HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Alpha Documentation...
Date: 23 Nov 92 09:46:38 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <1992Nov21.033342.12422@fcom.cc.utah.edu>, phil@news.ccutah.edu (Phillip Neiswanger) writes:
|> Just wondering how much nitty gritty hardware documentation is currently
|> available for any of the Alpha workstations.

Oh, come on!  These things were only officially released a week or so
ago.  We still can't get that sort of stuff for our DECstation
5000/25s...
--
Robin (come back John Drummond) Fairbairns       rf@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge  CB2 3QG, UK
"They had twelve years to lay in wait for us" - Bush supporter on Nov 4
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6098 comp.unix.ultrix:8442
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: DEC Alpha OSF/1 cc question
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:04:01 GMT

In article <2B0C84BD.11280@news.service.uci.edu> I wrote:
>
>I'm trying to find a list of what symbols are predefined by the cc compiler
>on a DEC Alpha system running OSF/1.  I looked in the man pages and the
>only one I saw mentioned was "unix";  I even looked thru the outpu of 
>strings on parts of the cc binaries but I didn't find anything useful.
>Any help would be appreciated.

Again, several people have said using cc -v gives you the predefined
symbols.  It does, thanks to everyone who responded!


Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
From: dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller)
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:15:22 EST
Organization: C&CS, Deakin University

>From: dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.)
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
>Subject: DEC Support?
>Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:34:48 GMT

>I always thought that Digital "I wanna be IBM in the 90s" Equipment
>Corp always justified their outrageously high prices with their
>support.  

So, DEC have not merely high prices , but "outrageously high" prices.  This
is demonstrably not true, as DEC's sales volume remains healthy.

> However, it seems that DEC isn't the slightest bit
>interested in their customers.  I sight several things:
                                   ^^^^^
                                   cite?

>First, the technical sales line (800-DIGITAL) sometimes cannot even
>tell me what parts I can use with my machine.

If DEC have trouble giving you information "sometimes" it doesn't follow
that they aren't "the slightest bit interested in their customers".  

You are undermining your own credibility with hyperbole.

>DEC "support" will not even talk to you unless you have one of their
>outrageously priced service contracts.  

More "outrageous prices" --- care to justify these assertions?

And, why do you apparently expect DEC to provide you with service for
nothing?  They are a business, not a charity.

> Besides, I thought the high
>equipment prices went to pay for support...

If you think any vendor nowadays has any margin left on hardware sales that
they can use to subsidise other parts of their business, then you have been
asleep for the last five years.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6106 comp.unix.shell:4825 comp.unix.ultrix:8462
From: frank@croton.nyo.dec.com (Frank Wortner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: tcsh on DEC OSF/1 Alpha
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:13:49 GMT
Reply-To: frank@nyo.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Available as pub/DEC/Alpha/apps/tcsh-6.02.tar.Z.

						Frank
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: DECstation 5000/33
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:12:57 GMT


What is that plug that looks like a phone jack in the back for?


--
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)
Subject: Re: Alt key on my DECstation
Reply-To: beck@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:40:13 GMT


Hi,

the problem is known and is simply to explain: The keys nearer to the
space bar (the Alt keys) are new to this keyboard at all, as the other
two (the mode_switch keys, NOT Compose ones) are too.
In the normal setup, the modifier mapping is bogus, coze the Alt keys
are mapped to mod2 and the modifieres to mod1, giving the problem of
most apps thinking the mods are the alts and the alts are for hell...

I run:

keycode 113 = Escape F11
keycode 90  = Break F5
clear mod1
clear mod2
add mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R
add mod2 = Mode_switch

through xmodmap and than i have:

Two real alt keys
Two keys that keep their function as mode switches. Decwrite beeps on
    them, but you can use them still for the extra chars.
A compose key by pressing Alt Space as on the older keyboards.

Hope this helps you (as you see, also a physical ESC key is set onto F11)

--
,------------------------+---------------------------------------------.
| Andre' Beck (ABPSoft)  |   TCP/IP-Mail: beck@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de |
| HG R 142               |   VMS        : hermes::beck                 |
+------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
|       Windows is the best placebo against MS-DOOF headaches !        |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------'

Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten)
Subject: Re: DECcampus in Norway/Europe 
Reply-To: marten@ilt.fhg.de
Organization: FhG-ILT
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 07:38:32 GMT


Below the conditions for DECcampus in Germany:


New systems, to pay once:

System type                    Price

workstation <= 2 user            600,-- DM
    dto.    >  2 user          5.100,-- DM

VAX 3xxx,4000-200
DECsystem 3100-5000/200       12.000,-- DM

VAX 4000-300, DECsystem
5400/5500, DECsystem 58xx     20.100,-- DM

VAX 6000-xxx 1 CPU            38.100,-- DM
    additional CPU            15.000,-- DM

VAX 9000-xxx 1 CPU            95.100,-- DM        
    additional CPU            15.000,-- DM

Software update licence:

System type                    Price, per year    for lifetime

workstation <= 2 user             80,-- DM           300,-- DM        
    dto.    >  2 user            615,-- DM         2.550,-- DM   

VAX 3xxx,4000-200
DECsystem 3100-5000/200        1.440,-- DM         6.000,-- DM

VAX 4000-300, DECsystem
5400/5500, DECsystem 58xx      2.410,-- DM        10.050,-- DM

VAX 6000-xxx 1 CPU             4.570,-- DM        19.050,-- DM
    additional CPU             1.800,-- DM         7.500,-- DM

VAX 9000-xxx 1 CPU            11.410,-- DM        47.550,-- DM
    additional CPU             1.800,-- DM         7.500,-- DM


Phone support per year:

# systems

1-15                          7.000,-- DM

16-30                        12.500,-- DM

31-50                        20.000,-- DM

51-100                       30.000,-- DM 

> 100                        40.000,-- DM


Disk service each year 7.200,-- DM

The conditions for the most universities and equivalent institutions is
100.000,-- DM to get all current systems under the campus agreement.

-Lutz

--
# Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik 
# BITNET: KQ040MA@DACTH11 , InterNet: marten@ilt.fhg.de                        
# HEPNET: 13533::52714::MARTEN, Phone: +49/241/8906-112, -0

Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6126 comp.unix.ultrix:8483
From: dror@FibHaifa.com (Dror Caspi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: FrameMaker or Interleaf to DECwrite format converters
Date: 22 Nov 92 08:35:23 GMT
Reply-To: dror@FibHaifa.com
Followup-To: comp.sys.dec
Organization: Fibronics LTD., Haifa - ISRAEL
Originator: dror@goya


Does anybody know about format converters (filters) from FrameMaker or
Interleaf format to DECwrite format ?

Does anyone have the address of Keyword Office Technologies Ltd, who may
produce such filters ?

*** PLEASE e-mail directly, I don't receive these news groups.

I thank any help.

Dror


#### ## #### ####  | Dror Caspi  
   #  #    #   #   | Fibronics Ltd, MATAM Industrial Park, Haifa 31905, Israel 
   #  #    #   #   | phone : +972-4-313655    fax: +972-4-550266/550550
                   | e-mail: dror@FibHaifa.com   or  dror@fibronics.UUCP
## #### ##### #### |----------------------------------------------------------
 # #  # #   #    # |
      # #   #    # |
   ###   ###  ###  |

-- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
From: dab7w@beech.cs.Virginia.EDU (Duff Browne)
Subject: Re: Sanitize End Sectors?
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:19:41 GMT

In his article, Jamie Hanrahan writes,
> Yes.  This is a nearly free way to get the effect you want.  Either RMS or
> Files-11, I forget which, keeps track of the highest block number within the
> file that's actually been written to, and the last byte witin that block
> that's been written to.  Then when you read a block from the file, any 
> bytes beyond the "highwater" mark are zeroed before you get to look at it.

This is true, but the original intent was to "send some files out".  The high
water marking wouldn't do a bit of good, because the disk (if that's what it
is) needs to be "clean" when it leaves the building.  If the disk were to fall
into "unfriendly" hands, they could mount with some other system, and read 
each block, extracting information at will.

If it's magnetic disk, there is a VMS erase pattern that can be used.
DOD_ERAPAT.MAR in SYS$EXAMPLES is the file to use, and it's not even totally
correct.  Most site security officers should know the requirements for
releasing magnetic media that has had classified info on it (declassifying).
Our site just destroys tapes.  They're too cheap to bother compromising
information while trying to save $40 or less. Disks usually require
overwriting by alternating patterns of 1's and 0's several times.  So,
high water marking is great for security on your own system, but once
it leaves your building (or system for that matter), the data onthe disk 
is fair game for anyone.

Did that confuse the issue?

Duff Browne
dab7w@virginia.edu

Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6140 vmsnet.misc:1027
From: gulli@vedur.is (Gunnlaugur Kristjansson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,vmsnet.misc
Subject: NAS CDROM Distribution?
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:00:56 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.dec,vmsnet.misc,comp.os.vms
X-From: gulli@vedur.is (Gunnlaugur Kristjansson)
X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
X-Date: 23 Nov 92 16:55:42 GMT
X-Organization: Icelandic Meteorological Office

Hi.

Can anyone tell me what is the newest distribution of
the NAS CDROM? I have got a March 12 distribution of NAS
Since then a lot has happened. Is there a newer distribution?
Or do I have to pick each individual package out of the other 
CDROMs (from September 11 if I remember correctly)?

Best regards,
gulli
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gunnlaugur Kristjansson                  Email......: gulli@vedur.is
Systems Analyst                          PSImail....: 274011724200::gulli
Data Processing Division                 DECUS mail.: EDCHUB::KRISTJANSSON
Icelandic Meteorological Office          COMPUSERVE.: 72461,2160
Bustadavegi 9                            Telephone..: +354 1 600600
IS150 Reykjavik                          Telefax....: +354 1 28121
Iceland.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,biz.dec
From: dhendrik@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dion-ben Hendriks)
Subject: Looking for info on ETV (Ethernet via TV cable)
Keywords: Ethernet, TV, cable, ETV, info, wanted
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 10:03:47 GMT

Hi,

	I have heard a rumor that DEC has a system they supossedly call ETV 
which gives ethernet connectifity over "normal" cable TV networks.
I would like any information there is on any system that delivers this kind of 
connectifity, asspecialy I would like to know the following things:

How is the connection with the pc? (ie ISA-board, rs232, ethernetcard+special
"modem", other)

What kind of performance (throughput etc) are we talking about?

What are the limitations (distances, numbers, etc)

Any other systems then DEC?

People to talk to about these systems (Manufacturers, Dealers etc or
with hands on experiance, users).

Awaiting any information with eager anticipation....:-)

Dion-ben Hendriks
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6052 comp.os.vms:18187
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Remote install of 3600
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:25:42 GMT

I want to install Ultrix on a VAXserver 3600 remotely. I have Ultrix 4.3 on
CD-ROM, and the 3600 only has tape. So, I set up RIS on a system with CD-ROM
to accept the 3600, but when booted via Ethernet and after selecting the
drive for the root filesystem, it fails, complaining that the system could
not be found in risdb, but it is in fact there. A second attempt claims it
cannot access the drive (RA82).

Can anyone tell me how to get around this?

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: fordke@infonode.ingr.com (Keith Ford)
Subject: kermit in batch
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:07:44 GMT


A friend has asked me to query the net about ideas on running
kermit from batch in vms.  He says it won't operate that way
now.  He has a system that "wakes up" every N days and must
transfer some files to another site.

Anyone that has ideas or knows where the latest vms kermit
sources are, please send me email.  Thanks, fordke@ingr.com.
-- 
Keith E. Ford     __
Intergraph Corp  /  \ Micro Magic BBS 1:373/12  The Dragon Server
+1 205 730-8614  \__/ sysop@umagic.fidonet.org  server@ingr.com
fordke@ingr.com  [__] 830-2362 HST/V32bis 9600  "Subject: HELP"
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: can't "kill -9" processes on Ultrix/RISC
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:11:57 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <JOY8ZMC@gwdu03.gwdg.de> moeller@gwdgv1.gwdg.de writes:
>Maybe someone in this group has seen it before:
>
>On Ultrix/RISC 4.2A we often find processes that 
>can't be killed (by root, "kill -9") - short of a reboot.
>
>Is this expected behaviour under some circumstances?
>

Yes, if the process has been swapped out to disk and is not recalled.
The problem is why isn't the process recalled?
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:08:05 GMT

dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.121523.8216@brt.deakin.edu.au> dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller) writes:

>   >DEC "support" will not even talk to you unless you have one of their
>   >outrageously priced service contracts.  

>   More "outrageous prices" --- care to justify these assertions?

>Okay, How many manufacturers are getting $10,000 for a 1.3 gig drive?

Not at this shop.  That's higher by 3x than the retail prices I see
for DEC drives, and it's not too difficult to get discounts.
-- 
scs:  Currently tied for 2536th on the Zwicky list with `zwicky'.  The
      list was compiled by Elizabeth Zwicky (not Fritz, not Arnold),
      zwicky@erg.sri.com.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: ervin@pinbot.enet.dec.com (Joseph James Ervin)
Subject: Re: Now that Alpha is here......
Reply-To: ervin@pinbot.enet.dec.com (Joseph James Ervin)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:41:55 GMT


In article <1992Nov16.165404.13034@eng.umd.edu>, sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney) writes:

|>In article <1992Nov13.190642.243@hsh.com>, lee@hsh.com (Lee Havemann) writes:
|>
|>>My reasoning is that people will be replacing their older, slower vaxen
|>>running _VMS_ boxes for a newer, faster Alpha running _VMS_ boxes.
|>
|>This will probably result in a faster migration of CISC-VAXen into
|>people's homes, just as you see folks buying S*n 3/xxx and setting them up as
|>X-terms and personal Un*X networkds.
|>
|>... Hmm ... I wonder how cheaply you could produce a 4000/90 if you farmed out
|>the chips and such... 
|>
|>Somehow I doubt they'll be selling the VAX/CISC chips to Commodore or Atari, 
|>but it's always nice to wonder... :)
|>


I would expect VAX sales to continue very strong for the next 2-5 years as the
world transitions over to Alpha AXP.  Certainly we want people to move to 
Alpha AXP as soon as it makes sense for them to do so, but the world can rest
assured that Digital will remain committed to our VAX customers as long as
VAX is important to them.

Just take a look at the PDP-11.   The last time I checked, which was a couple
years ago, the PDP-11 was still a $1 billion a year business.

>>>Joe
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: daniel@moonshine.osf.org (Daniel Dardailler)
Subject: Re: C++, DECstations, and Motif (Q)
Organization: Open Software Foundation, Motif Team
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:20:29 GMT

 
|> I have difficulties getting c++ compilers (CC, gcc, g++) to compile C++
|> programs that contain X/Motif resources.  Example:
 
Check where your -I clauses point to.
Most probably, you are including pre-R4 X and Xt headers, which
didn't support C++.

Daniel.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:57:11 GMT

dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.) writes:

>In article <MORSE.92Nov19085839@quark.mpr.ca> morse@quark.mpr.ca (Daryl Morse) writes:

>   I'm bit rusty to be able to guess whether you are refering to SDI,
>   DSSI, or SCSI drives, but if it's the latter, then your prices are on
>   the verge of becoming wildly out of date.

>That's the price I was quoted.  $10,000 for a gig scsi drive.


>-dennis


The 1993 Winter H/W Catalog has the 1.05 Gig RZ26 at $2850  (page 155)
				    1.00 Gig RZ57 at  2250  (page 158)
                                    1.38 Gig RZ58 at  2975  (page 158) 


Looks to me like !!4 GIG!! for $10000.


Charlie 
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: rince@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (James Bonfield)
Subject: Re: seggy fault with ps
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:36:45 GMT

In <By05yo.3E9@alsvid.une.edu.au> mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett Internet: mark@arvak.une.edu.au Phone: +61 66 20 3859) writes:

> 	What compiler have you been using? Is it Ultrix 4.2 or 4.2A?
> 
> I've just tried in on all cominations of the following :-
> 
> 	Ultrix 4.2A and 4.3
> 
> 	cc gcc2.2.2 gcc2.3.1 

The following script says pretty much everything I think:

bash$ uname -a
ULTRIX rutland 4.2 0 RISC
bash$ cat > a.c
main() {vfork();pause();}
bash$ cc a.c
bash$ ./a.out &
[1] 3428
bash$ ps x
  PID TT STAT   TIME COMMAND
Segmentation fault
bash$ kill %1
[1]+  Terminated              ./a.out
bash$ c89 a.c
bash$ ./a.out &
[1] 3436
bash$ ps x
  PID TT STAT   TIME COMMAND
Segmentation fault
bash$ kill %1
[1]+  Terminated              ./a.out
bash$ type ps
ps is /bin/ps
bash$ exit

So what do the new OS's (4.2A/4.3) provide over 4.2? (Other than presumably a
fix to this bug.) We haven't got gcc on this machine - but I expect the result
would be pretty much the same.

Is there a list of patches available for the OS as on Suns?

Cheers,

James Bonfield (jkb@mrc-lmba.cam.ac.uk)   Tel: 0223 402499   Fax: 0223 412282
Medical Research Council Laboratory of Molecular Biology,
Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 2QH, England.
-- 
James 'Rince' Bonfield             O    .__   ._ ~ ~    /\/ ~        /\/
jkb@mrc-lmba.cam.ac.uk              o  /o  \_/ /        \/\  /o\/    \/\   ~
rince@dcs.warwick.ac.uk               (     | (  ~ ~         \(/\            ~
csuba@csv.warwick.ac.uk                \/__/ \_\                  ~
From: barry@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu (Barry Kort)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: DEC Support?
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:55:22 GMT
	<1992Nov16.235148.9336@eco.twg.com>
	<1992Nov18.054500.2450@csrd.uiuc.edu>
Organization: MicroMuse
NNTP-Posting-Host: chezmoto.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: furnari@sp66.csrd.uiuc.edu's message of Wed, 18 Nov 92 05:45:00 GMT

When you buy a car, they give you an owner's manual, but they do not
give you driving lessons or instructions on auto mechanics.

When you buy a computer, you get slightly more support than that,
but basically you are on your own to learn computer programming,
debugging, and hardware maintenance once the warranty or service
contract expires.

The best place to get ongoing support is through the user community
on NetNews or through computer clubs or user's groups.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:6015 comp.unix.ultrix:8372
From: andrewr@iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Andrew Rutherford)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Alt key on my DECstation
Date: 17 Nov 1992 19:45:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

M Darrin Chaney (mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

+ Here's a question that I hope someone can answer.  I've got a DECstation
+ 5000/120 running Ultrix 4.2a.  My keyboard, an LK401-AA (Rev. A01) comes
+ complete with two Compose keys and two Alt keys.  Unfortunately, all
+ applications that have a use for both (DECwrite, for instance) insist on
+ making me use the Compose key for both.  If I hold it, and press another
+ key, it is an Alt key.  If I press it and let it up, it's a Compose key.
+ The same holds true for things like Mwm which has a use only for Alt.  I
+ have to use Compose in its place for things like the window menus (minimize,
+ maximize, etc.)

Try this:

/usr/bin/X11/xmodmap \
	-e "clear mod1" \
	-e "clear mod2" \
	-e "add mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R" \
	-e "add mod2 = Multi_key Multi_key"

	I had problems with emacs wanting me to press the compose key for
Meta, and I discovered emacs assumes that the modifier mod1 is the Alt
keys, and that Dec's Xws starts up with Compose (otherwise known as
Multi_key) as mod1 and Alt as mod2. The above swaps them around.

	Note: this works for me with the Xws and emacs that DEC
provide with OSF/1, your mileage may vary with apps other than emacs.
Mwm also understands the Alt as Alt once you've done this.

	Possible suggestion for DEC: It would be nice if you changed
the Xserver so the keys defaulted to that way around so that your own
apps work correctly. On the other hand, I mentioned this to my local
DEC office back in May (when I got OSF/1, I seem to recall hitting the
same problem in Ultrix before then), so something may be being done
about it.

Cya all,
	Andrew.

/*
 * Andrew Rutherford                 andrewr@itd.adelaide.edu.au
 * +61 8 228 5669            Real Programmers always confuse Christmas and
 * Room 1060, Adelaide Uni      Halloween because OCT 31 == DEC 25 !
 */
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms