HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller)
Subject: Re: Question about this Newsgroup
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:40:28 GMT

It seems clear that we need at least one more newsgroup, where those who choose
to pursue the discussion about the meaning and implications of the word "craft"
can do so without wasting bandwidth in the metalworking group.

I propose the title:

 "rec.crafts.metalworking.asinine_discussions_about_the_name_of_the_newsgroup"

(or should that be:

 "rec.metalworking.asinine_discussions_about_the_name_of_the_newsgroup" ?)


Regards,

Jay Keller
Sunnyvale, California
badboy@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Re: Brass Casting 
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:01:50 GMT

In article <C0GE5v.C4A@oryx.com> xdepec@chevy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (preston e chaney jr) writes:
>I am interested is casting a Brass Western style belt buckle.
>To this end I made a woodcarving of the design and made a 
>plaster of paris (negative) mold of the woodcarving. As a test
>I melted linotype metal with a welding torch and dripped it into
>the mold with satisfactory results. I am now wondering if I can
>cast brass ( at 1700+ deg.) into a plaster mold. Also is there a special
>Brass for casting or can I melt brass rod. Is the temp critical or 
>can I melt the brass in a crucible with the welding torch and pour.
>If special supplies are required for casting where can they be obtained.

This should work OK if you're not too fussy.

Some refinements:  - using a flux will collect the impurities into a
		skimmable scum on the surface of the puddled metal.

		- mix sand with the plaster to give it some refractory
		advantage over ordinary plaster

Foundry supplies are found in the Yellow Pages.  They should have flux,
which most often comes as a sort of pill you toss into the pot just
before pouring.  It's probably not worth it to mess with it if you
have clean and pure material to begin with, not old greasy bearing
sleeves, etc.  Someone who knows more about this than me could probably
suggest a household or lab substance that works for flux.

For your purpose I can't see what difference it would make what kind 
of brass you use - there are many.  The alloy must be chosen with
more care when you require strength, ductility, thin sections,
corrosion resistance, etc.

John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Re: Thread Tapping Gizzmos
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:34:51 GMT

In article <C0BDqI.DzC@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>I am in the market for a drill press tapping attachment for small
>screws up to 1/4 - 20.  The only thing I come up with is a $170
>gizzmo and an even more expensive one in the McMaster Carr catalog.  Surly there is something less expensive out there.
>
>I found that a cheapo screwdriver adapter works ok for small threats but
>I have wrecked three of them on 1/4 threads in aluminum.
>
>Anyone got any ideas?

  Perhaps you need to use a better tapping fluid.

--henry schaffer
From: mcbryde@navier.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 05:40:54 GMT
Organization: UH Dept of Math
NNTP-Posting-Host: navier.math.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan04.225621.10823@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
>In article <145003@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes:
>>Please don't regard this as an insult, but if you call yourself a craftsman,
>>you are saying that you have "manual skills but no higher competence."  If
>>this doesn't suit you, then maybe you are now more than a craftsman.

I'm afraid that the common usage among my friends and the OED differs with you.
According to the OED one who is embodied of craftmanship demonstrates "a skill
in clever or artistic workmanship; skilled workmanship". I rather like the Texas
law that makes it illegal to call yourself an engineer unless you have a degree
in engineering. In my view, as an example, there are machinists. The ones who
are good deserve respect as craftsmen. And I suppose the ones who are competent,
but only, are (grudgingly) deserving of a lesser degree of respect. An engineer
who can also perform the duties of a machinist is deserving of whatever respect
he earns for his engineering abilities, separate from the respect he earns for
his capabilities as a machinist. (You can also substitute 'artist' for 
'engineer' in the previous sentence.) If you can cite some believable source
for you rather interesting definition of "craftsman" (some reputable source
that includes something to the effect of "no higher competence") I'm certainly
willing to listen.

later,
jack

>Okay, I give up!  You've convinced me!  :')

not me
--
jack      mcbryde@karazm.math.uh.edu    * All I ask of Thee, Lord
* Christ died for our sins.  Dare we    * Is to be a drinker and fornicator
* make his martyrdom meaningless by     * An unbeliever and a sodomite
* not committing them? - Jules Feiffer  * And then to die. - Claude de Chauvigny
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: mike@nyquist.bellcore.com (Mike Lukacs 21341)
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 18:28:09 GMT

In article <1idkrvINNfpk@crcnis1.unl.edu> vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu (victor porguen) writes:
>jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes:
>
>> I recommend you hit the local pawn shops and see if anybody has a plumber's
>>torch outfit - a small acetylene bottle, a gauge and torch. I got one for 
>>$60 and that wasn't a fabulous deal. No O2, just acetylene/air, but hot 
>>enough for brazing, silver soldering, etc. and quite a bit hotter than 
>>propane/air.
>>-- 
>I second that. Those small acetylene/air torches are superb, 
>inexpensive and quite controllable. The acetylene tanks are
>refillable. Originally, they are intended for sweat-soldering
>copper tubing such as used in bulding water pipes, etc., because
>copper conducts heat away so well that other torches never get
>to heat the pipe up sufficiently. 
>
>and the flame can be regulated quite well.

If you can get hold of an acetylene `B' tank
and regulator cheaply, AIRCO makes several sizes
of "Turbo" (swirl combustion) torch tip for acetylene/air.
These use more gas per minute to produce very high BTU
outputs in a small volume, ideal for brazing large workpieces.
If your workpiece is very large, (like a locomotive boiler)
you may need several torch heads to heat it sufficiently.
		
DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed    | M. E. Lukacs  NVC-3X-330
in the above are my own, and not       | Digital Video Research
those of Bell Communications Research. | Bell Communications Research(BELLCORE)
By Law, BELLCORE may not have such     | 331 Newman Springs Road
opinions; and if they did, they would  | Red Bank, New Jersey 07701-7040
not tell you for free.  And I am not   | (908) 758-2876 FAX: 758-4371
the person who would be giving out     |
official opinions anyway.  And unless  | mike@nyquist.bellcore.com
you can PROVE that this isn't a        | "First 'mike' on the UUCP network"
forgery, I did not say this.           |       (ca.1974)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Eye shielding? (was: Propane torch recommendations 
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:55:41 GMT


With what torches (short of welding torches) is a green eyeshield needed?
From: jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Magazines or book recommendations
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:00:12 GMT

I ask this question right before Xmas and then went on vacation so I 
missed any responses.  

Are there any good magazines out there that are for metalworking? This
is for lathe, mill, or other types of working metals.  

What are good machinists (lathe/mills) books for the beginner to
intermediate hobbyist?

Thanks,
Jim        jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account)
Subject: Re: Brass Casting 
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 17:12:22 EST

In article <C0GE5v.C4A@oryx.com> xdepec@chevy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (preston e chaney jr) writes:
>the mold with satisfactory results. I am now wondering if I can
>cast brass ( at 1700+ deg.) into a plaster mold. Also is there a special
>Brass for casting or can I melt brass rod. Is the temp critical or 
>can I melt the brass in a crucible with the welding torch and pour.

Just use rod; A torch will not provide the BTU's unless you have
an BIG heating tip, so use a torch and a charcoal fire-
heat the mold up in a charcoal fire, heat your brass in a charcoal fire with
the torch providing more heat. have the upper surface of the brass
covered to prevent heat loss. The temperature should be maybe 100 deg
higher than melting point.. so pour say 30seconds after ALL of the brass
has melted- you'll have to life the cover ove rthe brass and check it with a
rod. Regular plaster will work fine for one pouring.

The above is NOT meant as general casting instructions, but just
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee)
Subject: Re: Firepot on a forge (coal/gas/charcoal)
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:22:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.082808.2015@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
>Greetings:
>while it's running at full blast.  On the other hand, I've seen
>Mankel forges which sound like jet engines, take an hour to reach
>working temperature and can drain a 100lb propane tank without much
>effort.  The difference is raw capacity - the Sandia forge box is
>4" x 12" x 14" while a big Mankel is huge.  The bottom line is that
>both coal and gas work, but both have advantages and disadvantages.
>You can get cooking faster over coal, i.e., less capital investment,

My home made forge is has a body that is two feet long and ten inches in 
diameter.  I run a blower off it, mine is very quiet and I can run all
day at a craft show from a 20 lb tank.  The thing I like the best about it
is when I am doing production work I can put 10 pieces of steel in it and
have them all hot at the same time and not burn any of them up.  This nice
for doing craft shows where I often have to stop working to service a 
customer.  When this forge was demo'd at a MAMBA meeting the fellow said
"once you go gas you will never go back"  He is right.  I went to a seminar
back in fall, spent three days working over coal forges.  I almost kissed
that little forge when I got home.  One other plus I have found using 
gas is I can have it up in running in minutes. It only takes a few minutes
to get it hot to work and a few minutes to cool off enough to pack up.
Where I live coal is a very hard thing to come by. Every gas station fills
propane tanks. This also makes it a more attractive set up.

Happy hunting 

Dale

Village Blacksmith
From: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM (John Kopf,D,6305)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: where to find clock parts?
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:16:05 GMT
Reply-To: kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Another source is:

Mason & Sullivan Co.
586 Higgins Crowell Road
West Yarmouth
Cape Cod, MA 02673

1-800-933-3010

John
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:56:20 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1993Jan04.225621.10823@i88.isc.com>, jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
> 
Maybe that's my hangup - I generally feel that
> an engineer should be capable of the craft, or at least have some
> practical knowlege of it.  But then, in this group, that's probably
> preaching to the choir...
> 
I wouldn't call it a hangup, I'd call it sweet reason.  The old way, coming
up as a craftsman, and then expanding your horizons, is still the best
way.  Gives you a reality base.  As you learn more, you learn why you were
doing things the way you did them.  Sometimes you learn that some old
practices were BS.  For instance, old swordmakers used to advise quenching
a sword in the body of a healthy male slave - this is not a joke, this
barbaric practice is reported in several memoires of the times.  A modern
writer suggested a more acceptable interpretation: quench your sword in
brine at 98 degrees F.
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Brass Casting
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:50:59 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <C0GE5v.C4A@oryx.com>, xdepec@chevy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (preston e chaney jr) writes:
> 
> I am interested is casting a Brass Western style belt buckle.

See the books on casting by Ammen (I think I remember it right) from Tab
Books.  Regarding your proposed methods - there are four areas you should
research before proceeding.
1) The actual "plaster" used is a combination of plaster of paris and other
refractory materials.  It is not simply hardware plaster.
2) As several other posters noted, the mold is burnt out before use.
3) Brass produces zinc fumes when melted, being a mixture of copper and
zinc.  This is a safety hazard.  As another poster mentioned, there are
lots of different brasses.  You should be aware of which one you are using
so you can take precautions.
4) You may need a riser to ensure you get a properly solidified product.  See
Ammen on the subject of risers and gates.
From: e_p@unl.edu (edgar pearlstein)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Chime tube lengths
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:54:56 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

razzell@cs.ubc.ca (Dan Razzell) writes:

>In article <1iuqcqINNpk5@news.cerf.net>,
>jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:

>> When making wind chimes or whistles the lenght of the tube controls
>> the pitch. Does anyone have a method for determining lengths of the tube for
>> a given pitch?

>The second point you probably already know, but it's worth stating just
>for the record.  If one chime is half the length of another, its pitch
>frequency will be twice as high.  That is, the two will be exactly an
>octave apart.  Since there are twelve tones in the chromatic scale, a

         I think this is wrong, for the case of chimes.  It's true that the 
frequency goes inversely with the length for an organ pipe, or for 
LONGITUDINAL vibrations of a rigid object.  But the chime vibration is 
primarily transverse, and in that case the pitch goes inversely with the 
SQUARE of the length.  So a chime half as long will resonate TWO octaves
higher.  To raise the pitch by one octave, divide the length by the square root 
of two.
From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Drill Press Arbor
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:22:46 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <1il81sINN325@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ag900@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Burris) writes:
>
>Is there any way to prevent a M.T. drill press arbor from slipping out
>of the spindle ?
>
>-- 
>ag900@cleveland.freenet.edu
>

Be sure that there are no dings or burrs, on either the MT shank or in
the spindle socket.. If the shank is dinged, use a fine stone or fine
file and stroke lightly along the axis of the shank while rotating it
by hand. If the socket is burred, you may need to ream it slightly
with a morse taper reamer. Also be sure that the tang at the end of
the shank is not bent/twisted. Sometimes I've found it helpful to
periodically clean the socket with acetone, and rub a bit of chalk
lightly on a _dry_ shank before inserting it..


"All of my tools _subtract_ metal.. None of them add :-) "
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jb@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Al and Steel : some questions
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 07:49:38 GMT

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: tarumph@uncc.edu (Timothy Allen Rumph) writes:
: : >
: : There was some naturally occuring Al used for show armour that is period. It was very
: :      rare though, since aluminum was more valuable than gold at that time. This may
: :      seem strange but Al is made by applying large amounts of electricity to bauxite,
: :      only a recent development.
: 
: Are you sure about this? I do not recall ever reading about any elemental
: aluminum ever being found. 

Lighting strikes to beach sand.   Very rare...
I remember reading about a royal set of aluminum "silverware".

Charles M. Hall discovered the electrolysis method in 1886, independantly
two months later the french chemist Heroult discovered it also.

Jeff Bartlett
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 22:56:21 GMT

In article <145003@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes:
>Please don't regard this as an insult, but if you call yourself a craftsman,
>you are saying that you have "manual skills but no higher competence."  If
>this doesn't suit you, then maybe you are now more than a craftsman.

No insult taken.  Maybe my usage of "craftsman" is as inaccurate as
the common usage connotation applied to "craft"....

>> 
>> Maybe I'll just sit back, stack some firebrick around my workstation,
>> and see if I can build the first Usenet-flame-fired forge.
>> 
>
>Now come on!  I haven't flaming you nor am I trying to flame you.  If you want

No, I didn't take this as flamage (yet :') ), but I did appear to be pumping
the bellows with some red embers in the forge...

>to see what flames are, go read news.groups.  The net admins set an example for
>flaming there that is probably only exceeded in soc.religion.* and
>sci.environment.


Nah, I live most of my net.life in rec.motorcycles, where flaming is
part of everyday existence...

Maybe my comments about my grandfather would have been more correct to
say that, despite being an engineer of sorts, he still maintained
a high level of craftsmanship.  I've known a few engineers who were
brilliant, but had either discarded (or never had) the attention to
detail necessary to realize their designs without an able craftsman
to do the work.  Maybe that's my hangup - I generally feel that
an engineer should be capable of the craft, or at least have some
practical knowlege of it.  But then, in this group, that's probably
preaching to the choir...


Okay, I give up!  You've convinced me!  :')
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              Lachman Technology, Incorporated
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
 __       There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet,
 \/                   followed by the words "Daddy!  Yay!"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: "Gary A. Woodward" <p00140@psilink.com>
Subject: photochemical machining/etching
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:30:42 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

Not too long ago I posted about photo-lith etching.  More than a few 
people helped me.  More, still wanted to know what I found.  I am 
posting my findings.

There is an Institue;

The Photochemical Machining Institute 215.825.2506.

There is a text:

Principles and Practice of Photochemical Machining by Dr. David Allen
it can be bought for $51.00@ 1.800.488.2665.

There are many sources of supply;

chemicals-KTI a unit of Union Carbide Corp 408.733.6877
this co has a good primer on this subject entitled "Photofabrication
methods with KTI Macro Photoresists.

The photo art is an issue that I have yet to deal with if there are any 
suggestions please.

There are also many listings in "Thomas Register" in the group Milling-
photochemical.

Regards.


Gary
 
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:27:46 GMT

In <1993Jan5.223554.25234@mlb.semi.harris.com> jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes:

> I recommend you hit the local pawn shops and see if anybody has a plumber's
>torch outfit - a small acetylene bottle, a gauge and torch. I got one for 
>$60 and that wasn't a fabulous deal. No O2, just acetylene/air, but hot 
>enough for brazing, silver soldering, etc. and quite a bit hotter than 
>propane/air.

I got one of those little "pony" size rigs too -- paid to have the
regulators on it checked by a welding store that carried them, sinche
they hadn't been used for a while.  NOTE that pressure bottles expire --
there is a month-year date stamped into the metal. You'll have to have
a tank hydrostatically tested for leaks before it's refilled if it's past
date (check the cost where you'd get it refilled).

Acetylene scares me since it'll go bang spontaneously if it leaks into
an enclosed space (most welding shops I know have a picture up on
the wall of somebody's car turned inside out alongside the cautions to
always transport and store it without getting it in an enclosure.

I'm switching my little rig to propane-oxygen, and maybe will back down to
propane-compressed-air when the oxy runs out.

Wear eye protection.
From: ralls@cisco.com (Vicki Ralls)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:28:15 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: lager.cisco.com


Rio Grande sells mostly to the jewlerly trade. However they have a
complete line of torches in thier tools catalog. They also have a complete
line of silver and silver solder. I have found the prices to be reasonable 
and the quality good.

Thier customer service number is 1-800-533-3299.


-vicki

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Eye shielding? (was: Propane torch recommendations 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 03:29:28 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts) writes:


>With what torches (short of welding torches) is a green eyeshield needed?

Depends on what  you're doing.  The FLAME of a combustion (as opposed
to electric arc) torch does not generate harmful light.  The materials
being heated DO.  If you are gas welding steel or other material
that must be heated to incandescence, any color attenuating lens 
will work fine.  The rays are not harmful in the sense of having
a large UV content but they are umpleasant to look at and the IR
radiation can dry your eyes and make them sore.  therefore you 
want to choose the attenuation necessary to make your vision 
comfortable but no more.  If you are brazing or silver-soldering
something using a flux that emits a strong line, frequency-selective
lens are called for.  A cobalt-blue lens, for example, will make the
bright yellow sodium flame of most brazing fluxes and hot glass 
practically transparent.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking