From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Bazooka for sale!
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:31:04 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns

As quoted from <1k55gfINNq2@zikzak.apana.org.au> by speednut@zikzak.apana.org.au (Mark Jose):

> >As for your Hitler comment, that's nonsensical at best.  Are you saying that
> >the Jews were better off for having died in misery WITHOUT much of a fight?
> >I think logic and history would indicate that FEWER of them would have died
> >had they been able to put up a fight to enable more of the rest to survive.
> 
> Don't be silly. Read what I said! Putting faith in your government will no
> more cause your demise than not doing so by arming yo
> that even if the Jews were fully armed, they would still not have been
> able to withstand the German assault.

It caused THEIR demise.  They had faith that their government would not do
that which it DID.  Now they are DEAD.  AGAIN, you think it better that they
died without a fight?  

> Whether your "logic and history" can prove they may have survived is very
> dubious. Unless well trained I can't see how they could possibly fight off
> battle hardened soldiers and tanks. They may have forestalled the war, but
> not stopped it. Whether the Jews being armed would have stopped them
> going to the gas chambers, cannot be substantiated. It may have resulted
> in the German airforce bombing the "crap" out of towns rather than
> collecting the occupants.
> 
They seemed to do quite well in the Warsaw ghetto with a few pistols.  The
Jews of Germany didn't live in "Jewish cities".  They lived alongside 
Gentiles.  I doubt somehow that the Luftwaffe would have bombed Berlin and
Munich, killing Jews and Gentiles alike.
> 
> I do not in any way condone the genocide that occurred in WW11.
> 
But you condone the means by which it was possible.  Don't you see the
difference?

> >> All those Iraqis sitting like ducks in a shooting gallery in their
> >> sand bunkers were all armed but were killed just the same.
> >>
> >All those Iraqis SURRENDERED in large part.  If we'd been like the nazis,
> >they wouldn't have gone home again the way they did.
> 
> And what of the 200,000 that died? Did they not believe that there
> government would support them? Did they not put their trust in their
> weapons to stop them being killed? Yes. What good did it do them when
> the "invading power" has better weaponry. I am sure if the US had
> wanted to eradicate the Iraqis, they could have done so whether the
> Iraqis had guns or not. See my point?
> 
I suppose that if they had FOUGHT, they might have done much better.  Let's
be honest.  Even the Cuban reservist combat engineers on Grenada did better.
In essence the Iraqis took a dive.  The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto DIDN'T and
it scared hell out of the SS.  Don't assume that giving a coward a gun will
make him brave.  Haven't you heard the joke, "100,000 Iraqi AKMs for sale, 
never fired, dropped only once."?

> >The danger of tyranny exists EVERYWHERE, at least everywhere there are
> >PEOPLE.  To that extent, it's a UNIVERSAL problem.
> 
> I beg to differ.
> 
I invite you to provide counter evidence.


-- 
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"Read my lips, no new Haitians.  Ack!" - Bill the Prez
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Christopher Morton