HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Sad to say...
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:39:24 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

I'm sad to say that I've been getting more and more disallusioned
about the future of BBSing in light of the kind of threads that have
been occuring here recently. But before I give up entirely and just
unsubscribe, I thought I would give it one more shot. 

Here's how it looks to me:

A lot of people think that BBSs should be free. I know when a couple
of friends and I started Aegis back in 1985 we sure thought so. We had
two kinds of 'free' in mind: non-copyrighted material that could be
freely read, copied, etc. and no fees to access the material. 

Achieving the first goal isn't so diffcult. Achieving the second
goal is impossible unless you take some decisions: find somebody who
will donate the time and money it takes to put up whatever people
using the system ask for; ask people to support the system in terms
of both time and money; put up whatever you can afford and let
people use it "as-is"; put up whatever you can afford and try and
convince others that what you've done is the only thing worth doing. 

IMHO the first three choices can live in peace and harmony: you
understand what the real-world options are, have decided what
part you want to play, and realize other people have made other
decisions and are going to be doing different things. It's always
interesting to keep up with what they are doing as maybe things will
changed. But it's not a question what's "right", "best", just what's
most appropriate for your situation.

I think the recent threads are the result of people having made the
last choice: it's not enough that they do what they've decided they
can afford to do, they want to try and convince others that it's the
Only Way and try and turn any discussion into a Religious Crusade in
favor of that decision. While the result may be somebody else's cup
of tea, I don't find it interesting, enjoyable, or useful and will
absent myself any further such pouring from the empty into the void.

Thanks for listening,

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: Coherent Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:10:35 GMT

jwiegand@moe.eng.temple.edu () writes:
>*bzzzt!* AT&T/USL owns Unix- just ask MIT, CMU, and BSDI. What people
>*think* it is doesn't matter as long as someone owns a name and vigourously
>defends that ownership. Cannon doesn't sell xerox machines, they sell
>copiers. Linux must not be confused with a commercial product if it is to
>remain free.

*bzzzt!* The company called Cannon makes and sells various sorts of
electrical connectors. The company called Canon makes, amongst other
things, photocopiers.

-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)		"int - God's own type"
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:57:27 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <Eeh0M0i00VBKAGp0hh@andrew.cmu.edu>, ks3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kenton Shaver) writes:

| access.  Do any sysops out there actually trace calls?

No, but I will get caller ID when I can. It isn't hard to run a script
which flags calls to an account from several numbers. And would you want
to know if someone was using your account having gotten the password
somehow? Good, so would I. So When I can do that I will. There are many
ways to get a user's password, most users are so dumb, unfortunately.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.dcom.modems
From: wolfgang@netcom.com (Wolfgang Henke)
Subject: Re: RE-USRobotics SysOp deal
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 05:28:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh) writes:
: in the next few years?  Will it be those who offer faster proprietary 
: modulations before V.fast is ready, or those who jump the gun on V.fast, as 
: USR did with V.32bis? 

There are some manufacturers who where before USR in introducing V.32bis
modems to market.        





-- 
   _________________________________________________________________________
   Wolfgang Henke        wolfgang@henke.sf-bay.org       wolfgang@netcom.com
From: rjus@uonline.com (ren_just)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: TBBS is too conservative!
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:29:13 GMT
Organization: Just Computers!

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
: 
: >larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
: >>look how long it took for zmodem?  And, from what I have heard, TBBS
: >>still doesn't support quoting or a full screen editor -- and this
: >>is 1992!
: 
: >No, both of those are definitely wrong.  It has quoting and a full
: >screen editor.
: 
: Hmm.. 2 of the local boards are running the latest and they
: don't have either --
: 
: -- 
: Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
: keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

TBBS *DEFINITELY* supports a full screen editor.  Possibly your folks that
are running the local systems don't have the latest version or have the
feature disabled.

Randy Just                                        internet: uonline@infoserv.com
From: robert@wixer.cactus.org (Robert Cope)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: WWIV..HA!
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:50:08 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications

In article <BuH7ys.AsH@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
>
>Wrong.  Most better doors support multiple file formats, including WWIV,
>and utilities exist to convert CHAIN.TXT into any other format.  

Lets not forget the fact that when you register WWIV you get the source to it.
Once you've got that, you can do just about anything you want to it, including
putting in one of the mods that creates other types of door files...

robert
-- 
Robert Cope                             If I had anything useful or funny to
cactus.org!wixer!fence!robert           to say, it would probably be on these
robert@fence.cactus.org                 three lines.  But I don't.
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re2: Fidonet sux
Keywords: Fidonet
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 13:01:35 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

>elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>It's just an ego trip for these guys and that's about it.  They're looking at
>their positions all wrong - they're there to help the network to the best of
>their ability.  When it becomes to much for them, they should stop
>volunteering.  Nope, they like that neat /0 number and the bully-boss power
>that comes with it.

IMHO, that's all a result from the structure of the net: hierarchical. The
nodelist reflects that. I was member of a FidoNet Technology Network, i.e. a
network that uses FidoNet software to transport messages. And the ZC thought
it was a Good Idea(tm) that the nodes of the people who started the net were
at the top of the list. So they changed their nodenumbers. There was no
technical need to do that whatsoever. It's as if the nodenumbers have a magical
meaning.

The people at the top have the power to control the mail and newsflow and the
power to add or delete people from the nodelist. And power corrupts as FidoNet
proves every day. But there are plenty of FidoNet Technology Networks in
Holland that it isn't a big deal not being part of FidoNet(tm). Most of these
smaller networks have a rather loose policy, some have no policy at all. In 
most cases the sysops cooperate instead of fight and netmail/echomail is free
and is delivered as it should be.

Greetings,
Peter Busser
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: dan@caofao.meca.polymtl.ca (Daniel Gour)
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Genie Mecanique
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:24:52 GMT

In article <IegHFIW00VBK8=UlBD@andrew.cmu.edu> ks3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kenton Shaver) writes:
>hermit@cats.UCSC.EDU (William R. Ward) writes:
>> I've noticed that on a lot of BBS's, the sysops tend to go through a
>> lot of effort to identify users.  Things like auto-callback, extremely
>> limited access, requiring real names, etc. all strike me as overly
>> nosy.
>
>I could not agree with you more.
>I've always assumed that this info was sold to mail-order companies,
>but who really gets it?  Why on earth is it needed?  
>
>KWS

   Well, I run a BBS and I use auto-callback.  The main reason I use it is
to avoid people getting on my BBS under multiple accounts.  Even then,
people with two phone lines can get two accounts, or validate from 
someone else's phone, but they can't get new lines forever.

   Also, it is nice to know that if you ever need to talk to the user
(for example, he forgot his password and can't get in, so you can't
leave him a message telling him what to do now), you know that you can
call that phone number and there's a good chance you'll be able to contact
him/her.

   That is where the real name comes in...  If you only have the alias,
it can lead to some weird calls.  I don't particularly like the idea of
calling a number for the first time and asking to speak to the Sex Machine...

   So maybe you can call it nosy, but I feel those steps are needed to
run a system well and be able to give good service to the users.

Dan.
-- 
----------
dan@caofao.meca.polymtl.ca            The KISS principle:  Keep It Simple .Sig
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: <LTK-MJH@finou.oulu.fi>
Subject:    SuperBBS
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:09:04 GMT

Do you plan to start a BBS service in your PC ? If so, a software called
SuperBBS v1.15 is worth considering!

I have a BBS running and it has three nodes. When I was looking for a good
program I found SuperBBS v1.15 written by Aki Antman and Risto Virkkala.
It was the most versatile one when it comes to giving access to different
file and message areas and controlling up- and downloads. It also supports
multilingual menus and texts. It is easy to install and configure.

If you are interested in this piece of software, ask me for further information
which I certainly give with pleasure!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marko Hotti                        mail: ltk-mjh@finou.oulu.fi
Student of Medicine                SBBS: +358-81-5306428
University of Oulu, FINLAND
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: paul@ais.org (Paul Vargo)
Subject: well since I havn't seen a faq.....
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: us
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:15:57 GMT

I'm in an organization (ACM).  At a meeting we decided were going
to set up a BBS.

I would like to here from you about the PD software available
for BBS's.  We are not to sure about what we want it to run
on (Unix or Dos), but it will definately be a 486 machine.

Can you email with advice on what OS and PD software to use.
If we use Unix, what PD unix OS should we use.

Thanks in advance.
Paul

Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.internet,comp.bbs.misc
From: njoddson@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Nick Oddson)
Subject: a BBS gateway to internet
Keywords: internet BBS
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 05:06:54 GMT

Hi,
  I'm looking for information on how to go about getting a connection to
internet (or fidonet or whatever) from a BBS... the costs involved, the 
maintenance required, what I have to do to set it up, and the like.  The
BBS is in the area code 807 (Northwestern Ontario, Canada) in a remote
town with now educational facilities (except a small division of Lakehead)

Is this a feasible idea, I only really want to be able to have the BBS users
send email to the internet, but ideally I suppose some news, ftp sites or such
would also be useful.

I've seen some local (and LD) boards that have a fidonet connection, and I
guess it can't be all THAT expensive...
 
Any information welcome - contact me email @ njoddson@descartes.uwaterloo.ca

Thanks again!

-- 
--
Nick Oddson -- University of Waterloo - Canada
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Dialing out question with a LD phone card service
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz (dogbowl)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 15:52:29 Y
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS

trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted Wagner) writes:

> 	In the dorms, we have a calling card ID number
> which we have to dial in order to call LongDistance.  My question
> is this....how do you place the LD ID number into the calling sequence?

Put it it an dialling prefix string

>       I have tried calling the number, then quickly hanging up so my 
> PC would pick up the ring, but no luck.  I have tried
> to place the number in the dialing section of Procomm.
>
> 	IS there a program for the modem that allows for LD
> ID numbers...and works?  I have had great luck with Procomm on a 
> local level.  But, I would love to get outside of this calling
> area.
> 

I don't know about Procomm, but both Qmodem and Telemate allow you
to set up a dialling prefix ( mainly for access to alternative LD carriers,
rather than producing ID numbers)
Here's an example from my setup:

  Sequence A = 050 0
  BBS foo    = 4 569 5695

  My dialler sequence for BBS foo is "A 4 569 5695"

  what the modem dials is 050 0 4 569 5695

According to the documentation, the prefix dialling string can be
up to 14 digits.( maybe they did take ID numbers into account after all )

I havn't used Procomm for a couple of years, as I found it wasn't that good.
However it should incorporate these features. If not, get one that does.



dogbowl at The Dawghaus BBS  ( +64 6 357-9245 )
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re2: Sad to say...
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 13:42:24 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

>attempt to set up gateways.  Their rules are so tight (they demand 'ownership'
>of everything that comes through their backbone, therefore total control) that

Oh, that's nice. Send a carload of uuencoded copyrighted stuff on the net and
then call the police... ;-)))))

>chat/forsale group between fido and wwiv failed because the fido sysops didn't
>want alias users in their echos.

I can understand that.

>a new group in V-Net, some role-playing game or another, and its CRC value
>coincided with the fidonet home brewing echo.

What have two equal CRC values to do with echomail areas? 

>game.  Gawd, you could see the flames leaping from the monitor at me when I
>read my mail the next day!

<grin>

>bucks to ld carriers.  Usenet's reliance on institutional systems for the
>backbone is one of the reasons it's so much more widespread.

Add to that the lack of policies etc. So people can use the net for things THEY
think are important instead of doing things OTHERS think are important.

Greetings,
Peter Busser
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:42:44 GMT

In article <BuHwGC.CEF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> bjpocock@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Beastor the Mad) writes:
>
>SO what do you do... put up an ELITE section then CALL THE COPS everytime 
>someone downloads it?
>

Just like Fnord, you're trying to put words into someone else's mouth...
no one here ever suggested calling the police.  Such a policy would be
incredibly stupid, as you put yourself at risk also.  It should be
fairly obvious to *most* people that the practice of collecting real
names is so you can point the police at the real culprit when they are
threatening you.  Not calling the police... but when they show up at
your door (after finding out about the illegal activities through their
own sources), you can at least give them the names of the true
criminals.
-- 
  "It begins here--an army--to bring sense to a world plagued by worse than
   thieves and murderers. This will be a good life... good enough."
             Bruce Wayne, "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns"
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: TBBS is very limited
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:53:26 GMT

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>More fabricated facts from you on TBBS.  Look, I can understand your

>it's not fabricated,  TBBS requires eSoft approved modules which
>link into TBBS.  TBBS multiline users can not spawn external DOS
>applications - period.


Now you're changing your tune.  Add the stipulation "if they want to
keep the other lines up" and I'd even have agreed with that, but
that's not what you said.  You said, "no support for external third
party non eSoft approved applications" which is wrong.  If you want to
say "external DOS" etc., that's correct.


-- 
I don't know why it is that the religious never ascribe common sense to God.
From: rjus@uonline.com (ren_just)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: TBBS is very limited
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:24:54 GMT
Organization: Just Computers!

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
:
: dBase applications wasn't what we were referring to.  How about DOS
: applications -- Doors, etc?  No need to answer, we all are aware that
: TBBS ML doesn't support the chaining of external applications - since
: that would require the machine being brought down -- likewise, for example,
: if a TBBS ML sysop wanted to run netnews, he would have to bring the 
: BBS down to gate/toss/scan using ufgate on a regular basis -- making
: TBBS a cludge of a solution.
: 
: A better solution would be to run real UNIX - which was (is) intended
: for this type of work.  TBBS can't handle the large jobs requiring 
: complex operations and networking.
: 
: -- 
: Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
: keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

Larry, you continue to make the assumption that all BBS operators want to 
run netnews and doors.  As I pointed out earlier, I work with corporations
in the installation of customer support systems and so far not a single 
client has asked for something that was outside of the TBBS plus TDBS
combination's capabilities.  

You are quick to point out that TBBS/TDBS is an *expensive* solution.  I
really wish you would add up the associated costs of a UNIX system.  First
of all, the places I go into use Novell networks.  If I wanted to setup a
link between a UNIX system and Novell I end up buying additional software
to facilitate this link.  This software isn't so cheap either.  Now that
the link is done, the employee(s) that are going to run the system would
now need to learn UNIX.  I don't think they realistically would want to
do that when they already have a strong knowledge of DOS.  So now we have
the associated costs of a learning curve for a new operating system.

You keep mentioning that you can't have doors.  Well, most of the doors
software I have seen is of very, very little value to a company.  How
many of their clients want to spend their time playing blackjack online.
Usually want they do want to do however is have access to a database.  And
TDBS fits this bill very nicely.  Yes it is dBASE III+ code, but guess
what?  I can find dBASE programmers a heck of a lot cheaper than I can
find database programmers for a UNIX box.  And that ends up being more
cost effective for the client.

Software should be chosen to provide a solution for a particular problem
and not a consultant's OS religion.  Time and time again, TBBS/TDBS has
provided this solution for my customers.
 
And in case you are wondering...  I run a UNIX BBS at home using AT&T UNIX
to pull in my feeds because of the same reasons you stated that it does a
good job of doing that sort of thing.  But once again, review the 
paragraph above.  "Software should be chosen to provide a solution for a
particular problem".
 
Randy Just
Just Computers!
uonline@infoserv.com
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: pands@cix.compulink.co.uk (P & S Ltd - Accounts Dept)
Subject: Galacticom
Reply-To: pands@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:06:00 +0000

Does anyone have a contact for,  or information about Galacticom?

Thanks,

--------------------------< Who 'zat >-----------------------------------
    Paul Wilson,  P-and-S Ltd, P O Box 54, Macclesfield, SK10 5EH, UK
                     pands@cix.compulink.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux, fee for access. (was Sad to say...)
Keywords: Fidonet
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:14:21 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

>randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:

>>> In a later message, either Larry or Edward mentions that they had to support
>>> their Fidonet NEC's phone bill for echomail (newsgroups).

>>That's because Larry charges for news and mail feeds, which most people give
>>away for free.

IMHO this is kind of really irresponsible remark that lends to the
bickering that's been raising the noise to signal ratio around here. 

Of the something like 40,000 machines on USENET how many give away
feeds for free? And what criteria do you use for "most"?

>does uunet give them away for free?  How about uupsi?  
>
>usually those who offer reliable feeds charge.  Those one want a reliable
>feed, usually don't mind paying

IMHO this is a definite factor: not only what you get, but how
reliable/timely is what you get. 

For example, when I was in the U.S. last spring I found a great,
free, usenet and email site within my daughters local dialing area.
I tested it out and found I could send mail to my home machine for
nothing!  But, uuhhh, it only took about 10-20 calls to get through
the busy signals and mail took 3 day to get there. I set her up with
a TYMNET link and over which she calls Japan directly and it gets
charged to my VISA card. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: gabe@pfbbs.uucp (Gabe Helou)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 01:16:26 CDT
Reply-To: gabe@angus.mi.org
Organization: The Permanent Floating BBS


Re: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)

How much more time are people planning to waste replying to John De 
Armond?  In case you are not familiar with this type of person, their 
routine runs along the following lines:

    -    Find a newsgroup to infest.
    -    Begin to make rude, obnoxious and inane postings.  
    -    When a number of other participant voice objections to their
         messages, react sharply with as much insulting langauge
         as possible.
    -    They eventually disappear.  This may be due to sysadmin action 
         or they may get bored and decide to look for a different group 
         of people to offend.

Do not worry about this person.  If you do not respond to any of his 
postings, they are likely to disappear out of shear bodedom.  Think back 
to college or possibly high school.  How many of you have done 
behavioral research with rats? Simple behavoiral modification 
experiments where a rat is rewarded for behavoir X and the rate of the 
behavior X increases?  Withdraw the reward and the rate of behavior 
decreases.  With the ra in question, attention seems to be the reward.  
Do not give it to him.

In keeping with my own advise, this is probably the last you will hear 
from me on this subject.

--
Gabe Helou (pfbbs!gabe@angus.mi.org -or- ...uunet!angus!pfbbs!gabe)
The Permanent Floating BBS [Catch us when you can] ----------------------------