HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: name the similarity [game!]
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:25:53 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug17.045516.29802@wam.umd.edu>,
jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
[I've elided George, since his observation doesn't fit my hypothesis.
That's correct scientific method, isn't it?]
> > Nelson Minar writes:
> > >ObDish: What's there in common between Sim Aberson and Robert Coren?
> 
> The letters 'b', 'e', 'r', 'o', and 'n'?
> 
> [I'll leave it to brother Rog to do the clueing.]

Well, yes, Jeff, you're on the right track;
you just needed to get the parts in the right places.
Robert is a RECTOR BONER, and Sim is a MISSA BONER.
Both religiously boning, Sim being slightly more spiritual.

[Also, I notice Sim can be found IN SOME BARS,
while Robert is a BORN ERECTOR.]
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"eclair, n. a cake, long in shape but short in duration, with cream
filling and chocolate or other icing." -- Chambers English Dictionary
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 20 Aug 1992 00:24:05 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug20.002050.3426@microsoft.com> 
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

> Again:  if flamboyant gays didn't act so bizarre, it would be a 
> hell of a lot easier for people on the edge of the closet to step
> across that threshhold.  It is simple human nature to avoid being
> associated with a group of people that stands out for socially 
> negative reasons.  Why do you resist such a basic conclusion 
> as this?

I started reading Eric Marcus's _Making History: The Struggle for
Gay and Lesbian Equal Rights, 1945-1990: An Oral History (NY:
Harper Collins, 1992) today.  Based on what I've read so far,
I can recommend it wholeheartedly.  (ObNelson -- you should read
it for the interviews with the GLF and GAA people.)  Anyway,
one of the people interviewed is the flinty Jim Kepner.  He
describes the first Mattachine Society meeting he went to --
in *1952* -- this way:

  The announced topic was, "What do we do with these effeminate
  queens and these stalking butches who are giving us a bad name?"
  It was a lively discussion, but it seemed to me that the ones
  at this meeting who were most worried about the problem 
  happened to be the effeminate queens and stalking butches.

  It took me a while to speak up.  I was pretty shy, but I finally
  blurted out this story about the first time I went to a gay
  bar in the late spring of 1943.  It was the Black Cat bar in
  San Francisco....

  [He arrives at the bar excited at the prospect of finally being 
  with lots of other gay people, only to come upon a police raid 
  in progress.]

  The first view I got of my brothers and sisters was when 12 or 
  15 drag queens and about 12 or 15 butch numbers -- men who would 
  be called San Francisco clones today -- were led out of the bar 
  by the police.  All the clones were looking guilty, and practically 
  all the queens were struggling and sassing the cops.  I felt so
  good when I heard one of the queens scream at the policeman who
  was shoving her, "Don't shove, you bastard, or I'll bite your
  fuckin' balls off."  That queen paid in blood....

  When I finished this story I said, "Look, the queens were the only
  ones who ever fought.  If not for the queens, there wouldn't have
  been bars that the rest of us could sneak into....They're our
  front line.  And they're not the ones who cause prejudice.  People
  are much more upset when they find out that their neighbor or
  friend who wasn't obvious is, in fact, gay."  I think that causes
  a lot more prejudice than some obvious queen.  People can relate
  to the queens in the same way they relate to Stepin Fetchit.

Need I point out how Kepner's little story illuminates *much* of
what's been going on recently in this thread and others?

Arne
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OR:9 Supporter Sighting
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:07:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.xvgy!dk

klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:

>As I arrived at the bus stop this morning, I saw my first "Yes on 9." :-(
>A middle-aged man across the street had painted this in large letters on
>the back of his short-sleeve oxford-cloth shirt (it wasn't even tucked in
>and he had terrible posture - these bigots have no sense of *style* ;-> ). 
So did you go and ask him what the ^(*&^( he was doing with that on his shirt?
I might have chosen the coy approach. ``What does "No on 9" mean?'' and then
read him with fire and disgust when you "discover" he's a homophobe!

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"After abortion, birth control is next." -former President of NJ Right To Life
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal)
Subject: Re: Goodbye to Rob
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:24:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.004316.15560@athena.mit.edu> max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos) writes:
>if one recites 
>the mantra one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand or one hundred 
>thousand times with loving compassion ... within seven days,
>inevitably, he will be liberated from the lower realms and be
>reborn in a happy realm..."
>
>referring to the Mantra Purifying the Karmic Obscurations:
>
>namo ratna trayaya, om kamkani kamkani, rotzani rotzani,
>tortani tortani, trasani trasani, partihana partihana, 
>sarwa karma param parani me sarwa sato nam soha
>
>Consider it said a bazillion times for Rob.  I'm sorry he died.

From my limited understanding of the subject, I suspect that the transmission
or the mantra to each of our machines qualifies as a recitation (and now I've
just doubled it...)

I already miss Rob.  One thing we joked about together was how we shared
having our family names be victimized by Ellis Island.  Rob's name was
transformed into Italian, mine transformed from Italian.  We wondered if it
would be possible to find other people to form a complete cycle.

Rob was a dear, sweet man, and I will never forget him.

   -paul asente
     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay bull
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:04:31 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <15697@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>:Daan Sandee writes:
>[obnoxious Dutch]
>:Poor FJ!!, his dreams of posting to motss in the least-seen language
>:crushed.
>
>I could always learn Swahili.

It may not be common on motss, but a lot of people speak it
since it is the lingua franca of Africa. When I took a class
in C programming, the instructor, who was trying to teach it
to a bunch of people who had only previously seen BASIC, said
something like "I know this looks like Swahili now, but it will
make sense soon." An African student got a kind of puzzled look
on his face, held up his hand, and said "But Swahili's not very
hard?!" It was a while before the class could proceed....

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: harvey@warbler.princeton.edu (Harvey Cohen)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Organization: Geology Dept., Princeton Univ.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:10:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.153314.24649@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu
(Melinda Shore) writes:
>
>I find it absolutely astonishing that any gay, lesbian,
>or bisexual person could even consider being a member of
>the Republican Party.  The party has taken an unequivocal
>stand against equal rights for all of us (and that 
>includes His Royal Butchness, Boob Sarver).  Do any of
>us really believe that we're not entitled to equal
>treatment under the law?
>-- 


Every time I hear the phrase "gay republican" I think back upon an acquaintance
in Washington D.C. (in the mid- to late 1980s) who labelled himself under that
rubric; and I *shudder*.  This wasn't just a man who felt that republican
economic ideas were better than democratic economic ideas, this was a man who
worked with the administration, was appointed to his post by none other than
Jesse Helms (!) and was a pal of Terry Dolan.
	I remember with horror, how tickled and pleased he was that Terry Dolan
actually had two memorial services, a straight one and a gay one.
	The mind reels at how deeply ingrained self-hatred and deep-closetedness can
be.  Oh yeah, one more point.  He converted to catholoicism late in
life.........

One of these days he is going to explode from the contradictions in his life. 
Or at least we can hope so.

harvey
	
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:43:54 GMT


Title says all.
Speech by Ms. Fisher of the Detroit magnate family scheduled between
Wilson's and Mrs. Quayle's presentations.
The New York Times has had several articles explaining Ms. Fischer's
situation in the past few days.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:37:05 GMT


In a previous article, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) says:

>[]
>This morning on the "Today" show, Katy Couric got a young
>gay Republican delegate, Ginny Appuzzo, and the chair of
>the Republican Conservative Coalition (Bob Buzzell?)
>together for a little chat about gay men and lesbians in
>the Republican Party (sorry, all you bisexuals, you really
>don't exist).  The gay Republican said that Bush is actually
>a moderate who has been swayed by the radical Christian
>right minority and that the platform doesn't really reflect
>the views of most Republicans.  He also said, however, that
>the gay delegates got together and decided not to endorse
>Bush.  Ginny Appuzzo made the point that the Republican
>Party is the party of death death death.

[...]

>I find it absolutely astonishing that any gay, lesbian,
>or bisexual person could even consider being a member of
>the Republican Party.  The party has taken an unequivocal
>stand against equal rights for all of us (and that 
>includes His Royal Butchness, Boob Sarver).  Do any of
>us really believe that we're not entitled to equal
>treatment under the law?
>-- 

After the warm, enthusiastic responce given to the speech of 
Pat "Mr. Christian Family Values" Bucchannon, I wouldn't be at
all suprised if all LBG members of the GOP decide to leave a
sinking ship....


>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
>
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@stroke.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: What *IS* "Heaven", anyway?
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:56:21 GMT

Heaven is where dreams come true...

----------- The opinions expressed in this article are solely mine. -----------
<Insert lame attempt at disclaimer humor>
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"Horror?  Steckle, it's ignorance we fear.  Since when did truth and
knowledge become a horror?"

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ferencz@bulky.esys.cwru.edu (Don Ferencz)
Subject: Going to Toronto; looking for info
Organization: Dept of Systems Engineering, CWRU, Cleveland OH
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:26:10 GMT

	My boyfriend and I will be making our summer vacation up to
Toronto this weekend, and I'm looking for any information our travel
agent might not provide...anyone have any favorite bars, restaurants,
etc. (gay or otherwise)?  For economy, we'll be staying at the luxurious
Holiday Inn downtown, but we're planning on getting around quite a bit.

	Thanks in advance for your help...

		-- Don

-- 
       Don Ferencz            | "And in the end/The love you take/
------------------------------|  Is equal to the love/You make."
ferencz@cwsysf.esys.cwru.edu  |    -- The Beatles, "The End," _Abbey_Road_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Public relief (was: Re: More PSU bashing ...)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:10:25 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>ObMotss - my well-meaning but vaguely-clueless straight friend bought
>me a button in San Francisco that said "The family tree ends here". He
>was worried that I'd be upset, being called 'barren', and we relieved
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^
>when I laughed out loud.

oh my!  You laughed so hard you both *relieved*?  You weren't in public
were you?  Did anyone get a picture?

jeff
From: mb33@prism.gatech.edu (Martin H. Brooks)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:52:21 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug11.170458.28120@tandon.com>,
   tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) inquires about queer life in:
> 1) Boise, Idaho (HP's RISC printer controller house)

I have 2 lesbian friends, one from Atlanta, the other from New York City,
who moved to Boise a few years ago.  They enjoyed living there and even
became involved with organizing Boise's first Pride Parade.  In fact, one
of them seemed to have more of a social life there than she had had in
Atlanta; mostly because she discovered that she prefers living in a
smaller city.  The other person was "out" on her job at HP and found her
coworkers to be very accepting; even as far as acknowledging them as a
couple at after hour company events.  They eventually moved elsewhere to
follow a career move, but they still speak highly of the time they lived
in Boise.

Personally, I feel that people have a lot of control over whether or not
they will like living in a new place.  It has a lot to do with attitude.
Of course, even the best of attitudes don't come with a guarantee.

--
Martin Brooks
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Email: mb33@prism.gatech.edu

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:38:03 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



(vanyel)
/And you're doing *so* much better, Bob?  Look at your own statements again,
/like this one:

(me)
>Right.  And the only thing keeping rape victims from coming forward
>is themselves.  Not the bad media press, not the slanted judicial
>system, not the public humiliation, nosiree.  Nothing else; it's their 
>own fault, and what other people do doesn't impact their decision
>one whit.

Christ, you missed it.  Zoom; over your head.

I was trying to illustrate to Arne how other external factors can influence
a person's choice to do a brave or unpopular act.  People tend to examine
their actions, and assess the costs to them.  Sometimes those costs are
imposed by such entities as the press, media, public, and family.
Arne seems to think that someone who is in the closet is their own 
problem; he "has no patience" for them.  

I was trying to point out (unsuccessfully, I guess) how such an assumption 
of every person being an island, uninfluenced by externals, is a total 
fallacy and a deliberate abdication of personal responsibility.



(vanyel)
/It seems you've missed one of the contributing factors: The media,
/in general has a tendency to portray homosexuality--*all* of it--as a Bad
/Thing(tm).  

This is interesting.  I get a mixed signal from the media; sometimes they
portray it as good, other times as bad.  Is your perception that it is
always (or overwhelmingly) bad?
Also:  if the media is giving a bad portrayal, do we do ourselves a
service by playing right into their hands and acting out the negative
things they say about us?


.

>Again:  if flamboyant gays didn't act so bizarre, it would be a 
>hell of a lot easier for people on the edge of the closet to step
>across that threshhold.  

(vanyel)
/That's like suggesting "punkers" make it impossible to like alternative
/music.  

No it isn't.  It's like suggesting that if Mormons wore weird clothes and
rolled around on the floor during church services, that said Mormons would
not be perceived positively.



(vanyel)
/Another example: I've been a little leery of Wicca, particularly after
/reading _Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft_, to find myself
/questioning whether I'd want to be around people who do such "weird" stuff.


I used this very same example.  This VERY SAME EXAMPLE.  Did you see
that post?  If you can use this example, and understand how important
it is for Wiccans to come across as nonthreatening, down-to-earth 
folks, then what prevents you from extending that same principle to
gays?  
Or to put it another way:  if your Wiccan friends had acted out the
negative things that you read in Buckland's book, don't you think you
would probably have backed off from Wicca in a real hurry?  How are
gays who willingly follow negative stereotypes any different?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: I'm leaving  :(
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:45:31 GMT

Richard McKewen writes:
>But, hey, that's OK.  At least I *am* beautiful.

Yes, he is.

>	OK.  So maybe I tend to exaggerate the truth as well.

No, he isn't.


We'll miss you, darlin'.  Be sure to write -- and don't forget to pick
up some cuties for Jess.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Request: Info on GLB-filmfestival organizers
Date: 19 Aug 1992 18:06:22 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug19.183040.4592@ifi.uio.no> 
larsm@ifi.uio.no (Lars Markhus) writes:

> We'll as an intro, this is my demuffinazation on soc.motss.  Hello
> all!  

God dag!  (That's about the extent of my Norwegian, since my
father never spoke it around me, not that he remembered much
of it from when he was a child in a Norwegian-speaking home.)
Do you like tro|nders?  <Bats eyelashes flirtatiously>

>       To those who know me allready, I finally got round to applying
> for an international posting permit from the university, and got one.

Hopla!

Arne, who's *thrilled* that motss now has a *real* Norwegian
movie queen

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Deeper Master!  Take it Bitch!
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: use those words! use 'em!
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:47:56 GMT

i have had some success on occasion with taking cheap porn flick
dialogue over wholesale into real-life sex.  at first it makes
the two (or three or however many) of you hysterical, but after
a few uses the phrases recover their crude power and can be
used, ad libitum, as spicing.

arnold

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: RNC: Buchanan's speech
Organization: Tom's Box of Ahedonia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:00:53 GMT

In <1992Aug18.035856.16336@spdcc.com> anon@spdcc.com (Forwarded Anonymous Posting) writes:

>times have changed, and so must society.  The views of the fundamentalist
>Republican party are out of date and truly do not represent the views of
>the majority of Americans.

Who cares?  As long as they phrase their trash correctly, everyone will
love it and vote for them.

Depressed,
Tom Limoncelli
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
S7/2 b+ g l+ y z- n++ o++ x++ a-- u+ v+ j+   "If English was a good enough
PIG8/5    language for the Lord Jesus Christ, then it's good enough for me!"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: He calls this an introduction?!
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:41:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.155900.11240@infonode.ingr.com> norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>Oooo. Kay. (placatingly) Let's *all* just admit we can be bitches and then
>try to play nicely together.

You called, Jeff?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:40:01 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access

I find the arguments about gay symbols in this thread unusual.
If IM (or whomever) sell freedom rings, pink triangles, or
*whatever*, they do us queers a service, regardless of WHO
makes money at it. 
 
After all, if a het person buys the stuff 'cause he thinks it's
"pretty", who knows what kind of dialogue might come of a GLBO*
person recognizing it?
 
ME: "I noticed the pink triangle on your bag."
HIM: "Yeah. I like it."
ME: "To some people, it symbolizes gay pride."
HIM: "Oh? I didn't know that..." or "Hmmm. I ain't no fag." or
     any number of comments.
 
Gee. Those gay people have symbols? What a concept.
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The oral tradition (was Re: New queer terminology)
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:32:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.041016.1698@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> Nelson, in his innocence states:
>>>    But I don't really understand what it means to be homosexual 
>>>    before 1988.
> 
> And Bob gives very sage advice:
>> Neither do I, not having lived it.  Fiction and history give some
>> insight, as does the oral tradition.
> 
>   And speaking from experience, the oral tradition is far and away
> the best means of Passing the Torch, as it were.
> 
> 		Mike (wondering if there is an anal tradition too)

Of course there is.  The Stonewall riot, for instance, is recorded in the 
anals of history.
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: furry cylinders (was Re: UNGAY GAY)
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:59:47 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>["Height-Weight Proportionate" is] a stupid concept since there is no 
>standard of comparison.  So... let's invent one. ...
>	Waldeaux:
>        30.0 cm/kg   0.08 g/cm^3 (est.)

You know, Bob, as long as we're off on a tangent:  

I dreamt last night that Waldeaux was on my lap, only he had real fur
(rather silky), and he was _moving_.  I gathered he'd been endowed with
artificial intelligence (and, I suppose, with batteries).  I explained
to my cat, Gwydion, also in the room, that Waldeaux was smarter than
he was, even without a brain.

[You tell me.]

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "I had this dream, and in it I was teaching cave people how to use
   blenders and toasters.  Now they're posting to Usenet."  --Nelson Minar
Newsgroups: soc.motss