From: andras@well.sf.ca.us (Andrew Raskin)
Subject: Re: Internet Access in NYC
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:54:18 GMT

AVERNON1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Andrew Vernon) writes:

> >I missed a few posts earlier about this, but somebody asked about net
access
>>in New York. The reply was to skip NYU. But, that doesn't answer
thequestion.
>>Here are two listings for NYC unix boxes from a recent PDIAL.They arent
free,
>>but they probably cost less than using CompuServe and having to pay
$0.25 extra
> >for lots of netmail.
> 

True, but NY 212/718 is not the eaisiest place to get public access unix,
like it has been posted there are two main sites in NYC. 

> ><< mindvox >>
> >name ----------> MindVOX
> >dialup --------> (212) 988-5030 'mindvox' 'guest'
> >area codes ----> 212, 718
> >local access --> NY: New York City
> >fees ----------> Between $10 - $15 per month.  No startup.
> >email ---------> info@phantom.com
> 
> My understanding is that their fee is now $15/month, with no shell access.
> But I can't speak for them, so you'll need to contact them for more info.

MindVox costs $10 with no startup and no other costs, which gets you
unlimited mail, usenet newsgroups, etc,etc all the usual Unixy junk. No
shell for that, their accounts go up to $20 per month for access to
everything like ftp, fsp, etc. $15 a month is for full access with telnet,
irc, etc.

MindVox is one of the biggest sites in the world, but its not really a
public access unix, I have asked them repeatedly and they do not give
shells, they offer all internet services and a lot of other stuff from
their custom software which is very slick but still no way in hell are you
going to get a $ prompt on there, their answer is always something like
"we have 1500 members, 5 of them want shell, if you really want to type
make or cc, then blow $600 on a 386 and install linux or bsdi" and thats
the end of the discussion. Since they are spending most of their time
being poster children for the cyberpunk movement, Mondo, Wired, etc and
being in Forbes, WSJ, etc, they have not focused in on public access unix
much and I don't know if they ever plan to since they seem to be enjoying
big success being what they are, most of which takes place on their local
Forums, Archives and internal services which are not part of the Internet
and not piped out.

On the negative it is wall to wall celebs, hackers, writers, etc, people
with big egos, big attitude problems and if you don't like cyberpunk its
not a place to be. Mixed review, but very happening. Internet services,
but I wouldn't call it a public access unix.

> ><< panix >>
> >name ----------> PANIX Public Accss Unix
> >dialup --------> (718) 832-1525 'newuser'
> >fees ----------> $19/month or $208/year + $40 signup
> 
> Our dialup hunt starts at (212) 787-3100; there are 30 modems behind it.
> The software available includes multiple mailers, newsreaders, shells, irc,
> ftp, telnet, gopher, wais, archie, etc, etc. For your extra few $$ you get
> a full 56k internet connection (ie, no incredibly annoying telnet lag) and
> a Sparc 2...
> 

Panix is a public access unix which I used for a while before changing
accounts. The single biggest problem with panix is that Alexis (hi
Alexis!) is a dunce and I still feel ripped off for ever giving him my money.

If you login to panix you find out that the Sparcstation 2 is there
sitting in a room, and panix is running on a Mac because they have not
figured out how to hook a Sun into the network. Ponder that, Panix runs on
a Mac because they cant figure out how to hook up a Sun, the most common
machine on the internet. And these are people running public access unix? 

Panix always has stupid problems with simple things that should work right
but never do, the second problem I had while there was that nothing is
secured properly. The privledges never worked right, crackers are
constantly in the system because the sysadmins are people who should not
be running a public access unix its that simple.


What's going to happen now? MindVox will never respond since the owners
are too busy getting themselves into Rolling Stone and signing book deals
to read usenet, Alexis will post some fuming reply saying none of what I
said is right and come up with 20 reasons why the Sparcstation II that was
going to be online in September, is still sitting in a corner somewhere,
and the smart people who want pau will get a account with HoloNet which
has local numbers in 212 and 718. 

Holonet works superbly, all the time, the system admins are competant
people who have set up and maintain a first class public access unix
system with local numbers all over the place and its rates are very low
and compete well against what Panix charges for the same services. The
difference being HoloNet works properly. They have a free demo account and
I can't say enough good things about them, if you are looking for public
access unix, give Holonet a try.