From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: some gods are _not_ creaters of all things, apparently
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:52:55 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

><adams.712206042@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) said:
>>In my humble opinion, a woman 'creates' nothing.  God creates.  Sure, there
>>is a certain biological/physiological happenstance.  But since I believe
>>that the soul enters the body at conception, that life is only for God to
>>take, if He so choses.  But you miss my point, too.  I am pro-choice.  I
>>object to abortion on religious grounds, yet refuse to impose my religion
>>on anyone else.  I encourage other Christians to adopt the same view, as it
>>is perfectly scriptural.

>I appreciate your tolerance wrt abortion and your religious views.  I'm
>wondering though, if your god is truly omniscient then he would surely
>know which women are going to abort their fetuses and not put a soul there
>(since he's in charge of soul installations).  The fact that he allows
>conception to take place in a woman who he _konws_ will abort tells me
>that he approves of abortion.  I assume you agree that any being so
>powerful would be able to prevent fetuses from being placed in
>inappropriate wombs.
God does know what is going to happen, but he does not preordain it.  The
point is that God allows humans great freedom in what we do, and will call
us to account for our actions at the time of judgement.  It may very well
be that God will not look harshly on us, no matter what we have done.  Who
is, and who isn't given salvation is not up to us, it's up to God.  I don't
propse to deny salvation to anyone, no matter what...

>Actually, he could have this fetus's soul earmarked for death, and have
>selected the woman to be the instrument of that death.  He's done similar
>things in the past.  Who are we to object to god's great plan.
True enough...

>>>As for inconsistency, many Christians believe that the bible implicitly
>>>prohibits abortion, while at the same time it glorifies their god's
>>>killing of thousands or millions of children.  He even *orders* his people
>>>to kill children *explicitly*.
>>Yes, it does, and He does.  I won't at all object to that.  But I am not
>>God.  I do not have the power God has.  
>Ah, we're back to "if you have the power to do something then your actions
>are just".
If and only if you are God!

>>                                        God has chosen to revel Himself to
>>us in various ways, and has established rules for His people to live by.

>Which apparently do not apply to him.
Correct.

>>God has no requirement to fit in a box that you or I create for Him.

>No, but we require it of him.  Any god that I might worship would have to
>make logical sense.  So far I have seen little in any religion.
Well, that's certainly your free choice, and you have made it.  I won't get
in your way, other than to discuss points like this on the net...

>>>Do you worship a mass-killer just because he has the power to kill you
>>>too?
>>Heck no.  I worship God because I believe in Him, and the salvation from
>>Him through Jesus Christ.  

>I asked this because early on you state that your god can do anything he
>wants to because he has the power to do so.  It sounds like you worship
>him, even though he kills children, because you have no power to stop
>him.  Do you not find a contradiction between this "salvation" and the
>deaths of millions of children?
Nope.  God has his plans...who am I to judge Him?

>>                           Whether or not you believe is between you and
>>God.  I don't force you to believe, nor will I force my views on others. 
>>God appears to want it this way...according to Scripture.

>I tend to agree with your mindset.  I really wish more people thought
>along these lines.

Me too....thanx for the compliment...;-)

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religioon.misc