HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: snow goose
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:18:48 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug13.200942.1225@webo.dg.com>, fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
> 
> PS, i am routinely on the bays in Liong Island, without a chart or loran, 
> only 6gal of fuel and NO RADIO.. 

  I think this posting belongs in alt.suicide .  E.g., "..if someone decides
  to commit suicide, am I morally obligated to try to stop him/her...".

  Yeah, I know, you've been doing this for twenty years and nothing has ever
  happened.  

  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Subject: Help Ant. cable
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:02:23 GMT

I need some net help. I am installing a new vhf and new mast mount ant.
Some have told me to use only RG 8 or RG 8x. Others have said RG58. Install
guide say to use appropriate cable. 

Very confused.  HELP

Thanks for the help





Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:57:45 GMT

In article <Bt4A2C.FH0@kings.demon.co.uk>, lls@kings.demon.co.uk (Lady Lodge Systems) writes:

> I thought that, in the UK, before one is allowed to use a marine VHF
> radio (except in cases of emergency) you had to be licensed or be under
> the direct supervision of someone who is.  Additionally, the vessel
> itself must be registered and license paid before the VHF can be fitted.
...
> Of course this wouldn't help with the non-licensed boats but a quick
> walk through the marinas looking for VHF masts and the lack of licenses
> should bring a few offenders to light.  Hang them from the yard-arm and
> others might think twice :-)

In the US the VHF operator doesn't need a license, but the boat
needs a station license.  It's around $35.

There was an interesting article about this in a San Francisco area
sailing magazine.  Some fellow whose station license had expired
a few months previously gave his boat name and call letters when 
making a call.  FCC operators were monitoring the channel. They looked up
his call letters and found that his license had expired.  The 
fine: $8000!  

Gotta reduce that federal budget deficit somehow.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:00:37 GMT

donr@hpcvcdo.cv.hp.com (Don Reid) writes:

>: >Stuart Walker talks about a boat on the port tack layline (situation:
>: >coming into a weather mark with starboard rounding) slowing down to force
>: >a starboard tacker to cross and then tack slightly past the layline with the
>: >original port boat inside. Presumably coming in at full speed would require a
>: >duck below the layline by the port tack boat with the stbd. effectively 'slam
>: >dunking' right at the layline. Then he says a defense against this for the
>: >stbd boat is also slow down while maintaining course. I have to say that at
>: >first thought this seems pretty borderline, but then again I don't remember,
>: >what do the rules say about maintaining speed as well as course?
>: 
>: Rule 35: Limitations on altering course
>: 
>:          When one yacht is required to keep clear of another, the row
>:          yacht shall not alter course so as tp prevent the other yacht
>:          from keeping clear, or so as to obstruct her while she is
>:          keeping clear
>: 

>You left off a bit of the rule which makes a difference for the case above:

>The full rule is:

>          When one yacht is required to keep clear of another, the r-o-w
>          yacht shall not alter course so as to prevent the other yacht
>          from keeping clear, or so as to obstruct her while she is
>          keeping clear, except:

>	  (a) To the extent permitted by rule 38.1, Luffing Rights, and

>	  (b) when assuming a proper course:
>	      either

>	      (i)	to start, unless subject to rule 40, Same Tack, Luffing
>			before Clearing the Starting Line, or to the second 
>			part of rule 44.1(b), Returning to Start,

>	      or

>	      (ii)	when rounding a mark.


>I read this (b)(ii) as allowing the starboard tack boat to tack in front
>of the port tack boat to round the mark.

No.  Rule (b)(ii) does not apply.  The starboard boat may tack only
if he is able to tack just as if the mark was not there.  If he
tacks directly in front of the port tack boat so that the port tack
boat must change course before S has completed their tack then 
S is at fault.  Rule (b)(ii) allows a boat, for example, to head up
after rounding a mark.  If you are on port you still have to keep clear
of any starboard boats.


The rule talks about altering course (i.e. direction) not altering 
speed and as such, nothing stops you from slowing down.  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: How windy?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:47:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.120304.14234@eng.umd.edu> crouse@eng.umd.edu (Gil Crouse) writes:
>In article <l94rfrINN5fr@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>>[observing that wind on drizzly day seemed stronger than instruments indicated]
>                        However, the water on the sails would probably
>also decrease the sail's effectiveness somewhat (less smooth
>surface?), which would offset this to a certain degree.  

In the days of square-riggers and cotton sails, it was not uncommon to 
wet down the sails in very light winds, so that less of the breeze would pass
through them, thus making them *more* efficient. I expect that this effect
is no linger significant with Dacron, etc., sails :-).


>I would guess that the psychological effect of the rain is more
>significant than its physical effects.  I imagine heavy wind + rain is
>more intimidating than heavy wind alone.  This is definitely true of
>the temperature and "sunnyness".  20 knots breeze on a 80 degree day
>with the sun shining is very different than 20 knots when its 50
>degrees out and the sky is black.

It's also true of even sillier things----sunglasses. I've been out in my
Tornado in a cold sweat worrying about the weather, which looked as if
the worst squall ever were about to blast me. Then I took off the glasses
and realized it was just low, grey, overcast. Sigh.

-John
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:49:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>   For what it's worth, Olin recommends disposing of handheld flares more
>than three years out of date by lighting them and immediately dropping 
>them overboard. I don't remember anything about a pail of water. This may

It seems odd that Olin would recommend littering the waterway
with old toxic trash.

-rcf
From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:16:20 GMT
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Aug13.083011@doodly.mcc.dec.com> swist@took.enet.dec.com writes:
>I don't understand this at all.  This billion dollar boat full of people is
>going WOT in water 39 feet with a draft of 34 feet?  This is approx the
>same as me taking my elcheapo boat with a draft of 3' into water 3' 5"
>deep at full throttle.       What's wrong with this picture?

Look at it this way...  IF she had been seriously holed, she wouldn't have
sunk very far, would she?  :-)

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Lady Anna
Keywords: gone
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:37:57 GMT

Does anyone have any details of the sinking of Lady Anna this
past Thursday, 3:00 am off Cape May.  All I heard is that the captain
woke the owner and guests telling them the boat was taking on water.
Five minutes later the boat was gone.  For those who do not know 
Lady Anna, she's a 120' aluminum sport fisherman.  Supposedly the 
largest in the world.  
The boat was kept a few blocks from my house and I've seen her many
times.  Reports claim she was taking waves over the stern before
she went down.  From the looks of her the only way water could
enter the boat would be through the door to the engine room, if
it were left open.  Anyone have any ideas how she went down?

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: snow goose
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:44:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.135845.3799@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.131710.5294@phri.nyu.edu>, roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>> fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
>> >You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
>> 
>> >Or, alternatively.. exactly what is the proceedure for calling for help
>> >(VHS or CB) when you are on the bay, w/o Loran, and out of gas. 
>> 
>> .....  Anyway, try calling a commercial marine tow service (SeaTow,
>> for example) on VHF.  Presumably you've got some sort of local marine
>> services directory on board that lists what channels the various tow
>> services listen to.  If not, I would take a guess and try 09, 68, or 72.
>
>The proper procedure to raise a commercial towing service is to use the calling
>frequencies of VHF 16 or (recently FCC approved) 9 and ask for commercial 
>assistance.  16 and 9 are designated as both the calling AND distress
>frequencies.  9 times out of 10, you will get a response from one of these 
>firms within 10 seconds asking you to "switch and answer on XX channel".
>It is in their business interest to respond before their competition does.
>
>Capt. Jack Adams		| Bellcore RRC 4B-259
>(908) 699-3447 {Voice}		| (908) 336-2871 {Facsimile}
>jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>	-- Those who fail to plan, plan to fail --


-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:27:25 GMT

guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:
> This is an area where definitions are key.  Overtaking and windward and
> leeward are mutually exclusive.  In other words one can be overtaking
> only if there is no overlap or said another way if there is no overlap
> then you can't be windward or leeward.  The rule overtaking boat must
> keep clear tends to be misused or maybe I should say over used.

	Definitions are indeed key, and overtaking is not defined.  It's
not that the rule which says the overtaking boat must keep clear tends to
be misused, but that it tends not to exist.  I don't believe there is any
mention of the term "overtaking" whatsoever in the 1989-92 IYRU Rules.
They rules talk about boats clear ahead and clear astern, not overtaking
(note: COLREGS does indeed talk about overtaking vessels, but not IYRU).

	Overtaking implies an action on the part of one boat; there is a
boat which is doing the overtaking and a boat which is having the
overtaking being done to it.  Clear ahead and clear astern simply imply a
spatial relationship.  The distinction becomes important in situations like
the one we've been talking about where a boat is sailing backwards towards
a boat which is sailing forwards (or perhaps, dead in the water, or even
sailing backwards, but not as quickly as the first boat).  You can argue
about which boat is overtaking when they are going backwards, but there is
no argument (modulo the vagarities of human perception) about when they go
from being clear ahead/clear astern to windward/leeward.  The definitions
of clear ahead, clear astern, and overlapped are quite specific, mutually
exclusive, and make no mention of the motion either boat; all that matters
is the instantaneous spatial relationship of the two.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: Re: marine heads - advice/recommendations wanted
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:37:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Keywords: groco head

In article <914@seahcx.UUCP> kenh@seahcx.UUCP (Ken Hughes) writes:
>I have a Groco Model EB electric head on my boat.  I've had 
>problems with it since day one (it was a used boat).  I've 
>
>Any experience with this model or recommendations on how to 
>make it work or low cost alternatives would be appreciated.

Yes. Rip the bugger out and replace it with a Raritan PHII (manual)
head. No, don't you go near those attractive little compact models,
unless you have a space crunch. And the W-C head with the plunger
will pee water all over your fingers after about a year (yuck).
 
The PHII means business, and is great for recreational vessels. Of
course, for a commercial vessel you'd go for the same thing made
out of bronze and stainless...
 
Greg
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:21:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
> So that my son would know how to use the gun if there was ever a need, I
> showed him the correct procedure as described in the manual.

	The flare kit I have came with a special "practice" flare.  I think
it's got the charge that makes the flare shoot out of the gun, but not the
charge that makes the visible signal.

	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
to dispose of them?

-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Subject: Re: Marine VHF Licensing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:44:00 GMT

In article <venable.124@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu>, venable@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu (Wallace Venable) writes...
>>Also, can someone hail me from shore (like to come pick them up) with a
>>portable?  If so, do they have to be licensed?
>	They must have a SHORE STATION LICENSE.  Almost impossible to get 
>unless you run a marine business

I have an idea that a marine station licence (in Canada, anyway) will cover 
handhelds also in this kind of situation, the callsign being followed by 
-Alpha (or Bravo, etc.) to indicate this. Don't quote me on this (at least, 
don't act on it without checking).

BTW, you *do* need an operator certificate (and a station licence) to operate 
a marine VHF in Canada. I don't know what the situation would be for a 
non-licensed operator of a voluntarily equipped US boat in Canadian waters...

Andrew, ALASTOR, Vancouver
From: joel@ssd.intel.com (Joel Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Heads, portapotties, composting toilets, and theory question
Keywords: heads, toilets, peatmoss
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:55:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: SSD.1992Aug20.225530.2456
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.

In article <20AUG199214391138@cc.utah.edu> nahaj@cc.utah.edu (John Halleck) writes:
}I notice that for home use there are many composting toilets availiable,
}but for marine use everything seems to be one flavor or another of
}holding tank and pump.
}
}Does anybody know if composting toilets are ALLOWED for marine use?
}
}What disadvantages do people see for them?  (Advantages include SMALL
}volume of final material to dispose of.)  I can only think of their somewhat 
}larger size as a disadvantage at the moment, but I suspect there are others.
}
}- John Halleck

The only composting toilets I have seen (on Soucia Island, Puget Sound USA) 
is over half the size of my 42' sail boat!!  I'll stick to my holding tank.

joel clark
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:49:00 GMT

>> The privileged vessel is primarily responsible
>> to maintain course and speed so that the burdened vessel can avoid
>> her.  

Stuart Walker talks about a boat on the port tack layline (situation:
coming into a weather mark with starboard rounding) slowing down to force
a starboard tacker to cross and then tack slightly past the layline with the
original port boat inside. Presumably coming in at full speed would require a
duck below the layline by the port tack boat with the stbd. effectively 'slam
dunking' right at the layline. Then he says a defense against this for the
stbd boat is also slow down while maintaining course. I have to say that at
first thought this seems pretty borderline, but then again I don't remember,
what do the rules say about maintaining speed as well as course?

Another rules thing I'm not real clear on: Say it's before the start and lets
say it's light air. A boat is close reaching on stbd. but going slowly. Another
boat comes up from behind and gets a slight leeward overlap. This boat can then
take the first boat up to close hauled (slowly). But the windward boat can't
come up! If she does her stern will swing down and foul the leeward boat. The
rules say the clear ahead boat does NOT have to anticipate the establishment of
an overlap, but it would seem that if you don't anticipate then there is no way
to escape commiting a foul. The right move is to come up to close hauled
(assuming you will not be forced over) so they cannot luff w/o getting ahead of
mast abeam. Or come down so they can't get in top leeward. Or bail out early
enough over their bow. Comments?



Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Where to buy small sailboats
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:30:28 GMT

Jun Kim writes:

	I'm new to this group and sailing, and I was hoping to find out 
	some stuff which was of interest to me...  Where can I purchase 
	small sailboats (approx 14'... e.g. puffers, lasers, lidos, etc)  
	in the SF bay area?  Where do I look to find info on new/used 
	boats on sale?

Jun, you are in luck. I have the infamous PEEP for sale, having just bought
a larger boat. Stur-Dee Cat. 14' 8". 7' beam. 130 sq ft sail. 2hp honda
4-stroke outboard. cover, compass, &c.,&c. This boat has been sailed up
and down and around Redwood Creek for the past nine months, and is in Lloyd's
A1 condition.

Look at it, and you;ll fall in love all over again. Otherwise, try LAT 38
or LONGDITUDE 122. These are giveaways, and a good source is West Marine
on San Antonio in Mountain View -- probably round the corner from your SUN
office. They come out once a month, LAT38 on the first of each month. LAT
has a particularly good small boat section in the classified.

Gybe Ho

Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
From: johng@gratton.net.com (John Gratton)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:31:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Redwood City

In article <1992Aug12.162125.12849@phri.nyu.edu> roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>> So that my son would know how to use the gun if there was ever a need, I
>> showed him the correct procedure as described in the manual.
>
>	The flare kit I have came with a special "practice" flare.  I think
>it's got the charge that makes the flare shoot out of the gun, but not the
>charge that makes the visible signal.

	I thought this was a white flare, used for collision avoidance.
For instance, if you're about to be run over by a ship you set off white
flares, but if you're in need of assistance you set off red flares.
I guess it's 'allowable' to set off white flares when you are not in danger of
being run down.

>
>	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
>to dispose of them?
>

	I think you can take them to your local fire department.
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: snow goose
Date: 15 Aug 92 13:17:10 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
>You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
>WHAT EXACTLY WOULD YOU DO, if not fire off a flare (or two).. 

And what, may I ask, are you doing 2 miles offshore without a radio?

>Or, alternatively.. exactly what is the proceedure for calling for help
>(VHS or CB) when you are on the bay, w/o Loran, and out of gas. I could 
>believe that a mayday is a little extreme, but I don't know any alternative.

	What difference does having or not having loran make when you're
out of gas?  Anyway, try calling a commercial marine tow service (SeaTow,
for example) on VHF.  Presumably you've got some sort of local marine
services directory on board that lists what channels the various tow
services listen to.  If not, I would take a guess and try 09, 68, or 72.
Lacking any response, you might try calling the Coast Guard on 22 and
asking them if they know the name and calling channel of a local tow
service.

	Then, as soon as you get back on shore, run to the nearest marine
store and purchase 1) a local marine services directory, and 2) a spare gas
tank.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: nahaj@cc.utah.edu (John Halleck)
Subject: Heads, portapotties, composting toilets, and theory question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords:  heads, toilets, peatmoss
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: 20 Aug 1992 14:39 MST  

I notice that for home use there are many composting toilets availiable,
but for marine use everything seems to be one flavor or another of
holding tank and pump.

Does anybody know if composting toilets are ALLOWED for marine use?
(This is just a theory question at the moment...  but I'd like to know.)

Is there anybody out there that has tried a composting toilet for marine
use?

What disadvantages do people see for them?  (Advantages include SMALL
volume of final material to dispose of.)  I can only think of their somewhat 
larger size as a disadvantage at the moment, but I suspect there are others.

- John Halleck