HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

tfb@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw) writes:

>Making the chain initially slightly too short will also compensate for
>stretching through wear which is what Jobst is saying the mechanism
>is.  So this says nothing about the plates elongating.

>However it would seem to be sensible to make chains initially slightly
>too short -- that way you keep inside the acceptable roller spacing
>for longer.  I wonder why this isn't done more widely?

I notice in two separate ways that a chain needs replacement.  One is 
that it begins to make a buzzing sound even when the chain is clean
and the derailleur is dialed in perfectly.  This is because the chain
pitch has increased due to wear and no longer perfectly matches the 
cog pitch.  At that point I think the chain is beginning to do harm to
the cogs and to a lesser extent, the chainrings.  If you purposely
put on a chain with too small a pitch you would get the same buzzing
sound, which is annoying to me, anyway.  I don't know if it would do
any harm to the cogs or rings while it is in the 'too short' stage of
its life.

But the other way that I notice the chain wearing is a lack of crispness
and then downright sloppiness in shifting.  A short pitch chain may wear
to the right pitch, but it will also show sideways play and the shifting
will still suffer.

I buy cheap chains and change them a lot, like every 1500-2000 miles.

-Bud
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: neilf@delfin.com (Neil Frank)
Subject: Re: CRANK PULLING PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: Delfin Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:36:29 GMT

josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam) writes:
: 
: >Oh, about that retapping idea--the
: >metal for the threads has been stripped OUT, i.e. it's gone.  Forever.  You
: >could only tap it for a diameter larger than that of a crank puller.
: 
: I used to have a thread chaser for the larger-diameter threads
: you find on the rarely-used side of a Park universal puller.  It
: could cut usable threads in some stripped crank arms.  (Then
: someone would try threading in a standard crank puller and
: destroy these threads, too.)

Then again, you could always worn the next person who tries to pull the
crank off that the threads are of larger than the norm (of course this
assumes that the threads are so bad that a larger pitch thread tap is
required, which may not be the case)....  Also, it depends if you plan to 
use the crank again...  

As in taking the fixed cup off with a vice, it sounds good to me since the 
fixed cup is on the OPPOSITE side of the BB as the chain rings (the side
which was stripped).... Hence, there should be no problem with the crank 
arm hendering placement within the vice grips...

-nlf-
-- 
Neil Frank		Delfin Systems		408-748-1200
neilf@delfin.com	Santa Clara, CA.
--              Wisdom is Gained Through Experience,            -- 
--        Experience is Gained Through Error.... "Unknown"      -- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: 901003l@axe.acadiau.ca (MISHA LEBLANC)
Subject: cranks
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:25:47 GMT

Does anyone know if Redline (Seatle bike supply) might be planning to put 
together a set of cranks like the series 401 flight cranks (BMX).  To 
compeet with Tioga's new ones.  or offer an upgrade conversion for existing 
sets?
Misha LeBlanc
901003l@axe.acadiau.ca
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How to cold-set rear triangle to wider dropout width?
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:16:55 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Dec14.135954.1215@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.055727.2812@news2.cis.umn.edu> frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams) writes:
>> [...]
>>
>>Remember that spreading the rear triangle is not required to use a wider
>>axle, it is just a convienence.  [...]
>
>
>Huh?  It would be more convenient not to bother if it's not necessary.
>
>
>-- 
>Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com

I think he meant that you can spring the dropouts apart every time you
mount a wheel.  The convenience factor comes in because it's a pain to
have to do this every time.  For the effort of having the dropouts set
to the correct width, you can mount the wheel without needing three
hands. 

One more tip for all of you running out to the garage to coldset your
old bikes to 130mm: The way we used to check the straightness of a
frame, back in the old bike shop days, was to tie a piece of string
from one dropout, looped around the headtube, and stretched back to
the other dropout.  Now, by measuring the distance from the stretched
string to the seattube, you can test whether the rear triangle is in
the same plane as the rest of the frame.

An aside to the poster who suggested installing an axle between the
dropouts to attempt to coldset both chainstays at once:  I don't think
this would work.  I think you would find that the chainstays would not
necessarily be the same distance apart after removing the axle.

Jim
From: jskaggs@slate.mines.colorado.edu (JoJo was a man...)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Suspension Debate
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:57:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

In article <1992Dec16.125059.17184@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>
>I wonder if suspension bikes are more prone to stresses as the owners will
>be tempted to take them over much harder ground and will give them more
>abuse ?  Looking through the bike press a lot of the designs seem to be
>badly thought out for the sake of originality, seems like the mug buyer is
>being used to do the testing on a lot of this ironmongery, but I may be wrong.
>
>David.
	I'm not so sure about that.  It seems to me that the reason so many
new suspension bikes have problems when they first hit the market is simply
the fact that suspension frames are so much more complex than a rigid
frame.  Allowing the rear triangle (or whatever other rear-suspension is
around) to move so much introduces a lot of stresses into a suspension
frame.  Complex, hard to predict stresses that a rigid frame never sees.

	I agree with your point that there are a LOT of bad frame designs
out on the market right now.  I think that the builders are in a big rush
to get their bike to market in the hope that, because it looks good, a
whole lotta people will run out and buy one.  Unfortunately, it often does
work that way.  _but_  I think people are beginning t realize that a funky
looking cycle may not ride as well as its looks advertise.  I think that in
a few years, the mrket will stabilize itself.  The good frames will hang
on, and the bad frames will disappear.

-Joe  Skaggs  (jskaggs@slate.mines.colorado.edu)
 

-- 
These opinions belong to me.  Any re-broadcast or re-transmission of these
opinions without the express written consent of the NJF (National Joe
foundation) is a violation of applicable copyright laws.
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:46:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Chain maint. question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

M.J.Davis writes:

> A quick way to tell if your chain is worn out is to try and pull
> it forwards off the chainring. If it clears the teeth, it's
> overdue for replacement. Bear in mind that if you leave it too
> long, it'll eat your freewheel sprockets...

Once again old wive's tales survive.  Whether you can lift the chain
off the chainwheel or not depends on the condition and design of the
chainwheel or it could be the condition of the chain or both.
However, even a new chain on a new sprocket can be raised so the
question remains how high it should rise.  It should be obvious that
this is not a good measure of anything and that the pitch of the
chain is a far better diagnostic since the pitch of a chain is
accurate to great accuracy, in fact less than +- 1/1000 inch per
link.

As is clearly stated in the FAQ and elsewhere, 1% wear is ~1/8 inch
per foot and this is a pretty good absolute "throw it away"
elongation for a chain, while 1/16 is a threshold beyond which rapid
sprocket wear begins.  Use a ruler and measure from the center of
one pin to the center of one ~12 inches away (this can be done on
the bike).  A new chain has a pin at exactly every 1/2 inch.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Do I need to grease after snow?
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:16:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Hi!  Just a quick question:  Pittsburgh just got dumped on with 10 inches of
snow, and I went out last night and rode in it.  It was fun, and my HBL worked
great!  But now I need to know, do I have to regrease the hubs and the BB?
The hubs are Shimano LX, and the BB is Shimano, but not a cartridge.  It just
has those little rubber seals in the cups, which probably don't do much.
The hubs were new back in September, and I probably have less than 200 miles 
on them.  Is it too soon to regrease?  (I hope so, since I don't really have
the time to do this.  I don't like tearing my bikes all apart!!8-))
	How well are LX hubs sealed?

	Thanks!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                                O   
University of Pittsburgh                           _ /__,     
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu          (_) /(_) 
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!           			   "Why am I so late?  It took me 
					    25 minutes to decide which bike
					    to ride!" 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Looking for rechargable battery supplier
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 13:50:54 GMT

>>now, but I need some sources for a rechargable battery.  
>>Anyone have an address or a phone number of a good inexpensive
>>battery supplier? 
>
>Well, a year ago, Comsumer Reports rated the Radio Shack NiCds as the
>best in the size C category.  I do not remember if that was also true
>in the AA and D sizes, but I was looking for size C to put into my 
>Cateye headlight.  I do know that the Radio Shack batteries need to
>use the Radio Shack rechargers, and not a conventional recharger.

This makes no sense, they have similar ratings to other brands, capacity,
charge requirements, etc.  I've used a number of different chargers with
them with no trouble at all.  I've even fast charged them with a charger
meant for fast-charge compatible cells (lots of heat) with no ill effects.

I've got Rat Shack nicads (AA) that are five or more years old, and
with a zillion cycles on them that still perform like new.  Aren't
they supposed to wear out after a while?


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: XTR 8SPD and thumb shifters.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: ICS Department, U.C.I.
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:55:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

In article <1992Dec17.162110.16029@osf.org>, david@postman.gr.osf.org
(David George) wrote:
>
> BTW in the XTR destruction manual it only gives information for set-up with
> rapid fire shifters.

Why are none of us surprised?!!!!  It has long been a sore point with
consumers regarding Shimano's utter disdain for those who would dare
challenge Shimano's engineer's omniscience regarding what parts absolutely
cannot be used with any other parts.

Shimano, the company everybody loves to hate.

  --scott
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Index shifters on bar-ends anyone?
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:17:37 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Hi,  I'm a 'poor student' (sob sob) who only upgrades his bike each December
when his birthday and Xmas come along.  I've just installed new Biopace chain-
rings (no flames please),  chain and cranks and while doing so found the
Suntour Accushift 2000 derailleaur and shifter from an old city bike.

The derailleuar cage isn't as long as some may think,  and weighs much the same
as my very old Shimano 600 friction derailleur, so I've attached the shifter
to the ends of my drops and hey presto,  bar-end index shifting.

Has anyone else done similar?  This sounds 'hodge-podge' but actually works
quite well and is a definite improvement on the last set-up and about $2000
cheaper than STI.

Jonathan.
From: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: TurboCat Mod. to Specialized Light?
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:04:27 GMT
Reply-To: whalen@starch.enet.dec.com (Rich Whalen)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Shrewsbury, MA


In article <724501094snx@bjalon.demon.co.uk>, julian@bjalon.demon.co.uk
("Julian Templeman") writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
|>From: julian@bjalon.demon.co.uk ("Julian Templeman")
|>Subject: TurboCat Mod. to Specialized Light?
|>Organization: Baker Jardine
|>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:18:14 +0000
|>
|>Hi all.... I had a Specialized PreView 2.5 front light; nice light, but I
|>couldn't live with the short battery life. I think they made a mistake
|>trying to run it on AA-size batteries; a triumph of design over
|>functionality. Anyhow, when I complained to Specialized, they told me that 
|>there is an external battery pack available, called the 'TurboCat Mod Kit'.
|>
|>Does anyone have any information about this, like who makes it, how much it
|>costs, and whether it is any good :-)   No-one here in the UK has heard of
|>any such thing....
|>
|>julian
|>
|>

The TurboCat Mod Kit (designed for the Cat Eye HL-500) is manufactured by

The Light Company
2669 Castillo Circl
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360  USA

(805)492-6658

I have no connection with The Light Company, other than being a happy user
of their product.

------------------------------------------------------
Rich Whalen

You don't know where these bits have been!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: CAMPY CRANKS QUESTION;;;;;
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:55:10 GMT

dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:
: 
: I was wondering if it was possible to convert the Campy Record Crankset to
: be compatible (and work real well) with shimano Hyperglide.  I currently
: have a 600 STI grouppo.

What needs conversion?  I am currently using a C-Record crank, Super
Record front derailleur, Ultegra rear derailleur, and Dura-Ace chain
with Ultegra STI shifters.  The only unusual act I had to perform was to
route the front derailleur cable to the "wrong" side of the cable
clamping bolt to change the cable/cage movement ratio slightly.  This
combination works fine for me.  The front shifting works at least as
well as the full Dura-Ace STI setup I had a year ago.

: The reason I am doing this is for the pure
: essence of beauty the Campy Cranks relay to the eyes as well as function.
: Either this or the Dura-Ace.

Note that some people (notably Jobst) have experienced a distressingly
short lifetime for C-Record cranks.  I have not had any problem, but my
next crank will probably be Dura-Ace.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Chain design question (was chain mai
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:31:00 GMT
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v2.0 R/211 [DC3C]
X-Gateway: ZCONNECT UI bi-link.owl.de [RFC/Connect IIIb DOS v0.46]


On 16.12.92, byczko@evax.gdc.com 
wrote about "Chain design question (was chain maint)":

b> 	The motorcycle industry solution to this problem was the "O-ring"
b> chain; a seal that retains lubricant and prevents grit entry to the
b> roller pins.  Has this been explored with bicycle chains?  Would friction
b> be too high? Is it too expensive compared to a $5-10 throw-away 
b> conventional chains? Perhaps someone on the net (Jobst?) has heard of this.


A chain manucaturer tried it. Unfortunately, the chain with O-rings was
to stiff to pass the derailleur without problems.


Ciao
Hajo

--
Hans-Joachim Zierke  ##  Tel.: +49-30 / 394 8445  ##  Fax: +49-30 / 394 8447
                   h.zierke@tbx.berlinet.in-berlin.de 
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: FM Radio
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:15:00 -0500

Dave,

DA>Does anyone ride with a bike-mounted fm radio?

Not that I know of, but I was once in a pace line behind a
tandem which was pulling a trailer with a large ghetto-blaster
loaded thereon.

DA>I feel that a walkman type can be dangerous,...

Against the law in some places, suicidal everywhere!

Tom
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X close call: maintenence dose of parinoia
From: sjang@cs.ubc.ca (Stanley Jang)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Looking for rechargable battery supplier
Date: 17 Dec 1992 14:05:30 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: flip.cs.ubc.ca

mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun )) writes:

>jcollias@src.dec.com (Jim Collias) writes:

>>now, but I need some sources for a rechargable battery.  
>>Anyone have an address or a phone number of a good inexpensive
>>battery supplier? 

>Well, a year ago, Comsumer Reports rated the Radio Shack NiCds as the
>best in the size C category.  I do not remember if that was also true
>in the AA and D sizes, but I was looking for size C to put into my 
>Cateye headlight.  I do know that the Radio Shack batteries need to
>use the Radio Shack rechargers, and not a conventional recharger.
>Don't remember the exact reason (and I'm an EE now hanging my head
>in shame ;-), though.  This was mentioned in the Consumer Reports
>as a "minus", but it didn't matter to me since I didn't already have
>a recharger anyway!

Perhaps the Radio Shack C cells are of a higher capacity than standard nicad
C cells so that it'll take longer with a standard charger.

I use a variety of nicad battery packs built from 600mAh AA cells, 1.3Ah
sub-C cells, 2.2Ah C cells and 4.4Ah D cells.  I bought the batteries in
Vancouver (actually a suburb), Canada from the distributer Excell Battery
Corp (604) 538-2777 or fax (604) 538-2977.

They sell nicads from a variety of manufacturers (mine are Sanyo and Panasonic)
but also sell lead-acid batteries.  I can email a price list to those who
are interested.  Their prices are much lower than anywhere else in town and
in some cases, are lower than US mail order places such as Mr. Nicad.
Remember, we're talking Canadian dollars, so that's another 20% off.

As an example:
600mAh AA - $1.65
1.3Ah subC- $3.10
2.2Ah C   - $5.05
However, they have a minimum order of $200 Can, so you may need to find
some friends.  One final problem with building your own rechargeable batteries
is that you may need a non-standard charger.  I've built a constant current
charger to charge my batteries at an appropriate current.

Stan Jang <sjang@cs.ubc.ca>
From: aviechec@dante.nmsu.edu (Alex Viechec)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Rapidfire shifters
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:21:35 GMT
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM


I have been using RF for two years, most of that heavy use and racing.  I 
personnally love rapidfire, but that's just my personal preference.  Why should
anybody care what type of shifters someone else uses, as long as they're
satisfied?  Anyway, even if your RF shifters break, you don't have to walk
home.  You can easily dial any gear you want into your derailleur by 
adjusting the limit screws.  It may not be the best gear for all the terrain
you may encounter on the way home, but it sure as hell beats walking.



Al the Pal
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: differences in rear hub lengths?
Keywords: lengths, rear hubs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.150610.17106@b15.ingr.com> dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com writes:
>Howdy All,
>
>I have a 1972 Raleigh Super Course which I bought new and have recently
>purchased new wheels/hubs from Nashbar to replace the originals.  The
>front wheel/hub went on swimmingly, but the rear hub was too long for
>the rear forks.  I had to forcibly push the rear forks apart to slide
>the rear wheel/hub on.  When I was shopping for new wheels/hubs, I
>took great pains to determine whether there were different hub lengths
>on the market (i.e. whether you fit the hub to the bike frame).  This
>does not seem to be the case.  Hubs appear to come in a "standard"
>length.  What am I missing here?  Surely one shouldn't have to force
>his/her rear forks apart to slide on a new hub/wheelset?  What should
>I do???
>
>Thanks for any help!
>-- 
>*******************************************************************************
>
>Doug Roberts                             E-mail: dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com
>Senior System Engineer
>Federal Systems Division                 Phone: 205-730-1760
>Intergraph Corporation
>Mail Stop IW1510                         FAX: 205-730-6956
>Huntsville, AL  35894-0001
>
>*******************************************************************************

Rear hubs definitely do come in different widths.  I believe old 5-speed 
(which is surely what your '72 bike has) was 120 mm.  6/7 speed (what the
width of your new rear hub probably is) is 125 mm, and 8 speed is 130 mm.
I see two options:  If everything works fine (it's just hard to get the wheel
in), you can just leave everything as is.  Or you can spread the rear triangle
5 mm to adjust for the new hub width.  In the second case I think about
80 of the last 100 posts on this board deal with this very subject...

Bill


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech