Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Soc.culture.Indian or Islam or Hinduism??
From: rbhatnag@uceng.UC.EDU (raj bhatnagar)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:39:32 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Aug13.183044.2677@menudo.uh.edu> mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.173343.17355@uceng.UC.EDU>, rbhatnag@uceng.UC.EDU (raj bhatnagar) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug13.154013.6751@menudo.uh.edu> mece1e3@Jane.UH.EDU writes:

>>
>>You have to be very precise about what you mean. 
>>
>>Islam and Christianity are unique "protocols" for an individual to 
>>communicate with his/her spiritual authority. Hinduism is a culture 

>As I have said countless times purpose of all religions is to merge your
>ego in the Supreme and attain salvation.
>

*Mine* and every living creature's consciousness is already a part of
the *Supreme Consciousness*. I can't do anything to change that
relationship.

>To do it you have to meditate:

Meditation is only a means of concentrating one's mental energies
on either the relationship with the supreme consciousness or any other
topic. Businessmen meditate on the profitable ventures and Physicists
do it on problems of their interest.

>Your ego can reach the Supreme only if first becomes a part of another
>elevated consciousness: 
. . . . . . . . . . 
>If you haven't taken it Mr. Bhatnagar you are wasting your time as a
>Hindu. Problem is to find a Proper Guru. In this age we can only trust
>Gurus those who have been proved beyond doubt like Krishna or Bahaullah.
>or Jesus or Muhammad.

>>NOW, in the above context, how can "Bahai faith" be properly placed?

>Hope the earlier part helps

No, your answer did not help at all.
What is bahai faith? Is it a "protocol" for establishing a connection
between an individual's ego and the supreme consciousness, or it is a
social order preaching co-existence of various protocols?


In the smallest number of words, would you please tell us how 
to differentiate between 
1. A Bahai and a non-Bahai
2. A Bahai and a Muslim
3. A Bahai and a Christian
4. A Bahai and a Hindu.


Please, don't give a non-answer such as "a Bahai is a Hindu is a Muslim
is a Christian . . ."


>>Well, As per my belief, there never was, and will never be
>>- Either a God,
>Oh, if a Supreme consciousness doesn't exist: what's Salvation?

Is God = Supreme Consciousness(SC)?


>Agreed: but my humble reason tells me the Supreme consciousness has put me
>here: though you can always bring Charvaka in: I don't see how you can be
>a Hindu without recognizing a Supreme Consciousness
>

No, SC has not put you here. You are it. (Tat tvam asi) Remember the
phrase "Aham Brahmasmi." I am a constituent of the SC. Oh yes, I do recognize
SC. 

The concept of SC is very similar to that of humanity - It is from me and
I am from it. I don't have to do anything special to become a part of
humanity - I remain a part despite any protestations. So, take rest, 
eat, enjoy, be merry, and don't worry about the merger of your ego into 
that of SC.


>Agreed but because God will reveal them in stages when they are ready for it.

Wrong. We, the humans, will understand any secrets of nature or SC when we
make efforts for it. SC's will is afterall our will because we are its
parts.

>You have to work of course. No free lunch. 

Never disputed that one!

>This is the "Lila" Mr. Bhatnagar:

This i snot lila, this is the simplest fact of the world.


>I am surprised such a "pandit" of Hinduism does not know what "Lila" means.

I am no pandit of anything, and Hinduism is not something prescribed by some
rulebooks.  Hinduism is merely the name of that live civilizational process
which took root and then developed in India and keeps investigating all 
aspects of philosophy, spirituality, materialism,
and any other aspects of interest to Hindus, and keeps passing the ever
growing wealth of these results to the successive generations. Each generation
of Hindus is free to draw from this vast repository from the past or make new
additions. 


>the UNIVERSAL TRUTH is that SUPREME CONSCIOUSNESS exists

If that is all then I agree with you. But now leave it to me
to deal with it and don't tell me that Bahai or non-Bahai
beliefs about this SC are also part of the Universal Truth.


>>DO NOT WAIT FOR MESSENGERS, BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NONE.

>There will always be: infinite in no.

Keep waiting, if thats what you believe in. I won't stop you,
but please stop telling me about these so-called messengers 
because I don't think they are in any way better connected to
SC that any other individual is. Better philosophers and 
reformers they may be, but then I have my own criteria for
picking philosophies and reforms.

So stop mentioning about the messengers to others. OK?
Deal?


>Only that you are under the Supreme delusion or the Maya which makes you
>thing that you are the Supreme the devil of JCI tradition: the Mara of
>Buddhism

What about "Aham Brahmasmi?"



>Now will you explain from where on earth did you get the idea that the path
>you are following is Hinduism. 

Hinduism is what Hindus decide to follow, and not what is prescribed in 
some books. And as I stated earlier, Hindus are those who consider themselves
linked to the civilizational process that evolved in India.

>Can you give me name of a single saint who
>taught what you told. I think everybody taught what I told. 

You seem to have forgotten about "tat tvam asi" anmd 'Aham Brahmasmi."

>And where are
>the Hindu pandits who do not want to listen to a "Bahai" when Hinduism tells
>you have to listen to everybody from an ant to elephant: which a Bahai always
>does listens to everybody from native-Americans to Muslims
>

You first have to precisely circumscribe a Bahai from a non-Bahai and only
then the above will be meaningful.

>Arindam
>


---raj