HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Angels (was: Re: more on Gormonbozia (spoilers))
Date: 9 Sep 1992 16:23:54 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: bvickers@net3.ics.uci.edu's message of 4 Sep 92 18:37:06 GMT

In article <2AA7ACD2.6057@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@net3.ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:
   kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:
   >I concurr with ingria@BBN.COM that an angel did cut Ronette's bonds.

   Well, the angel didn't explicitly come down with a knife and cut her bonds,
   but after seeing the angel, Ronette noticed that her bonds were undone.
   I think it's pretty safe to assume there's a connection.

Yep.  That's why I originally said that the angel ``apparently cut''
Ronette's bonds.

-30-
Bob
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Subject: Re: Comments from 2nd viewing
Followup-To: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: University of Oregon
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 17:31:27 GMT

In article <18rlhkINN6v4@agate.berkeley.edu>, sally@anableps.berkeley.edu
(S. A. Wilson) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Question about the various rings....
> 
> Now, since there are "good" and "evil" versions of Coop, Laura, etc.,
> could there not be also "good" and "evil" version of objects, such
> as the ring. Thereby, it would explain why Laura was told not to
> put on the ring, yet offered a ring. There are different rings floating
> about: on of these rings is some bond between the werarer and the
> Black Lodge, another is a gift of protection from the White Lodge?

Another explanation is that the ring was good and it was the 'bad' Cooper
in her dream telling her not to take it.  It might be argued that it has to
be the good Coop because that is the one in the lodge, but don't forget
that Leland/BOB enter the lodge at the end of FWWM, so Coop/BOB could also.
 That said, I'm not as happy with this theory as I would like to be.

> The ring we see under the trail that Desmond finds definitely has
> the owl symbol from Owl Cave, but did anyone notice if the other
> rings had the same symbol--that is if there were more than one ring?

At my third viewing, I tried to look very carefully at the rings. Mainly, I
concentrated on whether they all had green stones.  The answer is yes, and
I am pretty sure they also all had the owl cave symbol.

Also, the comments of MFAP to Coop at the end of the shooting script (they 
don't appear in the movie) indicate there is only one ring. See below:
#	Cooper:  {looking at table}  Where is the ring?
#	MFAP:  Someone else has it now.
#	Cooper:  That would indicate that it's the future.
#	MFAP:  The later events have never been kept a secret.

Now take a look at what follows immediately (at least in the post).
Annie's is a different ring. It is the one that his mother gave Coop and it
is a plain gold band, not one with a green stone.  So we have at least two
different rings, Coops and the one we first see on TB's finger in the
picture but we later see in the dream sequence on the table that Coop
refers to.

#	Cooper:  Where am I?  _And how can I leave?_
#	MFAP:  You are here and there is no place to go...
#	  {shouts}  BUT HOME!  {laughs uncontrollably}
#   -- Nurse attends to Annie.
#	Annie:  My name is Annie.  I've been with Laura and Dale.  The good
#	  Dale is in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary.
#      The nurse slides the ring off of Annie's finger.  She goes to
another
#      room and puts it on.
#   -- Truman and Doc tend to Cooper, who says he slipped and hit his head
on
#      the mirror and that it struck him as funny.
#   -- Laura is sitting on Cooper's lap in the red room

-Rich Haller
From: dcoufal@athena.mit.edu (David E Coufal)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: who's Scott Frost
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:42:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <Bu6Iu6.1yr@well.sf.ca.us>, rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:
|> 
|> Who is Scott Frost, who is listed as the author of Cooper's autobiog?
|> Did he have anything to do with the show?
|> -- 
|> Robert Chao
|> Oakland, California

Scott Frost is the brother of Mark Frost, one of the two creators of
"Twin Peaks."  He's not only the author of the Autobiography, but he also
wrote the Twin Peaks Tapes of Agent Cooper and the second season episodes
2008 and 2014.  

Old Time a.tv.tpers will also recall that Paul Raveling (are you still out
there, Paul?) was related to Scott Frost by marriage, so he was the source
of lots of inside production information.

-- 
"One time I removed all the                           David E. Coufal
 hair from a mouse with Nair-Hair                  BITNET:dcoufal@mitwccf
 just to see what it looked like.              INTERNET:dcoufal@athena.mit.edu
 And it looked beautiful." - David K. Lynch        dec@alumni.caltech.edu
From: pat@bcserv.wustl.edu (Niemeyer (Pat))
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Wanted: a FAQ file...
Date: 14 Sep 92 03:22:53 GMT
Organization: Washington University in Saint Louis, MO USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcserv.wustl.edu

Has anyone thought of putting together a FAQ file of some
sort for this group?

Perhaps some kind of synopsis of the generally accepted meanings,
threads, etc...

I have seen the movie and watched most of the episodes, however
it is a little hard to pick up in the middle of these discussions.


Just a thought,
Pat
From: hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Comments from 2nd viewing
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:44:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <18rlhkINN6v4@agate.berkeley.edu>, sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
> 
> 
> Question about the various rings....
> 
> Now, since there are "good" and "evil" versions of Coop, Laura, etc.,
> could there not be also "good" and "evil" version of objects, such
> as the ring. Thereby, it would explain why Laura was told not to
> put on the ring, yet offered a ring. There are different rings floating
> about: on of these rings is some bond between the werarer and the
> Black Lodge, another is a gift of protection from the White Lodge?
> 
> The ring we see under the trail that Desmond finds definitely has
> the owl symbol from Owl Cave, but did anyone notice if the other
> rings had the same symbol--that is if there were more than one ring?
> 
> Sally--


I've wondered if it depends on how one wears the ring?  Remember when Windham
Earle goes into Owl Cave and sees "the symbols" at the end of rod projecting
out of the wall, then looks up at the cave ceiling and sees "the symbol
inverted" (he then turns the rod so that symbol is inverted too).

Maybe if you put the ring on and the symbol is right-side up, it protects you,
but if it is upside down it dooms you.

Otherwise, I can't explain why Coop warns Laura not to take the ring, but
ultimately the ring seems to protect her soul (unless that was the evil Cooper,
but I don't buy that).

Holly Kruse
hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
From: lester@soldev.tti.com (jim)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: IGNORING ME???
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:46:13 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <36970@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> floyd@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>>All I wanted to know was, "How did Audrey Horne die?"
>
>She was blown to bits in the bank vault explosion in the last television
>episode.

She didn't die.  An angel came down from heaven and unlocked her handcuffs,
allowing her to step out for a smoke just before the bomb tore the eyeglasses
off Senor SafeDepositBox's face.

She'll appear in the next prequel, "Young Man, Don't Play With Those Matches."

YMDPWTM,
 Jim
Jim Lester  (an employee)               Citicorp slash TTI
90405  (310)450-9111, x2209             lester@soldev.tti.com
			 "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive,
			  but it is lightning that does the work."  - M. Twain
From: v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: I FOUND OUT WHAT GARMONBOZIA IS!!!(Spoiler, of course)
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:04:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep13.044542.26109@cco.caltech.edu>, UnoJ writes...
>It would surprise me if Windom Earle had such influence on Black
>Lodgers that they would be referring to him (even if reversed) in
>their quest for the pain and suffering from possessed souls. WE
>seemed more like a nasty gremlin bent on destrucion to me. But his
>quest was the arrival at the Black Lodge, so he did not seem to
>have a tight grip on it like Mike or Bob for example.
>If this is not a hoax posting I'll be delighted to read any 
>coherent theories.
 It wasn't a hoax posting...in fact, I've been thinking about it all
day. Think: 
      1) Who was the only person/parts of a person who said the
word?
      2) When did the OAM leave? (Right before WE showed up in town)
      3) It's been speculated that time moves in reverse in the 
lodges, right?
      4) The OAM is pissed at BOB for something...

    Now, say this happened:

        When BOB takes WE's soul in 2022, he split it into two 
parts: a malevolent side and a benevolent (or at least self-
serving and not totally evil) side. The "face of God"?-
BOB in the lodge? Now, the self-serving side becomes the OAM.
The malevolent side becomes the LMFAP. Let's move backwards from
the end of the show. WE/OAM can't meet up with WE(moving forward in
time), so he hangs out in the lodge and waits until Windom's 
somewhere else in the country. He comes out of the lodge to assist
Coop in catching BOB out of revenge for splitting his soul. He
keeps an eye on things when Coop gets there (The elevator in 1000)
to make sure it is his former partner (The only person that can help
him now, because he's the only person WE knows that hasn't been in 
the Lodges and is pure enough to go toe-to-toe with BOB to save
not only himself and Annie, but Windom as well. Then, he tries to
get back to his whole self after BOB kills Laura (I want back all
of Windom Earle, the two halves say in unison). BOB doesn't. He
just gives them some pain & suffering, the things that WE fed on 
in life. OAM/WE goes back to the world to try to f*ck up BOB's 
plot to be Laura out of spite. He then (In the meeting...didn't
it look likethe LMFAP (The malevolent side of Earle)was looking
at the "Garmonbozia" with relish at the thought of having it?)
tries to "Can it up" (Make himself whole again) at one of their 
meetings. This may have involved actually getting the WE of that
time to the lodge to help patch things up (Thus Windom's 
disappearance and subsequent messed-up mental state in _My Life,
My Tapes_) no dice. What happens with Windom? Maybe he gets saved
in the finale of the story, maybe he's trapped like that forever.
However, having Coop trying to save the soul of WE would be a great
addition to the story. 
                                     Just a thought...
                                         George...
"Would you like some coffee?"
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Subject: Palmer House (sic) (was: Wood, plastic, floating
Followup-To: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: University of Oregon
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 19:29:19 GMT

In article <cicero.1erl@hotcity.COM>, cicero@hotcity.COM (Andreas Locicero)
wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Sep6.211420.18741@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
> the movie are different than the ones used in the show.  I think much of the
> show was shot on location.  Perhaps the people who live/work in those spaces

Nope. Only the pilot. Most of the show was shot on sets in the L.A. area. 
They used some stock footage they shot during the pilot and I think they
did come up to shoot a little bit extra, but not much in Snoqualmie/North
Bend, at least, maybe they shot some of the Great Northern interiors at the
other location which is west of Seattle. Those would be expensive to
duplicate in a set. They did build a set for the R&R and some GN interiors
like Coop's room. By the way, the original is not a hotel or lodge, it is a
convention center (run by an Indian tribe, by the way). The exteriors are
of an entirely different place, the Salish Lodge, which looks nothing like
it on the inside.

Supposedly the Palmer House (TP, not Chicago :-) ) in FWWM is not the
Snoqualmie/North Bend area, though it is in the Seattle area. I can't say
if it is the same house or not.

I do know that they used a different high school, one in a town close by.
The original was undergoing extensive renovation on the outside.

They also used a set for the roadhouse instead of the bar in Seattle they
used for the interiors in the series.  The exteriors are a bar in a nearby
town (I forget the name, it is east of Snoqualmie).

-Rich Haller
From: floyd@maple.circa.ufl.edu (FLOYD)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Sam the forensics guy
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:06:09 GMT
Reply-To: floyd@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida - CIRCA

Does anyone remember way back in the premire episode when Cooper bags the letter from Laura's fingernail and tells Diane to give it to Albert, not Sam, because Albert is more on the ball.  Or something along those lines.  Is Sutherland's character this same Sam?  I would have to say yes.  Or perhaps I'm imagining the whole thing.
Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.
From: swede@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: <None>
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:05:35 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

>the way).  What Robert Engels said was that Kyle did not want to become 
>another  
>"James T. Kirk" -- which he quickly pointed out DIDN'T happen to every actor,  
>and gave another example which was lost in the recesses of my memory soon  
>afterwards, but it was convincing enough anyway.

Don't know if it's the answer you're thinking of, but a good example would
be Sean Connery, who shot to fame as James Bond, and moved beyond that to
a wider range of films after those days were over.  Of course, Kyle may
be no Sean, either, but time will tell...

>Paul Hagstrom

Gary W. Olson               "That's tonight's 'Unsolved Mysteries.' Next
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU week we'll present wildly inconclusive evidence
58 days and counting down... on the Amelia Earhart disappearance, U.F.O.'s
                             and God. Be there!"-Evan Dorkin's "Milk & Cheese"
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: roger@wrq.com (Roger Fulton)
Subject: Different mask?
Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:24:15 GMT

Did anyone besides me notice that the white mask
looks the same throughout FWWM except once: when
Pierre Tremond (aka the grandson) pulls the mask
back and then a monkey(?) pulls it back, there
is a second protrusion above the "nose," at about
forehead level.  This protrusion is about the same
length as the nose, but is dark colored.  I think
it may be a stick -- the same stick that PT waves
about during his asphalt dance?

On another topic, yes, I also noticed that the
"monkey" said something (this is when the monkey
is shown after the eating of the garmonbozia).
I couldn't tell what it said; thanks for letting
us know it's "Judy."

Also, I have to say that seeing FWWM a second time
makes a BIG difference; I enjoyed it much more the
second time.  Part of the reason for that is that
the second time I saw it in THX Dolby Stereo --
***WOW***!  AB's music never sounded so good.
From: dgd@csd.bu.edu (David Durand)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: The Great Went Solved??
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:58:51 GMT
Organization: Roberstool Research Labs
In-reply-to: scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov's message of 14 Sep 92 17:36:00 GMT

In article <14SEP199212361365@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:

   This makes as much sense as anything else I've read about Jacques calling 
   himself the "Great Went".

[theory about the tv show Cheers deleted that doesn't convince me, anyway]
   Geoff

 I think that perhaps it is supposed to resonate with the lost/leaving
theme of degradation and progressive evil. All along the image of
Laura is of someone "going away" being sucked farther and farther into
a destructive pit. Perhaps Jacques is saying that he's already long
gone. Perhaps it also means he's been taken over by the black lodge
already, and that's why he's as blank as a fart -- nothing left of the
original human (that had a capacity for good).
    Of course, the nonsensical nature of his expressions is clearly
meant to evoke that peculiar sort of conversation that takes place at
large crowded parties where everyone is _way out_ of a normal mental
state.

    -- David
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel)
Subject: Re: Miniseries
Summary: Possible
Keywords: Wanted..yes!
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:33:34 GMT

In article <3SEP92.14581627@wums.wustl.edu> furesz_t@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>Although I enjoyed the movie and want to see another made I think TP should
>return to the small screen.  I think the best way would be to have a
>yearly miniseries (something the length of the first season).  That way
>each spring they could air a new 7-9 hours (one hour a week) works
>well.  I like the old each episode is a day in TP.  That got lost in
>FWWM.  Lynch could stay heavily involved (more so than doing a full
>22 episodes a year) and we would not have to wait a year or 2 till
>we get another movie.  What do people think?
>
>Todd

 I would love for Twin Peaks to come back on TV as a mini-series. As a
 matter of fact, I think that would be the only way it would work on TV
 now. Good thing is, ABC IS making time slots soon for mini series
 throughout its schedule and they are getting big names to make mini
 series for them. They said they decided to do this so what happened to
 Twin Peaks wouldn't happen again (big name director's like Lynch getting
 involved in a work and them leaving because of its length on TV to do
 something else thus the series failing afterwards).
 
 -=*George*=-
From: sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: "You shot Mike"
Date: 9 Sep 1992 18:41:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anableps.berkeley.edu

In article <18lee3INNt18@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
>normal supplier. Jacques sets him up with another supplier, the deputy
>from Deer Creek.  Bobby makes sure that Mike is not invovled. Anyway,
           ^^^^^
Damn,      Meadow......what a jerk, sorry I apologize for that error.

Sally--
-- 
That the play is the tragedy, "Man,"  \\\\\	Sally A. Wilson
  And its hero, the Conqueror Worm.    \\\\\	sally@mica.berkeley.edu
("The Conqueror Worm"			\\\\\
from Egar Allan Poe's _Ligeia_)		 \\\\\	Spud 	Peel
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: The Native American meaning of corn
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:13:33 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Sep6.215543.19362@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>>
>>It didn't have anything on Owls?  I'm amazed.  Owls are of tremndous
>>symbolic importance, especially in the NW.  As a quick rule of thumb,
>>Owls represent emotions and emotional events, and almost never in a
>>positive manner.  I'll look up some info I have at home regarding the
>>mythic interpretation of Owls in the NW Coast, but if I recall, owls
>>were feared.
>>

>>
>>PS:  If memory serves, according to one particular tribe (Kwaikuital?
>>Not Positive which) Owls were created from strong emotions of fear at
>>the time of death.  Hopefully I can find some of my old college textx
>>on the subject.  And I thought my Anthro classes would never be useful
>>:).
>>  
>  Another example to back this up is that Cooper only starts to see the
>  giant after he gets shot and near death.
> 
> 

I wonder if that what the Log Lady meant when she said "The Owls are not what 
they seem." (ie maybe she meant that death isn't as bad as Coop or Laura 
thought). Anyone have thoughts? Anyone? Buller....

Mike
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel)
Subject: Re: The Great Went (poss. spoil./explanation)
Summary: Jacques lines in Pink Room
Keywords: A joke.
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:55:53 GMT

In article <lba18nINNbeb@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
>In article <Sep.13.20.27.58.1992.29730@andromeda.rutgers.edu> kwest@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Kenneth C West) writes:
>
>	   Okay, a line in FWWM that has everybody mystified, including me, is
>   Jacques in the Pink Room saying "I am the Great Went" and "I am as blank as
>   a fart". I've been re-watching the series in my spare time, and have an
>   interesting find:
>
>	   Second season, third or fourth episode, when Norma announces that
>   the mysterious food critic is coming to Twin peaks. No one knows who this
>   critic is or even what they look like. The name of the critic? M.T. Wents.
>   So, when Jacques says "I am the Great Went", I think that maybe his fart
>   reference meant empty, as in M.T.
>
>No.  Remember, Jacques puts his hand to his head in the shape of a gun
>and then ``fires'', but still stays alive; hence, the ``blank'' part.
>But how is a fart blank?
>
 How is a fart blank? Because it is not a sh*t - excuse my french. :-)

>				     So this means.....what? That Jacques 
>   moonlighted as a food critic?
>
>But we find out who the critic is: Norma's mother, so if there's any
>reference from the Great Went to M.T. Wentz, it's a meta-joke by
>Lynch, et al., not one by Jacques.
>
>-30-
>Bob

 I agree with The Grent Went, and The Muffin referring to Laura's and
 Jacques SEXcapades and maybe "I am blank as a fart" means there is nothing
 in bis head - drunk? These two were just jokes as far as I am concerned,
 Tommy and Buck start laughing after he says it.

 -=*George*=-
From: asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: FWWM: Some thoughts about thread (spoiler)
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:11:54 GMT
Distribution: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

I think the thread that must be broken is another metaphor for the circle
Mike spoke of in the series (appetite, something, fullfillment (I think)).
It make more sense than any of the more literal theories that have been
proposed.

__   -paul asente
\/     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

o       In China's remote Dimsum province, oxen are used in
        place of technical writers, with no apparent loss of
        readability.