From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:56:38 GMT
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Dec29.233159.1@oread.cc.ukans.edu> starver@oread.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>In Item 22057 Claudia Kale refers to Ted Altar (I think)
>>>we might in turn be better able to understand each other a little
>>>more.  

For the record, the quoted sentence was posted by Ted Altar, and
subsequently included in a follow-up posted by yours trooly.

>
>Claudia Kale (STG) writes:
>
>>
>>    [snip, snip. Out goes a paragraph of me questioning the
>>     the value of hanging prejudicial tags on posters]
>>
>
>In view of the flames here in r.flame.v I see your concern. I don't think
>it is possible for a human not to be prejudiced. Isn't most of our
>thinking (learning?) predicting outcomes based on past experience? I

Yes, it is - you'll get no argument from me on this. My point is that
pigeon-holing posters as Type Z, Type Q or Type G not only *adds* a
level of prejudice, it also may be ludicrously inaccurate as an
indicator of personal perspective. Last week r.f.v. saw a discussion
on the definition of "vegetarian". Does a proper vegetarian eat fish?
Dairy? Eggs? And so on, proponants of every side voiced an opinion.
Dozens of postings later, the issue is still unresolved. If vegetarians
can't agree on who the term includes, what useful information does it
convey to you as a tag hung around the neck of a poster? Reading back
over this, I think I sound a bit pointed, but this is not an idle or
sarcastic or angry question. Seriously?

>consider this 'prejudging', although this is not what people complain
>about with prejudice. I think the negative actions taken because of
>past experiences (or misinformation) is what we object to. I love the 
>news because it puts me in contact with a caliber of people I could
>never put together here in Kansas. What I cherish is personal contact.
>Knowing that a respondant is a woman, a vegan, a vegetarian, associated
>with the Society of Neuroscience, lives in taiwan, is Hindu, etc. helps
>make news contact more personal and much more enjoyable for me. As far 
>as prejudice goes, can't help it, I'm human (Although I can't recall
>having negative feelings for someone for any reason other than their
>own actions). How should you feel about this? 
>Well, now my past experience includes an articulate, bright, 
>female (gawd, I hope this is right, I am guessing from your name, again
>from my past experiences with people named Claudia), vegetarian who
>thinks [..thoughts too numerous to mention..].
>Here (KS), most people can pronounce vegetarian but few know what it
>means and fewer know why you would want to follow these precepts.
>A person may have problems with people discounting their statements but
>I, personally, am proud to say who I am and what I believe.

I am who I am because I can't be anybody else *:o). Am I proud of who/what
I am? I guess I never really thought about it. I am who and what I am
as a result of personal decisions, which by my standards, are ethical.
Does doing my duty to myself give me cause for pride? I don't know. But
failing to do it *definitely* gives me cause to squirm. Does my telling you
3 things about myself make it any easier for you to understand what
I'm all about? I don't really think so. 

This discussion arose because another poster questioned the motives of
non-vegetarians who post long articles to this forum, and who thought
it would be polite for posters to identify their dietary habits. I can
only see such a tag as a tool for those who would use it to bias
their opinion of a poster's credibility. Further, I think it encourages
an "us vs. them" atmosphere which always makes me very uncomfortable.

And don't give up on Kansans so easily. I have some once-in-a-lifetime
calibre friends (some vegetarian, some not) who live in Kansas (and
wouldn't have it any other way). Lawrence used to be home to one of
the finest vegetarian eateries I've ever been lucky enough to encounter;
if there was such a vast and faithful clientele not so long ago, there
are surely plenty of people still around KU/Lawrence who can appreciate
a vegetarian perspective. Hope you find each other.

>
>For the record:
>Steve Tarver
>Ex-submarine/commercial nuclear power plant worker
>29 y-o non-traditional Comp. Eng. Student
>Vegetarian

Cheers,
Claudia (.sigless and apologetic for the length of this posting)