HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: BTECH: What would you do???
From: phygod72@nic.gac.edu (Phil )
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:23:48 -0600


Okay, so people don't like my thinking as far as artillery goes.  I will submit  
to the fact that a purely artillery unit will, more than likely, get it's butt  
kicked (unless it stays off the battlefield :) )--enough of this, though.

This whole thread has sparked an idea:  how do you mix your units?  That is, do  
you use lances of stuff (as many reading this apparently do), or do you mix and  
match?  What would you do in a given tactical situation?

For arguments sake, let's throw out a hypothetical situation that we'd design a  
group for.  Chose a side and post what you would do, including mech  
names/variant.  If you use something of your own design, post the  
specifications.  I realize that this may take a little thought/time, so let's  
have a goal of a week.  Please post your team by the conclusion of Tuesday, 17  
November.


Here's the situation:

City defense against a Clan invasion

Terrain:  4x4 mapsheets
	   a = 1 city
	   b = 1 level 5 hill
	   c = 3 river/light woods (you know the map)
	   d = 1 lake
	   e = 4 of the generic "hills in two corners, scattered woods"
	   f = 3 mixed woods maps
	   g = 3 open terrain


   1     2     3     4
|-----|-----|-----|-----|
|  g  |  g  |  g  |  f  |  w
|-----|-----|-----|-----|
|  e  |  f  |  e  |  a  |  x
|-----|-----|-----|-----|
|  c  |  c  |  c  |  d  |  y
|-----|-----|-----|-----|
|  e  |  b  |  f  |  f  |  z
|-----|-----|-----|-----|


Player 1 may start in 1y and 1z
Player 2 starts in 4w and 4x, and is defending

Player 1 is Clan, 600 tons (dropship is not involved)
Player 2 is InnerSphere, 1200 tons

Since Player 2 is defending, he may use hidden units in the beginning, as well  
as have fortifications (of any size desired).

For simplicities sake, assume all pilots are average.


Objectives:
  Player 1: capture the city or destroy 800 tons
  Player 2: destroy Player 1 completely or force his retreat


Phil Miesle
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Btech: Favorite Mechs
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:12:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <BxBAqv.4sr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga) writes:
]aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink) writes:
]
]>The Widowmaker is a @#$% CURSED 'mech!  I've NEVER seen so many consecutive
]>head shots scored against any one class of 'mech in so many scenerios!
]>I LOVED the DW when I first saw it -- then it became the first 'mech to die
]>in THREE CONSECUTIVE BATTLES (OK, it tied once).  I couldn't take it anymore.
]
]Was it just unlucky, or did it suffer from "Holy S**T, it's so huge, we have
]to kill it NOW!!!" syndrome? I've found that really tough 'Mechs tend to
]draw more firepower than they are worth. Was it a case where the volume of
]fire led to a higher chance of criticals, or just bad luck?

Higher volume of fire. That thing can probably take out one 'Mech per turn
if it uses most of its weapons and has a competent pilot. Of *course* 
any sane opfor commander is going to take it out first.

]
]>If you want class, you want style, and you want conservative power,
]>	NOTHING tops the COPPERTOP
]>		That is, a slightly customized Warhammer.
]
]The Warhammer, from what I've seen, is the basis for more customizations
]and modifications of any 'Mech FASA has issued yet. I don't really know
]why, but I know that I can list at least 10 Warhammer variants that I've
]seen and that's 10 in 3025 and 10 in 3050/3055 era. It seems to be the
]hot rod of the FASA world.
]

I have a variant of the Wolverine I'm working on w/3050 tech. It's nasty. :)
Maybe I'll post it when I can find the stats (or redo them, I lost them :(
and get it all together.

-- 
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us
#^%$!! Militarist          |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: griffin@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Zack Thompson)
Subject: Re: BTECH-Gamer/Player  which are you?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:41:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.224050.12746@e2big.mko.dec.com> thesingm@soadc.enet.dec.com (Running in the Shadows) writes:
>
>I'm not knocking long games.  If you have time to kill, great!  If you have
>one day a month, short games are more satisfying.  Work has pretty much
>killed my gaming time.
>
>Game times, I think, is one reason FASA introduced Clans.  Make the games
>end before your attention span does.
>
>
>  Matt Thesing
>
>--
>Matt Thesing				thesingm@soadc.enet.dec.com
>Digital Equipment Corporation


Howdy-

ZT here.

Granted.  I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement that looooooooooong games
  are the best, just that I personally like IS stuff because I really like
  the really drawn out stuff.  The only reason I don't play chess is because
  there's no guns.  AND, I'm a freshman a college.  'Nuff said about time.
  Course, every now and again a one-on-on, knock-down, drag-out, grab-'em-by-
  the-short-hairs-and-kick-'em-in-the-teeth arena catfight is darn refreshing.

Just for the Record.

                       The Crystal Griffin
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: eda858xsft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: BTECH: Us vs. Them vs. who?
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:47:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.213252.26326@midway.uchicago.edu>, arp2@ellis.uchicago.edu (andrew robert polis) writes:
> John (91vanderkolk@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>>
>>	With all the "changes" that the inner sphere has gone through what do
>>you expect FASA to do? With FedCom and Kurita getting chummy they had to do
>>something to generate conflict. Bringing back Clan wolverine would be a
>>mistake for one reason. This was a Clan that used Atomics. In Natural Selection
>>it was revealed that the nuke was used on a genetic repository. This would open
>>up a whole new door for the "munchkins" I can see it now... Well I'll just
>>drop a TacNuke on your forces, I win. :( With the way things are going I could
>>almost see FASA pairing the Warden Clans with the "good" houses of the I.S.
>>(FedCom, Kurita, Comstar, ST. Ives) vs. the crusader clans and the "bad"
>>I.S. houses (Word of Blake, Marik, Liao) vs. Wolverine. The houses will also
>>"discover" caches of battleships and so on.... 
>>	The problem, as I see it, is that FASA is being too quiet about what
>>its plans are for the further evolution of Battletech. Also getting everyone
>>working towards a common goal would be nice too. :)
>>
>>
>>John
> 
> 
> Oh come now, Clan Wolverine's notso bad...  If you read accounts of the first
> succession war, it seems that everyone was unsing nukes at that time.  That
> was hundreds of years ago, and we do't hold that against them anymore.  So
> we shouldn't automatically assume that Clan Wolverine would resort to such
> weapons... 
>    But given the small number that escaped the trial of annihilation, they
> couldn't really be much of a threat without nukes.  Imagine one galaxy
> against all the clans (not much of a fight quineg?)
> 
> 
> -Andrew Polis
> 
> arp2@midway.uchicago.edu
> Why all this fighting?  Why can't they all just be friends? :)

You are assuming that we have been following you foolish examples. We are far
stronger than you think and we shall eradicate those that tried to destroy us.

We ARE your worst nightmares.....

(Message recieved by comstar from deep space near the FedCom Combine boarder..

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: crusader@lut.fi (Crusader ,the Holy Soldier of Metal)
Subject: BTech: Clan Diamond Shark
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:58:03 GMT
Distribution: rec
Disclaimer: You can't bring me down
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland


In Wolf Clan Sourcebook are listed all the 20 clans. Yet, later in the
description of the Battle of Tukaayid, is Clan Diamond Shark ( not in
the list of 20 ) mentioned as a reserve clan. 

This raises a question: if 17 of the original 20 remain, Wolverine and
Mongoose absorbed ( why was Mongoose absorbed ?? ) and Widowmaker
annihilated, what is the clan that has changed its name, and why
has it changed its name?

Otherwise, it could be just another FASA error, but the question still
remains.

--
I crusader@kannel.lut.fi I    /              I How can you call me evil ?
I Mikko Hy|kki           I (==I-Crusader---> I Have you spoken to God today..
I Laserkatu 3 AB 222     I    \              I       ...And what did he say ?
I 53850 LAPPEENRANTA     I                   I          - Suicidal Tendencies
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper)
Subject: Jutland - a classic game
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:11:45 GMT

Maybe it's because it harkens back to simpler times, but I always liked the
Avalon Hill game Jutland, even though the rules didn't really give an meaning
to everything that was happening.  I never have gotten around to redesigning
it.

Are there any Jutland fans out there?  And are there better games featuring
naval war between the age of sail and the age of air?

And I always though Jutland would play better with a board...
From: rnlee@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Profess'nal Agitator)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Machiavelli question
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:17:33 GMT
Organization: MAWL - Mudd Alums Without Lives

This question pertains to the postscript version of the map available
on the judge.

According to the rules, fleets may only convert to garrisons at ports,
and available fortress locations are marked by a filled in square.

Well, what about Corsica and Sardinia?

These both have port markers, but are filled in circles not squares.
Should these be garrison locations?  If not, what is the significance
of the port marker?  The rules.machiavelli file doesn't mention
anything about ports other than them being the only location where a
fleet may convert into a garrison.

Thanx in advance,

Agitator
  #->

*Bubble Gum Crisis-Kimagure Orange Road-Dirty Pair-Macross-Urusei Yatsura*
*Maison Ikkoku-Honneamise-Riding Bean-Venus Wars-Megazone 23-//-Lupin III*
*------------- R E M E M B E R   B E I J I N G -------------//-----------*
*IBM PC - Who wants a politically correct computer?     \\ // Only AMIGA!*
*================================ Bring Back the Caltech \X/ Cannon!! ===*
*Roderick Lee, HMC '91    "The Professional Agitator"   agitator@ucsd.edu*
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: [A&A](No of dice and luck)
Date: 11 Nov 1992 21:46:02 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

yogi@iesd.auc.dk (Joergen H. Andersen) writes:


>It is very fine all the analyses, there has been mede on this
>newsgroup about chanses in defense and attack of varying types of
>units. 

>I find that for a simple rule of deciding the chances of an attack you
>simply count the values of the units and add them. that is:

>3 inf -> 3 points in an attack and 6 points in a defence situation.

>The golden rule is: "the one with the most points will win" 

>But if you in an attack have a lot of inf, you don't lose as many
>points as your opponent during combat.

>For simple calculation of odds I find this method is fine.

So what happens when a battleship attacks another battleship?  Do they
both lose?  Or what if the odds are fractional?  Round up or down? 
Peraps just using the odds would be fine for large battles (I have
considered this before), for small ones, the variance is too large.

keith

Organization: User Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 17:52:38 -0500 
From: John Lerchey <jl4l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: R.A.H. Started walking tanks? Was:Re: BTECH: Jap Crap

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.board: 4-Nov-92 Re: R.A.H. Started
walking .. Robert E. Brunskill@andr (358)

> Was it "Space Marines"?  I think that's the title.  With the bugs and
> the 'gorilla suits'.
> That was an enjoyable book.  Any one ever play the game based on it?

> Rob Brunskill

The book was Starship Troopers and the "gorilla suits" were powered
armor, not MECHs.  There were references either in there or in an Ogre
introduction alluding the effect that powered armor infantry (Mobile
Infantry in Starship Troopers) had the mobility and firepower of a 20th
century tank, but I don't remember which.

I've played the Starship Troopers boxed game by Avalon Hill.  It was
very fun, but very limited.  It contained a couple of scenarios against
the 'skinnies' and some against the 'bugs'.  I always found the bug
scenarios to be more fun, but really hard to win playing bugs.

John Lerchey
lerchey+@cmu.edu
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Btech: Favorite Mechs--BOOK MECHS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 02:38:07 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <83320@ut-emx.uucp>, wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.225538.12392@netcom.com> clarka@netcom.com (Andrew Clark) writes:
>]phygod72@nic.gac.edu (Phil ) writes:
>]>In article <Bx7JtL.1xy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  writes:
>]>} phygod72@nic.gac.edu (Phil ) writes:
>]>} >People actually *like* book 'mechs?

>]I don't like the vast majority of them.  There are a few . . .
>]3050 Marauder, for example.  I prefer to design my own but tournaments  
>]require the use of stock 'Mechs.

>Yeah, the "stock 'Mech" rule sucks. I had a modified Wolverine (3050 weapons,
>w/2x heat sinks :) I wanted to use in a small tournament game. Wouldn't let
>me.

 So true in general the "Stock/Book/Sheet" meks are not that great. They
even miss the more obvious variants such as the Awesome -1 PPC, +1 Large
Laser, +2 HS which is the most common Awesome that I know of.
 There are also some odd typos such as the "advanced arm mounted CASE" for
the Highlander and the "Non-flippable arms" of the Rifleman. But hey
tournies are fought with them and we have to live with it.

This has been....
 Tony Taia
   TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
3029: When Max got a housecall from Doc Morgan :)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:09:39 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: A&A: ICs vs Transports

>There has recently been suggestion that Japan is better off
>building transports instead of building Industrial Complexes
>on the mainland.  I can see the effeciency arguments for 
>transports on a cost basis, but I think IC's are neccessary
>for a more important reason -- time.  Building infantry and
>shipping them accross by boat delays each infantry one turn
Perhaps we misread the rules.  The way we play, you can not build inf
with the factory the same turn you build the factory.  Since you can
build the inf the same turn you build the transport, there is no bonus
turn.  Furthermore, since you usually don't hold manchuria the first
turn, you can't build the factory in a good place.  Furthermore, you
have to build, or ship an AA gun, more time wasted.  Against good allied
play (i.e. bring over their original bombers when you build a factory,
attack Manchuria...) there is no competition.  Furthermoe, the
efficiency is important, if I build 4 inf, and you build 3, next turn I
have one more advanced inf than you do.
>as compared to building them directly on the continent.
>Building and shipping tanks is even worse, since if built
>on the continent they can move two areas towards the
Does not seem different, I have to build them 1 turn before you.  Since
my building is more efficient, AA gun, no 1 turn wait, etc, this is no
problem.  I do like a factory for tanks later (in India or Manchuria)
since they build 3, and transports get over 2.  India is good since it
is advanced.
>front right after being built.  (Sometimes this means they
>can be in active combat immediately.)  
The threat mobile threat the transports cause (i.e. 7 loaded transports
go to Alaska when the US want to build more inf on east coast) also
helps Germany survive.

>Time is of critical importance because the game for the axis
>is a race against time -- Germany is going to fall, the question
>is how long will it take?  Japan has to put pressure on Russia
Yes this is correct.
>as quickly as possible, and that one turn delay in getting
>units on continent -- especially the tanks -- can be critical.

The tanks are not as crucial as the inf, inf take hits better both on
offense and defense, and Japan has lots of planes.  Certainly Japan
wants tanks at some point, but not until at least turn 4 (at least
against good allied play, i.e. immediately attack Japan twice).

>-David
>(dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com)


Erik
---=
From: stevena@triangle.Berkeley.EDU (Steven Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Scrabble Franklin Mint set & Tournament(was Re: Monopoly DELUXE
Date: 7 Nov 1992 06:22:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.berkeley.edu

In article <BxBz59.Jyt@access.digex.com> hacker@access.digex.com (Dark Hacker) writes:
>
>Anyone seen the "Deluxe Edition" of the popular Monopoly board game by
>Parker Brothers?  The "board" is actually a mhogony frame, with gold or
>silver plated tokens, extra special neato printed money etc etc.  And
>the cost is (gasp) $500.  So does anyone actually HAVE one of these and
>are they any good (quality wise)?  Is it worth the money?

The Franklin Mint has also put one of these things out for Scrabble.
It's not fit for serious play, but to promote it the Franklin Mint is
giving one away at a tournament they're sponsoring November 21-22, 1992
in Franklin Center, PA.

For information, contact Ron Tiekert, (212) 689-4046 (entry required
by 11/14/92).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Steven Alexander
Comp Sci grad student                           stevena@cs.berkeley.edu
& non-practicing lawyer extraordinaire
{I'm really wonderful at not practicing}
Lines: 70
From: rleroux1@sol.UVic.CA (Roger Leroux)
Subject: Re: Classic games...
Organization: University of Victoria
Distribution: na
Date:  9 Nov 92 10:02:23 GMT

In <9770139@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> wlw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Will Walker) writes:
(and Stephan O'Sullivan wrote in >>)
>> >Stellar Conquest
>> 
>> I don't think so.

>Stellar Conquest inspired a lot of imitation.  Unless it is itself an
>imitation, in which case the game it was derived from should be on the
>list.  Many play-by-mail games and computer games are so much like
>stellar conquest that it's almost sad.  At any rate SC is the base of
>a whole branch of the hobby, so I think it goes on the list.

Definitely agreed. We still play it around these parts, and maybe it's just
our particular gaming group, but the closer we get to the end of the game,
the faster the turns go (I guess it's partly because in the end game you're
needing to do less bookkeeping and R&D and more buying units).

>> >Dungeons and Dragons
>> >Diplomacy
>> >Ogre

Definitely classics...

Roger
-- 
Roger Leroux          | "If money can't buy love, why do all dates start 
rleroux1@sol.uvic.ca  |	 at the bank machine?" - Bud Dry tv commercial.
----------------------+ "Everybody lies about sex." Lazarus Long
Be seeing you. DoD#43 | "Six of one, half a dozen of the other." Number 2.
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: BTECH: Coolant Flamer
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:48:27 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec

From: miurad@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (D. Miura)

> :) Well, I did ask for it... <g> So, what might be a better ruling on this?
> After all, this is BTech... we aren't interested in Reality.
> The description of the Coolant Truck does seem to be a bit high on the
> 'background color' side.

I'm too lazy to look it up (actulally I'm hurting bad), but Solaris VII
has a rule for cooling system. It's used by the BossMan 'Mech. That
should do.
> -- 
> -miurad@prism.cs.orst.edu
> If there is a method to my madness, then I must be mad.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stephane I. Matis |  E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca  | Viva NeXTSTEP 3.0 ! |
|.............................................................................|
|------------ bla bla Mecha*Press bla bla Dream Pod 9 blabla FASA ------------|
| BATTLETECH ----------------------------------------------------- NeXThead ! |
|------------ aka : Major Adrian Hammerhand, WolfNet Intelligence ------------|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: hottenro@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Bertrand Hottenroth)
Subject: Re: Viceroys - review wanted
Originator: hottenro@hphalle5h.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:50:08 GMT
Distribution: na


I bought that game from a friend a while ago.

I played it only once, because I didn't really enjoy it too much.
I find it to be a rather dumb beer and pretzels game;
But then, I am rather into historical simulations.

The game is IMHO too heavy depending on die-rolls, making tactics secondary.
The most serious flaw seems for me to be the fact that, unlike old 
Columbus, you know from the beginning how the world card looks like.
Such a design is just dumb. 

How much suspense and fun could a game about this period ( Columbus etc. ) give,
if it weren't so cheaply & superficially made!
 
 Crassvs 

(Please excvse bad English)
From: pca8c@Virginia.EDU ("Phil Abel")
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: A&A - Can Allies ever win (II)
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:55:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: Virginia.1992Nov9.205538.11895
Organization: University of Virginia

It's difficult to determine a good "general" strategy for the
allies because so many of their decisions are based on
responding to the axis. However, a few ideas...

The Soviet first move is fairly clear: Maintain Karelia at all
costs, hit Germany in either Ukraine or Eastern Europe on first
turn, hit Japan on the first turn and buy time in Asia,
transfer naval units to Britain. If you're playing 2nd ed. and
don't allow USSR to attack, then build up heavily in Karelia
and string a couple reinforcements out east.

Germany would then be wise to hit all the British sea units
and attempt to muster most of its units for a big attack on the
Soviets. This will strain most of their forces to their limits.

British have many options: try to build an IC in India (I've
also been succesful with an IC in Finland-Norway), keep some
bombers handy to industrial raid Germany every turn, attempt to
build a navy. My personal favourite is to attempt to get an IC
in India. However, British strategy is very reactionary: you
have to see what the axis do first.

US: An IC in China is good, but often impossible to do because
of Japanese threat. Building a pacific fleet is a good option,
but really doesn't keep Japan that busy. A steady stream of
troops from eastern US to Africa or Finland-Norway or both is
often very effective. If the US can neutralize German threat in
Africa and give a little help to the Soviets, they are doing
their part in Europe. Spending a couple turns building up for a
massive attack on Western Europe is also potentially harmful to
the Axis.

Good luck with your future games and long live Axis and Allies.
I've been playing it for about 7 years now and still eagerly
look forward to any opportunity to play it. A truly superior
game.