HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Mysterious Galaxy and New Knowledge
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:11:08 GMT

In article <1gijloINNjqh@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, wjames@cse.ucsc.edu (John Amenta) writes in part:
|> Indeed.  If there is anything one can depend on in the history of
|> human Science, is that there is always much more to the Universe and
|> Reality than was known before.  We live in an incredible large mystery
|> of a Galaxy, where we are attempting to unravel the truth of it with
|> brains that don't even know how they function themselves, and with eyes
|> that cannot conceive of how they see but they do!  And isn't it funny,
|> that whenever new knowledge begins to show itself on the academic
|> horizon (such as psychical research) history always brings up men who
|> are violently opposed to even the possibility of a new piece of the
|> mystery being revealed?

"Psychical research" is hardly new.  It is an attempt to provide
secular explanations for well-known phenomena that are traditionally
given mystical or religious explanations, and it has been going
on for some 150 years (not counting the millenia of frankly mystical 
exploration).

In that time physiological, psychological, and sociological explanations 
of these phenomena have also been proposed.  It does tend to irritate
people when someone who knows nothing at all about these theories
and findings rejects them out of hand in favor of warmed over mystical 
ideas that have long been known to be untenable.

And speaking of "violent opposition", I've never seen any "academic"
flame as emotionally and irrationally as the flames I see in this
forum.  Who is it that is opposed to the mere possibility of a
new piece of mystery (as opposed to a very, very old piece) might be 
revealed?

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer)
Subject: Re: {Tele|Pyro}kinesis
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:52:37 EST

In article <1992Dec12.033552.4327@morwyn.uucp>
forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) writes:
 
>
>I just got done watching "Firestarter", which was a really neat flick.
If you liked the movie, read the book by Steven King.  The book was 10 times
better.
 
>It did, however, raise some questions in my mind about the paranormal
>in this respect.  It has long been claimed that we as a species had,
>long ago, a much higher ability in the psychic areas, but were somehow
>lost (evolution?).
 
Right.  I once heard something along those lines.  All the other predatory
animals had neat stuff like claws or ultrasonic hearing to give them
an advantage.  We didn't, so developed phenomena like ESP.  Which brings me
to an interesting point.  If we didn't know that some animals (like bats)
communicated via ultrasound, might it seem to us that they were somehow
using ESP or telepathy?  Maybe what we think of as paranormal abilities are
nothing more than a type of communication that we haven't yet developed the
technology to detect.  Once we do, there will be nothing "supernatural"
about it.
 
>I wonder if the concept introduced in this movie could be perhaps a
>little realistic.  I wonder if a chemical stimulation of some sort
>could in fact 'wake up' certain abilities within the mind.  I had
>never heard of the "SHOP" before, but given all the other governmental
>conspiracies and experimentations, I would doubt if they were working
>at/with something of the sort, somewhere.
 
Stephen King's pet evil government agency is the Shop.  He's used it in
several of his books, plus his "Golden Years" series.  I doubt if it
actually exists.
 
 
 
*************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A        |   Rebecca@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
(a.k.a Organic Lass of the LNH) |   Computing Assistant
                                |   Silliman College, Yale University
 
"You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."
                                                    - Anonymous
*************************************************************************
From: ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Theoretical Computer Science
Date: 14 Dec 92 08:38:17 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young

[ To reduce the confusion of accumulated ">|>>" thingies, I've tried to keep
  only what is more relevant to the discussion.  I'm sure, Robert, that you
  will point out to me what is missing that should be there ]

In <Bz3zB5.8IK@cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:

>|> When it is telepathy, what should the results show?
>You tell me.

See previous post, where a possible explanation is presented as to how
telepathy would work.

>If you want to discuss evidence of whether ESP DOES exist, then
>you show me your evidence.  Or at least give me a clue as to what
>it is you are asking me to show evidence for.

As with telepathy (see previous post explaining how telepathy would work),
the possibility that subatomic vibrations might be perceived by the brain
would explain the gathering of information through a falculty other than
the 5 senses.  Note that this explanation is valid only for present and
past events.

Do you have any information on why animals react in advance to severe
natural catastrophies?  With todays technology, we can predict such things
as earthquakes, though I have no idea of how long in advance these can be
predicted.  You live in the US and might be well informed about tornadoes and
how they form.  You might also know how long in advance they can be predicted.
If so, you might have a better explanation than I as to why animals are known
to react before the event occurs.  Since I'm uninformed, I can only suggest
that animals have an instinct for such things.  A sixth sense.  Some form
of ESP, since they can't read the newspaper or listen to the news.

>If information can be gathered in ways other that the known senses, then
>it MAY be equivalent to omniscience.  Since you can't tell me how ESP
>works, how can you tell me how it doesn't work.

Isn't omniscience knowing everything there is to know?  Once you know
everything, you don't need to gather information anymore since you already
have it, right?

>|> You're asking ME to tell YOU what YOU think ESP et al. are?

>No I want you to tell me what you think ESP etc. is.  If we can
>reach a common definition then we might make progress on the
>ORIGINAL topic, which was what the implications might be for the
>theory of computation.

I hope the definitions I have given you are clear enough.  Since you have
not given me your definitions, reaching a common one is not very likely.
But if I remember well, the original topic was as to the impossibility that
ESP and the likes could exist since that would imply that the basic tenets
of the theory of computation were false, having been based on the assumption
that ESP does not exist.

But then again, I could be wrong about the original topic.

>-- 
>  Robert E. McGrath

Ladislas.
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:28:59 GMT
Subject: Area 51 tonight?
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal

Did anyone hear if "sightings" was going to do a show on Area 
51?  I was washing dishes and didnt get to the living room in time
to hear the whole thing... I know they were talking about some
strange lights in a desert somewhere....  

Thanks, all... I think it will be tonite(?)

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: jjevissc@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Visscher)
Subject: Re: Mind as a computer
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:35:26 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

I suggest that all people who believe that the mind is
a computer read the book "The Emperor's New Mind" by
R. Penrose

       Jeroen Visscher              

-- 
       Jeroen Visscher              

Email: jjevissc@cs.ruu.nl       Mail: Van Lieflandlaan 12  (04)
       				      3571 AB Utrecht (Holland)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:07:32 EST
From: <TPL105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject:    THE STONED STAR?

     My girlfriend tells a story every Christmas, and when she found out
about this newsgroup she insisted that I post it and see what you all think.
     Every Christmas when she was very young, her family visted her
grandparents house, and every year (until about age 10, I think) she saw
the same wierd thing next to her grandparents' garage as she was leaving
Christmas Eve night.
     She says there was a very dim star floating near the ground by the
old garage...when I asked her if it looked like the cartoon sun on raisin
bran cereal, she said sort of.  She said it was always smiling a strange
smile, (it had a face), and its eyes were always helf closed.  Its expresssion
scared her until she got older and realized that it looked exactly like
someone who is stoned out of their skull.  She used to try and point it
out to her twin sister, who only once thought she saw it too.
     It got to be such a regular thing, I guess, that she started looking
for it each year.  Then one year, it wasn't there anymore, and it hasn't
been since.
     Any ideas or suggesttions?  She swears it was nothing physical, it was
floating around slowly and she's sure she wasn't mistaking an orange saucer-
sled for something else. (MY explanation)  I's appreciate any comments!
                                         Thanks
                                               Robb
                                               REG113@psuvm.cs.psu.edu
                                               TPL105@psuvm.cs.psu.edu
                                               gilmore@crayola.cs.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer)
Subject: Re: {Tele|Pyro}kinesis
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:52:51 EST

In article <1992Dec14.193709.4640@sobeco.com>
ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.) writes:
 
>
>In <168BDC58.REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
>
>>Stephen King's pet evil government agency is the Shop.  He's used it in
>>several of his books, plus his "Golden Years" series.  I doubt if it
>>actually exists.
>
>The "shop" could be interpreted as a common term for the characters' workplace.
>The term "shop-talk" is, I think, quite common.  When people from the same
>workplace meet outside normal working hours and talk about their business,
>they're talking "shop-talk".  The author might be using "Shop" as such a
>common term, being careful not to name any specific agency.
>In _Firestarter_, _Lawnmowerman_ and _Golden_Years_, when "shop" is mentioned,
>it is always done so by employees of the "shop".
 
No, in the book version of _Firestarter_, it was stated that the official
name of the shop was something like the DSA.  (Department of Scientific
Investigation).  I don't remember for sure; it's been awhile since I've
read any of Stephen King's stuff.  (His writing really went downhill.)
 
*************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A        |   Rebecca@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
(a.k.a Organic Lass of the LNH) |   Computing Assistant
                                |   Silliman College, Yale University
 
"You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."
                                                    - Anonymous
*************************************************************************
 
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: btwalker@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN THOMAS WALKER)
Subject: Re: psychics and other related phenomena
Originator: btwalker@c00084-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: btwalker@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN THOMAS WALKER)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:11:39 GMT



	my only problem with telepathy is everyone's brain is different in 
structure and organisation so that the electro-chemical impulses that
would allow someone to tune in to your thoughts would correspond to
the same thoughts in the telepath.  emotions being general would be easier
to read, but thoughts that could jepardise the secrecy that our gover-
ment thrives in would be safe from telepaths.
	i have never heard of someone who could specifically 'read' an 
abstract thought from another person.  i guess you could pick up pictures
but i'm not sure how...

	btwalker
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:16:01 GMT
Subject: Help, Mr. Wizard!
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal

Does anyone know of any good references about recent attempts to 
isolate, study or kick ghost-butt?

I have checked the libraries and bookstores and there arent a lot of
them referring in detail to anyone seriously trying to kick a ghost's
butt i.e. using scientific instruments to  shock them, or short them out
or interfere with the physical properties which enable them to appear
where they should not.  Like jamming them i.e. with high EM fields
or seeing if they can be cooked with severe Microwave radiation etc..

Ha ha you say. Well, heck..being the extreme skeptic that I am, and 
knowing that I have to assume that what ever allows entities to exist
must be physical laws that we dont understand, any attempt to study 
them will have to start by grasping at straws, right? I mean the only 
things I have found so far deal with small variations in static fields
or magnetic field anomalies, temperature etc.. 
There are apparently no empirical data sources compiled that I have 
found...(I guess there might be lots in files at Universities etc..but
I dont have access to this stuff).. I have lots of ideas but no money
so I will have to be content with reading about research in this area.

If there are Universities and private institutions checking stories and 
investigating, where can one get their hands on this stuff?

I find the subject very fascinating to the point that I feel very
sorry for people who are tormented by ghosts and demons etc...
There appears no way to fight back or any expertise on the part
of the tormented to try something radical (like flooding the 
area with EM, or high static fields to see if there is a reaction)
other than to call their local parish or psychic.  Some of these
ghosts seem downright mean and pissed off and I for one vote to
kick their butts... Ahh, if only I had lots of money to sit around
and invent extremely hazardous mechanisms to razz some ghost-butt.

But then again, if there really are demons and ghosts, I just might
end up pissing one off so bad it will torment me for the rest of 
my life, huh?.....

Any help would be appreciated.


all disclaimers apply.
From: ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: {Tele|Pyro}kinesis
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:37:09 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young

In <168BDC58.REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
 
>Stephen King's pet evil government agency is the Shop.  He's used it in
>several of his books, plus his "Golden Years" series.  I doubt if it
>actually exists.
 
The "shop" could be interpreted as a common term for the characters' workplace.
The term "shop-talk" is, I think, quite common.  When people from the same
workplace meet outside normal working hours and talk about their business,
they're talking "shop-talk".  The author might be using "Shop" as such a
common term, being careful not to name any specific agency.
In _Firestarter_, _Lawnmowerman_ and _Golden_Years_, when "shop" is mentioned,
it is always done so by employees of the "shop".
 
>*************************************************************************
>Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A        |   Rebecca@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
> 

Ladislas.
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal

Does anyone know how to subscribe to something called 
the Skeptical Inquirer?  

Thanks all.

Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: Robert McGrath, more Skepticism, and Another Reply
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:19:33 GMT

In article <1gj9teINNpi5@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, wjames@cse.ucsc.edu (John Amenta) writes in part:
|> >> In that time physiological, psychological, and sociological explnations
|> >> people when someone who knows nothing at all about these theories
|> >> and findings rejects them out of hand in favor of warmed over mystical
|> >> ideas that have long been known to be untenable.
|> 
|> I agree.  Many mystical conceptions I feel have distorted the basic
|> truth of paranormal events.  However, in recent time, this has changed,
|> after such men as William James, F.W.H. Myers, and Murphy Gardner
|> approached the phenomena in a most serious manner.

It has also been seriously studied by others you sort of forgot
to mention.  Try Hyman, Alcock, Hilgard.  Try Podmore.  Try Blackmore.
Lots of people have taken it seriously.

|> Why are you
|> so close minded to the possibility that paranormal phenomena could
|> exist?
Why are you so close minded to the possibility that paranormal phenomena
do not exist?  Why are you so close minded to the possibility that
non-paranormal explanations of PP could be correct?

Note, by the way, that I have never, ever said PP "could not exist".
I have however repeated said that there is no evidence that particular
PP actually DO exist.  Personally I think precognition is flat
out impossible, but I have never said that telepathy or PK are
impossible.  They are conceivable, they just aren't in fact true.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:25:15 GMT

It seems that the problems with the bus and CPU and why windows is as fast as
it is (slwo) is becuase the programmers violate when of the basic ideas of
programming/hackers, and that is to made the programe do as much as it can with
as little source code as possible.. Windows is slow becuase the programmers
write it that way cause they don't care how much memory it takes up, they casn
always get more, and besudes its profitable for people to have to go out and
get more RAM and memory, just to try out that new program. What seems to need
to be donw is to write windows wmore efficiently..

nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Macintosh VR
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:26:06 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Sat 28 Nov 92  1:04, Macbeth@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu
wrote:

 M> Come on! An Amiga 4000? True, the graphics speed is quite impressive
 M> and I the 800 X 600 mode, however, 256 colors is passe, even for VR. We

Er, 256 colors is but just one possibility.  The A4000 can do 256,000
colors at once easily out of a palette of 16.4 million.  If you want to
stretch things, you can do 700,000 colors at once.

 M> processing speed is not that amazing. For the price of an Amiga 4000
 M> you can 
 M> buy a SUN SparcStation Classic with 16 MB RAM, 207 MB HDD, 3.5" HD,
 M> and 15" 1024 X 768 monitor.

A dealer in Tampa, Florida is selling the A4000 for $2600.  If you say that
one can purchase the SUN SparcStation Classic with the above specs for
$2600, tell me where!  I am interested in checking this out.  What CPU does
it have?

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
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 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Multi-processor Noding
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:01:50 GMT

In article <17321@umd5.umd.edu>, jake@melmac.umd.edu (Rob Borsari) writes:
> In article <If6IvgG00WB=08j2Jp@andrew.cmu.edu> jsct+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua Eli Schachter) writes:
> 
>>Re: Amigas
>>
>>What's built-in hardware? It's not doing symmetric multitasking.
>>
>>Get used to timeslicing like the rest of us.
> 
> I belive the hardware he is talking about is the graphic and sound 
> co-processers.  The amiga can tell the sound chip to begin playing a sample
> and ignore it while it is playing, freeing the processer for processing.
> It can also tell the blitter to move a bitfield and just let it run.
> It is still timeslicing but by unloading these functions you can have
> smooth graphics and sound even on a system that has a 7mhz 68000 as the
> main processer.  The faster amigas like the 3000 and 4000 can hold
> 30fps when page fliping even with big deltas because the co-processers
> access to the DMA ram (chip ram) is faster.  Note: it is capable of much
> higher frame rates but for real time animation 30fps is considered 
> a good tradeoff between smoothness of motion and bulk of files.  
> 
>>.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
>>:.      These opinions are MINE! MINE! Hear me? They're all MINE!        .:.:
>>.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> 
> Disclamer: I own amigas because they are cheap. If I could afford an
> 	   Indigo I wouldn't be living here. ;)  (Ailas is down to $6600)
> 
> -- 
> jake@melmac.umd.edu   Rob Borsari     "Bourne to be whiled"
Sounds like noding, where there is a central clearing house processor, and
processors for specific tasks. Once the central processors does it keep track
of the task subject, and who (which node) is doing it) and weather it is
completed.. Specific task processors..


Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace