From: callum@bain3.bain.oz.au (Callum Gibson)
Newsgroups: aus.religion
Subject: Re: no thrills from  no frills
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:29:28 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Bain & Company, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Rick Jelliffe (ricko@ee.uts.edu.au) wrote:
> callum@bain3.bain.oz.au (Callum Gibson) writes:
> >... Christianity is a No-frills religion. 
> I disagree: it is incredibly rich and ever unfolding. A puritan style of 
> religion does suit some people, but it is more bleak than God demands:
> he enjoys religious acts done by his church.

What makes you think He enjoys religious acts?  Weren't the Israelites
tangled up in trying to earn their salvation through religious acts?  Jesus
came to set them right again, and to explain that salvation came through a
relationhip with God through Christ (at least after he came).  He explained
what their underlying motives were to be and he cut through all their vain
religious acts, causing them to become very annoyed with him.  Don't you
get the impression that Jesus was quite down to earth?  He didn't take any
notice of the Pharisees silly rules that _they_ had made up, not God.

> > That's exactly what Jesus told the Pharisees.  He said
> >forget about your religious works, love God and let that love guide your
> >actions.  
> Did he? He was baptised, and that was a religious act: he wanted his
> disciples to baptize too. He instituted religious acts too: communion
> for one. He was against hypocrisy and attempts to pridefully earn salvation
> outside of an integrated good and faithful life.

Did he?  (sorry to repeat you).  Jesus certainly did some things, but I am
not convinced he instituted them.  Jesus was baptised as a sign of submission
to God the Father, which is the same reason Christians do it now.

> You seem to think that Catholic religious acts are a hinderance to 
> following Jesus: on the contrary, I have found the ones I am required to
> do (baptism, confirmation, confession, communion, fasting) wonderfully useful.

Well, those acts you have listed are certainly not limited to Catholics.  In
fact the ones you say you don't do (or at least are no required to do) are
more Catholic-specific.  Don't get me wrong, some traditions have a lot of
good sense behind them in helping us to understand things and stuff like that.
However there is a danger with religious acts: subsequent generations do not
have the same reasons necessarily for performing them hance they become only
an act, not a witness to the underlying belief of the person.  So, if someone
thought that such and such was a good thing to do and aided their faith and
worship in church or whatever, their children won't necessarily feel the
same way, nor their children etc.  You see, the act is only supposed to be
witness to our faith, it is not supposed to give us our faith or salvation,
and that is where the problems begin.  I am not suggesting a "puritan style"
of religion (whatever you mean by that - probably not what I understand by
the word puritan), just that "religion" (if we must use the word) remains
relevant to people, and does not become a set of laws to follow.  As Brian
Willesdorf said at our guest service last night, Jesus did not come to
institute a religion.  The Pharisees were trying religion and it wasn't
working (and it still doesn't).  He came because he loved us.  He came to
show us His love, not to give us religion or religious acts to perform.  If
certain acts like communion enable you to remember and reflect upon God's love
in a more meaningful way then it is good that you do it.  However, do not
say that Jesus came to make rules so that everyone would be forced to have
the same "meaningful experience" because people are different, hence they
won't, and then you'll have religion only and no God.

regards,
    Callum
-- 
Callum Gibson                           callum@bain3.bain.oz.au
Eyeball Temporary Analyst/Programmer    BH : +61 2 258 1620
Fixed Income Division                   Fax: +61 2 258 1128
Bain & CO, Sydney, Australia.           AH : :-)
Newsgroups: aus.religion