HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lsmith@atto.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Talking to Death (Was Re: Valiant Issues)
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:28:36 GMT

In <2JAN199319272181@udel.edu> jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle) writes:

E. Holden wrote: 

>>....There's no such thing as enough Sandman.

>	Yes, but there is such a thing as talking a subject to death. I'm not 
>flaming anyone, but recent threads for Sandman have had everyone trying to 
>guess where Destruction was; isn't it enough to let the writer tell the story,
>or is it more fun to second-guess him?

Of course, the threshold for when we talk a subject to death is not well-
defined. I find any discussion of some of the intricacies of the X-titles
to be talking those subject to death. However, to people that follow the 
books, things like who the X-traitor is or what power a given mutant has or 
had are very important and intiguing topics.

I think speculation of what will happen in any given series, is a big part
of most of the discussion that happens in this group. I mean we can either
review or speculate and most reviews only happen the first two weeks after 
an issue comes out. That gives us more time to speculate. With a title
like Sandman, that's in the middle of a nine month story, (along with the
big story that's ongoing in the series) you have to expect some guessing at
where the author is really heading with the story. For many of us, that's
a good deal of the fun of reading the book.

On the whole I'm a little uncomfortable with any thread that seeks to
limit a given topic of discussion. It's not like we discuss one series
only at the expense of another. If there's interest in a given topic,
people will discuss it. If there isn't interest, it will sink quickly.
(Trust me. I've launched several lead topics.) The Invisible Hand of 
Comicdom is always at work.

ObReview: Sam & Max fans might want to look for the latest issue of 
Fast Forward. It contains a story by Purcell called Toybox. No Sam & Max,
but the artwork is great and it's the usual mixture of weird and funny.
Actually, I found it somewhat disturbing. 

-----------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "Hello. Are you the spokesman for Planters
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  peanuts? Yes? I'm afraid my family takes the 
   I hope you don't mind    |  nut very seriously and you're cutting into our
   if I sit this one out    |  business"    _Nuts: The Other Amy Fisher Story_
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC: Jurgens leaving JLA - Yea!
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:40:05 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <34711@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU> wchong@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Will) writes:
>	I just read over in Bill Hayes' Comics-L that DC upper management
>was not satisfied with Jurgens performance on JLA and that his last issue
>will be in April or May.

>		REJOICE!

Why?  It's just the Justice League.  The Justice League has been a mediocre
book (bordering on being a joke) since JLA #200.

>	No word on who will be taking over....please let Giffen & DeMatteis
>come back.  If not, I'd like to see Ostrander, Alan Grant, Bill Loebs, or
>Roger Stern have a shot at it.

If Giffen comes back, that would certainly give me reason to cut back on my
comics list.

It would be interesting to see Ostrander do it, but I think that the JLA
without Superman-Batman-Flash_Green Lantern-Wonder Woman-Aquaman-Green
Arrow-Hawkman-Atom and the lot is kind of pointless.  Once DC's Big Names
couldn't be the lynchpins of the group, it lost its relevance, I felt.

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI
( Now in the Boston, Massachusetts area! )

"If I had enough money I'd buy a round for that boy over-there,
 A companion in my madness in the mirror, the one with the silvery hair.
 If some kind soul could please pick up my tab
 And while they're at it if they could please pick up my broken heart."
					- Marillion, "That Time Of The Night"
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: X-Factor #87 (was Re: Why does PAD *stay* on the net?)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 02:14:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com () writes:
>X-Factor #87, for example (the current issue) grew out of the sense I was
>getting that readers were not clear on what was making these characters
>tick.  *I* knew, and I was trying to communicate it in a subtle fashion.
>Unfortunately, most readers of mutant titles seem accustomed to the 
>sledge-hammer method of characterization (long angst-ridden internal
>monologues).  Since I was disdaining that approach, readers seemed to assume
>that all the characterizations were superficial.  So I decided I wanted to
>get across what was really below the surface of the characters, but without
>using the usual aforementioned LARIM.  Hence the psychiatrist set-up.
>
>Considering that Joe Quesada arrived on the book and I informed him that
>his first issue was going to be 22 slam-bang pages of therapy, I thought he
>took it rather well...
>
>PAD

Hey, I thought Joe Quesada rose to the occasion really well in his
debut on your title.  He handles character expression and body language
with substantial meaning--a quality he showed in "The Ray" along with
the spectacular action and movement sequences he drew.  I was looking
forward to his working with you and it's paying off straight out of the
gate.

Sad to learn the truth about Guido.  It makes his character all the
more interesting to see his recognition that there's better ways to
live than wallowing in angst.

--James Langdell       jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems     Mountain View, Calif.



Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: LSH #40, Squires and pages....
Organization: Interleaf
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:07:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.041425.22330@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes:
>remove the weight.  Who's the green dude?  Pulsar Stargrave?

Spoilers after the ^L

According to the blurb in the latest Previews, the green dude is the Martian
Manhunter. It would explain why he was at Chuck and Luronu's wedding back
in Superboy and the Legion #200.

"We have seen pictures [of Mars] where there are canals, we believe, and water.
If there is water that means there is oxygen.  If oxygen, that means we can
breathe." --Dan "in charge of the National Space Commission" Quayle
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: wesselak@sunc0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak)
Subject: Re: Top Ten DC Slogans
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 05:09:07 GMT

YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:

>>1.  The New DC: Can't _Anybody_ Stop Us?"
>>2.  The New DC: It's A Cry For Help
>>3.  The New DC: We Figured, "Hey, Why Not?"
>>4.  The New DC: Because You Can't Spell "Disappointing Crap" Without DC!
>>5.  The New DC: Stop Us Before We Plot Again!
>>6.  The New DC: A Mandate For Change
>>7.  The New DC: 40's Continuity, 60's Plotting, 90's Marketing
>>8.  The New DC: Reminding Gaiman Why He Kept Creative Control
>>9.  The New DC: Next Month -- Dark Phoenix!!
>>10. The New DC: Just Cause We _Can_
>>
> 
> 11: The New DC: We killed them before, we'll kill them again!

How about...

12:  The New DC:  Because readers can't remember more than 12 months back!

or...

     The New DC:  Appealing to the new reader and screwing the old!

Erik
-- 
| "'Who did YOU sleep with to reach   | "There's been some      __| /  |__    |
| the top of the food chain!?!'"      |  trouble in London"     __|<  /|__    |
|  --Leonard the Roach,               |                           | \/ |      |
| Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children |  Erik: wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu     |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dml@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia)
Subject: Re: Sam & Max
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:28:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.005919.27735@news2.cis.umn.edu> lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:

>The Sam and Max series made it into the preview book that Marvel gave out
>to their retailers. It sounds like each issue will be partly Sam and Max 
>and partly other stuff that Purcell wants to do. 

Sorry to sound clueless, but is this each issue of what?  The limited series?

>As for other products, so far I've seen the S&M T-shirt, the Sam and Max
>Pin, the Max Pin, and the "Protected by Sam & Max" window sticker. No
>word on plush toys yet. Do the people who get the LucasFilm flier have
>anything else to report?

Can you give a small description of the t-shirt, and maybe an address to
write to to order it?

thanks,

dave
From: lsmith@atto.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Comics Journal editor trashes Sandman!
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:15:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Fantagraphic Squids of the Poor

In article <1993Jan3.030104.5919@julian.uwo.ca> larocqu@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (JOHN LAROCQUE) writes:
>Just in from the latest Cerebus for all you Gary Groth/Comics Journal fans
>out there (Cerebus #165 letters page):

How come everyone always gets their copy of Cerebus a week before I do? It's
just not fair!

>Kim Thomsom writes
>
>"PS. I've read Sandman, but I don't much care for it. Is this a more
>serious or less serious sin?"

Hmmm, there's an interesting story floating around. It seems that Neil
Gaiman was being interviewed by the good folx at Comics Journal. (Wasn't
he supposed to be interviewed by Dave McKean and vice versa?) Anyway at
one point the interviewers reach a slight stumbling block: They haven't
bothered to read Sandman. Anyway a search of the bullpen is made to 
find someone who has read the title.

Fast forward a bit. Gaiman receives a letter from the friendly Comics Journal
folx saying, "Gee, we read your comic book and we'd like to do a second
follow-up interview." At this point, Mr G politely declines.   

No idea of the truth of the story or all of the details. I will say that
it came from a fairly reliable source. Perhaps Carl Fink can pester Neil
about its accuracy.

>Come to think about it, this magazine condemns Marvel, DC, Image, Valiant etc.
>and where only Fantagraphics artists are true masters (soon to be one less
>with the departure of Stan "Usagi Yojimbo" Sakai. Mirage lives!)

I tend to enjoy the Comics Journal. My reading enjoyment, however, might be 
dependent on my unwillingness to read the editorial contents.

------------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith   | "According to several witnesses, the first words 
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)      |  of the Team Planters rider after his collapse
 Identify the reference and  |  were, 'Put me back on the bike.'"
  appear in a future .sig.   |      _Mr Peanut and the Blue and Yellow Jersey_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: DID DOOMSDAY DIE?
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 05:43:04 EST

ibanez@ac.dal.ca writes:

>    The easiest way for DC to bring back Supes is to say that he was cloned
> at some point, and the clone took over his place - hence the clone was the
> one who dies fighting Doomsday. I don't read Superman, but I'm sure they coul
> find some way to say this happened.

This is living proof that "easiest" doesn't mean "best".

> 
> buy such crap. Anyway, I have oone question - did Doomsday die as well?

So everyone seems to believe.  I found that what actually happened to 
both Superman and Doomsday was obscure - deliberately so.  My impression 
was that they broke each other's necks, but we don't know for sure 
exactly what happened.  Both have been pronounced dead.  That's all we do 
know for sure.

> 
> After reading Alan Moore's last Superman story and the Dark Knight Returns,
> this 'death' story surprised me in that it was much worse than I imagined it
> would be.
>     _   ___
>    / `-'  (              III       
>    |( II  ||||||||||||||[***]           1978 MusicMan Stingray
>    \_.-.__(               l               Thanks Leo (R.I.P.)
> 
>                "BASS IS SOME SERIOUS SHIT" - Bill Laswell
>  ____________________________________________________________________________
>  ____________________________________________________________________________


Clearly you haven't been reading Superman lately if you expected quality 
like that.  The Death story was, I thought, somewhat better than the run 
of the comic has been -- which says something about that series.

It could be worse. It has been worse.  I will even go out on a limb and 
say it will be worse again in future.  

I only hope it will sometimes be better, too.


Namaste,
Elizabeth

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: SANDMAN:Lucien's Library
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 21:50:12 EST

>> eja@carr3.acpub.duke.edu (Eric Akawie) writes...
>>
>> >What books do YOU want to read out of Lucien's Library.  Let's assume
>> >he's got a comic book section and an AV department too.
>>
 
   A copy of my (completed) dissertation.  Heaven knows, I have enough
nightmares about it.
 
*******************************************************************
 
     I got remote control and a color TV
     I don't change the channels so they must change me.
 
     I need a doctor for my pressure pills
     I nned a lawyer for my medical bills
     I need a banker to finance my home
     I need security to back my loan
 
     I shouldn't bitch
     I shouldn't cry
     I'd start a revolution but I don't have time.
 
          Junsok Yang (YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Better Death of Supe
Keywords: "Lousiest Comic Book in the Universe!"
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:55:17 GMT
Organization: Miskatonic U. Computer Operations & User Services

atchampion@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu writes:

>Anybody seen the one-issue giant-sized comic book that came out
>a while back called "Destroy"?

>THAT'S the way the final battle should've been staged!

"Thank goodness no one was hurt!"

I thought that *was* how the Supes/Dooms final battle was staged.

-- 
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,

Chris Jarocha-Ernst			Rutgers University Computing Services
Internet: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu       BITnet: JAROCHAERNST@ZODIAC
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Good Omens, Crisis, and Watchmen (*spoilers*)
Date: 2 Jan 1993 18:10:55 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <2JAN199303094648@utkvx3.utk.edu> canevit@utkvx3.utk.edu (Canevit, Craig E.) writes:
>and I was wondering about the ending:
>
>
Spoilers


>Namely, in each of the aforementioned titles, a Really Big Event occurs.
>Sort of. Afterwards, nobody, or at least very few people are aware of 
>what happened. You've seen this before, in several old JLA's and in at

>Is it merely a
>dice of comics or science fiction?    Just curious...


	IMHO, comics companies do things like that because the real
world implications of the event would change the face of humanity
to such an extent that they really couldn't keep Earth the same afterwords.
Ferinstance, in Infinity Gauntlet, half the population of the universe
is erased, and then brought back.  In Crisis (Infinity -5) universes were
destroyed, and then the remaining 5 were merged into one.  
	Such catastrophic events, even to a population jaded to the existance
of aliens and magical beings, would probably drive the populace mad.  
-- 
Rick Jones		"People come back from the dead all the time.  I mean,
albert@bcm.tmc.edu	 I've come back from the dead.  I bet you have to!"
Systems Support Center	"Well... Yes, I have.  But I AM a professional."
Voice: 713-798-7352	       -Rick Jones and Dr Strange, Incredible Hulk #399
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jacob@tcs.com (Jacob Butcher)
Subject: Clone Stories (Re: "Sunk the Lowest" Award for 1992)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:10:43 GMT

ultron@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew H Krieg) writes:
>LSH - 	       Someday, somehow, someone will return to us the Legion of
>	       old.  Has there ever been a good comic story involving clones?
>	       If so, I've yet to find it.

[Obligatory flame: I finally dropped the LSH when they blew up the Earth,
after 20 years of following the book.  I feel old.]

Good clone stories:
	The Goodwin/Simonson Manhunter series in Detective in the early 70s.
		The protagonist keeps fighting clones of himself. (After the
		character was killed, they used one of his clones to continue
		the character for a few issues of Secret Society of Super-
		Villains, which seemed perfectly fair, as it was a logical
		continuation of the existing gimmicks.)
	The DNAliens stories in Jimmy Olsen approx 133-150.  Giant Jimmys.
		Tiny Jimmys.  Kryptonite Jimmys.  Great fun.
	The Gwen Stacy clone story from Amazing Spider-Man 140ish.  The first
		significant clone-as-returns-from-dead story, as far as I
		know, and well handled.  The clone didn't remember the last
		few months of her life, couldn't really replace the dead
		original, and exited stage left once everything was explained,
		since she didn't want to deal with anyone who'd know her
		before her originator's death.

Frankly, the LSH clone plot is not a bad one, although it is not really
appropriate to the book, since it pushes the story in all sorts of wrong
directions.  And, of course, the Bierbaums have done their usual stellar
job of botching what potential the idea had.

					~jacob
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: I'm bored - gimme something to read
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 08:49:38 EST

derrick@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Derrick Rowlandson) writes:

> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:
> 
> >- Bone.
> >  A must-read for anyone with an interest in comics as a continuum of 
> >history, a medium, a rich genre.
> 
> Maybe, but try finding an issue of Bone in your average DC/Marvel comic
> book store. ie: I'd like to try it, but have no source for it.
> 
You can order it from the creator.  The address is: 
        BONE
        c/o Cartoon Books
        P.O. Box 212
        Worthington, OH
        U.S.A.  43085
Issues cost $2.85 each.  Besides, they should be able to get it at your 
regular comics shop if you askt he manager.

Namaste,
Elizabeth


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: larocqu@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (JOHN LAROCQUE)
Subject: Joe Kubert at Marvel! (part II)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 18:04:21 GMT

Forget Whilce, Jim, Todd and the rest of those guys. Marvel has a hot "new"
artist that is bigger than all of these guys: Joe Kubert!

Epic is brining back the classic dino/caveman comic Tor - a character that
Kubert has copyright too. 

Oh, and don't miss Spirits of Vengeance #7 and #8. 

And you thought the new guys could draw! This seasoned comics veteran who
brought into the world Andy and Adam and has trained countless professionals
- Truman, Veitch, Bissette, is now back doing "the big 2" comics again.

Pilgrims, make mine Marvel!

-- 
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**
**  John LaRocque         **   "If you're the new messiah.. I'm going to be  **
**  marshall.law@uwo.ca   **   the one to drive in the nails"  MARSHALL LAW  **
***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**
From: derrick@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Derrick Rowlandson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: I'm bored - gimme something to read
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:27:18 GMT

panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:

>Nonsense!  You left out all sorts of good ones:

>- Bone.
>  A must-read for anyone with an interest in comics as a continuum of 
>history, a medium, a rich genre.

Maybe, but try finding an issue of Bone in your average DC/Marvel comic
book store. ie: I'd like to try it, but have no source for it.

dr
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: I'm bored - gimme something to read
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 09:40:19 EST

jed@matilda.vut.edu.au (Jed Bowtell) writes:

> I agree, Spawn is overrated. McFarlane's writing has not
> improved, it has gone downhill.

This was my impression.  Sad but true.

> >- Grendel: War Child
> >  It's downright brilliant, in the classic Matt Wagner style.
> 
> I have all the issues so far but have only read the first.
> I was not overly impressed. This could be due to the fact
> that I have neveer read a grendel story before.

I would suggest that you (a) read the other issues of Grendel: War Child 
and get back issues of GRENDEL and MAGE.  It's one of the best comics 
ever.

'Course it might not be to your taste.  But I think it's magnificent 
storytelling and very compelling.  And there's more there than meets the 
eye on the first glance.

> 
> >- Doom Patrol
> >  If you're in the mood for clever nonsense (in contrast to vacuous 
> >nonsense).  I little goes a long way, but it is very, very clever.
> 
> I tried it and didn't like it much. I suppose one issue
> was not enough (it was issue 50, supposedly a good place
> for new readers to start).

I don't think there is *any* good place for a new reader to start.  Sort 
of like Cerebus.  You have to be in the mood for non-linear thought.

> Yes, this is one of the best comics around, along with Hepacats.

I find HEPCATS hard to find.  The only time I ever see it is when I go to 
the San Diego con and MArtin Wagner is there.  I have it on my 
subscription list at the Silver Snail but it *never* turns up.  Has there 
been a new issue since August?

> >- The Desert Peach
> >  One of the most concept-rich, profound, thoughtful comics on the 
> >market.
> 
> I have heard a lot about it but can never find it.
> 
Have you tried asking your store manager about it?  If not, ask again 
here, and I'm sure I or someone can give you the address to order it.

Namaste,
Elizabeth



Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Asterix: American Translations!
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 09:48:05 EST

rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

> This is interesting...  I have a real tough time finding Asterix books
> in San Diego, so I head up to Juneau, a small town in Alaska, and of
> course one of the local stores has piles of the things.  I had them
> all already, but I did find something interesting...

This is strange.  Why Juneau?  In Ottawa, Asterix can be hard to find in 
English in hardcover, but the paperback English edition - British 
editions - are easy to find in children's books.  I haven't checked 
translators lately.

> First, the bad news.  Everyone but Asterix, Obelix, and Dogmatix have
> new names.  This is to be somewhat expected, as all translations

Heresy!  Actually, I think they should leave Dogmatix untranslated from 
the French - "Ideefix" is a hilarious name for a dog.

> 
> Vitalstatistix is now Macroeconomix, Getafix is Magigimmix, and
> Cacopohonix is now Malacoustix.

Maybe not so heretical.  Those are good names.... well, two out of three 
are good names.  (Getafix is an incredibly funny name that couldn't be 
improved on, and Magicimmix is awful.  Just awful.)

> 


Namaste,
Elizabeth