Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: bear hug variation
From: ttrimble@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:28:51 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Dec21.201402.2852@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:

{much stuff cut out}

>>(3)  You have about three seconds (a generous estimate) between the time the
>>bear hug commenced and the time your head is being dropped against the ground. 
> 
> 	Uh... exactly HOW is your head supposed to wind up in the floor
> 	when he has grabbed you whilst you were upright?                        

{snip}

> 	Not too difficult to get out of either.  First thig to do is RELAX,
> 	both physically and mentally.  The physical relaxation will make
> 	you a VERY hard package to carry around, bear hug style.  Of course,
> 	you have to know how to properly relax (which is not as easy as it
> 	sounds).  
> 
> 	Another point to consider is that the guy hugging you has put his
> 	two primary weapons out of commission (fists) which is good for you.
> 	In addition, he is essentially blind, since you say he has hidden
> 	his face to avoid a head butt.  Also, the first part that will hit the 
> 	wall will be his hands/wrists, which will not make him feel so hot.
> 	And turning you upside down to slam you into the floor, head-first,
> 	will be IMPOSSIBLE if you become like jello.  Give him no help and he
> 	will be shit out of luck.  Now he's stuck holding onto a clumsey
> 	package that could remove his face if he let's go.  Big quandary.

    i don't want to presuppose a lack of experience on your part Andy, but as a
wrestler i would have to say that attacker is not SOL if he knows what he's 
doing.  wrestlers seem to love this attack, and they have two ways of taking
you head first into the ground once they've picked you up (that is, only two 
come to my mind right now.)       a) to sweep your legs w/ one of his and drop
both of you (him on top) to the side he swept.  this would not be countered
easily by a defender who is limp "like jello."  (in my experience, this 
would not be countered easily by a defender who's doing everything right and 
who has 8+ years of practice getting out of this...) 
b) to go into a back arch and drop you over his shoulder onto the back of your 
head.  (he would pivot himself to face down just as your head hit the ground)  
again, being jello-like would not help a whole hell of a lot.           

> 	Also, it should be easy to get your arms free if you are relaxed.
> 	In fact, they should slip right out of his grip.  Sounds crazy, but
> 	it works when you relax enough.  Water is hard to fight against!

    i wouldn't doubt that you could get your arms out, but if he took you back
over his shoulder, they wouldn't be of much use to ya'.  (they might help break
the fall if he took you to the side)

> 
> 	If Joe B. A. Dick wants to carry you around all night, let him.  All
> 	he'll acomplish is wear himself out.  Also, if he IS stupid enough
> 	to charge a wall,, a leg sticking out, off center, will cause a rolling
> 	motion to one side or another.  You have effectively redirected the 
> 	momentum such that HE winds up putting himself into the wall, or the
> 	surrounding furnishings/interior decoration.
> 
> 	-Andy V.

					just my two cents,
						           -tom