HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Peter Murphy's new album
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:14:33 GMT
Organization: ON Technology, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2

There seem to be two kinds of Peter Murphy fans- the ones who desperately
long for the old Bauhaus/Dali's Car days, and the ones who like his more
upbeat material.  If you're the latter, you'll enjoy his new album
immensely.
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso)
Subject: Re: Gothlist and sarcasm..
Keywords: subscriptions
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:07:57 GMT

In article <mcdonghj.703166199@unix2.tcd.ie> mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie (Nascent Virion.....) writes:
>In <1992Apr10.183216.3034@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr9.221528.5818@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ieya@byron.u.washington.edu (Morpheus Laughing) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr9.181708.18387@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>>>>
>>>>I'm new to this group and appear to have come in at a rather interesting
>>>>point.  Question:  What is Corey's GothList?  How do I get it?  And who
>>>>the hell is Corey?
>>>it's a list of goths, duh. :-) you get it by waiting for the first
>>>of the month or e-mailing me. and who am i? self-appointed resident
>>>know-it-all :-)
>>Excuse me for being vague, but what I meant to say was:
>>Who is this Corey that he is appointed God-of-Goth's?  (If he is.)
>If you look at the ':-)' This means sarcasm. Corey is no friggin' God of Goths.
>Please learn to take a joke.

Sorry, I forgot my own ";-)"  ;-)


>>Does this group rigidly follow this GothList as a rule?
>Like Hell.
>It's just a list of bands that 'could' be considered gothic.
>It's just to give people a list of similar bands of the same genre.
>BTW Corey add 'Paradise Lost' to the list. Sound like the Neph gone trash.

								JFS


-- 
"The only way to true inspiration is the study of TedDo.  And lots
of MauMau, of course."  The Elvis Lectures
"I am not the False Bob, I am a free man."  The Book of FalseBobs
"Since the introduction of MauMau, HP sales have skyrocketed." Book of MauMau
From: andrewmu@castle.ed.ac.uk (Andrew Murdoch)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The world is a good or bad place ?
Keywords: morality life chaos love cat
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:09:18 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University


  :The world is a good or bad place?

  Personally I think it is a very bad place, there is sickness, poverty,
worry and even just boredom which all combine to make the average
person's life quite a miserable thing. The strange thing is that not all
people notice this fact; they live in a cushioned almost drugged state
of awareness, in which they cannot see the terrible happen around them.
Has anyone ever notice how incredibly boring it is to just walk down the
street. You have nothing but your mind for company and all you can think
about is where you are going and how long it is going to take you to get
there, and if that isn't bad enough, you have to get deafened by traffic
and road-works, harrassed by beggars and drunks and ignored by everyone
else.
  Each moment of every day we suffer some kind of pain. I have a sore
neck at the moment and watery eyes after looking at a screen too long.
Do you? Are you in any way uncomfortable? Is something worrying you?
This is the agony of the mundane. This is life. Life is boring and
tiresome and painful.

  Still, it's better than oblivion (I think).

I am alive, I am a human, it is my right
-- 
| Andrew A. Murdoch                                  andrewmu@castle.ed.ac.uk |
From: mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie (Nascent Virion.....)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The Cure are Goth.
Keywords: subscriptions
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:21:41 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <1992Apr9.181708.18387@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:

>>	flame war as to what is or isn't gothic. Disintegration anyhow is quite
>>	a 'gothic' album. Also many goths listen to the Cure.
>>	Gothicism has already been defined 'musicwise' as being really what each 
>>	person wants it to be.
>>	As far as some are concerned the Sisters, the Nephilim and Siouxie are the
>>	epitome of Goth, but come on. Read Coreys GothList.

>I'm new to this group and appear to have come in at a rather interesting
>point.  Question:  What is Corey's GothList?  How do I get it?  And who
>the hell is Corey?

Corey has compiled a list of bands that are either 'Gothic' (Which I stated
above is a very subjective term, and bands that are related to it by
virtue of their sound.. Loud Guitar, Interesting lyrics references.
You can get the gothlist from Corey at:
n8442349@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu
Corey also manages the FAQ for the Sisters as well as keeping all the 
lyrics and discographies.
Corey is 'just' [No offense Corey :-)] a sisters fan who has gone to
the trouble of doing this.

>I'm fascinated by the concept that Banshees are Gothic, especially is the
>Cure isn't.  Does this mean that Hyena is not Gothic?  (Bob Smith on
>Guitar)  Banshees started as punk, moved to "light punk", and are now
>as Pop as anyone.
Here we go again....
What is Goth and What isn't. ????
I didn't say the Cure aren't and that the Banshees are, I was just bring 
others generalisations to life.

>When I think of Gothic I think of Bauhaus.  
So do I....
>Not in your epitome list?
Sorry I forgot it. Yes I do like Bauhaus and have been listening to the for
nearly 3 years.. (A NEW fan).
And yes Bela Lugosi's dead IS one of the most classic Goth tunes of all
time.
>Fascinating.  
Smart Ass. :-)

>Will someone please explain what's going on to this neophyte.
						     ^^^^^^^^^
						     We'll get on splendidly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-John Mc Donagh.                   ~~                         {Nascent Virion}
mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie              ~~                        "In Fear of Fear"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The next performance is a comedy, Beware of the soothsayers sop
 Untangle the pearls, Don't hinder the pages, Beat the reaper to the crop."
From: gbtaylor@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gail B. Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The world is a good or bad place ?
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:09:57 GMT
Organization: UB

Oh, regarding boredom:

I don't believe in it...funny thing, ever since I created that belief, 
I have never been bored!  :)

Bored?  Look for details that are silly...strange...wierd...

	Pretend you are a child...how would a three year old see things...
		First off, they couldn't see the way you are, they are a
		lot shorter...

	Use your imagination...what is going on in the life of that person
		you are sitting across from?
			What is the history behind the building you are in?
		I don't mean 'find out', I mean IMAGINE!  Makes places more
			interesting...

	Name 15 things (silly ones included) that you have never had the 
		gall to do...do one.  (ooooo, challenge, that!)

	Pay attention...take a moment, savor it...what are you sensing?
		What are the details your eye sees that you normally scan
			over?
		What does your skin feel, from your surroundings?
		What are your hands and fingers touching/feeling?
		What are the sounds around you?  Close your eyes, and
			listen as closely as you can.......
		What can you smell....everyplace smells different...and 
			each differently, at different times...
			
		take a moment, and make a mental photo of it...find the 
	good, the beauty, the sillyness, the humor, the obsurdity, the
	romance, the potential.........

And you don't even need drugs for all of this!!!!!!!

:)


g
From: mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie (Nascent Virion.....)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: The Cure are Goth.
Keywords: subscriptions
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:09:31 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <pdlemass.702719279@unix2.tcd.ie> pdlemass@unix2.tcd.ie (Something original) writes:

>The Cure are not Gothic - have you not heard of the imtense hatred shown
>to Cureheads by Goths?

Peter,
	You know that the Cure are not one of my fav. bands but please don't start a
	flame war as to what is or isn't gothic. Disintegration anyhow is quite
	a 'gothic' album. Also many goths listen to the Cure.
	Please be wary what you say.
	Gothicism has already been defined 'musicwise' as being really what each 
	person wants it to be.
	As far as some are concerned the Sisters, the Nephilim and Siouxie are the
	epitome of Goth, but come on. Read Coreys GothList.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-John Mc Donagh.                   ~~                         {Nascent Virion}
mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie              ~~                        "In Fear of Fear"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Carrion child, prey for me, Play your wild card,
 See your house come down around your head..." -Sisters of Mercy- Possession
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso)
Subject: Re: The Cure are Goth.
Keywords: subscriptions
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:17:08 GMT

In article <mcdonghj.702742171@unix2.tcd.ie> mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie (Nascent Virion.....) writes:
>In <pdlemass.702719279@unix2.tcd.ie> pdlemass@unix2.tcd.ie (Something original) writes:
>
>>The Cure are not Gothic - have you not heard of the imtense hatred shown
>>to Cureheads by Goths?
>
>Peter,
>	You know that the Cure are not one of my fav. bands but please don't start a
>	flame war as to what is or isn't gothic. Disintegration anyhow is quite
>	a 'gothic' album. Also many goths listen to the Cure.
>	Please be wary what you say.
>	Gothicism has already been defined 'musicwise' as being really what each 
>	person wants it to be.
>	As far as some are concerned the Sisters, the Nephilim and Siouxie are the
>	epitome of Goth, but come on. Read Coreys GothList.
>

"Let us define out terms."  Philos 101

I'm new to this group and appear to have come in at a rather interesting
point.  Question:  What is Corey's GothList?  How do I get it?  And who
the hell is Corey?

I'm fascinated by the concept that Banshees are Gothic, especially is the
Cure isn't.  Does this mean that Hyena is not Gothic?  (Bob Smith on
Guitar)  Banshees started as punk, moved to "light punk", and are now
as Pop as anyone.

When I think of Gothic I think of Bauhaus.  Not in your epitome list?
Fascinating.

Will someone please explain what's going on to this neophyte.

						John F Sasso



-- 
"The only way to true inspiration is the study of TedDo.  And lots
of MauMau, of course."  The Elvis Lectures
"I am not the False Bob, I am a free man."  The Book of FalseBobs
"Since the introduction of MauMau, HP sales have skyrocketed." Book of MauMau
From: cliffs@gaffa.East.Sun.COM (Cliff Skolnick)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The world is a good or bad place ?
Keywords: morality life chaos love cat
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:20:57 GMT
Organization: SMCC
NNTP-Posting-Host: gaffa

In article <umage.702592983@mcl> umage@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Morticia Lungbark) writes:
>
> am curious in the opinions of this group;
>
>One can see from the title what my question is, so i will rephrase it thus:
>Is the generall person better off living here on Planet Earth, or never
>being born ?
>	i assert that most people would be happier in nonexistence.
>Yes, there are exceptions, i don't ignore the people who are really happy
>and find true love and thrive and all that; but it seems their numbers are
>so few that thr probability of being one of them is really small, so i am kindof
>stuck weighing the slight chance of happiness against the rest of this place,
>			i'm torn.
>
>if you have time, i'm curious in your ideas.
>mage

I think you are right...But without missery one how would one know what
happiness is?  Life in general is depressing for almost everyone I know,
but there are certain moments in life that are happy.  Like when I heard
there was a new Sisters of Mercy release, even thought it will be sad
after I listen to it, it was a pleasure to listen to it.

Something happy can come out of almost any bad experience, even if
they joy is for someone else.  Non-existence would rob the world of
your pain thereby making the happy people less happy since happy would
be more the norm than the exception.  If all unhappy people vanished,
a good portion of formerly happy people might just be considered unhappy.

"The world is a cannibal, but that's no reason to be a jerk." - paraphrased
from Adrian Belew


--
Cliff Skolnick | "You're all on your own now. Don't you think that it's
cliffs@sun.com | a shame, but you're the only one responsible to take
(716) 385-5049 | the blame. So what ya gonna do when the novelty
I think. I am. | has gone." -- Joy Division
From: umage@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (1. lock the target)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins older stuff
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:28:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcl.umage.702851293

I kindof like the new Cocteau Twins stuff. But i think their Very Latest is
kindof silly.   

Anyway, along the vein of Garlands (Not their first album, i am pretty sure)
you might give a listen to Treasure. this my favorit album of theirs.
 
i would warn to stay away from the really old stuff like Victoria Land  or
The Moon and the Melodies.  It is kindof monotonous.  
Love's Easy tears is also an excellent 4 song album.
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: n9146269@henson.cc.wwu.edu (OverLord of Underlings)
Subject: Cocteau Twins older stuff
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:14:49 GMT

I have heard some of there latest stuff and was revolted... too pretty etc etc

But a friend of mine came over and plopped their "first" CD down on my 
desk and said, "I thought that you might have an inaccurate picture of who
these guys really are... try this." It was Garlands, including the Peel
Sessions and two other tracks...

THIS CD KICKS! Damn it is good... What else of theirs runs along the same
track??? I haven't been able to STOP listening to Garlans and I'd like some
more...

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
RWD
_O_  Ryan Walker Davis >> The HeadHunter >> OverLord of Underlings
 |   n9146269@henson.cc.wwu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: smustain@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mike Mustaine)
Subject: Re: Goth-neophyte-idiotic-question list
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:59:14 GMT


Some suggestions---

BAUHAUS--get the collection, if you've got the cash--or try the peel sessions
         one if you don't.  Both are good cross-sections of their work.

SISTERS OF MERCY-- First and Last and Always--  One of the best Goth albums, 
                   at least in my opinion.

THE SWANS--I don't know too much about 'em, but I've got the White Light.....
           album, and I like it.

PETER MURPHY-- Any solo stuff--may not be the epitome of GOTH anymore, but the
               music is great and Peter's voice still sounds goth.

That's all I can come up with for now--(I haven't had my coffee yet), but I
would have to say that at least in my opinion these are some of the more crit-
ical goth-type stuff one cannot be without.  Best of luck to your friend :-).
                                                  HEATHER




-- 
Mike Mustaine                       |"...they also rip the throats out of
Starving College Student (tm)       | two-bit quacks who spew psychobabble
smustain@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  | just to hear themselves talk."
stang@cis.ohio-state.edu            |     - Northern Exposure
From: peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The world is a good or bad place ?
Keywords: morality life chaos love cat
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:28:26 GMT
Reply-To: peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester

Re: Non-existence as a good thing.

You only get to exist for a finite time and you will be non-existent
for a whole lot longer (whooo maybe infinity) savour your existence
while you can.
You just wasted some more time reading this...
--
Peter Wake
From: egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Peter Murphy's new album
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:50:00 GMT


	Peter Murphy is scheduled to release his forth album later this month.
It is to be entitled HOLY SMOKE.  I read a review of it in DETAILS magazine
this month.  It was not very explicit, but I believe the review was overall
good.  I can not wait.

					Later,

					Brian Egras
From: ccsw@bristol.ac.uk) (Steff *8)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Bob Smith
Date: 7 Apr 92 09:01:55 GMT
Organization: University of Bristol, England


Anyone catch ob Smith (The Cure) on The Mary Whitehouse Experience, last night?
Really funny!!!!

Steff  *8)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: sjohnson@faulen.asd.sgi.com (Scott Johnson)
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins older stuff
Organization:  Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:36:15 GMT

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it.  Could someone
list all of the Twins' CDs that exist.  Also, what is in the Twins CD Box
set?

Thanks,

sj		"Your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight" - m
From: cdk7308@zeus.tamu.edu (Parthis Mendacior)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: HOLY SMOKE (Peter Murphy)
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:04:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

just got the new PM release...

HOLY SMOKE
Keep Me From Harm		<- really, fuckin' good!
Kill the Hate			<- damn good, as well...
You're So Close			<- i liked it...
The Sweetest Drop		<- even better than the first two...
Low Room			<- on CD, i skip it...
Let Me Love You			<- pretty good.
Our Secret Garden		<- interesting, still wonder if i like it...
Dream Gone By			<- more up beat, good...
Hit Song			<- oh, well, can't win 'em all...


The cover makes good ole Pete look like he desparetely needs sleep...
Nice pic of Pete taking a drag... (wonder what brand...)
Pic of Pete loungin' in the dead leaves, (worth scanning)
Pic of Mr. Murphy's feet...hmmm...
Pic of Pete with flairing coattails and arms out and up...
funky effects pic of Pete and his hair...

More of the Should the World... starfish imaging... not in sync w/his image tho.
Worth buying for the Bauhaus/Murphy fans if they liked both Pete's old and
new stuff... it's a kinda mix of Deep and Should the World... but i like it
didn't care much for his post-Bauhaus/pre-Love Hysteria stuff...
But i liked this...

-chad
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso)
Subject: Re: The Cure are Goth.
Keywords: subscriptions
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:32:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.221528.5818@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ieya@byron.u.washington.edu (Morpheus Laughing) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.181708.18387@mcs.anl.gov> sasso@flounder.phy.anl.gov (John F. Sasso) writes:
>>
>>I'm new to this group and appear to have come in at a rather interesting
>>point.  Question:  What is Corey's GothList?  How do I get it?  And who
>>the hell is Corey?
>it's a list of goths, duh. :-) you get it by waiting for the first
>of the month or e-mailing me. and who am i? self-appointed resident
>know-it-all :-)

Excuse me for being vague, but what I meant to say was:

Who is this Corey that he is appointed God-of-Goth's?  (If he is.)
Does this group rigidly follow this GothList as a rule?

duh ;-)


							JFS



-- 
"The only way to true inspiration is the study of TedDo.  And lots
of MauMau, of course."  The Elvis Lectures
"I am not the False Bob, I am a free man."  The Book of FalseBobs
"Since the introduction of MauMau, HP sales have skyrocketed." Book of MauMau
From: andromed@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: YAHOO SKYDIVE
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:49:41 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


  *yahoo skydive*

get me at andromed@sleet.atm.dal.ca

  later....  hope you get it...7709
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
From: douellet@beach.csulb.edu (Daniel Ouellette)
Subject: Re: London Calling
Keywords: goth 
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:07:32 GMT

  I don't know what happened.... I must have been drinking Draino again. In my
last post I refered to a band called London Calling. I lied, their name is
actually London After Midnight. Don't ask how I managed to screw that one up...
Sorr for any confusion this caused. :-)
-Daniel
From: tcrooks@zeus.calpoly.edu (Timothy A. Crooks)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: The world is a good or bad place ?
Keywords: morality life chaos love = no tv
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:37:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.1992Apr08.183716.167107
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo


	In reference to what was and will be, our tv's should be burned.
In their place will follow a monitor for chosen films and videos. This
would destroy the industry from crap programming for advertizing.
	Now I know we'll never get rid of ads, but let's free the thousands
linked forever hopelessly to "the tube"

	timmin
From: shishka@coos.dartmouth.edu (Rich Yeung)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Cocteau Twins older stuff
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:47:09 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

sjohnson@faulen.asd.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:

>I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it.  Could someone
>list all of the Twins' CDs that exist.  Also, what is in the Twins CD Box
>set?

>Thanks,

>sj		"Your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight" - m


everything they've recorded are on CDs:
-Garlands LP (import CD has 4 Peel Session tracks and 2 bonus tracks)
-Lullabies EP*
-Peppermint Pig EP*
-Head Over Heels LP
-Sunburst and Snowblind EP*
-The Spangle Maker EP*
-Treasure LP
-Aikea-Guinea EP*
-The Pink Opaque LP (compilation)
-Tiny Dynamine EP*
-Echoes in a Shallow Bay EP*
-Victorialand LP
-Love's Easy Tears EP*
-Blue Bell Knoll LP
-Iceblink Luck EP*
-Heaven or Las Vegas LP
-Heaven or Las Vegas EP (promotional only)
-Rare Tracks EP (comes in the Box Set only)*
*in the Box Set

-R.



--
|| ______  ____________  Rich Yeung                 |  i'm too sexy for  ||
|| \    / ____________  HB 3715 Dartmouth College   |     this .sig      ||
||  \  / ____________  Hanover, NH 03755            | ------------------ ||
||   \/ ____________  shishka@coos.dartmouth.edu    |   STRIKE A POSE.   ||
From: eigenstr@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Todd R. Eigenschink)
Subject: New Sisters release
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:36:28 GMT

OK...so call me stupid.  I was under the impression that the new
Sisters album was going to be released today (April 13)...but nobody
around here has heard of it.  Was I suckered into believing that that
was the U.S. release date, and it's actually for somewhere else?

Talk about disappointments...I've been waiting too long for it
already... :)

--
Todd Eigenschink (eigenstr@CS.Rose-Hulman.Edu)
Assistant System Manager, News Administrator
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, Terre Haute, IN
"G++ is to C++ as Turbo Pascal is to Pascal--it's a great compiler,
 but for a language other than C++."  -- Fred Sullivan
Newsgroups: alt.gothic