HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:10:07 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <26841@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> 
>>We must also take into account VAT
>>rises, which hit the poorest, who spend more of their income on VATable goods
>>than the richest.
> 
> Why is this? Food is VAT exempt (unless you eat out) and food must
> surely take up a higher fraction of the incomes of the poor. What is it
> that the rich are buying that's VAT exempt?

Look at it a different way. The poor tend to use their spare cash to buy
(minor) luxuries, all of which attract VAT. The rich tend to use their spare
cash to invest, which brings them in more money and does not attract VAT.
> 
>>I hope, M, that you will now have the grace to admit that the government's
>>privatisations were not aimed at increasing the wealth of those whose wealth
>>needs increasing, but rather at increasing the wealth of those who might
>>conceivably vote Tory, particularly if they've just recieved a large hand-out
>>from teh government.
> 
> Yes, I'm quite happy to make it known that I believe that one reason for
> the privatisation programme was that opinion polls had indicated that
> people with shares were more likely to vote Tory. Therefore, from the
> Tories point of view, increasing the number of people with shares was A
> Good Thing.
> 
> This really gives me "grace"? :-)

In that you had preciously argued, or seemed to argue, that the privatisations
were A Good Thing per se, rather than a cheap political tool, yes.
> 
> A quick question though: do you folks that oppose the privatisations
> here, also oppose them in Russia? I don't have details (though I'm sure
> someone here will inform us) but it looks like they are simply giving
> everyone shares in things and saying "on you go mate, now you own it."
> Is this a fair way to do things? I kinda like the idea myself.
> 
It has rather more merit than only giving shares to people with large incomes.
It also has the merit of concentrating on privatisation of those things that
can be best run by a small-scale company: food production and distribution,
machine manufacture, building. That's not to say that government doesn't have a
role in these areas, of course.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:42:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
>Libertarian ideas would cover this situation. It's part of the theory to
>make the external costs internal. For instance, rather than welfare
>there might be unemployment insurance and charities.

Ah yes, now what about those who couldn't find a job in the
first place, and so never paid "unemployment insurance"?
(incidentally, of course "National Insurance" was once just a
nationalised version of your scheme, which is why the archaic
distinction between it and income tax is maintained), not to
mention those whose skills are limited so who would be charged
a high premium. Charity is a wonderful thing, but I doubt the
"Help a thick unemployed yobbo" charity would raise much money.
However, the thick unemployed yobboes might not be so thick
that they couldn't start their own "charity", collectors for
which come armed. Yes, I am beginning to get the hang of this
libertarianism now - "market forces" in the shape of starving
muggers force you to contribute to charities. Either that or
you pay for a bodyguard or more insurance against getting
mugged. What a wonderful world Libertaria is for insurance
salesmen.

>In the above situation, an insurer, rather than pay out money to have
>someone unemployed, might offer to pay the employer a retainer to keep
>someone employed until a recruiting agency, hired by the insurer, had
>found alternative employment. It'd depend on the insurer's own
>calculation of minimum cost, which would pretty much match the equation
>you are alluding to above.

Well, I've heard of selling yourself into slavery, but paying
an insurance company for the privilege of being sent to the
slave market, that's a new one.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: h.jonkers@et.tudelft.nl (Henk Jonkers)
Subject: Re: Edinburgh
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 08:13:32 GMT

cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:

>In article <BvrCJx.oA@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v064myby@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta) writes:
>> 
>> 	Can anyone tell me how you're supposed to pronounce Edinburgh?
>> Every Scot I talk to seems to say Edinboro!  I assume they're not referring
>> to Pennsylvania.
>> 						Latre,
>> 						'Q'

>	Try Edinburry !!! 

To me, the Scottish pronunciation sounds more like "Enbruh".

>now a little tester:: try these names of Scottish towns,

>1. Strathave
 
I thought this was spelled Strathavon

>2. Milngavie 

Also one of my favourites; since it's one of the end destinations of
Glasgow's west bound low-level trains, I've heard the right
pronunciation quite a few times.
Another one of my favourites is Culzean Castle (or Glamis).

By the way, something different, what's the correct pronunciation of
the name "John Menzies"?

>Sandy Mackinnon

Henk Jonkers      ( H.Jonkers@et.tudelft.nl )
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:59:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.173845.26611@infodev.cam.ac.uk> ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>
>Does anyone know the proportion of Northern Irish who are not Christian?
>Since this proportion (especially the atheists) is getting larger, why not
>wait until the problem goes away of itself?

In NI, if you're an athesist you're still a protestant athesist or a 
catholic atheist.  In fact in Ireland you remain whatever religion
you were born and raised, even if you no longer practice, or are leaning
to another sect.  Besides the core issue in NI is not religion, but national
identity, as others have pointed out.  Do you consider the main problem in
Bosnia-Hercegovina to be religion?  Religion is just one symptom of a 
larger national difference.  There are protestant nationalists and
catholic unionists.  Besides most religions except maybe the Free Presbyterian
church make a point of 'disowning men of violence'.  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Southwell (was Re: Edinburgh)
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:40:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Wales at Aberystwyth.

In article <1992Oct8.122911.7950@cs.hw.ac.uk> nick@cs.hw.ac.uk
(Nick Taylor) writes:
>And if you want some real fun ask a Brit to pronounce Shrewsbury or Southwell.
>You'll get the oh so clever responses of Shrowsbury and Southall.

We are about 80 miles from Shrewsbury, and in a different principality, yet
we still pronounce it as it is written.

If you really want some fun with place names, try some of ours. Can you 
pronounce Machynlleth? Tywyn? Dyfi? Ystwyth? Borth? Taliesin? Eglwys Fach?

And that is just within a ten mile radius.

But then, we do have the advantage of haveing named things in a "foreign"
language here.

Stephen.
-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: norr@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil.orr)
Subject: Accents
Keywords: English xenophobia
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:47:16 GMT



In article <1992Oct9.095533.22533@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.092211.6720@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, norr@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil.orr) writes:
>> But did you know that the Scots speak the best German, French and
>> most certainly Dutch (but not all at the one time) ?
>
>Although when speaking English with an accent like that they might as well
>be speaking German, French and Dutch all at the same time.
>
>Simon (adhering to the s.c.b tradition)
>
>-- 
The s.c.b tradition is obviously one that appeals to tiny minds.


Neil Orr
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)\
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:18:45 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct6.073300.23993@osf.org>, sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.114848.9209@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>> What the Economist may well have said is that it costs less to buy coal from
>> Virginia than from Selby. In terms of cash, maybe, but certainly not in terms
>> of pollution. 
> 
> Would you care to justify this statement?
> 
> Simon
> 
Certainly. Virginia is in the USA. To get coal from Virginia to the UK involves
burning fuel of whatever type it is that heavy container ships use for a week
or two. To then get by lorry from Liverpool (say) to the power station involves
1000 or so lorries on a journey of an hour (at least). Not only do they
themselves burn diesel fuel, often very inefficiently because of lack of
regular servicing, but they also add to road congestion, causing thousands of
other vehicles to take longer over their journeys and burn even more fuel. All
that contributes carbon particles (dirt) and CO2 (greenhouse gas) to the
atmosphere. There is also the question of noise pollution---1000 lorries are
not quiet, particularly if they trundle 24 hours a day. Add to that the extra
pollution caused when the roads have to be resurfaced because they were not
built to withstand continual battering by HGVs and you have a lot of pollution.

Now compare the train. I am assuming we are talking about a power station five
miles from the mine. 1000 lorries full is maybe two trains full; the whole lot
is over in much less time; there is no extra pollution from holding other
traffic up as the power station has its own branch line (don't forget that
until fairly recently *all* coal to power stations was delivered by BR.); the
track was built to withstand goods trains so there is no extra pollution from
repair; the noise is confined within the five miles which are probably fairly
sparsely populated, and is concentrated at the site of the power station.

OK. This is not a numerical argument, but is convincing enough to me and to
many other people. It is a shame that the government is pathologically opposed
to any use of the rail network and funded by the roads lobby, otherwise it
might realise this fact too.

--
Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14245 alt.politics.british:297 soc.culture.celtic:6878
From: ulick@liszt.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:34:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct16.143447.8624
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <1992Oct15.181934.8772@infodev.cam.ac.uk> ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>interesting point of view.  And surely it's significant that the most
>outspoken Unionist leader (the Revd. Ian Paisley) is a priest?

He wouldn`t use the term.  I thougght it described the agents of the papist
devil in Rome.  Big Ian has a diploma mill Ph.D from some American Bible 
college too, and is occasionally called Dr.  He is actually head of his own
church, the wild and wacky Free Presbyterian Church.  Not being into religion,
and especially the subtle differences between fundamentalist Protestant sects,
I haven't a clue how they differ from other religions such as the Fosterites.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: bad teeth
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:27:27 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct9.145304.27183@mailhost.bl.cad.slb.com>, quigley@boston.sinet.slb.com (Joe Quigley) writes:
> 
> Dental floss can produce great results, especially after my dentist
> told me that I would likely keep my teeth longer if I take the time
> to "floss" properly each day.  In our home it is nearly a ritual for
> me as well as my two year old daughter and six year old son.  However,
> today my daughter was having a "good hair day" :) , but some trouble
> deciding on the mint flavor or non flavored floss.

Erm... does this have anything to do with anything?

Jason

> 
> Cheers,
> Joe
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Antony Mossop)
Subject: Re: VNS: The Vogon News Service
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:54:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.215559.4076@syacus.acus.oz.au> james@syacus.acus.oz.au (James Smith) writes:
>jlloyd@cc.uow.edu.au (Jonathan Lloyd) writes:
>
>>I would like to thank the guys who keep VNS going for providing 
>>us poor expats with the most reliable and unbiased news service
>>we could wish for.
>
>>Keep up the good work. One suggestion, less world news we can all get that 
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>from the local media. More UK news and more rugby coverage.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>

I too like the VNS but must plead for more world news, as i) I like 
the UK style of world news coverage and ii) I can get world news from
local US media???!!!! Sadly no I can't.


>Hear, Hear ! VNS is much appreciated. More UK news would be very welcome.
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:50:25 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:

>Seriously, at what stage does the 'free market' (with its benefits and 
>pitfalls) end, and the state commence basic protection of those it considers 
>in need?

Well, if you want to believe some current advocates of the welfare state
then anyone earning less than average income is by definition "poor".
This kind of thinking leads to the prevalent nonsense of collecting
taxes to redistribute to such obviously poor people as:

1) Home owners. (Mortgage Interest Relief)

2) Married couples. (I guess it's just intuitive that single living is
cheaper than joint living).

3) Every child in the country (since we apparently hand out child
benefit whatever the earnings of the parents).

and god alone knows what other nonsense.


The result is that production, trade, and employment are taxed to
subsidise folks who could manage well enough on their own. The result is
that a few folks do better than otherwise at the cost of more
unemployment, a slower economy, and less production.

Now that it's becoming painfully obvious that government spending is way
too high (estimate for borrowing next year: 50 billion, or if you prefer,
around 25% of the government tax-grab) it's got to be time to look
carefully at the welfare state. Surely most people would agree that it'd
be better to live wiythin our means and start targetting the tax money
at those folks who are, beyond the doubt of almost anyone, actually
poor. 

If it can be done in Sweden, then it can surely be done in the uk.
There's no doubt that some folks will be screaming, but we'd all be
better off with an economy that generates wealth than with one that
leaves us to rely on borrowing.

>Audrey.

FoFP
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The Bloody War in Ireland.
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:20:41 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <Bw2vvD.1r1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) writes:
> Without any personal opinions, -- Just the facts -- or in-depth
> analysis, what *is* all the fighting about?
> 
> Is it a Religious Apartheid?
> 
"All the fighting" is a myth. Northern Ireland is a largely peaceful place.
Since 1969 there have been roughly 3000 murders related to the troubles. That
is about as many as there were in Chicago (I think) last year. Road Traffic
accidents have accounted for rather more lives than inter-necine warfare.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Does being Tory mean you're Thick
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:44:41 GMT
	<26950@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <26950@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:

   It is also the case that schoolteachers for some strange reason are on
   average more left wing than the country as a whole. This is a problem
   for the Tory party, who do not wish to be paying the salaries of
   people who might be teaching little children to vote them out.

It could work the other way - the teachers could be unconsciously teaching
the kids that caring left-wingers end up in badly paid dead end jobs like
teaching.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: susher@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Sod
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:16:31 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1asqupINNsq@early-bird.think.com>, sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
> In article <1asp8uINNoct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
> |> I notice many British people use the word `sod' when refering to someone.
> |> It's seems to be used negatively.  What is a sod?  What does it mean?
> |> When would you refer to someone as a sod?  And finally, what is a 
> |> `cheeky sod'?
> 
> RTFD. 
> (Random House)
> sod (sod; sod) n. Chiefly Brit. Slang.(^B usually contemptuous)
>         C4: Chiefly Brit.
> 1 n.
>         sodomite; homosexual.
> 2 n.
>         chap; fellow; guy.
> 3 n.
>         child; kid; brat.
>         D8: ^D bugger. ^A
> Etymology:
>         by shortening

You forgot the one most immportant definition:-

	Sod, n. A peice of earth dug with an implement.

	eg. The VIP dug the first sod for the new building.

> 
> (Not mentioned here, the adjective (pretending to be a gerundive, but the
> verb doesn't exist to my knowledge) : sodding.

[Much deleted]

> 
> Daan Sandee                                           sandee@think.com
> Thinking Machines Corporation
> Cambridge, Mass 02142                                 (617) 234-5044

Steve
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: London Penpal
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:40:06 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct7.110013.23@newton.hartwick.edu> wendtr@newton.hartwick.edu writes:
~In article <26576@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
~> In article <qncdv5o@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
~> =>In article <26546@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
~> =>|> In article <qmh65dk@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
~> =>|> =>
~> =>|> =>I think that some candidate for President in 1988 (was it Pat
~> =>|> =>Robertson?) boasted of having gone to Oxford and they dug up
~> =>|> =>that he'd actually spent six weeks there one Summer.
~> =>|> 
~> =>|> Are you sure you aren't thinking of Jeffrey Archer??
~> =>
~> =>No, I don't think he qualifies to run for President.  He
~> =>wasn't born in the US, was he?
~> 
~> I don't know, have you asked him? As a matter of fact I don't think he's
~> qualified for anything very much, but that doesn't seem to have stopped
~> him.
~> 
~*** Can we please keep to the subject, maybe you should have your political
~debates elsewhere!

Sod off.



-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          Vommen
                                             Bladmagen
                                   Loepmagen
                        Naetmagen
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Edinburgh
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:27:54 GMT
	<henk.718532012@dutepp17> <Bvt1t7.J2B@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <Bvt1t7.J2B@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

   Mingus, but its hardly used. The John Menzie's bookstore is usually referred
   to as 'Menzie's" or 'John Menzie's' locally.

   Mingus is usually used if it's someone's name. The bookstore get's a
   different pronunciation but don't ask me why!!

Because the John Menzies TV adverts all loudly pronounce it the wrong way.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british