From: tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:43:13 GMT

 
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
 
] In <1993Jan8.222334.20157@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
]  writes:
]
] >] Having one or more friends who belong to an unusual group does not guarantee
] >] that they have lots of friends belonging to that group.
] >
] >No argument there.  However, if the group in question is defined or
] >characterized by common interests and attitudes, then the correlation
] >will be much, much higher.
]
] Well, I once knew someone whose hobby was collecting road-killed
] animals.  To the best of my knowledge, *none* of her friends shared
] that interest.  Strange?
 
Not particularly; nobody suggested that everyone shares all their
interests with all their friends.  However, if you'd gone to a meeting
of a group with a name like "Roadkill Collectors of Texas" the odds are
that you might have met several people who shared that interest.  It is,
however, still more likely that someone who is into collecting roadkill
will know someone else who shares that hobby than that a randomly
selected individual would.
 
] >Not exactly; developing your physical and mental powers (or, for that
] >matter, just about any other abilities) takes an investment in effort and
] >dedication.
]
] Well, if that's the case, energy and dedication being finite quantities,
] the more you invest in developing your muscles, the less you have left
] to develop your mind.  But Trygve Lode, Charlie Martin, and Company are
] pretty vehement in denying that is true.
 
Not really; these may be finite qualities, but they are certainly not
fixed quantities.  This may be simply because I haven't attained the
level of mental perfection that you have, but I find that my energy
levels vary from day to day and, though no doubt this speaks very poorly
for my ability to concentrate, vary quite a bit depending on how I'm
feeling.  Perhaps it is a shortcoming of mine that I feel better and
sleep better when I exercise regularly, but that's something I've
learned to live with and, as a result, by spending time developing my
muscles, I have more energy left over than I would have had otherwise.
 
Further, I find that physical strength is a useful and valuable thing to
have--whether I'm getting a car unstuck from the snow, repairing
electronic equipment, or building something, physical strength and
endurance makes the task easier and faster.  By keeping fit, I can do
household repairs that require doing strange things like holding heavy
tools overhead for hours at a time without fatiguing or being sore the
next day; I can move a household full of furniture for a friend or spend
an afternoon planting trees without difficulty.  Of course you may never
do any of these things, so none of this may apply to you, but in my
chosen lifestyle, I do things every day that I can do faster and better
because I'm reasonably strong.  This has been especially true lately--I
assure you that these days a day never goes by that I'm glad that, even
after weeks of being bedridden, I still had enough upper-body strength
to move my not inconsiderable bulk using just my arms; my house wasn't
designed for someone recovering from leg surgery--I've got plenty of
stairs and plenty of things I need in places that aren't easy to get to
with the aid of crutches, but if there's something sturdy to grab onto
in the area, I don't need crutches.
 
] >] If athletes are better physically, and just as good mentally, as
] >] "nerds," it certainly sounds like they're better over all.
] >
] >On average, there is such a trend; as far as individuals go, you can
] >make no such assumption.
]
] Only if you're talking about logic.  You're overlooking a more common
] human quality called "prejudice."  Once someone has decided that's
] true, on average, he (or she) is likely to start looking for preferentially
] for athletes.  If he meets a nerd, the burden of proof is on her to
] prove she is an exception.  But, while it may be easy to see whether
] or not she is a weightlifter or runner during a 5-minute conversation
] at a cocktail party, discussing the results of her Master's thesis may
] take quite a while longer.  With someone who has already decided he
] isn't interested, this is likely to be impossible.
 
Well, I can't help what some other people might do at a cocktail party,
but, hard to believe as this is, I'm interested in qualities besides
just athletic tendencies--and, for that matter, I don't go to parties
exclusively (or even to any great extent at all) for the purpose of
mating; instead, I'm much more focused on enjoying myself and having a
few interesting conversations (and getting me involved in a conversation
about someone's master's thesis would probably be much easier than
getting me involved in a conversation about most sports other than
weightlifting and bicycling; even those I enjoy well enough, but would
usually rather talk to someone who has been doing some interesting
research into chaos theory, genetic engineering, or something that is a
little more exciting to talk about than most exercises are).
 
] And the fitness movement, whose motto is "exercise is for everybody,"
] reinforces this prejudice.  When was the last time you saw a postitive
] image of a "nerd" in the movies, television, or other media?
 
Hey, I'm still looking for positive images of strong, independent women
who aren't "punished" or "reformed" by the end of the movie.  (Not,
however, that I watch much television, so I've probably missed something.)
 
Have you ever seen "Real Genius"?
 
] >You cannot, however, extend these very general observations to
] >individuals any more than you can note "tall people, on the average,
] >weigh more than short people" and conclude from this "any given tall
] >person is heavier than any given short person."
]
] Yet people make assumptions like that all the time.
 
Gads--I wish they did.  Almost every time I try going clothes shopping,
the guiding principle is "all men occupy the same volume"--even if I go
to a "large and tall" men's store, I find that shirts with my neck size
are designed for men 5' tall and shirts with my sleeve length are
designed for men who must weigh under 100#.
 
Trygve
--
"BLASH"

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