a marketable skill.
  In acting, for males, the market is likely to be for your run of 
the mill straight 2.5 child het (being ultra to die for doesn't
hurt either :-). This is not discrimination, per se, it is the 
reality of the situation. Hollywood is brutal; if you don't fit
their mold, you are not likely to get work. Period.
  You can howl about the injustice of this all you like, but
Hollywood is just a mirror on the rest of our culture. The reality
is that a one-armed, or overweight, or effeminate male is going
to have problems. To the extent that he can overcome these
impediments is the to the better likelyhood he will succeed.
  Personal mannerisms are relatively easy to overcome for a 
talented actor, and IMHO, are something that any actor is
going to have to be able to produce. If a person cannot
even make this level of change, I would seriously doubt
their general ability. We're talking about breadth here. 
An actor needs lots of it, and not just in acting: flipping
burgers is probably  requisite as well. 
  A school has an ethical responsibility to not just take a
persons money even though it is obvious that the person is not
right for that field. It also has the responsibility to not
reject talent which may be crude but manageable. It is a
fine line though. 
  A school like CMU is trying to put out well rounded people: 
ones that will have a higher likelyhood of being marketable. 
If a person is painting themselves into a nitch it is the schools
responsibility to correct that. If the person doesn't think that
is necessary or is incapable of making the change a school like
CMU is probably not right for them.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Robertson wins one in Iowa [Homophobia as a weapon of sexism]
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:07:28 GMT

In article <9211051957.AA15849@client.its.rpi.edu> buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>
>
>        The amendment read: ``Neither the state nor any of its political
>subdivisions shall, on the basis of gender, deny or restrict the
>equality of rights under the law.''

Well, thank heaven they voted it down! It should have said "on
the basis of *sex*." Words have gender. People have sex. (No
snickering...)

We must take a stand for linguistic purity.
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay	    "Until there was rock, you only had God."
					--Ziggy Stardust

#include <disclaimer.h>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46516 talk.politics.misc:58760 ca.politics:9415
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:41:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <BOB.92Nov5190157@dolores.Stanford.EDU>, bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:
# I've noticed that when the subject of a boycott comes up, some
# conservatives, free-marketeers and/or libertarians are often vocally
# against the boycott.  This seems bizarre to me, for how can someone

They may be in opposition to a PARTICULAR boycott because:

1. It won't work.

2. The goal is disreputable (e.g., boycotting a business because
it hires black people).

3. It hurts the victims more than the oppressors (e.g., South
Africa).

# - Bob

Boycott is definitely the morally correct way to express your
upset.  The government is not.  Boycotts, however, require a
very substantial committment to the goal to work.  Adam Clayton
Powell, Jr., made very effective use of the boycott to end
discrimination in hiring in New York City department stores in
the 1930s.  It's a shame homosexuals can only think in terms
of a great big government, coming in to FORCE people to change.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
does lethal injection...
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Date: 9 Nov 92 06:44:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45500
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov8.184257.16733@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>                                         Just because it was created as
>a forum for X 7 years ago doesn't mean it will have to be a forum for
>X for eternity.

Perhaps you can elucidate what parts of the soc.motss charter
(conveniently explained in the FAQ, which I assume you have read since
you seem to want to change it) are no longer relevent and need to be
changed?

Even if discrimination of all forms ended tomorrow, there would still
be a need and use for soc.motss and most likely the charter would still
hold water.

You don't have to read or like everything here.  God gave you a 'k'
key, use it!

Why do we have to keep going through these darn "I don't think that
your topic is soc.motss.relevent.enough" discussions.  How can we even
begin to hope that discrimination from without will end when we are so
busy discriminating from within?

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jonc@ulysses.atmos.colostate.edu (Jon Cornick)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:12:11 GMT
Organization: Atmos. Science, Colorado State Univ.

In article <1992Nov12.023819.2789@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>tc> Tom Christiansen

>  This is tragic, of course, but I don't see the relevance of the suicide of 
>  a troubled man with what the true effects of #2 are going to be. 
>
>  People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons, some "honorable", some not, 
>  some that can be seen as "martyrdom", most not. This particular act is hard-
>  ly what I would expect from an individual disappointed at the passage of #2.
>  To imply, as the article does, and as the post attempts to imply, that #2
>  was somehow responsible for this man's death is emotional manipulation at
>  its worst. Quite frankly, I'm irritated and ashamed that his personal trag-
>  edy can be so cavalierly exploited for potential political gain. Aren't 
>  there better arguments available besides this one? It's cheap and tawdry,
>  and hardly respectful of the man.
 
This is a sad commentary on the value of a dying mans final words.  When will
we learn to respect the value of life.

Jon Cornick, CSU
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Where to buy some nice pumps....
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:11:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1d9e4uINNn7n@roche.csl.sri.com> <69021@cup.portal.com>
  <1ds27lINNfq1@roche.csl.sri.com>

Karl Elvis MacRae writes:
>1) the mindfuck of all my very straight friends reactionss was
>   worth it

AH, but just imagine the mindfuck if you'd done the drag *WITH*
your fur intact!!  (The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are
one of the more visible groups that do this sort of thing
routinely....)

>2) I discovered I really to have rather nice legs for a skirt.

They'd be nicer furry.

() ...I don't think drag necessarily has anything to do with
() wimmin -- it's about ladies.
()      -- Wendy Thrash
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:16:35 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <mattm-111192104825@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew
Melmon) writes:
|> The role of a drama school is to prepare actors for life on the stage.

The primary role of a drama school is to teach acting, not prepare professional
actors.

The primary role of a chemistry program is to teach chemistry, not prepare
professional chemists.
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Rockville)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gerbiling (Nelson, are you there?)
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:13:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.BxHFrH.IqE
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>OK, now you've got my curiosity (ahem) up.  When I heard this rumor,
>it was supposedly Rod Stewart; this must have been in '77 or '78.
>What other personalities have supposedly gone under the stomach
>pump?
>Aside from Jason Priestly?  :)

Let's see now.....I can remember hearing it about every member of the New Kids
on the Block, Luke Perry, and a bunch of others, but those are all I can
remember.....
-- 
Michael T. Chaffee        |****COLORADO BOYCOTTER******|  ______    
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Nationwide lesbigay political organization
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:26:56 GMT

> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>What do we have? There's NGLTF, which doesn't seem to actually
>initiate much (although I'd be glad to find out I'm wrong). There's
>PFLAG, but they aren't exactly a political group. What else?

We don't need any new organizations.  *Join* NGLTF!
Start up or volunteer at a local chapter.  Make it a
strong, *national* voice with an active *national*
membership.  Don't expect a handful of activists in
Washington DC or Los Angeles to work miracles on their
own -- though they do all the time.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------