HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kasprj@jec310.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:22:42 GMT

In article <urf.724794299@sw2001>, urf@icl.se (Urban F) writes:
|> >Arthur C. Clarke would have been on
|> >the list until _2061_ and those awful collaborations started appearing. 
|> 
|> I agree with you on _2061_, and I think the time spent on _2010_
|> could probably have been better spent writing something else. But
 
 Actually I was rather fond of _2010_. It made me want to take my next
vacation in Jupiter orbit. (obligatory curses directed at the incompetent
US space program...) 

|> these two are very different from most of his other novels, as most
|> of them are set up so that it is impossible for them to be sequels
|> to each other.
 
 Well, actually, so are _2001_, _2010_ and _2061_. They're sequels of 
alternate-universe versions of each other.

|> Anyway, I happened to read _The Ghost from the Grand 
|> Banks_, and even though it wasn't extremely good, he's back on my
|> auto-buy list.
 
 _Ghost_ was what convinced me that Clarke can still write like he used to.
I enjoy this sort of style, the technology-based plot sprinkled with many 
of the weird factoids that Clarke has picked up in his lifetime. High 
literature it's not, but great fodder for hard-sf fans like myself.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell
Date: 1 Jan 93 19:41:19 GMT
Back-References: <1hut4kINNpac@transfer.stratus.com>

In <1992Dec31.074208.23131@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Ken Arromdee wrote:
> Who defined SF in its current form is another unprovable; I could just as well
> claim Star Wars defined SF today.  There are just so _many_ things that
> influenced today's SF that you can't trace most specific innovations back to
> single sources.

You're dead wrong.  So wrong that there is no point in continuing this.  Go
do your homework; read Hartwell's _Age_Of_Wonder_, Moskowitz's _Seekers_Of_
Tomorrow_, Panshin's _The_World_Beyond_The_Hill_, and, yes, even Aldiss's
_Billion_Year_Spree_.  Then read a representative collection of pre-Campbellian
SF; Forry Ackerman's _Gosh!_Wow!_Sense_Of_Wonder_ is a good place to start,
though misleading in one important respect --- it was filtered for quality.

It *is* in fact possible to trace the innovations that defined modern SF to 
individual sources.  It's been done, thoroughly and frequently enough that
scholars of the field differ largely on details and emphasis rather than
factual substance or judgement.  You are clearly ignorant of all this and I
suggest you repair that ignorance.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:33:12 GMT

If a new play by Aeschylus or Shakespeare were to appear, it would belong in
the canon if only for the new light it would throw on the author's other
works, and on the genre. The Dead Sea Scrolls are a case in point.


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Why Heinlein's folk want babies
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:10:35
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<1992Dec16.174924.27043@maths.tcd.ie> <dpn2.215.724544429@po.CWRU.Edu>
	<1h5l48INNk55@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: datta@wheatena.berkeley.edu's message of 21 Dec 1992 23:48:24 GMT

In article <1h5l48INNk55@agate.berkeley.edu> datta@wheatena.berkeley.edu (Ruchira Datta) writes:


   Speaking of thought, I lost all respect for Heinlein (not that I was
   a Heinlein worshipper to begin with) after he spent several pages

 ...

	   Why is SiaSL supposed to be such a great novel?  The basic
   philosophy is "Sex Is Great and Man Is God."  In TEFL this is extended
   to "In the future everyone will realize this.  Humankind will use its wonderful

 ...

	   Again, in the presence of other redeeming qualities this kind of
   thing could be forgiven.  But when the only novelty about Heinlein's
   fiction is that it is science fiction, he should at least have thought the
   science through!
	   Anyway, I am just irritated that I spent time and money reading
   TEFL, based on other people's high opinion of Heinlein.  If it were just
   some ordinary hack, I wouldn't be so mad - after all, you live and learn,
   when choosing SF authors as in other areas.  But with someone with the
   reputation of Heinlein - you'd think there must be *something* good about
   him.  As far as I can tell, it must be that he was bold enough to express
   a philosophy with which his readers would like to agree, but were too
   timid.

Ack, TEFL and SiaSL are probably two of the worst novels for a newbie
introduction to Heinlein. Far better to start with his short stories
from the 40s and his "juveniles" from the 50s, keeping in mind the
context of when they were written. (This applies strongly to SiaSL,
at the time it was very original, indeed it seems lacking now
because so many of its ideas have permeated the culture).
If you find his 40s shorts lacking in originality, chances are it
is because a lot science fiction since has been based on some of
the concepts he introduced - not always alone or first but well
and effectively. 

Ducking for cover as the annual Heinlein flame war heads
for a new level of intensity...

|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
| steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
From: CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:Ellison
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:01:41 GMT

>Question: does anyone remember the title of the Harlan Ellison short story
>on which the movie "Terminator" was initially based?.

According to Cameron, "Terminator" was loosely based on Ellison's story
"Soldier" (which was adapted as an _Outer Limits_ story under the same
name)  and not "I have no mouth and I must scream".  Since Cameron,
had acknowledged this, Ellison made sure he got some royalities from
the movie.  Depending on which early copy of the "Terminator" you have,
you may have Harlan credited, or another copy which deletes Harlan's
credit.

Carol Doms
University of Missouri-Kansas City
cdoms@umkcvax1
cdoms@vax1.umkc.edu
From: hposo@vipunen.hut.fi (Heikki Poso)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Ellison
Date: 24 Dec 92 22:06:22 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <1hb2otINNld2@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:

   In article <9212232319.AA17732@rutgers.edu> DCHANG@uhccmvs.BITNET (Doreen Chang) writes:
   >Question:  Does anyone remember the title of the Harlan Ellison short story
   >on which the movie "Terminator" was initially based?
   >
   >Does anyone know the title of an anthology in which I can find said story?
   >
   I believe that it was from "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream." There's
   an anthology with the same name floating around somewhere, but maybe you
   can leaf through The Essential Ellison to see if it's there.

It can be found in _The Super Hugos_, collected by Asimov.
ISBN 0-671-72135-6.

Heikki
hposo@vipunen.hut.fi
--
"The effort to understand the universe is one of the very few
things that lift human life a little above the level of farce,
and give it some of the grace of tragedy."  - Steven Weinberg
From: ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi
Date: 28 Dec 1992 01:03:47 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: chagall.cns.caltech.edu

In article <1992Dec27.204813.21098@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlabossi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael C LaBossiere) writes:
> Some brief notes on PC (politically correct, not personal computer):

This reminds me of when George Bush came to Caltech last year to give
the commencement speech.  He told a bunch of jokes.  At one point he
said that Caltech is a place where PC stands for personal computer.
Around me a saw a lot of questioning faces:  what else would it mean?

-- Ojvind

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bjones@denitqm.uswest.com (Brent Jones)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: U S WEST Information Technologies
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:23:10 GMT

In article <8249@lib.tmc.edu>, drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David
Gutierrez) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Dec29.232115.24785@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew
> Solovay) writes:
> >How can Huckleberry Finn possibly be non-PC or anti-PC? It was,
> >and is, one of the most strongly anti-racist books in American
> >literature. I would think Huck Finn would be the one part of the
> >canon the PC types were happiest with.
> 
> Irrelevant to the Politically Correct. The book contains the word "nigger",
> therefore it is evil - never mind what the words surrounding it say.
> 
> David Gutierrez
> drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu
> 
> "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard

I have a real problem with the label "PC" or any other term that allows
the pigeonholing of ideas or concepts (or people) without any thought. I,
for one, try to avoid describing anything as "left wing, "right wing,"
"PC," etc. because it's a knee-jerk reaction that precludes a serious
consideration of the matter at hand.

We have a whole thread here predicated on a term that really has no
definition, only the negative, oppressive connotations associated with it.
If I asked for a definition of PC, I'd get fifty nebulous responses that
might (marginally) reflect one another in some way or another. The person
who coined the term intended that it serve as a way to conveniently
discount
viewpoints to which he was opposed without having to rationally prove the
invalidity of each one.

"People who objected to HF were/were not PC." "Heinlein was/was not PC."
What the heck does it mean, anyway? What's the point of using a nebulous,
subjective term like this? I know it's the buzzword of the day, but what,
besides its faddishness (and the fact that it allows someone to discount
an idea or action simply by name-calling), recommends it?

--
Brent Jones, Lead Tech. Editor, U S WEST IT, bjones@denitqm.uswest.com
"of beautiful weeds that cannot hide from the farmer and helplessly have 
to watch the shadow of his simian stoop leave mangled flowers in its wake, 
as the monstrous darkness approaches."--V. Nabokov _Signs and Symbols_
From: mccoy@cayman.com (Michael McCoy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Name this book.......*pleeezze!*
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:24:01 GMT
Reply-To: mccoy@cayman.com (Michael McCoy)
Organization: cayman.com

saruman@cats.ucsc.edu (Nicholas Patrick Popoff) writes:

>Futuristic military type deal, flashback to "starship troopers"
>with people doing combat drops out of spaceships.  But the
>deal is that the drops are basically suicide, and a troop only
>has to do one or two before they get released.  Well, the
>main character gets lost in the paperwork or something,
>and they keep on dropping him and dropping him and he keeps on
>coming back.

Armor, by John Steakley.

================================================
You are not here to verify,
Instruct yourself or inform curiousity
Or carry report. You are here to kneel
Where prayer has been valid.
From: rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: What is the name of this book?
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:47:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: rhaller.rhaller-281292142155
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu

Back in the 50s, there was a company (the name escapes me) that published
low priced hard cover SF (I think Fred Pohl was responsible for the idea).
One of them was a novel that took place on Venus. This Venus was mostly
covered with water. The hero gets on the wrong side of some powerful people
and winds up spending years of his life in a drugged state and amnesiac. 
Eventually,  he recovers, et cetera.

Anyone know the name of this novel and the author? The two names that my
memory disgorges as possiblities are Cyril Judd and C.M. Kornbluth.

-Rich Haller <rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu>   University of Oregon, Eugene, OR,
USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:59:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
|> swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
|> 
|> I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
|> Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
|> money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.

A A Attanasio     (I forgive him for Wyvern.)
Iain Banks        (With or without the M.)
Robert Forward
Robert A Heinlein (If I see it, I will buy it.)
R A Lafferty
Anne McCaffery
Spider Robinson
Vernor Vinge
Roger Zelazney    (I *like* Amber. Sorry.)

Larry Niven finally got pushed out by the Dream Park books. If there was 
any way to differentiate the Greg Bear who wrote Eon and Blood Music from 
the guy with the same name who did The Infinity Concerto he'd be on the list.

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Maidenhead itself is too snobby to be pleasant. It is the haunt of the
   river swell and his overdressed female companion. It is the town of showy
   hotels, patronized chiefly by dudes and ballet girls. 

   Three Men In A Boat, Jerome K. Jerome, 1889
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Keywords: Anarchy
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:38:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.220418.23259@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>
>Oh, and are you sure you mean _Inherit_the_Stars_?
>That one didn't seem to have much about anarchy (that I can
>recall). Perhaps you mean _The_Two_Faces_of_Tomorrow_, where
>Earthers try to impose laws on an anarchic colony?
>
   No, the one you're thinking of is _Voyage from Yesteryear_. _TTFoT_ is
about an AI experiment on a space station.


   While I'm here, how about _War of Omission_ by Kevin O'Donnell Jr.?
There's one where anarchy breaks out.


-- 
 Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student  | Entropy isn't what it
 neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca    Ad astra  | used to be.
 utzoo.utoronto.ca!generic!cneufeld              |
 "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell (was: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:25:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.021300.15981@netcom.com> mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>>>Finally, about `political values'.  When SF loses Campbell's commitment to
>>>individualism, freedom, competence, and rationalism, it will be dead.
>>When American sf gets rid of the Campbell influence, it will be something to
>>celebrate. The fellow did the genre almost as much harm as Gernsback did.
>>Fortunately, his influence was limited to the U.S. -- in the rest of the 
>>world you could actually write literate sf even in the forties.
>Why is it that the apparant majority of people who talk about "literate
>sf" mean exclusively sf that is collectivist, totalitarian,
>anti-competent, and anti-rational?

I don't.  But I still criticize Campbell.  You see, I disagree that Cambpell
_is_ those things mentioned above, not disagree that those things, if actually
present, are good.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: howard@titan.hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Keywords: Anarchy
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:17:36 GMT
Reply-To: howard@hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc., Campbell, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.hal.com
In-reply-to: rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker)

A Door into Ocean, by Joan Slonczewski.  Highly recommended.
--
Howard Gayle
HAL Computer Systems, Inc.
1315 Dell Avenue
Campbell, California 95008
USA
howard@hal.com
Phone: +1 408 379 7000 extension 1080
FAX  : +1 408 379 5022
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW)
Subject: Re: Name this book.......*pleeezze!*
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:15:33 GMT

In article <SfW=gSA@engin.umich.edu> rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
>In article <1h418gINNj9m@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> saruman@cats.ucsc.edu (Nicholas Patrick Popoff) writes:
>>	Futuristic military type deal, flashback to "starship troopers" with
>>people doing combat drops out of spaceships.  But the deal is that the
>>drops are basically suicide, and a troop only has to do one or two before
>>they get released.    Well, the main character gets lost in the paperwork or
>>something, and they keep on droping him and dropping him and he keeps on
>>coming back.  As i understand it, the book is funny, and probably written
>>in the first person.  
>
>This is a slightly mangled synopsis of "The Forever War" by Joe
>Haldeman.  Eminently worth reading, though I wouldn't describe it as
>"funny" except intermittently.  Dark, satirical, wry, sentimental and
>humane would apply.  It does have a few laughs in it, but don't
>expect anything like the horrible "comic SF" genre of, say, Pratchett.
>

It actually sounds more like a description of _Armor_ by John Steakley.  It's
about a recruit who seems to have a talent for survival where everyone can't
survive more than a few combat drops.  Only the second half is written
in the first person because... hmmm, is this a spoiler?  Well, just in
case...

























Hope that worked.  The book changes main characters halfway through (very
irritating IMHO).  The latter half of the book takes places a few years
after the action in the first half, with a few "flashbacks" (for lack of
a better word) to the main character of the first half.  
-- 
Robert Ho
Univ. of Toronto
hora@ecf.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Subject: Re: SF Islamic deficient?(was Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?)
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.013745.19096@wdl.loral.com> mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar) writes:
>The "Silence Leigh" triology by Milissa Scott is set in a Islamic space
>faring culture.  Two of the books are "five Twelth's of Heaven" and
>"Mistree so the Earth" and I don't remember the other one.
>
>--
>Mark Biggar
>mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
>

The books are: _Five Twelth's of Heaven_, _Silence in Solitude_, and 
_The Empress of Earth_. Sometimes collectively called _The Roads of Heaven_.

A good read if you need a change from the usual formula rockets 'n spaceships
stuff.  I've never seen this concept of space travel copied Anywhere.

Chris Miller
chris@MorningStar.Com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Jack the Bodiless: Where is it? 
Distribution: world
Organization: none in Particular
Reply-To: dave@yoyodyne.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:21:22 +0000

In article <1992Dec30.180658.22666@noao.edu> jean@noao.edu writes:

>
>        Ok. Now I'm gettiing really impatient.
>        I haven't seen _Jack the Bodiless_ anywhere.
>        Is it really out, or are you guys pullin'
>        my leg? Is it hardback (of course) or paper?
>        Is it out in the US, or just the rest of the
>        world, or what?
>
>        jean

It's certainly out in the UK, I pickup up a copy bout 3 months ago. Price was
14.99 pds ISBN is 0-00-223875-6. Hope this is some help.

Dave...
-- 
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--
David Bisping                       |    dbisping@cix.compulink.co.uk (perfer)
Currently 'resting' as Actors say   | or dave@yoyodyne.demon.co.uk
                                    |    Tel +44 81 531 2703   
"This new learning fascinates me Sir Bedervere, Tell me again how Sheep's
 bladders may be employed to detect Earthquakes"  Monty Python & the Holy Grail
**--**--**--**--**  PGP version 2.1 Public Key available  -**--**--**--**--**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Results of electronic SF
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:11:11 GMT

Actually the access counts were good, but not as high as expected.
A little over 3000 people accessed the stories.  Just over 200 voted.
Contributions, not counting my own, were around $210, and the authors
received their shares some time ago.  All the money went to them, with
two shares to Mike Resnick.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: easy-to-confuse author names (was Re: New Ace SF Specials)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 07:16:45 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: maelstrom.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@maelstrom.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec21.185218.1@fnala.fnal.gov> higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
)Once, I found myself in a consuite where the TV was playing ["Marooned"]
)Nobody was paying any attention to it.  I fiddled with the
)color controls on the TV set to suppress current from the green
)electron gun. I couldn't get anybody to comprehend the joke, however,
)much less laugh at it.   

	I don't comprehend it either. Care to explain?

	Mystery Science Theater 3000 did this film, under the title
"Space Travelers". It was hilarious.

)Bill Higgins   

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |      "Hey, mister! Your ninja's dragging!" 
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | 
goldfarb@soda.berkeley.edu |