HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:19:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <1992Apr14.170053.2049@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>
>    Still doesn't change the fact that the manga posters chose not to
>post to rec.arts.comics for whatever reason (personally I think it had
>more to do with traffic volume than anything else), and not because the
>rec.arts.comics readership told them to go somewhere else.
>
The reason that I feel the manga posters chose a newsgroup other than
r.a.comics is that they felt that their posts would not elicit many, if
any, responses.  Generally speaking, I think the response was better in
r.a.anime.  So I think the posters just went to where they thought they'd get 
the quickest and easiest results. 

Also, the threads from r.a.anime tend to prance around subject matter which
is also manga related, and therefore would breed more manga related responses.
Not many r.a.comics threads seem to have the same flavor as anime/manga
threads, hence not many would lead to manga discussions.

just my 2 cents.


--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems                               
Mountain View, CA                            "..ck me gently with a chainsaw" 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 14:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.021331.3355@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs) writes:
>>	comp.graphics.imageproc or something similar.  It should 
>>definitately be someplace in the comp.graphics tree.
>
>I have to disagree, Andy.  My first suggestion would be sci.image-process
>or sci.image-proc, or even sci.image.processing.  (sci.image-processing
>would exceed the limit on some systems, but would otherwise be my first
>choice.)  I would reluctantly support comp.image-proc, if pressed.

I don't think image processing fits well under the comp.graphics tree,
either.  For example, many areas of image processing are really more
closely related to two-dimensional digital signal processing, which
doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computer graphics.

I don't have any problems with keeping it in the comp.* hierarchy,
though.  IMHO, many, IP issues are computer-related, and I suspect
that most of the traffic will be related to implementation issues (for
example: "Does anyone know where I can get a 2-D FFT routine?", "Does
anyone know how to..." etc.)

>Hmmm, now that I think of it, how about two groups?  sci.imaging
 [ stuff deleted ]

I'd have no problems with this, but is there enough interest to
justify it?

In any event, the field is so broad that it really doesn't fit neatly
in one hierarchy.  I can, off the top of my head, think of topics that
might have previously been posted in comp.ai.vision, comp.compression
(jpeg, wavelets, etc.), comp.dsp, comp.graphics, comp.multimedia,
sci.astro and more.  I'd just be happy to have a group that would
collect these all in one place.

>>	I would be in support of an UNMODERATED newsgroup.
>
>Likewise.  Unmoderated, please.

Yes.



-- 
Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:02:06 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

albertw@netcom.com (Albert Wong) writes:

>wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:
>> 
>> You're misinterpreting this.  A name does have intrinsic value, as an
>> index.  That is why I prefer rec.arts.comics.manga: I think it is much
>> more useful as an index then rec.arts.manga.

>I would think that rec.arts.manga would be easier to find than
>rec.arts.comics.manga, because r.a.m is only three levels deep in the
>hierarchy.

    The index is to help your site's news admin in selecting which
groups your site actually gets. If more of the fragmented groups in the
net got together under coherent hierarchies, then this process becomes
much more simple and efficient for the news admins.
    And if you are going to go somantic on us in this discussio,
r.a.c.manga would come before r.a.manga on a newsgroup list due do the
alphabetical sorting of the group, and thus it would be found first.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:35:47 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.222930.22067@julian.uwo.ca> magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john macdonald) writes:
|In article <12390@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
|>
|>You`re right. alt.music.enya was created as a direct result of 
|>alt.music.enya.puke.puke.puke.
|>
|
|No.
|alt.music.enya was not created as a direct result of 
|alt.music.enya.puke.puke.puke.

I don't know why I am following this up but...

When someone "newgrouped" alt.music.enya.puke.puke.puke the alt.music.enya
hierarchy was automatically created.  That is, it created the news spool
directory /usr/spool/news/alt/music/enya/puke/puke/puke as well as 
/usr/spool/news/alt/music/enya.  Fans of enya were pissed off because
there discussion were taking place in a group with a disparaging name so
someone started a discussion in alt.config for alt.music.enya.  So I
maintain that alt.music.enya was a direct result of alt.music.enya.puke^3


-- 
+=============================================================================+
| John Fereira                Al Bundy for President          
| johnf@auspex.com         "He's as good as the next guy"                     |
+=============================================================================+
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:16:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.3lrjm_p
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:

> ...manga fans have been posting to r.a.anime for years.  They get better
> responses in an animation group than in a comic group.  Does that tell
> you something?  

Sure.  It tells me that fans of Japanese animation and Japanese comics
tend to cluster together.  I knew that to start with, and it isn't a fact
that should be used in deciding where a new newsgroup belongs.

If you folks think the "Japan"ness of the media is more important than
their "animation"ness or "comic"ness, you should run a vote to create a
rec.arts.japan hierarchy for rec.arts.japan.anime and rec.arts.japan.manga.
Otherwise, please play on the field as it exists *now*. 

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

"Hello.  My name is Julie, and this is the M-16."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: personals
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:33:28 GMT

imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:
>I think you've missed the point.  It's not that biasing the creation process
>to make it all or nothing won't work.  It's that the propogation of the four
>seperate groups could, and probably would, vary.

I don't think it will, myself. And if it does...I'm sure that where it matters
the resultant hue and cry will rectify the situation. 

Sometimes "politically correct" makes no logical sense at all.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov           ames!elroy!dxh

             Learn to behave from those who cannot.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:41:21 GMT

sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:
> Well, for one thing, people who don't know what manga are might have
> a better chance of finding the group and getting interested if they
> had some idea that "manga" are in some way related to comics.

I have been following this flamewas for a while, and I'll throw in this
single posting, for what it's worth...

I agree with Bob (and others) that manga (of which term I had never heard
before this discussion) is related to comics.  Having a .comics.manga
group will make it easier for people to identify what manga is -- and you
may even get some new manga fans from people who decide to peek in to see
what these manga comics are.  (Personally, I've now read some alt.manga
stuff, and I think I might buy some mangas if I can find them somewhere!)

However, all that said, I think the obnoxiousness and bullheadedness levels
of this discussion are approaching those of the sci.aquaria discussion. 
I'm not impressed.  I'll vote "YES" to rec.arts.comics.manga, and "NO" to
rec.arts.manga.  Sorry.

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: atkinsons@topaz.ucq.edu.au (Shane I G Atkinson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: CAL news group(s)
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:44:48 GMT
Organization: Chairman of the UCUF


    Myself and a friend are doing our third years projects in CAL (computer
AIDD Learning). Does anyone know of a suitable NEWS group OR mailing list on
this particular subject ???

     Thanks..

-- 

      
"Elles appeler moi noble"                                          ._________.  
                                    I Remain,               Action |    *    |
 "Appeler moi le Capitaine                     Shane        this   |*===*===*| 
    de la lutte"                            (Duc de Phi)    Day    |    *    |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| 
|  /~x~\  Duke of Phi |  Shane I G Atkinson - 3rd year Computing Degree      | 
|-._____.-------------|  Chairman of the University Computer Users Forum     |
| |_[_]_| University  |  DAAC Student Representitive  -  B. Computing (CA18) | 
| \==*==/ of Central  |  vax/vms -  atkinsons@topaz.ucq.edu.au               | 
|  `-.-'  Queensland  |  ultrix  -  atkinsos@jasper.ucq.edu.au         /><\  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: andre@farside.slc.mentorg.com (Andre' Hut)
Subject: Re: RESULT:  soc.religion.mormon fails 135: 169
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:47:51

In article <1992Apr13.181315.16440@uunet.uu.net> gritton@byu.edu (Jamie Gritton) writes:
   >The vote for soc.religion.mormon ended on 10 Apr 1992.
   >There were 135 valid "yes" votes and 169 valid "no" votes recieved.
   >This group will not be created, and should not be proposed again
   >until six months have passed. A list of votes recieved follows.

The fact that this proposal was so soundly defeated indicates to me that something was
seriously wrong with the proposal.  I noted from the list of votes, that people from
the "anti" and "pro" camps voted both ways, so I don't think that this can be called
a case of religious discrimination.

This proposal would have tied (from what I have gathered) a large mailing list to
a Usenet newsgroup.  Perhaps there were those who didn't want the mailing list to
become quite so public.

I complained about the statement in the charter indicating censorship.  Perhaps
someone agreed with me.

In any case, I highly suggest that six months from now, a new proposal be made that
is more agreeable to everyone.  The propose for the RFD-period is to work out any
problems with the proposal so that there is a reasonable chance the vote will
succeed.  I basically felt that the proponents of this proposal were ignoring the
negative comments.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are solely my own, and do not necessarily reflect those
of my employer.

Andre' Hut       andre@slc.mentorg.com  or  utah-cs!caeco!andre
Mentor Graphics, Suite 300, 5295 South 300 West, Murray, Utah 84107
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:02:22 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <axolotl.702613581@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> >    Purview? All I was talking about in that paragraph was the
> >appropriate place for the group. And what does the format of the comic
> >have to do with anything? The simple fact remains that the majority of
> >the net thinks that a comic book is a comic book, and while we may know
> >different, we are not the only people to consider in this mattter.

>Actually, we are.  Why should we consider the opinions of the uninformed?
>Why should people who don't know anything about manga tell us what it
>is and isn't, and where it should fit in the (already totally illogical)
>namespace?

Well, I live in a house with 10,000 comics which I don't own so I guess
I'm uninformed. The _charter_ for this group refers to manga as a type of
comic book. By accepting this charter proposal the supporters of the group
are telling us (the uninformed) that manga are comics.

And as for 'telling you' what you group is and is not. I get a vote even
if I don't read the group. And I think that manga, judging from the
description in the proposed charter, are comic books. Therefore they
belong in a comics hierarchy that can easily be extended of the existing
rec.arts.comics.

I would vote YES for rec.arts.comics.manga because that is where it should
be if it is about comics. I will vote NO for rec.arts.manga because it
clearly belongs in an existing hierarchy.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
	Contributing Dartmouth Alumnus
	"The only 9 you've ever seen was in arithmetic."
		-3rd Bass
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:53:29 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> >Incidentally manga isn't a type of
> >animation, in fact anime is really just animated manga. But the manga in
> >its original form is still a type of graphical novel, the hierarchy for
> >which is rec.arts.comics.

>Isn't Star Trek and Dr. Who in its original form "still a type of TV
>show"?  Why aren't they under rec.arts.tv.?   (Yes, I know, and it
>applies here too.) That's another precedent we'd have to break.

    Yes Dr. Who is a tv show, and yes there are Star Trek tv episodes.
The reason that they each have their own group is because they were
originally part of net.sf-lovers way back when, but their volume was
such that the warranted their own group. Thus net.startrek and net.drwho
were created. When the thime of the Great Net Reorg(tm) came around,
they changed to r.a.sf-lovers, r.a.startrek and r.a.drwho. And if you
had been reading news.groups for while you would have known that at the
time of the sf-lovers reorg an attempt was made to move the Star Trek
and Dr who groups back into the r.a.sf.* hierarchy.

>"And that's a whole other flamewar."

    It is, and it isn't. I have been talking about hierarchies this
whole time. And that is what I'm talking about now. In fact, I have
already stated my views on r.a.m vs r.a.startrek in a couple of posts
last week. Feel free to review them, as I will make every attempt not to
repeat myself.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:52:57 GMT
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:

>> I have to wonder how many of the people who are arguing for
>> rec.arts.manga are non-native speakers of English who aren't
>> interpreting words like "comics", "manga", and "anime" in the same way
>> that most native speakers would. 
>
> Are you calling me "ignorant" of the English language?

I'm calling *several* people ignorant of the English language, no sneer
quotes needed.  Anyone who makes constant incorrect assertions about what
specific words mean to the average English speaker is ignorant of something,
and the English language seems the most obvious something in sight.

> Just because I wasn't born here? 

I have no idea what's getting in the way of your comprehension of the
simple, direct explantions that people have been making about where
a new manga newsgroup would belong.  If English is a second language
to you, that seems a likely possibility.

>  I'm really sorry to hear you make a comment like that.

Well trust me on this one . . . I'm really sorry to have to make it.

> Furthermore, manga and anime are foreign terms which were translated 
> into English, and I for one would like to see it properly translated,
> instead of being pushed into a category by people who have not been 
> exposed to the environments in which they were created.   

You're far, far too late . . . especially since the people in alt.manga
and rec.arts.anime are doing *just* as much to perpetuate the "mis"use of
the words as anyone else. 

> I feel that the definitions of "comics" under common usage here on the
> net strongly emphasizes the western sequential art form, differentiating
> itself from the dictionary definition of such that you are so eager to
> defend.  

Your feeling is *wrong*.  A half-dozen or more regular posters to
rec.arts.comics have said as much.  If you think that the readers of
alt.manga can best define what manga are, you'd better be willing to
concede that the readers of rec.arts.comics can best define what *comics*
are.  And without this assertion to back you up, you have absolutely no
basis for insisting that the manga newsgroup *doesn't* belong in the
comics hierarchy.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: caleb@cbmtoruucp (Caleb J. Howard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.music.enya
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:19:14 GMT
Organization: Commodore Business Machines (CANADA)

Well, I for one have never before felt interested enough in a proposed
group to actually participate in a discussion.  I suppose that that makes
me apathetic, but oh well, so be it.

Yes, I think that a newsgroup to discuss Enya-esque music is a damn fine idea.
I could perhaps get a definitive answer to the question; How does Enya herself
pronounce "Enya"?  I have heard a lot of variations, the most predominant 
seems to be ehn-ya, but I have also heard on-ya?  What's the deal?

I will reserve other discussion of the actual subject for a time when the
actual group exists.  For now, I say let's do it.

-caleb


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The key to surviving as an egoless entity within the computer industry is to 
                                 be insidious.
From: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Another problem with rec.arts.comics.{manga/japan}
Date: 11 Apr 92 11:37:01 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <axolotl.702885083@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>With rec.arts.manga, it would be rec.arts.manga.gag (or
>rec.arts.manga.strips).
>
>With rec.arts.comics.manga or no mainstream manga group, it would be either
>rec.arts.comics.manga.strips or rec.arts.comics.strips.manga.  THAT'S an ugly
>namespace.

... or rec.arts.comics.manga.gag.  Seems fine to me.  There are 75 newsgroups
in our active file with names as long as that or longer.  How often do you
have to type the name of a group, anyway ?  When you do how much extra effort
is 7 characters ?

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz)
Subject: Wanted: Listing of rec.arts.sf.* groups
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 05:25:42 GMT

Subject line says it all. Please!!!!!
-- 
          Mark Arthur Holtz           <:> UUCP: PacBell.COM! -> mholtz!sactoh0
* Keeper - Star Trek List of Lists    <:>     ucbvax!csusac! /
* Compiler - "The Simpsons" Air Dates <:>
 and "The Simpsons" Episode Guide     <:> Internet: mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.who-would-win
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 05:09:25 GMT


In a previous article, forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) says:

>This is a formal Request For Discussion, proposing the creation of an
>unmoderated newsgroup:
>
>alt.who-would-win

Here on rec.arts.comics we call it "Hoo'd Win".
 I think.  The apostrophe might be wrong.

Makes sense as a group.  But would enough people
 use it?
-- 
Francis A. Uy
fau@po.cwru.edu
cs201329@umbc5.ubc.edu
From: wai@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Benjamin Wai)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:41:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44543
Reply-To: wai@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Benjamin Wai)
Organization: Purdue Animation Club, Purdue University

In article <1992Apr8.155538.21448@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>                                    ...... .I can't understand why
>people are place so much emphasis on what they think the name means.


	Exactly. I agree. 
	Therefore, we will keep it as Rec.arts.manga - clear, simple  
	and straight forwards.


>
>--
>-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
> hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
> Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
> Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry




	=> Rec.arts.manga!!!


---
  *- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -*
 /           Benjamin Wai         \\        < wai@sage.cc.purdue.edu >     \
(         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~       \\        < wai@cn.ecn.purdue.edu >     )
 \ - - *   Purdue University   * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /
  * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *
From: bn510@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Matthew L. High)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: duplicate vote
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:40:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.094050.17356
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


Ian -

  The duplicate vote is so noted.  I thought I had caught all of
  them, but that just goes to show you that nobody's perfect.

Vote tally is amended to 90 to 58.

 - mhigh@vm1.tucc.trinity.edu   (net.spy!)