HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 29 Jan 93 02:41:49 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1k9huqINN95@garlic.csv.warwick.ac.uk> esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr W J Lynn) writes:
>In article <C1KoMx.AM@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:

>>Actually, the lyrics state that the Maples formed a union and passed a noble
>>law.  I don't think there was meant to be a literal interpretation of what
>>belongs in the plant kingdom and what is human.  I believe all that is
>>implied is the simple fact that the Maples, who only saw their oppression and
>>nothing else, forced equality on everyone.  This equality was not
>>brought about by raising the Maples to the standards of the Oaks, but by
>>reducing the Oaks to the level of the Maples.

Exactly.

>No, the lyrics don't state that at all.
>Lets put it this way, would the oaks allow the maples to pass
>this law?

If it were a democracy, all that would be required is for the majority
of the trees to be formed by the maples.



>They were under the oaks who did _not_ want to change.

But under in what sense? The maples were _overshadowed_, not as _well made_
as the oaks.

>  "But the oaks can't help their feelings 
>   if they like the way they're made.......
>   and they wonder why the maples can't
>   be happy in their shade......"

>They can't see what the prob is, so why do anything about it?

That's right. And only the maples see the situation as unpleasant.

>The whole song basically says to me.....
>
>There are 2 groups bickering over something......
>neither side wants to back down, nor sees why they should.....
>and in the end, an irrelevant third party decided he/she's had
>enough and chops them all down to size.

Again, there is no third party mentioned anywhere in the song.

The theme is a classic Rush theme: the mediocre trying to make the superior 
conform. Think about the song in the context of others like 2112 and "Anthem"
and it becomes clear taht this how the song is easily understood.

-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: prater@cs.yale.edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Re: By-Tor and the Snow Dog (was Re: Album bouts)
Reply-To: prater-ethan@yale.edu
Organization: Yale Univ. Science & Engineering Computing Facility, New Haven, CT 06520
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:03:22 GMT

Mr J Currid (esuyn@csv.warwick.ac.uk) wrote:

: I have read a fair number of posts about bootlegs, and one in particular
: called La Villa Strangiato, which a lot of people have commented on as 
: having a good version of Natural Science. I'm not sure whether this is the
: same one but here in England there is one called Xanadu, recorded      
: live in St Louis in 1980. 

Yes, _La Villa Strangiato_ (also called _The Spirit of St. Louis on CD_)
is the same as the LP entitled _Xanadu_. -- cf. _Hot Wacks Boox XV_


: Xanadu itself is a bootleg record, but the sound, as far as
: I'm aware has been taken from another record called the Anthem Records Promo
: LP. It claims it was recorded over a few nights at Keil Auditorium, St Louis
: in Feb or March 1980. 

I've never heard of the promo LP, but that recording is from a radio
broadcast.

--Ethan

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Ethan Evan Prater    |    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
                        |
   prater@yale.edu      |          -- Rush -- By-Tor and the Snow Dog --
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Keywords: Correction
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:08:53 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <108428@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan26.231215.10201@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340 writes:
>
>
>>Perhaps Neil implied the "they" to be something other than what was previously
>>mentioned throught the song.
>
>I strongly doubt it.
>
	Why?
>Gregg -->Jaeger<--

	Ever thought that maybe Neil thought that there might be several valid
interpretations to this, and probably most other, songs...

My $.02 to augment what I said earlier...


-- 
Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush and Satan (was Re: Rivendell (was Re: ALBUM BOUT))
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:45:53 -0600
Summary: Lucifer
Reply-To: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1993Jan25.131813.23571@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs911029@ariel.yorku.ca (THOMAS J DUCK) writes:
> In article <1993Jan24.205546.10137@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> 
>>Perhaps I should add the level of Satanic influence as another thing by which
>>to compare albums.  With Rush there's plenty of that to go around.
> 
> I've never been able to find any (and I've been listening to them for years 
  and years and years!).
> 
> Cheers,
> Thomas J. Duck
> 

That's the whole point Mr. Duck:  Satan is overwhelming your entire system, but
you don't realize it.  If you don't mend your ways, he will be able to control
all of your thoughts and actions.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Goose
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Album Bout #3
Date: 27 Jan 93 10:27:45 -0600
Summary: Spam
Reply-To: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

OK, I'll try to keep Gregg satisfied.  Here's album bout #3:

Grace Under Pressure v. Power Windows

My opinion on #2:
        All the World's a Stage.  Why?  Because it's the only live album by
Rush that actually sounds live!  Plus, the Geddyisms are quite good.

Yours faithfully,


The Analog Kid
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:14:36 -0600
Summary: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <108275@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
> 
> I don't think so. The _trees_ passed a law that they must be kept equal.
> If any humans _reduced_ (a la "kept equal", not _felled_) _some_ trees
> it was presumably due to _their_ law. It's not that the trees were
> fighting humans or something.
> 
> My reading has always been that the trees `democratically' pushed
> equality too far. Presumably this is what Neil meant by "human
> behavior"...
> 
> Gregg

Weren't the humans responsible for passing the Noble Law?  The Oak oppression
was stopped by hatchets, axes, and saws used by humans.  Unfortunately for all
of the trees, the humans didn't distinguish between the kinds of trees that are
chopped down.  The humans came by to end the war between the trees- not for
altruistic motives, however.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Kid

P.S.  Who's this imposter calling himself The Analod Kid? Make it be known
that there's only room for one of us!
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: khiggins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ken Higginson)
Subject: Re: RTB:  Neurotica
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:15:00 GMT

>If you listen right to the end of Between The Wheels and Mystic Rhythms, you'll
>find that they're not actually fade outs on the album - the keyboard parts do
>come to a conclusion, only very quietly. Why has that been done? Why didn't
>Peter Henderson and Peter Collins resp. leave the mix high if the song was
>going to actually finish?
>

Same on "Ghost Of A Chance"... turn it up and you hear the entire song. 
It has a definate ending, not a stupid fade.
From: misselt@trapper.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu (Karl &)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Dumb Question about Trees
Date: 24 Jan 1993 20:55:09 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: trapper.sdsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Zaphod Beeblebrox (mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu) wrote:
: In article <C1C1v7.7n@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:
:>>Fellows,
:>>        This may be dumb question, but in the Trees,what is Peart
:>>writing about? Is it about race relations? Is it about Quebec vs.
:>>English Canada? Is it about liberalism/socialism in general?  I'm not
:>>quite clear, though I have a basic handle on it. Also, is Rush becoming
:>>politically more liberal? Their earlier lyrics seem to often be
:>>rightist Ayn Rand-derived stuff, whereas in songs like "The Big Money"
:>>and "Red Tide" Peart seems to be more politically liberal...

:>It's my *personal* opinion that Peart is talking about race relations in
:>the trees.  That song has always struck me that way.  Now that you've brought


:>| Mike Wilson | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.         |
:>|   Va Tech   | If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.    |
:>|  UnderGrad  | You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill |
:>|Comp. Science| I will chose a path that's clear, I will chose Free Will.-RUSH|

   Am I the only one who has never even thought of this particular interpretation
of 'The Trees'?  To me it has always been a more individualistic song.  I 
interpret it to be about absurdity of complete equality (of outcome).  I take the 
oaks to represent those, who exist in any human society, that accomplish more 
than their fellows.  This may be through native ability, persverance, effort or 
even just plain luck.  The ending has always been very chilling to me.  I see a 
faceless mob turning to the coercive force of government to enforce a kind to 
conformity/mediocrity:  'Since we can't rise to your level, we'll pass a 
"Noble Law", and cut you down to ours.'  Hence the hatchet, ax and saw.  

   As far as the new stuff being more politically liberal,  I agree that that 
interpretation is much easier with the newer material.  I don't agree that it is 
more liberal, but...     
   As an example, look at the two songs cited by Tim.  'The Big Money' to me    
addresses the notion of money in and of itself being evil.  Peart seems to be saying 
that money is not evil.  It's 'done a power of good', but 'has no soul'.  People who 
control money can do good or evil with it, but the money itself is not capable of 
either as it has no soul.  It is a tool.  As to 'Red Tide', concern for the 
environment is not the exclusive domain of liberals, though they might wish you 
to think it is.  Environmental concern does not define a liberal:  How you choose
to address the problem does.  

-Karl M.
From: brownea@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: exit
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:40:17 GMT
Organization: Utah Valley Community College


	Considering comments about labor unions and 'The Trees' - couldn't
the 'hatchet, axe, and saw' be interpreted as the wages that union members
get nowadays?  I see this as a valid interpretation because of the problems
facing big business today in paying these wages.  The business has to lay-off
numbers of their employees to match the fees that the unions require for
the remaining employees.   The cost of a car is jacked up, and the quality 
goes down.  This results in national damage: fewer jobs, loss of image.


	As for album bout #3:
	These two albums are so close together in prowess, while being so
different in style; I think 'The Analog Kid' picked them just to use as an
abject lesson.  
	I don't vote when I can't win.  (unless I can do damage to the
greater evil. :=)

	Earl 	
	brownea@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: irsman@iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Digital vs. Analog
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:08:26 GMT

In article <1k5ko0INNjec@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder) writes:
>Hmmmm, not sure I understand your last question here.  I DO know I've
>had plenty of CDs where there's so much tape hiss from the crappy analog
>recording and mixing techniques that it drives one nuts.  A lot of the
>"headroom" is just bled away by people who don't seem to have any
>respect for the clarity you can get in the CD medium.  I haven't noticed
>much hiss on Rush albums, but I have one CD where there's so much hiss
>on the vocal track that you can actually hear them turning the level of
>the track up and down when the singer is singing quietly, because they
>had to jack up the level so high to catch his voice that it sounds like
>you're cooking sausages.  And this is an actual studio recording, not a
>bootleg or anything.

I've heard little or no hiss on the Rush CDs from around MP or so on, which
is about when they went ADD.  PoW on (DDD) are some of the best-sounding CDs
I have in terms of clarity and dynamics, esp. HYF.  (Could it be that Rupert
Hine isn't too great with digital recording, in addition to the other reasons
flying around to get rid of him :-)



-- 
        Ian Schmidt: irsman@iastate.edu or aol.com, BITNET: twbv4@isuvax       
 "I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose free will." - Neil Peart
From: stephenm@odie.cs.mun.ca (Stephen Mercer)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: 2112 ending... (was: RE: The Fountain Of Lamneth)
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:37:17 GMT
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland

In article <1993Jan19.191647.17791@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> fes9s@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Frank Erick Sellin) writes:
>Okay, assuming that the Elder Race does come back and effect a coup (which
>from earlier posts, seems to be the most likely and logical explanation,
>but I daresay is not the only _possibility_), then an earlier post
>confuses me:   someone asserted that the protagonist (who finds the guitar
>and eventually commits suicide) and his death have _no_ effect on the
>population. 
>
>If that is the case, then I ask, why the hell did we hear about his story
>for four sections of 2112?  I admit, there is no statement that he _does_
>affect any revolutionary undertakings, but my own personal impression is
>that he does, implicitly.  AFter all, he unearths the existence of the
>Elder Race, shortly after taking on the priests formally, and shortly
>before he's reduced to an underground existence (or wherever he is 
>during the soliloquy.)  I would think his confrontation with the priests
>made waves, at least through rumor, if squelched in the official media.
>And _then_ he makes the connection with the Elder Race, through a dream,
>no less, which suggests that perhaps _they_ were trying to contact him.
>And he's still alive when Ged sings "I wish that it might come to pass..."
>which _can_ suggest that some sort of plan is in motion, although the
>outlook may not be good.  Or maybe "it" refers to the dream he just
>had, and possibly the Elder Race intimated what it was they had in mind.
>
>Certainly, the protagonist's confrontation with the priests and then
>ultimate suicide would make fine grist for any propaganda maneuvers by
>the Elder Race or whomever.
>
>Well, that's my 0.02 clams.  I just think that it doesn't make a 
>whole lot of sense to tell us about this guy for so long if his role
>is merely peripheral at best.
>
>Frank
>.

Shakespeare based most(?) of his plays about the tragic hero. Who
knows?.....But then, maybe I'm blowing hot air!

/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Stephen Mercer 		     |"Wondering what our dreams might be |
| Department of Computer Science     |  worth..."                         |
| Memorial University of Newfoundland|"Learning that we're only	immortal  |
| stephenm@odie.cs.mun.ca	     |   ... for a limited time." -- Rush |
| "You mean I'm RESPONSIBLE for what I say!?" ##[ 8^p ]# - "Dreamline" -  |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Court cases
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:13:59 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <C1IC1x.26v@sci.kun.nl> berger@cs.kun.nl (Frits Berger) writes:
>Hiya, i've got a question concerning court cases. Has RUSH ever been
>involved in any legal tangles? E.g. lawsuits concerning plagiarism,
>drug offences? Yes I know the boys are considered half-gods, but in
>the twentey-odd years they are together something fishy must've 
>happened. 
>Oh yes not to tread on anyone's feet, I meant lawsuits concerning 
>RUSH being plagiarized.
> Seeya!
>    Frits

	I seem to remember that when the original cover to PermWaves was made
the newspaper on the cover was the "Dewey Defeats Truman" Chicago Tribune.  I
theink that there was a threat of legal action there, but I am not sure about 
any particulars...  any other takers?


-- 
Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu  ->EVERYTHING I.M.H.O.<-
The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart
From: Matt.Wilkinson%bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Matt Wilkinson)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Satanism?  Oh no, not that again.
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:46:10 GMT
Reply-To: Matt.Wilkinson%bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Matt Wilkinson)
Organization: Quake Public Access, San Fernando Valley, CA (818)362-6092
X-Posting-Software: UniBoard 1.10a S/N 210921

I was going to just "r"eply to the message about Album Bouts which somehow
got turned into "Rush is full of satanic influences", but then I thought
better about it and figured a simple message without a lot of cross-posts
and unrelated "is so... is not... is so..." nonsense was more to the point.

Neil himself penned an article in response to some organization accusing him
(and, by extension, Rush) of being "satanic" or "satanically influenced." 
The bottom line was (and I'm quoting from memory):

"I don't even *believe* in the guy, so how could I be influenced by him?"

Neil's passionate belief in free will and self determination precludes *any*
kind of allegiance to a "higher" or "lower" power (depending on your
perspective, I suppose).  This would include God as much as it would include
Satan.  "Prime Mover" on HYF is somewhat enigmatic (for me) though, because
the title suggests Aristotle's concept of a "divine" being (not what passes
for god today, but rather of some other intelligence which was responsible
for physical reality) whom he called the 'prime mover' or 'uncaused cause'
in his metaphysics.

Nevertheless, my point is that you really should read what Neil has to say
on the subject himself.  The article is available for ftp at syrnix.umd.edu.

If you can't get it there, send me mail at the address below and I'll try
and dust off a copy of it that I may have squirreld away in some dark
directory where I thought I'd never look again since I thought this whole
"Rush is satanic" thing was long over.

--Matt
INET:  pslvax!mattw@ucsd.edu
UUCP:  ...ucsd!pslvax!larson!matt
From: greg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Greg severine)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Rush stuff for sale
Date: 26 Jan 93 06:19:38 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida


The following Rush items available for sale:
   All are auction items with the exception of the videos at the end.
   Auction ends on 1/31/93.  Highest bidder will be notified then.
      1)  Alex Lifeson guitar pick- Roll the bones tour
      2)  Rush Through Time LP (Import best of...)
      3)  Concert program for Signals tour
      4)  Framed 8x10 photo of Geddy and Alex (w/ doublenecks circa. '79)
      5)  Roll the bones calander
    Videos as follow, each $12.00...
      1)  Montreal, CA  '84
      2)  Toronto, CAN  '90
      3)  "Rush Hour"  Canadian TV Special
      4)  Rarities, including early appearance on Don Kirschner
    Hope you find something that is of interest...
     Please e-mail bids to me on the auction items...
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:56:11 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <IfNiPU600WAu07Y183@andrew.cmu.edu> jmci+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan T. Moore) writes:
>jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
 
>> The relevant lyrics are:
>> 
>> So the maples formed a union
>> And demanded equal rights.
>> "These oaks are just too greedy;
>> We will make them give us light."
>> Now there's no more oak oppression,
>> For they passed a noble law,
>> And the trees are all kept equal
>> By hatchet, axe, and saw.

>> 
>> "They" clearly refers to the maples here.

>Well, I don't think it is at all that clear, since the nearest
>antecendent to the word "they" is in fact "oak," which would imply
>that in fact the oaks passed the noble law (which indeed would seem
>better to fit the adjective "noble" anyway, what with the old notion
>that nobility implied responsibility to those beneath you).

In fact, the nearest antecedant is _not_ oak, because that word occurs
in quotes (i.e. is part of the statement of oaks). "Noble" is used in
the sense of `moral' here and is ironical.

> Any law
>(excuse my analogy) passed by peasants to tear down a king and make
>him an equal can hardly be called a noble act....


There is nothing about the oaks being `a king' or `ruling class', only
that they are grabbing up more light, i.e. more wealth. IMHO they are
simply more productive organisms...


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: khiggins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ken Higginson)
Subject: Re: ALBUM BOUT #2
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 07:06:19 GMT

>ALBUM BOUT #2
>
>All the World's a Stage v. A Show of Glands . . . I mean Hands
>

A Show Of Hands..  I like the songs better.  I gravitate towards new Rush,
not Zep-Rush...
 
Oh, rag on that all you want.  A lot of their older stuff sounds like LZ,
and I hate LZ.  I'm the only person in tha world who thinks that band sucks.

Plus the technology has come a long way...  Even if all the keyboard parts
are on a hard-drive backstage...I don't care.  Technology is good.
 
But I think the video is better than the album.
 
And being there is better than anything in the world.
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Album Bout #3
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:42:13 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1993Jan27.102745.10211@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340 writes:

>OK, I'll try to keep Gregg satisfied.  Here's album bout #3:

:)

>Grace Under Pressure v. Power Windows

This is a hard one to judge! I'd say it's a draw. 

p/g is more creative but PoW is very well composed and performed. 


Gregg

-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!