From: kristinw@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.madonna
Subject: Re: SEX! and Madonna
Date: 4 Nov 92 22:28:04 MDT
Organization: Utah State University




In article <-hg10jf@rpi.edu>, lohrbt@rs6215.ecs.rpi.edu (Trevor Wolfgang Lohrbeer) writes:
> I bought the book.  Forty dollars actually. I read the book. It was tame, but 
> in today's social environment, inevitably needed.
> 
> The book is not pornographic.  Some of it is art, some of it is erotica. Either
> way, none of it is dirty.  It's a new concept, particuliarly to the Western 
> world. In my view, it was an amusing erotica album; the type one puts out on 
> a coffee table for people to flip through when visiting.
> 
> The photographs are about as risque as Playboy, some edging toward Penthouse.
> There was really nothing these magazines haven't been doing for years.  But it
> brought it out as a new concept.  The whole concept of nude photographs being
> erotica rather than porn.
> 
> I've seen soft porn magazines (i.e.: Club International) as well as what is 
> often cited as porn magazines (i.e.: Playboy, Penthouse). Madonna makes an 
> important step to recategorising the latter into the category of erotica. 
> 
> I, myself, am exploring the fine lines between art, erotica and pornography. How
> pornographic can one get before one stops calling it art and starts calling it
> porn?  What exactly is porn?  Is it anything that turns you on? It is anything
> that degrades women, or mixes violence with sex?  I'm going to a seminar on
> pornography tomorrow, so maybe I'll get a few of these questions answered. What
> I do say is that nothing Madonna does is pornographic. She's trying to get 
> people to understand their sexuality and the simple fact that people see her 
> acts as pornographic is proof that they are do not understand sex all that well.
> 
> Finally let me say that Madonna grabbing her crotch has nothing to do with sex.
> It is a common gesture in certain sub-cultures indicating power over someone 
> else and happens to be done mainly by men.  Madonna, in grabbing her crotch, is
> saying that men and women are equal. It's about equality, not sex.
> 
> Oh yeah.  And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Madonna's original
> profession (the one she was trained for and originally claimed to be) as a 
> dancer. Everyone's saying that she can't sing, she can't act, etc., but no one
> has said anything about her dancing ability. Remember her roots. She's a dancer
> who's hobbies happen to be music, acting, etc.
> 
>                                               - trevor lohrbeer
> 
>      No more peeping through keyholes! No more masturbating in the dark! No more
> public confessions! Unscrew the doors from their jambs! I want a world where 
> the vagina is represented by a crude, honest slit, a world that has feeling for
> bone and contour, for raw, primary colors, a world that has fear and respect 
> for its animal origins. I'm sick of looking at cunts all tickled up, disguised,
> deformed, idealized. Cunts with nerve ends exposed. I don't want to watch young
> virgins masturbating in the privacy of their boudoirs or biting their nails or
> tearing their hair or lying on a bed full of bread crumbs for a whole chapter.
> I want Madagascan funeral poles, with animal upon animel and at the top Adam and
> Eve, and Eve with a crude honest slit between the legs. I want hermaphrodites
> who are real hermaphrodites, and not make-believes walking around with an 
> atrophied penis or dried-up cunt. I want a classic purity, where dung is dung 
> and angels are angels.
>                                   - Henry Miller, Black Spring, 1963.
> 
I cannot believe that both of you are supporting Madonna's new book.  It makes
me sick to think that that type of pronography is available to anyone who wants
it.  I define pornography as any picture of a nude man or woman that is meant
to sexually arouse or has anything to do with sex.  I don't care if Madonna has
sexual desires and acts but I don't want her to share them with the rest of the
world.  It only makes it more  difficult to teach children the proper morals
they need.  The only reason why you both support it is because you are avid
readers of pornographic material, otherwise, how could you compare the pictures
with Penthouse and Playboy?  Shame on you both.> 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.madonna