From: sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims)
Subject: Re: Passing out Condoms (Was Re: Better Off Than Four Years Ago NOT)
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:37:30 GMT

nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.180359.28549@den.mmc.com> sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:
>>nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>
>>>  But, (AGAIN!) : they aren't doing it.   So what about all the teenagers
>>>  who are out there *now* having sex, making babies, and catching STD's,
>>>  (some of which are fatal)?
>>How interesting, that you stereotype all parents this way. 

>  How am I stereotyping all parents?  I am merely pointing out the
>  undeniable: that millions of families DON'T provide such guidance.
>  What are you going to offer those children?

Well, when you use a collective pronoun, such as they, you didn't seem
to leave any room for variance.  But back to the point.  I recommend
teaching children, with a straight face and without any mixed messages
that abstinence before marriage is the _best_ way to prevent unwanted
pregnancies, STDs, etc.  If, knowing the facts, kids still desire to be
promiscuous, I can't do anything more for them than you can by handing
them a condom.  You, by your own admission, can be sure they'll use the
thing, since sex is largely an act of passion, not of reason.  Once the
kids have decided they are going to have sex, expecting them to remember
to stop and put on a condom is a little silly.



>  Read what you wrote!   "Can be" is a conditional.  This is what I mean
>  by hypothetical.   "Can be" is not the same as "is".  The church has
>  been one of the central institutions in the black community for 
>  a century or more.  A huge percentage of black leaders in the US
>  have either been clergymen or sons and daughters of clergymen. 
You must mean guys like Jessie Jackson, who proclaimed that Jesus was
born to an unwed mother.  Perhaps he hasn't read his Bible very much.

>  this has not prevented blacks from having an astronomical rate of
>  unwed motherhood.   What is your plan?   What *specifically* do you
>  think ought to be done?   I don't want any hand-waving "we all have
>  to change our attitudes and raise our children better" -- that's
>  an empty platitude.   What are you proposing we do TODAY about
>  14 and 15 year old kids who are having sex and producing babies?          
>  If you were emperor what specific steps would you take?

Of course, I can't speak for what is going on in other churches.  In my
church, we have a sex education class for kids as young as the 4th
grade.  They are taught that sex is an essential, beautiful part of
life, and that is is meant to be enjoyed by married couples, and that
there are consequenses of sex outside this context.  No one screams at
them, or tells them that sex is dirty, but sex is presented in a
Christian context.


>>>  BY ALL MEANS promote healthy, functional families, if you think
>>>  you know how.  But how long will that take?  And what will you do
>>>  about the kids who are having unprotected sex and making babies
>>>  right now?   
>>And just how is dispensing free condoms going to change it?  The last
>>time I checked, they aren't expensive.  I don't think the cost is the
>>issue, its the usage.  If you give them away, just how
>>are you going to make sure they're used?

>  There's no way -- I'm sure only a small % will reliably use them.  
>  But at least THOSE kids will reduce their risk of AIDS, other STD's
>  and pregnancy.                                       

So just what are _you_ going to do to assuage your consciense for the
overwhelming majority of kids who didn't use their free condoms?


John



-- 
John Sims    sims@pogo.den.mmc.com