From: jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Ohio State Football - No fun, no future to it's players and recruits
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:52:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute -- EOL

In article <1993Jan5.020107.14028@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mzhao@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Min Zhao) writes:
>
>In article <79071@hydra.gatech.EDU> jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch) writes:
>>So when Ohio State wins, the team gets the credit, but when they lose,
>>Cooper takes the blame?
> 
>    When Ohio State wins, the team and Cooper get the credit, when they
>lose, the team and Cooper share the lesson.

This is an interesting comment, in light of your previous posted statement
about OSU's recent winning records not counting for anything since they
weren't accompanied by conference championships or bowl wins.

>    If the young kids don't play well, you teach them and make them improve.
>If the coach is proven unable to teach the kids play well, then the coach
>is unfit in that capacity. That's that simple. 

It's hardly that simple.

College football players do a lot of other things besides practice and
play football.  Many of these activities can have an adverse effect
on their play, and short of regimenting their lives completely, there
is little a coach can do to control them.  All they can do is train
the players in how to perform, and see that they have every chance to
do well.

Sometimes coaches fail their players, and sometimes players fail their
coaches.  To say that when players fail, it is automatically the 
fault of the coach, is patently unfair.  

>    When Lawrence Funderburke could not play well under Bobby Knight, Bobby 
>Knight failed in Funderburke's case. In Indiana, you don't fire Knight just
>because he failed in Funderburke's case, (Knight is a proven capable coach,
>all in all), so Funderburke goes.  

I'd assert that Cooper is a proven capable coach too (look at his record
at Tulsa and Arizona State).  Claiming that one coach is capable and 
that another is unproven or incapable, is highly subjective and certainly 
debatable.

>    When class after class can't play well under Cooper, Cooper failed. 
>In Ohio State you don't abandon the football program, so Cooper should go.
>(Cooper is a incapable coach, all in all)
>
>   I hope I have made myself clear.

You have.  I (and I suspect others) simply disagree with your argument.
I'd assert that his players have played well, although possibly not
well enough to suit his detractors.

>> And when Miami loses, it's not the coach's fault.
> 
>  Miami was outplayed, and outcoached by Alabama

Well, I rather doubt there is growing pressure to fire Erikson.

>>Here again, many people don't view the Ohio State program as a failure.
> 
>   And probably more people do.

In your opinion.

>>Nor do they presume to speak for prep stars, as you appear to above.
> 
>  No, I don't. I was just presenting a perspective. And what I see is 
>not that ridiculous nor unimaginable. Most prep stars want to go to
>a winning program. When you decide to go to Ohio State, you think 
>about playing Michigan, you think about Big Ten championship and Rose
>Bowl. And you think about it, think about it, and you look at it, look at 
>it, and you see, Ohio State and Cooper can't beat Michigan, can't win
>Big Ten, can't go to Rose Bowl.  And you think about the programs in
>Michigan, in Norte Dame, and you see they do win games of significance,
>and this thinking does fact into the kid's decision.

Fortunately, there are numerous other considerations which go into
a kid's decision.  Things like a team's depth at a certain position,
a school's closeness to home, a player's desire to play where his
father or other family members played, the desire to play for a 
team you supported as you grew up, and numerous other factors come
into the picture.

It's a matter of opinion, of course, but speaking as a person who
went to high school in Ohio, and who had numerous friends who played 
football, I really doubt that most of the best prospects wanted to 
go to Michigan simply because Ohio State has lost to them several
years in a row.

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^  Dr. J(effrey Neil Burch)                 jb118@prism.gatech.edu    ^
^  Georgia Tech Research Institute                                    ^ 
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