From: marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young)
Subject: Re: What about the Canadians?
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 03:06:07 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler) writes:
>In article <=95-58+@engin.umich.edu> marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young) writes:
>>mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler) writes:
>>>Besides, last time I was in Calgary, I looked at a book in the "Canadianna"
>>>section of a bookstore that discussed geography after Quebec separation. 
>>>The author suggested that Montreal itself might be carved up into sectors
>>>each governed by Ottawa or by Quebec City. Perhaps his proposed map had
>>>the Forum in the Ottawa sector!
>>>
>>Are you sure it wasn't in the "Science Fiction and Fantasy" section (or
>>maybe the "War Stories" section)?
>
>No, I specifically went into the book store seeking stuff on topics
>that I can't get in the U.S., i.e.  hockey and Canadianna.  I can buy

Ain't that the truth!  Around Xmas last year I was looking for a copy of
the NHL 75th anniversary book, and the local book store had eight shelves
each on baseball and football (understandable), four on basketball, two 
shelves each on hunting and fishing (yes, separate categories), three 
shelves on _chess_, and only three _books_ on hockey.  And this is
_Michigan_.

>my Sci-Fi books for much less money in the U.S. and I'm not interested
>in War Stories (Anyway how do Sci-Fi or War Stories relate to Quebec
>separation?). As far as Fantasy, it is you who are living in one if you
>think that Quebec's current borders are going to remain intact after
>separation. For one thing, the Quebec/Labradour border is to this day
>in dispute.
>
>Why don't you go into a Canadian bookstore (you are closer to the border than
>I am) if you don't believe me.
>
Well, I'll be in Canada on the weekend of the 24th, maybe I'll pop into
a bookstore and see what's there.  In the meantime, maybe you can help
me.

How do you envisage the changes in Quebec's borders coming about?

While Quebec is a part of Canada, its borders are guaranteed by the
Constitution.  They can only be changed with the agreement of both the
Quebec and Federal governments (plus any other provinces that might be
involved).  Thus the Labrador boundary can only be changed with the
consent of Newfoundland (unlikely).  Montreal can only be partitioned
with the consent of Quebec (again unlikely).

After Quebec separates, it is an independent country.  Its borders can
be changed only with its consent -- or by war (hence the ref. to "War
Stories").  Consent is unlikely, and war you implicitly rule out by
your objection to "War Stories" as appropriate.

So, all that's left is during the separation process.  Now there is no
provision in the Constitution for any province separating, so we are
on unmapped territory there.  However, the experiences of other
countries is very salient.  Consider the Crimea.  That was traditionally
a part of Russia, but the Soviet government, in a fit of generosity,
transferred it to the Ukraine.  When the Ukraine and Russia went their
separate ways, there was a lot of noise in Russia about getting that
territory back.  But the Ukrainians were not too keen on returning it,
and the Russians eventually backed down.  Consider Yugoslavia.  The
Serbians say that a lot of the territory that is officially part of
Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina is actually Serb territory that they
let those other provinces have as a gesture of good faith during the
Yugoslav years.  Now that Croatia and Bosnia have separated, they
want those lands back.  Many of the people that live in those lands
are ethnic Serbs, and they want to be part of Serbia.  Still, the
international community does not support the Serbian claims.  The
borders from before separation are supported by the UN and all other
international organizations.

How is Canada/Quebec significantly different from these cases?  How
will we get the Quebecois and/or the world community to back our
claims to (what is now) Quebec territory?

>>Was it perhaps co-authored by Slobodan Milosovic?
>
>Who?
>
Did I screw up the name so bad, or are you just totally out of it?
(Hint:  consider Yugoslavia.)

...mark young
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada