HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:41:24 GMT

In article <-1367699967snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>What do any of you know of the serpent?

 THE serpent? Gee, I think he drinks decaf coffee. That's all I know.
From: ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Power (a reply of sorts)
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:54:32 GMT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:
> 
> >I appreciate your input. It appears that there exists a fundamental
> >difference between NewAge StarHawkian philosophy and ancient Germanic
> >heathen tradition concerning the concept and use of power.
> >[quotations deleted]
> 
> I'm surprised I'm the only one the talk about this; then again, maybe
> I'm not . . .
> 
> I consider the New Age to be mostly a marketing phenomenon that makes
> people pay exorbitant prices for perfectly common spikes of dogtooth
> spar and clear quartz and that's about it.  It's there to make money.
> Some "New Age" philosophies are kind of neat, but I'm skeptical of the
> movement as a whole.  I guess it depends on how you define New Age.
> 
> I do, however, think Starhawk is king of neat and always a good read.  I
> disagree with her on some fundamental ideas, but I like her point of
> view and value her work greatly.
> 
> Blessings,
> Janis 
> 

Well said both of you. I enjoy this kind of dicourse and encourage it. My
personal view of Starhawk as a scholar is not very high, I'm afraid. Though
she does present some interesting philosophical viewpoints. All in all
interesting reading whether useful or not.

 Good Health and Good Reading!
 Ymir
From: ted@barrister (Standing on the brink, I pause for reflection.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:03:00 GMT
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <80734@ut-emx.uucp>ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson) writes:

>> [Venomous screed attacking Ailsa deleted]

Idiot.

					Badger
                                        channelling clay bond...
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:21:38 GMT

marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
: >
: >Well, by this definition, Z. Budapest is not a feminist.  I wonder how she would
: >like to be told that.  Coni, you are imposing *your* idea of feminism on all
: >of feminism.  WenD made it very clear that sie was not referring to all of 
: 
: Unless I'm mistaken, she just said that feminism and man-hating can be 
: separated. She never said the two couldn't cohabit in the same person. Ergo,
: Z.Budapest can = feminist AND = man-hater, but one doesn't necessarily entail
: the other. :->

And, from my experiences/conversations with Z.Budapest, she is not a man-hater.
She certainly has no tolerance for chauvanists or people who are patronizing.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: tarot decks
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.000739.14091@ncsu.edu> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>In article <92273.153544JD3415A@auvm.american.edu> Jessica A. Darago <JD3415A@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>>The Crowley Deck ...
>>is the only deck I've encountered that has
>>the Princess cards instead of Pages, and my card is Crowley's Princess of Cups.
>
>Barbara Walker's uses Princesses also.  It's apparently quite modernized.

As does Ellen Cannon-Reed's The Witches Tarot (plug). 

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.religion.sabaean
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Power (a reply of sorts)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:40:44 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:

>>I appreciate your input. It appears that there exists a fundamental
>>difference between NewAge StarHawkian philosophy and ancient Germanic
>>heathen tradition concerning the concept and use of power.
>>[quotations deleted]

>I'm surprised I'm the only one the talk about this; then again, maybe
>I'm not . . .

>I consider the New Age to be mostly a marketing phenomenon that makes
>people pay exorbitant prices for perfectly common spikes of dogtooth
>spar and clear quartz and that's about it.  It's there to make money.
>Some "New Age" philosophies are kind of neat, but I'm skeptical of the
>movement as a whole.  I guess it depends on how you define New Age.

>I do, however, think Starhawk is king of neat and always a good read.  I
>disagree with her on some fundamental ideas, but I like her point of
>view and value her work greatly.

Starhawk is distinctly not Newage.  She is vehemently opposed to the blaming
the victim which is so central to Newage thinking.  Please do not confuse
the two.  She is also distinctly not sweetness-and-light.  Please note that
one of her books is titled _Dreaming the Dark_.  She is very fond of the
dark.  Anyone who is preaching sweetness-and-light is not "Starhawkian".

(Yes, I am very fond of Starhawk's work.  It has been from her that I gained
the courage to really face the dark.)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: networking
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:14:29 GMT
Summary: Circle Sanctuary
Keywords: help


With all the new people asking for whereabouts of pagan groups
and activities in their area, I thought it might be useful to
post this. There is a group called Circle Sanctuary in Mt. Horeb
Wisconsin headed up by Selena Fox. They publish a Circle Network
Bulletin and Newsletter as well as a booklet called Circle Guide
to Pagan Groups. I have found this to be an interesting and 
useful way of networking and as a reference for people in other
areas looking for kindred spirits. For one or more of their
publications or membership information call or write.

Circle Sanctuary, PO Box 219, Mt. Horeb, WI 53572 USA
(608) 924-2216

I am in no way affiliated..just thought some may be interested.
It covers groups and periodicals in the US as well as other countries
although the listings could use some updating from what I have seen
here on the net..some of you might even want to write and tell
them about your your own group, BBS, or whatever so you will be
listed as well.

Blessings
al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Keywords: do it thineself
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 10:43:43 EDT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:

> In article <gBXmRB2w165w@eagles.uucp> ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir
> Thunarsson) writes:
>
> >Ailsa!
>
> >  Unfortunately, you are showing yourself to be the bigot. A highly u
> >and spiteful one at that. LAY OFF! It's unbecoming and achieves absol
> >purpose (except maybe to fuel your own vanity and prejudice).
>
> Yeah, right! Ailsa - don't you realise how *unladylike* it is to point
> out other peoples mistakes? How arrogant to present your own opinions!
> Don't you know your *place*! And darling, it's so *unfeminine*
>
oh lawsy me!  i am SO sorry, darlings!  here, let me get my fan, and
maybe janis can lace my stays on, so i can get PROPAHLY dressed!  ah
have SEEN the error of my ways!

> <chortle>
>
> <grin>

*chuckle*
>
> Ymir, try reading ailsa-'s post again - with your head on. Backing up
> your compatriots right or wrong is all very well but doesn't half make
> you look foolish in public.
>
nice to know someone actually read what i wrote.

> Particularly when you back up your paltry arguments with mere name
> calling, like you accuse ailsa- of doing.
>
> Sure ailsa- gets rude on occasion - but unlike you, she does it with
> STYLE.
>
> Hugs, ailsa-
>
hugs back atcha!  B)

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Newest Baby Pagan..
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:10:45 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin


Go maire tu' i bhfad, a Dhonal!  Beannacht.

(That's congratulations and blessings, BTW...)

Will we see this baby at CMA?  Or is that too soon to bring him out?
We'll be bringing our little one.

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: night and winter
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:25:25 GMT
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: blchapma@c00000-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <1992Sep29.230255.28457@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
|> electric@meltdown.chi.il.us (Rick Martinez) writes:
|> > My favourite weather.....Rain.  There's nothing like a good electrical storm
|> > to get my spirits up.  I feel closer to nature when out in the rain.  Why?
|> > Because nature is asserting itself and becoming the key aspect of every persons
|> > day who is in the area of the rain.
|> 
|> I, too, love the rain.  When we first moved to the San Jose area, the
|> winters were plenty rainy enough -- people were talking about how there was
|> sooooo much rain and they hadn't seen that much rain in years.  I felt right
|> at home.  Then, we started this drought, and I find that I've become HOMESICK.
|> For a couple YEARS, I didn't feel very homesick.  Then there wasn't enough
|> rain, and I started feeling it.

I especially like *freezing* rain!!!!  (oh, the bite! the bite!)
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: unixcorn@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu (Madelyn T. Gould)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scents
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:32:03 GMT
Organization: DeKalb College, Clarkston, Ga.



On Dittany of Crete  (Origanum dictamus)

A relative of culinary oregano and marjoram; dittany is a 1 foot tall,tender
perennial.  It has somewhat fuzzy round grey-green leaves about the size of
a U.S. penny and a milder version of the distinctive oregano scent.

The herbalist Gerard
described it "At the top of the branches grow small spikie ears
or scaly aglets, hanging by little small stems ... amongst which scales
there do come forth small flowers like the flowers of wheat, which
having past the knop is full of small seed."

Venus healed the wounds of Aeneas with leaves of dittany;
In the Aeneid it is mentioned:

"Venus did cull from Cretan Ida's crest
Some Dittany with downy leaf and stem and flowers 
  of purple bloom,
A simple known to mountain goats,
When to their haunches clings an arrow gone astray."

It is not one of the most common herbs found but can
be obtained through better nurseries.

The other plant mentioned  Dictamnus Albus  (Bastard Dittany, Fraxinella)
is also a perennial.  It is better known as "The Gas Plant" as it
exudes a volatile oil which can be ignited (very briefly) on warm,
still nights.  It has a strong lemony odor and grows 2-3 feet tall.

The Sunset Western Garden Book has growing information for both.

Bless the work,

another Cancer heard from     7/11/52   11:16 pm pdt

-- 

unixcorn  (alias Madelyn Gould) @dekalb.DC.PeachNet.EDU

There's a unicorn in the garden and he's eating a lily.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Pagan Cussin' (was: re: who do you kneel to when you pray?)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:48:47 GMT

In article <1a108bINN9qa@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood) writes:
>
>	"Jesus ate a can of beans!" -- lifted from a Steven King novel

Then there's the ever popular "Cheese and crackers! Got all muddy!"

And don't forget "Frack!" and "Felgercarb!" from Battlestar Galactica.

Bb,

Corun


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    | To sit with a pretty woman for an hour seems like
  Dark Horde by birth  | a minute. To sit on a hot stove for a minute seems
    Moritu by choice   | like an hour. That's relativity. --  A. Einstein
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tarot traditions
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:01:45 GMT
	<7606@monmouth.edu> <1992Sep29.060024.1932@wixer.cactus.org>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: wizard@wixer.cactus.org's message of 29 Sep 92 06:00:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.060024.1932@wixer.cactus.org> wizard@wixer.cactus.org (John P Onorato) writes:
   In article <7606@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
  =>
  =>	I've been hearing some interesting things lately about the tarot..
  =>
  =>	As an example:  One friend of mine INSISTS that you must NEVER buy
  =>your own deck.  It's okay to give somebody the money, and get THEM to buy it
  =>for you (how this isn't the same as them buying it and you then buying
  =>it from them I haven't figured out, yet.) and that after you get the deck,
  =>you must sleep with it under your pillow for three days.  Has anybody else
  =>heard of such traditions?
  =>	
   
If you'll excuse the expression- what a load of shit.
I'm sorry- however much tradition there is with the tarot, and there's
much of it, it's the superstitions which kill me the most.
It's one thing to do something which helps you get
acquainted with your deck (or even the Idea of a deck)- but a lot
of the "traditions"....

Take for instance what I was told when I bought my deck- a Crowley
deck. Supposedly, one must burn the black card with the hexagram
before using it, or all sorts of bugaboos will come for you.
Some say it was a curse devised by Crowley. I wouldn't be surprised
if he did it only to see how gullible some people are.

Sleeping with a deck under your pillow is a fine way to get used to
the idea of having a deck (I did it myself).
In that sense the deck may work better for you, as you may not be so 
uptight about it. Getting someone to buy it for you though seems much
like the card-burning- completely unnecessary.

The best way to attune yourself to the cards IMHO, is to handle them,
handle them w/o superstitious fear (although *real* fear does
sometimes have occaision to arise- but that's to do with introspection)
Learn about the symbology, let it all become familiar,
and always remember that it's YOU who uses the deck- the deck does not
use you.

Finally working this bug from my butt,
Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: tarot decks
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:07:39 GMT

In article <92273.153544JD3415A@auvm.american.edu> Jessica A. Darago <JD3415A@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>The Crowley Deck ...
>is the only deck I've encountered that has
>the Princess cards instead of Pages, and my card is Crowley's Princess of Cups.

Barbara Walker's uses Princesses also.  It's apparently quite modernized.

-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
From: fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: noclevelandshowrats
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:51:06 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

i am majorly bummed out.  it looks like the 3 shows i mentioned in cleveland
are not going to pan out.  seems that, though the theater owner had cleared
not showing the movies with the movie company months ago, they waited until 2
weeks before the event to inform him that they would have to have x amount of
money, 25% of what the movie would have brought in based on its runs
elsewhere.  the figure x was just too large for him to afford.  

what i think is bad here is not so much that they wanted the money, but that
they waited till 2 weeks before the deal, when they knew about it long before
that.  at any rate, i won't get to meet any cleveland pagans who might have
turned up.  bummer.  poor zalla is worst off; she had spent some significant
$ arranging the thing, calling people.

so, don't show up at the theater on the 18th 25th or nov.1st.  we won't be
there.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: another poem
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:14:13 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

usr77@pil.UUCP writes:

> By: cortese #0 @skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) USEnet      
>  
> > After hearing so many net men personally flame me for all the times they
> > got turned down for a date because they didn't make enough money or
> > drive a nice enough car, I have a real hard time taking this seriously.
> 
> As a member of the collective class "net.men", I am completely confused
> as to why ANYONE would personally flame you over a woman who didn't
> have to be you turning him down over a date. Have I missed something
> obvious or what? 

Ahhh, but it did happen, here in this group, not very many month's ago at 
all..... 

There's an incredible amunt of what I call 'sex pain' that is drummed 
into our psyche's by this society. Janis was 'venting' her sex pain, 
which incited several net.males to vent their sex pain back at her, as 
though she had no rights to her pain because they, too, had suffered.

Later, Bill
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:10591 alt.feminism:2038
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Lady Starhawk??? <Re: a novice asks>
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 18:00:56 PDT

I checked my copy, you are correct, the "Lady" title is NOT used, my FAQ
is revised effective immediately (went offline to revise it for a couple
of seconds)... thanks for spotting this.

Blessings,
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
(slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary) There are no fnords in this sig file.
Mail to me should be sent to:       |   autoreply to address I posted this
alizard@tweekco.uucp                |   from only if you want to wait a
boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM     |   solstice or two for my answer.
!uunet!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard  |                Kallisti!

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: another poem
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:57:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.233041.25481@ncsu.edu> blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN) writes:

>|> I relate to that in a big way.  As girls we're taught that it's not good to
>|> be assertive, independent, confident about our opinions.  So who wants to be
>|> a girl if you can't be strong in your sense of self?

>Sometimes I would lie in bed at night and wonder why (in my Christian
>days) god didn't make me into a boy.  I'd thought time and time again
>that I should have been born a boy simply because my interests
>were "boy" things.  Fortunately, I've been enlightened since then.

I also felt often that it was unfair that I was born a girl.

Janis and I were talking about how invisible we sometimes feel in groups of men.
Some of them act as if unless you speak in a bass voice, wear slacks, and
have that appendage between your legs, the words that come out of your mouth
haven't been spoken.  I wrote a poem just now about invisibility (but not
precisely that kind, the poem didn't work out that way):

 
Feeling Invisible
 
When I was a child,
I felt invisible.
My parents didn't touch me
or take joy in me.
I retreated to my room
and talked to myself.
 
I usually felt visible at school;
I was quick with answers
(in spite of my shyness)
and got mostly As.
But I had few friends.
When I'd bring my report cards home,
Mom would say,
"You did okay."
 
After I started dating,
after the flush of infatuation would wear away,
I felt invisible all over again.
I'd talk to my lovers and get the same response
my Mom gives me when I reveal something deeply personal...
silence.
But I also expected them to give me something they couldn't:
a sense of self.
 
I still feel invisible at times,
especially in crowds;
I'm still shy and soft-spoken.
And it still hurts not to be noticed.
But now I can give myself
some of the love I missed when I was growing up
and I can consciously try to assert my visibility.

Barclay Blanchard
September 28, 1992


>Nothing really wrong with a soft-spoken voice.  There is a silent strength
>with those who are "quiet types".  It's more the actions of some women
>or what they say that bothers me rather than the voice tone.  Well, I'm
>not perfect by a long shot myself.  I can think of innumerable situations
>when I wished I'd spoken up, but didn't.

Yeah, I relate.  

We had a secretary at work once who insisted that any woman who didn't keep
her nails filed and polished (which she did at work) was just lazy.  I wanted
to punch the bitch.
 

-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
From: lyt@aber.ac.uk (Lynda Ann Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Oh Bother!
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:09:10 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Ailsa Murphy says:
>Oh Bother!
and wants to know who else does.

If it's not Miss Manners it ought to be!

Blessed Be
Lynda