HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Subject: Re: need help with stubborn horse
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:26:13 GMT


>	Sarah, these are classic symptoms of a sore back!!!  99% of the
[....]  (right now I am guessing your horse turns
> like a truck, pivoting on the hind foot rather than properly bending
> through the middle).
>				Tracy and everybody

 I'm willing to bet he turns on his front end and his hind end swings out
 behind him. These are the classic symptoms of a horse on his front end!!!

 In general, I disagree with the assumption that this horse
 has a sore back (without disregarding that possibility completely). The
 fact that he runs into the canter from the trot, his slow trot is easier to
 sit, he has a bone jarring working trot,etc, my immediate response is to 
 say he is NOT BALANCED. 

 It is difficult to say from what you have told us, but let me suggest a few
 exercises to see if this is indeed the problem. Working on a LOOSE rein 
 (think of your horse as a western cow pony), can you play with the horse's
 balance? Try some short turns, no larger than say about 5m. (working at the
 canter, by the way) Can you stop on a dime? One of my favorite exercises
 working with a young horse on balance is to work up and down a line, doing 
 roll backs at each end (taking the western analogy a little further) You 
 can use a few visual aids to make it more fun if need be.
 All of this is done on a loose rein. And always remember he should be bent
 into the turn and turn from behind. If his tail end is swinging out of the
 turn, he's turning from the front, not from behind. If you cannot do these
 exercises, because the horse has never been taught how to work from behind,
 there are plenty of exercises that can teach a horse what you're asking for.
 We can get into that later.

 If you cannot set the horse up for the turn with a half
 halt from your seat, then what you need to work on is being able to have
 the balance of your horse in hand. If a horse is not balanced, it is a
 common trick to hollow the back and take short strides, which are of course
 hard to sit. This effect is minimized at a slower trot, but it is still
 there. 
 
 Just as a guess, I'd say your horse
 Goes around with his nose in the air (if this has been going on for a while, 
 		you've got a martingale on him) 
 His tail probably swishes 
 In a big working trot, he probably forges.

 Having your horse's balance in hand will *eliminate* these problems, 
 not just deal with them. It is pointless to talk about bending and
 engagement if the horse is on his front end.

 Finally, learning to play with your horse's balance will take time. Time
 for you and for the horse. This is training for the shows a year or two
 (or ten) from now, not the show next month.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee Raines)
Subject: Re: Tennesee Walkers/Gaited Horses
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:44:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.234931.6752@athena.mit.edu>, aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
|> I was wondering what people's opinions on gaited horses might be,
|> particularly Tennesee Walkers.  I have a rather bouncy (at the trot)
|> half Arab and have been struck by the idea that "Gee - wouldn't it be
|> great to have TWO horses?!  And one of them smoothsmoothsmooth...sigh"
|> There are two TW's at the stable where my horse is and one of them
|> isn't that fabulous to ride, she isn't always consistant in her smoothness
|> but this other one is supposed to be like the first walker on her
|> good days, and that is very nice.  And what about Paso Finos/Peruvian
|> Pasos?  Are they outrageously expensive?  What might one expect to pay
|> for a well mannered 5-12 yr old registered Tennesee Walker in the N.E.
|> area?  Do they have any special shoeing considerations?
|> 
|> Any advice or ideas welcomed!
|> 
|> Karen Karlsson
|> --
|> ----
|> Karen Karlsson on Joakim Karlsson's account
|> aviator@athena.mit.edu
|> ----

Sorry, don't have much experience with gaited horses, but I have a 
question to folks who may answer this post.  My very first
horse (a 15h, dun pinto by the name of Tarzan) single-footed.  (They told
me this when they delivered him.)  I was about eight or nine years old, 
and didn't know the right questions to ask (like what breed he was).  
He was extremely comfortable at all gaits, but I'm not sure what those gaits 
were or what he was.  So, more questions to you gaited folks out there:  
would you describe single-foot, its relationship (or nonrelationship) to rack?, 
and what breeds of horse do this?  Was he possibly a Tennesse Walker?  

Mary Lee Raines
Ravenswood Appaloosas
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lmasterm@cs.ulowell.edu (Lisa Masterman)
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Originator: lmasterm@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:21:02 GMT


In article <14166@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) writes:

|> As for stories about riding without a girth, when I first started
|> taking riding lessons I rode Western.  I was riding a Saddlebred
|> that was pretty thin, and apparently the horse had blown up
|> when girthed and the instructor didn't notice until the end
|> of our one hour long trail ride lesson at 3 gaits.  The girth
|> was hanging several inches below the horses belly!  That was
|> the point when she told me it was time for me to learn to ride
|> English, because if my balance was that good, she had nothing
|> more she could teach me!  So, perhaps if not for that event
|> when I was a kid, I would never have discovered the joys of
|> riding English and jumping!  Anyway, it taught me to check my
|> girth after getting on!
|> 
|> Sarah Pallas 

Gee...  you're lucky.  The day *I* learned my lesson about checking the
girth was the day the horse I was riding took to a bucking fit while
galloping across a field, and my weight shifted into one stirrup, flipping
the saddle around to her stomach.  I had a very up-close and personal
conversation with the ground and partially dislocated my left shoulder.
Ouch.   *sheepish grin*

--lisa
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: More on first horse
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:41:14 EST
Organization: Wright State University 


I just want to add one more thing to the 'first horse' discussion.  Please
don't EVER get a young horse for a first horse.  I've seen very few horses
under the age of ten that make good first horses.  It takes maturity and age
for a horse to get to the child safe stage.  Our current 'child' horse is
Tar, aged gelding, somewhere over twenty, possibly pushing thirty.  He 
is ridden and shown by three girls, has very patiently put up with having
all three of them groom him, bathe him, lead him around, take turns riding
and even put up with having his teeth brushed.  (One of them thought they
were too yellow!)  This is the ideal horse for anyone to learn on.  Tar has
been showing so long that he knows the ring commands and when the announcer
says Trot!, he trots, no matter whether his rider has cued him or not.  


Sue
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron)
Subject: Re: Exercises
Organization: Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN. Campus
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 13:52:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.135030.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi>, happonen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
|> Any ideas to make my daily basic exercises more interesting?
|> 
|> I need good ideas to keep intrest up and my horse happy.
|> Horse is 5 years old and we already have one jump lesson in a week.
|> 

Keep things varied, take your horse out on trails and practice
dressage there (side pass down the side street etc), free lunge
occasionally, ride bareback or try guide the horse with just
a lead rope -- just don't get into the habit of going into the
ring, walk, trot, canter to the right, to the left, a few circles
and back to the stable. Riding should be fun, make it a game for 
you and the horse.

-- 
--Bruce

"Truth is ultimately a philosophical concept,...,
 and standards of truth are adequate for practical
 purposes if they are substantially more reliable 
 then the system undergoing evaluation"
				C. E. Metz
---------------------------------------------------
bmc@mayo.edu	(507) 284-3288	fax: (507) 284-9623
Mayo Foundation, 200 1st St SW,	Rochester MN 55905
---------------------------------------------------
#include <std/disclaimer>             ARS -- WD9CKW
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lmasterm@cs.ulowell.edu (Lisa Masterman)
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Originator: lmasterm@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:15:16 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.180634.3630@u.washington.edu>, cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand) writes:

|> >>but that's another long story).  During our efforts to help the horse
|> >>theere was a lesson going on in the arena and the student was riding the
|> >>horse (hunt seat) without a girth.  Is this a normal teaching practice?

|> >Are you serious? Did she die or what? I am utterly amazed.

|> Nope I've had instructors do this before.  It's really not as tough as
|> it sounds.  If you have one of those old time TBs with the huge
|> withers, it takes an act of congress to move the saddle. Of course, if
|> you are riding a round-backed Arab or QH it might be a bit more
|> difficult :^). 
  (stuff deleted)
|> Anyone else have to do this?

I've never done that one, but I've heard of people doing the exercise. 
Something similar I did once upon a time involved riding about with one's
knees touching over the whithers.  Talk about an exercise in balance!
Trotting was...  interesting.

--lisa
 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ktracy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karin L Tracy)
Subject: Re: Miltons breeding - grading/registration,etc - a bit long!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.205025.5949@ctr.columbia.edu> lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims) writes:
>How do the warmblood registries/stud books keep the qualification of
>horses de-politicized?
>
>There is (and has been for a long time) a great controversy raging
>in the Morgan breed over the horses that are being pinned grand
>champion in in-hand classes.  Many of these horses, though very
>pretty and very animated, have severe conformation flaws that seem
>to be ignored by the judges.  It has gotten so bad that people whose
>horses are not of the most popular lines (mostly Waseeka's Nocturn via
>Waseeka's In Command) don't even bother exhibiting in-hand anymore.
>The American Morgan Horse Association's board of directors has been
>holding regional forums to discuss the issue.  The forums havn't been
>getting too far for a variety of reasons, mostly because people can't
>come up with concrete, workable suggestions to change the system.
>
>I gather that other breeds, including Arabs and Quarter Horses, have
>similar problems.
>
>I have been mightily impressed with the basic good conformation of
>the warmbloods I have seen on TV.  Who assess these horses?  How does
>the system maintain its integrity?  (Does it?)
>
>
>Linda Merims
>
As a Morgan owner who breeds, trains, and shows, I found your comments
about the Morgan in-hand classes right on the mark, unfortunately.  I
have shown very little in-hand this year except under Saddlebred judges.
Why Saddlebred judges?  Because they seem to be 'non-political', at 
least where Morgans are concerned.  Generally, they have an 'r' rating
in Morgans, and seem to pick Morgans who look like Morgans, not
Saddlebreds, and do not like 'dippy' backs and front legs coming from
'one hole'.  My line-bred Pecos/Orcland Leader horses do well, whereas
my Noble Command mare (Waseeka's in Command/Nocture) does well under
Morgan judges.  She's beautiful, but can't hold a candle to the others
when it comes to performance, and it's her conformation.  Typical of
the bloodline.  She always seems to place well, but it's an effort to
hold her together, while the others are naturally balanced and a joy
to ride.  I did show halter at the State Fair (futurity) and my 2 yr.
old 14.3 colt took 2nd to a 16.1 Command-bred colt, gingered, set tail
and all the rest.  The explanation one gets is that that's what the
buyers want,  at least buyers of show horses.  As long as the judges
are also trainers, it won't change, but popular bloodlines come and go
as lines get too inbred and unsound.  There are many small breeders who
march to their own drummer, and produce sound, typey, beautiful Morgans.
We just don't advertise in the MORGAN HORSE!  
                               Karin Tracy
From: jtn@ADS.COM (John T. Nelson)
Subject: misc.fitness
Organization: Guest of Booz, Allen & Hamilton, Inc./Advanced Decision Systems
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:44:13 GMT

Are there mailing list forms for this newsgroup?  For example,
rec.music.synth is gatewayed to a mailing list called "Synth-L".
I'm wondering if this group has a similar mechanism for those of us
who do not receive the groups on our machines.

- Hacker
--
Dark Hacker				hacker@black-silicon.mclean.va.us

"I am the very instantiation of object oriented evil!"
From: judy@valinor.mythical.com (Judy Labovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: olympic vcr tapes
Keywords: olympic, tapes
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 22:23:05 CDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: (What? Organized??) - Mythical Computer Systems

Here it finally is!!  I sent the tapes to the first person on the list
Thursday Sept 2.  Here is the list of people that the tapes will be moving
through (ugh, what a poorly constructed sentence).  As of now, there is
only one set of tapes making the rounds.  Another set will not be
available until the end of September / begining of October, so take care
of them.  Instructions and a complete mailing list are contained in the
box with the tapes.

Dave Dabay		 uunet!ruacad.ac.runet.edu!ddabay
Patty Howell		 uunet!alpha.larc.nasa.gov!patty
Richard Simon		 rich@brb.nci.nih.gov
Sharon A. Baker 	 uunet!chesapeake.ads.com!sbaker
Jean Keller		 jkeller@ishtar.med.jhu.edu
Stanley Krystek 	 krystek@bms.com
Margaret Roggie 	 uunet!CCVM.sunysb.edu!MROGGIE
Noelle Givler		 ngivler@bbn.com
Diane J Nakashian	 dianen@world.std.com
Michelle Spencer	 mspencer@cvbnet.prime.com
Petra Turowski		 uunet!amherst.edu!PNTUROWSKI
Robin Carrier		 uunet!DPW.COM!carrier
Ruth Ann Schmidt	 uunet!andrew.cmu.edu!rs57+
Marty Marlatt		 marty-m@cis.ohio-state.edu
George Edgington	 uunet!ncrsmg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM!gedgingt
Susan Richardson	 uunet!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!glink
Lyn Cole		 m.o.cole@att.com
Mary Matejka		 uunet!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!marym
Angie Merritt		 amerritt@dante.nmsu.edu
Teresa Bippert-Plymate	 uunet!as.arizona.edu!teresa
Adrienne Regard 	 uunet!hpsdde.sdd.hp.com!regard
Diane Reichard		 uunet!nb.rockwell.com!reichard
Ellen Collins		 jcollins@hypatia.usc.edu
Jim Ferris		 uunet!EBay.Sun.COM!Jim.Ferris
Diane M. Kimball	 6175190@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Carole Kever		 6357940@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
Kathy Webster Ruiz	 uunet!Corp.Sun.COM!Kathy.Webster
Caroline Smrstik	 cap@netcom.com
Coni Britten		 uunet!peri.gvg.tek.com!conib
Johanna Turner		 turner@reed.edu
Allan Broadbent 	 ajb@saylor.mn.org

and finally back to me ...
Judith Labovitz 	 judy@valinor.mythical.com

Hope you folks enjoy!!

Judy

        
   Judith A Labovitz               judy@valinor.mythical.com
                                   uunet!valinor!judy
            I bark, therefore I am.    ---- Rene Descarte's dog.        
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: quarter sheets
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:00:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.122303.16950@pbs.org>,
mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser) writes:
>
>Does anyone out there use a Quarter Sheet for winter/cold weather riding?
>
WHOOPS!

On that last post, I meant "fold the bottom FRONT corners up in the
last paragraph" !!

Sorry!

=gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Horses in Covington Cross
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:53:23 GMT


Greetings from a newsgroup traveller!

Some of us on a couple of news groups are discussing the errors to be
found in the new television show: Covington Cross, set in 1300's
England.

We were griping about this or that of a historical nature, but a few
said that the horses were very good approximations of the war horses of
the times. The show had several clysdale (sp) cross-breeds, I think. 

Another argument was that we only saw the historical errors because we
knew enough to look for them, or to recognise them. But we saw non (few)
with the horses. 

My question is this: Were the horses used accurate, close or way off the
mark? What about their riding skills? Did you find the show believeable?

Thank-you for my little question,
you may now resume normal discussions,

Andrew Smith
amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Miltons breeding - grading/registration,etc - a bit long!
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:39:35 GMT
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA

/ hpspdla:rec.equestrian / C20211@prime-a.plymouth.ac.uk (John Horne) /  6:40 am  Aug 26, 1992 /

    Re: Grading

John wrote:

>    Grading is where the stallion and/or mare is presented before judges so
>    that he/she may be entered into the stud books. 
     This is usually jugding the conformation and gaits of the horse,
     with sometimes free jumping for the stallions.

>    My understanding of it though is this. Registration is (simply?)
>    registering the foal with the relevant breed society when it is born. The
>    parents must be registered (or at least the sire I think). For the

     At least for German warmblood registries, the  missing link here is that
     BOTH the mare and the stallion must be entered into the STUD books,
     not merely registerd,  before the foal can be registered.

     A few of the other warmblood registries allow registration without
     grading/inspection, usually for the mares.
     In the U.S. the Dutch have an auxilary foalbook where offspring of
     Dutch registered but not approved/graded horses can be registered, but even
     then a series of rules have to be met. The Swedish will register 
     offspring of an approved Swedish stallion and mares of certain 
     recognized registries without inspecting the mares. The American 
     Trakehner Association used to not require mare inspections, but they 
     will be mandatory (for Trakehner mares) starting next year.

     The basic idea behind all of this is to weed out horses that are
     not of high enough quality to be breeding stock and not allow their
     offspring to be registered. It also allows, as John pointed out,
     the infusion of outside blood into the breed on a regular basis.

     Well, hope this helps. Is it as clear as mud now?

Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: schlumpf@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu ()
Subject: Re: Horses in Covington Cross
Reply-To: schlumpf@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu ()
Organization: Materials Research Lab
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:03:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.195323.17144@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>,
amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith) writes:
|> My question is this: Were the horses used accurate, close or way off
|> the
|> mark? What about their riding skills? Did you find the show
|> believeable?

Well, my $0.02 worth

I didn't watch the show too closely as I was busy with other things, but 
as a recently graduated Medieval Civilization student who focused on
the horses more than anything else, I was impressed. In fact, when 
horses came on the screen I pointed and screamed "Look, Peter (that's
my hubby), they've actually got the right kind of horses!"  From what
I saw, and again, I wasn't watching too closely, I saw large draft mixes
which looked like they had more draft than anything in them and this is
indeed what was used with that type of armor (I'm not good on dates).
As the armor got heavier, the horses had to get heavier and stronger
to support all that weight. They weren't wearing full plate armor,
were they? But I found it very believeable that those horses could
carry the weight that they were supposed to be carrying.  So, I'd
say, for the most part they were accurate in their horses, unlike
Excalibur, but that's another topic. :-) 

As far as riding skills...I dunno.  What was wrong with it? I mean, 
knights were highly trained horsemen. And yes, the show seemed
believeable. The castle and the horses seemed from that time period...
didn't pay too close of attention to the armor. Of course, don't take my 
word for granted, I could be wrong!

(and if anyone wants a full report on the development of armor and
horses  in the Middle Ages from the time of the stirrup on, I have a 
nice long LaTeX paper of it sitting in my directory here....:-) )

Kay Schlumpf & Crew   
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: what I take while carting
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:19:19 GMT

I am at the point of really wanting a cart with solid wheels....
Here is the list of what I carry when we cart into towm (2 miles)
for Pizza or Ice Cream>

Halter and leadrope (for tying up outside Pizza parlor and when
    fixing flats
bucket with a little grain. (treat for pony then filled with water
    when we stop
Bicycle pump (for fixing flats)
Playmate cooler with the following:
  Adjustable wrench for removing wheel lug nuts
  Tire irons
  2-3 spare tubes and patch kit
  warm clothes and extra diaper for 2 year old
Cooler is also great for kids to prop feet on as my seat is hi

Somehow I need to figure out why I am getting so many flats on this
one wheel.  Inside looks clean, etc.  I am at the point that I can
remove the wheel and change the tube in under 5 minutes.

My pony also has special pads under her shoes to absorb shock from
the pavement.  If I can get this darn wheel problem fixed I hope to
pick my daughter     up from Kindergarden this fall in the cart
several times a month.

I have a sort of stange sort of cart-the whole seat unit unbolts and
I have a sulky seat you can attatch.  The frame has stirrups.  If I
get the nerve, someday I will convert it to a racing sulky and drive
our donkey in a parade!  It is a horse-size cart.

Anyway, now I am drooling over wooden wheel carts, Irish jaunting
carts, etc.

Driving is a blast except for all the flats!

Karen
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: vls@cube.handheld.com (Vern Stant)
Subject: Cheap, Safe Training cart?
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:43:07 GMT

I have started training George, my QH gelding, to drive. I bought a nylon  
harness and, hopefully, we will be to the point of adding a cart before winter  
sets in. I am looking for something safe, that I can get out of if things go  
wrong. Cheap would be good because I suspect that I will want something nicer  
after George is trained. Any suggestions?

Vern & George (7 yr QH g) & Hope (4 yr TB mare/dog food)

--
Vern Stant              | The opinions expressed herein are
Hand Held Products, Inc.| not necessarily those of Hand 
804.784.3090 voice      | Held Products, Inc., and may not 
804.784.3147 FAX        | even be mine. Use at your own risk
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian