HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:17:00 CDT
From:         Amanda Corcoran <YKFAC@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Non-traditional students

re: non-traditional students and at risk students.

I read Liz's comments about the TAs maintaining distance between
themselves and their students, and I then thought back to when I
first started teaching (about 3 years--so I still have a lot to
learn).

I think when I first started instructing, I was torn between
being the student's buddy and being the instructor. I don't know
if I realized that you can be both if you keep the roles quite
clear.  I used to be concerned about students liking me, and I
thought that meant constantly accepting
late papers and giving them free absences. Then I turned around
and became quite strict, and certainly NOT calling them--God
Forbid!

However, finally I have made the realization that you can be a
caring, likable instructor who can show students I care by asking
after them, seeking the true reasons for problematic papers
etc. And I am really enjoying my students. They understand my
role--and I understand (or at least try to understand)theirs.

About non-trad's students--I think that one way to approach
students who may be at risk, or pretty much all students, is to
assume that this semester will be the last chance one. That my
class is the only one before that student decides to chuck it up
and go work for a garage. That I must make the effort to try to
show the students that there are means and methods and strategies
for surviving the stresses of life and college.

There *is* a thin line between "babysitting" the students and
caring. I'm still not sure I've found the defining line yet. I
just know that I enjoy my students a whole lot more if I know
them and if they know I care.

Amanda IC--TTU.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:38:56 CST
From:         ellis <nse2@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      enough of election

Cut the Clinton-mania -- enough already!
It rained here all all Mon. night and Tues.  Tears from Heaven??

N. Ellis
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:04:10 EST
From:         Ann Green <USERTFSH@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      wallflowers

Susanmarie, what you say about silent people in FTF is true; they contribute
much through body language.  But even on-line silent people contribute as an
audience.  People who write are aware of who is reading and fashion their/our
messages with them in mind, don't you think?  This is in a real way what we
mean by audience when we talk about that in comp classes, yes?  Ann/JCC
From: RGOL@SLUMUS.BITNET (Rita Goldberg)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Restructuring Writing Programs
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:18:39 GMT
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Here at St. Lawrence University we have a program very much like the one
you describe.  There is a required course for first-year students in
the writing component is very important.   The course is not only broad;
it involves out of class activities as well.  Each group is taught by
three instructors.  For more inofmation you could call Eve Stoddard at
(315) 379-5195.  She is our current first-year program coordinator, and
she also teaches English.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:30:36 -0500
From:         SULKES@UCBEH.BITNET
Subject:      love letter

This may sound goofy but what a joy it is to be on this
list server and read of the projects you folks are devising.
It's making me giddy, to say nothing of the way it consumes my
afternoons.  When I signed up, I thought I would just
glance through a few messages.  But once I realized what
you were up to, I've become enthralled, spending
more time poring over this mail than I would have conceived.
That's the problem.  I need help.  How will I get any work done?
How do the rest of you do it?
Save me, before I become a multi-media junkie.
Stan Sulkes
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From: YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET (Fred Kemp)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Tools vrs Environment
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:15:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"

I think Jeff Galin's distinction between "tools" and "environment"
is a very good one.  Both, unfortunately, are used
stereotypically and have become buzz words, but I think we can
all understand at least a conceptual difference between the
terms.  "Tools," as McLuhan might define them, definitely affect
the product and definitely affect what products we want, but
"environment," as anybody who has lived in Chicago, southern
California, and Houston would be glad to tell you, exerts a much
more profound influence on what people need and use.  This
morning on C-span (yes, I know, goofing off again) a senate
hearing on "Jobs in 1993" had three panelists all saying, with
different emphases, that information distribution and management
via computers will profoundly affect the traditional "middle
manager" in the future, and is already doing so in spades.  The
networked computer is a "tool," sure, but what is causing
corporation "downsizing" (according to this morning's testimony)
is not the recession so much as a "different professional
environment" (a direct quote; I tape these things).  I really do
believe that practical hypertext, a la Slatin the Younger and
Nelson the Weird, is on the doorstep ready to walk in with a
phalanx of Bill Atkinsons who will make it work with neery a nod
in our direction.

Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:00:47 -0600
From:         NKAPLAN@UTDALLAS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in

John Slatin is right; hypertext is simple because "there are only nodes and
links"--and of course one other element John left out (deliberately?),
namely gaps.  Don't forget the spaces, John, cuz that's where the
interesting stuff really happens.  (See Terry Harpold's work, will check on
the citation tomorrwo for anyone who's interested in seeing what is between
and around the links and nodes.)
Nancy Kaplan
University of Texas at Dallas
Box 830688
Richardson, TX  75083-0688

(214) 690-2071
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:13:23 -0500
From:         Margaret.Daisley@ENGLISH.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Lurkers or Wallflowers?

Ditto to Angela's comments re lurking/wallflowering ... although there are
rhetorical implications in both labels.  "Lurking" seems to imply something
rather sinister in intent; "wallflower" -- well, Angela describes it so well:
implies shyness, waiting to be asked.  I'm sure a lot of us are lurkers/
wallflowers due to TIME constraints, as much as anything else.  This summer
MBU was rather "slow"; I had more TIME to join and initiate discussions, and
just get used to it, as a newcomer.  Now ... seems like hellzapoppin!  At least
35+ messages a day (I know this seems like very few to those of you who are on
many bulletin boards, but for us plodding grad students ...).
     I just realized my own "reading style" recently -- very much like I go
through the "real" mail, magazines, newsletters, etc.... flipping through
and scanning, stopping at items of interest, saving/printing out other items.
    Still... any other suggestions for a replacement of the word "lurker"?
Margaret Daisley@English.umass.edu
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:59:00 EST
From:         00rjrickly@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: stretch and jumbo comp classes

>
>A few weeks ago David Schwalm and a few others mentioned "stretch"
>and "jumbo" versions of composition classes that were taught at their
>universities.  I communicated with David, but would like to gather more
>information on these courses.  Could any of you who offer modified
>sections of comp. courses instead of basic writing or in addition to
>basic writing please tell me about them.
>Patty Ericsson

Patty, at Ball State we're experimenting with a new "jumbo" version of
our first writing requirement.  Before, students who tested into our
Basic Writing program had to take an extra class as a prerequisite to
our two-semester English requirement.  Students hated it, because they
got no grade (it was pass/not pass) and they didn't get credit toward
graduation.  Now students who test into Basic Writing take a
two-semester long course in place of the first semester English
requirement.  Students have the same instructor for the entire two
semesters, so there's a sense of continuity, and they get credit
towards graduation.  It's working well so far (we're finishing the
first semester) but I can keep you posted if you like.

Becky

Becky Rickly
Ball State University
00RJRICKLY@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:06:08 CST
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Last Comments on Lurkers

Oh, come, come. . .let's not be so pithy.

There is a perfectly good English term for those who watch and listen
but do not participate, and while it is not the most wonderful of the
words in the English language, it is fairly beautiful. . .

wallflowers.

That should not have quite the negative connotations, denotations, or
whatever that "lurkers" had, and might encourage more to come in, and
join the dance, much as the power elite users might prefer them to do
otherwise.

I strenuously object to the comments labeled as the:

Last Comments on Lurkers

and I assure you that they were NOT the last.

I would like to see a "Wallflowers Week" be a part of the agenda for
the year on each of the lists I participate in, and further warn you

"If You Don't Defend The Networks, Who Will?"

=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
hart @uiucvmd.bitnet or hart@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:05:38 -0500
From:         SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET
Subject:      Re: a CAI list?

Here are some lists which are foreign language education oriented:


MMEDIA-L.  (multimedia) Inactive.
The address to subscribe to is
LISTSERV@ITESMVF1 (Bitnet) or
LISTSERV@VMTECMEX (also Bitnet)

JTLT-L   (technology information for Japanese teachers) Reasonably active.
LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU

LLTI-L   (Moderated list; Language lab, technology, etc.) Fairly active.
LISTSERV@DARTCMS1.BITNET
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:45:21 EST
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      a CAI list?

There is probably a list that discusses CAI (computer-assisted
instruction)/Hypermedia issues on a regular basis (besides MBU), but I
don't know what it might be.  Anyone got any suggestions?  There is a grad.
class here at Mich. Tech. U. that is starting in a few weeks that might
benefit by listening in--browzing as it were.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:18:30 CST
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yankee Trader Needs Info

If you can't remove the word "remedial," build a lesson around it.  It's a
great word for a lesson that language isn't neutral.  Students can contribute
their own feelings and associations about the word, and teachers can discuss
the implications of the roots of the word and bring in some of the history of
the word in education that Mike Rose has written about.  I've tried this in
courses called "Remedial English" or something similar and then asked students
to rename the course for themselves, which usually results in an interesting,
sometimes heated debate about the implications of the words that different
students suggest.
  Jim McDonald
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:07:14 -0500
From:         SASAKI@RHODES.BITNET
Subject:      Psychology of hypertext?

Dear networkers,

I am interested in the cognitive foundation of hypertext. Could someone let me
know books, articles, etc., which discuss the issue of hypertext (and/or
multimedia) from a cognitive psychology or psycholinguistics perspective?

Yoshi Sasaki
Rhodes College
Memphis
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 11:38:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) NeXTSTEP 486 an update (sort of) (14)

Entry: 14
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 07:57:30 EST
From: IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.COM" Robert Royar, (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id: <1992Nov08.075730.v7.010.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject: NeXTSTEP 486 an update (sort of) (14)
Reply-to: "Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Rodney Hoffman <rodney@cheetah.math.oxy.edu> sent the following to me in
response to a question about the rumored existence of NeXTSTEP 486 (of which I
want to own a copy). Perhaps someone later can give us a report?

Date:   Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:40:15 PST
From: "So. Cal. NeXT Users Group" <scan@csulb.edu>
Subject: NeXT meeting on Thursday

NeXTSTEP 486 will very likely be demonstrated
on Thursday 12 November at Caltech.

Southern California NeXTSTEP Users' Group (SCaN) Meeting
   with the Caltech and JPL User's of NeXT (CaJUN)

     Thursday 12 November 1992  6:30 p.m.
     California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
     Beckman Institute #134

Planned Events:

Probable demonstration of NeXTSTEP 486.
Demonstration and auction of Simson Garfinkel's SBook.
Demonstration of the Emerald Image Tool (Image Processing).
Demonstration of the new NeXT color printer
Demonstration of the new NeXT keyboard and mouse (Apple Desktop Bus).
Special CD-ROMs from NeXT and SIGGRAPH, if time allows.

There will be a social at 6:30 with a meeting at 7:30.

Dues:  $2.00

For futher information, contact:

Mike Mahoney, SCaN President and CSULB Professor
     (310) 985-1550,  e-mail:  mahoney@csulb.edu

Ernie Prabhakar, H:  (818) 568-9168, W: (818) 356-8379
ernest@cco.caltech.edu

Rohit Khare, CaJUN Vice-President, Caltech Computer Science Dept.
      (818) 792-9114,   e-mail: khare@cco.caltech.edu

------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:29:00 EST
From:         00gjsiering@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Non-traditional students

Amanda,
You mentioned the dpossible problem at choosing between being the "buddy" or
the "instructor," being easy-going or strict.  After 2 years of teaching as a
TA, I discovered that the best choice of the two is neither.  I am not a buddy,
but neither am I an enforcer.  This morning, for example, I called a student
who missed class *again*.  I could have been the buddy and let it slide again
so he would like me.  I could have been strict, cited the attendance policy,
and threatened his grade.  But instead, I offered him my experience as a near-
professional student, giving him some advice on figuring out his physical and
academic limitations concerning waking up for my class.  We all have that ex-
perience to share with them; most of us went through the same problems, or
something close.  I don't see it as babysitting; I see it as helping someone
else into the academy the way I was helped in.  Heck, without that help, I
might not be here today!

Greg Siering (oogjsiering@bsuvc.bsu.edu)

Ball State University
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:20:21 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in
              92 9:07 am

Thanks very much to John Slatin for the potentially hypertextable
litany of the uses to which hyper texts is (and will be) put.  I
will be saving this kind of information in my next move to encourage
comp. instructors in this univ. to connect comp instruction with the
1990's--right after we get them all to connect writing with computers.
Although I haven't dabbled in it, I can see that hypertext writing
is really only writing with another dimension added.  Each word
or conept can be a black hole slipping into another dimension.  I am
also imagining hyptertext writing as discursive discourse with
bottomless footnotes.
--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:57:37 EST
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Info for an argument

Megabyters,

All rational arguments having failed, I need information for a "keeping up
with the Joneses" argument.

If any of you have information on:

  -the number of institutions that have writing labs and/or use computers
   to teach writing

  -someone knowledgable about the State U of NY in particular (don't need
   info on Stony Brook!)

I'd appreciate your help.  -- Roni
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:57:00 CST
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in

Dave Schwalm (I think I've got my Daves right this time; thanks for helping me
sort myself out)-- The reader of a hypertext doesn't encounter a "random
string" of nodes (or, if s/he does, there's a problem somewhere in the
authoring). What s/he encounters is rather a set of choices, possibilities:
ways to begin, ways to proceed.  In reading a traditional text, with its
famous beginning and middle and end, the reader encounters the results of
choices already made; part of what we do as readers (and especially we as
*professional* readers) involves trying, more or less consciously, to discover
the range of alternatives that may have been available to the author of that
text; the wider the range, the more significance we attach to the choices
actually made.

Hypertext, I think, puts readers in something like the author's shoes: one
chooses one's path with greater awreness that other paths are possible.  And
one's choices are then "coded in" to the hypertext itself: the click of the
mouse *registers* with the program/text and causes the next portion to be
constructed.  In some instances, that choice becomes a permanent element of
the document-- e.g., in StorySpace's Reading modes, it's possible to "save"
one's "reading," so that the document one has read/is reading is different now
from the one first encountered (which also continues to exist).

Complex? Sure.  Difficult? SOmetimes? Confusing? Sometimes. Random? No.

In one sense hypertext is radically simple: there are only nodes and links.

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:43:59 -0800
From:         James Crosswhite <JCROSS@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Multimedia

I'm going to take the side of the students in the multimedia
controversy (how's that for rhetorical positioning!), and
see how far I can carry it. Consider the controversy to be
about reasoning, not information. How do we reason outside
of language--with images and sounds, or with the actual
physical presence of things? Perelman and Olbrechts-Tyteca
re-tell the story (I'll probably get it wrong) of a king who
sees an ox being led to sacrifice. The king orders that a
lamb be found and sacrificed instead. When asked why he
issued the command, he says that he could see the ox but he
could not see the lamb.
    P&O-T call this the influence of *presence*. It is
powerful in written reasoning, too, and is achieved in lots
of different ways--through description, amplification,
repetition, etc. In general, presence is achieved by acting
as directly as possible on people's sensibilities--in
writing, on the reader's ability to imagine seeing, hearing,
touching something (OK, smelling [especially!] and tasting
too).
    Multimedia opens up new, more direct ways to create
presence in argumentation.  Multimedia's appeal to the
imagination is much more direct, much more immediate and
forceful. One *can* see and hear the ox, in quicktime.

    The historical link between writing and reasoning, the
one that our students have inherited, is no accident. A
reason is an influence without force or violence. Writing is
language without even the force of sound. Written reasoning
is the whispering of language. Everything about it is weak
and highly mediated. Tremendous sympathy, charity,
cooperation, imagination and sheer *agency* are required of
readers in order to make writing communicate anything at
all. It's no small miracle for a writer and a reader to
share the presence of an ox in writing. Reasoning depends on
an absence of constraint and force (e.g. Habermas's ideal
speech situation), on a situation in which reasons are the
only "force."
   Achieving presence by way of multi-media is a way of
taking action on readers/viewers/auditors in a much more
direct and forceful (even more "violent") way. People's
senses are affected directly by images they need not
imagine. Students are right to see that this makes the
whispering of written reasoning much more difficult to hear.
Multi-media creates a kind of synesthetic inteference with
an already almost inaudible voice.
   This doesn't mean multimedia is irrational and
irredeemable. It only means that for the purpose of
reasoning, it makes things much harder. This is probably an
important reason *for* teaching the kind of reasoning that
goes on in multimedia. This is also why, when people want to
reason carefully, they may prefer to use writing without the
actual pictures and sounds.
  Jim Crosswhite   jcross@oregon.uoregon.edu
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