HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barich@bach.udel.edu (Dewey H Barich)
Subject: Re: on the VPs
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:04:37 GMT

In article <009622CB.BA452EC0@vms.csd.mu.edu> 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>> 
>>Certainly we expect this ("cue cards") from the pros.  I think Gore and
>>Clinton are MUCH better at doing it, which I take as a negative.  If I
>>can TELL that you are giving me a prepared statement, how am I to know
>>if what you are saying is what you really believe.  Again, I cite
>
>
>Why are you equating being prepared to defend your position with insincerity?

I'm not.  I'm equating it with SLICKness.

>Of course Gore was prepared to answer the questions--he's been asked them
>a hundred times.  Do you seriously want a candidate who thinks up his stand
>on positions (or pretends to) three weeks before the election?  Given your
>viewpoint I assume you think I don't believe what I'm saying because I used
>a text editor to "prepare" my response rather than burden you with my typos and
>spontaneous starts and stops.

Actually, I would like to see a three week election season.  In fact,
for the most part, I'd like to see a written statement of what the
candidates claim they will do if elected, and that's that.  It sure
would remove all the mud slinging, and, it would help my opinion of
Clinton.  He wouldn't have had all that time to switch sides on issues.

My viewpoint is that Clinton and Gore appear to me (thus, this *is* an
opinion) to have very well-constructed answers to questions, but only so
that they will say what the listener wants to hear.  I prefer
spontaneous, yet *consistent*  (ie, Perot) answers.  Unlike Clinton's
response in the first debate where he hung there for 10 seconds to
remember the "Clinton Response."

No, I do believe what you say because you said it as soon as it came to
mind, though it certainly took you a little while to key in.  You did
not have this response planned for when I (or anyone) made the
statements I made.  We've seen Clinton give conflicting answers to
several questions/issues, and it leads me to not trust anything he says.
The same could be said for Bush (though perhaps not to the same extent,
as Bush has admitted mistakes - no one is perfect).

Dewey

Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: walker@superman.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: Is Perot serious?
Reply-To: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:57:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.160723.1203@kodak.kodak.com>, bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant) writes:
|> >|> Unfortunately for Adm. Stockdale, being in the national spotlight 
|> >|> comes with the job of being vice-president. This is no time for on
|> >|> the job training. I expect my leaders to come prepared for the job.
|> >|> By the way, I believe that Perot is prepared for the job, but not his 
|> >|> vice-presidential choice.
|> >|> 
|> >
|> >Again I will ask how much of the VP's job is debate?  How much of a
|> >Presidents job is debate?  None except in an election year.
|> >
|> 
|> Speaking ability is used for many other tasks than debate. The vice-
|> president will be called on to articulate the presidents position to
|> both small and large groups of people. This is a necessary skill of
|> a leader to shape public opinion. Public opinion is going to be Perot's
|> biggest weapon up on capital hill. Without the public clamoring for
|> change to the other 99.99% of the polititions there, nothing will be
|> accomplished.
|> 

Yes but virtually all of this is from prepared startments given in very
controlled environments.  Nothing like the barrage that was going on.

|> >I think
|> >that if it came down to a crisis situation where the VP has had to take
|> >the reigns of state and make some immediate critical decisions I can not
|> >see Dan Quayle or Al Gore being any more qualified.  In fact I think
|> >they are significantly less qualified.
|> 
|> I agree with you on this. I am not questioning Adm. Stockdales decision 
|> making capacity, which I agree (from what little I know of the man) is
|> as good as if not better than the other two vice-presidential contenders.
|> 
|> 

Oh I think certainly much better.

Doug
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: walker@superman.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker)
Subject: Debate
Followup-To: alt.politics.perot
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:40:59 GMT

Well the first of the three presidential debates is now over.  I really think
Perot hit a home run here.  Whike the other two candidates filled the airwaves 
with meaningless retoric, he was able to answer the questions in a meaningful
and thoughtful way.

There is one thing that I was really suprised at however, the members of the 
panel of questioners, all members of the media establishment, handled 
themselves admirably.

For this I wish to truly thank them.

I cannot wait for the next 30 minute Perot spot.  He had some strong things to
say tonight about how to fix the problems which he addressed in the first 30
minute spot.  

While I do not discount Perot's chances of winning in November, I must agree
with one of the media personnel who was interviewed on CNN after the debate
who stated that if Perot had not given signals in July that he would not 
run, that this would be a two man race between Clinton and Perot, with George 
Bush as an also ran.

During Larry King Live after the debate his guests were the head of the 
Democratic Party (Ron Brown), the head of the Republican Party (?), and Orson 
Swindel.  I don't remember what the issue was but Ron Brown and the Republican
representative started talking at the same time, one interrupting the other 
and neither of them really listening to what the other had to say, and I
sure couldn't tell what either of them were saying.  When Orson Swindel
finally got to talk he stated that the display he had just witnessed was one
of the main reasons that Perot might win in November.  Of course, while he was
saying this both of the others (Dem & Rep) started in again.  Won't they ever
learn.

Once again I wish to thank the media for performing what I truly thought was
a really professional performance.  They do deserve some credit in this 
instance.

Doug
From: mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: I SUPPORT PEROT, but HE DOESN'T GO FAR ENUF, _NO ONE DOES_
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:18:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <BvrDnr.8Aq@csn.org>, kenw@teal.csn.org (Ken Waletzki) writes:
> 

> 
>       Over 500 people were killed in the months of July and August in the
>       streets of L.A. for gang violence.  I think this kind of human
>       tragedy is MORE important to our survival than what goes on elseware
>       in the world.  We need to clean up our own house, before we can
>       tell someone else how to take care of their business.
> 

I agree that this is a serious problem.  Just what is our favorite Texas
billionaire Ross Perot going to do about the racial/social problems we have
in this country?  All I hear is a plan about the budget deficit.  

> WE NEED A REVOLUTION IN THIS COUNTRY.

And Perot is for real revolution?  Come on!
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: UWSA Phone Numbers
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:00:16 GMT

That's a joke, right?  A parody?  Please, say it ain't so...

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: myounce@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Younce)
Subject: Re: REQUEST:  Perot's Plan
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:59:27 GMT

In article <Bw4DFA.I16@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> myounce@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Younce) writes:
>Could someone please repost the four-part article that contains Perot's plan
>for the nation?

Thanks for all of your responses.  My mailbox is full!

Mike
-- 
Mike Younce                    |      *  DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handey  *
myounce@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   | "Better not take a dog on the Space Shuttle,
Purdue University              |  because if he sticks his head out when you're
"Wait 'til basketball season!" |  coming home, his face might burn up."
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: korman@seas.gwu.edu (John Korman)
Subject: Re: life-long republican
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:59:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.124622.7316@iscsvax.uni.edu> fay@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>If the reason to vote for Perot is because he represents change, then there is
>an even better reason not to vote for him.  
>
>GHWBush is clearly not the one to change things.  Yet, every vote that is not
>cast for Clinton is helping Bush and Quayle to stay in office for four more
>years.
>
>Besides, how much different will it be to exchange one life-long republican for
>another?
>

Bill Promise, ... oops, I meant Bill Clinton represents change. Yeah, right!

Wasn't  it a Hall & Oates song  in the early eighties; 'Promises, promises,
all of your promises ....'  That should have been the Clinton/Gore campaign 
song.

;->


Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: The truth about that crazy aunt in the attic
Reply-To: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:23:22 GMT

In article <1687BACFD.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com>, JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
|> He'll get killed in the debates
|> where he will actually have to ANSWER questions instead of denying their
|> relevance.
|> 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Kind of hate to resort to something so trite but Ross get killed in the
debate.  I don't think so. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Ross has been willing to answer any question which does have relavence
to his ideas about running the country.  In fact he has been much more
forthcoming than either of the other two politicians.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

|> his racist, braindead running mate, who should
|> make Quayle look like a genius.


Do you have any FACTS to support this statement?  I rather doubt it.  I
don't think Ross would even associate with anyone who was a racist and
stated that if you were a racist he did not even want your vote.

I challenge Bush or Clinton to make this same statement.

Doug
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: youngm@marble.Colorado.EDU (Matthew Young)
Subject: Bummer (%Perot vote)
Originator: youngm@marble
Reply-To: youngm@marble.Colorado.EDU (Matthew Young)
Organization: Center for Study of Earth from Space, U of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:52:03 GMT


Someone suggested that if Perot can manage to get 30% of the vote before the
election, the likely high turnout of Perot-voters would earn
perhaps 60% of the popular vote.  I assume that you mean that
Perot voters are twice as likely to vote as DemoPublican voters are.
If this is so, that is, if committed DemoPublican voter turn out 
is half of committed Perot voter turn out and Perot has 30% of the vote before
the election, he will still have only 46% of the actual vote:

	p0 + b = t0
	p0     = 0.3*t0
	b      = 0.7*t0 



        p1 + b = t1
	p1     = 2*p0
 	
	=>

	t1     = 1.3*t0
    
        => 

	p1/t1  = 46.2%


			--where p0, p1 are pre, election-day Perot votes
				b is the Bozo (DemoPublican) vote
			  	t0, t1 is the pre, election-day total vote


Bummer.

mY


From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: All deficits are not created equal.
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:25:37 GMT

>Good question!  I'm suprised this isn't asked more often.  About 25% of the
>debt is owed to foreign investors, Govts of Germany, Japan, and individuals
>such as the Emir of Kuwait, etc..
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The US owes money to Kuwait?!?!? Stop the bus, I want to get off!

-Mike
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: John Perry (Senate candidate, PA)
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:53:22 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Does anyone here know know anything about John Perry, the libertarian
candidate running against Specter and Yeakel for a Senate seat?  All
I've heard so far is that he's running an anti-abortion campaign.  This
is a plank I just can't agree with, and which strikes me as somewhat
un-Libertarian.  (No flames, please.  That's an impression, and I don't
want to start the abortion argument.)

So my question is: what are his other major planks, and in what areas
does he deviate from the libertarian platform?  I'd like to be able
to vote for a libertarian senator, but I sure can't do it based on what
I've seen so far.

Thanks for your help.

Monica
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:08:26 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

khj@cray.com (Ken Jopp) writes:
> The libertarian position on abortion has to be pro-choice.
> A fetus is physically imposing itself on its "host."
> She should be under no obligation to indulge the imposition.
> 
> Consider:  If my son needs a kidney transplant to live, and I 
> am the only available donor, should I be forced by law to give 
> the kidney?

Consider: If my son needs food to live, and I can only provide that
through working, should I be forced by law to feed him?

if you're going to have kids then be responsible for them. if
you don't want children and the responsibility they entail then for 
chrissakes use a condom or simply stop fucking around.

to paraphrase Marrou on Larry King Live "People have to take
responsibility for their actions. That's what being an adult
means."

jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`  "I'd explain it to you, but your head would blow up." - S. Wright  `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Libertarian Inconsistency (Was: Re: Please let Marrou debate! -- and CNN's Crossfire)
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:23:51 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

amc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) writes:
> msavasti@telesciences.com (Michael Savastio) writes:
> >
> > By the way, do L/libertarians really believe this, or are you just
> > speaking for yourself?
> 
> I am too new to L/libertarianism to say whether I am an adherent, 
> but I agree that no one has a right to life simply because everyone 
> must die.

as i posted in another article, "right to life" does not imply that
everyone has the right to live forever. it is more of a "right
to not have your life cut short" than an absolute "right to life."

> I disagree that without a right to life I may as well not have any
> rights.  On the contrary, without the right to autonomy I may as 
> well not have any life.

children do not have a right ot autonomy. does this mean we can
kill them out of hand? no. they may not be autonomous yet, but
they will be eventually, and have a right not to be killed.

> Note, by the way, that people who leave wills excercise their right 
> to autonomy even after they have lost their lives.

well, whether we believe in ghosts or not is another matter all
together... :^)

jason "boo!" steiner

--
me
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: jbn@photon.com (Joe Naiman)
Subject: AMA article on Bush and Marrou
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:08:41 GMT


The American Motorcyclist Association sent questionnaires to Bush,
Clinton, and Marrou on motorcycling issues.  Clinton acknowledged
the survey but noted that time constraints prevented him from
answering.  Thus the comments of George Bush and Andre Marrou were
those which appeared in the most recent issue ofAmerican Motorcyclist.

Not only did Marrou get equal coverage, but American Motorcyclist
blew up Bush's statement favoring seat belt and helmet laws.

If you'd like to write a letter to American Motorcyclist thanking
them for their inclusion of Andre Marrou, the address is Post Entry,
c/o American Motorcyclist, P.O. Box 6114, Westerville, OH 43081-6114.


Joe Naiman

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley)
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:42:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.222718.10537@uoft02.utoledo.edu> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.uto
ledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:

> [stuff deleted]  ...if a fetus isn't
>human then it's no longer an issue.
>
>so: is it or isn't it? and if so/not, why?

*Now* we're getting somewhere.  But the question of whether a fetus is human or
not requires us to find a defining characteristic for 'human'.  Actually, I 
might even agree with you that a fetus is 'human' in the sense that it belongs 
to homo sapiens.  "Human" can refer to a lot of things, most of which don't 
really concern this debate.  So let me ask a different question:

What characteristic of human beings gives them inalienable rights?

Once we have an answer to that, then we can talk about whether an unborn child
possesses that characteristic.

Steve Conley
sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"Yes, officer.  Whatever you say, officer.  Fries with that, officer?"
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Would someone please post a summary of Marrou's positions?
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:19:35 GMT

I know nothing at all about Marrou nor the Libertarian party -- I've
never even heard them mentioned on the news!  Would someone please
post a summary of the Libertarian platform, to satisfy my curiosity?

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
 _/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
  _/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
        "Sex is DEATH!"      Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
         -- Barbara Bush                                         -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: new "U." poll (was Re: "U." poll)
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:05:13 EST
Distribution: usa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer) writes:
> U. is taking another call-in poll for president now.
> Call them at 1-800-6UVIEWS. You get to leave a message
> with your name, year, and college and who you will vote
> for. You can also leave a comment. Ask them to run an
> editorial from a College Libertarian as they have
> already given space to the D's and R's. Marrou got 10%
> in their last poll.

i gave 'em a call & told them i'd be voting Libertarian. 
it will be interesting to see if they do serious coverage
of Marrou. last ish they had a letter to the editor mention
the Libertarian party, and a footnote on their poll indicating
the number of Libertarian responses.

jason "wait 'n see" steiner

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`        Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty        `,` 
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: larry@labrador.fishkill.ibm.com (Larry Pieniazek)
Subject: Re: Marrou on Larry King
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 12:24:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: lar@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: You must be joking!
Keywords: Marrou, Libertarian, publicity, polls

In article <1992Oct13.011044.10488@uoft02.utoledo.edu>,
jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:

[ excellent post summarising Andre's appearance]

> This is the second time I've seen Marrou speak, and I have this
> feeling that were he allowed to debate he would win handily. The 
> man's skill at using time and addressing issues is refreshing when 
> compared to the rhetoric and innuendo we get from the other 3.

This paragraph got me thinking. How much does it cost to do a poll?
What if we paid Gallup to do a poll the way we think it should be done
and then released the results to the media?

We've been complaining that the polls are not fair. But the polls are
paid for by organisations, and we can complain, yes, but they have a
right to do biased polls if they want to. Let's put our money where our
mouth is. Calling 1500 people can't cost all THAT much.

-Lar

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',','
`,` Democrat:    Give us your money. _We'll_ solve your problems. `,`
`,` Republican:  Give us your money. We'll ignore your problems.  `,`
`,` Libertarian: Keep your money. Solve your own problems.        `,`
',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',','
(I stole this .sig from jason, with his permission. Thanks!)

Marrou/Lord in '92

#include <std_disclaim.h>
From: steve-b@access.digex.com (Steve Brinich)
Subject: Re: "U." poll
Keywords: poll, college, students, marrou
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:06:24 GMT

  >  Actually, if you ever listen to Howard Stern, you would hear him promote
  >a lot of Libertarian philosophy....

  What I want to know is: Does Howard Stern agree with the Libertarian Party's
position that the FCC should be abolished?  <g>

Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: Libertarians & Abortion (was: Please let Marrou debate!)
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:08:29 GMT

>>auto accidents aren't totally voluntary either, but if i get in
>>an accident i am -still- held responsible for the damages.
>>nobody gives a flying freak if i intended to wreak that other
>>guy's car or not. and if i happened to kill the other driver
>>i could be held liable for vehicular manslaughter. "But golly,
>>judge, I was just doing 200 klicks per for the fun of it, and
>>I -was- wearing a seatbelt!"
>
>Absolutely right, which is why both partners (or all participants,
>depending on your lifestyle) should be financially responsible for
>the cost of an abortion or carrying the pregnancy to term, whichever
>the mother chooses.  Nobody's trying to eliminate responsibility here,
>so quit pretending that we are.
>
>Steve Conley
>sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>"Chastity is not an option."

People have used money to buy your way out of responsibility for years. So
I guess you would say that if you can afford to bribe the judge so that
you are not convicted of a crime then you have taken the responsibility
for it. Note I am not saying that sex is a crime.

Just because you can pay to get out of something _does not_ mean that
you have taken responsibility for it.

Let's say I had a handicapped brother that required my care. So I get
tired of feeding him every meal. Well lets see I have $5000. I will hire
a hit man to waste him. Presto I have displatched my responsibility. To
use the current vernacular...NOT!

				mike
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Subject: Lib's in Nashville
Organization: Vanderbilt University 
Distribution: USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:48:01 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

Does anyone have a phone # for Marrou's Nashville campaign folks?  Here at
Vandy on Thursday (15 October) they're having a "debate" among local Bush, 
Clinton, and Perot campaign folks, and I'd like to try to get a Marrou
person in as well.


Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Bitnet: lipscoja@vuctrvax)