HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Soi-disant thangs (was Re: New queer terminology)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:45:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.111304.22241@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>As to "thang," I use that word exclusively to refer to the
>male member (le membre soi-disant virile :-), rather than in
>a more general sense as you just did.

Soi-disant?  Shame on you, Jess, unless your 'thang' is capable of
self-definition, in which case I embrace it wholeheartedly.

				Kay

-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Subject: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:45:48 GMT

George Madison and Robert Coren have been discussing the role of 
"types" in determining the sexual attractiveness of others.  Robert 
seems to have much broader criteria than does George and implies
that having his net cast wider leads to greater "possibilities." 
George allows that if you aren't interested they aren't possibilities.
Neither position can be disputed.

My understanding of the situation is that there are fixed preferences 
that we all have, that are not at all rational, and that are 
immutable.  These range from preferring the color ochre to getting hot 
over men with hairy forearms and freckled noses.  Apparently some have
many paraphilias and others, strangely, don't.  Usually, they don't 
have any severe effect on how we live our lives and, at worst, are 
simply looked upon by others as mere eccentricity.  So it would seem 
that trying to debate this issue is futile.  We like what our 
paraphilias tell us to like or, for the males (and with certainty that
the females have a similar technique), we follow the method of
the twink talking to Nick on the stairway in the film "Parting 
Glances": "I look at my dick, and it tells me what it likes." [or 
words to that effect]

Colburn Eigen                  H|u> = E|u>
From: stevenz@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the kiss
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:29:11 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Nntp-Posting-User: stevenz

In article <1992Aug10.214900.10188@osf.org>, coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> I wonder if this, as well as the magic that some of us (me too!) feel
> associated with male-male kissing, comes from the fact that kissing is
> an act that people can and do perform in public, but that *men*
> kissing in public is a relatively rare event in modern Western
> society, and can in fact be dangerous if we're careless about time and
> place.

I mentioned at a discussion group here some time ago that it surprised
me that I was surprised by seeing two men kissing at a gay bar.  I
mean, all of a sudden I just had this nagging feeling that I shouldn't
be surprised, but I kinda was.  I felt like I shouldn't really have
taken note of it at all, but there it was.

One of the other discussants suggested that we see it so rarely, even
in more gay-positive environments, and never see it in the media or in
public public.  Talk turned to overt displays like the lesbian who
spent the night at a hotel with her lover.  When one double bed was
thoroughly messed up and soggy from the evening's activities, they
decided to sleep in the other bed.  In the morning they made up one of
the beds so that the chambermaid wouldn't assume they slept in
different beds just because they were women.

(-; Come to think of it, I have several times of late done a good deed
or two wrt desensitizing other people to male-male kissing in public
(i.e. I have been known to do some serious face-sucking with a recent
ex-stranger in one or two of the bars in town).  Next time any of you
are in Tucson, let me know if you'd like to further the cause. ;-)

Steven

-- 
Steven Zepp           /  (602) 621-6900                 /  B3/0 h f w c
Dept. of Linguistics  /  zepps@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu  /  g(+) k+ sv
Univ. of Arizona      /  stevenz@rvax.arizona.edu       /
Tucson, AZ  85721     /  stevenz@arizvm1.bitnet         /
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Stanford University
	<#-7mta.jfh@netcom.com> <1992Aug17.231434.13126@microsoft.com>
	<1992Aug20.002050.3426@microsoft.com>
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:32:11

In article <1992Aug20.002050.3426@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com
(Bob Sarver) writes:

   It all depends on what is more important to you:  the right
   to act in a bizarre fashion, or political progress & social
   acceptance.

The fallacy of the false dilemma occurs when only two alternatives of
many are presented as choices in an argument.

Mr. Sarver, a hitherto unknown philosophical talent, has refined the
art of false dilemma.  The new and exciting development he adds to the
prior art is the presentation of *the same thing* as though it were
two distinct choices in an argument.

As yet, no practical use has been found for this rhetorical device,
but certain parties from Houston are considering the funding of
further investigations.

- Robert
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Quilt
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 10:28:45 GMT


In article <1992Aug22.050656.9682@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>This is completely off-topic to Rob and what we do in honor of Rob, but
>if, God forbid, I should ever find myself in a situation (6 feet under
>or in an urn) where a quilt panel might be a suitable memorial for me,

Well, I can virtually guarantee you will be six feet under
or in an urn, eventually, quilt or no.

>I swear to haunt the person who suggested it and all those who worked
>on it, and make for them a living hell for the duration.  Especially if
>it has a teddy-bear sewn on it.

I question whether this threat is good karma.  It tempts
people who might think it rather fitting to express a little
fun defiance in the very act of post-mortem respect.
Especially the teddy bear!

>On the other hand, donations to a suitable charity and a performance of
>the Durufle _Requiem_ in my honor will be much appreciated.

Sargon the Rigid has done something for me, which is to make
sure my estate gets used to help lgb people come out less
up-tight than he.  I'd like Britten's "War Requiem" (the
whole thing) for my send-off, please.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: powell@zygot.ati.com (Powell Way)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Rob Bernardo
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:19:33 GMT
Organization: Green Hills and Cows


    I have been reading soc.motss for some time now from my
scbear machine enjoying all of the contributors. But due to lack of
storage I do not have a newsreader so cannot post, but can send
and receive mail. I always enjoyed what Rob said. And one of my
best friends here introduced me to John Higdon and we correspond
by way of e-mail and occasionally telephone. John had told me
that Rob's Mt.Diablo machine is connected through him. I have so
enjoyed reading the posts from Concord, about the farm. I had always
meant to write him and tell him so. Jess, Chuck, Steve and all the
others said it so much better than I can. I am so very sad. I miss
him too.



Powell
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:44:08 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug17.173449.1654@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>I have been soundly rebuked.  I should have known better than to
>take on any sacred cattle in this group.  Arne and Melinda have
>spoken; let all others fall silent.

Son, you have a severe debility the personality.  Are you
family, that is, someone we should try to help get over
their obvious homophobia, or are you one of those straight
homophobes, who are almost never worth the bother?

(Does anyone else at Microsoft know this person?)

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: (A Little) More on Lesbian Reinstated in Australian Army
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:55:31 -0400
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------- Blind-Carbon-Copy

To: gaynet@athena.mit.edu
cc: qn@queernet.org
Subject: (A Little) More on Lesbian Reinstated in Australian Army
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:55:31 -0400
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr>

The Full Text of the MELBOURNE AGE (aug 4) follows:


>From the MELBOURNE AGE, Tuesday 4 August

LESBIAN IS BACK IN THE ARMY

The army has reinstated the lesbian officer whose complaint of discrimination
when she was sacked led to the row over the ban on homosexuals in the Defense
Force.

But the army refused to return the sergeant to her parent unit in Perth and
has instead posted her to headquarters.  The woman refused to comment last
night, citing the Official Secrets Act.  [This is mysterious.  Either it
explains her anonymity, or it hints at possible strong-arming by the Defense
Force.  --ed.]

The woman, sacked after 18 years of service in the reserve and several months
as a full-time officer, had complained to the Human Rights Commission.

This triggered a Defense Force review after which, under pressure from 
Defense Force chiefs, the Defense Minister, Senator Ray, overruled the 
Minister for Defense Science and Personnel [who had ordered the ban 
abolished] and endorsed the ban in late June.

The Attorney-General, Mr Duffy, will ask Cabinet this month to overturn the
ban on the basis that it breaches [Australian Labor] party policy and
Australia's international obligations to stop sexual discrimination.

The move is seen by officials as a tactical ploy to avoid a report by the
Human Rights Commissioner, Mr Brian Burdekin, to Mr Duffy advising of a
breach of international law.  Mr Duffy would have had to table the report
in Parliament.

*********

I have been learning more from the radio show THIS WAY OUT which talked to
some women in Australia by phone and said that the woman's name is NOT
being released and that the issue is supposed to be tabled in Parliament 15
days after the breach of international treaty [Intenational Labour Organisation
has nondiscrimination with respect to sexual orientation and the Australian
Armed Forces is considered a workforce].

- ---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"I might be President by now if it weren't for this 'queer' thing" -Gore Vidal

------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Survey
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <5119@tuegate.tue.nl> <1992Aug19.143744.18352@burrhus.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:49:06 GMT

In article <920818174611_70253.2621_CHC74-1@CompuServe.COM> Chris & Susan
Colvin, 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM writes:
>When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)
Hell
>
>If you were to die today, would you go to heaven?
No
>
>If you were to die today and God asked you, "Why should I let you into my
>heaven?" What would you say?
You son's semen tastes like Nutella (TM).
>
>What is my "agenda" for asking these questions?  Just curious.
Happy to oblige.  Please consider converting to Satanism and
Homosexuality.
>Bye,
>CDC
Drolsi Natas!
Charlie
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:15:28 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) says:

>In article <1992Aug13.042650.7512@news.ysu.edu>, ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes: 
>> Say it was your wife, with young children at home, or your 18 year-old 
>> daughter.  Say they pulled a lower number than you, and got called before
>> you or your 18 year old son.  Is it OK with you then?
>
>AAAAAAAGH!!!!  AAAAAGH!!!  AAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!
>


Read the entire post, Melinda.  I'm illustrating that the draft is wrong, 
regardless of the gender or marital status.  Many people in this country
say "Yes, the draft is OK by me", but when you ask them if it would be ok if
to draft their wives and daughters, they say no.
I have no problem if women wish to serve in combat positions, or in any other
job they wish.  I don't see any difference.  
But only if they volunteer--just like men.  NOT if they are conscripted
against their will.

>[oinker]
Gee, Melinda, you speak pig...is it your native language?
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 14 Aug 1992 16:25:40 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Summary: Our very own ungay gay makes a surprise appearance
Keywords: internalized homophobia, self-loathing

In article <1992Aug14.172347.3647@microsoft.com> 
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
> / I have heard more biased statements from "masculine" men directed toward
> / those they perceive as effeminate or "queeny", then I have heard going the
> / other way.

Bob, it's not considered good form to delete the attribution of 
quoted material.

> Oh, really? Look at what is going on in this thread on Usenet.
>
> This thread (and all the related threads) have been an exercise in
> feminine gays trying to redefine "masculine".  The idea is to stretch the
> definition wide enough to (somehow) include them as well.

First of all, Bob, Usenet is not the world.  Second of all, I really
don't think you have the motives of the "feminine gays" right.

> In the process, of course, they have to slam and tear the normal-acting, 
> masculine gays who need no such redefinition.  In order to create a new
> definition of "masculine", it is first necessary to destroy the old one,
> since the fem. gays can't live up to it.  

"Normal-acting, masculine gays".  Oh dear.  

This paragraph is truly loony.  Fem gays just can't get themselves
together enough to be butch, er, normal-acting and masculine.  In a
snit, they've launched on a concerted effort to redefine "masculinity"
so that they, too, might be called "masculine".

Oh dear.

[...]
> You say that more complaints are directed against queens, than the other
> way around.  I am afraid I fail to see what is wrong with this.  

Oh dear.

> Perhaps is because those individuals who propagate stereotypes make it
> hard for the group as a whole to be accepted.  Of course, as soon as someone
> says something like that, a thousand screaming voices go up "I should be
> accepted for what I am, regardless of how I act".  People may believe
> that, but life doesn't work that way.  Gay pride parades featuring faggots 
> from hell wearing nothing but g-strings are pretty terrifying to the average
> person. 

Have you thought of replying to Richard's Ungay Gay ad?  I think
you two really might hit it off.

> The ultimate question is:  what do you want to accomplish?  Do you want
> your short little hour on stage to strut like a drag queen, 

Yes.

> or do you want 
> to make progress towards gay acceptance?

Yes.

> People have a right to act however they want; I would not support any 
> measure (private or public) to restrict this.  However, the right to act how 
> you please doesn't carry with it an guarantee that you will be respected 
> for how you act.

What in god's name does this have to do with effeminacy and butchitude?

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 16:08:11 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson):
> The proper amount of
> the key ingredient in Souffl'e a la Merde (aka Hot Air
> Sargol) is one small, round, *extremely* hard turd!

...shoved squarely up his ass, without crisco.  gads, it's
the princess and the pea revisited...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:01:54 GMT
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <l933eeINNo1p@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>I don't have air conditioning at home.  Last night at midnight
>it was over 90 in my bedroom.  Can you guess why I'm just a wee 
>bit cranky today?
>
      so you *are* a sweater queen!

      Wayne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: becoming a linguist
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:11:28 GMT

In article <thaaang.713433513@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>Chomsky's on usenet? How cool!

He wasn't, last I heard, but someone in Cambridge was funneling
talk.politics.theory articles or something to him and posting his
responses to the net.  So I suppose he is connected, via sneakernet at
least.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)
Subject: Irony in Homophobia
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:25:23 GMT

A letter to the New York Times, Friday August 16th.

To the Editor:

Re your Aug. 1 news article on the discovery by researchers of a
second anatomical idiosyncrasy in th ebrains of homosexual men:
Doesn't it seem paradoxical to imagine that homosexuality is the
result of nature, rather than adventitious nurture?

Homosexuality elsewhere in the animal kingdom is next to nonexistent,
since failure to reproduce would prevent any genetic component of the
characteristic from being passed on.  Homosexuality in nonhuman
animals is thus limited to mutation.

If homosexual mutation is small in the rest of the animal kingdom, why
would it occur any more frequently among humans?  Nineteenth-century
Shakers believed sexual intercourse was wrong and abstained.  Shaker
villages are now empty.  So how could the proportion of gays be as
high as 5 percent or 10 percent of the population if homosexuality is
genetic?

The obvious answer is that must be the result of adventitious nurture,
because no one is intentionally bringing up children to be homosexual.
But there is a less obvious answer.

Nonhuman homosexuality may well have a genetic component.  If so,
human homosexuality ought equally to be genetic.  Why, then, the
contrast in homosexual frequency between nonhuman and human
populations?  Might it be that heterosexual gazaelles, say, don't urge
homosexual gazelles to take up housekeeping with a member of the
opposite sex?  Heterosexual gazelles leave homosexual gazelles to
their own devices, and the homosexual gazelles die childless.

Human homosexuals, however, are oft convinced to enter monogamous
union with the opposite sex, thus passing on their homosexual genes
and causing the proportion of the homosexuals in the population to be
greater than had nature taken its course.

What an irony: that in promoting heterosexuality among gays,
homophobes are possibly increasing their proportion!

					John Clark
					Aug 3, 1992

-david
Xref: sparky soc.motss:34850 soc.bi:10695
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gay and Lesbian BBS List - August 1992 (REPOST)
Keywords: gay lesbian bi bisexual bbs list alternative lifestyle
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:35:51 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

In <1992Aug12.141009.612@amhux2.amherst.edu>
twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>Gosh, this was crossposted to soc.bi.  I can't imagine why -- the
>compiler has given me every indication that he's not interested in
>serving bisexuals.

I suspect it's just a disagreement over terminology which some consider
inclusive but others don't. I.e., some people use "gay" as a term
inclusive of bisexuality, TV, TS etc. Calling it the "GLBO BBS List"
might solve the problem, by being both inclusive and short ("gay,
lesbian, bisexual, TV, TS..." tends to be a bit of a mouthful).

Certainly it's more inclusive than "gay, lesbian and bisexual BBS list"
which is what I think Tim was looking for. Shame on you, Tim, for
insisting on inclusiveness for bifolk while being willing to exclude
others minorities ;-)


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: futor@llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:30:05 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab.
Originator: futor@diego.llnl.gov


 drogers@riacs.edu (David Christopher Rogers) writes:
>
>At least in the old days the king had to duck spears in the field with
>the rest of them.

Till the spears started coming from both directions!   ;-)

-- 
__
\/  -+-  randy  -+-  all generalizations are flawed  -+-  futor@llnl.gov  -+-