HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!
Date: 24 Aug 92 23:09:18 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Aug24.061613.3246@ducvax.auburn.edu>, kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim) writes:
> 
> Good motivation to improve Taiwan. Sometimes hatred helps to get good restult.
> Not bad to work hard so that Korea can keel down to the chinese.
> I wish that your dream come true someday truely. To do that
> You may need to develope lots of new tech. and new theoriese and new way of
> production systems. All these R&D may help whole world.
> 


From my past experience dealing with the S. Koreans, it seems that there
is always a sense of self pomposity in them. This kind of self pomposity
helped the Koreans gain some economic benefit, but did not improve the
cultural aspects in their life. You can see them renting Chinese (mostly
Hong Kong and Taiwanese) movies to fill their blank in the everyday life.
For this, Korean can not just bury their heads in the sand lying that their
culture is totally irrelevant to the Chinese culture. For the same reason
above, they even claim that Korean culture breeds the Chinese culture, 
Confucius is Korean, ....., etc. And in their map, ROC does not exist.

The scenario may be explained by the trade competition between these two
countries. But what does it take to make this whole state to deceit 
themselves up to this degree?


> HOWEVER THE DISTORTED MAY MIND HURT YOUR HEALTH. BE CALM AND COOL,PLEASE, FOR
> YOUR FAMILY AND WIFE IF YOU ARE MARRIER, IF NOT, JUST FOR YOUR HEALTHY AND
> BLESSING LIFE.

Interesting enougn, you can find most Korean males are also heavy smokers.
And one more thing, most of the male Koreans wear sneakers in a different
way than usual. The rear part of sneakers are always treaded flat.

-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:45:41 GMT


In article <1992Sep2.163358.9471@engage.pko.dec.com>, li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes...
>Recently an organization called "WSR for Taiwan Independence Association" 
>has been formed in Taipei. Most members are the 2nd generation of Mainland 
>Chinese, they called themseleves as "1st generation of Taiwanese". 
>Interesting development!
> 
>Everyone in Taiwan has rights for his/her political beliefs, e.g., TI, 
>reunification, ROC, ROT, capitalism, socialism, etc. There are all possible 
>options. But Taiwan security and people interest should come first, after 
>all, we are all on the same boat.

Bravo!

>I am optimistic about Taiwan. 

Ditto!
From: stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: How to kill dragons
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:39:13 GMT
Organization: UB

There is an old Chinese saying:  It is not necessary to kill chickens using
                                 a butcher knife.
 
And there is a modern joke of Graduate schools as following:
 
Graduate students:  What should we learn now?
Advisor:            You should know how to  kill dragons!!
Graduate students:  But there is no dragon any more in the world.
Advisor:            Well, anyway, you  still can teach someone else how to kill
                    dragons someday.

---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   
      Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo
      Disclaimer: " Not my story! "
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The future of Taiwan (Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...)
Date: 30 Aug 92 17:33:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <78680@ut-emx.uucp>, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes...
>In article <1992Aug28.010933.14252@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>>I hope not. 
>>
>>Let's be fair, without the effort of some DPP's members in the early 80s, 
>>People on Taiwan probably still live under political repression which 
>>happened during 60s and 70s.
> 
>I do agree that the DPP had a useful role to catalyzing some of the
>changes on Taiwan.  The trouble is that now that most of the political
>repression is gone, DPP seems to have a bit of an identity crisis.
> 
>DPP can decide to be the "party of opposition to KMT" or it can decide
>to be the "party of Taiwan Independence."  The trouble with being the
>"party of Taiwan Independence" is that it loses a lot of support from
>"pro-China" people who would like to see a healthy opposition party in
>Taiwan.  Unfortunately, DPP seems to have chosen to this and is
>attacking the KMT where it is strongest (the Taiwan/China issue),
>rather than focusing its attack on areas where KMT is weak (the
>environment for example).
> 
>This is rather unfortunate since two-party political systems tend to
>be more open and healthier than one-party domainant political systems.

I think most people in Taiwan only care about how to keep making more
money and maintaining a good relationship with other people so that
life will be easier and easier and all troubles  will be eliminated
easily. Forget about Taiwan/China issue. That dosn't feed no body.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen)
Subject: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:30:33 EDT
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Currently, the debate on S Korea switched the diplomatic relation from
ROC to PRC is very hot. There are many emotional articles here. This 
reminds me an article one year ago. At that time, ROC started a new policy
trying to gain a dual diplomatic relationship with some small countries.
The Foreign Minister of PRC, Mr Qian Qishen, received a visit of Liao/ Wang\ 
(Outlook?) reporter about his opinion on ROC's new policy. Mr Qian 
said, it is not good for both sides to have a diplomatic war. Only those 
small countries can gain money and others benefits from the competition between 
PRC and ROC. But if ROC government wants to start the diplomatic war, I 
have the power to cut off the major diplomatic relations ROC has, including 
S Korea and S Africa.

This year, ROC government got some diplomatic relationships with small
countries by giving them a huge amount of money. I believe this made 
the Foreign Minister really unhappy and he did what he said one year
ago. I wish ROC government can be wise and do not make any aggresive
move. Otherwise, some of netters will cry again and say "a long time loyal
friend" S. Africa betray them. Probably, all of the dirty words today against 
S. Korea will be used for S. Africa.

	May God bless all of Chinese.


J Chen
Department of Chemistry
University of Michigan
From: chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Quote of the day
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:25:07 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

[Read it from a local newspaper]

A director, Peter Wang (any idea who he is?), on his teen years in Taiwan:

"James Dean was exceptional to us. Asian boys don't have to be Rock Hudson
to imitate him. He has style, he was cool, he smoked, he didn't speak
English very clearly, and on top of everything he was short."

It is unfortunate that Mr. Wang willing fell into western stereotyping
trap and putting forward such a clown-like image (ugly, short, with
speech impediment) about "Asian boys"...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He)
Subject: Re: TI
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:10:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.163629.1296@bradford.ac.uk> H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
>elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) wrote:
>
>    In article <1992Aug27.171038.8569@bradford.ac.uk> 
>    H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
>   >
>   >Suggestions: How to Ensure  Taiwan's Independance (TI)?
>   >
>   >
>   >1)  Draw out all the hard currence to buy weapons. Tell ...
>   >
>   >2)  Strict control over minorities in Taiwan. Prevent them ...
>   >
>   >3)  Win international support. Ask those African countries ...
>   >
>   >4)  Assassinate those mainlander or taiwanese politicians ...
>   >
>   >5)  Forget PRC. Have a nice sleep. Tomorrow'll be another 
>   >    day! 
>   >
>   > 
>   > --August 1992, in a very exited mood, night before heavy sh*t fall.
>
>   It was possible to have Taiwan to be independent.  But, the governemnt
>   in Taiwan missed the opportunity.  Somehow, politically, economically,
>   it is quite difficult to do so now.  But, it may be getting easier in
>   the future.  Things are changing.  Regards.
>
>Anyone interested in the ORIGINAL posting please e-mail to me
>for a complete copy.
>
>Copyright reserved by the author.  No one has the right 
>to cite the posting without author's permission.
>
>Hongwen Wang
>H.Wang@uk.ac.bradford

Q: Is bullsh*t copyrightable?
A: Definitely.
From: eaeu228@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steven Wei Wu)
Subject: Re: a joke,just a joke
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:04:56 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <cyen.715170592@ponder> Jesse writes:
>If you are a Korean, please replace Hyundai with Feeling 101.
>One of my American friends told me this joke:
>
>     One day a police arrested a driver and accused him of intending 
>     to murder because of overspeeding to 160 mph. The murderous tool
>     is a Hyundai Excel.
>     In adjudgement,a Hyundai technician was called to test the car.
>     At last the driver was announced innocent, because that technician
>     said, "It's impossible for a Hyundai to run that fast."
>
>Just a joke, don't take it serious.
>
>Jesse

Here is another joke about Hyundai, and please, don't be serious, because
it ain't my e-mail account, I won't see any complaints.

     One day, a guy was driving a Hyundai, but unfortunately he hit a 
     squirrel. He got out and felt sorry for the poor squirrel. But to
     his amuzement that he found that the squirrel was ok, but his Hyundai
     was dented.

Enjoy, ginseng bro's.

Roger.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: Language
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 437-3031            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:12:13 GMT

In article <Btv66F.C14@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Yun-Liang Soo) writes:
=
=It seems to me that there were no simple words like those for colors and 
=numbers in the abriginal Fujen language if H"ol"o is indeed a hybrid of
=ancient Han and abriginal language.  Your model is quite interesting. But
=, is it the only model of the evolution of H"ol"o? I read from other sources
=that the abriginal words in your list are actually from ancient Han dialect
=which have been lost in other modern Han dialects.
=
=The other question is "Are family names of H"ol"o people all fake?" With
=family books many H"ol"o people can trace their ancestors back to a big
=immigrant wave from Honan in Tang Dynasty led by a man called Wang sen zhi.
=
=I read from history textbook of Cheng Kung Univ. that in Han Dynasty all
=abriginal people of Fujen(Min Yue) were forced to move to the "Long River" vicinities
=after being defeated by the abriginal people of Jejiang( O Yue), who were
=supported by the Han empire and left an empty Fujen for the Han settlers to 
=take over later.
=
=I believe intermarriage is a very natural process. But are Mandarine people
=purer than H"ol"o people?

First, do not be fooled by those neeters "I  said...".   Remember
they  were only expressing their own opinion of the origin of the
HoLo language.

There has a lot of arguments of the origin of both HaGa and HoLo.
One  thing  we are sure is they both migrated from north.  We all
know the history of HaGa. So I am not going to repeat it here.

As to HoLo, one theory of that is, Why they are  called  HoLo  or
call themselve HoLo?

Ho in HanZi is river and in ancient Han the only  river  we  call
'river' is yellow river.

Lo in HanZi is also a river name, but in ancient Han  people  did
not call it a river, instead they call it 'water'.

So, Ho is Huan-Ho(Yellow river) and Lo is Lo-Sway(Lo water).

Now if netters check your memory of the map of  Mainland  to  see
where  is the area of HoLo. It is exactly where the Han civiliza-
tion originated.

HoLo means 'the people from HoLo',

If netters wanner know more about HoLo and HaGa, I  can  dig  out
all my reference. This is real 'culture' subject. :-)

PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
e), which is water in Hanzi.
Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
degrade the oppressor.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: clist@ESF.suny.edu (Charles List)
Subject: Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!
Reply-To: clist@SFS.suny.edu
Organization: Suny SFS
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 22:53:00 EDT

In article <1992Aug24.090449.18520@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:

>  1.  if korean government gives the roc embassy to proc, and ignor
>      the damages on roc government.  we legally have the right to ask
>      something paying for the demages.  so, the korean government's
>      embassy is the most suitable property of korean government that
>      roc government can take over.  from the bussiness point of view,
>      north korea government should be interesting in having such building
>      as their trading center in taipei.  then, from logic movement, roc
>      government should sell this building to north korean government.
>      and get the money for the damages made by korean government.
>
>  2.  if korean government purchases the embassy from roc government and
>      sends it to proc.  roc government should purchases the korean
>      embassy as well.  then, how we deal with the building is not the
>      korean government's bussiness.  we should still sell it to north
>      korean government as their business center.  by this way, we can
>      gain the real profit for our economics.
>
>  3.  both actions that i said above are basing on one most logic principle
>      in this world.  treat others as others treat you.  if the roc embassy
>      will become the proc embassy,  the korean embassy should become
>      north korean trading center.  this is equlity, not emotion.
>
>if you feel uneasy, that is you who are emotional.
>
>cs shao.
>

 There is a little difference between these two embassies.  
ROC embassy in Seoul was originally given to Ching about 100 years ago, so
PRC also can claim the ownership. ROK embassy in Taipei was puchased by ROK, 
so DPRK has nothing to do with it.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Re: a Korean view on recent diplomatic development.
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:32:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.191227.18783@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang) writes:
>In article <78774@ut-emx.uucp> btlee@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Anitesh Barua) writes:
>
>>
>>Many friends from Taiwan accused korean government not to give much proparation time for taiwan government. For me, this accusation also seems groundless.
>
>I think the main reason for such anti-ROK sentiment is:
>
>Given the many options ROK government has, why did President Roh took
>the one that hurt ROC most? We feel Roh is sucking up to mainland
>CCP regime.
>
I read an article on a Korean newpaper saying that they did not have choice
of maintaining relationship with ROC. He(The president Roh) had choose 
between PRC and ROC and, for whatever reasons he had, he droped your
government.

>And for argument such as 'ROK is very NICE that it delayed the normalization
>of diplomatic relationship with PRC for sooooooo long.' It sounds like
>Mainland China has been soooooo eager to establish diplomacy with ROK.
>The fact is, mainland China has been reluctant to do so until rycently.
On what basis did you claim that PRC government has been reluctant to 
establish relationship with ROK until recently is fact?
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:14 PDT
Subject: Re: CQ CQ CQ
Nf-ID: #R:ut-emx.uucp:78670:cdp:1474900018:000:258
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Aug 30 03:14:00 1992


de DL5MDA

hi KB5SJN, I am a German and as such "grounded" in Korea. Also not QRV since
several years. So I now end up having my QSOs via data networks :-)

I even found some QRM on the line, that makes everything more realistic.

73, Goetz
Seoul 1992/08/30
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Yun-Liang Soo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug30.230459.2115@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes...
> 
>___________|__________colloquial_vocab____|___academic_reading___|
>Word         original H"ol"o     Jin         Song
>"male"        [=da-bo]([=ja])                [/lam]
>"female"      [=ja\vo]                       [\lu]
>"husband"     [-ang]                         [-qong]
>"wife"        [\vo]                          [-ce]
>"three"                        [-sna]        [-san]
>"eight"                        [,bue]        [,bal]
>"mountain"                     [-snua]       [-san]
>"open"                         [-kui]        [-kai]
>"flower"                       [-hue]        [-hua]
>"person"      [/lang]                        [/lin]([/zin])
>"flow"                         [/lau]        [/liu]
>"white"                        ['be]         [,bieg]
>"snow"                         [,se]         [,sual]
>"rain"        [=ho]                          [\u]
>"red"                          [/ang]        [/hong]
>"kill"        [/tai]                         [,sal]
>"beat, hit"   [,pa]                          [\da]
> 
> 

It seems to me that there were no simple words like those for colors and 
numbers in the abriginal Fujen language if H"ol"o is indeed a hybrid of
ancient Han and abriginal language.  Your model is quite interesting. But
, is it the only model of the evolution of H"ol"o? I read from other sources
that the abriginal words in your list are actually from ancient Han dialect
which have been lost in other modern Han dialects.

The other question is "Are family names of H"ol"o people all fake?" With
family books many H"ol"o people can trace their ancestors back to a big
immigrant wave from Honan in Tang Dynasty led by a man called Wang sen zhi.

I read from history textbook of Cheng Kung Univ. that in Han Dynasty all
abriginal people of Fujen(Min Yue) were forced to move to the "Long River" vicinities
after being defeated by the abriginal people of Jejiang( O Yue), who were
supported by the Han empire and left an empty Fujen for the Han settlers to 
take over later.

I believe intermarriage is a very natural process. But are Mandarine people
purer than H"ol"o people?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG)
Subject: Re: the embassies
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:30:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.224834.9474@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>So, if *I* build a house in Alaska.  I do nothing with it.  I die.  After
>ten years, Alaska declares independence from the United States.  My son
>doesn't get to own that house in Alaska?

this is correct idea.  the son still have the right to inherite the building.
this also implys that if you are still alive, your son can not inherite the
building.  by the same logic, the roc government is not dead, so the building
should still be the property of roc government.  this should not relate with
the political relation.

however, our discussions are meaningless here.  i just read that the rok
government rent the land to build the embassy.  and the rok government still
does not pay this year's payment (about 2 million nt dollars) to the owner
of the land.  so, from any aspect that two embassies are different.

>Hmmm.  I love that statement above.  I can't agree with your statement.
>Therefore, the Soviet Union is the evil empire.  Where have we seen that kind
>of logic before?

the basic course of logic.  if it is not true, it is false; by the excluded
middle law. 8)

cs shao.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: sht@leland.Stanford.EDU (Hsien-Tang Sun)
Subject: Re: F16 to Taiwan
Keywords: F16
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 06:32:19 GMT


>In article <1992Sep02.215310.8526@jho.com> john@jho.com (John Ho) writes:
>
>It is now official.  President Bush was in my backyard Ft. Worth this
>afternoon to announce he authorized to sell Taiwan 150 F-16 which
>worth more than $4 billion dollars and it saved 3000 jobs in
>Texas. 
>
  

  I am quite happy to hear this news. But I am afraid that Bush would sell

  old fashioned F16-A/B instead of the most advanced F16-C/D to Taiwan. 

  
  Taiwan government need more excellent fighters.


  H.T. Sun
From: mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: old Her[4] and Christine
Date: 2 Sep 1992 15:55:50 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep2.012328.7757@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang) writes:
> OK, let me get this straight: I wrote a long paper this qaurter about TW
>arousing discussions on TI in the class.  I'm just curious about the following
>statement in the whole TI idea: why "mainlanders" should be kicked out of the
>island after TI?
>.  Both of my parents are "mainlanders", coming to TW
>around 1949, so I am surely a "pure mainlander".  Am I?  I was born in TW and
>had lived there for over 20 years.  Shouldn't I be a Taiwanese?  I love TW and
>have no feeling for the Mainland China, so how can I be regarded as a
>mainlander (or ex-provine)?

>--Christine

Christine,

	My name is Mitch Yang and I am a Taiwan Independence advocator.

	Many friends of mine who are also TI advocators have exactly the
	same background with you.  Both of their parents are from China and
	themselves born in Taiwan.   Mr. Her[4] Duan-Fen is one of them.
	When people ask old Her[4], "Ni[3] Shi[4] Nar[3] Li[3] Ren[2] ?
	(Or 'Where are you from ?') ",  he always responds with. "Wuo[3]
	Shi[4] Hua[1] Lien[2] Ren[2] (or 'I am from Hua-Lien.')"  As you
	might have known, Hua-Lien is a county in Taiwan's east coast. It
	was where old Her[4] was born and raised.  Old Her[4] not just 
	considers himself Taiwanese. He also assumes that other people 
	should identify him as Taiwanese.  Yes, you are Taiwanese as 
	long as you consider yourself one and recognize Taiwan as your
	homeland.

	As for the idea of "kicking out WSR after TI succeeds",  I haven't
	met any TI advocator who ever have any idea remotely close to that.
	After all, if that is part of TI, why do you think old Her[4] and
	many 1st generation Taiwanese like you keep joining the movement ?
	It is just another lie from our great government's propaganda tools.

	Come. Come join us !   Be part of the solution, not the problem.