HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Spruce Goose sitting duck in Vancouver, Wa.
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:44:15 GMT

In article <1gl8nfINNjlj@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> aj@ucs.orst.edu (AJ) writes:
>
>(VANCOUVER, Washington)-- It appears the Spruce Goose will be grounded
>for the winter in Vancouver, Washington. The huge flying boat, which was
>built for Howard Hughes, is headed for McMinnville. The plane arrived
>during the summer drought and the river levels on the Willamette were
>too low to haul the plane upriver. Crews had planned to move the plane
>last week after the river levels went up, but high winds delayed those
>plans. Now, the river levels are too high, and the plane won't be able
>to clear the bridge at Highway 219.

   Boy.  Picky, picky!  It's am amphibious plane isn't it?  :-)

   Seriously, I live on the river and it goes up and down a *lot* every day
   this time of year.  Like maybe 5 feet or more.  I think if they pay 
   attention they should be able to get it up to McMinnville before it rots
   away on that barge.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
From: clark@angelo.amd.com (Brad D. Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: PDX/Corvallis doctoral programs (was Re: Oregon Questions)
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:20:26 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose) writes:


>Unless things have changed since I was last in Oregon, University of Oregon
>has the best if not the only law school in the state while Oregon State
>University has the best College of Business.  This makes a joint J.D./M.B.A.
>program not likely from any of those two universities.  Portland State Un.
>or one of the private schools might offer one but a College Directory at
>the Yale library would be able to tell you that if no one else responds on
>this group.

>Don Palmrose

Lewis and Clark College has a J.D. program (it's actually Northwestern 
School of Law, or something like that). My stepfather got his J.D. there
and would probably melt your ear off in praises.

I just went to L&C for 2 1/2 years, but since I contribute to the Alumni
Fund, they call me an Alum. Nice!!!! Plus, my wife graduated from L & C
in 1979 (as would have I, except for a stint in the Navy).

Brad Clark
clark@brahms.amd.com

Go Pio's!
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Where's the best area to rent in Eugene?
Date: 29 Dec 1992 15:25:55 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Kevin Sullivan (sullivk@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU) wrote:
: Calling all Ducks :-)

: We're moving down to Eugene from Corvallis and don't really know too much
: about the town.  Does anyone have a suggestion about where the best
: place to live is?  We're looking for someplace to rent that is:

:   1. 1 or 2 bdrm. - reasonable rent
:   2. On bus line to UO & LCC
:   3. Clean air (I've asthma and must avoid smoke/pollution)

: Any advice, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated, we've got to
: find a new place this next week (Dec. 28 - Jan. 3).  Thanks very much.

: Kevin Sullivan
: sullivk@atlantis.cs.orst.edu   

When we lived in Eugene, it was at the corner of the 600 block of 8th and the
neighborhood was nice.  It was near a bus stop and within walking distance
of downtown and the bus station.  We hd good results in dealing with
Jennings for a property management agency.  I'd stay away from anything
near the pulp plants and such in Springfield.  I'd suspect that their
emissions would set your asthma off.  Unfortunately, this rules out a lot of
rental places in Springfield.  If you are going to UO, put your name in
for the family housing lottery if you haven't already (assuming that you
qualify).  

Have fun! We miss Eugene a lot!

Karen



Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: clark@angelo.amd.com (Brad D. Clark)
Subject: Looking for Alan Roberts!
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Distribution: or
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:24:39 GMT

Fellow Oregonians (especially those of you in Eugene/Springfield):

I'm looking for the address, or (God forbid) if he is reading this, of
Alan Roberts, ex-of Lewis & Clark College, class of 1980. 

Reason: Wife & I lost touch. 

Alan: PHONE US UP. Or, if you're on the net, drop a note.

Brad (&Debbie) Clark
clark@brahms.amd.com
From: kean@cerridwen.UCS.ORST.EDU (Kean Stump)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: State Universities in Oregon will be soo
Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:52:14 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services, OSU
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cerridwen.ucs.orst.edu

In article <Byqwwn.IG8@rice.edu> dboyes@is.rice.edu (David E Boyes) writes:
>In article <mikelee-031292133042@fp1-pubs-7.uoregon.edu> mikelee@oregon.uoregon.edu (Mike Lee) writes:

>Are there plans to make Old Oregon and the equivalent OSU
>publication available online via something like Gopher or WAIS?
>Drop me a note if Old Oregon's interested.
>-- 
>David Boyes
>dboyes@rice.edu

The University of Oregon has a marvelous gopher burrow, gopher to
gopher.uoregon.edu and look around.  There's information there about requesting
changes/additions to the burrow, that'd be the way to get Old Oregon in their
burrow.

Oregon State University's CWIS/gopher burrow isn't operational yet, but is
slated to be up near the end of January.  OSU's version of Old Oregon isn't
in the burrow currently, but I've added it to the list of "that'd be nice to
have done" items.

Kean

-- 
Kean Stump   
kean@archive.orst.edu                                     (503)-737-4740 
Oregon State U Network Operations                         Cthulu Saves, In Case 
OSU doesn't pay me enough to have official opinions.      It's Hungry Later
From: sullivk@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Kevin Sullivan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Where's the best area to rent in Eugene?
Date: 26 Dec 1992 16:15:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu
Keywords: Eugene, rentals

Calling all Ducks :-)

We're moving down to Eugene from Corvallis and don't really know too much
about the town.  Does anyone have a suggestion about where the best
place to live is?  We're looking for someplace to rent that is:

  1. 1 or 2 bdrm. - reasonable rent
  2. On bus line to UO & LCC
  3. Clean air (I've asthma and must avoid smoke/pollution)

Any advice, tips or directions would be greatly appreciated, we've got to
find a new place this next week (Dec. 28 - Jan. 3).  Thanks very much.

Kevin Sullivan
sullivk@atlantis.cs.orst.edu   
 


Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.org.eff.talk,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney)
Subject: Re: E-Mail Access to Congress (Was Re: Clinton Office Requests Comments
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 05:58:52 GMT

In article <C06IpD.CuK@ais.org> danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik) writes:
>While I would like to be able to e-mail messages to my congressperson,
>I don't think it really opens up access all that much.  What percentage
>of the population actually have e-mail access?  The only thing e-mail
>will do is open access to the priviledged few who knowhow to work with
>computers and have access to e-mail. And, as others have pointed out,
>it's just as easy to ignore e-mail as regular mail.
> ...

I agree that we have to be careful to not just open up access to
the priviledged few (the data haves vs. the data haves not!).  But
we need to get Congress online.  Whether it gets ignored or not,
there will be many messages that will NOT be ignored.  And some
representatives will surprise you and really USE it.

My plan was, and will be, to place terminals in public libraries as
well as the local offices of Representatives.  No matter how well
connected we get, there will still be people who are not connected.
But, our public libraries are (sadly, in some cases should be) the
primary place people go to get information.  That's the place they
should also go to GIVE information -- to their elected officials.
Libraries are sorely under funded, but I think there are ways to
get them online -- many in our area already have computers, so the
problem would be modems and a net connection (and the staff to know
how to get it connected).

I think we can start with the way things have worked (ie. ratio of
representatives to population) but improve on how they are connected
to us.  That is much easier than making constitutional changes.

Another way of looking at email is:  Imagine, a politician can contact
thousands of constituents (voters) for NOTHING!  If 'they' ever really
understand this, watch out!



-- 
Glenn Tenney
voice: (415) 574-3420      fax: (415) 574-0546
tenney@netcom.com          Ham radio: AA6ER
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:418 comp.lang.c:19036 comp.lang.c++:18553 comp.misc:4728
From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:12:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.154711.11632@nastar.uucp> phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie) writes:
>>> #define Push(list,element) AddElementToEnd(list,element)
>>> #define Pop(list) RemoveElementFromEnd(list)
>>
>>Don't do this.

>> []

>>This will prevent you from accidently pushing something into a Queue,
>>or enqueuing something on a stack.
>
>This is what I get for re-typing off-the-cuff instead of looking at my code.
>
>I left out that I have type-checking at runtime - the stack modules check
>that the type of the container and report an error if it does not match
>the expected type - thus no Push onto a Queue is possible.
>

	Thats even WORSE! Give up doing things at run time
that can and should be done at compile time.
>
>>Again, if this is done by derivation, fine.  Although I think
>>implementing a general array class is probably simple enough to go for
>>right off.  (The difference in access times for random access into a
>>large array will very quickly become noticeable.)

	Not if you provide a suitable cache. This works pretty well
if you need to insert and delete slots.
>
>If all I need is a well-bounded size array, I'll just use the
>language's array type.
>
	No, dont do that either, C/C++ does not *have* an array type.
Unless you crave super efficiency,
a proper array template class is usually recommended. One that at
least allows you to ask the length of the array, even if you
dont actually bounds check accesses.

-- 
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
        JOHN (MAX) SKALLER,         maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
	Maxtal Pty Ltd, 6 MacKay St ASHFIELD, NSW 2131, AUSTRALIA
;--------------- SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING SOFTWARE ------------------
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: torek@horse.ee.lbl.gov (Chris Torek)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:59:48 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.15

In article <Bzo97n.DHq@vcd.hp.com> tonyl@vcd.hp.com (Tony Long) writes:
>	Classic C has no "template" for an abstract structure--the 'C'
>structures can only contain the data elements themselves and have no direct
>relationship to functions which operate upon them.

I believe someone else has already pointed this out, but just to be
absolutely sure, this is true in one sense but false in another.  Since
C has pointer to functions, one can embed such pointers into data
objects.  These correspond quite closely to C++ virtual functions
(incidentally, all C++ class functions can always be implemented as
virtual functions, although there may be some cost at runtime to do
so).

An example will probably make this clear.  In C++, one might write
something like:

	class foo {
		int	data;
		virtual void function();
	};

(we will ignore the fact that no one would write quite like this :-) ).
This can be translated directly into C as:

	struct foo {
		int	data;
		void	(*function)(struct foo *);
	};

Of course, given a foo object `object', in C++ one merely writes:

	object.function();

where in C one has to write:

	object.function(&object);

C also lacks constructors and destructors, which becomes more important
when dealing with static and automatic objects rather than pointers and
allocation and free functions; and C++ has finer grained access control
(private, public, and friends) than does C (all or nothing).  In
effect, C++ automates a number of niggling details that must be written
out explicitly in C.  By automating them, it guarantees that coders
will not accidentally get them wrong.  (Coders can, of course, still
get the *specifications* wrong, and in C's favor, C++ specifications
are rather more complex.)

In addition, doing C++-style inheritence in plain C (whether single or
multiple---both are possible) requires rather extensive use of casts
and is generally far less convenient and more error-prone.  To some
extent, comparisons between C++ and C are like those between C and
assembly.  I myself am not entirely happy with C++, but I readily
acknowledge that it is superior to C in a number of ways for a number
of tasks.  (On the other hand, for some tasks assembly is superior to
both---none of these situations are entirely one-sided.)
-- 
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Lawrence Berkeley Lab CSE/EE (+1 510 486 5427)
Berkeley, CA		Domain:	torek@ee.lbl.gov
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,misc.misc,alt.kids-talk,soc.culture.misc,de.talk.misc
From: hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Hauben)
Subject: Happy New Net Year Everyone! :-)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:50:54 GMT

An International Happy Holidays and a Good New Year to All!

Feliz Natal!   -     Prettig Kerstfeest!

      God Jul!       -          Glaedelig Jul!

Sa-Na-Goodish!  -    |Feliz Navidad!

      Froehliche Weihnachten! -  Boas Festas!

Buon Natale!    -    Joyeux Noeel!

      Sheng Dan Kuai Le!  -  Nodlaig mhaith chugnat!

E Ku O Dun      -  Wesotych Swiat!

(True, these might all say "Merry Christmas", but the spirit is
right.)

If anyone would like to post "Happy New Year" in various
languages, please followup to this message.

Have a Happy New Net Year Everyone. :-)

for the Amateur Computerist Newsletter,
	-Michael
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael Hauben    CC '95      | Write ME for the NEW Amateur Computerist   |
| hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu | Special Supplement on Usenet News called   |
| am893@cleveland.freenet.edu   | "The Wonderful World of Usenet News"       |
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:404 alt.current-events.somalia:734 soc.culture.usa:9357
From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 03:52:57 GMT

In article <id.RJ3W.CPI@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.085942.29270@ucc.su.OZ.AU> maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller) writes:
>> >Examples? When I have a lot of tedious coding, I generally write a
>> >program to write the program for me.
>
>> 	Even with the best tools, say a DBMS, you still
>> have to type in the field names, lengths, valididty
>> conditions etc. After you'vr done this sort of thing 20
>> times before, there is no design to do, you know how to
>> do it, you just have to get stuck into it and do it.
>
>That's not programming any more. That's data entry.

	I agree. So almost all the 'stuff' I do as a programmer
is data entry. I find the time it takes to type in a program
a major obstacle to meeting deadlines (I cant type properly).

	Its sometimes difficult to explain that to get
that simple screen working required three days of typing.

>
>If the program the customer is paying for is small or random enough that
>a canned solution won't work, and a custom generator isn't cost-effective,
>then you're stuck. I'm not sure how you could get into a situation like
>that after the first couple of jobs: you did say this was stuff you'd done
>bunches of times before... then you should already have something close
>to the generator you need in your pocket.

	No, there are always just enough differences to make it
impractical to implement a solution. At least that was definitely
the case before I started using C++. Now at least I can
reduce some of the overhead with C++ facilities for reusability.

	As to how I got stuck in this situation: amoung the
reasons might be that the market in Australia in small enough
and the number of programmers large enough that there is
never enough work similar enough to do what you describe.

-- 
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
        JOHN (MAX) SKALLER,         maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
	Maxtal Pty Ltd, 6 MacKay St ASHFIELD, NSW 2131, AUSTRALIA
;--------------- SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING SOFTWARE ------------------
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.org.eff.talk,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: ronda@ais.org (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: Re: E-Mail Access to Congress (Was Re: Clinton Office Requests Comments
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 93 11:23:32 EST
Organization: UMCC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Daniel Romanchik (danr@ais.org) wrote:
: While I would like to be able to e-mail messages to my congressperson,
: I don't think it really opens up access all that much.  What percentage
: of the population actually have e-mail access?  The only thing e-mail
: will do is open access to the priviledged few who knowhow to work with
: computers and have access to e-mail. And, as others have pointed out,
: it's just as easy to ignore e-mail as regular mail.
: 

Well if there were email access then it would be an encouragement
for more people to access email.

I don't have the ability to fax - but I'm not opposed to fax
access to Congress so why are you opposed to E-mail access to Congress?

The point is that Congress has email access among itself but the 
public is barred from that access.

We're paying for Congress's email access and we are barred from it.

Congress is obliged to do things publicly and email access would increase
their public accessibility.

This is a new avenue to involve the public in the activities of 
Congress.

We'll see how easy it is for Congress to ignore us once we have
email and online access!


             ronda

Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: wlarkin@hounix.org (Ward Larkin)
Subject: Re: E-Mail Access to Congress (Was Re: Clinton Office Requests Comments
Organization: Houston UNIX Users Group (HOUNIX), Houston, TX
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1993 01:56:07 GMT

In article <C06IpD.CuK@ais.org> danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik) writes:
>While I would like to be able to e-mail messages to my congressperson,
>I don't think it really opens up access all that much.  What percentage
>of the population actually have e-mail access?  The only thing e-mail
>will do is open access to the priviledged few who knowhow to work with
>computers and have access to e-mail. And, as others have pointed out,
>it's just as easy to ignore e-mail as regular mail.
>
>If we want to really open up access to Congress, we are going to have
>to do something really different.  One idea I push is increasing the
>number of representatives.  Why is the magic number 435?  Most Western
>democracies have many more representatives.
>
>With more representatives, each person's voice will count for more.  I
>favor doubling or tripling the number of US representatives. 

But Republicans would still be Republicans, and Democratics would
still be Democrats.  There would just be more of them.

The change that should be made is Proportional Represenation in
the House.  The Senate can stay the way it is.

The House election would become national, and voters would simply
cast a vote for a single political party.  Then each politcal party
would get to have the same percentage of representatives as they
received in the popular election.  A minimum percentage could be
set to qualify for any representatives, but my thought is that
approximately 1 per cent ( or four representatives ) would be a
good minimum.

This would force the House to be more responsive to the interests
of the voters.

The system that exists now was setup 200 years ago when there was
no mass communication, no telecommunication, no high speed - long 
distance transportation system, nor a good mail service.

During this day and age, the benefits of idealogical representation 
far outweigh the benefits of localized representation.


-- 
-- Ward Larkin
   wlarkin@hounix.org
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:406 comp.text:1497 comp.misc:4698 comp.lang.misc:4076
From: bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.text,comp.misc,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Thanks for "page break" responses
Date: 24 Dec 1992 20:42:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


A while back, I posted a request for information how to upload page
breaks with large files. The answers I got had one interesting
character. They all suggested that I asked the wrong question. First I
should have asked, "Does anyone want page breaks embedded in uploaded
and posted files?"

All the answers suggested that embedding page breaks causes more
problems than it solves. For most people who read posts and their e-mail
on-line, page breaks are usually annoying. While for people who read
posts and e-mail off line or from print outs, if they want page breaks they
can read the
files using almost any word processor. Most word processors insert page
breaks automatically.

I'm glad I posted the question and I appreciate the responses. I have
been saved the added work of embedding page breaks and many readers have
been saved the annoyance such page breaks would have caused them.

Usenet News as an experiment in interactive and responsive connectivity
has again proven its superiority to any of its predeccessors in labor
saving and time saving conveniency. :)   (:
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: What is Object Oriented Programming? Is C doomed?
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:06:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.085942.29270@ucc.su.OZ.AU> maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller) writes:
> >Examples? When I have a lot of tedious coding, I generally write a
> >program to write the program for me.

> 	Even with the best tools, say a DBMS, you still
> have to type in the field names, lengths, valididty
> conditions etc. After you'vr done this sort of thing 20
> times before, there is no design to do, you know how to
> do it, you just have to get stuck into it and do it.

That's not programming any more. That's data entry.

> 	Incidentally, you mentioned if you have
> lots of coding to do you write a program to write the program.
> This is a great idea, but one want to avoid too much
> time spent on the program the customer isnt paying for.

If the program the customer is paying for is small or random enough that
a canned solution won't work, and a custom generator isn't cost-effective,
then you're stuck. I'm not sure how you could get into a situation like
that after the first couple of jobs: you did say this was stuff you'd done
bunches of times before... then you should already have something close
to the generator you need in your pocket.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.misc,news.misc,alt.bbs.internet,news.futures