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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:16:52 CDT
Reply-To:     PHIKAP-R@SRU.BITNET
From:         Phi Kappa Theta List Owner <PHIKAP-R@SRU.BITNET>
Subject: NEW LIST: Phi Kappa Theta Fraternity Discussion List

PHIKAP-L@SRU.BITNET      (This is NOT a LISTSERV list)

   The purpose of the list is for discussion and communication for
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:52:22 CDT
Reply-To:     elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us
From:         "(Edward J. Branley)" <elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>
Subject:      MARDI-GRAS list returns...

MARDI-GRAS on MAIL-SERVER@mintir.new-orleans.la.us

   MARDI-GRAS is a mailing list for discussion of the Carnival
   celebration held annually in New Orleans, LA.

   This list is a return of the list I had started before experiencing
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   for some time.  Now that we've returned with new hardware and in a
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   To subscribe to MARDI-GRAS, send the following command to
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   Owner: Edward J. Branley <elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:07:31 CDT
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From:         Honors Newsletter Editor <HNREDIT@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      NEW LIST: HONORS Discussion Group

HONORS on LISTSERV@GWUVM.BITNET

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   The HONORS discussion forum delivers news of NCHC conferences and
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:22:01 CDT
Reply-To:     bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
From:         bob pasker <bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us>
Subject:      NEW LIST: SOCHIST - New Social History list

SOCHIST on LISTSERV@USCVM    New Social History List
        or LISTSERV@VM.USC.EDU

   Briefly, this list will address three aspects of what is called the
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:56:05 CDT
Reply-To:     Ed Vielmetti <emv@msen.com>
From:         Edward Vielmetti <emv@msen.com>
Subject:      NEW LIST: portmaster-users@msen.com

portmaster-users@msen.com   Livingston Portmaster Terminal Servers List

   I've set up a new mailing list for users of the Livingston Portmaster
   line of terminal servers and routers.  These boxes are in use by
   several network service providers (including ourselves) to support
   dialup SLIP and PPP access.  Given that the demands of public access
   dialup are somewhat more stressful than ordinary async service, I
   thought it would be a good idea to get people working with the
   equipment off on their own list to exchange working ideas and to
   coordinate development requests.

   The Portmaster series includes a 4-port 56K router (the IR-4) and a
   10 port async terminal server (the PM-11) that supports SLIP and PPP.

   To join the list send mail to
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   To submit messages to the list send to
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   Disclaimer: though we at Msen have some investment in the actual
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   Owner: portmaster-users-request@msen.com
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:05:10 CDT
Reply-To:     the_sage@ncc1701e.uucp
From:         the_sage@ncc1701e.uucp
Subject:      NEW LIST: RASI-L - rec.arts.startrek.info list

RASI-L@ncc1701e.uucp

   This list, RASI-L contains the contents of the Usenet newsgroup
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   This list is intended to be for those on networks connected to
   internet via gateways, etc.  (this includes fidonet, the .UUCP
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   mail.  Postings sent to the list RASI-L will NOT be gatewayed into
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   imperative that you not reply to this list.  If you reply to the
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   annoyed if this happens, as my address is root@ncc1701e.uucp.

   There are two addresses that are available for the
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   the other is trek-info-request@scam.berkeley.edu.  These addresses
   will appear at the bottom of each posting approved by the moderator,
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   If you have questions about the operation of the newsgroup, send mail
   to the -request address (currently trek-info-request@
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   You may leave the list RASI-L at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF rasi-l"
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   moderator's addresses (trek-info@scam.berkeley.edu nor
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   Please note that it is presently possible for anybody to determine
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   More information on this mailserver can be found by sending a "HELP"
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   Owner:  the_sage@ncc1701e.uucp
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.new-list
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:28:36 CDT
Reply-To:     elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us
From:         "(Edward J. Branley)" <elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>
Subject:      LIST CHANGE: DERYNI mailing list returns...

DERYNI-L on MAIL-SERVER@mintir.new-orleans.la.us

   DERYNI-L is a mailing list for fans of Katherine Kurtz' novels set in
   the Deryni universe, along with her other works.

   This list is a return of the list I had started before experiencing
   major hardware problems with the system forcing me to close the site
   for some time.  Now that we've returned with new hardware and in a
   new domain, along with an automated mail-server, it's time to
   re-start the list.

   To subscribe to DERYNI-L, send the following command to
   MAIL-SERVER@mintir.new-orleans.la.us:

        SUBSCRIBE DERYNI-L

   Owner:  Edward J. Branley <elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us>
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Original_To:  BITNET%"new-list@ndsuvm1.bitnet"
Approved-By:  Marty Hoag <NU021172@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.new-list
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:09:38 CDT
Reply-To:     CAPTANSKI33@SNYCORVA
From:         CAPTANSKI33@SNYCORVA.BITNET
Subject:      NEW LIST: Golf-L The Golf Discussion List

Golf-L on LISTSERV@ubvm.bitnet
       or LISTSERV@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

   The Golf-L discussion list was formed to give golfers and those
   interested in golf a place to discuss all forms of golf and all
   topics related to golf.  Some topics may be current tournaments, etc.

   To subscribe to Golf-L, send the following command to LISTSERV@UBVM
   via mail text or interactive messaging: SUBSCRIBE GOLF-L your name.
   For example: SUBSCRIBE GOLF-L John Doe

   Owner: Chris Tanski captanski33@snycorva.bitnet
                       cttx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:20:39 EST
From:         Gretchen Schirmer <IQZK100@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

Chelagoi, Zahir, et al --

Your conversation reminded me of the frustration I felt leading up to the
Gulf War.  It will take a whole new way of thinking...

I remember being overwhelmed with the discussions and debates trying to
predict how many casualties we might suffer if we did this or that, how many
troops we needed, projected losses of equipment, etc, AND almost no discussion
of the prospects for peace.  If we could have devoted half of the energy we
spent preparing for war to a discussion of the possibilities for peace, perhaps
we could have avoided the deaths and devastation that followed.

I'm not saying that peace is easy, but I think that if more people entered the
dialogue to find creative alternatives to war and peacetime production alter-
natives in order to replace the military idustrial complex, we would certainly
be taking a step in a positive direction.

Gretchen Schirmer
IUPUI
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X-Prolog:     University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida 33620
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:53:25 GMT
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      salutations...

Hi Joseph: Welcome aboard. I hope that you find the topics discussed on this
list most interesting. I do.

I am originally from the Virgin Islands but reside in Tampa, Florida. I am not
familiar w/ IUPUI. What is that acronym short for and where are you located?
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:57:48 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

Chelgoi,

you write "what kind of leadership have we given stage to.." or something
like that...

In the U.S., its not we (as in people) but they (as in corporations) that
give us our leaders.... Remember, HE with the most money wins.....
unfortunately pacifists cannot throw and attend $10,000 per plate dinners
and play golf with the president and vice president....only CEO's and
monied people to do.....and some of them happen to be in the arms industry...

zahir
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:37:57 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject: RE:

Sam,

You say the "Palestinians should get what they can now"....Usually,
when a negotiating team or gov't gets too little, they will be thrown out
and internal warfare is followed by a resumption of warfare with the
Israelis....  Your response is kind of like the way labor and management
statements we hear these days...labor should settle for what they can get
or the unions will go bust....

zahir
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:51:22 -0400
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

David,

You say that if you "....were in President Bush's shoes, re-elction would
be my primary goal"....

I am glad that you are so honest, I wish President Bush was....  Some of
us really believe that its the interest of the country and of the world
and bringing peace to this earth that were his primary goals....  You
think its time we go back to producing poison gas and selling some
nuclear weapons...Japan and Germany cannot touch us, let alone compete
with those wonderful products we produce....

zahir
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X-Prolog:     University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida 33620
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:44:23 GMT
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Note

Hi Everyone:

If I may, I would now like to take the opportunity of asking if there are any
people out there who are in the fields of MIS, Computer Science or any related
field, who are members of the national organization called Data Processing
Management Association. If you are, please write me at my e-mail address or
via the list? I am interested in joining this organization and would like some
information.  Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
From: dlowe@gslis.ucla.edu (David Lowe)
Subject: Re: F16s to Taiwan
Organization: UCLA Graduate School of Library
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:45:19 PDT

In article <199209041730.AA08663@gateway.rosedale.org> ptahbildar@ROSEDALE.
ORG writes:

>I'm not an expert on political analysis, but I can't help be skeptical at
>the true motive in the sale of the F16s to Taiwan, considering Taiwan's
>realationship with China and Dear George's "vision" on arms proliferation
>and his pushing China to halt transfer of arms to other third world countries.
>
>Probal

I think it's quite obvious the the jet fighter sale is primarily a political 
move in an election year.  With thus sale, President Bush can only score 
more political points and have nothing to lose.  In this bad economic time, 
do you say no to someone who wants to spend millions of dollars on your 
products.  Besides, how can it hurt when selling arms to Taiwan?  Is Taiwan 
going to use those jet fighters to conquer America?  No.  Mainland China may 
be angry at this sale and may threaten to do something about it.  What are 
they going to do, nuke Washington D.C.?  If I was in President Bush's 
shoes, my re-election is my primary goal now and who cares about that those 
communist Chinese will say.

Just my 2 cents.

David
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:04:26 -0700
From:         "AUGUSTINE F. DURAN" <BELLM3084@BESTSD.SDSU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Medical

Phil,
My compliments.  This is a great article and those of us who have taken to
waiting for your scathing replies to other's opinions will be greatly soothed
to know that you actually liked someone elses opinion!.
Please don't burn my buns with your reply, but take it as a bit of humor.
Gus Duran.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:23:40 -0400
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Death Penalty

Hello Janet.....

It was nice hearing from you.......as USA is considered I think any kind of
Penalty would not make sense because..the tendency of the government is to
add fuel to an issue until it gets ignited then hand over an fire extinguisher
to the audience.....

Dilshad Ahmed.....
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:55:00 CST
From:         CHELAGOI <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

Zahir,
Don't be sorry about painting a depressing picture.  You did not paint it.
It is reality.  Idealism should not fog reality.  Change can only be worked
at if one understands reality.

I wish I could agree with you that if the American people could make the
decision aid would have been sent to Somalia long ago.  I hear too much
of "we must take care of our own problems.  Why help others."  I even
hear that from students in my classess.  They, and the American public
in general, have very little appreciation for how the rest of the world
lives.  They are generous and caring people, but you have to get them
to understand what they see on the nightly news is real, not just another
Hollywood production.  THAT IS A DIFFICULT TASK.

--- Chelagoi
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:49:00 CST
From:         CHELAGOI <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

David,
I realize you were stating a very common position and even a very
American mindset, but surely we have to get beyond the drivenness
that says, "I will do whatever it takes to accomplish my goals."
A president who will do almost anything to get elected freightens me
to death.  We as a human race cannot tolerate such leadership, especially
when decisions can effect the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.

I posted a Clinton Statement to Africa-l concerning the situation in
Somalia.  It was two paragraphs of rhetoric.  Neither candidate sees
that horrible situation as worth the breath to address.

What kind of leadership have we given center stage?

----- Chelagoi
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:54:00 CST
From:         CHELAGOI <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: F16s to Taiwan

Zahir,
Why do you have to be so hurtingly (is that a word?) honest.  I am
afraid that you are correct that corporations elect presidents in
America.  Corporations can, in reality, be defined as influencial
groups of people.  I do think that our networking is a type
or corporation or cooperation.  It does seem to be causing some
change in policy (see the discussions on Africa-l concerning
aid to Somalia).
I guess I am not ready to give up, Zahir.  I do not think you are
either.  We must play by some of the rules and redefine others.

I am enough of a realist to understand that arms and aid are two
different, vastly different realms.  Maybe we can get aid moving, but
stoping arms shipments, that is a vast array of corporation who
survive only on war.  TO CHANGE THAT, I am not sure how, BUT IT
MUST..... or should.... am I growing weak?

---- Chelagoi
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:41:58 -0600
From:         "Janet C. Constantinides" <CONSTANT@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Death Penalty

Dilshad,

What a wonderful analogy!

Janet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:56:58 G+3
From:         CCA3203@SAKAAU03.BITNET

 FROM     Hashim Al-attas
 SUBJECT  Reply to (Newcomer)
 DATE     08/09/92



  Joseph
  Welcome to this discussion list and hope to see you participating in
  list discourses soon, Until then wish you the best....


  Hashim
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:24:54 GMT
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From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Note

Dilshad and others:

I send a note to the list yesterday about the DPMA.  I am trying to
get some information from some of my former professors concerning it. When I
get that info., I will pass it on to the list.
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