From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:58:02 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1993Jan5.001418.4956@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:

>Actually, all I've claimed is that there are many men and women with an
>interest in science and other intellectual pursuits, 

No, that is not all you've claimed.  You also claimed that there 
are few men and women interested in exercise, fitness, and sports
-- you have a hard time just finding anyone, male or female, to 
work out with at the gym.

If there are few people interested in sports, and many interested
in science, there must be more interested in science than in sports.
So, where are they?


>but I can address your question anyway--there are a number of shops 
>around here that cater to people who do their own laboratory work at 
>home, 

A number?  What number?  Let's quantify this. 

And how many sporting-goods stores and sports departments are there
in the same area?  (This is a more reasonable comparison than health
clubs.)


>There are also plenty of mail-order companies that specialize in 
>this market.

Plenty?  How many is "plenty?"  How does that compare to the number
of mail-order companies selling fitness equipment?  More importantly,
how do their sales compare?


However, you still haven't answered my question.  How many laboratories
do you find selling memberships to the general public, the way health
clubs do? 
 
>A fully-stocked gym/health club is something that most people don't have
>the space, money, or time to maintain in their own homes; 

Most people don't have the space, money, or time to maintain things
like electron microscopes in their home, either.  If more people
are interesting in using microscopes than Nautilus machines, why
hasn't anyone tapped this market?  Given your own stated entrepreneurial
talents, why haven't you?



>having a room full of people around while you experiment is likely to 
>be distracting rather than helpful.  

I can't buy that, either.  Professional scientific laboratories 
have hundreds of people in the building at any one time, and they 
seem to cope. 

>Thus, even if far more people were amateur scientists than fitness
>enthusiasts, you still wouldn't expect to see a bunch of laboratories
>selling memberships.  

Even if?  So, you aren't sure now?

>(To say nothing of the liability insurance involved, which would 
>probably make the memberships more expensive than assembling your 
>own lab.)  

Since fitness injuries far outnumber lab accidents, I don't see why
a science club should pay more for liability insurance than a health
club.

>A better analogy would be museums, planetariums (planetaria?), and 
>the like, 

Okay, then, let's consider museums.  The last time I visited the
Science Place in Dallas, the largest exhibit (by far, taking up
one entire building) was "the science of sports."
 
>If you poke through a well-stocked newsstand, you'll probably find more
>science publications than you will find fitness publications

It depends on the newstand, I suppose.  But Writer's Market lists
far more sports and exercise publications.  You should also look
at how widely circulated those publications are.  You'll find
"Muscle and Fitness" on every newstand -- even 7-11.  Scientific
American will only be on the larger stands. 


>Remember, for your purposes, it's not necessary that there be a majority
>of people more interested in intellectual than physical pursuits (not,
>however, that these are in any respect mutually exclusive), but only
>that there be a reasonable number and some way of locating them.
>Indeed, if she happens to be the right one for you, just one is enough.

But for *your* purpose -- proving your claim about more amateur
scientists than amateur athletes -- one is certainly not enough.

 
>Alas, I've forgotten the prices, but they usually advertise Tasco,
>Jason, Bushnell (and probably others) for their microscopes and
>telescopes--not exactly high-end, 

To say the least.  Those are children's toys, not something any
(informed) adult would purchase for himself.

>but try to find a high-end piece of anything else, including exercise 
>equipment, at a K-Mart.  

I have no trouble spotting entire aisles of baseball, basketball,
football, softball, hockey, and soccer equipment, jogging suits,
tenis rackets, rowing machines, etc.  If you're going to say a
$400 telescope is high-end but a $400 rowing machine isn't, perhaps
you should explain why people are willing to spend so much more on
a rowing machine (that doesn't even go anywhere) than on a telescope.


>SF cons, at least around here, usually include at least a few scientific
>talks or panel discussions; the ones I've been to have been
>well-attended and had a reasonable gender balance.

If that's true, Denver's probably the only place in the United States
where it is.  I have yet to attend an SF conference that was less than
75% (and usually closer to 90%) male.

Note, also, that there are perhaps two dozen fulltime science-fiction
writers in the entire United States.  How many sports writers are there?
How many newspapers have a page, much less a section, devoted to science?