HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio

Kerry Shetlinewrites:
>
>In article <3340369@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk
>Lindstrom) wrote:
>> 2)  Those that believe bits r bits are naive.
>
>Those that conveniently forget that the 'bits r bits' argument naturally
>includes the parts of digital technology that are there to insure bit
>integrity (i.e. not in badly designed equipment) are being (perhaps
>deliberately) obtuse. If you still think that some subtlety can sneak
>through a correctly decoded bitstream, past all of the Schmitt triggers and
>clocked buffers, without (as is intended) crushing any impudent bits hopes
>of being slightly different from its Boolean brethren, then you are the one
>being naive.
>
>So try and cope with the full 'bits r bits' argument, not some silly parody
>of it, and see if you've still got something useful to say.
>
>-Kerry
>----------
HUH?
Have you read ANY of the references posted the past few weeks?
Have you LISTENED to a SINGLE CD player where all that was changed was
the Versatil Link (HP) where one had more "systematic jitter" than the
other?  I have and it is noticable with even a $400, 1987 technology
player.
Have you listened to CD players with coax and TOSLINK interfaces and
compared the two?

If not, I won't bother wasting my time argueing with your religion.

Kirk out
=> "We are what we pretend to be."  -  Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kirk Lindstrom - OCD Product R & D | Hewlett-Packard Co.  M/S: 91UA |
|   Engineer/Scientist, Hardware     |                                |
|------------------------------------| Optical Communication Division |
|     kirk_lindstrom@sj.hp.com       |                                |
|    Kirk Lindstrom / HP0100/UX      | 370 W. Trimble Rd.             |
| ph 408 435 6404 | fax 408 435 6286 | San Jose, CA  95131-1096       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: herb@sybase.com (Herb Lison)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Nakamichi 700 Cassette Deck replacement
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:28:57 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

I purchased a Nakamachi 700 deck a very long time ago, in the mid-70's,
and used it to tape a large record collection.  I was always very 
pleased with the deck and the tapes it made.  Sad to say, a thief made
off with all of my equipment and I must now replace it.  I've made
the round of the various stores with tapes and have been unable to find
an equipment combination that makes my tapes sound as good as the old
equipment did.

I suspect this is because the cassette decks in the stores are not as
good as the machine I had.  I could be wrong about this, but a friend
of mine has another Nakamachi 700 and the tapes sound just fine with
his equipment.

In any case,  do you hard-core audiophiles have any advice on this subject.
Are there newer cassette decks that will play these tapes of mine with
comparable quality to the Nakamichi 700?

Thanks in advance,

Herb Lison
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:31:49 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <C0DCtn.4vL@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes:

>Rise and fall times have to do with TRANSISTORS, NOT CABLES!!!!
>
   Go measure a LAN at the transmitter....measure it again at the
   far end of the max cable.  Write a 1,000 word thesis that
   explains the difference in rise times at the transmitter and
   receiver being due to all the transistors in the cable.

>
>If you stay within the specs of the respective lan's topology, you
>should be getting error-free transmissions 99.99999% of the time. Collisions
>are another story, and aren't effected by cabling (I have installed my
>fair share of LANs). 
>
   People and vendors push limits.  Just like engineers and
   implementors everywhere.

   Some do it on purpose to gain a performance advantage, others do
   it thru lack of experience or thought.

>
>In this case, we were refering to a 1meter long coax cable.  There is
>nothing short of an EF-111 (electronic countermeasures aircraft) in
>the garage that going to screw up bits on a coax at less than 1megabits
>per second (which CD is).
>
   Allow me to play with that cable a few minutes, OK, then get
   ready to wager some serious money within your loss budget.  

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: porsche@cv.hp.com (John Milton)
Subject: Re: Sennheiser Corp
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:55:38 GMT

Glenn Clatworthy (GCLATWORTHY@PBS.ORG) wrote:
> Does anyone have current contact information for the Sennheiser Corp? 
> Thanks!

You should be able to contact them at the following phone number:

	(203) 434-9190

I ordered some replacment headphone pads from them about 2 months ago.

> 
> ********************************************************************
>  Glenn Clatworthy                                                          
>    Public Broadcasting Service
>  (703) 739-5248                                                            
>    PBS Program Data & Analysis
>  GCLATWORTHY@PBS.ORG
> ********************************************************************

John Milton
porsche@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: What is a good (low) price for Vandersteen's 2Ce ?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:16:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hello,
     I think I can offer some advice on this one. My neigbor
is looking to buy these very same speakers. He can't decide
between the Vandersteens or the paradigm studio monitor at
an extra $300.
 
The store he is shopping at: "Ohio Sound" on Brittain Rd.
in Akron, Ohio gave him a price of $969 for the pair.
He counter offered $900, and they told him to "check back"
He will probably grab-em at $969.  Of course he also bought an
amp and pre-amp from the same store in the last year. that might
make a difference.
 
also, northeast Ohio is lucky to have some of the more reasonable
high-end prices in the country (certainly not as good as NY or
SF)
Also New CD's sell around here for $11.99 - $12.99 for the
'good stuff'
 
record stores sell blank cassettes at below mail-order prices.
this may bias the estimate somewhat.
hope this helps.
  
n.e.d.
p.s. National chain record stores are still a rip-off around
     here but there are hoards of private stores that are 'cheap'
From: cl400@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Timothy Grall)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Home Theater HELP
Date: 10 Jan 1993 04:08:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am buying a new house soon and I'd like to step up to a larger
TV and a decent stereo receiver.  My questions are numerous as
I'm thinking of setting up (some sort of) a home theater system.
I have a CD player, 2 speakers, tape deck, and EQ.  What I need
is a new receiver, TV, VCR, and extra speakers.  Considering
the receiver, would Dolby surround be a good choice?  I've seen
some with DSP (digital signal processing), but don't know the
real advantages of this.  Concerning the VCR, what are the 
advantages of a HI-FI VCR, and would it be needed with a 
surround receiver?  As for the TV, would it need to be capable
of stereo sound internally, or could it just require A/V jacks?
Finally for speakers, my 15-inch are in good shape, so if I
went with a Dolby surround setup, I assume I would just need
two more and then one extra one.
 
I would appreciate any help or suggestions you might have for
me, or recommendations of what good equipment is currently
available for an affordable home theater system.
From: cmh@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.M. Hicks)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Clipping questions
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:46:11 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

cal@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Cal Lott) writes:

>	The amplifier driving the speakers is an *awful* Fisher
>100-watt (RMS into 8 ohms, 20-20khz, <0.08% THD) integrated amp. The
>Polks have an average impedance of 6-8 ohms. (I'm not exactly sure
>which, but it is not a particularly difficult speaker to drive in
>terms of impedance.) Maximum power handling is rated conservatively
>at 125 watts. (The Polks were demonstrated in the store with an
>Adcom GFA-555II 200wpc amp at an extremely high volume, and they never
>showed a hint of strain.)

>	So what is causing my sister's system to clip, folks? Any
>ideas would be appreciated. It's not a real problem-- just something
>that I am curious about.

My guess is the amplifier power supply - it's expensive to provide a good,
hefty power supply, and easy to leave it out - the thing still sounds OK (ish)
with seneitive speakers at low volumes, but soon runs out of juice with loud
bass.

Christopher Hicks
--
 ==============================================================================
 Christopher Hicks    |    If it doesn't fit...
 cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng    |                        ...you need a bigger hammer.
 ==============================================================================
From: gmaltby@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Gavin Maltby)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Losing My Religion (Was...many times tangentially removed)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:00:35 GMT
Organization: University of Natal, Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc047.cc.unp.ac.za

In article <shetline-100193102612@128.89.19.68> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:

>In article <3340372@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk
>Lindstrom) wrote:
>> HUH?
>> Have you read ANY of the references posted the past few weeks?
>> Have you LISTENED to a SINGLE CD player where all that was changed was
>> the Versatil Link (HP) where one had more "systematic jitter" than the
>> other?  I have and it is noticable with even a $400, 1987 technology
>> player.
>> Have you listened to CD players with coax and TOSLINK interfaces and
>> compared the two?

>Yes I have. And about the only room for improvement-by-cable that I can
etc, etc.

My Wadia X32/3200 combination CD player supports all the interfaces.
I started with the coax link.  I paid a fair bit for that high quality
coax.  At the time the DAC had toslink receiver electronics installed,
in addition to the coax link.  Comparing the two gave no conclusive
evidence, even in a rather revealing system.  I could not justify the
expense, really.  A friend with the same CD had the AT&T receiver
electronics installed, and we did a comparison.  With the transport
next to the rest of the system things were better, but not massively
so.  Then we removed the transport to the next room (using the 6m
optical cable).  The difference was amazing, as though we'd changed
some major component.  I have since installed the AT&T stuff on my
DAC, and have similar results.  It seems that the biggest, and definitely
worthwhile, difference was getting the transport out of an area where
it could be vibrated.

Something to think about?

Gavin


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington)
Subject: Re: Headphone Reccomendations
Reply-To: kam@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UTD-CV Corvallis, OR
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:30:38 GMT


In article (Ryan Martin Grant) writes:

> Thanks to everyone who posted.  I've already got the headphones now,
> but I relied heavily on the recommendations.  Sony appears to have
> discontinued the MDR-V6, and replaced it with the MDR-V600 which I've
> heard is heavier and doesn't look like it folds up.  I also heard from
> a questionable source that the new ones definitley don't sound as
> good.  Anyway I went out and found a leftover pair of V6's and like
> them very much.

Too bad.  You are quite wrong about the V600's.  They are lighter,
sound better and fold up.  All at about the same price.  You should
have found a pair and tried them yourself.  You would have chosen the
600's I'll bet.  Not to disparage the V6's, since they are quite good
too.  But the 600's are a step forward.

> I was sort of pressed for time returning to college, and didn't get to
> hear the AKG or Senheiser models, but I think given my needs, it
> sounded like the Sony's filled them best.

Well, I haven't tried the AKG's, but I was quite unimpressed with
every pair of Senn's that I tried.  Some in the $75 range were actually
lousy!  

> Once again, Thanks Everybody!
> - Ryan Grant

Keith
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:44:27 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan4.215906.29420@news.ysu.edu> joe@avs.com (Joe Peterson) writes:
>Maybe I'm missing something, but I cannot figure out how different digital
>cables can sound different.  I can imagine that a poorly shielded cable
>could cause interference, or a badly impedence-matched one could distort
>the square wave, but: it's carrying bits!  As long as a zero is a zero
>and a one is a one, how can the DAC get confused?  Can a cable add jitter?

    In the REAL world there is absolutely no such thing as a perfect
    1 and a perfect 0.  What is real is that there are defined
    boundaries for transmitters AND receivers such that a 1 is
    beyond a certain threshhold and a 0 is not.  There are also
    specifications for rise and fall times as well as maximum
    jitter.  

    If you believe cables can't add jitter, please oh please
    don't ever install a LAN.....


>If I were to load the digital info into a computer instead of a DAC, and
>there were no errors, I would have an exact duplicate of the digital music
>samples in the computer's memory.  Unless the cable is really bad and
>causes errors/jitter, how can it matter?
>
   If the data on the cable has a data integrity in its protocol
   with FULL error recovery and re-transmission, you can absolutely
   guarantee that any arbitrary DATA (and thus music, video, etc.)
   pattern can be reliably sent and received in the presence of
   jitter and other forms of noise.

   If the protocol on the cable lacks error recovery and
   retransmission capability, then you must be sure to specify the
   maximum allowable noise (which would include jitter) within which
   a given signalling scheme and bit rate will operate at 100% data
   integrity.  

   Stay within the envelope and you get 100%.....

   I don't believe the digital audio standards include a
   retransmission scheme as a Token Ring, etc. do....
   but if you put the music bits INSIDE a decent protocol......
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Radio Shack garbage
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:38:28 PST
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <726278964.AA00096@ship.wimsey.bc.ca>, Matt.Ion@p106.f7040.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Matt Ion) writes:
> Great, the first message I get in the newly-hooked-in Usenet areas, and it's
> the same argument that's been going on in Fido AUDIO for the past few weeks
> -namely, "Radio Scrap".

Hey, we're just trying to make you feel at home. 

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
From: allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:33:04 GMT
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.audio

lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <11900013@hpmwnpd2.sr.hp.com> allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstrong) writes:
>>
>>And even if you still believe you need a $300 cable, I ask you this:
>>What kind of cables are used inside the transport and D/A to connect
>>between the connector on the back panel and the circuit board? Are they
>>$300 cables? If not, the "quality" of the system will be limited by them
>>and not by your $300 wonder cable.
>>
>   Well in the first place, prove I said anything about needing
>   "$300 cables" or stick your posting where it belongs.

Huh? Perhaps YOU can tell me where it belongs?

>Straw man
>   arguments are nice, but in this case you've built it with more
>   than a bit of barnyard contamination.

Don't you think you're off on a tangent here?

I sure hope that "barnyard contamination" isn't involved here as I am
not an environmental engineer by trade and wouldn't know how to clean it
up. Last I knew, we were talking about why inexpensive cables degrade
the sound of CD players, not about soiled hay.

>   However, in the event you never read the audio press or this
>   newsgroup, there have been tests of CD players with and without
>   external DAC's.  In SOME of those tests the external DAC
>   combination resulted in a high frequency roll-off that was easily
>   measured (graphs and all in the Audio article).  There was no
>   question but that the external DAC was superior to the internal
>   one..

You accused me of constructing a straw man argument (which really
puzzled me). Can I now accuse you of conducting a personal attack?

>   And there have been postings by people who MEASURED the doggoned
>   things and HAVE found problems caused by cables.  I can't
>   remember any of those postings (and certainly not mine)
>   advocating $300 cables.  But they DO realize that cables can and
>   do affect sound.   Whether you blame this on TOSLINK, poor
>   construction, poor connectors, or the just the industry standards
>   for the cabling is your opinion.  

I'm saying that I don't understand the mechanism. I'm requesting your
infite wisdom and experience and your ability to explain a complex and
multi-faceted subject clearly and concisely to me so that I too can
understand how and why cables degrade the sound.

So what's the mechanism?

>   And those weren't cheapo CD players or DAC's either....

Does it matter? If so, why?

Respectfully yours,

Allan
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: atkn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (andrew a. nguyen)
Subject: [ CD TECH ] Help required.
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering - University of Melbourne 
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:15:36 GMT

Hi

I have a small problem that I hope maybe someone out there can be of some help.
My CD player (Pioneer PD-5300) is having some hysterics about playing certain
CDs. On some CDs, it has no problem at all whilst on others, it can't find the
tracks at all and has considerable difficulty reading the index track at the
start of the CDs. On some Cds, there is a rustling sound that accompanies 
the music.. and sometimes it makes glitches ( sounds ) as it tries to search
for the start of a certain track. 
As this is a considerable vintage machine, I thought maybe the adjustments
on the CD player needs some re-aligning. I have giving the mechanicals a good
clean and the motors and laser are working fine. On the board of the CD 
I found several potentiometers that I guessed control the playing of the CDs.
However I couldn't make out what these terms means and this is where I need
some help. 
Here are the terms:
                      RFOFS
                      FCSGAN
                      TRKGAN
                      TRKBAN
                      FCSOFS
                      TRKOFS
                      VCORDS

If someone can.. please enlighten me on the meaning of these tech terms I would
be much appreciated. Also , if you can... given me a brief guide as to what
area I should try to adjust to correct the above problem. As it is .. it
(The CD-player) can only play a few CDs... it just falls over itself 
hopelessly for the majority of the CDs I try to play on it.

The intial cause of the problem was that I had bought this CD-player second
hand and it inherited the problem... the original owener wasn't too avantguard
about trying to fix it. 

I would be much appreciative of any suggestions and guidance.

Please reply to me via email : atkn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au 
or via this newsgroup.

Thanks

Andrew ( the perplexed listener )


Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: brown@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.carl.brown)
Subject: Cambridge SoundWorks Surround
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:48:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio

  I am upgrading my TV and am thinking of adding surround sound
at the same time.  I own Emsemble speakers from Cambride
SoundWorks and am quite happy with them, so I was considering
their surround and center speakers.  Has anyone heard/used/bought
these?  I'd appreciate hearing about them or similar systems in
that price range (Pro-logic decoder, surround, and center = $790).
Thanks,
John Carl Brown
From: eilifl@dhhalden.no (EILIF LIEN)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Headphone Reccomendations
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:01:21 GMT
Organization: Ostfold College

In article <1ij514INNqb9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jcm11@po.CWRU.Edu (John C. Mackey) writes:
>From: jcm11@po.CWRU.Edu (John C. Mackey)
>Subject: Re: Headphone Reccomendations
>Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:55:47 GMT
>
>I use a pair of Sony MDR-V6's, and I just love 'em.  They actually sound
>a heck of a lot better than my main speakers (a pair of Bose 301's).

No wonder..... :)   (*good* speakers do always sound better than any
                     headphones (my opinion though))

>I'm curious what others have to recommend.  For $80, I say you can't beat
>this model.

Well, seems hard to beat (haven't heard it though), but try one from AKG, 
like the K-240 which is considered as a classic (don't know if it still 
exists though). Or any other model from AKG (unlike Sony AKG seems to make 
quality products only :). Like the K-260 that I own (price abt. $100-120): 
It is of semi-open (or semi-closed?) type. The frequency response is not DC 
to 30 000 Hz, but you won't miss anything. The bass isn't impressive, but
it's there. The sound is very detailed, pure, clean and open. Well, as I 
said, the sound isn't impressive at first listening, but it grows when you 
listen. In the end you forget that you have those monsters on your head. I 
know they're using it at at least one nice studio here in Norway (as if that 
did matter) which produces some quite nice recordings.

Try that one and the mentioned Sony and good luck!
Eilif Lien             *_/__/__/__/  *_/  __/        __/  *_/__/__/__/
<eilifl@dhhalden.no>  __/           __/  __/        __/  __/
Student at Ostfold   __/__/__/     __/  __/        __/  __/__/__/
College, dept. of   __/           __/  __/        __/  __/
computer science   __/__/__/__/  __/  *_/__/__/  __/  __/
From: rajesh@maruti.ece.cmu.edu (Rajesh H. Zele)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Remote Controlled Machines!
Date: 9 Jan 93 16:02:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: fs7.C0LGK9.H39
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon

Is it true that there is no difference between a base model that comes with
and without remote.. except for the model no written on it. I was looking 
through some CD players in a local audio shop. 
	For example, I tried to control SONY CDP-297 (this one doesn't come 
with remote-control) with the remote control of CDP-397. And amazingly it
worked great. If this one observation is valid for other brandnames also,
then I can extrapolate that one doesn't need to buy remote controlled machine.
Rather buy the one that comes w/o remote and then buy a single remote that
will control all the machines!
	What do u think? 

		Rajesh
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff)
Subject: Reed Music
Followup-To: poster
Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com
Keywords: Reed Music mail order discount 
Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH
Distribution: us
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:20:25 GMT


I am looking for the address or phone number of a music dealer
called Reed Music.  I am told that they are a US company which
sells music mail order at discount prices.

If anyone has their address, phone number, or even City & State,
could they please let me know?  

Thanks!

-- 
Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp.  |  Internet: neidorff@uicc.com
7 Continental Blvd.                 |  Voice   : (US) 603-424-2410
Merrimack, NH  03054-0399 USA       |  FAX     : (US) 603-424-3460