HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: More weird swimmer's races
Keywords: chug, hurl
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:07:48 GMT

In the 1986 US Masters National Championships in Ft. Pierce, Florida, they
actually HELD a Rocky Mountain Relay!  To avoid the possibility of hurling
in the pool, each contestant swam a 50 (up and back), and THEN drank a can
of beer.  Only when finished could the next member of the relay swim.  I
recall that the winning relay team was, I swear, Coors...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: redmondd@unix1.tcd.ie (Judge Raz)
Subject: Re: freestyle breathing
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:39:39 GMT

In <136820008@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> lkc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Lee Casuto) writes:

>Hi Mike,
>    I'm no expert; I'm just relating personal experience.  I find that
>what I do in workout may or may not reflect what happens in a meet.

What happens is that when your body is under stress it reverts to an
experience which it is used to. Example: If you normally breathe every
stroke in training then when you're racing, breathing every 5th, and
you're trying to push yourself to go faster your body will revert to 
breathing every stroke. Therefore you should practice as you intend
to race, perfect turns, correct breathing, etc.

Judge Raz

redmondd@unix1.tcd.ie  |    ~~~    |  You got my body now you want my soul 
Donncha Redmond        |    o-o    |  Now can't have none of that 
National Swim Team     |     ^     |  Tell her whatta say Mace 
Ireland		       |    `-'    |  Say no go		-- De La Soul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: swimmer@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Jennifer Bouck)
Subject: Re: Shoulder Problems
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:45:59 GMT

ahkkim@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Alexander Kim) writes:

>I have been swimming for a long time now and quite recently, I have developed
>shoulder problems.  Iwent to a doctor to have it checked out and he said it was
>burcitis (sp?).  He told me to lay off any heavy shoulder work for about six
>weeks.  Unfortuneately, I can not hold off that long.  I have to start serious
>workouts in about three weeks.  One of my friends said she had a similar 
>problem, but that she swam through the pain, but now she  has to deal with
>a dislocated shoulder problem.  Can anyone share any similar experiences or
>offer any advice?

I have had shoulder problems since I was a junior in high school.  I am now 
a junior in college swimming on a partial scholarship.  I have also been 
through every imaginable treatment known to man...naprosyn, ultrasound, 
stretches, exercises, heat, ice...sometimes it helps, but rest has been the 
most successful treatment for me, but I must admit, it can be very frustrating.
The doctor has told me I probably wouldn't cause any permanent damage, so I 
have risked it because I love swimming.  I think though my shoulder will be 
very happy when my swim career is over.  


			_jennifer
=========================================================================
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|	      ,______\@          swimmer@catt.ncsu.edu		    	|
|	  ^^^^,__'    \^^^      				       	|
From: ag@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (andy garton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: FAQ?
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:21:29 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.

Is there a FAQ for this group?  If so, could someone email me a copy please?

Thanks in advance.
From: daavid@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Daavid Turnbull)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: "Freestyle" vs. "Crawl"
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:56:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

> or pull on the lane rope (They can merely garb onto it though.).  Besides,
> the crawl is more properly termed the Australian Crawl, as it was the
> Aborigines who "developed" it (?).  Americans just perfected it ;-).
Unless of course it is over 1500 meters and then the Yanks can just look
in awe as does the rest of the world ;-)  ^^^"^^/\o^^^


-- 
	Daavid Turnbull
	daavid@bohra.cpg.oz   +61 3 823 0222    (fax) +61 3 824 8068
	uunet!munnari!bohra.cpg.oz!daavid
	CP Software Export Pty Ltd                   ACN 006 640 133
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: u911469@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Carl Moller)
Subject: Waterpolo Drills
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:40:51 GMT

Yo. I'm looking to come up with some new drills for waterpolo training. Most
of the folk playing in our club are novices/inexperinced, and I want to find
drills that will:
a. teach them swimming and especially ball skills
b. get them thinking about tactics
c. raise their level of fitness

Could anyone who knows any good, _fun_, innovative skills please mail them to 
me at u911469@postoffice.utas.edu.au as I don't have time to check the newsgroup
very often.

Thanks

Carl Moller
u911469@postoffice.utas.edu.au
668 - the Neighbour of the Beast!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: butscher@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Adrian Butscher)
Subject: Breaststroke kick
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:22:06 GMT

Would someone describe the mechanics of the breaststroke kick.  I'm teaching
it right now, and I just want to clear up the details.  In particular, during
which phase are the ankles flexed, and when do the begin pointing?

Adrian

PS: post replies please.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: smith@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au (Scott Smith)
Subject: Freestyle Breathing
Organization: External Studies, Murdoch University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:41:26 GMT

G'day all.

Just noticed that the issue of bilateral breathing has appeared again in the
newsgroup.  This topic came up about a month ago, when most posters/readers
were interested in how to develop a bilateral style in their stroke.  Like
most aspects of swimming (and sport in general), with every positive outcome
there is also a negative one.  Bilateral breathing is something which needs
to be developed overtime, and will result in many annoying situations along
the way, such as ears filling with water, neck and shoulder problems, and
"stitches" caused by erratic breathing patterns.

Some of the swimmers I coach have perfected an individual breathing pattern
similar to that displayed by Kieran Perkins in Barcelona.  Most long distance
swimmers breath every stroke or every two to three.  In most cases, they have
a rythym which may be something like this:  two breaths to the left, one to
the right, etc.  One swimmer of mine seems to do this naturally, and while I
encourage him to opt for a more regulated pattern like every three strokes,
he seems to be comfortable with his established pattern.

I can't stress how important stretching the shoulder and neck muscles is before
commencing any form of intensive crawl training.  Aside from swinging the arms
around in a windmill fashion, swimmers should also stretch the neck muscles
by tilting the head to one side so that a stretch can be felt down the side of
the neck.  Also, placing one hand one the forehead and then pressing the head
into the hand.  Of course stretching the lats, triceps and upper and lower
spine is imperative.

Bilateral breathing can be perfected over time, the aim should be to introduce
it gradually into your workouts.  Usually in the first 800m of your swim 
workout while you are reasonably fresh.  Bilaterial breathing encourages a
balanced stroke, and assists with the prevention of damage to the neck and
shoulder region which can occur because of the extra workload placed on this
area by breathing to one side.

Keep on swimmin'

Scott

smith@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: swimmer@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Jennifer Bouck)
Subject: Re: Stretching
Keywords: stretch
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:52:35 GMT

bryan@ruapehu.ucsb.edu writes:

>What are some good stretches for before and after swimming?

Lets see how well I can describe the exercises the Wolfpack goes
through....

First, we begin with neck stretches, front to back, side to side (rolling
is supposedly not good)

Swing arms in circles first forward, then backwards for each arm.

Pull arm across chest and pull behind neck 

Get with a partner and grab your partners arms behind their back and bring
them slowly together until your partner says stop

For legs, first cross your feet and bend over to touch toes, cross legs both 
ways

Sit on the ground with legs spread and reach to each leg, and in the middle

Put one leg bent over the other which is straight out and twist at your torso

Bring feet together in kind of a diamond shape and press down on your legs to
the ground

I think thats about it... I hope you can figure out these from my descriptions.
I must say, its a lot easier to show then describe!


			GO WOLFPACK....MEN'S ACC CHAMPIONS!!
=========================================================================
|	           ,_             				       	|
|	      ,______\@          swimmer@catt.ncsu.edu		    	|
|	  ^^^^,__'    \^^^      				       	|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: jmains@latech.edu (John P. Mains)
Subject: RE: freestyle Breathing
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:50:29 GMT

One possible answer against breathing every other stroke:
I swam 12 years competitively, and ranked top 4 in Louisiana
for about the last 5 years and did about at 17 min 1500m.  I 
was predominately a long 
distance swimmer.  Breathing to the same side constantly
throughout a race would cause the shoulder on that breathing 
side to really start to hurt...bad.  This was the only time
I ever had problems with my shoulders.  EVERYONE else I new
down here that competed in the longer events had the same
problem when always breathing to the same side.  Unless
you are REALLY good (like that Olympian you mentioned), your 
pull tends to screw up also (one arm pulls harder and deeper 
than the other).  So in my opinion, stay away from breathing
to the same side constantly, otherwise you may end up hurting
your stroke and yourself.

JPMains
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: cockrel@shab06.larc.nasa.gov (Charlie Cockrell)
Subject: Re: "Freestyle" vs. "Crawl"
Originator: cockrel@shab06.larc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:35:59 GMT

In article <5673@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> phl@fiveg.icl.co.uk ( Peter H Liyanage) writes:
>So far any of the 
>Four(4) recognised strokes can be used in a freestyle event,
>but obviously since Crawl is the fastest, it is used. 
>If a fifth stroke is found and APPROVED, I am sure
>it could also be used in freestyle.
>			Pete.!

You don't even have to do this - you can do *ANYTHING* you want in
freestyle, except for walk on the bottom, pull on the lane lines or
leave the pool. The only requirement is that you touch the wall after
each lap. (Oops, I mean length :-))

-- 
Charlie Cockrell                          VV     VV 1991 Men's Soccer Champs.
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, Va. VV   VV  1992 Men's NIT Champions  
U.Va. School of Engineering, Class of 1990  VV VV   1992 Women's ACC BB Champs.
(These are my opinions only)                 VVV     NCAA East Regional Champs.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: jason@research.canon.oz.au (Jason Stummer)
Subject: Re: freestyle breathing
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:20:57 GMT

st901812@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>Mike Xakellis wrote saying that he watched the Australian who broke the 
>record in the 1500, who breathed every other stroke.  By every other 

(stuff deleted here)

>My question is this.  I saw that when the Australian switched breathing sides
>(about once a length), he would breath twice in one arm cycle, left and

(more stuff deleted here)



I figure if you guys are going to talk about him in this news group I might as well
give you a name to put to that magic world record swim - KIEREN PERKINS.
Remember it well! he already held the 1500m record before the Olympics and our guess
over here in Oz is that he will hold it for a long time to come.
-- 
Jason Stummer                                |"I believe that speed doesn't kill -
Canon Information Systems Research Australia |     it just hurts !" 
PO Box 313 NORTH RYDE NSW 2113               |  REEBOK commercial.
jason@research.canon.oz.au  Phone +61-2-805-2900,Fax +61-2-805-2929
From: daavid@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Daavid Turnbull)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: freestyle breathing
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:52:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <5869@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> roat@rrc.chevron.com writes:
> Bilateral breathing is recommended because it helps keep your stroke symetric - so you swim straight.  If you work on keeping the mechanics of your stroke correct, breathing every other stroke is not a problem.  And it lets you get more oxygen into your lungs.  A scheme of breathing 10-15 times on one side then alternating to 10-15 times on the
> other works great if you can keep swimming in a straight line.  The key is comfort -

I have recently converted my freestyle stroke to bilateral breathing.  The
biggest problem that I find is that you end up with two ears full of water
as opposed to one!

-- 
	Daavid Turnbull
	daavid@bohra.cpg.oz   +61 3 823 0222    (fax) +61 3 824 8068
	uunet!munnari!bohra.cpg.oz!daavid
	CP Software Export Pty Ltd                   ACN 006 640 133
From: ahkkim@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Alexander Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Shoulder  Problems
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:26:52 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

I have been swimming for a long time now and quite recently, I have developed
shoulder problems.  Iwent to a doctor to have it checked out and he said it was
burcitis (sp?).  He told me to lay off any heavy shoulder work for about six
weeks.  Unfortuneately, I can not hold off that long.  I have to start serious
workouts in about three weeks.  One of my friends said she had a similar 
problem, but that she swam through the pain, but now she  has to deal with
a dislocated shoulder problem.  Can anyone share any similar experiences or
offer any advice?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: jason@research.canon.oz.au (Jason Stummer)
Subject: Re: Shoulder Problems (LONG)
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:03:31 GMT

billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell) writes:

>In article <Bt4w8s.AnA@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, ahkkim@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Alexander Kim) writes:
>(deleted)

>Well, you hit upon something that I know *alot* about (but only from a 
>personal/non-medical standpoint).  My Junior year in HS, I developed serious
>shoulder problems (i.e. Rheumatoid Arhtritis that destroyed alot of cartilage,
>which in turn led to a 3 year bout with Bursitis).  I wonder whether your 
>friend really simply swam through it as the pain can be very intense during
>certain ranges of motion.  I combatted it by taking at some points 1000mg
>of Naporsyn as well as 2400mg of Ibuprofen (Yes, I bled profusely when I got
>a cut!).  I felt this was not worth it, so I quit swimming after my first
>semester in college, and now play Rugby.  Anyway, as to the ways around 
>Bursitis:

(stuff deleted here)

>Basically, what you need to do is find some way of getting resistance to 
>your shoulder in a constructive way.  Regardless of the method,  your arm
>should be bent 90 degrees at the shoulder and your ELBOW MUST STAY STIGHT

(more stuff deleted)

>it is much easier to show than to tell.  Either way, make sure you do a high
>amount of repetitions (50+) each way, you're trying to build muscle power 
>(strength over time), not bulk.

Just a note about the very last piece of advice here....high reps (50+) with a light
to medium weight will actually build muscular **endurance**, not power as mentioned.
If power and strength are the goals then use relatively heavy weights - 90-100% of
1RM (1RM = the heaviest weight you can do a single rep with) and do sets of 1-6 reps.
Building bulk is actually best achieved by using medium weights 70-85% of 1RM and
doing sets of 8-15reps.

Not really knowing alot about Bursitis, I imagine that the advice was correct
however the terminology wrong. Building a good balance of muscles in the shoulder
joint sounds like what is necessary and high reps with light weights (endurance) is
a reasonable way to go about achieving this. Power, on the other hand is actually
a term used to describe the ability of a muscle to achieve maximum contraction in 
the shortest time possible.

Don't mean to be picky !!

-- 
Jason Stummer                                |"I believe that speed doesn't kill -
Canon Information Systems Research Australia |     it just hurts !" 
PO Box 313 NORTH RYDE NSW 2113               |  REEBOK commercial.
jason@research.canon.oz.au  Phone +61-2-805-2900,Fax +61-2-805-2929
From: I.A.Inman@newcastle.ac.uk (Ian Alexander Inman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: headaches during LSD on cool days.
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:04:14 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.


Well if your doing LSD while your swimming... ;-)

Seriously though, I think insufficient food intake may be the problem.

The guidelines as I understand them, are don't swim within two hours of
eating, or when your stomach is completely empty.

You would probably get the headaches anyway if you didn't eat for a
while.   I think the reasoning goes something along the lines of
the body using up the remaining glycogen in your body, and not being
able to get replacement sugars.

When you exercise, the body sugars are used up even quicker, thus the
headaches.   Eating, preferably carbohydrates (and not doing LSD :-) )
a couple of hours before hand will help.

If you are also slowing down and feeling tired, then I think this is the
answer.

(And could you send me some LSD, I have a few customers!!!!! :-) )

					I.A.Inman@newcastle.ac.uk (n08dp)


\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//
	"And he's got the ball, and no - one's passing it to him"

		- Football commentry, European Cup, Sweden.

//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
From: jsalmi@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (John Salmi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Fins... (was Re: Shoulder Problems)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:00:12 GMT
Organization: US West Information Technologies, Denver

In article <1992Aug19.165033.6821@morrow.stanford.edu> caroline@topaz.Stanford.EDU (Caroline Lambert) writes:
>
>If you absolutely have to swim, then get a pair of short fins like
>Zoomers, which allow you to get a good workout without putting such a
>heavy load on your shoulders.
>
>Then you only have to deal with your coach and lane mates who think
>you are being lazy or want to show off by going fast ....
>

while i was working out last night, i was passed a couple times by this
`older' woman in the next lane.  older is relative, i guess.  i was putting
in a hard night, and felt somewhat slow in comparison to the workout she
was doing.  so, i let her pace me.  i kept up with her for about 400 yds,
then i just pooped out.  and she kept up that incredible pace.  turns out
that she was wearing totally colorless fins.  and wow, did she crank out
the laps.  1.25 miles in abour 40 min.

hmm.  maybe I need to get ME some of those things.  :-)

on a related note, i'd like feedback on hand paddles.  i've not had the
opportunity to try them out, but a young collegiate swimmer that i was
pacing last week had a pair of them, and he remarked at the upper body
workout that he got from them.  

cheers,
-- 
John Salmi		<jsalmi@uswest.com>		(303) 595-2863

Last night, as I lay awake in bed looking at the stars, I asked myself:
                     Where the heck is my roof?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: pychen@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter Y. Chen)
Subject: Re: headaches during LSD on cool days -- But only when I swim
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:26:17 GMT

In article <BsvJ32.LG9@newcastle.ac.uk> I.A.Inman@newcastle.ac.uk (Ian Alexander Inman) writes:
>
>Seriously though, I think insufficient food intake may be the problem.
>
>When you exercise, the body sugars are used up even quicker, thus the
>headaches.   Eating, preferably carbohydrates (and not doing LSD :-) )
>a couple of hours before hand will help.
>

I get headaches, too, especially when I swim for a long stretch of distance
without taking a break (ie, 500+).
What I was wondering is that, if it is simply exercising that gives you
the headaches, how come I don't get the same headaches when I swim 100's,
or jog or play tennis?  Does my body do different things when I swim longer
distances?

-- Peter
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
From: honig@cs.cornell.edu (Sue Utter Honig)
Subject: Re: freestyle breathing
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:50:44 GMT

The discussion on bilateral breathing vs. breathing on the same side
every other stroke has made me wonder:  is there any correlation
between a swimmer's strongest side and the side s/he prefers to breath
on?  Just curious.

Sue Utter Honig
honig@cs.cornell.edu
From: billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Shoulder Problems (LONG)
Date: 21 Aug 1992 00:29:33 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <Bt9F1v.F80@research.canon.oz.au>, jason@research.canon.oz.au (Jason Stummer) writes:
|> Just a note about the very last piece of advice here....high reps (50+) with a light
|> to medium weight will actually build muscular **endurance**, not power as mentioned.
|> If power and strength are the goals then use relatively heavy weights - 90-100% of
|> 1RM (1RM = the heaviest weight you can do a single rep with) and do sets of 1-6 reps.
|> Building bulk is actually best achieved by using medium weights 70-85% of 1RM and
|> doing sets of 8-15reps.
|> 
|> Not really knowing alot about Bursitis, I imagine that the advice was correct
|> however the terminology wrong. Building a good balance of muscles in the shoulder
|> joint sounds like what is necessary and high reps with light weights (endurance) is
|> a reasonable way to go about achieving this. Power, on the other hand is actually
|> a term used to describe the ability of a muscle to achieve maximum contraction in 
|> the shortest time possible.
|> 
|> Don't mean to be picky !!

Don't mean to be either, but I stand by my assertions.  Power=Work/Time (if
I'm remembering Fresh. Physics correctly).  As a weighlifter now (not quite
up to saying bodybuilder), bulk is generally equated with medium-low amount
of reps, high weight, and a high number of sets.  But that's a diferent NG.  
When I was swimming in college, we used a machine to test stroke power.  It
was a measure of your ability to put out force (what I believe you are mixing
up) over time (since distance is set -- pretty much).  All this, however,
is due, I think, to the confusion generated when converting physics terminology
to a physiological platform where the terminology has been so slaughtered by
ignorant and incompetent sportscasters through the years.  I'll meet you
halfway and agree that power is an entirely relative term.  As you unwittingly
show, power and strength can be synonomous, or complementary, thus adding to 
the confusion.  A clydesdale is powerful, Arnold Schwarzenegger is poweful,
but Summer Sanders is also powerful.  (Not to mention real hot...)

-- 
Bill Blackwell             P H P <==me!   "A just request is to be met
billb@owlnet.rice.edu     F L L F       in silence, by the act."
Houston, Texas, USA          8       -Dante Alighieri "Inferno" XXIV ln.77-78
"My opinions are mine, no one else is that stupid"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.swimming