From: khanh@edison.seas.ucla.edu (Khanh V. Nguyen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: CATHOLICISM AND VATICAN - AN EXCITING DEBATE
Date: 26 Sep 92 16:37:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

Dear Netters,

Recently, Mr. Cuong Nguyen and I have a very exciting conversation about
Vatican and the Catholic Church. But unlike many other debates, this one
does not end up in flame. Although we still have some differences in 
opinions, the debate is very fruitful and full of understanding.

With the permission of Mr. Cuong Nguyen, I will post our letters with the
hope to promote better understanding between people of different religious
preferences.

I would like to thank Mr. Cuong Nguyen for his permission to make public
his letters.

=============================================================================
LETTER FROM Mr. CUONG NGUYEN
9/23/92

Citation:
>I don't know why you are so mad at the Vatican and put it against our
>country.
>The ultimate purpose of the Catholic Church is to save our souls, and it
>has no conflict with the welfare of any country, including ours.
>
>Be more tolerant, my friend.

I thank you for your opinion. I don't think I'm so mad at the Vatican as you
have said. You said I put it against Viet nam? No. First, as a Vietnamese I
might forgive but I never forget what those Catholic priests under Vatican
guidance have done to my country in the 19 and early 20th century. I strongly
suggest you read the research "Les missionaires et la politique colonial
francaise au Viet Nam" by Cao huy Thuan. Please read it and give me your
comment. Second, when Vatican twice came to Hanoi to start the dialogues with
the Vietnamese communist regime recently do you think that it did it for the
Vietnamese people's sake? It just couldn't be. Vatican only interested in its
Vietnamese catholic. That was why I said that I hoped the dealing of Vatican-VN
communist regime wouldn't hurt the average non-catholic Vietnamese.

I respect your opinion:
"The ultimate purpose of the Catholic Church is to save our souls, and it
has no conflict with the welfare of any country, including ours."
but I'm sure I can prove you wrong. If you're interest let me know I will prove
it.

Eventhough I think I'm very tolerant however I will try to be more tolerant as
you have commented. Likewise my suggestion to you is to go back and reread Viet
Nam history, read researches about the Vatican and its policy, etc. I'm sure
after reading them if one is open enough he/she will have a chance to be freed
by the truth.

/cuong


==============================================================================
REPLY FROM KHANH NGUYEN
9/24/92


Dear Cuong,

Thank you for your serious response to my letter. Now I believe that you are
not so radical and intolerant as I thought before.

Here is some of my comments on your exciting letter:

> I never forget what those Catholic priests under Vatican
> guidance have done to my country in the 19 and early 20th century. I strongly
> suggest you read the research "Les missionaires et la politique colonial
> francaise au Viet Nam" by Cao huy Thuan. Please read it and give me your

I agree w/ you that many French Catholic priests have done many things wrong.
But the Catholic Church should not be held responsible for every thing they 
did. After all, they are human beings, and they are French citizens. They
served not only their church but also their country.
I have not read Dr. Cao's reseach, but I did see his announcement on TheKy
magazine denouncing the recent publication of his reasearch. {_He wrote that 
the book was published w/out his authorizationn and it did not refect his 
current opinionns.

> Second, when Vatican twice came to Hanoi to start the dialogues with
> the Vietnamese communist regime recently do you think that it did it for the
> Vietnamese people's sake? It just couldn't be. Vatican only interested in its


You may not agree w/ Vatican's policy, but we Christians believe that DIALOGUES
can replace violence in solving human conflicts. See how The Catholic Church
in Poland helped in bringing down the Communist regime there w/out a bloody
civil war. And Poland has triggered the collapse of the whole Communist 
system inn Europe. The bloodless revolutions in Europe is the proof for the
success of non-violent methods, and I think that Buddism and Hindu also 
share the same belief w/ Christianity in this matters.

Finally, I want to remind you that several French and Portugal priests, 
together with 300,000 Vietnameses, have chosen to be killed rather than
to refuse their religious belief during the 19th century. Do you think
that those priest were willing to die just for money for Vatican? No,
they died because they loved the Vietnamese people, and they believed
that their blood could bring the light of Christ to us. You may not 
share their belief, but please don't misunderstand their good heart.

God be with you, Cuong. Tolerance is not enough, my dear friend, you also
need to be sympathetic with your Catholic fellows.

Khanh V.

PS. Do you mind if I post this letter to the Net ?

============================================================================
CONCLUDING REPLY FROM Mr. CUONG NGUYEN
9/25/92

Dear Khanh,

I think this is the crucial point that many Catholic people have mistaken my
point-of-view (I hoped I made it clear in the message I publicly posted in SCV
recently, anyway I write it out here one more time):

>Finally, I want to remind you that several French and Portugal priests,
>together with 300,000 Vietnameses, have chosen to be killed rather than
>to refuse their religious belief during the 19th century. Do you think
>that those priest were willing to die just for money for Vatican? No,
>they died because they loved the Vietnamese people, and they believed
>that their blood could bring the light of Christ to us. You may not
>share their belief, but please don't misunderstand their good heart.

One point that many Catholic friends of mine agreed with me is
		"dda.o TC kho>ng pha?i la\ nguo\i TC"
if you agree with me on this then I would like to take one step further (a big
step, perhaps) to say that "dda.o TC kho>ng pha?i la\ GH (the Vatican)".
Because I always believe that dda.o TC NEVER bad, but nguo\i TC are just like
anyone else, be it the Pope, archbishops, monsignors, etc. So if they are human
being with all kinds of good/bad habits then we have no choice but to deal with
them like other human beings. If they're good we'll respect and admire them. If
they're bad we'll kick their behinds.

(In my opinion) I never misunderstood their good heart. No, never. I deeply
respect their sacrifications for Jesus Christ, but frankly speaking I think
they have been cheated by the Vatican.

I'll write more when time permits...

>God be with you, Cuong. Tolerance is not enough, my dear friend, you also
>need to be sympathetic with your Catholic fellows.
>
>Khanh V.

It might be a surprise to you but a large percentage of my good friends is
Catholic (some even are "dda.o go>'c). We have had many good discussions.

>
>PS. Do you mind if I post this letter to the Net ?

I don't mind about public posting but I request that if you post then please
post all of our private e-mails because I don't want to be misunderstood.

Regards,

/cuong

=============================================================================
END OF CITATIONS.

Thank you for your attention.
Good Bye !

Khanh Nguyen.
khanh@seas.ucla.edu