HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Phone Zap - Astra in blinding PWAs with ASTRAnomical Greed
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 02:40:34 GMT


Re: what's her name...

She gave me her name when I was transferred to her, but I didn't 
think to write it down...all I had were notes from posts here 
that i wanted to discuss with her.  One idea would be to keep
calling Astra and inquiring about the price cap, if it's actual
and not just BS to get me off the phone, when it's going to 
be implemented, just WHAT kind of upper ceiling are we talking
about here, etc. etc.

One thing that does occur to me, if they only have a five year 
patent, and they've sunk $100mil into develp@ing the drug,
could they have -ever- expected to turn a profit on it?  I 
don't know the figures, but I doubt it; seems they wanted to 
go for some ready cash from the most available sources...
gov't and insurance companies.
-- 
You know life is an impossible scheme,
And love, an imperceptible dream...
     --- Pet Shop Boys
bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu (Ward Chanley)
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5428 rec.scouting:2403
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting,alt.athiesm
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:59:46 GMT
Organization: UB

In <1992Aug10.200624.5732@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:


>Actually, what two consenting adults do with each other currently has
>managed to infect about 1 million Americans, including tens of thousands
>of innocent individuals who DID NOT consent to sex.

Oh, and I suppose heterosexuals don't f*ck/rape/sexually abuse their
children/ eh, John ??

Get a clue

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.flame
From: jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (JohnC)
Subject: Re: Guy Who Got Fired at Sun for Homophobic Harrassment
Reply-To: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:22:55 GMT

In article <exuptr.290.713640569@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>In article <ofvbphg@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>In article <exuptr.286.713574478@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>>>>You have no idea whether or not Paul is HIV+.  
>>>Taking my response rather personally, aren't you.
>
>>No, your response was stupid.  I was pointing it our.
>
>Pointing it our?  That looks real good next to calling someone stupid.
               ^
Mr. Taylor, it's pretty lame to call somebody "stupid" for making a simple
typographical error.
(HINT: the "r" key is right next to the "t" key on a QWERTY keyboard)


    JohnC (jcav@midway.uchicago.edu)

Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5399 alt.flame:12003 talk.abortion:31346
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.flame,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Guy Who Got Fired at Sun for Homophobic Harrassment
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:29:29 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <ofvbphg@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <exuptr.286.713574478@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:

>>>You have no idea whether or not Paul is HIV+.  
>>Taking my response rather personally, aren't you.

>No, your response was stupid.  I was pointing it our.

Pointing it our?  That looks real good next to calling someone stupid.

>>>Why did you make such a stupid
>>>statement?
>>
>>Why did you?  I said what I said because I think it's really kinda f*cked
>>up to insinuate that Peewee's activities are sicker than his own.  

>The only person who saw that insinuation was you.

Well, then maybe you're stupid. :-b

>>I have no idea whether Paul has got anything to do with AIDS.  What I do
>>know is that promiscuity hurts more people than public masturbation.

>However, Paul sexuality is much more complex than public masturbation.
Probably, I'll grant you that.  I'll have to admit to not knowing the
whole story, but I based my reaction on what the author chose to highlight.

>Your absurd generalization was rather stupid and offensive.
Well I can't say that you're the only one it offended.  I can say that
I didn't mean it to be a slur against homosexuals.  I'm very aware of the
fact that heteros can spread AIDS.  Like I said before, Peewee may be
gay or may not, it doesn't matter to me.  Highlighting the movie thing as
a scum activity just seems out of place in a world where child molestation
and even worse occur daily.

>I still think that it is a stupid point.  Now, however, I think that you
>are stupid too...

That's what alt.flame is all about I guess.

>FWA
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - D Adams
  - Patrick Taylor
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    alternately, exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Frustration
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:36:09 GMT

I really feel frustrated.
It seems that the only thing that can be found in this newsgroup is
a large exchange of messages between Christian fanatics and GLH who answer
to their logocs with their own logic. And this goes on and on, and nobody
is really getting anything out of it.
It seems that the only places where something has any value are those with 
an "homogeneous population", where belonging is taken as granted, and real
problems and comments can be found.

I always though that this newsgroup gave us a unique opportunity. 
Thousands of people could exchange opinions in a positive way.
Pierce dixit: Listen and learn.
This newsgroups are a radical change on our way of communicating: For the
first time in history, we can exchange comments with thousands of people
at the same time.
I found positive things here: I learned about adoption problems and child
education in homosexual households, for example.
But, at some point, the preachers come back and start trying not to give 
opinions, but to imposse ideas as facts that should be recognized by 
everybody.

I would prefer see people just giving opinions, listening to others, and 
exchanging mora opinions. People willing to give an opinion eve if they
are not sure about it, and the others answering to it the best they can.
But, I hate when I see people telling others to accept their own opinions
as something that cannot be challenged, like if they had the truth on their
hands.

This is sad.

AAP
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: madlansacay@mary.fordham.edu (MADLANSACAY, NOEL)
Subject: Re: Phone Zap - Astra in blinding PWAs with ASTRAnomical Greed
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:00:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

>that i wanted to discuss with her.  One idea would be to keep
>calling Astra and inquiring about the price cap, if it's actual
>and not just BS to get me off the phone, when it's going to 
>be implemented, just WHAT kind of upper ceiling are we talking
>about here, etc. etc.
> 

The price cap sounds great.  But we need to look at it more closely.
If they say that the avarage cost is $10,000.00 wholesale (because they
are saying PWAs with CMV die in six months) is a $10,000.00 price cap 
acceptable?  It's not really the same as Astra halving the price. 

>One thing that does occur to me, if they only have a five year 
>patent, and they've sunk $100mil into develp@ing the drug,
>could they have -ever- expected to turn a profit on it?  


Astra refuses to present a data cost analysis.  They've put in $100million 
dollars, but the AIDS Acyion Council estimates that they will earn $168 million
to $420 million a year.  (This was based on $21500/year wholesale which they
initially priced Foscavir - i.e., $58.00 a day)  It seems Astra factored the 
price on a very unreal market.

Astra's 1991 profits were up 36% - to $600 million dollars.  They expect
20-25% increase in their profits this year.

Foscavir is at $24000+ wholesale a year.  The added cost of administering 
Foscavir will run to $100-300.00 a day.





Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rael@ll.mit.edu
Subject: Any Solid Evidence for Heterosexual/Homosexual "Promiscuity," etc.?
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:17:34 GMT

In  the  Thursday,  August  6  issue  of  _The Wall Street Journal_, Irving
Kristol,  in  typical fashion, bellows about ``promiscuity'' in general and
``homosexual  promiscuity.''  There  are  a number of unsupported claims by
this  corporate-funded  ``American  Enterprise  Institute  Fellow'' which I
would like to analyze:

     (1) ``AIDS  is a venereal disease that seems to have been born out of
         homosexual anal intercourse.''

     (2) ``research on AIDS is now more generously funded than research on
         cancer'' 

     (3) ``the  epidemic  character''  of  AIDS ``was first established by
         reason  of homosexual promiscuity, and has since been accelerated
         by sexual promiscuity in general''

     (4) ``homosexuals  tend  to  be  significantly  more promiscuous than
         heterosexuals''

Disregarding his thesis---that the ``liberal-progressive point of view'' is
at  the  heart  of  all  of  this---I was wondering if anyone has any solid
evidence for or against any of the above claims.

He provides no evidence whatsoever for any of his claims and is wonderfully
vague  about things in general. Point (1) above is blissfully imprecise and
uses   traditional   code   words  of  grasping  generalizations  based  on
speculation  rather  than fact (``seems to have been...''). I was under the
impression that no one really knows where the disease originated.

As  to  (2),  what  is  the  level  of public and private funding of cancer
research,  and  public  and private funding of AIDS research? Putting aside
the  question  of  public  subsidy to pharmaceutical companies which profit
from  public  largesse,  does  anyone  have  any  solid figures for research
spending?

As far as I know, point (3) might be close to the truth. The AIDS epidemic,
at  least  here  in  the  U.S.,  did seem to spread throughout the male gay
community  first,  then  to  the heterosexual community. However, I do note
that  his formulation is questionable, i.e., that something as imprecise as
``promiscuity'' can be used to gauge transmission of disease.

(4)  is highly questionable in my opinion, but I have no evidence to refute
this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bill Lear (rael@ll.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting,alt.athiesm
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting,alt.athiesm
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:14:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Aug18.221441.8981
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:

>A person also has total control over which political party they join and which
>religion they worship.  These have long been forbidden as grounds for
>discrimination.  Try again.

A clarification. Discrimination in employment, housing, and public
accommodation

on the basis of:                                   is generally:
-----------------                                  ------------
religious belief (including lack of belief)        illegal
political belief                                   legal
sexual orientation                                 legal but illegal in
                                                   some places.

So, you can be legally fired from your job in Peoria, Illinois, for
being gay, but not in Urbana, Illinois. You can be legally fired for
being a Republican (or Democrat), but not for being a Jew (or a
Christian, or an athieist).

Exception: In employment, some states now requiring firings to be for
cause, but in most states, employment-at-will is still the rule.

Some say that the BSA is a public accommodation and thus is barred
from discrimination. I disagree, I think the BSA's member's freedom of
association allow them to set whatever member policies they want.
(Similarly, a church can exclude people of different faiths. On the
other hand, no church that I know of asks the United Way for general
funds or expects public corporations to support it.)

I'm enclosing a reference talks more about employment-at-will for
those who are interested.

- Carl

ANNOTATED REFERENCES

(All these documents are available on-line. Access information follows.)

=================
civil-liberty/campaign-92.aclu
=================
The American Civil Liberties Union's planks for its "Campaign for the
Bill of Rights '92". The planks are 1) a national campaign against
bigotry and racism, 2) constitutional protection for a woman's right
to choose, 3) a realistic approach to crime and punishment, 4) a Bill
of Rights for all working people.

=================
=================

These document(s) are available by anonymous ftp (the preferred
method) and by email. To get the file(s) via ftp, do an anonymous ftp
to ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4), and get file(s):

  pub/academic/civil-liberty/campaign-92.aclu

To get the file(s) by email, send email to archive-server@eff.org.
Include the line(s) (be sure to include the space before the file
name):

send acad-freedom/civil-liberty campaign-92.aclu
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5426 rec.scouting:2401
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting,alt.athiesm
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:48:57 GMT
Organization: UB

In <1992Aug9.193325.21830@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:

>How does this differ from what Levi Strauss has done?  I see no difference
>except that you agree with Levi's actions, and not with the BSA's.  If
>the actions were reversed - that is, if Levi's just decided out of the
>blue to start funding BSA - would you complain that Queer Nation and
>every gay rights (sic) group in America was boycotting Levi's?  Most likely
>your remarks would NOT be that Queer Nation was just putting pressure on
>Levi's to get more <X>.

    Well, Levi's can give thier money to who they want.... *period*
It's there money..  If you choose not to give your money to them
because of what they coose to do fine...  But, The BSA has gone
further than that..  They're out screaming essentially trying to force
Levi's to give them money..  That wrong.

[drivel deleted]

    Your staements about a few bars doesn't say anything about the
rest of the gay & lesbian population anymore than the KKK represents
christians..   None of the gays or lesibans that I know (And I know
many a' fag & dyke) sleep around as much as you think (that includes
those who are incredible sluts)...  In fact most of them haven't slept
around as much as their het counterparts... Before you make
generalization about my community i suggest you get to know it first..

>It is no bigotted to say "if you sleep around, you will contract
>diseases that you catch by sleeping around."  It is IGNORANT to pretend
>otherwise.  But because you are afraid of being found out, you instead
>accuse those who know better of being bigots.  Well, you've been found
>out.

     I don't even know that shovel sh*t means.

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5438 rec.scouting:2421
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Guy Who Got Fired at Sun for Homophobic Harrassment
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:24:21 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug12.202255.9471@midway.uchicago.edu> jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (JohnC) writes:
>Xref: exucom.exu.ericsson.se alt.politics.homosexuality:1810 alt.flame:15102
>Path: exucom.exu.ericsson.se!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!west.West.Sun.COM!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!quads!jcav
>From: jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (JohnC)
>Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.flame
>Subject: Re: Guy Who Got Fired at Sun for Homophobic Harrassment
>Message-ID: <1992Aug12.202255.9471@midway.uchicago.edu>
>Date: 12 Aug 92 20:22:55 GMT
>References: <exuptr.286.713574478@exu.ericsson.se> <ofvbphg@fido.asd.sgi.com> <exuptr.290.713640569@exu.ericsson.se>
>Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
>Reply-To: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
>Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
>Lines: 16

>In article <exuptr.290.713640569@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>>In article <ofvbphg@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>>In article <exuptr.286.713574478@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) writes:
>>>>>You have no idea whether or not Paul is HIV+.  
>>>>Taking my response rather personally, aren't you.
>>
>>>No, your response was stupid.  I was pointing it our.
>>
>>Pointing it our?  That looks real good next to calling someone stupid.
>               ^
>Mr. Taylor, it's pretty lame to call somebody "stupid" for making a simple
>typographical error.
>(HINT: the "r" key is right next to the "t" key on a QWERTY keyboard)


>    JohnC (jcav@midway.uchicago.edu)

Even lamer calling someone stupid for their opinions you have misinterpreted.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - D Adams
  - Patrick Taylor
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    alternately, exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5457 rec.scouting:2492 alt.atheism:15476
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:46:31 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug10.215839.8088@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:

> But that doesn't change the FACT that hundreds and thousands of gay
> men EVERY YEAR can, and do change their sexual orientation.  

Jesus, loosen that IBM-blue tie and get yourself a clue.  You've been 
watching too many infomercials.

> We don't allow boys to join the Girl Scouts in part
> because young boys would rapidly learn that camping trips are a great
> way to have sex with young girls.

> Tell me will the Girl Scounts allow a virgin 15 year old boy to share
> a tent with a virgin 15 year old girl?

> Who said a 15 year old homosexual Boy Scout wouldn't try doing what a
> 15 year old heterosexual Boy Scout would love to do if he could just
> get his hands on a troop full of Girl Scouts?

> as well as the support of any pro-gay people who still
> don't want their sons and daughters going away on camping trips with
> other kids that view them as sexual oppurtunities.

And right behind your message are two from Denmark and Finland
explaining with perfect lack of sensationalism that co-ed troops are 
absolutely normal there.  

When we all get together on this green Earth to play Spot The Loonie, 
guess who's going to be "it?"
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Astra phone number
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:35:10 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

could someone send me the 1-800 phone number of Astra?

Thanks,



      __   __  ___
     /  \ /  \|   \
    |____|____|___/
    |    |    |
    aap@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:14:00 GMT


Re: Levis did it all by themselves...

Well, I wish they were so altruistic; I think that economics 
probably had a whole lot to do with it (anybody else a member
of the Gay & Les survey group Overlooked Opinions?  Maybe we
could get some of Levi-Strauss' demographics) but that is in
itself a minor consideration...a pro-Gay action is a pro-Gay
action no matter what prompted it.
-- 
You know life is an impossible scheme,
And love, an imperceptible dream...
     --- Pet Shop Boys
bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu (Ward Chanley)
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5420 rec.scouting:2397
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:51:40 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality

In article <1992Aug10.200624.5732@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1992Aug10.081714.7167@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
> >You may consider homosexuality immoral, but what two consenting adults
> >do with each other has no effect on anybody else.  Sexual harassment,
> >on the other hand, is _not_ a victimless crime.
> 
> Actually, what two consenting adults do with each other currently has
> managed to infect about 1 million Americans, including tens of thousands
> of innocent individuals who DID NOT consent to sex.

You are obviously unaware that the majority of AIDS cases worldwide
were contarcted heterosexually!

> Please, let us stop pretending that what you do in the privacy of your
> own bedroom really doesn't affect anyone else.  When you are a member
> of society, almost everything you do impacts the rest of society.  And
> when that impact is death, it is hard to argue that the impact is
> minimal or nonexistent.

Would that you understood that what you do in the privacy of your own 
office, at your very own keyboard also impacts the rest of society.
It has convinced me that you have the mind of a bigot and the sense of a
flea.

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:5458 rec.scouting:2493 alt.atheism:15477