HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clive@x.co.uk (Clive Feather)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Splitting and Joining Trains: A (Not So) New Idea
Date: 11 Dec 92 07:04:56 GMT
Organization: IXI Limited, Cambridge, UK

In article <723891776snx@warren.demon.co.uk> leveret@warren.demon.co.uk writes:
> It used to be very common on BR
[...]
> There were many other examples but I can't remember them at this time of
> night :-)

The one time I rode it (in the mid-80s) the East Grinstead and Uckfield
lines were served by a single train which split at Oxted. Interestingly
enough, this is not the junction station - the two parts run separately
to/from Hurst Green, where the lines split. I did ask why this was done,
but I don't remember the answer.

Just after the Braintree branch was electrified, there was a peak-hour
service from Liverpool Street consisting of 3 class 309 4-car EMUs (the
*original* "High Speed Trains" (90mph)). At Witham, the rear EMU would
split off to go to Braintree, while the remaining two continued together
to Thorpe-le-Soken, where one would take the Clacton branch and the
other the Walton-on-the-Naze branch.

Services from King's Cross to Cambridge sometimes divide at Royston,
leaving one EMU there to run back to London, while the other continues.
Similarly, trains to King's Lynn from either King's Cross or Liverpool
Street may consist of 2 EMUs to Cambridge, and 1 from then on. When
there is a delay, you can see some wonderful permissive working at
Cambridge: one EMU leaving the platform, a second moving along it
waiting to move into the yard, and a coupled pair (forming the next
train) entering, all at the same time in the same signal section !

> But one I *can* remember is the Inverness to Wick and Thurso service,
> and all the wonderful shunting that that entailed at Georgemas Junction!

Ah, memories. Furthermore, Wick to Thurso is BRs slowest possible
journey: the distance by train is under 40km, there is only one
intermediate station with no reversal needed, yet the *minimum* travel
time possible is almost 8 hours ! The maximum can be 2 days !

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather     | IXI Limited         | If you lie to the compiler,
clive@x.co.uk          | Vision Park         | it will get its revenge.
Phone: +44 223 236 555 | Cambridge   CB4 4RZ |   - Henry Spencer
Fax:   +44 223 236 550 | United Kingdom      |
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,aus.rail
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: Re: Re:CityRail (Sydney)
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:27:24 GMT

In article <6913@otc.otca.oz> brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
>Correct.  The CityRail network extends as far as Cowan in the north, Emu
>Plains in the west, Waterfall in the south, Bondi Junction in the east,
>Richmond in the northwest and (I'm not sure) Campbelltown in the southwest.
>Trains within these ranges operate with the conventional CityRail double deck
>carriages and EMUs (such as the Tangara).
>

Are you confusing the CityRail network with the suburban network? The CityRail
network is defined as extending to Scone, Dungog, Goulburn, Nowra etc. The
Sydney suburban network is roughly as you described.

This is non-trivial, because the one CityRail fare structure applies
essentially through its whole area, e.g. fares in Newcastle are the same
as fares for the corresponding distances in Sydney (but are not the same
as the Countrylink fares for the same distances).

CityRail covers effectively all the commuter passenger services, i.e.
suburban trains in Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong; interurbans (i.e.
long distance emu sets); and the local services as far as Goulburn worked
by DEB sets (railcar sets) and some loco-hauled trains.

Eddie Oliver
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Railroad Signals
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:17:01 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com

Could someone recommend a good book to assist me in learning railroad
signalling? I'm guessing there is a WIDE variety of signals and
semaphores out there. I'm tired of being ignorant of this system. I live
in CTC territory and still haven't figured it out. I think the extent of
my knowledge is this:          

    * When the signal is not lit at all, there are no trains in the
      block.

    * When the signal is on there is a train somewhere in the block but
      I can't tell which direction.

    * Green means proceed, red means stop, yellow means slow or caution.

Here's a specific question: Locally we have simply signal light towers 
that look like this: (I'm not an artist): 

      -----
      | O |  This is a 10' tall       
      |   |  signal tower with
      -----  two lights, green or
      |   |  red usually. 
      | O |
      -----
        |
	|
	|
	|
      -----

      This is the kind of signal at Palmer lake on the northbound
      portion of the signal track just below the switch leading to the
      double track. Once the track goes to double the track on the right
      is generally (almost always?) used for northbound traffic, while
      the left is used for southbound.  Could someone inform me what the
      possible light combinations might mean?

      Thanks.



( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
From: shell@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: PATH (was Re: H&M )
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:34:55 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Dec14.185646.20003@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>, rmrin@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (r.m.rickert) writes:
> In article <1992Dec12.180621.20406@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
>>In article <11085@disc.dla.mil> ioiab09@disc.dla.mil (william spollen) writes:
>>
>>>The H&M Terminal building was not demolished.  The structure remains.It was
>>>gutted, rebuilt and refaced.  It sits on the NE corner of the World Trade 
>>>Center Complex, across from the Post Office.
>>
>>Not so.  Hudson Terminal was on the west side of Church/Trinity and
>>had almost direct access to the BMT Cortlandt St station.  Look at an
>>old map if you don't believe me.
>>
>>--Joe Brennan
>>
> 
> In fact, I remember you could walk from one to the other completely underground,a typical situation in the New York transportation systems.
> -- 
> 
> Dick Rickert  AT&T Consumer Products Laboratory
> 
> 

I don't know who's right about whether the H&M terminal was demolished
or not, but to me it sounds like the site r.m.rickert is describing
IS on the west side of Church Street in close proximity to the
Cortlandt Street Station.  However, the building on the NE corner
of the WTC complex is 5 World Trade Center, which is the building
the current PATH station is under.  I find this a little hard to
believe, since all accounts I have heard say that the station
was moved.

I would also like to point out that you can STILL get from the PATH
station at the World Trade Center to the Cortlandt Street BMT
station completely underground, through the WTC
concourse.  For that matter, you can also reach the IRT
1, 2, 3, and 9 trains and the IND A, C, and E trains
while remaining below street level.

My impression was the the H&M station was slightly east of the
current PATH station.
--
Sheldon Luberoff
sheldon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:02:58 GMT

In article <1gh3o1INNog1@hp-col.col.hp.com> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
>I'm sitting here reading notes at home and listening to the scanner.
>There's a discussion between a dispatcher in Albequerque, NM and a
>lineman regarding low/and or high power heaters for the switches at
>several local switch points for junctions just north of Colorado
>Springs, CO. 
>
>Do switches have heaters built into them to allow them to function in
>very cold weather? Currently here it's about -10 wind chill outside and

As a regular train commuter into Toronto's Union Station, I can 
vouch for the existence of these devices.  All of the switchwork
(and theres alot of it) entering Union is now equipped with electric
heater devices.  I'll attempt a description.  A sheet metal box 
housing a largish (maybe 10 inch diameter) blower fan sits on a 
concrete base to the side of the switch.  There is some sort of 
heating element mounted in this blower.  Then there is a sheet metal
air duct which runs under the rail, splitting into two when between
the rails.  Each of the two ducts then does a right angle bend, going
into nozzles directing the hot air to the switch points.

A historical note ... These heaters are new, installation was just 
completed over this past summer.  Prior to the heaters, the yard
crews wielded these strange looking kerosene torch thingies.  They 
looked like overgrown garden watering cans, but have something like 
a large wick on the end of the spout.  The crewman lights the wick,
and then goes to the frozen switch and pours some kerosene on the 
points.  As the kerosene goes out the spout through the lighted 
wick it catches fire, so drops onto the switchwork flaming.  Crude,
but it worked ...

Any trainmen out there may want to correct me if I'm wrong on any
of this, I'm just looking out the window and trying to figure out
what I see :-)

Iain ...


    SS  III   GG                                               SS  III   GG
   S     I   G      iain@ee.ryerson.ca       < now showing    S     I   G
    SS   I  G  GGG  iain@acsserv1.ryerson.ca < coming soon     SS   I  G  GGG
..    S  I   G  G                                          ..    S  I   G  G
..  SS  III   GG                                           ..  SS  III   GG
                                                           

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: mckenney@cims.nyu.edu (Alan McKenney)
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Originator: mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel
Organization: Courant Institute, NYU, NY, NY, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:25:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.133407@uspi2.Prime.COM> dkantor@uspi2.Prime.COM (Dave Kantor) writes:
>In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, I wrote:
>> 
>>     A second problem is that little attempt has been made to
>> provide direct public transportation to AMTRAK stations.  ....

>Whether or not the direct public transportation to an Amtrak station
>is 'by default' or added specifically to serve Amtrak is totally irrelevant.
>The fact that it is there is what counts, and in the Boston area, all three
>Amtrak stations are served by direct public transportation.

	I am sorry, I was a little unclear.  I was trying to make a
	distinction between things such as limousines, which are
	set up primarily for (airport) passengers, and typical
	local bus (and subway, etc.) systems, which may not have
	convenient connections, schedules, etc., nor provision
	for people carrying luggage.  An example of the sort of
	problem I mean is the lack of a direct connection between
	Grand Central and Penn Station.  Also, compare the loop
	busses at JFK, or rental car busses, with city busses
	from the point of view of carrying lots of luggage.

	[ a number of lines of refutation of my points deleted ]

>> For anyone else, stick to the car or airplane.
>
>  Yeah, stick to the car or airplane, and continue the environmental
>  devastation caused by both of them.  This attitude is counter-productive-
>  instead of throwing up your hands and saying it's a lo[s]t cause,....

	I don't want to get into a flame war about this.  However,
	I think you missed my point.  *I* would have taken the
	train in this case.  But most people would not, for IMHO
	reasonable reasons.  I posted what I did to try to point
	out these reasons, which I have not seen discussed in
	this group.

	I agree that ``sticking to car or airplane'' is, in the
	long run, not good.  Berating them (or me!) for their
	doing so, however, will not change things, it will just
	make people stop listening.  The only way to get them
	to take the train (IMHO) is to figure out what the
	disincentives and incentives are, and change them,
	so that the average traveller will decide that
	the train is just simpler/faster/better -- *from
	their point of view*.

	My hope in posting this was to start a discussion on
	how one might change things.

-- 
Alan McKenney        E-mail:  mckenney@cims.nyu.edu         (INTERNET)
Courant Institute,NYU,USA     ...!cmcl2!cims.nyu.edu!mckenney   (UUCP)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Summary: another possible route
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:05:03 GMT



Why not an east-west AutoTrain route?  Of course Amtrak would need
some more equipment for this -- but then that's the case with 
just about all routes right now.

I'd bet it would be popular.  Now, how about suggestions as
to what the end points should be?  Lorton, Va., might be a good
eastern end, since Amtrak already has the loading facilities 
there.  But, on the other hand, the westbound connections out
of that area are not optimal.

-- Ernest

-- 
"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature exceeds plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
From: organic@mgr.hjf.org (Miriam Organic)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:46:53 GMT
Organization: HJF AIDS Research Project, Washington DC

Is true that AMTRAK is going to start using Superliner cars in the east?

Does this include the Chicago-D.C. Capatiol Limited?  
I watch it every day outside my office window. 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Another "danger on the rr" story
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:28:13 GMT

> Terry Fry writes:
>
> On the east coast, the metal bands that hold wood flats down on open cars
> can come loose and whip though the air... I'm sure they would do some
> dammage
> if it connected with a railfan.


This is a danger that railroaders face everywhere, particularly in areas
where large amounts of wood products are hauled.  The traditional method was
using banding metal to afix lumber loads to bulkheads.  When this stuff
breaks, it is like a knife flying in the air.  Now imagine a crewmember on
the ground inspecting a passing train (as we are required to do whenever
practicable, such as when you are sitting in the hole).  SLICE....one
trainman's position open on the railway.

Now the new "A" frame bulks (I dunno why they are called "A" frames!), as in
the ones that have a bulkhead down the middle, use chains that are
permanently mounted to the car.  Problem is, when the car is unloaded, the
shipper will often forget to mount the chains back into the keyslots.  Same
scenario as above.  This is why we inspect these cars VERY carfully when we
lift them from an industry or interchange.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
From: phons@ei0.ei.ele.tue.nl (Phons Bloemen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: A TGV has derailed in Macon
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:28:44 GMT

matheys@dxds08.cern.ch (Jean-Pol Matheys) writes:

>France Inter announced in its noon (13:00) news that a TGV had derailed in 
>Macon (on the Paris-Lyon line) this morning. No deaths were reported. Only 
>five people who were on the platform  at the time of the incident were  
>taken to a hospital.  They were injured by ballast elements ejected by the 
>derailed train.  No details as to the reasons of this incident were given.

I saw a news item on the BRT (Belgian) television. The TGV was derailed
due to a broken axle. The carriage just went further without wheels,
spraying stones and other stuff from the ballast. Unfortunately, this
happened near a station with people waiting on the platform. There were
no injuries in the TGV itself.

--
----------------------------------Florete Flores !-----------------------------
Phons Bloemen         | Information & Communication Theory| Work  +31 40 473672
Tongelresestraat 309a | Dept. of Electrical Engineering   | Home  +31 40 815731
5642 NB Eindhoven  NL | Eindhoven University of Technology| phons@ei.ele.tue.nl
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Routes
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:29:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.040503.13178@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) writes:
>
>
>Why not an east-west AutoTrain route?  Of course Amtrak would need
>some more equipment for this -- but then that's the case with 
>just about all routes right now.
>
>I'd bet it would be popular.  Now, how about suggestions as
>to what the end points should be?  Lorton, Va., might be a good
>eastern end, since Amtrak already has the loading facilities 
>there.  But, on the other hand, the westbound connections out
>of that area are not optimal.

A wonderful location for the eastern terminus for such a train would
be in the Jersey Meadows in the vicinity of where the Allied Jct.
transfer station is to be built in the near future. This location has
direct double stack clearance access to the Conrail River Line, and is
adjacent to the New Jersey Turnpike Licoln Tunnel extension. Just
imagine, a short drive out of New York or any location in northern and
central NJ, load up your car and off you go, overnight to Chicago, or
three nights and two days to the west coast!

Oh well, ..... enough dreaming already:-(

Jishnu Mukerji
jis@usl.com
From: memanuel@cbnews.cb.att.com (mark.emanuele)
Subject: Re: New York <-> Washington DC: air shuttle was better
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:51:34 GMT
Keywords: AMTRAK, North-East Corridor, air travel

In article <Bz9FrL.8LK@cmcl2.nyu.edu> mckenney@gauss.cims.nyu.edu (Alan M. McKenney) writes:
>
>(8) drive to Metropark, NJ, park and take AMTRAK.  Problem:
>    if you're going to drive that far, why not drive the
>    whole way, or drive to the airport?


If you get to Metropark much after 6:00 AM there IS NO parking available
for Amtrak users. ONLY for people lucky enough to have won a parking lottery
and pay the county of middlesex a monthly parking fee.


-- 
Mark A. Emanuele			memanuele@attmail.com
Sr. Network Engineer			(201)331-4713
AT&T Easylink Services	400 Interpace Pkwy   Parsippany, NJ 07054
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Davis (CA) accident - idiot of the month!
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:25:25 GMT

> Rich Hill writes:
>
> Can Amtrak/SP sue in a situation like this?  Are they likely to?
>


Yes, and Yes.


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Keywords: switches
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:42:39

In article <1gl348INN74c@hp-col.col.hp.com> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:

              How much force is exerted when the switch is moved?

Depends on how fast it has to throw.  In busy terminal districts, power
switches are usually electro-pneumatic, and throw with a lot of force
and a loud hiss/clank.  When I worked at South Station shovelling out
after the blizzard of 1978, we were warned to stay well clear.  Out on
the main, they don't have to throw so fast, and compressed air is too
costly, so they use geared electric motors.  These take 10-30 seconds
to move the points over, but still have enough force to capture a limb
(if you left it there to be captured).  There's no safety sensor, the
motor would just stall and you'd be stuck until either the CTC
dispatcher tried throwing it back and forth to clear it, or the signal
maintainer came by (the CTC board would show that the switch hadn't
thrown all the way).  If nobody ran a red signal, you'd probably
survive to face a judge, maybe on crutches...

Lesson - do not walk over the points of a power switch.  Walk around.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Subject: Re: PATH (was Re: H&M )
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:45:02 GMT

I wrote--
> IRT cars might need a slice in the upper corners (where PATH cars are
> rounded) to avoid hitting the tube wall on sharp curves.

I've been informed that a PATH engineer told a group a few years ago
that they did tests and an IRT car could run everywhere on PATH.  The
only catch is they have installed new tunnel lighting since the test,
so it would have to be done again for the lights.  The interesting
followup would be to know *why* they performed this test-- joint car
purchasing perhaps?

Joe Brennan     Columbia University in the City of New York
                ("affiliation shown for identification only")
via Internet:   brennan@columbia.edu
via BITNET:     brennan@cunixf

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: michelle@theloop.Central.Sun.COM (Michelle Donat SE Chicago Loop )
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: rails/nuc stuff
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:19:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: michelle@theloop.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: theloop.central.sun.com

I remember seeing the DOT (U.S. Department of Transportation) test at their test center in
Boulder, Colorado.  The test was quite impressive, with what I remember two seperate tests 
one with a collision with a BIG concrete wall at 90+mph (they hooked it up to a rocket sled!)
and one with a collision with a locomotive.  
As I recall, both of the tests were successful, with no breakage in the containment.  I do agree,
having it go just past my garden would be a little unnerving
 


---

John E. Donat
john_donat@cs-lp1.prime.com

Newsgroups: rec.railroad