HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:08:43 GMT

In article <44582@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
(Tommy Hwang) writes:
>
>     Maybe I got it wrong, but the discussion over
>"rec.arts.comics.manga" seemed to have created a thought of
>"rec.arts.anime.animation" in my mind.  If it should be
>rec.arts.comics.manga, then why was it not rec.arts.anime.animation
>for the animation newsgroup?  It did came after the anime newsgroup
>in terms of charter time.  ne? :-) :-) Just a thought.

For myself, I'm not arguing for "rec.arts.comics.manga" solely on the
grounds of temporal priority.

But try proposing a name-change, if you like.  Shouldn't it be
rec.arts.anime.western, though?  Then again, in an animation newsgroup
that might cause confusion with "westerns".

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:08:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr16.145222@kazoo.ssd.loral.com>, brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com (Brian Brunner) writes:
> 1:You are hurting scia
> 	there has been a vote, which has been rejected

Thai is being decided in this straw poll.

> 	there is now a vote going on which _might_ succeed.

There is no vote going on right now other than the straw poll.

> 	You cannot fix the broken vote you ran.
Possibly.
> 		you ran it, you broke it.

Your point of view.

> 	You are strenuously attempting to break a vote which
> 		might otherwise work.

There is no vote going on right now.
There is nothing to break.


> 2:You are attempting to establish a dangerous precident
> 	asserting that only the vote taker can determine whether
> 		the vote-taker has been unfaithful

WRONG! The netusers are being asked to determine that via this straw poll
which I am conducting. I am not deciding it.

> 	inventing a minority voice control on a vote of
> 		no-confidence on  unethical vote-taking
> 		read: a minority override of a majority
> 		agreement (nay: concensus) that something
> 		is rotten in Delhi.

Bullshit. (See above).

> Since your name and scia are loudly linked by you, and since you
> are conducting yourself as an incredibly dense bozo with an
> acquired clue immunity syndrome (I won't blame this condition
> of yours in God or your parents) the more noise you generate
> the more opposition to SCIA you create. Now is the time to
> fall silent.
> 

Rotten you! You are not even worth discussing the issue with with your
half-witted mails and emails.


> --
> HELP!! Somebody slapped a "stop payment" on my sanity check!!

It shows !!!

> brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com; Space Systems/Loral; Palo Alto, Calif.
> Black Holes... the /dev/null of the Universe; the opinion of 65534.


Disgusted,

Alok
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered reorganization
Reply-To: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 05:36:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.181615.16879@uunet.uu.net>, root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob
Kirkpatrick) writes:
|> This RFD supercedes the previous issue, which did not address all of the
|> proposed changes.
|> 
|> REMOVE: misc.jobs.offered
|> 
|> CREATE: misc.jobs.entry    = positions offered to entrylevel applicants
|>         misc.jobs.expert   = positions offered to the experienced
|>         misc.jobs.recruit  = positions offered by recruitment agents
|> 

This is ridiculous.  You are removing necessary information (the fact that
these are being offered) from the name.  Additionally, "5 years experience"
does not define "expert"... where do the non-entry, non-expert jobs go?  (Or
are your egoes too big to admit to these?)  Finally, whose business is it if
a job is offered by an exployer or a recruiter?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:17:34 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Apr8.180706.6109@julian.uwo.ca> magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john macdonald) writes:
|In article <frnk.702743924@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:
|>In <1992Apr7.232621.7778@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie (kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu) writes:
|>>                                            There's an alt group for that
|>>already; if you can't get it at your site, FTP it.
|>   The alt group was created as a direct result of the rec.music.enya RFD. If
|
|No, alt.music.enya was not created as a direct result of the RFD.

You`re right. alt.music.enya was created as a direct result of 
alt.music.enya.puke.puke.puke.


-- 
+=============================================================================+
| John Fereira                Al Bundy for President          
| johnf@auspex.com         "He's as good as the next guy"                     |
+=============================================================================+
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:54:08 GMT

In article <9APR199219414640@vms2.iscs.nus.sg> limkiong@vms2.iscs.nus.sg
(Twas brillig, and the slithy toves...) writes:
>Certainly nothing in its charter constrains its discussion to Western
>comics.  However, that is how it is being used. Therefore the word
>comics used here does refer to Western comics.

If the usage determines the meaning, then the meaning can be adjusted
by including "manga" under it.  As I've pointed out, I've observed no
feeling in the group that manga are inappropriate for discussion there.

>>My mind is always open.  That's why I'm continuing the discussion.
>
>Then you would not make the statement you did. Perhaps a more
>appropriate statement would be - "Unless someone convinces me
>otherwise, I will vote NO"?

Perhaps I should make a general proclamation now:  Unless my opinions
change, they will stay the same.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 10 Apr 1992 00:15:46 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Apr9.225319.19349@athena.mit.edu> pckyip@athena.mit.edu (Patrick C Yip) writes:
>Finally, no HATE VOTE please. Debate is an art of communication, and sometimes
>it's difficult to keep a calm mind when you are so into it.

I've seen comments like this several times now, and feel compelled to comment.

I don't think there's a question in anyone's mind at all that a manga group is
a Good Thing. I've seen nobody debate that issuee

Where we disagree is the appropriate place for the group in the namespace. The
manga fanatics think that placing it in the comics hierarchy is an insult;
they cry, "MANGA AREN'T COMICS!!!" while using the word comics all over the
place in defining what manga is. The rest of us want a reasonably ordered
namespace, and think it's important enough to vote NO if the proposal has an
illogical name. I'm in the latter category. I have no problem whatsoever with
a manga group in the mainstream hierarchy, but will vote NO if the group is
misnamed, in the hope that the proponents will then return with an appropriate
name. I don't hate you or your group at all. I just want the name right.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
         "Grow up children. Purchase lives." -- Geoff Collyer
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 11 Apr 1992 12:18:10 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <axolotl.702969671@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>It's expected that people who know what manga are, or even what
>the word means, will be the people who are posting there.  Anyone
>who comes there expecting "comics" will just be wasting their time.

This shows a basic flaw in your reasoning:

Newsgroup names are not just for those who know about the subject of the
group. They are also for those who know nothing about the group.

The first group would be served by the name rec.arts.manga. The second group
would be greatly disserved.

By comparison. the name rec.arts.comics.manga serves both.

I suspect that you'll get a lot of NO votes if you stick with rec.arts.manga
as the name. Is it that important to you to salve your (mistaken) feeelings
about being somehow subordinate to comics that you are willing to jeopardize
the creation of your group? If you really want the group, you'll see the error
of your ways.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
         "Grow up children. Purchase lives." -- Geoff Collyer
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.comics
From: c60a-dy@amazon.Berkeley.EDU (Mikey likes it)
Subject: Re: Who'd win: Captain Napalm vs. Atomic Man
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:45:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.024640.29812@udel.edu> wagenfuh@huey.udel.edu (Karl Wagenfuehr) writes:
>Just to keep annoyance levels high:  in an all out battle, who would win:
>Captain Napalm from Calvin & Hobbes, or Atomic Man from the Simpsons?

   Well, based on the actual destruction levels of the namesakes, I would
have to say Atomic Man.
   However, based on the fact that Atomic Man is a good guy, and Captain
Napalm is Calvin, I'd have to say that in a realistic battle between the
two, Calvin would kick Atomic Man's ASS!!!!!!!

Mikel B.  ----C & H fan

Calvin: "Hobbes, do you think our morality is defined
	 by our actions, or by whats in our hearts?"

Hobbes: "I think our actions SHOW whats in our hearts."

Calvin: "I RESENT THAT!!!"

>-- 
>                    ' ",      *
>Karl Wagenfuehr         ,         "Weisst du, wieviel Sternlein stehen an dem
>wagenfuh@huey.udel.edu  ,  '      blauen Himmelszelt?"  --Deutsches Volkslied
>                          '
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:48:47 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney


thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
 >>     This is because either side has no business with each other :) :)

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
 >    Even as sarcasm this is still a ludicrous statement.

Yes, and no.  The volume of traffic on manga-related discussion will, by
and large, find itself anywhere except rec.arts.comics (even rec.games.
video.arcade and soc.culture.australian has seen it).  On the other hand,
manga that has been specially reworked and explicitly presented in a
"comic" format, like AKIRA, will get discussed there.  I've had no
problem with such crossposts, and nor should there be.   (But interestingly,
discussion about the original manga has emerged on rec.arts.anime, or
even alt.cult-movies, but not rec.arts.comics.)

 >    Actually, this might be a good time. If during the summer months
 >manga discussions dominate r.a.c the it lends more evidence in favor of
 >a mainstream manga group.

Not really. At the moment, the net.manga community is spending most of
their free time trying to convince news.groups that they actually know
enough about manga (and comics, and japan, and... ) to know where it
belongs in the Usenet hierarchy.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: gt6525c@prism.gatech.EDU (gt6525c GALLATY,DAMON JAKOB)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Split of rec.games.mud
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:29:23 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Like many other people, I've noticed general patterns forming from this
discussion. I haven't seen many people against splitting, so I'm assuming
this means that most everyone favors a split, but isn't decided on how
to split the group. Therefore, it seems we need to decide on each split
by coming up with a name, and more importantly, the topic. From what I've
been reading, the topics called for generally fall into the catagories
below:

Announcements for new muds, moving muds, and other announcements. I think
it's generally agreed upon to call this one rec.games.mud.announce and
have it moderated. This should DEFINITELY be voted on separately.

General adventure-type discussions. This is just stuff like proposals for
new hack-and-slash systems, etc. I think it would be best to let all
adventure-based discussions here, i.e. LP as well as Diku and Aber. Not
code discussions and such, though. Rec.games.mud.adventure sounds like
the best option.

Code discussions. This is where the LP and Diku split would come in handy.
Rec.games.mud.lp and rec.games.mud.diku would probably separate the
discussions nicely.

MUCK, MUSE, MUSH, etc. related discussions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
there aren't really many posts dealing with these types, so a group
rec.games.mud.tiny could catch it all without much problem. Anything from
code discussion to game-specific info could go here, since, as I said, not
much is posted from these groups anyway.

Social stuff, i.e. mudding ages, morality on muds, anything else of general
interest to mudders of all types. Keeping rec.games.mud for this purpose
would seem to be the best idea. If a rec.games.mud.social was created, then
what would be the purpose of rec.games.mud, if any? This last category
catches the left-overs, so to speak.


Now, the actual names are somewhat important, but not as important as
simply having a group to support these topics. My suggestion would be
to decide on the names through discussion, then have separate votes for
each of the possible topical splits. The ones that get the vote are made
into groups, and the ones that don't will probably get thrown into
rec.games.mud, which is another reason why the original group should be
kept, as a catch-all for anything that isn't specifically supported by
another group.

So, what do you think?

-- 
"Have you ever danced with the Devil by the pale moonlight?
 I ask that of all my prey. I just like the sound of it..."  - the Joker
************************************************************************
Damon Gallaty                                E-mail: dgal@cad.gatech.edu
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:39:34 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
 >All anyone is asking is that you follow the bloody conventions, if

We are.  Manga is a recreational art which doesn't belong under *.comics.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:03:23 GMT

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:
>
>> For a fact, manga is *not* a sub-set of comics. 
>Oh, that's a new one on me.  Since when are manga not comic books?

Oops. I can see how you read my statement.  The point I've been trying
to get across is that rec.arts.comics.manga is as (in)appropriate as
rec.arts.manga.comics.  A new (international) subscriber would simply 
expect to see comics on a level as high as manga.

>Nothing in the name "rec.arts.comics.manga" implies that manga are somehow
>"derivative" of American comic-books.  It simply recognizes that they're
>two different versions of the same thing.  

I disagree.  There is an implication.  The implication is either that
manga is a subset of comics, or that manga is derived from comics.  

>                                            ... [The name for] a new
>trumpet newgroup in a hierarchy where soc.music.horns already existed
>should be soc.music.horns.trumpet. 

Good.  Exactly my point.  The implication is that trumpets are either a
subset of horns, or that trumpets are derivative of horns.  One would
expect to see saxophones and trumpets at *the same level.*

>We have a classification system here.  We really ought to *use* it.

I agree whole-heartedly.  rec.arts.comics.manga would be a misuse of the
intent of the naming convention.

Please understand.  I *do* understand your argument.  I *like* hierarchies.
I agree with the trumpet example.  It just happens to be inappropriate.
It is my *honest* (and as objective as I can get) opinion that the couplets
of [rec.arts.comics and rec.arts.manga], or [rec.arts.comics.us and
rec.arts.comics.manga] are the appropriate names.

--David
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Blume            | It's a high gravity day.                 |
| dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com |                                          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.arts.dragonlance
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 11:20:56 GMT

In article <> jka@math.ufl.edu (Jon K. Akers) writes:
>Since this point came up, why not have it as rec.arts.sf.games or
>something similar? I don't think that there are enough people out
>there to support a dragon-lance specific group, but how about a group
>that entails all science fiction/fantasy games? I guess another name
>for this might be rec.games.sci-fi or something like that. What do you
>think? 

<double check> Nope, the post didn't occur on April 1...
<triple check> Nope.  Doesn't even look like a forgery.

Try rec.games.frp?  Contrary to the connotation of "frp", it does
indeed cover all fantasy and science-fiction (et al) role-playing
games.  The "fantasy" refers to "not real life".

There's an ongoing discussion on this very newsgroup (news.groups)
about splitting it into a bunch of little groups...

And, yes, I am sorry (?) to say, there is VERY little traffic on there
about Dragonlance.  I guess people just appreciate Kenders like they do
N*zi H*ll Sm**fs, Ewoks, and the Ferengi: 2 hours at 325 degrees F...

-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:04:21 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
> >This would remove the vague 'rec.arts.comics' infavor of the more common
> >.misc and would place your precious 'manga' on the same level as the evil
> >western comics you dislike so much.

>Beg pardon?  None of the proponents of rec.arts.manga has denigrated comics
>in any way.  While it's true that there is little overlap in readership,
>we're only pointing out that the media are -different-, and warrant separate
>treatment in the namespace.

    That's funny. I've read both and they certainly seem to be the same
type of media. They might reach different audiences, but the media is
basically identical.

>I anticipate that rec.arts.comics readers (and sci.lang.japan readers,
>and rec.arts.anime readers, and soc.culture.* readers, et al) would get a
>lot out of rec.arts.manga,  and would do well to vote for its creation.

    Are you saying that they would get less out of r.a.c.manga?



--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:04:58 GMT
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
 >		 ________________________________________
 >		|                                        |
 >		|       ARTS                             |
 >		|   ________________  ________________   |
 >		|  |                \/                |  |
 >		|  |                /\                |  |
 >		|  |     COMICS    ( \)  MANGA        |  |
 >		|  |                \/\               |  |
 >		|  |________________/\_\______________|  |
 >		|_______________________\________________|
 >		                         \
 >					ART THAT DRAWS FROM
 >					BOTH TRADITIONS

Looks good to me!



--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Another problem with rec.arts.comics.{manga/japan}
Date: 10 Apr 1992 18:44:43 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <axolotl.702885083@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>With rec.arts.comics.manga or no mainstream manga group, it would be either
>rec.arts.comics.manga.strips or rec.arts.comics.strips.manga.  THAT'S
>an ugly namespace.

No, that's a properly organized namespace.
(rec.arts.comics.manga WOULD BE a mainstream manga group.)
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
         "Grow up children. Purchase lives." -- Geoff Collyer
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:25:04 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr10.113143.6280@newcastle.ac.uk> 
 unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (D J Nettleton) writes:
>   Yep I would be very interested in such a newsgroup.  At the
>moment I have had to subscribe to many newsgroups since the area
>of image processing is not covered in any particular group.  


Please consider reading the "List of Active Newsgroups" in
news.announce.newusers before you attempt to reinvent the wheel:

comp.graphics           Computer graphics, art, animation, image processing.


--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu