From: mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:25:13 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec18.222419.18184@bmerh85.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>In article <BzFyxv.ICD@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>>
>>Yes, and sometimes people don't wish to shoot one another AT ALL. Yet
>>they misunderstand each other. The responsibility of the misunderstanding
>>lies in the speaker/writer as well as the listener/reader. It is the
>>listener/reader's responsibility to infer the meaning of a word from
>>its context. In cases where the meaning cannot be resolved from the
>>context of the word, it is the speaker/writer's responsibility to
>>include an explanatory note.
>
>Or to use words that need less explaining . . .
>
>To use a famous example - the "All men are created equal" phrase that is
>the basis of the U.S.  constitution.  Was this meant to be an inclusive
>or exclusive usage of the word?  The authors neglected to explain, and
>the word has been interpreted in a wide variety of ways of the years
>(and sometimes used to explicitely deny women equal rights).  In fact,
>remembering that many of the authors of that constitution were
>themselves slave owners, one can't even be sure they didn't just mean
>"male whites" (and there are still those who hold this view!)
>


Hasn't it been pointed out on this group before that whatever "other
words" you use, they too can be attached "sexist" meanings by prejudiced
individuals. What do you do then? Take a new word? Your method is
practically infeasible. You are trying to stem the flow of a river with
your bare hands. 

>>Nor do *I* approve of it. People who deliberately misinterpret words
>>are the ones at fault as are the ones who deliberately use these
>>words out of context.
>
>Am I "deliberately" misinterpreting when the word "men" brings up a
>mental image of males?  This is, after the all, the most frequent usage
>of the word.
>
>Are women "men"?  Only when it suits the speaker.  Reread that sentence,
>and think of how the word "men" can be used to diminish women -
>deliberately or otherwise.
>
>I have no intention of being misunderstood; therefore, I will use words
>that do not so easily lend themselves to being misinterpreted,
>deliberately or otherwise.
>
     Really? Then why do you not go around removing ALL ambiguities
from the English language? You do not know of the matters you speak.
If the only argument you can give me for using a different word is :
"it removes ambiguity", then I counter that argument with "Well then,
why stop at "man"? Why not extend this concept of resolving ambiguity?"
Have you ever studied the ambiguities inherent in speech and writing? 
Mind you, sometimes even replacing a word will not do much to clear
up the ambiguity. Accept the language the way it is, and stop waging
the "war of the sexes" on language.

>The easiest way to properly establish context, Mandar, is to use the
>word that most clearly conveys my meaning, not to use a less precise
>word then surround it with "this means women too!"  explananations.  

It is not always possible to find a precise word. And you are being
dense enough NOT to acknowledge that man includes women in certain
contexts, EVEN when the context is clear.

>If
>I say "all persons are created equal", I don't have to explain that
>"this means women too".
>

But you *do* have to explain that "this means animals and other living 
beings too", don't you? After all, animals too have rights, don't they? 
The point I am trying to make is : No matter how hard you strive, ambiguity 
in the English language is unresolvable.

                                                           Mandar.
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english,alt.feminism