HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs125c51@dcl-nxt31.cso.uiuc.edu (cs125 student)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: distance a .22 lr travels
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:43 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Original poster, Bryan, here...

Thanks for all the responses. I probably should have been a bit clearer in the  
original post. I NEVER shoot towards anyplace that is not safe (i.e. use a good  
backstop). I live in a flat land area with clear visuals, and I know where all  
the buildings, vehicles, tractors, etc., are, so I avoid them like the plague.  
Sometimes I think I'm overly cautious, which is fine by me. That way, even  
surprises end up harmless.

My main gist was how far .22's really travel, and how dangerous they are at  
this range, mostly out of curiosity. But thanks for your concern, anyway. Great  
to see so many conciencious (spell?), responsible gun owners out there. Say, I  
thought all gun owners were wacked-out, irresponsible Rambo-types! :-)  Did  
anyone keep a copy of all these responses? Perhaps we should send them to the  
ACLU, or some other "Americans United to Ban Guns" group.

Happy (safe) shooting!

Only 9 days till firearm deer season in Illinois!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm IPSC loads...
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:45 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Nov4.230643.15326@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#Well, I recently acquired a SIG P226 (happy! happy! joy! joy!), and was going
#to use it for IPSC shooting.  I know I can't make major (at this time) with a
#standard 9x19, but that doesn't much concern me.  What I'm looking for is a 
#proven load that will give me something to the effect of a 150 power factor.
#I know I could drop the velocity a great deal and shoot 125-130, but I want to
#be sure poppers go down with some regularity.
#
#So anyway, I imagine a 147gr bullet would be much preferable to a 115 or 124,
#since the latter bullets would require about 1300 fps to make 150 pf.  The
#147, on the other hand, can get by with around 1000 or so.
#
#So, if anyone is shooting 9mm minor IPSC, please post/mail your loads.
#


u can try a load that I use in a Glock and sometimes in my Boland 9Major.

147 CP
7.0gr of WW-571
Federal primer
good brass - (no crap stuff like RP or WIN)

This makes 150 in my Glock and will do a popper with little trouble.
This load is beyond max (but not by much) and may not do for your
SIG what it does for my Glock.

Those of us that do 9Major right know that the lighter bullets are NOT
the way to go.  If there is enough interest I will post the specifics.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com

"Stand back folks - this one's a nine major!" - RO
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Llama .45 Magazines
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:17:13 GMT

A friend of mine has one of those Llama .45 pistols, and he's
looking for magazines.  I told him that the Llama could use magazines
made for the 1911 series, but he's unsure.

Do standard generic 1911 magazines function reliably in the Llama .45,
or would he be better off buying genuine Llama mags?

The reason I ask is price:  generic 1911 mags are $6.95 vs $19.95 for
the Llama brand.

Rob
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: concealable self defense gun for men
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:27:32 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Nov7.173233.19854@ke4zv.uucp>, by ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman):
# In article <9211050812.AA04527@rutgers.edu> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
# #
# #In addition, the type of gun you carry should dictate the choice
# #of clothes not the choice of clothes dictating the type of gun you 
# #carry. Carry what it will take to protect your life and design the
# #wardrobe around it.
# 
# Seriously, loud Hawaiian  shirts worn outside the pants offer the
# best concealment option. The loud pattern helps breakup any outline
# the weapon may "print" on the fabric. If you don't have the panache
# to pull off such a fashion statement, conservative plaids work better
# than monochromatic garments.
# 
# A final option is the fanny pack/belly pack that has gained acceptance
# with men in the last few years. Frankly I can't bring myself to wear
# one of these in public, so I opt for a light windbreaker and a shoulder
# holster on summer evenings, and a heavy leather jacket in winter.
#

How about a "Western Shirt" (the kind with the snaps instead of
buttons) and your choice of holster.  If you need to draw it, you
will attract attention ;-{). 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: My Beretta and Me
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:47 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Well, if you shot well enough in competition with your Beretta, but feel
the need for a slimmer grip, then why not go with a down-sized Beretta?

There is currently an eight shooter in 9mm Para on the market so you don't
have to learn a whole new manual of arms.  Also, the 13-shooter does feel
smaller, but probably not as well as an 8-shot SIG.  The Beretta 92 FCM
might be a choice if you don't wanna give up Beretta whole hog (it's tough,
I should know).

But then again, a .45 or 9mm P220 is a great gun (although I really really
like the P225).

Go with your own choice though, but at least give the 8 shooter a try.

Doug.
From: rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: GP100 v 686
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:44 GMT
Organization: AT&T


The following is posted for a friend. All replies can be sent
directly to me, or posted, and I will forward them. Thanks.

Begin forwarded:
----------------------------------------------
Have two questions on the Ruger GP-100 and Taurus 92 9mm auto.
Additional info and suggestions very welcome.
------------------Question 1-------------------

Which trigger pull is better? S&W686 or Ruger GP-100

I will be getting a 357 in the very soon. It will probably
be a Ruger GP-100, Stainless, with 6" full lug barrel. I like its looks
and the rubber/wood combo grips feel better then the larger
wood grips of the 686 S&W. (Cost $317)

I have studied all the info on ammo and reloading and all that.
But now interested in the trigger pull of the GP-100. The
latest magazines rate the pull of the S&W very steady in DA.
They mention the two stage action of some other brands, but
didn't mention what type the GP is! (darn).

Does anyone know about the trigger pull charactistics of the
GP-100? Is it smooth like the S&W or staged?
Is staged worse then linear?

--------Question 2-------------------------

I will also be getting a 9mm auto. Been comparing and will probably
go with the Tauras 92, SS with adjustable sights.
(I really like the feel of the Taurus or Beretta compared to the
  the other autos, so I think thats most important for me.)

Does the Tauras safety have 3-stages (locked, ready, and decocker).
Does this model also work in DA on the first shot?
And should I get the Beretta instead (money no problem)

Tom
-----------------------------------------
End forwarded

Bob
From: calderac@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (CALDERAC)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:22 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University

In article <62013@mimsy.umd.edu>, magnum@cs.umd.edu writes...
# 
# 
#			How am I doing?
#

I think you are doing very well. Your comments are witty and always
appropriate. Thanks for taking the time required to keep this group
a pleasure to read.

                   Alan Calder
From: kkrh@troi.cc.rochester.edu (K. Karcich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:26:54 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

To the moderator, rec.guns

I think you are doing a great job and that this newsgroup is one of the best
around. Don't change anything. 

I suspect Mr. Klausner is very much in the minority regarding his opinions

regds and thanks

Ken Karcich
From: dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:26 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
#
#This is the idle curiosity of a fringe gun fan but
#committed home-defender:
#
#Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
#for defence?
#
#I would like a defence-oriented 12-guage shotgun
#that I can just pick up and have it go boom-boom-boom
#while I keep pulling the trigger. The action and feeding
#mechanism could be like a Glock, or it could even be a
#cylinder like a double action revolver. Am I alone in
#my sence of the slow, dangerous inconvenience of having
#to jack the slide between aimed shots?
#
#--
#Joseph Weinstein  Sybase - 1650 65th Street, Emeryville Ca 94608
#                 joe@sybase.com   sun!sybase!joe   510-596-3620
#Disclaimer:      Opinion, I disclaim thee, I disclaim thee, I
#                  disclaim thee!

I've got a Benelli semi auto that I bought about seven years ago.
I have not had it jam on me once over the years and it was easily
cleared.  The only thing weird about the gun is the first round has
to be put in the chamber by hand.

It is a heck of a lot of fun to use when I am playing with my clay
pigeon launcher.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Dick Winningstad                                                    +
+                    Italian Wines are Fine                          +
+          I'd rather be on a Moto Guzzi in eastern Oregon.          +
+          Fourth gear curves at 7000 RPM are the greatest!          +
+dickwin@sequent.com                                                 +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Ted Belliston)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CZ-75/85 in 10mm
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: unislc.1992Nov6.154236.12541
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City

In article <9211042010.AA21465@NMSU.Edu> loki@acca.nmsu.edu writes:
#
#I hear from an unreliable friend of mine (hi, chris) that someone (FIE?)
#has come out with or will be coming out with a CZ copy in 10mm.  Does anyone
#out there in television land know anything about it?
#
#--Dan
#
#"Master... Master...                       (To The Tune of Metallica's)
#	Master of Science is your degree.  ('Master of Puppets')
#	You're too dumb for a PhD.              loki@acca.nmsu.edu
#	Should have studied for the GRE!    taylordf@ucsu.colorado.edu
#

I have heard rumor too.  I beleive the company is E.A.A. They should be out 
somtime early next year.

Ted B.
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: INFO WANTED: Automag III cal. 30M1
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:53:18 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <1992Nov11.003321.11848@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu
(Russ Kepler) writes:
#So, in response to the original post: .30 Carbine has more energy in
#a handgun lenght barrel, .357 has more in a rifle lenght barrel, and 
#you get to pick the side in a Contender length barrel.

Right now, I'm trying to decide between getting the M-1 Carbine, the
Mini-14, the SKS or the Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm.  I'm interested
in power, which one I can get a good-sized magazine for, to a certain
extent accuracy (it's strictly for plinking).  The obvious choice would
probably be the Mini-14 or the SKS, but I have some objections to getting
Ruger or PROC-made products...

Of course, then I have to decide which .45 to get!

Later,

    don
From: 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 45 ACP, 9mm
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.

can anyone tell me what is the best kind of ammo to buy for home use in

45 ACP, 9mm what is the best grain to buy? is hollow point effective.

Does any body own a Glock 21, Smith and Wesson 1066
I want to know how you like the guns do they jam every now and then

Can you mess you your gun if you reload wrong

Can someone tell me what has more stopping power a 45 or 10

Which one is more likely to do more damage to the body

Do most people prefer 10mm or 45
From: steve@law7.daytonoh.ncr.com (Steve Bridges)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand purchase options
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:30 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation -- Law Department

hudson@ualr.edu writes:


#BTW, all of the M1s are WWII or Korean era, although a (very) few were made 
#prior to WWII and a few more after Korea ('till 1957 and the M14).  This 
#includes the "imports", as the Korea returns are normally termed, but not
#Berettas.

Some of the pre-WW-IIs are still around.  The gun store where I bought mine
had 2 of them (very collectable, but I didn't have the money) -- one had a
2 digit serial number, and another one had a 3 digit serial number.

#Manufacture of US M1s:

#International Harverster - a few hundred thousand (Korea era).

That's mine.  Does anybody have any idea which International Harvester
plant made the M1s?  There is an IH plant (well, now it's a Navistar plant)
near Dayton in Springfield Ohio.  Could mine have been made there?

Steve
-- 
Steve Bridges, Programmer/Analyst| NCR - Law Department, WHQ-5
steve@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM   ___| Phone:(513)-445-4486 622-4486 (VOICEplus)
Sci.military moderator        | "The airplane does not recognize attitude,
providing a maneuver is conducted at one G" -- A.M. "Tex" Johnston
From: merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: explosives question
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:25 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA

In article <199211111646.AA15274@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> cdl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT) writes:
#1) What kind of surface blast (assuming a direct hit with eg. a missile) would
#be required to destroy an underground bunker? I mean an actual military
#bunker, not a shelter. I need to know the minimum to put it out of commision,
#not necessarily kill everyone inside.

If it's a really good bunker -- like the kind Saddam had built by the Germans
for his command, control, communications, and (I presume) intelligence people
dug deeply into the earth with thick reinforced concrete walls and extremely
heavy blast doors -- and the sucker was on alert and fully buttoned up -- you
would want a directed effects nuclear shaped charge -- essentially a shaped
hollow cone of U-238 with the base pointed toward the target and a reasonable
yield atomic or thermonuclear device (perhaps a few tens of KT yield) at the
apex of the cone.  It works essentially like a chemical driven shaped charges
but with energy derived from fast fissions in U-238 capturing fast neutrons.

On the other hand, with a crude strategic thermonuclear weapon surface blast
figure you can vaporize about a ton of earth for every ton of nuclear yield
-- estimate the volume of earth occupied by the bunker and you'll know what
it would take to obliterate it.  Of course, you get pretty effective damage
by just covering most bunkers over with a few feet of silica glass.  Let'em
try digging their way out through a thick layer of solid radioactive rock!

Merlin                        Never let it be forgot
The Magician                  That there once was a spot
King Arthur's Court           For one brief shining moment
Camelot                       That was known as Camelot

[MODERATOR:  I should have redirected this in the first place over to
either rec.pyrotechnics or sci.military.   I encourage the readership
to redirect followup there, thanks.]
From: mvjh3@mvuas.att.com (James M Hajjar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Info. on Dan Wesson Model 44
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T



I just inherited a Dan Wesson Model 44 revolver.  The firearm is in
excellent condition, is silver in color (not nickle, but I don't
think it's stainless).  My question is what is this gun worth?  It's
about 7 or 8 years old.  I like it, but the .44 mag is to big for
self defense, and I can't hunt with it in Ma.  I'm thinking of trading
it for a 9 mm and want to know it's value ahead of time.

Thanks,

Jim Hajjar
From: mws20@ccc.amdahl.com (Mark Sechrest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Baby Desert Eagle
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:53 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <1drq2oINN8q3@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Dave.Maycon@EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon) writes:
#Does anybody out there have the new scaled down ver. of the Dersert Eagle. 
#I've seen this 40mm @ my local gun shop.:

Well, I asked this same question a couple of months ago, and here is
what I found out. This gun is not a "new scaled down version of the
Desert Eagle". Actually, Magnum Research bought the design from IMI, who
called the gun the Jericho. Reviews of the gun have been pretty positive.
The Jericho was sold in a kit form that included both 9mm and .41AE
barrells, but the Baby Eagle is not available in this form. I have seen
it in both 9mm and .40. For some reason, Magnum Research hasn't started
shipping it in stainless yet, only blue(that could have changed since the
last time I saw it). From talking to a local gunsmith, I found out that it
is basically the same gun as a Springfield Armory P9. He took the slide
off of the Eagle and put it on the frame of a P9, and it worked perfectly.
The P9 is going to be almost universally less expensive than the Eagle,
so unless you really want the name, I would think about buying the P9
instead. Hope this helps!

Mark
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock (& lock)
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:27 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Nov10.062755.13526@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
##Actually, the recoil supprised me: It felt greater than that
##of my .357. I suspect this is a factor of the gun's light weight...
#
#???   I've shot the Glock .45, 10mm, & compact .40s and 9mms.  I
#was shocked at how mild the recoil was.   Ditto for my girlfriend.

Actually, I had the same response.  I find recoil in the Glock quite
low, and I've always attributed it to the low moment arm in recoil
(the barrel is lower and closer to your grip than in any other handgun
I have) and the possible flexing in the frame during firing making the
transfer of energy from slide to frame more of an inelastic collision
than in a metal frame handgun.  An additional reason could be that the
slide contains a significant amount of mass, more so in proportion to
the frame than in a 1911 or other obsolete technology design (the
latter thrown in as flame bait - I like my Springfield 1911 just fine).

#[MODERATOR:  No, folks, we *won't* try to reparse that sentence
#sentence structure ... ]

Speaking of parsing, Are we having having redundancy redundancy
problems?
	[MODERATOR:  Yeah.]
	[MODERATOR:  Ditto.]

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62 x 39 rounds
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:05 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <9211111714.AA12673@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#I decided to check my reference on the brown lacquered-case ammo.  It's
#"The Complete Book of Assault Weapons" by Harris Publications, published
#in 1988.  They refer to said ammo as Chinese Type PS ammo.  It came
#packaged in a green and white box, with a diamond-shaped 'eye' on the
#left of the box with horizontal lines to the right of it.
#
#The bullet was a 122.5 grain boattail bullet with a steel core surrounded
#by a thin lead jacket and covered with a steel jacket.  Velocity was
#2450 fps from an SKS.  They said it was definitely armor-piercing.
#
#This information's useless now, since someone said it now has a lead core,
#but I thought I'd post it anyway...

In general, the brown lacquered ammo, which came in silver boxes with
the Norinco label <factory #71 produced I believe> is lead core. 

The box will be marked:

CHINA NORTH INDUSTRIES CORPORATION

7.62x39mm Cartridge
LEAD CORE BULLET
STEEL CASE
NON CORROSIVE

The green boxed steel core is marked:

CHINA NORTH INDUSTRIES CORPORATION
7.62X39 mm
NON CORROSIVE
STEEL CASE

It's usually made in factory #61

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry (was Re: I picked PPK/S over Mustang and 380 backup....)
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:59 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <199211061827.AA19419@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

#In article <BxAsup.39G@cs.psu.edu> drj@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (Dan Jeuch) writes:
##In article <17Vc02Ns2a8k01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:
###
###4) I would prefer a 9mm parabellum, but it must be .380ACP minimum.
##
##As for point #4, I believe one of the smallest 9mm guns available is the
##Firestar.  Personally, I've never fired it, and I think it's a bit heavy.

#How about a S&W 3913? After doing some survey on what are available
#in the market, I think it is a good choice for small to medium size
#people. What do you guys think?

I have been thinking about this as well, small, handy, politically
correct single column magazine. No sharp edges to catch on things.

#BTW, what are the differences between a S&W 3913 and a S&W 3913 Lady Smith?

Frame and grips differently shaped slightly (to fit a woman's hand better),
says ladysmith on the side.

#What are the pros and cons for a guy to use a Lady Smith? ;)

Seriously, if (god forbid) you use it defensively, it will be a 
little harder for a GSL (greasy-snake-lawyer) to claim you
were being a Rambo type. Its too big and expensive to be
called a Saturday Night Special whatever that is, and too
small and "pretty" to be a RAMBO GUN(tm)


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:10:50 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Nov10.104420.19488@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

}Well, the 'perp' (at about 5 ft 'range' from you) whips out a card from
}his back pocket which states:  "Please forgive me, I am deaf and cannot
}understand what you are saying.  Can you write it down please?".
}
}BTW, about 99.9% of the class had said 'bang' ...

"Deaf" does not equal "stupid."  Anyone who doesn't put their hands up and
continues to advance on a uniformed police officer who's pointing a gun at
them is committing felony stupidity -- often a capital crime.  Those who
said "bang" did the right thing.  They'll survive.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405