HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The Boxer and the Rat
Keywords: RATS, Chickens, MAs and the back of my Watch
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:27:03 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.



Interesting how a thread can get started and mean so much to different people. We don't need to point out that it is a human characteristic to slay animals and lower forms of life. We don't need to point out that kindness is also a human characteristic. We don't need to point out that thinking about "What to do", "What you do", "What I do", "What you should have done" is after the initial reaction.
The Rat may have some bad characteristics to it, but it's only instinct is survival. Instinct, right action, and swiftness together is a characteristic of a Martial Artist.
Rats are near sighted and will probably carry out their intentions (go about their business) if not bothered. (((Why did the Chicken cross the road?...))) I would think that if you are a foot tall or sixteen feet tall, and cross a rats path, it would "take notice". If you are six feet tall and a rat crosses your path, you'll "take notice". And it doesn't matter if you are one or sixteen feet tall and you corner a Rat, and if his life's theatened, it will fight back! (instinct for survival)

Question: What did the Coyote, Kuan Yin, a Rattle Snake, and a Bear all say when they crossed paths in Texas?

Answer: Howdy!

/New Dave
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:29:09 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

>   Why is your instinctive reaction to kill one of God's creatures?
This is one of the things I was trying to show with my post.
Instinctive reaction.  My post conveyed something that happened
unexpectedly and the time duration was probably about two seconds.

Lauren, you can sit at your keyboard and judge me, my God, rats and
cockroaches, but you would be wise to realize that in your nice warm
office it is so easy expound on the virtues of rats, but when you run into
a *SURPRISE* city rat, you won't think; your gonna react: fear and flight,
attack, or freeze in your boots pretending you are calm.  You are going
to feel a visceral reaction.  This is a good thing.  This is a thing
a martial artist can and should use.  You can practice kata from now
till the day of Lord, but you should treasure the unexpected. :-)

>Triumphant? That you, 
>  who outweighed this creature by something like a mere factor 
>  of at least 80:1, were able to kill, cripple, or injure 
>  something that wasn't attacking?  

Well none can say the rat wasn't attacking.  And this leads to my
second point, the rat was in no danger from me.  Check it out, this
critter, tuned to survival, can quite effectively take a chomp out
of a person.  Even if I was as sadistic and cruel as you would have
people believe, I couldn't have caught that rat.

The third point that came to me, follows from the first two, in terms
of out an out survival the rat is clearly better equipped than man, he
trains all day (or should I say night) every day.  Now the other
interesting observation, was that all the other people standing around,
missed the whole thing.  After the rat was back in the stormdrain.
(not such an evil ending after all huh folks :-)  The other people started
saying, what was that?  What happended?  What did I see?  Was that a
rat.... Ooooooh.   They don't train at all and it shows.

>   don't waste your time flaming me for this one.
Not to worry Lauren, I'll just turn the other cheek :-)
===================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:51:41 GMT

I do Yoshinkan Karate. I can't speak of other schools
[I don't know of any, never heard of the style, the instructer
came here from a two year stint in Japan,he had a BB in king Fu 
before hand, anyway I can only speak form what i hear...]
but Sensi says.. that sparring and compition
and the like isn't done much, that he never even did sparing
the closest he came is practicing a tecknique with another BB
at full force [like block counter block] Where if you miss
a block..... The idea is that even at his level the first
priotity is to perfect the technique before sparing and
such...

This is in responce to a question of turnimnets 
and if any others arts besided Aikido don't have them.

BTW anyone out there ever hear of Yoshinkan, or do it...

May your good jib draw
VOLCANO
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Hips in aikido
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:50:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3476
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <2A91641C.16296@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>this, it depends.  If the opponent's hips are below mine, I would not
>feel safe (that's the fulcrum, right there).  If the hips aren't, I'd
>step back, pulling the oppponent down and out with me.

	If you moved back I'd slide a leg behind one or both of yours
and roll you over it.
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:27:03 GMT

In <1992Aug12.165846.20429@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:

>In article <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>>
>>I fought a fairly intense battle this past Sat., it went on a long time,
>>much longer than the two minute battles I prepare for.  As I write this
>>Mon. evening I am STILL TIRED; spent.  But I am not bruised.  How can
>>this be that I fought for over an hour and my arms and legs show
>>no bruises?
>>
>>It wasn't all that late, maybe 9:00 P.M., the night was cool, Bob
>>my friend and I were walking the streets of Fredericksburg.  We do
>>volunteer work for a music club called Street Cry, it is a place for
>>kids, loud unbearable music, no smoking or alchohol.  We work as
>>greeters, say hi, break up arguments, look in the dark places for kids
>>trying to make more kids, sweep, mop, attempt to help fix broken hearts,
>>you get the drift.  Bob kept saying he was looking for a person with an
>>appointment with destiny (I hate it when he does that :-).  We walked
>>and walked, picked up trash, looked in all the dark places.  Finally
>>I was able to convince him to sit down and wait.  It wasn't two minutes
>>later that we say them, two big guys coming up the hill towards the
>>club.  The one guy was really big, had on a save-the-rainforest grateful
>>dead t-shirt.  I don't remember what Bob said, but the battle was
>>joined.

>Are you telling us that you and your pal Bob deliberately provoked a
>fight with two guys because you disliked the way they conduct their
>personal lives? I fail to see how that is in accord with the dictates
>of either your religion or your martial art:

>	"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

>	"Karate ni sente nashi"

>(Ok, ok, I know you do TKD...but Gen. Choi's nidan in Shotokan ought to count
>for something...)

>Pick one. They're both telling you the same thing.

>If that's *not* what happened why don't you elaborate on the *facts* of
>the incident instead of drowning us in bellicose metaphor.

I'm still interested in hearing Stephen elaborate on this incident.
Either way, from an MA standpoint or a Christian one, the fight above
is *neither*.

--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore       "For a beginner, there are about 100 stages of the
                          technique.  A talented beginner can expect a 90%
UCI Aikido Club           chance of success for each stage, and therefore a
Crawford Hall             (.9)^100 ~= 0 chance of success in performing the
University of California  technique properly."    -- Chris L. Kuszmaul
Irvine, CA 92717
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar)
Subject: Re: Hips in aikido
Keywords: wristlocks
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:04:04 GMT

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

>In mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar) writes:
>>If I am strong and centered, why did I let the attacker get this close?  

>	You executed a striking technique and I moved off the line
>of attack *inwards*.

Okay.  I personally would prefer to keep moving when the opponent moves in
( hopefully off to the side :-).  If I can't, then I've really messed up.
I don't like the idea of just standing still in this situation though.  The
opponent is really too close for me to try a waiting game (my close
grappling skills are not that good).

>>If I am the attacker, why move in this close if the opponent is still 
>>strong and centered?  If our chests are touching, it would be hard to 
>>generate any power short of just body checking wouldn't it?  

>	I want to move in that close because it prevents almost all possible
>striking attacks unless my opponent re-opens some distance, and because
>it is the optimal range to execute leverage throws.  You generate your power
>the same way as always :-) by putting your hips into it.

I guess I'm just having difficulty visualizing the position of the arms.
Unless I grab some gi or somehow tie up the opponents hands, I'm not clear
on how I transfer power from my hips to him.  If I grab or do some other
technique, is this done _as_ I enter?  If so, it can be used against me.  If
I wait until I'm _in_ is this too late? (NOT impossible either way though.
Just difficult for me. :-)

>Most judo techniques work best from this range.
>You can unbalance _after_ entry by attacking the weak points
>of an otherwise balanced opponent if you move yourself to the right position.

I imagine this is where I start working the legs?  I saw a Judo demo a few
weeks ago, and one of the instructors was working with a brown belt. 
The instructor rarely used his hands except to guide the student down.  Many of
the throws involved sweeping one or both legs when the student would try to
do some technique.  (Very nice!  Almost no effort at all. :-)

Neil
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Shotokan Misconceptions - revisited
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:02:39 +0000



>As for the depth of the stance, well I'm just commenting on what i've
>seen recently at the Traditional Karate Open Rated Circuit, where most
>of the Shotokan kata competitors take a much deeper stance than usual,
>but then at Open tournaments most of the katas unfamiliar to the judges
>are taken at face value. Sure, the basic principles of movement and
>technique can be looked for, but the intricate details of the kata will
>not be seen.


I think that the judges really must take the blame here.
They appear to award higher marks for more athletic
performances. Therefore the karataka all try to be more
athletic rather than "doing it right" - terrible shame
really.


On the subject of the Trad Open Circuit, I understand they
are using some from of "pressure reading makiwara" to
determine who has the hardest punch. Does anyone know how
it works and exactly what it measures. I am rather concerned
that it just measures pressure rather than the focus of
the blow. This may mean that the person deemed to have the
hardest punch would not necessarily have the most effective
punch. Anybody care to enlighten me?


Bill Burgar.
From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which form for children?
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:38:29 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Distribution: world
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

Well, I don't know which form would be the best, but I know my child will be
studying Aikido because:

1) I study Aikido
2) I feel that it will give my child a tool to deal with life without it being
   to agressive. As a parent, I have been concerned with what would happen if
   my child were provoked to violence. I did not want my child to have a her
   disposal a weapon that could potentially be very harmful to another child.
   I am assuming that it will be hard for a child to make the " correct "
   decisions on what sort of force to apply in the beginning. As she gets older
   I think she will have a better perspective and she will be a better judge
   of how much force to apply.
3) I also picked Aikido because of the rolling aspects. I hope to give her the
   advantage I did not have when I was younger and perhaps she will avoid some
   of the debilitating injuries I acquired in my youth. I expect that it will
   also improve her coordination.
4) I wanted a martial art that would tame her agressive nature. Since the basis
   of Aikido is respect for your fellow humans, this would, I hope, make her a
   gentler person.
5) I want her to have weigh of building her confidence in handling the problems
   and unexpected things that occur in life.
6) I want to give her a way to defend herself, should the ocassion arise that
   it should be necessary to do so. I know many people doubt the effectiveness
   of Aikido as a self defense. I, however, do not. I think it is a great way
   to defend oneself in a way that can minimize the legal ramifications of
   some types of self defense.

That, more or less, is it. Your mileage may vary:-)

neil

-- 
Only 2698 shopping days left till the next millenium! 
Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 20:02:20 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Summary: 	-=-=-< pointed humor >-=-=-
Followup-To: 	send it to someone who never heard of you, confuse them.
Keywords: 	-=-=-< famous quote >-=-=-


	on man and religion.....

	man is the only animal that has the one *true* religion....
	in fact, several of them....

			samuel clemmons


	and, as always, i am/at:

	     doug:  <doug@eng.umd.edu> : <doug@lpf.umd.edu>

	-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

	"presidential elections are planned distractions
	 to divert attention from the actions behind the scenes....
	 like a game of chess when the house is a mess, or
	 a petty money squabble when your marriage is in trouble,
	 or a football game when there's rioting in the street!

	 it's just another movie.....  another song and dance.....
	 another poor sucker who never had a chance!
	 it's just another captain goin' down with his ship.....
	 it's just another jerk, taking pride in his work!

				       greetings from timbuck three!

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: University of Utah
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:21:15

In article <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:

[excerpts]

   If you have kept your goal and purpose clearly in mind, you are not
   just strengthening your body, but you are preparing your spirit.

     "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the
     rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this
     darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the
     heavenly places" [2]

   SUMMATION (finally):
   It should not be hard to realize that "traditional" values are fading
   fast.  Family values are being tossed around by both political parties
   and in such a way that it is a mockery.  I just found out by accident that
   there is/was a hot thread in misc.kids about how to let your kids grow
   up accepting witches, ARRRRGG.  The word I use for what is going on in
   usenet and the world is apostasy, and this is a *BAD* thing. 

i appreciate the time and effort you have taken to express your view
of martial arts, and how it fits in with your world-view.  we would
all do well to be so introspective about our direction in life.

but before you cleave too tightly to "traditional values," remember
that horrible things like slavery and witch-hunting were also
traditional values at one time, enforced by people who felt confident
that god himself was stirring their souls.  this is the irony of life;
our degree of certainty is not necessarily related to our rectitude.

no person or group of people can seriously claim to be above the
foibles of humanity; history contains far too many counter-examples.
this should serve as a caution to all of us.  we should direct all our
visions of perfection inward, so that we do not screw up anyone else's
life if we turn out to be mistaken.  this is the value of humility.

by all means, stride confidently forward with your convictions, just
as you would commit to an attack in the dojo.  and, just as in the
dojo, be prepared to get floored.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MA vs National Geographic
Date: 22 Aug 92 05:01:40 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: University of Queensland. Oz.

In article <13404@pogo.wv.tek.com>, roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
wrote:
> 
> In article <BtAFKI.Gs4@cs.dal.ca> marsup@cs.dal.ca (Mario Ouellet) writes:
> >
> >Howver, this IS rec.martial-arts and unless someone starts analyzing the
> >kangooroo's front kick may I suggest that this discussion be moved to
> 
> They have an extremely wimpy front kick but how the little buggers
> use their tail for foot sweeping is another matter.
> 
I wouldn't call a front kick from a six foot Big Red "wimpy", especially
when they sit back on that tail, and blast away with both nicely
clawed feet at once !
Disembowelment anyone ?
...ooops, I've just been caught analyzing the Kangaroo's front kick ?
Well, everything's relevant if you try hard enough.

(o  ) (o  )      ( o ) ( o )      (  o) (  o)  -------------------~
...AND KIDS, FEEL FREE TO       Shane's Opinion: Guaranteed to be ~
   TRY THIS AT HOME !!          worthless or you pay DOUBLE !     ~
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ~_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-~
From: natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:10:08 GMT
Subject: Re: The Boxer and the Rat
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>/ hplsla:rec.martial-arts / exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave) /  4:27 pm  Aug 19, 1992 /
>. (((Why did the Chicken cross the road?...))) 

To show the Possum how it's done!!


>/New Dave
>----------
Nate
_____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                            |
| Natalie Schuchard aka: Nate   mail stop : 270                              |
| HP - LSID                          at&t : (206) 335-2929                   |
| 8600 Soper Hill Road             hpdesk : NATALIE_SCHUCHARD/HPA100/UX      |
| Everett, WA 98205-1298             hpux : hplabs!hp-pcd!hplsla!natalies    |
|____________________________________________________________________________|

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:26:21 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

northcutt's post and the mess of responses it has generated have
saddened me.  this is one of the few newsgroups where i feel
i can safely retire, spout my opinion and know that the responses
will be well thought out and polite, and will lack hostility -
generally.

i'm not really interested in arguments about free speech,
and having a right to one's opinion, and "if you don't
like it, put him/the subject in your kill file."

i think there are many in this group who would very much
like to preserve the general openminded attitude
here, including myself.  these newsgroups have titles
for a very good reason - it has mostly to do with
convenience - a person wants to discuss subject a -
and he knows he can go to a group where such conver-
sations are already going on, without having to
wade through tens of thousands of posts.

as soon as someone tries to preach on a group - as soon as
someone waltzes in with his opinions, convinced that his Way
is the only Path, flame wars start, *especially* over
religion.

it has been said that conviction is a greater enemy of truth
than lies.  i feel this has been exemplified in northcutt's
post.  however i also am of the camp that this post, as well
as some of those that are typical of Khan, are wholly 
inappropriate.

we on this network are not all christians.  your post prac-
tacally assumes it though.  we do not all think we should
be "saved,"  or want to.  some of us were "saved," and 
discovered that for us christianity no longer satisfied
our *personal* spiritual hunger.

religion is a *personal* issue;  it is certainly not a
*martial* issue.  it sounds as if you feel close ties
to the people on this group and wanted to share your
experience with them.  i'm sorry but i'm afraid i cannot
lend you my support if you end up proselytizing.

if you feel bad for what happened and you feel a need
to discuss it with friends, why not do so?  if you
wish to discuss it in a public forum, take it to one
of the great numbers of existing, appropriate newsgroups
please.  if you wish to confine your discussion to your
use of force, fine, but leave out the preaching, ok?


shannon the mouthy pushy ranting broad who can't wait
        to get back to aikijutsu classes again!!


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: re: Shaolin Temple news.
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:13:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bt5vI2.4nM@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
>In article <9208172140.AA10170@adelphi-assb01.army.mil> @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01 writes:
>>        Here's something that some monks (those who specialize in it) can
>>do that is definitely not wushu.  There's a skill they can pull logs and 
>>lift rocks with their, <warning painful to male readers> testicles.  The
>>martial benefit of this traing is render that area invulnerable to attack.
>>(Ow, I'm still in pain).
>Just one question, HOW THE HECK do you lift ANYTHING
>with your testicles? There arent any muscles there?!

In the photographs I've seen, they tied a rope around the rock and then
tied the other end around the scrotum in a tight loop.  The testicles
themselves kept the rope from slipping off the scrotum.  In addition,
they not only *pulled* the rock, but *lifted* it off the ground.  Ugh...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Know anything about the history of Chito-Ryu?
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:28:40 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada



Anybody know anything about the history of Chito-Ryu karate?  A friend of mine
has been telling me how great it is and I was just wondering what it's origins
are. 

Cheers,
Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts