From: verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Happy end for the ESTONIAN question (Was: Est
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:22:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec15.182203.18540
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv


Please note that I deleted scs from the subject line.

In article <1992Dec15.114956.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>In article <12049@kesson.ed.ac.uk>, alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) 
>writes:

>> As I understand the game there are two well defined camps here.  One
>> is democratic and the other nationalist.

>I can't see this kind of demarcation line. But: de gustibus non
>disputandum: if you want to call me anti-democratic nationalist, you are
>free to do so. But do not be surprised when somebody finds it's 
>difficult to understand your opinions.

	I have to disagree with honourable Tapani: he never
	lived in xCommunist countries to see this distinction. For
	me and Alexei it is clear. The situaion in any such country
	(be it Armenia, Tadjikistan, Croatia, Serbia or Ukraine,
	to say nothing about Russia and Baltics) is exactly
	as Alexei described. You have to live there to
	feel it.

	[ deletions ]



>(5) The goal of democratic politics in Estonia should be the following:
>    (a) Every individual should receive
>        a citizenship of the state that he/she wishes.
>    (b) This procedure should be made as smooth as possible.


	This is a very important point I agrree with Tapani on.
	At least, for elderly and handicapped persons there
	should not be citizenship requirements. Estonian politicians,
	pursuing their nationalistic views, appear to be even
	less humane than Russian "pamyat'"-like nationalists.

>(6) Still, it is up to Estonians to decide, which condititions
>    they set for those that want to be naturalized (This is accepted
>    by the Russian government). The Estonians seem to want to protect
>    the culture of their own - and therefore they have legally set
>    up the language requirement.

	Surely it is legal, but is it humane? That non-citizens
	will be more easily discriminated by militant nationalists
	(like in Germany) there is no doubt. The question is,
	do Estonian powers share their goals with militant
	nationalists? I believe so, but I have no factual
	evidence. If so, by restricting citizenship they free
	their hands to discriminate peole who are not ethnically
	clean; if not, they unconsciously free the hands of
	neo-Nazi (who will quite possibly devour them after
	they will feel free to do it). What happens is the
	nationalistic revolution, the same that takes place
	in Georgia, Serbia, Chechnya, Croatia etc, but on 
	the smaller scale. Hope it will never get the 
	Georgian's range.


>If Estonia is left alone (read: The Chauvinist Russia - which is still
>in opposition - does not intrude the Estonian politics) and
>the civil war is not imported in Estonia, the Estonian question will
>be solved in two-three years and Estonia would have, say, a population,
>where 60 % are Estonian speaking Estonian citizens, 20% are Russian
>speaking Estonian citizens and 20% citizens of Russia and other CIS
>states (of free decision). Every one could vote in the democratic
>parliamentary elections of their countries and every one could
>vote in Estonian local elections.

	I am not sure so. It is true that if Yugoslavia
	was left without intervention from Council of
	Europe (whom you tend to value so high), Germany
	who tried to recognize its dissolution even before
	CoE (and long before the dissolution was finished),
	there could be less mutual violence there. 
	Surely also if Croatian facsistic diaspora was staying
	aside there were almost none. The potential
	for a violence always was there, regardless
	of what outsiders do.

	The same goes for Baltics (and Russia too). 
	Estonians were never as rabidly nationalistic as 
	their diaspora. If there was a force to keep 
	emigres out of the country the nationalism
	would never gain momentum. If CoE would not encourage
	nationalists in everything they are doing,
	the situation could be relatively stable.
	Now, as there are lots of outsiders (including
	Russian "patriots") to keep their noses in
	what happens in Estonia the situation is 
	highly unstable. Actually, Russians who
	live in Estonia will not necessarily suffer
	from nationalism (as Chechen Russians and
	and Georgian Russians do not muchly suffer),
	but the nationalism itself is always 
	abominable.

	Partially I tend to agree that if there
	were no intrusion from outside, the situation
	were never dangerous. Nevertheless, I tend
	to evaluate the efforts of CoE and diaspora
	as roughly equivalent to ones from
	Russian nationalists.

	Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe