HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gurman@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joseph B. Gurman)
Subject: Re: alpha memory requirements (vs vax) ?
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:54:56 GMT

bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:

>The point is well taken however;  I don't know the speed of the chips
>in the Alpha memory arrays.  70ns is however a common clock rate for
>the faster chips ... though I do know of some that are a bit faster.

    One third-party vendor claimed to me that the SandPiper SIMMs use 80
ns memory (presumably, they could use faster, but it wouldn't do one any
good), so I guess the Alpha must be doing some heavy-duty pipelining. I
guess the alternative was having memory no one could afford (the
traditional DEC solution?).

    The $6400 price for 32 Mbyte of memory was way over what I was
quoted (by a factor of something like 2+). Your mileage may vary....

						Joe Gurman
--
J.B. Gurman / Solar Physics Branch / NASA Goddard Space Flight Center /
Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / gurman@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov
| Federal employees are prohibited from holding opinions under the Hatch Act.|
| Therefore, any opinions expressed herein are somebody else's.              |
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6083 misc.forsale.computers.other:669 vmsnet.pdp-11:859
From: mcgee@csusb
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,misc.forsale.computers.other,vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject: DEC PDP-11/23 For Sale
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:48:18 GMT
Organization: California State University, San Bernardino
Nntp-Posting-User: mcgee

Greetings!

I have the following system for sale.  This machine was my entry into the realm 
of the DEC hobbyists.  It has served me well for the four years I have owned 
it, but floorspace constraints require that I part with it.

	PDP-11/23 (BA11-N)	KDF11-BE (M8189 rev. C1)
				NS23Q (National 256KB memory rev. F)
				DLV11-J (M8043 rev. D)
				SDC-DLV11J (Sigma DLV11-J equivalent)
				RXV21 (M8029 rev. F)
				RLV11 (M8013 rev. F/M8014 rev. C)
				BDV11 (M8012 rev. D)

	RL02-A (10MB cartridge disk)
	RX02-BA (dual 8-inch floppy drive)

Everything is mounted in a standard DEC rack with an 871A power controller.  
All components have been refurbished (disassembled, thoroughly cleaned, and
tested).  The system runs perfectly off household current.

This system will run RT-11, RSX-11M, and might even run ULTRIX-11 (I have not 
tried this one).

I live in the Los Angeles are (southern California, USA).  The size and weight 
of this system may make shipping very costly, so I would prefer not to do so.

I originally paid $550 for the system, but prices have fallen quite a bit since 
I bought it.  I have put a lot of work into refurbishing and maintaining it.

If there is any interest out there, send me an offer over E-mail or call.  I 
will throw in a *complete* RSX-11M manual set (V4.0).

Thanks,

Jeff.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
	Jeff Shirley	jshirley@gdwest.gd.com	Home: (714)981-5855
			mcgee%csusb@csus.edu	Work: (714)868-6793
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms
From: strange@zk3.dec.com (Steve Strange)
Subject: Re: alpha memory requirements (vs vax) ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
	<1992Nov13.162542.5834@ais.com> <BxtJvM.GBw@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<1992Nov16.161557.5840@ais.com> <gurman.722022896@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:13:00

In article <gurman.722022896@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov> gurman@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joseph B. Gurman) writes:

       One third-party vendor claimed to me that the SandPiper SIMMs use 80
   ns memory (presumably, they could use faster, but it wouldn't do one any
   good), so I guess the Alpha must be doing some heavy-duty pipelining. I
   guess the alternative was having memory no one could afford (the
   traditional DEC solution?).

Well, yes, it is doing some "heavy-duty pipelining", but as a previous
post mentioned, it's the cache that allows the processor to run much
faster than the main memory.  This is certainly not unique to Alpha --
even many (most?) PCs these days have to do this.

	Steve
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Steve Strange            |   Opinions expressed are my own and not      |
|   Digital Equipment Corp.  |   necessarily those of my employer, or       |
|   Nashua, NH 03062-2698    |   of anyone else, for that matter.           |
|   strange@zk3.dec.com      |                                              |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Alpha idioms?
Summary: any style guides out there for good Alpha code?
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:18:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.By4wEF.Etv.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Who do I ask, or where do I look, to find programming idioms/macros/
whatever to help me get good code out of OSF/1 C?

Specifically, I coded
	... = ppixel->r;
	... = ppixel->g;
	... = ppixel->b;

(a pixel being 4 bytes, suitably aligned since it was malloc'd)
and the compiler insisted on doing 3 loads. 
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: zapantis@uvphys.phys.uvic.ca (Nik Zapantis)
Subject: Is the Alpha 3000(400/500) board upgradable?
Reply-To: zapantis@uvphys.phys.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Physics & Astronomy
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:07:30 GMT



In the literature I received in last week's Alpha announcement, I see that
only the 4000,7000 and 10000 systems are listed as board upgradable to faster
CPUs, when they become available.
How about the 3000 systems? No daughter|mother board upgrades planned?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Nik Zapantis                  | zapantis@uvphys     (BITNET)  |
| Dept. of Physics & Astronomy  | 45393::zapantis(HEPnet/SPAN)  |
| University of Victoria        | zapantis@uvphys.phys.UVic.CA  |
| Victoria, BC                  | Phone: (604)721-7729          |
| V8W 3P6                       | FAX:   (604)721-7715          |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: dembo@csri.toronto.edu (Prof. Ron Dembo)
Subject: source for X11R5 server for PXG+
Keywords: ultrix4.3 X11R5 PXG source
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:57:13 GMT

We recently invested in a nifty 5000/240 with a PXG+
graphics accelerator.  Unfortunately, the server supplied
was R4 decWindows.  The rest of our network runs R5
servers (on multiple platforms).  Does anyone know if source
is available for an R5  sever that supports/takes advantage of the
PXG+.

	Thanks in advance
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. Ranum AXP)
Subject: Re: alpha memory requirements (vs vax) ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:23:11 GMT

jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>70ns 1Mb chips are selling for less
>than $2.50 per in volume... that works out to less than $25 for a
>9-chip SIMM.  If your manufacturing cost is as high as $10/SIMM,
>that's still nearly a 300% markup.

	Have you ever tried making your own SIMMs to save money?

	Memory, like everything else, is subject to laws of supply and
demand. If a third party starts making memory and selling it for some
low price, they'll sell a lot more memory than DEC will. There's a lot
more to bringing a product to market than the cost of manufacture and
the cost of the components. Try going into the add-on memory business
and you'll learn pretty quick.

mjr.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: cannell@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com (Larry Cannell)
Subject: Re: PostScript in lps20, help!!
Organization: Ford Motor Co., Powertrain Electronics
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:11:53 GMT

Paul Chen (paul@sci.ccny.cuny.edu) wrote:
: 
: We have some problems to some of PostScript files (not all of them)
: in our lps20, and these files can be printed in QMS or HP without
: any problems. Lps20 can print most of PS files, only some 'special
: or complicated' PS files can't be printed.
: May be we need more fonts? How can I find out how many fonts we have?
: Any suggestions?
: 

Several months ago a release of the printserver software included postscript
code which defined some additional postscript commands that some other printer
manufacturers chose to implement in their printers.  I believe something like
LPS$STATUSDICT was the file name.  We added this to our postscript device
control library on the VMS side.  So now when we get some postscript code that
dies we try printing it with PRINT/SETUP=LPS$STATUS ...   On the Ultrix side we
modifed xlator_call to add another datatype which prepends this file to the
postscript. 

-- 
Larry Cannell (cannell@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com) 
Powertrain Electronics
Ford Motor Company
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: phil@news.ccutah.edu (Phillip Neiswanger)
Subject: Alpha Documentation...
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 03:33:42 GMT

Hi,

Just wondering how much nitty gritty hardware documentation is currently
available for any of the Alpha workstations.
--
				phil
				email:	phil@csulx.weber.edu
					phil@icarus.weber.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: mcdowell@exlogcorp.exlog.com (Steve McDowell)
Subject: PDP-11 software source
Organization: EXLOG, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:13:24 GMT


My question is simple: Are there any archive sites on the net
for PDP-11 software? I've searched through archie with no 
luck, thought I'd try here. 

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Steve McDowell             . . . . o o o o o 		Opinions are 
Exlog, Inc.	                  _____      o     	mine, not my 
mcdowell@exlog.com      _____====  ]OO|_n_n__][.    	employers..
		       [_________]_|__|________)<   
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Gary Oehlert)
Subject: Re: Is the Alpha 3000(400/500) board upgradable?
Organization: School of Statistics, University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:06:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.232048.29205@sol.UVic.CA>, zapantis@uvphys.phys.uvic.ca (Nik Zapantis) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Nov18.154130.22416@PA.dec.com>, rjones@wsl.dec.com (Russ Jones) writes:
|> >
|> |>Nik,
|> |>
|> |>The DEC 3000 AXP Workstations are "classic" single-board computers. 
|> |> There are no CPU daughtercards.  However, rest assured that these 
|> |>workstations will be upgradeable over time through many iterations
|> |> of faster Alpha performance levels. 
|> |>
|> |>-- 
|> |>Russ Jones
|> |>UNIX Marketing
|> |>Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA
|> |>All opinions expressed are mine, and not necessarily those of my employer
|> |>
|> 
|> Should I read the above answer as a 'yes' to my question? Will DEC offer a
|> "classic" single-board upgrade for these systems?
|> One of the selling points of HP, IBM and now SUN, is that board upgrades will
|> be offered as new/faster CPUs become available.
|> I sure hope DEC does not choose to be different.
|> 
|> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|> | Nik Zapantis                  | zapantis@uvphys     (BITNET)  |
|> | Dept. of Physics & Astronomy  | 45393::zapantis(HEPnet/SPAN)  |
|> | University of Victoria        | zapantis@uvphys.phys.UVic.CA  |
|> | Victoria, BC                  | Phone: (604)721-7729          |
|> | V8W 3P6                       | FAX:   (604)721-7715          |
|> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Remember all those upgrades we were promised for our DECstations???


-- 

Gary W. Oehlert					Voice: 612-625-4758
Dept. of Applied Statistics			Fax:   612-624-2719
University of Minnesota				
1994 Buford Ave.				gary@umnstat.stat.umn.edu
St. Paul, MN 55108
From: acciai_g@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Guy Acciai)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: AlphaVMS - Production Ready???
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:03:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

I work for a local company that's about to expand it's production facilities
next year (12/93 time frame).  They are a DEC shop currently running VMS, and
given the size of the expansion a large hardware upgrade is planned (currently
using several uVAX 3900's).  Anyways, I suggested looking into Alpha boxes
for deployment next year.  This usage is 24hr/day 365days/year, and the plant
is VERY dependant on these machines being up & running reliably.  Anyways, our
DEC sales rep seriously downplayed using Alphaboxes & AlphaVMS in such an 
enviroment.  He reasons were, "while the hardware's ok, the software will
not be ready/stable for such a production enviroment".  I was very surprised
by such a response given DEC's claims that VAX/VMS -> ALPHA/VMS ports are
supposed to be fairly trival and that our application is over a year after
commerical release.  Our software base includes (please, no flames for this):
Fortran, C, COBOL, FMS, DECNet (end nodes & routers), WPS, DTR, SNA, Ingres,
DECWindows, TCP/IP, and Pathworks.  Our rep, instead is pushing for 4000-100's
to later '(2-3) years' be replaced with alpha boxes.  

The question (preferabbly to DEC product mangers & marketing types), Am I 
being to agressive in migrating to Alpha a year from now (given my application)
or is my sales rep trying to boost sales now AND later???

I'm sure this one should generate some interesting debate..

					Thanks Much,
					       GACE
					       (acciai_g@csgrad.cs.vt.edu)
						   
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: roland@quadsys.com (Roland Besserer)
Subject: Re: postscript printer for VMS or Ultrix for under $1000?
Organization: QUAD Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:03:58 GMT

>>
>>    Is there a postscript laserprinter that will work with VMS or
>>Ultrix, that can be bought for under $1000.00 and really works? Please
>>reply to mlevin@husc8.harvard.edu.
>>
>>Mike Levin
>
>Any PostScript printer that has a serial port can be used with VMS.  We have
>HP, QMS, TI, Apple, NEC and more connected.
>

For a <$1K laser printer, try the Abaton LaserScript LX. I paid $1099 for
it, but it should run about $999 now. Its a 6ppm printer with 2.5 or 4MB
memory. It has 2 serial ports, 1 parallel and 1 AppleTalk port. All can be
active simultaneously and are multiplexed internally. It also has automatic
PostScript/HP switching.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with it. Recommended.
-- 

Roland Besserer
QUAD Systems
roland@quadsys.com
From: xmbs_gh@debet.nhh.no
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Looking for memory for uVAX 2000(!)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:45:39 MET
Organization: MBS Fjerndata a.s Bergen, Norway

Hi!

I'm looking for more memory for my uVAX 2000 at home. I need an 8 or 12
Mb memory module. I'm also looking for a keyboard: LK201 (preferrably
Norwegian of course, but UK or US is fine).

Can anyone help?

Please reply via e-mail. Thanks!

Gunnar

/------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Gunnar Helliesen, Sen. Systems Cons., MBS Fjerndata a.s, Bergen, Norway      |
| INTERNET: xmbs_gh@debet.nhh.no        PHONE: Intl + 47 5 34 38 00            |
| From APPLELINK: add "@INTERNET#"      FAX: Intl + 47 5 34 56 90              |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "The Universe is old enough and big enough to take care of itself"           |
|  - Douglas Adams in 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'                    |
\------------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: oberman@ptavv.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: FORTRAN, OSF/1, Alpha AXP
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:47:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.120625.19495@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, sjc1@pooh.amtp.cam.ac.uk (Stephen J Cowley) writes:
> 
> Has anyone experience of running FORTRAN under OSF/1 (rather than
> VMS) on an alpha box. If so:
> (a) How stable is the compiler
> (b) How fast is the compiled code

There is no FORTRAN compiler for OSF/1 at this time. Last word I have is that
the FORTRAN compiler for OSF/1 won't be available for at least a month.

R. Kevin Oberman			Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Internet: koberman@llnl.gov		(510) 422-6955

Disclaimer: Don't take this too seriously. I just like to improve my typing
and probably don't really know anything useful about anything.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: ajc@pa.dec.com (AJ Casamento)
Subject: Re: Alpha speed?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
	<1992Nov12.185419.15565@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
	<1992Nov13.025648.8881@crl.dec.com>
	<1992Nov19.205638.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:54:58




In article <1992Nov19.205638.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au 
writes:


>>200 and 150 are the numbers I hae seen in all the DEC stuff, but the 133MHz 
>>is a new one. Why? Heat? Lower speed support chips?

>>  ~Paul

Paul,

  There are a number of reasons. Lower speed support chips is one. But, just
as real is power and heat for the 21064. I think in the DEC 3000 Model 500 it
is running @23-25W of power. Which requires quite a bit of cooling. That is a
bit of a hurdle in compact desktop boxes (one which most vendors are having to
think about now...). 

  Cost is another factor. By using slower speed chips in entry level products
we can offer products at lower costs.

I hope that helps.

				Thanx,
				  AJ


      **********************************************************************
      * AJ Casamento			"The question is not whether or    *
      * Digital's TRI/ADD Program	 not the opinions are mine; but    *
      * 529 Bryant Ave. PAG-2		 rather, which of my personalities *
      * Palo Alto, CA 94301-1616	 do they belong to?"		   *
      * 415.617.3460							   *
      * ajc@pa.dec.com  						   *
      **********************************************************************
From: dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Disk drives for Vax Station II
Date: 18 Nov 1992 06:34:45 GMT
Organization: Academic Computer User Services
Reply-To: DGray@uh.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: menudo.uh.edu


Okay, I understand that DEc no longer supports the RD52 drive that I
am currently running.  (However, I don't care about DEC anymore!)
Anyway, I would like to know some things about a second Hard drive for
this thing.  It has another connector for a second disk, but I don't
know anything about what I can get for it.  I assume I could find
another RD52 and plug it right in, but would like to know for sure.

Your help is appreciated as always,
-dennis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.ultrix
From: sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman)
Subject: Re: tcsh on DEC OSF/1 Alpha
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:18:51 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

In <2B0C83D9.11216@news.service.uci.edu> iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias) writes:


>Does anyone have config files/source changes/etc to get tcsh v6.02 to
>compile on an DEC Alpha system running OSF/1?  I've made a stab at
>it, but the compile dies right away in tc.os.h where it defines
>sigpause().

Nobody will believe this, but I took a Makefile created by imake on a
SunOs 4.1.2, and copied to the osf/1 box, and the compile went perfectly.
It has worked to this day without crashing once.

Seems that OSF run-time libs looks a lot like SunOs run-time libs. 
-- 
     ____/     /     /     __  /    _  _/    ____/
    /         /     /     /   /      /     /          Chris Sherman
   /         ___   /        _/      /          /
 _____/   __/   __/   __/ _\    _____/   _____/           sherman@unx.sas.com
From: dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 05:36:10 GMT
Organization: Academic Computer User Services
	<1992Nov18.054500.2450@csrd.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Nov19.121523.8216@brt.deakin.edu.au>
Reply-To: DGray@uh.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: menudo.uh.edu
In-reply-to: dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au's message of 19 Nov 92 12:15:22 EST

In article <1992Nov19.121523.8216@brt.deakin.edu.au> dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller) writes:

   >DEC "support" will not even talk to you unless you have one of their
   >outrageously priced service contracts.  

   More "outrageous prices" --- care to justify these assertions?

Okay, How many manufacturers are getting $10,000 for a 1.3 gig drive?
How about $2000 for a single hard drive controller?  $8,000 for a 351
meg drive?  (I would point out that an 8 meg RAM card costs $8,000,
but I understand SGI has even higher prices than that.)  These are
what I call outrageous prices.

   If you think any vendor nowadays has any margin left on hardware sales that
   they can use to subsidise other parts of their business, then you have been
   asleep for the last five years.

Never mind that other vendors *ARE* doing this.  On site service is
another matter, but I can't think of another company who will not halp
you out with a problem on the phone.

-dennis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
Reply-To: alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com (Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Tumbleweeds.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:19:25 GMT


[ Quite a few follow-ups back Dennis Gray Jr. started a thread on
  support from Digital Equipment Corporation.  Along the way he
  mentioned a mysterious $10,000 disk drive. ]

A year ago, I can imagine that some of our 1 GB disk drives may
have cost that much.  Six months ago it may have still been possible
though unlikely for just a basic drive.  Today I looked our price
list and all the 1 GB drives we sell and produced the following
summary:

RF72    +R215F expansion enclosure      10,475.00
RZ57    +R23RZ-CS Rack                   9,300.00
RA72    Removable                        7,800.00
RZ57    Removable                        6,300.00
RZ57    in Storage Expansion box         5,000.00

RF72    Basic                            3,575.00
RA72    Basic                            3,475.00
RZ26    Basic                            2,850.00
RZ57    Basic                            2,250.00

Yes, we still have a $10,000 disk drive.  But that includes a
cabinet for (and power supply, cables, etc).  There's a variation
of that particular subsystem that includes a controller.  For
base drives the prices are more reasonable and probably what
the people that set prices think enough customers are willing
to pay.

If Mr. Gray is still with us, I'm curious exactly what 1 GB
drive was quoted at $10,000?  As can be seen from my list,
there is a lot variation available.

--
Alan Rollow				alan@nabeth.cxo.dec.com