From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Marvel's untouchable corpses (was re: STARLIN SELLOUT?)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:18:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.142030.24927@njitgw.njit.edu> bxp1628@hertz.njit.edu (Brian Perler) writes:
>
>[Lots of stuff deleted]
>
>This might have been my mistake.  I remember someone mentioning Bucky
>in this thread, and probably thought that's how it originated.  I might
>have been mistaken.

I think you were, in fact, correct.  I came in late on the thread myself.

>And, Bucky has had many more appearances that Uncle Ben.  Most of them
>were in the pre-Marvel days, though, in the original Captain America 
>comics of the '40's.  The rest of his appearances were essentially
>flashbacks (when you get down to it, that's what the entire Invaders
>series was).

I suppose if you count the pre-Marvel days, Bucky had a lot of appearances.
But as it stands, he's actually appeared less than Uncle Ben, who appeared
once in the first appearance of Spider-Man.  All poor Buck has had are
flashback sequences. :(  (This is assuming that, as you say, the Invaders
series counts as flashbacks.)

>Norman Osborne was probably a mistake on my part, as half the time I think
>of him as Norman, and the other half as the Green Goblin.  The Green Goblin
>was a major character, but I don't think Norman was.  Since Norman was the
>Green Goblin, I guess he should be counted as a major character.

It's a matter of semantics.  The line between Norman and the Goblin was pretty
fuzzy anyway, so you could consider either one an extension of the other.

>Gwen and Captain Stacy, as well as the Ancient One, made all their
>appearances before I really got into comics, and were mostly supporting
>cast members.  Since I never saw many issues with them, I find it
>difficult to consider them major.  That's my problem.  Technically, I
>suppose they are major characters, although one might question, say,
>Gwen's importance now that Peter's married to Mary Jane (again, this
>could be my ignorance showing).

Considering Gwen and her memory were a major stumbling block to Peter marrying
MJ, it's fairly important.  I don't think they've played up enough the fact 
that MJ constantly has to compete with someone who's not even alive for Pete's
affections.  But that's entirely IMO.  The reason you haven't seen much of 
these characters is probably because (drum roll).....they're DEAD!:)  How can a
dead person continue to make appearances?  This would require a major
suspension of disbelief, because dead people start *rotting* after awhile...:)
The point is, they're not necessarily germane to today's storylines, but
they were, and probably would _still_ be if they were still alive.

>>So what constitutes a "minor" character?  Number of appearances, importance
>>to the overall story, what?  Seems that at least one of the people I listed
>>should fall under the category of major characters (other than Mar-Vell, 
>>whose rebirth is the source of much speculation and rumor).  I'm just curious
>>to figure out a good definition of "minor".  If it's not having much impact
>>on the story, then that rules out both Gwen and Captain Stacy, as well as
>>the Ancient One and Norman Osborne.  All of them are important in one way or
>>another to the story of the character with which they are associated.  I
>>think a much better example of a "minor" character would be, say, Thunderbolt
>>(from old issues of Power Man/Iron Fist, I think), whom I had never heard of
>>before seeing him in a copy of the OHOTMU.  He appeared only a few times, 
>>then bit the bullet.  (A new version appeared in a recent Hulk annual, I 
>>believe, but that's another matter.)
>
>There is no good definition of a "minor character."  The way I explained
>it above is very biased and completely arbitrary.  Obviously, other
>people will classify these people differently than I did.  Someone who
>read those issues of Spider-Man with Gwen, et. al., will obviously place
>more importance on those characters that I did, since I've only read a 
>few of those stories, and those were mostly in reprints.  Since Marvel
>doesn't make much reference to their previous importance, it's difficult
>for someone (like me) who wasn't around during the time to think of them
>as important characters.  Again, other people will view these characters
>differently.  Who's right?  Probably no one.

Again, you hit the nail on the head.  Any definition of "major" and "minor"
is going to be pretty arbitrary, since different people have different 
opinions about what characters were and still are important.  I've come to
the conclusion that my own definition of "major" is someone whose impact on
a story or character's history lasts more than a hundred issues, or roughly
thereabouts.  Obviously, this includes characters like Bucky, and Uncle Ben,
and even the Ancient One, since they have had major impacts on the lives of
the characters they're associated with.  Cap _still_ mourns Bucky, Spidey
has the occasional "reminiscing about Unca Ben" story, and the Ancient One
is referred to by Doc Strange even today.  Major villains, like most of 
Spidey's rogues gallery, Doc Doom, Kang, Ultron, and Magneto also fit in
this category.  Note that by impact lasting over a hundred issues, I mean
that the character has appeared consistently and affected the story
in some manner multiple times in a span of comics which covers more than
roughly 100 issues, or maybe ten years, whichever is longer. This rules out
characters like the Fabulous Frog-Man, who has appeared once or twice in the
last five years or so and hasn't really done much to add to the overall
storyline the times he has appeared, but Doc Doom definitely qualifies.  Yes,
it's abstract, and it's vague, but I like it, and most of the characters I 
consider "major" fit into this mold.  Newer characters, i.e. those who haven't
appeared for more than ten years or so, are included as long as they have 
appeared fairly frequently and advanced the story in some manner (Venom, for
instance, is a pretty "major" villain where I'm concerned).

There are bound to be exceptions to this, so I'll have to come up with a
better rule later.  If anybody has another definition, please, speak out by
all means.  I'd love to hear it.

The Walrus