HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:27 PDT
Subject: Re: SOMALIA:US delays aid again!
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700076:cdp:1471700089:000:1698
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 28 05:27:00 1992


Hi Amos--we are not criticizng the US government to be "imperialist bashers."
We've certainly had our suspicions of the Kenyan government in the past,
when they imprisoned Wangaari Maathai, for example. 

Our objective is to get food to the hungry Somalians.  The UN is said to
be the best hope of doing this, and the US is said to have the most
influence on what the UN does.  Accordingly, we address our calls to the
UN and to US officials.  We have also called on the european community
and some African missions to the UN.  Surely the African leaders should
speak out, but it is the US and the UN who have the planes, the ships,
the fuel and the food, and those are the people we want to get moving and 
keep moving.

Unless the immediate Somalian emergency is handled, and the terrible
problems reduced in severity, Somalians can hardly plan for the future.
I understand that the US has talked about sending seeds and tools.  Byt
people who are dying by the roadside from hunger have a hard time planting
and waiting for the next crop.

The delay in handling the emergency to this date may well have meant that
another emergency will appear next year.  And yes, those who don't want
to do anything about Africa will be able to use that to say, see, they
just starve every year.  But anybody with common sense can foresee that
people dying of starvation one year need to be fed first before they
can plan for the future.  Our problem is to get government officials to
act with common sense.

(And Amos, were you calling *my* posts propaganda?  My posts are my
opinions, based on as much info as I can get together, but I haven't
got any longterm goal other than getting food to the hungry."-))

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Subject: Re: Figures on Violence - Controversy Grows
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:39:28 GMT

gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>The South African Institute of Race Relations is about to release
>a damning indictment of coverage of violence in South Africa
>by organizations like the (self-dubbed) "Human Rights Comission",
>the "International Comission of Jurists", who visited recently
>and delivered a report on violence, and the "Community Agency for
>Social Enquiry".

>The report, by Dr Anthea Jeffery, a SAIRR researcher, finds consistent
>bias, shoddy methodology, reporting of unsubstantiated rumours, 
>omission of significant categories of violence, misclassification
>of incidents, and more. Moreover it turns out that the ICJ were
>invited and SELECTED by the HRC, and that they didn't even CONSULT
>or question the SAIRR on violence figures. Telling. The figures from
>CASE, used by Mandela at the UN, are sharply criticised.

Here goes Gavan again trying to palm off the Transvaal Branch
of the Inkatha Institute (for some reason they have the initials
SAIRR) as the *objective*, *neutral* research body. The fact that
you like them (i.e. they agree with you) doesn't make the SAIRR
any better than the HRC. I am quite happy to accept that the HRC
is biased in favour of the ANC, but it is clear to me that SAIRR
has similar, if not more pronounced, bias in favour of other groups.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS: SOUTHERN AFRICA: Drought could thre
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:47:37 GMT

Title: SOUTHERN AFRICA: Drought could threaten millions, says World Bank


washington, aug 27 (ips) -- if rains do not begin in november,
crops will fail for a second year in southern africa, threatening
millions more than the 18 million people in the region already
considered at risk, according to a world bank official.

the current drought has taken a heavy toll on the water and
food supplies of almost all of the countries of the region, judith
edstrom, a senior official in the bank's southern africa
department said in a release issued here thursday.

while the region has been generally able to cope with the
drought by importing food and tapping into food reserves, those
reserves are now all but gone, she says.

most of the countries of the region have now become
''perilously dependent'' on emergency food aid and relatively
expensive imports from the west.

much now depends on the success of the next crop which will be
planted in october, according to the official.

without rain, there will be no harvest at the end of the
growing season next april, severely worsening the situation.

as many as 18 million people are at risk of starvation or
illnesses related to malnutrition, edstrom said, adding that
ensuring that all of these get enough food until the next harvest
represents a ''daunting challenge'' for their governments.

each of the 10 countries hit hardest by the drought face
special problems. mozambique, for example, has a network for
distributing food aid, but continuing security problems caused by
the renamo insurgency have hampered relief efforts.

by contrast, land-locked malawi has a weak food distribution
system. thousands of tonnes of food remain stalled in transport
bottlenecks in neighbouring country ports or are not being
efficiently distributed from four regional centres where the aid
is received.

almost six million people in malawi are at risk of severe
malnutrition in malawi, 4.6 million in zimbabwe, and 3.15 million
in mozambique, according to the latest statistics.

the drought has accelerated the movement of farmers from the
countryside to the cities, putting additional pressure on basic
city services, such as water and sanitation, while water-dependent
industries have had to shut down, throwing thousands out of work.
(end/ips/en/jl/yjc/92)


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: The ANC and the SACP
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:13:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.010732.2966@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick) writes:


>
>Trying to analyze the entire conflict on the basis of ethnicicty is like trying  
>to diagnose all car faults with a voltmeter. With suitable ingenuity, you can  
>probably diagnose all electrical faults, but you will be hard pressed to  
>diagnose a flat tyre with this gadget. Widen your range of tools and you will  
>be more likely to arrive at a useful diagnosis.
>--
>Philip Machanick
        ^^^^^^^^^
The above paragraph has a lot to do with the author's last name! :-) :-) :-)

[Sorry, couldn't resist!!!]


-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu     PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE IS LIKE
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet                   SEX WITHOUT A CONDOM 
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp                       - A TIME BOMB ------me
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Subject: Re: Campus Fascists
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:33:59 GMT

gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>Freedom of speech at South African universities has long been
>under fire. In most cases, it's all but disappeared, except
>on the net. 
[followed by gory description in which Gavan really enjoys the
recounting. Aha -- take that -- this puts me in the moral 
highground]


>This throws interesting light on the controversy surrounding the
>violence between the ANC and Inkatha. Here is a clearcut case of the
>ANC and its motley following initiating violence. And it *is* violence,
>similar to rape.

Such behaviour is clearly unacceptable and should be condemned
unequivocally.

Your analogy though is bizarre (to say the least). "...similar
to rape..." : perhaps you could explain this to the slow thinkers
on the net.
From: cogill@gacvx2.gac.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Date: 27 Aug 92 04:13:42 GMT
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, Minnesota

Dear Hardy... 
I was sitting here thinking whether or not your letter deserves a response but
then I thought, what the hell, flame him!! :)
I would agree with you that unity is indeed a myth when viewed from the
perspective of most whites... Your letter conveys a tone of "us versus them" 
Many whites have been raised with the mentality that there can be no unity
between whites and blacks because whites are far more intellectually superior to
their black conterparts.. Recently I was flying from Johannesburg to Paris
sitting next to a young white South African would was upset because blacks do
not show whites any respect... He continued that blacks were ungrateful because
after all it was the white man who tamed them and made them civilized... After
reflecting on this, I can understand where you are coming from... 
Your observation that unity is a myth is an insult to all those who strife for
tolerance and promote unity... Unity is only a myth because we allow it to be..
So, you are feeling allienated!! Welcome to South Africa buddy... IT is in this
country where 30 million people have known allienation all their lives.. It is
in this country where people have been dehumanized to uphold that notion that
unity is a myth....I would agree with you on the point of social tolerance...
However, to equate Nkosi Sikeleli i'Afrika with that of the stem is an insult..
The motivation behind singing the stem at the past game was a blatant act of
defiance... and intolerance.. However, you are forgiven for you know no better
:) 
Enough flaming for one day... I would admit that I am an idealist but I
strongly believe that there are things that you and I have in common... Isn't
that just bizzare!!! Since we ponder more on those things which divide us, we
are blinded to the fact that there are things which unite us... Can you think
of any? When I speak of unity, I speak not of a wishy washy pretence that all
is well, for all is not well.. When I speak of unity I speak of a cebration of
those things which we have in common.. For it is only those things which will
pave the way for a greater social tolerance which you yourself propagate....
William Soroyan writes that it is more socially acceptable to be pesimistic
than optimistic... Anybody who shows any sign of optimism is a fool!! 
So, I guess that would make me an optimistic fool.... Better an optimistic fool
than a persimistic fool....
I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts and now I wait patiently
for some other Dud to flame me. :)
Wishing you wonderfulness 
Rich Cogill...
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS: SURINAME: ALTHOUGH STAGE SET, INSUR
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:01:14 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

Area: Asia, southern
Reference: Disarmament & Peace
Title: SURINAME: ALTHOUGH STAGE SET, INSURGENTS MAY NOT DISARM


georgetown, aug 21 (ips/bert wilkinson) -- the peace process in
suriname is expected to move one step ahead saturday, when the
two rebel groups with which the government waged a bush war for
more than five years begin turning in their weapons.

the laying down of arms is part of the treaty the government
signed with the insurgents aug. 8. the accord also offers
amnesty to the rebels and binds the government to providing
money to develop the interior areas where they live.

but according to one diplomatic source in the capital
paramaribo, it is doubtful whether the groups will disarm, given
the hostility of the military-backed national democratic party
(ndp) to the amnesty given.

the ndp walked out of parliament just before the treaty was
signed with the rebels earlier this month.

''this tells you how fragile the process is and the attitude
of the military in this,'' the source said.

the military, which ruled suriname between 1980 and 1991 when
it lost elections, is still extremely powerful in this south
american country.

another objector to the amnesty offer made to the
bushfighters is the powerful human rights lobby, moiwana 86. the
group says that under the official forgiveness human rights
abuses committed duricg the war years will go unpunished.

moiwana 86 has challenged the validity of the amnesty offer
in court and has lost.

meanwhile according to malcolm warner, a reporter with srs
radio in paramaribo, plans to receive the weapons are going
ahead. a joint team of local, guyanese and brazilian military
officers will begin receiving the arms at various centres
countrywide this weekend.

the exercise is expected to last for one month.

the diplomatic source said the guyanese and brazilians were
asked to form part of the oas-supervised peace process because
of years of unbroken and mutually respectful ties with
paramaribo.

venezuela's conspicuous absence, the source said, was due to
that country's harsh criticism of the military regime during its
10 year
(story received incomplete)


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Campus Fascists
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 13:59:47 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:
: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: >This throws interesting light on the controversy surrounding the
: >violence between the ANC and Inkatha. Here is a clearcut case of the
: >ANC and its motley following initiating violence. And it *is* violence,
: >similar to rape.
: 
: The thought that anyone could possibly compare such an incident
: with rape horrifies me.  Leave your cheap politicking and get out
: there into the real world, Gavan.

That's precisely what it is, intellectual rape. As for
the "real world", and "cheap politicking", that's preachy nonsense.
Gavan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: The ANC and the SACP
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:56:53 GMT

There goes phillip Mechanic, right again! The idea that every soco-political
problem is SA is ultimately reduceable to ethnic conflic smack of 
Verwoerdo-Vosterian approach.  I am sure that if this approach is followed 
that okay, the problem is that ANC and Inkhatha are merely ethnic conflicts 
then the policy solution to that goes something like this "Since they cannot
live together  they need seperate but equivalent/comparable states within
which the can have own-affairs.  The two groups can be seperated only if
there is central body that can supervise their conflict". If I soundlike
some expert from Cape Town in the fifties... sorry Bloemfontein that is true.
Apartheid was based on the policy that suffered from ints conception of h 
the problem a racial ethnic conflict.  Allow me, if you may uwe Maneer 
Poppedans... Ethnic or trribal reductionism is not the path we should follow 
again. 


Haasie hoekom is jou stert so kort!
Tot siens
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 02 Sep 92 19:34 PDT
Subject: Re: NCR:Using Peacenet to help Somalia
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700095:cdp:1471700099:000:1693
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep  2 19:34:00 1992


Well, this is by far the nicest thing anybody ever said about me, and I
will be ever grateful for these kind encouraging words.

Of course none of my posts would have been worth zip if it had not
been for the smart, kind, energetic responsible people of peacenet and
their allies, the "fearless famine fighters" of Internet.  Actually, when
I first got on IGC waving my arms about Somalia, I was in the middle
of a bunch of messages about solar box cookers.  Kind people took my hand,
guided me to the right conferences, forwarded my posts, emailed encouragement,
research and advice.  And then, of course, they faxed and phoned and
uploaded appeals and all sorts of help.

Did anybody else feel that stuff turned a corner when Bernhard Helander
set up that free fax program and we apparently overloaded the state dept.
fax machine with appeals for Somalia?       Personally, I think the online
forces of peace justice and the "native American way" have scored some kind
of victory here, and there's something we can hold onto for the future.  

I also think it might be good if my particular name and personality could
get detached from this enormous project and we could form some kind of
adhoc group like "humanity for Somalia."  I have felt kind of uneasy being
a "one-woman band" but haven't known quite how to make the jump to something
else.  All the progress made has depended on the willingness of peacent
and Internet people to spend their time, money and energy helping others, and
my name shouldn't be attached to everybody else's work.

(For example, one woman requested the fax action list and then by return 
email she said she had sent a fax to everybody on it!  Pretty cool.)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:17:16 GMT

femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:

[reacting to bait laid out by Hardy Hulley]

>Another idiotic posting from UCT as usual. It makes one wonder what
>kinds of people are in S.Africa's white universities when this
>supposedly "integrated" university has people with such mindsets.

You know, it is when people react like this that I despair of us (i.e. we
humans) ever being capable of a non-discriminatory society.  What do I mean
by "like this"?  I mean here is one individual (Hulley), OK, maybe two, (but
Gavan is not so consistenly obnoxious as Hardy) who post(s) things, which 
some people object to (sometimes quite violently as well :-).  As it happens,
this one individual (OK, maybe two) posts from UCT and now it is not Hardy 
who is idiotic, but UCT.

It seems to me it is this same attitude (the one that also results in: this 
black man working for me is uneducated and uncivilised, therefore all 
black people are uneducated and uncivilised; or this banker, who
happens to be Jewish, is greedy and corrupt, therefore all Jews are greedy
and corrupt) that is one of the root causes of the mess we're in.

Beware of generalisations.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:07:23 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <pieter.715321465@ford> pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen) writes:
>femibyte@athena.mit.edu (Olufemi G Anthony) writes:
>
>>Another idiotic posting from UCT as usual. It makes one wonder what
>>kinds of people are in S.Africa's white universities when this
>>supposedly "integrated" university has people with such mindsets.
>
>>Femi.
>
>And then I thought MIT had some kind of reputation.....

Yes, it does, and that is for academic excellence. Anyway, I saw a documentary
sometime ago on the Afrikaaners, and there was a segment that dealt with
Afrikaaner schooling, and they showed this classroom with white kids
being taught about the "inferiority of the kaffirs". I specifically
remember the teacher describing the "kaffirs". She said pointing to the
blackboard "They have flat noses, thick lips, and their hair is frizzy,
not at all like ours."   Given the nature of such an education, it is no wonder
that people like Hardy and Gavan hold the views they do. Maybe I made a
blanket statment about all white students at UCT, but I haven't seen many
postings by more enlightened people than Gavan and Hardy from there.
Maybe if we could get some more enlightened individuals than these two,
I would be better disposed to retract my blanket assertion.

Femi.

(Sorry to all the more enlightened souls out there whose feelings were hurt
my blanket statements. But I still wonder what white students at 
all-white universities are taught regarding black people.)
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS-SOMALIA
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:38:05 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.

In article <BtCyJJ.GDp@comp.vuw.ac.nz> Amos.Omondi@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Amos Omondi) writes:

>I was thinking of our tyrants and effete intellectuals, not 
>the "ordinary people".

Point well taken. I should add there are two types of "intellectuals" down
there. The first type basically "imperialist-bashing" and the other working
for the Voice of AmeriKKKa. The latter makes more money, obviously.

>  Perhaps some support at the tyrant-level would 
>be possible ... But so far we have yet to get even one of the high-sounding 
>but empty speeches that they do so well up there.  In any case, I 
>have seen litle evidence that the USA has commanded them not to help 
>in any way.

Obviously not. There would be very little ideological gain in doing so. But
I wonder how many lives would have been saved had RENAMO and UNITA been 
commanded to stop the terror. At least a million in Mozambique alone. You
know what? Death by hunger, though more slower and hence more painful, is
sometimes no worse than death from a bullet.




-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp
From: dcollins@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (david collins)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Test
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:59:08 GMT
Reply-To: dcollins@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (david collins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: dcollins@thumper.cc.utexas.edu
From: joad@max.u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: RE: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (25th)
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:49:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: max.1992Aug26.094945.1

In his latest reply to <ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (25th)> Bernhard Helander
suggested ". . . to remove all future posting from "Islamic world news"..."
No matter what his excuse was, he revealed his double standard; I read one 
of his previous postings blaiming soc.religion.islam's moderator for rejecting  
his article and yet, since he does not agree with IWN he suggested a bann!
He also told us that IWN "... decided to trust the information it receives
from one of the warring factions..." I personnally read their posting and 
I could not see which group they trust!! would you help us here. 
Finally I don't think you or any one else is to make the judgement if their 
posting "... has nothing to do with neither Islam nor news." It seems to me
as if you are paranoide. Why don't you let people read and decide on their own?
Who trusted you to make decisions for everybody? I'm personally getting a second
opinion from their postings and I'm sure many others do regardless if I 100%
agree with them or not. If you have other views Just present them and let
people decide. Before I LO, I don't see why you second in blaming the UN yet
claim that the secretary general should not be blaimed!!! I believe this
stance you've taken is again dictated by your double standard and enveil a 
hidden message that makes you as guilty as the IWN of Biased opinions.
Peace
Joe Tsay
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african