HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peterh@netcom.com (Peter John Harrison)
Subject: Re: Horse armoring
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:24:36 GMT

Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:

> CM> directions at once. One
> CM> could presume that the ankles of the....animals in 
> CM> question, were fitted
> CM> with spike bearing anklets, but I have no evidence 
>They are already being struck by one he** of a mace, and you want to 
> make it a spiked mace?  Actually, now that I cogitate on it, I'd be 
> willing to bet that spiked anklets would be more of a danger to the 
> horse than to others.  Horses tend to kick dead-on when they're 
> aiming, so the anklets would have to be effective in a glancing 
> situation.......
>     my two pence worth...
>         Gwenllian CfM

Also, consider the ramifications to the horse.  If the anklets were even
a little bit too tight, the horse would lame up due to binding on the
tendons; too loose, and the horse would lame up with cuts where the
anklets rubbed or from abcesses from having the hair pushed back down
the folicles.

In your service,
Gregory of Malvern
============================================================================
Peter John Harrison
peterh@netcom.com

From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:43:58

 CL> baroncy seems to be a bad idea to me. While I'm sure that there are
 CL> bad barons, and luckily we in Illiton have escaped from this fate {we
Ah, but the problem is not only bad barons, but tired baron/esses who 
 see no replacement or just don't think of stepping down when they have 
 run out of steam.  Here in the Steppes, our next-to-last Baronial pair 
 was just such a couple.  They were sufficiently burned out that they 
 only showed up at our monthly Populace & Business meetings, and of course events.  They were very out of touch with the group.  They were 
 really nice people, and they made an effort to reward people, but they 
 weren't "involved".
..
 CL> How to determine the most active members is a knotty problem.
 CL> Certainly, if the officers are of good repute, they are active
 CL> members. But I am still not sure how to determine what a non-officer
 CL> active member is, and how he or she is different from just some person
 CL> in a T-tunic.
Oh, you know who they are.  They're sponsoring the guilds, they attend 
 most of your local meetings, participating as best they can.  And every 
 event you hold, they're doing something to help out.  <g>
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd
      Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:36:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.134226.22190@mail.cornell.edu> Ken Stuart  <kps1@cornell.edu> writes:
>Whereas wool can be obtained from the farmer down the road, from
>mail-order houses, or from a local spinners' guild, not many people can
>find a source for flax.  If a city-dweller wishes to learn to work with
>wool, not much equipment is required, and the wool is easy to obtain --
>there are many people who still raise sheep.  

Ahem...  While it may not be true in all places, generally in the US,
companies that supply hand-spinning materials and equipment include
flax as part of their normal stock.

It is usually in the form of a top--carded and made into a continuous
think strip. 

Handspinning linen isn't a whole lot of fun.  You need to wet it as
you spin it (traditionally done with tongue and thumb and the stuff
tastes pretty bad;  modern usage is a bowl of water).  This smooths a
fibers that tend to stick out.

Depending on skill, you can spin a quite fine linen thread.  Indeed,
it's *far* easier that cotton to spin.  The fiber is both stronger and
longer.

For serious work with flax, you'll want to make or buy a distaff to
hold the flax that has been prepared for spinning.  You will also
discover why small boys with unkempt hair are described as 'tow
headed'.

The virtue of linen over wool (from an economic standpoint) is that,
while you've noted the lad and time requirements, you don't have to
*herd* flax plants.  The overall labor requirements are fairly
low--much of the preparation takes a short burst of activity with long
intervals of ignoring it.  The same cannot be said of sheep.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: archery officers
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:22:29 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Graydon asked:

> I've got a question for you folks - is there any documentation for
> what commanders of archery units were called?

I recently came across evidence of Archers' Guilds in 15th century Germany.
You could use the nomenclature of a guild structure.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Another name querry.....
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:17:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: burrhus.1992Oct2.151705.20120
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Oct1.201214.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> msmallin@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>Good gentles; I, too, would ask your asistance. My chosen name,
>Kierana Woodvale, is the cause for this querry. "Cieran" was held by 
>a few 5th c Irish saints, and was Anglicised to "Kieran". What I need
>is some direction in feminizations of male names in Irelard and Wales
>around 1150-1350. Kerena is the name of Job's third daughter; might
>my noble father have combined the two to get Kierana? Also, when was 
>the change made from surnames such as "X in the wooded valley" changed
>to "X Woodvale" ? I'm very attached to this name, and any assistance
>would be greatly apreceiated....

	Well, my Celtic language skills are effectively non-existant :( so
I can't say much regarding your given name.

	As far as your second name, "Woodvale" is Modern English, and well
wouldn't have been spelled like that in your period.  If your persona is
non-English speaking (as most Gaels or Welsh spoke no English) then you
might want to consider translating Woodvale into the appropriate language
for your place/time.
	"Wood" I am nearly certain is a Saxon word, and "vale" has a Old
Norse cognate which it may be descended from, but there may be a Saxon root
as well which I have forgotten.  Certainly it's a Germanic construct, as
is.
	If you don't mind English, you could try shunting "Woodvale" back
out of Modern English into Early Middle English (I've no idea how it would
be spelled though).

Cheers & Good Luck
Karl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Counts and Dukes and Laurels oh my
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:25:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: vela.1992Sep30.172520.4669
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized

In article <1992Sep25.193334.5242@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose)) writes:

>The use of _comes_ as the title of a regional governor is a Merovingian 
>innovation.  The use of _dux_ as the title for a regional governor is a 
>Carolingian practice, usually associated with the combining of several 
>_comites_ under the supervision of another _comes_ who was then styled _dux_.

  It's worth pointing out that under the Merovingians, a _dux_ was a warleader
or general, while a _comes_ was an administrator.  Under the Merovingian system
(at least in the 6th century), a _dux_ was not the direct supervisor of a group
of _comites_.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Pursuivant
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 15:21:16 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  Henry writes:

> It seems to me that it takes a couple of years to fit in (I think I've
> been baron for two and a half years) and see what the barony wants and
> needs. 

This argument is often advanced against term limits of various types; a
similar argument is used against the idea of limiting the number of times
any one gentle may reign.  I've always found it a little peculiar.  I'm not
addressing this at you, Henry, of course, but I'd like to pose a
counter-question: If someone needs two years to figure out how to do a job,
should he have it in the first place?  

The disagreement over baronial term limits may come from the fact that we
really have no idea what we expect from them or what they should do.  We
definitely know what we expect of a kingdom seneschal, and we are quite
certain of the problems that can arise if someone holds that job too long;
it maynot be a coincidence that term limits for Great Officers are
(almost?)  universal.  The same is not true of baron/esses.  There is no
job description, no formal responsibilities.  I've known baronies that have
gone for years with a completely inactive baron, without any complaint.  In
fact, this may explain why we have so much trouble removing or replacing
our barons: The job is so ill-defined that there is no objective way to
evaluate the incumbent or a candidate.  And that may be the very best
argument in favor of term limits: If there is no good way to decide when
you need a new baron, then changing them regularly may be very wise indeed.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mfy@sli.COM (Mike Yoder)
Subject: choosing barons
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:33:26 GMT


Good day, gentles, and especially the noble lady Angharad, who wrote:

    Cariadoc has also supported this view as feudal.  Can (either of)
    you document it as taking place in any of the major European powers?  
    From what I recall of English history (my knowledge of France is 
    thin, and of anywhere else _woefully_ thin), no such procedure or 
    anything like it was ever followed (not even once) between, say,
    1066 and 1500.

One major European power with just pots of democracy in period is the Swiss
Confederation, but I wouldn't call it feudal.  You can find many republics
among the Italian city-states; I'm not sure if any of them qualify as "major"
to you.  Also, I'd hesitate to call them *democratic* republics without hitting
the books a lot first.  Perhaps a silent expert on Italy out there will be
induced to speak up.

However, I find the discussion a little surreal at this point.  Our game world
can be any way people like, and it probably won't disturb me; but if something
is for real, I care not in the least whether it's period until after the
options have been reduced to those I (the 20th century person) approve of.  If
there is no palatable period method, then use a palatable method in a mundane
setting and pretend it doesn't exist at events.  This works with the BOD.

It is, of course, more fun if your "for real" things are also period, or at
least periodoid.  But we don't release plague rats to increase verisimilitude,
and we oughtn't use "it's period" to justify autocracy.  (I am not asserting
that you did so, lest you misunderstand; but your statement seemed to be shaded
in that direction.)

    Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy%sli@uunet.uu.net]
    N.B. Joderhuebel is (and was) in canton Berne, Switzerland.

    "David Icke, a televisual Green who had claimed to be a son of God,
    warned delegates about the party's loss of credibility."
        -- _The Economist_, on a Green Party conference in Wolverhampton
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pentacles - "technical" question
Date: Sun,  4 Oct 92 10:23:23 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Aryk writes:
> In article <431-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP> Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:
> 
>>He states, in his preface, that his work is "collected" knowledge,
>>garnered from older sources, but I can neither confirm nor rebut his
>>claim.
> 
> As opposed to those writers of occult tomes who say, "I just made this up"?
> 
> I was fooling around with a ruler and a pencil and I came up with this sharp
> symbol, and I thought I would identify it with tremendous power over spirits
> of air and fire.  Buy my book?

I fear you missed my point.  Sam'l gave a "starting date" of the
mid-19th-century for the pentacle's use as a symbol of power.  I
posted an excerpt from a source half a century older than that,
and asked if anyone had any older evidence (which Barrett claimed
to have used).

I made no judgements as to whether he was speaking the truth, as
I have no older sources which could confirm or rebut his claim.

(It's really not that important to me whether he told the truth
or not; until I have seen some proof of magic's efficacy, I do
not believe in it.  I'm just curious as to when the pentacle
WAS first considered to be a symbol of power.)

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Subject: Pentacles - "technical" question
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:29:00 GMT

Claude de Montcastel:
>Alison spoke of a group of pagans trying to disengage the pentacle from
>its nasty associations with satanism by opposing the upward pentacle
>to the downward (satanist) pentacle.

>Is this distinction :
> - real in christian/jewish/pagan symbolisms ?
> - real IN PERIOD in ... symbolisms ?

A dean at one of the Swdeish cathedrals during the middle ages used a
downward pentacle in his seal. (And two other people used the upward
pentacle). Hardly a proof that both kinds of pentacles were respected
christian symbols during all of period in all of Europe, but at least
another indication that the distinction (up=good, down=evil) didn't hold in
all of period in all of Europe...
 ----------------------------  
  |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
  | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
  |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
  |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
  |   | |    | / | | \   |   
  |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
 ----------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca
Subject: Period terminology
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:22:57 GMT

On Monday Bill Summerfield asks: "I'm not sure what the "correct" word
is, but someone with ready access to period sources would unoubtably
be able to find period names for "someone wjo organizes festivities"."
Around here, we have occasionally used the word "Host" for just such
a position.David Tallan (tallan@flis.utoronto.ca)
From: leighann@fugazi.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bilingual inn jokes... (Was: Re: Latin (was silly welsh request))
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:40:11 GMT
Organization: Tealach Rois Dubh

Greetings to the Rialto from Siobhan!
Etienne writes:
|> A citizen of the eternal city walks into a bar and says to the bartender
|> "give me a martinus".  The bartender says "don't you mean _martini_?".  To which
|> the roman responds "If I want two, I'll ask for them".....  

Jock came back from France and went to put down a pint with Angus and
Geordie.  "Och, lads," sez he, "that France is an unco' place!  Ye ask
fer twa eggs, and they gie ye three!"

	- Siobhan


----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey 		leighann@sybase.com
Siobhan ni hEodhusa, ORL, OGB, etc.
Argent, a pale vert, surmounted in base by a lion dormant or, on a chief
wavy vert an Irish harp or.
From: 00rkspicher@bsu-ucs.uucp (Randall Spicher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Feet Voting
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:06:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.003617.9480@bradley.bradley.edu>, moonman@buhub.bradley.edu (Craig Levin) writes:
> Greetings to all, and most especially to Lord Tadhg, whom I quote:
> 
people wrote stuff about houshold vs. college/shire/canton
> 
> 
> Also, existing as a household lets us avoid complications with the
> university as a "non-approved" organization-this lets us set our own
> admission standards, as opposed to the university's policy of free
> admission, and keeps us with the excuse of "We're just a bunch of
> friends..." On the other hand, we can still provide a united front to
> university authorities, if they ever have a problem with the SCA,
> which has thankfully never come up, and a stable base for newcomers.
> 

Our group has "University approved" status, but frankly
we have no "university" group.  Our shire (we were at
one point a college) exists completely independently of
the university.  (No funds from university, no reports
to university, etc, although we _do_ feel free to hold
meetings on campus in one of the student lounges when
no other place seems more convienient  (we dont ask
about it, we just show up there))   I do not believe
that our one-time existance as a college had anything
to do with whether or not the university "approved". 
Someone please check official BoD policy on this, but
isn't college vs shire left completely up to the group
in question?  i.e. if they feel that they can keep a
sufficient constant number, they go shire, and if they
feel they are too likely to not keep enough people they
go college?  Is a "university" needed to call ones
group a college (in BoD rules)? 

Cavalamar
Shire of Afonlyn
Middle Kingdom
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:05:59 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Infant Wear


>In article <Mel7M3S00WB4RaD3IQ@andrew.cmu.edu> 
>David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
>>So, what does the week-dressed 3-week-old wear to her first event?
> 
>        Swaddling bands, what else? It's period, and it's supposed to keep
>them quiet :^)
>                                        -Ilaine

Eromene managed to sew up a tiny sideless surcoat with a big opening for
Kori's head that when over a white 'sack' dress -- in the same color and
with the same trim as her nursing dress.  Mother and daughter made
quite a nice impression, I believe.

So -- how do you _change_ babies in swaddling bands... ?

Take care -- Bertram the happy daddy zzzzzz.... <thunk>
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:52:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct2.175206.29377
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

In article 17777@acs.ucalgary.ca, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>      An *acceptable* (I do not mean terribly pretty) helm
>      runs around 150-300$ here. The reason is fairly simple,  
>      out here almost everyone makes their own armour. There
>      just isn't a big enough market to allow economy of
>      scale to lower the prices.
>
>      You can buy helms for 60$, as Cariadoc mentioned, but
>      you have to drive to Estrella or Pennsic to do it.


Why isn't mail order an option. Besides, if poeple make their own armor
then the price should be lower, as the only cost is the steel and rivets.
Is there nobody teaching armor making. I recall Torquil (sp?) telling me
that he had been teaching stuff and he has very nice looking equipment.

>
>>I do confess, Cariadoc is right.  I err on the side of gothic
>>armour, so you won't see me in anything less than 15th century.
>
>      And I salute you for it. Speaking as one who wore
>      milanese 1420 (though leather/metal composite)
>      weighing in over 90lbs, I like to see anyone with
>      the gumption to cart that much ironmongery about
>      the field.
>

If your persona would be wearing that type of armor it is fine, but hardly 
required for anyone from that time period. There are many options those
who were poor in period got by in armor that was less expensive to make
and very suited to what we do.


>
>     Here in Montengarde, that side of heavy saddle skirting
>     will run between 150-200$, and that's getting a good 
>     deal from MyFriendTheWholesaler (and if you think he
>     gets a bottle of good scotch for christmas, you're right)


Why not do as Caridoc said Call the Leather Company there is a branch in
Colorado, and mail order it. One side of saddle skirting shipped to your
door for under a $100, and save the whiskey.


Sir Brian
Meridies
From: mike@srv8700.micros.COM ("Michael J. Lonski")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Horse (yak) flesh
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:41:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: msi8500.9209290841.aa15799
Organization: The Internet

Corun writes...
>                 Anyway, Lilianne built a beautiful palomino hippocampus
>which is her device, while I built that sturdy beast of burden  used by the 
>Mongols, the yak. I have to admit, we were quite a sight.

And a most wonderous yak it was, the fine lines and noble breeding of it
evident to all present.

And to connect this with another thread...

A Rapier tournament was held at the Palio, described as a "fight in the
streets".  This was run similar to what someone previously called a
"token tourney" and was greatly enjoyed.  Being a very new free scholar
(authorized light fighter), I enjoyed the discussions after my defeats with
the more experienced fighters in which they graciously took the time to
explain what was done and give some on-the-spot instruction.  It was pleasant
not to have any kind of time pressure involved to hurry things along.  Of
course there were only about 7 fighters and 3 marshalls.  I'm sure that this
wouldn't work nearly as well with a larger list. Eh bien...

Bidding you all a most pleasant day,

Edan Aylwin,
jongleur ordinaire

-- 
Michael Lonski (address mail to: mikel@micros.com) 301-497-6134
Micros Systems, Inc., R&D, 12000 Baltimore Avenue, Beltsville, MD 20705  

Juggling - the art of consistently dropping thrown objects