From: mikel@dosbears.UUCP (Mike Lipsie)
Newsgroups: ba.transportation
Subject: Re: CalTrain Article
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:37:30 GMT
Reply-To: dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com
Distribution: ba
Organization: DOS Bears

In article <jyc.726525449@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:
>mikel@dosbears.UUCP (Mike Lipsie) writes:
>
>>It is Jon's contention (or, at least, that's how I read him)
>>that travel time for commuters in the North of Market Financial
>>District would be shorter if you include the travel time from
>>4th & Townsend.
>
>   No, I think the attributions were confused, since that wasn't my
>point.  

My apolgies.  I miscounted the ">"s.

>   1)  Currently even with the dumb location of the 4th and Townsend
>depot there are still fairly good connections between Caltrain and the
>parts of the city which are the destination of most commuters and
> [...]
>the aforementioned neighborhoods.  If Caltrain connected with Bart short
>of the city, you'd then have make the cumbersome extra step of taking
>BART into SF and then in many cases transferring to the Muni.  

There are NOT "fairly good" connections.  The 42 runs every 10-15
minutes during rush hours (30 minutes othertimes).  The 15 runs every 
5-10 minutes.  The 15/45 runs frequently (average about every 3
minutes between them).  ALL of those lines go across Market near
a BART stop.  Only the 32 (which runs every 10-15 minutes at rush
hour and does not serve 4th&Townsend during midday) does not go
to a BART station (although the Embarcadero station is not too far.)

And why is a "cumbersome" step to transfer to BART but "fairly
good connections" with MUNI?

>   2)  There are currently a number of special connections to the
>present depot, and the option of having even more of them ought to be
>kept open.  For example the Muni runs commuter specials during rush hour
>to the depot from as far away as Levi Plaza, and I assume (though I
>don't know for sure) that some Financial District companies have their
>own shuttles -- if not, they should be encouraged to.  

I believe those specials are leased by CalTrain from MUNI.  And, you
know, Levi Plaza would not be considered "as far away as" from BART.

> Also, there are,
>or at least used to be, free-lance jitneys serving rush-hour commuters
>to the depot.  

They are still there.  (For the uninformed, these jitneys are small
buses which hold 20-30? people.  The one I'm familiar with goes from
the Powell BART station to 4th & Townsend.  They charge the MUNI
fare ($1) for the ride.  No Fast Pass. Their trips are timed to
meet certain trains; since they travel South of Market, their
timing can be more exact.)

>                                           All these connections, and
>the chance to add more such, would be lost if the train didn't go
>anywhere near downtown.

Then again (a) it would be nice if they were not needed and (b) why
couldn't they be used to serve other connection needs.  The goal is
transit, not saving CalTrain.

>   3)  But the above reasons are not the major ones.  [...]
>                                         It it *idiotic* that Caltrain
>doesn't go into central San Francisco.  The obstacles to doing this are
>not economic or technical but political,

Just a reminder.  "Politics" is used here as a dirty word.  Remember
that is how people interact and get along.

And I would say that the refusal of the CalTrain crowd to spend the
money for a subway to BART/MUNI is an economic argument.  That they
can't just lay down their tracks and let everyone else go to hell
is a political argument.

>   And I'll add a fourth personal reason.  In all my years living in the
>Bay Area I've never once set foot in San Bruno, and I see no reason why
>I should be required to start doing such a thing at this time of life. 

God forbid.

And before everyone assume that I think this proposal is the best thing
since sliced bread, let me say that I have hardly made up my mind.  I
have made up my mind that the arguments that Jon has made are weak, at
best.

--
Mike Lipsie                            584 Castro #614, San Francisco, CA 94114
dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com
mikel%dosbears.uucp@ingres.com    Running rn (for DOS) with UUPC/Extended 1.11k
Newsgroups: ba.transportation