HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: clever@turing.toronto.edu (Cathy Cleverley)
Subject: Re: Wrapping/linaments - do you use them?
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:09:11 GMT

>   ps: at the racing stable in GB, they never wrapped except actual
>   injuries (bows, etc.). This includes shipping -- these
>   million-dollar creatures hauled completely bare!!! My reaction to
>   this was an unqualified:
>
>      |||||
>       0 0
>   |
>      ( O )
>
>     But I never saw one horse come out of the van with a scratch.

We ship horses from Ontario to Kentucky and Florida regularly, as well
as back and forth to the track.  The only time we use wraps is on the
horses coming back and forth to the track.  This is mostly so that we can
say that any lumps and bumps they come up with in the next few days
*didn't* happen at the farm, and they didn't happen in transit.

Our trailer can be either six standing stalls (3 facing front, 3 facing
back) or any combination of box stalls and standing stalls.  When we ship
mares and foals, they go loose in a box stall arrangement.  We have
shipped weanlings and older horses.  The weanling was in a box stall, with
complete wall, and the older horses in standing stalls.       

It is actually quite funny to drive behind the trailer when a horse is
loose in the box stall.  I watched one mare do a complete turn and look
out the back window every time the trailer stopped at a stop light.  When
the truck started moving, she moved around again.  I guess that is the
ultimate in keeping balance.

(When I say "we" I am referring to Kingsbrook Farm in King Ontario.  This
is a breeding/racing stable with horses of all ages by such sires as Halo,
Alydar, Chief's Crown and Bold Ruckus to name a few.  We have horses
valued up to $500,000 - so safety and care are a major concern :-)

-- 
Cathy Cleverley		clever@turing.toronto.edu  or  clever@sequent.com
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Clasical seat Was: dressage bits
Date: 19 Nov 1992 01:38:29 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <1ebeviINNcbt@rave.larc.nasa.gov> patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
> [...]the USDF has never understood is that the rider's seat should be adjusted
> depending on the level of the horse. Steinbrecht understood this and wrote
> about it, but dressage authorities still insist on teaching
> "dressage equitation" to beginning riders on *green horses*
>
> [...]I completely agree that spurs should not be worn at the lower levels,
> not because of the rider, but because of the horse. The "classical seat"
> is only appropriate on a higher level horse, as Steinbrecht wrote, and
> it is only the classical seat that allows refined use of the spur. (again,
> take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended - as a 
> discussion regarding his text. Am I misinterpreting what he said/ where
> does my reasoning go wrong/ or where is my reasoning right?
 

First, I haven't read Steinbrecht, does someone have a reference?

What do you mean by the "classical seat" and how should it be 
modified on younger horses?s

As an event-oriented rider, I use about a 6-hole range of stirrup
lengths in my all-purpose saddle, and I will, when I'm fit,
go a hole or two longer in a dressage saddle.  So, I adjust my stirrup
length to suit the activity.  As I have also been taught not to do
a whole lot of sitting trot or deep-seat canter work on young/green
horses which haven't yet got enough strength in their backs,
I do tend to ride a little shorter on them, and I do most of
my trot work rising, and I use a modified (two-point, half, jumping)
seat for the canter work.  But, I still use basically the same
"seat", it just adjusts over a continous range.  I can effectively
use spurs (or NOT use them) over the whole range.  Granted,
at a cross-country length, my leg isn't going to MOVE all that
much... at least, I hope not!

Is this really unusual?  You don't see a whole lot of variation
in seat in horses being shown at Dressage shows, it's true, but
most horses showing at Training Level these days, at least out
here, aren't really that green.  They are often showing a second
or third level frame.  The tests require the rider do virtually
all trot work sitting by Training Level, Test 3...

Are there other issues?

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rudy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (avram.r.vener)
Subject: Re: Retraining a gated Morgan
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:07:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.234042.27278@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims) writes:
>There is also one strong school of thought on the question of
>"who was Justin Morgan's dam?" that holds she was a Narragansett PACER,
>a breed common in the northeast at the end of the 18th century.
>

  Wasn't Justin Morgan the man (a colonial schoolteacher I think) whose 
horse began the Morgan line?  If so than his dam was Mrs. Morgan :-)


--
Rudy Vener uucp: att!mtqua!rudy  internet: rudy@mtqua.att.com
From: kloomis@cco.caltech.edu (Kate E. Loomis)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horsey DinnerTheatres, what I saw
Date: 17 Nov 1992 23:13:04 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

jespah@carson.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:

>In article <92322.29954.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>>Speaking of Walter Farley and the Black Stallion books, has anyone else
>>ever wondered how the heck they got an Arabian Stallion in the Kentucky
>>Derby? ;-) Aw, artistic license. Of course, I think Walter was only 17
>>when he wrote his first book in the late 30's. Great stuff though!

>Well, let's see, the Black Stallion himself was described as being "too
>big to be pure Arab" in the book.  Also, not only wasn't he a registered
>Thoroughbred, but he didn't have any Arabian papers either since he was
>essentially "found" loose in the ocean, and his handlers all drowned.  In
>the book they said something like "In a match race, any horse can run 
>whether or not they have papers," and *luckily* there just *happened* to
>be a match race between "Cyclone from the East and Sun Raider from the West!!"
>(I love that phrase!)  It wasn't the Kentucky Derby.  (Though I think the
>Black's filly, Black Minx, won the Derby in some later book.  Or was that
>Satan, the Black's colt?) ...  Does anyone know if that's true about
>match races, or did Farley just make it up for the book?  He certainly

stuff deleted

>Kathleen

I'm pretty sure that match races at least _used_ to occur in real life.
Didn't Seabiscuit participate in some fancy, wildly hyped race at one
point in his life? I thought Ruffian died in a match race. I haven't
really heard of them anymore - there is so much big money in racing
that match races aren't held anymore?

Kate
From: jen187@mis.csiro.au (Graham Jenkins +61 6 276 6812)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Just bought first horse
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:36:58 GMT
Organization: CSIRO ITS

In article <dlambert.921112143707@eng.auburn.edu> dlambert@eng.auburn.edu (Dave Lambert) writes:

>I thought I would just share the fact that I just bought
>my first horse.  Sam is a 14 yr. old TB (15.2 hh) gelding and I'm
>about as happy as can be.  I've been riding other people's

Congratulations on getting your first horse. (Also, welcome to
the world of poverty :-)  ). Treat him well and enjoy.



-- 

|  Graham Jenkins          |  graham.jenkins@its.csiro.au           | 
|  CSIRO                   |  (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial | 
|  Canberra,  AUSTRALIA    |  Research Organisation)                |
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: gnd@idaho.amdahl.com (Greg Darnell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Dutch warmblood filly for sale
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:53:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corp., Rexburg, ID

Krayola - 1992 foal book filly by Rampal out of ISR main mare book
TB mare.  Very correct and elegant (also cute and very feminine).
Superb gaits.  Will be gray.  Should make an excellent dressage horse
and/or broodmare.  Located in Idaho.  Loads, clips, ties, etc, has
had plenty of handling.  $7500.

Call Joan Darnell (208) 356-0627, or email me for more info.

-- 
 Greg Darnell    Amdahl Corporation    143 N. 2 E., Rexburg, Idaho 83440
  UUCP:{ames,decwrl,sun,uunet}!amdahl!tetons!gnd          (208) 356-8915
  INTERNET: gnd@idaho.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rudy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (avram.r.vener)
Subject: Entirely New Subject (was: dressage bits)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:16:36 GMT

In article <1eertgINNiva@gap.caltech.edu> deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine) writes:
>In article <1ebf4nINNcc4@rave.larc.nasa.gov> patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
>
>However, you can only adjust the balance so far before you automatically
>get a change in frame, which, as it progresses, becomes collection.
>No?
>
I give up. I was hoping to pick up the meaning just by reading or
when someone else asked, but apparently this is something so basic
and well understood that EVERYONE knows what it is...except me...

What is collection?

(And every other question which the above implies...)

--
Rudy Vener uucp: att!mtqua!rudy  internet: rudy@mtqua.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horseless Rider Needs Directions
From: <KROBIN@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 16 Nov 1992 09:41:19 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

I was a boarder for many years.  When I first got into horses I actually
benefited from being in the boarding environment because I was learning
so much.  I boarded from l969 to l986, then I bought my own place.  One
benefit is that your horses environment is under your direct control, within
$ limits.  I like being able to go check on my horses any time.  I love walking
into my barn each morning before dawn and hearing my horses greet me (actually
they are greeting their breakfast, but I like to fool myself :^)).  I like
setting my alarm clock each hour on the hour when I have a mare due to foal
and be able to stagger out to the barn in my PJ's, take a peek and then go
back to bed without driving 20 minutes one way.  I like the fact that no one
on this place thinks a stallion is a fire-breathing monster and that my
sweet boy gets to be a real horse with his own paddock and maximum outside
time.
 
With all of this also goes the fact that the fence in the pasture is YOURS,
the pasture (good or bad, and fixable$) is yours, water source problems are
yours, the tool box full of tools to fix stalls, lights, hooks, etc. are
yours, too.  Good thing I like doing those kinds of things...sigh.
 
I miss the daily interaction with people who are all at the same place,
at roughly the same time, for the same purpose.  People from all walks
of life, with widely diverse careers, with lives different or the same
as yours....all in barn jeans and boots cleaning stalls, grooming horses,
riding, talking 'horse' for hours on a nice spring day.  I don't miss
it bad enough to board again, tho.
 
I consider my years as a board as years of invaluable learning.  I would
not have wanted to pass it up, however if my boarding situation hadn't been
so sweet the last ten years, I'd have sure pushed to have my own place.
 
As with all things in life, there are advantages and disadvantages for any
choice you make.  The thing is to make the best of whatever situation you
find yourself in and make the situation the best it can be for your horse(s).
 
Kathie Robinson
Teela Lee (who'd better be PG or she's going on a diet)
Sissy (who's due any day)
Comanche (who only breaths good three months a year, this is one of them)
Gus (who's wintered up so thick he doesn't look roan anymore)
Tucker and Rosie (the hounds from hell)
the mouse squad (5 worthless cats who idolize Garfield)
From: broberts@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (broberts)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: help with immature arabian
Date: 20 Nov 1992 16:27:08 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

hi.. i think this is the first time i have posted to this group but
anyway.. i have an arabian mare who is sweet enough but because i am
in college i havnt had enough time to keep working with her as much as
she needs.. she has picked up a bad habit.. when we are done working
out and i am taking the bridle off, she clenches her teeth so that the
bit clanks around in her mouth and this scares her so she starts
jumping around and usually ends up breaking a piece of tack or a
person.. to temporarily solve the problem i have at least one other
person help me so that one person can keep her head down, one hold the
bridle up even when its pulled over her ears and one to stick their
finger in her mouth so that she will open it long enough to take the
bit out.. i was wondering if anyone out there hass experienced this
before. i also just thought that maybe getting a rubber bit would
help.. 

another thing i was wondering about is, those of you who have arabs..
how do your horses react to new things.. mine becomes a ball of taught
muscles and wont relax until at least a few minutes later when she has
discovered that it wont eat her.. i know its not because she was ever
mistreated because i have had her since she was halter broke.. she is
a really sweet horse and likes people but she is stupid a lot.. it
makes me scared to take her out of our property.. i love trail riding
but if she wont enjoy it, it wont be any fun for me.

thanks for any reply.
-jen
From: jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Cold Back
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:20:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia

I need some advice.  I tried out a horse on Sat--16h, 5yo
Appendix QH.  He has only been ridden about 20 times, 
mostly spending time just standing out in a pasture.  The
owner said that he was somewhat "cold backed".  When whe
got on, he jigged a little and humped up his back a little.
I have never had any experience with a cold-backed horse.
My question is--Do they ever get over this?  If not, is it]
a serious problem.  I'm going to take him home this week
and try him out over T'giving. The price is right and my
wife is a trainer so I can get all the help I need, but
I don't want to constantly be worried about gettin bucked
off. 
--
Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu
804-924-7409
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Black Stallion (was Horsey Dinner Theatres...)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 19:44:36 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <Nov19.164744.67554@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> meridiem@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jill Engel) writes:

>I think The Black Stallion has to be one of the most beautiful movies made.
>The director (Carroll Ballard (?), I think, my album is at home)
 I believe the director was Francis Ford Coppola.  He was feeling down
in the dumps about recent lack of success, and his wife talked him
into making this little gem of a movie to make him feel better.

> There's a question, why
>do the lower levels of competition and pleasure ownership seem to
>be female dominated, yet the Grand Prix levels are even or even male-
>dominated?  What's the theory behind this?

I imagine it's the same reason that most women cook for their
families, but most well-paid chefs are male.  When the position is
compensated monetarily and valued, women get crowded out.  Look at
academia, where the grad student bodies are 50% female but the faculty
are less than 10% female.  Ah, but that's getting off the subject of this
newsgroup, sorry!

-Sarah Pallas (sole female member of my faculty!)
 


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: neilson@osf.org (Peter Neilson)
Subject: Keeping down the smell
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:25:23 GMT

Recently we were talking to our neighbours about various things, and
they said how nice it was not to have the horses around, because the
smell had been so bad.  WELL, we said, WHY DIDN'T YOU EVER TELL US
BEFORE, SO WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING?  Oh, they were being too
polite or something.  We explained that it was up to them to tell us
if there was a problem, because we couldn't smell horses because we
lived with them too closely.

So, what are your favourite ways of keeping your stable and barnyard
free of smells?  Manure pile placement?  More frequent cleanout?
Special bedding techniques?  Magic Stink-No-More Powder, ten and
sixpence the box, not available since the end of Victoria's reign?  (I
made this up, don't hunt your old catalogues for it.  But is there
some such product?)  Haul manure away daily?  Bury it under sand or
ash or something?  Dump it in the neighbour's yard so he'll get used
to the smell faster?  SELL it to gardners at a steep price?  Buy all
neighbours a year's supply of clothespins?

My neighbours await your suggestions with 'bated breath.
-- 
      "Pragmatism would be fine, except that it doesn't work."
             >>>  Peter Neilson  --- neilson@osf.org  <<<

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: rewald@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Winter Pasture Care
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:51:03 GMT

> In article <18NOV199208491326@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>, 
             broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) writes:
> (Much stuff deleted)
>> I feed big round
>> bales all winter in a 3 acre lot, so the horses get a little running around
>> room even in the winter.

In article <1992Nov18.190311.24144@piston.detroit.ingr.com>, 
            ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick) writes:
> I don't meant this as a flame, but I was under the impression that feeding
> horses round bales is not especially healthy for them. The barn where my horse
> (more stuff deleted)
> over this practice. They are notorious for mold, which can upset the digestive
> tracts of some horses. I believe round bales are meant for cows who do not
> seem to be as sensitive.
> Has anybody else found this to be true?

   We feed round bales when the pasturage gets thin, but with as many horses as
we have where I board, I don't think the hay gets a chance to mold.  We get a 
weekly delivery, and there is never any of the previous bale left (we have to
feed out regular bales sometimes toward the end of the week).  It occurred to
me that maybe you meant the hay started out mouldy, but since so much of
Maryland is "horse country", I think the round bales start out as good quality 
hay.  We've not had any problems, anyway.
   (Pat is right about cows tolerating lower quality hay; one of my co-workers
was a hay farmer in Florida.  As she got less help in the haying operation,
she switched her market from horse-quality hay to cow-quality.)

Rosalie
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: "allan coganovitch" <allan.coganovitch@canrem.com>
Subject: western saddle for sale
Reply-To: "allan coganovitch" <allan.coganovitch@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:45:08 EST

Western Small Pony Saddle for Sale - (Private Sale - No Tax) - 11/21/92

* Excellent Condition - Hardly Used *

Black Tooled Leather - $300

To be picked up in Burlington, Ontario

Serious inquiries only.

Please leave a message in this conference or call:
Toronto (416) 777-9516  Hamilton (416) 570-8763
Burlington (416) 333-9272
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,news.groups
From: brandyt@microsoft.com (Brandy Thorp)
Subject: Re: rec.equestrian.racing
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:14:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

I vote YES for rec.equestrian.racing.  

Yes, I agree with all the horse people that say racing can be cruel.
But to say "All racing is cruel, and I don't want any part of it,
nor do I want it associated with my hobbie" is to doom the sport
into getting farther and farther away from what most hobbiest
would consider OK.

Racing does lots of good for the horse world.  When a horse is
worth several million dollars, you will spend several thousand
to do right by him.  So health research, treatments and husbandry
all are advanced by this sport, and that carries over to help
the $500 much-loved nag in the back yard.

I don't mean to imply that there are not things that IMHO need
to be changed.  If it were up to me, no horse would be raced 
before they were 4 years old, or older!  Pain blocking drugs
would be banned on race day, etc.

In England, there is quite a movement to block Fox Hunting.
In the US, there is none.  Experts think it is because of
the huge difference in attitude between the hunters in
these two countries.  In England most people think that
it is cruel, In the US they think it is just another hobbie.

I can't help but wonder if enough horse people got envolved
with racing and really interated with racing fans, we couldn't
shift an attitude or two...

That would be a very good thing...

..brandyt. 
  and Pajtas, who comes from a long line of racing TB's, but
  was never raced himself.

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Retraining a gated Morgan
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 21:52:53 GMT

Original post in part was :
>I have a wonderful Morgan Gelding...he's 8 years old, he is wonderful on
>trails and with the kids...he is (what my instructor calls) gaited...
>I have been taking English/Dressage lessons for about 2 years now and would
>like to do some shows...my question is...
>  Can my gaited Morgan be retrained at 8 years old to do a diagonal trot? Is
>it worth the work he will have to do to learn something he was previously
>possibly bred and trained to do?  Is it worth the money I must spend to have
>a trainer work with him...with the odds against her?
>  Any knowledge or enlightenment would be greatly appreciated...we really
>love this horse the way he is...but it would be nice to be able to show as
>well.
>  Thanks!!
>
>  kallen@novell.com

Hi,

I have Morgans and have been a fan for many years (doesn't mean I know
everything by a long shot!!! ;-) ). However, I've NEVER seen a Morgan
that wasn't born with a STRONG trot. They were bred for many years to be
trotters.

I've heard of Morgans who rack and/or have a kind of running walk similar
to a Tennessee Walker (but not as pronounced), they've all had a trot as
well.

Could you explain for me a little more about what you mean by "gaited"?

Thanks,
Diane, Spring & Dancer (who both trot like the wind!)
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Retraining a gated Morgan
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:58:05 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov19.002727.2027@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims) writes:
>A fair number of Morgans turn up with a pronounced tendancy
>to be "lateral-gaited".  Overwhelmingly, this means that they
>pace.  Racking, slow-gait, fox trot, singlefoot, etc. almost
>never appear, except as a pace gone off-balance (going downhill,
>for example). [...]

I used to occasionally ride a Morgan eventer (competed to Intermediate)
who would, when excited, sometimes pace rather than walk.  His trot
was fine.

Lateral work would often break up the pace and restore the walk.
I think it is hard to pace and do a shoulder-in at the same time.
Circles also seemed to discourage pacing.  However, this was a 
horse with 3 good gaits who occasionally lapsed.

For what it's worth...

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu