From: axjes@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Which 210mm 5.6 copal ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:42:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad2.1993Jan26.164224.1
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Alaska

In article <1k451eINNquf@fnnews.fnal.gov>, nicinski@fndaud.fnal.gov (Tom Nicinski) writes:
> In article <C1GvE3.H0D@math.uwaterloo.ca>, accwai@math.uwaterloo.ca (Andy Wai) writes:
> |> In article <1993Jan26.113727.9273@spectrum.xerox.com> mcfarland.henr801c@xerox.com writes:
> |> >
> |> >Prices from B&H (Feb 1993) Sutterbug
> |> >
> |> >			   price    AoV  IC
> |> >
> |> >Sinar       Sinaron-s      $797     72   310
> |> >Schneider   APO-Symmar     $792     72   305
> |> >Rodenstock  Sironar-N      $625     72   301
> |> >Nikkor      Symmetrical    $510     72   301
> 
> My Nikkor catalog says the Nikkor-W 210 only has a 295mm image circle.  I'll use
> that value for calculations below.
> 
> |> >
> |> >(AoV = angle of view; IC = image circle)
> |> >
> |> >All of these lenses are 210mm f5.6 copal, ranging in
> |> >price from $500 to $800 (all unmounted prices). The cost
> |> >difference is presumed to be a quality difference,
> 
> You should also look at the shutters.  I suspect they're all Copal 1, in which
> case there's no difference.
> 
> As for the price, ask whether you're getting the USA importer/manufacturer
> warranty.  B&H (a reasonable place to shop) doesn't incluse USA for all their
> Nikkors (the one's I'm familiar with).  It may be $30 to $40 more for the USA
> warranty.
> 
> |> 
> |> Probably not.  As far as I know, they're all Plasmat type lenses and they
> |> all perform more or less the same.  The Schneider says Apo, but the rest
> |> aren't really that far off.  The Nikkor, in particular, is known for it's
> |> sharpness and contrast.  I have one in 180mm which I used quite a bit.  It
> |> works quite well.
> 
> I have the Nikkor-W 210 and it's quite a good lens.  You can ask Schneider to
> send you the MTF curves for their lenses (they'll want to know which ones you're
> interested in).  I'm not sure if the others offer them (I know Nikon doesn't).
> 
> |> 
> |> >although
> |> >the two top priced lenses do have a larger image circle.
> 
> Look at what those image circles really mean in terms of additional camera move-
> ments.  The table below is indexed by the image circle.  The movement values are
> only for one movement at a time and for a horizontally composed image (for e.g.,
> you don't get as much rise/fall if you also swing the lens):
> 
>                                                         (mm)        (deg)
> Lens                      Length Apert Coverage@f/22 Shift Rise  Swing Tilt
> ------------------------- ------ ----- ------------- ----- ----- ----- -----
> Sinaron-S                  210mm f/5.6  310mm  72deg  82.9  90.5  18.0  20.3
> Schneider APO-Symmar       210mm f/5.6  305mm  71deg  80.2  87.8  17.5  19.8
> Nikkor-W                   210mm f/5.6  295mm  70deg  74.9  82.3  16.5  18.7
> 
> |> 
> |> If angular coverage are the same, how can image circle be different?
> 
> The angle of coverage is only an approximation.  Use the image circle to get the
> actual angle of coverage (72.86 vs. 71.97 vs. 70.17 degrees).
> 
> |> 
> |> >The question is, how much of a quality difference
> |> >is there between the Rodenstock and Schneider that
> |> >is worth $160. Similarily, is the Sinar
> |> >better or worse than the Schneider ?
> 
> From some photographers I've talked to, there are some color differences in the
> lenses.  These are generalizations, but the Germans (Schneider and Rodenstock)
> tend to be cooler while the Japanese (Fujinon (not imported to the U.S. except
> from Del's) and Nikkor) tend to be a bit warmer.  For B&W, this should not be
> any problem, but for color, you may want to stick with the same color casts.
> I've also talked to a MAC V.P. who, from what I remember, prefers the Roden-
> stock lenses for B&W because he liked their tonality.  It's all a matter of
> personal taste (just like film).  If you're in a big city, you should be able
> to rent some of these lenses out for a day and test them.
>  
> |> 
> |> As far as I know, Sinaron-s is actually relabeled Sironar-N.  The Sinaron
> |> may be in DB mount though.  So check before you buy.  Anyway, they're all
> |> good enough that they aren't the limiting factor in general.  So don't worry
> |> about this kind of thing too much.  (Just my $.02 of course)
> |> 
> |> Andy Wai

My CALUMET catalog lists the Caltar 210mm f5.6 for $550.  CALUMET says
their house brand is Rodenstock and the 210mm f5.6 is a SIRONAR-N.  
CALUMET offers a free lensboard and drilling and mounting with a new lens
purchase, CALUMET or CAMBO lensboards only.  I just ordered one.  Should
be here today.

Jim Snyder
University of Alaska
AXJES@ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU
(no affiliation with CALUMET)
Newsgroups: rec.photo