HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal  )
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: How could SpaceBalls win?
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:43:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu

In <1993Jan22.020728.63038@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:

>>>   Now, I can quote you any how I wish.  There is no regulation on quoting.
>>>   AlsoSETTLE CK!  I'm just trying to have some fun!  Try it sometime,
>>>   you might actually like it!
>> 
>> Of course you can quote someone any how you wish - but you open yourself to 
>> lawsuits for libel or slander.  It's your choice... '>

>I hardly think that posting quotes to the net are slander material.

Defamation of character on a worldwide network read by a few million?  Hmmm...
I'd still be careful if I were you.  Americans are lawyer happy... (and one of
my best friends of 17 years is my legal counsel)  ;>

>Besides, I did include [stuff deleted] and ..., so there!

Ah, but you did NOT include  [stuff deleted]  at ALL points... ;> particularly
AFTER my commment about techno...which was the MOST important part of my
statement!  

>> Now, for the record, AGAIN:
>>
>> Now, if you can't accept the fact that others may have different opinions
>> than you do, then please seek the help of a counselor for your problem.

>Perhaps you should seek out council.  All boar and no fun makes Crystal
>a very dull gal.  Perhaps even lame!

[ *hehehe*  He doesn't know me very well, does he, friends?  *hehehehe*]

>:)                      :)                       :)                    :)

>> Thank you,

>For what?
>Hey!  Are you still upset with me because I didn't purchase 
>Marble Madness! from you?  Sorry, but my wife got it for me first...

????

I'm afraid I don't even remember that...

*sigh*

Nope, just upset with being quoted out of context.  Most of the time it doesn't
matter, but when you mess with my philosphy of life, and quote me as making a
strong "black/white" comment without also quoting its "grey area" explanation, 
you play with fire.  And when you play with fire, you can get burned.

I've had too many people in my life trying to force THEIR thoughts into MY head,
that I will NOT stand for it being done any more.   My thoughts are my own, my
likes and dislikes are my own, and I WILL defend the rights of others to have
thoughts, likes and dislikes of THEIR own, too.  We may disagree, but that is
ALSO your right as well as mine.

All I ask is RESPECT for the opinions of others.  Whether you agree with them
or not is immaterial.

Crystal
(Born under the FIRE sign of the Ram, so watch it, Bucko!  *evil snicker*)

"If you tilt a crystal just right in the sunlight
     You can set the world on fire!
	 I'm focused on you...
    	     Are you getting hot yet?"   
 
 (from my .plan file, written 4-91 by me, has many interpretations)

*grin*

>--
>Travis Carter
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: mortene@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Eriksen)
Subject: How to read clock?
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:11:22 GMT

How can I read date and time from assembler (assuming an internal clock), without
having the OS running (killed at bootup)?  Just using CurrentTime() in
exec.library isn't enough, if I do this before I do a 'SetClock load' I'll just
get a date of 1/1 1978.

Morten
From: Jean-Guy_Speton@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Jean-Guy Speton)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Old "The Champs" intro...
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:44:59 PST
Organization: Tunnel-Vision BBS!

As long as everyone is looking for old intros, I'm looking for a way-old
intro from the long defunct group The Champs.  This intro started out with
lo-res text in various colors statting that the demo was in AmigaBASIC,
but "68000 soon".  Then the screen faded and a small spinning globe
appeared with a HUGE Champs logo that bounced and warped in various ways,
all to the tune of a Depeche Mode song (I don't remeber the name -- the
instrumental one from A Broken Frame).  If anyone has it or knows where it
can be found, I'd be most grateful for the information...

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR] *

-- Via DlgQWK v0.65a
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: larsent@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LARSEN  TORE HOIVAAG)
Subject: Re: demo groups..
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 07:31:33 GMT

kkallio@vipunen.hut.fi (Kiia Kallio) writes:

>In <Alex_Topic.05pk@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca> Alex_Topic@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Alex Topic) writes:

>> 
>>    And about all that U.S. slandering, well I just like to tell the
>>truth. I know it can hurt sometimes..heh. Well CANADA is similar to
>>Australia, except we don't speak with those nasty english accents..heh
>>I guess we are more americanized. Isn't Norway, Sweden, and Finland
>>alot similar to each other. Geez in europe it seems you have to know
>>various languages..heh I'm surprised some of you can speak english
>>quite well. later on!

>Do not ever say Sweden and Finland are similar to each other... You can not
>insult us Finns more than this... :)

 I agree with the Finn! Don't ever say that Sweden and Norway is simular!
 We Norwegian are proud to say that Norway is the most beautiful country
 in Scandinavia, hell, lets say Europa.
 And Canadian, wake up from your sleep and visit europa sometime. Maybe
 you will broaden your mind!

 T:-)
 PS! Viking currently living in Colorado, U.S.A.
     By the way, British Colombia is very simular to Norway! Have
     you been there?

>> 
>> -Alex Topic(pronounced Toe-pitch..heh) 

>>-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

>Kiia Kallio
>kkallio@vipunen.hut.fi
>                    ^^
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal  )
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: How could SpaceBalls win?
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:30:28 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu

In <1993Jan20.223859.62955@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:

>In article <crystal.727466969@glia>, crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>> In <1993Jan19.011825.62856@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:
>> 
>>>In article <crystal.727378209@glia>, crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>>>> In <MKNIP.93Jan18152722@wolverine.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>>>> 
>>>>>>   I guess you're right here. But techno sucks, that's a fact! :-)
>>>> 
>>>>> No it doesn't!   :-)
>>>>
>>>> I agree that techno is horrid
>>>
>>>  NO IT ISN'T!  TECHNO IS THE -BEST-
>> 
>> [Stuff Deleted....]
>>
>> ...techno is horrid
>>
>> And I stand by my statement.
>> 
>> Crystal
>>   ;>

>Crystal,

>   Techno _IS_ the best!!!

To each his own.

>   Now, I can quote you any how I wish.  There is no regulation on quoting.
>   AlsoSETTLE CK!  I'm just trying to have some fun!  Try it sometime,
>   you might actually like it!

   
Of course you can quote someone any how you wish - but you open yourself to 
lawsuits for libel or slander.  It's your choice... '>

Now, for the record, AGAIN:

I agree that techno is horrid, but I'll defend to the death the other
person's right to have their own opinion.  :>

Now, if you can't accept the fact that others may have different opinions
than you do, then please seek the help of a counselor for your problem.

Thank you,

Crystal
  ;>

>--
>Travis Carter
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: The Party II graphics competition
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:10:53 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <kkallio.727739497@vipunen.hut.fi> kkallio@vipunen.hut.fi (Kiia Kallio) writes:
 >In <1jotoeINN90t@cc.tut.fi> l115130@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero) writes:
 >
 >Even if you know how HAM
 >works and adjust your palette to that there will be errors in the
 >picture.

But if you really know how it works then you can well hide those
transistions and fringings. At least I know several pictures where
someone succeeded in this.

 >>Now I disagree! HAM is challenging and difficult to use, but when you get used
 >>to it there is no other choice! I love to have about 1,500 different colours
 >>in one picture - boy, it looks great! 
 >
 >I would like to see a picture with that amount of colours... It is about 3/8
 >of whole amiga palette. I have studied art, and dare to say that it would
 >be a bit too colourful.

Oh you're wrong. You need *many* colors when there are smooth transitions
from one color to another. And this is the fact for most natural images,
like digitized ones or also raytraced ones. I have counted the numbers
in some good HAM images I have, and also came out with numbers between
1000 and even 2000!

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!
From: knoll@remus.rutgers.edu (KNOLL)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Amiga...to be or not to be.
Summary: Demo request.
Keywords: demos amiga
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:15:01 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Greetings.  A friend and I periodically hop from computer fair to computer fair in New Jersey.  Over the course of the past few months, I have seen an astounding decline in the amount of Amiga software shown or sold.  In fact, 3 malls in my area (Quakerbridge, Woodbridge and Bridgewater Commons for you NJ locals) have computer software shops in them, but they ALL decided to clear out all traces of the Amiga.  (ie.  No software/hardware for sale).  Now, this greatly desturbed my buddy and I, so we decided w



e are going to go on a Quest of Enlightenment.  He has a 3000 UX and I a 500.  What we plan to do is take our systems to various Computer Fairs and set up some demos to show off the Amiga's graphics, sound and it's other fine qualities (cost being one of them).  We haven't decided if we are actually going to sell them at the show, (we are but college students after all, and to start a business takes money) but this is another story...

What I need YOU to do is to send me the BEST DAMN DEMOS you have.  Something that couldn't be done on an IBM or other machines (or something that could, but the Amiga does it better, faster nicer..etc).  Any questions?

Mail those demos to :

Knoll@remus.rutgers.edu

Thanks.

-Knoller
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: pjunold@daimi.aau.dk (Peter Joachim Unold)
Subject: Re: Help on fast polyogn filling
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 05:17:14 GMT

jaxh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Jon Hanson) writes:


>PS to all the dudes who are going to tell me the whole point of coding is to do it
>yourself - bullshit - what is the point of me 'reinventing the wheel`. As far as I'm
>concerned, the art of demo writing is not to produce superfast code that is better
>than everyone elses, but to produce original, stylish and interesting demos - writing
>polygon fillers/3d routines etc is the drudge, putting them together and getting out
>something cool is the art.
After a hard night trying to code the very ultimate lineroutine ever seen(on a PC...),
and with no success yet, I can't agree with you that these "basic" routines  aren`t
art. Even getting the blitter to draw lines, can be done in many ways.

 back to code
   peter unold 

Anyone ever tried coding a line routine, consisting of the runslice algorithm combined 
with huge lookup tables and oceans of MOV commands to be patched. All in a sick and
weird video Xmode... Fuck is sucks.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: erlebach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Thomas Erlebach)
Subject: when to download from nic.funet.fi ?
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:29:23 GMT

During the last week I tried to get into nic.funet.fi
via FTP quite frequently, but I always got the reply:

220-There are 48 (max 48) foreign archive users at the moment.

Hell, I even tried it at midnight !! So, can anyone suggest a
time when funet isn't filled up with foreign users so I can
get some more of the Paty92-Demos ?

E.T.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Thomas Erlebach           |       erlebach@informatik.tu-muenchen.de        |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Winners save the Planet!  |    //  Only Amiga makes it possible             |
|     (Play Apidya!)        | \\//                                            |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: Kimmo.Ketolainen@f151.n222.z2.fidonet.org (Kimble)
Subject: Re: VirtualWorld...It doesn't work
Organization: The Royal Imperial Mutual Alliance Consolidated Insurance Co Ltd
Date: 28 Jan 93 10:22:20

graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) wrote:

> I recently ftp'ed VirtualWorld.dms by Tobias Richter from 
> amiga.physik.unizh.ch.
> When I un-dms'ed it, dms report that there was a "fatal error" on the 
> disk.

This demo is at nic.funet.fi in /pub/amiga/demos/misc in lha format.

> Jim Graham 

     ......................................................         .  ___ o
     Kimmo.Ketolainen@{obs.ee,{cc.utu,cs.utu,nic.funet}.fi}_________|\/""o\ o
     Yo-kyla 84 A 10, FIN-20540 Turku  phone +358 21 378227         |/\_~_/
     ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''         '   '
From: Kimmo.Ketolainen@f151.n222.z2.fidonet.org (Kimble)
Subject: Re: Suggestions ?
Organization: The Royal Imperial Mutual Alliance Consolidated Insurance Co Ltd
Distribution: alt
Date: 28 Jan 93 20:26:05

f92-jgr@alv.nada.kth.se (Joakim Grundwall) wrote:

> In <5632@ettarre.lulea.trab.se> lsa@lulea.trab.se (lsa) writes:
> >Hi i`ve been away from my computer so i want to to some homework, can
> >anybody send in his suggestions for the best demos currently around ?

> The best demo around is:
>  BLUE by Mahoney and Kaktus

Great! And you have uploaded it to FTP site _____________________?

> * Jocke, email: f92-jgr@nada.kth.se * 

     ......................................................         .  ___ o
     Kimmo.Ketolainen@{obs.ee,{cc.utu,cs.utu,nic.funet}.fi}_________|\/""o\ o
     Yo-kyla 84 A 10, FIN-20540 Turku  phone +358 21 378227         |/\_~_/
     ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''         '   '
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans)
Subject: Re: PAL or NTSC?
Organization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:16:30 GMT

Alex_Topic@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Alex Topic) writes:

> FF>   Demo coders like to program in PAL for two reasons: 1) Most demo
> FF> coders are
> FF> in Europe and they're default display is PAL and 2) when using PAL
> FF> screens,
> FF> there's a hair more time between VBlanks, which can be significant
> FF> when building
> FF> the next frame to be shown.

>    Actually wouldn't you have more time in NTSC? Or could do abit more
>than in PAL, since NTSC clockrate is slightly faster? Say you have a
>200 scan line display, well after that you could trigger an interrupt
>and would have tons of scan-line time. I know european demo coders
>use PAL no matter what, and I respect the use of PAL. However I know
>for sure I may make some stuff in NTSC in the future. hmm..

No, in NTSC, you'll get 16% (if I calculated it correctly) less time to
create your display, as NTSC runs in 60 Hz compared to PAL's 50 Hz. On top
of that, PAL has a higher resolution. I don't know if the processor runs
faster on a NTSC machine (for timing purposes), but the difference is so
small compared to the difference between 20 ms/frame and 17 ms/frame.
So there is no reason to use NTSC for demos.

> FF>   North American's don't like PAL for two reasons: 1) It's not what
> FF> there
> FF> default screen is (so they typically lose the bottom part), and 2)
> FF> power
> FF> in the US is sent on a 60Hz frequency, and they're televisions also
> FF> have
> FF> a 60Hz refresh rate.  The TV is significant in that the 60Hz refresh
> FF> rate is what they're use to, and the electrical power causes the
> FF> lights
> FF> to "beat" at 60Hz.  The fact that NA's are used to 60Hz refresh and
> FF> the lights
> FF> beating out of sync with the monitor causes a very subtle flicker on
> FF> PAL
> FF> screens that bothers some people.

Sure that the flickering isn't simply because the refresh rate is lower in
PAL? Americans are perhaps bothered by it because they are used to the
higher frequency of NTSC.

>      Well I have been using PAL for 2 years now, and I'm totally use
>to it. I never see a flicker now, and its alot nicer to look at stuff
>in pal. Less grainy..heh My 1084s monitor handles PAL quite well. I think
>most people on the Amiga who look at demos, have the PAL ability. If not
>its their problem... anyone serious about computing uses an monitor..heh
>not a tv! 

I still use an old TV set. I'm not as rich as all americans seem to be.
Rich capitalist pigs! :-)

>      No matter what both PAL and NTSC have their pro's and con's. I just
>wish HDTV would come out soon, so we wouldn't have different standards
>on each side of the world..heh  C'ya later!

Actually, there seems to become three different standards for HDTV
(for America, Europe and Japan I think). They never learn, it seems...
Right now, bigger TV projects are recorded on film (16 or 35 mm, I'd
guess), to be able to show on HDTV's. (At least, Swedish television
does.)
--

Martin Vilcans  marvil@lysator.liu.se
From: Alex_Topic@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Alex Topic)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: PAL or NTSC?
Distribution: world
Date: 23 Jan 93 12:57:47 PST
Organization: Tunnel-Vision BBS!

 FF>   Demo coders like to program in PAL for two reasons: 1) Most demo
 FF> coders are
 FF> in Europe and they're default display is PAL and 2) when using PAL
 FF> screens,
 FF> there's a hair more time between VBlanks, which can be significant
 FF> when building
 FF> the next frame to be shown.

    Actually wouldn't you have more time in NTSC? Or could do abit more
than in PAL, since NTSC clockrate is slightly faster? Say you have a
200 scan line display, well after that you could trigger an interrupt
and would have tons of scan-line time. I know european demo coders
use PAL no matter what, and I respect the use of PAL. However I know
for sure I may make some stuff in NTSC in the future. hmm..

 FF>   North American's don't like PAL for two reasons: 1) It's not what
 FF> there
 FF> default screen is (so they typically lose the bottom part), and 2)
 FF> power
 FF> in the US is sent on a 60Hz frequency, and they're televisions also
 FF> have
 FF> a 60Hz refresh rate.  The TV is significant in that the 60Hz refresh
 FF> rate is what they're use to, and the electrical power causes the
 FF> lights
 FF> to "beat" at 60Hz.  The fact that NA's are used to 60Hz refresh and
 FF> the lights
 FF> beating out of sync with the monitor causes a very subtle flicker on
 FF> PAL
 FF> screens that bothers some people.

      Well I have been using PAL for 2 years now, and I'm totally use
to it. I never see a flicker now, and its alot nicer to look at stuff
in pal. Less grainy..heh My 1084s monitor handles PAL quite well. I think
most people on the Amiga who look at demos, have the PAL ability. If not
its their problem... anyone serious about computing uses an monitor..heh
not a tv! 

      No matter what both PAL and NTSC have their pro's and con's. I just
wish HDTV would come out soon, so we wouldn't have different standards
on each side of the world..heh  C'ya later!
 
 -Alex

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
From: slhmz@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: How could SpaceBalls win?
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:38:59 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <crystal.727466969@glia>, crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
> In <1993Jan19.011825.62856@cc.usu.edu> slhmz@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <crystal.727378209@glia>, crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) writes:
>>> In <MKNIP.93Jan18152722@wolverine.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>>> 
>>>>>   I guess you're right here. But techno sucks, that's a fact! :-)
>>> 
>>>> No it doesn't!   :-)
>>>
>>> I agree that techno is horrid
>>
>>  NO IT ISN'T!  TECHNO IS THE -BEST-
> 
> [Stuff Deleted....]
>
> ...techno is horrid
>
> And I stand by my statement.
> 
> Crystal
>   ;>

Crystal,

   Techno _IS_ the best!!!

   Now, I can quote you any how I wish.  There is no regulation on quoting.
   AlsoSETTLE CK!  I'm just trying to have some fun!  Try it sometime,
   you might actually like it!

--
Travis Carter
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: stigo@ifi.uio.no (Xtazy/New Wave)
Subject: Gadin/NOVA readme!
Keywords: cant reach
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:02:19 GMT
Originator: stigo@dyggve.ifi.uio.no


If anyone knows this dude (Gadin/NOVA) from france, can you
please tell him to include his correct email address in his
letters. My replies keeps bouncing back.

If anyone else has a iut-orsay.fr address maybe you can help
me reach him?

-- 
|    Stig A. Olsen  |  stigo@ifi.uio.no  |  "Ja til EF"       |   
| Never hit a man with glasses.  Hit him with a baseball bat. |
From: Paul_Trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Paul Trauth)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: The Party II graphics competition
Distribution: world
Date: 20 Jan 93 21:58:04 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Wed 20 Jan 93  9:30, L115130@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (lehtonen
wrote:

 L>   I don't like the idea of copying the work of other artists either,
 L> but how
 L> on earth would you tell if some certain picture is a copy or not? I
 L> can't see
 L> any working way of doing that, so it would be quite difficult or even 
 L> impossible to disqualify the copied works. And what about the music?
Well, there's always listening to people saying "Hey! That's a direct
rip-off of a Boris painting!" and the like... Admittedly, a few might slip
through somehow. But if one artist got disqualified because he ripped off,
say, a Roger Dean picture, you know he's going to point out any OTHER
artists who are ALSO ripping off Dean...

 L> BTW, I was quite surprised not to find a single competition picture
 L> employing
 L> the most powerful gfx-mode of the Amiga: HAM.
Well, i can't speak for all artists, but: I'm an artist. I've been one for
quite some time. When HAM paint programs came out, i played with them. I
have DPaint 4. I never use HAM. In my opinion, it's only suited for
CALCULATED pictures such as ray-traced stuff, not for something that you're
going to sit down with and lay down every pixel yourself. I like to have
pixel-level control over color, and no HAM paint program does that.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US        \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet   -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth                      \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: Kimmo.Ketolainen@f151.n222.z2.fidonet.org (Kimble)
Subject: Missing Eurochart issues
Organization: The Royal Imperial Mutual Alliance Consolidated Insurance Co Ltd
Distribution: alt
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:59:43

Is you have any of these Eurochart issues, please upload them in DMS
format to nic.funet.fi:pub/amiga/incoming/demos and we'll get a complete
archive.

Missing issues are: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 13, 17.

     ............................................................   .  ___ o
     Kimmo.Ketolainen@{obs.ee,{cc.utu,cs.utu,nic.funet,tukkk}.fi}___|\/""o\ o
     Yo-kyla 84 A 10, 20540 Turku  (921) 378227  kimketo@finfiles   |/\_~_/
     ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````   '   '