HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cei308@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Jet Girl)
Subject: Re: Cross-Writing (was: Books I Got For Xmas)
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:27:11 GMT

In article <6JAN93.01143238@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>The RABworm writes:
>
>>Heather henderson writes:>
>Yes: maybe *you* can think of more female authors who have written from
>a male point of view.  I'm stuck at three right now, and there must
>be more.
>
>Heather
>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu

Well, occassionally in Jeanette Winterson's novels parts are written from a
male point of view.  Her books are often split - jumping narrators.  In "The
Passion" one of the main narrators is Henri who works for Napoleon...in 
"Sexing The Cherry" the story is almost equally split between Jordan and his
mother, affectionately called the Dog-Woman.   Whether you would class these
as being written from a male point of view I dont know.  I guess it depends
on your view of men, women and the stereotypical views associated.  In
Winterson's latest book, "Written On The Body", the gender of the narrator is
not specified, therefore the reader has to make their own mind up.  Personally
I thought the narrator was male, but...

Oh well...back to the digestive biscuits and "Jane Eyre"...

Joolz 
-- 
 **************************************************************************
 *** "Don't just stand there, lets get to it... *  JOOLZ THE JET GIRL   ***
 ***  Strike a pose, there's nothing to it..."  * cei308@uk.ac.cov.cck  ***
 **************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:02:12 GMT

Two interesting news items in the past two days.  In S. California, a suit
has been filed by a group of low-income parents who are demanding vouchers,
on the grounds that the current system denies their children the education
which is their right.  And in Washington DC, president-elect Clinton has
decided not to enroll his daughter in a public school.  The explanation is
that as a president, he supports the public school system, but as a parent,
he insists on what is best for his daughter.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   Aphorism is better than none.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:26:43 GMT

In article <9JAN93.03010199@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>No, but you have to admit that some traits that are acceptably "masculine"
>are considered by some people (perhaps subconsciously) "unbecoming to a
>woman".

I always have trouble with hypotheses about subconscious
reactions--they're so difficult to test.

>Equality means that women can be assholes as well as men.

One should hope so, in any case. 

>Whatever their motivation, their attacks are alarmingly similar to those
>traditionally leveled by men against assertive women.  If they criticized her
>beliefs or her scholarship, that would be one thing.  When they call her
>egotistical and arrogant, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

I agree entirely.

>I'm not just talking about the r.a.b. reaction, but the reaction I've seen in
>general, including Michiko Kakutani's New York Times review of _Sex, Art, and
>American Culture_.

Well, for what it's worth, I've seen more women attack this book than
men--particularly for the date-rape essay, which some feminists persist in
reading as a justification for rape. (It's not.)


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:51:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.061941.2532@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>In article <JMC.93Jan4235352@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU [Scrooge 
>McDuck] writes:

>>Bah, humbug.  Science graduates write as well as graduates in English,
>>and include far less nonsense in what they write.

Bullshit.  Well, perhaps that's too strong - how about a "you've got to be
kidding - you can't be serious?"

>	Perhaps he simply means that he prefers to read the latter two
>magazines, in which case he should simply say so.  Particularly since, as
>a "science graduate" he doubtlessly writes very well.

As a real scientist who has read innumerable papers and articles (some of
them are cures for insomnia) all I can say is ARG!!!!!!  The state of
scientific writing is not all that great, ask anyone who reviews for some
of these journals.  A friend of mine who does this from time to time was
wondering if he ought to correct for spelling and grammer.  

A couple of courses in basic composition and editing skills would do
wonders. 

Yours in wet fishes and sleezy near misses,

joan


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:44:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.200920.16017@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> callahan@biffvm.cs.jhu.edu (Paul Callahan) writes:
>jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>
>>Bah, humbug.  Science graduates write as well as graduates in English,
>>and include far less nonsense in what they write.  
>
>I hate to contribute to a non-book thread, but I'm curious.  What exactly do
>you mean by "nonsense"?

I suspect John is referring to articles published in PMLA. He may think
that this is the sort of stuff that graduates in English normally write.



--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
Subject: Re: Which Shakespeare works to buy?
Originator: schung@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:28:44 GMT


How about Wells+Taylor (Oxford)?  Is this controversial?
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: lost joyce / byron?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:05:51 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <cass8806.567.726438309@elan.rowan.edu>  
cass8806@elan.rowan.edu (Kyle Cassidy) writes:
> i heard last year a rumor about byron's autobiography not being as  
lost as 
> we had though also heard that a "lost" james joyce book would be  
out by 
> xmas. haven't heard of either since. any word?

The "lost" Joyce book was never lost as such.  It was a series
of early drafts of parts of Finnegans Wake.  Their "discoverer"
presented them as new discovery, even though the Joyce 
community had know about them for years. (They were available
in scholarly journals, for example.)  The discoverer was
roundly criticised by Joyce scholars, and may have dropped the
idea of publishing the stories in book form.


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:35:33 GMT

	I confess that the idea of Cramer browsing in a Christian bookstore
has brightened my day.  Though I do find myself wondering if even there he
finds Liberals Triumphant (but I suspect not).
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:27:58 GMT

In article <8JAN93.14442037@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>But so what?  Male writers, critics, and academics
>have been narcissistic, boastful, arrogant, and egomaniacal for ages.
>Why is it a constant source of comment in Paglia's case?  Ask yourself if
>you'd be so quick to characterize her that way if she were a man.

I would just as quick to do so. Her extravagance in self-praise is the
equal of, say, Norman Mailer's.

>Camille Paglia is about the last person I would accuse of "whining".

Indeed. She's not only no whiner, but she has contempt for those who do
whine.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:42:13 GMT

                                       Wednesday, the 6th of January, 1993

Staci Ann Waldroop writes:
 As a follow-up to my previous post, I just want to add that I just signed onto
 this group and simply responded in turn...in case my comments seemed a little 
 out of touch with the evolving commentary.   Secondly, I would like to qualify
 my opinions with this admission...I am studying to be a teacher.  Perhaps I am
 biased...I would say so except my belief in individual and community respons-
 ibility extend to all areas of my personal philosophy (though they are the 
 strongest in environmental and educational issues).  To those of you whom I
 offended, I apologize...I am just stating my opinion.

Hey, we tend to do that here. State our opinions, I mean.

My own tend to deplore most forms of ``communalism''. 

I will also comment that, though I do intend to homeschool my own,
I may well end up teaching high-school physics within a year
or two (there being few or no other academic jobs, even teaching
positions, for me). No, I do not perceive there to be any contradiction
here.

              Mike Morris
       (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: "Jeeves and Wooster"
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 19:26:01 GMT

Tom Maddox writes:
>>
>>	Also, on an almost unrelated note:  the Guthrie/Fry "Jeeves and
>>Wooster" series on PBS is half done (2 out of 4), and I for one love it--
>>also, would be interested to hear how other r.a.b.ble Wodehouse fanciers
>>respond.
>>

The series is great, although Jeeves IS too young and he mugs too much
and rolls his eyes. I especially like Gussie - "that horrid Spinkbottle".
I thought I'd mention the WORST Wodehouse adaptation I ever saw: an old
movie with Arthur Treacher as Jeeves and William Powell as Bertie.
Treacher was about 6'9" and looked, walked and talked (?) like the
Frankenstein monster. Bertie seemed to be on PCP. Wait a minute - did 
I really see that movie, or I am making this up?

My unrelated note: why is it that the Brits can do such a fantastic
job adapting "Jeeves" (or the old "Forsythe Saga" - best thing I ever 
saw on TV), and then can proceed to absolutely butcher Simenon's 
Maigret. They made the lugubrious detective into a sprightly British 
gentleman, and MMe. Maigret into a svelte beauty. Gendarmes! Au secours!


Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Woosterspeak
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  7 Jan 93 16:33:28 GMT

   The recent interest here on the Jeeves saga prompts me to ask a
question that I've wondered about:  did anyone ever actually talk like
Bertie Wooster?  That is, is his manner of speaking an accurate
depiction of the speech of a certain sort of people in England in the
twenties, or is it an entirely literary creation? 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: The Wall Street Journal (was: 1992 in Review)
Organization: Interleaf
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:47:57 GMT

In article <1ib21iINN52h@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>The WSJ values persons sufficiently that they are line drawn rather than
>photographed. It indicates a contempt for hi-tech that I find
>entirely admirable.

Of course, people of certain political slants could argue that the reason
for the line drawings is either that a number of the subjects cannot be
photographed due to vampiric traits or that there is no soul left for
the camera to steal.

Objbooks: I'd really like to see a collection of the center column page 1
stories.

"He's a bloodsucker, all right, but not the kind we're looking for.  This man
is an I.R.S. agent." --Ham
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:11:16 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1igsouINNgf3@phakt.usc.edu>, rhogan@phakt.usc.edu (Ron Hogan) writes:
> michael bruce macdonald writes:
> >I don't appreciate your calling the details of Foucault's life "sordid" just
> >because he happened to be gay . . . Or are you referring to something else?
> 
> >michael mcdonald
> 
> I was not referring to his homosexuality in general, but the pattern of
> casual sex in bathhouses.  I would have used sordid if he was having sex
> with women in the same pattern of behavior.
> 
> Ron Hogan

The difference is that in a heterosexual, that sort of behavior is
"sordid."  In a homosexual, it's the norm.

                         Homosexual Males           Homosexual Females
                         White  Black               White   Black
                         N=574  N=111               N=227   N=64
    Lifetime number of
    homosexual partners  
      1                      0%      0%              3%      5%
      2                      0       0               9       5
      3-4                    1       2              15      14
      5-9                    2       4              31      30
      10-14                  3       5              16       9
      15-24                  3       6              10      16
      25-49                  8       6               8      11
      50-99                  9      18               5       8
      100-249               15      15               1       2
      250-499               17      11               1       2
      500-999               15      14               0       0
      1000 or more          28      19               0       0

    Proportion of partners
    who were strangers
      None                   1%      5%             62%     56%
      Half or less          20      43              32      38
      More than half        79      51               6       6

    Proportion of partners
    with whom sexual activity
    occurred only once
      None                   1%      4%             38%     41%
      Half or less          29      59              51      55
      More than half        70      38              12       5
    [William H. Masters, Virginia E. Johnson, and Robert C. Kolodny, 
     _Human Sexuality_, 4th ed., (New York, HarperCollins Publishers
     Inc.: 1992), 404]


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Same difference
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 18:40:59 GMT

Francis Muir writes:
	
	PS. It occured to me that Splurge-fforth Smith might like to tackle the
	*PRINCIPIA* for his book of 1993. Now there's a book that no-one ever
	read. 



I saw a first edition "PRINCIPIA" at the Hunington Library in Pasadena,
CA many years ago.  Do you know it was written in some dead language
now remembered only by a handful of aging Catholic priests and many inner
clique r.a.b.ble.  A three year project at least.

In the same museum library was an original Guttenberg Bible.  I was
astonded to discover it was written in German.  Should have been 
obvious, but had never thought about it.

Their first folio Shakespeare's were correctly written in English.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<JMC.93Jan8162455@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> <1993Jan9.031316.23253@eff.org>
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:11:02

In article <1993Jan9.031316.23253@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

   In article <JMC.93Jan8162455@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
   >It seems to me that when someone writes about how people ought to
   >live, how he lives is relevant to evaluating the ideas.  In particular,
   >Rousseau's life is relevant to evaluating his work, and Russell's life
   >is relevant to evaluating that part of his work which concerns how
   >people ought to live.

   If it is relevant, that relevance has nothing to do with logic. There is
   no logical connection between the truth value of a statement and the
   biography of the person who makes it. (There may be a causal connection,
   of course, but that does not help us evaluate the worth of the statement.)

   As Karl Popper comments in CONJECTURES AND REFUTATIONS, "Questions of
   origin are not questions of validity." For a more poetic articulation of
   the same point, see Marko Amnell's selection from "Don Juan."

   >Let us assume that the writers were sincere in their advice.  It says
   >something if they are incapable of living as they advise others to live.

   Does the fact that some priests have been charged with molesting children
   prove that Christianity's prescriptions are worthless, since the priests
   were unable to live according to the doctrines they preached?


   --Mike



   -- 
   Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
   mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
   (617) 864-0665  |                           
   EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 

No, but it would say something if no priests at all lived in accordance
with the doctrines they preach.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tommy Che Vorst)
Subject: Re: Which Shakespeare works to buy?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:49:38 GMT

In <1993Jan5.024812.9111@netcom.com> hole@netcom.com (Will Leland) writes:

>I found three single volumes:
>The Riverside Shakespeare (Houghton Mifflin)
>The Complete Pelican Shakespeare (Viking)
>The Complete Works of Shakespeare 4th ed. (Harper Collins)

>Does anyone have comments on these or others?

As a matter of fact, yes.  I'm a grad student in English, and most of us
around here are agreed that the Riverside is the cream of the crop.  This
is also true of their Complete Chaucer, edited, I believe, by Benson. 

David Bevington recently put out a complete works of WS that is not
exactly getting raves, either.  

As with all collections, read the
explanatory and analytic footnotes with _lots_ of healthy skepticism and
your own common sense.  I've found the Riverside to be relatively
error-free, and very easy to read and handle, as long as you don't try to
go jogging with it under your arm.

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Tommy (aka Guy Gadbois)	                    Grad Studies, UofM
 	        email:  tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca         
	"I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight."
		              - the late, great Graham Chapman
   My opinions are my own, and not those of the UofM.
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Mangled song lyrics
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:31:34 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: rec.music.folk
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

[ from a rec.arts.books thread on misheard song lyrics: I'm moving this to
  rec.music.folk ]
>> Back in high school we had a guy convinced that
>>   I'm Your Venus           (Shocking Blue, I think)
>> was I'm Your Penis and he couldn't figure out how they were playing that 
>> on the radio.

When I was about 9 a New Zealand hit was a song by (I think) Lonnie Donegan
that started
	Wake up, wake up darlin Cory
	what makes you sleep so sound?
	the revenue officers are comin
	to tear your stillhouse down...

Except that I heard the word "stillhouse" as "silk pants" (the rest of the
song made no sense to me at all, as I had no idea about liquor laws in the
US or anywhere else).  In the light of some the creative misreadings we've
had here, I now regret never communicating this to anyone else: it might
have ended up in a singable parody.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hole@netcom.com (Will Leland)
Subject: Which Shakespeare works to buy?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:48:12 GMT

I found three single volumes:
The Riverside Shakespeare (Houghton Mifflin)
The Complete Pelican Shakespeare (Viking)
The Complete Works of Shakespeare 4th ed. (Harper Collins)

Does anyone have comments on these or others?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Dickinson (was Re: Paglia)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 JAN 93 14:54:46 GMT

Sanjiva Prasad writes:

>Maybe I should read La Paglia, after all, to get me to decide to read 
>Dickinson.  A brief encounter with Ms Emily was sufficient to convince me
>that she was bland, mawkish and weak.  Pale, Pale, Pale, beyond the pale of 
>inspiration.  

We used to call her Emily Dickless.  I was indifferent to her poetry when I
first encountered it.  The poems most often taught are the blander ones, I
think.  "Hope is the thing with feathers", "I taste a liquor never brewed",
etc.  And "Because I could not stop for Death/He kindly stopped for me",
which every disruptive high school student knows can be sung to the tune of
"The Yellow Rose of Texas".

To make matters worse, Dickinson has always been portrayed as the precious,
ethereal little spinster, the "Belle of Amherst", retreating into her house
and escaping the world.  Not too exciting.  

But I recently rediscovered her, thanks in large part to Paglia's essay.  I
didn't buy all of Paglia's arguments, but I found out a lot more about
Dickinson than I previously knew (Paglia quotes from poems I hadn't read, as
well as from Dickinson's private letters) and I became more aware of the
harshness of imagery and force of character in her poetry.  I suggest a quick
read of the Paglia essay, then the Joyce Carol Oates essay "Soul at the White
Heat", if you can locate it; then reading Dickinson herself.  She wrote 1,775
poems, and I think many of the most interesting ones are not commonly
anthologized.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books