From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: EMT pop. of QC, by riding
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:31:12 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 6623

From article <Bs4Do2.Jst@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 Denis Beauregard wrote from his soap box :-)

> 1st : what is EMT?  It would be nice when using abbreviations
> that are not common to at least give some meaning, no?
> English Minority Troportion?

  English Mother Tongue

> 
> 2nd : I suppose you idd not type all that data, but took it from
> a (political party?) database.  FOr historical comparisons, why not
> using data from Statistics Canada?  Census divisions were about the
> same in 1871 and 1991 (except for Western Townships which was about not
> settled).  So, if your point is to say that those terriblific francos
> made some troubles to anglos that they leaved, your figure are
> useless.  Electoral Counties are changing almost each elections.
> And if you want to bring some hardcore arguments, why not comparing
> Electoral Listings so that you will know that Mr This is was present
> in 1975, but going out in 1979 (electoral listings are not available
> after 1979).  By the same time, you will have the opportunity
> to see at which extent some counties had listings in English only in
> Quebec.  First election I was, I could not even have the right to
> indicate my profession in French.  And this was in Montreal Island.

  You raised the subject of Quebec, and Montreal, demographics. I was
  just supplying some figures I had on hand. This particular set of
  figures came from the Quebec Liberals, if I remember correctly.


  If you are now starting another argument about the political motives
  inherent in statistical research of demographic trends you are going
  to lose me very quickly.

> 
> 3rd : if they will make you secure, please note that your previous
> figures were very wrong : you indicate 24% of anglos in 1860? and
> 10 % now.  This is not anglophones, this is of British origin, not
> at all the same thing.  Last figures I saw : 7% of British origin and
> anglophones, 13% of other origin and mostly anglophones, 80% of francos.
> I think francos is now 84%, including your child going to a French school.

 No, I meant

  "Percentage of the Quebec Population with English Mother Tongue",

 as stated;

 the figure of 24% in 1861 is sourced from census data, but the criteria
 used was "Non-French origin"; however, the percentage of all non-French 
 Canadians who were of British origin is quoted as having fallen from 93%
 in 1871 to 89% in 1901 - so you are partly right;

 A figure of 11% is quoted for English mother tongue from census data
 for 1981;

 The 1986 census indicates EMT population of Quebec at 10.4%. I think it
 is not unreasonable to deduce that the EMT population of Quebec is now
 "less than 10%"!;

 much of the data came from a book published by l'institut quebecois de
 recherche sur la culture entitled "The Forgotten Quebecers", by Ronald
 Rudin, page 153.; The information is quoted, in turn, as having come
 from "Source: Fernand Ouellet, Economic and Social History of Quebec
 (Ottawa, 1980), p.659; and from Census of Canada, 1844-1981 and I
 checked the census data mentioned in the Commissioner of Official
 Laguages Annual Reports.


  Other sources I use include the Conseil de la langue francaise, the
  official languages branch of the department of the Sec. of State, 
  Annual reports of the Commissioner of official languages and Annual
  Reports of the Quebec Minister o0f Education. There are others, but
  those are the main ones.
  
  Let's check your figures while we're at it:-

> ........  Last figures I saw : 7% of British origin and anglophones,
> 13% of other origin and mostly anglophones,
> 80% of francos.
> I think francos is now 84%, including your child going to a French school.

  1986 Census Data (as quoted in the Commissioner of Official Languages
  Annual report for 1990):-

   Mother Tongue:-

  Quebec:   English = 10.4%,  French = 82.8%,  Other = 6.8%


  Why would my child be included as a "Franco"?
  
  Apart from the fact that he wasn't born until 1986 :-))) - the criteria
  used in the census is English Mother Tongue. My wife was born, raised
  and educated in England, where we were married. My son's mother tongue,
  naturally, is English - and that is what will be written on his census
  form (if we are still here in 1996!).


  With regard to the French school, since you mentioned it:-

  From "Indicateurs de la situation linguistique au Quebec", from the
  Conseil de la langue francaise:-

   Pourcentage d'eleves dans le secteur d'enseignement
   francaise, par langue maternelle:-

              French  English  Other  Total
        1980   98.3    16.1    38.7    86.2
          84   98.9    17.0    56.5    88.7
          89   99.0    19.1    72.7    90.2

    I know they don't add up - I think it means, for example, that
    in 1989: 99.0% of the French mother tongue students in Quebec
    were attending French school, while 19.1% of English mother
    tongue students were attending French school, while 72.7% of
    "other" tongue students were attending French school, and of
    the total number of students in school in Quebec 90.2% of
    them were in French schools.

    The same source gives:-

    Percentage of English mother tongue students eligible for
    instruction in English (& therefore % EMT NOT eligible) :-

     All of Quebec:-

                    % eligible        %NOT eligible
              1983     86.0               14.0
                85     87.6               12.4
                87     87.4               12.6
                89     85.9               14.1

     All of Quebec:-

                    % eligible        %NOT eligible
              1983     87.5               12.5
                85     89.0               11.0
                87     88.5               11.5
                89     86.8               12.2

   i.e. One out of seven English mother tongue students in the
        Quebec school system are not eligible for instruction in
        their own language!

        Those "ineligible for instruction in English" English mother
        tongue children are less than 1% of the total Quebec school
        population. Denis considers that they would be a major threat
        to the survival of the French language and culture if they
        were not forced to attend French schools!!!!!!! >:-{

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
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