HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: rust proofing
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:57:36 EST
Reply-To: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


in: Message-ID: <1992Apr11.222109.345#geovision.gvc.com>
    barry@geovision.gvc.com (Barry Comer) writes:

BC>Which is the best rust proofing to get?  Good question 8-).

BC>I was thinking of getting Rust Check.  They charge about $100.00 per year
BC>and offer a lifetime warr.  The only problem I have with this is that they
BC>drill holes in the car to get behind the pillers(makes sense I guess).

BC>What experience have you folks had with rust proofing?

There's no easy answer, but if you MUST get additional rustproofing
on a NEW car keep in mind that using an OIL based product may
invaidate the factory warranty if the car has factory WAX based
rustproofing (and I'm pretty sure that most new cars come with
wax-based rustproofing.)

Personally, I think that I'd get Rustcheck or smilar if I bought a
mint, older car, but would skip on additional rustproofing on most
new cars.

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.tech
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen)
Subject: BF Goodrich Touring T/A- Opinions Sought
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:05:15 GMT

I've found a good deal on BF Goodrich Touring T/A's.  Does anyone have any info
on these tires?  How well do they handle, how long do they last, how good are
they in inclement weather, and how quiet are they?  Feel free to email me at
peterco@eff.org if you prefer.

- Peter
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: floyd@eng.umd.edu (Mike Hughes)
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:26:52 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <5342@nosc.NOSC.MIL> koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz) writes:

>Here's a 'better' experiment -- descend a grade and switch ignition off,
>observe rate of descent with throttle closed and then repeat with throttle
>open...  You *will* find that engine-braking *vanishes* or decreases
>*significantly* with throttle open vs closed...
>
>I say this is better because it addresses the point in question -- cranking has
>little to do with running as far as  operating conditions in the cylinders that
>affect crank-rotation are concerned...

	I have been silently following this thread, waiting until I had the 
opportunity to do the above experiment.  This morning, I tried it.  NOT to my
suprise, the ONLY difference I noticed was audible.  The test car was an EFI
2.8L inline 6-cyl.  I believe engine braking to be due to 1) Compression  
2) Ring friction 3) Vacuum.  (Maybe 2,1,3?)  I took some vacuum readings while
conducting this test.  The difference in braking with 26" Hg and 0" Hg (closed
and open throttle) was *NONEXISTANT*.  How about changing your theories?

	In case anyone is interested, here's some mathematical info to play 
with.

Bore:	8.6cm
Stroke:	7.9cm

((8.6/2)^2*pi)*7.9===>	458.9cc displacement per cylinder


Let X=Volume of combustion chamber...

(458.5)+X    8.3
---------  = --- 
   X          1
              ^
               ---Compression Ratio

Solve for X and find that the combustion chamber is 62.8cc.

Thus volume at BDC in one cylinder is 521.3cc, and volume at TDC is 62.8cc.

	Now, plug in my data and see how many Newtons it takes to compress an
air/fuel mixture that is at 26in Hg, and how many it takes at 0in Hg.

	I guess you'd do the opposite to find out how many Newtons it takes to
pull the piston down with 26 & 0in Hg.  (closed & open throttle).  Unfortun-
atly, I don't have the knowledge to figure these numbers out my self.  I tried,
but needed the pressures in the cylinders in Absolute Pressure instead of in. 
Hg.  I know that: P2/P1 = V1/V2 ---Where P=Pressure & V=Volume.

	Any help in solving this is most appreciated...-Mike

:Suicidal Tendencies=====> He's a carrier of death a stork in reverse,        :
: =8^) Mike Hughes  =8^( : he blesses you with sickness cause love is a curse.:
:Mail---floyd@eng.umd.edu: The arsenic in your Koolaid, the bomb in your mail,:
:Voice--(301) 340-0922   : he disappears in motion but leaves a bloody trail. :
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Fabulous New RX7
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:11:06 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1992Apr07.225838.2841@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (Brutus Thornapple) writes:
|> 
|> What really impressed me with the new RX-7 is that Mazda went to such
|> great lengths to keep the weight down and at the same time managed to
|> avoid using expensive aluminium.  The fact that it costs half of an
|> NSX makes it even more impressive, and its styling is also far more
|> beautiful than the NSX IMO.  The final question is how nimble it will
|> be compared to the mid engined NSX.  The 300ZX may offer performance
|> numbers that are similar, but it is at least 5 to 600 pounds heavier.
|> 
|> If there is a number in cars that really tells a lot, it is number of
|> pounds.  There's only that much fat tires and cubic inches can do to
|> compensate for weight.  A light car that will do 0-60 in 6 seconds and
|> 1g on the skidpad would feel totally different from a heavy car that
|> will do 0-60 in 6 seconds and 1g on the skidpad.  Kudos to Mazda.

I think the Miata's light weight is much is the reason why it feels so nice to
drive.  It is not fast but it really has a good feel to it when driving.



-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
the hapa haole
(or more precisely the hakka haole)
(or even more precisely, the hapa hakka hapa haole, or h^4)
Organization: Freshman, Design, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 11:04:49 -0400 
From: Alan Edward Petrillo <ap2z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: American engines oversized,underpowered ?

 >This from the country that brought you the Jag 6 banger.  It is
 >quite a bit HEAVIER than the average american V-8....but of
 >course what do facts have to do with British beliefs?

>Well, if we want to sell them to YOU, perhaps.  But if we are
 >designing them for ourselves, frankly I doubt your personal
 > preferences...coming from an entirely different driving
 >environment are of much interest.

 >Interest.  You don't want answers or facts.  And your knowledge
 >of the American engines is so woefully inaccurate that I am
 >surprised you can even spell the word.

    Is it me or is this tone inappropriate for one of the more
interesting threads we've had in a while?  We shouldn't spend too much
time arguing about etiquette, but this little attack is the sort of
thing that would keep people with unusual perspectives from posting here
at all.  If Adrian's points are of little interest why have so many
people responded? By the way, I drive a 7.2 litre saloon :) myself, so
my comments should not be construed as "taking sides" - I ask only for a
kinder, gentler bboard.
  

Alan Petrillo              "Petrillo is the kind of guy I can do business 
Carnegie Mellon             with" - Pat Buchanan
  
                           "Like, if I was Petrillo, I'd follow my karma and
                            leave Pittsburgh, school, and my body. Pass the 
                            tofu." - Jerry Brown          
REAL cars have:
vent windows
side air vents down by your feet
the high beam switch on the floor (the way nature intended)
rear-passenger side windows that roll all the way down
doors that unlock with the ignition key
an engine with over 340 lb.-ft. of torque
available "optional" power steering; powerful enough to let you parallel
park with two fingers
(Thanks to Rick Inzero, but might I add...)
auto shifter on the column (or push-buttons)
gas filler behind the license plate
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: CRX [was: Re: Future Honda Accords]
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:46:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: eff.1992Apr8.194630.23989
     <1992Apr7.232126.10011@qualcomm.com>
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2

In article  Robert Neff, neff@diva.Berkeley.EDU writes:

>These teardrop shaped, bulging headlight style, with a low hood 
>in between.  Where did it really come from?  It is on all the new 
>Mazdas (MX3 especially), though I have not noticed it as much 
>on the Lexus.  I thought it was first on the Viper prototypes, 
>and then on the Mazdas, and now Hondas?  Is that the right 
>order of appearance?

No, it's not on the RX-7 or the 929...the RX-7 has a unique shape,
especially with headlights up (much better than the previous style, which
looked too much like a Porsche 924/944 for my blood).  The 929 has a
fairly graceful, stately appearance, sort of like a baby Park Avenue.

The Lexus SC400 and LS(ES?)300(350?) have that teardrop effect...the
latter looks a lot like a Citroen, actually...the LS 400 still looks like
a Mercedes.

On a related note, an AutoWeek editorial recently wondered whether or not
one Toyota designer was doing the body design for all Japanese
manufacturers...after seeing the Pontiac Bonneville SSEi, I've got to
wonder if that designer hasn't been hired by GM, too...

- Peter
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rudloff@cetus.Colorado.EDU (IRAF users)
Subject: Re: Auto Leasing !!???
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:51:15 GMT

 I just started a lease on a new car.  The lease is through Ford
 Motor Credit, and its their "Program" Lease.  It lasts two years
 and at the end of the lease you have the option to buy the car 
 outright, dump it and leave, or trade it in on something new.
 On the tradein option, if you can get the car appraised at higher 
 than the "guaranteed value" (the inflated value that ford puts on
 the car at the end of two years) than you get the difference    
 towards a new car.

 The reason I went with it, is because I'm young, in the midst of
 heading out into the "real world", getting married in a year, and
 I wanted a turbo sports car (Ford Probe).  I have heard that 
 turbo's deteriorate quickly, so the option of turning it in after
 two years of young-male-hot-rodding driving seems to be a pretty
 good option.  Plus, I had considered lump-sum paying off the car
 in two years anyway, and the way the lease is set up, its cheaper
 (payments are lower too) to pay off the lease than it would be
 to pay off the loan after two years -- unless you can get a really
 sweet car loan.  If you are in an independent business it also has
 tax benefits.

 The bad things are limited mileage (15,000 / year) and you must keep
 full coverage insurance on the car -- but you have to do that anyay 
 on a financed car.  Then too, usually the "guaranteed value" Ford 
 or any other dealer-leasing company puts on the car, is way inflated.
 I sincerely doubt the value of the car I'm driving will be 51% of 
 original value (MSRP).  Two years seems pretty short too, three years
 might be better. 

 But hell I'm happy and having a good time.  So there it is.

 Robert
 <----all standard disclaimer apply---->
From: liu7@server.uwindsor.ca (LIU  JOSEPH XUEFENG      )
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: How to remove a cracked windshield from the car?
Keywords: Hints wanted!
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:59:56 GMT


	I have a cracked windshield on my '82 Nissan Stanza, I bought a used one from a wrecker and was going to replace the bad one by myself. 

	But I encountered a big problem immediately: I can't get the old windshield down? Those rubber is to hard to be cut off.

	HOW TO GET THE DAMN WINDSHIELD OFF?!

	Is there anyone has experience on this?

-- 
Regards,

Joe

Organization: Junior, Social & Decision Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:30:55 -0400 
From: Sam Hui <sh50+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Are all Americans stupid

Dear Mr. Kohli,

What the hell has :
1) Status
2) The Falklands
3) Ass Kicking
4) Rock & Roll
5) The Prime Minister of England
6) Bibs
7) Accents
8) The Queen
9) Chiropractors
10) Satellites
11) EuroCurrency
12) Voltage
13) Global Warming

..... got to do with cars and driving ????? 

If you have a problem with English people, may I suggest that you post
your *flames* on netnews.british.soc instead of wasting nice bytes on
this BB.

-Sam

************************** A reminder of Mr. Kohli's Posting :**************
>	Hey! Look whose calling names
 
>	Aren't you from the same set 
 
>	*) Who are falling behind in status, and ranked below Italy too [No 
	   offense to Italians]. So how come the smart jerks that u think u 
	   r couldn't keep the economy up. If u do SPEED, as u claim, why
	   don't u paddle ur teeny cars faster and catch up.
 
	*) Who were "LandLords" and are now left only with the "Lords"
	   What ever happened to all the "Land" (it's even questionable
	   if you retain possession of the Falklands).
 
	*) Who are getting kicked from every other country. Soon it will be
	   every country
 
	*) Who stole rock'n roll from us?
 
	*) whose prime minister kisses our presidents ass 
 
	*) Who splat over your shirt when u eat... Thus the need for a
	   bib
 
	*) Who speak with their jaw locked. "Tsh! Tsh!.. Please pass me the
	   the tea"
 
	*) Who will need a lot of chiropractic treatment... After all the
	   bending for the Queen. I wonder who she bends for - these days
 
	*) Who needed the satellite info to fight Argentina.. Fight ur
	   own wars dude!
 
	*) Who charge their own citizens 3 times as much for gas and other
	   appliances as we YANKS do?
 
	*) Who have a problem saying "Schedule" .. It is "sched-ule"
 
	*) Who have trouble giving licenses to all the citizens. What's
	   the big thing about passing driving test. Is it the scumbags
	   pedestrians or the degrading brains of the Brits that u r
	   worried about
 
	*) Who can't agree upon the common currency for Europe. What is
	   with your pound? Did it pound ur brain!

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mpb@troy.uucp (27331-bunz)
Subject: Re: Caprice vs. Dodge Grand Caravan
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:02:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.195432.19047@icf.hrb.com>, jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik) writes:
> Recently, my friend and I were returning from lunch when we both saw an
> interesting comparison.  Has anyone seen a late model Caprice parked
> next to a late model Dodge Grand Caravan?  Not only is the Caprice wider,
> but it appears to be over a foot longer and is not much shorter.
> 
> I guess I didn't realize how completely HUGE this car actually is.

No, you just didn't realize how well the Caravan uses what space it
takes up!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Potential
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:16:58 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation


|> >In article <1992Mar31.194617.18367@qualcomm.com> ganapath@tahoe.qualcomm.com (Chinnappa Ganapathy) writes:
|> >>
|> >>Okay, so how many of you who think that it's stupid to buy a car and not
|> >>use it to it's full potential,
|> >>
|> >>1. Have used their vehicle(s) to it's potential?

How about buying an F350 Crew Cab and routinely putting 6 full size adults in the cab
for a trip?  or hooking up my 11,000 lb fifth wheel for a vacation outing?  Or getting
15 mpg while pulling aforementioned trailer on the interstate?  Show me a foreign
vehicle that can match all those items!

|> >>
|> >>2. Use all their possesions to their full potential?
|> >>

Why buy something that you can't use to its full potential?  It's better to have more
potential than you need than not enough.  There will be times when the extra bit may
save your life.
	

-- 
Alan Hepburn           "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
National Semiconductor       a little temporary safety deserve neither
Santa Clara, Ca              liberty nor safety."
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Benjamin Franklin
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Are all Americans Stupid???
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:01:51 GMT
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2

In article  Lon Stowell, lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com writes:

>   But you must admit that Texans tend to be more properly
>   disrespectful of politicians and bureaucrats in general
>   than some of the sheeplike 55 mentality types you hear bleating
>   all the time....

I admit that we New Englanders have a longstanding reputation for hiring
only the most corrupt of our citizens as public officials, but at least
we knew a loser when we saw one (the second time around, that is): Mike
Dukakis refused to raise the speed limit on our interstates.  Our "new"
governor (not so new anymore), William Weld, finally did put the 65 mph
regulation into effect.

I like Bill Weld, even if he did get a 20K tax return this year.

- Peter
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Peter A. Cohen <peterco@eff.org>
Subject: Re: <<< Mustang Powered Miata >>>
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1992 17:34:36 GMT



In article  P. J. Remner, aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:

>THAT IS 2 "l"s!!! What, you want Caroll to have ANOTHER heart transplant?

I could be wrong, but I think it's Carroll Shelby.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Subject: Re: Women & Cars (Was: Re: Should I buy an Eclipse?)
Reply-To: kevin@taronga.taronga.com (Kevin Brown)
Organization: Minimal.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:44:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.131551.14089@b11.ingr.com> lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com writes:
>In article <BM1wz3.Jpy@world.std.com>, kenny@world.std.com (Kenneth R Crudup) writes:
>|> In article <CARL.92Apr1112937@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM
>|> (Carl Heinzl) says:
>|> >WOW!  I disagree with this 100%.  I cannot always anticipate what my
>|> >future needs will be and for me to buy something that is more than
>|> >what I need right now is not waste.  It would be more wasteful for me
>|> >to have to buy something and buy it again in 6 months because I
>|> >outgrew it.
>|> 
>|> I  included an "out" for such conditions- "...or more than you can under-
>|> stand to need..." which is just saying getting something way over your head.
>|> There's nothing wrong with planning for the future, but don't get a
>|> HiFi stereo VCR if you're only ever going to watch it on a 19" B&W set.
>|> (Don't laugh, I've seen it happen twice).
>
>Maybe the person with the VCR was going to buy a good TV next year when
>they have saved enough money to pay for it.  Now, would it make sense to
>buy a cheapo VCR to use for a year and then buy both the TV and VCR two
>years from now (when you could have had both after a year)?  The cheapo
>VCR is an unnecessary expense given the long range plans.
>
>The extrapolation to buying cars, etc. is left as an exercise for the
>reader.

Hmm...you mean like buying a 300ZX twin turbo because you plan on buying
a top-notch radar detector in the future?  :-)

> - Les


		Kevin Brown (kevin@taronga.taronga.com)
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Are all Americans Stupid???
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:05:59 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr16.150253.24183@gdr.bath.ac.uk> bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
>My general view of speed limits is that on a decent road they should
>be high enough so that natural selection can take it's course.
>Within a few generations the worst drivers would be bred out of the 
>gene pool.  This might be helped by allowing people to drive from the 
>age of 10, and by increasing the age of consent for sex to about 21 :)
>
   You must be a Brock Yates fan.  Some years back he proposed a
   safe driving program.  

   Make the steering column of every car a 12 guage shotgun
   barrel...loaded.  

   Add a crash sensor.  If the car hits ANYTHING for ANY reason,
   fire the shotgun shell....removing one more incompetent driver
   from the gene pool.

   His theory was that this would also have the side benefit of
   consumers DEMANDING the cornering and braking capabilities of
   a Lotus combined with the accelleration of a fuelie dragster.


>In residential areas, I am all in favour of low speed limits so long 
>as they don't stop people from concentrating on their driving.
>
   Most people drive MUCH too fast in residential areas, but it is
   hard to get decent compliance if you set the speeds too low.
   Most are a compromise between the safe speed and the one that
   people will honor.


As far as the age of consent.....there is a folklore tale about the
state of New Mexico.  Waaaay back a few years ago, some do-gooder
attempted to introduce a bill to raise the age of legal (sexual)
consent from 16 (or 14?) up to 18.  During the debate on raising the
age of consent, an elder statesman arose and suggested:

   I propose instead of raising the age of consent to 18, we raise
   it further to 21 and make it MANDATORY!.

They were totally unable to bring the item up for discussion again
without being disabled by laughter.  
[And if you give me a moment, I'll try to figure out what the heck
this has to do with autos....]
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: spark plugs
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:37:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Apr9.213700.26429
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


bosch platinum=great and relatively inexpensive($1.68 each)
buy them with no reservations.
-king bob
Xref: sparky rec.autos:11399 seattle.general:846 pnw.general:617
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,seattle.general,pnw.general
Subject: Re: JEFF JACOBSEN / PEUGEOT OWNER
Keywords: Peugeot 504
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:51:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: Celestia.1992Apr14.215139.13085
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA

In <70978@bcsaic.UUCP> rhorwell@bcsaic.UUCP (Roland Faragher-Horwell) writes:

:Sorry for the noise everyone - Jeff Jacobsen, please send me a US mail
:address or phone number where you can be reached.  Your net address is 
:inaccessible to me.

He probably has a French modem :-).

>Thanks

>Roland 
>Northwest Citroen Owners' Club

I think your car looks funny too!

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?