From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Civilization bandwagon
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:21:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.210458.18754@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:
>In article <BzD145.4pE@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>|> 
>What should we call people who insist on Islamic way which has clear intentions
>of discrimination by definition?. The fact that you ignore it shows that you
>are not sincere and continue to ignore non-Muslims.

As far as NonMuslims are concerned, an Islamic government will not interfere
in their affairs. Islamic law will not mean reducing their freedom (at least
in my opinion), unless of course usury and wine are considered fundamemtal
freedom. Well you cannot buy or sell drugs in the U.S either, most people
would consider this a different matter while alcohol and interest 
are responsible for far many death and broken families than drugs.
>
>|> >
>|> All third world countries especially Arab and African countries are worse
>|> than most other governments. I can say that with certainty.
>
>Is that entirely the fault of the governments?, I doubt that.

The governments themselves are the problem not the cause of the 
problem. The causes of the problem are the following in order:
1)The people of the country who are not motivated enough to change them.
2)Current Imperialistic foreign intelligence
3)Former colonial control and the way things were set up at the so-called
independence of those countries.


>
>|> Now  that is a new definition of an Islamic government coming from a christian.
>|> Sorry, my view of an Islamic government is a democratic government with an
>|> Islamic constitution. The parlementary system in my opinion is the closest
>|> one to the Islamic system.
>
>Is this form of democratic system in the Qur'an or is allowed by the Hadiths, 
>sunnahs etc.?.

There are principles in Quoran and Sunnah that cannot be applied with all
other systems. A democratic system is the sub-optimal system that can apply
those principles. There is nothing in Quran that prescribes what you claimed as
the only Islamic government.
>
>|> I do not know why you keep telling me what I desire.
>|> Islam's first declaration of faith is a fight against conservative attitudes.
>|> It is against following ancestors, it is for renewal. If it was conservative
>|> The prophet (p.b.u.h) would not have predicted that there will be every
>|> century someone who will RENEW the religion for Muslims.
>
>How could you not be conservative when you desire the application of Islamic
>laws and consult the Qur'an for every situation that arises. Furthermore, you
>want to apply that to non-Muslims.

The quoran is not as explicit as you seem to think in political matters. It only
gives principles. A conservative person applies the understanding of his 
ancestors to those principles, a liberated Muslim is not bounded by them.
>
>|> 
>|> Do you notice that I prefer living in Canada to living in Saudi Arabia?
>
>Please tell us why?. I suppose Canada is the only country to have Islamic
>democracy as you desire.

I thought the answer is obvious, because I can live as a Muslim here without
interference from others. You should understand from my choice that I respect
freedom and choice more than conservative societies that impose their way of
thinking on others. I refuse to live in a society where they spend 30 mn
every day in the T.V news talking about their King/dictator and how he went
to the bathroom (exageration here). Anybody who sees nothing wrong with the
political system in Arab countries is a pathetic worthless human being.
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic