From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:13:02 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1687D9100.HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.235834.15696@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>
>press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
> 
>>
>>In article <1992Oct6.114200.13090@phillip.edu.au>, lbarrass@phillip.edu.au writes:
>>>
>>[beliefs deleted]
>>>   My guess is that those Mormons you know who believe _all_ of these things are
>>> believing different meanings to commonly held expressions. See the rest of my
>>> original post regarding definitions. Do these Mormons believe in grace only or
>>> grace AND works???
>>
>>I have no intention of becoming embroiled in yet another round of
>>LDS doublethink posing as a good argument for another Jesus, but I
>>would like to re-emphasize this position of Grace only with works
>>resulting from that Grace.
>>The doctrine of Grace+plus Works leaves a believer in a state of
>>constant guilt. They never know if they have done enough! This leaves
>>them in the uneviable position to be exploited by any fast-talking yokel
>>with a pseudo channel to God to lay more guilt on such a believer that
>>they haven't done enough. It's a vicious circle folks. Don't get
>>caught in that trap. Our Lord came to free us from the bondage of
>>guilt and slavery to fast talking yokels who prrey on the sincere of
>>heart.
> 
>Being a pagan-heathen infidel, let me say a few things!
> 
>  1.  Are there other Christian religions which believe in  faith AND works?
>      I know of at least two others besides the Mormons.  Where is the mud
>      slinging against them?  ( Its obvious to me you don't live your religion,
>      or your actions would be different--SHOWE ME YOUR FAITH BY YOUR WORKS!!!!)
> 
>  2.  Look closely at your scriptures; you will find that both faith
>      and works are required.  James is the champion of works, Paul the
>      champion of faith.  It rather obvious by you line of reasoning, that
>      if it only took faith, James' writing wouldn't be in the Bible; and
>      likewise with Paul.  Since they are both there, both are required.
>      (Hey this is the same kind of logic presented over and over again by
>      Christians {as I have seen in the past two years on the net} to
>      disinfranchise whole lines of thought, reason, and proofs).
> 
>  3.  Faith leads to works, if you don't do the works part, you faith is
>      false, therefore your faith must be based up a FALSE JESUS.
> 
>  4.  If you do the works, there is a point in time that you will
>      KNOW you have not only been accepted of God, but pleased Him--
>      that point is having your calling and election made sure;
>      which is championed by Peter.  (Or do you not understand Peter's
>      plain and simple language?)  And if accepted by God, How much
>      more you ought to act like God!
> 
>--A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land.
> 
> 


You are obviously new to this discussion, because we disscussed this
into the ground quite a while ago. If you are interested in listening to
the Truth, then I can repost my response,  if you are only interested in
a good argument, I'd rather save mine and others time.