HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:53:01 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)

Greetings all,
    I just have one thing to say.  WHO THE FUCK SAID THAT US NON-COUNCIL
MEMBERS SHOULD HAVE NO FUCKING VOICE IN WHAT HAPPENS IN THE INL?!?!?  Get off
your fucking high horse Tom and discuss what is going on in the council on
n.r.g.n. (Well, perhaps I shouldn't say just Tom since no other council member
, including Rob <no, I didn't realize this was being discussed until Tom's post>
have posted anything to n.r.g.n.).  Sure, some people would not be interested
in what is happening, but THIS ISN'T A FUCKING DICTATORSHIP!!!  If you guys are
going to yank the strings and do some shit for brains schedule like this semesters
then I want to fucking know!  Especially since the INL council is not even
properly based anyways...CMU should have more than one rep as well as UCB.
Yeah Tom, go ahead and say it's another f*cking <'*' inserted for Alan's sake>
CMU plot to overthrow the glorious regime of Berkeley.  I'm sorry, but when CMU
currently has MORE INL players than any other location, it does seem kind of
stupid that they get only equal representation.  The council could at least
consist of all Team Captains or one person from each team or some such nonsense.
From what I've heard, it's basicially a polarized CMU vs UCB group mainly because
Tom will *never* (never may be a little harsh) support anything brought up from
CMU or supported by CMU and certain Council Members are simply following whoever
they happen to like best instead of actually thinking for themselves...Gee,
sounds like real life politics. Are any of you planning on running for office?

*Flame Off*

Ok, sorry about the heavy handed, pain in the arse, yell at you attitude, but
I'm really sick and tired of having no input on what's happening to *US*.  At
least post what is being discussed...you guys are only what, 10-12 people?  You
may miss things or not think of alternatives.  I'm not saying the council should
be disbanded, but at least in real life you can find out what's happening in the
gov. and throw your weight around to try to change it.  I personally think
my proposal is something that should be considered, but because I'm not an
INL council member only Brian Paulson (thanks brian) has had the intellegence
to post about it.  It's becoming more and more tempting to drop all this INL
stuff and just play scrimages since I really don't like playing under a
psuedo-dictatorship that doesn't even let the players know what's happening.

-KB
 Rear Admiral "No Ogging without Representation!" Akira
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA question (Why only US and Canada)
Date: 18 Nov 92 08:49:33 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Nov17.205958.16009@wam.umd.edu> theodore@wam.umd.edu writes:
>I have a question on the RSA distribution policy.  Why is it that only  
>citizens of the USA and Canada can recieve the code?  (BTW I am a US  
>citizen, but I am wondering the logic at restricting access...)
>

Well, here is the reasoning. The developers of RSA have a US patent on the
stuff. Therefore they are worried that countries that they don't have a 
patent will get it. That is why crypt is needed... Sorry all of
you non-US and Canadian people.. :(


Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God of Guzzler(RSA)
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:45:46 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
	<1eesb1INN13h@girtab.usc.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 18-Nov-92 Re: GB at LAR
5150@scf.usc.edu (981)

> Allow me to extrapolate an example:  LAR lost in overtime to TWNN with
> "calvin" lag since they were playing at UCLA but thru the USC machines.

> Now:
> a) can the LAR get some respect?

	Yes.
	Maybe not from everyone, but from me at least.


> b) can you guys stop bitching?


	You're not serious are you?

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: TCP needed in clients?
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:43:05 GMT

In article <BxzMLq.DzF.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>
>Hi.  Does anyone out there still use TCP?  I never do..even on local  
>servers.  Do you think it would be good to eliminate TCP use?  As I  
>understand it, TCP is much harder on networks than UDP, and sense only new  
>players (who haven't heard about UDP) will use it (I think :) we should  
>get rid of it.
>
>Comments?
>
>Rob
>aka Spaceace!

I haven't been able to get any of the UDP clients to work with my display.
They work with the console but I get "Unable to create new colormap"
or something very close to that when I try any of the new clients.

Sherlock

Roger
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:05:13 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
	<1992Nov19.212226.22047@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 19-Nov-92 Re: GB at LAR Steve
Von Worley@cory.Be (1109)

> >HEY:	a) It's not our fault.
> >	b) We have to play with this lag anywhere outside of USC.
> >	   This means it is NOT, i repeat, NOT a one way deal that
> >	   screws over our opponents only.

> I don't give a shit whose fault it is and what you have to suffer with.
> Other people should not have to suffer because you do.


	Didn't team :) play out of Flint?  maybe I'm remembering wrong.  I
don't mean to get on your case, Steve, but sometimes, it's not so easy
to get a good machine.
	The real problem is that one game counts for SOOO much right now, that
getting a game on bad lag is a total hose.  It would be nice if the INL
were set up so that if GB lost a lagged game vs LAR or :), it wouldn't
mean the end of any play-off hopes for them.

Disclaimer: I do not mean to imply LAR and :) were equivalent games, or
equivalent teams.  However, both were games that GB lost playing against
bad lag.  Please don't start flaming :) again.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:32:13 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: NIT bloodbath: GB vs XG

Away: GB -- Fed
Home: XG -- Rom
Notes: We played on inl.ksu.edu for more even lag.  bav was on hand, so
naturally, there were no serious problems with the server or net. 
LURI's connection was flaky toward the beginning, but after a pause, it
seemed to be OK.  Akira and EEK! were both playing sick, Akira moreso
(He had to sub out for a while due to nausia during the game.).  I think
that both GB and XG were more spread out than is traditional for school
teams.

	Both of our opening bombing runs sucked, but clean-up runs seemed
pretty effective.  I believe that GB had an early army lead.  They
certainly had an early planet lead, as they took our entire front line
right off the bat.  However, we gained it back pretty quickly, and went
into a cliffhanger sea-saw battle which should have been recorded.
	We drove into their space, taking 3 planets including Ceti (Agri). 
Balton died on a big push.  Then Akria subbed out, and we began to lose
ground.  He subbed back in, and we kept losing ground.  We lost our
front line, and battled to win it back.  Balton died to a nasty Ogg wave
and a dropped shield packet.  It looked hopeless, but bit by bit, we won
our front line back, even taking Rig for good measure.
	Then time ran out.
	Then the fun began.
	Then the blood flowed.
	What followed were 30 minuted of the most exciting netrek I've ever
played.  Rig, Reg, Cap, and Org all traded hands over and over again,
but never at the right times for either team.  We would see major
battles to drop one or two armies on both sides of the field at the same
time.  Some would say that this was netrek as it should be.
	The game ended in a 10-10 tie.

ZZnew guy
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: RSA (Was: RSA gobbledygook)
Date: 14 Nov 92 18:42:07 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

Please get a clue it may be very funny for you to say that but it is this kind of
insular approach that is afectively going to cut off the rest of the world from
playing netrek because you lot are unwilling to let us Europeans help you get
round the problem of import restrictions. Why are you lot not paying attention,
all that RSA is required to do is to stop people with borgs playing them on your
servers however what you have done is stopped anyone but US Citizens who are in
the US the playing..... Not exactly the required aim. ;-(

We can compile an RSA equivelent here and then you can use that. With the same
end; stopping those Borgs. WHY USE RSA WHICH LIMITS THE PEOPLE THAT PLAY? If you
stop us play I expect you will get the largest and nastiest flame war in history
and why? because you will not listen. Please let us remain playing or even
better let us help with the problem we have no export restrictions. Otherwise why
not give netrek a distribution of US and not WORLD because you will be the only
ones playing. 

Our final way to keep playing will be to hack (correct term crack) to get the
code, not exactly difficult..... We have a law against that here perhaps I will
move.... Is Germany Ok?

Also what features are currently going to be in this new client? I bet no one
knows? ...... Well may be one or two :-0


				James

.sig: Who needs a .sig?
From: JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INHL Exhibition Game I: The Return of rjones
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:18:58 GMT
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu writes:
> JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman) writes:
> [...]
> >unable to participate due to time conflicts, it's like the Canadians
> >say: "Quelle fromage.."
> >
>   Quelle Fromage means "What Cheese".   :-)
> 
>   You mean, as us Canadians would say, "C'est dommage..."

Evidently, you needed one of these:  :)

Enjoy.


Jim Reisman
P.S. Your Welcome!
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 11:32:36 -0500 
From: David Reeve Sward <sward+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 21-Nov-92 Re: Biggest Scum Ever
by Brian Paulsen@eniac.seas 
> Heh - if they start deleting characters who have used more than one name,
> then there will be a LOT of admirals who lose their rank.  As far as I know,
> Balton and I are about the only people with very high rank who haven't name
> scummed.
>  
> I usually see Rob in as only SpaceAce!, but I was assured a while back that
> Balton was the only player who made Admiral on his original character.

I believe his characters were deleted due to >>TMODE<< scumming, not
name scumming....  Name scumming is fine as long as only one is being
used at a time :)
From: bond@barracuda.cps.msu.edu (Curtis R Bond)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: RAS hummm....
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:57:55 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University


	Well it seems to me that someone out there with the skill and presistence
will eventually find a way around or through RSA. Be it by hacking or stealing
code. So while this may work for awhile, it could be possiible for borgs to be on
RSA servers in two years tops. So all this ends up being is a pain in the players
ass to go out find the codes jump thorugh all the hoops just to play the game
without borgs. A simpler idea would be start using borgs all the time, and end
this sillyness of "I got a new way of keeping borgs out game". I think borgs
discourage new comers to the game because they (the new ones) have blessed
binaries and they get the tar whipped out of them by any smuck in a borg, let
alone an Flt. Adm. with a blessed client.
	I don't need any flames, this is just an idea to kick around in your
heads. We can either update and change codes every few years or we could just say
screw it and have a hands off attitude and try to help new comers by giving them
a borg to use so they'll at least be able to defend themselfs from "ogg the new
guy scum" that are out there.

bond
A.k.a. (Gurrr, Vetterdon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: barry@seas.smu.edu (Robert Barry)
Subject: Re: RSA question (Why only US and Canada)
Organization: SMU School Of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:24:44 GMT

In article <1ed02tINN853@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.205958.16009@wam.umd.edu> theodore@wam.umd.edu writes:
>>I have a question on the RSA distribution policy.  Why is it that only  
>>citizens of the USA and Canada can recieve the code?  (BTW I am a US  
>>citizen, but I am wondering the logic at restricting access...)
>>
>
>Well, here is the reasoning. The developers of RSA have a US patent on the
>stuff. Therefore they are worried that countries that they don't have a 
>patent will get it. That is why crypt is needed... Sorry all of
>you non-US and Canadian people.. :(
>
>
>Nick Trown
>Netherworld
>Server God of Guzzler(RSA)

This is not quite right, as I understand it.  In, Communications of the ACM,
the reason is cited as US gov't restrictions on cryptography - cryptography
being considered "munitions" and thus a threat to national security.

However, the NSA (National Securtiy Agency for those of you overseas) has 
done a particularly bad job of enforcing this, and I am certain that if 
you were not concerned with the legality of it - you COULD find RSA code
out there on internet via anonymous ftp.

Robert

DISCLAIMER: It is possible that I have my head up my ---- and that I 
misread the ACM article.
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:40:15 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: flambe.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <BATHURST.92Nov16133807@felix.noaapmel.gov> bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.210944.14388@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> george@fornax.ECE.CMU.EDU (George Cebulka) writes:
>
>I have a problem getting RSA extracted:
>
>I ftp the bugger
>
>        ftp pittslug.sug.org
>
>grab the files I need
>
>        key.sun4
>        rsa_client.sun4.static.Z.crypt
>
>decrypt it:decrypt it:
>
>        crypt key.sun4 < rsa_client.sun4.static.Z.crypt > rsa_client.Z
>
>Then try to uncompress it.  The problem is compress doesn't recognize it
>as being a compressible file.  Has anyone done this yet?

This is not what you want to do. The key files listed at pittslug are for
the server. They are the server's version of the RSA client's key. Unless
you have a server the key files are not needed. So, how do you get the
crypt key? You need to mail Mike Polek. He is heading the RSA stuff. 

His address is:     mcp@cs.umd.edu 

Just tell him that yes you are a US or Canadian citizen. He will then send
you the crypt key.


>
>Which brings up another question.  Why the hell didn't they just put the
>rsa clients in there in the first place instead of making people search
>

This is unfortunately needed because the developers of RSA have a US
patent on it. They are therefore afraid that the stuff will be exported
to a country where their patent doesn't apply, such as Europe.



Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God for Guzzler
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: chen@ie.toronto.edu
Subject: Re: Screaming at the Sun
Followup-To: chen@ie.toronto.edu 
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:01:21 GMT

In article <gf2InP200WB2A8m4Mf@andrew.cmu.edu> Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Wow!  3 posts in a row by Felix and none of them made any reference to me
>or my fantasies or my being next in line for goddess status....  What's the
>world coming to???  :-)
>
>Nanci (who thinks that everyone needs to lighten up around here before she
>decides that you guys are just no fun anymore... :-))

Next in line??? Never! You are the one and only on my list! :)

Then again, my gf will OGG me if she heard that I said this. :)

	-- Paper Boy!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:24:28 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


How many international(non-canadian) players actually play in the US?  I  
know if one or two...that's about all that I know of.  I agree that its a  
hose to non-US players...but a new scheme was needed.  No one really  
complained initially, now its kind of late to tell people not to do it.   
Perhaps more thought should be given to this subject...

Besides...you can still play on borg nights...:-)

The only people that I see seriously effected will be candian players, who  
often play in the US.

What is the ping times to uk?  When is their tmode on your server?

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:44:36 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal
	<1eq4rmINN3d3@agate.berkeley.edu>

tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
> 
> There are solutions to this that should be worked out in council, not
> on the net.
> 
> Before I go on with this post, let me say that I think it's really 
> stupid to take a proposal that's before the INL council, and to which a 
> number of INL council members have provided objections, and posting
> it to the net as if it's a brand new thing, and failing to attach
> any of our arguments.  Public discussion is fine, but self-serving
> propaganda is not what the INL needs.

Umm...this scares me.  If you guys want to bicker if 4, 5, or 6 updates
is the proper number for INL servers-fine.  If you want to argue about
giving extensions past the end of the season that's ok too (works
better in small groups).  But here there is a basic issue that would
fundamentally change the way the INL operates and you don't want it
publicly discussed?!?!  

You say "Public discussion is fine", but before you said "There are
solutions to this that should be worked out in council, not on the
net."  So we can talk about things in public, just not about this?
For awhile I've been wondering if we need an INL council, and things
like this make me seriously reconsider.  Yes, they are good for
resolving disputes, but they've been operating and basically not
telling anyone else what's going on.

The rest of the world was informed of a bunch of the INL server
changes when Ray Jones posted and described a bunch of the changes he
had made a what still needed to be done.  In general, there has been a
serious gap in the INL council telling the rest of the net what is
going on.

Proposal:  The INL appoint a member to be in charge of PR.  This
person posts an agenda of things that are about to be (or are
currently being) discusssed.  Then anyone who feels strongly about an
issue can write to their rep.

It concerns me that Tom thinks that an issue as broad as scheduling
should be left in the hands of a few people.  Wake up.  Hundreds
(thousands?) of people are being effected (and probably have strong
opinions about this).

Question:  When is there a change over of INL representatives?  Are
they voted for?  Appointed by someone?  What is their term?  Can
someone fill me in on this?  

	Purple haze
	Rorschach
	Lamb, Leg Of

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: The INL council (was about INL scheduling)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:58:53 GMT

My primary reason for disliking the ladder system is this:

The best way for a team of twinks (Read: Lagg U) to improve is to play
games against better teams.  Our crushing losses to the Golden Bears,
Arrogant Assholes, Team Wizard, and Team With No Name did a lot to
move us toward becoming a better team.

If a ladder system enforces challenges by teams many spots lower than the
challenged (greater than 5 or so), then the top players will be required to
play *way* too many games.  If I were playing on a top team (fat chance), I
would be tempted to drop several rungs simply so I wouldn't have to play so
many games.

If the ladder system enforces challenges by a more restricted set of
rungs, then top teams can preserve their spots by refusing to play games,
and low ranked teams get very low priority, so there are few instances
of FLEE vs. Side Salad which I think are very valuable as a learning
experience.

A method I prefer is having a short regular season (4 games) which takes
advantage of a reasonably determined seeding to schedule games most likely
to provide a clear view of the best teams in each division and a long
playoff season (3 or 4 games), so that teams that are seeded in the wrong
spot get their opportunity to come out in the wash.

The top ranked teams (ranking method to be determined, but a poll of
seasoned players who can be trusted to choose fairly would be good) play
more games against other top ranked teams, and all teams get the chance
to play against one of the top three (or more, if enough teams register)
ranked teams to show off their stuff.

The playoffs are standard single elimination games, starting with a
round of at least half of each division, going to a division winner
and on to the finals, so that a team like Lagg U doesn't become the
defacto winner.  Losing teams are encouraged to continue, but are not
required to.

-Ensign Pac-man
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 19 Nov 1992 18:56:51 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <BxzLBE.CHt.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu writes:
>If you mean that you have the same lag playing OUT of usc as we do into  
>usc...i'm unsure.  I've seen hadley do some pretty amazing stuff on  
>bronco...stuff that I can't do on calvin.  Hadley may just be  
>awesome...either that or the lag was good that day.  

Tedd plays from UCI.  You also have xor on bronco who plays from SDSC and
does very well on bronco.  But both guys have the crappy calvin lag when they
play here.  Something about this makes me think that the problem may lie
somewhere *in* USC, and not immediately outside of it as i previously thought.
Wish i had root access so i could attempt to track it down.... the root types
here don't give a shit if the net problem only hoses netrek since it's "only
a game." :-\

Lag from here and to here varies, some days it will just freeze for 2 min
every 6 min, other days you get 90ms to bronco with no loss.

>> Now:
>> a) can the LAR get some respect?
>LAR has my respect.  You want me to bow before you as my masters?  I don't  
>think so.

Nah, it's just that some Northern Cal school doesn't seem to care much for
the LAR... you know how it is.

>> b) can you guys stop bitching?
>Depends on whether I decide to get back to work or not.....:-)

Gads.  I have a midterm tomorrow and i'm actually studying.  Someone pinch me.

5150