HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar

Why are people still playing CoreWars?  I stopped playing a few years ago
when I determined Vampire type fighters have too much advantages over other
types of fighters; one hit and the game is over.

I can describe my last CoreWars fighter as 2 parallel running vampires that
periodically check if the twin is dead or not.  If so, the survivor will turn
itself into multiplying rabits.  It's insurance against lucky shots.

How do the latest champions work?  If things have changed, please correct
my theory about vampires.


 -Thomas Wang           (Everything is an object.)           wang@cup.hp.com
From: @prism.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: PC new corewar simulator program
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:55:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1efdosINN8pg
Organization: CS Dept, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu


It's called "c88v202.zip". Uploaded on soda.berkeley.edu under directory
/pub/corewar/incoming. It's compatible with '88 standard and was intended to be
used with KotH programs.

Description:
-----------
- Simple graphic interface (Much like kothpc)
- Multiple round battles (Maximum 127)
- Speed optimization
- Simple debugging facility

Requirement:
-----------
1. 640K memory (suggested)
2. CGA color

c88 doesn't use memory allocation and deallocation except during parsing.
Instead it uses array management. It is very fast and eliminates problems
which occur due to heap management.

--- W. Mintardjo
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
From: pk6811s@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Anti-PitTrap Code
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:54:30 GMT

Well, Sucker 4 nearly made it to 1000, and Sucker 5
looks like a good bet to do even better.  There's just
one problem.  Pit-trappers are EASY to beat, because they
drop pointers to themselves all over core.  Try running
this three-line program against Sucker 4:

trace    mov 10,<-10
         sub @trace,<trace
         jmp trace

Then figure out how you can incorporate the first two lines
into a loop in your own fighter.  Or create a three-line 
'outrigger' running somewhere outside your program - 
that's what I do in Imprimis 3.  It doesn't need many 
cycles, it can be a slow but sure killer.

Testing against imp-rings also gives some interesting results -
such as tracing an imp-line back to it's source.  Not fatal,
but sometimes kills the stone.

Peace.

Paul Kline
pk6811s@acad.drake.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: Re: Copycat and more
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 11:55:44 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <1efceeINN85l@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> @prism.cs.orst.edu writes:
>
>Now, imagine a situation when somebody submitted his program into KotH. And
>somehow, his program inspired two other people who never know each other.
>Both developed the same techniques and submitted the almost similar programs.
>Both were success. Then who claimed the original ideas?
>
>This might be the exact situation of the current debate about Impressive and
>Imprimis.

   Yes, now I understand that this was a situation.
I posted my program earlier, but Paul used some additional tricks
and he is an author of Emerald, which is better than my dwarf Dain.

	 Dan
From: stst@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Stefan Strack)
Subject: Re: Copy cats
Keywords: corewar
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:30:15 GMT

In article <28334@castle.ed.ac.uk> sah@castle.ed.ac.uk (Juggler) writes:
>
>Roger Ford (or is it Chris??) writes:
>There are a finite number of ways to implement Red Code warrriors,
>just as an example.  Both Sucker 4 and the first Kobold both use a step 
>rate of 37.  Granted one bombs and one slaves  are we going to say that
>one guy copied another.  No matter what you change the step rate to
>Emerald is just Kobold is just  Stone.
>

Well, in this case it's genuinely "parallel development". Sucker 4 entered the
hill sometime May/June, but I didn't post the code until it got pushed off 
two weeks ago. The code to Kobold was posted somewhere between those two time
points, I think. A good constant can make the difference between doom and
success on KotH, but it strikes me as silly to claim "intellectual
property" for a number.

I personally have no problem with copycatting, *provided* the code originator
is acknowledged in the strategy lines or as co-author. I've had a long and
fruitful collaboration with Jules Cisek that started when I optimized his 
posted Charon v1.0. Lately, Matt Hastings has approached me with some
anti-imp mods to Agony (taught me a lot about ring-defenses, too), a
collaboration I hope to continue.

-Stefan (stst@vuse.vanderbilt.edu)

P.S.: I wish Bill Shubert would add a filter to KotH that rejects warriors
with missing or uninformative strategy lines. "Sorry, your redcode program
did not compile successfully due to insufficient documentation" :-) :-)
From: maniac@taj.cs.unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.corewar
Subject: Lazy imp-ring defense [X-hill]
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:44:51 GMT
Reply-To: maniac@taj.cs.unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering


Imp rings on the X-hill tend to work differently than they do on the
standard hill.  Among the reasons for this, the largest step an
imp-ring can use on the X-hill is 250, which limits you to a few values,
like 127, 63, and 21.  One of the effects this has on gating is that
you can't be sure what step is being used in the attack, so you need
to make your gates adaptive.  The problem with this is that X-hill
programs tend to be larger, hence more vulnerable to imp rings and 
my adaptive gates tend to be just large enough that it either won't
fit, or makes the program too big of a target.

Well, I came up with what I call the lazy imp-ring defense, which is
to launch an imp if you unexpectedly find yourself outside your program.

Many of my programs use monitors, which just wait for a certain number
of clock cycles to occur, then do some action.  Here is how it looks
in most of my programs

	MOV	#WAIT, DELAY
DELAY	DJN	DELAY,#0
	JMZ	DOIT,DELAY
	MOV	0,1

Basically, as soon as the imp ring writes (MOV 0,STEP) to DELAY,
it drops out of the delay loop, and since DELAY isn't 0, we know we left
abnormally.  Now, an imp isn't the best imp-ring defense, but I find it
scores much better than many of my own programs (Sonic Boom in particular)
and at any rate, deprives the opponent of a lot of points.

-- 
Eric J. Schwertfeger, maniac@cs.unlv.edu
From: maniac@unlv.edu (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Subject: Re: Copy cats
Organization: Too many
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:04:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.085805.1@acad.drake.edu> pk6811s@acad.drake.edu writes:
>More on copycatting:
>
>In reality we all build on what others have done.  Even IMPire built
>on the old imp strategy.  I think most people get stuck trying to
>make an existing strategy more efficient - less lines of code, instead
>of mixing strategies or trying something new.  The originator has probably
>tested many variations already, so we're not likely to improve an
>existing program, and as the other guy (I forgot who's note I was replying
>to) stated, "my variations usually degenerate into the existing Emerald
>or Nomuckingabout or whatever".

Even Backfire, which I thought was original when I first wrote it was
doing the same thing as a few other programs, though in a different
manner.

>There are certain redcode irreducibles: an imp, a three-line bomber,
>a six-line mouse, stone, etc.  These have aged sufficiently to be 
>considered 'components', which can be incorporated into new, more
>complex programs.

Sounds like how I do my X-Hill development.  I have a few core
routines that are generic (steps defined by EQU, etc), and I
just string togetheher routines.  I wish KOTH supported an
include statement, it would make updating my warriors easier 
when I update a module :-).  I've got modules for forward carpet
bomb, forward SPL CB, reverse for both, fwd and rev fasttrack
(something that I haven't used in the hill yet), Anti-replicator
missiles, decoys, monitors, imp-gates, etc.  The hardest part
is fitting several complex modules into a single 100 line
program.  Master Tactician was a project of mine that
got shelved because the finished program would have been 140
lines of code, so I stupified it and released it as chameleon.
And on the X-hill, 100 line programs can be successful.  Most of
my long programs are just that.  In fact, Sonic Boom 3.2 was exactly
100 lines long, without a single byte of padding.  So was Spider 2,
for that matter.

If you haven't guessed, yes I'm trying to encourage X-hill
development, rather than continuing flames.  Reuse of redcode
is pretty much normal.  The idea for repeating core-clears started
with Spider 2.1, to the best of my knowledge, I made them more
popular, and now they appear in most of the top 10 X-Hill warriors.

I was a little afraid to publish the source to Echo or Sonic boom
at first, because I was afraid to cause a flood of imitators, but
I don't see that as a problem anymore.  sonic Boom 1.2 is the first
definite improvement to Sonic Boom 1.0 that I've done, and that
took a lot of work, not some trivial modifications.  In fact,
1.2 is mostly a major, but very subtle bug fix to SB 1.0

Enough about that, lets talk new uses for old ideas :-)
-- 
Eric J. Schwertfeger, maniac@cs.unlv.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Raymond L. Gilbert)
Subject: TEST (ignore)
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: ucs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:11:32 GMT

  Sorry for this test.. but I figured nobody reads this group anyway.
:-)
From: ldw@dilligaf.diag.stratus.com (Larry Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
Subject: Ultra Rogue
Keywords: rogue, urogue
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:31:38 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: dilligaf.diag.stratus.com


Hi All,

I was curious if anyone had a copy of ultra rogue for a sun sparcstation or better
the source code for ultra rogue. 

Larry D. Wilson Sr.   (505)490-6639  Shhhh, Stratus doesn't know I'm here, ... yet.
Systems Diagnostics   ldw@stratus.com
Stratus Computer      ldw@dilligaf.diag.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: anonymous@use.net
Subject: Re: TEST (ignore)
Originator: pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Anonymous U.
Distribution: ucs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:18:33 GMT

In article <BxupF8.DCq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Raymond L. Gilbert) writes:
>  Sorry for this test.. but I figured nobody reads this group anyway.
>:-)
From: ben@angelo.amd.com (Ben Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
Subject: Need help from role players
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:35:10 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Santa Clara, CA

Hello role players,


I'm not sure if this is exactly the right place for this but I thought
if anyone knew it would be you.

I'm looking for any outfit that will offer a real life role playing
adventure.  If not, I could settle for a do it yourself kit.  I would
like to plan a little adventure trip and would rather use something
prepackaged or, better yet, find someone who does it for a fee.

Please send responses to ben.chang@amd.com.

Thanks!

Ben
~  
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: an273@anon.penet.fi
Subject: FINAL TEST (hopefully... please ignore)
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:53:27 GMT

    Just ignore this test.. I figured people don't read this group anyway. :-)
--
To use this service, send mail to:
Anonymous posting:	<name.of.news.group>@anon.penet.fi
Anonymous mail:		<user's alias>@anon.penet.fi
			<user%host>@anon.penet.fi
Test path/get alias:	ping@anon.penet.fi
Assign nickname:	nick@anon.penet.fi	(in Subject:)
Anon administrator:	an0@anon.penet.fi	(anonymously)
			admin@anon.penet.fi	(non-anon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: anonymous@use.net
Subject: Re: TEST (ignore)
Originator: pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: IU
Distribution: ucs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:28:18 GMT

In article <Bxupqy.Dss@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> anonymous@use.net writes:
>In article <BxupF8.DCq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Raymond L. Gilbert) writes:
>>  Sorry for this test.. but I figured nobody reads this group anyway.
>>:-)
>
>
From: ben@angelo.amd.com (Ben Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
Subject: Need help from role players
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:33:00 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Santa Clara, CA


Hello role players,


I'm not sure if this is exactly the right place for this but I thought
if anyone knew it would be you.

I'm looking for any outfit that will offer a real life role playing
adventure.  If not, I could settle for a do it yourself kit.  I would
like to plan a little adventure trip and would rather use something
prepackaged or, better yet, find someone who does it for a fee.

Please send responses to ben.chang@amd.com.

Thanks!

Ben
Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
Subject: Help on Save
From: cvakgaaz@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:37:43 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvakgaaz

If anyone knows how to save and retrieve saved games from rogue, I would
greatly appreciate knowing how.  I was able to save games but I can't restart
them.  I keep getting killed at higher levels so I can never complete the game.

Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: mason@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Ken Mason)
Subject: Re: Help on Save
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:56:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.143743.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvakgaaz@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>If anyone knows how to save and retrieve saved games from rogue, I would
>greatly appreciate knowing how.  I was able to save games but I can't restart
>them.  I keep getting killed at higher levels so I can never complete the game.
>

well, in the version that I use,  a shift-s will save the game.


In order to restart that saved game I type in the following:


		rogue ~mason/rogue.save<cr>

the <cr> is the return key.  Of course, I'm using a unix version of rogue.

I also noticed on a pc version, you can copy the saved game, and can continue to be killed over and over again and still be at the same level.  This does take
 coping the file every time _before_ you play, since the game erases the file
 that you type in.


hope this helps.



Ken Mason
=========
Mason@Ponder.csci.unt.edu
---------
"Science is a novel, where the text is failure, punctuated by success."
			-- My math teacher

"The biggest problem in the world today, is that humans never have enough
	_time_."	-- Ken Mason

"May peace live long and prosper"   -- Ken Mason

"Never out stubborn a cat."	    -- Lasarus Long
=========

Newsgroups: rec.games.rogue
From: pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Raymond L. Gilbert)
Subject: Re: TEST (ignore)
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: ucs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:35:05 GMT

In article <Bxuq77.EJ8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> anonymous@use.net writes:
>In article <Bxupqy.Dss@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> anonymous@use.net writes:
>>In article <BxupF8.DCq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> pi@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Raymond L. Gilbert) writes:
>>>  Sorry for this test.. but I figured nobody reads this group anyway.
>>>:-)
>>
>>
>
>
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: PBEM Fanzine # 92-05
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:28:50 GMT
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia

>Hogan Long is developing a new PBEM system and is looking for
>"sympathetic, understanding, and enthusiastic beta testers". The
>system is something like Walter Bright's Empire game, in which you
>capture cities and build armies and fleets, and sort of like Sid
>Myer's Civilization. You can contact him at Hogan@cims.cs.nyu.edu.

An astute would-be beta-tester points out that this host doesn't
exist. However, hogan@cs.nyu.edu seems to be ok. Sorry for the mix-up.
From: ck257@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael E. Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: Blast ya Back (wasting news space)
Date: 21 Nov 1992 20:34:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


As I recall, it was you who challenged hoping to skam skills off
of Mr.Lee.  It wasn't my fault that I was going 7-9 or something
with a medium shield.  Yes, I won both times, but you got a skill
(grin).

For the benifit of other DM players, you don't have to worry 
about things like training a stat at 50% or very, very slow
skill learns (when at 110+ skills) in Adventurers Guild.  No matter
what, your character is ALWAYS gaining experience points (EP)
to spend.  And also gaining knowledge points (KP) to spend on
other skills like Combat Sense, Avoid Traps, Backstab, Magic
(outside of Guild fighting), spells like Magical Fury, Cure Party,
Block Missiles, and Protection.

mike lee
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
From: wool8657@mach1.wlu.ca (john woolsey 9209 U)
Subject: Re: BattleTech PBeM Development Group
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:09:40 GMT

In article <9211131043.AA00303@fccn01.fccn.pt> bc@fccn01.fccn.pt (Luis Miguel Sequeira) writes:
>	Matt (BURGESMW@cnsvax.uwec.edu) on article
><1992Nov12.140512.2307@cnsvax.uwec.edu> writes:
>>I don't know anything about BATTLETECH except that I believe FASA
>>supported the creation of it.
>
>	The question which arises is a legal one. By creating a PBeM
>based on the BattleTech setting, even a free one, without any idea on
>making profit with the game, aren't we violating any copyrights or
>other legal protecting matters belonging to FASA?
If the game is free it is difficult to sue. This is because you usually end
up sueing for profits, and there aren't any. Basically all they can do is
shut you down. This is what I have heard anyways. I wouldn't ask FASA about
the legal rights they are not impartial. Go talk to a lawer first.
>
>	This could lead to the development to a PBeM on a "clone
>world" without any mention to FASA's BattleTech, if no other options
>were available.
Why not. Most of the art in the orriginal BattleTech books were photo-copies
out of RoboTech. All of the orriginal mechs also sucked because they
attempted to emulate the mechs in RoboTech, which according the battleTech
equations of constructability didn't work at all. For example a RifleMan is
really a Radar X, and cannot fire all of its weapons at the same time
without risking explosion. What a good mech design :-)
>
>	1) Does anyone know if FASA has Internet capability, or some
>other form to be contacted (besides snail mail or phone)?
They have no way of connecting, and they do not read this group for sure.
>
>	2) In that case, and as living in Portugal, Europe
>(overseas!), can anyone ask a representative of FASA about this
>matters?
Sueing out of the country is very difficult if not impossible. Why do you
think FASA got away with ripping off RoboTech.
>
>	If not, and if enough people are still interested in
>developing a BattleTech PBeM, I'll write FASA myself and wait for an
>answer (it takes at least one month to get snail mail twice across the
>Atlantic). I've heard from my friend that they are really a bunch of
>nice guys, but you never know...
They threatened to Sue StarTrek silly if they copied anything from the games
that they produced for them in a new version. StarTrek cut their contract
because they kept writing things for the StarTrek universe without asking if
it was okay, and eventually the producers of StarTrek got tired of the two
inconsistent universes.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
From: gmi@postman.hsn.no (GEIR MIKKELSEN)
Subject: Play By Mail in Scandinavia
Organization: Nordland College
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:41:18 GMT

I am not sure if there are any Scandinavian PBM'ers out there but I'll give 
it a try ! I just want to inform Scandinavian players, especially Norwegian 
players that there is a 'new kid on the block' called ->

Arctic Circle Games, and their adress is - P.O.Box 6142, N-8016 Morkved, 
Norway. If you want more information about them - dont hesitate to send me 
a email.

Mikkelsen.G@stud.hsn.no
Bye
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
From: dresnick@athena.mit.edu (David I Resnick)
Subject: dm - some rollups
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:45:56 GMT

Hi,

After reading about DM for a while, I figured I'd give it a try.  I
got the following rollups, and would greatly appreciate
advice/comments.

1) 11 5 14  9  9 13 9
   11 5 14 15 15 13 11 Striker

This one was fairly easy.  Based on advice I've seen repeatedly, 15
wit/will and 11 deft is good for long term warriors.  As for style,
its not easy for me to figure out.  I gather that a low con indicates
that a defensive style is not good (can't soak up damage well).  I
guess that this guy should do good damage (large, fairly strong).
Does his speed point him in some direction?

2) 13 11 4 4 13 13 12
   14 17 4 4 17 13 15 TP

I'm not really sure what to do with this guy.  His small size and high
con seem to point him towards a defensive style.  His low wit says
short term.  

3) 10 11 14 5 10 9 11
   16 12 14 5 11 9 17 SL

Big and dumb.  Looks like a short term offensive?

4)  9 13 17 8 4 11  8
   15 13 17 8 9 11 11 BA

Bigger and pretty dumb.  I'm sort of at a loss for what to do with
him.  

5) 14 11 13 8  7 13 4
   19 11 13 8 11 13 9 LU

Another big strong guy (I got lots of these!).  

Some general questions:

A) What qualities in a warrior dictate style choice?  The only things
      that I've gathered are:
                    High          Low
             Con    defensive     offensive
          Str Siz   offensive     defensive
   Are these impressions correct?  How about other stats?  Are there
rules of thumb for these things? (e.g. never take a strike with speed
less than X).  If one could create warriors from scratch, what is the
ideal warrior for each style? (probably too sweeping a question!).

B) Does gender choice of warriors have any combat effects?

C) What determines whether one should train stats or skills?  Should
    I train the con of the first warrior described above (my only long
    term guy, I guess!)

D) What is a good arena to pick?  I'd like one with at least some     
     other beginners!

Anyway, I'd be grateful for any ideas and comments!
--
       David Resnick                           dresnick@athena.mit.edu
From: sdf@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Stephen Fulton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: PBEM Fanzine # 92-05
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:36:04 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

Please could you tell me what pbm games are starting in the U.K.
Due to the fact that Edinburgh University doesn't appreciate me sending international
email. Thanks.
From: leeme@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: DM - Jim Smith's Slasher
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:11:17 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <PICASSO.92Nov18231136@bass.bu.edu>, picasso@bass.bu.edu (David Ondzes) writes:
> 
> 
> One question for debate is which slasher has better init given
> everything else the same ?
> 
> A) 17 SPD 11 DFT
> B) 11 SPD 17 DFT
> 

I like the 17 DF guy better, mainly because later on in life slashers
make those crit dodges too, and speed just isn't going to give it to
em.  I always considered speed for any style kind of a waste, even
for strikers or slashers.  Points better spent in DF, WT, or WL.  

Of course, this is only my opinion on what a character should look like,
people can do well with a high speed and maximize skills associated
with speed.

mike lee
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm