From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:39:08 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


I lost my net access for a couple of weeks, so I'm replying to a post
that has statements from several individuals in it.  I'm not even trying
to make sense of the attributions.  Besides, I'm all I want to do is
contribute my two cents worth on a couple of ideas.  At any rate, no
insults or personal attacks intended.

# >You are far more likely to get shot at if you are waving a gun around.

I'd strongly agree with this statement.  If at all possible, keep it out
of sight until you need to use it, get it over with and get it back out
of sight.  (If you are in public, this of course assumes legal concealed
carry.)  There are very few situations in which I'd attempt to hold
someone at gunpoint.  (This is very dangerous, even cops don't like to
do it, but it is somewhat better that trying to single handedly take
someone into custody.)  All of the well known firearms instructors I've
had classes from point out that there really won't be any doubt in your
mind when the occasion arises when you'll need to use your gun.  If
there is doubt, that is probably a good indication that you shouldn't
get involved....

# # #Sit (1):  have the perp standing 5-10 feet in front of you with his
# # #back to you and his hands in the air: if the local cops would shoot
# # #the gun holder in this situation, you need to move.

#From which position it is possible for him (her) to kill you before you
can pull the trigger.  If circumstances somehow dictated this, I'd move
immediately to the next option below.

# #
# # A better position to have him assume: face down on the ground, looking
# # _away_ from you, with both hands IN YOUR SIGHT.

This is the only alternative I'd consider, and I have difficulty
constructing a scenario in which I'd be forced to apply it.

#
# An arriving officer (or another citizen) will only see you waving a gun
# around (you are *very* likely to be moving -- adrenalin).  An officer
# coming onto a scene with a person holding both hands high in the air
# will immediately understand that you are holding that person: your'e
# less likely to get shot that way.

I wouldn't bet my life on this one.  There is nothing to distinguish you
from the criminal in this case.  All he see's is a non-police type
person threatening another with a gun.  The best bet is to find some way
of informing the police of the situation BEFORE they get there.  If you
are in a public place, have someone call and meet the police.  If you
are in at home or whatever, you probably have called them to get them
there, so make sure you explain the situation.

#
# # #Sit (3): Approach the body, remove his weapon, retreat (with the weapon
# # #constantly pointed at the body) then holster the gun.  Criminals do
# # #not approach dead or dying bodies to remove guns, nor do they retreat
# # #with guns pointed at a body: criminals shoot and leave.  Again, if the
# # #local cops would show up and shoot you under these situations, move!

I'd recommend just the opposite.  Distance, cover, reload.  In that
order!  NEVER approach.  Just because you shot them doesn't mean that
they can't kill you!  The ONLY advantage of a gun is that it is a remote
control weapon.  Don't throw your advantage away by approaching a
suspect.  Leave that for the cops.  They get paid to take those kind of
risks.

Most people consider a rapid draw and accurate first shot to be a vital
skill if you ever need to use a firearm.  Few stop to consider HOLSTERING
a gun to be an essential skill.  I've been told this by nearly every
firearms instructor I've had over the years, but a recent John Farnum
class I attended (review to be forthcoming in a week or two) supplied
some useful guidelines.

One of John's standards is to be able to draw (from concealment) and hit
a 20cm by 30 cm target at about 12 meters within two seconds of a start
signal.  Another is to get the gun holstered and concealed again, (one
handed and without looking) within 1.5 seconds!  With a bit of practice
over a three day period, few had trouble meeting these standards.

When viewed in the context of the comments above, these standards make
far more sense.  Cops get REAL nervous around guns.  It is best if yours
is holstered and out of sight when they show up.  You will have ample
opportunity to explain.  This is a very poor time to be fumbling with
your gun.

Rick.