HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: bugno wins the World Championship for the second time!
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:16:41 GMT
Reply-To: tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.racing, iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias) writes:

>For those of you interested in how Lance Armstrong did in the Worlds,
>according to the LA Times (Mon Sep 7), he was in the chase for the road
						      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>race win when a bystander "jumped into his path to snap a photograph,
 ^^^^^^^^
>causing Armstrong to crash" nine laps into the race.
			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Would someone please explain how you can be "in the chase for a
win" when you are only 9 laps in to a 12 (?) lap race?  Was Lance in
a break, was he in the pack, etc.  Or does the phrase "in the chase
for a win" simply mean that he hadn't been dropped yet.
   How anyone can say a racer is headed "for a win" when there are 60
(?) miles to go with a pack full of pros is beyond me.  I think the 
LA Times needs a new sports writer.

Tim Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: garyb@gcm.com (Gary Blumenstein)
Subject: Re: Tour of Martha's Vineyard
Organization: Greenwich Capital Markets, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:19:47 GMT

stek@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu wrote:
: 
: THis is a really fun race.  

I agree!  I did it in `90 and had a great time.  I made a long weekend
out of it (since I have friends who live on the island).   Four guys
and one girl from my team stayed in a little room in Oak Bluffs and
we had a blast.  We rode around the course the day before to get
accustomed to the terrain (not much as far as hills).  We rode the race
the following day (i did the cat 3), and we stayed the next day and 
rode easy and went to the beach, saw a James Taylor concert, went out
and did the club scene at night.  MAn was I whooped by the time we 
left.  It was a great time!

I've also been told that this race can be hell on earth if you hit it
during a fall nor'easter.  We were lucky and had fabulous summer-like
weather without the humidity.

: 
: intersection.  Only after the race do you realize that there was only one
: intersection.  

Beetlebung corners, if I remember!

: We had full rolling enclosure for the whole race, though you
: were wise to stay to the right as much as possible.  The sprint was dominated
: by a stiff headwind.  

Ah yes, the seawall right before you come back into Oak Bluffs... nice 
headwind! 

- Gary
-- 
Gary Blumenstein                          |   garyb@gcm.com        Internet
Unix Systems Administration               |   uunet!gcm!garyb      UUCP
Greenwich Capital Markets                 |  +1(203) 625-7937      Voice 
600 Steamboat Road, Greenwich, CT  06830  |  +1(203) 629-9136      FAX
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: womens 1-4
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:28:59 GMT

Leigh Ann Tanner (tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov) writes:

> Most women in our area also don't race 1's and 4's together.
> Although when I first started racing, they did.  What is it
> like in other districts?

In our district, the women are often put into the men's Masters' field in
races where the promoters don't expect full women's fields. Cat 4/5 women
ride with Cat 4/5 Masters, and 1-3 women with 2/3 Masters. In such cases
(and some women always!), some women choose to ride with the regular men
rather than the Masters.

When there are certain to be enough women for their own fields, they are 
most often run 1/2/3 and 4/5. We seem to have somewhere between 15 and 40 
women at the larger races here.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:24:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.002436.7564@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>Miguel A. Ramirez (machina@uts.amdahl.com) writes:
>> Marc San Soucie writes:
>> As for the USCF looking in to this- sounds like a great idea. I think that
>> it's more an issue for race promoters to look at. 
>
>Sure, but perhaps the USCF has that 'presence' that might push a track 
>owner over the brink into accepting the race promoter's entreaties.
>
>Then again, nothing's ever that simple.

Well, the track owner should need only one incentive, which should be
supplied by the promoter: money.  Our club uses a local track on a day
of the week when it would otherwise be unused.  The track owner gets a
few extra bucks a week, and we get a great place to hold training
races.  The track is a one-third mile oval.  This may sound boring,
but we run a points-race format with sprints every five laps.  It's 60
minutes of pure anaerobic fun!

The only role I could see the USCF taking is to do a write-up on one
or two such series in Cycling USA to make clubs aware of the
possibility.

John_Ampe@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mprime@zinc.Berkeley.EDU (Michael B. Prime)
Subject: Re: NCCA Eligibility (was: Re: Whats up ECCC?)
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:53:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.023310.1724@tamsun.tamu.edu> ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
>
>According to the 1992 National Collegiate Cycling Association Competition
>Guide (which is last year's edition), under "Membership," it reads:
>
>ELIGIBILITY--Collegiate Events
>              .....................  (Conference Regulations apply where
>requirements are stricter than NCCA Regulations.)
 
Most of the conferences require that students are taking 3/4 of a full
load. Some day the rules may be made consistent and made the same as those
for nationals, but for now conferences are given freedom to make their own
rules. This allows some of the smaller conferences to be more liberal
so they have enough riders to put on races.
>
>ELIGIBILITY--Road and Track National Championships
>In order to be eligible to compete at either the Collegiate Road or Track
>National Championships, competitors must carry a FULL-TIME class load (as
>determined by their individual schools) at the time of competition.  If
>
>Since the NCCA Board of Trustees is about to meet in Washington during the
>Board of Delegated meeting, I suppose that these things might change.  But
>these are the rules as I have 'em.
>
Actually our meeting was cancelled and these rules were discussed at our
last meeting anyways. They will apply for the upcoming season, at least.

Mike


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: warsa@carina.unm.edu (j warsa)
Subject: Re: bugno wins the World Championship for the second time!
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:21:48 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Nuevo Mexico, Alburquerque
Followup-To: rec.bicycles

iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias), in rec.bicycles.racing, writes: 
=> For those of you interested in how Lance Armstrong did in the Worlds,
=> according to the LA Times (Mon Sep 7), he was in the chase for the road
=> race win when a bystander "jumped into his path to snap a photograph,
=> causing Armstrong to crash" nine laps into the race.
=> 
=> 
=> Mike Iglesias                        Internet:    iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu

Could someone please post a description of the U.S. team's selection,
membership, and results? (Specifically, I would like to hear how 
U.S. Pro Champion Bart Bowen did - remember my post from last Spring?)

jim warsa
albuquerque
-- 
jim warsa
albuquerque
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: bugno wins the World Championship for the second time!
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:53:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <24783@oasys.dt.navy.mil> tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith) writes:
>   How anyone can say a racer is headed "for a win" when there are 60
>(?) miles to go with a pack full of pros is beyond me.  I think the 
>LA Times needs a new sports writer.

This, like most bicycle racing news, is reported in the "Newswire" part
of the sports section.  This is news off of AP or UPI or ?? wire and
usually is stuff the LA Times doesn't want to bother assigning a writer
to, as near as I can tell.


Mike
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:102 rec.bicycles:22241
From: mac4@cec1.wustl.edu (Miguel Angel Cotignola)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:49:23 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Sep3.172944.21573@den.mmc.com> steve@enterprise.den.mmc.com (Steve Gilbert) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.102731.3236@cs.hw.ac.uk>, sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming) writes:
>|> 
>|> In article <1992Sep2.180615.2884@leland.Stanford.EDU>, djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly) writes:
>|> 
>|> This is why I don't think Miguel will win.  It's going to be hot in Spain,
>|> and a lot of riders go faster in good weather than In-du-rain.
>I remember how it was feared that when the Worlds came here to Colorado that it
>would also be hot.  The worry was that with the combination of heat, altitude,
>and low humidity that the racers might have trouble replacing lost fluids. 
>Anyone that was out there that day can attest to the fact that there was no
>problem with fluids and heat.  The fluids were supplied through the skin from the
>cloud bank that hung over the course, and the heat was dissipated by same liquid
>sunshine, as well as chilly temps ( 60's if I remember correctly ).  Basically it
>was miserably cold and rainy.  So who knows, if it rains in Spain it might really
>be In-du-rain.
>--
>/\                         Steve Gilbert
>  \                        Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
>   \  /\    o_ ----'___,   steve@xanadu.den.mmc.com
>    \/  \___O<O______

I think that you are wrong, good weather, low huminidaty and hight altitudes
are not a problem for Miguel.  He only has one single problem the two italians
I hope he wins the World Championship, he deserves it.

                                       "viva Miguel Indurain"
                                        Miguel 
  
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: bradloff@tms390.micro.ti.com (Brian Radloff)
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Organization: Texas Instruments, Houston
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:21:09 GMT

les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:


Les, 

I didn't see this or John Ampe's post before I sent mine.  I think this
proposal looks great.  Good luck getting it pushed through.  Thanks for
all your hard work.


>John Ampe remarks:
>>I would love to see longer races (in all categories), but I see a big
>>problem here for categories 3 and 4, at least in New England.  Of the
>>27 USCF cat. 3 and 4 races I did last year, not a single one would
>>qualify based on distance.  This includes all the major New England
>>one-day and stage races.  [.  .  .]

>A valid point.  I hesitate to make the proposal still more
>complicated, but perhaps cases (1) and (2) should read as follows.
>  (1) Individual road races of at least the following distances.
>	Category	Men	Women
>	   2		100 km.	 70 km.
>	   3		 80	 60
>	   4		 60	 50
>	   5		 50
>  (2) Criteriums of at least the following distances.
>	Category	Men	Women
>	   2		 40 km.	 35 km.
>	   3		 35	 30
>	   4		 30	 25
>	   5		 25

>>[.  .  .]   Another consideration is the role of climbing.  For
>>example, the Brandon Gap stage of the Killington Stage Race (being run
>>today!) is only 45 miles, but with about 3500 feet of climbing is one
>>of the most legendary among cat. 3 and 4 riders.  Mount Evans is less
>>than 30 miles.  Mount Washington is 7.6 miles.

>>It may make sense to start with distances now that at least
>>approximate the average race distance for each class, and then
>>gradually increase that distance over a period of years.

>Sounds reasonable.  I invite comments on the tables suggested above.

I think these tables look great.

>--
>Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
>Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
>UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022

--Brian

(*                                                                             *)
(* Brian Radloff:  TI SPARC Product Engineer                                   *)
(*      TI MSGID:  PRDU                                                        *)
(*         email:  bradloff@khan (inside TI)                                   *)
(*              :  bradloff@micro.ti.com (outside TI)             ---  __o     *)
(*         phone:  (713) 274-2206                              ----  _`\<,_    *)
(*                                                              --- (*)/ (*)   *)


From: fitzhugh@hplred.HP.COM (Andrew Fitzhugh)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:30:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Races at car race tracks, was: Re: Hotter'N Hell Hundred Cat 3)
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

/ hplred:rec.bicycles.racing / marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) /  6:37 pm  Sep 10, 1992 /
> Maybe the USCF ought to work to encourage this. We get huge packs of novice
> and Cat 5 racers out for this race. It seems like a superb way to get
> people who are worried about racing on the road interested in trying a
> race.

Being one who has raced a human-powered bike on Laguna Seca in
Monterey, I can tell you not too many racers would jump at a chance to
race there more than once.  That track has a hill which looks like
nothing for the motorcycles and cars, but is a killer when your legs
are providing the horsepower.  And the awesome corkscrew you see on
ESPN is an absolutely boring descent when you're going 35-40 mph.

Still, I think you're right that these are good places to have bike
races.

Andrew Fitzhugh
Computational Color Reproduction
HP Laboratories
From: ftgcdj@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: CIPPOLINI: They seek him here...they seek him there...
Date: 14 Sep 92 08:27:45 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Does anyone know the whereabouts of Mauro Cippolini? If so, contact the MG-GB
team because they haven't a clue. He dropped out of the TdF complaining that
there weren't enough buch sprint finishes, and hasn't been seen since, let
alone race. MG-GB are getting quite anxious, to say the least.

So if you're suddenly passed at 40+ mph (on the flat of course), shout "Hey
Mauro!". If he turns around, tell him to get himself sorted out. He's a
fabulous sprinter, faster than Abdu', Musseuw(sp?), Jalabert, etc, and I always
like to watch him "tonk" it past them in the final 50 m.

So, if anyone knows anything, can they post it?

Cheers!

-------
Charles

ftgcdj@uk.ac.oxford.vax
From: fleurant@sparc15.hri.com (P.Fleurant)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Tour of Martha's Vineyard
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:45:36 GMT
Reply-To: fleurant@sparc15.hri.com (P.Fleurant)
Organization: Horizon Research


In article <1992Sep13.151758.21061@cbnews.cb.att.com>,
ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
> From the Boston Globe, Sept. 13 1992:
> 
> Kryptonite Tour of Martha's Vineyard
> 
> Women (40K)
> 
> 1. Barbara Gradley, Break Away
> 2. Jan Bolland, Look
> 3. Kjirste Carlson, Health Share

This was a points race. 
I saw this race and I also saw Ms. Gradley crash with more than 20 laps to go. 
She ran to the pit area; the mechanic had to straighten out the (rear
derailleur) hanger with a vice-grip.
This took at the least, three (3) laps. (The laps are about .5mi to 1k long)
The officials let her back in the race as the pack came around. 
The next lap she went back into the pit to get something else fixed.
(Straighten out handlebars??)
The officials let her back in the race as the pack came around. 
She then won or placed in most of the remaining "sprint for points" laps.
She won the race.

Can somebody explain that free lap rule to me again????


-----------
P.Fleurant
From: garrick@owlnet.rice.edu (Garrick F. Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: womens 1-4
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:09:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rice University Cycling Team

In article <92254.190846MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu>, <MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

|> this is just to see if anyone else shares my thoughts...

|> ...why can't women be placed within their category?  we could all
|> start at the same time and then be placed according to category...

|> ...so, any thoughts, comments, etc.?


One of the items being voted upon by teams in the South Central 
Collegiate Cycling Conference is whether to incorporate a Women's
"B" category.  We don't have enough women to justify two separate
races, but the proposal would allow separate placing and season
scoring for the two categories.  (Yes, men are categorized into
A's, B's, and C's.)

The major argument given against this proposal has been that it
would be a "real headache" for officials and promoters to have to
score all this, assign separate series of race numbers for the
two categories, etc.  (As few women as are in this conference to 
begin with, I'm not sure of the validity of this complaint here.)  
Not to mention this still wouldn't allow women to compete against 
others of their own ability.

Which is more important--being PLACED against riders in your cat,
or RACING against riders in your category?  We could place 
different categories separately within a race, but still not 
everybody will be happy because the top women racers want longer 
races while beginning riders don't necessarily feel the same way.  
And nothing changes the fact that a 50-mile RR with a field of 
3 women is BORRRRRRRRING, especially for the riders.

Anyway, if I could recruit more women riders to race collegiate,
I would.  I just don't know how to MAKE someone interested in racing.
(And no, I wouldn't want to have to race with the Pro-I-II field...
I'd get dropped like a rock!)


Garrick Mitchell
President, Rice University Cycling Team
garrick@owlnet.rice.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: dinsdale@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Re: USCF category upgrading proposal
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 15:38:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep9.222353.1895@cbnews.cb.att.com> ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
>
>Agreed.  It's just too complicated to factor in climbing.  If riders
>feel that races like Iron Horse and Brandon Gap should count toward
>upgrade points, I'm sure promoters will get pressured to increase the
>distances.
>
>John_Ampe@att.com

I'm not so sure about this.  It seems Ironhorse, one of the great races
in this area is hanging by a thread.  The first problem is the increased
traffic on the road between Durango and Silverton.  It has become more
and more difficult to put on a race in which cars, motorhomes and bikes
don't conflict.  Three years ago the top three (I think) finishers in
the 1,2,pro race were DQed for center-line violations incurred when
the racers were held up by traffic.  The solution was to start the main
race first, before the traffic gets too bad.  You still have vets, women
and juniors later who are outdescending the heavy automobile traffic.
Thiss will cause more problems in the future.

The second problem is that mountain biking has taken over the town of
Durango.  They've not bothered to put on a crit the past two years while
they've increased the number of mountain events.  I think the promoters
have lost interest in road bikes and keep the one road race as a last
link with tradition.  I wouldn't count on them preserving the road
race in the face on any more pressure on its viability.  

While I agree with the objective of getting our cat 1 racers competetive
at longer distances, we are faced in this country with many
anti-road-race pressures.  We need to be careful that we don't adopt
policies that will have the unintentional side effect of discouraging
promoters from offering us road events.




--
_________________________________________________________________
Don McDaniel                           dinsdale@chtm.eece.unm.edu
Center for High Technology Materials
University of New Mexico
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Racing in Ann Arbor, MI ????
From: atmkip@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Crispin Marks)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:50:11 GMT
Organization: Institute of Geophysics, Victoria University of Wellington, NZ

Hi Guys,
        (Oops, sorry, Gals as well) I'm considering a career move to U.Michigan
at Ann Arbor, so does anyone have an idea what the bike racing scene is like
there?
       Thanks in advance, Kip Marks.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:08:46 EDT
From: <MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: womens 1-4

this is just to see if anyone else shares my thoughts, feelings, whatever.  I'm
a woman racer in pennsylvania.  i've been riding for 3 years, racing for 2, and
 i'm a cat 3.  i'm really tired of going to big races and sitting on the start
line next to olympians, betsy king, you know, really good people.  especially i
rritating, i think, is the fact that half the time, the men's 3-4 race is short
er than my race-but then most races are too short for everyone, so . . .  anywa
y, why can't women be placed within their category?  we could all start at the
same time and then be placed according to category.  I've raced mountain bike r
aces this way and it works out fine, so what the heck's the problem.  I know so
me of you guys out there are going to go "yeah, waaah, waah, women are always c
omplaining," but think about it-would cat 4 men and cat 1 men ever race togethe
r?  no way.  so, any thoughts, comments, etc.?      Maria Conchita at PSU
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing