HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: the knuckleball
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:16:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

FYI:

A knuckleball does not have "no spin" as is a common misconception
(at least this is true for a *good* knuckleball).  If this were
true, it would not be possible to throw a knuckle-curve (a la Burt
Hooten).

I read many years ago in Scientific American (I think) that the "ideal"
knuckleball rotates once from pitcher to catcher to maximize aerodynamic
effects.  

After working with the grip, I concluded that Burt Hootens knuckle-curve
differed from a normal knuckleball by the fact that it rotated
sideways as opposed to the usual forward or backward.  This caused even
different behavior then a normal knuckleball pitcher.

Perhaps Prof Adair from Yale (the baseball physics *GOD*) will read 
this and enlighten us all:-)

paul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Sports Illustrated's liner on the Eck
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:56:59 GMT

In article <19806@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
>
>Following is the SI comments on Star closer, Dennis Eckersley...
>
>
>" While the As get 9 innings in a game, their opponents have
>
> only eight chances to win "
>
>
>How true!!!!

Of course, if the A's are on the road, their opponents should only
*need* eight chances...
-- 
             ......................................................
             ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | std disclaimers
             the university of chicago law skool, chicago, illinois
             you can't throw me to the lions -- i'm charlton heston
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: What's a cycle?
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:11:43 GMT


> jvariyam@ada.stat.uga.edu (jayachandran n variyam) writes:
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     Yikes!

>  a) In the 15-0 Braves blow out of Pirates there was a
>     mention of L. Smith completing a cycle.  What's a cycle?

Hitting a single, double, triple and homer in one game. I don't think Lonnie
pulled it off though. If I remember correctly, he had 2 singles, 2 doubles
and a homer.

>  b) What are the features of a knuckle ball and change-up in
>     terms of the trajectory?

A change-up has one break. Usually, it will suddenly change directions halfway
to the plate (why, I don't know - I flunked physics - my guess would be that
the spin on the ball loses out to the surrounding air currents).

A knuckleball has no spin whatsoever and is therefore at the mercy of the
current wind conditions. Neither the pitcher, batter or hitter has any idea
where it is going to wind up (a 50-50 pitch unless you have an outpitch (like
Candiotti) and therefore most knuckleballers are 50-50 lifetime, and hitters
either miss it or hit it 500 feet). I personally don't care for knuckleballers.
Too much guesswork.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

 Mr. Neutron: This is a nice area.
 Mr. Entrail: It's like a bloody graveyard. I hate it.
 Mr. Neutron: It's handy for the shops and convenient for the West End.
 Mr. Entrail: If you like going to the West End. I think it's a stinking dump.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad)
Subject: Re: Twins/Mariners  Game-9  8/15/92
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:10:19 GMT

In article <19751@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
>
>        Twins ............. 2 ;   Mariners ........... 3
>
>A 2-out 2 -strikes rally started by Munoz in the top of the
>9th, which  allowed  Scott-Leus to score Minnesota's tying
>run off a bloop hit to CF, was in vain as the Mariners came
>right back in the bottom of the 9th with the winning run.

Wasn't Leius's hit to RF??  I was watching the game.
>
>Randy Johnson, who carried a no hitter through 6 innings
>surrendered the tying run to Larkin as Leus doubled him in.
>Johnson threw 150 + pitches and went all the way for a
>very good effort. I am unsure as the Tapani, who left after
>8 innings was charged with the loss.

Edens got the L, not Tapani.  Edens pitched the bottom of the ninth.
>


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Bosox 
Keywords: wheelchair
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:58:34 GMT

In article <griffin.714526710@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> griffin@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Sean McGerty) writes:
>Not living on the continental USA I beg to ask this question.....
> 
>        MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL STANDINGS FOR THURSDAY, AUGUST 20, 1992
> 
>AMERICAN EAST
>Boston Red Sox        55    65    .458  15.0      3-7    Lost 1  36-25  19-40
                                                                         ^^^^^
> 
>How is it possible that the Bosox have a near 2nd best Home record in their 
>division and they are still tying for last?

I think that 19-40 road record has something to do with it.  Yee-owch.

There is something seriously wrong with the Red Sox player development
system.  Greenwell, Burks, and Plantier should be a sensational outfield
if you project their minor-league stats and rookie seasons into a normal
career.  Vaughn, Naehring, and Wedge aren't living up to their potential.
The farm system hasn't produced a single good pitcher in the last six years.
Jody Reed never improved as much as he should have, even counting for the
fact that he was a 25-year old rookie.  Even Boggs never improved much
(offensively, at least) since his 1983 season (leaving aside the fact
that they refused to bring him up at all for far too long).  It must be
frustrating.
-- 
             ......................................................
             ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | std disclaimers
             the university of chicago law skool, chicago, illinois
             you can't throw me to the lions -- i'm charlton heston
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Attention: Reds Fans
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:01:53 GMT


>too early to throw in the towel.  It seems O`Neal has psyched himself out
>of being productive this year so why not trade him and that way the 
>Bipmeister could play right, Braggs left, Sanders center, and Morris and Sabo
>could be in the lineup everyday.  Speed, pitching and defense can win games
>and O`neal is only good for 30 "Johnsons" a year which doesn't cover his
>low average and his inability to hit with men on base.  Last year was a fluke.
>Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.  Besides, next year, a healthy
>Sabo and Larkin can produce HR`s and maintain a high average, something
>O`Neal is incapable of doing.
>
The line-up should be Braggs in right, Sanders left, Roberts center.
Morris and Sabo WOULD be in the line-up everyday if it weren't for injuries.
As it is, Sabo should just go on the DL today: he's worthless playing hurt.
Geronimo Berroa is still tearing up triple-A and has had reasonable success
at the major league level.
Tonight (Saturday) O'Neill went 0-for-4 but Marty was quite pleased that he
was able to hit the ball to the right side to advance a runner.  BIG DEAL!
If his hitting has deterioated so badly that he deserves praise for a 
seemingly routine task at the plate, maybe he does need a change.  I have up
until today spent my energies defending him, but as Lou SHOULD say:
"Paul, what have you done for me lately?"

RStimets


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: oxley@pdn.paradyne.com (Don Oxley)
Subject: Re: bye bye san fran!!! hello tampa bay
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:29:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.115853.19714@pdn.paradyne.com> oxley@pdn.paradyne.com (Don Oxley) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.030906.25475@midway.uchicago.edu> clmn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Also, for your information, the tracker pulls are done in Tampa
>Station where the Bucs play.  The Suncoast Dome is the home of
>

In my last post, "Tampa Station" was supposed to read "Tampa Stadium."
My darn fingers got in the way again.  Sorry.

DonO

--
Don Oxley     |Internet: oxley@pdn.paradyne.com|"It is better to keep your mouth
AT&T Paradyne |UUCP:     uunet!pdn!oxley       | shut and appear stupid, than to
Largo, FL     |--------------------------------| open it and leave no doubt."
(813)530-8282 |  Opinions are mine, not AT&T   |               -Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Last-place Cy Young
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:42:07 GMT


gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman) writes:

>dsimon@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:

>>Has the Cy Young Award ever been awarded to a pitcher on a last place team?

>Steve Carlton for the Phillies, 1972.  Carlton had a record of 27-10.  He won
>about half the games for the Phils that season.

One is tempted to say that Carlton would have won 30 with any other team,
but on the other hand I heard that the Phillies *were* a different team
when Carlton pitched that year.

-----
Eric Smith	    | "Computers?  Why would any civilian company
erics@sco.com	    |  ever need a computer?  There's no future in
erics@infoserv.com  |  it ... stick with your adding machines my friend."
CI$: 70262,3610	    |  - David Sarnoff of RCA to Thomas J. Watson of IBM

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Origin of "Did he (they) win?"
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:18:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.191431.9455@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)      writes...
> 
>It may be apocryphal, but supposedly when Don Drysdale was once informed that
>Koufax had pitched a no-hitter his first question was "Did he win?"

I remember a similar expression differently. It was about the Amazin' Mets of 
1962. In one game they scored something like 17 runs. When a fan was told about 
the number of runs they score, he asked "Did they win?" At least, I remember 
seeing this in a Baseball Digest.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: twhitmir@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Timothy Whitmire)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The New Improved NL-East
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:53:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

With the shake-up in San Fran, Chicago can take Cincy back with
them to the west and there'll be another team in their preferred
television timeslot!

The New and improved (above and beyond the re-alignment):

NL EAST                   NL WEST
Atlanta Braves            Chicago Cubs
Florida Marlins           Cincy Reds
Montreal Expos            Colorado Rockies
New York Mets             Houston Astros
Philadelphia Phillies     LA Dodgers
Pittsburgh Pirates        St.Louis Cardinals
Tampa Bay Giants          San Diego Padres
           ^or will they
            change them to Guppies
            so Florida can have
            another fish team?

--whit
=========/ \
       /_____\  Go Braves!
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:25:23 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <92225.100627ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>     But how are you supposed to feel when a team that's rubbed its
>attitude in your face (as a die-hard fan of their Bay Area rivals) for
>years is the only game in town?

I don't know what you're talking about here.  If anything, I tend to see an
attitude (not confined to the Bay Area) that National League ball is the
only "true" way.  

>  Embrace them?  Try to imagine how you
>would feel if, say, Will Clark was traded to the Dodgers for Strawberry.
>Could you really just blindly root for Darryl because hey, at least
>you've still got a good slugger on your team?

You bet.

the player you fell in love with and management expects you to cheer

Well, you see, I *never* fell in love with Will Clark.  Talk about your attitudes....

>     Baseball is a matter of the heart. I mean, if you *really* fall
>in love, it doesn't matter *how* many other girls are out there.
>Losing her makes everything else taste bittersweet at best...

And you see, I'm in love with the *game*.  The *game* is bigger than
individual player or team.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:06:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.203034.16928@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>So, you seem to be claiming that Cone is better than Clemens because Cone
>strikes out more hitters.  Is that an accurate characterization of your
>opinion?  (Not that Cone really strikes out that many more per IP than
>Clemens).  

Actually, Clemens isn't striking out all that many batters this year.
Only 7.4 per 9 innings.  Cone, of course, is over 10 per 9.  Earlier
this year, Clemens was suffering from that foot problem.  It may still
be costing him a little velocity.  But I think the drop is more than
that.  Clemens has realized that while blowing batters away may be
personally satisfying, he is being paid to prevent runs and win games.
He is a far better pitcher now than he was in the days when he had a
K/IP ratio over 1.

In 1990, Clemens allowed 9.7 baserunners per 9 innings.
In 1991, he dropped that to 9.4.
1992?  Fewer than *9* baserunners per 9 innings.

This is an *unbelievable* number for a strikeout pitcher!  (Cone is
running 11.2 BR/9 this year, and is still quite successful.)

BTW, who was the last AL pitcher to allow fewer than 1 baserunner per
inning (while still qualifying for the ERA title)?  Any guesses?

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Subject: YESSSS!!! Orioles finally win one!!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: orioles, game, result 
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:09:00 GMT

The Orioles narrowly avert getting swept by the M's at the Yard today, 
pulling out a 2-1 victory in ten innings.

The Mariners took a 1-0 lead on a sac fly by Edgar Martinez, and the O's
anemic bats were only able to muster ONE hit off of that noted Cy
Young contender Brian Fisher :-) through 6 2/3 innings.  The O's tied
it in the eighth when Devereaux tripled off of reliever Jeff Nelson with two
out.  

Storm was in a bases-loaded, one-out jam in the ninth but got Tino Martinez
to ground into a 1-2-3 double play.  It was typical of the Mariners in the
game, as they stranded something like twelve baserunners in the game.  
Sutcliffe was in trouble the whole game, but kept escaping nasty jams.
The O's loaded the bases in the ninth, but
Schooler escaped by getting McLemore to ground to first.

The O's won it in the tenth on a leadoff triple by Brady Anderson, followed
by a sac fly off the bat of Devereaux.  Storm gets the win, Schooler the loss.
This was a BIG one, the O's are already in some trouble--they've got to make
a move while Toronto's on the road.
Unfortunately, the A's are in town next--it's going to be a tough series (I
think tomorrow's matchup is Downs-Mussina, so we should be able to get the
first)

..and the Jays are trailing the Brewers
5-1 in the third!! Looks like more quality pitching from the Jays rotation :-)

Oh, by the way, in my daily "Mike Flanagan Sucks Toads" department--Flanny
gave up 3 hits in the 2/3 of an inning he pitched last night. Olson bailed
him out, keeping Flanagan's ERA at a downright Acker-Like 7.55.  Expect
the Human Batting Tee to be released next week when Mark Williamson
is activated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacobs: Sign Cal Now!!                Bruce 'Slower than Sam Horn' Hasch
E-mail at hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu    O's all the way in '92!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Absolutely Horrific Red Sox-Indians Game
Organization: Clark University
Date: 14 AUG 92 02:52:55 GMT

>>
>>Bob Zupcic is a bright shining beacon in a gloomy wasteland.
>>I bet the Sox trade him.
>>
>Uh, wasn't Zupcic the beacon that streaked in from center only to knock
>the ball away from Winnigham?
>

Oh come on, give him a break -- he managed to avoid being sucked into the
Red Sox vortex.  You *know* that with all the other horrible stuff that
was happening to the Sox that night, he was really *meant* to smash
headlong into Winningham and give them both season-ending injuries...

>--
>John Ormonde                            Internet: jfo@afterlife.ncsc.mil
>GO Tribe! (Well, SOMEbody has to root for them)!

Actually, I know several Red Sox fans who are rooting for the Wahoo Warriors,
hoping that the Sox will wind up in last place, and Sox management will
be forced to take drastic measures in the off-season.

Heather
Jack Clark University (official name change pending)
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:48:34 GMT

>Oops.  Guess I must be a stat-head to not see that Cone is *obviously*
>the better pitcher.  More mentally stable, too (NOT!!!).

	Jesus, I wouldn't exactly call Clemens mentally stable.

							G.Greene
>
>-Valentine
>-- 
>Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:26:56 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: malibog.hal.com


I apologize to all of the people who have posted responses to my opinion
that David Cone is the best pitcher, both via this news group and through
private e-mail. I have read each message but just don't have the free
time to respond to each one individually (I'll remember this next time
I offer a potentially unpopular opinion ;-)).

Ok, so maybe I'm wrong placing so much weight on strikeouts. It just
seemed to me (and still does to a certain extent) that if a pitcher 
can cause more batters to make the long walk back to his dugout, 
that he is better than a pitcher that retires his batters by grounding
or flying them out (judging by the reactions of batters, it seems most
certainly to be more frustrating to a hitter). I guess that, in the 
overall scheme of things, that other statistics (such as ERA and (H+W)/IP) 
are more important. I have certainly held opinions before that were
wrong, I guess that there is a (remote ;-)) possibility that this one
may be in that category as well.

Another thing that was pointed out (that I hadn't considered) that
the stadium has something to do with the number of strikeouts. At first
I didn't believe this, so I scrounged up all of my old Baseball Weeklys
for this year and saw for myself. I was missing two weeks in July, but 
here is what I came up with for DC's strikeout average:

	Away	72/64		K/9	10.8	
	Home	60/48		K/9	11.25	

I started to do this for other pitchers who've pitched at Shea and 
with their overall K/9, but I figured that I'd wasted enough
time on this already.

Ok, so Shea seems to be a better stadium for strikeouts. The batters
visibility seems to be the most plausible reason for this. Though
there were other reasons cited that I really don't completely
understand (maybe someone can educate me): how does the area 
between the foul lines and out of play have anything to do
with strikeouts? Isn't the area that a ball is fair (except for
the distance to the fence) the same?

Well anyway, it's clear that I'm one of the very few (only one
in this newsgroup?) who feel that DC is better that RC (I still 
do). And I guess that I had better keep such highly controversial 
opinions to myself unless I can back them up with (relevant) fact(s). 
He does have a lot of strikeouts...

One final thing before I shutup. Because I feel that DC is the
best pitcher doesn't mean I'm a Mets fan. I said this in a
previous posting but, since I've been accused of it at least
twice, I'll say it here again :-]. 

rc
// Rolland Crunk
// HaL Computer Systems 
// rc@hal.com
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: MLB Magic Numbers for Wed, Aug 12th, 1992
Date: 12 Aug 1992 15:18:45 GMT
Organization: Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises; Berkeley, California, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
Via: JTC Enterprises Major League Baseball Department (Statistics Division)
     JTC Enterprises Sports Sector (Information Department)

        MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 12, 1992

          [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; i-idle yesterday
                   z-won yesterday or split a doubleheader.]

NATIONAL WEST		 MN	        	NATIONAL EAST		 MN
Atlanta	Braves		 --		        Pittsburgh Pirates	 --
Cincinnati Reds		 48		        Montreal Expos		z49
San Diego Padres	z45		        Chicago Cubs		 43
San Francisco Giants	 36		        New York Mets		z41
Houston Astros		z32		        St. Louis Cardinals	z41
Los Angeles Dodgers	z32		        Philadelphia Phillies	 35

AMERICAN WEST		 MN 		        AMERICAN EAST		 MN
Oakland Athletics	 --		        Toronto Blue Jays	 --
Minnesota Twins		z48		        Baltimore Orioles	z48
Chicago White Sox	z42		        Milwaukee Brewers	 45
Texas Rangers		 36		        Boston Red Sox		 36
Kansas City Royals	z33		        Detroit Tigers	        z36
California Angels	z32		        Cleveland Indians	z35
Seattle Mariners	 24		        New York Yankees	 35

Formula used: W=163-l-w
              where W=combination of games won by 1st place team or lost by 
                      designated team needed to eliminate designated team
                    l=games lost by designated team
                    w=games won by 1st place team
MN decreases by one for any game won by 1st place team or lost by designated
   team until it reaches 0 and designated is eliminated from division title.

For further explanation of formula, e-mail jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu. Thanks.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises World Headquarters
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*****    *    *****  University of California, Berkeley, California, USA  94720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------