HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Project on national conflict
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:24:59 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <BrwFsM.Mpy@me.utoronto.ca>, miro@me.utoronto.ca (Miro Kalovsky) writes:

|> 
|> Anybody can get CAROLINA newsletter (I think it is weekly) put together
|> by students of Charles University in Prague.
|> To subscribe Carolina send the e-mail message with subject "Carolina/Eng:
|> Subscription" to this address: CAROLINA@CSEARN.BITNET.
|> The subscription is free.


It would be nice to keep having the CAROLINA newsletter in this newsgroup;
I think there might be a general interest here.

RE: Vaclav Havel.

Someone mentioned him a few postings back (Poet for president).

I can see him personally as a future President of Europe.
Simply because he is NOT a classical politician... 

Konrad Weigl               Tel. +33 93 65 78 63
Projet Pastis              Fax  +33 93 65 76 43
INRIA                      email weigl@sophia.inria.fr
B.P. 93
06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex 
France
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: 00383@bach.udel.edu (Thomas R Rocek)
Subject: Cookbook
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:37:28 GMT



A good source of Czech recipes is _The Czechoslovak Cookbook_ by Joza Brizova,
translated and adapted by Adrienna Vahala, Crown Publishers, New York, 1965.

This is a translation of Varime Zdrave Chutne a Hospodarne, but uses 
ingredients available in the US.     Dobrou chut....Tom Rocek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: tmm@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd M. Michney)
Subject: women's last name endings
Reply-To: tmm@po.CWRU.Edu (Todd M. Michney)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:14:47 GMT


I think I understand the concept, but would appreciate it if someone would
verify or correct my as I attempt to render my mother's/sister's/grandma's etc
version of our last name ...

Our last name is Michney, originally Michny ...
would the feminine version be Michnikova?

Also, I was under the impression that different Slavic languages use slightly
different endings to render last names feminine (all end in -a) -- for
instance, I believe Polish uses -ska for -sky.  Can anyone contribute to or
refute my hunch?
-- 
Todd Michney (tmm) | "Largo al factotum, della citta.  Presto a bottega
 che l'alba e gia.  Ah, che bel vivere, che bel piacere per un barbiere
 di qualita!"
            Figaro, No. 2 Cavatina, _Il barbiere di Siviglia_
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:20:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


In article <1992Jul28.212821.17053@Csli.Stanford.EDU> kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut) writes:
>                           
>'Farina' Fruit Dumplings (Testo Z Krupicove Kase)

>	I reccomend dousing them with butter and cinnammon-sugar, but
>others reccomend ground poppy seeds, stale grated gingerbread, or
>cottage cheese (yuck!).





Yes, (melted) butter and cinammon-sugar. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum!




Tom Marvan.






Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Subject: Re: maps of czecho-slovak
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:11:59 GMT

I've noticed in many of our local bookstores (Crown, Barnes&Noble,
Crock&Brentanos) that with the increase in travel to Czechoslovakia,
they also carry travel brochures and road maps.

Imagine that - travel paraphernalia for Prague!  Never thought I'd see
the day, but glad I have.

-Nance

-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*  | Discussions welcomed. 
att!ihlpk!colucci                               | Trollers discouraged.
From: esr@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Edwin S. Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak names?
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:18:33 GMT

Some years ago when I was first beginning to do some genealogical research in  
what is now Czechoslovakia I attended a seminar session which included some  
brief historical background as it relates to genealogy.  While I don't have  
the notes in front of me at the moment, my recollection is that the western  
most province, which has been called Bohemia in English, is what is referred  
to as C^echy (Czech lands).  The middle province is Morava, Moravia in  
English.  However, the Czech language is spoken in both provinces.  (Slovak  
is spoken in Slovakia and I don't remember what is spoken in Silesia.)

In my mind the blurred distinction is between the area where C^ech is spoken  
and C^echy which is only part of it.  Perhaps a name like C^echomorava would  
describe the C^ech language area? :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: RZSJS@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
Subject: Charles University
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:40:30 GMT

In article <RFANTA.92Jul24171621@newport.cea.berkeley.edu>
rfanta@cea.berkeley.edu (Richard Fanta) writes:
 
>   (Konrad Weigl) writes:
>   |> (The Charles University in Prague is the oldest german university at all,
>      What does make a university german? It's true that after it was founded
>   in 1348, German was the official language. But in 1409 the faculty held a
>   vote to give Czech equal status.
The czech historian Franti^sek Palack'y writes:
"...(Charles university in Prague) ... was from the beginning divided into
four faculties .... and four nations: Czechs, Bavarians, Poles and Saxons"
(each of these nations being subdivided by Palack'y into subgroups)
>   didn't like the decision left the university and founded a new university
>   in Germany (perhaps Heidelberg ?).
Palack'y: "... they founded a new university in Leipzig ...1409 ..."
(The universities in Wien, Heidelberg, Koeln, Erfurt, Krak'ow, ... existed
already)
              v
Stanislav Jan Sarman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: jrehace@andy.bgsu.edu (jan rehacek)
Subject: Re: Female name endings (was Re: Request info on Stasny name.)
Organization: Bowling Green State Univ.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:26:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.204803.28621@natinst.com> stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha) writes:
>The previous was a discussion of what the -ova ending is about in female last
>names.
>In article <1992Jul22.183955.24423@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> peter@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (peter.pavlovcik) writes:
>>On the other hand, the usual meaning of the "-ova" suffix for
>>nouns is "belonging to" or "belogs to". For example "Jan's book"
>>would translate as "Janova kniha". Therefore my mother's last name
>>"Pavlovcikova" could be interpreted (not that it really is) as "belonging
>>to Pavlovcik" (my father's name). I'm just trying to point out where
>>this "-ova" most likely came from.
>
>It is true that the ending -ova is the female possessiv case of certain (male)
>nouns and it's could be the origin of the ending in the name.  In a name,
>though, the ova' is pronounced with a long "a'" rather than the possessiv
>case which is a short "a".  Also, in names that derive from an adjective like
>S^t^astny' (happy) or Zeleny' (green), the female ending is the feminine form
>of this adjectiv, i.e. S^t^astna' or Zelena'.  The same is true for names the
>derive from nouns, i.e. for the name Jahoda (strawberry), the female form is
>Jahodova' (as in strawberry juice) rather then Jahodova (as in the strowberry's
>juice).  In this case, the male name could be considered a noun and the
>female name an adjective.  (I have no idea how non-native speakers can learn
>czech, it would drive me nuts.)
>
>Any linguists on the net care to commnet?
>
>Stepan
>
>-- 
>   Stepan Riha -- stepan@natinst.com
>
  I am not a linguist but I was just about to write something in this
line. The ending "ova" has a 'carka' and doesn't mean that a wife is
(or was in x-th century) possessed. It is just the way how the derived
name is constructed in Czech. But the same objection probably still 
applies - how come that a woman has to bear a derived name (!!). Blame
on all those monks in x-th century who didn't foresee the feminist
movement :-)
 As for Mrs. Bush (pani Bushova),that really is a shame on us,since we should
respect the original name.(We would not be glad hearing about John Hus
or Charles Capek). But I think that this impertinence is partly justified
by the fact that 'Pani Bush' would sound funny in Czech and thus this offence
actually protects her dignity :-)

   But as I said, I don't endorse it. Just explaining.

       Jan Rehacek 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:13:40 GMT

I'd just like to add my two-cents (if even that)...
 
As you may be able to tell, my last name is spelled STASTNY.  A majority
of the "stass-neez" I know of (other than relatives) spell their name
this way.  There are also a few "Stasney's" around.
 
...e
--
| Ed Stastny                   | SOUND Now available via: email (from me), |
| ed@odin.unomaha.edu          | gopher (odin.unomaha.edu), and snailmail. |
| Staff: SOUND NEWS AND ARTS   |===========================================|
|        Newspaper and netzine | Death has far too short a fuse, live!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: RZSJS@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
Subject: Re: Another Name Request
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:35:34 GMT

In article <23267@alice.att.com>
rjs@alice.att.com (Bob Safranek) writes:
 
>        I am looking for any information on either the Safranek or
>        Spevacek families ...
Both are very nice family names:
Safranek <- \v{S}afr\'{a}nek = diminutive of safran (a very common name)
Spevacek <-Zp\v{e}v\'a\v{c}ek = diminutive of singer
 
v
Sarman
From: pboren@rand.org (Pat Boren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:24:12 GMT
Organization: The RAND Corporation

>I first realized the language gap between the descendants of immigrants of
>80-100 years ago and the current Czecho-Slovaks when I used the term "ahoj" to
>my mother, who had never heard it. I learned it from the films of the C-S

Before I visited CS last fall, I picked up a guide book here in the US
(can't recall the name offhand).  And one of the first words I noticed
was "ahoj" (pronounced ah-hoy), meaning goodbye(?).  In the Tatra
mountain areas of northern Slovakia, I met a young woman who spoke
stilted but excellent English, considering she hadn't used it in years.
And she had her toddler saying "ahoj" to me when I left.  So they do
use the word.

Also thought I'd throw in some interesting things the book mentioned
about the differences between Czechs and Slovaks.  Czechs historically
grew up under German rule, whereas Slovaks grew up under Hungarian
rule.  This leads to a difference in 'attitude' about life.
Czechs are more liberal and artsy (not meaning artistic but into art),
not so religious.  Slovaks are the farmers, conservative, and very
religious, predominantly Catholic (Roman or Eastern).

Obviously these are generalizations as summarized by me.  Please don't
take them literally.  Just thought they might shed some light on why
each sees the world differently.  Actually, my experiences in
Slovakia were just the opposite of the generalizations.  The three
families we met were professionals (doctors, teachers), sophisticated,
and not religious (we asked what religion they were, and they looked
confused and said none).  Yet the churches in the area were packed
with people on Sunday.

Glad to see this newsgroup get off the ground.

Pat
-- 

	Patricia Boren
	pboren@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Kdo som ja ?
Followup-To: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Summary: Other economic stuff
Keywords: Slovak
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:15:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.093130.16998@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK> @ee.surrey.ac.uk
(The Man Without a Name) writes:

>    You should read TIME *much* more carefully. It was not *Foreign Aid*
>but Foreign Investment. The numbers wanted to show that generally investors
>have more trust in enterprises in the Czech Republic. It was underlining
>the authors view that the Slovak republic might have more economic problems
>after gaining independence. It's interesting how easily such information can
>be twisted to fit in the frame of 'the Czech get a better deal'.
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>About the industry.
>  It's quite evenly  distributed (the situation you describe could have
>been true in 1918).  The problem is that the industries in Slovakia were
>built under communists (heavy industries, military production, air/water
>polluting chemical factories); the restructuring problem is more serious than in
> the Czech lands. 

Other unforseen economic problems are bound to arise, since the
economies have been tied together for so long.  If you're building
say, a train, the steel comes from Slovakia, is probably sent to
somewhere in Bohemia for manufacturing, sent back to Bratislava or
somewhere else in Slovakia for more materials, etc., and may cross the
border six or eight times before you have a finished locomotive (which
stands a good chance of being used in Slovakia).  Now that there will
be two seperate economies, there will be an import/export tax each
time...
And that blade cuts both ways-- to quote, 'Transmissions and other
parts for Czech-built Skoda cars are made in Bratislava; nearly 80% of
the gasoline used in the Czech lands is produced in Slovakia;
two-thirds of nonexported Slovak rolled steel, and 90% of its iron
products, are sold to the Czech republic.' (D. Rocks, Chronicle
Foreign Service)

-/-/-/-/-/-/
Kyle
'Women: a mistake?  Or did He do it to us on purpose?!' --D. van Horne
/-/-/-/-/-/-
From: @ee.surrey.ac.uk (null)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Kdo som ja ?
Keywords: Slovak
Date: 22 Jul 92 09:31:30 GMT
Organization: University of Surrey, Guildford, England

In article <g89w5153.1.711703124@giraffe.ru.ac.za>, g89w5153@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR RR WERTLEN) writes:
|> Hi,
|> 
|> I would like to know if it is good or bad that the Czechoslovak republic is 
|> being split. As I understand it, the Czechs have been very dominating in the 
|> fields of politics and business, esp. I recall some trade congress a couple 
|> of years back, where some 90 delegates represented CS, and of whom only 4 
|> were Slovak ( the rest being Czech or Moravian). Further almost all industry 
|> is situated in the Czech part. There is an article in TIME about this. One 
|> of the figures I can recall is Foreign Aid (Czech $550m, Slovak $150m).
   
    You should read TIME *much* more carefully. It was not *Foreign Aid*
but Foreign Investment. The numbers wanted to show that generally investors
have more trust in enterprises in the Czech Republic. It was underlining
the authors view that the Slovak republic might have more economic problems
after gaining independence. It's interesting how easily such information can
be twisted to fit in the frame of 'the Czech get a better deal'.

About the congress.
  It's hard to comment on that (how did you find out that 90 were Czech?
Did you ask each of them?). But even in the days of communism delegates
didn't represent CS but their companies. OK, more companies situated in 
Czech lands sent (and paid for) their delegates. What does it say about
Czech/Slovak relationship? 

About the industry.
  It's quite evenly  distributed (the situation you describe could have
been true in 1918).  The problem is that the industries in Slovakia were
built under communists (heavy industries, military production, air/water
polluting chemical factories); the restructuring problem is more serious than in
 the Czech lands. 
|> 
     

  George (Jirka) Matas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: RZSJS@ibm.rz.tu-clausthal.de
Subject: Franti^sek Bl'ahov'a,boy named Sue
Organization: Rechenzentrum der TU CLAUSTHAL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:37:21 GMT

biSEXual names:
(WYNNE WYN VIVIEN MERLE MEREDITH MARION LYNN KERETH JEAN GALE GAIL ENDREDE
 CAROL CAMILLE)
Do you know any in czech or slovak?
However a little asymmetric are the first names, there is no "Ane^zk",
bl'ahov'a Franti^sek!
              v
Stanislav Jan Sarman
From: 89b0016@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: slovak and ukrainian languages
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:01:55 GMT
Organization: UNSW School of Accounting

In article <1275@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>, hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:
> I have a question to the Slovak speakers. Which language is
> closer to Slovak - Czech or Ukrainian?
> 
...
> Is the converse true? Is Ukrainian the language closest to Slovak?
> (I know the alphabets are different - I am referring to the 
> spoken language.)

Ukrainian is an East Slavic Language (together with Byelorussian and 
Russian), whilst Slovak is in the West Slavic Group. The West Slavic
Group consists of three sub-groups: Czecho-Slovak (including Czech
and Slovak), Lekhitic (consisting of Polish, Kashubian and Slovincian)
and Sorb-Lusatian (consisting of Upper and Lower Sorb-Lusatian).
Although this tends to suggest that Slovak is closest to Czech, as indeed
it is in a grammatical and structural sense, the fact that we
are also talking about geography here means that the issue is 
not necessarily as clear cut. I have noticed myself that I can understand
Slovak much more easily than Czech. In fact, the Czech language is
very difficult to understand for me, since - to my ears - it has
a very Germanic accent. Anyway, back to Slovak. The interesting
thing about Slovak is that it is split up into quite varied dialectal 
areas. Although still essentially the same language, the western
dialects are closer to Czech, the eastern closer to Ukrainian, and 
(I think) the central ones are easiest for Poles to understand.
The natural intermingling which has happended over the centuries, and
especially during the time of Austrian rule, has allowed these languages
to undergo quite an extensive process of exchange, both in speech-pattern
and vocabulary. Although the languages are still reasonably homogenous,
and Slovaks are probably still best understood by Czechs (given that
they comprise the same sub-group), it is hardly surprising that you
(just as I) find the Slovak language at times almost like our own. 

The Encyclopedia Brittanica, although never perfect, has a 99% accurate
desctiption of the Slavic languages (at least the last edition I looked
at did), and it is that to which I refer you.

Cheers,
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Czernkowski, Lecturer, School of Accounting, University of NSW
PO Box 1, Kensington NSW 2033, Australia
VOICE: +61 2 697 2435   FAX +61 2 662 6130   HOME +61 2 663 8150
eMail: 89b0016@csdvax.csd.unsw.oz.au
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From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:51:40 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Jul22.183955.24423@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> peter@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (peter.pavlovcik) writes:
>In article <84075@netnews.upenn.edu> kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz) writes:
>>
>>Dear Nance,
>>It a historic tradition for the Slavic languages , that woman's name is
>>written differently from man's. This tradition traces back to 8th. 9th
>>century and has obviously nothing to do with commies or especially
>>with any form of harassment or discrimination. It can be understood in
>>a broader context: namely gender plays more important role in grammar
>>of slavic languages and "female" nouns have usually an "a" ending.
>>
>>Chris
>
>On the other hand, the usual meaning of the "-ova" suffix for
>nouns is "belonging to" or "belogs to". For example "Jan's book"
>would translate as "Janova kniha". Therefore my mother's last name
>"Pavlovcikova" could be interpreted (not that it really is) as "belonging
>to Pavlovcik" (my father's name). I'm just trying to point out where
>this "-ova" most likely came from.
>
>I found that the strangest part of this -ova business is when the
>Czecho-Slovak papers refer to foreign names this way. For example
>Mrs. Busch would be referred to as "Pani Buschova". Arrgh!!
>
>			Peter Pavlovcik, peter@iexist.att.com
Yes, as a novice at investigating my family history, I found my Father's
sister near Bratislava, and her name was Kalivodova, while mine being
Kalivoda.  This was an interesting linguistic feature of slovakian culture.


*******************************************************
* Teddy Kalivoda  ------------ tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu *
* 	University Computing & Network Services       *
*	  Institute of Higher Education (Drtobe)      *
*                                                     *
* "Philosophers disagree about everything"            * 
*       --Henrikus Aggripus Cornelius von Nettlesheim *
*******************************************************
From: weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 22 Jul 92 09:25:22 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <1992Jul21.095659.20204@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK>, @ee.surrey.ac.uk (null) writes:
|> Bohemia is of latin
|> origin. It's also close to the German Bohmen (bringing memories of the
|> WWII protectorate <end hence not liked by some>).

However, the fact that about 2.5-3 million people of german origin
lived in the western part of Czechoslovakia up to WWII, descendants of immigrants 
dating back to the 12th century, I believe; they used the term Boehmen a
lot, so that may also have furthered the use of the word Bohemia.
(The Charles University in Prague is the oldest german university at all,
not Heidelberg, as is often claimed)


Konrad Weigl               Tel. +33 93 65 78 63
Projet Pastis              Fax  +33 93 65 76 43
INRIA                      email weigl@sophia.inria.fr
B.P. 93
06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex 
France
From: rockyh@gyro.wv.tek.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Test-Ignore
Date: 29 Jul 1992 17:17:22 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


teSt
From: 89b0016@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: the country called "Bohemia"
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:21:15 +1000
Organization: UNSW School of Accounting

I find it amazing (to follow on from a previous thread) that 
the name of the Western part of Czecho-Slovakia is at question.
I think the very existence of the issue stems from the 
inconsistency of the English language. I know that in 
Polish, it is called Czechy, and in Czech and Slovak probably
something similar, but the English called it Bohemia.

Alright, so why not be consistent ?:

Bohemia -- > Bohemian (not "Czech")
just as in Polish (and I presume similarly in both Czech and Slovak)
Czechy --> czeski

As to whether Moravia is to be included in C^echy (?), take it or leave it.
I think that one can easily use the name Bohemia to include both Bohemia 
proper and Moravia.


Robert C

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Czernkowski      89B0016@csdvax.csd.unsw.oz.au    ____________________
Lecturer                                                |         *          |
School of Accounting                                    |            *       | 
University of NSW                                       |      *   .         |
PO Box 1                VOICE: + 61 2 697 2435          |                    |  
Kensington  NSW  2033   FAX:   +61 2 663 6130           |          *         |
AUSTRALIA               HOME:  +61 2 663 8150 (voice)    --------------------
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