From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: morality????????
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:36:49 GMT

bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:

>In article <ednclark.721007809@kraken> ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes:
>>dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
>>
>>Precisely, here's a couple of other backing points. If we allow a murderer
>>or rapist to continue in this society, they are contributing to the violence
>>of the society we live in in more than one way. Not only are they likely
>>repeat perpetrators, but they are likely to influence others who may not
>>have been violent and also are given the opportunity to reproduce and raise
>>kids with a role model murderer or rapist parent. 


>  A bold statement, requiring commensurate proof.  Can you provide
>  any?  Sounds a lot like the homosexual recruiting argument.  Are
>  you aware of any violent criminals who blame a criminal role model
>  as the root cause of their problem?  Any psychologists who make
>  this suggestion?  I haven't, but feel free to enlighten me.

I'm not saying that a role model parent produces exactly similar behaviours
in offspring (and besides I think this is the rarest of the three reasons I
mentioned), just a general life attitude that its okay to step on others for
fun or self gain regardless of the type of people you step on.

>>Anyone who commits these
>>crimes has forfeited their right to remain within our society. I do not
>>beleive in retribution and I beleive these people have gone beyond a second
>>chance, they are unsafe to be allowed to live in our society. Many societies
>>have exiled particularly nasty offenders rather than execute them, maybe
>>this is a solution.
>>

>  Unless you catch the criminal with the smoking gun in his hands
>  and the body on the ground, are you comfortable sending innocent
>  people to permanent exile?  Or death?  I still say the capital
>  punishment argument is premised on a perfect justice system which
>  never makes mistakes.  I'm sure you've heard the argument that our
>  judicial system is set up so that a few guilty men go free rather
>  than convict an innocent man.  If only this were true.

I'm afraid that if it improves the peoples lives to the dramatic extent I
beleive it would then innocent sacrifice may be necessary. As mentioned in
another post we accept horrendous numbers of  innocents dying in car
accidents to have the right to convenient transportation. Why not the
exilement or execution of some innocents to gaurantee societies protection
from people who will remove you rights at anytime.

>>No gaurds, no doctors, no tvs, no electricity, no guns,
>>nothing, just a picket to make sure no-one gets in with a method to get
>>out and who cares if they get overcrowded.

>  With this level of compassion, it's no wonder you're pro capital
>  punishment.

Exactly, I have no compassion for people who have violated violently the
rights of innocents.  I know a family of a murder victim and I know a few
women who have been victims of rape, it's not pretty, it makes you angry
when these people's lives have been forever scarred and the assholes that
did it are allowed to go out and do it again and again.  If you think I lack
compassion for murderers and rapists you should hear them. But what is worse
is that we are all victims, we all know we can't go certain places at
certain times, we all must pay higher insurance premiums to cover the acts
of violence, and there is nothing we can do to gaurantee that it won't
happen to us, especially for women. We are all so concerned about being an
ethical society that we forget that elements of the society will take
advantage of the naivete we display.

Jeff.


>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

>Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

>"Look, I tried the cat experiment.  On the third trial, the cat was
>dead.  On each of the subsequent 413 trials, it remained dead.  Am I
>doing something wrong?"
>			James Nicoll

>Q.  How many Heisenbergs does it take to screw in a light bulb?
>A.  If you know the number, you don't know where the light bulb is!
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