HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: RE: A GERMAN IN GREECE!
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 




>>>The sentence,"Macedonia is Greek" was written on almost everything I
>>>saw.
>>
>> Here we go again. The greeks are demonstrating their allegiance to
>> the
>> Macedonians (the REAL Macedonians) rather vocally. So what? Two years
>> ago, the Americans were in a similar patriotic blitz, with yellow
>> ribbons everywhere,
>>
>Except of course this was about Americans imprisonned elsewhere, not an
>attempt to hijack a country's name. Now if they'd put 'Only the USA is
>America' on their stamps perhaps we'd have a viable parallel.

Ah, Andy... As ignorant of America as he is ignorant of Greece.
 During the hostage crisis, only a few people had yellow bands. The
yellow band mania exploded when Desert Storm/Desert Shield was taking
place. Americans came in support of the troops in the Gulf, even those
americans who were opposed to the war. Other expressions of support came
in the form of shopping bags, pharmacy receipts, storefront signs, even
highway traffic displays all saying "We Support Our Troops". If
Americans can express such support for 400,000 troops about to invade
Iraq, why is are Greeks "Paranoid" when expressing their support for
2,000,000 residents of Macedonia, who are worried that war may come
their way, as it has recently happened in neighbouring Croatia and
Bosnia?

>For paranoia of monumental proportions this really takes the biscuit.
>Next perhaps we'll be told that the Republic of Macedonia is
>responsible for Hurricane Andrew, the famine in Somalia, [put your
>suggestion here]. Once again where is one scrap of evidence that

 It is your paranoia, not anyone elses. No one has suggested any such
thing.

Michael.
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic (was Re: Understanding...)
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:29:32 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut) writes:

> When we ask Greeks about the proof of Turkey's evil intentions, they
>will point out a speech made by a few politicians (mostly misinterpreted
>demands on sea-shelf.) These things translated as "territorial demands"
>in Greece, but the similar actions done by some Greek politicians,
>(Megali idea, recapture of Asia minor) is usually interpreted as
>exceptions. Why? If Turkey has territorial claims, then Greece has
>territorial ambitions with the same logic. Don't you agree?

Well, don't compare apples with oranges. If you want to understand
the evolvement of "Megalh Idea" and it's role in the politics of the
Greek state, you can find quite enough material. But for start I could
point out, that there was a numerous greek population in Asia minor
while there was never any significant turkish population in Dodekanhssa.
The exchange of populations in 1922 was the end of the role of "Megalh Idea" 
in greek politics.

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9350 soc.culture.turkish:10301
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Aw shucks, we lost an empire...
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:27:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Sadi Turgut writes in response to Eduard Wiener,
who wrote:


>>      Since when, Mutluk, do demented Turks like you decide
>>      which countries are important?

> If Turkey is not an important country then why
>some miserable subscribers of this net write irrelevant
>articles to show Turkey is unimportant? Why are they so willing to
>throw up and  curse and run away? Why do they tear their
>behind to prove to other people that Turkey is undemocratic?
>Why do they try to show that every Turk desires an
>empire or a fascist junta (like the Greek one.)

> If Turkey was not an important country for these kind of
>people, then we wouldn't have the chance to observe this
>curious personalities and in the mean time have some fun.

>>-- Eduard Wiener

> Welcome back again. I am expecting new gems from you.
>Write frequently, emi.

>Sa`di the barbarian





      Nowhere in my posting did I write that Turkey
      is unimportant.  YOUR posting is a rebuttal
      of an accusation that was never made.

-- Eduard Wiener
From: sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Sentiments or "Aw, shucks, we lost an empire"
Date: 27 Sep 1992 03:46:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <717560743@tyranno.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:
>
>      Since when, Mutluk, do demented Turks like you decide
>      which countries are important?

 If Turkey is not an important country then why
some miserable subscribers of this net write irrelevant
articles to show Turkey is unimportant? Why are they so willing to
throw up and  curse and run away? Why do they tear their
behind to prove to other people that Turkey is undemocratic?
Why do they try to show that every Turk desires an
empire or a fascist junta (like the Greek one.)

 If Turkey was not an important country for these kind of
people, then we wouldn't have the chance to observe this
curious personalities and in the mean time have some fun.

>-- Eduard Wiener

 Welcome back again. I am expecting new gems from you.
Write frequently, emi.

 Sa`di the barbarian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: RE: GREEKS : THE TIME TO
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>Places have a right to be called whatever they like. Especially when
>the population of these places unanonymously agrees on the name.

 Since when is a minority desicion "unanimous"? Well, in a country still
run by communist remnants, I guess it is. Why did the Albanians (40% of
the population) walk out on the elections for "M"s independence?

Michael
                           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: rdowlati@rd.hydro.on.ca (Ramin Dowlati)
Subject: Re: GREEKS : THE TIME TO ORGANIZE YOUR PR IS NOW !
Organization: Ontario Hydro - Research Division
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:00:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.202312.218@cs.yale.edu> pavlovic-milan@CS.YALE.EDU (Milan Pavlovic) writes:
>
> This is an open letter to all of my Greek Orthodox brothers and sisters around
>the world.
>  As you can see by the above text, the Skopjans have created a professional
>propaganda group which will disseminate Skopjan propaganda all over the world.
>Greeks ! Don't let this go unchallenged!
>  Just look at what happened with us Serbs. We didn't get organized in time. We
>had no PR.  The Croats, on the other hand, have invested well over $17 million
>in their propaganda. They sent a group of 200 young Canadian and U.S. born 
>Croatian media aides to Zagreb in the spring of 1991. This group was armed with
>fax machines and photocopiers.......[stuff deleted]                  ^^^^^ 

Sounds like pretty dangerous 'weapons' (fax machines and photocopiers).
I better get rid of mine in case I'm accused of being 'armed and dangerous'.

-Cheers
-Ramin
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9395 soc.culture.europe:8711 eunet.politics:1399
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: PROSELYTISM
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:07:11 GMT

In article <6408.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:
>
>
>>About Muslims in Greece I'm really not very informed because I haven't
>>met any, but from what I know, they can at least avoid the "Orthodox
>>religion" classes in primary/high-school (you can even avoid them by
>>declaring atheist).  Maybe they can have classes on their religion too.
>
> Moslems have teir own schools (or they can attend the Greek schools if
>they prefer). The greek government pays money every year to purchause
>school books from Turkey, so as to implement a curriculum that is
>similar to that of Turkey. There is no treaty that obliges Greece to do
>so, but this is what is done. No wonder Turks living in Greece have a
>much higher literacy rate than their relatives in Turkey.

	I think this is the first year that the Turkish goverment bothered 
to send the Books on time. Usualy it was towards the end of the year
or at best in the middle.



>
> As for other religions: In my last three years of high school there was
>a Greek-Jewish kid in attendance. He was exempt from 'Thriskeytika', but
>he had to provide proof that he was attending a similar class for his
>religion. (Actually he would type up something himself, and sign it
>himself. We all wished we could do the same....)
>
>Michael
>                                                                                                                 

	George
From: patrinos@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Anthony J. Patrinos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: IRA-OSE, British behavior, and a "clean sheet fot Paeonia"
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:47:15 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University

In article <scg.717842133@cs.wisc.edu> scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg) writes:
>
>In article 12787 of soc.culture.greek, dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
> (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS) writes :
>
>(stuff deleted) .....
>> War II. I will let a British writer, who recently answered Mr. Malcolm's
>> smear against Greece in the "Spectator" with an article in that same magazine
>> (September 12), speak. Patrick Leigh Fermor writes, in the article "A clean
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> sheet for Paeonia":
>
>        My memory is not very reliable, but I'm pretty sure that Patrick 
>Lee Fermor is one of the two SAS commandos that abducted the German
>General Kraipe from Crete in cooperation with the Cretan resistance.
>It's an amazing story and there are pictures of PLF with the traditional
>Cretan dress (vrakes-stivania).   
...
>
>Nice to hear from you, Patrick Lee Fermor. 
>
>> Dimitris Kouvatsos
>   
>Vassilis Zervakis
>Oregon State University
>
>

I was lucky enough to personally meet Mr Fermor in Messnvia in 1981. I'm glad
to hear that he is still around, as I guessed at the time that he was in his
seventies. He lives in a beautiful villa overlooking the gulf of Messnvia (I
think). I was very impressed at the time with his knowledge of Greek and
Greeks.  He probably knows us better than we now ourselves. It is true that he
was active in the Battle of Crete and the Resistance. He has also written a
book about his travels in Mani. It's foreigners like him that make me think
that we 're not so bad as a people after all.  

Avtwvns Patrinos
Syracuse University
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9457 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8984 soc.culture.bulgaria:1463
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"...
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:05:40 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <97526@bu.edu> buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis) writes:
 > 	Why the teritory called Macedonia nowdays has to be the same 
 > 	as that 2000 years ago? What was known as Serbia 1000 years ago,
 > 	doesn't coincident with what is known as Serbia today. Or many 
 > 	other countries - you name it.
A more recent example is Poland that decidedly moved to the west in the
late forties.  But of course this is also contested (by some Germans),
as every change will be contested.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:16:20 GMT

cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:

>You remember, I said that it could be interpreted as 'A Greek man'
>(because descended from Argives, who everybody knows are Greek) 'king of
>the Macedonians' (another lot of people altogether, whose Greekness is
>very dodgy).
>....
>Conclusion: a classic reduction ad absurdum. Since all the conclusions
>which can be drawn from the initial assumption are wrong, then the
>assumption itself is wrong. The assumption was that Greek and Macedonian
>do not refer to the same People. That is wrong. Therefore they do.

 Oh boy, I'll send you a Ph.D. in archaeology !!!
 Or, should I send you a Ph.D. in bullshitology ? (The meaning of this new
 word is very easy to understand ...)

>Richard Wallace. 

 Panos Tamamidis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: dimitri@cui.unige.ch (Dimitri Konstantas)
Subject: Re: "Zavarakatravemia"
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:33:43 GMT

In article <2OCT199213420732@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> secsu@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ralph O. Clark) writes:
>(tragoudouse o Ksylourns)
>
>   Zavarakatravemia, Zavarakatraveeeeeeeeeeeemiaaaaaa.
>
>Ti snmaivei n leksn "Zavarakatranemia";
>Dev tnv briskw oute sta leksika oute sta muala twn Ellnvwn (Kypraiwn)
>pou kserw.

Ha!! Den symainei tipota!! An diavaseis to "documantation" tou tragoudiou
tha diavasies oti "o Xylouris tragouda ton kaymo enos pallikariou se mia
fantastiki glwssa" !!!

Krima sto kopo pou ekanes na psaxneis na vereis ti symainei!!
(Remember: If nothing else works, read the documentation).

dimitri


-- 

NEW ADDRESS
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dimitri Konstantas                      | 
Centre Universitaire d' Informatique	| EARN   : dimitri@cgeuge51.bitnet
University of Geneva 			| e-mail : dimitri@cui.unige.ch
24 rue du General-Dufour		| Teleph.: +41 (22) 705 7647
CH-1211 Geneva 4, SWITZERLAND 		| Fax	 : +41 (22) 320 2927
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: phssvb@unix.cc.emory.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: GEORGE ELLIOT'S IDEA ABOUT EC...	<29SEP199215080511@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: 29 Sep 1992 15:16:02 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

The poor soul G. Elliot writes in article 
<29SEP199215080511@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
With all of the chaos in the EC right now (currency, economies, etc) and
the violence against the Bosnians that the EC is unwilling to do anything
about, Turkiye would be crazy to even want in the EC now anyway.

Turkiye should concentrate on developing its relationships with the former
Soviet republics and leave Europe to solve its own problems.

It is certainly a shame that the poorest member of the EC should have any
say against new members.  Why don't the Europeans simply admit that they
have a racist feeling against Turks and be done with it????
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I agree, that it is about time, Turkish politicians to realize that their
sphere of 
future interest should be in Central Asia and not in Europe... 
It will be beneficial to everybody....

I don't know if Mr. Elliot is either a US or a EC citizen but he behaves 
like an ignorant: The legal framework of democratic institutions like EC
and US is based on the equality principle, regardless of the economic
level.
Everybody has a saying in the process either being a citizen or a state.

Now, if the states and the citizens of EC do not want Turkey -as it is NOW-
to enter their house, this has nothing to do with racism. They have the
right
to choose whom to invite in accordance to their interests.
Anyway, Turkey has applied to enter EC; this means it has to obey
the rules of EC in order to enjoy the privileges.

Unfortunately, successfull Turkish administrations have understood the
international relations not on equal basis among partners and neighbors 
but on power politics. The weak and the poor must not have a saying.
This is another left-over from the Ottoman period.

Spiros
From: aa748@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karl Kimpo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: REQUEST:  Hippocratic Oath in Greek
Date: 29 Sep 1992 11:38:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa748@po.CWRU.Edu (Karl Kimpo)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu




Hi!  I was wondering if anyone could e-mail me the Hippocratic Oath in
Greek for a high school Greek class.  I don't know how hard/easy it would
be to find the write keyboard to type in Greek but however I have a fax
number one can send to...


THANK YOU!

e-mail to: aa748@po.CWRU.Edu or xx243@po.CWRU.Edu
or FAX to: (216) 651-6313




-- 
Karl Kimpo<aa748>|X'thyx,  |-|Please stop by at Virtual Ignatius at Micromuse!
Ignatius HS SIGop|rider of |-|@tel to #35716! Thank you! |-|
"Buncha sickos!" |bronze   \-|---------------------------|-|
   --Mr. Wirfel  |Rohanth, of Fort Weyr and fairy atheist at large!
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:55:25 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

> 
>          I wonder if Andy would change his position if he finds out (if he
> didn't know already) that the OSE gives unconditional critical support

What is 'unconditional critical support' - sounds like a bit of a
contradiction in terms to me, but then this could be a subtle aspect of
Greek philosophy I've missed (BUT WAIT! to indulge in that would be
national chauvinism on OSE's part and hence against their
internationalist creed, so I suppose it must be  straightforward
incoherence after all)

> to the
> IRA and advocates armed overthrow of the Greek, Irish and British governments
> by the organised working class
 
> 
>                                   Tony Hartin
>                                   International Socialist Organisation
>                                   Australia


No, if I did I'd make a citizen's arrest of the Socialist Workers
papersellers in Hanley. I suppose technically they could be prosecuted
under the Sedition Act, this has never happened of course. These people are harmless eccentrics and like
most of my race I cherish eccentricity. It's much more fun to watch
these self-styled champions of the working class persistently ignored by
them, in England they get even fewer votes than the National Front which
is saying something - than locking them up. This latter strategy of
course, quite apart from being anti-democratic, only gives them ideas of
importance above their station and free publicity. There's more than one
reason to insist on free speech. 

However if someone could show that OSE regularly shot policemen, blew up buildings etc, I would agree that the
Greek government would have every right to lock them up, indeed execute
the murderers among them. I'm no friend of terrorism under whatever
initials it hides. On the other hand the printing of a pamphlet
(particularly this one) seems a harmless enough thing and moreover pamphlets and slogans are about as far as OSE's revolution
will ever get. Everyone is allowed to dream - even Trotskyites and in my
case Thatcherites.

Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject: Just testing new facility
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 08:32:02 GMT

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Forwarded message follows:

From levi3361@oce.orst.edu  Fri Sep 25 18:51:14 1992
Received: from cs.wisc.edu by bashan.cs.wisc.edu; Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:51:14 -0500
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	id AA20808; Fri, 25 Sep 92 16:51:08 PDT
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 16:51:08 PDT
From: Murry Levine <levi3361@oce.orst.edu>
Message-Id: <9209252351.AA20808@oce.orst.edu>
To: soc-culture-greek-post
Subject: Just testing new facility

Sorry again, Just a Test
Basilns Zerbakns


Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9505 soc.culture.europe:8805
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Newsgroups: soc.human.rights,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Greek justice towards a Jehovah Witness.
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:47:00 GMT
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis


>From: sebr@iro.umontreal.CA (Sebastien Racine *Rocker*)
>     I heard that public advocation of religions in
>     Greece was strictly prohibited according to a
>     law (1939). Greek Orthodox church is allowed to
>     make propoganda f any kind, on the other hand
>     any public activity of other religious branches

 There are certain misconseptions in the above. First of all, there are
no special political rights granted to the Orthodox Church, (except for
the administration of Mountain Athos, a small subdivision in Northern
Greece). Even property belonging to the church was converted to public
property in 1987. Greek law does prohibit any attempt to preach to
minors without the permision of their parents, and any proselitisation
in public spaces. This was actually done in 1939 to diminish the power
of the C.O. Church, and over the objections of the Church. If there were
no restrictions on procelitisation, who whould be more vulnerable, the
Orthodox church that has thousands of priests and huge financial assets,
or the various fringe religions?

 By the way, what was the age of the persons being procelytised in the
above example? In all the years I lived in Greece the law was not
applied more than once every two years or so, and ONLY in cases where
minors were involved. I am not familiar with the particulatrs of this
case, so I'd really like to know the ages of those involved. And there
have not been any convictions in recent history, or those convictions
that were made were overturned by higher courts for various
technicalities. And yes, there has been a case of a C.O. priest who was
procecuted under the same law.

Michael.
                
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9386 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8930 soc.culture.europe:8706
From: ognastov@athena.mit.edu (Ognen J Nastov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: GREEKS : THE TIME TO ORGANIZE YOUR PR IS NOW !
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:16:26 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <6269.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) writes:
>  The one area that needs improvement is promoting our views in the
>American newspapers and the other Media. While we have convinced many
>newspapers not to paste the word "Macedonia" over the country that has
>no right to use that name, many others still do so. And the coverage
>from the area has been minimal; although the NY Times had an excellent
>article a few months ago, portions of which I have re-posted here.

Places have a right to be called whatever they like. Especially when
the population of these places unanonymously agrees on the name.

All major newspapers in the US (such as the New York Times) continue
with the correct map labeling of Macedonia. In addition, all major
weekly news magazines continue to do the same. And the latest world
maps have Macedonia as an independent country labeled Macedonia. 

I'm sorry, but most people in publishing aren't stupid, and will never
buy your "historical patent" argument.
--
Ognen J. Nastov              MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
ognastov@athena.mit.edu      Cambridge, MA 02139     (617) 253-8576