HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pack@acd.acd.ucar.edu (Daniel Packman)
Subject: Re: Desperate times (was: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy")
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:14:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.201303.13399@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>Service sector jobs need not be considered menial, and if you think that
>working on an assembly line (i.e. manufacturing job) is not menial, you're
>crazy.
>
>The switch away from a manuafcturing economy is not a bad thing. This switch
>started in the late 50's, and the standard of living for Americans has gone 
>well up since then, both in terms of material wealth and opportunities for
>personal advancement and freedom of lifestyle. I suggest you read Toffler's
>"The Third Wave" for a discussion in depth on this transition, which has 
>affected every facet of life (some positivly, some negitively).
>

Perhaps "menial" is not the correct term.  The service sector jobs
I am thinking of typically require few prerequisites and command a low
hourly rate.  The manufacturing jobs I am thinking of typically require
a few more prerequisites, but command a much better wage.  I am concerned
that there will be increased polarization in the work force between the
lower-paying jobs requiring little education and the higher-paying jobs
requiring extensive education.


--
Dan Packman     NCAR                             INTERNET: pack@ncar.UCAR.EDU
(303) 497-1427  P.O. Box 3000
                Boulder, CO  80307-3000      DECNET  SPAN: 9583::PACK
From: kreme@isis.cs.du.edu (Dave Sim's Ugly Brother)
Newsgroups: nyx.misc,co.general
Subject: Re: Denver Area BBSList & News Now Available
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:43:46 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.

mbarry@isis.cs.du.edu (Marshall Barry) writes:


>	The Denver Area BBSList[tm] and News, Electronic Edition, is
>	now available on Nyx via the "i"nformation menu, "db" submenu.

And where is it for the rest of the users?

Please take the time to post the path for files.  Telling us where it is
in the menus is no help at all.

--
   | kreme@isis.cs.du.edu | The Coven BBS [303/777-2911] 1st METAL in MST |
   | kreme@#22 (FV3 Net)  | MST3K, Spacer Quest 3.4w, Anime files, & More |
   | [303/722-2009] Voice |    "Unity Sleeps" -- Neil Gaiman, Sandman     |
   |      USR HST/V.32bis, 100 Megs, All code in RAM, Super Fast          |
Newsgroups: co.general
From: vicki@steam.atd.ucar.edu (Vicki Holzhauer)
Subject: Re: U S WEST voice mail
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: co
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:37:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.183052.14321@csn.org> dcm@csn.org (David C. Menges) writes:
>I cannot recommend U S WEST voice mail service.

Interesting.  I've subscribed to it ever since US West first offered
it and have been extremely happy with it.  I had been going through
about one answering machine a year.  (Whether cheap or expensive, they
don't seem to last long.)  I think $6.95/month is a small price to pay
for not having to worry that technology will let you down when you
really need to get a message ...





--
Vicki Holzhauer, NCAR/Research Aviation Facility 
Internet: vicki@ncar.ucar.edu
"I say, beware of all enterprises that require new 
clothes ... "                   -- H. D. Thoreau
Newsgroups: co.general
From: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Perot and "electronic democracy" (was Re: Can we contact...)
Reply-To: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Organization: NCAR/CGD/CSCO2 (don't ask!)
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:50:32 GMT

> Dave Hughes

> [W]e have a Presidential Candidate - Perot - who beleives in Electronic
> Democracy, and fully intends to use it if/when elected. [...]  I am so
> supporting of him, I have put up a seperate 'Back Room of Rogers Bar' BBS
> totally dedicated to the support of his bid. Its fast, slick, as easy for
> the public to use as any BBS made (TBBS). 719-632-3391 for now.

  Should you look into his views a little more before you support him so 
  wholeheartedly? His appreciation of electronic democracy is a Good Thing,
  but I believe Perot is not worthy of being President, and some of his ideas
  are pretty scary. Sure, he's different, sure, he's a straight shooter, but
  what I've read doesn't lead me to support him.
-- 
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: co.general
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy"
Reply-To: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Organization: Rarely 
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:11:49 GMT


> York Davis

> I keep seeing the same cynicism about Perot as with the current "career" 
> politicians and I don't understand.  

  Because you're not old enough.

> The cynicism is caused by career politicians who forget their campaign 
> promises as soon as the votes are counted.  However, Perot, to my knowledge,
> has never run for an office before and as such can not be judged on his
> campaign promises yet.

  No, but his record as CEO of EDS can be examined. That should be sufficient
  to form an opinion.

> I say, let him run. Hell, encourage him to run!  Anything to get politicians
> thinking about bringing about solutions instead of more problems.  

  There are better ways than having Perot state *his* beliefs and *his* solu-
  tions.

> Since Perot found a way to build his personal fortune by solving problems 
> and now he appears willing to help solve some of this country's political 
> problems, why not let him run.  If he gets elected and in four years he 
> isn't any better than the last several Presidents, we can vote for someone
> else.  At least he is willing to consider running.

  I don't consider Perot's bid to be a favor he's doing us. That's the way
  he's presenting himself, as the self-sacrificing fellow who's willing to
  do all the hard work, if we would only *trust* him. That kind of person
  can be the most dangerous sort. Perot is in the race for power, plain and
  simple.

> If we are going to whine about everyone who is willing to run then the only
> option left is to draft someone.  I don't know of anyone personally that I'd
> try to draft at the moment, so encourage Perot to run.  Find out what he is
> about.  

  I have, and it isn't pretty. There are several sites with ftp-able Perot
  statements (such as they are) to examine.

> November is still a long time away and you don't have to vote for him then if
> you don't want to.  This is still America.

  What if, by some fluke, he wins? I guess we "losers" just gotta grin-n-bear
  it, eh?

> Just my thoughts on a whining thread.

  I'm not whining, I'm trying to overcome this giddy fascination with Perot
  that too many people have. He's presenting himself as a savior, and I find
  that approach suspicious, at least.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: co.general
From: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy" (was Re: Can we contact...)
Reply-To: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Organization: NCAR/CGD/CSCO2 (don't ask!)
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:17:12 GMT

>  Laszlo Nemeth
>> Gary Strand

>> [Perot] has indicated a willingness to violate the Constitution in order
>> to do what *he* believes needs to be done, and that's unacceptable behavior
>> from a President. Indeed, it's illegal and impeachable behavior. 
>> I suspect we'll more about Perot's positions soon. Hopefully people will 
>> decide to vote for who's *good* rather than who's merely *different*.

> bush & reagan didn't?

  Bush and Reagan didn't *what*? Believe it or not, this country's problems
  started before 20 January 1980. R&B aren't blameless, by any means, but
  the President isn't a dictator; there are 535 Congresspeople and thousands
  of judges who are as responsible as R&B.
-- 
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: co.general
From: daveh@teal.csn.org (Dave Hughes)
Subject: PUC Briefing on ISDN
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 04:59:33 GMT


Gary Nakarado, one of the three Colorado Public Utility Commission (PUC)
Commissioners asked me to publicize 'on the nets' the fact that the
PUC is holding a meeting 8:30-12:00 at the PUC, 1580 Logan Street,
Denver,  Thursday, April 23d called 'Digital for the Rest of Us'

At this meeting - billed by him as to 'inform' the Commission -
an array of speakers and panelists, starting with Mitch Kapor 
(yeah, Lotus founder) and Jerry Berman, counsel both representing
the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) will explore the feasibility'
of making 'personal' ISDN (rates and rules) the Digital connections
for 'the rest of us'.

You may or may not know that Kapor has been championing the idea
and testifying to Congress on it, that ISDN, properly priced,
could become the main means for the general public to have voice
and data that last mile from the phone company to the home, office,
school, or small business. I agree, and will attend on Gary's 
invitation (I also will probably represnet the Telecommunications
Policy Advisory Committee to the Colorado Springs City Council,
the first municipality in 14 US West states to deploy ISDN for
its city government)

US West will speak - on its Omaha experiment. Bob Cruickshank of
Cyberlynx, Allison Lash, consultant. And a panel of those
representing consumer, independent business, retired, education
will held forth.

I'll be the guy with a Stetson, a notebook computer, a Qblazer
and maybe a packet radio to give the world a blow by blow :-)

Dave Hughes
Old Colorado City Communications
daveh@csn.org     dave%oldcolo@can.org
:wq
.:w
From: bdahlen@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Robert L. Dahlen - U. of Denver USA=)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy" (was Re: Can we contact...)
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:16:45 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: University of Denver

In article <1992Apr6.231300.21149@ncar.ucar.edu> strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>> Tom Parker
>> Why do you "believe Perot is not worthy of being President"?
>
>  I suspect we'll more about Perot's positions soon. Hopefully people will 
>  decide to vote for who's *good* rather than who's merely *different*.
>Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
>strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF

If there were a "*good*" candidate, Perot wouldn't have to be involved.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Dahlen - Director, Information Systems & Technology
University of Denver - Denver, Colorado 80208 (303) 871-4385
INTERNET:bdahlen@du.edu                      BITNET:bdahlen@ducair 
Newsgroups: co.general
From: pack@acd.acd.ucar.edu (Daniel Packman)
Subject: Desperate times (was: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy")
Summary: We are that desparate
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:05:43 GMT

Gary Strand asked, somewhat rhetorically, if we are so desperate that we
need H. Ross Perot for president.  Somewhat cynically, I would say that
for the larger questions, it probably doesn't matter who wins.  Perhaps the
most damaging long term problem in our country is the change in demographics
of jobs (less manufacturing and blue collor, more menial service jobs).  This
change is almost an inevitible result of technological progress and is made
worse by a painful equalization of the global economy.  Unfortunately, I
think there are limited options available to the President, whoever that
may be.

That said, there are a number of strikingly important things the President
can do.  Among them are pursuing a sensible energy and environmental
policy.  I urge all those who see only ounces of difference in the
Presidential nominees to weigh more carefully.  Such seemingly small
differences are differences indeed.  Desperation isn't the issue.  Just
vote for the best candidate.  Please.

--
Dan Packman     NCAR                             INTERNET: pack@ncar.UCAR.EDU
(303) 497-1427  P.O. Box 3000
                Boulder, CO  80307-3000      DECNET  SPAN: 9583::PACK
Newsgroups: co.general
From: pack@acd.acd.ucar.edu (Daniel Packman)
Subject: Re: Desperate times (was: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy")
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Distribution: co
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:39:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.142926.5672@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>>
>>Perhaps "menial" is not the correct term.  The service sector jobs
>>I am thinking of typically require few prerequisites and command a low
>>hourly rate.  The manufacturing jobs I am thinking of typically require
>>a few more prerequisites, but command a much better wage...
>>
>
>Yes, but could that be because those manufacturing jobs had artificially
>high wages (due to unions)? And that this has not happened in the service
>sector? Indeed, it could be argued that this is one of the main reasons
>for the migration of these jobs to other countries.

One factor for higher wage manufacturing jobs here migrating to lower ones
in other countries is the painful equalization of the global economy.  How
artificial these wages are (were) will clearly become moot at the economies
of the world interact more and more.  This process is ongoing and will take
many years.

The other factor is the change in the type of jobs within manufacturing.
With greater use of robots, you need to employ fewer assembly line workers
and more robotics experts.  The ultimate dilemma comes when five true
expert humans are needed to run the global economy and all other humans
are out of a job.  It is argueable if less jobs in total will be needed
as the process continues, but it is clear that the types of jobs that
are available will drastically change.


--
Dan Packman     NCAR                             INTERNET: pack@ncar.UCAR.EDU
(303) 497-1427  P.O. Box 3000
                Boulder, CO  80307-3000      DECNET  SPAN: 9583::PACK
Newsgroups: co.general
From: tparker@ncar.ucar.edu ()
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy" (was Re: Can we contact...)
Reply-To: tparker@ncar.ucar.edu ()
Organization: Nat'l Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR); Boulder, CO
Distribution: co
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:34:17 GMT

Gary,

Why do you "believe Perot is not worthy of being President"?

-- Tom
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Parker             |  National Center for Atmospheric Research |
| tparker@ncar.ucar.edu  |  (303) 497-1227                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: co.general
From: gary@isis.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Gary Strand's net-posting (pre-)occupation
Reply-To: strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Organization: NCAR/CGD/CSCO2 (don't ask!)
Distribution: co
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:58:19 GMT

> Rick Speer

> Where does Gary NRA Strand get the time for all his postings about Perot?

  The same place as Rick Speer does.

> Does the fact that he works for the government have anything to do with it?

  I don't work for the government.
-- 
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: co.general
From: tparker@music.scd.ucar.edu (Tom Parker)
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy" (and co.politics)
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: co
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:35:13 GMT

Here are a couple more upcoming Perot appearances on TV:

   Thursday, April 16:  Larry King Live

   Sunday,   April 26:  Face the Nation


(By the way, you can get this info by calling 1-800-685-7777 and
selecting option "2")
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tom Parker             |  National Center for Atmospheric Research |
| tparker@ncar.ucar.edu  |  (303) 497-1227                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: co.general
From: tarrall@horton.Colorado.EDU (The Admiral, actually)
Subject: Re: U S WEST voice mail
Organization: _USS Christopher Pike_, NCC-1779-A
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 07:27:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.183737.8980@ncar.ucar.edu> vicki@steam.atd.ucar.edu (Vicki Holzhauer) writes:
|In article <1992Apr9.183052.14321@csn.org> dcm@csn.org (David C. Menges) writes:
|>I cannot recommend U S WEST voice mail service.
|
|Interesting.  I've subscribed to it ever since US West first offered
|it and have been extremely happy with it.  I had been going through
|about one answering machine a year.  (Whether cheap or expensive, they
|don't seem to last long.)  I think $6.95/month is a small price to pay
|for not having to worry that technology will let you down when you
|really need to get a message ...

I'm with Vicki on this one.  I've been using the US West system since
October and have thus far had no problems.  It's been much more convenient
than the old answering machines, and I too was going through an answering
machine every year (or less).

On the other hand, it's certainly possible that people have had problems.
That's the problem with "public utilities."  (I've had my own share of
troubles with Public Service in the past, but I also know many people
who have had none.)
-- 
-- The Admiral          Email address:  tarrall@horton.colorado.edu
---------------------------- ghewmey Daghaj SoH ---------------------------
|  What I want to see in the paper:  "Rockies sign Puckett and Sandberg"  |
|  --------------------> HOW ABOUT THOSE TWINS???? <--------------------  |
Newsgroups: co.general
From: qiao@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Carol Q. Tong)
Subject: Computer Science graduate looking for a summer job
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:59:58 GMT
Distribution: co
Reply-To: qiao@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Carol Q. Tong)
Organization: Colorado State U. Center for Computer Assisted Engineering.
Keywords: summer job, C, C++, database

I am posting this for a friend -- you can contact me 
by sending email to me or calling me at the following #. 

		   		------	Carol Tong
					EE Dept.
					Colorado State Univ.
					Fort Collins, CO 80523
					(303) 491-6567

*****************************************************************

I am looking for a summer job starting in June in Colorado, 
preferably in the Fort Collins area.  I major in Computer 
Science and am graduating from Purdue this summer. I am going 
to Stanford Univ. for my Master degree this fall. 

I am experienced in programming with C, C++, Smalltalk, and many 
other languages. I have done research in the area of database, 
especially the interface part. 

I can provide further information if you are interested, including 
my resume, transcript and research reports. 

Please contact Dr. Carol Tong if you have further questions. 
Thank you. 


****************************************************************



Newsgroups: co.general
From: davisy@CS.ColoState.EDU (<y>ork)
Subject: Re: Perot and "electronic democracy"
Summary: Why Not?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 22:42:02 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

I keep seeing the same cynicism about Perot as with the current "career" 
politicians and I don't understand.  

The cynicism is caused by career politicians who forget their campaign 
promises as soon as the votes are counted.  However, Perot, to my knowledge,
has never run for an office before and as such can not be judged on his
campaign promises yet.

I say, let him run. Hell, encourage him to run!  Anything to get politicians
thinking about bringing about solutions instead of more problems.  

Since Perot found a way to build his personal fortune by solving problems and
now he appears willing to help solve some of this country's political problems,
why not let him run.  If he gets elected and in four years he isn't any better
than the last several Presidents, we can vote for someone else.  At least he
is willing to consider running.  

If we are going to whine about everyone who is willing to run then the only
option left is to draft someone.  I don't know of anyone personally that I'd
try to draft at the moment, so encourage Perot to run.  Find out what he is
about.  

November is still a long time away and you don't have to vote for him then if
you don't want to.  This is still America.

Just my thoughts on a whining thread.

York
 __________________________________________________________________________
/                                           |                              \
| York Davis                                |                    /         |
| Colorado State CS Student                 |     \             / /        |
| PO Box 603                                |      \\\' ,      / //        |
| Fort Collins, CO                          |       \\\//,   _/ //,        |
| 80522-0603                                |        \_-//' /  //<,        |
|                                           |          \ ///  <//`         |
| CSUUX - davisy@cs.colostate.edu           |           /  >>  \\\`__/_    |
|                                           |          /,)-^>> _\` \\\     |
|-------------------------------------------|          (/   \\ //\\        |
| To air is human, To flip divine           |              // _//\\\\      |
| Team Stupid Suicide Squad Ski Team        | _  _  _  _  ((` ((  _    _   |
| Rocky Mountain Skiing Is The Best         |/ \/ \/ \/ \/\------/ \/\/ \  |
\___________________________________________|______________________________/
Newsgroups: co.general
From: daveh@teal.csn.org (Dave Hughes)
Subject: Campaign '92 Newsgroup?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: co
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:44:04 GMT


Last night, late, we achieved linking our Perot for President
TBBS BBS (which is not Fdio-compliant, but can be taught, like
a dog, new tricks) to our own 1/128/67 Gold Mill Fido system.
Not polished, but messages flowed. And will soon be sharing
messages, e-mail, and files with ease with any of the 13,000
Fidos in the world.

And since our Gold Mill Fido, via ufgate/fredgate can link
to our Old Colo City Unix system, to its newsgroups, to
its own (AKCS) conferencing-for-end-users software, and
thence to any Internet/Bitnet/Usenet newsgroup, then
we have the essential ability to link local Perot Fidos
with the rest of the country at any e-mail, newsgroup-echo
level for peanuts of cost, free to the local public.

So question. Since any campaign supporters Dem, Repub,
Libertarian, or Perot, could do the same - what would
co.general think if old Dave menges of csn set up a
co.politics newsgroup? To both hold the pro-con Perot
discussion now dominating co.general, and to broaden
the discussion out of this cloistered group?

Newsgroups: co.general