HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bmoon@eis.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: raised garden beds?
Date: 29 Dec 92 06:05:13 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

A thought: You might just mound up the soil, as in the French-intensive
and Chinese techniques. The mound can be about 4-5 feet wide. You get the
benefits of raised beds without the cost of materials. Actually, the
earthen beds may be better, since critters like snails and slugs may hide
in the space between your material and the bed.
Just my 2cents.
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Books, etc.
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:45:41 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Just got through browsing the Pinetree Garden Seed Catalog over lunch
[I was supposed to be editing my syllabi, but I'd sooner be thinking
gardens ;-) ]  and was pleased to notice that most of their seed prices
are holding fairly steady, in the $0.50-$0.60 range.

This is not meant as a testimonial, and I have no connection to the 
company except as a satisfied customer, but I've always found them to
be truthful about their merchandise, and the seed quality quite good.

However, they _also_ carry books and tools, and I noticed a few book bargains
I thought I'd mention on the net... they appeal to my tight-fisted soul! ;-)

How about the 1978 edition of _The Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening_ for
$16.98?  (The new edition is $30).  Or Reddell & Galyean's _Growing Fragrant
Plants_ for $15.98, marked down from $36 (I have a copy, and really like
it.) Or Frances Perry's _Scent in the Garden_ for $15 instead of $35 (I
like it, too)  Or _Building & Using Greenhouses_ from the Grolier Homeowner 
series for $2.98, down from $10, or the LL Bean Guide to Outdoor Photography 
(Lefty Kreh) for $6 instead of $17?

There are some newish books on the full-price list that look like they
might answer some of the questions that pop up here fairly often,
like  _Pesto Manifesto_ by Lorel Nazzaro (110 pages of pesto recipes?!?!?)
and Bill Adler's _Outwitting Critters: a surefire manual of confronting
devious animals and winning_, or Ric Staines' _Market Gardening: Growing
and selling produce_, which is supposed to have a major section on
marketing strategies, or Ralph Hils' _Market what you grow_, a 50 pp
workbook on the accounting needed in pricing commercial produce ($3
marked down from $10).

I'm particularly looking forward to two books:  Richard Goodman's _French
Dirt_, about a year a New Yorker with no gardening experience, spent
growing a garden the south of France-- mainly as a means of meeting people.
(Hm... I've noticed even the stiffist Brit unbends and even smiles when
talking to an enthusiastic Yank gardener ;-)  )

The other book I'm not waiting for: I ordered it full price (gasp, choke!)
Kathleen Yeoman's _The Able Gardener: Overcoming barriers of age and
physical limitations_.  She's an RN, writing about modifying garden
techniques and tools for those of us with heart problems, back problems,
arthritis, strokes, etc.  I'll let you know how I like it...

  Pinetree Garden Seeds, Box 300, New Gloucester, ME 04260
  (207) 926-3400
  
As I browse through other catalogs, I'll probably be bringing other
bits and pieces to the attention of the net...  Hope you'll
share, too!

Oh yes, got a nice note from Chiltern's the other day, with a 
packet of Desmodium gyrans that I'd been lusting for.  Their
catalog should be along any day now...  8-)

Kay


Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ehwd@sherman.pas.rochester.edu (Eric Howard)
Subject: Re: Early Start Ideas
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:20:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.124055.17201@kodak.kodak.com> bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant) writes:
>
>>I always get a kick out of this sort of thing.  Do you know that there is
>>a whole large country complete with farmers and market gardeners located
>>to the north of you? Also, many people are very successful in raising
>>veggies in U.S. areas like New England, Minnesota, and Montana, not to
>>mention Alaska!
>
>Land north of Rochester? And you can grow things there! There may still
>be hope for Rochester after all. 

Yeah, when I was going to school in Florida I met a guy who runs a nursery
north of Toronto. I was slightly amazed that he spent his winters in Fl, but
did a thriving nursery business north of here. I had a standing invite to 
go see it, but as it's been a few years, and I don't remember the guy's name
...

eric howard
u of rochester
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: Re: Seedlings under lights and legginess
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:24:54 GMT

>From: rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu

>Hi,
>        for the first time I'm thinking of starting some seeds indoors...
>probably tomatoes and peppers. I have tried the window sill rout in the 
>past but that has usually led to really leggy plants plus many of them 
>didn't survive the transplant (the peppers' stem wilted right where it 
>meets the ground and they plopped right over and died). Sooo, this
>year I am thinking of getting one of those kits with a light and a shelf
>for starting plants indoors. I got about 10 (!) gardening and seed catalogs 
>this week so I'm ready to start looking.
>        I wonder if you have any advice for me. Do these things work?
>Any particular brands better than others? Any special feature I should make 
>sure I get?   Thanks
>
>skip
>rlwilliams@gallau.bitnet
>
Lights work pretty well.  You should be aware that lights alone won't 
necessarily keep plants from getting leggy.  They should also have fairly 
cool temps (55-65F) during growth (but not during germination when the 
seeds need to be warmer (~75F?).

--Jill


--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: Re: Birds in the garden
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 14:44:42 GMT

>In article <1992Dec23.143234.25317@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes:
>>> [deleted]
>>>
>>>Be warned that while it's very gratifying to have jays take
>>>peanuts out of your hand, it won't be long before they're
>>>demanding peanuts morning, noon, and night.
>>
>>He is in Minnesota, if I remember correctly, so he'll have neither Steller 
>>nor Scrub jays, only Blue jays and possibly Grey jays.  The Greys are like 
>>Scrub jays; very bold.  Bluejays however are quite timid.
>
>Ha!  I loved your comment about BlueJays being "quite timid" and I
>have an ex-father-in-law that would heartily debate that issue with
>you :-)
>
>Amusing anecdote:  one spring weekend my father-in-law decided that
>the bluejays weren't going to next in the eaves of "his" garage so he
>climbed a ladder and with a broom swept their next away and the birds
>were having a fit, making all sorts of noises, etc.
>
>Well, they relocated at the end of the driveway in a HUGE tree and
>** every single day ** when my father-in-law would exit the back door
>of the house leading from the kitchen to the driveway/garage, those
>bluejays would dive bomb him!
>
>P.S.  They never bothered anyone else in the family; we were all
>        amused by their behavior but I can assure you that my
>        father-in-law didn't think they were charming at all. :-)

Behavior defending a nest (however misguided) is not the same as behavior 
at a feeder or in another situation.  Birds generally have on/off toggles 
for behavior.  It looks like the defend-the-nest toggle takes precedence 
over other behaviors.  An interesting observation.

I have still found that, IN GENERAL, blue jays are very timid.  They will 
not come to a feeder if they think they see you moving inside the house.  
They are almost impossible to tame to eat from your hand, etc. (Grey, 
Scrub and Steller's are quite different, it is sometimes hard to beat them 
off.)  And you may sometimes find a Blue jay who acts very bold.  In most 
cases this bird will have been an orphan raised by humans.

In many ways Blue Jays are like their cousins the American Crows who can 
seem incredibly bold at some times but are VERY, VERY ,VERY cautious and 
suspicious of anything unusual, but will go inside trash cans on garbage 
day and throw things out to find the goodies in the bottom.

--Jill

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    |
From: dvarney@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Doug Varney)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Houttuynia & clivia... assist
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:30:35 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory

Hi all,

	I need help with the mentioned plants...

	1. Houttuynia
	   a. can it be raised from roots or stem cuttings ?
	   b. how is seed started ?

	2. Clivia
	   a. what is the correct procedure for dividing ?


	Please e-mail and suggestions to dvarney@nrao.edu


	Thanks,
		Doug
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Potted vegetables, ideas needed.
Date: 26 Dec 92 06:34:37 GMT
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Andrew Miller (s5uagm@fnma.COM) wrote:
> 	Would you really trade an extra vine of red beefsteaks for a bowl of
> purple mashed potatoes? ( If so I _promise_ I'll try the potatoes. ) 

Well, I'm only one person growing tomatos and eating them, so one or two vines
is usually enough to keep me happy.  Actually, I'm not nearly so organized as
you are.  I just serendiptiously promonade through the local nursery and
find plants (veggies or herbs) that look like they might grow.  At least
that was my method the last year.  I've only just started on this gardening
thing, ya know, I'm something of a "sprout" myself.

But maybe some more planning is in order this year.  That's why I thought
I'd ask you experts.  This whole idea of *planning* what to plant is 
kind of exciting.

The reason I started my own "pot" garden in the first place is because I
never even liked tomatos until I finally had a vine-ripened, home grown
tomato.  And then I thought it was a wonderful thing, so I started to
grow my own.  I discovered that gardening is fun!  Also I started
to have a different attitude about bugs and spiders.  I used to be
slightly phobic about spiders, but now that I know what a crucial role
they play in my garden, I don't mind them so much.  Snails, moths and
ants though have become my mortal enemies.  For the first time in my
life, I view them as something other than yucky bugs.  We are in
direct and mortal competition for those tomatos I've grown to love
so well!
--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
From: lyle@qcc-hal.UUCP (Lyle Opseth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: help my christmas catus is dying
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:42:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: QCC Communications Corp, Saskatoon SK Canada

shirley@Software.Mitel.COM (Shirley Burns) writes:

>I have a problem with my Christmas catus. It seems to be dying from
>lack of water.  

>It started to bloom in late October and has gone downhill since. The branches
>went limp. So I watered and watered, but it didn't seem to help. So I
>stop watering thinking I may be drowning it. That didn't help either, 
>branches kept getting limper and boneier. So I moved it from it's nice
>sunny location to a less sunny location. There are still two little Christmas catuses in the sunny location and they are doing fine. Then I tried repotting 
>the catus with new soil (and adding some extra).

>Now the branches are really limp and boney, and have started to turn
>a shade of dark purple. I think the end is near. I have started some 
>cutting from the plant in case it does die. The cutting are doing fine and
>are filling out again. 

>This is a fairly old catus that my Dad had for years. It is about 15 inches
>is diameter in a six inch pot. 

>Do Christmas catuses just die after a certain age? Or have I managed
>to kill it?

I have several Christmas cacti and they all go limp every year, particularly
if they put on a good show.  Christmas cacti have week root systems and come
from the jungle so I suspect that the energy put into flowering and water 
lost through transpiration in my very dry home are the cause.  Mine usually
start to fill out again once blooming has finished.  I have never found
increased watering to help but misting and other ways of increasing humidity
seem to help.

Because Christmas cacti have weak root systems, they are very susceptible to
transplanting and when I have transplanted some during the height of summer
and disturbed the roots a fair bit to get all the old dirt out of the roots,
they again go limp.

Some of the older branches on mine also have gone purple.  Some went that
way last year but they bloomed just fine this year.  I'm not sure why they
do that though.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: Re: Birds in the garden
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:32:34 GMT

>Maybe BLUE and STELLERS jays, but scrub jays will come right
>into your living room, if you offer them the proper bribe,
>like a large peanut in the shell.  (You may suspect I have a
>large amount of experience with this.)  Once they get in the
>mood for hustling peanuts, which doesn't take long, scrub jays
>will come take peanuts out of your hand very readily, and can
>be enticed to porches, into houses, etc.  As a matter of fact,
>they are sometimes known to knock on the window and demand
>peanuts, if you're not forthcoming.  Stellers jays are more
>timid, but I've still gotten them onto the porch within a few
>feet of humans, before being chased off by the scrub jays, who
>resented them stealing *their* peanuts.
>
>Be warned that while it's very gratifying to have jays take
>peanuts out of your hand, it won't be long before they're
>demanding peanuts morning, noon, and night.

He is in Minnesota, if I remember correctly, so he'll have neither Steller 
nor Scrub jays, only Blue jays and possibly Grey jays.  The Greys are like 
Scrub jays; very bold.  Bluejays however are quite timid.

>Humans are SO trainable!

Ain't that the truth!

--Jill

P.S.  I think this thread should move over to the rec.????.birds group if 
it wants to go on longer.

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: Re: Preparing clay soil for planting
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:31:54 GMT

>Subject: Preparing Clay Soil for Planting
>
>    Construction on my new house will be complete in a couple of
>months.  My family has all kinds of grandiose plans for the
>backyard landscape.  The house is in the Denver, CO area and
>the soils are very heavy (a lot of clay).  To make matters
>worse, the builder removed and discarded the top
                                ^^^^^^^^^
>18" of soil during construction.

Wanna bet he sold it for a lot of money.  Topsoil is VALUABLE.  In many 
areas it is illegal to remove and sell all the topsoil.  You might want to 
find out what the law is in your area.  You might be able to get it back!  
Or you should make noises to your city/county/state that there should be 
such a law on the books.

>I want to plant bare root trees in the Fall of '93.  I want to
>do flowers and shrubs and vegetables and stuff in
>Spring of '94.  I have read a lot of books that talk
>about amending the soil with peat or manure.  They say
>to add in up to 50% of organic material and till it
>under anywhere from 6" to 24".  These books also make
>it sound like you do this in a weekend.  

Manure is LOTS better than peat.  Peat only adds organic matter, manure 
adds nutrients as well.  As for getting it into the soil, that depends on 
your energy level and power tools available.  For tilling, rent a 
rototiller; for spreading around, perhaps a mini-dozer... :')  You probably 
also want to plant a cover crop (special legume or grass) to keep the soil 
from blowing/washing away, and to add more nutrients.  After it gets a 
certain size you till it in, too.  I'm pretty sure cover crops is in the 
FAQ.  Kay?

>Well I would like to take advantage of the time I
>have to amend the soil properly.  I figure the
>extra time should allow me to 1) Do a better job,
>and/or 2) Do a cheaper job.  So, can anybody help
>with advice on preparing soil for planting
>a year down the road?  

Giving yourself a year is a great idea.
>
>Thanks,
>
You are welcome.
>
>Gary
>
--Jill

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP (Rick Harrison)
Subject: propagating bamboo
Reply-To: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:05:44 GMT

There is a small stand of very large bamboo plants on a vacant lot
in my neighborhood.  (I'm in the Orlando area.)  I'd like to get
a specimen of this species in my garden.  Short of renting a
steam-shovel, how can I do it?  They are growing in a very dense
clump and it doesn't look like it would be practical to dig up
part of the colony.
 
I grow reeds (Arundo donax) and sometimes use dried pieces of reed
to stake up tomato plants.  Sometimes the dead-looking pieces of
reed-stem will take root and come back to life.  I wonder if I
can do something like this with the bamboo.
 
Also, there are small side-shoots coming off the sides of the
big bamboo stems.  I wonder if it is possible to saw off one of
these side-shoots, dust it with rooting hormone and plant it?
Anyone have any experience with bamboo?
 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: guy@slustl.slu.edu (Guy Smith)
Subject: Re: Preparing clay soil for planting
Organization: Saint Louis University  Saint Louis, MO
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:46:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.213154.29463@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes:
>>Subject: Preparing Clay Soil for Planting
>
>Manure is LOTS better than peat.  Peat only adds organic matter, manure 
>adds nutrients as well.  As for getting it into the soil, that depends on 
>your energy level and power tools available.  For tilling, rent a 

If your clay is like mine, you're talking a *lot* of manure to
loosen it up adequately. What I use is a mixture of manure, peat and
lots of leaf mulch. The leaf mulch is available free for the taking
from my city. I haul it away by the truck load. Many cities are
mulching/composting leaves now. Check and see if any is available.
From: dsmith@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: BROCCOLI RAPE
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:26:48 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

I'm interested in growing Broccoli Rape or Rappini.  It's an Italian green,
it's wonderful and delicious and hard to find here in the midwest.  Does anyone
know where I can get seeds for this exotic plant.
Thanks
DSMITH@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Cats
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:51:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article <1992Dec19.203540.16966@witt.almanac.bc.ca>, rudy@witt.almanac.bc.ca (Rudy Witt) writes:
|> Hi!
|> 
|> I have a problem with my neighbours cats.  They seem to think that my yard
|> is a toilet.
|> 
|> Is there a humane way to discourage the cats from coming onto my property.
|> I live on half an acre.  Mostly grass.
|> 
|> thanks in advance
|> 
|> rudy
|> -- 
|> Rudy Witt                          Internet:  rudy@witt.almanac.bc.ca
|> Merit Technologies Ltd.               Voice:  604-245-4746
|> Ladysmith, BC.
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------


     If you like cats and are not allergic to them, you might 
want to get one or two of your own.  It sounds like your yard
is a territorial boundary and the cats are deliberately
leaving evidence that they are around.   A dog and a fence
would be even more effective.  However wheras a cat will
share your home like an independent roommate, dogs are much more
sociable and need attention from you every day and you should not
get a dog just to do the little chore of keeping cats away.   (I
have two cats and am thinking of getting a dog also; I do not
have any trouble with cat droppings in my yard)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ponder@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Carl Ponder)
Subject: Any Dichondra fans?
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:27:14 GMT

I've been neglecting my lawn this winter, and have noticed Dichondra
has been growing in. I actually like the stuff (I like clover, too),
but my book on Texas Gardening has it in the "weeds" section, and
tells how to kill it instead of cultivate it.

Do any of you have dichondra lawns? Are there any unusual problems with 
it growing too high, dying off in seasons, getting infested with bugs,
etc.? Does it make a good lawn in (Austin) Texas? Are there any good
sources on how to take care of it? The books I've looked at all focus
on grass, vines, and floral groundcovers.

Thanks in advance,

	-- Carl Ponder
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Burmuda Grass
Date: 21 Dec 92 07:12:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: -

In article <1992Dec18.190325.9512@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> To me, quack is _Agropyron repens_ (nasty stuff!)
> witchgrass is _Panicum capillare_ (nuisance).  We've got both here
> in the midwest.  
> Bermuda is _Cynodon dactylon_ and looks like crab grass.  

Now I'm getting confused.  I have Bermuda grass.  This summer it was
loaded with what I called crab grass.  The two didn't look anything
alike.  The Bermuda is very fine textured.  The crab grass sorta
reminded me of Saint Augustine (as least the blade shape), and
it is very invasive.

> I hated
> mowing my aunt's lawn when she had Bermuda.  Had to sort of lift and
> shove the lawnmower at the same time.  

Try a push mower with the blade setting of about 1-1/2 inches.  Keep
it regularly mowed and don't over-fertilize.  Too much fertilizer and
it gets impossible to push the mower through and it just rides over
the top without cutting.

We used to have a bermuda lawn when I was a kid in Kansas.  It seemed
like it was only green a couple months a year, so mowing was no big
chore.  In high school in Houston, we had Saint Augustine.  It used to
grow so fast during the summer monsoon season that we had to mow the
lawn twice a week sometimes.  Also the weight of the grass in the
grass catcher used to turn over the mower if you didn't empty it before
the bag was full.

Jim
From: woodley@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Judy Woodley)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:02:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Potted vegetables, ideas needed.
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.gardens

You haven't lived 'til you've served your guests purple mashed potatoes
grown from your own garden.
From: drosera@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Donald Burden)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: BONSAI
Date: 1 Jan 1993 04:16:29 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Dec31.190754.6898@odin.corp.sgi.com> tonyq@rodeo.corp.sgi.com (Tony Quilici) writes:
<Questions about Bonsai>

Try the newsgroup alt.bonsai.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens