HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Origin of Hapkido
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:02:06 -0500

TAC> I have a 750-page reference on Hapkido...which only go so far
TAC> as to state that Choi was taught by Takeda and "lost his baggage
TAC> on the trip back to Korea; in these bags were money, and
certicates
TAC> proving his training under Takeda" (how convenient).
     The origins of all Korean martial arts are dubious at best: the
other Eastern disciplines may be as well-documented as the pedigree of
a Thoroughbred, for all I know. However, the validity of a martial art
is measured by its practitioners, not its predecessors; i.e., how good
he
do what he do, not how good they say they did what they did...<big g>
      I have the utmost respect for the accomplishments of my masters
and
grandmasters although historical veracity is not their long suit. If 
legitimacy is determined pragmatically, not historically, then Hapkido
will be around for a while.
      Train wisely,
      Tom Stovall
      2nd dan Hapkido
      2nd dan TKD
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 12 Dec 92 07:27:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec10.231822.2957@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
>>What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
>
>Any entry that would close the distance and open a line to the
>face, and then take the eyes.  No further danger to society, no
>murder on your conscience (or record), he won't be picking you
>out of a lineup, probably no need to even break a sweat...

I learned a lesson about this approach recently: if you are going
to attack the eyes in expectation of stopping somebody, then be
sure to take them both and take them *out*. I say this from the
perspective of having suffered corneal injuries in both eyes.
The more recent one was, in the words of my doctor, a "horrible
injury to the eye." There was basically a sizable chunk of
cornea torn out and discarded. It happened during sparring, and it
didn't stop me.

Therefore: if you attack the eyes attack them both and make sure 
the other person cannot see afterward.

Oh, and, by the way, no sympathy needed. My eyes are both fine.
The "horrible injury" was all better within five days. The
doctore mumbled something about corneal tissue healing fast.
Incidentally, they have the coolest way of examining corneal
injuries, involving this flourescent dye that runs off the
epidermis but soaks into subcutaneous layers. I got a pretty
good look at the injury in the mirror, glowing in the dark.
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sparring with women (again) (was Re: Model Mugging Again.)
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:18:37 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

In article <1g4diiINN44i@male.EBay.Sun.COM> aiki@katana1.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>Now, answer the question truthfully. If you are a man, do you hold back while
>sparring with  women, or do you let her have it with both barrels ? Now, some
----------

I teach people to assume that everyone - man, woman, or child - is to be
considered the most bad ass fighter they have ever met.  They should be
treated with respect and given an appropriate level of response whenever
sparring, performing techniques, etc.   The only accomidations to be made
for anyone is based on their skill level and current injuries.  There is
no other criteria, IMO, for giving any less.  Any time I see someone giving
less I immediately tell them to start showing their opponent the respect
they deserve.  If the person is of lesser skill, I point out that this is
a perfect opportunity to work on their mental focus since they must be 
more in control and assume that the opponent may not see that attack they
are throwing, that they can work on their accuracy and timing since the
sparring will probably be at a slower pace, that they can work on seeing
openings and setting a person up since a slower pace allows more time to
see things, etc.  BTW, a woman has the same vulnerabilities as a man when
it comes to the groin area in addition to having an additional painful
area in the chest.  Do I spare them?  No, I treat these as similar targets
as I do for a man.  As for working with children, I treat the opportunity
to work on techniques involving height differences - the greater variety
in body types to work with, the greater chance of surviving an encounter
on the street.  You only show disrepect and lessen yourself by not giving
every opponent 101% of your abilities and your complete attention and
your respect.
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More ki/qi/chi & science
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:49:15 GMT
Followup-To: rec.humor
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <1992Dec15.110056.7182@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
}14-Dec-92 geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) Re: ki and science
}>... Give somebody an effect that
}>will make a different number come up on their detection and analysis
}>equipment and you'll have people flocking to your door. 
}
}Well, perhaps you are correct, however, I would guess that even if you were to
}identify a measurable, you'd still be laughed at and ridiculed.  It wouldn't
}make any difference.  Most original thinkers are laughed at, but especially by
}the orthodoxy, which in this example happens to be community of physics
}scholars. 
}
}>It's not ridicule as much
}>as it is the realization that this type of study isn't what they spent
}>10 years of college and post-grad work for.
}
}Considering some of the crap that does get done in graduate study, I don't
}think the study of some aspect of chi is really to far afield at all.

They laughed at the Wright brothers!

Of course, they also laughed at Bozo the clown...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: re:Need info about japan
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:06:21 GMT

=I need info on who I can learn MA in Japan?  If really need this info no later
=then December 19.  I would like to thank you  in advance.
=
=-- 
=**************************************************************************
=**    " Life, Librerty, and the slight delay persuit of happiness."     **
=**                                             Matthew Wallace, 1988.   **
=**************************************************************************

In reference to this I would call one of the JKA style instructors below,
 they could give you the proper phone nbrs.

Master S. Sugiyama, JKA Chicago  (312) 472-2244

or

Master T. Okuzaki  International Shotokan Karate Federation
                   222 South 55th St, Philadelphia, PA 19104
                  (215) 222-9382

or

Master H. Nishiyama...American Amateur Karate Federation
                            1930 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 1208
                            Los Angeles, CA 90057
                           (213) 483-8261

I'm sure they or the secretary would be able to help direct you
towards JKA Headquarters (Japan Karate Association).


Or if you like Judo ask for a phone book, and call the 
Kodokan in Tokyo.  It is well known by everyone.


If you are looking for Aikido, or Kendo I'm sure that others would
be able to give you the proper phone nbrs to call.

Good Health & Good Training.


B. Webb, Dallas, Tx.
From: sprute@dsf58a.desy.de (Lars Sprute)
Subject: Belt test and injury
Organization: DESY, Hamburg, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:51:04 GMT

I'm practising Wado-Ryo style Karate for two years and I was going to make
my green belt test end of January of '93. Four weeks ago I broke a finger,
but I was able to continue practising. Last friday, broken finger is ok
meanwhile, I broke my thumb. It will take at least another four weeks,
until the thumb will be ok, this will be only two weeks before the test.

Because I can't train with the broken thumb I don't know if I should skip
the test and do it later, or if I should try it, less trained...

I think it's worth a try, in case I should fail the test it's just the same
as skipping it, right ? I know about the discussions about ranks,
but I would like to reach the next group, so I'd like to learn a lot from the
experienced students there and all of my friends are going to make the test
and I would like to train with them together  in the future.

What do you think, what does your experience in MA says ? Do you think
it's just a funny coincidence to get injured twice before the belt test,
or do you think I should skip it to become more experienced ?

Any kind of answer welcome,

Lars

--

/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Lars Sprute  -R-                            Net:                          |
| DESY (Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron)                                   |
| Notkestr. 85                                sprute@desy.de                |
| D - Hamburg 52                              SPRUTE@DESYVAX.BITNET         |
| Germany                                     13313::SPRUTE.DECNET          |
| Tel. +49 40 8998 3219                                                     |
| FAX. +49 40 8998 3282                                                     |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:48:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>>They are?  As defined in the CA Penal Code?  Which section??? 
>
>As defined by the San Jose cops who pulled us over and when they saw the
>4-cell flashlight hanging off the door that it was a weapon and since it was
>reach of the driver, they would assume any movement toward it would be 
>construed as reaching for a weapon.

Ok. I see.  Sounds more like movement toward anything that _might_ be used as
a weapon is the key instead of just a flashlight of 4-cells or greater.

BTW, the new "Bashers" from Cold Steel are very nice.  A 7-cell (AA) flashlight
made out of steel tubing that is a full 1/4" think.  I like it better than any
of the D or C cell MagLites.  They are 17" long, relatively light weight, and 
VERY sturdy.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: ki and science
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:26:05 GMT

bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Mmmn... what would a device that measures ki be called?
>
>A Kiometer,
>A Kido,
>A Kimeter,
>A Kimomitor
>A Kimoscope....  ?????

Uke.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura)
Subject: Re: Chi Kung for use Martially
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:46:20 GMT

I'm also EXTREMELY (underline that) interested in this topic, and would be eternally greatful if people could send me information too (sorry for the trouble...)
Thanx so much in advance.
						Yusuke
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Subject: tai chi
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:00:52 EST

Kenneth, there are several traditional styles; there may or may not be
standard short forms.  From them one can take single-form exercises,
direct applications with only slight differences from form, or app's
which combine elements from various single forms (positions/moves taken
from the long form or whatever).  There are also weapons forms, the
favourite where I study being sabre.  Some say the form is sufficient;
others say form plus push hands.  We spend quite a bit of time on
applications, but without neglecting fundamentals - e.g., a punch won't
have much speed or impact without relaxation, allignment, coordination.

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Need info about japan
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:41:10 GMT

In article <Bz9Fp3.60C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> wallace@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ranger) writes:
>I need info on who I can learn MA in Japan?  
					   ^

	Well, if YOU aren't sure, then how the hell are we supposed to be?

	-X
From: shawmd@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael D Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Moving to Raleigh, North Carolina
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:36:39 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Well I finally got a job, so its off to Raleigh, North Carolina I go.  Anyway
anyone have recommendations for instructors who teach either Wing Chun, Aikido,
Tai Chi, or Kendo in the Raleigh-Carey-Durham area.  Any info would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike Shaw
shawmd@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
mikes86@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: eclipse@world.std.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Re: Looking for Jujitsu school
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:33:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.155923.24994@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <BzB61B.EEx@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com writes:
>>After 12 years of TKD I'm changing styles.  From what I have
>>heard about it Jujitsu sounds like it may be the style I am
>>looking for.  Does anyone out there know of a school in the
>>Nashua NH to Milford NH area?  How about the Lowell MA area?
>>As always, any information will win my undying gratitude.
>	How about Framingham?  If acceptable, you could try Tony Anessi
>	at 21 Blandin av.  Tony is quite accomplished, and his style is
>	very much to the soft side of things.  His dojo is real nice
>	nad clean and BIG (2000 sq ft mat!).
>	Sorry, but I do not have his # handy right off, but if you want it,
>	drop me a line and I'll dig it up.
		(508) 879-7622, name of the dojo is Bushido-Kai Martial Arts.
I would like to echo Andy's opinion on the quality of the dojo.  I've visited
the site and it is very well maintained with a lot of mat space.

>
>	Hope this helps.  Happy holidays!
>
>	-Andy V.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin -- eclipse@world.std.com -- These opinions are mine.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
From: d91dbl@meryl.csd.uu.se (Daniel Blomqvist)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Bujinkan @Indiana ?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:47:30 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se

I will probably study at Purdue University in the academic year 93/94 and would
therefore be grateful for any information about Ninjutsu Dojos near by.

	Daniel
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Car jacking
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:49:45 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <LAU.92Dec17151904@sunset.ai.sri.com> lau@sunset.ai.sri.com (Stephen Lau) writes:
>I would have gotten out of the car as quick as I could. 

	Actually, staying in the car is what you want to do.  As long as
you're inside you're not only relatively safe from attack, but control
one of the most powerful weapons ever invented.  If someone tries to get
in the driver's door all you have to do is open the door and hit him
with it.  Floor the accelerator while you do this for maximum effect. 

	Once the car's pointed in a safe direction you can easily escape.
(Yeah, ok, they might all be carrying rocket launchers or driving a Hemi 
Charger...  Insert your own disclaimers.)
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is the MA for me, etc... [AGAIN]
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:56:06 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1g6dieINNoen@agate.berkeley.edu> actize@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu writes:
>Which is the MA for me ? I am male, 40 years old, 5'10", 150 lbs., and do 
>weightlifting and jogging regularly.  I am interested mainly in SELF 
>DEFENSE.  
>SELF DEFENSE is defending myself against one unarmed assailant.  The 
>assailant 
>will attack in each of these 3 methods, one third of the time:
>
>1.	fist strikes (boxing)
>2.	pushing, tripping, choke hold, etc. (wrasslin)
>3.	a combination of 1. & 2.
>
>Given what's available here and what I can fit into my work schedule, I have 
>a choice of:
>
>1.	KARATE
>2.	JUDO
>3.	TAE KWON DO
>
>Which is the best MA for me ? Why ?

I am a kung fu instructor. In my opinion the best choice given you
stated constraints is Judo. 

The reasons are:
1. unskilled attacks will nearly always end up in grappling. Judo is
   the art listed that is most concerned with grappling.
2. Assaults always involve legal consequences. You are in a better
   legal position if you have grappled with someone and pinned
   him than if you hit him and broke bones. You can always hit
   him real hard against the ground if you need to, or twist
   something real hard so it breaks.
3. In the case of a skilled attacker, a trained striker without
   grappling experience tends to be at a disadvantage against
   a trained grappler without striking experience.

The ideal thing would be to take up a balanced art, like a
comprehensive kung fu system, or combination of arts, like
karate with judo or jujutsu, but if you have to pick only
one of the above, I would say pick Judo.

--me

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Subject: Re: science and ki
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:23:02 GMT
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, Harris Semicondutor

In article <1992Dec14.085909.1655@sei.cmu.edu>, psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
|> 
|> Actually my math preparation is too shitty to study physics properly.  Now
|> physiology I have studied, but so what.  From having a lifetime of observing
|> the narrowmindedness of most scientific researchers, I don't really feel so
|> lacking that I don't have their knowledge.  Typically if you mention the
|> concept of chi in scientific circles of any kind, you will simply raise
|> eyebrows and discredit yourself--go ahead and try it yourself.  And again, you
|> are right--it isn't really the disciplines themselves that are the cause
|> per se, but the fact is that there are a whole bunch of experiences recorded
|> anecdotally in eastern philosophy and medicine which the west (broadly
|> speaking and inclusive of the scientific "machine" if you will) has
|> categorically denied could be true.  

Again it seems your love of all things Chinese has led you to badly overstate
things, Peter.  Western science is a tool for deciding whether or not 
something is real, and a "whole bunch" of western philosphy and "medicine"
has gotten thrown into the dumpster when their ideas and claims could not
be backed up, as well.  Demanding properly defined and verifiable experiments
and evidence is not "narrow-mindedness"; it's just plain smart. 

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: The FAQ: a modest (but serious) proposal
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:52:32 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Dec11.120837.12506@walter.cray.com>, radner@cray.com
(Lauren Radner) writes:
|> I have a suggestion for gathering Frequently Asked Questions.
|> Once an editor is selected, why don't we mail (bombard) the
|> (poor) person with the questions we *recall* being asked most 
|> frequently. Some questions seem to have a cycle that is 'frequent'
|> but may not be 'monthly', so that perusing two or three months of
|> copious posting history might not turn them all up... Then Mary,
|> unh, I mean the editor, can post a list of them to the net for
|> comment/addition/deletion. How does that sound?

It sounds great, but it seems to me that the the original
(unofficial) FAQ would make an awfully good starting point.
Does anyone have a copy of this mythical beast?

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com

P.S.  If you do have access to the FAQ, could you send me a copy?
      Thanks.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: phill@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Phill Solomon)
Subject: Karate-Do International Info wanted
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1992 22:40:38 GMT

Hi, I am new to martial arts etc and was wondering, can any one
give me information on the history, membership, style infact any
information about the Karate-Do International and the style studied
in their dojos.

Thanks

Phill Solomon.

phill@bohra.cpg.oz.au
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Extending Ki
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:26:04 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) / 10:41 am  Dec  2, 1992 /


>I have been taught to visualize energy flowing through my extended
>limb (usually the arms ) like water flowing through a fire hose.
>I can't seem to keep this image in my mind on a consistent basis,
>usually losing my concentration. Any comments or advice?
----------

One of the biggest problems people have with flowing is they think too
much about it.  One cannot conciously execute techniques; they must flow
from the subconcious to the body - the concious mind just slows things 
up and gets in the way.  The same thing applies to energy flow.  All 
you need to do is think about it once and then go.  Over time, the 
subconcious will be able to increase the amount of time you are flowing
while still executing what you want.  It does take time and practice.
I have seen people when they finally "flow" and at first it is only for
a few seconds or so.  Over time, the duration has increased and they
begin to recognize when it happens.  Those who have been at it for 
years seem to never be out of it when performing any techniques.  So,
perform your visualization or whatever thought pattern to get you
"flowing" and then execute your techniques.  Repeat the process again
and again until the need to conciously start it is no longer necessary.
BTW, one could program the subconcious to simply execute a series of
whatever you like.  A simple example is what most of the stress reduction
people teach and that is working with muscle groups to relax.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:21:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM's message of 10 Dec 92 17:25:25 GMT


In article <1g7ui6INNi5v@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid) writes:

[snip]

   Sure, one can fight with the air cut off because the lungs still have 
   air, etc. But there are lots of nerves near the trachea which are also
   unpleasantly effected. Constriciton to these prohibits defensive moves.

Hmmm...I wonder if this is the "shock" that my instructor spoke of.  I'll
have to ask him.

He did specifically say that the issue was not one of suffocation, which
takes longer.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH