HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dmccrea6@mach1.wlu.ca (doug mccready F)
Subject: Re: Social programs (Was: Reform party platform)
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:42:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.182206.23720@Princeton.EDU> nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker) writes:
>In article <92343.193806SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>I hold the view that social programs should be universal, because
>>most social programs address needs that we all share. Everyone,
>>rich or poor, has similar child care needs; will get sick, and
>>will get old...
>
>
>>I have yet to see anyone challenge the concept of universal
>>fire protection, or defence, or police services.
>
The economists are looking into the efficiency of fire dpeartments which are
not publically owned and run. There is a surprising amount of evidence that
private fire departments really are much better than public ones. As for the
police, some people are forced into forming communities in which they have
their own private police force when they discover that the public police
force costs more and does less. Efficiency dictates that sometimes - so I
really do think that someone is challenging the public fire and police
forces.

I would go on to say that Jarislosky (sp) said last week that he thought the
IMF or the World Bank would tell us to get rid of our social services. There
is precedent for that in some African nations. In order to ensure that those
countries got help with their currency problems, they were told to cut out
ALL spending on education and health. If Canada enters a period of an
election in which it appears there is some uncertainty about the outcome
(ie. a socialist government), I would think there could be a run on the C$
which would cause the Can. government to appeal to the World Bank or the
IMF and they could ask us in repsonse to lower our social program spending.
Perhaps it is better to be masters in our own house and do it before being
forced to do it by some outsider organization. Thus, while I think the
prediction by Jarislosky was premature, we ought to take the message to
heart and save ourselves having it come true.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: ohi@dsc.dcl.co.jp (Kazunori Ohi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Japanese man WANTED (In n)
Keywords: Mititaka Sano
Date: 24 Dec 92 05:05:04 GMT
Organization: Digital Service Corporation, Tokyo, Japan


         I am looking a friend of mine named Mititaca Sano, Japanese, 21,       a college student.  He left Japan for Canada the summers of two years ago.                
        Please find him, his boy fried is looking him.   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: None worth mentioning.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 18:11:09 GMT

In article <schuck.725651129@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>  Mark Cochran writes:
>>> Bruce Schuck 
>
>>>Yes it is attached, but NO it isn't dependent wholly on her body for life.
>>>
>>>Out of the womb it will survive fine with the normal amount of care.
>>>
>>>And I repeat, there is *no* physical differences between the baby.
>>>
>
>>Would you consider a 2 chambered heart as opposed to the normal 4
>>chambered heart a significant difference?
>
>>Gues what? Up until the time of birth, the fetal heart functions with
>>only 2 chambers, just like a fish. During the birth process, the stoma
>>in the septun closes (normally, if not, we get to do some nasty
>>surgery on the neonate) and we get a 4 chambered heart.
>>What was that you said about *no* physical differences?
>
>Do you understand what the word *physical* means?
>
I dare say I understand it better then you.

>I understand perfectly well that within the womb the *functions* of
>breathing etc. are different.
>
No Bruce, the function is not different, the *structure* is different.
Thanks to the patent ductus arteriosus and the foramen ovale, the
structure and function of the heart are completly different.
Continue to deny the differences if you choose, but they do exist.

--
                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
These are the views of my employer. They also represent the views of
your employer, your government, the Church of your choice, and the
Ghost of Elvis. So there.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: chris@mks.com (Chris Retterath)
Subject: Re: Social programs (Was: Reform party platform)
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:25:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.182206.23720@Princeton.EDU> nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker) writes:
>In article <92343.193806SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
...
>>I have yet to see anyone challenge the concept of universal
>>fire protection, or defence, or police services.
>
>Here it is then.  I challenge the concept of universal fire protection.
>I see no problem with privatised fire departments.  I do not believe in
>private police or defence forces:  pointing a gun at someone requires
>governmental controls, IMO.

Good points.

Where I live the only fire department is all-volunteer. It works quite well.
In cities, with high densities, fires can spread to blocks at a time,
like today in St Johns. In that case, for the common good, towns and cities
take on fire protection as a service. With new 'social welfare' legislation,
like Windsor's failed lawsuit to keep a weakling woman (who couldn't do
chinups) off their fire department, there are new incentives to get this
back into the private domain where costs are visible. Kitchener contracts
garbage collection.. to the lowest bidder. I believe Etobicoke does as well.

As for private police or defence forces, I think the concern is that the
state's use of force be kept under strict controls. However, private
police (security guards) already outnumber public officers in some
countries. This trend will accelerate as overworked police stop defending
private property ..for example, Waterloo regional police will only accept
3 false alarms a year from a security system before they totally ignore
alarms from that site for a full year.

As for private armies, there have always been mercenaries...
The american revolutionaries hired the Hessians, et cetera.

	Chris Retterath

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: R5321GAB@vm.univie.ac.at
Subject: Looking for people in B.C.
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:10:17 GMT

Hello all,
     I will be moving to Vancouver this summer where I will be in the grad.
programme in linguistics at S.F.U. I would like to take this opportunity
to introduce myself in order to hopefully meet some people electronically
before the analog me moves on...
I am completing my M.A. in visual studies here in Vienna, Austria. I have
also studied linguistics and am now looking to combine two of my major
interests even more by working on my Ph.D. in linguistics. I am very
interested in minority languages. One of my interests is the creation of
multi-media computer systems to stir interest in language and culture in
youth. I have studied Celtic and Native American languages.
    As far as computers are concerned; I work as a 3D animator for a small
company here and also do some free-lance design. I blab alot about virtual
reality and space and will hopefully be doing some "real" work in the field
this summer. I am an experimental composer. What else can I say? I have
never written a classified before... I would like to meet people involved
in these fields and interested in such amibiguous areas as art, theatre,
experimental music, interface and system design, animation, linguistics....
Anyone?
I know the difficulty involved in moving to a new city (having done it
before), and hope to meet a few people before I take this large inter-
continental leap. I would also like info about job situations (ideally in
the computer animation industry), apartments and houses (Burnaby area
probably, prices, where to look, offers of free houses etc), hip places to
go to see and be seen, etc..
I hope to hear from someone soon!

Patrick Maun
R5321GAB@AWIUNI11.BITNET
R5321GAB@AWIUNI11.EDVZ.UNIVIE.AC.AT
Vienna, Austria
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:9730 can.politics:11155
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Loss of Faith in Canada 
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 16:54:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.054229.7271@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <13740@grayt> grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
>>
>>I agree that this forum is not representative of Canadian opinion. However
>>the Canada of 1992 is not the same Canada that existed in 1985. The trauma
>>that was forced upon the country in the imposition of the FTA, GST, Meech
>>Lake and Charlottetown, has changed something and not for the better.
>>
>>Canadians have lost faith in their system of government. The antipathy
>>towards politicians and political solutions now presetn in Canada does
>>seem to reflect in some manner the attitudes of the libertarians.
>>Canada has turned insular both socially and politically.
>
>There is no nascent or established political movement that is
>libertarian in nature in Canada...or even really tending that way...
>of any real significance, that is.
>
>In fact, the tendency is noticably anti-libertarian right now...
>...certainly there is an antipathy towards politicians these days,
>but that is because the bills for the government excesses of the
>last twenty years are coming due, and the free lunch financed on
>public borrowing is over.
>
>We certainly need a political movement in Canada that is interested
>in liberty...but there is certainly none evident...at best one has
>a choice of the lesser of evils.  Mainstream politics in Canada
>has become hopelessly "politically correct", and pretty much captured
>by it flawed trendy totalitarian ideas of the baby-boom generation.
>
>It may be a blessing that we may perhaps be "saved" from the worst
>excesses in ideology of the boom generation by the debt overhang.

well said.
forget libertarianism or not -- the time has come for fiscal
responsibility. call it what you will, it has to happen. because
the way things are right now cannot continue. and it would be better
if we fixed things ourselves rather than letting them fix themselves,
because the latter scenario will be far more painful, and is unavoidable
anyway, regardless of what the mob tells us.

--
charles
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Loss of Faith in Canada was ( Re: Death of Canada (Was: Death of America)
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:15:27 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <WARKENT.92Dec14105516@ltisun14.epfl.ch> warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:
>Refering to a discussion in talk.politics.misc, our New York correspondant,
>Gary L Dare, wrote parenthetically:
>> (it's not often one finds a Canadian and devout libertarian ...)
>
>Except on USENET, which is why I take all discussions in can.* and
>soc.culture.canada with a large grain of salt.  They certainly are not
>representative of the country that I know.

I agree that this forum is not representative of Canadian opinion. However
the Canada of 1992 is not the same Canada that existed in 1985. The trauma
that was forced upon the country in the imposition of the FTA, GST, Meech
Lake and Charlottetown, has changed something and not for the better.

Canadians have lost faith in their system of government. The antipathy
towards politicians and political solutions now presetn in Canada does
seem to reflect in some manner the attitudes of the libertarians.
Canada has turned insular both socially and politically.
-- 
i.sinature
From: rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Moving to Canada
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:49:47 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
> > -- 
> 
> I lived there and worked there for 2 1/2 years from 84 to 87.
> Hey wait, I'm no German, I'm just posting from a German machine.  I lived the
> too - for 2 years - and I despise the Germans.  I cannot address your comment
> re. Canadian beer, as I've never drunk any.
> 
> What's so boring about it?  The people.
> 
> 

     Takes a lot of balls coming from a Brit, Godfrey.

-Bob

--                    
INTERNET:  rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!rcf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Re: Moving to Canada
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:25:50 GMT

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>In article <1992Dec20.062243.28284@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes:
>> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>> : In article <1992Dec20.010043.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>> : >What's so boring about it?  The people.
>> 
>> If so, the NRC shouldn't have fired you, no matter how unprofessional
>> you undoubtedly are: Canada can always use boring people like yourself 
>> to join our ranks.
>> 

>Like all Canadians, you find it very difficult to grasp even the simplest
>of concepts, don't you.  I must have told you 5 times at least that I 
>resigned from the NRC just after they extended my position by a further
>two years.  Where I come from we don't call that "getting fired".  I
>have also refered you in the past to a whole host of newspaper articles
>about my resignation that appeared in the Canadian press in Feb/March 1987
>as proof of my claims, but you will insist on sticking to your ideas in the
>face of evidence to the contrary.  That's Canadian professionalism, I guess.

   The thing that *you* don't realize, Lawrence, is that he is probably
just saying that you got fired because he enjoys irritating you.


>> : Come on, now. Don't generalize. Please, be specific.
>> : Which group or category of people was boring, in your opinion?
>> : Have you watched a Bare Naked Ladies (the band) in concert?
>> : They certainly are not boring.
>> 

>I have never met an interesting Canadian.

   That's probably because we see you coming first....

>> Michael, there's no point in debating with racists like Godfrey.
>> (I'm just very annoyed that my newsreader cannot also kill followups.)
>> 

>I'm not a racist.

   ...you just play one on the net...???



Dave Halliwell
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Canadians complacent?????????
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:30:30 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Distribution: na
Organization: The Bates Motel

clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart M. Clamen) writes:
>ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>
>   I am somewhat bewildered by the rather spiteful anti-Canadian
>   rantings of T.A. Kaldis.

Cold War is over, now it's time to work over the G7 democracies ...
(-;

>Kaldis, coming from a country with a strong tradition of doubting
>the utility of government, assumes that Canadians must be complacent,
>for we seem to allow our governments more powers over our daily lives
>than do our American cousins.

Most criticisms such as TK's against Canada, Europe, etc. regarding
non-Communist western capitalist nations who are "impure" disregard
history, or are purposefully or accidentally ignorant.  Many patterns
of old world culture, and Canada being formed as an extension of that
old world rather than breaking away as the U.S. did, predate socialism
particularly as "socialism" is being declared for any practices that
differ from that in various American regions ... Napoleon, Disraeli
and Bismarck are probably more responsible for Euro-Canadian culture,
values and norms than Marx (Karl or Groucho) and Engels (not Tim!).

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
From: rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Take It To Talk.Abortion
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:09:13 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA


     Folks, there's a reason talk.abortion was invented.  It's because 
arguments about abortion:
a - never end
b - take up a lot of bandwidth
c - clog up every conference they come into contact with.

     So please take this entire argument out of s.c.canada and back to 
talk.abortion where it belongs!

-Bob

--                    
INTERNET:  rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!rcf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan Marr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Laurence Godfrey - wounded child?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 04:21:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: ikkyu

Laurence Godfrey:  Since you have neither the wit nor wisdom to lead or
follow, get out of the way.  You have nothing to contribute until you
mature.  Your postings in soc.culture.canada (I've seen 8 since Dec. 9)
contribute no information or insight and are selfishly inflammatory.  I
don't know who arrested your development but it surely wasn't anybody
on this newsgroup.  Grind your axe elsewhere.

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de (also godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov) writes:

    > Then why bother reading this newsgroups contributed to mainly by
    > Canadian PEOPLE, whom you find so boring?

    Anyway the answer is that it amuses me to irritate Canadians.

Small things small minds.  It takes no courage or intelligence to
irritate people.

    I told you I was initiating legal action against [Bohner] for
    defamation.

You strike me as a blowhard.

    Re: What Binds Canada Together?  Easy - Apathy and Mediocrisy [sic]

You are a fine one to talk.  Your grasp of language is less than
mediocre.

    Re: Canadian Culture Shock?  Indeed it would be a shock if any
    [culture] were in evidence in canada.

I'm not surprised you are unable to see it.

    Re: Moving to Canada.  Canada is a terrible country in which to
    live, in my opinion.  The place is utterly boring.

    I lived there and worked there for 2 1/2 years from 84 to 87.  Hey
    wait, I'm no German, I'm just posting from a German machine.  I
    lived there too - for 2 years - and I despise the Germans.

    [later] What's so boring about it?  The people.

    [later] Like all Canadians, you find it very difficult to grasp
    even the simplest of concepts, don't you.

    [later] I have never met an interesting Canadian.

Undoubtedly the interesting ones kept out of your way.  I hope to do
the same forthwith.

    I'm not a racist.

You contradict yourself.  "Racism: the belief that some races are
inherently better than others.  Racial prejudice and discrimination.
[AHD]"  You prejudge.  You discriminate.  You exhibit racism.  You are
a racist.

Perhaps there is no group you don't despise.  You are suffering.  You
are blinded by hate.  If you didn't despise yourself so much, you
wouldn't have so much hate and you wouldn't generalize it.

    I have also refered [sic] <a reader> in the past to a whole host of
    newspaper articles about my resignation that appeared in the
    Canadian press in Feb/March 1987 as proof of my claims, but you
    will insist on sticking to your ideas in the face of evidence to
    the contrary.  That's Canadian professionalism, I guess.

It seems you seek attention.  There was some controversy regarding your
resignation.  There is a pattern.  Seek help.

Alan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:22:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.211606.21447@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>"So far, no true fiscal conservative has ever made it into office --
>not even Mags."
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

look here -- i went to great trouble to quote the numbers
that *you* asked for to support my claim that Thatcher *was* a 
conservative whereas Reagan was not. are you so dishonest that you
have no problem deleting them out of hand and continuing to
make a moronic, unsubstantiated claim? Thatcher was as conservative
as there has been in a *very* long time. she got the job done --
Reagan did not. i don't care if you consider her a "true" conservative
or not -- you could define "true" to be anything you want. she did
the fiscal job that was required. Reagan didn't.

what kind of person makes a claim that two people are similar,
asks for numbers that *he* should have provided since *he* made
the claim, then deletes them without further comment and continues
to make the same allegations? i would argue that such a person is
dishonest and not worthy of being debated. how do you look at
yourself in the mirror each morning?

>>>*Think about it.  Mulroney came into power *after* Reagan and Thatcher.
>>>He knew how much room he had with which to maneuvre ...
>>
>>oh yeah, poor guy. nothing he could do. gee, Gary, he sure *told*
>>us he could do a lot. but i guess we owe him *infinite* benefit 
>>of the doubt.
>
>We do?  Why do you say that?

i was being sarcastic, in reference to your "statement" which implies
that you felt Mulroney did not have the power to be more 
conservative. that and your previous statements, also refuted by
evidence, that the PC's are in any way conservative. or that Brian
is doing a good job.

--
charles
Xref: sparky soc.culture.canada:9713 can.politics:11140
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:39:24 GMT

cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>>Couple to that the fact that business likes social peace
>>and helmeted cops on every corner with semi-automatics does 
>>nothing to foster the stability that commerce requires ...
>
>oh boy, here we go again...
>
>give me a break. that is just your bias. and it makes no sense to 
>suggest that business would *want* to waste resources on police.

You don't have to grow up working in a family business like I did to
realize that the alternative for business would be L.A. Riots all year
'round ...

>>Since the Canadian Establishment and their running dogs (-; did not
>>anticipate downturns, we all got caught.  As has everyone else.
>
>bull. the social spending was ridiculously high before the downturn
>and you know it.

That's what I meant ... but the tax revenues and value were greater
then than now ...

[Re: Reagan and Thatcher and spending cuts ...]
>>they threw up their hands halfway through their first terms.
>
>total, unadulterated bull. Reagan's deficits were horrendous all
>through his terms.

That's what I meant.  Slow down and read more carefully next time.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics,talk.abortion,talk.politics.animals