From: david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:41:00 GMT
Organization: University of Absurdity

In article <1992Aug12.141058.10611@javelin.sim.es.com> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
[ stuff about economic implications of large gas tax removed ]
>
>This idea of course overly penalizes those who cannot reasonably be
>expected to ride bicycles -- old people, disabled & handicapped, or
>who live an inordinate amount of distance from their jobs.  It is a
>stupid idea proposed on an annual basis by narrow-minded, immature,
>egocentric individuals.
>

I stayed out of this thread the last time Bob defended the use of
cars in such a manner, but the tone of this post seems quite disturbing.
Bob, I have enjoyed many of your postings over the years, and this is not 
intended to be a flame, but an invitation for thought.

I'm fairly certain you have heard these questions before, but....

Is the use of cars subsidized in any way through forms of taxation other 
than current gas taxes ?

Is oil artificially cheaper due to tax subsidies for the oil companies
from the federal government ?

Do automobiles cause damage to the atmosphere, and are these emissions
a health hazard to plants, animals, and humans ?

Do drivers solely pay for all the costs of roads and maintenance, and for the 
damages incurred to the environment and others health ?

Is it fair to next generation to burden them with the cleanup of a 
trashed environment so that we can continue the along the same
paths because it is more practical to do so (or impractical
to do otherwise) ?

If it is unfair to elderly, handicapped, or folks who live far away
from work to increase the price of gas, then, yet is it fair 
to continue to subsidize a activity detrimental to the health 
of the very planet we live on ?

Although some may have suggested  a large enough gas tax to effectively
ban cars, others have suggested that drivers pay the actual costs of
operating their vehicles, with some form of a gas tax as one
way of implementing such costs (a la Dan Mocsny). This does NOT mean
a call to ban cars or trucks, only that they pay their share.

Is it fair to charge bike, bus and train commuters through federal,
state, and sales taxes so that the handicapped, elderly, or far away 
from their work folks can pay for less than their actual costs for 
their forms of transportation ? Seems like the current situation is 
unfair to folks who live close to their work, ride public transportation, 
bicycles, etc.

Bob and others, how do you propose to pay for your costs of driving
if not through a gas tax ?

Living far away from your work may not be such an insurmountable
obstacle for commuting on gas, even if the actual costs are paid by
vehicle occupants (notice the plural). For example, some residents
of Peachtree City, 35 miles south of Atlanta in a semi-rural area, have
banded together and now run two mini-buses to get to downtown
Atlanta everyday. Both buses are full almost everyday, so there must
be some advantage to this form of commuting. If you car-pool, would 
the costs of a more realistic gas price be such a burden to persons 
in rural areas ? Even pickup trucks have room for at least two occupants.

A gas tax is a suggested way of equalizing the current transportation
policies which subsidize SINGLE OCCUPANT cars, encourages the consumption of
scarce resources, destroys forests and wildlife habitation to build new
or enlarge existing roadways, and contributes to a polluted environment.
Maybe there could be other ways to equalize costs, such as adding
roadway/highway costs, oil subsidies and environmental funding to the 
initial cost of purchase of an automobile.

As for the economic side affects of a *realistic* price of gas:

If the U.S. can employ people building/selling/repairing cars,
can the U.S. not employ people to build/sell/repair trains,
bicycles, buses, etc, if there is a demand ? 

Yes, there is a price to be paid to make such changes in our lives.
But what price tag do you put on clean air, clean water, a clean environment ?
Can we continue to compromise environmental issues for our own convenience ?

Georgia is not a progressive state by any means, but their are now
DOT plans to convert abandoned railways into commuter lines in the
next decade, all going to rural areas, such as Blue Ridge in
north Georgia, Macon in south Georgia, Rome and Carrolton in
west Georgia, etc. Such changes can be made possible with a 
change in attitude, an attitude which intends to find ways to
improve the situation, rather than dismissing change as impractical
or unfair.

Change may come at a price, and may hurt some more than others,
but is it "narrow-minded, immature, [or] egocentric" to suggest
ways that we can improve our environment, our health, and our lives
by making proposals aimed at decreasing our dependency on a scarce 
(and harmful when burned) resource ? 

Bob and others' posts seem to demonstrate a yearning for the status quo, 
that we cannot improve on the situation with the environment and dependency
on scarce resources, that there are no reasonable alternatives,
(i.e. I can't move closer to work), so don't disturb our current 
subsidized form of transportation. Any changes would be too
impractical. I give up, it can't be done, it still won't be fair
to everybody, so screw it and everyone one who suggests ways to change.

Kinda like - The Berlin Wall will never fall, the Soviet empire's
dominance is inevitable, change is impractical, let's just give 
up and accept our lot and discourage the immature and narrow-minded 
individuals in the minority from seeking freedom and improvement
of their lives.

Note that this is just my interpretation of the mood of his post; 
I invite Bob to share his visions on improving the environment,
reducing oil consumption and pollution, and more the the point
in rec.bicycles, improving our riding and commuting experience.

Yeah, maybe visions of a cleaner, healthier, and safer environment
come from immature and narrow-minded individuals, but here goes anyway....

        Mother Earth has given us some great places to ride our bikes. 
        What can we do to show Her our respect ?

I feel that if we don't make an effort to pay for our way now, 
many more will have to pay dearly later on. 


-- 
David R. Mayne         1372 Normandy Dr. NE             Atlanta, GA 30306
david@wmms.UUCP        (404) 876-0943        ...!gatech!bagend!wmms!david