HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chyde@pecos.ads.com (Clinton Hyde)
Subject: Re: Is progressive late 20th century classical?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300
	<1992Nov14.215735.2090@Csli.Stanford.EDU> <BxrzL2.M7n@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:09:11 GMT


due to an error on my part, I attended a handful of 'classical'
concerts a few years ago, which mostly featured fairly modern
'classical' music (there were some good pieces too, like Mozart's
Requiem, so it wasn't a total waste). 

this stuff is just not going to stand the test of time.

I don't know what's taught in music classes now, but my impression is
that the classical training one gets derives from the real classics,
and they're mostly the stuff pre-1900. (i like some stuff that dates
post-1900, but not nearly as much of it) thus, the folks who have the
classical training tend to exhibit that in their compositions. 

just because a composer is dead doesn't make him great. look at
Salieri, Mozart's competitor. pretty boring stuff (i've heard some);
he'd probably be totally ignored if not for his prominence in a
certain movie 8 years ago. i'm sure that one can find sheet music
someplace for all sorts of obscure stuff, where the composer is now
almost completely unknown, and likely to stay that way. 


;;Also for some odd reason dead composers like dead poets seem to be
;;taken far more serious than live ones.

writers, painters, too; perhaps ALL 'artistes'. almost, but not quite,
universally true. Picasso was taken seriously while alive. it oftens
seems that most painters and musicians and poets died in poverty,
mostly forgotten by the populace. and then rediscovered later, revived
by fans. if their work stands the test of time...

these endeavors are not easy to make a living at, especially in the
past. 

sometimes the works stand the test of time because someone forces them
to even if they don't deserve it. I can think of books I read when in
grade school which ought to have died in obscurity. most books do, why
were these things exceptions? I've read other stuff from the same
period which were more deserving of being remembered...

it's hard to say what good is, so we shouldn't really lose any of this
work, but one should not be forced to imbibe any of it unwillingly.

drifted off topic, didn't I? 

prog probably continues the traditional classical form, with more
modern instrumentation, but it won't likely be considered 'classical'
for a few centuries at least...

 -- clint
--

Clint Hyde		"Give me a LispM or give me death!" -- anonymous

Advanced Decision Systems/BAH	Internet:  chyde@chesapeake.ads.com
1953 Gallows Rd, Suite 600
Vienna, VA  22182-3934		(703) 902-7130
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: jonsson@well.sf.ca.us (Darrell Jonsson)
Subject: Re: Is progressive late 20th century classical?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:58:14 GMT


re: > What I'm interested in is *why* so many rock groups borrowed materials
which were nearly a hundred years old.

Likely has something to do with the Educational system in Europe and most ot
the U.S. which emphasises 19th century and early 20th century classical
musics.  Also most symphony orchestras do not play post-electronic classical
music.  Also for some odd reason dead composers like dead poets seem to be
taken far more serious than live ones.  Now that Messien is gone perhaps we
will here some overdue reflections/influence of his work.   These are only
general conjectures, as it seems that Berio seemed to have some influence on
the Beatles and Stockhausen had influence on Can and Pink Floyd, Varese on
Zappa and Ornette Colemen on Captain Beefheart.  Regardless these seem to be
almost esoteric exceptions to the rule.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Help.. need opinions on a few groups!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:46:21 GMT
Organization: VMark Software, Inc.

Subject says it all..  I am looking into making a purchase of some more
progressive CDs, and came across these new titles and was wondering if anyone
had ever heard any of these and would like to offer a few brief comments
on them...


Kalaban 		- Don't Panic
Mirthrandir 		- For You The WOmen
Nightwinds 		- untitled
Salamander 		- The 10 Commandments
Spooky Tooth 		- The Mirror
Software 		- Visions
Solstice 		- Silent Dance
Spring 			- untitled
Sinister Street 	- Eve of Innocence
Werewolf 		- Creation
Craft			- untitled
Fonya			- Wanderers of the Neverending Night


All help will be appreciated...


-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: bain1@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: <None>
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:39:08 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <4aoA028z2bnp01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen) writes:
> In article <1992Nov14.205143.17450@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov11.134526.10051@vax.oxford.ac.uk> bain1@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>>In the Court of the Crimson King (1969) : Contains the only KC track most
>>>people have ever heard of - 21st Century Schizoid Man, and is almost worth
>>>buying just for that. The rest of it is Moody-Blues like mellotron epics.
>>
>>	Epitaph? Nothing like a Moody Blues
>>	piece, and one of most remarkable KC
>>	songs rhythmically. 
> 
> Structurally, I'll agree, but to give credit where credit is due, the
> instrumentation mix and overall feel on "court" owes a lot to the Moody
> Blues material of roughly the same period. I remember hearing "Court"
> when it was brand new around 1969... and thinking "Hey, these guys remind
> me of the moody blues a little".
> 
>>>Unfortunately, about a third of the album is taken up with an embarrasingly
>>>dreadful reworking of Mars-The Bringer of War by Holst, which is credited to
>>>Fripp/Ian McDonald.
>>
>>	Remake of Holst is of several parts (~5), and only
>>	one of them is credited to both: others to Fripp only.
>>	This is easily explained by the absense of McDonald
>>	during the most of recording. In The Wake is also
> 
> I'd buy this explanation if it was a new song, but Crimson had been doing
> this song live even before the release of "Court", at a time when McDonald
> was a fully functional member of the band.
> 
> 
> peter (ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com)  "The Lighthouse Keeper"

An interesting snippet I picked up recently may help to shed some light on
this. A few months before 'Poseidon' was due to be released, a band called
Love Sculpture (Dave Edmunds, Mike Finesilver, Peter Ker) released a Rock
version of Mars the Bringer of War. The record was released in the states,
but the Holst estate blocked the release of the record in Europe. It is
possible that Fripp heard about this problem and renamed/recredited the piece
in order to 'sneak it out' without the holst estate noticing. As Peter (above)
says, the song had been performed live for some time and according to bootlegs
of the era always went under the title of Mars the Bringer of War.

  Mark.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: retala@jyu.fi (Reino Tapani Laulainen)
Subject: WANTED: Progressive Rock Groups
Keywords: 
         There was this article about groups/musicians...not any more so
         could someone send me that article.
           
          THANK YOU!
Reply-To: retala@jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvskyl, Finland
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:26:18 GMT


Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:51:51 -0500 
From: Euti Kingsang Perry <ep2m+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: ELP: The Atlantic Years

Can anybody recommend this double-tape set?  I was gonna get The Best of
ELP earlier, but then they just came out with this new set.  The only
ELP songs that I've ever heard are Lucky Man, In the Beginning,
Still...You Turn Me On, and that one song that says "Welcome back my
friends to the show that never ends" (I don't know what the name of the
song is).  Also, I'm curious about Works Volume One, which I think is
another double-tape set.  Can anybody recommend this, too?
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: buzzsaw@bluemoon.use.com (Patrick Buzby)
Subject: Thinking Plague?
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:54:29 EST

  Anyone heard of this group?  I know that they have an album on Cuneiform 
titled "In This Life," which Fred Frith makes a guest appearance on.  
Is this a good album?  (It was given a very high recommendation in one 
source I read but there was hardly any background info apart from the 
above- any details would be greatly appreciated.)

     Pat Buzby           "Fried ice cream is a reality!"-George Clinton
     Grove City, OH      "Music is the best."-Frank Zappa
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: fgomez@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Faustino J. Gomez)
Subject: Re: Magma fans?  check out Ruins
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:36:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.185751.573@csi.jpl.nasa.gov> oneal@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Spaceman Spiff O'Neal) writes:
>I just checked out a new (i think) band called ruins.
>Someone told me they sound like Magma.  I thought , yeah right.
>But they do - even down to the unrecognizable language.
>the album is called Burning Stone (you might check under
>group name burning stone in some of the slower stores, the
>cover doesn't make it very clear)
>
>Really cool stuff for the '90s, I was impressed.
>

    And don't forget to check out XAAL's _On the Way_!

--Faustino Gomez
From: stolte@irit.irit.fr (Nilo STOLTE)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: ELP, Interview --> Triumvirate
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:34:55 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse, France

>Since I happen to be listening as I write this, I should mention, for the
>sake of younger ELP fans (who weren't listening when they actually
>recorded their first few albums) another band. In the mid-70's
>a German band, Triumvirate, recorded a few albums. I have one, Spartacus,
>on CD. This is as close to an ELP clone as you get. If you like early
>ELP, you'll probably like this one. Look for it!

  I also have Spartacus. The best song for me is "Spartacus", the other are
too vocal and don't look to much with ELP, since ELP was more instrumental...

Nilo.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Re: Help for a Yes newbie
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:52:21 GMT

So many Yes fans responding to the newbie, I wonder if anyone
can help me track down a 90125 show with either Perpetual
Change, Our Song, or both. Let me know if you have any
leads!

I think for a person who likes 90125 and Big Generator, the logical
albums to try are

The Yes Album -- 90125 is the sequel to this album, much more
rock oriented and less progressive

Drama -- early 80s sound, just like 90125

From there, explore Fragile and Close to the Edge.

Then get Yesshows, a wonderful introduction to the middle years
of Yes -- Gates, Going 4 the 1, Ritual, Wonderous Stories...
I really love that album.

Ritual is a great song -- it's looooong, but it really only
has a few main themes -- the beginning and end Nous Somme Du Soleil
part, the drum and bass middle section, and of course the swiped
riff from ... somewhere. :)

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: snurmela@polaris.utu.fi (Sami Tapani Nurmela)
Subject: Re: Prog Christmassongs (Was: Re: ELP's Father Christmas)
Organization: University of Turku
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:39:05 GMT

How about 'A Winter's Tale' (or something like that) on Genesis' first
album ?  I like this song a lot and it somehow reminds me of Christmas.
I don't know about the lyrics though, have not actively listened to them.

/sami
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:52:22 EST
From: <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: THE CURE
 <1992Nov15.104720.4704@metrosoft.com>

As the source of the "oh jeez, not again" post, I must defend my post by saying

If we do not clearly define what is and is not Progressive, then the RHCP and
the Cure will be the norm, and Genesis and ELP will not be.

Slainte mhath,

Mike
---
                     Mike Weintraub (aka Jvi on IRC)
                           mweintr@american.edu
                 The American University, Washington, DC
        "Courageous convictions will drag the dream into existence"
   1-0-0-1-0-0-1 SOS      -- Rush "Vital Signs"      --.- --.- --..
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
Subject: Re: East of Eden, Alquin
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:13:17 GMT

bobn@hawkwind.central.Sun.COM (Bob Netherton) writes:


>Has anybody heard of either of these two bands?  East of Eden reminds
>me a little of Soft Machine on first listen.  Alquin is a little more
>mainstream progressive - maybe like Ambrosia or what Caravan was becoming
>in 76 or so.  I am interested in any information on these two bands.

Is David Rose a member of East of Eden? I think he was. I found a very
interesting lp by him recently, I think called DISTANCE BETWEEN DREAMS.
He's a violin player backed by the french group Tranist Express on this
1977 release I have. It's got a very strong Magma feel at times. I'm
curious for more info about E of Eden, I think I heard that they 
have some ethnic music influences mixed with pschadelia. Sounded interesting.

 - Malcolm 
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: ihodge@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Hodge)
Subject: Re: DAVID CROSS: MEMOS FROM PURGATORY
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:14:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.030522.17250@cunews.carleton.ca>, wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) writes:
> 
> After much searching, I finally came across a CD copy of David Cross'
> "Memos From Purgatory". This is a killing disc in my opinion, I
> think I've seen it discussed here, so I won't bother going into
> details.

I wonder if you *could* provide a few details.  I have never heard of
this release.  By 'killing disc', do you mean really good or really bad?
BTW, I have no idea if he has ever released anything else.

Thanks,

Ian Hodge
ihodge@napier.uwaterloo.ca
 
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive,rec.music.info,rec.music.misc
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (automated info blurb)
Subject: MAILINGLIST: The Genesis Mailing List
Followup-To: alt.music.progressive,rec.music.misc
Summary: information on Genesis Mailing List
Originator: recmusic@galaxy
Keywords: none
Reply-To: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:57:29 GMT

		     /   /   |  |   /   /   |   /
		    | _ | -  |\ |  | -  \   |   \
		     \|  \   | \|   \   /   |   /


This is  an info blurb  to  let  you know about the internet's Genesis
Mailing List. It's posted every  couple  of  weeks to  let you know it
exists and how to join it.

The band Genesis and its related solo projects have been a major force
in  modern  music,  from  the  1970s through the present.  An internet
mailing list  was set up to discuss the  band and to  unite  fans in a
very  unique  way.  No fan organization quite like ours exists  in the
world.

To subscribe:

Send electronic mail to the address 'genesis-request@cs.unca.edu' with
'HELP' in  the  body somewhere, just the word  on  a line  by  itself.
genesis-request is  a completely automatic  e-mail server  which  will
promptly respond to your  requests. HELP sends you a  list of commands
and how to use them.

The command  'SUBSCRIBE  digest' will  sign  you  up  to  the  nightly
Paperlate  digest, which comes out once a night -- EST -- and contains
everything posted to the list during the day.

'SUBSCRIBE  bounce' signs you up to the  immediate bounce list,  which
forwards, or 'bounces', mail directly to you as soon as it arrives.

Scott McMahan
(Genesis Mailing List Owner)
From: chrisley@oxford.ac.uk (Ronald L Chrisley)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Prog Christmassongs (Was: Re: ELP's Father Christmas)
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:31:47 GMT
	<Nov09.181345.31747@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
	<CHRISLEY.92Nov18203340@black.oxford.ac.uk>
Organization: School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences, Univ. of Sussex
In-reply-to: chrisley@oxford.ac.uk's message of 18 Nov 92 20:33:4

In article <CHRISLEY.92Nov18203340@black.oxford.ac.uk> chrisley@oxford.ac.uk (Ronald L Chrisley) writes:

   Eddie Jobson:  Ice Dance

Whoops, that should be "Ice Festival"


By the way, there's always Band Aid's "Do They Know It's Christmas"
and "Feed the World"


--
Ronald L. Chrisley  ronc@cogs.susx.ac.uk
COGS, University of Sussex
Falmer, Brighton, BN1 9QH, UK
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: lowery@bnr.ca (Gary Lowery)
Subject: Re: Giles Giles and Fripp
Keywords: Cheerful insanity
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:08:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.165242.22251@dazixco.ingr.com> avdh@sunnyboy.dazixco.ingr.com (Alain van der Heide) writes:
>In article <s0499528.8.0@let.rug.nl>, s0499528@let.rug.nl (R. Dijkhuis) writes:
>> Resently I read something in an old issue of Record Collector about "The 
>> Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp being released on CD. Has anyone 
>> seen it?
>> 
>> Reinder D.
>Please tell me this is true.  My copy is a vinyl bootleg (the week
>after I bought it my brother found one legit copy for $1.99 in a
>cut-out bin in Boston - argh!)

I got my copy in 1981 from a used record store in Norwalk, Conn.  The 
album was a Japanese import, never opened so I grabbed it.  Since I had 
everything that Crimson had done up to that point, I thought I'd see 
where it all started.  The music is interesting, with funny bits at the 
beginning of most tunes on each side.  If you have a good sense of humor 
and an open mind (most King Crimson fans have to have an open mind for 
to listen to their bizarre, yet brilliant music) get the album in some form.  
The instrumental that Fripp does on side two, I can't remember the title,
is amazing for 1967?  Also, Mcdonald and Giles is another decent album
to look into.  I recommend them both.  Listen to them more than once,
they tend to grow on you.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: kemp@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (John Kemp)
Subject: Eddie Jobson's ZINC (LINER NOTES)
Organization: University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:25:48 GMT

Eddie Jobson/Zinc - The Green Album

Side 1:
1. Transporter
2. Resident
3. Easy For You To Say
4. Prelude
5. Nostalgia
6. Waling From Pastel
7. Turn It Over

Side 2:
8. Green Face
9. Who My Friends
10. Colour Code
11. Listen To Reason
12. Through The Glass
13.Transporter II

Vocals, Keyboards and Electric Violin: Eddie Jobson
Guitars:
Nick Moroch (2,3,8,9)
Cary Sharaf (7)
Gary Green (11,12)
Michael Cuneo (2,9,11,12)
Bass:
Alon Oleartchik (3,7,8,11)
Jerry Watts (2,5,9,11,12)
Drums: Michael Barsimanto (2,3,8,9,11,12)

Keyboards: Yamaha CS80 and Mini-Moog synthesizers; Yamaha Grand Piano

Correspondence: Eddie Jobson/Zinc,
Box 1558,
Greenwich, Connecticut 06830

Music and Words written and arranged by Eddie Jobson.
All selections published by Jobsongs, Inc.  c. 1983/ASCAP

*** Review ***
This is one of the great undiscovered albums of all time.
It is like "Adventures In Radioland" by the Mahavishnu
Orchestra in that it is a fantastic album, but it is next
to impossible to find a copy in the stores.
If you like Jobson's work or UK, my guess is that you
would love this album.  Get it! I dare you!

I'm glad we cleared all that up... ;-/
JohnKemp@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: drk@melodian.cs.uiuc.edu (Dave Kohr)
Subject: Re: Another Live Crimson (w/ Belew)
Organization: CS Dept., Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:53:05 GMT

In article <malcolm.722546389@wrs.com> malcolm@wrs.com (Malcolm Humes)
writes: 
>the title was actually INDISCIPLE.

I seem to recall that the full title was "Indisciple/Mining Rocks", and
that much of the material was taped at one of the SUNY (NY State) schools,
maybe Albany?

A slightly newer, higher-quality Crimson boot is "Unpronounceable".  The
cover is in a light shade of purple, and has a stylized symbol of a tuning
fork on the front.  It is vaguely similar in appearance (i.e., a single
dominant color, with some simple symbology on the front) to the 3 final
"official" studio albums  "Discipline", "Beat", and "Three of a Perfect
Pair".
-- 
Dave Kohr     CS Graduate Student     Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Work: 3244 DCL, (217)333-6561  Home: (217)359-9350  E-mail: drk@cs.uiuc.edu
                   "One either has none or not enough."
From: clopez@weird.miami.fl.us (Carlos Lopez)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: RE ADRIAN BELEW
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:21:47 EDT
Organization: Weird BBS [Amiga] (305)553-3207 S. Miami, FL USA

>> >>Group                         Title                         Year
>> >>_________________________________________________________________
>> >>Belew, Adrian                 Lone Rhino                    82
>> >>Bowie, David                  Stage                         78
>> >>Byrne, David                  The Catherine Wheel           81
>> >>Harrison, Jerry               Red And The Black             81
>> >>Jarre, Jean Michel            Zoolook                       84
>> >>King Crimson                  Disipline                     81
>> >>King Crimson                  Three Of A Perfect Pair       84
>> >>King Crimson                  The Compact King Crimson      89
>> >>Oldfield, Mike                Earth Moving                  89
>> >>Sakamoto & Scott              Once In a Lifetime            82
>> >>Zappa, Frank                  Tiny Nightmares II            77 boot leg
>> >>Zappa, Frank                  Leatherette                   78 boot leg
>> >>Zappa, Frank                  Sheik Yerbouti                79
>> >>Zappa, Frank                  You Can't Do That On Stage I  88
>> >Armatrading, Joan (w/ Tony Levin)       The Key
>> >Bears, The (w/ former Raisins) 
>> >Bowie, David                            Lodger
>> >Raisins, The                            Adrian produced at least one of
>> >                                        their records (out of print)
>> >Talking Heads                           Fear of Music
>> >Talking Heads                           Remain in Light
>> >Zappa, Frank                            Baby Snakes (video)
>> Let's add:
>> Talking Heads                                Live 1977-82(not on cd)
>> Laurie Anderson                              Mr. Heartbreak
>Laurie Anderson                                        Home of the Brave >>
(ok, Adrian's only on one cut-a french studio cut no less, but it's the
>> best cut on the album)
>> ---
>> >        Did Adrian play on the Byrne/Eno "Bush of Ghosts" album?
>> I believe this is true.
>> -benj
>> 
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------
He's not listed as one of the musicians on My Life in the Bush of Ghosts.  
Also, I don't think he plays on Fear of Music.  Robert Fripp does play on  at
least one track (I Zimbra).  Belew also plays on the self
titled debut by Chris & Tina's Tom Tom Club (1981).  You mentioned the Heads, 
Byrne, & Harrison so... Also, I'd love to get my hands on Harrison's The Black
and the Red.  It's out of print, and I can't seem to find a copy anywhere!
Belew has played on other worthwhile albums, I'm sure.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive