HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: Shostakovic's Preludes and Fugues recording: comments?
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 20:07:40 GMT

In article <bruce.715980354@spssig>, bruce@spss.com (Bruce Stephenson) writes:
>gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep8.123856.454@cine88.cineca.it>, simion@iveuncc.unive.it (Marco Simionato) writes:
>>> ...
>>> Tatiana Nikoleeva's recording and if it is currently available.
>> ...
>>and both said it wasn't as good as Nikolayeva's. I can probably get hold of the
>>reviews themselves and type them in if more detail is needed.
>
>>Nikolayeva's recording is with Hyperion.
>
>Nikolayeva also has a newer recording, on Melodiya, which I like a lot.
>I haven't heard the earlier ones.  The Melodiya set is reviewed in a
>recent Fanfare.

  Could you check please what is the date of Melodya's recording ?
It seems to me that it is OLDER than the one on Hyperion.
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage
Date: 9 Sep 1992 15:23:56 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
: I personally believe that, in the long run, Cage will be remembered as 
: possibly one of THE most important composers in history.

*sigh*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Subject: Re: Shostakovic's Preludes and Fugues recording: comments?
Organization: Ifi, University of Trondheim / AVH
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 12:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.123856.454@cine88.cineca.it> Marco Simionato
<simion@iveuncc.unive.it> writes:
>I would appreciate any comments on the recent release on K.Jarret's
>recording of this piano work.
>I would also be grateful if anyone could tell me which label released
>Tatiana Nikoleeva's recording and if it is currently available.
>

If we are talking about the 24 preludes and fugues in all
the different keys, those were released on the English label
Hyperion. 
It should still be available.

Terje
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Barenboim (was Du Pre recital)
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:16:36 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In High Fidelity many years ago, someone, I think it was Harris Goldsmith wrote
probably the nastiest review of any classical recording I've ever read. It was
of Barenboim's Brahms' Requiem. It ended with the line something like: "There
is a German Requiem for every taste, and Barenboim's is for the tasteless."
From: lana@magenta.corp.sgi.com (Lana Mountford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: poulenc dialogues
Keywords: poulenc
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:10:07 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Sep8.085212.16712@sci.kun.nl>, gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse) writes:
|> Can anybody tell me if the rest 
|> of the opera is as good? 

The rest of the opera is as good.  :-)

I've sung a few things from this opera  -- particularly the "Ave Maria," 
which I *LOVE* -- in a couple of women's choruses.

|> And what recordings exist, and how good they are? 

That I can't tell you.  I've only heard one performance of this, and
it was a "live from Lincoln Center" broadcast by the Met.

-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|    /)                      | Lana Mountford    
|   / /  __    ___    __     | Silicon Graphics  
|__(_/__(__)\__/  )__(__)\__ | Mountain View, CA 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ronald J Friedel)
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Summary: Rutter
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 12:24:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.122159.8776@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <8SEP199220025974@eccles.caltech.edu>, inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
>> as a follow-up to wilcox@vax.oxford etc etc etc
>> 
>
>>  4) Frankly, if the Cambridge singers represent the best of English
>>  choral music (I don't agree), then it's pretty damning of the whole
>>  gendre - they give very _nice_, twee, uninvolved performances. Blah.
>>  (& that probably reflects Rutterdom).
>> 
>You mistake me. The Cambridge Singers are easily the best of the English Choral
>Tradition, not of British choral music as a whole. They are the pinnacle of
>that niceness, that detachedness which is the fashion in the English Cathedral
>and Oxbridge College circuit. If you like, they out-Kings Kings. As such they
>are excellent for English Choral Tradition Music: the Tallises and Byrds, the
>Stanfords and Wesleys, the Elgars and Howellses. They are also extremely
>accurate, blend perfectly and respond precisely to Rutter. That is what makes a
>good choir. I have already been called a heretic for saying this by a fellow
>Oxonian, so you are not alone in your criticism of me.
>
>Unfortunately it does not, as you say, make for interesting listening. They'd
>probably do better without Rutter, too. (The posters for a recent concert of
>theirs in Oxford had JOHN RUTTER emblazoned in large letters across the centre,
>with The Creation and Haydn in small letters above, but I digress.) The
>trouble is that the same is true of much of British Choral Music: many pro 
>singers are Oxbridge-trained so are similarly bland and uninteresting. The best
>ones are the ones who can break out of that and get involved with the music.
>

I have just a little personal observation to add here.  I was one, of many,
amatuer choral singers who performed under Rutter's direction in NYC at
Carnegie Hall.  So I started buying Cambridge Singers CDs.  I had earlier
purchased "The Holly and the Ivy" by Clare College Choir and Orchestra
and was impressed with the joy and verve that they projected, although
a bit rough.  In comparison, "Christmas with the Cambridge Singers," a
much more recent recording, seems at first hearing to be dull and lifeless.

>
>Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
>wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.


-- 
Ron Friedel
GeoSciences  UW-Milwaukee
rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman)
Subject: Re: Xenakis / Arditti box
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 02:13:37 GMT
Organization: Applied Parallel Rsrch (Berkeley)

ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:

>I heard rumors of the complete string quartets of Xenakis by the Arditti
>Quartet, I think on the Montagne label.  I haven't ever seen them at
>Tower.  Does anyone know anything about them?

Yes! The 2 cd box of the complete chamber music of IX is on
Disque Montaigne  as part of their continuing series "Arditti
Quartet Edition".  2 CD 782005  (1992)

It contains the 3 quartets  st/4   (1955-62)
   tetras (1983) (also on the Gramavision Arditti 1 disc)
  tetora (1990)  (his best by far!)

This is an excellent collection, as we expect from the Arditti.
It will be hard to get, like all the DM recordings, because
of problems they are having in the US with their distributer,
Allegro, who doesnt seem to understand what DM is doing.
Their recent catalog is very impressive.  I spoke this June
with the Directrice of DM in Paris, and she is trying to get
more of their recordings into the stores.  

Their address is    Disques Montaigne, 15 Avenue Montaigne,
    Paris 75008    fax is +1 42 22 60 16
  ask them to send you the latest catalog .
-- 
/\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/\
\/Richard Friedman (510)528-7055  |  rchrd@netcom.com    
/\Applied Parallel Rsch (Berkeley)|                          /\
\/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\/
From: rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: La Traviata
Keywords: Ponselle
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:20:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <1992Sep04.224918.6579@lloyd.Camex.COM> chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.205302.8634@umbc3.umbc.edu> maher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Dr.
>Michael Maher; ACS (GUEST)) writes:
>
>Even more satisfying is his "Di Provenza," one of the few occasions when
>this melody doesn't come off a little dweeby.

It shouldn't come off that way.  The aria is a deep expression of
Verdi's profound sense of humanity.  The words ``Il tuo vecchio
genitor, tu non sai quanto soffri'' can be most touching if
movingly sung.  This aria says something about family strength,
love, and duty--one of Verdi's strongest themes which often
gives birth to his most powerful music (Gilda and Rigoletto,
Aida and Amonasro, Lida and her father in Battaglia, Luisa and
Miller, Fiesco and Maria, Simone and Amelia, the two Foscari,
Massimiliano and Carlo in Masnadieri, Azucena and Manrico).

``Di Provenza'' is one of the great musical expressions
of healing and comfort.  It shows that Germont is not just 
a stuffed shirt, but a man who is able to bring the
full meaning and feeling of ``home'' (Di Provenza il mar il suol)
to his son, when he feels his son is most in need of it.

Richard
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's musical joke
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:59:56 GMT

In article <CB.92Aug27121754@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Margaret Mikulska writes:
>
>   a "satirical cantata" in the form of a discussion, sort of,
>   what kind of music _should_ be written and what kind is "degenerate" and
>   to be avoided.
>
>Sounds reminiscent of Schoenberg's piece "Tonal or Atonal", a most weighty
>discussion of music theory. :-)
>
>Chris Brewster
>cb@cray.com
>
>PS.  I might not have the title exactly right.

Indeed: it's "Three Satires" op.27 (for mixed choir).

No, I don't think there is much resemblance, only the most superficial
one: both works ridicule those who tell the composers how they "should"
write their music.  Schoenberg's work, however, is more sophisticated
and holds quite well on its own (i.e., even if you don't know or
understand the text); Shostakovich's piece is a more straightforward, to
put it mildly, satire, and the music, in my opinion, just doesn't stand
on its own - it definitely needs the text.

-Margaret
From: beh@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bruce Howells)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Shenkarian analysis
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:40:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: geech.BEH.92Sep14134054
Distribution: rec
Organization: Internet access via the Free Software Foundation


Interesting that you should find that so (to whomever posted from
Queensland University).  I went to two schools, one which used the
Shenkarian system (University of Michigan) and one which did not.
Interestingly enough, while I will say precious few bad things about my
undergrad, I will say that they were not as strong in theory as UMich.  

The Shenkarian "method" was once jokingly explained to me as being derived
from the "Three Blind Mice" School of thought as well, however, on a
serious level, was described as being more of a way to break down the music
to such a point that it was at its most minimal level.  The phenomenon
which you are discussing, the descending pitches from the third pitch to
tonic, is really pretty valid.  The question is this:  Does it do it in
motives, does it do it via a large structure (as in over the course of
several movements) or does it do it as an over-all structure?  Not all
pieces really do follow this guideline -- THANK HEAVEN!  If they did, the
musical world would be a boring place.  However, quite a few of the
common-practice period works do, and the reason is that the common-practice
works almost always fall into the category of using the tonal relationships
which constitute the "rules".  In other words, they all relate from tonic
to dominant and so on.  Therefore, the third (major or minor) brings the
work into tonal focus, telling us whether it's in major or minor, and the
tritone brings the work into tonal focus, telling us where the tonic
cadences are, and which pitch is functioning as the tonic.  

What all this is meant to say is this:  Shenker (I was taught) is used to
break the piece down to its most simplistic form(s).  If the piece starts
in C Major, noodles around to G Major, noodles around the circle of fifths
or something, then ends up back in C, the overal shape of the piece is
C-G-C.    Somewhere in there, it's possible that the composer took the
highest pitch of the piece as E, which would support the theory of 
E-D-C (Three blind mice).  E as the third of C Major, D as the fifth of G
Major, and C as tonic.  It's that simple.
(and yes, I think it's also painful... *sigh*)

Good luck in the class...

--Nancy Howells
(beh@gnu.ai.mit.edu through the good graces of my husband)
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Martinon (was Re: Mahler's 5th...)
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:31:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Jon Conrad writes:
> 
> Posted: 11 Sep 92 17:45:21 GMT
> 
> ([Martinon's] coruscating "Miraculous Mandarin" Suite is still about the
> best, I think; will RCA ever reissue it?)
> 
> Jon Alan Conrad


Hear, hear! I would like to see the Mandarin on a single CD with Martinon's
versions of Daphnis & Chloe Suite No. 2 and Varese's Arcana, also stunning
recordings. (Stranger CD combinations have happened...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Live from Orchestra Hall, Chicago
Reply-To: txa86@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:58:15 GMT

For you guys live in Chicago area, these concerts in Orchestra Hall are
worth listenning:

Tuesday, October 13, 8:00pm
Anne Sophie Mutter, Violin
Program to be announced

Sunday, October 18, 3:00pm & Sunday, October 25, 3:00pm
Tatiana Nikolaeva, Piano (from C.I.S.)
Program: Shostakovich The Complete Fugue and Prelude (Composed for Nikolaeva)
                      Part I  (Oct.18)
                      Part II (Oct.25)

Monday, October 26, 8:00pm
Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra
Violinist: Cho-Liang Lin
Program: The Work of Webbern, Brahms and Prokofiev

Sunday, November 29, 7:30pm
Chung Trio (Korea)
Kyung-Hwa Chung, Violin
Myung-Hwa Chung, Cello
Myung-Hwun Chung, Piano
Program: Two works from Beethoven and Dvorak's "Dumky"

Wednesday, December 2, 8:00pm
Yo-Yo Ma, Cellist
Program to be announced
From: hsiacc@ocf.berkeley.edu (Andy Chuan-Chih Hsia)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rousseau
Date: 7 Sep 1992 23:53:30 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep7.125638.20667@bristol.ac.uk> plcdib@bristol.ac.uk (C D I Bertram) writes:
>Does anyone out there know if the opera Le Devin du Village
>by Jean Jacques Rousseau has been recorded? Is it available
>on CD?
>
>Chris Bertram <C.Bertram@bristol.ac.uk>

I have heard the opera on LP.  The only three I can find are
Ang.35421(Angel), Arn90801(Arion) and MHS1985(Musical Heritage Society).
You can contact the studios for more information.  I didn't find any on CD.

Andy
-- 
*****************************************************************************
|    Internet:   hsiacc@ocf.berkeley.edu                                    |
*    University of California, Berkeley                                     *
+___________________________________________________________________________+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: L'Incoronazione de Poppea
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:01:47 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<BuCDqz.1Lr@news.udel.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:39:05 CDT

Jon Conrad writes:

   Harnoncourt is quite good, but be careful that you're dealing with his
   FIRST recording.  He made two, and the second (it went with a Ponnelle
   tv production) is a butchered edition and a far inferior performance.
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By "butchered" do you only mean shortened?  Isn't some tightening up of
those early operas legitimate?  Some are many hours long, but not all
that time is filled with the kind of material we're accustomed to in
opera.  I've read that it was quite acceptable in that era to socialize
during the long stretches between highlights.  Britten's edition of
Purcell's Fairy Queen and the short version of Poppea (Raymond Leppard?)
are enjoyable recordings.  I'm not enough of a purist to object.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: gds@LA.TIS.COM (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: voice training and sinus conditions
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:21:09 GMT
Organization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc., Los Angeles, CA

In article <46976@dscatl.UUCP> Mark Gresham writes:
>I wrote:
>>[about how my voice teacher thinks I may have a deviated septum or
>>some other kind of sinus problem, because I do not get much
>>resonance when switching to the head voice]
>Did she look up your nose or something?  What makes her come to
>the conclusion of a deviated septum?  As for a sinus condition or
>etc. thingys like it, you'd probably have had reason to know that
>before taking lessons, for sure.

She's given me this exercise: 1-3-5-8-10-12-11-9-7-5-4-2-1
sung on aa, ga, nya (as in back), ee, nee, goo, guh, and tongue
trills, in ascending half steps.  I have trouble passing into (and out
of) the upper register, depending on the vowel.  (aa gives me a lot of
trouble)  More specifically, I don't get as much resonance when I have
just passed into the upper register as when I'm singing strictly in
the lower or upper registers several steps away from my voice break.
I cannot feel the "buzzing" in my nose very strongly, consistently.
According to her, I should feel a stronger "buzzing".  She says that
is a possible indication of a sinus condition.

I tend to be more congested than most people I know.  I have runny
noses more often than other people I know, and I tend to clear my
throat a lot.  (No doubt part of that is due to the LA air.)  I also
have some allergies, but they are sufficiently mild that I don't need
shots.  (I used to get shots when I was a kid.)  I think I may have a
mild sinus condition.

>I wonder if she sends all her students to the same ENT specialist.
>IF she has suggested one, get a different one's opinion.

I don't know whether or not she has an ENT.  I was planning to see
someone at the UCLA medical center, the next time I get a full
checkup.

>If you are talking about your "break" (and "elmininating" it (???))
>the most common cause of lack of progress is a stressful
>technique.  I had problems with that too...found the problem was
>the teacher.  Other people put me on the right track; solved the
>problem, one that was not medical at all.  I would be VERY
>suspicious when a teacher blames lack of vocal progress
>on a medical condition like a deviated septum (without
>looking up your nose.:-)).

Well, I don't think my teacher is uninformed on this subject.  She is
a Berklee graduate and a Seth Riggs associate with over 10 years of
experience.  I don't think I have a deviated septum but I probably
have a mild sinus condition which affects that aspect of my singing.
My teacher said that in her experience, voice break problems also come
from the shape of people's nasal cavities.

Another person replied to me in email that he had similar problems and
thought they might be due to sinus conditions.

--gregbo
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 08:36:53 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Korngold
 <1992Sep2.180017.15220@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
 <CB.92Sep2164438@tamarack13.timbuk>
 <1992Sep3.100601.14416@ifi.unizh.ch>,<CB.92Sep3111810@tamarack13.timbuk>
 <1992Sep7.232438.15103@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu>
 <CB.92Sep8124257@tamarack13.timbuk>

RE Chris's inquiry for anyone who's seen _Magic Fire._  I saw an excerpt
one day switching channels, and it was so laughable that I didn't watch
the rest of it.  In the scene, the characer playing Wagner was sitting
in a lush studio at a grand piano (okay, accurate enough) -- he was
playing what I recall was a C major scale, or similar white note noodling.
From this, he "happened" upon the Tristan chord.  A look of inspired delight
crosses his face!  He writes it down on his huge score paper.  He returns
to the piano.  Continues the progression (I'm really excited -- can you
tell?).  Writes it down.  A pause.  He draws a fresh piece of score paper out.
We see a closeup of his hand writing on it, "Tristan and Isolde."

I didn't hear any Korngold music, so can't comment here about that.
Next time it comes on at 3 a.m., I'll be sure to tape it.

Bob
From: dcoder@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: violists
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:50:46 GMT
Reply-To: dave@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington

In article <gegB_HG00awU83KEgy@andrew.cmu.edu>  writes:
Does anyone know the difference between a Viola and an Onion?
A. Well, nobody cries when you cut up a Viola.

How about this.  What's the difference between a Viola Solo and pissing
in your pants????

A. You don't get that warm feeling during a Viola Solo!!!!!


What's the range of the viola?

A. It depends on whether it's tossed or kicked.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Du Pre recital
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:25:51 GMT

In article <DBROOKS.92Sep13231123@penge.osf.org>, dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:
> 
> > Yes, I am yet another member of the generation of Jaqueline Du Pre
> > worshippers.
> 
> Rephrase, please.  You are a member of another generation of worshippers.
> There were those among us 25 years ago or so who were ready to kill Stephen
> Bishop.

Well, David, you and I are of approximately the same generation
(although I was not really a "worshipper"), but I missed something
here. What is Stephen Bishop (as he then was) supposed to have done?
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 6 (was Re: Du Pre recital)
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:03:48 GMT
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada

In article <1992Sep14.172951.6628@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
smith@CS.Stanford.EDU (Jeremy Smith) writes:
[....]
>WHAT!?!? No BERSTEIN??? 
>
>Any group of the best performances of Mahler's 6th
>Symphony must include Bernstein's most recent recording with the
>Vienna Philharmonic.  I am not the only person who will tell you
>this, so there's no need to say much more.  The timbres achieved in
>this recording are a credit to Mahler's orchestrtion genius. 

So are his tempi less extreme than the 1966 NYPO version? I have to
hear the VPO version but am unwilling to spend the cash on seomthing
which might be as o{ut-of-court - as far as I'm concerned - as his
previous version because of the tempi. The outer movements marches are
really *too* fast.

may I put in a word for the long out of print NPO/Barbirolli? I think
he digs deeper into the despair than anyone else *I've* ever heard. I
heard him do it live and I heard Szell. Szell was bloody good, but
Barbirolli was bloody *great*.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical