HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leffler@physics.ubc.ca (Steve Leffler )
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: Monetary "theory"
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:36:56 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.ubc.ca

cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:

[Long explanation mostly deleted, for brevity]

>   MR A's Bank Balance
>=========================
>    $100    |

>This wasn't changed by the transaction.  Mr. A. still has a deposit of
>$100 in the bank.

> Bank of B's Cash Balance
>=========================
>    $100    |
>            |    $90
>-------------------------
>     $10

>With the two transactions, the Bank of B has only $10 on hand.  That's
>ok.  Ms. C owes them $90, and they can use the "payable on demand"
>clause if they absolutely need that $90 back.

>But wait - Ms. C has some money too.

> Ms. C's Cash Balance
>==========================
>     $90    |

>Altogether, these three cash balances add up to $200, which is
>considerably more than the $100 that Mr. A started with.  And that
>$200 will wind up being what M1 looks like.

   Wonderful, so our entire economic system is based on the same principle as
that used by the inventors of perpetual motion machines.  It works as long as
you don't look too closely.
  
   If Mr. A decides to withdraw his $100, the Bank of B invokes the "1 week
notice of withdrawal" clause on his account, and tries to collect from Ms. C.
If she has already spent the money, and cannot afford to repay the loan the 
Bank of B goes bankrupt.  They repay their creditors out of their available 
assets.  Since in this simplified example A is their only creditor, he gets
$10.  So A has $10 and the merchants C gave her $90 to have $90.  The $200
in money which formerly existed has suddenly been transformed back into 
$100, and the banking system has fallen to pieces.

				     ---Steven Leffler
					leffler@physics.ubc.ca

Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: d40937@aiken (Jean Yves Desbiens)
Subject: We are caught! all our politicians stink! 
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:57:34 GMT

TJ Doran (tjdoran@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: I have no more faith in Chretien than you do, and even less faith in the 
: NDP. I am still voting against the Tories, however, beacause they haven't
: managed to do anything right in 8 years.

Well, that says it all, we are caught between those who haven't done 
anything right and those who promise do to do everything wrong :
tear up the FTA, stop the GST, spend till all is good again, etc. 

Bref , on est dans la merde jusqu'au cou. Mais, les politiciens 
font ce que l'on veut qu'ils fassent. C'est en ne pensant qu'a
soi-meme et en projetant ces desirs sur les politiciens qu'un
pays fait du sur place.

Talk about a bilingual post. C'est beau savoir deux langue. 
--
SEIZE THE DAY, MAKE YOUR LIFE EXTRAORDINARY .  "Dead Poets Society"

Jean-Yves Desbiens                  | d40937@info.polymtl.ca
Etudiant en genie informatique      | 
Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal Can | To indeed be a god ...,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky can.general:6069 can.politics:10917
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: Monetary "theory"
Date: 17 Dec 1992 17:33:24 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services, UBC, Canada
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: swiss.ucs.ubc.ca

In article <1glj5oINNlj1@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> leffler@physics.ubc.ca (Steve Leffler ) writes:
>   Wonderful, so our entire economic system is based on the same principle as
>that used by the inventors of perpetual motion machines.  It works as long as
>you don't look too closely.
>  
>   If Mr. A decides to withdraw his $100, ...
 ... and the banking system has fallen to pieces.

 All banks are in deep doo-doo if more than a fraction of their
 depositors withdraw their funds.  A bank exists by always owing
 a great deal of money to people who have lent it to the bank at
 one rate of interest, and simultaneously being owed a great deal
 of money by people who have borrowed it from the bank at a rate
 of interest sufficiently higher that the bank's expenses are
 covered and something is left over for profit.  All the rest is
 details.
Newsgroups: can.general,talk.politics.animals
From: jbutt@odie.cs.mun.ca (Jonathan Butt)
Subject: Good Canadian wines for Xmas (don't Laugh)
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 03:24:17 GMT


Does any one know of any good Canadian Wines I can give as gifts for Xmas??

I.ve heard of the Inneskiln (?) winery in Niagar on the Lake, are there any other good wineries in Canada?
If so post or e-mail me please.

Thanks.

-- 
Jonathan D. Butt (aka. Slammer)
jbutt@garfield.cs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: can.general,rec.food.veg
From: merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer)
Subject: Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:25:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.061539.20592@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.045709.29345@xenitec.on.ca> merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer) writes:
>>do you really take yourself this seriously, or are you really that big of a
>>twit?
>
>Why are you calling someone a twit, when she has merely clarified the
>dietary characteristics of a vegan? So you can't take in opinion
>contrary to your own and think about them?

i'm sorry, but i differentiate between a vegetarian, and a vegan, the latter
to me is a clique-ish term used by devote vegetarians.

someone said (was it not you?) "i am a vegetarian, but i add shellfish in
for balance".

she said you eat shellfish, therefore you are not a vegetarian.

this is similar to saying you can't possibly be catholic, you had premarital
sex.

in some people's eyes, to conform to a group, you need to be perfect, in other
people's eyes, there is some room for variance.

some people's definition of vegitarianism does not allow milk, or honey,
or anything else that exploits the existance of aother organism.

some people hallow a certain amount of variance.

to categorically say that one cannot be a vegetarian because of a variance,
is being a bit to picky to me.

the term vegan, on the otherhand, to me means someone who has put
considerable time and effort into defining what and how they plan to live
in a vegetarian sense.

>>does anyone, other than yourself, meet your high goals of non-cruelty?
>
>Lots of people do! I see hundreds of them at The Green Door whenever I
>eat there! I see more hundreds at lots of pot luck dinners I go to!

do these people wear non-leather shoes?  do they wear natural fiber
clothing, so that chemical by-products do not pollute the environment
of animals?.  do they use any method of transportation that uses
fossil fuels?

are they totally non-cruel?

if not, they they do not meet the goals of non-cruelty of someone who equate
the killing of cattle for food, with burning a live dog for entertainment.

>Just because you haven't met them shurely doesn't mean they don't
>exist! By extension, if you keep reading can.politics, you'd think the
>Reform party will get 95% of the national vote the next time around!
>The Net is _not_ a reality check on the general mood of the Canadian
>population, as I've been told recently by some kind soul out there.

yes, and if you keep adjusting your moral and ethical attitudes, by only
accepting beliefs from utopians, you will need a reality check.


-- 
[ Jim Mercer   Reptilian Research  merce@iguana.reptiles.org  +1 519 893-6085 ]
[             I don't want to work for a company that has a CIO.              ]
[              Disclaimer! I don't need no stinking Disclaimer!               ]
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: The debt
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:13:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.002004.25480@sq.sq.com> donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed) writes:
>>I'm glad you're not my accountant.  If I deposit $100 in the bank, I'm loaning
>>the bank $100.  That means I have a $100 asset and the bank has a $100
>>liability.
>
>No that means the bank has your $100 dollars and the bank can now loan out
>about $1000.  If you didn't know this you have been living in a hole.

So where does the bank get the additional $900?
Newsgroups: can.general
From: sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh)
Subject: Re: Good Canadian wines for Xmas (don't Laugh)
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:38:40 GMT
Summary: Not laughing

In article <1992Dec10.032417.14262@cs.mun.ca> jbutt@odie.cs.mun.ca (Jonathan Butt) writes:
>
>Does any one know of any good Canadian Wines I can give as gifts for Xmas??
>
>I.ve heard of the Inneskiln (?) winery in Niagar on the Lake, are there any other good wineries in Canada?

Inniskilin makes several good wines, and there are a lot of other good
Ontario wineries as well (and B.C., but I don't know much about them).
In whites, look for rieslings and chardonnays.  In reds, look for
pinot noirs and gamays among others.  I often buy from Pelee Island
and Chateau des Charmes.

On Ontario wines, look for the VQA label around the top of the bottle.
That means it's been selected as particularly good (I think it stands
for vintage quality assurance) by a panel of wine experts.

Also, if you want a real treat (an expensive one), look for icewine.
It's a dessert wine, and several Ontario wineries make them.  They've
won many international competitions.

Tony Aspler just published an entire book about Canadian wines and
wineries.  I've got an earlier book of his - he's very understandable,
not just for wine experts (which I'm not).
-- 
Stephanie Moskal Fysh    |   "Today an eighteenth-century scholar may well
Dept. of English         |   be Jewish, female, or generally irreverent."
Univ. of Toronto         |                             - Lawrence Lipking
(sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca) |                            
Newsgroups: can.general
From: carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges)
Subject: Re: Good Canadian wines for Xmas (don't Laugh)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 11:59:40 GMT

jbutt@odie.cs.mun.ca (Jonathan Butt) writes:
>Does any one know of any good Canadian Wines I can give as gifts for Xmas??

I don't think Molson makes wine.  Labatt's may, however... ;-)
-- 
C. Miguel Borges        and his EVIL TWIN BROTHER (tm)        Carlos M. Borges
carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca <-------------------------> carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca
##############################################################################
Memorial University of Newfoundland, St. John's, NF. Canada []*[] <-cheap flag
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: Drug Price Rise = End of Universal Health Care in Canada
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:34:15 GMT

In article <3aXHVB4w164w@ham.almanac.bc.ca> emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca writes:
>amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn) writes:
>
>> In article <wygeVB2w164w@ham.almanac.bc.ca> emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca writes:
>> >If it's not stealing to print copies of a book when the copyright 
>> >expires, it's not stealing to make copies of a drug when the drug patent 
>> >expires. 
>> 
>> I think the poster meant moral intellectual theft, not legal theft.
>> The law is only a poor approximation of the moral ideal.
>> 
>

yes, intellectual theft.
>
>I don't agree. I think the original poster used the word "stealing" in a 
>perjorative way to denigrate the generic drug manufacturers, all of whom 
>are operating under the existing rules.
>


what other connotation does stealing have?


Calling it stealing is just simply calling it what it is.

The current system rationalizes some arbitrary, 'social good' and
uses the law to override a basic right: property. The justification
just doesn't cut it, and Canada deserves the flack it is getting from
Europe and the USA. The generic drug companies stir up all kinds of
conspiracies to divert attention from the real issue: theft.

If a drug company, software publisher, individual etc. spends time
and money inventing something, they damn well have a right to profit
from their labors if they hit upon a success. Price and inconvenience
to others are non-issues.

There was a good recap on this patent stuff in the Globe & Mail a little
while ago. Basically, Trudeau thought drugs were too expensive, so the
Liberals decreed that it was legal for generic makers (who never invested
a penny in developing the drug) to copy and profit from other people's
works. Ie, the end justifies the means. Stealing, only we call it 
by another name to rationalize the process.


In another post, you wondered why normal patents get 17 years and drugs
get 20. under the proposed legislation, all patents will be 20 years
to comply with international consensus. AT least this is consistent
(one can quibble about 19 vs 20 years) and at least drugs aren't singled
out because of some social policy that tries to subvert a person's
right to profit from their own hard work.



Just because the government (under Trudeau) arbitrarily acted to limit
another's right to property (by changing the patent rules) doesn't  change
the fact that it is stealing.


>
>emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca  (Robert Smits, Ladysmith B.C.)
>
>Support your fellow Canadians. We should buy lousy Canadian novels 
>instead of importing lousy American novels. - Johnny Wayne


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: can.general,rec.food.veg
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Originator: clewis@bcarh1d7
Organization: Nope
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.052111.6745@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
|In article <1992Dec17.221824.25929@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
|>I believe a better analogy is a vegetarian who eats fish (or other
|>flesh) now and then is like a person who takes a vow of celibacy
|>and only has sex now and then.

|None of these analogies are necessary, nor are they accurate.

|Keeping to a vegetarian diet could be motivated by religion, compassion
|for animals, care for one's health, care for the planet's health,
|preference for certain types of food, or simply by sheer coincidence
|without any concious restriction on one's part to any particular food
|type.

Why is irrelevant.  However hard you wiggle, a fish is *not* a plant, let
alone a vegetable.  The use of the term "vegetarian" by people who
*still* eat fish is a lie, even tho some dictionaries have been
mislead into doing so.  Truth in advertising and all that....

It's like the a hotel advertising "hot and cold running water available",
then in small print "except for hot".

|That silly debate over vegan being something like a Jim Jones-led
|religious sect is just that: SILLY.

Some of the Vegan cant is just as silly as any religious sect's.
Jim Jones was definately non-silly.  Dead is never silly.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Subject: Re: Note to Schuck, Beauregard and their like
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:32:49 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1128

From article <1992Dec10.135843.4654@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, by bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross):
> grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
> : 
> : Read these words and behold:
> : 
> : 
> : ================================================================== 
> : 
> : Words spoken from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial
> : one summer day, 1963
> :
> : [...] 
> : 
> :  I have a dream today.
> : [...] 
> 
> A Trudeau apologist like Tom Gray has a lot of nerve quoting Abraham Lincoln.
                                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Martin Luthor King, wasn't it?


Here's a quote from Robert Bourassa:-

Said in the Quebec National Assembly on March 14th, 1989:-

"nous avons suspendu les libertes fondamentales..."

[transl.] "we have suppressed fundamental liberties..."

:-(
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.general,talk.politics.animals
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: ?SENDING SASE CANADA TO U
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:12:26 GMT

rbutterw@math.uwaterloo.ca (Ray Butterworth [MFCF]) writes:
>
>(It might be illegal to send cash through the mails,
> but I doubt you'd get a long prison term if caught.)


I do not believe that it is illegal to send cash through the mails,
neither here in Canada nor the US.

We are always told never to send cash through the mails, but this
is a recommendation, not a law.  The reason is common sense, there
is no tracing cash -- if it is lost or stolen, it's gone.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
Newsgroups: can.general,ns.general
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Lead news stories...
Followup-To: can.general
	<1992Dec11.201120.9469@ac.dal.ca> <1992Dec14.192415.18507@elegant.com>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:49:13 GMT
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: can,ns
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec14.192415.18507@elegant.com> rstory@elegant.com (Robert Story) writes:

   In article <1992Dec11.201120.9469@ac.dal.ca> jsteeves@ac.dal.ca (Jason Steeves) writes:
   > In article <Bz24yw.Dqs@cs.dal.ca>, franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
   > > In article <Bz1xFL.AwK@cs.dal.ca> colin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin Edward Mac Donald) writes:
   > >>	But no, the lead story is:
   > >>
   > >>		CHARLES AND DIANA ARE SEPERATED!!!
   > 
   > > Personally? I laugh at people who think that Lady
   > > Di will still be implemented as queen. I say fat chance - then again, I
   > > couldn't care less. I say we liquidate the monarchial assets, and put all
   > > those billions to some REAL use.
   > 
   > If Diana's not Queen, Charles won't be king. Their eldest son will.
   > Just about the only thing keeping them together now is the knowledge
   > that if Diana divorces, she'll automatically lose custody of their
   > eldest son (and probably the younger too). He'd become "property of
   > the crown" or some such nonsence (heir to the throne).

   A lot depends on public opinion ... and a recent poll suggests that
   60% of Brits think that Charles should become king whereas only 33%
   believe that Diana should become Queen.  There is certainly precedence
   for a divorced Charles to become king ... George IV was divorced.
   Although this was before Queen Victoria made it clear that the
   monarchy should set the moral tone for the nation.

I believe George VI was only separated.  The media have been
repeatedly saying that a monarch has not divorced their mate since
Henry VIII.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: Gun Control Petition
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:00:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.010922.17767@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.234813.10888@xenitec.on.ca> merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer) writes:
>>please don't be absurd.
>>devote macrobiotics make up a very minute percentage of the world population.
 [devout]
>>(very, very minute as our friends on the Kraft Mayonnaise commercial would say)
>>hunting and keeping livestock would only be of questionable legitimacy if
>>we had food generators like on star trek.
>>
>We could eat the grain and soybeans which are fed to livestock.  Surely
>most people have heard by now the statistics:  n kgs of grain to produce
>1 kg of meat, where n is significantly greater than 1.

since there are MOUNTAINS of grain and soybeans, more bread than anyone could
eat, it makes sense to feed it to animals, otherwise it would rot. Farmers
also feed the soggy, almost mouldy grain to animals, long before they
start using top quality grain for feed.


Do you eat grass? Alfalfa (not sprouts! the REAL plant)? marginal pasture?
Growing grain on pasture land makes as much sense as  growing crops
on former rainforest land (after slash'n'burn)

>
>>until then, you will find a need for meat and other livestock products.
>>a need, not a desire, as converting one's system to a diet entirely
>>independant of the exploitation of animals is not something everyone can do.
>
>Very very few Canadians are in a position where they must eat meat.

probably true. Why should they make any sacrifices? They LIKE meat, it's
not bad for them (in moderation). 

People who who don't eat meat for health reasons, may have a case, but
people who don't eat meat for ethical reasons, ought to to spend some time
on a farm, or living with hunter gatherers. These people need a reality
check. Living in cities has detached them from nature, and all
her splendour (and brutality). A couple of months living hand to mouth,
hunting, trapping, fishing, and then skinning, gutting, tanning etc.
Or alternatively, on a farm raising crops and livestock, harvesting, 
slaughtering etc. Better to start this children, so they don't development
such sentimental, Disney-cute attititudes.

>-- 
>Rosemary Waigh             Undergraduate, Computer Science / Linguistics
>g9rwaigh@cdf.utoronto.ca   University of Toronto
>	"Looking at the Earth from afar you realize it is too small
>	for conflict and just big enough for co-operation."  Yuri Gagarin


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics