From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Sailing into a slip
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:56:27 GMT

tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:

... regarding 260s when approaching a dock.

>This was not an answer what you have to do in your marina. This was an answer
>to the question how do you slow down aproaching the dock down wind.

>At the moment I have a 40 feet sloop (with an engine), but I actually have
>left a dock with sail and approached it (actually a couple of times) with
>the sails. 

Cool.  What is your dock layout like?  How much traffic is around it.

>I had a contract with the dealer (I paid a part of the boat with it) that
>I take some of his potential customers for a sail during the Helsinki
>Floating boat show. To convince the people taking the ride, that the boat
>is manageable by a husband and vife crew, I just for the case of demonstration
>left the dock and returned singlehandedly without bothering to start the 
>engine. The passengers participated in the sailing after we got out and 
>before we got in. I must confess that I did it only because I had
>promised the dealer a proper show.  I can promise you that most of the 
>potential customers were quite impressed and so were some of the people 
>exhibiting boats beside the dock I used.  The space available was triangular
>about 65 feet a side. I can tell you that usually I use the engine, but
>if I need I know how to manage without it.

Great.

>>Another thing.  This advice totally ignores the variables of local 
>>circumstance.

>I never said this is a trick you use without considering the local circum-
>stances.

Well, what you seem to be saying is that it is an all cases better to enter
a dockage under sail.  It is this contention that I'm at issue with.  Fact
of the matter is that you can often accomplish the same result using either
sail, engine or both.  My vote is for the method that's simplest and safest.
If I understand you then you seem to be saying that sail is always best.
I disagree.

>>Large marinas can be quite busy.  Pulling a 360 in the fairway may not be
>>an option during daylight hours.  Some docks are near shore and occasionally
>>have narrow channles through the shoals.  Still want to 360?

>Pulling a 360 does not take an awfull lot of time, if the other boats are
>using engines they have the abilitys to keep clear. If my engine power is
>not available and I have to dock downwind and the wind is hard I do not see
>many options. You know about a better alternative? 

It's not just a time issue.  It's a space and traffic management issue
also.  I do see an option when it's not feasible to approach a dock.
To wit, anchor out and row in.  Unless of couse getting to the dock is a 
matter of survival.

>I am not talking about situations where the use of the engine is a matter
>of choice. I am just talking about how to try to survive, when it is not.

I just cannot imagine when it would be a survival issue to get into
a dock.  Maybe if someons dying on your boat and then who cares
Are you really talking survival issues here?

>>If you spend even a modest amount of effort and time on a diesel engine you
>>will find it to be a most willing and reliable ally.  All it really wants
>>is clean lube oil, clean fuel, adequate cooling, and a battery that
>>will crank it.  It is my opinion that these are no more difficult to
>>keep in good order than the rigging of any boat big enough to have an
>>engine.  

>You never seen some rope that has been left in the water catching some 
>innocent sailor's propeller and making the otherwise perfect diesel useless?

This does happen but it's not all that common.  If you run down floating
lines then there is no hope for you.  Sooner or latter you'll have trouble.
I've heard of lines catching on rudders and centerboards also.  In this
case your means of propulsion don't really matter, you're still just
as stuck.

>Because I have seen and heard about so many engine failures, it took me
>more than two seasons to start to trust in the first engine in my boat.
>It had sofar never failed, when I needed it. Then the lever pulling and 
>pushing the gears on failed, and I can tell you that I was happy to have

Ahh, lack of maintenance strikes again.  The sea will catch you every time.

>a plan and the ability to dock without the engine. In my present boat the
>engine has not failed during the eight seasons I have owned the boat, but
>still I always do a mental plan - how to approach that particular dock
>with the sail only and even if I use the engine my approach is to use
>the engine power as little as possible. Several times I manage without
>even putting the gear on. It has nothing do with pride or something like
>that, it has to do with the safety, I would be worried if I would not
>know that I can control my boat with the sails.


> 
>>As early as the latter part of the nineteenth century, when a lot of cargo
>>was still moving on sailing ships, steam fired harbor tugs became the norm.
>>I think those old timers knew a good thing when they saw it.

>I feel that too many people have too much confidence in their engines and
>too little confidence in their sails. 

No arguement here.

>As I have stated already several 
>times, I have seen more small accidents happening to sailboat docking
>under engine than under sail. I have rescued a sailor in a 25 knot breeze,
>when his engine stopped and he did not have confidence in his sailing

The problem here is really that the guy was incompetent for the
circumstances he wasd in.  Engine failure was only incidental.
I'd be interested in seeing a guy who can't sail dock a boat
in 25Kts.  I'd pay admission to watch.

>skill. Actually he expected me to tow him under sail, but I refused and
>dropped the sails and used the engine. But I can tell you that, had my
>engine not worked I am quite confident that I would have been able to
>get us in with the sail, even if the harbour was uppwind.
>>  

I see we agree again.  Sometimes the engine is a better tool,
sometimes sails are.  It all depends on circumstance.  Either
can back up the other but, IMO, it makes sense to try the
more appropriate tool first.

... regarding cofidence in mechanical devices.      

>Might be hard for you to understand that the problems are caused by
>the people with too much confidence in their engines, because they do
>not plan the situation properly and believe that the engine will baill
>them out of any situation they will encounter.

I can agree that most problems occur because of poor seamanship,
be that failure to maintain gear to a high standard or failure
to plan maneuvers before undertaking them.  I can also agree that
having a fallback plan is always a good idea.  When you say that
using an engine causes problems then you're going to have to come 
up with more than anecdotal evidence to convince me.  Really, these
sailors are just doing for convenience what powerboaters do  
of neccessity.  The system can be made to work reliably. 

I don't care to get involved in a bickerfest when I suspect that at 
bottom we are basically in agreement on a lot of points.  What I'm
trying to point out is that circumstances vary and what works
admirably for you may not be right for everyone everywhere.

cheers,
gerard
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