From: johnnyl@microsoft.com (Johnny Lee)
Subject: Re: program manager lacks!
Date: 30 Aug 92 01:20:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: world,local

In article <1992Aug29.040842.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.082048.13330@msc.cornell.edu>, maynard@groo.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes:
>>>> On the other side of the fence on the Mac, the file *is* the application
>>>>or data double-click and run.h
>>>
>>>Indeed.  Too bad Macs are proprietary and overpriced.
>> 
>> You mean like how I can ftp to ftp.apple.com to pick up latest version of
>> the
>> system software, but MS has no comparable site- I have to plunk down my
>> $89
>> or so for each upgrade.
>
>Eh, what?  Assuming that what you said is the truth, I feel bad for 
>the 99% of mac users unlucky enough not to even know what an ftp site is.
>They have to pay through the nose for upgrades just like the rest of us.

You only have to pay if you want the documentation. For as long
as I can remember, one has always been able to update to the latest
System Software by taking disks in to your local Mac dealer
and have them put the software on it. That's if the latest
System software will run on your Mac, Mac 128 & 512 owners are out of
luck - yes, there are still some out there.

Of course, when System 7 came out, the local (Toronto) dealers were
really pushing the fact that you could only get the upgrade
by buying the CDN $100 package. This may have been only ignorance
by those particular dealers (but then ignorance and Mac dealers
go hand in hand from my experiences - no slander against
Mac dealers who know their stuff - just that I haven't met any).

>
>Besides, MS has a BBS where you can download tips and drivers for the
>price of a long-distance phone call.  One of the MS employees could tell
>you what their plans are for ftp access (if they have any).

I've been told that you can download system software from
local BBSes and also get it from user groups for nominal cost.
I've never been crazy about BBSes so I can't say for sure.
Apple mainly sells hardware, MS mainly sells software - there's
a difference.

I couldn't tell you what MS' plans are for ftp access... ;-)

>
>So I don't see any bragging points in what you said above.

I do. But for how long will this policy last (see below)...

>
>> Oh- you mean this is the IBM-PC version of
>> proprietary
>> which is defined in terms of hardware (which does nothing for you) rather
>> than software (which is what mostly defines the machine.)
>
>Dude, hardware paves the way for software.  Thanks to IBM open-system
>architecture, the door has been long since open to a free market of price
>competition, hardware advances (386 and 486), and a software explosion
>that Mac bigots can't even comprehend.

That fact is not lost on Apple these days with the latest
round of price cuts started by Compaq.
Apple has started to charge for various enhancements to
the system software rather than bundle them with
the system software for free. It's going to get more
hectic in the hardware market as the commodity factor
of hardware goes up and Windows momentum gets bigger.
They've also lowered prices as well as introducing (soon)
more machines with features like CDROM drives
built-in.

[Stuff deleted]

J

Just my personal views, not MS'.