From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST (was: Re: Best Scenes in movies)
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:31:30 GMT
Organization: Exile Government of Bramming

maus@fid.morgan.com (Malcolm Austin) writes:

>SPOILERS for "Once Upon a Time in the West" in the following:

There sure is. So I'll add a ^L.


>In article <1992Apr3.204346.27038@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:

>>My personal favourite for the "absolutely best scene ever" award is at
>>the start of "Once Upon a Time in the West". It's the scene in which
>>Cheyenne (Jason Robards) and Harmonica (Charles Bronson) meets for the
>>first time. Well, actually it starts out as entertainment scene with
>>Jill (Claudia Cardinale) talking with barkeeper, but as one hears noise
>>of fighting and alarmed horses outside the tavern all interest is
>>focused on the door and the action following Cheyenne entering the
>>room through it. 

>Actually, this scene is not really at the start of the movie.  It occurs
>at least a half-hour, maybe more, into it.  I agree it is a great scene.

That still makes it happen within the first 1/4 of the movie...

>>   This scene encapsulates the philosophy of the Leone westerns, the
>>partition of the world into 3 groups: Real Men (Harmonica, Man with 
>>no name etc), followers (gunmen with short lifespans) and background.
>>Cheyenne knows, at the moment he enters the tavern, who "knows how to
>>play" and who doesn't. Consequently he ignores anyone, even if they
>>are pointing a loaded gun at him, but Harmonica. 

>You lost me here.  

Well, it is one of my own homemade theories so it might be hard to follow.

>Cheyenne does draw this distinction between "players"
>and "non-players", but I saw no clear tripartite division.  

My comment was not, although it looked like it, based on this scene only.
In Leones 3 first westerns it was possible to make this triparte division,
characters like Angel Eyes, Tuco, Colonel Mortimer and The Man With No Name
got involved in a lot of gunfight with lesser characters, gunfights they
never had any trouble with. Consequently they could only be killed by
others of their own kind. The bad guy usually have a group of gunslingers 
with him, these people are supposed to be hard, trained killers and yet
the Real Men (TM) kills them off easily. Normal people however can't do
a thing about them. That is what I meant about this division.

>It is notable,
>however, that just as Cheyenne ignores everyone in the room except Harmonica,
>everyone in the room is also unaffected by his visit.  As soon as he leaves,
>the bartender blithely continues his story about New Orleans, and everyone
                                                                  ^^^^^^^^^
>starts talking again, without missing a beat.  I found that interesting.

Where anybody but the innkeeper talking before Cheyenne? :-). I consider
the Cheyenne/Harmonica part and the innkeeper/Jill part of this scene
as two different scenes, belonging to two different worlds. Later both
Harmonica and Cheyenne gets involved in Jills affairs, but that is only
because of Frank (Henry Fonda).

>Cheyenne's presence is almost like a visitation--he suspends "real life" for
>actions occurring on a higher, sharper plane, 

When elephants talk ants stay quiet.

>and then he leaves, and 
>normal life resumes with no change except the relief that everyone must
>feel that no one has been killed.  Great scene.

>These roles of "player" and "non-player" are not clean-cut, either.  Consider
>Mr. Choo-Choo, who is a player only when in his railroad car, and loses all
>power outside of it.  (Is it accidental that he dies outside of the car?)

Mr. Choo-Choo is a symbol of the new time. It's people like him that will
rule the west in the years to come. In the old west (outside his car) a
man like him wouldn't last long, but in the new west (which hardly can be
called the west) the Real Men (TM) have nothing to do. It's definitely
not accidently that he dies outside his car, and it's an even lesser 
coincidence that he is the one that kills Cheyenne.

>The widow McBain and her late husband also "play" on a different level than
>Cheyenne and Harmonica, more on the level of Mr. Choo-Choo, where dollars
>and land can trump bullets and blood.  And in the end, with the railroad
>coming through like a force of nature, the Real Men seem like an diminished,
>insignificant sideshow.  

>Frank is a pathetic link between these two worlds, trying to 
>transform himself from one to the other, and losing everything.

>>   I have heard that this particular scene have been cut in the 
>>original US version, is that correct? 

>I have never seen this scene cut out, in the theatre, on tape, or on TV.

Good, then I won't have to buy that .45 longslide.
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