HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Subject: Re: MudOS a ripoff?
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 03:31:13 GMT

garnett@gestalt.austin.tx.us (John Garnett) writes:

>In article <geoff.714882644@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au> geoff@cs.monash.edu.au (Geoff Wong) writes:
...
>Regarding the malloc wrappers, sure they aren't any big deal but they do
>allow machines like the NeXT and RS/6000 to more closely monitor
>memory usage (since these machines can't use the smalloc.c file from
>3.1.2 because smalloc.c redefines system calls like malloc(),
>free(), etc which cannot (easily if at all) be redefined on the
>NeXT, RS/6000 and probably other machines as well).

It's much more useful to adapt smalloc.c . I have it running fine on the
atari st/tt , which has no sbrk() call under tos...
Recursive data structures will sooner or later make a garbage collector
indispensable, and doing this without your own memory allocator would be
pretty unefficient. Moreover, there are some shortcuts you can take in
stralloc.c and string indexing when you use smalloc . Can transform some
algorithm time complexities from O(n*n) to O(n) .

	Amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: oakley@contra.enet.dec.com (The Zeeker)
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Organisation: Treadstone Seventy-One
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:48:45 GMT


In article <1992Aug27.100157.140@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, craig@ec.uwa.oz.au (Craig Richmond - division) writes...

	Err, I participate/develop code for local muds that noone outside
	of Digital Equip. Corp. can get to & vice-versa. :-(

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to you by Treadstone Seventy-One Corporation.
--- --- --- | /  "Come not between the dragon and his wroth!"
 /  |-  |-  |    		- Lear, King of England
--- --- --- | \
_________________________________________________________________
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:47:34 GMT
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg

rdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Roger B. Dubbs III) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.162541.12996@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ak853@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Blade) writes:

>=>finger lars
>Lars is a Lars human wizard, presenting himself as:
>Master Lars Pensj|, male human (neutral).
>He is level 50 (Keeper).
>He was set to this level by Mrpr.
>He is a member of the domain Wiz with the lord Wiz.
>He was added to this domain by Mrpr.
>Last login: 5 day 11 hours 6 minutes 35 seconds ago from
>kajsa0.etek.chalmers.se
>Age: 5 hours 17 minutes 42 seconds.
>Email: lars@cd.chalmers.se
>--------- Special Genesis info on: Lars
>He is the founder of the game (what did you think LP in lpmud meant?).
>He is responsible for the gamedriver.

I think the last line is hilariously outdated, when applyed to the recent
versions to the CD driver. Back at the time of the 3.0.46 release, Lars
mentioned that genesis had some problems with keeping administrative data,
which might be handled using the switch statement. Now there were actually
some large arrays in the master, but to use switch in this place would have
meant to modify, update and reload the master any time the data changes,
which would have been somewhat unhandy.
I then proposed a set of new efuns to manage multi-valued entities with
an interface resembling lisp's alist, but with faster lookup by use of sorted
lists and binary search.
Lars expressed his consent, but saied that he didn't want new types. Then,
when 3.0.47 was released, the genesis driver staff had nothing more urgent
to do than remove all alist functions, and introduce the type mapping as a
new basic type.

	Amylaar
From: stig@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig Hemmer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Please stop this flame war.
Date: 29 Aug 92 10:37:35 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Anarchy

Now that everybody has proved their immaturity, perhaps we could get
back to more interesting subjects.

Like, how to implement a hangnail in LPC.

Stig 'Tortoise' Hemmer   aka   stig@lise.unit.no
.no means Norway, a minor kingdom in northern Europe.
Our whalers sail circles around Greenpeace. Yeah!
This is NOT a .signature virus. Do NOT copy it into your .signature

PS: I have set follow up to poster, i.e. me.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: urimud@netcom.com (James M. McKenzie)
Subject: Re: MUD Standardization Perspective
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 17:56:37 GMT
Organization: UriMud Development Group

mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
: demon@sequent.com (Dave Richards) writes:
: 
: >The key question in my mind is "when should we standardize".  The obvious
: >follow-up might be "What should we standardize".  I'd personally let these
: >questions sit on the backburner for a bit.
: 
: Well, "Why should we standardise"?
: 

 I think Standardization will be helpfull in the future, but to be honest I
think the most important aspect people need to start paying attention to is
the quality of there work.

 If those so inclined to write code, weather in the parser or in the mudlib
took the time to make sure the code was DEBUGGED the world would be a much 
nicer place, and people would spend more time making new things instead of
trying to fix everyone elses mistakes.

   Man-ing.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Subject: Re: Virtual Rooms and Objects (was: Re: MudOS a ripoff?)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:27:41 GMT

uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu (Erik Kleinfelder) writes:

>     Very much, but now you got me wanting to develop ODLs with you.  One last
>thing, aren't we moving from LP to the MUSH type idea where objects are just
>stored variables(Granted they are saved, but you get the idea)???

Aren't all muds like this?  Aren't most rooms just colections of
variables?  On most muds every room doesnt do something spectacular so
in fact most rooms/objects are or could be like MUSH objects.  What is
wrong with that?

David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
From: uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu (Erik Kleinfelder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:56:51 GMT
	<KJETILHO.92Aug24221057@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no>
	<37200@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
	<KJETILHO.92Aug25022805@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no>
Organization: Drexel University


Kjetil>     [someone else struts (Gunther?)]
    >Average of 88% heartbeat completion,

Kjetil>     88%????  Why so miserably low?  Anything less than 99% should be considered
Kjetil>     dismal.  Am I missing something?

     Well, we do stick at 100% on weekends and mostly at night, but this is
a workstation that student and faculty can use at will and go and run
OpenWindows and suck the mere 8 Megs of RAM on the workstation.  It also
doesn't help when a faculty member decides he wants to run a CPU intensive
process on a remote machine so it doesn't get in the way, but he picks the
workstation the mud runs on.(Imagine, thinking a faculty project is more
important then a MUD *grin*)

Kjetil> I must say I was surprised myself. I would not be satisifed with
Kjetil> anything less than 100% :)

     I tend to hate anything less then 100%, but when faculty suck up CPU,
you kinda grin and bear it.  The mud is barely considered a student project,
so we don't want to push it to much.

Kjetil> Kjetil T.

Erik (Gunther God@Dragon's Den -- 129.25.7.111 2222)
From: jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: re: sub-objects and MudOS virtual objects
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:57:38 GMT

genlpc@pip.shsu.edu (Blackthorne) writes:
>mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
>>
>> There are a couple of things to worry about here - only cloned
>> subobjects should actually be copied into the player savefile,
>> while the rest are stored simply with names; when restoring a
>> savefile, there are problems when errors occur loading some of
>> the subobjects, etc, and, of course, you need to worry about
>> mutually recursive object references (our hack was to only allow
>> one level of nesting, and expect the saver to produce a flattened
>> contents list; it could be done properly by adding labels to
>> savefile elements, but... :)
>
>What did you do about the call_out's and heart_beat's in the objects
>that were saved?  Admittedly, it may not be a problem....depending on
>how complex the items on your mud are.  But it does prevent the
>reloaded state from being a facsimile of the state before shutdown.

Even worse, how do you handle object pointers to things that haven't
logged back in yet?  Or another problem, you say only cloned objects
can be saved, so you have a pointer to /std/sword#345, but when you
come back it's gonna be /std/sword#22 or somesuch confusion.  Possibly
if you logged all the players back in, but linkdead, and you had some
way of stamping objects, but then you're getting dangerously close to
recreating the conditions that probably caused the crash in the first
place.

This is a useful thing, as far as it goes, but I think that comparing
it to the MudOS virtual objects is a big stretch.  Not that I'm saying
one is better than the other, but it would be like comparing goats to
horses.  I can always ride a goat if I work at it hard enough, but
I'd much prefer to let the goat trim my lawn and ride the horse.

Sulam, who is feeling particularly pastoral tonight.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Hack'n'slash not for me
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 21:40:14 GMT

In article <ANIPA.92Aug24001450@sotka.cs.tut.fi> anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

>Yes, all lpmuds that I have so far seen seem to think that races are
>cosmetic. It's a pity. I have been attempting to make each race
>different, but it's really hard to invent a lot of features to every
>normal player race (suggestions by email are welcome, no feelings
>please as they are just cosmetic).
>
Well, there's a design tradeoff here. If you make races only cosmetically
different, then they don't have much effect. If you make them different in
some substantial way, then you feel compelled to explain to the player what
the differences are (or you should feel that!) and then you end up with
character creations taking a while as new players learn what the different
races are and try to make an intelligent choice.

Having races be only cosmetically different is little better than not having
races, but it doesn't introduce any problems per se. We've already had the
flame war over Genesis' character system which I would prefer not to add to.
<shrug> Pick your favorite. My favorite is not to have races at all.
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
From: jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: mappings and bugfixes
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:12:50 GMT

djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>>One of my
>>favorite features in MudOS is the system of mappings, to duplicate this in
>>3.1.2 requires you to use two arrays, and even this doesn't come close to the
>>effect of a mapping.

>Aren't mappings just the same thing as associative arrays with a better
>syntax?  (and aren't there two incompatible versions of mappings? :-)
>Ie, assoc(), insert_alist(), etc.  Why would anyone want to do the
>two-array method?  yeesh

Yes, the MudOS mappings are 'incompatible' with other versions out there.
A lot of the code is based on Larry Wall's assoc arrays in perl, and
the function names reflect that.  A little simul_efun never hurt
anyone, though.

>The simplified syntax has the drawback that some people may think
>that they're very inexpensive to use when they're not.

Well, they aren't expensive either.  At least they aren't any more
expensive than two arrays.  :)

>And again, if 3.1.2 is so HORRIBLY buggy as everyone says, why the
>hell is everyone hiding the bug fixes???

No one is hiding the MudOS bug fixes.  They are available from
ucbvax.berkeley.edu, and port 5554 of whatever machine TMI is
on (currently pv7b88.vincent.iastate.edu).  

Sulam
From: uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu (Erik Kleinfelder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:21:35 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

>>>>> On 25 Aug 92 04:11:24 GMT, geoff@cs.monash.edu.au (Geoff Wong) said:

Geoff> Why? Why do we want one driver? Most people who modify the driver
Geoff> have very little knowledge of language design and have NO idea about
Geoff> good type systems, orthoganality etc. We certainly don't want them
Geoff> polluting what we do :-).

     *smirk* Ok, then do what TMI did, get a team together at a cite
dedicated to driver development.  There people can add their mods and doc
them accordingly.  A well structured environment such as this could benefit
all mudders in the long run to a well made advanced driver.

Geoff> If you want to do something new and better then eventually you need
Geoff> to get rid of the old (non-functional :-) stuff. Anyway a script can
Geoff> usually update 75% of the old stuff into a working state,
Geoff> if the modification is not too great.

     3.1.2 was supposed to do that.  But why get rid of the ideas and workings
of 3.1.2 when it has not even been around for a year yet.  This is reminding
me of some of apple's system upgrades.  One week 6.0.4 is out, then 6.0.5 is
out and so on.  What in 3.1.2 is non-functional?

Geoff> Why would anyone want to give out their modifications? Hmm? We did a lot
Geoff> of modifications here - basically other people ripped them off
Geoff> and claimed that they'd done them or simply failed to credit the person
Geoff> who had done them. So we just can't be bothered any more. Too many juveniles
Geoff> with no idea.

     This is easily fixed with a well structured environment to develop the
driver in.

Geoff> Life is tough - too many to choose from. Better write your own version
Geoff> then you'll know which one is the best *:-).
Geoff> I'll re-iterate an argument that I made at least a year ago:
Geoff> A broad variety and diversity of muds and mudlibs only shows the
Geoff> strength of mudding - I can only approve. New and good ideas
Geoff> aren't developed in sterile environments where we're all imitating
Geoff> each other.

     Ok, fine.  But when is a MudOS mudlib still an LPmud, or isn't it.  Can
it really be claimed that this mudlib which only works with MudOS is an
LP mudlib or this one that only works with CD.  I do not want anyone to
ask ANSI to make a standard for LPC, but it would be nice to have a standard,
like 2.4.5 once was.  Everyone has these great ideas, but no one is willing
to go for giving them and their code out.  I mean should we benefit the
mudding community or benifit ourselves and not get known for the great work
that was done here and there.

Erik (Gunther God@Dragon's Den -- 129.25.7.111 2222)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: msforbe@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL SCOTT FORBES)
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Originator: msforbe@c00059-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: msforbe@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL SCOTT FORBES)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:11:00 GMT


In article <TRSNYDER.92Sep1123602@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu>, trsnyder@mcs.Drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
Path: taco!gatech!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.noc.drexel.edu!netnews.noc.drexel.edu!trsnyder
 From: trsnyder@mcs.Drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
 Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
 Subject: Re: Driver additions
 Message-ID: <TRSNYDER.92Sep1123602@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu>
 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 13:36:02 GMT+5:00
 References: <UEKLEINF.92Aug25152135@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu> <R1h-h##@engin.umich.edu>
 	<1992Aug26.005902.829@engage.pko.dec.com>
 	<17h567INNs0r@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
 	<UEKLEINF.92Aug27174119@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu>
 Sender: news@netnews.noc.drexel.edu
 Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs, Moorestown, NJ
 Lines: 21
 In-Reply-To: uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu's message of Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:41:19 GMT
 
 >>>>> In article <UEKLEINF.92Aug27174119@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu>,
 >>>>> uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu (Erik Kleinfelder) writes:
 
 Adam> I'm also not telling when I'm releasing it
 Adam> because then I'll kick back until right before then, and either release
 Adam> a *terrible* hack or have to apologize for it taking extra time (hi 
 Adam> Fordan and Gunther! ;-)
 
 Erik>      *smirk* I swear it will be released soon, just let me add
 Erik> this feature.  *grin* *kick buddha* *smile*
 
 Erik> Erik (Gunther God@Dragon's Den -- 129.25.7.111 2222)
  
Erik> P.S.
 
Erik>      I am sorry, but *IT* will be released soon. *wave buddha*
 
Fordan> Sure it will.  :-)  Actually, it should be 
Fordan> coming out quite shortly, as we
Fordan> have been officially open to players for about 
Fordan> a month, and we know where the final big bugs lie.  
Fordan> Bouncing levels, anyone? :-)
 
Fordan> Fordan, god, Dragon's Den LPmud (129.25.7.111 2222)
 

  Hell, I don't know what to say now. I think this is kinda funny.
Yea, the mudlib will be coming out shortly. Now, if Erik can just 
make it through exams. *grin* We wouldn't want him to fail everything
because of coding mudlib and have to go home because he was kicked out
of Drexel, leaving the mud to our famous Beer drinker Kelly, and
the the greatest idler in the history of mud, Fordan. *grin*

Just thought I'd throw my 1/2 cent worth in.

Scooter, Senior Wizard@Dragon's Den.

*************
* IMPORTANT *
*************

  There will be no idle god worshiping. *giggle*


--------------------------
For whom the bell tolls
It tolls for thee.
--------------------------
From: beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Shattered Worlds source?
Summary: could I get it?
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:05:03 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu



All flames aside, would it perchance be possible to get a copy of the 
Shattered Worlds driver and a basic mudlib that will run with it?

It might be a nice alternative for a lot of people.
Why hide your work, if doing so isn't rewarding?

-Adam

-- 
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
#define NAME	"Adam Beeman"
#define EMAIL	"beeman@{cats, ucscb}.ucsc.edu"
inherit SIGNATURE; // enhanced .sig virus
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Subject: BatMUD is cleaning disks
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:25:33 GMT


All old wizards are recommended to get any code they wish to keep from
BatMUD. I will be cleaning all unopen castles/directories from wizards
that have not visited BatMUD during the last 6 months. 

This cleanup will happen around 15th of September.

++Anipa
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: daltonr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Warlock)
Subject: RealmsMud still needs a site!!!
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:35:57 GMT

     I am still looking for a site to set up the old but popular mud
RealmsMud at. If anyone knows of or has a site that I could set up at
please let me know. Also old Realms Wizard, please mail me at 
daltonr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Grev
-- 
Carry on my Wayward Son. There will be peace when you are done...
-Kansas
daltonr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: joseffg@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Joseph Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: SW Quests?
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:41:44 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett) writes:

>guile@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth K Lee) writes:


>>SOLUTIONS TO SHATTERED WORLD QUESTS


>Congratulations, you win the stupidest person on the usenet award.
>As well as the award for the most dirty trick so far played in this
>newsgroup.  Up till this point it has been pretty nasty sure, but my not
>friend, you just won.

Naw, this has already been done.  Remember Akropolis? (or however you spell
it:))

-- 
         joseffg@matt.ksu.ksu.edu || joseffg@ksuvm.ksu.edu
From: jlw@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Subobjects
Date: 29 Aug 92 03:08:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: hebrew.9208290308.AA05438

mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
>jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop) writes:
>>You're implying that this isn't happening.  Have you ever talked to me
>>about the MudOS driver, or TMI in general?
>
>Well, *I* have.  You knew fuck all about it, since Buddha did
>most of the interesting bits (you hadn't even *read* it!
>Jesus, and you want people to *listen* to you?).

I talked to you about Buddha losing all the files when he went on his
rampage at the end of May.  In fact NO ONE at TMI during that time
*except* Buddha knew where most of the bin commands, log files, and
include files were hidden.  I don't feel like going into the circumstances
surrounding the situation, but suffice it to say that I got very frustrated
trying to debug the finger command one afternoon, and logged into LPSwat
to relax, at which point we struck up our conversation.

I'd appreciate it if you'd confine your remarks to things about which
you have a clear memory.

As far as Buddha having done most of the interesting parts, you'll have
to define interesting.  I do not plan on trying to convince you, or anyone
else, that my contributions to TMI have been either more or less than
Buddha's.

Sulam
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: daltonr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Warlock)
Subject: RealmsMud
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:54:36 GMT

RealmsMud is still looking for a site to run on. If you have a site,
or any info leading to a site, please let me know. Also, I'm still
wanting to hear from old wizards from Realms. 

Grev

ps: I may need a couple of good coders if Realms gets back on-line.
-- 
Carry on my Wayward Son. There will be peace when you are done...
-Kansas
daltonr@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: diane@mik.uky.edu (diane lynn benham)
Subject: Re: Player-killing muds
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:35:09 GMT

In article <#Km-gt_@engin.umich.edu> monan@engin.umich.edu (Michael  
Patrick Monan) writes:
> 
> 	Please send it to me too..or post it here...anbtw what is the 
> address to Genocide? :)
> 				CYA!!! 
> 				Mike...
> 
> <30 line .sig deleted>

This must be your first posting or something, but PLEASE shorten the  
damned .sig...it was 26+ lines longer than your post.

-diane