HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: juvvadi@cstheory.cs.vt.edu (Ramana R. Juvvadi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Dismissal of BJP Ruled States: Strategy ?
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:51:45 GMT
Reply-To: juvvadi@cstheory.cs.vt.edu (Ramana R. Juvvadi)
Organization: Computer Science


In article <92351.121527DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu>, DXS23@psuvm.psu.edu (Deepak Srivastava) writes:

>
>
>Presently what looks like a blow to the democracy may also
>be due to a simple strategic move on the part of Rao and
>his secular backers in Congress, leftists and allied parties.
>The logic goes as follows.
>

< stuff deleted>

>Why then only BJP ruled states ? Because BJP and its state governments were
>the only ones who from time to time have been claiming that they have a
>majority mandate, atleast in the north india, to follow what they have been
>following for the last few years.
>
>

I don't claim to be a political pundit, but I think that BJP is going
to increase its strength in the next elections contrary to the 
forecasts of many pundits on the nets. Many BJP supporters would
view the BM incident as a reasseertion of Hinduism.

You are being fooled, if you read PVNR's indecision as a strategy.
He was known as Mr. Incompetent as a CM of Andhra.

I think PVNR blundered by dismissing MP and Rajasthan's governments.
I am an atheist and I care least for BJP's agenda of Hindutva.
But the dismiossal of state governments in three states is a sure sign
that democracy has not improved, to say the least, since RG/IG's era.

>So for next few weeks let us keep our fingers cross and see which way finally
>the wind blows.
>

I agree, the situation is very fluid now and anything can happen. 
Those who enjoy horse races, wage your bets.

	Will PVNR survive the crisis?

	Will there be mid term elections?

	Will BJP increase its strength or decrease its strength?

	Is the worst over in communal violence?

Ramana
>regards                       Deepak
>
From: sgs1679@usl.edu (Sudhindranath Sira G)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: This is for the "Secularists"
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:29:15 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

In article <1992Dec17.185210.6418@src.honeywell.com> satya@orion.hi-csc.honeywell.com (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>(Sudhindranath Sira G) writes:
>>(Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>>
>>>Well, let us just say that Leander Paes of India gets
>>>to the US Open Tennis Finals and is slated to meet
>>>Andre Agassi. There is no question as to who I shall
>>>root for.
>>>If an Indian who has become an American citizen roots
>>>for Paes, is that treason?
>
>>It is *not* treason, but it may not be liked very much by your
>>American friends. Having come out of India to make a living here,
>>you ought to show more *balance* in your attitudes.
>>
>
>In an attempt to aggrandize myself to my American friends you
                                                           ^^^^
>are asking me to be false to myself. Or are you asking me to
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>present an image that is at variance with my inner feelings?
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

I am asking you to do neither. What I said was that _if_ you
are _able_ to show a more balanced attitude, it would be better for
your own sake.

Of course, one should not present an image that is at variance
with one's "inner feelings", but he/she should also be prepared
to face the consequences.

>Satya Prabhakar
>

--Sudhi.

--
********************   Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath.   **********************
email : sudhi@usl.edu,         Address : USL PO Box 41688,
        sgs@ucs.usl.edu                  Lafayette, LA 70504-1688. USA.
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: nrai@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (neeraj.rai)
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:50:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.212714.905@u.washington.edu> qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.153757.2511@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> nrai@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (neeraj.rai) writes:
>
>>
>>	Sati  is not an important part of Hinduism. It has been a practice
>>	of some Hindus but not all Hindus. You can think it to be
>>	similar to :-
>>
>>	the practice of a Muslim Father showing the community
>>	blood stains on the bedsheet on which his daughter spent first night
>>	after her first marriage to prove to the world that SHE WAS A VIRGIN.
>>
>>
>>	I believe you will tell me that it is not written in Quran. And,
>>	I would believe what you tell me because I have not read Quran
>>	and you may have.
>>
>>	Anyway, So Sati is not a part of Hinduism because 
>>	
>>	IT IS NOT MENTIONED IN ETERNAL BOOKS OF HINDUISM. 
>>
>>
>>	HINDUISIM = SHRUTI   +   SMRITI
>>
>>	SHRUTI is revelation and contains pure philosphy about the world
>>	god, human existence, who we are? What should our purpose be etc.
>>
>        To tell the truth, I do not have sufficient knowledge of idealogies
>and rituals of hinduism, but from what you have stated above, it seems that
>the laws of hinduism and its rituals were changed in the past and are still 
>being modified. But, an essential feature of religous doctrines should be
>that those doctrines are appliciable in all times and only then the 
>completeness of the basic religous principles is assured. SO,  why the
>doctrines of hinduism were modified in various ages?
>
>
>NEWTON...(just curious)
>


	Laws of behaviour were changed but not the doctrine of Hinduism.
Kings in the olden times (I understand) used to seek guidance from religious
saints and this guidance was moral, spiritual etc. In this process certain
laws were influenced by certain religious pundits, who based on their 
interpretation of the religion would guide or influence the king as to what
should be different laws. For example, in one of the Samriti's (probably Manu
Samriti) laws of division of Father's property after his death have been
written. Samritis were used by King's to make laws of State.
 
	Therefore, the religious doctrine of Hinduism is eternal and has
not been changed. It is the laws of behaviour in a society which have been
modified from time to time. In today's context there is no Samriti Hindus
really follow. Instead they follow laws of Indian Constitution. 


	Another example of the validation that religious doctrine has not
changed is the fact that UPANISHADS were revealed to different sages
in different parts of India at different times in history but all tell the
same truth. Some 2000 years ago, Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Geeta has reiterated
the same doctrine in context of real world issues.  

	I hope I have been able to clarify this to you. 
	
Regards,

		NEERAJ RAI
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40833 soc.culture.tamil:4321
From: gopals@astro.umd.edu (N. Gopalswamy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Thiruppaavai Verse 1
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:29:47 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1992Dec15.050023.22336@cs.cornell.edu> srin@cs.cornell.edu (Aravind Srinivasan) writes:

>maargazhi(th) thingaL madhi niRaindha nannaaLaal
>neeraada pOdhuveer pOdhuminO nErizhaiyeer
>seer malgum aayppaadi(ch) chelva(ch) chiRumeergaaL
>koorvEl kodundhozhilan nandhagOpan kumaran
>Eraandha kaNNi yasOdhai iLam singam
>kaar mEni cengaN kadhir madhiyam pOl mugaththaan
>naaraayaNanE namakkE paRai tharuvaan
>paarOr pugazha(p) padindhElOr empaavaay
>\endbox
>
>\c \J
>Oh bejewelled girls (nEr izhaiyeer)! Prosperous (chelva) young girls
>(chiRumeer) of the rich city (seer malgum) of Tiruvoypadi (aaypaadi)! This is
>the month (thingaL) of December/January (margazhi), an auspicious day (nan
>naaL) with brilliant moon (madhi niRaindha). Those of us who want to go
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this should be moon-filled day. the adaimozhi is for the day not for moon!!

>(pOdhuveer) to perform the penance of 'paavai nOnbu' (neeraada), let us go
>(pOdhumeenO). The Lord (naaraayaNan), who was the son (kumaran) of NandagOpan,
>who could give a lot of trouble (kodun thozhilan) to enemies using his sharp
>spear (koor vEl); who was the little lion (iLam singam) of the beautiful
>(Eraandha) eyed (kaNNi) YasOda; who is dark (kaar) skinned (mEni); who has
>beautiful (sen) eyes (kaN); and shines like the sun (kadhir); who has a face
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>(mugaththaan) like (pOl) the moon (madhiyam); will give (tharuvaan) us
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
senkN = perfect eye;
kadhir madhiyam pOl mugaththaan= who has a face like a radiant moon.
kadhir is ray in this context, not Sun!!

>(namakkE) his blessings (paRai). Hey (El)! Let us immerse in water (padindhu)
>and do the penance of 'paavai nOnbu' (Or embaavaai), a practice praised
>(pugazha) by the people of the world (paarOr).
>\j

N. Gopalswamy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40965 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1407
From: mazhar@cs.arizona.edu (Mazhar N Mohammed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: ...... Hyderabadi muslims ........
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:28:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian

In article <1992Dec15.183019.28236@cs.wayne.edu>, uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
# 
# My personal experience is identical.  having lived in many parts of india,
# I venture to state this : the hyderabadi muslims are the most
# agressive and the most unpatriotic muslims in the subcontinent (going by
# the definition of the concepts of Nationnality and Citizenship).

How many hyderabadi muslims do you know and what kind of hyderabadi muslims
have you moved around with ?

# know.  The hyderabadi muslims NEVER WANTED TO BE A PART OF INDIA.
# remember the saradar patel's police operation against the hyderabsd
# state??

Felt the pulse of hyderabadi muslims eh !

# Lastly, they are more proud of their heritage than the lukhnowi muslims
# are : infact, I had such a discussion with a couple of muslims long
# ago on the Hyderabad express (from Hyd via kazipet).  They pooh-pooh
# north indian muslims, and claim themselves to be `better' than all
# other muslims in india.  Clearly, no other region in india has been
# under muslim rule without break, like it has been in HYD.  The nizam-iyat
# (?-naizaam) of Hyd was a island of autonomy even during british rule...

The only thing we have in common with lakhnawi muslims is urdu, and yes
I love my mother tounge and am proud of it. 

# U may be able to get a dog's tail straight, or have the sun rise in the
# west, but getting the Hyd muslim will not accept india, is impossible.

Wow !

# Incidentally, the `11yr old ameena girl' who was married to the geezer
# from saudi arabia, was from Hyd.  All my sources tell me that 40% of all
# muslim girls are married to muslims all over arabia and even egypt.
# Because, the heritage of the hyderabadis is supposedly of high `quality'
# (for the lack if a better word), in the eyes of the muslims world over...

I would really like know your "sources". Yes there are incidents of young 
girls being married off to sheiks. But the reason you give is stupid. 
Because of the evil practice of dowry, the poor people find no other 
way out. Believe me, the sheiks know nothing about hyderabad or its
"heritage". 


Take a break from and hating other people based on their origin or religion
and see how it feels to love everyone. 

Mazhar... ( A Hyderabadi Muslim )
--
From: fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: re:wormallic
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:55:29 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Mandar Mirashi writes:
 >In article <1992Dec12.223820.10853@news2.cis.umn.edu> crick@tsp.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD)) writes:
 >>> >>T'was once a guy named WORMA,
 >>> >>Hate Moslems his only Karma,
 >>> >>He called himself a Hindoo,
 >>> >>And Cow-meat wasn't fundoo
 >>> >>But ate all else without any Sharma
 >>> >>
 >>> >>bk
 >>> >>
 >>> >A hindu fanatic from DEC,
 >>> >His country he sought to protect,
 >>> >From the eaters of meat
 >>> >And the sins they bequeath.
 >>> >But his rantings have an impotent effect.
> >> >
> >> >Ed
 >>>	
 >>>	Worma is a total Jerkoo,
 >>>	At Christians he is smirkoo,
 >>>	Claims to be civilized,
 >>>	But brain is undersized,
 >>>	Has the mantality of a moronic Clerkoo!
 >>>
 >>>	FFT
 >>
 >>Virendra is such a fanatic,
 >>His responses are oft automatic.
 >>When out in the street,
 >>Intolerance to preach,
 >>I hope he's not run down by traffic.
 >>
  >>Ed
 >>
 >>
 >
 >I am new to this group really!
 >Why do you give Mr. Viru "gali"?
 >Cowshit and bulldung all this,
 >So much fun, I don't want to miss!
 >C'mon guys, tell me the whole story!!!    :)

	The shtory is a hodge-podge potpourri,
	Our Viru is a hardcore vedic tapori :)
	He thinks the ancients were chic,
	And his posts always reek,
	Simian intelligence his sole territory!

	FFT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: partha@paul.rutgers.edu (nowhere_man)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: How many of us knew about Ayodhya before 1986 ?
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:36:47 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


well well..sure we can find Rajiv Gandhi (or whoever) at the root..but
did anybody consider the impact of the TV serial RAMAYANA have had on
the mob ???  if there was no such super super hit, would those thugs
succeed to mobilze such a number of people in the name of Rama or
Bajrang???

just thinking...
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40420 soc.culture.pakistan:17996 soc.culture.bangladesh:6650
From: vkodali@cs.utk.edu (VENKATA RAMANA KODALI)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Double standards of Islamic countries
Date: 11 Dec 1992 22:55:00 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Originator: vkodali@duncan.cs.utk.edu

The following appeared in misc.news.southasia 

>Source  : The CGI
>Date    : Dec 9, 1992
>Country : Pakistan and India
>
>* Organization of Islamic Countries regret Indian government's failure
>
>New Delhi - Dec 9: Incidents of arson, killing and distruction of Hindu
>temples in protest against the demolition of Babri mosque considerably
>lessened in parts of the Islamaic world Wednesday, while the OIC
>regretted "The failure of Indian government to take appropriate
>measure to protect the shrine."

	In a statement at the U.N, the OIC urged the U.N.General Secretary 
>Boutros Ghali to use his moral and political authority to ensure safety of 
>muslims in India.

	The OIC has favoured raising of the issue at the U.N and at
>the OIC commission meet on human rights in Geneva, while Pakistan has
>suggested tabling a joint resolution in the current session of the
>assembly, PTI reported.

	Later, when asked by the press persons whether the OIC also 
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>condemned the violence in Pakistan and other countries and distruction of 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hindu temples following the Babri masjid incident at Ayodhya, the OIC 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>delegates said they did not consider that at the meeting.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It is clear from the above mentioned news that the Islamic countries
have double standards. One for Muslims and one from Hindus. These fanatics
have no moral right to comment or characterize the situation in India.

Venky
vkodali@cs.utk.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar)
Subject: Re: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:48:49 GMT

In article <Bz5I1n.5uE@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.202832.119630@marshall.wvnet.edu> yea027@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>>In Response to an article on the Indian net:
>>
>>Please tell me which temples Muhammad broke? I really am not familiar with
>>this.  Muhammad broke IDOLS so to get people to worship the one ALLAH that has
>>no partners.  Idol worship takes people from the true path of GOD Allah 
>>and takes them to polytheism and thinking that a statue can help them.
>>
>
>Actually there is a parallel to this! We have one dravidian racist known as
>EVR and his followers who went and broke the idols in temples. But they
>were doing it to show their hatred for Brahmins. Was this idol breaking
>by mohammad some sort of hate release exercise of him and his followers.
>But if allah is one, why did not mohammad consider that all idols are
>nothing bu t allah. What is this excuse that you are offereing for
>mohammad who went and broke idols.
>
>>A Mosque is a holy house of Allah.  When Muhammad went to the Ka'ba, he DID not
>>distroy the Ka'ba that housed the mutliple 'gods' but rather tore down the
>>idols that stood in it.
>>
>>

The "Kaaba"(the cubical structure) was built by Prophet Ibrahim and 
his son Ismael for the worship of the one true God. It was built as 
a symbol of monotheism. But in the succeeding centuries, the people 
deviated from the Abrahimic (Islamic) religion and placed the idols in the 
Kaaba. So it was logical that the house of Allah be cleansed of the objects
which are in total contradiction of monotheism, the belief in the unity of
God. It is very obvious that you failed to understand the concept of 
the unity of God. How can a multitude of idols be considered as Allah.
Its ridiculous! 

However I would like to make it very clear that Islam does not sanction
the destruction of the places of worship of other religion. In the case of
the "Kaaba" it wasn't the place of worship for anyone other than Allah so
it had to be cleared of the idols which are opposed to the concept of unity of
God.

Towards understanding each other,

Zafar.
>..kt
From: sankar@unix386.Convergent.COM (Sankar Ramamoorthi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: packed lunch
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:37:00 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Unisys/Convergent, San Jose, CA


A lady is ready to make chapatis for whoever needs them. The chapatis are 
soft, thin and freshly made everyday. 6 for a dollar. The rotis will be made
in 100% vegetable oil or corn oil, and will be covered with home made
makhkhan ghee. Orders will be taken on a daily, weekly or monthly basis.

The service will start on Monday, 19th October. For details contact the
Desais at 408-261-2101, between 7:30 to 10:00. 

1012 Helen Ave. #3
Sunnyvale
CA 94086

Orders for parties, snacks  or dinners are also welcome.

I'm posting this for a friend. Please do not reply to my email
address.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: godura@dobie.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: "...... to castrate the Hindus ..."
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:17:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.055007.13342@u.washington.edu> qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.044340.22869@udel.edu> godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura) writes:
>>>
>>of the religion.
>>The notion that what was written by some wise man hundreds of years ago,
>>will be valid for all time is foolish.There will be hundreds of muslims
>                              ^^^^^^^^
>
>  I appreciate this provision of  information about hinduism, your 
>misundertanding of Islam and the "nice" remarks about glorious Quran(see
>the sentence pointed, below). I was rather expecting an informative reply than
>the criticism and insults since my posting was simply an inquiry. Even though,

There was no criticism of the Quran in my post. Read it carefully. I, in
fact, said it was written by a wise man, and was probably relevant in
the whole when written. What I criticised was the blind stubbornness
with which islamic societies argue that the every word in the book is
relevant today, down to the last period.

>I can give the answers to your questions as related to Islamic rules, I cannot

I would definitely be interested in the answers.

>do it now due to the lack of time. But if i do, I would be "purely" informative
>Yeah, I touched the topic, but I did not find flaws.
>
>BTW, Quran was not written by some "man".
AHHHHHHHH ! I will not argue about that with you.

Well, was it written by a woman ? !! If not, then I wouldn't like to
talk about the other alternatives. ;-)
>
>>that will cry themselves hoarse that the Quran is the answer to all
>>problems in society for ever more. But look at it yourself. Are there no
>>banks in Isalmic countries ? Don't they charge interest ? What is it
>>that your religion says about inteest? 
>>Look at the position of women in islamic societies ? Oh they are fine,
>>you will say. Who's asking you ? I would like a muslim woman to answer
>>that.
>
>
>--> Do you cut off the hands and ears and balls or whatever of thieves, as
>                         
>>is directed in the Quran ?
>>Look at the middle east. They have an embarrasment of wealth, and they
>>are still such backward societies. It is because islam is so inflexible
>>.. or rather, the mullahs who run islamic societies, and bestow upon
>>themselves the undisputed right to interpret the Quran, are so
>>inflexible.
>
>>-- 
>>Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Dilip Kumar
Date: 12 Dec 1992 09:19:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

>>> I always wonder, why few muslims uses hindu name for gaining social
>>> respect, social acceptance in the indian society..As Dulip Kumar who is

	What about Santosh Kumar and Derpan who were famous movie
	actors in Pakistan. They were both muslims. I wonder if they
	cared more about gaining "social respect, socail acceptance in
        the indian society" :-)


>>> a true muslim but to get an identity he goes with hindu name..
>>>
>>> But that seems a good sign for developing harmony between muslims and hindus
>>> our muslim brothers may help us on this issue.   
>>>
>>>
>> That's the stupidest thing I've heard. How hiding yourself be good???
>> 
>> 
> Rakesh Patel

>
>ANY movie star, including Indian (muslim) ones get names from their producers
>directors or managers, this is for marketing purposes, not HIDING purposes.
>It is absolutely inane to think that he is trying to hide himself, when if you
>listen to him speak it only takes you 5 seconds to figure out he's a muslim.
	
>
>His urdu is absolutely amazing.

Your logic that Dilip Kumar's "absolutely amazing" Urdu means  he is a
Muslim is not all that correct.
If you hear the President of Cleveland's Bazm-e-Adab (an Urdu Poetry Club),
you will realize that his Urdu is even more "absolutely amazing". And for
your info he is an Indian Hindu.
And by the way, Dilip Kumar was born in what is now Pakistan
and is a native Pashtoo speaker. Urdu is not his mother tongue.
 

>
>Stop trying to build more barriers between hindus and muslims. There is enough
>trouble in our country already. 

>Vidur Sood.

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio