HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai)
Subject: A public apology
Organization: ----
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:27:39 GMT


To everyone,

	Oh my goodness ! It finally happened, it finally got me ! I mistaken
MISS Nimisha Mehta as a HE !!! 

	Herein, I offer my most sincere apology for the mistake. It was a
honest mistake and I have no malicious intents. Well ... I did admit to being
a "part time MCP" ... ;-)

Regards,

W.F. Wong.

PS : Even though this posting is not related in any way to s.r.e., I hope the
moderators will permit me just this once to offer a public apology. Anything
short of this would be unfair to Miss Nimisha.
From: v128fr9y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Joseph W Stewart)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Rebirth Male/Female Meher Baba
Date: 17 Aug 92 00:32:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo

>About male and female incarnations, MEHER BABA states:

Though the facilities afforded by each sex vary according to the
age and place in which the incarnation occures, nevertheless each
sex affords special facilities for the development of experience
along sprcific lines.

As a rule, men excel in qualities of the head and will.  They are
capable of sound judgment and steadfast purpose.  As a rule,
women excel in qualities of the heart.  They are capable of
intense love which makes them welcome any sacrifice for the loved
one.  It is due to this capacity of women for love that, in
devotional references, the name of the female has invariable
precedence, as when the Bhaktas sing of Radha-Krishna or Sita-
Ram.  In qualities of the heart women are usually superior to
men, and in qualities of the head and will men are usually
superior to women.  The interesting point is that the same soul
excels in the qualities of the heart, or in the qualities of the
head and will, according to wether it takes an incarnation in a
female or male form.  The alternate development of specific
spiritual qualities goes on through the alternation between the
male and female forms, until the development is all-sided.

The soul must go through male incarnations as well as female
incarnations if it is to have that richness of experience which
is a condition of attaining the realisation that the soul, in
itself, is beyond all forms of duality, including the accentuated
duality based on sex.

Unity of the subject and object of experience is unattainable as
long as there is in the object any aspect or element which is not
fully covered by one's own experience, and this applies
particularly to sex-duality.

The psyche of the soul retains the gathered experience of male
and female incarnations.  Since the soul identifies itself with
the body, the phychological tendencies which harmonise with the
sex of the body find a suitable medium for expression.  The
psychological tendencies which are characteristic of the opposite
sex are ordinarily suppressed into the unconscious part of the
psyche, because they do not harmonise with the sex of the body
and find the medium of expression obstructive.

Identification with the body involves identification with the sex
of the body.

By getting entangled with the opposite sex the buried part of the
psyche which did not go well with the body seeks some kind of
expression through another.  From this point of view sex-
attraction might be said to be a result of the effort which the
mind makes to unite with its own unconscious part.

MEHER BABA  taken from "Discourses Vol. III"

Joe Stewart  V128FR9Y@UBVMS

"It is only Divine Love that ever matters and nothing more" 
Meher Baba
From: bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:43:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.183041.20826
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 26026@qiclab.scn.rain.com, bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak) writes:
>>Are there any genuinely enlightened beings on the planet? Who and where
>>are they?
>>
>>Please, reply directly as well as post.
>
>From sanders@iitmax.iit.edu Wed Aug 19 18:16:17 1992
>Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 20:12:08 -0600
>From: Greg Sanders <sanders@iitmax.iit.edu>
>To: bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM
>Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
>
>What's a genuinely enlightened being?  No one can answer your question
>unless you can tell us what you mean.


I agree I was too vague. 

I'm really posting for my guru. He is supposed to find me after all. I
wonder if he reads this group!

I don't like my Buddhas dead. There should be at least one real one on
the planet. Many claim to be fully enlightened. Perhaps one that claims
to be really is. 

I'll settle for postings on any beings with flaming golden crown chakras
(in the perception of the poster).

--
bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Proper understandings and renunciation
Organization: ----
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:14:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.050421.14593@cco.caltech.edu> kish@dartagnan.rutgers.edu (Bill Kish) writes:
[discourse on practicing the Middle Way]
>

excellent post. first of all i think what you describe is
indeed the Middle Way. I've been reading David Kalupahana's
translation of the Mulamadhyamakakarika and I've benefitted
from his attempt to portray Nagarjuna as a brilliant reformulator
of "higher" dharma but not a "second" Buddha. Although
i think the term second Buddha would be OK for him :-)
But David's presentation helps quiet all the shouting
about {maha,hina,vajra}yana (just study Nagarjuna, simple :-)
or just study Longchenpa, the second Nagarjuna.

quick questions:
is it possible to become attached to Buddha Nature?
is it advisable to renounce nonduality?

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org

Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: adobe!usenet@uunet.UU.NET (USENET NEWS)
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:08:59 GMT

| Hi, Kristian. Have you heard of...

		   -bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)

I don't get it. Kristian asks the question, then answers it???

						-Alan
From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The Meaning of Soul
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:20:16 GMT
Organization: ----


Pat Monardo writes:

...when i try to understand the appeal of a soul,
the image comes to mind of a tombstone that
survives the destruction of planets, universes, etc.
if i have a soul, it is probably bored silly
and very jealous of me! it probably knows only one
color (white) and i know at least 16.7 Million.


Your comment here may be tongue in cheek, but since you think so
creatively and imaginatively, I will treat it seriously: 

Pity to have such limited and debased referents for what is still
a relatively useful term.  As words are abused, they loose their
value.  But the word "soul" is still a pretty useful word with
meaningful referential value for large numbers of thinkers past
and present.

An example:

"There is a silence greater than any know
To earth's dumb spirit, motionless in the soul
That has become eternity's foothold,
Touched by Infinitudes for ever."

         Letters of Sri Aurobindo (On Poetry and Literature)


If someday you have an impulse to clean up this particular
term/concept, I would suggest this:

Drop the thought of personality as divorced from soul, and drop
the thought of soul as something you possess--a kind of obscure
balloon on a string tethered to your earthly form.

Visualize the soul as the consciousness principle, core of self--
the innermost source of intelligence, love, beauty, order, and
action, etc.

Reverse the "bored" attribute--give it the wonder of child-like
delight, the delicious intensity spirited adventure.

The color and white part is also a backwards concept.  Its like
this:

I have seen a flame, who's colors never die.
A fire that lights and burns, but touches not the life.
A flame who's mystery and mission we seek.
The very life and soul of you and I.

----------------------

The "survives destruction of planets, universes," is the part you
got right:


"Men, events, and death do not dismay me.  Worlds mean nothing to
me.  Removed from this earth, dead, I shall expect new planets as
footholds for my forces. I shall not be disappointed. 
 
I look into myself, and if I find in me any goodness, 
any nobleness, any love, any upleaping ambition to create, 
I laugh, for these things are fragments  of supernatural radium,
of everlasting outpouring power. 
 
I have taken this power...as my own.  I have stripped all the
rags and trappings of heathenism from it.  I have discovered its
shattering stellar beauty.  I have found out it is what men
call---God." 
  
           THE CREED OF POWER, Frank Crane 

 

--                    
INTERNET:  jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdavis
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: needed: translation of Tara mantra.
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:08:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug18.000258.20397
Organization: ----

does anyone know the literal meaning of the words of the 
Tara mantra: OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SOHA?

many thanks for any info.

   ando
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: plains!sivaram@uunet.UU.NET (Sivaram Hariharan )
Subject: Shaivism & Vishnavism in Hindu Religion
Organization: ----
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:26:45 GMT


The three chief dieties in the Hindu pantheon are Brahma,(creator) 
Vishnu(protecter) and Shiva(destructor). Tales and legends of this
trinity abound in the Hindu Puranas.

According to the Hindu Vedantic doctrine, there is only one God(Brahman)
who is an infinite mass of knowledge. Brahman is existance himself and
the rest are just his manifestations. 

There seems to be a conflict between the Puranas, which recognizes
a multitude of dieties and the trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
being the chief dieties, and the Vedanta, which preaches the existance
of only one God, the Supreme creator.

This apparent conflict is resolved by the Brahma-Sutras. In the Vedas,
there is reference to Vishnu and Maha-vishnu. Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva
are considered as mere dieties, who themselves are not individuals, but
are the name of the offices they occupy . 
For example, the diety Indra is not the 
name of the diety, but the name of the Office of the King of the Gods. 
Maha-Vishnu is Brahman himself. 

The Sutras refer to the cyclic nature of the universe, in which the
Universe undergoes constant cycle of creation and dissolution(Pralaya).
There are two kinds of dissolution, the mini-dissolution(Pralaya) and
the Super-dissolution(Maha-Pralaya). In the mini-dissolution, everything
is destroyed, except the offices of Brahma Vishnu and Shiva and the
godly souls occupying these offices remain the same(The Brahma-Sutras
consider even the dieties to have souls and even these dieties 
are ever trying to attain Moksha or the final liberation and be 
merged into Brahman or Maha-Vishnu).

In the Super-Dissolution, even the offices of Brahma, Vishnu and
Shiva are destroyed and nothing exists except this infinite mass
of knowledge called Brahman. This Brahman is formless and is
incomprehendable by the sense organs and one can call it by any 
name........Maha-Vishnu, Allah or God etc. etc. .
After the Super-dissolution new souls occupy the offices of
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

Each diety in Hinduism has a specific property and gives its
devotee a desired effect. For example, the elephant-headed
God, Ganesh is invoked for education and to mark the beginning
of every good deed so that the deed is completed without any
hassles. Brahman manifests to the devotee in the form of
these dieties. As one pictures Brahman in his mind, so does
Brahman appear to him(Brahma-Sutras). The Sutras also ask
the devotee to combine the various similar properties of
the dieties and pray but prohibits the combining of opposite
properties. For example, one should not pray to Agni(fire)
and Varuna(Water) the same time.

More on these later...

Sivaram
Tat Tvam Asi(Thou art that)
From: plains!sivaram@uunet.UU.NET (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Modes of worship in Hinduism
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:44:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.182440.20310
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

There are two forms of worshipping Brahman or the Supreme Lord
according to the Hindu Scriptures. This is based on how the
devotee visualizes Brahman.

Brahman can be visualised as Saguna Brahman( an anthrophomorphic
view), wherein the Lord is given a form of an idol in the image
of man, endowed with humanistic qualities of goodness, truth, the
destroyer of evil etc. etc. Acording to the Sutras, the knower
of Saguna Brahman attains liberation or Moksha by "Devayana" or the
path of the Gods. Though the Sutras define liberation as an _all or
none_ state, the path taken by the soul of the knower of Saguna
Brahman to the final stage is an indirect one.

Nirguna Brahman(Brahman without any qualities) is one in which
Brahman is formless and one infinite mass of intelligence and
knowledge and who is existance himself and who is beyond all
virtues and evils, beyond all human values. Adi-Sankara's
school lay emphasis on the worship of Nirguna Brahman. For the
knower of Niguna Brahman, the Sutras say that the final
liberation is immediate. 

Idol worship in Hinduism is just the worship of Saguna Brahman.
According to the Vedantas, as one visualises Brahman, so does
he appear. Each diety in Hinduism is a granter of certain
benefeciary effects on its worshipper. For example, on
worshipping Brahman as diety A, the benefeciary effects are X.
On worshipping Brahman as diety B, the benefeciary effects are Y
and so on. Always, similar benefits should be combined in
Upasana or Worhip. Combination of opposite effects results in
nullifying of the Upasana. 
More on this later.
sivaram
tat tvam asi
From: adobe!usenet@uunet.UU.NET (USENET NEWS)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:34:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.182723.20581
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

| Are there any genuinely enlightened beings on the planet? 
| Who and where are they?
			   -Kristian Skrinak

Whose judgment are we to take on this question? There are people 
who BELIEVE they are enlightened, and who others may believe in.
But how are we to judge? If the lower cannot see the higher, how
would we recognize a conscious being if we met him in the street?
Would he "act like" Buddha, or like Christ? Would we feel a
tingling in our foreheads whenever he was near? Would we take
the word of other people "in the know"? Some people thought
Gurdjieff was a madman; others thought him a saint. Who was
right?
	-Alan
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Enlightened Beings
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:18:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug19.081948.26026
Organization: Sun Microsystems

Are there any genuinely enlightened beings on the planet? Who and where
are they?

Please, reply directly as well as post.

--
bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak)
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: All is perfect ?
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:38:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.181649.19709
Organization: AT&T

Wong Weng Fai writes:


> 	"so you see, all is perfect just as it is ...
> 	 by the way, watch it, you shadow is about to pollute mine."


	It's better not to confuse between the words of realized masters
		
				and
				
		religious practices by a group of people.
		
		

---raj
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:37:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.183554.21166
Organization: AT&T

Kristian writes:

> Are there any genuinely enlightened beings on the planet? Who and where
> are they?


	First, there is no such thing as "fake enlightenment."
	
	Now, there are several answers to the question;
	     [please choose none, one or all; choosing none or all is
	      better, as they both mean the same].
	
	
	+ Everybody everywhere.
	
	+ Nobody anywhere.
	
	+ The last two are really the same answer.
	
	+ The Heart of Kristian.
	
	
---raj
From: adobe!usenet@uunet.UU.NET (USENET NEWS)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: In the beginning...
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:43:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug19.081810.25910
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

| ...remembrance of our totality means we remember that every 
| being has the knowledge it takes to move beyond suffering. 
| They choose not to exercize that knowledge. And in that sense,
| suffering certainly is an illusion.
					-Lorenzo  

People CHOOSE not to exercise that knowledge? Forgive me for
sounding inflammatory, but how is this different from saying of
the homeless, "It's their own fault. They're too lazy to work."
It seems to me that talking about "choice" in this context only 
clothes a basically judgmental attitude in philosophical garb.

When I see some poor, unfortunate soul sitting huddled in a
doorway, I shudder. I think (no, I acutely FEEL), "There, but
for fortune, go I." Choice has nothing to do with it! Except
possibly the choice to search for Meaning. Perhaps that is
a choice. But finding the answers? Once again, things are
out of our hands.

We may imagine that we are dwelling on Mt. Olympus, looking down 
on the ignorant masses. But, Ouspensky put it, "We may be having a 
higher type of dream, but we are still asleep in the same bed."

| But this remembrance also means that feeding my fellow being 
| is the same as feeding myself.

Well said.

| Perhaps saying everything is perfect is the wrong way to say it.  
| Everything just IS, and doesn't really care whether we think it 
| is perfect or shitty.  

Yes, this is true. But WE can care, possibly MUST care in order
to fulfill our destiny as human beings. What does it mean to
BE HUMAN? Isn't this the question?

			-Alan
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: reincarnation in multiple bodies?
Organization: ----
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:08:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.171418.15105@cco.caltech.edu> jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) writes:
>Earlier I wrote:
>mentioned it, this is all IMO, Im not just blindly quoting
>from books Ive read, a brain-washed follower of religious
>teaching like you seem to imply). 

i didnt mean to say you were brain-washed, i meant to
criticize, true, but not attack. in fact i was referring to
myself being brain-washed. Mahayana sutras often open with
a "miracle" in which the mundane becomes overwhelmed by the
"spiritual" and, yes, i enjoy it. i simply recognized that
the priest preaching Divine Grace was in fact preaching Miracles.
since i wanted more and that was pretty much all he had to offer,
i was a bit disappointed.

>Look at all the stuff thats going on in the world. Almost

noise mostly. i dont read the Nikayas much, but what stuck with
me was a person telling the crowd of people he was with
to be quiet because Gautama prefers quiet and if we are
quiet he might speak with us.

>
>As for the part about the soul almost always reincarnating
>as the same sex, this is my belief based on what my teacher,
>Sri Chinmoy, has said about this. I know that a lot of these

i dont believe a soul reincarnates in either sex.
when i try to understand the appeal of a soul,
the image comes to mind of a tombstone that
survives the destruction of planets, universes, etc.
if i have a soul, it is probably bored silly
and very jealous of me! it probably knows only one
color (white) and i know at least 16.7 Million.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
From: mcfarlan@corona.math.washington.edu (Thomas J. McFarlane)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:32:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug20.182412.20224
Organization: University of Washington, Mathematics, Seattle

(Kristian Skrinak) writes:
>Are there any genuinely enlightened beings on the planet? Who and where
>are they?
>
This question presupposes an understanding or at least a criterion for
determining who or what an enlightened being is.  It might be the topic
for an interesting discussion.

For example: 

Some people might say that we are all genuinely enlightened but just 
don't realize it.  Others may say that realizing it *is* enlightenment.

Some people have made the distinction between full enlightenment and mere 
liberation.  

I have heard of so-called "idiots of God" who are self-realized
but pretty much useless as teachers.  On the other hand, I have also heard 
of excellent and powerful teachers who are nonetheless not self-realized yet.

If you met a man who drinks and smokes and eats red meat and has sex, would
you say he could not be enlightened?  Why or why not?
 
What do people think about this?  What does it mean to be enlightened?
Can we ever know whether or not someone else is really enlightened?
If not, how can we at least build up a strong confidence?
To return to the original question, are there any people alive now
that fit your criteria?  Who and where are they?  What are your criteria
and how do they fit them?

-Tom
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams)
Subject: Re: MCP ?
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:16:01 GMT

Wong Weng Fai (wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp) wrote:
: Hi,
: 
: Joe Stewart quotes MEHER BABA  taken from "Discourses Vol. III"...
: 
: >As a rule, men excel in qualities of the head and will.  They are
: >capable of sound judgment and steadfast purpose.  As a rule,
: >women excel in qualities of the heart.  They are capable of
: >intense love which makes them welcome any sacrifice for the loved
: >one.  ...
: 
: 	Hmmm ... isn't this sexist and stereotypical ? Being a male, I can

Yep, sure is. If this is an example of Meher Baba's 'wisdom' then I would
take any other pronouncements of his with a sackful of salt. He sounds like
a very average intelligence.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Williams                  ACSnet : ron@syacus.acus.oz
Ph : +61 2 390-1366         Internet : ron@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
Fax: +61 2 390-1391             UUCP : uunet!munnari!syacus.acus.oz.au!ron
Standard Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: tucker@maestro.mitre.org (William Tucker)
Subject: Re:In the beginning...
Keywords: Re:In the beginning...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:53:09 GMT

You Lorenzo said:
 Pity and
 guilt are useless emotions.  They are very good for controlling
 some people, but have very little to do with love and compassion.
 My spiritual practice is to endeavor to put smiles on the faces of
 all those I see, and those I don't see, starting with me.
 :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
 Yours in happy endeavor,
 	Lorenzo 

I William say:

 Yay buddy, verily so................thanks.


Wm T.
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern