HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:09:01 CDT
From:         Joe Moore <CC19@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: I Am Someone Doing The Best That He Can

I realize that I'm taking one statement out of context here, but I
want to make a point.  Most of the post was very good.  But when you
said:
>
>   Naturally I will disagree with you about some of these topics.  But remember
>   logic is also capable of explaining away the reasons to follow God.  Logic
>   is not necessarily good in itself, it is merely a tool and whoever best uses
>   the tool can achieve the results they desire.
>
Logic (according to a very old Webster--sorry that's all I have) is
basically the study of reason and validity.  That is what truth is
all about.  The Word that became flesh in the beginning of John is
the Logos.  Logic, properly applied, is a Very Good Thing.  It comes
from God himself and God himself is the nature of truth.  The cults
and new age believers like to say that reason and logic aren't
important; let's not follow them down that slippery slope.

Don't get me wrong.  Logic does not mean there are no miracles.  It
simply means that the God who performs them is self-consistent.  We
cannot always see all of the connections.

Joe Moore
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:57:39 EDT
From:         WALTER SHERRILL <SHERRIWR@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RE:Judging others

I have been receiving multiple copies also. I am wondering why this is
happening. Reply when you figure it out. Thanks
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: History of Marian devotion (Re: Mary & colour blue)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:58:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.210606.2489@gboro.glassboro.edu> nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham) writes:
>     In a discussion of Revelation 12, Brad Kaiser mentioned the identification
>of the woman with Mary as one interpretation of the passage.  I wondered
>whether Marian devotion is of sufficiently ancient origin that the author
>and audience of Revelation would have had Mary in mind.

   The notes to the _New American Bible_ (Catholic) say that the woman
symbolizes God's people in the Old and New Testaments.  It says the Israel
of old gave birth to the Messiah, becoming the new Israel, the Church, which
is persecuted by the dragon (Satan).

   It also mentions a parallel to an ancient myth, in which a pregnant
goddess, pursued by a monster, gave birth to a son who then killed the
monster.  I think, then, that the author of Revelation, knowing this myth,
used it as a model for his symbolism about Christ's victory over Satan.

   By the way, in Catholic theology both Mary and the Church are thought
of as Mother figures (but neither as a goddess figure 8-)).

--Steve

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:54:00 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757
Ian,

"ALL of us were in sin before we found Jesus".  Does this mean that once
you become a Christian, you no longer sin?  I thought that all humans
were sinners, even Christians.  Could you elaborate?  Thanks.
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Living Revelation Today
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:47:19 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Hi Jesse, thanks for your response.  I guess I agree with "Mary" er...
I mean Elizabeth, on this one...(Hi Elizabeth!).

Maybe I didn't state my question well enough....  What I want to know is
who started reading the text the way you do and running the logic on it the
way you obviously understand it?  Surely it wasn't the brothers who went into
the council and christened the "canon."  Did they walk in the room one minute
with direct revelation on there lips and then walk out with the Bible and
a diploma from the school of direct revelation?   Do you understand what I am
asking?  The Orthodox Churches and the Roman Catholic Churches believed then
and I assume they believe now that Christ still speaks directly through the
Church.  If they believe(d) this to be the case, who finally figured out thru
the Scriptures the Church had canonized, and logic, that they were wrong and
direct revelation was out?  Who and when?

Obviously we disagree on the issue of direct revelation.  I'll ask Jesus and
see who is right :)  (:
                             I want you to know that I have no bad intonations
                             in my voice as I am saying this... we lose so much
                             of human communication on these machines.
           Love, Zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:03:57 -0500
From:         "Michael S. Muegel" <mmuegel@MOT.COM>
Subject:      Non-Delivery Report for <9208202112.AA23053@motgate.mot.com>
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

The Mot.COM major relay, Pobox.Mot.COM, was not able to transfer electronic
mail messages from 3:26 pm to 6:18 pm CDT on Thursday, August 21. An
inspection of the electronic mail system log files shows that a mail
message you sent was not delivered. Your mail message should have been sent
to your local mail manager (ala postmaster) for disposition.

Some important facts on the mail that was undelivered:

   Message-ID:                 <9208202112.AA23053@motgate.mot.com>
   Sender:                     <CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
   Recipient:                  <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.mot.com>
   Size:                       4847 bytes
   Date of transfer to Pobox:  Aug 20 16:12:41 CST

This message has been generated automatically. If you need further
clarification feel free to contact me directly.

-Mike

--
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Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R2).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:10:44 EDT
From:         DDAVIDSON@CBACC.CBA.UGA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Southern US
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Here's a story about Christianity in the Southern US that was related to me
> recently:
>
> A woman's brother-in-law [I think that was the connection] related this.
> They moved to Atlanta recently.  Everywhere they go (supermarket, social
> funtions, etc.), when they meet people, the people always ask them, "So where
> do you go to church?"
>
> It seems that they had a plumbing problem.  They called a plumber to come out
> and work on it.  During the course of his work he asked them, "So where do you
> go to church?"  They told him they didn't go to church.  For some reason the
> job required him to leave, and come back at a later time to finish the job.
> Apparently, when he found out that they didn't go to church, he never came
 back
> to finish the job.
>
> As my brother said, It's not a relationship, it's a social club.
>
> You might be able to tell that my brother and I are somewhat cynical.  Growing
> up in southern California, where going to church is NOT the thing to do,
> we are kinda sensitive about this social christianity that exists in the
 South.

Mark, don't just the church, the body of Christ, by a few people.  I
am from the south and there isn't anything wrong with asking someone
where they go to church.  I ask to find out if they aren't going to a
church regularly, and if not I invite them to come and worship with
us at our church.  The Bible says ' whosoever will let him come.'
The body of Christ is a family, but not a social club.

a servant of Christ,
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Dennis Davidson             |                                   |
 | ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu |                                   |
 | University of Georgia       |                                   |
 | 706-542-3821                |                                   |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:09:10 EDT
From:         WALTER SHERRILL <SHERRIWR@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RE:Judging others
              18 Aug 1992 16:17:18 -0600 from <gallowav@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU>

Yes, we must pray that we remain strong in God to at one hand resist evil
influences and at the same time balance oru responsibility to shine as lights
of this world, salt of the earth.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:38:26 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Non-Delivery Report for <9208211408.AA04607@motgate.mot.com>
              21 Aug 1992 21:56:32 -0500 from <mmuegel@NEXT3.CORP.MOT.COM>

Hi all:

I vote we start a new game.  Let's call it, "What's wrong with Brad's
mail?"

My first theory is sunspots.  But I'm open to other possibilities.

Brad, can you hear us?  Are you still out there?  Who runs your site,
anyway?  The Post Office?  The Congress?  The Congressional Post Office?

I think Brad's site is being controlled by the Eastern Liberal Press
and the Illuminati.

Free Brad Kaiser!

Love INC,
         --Kerry (in kind of a funny mood tonight)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:29:35 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      For Sunday 23 August 1992
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

FOR SUNDAY 23 AUGUST 1992

READING: Isaiah 28:14-22
 (Woe to those who put their trust in false protectors. Their
assurance will come to nothing. But the LORD will lay in Zion a
precious cornerstone, a sure foundation, and righteousness and
justice shall triumph.)

PSALM 46
 (God is our refuge, though the mountains shake. (Basis for Luther's
"A mighty fortress is our God"))

EPISTLE: Hebrews 12:18-19,22-29
 (We have come, not to Mount Sinai, but to the heavenly Jerusalem.
The gift offered us here is far more wonderful than that offered to
the Jews at Mount Sinai. How much more terrible, then, to reject it!
God will shake earth and heaven, and only the unshakable will
remain.)

THE HOLY GOSPEL: Luke 13:22-30
 (Jesus warns His hearers against complacency as regards their
eternal status.  "Some who are first will be last, and some who are
last will be first.")

PRAYER
   Grant, we beseech thee, merciful God, that thy Church,
   being gathered together in unity by thy Holy Spirit, may
   manifest thy power among all peoples, to the glory of thy Name,
   through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with
   thee and the same Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:52:15 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CYNDI CAIN'S FALSE WORDS.
              21 Aug 1992 08:13:00 EST from
              <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan Graham :

Sweetie , I agree with every word you said .  But your caps lock is
stuck .  Thought you'd want to know .

Love INC ,
          -- Kerry
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: 888
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:27:12 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Brad, sorry, I just forgot to mention that the 24 is also a perfect number.
That is, its factors are 1,2,3,4,6,and 8 and their sum is 24 as well.  So
the numbers 12 + 12 and 8 + 8 + 8 also signify perfection... (sorry Kerry,
I hope you're not freeking out at all of these numbers!)
                                                   Peace, Zane.
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Direct Revelation, passe?
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:26:01 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Dear Zane ;

2 Tim 3 says that all Scripture is "breathed out" by the Lord and that it is
completely sufficient as pertains to matters of life and faith.
If it is, then direct revelation from God is passe.
If direct revelation, theoretically speaking were not passe, then how do we
objectively judge such writings as the Mormon's, Mary Baker Eddy's, the "Watch
Tower" of the J.W.'s?
Without a sufficient and complete canon, we are left in a morass of subjective
epistemological uncertainty.
We are talking simply this : "Is the Written Word of God SUFFICIENT or not?
If so, then all direct revelation is superfluous as per post canon.
If not, then we have no objective, absolute criterion by which to evaluate
these "Johnnys come lately" who bring their "direct revelations" with them.






Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:35:50 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      RE: temporary radio silence

Good luck, Kerry, and may we all bcome better servants...

                                Glennerd
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:25:17 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU@motgate.mot.com

Dave Talaga writes:

>...If it is true that the scripture, the living word of God, is in error in one
> place, then God himself is no longer perfect...

Huh?  The Bible is a book.  It is translated, typeset, and printed by
fallible human beings.  It is interpreted by fallible human beings
(for the most part ... ahem! ;-) ).  For centuries, it was copied by
hand, by fallible human beings.

It was written by Divinely inspired authors, but those authors
belonged to a different culture than ours.  They grew up with totally
different experiences than ours, they spoke different languages than
we did.  In many ways, their religious experiences were even different
than ours!

I will gladly agree with you that the Bible is probably *the* single
most reliable document of ancient origin we have.  But to somehow
argue that if the Bible is not perfect, then God is not perfect
either, is to run the risk of blaming God for our own human failings.
Dave, if that's what your faith is based on, what would happen to *it*
if you became convinced that the Bible had some subtle and obscure
error in an OT historical detail ???

I think that there are firmer foundations upon which to build
Christian Faith; my experience is consistent with that belief, also.

The Bible is not God.  The Bible may or may not be perfect, but God
*is* eternally perfect.  The true "living word of God" is the Word
which became flesh and dwelt among us; may His Name be praised!

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:54:39 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Can Satan heal?
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Can Satan heal?

I remember a story once about one of our astronauts who was healed by a
witch's coven over the telephone.

The difference was that they read he was having back problems. They told
the astronaut that he would feel heat in his back. He did. It was not
where he was hurt. He told them things like "Lower.... To the left...
deeper in the back... etc." When it was over the exact spot that hurt,
the heat increased and he was supposedly healed. Wish I could remember
more, but this was back in the 70's.

Anyhow, this hardly compares to a man of God that can, through a word
of knowledge, come up to a man and say "You hurt your back 3 years ago
working on your car. God is healing it now." when this man has never met
the person receiving the healing. This man doesn't need to know where the
pain is, and has not read that he hurt his back, nor does he have to know
that his "healing" is in the right spot as God is the healer.

Satan can only imitate. God the Creator, heals as He already knows
what's going on. He don't have to observe first.

Maks.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:01:47 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      environmentalism == (neo)paganism
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

	There have been some interesting posts recently on environmentalism
that bother me a little.
	I get the impression that some are judging evironmentalism as 'bad'
because of an association with new age and hippie-dom and paganism etc.
I think people have a tendency to judge things guiltly by association, and
since religion is a "charged" issue, the tendency is even greater.  We need
to be careful about that.
	It is true, neoPaganism and its watered-down offshoot NewAge, and
related belief systems tend to foster environmentalism.  Since there is
often a focus on the Earth as Mother, this is a logical result.
	I don't think we need to go and say that the reverse is true and that
environmentalism fosters paganism.  Let's make our judgements of the issues
based on the aurguments, not because we are opposed to the religious
beliefs of some (or even many) of the proponents.

	Personally, as a chemistry major, I have dealt with alot of chemicals
in the past few years, and have learned to respect them.  (But not to fear
them!)  That is one reason I am all for _ reasonable _ guidlines governing
their use and disposal.  And against the unreasonable fears.  (Many chemicals,
in the concentrations used, are less toxic that peanut butter, or a glass of
wine.  But because they are "chemicals" people are afraid of them.)

	Good arguements can be made for most of the environmental issues.
Maybe not if taken to the extremes some do, but to reasonable extents, yes.

Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: dzeigler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Daniel R Zeigler)
Subject: Re: Netnews Statistics
Summary: Kerry's OK!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:36:45 GMT


Most of Kerry's messages are rather brief; some are two-line questions (in 
which case she always mentions the option of replying via private e-mail).  
Most of * my * transmissions are rather long-winded.  I write fewer times, but 
probably take up just about as much bandwidth.

I don't always agree with what Kerry has to say, but I find her posts 
articulate; they generally add some new thought to the conversation rather than
rehashing some old point or merely adding a "me, too."

So, Kerry, please don't stop writing!

In Jesus,
Daniel
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:51:00 CDT
From:         Brenda/Bren <BJGAGE@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer request

Bernice, I will be praying for you and your mother that the will of God
be done because He alone knows what is best for each of us.  I do under-
stand what you are passing through because my mother has so many health
problems and the quality of her life is limited also.  I pray that God
will grant you His peace that passes all understanding because we do at
times question why and the answer never seems to come but I do know and
have experienced His wonderful peace that was more than able to keep me
during those troubled times.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:25:52 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Did JESUS respect beliefs?
              13 Aug 1992 03:04:00 GMT from <psyrobtw@UBVMSB.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

Dear Robert Weiss et al. ;

Sorry to give a divergent view, but if I am not mistaken, the phrase, "verily,
verily" actually means "truly, truly" ... not "amen, amen."

Or, to say it differently, "It is a REALLY TRUE when I say to you that ..."
Again, Jesus showed no disrespect for Nicodaemus as a person made in God's
image.

Further, WHAT do people mean when they assert, "respecting a person's beliefs?"
Define the term "respect" in THIS context, por favor?



Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 11 Aug 1992 23:15:04 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Sins, for Bernice

Thank you for that message, Bernice.  Glennerd.
From: B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (Sieg A U R I C H)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Dittoheads
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:26:00 GMT
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X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: B882SA

I had heard that there was  a mail box for Rush Limbough fans. Is anyone aware
of it and how to get on?

                Sieg :{>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:20:00 CDT
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: brad ain't gettin' his mail
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
X-cc:         kste@PURCCVM.BITNET

Kerry,

	Don't worry  - you're not the only one!!

		Sieg :{>
From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: 888
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:30:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.

In article <920819.110952.SAT.FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET> 
  FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran) writes:
>Brad, sorry, I just forgot to mention that the 24 is also a perfect number.
>That is, its factors are 1,2,3,4,6,and 8 and their sum is 24 as well.  So
>the numbers 12 + 12 and 8 + 8 + 8 also signify perfection... (sorry Kerry,
>I hope you're not freeking out at all of these numbers!)

Sorry spud, but 24 isn't a perfect number (although 28 is), you forgot
the factor 12.  6 is a perfect number, combining 3 6's gives us....
hmmmm maybe this numerology stuff ain't all it's cracked up to be.

>                                                   Peace, Zane.

C Frog
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