HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 15 Nov 92 16:43:20 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.wizards
Organization: GSP Whitewater Slalom Racing Team

In article <Bxq6uz.BB8@chinet.chi.il.us> les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>These problems could be solved as easily under unix as anywhere else,
>except for the fact that people who have spent years learning unix
>have forgotten that there is a problem.

"Problem" is a matter of opinion; I consider the items you list "features",
and find the occasional toasting that they give to a user who didn't RTFM
a helpful educational tool.  I happen to like the expert-friendly
and relatively unforgiving nature of most Unix implmentations.  Those
who feel otherwise are certainly free to implement whatever warm-fuzzy-
hand-holding-protect-the-user-from-themselves features they wish.

---Rsk
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:22:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.153857.1666@global.hacktic.nl>, peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:
> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
>> files?  Consider instead "echo a b > b".[%]
> I did just that with bash and it didn't complain.  But yet, echo is
> often a built-in command.

Did you read my footnote?  It addresses exactly that.

>> Is "acceptance in the general microcomputer market place" something
>> we wish for UNIX?
> Acceptance in the general microcomputer market also means more
> software, lower prices, more support (every (S)VGA card ships with
> Windows drivers, but X11 support is harder to get),

Speaking purely personally....

More software?  The sort of software that popularity will bring will of
necessity be mass-market software, which is (a) extortware, (b) dumbed
down to suit the mass market, and (c) usually does something I'm not
the least bit interested in anyway.

Lower prices?  For what?  I will never pay for software, and there's no
reason I can't use mass-market hardware (like, say, a 486 box).

More support?  There's no way in hell I'm even going to be working at a
place that can afford to buy the level of support that just having the
source gives, never mind actually paying it myself.  (I once was on a
consulting job at an organization that had, to support the job in
question, bought support from the relevant vendor.  About all we ever
got out of them was "uh, that's a good question, let me get back to
you".  I can think of only one thing they ever told us that we hadn't
already found out for ourselves by UTSLing (they had, sensibly, also
obtained the source), and that thing was incidental rather than being
what we asked.)

> more UNIX related jobs (or do you prefer to use Windows at work? :),
> more UNIX everything.

Possibly a point, though there's still the danger that they'll not be
the-UNIX-I-love jobs and everything but UNIX-dumbed-down-for-the-masses
jobs and everything.

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: postmaster@tintin.csl.sni.be
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: smtp mail warning
Date: 15 Nov 92 10:44:14 GMT

Your mail to magellan is not yet delivered.
Delivery attempts continue.
---------- diagnosis ----------
---------- unsent mail ----------
From Unix-Wizards Fri Nov 13 15:27:20 UT 1992 remote from BRL.MIL remote from tintin
Received: from BRL.MIL by tintin.csl.sni.be; Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:07 MET
Received: by snibru.uucp (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.4)
	id <m0mq4Nt-0000mwC@snibru.uucp>; Fri, 13 Nov 92 18:00 MEZ
Received: from vm1.NoDak.edu by ub4b.buug.be (5.65c/ub4b_02)
	id AA15673; Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:48:19 +0100
Received: from NDSUVM1.BITNET by VM1.NoDak.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)
   with BSMTP id 1775; Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:47:00 CST
Received: from NDSUVM1.BITNET by NDSUVM1.BITNET (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id
 5540; Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:46:56 CST
Message-Id: <199211131748.AA15673@ub4b.buug.be>
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:27:20 UT
Reply-To: Unix-Wizards@BRL.MIL
From: "Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group"              <TGJ@UKHOUO.PRIME.COM>
Subject:      Configuring Racal Modem
X-To:         UNIX-WIZARDS@BRL.MIL
To: Multiple recipients of list UNIX-WIZ <UNIX-WIZ@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 612

I'm trying to configure a Racal-Vadic vi2422PA modem which is Hayes
Compatible on a Sparc 2. The problem is that the modem does not drop Carrier
Detect (CD) when there is no signal on the line. This causes getty to tie up
the serial port and prevent me calling out.

modem is set for xon/xoff using a straight through modem cable. Port config
is :-

ttyb-mode=9600,8,n,1,s
ttyb-rts-dtr-off=true
ttyb-ignore-cd=false

ttytab reads :-
cua1    "/usr/etc/getty std.2400"       unknown         off remote secure
ttyd1   "/usr/etc/getty std.2400"       dialup          on modem secure

ttyb has been renamed to ttyd1.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:28:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.091914.6799@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
> Yes, it might.  So what?  Is "acceptance in the general microcomputer
> market place" something we wish for UNIX?

If we want to keep being able to buy nice cheap UNIX systems with decent
performance for the long-term, yes.

I would say that a friendly shell that does all the command parsing (like
DCL does) would be quite a nice touch.
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4779 comp.unix.shell:4773 comp.unix.misc:4241
From: urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 18 Nov 1992 13:48:17 +0100
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG

In comp.unix.wizards, article <1992Nov17.021538.25729@mole-end.matawan.nj.us>,
  mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes:
>  
> > Do yourself a favor and compile ELM.
> 
> This user says `bletch!'  I've got ELM.  It threw away a valuable piece of
> mail on me because the mail included another mail header.

So do yourself a favor and either use MMDF-style mailboxes (if your MTA
can't create these, do yourself a favor and ... ;-) or tell your MTA to
replace any occurrence of "\n\nFrom " with "\n\n>From ". Or something like
that. You're going to have that problem with any mailer; it's not Elm's
fault.

-- 
One Yuppie can ruin your whole day.
-- 
Matthias Urlichs  --  urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de   /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- Germany  --  +49-721-9612521     \o)/
From: oleg@gd. (Oleg Kibirev)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: Detecting if running under chroot
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:17:03 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Departement of California State University in Fresno

In article <1e8lf3INN7q6@smurf.smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
>In comp.unix.wizards, article <5076@prcrs.prc.com>,
>  paul@prcrs.prc.com (Paul Hite) writes:
>> 
>> Well I've played around some public access bbs systems that thew me into a
>> chroot env.  From a practical standpoint, I quickly noticed how little I could
>> do.  It just had the "feel" of a chroot environment.  But I guess that you're
>> looking for a more formal method.  I would examine the inode of the root.  I
>> think something like "ls -id /" should do it.  But I still say that most
>> chroot'd environments that I have seen don't really need much effort to
>> detect.
>> 
>Doesn't work if the chrooted environment resides on the root of another file
>system.
>
>I'd say that any way to detect a chrooted environment from first principles,
>i.e. other than finding a local news server but no newsspool, is declared
>a bug in the OS.
>
Yup. Consider chroot /.

Oleg
From: exubern@exu.ericsson.se (Bernie Meier)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Need info: C++ obj & shared libraries
Keywords: shared libraries, C++ objects
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:15:50 GMT
Reply-To: exubern@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, USA
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

I have heard that it is very difficult to use the full capabilities of C++
(virtuals, static instantiation, con/destruction) when designing shared
object libraries. 

My questions are as follows:

1. Is there adequate support for C++ shared libraries? (e.g. C++ objs are
   hard to use efficiently in shared mem, thus by extension in shared code)

2. Is there a way to ensure correct initialization of statically declared
   C++ objects in shared code?

3. Do virtual members cause any problems in shared libraries?

4. Why does the SunOS debugger, dbx(1), not properly allow debugging of
   programs using shared code? I get an error message like:
   "dbx: internal error: assertion failed at line 2443 in file ../common/object.c"
   At other times the shared objects seem to be nil pointers but the
   program still runs correctly.

5. Is there any good documentation addressing C++ and shared libraries, or 
   something more detailed than the standard SunOS manuls?

Thanks for any help.

-Bernie

---
=================================================================
|| exubern@exu.ericsson.se   || "Do they speak swedish in      ||
|| Ericsson Network Systems  ||  Switzerland?"   - R.U.Serious ||
|| Richardson, TX, USA       ||(Don't let the .se fool you...) !!
=================================================================
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4817 comp.unix.shell:4821 comp.unix.misc:4274
From: gwc@root.co.uk (Geoff Clare)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:53:29 GMT
Organization: UniSoft Ltd., London, England

mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:

>All of these are available:

>%s	argv[0],
>%s	((errno>0)&&(errno<sys_nerr))?sys_errlist[errno]:"Unknown error"
>%d	getpid()

Better make that:

    %ld   (long)getpid()

since getpid() returns a pid_t on modern systems, and pid_t can be
either int or long.

>Of course, this helps only when errno contains something useful.  Far
>too many things don't do this - fopen, for example, does not have
>anything to do with errno as any part of its contract....

Out of date again.  POSIX requires fopen() to set errno the same as
open() does.

-- 
Geoff Clare <gwc@root.co.uk> (USA antiquated mailers: ...!uunet!root.co.uk!gwc)
UniSoft Limited, London, England.   Tel: +44 71 729 3773   Fax: +44 71 729 3273
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.unix.admin,comp.protocols.nfs
From: "Andrew Luck" <p00078@psilink.com>
Subject: SOLVED: Secondary Intermittent Groups Failure
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:00:36 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

The complete problem statement and the message containing the solution.
This is an ugly bug.


Here is updated information on our "group" problem.

We are running SunOS 4.1.2 on a Sparc IPX.  We are using the
	NIS that was shipped with this version of the OS.

The "group" problem is defined completely (as I know it) below:

The "passwd" NIS database gives this (ypcat passwd):

transmgr:<deleted>:2000:11:Transportation Manager:/home/gru5/transmgr:/bin/csh
jwhisner:<deleted>:2012:1001:Jim Whisner:/home/gru5/jwhisner:/bin/csh
<Many more>
mgaines:<deleted>:2005:1001:Mark Gaines:/home/gru5/mgaines:/bin/csh
<Still More>

The "group" NIS database gives this (ypcat group):

transmgr:*:11:
trangrap:*:1002:pnaranjo,wegan,ksaunder,mgaines,ebennett,jwhisner,transmgr,rlewis,jprather,jsmith,fstrmbrg,awebster,kwalsh,cwillard
tranengr:*:1001:transmgr
structur:*:1003:transmgr
traffic:*:1004:transmgr,wtaylor
enveng:*:1005:
other:*:20:
ess:*:100:

When the command "groups <username>" is typed (by anyone, while logged in
without priveleges) the output is constant for persons added to group 1002
in the "group" file:

<username>: trangrap tranengr

When the command "groups" is typed while logged in as each of the users,
the output shows as below:

for users: pnaranjo wegan ksaunder ebennett jwhisner transmgr kwalsh
the output is : "transengr trangrap"

for users: mgaines rlewis jprather jwmith fstrmbrg awebster cwillard
the output is : "transengr"

Further, if you type the command "groups <username>" while logged in
as that user, the output is always:

<username>: trangrap tranengr

Finally, the newgrp command will allow any of these people to change
groups (as in SVR3 derivitives).


The system is setup so that NIS !MUST! be used.  Our "passwd" and "group"
files are stripped except for system level accounts/groups.

Any help is Greatly appreciated!


AND THE ANSWER WAS!!!

There's a bug in the SunSolve database somewhere (don't have access to it
right now) which indicates that this can be a problem and that sometimes
you have to do a "cd /var/yp; rm netid.time; make netid" in addition to
the "make group", in order for group changes to be propagated properly.

One of our other sites also had problems with group membership changes not
being picked up, and this turned out to be the problem.
-- 
Ruth Milner                          NRAO/VLA                  Socorro NM
Computing Division Head      rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu

MANY MANY THANKS  :)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:48:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.132517.9313@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:

>That's a point.  They should have had the guts to dump creat() when
>they folded it into open().  (Or are you saying they shouldn't have
>extended open?  Would you prefer to have a separate syscall for each
>permutation of flag bits in the second argument to current open()?)

I'd prefer to have more arguments - for example to control locking the
file atomically with the open().  It just seems so inelegant to open
a file, possibly creating it, and then to have to fight with other
processes over who has control of it.  And the traditional unix solution
of using separate lockfiles has a worse problem: there's no way to
remove a stale one safely.

Les Mikesell
  les@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: alt.unix.wizards,comp.unix.wizards
From: ccksb@trentu.ca (Ken Brown)
Subject: Help with Seagate ST42100N please
Keywords: Seagate ST42100 /etc/disktab
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:01:07 GMT


Hello wizards,

I have a Seagate ST42100N (1.9g), Decstation 5000, Ultrix 4.2.
I need an /etc/disktab entry for this drive.  Perhaps someone has one
and will mail it to me, or point me in the right direction (as I do not
consider myself a wizard I don't subscribe to ..wizards).  Thanks in
advance.

====================================================================
Ken Brown                                       voice: (705)748-1540
Trent University Computing & Telecommunications   fax: (705)748-1246
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada K9J 7B8     internet: kbrown@trentu.ca
-- 
====================================================================
Ken Brown                                       voice: (705)748-1540
Trent University Computing & Telecommunications   fax: (705)748-1246
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada K9J 7B8     internet: kbrown@trentu.ca
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4697 comp.unix.shell:4714 comp.unix.misc:4173
From: hartman@informix.com (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:29:27 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov13.104731.29328@aston.ac.uk> evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans) writes:
>michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke) writes:
...
>: > ... My new shell keeps track of the user's command history in order to
>: >make accurate corrections.
>: >
>: >I have no hopes to solve all of the shell user interface problems, but I do
>: >hope to solve most of the common errors.  Just by fixing obvious typos my shell
>: >can fix 90% of the command line errors that I (and most people) make on a daily
>: >basis.
>: >
>: 
>: Well, fixing typos is neat but it is not the essential problem.  My
>: main complaint about Unix on the user interface level is that there is
>: no command line interpreter.

[discussion of no standard options problem omitted for brevity]

>:  ... This would all be
>: solved if there were *one* system function that is used by all programs
>: instead of having every program duplicate more or less the same
>: functionality with different success.  And it would be great if you
>: could abbreviate commands (command completion of some shells it neat
>: but why is it neccessary in the first place?) and options (no need for
>: dynamic chinese anymore).

You know, I see merit in both of these approaches.  The command line
parser should be a library routine in stdio.  The shell should use
command and option completion prior to exec, and the command history to
autocorrect typos when the parsing routine returns an error.  This
routine could perhaps be called by the shell as the last step prior to
calling exec to save system overhead of having to create a process
only to return an immediate error.

-r
From: steve@nuchat.sccsi.com (Steve Nuchia)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: Changing the owner of a process
Keywords: process ownership
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:07:57 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.  Houston

In article <1992Nov19.220759.1846@exlog.com> mcdowell@exlogcorp.exlog.com (Steve McDowell) writes:
>Why is it going to panic over an inconsistent process count? That's simply
>not good operating system design. When it hits an inconsistancy (as it
>eventually will in some remote region of the world) it should simply alert
>the operator and re-count things.

Three points:

1: If you have enough free time on your hands, feel free to write
the necessary recounting code for all the places where the kernel
keeps counts.  I'd prefer to have the CSRG's remaining time spent
on improving fundamental algorithms.

2: I may be old-fashioned, but I prefer to have a system panic
when it detects a "can't happen" bug.  That means something
has gone wrong.  Under those circumstances, why would you want
to trust a piece of recovery code that hasn't been tested in
living memory?

3: What is the opertator going to do about it, anyway?  If one of
these counts gets out of whack, somebody who can fix the code needs
to know about it, fast.  Something caused the fault, and there is
literally no telling what else may be broken until the cause is found.

Of course, if one is building a system for binary-only distribution
or attempting to provide for non-stop operation, other considerations
apply.  BSD Unix does not have those design goals.
-- 
Steve Nuchia      South Coast Computing Services, Inc.      (713) 661-3301
Consultancy in technical computing.  Communications services.  Hardware.
4-port serial card for AT bus.  Public shell/internet accounts in Houston.
From: mcdowell@exlog.com (Steve McDowell)
Subject: Re: resident clock under vt100?
Organization: EXLOG, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:50:52 GMT

In message <1992Nov19.190437.25356@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> schles@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (The Skateboard Dude) asks:
> Hi.  In our library here at JHU, we have vt100 terminals connected to the
> campus network.  One time while I was working on homework, I realized I didn't
>
> The problem was I was constantly typing in 'date' to check the time.  Is there
> a command or program similar to TSR's on IBM's which could constantly keep me
> informed of the time and/or have an alarm that could ring the default beep at
> a specific time?  It doesn't even need to be resident, I just want something
> I can control-C out of

If you ran X windows, these things would be at your fingertips. But, since you're 
on dumb terminals, try this (or a variation thereof) for your simple needs:

	while(true)
	do
		date
		sleep 60
	done

For alarm clock functionality, lookup "at". This answer may be simple, but it works
with little hassle.

-- 
Steve McDowell             . . . . o o o o o 		Opinions are 
Exlog, Inc.	                  _____      o     	mine, not my 
mcdowell@exlog.com      _____====  ]OO|_n_n__][.    	employers..
		       [_________]_|__|________)<   
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: ski8032@tamsun.tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:01:36 GMT

Thus spake peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva):
>touch b a 
>cat a b > b 
>b: File exists.
>
>What's your problem?

echo a > a
echo b > b
cat a b > b
cat: input b is output
cat a
a
cat b
a

==> rm *
==> Are you sure you wanted to do that?(y/n)n
==> Well, too late now...

> Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180

-- 
Till next time,                \o/   \o/
                                V \o/ V     email:pinky@tamu.edu
<>  Sam  Inala  <>                 V
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: <none>
From: oleg@gd.cs.CSUFresno.EDU (Oleg Kibirev)
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:39:57 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science Departement of California State University in Fresno

Hi,

Can anybody mail me an index of patches for SunOS 4.1.3. I have found patches
at ftp.uu.net but don't have enough disk space to get everything :(. Now, I
assume not everything in this dir is needed for 4.1.3 anyway. This Q is
specially for people reading this @sun.com!

Thanks in advance!
Oleg

P.S: Please reply to oleg@gd.cs.csufresno.edu, not to a horrible address that
might appear in From: or Sender:. News software is under construction...





Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: orjanr@staff.cs.uit.no (rjan Robertsen)
Subject: Please explain...
Keywords: Telnet, pseudo-terminals, sockets
Organization: University of Troms
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:06:32 GMT

Hello wizards, can some of you help me out on the following:

When you use telnet, telnetd sets up a pseudo terminal before doing
a fork. The child "dups" its descriptors so that stdin. stdout and stderr all
go to the slave side of the pseudo terminal, and then execs /bin/login
which in turn execs your remote shell. The parent (the original telnetd)
goes into a loop and handles I/O from the net and the master side of the pseudo
terminal. Right? 

What I don't understand is how input/output from the shell (to/from the slave side of the terminal) ends up going over the socket back to the local telnet?
I thought all communication had to pass through telnetd, but monitoring
this process (with monitor) shows no I/O activity when telnet and the remote
shell is communicating. How can this be ? How is the I/O from the remote
shell mapped onto the network ? I thought it would pass through the normal
sosend()/soreceive() routines, but as far as I can see, it does not?

The book by Stevens gives a good example with rlogin, and from the picture
(side 617) it seems that all communication goes through rlogind. Shouldn't
it be the same setup for telnetd ?

Please email.
Thanks in advance..
-- 
////      rjan W. Robertsen            |e-mail   : orjanr@staff.cs.uit.no////
///Dept. of Computer Science, University|Home     : +47-83-82897          ///
// of Tromsoe, N-9000 TROMS, NORWAY    |Phone/Fax: +47-83-44053/44580    //