HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Specialized WTB saddle?
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:30:21 GMT
Reply-To: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.tech, chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler) writes:
>portion looked like it would be easy to slide off of for more control
>on REALLY steep descents.)

I looked at this saddle (Hudson Trail Outfitters) and it did seem longer
but not really much narrower than other typical saddles (like Turbo).
If you want narrow, order the Bontrager steel-railed saddle from Performance
for $40 (after-Christmas sale).  The way this saddle is cut off at the
sides and then narrowed some more towards the back, it is _really_ easy
to get off the back and then _back_on_.   (I like it.)

David Mackintosh
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 15:45:28 EST
From: Jon Carr <IO91748@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Trek 2000 or Composite ??

In article <93012.105419CTB103@psuvm.psu.edu>, CTB103@psuvm.psu.edu (Chad
Burkins) says:
>
>Hi,
>  I recently had a dispute with a local Trek dealer, and to settle
>the dispute, he has offerred to replace my Trek 1100 frame with
>a Trek 2000 frameset for free, or replace it with a Composite Trek
>frame for $200.  As I'm still a newbie to the road biking scene,
>I was wondering if I might solicit some advice.  Money is a bit
>tight right now, but I may be able to swing the $200.  As I understand it,
>the Trek 2000 is the best Aluminum Frameset that Trek made, but a
>Composite bike would be a bit stronger and a bit lighter.  But is it
>worth the $200 ?? Any help would be a appreciated.

Chad -
TREK has not manufactured a "2000" frameset for quite a few years.  The
frame itself has not changed much.  They have however, changed materials
slightly.  If I am correct, the original 2000 used Easton's 6061-T6 where
the new 1400 (highest all-alloy bike) uses Easton's E9 tubing (a heat and
acid treated variant of their 7075-T7 stuff).  The 7075 aluminum is a litle
stronger than the 6061 stuff, and more resiliant (higher elastic modulus)
so it absorbs road shock better.  Not all that noticeable if you don't
have and stress guages with you while you ride.

The carbon bikes are a diferent story alltogether.  If you can get the
$200 bucks in such a way that your not eating dog food for six months,
do it.  TREK's carbon stuff is VERY nice.  The only other carbon bike
I've seen as nice as TREK's is the Allez Epic from SPECIALIZED.  TREK
does a very good job with their carbon fiber bikes.  A good freind of
mine just got himself a new OCLV 5500, very nice indeed.

BTW - if your TREk dealer gives you any greif, call TREK.  The don't
like to see their customers get the shaft.  I've seen them warantee
stuff that shouldn't be covered.  TREK is a good company.  I've had
a few of their bikes and have NO complaints.

    -----> Jon                                   Jon Carr
    -----> IO91748@MAINE.BITNET                  36 Forest Ave
    -----> IO91748@MAINE.MAINE.EDU               Orono, ME 04473
    How about those 21-0-1 Black Bears!!!  M-A-I-N-E GO BLUE!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Tthhppuuuttt Ack)
Subject: Re: Frame alignment check
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:38:06 GMT

In article <????> ??? writes:
>It seems that a rear wheel not perfectly centered in the dropouts will 
>also result in the wheel wandering out of the path of the front wheel, 
>regardless of frame alignment.  Or am I missing something?

But its interesting to note that I have spent thousands of km on bikes 
which had wheels that were 1/8" offset.  In fact so have most of my
friends.  Nobody ever noticed anything.  Not during training, crits, TTs
or road races over several years.
  I would not worry about the bike not tracking straight.  The only thing
that I have ever managed to do to get a bike not track straight without
the hands on the bars was to use a front wheel that was offset with studs.
However, having the axle angled can do wonders for shortening its life.
But don't worry about fractions of a mm or even a mm or two when aligning
frames or wheels.
  Maby the offset is causing some wheel drag and that could be the reason 
that not all of us have made it to Cat I  ;-)
  - Eric 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Computers: High Speed Readings
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 00:29:40 GMT

In article <P.Etheridge-080193100435@130.123.3.69> news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System) writes:
>I have read a number of articles in the past about people getting
>rediculously high speed readings on their cycle computers.  I can't
>remember whether or not the problem was confined to Cateye computers, but
>it happened to my Cateye last night.
>
>At speeds of over approximately 30 km/h (20 mph) the speed showed roughly
>double the actual speed.  I finally remembered that the sensor had been
>moved when the bike was in the back of my car, and noticed that the magnet
>passed by a lot closer than it used to.  The solution was to increase the
>clearance between the magnet and sensor slightly, to between 1-2 mm.

I don't think the sensor being closer is what caused the inaccurate reading;
at least it shouldn't have.  If the magnet is close enough, the computer will
pick it up and use it to calculate the speed.  If it's not, it won't, and 
you'll either get a speed reading of 0 or something less than your real speed
(if it only picks it up some of the time).  I don't think it's possible for
the magnet's location to cause the computer to think the magnet passed by the
sensor more frequently than it actually did because it the magnet was too 
close.

BTW, I can't remember an instance when I ever got an artificially high reading
from a Cateye.  My Avocet occasionally tells me I did a descent (or maybe even
a scorching climb!) at 80 mph or so.  I know of at least 3 other people who
get these mega-speed readings on Avocets.  I probably get one of these spurious
readings 10% of the time on my Avocet.

Bill
From: sbixby@cup.portal.com (Steven W Bixby)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: measuring chain wear?
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 10:20:36 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>According to "Bicycle Maintenance and Repair", it's time to replace a chain
>when 12 links measure 12 1/8 inches.  A moment's thought tells me this is
>(approximately) equivalent to 1 percent "stretch".

Errrr.....  Since almost all the links are 1/2" long now...  Is this
12 links grows to 6 1/8" or 24 links to 12 1/8"?

:-)
  -swb-
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:59:26 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan11.162518.2462@bmerh85.bnr.ca> paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
> I run a full Shimano DX package (with RF - sorry 
>Terry but I like them ;)  ).  I noticed a subjective 85-90% improvement 
>from the Exage 400LX on my previous bike.  
	WHERE have you noticed the improvement?  Do things just work better?
Or are they just lighter?  I'm really curious!!!

>What component group do you currently ride?
>
	I built up my GT Talera with 300LX, mainly because it was cheap,  I
DO NOT race, the frame is very heavy to begin with so weight is not a main
concern, and the frame is pretty cheap and didn't warrant spending the extra
money for a better group. Incidentally, the hubs are LX, and the brakes are
200GS (original equip., but I want to change to Diacompe someday, and get an
XT rear U-brake)!  The shifters are some low-level Rapidfire, and work fine.
If I ever do get new brake levers, I plan to keep these, as these RF shifters
are INDEPENDENT of the brake levers.  Each clamps to the bars with separate 
metal bands. 
>
>What other groups have you ridden/up/degraded from?
>
	I have ridden friends' bikes equipped with LX and LX/DX mix, but only
for a few spins around the block.
>
>What is your opinon of the % increase/decrease in ride quality?
>
	No noticeable increase, other than lighter weight/better finish.
>
> "    "   "      "   "    "     "        "      "   durability?
>
	Not applicable, as I have not ridden these bikes much.  I CAN say, 
however, that I ride everywhere my friends ride, and my bike has held up at
least as good as any other bike, regardless of the group.
>
>
>Let's try to leave the looks of components as it is totally 
>subjective.  Is there anything else that I've missed in the above?
>
>
>Cheers...Stuart


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                                O   
University of Pittsburgh                           _ /__,     
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu          (_) /(_) 
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!           			   "Why am I so late?  It took me 
					    25 minutes to decide which bike
					    to ride!"--me. 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke)
Organization: Private Site in Berlin
Subject: Re: Sach-Maillard Aris Freewheel 7 spd S
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 13:00:00 +0100
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v2.1 R/211
X-Gateway: ZCONNECT UI bi-link.owl.de [RFC/Connect IIIb DOS v0.46]


On 03.01.93, H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de writes:

 >Sachs 7speed is spaced 7*5mm. 

6*5 mm, as you all understood.  :-)

Late-Night-Hajo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:47:33 GMT

From article <C0LF4K.MEL@cs.uiuc.edu>, by tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel):
>
> [ ... ]
>
> an unfortuante trend in the industry.  However it does leave an
> opening for Suntour who has the brains to come out with a new cheaper
> group (Expert) that is chromed.
> -Terry
> -- 
> -Terry

Chromed? Are you certain?  Chrome plating is usually used to protect steel
from rust; chromium is also a hard metal (and quite heavy.)  Are you sure
that the components are not simply polished?

Dave

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: you@taligent.com (Lawrence You)
Subject: Asymmetry in Cranks (was: Frame alignment check)
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:43:20 GMT

All this talk about frames out of alignment made me think of something I've
been meaning to ask for a while: on most bikes, isn't there a larger
distance between the frame's center and the right pedal than the left side?
 That is, aren't the right cranks almost always larger than the left ones?

And if so, why?  Is it more important to have a smaller Q-factor
(horizontal distance between pedals) than to have symmetrical cranks? 
(Presumably, the right crank is as "thin" as it can get and the left one
can be as wide, but always seems to be narrower.)

Of course, I don't notice the difference when I ride, but I'm curious
anyway.

-Lawrence

you@taligent.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mpb@nomad.JPL.NASA.gov (Michael Batchelder)
Subject: Re: Which chain tool?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:55:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.112215.27572@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, pcbk1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (bryan.s.katz) writes:
|>   Tired of cleaning my chain on the bike, I'm thinking of taking it off
|>   every little while (3-500 miles) and clean it.    Does this make sense?
|>   If so, which of the chain tools should I get?  I see that if I want to,  
|>   I can spend upwards of $80 or as low as $10-$20.  Any advice?
|> 
|>   b.katz
|>   "no disclaimer yet"

The type (not brand) of chain tool you need is determined by the
kind of chain you have.  If you have a Shimano HG (HyperGlide) chain,
of which all Shimano chains are as of a few years ago, or another
brand that has similar link shape, then you should buy an HG compatible
chaintool.  At issue is whether the links are flat across, or have a
raised portion (the case w/ HG and like chains).  The HG style chain
tools will have a raised portion where the link is held/pressed
to accomodate the shape of the link, pressuring the proper place, the
older or flat style chain tool will not.  Rivoli makes a good ~$10
tool for both styles.  The HG style is gold colored, the non HG silver.
This should do you nicely, w/o having to spend $80 on an overpriced
shop-quality tool that you don't need.  Oh, and don't buy the Official
Shimano tool. (Yes, I am being opinionated.  Please, if someone wants
to flame me, do it factually; don't take it as a personal attack and
fill my mbox w/ nasty messages.)  This thing costs more than double
the Rivoli, and has a lifespan, in my humble experience, of about 10
seconds.  I've seen three break under no unusual conditions, one was
right out of the package.

Pls. feel free to email me if this is unclear.

Michael
mpb@nomad.jpl.nasa.gov 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer)
Subject: Re: B. Rohloff on Rohloff chains
    <1992Dec30.232558.25858@news.columbia.edu> 
    <1993Jan4.150825.164@chpc.utexas.edu>
Reply-To: jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Organization: University of Tokyo / Object Technology International
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:49:33 GMT
X-Bytes: 449

In article <1993Jan4.150825.164@chpc.utexas.edu> ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold) writes:

 >> I'm not really sure I can picture what a trochoide is, can any one else give
 >> another description.  What is a gateau?  Thanks.
 >
 >Gateau is French for cake.  I guess  Americans would use pie instead.

Alternatively, trochoide is sorta like the radiation symbol :-)
Gee which would Americans use? ;->
--
ato de, |m        -- Death by stereo!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold)
Subject: Re: B. Rohloff on Rohloff chains
Summary: let them eat gateau
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 15:08:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.232558.25858@news.columbia.edu>, adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez) writes:
> In article <4sR891frv4@bi-l003.bi-link.owl.de> H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke) writes:
> >
> >chains do have non round holes! The exact shape of the holes is
> >called trochoide which you can create by deviding a round gateau
> >in three parts (of 120 degree) and then moving them a little bit
> >away from the center and connecting the circle periphery with
> >three tangent lines.
> 
> I'm not really sure I can picture what a trochoide is, can any one else give
> another description.  What is a gateau?  Thanks.

Gateau is French for cake.  I guess  Americans would use pie instead.
> 
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Manifold                                              University of Texas 
ezag637@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu                           College of Engineering
tasc637@crovax.cem.utexas.edu                       Center for Electromechanics
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: Re: Spokes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:06:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.092619@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de> sperzel@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (markus sperzel) writes:
>2) Ricardo's front wheel missed some spokes. I'm not sure, but I think he
>   spoked a 36 hole hub with only 24 spokes (type describbed above). Every
>   third spoke missed. (To make sure: I asked him aout this and he said, that
>   he spoked it that way)
>   Has anybody out there any experience with a wheel spoked this way?
>   What would be the best way to spoke a wheel like this (How many
>   crossings , what hubs, what rims etc.)?
>   Would this be o.k. for somebody who weights 70 - 75 kg?

I responded to this in rec.sport.triathlon.  In summary, I discussed having
a rear wheel like this built by one of the owners of Wheelsmith.  He said it
would be no problem, and I weigh a little more than 75 kg.  The wheel 
would have a 36 hole Ultegra 8-speed hub, bladed spokes, and a 24 hole
Sun Mistral aero-section clincher rim.  Radial lacing on the nondrive side
and 2-cross on the drive side.

Sean
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Help! Trickle-charging a gel-cell?
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:29:57 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <1993Jan12.163316.29715@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>In article <C0qrzH.M2M@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>, praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
>|> 
>|> You can build a simple charger with an old DC power supply
>|> and a LM317 Voltage regulator.  Unfortunately I am not
>|> handy with ascii drawings so I will refrain from including a circuit.
>
>Just in case you don't find it elsewhere here's the rough idea.
>
>Lead Acid battery charger (from Horowitz and Hill:)
>
>
>                         LM317T       0R2
>                         +-----+     ------
>          Vi o-----+-----|i a o|-----|    |----+-------o  Vo
>                 + |     +-----+     ------    |
>           1000uF ===       |                 | |
>            elec   |        |                 | | R1
>                   |        |                  |
>                   |        +------------------|
>                   |                           |
>                   |                          | |
>                   |                          | | R2
>                   |                           |
>                   |                           |
>           0 o-----+---------------------------+-------o
>
>
>The LM317T tries to maintain 1.5v between the adjust and output
>terminals.  With the simple resistor divider network shown:
>
>
>        Vo = 1.5(1 + R2/R1)
>
>The adjust terminal draws a minimal 50-100 uA.
>
>They add a 0.2 ohm resistor in line, presumably as some current
>limit ?

Not exactly.

Instead of

  Vo = 1.5(1 + R2/R1)

it's

  Vo = (1.5 - Io * 0R2) * (1 + R2/R1)

where 0R2 was probably a type ofr "0.2" but i'm using it as a designation, and
i am assuming that R1 and R2 are large enough to draw much less current than
the load.

-dk
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:39:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Wheel Wonderings
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Christ Ward writes:

> Do the spokes fail at the bend?  If so do you think the problem
> would occur with straight (i.e. Pulsar ala BMW) spokes?  Not that
> I can aford to buy new wheels right now...

Spoke failure while tightening usually occurs at the weakest
torsional cross section.  In the swaged spoke this is at one end of
the swaged section and for aero spokes at the transition between
round and the flattened part.  The flattened spokes have so little
torsional strength that for even moderate tension, the spoke must be
held with pliers to prevent rotation.  They cannot be made as tight
as round spokes because pliers cannot hold the spoke without damage
at the necessary torque.

That aero spokes work adequately is not surprising when many wheels
in use are built with substantially lower tension that optimal.
Optimal trnsion for a wheel is when the spokes are about as tight as
the rim can withstand because the wheel can support loads only until
the bottom spokes become slack.  Of course being a little low on
tension is not so much a cause for catastrophic failure as it is for
gradual loss of wheel alighment.  A spoke that becomes momentarily
loose, will allow the nipple to unscrew a little at a time.  This is
the cause of the classic wheel that won't stay true even after
several trips to the shop.  It is most often too loose.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: MBA LX review.
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:18:32 GMT

craigb@sdd.hp.com (Craig Bosworth) writes:
>Despite the painted components, MBA did say that LX is "the best mid
>priced component group ever made."

Right they did.  I guess $800 bike are what passes for mid-priced these
days.  Except for the MB-3 with Deore DX. ;)

>I don't mean to start a war here or anything, but why are some people
>so put off by painted components?  Sure, they get trashed looking
>after a few rides (mine did), but cosmetics aren't that important to
>me.
>Just wondering...
>Craig Bosworth  (619) 592-8609
>Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
>craigb@sdd.hp.com

If it was a cheapo bike that would be one thing but an $800+ bike?  Nope.
I want the bike and components to last alot longer than that. It's true this
is not as important on a mountain bike since it will get trashed pretty
quickly anyway but it looks like the quality of the LX materilas have also been
compromised to save cost. So not only will they lokk crappy sooner they will
wear out sooner.  I just don't see it as a big enough improvement over DX
to justify the extra cost and loss of durability.  You know what's really
ridiculous IMHO are the Altus bikes with suspension that we're starting to
see. What's the durability of these things like?  It looks like you could
break them with your fingers.  The question is how much of this is
marketing driven?  If Bridgestone can afford to put out $800 bikes with
DX then why can't the others?  The yen rate hasn't changed from last year 
so that's not the answer.  Is it because Shimano want's to keep introducing
new stuff? 
-Terry


-- 
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: wide-range gearing
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 23:09:07 GMT

karplus@cse.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus) writes:
>[SunTour microdrive has a wide gearing range, more than 5:1.
> Who is expected to buy this setup?]

Mountain bike racers.

>[The low gear seems too low.]

About a decade ago, _Bike Tech_ had an article by David Gordon Wilson
in which he analyzed power curves for humans walking hills and cyclists
riding up hills.  His conclusion was cycling up a hill was often more
efficient than walking the bike up the hill, but you needed a low (15")
gear to be able to do it.

I don't know how this paper analysis works always in practice, but
mountain bike racers do routinely use very low gears on steep climbs.
That indicates that the low gears are, in fact, useful.

		;-D on  ( Gruntwork )  Pardo