HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Noam Chomsky (was Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:25:31 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep30.063728.43465@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> In article <26365@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
> > In article <1992Sep28.160926.43425@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> > 
> > =>Linguists aren't known for their political acumen.  
> > =>
> > =>Consider Chomsky.
> > 
> > File under "non sequitur".
> 
> Yep.  Under "n" along with "Nietzsche, Paglia as 20th-century
> American"...
> 
> Just a little discussion bait.  If you ever read Chomsky's political
> books, then hear him speak (on politics), you'll be amazed.  I've
> heard of "the paranoid Left" but I didn't realize it had such an
> illustrious champion.
> -- 
> *- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:

I've heard a lot of screeching criticism of Noam Chomsky.  My
natural inclination, from knowing his politics, was to assume
that the criticism was justified.  But just in case, I decided
it would be worthwhile to give him a chance...

The chance arrived.  In "Media Ethics," chapter 1 of "Manufacturing
Consent" was assigned.  The criticisms of his as "paranoid Left"
are completely confirmed.  

Sadly, this was the best of the three readings assigned this week.
The third reading tried to persuade us of the international
media conspiracy.  It inappropriately and without any purpose kept 
mentioning which owners of the international media cartel were Jewish.

The first reading was a Marxist history of American TV broadcasting
that was so full of obvious errors and fact, as to be laughable.
For example, that the monopoly capitalist sponsors of network
television decided to eliminate serious drama about the human 
condition and anthology format TV series in the mid-1950s because 
it interfered with the proper "feel good" attitudes required to 
sell products.  Of course, _The Twilight Zone_ started in 1958,
and qualifies as both anthology format, and serious drama about
the human condition.  _The Outer Limits_, less successful from
an artistic standpoint, also ran during the early 1960s, and
qualified in exactly the same way.

Oh yes, TV was suppressed by the big corporations in the U.S.
before World War II.  What I can't understand is why the BBC,
not a big corporation, couldn't get anything more than pilot
broadcasting started when WW 2 started.

But facts?  Hell, Marxists don't need facts -- they have ideology.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ppetto@NCoast.ORG (Peter Petto)
Subject: Re: gold bug variations
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:15:23 GMT

Leslie Kaelbling could stand it no longer, and felt compelled to decry
Richard Powers for trying much to hard to impress the reader with the
depth and breadth of his knowledge in _The Goldbug Variations_.

Leslie likes it when Pynchon does the same, because it doesn't seem
like he's trying..."he doesn't give a damn."  This amounts to pretty
faint praise in my book.

I hope I didn't give the impression that Powers is another Pynchon in
my posting -- I too, am tired of getting burned by blurbs announcing
the next Pynchon (or the next Dylan).

Powers is good in altogether different ways -- I think his work
embodies a caring & kindness that Pynchon is just starting to warm up
to.  If I remember right, TP has chided himself for just this same
trying-to-impress failing; and since I'm often guilty of it myself,
I'm not about to throw any such stones.

_The Goldbug Variations_ is worthwhile reading as is.  It's not
"Pynchon minus paranoia" or any other glib reduction.

---
Peter Petto          |       ppetto@ncoast.org
Bay Village, Ohio    |    73125.617@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 27 Sep 92 17:11:20 GMT

>jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>In article <jyc.717526696@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:

>>      [quoting a reviewer]
>>
>>           Paglia's success demonstrates that anyone with a tiny
>>	     sense of timing, a willingness for her work to appear
>>	     in Playboy, a mouth bigger than her brain, a narcissistic
>>	     disorder, a passion for self-promotion and an atrophied
>>	     ethical sense can make it big in this country.  

>This extract from Radner's review is aimed at rallying her, presumably
>feminist, troops rather than at convincing the uncommitted.

   Rubbish.  That interpretation is based on presumptions about the
author's intent drawn from her name and not on anything in the quoted
text.  The author personally may or may not have a feminist agenda, but
what the quoted passage clearly says is not that "Paglia is a danger to
feminists," but that "Paglia is a poser, a humbug, and a fool."

   (It is with some interest that I have noted in the course of this
discussion that conservatives' much-vaunted immunity to trendy humbug
seems to evaporate when the humbug is on their side of the fence.) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of school
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:36:00 GMT

Meg Worley writes...
>What got me throught high school?  *A Child's Garden of Pot* (I
>think that was the name -- I ditched my copy at some point along
>the way), the ever-handy guide to growing marijuana.  Bucked me
>up not only mentally but financially as well.
>Rage away,
>meg

+---------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
I discovered that the muhrrywanna was much more fun than the books written
about it.

But then again, that might just be me.













Priggishly,
Yours etc.,





SubGenius


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Literature students
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 12:08:04 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep29.080103.7103@nevada.edu> wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE) writes:
>... Hem-
>ingway was a bastard: he hated women, he hated Jews, he hated homosexuals,
>he hated blacks. He can be very one-dimensional in his portrayals.
>

	Hmmm.  I just finished _Portrait of Hemingway_ by Lillian Ross,
	and none of these things are mentioned.  Guess I need to 
	get out more.

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Shakespeare exits stage left
Date: 4 Oct 92 05:07:15 GMT
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway


Fido writes:
 
        Frankly, there's something slightlu embarrassing about Stratfords
        and Shakespeare Festivals in places other than England.
 
Francis is too easily embarrassed.
 
Later, he writes:
 
        Does my position make for good debate?
 
No.
 
        On another note, how do we like the new leaner meaner starker
        darker Mark?
 
If only I were a little leaner.  Mean?  Stark?  Dark?  We all have that within
us.  Some of us prefer to hide it until it is needed.  Surprise attacks are
more effective.
 
        I sometimes had a problem keeping my dinner down reading the
        old Mr Nice Guy stuff, so for me its an improvement.
 
I take no responsibility for the digestive problems of people who are
self-acclaimed as "Boring Old Farts."  Perhaps it was that Stilton that
was left over from the r.a.b.fest.
 
Mark
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N)
Subject: Andre Gide, The Immoralist
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:00:38 GMT

I've just finished reading The Immoralist, the first Gide I have read. I 
think it probably one of the better books I've ever found.

Please e-mail me if you have read/studied the book - there are a couple of 
things I would like to discuss about it.


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
David Frank                       {} "I imagined that Ted Turner had been  
<frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>   {}  offered the post of World President -
University of the Witwatersrand   {}  but had rejected it, because he didn't
Johannesburg                      {}  want to give up power" Arthur C. Clarke
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ps:	If you send me a picture postcard to the following address, I'll 
	send one right back to you.

			David Frank
			91 Mowbray Road
			Johannesburg
			2193
			South Africa
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Attractiveness (was: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:14:57 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <3OCT92.15052290@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> This is not just a "male thing".  If I had to choose between two
> equally qualified candidates, each with perfectly pleasant personalities,
> and one of them looked like Mel Gibson and the other like Pete Rose,
> I would choose the Mel lookalike.  Who wants to spend 8 hours a day
> working with (and looking at) someone who looks like Pete Rose?
> 
> On the other hand, if the Mel lookalike were less qualified than
> the Pete lookalike, or I had reason to believe that his personality
> were such that I might find it difficult to work with him, and I
> hired him anyway simply because he was cute, then I would be a fool.
> 
> Heather
> HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu

I bet nobody'll call you "scum" as wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au did Tim
Starr...
-- 
********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+
From: vks0@bunny.gte.com (Vijay Samalam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books in the time of Love
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:16:49 GMT
Distribution: world, local
Organization: GTEL

In article <9209301932.AA28340@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com 
(Mark Taranto) writes:
> Surely some of you must have literary associations with the start or
> end of love.  Surely there are interesting stories.
>  


You mean people actually have their wits about them to be able
to read when they are in love ? When I was falling in love I couldn't 
read anything. All that excitement you know that makes you 
pace constantly, too unsettling to be able to settle down and 
concentrate on a book. 
Of course I am still madly in love; it is deeper
stronger, more mature, vibrant and passionate while
being tender and understanding and definitely more knowing.
(The last sentence is for the benefit of my wife
in case she is lurking around here)

Regards,
-Vijay

************************************
Vijay K. Samalam        fiat experimentum in    
GTE Laboratories          corpore vili                    
Waltham , MA 02254
e-mail vks0@gte.com INTERNET
************************************
From: U48073@uicvm.uic.edu (Cole Kendall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:17:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92274.111730U48073
 <1992Sep26.220053.12892@athena.mit.edu> <3842@randvax.rand.org>
 <QemA47W00VpZQLEpFf@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <QemA47W00VpZQLEpFf@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Jonathan R. Ferro"
<jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu> says:
>
>How about fictitious non-fiction?  While reading "Foucault's Pendulum" I
>wondered regularly how many of the items the editors referred to were
>real.  Has anyone found any that Eco made up?

I have been looking for the collected works of DeSelby in used book
stores for many years now.  Has anyone seen his stuff in the Hamilton
catalogs?  Or has he gone the way of Peacock (I have only found the
dreaded Penguin Nightmare/Crotchet edition, which I, having had some
education in economics, have enjoyed quite a bit)?

Cole Kendall
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: Clark University
Date: 28 SEP 92 15:39:44 GMT

>>jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>
>>In article <jyc.717526696@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
>>writes:
>>
>>>      [quoting a reviewer]
>>>
>>>           Paglia's success demonstrates that anyone with a tiny
>>>           sense of timing, a willingness for her work to appear
>>>           in Playboy, a mouth bigger than her brain, a narcissistic
>>>           disorder, a passion for self-promotion and an atrophied
>>>           ethical sense can make it big in this country.

>>This extract from Radner's review is aimed at rallying her, presumably
>>feminist, troops rather than at convincing the uncommitted.
>
>what the quoted passage clearly says is not that "Paglia is a danger to
>feminists," but that "Paglia is a poser, a humbug, and a fool."

As a matter of fact, it *very* clearly declares, not that Paglia is
a poser and a humbug, but that she is mentally ill and has little or
no ethical sense.  Different accusations entirely.

Jon, can you give me some evidence that indicates Paglia is: 1) a poser,
2) a humbug, 3) a fool, 4) suffering from a "narcissistic disorder" and/
or an "atrophied ethical sense"?  Of course, the mere fact that you
disagree with what she says does not automatically lead to any of
the above conclusions.  As I said before, I heartily disagree with many,
if not most, of her opinions; but I would never accuse her of the
foregoing flaws.

BTW, many prominent women authors have published in Playboy.  It's a
nice subversive thing to do, in my opinion.  Imagine all these guys who
buy the magazine to ogle the Playmates and wind up reading the work of
some creative, intelligent woman.

>   (It is with some interest that I have noted in the course of this
>discussion that conservatives' much-vaunted immunity to trendy humbug
>seems to evaporate when the humbug is on their side of the fence.)

Having spent my entire life between the two camps, I have noted with
great interest that conservatives seem, on the whole, to be more
willing to engage in intellectual debate than "liberals", who are
often so hostile to opposing viewpoints that they dissolve into
incoherent rage when their doctrinaire opinions are challenged.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:36:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep30.032039.2097@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
>
>I, for one, read the articles, as did my mother before me, believe it or not.
>She once shocked me when we visited a bachelor friend who had a copy on his
>coffee table by handing it to me to read so that I wouldn't be bored.  I thought
>this would be taboo!  Imagine my surprise.
>

The only article I've ever read in Playboy was the amazing interview with
Imelda Marcos.  I would _love_ to get a copy of it somehow.  Anyone out
there have it?  It was in an issue that came out somewhere between 1986
and 1988, not too long after the revolution.





-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of Love
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:44:34 GMT

Heady with thread (and goddess, I *do* know the feeling), Mark
Taranto grows humorously impatient, and speculates wildly about
the sex lives of our fellow rabbers.

A tempting topic, indeed, but so...so revealing!  I mean, if I
started telling y'all about the swift flirtation I had with the man
who wore boots like handsome Mr. Knightley's (in _Emma_), or the
American Psychiatric Associaton romance ("same next year" in its
format) that revolved almost entirely around discussions of how
post-structuralism (espec. Derrida) does or does not apply to
psychoanalytic theory...well, if I started to tell *that* sort of
stuff, I would have to get into some serious details.  So I won't.

						--Fiona
From: gre2@quads.uchicago.edu (erik michael gregersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books in the time of school
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:47:32 GMT
Reply-To: gre2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Oct3.175258.25914@cactus.org> kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>>As for books: I have an old habit of asking people "What's the book
>>that got you through high school?"--you know, the book that
>>kept you going, made you strong; that you re-read when in need of bucking up,
>>perhaps even returned to in college like a teddy bear once in a
>>while, maybe even occasionally now . . .

For me, it was G. K. Chesterton and George Bernard Shaw that helped me keep
my sanity in high school.

Erik Gregersen
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books in the time of school
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:43:16 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Oct3.175258.25914@cactus.org> kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>As for books: I have an old habit of asking people "What's the book
>that got you through high school?"--you know, the book that
>kept you going, made you strong; that you re-read when in need of bucking up,
>perhaps even returned to in college like a teddy bear once in a
>while, maybe even occasionally now . . .

	'The  Effects  of Nuclear Weapons', edited by Glasstone, 
1962 edition made my high school years more enjoyable. Even if the
vertical apes I went to school  with *didn't* die in the side-effects
of the US-SU exchange everyone expected back then, I was able to
give them a good idea what to expect. This was especially fun during
a late 70s Sino-Soviet border clash, which got the same attention in
my school as the Cuban crisis did in the 60s.

	My girlfriend liked 'Tao of Pooh'.

							James Nicoll
From: saint@cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Ira Bodenheimer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: WANTED: Saint Mystery Magazines
Date: 6 Oct 1992 21:40:14 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu
Summary: I will pay cash for Saint magazines
Keywords: saint, charteris, magazines, wanted, cash


I am interested in purchasing any Saint Mystery Magazines that
are available. Either the U.S., British, French, or Dutch versions
are acceptable, I am trying to complete a collection. Please
mail me with any advice, sources, or quotes with descriptions.
Thank you, Dan
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books in the time of love
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:44:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct2.142610.14752@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:


>I was recently the third party in a very bizarre love/hate triangle.
>The other two parties were a pair of poets, she Brazilian-Finnish (bad,
>but with four collections, cocaine-crazed Christian fundamentalist -- a 
>funny oxymoron, actually, a funny moron), he New York City (very good,
>first collection from Norton next year).  Well, naturally, books were
>the very meat and drink of the affair.  To make a long and very
>interesting story short ...


Why did you??  

Make it long and publish it.  It sounds incredible. 


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:50:06 GMT
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences

In article <JMC.92Sep26122103@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
}This extract from Radner's review is aimed at rallying her, presumably
}feminist, troops rather than at convincing the uncommitted.

True, and it's about as reactionary a appeal to the resentment of Nanny-
statist feminist resentment as I've seen since the last time the Sunday
Examiner/ Chronicle published a speech of Paglias - Robin Lakoff issued a
missive from her exalted position in UCB's Linguistics department calling
Paglia a neoconservative (Camille calls herelf a libertarian, albeit not
a purist).

They just refuse to face up to the fact that their brand of collectivist
feminism doesn't wash, and that they're eventually going to have to accept
the individualism in the feminist tradition.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
From: bhahn@sw.stratus.com (Bill Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: WWII Novels?
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:07:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

Has anyone mentioned Erich Maria Remarque's <<Zeit zu Leben, Zeit zu Sterben>>
("Time to live, Time to die")?   About a German soldier on the Russian front
during WWII.   Hollywood actually made a movie from this novel, but changed
the title (of course) to "Time to Live, Time to Love".

-- 
Bill Hahn               bhahn@sw.stratus.com
Stratus Computer        "It's no good having a photographic memory
Marlboro, MA, USA        if you can't erase it."  -- Dan St. Sauveur
--------- These are my opinions and not necessarily those of Stratus.------
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:06:39 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <9209300234.AA01559@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
# # It's bonkers because Shakespeare's English is now 375 or so years old.
# # Why should we be expecting 14-year-olds to comprehend it?  It's no
# # wonder so many people dislike reading, and never go to the theatre.
# # Personally, I'd be quite happy to see Shakespeare completely taken out
# # of high school curricula, except for advanced (special) classes and -
# # perhaps - university-qualification level senior classes.
#  
# Poor Ms. Fysh seems to be taking a lot of heat for her statements.  Statements
# which I assumed were obviously a joke.
#  
# Given that she has an English Department address, I have just got to assume
# that she is joking, and is having quite a laugh at all of us for taking her
# seriously.  After all, what member of an English Department would SERIOUSLY
# consider banning Shakespeare until one was a senior in college.
#  
# Mark

A Politically Correct one.

Shakespeare's plays are one of those reminders that, regardless of
one's culture, there is literature of lasting value.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books