HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: One Oh
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:06:52 GMT


That lovely song:
    Six for the Six proud Servants

  The six required great offices for a baronial or higher group:
  Seneschal, Herald, Chronicler, Marshal, A/S Officer & Reeve.

      ---
Huh? According to Corpora:
  
  Local Branches: 3 officers: Seneschal, Herald, and either a Marshal
     or a Minister of Arts and Sciences. (V.A.4.b)

  Baronies and Provinces: A set of officers acceptable to the Crown.
    (V.A.3.b)

  Principalities: A full staff of Great Officers (V.B.2.b)

  Kingdoms: A full staff of Great Officers (V.B.1.b)

Great Officers are:(VI.C.2 a-h)
  Seneshal, Herald, Earl Marshal, Minister of Arts, Minister of
  Sciences, Exchequer, Chronicler, Chirurgeon. (VI.C.1.b.2 let's
  you combine Arts and Sciences).

In the East, the following officers are required for Baronies:
   Seneschal, Herald, Exchequer, Knight Marshal, Minister of Lists,
   Minister of Arts and/or Sciences, Chronicler, Chatelaine (VI.D 1-8)

The Great Officers of the East include supervisors for the positions of
  Seneshal, Herald, Earl Marshal, Minister of Arts, Minister of
  Sciences, Exchequer, Chronicler, Chirurgeon. Minister of Lists,
  and Chatelaine.  (EK Law V.A.1 a-i)

So, where didja get 6?  Or did we just mess up the song? I count 7 or 8
for Kingdoms and Principalities, some oddball number for Baronies.  In
the East, it's actually 10 for the Kingdom and Principalities, and
8 for Baronies.  Your kingdom may vary...

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: STEWARTL%WOO1.LEA1@leav-emh.army.MIL (LOU STEWART)
Subject: Slay the Sea Serpent!
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:40:48 GMT


We at Callanish Nuadh beg the assistance of all gentles whoare handy
with a bow.  A fearsome sea serpent is in the waters near our shores;
we fear it will develop an appetite forour lords and ladies.  Come and
help us slay the sea serpent, and also re-create the Battle of Sluys, in
which hundreds of English archers defeated thousands of French knights.
This event is to take place 31 October, at Rolla MO.  There will be
activities for smalls, a Bardic Competition with a nautical theme, and
an Arts and Sciences Competition on a nautical theme in any medium.
Prizes will be awarded for these competitions and for the archery.
There will be a feast of six removes; the archer striking the heart
of the wicked serpent shall have it served at feast.  There will be
merchants and an inn during the day.  Post-revel will feature a
masked ball with prizes for best costumes.  Limited crash space can be
provided Friday night in members' homes; plentiful crash space will be
available on site Saturday night.  For more information, call the
Autocrat Caitlin nic Pharlain/Anna Marie Kulback at (314) 329-6485.
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pickup Trucks (was Re: regalia trailer)
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:47:16 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Oct13.155747.12286@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <1558@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>>Vashti of the Flaming Tresses writes:
>>> Ansteorran monarchs often have pickup trucks, or friends in their 
>>> entourage with pickup trucks, 
>>
>>I've noticed that here in the East.  At a demo at a school, I made the comment 
>>that you could tell which vehicles in the parking lot belonged to fighters, 
>>all the pickups and vans.  Lord Madog, who was in Atlantia while in the Army, 
>>said that in Atlantia, you could skip the phrase 'and vans'.  If you don't 
>>have a pickup, you ain't a _real_ fighter.  How is it in the other 10 kingdoms?
>
>Around here it seems to vary with how seriously one camps comforatbly
>and period.  Vans and large pickups are used by folks in larger
>encampments--sometimes, plus trailers.
>
>I use a VW Vanagon with the middle seat taken out and then complain
>about a lack of interior space...
	
	Yup, my little Escort wagon got totaled this weekend, I'm taking
it as an excuse to buy something my pavillion will fit in :)
					-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Before you can spin the wool, you need to comb it.
                   | 	Use the combs with the 5 rows of 6" razor sharp spikes.
ilaine@panix.com   |    Don't drink and comb - trust me on this.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: badger@wixer.cactus.org (Badger)
Subject: Re: Kingdom Heraldry Submission Rates (updated to 6 October 92)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 01:23:45 GMT

	Ansteorra charges $8 per action, with no difference between members
and non-members.

          

-- 
| Kenneth W. Scott        | Lord Gunter von Wissenberg  | Azure, a badger's   |
| Badger                  | Collegium Turris Animarum   | head erased Or      | 
| (Meles meles)           | In the Barony of Bryn Gwlad | masked sable, within|
| badger@wixer.cactus.org | In the Kingdom of Ansteorra | an orle Or. (I hope)|
From: jim@woodowl.UUCP (jim klessig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Reeves (Was Re:One Oh)
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:01:09 GMT
Organization: Woodowl, Livermore CA

bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writes:

> 
> In a previous article, Dorothea asked:
> 
> >Waitaminnit.  Reeve?  What's a Reeve?  How do you say "Reeve" in
> >Western?
> 
> Reeve = Chancellor of the Exchequery = Exchequer = Treasurer = whatever
> you call the person that handles the cash and cooks, er, balances the
> account ledgers.
> 
> Mikjal Annarbjorn
> -- 
> Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
> Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
> Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
>       mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu

I was under the impression that (in period) the reeve had teh functions 
we would accociate with a constable or sherrif. And that  "shire reeve" 
is the original form of "sherrif" (say Shire Reeve three times fast)
 
Chandra


--
jim@woodowl.UUCP  (jim klessig)
Woodowl BBS, Livermore, CA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: One Oh
Organization: Brown University Math Department
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:44:41 GMT

Richard writes:
|> 
|> Mea culpa! Mea culpa! (and me a lapsed Presbyterian ;)
|> I appear to have completely screwed this one up. Tibor is, naturally,
|> correct; I have searched in the West and Lochac laws for a reference,
|> but they don't mention baronial officer's lists, so even though I'm
|> sure I have seen what I said written down, it must be just local
|> policy or custom.  [...]
|> 
|> Any suggestions for an alternative verse six? 


Oh, I don't know --- this sort of scramble sounds period for folk songs to me.
 I vote we leave it.

			---Simon
From: banshee@cats.ucsc.edu (Wailer at the Gates of Dawn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: REQUEST: clothing patterns
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:17:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


	Any pointers on pattern sources?
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:23:38 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  Bertram wrote:

> ...as far as I can tell we're paying for a policy that protects the
> corporation, not its members (correct me if I'm wrong, folks).  No
> insurance policy is going to prevent a competent attorney from suing
> possibly negligent parties as individuals as well as the organization
> they represent. 

I've made some effort to understand clearly what our insurance does and
doesn't do.  I'm not in the business and I'm not a lawyer, but this is what
I have learned: The SCA's insurance is intended to cover liability incurred
by the corporation and by advisory (dues-paying) members of the SCA, Inc.
arising from their actions in helping to run SCA activities.  It also
covers damage to the site, as long as the site is not owned by an SCA
member, and injury to spectators who are not SCA participants.  If the SCA
were sued over the actions of some autocrat or chirurgeon or whatever, then
the individual undoubtedly would also be named in the suit, but the
insurance should cover his liability as well as the corporation's.

In an earlier note, he wrote:

> As things stand today, there are MANY 'occasions,' like fighting
> practices, dance practices (dangerous falls, anyone?) and the like that
> are NOT listed in the Kingdom newsletter and thereby official.  If
> something goes wrong at such a gathering, as I understand how we're
> covered, we're NOT protected.  (If this isn't right, please correct me.)

It isn't right.  The insurance applies at all SCA events, where an event is
any activity sponsored by a branch of the SCA and publicized at least to
the membership of that branch (see Corpora II.A).  The requirement that all
events be published in a kingdom newsletter was dropped years ago for
exactly the reasons you offer.

Bertram also wrote tongue-in-cheek:

> If, by California law only the people on the Board of Directors are
> *real* members of the Corporation, and if *only* members will be 
> allowed to autocrat events ... obviously *ONLY* Board members can be
> autocrats. 

In case anyone misunderstands: There are two definitions of member.  In
terms of California law, members of a corporation are people who have the
right to vote on corporate resolutions.  The only members of the SCA, Inc.
are directors.  Dues-paying members are "advisory members", and it is
advisory membership that is required for office-holding, etc.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Fylfots and such
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:17:43 GMT

In article <BvqC9q.1ss@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Path: utkux1.utk.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!utcsri!utgpu!aryk
>From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
>Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
>Subject: Re: Fylfots and such
>Message-ID: <BvqC9q.1ss@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
>Date: 7 Oct 92 02:29:50 GMT
>References: <Bvq5vv.9A5@access.digex.com>
>Distribution: usa
>Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
>Lines: 18
>On the subject of the death's-head badge used by the Killer Elite (so many
>years agone), I would make one point.
>
>I am the sort of fellow who would tell somebody to lose the thing with the
>swastika on it, so don't mistake me for a loony here.  But the skull and
>bones insignia used by the Totenkopf and other divisions of the SS was used
>by, various other units, including Prussian light cavalry and the English
>17th Lancers, who still use the badge, which is the death's head, with a 
>scroll bearing the words "OR GLORY" -- Death or Glory that is.
>
>So the skull and bones is a commonly used piece of military insignia still
>in use by non-fascist armies, and does not merit the same consideration as
>the swastika.
>
>I do not think for a moment that the old Killer Elite had the 17th Lancers
>cap badge in mind.
>
>Aryk

Yep.  Most Carriers in the US navy have a squadron whose badge is a varient 
on Sable, a human skill argent, regardant

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Subject: Re: On Barons and Membership
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 23:44:04 GMT


Badger writes:
>         All this talk of term limits for Barons, voting on this or that,
> members wanting more say in the decisions of the BoD, and generally adding
> greatly to the bureaucracy of the Society disturbes me greatly. The idea of
> doing anything not directly related to the Society as a legal entity in the
> mundane world on the basis of a majority vote makes me slightly ill.

I regret that this talk makes you slightly ill, but the alternative makes me
more than slightly ill. It burns like acid on my dreams.

My problem is that I am living in a group whose leadership espouses the
view that 'this is not a democratic society' and thus believes that it can
ignore and overrule the wishes of the populace whenever it so decides. This
leadership recently cancelled an event that it did not approve of despite
a 12 to 2 vote in favor of the holding the event by the council of officers.
This leadership feels threatened by a vocal group of assorted officers and
general members. This leadership is using a closed process to fill vacant
officer slots. This leadership is successful minimising the strength of its
opposition to its superiors and discrediting the few individuals are
submitting written complaints.

There needs to be a block against such abuses. The simplest block is a
democratic process. A simple vote of confidence would help. Allowing the
populace to vote on every contested officer slot would help. Putting every
contested decision to a popular vote is not difficult show dissenters where
the support is and is not. This can be done quickly and casually. I believe
that this is how I ran the Barony of Carillion while I served as its
seneschal.

In Aquaterra, years of bottled up resentment against a series of dictatorships
are coming close to explosion point. An explosion will not benefit anyone
within the group, will damage the kingdom but is likely to be the cause
of much rejoicing in a neighbouring group.

Anyway, I am firmly of the opinion that informal 'voting' proceedures were
not unusual among groups of peers in period. The definition of a member of the
society as a person of noble birth makes us all peers. Thus I see no reason
why it should be inappropriate for votes to held at branch meetings.

The issue of the selection of BoD members is, I feel, a red herring. If the BoD
considers 300 and some odd letters in response to a survey to be significant,
I do not doubt that a handful of letters on some other topic would be treated
as equally significant. Notice. I expect our leadership to be just and
honorable. I only get upset when they prove to be otherwise.

	Fiacha
	Aquaterra
From: dmb@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Atlantians: Order of Precedence question
Date: 8 Oct 1992 22:10:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


Greetings unto all Rialtians, and especially those in Atlantia,
from Thomas Brownwell in Calafia, Caid.

I was asked to find out the address of the holder of the
Order of Precedence in Atlantia for a gentle Lady here
who received her AoA in Atlantia but fears that circumstances
mangled any record of the event.  Would someone please relay
to me an address and/or phone number?

Thank you for your patience.
Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.COM
Subject: SCAidians who FRP games (part II)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:42:00 GMT

I remembered (too late) the other thing I was going to say in my recent message
about the negative stereo-typing of FRP (D&D, etc.) gamers in Rialto Messages.
The situation is very similar to the Science Fiction Fan stuff that was going
on a while back.  Like the FRP gamers, SF Fans make up a large (and usually
silent) fraction of the SCA.  They also have negative things said about them
(take gamer stereo type, add a dose of bad politics).  SF Fandom seems to be
much better treated since a SF Fan "spoke up" here.
     Not to force anybody out of the "FRP game" closet, but I first met Hal
Ravin and Hillary of Serendip at a game con; cirica AS XII.  Hal was running
the registration counter, and Hillary was "running" (at least being the primary
"spokesman") the SCA demo.  Gaming convention demos are still very popular (at
here in the West), where a recent labor day con had over 40 members signed up
in advance.
    I understand the need to seperate FRP gaming and the SCA in the mind of
the public (and can actually do a better job of this than most chattelanes).
But that is no excuse for maintaining the negative stereo-type.

Sean MacKay (aka. MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.com)  Caer Darth; Darkwood; Mists; West
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:33:23 GMT

Responding to Bertram's other posting.

Within the United States, I think we need a non-profit corporation
for two distinct reasons:

 1. A tax-free corporate checking account.

 2. Indemnity Insurance for site rental.

The reason we need the first, is that monies cycled through private
checking accounts are considered income to the people who deposit
the checks.  The IRS would want it's share, and it would be a
burden on someone to have to pay the tax.  And the tax rate would
vary depending, and and and.  A tax-free non-profit corporation is
as easy to create as a standard corporation, and provides benefits.

The indemnity insurance allows us to rent sites whose owners require
some evidence of assets or equity in case of law suit, before they
will rent their sites to us.  While this insurance can be gotten
without a corporation, it would be hideously expensive.

Internationally, I have no idea.

The problems start when you create the corporation.  It must have
a Board of Directors, liability insurance to cover the actions of
the Board, an office or permanent address.  Regular meetings must
be held of the Board, and financial records are required by the IRS.

Those are the two things that, in the US, require a corporation.
There are endless advantages and disadvantages that a central authority
can provide.

Interesting perspective on the mailing list, Bertram, I hadn't thought
of that.  These days, however, my 2000 dollar PC can cover the
mailing list, and a local print shop can convert my output files to
printed labels.

	Tibor (Who wrote as much in a letter to the Board in June).
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: imeslsl@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCAidians who FRP games (part II)
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:57:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: Msu.00962209.636F7FA0
Reply-To: imeslsl@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

In article <1550@niktow.canisius.edu>, salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>Hal Ravn writes:
>> the SCA has a lot to teach gamers and (especially)
>> game designers about how medievaloid worlds have to work if they're to
>> make sense and how muscle-powered weapons work in practice.
>
>Agreed! From the GURPS [Generical Universal Role Playing System] Handbook: p114
>"Shields in Close Combat -- In close combat, a shield becomes a potentially
>deadly nuisance.  It still provides its passive defense.  However, it hampers
>you while you wear it.  Any attack you make in close combat has a penalty
>equal to the passive defence of your shield!  ...  It takes one turn, with
>a successful DX [dexterity] roll, to get rid of your shield during a close
>combat."
>
>The book defines 'one turn' as 'one second in real time'  In the first place,
>I don't see how you could get rid of a shield in one second let alone under
>combat conditions unless the shield is ONLY hand held and not attached to
>your arm.

Well, I've seen a lot of fighters in our area just flick their shields off
of their arms.  It happened several times as arms were taken in the most
recent coronet(sp?) list.  I would say it has to do with individual style...
I don't leave my shield loose enough, but several local knights do, and it
doesn't seem to hinder their shield-use any... {-:
From: Riki.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Stein)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Linen and wool
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 11:07:02 -0500

Leif Euren said, quoting someone whose name I've lost...

 >'Linens' made from linen are also much less scratchy than 'linens'
 >made from wool.

and replied,

 LE> Although this is a general enough rule, it's not always true.  the
 LE> first time used, linen clothes may be very 'hard' and 'scratchy', but
 LE> this will wear away after a few washings. On the other hand, its
 LE> possible to make a cloth from "yanked" lambs wool, i.e. wool that
 LE> hasn't been cut in neither end.  It's rumored to be incredibly soft,
 LE> fit to use as underwear. I've just heard of this thing, and perhaps
 LE> it's not available any more, but its mentioned in period sources.

I don't know anything about "yanked" lambswool, but I do know of a modern
invention called Superwash wool. It's wool that has been treated somehow
to easily withstand machine washing and drying. I have some long underwear
made from this stuff, and it is not only comfortable, but truly *cuddly*
next to the skin. Now, this underwear is knitted rather than woven, but
if one could get hold of some Superwash yarn the possibilities would be
intriguing!

Ariane Baccadoro



... Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Carrying a sword
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:24:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: monmouth.7681
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <1992Oct15.181202.137473@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>Greetings from Arval!  Michael Carson asked:
>
>> 	Would the name "Lord Plume de me Tante" be allowed?  I thought there
>> was a special signifigance to the title "Lord" in the SCA? 
>
>There is; it indicates that the gentle has an Award of Arms.  In general,
>one should not adopt a title which could imply noble rank or lordship of
>land. 

	Thought so.  I can see how people who have earned the title could
be somewhat annoyed at people assuming it. :)
>
>This raises an interesting question: Is there any evidence of medieval
>courtiers (a) carrying weapons at banquets & in court  

	I've seen pictures of sword scabbards that also held knives and
forks or spoons, so this would seems to support their being worn to dinner.

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|