HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.abstract
Keywords: perfect-information deterministic strategic no-dice
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:12:39 GMT

In article <BtMLqM.4qy@uunet.uu.net>, neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) writes:
>Example Games
>-------------
>
>This list is not intended to be exhaustive.  Is there a game here *you* hadn't
>heard of previously?
>
>	Alquerque, Black Box, Chameleon, Chase, Checkers, Chess-type
>	games (eg Shogi, Xiangqi, Shaturanga, Shatranj), Chinese
>	Rebels, Complica, Connect Four, Emergo, Fanorona, Fighting
>	Serpents, Footsteps, Go-Moku (Renju), Golomb's Game, Halma,
>	Havannah, Hex, Hexplode, L-Game, Lasca, Lines of Action,
>	Mancala (Awari), Master Mind, Nine Men's Morris, Nomic, Qubic
>	(4x4x4 Tic-Tac-Toe), Queen's Guard, Reversi (Othello), Ringo,
>	Run, Salta, Skirrid, Tafl (eg Tablut, Fox & Geese), Teeko

When I first chose the newsgroups I was interested in, I looked into
r.g.board, and I didn't understand any of the postings.  After several
weeks, I assumed that this group ignored all board games except a certain
brand that seemed to deal with war simulations or the like (and that, for
all I knew, possibly did't even have a board, like role playing games), so
I unsubscribed.  Who wants to read groups where not even *one* article is
interesting?  The current state of that group is disencouraging.

On the other side, in r.g.go one sees articles from people who want to know
about Othello, Shogi, Xiangqi, or Renju.  These people seem to think r.g.go
is the best choice for that (Skylla rather than Charybdis), so my impression
is that r.g.board has been successfully occupied by the armies of Wargaming.

A short look in the group yields: in 201 articles, there are two Xiangqi
postings, two about Scrabble, one about Monopoly, two about checkers which
are crossposted to r.g.chess, two about dragonchess (but the poster first
tried in r.g.chess), and some about games where I have no idea:
Blackbeard, emperor of china, Flat Top, Tyranno Ex, Tactica.
If I did read r.g.board, I had to read all postings of the last class,
because I don't know whether they are war games, abstract games, or whatever.
The rest is split discussion and the usual BattleTech, Axis and Allies,
Diplomacy etc.

If we had a separate r.g.abstract group, and I saw a Tactica thread there,
it would have a greater chance of being read by me because then I knew it's
not a war simulation.


-- 
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
Definition:  Idiot-proof  -  you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody.


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: @apollo.HP.COM (Jennifer E. Levine)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.babylon5
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:17:34 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

I will vote for an alt.tv.babylon5

Although the show is not out yet it has gotten alot of attention and
discussion. There are lots of posts about it in the ST heirarchy. 

I would like to be able to read the ST groups for stuff about Star Trek and
have a place to go to hear the latest on this new show. The whole creation 
process of Babylon5 is very interesting. But, I don't think this information
belongs in the ST heirarchy.

	--Jennifer Levine
	jlevine@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.indian.american
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:01:19 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups

In article <9209010727.AA22117@cs.utexas.edu>, FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU writes:
> I don't understand something here.  Alok et al are raving on about how
> soc.culture.indian.american was defeated due to a campaign of bigotry and
> lies or something, and people are responding by pointing out that the
> whole pro-s.c.i.a. thing had breached guidelines, or something.  Then too,
> I've seen several posts whining about how s.c.i.a. was beloved by its users
> and so forth, and how cruel it was of us, the USENET overlords, to take it
> away from them.
> 
> Did someone forget to mention that the reason an awful lot of people cited
> as the reason for voting against soc.culture.indian.american was the fact
> that its name was a crawling horror from the sewers of hell, or whatever
> that phrase is the DaSilvas like?  As I said at the time, everyone I asked
> (a couple dozen people, if I recall correctly) assumed that soc.culture.
> indian.american was about American Indians.  Native Americans.  Amerinds.
> EVERYONE assumed that.  When I told them that it was intended to be about
> ASIAN Indians living in the USA, they all went "Huh?"
> 
> When the six months finish elapsing from the last defeat of soc.culture.
> indian.american, I hope that if it must be dragged out again, it will have
> a better name proposed.  If the backers obstinately propose to call it
> 'soc.culture.indian.american' again, it's gonna get pounded again.  Sigh.
> 
> Anyway, this is just my $0.02 worth on this whole 'USENET-is-out-to-get-you'
> hoorah, s.c.i.a. Lost Cause-ites.


The best two cents I have seen so far on it. This time we will have a vote
on the proposed names just like the previous time, but we will include
the provision of casting a NO vote against the proposed names (In addition
to the customary YES for your favorite name).

No we are not obstinate, but soc.culture.indian.american name was
chosen via a straw poll vote the previous time. ONly drawback was
that NO votes were not allowed. Out of the suggested names, SCIA
received the most YES votes and hence the selection of this name ...

If the name vote allows NO and still SCIA comes out as the selection,
then that is what will go forward. If some other name like
soc.culture.us.asian-indian is prefered then that will be the name to go 
forward for a final vote.

And I will NOT be the vote taker.

Alok
From: ssmith@xocolatl.com (Shannon Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.legal.family moderated
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 13:33:21 PDT
Reply-To: ssmith@xocolatl.com
Followup-To: news.groups
Distribution: world
Organization: Amethyst Systems, Fremont, CA

bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:

-> RFD: misc.legal.family (moderated)

I strongly favor creation of such a moderated group.  Placing it in
the misc. hierarchy instead of the alt. hierarchy will allow for much
wider distribution of the discussions on this topic.  Family law is
of very great interest to many people, and everyday more and more
people need some basic information on where to turn.

I wouldn't think that people would misuse the group as a way of
avoiding a lawyer.  The stakes are very high.  I feel that most
people, myself included, would find the information of value as a
primer in determining whether they have a problem, how big it is, and
various means of redress.

I favor a moderated group--just look at alt.child-support and
alt.dads-rights and you'll see why.  These are very
emotionally-charged issues and moderation would help to keep the
discussions in line.

---
Shannon Smith                     ssmith@xocolatl.com
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.lists,news.admin
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.legal
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.legal.family moderated
Date: 1 Sep 92 07:05:24 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:

> Question:
> 
> would misc.legal.family include topics that involve the lesbians and
> gays in our community (legal right to marry, to adopt, to claim your
> spouse on taxes, etc.)?
> 

If the topical matter was pertinent to existing law, and not a complaint
or an application of personal or even pervasive opinion/theory, then it
would, yes.

If the intent was a forum for ideas, then no, it wouldn't. That would
be what we were trying to avoid. Those would currently fit with the
current volume of alt.* groups which are dealing in theory on relation-
ship topics.

I hope I understood and answered your question. (?)


--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA
From: cs_jh@cox.nsac.ns.ca (JEFF HOYLE)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.bicycles.mtb ? How do we set one up???
Date: 27 Aug 92 11:31:04 GMT
Organization: Nova Scotia AC

Over the last few weeks there has been increasing interest in setting up a 
rec.bike group especially for mountain bike topics.  I think that we should 
set one up.  How do we go about doing this?  If I was to do this what would 
be my first step?  I don't want to step on anyones toes (if someone else 
wants to do this/is doing this then that's  fine with me).

Comments???

Jeff
  ***********************************************************
  * Dr Jeff Hoyle (Organic Chemist)                         *
  * Chemistry and Soil Science Department                   *
  * Nova Scotia Agricultural College    FAX: (902)-895-4547 *                     *
  * P.O. Box 550, TRURO,              Voice: (902)-893-6630 *
  * Nova Scotia. CANADA  B2N  5E3                           *  
  *                  -----------------                      * 
  * Internet: cs_jh@cox.nsac.ns.ca  OR  jh_cs@ac.nsac.ns.ca *
  ***********************************************************
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.abstract
Keywords: perfect-information deterministic strategic no-dice
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:28:43 GMT

In article <BtnvEJ.83G@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu (Nick Fitzpatrick) writes:
>So my problem with rec.games.abstract, is that Diplomacy would then be split between
>4 newsgroups, rather than just 3.

What if we promise to flame all diplomacy postings in r.g.abstract until they
go to one of the other three newsgroups?  :-)

>Therefore I will ask all the diplomacy players
>(and we have almost 800 registered in the Washington Adjudicator alone) to vote
>against rec.games.abstract.  Though perhaps something can be done to allow
>for the creation of rec.games.abstract.  I will withdraw my objections if the addition
>of the newsgroup rec.games.diplomacy, is added to the ballot.

Aha, blackmail.  Though you probably would call it diplomacy.
Well, you don't exactly make friends this way.

Why don't you start a r.g.diplomacy newsgroup for yourself if you have so many
followers?  Perhaps there are too many people who don't like your attitude and
vote against it?  You just increased the number by at least one.

-- 
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
Definition:  Idiot-proof  -  you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.boycotts.announce moderated, misc.boycotts.misc
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:15:29 GMT

>In article <1992Sep1.015811.30347@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) says:

> I think the idea of a newsgroup about boycotts is excellent, but I'm
> uneasy at the idea of a moderated announce newsgroup.
[...]
> I'm worried about not being able to
> criticize a boycott call in the same newsgroup in which it appears.

fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters) writes:

>The primary reason for an announce group is
>so that people not interested in a lot of discussion on a topic can
>still see important announcements related to the topic (and go to the
>appropriate discussion group for more information if they want).
[...]

I think misc.boycotts.announce would be different than existing
announce newsgroups because everything it announces is going to be
controversial. Most follow ups to most to a regular announce article
are uninteresting to most readers. In contrast, almost all follow ups
to a boycott call would be of interest to at least half of the
readers.

It's one thing to say "there will be a conference on bioplant
mechanics in two months" and have the follow up (if any) moved to a
different forum. It's another thing to say "The Boy Scouts (or Levi's)
are scum; don't support them" and then limit follow up.

I think the idea of a single, unmoderated, newsgroup is best, at least
until we get more experience.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: sfk@otter.hpl.hp.com (Steve Knight)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.lang.pop
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:31:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.

I think that comp.lang.pop is an excellent idea -- and not before time, too.
I hope it gets the support it deserves and gets set up before PLUG-92.  It
would be a great thing to announce at this year's conference!

> The group would serve for discussions on the programming language Pop11, and
> related environments and libraries.

I'd like to mention some programming environments that should probably be
explicitly covered:
	Poplog                Pop11, runs on a variety of kit
	Muse                  Poptalk, implemented in portable C (I believe)
	AlphaPop              Pop11, runs on the Apple Macintosh
	Glow                  A recent addition running on PC
If anyone thinks of other actively used Pop systems then they should
probably be added.  This would be helpful to people who are 
scanning the groups looking for connected articles.  

My guess would be that Poplog would, in fact, be the dominant implementation
being reviewed because of the good UK academic connections to the net.

> These sorts of discussions have so far been supported by a mailing list. But
> the list is now far too unwieldy (>400 members). 

It is simply a matter of numbers.  In trying to maintain this list for several
years, it's gone from a matter of a couple of messages a month to being
a difficult committment to maintain.  Although the mail-list is fairly 
reliable, the size of it means that there is always a problem with it 
somewhere!  So I'm especially supportive of the proposed comp.lang.pop.  I
think it is the right place for a topic with side interest.

My only reservation is whether or not enough members of the mailing list
have access to the net.  I guess that this will be answered by the response
to Ian's call for discussion!

Steve
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.sf.babylon5
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 00:50:04 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <Btts22.G6w@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs) writes:
>Well i have never responded to a CFD or RFD or a UTBFD (up the butt...)
>but I for one am STRONGLY in favor of this newsgroup simply because I hate
>having to scrounge over several others searching for the occasional oft
>bad described B5 post.
>`:wq
>

Put it this way...if the vote for rec.arts.sf.babylon5 passes (or, god forbid,
rec.arts.babylon5), that very day, the following proposals will be sent for
approval:

	rec.arts.mst3k
	rec.arts.law&order
	rec.arts.forever-knight
	rec.arts.covington_cross

All of these shows have garnered as much traffic, either in total number of
posts or in number of posts/day as babylon 5, with one exception:  THEY EXIST!!!

Quantum Leap, of course, will be proposed to have a new group:

	rec.ql

Why should the babylon5 groupies be the only self-important people to ask for
a newsgroup?

(I mean, get real.  There have been two (2) (II) flavors of posts anout b5:
 the behind the scenes stuff from the guy posting for the producer, and the FAQ
 "Is Babylon 5 the same as Deep Space 9?"  At least on a.t.mst3k we get into
 deep philisophical discussions about pop culture and the nature of the '90s.)

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.board
From: u-lchoqu%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette)
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:36:43 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

News.groups already carries much more traffic than a lot of people can keep up
with.  I don't see a need to add to it calls to delete newsgroups that nobody
is reading.  These unused newsgroups don't bother me, since rn never brings
them to my attention, and I don't think most other newsreaders bother their
users with them either.  To me the waste of human time in discussing whether to
remove each of these groups is much more important than the small waste of
machine resources to retain them.  How much is your time worth to you?
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
   . . . . Lee Choquette . . . . . . . . . . I love work . . . . . . . . . .
  . . u-lchoqu@peruvian.utah.edu. . . . I could watch it all day. . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Voting procedures (was: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment)
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:42:00 GMT

In article <jlp.714758218@wink> jlp@blink.att.com (Jon Peticolas(x7058)) writes:
>Forget it. I don't think there's any requirement stating that
>one must participate in a group to vote on sub-group creation.

There's no requirement that a voter even be able to read
news.

>In fact I'd be willing to bet that more than one yes vote came from
>news.groups regulars who were just tired of seeing the r.m.h CFV
>every six months.

The discussion/vote system provides a mechanism for
prospective users to express their interest in a group and
to determine its form, and for news administrators to
provide input as to where the new group should be fitted
into the news hierarchy.

This second reason is why the final discussion is always in
news.groups instead of in a group that shares readers with
the proposed group.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@forel.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.diplomacy
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:57:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.104711.1630@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>In article <BtvJw8.JLz@uunet.uu.net>, nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick) writes:
>> This is a Request For Discussion on the creation of a newsgroup for
>> the Game of Diplomacy.
>> 
>> Group Name
>> rec.games.diplomacy
>
>	I think the group should be named rec.games.board.diplomacy.  Other
>than that, I would have no objections.

Yeah, I was expecting this one.  One could also argue that it should
also be called rec.games.pbm.diplomacy  as most of the discussion on
Usenet is about pbm diplomacy, I thought then, considering the confusion
that it would cause, that a rec.games.diplomacy would be the more logical
choice.  Besides, we already have rec.games.chess, rec.games.go and
many more that I don't wish to remember.

Nicholas Fitzpatrick


Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.legal
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.legal.family moderated
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:57:51 GMT

Question:

would misc.legal.family include topics that involve the lesbians and
gays in our community (legal right to marry, to adopt, to claim your
spouse on taxes, etc.)?

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"now we find sodom strange take it out put it in your mouth how do you like
gomorrah now a taste of this swallow that feel the fish hide the hat ezekial
where's your wheel you better grease it GREASE GREASE GREASE GREASE! ROCK!!!"
       --Chainsaw Kittens, "Ezekial Walks Through Sodom and Gomorrah"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Improprieties (soc.culture.indian.american and soc.culture.tamil
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:28:22 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

Is Alok clueless?  Or is he actually quite smart, except that he's in
another dimension, with these articles posted by a clone that was
created to confuse Gary Stollman?  Beats the heck out of me, Batman.

According to alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia):
>The evidence was shown by Kuram Narayan. He pointed out a mail by the
>vote taker to a prospective voter in which the vote taker advised him to
>vote YES or abstain. The fact that this was done just before the issue of
>CFV set the tone...

IF IT ISN'T DURING THE VOTE, THEN IT IS OKAY.

NOW PLEASE GIVE UP AND GO AWAY.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
From: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Re: A "YES!" vote for MTB newsgroup
Reply-To: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 22:01:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.185735.20884@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, behm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BEHM CHRISTOPHER JOSEPH) writes:
> 
> 	 Need I say more ?
> 				John Mastrangelo
> 				ice@massive.its.bldrdoc.gov
> 

Yes. What the hell is MTB?
-- 

   -paul	pmartz@dsd.es.com
		Evans & Sutherland
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: How Do You Verify Votes? (was Re: r.m.harley vote acknowledgment)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:16:05 GMT
Organization: Sporadic and incomplete

steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:

> I've received numerous emails from people using UUCP in mixed-mode email
> addresses to reach an internet facility, and then have the internet
> facility redirect the email to the addressed/targeted site. [...]  I
> don't know about the legal technicalities involved with mixed-mode
> email addressing.  But It Does Work. 

Of course it "works", Steve -- the point it that it doesn't always work
*reliably*, and for people who are on sites several hops away from an
Internet site, propagation delays are often a fact of life.    

> I'd like to learn a little more about email, but I think the topic of
> email goes beyond the scope of the subject and news.groups. 

It's perfectly relevant to the discussion at hand, in which you've
"dismissed" the possibility that people might mail a vote twice because
they're not certain that their vote got through the first time.  If you
don't understand these simple facts about how the net works, you really
don't have any business expecting people to take you seriously when you
try to change more complex things like the guidelines.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

"Wild hearts run out of time"
Newsgroups: news.groups