From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: To all who read a.s.a.r. 
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:42:55 GMT


In a previous article, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) says:

>bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>: this.  Furthermore, I think when most people tease, it usually
>: is an emotional need that somehow needs to be fullfilled.  Sex
>
>Yes, but how many people realize this, especially men?

Maybe it's about time they did.  Maybe that would cut down on date
rape and child abuse and violent rape --- if people learnt
what it means when a person is flirtatios.  Anyone
from birth to death has a right to say no, even if they flirt,
even if they lead anyone on.  I don't care how old you are.
And this is something EVERYONE needs to learn.

>
>: is a complicated thing...   And for sexual abuse survivors,
>: all of this is magnified about 100 times over.  Sex is no longer 
>: clear.  It is so intermixed with hundreds of other feelings..
>
>With sexual abuse survivors, the lines between sexual behavior and
>non-sexual behavior become blurred.  Some get into a horrendous
>"programming loop" as it were: "I need to give sex to get love, but
>I am repulsed by sex because of my abuse, yet I need love, so..."
>Some suppress their sexual sides altogether.  People who have not been
>abused have less trouble fitting their sexual behavior into their lives,
>while survivors must struggle with this every single minute, it seems.

agreed.

>
>A case in point: I was with an abuse survivor this weekend.  It was one
>of those sticky "first meeting" type of things, and even under the best
>of circumstances things can get hairy.  She shut down.  Incommunicado
>about what she was feeling, what she was thinking, etc.  Understandable,
>of course, but what's a guy to do?  If I get mad, that leaves it wide
>open to be interpreted as "I'm pissed at you because you're not sleeping
>with me." (With survivors, often their entire daily life revolves around
>the issue of sex: either getting/giving it, or avoiding it).  So I did the
>best thing I could under the circumstances - I kept my mouth shut (for the
>most part, anyway), and just held her.  Message: I don't need sex with you
>to love you and care about you.
>
>I just hope the message got through.

sounds like you did a good thing.  I hope the message got through
too...

>
>: I think it is very appropriate to blame someone that has
>: abused you.  It is irrelevant whether or not they were abused.
>: Putting the blame on them, instead of yourself, is a very big,
>: and important step.
>
>But that's only the first step.  Eventually, forgiveness of the perp is
>going to be necessary for you to complete your healing.  Imagine how
>skewed your life would be (or perhaps already is) if you carry around
>all this emotional baggage.  To put it another way, you are trading one
>set of emotional baggage (guilt, etc.) for another (hate for the perp).
>Hate may keep you warm at night, but it will eventually consume you. :(

I don't see why this is necessarily true.  I can't
quote exact reasons (until I go home and look some up) but according
to a lot of intelligent people (including courage to heal) 
forgiveness is not necessary...

>
>: Way too many times does this become a form of denial:  "If I 
>: forgive this person, then it is over and I can go on...".  This
>: usually isn't true.  In the realm of child abuse, far more
>: has to happen than forgiveness.  The phrased "forgive and forget"
>: is a big culpret for people denying abuse.  They "fogive and
>: forget," then they go on, and never deal with the issues at hand.
>
>That isn't true forgiveness.  Firgiveness is usually the last phase of the
>healing process -- never the first.  That's called denial, like you said.

agreed.  but a lot of people think it is forgiveness.

>
>: IMHO, forgiveness is not necessary.  Anger can be a very empowering 
>: thing.  I have no intention of forgiving the man that raped me.
>: If it happens, it happens, but I don't intend to try for it.
>: The anger I feel for him does not eat me up inside, it empowers
>: me.  It makes me feel like I am worth it.  I deserve to get angry.
>
>You base your self-esteem on anger?  Not a good idea, IMHO.  You "deserve"
>to get angry?  Hmmm...certainly you have that right -- we all do, but the
>use of the word "deserve" rings alarm bells in my head.  Are you saying that
>you "deserve" to get angry because that outlet had been denied you earlier?

No, I don't base my self-esteem on anger.  I base my anger
on self-esteem.  The fact that I feel good about myself, and the fact
that I feel I am a worthwhile person gives me the ability to get angry
when need be.

>
>For most of my childhood, if I got angry, I was not allowed to express that.
>I was told, "you'd better scratch your mad spot and get glad!"  It took me
>a long time to figure out the idea of "appropriate anger".

Ohhh...  be too.  I was basically told (not in so many words, but...)
that I was a horrible, terrible person if I got angry.  Doesn't
matter if someone beat me upside the head, I was not allowed to
be angry.  My mother didn't think I was worth enough to get angry 
about.  That is why I DESERVE to be angry.  It WAS denied me.
I DESERVE to be cared about enough for someone (including
me) to get angry over someone hurting me.

>
>: Someone did something terrible to me, and I deserve to be 
>: angry.  Anger is a very healing thing.  Even if one possess
>: anger for all of their life, it is healing...  IMHO, when
>
>I doubt it.  Anger can be a tool for transformation, giving you the will
>(and the courage) to make needed change, but when it's task is done, why
>not let it go?  I think you will see the wisdom of this after a while.

All I am saying is that you shouldn't have to let it go.  If you
are ready and willing to let it go, and it has done you all
the good it can, then fine, let it go.  There is no point in keeping
it inside you to the point that it becomes destructive.  But for
some people, I think they can have their anger and use it in an
enpowering way.  For some people they need to let it go.  But why
ask someone to let go of their anger before they are ready?  Even
if they will never be ready...  I agree with you that it can become
destructive...  but I do not thnk that is always the case.  And I
don't think people should be ashamed of their anger, and asked to
diminish it as soon as possible.  For some people, it can last a 
lifetime, and still be healthy, IMHO.

>
>: anger is held inside and one tries to forgive before they are
>: ready, then this anger tends to come out in other, non-productive
>: ways.  Anger directed at the right person, is very healthy.
>
>Anger should be like the weather.  It should flow through you, expressing itself
>in appropriate ways, then let go.  It should vanish.  Anger held, anger denied,
>is a sure prescription for illness.

agreed.  In my experience, my anger is not constant.  It goes in
cycles.  Sometimes I need it.  But sometimes I feel compasion.
I don't try to hold on to it.  I let it come and go as needed.
But I don't try to supress it either...

>
>: A lot of times, figuring out who is to "blame," or who is
>: responsible is a very necessary and important thing.  Primarily
>: because children, when abused, tend to blame themselves.  It
>: is a defnese mechanism to find all the reasons why it was your 
>: fault.  Because of that, I think it is VERY important to attribute
>: blame (or responsiblity) where it is necessary.  It is about
>: recognizing that you did nothing wrong...
>: It is very important.
>
>For a first step, certainly.  But as you go through your healing, you may
>come to find that there is no one to blame for anything.

Ummmm...  Yes it is an important first step.  And maybe it
becomes useless after a certain point.  But you could never convince
me that the man that raped me is not to blame for what he did.
I could care a less about what may or may not have happend to him.
Granted I may not need to think about who is to blame...  I may be
secure enough with myself to not need that validation.  But it
won't change the fact that he was to blame...


>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
>"In wildness is the preservation of the world."  - Henry David Thoreau
>** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)   801/269-8125
>

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|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |