From: lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: I became pro-life...and pro-choice...
Organization: NRL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:43:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.005152.24701@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes:
>In article <C0GByD.DA4@ra.nrl.navy.mil> lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil writes:
>}In article <1993Jan5.150542.15081@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
>}gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes:
>
>}I found your last post enlightening and somewhat saddening.  You seem to base
a
>}large part of you life's philosophy on the failure of laws to overcome human
>}nature.  One can follow your reasoning for awhile and ultimately conclude
that
>}anarchy is the way to go.  
>
>One might conclude that anarchy is the way to go.  I don't base a large
>part of my life's philosophy on the failure of law to overcome human 
>nature, however.  I simply haven't the faith that some have that law
>can overcome human nature. 

> .... I think if you look at what
>even convicted felons say you will find that they are much more 
>concerned about enforcement and post-arrest processing than they
>are about any particular legislation. 

The fact that felons are concerned about enforcement seems a strong argument in
favor of legislation.

I would hardly charactarize women who have abortions today as being felons.  I
mean "felons" in the sense that living outside the law is a way of life. Making
abortion difficult to obtain will make women look towards other, non-lethal,
options.  
>
>}I am very pro-legislation  against abortion.  
>
>It seems that quite a number of people are, although I am at a loss
>to understand what they base their "pro" feelings on.  And I have
>asked for evidence for years...

I will allow you your "realism" if you allow me my optimism in believing that
if abortion were made illegal it could not be done without accompanying
legislation forcing strict accountabilty by the father as well as real support
programs for single pregnant woman and mothers.


>
>}A very good case can be made for the legalization of drugs.  People come up
>}with "practical" reasons why legalization wouldn't work, but I think we all
>}know that the real reason drugs aren't legal is the old "we don't want to
send
>}the wrong message" bugaboo.  
>
>I'm not at all sure of that.  The reason drugs aren't legal may be a 
>bit more sinister than that.  I'm not convinced at all that people pay
>much attention to the message, if any, that legal status of anything
>might send.

Politicians do.  

>
>}Could you think of a society where murder were legal??  Think about it. Yes,
>}the laws probably don't stop anyone from murder, but...
>
>I have thought about it.  As others will affirm, I am not particularily
>opposed to the legality of "murder," nor would I be particularily afraid
>if "murder" were to be legal. 

I'm don't at all see where that indifference comes from.  There are some
extremely desensitized people out there who have no inhibition but the law
preventing them from the easy kill.  That inhibition my be impotent a lot of
the time, but thank God for the times it makes the potential murderer think
twice.
 
>
>}In
>}my life I try very hard to alleviate the suffering of women.  There are ways
to
>}do it, it's no where near as easy as snuffing out the life of the offending
>}child, but it can be done.  
>
>That's a nice sentiment, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the
>legal status of abortion.  Or do you believe (wrongly, I might add) that
>those who are pro-choice also advocate abortion?

1)  That wasn't my point.  I was addressing the scenario where a women who
can't find access to abortion could still have here difficulties dealt with by
a caring society.

2) I feel that from a the standpoint of net-effect on the unborn, whether you
call yourself "pro-abortion" or "pro-choice" makes no difference.  To say for
instance, "I'm against dumping raw sewage in the lake and would never do it,
but its OK for you to choose to do it" doesn't help the pro-choicer's property
values one bit.
>
>
>