Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.history
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:32:14 EDT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1405@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>
hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:

>Mikhail Zeleny <zeleny@HUSC9.HARVARD.EDU> writes

MZ:
>>from
>>1917 to 1920 over 100,000 Jews were murdered during pogroms, most of which
>>were conducted by uniformed members of the Ukrainian army.  Of my own
>>immediate family, at least two men were killed and one woman raped by
>>Petliura's troops

MH:
>The INDIVIDUALS involved were indeed murderers and should have been 
>executed. 

Please note that I have never suggested anything remotely resembling
collective responsibility.  However, as Hetman of the army, Petliura was
certainly fully responsible for the actions of his troops.

MH:
>It is curious that the English language Russian pro Czarist publications
>of 1920 complain that it is not fair that the Jewish community in 
>Ukraine at the time was blaming most of the pogroms on the pro Czarist 
>army and soldiers. I cna't give the name of publication, but there are
>copies in the University of Alberta library. 

"Curious" in what way?  Sounds perfectly predictable, given their political
agenda.  Perhaps you might recall a White Army marching song:

	"Smelo my v boj pojdem
	"Za Rus' sviatuiu,
	"I vsekh zhidov pob'em,
	"Svoloch' takuiu!"

Also see the writings of V.V.Shulgin in the monarchist perrspective of the
Jewish involvement in the revolution.

MH:
>An eyewitness account of the situation at the time was written by Arnold
>Margolin, "Ukraine and Policy of the Entente", who was the minister of
>Jewish Affairs in the Ukrainian Government (a post requested by the 
>Jewish minority in Ukraine). An English translation of the book was 
>published in 1977. If the book is not available in your university 
>library, you should be able to get it on interlibrary loan. I remember 
>that the University of Alberta library has a copy. In his book, Margolin 
>talks about Petlyura's orders that any Ukrainian soldier caught abusing 
>any member of the Jewish community would be liable to severe punishment, 
>including death. Margolin says that in at least one case, a Ukrainian 
>soldier was sentenced to death and shot for that reason. Margolin felt that 
>Petlyura should have acted more forcefully than he did, but that 
>Petlyura did demonstrate that he was pro Jewish. 

Methinks it's another self-serving document, despite (or maybe because of)
its having been written by Petliura's "house Jew".  Historical sources used
in Schwartsbard's trial are referenced in Hannah Arendt's _Eichmann in
Jerusalem_, to which I owe my earlier citations.

MZ:
>>   I note that Shalom Schwartzbard, who assasinated Simon
>>Petliura in Paris on May 25, 1926, was acquitted by the French court, to
>>whose judgment he voluntarily submitted himself.  

MH:
>Many in the Ukrainian community think that Schwartzbard was a 
>paid Bolshevik agent. There is a long history of asassination of
>Ukrainian nationalists by Soviet agents. There was Melnik(?) in 
>1938 in Rotterdam. In the 1960's, Bandera and Rebet were assassinated
>by a Soviet agents in Munich(?). 

I can't think of a single reason for "a paid Bolshevik agent" to surrender
himself to the French authorities, insisting on standing trial for his
action.  Could you suggest one?

MH:
>It is possible that Schwartzbard decide to try to avoid being 
>convicted of murder by trying to blame the pogroms in Ukraine on
>Petlyura. If Margolin's evidence, and other historical documents had been 
>available at the time, the court decision might have been different. 

The court's decision was based on extensive historical record, which was
published after the trial.  Is there any reason to discount its validity in
favor of testimonials by interested parties?

>cordially,
>myron Hlynka 

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."