HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v064mcqs@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL GANDLER)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Invention Development Companies  Truth or Fraud
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:45:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  I am a sophomore engineering student and have been developing a
completely automatic light controlling system that fits in the standard
switch box on the wall of almost any room. I saw a television commercial
ad for the National Idea Center. I decided to call and send away for their
free information. A couple of weeks a guy calls sounding very concerned
and enthousiastic about my invention. I send him a small description.
Next he called me back telling me that their was good news, that my idea
can be patented and "we are talking about big money". And he slowly led
to saying that their is a fee of around $800 for lawyers, product developers
etc and I should read of the information that he is going to send me. I
have not received it yet. I would like to know if anyone has dealt with these
people. Where is their profit in this and why is this guy so overly nice
that he sounds deceitfull. Also are their any alternatives to marketing
my product this way. The funny thing is that I dont even have a prototype
and this guy is talking about sucess. It is certainly apparent that this
guy wants one thing. If anyone has any advice or info I would appreciate
it.

		Neil B. Gandler
From: jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Business Angels?
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:32:57 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	In my previous post I meant to say  "seed capital"
venture firms (not see  8-) ).

Jason


Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: regmad@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Michael de Kraker)
Subject: Re: Money Making scheme
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:57:20 GMT

reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown) writes:

>>>>>> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:

>fritz> Even writing your own book, it's no cakewalk.  I tried doing
>fritz> that a few years ago.  You can bankrupt yourself advertising,
>fritz> and still not pull any orders.

>Really?! Great-- what was the book about.

>I found writing the book was not a major challenge, though it did take
>quite a bit of discipline to sit down and write and re-write each day.

>My biggest difficulty was writing a good ad, testing it, rewriting it,
>comparing it, rewriting it, getting advice, rewriting it..... And
>still, some publications would make money and others wouldn't.
>Targeting your audiene is so important in direct advertising and
>direct mail.

>Joe Karbo (_Lazy Man's Way to Riches_) originally wrote a full page Ad
>and then wrote his book after it pulled tons of orders. (Of course
>that is now illegal but.... it stress the importance of a good ad.)


	Not illegal if you do it within 30 days or send the money back
	FTC rules

>bob

>--
>--Bob
>Systar Technologies, Inc.		   Sun: robert.brown@EBay.Sun.COM
>1712 Picasso Avenue, #B & #C            Office: reb@systar.com
>Davis, California  95616		 Phone: (916) 753 - 2611
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Subject: Re: Business Angels?
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:21:01 GMT

Another point to add to Robert's execellent ones:

I found your posting almost entirely content-free.  All I got out of it
was that you want money for something.  Doublespeak like "warriors
looking for angels" may be cute, but cute is not what attracts investors.

If you want results, post some real information.  That's what people need
to make decisions.

Gary
From: david.tollerson@ehbbs.hou.tx.us (David Tollerson) 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: DIRECT MAIL
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:11:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Berkeley Lake, GA - 404-446-9462
Reply-To: david.tollerson@ehbbs.hou.tx.us (David Tollerson) 

I am in process of forming a cooperative mailing with other small
business owners and would be interested in seeing how we could help each
other. Fax me (404)413-0173
                                                                                         
----
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|       Ed Hopper's BBS - ehbbs.gwinnett.com - Atlanta, Georgia         |
|  USR/HST: 404-446-9462                  V.32bis: 404-446-9465         |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: tyrone@infinity.att.com (51233-Tyrone Shiu(HOC828)HRCP)
Subject: Money Making scheme
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:32:45 GMT
Keywords: money making scheme, answering machine.

Hi:

I stumbled across some of my old junk mail and see this ad about
"COMPLETE BUSINESS START-UP PACKAGE" for making money with your
answering machine from a person called "Eileen K. Rohleder c/o Mid-American
Opportunity Research Enterprises (M.O.R.E).  Does anyone know whether
this scheme work/safe or etc. Are they still in business?
Thanks for your input/information.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: dgordon@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel B. Gordon)
Subject: QUERY: how to print mailing labels
Summary: How are labels printed for direct-mail work?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:41:28 GMT


I am working on software to print mailing labels, and I'm curious
how users of label-printing software print their labels.

--does one print in row order, in column order, or it all depends?
--does one skip to next column/row when finishing a zip-code block?

Dan Gordon

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Subject: Re: Money Making scheme
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:48:55 GMT

Bob Brown (reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
: Really?! Great-- what was the book about.

Actually my wife wrote it, and also wrote most of the ads.  The book
(booklet, really) was about creativity and how to develop it in yourself.
I've learned a bit about writing ads since then, and might be able to
do a better job now -- but the fact that two reasonably bright people
could place as many ads as we did with virtually no response should
tell you that "write a book, place an ad, rake in the money" isn't
quite as easy as it sounds.

The "Joe Karbo Way to Riches", if I remember right, mostly emphasizes
selling "How to Get Rich" books.  That tends to appeal to a wider audience
than "Increasing your Creativity", and would probably have a greater
rate of success.

As an experiment, I recently got a mailing list of magazine editors and tried
sending out a "press release" about the book.  (What the heck, the books
are gathering dust in the basement, might as well try to move 'em... :-)
I sent out 70 releases, got a 20% nixie rate (great list), and so far
have gotten one inquiry for a review copy.  We'll see if this generates
any interest.  Hell, if we sell 3 or 4 copies it will have paid for
the experiment!

Gary
From: freshair@iastate.edu (James W Gregory)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: need advice on bicycle courier serv.
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:24:47 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

I mentioned in the previous post that I operate a part-time
bicycle-powered grocery delivery service.  After I graduate this fall,
I plan to pursue this business full-time.  However, I'm also thinking
of getting into the local courier business her in town (Ames, IA, Pop.
50,000; home of Iowa State Univ.).  My idea would be to get a cellular
phone I could wear on my belt so I could receive calls from customers
and then make runs as they request them.  I plan on operating as a
one-person company to keep costs (insurance, etc.) low.  Anyvbody have any
ideas/suggestions on how to get started, what would be a reasonable
charge, what customers I should target, how I could get bonded by a
bonding company (and how much it would cost), etc?  Please reply by e-mail,
as I don't read this often.

Thanx.

-Jim
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gregory      freshair@iastate.edu    |  "10,000 lemmings can't be wrong"
Dept. of Plant Pathology, ISU (by day)   |          - anonymous
Fresh Aire Delivery Services (by night/weekends)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Subject: Re: Money Making scheme
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:52:41 GMT

51233-Tyrone Shiu(HOC828)HRCP (tyrone@infinity.att.com) wrote:
: I stumbled across some of my old junk mail and see this ad about
: "COMPLETE BUSINESS START-UP PACKAGE" for making money with your
: answering machine from a person called "Eileen K. Rohleder c/o Mid-American
: Opportunity Research Enterprises (M.O.R.E).  Does anyone know whether
: this scheme work/safe or etc. Are they still in business?

They are still in business -- I just got a mailing from them a few
weeks ago.  I have heard that, as "mail-order opportunity vendors" go,
Eileen Rohleder is supposed to be one of the better / more honorable ones,
but that's not a very reliable source.  I think there's no question
that she makes more money from selling "opportunities" via the mail
than with her answering machine.

I'd be very interested in hearing from someone who actually SENT for
her packet, or similar ones, to hear what the scam is.

Gary
From: jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Business Angels?
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:02:19 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

>
>One more note about classified ads in the Wall Street Journal -- the

	Many other sources of funding exist.  It really depends
on how much money you need, where you are in the development cycle, etc...
	I wouldn't go with a WSJ ad, but I guess at the ~$450 
quoted before, it might be worth it.
	If you have an accountant, a banker, and/or a lawyer I would
talk with them.  Often they will have contacts with people/companies/
investors that might  be interested.  If not, they often know someone
who knows someone etc...
	The other thing to do would be to check the library for the
list to venture capital firms, find the ones that specialize
in your area and business size etc...  Then send them a copy of your
business plan or contact them about it before hand.  If you can
find a contact at one of these firms beforehand it will greatly increase
your chances of having more than the Exec. Summary read.

	Also, many states have technology and business loan programs
available - check with your local Small Business Development Center.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Haines		     University of Pennsylvania (SEAS & Wharton)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Red '90 Mustang LX 5.0    /     Blue '71 Rotary Powered Datsun 510
(Recycle your toner cartridges)	           (^^^^^FOR SALE^^^^^)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Business Angels?
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:44:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <By0zCw.Hvr@access.digex.com> burgoyne@access.digex.com (J. Robert Burgoyne) writes:
>jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines) writes:
>: >
>: >One more note about classified ads in the Wall Street Journal -- the
> 
>: 	Many other sources of funding exist.  It really depends
>: on how much money you need, where you are in the development cycle, etc...
>
>Uh yeh, but how many of those have you personally tried to do? It's just that
>everyone talks about the things you talk about, but how many people do you
>know that got results from a cold start?

	My family and I have tried several of these methods.  Business
associates and friends have tried many of the others.

	I have never tried a Wall Street Journal Ad.  I have tried bankers
and found them to be very unwilling without considerable assets
(especially liquid assets).
	Talking with my lawyer, accounant, etc... has helped me get contacts 
that are or might be willing to help fund a venture.
(I have started one business, about to start another and my family
has another two businesses).
	I agree that trying to get a venture capital firm can be very
difficult.  They want rather large returns and are only interested
in the 500K to 1million plus range (although see capital venture firms do
exist - but they still want to think big)

>
>This never works for most people. Nobody wants to stake their reputation
>on your project, so everyone appears interested, buy no money flows to you.

	So what would you recommend????

>: available - check with your local Small Business Development Center.

>
>These are a joke. Talk with my banker and he'll tell you why you'll never
>get money from them, particularly if you don't have personal assets to
>put up as collateral.
>
>Robert Burgoyne

	
	Talk with my banker and you will find out why you will never get 
money from the bank.  8-)
	I have found the SBDCs to be very helpful.  I have not yet used
a Ben Franklin Tech. loan (the state of PA tech. loan/grant ) nor
I have I used a NJ tech. loan although we are researching the
possibility.  SBA loans tend to be of the medium size and are
more geared to the 'mom and pop' grocery and drycleaning business
but they can be helpful.  (they do stress billings and receivables
when evaluating your request)  

	
Jason



Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: sad@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (downie,sharon l)
Subject: Re: NEW AGE STORE       
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 18:32:57 GMT

I would like to open a new age store and need some
help with wholesalers.  I know where to get some
of the books and jewelry, but need help with the
crystals and other necessary material.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Sharon Serene
From: besr@sepro.odessa.ua (Anatoly K. Bezrodnyh)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: I look for partners and investors in manufacturing of ultra-dispersion powders
Date: 12 Nov 92 08:50:23 GMT
Reply-To: besr@sepro.odessa.ua
Organization: Sepros Corp. Int.


     Dear sears!

I'd like to introduce you one of latest workings out of Research
and Development Laboratory of SEPROS CORP.INT., which are the
aluminium, iron, zirconium ultra-dispersion oxides and synthetic
spinel, and also the polishing compounds for finishing on its base.

During the last years our R & D Laboratory is involving in the field
of the newest technologies of obtaining the metal oxides and
chalcogenides as well as synthetic spinels and multi- component
systems. The base of this technologies is our well proved synthesis
method (Gas Dispersion Synthesis - GDS).

GDS combines many important advantages, such as:

a) possibility of obtaining the grain sizes and product cleanness,
   which are unattainable by the traditional methods (chemical, for
   example);

b) all-round ecological purity;

S) excellent application to the industrial production:

   - possibility of non-interrupted technological process (consist of
     one single step),

   - high productivity,

   - considerable energy saving,

   - waste products absence;

d) direct dependence of created product"s cleanness from the raw
   material cleanness only;

e) the possibilities to modify within wide limits the grain sizes,
   crystal forms and powder colors.

Please find enclosed certificates on some our products, which are
good illustration of the above mentioned GDS advantages. The same
results were attained, in particular, for TiO2, ZnO, MgO and ZnS.

One of examples of very successful industrial application of our
products is the lapping of special aluminium reflectors by
superfinishing compound based on ultra-dispersion aluminium oxide. It
permits to achieve reflection factor equal to 99.9%.

We would be very pleased to know your opinion about above mentioned
products, obtained by means of Gas Dispersion Synthesis.  We are sure
that there are many possibilities for manufacturing and trading
cooperation in the field ultra-dispersion oxides, chalcogenides and
spinels as well as various products on its base (polishing compounds
for finishing, magnetic coatings, paints and toners, luminophors and
so on).

     Yours faithfully,
-- 
Anatoly Bezrodnykh, Research Director,Ph.D.,
Sepros.Corp.Int., Ukraine, 270088, Odessa, Box 256;
E-mail: Internet> besr%sepro.odessa.ua@USSR.EU.net;
Voice: (7-0482)450143, Fax:(7-0482)269774; TX: 232153 ORLAN SU.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: burgoyne@access.digex.com (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: Business Angels?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:49:18 GMT

ASODL@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
: $80K + 12 mo. -> $110K plus life-long extras

Two points. One, as noted by Joe Karbo, the best money-making projects
don't require much money to start. Maybe you can find one to do which
can fund your capital intensive project.

But you don't want to hear that.

Consider placing a classified ad in the Wall Street Journal. Be prepared
to mail out a well-written proposal as soon as you get calls. (If you do)

Best of luck.

Robert Burgoyne
Laurel, Maryland
 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: oleksik@rainbow.uchicago.edu (John Oleksik)
Subject: Re: Invention Development Companies Truth or Fraud
Summary: outline of invention development activities 
Keywords: inventions, invention service firms 
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:25:19 GMT

I have been a principal in an invention development company and also will be
taking patent bar exam in march. Couple of points. Most firms that charge 
non-refundable fees, paid directly to the firm, are surviving on those fees.
If you have a very complicated invention, there may be a need to bring in a
consultant to evaluate etc, although if that happens too often, you are at 
a firm with too shallow a technical base and you should go elsewhere (we had
phd chemist, physicist, a manufacturing engineer and a manufactures rep).
In the big picture, these firms can do only one of three things. They can 
license your invention to a manufacturer for a fee or royalty deal, they can
serve as general contractor and handle contract manufacturing and direct dis-
tribution for you, or they can serve as incubator and build an entreprenurial
start up around your product. In each of these cases, you must jointly select
a direction to go in, and the services, fees and related hassles must be con-
sistent with these objectives.  For a firm with a "captive" patent resource,
the cost of a patent is less than $500.  You can spend $2000+ for a good re-
searched marketing report through DIALOG or a simlilar service for a base line
technology product or far more for pioneering technology.  Unless your team
consists of Nobel laureates or comparable stature parties, you will need to 
obtain independent verification of your hypothesis, both technical and market-
ing.  I won't get into detail on manufacturing, other than to say that I have
seen prototype costs run into six figures for inventions that would not "seem"
to be that complicated.  This is a complicated business; the costs involved 
in the original inventing are only a small tip of the iceberg.  Consultants
or development firms can play a role, but if you engage one be sure that your
expectations are in line with the capabilities of the firm.

		Good luck,

		John J. Oleksik

		oleksik@rainbow.uchicago.edu


Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: "icon store" <icon.store@canrem.com>
Subject: accounting software
Reply-To: "icon store" <icon.store@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: misc
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:19:06 EST

Hi,

I am looking for the telephone numbers to 2 accounting systems: Macola
and In-Mass II. If help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim
Icon.Store@canrem.uucp
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: Invention Development Companies  Truth or Fraud
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.161759.15757@sbctri.sbc.com> mas@sbctri.tri.sbc.com (Marc
A. Sullivan) writes:
>A patent costs a lot more than $800!  And that's not including his
>profit on the whole deal.  This has to be a complete rip-off.
>

I would dare say that the $800 is only what is required to do a "patent
search."
That is, they will see if your idea is patentable, then they will see if it
already exists or not.  This is just step one.  Yes, the cost is A LOT more
that 800.00.

Just remember, if something sounds too good to be true (ie. instant wealth,
etc), it usually is.  Or if someone tells you that the offer is good today
only, believe them - it will be good today only.  Tomorrow it's anybody's
guess.  Good ideas always stick around.  Any company worth dealing with will
not pressure you into dealing with them.  Fact is they will make you chase
them.

Good luck and I hope your invention goes well.

Jon

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: drw@euclid.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Subject: Re: Invention Development Companies  Truth or Fraud
Organization: MIT Dept. of Tetrapilotomy, Cambridge, MA, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:41:48 GMT

In article <BxxoK0.DCC@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064mcqs@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL GANDLER) writes:
   I am a sophomore engineering student and have been developing a
   completely automatic light controlling system that fits in the standard
   switch box on the wall of almost any room.

Yes, but is there any market for this invention?  You can probably
find out with a few week's work and a few hundred dollars investment.
Don't bother getting a patent if there isn't.  (But consider
publishing a description in an engineering magazine, so someone else
can't get a patent on it!)

   I saw a television commercial
   ad for the National Idea Center. I decided to call and send away for their
   free information. A couple of weeks a guy calls sounding very concerned
   and enthousiastic about my invention. I send him a small description.
   Next he called me back telling me that their was good news, that my idea
   can be patented and "we are talking about big money". 

No shit.  Did he mention whether it was *you* or *him* that would get
the "big money"?

   And he slowly led
   to saying that their is a fee of around $800 for lawyers, product developers
   etc and I should read of the information that he is going to send me.

Well, getting a patent usually costs about $5000 for the lawyers.  I
gather the Patent Office fees are far less, but the lawyer does a lot
of useful work, mostly involving giving the patent as broad a scope as
possible so other people can't "invent around" your patent.  (I'm
continuously amazed by the stories a patent attorney friend tells me
about inventors who really don't understand the full breadth of what
they've invented.)  Maybe a really efficient patent factory can cut
the costs significantly, but they can't cut them 80% without skimping
somewhere.  And somebody is paying for the TV ads, which are not
cheap.  (Hint: It's you!)

Dale
From: mas@sbctri.tri.sbc.com (Marc A. Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Invention Development Companies  Truth or Fraud
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:17:59 GMT
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO

A patent costs a lot more than $800!  And that's not including his
profit on the whole deal.  This has to be a complete rip-off.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs