From: robinson@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: New Subscriber and a look on hunting
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:12:36 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Apr13.075448.19268@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
> In article <1992Apr10.100844.4932@ac.dal.ca> robinson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Apr7.113123.9177@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>> You  call  a  few  of  your friends disapearing due to an invasion of large
>>> creatures one month in twelve a temporary disturbance???????
>>
>>Yup.  It's temporary alright.  It is predictable only because *we* can 
>>measure time.
>>
> Are you now saying that other animals cannot?

Well, I've not seen nor heard of animals wearing watches which they created 
themselves, nor have I heard of them or seen them using calendars, from 
which I can only surmise that they do not measure time in a quantitative 
way.  Opening day of the hunting season is ample proof that they are not 
planning ahead.

> 
>>> Are  you  so  stupid  or  callous that you wouldn't alter your lifestyle to
>>> try and prevent the creatures taking you or your friends in that one month?
>>
>>It's not about what I would do.  History shows us that people often ignore 
>>a clear and present danger.  Pompey is proof of that.  As is smoking and 
>>other activities.
>>
> Who is Pompey?

Make that Pompeii.  Pompey was a roman general who lived from 106-48 BC and 
was involved in a civil war with one Julius Ceasar.

Pompeii was an ancient city in southern Italy on the Bay of Naples which 
was destroyed by the eruption of mount Vesuvius in 79 AD.  Despite this 
eruption and the total anhiliation of this city, as well as others in the 
area, people continued to live on the slopes of Vesuvius, thereby 
demonstrating the above (i.e. that people often ignore a clear and present 
danger).

> 
>>> Would you wait until the month came around or would you plan ahead?
>>
>>Being human I would plan ahead.
> 
> Thank you for agreeing that the disruption would not be temporary.

What I would do is not indicitive of what the population as a whole would 
do.  It is quite likely that a large segment of the population would 
pretend that it wasn't really going to happen again and ignore the 
possibility.  Thus, at least initially, the disruption *would* be 
temporary.

> 
>>It doesn't appear that deer do plan 
>>ahead, from which one can deduce that they do not measure time the same way 
>>we do (which should be obvious).   Nonetheless they recognize the invasion 
>>when it happens.
>>
> What would you suggest the dear do, start a petition?

Well, if they were able to quantitatively measure time and were able to 
plan ahead, I would expect them to vanish from their usual haunts a couple 
days before the season opened.  They don't.

> 
>>> Temporary  disruption,  what  crap.  Maybe  you would like to withdraw your
>>> analogy, this anthropomorphism is not helping you much.
>>
>>On the contrary.
>>
> On the contrary what? You still haven;t shown that your example would not
> cause permanent disruption.

Actually, I think I've substantiated it just fine.  You're welcome to 
disagree.

> 
>>-- 
>>John Robinson                  Only criminals, tyrants, and cowards have
>>robinson@ac.dal.ca                 reason to fear the armed, honest citizen.
>>DOD #0069
> 
> The signature of a madman.
> 

The voice of a slave unaccustomed to the heady fumes of freedom.

> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael Traub
> BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
-- 
John Robinson                  Only criminals, tyrants, and cowards have
robinson@ac.dal.ca                 reason to fear the armed, honest citizen.
DOD #0069