HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:06:49 GMT

What he said--in spades!

In article <1992Dec10.185429.8115@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
> [a whole bunch of stuff that should be saved and re-read regularly,
> especially:]
>
> Whether or not you or others like it homosexuality exists, is not a
> psychiatric illness, and does not impair the ability of a person to
> lead a productive, rich, and rewarding life. I specifically don't say
> that it is 'good' or 'bad'. I don't believe that homosexuality, like
> being athletic, like being solitary, like being aggressive, is good or
> bad in itself. It is what comes out of how a person leads their life
> which makes them good or bad. A star quarterback can beat his wife. A
> solitary woman discovers a cure for AIDS. An aggressive businessman
> alienates his family. A gay doctor works to fight malaria in Burkina
> Faso.
> 
> Homophobia is an irrational, categoric fear of homosexual people or
> behaviors. When someone fears that exposure to the idea that two adult
> women can live together with a child as a family will cause their
> daughter to 'become' lesbian, it is homophobic because it
> categorically fears lesbianism - that lesbianism is 'bad' (I would
> fear more categorically 'heterosexuality' because that at least
> threatens teenage pregnancy). It is irrational because as I said,
> lesbianism is not a psychiatric illness, nor does it impair the
> ability of a person to lead a productive, rich, and rewarding life.
> It is irrational in addition because it denies the possibility that
> the daughter may, indeed, be a lesbian and that the exposure to the
> idea will have no consequence for her sexual life. Thirdly, it falls
> prey to the previous problem of intentionally keeping the child
> ignorant of the existence of this thing which exists, 'lesbianism',
> and which describes women who are perfectly capable of living a
> socially responsible, rich, productive, and rewarding life. This
> ignorance can only create a fear of the unknown when a confrontation
> with it occurs, perpetuating homophobia, in those who are not lesbian
> or don't recognize their nature as being lesbian, and in those who are
> lesbian, the ignorance creates an angst of loneliness until contact or
> recognition occurs. These are only a few of the problems.
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:01:15 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec14.211317.24072@draco.macsch.com> Bryan J. Blumberg <bjb@macsch.com> writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.113431.14141@hemlock.cray.com> Russ Anderson,
>rja@mahogany126.cray.com writes:
>>> Dose anyone else have any info on Mrs. Shalala's sexual orientation?
>>

There are quite a few rumors going about Mrs. Shalala and her being outted by
Miriam Ben Shalom.  I spoke with Miriam last night at a Pride Committee
meeting <12-15-92> and asked her about this.  

She reported that all of her sources point to Mrs. Shalala being a lesbian.

Personally, I think it'd be great if she would come out publically, but the
decision still has to be hers <Shalala's>.  So until that time, I'm treating
this as a good, but unconfirmed rumor.

Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Genetic Homosexuality?
Organization: Jews for Melkor
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:56:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.180919.2651@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec10.221933.29489@penet.fi> an2335@anon.penet.fi writes:
>> >
>> >  We know that homosexual people have less children than heteros.
>> >Then, if homosexuality is genetic, we should expect the proportion of
>> >homosexual people decrease generation by generation. This hasn't been
>> >observed. Can we then deduce that homosexuality isn't necessarily
>> >genetic?
>
>  I don't think you even need to go to this extent. What this sort
>of discussion shows is a profound lack of knowledge about the way
>that genetics works. I saw a *real* biologist's (or at least somebody
>who knew their stuff) explanation of this the other day on the net.
>What he showed is that given recessive genes which produce 100% 
>infertility it would take on the order of 1000 generations to 
>successfully remove the gene from the gene pool. 
>  This of course is based on *many* assumptions, like homosexuals
>have *no* children, there is only one gene etc, etc. All of which
>will, no doubt, conspire to propagate a "genetic" origin of 
>homosexuality in perpetuity.

This also assumes that the gene has only one effect, namely to
cause infertility. Many genes have several different phenotypic
effects. For example:

>  This is the reason why genetic diseases like Tay Sacs, Sickle Cell,
>Down's Syndrome etc, are still around though they clearly have very
>deleterious effects.

The sickle-cell gene is not entirely harmful. It is a recessive
gene which causes sickle-cell anemia; it is *also* a dominant
gene which confers resistance to malaria. This means the gene is
selected for in areas were malaria is a big danger. (Note that
the gene is most common among people of African ancestry.) 

This is probably the case with a "gayness" gene, if such there
be. Probably any genetic basis for homosexuality is a subtle one,
involving many genes; as I see it, what was selected for was an
elaborate mechanism of sexuality which has a few bugs in it but
is still superior to any alternative which has yet arisen.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"We all have faults, and mine is being wicked."
                --- The Duke of Coffin Castle
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: Bert and Ernie
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:35:34 GMT

In article <71812@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Ken Dykes writes:
>>>It's all very simple once you understand string theory.
>>i'm a frayed knot...
>
>Oh, so *THAT'S* where all that fuzz comes from!!!
>
>[Grinning, Ducking & Running]

why run after getting a duck?

and running...
 if your nose runs and your feet smell,
   you were born upside down!

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca   postmaster@thinkage.com   thinkage!kgdykes
         harley-request@thinkage.on.ca             kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Subject: Re: An Apology
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:26:56 GMT

In article <GANDALF.92Dec11171637@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu> gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
>Oh, please. I think we all need to lighten up a bit. 
>How are we supposed to express anger?
>"That extremely unpleasant person, Lou Sheldon, makes me very very 
>perturbed." Right. It really sounds angry.


You might consider aquiring a vocabulary. They are very useful in cases
like these, where you want to express yourself.

"That Hateful Zealot! Deranged Psychopath! Lou Sheldon ENRAGES me!"

etc, ad nauseum.... but do as you will....
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Seasons Greetings
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 08:39:07 GMT


I'm logging off now until Jan 3 or 4.  Have a great holiday season.  
And a happy new year.

--scoT

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: [FORWARD]:  HOMOSEXUALITY VIA KIN SELECTION ?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:01:42 GMT

In article <12DEC199215034607@cc.utah.edu> beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER) writes:
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>THIS MESSAGE IS FORWARDED FROM A USER NOT DIRECTLY ON THIS NETWORK...
>
>PLEASE USE SPECIAL ADDRESSES LISTED AT THE END OF THIS REQUEST...
>
>LASTLY, PLEASE POST THIS MESSAGE TO OTHER NETWORKS/FORUMS...  THANX
>_____________________________________________________________________

Hmmm.  This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list.  I think you should take
responsibility for forwarding any posted replies, since you posted the
articles.  (And there's a precedent for that - people who post for someone
who wishes to remain anonymous usually volunteer to collect and forward any
responses.) 


>I'm writing a biologogical paper on a rather recent theory stating
>that homosexuality could plausible be have evolved via kin selection.

It's not that new.  Sounds similar to the altruism theories of the
sociobiologists back in the early 1970's. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Shyster (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs))
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:47:19 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

 >[]
 >I was taught that "shyster" did, in fact, originate in
 >Shylock.

I never heard that, and it wasn't a term that my parents ever
objected to.  (They were fairly sensitive about anti-semitic
slurs, as a rule.)

My Webster's Ninth New Collegiate says that it's derived from the
name "Schuster."  They don't mention association with Shylock at 
all.  The compact OED says the origins are obscure, speculating
on an archaic meaning of the word "shy" as disreputible (which 
they acknowledge is not a US meaning).  The earliest citation was
from 1857 in Knickerbocker magazine.  I don't know whether there
were a lot of Jewish lawyers at that time or not.




-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: Bert and Ernie
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:44:55 EST

>My friend the animator tells me that the reason that for the longest
>time there were only five episodes of Ren and Stimpy being shown
>was not only that the guy responsible had spent all the advances on
>controlled substances, but also that a few of the episodes were
>just too gross to be shown on TV. 

Yes on two, phfft on one. The reason Ren and Stimpy has so few episodes is
because the main brain behind all of it (John(?) last-name-starts-with-a-K
-but-I-can't-spell-or-pronounce-it-correctly-so-forget-it) was such a
perfectionist that the initial time estimates for delivering the first
thirteen episodes were a complete pipe dream. This is probably the big reason
that Nickelodeon pulled the series out from under him (a less-than-intelligent
move, IMO, since it's very much his creation; also because the entire Ren and
Stimpy staff quit in protest), although the grossness factor probably had
something to do with it as well. (If you pay close attention to the episodes
(and have seen them more than once), you can often see where possibly
offending scenes have been edited out.)

A non-gross Ren and Stimpy would hardly be worth bothering with.
From: kenr@cabezon.uucp (Ken Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Legos
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:46:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cabezon.1992Dec14.224630.21012
Organization: Logic Modeling Corporation of Beaverton Oregon

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:



>And for those of you who might not have been at the con:  Ken is one
>of the cutest 28 year-old engineer-geek Lego-queens that you are likely
>to meet. 

Mark, this is shameless flattery. I LOVE it!


>If only he flew stunt kites as well.  The way he drives that
>sports car comes close to qualifying as a kite, but not quite.

I don't drive my car, it drives me. I'm just along for the ride.


Ken


-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
   Ken Richards        |                | It's tragic that families can be 
 Logic Modeling Corp   |  kenr@lmc.com  | torn apart by something as simple
                       |                | as wild dogs.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Indications of homosexuality (was Re: How to tell if your son is gay)
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:30:02 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <15DEC92.18493744@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>Oops!  I'm only skimming since I got back and almost missed this one.
>Rest assured that Steve could come touch my hair with no problems.
>He's already *seen* just about all of it.

(!!)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.215513.21001@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>At Reed, one rule of events for students is that if they are to be
>successful, free food must be served.

God, that sounds familiar.

>For queer men, I like the idea of quiche with lots of sundried
>tomatoes, fresh linguine in a light cream sauce, and an airy, witty
>desert such as a light pastry.

Marry me?  (Sorry, Robert.  We can share ...)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: H.I.M. Catalog
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:47:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec14.104726.21260
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec12.020426.29072@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec10.124403.45547@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 2ftrlegend@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>|>
>|>OK, a serious (well, kinda serious) question I have about the H.I.M.
>|>catalog and some of the stuff in there.
>|>
>|>Anyway, my question is, what use would someone have for a piece of
>|>clothing like the "Sling Shot" (on page 31)?  Is there anyone out
>|>there that can think of an occasion or an outing when such a piece
>|>of clothing would be appropriate or handy?
>|>
>
>Any Probe or Saint party.

My goodness. I think the cryonics people should start investigating
crystal for use as a preservative. If the Probe is still around, it
must have remarkable anti-aging properties.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: ObMotss:  Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 00:44:44 GMT

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I just have to know.  

What is ObMotss?  

I sort of get the gist (motss--relevance), but what exactly does it
stand for?  

Thanks,
--scoT
(who thinks the tired line "There are no stupid questions" is
certainly not true.)

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Date: 17 Dec 1992 11:10:19 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec17.094029.18465@reed.edu> 
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

> You're still the mostest, Arne.

Ditto, dollface.

Arne (I do try to please, but I've been *so* cranky lately.  I'll
anticipate your question: yes, I remember that I owe you -- and
about a jillion other people -- a letter.  I'll work on it.)

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:10:13 GMT

A postscript to my earlier followup:

For years, though less often recently than in the 70s, some feminists
have been trying to disavow lesbians, because "it's not really our
struggle" and "the fundamentalists are always claiming that we're all
lesbians, this will just give them more ammo."  It was bullshit then,
and it's bullshit now.  And the gay community trying to disavow the
transgender community is just more of the same old bull.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: ADAMKD@ids.net
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: How about Gay Bars in North Carolina?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 08:21:13 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Ok, how about some cool gay bars in North Carolina that are off I-95?
Anybody know of any?

			-Adam
From: kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: What wonderful folks you all are
Followup-To: soc.motss
Date: 14 Dec 1992 11:30:34 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak43.doc.ic.ac.uk


I want to say a big thank you to all the people who
posted me such a wonderful array of hugs, in all shapes
and sizes, in response to my recent hug request.  And I'll
stretch these electronic arms around the world and give back
a big warm squeeze to you all.  Ta much.

Kenny


        ################################################################
        ##  Kenny Campbell         ______     If at first you don't   ##
        ##  Imperial College       \    /     succeed, failure might  ##
        ##  London                  \  /      be your style.          ##
        ##  kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk         \/                 Quentin Crisp ##
        ################################################################
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hair Today Re: Indications of homosexuality...
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:27:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec14.102728.20167
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec11.184313.2486@bradley.bradley.edu> larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton) writes:
>In <Bz3q5s.8Cp@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>>joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>>>As to getting hair in one's mouth at awkward moments, modesty
>>>prohibits me from speaking further.
>>With all due warm feelings, on this forum, that seems like a first for you.
>>									FJ!!
>
>   And I don't think FJ is talking about getting hair in one's mouth. =)

I've finally come to the conclusion that many of my jokes are too
textual. The previous one had to do with a coordination between
"speaking with one's mouth full", and "bragging". It had virtually
nothing to do with being modest about fellation, or ass-licking,
which, if you knew the asses presented to me, would be clear grounds
for hair-in-mouth sufferance: big juicy asscheeks covered with crispy
red-blond fur, thickening and getting faintly darker and more scented
as it plunges over the muscular, almost squared-off expanses of the
callypygean boundaries into the hot, sweat-soaked inferno of the
cracks of doom; thick, clean, yet with a faint tang of the
unexpected. I read it and it is plain as day. I guess I need
to post my version of Jabberjocky to explain my 'slithy' signoff.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge)
Subject: Re: King James Version
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:26:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.172553.3098@draco.macsch.com> Bryan J. Blumberg <bjb@macsch.com> writes:
>I was at a S.Q.U.I.S.H.* meeting a couple of weeks ago, and one
>King James Version
>
>1.  LEVITICUS 18:22
>
>     "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:  it is
>abomination."
>

Or, as the Revised Standard Version has it:  

	"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
	abomination".

This sort of thing always appeals to people  who like using proof-texts.

Placing my tongue FIRMLY in cheek:

Well, I  think Leviticus 18:22 is the best proof-text I've ever come
across for lesbian sex.  I mean,  read it!  All lesbians are being told
here that they  should NOT have sex with males the same way they lie
with women.  Works for me.

I have a degree in theology, I can say these things

Chris, MDiv   [yes, three years out of my life to become divine...]
-- 
Chris Ambidge / ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu / ambidge@ecf.utoronto.ca  
   chemical engineering / university of toronto
   200 college st / toronto ON / M5S 1A4 // 416 978 3106
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tom Snyder (Re: More on Roseanne & Cast)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 13:01:24 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec18.121028.19937@spdcc.com> 
joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

> Does anyone remember the Tom Snyder show in the '70s?

<Raises hand>

> Talking about
> 'gay' on TV reminded me of this 70's oddity. It was really
> unpredictable, and usually ran at 1am. I remember once Paul Williams
> followed by Johnny Rotten (Williams grabbed the camera and said "the
> guy after me is reeeealy weiiiird", which, if you know how williams
> comes across, is the height of irony). 

Tom Snyder's show (called "Tomorrow", since it came after
"Tonight" and before "Today") was incredibly strange, even
for a 1970s TV show.  And whatever happened to Paul Williams?  
He was ubiquitous in the 1970s, but I haven't heard about him 
in ages.

> Th highlight of one show was
> the episode where Snyder went into a gay disco full of half-dressed
> clones covered in sweat and talked about his 'feelings'. Very good
> stuff for a 14-year-old fag in backwoods Tennessee to watch.

I remember a show he did once on groupies.  One of the
groupies, a screaming queen named Chuckie who I knew
slightly, seemed to freak Snyder out almost as much as 
he intrigued him.  Chuckie claimed that Snyder came on
to him, but then Chuckie claimed that *everyone* came
on to him.

Arne