HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM (Ignatius Ding)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: SVDC Board elected Officers
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:54:21 GMT
Reply-To: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: Dennis.D.Lee@Eng.Sun.COM, donovan@csl.sri.com,
              hknet@cs.wisc.edu, ho@mips.com,
              ifcss%WAM.UMD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              joseph_ng%5y@hp0200.desk.hp.com, jung_lin%40@hp1900.desk.hp.COM,
              sdc@longhorn.Corp.sun.com, ggach@pandora.sf.ca.us,
              xwu@janus.Berkeley.EDU, cnd-editor@sdsc.edu,
              melody@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com, jchu@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com,
              wuling@s1.msi.umn.edu, li@perry.berkeley.edu,
              jyee@eclair.berkeley.edu, Isaac.Chen@Eng.Sun.COM,
              ide!ide.com!cai@uunet.UU.NET, wwang@mail1.cis.umn.edu,
              china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, ting_s_wu@ccnf.hf.intel.com,
              nguyen@drutx.att.com


			   * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * *


In the September business meeting last Saturday, Silicon Valley for Democracy
in China (SVDC) Board of Directors has elected the officers for the 4th term,
i.e. Fiscal Year 1992/1993.  They are as follows:

     Chairman of the Board and CEO	Charles J.Y. Shao
     Vice Chairman			Anthony L. Ma
     Secretary				Quey-Ing Chang
     Treasurer and CFO			Constance Chang


In addition, the SVDC Board passed a resolution to re-structure the working
committees and named chairpersons to head each of the working committe:

     Administrative and Finance 	Quey-Ing Chang
     Communications			Ignatius Ding
     Dissident Support			Stephen Li
     Education/Public Awareness 	Barry Chang
     Fundraising			Constance Chang/Ting S. Wu
     Public Relations and Spokesperson	David Ong


The 1992/1993 Board members were elected be the general membership on August
15, 1992, including sixteen directors who were originally from five countries
or regions (1 from China, 8 from Taiwan, 4 from Hong Kong, 1 from Singapore,
and 2 from United States, with one of them a Hungaririan descendant):

     Sik-Kee Au**	 Barry Chang	      Constance H. Chang
     Quey-Ing Chang	 Michelle Cheng       Yu-Tai Chia
     John Chu		 Josephine C. Ding    Cecilia Fabos-Becker
     Edward C.Y. Lau**	 Stephen Li	      Anthony L. Ma
     David Ong		 Charles J.Y. Shao    Shi-Shu [Debbie] Wang
     Bangtai Xu

Note:  1) ** denotes the Directors-Emeritus who were former chairpersons within
	  the last three years as the SVDC By-Laws stipulates.

       2) Charles Shao was re-elected to a second term as the SVDC Chairperson.


Ignatius ding
SVDC Communications
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: lwang@mariner.amc.edu.au (Lou  Wang)
Subject: SENG TONG AND CHINESE POLITICS
Organization: Australian Maritime College
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 03:24:29 GMT

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: 3011_6470@UWOVAX.UWO.CA
Subject:      Re: Whose fault is it anyway?
Reply-To: 3011_6470@UWOVAX.UWO.CA
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 07:34:56 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Xiao-Cong Peng wrote:

>However, the example cited is sort of too artificial.

!>Ask a x-USSR citizen, when one could hardly feed
!>himself, how much does freedom of expression mean?    -- D.Sheng --

This example is not artificial at all.  I read a recent article
on Christian Science Monitor about conditions in Russia.  It reported
that in a recent poll, more than half of the residents in Moscow prefer
to live in the old USSR (before Gorbachev) than in the present day Russia.
It is a sad reality.
(I remember the number is around 60%, but I am not sure before looking
into the article again.)

>May I present another example for comparision?

>A man is fed perfectly.  But he is banned to speak his mind.  He is banned
>to express his dislike or like, his love or hate.  What does the feeding mean
>to that person?

To be more specific, open expression of political dissent is baned
in China, also a sad reality.  In private, one can speak as much as
one wants.  Among young students, it is even more open.  The more
"unorthodox" the thoughts (relative to the official lines), the more
popular.

The intimate relationship between economic progress and HR has been
discussed on this net before.  Let me stop before this post gets too long.

Dave Sheng.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Crocodile's Tears - by Wang Ruowang
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:23:52 GMT

In article <zhu.716068654@menaik> zhu@cs.UAlberta.CA (Eric Y. Zhu) writes:
>"Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM> writes:
>
>>	Since when have the Chinese Communists become so charitable and
>>benevolent?  On August 13th, the delegate from China, one of the five permanent
>>members on the U.N.  Security Council, abstained his vote on the resolution to
>>authorize use of force in Bosnia, 
>[...]
>We have seen China abstained its votes on UN resolutions several times.
>I personally don't like to see this happens repeatedly.
>IMHO, as one of the major nations in UN Security Council,  China should
>either go for or against a bill. If China doesn't like the one proposed
>by other countries, go propose its own. However, as Chairman Mao taught
>us `everything is of two sides'. :-) Nothing is perfectly good.
>--
>
>===
>Zhu Yuchen, Edmonton
China only vetoed twice since 1972 assumed the seat. That is all because of 
Taiwan. West played Taiwan card to tie China up on international politics.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's Showdown
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:59:11 GMT

In article <BtyGL7.4v4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "T. Bao" <I990002%UNIVSCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu> writes:
>
>It is really interesting that Shen Tong's timing to trigger the most
>sensitive nerve between China and US coincided with several big things.

  If the news is true, then it's the CCP who controled the timing.

>His wisdom and calculation was used to the best. Very impressive.
>His sacrifice will definitely trade off: passage of greencard bill,
>endorsement of congresspersons and Democrat's precident candidate.

  Your wisdom could be even more impressive if not with a wrong
  calculation.

>No, he won't sacrifice that much because the US will take care of him
>very well. That's for sure. Masters always take care of their running
>dogs.

  To be able to show your wisdom, you seem have been well taken care of.

>Shen is giving Bush a pair of small, yes, very small, shoes to wear. The
>shoes are so small that Bush is in real miserable situation.

  Probably you should lend him your wisdom to handle the situation.

>                                                             I feel sorry
>for George that even with his well established political skill he may
>still lose his career in the hands of a young democrat from China.

  Seems he just lacks that bit of wisdom of yours.  BTW, why do you
  feel sorry for him?  Why are you afraid he may lose his career?

>                                                                   Who says
>that Chinese Americans are not very good at politics?! Look at the
>new immigrants from China and you will get encouraged.

  You yourself are very encouraging.

>                                                       Some of them
>may get into Clinton's cabinet. If I were Clinton, I would promote Shen
>to be the embassador to Beijing. The reason: Yellow can only be beat
>by Yellow ( Yi3 Huang2 Zhi4 Huang2). ;0

  Unfortunately, to Shen, you are no Clinton.

>Well, it may be a good idea to change my major to political science so that
>I can get some leftover in time. Oh, I should cover up my political
>ambition.

  Want to be the embassador to Beijing?

>          Yes, I am gonna fight for democracy and human rights in China.

  No kidding.

>The most glorious job ever existing in this confusing world.

  Certainly not confusing someone who can identify the most glorious job.

>Democracy fighter, what a beautiful name!

  To someone being well taken care of, it's probably a beautiful name.
  But to people like Shen, it's life, suffering, or death.

>T. Bao

-ping

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Zhang Yun Fei <zhang@BUAST7.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  Three Goals
Reply-To: Zhang Yun Fei <zhang@BUAST7.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:21:37 GMT

Good, William Deng. Good work in your latest post on the net. Keep going. You
are making progress. What a wonderful thing to see your these progresses,
especially after so many efforts. I am encouraged by this fact which indicates
the so-called freedom of speech do have tremendous powers in shaping the
human society. Two minor comments I had to your post for your reference at the
end of this message.

Yun Fei Zhang

> Spirit of freedom is also important. The deadlock is that the interpersonal
> utility comparison is impossible. So, for somebody who prefer to stay in
> Somalia to enjoy freedom of expression and organization though hunger
> and civil war are prevail, rather than stay in China, I have nothing
> to say.

You got it right. Seems you are approaching the consensus on this net.
ST chosen to have a visit to China for whatever motivation he may have,
it is his choice. As long as his choice is within the limit of
excising his basic right of "freedom of expression & organization",
CG's arresting of him is illegal and should be strongly condemned.

As for your citing Somalia as an example of freedom of expression &
organization", I will beg you a pardon:-(. You also cited Russia, which
is in the process of difficult transition, to support your arguement.
However, IMO, it is way to early to draw conclusion on Russian's fate,
especially to be careful not laugh too much while others are in hard time.
An old saying is "the laugh at the latest is the sweetest". Although one
may change his/her predictions over the course, we better to make it at
the minmum.

>
> But, I believe, for most people,(not just those elite) the desire of avoid
> hunger goes ahead of the desire of free expression.
>
> William Deng

As CG/CCP has claimed for quite a few decades that China/CCP has solved
the problem of starvation (as one of CCP's glorious accomplishments in
addition to making China independent of KMT:-), then seems it is the time
for China to seek the latest goal by your definition and by your believe.
What do you think? Maybe a bit homework is needed to see why you concluded
the opposite.

Yun Fei Zhang
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's Arrest Confirmed
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 18:03:49 GMT

In article <18931vINNp2q@network.ucsd.edu> pshen@weber.ucsd.edu (Pu Shen) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.235553.5544@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>These "Chunde Shi" and "William Deng" and "T Bao" reminds me of some sentences 
>Lun(3) Xun(4) said long time ago:   "These little mean things use their own 
>dirty little hearts to assume the good honest guys' hearts (yi xiao ren zhi xing
>du jun zi zhi fu) and then pretend that they themselves are good guys and 
>denounce the so assumed bad hearts of the other people.   What they don't 
>realise is that all they did is to show the world what a dirty low heart 
>they themselves have."
>
>Lun Xu is great.  What he said more than half a century ago still applies
>perfectly today.
>
>PS.   Of course this is not my name and account.    I might go back to
>      China some day and I don't want to be in a "hotel" room where no
>      one knows.    I admire heroes who dare to be "famous".
Shameless "cross dressing" in Amerians' words. Lun(3) Xun(4) dies not deserve
to be abused by Han Jian: Let look a couple of examples what those
"D-Fighters" doing:
   1. Fridays Boston Globe had a pictutre with Sheng Tong on left, Rose
Terrill in the middle, and another CHinese guy on left. The attention of both
CHinese are focused on Terrill. It clearly told me who is boss down there.
   2. ONe of the "D-Fighters" mouth piece's editor was trying to claim "credit"
for their "good work" in exampting "Two year home-stay requirement", on net. 
We all knew the examption was declared right after TAM crack down started. The 
two events were closly connected, that nothing could happen in the middle had
any effect on the latter one. Should we say the TAM crack was their "good
work" too? I do not think they foresaw the crackdown. But from This
"authoritive D-Fighter" writing, it indicates something was wrong on the
democarcy movement oversee.
   3. Another frequent "authoritive D-fighter" accused others "soar grap" when
face critizm on "protection bill". If as "D-fighter" claimed that the bill
is good for China. It should benifit all Chinese as a result. Why "soar
grape"? Is it that the "bill" is a "grape" for "D-fighters" only!

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re:      Re: someone who sounds funny
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:20:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.013932.28039@athena.mit.edu> zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu) writes:

>By making rumor against rival? :) give me a break.

I guess you mean my problem with TD Lee. First, the contents of the
post was from an anonymous email of Canada after TD's visit to Deng
in 89. I thought that email carried some information. In fact, Science
Magzine had a picture of TD shaking hands with Deng. It had a caption:
"Why he is smiling?". It think this is indeed a good question: why he
was smiling and how could he shake hand with Deng right after the
tragic killing in Beijing. Science wanted to quote my post and I refused.

TD has never been and will not be my rival. I respect his Academic
reputation, but I was sorry that he lacks sense of justice.

>Did I make any rumor or personal attack against anyone? :)

It does not make you any better.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Jinshou Yu <yu@GAUSS.CASR.FAU.EDU>
Subject:      Help Needed for Microsoft Word
Reply-To: Jinshou Yu <yu@GAUSS.CASR.FAU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:58:12 GMT
Comments: To: China-Net <CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Dear netters,

  I installed the "Microsoft Word" in "Window 3.1" recently. The main part

works properly, but the Equation Editor has some problems. When some

symbols are selected, they do not show as they should be. An integral sign

would appear as a "Z" in the screen and also be printed as "Z". Could

anyone help me to fix the problem?   Thanks in advance.


  Jinshou Yu

  Florida Atlantic University
From: ghost@ghost.ak.uk
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: test
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:06:33 GMT
Distribution: talk.politics.china
Organization: Private

Test.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Shicheng Jiang <shicheng@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Clean Up CHINA-NT
Reply-To: Shicheng Jiang <shicheng@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:04:46 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

If you really like censorship, you should go back to China. There is a good
censorship practice over there. You can expect what will be said on tomorrow's
newspaper, so you can sleep well tonight.

---Shicheng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: George Zhu <zhu@RISKY.ECS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  Modern Economy, Democratic Principles
Reply-To: George Zhu <zhu@RISKY.ECS.UMASS.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 15:57:26 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>From: John Cornett <library@SUNSPOT.SUNSPOT.NOAO.EDU>
>
>If all hope for both economic prosperity and democratic principles:
>
>1) Should democratic principles come first, then modern economy follow?
>2) Should modern economy come first, then democratic principles follow?

Don't mean to discourage this meaningful discussion, but this sounds
to me similar to questions like "eggs first, or chicken first". :-)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject:      The book by Harry Wu: Comment
Reply-To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:31:08 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, shaber@ccm.UManitoba.CA

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. "Laogai: The Chinese Gulag" by Hongda Harry Wu ...................... 52
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Haber (shaber@ccm.UManitoba.CA)
Publisher: Westview Press; 247 pp. $34.95

>....Deleted....
>The death penalty
>is applied for crimes as insignificant as the export of cultural relics

Insignificant?! Could somebody here has such a insignificant piece, I would
loke to offer very significant amount of money for exchange. Export? Dose
Harry Wu regards it as part of human rights violation that he dares not
participate such a good international trade? How about call it "smuggle"
instead of "export"? When even death penalty cannot stop the wave of
smuggling cultural relics, what do MR.Wu expect from lift that penalty?
Each piece of culture relics "exported" from China and then Mr.Wu could
write another book about how Chinese government destory Chinese culture?
Mr. Wu better go read some basic books about criminology before publishing
a book about Chinese prisoners.:-)


>Chinese military
>power also holds captive millions of people in Tibet, Xinjiang and Inner
>Mongolia.

There is an obvious contradiction between here and the claim that prisoners
are forced to produce export goods. But everyone knows that the transportation
cost is terribly high in that three remote provinces. The *millions* of
prisoners should be stationed in GuangDong to be able make some profits
out of export goods by forced labor. Now Harry Wu should read some basic
economics books before talking about "unfair trade". :-)


>In fact, one of Mr. Wu's most unexpected revelations is the part played by
>prison labor in China's surge into the international market economy.

How big is the part? 1% or less? Former Soviet Union enjoyed a bigger
prison labor, but we never see any achievement by Soviet prisoners in
the international market economy. :-)


>The Gulag makes so much money that it more than covers its costs.

Show us the data, "so much", $10 per prisoner per month?


>One of the
>reasons for the success of joint ventures with China is the fact that prison
>labor is so cheap.

So cheap, also so stupid and so unreliable. I haven't seen any economic
research on this great proposition. I know there are some econmoists on
this net. Does anyone want to pick up this topic? It will promise a
breakthrough and a series of papers, if not another book. :-)



William Deng

(for the complete review article, please refer to 9/14/92's CND book reviews)
From: ylq@lems23lems.brown.edu (Yan Shen)
Subject: Re: Help Needed for Microsoft Word
Organization: Laboratory for Engineering Man/Machine Systems
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:04:20 GMT

In article <92253.091000LOVBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <LOVBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
|> Did you get the original copy of MS Word? or you just simple copy the program
|> out of some PC? of so, this might be the problem.
|> On the other hand, you can try to post your question in Windows news group. I
|> think the people out there can help you better.

Another possibility could be the printer doesn't have fonts to suport the 
EE fonts. Why don't you rerun the printer set up ? For most 24-pin dot-matrix 
printers this could be a problem. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Jin-hua Yuan <YUAN@NIEHS.BITNET>
Subject:      A typical case
Reply-To: Jin-hua Yuan <YUAN@NIEHS.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:14:00 GMT

I have following experience that may be use as a typical case.
in 1990, I was graduated for Chemistry department at Wayne State University and
was interviewed and invited by a American company on the campus to have a
official interview later on.  I got all the document but later was told that the
trip for interview was canceled simple because I am not a PR despite I was under
Bush protection order and was fully qualified for the interview.
Therefore, this bill is essential for our future job hunting.
Li Ya at NIEHS
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: China? What China?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:07:44 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor

>As some of you may have noticed if you've followed America's
>Presidential campaign close enough that both Clinton/Gore and
>Bush/Quayle have repeatedly claimed that the cold war is over,
>Communism has disappeared from the surface of this earth, etc.
>I would agree with the first point. But Communism no longer 
>exists? What about China, then? 
>
>When Soviet Union was changed color, one may have imagined that
>China would've probably emerged as a main threat to the ``free 
>world''. However, it seems to me that US has never taken China 
>very seriously when it comes to the possible rivalries on the
>international arena. China's repeated abstantion from UN's
>resolution (Desert Storm, etc.) has also supported such a claim.
>And now that Bush has lifted 10+year ban on arms sale to Taiwan 
>(F-16) and totally ignored China's protest. It again shows yet 
>another evidence that China has no impact whatsoever in America's 
>decision-making and play insignificant role in world's politics. 
>
>I am just wondering how many of you still believe that China is strong
>enough to have a say in the world.

There is no doubt that China is already strong enough to say many things in
this world, especially in Mideast. But China is certainly not strong enough
(probably far from enough) to against U.S.'s decision in global issues.
Also, China is not strong enough to put military threaten on U.S. but not
the other way around. So, China can say a lot of somethings not to 
against U.S.'s saying, but probably not a thing to against U.S. 

Yi-Chieh
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject: Re: Whose fault is it anyway?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:22:06 GMT

In article <Bu4Jyu.CrA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xpeng@ATHENA.MIT.EDU writes:
>>Ask a x-USSR citizen, when one could hardly feed
>>himself, how much does freedom of expression mean?    -- D.Sheng --

>A man is fed perfectly.  But he is banned to speak his mind.  He is banned
>to express his dislike or like, his love or hate.  What does the feeding mean
>to that person?

  What does "feeding" means to citizens of a country who don't 
even have the security of their lives -- where they can be arbitrarily
executed or locked up at the rulers' slightest displeasure?  Let
me tell you what it means: pigs.

  However well-fed they may be, they are no better than the pigs  
farmers raised purely for their meat.

  Some pigs may prefer the leisure life at the well-fed farm, and
some pigs may prefer to roam in the wild where they won't be slaughtered
(assuming such place can exist) even though they may need to struggle
to survive from time to time.  Since I am an advocate of individual
rights and individual choice, I have nothing against either kinds 
of pigs for choosing their respective destiny.  But I am absolutely
against forcefully taking pigs who prefer freedom into the slaughter's
farms, and I am even more indignant when pigs in the first category
were laughing at pigs at the second category and demanding that their
slaughter owner take the other pigs into the farms too.

  One would like to think that those of us with human brains would 
have more say in our own destinies.


  Ya-Gui Wei