From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Trumped-up charges against Suzanne. Demurrer #1.
Keywords: kill, murder, translation, homicide
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:39:43 GMT

<nyikos.718487778@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
><1992Oct1.064201.767@netcom.com> gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>><nyikos.717631317@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>...
>
>>>Today I begin with a charge that is best handled by demurrer.  It is the
>>>charge of not being *au fait* with the latest biblical translations.
...
>>>True the charge may be, but hardly something on which to hang a serious
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

**********
Note: Peter agrees with me, but goes on trying to *defend* Suzanne anyway.
**********

>>>accusation of hypocrisy, or whatever, on Suzanne.
...
[Suzanne and "thou shalt not kill/murder"]
>>>>                                                  Sure even though God said
>>>>"Thou Shalt Not Kill", Hitler chose to kill anyway.   
>>>
>>>** She repeats it - obviously not a typo.
>>>
>>>COMMENTS:
>>>1. For centuries, English translations of the bible (almost?) invariably
>>>had "Thou shalt not kill."  It is only in the last decade or two that
>>>translations have appeared putting "commit murder" in place of "kill."
>
>>Strange how I found out the actual translation 20 years ago when engaged
>>in bible study for a few years,
>
>How old would that make you, I wonder?  

Old enough to not be fooled by sophmoric argumentation and assertion.

>                                        You seem remarkably immature
>in a lot of ways.

Not in the ways that count.  BTW, your "velcro/teflon" comment was SO
mature.

>Anyway, I question your competence to make judgments as to what is and
>is not the "actual translation" of Exodus 20:13.

That's nice.  I question your competance to be defending someone who you
admit doesn't even want you to defend her.

As a matter of anecdote, in Cecil B. Demille's epic, "The Ten
Commandments" starring Charleton Heston, as Moses receives the tablets
Demille's "God" states "Thou shalt not commit murder", I believe.  As the
movie was made just before I was born it would appear that *some*
translations were interpreting it this way almost 40 years ago.

[obfuscation deleted]
>>>3. Did the ancient Hebrew expression now translated "commit murder"
>>>really have the same meaning as the modern phrase does?  Think of
>>>how vastly different that society was from ours, and how much the
>>....
>
>>More obfuscation.  If we continue down this line of reasoning you can
>>invalidate the entire Judaic-Islamic-Christian religion.
>
>In your eyes, maybe, but that is a moot point anyway because you
>are, in your own words, a "professional" atheist.

Heck, I've been invalidating Christianity for years.  It's farely easy
actually.  However, my statement is not invalidated by by lack of
religion.

>>>Analogy: the bible, a few lines later, says "Thou Shalt not Steal"
>>>[Or does the new translation read, "Thou Shalt not Commit Grand 
>>>Larceny?"] 
>
>>Your remark mocks Judaism.
>
>Some "professional" atheist you are.  You don't even know which things
>to target.

Does this imply that I *should* target Judaism?

>The only thing my remark mocks is self-important people who think
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>their own translations are "God-given" [substitute atheistic equivalent
>here:___________________________].
...

So you admit to trying to mock Suzanne.

>[I am reminded of an old joke: "If the King James Version was good
>enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me."  In your own way you
>are being just as silly in your continued attack on Suzanne for not
>accepting your favorite translation as holy writ.]

I have not continued this attack on Suzanne.  *You* have continued an
attack on me for my posting of actual statements Suzanne has made on the
net, with their logical conclusions.  If Suzanne would just admit that she
is a hypocrite and a liar we could drop this whole mess.

>>>           and the punishments for transgressions were and are in
>>>a greatly sliding scale.  It can be the same for abortion, depending
>>>on the stage of development of the fetus.  I would seriously 
>>>consider calling the aborting of a viable fetus murder, but the 
>>>aborting of a six-week fetus could best be treated as a felony of
>>>lesser import (say, carrying a maximum penalty of 6 years and $6,000).
>
>>Unless it was Suzanne's daughter, then you'd just throw the book at the
>>abortionist, right? 
>
>Reading comprehension time.  "the aborting" refers to something the
>abortionist does.

Hmm, so "accesory to a murder" or contracting a hitman is not punishable
by law.  Is that what you are saying?

>And I wouldn't throw the book, just the page that says the penalty is 
>6 years and $6,000, or whatever.

Well Suzanne would throw the book at the abortionist while refusing to
expose her daughter to the laws which *SHE* advocates apply to all _other_
women.  I believe that's called *hypocrisy*.

>> I can hardly wait for the rest of your "apologies"
>
>Glad you put that in quotes.  They are "apologias," not apologies.
>[Apologia is the root for the term "Apologetics", as in "Christian
>Apologetics," which is anything but apologetic about the Christian faith.]

No, I meant "apologies". You seem to be "excusing" (your own words, I
believe) Suzanne for not knowing or being aware of translations of a book
that she bases her life upon.  This is the same book that she would like
to have supported by law.  You're just trying to "tut, tut" it away, but
I'm afraid your attempts to obfuscate have not hidden the truth about
Suzanne.


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boytoy of Susan, Muriel, 
Cathi, Nora, Jennifer, Sarah, Lynn, Diana (catwoman), Diana (Sorceress), and
Beth and married to a goddess among women, and proud of it.
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.