HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: oh bugger
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:03:16 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

Well, I'll be emigrating. Any recommendations? I hear New Zealand is
nice.

Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu
From: sunder@altair.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Elections
Date: 10 Apr 1992 01:42:34 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: altair.crhc.uiuc.edu

I heard from someone who heard it on the Beeb that the Tories are predicted to
take it by a 3-seat majority. Any confirmation?

-srinivas sunder
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Can YOU predict the election outcome? - **RESULTS**
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:32:09 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:

>simon@cs.city.ac.uk (Simon Brock-Gunn) writes:
>>rank err   Con Lab  LD SNP  sender
>>       0   336 271  20   3  (Actual Result)

>> 9=  111   375 220  40   4  Lionel Tun <lionel@cs.city.ac.uk>

Isn't that more or less the result of the 1987 election?

>>15   239   241 257 124  29  Richard Marshall <lah014@cck.coventry.ac.uk>

124 seats for the LDs??? <collapses into fit of giggles>

>>So the award of "Voice of the People" goes to ... drum roll ... 
>>Ian.Taylor@rcvie.co.at (Ian Taylor).
>Congratulations to Ian.Taylor.

Indeed. <claps>

>However I notice that only Ian.Taylor and Lionel Tun predicted that
>the Conservatives would have an outright majority. I think ranking
>should reflect this, the most important consideration, and suggest
>that rank is based on the accuracy of the Conservative/Labour ratio
>prediction.

Well, you would.

>BTW, any opinions on why so many intellectuals could get it so wrong?

Everyone got it wrong, not just the intellectuals. I think it's simply
because our electoral system makes numbers of seats (as opposed to national
share of the vote) incredibly difficult to predict.

>Were they brainwashed by watching too much BBC tv?

Surely intellectuals are the least liable to be brainwashed. The population
at large may well have been, given how pro-establishment the BBC is these
days.

> How many people
>actually _read_ the election manifesto's. I believe careful reading
>of the manifesto's would have enabled a thinking person to accurately
>predict who would get the country's vote of confidence.

Only if most of the voters read the manifestos, which they don't. More of
them read the tabloid press than anything else.


/jon
   _________________________________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley  ____   One cannot be precise and           //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \bi/  still be pure.      --Marc Chagall  // // //////
/_x8504_____B2t+w-g+svrp \/ __________________________________///////////  //
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:25:48 GMT
Organization: Lysator Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden

Daniel A Lagattuta writes:

>	It seems to me the problem is with the opposition parties.  If
>Labour and the Liberal Democrats could cooperate and not compete for
>the same seats, they could have formed a coalition government between
>them.  Unless, of course, the British voters who vote Liberal
>Democrat might prefer a Tory government to Liberal Democrat-Labour
>coalition.  

Blaming the opposition parties for not wanting to form a coalition
government, doesn't seem to solve the problem. Several criteria have
to be met before a coalition can be formed. Among the more important
ones are that the party leaderships are sympathetic with each other
and that the people who would normally vote for them appreciate the
compromises which are the inevitable result of a coalition.  Neither
of these seem to be met by Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Another
point, forming a coalition might be easy, but maintaining it can prove
very hard. That, I suppose, is especially true in a country which has
very little experience of coalitions.

>Proportional representation sounds like a good idea but it had led to
>very unstable governments in countries like Israel or Italy.  In
>America, first past the post system has created a stable 2-party
>system.  This is not to say that our government is doing a good job,
>but proportional representation would not solve these problems.

Comparisons with Italy and Israeli are in this case litteraly
farfetched. Why not take a look at other countries in northern Europe:
Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finnland to name some. I would call
them stable, wouldn't you? Most of these countries have a minimum
percentage of the votes for parties who want to get into the
parliament. In Sweden it is 4% (or more than 12% in one district), in
Germany 5%. In Sweden there are 7 parties in the parliament, in
Germany about 4.

I can't speak for the British, but I would certainly be frustrated if
the place where I live decides if my vote counts or not.

In the USA the two-party system has also led to that the opposing
parties are very similar. That might lead to a stable government, but
it also makes the parties unable to propose greater changes. In my
opinion, it is naive to think that a majority of the people in a
country will hold opinions similar to one out of two parties. Why not
trust the people to make their own choice? Wasn't that the idea of
democracy? 

--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Where is the mythic archetype who will save us from ecological
catastrophe or credit card debt?" 
Ian McDonald in King of Morning, Queen of Day
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Why wait 5 years?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:52:31 GMT

In article <STEVEW.92Apr13120006@mushroom.cs.man.ac.uk> stevew@cs.man.ac.uk (Steve Wallis) writes:
>After Labour's disastrous election defeat, the British people have to wait
>another 5 years to get rid of the Tories, and the Scottish people have to
>wait another 5 years for devolution.  Or do they? ...
>
>If (or when) the struggle takes off in Scotland, it could spread to England
>and Wales....  So why wait until 1997 to ditch the
>Tories when they shouldn't be in power now?

Because they won fair and square.

>There are turbulent times ahead!  Forward to a socialist society...
>
>Steve.
>
>--
>  /    / / \    / /            --------------------------------------------
>  \/\ /\ \/ \  / \\/      /    |    Steve Wallis (stevew@cs.man.ac.uk)    |
>    /   \ \/ \/   \\//\  /     | Mail me if you want to join the struggle |
>                   \/  \/      --------- for a socialist society. ---------

Are you sure you didn't mean to say "Backward to a socialist society"?
I thought that even the Labour Party had renounced socialism.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6285 rec.arts.books:7904
From: 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:52:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr13.105225.6213

In article <92099.233442DAB16@psuvm.psu.edu>, DAB16@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> I'm not sure what this thread has to do with books, but no one seems to
> mind that it doesn't.

No clue either... of course I've been reading s.c.b for only a couple of 
days now...

> Since "soda pop" was mentioned as a generic U.S.
> tag, I'll testify that the midwesterners--not Pennsylvania, but Illinois
> (Chicago), Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa--use, though perhaps not exclusively,
> simply "pop" not "soda pop." 

It also extends east into Michigan and Indiana.  Being from Michigan I never
use "soda pop" or "soda" when referring to "pop."  For me "soda" refers to
club soda, which is nasty stuff...

> --Dennis

-- 
/---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
|  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
|  Department of History                |               Muncie, Indiana, USA  |
|  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |
>---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
|  "It is good fortunes for politicians that people don't think."- A. Hitler  |
|                       Aoibheann beatha an scol/aire!                        |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: The Vogon News Service: 10-Apr-92
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:44:21 GMT

Craig Cockburn writes:

	VOGON announces:

		In Scotland there was a 3% swing to the Conservatives. The 
		turnout was ~80%.

Better get up there, Craig, it sounds as though Scotland needs talking to.

							Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Organization: sgi
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 00:17:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.152659.19564@osf.org>, david@guadet.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr14.101803@axion.bt.co.uk> ravis@axion.bt.co.uk (Richard  
|> Avis) writes:
|> > 
|> > |> Proportional representation sounds like a
|> > |> good idea but it had led to very unstable governments in countries like 
|> > |> .... Italy.
|> 
|> Hmmm sounds like you've been listening to that nice Mr. Baker.
|> 
|> Up to the recent election Italy has had 50 years of Christian Democrat  
|> dominated govt. which has been credited with economic reform and defeating Red  
|> Brigade terrorism.  According to Paul Smee (he was going to dig out some  
|> figures) they're even ahead of Britain economically ! 

If you count the Italian underground economy, and assume that the
UK has no underground economy, then they are about equal.   But then,
why should they not be?   They have about the same population.

What is troubling about the Italian economy is that their years of
Government by compromise has led to a huge and growing Govt. debt.
They've been paying off so many pressure groups, and granting so
many un-earned raises to public "servants" that they now have the
highest rate of debt in Europe, about 140% of GNP (I think).   That
means, for example, that under the rules proposed after Maastricht,
the Italian Lira would not be allowed to join the proposed European 
currency.

This "Italy is wonderful" thing is another example of a propaganda
technique which is currently popular.   You take isolated statistics
from different European countries: German inflation, Italian growth,
Danish balance of payments, and then you compare them with the 
corresponding UK figures.   If you do that, and choose your statistics
carefully, you can make the UK look pretty bad.   

But each European country pays a price for its good statistics.   France
has high unemployment, Germany has a balance of payments deficit,
Italy has huge public debt.    So when you compare country for country,
things look a little better.   Not perfect, but not disastrous.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: The Vogon News Service: 08-Apr-92
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:17:30 GMT

Craig Cockburn writes:

	<><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><>

    		World News
    		----------

		Senator Bill Clinton has won the democratic primaries in 
		3 more states and is ahead in a fourth. However, Paul 
		Tsongas also attracted a significant share of the voting. 

Either Governor Clinton and Senator Tsongas, or, better, Bill Clinton and
Paul Tsongas. If you're going to give them titles, get them right. Oh yes,
and they were Democratic not democratic primaries -- believe me on this one.

Bill Clinton looks better every day, but he needs a pacemaker. Now that
Jerry Brown has fallen off the pace it will be important for Tsongas or
H Ross Perot to take up where brown left off. 

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Election Results
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:14:26 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr10.152026.29501@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>Once Foot 
>and Thatcher were no longer at their respective helms, the Cons and Labs 
>might just as well have been renamed Tweedledum & Tweedledee. As the 
>Observer put it "the Election is about who will get to be motored around 
>in chauffeured limosines." 

A catchy slogan, along the lines of "Whoever you vote for, the government
is elected", but similarly devoid of content.  How do you account for the
stock market jitters if they are so alike?  While it may be true that
Labour has moved rightward and the Tories left (from Thatcherism), there
is still a big difference.  The Tories actually espouse the ideology that
says if you are poor its your own fault, while Labour at least espouse
the ideology that the poor deserve help from the rest of society.  The
two are alike on the broad economic policies (socialism is off the
agenda), but the details differ.  And the details make a difference.
The Tories will continue to make Britain more like the US, with
privatized everything including health care, while Labour would make
Britain more like the rest of the EEC.  It's possible the Tories will
be restrained by the realities of Europe (i.e., Germany), but that's
hardly a reason to elect them.

Oh, and while we're at it Francis, how about cutting out the personal
invective?

Nigel
-- 
Nigel Goddard
goddard@b.gp.cs.cmu.edu
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Elections stats (2/5) Regional vote share
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:02:58 GMT
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

Share of the vote by region.
Source: The Guardian 11 Apr 92 (UK+NI), The Independent 11 Apr 92 (NI)

             Con      Lab     LDem       PC      SNP    Other  Turnout
London      45.3     37.1     15.1                        2.5     73.7
SE          54.5     20.7     23.4                        1.4     80.2
SW          47.6     19.2     31.4                        1.8     81.1
E Anglia    51.1     28.0     19.5                        1.5     80.0
E Midlands  46.6     37.4     15.3                        0.7     80.9
W Midlands  44.8     38.8     15.0                        1.5     78.2
Wales       28.6     49.5     12.4      8.8               0.7     79.7
NW          37.8     44.9     15.8                        1.5     77.3
Yks & H     37.9     44.3     16.8                        0.9     75.4
North       33.4     50.6     15.6                        0.5     76.4
Scotland    25.7     39.0     13.1              21.5      0.8     75.4
----------------------------------
UK          41.9     34.4     17.8


             Con   UUP  SDLP   DUP  Alliance  Sinn Fein  Others  Turnout
NI (Guard)  11.0  30.7  15.0  11.6      12.4       10.0     9.4     67.3
NI (Ind)     5.7  34.5  23.5  13.1       8.7       10.0     4.5      N/A

"Others" includes the Ulster Popular Unionist Party which won one seat.
The Alliance party is nothing to do with "The Alliance" - the grouping of
the Liberals and the SDP which put forward candidates in the 87 election.

I printed both the Guardian's and the Independent's breakdown of the
Northern Ireland results as there seemed to be some rather large
discrepancies.  They are in more agreement about the rest of the country.

--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
From: scrl@otter.hpl.hp.com (Simon Lewis)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:54:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Victory V lozenges
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

Victory V's were never the same anyway after they took the ether out.

Bring back *real* Victory V lozenges!

Simon.

From: arf@otter.hpl.hp.com (Andrew Farmer)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:14:49 GMT
Subject: Re: My final word
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

In soc.culture.british, uad1189@dircon.co.uk (Dave Yadallee) writes:


>   On April 9th, Keep the UK United.  Vote LDem.

	If I do, will you go away?

	arf
From: Steve.Varty@newcastle.ac.uk (Steve Varty)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: TORIES AND THE SELFISH,AROGANT ENGLISH
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:06:11 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:

>clg308@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:

>>                 singed Andy(a true scot)
>>P.S I aplogise to the English in the north,and Wales who must feel as fustrated
>>as Scotland.I also apologise to any labour supporters elsewhere in Britain
>>and ask them noy to take offence at my generalizations.

>A possible solution is to let the extreme north of England (eg Teesside,
>Tyneside ) vote on becoming part of Scotland.  After all if they did they
>would give a significant increase in the population of Scotland (say 20%).
>They also have a similar political culture.

But we could never talk like that :-)

Steve.



   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   =   From:                                       |      The Alarm      =
   =   Steve Varty  (steve.varty@uk.ac.newcastle)  |  Unsafe  1981-1991  =
   =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: albion@bnr.ca (Alan Buchanan)
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Originator: albion@bcrks63
Reply-To: alanbu@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:42:50 GMT


In article <1992Apr14.160032.20308@osf.org>, sp@mirabeau.osf.fr (Simon Patience) writes:

> 
> In addition, Italy's problem is not that it has PR, but that it has in
> the order of 50 parties. I always think people who cite Italy as a
> reason to use PR are grasping at straws considering the number of other
> countries in the world who use it perfectly satisfactorily.
> 

Although I cannot comment on the validity of the argument, one
report I read suggested that Italy had been fairly stable in the past 
few decades.

The view expressed was that although there had been many changes of 
cabinet, including prime minister, the political view had remained
relatively constant.

Perhaps a country that invents the Mafia can tolerate the cutting of
deals that was involved in forming coalitions.



                              Alan
--
Alan Buchanan       Bell-Northern Research, Ltd       Ph.: (613) 763-2750
Silicon Design      P.O. Box 3511, Station C          Fax: (613) 763-3970
  Methods           Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7  

alanbu@bnr.ca        

        Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.
                         - William Butler Yeats
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: News from Ambridge
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:29:12 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <7535@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, colin@cs.uq.oz.au (Colin Millerchip) writes:
> Can I add my lone cry to this appeal? 
> 	- Are Sid and Kathy still in flagrante? 
They're married, remember, and Cathy (well that's how I spell it) stopped
seeing her policeman lover before Christmas.

> 	- Has Mr. Archer's pig (Freda?) popped her clogs? 
She's still going I think

> 	- Is Ruth still sexually discriminated against by her hubby?
She still thinks she is. But I she is only a farmhand.

> 	- Has Mrs. Snell been the victim of a serial killer yet?
Alas no.

Other news:
Jennifer Aldridge has been having an affair with Roger Travers-Macy, her first
husband. Elizabeth Archer is pregnant by Cameron Fraser. He wants (-ed?) her to
have an abortion (they seem to have mysteriously got back together today).
Fraser is in big financial trouble. He has threatened the Grundys with
eveiction if they don't pay the rent within 8 weeks (they're only 500 pounds
short). He is still not selling Red House Farm to the Archers. Mike Tucker has
a new job as a feed sales rep. Pat and Tony haven't got soil association
approval for their new 22 acres. Nigel Pargetter is getting much more
succesful: Lizzie now works for him. And that's only scratching the surface of
the storylines....
Stephen
 
> Colin Millerchip.
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> |Colin Millerchip           | "And all this science I don't understand,|
> |University of Queensland   |  It's just my job five days a week"      |
> |colin@cs.uq.oz.au          |   - "Rocketman", Elton John              |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> --
> ________________________________________________________________________
> |Colin Millerchip           | "And all this science I don't understand,|
> |University of Queensland   |  It's just my job five days a week"      |
> |colin@cs.uq.oz.au          |   - "Rocketman", Elton John              |
From: gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: oh bugger
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:09:18 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: I'm at, not speaking for: Uni of Wales, College of Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
} Well, I'll be emigrating. Any recommendations? I hear New Zealand is
} nice.

In the pub last night, my fellow research students and I were
considering N.Z., Canada, Australia, Northern France, Germany.

Woe is us.

} Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu

Gedge
-- 
Geraint A Edwards, Computing PhD student.  From Windows to OS/2 v2.0 - 50 quid.
gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk  gedge%cm.cf.ac.uk@nsf.ac.uk  ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!cf-cm!gedge
Short quotes save money --- modem user here.  I pay for your graphic .sig's :-(
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6184 rec.arts.books:7868
From: smithj@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Jeremy Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:44:21 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon.

In article <s97boINNpui@agate.berkeley.edu> goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.030105.13771@oracorp.com> harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
>)-- 
>)Douglas Harper          harper@oracorp.com      (607) 277-6093 [ext 252]
>)#
>)Question for the net:  who said of the Holy Roman Empire that it was
>)neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire?
>
>	Wasn't it Voltaire?
>
>	(If not, then it must've been Disraeli. :-)
>
>-- 
>David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
>"Yes, netrek is very relaxing. The beauty, the calmness. It is being used
>experimentally to reduce blood pressure in patients at the Mayo Clinic."
>			-- Mark Hall, on alt.games.xtrek

Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press
voltaire1
 
VOLTAIRE 1694-1778     
 
Ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain
n'&eg.tait en aucune mani&ea.re ni saint, ni romain, ni empire. This
agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman
Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. 
Essai sur les Moeurs et l'Esprit des Nations (1769), lxx  
 
-- 
Jeremy |-) Smith	The Tao of Wayne and Garth: "Way!"