From: 89ms1@eng.cam.ac.uk (M. Sablic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: War Against Bosnia: STOP IT!
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:19:41 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

curcija@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Dragan Curcija) writes:

>In article <16760@plains.NoDak.edu> malenovi@plains.NoDak.edu (Nikola V. Malenovic ) writes:
>... 

>>c) (little bit irrelevant) with all respect and simpathy for people dies
>>from shooting in Sarajevo, I have to point out the fact that confuses me.
>>Since the rally that was shoot at, was holding Tito's pictures and singing
>>"Jugoslavija" (I suppose this mean they want to stay within YU, does it
>>not?), I must say that it is either Serbian population wishing to stay
>>within YU (as it is known) or if it was NOT Serbian population, then, who
>>the hack was asking to stay in YU? Muslims? Croats? WHO?


>	Serbia does not want Yugoslavia more than, say, Croatia.  This is
>becoming more and more obvious (I must be honest and say that I was not
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>very clear with that for a long time).  Serbian leadership clearly shown
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that it has no respect for AVNOJ decisions, which is the 
>foundation of the Yugoslavia for which I cared (and still care).
>All they care (including the extremists who are shooting into inocent
>people marching for Yugoslavia and peace) is enlarged Serbia, possibly
>ethnically clean.  As long as Yugoslavia serves them well (as a mask of
>course), they will be blabbing about the continuity, right to stay in the
>country, etc. and then it will dump it the same way Croatian leadership
>dumped it.  The more I think of it, the more I see them in the same light.
>They are both trying to solve some "leftovers" from WWII, and WWI, and Tito
>and Yugoslavia were just in their way for about 50 years, or so. :-(

>Dont be confused, it is all very clear,
>Dragan

Finally!!! It took you  a  while.  Why do  you  bloody  think HDZ  got
elected!  It was clear to 90% of the Croats that YU with Milosevic was
impossible.  Everybody  could see  were things were  going and we were
not so Yugophillic that we could  live in a YU  under his strong hand.
We just could not feel safe in YU with the YNA generals and Milosevic.
The only way it  could have been  saved then was by confederation.  To
most  of us that   was plainly  obvious.  The  HDZ  policy   was quite
reasonable:  cooperation   between    recognised   states   where  the
recognition serves  as a insurance  policy. Why would  we  want to cut
benefitial ties  and escape?  Escape  to where? Now  you may say their
policy was not sincere  but I do  not think so. Even  nationalist need
economies and a large market.

The confederation agreement  was the  esence of AVNOJ. Living together
by agreement and not by overpowering. THAT was  the  YUGOSLAV idea. YU
fell apart because there  were  not any Yugoslavs  left  and I  am not
talking  about  the  YUTEL kind  or    Markovic either. You where  for
something that was not  there and you  saw enemies in the wrong place.
Sure,  there were Croats  who wanted to cut all   ties but TUDJMAN WAS
WILLING TO COMPROMISE FOR THE PRICE OF PEACE.

Tudjman  was more interested in  the appearance of  independence.  ie.
international recognition,  flags, sports teams, diplomatic protocols,
Croatian army  etc.  He does not give  a shit about economic part. His
ego would  be satisfied eihter  way.  Croats wanted  tax collection by
republics and the common stuff only on what ALL republics could agree.
Is that so hard to understand?

CRO  gov't  was still  for  that  agreement  after the declaration  of
SOVREIGNTY.  SOVREIGNTY means that  gov't  won't let  somebody  impose
something on CRO form outside but  a reasonable proposal can always be
looked at. Believe me  some  people in Croatia  tired to   keep things
together but CROATIA COULD NOT compromise on international recognition
since that was our ONLY insurence policy.

All the  people did  in Serbia  was to fall   for Politika propaganda.
Sure  there were wrong things in  Croatia and still  are but Milosevic
always had diplomatic power to get anything  for Serbs in Croatia just
as long it was IN CROATIA. He was never interested.  He and JNA wanted
THE WHOLE thing. That could only mean  WAR. They thought they have the
mighty JNA and Corats  and Slovenes  are  going to run away scared and
they could have THE  WHOLE thing in days.  Of  course you start a  war
that way and it is never so easy  as it  seemed. The lines like 'those
who want to  stay   in YU should  be   allowed to do so'  were  always
bullshit.  The Babic and   Co.   were NOT interested  in a  DEAL  WITH
CORATS.   They ALWAYS wanted to go  above our heads and have something
imposed on Croatia.  SURE it works the other  way too.  Tudjman wanted
to impose as much as possible on  them but Milosevic had  the clout to
get them a good deal if he did not ask  for  TOO MUCH ie.  changing of
borders and the right of Croatia to be a recognised independent state.

THERE IS NO YU WITHOUT  CROATIA AND SLOVENIA.  WHAT'S LEFT IS  GREATER
SERBIA.

YES. Tudjman is a CROATIAN NATIONALIST but even he could not argue that
cutting all links was a good thing so he NEVER did. In the end he had
NO choice as village after village was being bombarded and taken over.
The arguing was done for him by JNA.

BTW, I would just  like to  add  now that I support independent Bosnia
and Hercegovina. It is quite clear that a  lot of Croats  in Bosnia do
so.  Yes, I know that  people in Western Hercegovina  are Croats first
and would  like to annex themselves to  Croatia but thankfully Tudjman
even though he would like to  draw borders etc.   has enough brains to
understand that it would be a very silly thing to support them for two
reasons.   Getting bad  international points is  one.  By   looking at
Croats in Bosnia as a whole a  far  better deal can  be reached if you
keep them in one state (60% are  not in the W.  Hercegovina).   I know
that  that in west  Hercegovina Croats are fighting  and hope to  join
Croatia  but they are not  important because Croats  in rest of Bosnia
are fighting  for Bosnia with  Muslims.  I know  that  from  very good
reports I read in  the Independent.  Their reporters  visited Bosanski
Brod, Mostar, Sarajevo, Bijeljina, Siroki Brijeg/Listica. Only a Croat
in Listica (Hercegovina) thought Paraga was a good guy.  Croats in the
rest of Bosnia know  that crave up  is impossible and stupid and would
never forgive Western Hercegovians if they left them.  As one Croat in
Mostar said:   'When you make   a Tequila  Sunrise you  can't separate
orange juice from Tequila'.

Croats in Sarajevo, Bosanski Brod, Mostar and rest of B&H are fighting
for Bosnia because that is the only country  they have. It is time for
Serbs to see where this is going.  Independent Bosnia is NOT that bad.
It is by far better then war and  please do not talk  to me  about the
treat from 'Fundamentalist' or a  'Muslim State'. The only enemy Serbs
have is the war  for crave up of  Bosnia. This means massive movements
of population, lost homes, broken families and death  on every corner.
And nobody should kid themselves, wars like these never go as planned.

Serbs, Muslims in Bosnia are in a perfect balance for Serbs and Croats
to be able to prevent Muslims to dominate on autonomy issues.

The Arkan's troops and JNA are  destroying  lives of Serbs, Croats and
Muslims in Bosnia by pursuing their current policy.  Milosevic and JNA
generals can stop them and support Independent  Bosnia but they won't.
If you do  not believe me then  believe the US  State  Department  and
their latest statement. Also look  at the  pictures in the latest TIME
magazine.

I am afraid it is too late. It is never going to end.

Regards,

Mladen
--
Mladen Sablic, Pembroke College, Cambridge University, UK.
e_mail: ms145@phx.cam.ac.uk (JANET: ms145@uk.ac.cam.phx)
        89ms1@eng.cam.ac.uk (JANET: 89ms1@uk.ac.cam.eng) (Rx only)
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