HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: [F] Setup for plants and fish
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:16:28 GMT
Organization: nasa/gsfc

Unfortunately, there are a lot of tanks with plastic plants in the US.  Our stores typically
have a whole wall dedicated to the things.  I never have had 'em and probably never
will.  Most folks that do are really interested in the fish, have never heard of
the nitrogen cycle (of have just ignored it), use hang on the back filters 
(eg Whisper), have plastic hoods with one florescent light and want everything 
to be cheap.  They either get out of the hobby or "grow up" and move on to
something better.

The comment I hear the most is "they just die on me" or "I can't keep 'em alive in 
my tank".  Plants are therefore "hard to grow".  What they should be saying is
"I don't know a thing about keeping aquarium plants, much less aquariums!" Sigh.

My 20H tank at work has a canister filter, two Triton full spectrum florescent 
bulbs and is full of plants.  Right at the moment, it looks better than my
75gallon, metal halide lit, CO2 injected extravaganza!  But then, the 20H is just 
two months old.  One reason I set it up is to show folks that with the right 
knowledge, you too can have a well planted tank.  I try to stress that a good
looking show tank is not something that happens over night, but you have
to grow with it.  This is not what most folks want to hear!  

In Europe there is probably more of an aquaria culture which fosters setting up
tanks with plants, eg, the local aquaria stores can help one do this and are
perhaps more sofisticated (?).  When you go to a home with tanks, like you wrote,
they are typically well planted. In the US, it is very rare to find good 
advice on anything!  Go to three stores and you will get three different opinions.
When I went to France, I was not into aquaria as much so I don't know what the 
stores are like.  Next time will be different!  (Of course, France may be different
from Finland, aquaria wise.)  

I have a friend in Oulu, at the university there, so I may get a chance to check
out the shops!

            mark

In article <JARTSU.92Aug26043835@vipunen.nntp.hut.fi>, jartsu@vipu.hut.fi (Jartsu) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > OK, I have come to the conclusion that if I want to have plants in my tank,
> > and have them do well, then I must do away with my UGF.  How do I do this?
> 
> Just out of curiosity... is it common to have unplanted or
> plastic-planted tanks over there? Here *EVERY* aquarium hobbyist has
> real plants in his/her tank and usually LOTS of them. They do wonders
> to the look of the tank and the bio-action.
> 
> Then to the questions...

      [.....]
> 
> --
> * Jari Lehto     * Voice 90-387939    *   Email Jari.Lehto@hut.fi   *
> * Tenavatie 19 A * Fax +358 0 8735916 * fwd -> s37837k@saha.hut.fi  *
> * 00760 HELSINKI * "There is always room for music (Gospel & synth) *
> * Finland	 * and for love & friendship. And of course Atari." *
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: lenny@bmerh187.BNR.CA (Len DePalma)
Subject: What about Ammonia-Rid Bags (was Re: Activated Carbon
Reply-To: lenny@x400gate.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fiber Systems Development
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 13:45:41 GMT

Can we generalize this thread a bit?  When I first set up my tank I had
ammonia problems which the sales slime said could be solved by adding
an ammonia-rid product to my filter inserts (so, two years later I still
have the sponge below a carbon bag below an ammonia-rid bag - the latter
two are alternatively replaced every other water change). 

The above setup is according to the manufacturers instructions and has
worked well to date, however if any of it is unnecessary I would prefer
to spend the $$$ elsewhere!  So, in your opinion and/or experience, what
is necessary and what isn't for the care and feeding of an external
canister type filter in a fresh water setup?

Please respond here since interest seems high on this topic (hopefully,
so is relevant experience/anecdotes).  Thanx!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: lenny@bnr.ca                 Any opinions expressed are mine.

"You get the most noise from the emptiest barrels."  (Burton Cummings)
From: oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Speak for yourself (Was: Serpae Tetra beating goldfish)
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:53:25 GMT
Reply-To: oleg@veritas.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Organization: Palo Alto Killifish Loft
X-Disclaimer: I speak for myself only unless explicitly indicated otherwise

howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) writes:
>	Much of what we
>	keep we keep because it is abnormal (irregular) or unusual.
>	The neon tetras because they are brite, the sailfin molly
>	because we of the irregular dorsal.

Neon tetras' bright reflective stripe is a defence mechanism that works
well for a schooling fish.  It makes the school appear as a single
large creature, hopefully scaring away a predator.  If the predator
tries to go for the school anyway, the scattering of bright lines will
confuse the attacker long enough for the fish to escape.  It's not
abnormal, either, since the same mechanism is used by a number of other
species and even unrelated genera (Rasboras, white clouds).

The sailfin molly's dorsal fin is a spectacular decoration, but hardly
an unusual one for a brackish or salt water fish (compare it to the
large ocean fish like swordfishes).  It is a natural feature that does
not work against the fishes' survival in the wild.

>	As to being against natural law remember that fancy goldfish
>	do not have altered genes, just recessive ones that show.

Cancer is also not a result of an altered gene, just of your own genes
gone berserk.

You compare goldfish to domesticated turkeys and cows and contend that
they would not survive in the wild, either.  True.  But we rarely keep
them as domestic pets.  Their function is to produce lare quantities of
meat or milk (or eggs for chickens), not to survive without human
support.  Goldfish were bred to look "distinctive" when viewed from
above: the bulbous shape, exaggerated fins and bright colours being the
obvious traits to work for.

However, consider another fish bred for the same purpose from the
related ancestral Cyprinid stock: the koi.  The koi can at least spawn
and feed without human assistance.  Their colours make them conspicuous,
but at least they can swim straight.  

It comes down to the question of aesthetics.  Some people find the double
fan tail, tennis ball shaped body, puckered scales, eyes twisted around and
faced skywards, warty growths that encrust the head and obscures the eyes
or the large fluid-filled sacks that do the same, etc. attractive.  Other
people don't.
-- 
"Eight years is too long for anyone to go without skills or purpose." 
							-- George H. W. Bush

Oleg Kiselev                                             oleg@veritas.com
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: vernon@iadpsa.safe.ia.gov ( Mark Vernon - DSB )
Subject: Re: Black Ghost
Organization: Iowa Department of Public Safety
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:15:17 GMT

In article <22940@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> frazier@maverick.hrl (Greg Frazier) writes:
>watts@susie.cs.scarolina.edu (Christopher Watts) writes:
>: 
>: I just became the owner of a 6" black ghost and I was wondering what is a 
>: good food to feed this thing.  I was told that it really likes guppies but
>: I can't feed it guppies everyday.  Any suggestions?
>
>This may be off, since what I know has about blk. ghosts has been
>gleaned from the net...
>
>B. ghosts are basically blind.  I don't think that they will
>eat non-live food, and they aren't thrilled about eating in
>the day time.  If small fish cannot be found to feed them, I
>would first try earthworms (bait shop).  Other alternatives
>are adult brine shrimp and/or tubifex/blood/black worms
>(all of which are available at fish stores, but might be
>ignored by a b. ghost as too small).  They have surprisingly
>large mouths, so if all you can get are feeder goldfish,
>all is not lost... :-)
>
>--
>
>
>Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
 I have a large (8") black ghost knife, and feed it several different things
 flake food, freeze dried tubifex, brine shrimp, you name it it seems to eat
 it, though tubifex and shrimp seem to be it's favorite. I also have a glass
 ghost knife - he loves flake food but will not touch tubifex. I have been
 unable to find any info on ghost knife's in any of the fish books. Can some
 one tell me about them (feedign, habitat ect) or recommend a good source of info - Thanks in advance 
                     Mark

Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:6779 alt.aquaria:4724
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Bio Filter
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:55:46 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Bio Filter
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Keywords: 

  I have a 26g tank with 2 Whisper 2 power filters hanging on it
and found that they were doing a great job with mechanical filtration
but not so great breking down ammonia and nitrate. My answer (CHEAP)
was to take an old breeding trap that was laying around, putting a hole in the bottom to fit the uplift tube of the filter through, and hanging it under the return of the whisper. I put a small amount of filter pad on the bottom of the trap so the gravel wouldn't
fall through the slits in the trap, and filled it to 3/4 height
with clean gravel. No more problems with nitrite
************************************************************************
"Would you believe it if you     |  Pepsi ad campaign in Thailand;
saw it with your own eyes?"      | Come alive with the Pepsi Generation
   Asked the woman               |    In Thai translates to:
"That depends"                   | Pepsi will raise your ancestors
    Replied I                    |	from the dead.
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Bio Filter
Distribution: world
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
  I have 2 whisper 2 power filters hanging on the back of my 26g tank,
and found that they were doing a fine job of mechanical filtration,
but not so great keeping the nitrites down. So, being the cheapskate
that I am, I looked for a cheap solution. What I did was I took an
old breeding trap (the kind with slits in the bottom), and turned it
into a little bio-filter. I cut out a hole in the bottom of the trap
to fit the uplift tube through, and hung the trap below the whisper
so the output would drain right into the trap. I put some dacron on
the bottom of the trap to keep gravel from falling through the slits
in the trap, and filled the rest to 3/4 height with gravel. It took
a little while to get going, but my problems are over! I used a cut
coat-hanger to hang the trap on the side (for strength). It really
seems to work good. I just thought this might be an idea someone
else could use.
				  -bruceg-

************************************************************************
"Would you believe it if you     |  Pepsi ad campaign in Thailand;
saw it with your own eyes?"      | Come alive with the Pepsi Generation
   Asked the woman               |    In Thai translates to:
"That depends"                   | Pepsi will raise your ancestors
    Replied I                    |	from the dead.
***********************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:7043 alt.aquaria:4865
From: CCPHIL@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Phil Leith)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Thanks for replies + TFH Question
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 15:30:54 CDT
Organization: University of Missouri
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizzou1.missouri.edu

Good.  My posts are getting out.  And quickly.  Thanks to those flooding
my mailbox.
 
Anyway, now that I have your attention, I have a question.  I used to get
Tropical Fish Hobbyist.  I dropped it in January, I think.  I'm getting
AFM.  Anyway, TFH used to have mail order house ads in it.  One day this
summer, I picked up a copy to see about mail-ordering some stuff - and
I saw no mail-order ads.  Have they quit those ads for good?
!~~~~~o~~~~~/~~~~~~~ Phil Leith, Meteorologist & Tropical Fish Hobbyist~~~~!
!     o    / \                                                             !
!      o /    \   /                                                        !
!       <  )   =-{         Bitnet     : CCPHIL@MIZZOU1.BITNET              !
!        \    /   \        Internet   : CCPHIL@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU        !
!          \ /                                                             !
!___________\______________________________________________________________!
From: johnn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Nicol)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:49:24 GMT
Subject: Drilling Aquarium Tank
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria

I have an old 55 gal tank that I came across that I would like to setup.
What I want to do is drill two holes in the bottom for water inlet and 
outlet.  How does one drill a hole in glass or where can I get it done?
I have heard rumors that only kind of glass that can be drilled is 
non-tempered.  How do I tell what type of glass I have?
From: mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Experiences with a new plant tank
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:41:05 GMT
Organization: nasa/gsfc

In article <1992Aug26.014017.12065@cs.brown.edu>, jle@cfm.brown.edu (Jon Elion) writes:
> 
> frazier@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Gregory Frazier) writes:
> 
> > Do you ever vacuum your gravel?  Do you do a "deep" vacuuming, or do
> > you simply syphon from near the bottom?
> 
> I have so far been to chicken to touch the gravel, but plan to start
> shallow vacuuming soon (using siphon tube with large-diameter barrel
> that lets gravel get agitated but not siphoned).

I started with sucking my gravel (python) but gave up after damaging too
many plants.  Also, the mulm simply disapeared.  And for some strange reason
the Mylasian trumpet snail population has increased.  (grin)  Now I 
just change the water.

> 
> > Do you uproot your plants when pruning, or do you
> > prune them in tank?  (that might sound like a strange question,
> >unless you've seen George and Karla's video tape - they literally
> >pull the plants out of the tank to prune them)
> 
> I have taken to using a scissors to prune back overly-tall plants.  My
> plants went in July 3rd, and are just now finishing the spreading process.
> I will need to start thinning actual plants (not just pruning) very
> soon now.  Yes, I've seen the Booth's tape.  Cost me a lot of money (i.e.,
> pushed me over the edge into setting up such a tank myself).
> 
Really!  I blame the net and George is a big culpret (thanks George...truly).
I have found that the bunch plants need to be uprooted as pruning them 
just caused them to get weeker.  Your tank may be different and it is 
a lot less work to cut than to uproot!

                 mark
> 
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: ferrer@rtsg.mot.com (Arnold S. Ferrer)
Subject: Biolife "wet/dry" Filer by Hagen
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:00:22 GMT

A few weeks(or months) back, someone inquired about this
product. I'd too would like to get informations on this.
Could the person who requested the info. or the people who
sent the info. send me e-mail about this.

 --arnold--
 ferrer@rtsg.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
From: ron@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ron Burns)
Subject: Re: Cannister Filter Question ?????????????????
Reply-To: ron@minnow.UUCP (Ron Burns)
Organization: Unisys Corporation
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:40:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.161402.10690@col.hp.com> howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) writes:
.....
>
>If the chem filter comes prior to or after a non existent or undersized
>bio filter then then chem filter will take on the function of a bio filter.
>The bacteria present in bio filters will coat the chem filter particles
>and render them useless as a chem filter.
.......
>Howard Rebel hpcsos.col.hp.com 
>

Yes and no.  While this may be a fine way to set up the filter, I don't
think we want to lead anyone to believe that this is exactly true.
If it were true that bacteria only live in the part of the system WE call
the bio filter, ok.  But there are no little bacteria fences, or signs 
saying 'Stop! Go back to your homes!' as the water passes out of the
bio media.  There are bacteria on your carbon.  On the tank glass.  On your
riser tubes and every where else.  
This is true no matter if your filter is oversized or undersized.  Your
only chances to keep the carbon free of nitrifying bacteria are:
	1)  Create some kind of ONE PASS bio filter that ENSURES that
		ALL ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are removed from ALL water
		that leaves the filter.  Then allow the water to pass to the 
		carbon.
	2)  Sterilize the water that leaves the bio filter.  Massive UV
		exposure, Lots of ozone, boiling, whatever method.
None of these are feasible.  None are required.  It comes down to this.

		Don't worry about bacteria on your carbon.

-Ron

-- 
Ron Burns              
Unisys Corporation                                      ...!rosevax!minnow!ron
Phone:(612)635-6927                           minnow%ron@rosevax.rosemount.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:04:41 EDT
From: <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: [F] Serpae Tetra beating the tar out of goldfish!?

Go figure!  I just populated a 29g freshwater tank (cycled for two weeks)
with one 2" garden variety fantail goldfish (Carassius auratus, I believe)
and 2 1.25" Serpae Tetras (Hyphessobrycon serpae).  This tank is primarily
for my girlfriend who kept pointing to the marine fishes and saying why can't
we put one of those in with the goldfish?  They're so pretty.  (grinning to
myself)  Anyway, I believe due to the coloration differences that one of the
tetras is male and one female. The tank is very heavily planted (about 2/3)
and the water quality is fine (a bit hard, but coming down).  The alleged
male tetra has reduced the goldfish to a quivering mass.  It harrasses
it to no end and is nipping the fins to the point where in just two days they
are split and frazzled.

I've isolated the tetra into a breeding basket, but I don't like to keep
him in there if I can help it.  This doesn't sound right for Serpae Tetras,
which are discribed in Axelrods as lively, peaceable community fishies.

Thoughts on the matter:  are two too few?  (read that fast!)  Do they
need a school so that they can beat each other and not the goldfish?

Could this be a territorial display?  If so one little fishy has chosen the
whole tank as his territory.  Could this be a predisessor (SP?) to mating
and egglaying?  Hmmmnnn.  Any input?

| HANS C. MASING                   | A BAD ATTITUDE IS THE      |
| HCM100 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU           | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE     |
| MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS   | WAY I THINK AND THE WAY    |
| PENN STATE UNIVERSITY            | YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK.  |
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: patton@phy.uab.edu (David Patton)
Subject: selling young
Reply-To: patton@phy.uab.edu
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:03:43 GMT


How does one go about selling fish to the local pet stores. Those of you who
have experience with selling back fry you have raised please respond. I am 
having quite a bit of success breeding cichlids and would like to sell 
the young. Any suggestions as to how to approach fish stores about buying
them is appreciated. Thanks!!!

patton@phy.uab.edu
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Gravel, what is the best way to clean it?
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:49:09 GMT
Reply-To: shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

The best way I've found is a two-bucket method.  Bucket #1
holds the gravel, and is filled with water and thoroughly
worked to get as much of the dirt into the water as possible.
The water is then poured into Bucket #2, trying with hands and
other methods to keep as much of the gravel as possible in Bucket
#1.  (This means that _some_ gravel will make it into #2, but
rather little).  It's then pretty easy to pour the water from #2 into
a drain, keeping all or nearly all of the gravel in #2.  You then
return the gravel in #2 into #1, and repeat process until water
is clean (indicating gravel is clean) in #1.
				Tim
-- 
Tim Shimeall ((408) 646-2509)
The proper response to detecting a bug isn't to fix the bug - it's to make 
sure you'll never have to worry about that bug again.  --- Richard Hamming
From: fssmith@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Greg Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: [M] [R] Lighting
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <16533@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu) writes...

> stuff deleted

>At least one person mentioned bad experiences with shop lights in
>terms of their effect on bulbs - apparently he found that bulbs
>lasted significantly SHORTER when used in a cheapo shop strip
>instead of in a high quality aquarium fixture. A further problem
>with cheapoes is the fact that they have no waterproof endcap -
>leading to possible shorting problems again. Other notable
>weaknesses of a cheapo include lesser efficiency (mentioned by
>more than one person) and lack of a high quality reflective backing.
>The latter seems unimportant to me, since I plan on buying bulbs
>with built in backings.

You will get more light with a good reflector than you will using one of
the bulbs with a reflective coating on the inside.  I have used both
and there is a noticable difference.  I plan on buying or making
something like the triton reflector material to go over my current vho
bulbs which have the reflective backing.

Greg Smith
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: mar@athena.mit.edu (Mark A. Rosenstein)
Subject: Re: A few Q's on setting up a reef
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:31:18 GMT

Yes, a ballast is what helps start some kinds of light bulb.  You
basically can't operate those bulbs without one.  Some bulbs, such as
florescents, require a starter as well.  Metal Halides require a
ballast but not a starter.  You must use the proper ballast for the
type and wattage of bulb you are using.

What sort of lighting would be best for your reef tank depends on lots
of things.  There are people who believe you can't keep a reef without
a whole lot of light, and others getting by with less.  It partly
depends on the size of your tank and what you will keep in it, partly
on luck, and partly on who you believe.  With 2 MH's and 2 actinics as
you mention, you should be in good shape to keep stony corals,
anemones, and other light-loving creatures.  As bright as the MH's
are, the actinics will not leave the tank looking blue.

Yes, there are different brands of bulbs.  I only have experience with
the CoraLife 175 Watt 5500K bulbs and have been quite happy with the
setup.  I've used several different kinds of actinic bulbs.  Phillips
makes the original actinic bulb, many other companies make similar
bulbs.  I've also used U.R.I. Super-actinics, which have a built-in
reflector.

If you are starting up a new tank, get all of the live rock at once.
It's only if you are adding rock to an established tank that you
should only add a little bit at a time.

If you are going to try to run the tank without an external filter,
you should use all live rock.  If you decide to put in a wet/dry or
other filter, you can get by with putting live rock over plain base
rock.  To keep a reef happy, you really do need a skimmer.  Venturi
skimmers work better, but are generally more expensive than
counter-current skimmers.
					-Mark

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria