HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, Andy's lack of it.
Keywords: Just go punch him out, JJ.
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:16:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23472
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <16p08fINNocr@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:

>No, because he is afraid the people he will meet in the future will 
>believe the lies coming out of miserable neo-communist mealy-mouths 
>like you.
Nick, if this is how you're fighting, please let me defend myself,
without your help.  I don't see any "neo-communist" attitudes in
Andy Shaw's words, at least not directly, all I see is lots of
undirected and misdirected anger against people who won't
accept his particular view of the world.

I don't see any reason to re-start this flame war, either.

And this is unacceptable, period:
>(some words deleted to the effect I should do this)
>Andy Shaw should be held personally accountable for his lies--with a 
>good beating. A baseball bat or hammer to the forehead can do wonders 
>to clear up his thinking. It's also harder to tell lies when one's 
>nose and jaw are broken.

NO!

This is completely unacceptable in any society.   I will NOT allow
anyone to even suggest that I intend to permit anyone to suggest
violence, on my behalf or on someone else's.    I can't stop
you from saying it, but I can certainly accuse you of using
terror tactics to silence a minority when you say it.

Nick, if you really wrote this, please reconsider what you've
said.  This is over any line I've ever seen drawn, and it's so
far over my line of "acceptable behavior" that I'm not
entirely sure how to cope with it.   I'm NOT about to
head to Boston with a baseball bat and Andy Shaw's address,
and if I get the sense that anyone else is, I'll call the
cops.  It's that simple.

VIOLENCE IS UNACCEPTABLE OTHER THAN IN SELF DEFENSE. PERIOD!

Not only is it illegal, it's socially and ethically unacceptable.
Any of those reasons should suffice.

If this was to point out to Shaw why I might not want my name over
the network, you've probably made your point, but not in any
way I can accept.

NO!  
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, JJ's lack of it.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 12:04:36 GMT

Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu> writes:
>But, IMHO, I think this jj *is* signing his name.  Does anybody remember those
>days of the first home computers (mine was that *powerful* TI 99/4a with a
>whopping 16K of memory).  BBS's (a "lesser" form of Usenet) started to pop up
>everywhere.  Many people using those BBS's went by what were called "handles"
>(not those stupid "pointers to pointers").

Obviously a former Mac programmer. :-)

>They always used them as if they were their name.  In fact, at those user
>group meetings (yes, I _used_ to go to them), many people still went by
>their handles when they were face to face.  It was because they wanted to
>be known by their handles.  In effect, for all pratical purposes, to others,
>their handles WERE their names.

I think you're missing Andy's point, though.  Anybody reading Andy's articles
knows who wrote them.  If they wanted to, they could look up his phone number
and home address.  Or they might remember his USENET articles while reading
one of his papers, or while interviewing him for a job.  The same isn't true
of jj@alice, because jj isn't his *real* name.

(That said, I don't think it's reasonable to associate jj@alice with the KKK.
:-)  If I really wanted to, I could find out who he was, e.g. by looking up
alice in the UUCP maps and calling the system administrator or neighboring
sites.  I don't think jj's done anything worthy of comparison with
cross-burning.  He just doesn't seem to understand where people like Andy
and James Pak are coming from.)

>Michael F. Kamprath

P. S.  I seem to recall a jj, at cup.portal.com, who asked everyone to
send him $1 so he could go to college.  That wasn't you, was it, jj?  :-)

--
Russil Wvong
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
People will always choose the familiar over the comfortable -- Virginia Satir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Date: 23 Aug 92 05:11:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

yongwee@leland.Stanford.EDU (Yong Wee Dennis Lee) writes:
|>I think Mr Joe, being such a prolific and intelligent writer, can understand
|>that the language he is using serves only to irritate and infume readers.  It
|>only succeeds in giving readers a negative bias to what he writes, and 
|>distracts all netters from his main points.  Of course I do not rule out the
|>possiblity that he main purpose is to irritate and infume readers, rather than
|>carrying on a purposeful discussion.

That peason's only purpose is to convince others(so himself) that he is 
NOT Chinese but American, that's because he awares (maybe uncounciously) 
that he IS different from the Whites (which have better image than 
Chinese) and he cannot accept it.

He must have failed a lot, who is responsible for that, surely not
himself, parents, culture. 

Also his offensive attitude makes him feel tough, that's what he needs, 
because he feel something is wrong and he is in danger. 

He also repeatedly states that Asian women's outmarriage is because of
Chinese culture, maybe he has touble to get a date, I guese no girl will
like such an offensive peason, (I'm sure in his imaginary romantic fantacy 
he is very tender!).    

In his uncounsious mind, he is saying:
I am not good--> I am good, but the enviroment is not good(parents are
                   Chinese cultured), I overcome all the problems. 
                   (How great I am).
I am not 100% American (or I am different from those "good" people)      
	     --> I am not differnt from them, only those Chinse people think 
		   I am (Chinses and) different from them. 
I am not good--> I myself am good, my link with Chinese is not good. I
		   have no link with them. 

The peason's post itself is totally illogic and makes no sense at all, 
you can never find any point in his post, I can only see his
frustration.  His post generally gets no respose at all in 
soc.culture.china (you can test this if you don't believe), 
I feel so sorry for this poor guy. I guess most netters in soc.culture.china 
think of him as being psychopathic. It's really strange to see so many people 
fight with him in this newsgroup.

Ze Yang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: as229@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nana Tzeng)
Subject: hmm..
Reply-To: as229@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nana Tzeng)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 05:52:51 GMT


Hello.. I'm just testing so you can ignore this :)
-- 
 ***************************************************************
*	Nana			AS229@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU     *
*	 Tzeng			00N0TZENG@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU     *
 ***************************************************************
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian American speakers at the Repub Convention
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:34:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The RAND Corporation

In article <1992Aug19.071903.28926@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (I'm a C-SPAN junkie :-) ) writes:
>On C-SPAN's coverage of the Republican convention last night (Tues), I saw
>two Asian American Republicans give short speeches.
>
>The first AA speaker was Matt Fong from the California State Board of
>Equalization.  He is also a former Air Force Lieutenant and pilot.

One thing that folks outside of the Golden State [where is that gold when
we need it?] might not know is that Matt Fong's mother, March Fong Eu,
has been Secretary of State here for almost two decades.

And she's a Democrat, for what it's worth.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Vietnamese or Vietnamese Am? Re: College Dating Question and more...
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:13:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.103231.6299@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.204758.4856@u.washington.edu> maxim@milton.u.washington.edu (John Martin) writes:
>>
>>Some of my Vietnamese friends tell me that the guys in the Vietnamese
>>families are discouraged from having girlfriends until they have
>>completed their college education, whereas the vietnamese daughters,
>>while not encouraged to have boyfriends, are not discouraged.  
>> Is this true? And if so is it practiced in other asian cultures?
>>
>
>Hmm... Reminds me of my Dad saying that, back in the '50s, when
>he first came to the US, the goals for the foreign students back
>then was to get a PhD, get permanent resident status, and then
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>get married.  In that order.
>
>Of course, given the circumstances of the time, that was probably
>a useful survival strategy.  Some of that vestigial immigrant-survival
>instinct probably gets carried over onto the kids.
>
	Most Vietnamese immigrants do not have to worry about getting
permanent residency status.  They usually get it (PR status) after 2
years of staying in the US.  So the "immigrant-survival instinct" is
definitely different from that of other early non-Vietnamese immigrants.

>On the other hand, this is soc.culture.asian.*american*, so these
>issues probably aren't particularly relevant here.
>
>					--Alan Hu
>>-john
>
	On the other hand, this is soc.culture.*asian*.american, so if
John were to use Vietnamese American instead of just Vietnamese in his
post, wouldnt these dating issues be somewhat revalent here?  Are
Vietnamese Am in general not considered to be AA?  If so then what is an
AA?  I have observed people using the terms Chinese Am, Japanese Am, and
Korean Am, etc. but have rarely seen the term Vietnamese American used.
(BTW Dwight Joe is the only person so far that uses the term Vietnamese
Am in a post about laly thao being female).  Anyway is there a PC way to 
address our Vietnamese friends? 

-Dan
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Call For New FAQ
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:50:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Aug14.143041.28106@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

Actually, I think all these scenes <many subsequently deleted> apply to 
women of any race dropping the "Let's get together" hint.

>
>Scene 2:
>
> 1)  The more athletic interested AAF will frequently suggest
> tennis matches.  Unless you're a real Michael Chang, you
> can be sure she isn't asking you to play tennis to improve
> her game.  
>

Or, an interested ??F might claim she wants to see a particular
movie (or concert or play or some other cultural event), but add
"I don't have anyone to go with".

Your action is your business.

Which leads me to one question:
  She hints (with all the subtlety of a flying brick) that she
  wants to go and do something?
  Then, the male asks.  And, invariably, the woman responds with
  surprise as if she never thought of you asking her.  Now why 
  does she do that?  

>
>Scene 6:
> 
>  1)  The new-age AAF will introduce herself and her spiritual
>  channel, saying "Shirley thinks that your aura is resonating
>  with mine."  
>  2)  Definitely run for the hills.
>

Yeah, but get her to give you a Tarot reading first.


John D.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.motss
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:17:34 GMT

In article <64177@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>gay Asians in the country (think about it - where are all the
>Asians who are Americanized enough to be gay? They're not in SF, they
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>probably went to engineering school like all good Asian-Am boys, and
>work in Silicon Valley!) 
>

You are what you are.  You dont need to be AMERICANIZED engouh to be
what you are.  Come on Arthur, you make it sounds like homosexuality is an
American thing.  I am sure gay asians exist.

How would you feel if I say I am not ASIANIZED enough to go to
engineering school and work in Silicon Valley?
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:04:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.010803.20829@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>But some dorks whine for the sake of whining.  Those dorks should
>accept life for what it is; life is _not_ fair.  Whining is pointless.
Well, YOU whine quite a bit too you know. 
Seriously, have you reread your own posts. MOST of the time
all I see you post in other newgroups, is about how unfair
life is, and there NOTHING you can do about it. I'd call
that whining.

I am not trying to call you a whiner, but THINK about it.
What is saying "LIFE IS UNFAIR, AND ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE"
going to do? Do something. anything, things maybe unfair
but it could be less-unfair. Why dont you try THAT rather
then making things unfair for everyone else.
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:29:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23474
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

Can we take this thread that's trying to decide what Caucasians are
and put it into some newsgroup where people who care might
read it?

Me?  I'm a Celt.

Same goes for any discussions on "who is an X" for any "X".
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Subject: Re: One does not a people make (was: Re: Keeping in mind ....)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:36:19 GMT

In article <BsuJL5.Mo1@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
>After running a Dwight Joe post through the noise filter
>here's what I get.
>
>In article <1992Aug11.205624.434@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>.
>
>Hmm, well I should have expected that.


Interesting ... but did you try playing it backwards at an extra slow speed,
then filter out the noise? Rumour (Canadian spelling, eh?) has it
that if you do that with some original copies of his posts, you can
hear a prayer to Satan.

-leon.
From: frank@owlnet.rice.edu (Frank T. Kang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:57:10 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Aug13.160545.20055@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  Well I think it's about time we AAFs did a little whining of our own.
>  I mean that some of us have been asked out by guys of every race
>  except for AsAm men.  Through recent e-mail correspondence and
>  memories of my friends growing up, I've come to the conclusion that some
>  AsAm men don't really want to go out with AsAm women.  

It's true.  Some of my AAM friends are like that.  When one of my
friends first started going out with a Vietnamese girl, he was
embarassed to admit it to me.  I found that a bit surprising.

>  I've known of several AsAm females who tried to ask out AsAm men
>  and scared them away.  And they were not ugly or doggy or fat.
>  In fact they all have white men running after them.  I know of
>  a zero success rate for AsAm women asking out AsAm men.

Ok, I admit it.  I'm guilty - it's happened to me once.  I wasn't
interested in going out with her, so I declined.  If she was 
someone I wanted to go out with -  no matter what cultural
background - I undoubtedly would have said yes.  I admit, some
AAMs have some bias, but I'm surprised that you've seen such
a low success rate.

>  I know of 100% success rate for White women who asked out AsAm
>  men.  One of my best friends (blonde-blue-eyed) said she saw
>  an interesting prospect in the med library, and walked up and
>  asked him out.  He was completely cowed and the rest is history.

Add me to your statistics and make it 99%.  I find it hard
to believe that every AAM would accept a date from every
AF.  I dunno, maybe all your friends happen to be Godesses. :-)

>  worked for her.  So face it, you guys are easy pickings for
>  White women.  Now all we need is for them to write it up in
>  Cosmopolitan, Mademoiselle, and Glamour to let in the rest of
>  the white women in on this secret that a few of my friends have
>  already discovered and you'll hear no more whining about AF/CM dating.

Whatever you do DON'T tell anyone about our secret.  I wouldn't
want the word to get out and be besieged by a horde of women -
that would be awful! :-)

Clare, although I agree with you, I don't think the bias is as
pronounced as your experiences may suggest.

Frank
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: friednships....
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:29:38 GMT

=================================
 moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Once you start excluding people - for whatever reason - you start
>shutting yourself into smaller and smaller boxes...until finally
>you're crammed into something about 5x5.  Doubt you'd have much room
>left for friends.
>

 This leads us to the questions: 
	friendship for what?
  	what is friendship?

 We are convinced, aren't we, that nationality, religion, feeding passions
 etc. etc. are not the stuff friendship is made of.
 Then, what is friendship dear Amirthi? :)

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu

ps: whats in those two cups on your table? :-?
From: IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda)
Subject: Re: Internment camps
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:04:18 PDT

In article <4920064@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, on 5 Aug 1992 22:58:21 GMT,
joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen) writes:

>
>I believe there is a movement to set up a museum of sorts for Manzanar,
>but it's being blocked (i.e., gov't. won't give the land for the museum?
>-- not sure exactly what the issue is).  I'll try to find some old issues
>of my JACL newspaper, which talked about the internment camp memorial.

The movement you're thinking of was to make Manzanar a National Historic
Site.  Legislation to do this was passed by Congress some time ago, and
signed into law as well.  And...on April 25, 1992, at the 23rd annual
Manzanar Pilgrimage, over 2000 people who made the trip from Los
Angeles and elsewhere, witnessed the official dedication ceremony,
which was incorporated into the pilgrimage program.

However, the money to fund the presevation, ranger patrols, and to
fund some kind of educational effort at Manzanar, so far has not
been included in next year's federal budget.  President Bush doesn't
seem to think that this is very important <sigh>.  Then again, he's
usually wrong anyway, but that's for another newsgroup. :-)

Gann Matsuda
Coordinator
50th Anniversary of Japanese American Internment Project
UCLA Asian American Studies Center
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:37:11 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>
> Why is it that a majority of the non-orientals (caucasians) that post here
> all tend to have an optimistic view on racism.

Personally, it is because I see racism and economic injustice as the
issues which pose the direst threat to our national survival.  So for
me it is either be optimistic or give up in despair.  Besides, attitudes
/are/ important.  Pessimism saps the energy of everyone it comes in
contact with.  (So can an /unrealistic/ optimism.  I hope mine isn't.)

> How can anyone who doesn't know what it feels like to be harassed based on
> there race/culture understand.

How, indeed.  But there are different levels of "understanding."  At
one level it is impossible to completely understand another person's
experience.  At the another level it is possible for any person who is
willing to listen to at least get an idea of what someone else has
experienced.  It isn't a black or white thing (if you'll excuse the
metaphor).  And there /is/ a middle ground where shared experience is
the crucial element.

So I agree with you that I'm hardly able to say what you'd experinced in
terms of racism, and that speculation on just what your experience of it
is would be demeaning, at the least.  But racism is, after all, one of
the darker parts of the human nature we all share, so I don't think that
someones introspections or observations on racism should necessarily be
rejected solely on the basis of that person's race.  However, nobody has
the right to tell someone else just what his or her experiences are.

> It seems to me that anyone lacking first hand experience at being the
> receiving end of extreme racism and be able to offer advice hypocrites.

Unfortunately, that would include some of the Asian Americans in this
newsgroup, since reports of the amount of /extreme/ racism experienced
ranges from none to considerable for those who have discussed it here.

Several of the Japanese Americans I know here in California report
only a few minor problems because of their race, even though their
parents spent WWII in the camps and they live in a state which, until
the 1950's, was arguably the most anti-Asian of all.  (I know such
people exist, since I'm married to one.)

Whose "advice" do you wish to exclude?

I try to confine my own discourse here to matters of history, comments
on general human nature, and reports of personal experience.  If this
doesn't have any value to you, ignore me or put me in your kill file.
If I step out of these bounds, please let me know.  (Knowing this
group, I'm sure to hear about it :-).

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Surviving in a White Man's world
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:19:21 GMT

In article <23441@alice.att.com> jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>[post deleted]

Jesus, what a nice post!

[Pause]

Why can't you do that all the time?  [evil :-)]

And this coming just one day after a major bout of crabiness on your part...

I guess we all have our good and bad days, eh?

Jim

p.s. As for that one comment about convincing you that I like you a whole lot,
     now, now, let's not spoil the good mood in our kinder and gentler
     newsgroup!!!!!