From: esti@quads.uchicago.edu (Paul A. Estin)
Subject: Giving unasked-for advice (was Re: All mind and no heart?)
Reply-To: esti@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Insanity Etc.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:31:50 GMT

Snark:

>>"3. P1 hurts.  P1 may be looking for empathy or sympathy from P2, but
>>not for advice.  (Arty was one of the first to mention this situation.)
...
>>(Sometimes, though, you really have to ignore a person's wish to
>>simply listen-without-giving-advice, if there really is a possible
>>solution which should be mentioned.)

sjs:

>ACK!!! Argh & Double Ack!  <<du calme, du calme....>>  <<sigh>>
>Well, ummm..., when you do give advice to someone who is not looking
>for it and doesn't want it, how is it received?

Snark (grinning sheepishly):

Badly.  I didn't mean to say it was a *good* idea, just that sometimes
I can't help it... :)

sjs:

>If I am in an emotional state, looking for compassion, and my best
>beloved gives me cold, rational advice instead, I have 2 reactions:
>1) anger -- if I can't expect sympathy from my best beloved, who can
>   I expect it from?
>2) complete rejection of the advice, its validity notwithstanding.
>   (I'm being emotional, ok?!)

>If my best beloved could contain himself, reserving his advice for a time
>when I am no longer emotional (this could be a couple of hours or even a
>week later), and give me empathy instead, I would be much happier.
>
>However, that is me, perhaps you have met folks who can accept advice
>when in an emotionally charged state?  

Snark:

Nope.  Can't say that I have.  Certainly I know *I* can't.  You make
some excellent points.  However...

The Real Life case I had in mind was somewhat more ambiguous, and was
a repeat case as well... I once had a friend I'll call simply "F" (not
a girlfriend) who often came looking for compassion but not
appreciating advice.  She came to talk to my roommate ("R") and me
about a situation that was bothering her.  If I recall correctly, this
particular visit, F's problem was that she was not getting along with
her roommate ("FR"), and was angry at FR for not respecting her
personal stuff, and so forth.

On the one hand, F usually didn't take advice well; on the other hand,
she seemed to be asking for advice in this one case.  Furthermore,
since this sort of thing had come up before, R and I couldn't help but
give advice (F hadn't warned her roommate not to touch her
synthesizer, and so it seemed unfair not to at least give a warning
without first flying off the handle; if F really had so many problems
with this and previous roommates, perhaps she should move into the
dorm with singles; etc.).

F got annoyed with us, got angry and upset, started arguing that our
advice was no good... and eventually settled down and, a couple of
weeks later, took our advice to move into a single.

Keep in mind this was not the first time she had complained about
roommate problems; at a certain point, we got fed up with merely
providing compassion, decided that it benefitted none of us to simply
provide a place to complain, and gave advice in hopes of correcting
the problem.

Now, a question in return: In the case when one 'reserves advice for a
time when you are no longer emotional', when is a good time?  How
would one know?

-----
"Yeah, but it gets real lonely as a moderate activist, standing alone with a
sign that reads 'Reasonable informed discussion of the issues, as soon as is
feasible!'." --James Nicoll

Paul Andrew Estin, net.Snark, R.A.C.W.P., UCSFC F.C./K.S., F.C.S.
paul.estin@um.cc.umich.edu  or  esti@midway.uchicago.edu
214 Beakes St. (home)  330 Packard Rd. (work)  Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Newsgroups: alt.callahans