From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What is culture? (was: Brainwashied
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:31:10 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


=> In article <7568@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com 
=> (Bill Lambert- that's me) writes:
=> >
=> >There seems to be some commonality in most cultures (I won't
=> >claim to speak for all):
=> >
=> >	1) An explanation for "Where did we come from?"
=> >	2) A wish for a better life for themselves and
=> >	descendents.
=> >	3) A recipe to achieve 2) above.
=> >	4) An accepted notion of social correctness.
=> >	5) An accepted notion of what constitutes
=> >	public safety and security and how to maintain it.
=> >	6) A definition of what constitutes a family unit,
=> >	an the member's reponsibilities within that family unit.
=> >	7) An commonly accepted attitude about relationships
=> >	to other cultures or peoples.
=> >
=> >(others, I suppose...)
=> >
=> >In accomplishing the above, cultures have made their own peculiar
=> >adaptations. Whether you shake hands, bow, or wave your spear
=> >when you meet is really not so important as the symbol of that
=> >gesture, and the meaning of that symbol within that culture.

In article <1993Jan05.233609.21953@gibdo.engr.washington.edu>, 
tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Tad Perry) writes:
=> Seeing as you've made the claim that it's not valid to judge one
=> culture as being "better" than another, and that attributes which
=> imply "better-ness" are probably due to technology and society, not
=> culture, wouldn't you have to admit that a culture that greets others
=> by bowing or shaking hands is inherently "better" (in that it promotes
=> a universally justifiable good known as Peace) than one that shakes a
=> spear?

No... I certainly wouldn't have to admit that bowing or handshaking
is preferable to shaking a spear, and it just such a cultural bias
that I was talking about as an arifact. In the culture of spear
shakers, shaking one's spear has the same meaning as a handshake, 
Shakespeare (sorry... stop me before I pun again). Moreover,
offering your right hand to shake maybe the supreme insult in that
culture as that hand was probably just used to wipe your ass with.
The signal for the "universally justifiable good" known to you
as Peace is different in each culture. The one that you understand 
is acceptable for you, while you didn't understand the corresponding
symbol presented by Mr. Willyou Shake-spear.

=> To me the answer is clearly yes....

Still?

=> ............................. I'm of the opinion that one culture
=> can be judged as better than another based on that culture's promotion
=> of certain universal truths. And that there are such universal truths.
=> And that they can be discovered and applied by anyone...............

Whose universe? Is it possible that different cultures may derive
different 'universal truths' that may not match yours? In such a
case, who will arbitrate whether one person's truth is better than
another person's truth?

=> .................................................... In my opinion,
=> freedom is one of them.  A culture with traditions limiting freedom
=> (and I'm making no specific claims at this time) is not as good as a
=> culture that doesn't promote freedom. Balancing out all the possible
=> universal truths (I.e. whther to promote safety vs. freedom--a common
=> one in the Japan vs. America debate) is the hard part. But for each
=> component separately, I think you can determine which culture is
=> better than another in terms of that one component only. And, if you
=> could rank the relative merit of each of these truths, it would be
=> possible to objectively state which cultures were better than others.

But if freedom is a universal truth that overrides safety, isn't it just
as valid that safety for some is a universal truth that overrides freedom.
Is safety not another concept for "freedom from harm" and as such another
form of freedom. Nor will freedom as a universal truth buy you a cup of
coffee anywhere in this galaxy until you can define it as more than a word.
Absolute freedom for anyone to do as they damn well please is called
anarchy, and few will opt for that as a form for society. So is what
you want "freedom to choose those that rule me" or "freedom to enslave
any who are less stronger than I" (rhetorical questions of course,
and no assumption on my part of Tad's concept of his universal truth)?
Your concept of freedom is surely definable by your terms and your
assumptions, but will fail to carry those who may live under different
assumptions or other priorities.

Such is life in the Big City, and in Steven Hawkings' universe of
alternate universes there may surely be alternate universal truths.

Sorry.

Even as such, if one may objectively decide merit of one component, 
you are still left with the value of that component relative to other
components and the interactions of those components to each other.
It is these finer points that indeed make cultures unique in
their various incarnations, and such complexity makes it almost
useless to make any objective comparisons of better or worse.
Add in the mystical elements of religion and superstition, 
(perhaps even including Tad's idea of freedom as a universal
truth ?) and the mish-mashed matrix of cultures looks like 1000
recipes for minestrone soup... all the same thing, but all
constructed differently with different ingredients. Which soup
is better? Usually, the one that you make, and usually because
you're sure what's in it.

Actually, I realize what you're getting at by the presentation
of judgement by universal truths. That it could be so! And
yes, I wish that some set of them were easily recognizable by
all. But alas... we seem to be stuck with relativity of
assumptive half-truths while working our way toward the whole
truth. God willing, we may find it, but that's an assumption
of a universal truth on my part that not everyone may agree
with :-) I understand *this* universal truth well.

Interesting discussion. Sometimes I think it's a good idea to
discuss culture in a newsgroup named as such. Thanks for
following up to all who have, and thanks to Tad for more
fuel.

- Bill Lambert
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:13476 soc.culture.korean:7060