From: Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya)
Subject: Re: Answers and questions about ESTONIA ( wARussian Speakers in Estonia
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:00:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.121618.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>In article <Sorokin.43.726080290@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at>, Sorokin@ps1.iaee.
>tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:
>
>> It is obvious, that in such cases special legislation 
>> must be elaborated, instead of universal one, which is equally applicable 
>> to a russian-spaking person born in Estonia, say, 28 years ago and to a 
>> Nigerian, applying for citizenship in 2012.
>
>
>Here I can't follow your train of thought. Who has elaborated "a universal
>legislation"?
>

Mybe I am wrong, but as far as I understood, the naturalization law in 
Estonia IS UNIVERSAL? I am afraid of being biased, because German and  
Austrian mass-media cover Baltic issue very poor, so most of information for 
me is from Russia.

>
>> Current boycott of naturalization campaign (I remember the figure 5% applied 
>> only, is it correct?) means that r.-speakers think, that they will gain 
>> more by waiting. 
>
>
>This is disinformation: there is no boycott: every one can voluntarily
>apply for Estonian citizenship. Still, I think that the majority of
>non-citizens will be waiting until February to see whether the tables
>will be turned...
>

5% IS BOYCOTT, whether it is explicitly organized, or not. I remember this 
figure from one of Tanel's angry postings here. 

>
>I would like to call them Nevzorovka. They have used violence in
>the Baltic states and supported atrocities. Only NASHI.
>

I do not know, how good you are in Russian, but we used to call him 
Nevrozov, when he was only the TV-star from Leningrad.

> 
>> I could suggest one solution to break this boycott: Appoint a NEW elections 
>> to Riigikogu (and President, maybe). 
>
>
>In 1996, your wish will be fulfilled. There is no boycott to break: the
>non-citizens that will apply for citizenship, will vote in the next
>Riigikogu elections. The others will vote in other elections - Russia
>should have a new congress of people's deputies!
>

1996 is too far. Ordinary people operate with time periods not longer than 1 
year.

>
>> This will also split the russian-speaking community, which now 
>> tends to unite under NASHIs' slogans. 
>
>
>I fail to see this kind of tendency in Estonia. The reactionaries do not
>have a very good reputation. Do you really think they would have a mass
>support nowadays ANYWHERE in imperium? Rutskoi, perhaps, but I suppose
>we could count him out from NASHI.
>

Unfortunately, you underestimate "Soviet mentality" in Russia, as well 
as the influence of mass-media, given the current still very unstable 
freedom of mass-media in Russia. Recent Congress showed it very clearly. To 
add, even 10% of the population of Russia is 5 times the population of 
Estonia. Tragic example is Abkhazia: neither mass nor official support 
exists for the "Congress of mountain peoples of Caucasus" (I do not know 
official translation), still they are capable of conducting war against much 
larger Georgia. 

>
>> Unfortunately, there are no representatives of russian-speaking community on 
>> this group, and we do not know the other point of view. Only official 
>> figures and information are available.
>
>
>Here I agree: it would be interesting and edifying to have at least one
>non-citizen from Estonia here in the net. People tend to speak FOR them.
>As I do as well, unfortunately!
>

What is the situation in the estonian universities, by the way? 

>
>>>> No guarantee is given that 
>>>> whenever political feelings of citizens (or simply power balance in 
>>>> Riigikogu {is it Parliament in english? 
>>>
>>>
>>>It's a parliament, but the old world denotes a "state assembly" or something
>>>like that: it's the Estonian citizens taht have been "gathered together".
>>>
>>>
>>>> My estonian is very poor} ) change, 
>>>> then they'd be subject to much stronger discrimination (which would be also 
>>>> legal, since they are not citizens). 
>>>
>>>
>
>Thank you that you have respected at least some of my answers! But the
>answer above was no demagoguery: I just wanted to emphasize that eternal
>guarantees do not exist. The minorities in Estonia are protected by:
>
>(1) The modern constitution that guarantees the rights of non-citizens
>    which reflects the determined will of Estonian citizens
>
>(2) The minority legislation and laws on cultural autonomy which are
>    partly introduced and will be introduced in Estonia.
>
>(3) The integration of Estonia to Helsinki process (which has taken place,
>    Estonia is a member of CSCE). In previous summer the Helsinki summit 
>    accepted the minority rights regulation.
>
>(4) The integration of Estonia to the Council of Europe - which is
>    the main institution that monitors the democracy in Europe.
>    This will happen in spring 1993, at least I hope so.
>
>What more guarantees do you need? You won't be getting any more...
>

We still seem to misunderstand each other. 

If you are a citizen, then you CAN NOT be legally discriminated (I am not 
going to discuss apartheid or nazism), because any issued law in modern 
democracy by definition applies to all citizens.

Being a non-citizen, you are by definition discriminated, and thus depend 
upon current political situation in Riigikogu or whatever, which you can not 
even influence.

There can be various ways of discrimination. To mention a few, here are the 
examples of Austrian situation ( your paragraphs (1)..(4) apply):
Higher education is free for citizens and (generally) not for non-citizens.
Possibility of state service is very limited.
There are a lot of limitations on land purchase and usage.
The same with owing enterprises, etc.
In certain branches, upper limit on the percentage of non-citizen employee 
exists, which makes it more difficult to get job.
etc., etc., etc. 

All wonderful organizations and forums you mentioned defend only human and 
most basic civil rights of the people. They obviously do not object to the 
cituation above. Still, Austria is very loyal to foreigners. They 
constitute >40% of the population of Vienna, which is the most 
international city in Europe. 

>> 
>> Yes, but what are the "states involved" for a 28-years-old wo(man) (
>> russian, jewish, ukrainian, etc.) born in Estonia (Latvia), having her(his) 
>> home there, etc., etc. no matter what language (s)he masters? I see only 
>> one!
>
>
>The states involved are:
>- Russia (until March just a formality)
>- perhaps Ukraina (I do not know details)
>- Israel (ditto)
>- Latvia (if the residency requirement is met, or, Estonia).
>

Israel is involved for every Jew, but imagine your statement above written 
by a German to back some changes of german law?!? 
It can not matter even a bit, if some other nation is ready to give its 
citizenship! I still stand on the point, that a matured man BORN >18 years 
ago in Estonia can not be viewed as intruder, colonist, whatsoever.

Yours,