HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:06:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1h1eooINNkv3@aludra.usc.edu> jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang) writes:

>If an SC tried to close into me while I was AS, i would det ALL, his torps, 
>and then fire my own, MY torps do MORE damage; MY torps go just as fast;
>We'll both eat torps, BUT HE will die, and not me.  

First of all, it depends on what the objective is...  One time recently
when I was chasing a CA runner-scum, I got him into third space.  It was
actually quite easy to kill him in a scout then.  I did what any clued
player does when chasing runner-scums...
A) Force him away from his teammates
B) Gradually close with him.  (The scout was good for this)
C) Get him to fire torps (do this by getting close)
D) Dodge the torps
E) Repeat C and D until he's out of fuel
F) Kill him - (I used phaser fire - found it quite humorous that my scout
   killed a running CA solely by phaser fire)

Note: this is just one isolated instance of me against only a semi-clued
 person.  I don't try to say that anybody could do this against anybody
 else.  Although, accomplishing part A is actually the hardest part of
 the whole thing.

>SSSOOO, IF the SC is the best dogfighting ship in this netrek galaxy...
>Why can't it take out an AS by dogfighting it????

Follow the thread, dude.  The debate was that a SC is better than a DD.
As far as dogfighting goes, they are both kinda useless ships.

>Just a thought in this endless thread.  

>This is why I insist a) SCOUTS probably aren't best Dogfighters. b) 
>the best Dogfighting ship is the ship you fight best in. 

You're right about (a) - BB's are the best dogfighters
You're wrong about (b) - BB's are the best dogfighters

Brian
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 1993 20:15:23 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<103066@netnews.upenn.edu>

>>Perhaps the cloaker is an AS.  If you start off around 4000 fuel, and
>>phaser around 30 points I don't think you will get it down to warp 1. 
>>Of course you probably can get some help, but without any I don't think
>>your scout will succeed.  If you phaser lock a large ship with a SC, and
>>you have no help available, don't they usually uncloak anyway?
>
>But with an AS, I can still close in on you and start doing 60-70 point
>phaser blasts.  And, if I feel inspired, I can fire torps directly on you,
>where detting does you little good.
>
>Do they uncloak?  Usually not.  Unless they have loads of fuel, it does
>little good.  If they fire, I dodge and they waste fuel.  If they don't
>fire, then I'm back a little farther from the enemy than I hoped, but
>not far enough that I can't still close in on him.

I suppose you just run up to CA and do the same thing.  When they fire,
you dodge, and they waste their fuel.

My idea was that if you are further away the AS could uncloak and
pressor, pause, cloak.  If you are close use the phaser.  I really did
not mean uncloak to burn the fuel firing torps.

I believe there is a misconception that the AS is poor at close range
phaser battles.  If a CA and AS get in a short range (CA is firing for
60 or more points per shot) phaser battle, they will mutual.  At the
range of 82 to 99 points, the AS kills the CA in 3 shots, at which time
the CA blows up, presumably finishing the AS.

>Brian


Erik
---=
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ramage@ece.scarolina.edu (Dan Ramage)
Subject: fonts and lack there of
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Distribution: rec.games.netrek
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:31:11 GMT

I got a clinet to test out one of the servers.  When I execute the file it says
it can't find 6x10 font.  I got the source, compiled it and had the same trouble.
I saw the 6x10 font files with the code and was wondering if there is a place
the files should go other than where they are, which is in the same dir as the
x11netrek executable.  I went into the code and modified it to look for 8x16
but it couldn't find that either, and I know that works as I use it when I run
xterms.   I am using a dec3100.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dan
ramage@charlie.ece.scarolina.edu
From: chris@inconel.uucp (Christian)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Bronco dB
Date: 1 Jan 93 04:37:43 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <1992Dec31.150027.754@uoft02.utoledo.edu> frankc@.cse.utoledo.edu writes:
>Not a bad idea to beta test your server with the Bronco database, but once it gets
>going satisfactorily, your best bet is to blank the 'base and start fresh.  A couple
>of established servers did that the end of summer... worked out pretty well, one
>actually has one (possibly more) admirals...  You've probably heard of it,
>netrek.ulowell.edu...

Yup... played there a long time ago. Hope I can do the same...

>If not, you're bound to end up with losers like chi... admiral chi in most places
>it seems... leeches like this tend to creep out of the older databases and try
>to dominate the other players 'under' them.  Chi for example will use language
>UNHEARD of on most servers, some will do an automatic ban on these types when the 
>language starts... oh-well, up to you... and GOOD LUCK!  Glad to see another
>server coming along... RSA or standard?

inconel is RSA (embrace the new ways, right??), other than that, its vanila bronco.

Now about wiping the dB, yeah, that might be the way to go eventually. The
thing is, I need players! I have yet to see a full game. Being this is break
is probably the major problem, but getting people off of their comfy seats
of power and to start new characters on an unknown server is not gonna be easy.
(Take me, I'm on bronco all the time, sometimes on rwd4, when I'm silly I'm on
servers with mods from hell. But its usually bronco.)

>                              newbie kid
>.signature  <=- wow... neat, eh?

-Chris

PS. Thats a damn nice .sig there, I must say.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: isae@iastate.edu (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Subject: Re: Bronco user dB
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: world 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:35:24 GMT

In <1992Dec29.132939.4211@doug.cae.wisc.edu> chris@castlab.uucp (Christian) writes:

>In article <isae.725617718@pv6640.vincent.iastate.edu> isae@iastate.edu (Gadjah Mada) writes:
>>In <1992Dec28.102103.1043@doug.cae.wisc.edu> chris@castlab.uucp (Christian) writes:
>>
>>>Howdy ho to the netrek world.
>>
>>>I guess this question goes the Bronco God, but I thought I'd post here
>>>anyway....
>>
>>I am not the Bronco God, but I just wanna say..
>>
>>>Can I get the bronco user dB? 
>>
>>How about calvin database? 

>Ron, is you the calvin God? Wow, my 1st contact with another supreme being... ;)

Yea, I am.. :) NOT.  :-)
I am not, really. I believe the gods are Dan King (dank@usc.edu)
and Ted Hadley (hadley@cad.ics.uci.edu)
Try sending them a polite e-mail. :-)

>Hm, that is indeed a possibility. The question is, if I used your dB, would
>I then need be running your mods? I'm just a plain bronco sight right now...
>Lemme know what you think...

I think you don't necessarily have to run calvin's mods. 
Anyway, is calvin pretty much non-vanilla? I don't think so.
As for Bronco Gods, you can get on bronco and read the MOTD.
It's George and Rob.

>-Chris

-Rony
 isae@IASTATE.EDU
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:23:11 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <gfBy7V200VB4M5DF0g@andrew.cmu.edu> el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Lauer) writes:
[...]
>>       Unless you started off low in fuel, you aren't going to run out
>>of fuel.  And if you do run out, the guy is doing warp 1, and you just
>>have to wait for enough fuel regen to fire a torp.

>Perhaps the cloaker is an AS.  If you start off around 4000 fuel, and
>phaser around 30 points I don't think you will get it down to warp 1. 
>Of course you probably can get some help, but without any I don't think
>your scout will succeed.

An AS took a fuel planet under my SC last Friday.  I was out of fuel, but
orbiting the planet; the (undamaged) AS walked in and took it (it was an
AGRI too).  I just couldn't do enough damage fast enough to stop him.  With
the AS recovery rate, I'd have to put 9 torps into him with his shields down
in the space of a few seconds to get the kill.  His shields could absorb
another 3.

SC fuel recovery rate is 16 per 1/10th second * 8 for being on a fuel planet,
so I was getting 128 units per 1/10th second.  Torps cost 175, phasers cost
525, which means in theory I should've had enough for 7 torps per second.
Beats me if I know what the deal was; best guess is I got lagged and couldn't
get the full load of torps off.

Without the fuel planet, that's 160 units per second, which is less than one
torp.  I don't see one being an effective defender.

>you have no help available, don't they usually uncloak anyway?
>
>
>
>
>Erik
>---=


-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hosers roasting on an open fire...
Date: 22 Dec 92 06:24:31 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

In article 213024@cs.bham.ac.uk, aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams) writes:
> again, so the code was disabled, (no-one t-mode scummed at the time).
> What the code should do is tell the new person logging in that someone
> is already playing and allow them to eject the original.
> 
> Any ideas/code on this?
> 
> Andy.
> 

I like that idea I seem to rember it a while back.... Ah yes I posted it, but my
grammer was so bad I bet no one understood it!


			James
Commodore wibble
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:26:31 GMT

mdm@pun.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
>>"Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>Will you fight Warsong?  If you beat him I will be convinced...
>>
>
>        Sure!  I am a bit out of practice but given my recent attitude
>I should be able to handle a measly scout, right? ;-)

Exsqueeze me?  When did I volunteer to go blow up hapless losers who happen
to fly DD's too much?

I have already offered my analysis of the SC vs DD encounter, and heard no
disagreement from the net.  (This, in itself, is a small miracle... ;)

I have no intention of proving anything.  I *want* you to fly a DD.  I *want*
everyone who is not on TWNN to fly DD's all the time, especially during INL
games.  Since the DD is so much better, I want them to SC-bomb in DD's.  I
want them to escort in DD's.  I want them to space-control in DD's.  Do you
get the picture?

I absolutely refuse to consider facing anyone with the purpose of discouraging
all those little creeps who fly DD's all the time.  If they got real ships
and banded together, they might be dangerous.  I want losers to play me in
INL games planet-taking in DD's.  And especially, I want them to face me in
my scout without fear.  I *really* *really* want a DD to try to clear me off
a planet to drop his 5 armies.  And I want a DD to try to run past me with 5
armies, repeatedly.

I will add one last note:
	Can you name *1* DD pilot who can wreke nearly as much damage in nearly
as many situations as I can in my scout?  Sure, the DD is neat for planet-
taking, but what about the rest of the game?

	The problem with the DD is *not* that it is *worse* than a scout.
	The problem with the DD is that it is not sufficiantly *better* than
a scout, to pay for the missing 3 warps.

--Warsong

(P.S.: What I said about that 'please play DD's' I really meant.  You know that
you are right.  You know what ship to fly.  All these admirals are wrong.  So
go ahead - keep playing 'em.  I need the DI.)
From: jh@heel.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jack Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: problem getting client to run
Date: 29 Dec 1992 08:25:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: heel.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <Bzzrsu.M7C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:
>I type:
>udp_client.sun4 -h 128.95.1.58 -p 2592
>and I get:
>ld.so: libX11.so.4: not found
>
>Obviously this is some Xwindows thing... Unfortunately I know
>nothing about Xwindows things. Were running OpenWindows on this
>machine, thats about all I can say.

This is because the binary is trying to dynamically load the X library,
and your machine is not set up the conventional way, so netrek cannot
find the library.

ftp the static versions instead. They are compiled with the library linked.

-Gaia

>-Dan


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: Coaches (again).
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:56:41 GMT

Some INL teams already have kibitzers who do just this.  It should be
added, so that at-large teams aren't at a disadvantage in this regard.

-Ensign Pac-man
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: xtrek biff
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:35:19 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

I here there is an xtrek biff where do I get it from?


			James.

Commodore wibble.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: doorstop for clue server
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:55:27 GMT

Forget about bronco, doorstop is the clue server now.  At least you
know that everybody there can read and write messages.  It's my
favorite server, and I encourage all good players to play there.  In
fact I encourage everybody to play there, regardless of skill level;
the more the merrier!  Just bring your open-minded and cooperative
attitudes, and don't be disappointed if the games aren't as clueful or
well-balanced as you might wish.

Over the holidays we're lucky to get a full game anywhere, so all
bets are off.  But I'll try to connect to doorstop at 3pm EST this
weekend (both Saturday and Sunday), so we can try to get good pickup
games going then.

  -- Red Shirt  (no white beard, sorry)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
	<1gul34INN36t@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
	<lyodav.724899627@vincent2.iastate.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:48:15 GMT


Some random DD player writes :

>   As for DDs being useless in general, I disagree. I played DDs
> exclusively in INL games, and I always had:

> 1) The most DI on my team (always above 8.00)
> 2) A ratio above 1.00 (about 10 carriers created, 120 kills)
> 3) 3rd highest planets bombed after the 2 SC bombers
> 4) 3rd highest armies ogged after the 2 oggers
> 5) Somewhere in the top 3 for planets taken/destroyed

     This is more of a comment about the quality of your team, not your
personal play.

>   If this is useless, I'd like to see what useful players do. Contrary to 
>popular belief, the DD is the most versatile ship.

     Ah.. yeah, whatever.

>   Ogging   Bombing   Planets
>1) CA       SC        DD
>2) DD       DD        AS
>3) SC       AS        SC

     Well, your chart seems reasonable, though I'd fault it in a couple of
areas.

    Ogging   Bombing   Planets
1)  CA       SC        SC
2)  SC       DD        CA
3)  DD       AS        AS

>   The CA only appears once in the above chart...duh, guys, why do you
> play them? Scouts are possibly as useful as DDs, but certainly CAs
> aren't. The above chart is arguable, but in any case the CA is not one of
> the top 3 bombing or planet taking ships.

     We play them because we excel in them.  They are a powerful, yet
versatile ship.  They have the staying power to crush someone at the front
line, and still have enough fight to pick up armies off a nearby planet and
drop them.  CA planet taking is an art, son.  You don't fly back to your
system to repair and pick up armies.  Whenever you see a pop on one of your
planets at the border, you fly to position yourself between it and the
enemy, crush anyone that comes near, then pick up and dash for the nearest
planet.  I've finished off many an LPS by picking up from an enemy core
world and limping to their home planet.

     DD planet taking, IMHO, only occurs with regularity in clueless games.
DD's are too slow and fragile to go up against oggers, whether they're
scouts or cruisers.  And as for ogging, DD's are just barely too big to be
good oggers, because if you live through an ogg, you have no fuel and are
crippled.  After a CA ogg, I almost always have enough fuel and damage to
grab the nearest enemy and take them with me.  The bombing scale I left the
same.  Though again, I feel much happier bombing in a CA than a DD. :)

     'Nuff said.  Oh, and ignore the comments about 'art' and 'versatile'.
CA's are just bruisers that rule the netrek galaxy with brute force.
Finesse is for weaklings.

     Jamie / FillInTheBlank
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: chris@castlab.uucp (Christian)
Subject: Re: Bronco user dB
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Distribution: world 
Date: 29 Dec 92 13:29:39 CST

In article <isae.725617718@pv6640.vincent.iastate.edu> isae@iastate.edu (Gadjah Mada) writes:
>In <1992Dec28.102103.1043@doug.cae.wisc.edu> chris@castlab.uucp (Christian) writes:
>
>>Howdy ho to the netrek world.
>
>>I guess this question goes the Bronco God, but I thought I'd post here
>>anyway....
>
>I am not the Bronco God, but I just wanna say..
>
>>Can I get the bronco user dB? 
>
>How about calvin database? 

Ron, is you the calvin God? Wow, my 1st contact with another supreme being... ;)

Hm, that is indeed a possibility. The question is, if I used your dB, would
I then need be running your mods? I'm just a plain bronco sight right now...
Lemme know what you think...

-Chris
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Window border size
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:43:24 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec23.133310@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU> pcp2g@karma.astro.Virginia.EDU (Gilligan) writes:

>I need to make the borderwidth of my netrek window smaller, because
>right now it doesn't fit on the screen. All the x windows people
>here are gone for break. I have an xtrekrc, but it isn't obvious how
>to change the border. 

As far as I know, the size of the windows are not reconfigurable.  While
you can certainly increase or shrink a window with your favorite window
manager, the scale will remain the same.  This, in effect, will leave you
with about the same amount of information overall.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mccoy@ils.nwu.edu (Jim Mccoy)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:29:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.040228.1572@athena.mit.edu> wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:
>DD vs SC, from scratch:
>
> [huge chunk of interesting, but unimportant, statistical breakdown
> between SC and DD]
>
>So the question of "What the hell is REALLY happening?" crops up.

Finally, someone tries to address the real question here.

Unfortunately he fumbles miserably by breaking all encounters between such
ships down into two categories that have no real meaning in the game.
"Johnny, what gifts do we have for our departing second place
contestants..." 

>
>Well, there are 2 cases:
>
>	Case #1 : The SC wants to kill the DD.
>
>	Case #2 : The DD wants to kill the SC.
>
>	Case #3 : The SC wants to stop the DD.
>
>	Case #4 : The DD wants to stop the SC.

Why?  Why?  Why?   

Do not ignore the circumstances of the encounter, they are what determines
which ship will live and which one will die.


A fairly well-researched article, even if the research was misdirected, but
I was somewhat amused by one sentence in this section that I felt obliged
to comment upon: 
>So that leaves under (cloaking),
>the strategy most people use when trying to blow past me in a DD.  So
>the question becomes 'Is Warsong gonna get the phaser lock?', not a
>game to be played idly.

And all the DD pilots shudder in fear of the big, bad SC phasers that are
coming to get them...  Ho ho ha ha.  Remember, if you are maintaining lock
you aren't doing much else; a distinct disadvantage for something as
crunchy as a SC.


Clauswitz


-- 
Jim McCoy          |  PGP 2.0 Key md5 hash:
j-mccoy@nwu.edu    |  61323c49024cb089337c78a05aafe8c6
mccoy@ils.nwu.edu  |  finger mccoy@ils.nwu.edu for public key
From: kimd@gizmo.usc.edu (Kim Daugherty)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Base practice server seems to be malfunctioning.
Date: 22 Dec 1992 08:12:09 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.usc.edu


In article <1992Dec21.042025.14885@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, chris@castlab.uucp (Christian) writes:
|> 
|> In case you haven't tried it yet, give inconel.engr.wisc.edu a try (RSA, port
|> 2592, UDP)... if I get any feed back as to how well its working, I'll
|> officially dedicate the server to the public, but right now only I and a few
|> friends have tested it. To encourage the sprit of testing out the server, I'm
|> sticking the thing into CHAOS mode, and setting SB rank to ensign. I'll keep 
|> it that way until I've decided everything is hunky-dory. 
|> 

Please post the IP address of this server.  I couldn't access it by name.  Thanks.


-- 
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Kim Daugherty                   | PhD program in Computer Science   |
| kimd@gizmo.usc.edu              | University of Southern California |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
From: mehlhaff@soda.berkeley.edu (ERic MeHlHaFf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: base practice server
Date: 21 Dec 1992 20:19:26 GMT
Organization: The Dis-Orginization
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec19.100131.7046@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>
>i think it's one of the best ideas to come along in a
>while.  i want to get better at basing, but i haven't been
>taking out a base because i'm not very good at it.
>but anyway, i notice that sometimes the robo-oggers just
>sit by their home planet instead of coming after me like they're
>supposed to.  is this a bug or a feature?

Feature, probably.

I have a couple of suggestions:
1)  READ THE MOTD for that server. 

2)  Declare war on the robo-oggers teams. They leave you alone if you're at
    peace with them.

3)  Tell the robo-oggers to ogg you. it's a simple as a message: R1->F6: ogg 1

4)  READ the motd again.


>also, what do you do when the oggers uncloak on opposite sides
>of you?

Depends on how many of them there are.
If there's 'too many', die...

If there isn't, kill them.

>-teddy
>p.s. i guess i'll be digging up that FAQ on basing again...

Love those FAQ's.

-ERic
-- 
ERic mehlhaff					   mehlhaff@soda.Berzerkeley.EDU
mehlhaff@ocf.berkeley.EDU         "Life? Don't talk to me about life..." -Marvin