HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rich@bostech.com (Richard Baughman)
Subject: how to connect remote synch node to ethernet?
Organization: Boston Technology, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 22:01:50 GMT

We are trying to determine the best (and least expensive) way to connect
a remote Unix (Sun) workstation to an ethernet network using TCP/IP.  We have
a need for a permanent synchronous (leased-line) connection that will allow the
remote workstation to function as though it were connected directly to the
local network coax.  A dialup connection is not adequate - we need a 24-hour
permanent connection.

The link will be supporting ascii and binary messages going mostly *to* the
remote system, with an occasional message coming *from* the remote system, both
via TCP/IP sockets.  The i/o rate will be fairly low most of the time (an
interactive administrative application that sends requests and gets status
results).  Very infrequently (once or twice a week), the link requires a
download of an ascii file between 50K and 1MB in size.

I am only vaguely familiar with leased-lines, bridges, routers, and SLIP, and
know nothing about point-to-point protocol.  My questions are:

1) What are the alternatives for connecting a remote workstation *directly
   to an ethernet network* (i.e., not through a local serial port or internal
   bus card on a workstation)?  I realize that a serial port solution appears
   to be much cheaper, but they make the remote connection totally dependent
   on the local workstation, and we'd like to avoid that (redundancy, etc.).
   I am looking for product and company names, descriptions, pricing and
   supported communication links that will meet this requirement.

2) What is point-to_point protocol?  Is it a replacement for SLIP?  Are these
   protocols independent of the nature of the phone link (synchronous vs.
   dialup)?

3) Does anyone know what "Basic Rate" (ISDN standard) is?  It appears to be
   a synchronous-type link that is fairly standard outside the U.S.

4) Will our existing software, written to use TCP/IP socket connections, work
   unchanged with these solutions?

I have contacted Telebit about their Netblazer product; it seems to be a viable
solution, but costs almost $4,000 per node ($8,000 for our setup, although we
may be able to use their Sbus synchronous card in the remote workstation, which
lowers the cost to $900 at one end).  I talked to Microcom, but their bridge
requires a PC at each end and is priced around $6500 per node.  I also saw a
posting here about Rockwell/CMC and their Nethopper, but it supports dialup
only (for $1995 per node).

For the record, this will be installed in Japan (both local network and remote
node).

Thanks for any/all help/info you can provide.  Please reply via email.
-- 
Rich Baughman / Boston Technology / Wakefield, MA
rich@bostech.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: brunetti@alw.nih.gov (Jim Brunetti)
Subject: Adapter to use all 4 pairs in 10BaseT
Followup-To: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Organization: NIH
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:58:33 GMT

Does anyone know of a company who sells an adpater to split out the 4 pairs
of a standard 10BaseT run so all 4 pairs can be utilized?  We have a case
where the wiring has already been run and terminated and someone needs one
more drop in a lab.  The room has been sealed and the conduits are filled. 
There is an RJ-45 outlet box in the lab and the wire is terminated in a
RJ45 patch panel.  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: streater@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Dec and IEEE Spanning Tree differences
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:07:09 GMT

I am trying to understand spanning tree a little better, particularly as we
have Cisco routers doing bridging, and bridges from DEC (LANBridge 150) and
NAT (LAN100M).

As I understand it there are two spanning tree algorithms, so-called DEC and
IEEE. Bridges implementing these protocols exchange multicast packets between
themselves in order to decide who should go into backup mode, in the case where
bridges are connected redundantly in loops.

In Radia Perlman's book "Interconnections" she mentions that there is a special
multicast address assigned to "all bridges", but does not then say what the
address is.

I would like to know:

1) What this multicast address is and are there two of them, one for the DEC
   and one for the IEEE protocols?

2) Radia Perlman also describes the format of the multicast packets. Are there
   any differences here between the two algorithms?

We plan to have the Cisco routers running the DEC protocol and the bridges
running IEEE, with no mixture of bridge vendors on a given subnet. Is this a
sensible scheme?

Thanks - Tim Streater / SLAC Network Development.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Subject: Re: Dec and IEEE Spanning Tree differences
Organization: Networks & Communications Consulting
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:33:37 GMT

In article <C01pny.4Kp@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, streater@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:
> I am trying to understand spanning tree a little better, particularly as we
> have Cisco routers doing bridging, and bridges from DEC (LANBridge 150) and
> NAT (LAN100M).
> 
> As I understand it there are two spanning tree algorithms, so-called DEC and
> IEEE. Bridges implementing these protocols exchange multicast packets between
> themselves in order to decide who should go into backup mode, in the case where
> bridges are connected redundantly in loops.
> 
> I would like to know:
> 
> 1) What this multicast address is and are there two of them, one for the DEC
>    and one for the IEEE protocols?
>

The IEEE "All Bridges Multicast" is 01-80-C2-00-00-00 for Spanning Tree
purposes (for Management of the bridge, use 01-80-C2-00-00-10)

I am not sure if the DEC version of the protocol uses the same multicast.
I seriously doubt it, since the DEC products were shipping BEFORE we
signed off the 802.1 bridge spec, and the address was one of the last 
things we selected (specifically so that vendors would not get an
early jump on implementation and make incompatible products).

The DEC LANbridge 150 uses the IEEE protocol. I think the DEC LANbridge
100 (and some Vitalink products) were the only ones which used the older
DEC protocol.
 
> 2) Radia Perlman also describes the format of the multicast packets. Are there
>    any differences here between the two algorithms?
>

There are some minor differences in the syntax of the packets. However
minor, the difference are sufficient to make the protocols incompatible.
A loop formed of bridges using the two protocols will not resolve itself.
 
> We plan to have the Cisco routers running the DEC protocol and the bridges
> running IEEE, with no mixture of bridge vendors on a given subnet. Is this a
> sensible scheme?
>

Why use the DEC protocol at all? It offers no advantage, other than that
it can support the older DEC bridges. If you don't have LANbridge
100s, just use the standard protocol.
 

-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:2872 bit.listserv.novell:19729
From: rob@sound.demon.co.uk (Robert J Barth)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,bit.listserv.novell
Subject: Read/Write speeds over Netware lite
Date: 26 Dec 92 22:37:00 GMT
Reply-To: rob@sound.demon.co.uk
Organization: Sound & Vision BBS (UK) 0932 252323
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $

I have been running a 4 node Netware lite with ethernet cables, and a mixture
of 8/16 bit cards (NE1000, 3C503, WD16), and am worried about the speeds I've
been getting...
On PC-Tools' SI, I get around 160k-Read/160k-Write /second, but sometiems this
drops to 100k-Read/30k-Write !
Is this normal, and how can I improve this ?
Can you give me some figures for any cards you've tested (from 8 to 32 bit) so
I know what I'm up against ?

cheers
-rob-

=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
| Nominal  : Rob Barth             | RJB Communications (+44) (0)932 253131 |
| InterNet : rob@sound.demon.co.uk | Sound & Vision BBS (+44) (0)932 252323 |
| FidoNet  : sysop, 2:254/14       |  The best UK BBS with a full UseNet &  |
| Nyx      : rbarth@nyx.cs.du.edu  | Internet Email feed. All hours/speeds. |
=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Subject: Re: Bandwidth Requirement Formula
Keywords: equation bandwidth
Organization: Networks & Communications Consulting
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:25:25 GMT

In article <Bzu10L.228@iron.hq.aflc.af.mil>, fenton@iron.hq.aflc.af.mil (George I. Fenton) writes:
> Happy holidays LAN gurus!  I am looking for reference books on the
> actual ethernet, token-ring, and FDDI formulas to perform some
> bandwidth calculations for a site.
> 
> What I am trying to do is calculate the minimum bandwidth requirements of
> a backbone network based on several 10BaseT ethernet concentrators.  I do
> know the number of workstations to be attached to this LAN and the average
> load of a given time based on the number of workstations to be installed.
> The 10BaseT concentrators will attach to the backbone network, where all
> the servers will reside.  My objective is to determine the type of backbone
> required to handle the expected level of traffic from the workstations via
> 10BaseT concentrators -- the backbone can be either ethernet, token-ring, or
> FDDI.
> 

I wish it WERE simply a matter of finding the right "formulas"!!

Unfortunately, the demands placed on a network are very application-
dependent. The required bandwidth is a function of:
  -Application average bandwidth demand
  -Distribution over time
  -Distribution over stations
  -Protocol overhead, etc., etc. ...

Also, it is not just a matter of bandwidth. Delay, Error rates, processor
performance, interface card performance, and a slew of other factors affect
the behavior of a given applications. Worse, I know of few LANs which are
only running a single application. 

There are a few ways to solve this problem:
  -Use "rules of thumb"
  -Overdesign the LAN and/or backbone (this may or may not imply additional
   cost. For example, there is no real cost penalty to put in a 10 Mb/s LAN
   if you only need 1 Mb/s of bandwidth.)
  -Simulate with available tools (e.g., Comdisco BONES). This requires 
   building models of your applications and the design of your internetwork.
  -Copy the design of someone else who has a similar environment and
   whose network performs adequately.

If you attempt a "closed form" (algorithmic) solution to your problem, 
unless it is extremely well-defined and simple, I suspect that you will 
revert to one of the options shown above.

Sorry. Does anyone else have a better idea?



-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Need info on "pocket" parallel ethernet adapters
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:42:23 GMT

In article <23DEC199210123110@elroy.uh.edu> st1r8@elroy.uh.edu (Guillot, Burt J.) writes:
>I have a friend that wants to know the going prices on the ethernet adapters
>that plug into the parellel ports of laptops, etc.  Also, are these any good?

We've been paying about $250-$260 in small quantities (4) for the D-Link
DE-600TP (10BaseT version).

Out of about 200 adapters, we've had four fail. These are used in a
manufacturing line environment, which is quite a bit harsher than the
usual office, for installing software on newly assembled computers.

I'm quite pleased with them, particularly considering the number of
times I've found them swinging by the 10BaseT cable....

-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Data sheet: HSN-3000 Nuclear Event Detector. The [NED] senses the gamma
radiation pulse [from a] nuclear weapon." As if we wouldn't notice...
From: jmm@amertume.ibp.fr (Don Juan-Miguel Amador Moreno y Roig)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: StarLAN,10BaseT
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:08:36 GMT
Organization: Universite PARIS 7 - UFR d'Informatique

Hello,
Can somebody tell me if the StarLAN 10 network is compatible with 10BaseT? I'm trying to connect Tektronix XP12 terminals to an ATT StarLAN Hub,it works but it generates a lot of collisions and the port goes in a jabber condition when there is no activity.As far as I have seen the assigment of pins in the RJ45 connector is exactly the same.
Am I trying to do some Black Magic?
	Thanks

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Universite Paris VII            |       Purple Haze was in my brain,
UFR d'Informatique              |       Lately things don't seem the same
2 place Jussieu                 |       Acting funny, but I don't know why...
75251 Paris cedex 05            |       Excuse me while I kiss the sky!
From: st1r8@elroy.uh.edu (Guillot, Burt J.)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Need info on "pocket" parallel ethernet adapters
Date: 23 Dec 1992 10:12 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I have a friend that wants to know the going prices on the ethernet adapters
that plug into the parellel ports of laptops, etc.  Also, are these any good?

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: seifert@netcom.com (Rich Seifert)
Subject: Re: Group bit in IEEE 802
Organization: Networks & Communications Consulting
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:57:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.160638.21836@tolten.puc.cl>, ffuentes@tolten.puc.cl (Fernando Fuentes SCC) writes:
> In IEEE 802 standard, in the address field there is a bit called
> group/individual bit, that is intended to be used for multicast (send a
> message to some type of servers for instance).
> 
> I would like to know what applications use this facility, and at what
> level the bit is set (who sets it)
> 

There are LOTS of protocols/applications which use multicast addressing,
including:
  -LAT (DEC's Local Area Transport) for advertising service availability,
   etc.
  -AppleTalk uses multicasts for Zone-wide transmssion of name binding
   requests, address resolution, etc.

The multicast bit is set by the device driver. As far as the sender is
concerned, a multicast looks like any other address (except that a response
from a multicast destination will have the individual station address of
the responder as the source).



-- 
Rich Seifert                    Networks and Communications Consulting
seifert@netcom.com              (408) 996-0922
                                (408) 996-2860 FAX
"... specialists in Local Area Networks and Data Communications systems"
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: streater@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Re: Dec and IEEE Spanning Tree differences
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:20:53 GMT

Thanks to those who responded about this; I think I have the information I need.

A word about why I might want to use more than one algorithm. We have a
subnetted LAN here, with some of the subnets being *very* critical, even to
the point that anything other than a minor intervention would need to wait
several months before being implemented. Such subnets will typically have a
redundant path *within* the subnet, implemented by bridges in a loop. They will
also be connected at two points to routers on the backbone. The routers are 
routing IP, Decnet, and AppleTalk. They are also bridging LAT and MOP.

Now, if the routers and the bridges use the same spanning tree protocol, then
from the bridges point of view, the whole LAN is seen, and should a bridge or
router go down in one part of the network then potentially it could have an
impact elsewhere on another subnet. Actually, trying to think this through as
I write this, it seems it shouldn't, but we were getting ELMS messages about
topology changes until last night, when we made the LAN150's we have use the
IEEE Spanning Tree. Those messages have stopped now, and we couldn't figure
out what was causing them. It was as if each Bridge said, "I heard a rumor that
there was a topology change". Only the routers are using the DEC Spanning Tree
now, whereas before we made the change both the routers and the bridges were.

We think this approach will give us greater flexibility, but I would like to
hear from anyone who thinks this is a bad idea.

We also have NAT bridges; they have a proprietary Spanning Tree, but are 
planning a new firmware version which will support DEC and IEEE. We are happy
with their existing algorithm, which has one advantage as we see it: if a
topology change occurs because power goes off in some building (say), and a
backup bridge takes over, then once the power comes back the bridges do *not*
automatically switch back. This means we can schedule when the switch back 
occurs. This is important for our important subnets, which typically have
large VAX clusters on them, which run continuously. They don't like running
with a long cluster-timout, so there is the potential for a cluster break if a
bridge goes down. One such they don't like; to have two looks like
carelessness.

Tim Streater / SLAC Network Development.
From: frank@smartstar.com (Frank Dziuba)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Slip Help
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:27:56 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

In article <BzFtAJ.2r5@vivanet.com> mikec@vivanet.com (Mike Chase) writes:
>
>Hody Net,
>  Could some kind soul(s) please help with a suggestion to the following.
>
> We would like to connect 2 SCO Unix boxes to each other with TCP/IP over
>a dial up connection. I realize that I must use some kind of bridge/router
>or possibly just SLIP-PPP out of one of the async ports on the boxes, my
>question is whats the best performance solution. I guess that I really 
>don't keed a router since I'll be talking to only one other site, and a 
>remote bridge would do the trick, but what kind of results can I obtain in
>terms of interactive use with telnet/rlogin etc. Also could someone 
>recommend what kind of bridges/routers I might need if that were the 
>route I would have to take...
>
>Thanks In advance
>
>mikec@vivanet.com

You can probably do what you want using SLIP. If you do need to connect
two machines with a router, CMC makes a neat new product called "Nethopper"
which contains an ethernet port and a 14.4kb modem that will let you connect
two wires over a phone. It performs all the routing, and will dialup the
phone only when there are packets to be routed, and disconnects the line
after a user-defined "quiet" period. We use it here for our internet
connection and it works very nicely. Costs about $1,900 each (need two).
CMC's number is:
1-800-262-2290

frank
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: fenton@iron.hq.aflc.af.mil (George I. Fenton)
Subject: Bandwidth Requirement Formula
Summary: Need formula/equation for bandwidth requirement calculations.
Keywords: equation bandwidth
Organization: U.S. Air Force Security Assistance Center (AFSAC)
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:31:33 GMT

Happy holidays LAN gurus!  I am looking for reference books on the
actual ethernet, token-ring, and FDDI formulas to perform some
bandwidth calculations for a site.

I have looked at Bartee's "Data Communication, Networks, and Systems", Martin's
"Local Area Networks", and a couple of others but they do not go into the
details I require.  I am not afraid of perform some intregation (Calculus work).so any formula in this level of detail is fine.

What I am trying to do is calculate the minimum bandwidth requirements of
a backbone network based on several 10BaseT ethernet concentrators.  I do
know the number of workstations to be attached to this LAN and the average
load of a given time based on the number of workstations to be installed.
The 10BaseT concentrators will attach to the backbone network, where all
the servers will reside.  My objective is to determine the type of backbone
required to handle the expected level of traffic from the workstations via
10BaseT concentrators -- the backbone can be either ethernet, token-ring, or
FDDI.

The purpose is to justify the type of backbone recommended based on
mathematical models (based on certain assumptions).

Any ideas?  Thanks. --GIF
From: x90farleigh1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Heartbeat/SQE ...
Date: 26 Dec 92 11:04:38 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

I am looking for information on the "heartbeat" or SQE signal (probably
different!?)

I have gotten the 802.3 standard and it simply mentions a flow chart or two,
but does not mention what these sinals ARE (are they real transmissions, or a
loopback to check operational status?) Also, why do they hose up a repeater?
(I believe they totally screw up a DEC DEMPR).

I think this info may be in the 802.3 a,b,c,etc. addendums, but I have no
access to these documents-

Can anyone help ?

Thanks!

Fred Farleigh ...
x90farleigh1@gw.wmich.edu
 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: b_goodwin@saar.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Dec and IEEE Spanning Tree differences
Reply-To: b_goodwin@saar.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:36:51 GMT


The DEC All Bridge multicast is 09-00-2B-01-00-00. If you are not using any
DEC propriatary spanning tree bridges, ie LANbrige 100 or Vitalink with 
older software, then use the IEEE spanning tree. Actually, If you set up
the CISCO's to use IEEE and the LANbridge 150 does not see any DEC propriatary
spanning tree, it will autoselect IEEE as the protocol.

Brad Goodwin
DEC Customer Support Center
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,bit.listserv.novell
From: rich@grebyn.com (Richard Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Read/Write speeds over Netware lite
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:28:21 GMT

In article <725434620snx@sound.demon.co.uk> rob@sound.demon.co.uk writes:
>I have been running a 4 node Netware lite with ethernet cables, and a mixture
>of 8/16 bit cards (NE1000, 3C503, WD16), and am worried about the speeds I've
>been getting...
>On PC-Tools' SI, I get around 160k-Read/160k-Write /second, but sometiems this
>drops to 100k-Read/30k-Write !

What is the other station doing at this time? Recall that Netware Lite
is a time splitter, and just doesn't get along well with certain TSR's
and programs on either machine (my favorite reason to invalidate a
purchase for it: it just doesn't get along well with Windows, no matter
what Novell says).

It's unlikely that in a small configuration like this that you are
having wiring/collision type problems, but it's always a possibility. My
first suggestion would be to boot with an absolutely clean
config/autoexec pair on two machines and run best case scenario tests
(remove the other machines for the purpose of this test). 

>Is this normal, and how can I improve this ?
>Can you give me some figures for any cards you've tested (from 8 to 32 bit) so
>I know what I'm up against ?

The LAN magazines would be a good place to look for this. Initial tests
placed Novell's performance pretty average (I believe the leader in peer
to peer OS's was LanTastic). 
>
>cheers
>-rob-
-- 
Rich Lawrence, Synoptics Systems Engineer  DOD#9630  rich@grebyn.com
     '92 Seca II "Yuri"  CI$:71101,2272  GEnie:R.LAWRENCE14
   216 years ago my government gave me certain inalienable rights.
     Since then, they've been trying to correct their mistake.