HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Depthsounders
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:56:01 GMT


I had a rotary/neon-type instrument on my Cal 20. When I traded
up to an Olson 25, I ended up with a digital readout. I much
prefer the older model because it allowed me to do my own
"pattern recognition" on the returning echos, instead of
relying on whatever algorithm the digital unit uses. Here's
what I really want: a cockpit-mounted LCD display showing
the returning echos and associated depths. No moving parts, low
power consumption, programmable display. Anyone out there
seen such a thing?


Stefan Michalowski
stefan@sunrise.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@FOZZIE.NRL.NAVY.MIL (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:59:38 GMT

Well, yes, I was out both days.  However, on Sunday I ripped my main as
well as several other people so I am told.  (My main is 19 years old and
was not terribly well cared for in its youth, I expect a complete blowout
before the end of the year.)  It was below a reef point so I sailed home
with the reef in, sure beat motoring!

Actually, I really enjoyed both days of sailing!  Working on fitting a
main I picked up to fit.  It is a little small, but with fall comming, it
won't hurt me.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Subject: Re: porta-potti
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:09:42 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <25AUG199210313983@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>, ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (WAY too much sail up...) writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.134214.27570@cs.brown.edu>, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes...
> >I'm not at all certain how true this is. There's a *lot* of boating traffic on
> >the Chesapeake, and the upper reaches of the Bay don't flush out (pardon the
> >phrase) very often, as indicated by their increased salinity, relative to the
> >lower Bay, during the summer. I'm not certain how serious the buildup of feces
> >is.
> 
> Yes, I would say it could be a problem. I don't see why someone with a
> removeable porta-potti would dump it overboard. That's lazy and inconsiderate.
> Most marina's have a portable head dump. Of course I pee over the rail and 
> when cleaning the bottom all the time, so maybe I should shut up. 
> 

Pee is relatively sterile, so it really doesn't hurt much.  But I think dumping
solid waste is bad in any bays, lakes, etc.  It has lots of bad bacteria, etc.
and it's really not that hard to contain it and dispose of it properly.

IMHO.


-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: advice for Hobie mast repair.
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:22:24 GMT

I have an old Hobie 16 I bought CHEAP, that works just fine for me.
I'm no sailor but I'm having lots of fun learning.   You folks here
have been a great help.

The cast aluminum plug at the base of the mast has come loose, the
rivets have torn out.  Is there some reason I shouldn't put some
spot aluminum welds on it to reattach plug?

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the mast should not be absolutely
water tight.  Upon tipping the boat over, in the time it takes to
get it righted, the mast will take on a little water, it should be
able to drain from the base albeit slowly. Therefore I'll put some
spot welds in the places near the former rivets.

Advice appreciated before I blunder onward.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dbyrne@ldgo.columbia.edu (deidre byrne)
Subject: Re: Winter Boat Storage
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:45:17 GMT

> I saw a clever arrangement once:  A sailboat stored like this, except
> that the tarp was not tied down to the cradle.  Instead, weights were
> hung (gallon plastic milk jugs filled with water) from the eyelets
> along each side of the tarp. 

Sounds pretty good, but my concern is this:

What happens when you have frozen milk jugs and a 90mph wind? Our boat
was outside in such a gale, and, with the tarp tied, survived safe and
sound.  I would worry that a strong enough wind could set the milk jugs
to beating against the hull or trailer.  Using longer rope would merely
increase the chance that the jugs would swing about and then the rope
would chafe against the hull.  

But it's an interesting idea.  Was the boat you saw in a particularly
sheltered spot, or in the open?

                                 -- Deirdre

------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are more things in    dbyrne@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu  
Heaven and Earth, Horatio,   Deirdre Byrne
than are dreamt of           202-A Oceanography  
in your philosophy."         Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
                             Palisades, NY 10964
Hamlet I, v, 166             (914) 359-2900 x545 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Subject: Re: water pollution (re:porta-potti)
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:25:37 GMT

In article <25965@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, taylor@me62.lbl.gov (James Taylor)
wrote:
> 
> In article <la4hkdINNpr@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
> >I agree with other posters that sewage should be treated 
> >before entering the water.  
> >
> >At the same time, I get the feeling that environmental
> >zealots spend too much time pursuing boaters and
> >boatyards and not enough (none?) tackling what seems to me
> >to be the _big_ pollution source in urban areas such as SF
> >Bay:  runoff from the streets.  
> >
> >BILL COURINGTON
> >
> 
> WRONG! You are very much mistaken on the activities of environmental
> organizations. We spend very little time (none?) concerning ourselves
> with pleasure boaters and the pollution that they cause, that after 
> all is a job for us sailors. We are trying to control the discharge 
> of toxic chemicals from boatyards. We are not trying to put anyone
> out of business, we are trying to work with the boating industry to
> create safer marine products. We are also trying to inform the public
> about street runoff and how their daily actions contribute to a 
> serious pollution problem. This is a monumentious task due to a 
> limited budget, and a public that refuses to accept responsibility
> for thier actions and lifestyle. If you are as concerned about the
> oceans as you would like people to believe, then I suggest you call 
> one of our environmental groups and ask them how you can help to 
> control street runoff. If not then at least stop harassing those of 
> us who are pursuing a clearer and healthier planet.

If you really consider boatyards to be a MAJOR source of pollution
(comparable to sewer discharge, etc), then I humbly suggest that you
represent a classic example of a fanatic - one who has lost sight of his
objective, and has redoubled his efforts :.)

-Pete
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tde@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.d.esh)
Subject: FAQ?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:42:16 GMT


A friend of mine is interested in buying a boat but doesn't know much
about them.

Is there a FAQ for this newsgroup?  If so, could someone send it to me
or tell be how to get a copy?

Thanks
Tom Esh
From: burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Hobie Cat Repair Question:  Installing a new traveller car
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:24:28 GMT
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Originator: burzycki@zax

This past weekend, the slide on the bottom of my main traveller car on my 
Hobie 16 got destroyed. When it happened, the car got jammed in the track and 
I had to pull real hard to get it to move. When it did move, the whole car 
came right out of the track.

I called New Hampshire Hobie Cat and ordered a new slide (heavy duty black
plastic with metal rollers). They said that in order to re-install the car, I 
had to drill out 2 rivets so that I could slide the car back into the track.  

My question is this: Which 2 rivets? Either it's 2 of the rivets holding 
the rear crossbar to the corner casting or it's the 2 rivets on the end of the 
traveller track that hold the track to the crossbar.

Does anyone out there have any experience in installing new traveller cars on 
Hobies?
-- 
Mike Burzycki                             burzycki@sky.dnet.teradyne.com
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Chesapeake Bay Net Gathering
Date: 27 Aug 1992 14:46:54 GMT
Organization: Invictus
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

In article <137@cherise.UUCP> cbnet-request@cherise.sandr.com (Bob Parkinson) writes:
>
>This is the LAST post to rec.boats concerning the Chesapeake Bay Net 
>Gathering. I apologize for the wasted(?) bandwidth.

No need to apologize.  I'm interested to see how it is going.  I sure hope there is
a follow-up report.

So, when are we going to have a San Francisco Bay Net Gathering?

Dudley Gaman
Invictus
Pete's Harbor
Redwood City, CA
.
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:25:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1992Sep2.183921.17894@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.170615.24931@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist) writes:
>> 
>> One of the biggest myths is that there is a perception
>> of a huge amount of difference among the big selling
>> mass-produced recreational boats (Bayliner, SeaRay,
>> FourWinns, etc).  Their fundamental construction techniques,
>> including use of chopper guns and general low-tech materials
>> in the layup are very close.  I would be *very* surprised
>> if Baja indeed didn't own a chopper gun, as suggested by
>> an earlier post.  We are talking big bucks to get a 
>> fundamentally better hull quality (Boston Whaler et al).
>
>by twin custom 502 cu in engines doing 80 mph for the past 4 years
>and the boat is still as tight as the day I bought it.  This boat has
>spends more time in the air than the water.  As far as

I think you hit the nail on the head...

For most applications, (God, I'm supporting Bayliner here??),
a bayliner will do just fine. There aren't many people who
want to do in excess of 70 MPH on the water, and those of
us who choose to have likely been around boats for more than
a little while. In that little while, we have learned that
this type of application requires a bit more solid constr-
uction (not to mention a serious amount of motor).

The average Joe with 2.4 kids just want to go for a ride,
and come back dry (with some money in his pocket). For those
who wish to go faster, the price is a little steeper.

Of course, when you start using a solidly built boat, your
perception of less-capable hardware changes. Personally, I
don't like most of the cheaper boat brands, because they do
flex and rattle. In my eyes, a real boat should fly 25 feet,
and the only thing rattling when you land should be your teeth
(or perhaps your knees).

-- Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion, of course...
From: newso584@Armstrong.EDU (Robert Newsome)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Sailboats
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:09:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA

Hi!  This question may seem naive, but I am a beginning boater and reader to
rec.boats.  I have been thinking about whether to purchase a sailboat or a
motorboat.  I think that I would like to have a sailboat, but I would like to
hear some advantages/disadvantages of one over the other.  Furthermore, if I
do decide to get a sailboat, what would be a good starter so that I can learn
to navigate, etc.  In addition, what books may I read to get better aquainted
with sailboats.  I have not been sailing yet, but my uncle has invited me to go
with him on a Hans Christiansen (sp??).  What kind of things should I pay 
most attention to?  Thanks for any information.  BTW, I would like a starter
around maybe 10-15K, any suggestions?

-Robert
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:32:30 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <187j32INN1vo@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
|> 
|> By "cheaper boat brands" I mean low-end {Bayliner, Maxxum, Sea Ray,
|> Four Winns, Chris Craft, Glassmaster, Glasspar, Glastron, did I
|> miss anyone?}.
|> 
|> Some of the best brand names I have ever seen are: Boston Whaler,
|> Grady-White, Mako, Stallion, and Malibu Skier. (Sorry, Gary...
|> I've never ridden in or driven a Baja.)
|> 

Interesting that your cheaper list includes brands with many types of boats
available while your best brands are fishing boats and a ski boat (sorry, I
don't know Stallion though..)

I looked at a lot of boats before I bought mine, and I did some research.

First, lets talk Brunswick Corp.  They own SeaRay, Mercury, Mariner and
US Marine.  US Marine owns Bayliner and Force, and I think Maxxum. From
my observations (mostly on land, although some test rides)
Cheap/entry level stuff=> Bayliner and Force
Just a little nicer => Arriva (Bayliner equipped with Mercury OB) and Maxxum
Very Nice (and acceptable) => SeaRay
Merc=Mariner, Force no where near as nice...

Now for OMC.  They own Johnson(=Evenrude), ChrisCraft, FourWinns, SeaSwirl,
and SunBird.
Sunbird is entry level, SeaSwirl is a step up, FourWinns is the conservative
high end and Chris Craft the sporty high end.  OMC seems to differ in that
their entry level boats are less fancy than Bayliner, and thus although plain,
appear less cheap because of fewer cheap plastic trim accessories.  Also,
FourWinns had two lines, plain and fancy.

I think Glastron is independant.

Anyway, after lots of looking and reading, I looked in the used market with
the following requirements:

Outboard > 90HP, BowRider 17-19foot

Johnson, Evinrude, Merc, Mariner, Yam. OK
SeaRay, FourWinns, possibly SeaSwirl.

Sure, none of these boats are commercial quality fishing boats such as a
Whaler, but that's not what I wanted. (And Whaler doesn't even make the style
of boat I wanted.)

Just my $.02




-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
From: Andrew.Stratton@cm.cf.ac.uk (Andrew F Stratton)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Narrow Boat and Computer.
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:18:27 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff

I am considering buying a narrow boat as a home (while I do a PhD), but I
am concerned that my PC clone wouldn't be up to it.  Any comments (good
or bad)?

	Thanks in advance,
	  Andy Stratton.
From: taylor@me62.lbl.gov (James Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: water pollution (re:porta-potti)
Date: 2 Sep 1992 20:55:42 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.15

In article <la4hkdINNpr@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>I agree with other posters that sewage should be treated 
>before entering the water.  
>
>At the same time, I get the feeling that environmental
>zealots spend too much time pursuing boaters and
>boatyards and not enough (none?) tackling what seems to me
>to be the _big_ pollution source in urban areas such as SF
>Bay:  runoff from the streets.  
>
>BILL COURINGTON
>

WRONG! You are very much mistaken on the activities of environmental
organizations. We spend very little time (none?) concerning ourselves
with pleasure boaters and the pollution that they cause, that after 
all is a job for us sailors. We are trying to control the discharge 
of toxic chemicals from boatyards. We are not trying to put anyone
out of business, we are trying to work with the boating industry to
create safer marine products. We are also trying to inform the public
about street runoff and how their daily actions contribute to a 
serious pollution problem. This is a monumentious task due to a 
limited budget, and a public that refuses to accept responsibility
for thier actions and lifestyle. If you are as concerned about the
oceans as you would like people to believe, then I suggest you call 
one of our environmental groups and ask them how you can help to 
control street runoff. If not then at least stop harassing those of 
us who are pursuing a clearer and healthier planet.
From: gt@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (George Tatge)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:58:15 GMT
Subject: Electronics (too much is never enough)
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

If you are ever called on the carpet to explain why you could
possibly need all that electronic gadgetry on such a small boat,
check out this months edition of "Trailer Boats."  There's an
article about a guy with a 22' open bow Cobalt.  "Look dear, you
think I'm getting carried away, check out this guy."

He's got:
* all the normal gauges, plus some
* 2- compasses
* VHF
* Cellular Phone
* Loran
* GPS
* Auto Pilot!
* Radar!


g (i feel like the essence of moderation now) t
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:42:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <185rvrINN1ud@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.190840.26391@cs.ubc.ca> goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) writes:
All that good safety stuff deleted...

> The worst boating injury I have ever had was when I folded my
> toenail back on my friend's jet ski. High-speed boat driving
> is safe, but you have to take your time, and work your way up
> to it. It's the folks who hop in a 100-horsepower boat, pull
> back a few brews, and then hit the throttle that scare me.

Again well said.
Most people don't realize that there are some go-fast boaters who
take it very seriously.  I too wear all the recommended life saving
equipment.  While operating at those speeds I'm NOT talking to
passangers, "sight seeing", having a beer, playing with the radio........
I am fully aware of what's going on around me, and always keep
my hands on the throttles!  That's the first thing I learned,
never let go of the throttles.  I guess every type of boat
whether sail or power, fast or slow, has those few idiots
that bring with them a bad name and stereotype that ruins
it for the rest of us.  I think of my boat less of a "recreation"
and more of a sport, one that I take very seriously.  The only "close
calls" I ever had were in the river while I was at idle and some
"kid" was out joy riding in his father's boat.

******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
From: burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Another request for REC.BOATS.HOBIE
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:59:02 GMT
Organization: Teradyne, Inc.

>
>For some reason this reminds me of this guy who said to me, "The best
>people of the three different types of music: Johnny Rotten, Eno and Mick
>Jagger, they should get together and do an album". 
>
>Lets put it this way: if we have a rec.boats.hobie shouldn't we have a
>rec.boats.prindle and a rec.boats.470 and a rec.boats.fd and a
>rec.boats.catalina and rec.boats.optimist-kids and rec.boats.qeII and
>rec.boats.sails.mylar.shrink.shrink.shrink? I am of the opinion that there are
>already too many newsgroups and they are organized poorly. 

Chill out. I get your point. No need to be sarcastic. And by the way, no one is twisting your arm to read any poorly organized newgroups.  

>Before you start making tiny little special interest groups off of very 
>general ones, I think it should be first split into something more general like>rec.boats.power and rec.boats.sail? 

I agree. That would be a fine compromise as far as I am concerned. After all, 
there's a rec.boats.paddle, right? 


>If you're trying to stimulate discussion then why 
>not just post more? If you get tired of other threads, kill them. If you don't >want to see ANYTHING else, which to me seems rather closeminded, start a 
>mailing list.                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^ 


Yes, I do kill things I don't want to see. I read News to get specific 
info on specific subjects. That's what I use News for. You use News to suit 
your own needs, let me use it to suit mine.  And, yes, I am looking into 
starting a mailing list. That's a good idea.
 

-- 
Mike Burzycki                             burzycki@sky.dnet.teradyne.com
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:51:46 GMT
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division

zielke@FOZZIE.NRL.NAVY.MIL (David Zielke) writes:

>alan@km4ba.uucp writes:

>>But wood decks and stringers *will* rot, even if encapsulated in glass.
>>(flex = hairline cracks.) Then your non 100% bailing cheap craft is building
>>it's own problems. (I believe this was a bayliner issue.)

>As a sailor having worked with foam, balsa, and plywood decks which have
>been encapsulated in glass I would make a couple of observations.  

>First: cored decks are often done as a weight saving process more than a
>money saving process.  While this might not be the case for inexpensive
>boats, it would mean that cored decks would go away on expensive boats and
>they do not.

>Second: I find that the primary reason for decks getting soft is improper
>maintance.  I just helped a friend of mine rebuild the fordeck on an Irwin
>28 because some bozo in the boats history had installed a couple of cleats
>on the fordeck with no calk at all!!!  Deck hardware must be rebedded 
>periodically, especially those which take high loads which change direction.

The "wood decks and stringers" that alan referred to are almost certainly
located just above the bilge.  Frequently, they are not fully glass-encased
on cheaper boats.  It's hard to glass the stringers properly (so that there
are no holes or gaps), and water penetration into the stringers is a common
problem.  The same holds true for the underside of the wood deck.  While
most (but not all) boats at least have some resin sprayed/rolled onto both
sides of the wood, it is frequently not well done.  This is seen most
often on inexpensive boats with carpeted decks (such as Bayliner),
but poorly-constructed decks are frequently found on inexpensive boats
with fiberglass liners as well.  (Certain inexpensive, mass-produced
center-console fishing boats come to mind.)  The glassed-in plywood rots, 
resulting in a saggy, weak deck.  Eventually, the deck must be cut out and
replaced.  If the stringers have suffered the same fate as the deck, though,
it's pretty much impossible to keep the original shape and strength when
restringing.

You are right, though, that decks above the 'floor' that go soft are
frequently caused by improper installation or maintenance of deck hardware.

>I would hazzard to guess that minor crazing or hairline cracks don't go all
>the way into the core in most cases are not the primary cause of deck rot.

Agreed.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bob Rusk			    | An egoless acceptance of stuckness is a
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com	    | key to an understanding of all Quality.
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'. |			   - Robert M. Pirsig