HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:19:55 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <BzovCK.5vs@news.iastate.edu> wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang) writes:
>
>How do you know those two people( namely, Cheng nan-rong and Jhen
>yi-hwa ) were forced by the "TI terrorist" to burn themself, istead
>of by their own will to express the right for freedom of speech?
>

No, I believe no soul in the world would burn itself without external
forces. And, according to the newspaper I read, they were inflamed by 
other people. 

I don't believe human being would have freedom of speech
after death, except by the people who intended to exploit the deaths.

>I think everyone has the right to choose whether independence or
>unification? And also has the freedom to express against any of them. But
>to cite something which has no truth in it is ignorant and
>superficial.
>

Irrelavent statements included. No comments.

>W.P. Wang
>


-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: wcn@cs.brown.edu (Wen-Chun Ni)
Subject: Re: Korean product boycott in Taiwan
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:11:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.193209.10976@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>
>I am curious how well the boycott of Korean product is working in Taiwan
>these days.  As I recall, there has been several reports on cancellation of
>trip to Korea, no customers in Korean car dealers, etc.
>
>From what I observed in Korea (usually against Japanese products), such
>emotion based boycott NEVER works.  Within a few months, regardless of the
>magnitude and reason of the boycott, it is business as usual.
>
>I am wondering if Taiwanese are any different in this regard.
>
>Sincerely.
>
>James Choi


Hey Hey Hey. Are Korean products supposed to be the same quality as
Japanese ones? I don't think so. Boycotting Korean products is *much*
easier than boycotting Japanese products. Period.



Wen-Chun Ni, wcn@cs.brown.edu         (401) 863-7669
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 I do more after 2 a.m. than most people do all day.
			 - from a T-shirt given by a friend.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Where to buy software in Taiwan
Date: 29 Dec 1992 01:38:06 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <1992Dec29.011113.18841%ckshih@ne.nthu.edu.tw>  (Chun-Kuan Shih) writes:
>u235@rex.uokhsc.edu (Yung-Jin Lee) writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >      ET System is commercially available at about NT$1200 in Taiwan.
>> >
>> 	Are you blind?
>
>       This is the price for personal copy, not of any special group
>       discount.  It is a basic ET system (Flying Disk No. 5), which
>       can be loaded in a 386 or 486 with DOS5.0 without taking any
>       conventional RAM.  It also comes with an HP laser jet driver
>       to print many variations of Chinese characters.  
>
I bought one set of ET software just a few weeks ago, from Kunag-Hua market
in Taipei, under the bridge of Taipei Institute of Technology. The software
costs me NT$1200. Besides, I also bought a set a key caps those are used
to replace English key caps when Chinese software becomes major application.

Besides, there are hundreds of software sets available in the market of 
Taiwan. Some applications is used at the customer of airport, some are used
in Chinese restaurants (There is no waitress or waiter, only one person 
serves at the door.  You pick up the food and fill out the menu, the person
will scan the menu.  Your food will be served directly from the kitchen in
a very short time that comes with the bill.), and the supermarket (Makro is
one of them using Chinese software in management the bill and inventory,
a foreign invested company mixed using Chinese and western software.),....

Along with the LCD dictionary, the Chinese language input method has many
ways. It is much easier than ealier version. Beijing is also included as
a Capital, as well as Nanjing. Peking is no more the only one representing
Beijing, Yanjing. 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: huangp@ralphie.Colorado.EDU (Pei-yu Huang)
Subject: NEWS RE: RECENT ELECTION IN TAIWAN 
Reply-To: huangp@ralphie.Colorado.EDU (Pei-yu Huang)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:42:38 GMT

"China News Digest (Global News)," January 2, 1993

Forwarded by: Liu Jian
Source: AP-DJ, 1/1/1993

TAIPEI -- An election official was arrested in eastern Taiwan Friday for
allegedly stuffing a batch of extra ballots in a ballot box during last
month's legislative elections, a prosecutor said.

Prosecutor Hung Cheng-ho said he ordered the detention of Peng Te-fu who had
monitored a polling station where 101 extra ballots were found during a vote
recount following the Dec. 19 elections.

Prosecutors have found that the number of ballots exceeded the number of
voters by 738 in 12 of the 54 polling stations in Hualien, 180 kilometers
southeast of Taipei, where election results were questioned.

Hung said an unidentified witness accused Peng of inserting the extra ballots,
but he denied the accusation.

The vote recount was demanded by Huang Hsin-chieh, former chairman of the
opposition Democratic Progressive Party, who lost by 62 votes to Nationalist
candidate Wei Mu-tsun, Hualien's mayor.

Huang's aides have accused Wei of collaborating with city and village
officials monitoring the vote to help him win. But Wei denied the charges.

Interior Minister Wu Poh-hsiung and Hualien Magistrate Wu Kuo-tung have
offered to resign to take responsibility for the voting irregularities, but
their resignations were later rejected by Premier Hau Pei-tsun.

Election officials said a re-election will be held in the districts where
vote-rigging was found to determine if Wei or Huang wins.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:17:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.163230.1413@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>I am not so pessimistic as you are. We have brains (Aren't you one of
>them?) and we are seeking a better living. Taiwanese businessmen are
>not so short-sighted as you said. What we need is a leadership from
>the government with a good policy not just protection.

Sometimes I do feel having brain individually doesn't mean having brain
in ensemble. Individually we look smart. But, we don't cooperate. We fight
each other. Even here on SCT. :)  Well, I still don't feel optimistic.
 
>> Taiwan's economic reform relies on the establishment of high-tech industry.
>> This includes setting up the technological foundation and healthy research
>> environment. I don't know how this can be related to TI.
>> 
>
>One example, how do we get some radio bands for our own research use
>even though we have our own satellite? Taiwan is not a member in UN
>and almost all of its suborganizations. We even don't have a chance
>to apply for radio bands. Re-enter international society is one of
>the most important keys to our economic reform. Independence is
>a better reason and a better way for us to reach the goal.

First, in my research field (semiconductors), whether a country has a
seat in UN is never considered as a factor. Your example makes some
sense, but it can't commonly apply to every field. Secondly, even if
Taiwan declares independence, it will still be hard for Taiwan to enter
UN. If China can use "unfair competition" to hinder Taiwan's economy,
she can use the same method to hinder Taiwan's reentry to UN. Besides,
declaration of immediate independence may cause the risk of war, which
is adverse to Taiwan's economy.

>Whether someone can introduce a better reason and a better way?

Unification. :)  (Unification is a form of cooperation.)
But only after China becomes a democratic country.

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsen0001@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: United Daily  <was: World Journal> 
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:30:03 GMT

In article <2B367D00.10894@news.service.uci.edu> tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao) writes:
>In article <ljcai7INNoh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin) writes:
>>
><lines deleted>
>>Recently, the TIers in Taiwan accused that the United Daily and World Journal
>>as a message passer of People's Daily. No matter what the accusation was, is
>>there any basis to say so?  Isn't that funny to say so?  Or TIers just try
>>to blacken everything that does not work in the same line as TIers want to be?
>
>I heard a lot of complains from TIers that all the media was biased. Besides
>arguing that no media can be *completely neutral*, 
>
There was(is?) a movement of 'For saving Taiwan's sake, Stop subscription
to NewsPaper' (Twei4 Bao4 Jiou4 Taiwan, the Bao4 here is United Daily) on
November at Taiwan.  They accused United Daily for distorting news and
speaker of CCP.  Does anyone know what's the situation of the movement now?

The lawyer of United Daily even wrote letters to those newspapers who reported
this news warning for possible lawsuit...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: test,ignore this information
From: tsen+@cs.cmu.edu (Chung Kang Tsen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:16:09 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Taiwan, UN, PRC [Was Re: more than 50% support TI]
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:02:54 GMT

From article <1992Dec31.180236.609@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, by li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tom Li):
> 
> Most of us want Taiwan return to the UN. But PRC has veto rights it can be
> extremely difficult. 
> 

I am not sure about the above argument. Are there experts who can help us
to clarify it? It's even better that the source of reference is given.

Do USA have right to veto Texas' applying for entering UN when Texas
declare independence after a Texas referendum?

How about Tibet (if they can have one referendum someday) ?

How about Taiwan?

Heng-Hsin

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:29:51 GMT

In article <C00EFF.MK3@news.iastate.edu> wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang) writes:
>
>Basically I think no TIer will deny their Han identity. They simply
>deny they are Chinese *politically* (yes, that's the reason they are
>pro-TI :-) ). It is like you speak English but you don't have to be 
>English. 
>
>W.P. Wang

Actually some don't deny their Chinese identity at all.  Most of my 
friends who are sympathetic to TI concept agree with the following: 
"They are Chinese, Taiwanese are Chinese, but that Chinese identity
has no influence to them when they select the government form in 
Taiwan."

Eric
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann())
Subject: About posting in Chinese
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:12:51 GMT

  
Dear Chinese Netters:
    There are so many guys want to know how to use chinese system, 
and I am glad to see that!
    My previous postings maybe not clear enough so many guys still
don't know how to use chinese system. Well, I tell you how to do 
again.
    I know 3 configurations which can work with Chinese system:

      1. Unix HOSTs/Stations which employ cxterm cvi ... under
         X window environment can run Chinese without any problem.
         This is the best solution because you can see both Big-5
         code or GB-code under this environment. Besides, you'd
         better chenge the shell to csh because some shell (like
         tcsh) will treat the Chinese code as its control code!

      2. PC with Ethernet.... you should do these steps I listed in
         the previous posting.

      3. PC with modem can also work! and it's similar to use Ethernet.

    Note, if you want to use Chinese system with PC you MUST first
make sure that your EDITOR & Data Transmitter are working in the 8-bit
mode, for the Chinese characters are coded in two full bytes. Notice
these are FULL bytes rather than English characters are usually encoded 
in 7-bit/CHAR. So you must use 8-bit version of vi (so called cvi) to
edit your artiles, 8-bit version of Ethernet Driver/Modem Driver which
can transmit and receive data of 8-bit long.
    So, if you have PC and use Ethernet to connect to the HOST, you need
the modified TELNET or some other driver program of 8-bit. If you link to
the HOST by MODEM you should change the transmittion mode to 8-bit. In
both cases you should find a 8-bit compatible editor( like cvi ) to edit
your Chinese text.
    Last, if your HOST is IBM machine, you should not to looking for cvi
because the editor of IBM system can work with Chinese system.

    OK, that's almost what I know. If I get any new information I'll
post it to let you know.
 
     p.s The modified Telnet I use is the NCSA ncutel.exe which you can
         get from anonymous FTP of csie.nctu.edu.tw. IP address is
         140.114.17.159 . They are in /pub/msdos/NCSA/Chinese .


 
                                                                  Shann 
  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:04:31 GMT

In article <C03IGE.rA@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>How much can you prepare? If there is going to be War across the Straight, it
>will not be a little one. For China side, Westen intervention should be
>considered. It will not be a civil War, it is going to be another battle

	Well, you certainly miss a civil war that is going on in mainland;
	a war between people who is gradually getting wealthy and will demand
	power and and a government who try to continue to control them.
	To a sense, you are right, in your ideology, it is a war between
	China and West. Unfortunately, most Chinese seem to be on the side
	of the West when they are given the choices than your CCP's government
	who continue to equal itself with China in order to win this war.

	"There is a war going on in China NOW!"

	I think you know it and that is why you like to use Taiwan to
	rally mainlanders back to your government in the name of
	nationism. But it may not work in the future as your government
	will face challenge from your people.

>You know, We mainlanders are no longer Confusious_moralist_whimpy_monks. Past
>history of China taught us not to have any illusions in dealing with the
>West.

	I think almost everyone know some mainlanders who control China
	are no whimpy monks; just check how much bloodshed had your beloved 
	comrade caused.  The funny thing is not much of those bloodshed is 
	done to the West. IMO, they are Stalin_moralist_bully_thugs.
	Come to your senses, get away from those thugs and their agenda,
	and come back to your people and their wellfare.


Yung-Kao Hsu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Repost: Excellence, Made in Taiwan
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 14:10:24 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


Due to an error in my previous posting, the information is incomplete,
let me try again.  My apology for the error.

A two page advertisement article in TIME magazine:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Excellence, Made in Taiwan

	Today, many of the finest products in the world come with a new and very
exclusive label.
	Introducing Taiwan's Symbol of Excellence.
	When you see it on our products, like this stereo system, it's your 
guarantee of world-class technology and quality.
	Now you may be saying to yourself "a symbol is nice, but give me some
real facts."
	Okay, here they are.
	When it comes to tennis racquets, we're not an imitator. We're the
innovator.
	We were the first to take carbon fiber graphite from rockets and put it
into racquets to make them stronger, lighter and more flexible.  So you can 
serve some "rockets" of your own.
	In computers, we offer you another first.  The first computer that
automatically upgrades to five time its power by simply plugging in a microchip.
It's breakthrough technology that doesn't break your budget.
	And recently, one of our mountain bikes was named 1992 Bike of the Year
by Mountain Biking magazine.  "...It's an outstanding achievement in quality,
value and performance."
	But our biggest advancement is makeing this cutting-edge technology
and world-class quality surprisingly affordable.
	So the next time you see this symbol on our products, you'll know 
exactly what it represents:
			
	Exellence, Made in Taiwan.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	I was trying to figure out what's the brandname of the stereo system
in the Ad, but failed.  Maybe some netters could point that out.
Although this article in and of itself is interesting, I have been thinking what else can we proudly show to the world?


Hsiou-Ping

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 22:15:41 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1993Jan2.233229.13167@topaz.ucq.edu.au>, huangz@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:

> 	Worst thing was the possible war lasted several years, or several
> decades. Yes, even 60% taiwanese could supported TI, but still there were 
> 40% against it, and surely there would be some percent of people were 
> determinded to fight to death to protect ROC.
	
	I'm working on persuading the other 40% to join the 60% in case
China uses force, so expect a unanimous 100% support for TI in that situation.
The price of invading Taiwan will be very high, so you might want to
suggest Beijing government think twice. In addition, China will lose all the
foreign investments, cooperations, and economic growth because of the war.

Even a blockade of Taiwan Straight will lead to the same reaction from Taiwan. 
 
> 	It is not a funny game! look at history of China, it usually takes
> several decades to restore order and law after big society change. Lood at
> Yugoslavia and Bosnia, look at former Soviet Union, look at Korea, look at
> Germany, look at North Ireland, and look at ourselves(if someone don't like
> this word, take it as Taiwan and Chinese mainland), how painful is to be 
> seperated into hostile entities! It is time to work out how to unify, but not 
> how to seperate further. It may be a long and painful process, but won't be 
> longer and more painful than an endless civil war.
	
You posted to a wrong newsgroup; people of Taiwan won't initiate a war.
But, there is no way we give up our freedom, democracy and our established
achievements to avoid a war.   As long as the threat is there, TI will be there.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T Bell Lab
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:32:30 GMT

> 
> I'm pessimistic about Taiwan's ability to upgrade her industry. Although
> there is some R&D in Taiwan, overall it's far from adequate. Most Taiwan's
> businessmen have no interest in high-tech industry. When the labor in
> Taiwan gets expensive, they simply move to other countries where labor is
> still cheap. A great part of Taiwan's investment is for low-tech industry
> in other countries now.
> 
> Korea might come close to Japan in technology someday. But Taiwan is not
> on the right track so far.
> 

I am not so pessimistic as you are. We have brains (Aren't you one of
them?) and we are seeking a better living. Taiwanese businessmen are
not so short-sighted as you said. What we need is a leadership from
the government with a good policy not just protection.

> 
> Taiwan's economic reform relies on the establishment of high-tech industry.
> This includes setting up the technological foundation and healthy research
> environment. I don't know how this can be related to TI.
> 

One example, how do we get some radio bands for our own research use
even though we have our own satellite? Taiwan is not a member in UN
and almost all of its suborganizations. We even don't have a chance
to apply for radio bands. Re-enter international society is one of
the most important keys to our economic reform. Independence is
a better reason and a better way for us to reach the goal. Whether
someone can introduce a better reason and a better way?

> ... 
> -- Chien-Chung Chen

Heng-Hsin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:09:17 GMT

In article <_4a=vr#@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
>
>	Your assumption has been: The only possible case that China will
>use force is Taiwan's declaration of independence.    I am willing to see your
>assumption come true, but I suggest we also prepare TI to make sure we have
>another choice if your assumption happens to be wrong.

That's not my assumption.  My assumption is that China can use force when it
finds the pretext to and finds itself strong enough to defeat Taiwan despite
any possible foreign intervention and/or finds Taiwan without anyone to
intervene for.  If Beijing finds foce feasible, it then will use force.

>	Neither TI nor unification can prevent China from using force.
>Today, even though TI is suppressed and unification is favored by the government
>, CCP still waiving its fist against us.  However, TI can make CCP think twice
						    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>before it decides to ask unreasonable demands from us.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is where my objection is.  My contention is that it won't.  If Beijing
finds itself strong enough and willing to take action against Taiwan, it will,
whether if Taiwan declares independence or not.  In fact, if the above
condition applies, TI will in fact make a perfect pretext for military action.
(If Beijing is willing to take military action anyway, why should it care
about what the people in Taiwan think?)

>	I didn't say unification option is so bad, because any available option
>is to our advantage.  TI is another option that we like to have. 

Yes.  And we must weigh the advantages and disadvantages of that option before
declaring it a shield against communist aggression.

>	I am very happy to see this.  Discussing TI in a national scale
>will help eliminate the hostility between the pro-TI and pro-unification camps.

Well, I do support discussion of TI, as I wrote in another article, but I am
not sure it is true.  Discussion of abortion rights, for example, hasn't
eliminated the hostility between the pro-life and the pro-choice camps, for
example, and the TI issue can be as divisive.  That doesn't mean that it
shouldn't be discussed, though, since allowing it (and other issues) to be
discussed is an essential element to the democratization of Taiwan.

>	I didn't say TI is a panacea.  I cannot see why you said this. Could
>you enlighten me? 

Because you kept mentioning that TI will cause China to think twice before
it takes action that are of no delicacy to the people in Taiwan?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan