HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Sexism
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)

In article <9211091047.AA02109@relay1.UU.NET>, MASH@WEIZMANN (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>I do not  know which criteria are used for  these calendar models, but
>Matthew's dress  rules for  Orthodox men,  while they  are not  some I
>would personally  feel comfortable  in obeying, still  seem permissive
>compared to what  is expected of Orthodox women.

Not very.

>						   Bare  from below the
>knee, and  showing half the biceps,  is something which would  make it
>much  more comfortable  for women  in  Bnei Beraq  and Me'a  She'arim.

I stated the minimum.  In the very religious communities, men do not
dress the minimum.  The minimum for women--something you also won't
find in the mentioned communities--is almost the same.  Elbows should
be covered, and married women cover their hair.

>There seems to be little consideration  for the climate of the Israeli
>summer in  these rules.

No kidding.

>			  Asking men  to wear "at least"  two layers of
>underwear  on a  "hamsin day"  is IMO  also a  cruel punishment  which
>should not be allowed.

That's nothing.  There are people who wear dozens of layers of underwear
every day, no matter what--twenty, thirty, even fortysome talis katans,
each tied according to a different nusach.  If you grow up that way, I
don't think it seems so bad.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Search for Family of Minuchad Dermer Eisencraft of Brooklyn, NY
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:04:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.30
Originator: dermer@convex.csd.uwm.edu

I'm trying to help an adopted cousin.  Her name is Sarah Dermer Litmanovich.
Sarah was born in Poland, in about 1929, in the town of Beleluja near what was
then the Romanian border.  Most of her family was killed in the Holocaust.  

She says, however, that she remembers her father writing to his sister:
Minuchad Dermer Eisencraft. Minuchad lived in Brooklyn, New York prior to
the beginning of World War II.

Sarah is a dear woman.  I do plan to look at the "Zuchen Mishpoche" database
which is produced and distributed by the Jewish Genealogical Society of
Illinois and is available here in Milwaukee.  But I thought that some 
readers of this conference might be of help.  The relevant last name is
Eisencraft, Eizencraft, etc.  Her Aunt's first name was Minuchad, Minecha, or
perhaps it was changed to Minnie!

Thanks for your help!

Marshall Lev Dermer
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:10:48 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Autonomous Oblast

In article <rabjab.248.721291927@golem.ucsd.edu>, rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff
Bytof) says:
>
>Does anyone have historical and current information on the Jewish
>Autonomous Oblast, a small region in the eastern part of the xSU and
>bordered by China, Amur and Khabarovsk?

Biro-Bijan (sp?) was set up by Stalin in the 1930s as a "homeland" for the
Jews, with Yiddish and Russian as official languages. While some Jews moved
there (many with little choice) the majority of Jews did not. The Jewish
population of the oblast never exceeded 10% and the policy of encouraging
Jews to move there was abandoned in the 50s. Before Stalin died, he
allegedly had plans to force Jewish leaders to deport all Jews to the oblast,
fortunately Stalin died before this could come to pass.
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What Does it take to be a Prophet/Messanger?
Date: 10 Nov 92 08:14:40 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Nov9.180000.17645@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

>Bilaam is a special case in that he was given a gift so that the
>nations of the world should not be able to say that they didn't
>have the opportunity (this is one of the medrashim on the subject
>but I don't recall the exact source).

I've wondered how this is reasonable.  After all, they could complain,
but you didn't send us a prophet who told us how to serve you, he
told us to seduce the Jews into immorality and idol worship!  The only
things that I can recall the midrash saying that Bilaam did before he
shows up in the Torah, is that he advised Pharaoh to enslave the Jews,
and helped one nation win a war by cursing their opponents.  I would
almost think that the nations could then complain that they would have
been better off not having anyone than having Bilaam (I've had some
teachers like that, myself, not that they were as wicked as Bilaam,
but that the class would have been better off playing in traffic than
sitting through the class).

>Other commentaries on Bilaam (such as Rabbi S. R. Hirsch Z'L) point
>out that Bilaam was not necessarily a prophet but that he got people
>to believe that he could curse his enemies. He was completely
>surprised when G-d intervened and told him that he would have to relay
>His words exactly.

I find this view easier to understand.

>Yonah attempted to commit suicide (according to many meforshim)
>because he was worried about the honor of Bnai Yisroel.

Professor Uriel Simon (those who don't like his political views may
stop reading now, you may also stop if you object to the idea that
someone can suggest an interpretation that does not agree with the
standard one) is finishing a book on Sefer Yonah.  His interpretation
(I don't know if this idea is original with him, I just heard a
summary of it in a lecture) is that Yonah objected to God's
encouraging and accepting repentance.  This can be seen in the only
time Yonah puts his objection into words in 4:1 "... this is why I ran
to Tarshish, because I know that you are a God who is merciful and
compassionate ..."

In this, he sees Sefer Yonah as dealing with the question of how it is
that evil is allowed to continue in the world.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Israel and the diaspora
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:39:24 GMT

In <92312.0400382893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy
<2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>Ah yes, the famous "wish you were here" argument. Unfortunately, Israel's
>actions often effect us in the diaspora.

Oh, please!  We here in Canada are sitting comfortably.  Israel's effects
on us are nothing compared to those who actually live there.  Using the
argument that "it looks bad to the Gentiles" is a bit of a ghetto
mentality.

>For example until a few years ago
>about 90% of Russian Jewish emigres emigrated to nations other than Israel.
>Israel, feeling that the inherent right of these people to travel should only
>be extended as far as Israel tried to make it impossible for them to go
>elsewhere by arranging direct flights to Jerusalem and getting the U.S. to
>impose quotas on the number of Russian Jews entering the country.

Hardly.  I think you'll find that the vast majority of the lobbyists
were Americans, not Israelis, who were working under a (misguided) sense
of Zionism.

[...]

>Also, Israel's human rights atrocities does nothing to help fight
>anti-Semitism in the diaspora.

"Atrocities?"  Well, I don't think I'd go that far - "violations",
maybe.  And I doubt that Israel's actions have much impact on the
level of anti-Semitism in the diaspora.  You should be concerned about
human rights violations for their own sake, not because of "shame
in front of the Gentiles."

>If Israel should ever tilt to the far
>right represented by Sharon or Kach, I believe Diaspora Jews would be
>the target of anti-Semitism not seen for decades.

I wouldn't worry much about the diaspora.  But I would worry about
Israel if that ever happened.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 11 Nov 92 07:43:37
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<FAIGIN.92Nov10131151@soldan.aero.org>
	<1992Nov11.132858.19537@umbc3.umbc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu's message of Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:28:58 GMT

On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:28:58 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:

> As you probably know, the most serious problems are not with
> conversion (the person can always convert Orthodox-halakhically
> after the Reform conversion), or marriage, but divorce.  Orthodox-
> halakha requires a standard get; Reform rabbis typically (I have
> been told) do not.  

Although it is true that Reform does not impose a requirement for a get during
a civil divorce, if the Rabbi is consulted, they often recommend it. However,
civil divorce is recognized as a divorce by most Reform rabbis.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET (ToraByte Int'l)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A Byte Of Torah - The Plug
Date: 5 Nov 92 06:16:39 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: book title:"Cholent"
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:12:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.203039.5645@umbc3.umbc.edu>
shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>I haven;t seen the book, but my wife reported that she
>had (I think it's the same volume; how many books can
>there be about cholent?).  It had a recipe for chocolate
>cholent.  Now I LOVE chocolate (wanted to say haTov v'ha'Metiv
>when Baby Ruth's got the OU), but I draw the line at chocolate
>cholent; it may be alliterative, but it sounds YUCKY!  (My
>wife, a scholar and a great cook, is also enough of a humanist
>not to have tried making chocolate cholent, so I can't be sure of how
>it tastes ... but I can guess.)

I'd bet the chocolate cholent is a take off on the Mexican dish called
Mole'.  I've heard of a version in which they put a variety of other
vegetables (broccoli, kale, and other greens), chocolate, and
laxatives.  It is of course only to be eaten by those  unfortunate
souls that absolutely need it.  It is called "kale mole rachamim."
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:35:31 GMT

In <DAVIS.92Nov10105447@passy.ilog.fr> davis@passy.ilog.fr (Harley Davis) writes:

>No harm, aside from the fact that it's illegal according to American
>law to become the citizen of another country without giving up your
>American citizenship.

I belive that this is not true in all circumstances, when an
additional citizenship is automatically granted, American citizenship
need not be relinquished.

For more details Consult Your LOcal lawyeR.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Movie "Exodus"
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:48:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: col.1992Nov11.164813.17666
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

nraclaw@jade.tufts.edu (Nissan Raclaw) writes:
> In article <1992Nov9.203808.2026@col.hp.com> danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart) writes:
> >In the scene, the young boy swears on a book and gun.  The question seems
> >easy at first, what book is he swearing on?
> >
> >daniel
> 
> Something seems wrong with a Tanach and a gun?  If I am not mistaken,
> that is precisely the two things that are given to a paratrooper when he
> is sworn into that elite unit.  The Tanach, which represents the wisdom
> of Judaism and the history of the Jews, goes along just fine with a
> Jewish soldier (the next step in that history), no?
> 
> Nissan  
My problem was I didn't get into the Word to clarify my question to myself.
After studying last night I see where I got sidetracked.  In the book of 
James 5:12 But above all, my brethern, do not swear, either by heaven or by 
earth or with any other oath; but let your yes be yes, and your no, no: so
that you may not fall under judgement.

For some reason I was thinking that this was a verse out of Leviticus, I    
don't know why I couldn't find it -).  Not knowing anyone who was involved
with the liberation of Israel, I probably errored thinking most of the 
freedom fighters were also very faithful men which means they would not
want to take an oath on the Tanach which might be broken. (Evidenced by 
American soldiers taken prisoner during the Korean Conflict and the Vietnam
Conflict)

As a side-note, does anyone know when the Tanach became avail. in book form?

Thanks for the feedback
Daniel
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: If I could read only one book on Judaism, what would it be?
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:46:44 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <40857@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:
>Let's say that I'm a Martian and am assigned to learn all about
>Judiasm in one week.  What book do you suggest I read?

Well, if you know a little bit of Judaism, "The Jewish Book Of Why"
and it's sequel volume are quite useful.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:47:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.133503.805@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
>In article <memo.733601@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>> Are you saying that a conversion before a Conservative Beis Din would
>> be accepted by an Orthodox Beis Din? I really don't think it would;
>> certainly not in London and certainly it wasn't by Reb Moshe. I
>> therefore do not consider my belief to be unjustified. For that
>> reason, it was not meant as an insult, merely a statement of fact.
>
>It's pointless in SCJ to draw a distinction between insulting
>someone intentionally and stating facts which others find insulting.

It's important to distinguish between stating unpleasant facts that
must be said ("A Conservative conversion is unlikely to be acceptable
in the Orthodox community"), and stating unpleasant facts that _don't_
have to be said.

If someone asks about conversion by a Conservative rabbi, I would feel
compelled to point out that it would almost certainly not meet Orthodox
criteria.  But if someone were to ask whether Judaism accepts converts,
it would be needlessly inflammatory for me to reply "Yes, but watch out
for Conservative 'rabbis' who offer quickies that are not accepted by
'real' Jews."  (Which is not to imply that Stephen's parenthetical
insertion of "Conservative" was _that_ inflammatory.)


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Date: 5 Nov 1992 17:56:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 14996@midway.uchicago.edu, clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman) writes:
>
>What REALLY floors me, though, is the fact that only one American here has
>told me that, as a matter of principle, he will not and does not vote in
>American elections.  Everyone else was falling all over themselves to get
>in their vote for Mr. Clinton, even people who have lived in Israel and
>held Israeli citizenship for five, ten, even twenty-two years.  This is
>incomprehensible to me.
>
>Why should these people vote for both the US President and the Israeli 
>Knesset?  And, to top it off, many of them argue that American Jews have
>no business living in America.  I don't get it.
>

I moved to Israel on what I thought was permanent aliyah in 1984 and lived 
there through 1986.  I was told by many other American olim that I should 
definitely vote in the '84 elections because (1) it enabled you to vote 
for an American president who might be better for Israel, and (2) it was 
a sure way of demonstrating your interest in maintaining your American 
citizenship.  While the latter point may seem hypocritical to you, on a 
mundane level it meant that olim could visit the U.S. with less hassle. 
Also, although most of these people were firmly committed to Israel, 
they wanted their future children to have dual citizenship and they 
wanted to maintain their own.  As the old saying goes, "It couldn't 
hurt."  There is no harm in maintaining American citizenship, and 
there are scenarios where it could be very helpful indeed.


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Cantorial Service
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:47:18 GMT

er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
> rjg1@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (ron.j.greenberg) writes:
> |> At dinner that same day, a close friend of mine told me that he believes
> |> it is halachically problematic for the Chazan to repeat words in the Amidah
> |> and that Sefardic tradition generally disallows repetition. Is repetition
> |> of words halachically disallowed and if so, why does Ashkenazic liturgy
> |> seemingly permit it?
> 
> This is highly dependent on the particular shul.  Very many Ashkenazic shuls
> would not permit it.  For example, in my parents' shul (a Young Israel), the
> Rabbi does not permit repeating words in the Amidah.  And in non-Young Israel
> style shuls (Agudahs, shteiblach, yeshivas), it is unheard of.
> 
> As for the reasons, it seems fairly straightforward.  During the Amidah one is
> not permitted to talk - as the Mishnah says, even to reply to a king's greeting.
> Repeating words can be viewed as unnecessary talking, since each word need be
> said only once.  That's on a technical level.  On a subjective level, many are
> bothered by the implication that the tune takes precedence over the words; that
> words are split up ungramatically, or even repeated, just to fit a tune.

Between "Barukh sh'amar" and "Yishtabach," too, one should refrain from
unnecessary talking.  Few would call these repetitions necessary.  Before
"Hallel," we make the brakha "... asher kideshanu bemitzvotav, vetzivanu
likro et hahallel."  Until finishing the reading of "Hallel," over which
the brakha was said, there should be no other words inserted.  Else,
"Hallel" was not read.

The same goes for kedusha.  In fact, kedusha presents another problem.
The kahl should be answering the prompts of the chazan, so they should
not start their response until he finishes his verse.  The Mishna Brura,
I believe, specifically states that the chazan should not draw out the
ends of his verses, and should cut them short instead.  This way, the
kahal is less likely to start before he stops.

For kaddish before the "Amida" in ma`ariv, it is probably preferable
not to end the "yeheh shmeh ..." with "yitbarach."  It is not part of
the prescribed response, and thus is an interruption between the brakha
and the "Amida."

There are many such examples.  For instance, psukim should not be altered
during their recitation.  This one itself covers many cases.

As usual, I make these things up as I go along, so check with a competent
Halakhic authority.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:39:53 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Nov12.102247.7946@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:


>>ago followed the shooting death of a drug dealer by a policeman, after
>>which the Mayor rushed to the drug dealer's family to comfort their
>>loss, while criticizing the police.  Mayor Dinkins is making the

>Yes, thereby preventing a riot, at a time when his background wasn't
>known.  And the fact that he was a drug dealer really doesn't make the 
>shooting more justified, unless he was threatening the policeman, 
>something which hasn't been shown.  


Actually, it turned out that the police radio tapes had the cop
screaming for help in a panicked voice.  Its pretty clear that Kiko
Garcia was a violent drug dealer who was trying to hurt the cop who
was trying to nab him.

Nevertheless, I still agree with you that what Dinkins did was the
perfectly honorable and decent thing to do at the time.  And yes, he
probably did prevent a riot.

-- 
larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
_(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish