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From: HESSJX@UNCG.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: answer to "Who are you?"
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:07:31 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
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When I sent my original post I was wondering how the rest of you felt
about having found your niche in the sciences.  I get the feeling that,
like myself, most of you don't feel like you fit in.  Like someone else
said, Dev, I believe, we are expected to be specialists in many areas.  I have
also shared the experience of being an animal care tech, psychologist, biologist
   ,chemist, and even physicist and engineer on occassion.  I spent a full 18
months trying to master the engineering feats of setting up a rack for
electrophysiology, computer programming to collect my data, and electronics
interfacing all to no avail--by the time I was getting close to having
isolated the noise, and mastered the task, my lab was shut down and
moved to a different floor where we are not allowed to do electrophysiology
(for security reasons).  In addition to all these woes, since I am in a
psychology dept. that has a fairly strict schedule for when we should pass
various landmarks in our graduate careers, I now run the risk of not
finishing my master's thesis by the critical end of 3rd year, and thus losing
my funding.  I have come to the conclusion that hybrid science simply requires
more time than any degree where you're not crossing boundaries.  I am interested
   to know if people like Kenn @ Univ of Md who are in true neuroscience program
   s
have at least a more sympathetic audience.  I just met for a discussion with
one of our cognitive faculty last night who said that there is no reason
psychology--cognitive Psy, in particular should care about neuroscience.  He
says there is no reason he should even care about the underlying mechanisms
of memory (NEURAL mechanisms)  and says that when I go to look for a job I
will not be able to justify why my work is important.  Anyway, I am about to
conclude that to grow and be successful maybe we need to move away from this
interdisciplinary approach and make neuroscience in it's own right--even at
the undergraduate level.  What do you think?
Jennifer
Psychology Dept. UNC-Greensboro
subspecialty "neuroscience/psychobiology/animal behavior??"
From: zorrilla@CATTELL.PSYCH.UPENN.EDU ((Eric Zorrilla))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Eric's query
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:22:59 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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Posted-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 17:22:59 EDT
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              Oct 14, 92 10:25 am

What is your lab's general thinking about the relative preference of
systemic, ICV, cannula administration.  Obviously, to some degree, it
depends on the research question.  Still, interpretation of systemic
administration seems so problematic as to render it almost useless.  You're
flooding a multi-noded system with supraphysiological amounts of something
in a manner that it wasn't evolved to make sense of.  I'm thinking, for
instance, of the enormous complexity in distribution, tissue-specific
plasticity, etc. of glucocorticoid receptors in the brain and neuroendocrine
system and the difficulty associated with making sense of changes following
adrenalectomy (cuts off major source of systemically distributed cortico-
sterone).  With such an intricate system, how can we better make conclusions
about INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS of the circuit?

Eric
From: GALLOGLY@CWU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Masters vs. PhD courses
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:34:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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Michael Marsiske writes...

>I too have noticed that many PhD programs seems to require incoming MS
>students to take as many "core courses" as incoming BS students.  I don't
>really have a problem with this this.
>
>If a department makes the claim to have "doctorally prepared" you, they
>need to be able to say that you have achieved competence and mastery in
>a variety of areas.  The only way to ensure this, in my view, is to make
>sure you take their course offerings in those areas.

I don't think so.  I'm not saying that a student coming in with a Masters
should only have to take the last half of the PhD, or whatever that school
requires after the Masters.  But I don't think I should have to retake specific
classes.  If CWU sees fit to give me credit for taking Applied Behavior
Analysis, that credit should transfer to UNM or wherever.  The test out option
doesn't really sit well with me, because I don't think testing someone 8 months
or two years after they took the course is a fair assessment.  If I've not
learned the material from the courses I have taken, that will show up in my
comps.  It is my opinion, based on the information I've been receiving from
the PhD programs I am considering, that my terminal Masters degree is quite a
bit more difficult and includes a much broader spectrum of psychology than the
first two years of most PhD programs.  I have no problems with taking first and
second year courses in a new program, if I did not take them in my Masters
program, but those classes I have already taken should be allowed to count
toward the requirements of the PhD.

Don Gallogly
GALLOGLY@CWU.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:45:04 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Dawn Hughes)" <dhughes@NOVAVAX.NOVA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: dissociation
              Oct 8, 92 9:35 am

HI

I'm still interested if any of you folks have used/seen/heard of the
DES - Dissociative Experiences Scale.  I am administering it to
self referred sexual abuse adult survivors at our clinic.  I'm
interested in doing some cross-validation studies and the like
with the data I've received.  Anyone else use this?????

Dawn


*****************************************************************
*  Dawn M. Hughes   [dhughes@novavax.nova.edu]     @   @        *
*  Center for Psychological Studies                  #          *
*  Nova University                                  ( )         *
*  Fort Lauderdale, FL                                          *
*                                                               *
* OF ALL THE THINGS I'VE LOST, I MISS MY MIND THE MOST!!!!!!    *
*****************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:34:26 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject: RE: neuropsycgradders
              16 Oct 1992 09:21:00 CDT from <B057RAYL@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>

On Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:21:00 CDT <B057RAYL@UTARLG.UTA.EDU> said:
>The meaning of cars?  Individual car differences!?!  This is great.  One
>of the really great things about psychology in genral and PSYCGRAD in
>particular is the diversity we have in viewing behavior.  There is still
>much to learn about this most complex of all phenomena.  Even as a
>neuroscientist, I have a hard time believing that someday "all" behavior
>will be reduced to neurophysiology.  Somehow it seems that you would lose
>sight of all of the higher order concepts of behavior that make psychology
>important in the first place.

I agree that all behavior will never be explained by neurophysiology
or even neuropsychology.  There will always be one higher level to
for which we could attempt to account.

I missed the original reference, but the behavior of a car is not
limited to explanations of its construction.  There is also past and
present environmental influence on the mechanism.  The real question
I find here is, what is the role of the person behind the wheel?

Do we classify this person's influence on the car as merely environmental
influences?  What do we say of the person's intentions?

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:36:24 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Kenneth V. White" <kwhite@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Beer?

Alright already!  Enough of this feet dragging!  For everyone who's
been bugging me privately and on Psycgrad about the beer, I have
only one thing to say:

Offer expires at Midnight tonight.  Anything after that, and tough cheese.

Or, if you prefer, there's this wonderful den of hedonism in upper
Georgetown called "The Grog and Tankard" -- just *sounds* yummy, huh?
Anyway, tonight, THE DRINKS ARE ON ME!

Now get off my back, you drunken fools!

Kenn "they still haven't broken me, but it's early" White

:)
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: answer to "Who are you?"
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:08:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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 On 15 October 1992, Jennifer writes:

>I just met for a discussion with one of our
>cognitive faculty last night who said that there is
>no reason psychology--cognitive Psy, in particular
>should care about neuroscience.  He says there is
>no reason he should even care about the underlying
>mechanisms of memory (NEURAL mechanisms)  and says
>that when I go to look for a job I will not be able
>to justify why my work is important.

        That's true--you won't be able to justify it
to folks with the same opinion as your faculty
member.  But fortunately, his opinion is not the
only one out there!  And presumably the position
you'd be seeking will require neuroscience!  In the
immortal words of my baby brother (now a teenager,
by the way), "You gotta face it--there's always
gonna be somebody out there who thinks you're a jerk
or that what you do ain't worth nothin'.  Don't let
it bother you."  Sage words from a child of the 80's.


>Anyway, I am about to conclude that to grow and be
>successful maybe we need to move away from this
>interdisciplinary approach and make neuroscience in
>it's own right--even at the undergraduate level.
>What do you think?

I think that any more fragmentation of the field we
call Psychology will be the death of many of us
(academically speaking, that is!)  My vote is a
resounding NO!

--kathy Morgan
kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
From: G1603944@NMSUVM1.BITNET (Ben Birchfield)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: SPR meeting
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:40:26 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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Sorry I will not be attending the conference regarding your message. Hope that
you will find someone interest in attending the conference. Have a great weeken
d.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
From: jchason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Julie Chason)
Subject: Re: Cognitive & Brain Functioning
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:47:19 GMT

mmartin@ACS.UCALGARY.CA writes:

>Might I ask the brain researchers out there what good it does to
>identify what areas of the brain are activated when a person is
>reading, when we understand so little about what reading even is?

>I have nothing against this type of work, and worked as a
>undergrad in the lab of one of the finest in the field (Bryan
>Kolb or Ian Wishaw), but I feel that there is a long way to go in
>understanding what the software is that runs the whole system
>before needing to know all about the hardware.

>I try to keep up with what is going on in the neuropsychological
>field, because some of the limitations of cognitive processes
>will be the hardware component. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you just gave yourself an answer!

It's interesting, though, to see how you dichotomize mind (software) and
brain (hardware).  At what point do you see the two as being independent?
Is this anything like Cartesian dualism?  


I don't agree that you have to know everything about the "software" before
learning about the "hardware".  My understanding is that the neurophysiologists
need the psychologists to identify behavior for them to study at a 
neurological level, and that the psychologists need neurophysiologists 
so they understand the structure and physiology of the organisms they 
study (and so they can define more precisely how hardware and software
interact).


>Just my 2-cents







>Jesse Martin  mmartin@acs.ucalgary.ca
>--
From: joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU ((Margaret Joppa))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Cognitive & Brain Functioning
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:15:05 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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In response to Matthew's question, "to what extent is brain functioning helpful
and when is it not when thinking about other general areas of psychology such
as social psych?", I think you have a valid point there.  It is very difficult
to generalize from say, a neural pathway to social interaction or group behav-
ior.  However, knowing about the deficeits that occur in social behavior follow-
ing frontal lobe damage can be enlightening.  Additionally, if you study agg-
ression, you should understand its physiology and endocrinology, etc.  The
main point is, physiology can be as important as psychology for understanding
behavior, and I think physiological disorders can frequently be faulted for
behavioral disorders (eg, serotonin hypothesis of depression).
Margaret
From: jdbecker@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:15:49 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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Eric, although there are some problems with systemic drug
administration these have to be weighed against the problems of
other techniques. How much error is involved in say infusing 2-5
microlitres? In other words, systemic administration is much
easier. Furthermore, any invasive technique is bound to introduce
confounds and you are quite right that systemic administration is
perhaps not ideal, but infusion cannulae can also interupt fibers
en passage and thus controls should always be used when infusing.
To summarize then, one must be pragmatic in their approach to
drug administration since there is no ideal method of introducing
a (non-gas) drug that I am aware of.

As for defining "individual components" of a system a couple of
techniques come to mind. Of course one can always lesion brain
structures one thinks are involved in a functional pathway, or
one could infuse a local anaesthetic (eg. procaine) into a
structure one thinks is involved. Research into hippocampal theta
uses both of these techniques as the pathway appears to be one of
Pons - Hypothalamus - Septum - Hippocampus, or what Bland et al.
call the Ascending Hippocampal Synchronizing System (AHSS).

Gotta go! See ya!

Jason Becker (Behavioral Neuroscience Research Group, U of Calgary)
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Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:07:20 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Prull" <PRULLM@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject:      Cognitive & Brain Functioning

Ray Lopez writes:

>As far as I am concerned, it
>does no good to generate theories or hypotheses of cognitive
>function that have nothing to do with brain function.  These
>theories may have many important uses, but they will do little to
>help us understand human cognitive function.  Jennifer, you might
>want to remind this professor that the first indications of how
>human memory is organised came from clinical observations of brain
>damaged patients (e.g., H.M.).

No good whatsoever?  That seems a little extreme.  As a memory researcher
myself, am I obliged to provide a neural explanation for EVERY hypothesis
I generate in regards to human (or animal) memory?  I'm inclined to
believe that there is at least SOME utility in cognitive functioning
studies that don't particularly address neural substrates or basic
mechanisms of thought.

This isn't meant to be a flame, of course.  Indeed, neuropsychology is
important and complementary to cognitive research. For example, cases
of visual agnosia (the inability to name seen objects even though
visual acuity is completely intact) pose some really interesting
questions about the mental processes involved visual object recog-
nition.  In the realm of implicit memory, cognitive psychology and
neuropsychology go hand in hand.  In regards to the prof that Jennifer
spoke to, I would have to generally disagree with him or her...
are "no good" if they don't address brain functioning.  This might
pose an interesting question:  to what extent should is brain func-
tioning helpful and when is it not when thinking about other general
areas of psychology such as social psych?

Just some thoughts.

Matthew Prull
The Claremont Graduate School
Department of Psychology
130 E. 9th St.
Claremont, CA 91711

prullm@cgsvax.claremont.edu
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:40:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject: Email Etiquette: I'm Asking Ms/Mr. Manners!

Hi y'all!
        I have a friend who is on another bulletin board and who has a question
   about
whether or not to reply to a recent memo he was sent.  There was a lot of talk o
   n that
board about a subject that some readers apparently believed was not germane to t
   hat
bulletin board, and so they wrote to say that they were quitting.  Well, a few o
   ther
readers were upset by that kind of police action, and wrote about their concerns
   .  It
was at this point that my friend replied with a note of what he intended to be
consolation to those who were upset.  I believe that among other things he said
something to the effect of "Don't worry, anyone who would quit the network (for
   those
reasons) is probably an asshole anyway."
        I admit he stepped over a boundary a bit here, but here's a response tha
   t he
received:

>You are the asshole, I'm afraid.

>If you have nothing intelligent to say, please stop saying it on (name of bulle
   tin
board).

The person signed their name.  My friend is unhappy about the thought police, an
   d wants
to know how or if he should respond to this kind of memo.  It seems even MORE ov
   er the
boundary than my friend's comment.
        Any suggestions?  I will forward to him your replies.
        Thanks!
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
From: jdbecker@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Us 'Physiological' Folk
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:12:29 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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I will stand up and be counted (metaphorically speaking of
course). My name is Jason Becker and I am pursuing a MSc in
Behavioral Neuroscience at the U of Calgary. The research in our
lab (Dr. R. Sainsbury) investigates the noradrenergic involvement
in hippocampal theta - let me explain... Noradrenaline or
Norepinephrine as many of you know is a neurotransmitter; the
Hippocampus is a structure located in what many refer to as the
Limbic System; Theta is a sinusoidal waveform produced by the
Hippocampus (among other structures) with a frequency of about
4-12 Hz.

We primarily do chronic work with rats - that is, we surgically
implant recording electrodes into the rat's brain, and record
when the rat has recovered and is freely moving. Our paradigm
usually takes the form of: Baseline Hippocampal EEG recording -
Drug manipulation or Lesion - Postdrug/Postlesion Hippocampal EEG recording.

The drugs we use have their effect on the noradrenergic system
(i.e. noradrenergic agonists or antagonists or noradrenergic
neurotoxins). We analyze our data by Power-Spectral analysis
which gives us a number of meaningful measures from which we can
then perform statistical analysis.

Of course it is much more complicated than I have described it
here (the brain always is!), but I hope you get an idea of what
research we do here. If you have any questions regarding the
specifics of what was described above please do not hesitate to
post them under some subject heading I will recognize (e.g.
Theta) or write to me directly - jdbecker@acs.ucalgary.ca .

How about letting me and others know what research you are doing?

P.S.

My non-academic interests include astronomy and astrophysics,
film and 19th century Russian literature (Dostoyevsky, Gogol, etc.)
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:47:00 CDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "H. Huck" <XLM0HJH@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Chicago

Hi, Maryanne (spelling?).  I'm in Chicago (Evanston, actually), and you're right
the Drake is steep!  I hear it's nice, though.  If you would like some
suggestions of places to stay, I'd be happy to oblige.  Why don't you send me
something on the computer to let me know what you're looking for (location,
price, close to public transportation, etc.)

--Holly
xlmohjh@luccpua  (you know something, I'm not quite sure of that address -- I've
never had to send mail to myself.  You can try it, but if you don't get a
response, you can reach me through the psychgrad network.)
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