From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: Player killing ....
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:57:01 GMT


Jeffrey Clary (clary@iastate.edu) wrote:

>I've never been much of a player-killer, but I have no problem with it as long
>as it doesn't involve what I would call "asshole" tactics.  These include
>attacking someone of a much lower level, hanging around recall points to
>finish off half-dead characters, etc.
> 
>Actually, come to think of it, I don't really have a problem with those kind
>of tactics either, if that is the norm on that particular mud.  It so happens
>that the implementors on the mud I've played most frown on that sort of 
>"dishonorable" player-killing.
> 
>*Unless* a particular mud has rules or customs to the contrary, I don't have
>a problem with a player-killer choosing a target for the Hell of it; it is
>a GAME, after all, and human beings make ever so much more exciting opponents
>than virtual beasties.

It's precisely the "asshole" tactics (which you don't seem to be too sure
about, yourself) that I'm questioning.  As I've said before, I don't have any
objection to pkilling in general; my objection is to those who kill wantonly,
usually only when the odds are greatly in their favor, and with no cause.

As to the two "pro-pkilling" arguments which you (and others) have raised:

Yes, human opponents are more challenging IN A FAIR FIGHT than a computer-
generated "mobile".  But kindly tell me what challenge there is in attacking
and killing someone who, because of low level or injury, cannot possibly
win.

Yes, it's "only a game".  However, it is a game into which people have
invested (often) a great deal of time and effort.  My primary question all
along has been, "Why is it that some people only seem to enjoy the game when
they are destroying someone else's effort?"

>> .... and I've seen posts on other threads when someone happens to mention
>>having gotten killed that run along the lines of "Hey, if you don't wanna
>>get killed, go to a wimpy MUD .... Some of us LIKE killing each other".
> 
> Quite a sensible idea, I think.  There are muds out there that completely
> disallow player killing.  Those people who like that style should play one
> of them.

This "sensible idea" completely misses the point.

Maybe it's because my background is more in RPGs than in MUDs, but I spend
time in MUDs with settings I find interesting.  I don't give a flying f*ck
whether it's a Diku, Lp, or whatever.  (In fact, I really don't understand
why these newgroups are split according to those lines .... It would make
more sense to me to split them according to genre.)  The game MECHANICS are
not nearly so important to me as the game WORLD.

If I find a MUD with a unique setting which appeals to me, I will play it.  If
there are (relatively minor) elements of the game mechanics which I dislike,
I'll try to get them altered, and failing that, learn to live with them.  But
telling me just to "go to a different MUD" completely ignores the reason why
I'm on a particular MUD in the first place, and the reason why I'm interested
in seeing it improved.

But this whole point is, of course, peripheral to the real question under
discussion.

>>Are none of them [the pkillers who favor the above-discussed "asshole"
>>tactics] willing to attempt a "rational" defense of their attitude?
> 
>Why should they?  I repeat...DikuMud is a *game*...if they like player-killing
>and it is allowed by the rules of the game they play, why should they have to
>defend themselves?

I'm not asking them to defend themselves, just to explain why they find the
tactics they choose to be desirable.  Of course they don't HAVE to do so; I'm
just curious as to the mindset that prompts them, as I mentioned above, to
enjoy pointless destruction of another player's effort.

>Again, I can't really claim to be a bloodthirsty killer, but if I was in the
>group you are trying to reach, my initial reaction would be:
> 
>    Why don't you just bite me, Darryl?

Gee .... This is exactly the sort of intelligent, rationally-thought out
response that I frankly expected to get.

(Sigh.)

Well, as far as I'm concerned, this thread has dragged on long enough.  It's
obvious that those who favor "asshole" pkilling -- taking advantage of another
character's weakness or low level to kill for no reason and no gain, serving
only to destroy the work of the player behind that other character -- are
either unable or unwilling to justify their actions.

Unfortunate, but hardly surprising.

	Darryl


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