From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: alt.native,alt.config
Subject: Re: Call for Discussion on "alt.native" split
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:29:03 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info


    Well, it's been a while (9 months) but I see that this discussion
has finally come back...

gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>In article <1992Sep12.214332.7868@wdl.loral.com> brunner@lakota.ssd.loral.com
>	(Brian Brunner) writes:

    Hey, Brian. How's it going? Are we really going to try this move
again? I've been waiting for it.

>> 1: alt.native should be soc.culture
>> 	It has a wider distribution among USENET sites than alt.XXX
>> 	it is a proper soc.culture interest

    I'm pretty sure that almost everyone will agree that this is the
case. Actually, this was the only thing that we could get everyone to
agree on last year when we tried this.

>I agree, and am willing to support the notion of making alt.native a
>mainstream newsgroup if we can get volunteers to handle the formalities
>(call for discus- sion, call for votes, vote counting, posting
>reminders, etc., etc.), since I don't have the energy.

    I will handle the RFD/CFV again, if no one objects too strongly, but
we will need to really iron out stuff before I will agree to post an
official RFD.

>> 2: to conform (_sometimes_ useful) to the usenet naming norm,
>> 	alt.native should become soc.culture.amerind

    IF we can get people to agree on the name, I feel this is the name
it should carry.

>Please take another look at the charter for my proposed alt.native.info:

>  1. alt.native.info

>     To carry information pertaining to indigenous populations in all
>     parts of the world, particularly with regard to issues having to
>     do with the well-being of current members of those populations.
>     Subjects pertaining to the traditions and cultures (exclusive of
>     language, which is dealt with in a separate newsgroup [see below])
>     will also be appropriate to this newsgroup.  This newsgroup will
>     be linked with the NATIVE-L list at TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU.

>We are not talking only about American Indians here (as Brian should know,
>since he is on several of the NativeNet mailing lists).

    We have been through this countless time in the past. The fact still
remains that there is no real evidence of traffic in alt.native that
isn't about American Indians.

>I could accept:

>	soc.native
>	soc.native.d
>	soc.native.edu
>	soc.native.lang
>	soc.native.<whatever>  (as a replacement for soc.native.1492 -
>				see my article elsewhere on that subject)

    While there will be a number of people from alt.native that would
like to see a name like soc.native, this name just won't pass in an
official CFV. The name has no meaning. Soc.culture.amerind is the
appropriate name for the group to carry to exist in the mainstream
hierarchies.

>> 	Further: This idea needs to be propounded in the "proper"
>> 	forum, news.groups...

    Not Yet! There is no clear direction for this yet. Actually the
appropriate place for this discussion is alt.native until we get
straight what kind of RFD we want, then we take it to news.groups.

>> Whether each of these divisions merits a group of its'
>> own is subject of the debate that would (in the normal
>> scheme of things) occur in news.groups.

    I think that we need to talk about the merit of these groups in
alt.native before people start putting out proposals all over the place.
IMHO this was one of the things that really worked against the last
proposal to move alt.native in to the mainstream.

>This very fact is one reason why it would be easier to leave these groups
>under the "alt." hierarchy - since it would be very difficult to get a
>series of mainstream newsgroups approved, whereas it would be relatively
>easy (I hope) to create them as "alt." groups.

    Yes, it would be easier. But alt.native really deserves to be a
mainstream soc.culture.* group. 

--
-Hades (Brian V. Hughes) 
   "You know Television has gone to hell when, with every commercial,
	 you find yourself hoping to see the Energizer Bunny."
Newsgroups: alt.native,alt.config