From: peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Storyteller System (Was:  WereVamp->Ars)
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:06:50 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Oct6.151740.28086@news.uiowa.edu>, urrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.181936@cs.man.ac.uk> peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake) rites:
>>In article <1992Oct5.140518.8028@news.uiowa.edu>, urrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
Original bogus point deleted
>>Powerful characters are not as powerful as they 'ought' to be because
>>rule glitches foul them up.  It's pretty easy to make difficulty 10s,
>>see my example in my first post.  You can make a *starting* character
>>that you have to roll a 10 to wound.  Give him Willpower 9 or 10 and
>>he can slug it out with Chicago's finest, give him a few XPs and
>>Protean and he will rip them to pieces.  Sure society will get him
>>eventually, but you shouldn't be able to make such a character
>>(that makes the rules fall apart) so easily.

Stuff that I agree with deleted.

>Second, yes, you can make starting characters who can flout the
>rules of Kine society with relative impunity.  Relative to
>humans, that is.  It's incredibly important for a Vampire GM to
>remember that humans aren't the enforcers of civilized behavoir
>in this world.  Other vampires are.  Society won't get that guy
>in your example, the Camarilla will.  And damned quick, too, if
>he's showing off his nature to that degree.

When I said society I meant *VAMPIRE* society, isn't that obvious?
(Apparently not to some people :-)
Still human society is ultimately more dangerous :-)  I never
even thought to mention that.  Thanks for the reminder.

>And, finally, if you're playing Vampire with munchkins who 
>don't know how to roleplay...you're scrod.  The system requires
>good roleplayers, people who will react well when the Prince of
>the city tells them that he'll destroy everything they hold
>dear if they don't cooperate.  A player who isn't willing to
>enter into the spirit of the system can blow the whole thing 
>out of the water.

Did I say I was?  Don't make assumptions about stuff that's irrelevant
to the point here.  Sure we can all slag Munchkins, that's not what I'm
on about.  The point is by trying to create a certain type of character
concept you can accidentally create a *monster*.  On the other hand
NPCs and characters that you can create that look strong because they
have high stats and lots of high disciplines can easily fall to such a
monster.  Furthermore *any* vampire can spend blood points to increase
stats in combat.  Spend a few and put your Stamina up to 7 and you are
tough to wound.  If you do such a thing are you a Munchkin?  Not
necessarily I think.  Fact is Sta 7 is a million times better than Sta
6 while Sta 8 is *no* better than 7 at all!  This is not caused by
Munchkins, this is caused by lousy rules and you don't have to be a
Munchkin to appreciate that.

Stuff about what roleplaying fun vampire is, deleted.

Sure Vampire is a good *idea* but the execution stinks.
When I pay money for crap rules I get angry.  Like I said in my
first post.  I could've ripped off Anne Rice just as uncreatively
as White Wolf did and paid nothing.  I paid for a complete system
what I got was dreck.
--
Peter Wake
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy