From: reb@punch.EBay.Sun.COM (Bob Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Amway, Just the Facts please
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:46:56 GMT
Followup-To: alt.business.multi-level
Organization: Systar Technologies, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: punch.ebay.sun.com
In-reply-to: noring@netcom.com's message of 10 Apr 92 00:03:31 GMT


   >|> What I wanted to know is the "real" story of the people working at the
   >|> bottom, like "I try to sell these products door to door and make X
   >|> amount of money in a week" or something to that effect.  The "official"

The real story, based on the people who are in my business is that
those who work the program as it's designed to be do well. Those who
don't, don't. The fact of the matter is, MOST of the people in the
business don't do anywhere near what it takes (Not even a lousy 5-10
hours a week!) and so they make nothing. Everyone starts at the
bottom.

   >If you can become rich with Amway, then you could probably do it with many
   >other businesses.  It requires a lot of work, a good relationship with your
   >neighbors and extended family, self discipline, and desire. 

That's true to some extent. However, I've had several businesses.

My computer business went under when the manufacturer (Cromemco) was
bought out and eventually went under -- No control on my part. 

My largest business, a pre-paid legal service fell apart when the
economy did back in '81--- we sold to small businesses who paid us on
promissory notes. We had several million in sales, went great the
first 2 years. Total bankruptcies against us the first 2 years was
less than 10. In the third year ('81), over 150 (not including most of
the people who simply didn't pay)! That wasn't under my control.

Finally, I wrote a "get-rich-quick" book called _Playing the Credit
Card Game_ and sold it via full page ads in various "get rich" type
magazines.  It went well until.... well, just never have partners. Now
I'm a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt and my only salvation is
my MLM business.

All the things that happened, I take full responsibility for, and
offer no excuses... but note that a large part of the failure was due
to things not under my control.  Because MLM is based on a lot of
small pieces and generally on products which are stable (i.e. people
continue to buy during good and bad times), much of the risk is simply
not there. Certainly not the kind of MONEY I had to put up in those
other businesses.

   It must include whether or not the income is residual, inflation-proof, and
   likely to continue into the foreseeable future.  In addition, one has to look
   at the amount of free-time one develops 

Yes, Yes, Yes!!

   That is why I'll say this without hesitation:  *Strictly looking at MLM as a
   business*, using hard-core business criteria, you will find that MLM is by far
   the best business concept yet developed this century for the average person
   to get involved with and develop significant income.  

I agree completely.

   >Most people who sign up as Amway distributors, don't even distribute.  Just
   >do the arithmetic.  If each distributor signs up 6 sub-distributors, etc.,
   >then in just 11 levels, you would have over 300 million distributors.  That's
   >everyone in the US, including new-borns and convalecent hospital residents.

The math works, I agree. But the fact is there are MANY MLMs over 10
years old and none of them comes even close to signing up the U.S.
Even Amway, over 30 years--- and they only have 1-2 million
distributors worldwide.

Probably the best argument is Christianity. It spreads like MLM, word
of mouth, person to person, one at a time. Given this, the world
should have been Christian a long time ago. The facts are that most of
the world isn't Christian.

   >Many, including me, have a problem with AMWAY because they sell
   >the dream, not the products.

I know how you feel because I felt the same way when I started MLM.
What I found out :-) was that most of the people in my group need
something to focus on that will help them to do the work necessary to
build the business. Very few people will build the business just for the
sake of doing it.

   >If you like the product at those inflated prices, sign up.
   >It's a cheaper way to get them (still not competitive).  

I don't believe any MLM would survive very long if it's prices were not
competitive or that the higher price was justified based on being a
better product. Remember, in order for an MLM to stay legal, it must
show that the products can be sold to "retail" consumers.

   >If you want to get rich evaluate other options as well.

Absolutely.

   >Just don't focus on the few who did well. 

What?! Focus on failure? Come on, if you're going to learn to make
money, learn from the best. If you want to be a champion athelete,
get a GREAT coach. Why is making money any different from other
endeavors in life where you should learn from the best to be the
best?

   >Look at the average income of the business you are getting into.

Are you kidding?  The average income of most people (families?!) in
America is around $25,000 a year. I don't want to do what they do, I
want to do what the top 1% does! I don't think I could live on $25,000
a year. In MLM, most people make just about ZIP! Those who do what it
takes, do much better. To top it off, 80% of new businesses fail in
their first year! No, I don't want normal or average! Normal or average
is broke.

   With respect to the average income:  That is the worst criteria to use for
   evaluating an MLM.

Hear, Hear!!

   The real criteria is: If I work it as they say I should,
   will I achieve what they say I'll achieve?  

Yes!

  You need a higher reason (dream) to make any short-term sacrifice.

Absolutely. Especially given our "I NEED TO HAVE IT NOW" society. MLM
doesn't usually result in quick wealth...  if a company claims that,
and it happens a lot... I suspect that it is due to great salesmanship,
front loading, or a buy-at-the-top kind of program.

   >How many of those 300 million distributors are getting wealthy?

VERY VERY FEW. Because only a few will do the work required and the
rest aren't even in yet.

   When you do talk to a person who 'failed' in MLM, ask them how many
   people they shared the concept with.  If the answer is less
   than 100, then you have the answer as to why they 'failed'.  

I saw an article in MLM Connection Magazine that says if we really told the
truth about MLM that rather than saying sponsor 5 who sponsor 5 who sponsor 5
or sponsor 6 who sponor 4 who sponsor 2 that we should say sponsor 100, 50 quit,
of those that are left 45 do nothing, 5 sponsor 30, 75 of those 150 quit...
The point of the article is that 5-5-5 is good in math, but the facts are
you'll sponsor WAY MORE than 5 to find 5 guys like you.

And think about what Jon said-- 100 plans! In a year, that would be an
average of only 2 plans a week. VERY FEW do even that. Because they can't?
No, because they don't have a big enough dream, or they don't believe
the program will work.


--
--Bob
Systar Technologies, Inc.		   Sun: robert.brown@EBay.Sun.COM
1712 Picasso Avenue, #B & #C            Office: reb@systar.com
Davis, California  95616		 Phone: (916) 753 - 2611
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA