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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:51:29 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Ashberry poem
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Hi -- I saw this in a recent _NY Review of Books_.  It's only rarely
that a poem which is so abstract makes such an impression on me.  I
get the feeling that a lot is going on at a level just beyond my
rational understanding.                         --Tom


          AS OFT IT CHANCETH

   You had but to look at a mound or nut
   after the invention of perspective for it to become a rut.
   Everybody was seeing and doing it.
   That is why some few choose disorder
   as scenery befitting the positive melancholy of their stance,
   which means to get things done in a climate of awkwardness.
   The perfidious sky tore past them,
   its ribbons streaming revolt, and soon,
   not right away, it would be time to go down to the street
   to inhabit that walking shell of you
   that by this time is all either of us knows of the other,
   but it _is_ something.

   _Pick up your room_.
   Yon visitor is coming up the walk,
   the door-chime sounds. Now if only in a second I could invent
   the leagues of prosperous businessmen I mean to have commerce with;
     but no,
   it is allegory still. The house on the hill,
   the bramble bush, the neighbor, disappearing
   along that appropriate perspective.
   You believed it if it was convenient; otherwise
   you may have believed it anyway, and it was all
   shaken out, like clothes.

   But in the room the guardians of same will have it
   their way. And though this will never cause the temperature to
     change,
   there are still others filling up the anteroom
   with the breath of fog, with wishes not voiced
   for a while, until it becomes obnoxious and incinerating not to
   have them, in their way, as they crest down
   on us. Anybody could've thought it up, but, funny,
   no one ever did until that elaborate hour
   wherein we go on seeing, and our order is taken.

                                 --John Ashberry


-------
Tom Frenkel,    Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center,
161 Ft. Washington Ave.,  DAP-1310,  New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
<<< Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer >>>
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:42:40 -0400
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: poetry/fiction

        Frank:  looks like your posting got cut off somehow after a couple
of screens.  An extremely interesting explanation - and making a lot of
sense - up to the cut-off point.  Can you re-post? (I hope you weren't
typing and making it up as you go - there's a lot to re-post if so and I'll
understand if you prefer not to.)  I think I have a couple of questions,
but I'll wait and see if the rest of the letter answers them.
        Ian
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Organization: University of Antwerp - UFSIA - Computing Center
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:54:38 SET
Comments:     Resent-From: <NETNEWS@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE>
Comments:     Originally-From: <PS890866@BANUFS11.BITNET>
From:         NETNEWS@RKC.UFSIA.AC.BE
Subject:      Re: New Yorker

Could a benevolent reader of the New Yorker send me some old copies?
They're not for sale in Belgium.  I read an article about Tina Brown in a
dutch weekly (HP/De Tijd -the best weekly there is in Holland) and I don't real
ly understand the fuzz.  I've studied journalism in Brussels and I think rather
 that most American don't like all those Englishmen working in the publishing b
usiness.  Sullivan, Brown...

Thanks in advance.
Lode Goukens
Nachtegaalstraat 26
B2060 Antwerp
Belgium
tel 32 3 2268900
email ps890866 at Fpsw.ufsia.ac.be
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:03:30 CST
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From:         Melanie Willis <GS0383%SPRINGB.bitnet@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Byatt babble, becoming boring, n this, people

I most definitely agree with mbmcdonald.  Has anybody read _The Heart is a Lone
ly Hunter_ ?                  Melanie
From: v384rv4k@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Lynn Harper)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: I'm confused
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

timmie and Melanie,

I've become confused.  I was quite intriqued by the
description about the story that one of you thought
was shocking (about nostalgia, etc.), but in all the
confusion about the authors, I don't know which or

what book you were talking about.  Could one of you
please set me straight?  I want to read it.

Lynn
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:18:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Beginning Faulkner

I would second Tom's recommendation of *As I Lay Dying*; it's Faulkner at
his most Faulkneresque, in some ways, but is surely more immediately
accessible than *The Sound and the Fury*, which I tend to think of as a
noble failure, although the Benjy section is probably the best thing tht
Faulkner ever did, in my opinion.

michael bmcd
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:50:40 CDT
From:         RBLEILER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU
Subject:      Still active?

  I haven't received anything recently.  Is the group still active?
Or (more likely) have the programmers and their infernal upgrades
somehow cancelled my membership?

  Richard Bleiler
  RBleiler@prime.mhsl.uab.edu
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:14:00 EDT
From:         Jennifer A Richards <JARICH@UNC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Carson McCullers (was boring -)

Whoever posted about -A good man is hard to find-  got the wrong
author - Flannery O'Connor wrote that.
-Jennifer R.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:18:25 EDT
From:         jcs <GE777009@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Beginning Faulkner

>
>>              Are there any present newcomers to Faulkner out there
>> who could make suggestions about what it is like to read Faulkner
>> for the first time?  Or any others who remember being in that
>> situation?
>
>Many years ago, I was steered to Faulkner by an enthusiast, and urged
>to read _As I Lay Dying_ as the first.  I think it may be one of the
>easiest to read; and though its plot line is on the morbid side
>(appropriate for "elders"?), its humor does something to atone for
>that.
>                                                    --Tom
           I read "the sound and the fury" first. and after my
           grew back in, i tried "as i lay dying" and had less
           of a problem. I was able to go back to "s&f" and appreciate
           it.  I would also recommend some short fiction.
           How about "a rose for emily"? always a pleaser, that one.
           I know there are other faulkner stories, but i am
           suffering from a severe case of puddingheadedness, and
           will have to consult my bookshelves when i go home for
           lunch.


                                      _JCS_
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:18:09 EST
From:         DZL <livewell@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Re[2]: Graham Greene, modern poetry
Comments: To: VIAEM105@SIVM.BITNET, LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          How did people react when you read "Howl?"  Were you ever
          allowed on public transportation again?
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:21:23 CDT
From:         RBLEILER@PRIME.MHSL.UAB.EDU

  I think the debate over whether knowing about a person's love life
helps one appreciate (or better understand) that person's art and
achievements would be better if it was realized that Newton appears
to have had absolutely no love life.  From all accounts, he poured
his creative energies into his mathematics and writings, not other
people.
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:41:20 EDT
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From:         "Lana Brown, VIARC, IRD" <VIAEM105@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Carson McCullers (was boring -)

From:    Lana Brown, VIARC, IRD

If we don't come up with some O'Connor titles soon, I'll look in a book of her
stories tonight and post them tomorrow. I love her fiction. It has a kind of
gut-level resonance. I think her portrayals of children and the way they
handle crises are the products of genius. In particular, I am thinking of a
story about a little boy, about 5 or 6, who stays with a born-again Christian
babysitter for a day when his young, social butterfly parents are too hung
over to care for him. He watches a country preacher baptizing people in a
river. The story examines what goes on in this poor child's head as the words
of the preacher sink in. In the end, the boy goes to the river when no one is
around & tries to achieve what it was the preacher described--by plunging
under the water until the river drowns him.
    Also, I remember some really interesting characters in other stories who
were adolescent girls. O'Connor seems to be able to make the most of the
exaggerated emotions and cut-to-the-bone thought patterns of kids in adult worl
ds.  Sometimes they remind me of the little boy in "The Rocking Horse Winner" b
y Maugham.
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:18:14 EDT
From:         Jackie Vanwilligen <JVANW01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Babble about Byatt's book.

maybe just motivation? Maybe just curiosity about the wonders of the world? ;)
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 11:25:35 -0400
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Byatt babble, becoming boring, n this, people

>  One way we can judge the importance of Ash is by the resources
>and lives mustered to study him and keep him alive for posterity.
>That's an obvious measure.

Why is it obvious?  Why should someone's importance depend on the judge-
ment of posterity?
        I think you and I are defining "importance" differently.  I don't
mean that Ash was inportant in the sense of changing the world.  If anything
I mean the opposite: that someone can be worthy of attention even if he or
she hasn't changed the world.  Perhaps I should use the word "relevance". . .
I also should point out that I am refering to Ash's relevance TO US, rather
than to the scholars in the book.

                        >What is not obvious, however, is what
>those people see in Ash that makes him worth spending all that
>time and money studying in minute detail.  What do the scholars
>hope to gain?

Here I agree with you.  In that sense, Ash may well be trivial.  However,
there is something charming (bad word but I can't think of a better one)
about such an obsessive fascination with trivia.  Considering my life, I'm
hardly one to judge them.

>  I would have been inclined to phrase your statement the opposite
>way - just because someone's work is interesting, it doesn't mean
>that his/her life is worth scrutinizing in painful detail.

Agreed.

> What does dead Randolph Henry Ash have to offer the world that
>a billion other living folks don't have?  (Besides, perhaps, closure.)

Nothing.  I think this is my point (and maybe Byatt's).  Being common
doesn't mean being trivial.  One could reach as many insights into human
nature by studying Ash's tailor as by studying Wellington or Shakespeare.
(As opposed to studying Shakespeare's poetry, or Wellington's tactics.)

> I have much less difficulty recognizing the value of studying his
>second rate poetry than studying his rather ordinary life...collecting
>his signet ring, his walking stick, his pocket watch...fragments of
>drafts of personal correspondence...walking the same paths he did....

Again I agree.  Don't confuse my argument with the scholars'.  . . . I
can't help but think about Michael Jackson endorsing Pepsi (or Coke or
whatever he endorses.)  Why should being a musical genius (if you're will-
ing to concedeIthat) give him any extra insight into soft drink flavour?

-Ian
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:18:00 EDT
From:         TURZYNSKI@ZODIAC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Beginning Faulkner

I have taught Faulkner, and I found that *As I Lay Dying* was a good one
with which to start, mainly, I think, because it's fairly easy to get a
handle on.  Some sections may be puzzling, but the majority aren't, and
there aren't pages and pages of dense Faulknerian prose to scare off
newcomers.                                  Linda
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:17:00 EST
From:         Mia T <MKISSIL@DREW.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Carson McCullers (was boring -)

                                        Date:     13-Sep-1992 06:07pm EST
                                        From:     Kissil, Mia T
                                                  MKISSIL
                                        Dept:
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-8209

TO:  _IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"         ( _IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"@MRGATE@
   GAMMA )


Subject: RE: Carson McCullers (was boring -)

Ian:

I am not familiar with the O'Connor story about the gorilla suit, but it
sounds typical.  I find O'Connor's stories gripping in a morbid sort of
way.  You have to keep reading, even though you know you are probably going
to hate what happens.  An example is "Good Country People," in which a
woman who is physically crippled is cruelly taken advantage of by a young
con man who is posing as a Bible salesman.  The other one I'm thinking of
(and which I'm too lazy to go look up the title for) is about a little girl
who engages in a battle of wills with her grandfather over a piece of land
and in the end he accidentally strangles her.  I mean, is this positive?
All this aside, I do enjoy O'Connor's stories, when I am in the right frame
of mind.  I heard an actress (I forgot who) read "Everything that Rises
Must Converge" on a radio program once and for the first time saw the
story's humorous parts.

Enuf chat for now.

Mia (MKISSIL@DREW)
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:56:29 PDT
From:         Tim Bowden <tcbowden@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Carson McCullers (was boring -)
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

UP> Whoever posted about -A good man is hard to find-  got the
UP> wrong author - Flannery O'Connor wrote that.


 [S]he holds my follies hostage.
                -from _Ulysses_

-Tim (not Tom)

--- Echodor 3.11
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
UUCP: uunet!{comix|cruzio|scruz|gorn}!clovis!tcbowden
INTERNET: tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us
NERDNOSH LIST: nerdnosh-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
POETRY WORKSHOP LIST: poet-request@scruz.ucsc.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpwin-l
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:51:27 -0600
From:         "JEROME E. COFFEY" <uenjc%msu.dnet@TERRA.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Reverse print macro?

>Subj:	Reverse print macro?

>I use wpwin with an HP Deskjet which drops printed pages into it's out-hopper
>printed-side-up.  On multi-page documents, the first page will be on the
>bottom of the pile.  Does anyone know of a macro that will print a multi-page
>macro in reverse order - i.e. last page first?

>David Paredes d0p4857@tamsun.tamu.edu


--
>David Paredes
>Dept of Psychology/Texas A&M University/College Station 77843-4235
>d0p4857@tamsun.tamu.edu                      d0p4857@128.194.15.32
This macro work fine for me on my Deskjet 500:

     File             ALTP.WPM

     Description      Reverse Printing


     {DISPLAY OFF}
     {Home}{Home}{Down}
     {WHILE}{SYSTEM}page~>1~
     {Print}2{Page Up}
     {END WHILE}
     {Print}2

Prof. Jerome E. Coffey          PHONE: (O)406-994-5327; (H)406-587-2429
Department of English           INTERNET: UENJC@TERRA.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU
Montana State University        BITNET: UENJC@MTSUNIX1.BITNET
Bozeman, MT 59717-0024 USA      GEnie: J.COFFEY7
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:21:00 MET
From:         LEO PLUGGE <VRDP3PLU@RULIMBURG.NL>
Subject:      Table trouble

Hi,

Does anyone have encountered the following problem:

I regularly use tables to present data. WP4W has a good option for creating
tables, but whenever I use it the text above the table gets distorted, i.e., it
is streched out with large gaps between the words.
This is only visible on the screen when I'm typing. When I ask a print preview
everything is normal.
I suppose this is due to that fact that the line characters have a different
proportion that the normal characters.
What can I do (or can somthing be done) to remedy this irritating fact, which
makes it impossible to continue working.
By the way: when this happens the bottom bar can't be used, although it is
still there.

Is it a bug? (I hope it's not a feature..)

Suggestions are welcome.


Leo
===========================================================================
Dr. Leonard A. Plugge                    |    phone: (0)43-881039/881042
(Cognitive Psychologist)                 |      fax: (0)43-671096
University of Limburg                    | Internet: VRDP3PLU@RuLimburg.NL
Faculty of Medicine                      |   BITNET: VRDP3PLU@HMARL5.BITNET
Dept. Neuropsychology & Psychobiology    +---------------------------------
P.O.Box 616                              | Time is: the registration of the
6200 MD Maastricht                       | increase of a system's entropy.
The Netherlands                          |                         L.P.
============================================================================
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpwin-l
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:34:00 IST
From:         KPUAV@HUJIVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: abbreviation/acronym substitution

Does WPDOS support this?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpwin-l
From: aperrin1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Andy Perrin)
Subject: Re: Want to migrate from WP4Mac to WP4Win
Organization: Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, Pennsylvania, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:09:16 GMT

In article <sffcu.13@cuais01.cc.columbia.edu>,
sffcu@cuais01.cc.columbia.edu (Stew Feuerstein) writes:

>     So once again if anyone has any experience with both WP4WIN and 
> WP4MAC, please let me know what you think of the "WORD PROCESSING" 
> differences between the two.  
>                                     -Stew
> 
> 


Okay.  I've trained folks in using WP/Mac and I use WP/Win exclusively
myself, so I guess that'll do.

I find the Win version significantly more powerful than the Mac version;
there are more options and the whole package runs a bit faster (I know
that's hard to believe for WP4Win users but WP4Mac is even slower).  In
terms of usage, it's not all that different.  There are some commands that
are (stupidly) put in different menus, and the ruler operates differently,
but these are all dinky problems that won't affect you much.  The
drag-and-drop text moving feature in WP/Win is very nice, and (at least
when I was doing it) doesn't exist in Mac.

The printer drivers are a little complicated in WP/Win; it will use either
WordPerfect drivers or Windows drivers.  I ended up using both, depending
on what I want to do.  If I'm using Windows drivers I'm tied to the
TrueType fonts Windows provides.  That means I get very nice output from my
dot-matrix printer (near laser quality with a good ribbon) but it's much
slower and not very efficient on ribbon use.  If I use WP drivers it only
prints in fonts resident in the printer (i.e., in my printer, courier
little courier medium and courier big) but it's much faster.  Users who
aren't real familiar with the issue can get confused because it's very
simple to swithc between the two sets of drivers, and switching back and
forth within a document takes a long time.

Both WP/Win and WP/Mac are essentially interface changes on the old
standard, WP/DOS.  It appears to me that WPCorp didn't have the same people
design the interface for them, so that different decisions were made on
each side.  The upshot of that is that (I think) it's easier for users of
WP/DOS to switch to either WP/Win or WP/Mac than it is to switch between
WP/Win and WP/Mac.

Cheers
Andy
Perrin
From: LEVITANT@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.wpwin-l
Subject: Re: envelope macro
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:04:29 GMT
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

In response to Dick Haney's query on the envelope macro.  I can't help
with the return address difficulty, but my understanding is that the
postal bar net can go above the address.  That is where it appears on a
number of window envelope bills and such that I get.  Of course, I'm not
sure that it does any good anyhow.  I'm told the Zip+4 must be used or
the post office will re code it.  I also created an envelope to be
returned to me with the post net code, zip+4 and still found the post office
recoded it.  Who knows?
Tom