From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc,comp.mail.uucp
Subject: Re: Mixed format addresses
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:32:45 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
NNTP-Posting-Host: skyking.oce.orst.edu

In article <CKD.92Dec13173427@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>BF> == fenner@postscript.cs.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) writes:
>JS> == John Stanley <stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU>

>But if they *do* want to look like part of the Internet, they should
>do so, instead of whining about how Internet sites "must" support pathalias
>and the .UUCP hack.

I have seen nobody "whining" about how Internet sites "must" do anything.

> BF> database, you can be easily in charge of your little section, as
>
> JS> I can be in charge of my "little section" of the DNS? Really? From a
> JS> UUCP site? Just what protocol do YOU know of that will allow a UUCP
> JS> site to change the DNS records for its MX site? 
>
>Email, or telephone.  

Neither of these puts me in charge of my little section of the DNS. They
put me in contact with someone else, who is in charge of my little
section. Not the same thing.

>Or even having an account on your DNS server's
>machine so you can make the updates yourself.  

Oh boy, an account where I can access system files and make changes.
Internet admins who give priveleged accounts to their UUCP connections
are asking for trouble. And the first place they will see it is in their
DNS records when UUCP-user forgets to update the serial number or puts a
goofy date in the file. Or when two UUCP-users try to update the same
file at the same time.

> JS> With the DNS, it is easy to poke incorrect data into the database and
> JS> *poof* EVERYONE is using bogus data. 
>
>And pretty soon you notice that EVERYONE is failing to get you mail, 

Pretty soon? This implies that I know that someone else sent me mail,
and I am not quite sure how I am supposed to know that unless the mail
gets through to tell me that.

>someone called your Zone Contact and told them to fix the zone.  

If you really think that Joe Internet User even knows there is a Zone
Contact, much less would call him when his mail doesn't get through, you
are wrong. 

>If only
>30% of the UUCP map people can't get you mail, you may never notice.

And if 100% of the Internet can't get me mail, I may never notice.
Or it will take a while, perhaps.

> BF> Using the DNS, I have no need to store any information about anyone on
> BF> my computer; I can just look it up.
>
> JS> And just, pray tell, if you keep no information about anyone in your
> JS> computer, who do you talk to to look it up?
>
>The root name servers are not "about anyone".

Sigh. You must keep something that tells you who a root nameserver is.
That is, indeed, keeping some information about someone.

> BF> Using the UUCP maps, I have to keep 6.7 megs of map files, and a 1.6
> BF> meg (33k line) paths file.  Which seems like the more desirable
> BF> system?
>
> JS> Or you keep a <30 character name of a site that will gateway traffic.
> JS> That sounds most desirable.
>
>And *they* keep the maps and path files.  

Yes. 

>At least until *they* get tired
>of doing it, and find another "smarthost".  Who gets sick of routing, and...

I haven't seen the list of gateways change in a long time.

>Every site that *does routing* with the UUCP maps has to keep them around.

The complaint was that "I" have to keep them around. "YOU" don't. 

>With the DNS, sites can do routing without keeping the entire DNS on their
>local disk (or even local net).

And sites can do routing without keeping the entire UUCP maps on their
local disk, or even local net.

> JS> To do that reliably requires one MX record for every UUCP site.
>
>It does?  You've never heard of wildcard MX records, I see.

Yes, I have heard of wildcards. I have one. Change the "one" to "an",
if you wish.  It is still not a reasonable expectation for every UUCP
site to have an MX record, whether it is its own or part of a
wildcard.
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