HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:14:24 GMT

gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:

>I would welcome such a wish.  My own attitude about wishing everyone a Merry 
>Christmas is that the love and warmth Christians especially associate with
>it is for everyone, without condition.

Unfortunately, for many Jews, Chrismas and Easter are associated with
the remembrance that both were especially popular times for pogroms,
which makes it difficult to associate them with love and warmth.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: carroll@bifur.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Messianic Judiasm
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:14:08 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark

In article <9212151709.AA04222@relay2.UU.NET> johnson@itzb.com writes:
>
>It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
>break Shabbos.  Now 3 movements support it.
>

Nope. No movement supports breaking Shabbat. We just have differing 
interpretations of what it means to work on Shabbat.

>It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
>intermary.  Now one movement (or is it two?)
>supports it.

*No* movement supports intermarriage. All acknowledge that it happens,
and deal with it in different ways. *No* movement supports it or
condones it.

>It is still inconceivable to most that a Jew
>would believe in Yeshu ben Dovid HaMelech.  But
>youve decided that anything else goes, and so
>will this soon.  Give it a few more years and
>we'll be Jews just like the rest of you!

No one has said "anything goes". Our fundamental beliefs remain
Jewish, not Christian. That will never change. You are not a Jew, and
will never be considered one by any real Jew. You're a Christian, and
any honest person, Jewish or Christian or anything else will not call
you anything but Christian. Your beliefs are *not* Jewish; your
interpretations have *nothing* to do with Judaism, and you are *not* a
practicing Jew.

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"I prize the cloudy, tearing sky,
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| for the thoughts that flap and fly.
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || For staying in and reading by.
|| carroll@udel.edu             || For sitting under" -Karen Peris
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Date: 12 Dec 1992 01:29:23 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1gaoa6INNlj0@coral.bucknell.edu> () writes:
>is it a valid JEWISH concept that the death of a righteous person will
>expiate the sins of an entire generation,and if so,where does scripture
>affirm such aprinciple
>

I've never heard of it. Do you have a source?

Jack F. Love
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: looking for a Dutch - Hebrew Tanach
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:19:39 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <9212150246.AA28181@halibut.nosc.mil> <mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)> writes:
>
>I'd like to purchase a Dutch - Hebrew Tanach (Bible) as a gift.
>If anyone owns one and can give me the publisher's name, or has an idea of 
>where to get one, please drop me a line.

The best source for these sorts of requests is the American Bible
Society in New York. I don't happen to have their address or phone
handy, but that info is fairly easy to come by. Even if they don't
stock the item themselves, I've had good luck in the past getting a
lead from them.

The American Bible Society is a relatively *non-intrusive*
Christian evangelical organization. They stock a wide variety
of good texts and sell them at or near cost. For example,
it has been an excellent source for many years for the 
Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (the best edition of TaNaKH
for many scholarly purposes)--at around the $20 mark. Once
you order from them you will receive an *occasional* request
for donations to various funds which are dedicated to 
translating the Gospels into Venusian or whatever, but its
really low-key and non-objectionalble (imho).

Good luck with the search.

Jack F. Love

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:54:24 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Just what IS the e-mail policy?? (was Re: STOP Spreading...)
 <9212171534.AA08486@hrt213.brooks.af.mil> <1992Dec17.154906.7914@wam.umd.edu>
 <dfs.724608525@sybok>

Good golly, this is a third incident of Skoll breaking the rule! I repeat,
Skoll cannot be trusted to respect the privacy of e-mail. Either do not
send him any or do so with the knowledge that he may decide to make the
contents of your e-mail public knowledge. While he argues that he paraphrases
and doesn't quote, thus making it acceptable, this rationalisation clearly
uses the word of the law (as he cites it) to break it's spirit.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: To all Jews: STOP the negative Jewish
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:36:37 GMT

In article <1go5bkINN253@STOVE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
>In article <9212161855.AA06778@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>, tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:
>|> On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:54:30 GMT, yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe) said:
>|>  > In article 724430329@ro, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>|> >>In <1992Dec15.024433.4412@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>|> >>>   Jews like to argue
>|> >>They do not!
>|>  > Do SO!
>|> 	Sources!  Quote me sources!
>Now you look here!  We don't need any sources for this, it's a LEGITIMATE
>JEWISH INTERPRETATION!!!  They're both Jewish interpretations---you may have
>yours, but mine is *just as legitimate*, dammit!  I'm sick and tired of people
>arguing about whether Jews like to argue, asking for sources, and making
>ridiculous authoritarian claims!  My position is that they do, and you can't
>say otherwise, because it's a legitimate interpretation!  Got it?  
  So, how come none of you will accept MY interpretation, which is that
  arguing and not arguing in fact constitute a DUALITY? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: kashrus alert
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:49:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.205903.15738@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

>The following Kashrus Alerts from the Baltimore Agudas Yisroael
>newsletter is likely to be of interest.

>3. Kool Aid Kool Bursts ARE reccommended by the Baltimore Vaad
>Hakashrus.

While I imagine these might be "approved as kosher," I doubt any
Kool-Aid product (generally little more than sugar-water with "flavor"
- and artificial, at that) deserves to be recommended.

Just a little healthy food cynicism from one who has been known to
imbibe in such sugar-water products.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Holiday Calendar 1993, 1994, some 1995
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 06:44:03 GMT

er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
> |> er@iscp (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:

> |> >In the YK on Thursday years, erev Pesach is Shabbos, which makes
> |> >Hamotzi that morning rather a complex issue.
> |>
> |> Difficult, but not complicated.  The complexity begins in the afternoon.
> 
> Perhaps difficult is a better word.  For one thing, hamotzi must be made quite
> early.  Most Orthodox shuls *only* have a hashkama minyan that day.  Second,
> you have to be ultra-careful not to make crumbs, and to dispose of leftover
> scraps of bread appropriately (flushing down the toilet seems to be the usual
> method).  Third, you are almost certainly using your Pesach dishes that day,
> so you have to eat the bread without getting it near the dishes.  Etc., etc.

Fourth, you have to fit in two meals before the time at which you
can no longer eat chametz.

-Don Gertler
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Vijay Bhuchar-NUISANCE FOR JESUS!
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:26:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   Recently, Vijay Bhuchar has posted several pieces of Christian
propaganda in this group.  Each of them has opened with claims of
being solicited for the 'information' in the post.  Bhuchar opens
each post with a statement like "Somebody asked...," or "A number
of you asked...," or "Many of you have asked..."
   I have scanned the posts in this group, and I found no request
for ANY of this proselytizing.  Therefore, Bhuchar received these
requests by e-mail, or he made up these requests, to make it look
as if he was not proselyitizing.  In either case, he shouldn't be
posting these sermons here, but should be answering his flock via
e-mail.
   I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.  So, Mr. Bhuchar, it
seems that the proper thing to do would be to send your Christian
propaganda to those who asked you.
   I am requesting that you do not post your Christian propaganda
in this group any more.  I cannot speak for other Jews here.  But
I am offended and insulted by Christian proselytizing.  There are
probably other Jews in this group who feel the same.  They should
speak up for themselves.  And I hope they do.  Maybe if enough of
us express or objections to your proselytizing here, you'll stop.
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:17 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1gaoa6INNlj0@coral.bucknell.edu>  writes:
>
>is it a valid JEWISH concept that the death of a righteous person will
>expiate the sins of an entire generation,and if so,where does scripture
>affirm such aprinciple

The closest you get to this in Judaism is in using ancestor's names
while praying to add weight to your own words.  But it isn't their
deaths that have any affect, rather their greatness while they are
alive.

God will more likely redeem a generation whose great people remain
alive to teach the masses than one whose great people simply die.



-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: Messiah Jesus: re atonement thru death of a person
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:59:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.195018.24560@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay
Bhuchar) writes:
|> 
|> Somebody asked for the Scriptural proof that a man
|> could die to make atonement for sins.
|> 
|> The reference is Isaiah 53 - it is called the FORBIDDEN CHAPTER

So what?  Lots of scripture never appear in synagogue prayer.

|> since it is never read in a synagogue.  Modern copies of the Tenach 
|> actually delete verses 53:4 onwards.

Lies.

|> Although it is written in the past tense it is still a prophecy
|> about how the Messiah, the righteous servant, would be rejected by his 
|> own people but it pleased God because he made himself an offering
|> for sin.

If it's written in the past tense, it's not a prophecy.

|> LUCKY THAT JESUS DIED ON A PASSOVER - COINCIDENCE? not!
|> 
|> The absence of Temple proves that God no longer desires animal 
|> sacrifices for atonement.

Sez who?

|> Incidentally for those of you who believe in killing animals
|> for atonement I say why not kill a man for atonement?

Because Jews believe that human life is more important than animal life.
This is another indication that what you practice isn't Judaism.

|> If you want to see Rabbinic ideas on this see Pesikhta Rabbathi 
|> (midrash) Piskas 36.1 and 37.1 which also takes Psalm 22, the
|> crucifixion prophecy and applies it to the Messiah.

Why don't you just give it up?  You're not going to find any converts
here.  All you're doing is annoying people and making them even less 
likely to be civil toward you.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe)
Subject: Re: Recipes in general
Reply-To: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com
Cc: yaffe+@pendragon.icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Boston MA, USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:18:42 GMT

jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm)) writes:


> I'm compiling, as I may have mentioned,a personal cookbook.  Anyone got
> any traditional Hannukah/Rosh Hashanah or whatever recipes they would be
> willing to share?

So I raided my bride's recipe box and came up with this one.  We bake these
for birthdays, anniversaries, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and nearly all
of the Jewish Holidays except for Yom Kippur and Passover.  Let me know
when you try this recipe, JJ, and I'll come down there to taste one.  

Maybe two. . . 

---

     /\							     /\
____/_ \____						____/_ \____
\  ___\ \  /						\  ___\ \  /
 \/ /  \/ /         A RECIPE FROM A JEWISH MOTHER	 \/ /  \/ /
 / /\__/_/\						 / /\__/_/\
/__\ \_____\						/__\ \_____\
    \  /						    \  /
     \/							     \/
			   RUGELACH
			   --------

1 pkg. Dry Yeast		1 cup  Sugar
3 cups Flour			1 cup  Finely Chopped Walnuts
1 cup  Butter			2 tsp. Cinnamon
3      Egg Yolks		       
1 cup  sour cream

Sprinkle the yeast over the flour.  Add softened butter and blend.
Stir egg yolks into the sour cream and add to the flour mixture. 
Form into a ball, wrap in foil, and refrigerate over night.

Combine the sugar, chopped walnuts, and cinnamon.

Divide the dough into 4 balls.  Spread the sugar mixture on a board.  
Roll 1/4 of the dough into a 10 to 12 inch round, coating both sides 
well with the sugar mixture.  Cut the rolled dough into 16 wedges.  
Roll up from the wide end first.   Bake on a cookie sheet in a 325 
degree oven for 30 minutes. 

My favorite variant:  Place two or three raisins at the wide end of 
each wedge before rolling.  I also dip each rollup in the sugar 
mixture before I place it on the cookie sheet.  

---
********************************
Arthur G. Yaffe
Internet: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com
********************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: defense against a pogrom
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:37:38 GMT

In article <3034@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <1992Dec10.163631.2043@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu
(norman miller) writes:
>
>>Though both spellings are the result of tin ears (try meshiakh)
>
>I checked my concordance, there are 7 places in the Tanach where
>Mashiach or Hamashiach appears.  The first vowel is a kamatz, which
>makes Moshiach the Ashkenazi pronounciation.
>
>Assuming that you are using an 'e' in "meshiakh" to represent a sh'va,
>while the other 32 uses of this word in the Tanach do have the first
>vowel changed from a kamatz to a sh'va, they are all compound forms,
>e.g. m'shiach Hashem, m'shicho.
>
>I found no word (as opposed to a compound form) "meshiach" or "m'shiach".
>--

Warren is undoubtedly right about Tanakh spellings.  I was talking only
about the way the word is pronounced by Yiddish-speaking Jews such as the
Lubavitcher. The "Ashkenazi pronunciation" Warren mentions (there is of course
no single Ashkenazi pronunciation but let that pass) would render the
kamatz more like "muh" than a "mo" that rhymes with "toe".  In any event,
the word as it gets used on the street is as a _lot_ closer to me/muh/m'
than to mah or moe.

Norman Miller


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: The difference between a chasid and a misnagid
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 18:50:49 GMT

In article <102590@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec17.215056.19971@cs.tulane.edu>, david@bourbon (David
|> Kaufmann) writes:
|> >I don't think you meant to be insulting, but calling the followers of
|> >Rav Shach Chassidim is insulting to those who try to be. [...]
|> 
|> I think Isaac Balbin was using "chasid" in the literal sense of piety,
|> just like you used "misnagid" in the literal sense of opponent.
|> -- 
|> -Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

Probably not.  In all likelihood by 'Chassidim' he meant 'followers,' a
common ironic usage where I come from.

Is it something inherent in this medium, or are many of those who post here
sarcasm-impaired?  What ever became of the good sense of humor we Jews are
supposed to have?
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hanukkah's significance
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:37:17 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET (Yaakov Kayman)

In article <92352.084232YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>, YZKCU@CUNYVM (Yaakov Kayman) writes:
>While in the sense of religious observances Hanukkah is indeed a minor
>holiday, as it carries with it no prohibition against work, no mandating
>of a special festive meal, no Mussaf (additional) prayer service, etc.,

Gambling.  It contains gambling.

Any recommendations of where to catch some hot Hanukkah Bingo?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))
Subject: Re: HALVAH Recipies Please
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 06:46:35 GMT

>The only recipe with Halvah I know, but a simple, superb one, is:

>Take a one-inch slice of pound cake. Put a half-inch slice of
>Halvah on top. Sprinkle rose water on top of that. Put under
>a broiler until the Halvah begins to melt. Remove and serve.

>I got this from a Moroccan named Hassan, who ran a coffee shop
>called "Hassan's" in Greenwich Village in the late 1950's that
>I used to hang out in during my folk singing/flamenco days.

>David

How about recipes for MAKING Halvah?  ALso, from the recipe above it sounds like
a cheese or something of the sort.  I was under the impression that it was a
type of sesame cookie....  ???  Would it melt?

JJ




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Non-Jews For Torah (was Re: Here we go again)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:38:49 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC
Keywords: annoying messianics and missionaries


I think this following excerpt is an appropriate rejoinder to our rather
rude evangelistic invaders:


	     "Leaving Christianity and Becoming B'nai Noah"
	    (Excerpted from The Jewish Voice, December 1992)

ATHENS, TENN -- One of the men at last month's seventh annual Emmanuel
Conference was the son of a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher who had
told his daughter-in-law to grab her children and flee from her husband
who had surely "gone to the devil."  Hesitantly, an elderly woman softly
related that her children no longer speak to her because she has
rejected Jesus.  These former Christians joined 150 others who had come
to this Bible Belt city for what was in effect a B'nai Noah convention.

     From as far away as Washington State, Texas, and Indiana, they had
come to hear the word of G-d and to find truth in their lives from
rabbis.  They accept only Orthodox Judaism as valid, and believe their
obligation is to abide by the Biblical seven commandments of the Sons of
Noah, also known as the Noahide Laws.

     Many have trod the same path as the leader of the movement, Rev. J.
David Davis, a former Baptist minister in this town, who decided, after
20 years of study that "Christian theology cannot stand up under the
microscope of Torah."  These men and women have traced the historical
origins of Christianity and found that many Christian Bible teachings
and stories devolve from pagan origins and early Church efforts to
appeal to the masses.  Jesus, they find, could not have said most of
what is attributed to him in the Christian Bible.

     Searching for man's earliest belief systems, they usually come
across information regarding the Noahide Laes and seek out rabbis
willing to teach them.  Like Rev. Davis, whose Emmanuel Baptist Church
is now the Emmanuel B'nai Noah Congregation, most see no reason to
convert to Judaism.  They simply become B'nai Noah.

...

(Non-Jews who are interested in the B'nai Noah movement can contact Rev.
Davis in Athens, Tennessee.)


-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish