HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Copyrights on netnews articles
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:18:59 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

I said:
>I don't know, but apparently Amateur Radio repeater operators have been
>held liable for the contents of messages they relayed

Then I clarified:
>Yes, but it DID hold repeater operators liable for the contents of
>messages they relayed, even though they had no mechanism for controlling
>those contents.

In article <1992Jul30.191424.19889@wolves.uucp> news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
>There is a *very* significant difference in the situation.  The Radio
>Operators are licensed by the government in their use of a "scarce
>resource" (the electromagnetic spectrum) which the government is
>administering in "public trust". [etc]

That's true. If I was making an analogy between Usenet sites and Ham
Radio repeaters this would be relevant. I WAS NOT. I was simply pointing
out (for the THIRD time, now) that the fact that these operators had no
mechanism for controlling the content of the messages relayed was not
considered by the courts. The details of the violation are not relevant:
the fact that they were responsible for them is.

Any competant lawyer prosecuting a case against a Usenet site will certainly
bring this up. Any claim that you have no way to control the contents of
messages passing through your site is not, therefore, going to be a sufficient
defence.

As far as *I* am concerned, the result in the Ham case is simply wrong. I
see no need to distance myself from it, and should a similar case come up
in amateur radio again I'm prepared to help if I can. In the meantime, how
about coming up with some good defence that doesn't involve jettisoning Hams?

(let's see... first they came for the Hams, but I'm not a Ham, so I said
nothing. Next they came for Fido, but I don't run Fido, so I said nothing.
When they came for me, there was nobody left to speak for me...)
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: article size limit
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:38:59 GMT

In article <H0ZeoB24w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>Hardly.  For starters, x=1024 won't fit on a 3.5" 720K floppy disk.  For a
>number of months I ran a newsfeed using 3.5" disks as the transport medium.
>64 is much better; it'll even fit on those old 5.25" disks that some people
>still use.

I still have, and use, a computer with 88K floppies. But I wouldn't force
you to fit articles on that. On the other hand, 64K is already several minutes
at 2400 baud. A meg is nearly an hour and a half. I can reasonably expect to
maintain a connection for 5 minutes. I can't expect to keep it up for an hour
and a half, repeatedly and reliably, over some of the phone lines in Sugarland.

I would say, at least as long as 2400 baud modems are common, that a couple
of hundred K should be an absolute cap on article size.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Xref: sparky news.admin:6263 news.sysadmin:1164
From: Jeff@digtype.airage.com (Jeff Wasilko)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin
Subject: Serious uupsi3 performance problems
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 22:02:56 EST
Organization: Univ of Fnord; Roslyn's Cafe Div.
Reply-To: jeff@digtype.airage.com
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


If you are calling into PSI's machine UUPSI3 (aka uu3) via a long distance call, 
you might want to check your xferstats (and your long distance bill). 

PSI has been having serious performance problems on this machine,
which is located in NYC. We've been seeing 200-400cps on news batches
(compared to the 1200-1400cps we usually see). Since we are calling
in from Connecticut at 11 cent/minute, it is going to drive our phone
bill thru the roof.

If you would like more info on my on-going problems with PSI, let
me know....

Jeff


--
Jeff's Oasis at Home.                   Jeff can also be reached at work at:
(note address change to jeff@digtype.airage.com)        jwasilko@airage.com
A man walks into a crowded theater and shouts, "ANYBODY WANT TO BUY A CAR?"
The crowd stands up and shouts back, "WRONG THEATER!" -Edward Vielmetti
Xref: sparky news.admin:6203 comp.org.eff.talk:4846 misc.legal.computing:1500
From: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Copyrights on netnews articles
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:44:08 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, Mississippi State University

In article <13712.Jul2615.14.0692@virtualnews.nyu.edu> brnstnd@nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) says:
: In article <mwm.1b85@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us> mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) writes:
: > 2) Providing a mechanism that allows people who *don't* want certain
: > forms of USENET reproduction to happen (for instance, to cdrom) to
: > flag their articles.
: 
: ``Expires:'' would do the trick, don't you think? I'd call it
: ``Non-Automatic-Copying-Permitted-Until:'' but it's the same idea.

Expires: already serves a useful purpose.  It recommends to sites how
long they should retain a given article in their news spool area.

Concern about archiving of articles doesn't imply a concern about how
long they are retained in news spools "in the usual usenet way". 

Some sites keep articles for a day or to while others keep them for
weeks.  Expires, when used politely, provides a mechanism to overide
this for some specific articles like FAQs and such.  If many users post
articles with short expire times they they disappear too soon from long
expire sites.  If the articles have long expire times then they'll blow
short expire sites out of the water (and if those sites shorten their
maximum expire they interfere with "real" uses of the header).

Overloading expires in this way is probably a bad idea.
--
Frank Peters  -  UNIX Systems Programmer  -  Mississippi State University
Internet: fwp@CC.MsState.Edu  -  Phone: (601)325-7030  -  FAX: (601)325-8921
Xref: sparky news.admin:6317 comp.org.eff.talk:4949 misc.legal.computing:1569
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: What is "pay-per-read"?
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:57:01 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <1992Jul28.041449.16469@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
>With a mind of that capacity, it is no wonder you are so confused about
>the contract you entered when you started using netnews!

What contract? I arranged for a feed for the Baylor College of Medicine's
magnetic resonance imaging lab, while working for them on a purely informal
basis, back when the ARPAnet was a real entity and hostnames were things
like "MIT-AI" and "MIT-MC". I'm pretty sure JJ was around before that, so
I doubt he entered into any contract. Whether or not his fuzzy description
of "free" Usenet is meaningful, he's right about the basic nature of the net.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:27:41 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <CKD.92Jul20182021@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>How is a CD-ROM different than a magtape?  Or an Ethernet?  Or the
>invisible virtual perfectly reliable serial line that NNTP runs over? :)
>What if my site does backups onto WORM?  What if a site that gets USENET
>over UUCP or NNTP also gets NetNews/CD?  How does that differ from
>backups on WORM?

It is not the medium, but the usage.  Backing up to a CD-ROM (ok, WORM)
would not be wrong.  Selling copies of the magtape for profit would be.



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lovely to see you again my friend,		|
walk along with me to the next bend.		|	-Richard Hartman	
Tell us what you've seen			|	hartman@uLogic.COM
in far away forgotten lands,			|
Where embers have turned back to sand.		|
Xref: sparky news.admin:6441 comp.org.eff.talk:5067 misc.legal.computing:1669
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Keywords: copyright
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:26:00 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <1992Jul30.083748.21297@ms.uky.edu> sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey) writes:
>So how much for a big fat Usenet CD? $20? $30? Remember, I can buy a
>CD of music--which has a whole lot more engineering and talent put into
>it--for $10. So the Usenet CD better be reasonably priced.

A reasonable price is a price at which someone is willing to buy it. No more,
and no less. End of discussion.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: shane@utdallas.edu (Shane Davis)
Subject: Re: history problem ?
Reply-To: shane@utdallas.edu
Organization: The Univ. of Texas at Dallas, ACC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:35:49 GMT

In article <Bs3r0n.JGG@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, pcwood@romulus (Paul Wood) writes:
|> Each night at about 2:30am on my system I get a /: file system full message.
|> Below is my cron entry for doexpire ( I am running cnews/nntp on a 
|> sun sparc II).  I suspect mkhistory is the culprit as its failed when I tried
|> to run it by hand.  However, I dont get the "SEVERE SPACE SHORTAGE" message.
|> I added a chunk of extra tmp space thinking that was the problem but I still
|> get the filesystem full message.  
|> 
|> 59 0 * * * su news -c /usr/lib/newsbin/expire/doexpire
|> 
|> My disk space looks like this.
|> Filesystem            kbytes    used   avail capacity  Mounted on
|> /dev/sd0a              15487    6400    7538    46%    /
|> /dev/sd0g             144559  108843   21260    84%    /usr
|> /dev/sd1g             256554   23272  207626    10%    /usr/local
|> /dev/sd0h             197919  154551   23576    87%    /home
|> /dev/sd3c            1255494 1017667  112277    90%    /var/spool/news
|> /dev/sd1b              27847    1025   24037     4%    /tmp
|> 
|> Anyone know what program might be doing this ?  Is there a notorius problem
|> here that I dont know about ?  Any help appreciated.
|> 

Mount your tmp space on /var/tmp. sort, I believe, uses /usr/tmp, which is
likely soft linked to /var/tmp (it was on my Sun machine).

That 24M is probably enough. What I do is mount swap on /var/tmp (32M swap, of
which about 24M is typically available for tmp).

Filesystem            kbytes    used   avail capacity  Mounted on
/dev/sd0a              19735    9439    8322    53%    /
/dev/sd0g             103919   70538   22989    75%    /usr
/dev/sd0f              73935   38570   27971    58%    /usr/lib/news
/dev/sd0e              25583   17419    5605    76%    /export
/dev/sd0d             670062  560167   69691    89%    /var/spool/news
swap                   24096       0   24096     0%    /var/tmp

--Shane
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Changing follow up ( was Re: Can We Get Off This ^#$! Subject?
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:52:52 GMT

In article <T7BDoB34w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:

>However, it is the case that inappropriate Followup-To: lines aren't terrorism
>by any stretch of the imagination.  Show me someone who's suffered terror as
>a result of a Followup-To: line and I'll show you someone who should stop
>dropping acid.

What about the guy who almost lost his job as a result of the email
(which his company paid for by the byte, and which almost hosed an
important disk) generated by accidentally posting to misc.test?  (OK,
I don't know that it happened, but it's plausible.  And you asked :-)

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Copyrights on netnews articles
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:59:49 GMT

I think it will be easier and easier to convince a judge of this as
time goes by.  With all the fast inetd and nntplink links around there,
this article will be on the majority of USENET machines within a few
hours.  (57% of USENET articles make it to UUNET in 4 hours.)

As this gets faster and faster, it should become clearer and clearer to
a judge just who is doing the copying.   If it took just seconds or
minutes -- which it could -- the question of who the human in the loop
is would not be argued to heatedly.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Xref: sparky news.admin:6187 comp.org.eff.talk:4840 misc.legal.computing:1493
From: Michael_D_Hill@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 23:06:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul22.031657.32138@mp.cs.niu.edu>
  <1992Jul24.030330.20663@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
  <1992Jul24.042341.19145@mp.cs.niu.edu>


I've been following this thread since I was a teenager, and I just have two
questions.

A.  How IS Ms. Vicki, anyway?

B.  Is there an alt.sex.bestiality.hamsters.ducttape mailing list, because
    my site doesn't carry the group.

Thanks.
Hill.

Michael_D_Hill@cup.portal.com
RE: Copyright note.  Please use this any damned way you see fit.  I can't
use it, that's why I'm giving it away.
Xref: sparky news.admin:6231 comp.org.eff.talk:4865 misc.legal.computing:1513
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Date: 27 Jul 92 08:40:12 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <mwm.1aud@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us 
(Mike Meyer) writes:

> 
> In <2aYG02zf1bOm01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry 
> Carroll) wrote:
> > Nor do you need one in the US.  But including one eliminates the 
"innocent 
> > infringement" defense, which can otherwise be used to reduce (but not 
> > eliminate) damages.
> 
> No, including a copyright does not eliminate the "innocent
> infringement" defense; if the copying mechanism is automated, then
> it's possible that nobody read the copyright.

It might not eliminate "innocent infringement", but it clearly emliminates 
the "innocent infringement" defense.

"If a notice of copyright in the form and position specified by this section 
appears on the published copy or copies to which a defendant in a copyright 
infringement suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such 
defendant's interposition of a defense based on innocent infringement in 
mitigation of actual or statutory damages, except as provided in the last 
sentence of section 504(c)(2)." 17 USC 401(d).  (the last sentence in 
504(c)(2) is a special case for libraries and public broadcasting.)

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: sean@ms.uky.edu (Sean Casey)
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Keywords: copyright
Organization: The Leaning Tower of Patterson Office @ The Univ. of KY
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:36:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.171232.22802@pica.army.mil> drears@pica.army.mil (Dennis G Rears (FSS) <drears>) writes:
:  Point 3)  A company that puts out USENET on CD isn't so much charging
:  for the information content as he is charging for the act of
:  compilation, pressing into CD, etc.  It is similiar to a copy charging
:  a modest packaging fee to put PD software on a tape or disk.

Hmmm that makes me wonder... what is the modest packaging fee for
getting Usenet on CD-ROM? A musician friend of mine can get 1000 CDs
pressed for about $3000. So what does one of these Usenet CDs cost?
$10? $20?

Sean
-- 
                  |``Wind, waves, etc. are breakdowns in the face of the
Sean Casey        | commitment to getting from here to there. But they are the
sean@s.ms.uky.edu | conditions for sailing -- not something to be gotten rid
U of KY, Lexington| of, but something to be danced with.''
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: hiding sex info from minors (was: "Computers graphic when it comes...)
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:28:13 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <91943@bu.edu> abw@natchez.bu.edu (Al Wesolowsky) writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.064847.8698@phlpa.pha.pa.us> scott@phlpa.pha.pa.us (Scott Scheingold) writes:
>[exchange on censorship censo^H^H^H^H^Hdeleted)
>
>>At what age is a child fully ready to comprehend sex and alternate things
>>like lifestyles and alt.sex.*.

There is not magic number -- this depends upon the maturity
(mental and emotional) of the child.  Some children are fine
with this stuff at 10, some not till they're 15.  Some people
are *never* fully capable of dealing w/ such things in a
rational manner.....

>You're asking the net?! Most of us still giggle over expressions like
>"social intercourse."

And "premarital interdigitation".... <g>

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
It's not the way that you say it	|
when you do those things to me,		|	-Richard Hartman	
it's more the way you really mean it	|	hartman@uLogic.COM
when you tell me what will be.		|
Xref: sparky news.admin:6127 alt.censorship:6242 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:2381
From: jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews)
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:19:00 GMT
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

In article <1992Jul23.122034.28066@phlpa.pha.pa.us> scott@phlpa.pha.pa.us (Scott Scheingold) writes:
>Ok. Would you let your seven year old read it? Can a seven year old get into
>an adult book store? Do you call not letting a seven year old go into a
>adult book store censorship as well?

     You miss my point.  My point was that everyone has a line
to draw; you simply seem to draw it to include censoring
material given to children, but not any given to adults.  I draw
it to include censoring some material given to adults too.  Where
to draw the line is debatable, but the lines exist for everyone.

--Jamie.                       ,
  jamie@cs.sfu.ca           (-:=
"Cool... clear... Usenet"      `   (not)
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: scott@phlpa.pha.pa.us (Scott Scheingold)
Subject: Re: hiding sex info from minors (was: "Computers graphic when it comes...)
Organization: Ians' Playhouse
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 06:48:47 GMT

In article <JBW.92Jul26000243@bigbird.bu.edu> jbw@bigbird.bu.edu (Joe Wells) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.221517.8106@phlpa.pha.pa.us> scott@phlpa.pha.pa.us (Scott Scheingold) writes:
>
>   I agree with the point of not letting children see or read alt.sex.* ...
>
>Why?  Do you feel it is better to keep children ignorant of some things?
>Do you think sex is wrong or shameful?

I have answerd this in a couple of other posts but I will say again, My
intent is not to keep children ignorant of anything. I do however feel that
a child even with the best guide will not be able understand what goes on in
alt.sex.*. If a parent wishes to let their child read alt.sex.* or anything
dealing with sex that is fine with me. I would just hope the would guide
them through it and not just put it in front of them.

To answer your other question. No sex is a good thing it is to be talked
about in the open not something to be ashamed of ect. But as I have stated
before there where some situations while growing up that I did not
understand until my early teens. And I even had a good guide to explain it.

>
>I find censorship of anything at any time for any reason to be wrong,
>immoral, and evil.
>

I agree with you compleatly except when it comes to child pornography ( the
real thing NOT fiction). 

One of my questions that I am still wondering about is:

At what age is a child fully ready to comprehend sex and alternate things
like lifestyles and alt.sex.*.

Scott



-- 
Need service? Ask me about USENET news feeds and mail service.
Scott Scheingold sysadmin   Voice   1-215-546-9959
UUCP 	...!{widener|dsinc}!jabber!phlpa!scott  or scott@phlpa.pha.pa.us
Compuserve 76057.607@compuserve.com  
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: What is "pay-per-read"?
Organization: gte
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:57:49 GMT

In article <23244@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (jj, old grump curmudgeon) writes:
[...]
> "Pay for read" means that somebody is charging for the information
> content, as opposed to charging for the computer usage, costs,
> etc.  If, to use an example that has happened, somebody took an article
> of mine and printed it in an audio magazine, that would violate
> my copyright.   If someone were to make a compilation of 
> "jj's articles" <YHWH knows WHY someone would, this is hypothetical>
> and sell it as "jj's articles", yes, that would be a violation.
> 
> Someone charging people to USE THEIR COMPUTER or their communications
> mechanism isn't charging for information.

Precisely, and someone charging me for their connect-time, computer
time, and media costs is also not charging for information.

Like, uh, say a CD-ROM.  What is the difference between charging me for
the modem time or charging me for the CD-ROM and shipping?

On the other hand, since I'm spending money to get information, am I
not buying the information?  Really now, I could give a rat's *ss 
about computer time - I want information.

So what is the pay for connect *really* selling?

I'd say computer time *and* the information in that computer.
(I don't think anyone would pay to see what's in an empty
computer!)

You are playing semantics: based on my somewhat limited experience,
this doesn't always do very well in a court of law.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Changing follow up ( was Re: Can We Get Off This ^#$! Subject?
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:33:58 GMT
Reply-To: rpwhite@cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite)
Followup-To: news.admin,talk.bizarre,alt.newbie,misc.test,alt.test
Organization: Monterey Bay Yacht Club, Monterey CA

Seth Breidbart writes:

>What [if a person] almost lost his job as a result of the email
>(which his company paid for by the byte, and which almost hosed an
>important disk) generated by accidentally posting to misc.test?

Let's face facts:

          NO ONE POSTS ACCIDENTALLY TO MISC.TEST

Ever seen this before?:

  This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
  civilized world.  You message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
  dollars to send everywhere.  Please be sure you know what you are doing.

It takes a definite, positive response in order to post.

Anyone who lies and indicates that they know what they're doing,
when in fact they don't, deserves the fan mail.
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing