HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock trigger pull
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:20 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

In article <199210030023.AA15561@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

#I'm either missing something important, or I'd have to say it isn't
#a great police/self-defence carry gun. It seems like a great gun
#for target shooting or for military purposes (were safety is less
#of a factor): I'm thinking of buying one, despite my preference
#for revolvers. By the way, the price (new) was a bit under $500.
#How reasonable is this (I seem to recall Glock prices bouncing up
#and down a bit, and I'm not sure where they settled...) and could
#I expect a similar price for a -17 or -19?


I fail to follow the logic that it is not a great police/self defence gun...


Anyway, I priced out a new model 17 for $420, if that is any help as far as 
price.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hoppe's 9 & cleaning fluids
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:20 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <viking.717824881@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
#In <9209291429.AA13696@TIS.COM> stur@TIS.COM (Jeff Sturgess) writes:
#
##I don't drink the stuff, nor do I bathe in it so it could only get into my 
##system through inhalation of the vapors.   Does anybody have any facts as to
##whether or not the use of Hoppe's 9 is a health risk?   Thank you. 
#
#	Since it contains kerosene, it is a slight health risk.  Hey, you
#get that from any petrochemical inhaled over a long period of time.  The
#bottle does not, however, give any other indication of what's in it.
#

After too many years of foolishness (no ear protection, no gloves
while cleaning car parts & guns etc.) I am protecting what's left
undamaged.  Advice for cleaning guns is to use rubber gloves BUT
not the 100% latex type (they'll get holes in them quickly).  There
are several brands in car parts stores/supermarkets etc. that are
part latex or other formulation.  I am currently using Playtex
yellow gloves size large and they last 4 - 6 cleaning sessions before
they develop holes; I do have to turn them inside out to dry them
between uses.  Solvents do tend to be easily absorbed into the skin
and I'm sure the Good Lord didn't intend for Hoppe's #9 or Casey's
Degreaser etc. to be hand lotion!  :-)

BDW
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Novice's Ramblings
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:47:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Oct4.030657.28207@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

#STX@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte) writes:
##there that buy glocks, invest in a brass bore brush.  Now a question about 
##using hoppes 9 or any other solvent on the plastic portions of the Glock are 
##they all safe to use on it. (I do not want to  restart the plastic vs polymer 
##vs what-the-hell-is-a-glock-made-out-of? debates again. Just the facts please

#	Purchace some Berryman Brake Cleaner, 22 oz for $4.  Use it outside.  
#It strips grime off immediately and won't harm the plastic.   The brand 
#isn't important, but there are different mixes.   Get the kind with
#1,1,1, Trichlorethane.

#Jim Del Vecchio

	The best cleaner-lubricant-preservative we've found is Prolix.
Unlike virtually every other gun solvent/cleaner around, Prolix is
_not_ petroleum-based. Petroleum-based solutions have an affinity for
unburnt powder and other airborne particles such as dust. Also, they
tend to burn off during firing, leaving a thick, sludgey material that
is actually the residue of the original solution combined with the
unburnt powder and dust that was attracted to it.

	Prolix does none of those things, it is an outstanding solvent
and lubricant. We field-strip our Glocks, then immerse the entire
receiver in Prolix. We also totally immerse all slide components
except night sights; slides with night sights are immersed so the
Prolix comes up to the slide top, but does not submerge the sights.

	After a few minutes in Prolix, remove the parts, run a nylon
brush or patch through the bore if it was especially dirty, and dry
all parts with compressed air or a hair dryer. If you must use a cloth
to dry the parts, merely pat them dry rather than rubbing them so as
to leave a little dried Prolix on the parts.
-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Winchester Black Talons in M1911's
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:42 GMT


Does anyone have direct experience with using Winchester's new "Black Talon"
ammunition in their Colt etc. M1911 pistol?  I'm still searching for a more
effective round than 230gr. ball which will feed reliably in my Officer's ACP
which has the stock, factory, throat configuration.  Any info would be helpful as
I would be very disappointed to buy 200-300 rounds for testing and discover my favorite
toy doesn't like them.

Thanks in advance,
Larry Bonham


"We would not seek a battle as we are.  Yet, as we are, I say we will not shun it."
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:23:19 GMT
Organization: who knows

dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert) writes...
#Is this gun going to be sed for hunting or competition ?? Using 7mm will
#make you ineligable for some of the biggest 1000 yard matches. 

You can use the 7mm in any National Match highpower match.

#As for .50 BMG, it's fun but the cost is still to high. 

How would your shoulder feel after having fired 22 rounds in 22 minutes?

You need to be Rambo to fire the .50 BMG without any bipod ;-)
From: alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:27:48 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#
#Since the Glock system gives you, in practice, the exact same safety
#as a transfer bar equipped revolver, and most people have little concern
#about holster carrying loaded revolvers, I fail to see the issue.

 [snip]

#   The Glock was designed to be a revolver 
#replacement with more firepower for police and personal defense use.

As I recall, Gaston Glock was designing a firearm for _military_ use,
not "for police and personal defense".

For military use, the light trigger pull and lack of manual safeties
is probably appropriate.  And the legendary durability and reliability
of the Glock make it well-suited for a battlefield role.

If Glock has been designing a weapon primarily for police and personal
defense usage, however, it seems likely that he would have included a
manual safety of some sort.

                               -- Alane --
   /-----------------------------------------------------------------\
  /   NOBODY shares my opinions,    |    "I am a jelly doughnut"      \
 /    especially not my employer    |    -- President John F Kennedy   \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
From: bnathan@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM (Bob Nathan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:58 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA


In <1992Sep30.154641.16213@nntp.hut.fi> mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:

#If I shoot low velocity cartridges, the sound is like slamming a
#rolled newspaper against a table. Not too loud, you could well shoot
#indoors.

#The weird thing is that the first shot is always much louder than
#subsequent ones. The sound described above was the one made by the
#first one, the latter ones are like like clapping your hands together.
#Maybe this has something to do with hot gases left in the tube after
#the shot.

Perhaps you should get a decibel meter and discover if the *actual* 
energy is decreased, or if your ears are merely being numbed by the
first shot.  I was at a rock concert once where my wife and I were the only
people around wearing ear protection (foam earplugs).  When we
left, everyone else was shouting at each other due to temporary hearing
loss.  You could be experiencing a similar form of temporary hearing loss,
which makes subsequent shots sound quieter.  (Temporary hearing loss is
a precursor to permanant, irreversible hearing loss.)
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 7.5 Swiss Ammo
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:13:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.9209301656.AA11443

Can anyone give me a source for 7.5 Swiss ammo, as used in the
Schmidt-Rubin straight-pull rifles?  I know Norma makes it; is
there cheaper stuff out there?  How about surplus?

I'm also looking for a replacement stock for the rifle - someone
shortened the original one and I'd like to restore it to its
original military configuration.

One last question:  What's the current value on the Schmidt-Rubin?
This is a model 1911.  I can't find it in the 13th edition of the
Blue Book....

Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: more silencer questions
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:40:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: nuc.9210061636.AA01386

paladin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Robin Yang) wrote:
# 
#      Wiperless silencers?  Aluminum shavings for baffling material?  Why
# metal shavings?  Why not a variant on the steel wool?  And what is the best
# baffling material for low-power rounds?  I imagine the requirements change
# depending on the original report.

Older silencers have rubber cap at the business end of the silencer which
actually "wipes" the bullet as it exits the silencer.  This affects the
bullet's flight path.  This action however, helps trapping the gas from
the firing.

Modern precision silencers do not "wipe" the bullet.  Hence the wipeless
term.

-tt
From: grl@drutx.ATT.COM (Randy Lyman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm : what NOT to buy
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: drutx.20999
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


Recently, harris@u.washington.edu (Jeff Harris) posted:

#      I had your same problem about two months ago ie. couldn't make up my
# mind between 9 mms. After reading Rec.guns for a month (more confusion), I
# decided to visit a local range that rents guns. I had a nice conversation
# with the range master after trying about six different models. I was
# interested in the Taurus, but they didn't have one. It seems that they
# only lasted about 2 weeks, so after a half-dozen guns, they stopped buying
# them. They have a lifetime warranty, and you will need it! Plan on about
# 6-8 weeks of no gun/fun.
  ^^^
Try more like 10 - 12 weeks of no gun and no response from Taurus.
This has been my experience with one of their model PT-58 .380 
autos.  In fact, I believe if I hadn't written to them after 9
weeks, the gun may still be there today!  (This happened twice with
the same pistol -- it was more broken after the first "repair" than
when I initially sent it in!).
 
As Jeff says, "they have a lifetime warranty, and you will need it!"
 
To be fair, I've fired a good number of rounds through my Taurus
PT-99 without major problems.  Good thing, based upon their crappy
repair record!
 
Regards,
 
Randy Lyman		grl@drutx.att.com		"I'm the NMLRA!"
 
	 "Stop the War on Civil Rights:  VOTE LIBERTARIAN!"
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Citizenship ?
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:27:09 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Oct2.221840.27024@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wb@mtqua.att.com (Werner Baumgartner) writes:
#Is being a Citizen of the USA a prerequisite to being permitted to legally
#own or purchase firearms ? What standing does a legal alien on permanent
#resident status have in this regard ? Are these Federal issues or local,
#State, municipal issues ?

Federal law only requires that you be in the country legally. Local
law may vary but I've never heard of any.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night vision equipment
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:08 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Sep24.183646.7829@oakhill.sps.mot.com> geraldg@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gerald Garcia) writes:
#I'm looking for a source of low light/no light vision equipment (binoculars, telescopic sights);
#addresses, phone numbers, and product overviews are most welcomed.
#
#Thanks,
#Gerald
	
	U.S. Cavalry
	2855 Centennial Av.
	Radcliff, KY
	40160

	
	Litton Military night vision goggles	$4999.95

	Litton Night Vision weapon scope	$7299.95

	And a bunch of other really expensive toys.

	Hope this helps.

		-Andy V.
From: danield@unlv.edu (Daniel Davidson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:38:38 GMT
Organization: UNLV

alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel) writes:
#holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
###Glock 17/19
[review of Glock saying it is only for big hands deleted.]
##
##If you have small hands, stay away from the Glocks.
#
[Comments about beint pro GLock biased before shooting one deleted.]
#
#Unfortunately, I found the Glock to be very uncomfortable and
#inaccurate in my hands.  The blocky shape of the grip hit my hand in
#all the wrong places, causing considerable grief.  It just didn't feel
#right.  Since my hands are not large, I can only assume that my poor
#experience with the Glock was related to hand size, and that a person
#with larger hands would have had no trouble.
#
#If you have small hands, stay away from Glocks.

It's not Just the size of the Glock.  It may also have something to do with 
the shape of your hand in relation to the shape of teh glock.

I too tried shooting a Glock 19 at a local range.  Just like you, I found it
uncomfortable, and impossible for me to shoot well with.

However, I ened up buying a Paraordenance P14 (High capacity 1911a1 clone).
They have a notoriously large and blocky grip as well, But I found that the 
Paraordenance fit my hand comfortably, and was easier to controll.  The
size is not that different from the Glock (actualy I think It's a tad larger)
but the shape better fit my hand.

What is boils down to is what you are comforable with.  What fits you well,
and you can use with out being afraid of.  Before buying a pistol,
try to go to a range and rent it first to see if you like it.

Daniel
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:04:03 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <19225@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:

##Now what if I have a unloaded clip in the gun and a loaded clip near
##by???????
##Am I still in trouble?????

#Considering the illogic of the interpretation of a loaded detached magazine
#as effecting loading of the weapon without insertion of the magazine, any
#court that has that policy (e.g. MD) is very likely to consider that the
#existence of other, empty magazines makes no difference, and certainly it
#would be inconsistent to consider whether or not the empty magazine were
#inserted into the weapon.

	Incidentially, there may be laws against having a magazine in a
firearm at all during transport, empty or chock full of cartridges.  This
probably doesn't apply to revolvers, but for a semi-auto having a magazine
in the weapon during transport is illegal in many jurisdictions, and has
been for well over twenty years here in Iowa (my grandfather was fined
$5 when he did this in the late 60's or possibly even before.  The gun
in question was a Mossburg .22 bolt-action with a 7 round magazine).

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
From: ras@fred.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov (Randy Stevens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Proper Shooting Technique
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:14 GMT
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research & Development Center



     I need help on refining my shooting skills!!!

     I am interested in learning about the proper breathing technique to use 
when firing a rifle.  In other words, when do you pull the trigger-- when 
the lungs are full, partially empty, or empty??  Although I shoot/hunt 
alot, I have never learned the right way to breathe when shooting. 

    Good shooting/hunting to all...    Randy A. Stevens
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which 9mm to buy
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:13 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Oct1.165322.161@ncsu.edu> padeniso@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL ANDREW DENISOWSKI) writes:

}	Funny how no one here has really mentioned anything by Sig Sauer.
}I've always been very impressed by their quality and performance, albeit
}at a somewhat higher price ($600+) than most 9mm autoloaders.  The P226
}is a good gun, a little too large for CC, but still, in my opinion, an
}excellent weapon.

One of the original constraints was "cost less than $400."  That pretty
much rules out any of the SIGs.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: jsjackso@eos.ncsu.edu (JONATHAN STONE JACKSON)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:22 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos




  Does anyone know the legal status of silencers in North Carolina?  I would
assume that you could not just go into a store and buy one, but are there 
any ways to get around that (i.e. I need it so that my neighbors won't get
pissed). Are they legal only for certain guns (kinda stupid question,
but you never know; I need one for an HK-91)? 
  Also, is it legal to buy a select-fire receiver in NC (so as to convert 
a 91 into a G3[temporarily])? If not, are there any devices which could up 
the rate of fire?

					e-mail or post answers
Thanks

-Redbeard
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Children and toy guns...
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:44 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <sbapt1p@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
#davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler) writes:
#
##I've already decided that my (future) children will not own toy guns that
##look anything like real guns. There are guns and there are toys and they
##are separate things. I would never dream of telling anyone how to raise their
##kids (especially since I'm not a parent yet), but I just thought I'd relate 
##this story as food for thought.
#
#Gee, I carried a real gun as a play pistol as a child and nothing seems
#to have gone wrong.  It was a naval arms black powder revolver.
#I even wore this gun in my REAL holster to school where the teachers
#thought it was pretty neat.  This was a suburban school in
#Chattanooga, TN, btw, not some backwater. 

My parents didn't have me wear a seat belt when I was a kid and nothing seems
to have gone wrong...

Doesn't prove it's the correct thing to do. Playing cowboys and indians with
an (unloaded) real gun violates at least two rules of safe gun handling.

Many kids carry loaded guns around nowdays; a teacher or cop who sees a gun
can reasonably assume it's real and loaded.

#
#Best thing you could do for your future kid would be to get him toy
#guns and teach him proper handling techniques.  My father trained me from
#as far back as I can remember the difference between real and play guns.
#By the time I was in the 2nd grade, I was an accomplished shooter and had
#my own .22 rifle.  My brother and I and the rest of the kids in the 
#neighborhood played cowboys and indians and Army and somehow we managed 
#to distinguish the difference between snapping toy caps and snapping the 
#real things.  I find it somewhat insulting to the child to suggest he/she
#is not intelligent enough to be taught the difference.
#

Best thing I can do for my future kid would be to use _real_ guns and teach
him proper handling techniques. Second best thing I can do for my kid is
make sure that any toy guns he has don't look like real guns so he doesn't
get shot by a cop who assumes that he's another gang member who broke into the
school to vandalize it again (except this time, the gang member's armed and
pointing the gun in the cop's direction). In addition, I'd like to draw a 
very marked distinction between "toy" and "real" in my children's minds.

"This is a toy gun that you can play cowboys and indians with. It's florescent
yellow translucent plastic. This is a real gun. Notice we only
use this at the range, we only point it at things we're willing to destroy, and
we only use it if there's an adult present."

	...Dave
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need recent relative lethality post
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:22 GMT

Not too long ago, somebody posted an article about the relative
lethality of shotguns vs. "assault" rifles, based (as I recall)
on a number of post office/Luby's type incidents.

I *need* that article!  Thanks!

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night vision equipment
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: philabs.9209301149.AA24234
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.

In article <9209292211.AA21937@hpfcls.fc.hp.com> ses@hpfcls.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer) writes:
## I'm looking for a source of low light/no light vision equipment
## (binoculars, telescopic sights);
## addresses, phone numbers, and product overviews are most welcomed.
## 
## Thanks,
## Gerald
## ---
#
#I'm interested too, so please post.  I've heard that night vision scopes
#
#	-Steve
#

Okay, I'll post it.  

#From Shotgun News, 9/20/92

	page 20
		Stano Components	
		PO Box 2048
		Carson City, Nevada 89702
			702-246-5281;702-246-5283; FAX 702-246-5211
			(They have night vision sights in the ad for $2k -
			$3k)

	page 145
		Excalibur Enterprises
		PO Box 266
		Emmaus, PA 18049
			215-391-9101; FAX 215-391-9220
			(They have night vision goggle in the ad for $4k - 6$k
			and Stalight scopes for $2k - $3k)

I have no idea what these outfits are like.

Take care,

Rog
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Opinion wanted on AMT On-duty 9mm
Date: 27 Sep 92 00:17:37 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

chan@seattleu.edu (Anthony K.B. Chan) writes:

#Has anyone ever tried the AMT On duty 9mm pistol? Is it any good? I know the
#receiver is aluminum alloy. Does anoyone know if the slide and barrel are
#stainless steel or just carbon steel ? 

Well, I can't say for sure about the AMT On-duty, but as AMT has, imo, in its
entire lifetime, never made a product that wasn't shoddy, with the exception
of one design that they copied and got sued for (the .22 pistols)...

...I can say that it is a safe bet that the On-duty is as shoddy as anything
else AMT has ever made.

Jim Del Vecchio

The slides are carbon steel, I don't know about the barrel.