From: sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS)
Subject: Re: Anti-"Macedonian" Legal Acts by Successive Greek Gvmnts - Reply
Organization: Dept. Engineering Computer Resources, Melbourne Uni.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 10:36:32 GMT

In article <11897.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Micha
el Polymenakos)  writes about the oblivious nature of fellow Greeks when represe
nted with basic facts about their governments clearly discriminatory laws.

Greetings Michael,

 > seriously. With the President of the rebublic of Greece (Konstantine
 > Karamanlis) being a Macedonian, and with the population of

A Greek Macedonian in that, hence not a Macedonian who is seeking the
independence role which Greece has conveniently blocked. By this your
argument becomes redundant. Greeks rallying in Greece really is only
a reflection of the paranoia within Greek citizens who for the last
12 months have read, been fed, and even dreamt that Macedonia is Greek.

 >> I have a genuine interest to hear a Greek's response
 >>to the successive Greek governments laws which clearly discriminate
 >>against Macedonians living within Aegean Macedonia.

 > See above. What laws? Everything you presented so far refers only
 > to measures passed after 1913, after the population exchange with
 > Yugoslavia.

Denial is fruitless. Let me have the liberty to refresh some points.
Here are just two which I would dearly appreaciate an explanation on.

  * On September 7, 1938 the legal Act No. 2366 was issued which
    banned the use of the Macedonian language. All Macedonian
    localities were flooded with posters: "Speak Greek". Evening
    schools were opened in which adult Macedonians were taught Greek.
    Not a single Macedonian school functioned at that time.

  * On August 23, 1953 the legal Act No. 2536 was issued, on the
    strength of which all those who left Greece and who did not
    return within three years time could be deprived of their
    property.

   A decision on the resettlement of Macedonians was then taken. A
wide-flung campaign was launched in the mass media to induce the
Macedonians to leave their native areas voluntarily and to settle in
the south of the country and on the islands. The Greek authorities
intended to create a 60 kilometre-wide belt along the border with
Yugoslavia where "the faithful sons of the Greek nation" were to be
settled.

 > Unless you can prove that Greece forcefuly obliged non-Greeks to
 > remain in Greece in violation of the agreement (which is absurd; why
 > would the Greeks do that?) the rest of your arguments are irrelevant.

The issue is former residents living in the Aegean Macedonian part of Greece
who are clearly discriminated against. I thought that was clear. I again
know many personally who are now living in Australia who were forced out
of their land, their homes, the very same places their ancestors had 
plowed their fields, their farms... and my reaction being of disbelief
how this can happen with people alive to tell the tale even today - not
several centuries ago. I guess they will die of old age shortly and that
original source will reduce to a mere page of a text. The real life thing
is a whole lote different that reading it in a book I tell you.
Even in the last ten years Greek LAWS are being introduced to try
and finally seal any loopholes or backdoors to fair play for Macedonians.

  * On December 29, 1982 during the rule of Andreas Papandreou the
    legal Act No. 106841 was issued. On the strength of that Act
    only Greeks by origin had the right to Greek citizenship and the
    right to return to Greece restored. Macedonians born in Greece
    and their families have been excluded. They were and are doomed
    to live in exile. Heads of various rungs of the state
    administration received the right to make free use of the
    property left in Greece by Macedonian refugees.
 
   The Greek authorities refer to that hostile Act whenever they
reject Macedonian demands for the recovery of Greek citizenship
taken away by default. They refer to that "law" even in their
explanations to the Centre for Human Rights in Geneva! (text
provides ref. to enclosures 10 and 11).

  The Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Paris, December 1948:

  Art. XIII, Point 2: "Everyone has the right to leave every
                      country, including one's own, and to return
                      to his own country."
 
  Art. XV, Point 1: "Each man has the right to have a citizenship."

  Art. XV, Point 2: "No one can be freely dispossessed of his
                    citizenship."

What Europe Had Forgotten: The Struggle of the Aegean Macedonians.

 >  Some people (only two persons to be exact) living in Greece now claim
 > to be "Slav-Macedonians". They overlook the fact that their ancestors

This is simply untrue, and I am sure you are aware now that you have
zero chance of proving such a point. I myself know at least a whole
family which includes more than 'two persons' living in Greece who
claim to be as you say "Slav-Macedonians". Do you really believe what
you just wrote. I trust your reference was towards those two Macedonians
who are on trial for speaking out about their Macedonian Nationlity.
I can understand that you would believe only two would speak out,
if this was the treatment which was awaiting them.

 > Most of the cities in Macedonia were before 1913 called
 > different names by Greeks and Slavs, and naturally, the Greek government
 > standarised the use of the Greek names.

What you call "standardization" others call falsification and denial. What is
the real sense in changing what already is. Western Nations today try with
effort to retain a presence of original occuption by their former land
dwelleers, what they be. Australia for instance is plagued with Aboriginal
terms. Our very own capital, CANBERRA is Aboriginal for 'meeting place'.
With the Aboriginal problem (some say what problem, but there certainly
is a problem. They are by far still discriminated against), Australians
still are not ashamed of their previous occupants. Why did Greece scurry
frantically changing every town and river name. For what purpose? 
To 'standardise' or to 'cleanse' - the same type of (albiet Ethnic)
Cleansing occuring in Bosnia by Serba (a Greek Ally in the past, present
and no doubt future).

 >  Finally, regarding the refusal of Greece to accept the existence of a
 > "Slav-Macedonian" nation: The EEC, the US, the UN all seem to agree. I
 > find the arguement that Greece has been twisting the arms of all these
 > powerful nations/organisations to be absurd. How could Greece force
 > Britain, Frace, Germany, Italy etc into a UNANIMOUS decision on Lisbon?

You know perfectly well that if Greece was not a member of the European
Community that Macedonia would have been recognised long ago and all this
would be purely academic. Further you are clearly aware even if you refuse
to accept or even admit that the flowdown effect from the E.C. onto
Powerful Nations outside of Europe, the United States a clear example,
is to say "we shall wait for the E.C. to decide" who coming back have
Greece as a member and need total agreement, being EVERY member agreeing
on a move which goes back into another viscous circle ...

 > What leverage does Greece have against the US gov. that Turkey does not
 > have? How about China, India, Brazil, Canada, Australia, and over 150
 > more countries that have thrown Vardar's request for recognition in thei
 > r waste baskets? Why do Bush nd Clinton agree on this subject, when they
 > disgree on other things?

Canada, Australia ... follow suit with the United States waiting for the
E.C. (in hope) to solve its own internal problems within Europe
[what is an outsider to tell people inside Europe to do?].
Since the E.C. has shown to be inadequate to solve the problems
within Europe, i.e. Bosnia still aflame... organisations from outside
are beginning to overrule the E.C., namely the United States possible
Military Offensive in Bosnia, namely the United Nations consideration 
for the application of Member by the Republic of Macedonia. This
normally shouldn't be necessary by a competent European Community, 
one which is not preoccupied with 'Economics' over rightful action.

 > Michael.
                                                  
Sasa.


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