HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:36:18 GMT

In article <7590005@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>                                             People who move here can be from
>many places with high property values but we seem in the PNW to pick on the
>people from California. I prefer to use the truth to fight the influx. Tell
>them how much it rains. How big the slugs are and how they will eat your kitty
>if you do not take care. etc etc
>
I think Californians are held in low regard for several *rational* reasons.
Obviously, this is painting a whole group of people with the same brush,
but they encourage it (see reason #3):
1) Lack of regard for their new community.  This consists of building
stucco homes with tile roofs (makes about as much sense as a log cabin in
Palm Springs), putting up large fences and walls with security gates,
destroying every living thing on a building lot before constructing
these items, therefore leading to erosion.
2) Desire to change their new community into the one they came from.
This includes lobbying for installation of natural gas lines, sewers and
water mains.  The last two are especially expensive for their neighbors
who are then forced to connect to them as well at high cost.  Also the
refusal to patronize "mom & pop" stores, leading to their failure and
the increase of chain stores.  Also, the use of tremendous amounts of
outdoor lighting, leading to vast inreases in light pollution.
3) Poor driving habits.  This includes blowing stop signs, pulling out
in front of other cars from driveways and side streets, driving 10-20
miles an hour below the speed limit, cutting others off in traffic, etc.
Combined with this, they hold onto their California license plates as long
as possible (usually illegally) thus depriving their new "home" state of
badly needed highway funds.  THIS ALSO MAKES THEM HIGHLY VISIBLE AND
CONTRIBUTES TO PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM.

Now, before I'm flamed from here to Calexico and back, let me point out
that not ALL Californians are offenders in all categories above.  Many
are very nice people and an asset to their new communities.  But, the
bad apples are ruining the reputation of all, so it is up to the good
Californians to help the native people of Washington, Oregon and other
injured states track these violators down and kill them.
Thank you.

>
>What I find most interesting about this issue is how a person can move to the
>PNW and five years later act and think like they have lived here their whole
>life. They seem to conveniently forget that alot of people moved here from
>other places.
>
Agreed.  My family came to Pierce County, Washington 120 years ago, and
now we act like we were born here. :-)

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp              | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!stephsf!tacoma!dcb |"Stainless steel bolts are  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232       | ferrous but non-magnetic!" |
From: bryanh@hplsla.hp.com (Bryan Hoog)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:09:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.3440050
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

>
>	1. What is the insect and arachnid life like?  In other words,
>when I get the urge to empty a can of "Raid" on my fellow life forms,
>what targets will be available?  I'm mostly interested in which ones
>I will find indoors -- I'm willing to show mercy to those that stay
>outside.
>

    Fleas!  Lots and lots of fleas!  By far the most annoying indoor pest.  
 I detest chemical warfare, but I was forced into battle last summer to
 reclaim my house.  And because of the mild winter, the fleas are supposed
 to be even worse this summer!

    As far as other indoor pests, I never kill the odd spider, and the spiders
 control most everything else.  They act as a good indicator; more than a
 couple spiders, and you know you've got a bigger problem (whatever the
 spiders are munching on).

    -Bryan
From: stu@voodoo.boeing.com (Stuart Liddle)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:14:00 GMT
Reply-To: stu@voodoo.boeing.com
Organization: BoGART System Gadgets

In article <1992Apr9.005540.22305@PA.dec.com>, mayo@pa.dec.com (Bob Mayo) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr8.163618.1237@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
|> >Combined with this, they hold onto their California license plates as long
|> >as possible (usually illegally) thus depriving their new "home" state of
|> >badly needed highway funds.  THIS ALSO MAKES THEM HIGHLY VISIBLE AND
|> >CONTRIBUTES TO PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM.
|> 
|> Are you sure this isn't universally true of all movers?  I have a 5.3 mile
|> drive from work to home, on not-so-busy streets, and see about 3-4 Washington
|> license plates on an average day.  

Well, there's a simple solution to this problem of out-of-state license plates.
Just do like I do, when you happen to see one near your home, follow them to
their house and get the license # and the house #.  Next, wait for one month
and return to that house.  If the car still has the out-o-state plate on it,
just provide the information to the state patrol.  They will be more than 
happy to contact these people and have them purchase WA plates and maybe even
pay a small fine to boot!  This is especially satisfying when the vehicle is
a Mercedes or BMW.
-- 
________________________________________
Stuart Liddle      (206) 865-6559 (wk)  \ "Growing older is a Major Lifestyle
BoGART Project     stu@voodoo.boeing.com \ Trend, potentially even bigger than
Boeing Comp. Svcs..uunet!bcstec!voodoo!stu\ cable television." - Dave Barry
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Keywords: boring platitudes
Organization: Cores 'R Us
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:59:17 GMT

In article <7590004@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>Why the hell are you guys so hostile. It is a free country and this person 
>who asked a question deserves a civil answer.

Well, if it's a free country, why can't I give a sneering, hostile answer if
I want to?

>                                              So the guy wants to be a lawyer,
>so what. I am sure I could find problems with your occupations.

True; most occupations create problems which they then attempt to solve.
Lawyers are just better at it than, say, cabinet-makers, or programmers.
The latter is catching up fast, though.  What do you do :) ?

>                                                                If you do not
>like his "Raid" comment than explain to him why his comment upsets you.

It's indicative of a world-view which I feel is fundamentally destructive.
I refer to the worldview which finds it better to dominate the world rather
than to live harmoniously within it.

>                                                                        Yes 
>the movement of people to the northwest causes problems but your comments 
>are rude and not constructive.

Only the last of your three-part assertion is untrue.  Here are several
constructive suggestions:
o	Stay where you are, settle down, and work to make the place where you
	live better.  Stop doing things that make your habitat unlivable.
	Don't give aid and comfort to those that do.
o	Find life-work which both satisfies you personally and does good in
	the world.
o	Learn about the flora and fauna that live where you live.
o	In general, clean up your act; use your imagination.  Live life!
o	Question authority.

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: jimc@isc-br.ISC-BR.COM (Jim Cathey)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: FW: news release: abolish IRS
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:28:38 GMT
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company

In article <653@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>/	They oppose laws requiring either air-bags or seat belts to be 
>/provided as standard equipment in cars. 
>
>	It seems that a lot of the hype about air-bags is propaganda. I read
>that they were ineffective (they don't inflate fast enough) for crashes
>over 38mph, and at angles of more than 20 degrees from head-on. IMO, this
>makes them nearly useless compared to seat belts. The collisions I worry
>about are freeway ones, or head ons (two cars hitting head on at 25 mph
>gives a 50 mph collision).

Umm, if I remember correctly this last is not true.  Due to the
deformation during collision, assuming two vehicles colliding head-on
at the same speed (of similar weight and construction, and this is a
big assumption), it's the same as if they each hit a stationary
cruncher like a bridge abutment.  The passenger stops in the same
distance, whether hitting car or wall.  Of course, if one vehicle has
more momentum than the other then it's to his advantage to hit the
lesser vehicle head-on (as opposed to hitting a bridge).  Similarly,
given a choice between hitting the immovable wall versus a parked car,
go for the car (using it as a billiard-ball shock absorber).  This is
one reason bumper tests for cars have them hitting walls at such
absurdly low speeds --- they assume that the same damage will occur
from hitting a stationary car in front of you at about twice the speed.
This is probably a good first-order approximation.

>	I'm casually involved in auto racing. Racers do not use air bags,
>and they are *very* safety conscious. They would use them if they worked.

Real (i.e. Indy) racers use belting that is more than the standard lap
and shoulder belt.  These really clamp you into place.  I suspect a bag
couldn't offer anything more than their normal belting does.

If my Camaro ('84) had an air bag, though, I would probably be more
comfortable.  It has a decent lap/shoulder belt that you don't have to
be a contortionist to grab hold of, and _not_ one of those damned
motor-mouse belts.  (I will _never_ buy one of these, they are
extremely irritating, and they _still_ make you put the lap belt
on manually!  The worst of both worlds.)  The bag would just be
added insurance.

+----------------+
! II      CCCCCC !  Jim Cathey
! II  SSSSCC     !  ISC-Bunker Ramo
! II      CC     !  TAF-C8;  Spokane, WA  99220
! IISSSS  CC     !  UUCP: uunet!isc-br!jimc (jimc@isc-br.isc-br.com)
! II      CCCCCC !  (509) 927-5757
+----------------+
			"PC's --- the junk bonds of the computer industry"
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:11:19 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <56254@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>I'm considering attending the University of Washington school of law.
>Could someone tell me a couple of things about Seattle?
>
>	1. What is the insect and arachnid life like?  In other words,
>when I get the urge to empty a can of "Raid" on my fellow life forms,
>what targets will be available?  I'm mostly interested in which ones
>I will find indoors -- I'm willing to show mercy to those that stay
>outside.
>
Just some friendly advise here Tim.  Although things are changing
with the influx of lots of people from other regions, I think you will
find a greater ratio of environmentally concerned/outdoor oriented 
folks in W. Wash. than most other parts of the country.  The "spray the
hell out of anything I don't like" attitude won't go over very well with
a lot of people up here.  A better approach would be to simply evict the
offending critter.  Second, if want a house with sunny, open Californian 
landscape - buy one thats already that way.  Please don't be one of these
people that buy a beautiful naturally forested lot and then whip out the 
ole chain saw and cut down everything in sight.


-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:37:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: dogear.782
Distribution: na
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

In article <1992Apr10.194352.18980@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:
>     One thing I do hate to see though is more lawyers move into the area.
>I'm sure we're well beyond the point of market saturation where that
>particular profession is concerned.  I see ads on television by lawyers
>suggesting that before you agree to any insurance settlement you contact
>them first.  What that does is just make sure all of our insurance rates
>go up, ties up the courts for people trying to deal with real disputes, etc.

Hey! Wait a second. I don't think it makes any difference if more lawyers
move in. Then EVERYBODY can support a full-time personal lawyer, instead of
just divorced men paying child-support.
-- 
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: pkemp@byron.u.washington.edu (Paul Kemp)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Bottle Recycling about to die
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:16:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr16.191615.15001
Distribution: pnw
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr15.224445.1673@fylz.wa.com> listserv@fylz.wa.com (FYL List Server) writes:
>A friend had brought a case of Henry's beer to my house.  I was
>going to put the bottles in the city recycling bin (which means they
>would get crushed and melted down at best).  But, on the case it said
>that there is a recycling program for Henry's bottles.  So I called.
>
>It turns out there Rainier Brewery in Seattle does the program but:
>  * volume is lower than planned
>  * they don't refill the bottles, just sort and reuse the glass
>  * the program will be terminated on June 1
>
>When I lived in Olympia in the late 70's, lots of beer bottles were
>being refilled.  There was a huge recycling center where bottles were
>bought, sorted and returned for refilling.  Now we are in the 90' and we
>seem to think that melting down glass is recycling.
>
>First, I encourage people to call the Rainier and Blitz breweries and
>encourage them to take refilling seriously.  Second, anyone know of any
>breweries that refill their bottles?
>
My brother made pretty good money in CA selling wine bottles back to the 
wineries.  He  was doing general recycling at the time in Oakland.
>
The only way is a 5 cent bottle deposit.  Then it becomes expensive not to 
recycle.

pk

> -- Phil Hughes
From: vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:45:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.7590004
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon, USA

Why the hell are you guys so hostile. It is a free country and this person 
who asked a question deserves a civil answer. So the guy wants to be a lawyer,
so what. I am sure I could find problems with your occupations. If you do not
like his "Raid" comment than explain to him why his comment upsets you. Yes 
the movement of people to the northwest causes problems but your comments 
are rude and not constructive.

                                                      

Vernon
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: bruceki@polari.com
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:27:44 GMT

In article <80qj7vd.peterh@netcom.com> peterh@netcom.com (Peter John Harrison) writes:
[various unclear whines deleted]
>
>What if I was black?  Hispanic?  A woman?  Rich?  Poor?
>

  The californication of people transcends race, creed or religion.  It
affects the young and old.  Therefore we hate them all equally.  No
prejudice here at all.  

[more deleted]
>all Californians are filth and shouldn't be allowed to move to your
>neighborhood?  

  Well put.  I agree.  

>Shall we issue little I.D. cards and set up toilets: "Californians"
>"Good People"   ?????
  
  That is a very interesting idea.  And have the one marked "californians"
go to straight to the meat room and rendering truck.  Yes, that's the
spirit!

>
>other political party of your choice.  But don't bother telling me 
>you have an open mind about sex, race, and religion.  You can't even 
>get past where a guy lives.

  You're right.  It's a terrible place to live.  Don't move here.  We're
ever-so closed minded and ever-so unfriendly.  We'll hate you on
sight, without knowing anything else about you.  

  Our, ah, suicide rate in recent transplant groups is 
ever-so-high.  Yea, that's the ticket.  1000 foot lead-gray clouds
for most of the year.  Terrible snowstorms that paralyze the city
every couple of years.  Sinking floating bridges that will fling your
car off to drown you, or open randomly to present a 6' wall of steel 
and concrete to crush your car... 

>
>peterh@netcom.com       This opinion is mine, but make it yours if you like.

  Ok, I will.  Thanks for providing the cool quotes.
From: billh@hplsla.hp.com (Bill Harris)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Radio Towers and EMF
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:34:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.3440048
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

David Ruggiero writes:

- The exposure to the field must be continuous and long-term (many hours
  each day). This eliminates hair dryers and toasters, which generate a
  strong field only very close to their cases, and which we don't spend
  more than a few minutes a day next to.



I just saw in "Exposure to Residential Electric and Magnetic Fields and
Risk of Childhood Leukemia" (by Stephanie J. London et. al. in the
"American Journal of Epidemiology", November 1, 1991) a table of leukemia
risk in relation to self-reported appliance use by children and mothers,
Los Angeles County, CA, 1980-1987.  (I understand at least some of the
problems of self reporting.)  Only two risks of exposure were reported as
statistically signficant: a child's (weekly or more) exposure to B&W
televisions and a child's (weekly or more) exposure to electric hair
dryers.

Bill Harris
billh@lsid.hp.com      

Hewlett-Packard Co. 
Lake Stevens Instrument Division ms/230
8600 Soper Hill Road
Everett, WA 98205-1298
From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:51:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: dogear.796
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

In article <1992Apr12.232303.9152@beaver.cs.washington.edu> tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang) writes:
>
>BTW - Seattle (all of WA?) drivers, you *do* know about the newish law,
>      stating that one is not allowed to drive in the left lane of a
>      (4+ lane) highway except to pass?
>
We HAVE 4 lane highways in Washington??? It would have to be Seattle. They
just informed us in Spokane that concrete had been invented by paving I90...


-- 
bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us                     "Freedom is irrelevant.
Bob Kirkpatrick                            Self-determination is irrelevant.
Dog Ear'd Systems                          You must comply."         --st:ng
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: mayo@pa.dec.com (Bob Mayo)
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Organization: DEC Western Research Lab
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 00:55:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.163618.1237@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
> ... driving 10-20 miles an hour below the speed limit ...

I've heard Californians called many things, but not "slow drivers"!  Is
this really true?  If so, the people moving out of California must drive a
lot slower than the average person where I live (San Franciso area).  

What sort of people do you find arrive in Seattle from California?  Are they
the older workers that have made a fortune on their houses, or the
younger folks that are moving because they can't afford houses in CA?

>Combined with this, they hold onto their California license plates as long
>as possible (usually illegally) thus depriving their new "home" state of
>badly needed highway funds.  THIS ALSO MAKES THEM HIGHLY VISIBLE AND
>CONTRIBUTES TO PREJUDICE AGAINST THEM.

Are you sure this isn't universally true of all movers?  I have a 5.3 mile
drive from work to home, on not-so-busy streets, and see about 3-4 Washington
license plates on an average day.  

--Bob
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Organization: Cores 'R Us
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:46:45 GMT

In article <7590005@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>Todd, I assure you Californians are buying houses down here like crazy even
>in Cornvalley. Houses are going up 10k a year. We have the same problems of
>starter homes that the north end of the valley has. I understand how you 
>feel but some of the posters were very rude. People who move here can be from
>many places with high property values but we seem in the PNW to pick on the
>people from California. I prefer to use the truth to fight the influx. Tell
>them how much it rains. How big the slugs are and how they will eat your kitty
>if you do not take care. etc etc

Well, I *did* describe some of the voracious fauna of the PNW in my reply to
the migratory lawyerling from the Well.  I'm one of 'em!

>What I find most interesting about this issue is how a person can move to the
>PNW and five years later act and think like they have lived here their whole
>life. They seem to conveniently forget that alot of people moved here from
>other places.

No contradiction there.  After all, we are *all* *somewhere* when we come to
the realization that we can either settle down and start caring about where
we *are*, or we can keep moving around whenever the shit in our nests gets too
deep to be tolerable.  My beef is with the people who don't seem to get it.

>Vernon (Moved from Upstate New York 16 years ago)

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) (moved here in 1953, nya,nya,nya!)
From: peterk@fury.wr.tek.com (Peter Krystad)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:50:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: wrgate.9399
Reply-To: peterk@fury.WR.TEK.COM
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc. (for now)


In article <80qj7vd.peterh@netcom.com> peterh@netcom.com (Peter John Harrison) writes:

> I've been reading this thread, from down here in San Francisco.  Yes,
> mygawddon'ttellmeit'sa *Californian*!   Eeeeekkkkk!
> 
> Gimme a break.  Even if I have lived in this state, on and off, for 
> about 2/3 of my 30 years, does that mean I fit in with the stereotype
> you hace me set up for?
>

The post that started this thread was from the guy that was thinking
of moving to Seattle and wanted to know about spiders and earthquakes. 
The post fit anyone's classic stereotype of the flakey Californian. 

Quit worrying. I think people understand that "Californication" has become
just a label for the recent phenomenom of growth up here. The classic
symptoms of growth (doubling real-estate prices, traffic congestion, 
jaywalking) are attached to California because those things happened 
down your way some time ago. In 1990 only ten percent of the people moving
into King County were from California (I'm quoting the Seattle Times, so
it must be true!). The greener pastures thing has been going in the U.S.
since 1620, it just finally made it here. The trick is figuring out where
it will go next!

I always blame all civic problems here in the Northwest on Californians.

I know it is not all their fault, but it is still fun to watch 'em squirm!

If there wasn't some truth to it, why the defensiveness?

Peter.

*------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Peter Krystad                          peterk@amadeus.WR.TEK.COM *
* Unfortunately, I do have to work. This week.                     *
*------------------------------------------------------------------*
 
Newsgroups: pnw.general