From: vnguyen@adobe.com (Vuong Nguyen)
Subject: [POL] Re: Normalization w/ Hanoi
Organization: Test
Distribution: World
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:13:04 GMT

 
The enclosing article sounds very familiar the logic that Hanoi usually
given as a pretext to defend its monopoly power.
(are you a "Du ho.c sinh" or "Nghie^n cu+'u sinh", Van Dao Mai?)
 
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In article <1992Sep29.082748.23088@cc.uow.edu.au>, Van Dao Mai writes:
>>I smell this American fascist as a very typical little North American
>>who understands everything but what beyond his nose. With all the
>>illnesses of the so-called Western democracies, North American will
>>be soon sold out on their American dream.
>>
>>A country like Vietnam cannot afford a democracy of the Western style.
>>Looking what Western companies have done to Thailand, the Philippines,
>>etc ... The human condition of an average American or Australian or
>>French is simply pathetic. This is condition is infinitely better than
>>what many Westerners plan for third world countries. I have seen
>>young Australian kids becoming empty-headed. They know only how
>>to look for Coca Cola, food and sex.         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  So, you believe the democracy just teach people about that?
  Sorry, those fancy stuffs are NOT elements of democracy.  In the
  so-called "Vie^.t Nam DA^N CHU? Co^.ng Ho`a" and "Co^.ng Ho`a Xa~ Ho^.i
  Chu? Nghi~a Vie^.t Nam (now, it lacks democracy word)", there are also
  many kids who only know how to bribe, how to lie, how to steal, how to
  look for Jet Cigarettes, Dream motocycles, model clothes, expensive meals
  and sex ..  I don't blame them, they are the victims of communism,
  Living under such regime, they have no future, they have no choice,
  they must live for themselves first (realism) .........
 
>>As I believe that Australia is still a much better country for kids to
>>grow up in, I have little doubt that other countries like the US,
>>France, Italy, etc ... are much worse.
  "DDi mo^.t nga`y dda`ng, ho.c mo^.t sa`ng kho^n", I urge you to take
  time to travel to these countries.  It would help you better to understand
  than just read the books.  (I hope "DDa.i Su+' Qua'n" will permit you)
  In the "Hoa Xuye^n Tuye^'t", Bu`i Ti'n, a 45 years communist-follower,
  a frequent traveler, was impressed by living standards, education,
  social services .... at France.  He said all things that he has seen
  are against what he has been taught.
  So, don't believe or doubt.  It wouldn't help you.
 
>>Plato has pointed out clearly that democracy has many illnesses. The
>>major illness is that it is characterised by the wish of the mobs who
>>do not necessarily know what good for them. Therefore democracy tend
>>to suffer disunity, selfishness, and waste of resources.
  You really have a good memory about what "political teacher" taught you.
  But sorry, garbage in, garbage out.
  At Plato's era, people knew democracy as the wish of the mobs, no more
  no less.  And that simple believe didn't help people for thousands years.
  At 18 century, John Locke clarified and placed first bricks to build
  the democracy theory.  As a result, Human escaped the dark nights of
  the Middle Age and entered the Modern Age.
  Since there were so many people died for modern world, democracy is
  something that not simple like you think.  (Even communist countries
  must borrow the word democracy for their title, propaganda....)
  Please read more about democracy, John Locke ......
  (When I was in Vietnam, I met so many people who said they mastered
   marxist-leninist theories, but they had never read completely 1 book
   of 60 thick books  ("Ca'c Ma'c Toa`n Ta^.p","Le^ Nin Toa`n Ta^.p"...)
   They just repeated what they heard like the parrots)
 
>>Third world country cannot afford a democracy of Western style.  They
>>need to lift their intellectual ability higher to equal or better than
>>that of the most advanced Western society before a democracy becomes
>>practical.
  All dictatorial regimes know when that goal is reached, their days
  will be the end.  So, they try to make it as slow as they can.
  (Eliminating like Polpot did is the best way)
 
>>Japan did not advance because of Democracy! she advanced because of
>>nationalism, humility and hatred for the Western arrogance. Germany
>>did not advance by democracy. She advances by the will to suceed and
>>the strength of the German hearts and minds.
  Without the help of American after WW2; Europe, Germany, Japan, Korea
  (the interesting thing is those countries are somehow related to
   American in a short period) still are developing countries now.
   And the first condition to receive aids from American is the
   improvement of democracy.
  The important of American help is specified clearly in their
  native language text-books.  (Marshall's plan)  (You can verify it!)
  The first day that Berlin Wall collapsed, Germany's chancellor had
  called Bush and thanked America for the continuing of help and support
  from the first day after WW2.  He said these things leading to the
  collapse of the East Germany.
 
>>Vietname may suffer humility now. However, she will rise! She will
>>learn the best of the skill that Western cultures can offer. She will
>>maintain her poetic culture. She cannot afford the rotten kind of
>>democracy of the West. She may have her own form of democracy that
>>will goes beyond the taste for flesh and bones of the Western facists.
>>She will not be the play ground of the West similar to what Thailand,
>>Philippines, South America, etc ... have always been. The regime
>>in Vietnam may not be the most desirable on Earth now. However they
>>have the interest of the motherland at heart.          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  It is really a joke.  Who had keep silence about the China's occupation
  of Hoang Sa in 1974?  Who had sign the decree to give up Hoang Sa and
  Truong Sa to China during Vietnam War so they can receive arms, foods,
  supports?   Without the people and arms forces'pressures now, absolutely
  Hanoi will give up Truong Sa to China again.
 
>>The old generations are dying out rapidly.  The younger generation will
>>be better.  Let's hope that they will not learn all the illnesses of
>>Western cultures (the North American culture in particular).
>>
>>Van Dao MAI
>>Wollongong University
 
  Paroles, Paroles, Paroles,        oh bonbon, chocolat, cherry, beurre, ...
 (Words, words, words, ......)
  We had full ears of words for last 16 years.
  Do not speak, do not hope, DO IT.
  GET THE HOW-TO-DO-IT BOOKS NOW!
  (Remember to do it after finish the book, do not read only)
 
 
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For long time, this is the first time I have met again a
propaganda person like you.
Even all vietnamese at former east Germany and former Soviet Union
whose I had met at Munich, they shared with me the sadness for country,
and shared with me the desire of democracy for Vietnam.  You are at odd.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese