HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman)
Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 07:08:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

>In article <Ray_Hines.06nr@dream.uucp> Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines) writes:
>>In a message dated Wed 16 Dec 92  5:46, Phutter@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu
>>wrote:
>>
>>>A dealer in Tampa, Florida is selling the A4000 for $2600.  If you say
>>that
>>>one can purchase the SUN SparcStation Classic with the above specs for
>>>$2600, tell me where!  I am interested in checking this out.  What CPU
>>does
>>>it have?
>>
>> P> You can purchase a SUN SparcStation Classic for $3350.00 (educational 
>> P> discount), the price the A4000 goes for here. It comes, as I said
>> P> before, w 16 MB RAM, 207 MB HDD, 3.5" HD, and 15" 1024 X 768 monitor,
>>as
>> P> well as  8-bit color frame buffer. It has a 50+ MIPS CPU, performing
>>close
>> P> to 4 FLOPs. It's a very nice system. Also, if you are willing to wait,
>>the
>> P> SUN  IPC prices will go down soon or, for that matter, just buy a used
>>one
>> P> (what I did). 
>>
>>If you want a lot of software, the Sparcstation isn't for you.  Plus at
>>about $1000 a pop for good titles, it's expensive.  It isn't as powerful in
>>many cases, at least in the price/performance area.  
>>
>>What CPU does this Sparcstation have?  I asked that before. 


[material deleted]


  The CPU in a Sparcstation is a SPARC.  This is a RISC processor
designed by SUN.  The speed? Depends. I will quote from memory,
so the ends of the ramge I quote are bound to be innacurate, but
here goes anyways...   the low end SPARCs do about 50 - 80 MIPs.
The high end ones do about 200 MIPs.  Operating system? Solaris
for the new, SUN Os for the older ones.  These are all Unix
variants.  The new Solaris is S5R4 based.  Colors? 256, unless
you buy a true-color (24 bit) board.  The board's ain't cheap, as
I recall (1K$+? I could be wrong...)  Of course Amiga 24bit
boards are expensive too, but with an A4000 in HAM you have a lot
more than 256 colors without adding hardware.  On the other hand,
there is some VERY fast graphics hardware available for the SUN
if you have the $$.  For around $50,000 you can get a
Sparcstation plus a graphics board that will do 3 MILLION Garaud
(sp?) shaded polygons per second, or 3 mil. anti-aliased 3-D
vectors per second.  There's a lower end version of this board
that ONLY %-( does one million of the above units per sec. :-)
I'd mention who makes the board, but I don't have the article to
hand...

Clear as mud?   ;-)



The opinions ar mine.  The facts are the facts, and if I've
actually stated any into this post it's been by happy co-incidence....
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: drac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard)
Subject: Re: Looking for PD-VR-Program for PC (probably a DEMO!)
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 11:12:07 GMT
Keywords: virtual

There IS a virtual-reality demo program been making the rounds of BBS's 
(public-domain... as an advertizement for a company)... called "VIRTUAL.ZIP",
which of course means you'll need PKUNZIP to decompress it... look around on
IBM BBS's...

Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: watpod72@alfred.carleton.ca (George Bragg)
Subject: Re: Looking for PD-VR-Program for PC (probably a DEMO!)
Keywords: virtual
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:59:24 GMT

In <Bz292u.Gzz@acsu.buffalo.edu> mcglincy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Matthew S. Mcglincy) writes:

>hg306ne@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Michael Neef) writes:

>->A few weeks before I read an article about a Shareware or Public-Domain-
>->Program , that let you see a house from inside. (I think it was a Demo
>->of a professional program.) 
>->Does there anybody know this kind of program and where to get it?
>->Any PD or Shareware related to Virtual Reality would do...

>There is an abundance of virtual reality software via anonymous ftp
>at sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  The software that would allow the "room-walk-through"
>you're talking about is Rend386, by Dave Stampe.  There are drivers for a 
>powerglove and sega-glasses included as well.

Actually, Rend386 isn't what the original poster wants at all, I
think.  Rend386 lets you build your own Virtual Worlds, but there are
several other demos out there which are "prepackaged" worlds.  The
Superscape 3d demo is one which comes to mind right away.  Anyway, it
IS all available at sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/VR directory.  Take
a look, there's even some Mac stuff there I think.
-- 
--------
"OCP pioneered cyborg technology;
 state-of-the-art destructive capability..."

watpod72@alfred.carleton.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: qureshi@ug.cs.dal.ca (Saqib Ahmed Qureshi)
Subject: I need a FAQ !..and what the Dickens do Sega 3-D glasses cost in $Cdn?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:38:39 GMT


Hello readers,
 I am VERY interested in VR. Unfortunately I own a 386DX/33 with 2 Meg RAM..
 I heard from a friend that I would need at least a 486..to get good graphics.
 Also I have NEVER heard of sega 3-d glasses (I know, I know ..I'm ignorant),
 how good are they?
 Lastly I request a faq or a pointer to a site where I can get it...er..I'm
 assuming the powerglove and sega 3-d glasses drivers someone was talking
 about earlier are for IBM and compats...I didn't even know they fit into one
 of the PC's port's..do I have to get an adapter or what?
  As you can see I'm in confusion city..so please, please, please tell me all
you can ( I don't sound desperate do I?:) ).
 Please reply by e-mail.
  Thanks in advance....
			    -Saqib
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:34:41 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Wed 16 Dec 92  5:46, Phutter@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu
wrote:

>A dealer in Tampa, Florida is selling the A4000 for $2600.  If you say
that
>one can purchase the SUN SparcStation Classic with the above specs for
>$2600, tell me where!  I am interested in checking this out.  What CPU
does
>it have?

 P> You can purchase a SUN SparcStation Classic for $3350.00 (educational 
 P> discount), the price the A4000 goes for here. It comes, as I said
 P> before, w 16 MB RAM, 207 MB HDD, 3.5" HD, and 15" 1024 X 768 monitor,
as
 P> well as  8-bit color frame buffer. It has a 50+ MIPS CPU, performing
close
 P> to 4 FLOPs. It's a very nice system. Also, if you are willing to wait,
the
 P> SUN  IPC prices will go down soon or, for that matter, just buy a used
one
 P> (what I did). 

If you want a lot of software, the Sparcstation isn't for you.  Plus at
about $1000 a pop for good titles, it's expensive.  It isn't as powerful in
many cases, at least in the price/performance area.  

What CPU does this Sparcstation have?  I asked that before.  You can also
wait on the Amiga 4000s as well.  Prices will go down, too :) It's a very
new machine -- it is expected to drop in price.  $2600 is common for it in
most areas.  Whereever you are, the dealer is ripping people off by wanting
$3350 for an Amiga 4000.  


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:22:16 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Sat 28 Nov 92  1:04, Cstadba@csv.warwick.ac.uk (mr C D W
wrote:

 CCD> I have seen the A4000 selling for 2100 pounds in the UK inc VAT.

The Amiga 4000 is for sale in Florida, USA, for $2600.  Not bad at all!

 CCD> When somebody finally gets around to putting a CD-ROM in the A4000,

I agree. :)

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
From: tww2568@venus.tamu.edu (WEEKS, THOMAS WILLIAM)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Reality
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:46 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Macbeth,

Reality, an A4000 running XWindos UNIX, Mac and true 486(hardware)emulation...
   (all in the background of course.....) hehe

Tom
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
From: PHUTTER@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu (Macbeth)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:30:31 GMT
Organization: Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT USA

In article <Ray_Hines.061a@dream.uucp> Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines) writes:
>Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
>From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
>Date: 11 Dec 92 22:26:06 GMT

>In a message dated Sat 28 Nov 92  1:04, Macbeth@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu
>wrote:

> M> Come on! An Amiga 4000? True, the graphics speed is quite impressive
> M> and I the 800 X 600 mode, however, 256 colors is passe, even for VR. We

>Er, 256 colors is but just one possibility.  The A4000 can do 256,000
>colors at once easily out of a palette of 16.4 million.  If you want to
>stretch things, you can do 700,000 colors at once.

Yes, you can stretch the limit, but not at higher resolutions. The problem 
with the Amigas is that they use some WEIRD graphics methods (such as the 
HAM mode of yore) which are not very savory for people dealing with 
profesional quality animations, although, I must say, the A4000 offers a 
decent option for people who wish to capture images and send them through a 
mixer as "effect" modules.

> M> processing speed is not that amazing. For the price of an Amiga 4000
> M> you can 
> M> buy a SUN SparcStation Classic with 16 MB RAM, 207 MB HDD, 3.5" HD,
> M> and 15" 1024 X 768 monitor.

>A dealer in Tampa, Florida is selling the A4000 for $2600.  If you say that
>one can purchase the SUN SparcStation Classic with the above specs for
>$2600, tell me where!  I am interested in checking this out.  What CPU does
>it have?

You can purchase a SUN SparcStation Classic for $3350.00 (educational 
discount), the price the A4000 goes for here. It comes, as I said before, 
with 16 MB RAM, 207 MB HDD, 3.5" HD, and 15" 1024 X 768 monitor, as well as 
the 8-bit color frame buffer. It has a 50+ MIPS CPU, performing close to 4 
MFLOPs. It's a very nice system. Also, if you are willing to wait, the SUN 
IPC prices will go down soon or, for that matter, just buy a used one (what 
I did). 

>-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

>* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
>--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
>/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
>\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
> \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!

							Greetings,

							Macbeth

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	    Macbeth
      Wesleyan University		InterNet: PHUTTER@
      Middletown, CT 06459                        EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU
					          CARDINAL.SC107.WESLEYAN.EDU

      Reality: A SUN SparcStation supporting UNIX, Mac, MS-DOS.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jscherer@db (John Scherer)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Where to get sega LCD glasses?
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:45:22 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Does anyone know where I could find a pair of these??

John Scherer
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: lm011@aix370.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE (Alexander Tuchacek)
Subject: Re: VRship harbour hamburg: send sounds 
Keywords: VRmusic 
Reply-To: lm011@aix370.rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE (Alexander Tuchacek)
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne, F. R. Germany
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 15:23:44 GMT


Call for international participation in new art/science project.
KNOWBOTIC RESEARCH
Simulation Room -Mosaic of Mobile Sound Data
We are a group of artists and scientists at the Academy of Media
Arts Cologne,  and will be showing a VR installation in February at
the MEDIALE93 - Festival for Media Arts and Media Future - in
Hamburg, Germany. The installation, housed in the freight ship Cap
San Diego in Hamburg - harbour, has three main areas.
Section one is a sophisticated, walk - in data - base  utilising a
collection of sound samples from around the world, which will be
used to produce a virtual 'sound room'.  The sound data will
correspond to the second section,  a physical room, where visitors
will be able to navigate through the space with the aid of a mobile
ultrasonic sensor and an artificial eye display and activate the data 
to a realtime-concert.
The action of the visitors, within  this 'virtual organism,' will be
displayedon a video screen shown in a control room area (the third
area).
We welcome your participation for the international sound - data -
base: To participate in this international project we need from you a
6 second long sound sample, a cultural statement, reflecting
your personal attitude towards the "world". Please send this via
email or ftp. (aiff, wave, next formats)
All participants and institutions will be credited in a publicly
displayed database during the exhibition.
For more information by email from: kr+cf@khm.uni-koeln.de
Thank you for your support - KNOWBOTIC RESEARCH
From: loki@orthanc.freeside.com (Biggles)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: I need a FAQ !..and what the Dickens do Sega 3-D glasses cost in $Cdn?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:11:41 CDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: Society for Balrog and Nazgul Understanding and Recognition

qureshi@ug.cs.dal.ca (Saqib Ahmed Qureshi) writes:
>
> 
> Hello readers,
>  I am VERY interested in VR. Unfortunately I own a 386DX/33 with 2 Meg RAM..
>  I heard from a friend that I would need at least a 486..to get good graphics.
>  Also I have NEVER heard of sega 3-d glasses (I know, I know ..I'm ignorant),
>  how good are they?
>  Lastly I request a faq or a pointer to a site where I can get it...er..I'm
>  assuming the powerglove and sega 3-d glasses drivers someone was talking
>  about earlier are for IBM and compats...I didn't even know they fit into one
>  of the PC's port's..do I have to get an adapter or what?
>   As you can see I'm in confusion city..so please, please, please tell me all
> you can ( I don't sound desperate do I?:) ).

Don't worry, you're not alone.  There are quite a few people out there who
are as lost as you are, me included.  I hadn't even heard of sega glasses
until I started reading this group recently.  And I've seen power gloves 
before, and I was always led to believe that they sucked.

>  Please reply by e-mail.
>   Thanks in advance....
>                           -Saqib
> 
If anyone feels the need to reply, go ahead and do it publicly, for the 
benefit of all us block-heads out there. =]


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"How can you be at two places at once,         loki@orthanc.freeside.com
         when you're not anywhere at all?"       (aka Biggles)
                   --Firesign Theater                                        
         ---Nothing's impossible, just highly improbable.---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: albrecht@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Chad Edward Albrecht)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: I need a FAQ !..and what the Dickens do Sega 3-D glasses cost in $Cdn?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 01:01:44 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

A better news group to read is sci.virtual-worlds, it tells much more about
the powerglove and segaglasses hookup.

--



-----------------------------------------   "The chess board is the world,
|	albrecht@csd4.csd.uwm.edu	|    the pieces are the phenomena 
|      albrecht@convex.csd.uwm.edu      |    of the universe, the rules of
|        acct146@carroll1.cc.edu        |    the game are what we call the
|       COMPUTING SERVICES DIVISION     |    laws of nature."
|	   UNIX  CONSULTING             |
|	   MICRO CONSULTING	        |           --T.H. Huxley
|     EMS 229-5370 Bolton 229-5317      |
-----------------------------------------
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (gogo is insane)
Subject: Who's Who of the InterNet
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 05:02:13 GMT



 ______________________________________________________________________
|______________                        /                               |
|                                     /                                |
|                u  t  u  r  e       <___________  u  l  t  u  r  e    |
_______________________________________________________________________|


WHO are you?

Hi.  I publish the FutureCulture FAQ file, which is a self-described
"somewhat definitive guide to resources bringing you the future."  It
is basically an ever-growing guide to the new edge, technoculture,
cybperculture, etc., particular the relevant on-line aspects of the
aforementioned subculture(s)

One of the sections is a "who's who" of on-line 'celebrities', and
appears in the file like this:

	V. Important Person		Musician/Author 
	John Q. NetPublic		Hacker/Writer

So, if you are someone who would like to be mentioned in the file (no
email addrresses are given out), or if you know of someone who you
feel garners recognition, please send relevant info. (including a
basic summary of credentials in-case I fall knowledge-impaired) to:

      ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu

I am looking for on-line people from all walks of life, including:
hackers (in the underground sense), writers, magazine editors,
artists, musicians, DJs, NetGurus, authors, or any other
characteristic that might seperate onesself from the mass.net.public.

Thanks in advance.

--

    ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu	        FutureCulture:  In/f0rmation
    ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com		future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: keith@netcom.com (Keith Mason)
Subject: VR system coming soon...
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:09:24 GMT

Coming soon... (in about a year or so) a BIG time Virtual reality system,
that can be played on a PC over a 2400bps modem.  Still in the design phase,
but it looks real promising.

Sorry, but for obvious reasons I can't give any detail out.

  -- Keith

PS: it will (not in the initial release, but soon after) include a video-phone
style communication system. (although not over 2400bps!)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
	<celeste-151292104231@128.158.16.248> <BzD2F6.3vM@newcastle.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:55:13 GMT

w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:

>>1) I did not chose to be a cross dresser. God (or Goddess) made me 
>>   this way.

>? I doubt it.  From this I understand (perhaps incorrectly) that you
>imply that the desire to wear the clothes of the opposite sex is
>biological.

there is strong evidence to show that, in many cases, transvesticism
is a compulsory urge, and not a matter of choice.  transsexualism is
certainly not a matter of choice.  i would gladly give up being
transsexual if there was any way i could do so and still remain sane,
just because being TS is a royal pain in the ass.  however, i've
become extremely frightened with where denial has brought me (i've
actually had suicidal thoughts recently).

[religious arguments deleted]

>How do you know?  For all you know one and only one way may be
>acceptable That way could be Islam, Hinduism, Atheism etc etc.  There
>is nothing wrong with denying your sexual nature, or are you claiming
>paedophiles, necrophiles, zoophiles, coprophiles etc etc should
>practise their sexual inclinations.

pedophilia is harmful to children, and is therefore morally wrong.
necrophilia isn't really harmful to anybody (corpses aren't going to
notice it, particularily), although some would claim it is
disrespectful to the dead.  zoophilia may harmful to the animal.
coprophilia and similar execratory fetishes, while disgusting, are not
likely to be harmful to anyone but the practitioner.  i have no
objections to necrophilia or coprophilia, although i certainly have no
interest in them myself.

>>7) I am not "gay". I was born male and I like women. As I become a 
>>   "woman" you might consider me a lesbian.

>I don't know enough on human biology to comment on this but I have
>a question:-

>Is there not a chance that after you remove the testicles the
>individual will cease to have an interest in sex so move from being
>hetero-bi-homo-sexual to being asexual?

possible but unlikely.  most TSes i've heard from (directly or
indirectly) do not report a decline in sexual behavior after SRS (in
fact, many report an increase).

kelly
--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: TS show on TV
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:39:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.174307.20283@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,
krh9895@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.R. Hall ) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Dec12.201554.26770@penet.fi> an299@anon.penet.fi (Judy) writes:
> >did anyone catch Picket Fences this week?  This was one of the
> >few fictional portrayals of a TS that I have seen that touches
> >on the real issues.  Although a GG played the part, I was 
> >very impressed with the story and how the small town dealt
> >with the breaking story that she had once been a man.
> >
> >Judy (|)
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> can anyone please tell me how this ended?  i saw right up to, but not 
> 	including, where tom skerrits "daughter" confronted him in the
> 	kitchen.  after my friend turned the tv off to talk to his parents,
> 	i had no where to watch the end.  what happened to her, her job,
> 	her boyfriend, what did the daughter say ect.....
> please send this via e-mail since the news server here has been kinda
> flaky....   thanks
> 
> kathy

1. Got "fired"
2. Went to court. Judge say "This makes me nausious." Then
   State of Wisconcen probhits descrination of transsexuals.
   Job reinstated and "I am out of here!"
3. Boy friend confronts her about lying. She relatest how "feminie" kissing
   him made her feel. She ask if I would kiss her knowing her past?
   He says "No!" Her point of not telling of her past is made clear.
3. Parents pull kids from pagent.
4. She leaves pagent.
5. Virgin Mary is replaced by Tom Skerrit's "daughter" who is the only
   one that "knows" all the lines.
6. At the pagent, the "daughter" is checking with the childer about
   their lines. They say, "We are ready"
7. Pagnet starts. One of the aduts is a Wise Man. He ask if he
   can pick up Christ child.
8. The "angel" (one of Tom's childern) says, "NO! The childern of
   Rome reject the bigtry of their parents. Miss "her" (I for got
   her name) is to join the childern in the pagent!
   She joins them on stage. Gradully, all the parents stand up and then
   all the leaders of the town join them.

If only there were childern and people that understanding...

Love and hugs (with a tear in her eye),

Celeste

P.S. I have watched that eposide about 6 times now!
5. She is in au
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered