HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cscott@csc.afit.af.mil 
Subject: Another 'Fundamental' Loss the NYM
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:35:37 GMT

Well, it's the end of another nationwide broadcast of a New York Mets game,
and as usual the team that was supposed to play 'fundamental' baseball
put on a clinic which could easily be entitled "How to play to LOSE and be
successful at it!!!"  Although Mets' manager Jeff Torborg cannot be faulted
for poor execution, it's amazing how rarely this team attempts to even try
employing high percentage moves or strategies.  I haven't seen many Mets
games since moving to Ohio last year; however, they look as pitiful as they
did before spending BIG $'s on free agency.  

As was the case with ex-manager Bud Harrelson (another 'I pledge to stress
the fundamentals'-manager that did the reverse!), the Mets appear 
lackluster even when they win games.  The Mets are a team that, for the 
most part, does not have the 'will to win.'  It's hard to tell where it 
went--maybe Davey Johnson took it with him? :-)

What's the real story in New York?  Are there any moves being discussed? Is 
the team up for sale?  (Who knows, maybe new ownership could help!)  Is 
Torborg's job in danger yet?  Sure it's still early enough for anything to 
happen, but this season is over unless something occurs to regenrate the 
Mets' desire to win.  The same goes for next season as well!

(NOTE: I now have my 'asbestos suit' on--flame away fellow New York fans!)

Regards,
Carl

cscott@csc.afit.af.mil
Grad Student, Air Force Institute of Technology
Wright-Patterson AFB OH 45433
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:01:55 GMT

In <2178180@overmind.citadel> uiatma.atmos.uiuc.e!hbrooks@overmind.mind.org writes:

>Are you saying it's impossible to tell whether Fred McGriff or Andres 
>Galarraga is a better player?  Barry Bonds or Luis Salazar?  Edgar Martinez

objectively yes it is impossible.  You can have your opinion and I can have
mine.  In many cases those opinions are obviously going to be the same
although the evidence we might use to substantiate those opinions could
be radically different.

>or Gary Gaetti?  Etc., etc.  I hate to ask the question (although the answer
>might be amusing), but what the heck does "better" mean to you?  And on what
>basis do you think teams make decisions in spring training most of the time?

The best player is the one who contributes the most to his team's quest
for the Championship.  Is that amusing?  Until there is a way to measure
that contribution there is no way to objectively determine who the best
player is.  Boxing, golf, tennis, tiddly-winks yes...but baseball is a 
team sport.  The individual player's contribution cannot be isolated
from the team.
  
 
rm

>Harold
>-- 
>Harold Brooks (NSSL, Norman, OK) hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
>Officially self-employed, self-speaking
>Andres Galarraga (Through 21 July)  .194 BA  .286 SLG  .234 OBA
>27 H away from .300  6 HBP  3 BB

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu (Brent Hutto)
Subject: Re: Braves lose - finally!
Reply-To: hutto@smtc.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:14:03 GMT

In article <3796@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>The most blatant missed call went against the Braves in game 3.  Ron Gant (I
>believe it was) was attempting to steal second, and the Pirates called a
>pitchout.  Don Slaught took the throw at the front of the righty's batters'
>box, and threw Gant out.  It was a flagrant catcher's balk, but no call was
>made.  Slaught was *not* behind the plate when the pitch was released.

    Actually, it was Otis "Rally Killer" Nixon, pickoff threat and wall
    climber extrordinare.  This is not the first time this season that
    Otis has either been thrown out on a pitch out or picked off first
    in a situation where I thought it was really obvious that the other
    team would know he was going.
-------------------------------
Brent Hutto
hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Cone threw how many pitches?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 18:52:22 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <1992Jul22.194811.79807@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH) writes:
>In article <3488@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>,
>rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari) writes:
>>While watching some of the Dodgers/Mets game tonite I remembered something
>>I heard a day or so ago, but I just can't believe is true.  According to the
>>some announcers (I can't remember who since I don't remember which game I was
>>watching at the time), David Cone threw *166* pitches in his start last week.
>>Can anyone confirm/deny this?
>
>Confirmed by the New York Times, Tuesday edition. Give him the Charles "Old
>Hoss" Radbourne Award for 1992. And Mets fans everywhere are quaking; one bad
>rotator cuff is enough.
>                                                    - JAM
Buddy Harrelson must be back.  Cone pitch counts last year included 148, 137, 
138, 139, and 141.  The most pitches thrown an ANY NL game last year was 154.


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 01:04:26 EDT
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: More quiz questions (WAS: Re: 1951 Baseball Encyclopedia)
Distribution: usa
 <BrpIEu.Bzv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Jul21.174933.2330@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
 <1992Jul21.220045.23358@midway.uchicago.edu>

It is always interesting when somebody comes up with the weird case
of a batter stroking what appears to be a single into the outfield,
only to have a turtle runner from third get gunned down at the plate.
Guess what, though? The batter *does* get a single - even if the
inning ended with the runner being thrown out at the plate - even if
the batter-runner hadn't reached first base yet. How can this be?

Rule 10.06c says: When the PITCHER, the CATCHER or any INFIELDER
handles a BATTED ball and PUTS OUT a preceding runner who is
attempting to advance one base or to return to his original base....

The rule specifically says pitcher, catcher, infielder. The rule
says nothing about outfielder. Also keep in mind that Rule 10.05
comes into play.

Rule 10.05b: When a batter reaches first base safely on a fair
ball hit with such force, or so slowly, that any fielder attempt-
ing to make a play with it has no opportunity to do so [a base
hit shall be scored]. The casebook ruling then says that if a
fielder cannot make a play on the batter-runner, then the batter-
runner shall be credited with a base hit. This rule is more
popularly seen in action when a third baseman or a shortstop
goes into the hole, bobbles the ball, and is unable to throw
out a fast batter-runner. The scorer has to think long and
hard as to whether or not if the fielder had played the ball
cleanly he would have gotten the runner.

There is no fielder's choice in a situation such as this,
simply because the outfielder, it is presumed, could not
have thrown the batter-runner out at first. So, yes, you can
get a base hit even though a runner is thrown out as a result -
even if the out ends the inning.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Realignment question
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <19842@optima.cs.arizona.edu> dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K.  
Lowenthal) writes:
> 
> I was under the impression that realignment was supposed to save teams
> travel money.  I can't understand this.  ESPN showed a graphic stating  
that
> the cost of the Astros' 28 day road trip was something like $10,000.  
> How much money is really going to be saved by, say, the Reds flying to
> the West Coast 2 times instead of 3 per year?

$10,000.  Per person, maybe?  Hotel rooms alone (assuming one roomate)
cost (at least) $60 a night per person so that's $1680 just for one
person.  Multiply that by 35 or so and you get $60,000 just for hotel
costs of a trip that long.  Add travel and food and you'd at least 
double that, problably more (since I imagine the players get
a pretty high per-diem).


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:01:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.170233.16445@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>How will the Jays offense improve?  By trading Manuel Lee for Cal Ripken?
>
Well, Gruber could learn to ignore the crowd and concentrate on hitting,
while Devon White could learn to get on base; on top of that, uh, well,
some pinch-hitting would be nice -- yeah, that's it.

Wait a minute -- the Jays don't get chances to pinch hit.

Colin.

P.S.  While I'm a bigger Expos' fan than I am a Jays' fan, I must say
that some of the posts referring to the 'spos' surge of late have been
pretty obnoxious.  Having lived through the invasion of the Penguins'
fans on rec.sport.hockey (no offense, Sherri et al.), I have seen the
future, and it scares me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: Support-Neutral W/L Report -- AL (and NL)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:11:22 GMT

Harold_Brooks writes:
>Michael Wolverton writes:
>>
>>Luckiest 10 AL Starters (ranked by (W - E(W)) + (E(L) - L)):
>>
>>    Pitcher       Team    E(W)  E(L)    W  L   Diff.
>>---------------------------------------------------
>>1.  Morris         TOR    7.2   8.4    12  3   10.1
>>2.  Brown,K        TEX    9.6   7.4    14  6    5.8
>>
>
>Gee, whiz.  Morris sticks out like a sore thumb.

Pretty outrageous, isn't it?  I wonder if he can keep it up for the
full year.  I also wonder if he's had this kind of luck throughout his
career -- I know that he had another good record/mediocre ERA
combination last year, and that his lifetime ERA is nothing to write
home about.  (Actually, if he *has* been like this his whole career,
then I should probably think about putting "luck" in quotation marks.)


>>Unluckiest 10 AL Starters (ranked by (W - E(W)) + (E(L) - L)):
>>
>>    Pitcher       Team    E(W)  E(L)    W  L   Diff.
>>----------------------------------------------------
>>1.  Abbott         CAL    8.3   5.9     4 11   -9.4
>>
>>Unluckiest 10 NL Starters (ranked by (W - E(W)) + (E(L) - L)):
>>
>>    Pitcher       Team    E(W)  E(L)    W  L   Diff.
>>----------------------------------------------------
>>1.  Abbott         PHI    3.0   6.6     1 11   -6.4
>
>And what is it about
>the name Abbott that leads to such bad luck?  The revenge of Lou 
>Costello, perhaps, for causing such mental anguish during the "Who's
>on First" routine?

When these guys first started taking the "lead" in bad luck back in
April, I sort of started rooting for them to be even *more* unlucky,
so the media would catch on.  Finally, a few weeks ago, they did a
lead-in on Sportscenter which talked about it being "a bad year to be
named Abbott".  No kidding!

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chriss@sam.amgen.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: Re: WHAT SHOULD THE DODGERS DO???
Organization: Amgen
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:21:13 GMT

In article <182791@pyramid.pyramid.com>, stown@pyramid.COM (Scott Townsend) writes:
> 
> Another thing that I fel that the Dodgers need to do is to give Lasorda
> another job in the organization and take him off the field as manager.

I agree, but for different reasons.  I've never been that impressed with
Lasorda as manager anyway.  IMHO, he is responsible for the current condition
of Orel.  When Orel was hot back at the end of the '89 season, he really
overused him.  It seemed like he was pitching some in every game.  And in the
playoffs and World Series, that was definately the case.  No wonder Orel had 
to have surgery!  Lasorda burned him out!  And as far as winning that Series,
it was not the manegerial skill of Lasorda...He just got lucky...besides
overusing Orel.

Since I'm living in L.A. now, I've decided to start rooting for the Dodgers,
but I'm going to wait until after Lasorda is gone, which will probably be by
the end of the season.  There's a lot of talent on the current team, yet the
bad news bears could beat them right now.  It's time for a change.

Flame on, Dodger Blue, but Lasorda is on his way out.

Chris S.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch)
Subject: Orioles Tickets: Plea for help and/or info
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:49:54 GMT

  I'm making this post to see if anyone out there either has tickets or knows
of anyone who has tickets to Camden Yards that might be willing to part with 
a pair during the August 21-23 (Fri-Sun) series against Oakland. Sunday would
be preferable, but I guess I'm willing to live with whatever I can get,
especially if they're good seats. 

  Please, please, if you know of anyone that might need to (or be willing to)
part with two tickets at this time, have them get ahold of me at 

  kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu 

  or else phone (612)331-8046 and I'll reimburse you for phone costs. (I'll 
try to be around for a collect call, but it's doubtful. If one of my
roommates is around, leave your phone number with him and I'll get back to 
you ASAP.) Sorry about posting all this, but I figured it would be the best
way to reach the largest number of people. If all else fails, I'll call up
the park and take whatever they have left for tickets.  

  If anyone out there can help me out, I'd be willing to compensate you with 
a computer retouched picture of one of our favourite red-headed netters from
Davis, CA. (I'm dead serious.) You can name your graphic file format. I won't
discuss specifics, but I will say that this picture will probably make you
laugh so hard it'll bring tears to your eyes. If that's not what you're
looking for, I'm sure we can arrange some other form of compensation. 
 
-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch       "Blue Jays all the way in '92"
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                                      Jeff Kent for ROY
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting, bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Another 'Fundamental' Loss the NYM
Organization: American Software Development Corp., W. Babylon, NY
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:09:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.190226.99642@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH) writes:
>I don't know how Harrelson, a feisty player in his day, got so blase, but it
>happened. . . .

Because Bud Harrelson tried to be someone he had no chance of imatating.
Harrelson idolized the late Gil Hodges to the point of hanging a picture
of Hodges in his office, the same office Gil Hodges used as manager of
the Mets.  It was Hodges who told Harrelson (in 1968) to be the leader
on the infield and Harrelson up.  The problem is that Harrelson does not
have the characteristics of Hodges to play Hodges.  So when he tried, he
became a very poor immitation.  Harrelson should have just been himself.

Gil Hodges was a quiet and imposing figure who ruled with an iron fist
in a velvet glove.  He was an imposing figure at over 6-feet and over
200 pounds (I think he was 6'3" and 220#) but was very quiet with a
strong, soft voice and a deliberate attitude.  Hodges, in the middle
of a game, trek out to left field to to his star hitter and ask him if
he was all right after the left fielder made less than an all out effort
to catch a fly ball only to take the the player out when the response
was the player was not injured (1969, Cleon Jones hit .340 for the
season and was escorted off the field by Hodges, trailing two steps
behind Hodges with his head bowed, all the way to the dugout).  It has
been reported that even at social occasions, Gil Hodges had a presence
that everyone around felt as he moved through a room.  Gil Hodges died
April 2, 1972, after suffering his third heart attack (he was playing
golf during the player's strike that year--I am NOT suggesting his death
and the strike are related).
-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Twins/Bo-Sox Game-8.......7/23/92 evening game
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:39:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19314
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo

Game-9 which promised some good pitching battle between the
Rocket and Erickson was washed out today and a double header
(games 8 & 9) will be held tomorrow.

With great dissappointment, I switched the TV off.......


S.H
Forever a Twins fan....
From: niccum@cs.umn.edu (Tom Niccum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:34:15 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In <1992Jul23.210507.22939@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:


>In article <1992Jul23.203649.24892@news2.cis.umn.edu> kimmel@epx.cis.umn.edu  
>(Eric Kimmel) writes:
> 
>> I have NEVER seen a single team practicing catching balls against the dome
>> backdrop.  If they felt it was that big of a deal, they'd be out there
>> working on it.

>I recall Gorman Thomas doing this back in '82.

>john rickert

I think that the roof used to be a worse problem when the MetroMuffin
was new.  Age has (this is my opinion anyway) darkened the ceiling
enough that the ball stands out reasonably well - at least from 
my perspective as a fan, this is the case. 

While I'm almost certain that I have seen cases of opposing teams
taking extra fly-ball practice in the dome (I believe that Atlanta
last year, and the Cardinals in 87 did this), I'm equally sure that
the majority of complaints lately have been about the positioning of the
lights - not the dome ceiling.  Maybe Lance or Dave Thornley could
correct me on this, but weren't the lights replaced in '88, or so?
I'm pretty sure that this is why most flyballs are lost.  I know
that I have a devil of a time tracking them as they pass through
a bank of lights.  

-Tom

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas M. Niccum  | Army High Performance Computing Research Center
niccum@cs.umn.edu | University of Minnesota
        	  | 612-626-8084 or 612-624-7807
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: 300/300 club (was Re: More on Big Frank)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:42:57 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

OK, here's the complete list of 300/300 players since 1940, to the best of
my knowledge.  It's a bit tricky, because a couple of them wouldn't make it
except for just enough HBP to put them over 300 times on base.  An entry of
"xxx+" under Times on Base indicates that I haven't bothered to dig up HBP
data for that season.

   Player/year	 	 TB	TOB
   -----------		---	---
Frank Thomas '91	309	316+
Wade Boggs '87		324	305+
Wade Boggs '85		312	316+
Rod Carew '77		351	308+
Carl Yastrzemski '70	335	314+
Pete Rose '69		321	306+
Harmon Killebrew '69	324	303
Norm Cash '61		354	326
Mickey Mantle '57	315	319+
Mickey Mantle '56	376	300+
Stan Musial '54		359	302
Stan Musial '53		361	305+
Ralph Kiner '51		333	303
Stan Musial '51		355	303+
Ted Williams '49	368	356+
Stan Musial '49		382	314+
Ted Williams '48	313	314+
Stan Musial '48		429	309+
Ted Williams '47	335	343+
Ted Williams '46	343	332+
Stan Musial '46		366	301+
Ted Williams '42	338	329+
Ted Williams '41	335	330+

Before 1940, 300/300 was achieved with monotonous regularity by Jimmy Foxx,
Lou Gehrig, Hank Greenberg, and Babe Ruth, with occasional seasons from Hack
Wilson and others.

The post-WW2 list is thus Ted Williams (6), Stan Musial (6), Mickey Mantle (2),
Wade Boggs (2), Ralph Kiner, Norm Cash, Harmon Killebrew, Pete Rose, Carl
Yastrzemski, Rod Carew, and Frank Thomas.

The nearest misses I could find were Pete Rose '76 (299 TB), Frank Robinson '62
(295 TOB), and Jackie Robinson '49 (297 TOB).

On the related question of players with more TOB than TB for a career, the
all-time champion appears to be Eddie Collins, with (4260,4809+) for his long
and distinguished career.  Among players with 2500+ TB, the highest TOB/TB
ratio I could find was Eddie Yost (2729,3477+).  Among players with 2500+ TOB,
I get Roy Thomas (1764,2579+).  The most balanced of the great players was
probably Rod Carew (3998,4071+).  For comparison, Brett Butler through last
season was (2107,2394).



-- 
        David Tate         |  "Complacencies of the fungo, and late 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   Infield and B.P. in a sunny field
     "Sunday Afternoon"    |   [...]         mingle to dissipate
  Wallace "Vern" Stevens   |   The holy hush of Pastime National..."
From: molly@uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves Fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:22:23 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Jul23.112608.1@acad3.alaska.edu> tssb@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>reIn article <1410@hades.hera.Sbi.Com>, jwhirley@zip.sbi.com (John Whirley) writes:
>> 
>> 	Yes, the Astros series was quite a let down after the Braves series.
>> My TBS "America's Superstation" is on the blink, please tell me how the Braves
>> are doing against the Mets.
>> 
>> 
>> 	Looks like I was in error in my reply.
>> 
>> 
>> 	Enjoy third place.
>> 
>> 				Yours truly,
>> 
>> 				A Reds fan
>
>
>
>
>  The Braves are now in first, where we will stay. Sorry.

you can say that again.  

mr
>                               A Braves fan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirchner@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Robert Kirchner)
Subject: Most fascinating ballpark?
Originator: kirchner@hphalle1b.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:59:36 GMT


Which is the most fascinating, most impressive ballpark for watching a ML-game?

Don't rank by home team, but criterias like noise made by cheering fans,
support when team plays not very well, show, entertainment before the game
starts and during breaks, music, architecture, tradition, ...


-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Robert Kirchner                         kirchner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
  Technical University Munich
  Bavaria, Germany
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------