From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: Stubborn Cyclists
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 01:48:01 GMT

In article 23268@colorado.edu, drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.030058.11632@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>>
>>
>>  Here's my problem: I drive to school every day. The road is full of cars
>>wall-to-wall. I usually keep right because the left lane jams up when 
>>somebody makes a left turn. There is a bike trail not 10 meters (30 feet)
>>to the right of the road. These cyclists with their wide-handlebar mountain
>>bikes are scary because one of them has to just make a sudden move and he's
>>under my 245/50/VR16's.
>
>Do you like driving down pot-hole covered roads, with potholes severe enough 
>to damage your car?  Cyclists don't either.  Many bike paths are in a sad
>state of repair, where the potholes are bad enough to at least knock a wheel
>out of true if they don't throw you.  There are also more minor imperfections
>in the pavement that recieve less attention than those on roads.
>
Hey, where I come from originally, we have potholed roads like you've
never seen. That place is Montreal.

>Do you like driving on roads where there's a 15MPH speed limit, and 
>traffic is doing 5?  Cyclists don't either.  In many places, there is 
>a ridiculously low speed limit on the bike paths that is enforced 
>by Bike Nazis (pigs on pedal patrol).  Pedestrians on dual purpose 
>paths can slow traffic to a snails pace, ignoring separating lines
>IF there are any.

It gets that way when cyclists use the whole right lane in congested
traffic, and that's what I'm complaining about.

>How about when you get on a road, and the slower cars in front of you fill up 
>all available lanes so you can't pass?  I've seen many pedestrians walking
>down a bike path three and four abreast.  They get a little irritated
>when you pass at 25, if one of them doesn't get run over when he 
>makes a sudden move in the wrong dirrection.

Pedestrians should be on sidewalks where they belong, like bikers should
be on bike paths.

>How do you feel about drivers who pull out in the middle of the road, stopping
>all traffic while their waiting to make a turn?  Most bike paths are set back
>from the main road, and drivers will pull into intersections between bike
>paths and side roads so they can have a good view of the "real" road.  

Fine, but don't block other traffic. 

>What about sand?  Bike roads don't have a shoulder, where runoff carries
>debris like sand.  On my road bike, I have two contact patches of under 
>..75 square inches each.  Loose traction on either of those and you'll get 
>a nasty case of road rash at 20+ MPH.  

That's why your bike paths have speed limits. Real roads have speed limits
too, and I adhere to them.

>At night, the lights hang over the real road, not the bike path.  
>I like to see where I'm going.

Isn't your bike equipped with a little generator and light? Those things
exist for a purpose.

>>  Up to now, I just swerve half into the left lane, provided that I can 
>>squeeze in between other cars. Otherwise, I pass between the left-lane
>>traffic and the biker by a hair.
>
>This is probably illegal.  I imagine that all the rules that apply to 
>passing a car or motorcycle apply to passing a bicycle - anybody 
>have the definate word on this?

No, not illegal, I use lane change signals and make sure there's lots of room.

>Treat cyclists the same way you would ANY slow moving traffic.  Wait until
>it's safe to pass (Ie, no traffic in the other lane!) and then do so.  

If there's a bike path, cyclists should use it.

>If you risk it, remember that you could loose everything you own in 
>a civil case, not to mention the criminal penalties or having to 
>live with your conscience for the rest of your life.

Not likely. I haven't hit one yet. And I usually give them lot of room.
It's waiting at red lights that gets me too close to bikers, when they pass
inches from the car, just to get up to the intersection. If they waited behind 
my car, I would treat them just like other traffic.

>Cyclists pay the same taxes (Albeit not so much gas tax) 
>that you do, and ought to have the same rights on the road,
>provided that they follow all applicable traffic laws.  

As stated in my last paragraph.

>>
>>  Am I the only one who bitches about bikers not using bike trails?
>>
>>  Does this happen to you, too?
>
>No.  Normally, I only drive my car when I'm going skiing, camping, etc,
>or hauling something.  
>
>If you abused cyclists in Boulder the way you do in California, you'd
>be chased down and pummelled by millitant bikers.  When some of these
>guys get cut off, they'll chase down your car, pound on your glass, 
>and...

Complaining about some phenomenon and abusing people are entirely dif-
ferent things. I have never cut a cyclist off, or caused a bicycle
accident. Something is wrong with the status quo, and it should change
in order to make life more amenable to motorists and cyclists.
   Furthermore, my posts come from Victoria, British Columbia, Canada;
NOT California. I see no reason why violence should come into the
picture. I'm not one of those *I'm bigger than you* idiot motorists.
Cyclists have a rough time out there. But still, I see your point
because when I go for a walk, cyclists come flying by not inches from
my face. They give me the willies, and this is on the sidewalk. 

Andy.

IGNORANCE disclaimer applies.