HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: noi@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Nittida Nuansri)
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:52:14 GMT

fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:


>In article <1e7hooINNh3c@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> 
>kxc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Khuanchai Chooboonraj) writes:
>>
>>Siam is not a Thai word. Back 100 of years ago when Thai called themself "thai",but when Western/White fleets arrived at Malaya, they asked local ppl there
>>about a nation up north of Malaya and were told that "Siam" lived up there.

>This is interesting. Another theory (proposed by our die-young genius,
>Jit Phumisak) is that Siam is an ancient word; the root of which can be

I'm not sure about both of these theories.  Can someone in Thailand look up
from Thai dictionary please.  Though I'm not sure whether we can get the
meaning that is accepted by those who studies Thai history.

>traced back to the word 'ahom' and 'yueh'. Yueh (or something like that)

That's what we learned in school too.

>>Siam means "Black People". Possibly referred to Khom who lived in Suwannaphum

>Funny huh. How WHITE were the Malay people back then? :-)

Yes, it sounds funny, but it might be possible if we think about a group of
extinct people in the South.  They, who are called Ngoa (same as Rambutan fruit)
or Sagai, have very black skin.  Together with the assumption that back in that
time people in Malaysia knew nothing about the rest of Thai who occupied the
land further north of Satun where Sagai lived.


>Thais' color skin vary almost linearly with the latitude, being very dark
>in the South to very light in the North. As for the language, a researcher
>(Chea Yanchong, who was born in Southern Thailand and now with a Chinese
>ethnic research team in Yunnan) has said that the Thai Southern dialect
>is strikingly similar to the dialect of (Tai) Lue in Yunnan (China).

This is not the only aritcle I've read about this issue.  He might be right,
since he can speak Southern dialect and he has been doing his research in this
topic.  Many Southern words - I mean real dialect,  not the one being used
by people in a city area - are very close to ancient Thai words.  For example,
we call money as "Bia" which is ancient world for "Gnern" or "Satang" being
used as official language.  There are still many words that I can not recall
at the moment which are completely different from Central language and they
are not shortened from other words as most of people understand.  (Most people
said Southern words are shortened from the official words,
it's not always true.  If you got to listen to Southern people from remote areas
you will have a real problem because they use really Southern dialect which is
quite distinct from those which is used by people in city areas who seem to
use Central language with southern style....  Seems confusing, isn't it?)

Nittida
From: itthi@sunburn.sli.unimelb.edu.au (Itthi Trisirisatayawong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Date: 23 Nov 1992 02:27:45 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Dpt of Surveying and Land Information
Reply-To: itthi@sunburn.UUCP (Itthi Trisirisatayawong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunburn.sli.unimelb.edu.au

In article <1992Nov18.040956.6594@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> 
fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:
>The very reason that was used to support the above hypothesis 
>can also be used to challenge itself. 
>If all other provinces surrounding BKK can have their own accents
>(and each of them are different), why can't BKK has one? Why should
>it need to be influenced by Chinese? If all accents surrounding
>BKK are the same then the hypothesis would be more plausible.

I think that their differences are comparatively less than what between
Bangkok's and their's. Not sure if this is true since I can neither
speak nor differentiate any local accents.

Bangkok before King Rama 1 could not have their own accent because there
were very few Thais there, if any (this is what I remember from history).
Not until when King Taksin and King Rama 1 had  moved capital to Thonburi and
Bangkok, so did lots of Thai, that the Chinese experienced any significant
pressure to speak Thai. However I am not saying that the BKK's accent was born
solely from the Chinese's style of speaking. There might be many other 
major factors and the accent has been evolving from intermingling of them.
One factor that I always suspect is that Samoot-Sakorn accent might be the root
of BKK's because the Chakri dynasty was from there. However I have never 
heard how local people there speak so this is just a personal assumption.

Itthi
From: ssg9328@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Samart Srijumnong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:27:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxwFA6.LKx
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Khun Khuanchai had posted that....

>>I was told that Thais (from Thailand) can't get a visa into Ahom State in
>>India, can someone confirm this?

Khun Tawit responded....

>Up to a couple of year ago, it was true; but I don't know about now.
>Not only Thais but all foreign nationals (ie, non-indian) were prohibited.
>The reason was that the local people in Assam, the Ahom-Tai and the
>Naga, were staging guerilla warfares to secede from India. This is a
>left-over mess of the colonial era. It seemed, however, that the
>Indian governemnt dealt with the issue with much more moderation
>than other countries facing with this kind of problem.
>>

I am not sure if this is a fact since in about 1987 a group of us from Chiangmai
led by Khun Kraisree Nimmanhemin traveled to Assum to visit Thai-Aa-HOm+. 
They came back with some photos and stories about such people. No body 
mentioned about any problem with the visa matter. IMO, Assum state should
not have jurisprudence to deal with visa matter. It is a part of India,it
should be the central government in New Delhi who could impose any restriction
to citizens of any particular countries in entering their country. Yet, they
could be able to allow or not allow visitors to go to a certain places in
their territory.

>>one day so I can see it with my own eyes.
>>
>SSPN has only about 2 mill of Tai people (Kuen and Lue). Like I said
>the largest Tai group seems to be the CHuang people ( in KwangSi).
>But the SSPN people still retain pretty much the same cultural
>identity with Thai-Lanna whereas the CHuangs are pretty much sinicized.

>>.............

>Our hope of sorting this mess out is on the shoulders of anthropologists
>like Khun Samart. Too bad out gov doesn't see much benefit on this
>because it's not exportable.

>-Tawit 

OK, Khun Tawit, why don't we start to straight this out now. Don't forget
you have expressed you wish to be my TA. Just kidding! Actually, you are
very knowledgable in this matter yourself. I don't need any resume to
tell me that. It's your well-thought post that does. IMO, the "truth"
itself is less exciting than the process of persuing such truth. Nobody
is in the position to tell what the whole truth is, anyway.

!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
People make history. Historians write it. Teachers teach it. Students read it!
					#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
From: tockgae_@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Suwanvanichkij)
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:12:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.045121.75846@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
>
>
>"Thai" means free.  Before Thailand was called Siam, but since Thailand was
>never colonized by any country we changed from Siam to Thailand meaning land of
>freedom.
>
>Isriya P.
>-- 
>
	I think it was also because the time the name was changed
corresponded to the great nationalist era of pre-World War II.  Marshal
Phibun wanted to build up national pride (often at the expense of various
minorities) and quickly Westernize Thailand.  Keeping with this policy, he
changed the name from Siam to a more western-based one, Thailand.

Vit
From: htk@ipied.tu.ac.TH (Hugh Thaweesak Koanantakool)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: FWD:Bangkok Post Nov.21:Hopewell Project
Date: 21 Nov 1992 13:52:05 +1100
Organization: Mail/News gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: munnari.oz.au

From kamol Fri Nov 20 21:15:00 1992
Received: by ipied.tu.ac.th.tu.ac.th (4.1)
      id AA23068; Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:15:00+0700
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:15:00+0700
From: Kamol Hengkietisak <kamol>
Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:15:00+0700
To: trin
Subject: Bangkok Post Nov 21: Vinai to speed up Hopewell project
Cc: htk
Status: R


TRANSPORT and Communications Minister Col Vinai Sompong said 
yesterday that he will remove State Railway of Thailand Governor 
Sommai Tamthai from the chairmanship of the SRT Supervision and 
Coordination Committee in order to facilitate Hopewell Holding's 
elevated freeway and railway project.
 
Col Vinai said the removal is aimed at improving coordination and 
cooperation between the ministry and Hopewell to get the project 
off the ground.
 
He made the above statements after inspecting the piling site of 
Hopewell at Wat Samian Nari.
 
He said Mr Sommai will be replaced by the Permanent Secretary for 
Transport and Communications Mahidol Chantrangkul.
 
Hopewell has reportedly hired Thai Bauer to handle the piling 
work. But the piling work has been delayed for five months due to 
lack of good coordination and cooperation between Hopewell and the 
coordination committee chaired by Mr Sommai.
 
During the inspection, Col Vinai was briefed by Hopewell project 
manager Stewart Elliot on the delay.
 
At one point, Mr Elliot drew laughs from the minister's team when 
he asked if he could start the project now.
 
He told reporters later that he can start the piling work as soon 
as the ministry gives the permission.
 
He said the project has been delayed for five months now.
 
He also said Hopewell has already submitted the detailed design of 
the project to the SRT's coordination committee.
 
He said the committee has 60 days to approve or reject the plans 
as required by the contract.
 
Meanwhile, Mr Mahidol said Col Vinai wants closer coordination by 
ordering Mr Sommai's removal to help the project get off the 
ground.
 
He said he will comply with the minister's policy of seeing the 
project started immediately.
 
He said he did not want to discuss who is right or wrong (in the 
delay), adding that this can be discussed later under the 
framework of the contract.
 
Asked to comment on the expected removal, Mr Sommai said he did 
not know if he could hold on to his post anymore.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: noi@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Nittida Nuansri)
Subject: Re: Tai
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:06:16 GMT

bunt0003@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:


>Can anyone tell me the reason that many central Thai people often look
>down on Khon Mueng (Lanna-Thai) and Khon Lao (Laanchang) when we all share

You forgot "Khon Tai^" (sothern people).

How about the answer is "because they are envy those people somehow"? :-)
Such as we (not central people) can speak more than one language
while they can not.

Take it easy, please.  I don't mean to create a war.   Just want to say that
may be because of the difference of language used in different part and
people can make fun on it.  I don't think they really mean to look donw
on thers so much.

Nittida
From: anuchit@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Anuchit Anuchitanukul)
Subject: Re: Bangkok Post Nov 23: Doctors leaving govt services in drove
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:01:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov24.013556.11787@news2.cis.umn.edu> bunt0003@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
>That's why I propose we tax these greedy private doctors ten times more. 

Now, why only doctors?  Why not other professions?

>If they still continue to get richer, we'll tax them more and maybe stop

Why don't you just dissolve the whole bath currency or freeze everyone's
bank accounts?  That way everybody will be equal.  Will we then use coupons
instead ... like in what was eastern europe?   (Don't misunderstand me.
I am not rich.  I am perfectly (fit the definition of) poor.  It's just
that I think your point of view is not realistic.)

>funding any medical school student who cannot promise to work for the
>public for at least ten to fifteen years.

Please read my previous article again and by the way, do you know
what they mean by "funding a med student"?  In reality, no single 
Staang (== Thai's penny) goes to students' pocket.  The government
funds the university and the medical school, not directly to students.
The same kind of indirect funding is also applied to students in other
schools, e.g. engineering, science, etc.  but let's think why those
students are not required to work for the government.  

What if med students offer to pay a higher tuition, high enough to cover 
what the goverment used to pay?

Perhaps, Khun Samart can help me here.  I think I read somewhere about
a model of society in which sociologists explain the difference in salary 
by the need for qualification and by the reason that it creates incentive
(for people to improve themselves by education and to take on the hard job).
If everybody gets the same salary, why will anyone care to get a job 
which is difficult (requires 6-7 years of training, 24 hours work, 
for example)?

>How does that sound?

How about trying to reduce the difference between doctor's salary in public
and private hospitals?  Or perhaps, make the job in public hospitals 
more encouraging, e.g. giving doctor something which can compensate
the diffence in salary (I mean, something like gov-own apartment).

-anuchit
From: itthi@sunburn.sli.unimelb.edu.au (Itthi Trisirisatayawong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:26:36 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Dpt of Surveying and Land Information
Reply-To: itthi@sunburn.UUCP (Itthi Trisirisatayawong)
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunburn.sli.unimelb.edu.au

In article <1eaul9INN2g2@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> 
kxc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Khuanchai Chooboonraj) writes:
>
>I heard from someone that Thais in Supanburi speak correct dialet while Thais
>in BKK speak Tae-jewh dialet. I believe that some of the monks I know told me
>that Thais in Burma and Sip Song Panna speak old style thai.

There was an article in "Sil.la.pa - Wat.tar.na.tam" journal few years ago
theroised about Bangkok's accent. I am not sure if the author was Charnwit
Kasetsiri. He proposed that the present Central Thai accent was the one 
spoken by the Chinese in Bangkok before King Rama I time. At that time
the Chinese outnumbered the Thai (Bangkok was trading post
since Ayuddhaya's time so lots of Chinese stayed here while the Thai scattered
because of war with Burma and civil unrest) so eventually the Thai who lived 
in Bangkok adopted this accent. The evidence that support this theory comes 
from the fact every other cities around Bangkok don't use the "Bangkok accent".
They speak noer'. You name it, Kanjanauri or Rajaburi or Supanburi on the west,
Ayutthaya or Angtong on the north, Cholburi or Prajinburi or Rayaong on the 
west all speak noer'. It's funny that Bangkokians think that those people 
speak "Sam.niang Ban.nork" while in fact Ayuddhaya was found by a King from 
Supanburi and it was very likely that Supanburi's accent was spoken in the 
palace for almost 5 centuries!

Itthi
From: mohan@archsci.arch.su.oz.au (Mohan Moorti Pant )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: urbanism--Thailand
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:32:01 GMT
Organization: Design Computing Unit, The University of Sydney


I am at present engaged in the study of urban history of Thailand
and her neighbouring countries. My particular area of interest is 
in the physical structure of the cities and the socio-cultural traditions
that are relevant to explain the development of the historic urban form.
If any of the reader of this newsgroup is interested in this field I would
like to establish contact and exchange ideas and information in this regard.

Mohan
From: TM41@lafibm.lafayette.edu (TM41000)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: YOU NERDY GEEKS!!!
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:17:03 GMT
Organization: Lafayette College
Originator: news@lafcol


     Hi fellas, I'm talking to you, yeah you.  Don't be a nerdy geek,
 get a life.  How about a party?  Let's have some fun.  I'm ready for
 a blast, what about you guys?  Life is too short, party on!  I'll be
 in Bangkok over Christmas break, we can hang out there too.  Come on
 dudes, loosen up.  Don't be too serious, let's meet in Pat Pong.
 How about 11 o'clock tonight, if it's cool with you then it's cool
 with me.  So, it's a deal then.  I'll be very dissapointed if you
 guys don't show up.  If Pat Pong is not an apprpriate place, we can
 meet at Vibration or Hard Rock instead.  You gorgeous girls should
 consider showing up as well, come and experience the night life of
 the city that never sleeps.
                                       Adios Amigos
From: kxc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Khuanchai Chooboonraj)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:14:32 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:

>In article <Bxq4qL.H1t@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mtdg9811@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael T.
> Dunphy) writes:
>>Could anyone tell me what the "thai" in Thailand means?
>>I thought it translated to "free", but a poster to alt.usage.english
>>said it means "grand".
>>
>>Thank you.
>>--
>>Michael Dunphy         dunphy@cs.uiuc.edu
>>
>"Thai" means free.  Before Thailand was called Siam, but since Thailand was
>never colonized by any country we changed from Siam to Thailand meaning land of
>freedom.

Siam is not a Thai word. Back 100 of years ago when Thai called themself "thai",but when Western/White fleets arrived at Malaya, they asked local ppl there
about a nation up north of Malaya and were told that "Siam" lived up there.
Siam means "Black People". Possibly referred to Khom who lived in Suwannaphum
at the time. Later Thai Noi overtook Suwannaphum and has been living there
since then. I often told ppl who asked me "How many Thai are there?" that
there are around 360 million Thai in the world. The reason I said that because
there are 60 million Thais in Thailand, 100 million Thais in Burma, 100 million
thais in India and _possibly_ another 100 million Thais in Sothern China.
King Rama IV let Westerners called Thailand incorrectly and later we changed
our country's name to "Siam" and of course we then changed it back to Thailand.

I read a book about this subject back 15 years ago and I wrote it from my memoryso I hope that I presented all the facts correctly.

cheers,
kc
From: ssg9328@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Samart Srijumnong)
Subject: Major crackdown on flesh trade in Thailand
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:31:10 GMT
Keywords: Thailand, prostitution

See more details in:

From:       clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.sex,clari.news.law.crime
Subject:    Major crackdown on flesh trade in Thailand
Date:       Mon, 16 Nov 92 3:34:46 PST
From: tstil@Auspex.COM (Tim Stilwell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: YOU NERDY GEEKS!!!
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:40:33 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

In article <1992Nov21.163014.3560@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:
>
>My only displeasure with 'amigo' was that he was seeking pleasure
>in BKK instead of criticizing it. Hey man, You need a cool thing
>like that as a prelude to a cool STD/HIV hospital that you'll probably
>be admitted and stay for the rest of your short life, if you don't stop 
>being cool now. And your post will still be valid if you substitute
>'Patpong' with 'XYZ' of most big cities of this world.
>(OK..OK I lied, i did get mad with 'amigo', after all :)
>
>-Tawit (The playful Nerd who knows serious Revenge)
>

This bothers me too, but like I said (apparently in a posting nobody read).
He just said it to make you angry so ignore it.  :-)

I did a little investigative reporting...
I sent him e-mail and it bounced because the account no longer exists.

Either he or a friend is a system administrator.
He or his friend created an account that is all letters and numbers.  
He or his friend deliberately did not include his name anywhere.  
Then he sent his nasty message to SCT and quickly erased the account
so he could hide safely.

I have special computer powers because I am a computer wizard.  You get
that way when you have been cracking computers for ...10 years!  Gee!
Where DID all the time go?   Anyway,  (kids please don't try this at home).
I suppose I could break into his network, hunt down his computer and
account and determine who created it.  Then trash all *his* files for
say the last semester.  Just in time for the holidays and final grades!!!

Should I or shouldn't I?  Hmmmmm...

Gee, Phi Tawit, you should remember to keep a cool heart.  :-)
You don't want me to become incorrigible, do you?


tim
From: s907487@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Chang Onn Lai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Bangkok
Date: 20 Nov 1992 13:20:08 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

 I am going to Thailang, Bangkok this coming December. I am looking for someone in Bangkok who I can contact with and help me in the tour. I will spending two  months in Bangkok. If anyone is interested to become my friend in Bangkok, I 

I will apreciate of your friendship
Thanks!

Chang Onn 
From Australia.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: chana@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (chana.nasamran)
Subject: Re: Law
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:32:04 GMT
Keywords: properties' law

In article <yFG=cgC@engin.umich.edu> orapin@kenning.engin.umich.edu (Orapin  chuanromanee) writes:
>
>  As the writer pointed out, this law is making a lot of problem
>  in Thailand. The writer gave an example of her friend who is
>  a very famous business women. After marriage, she has been
>  forced by law to change her last name. However, her first name
>  happens to be the same as her sister-in-law's. Thus, created a
>  lot of legal and social confusion and the only way she can use her
>  own last name is to divorce her husband. Although both of them
>  do not mine to do so, their parents wouldn't accept the idea.
>  Finally, they came up with a compromise solution.
>  First, she will divorce her husband, then, change
>  her fist name by addition her last name in parenthesis and re-marriage
>  her husband!

Couldn't she just change her first name without divorcing her husband?
-- 

--Chana.
cn@alux2.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: noi@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Nittida Nuansri)
Subject: Re: E-mail address?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:32:36 GMT

mohan@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Sundeep M Mohan) writes:


>Hi,

>I would like to contact Dr. Yanyong Tengamnuay and Prof. Somchai

Dr. Yunyong - fyta@chulkn.chula.ac.th.

Nittida