HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:33:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.152818.12165@ugle.unit.no>, njb@iok.unit.no (Nils Jacob Berland) writes:

> I got a MSR Whisperlite in the US this spring --- the shop told me that it would
> burn what we in Norway call "parafin" (Kerosene?).  Needless to say --- it
> doesn't....
 
> Otherwise I have to order the special heater tube for the Whisperlite
> International...

I got a chance to use the Internationale on kerosene last weekend, and
I'm not at all impressed with it as a kerosene stove.  

For one thing, MSR's priming wick that lets you prime with the kerosene
from the fuel bottle instead of alcohol makes for *very* messy, sooty
priming.  And the manual specifically recommends against using alcohol
or priming paste.

Secondly, it was always suspenseful whether the long minutes of 
exceptionally dirty, smoky, sooty priming would get the generator hot
enough to vaporize the kerosene.  The generator on the Whisperlites
is offset somewhat from the priming cup & wick, and the priming flame
seems to want to play everywhere but over the generator tube.  
This isn't much of a problem when using gasoline, but it's critical
with kerosene.

Once lit, it did perform according to advertised specifications.  

By the way, I have used kerosene stoves before, and am used to the 
the smell and other drawbacks.  They bring back pleasant
childhood memories of Grandma's farmhouse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece		
Not an Intel spokesman  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rkohli@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (RRRATION MY RRRUM)
Subject: Back Packing in the Mt Massive, Mt Elbert areas
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:57:00 GMT

Greetings all, 
    We have decided to do some backpacking in the Mt Massive, Mt Elbert areas,
and camp in the one of the camp grounds around Leadville, Colorado. 

I was looking for suggestions, opinions and experiences of y'all in those 
areas. 

Thanks for your time.
:-) ranjan 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     	      The vain attempt to avoid errors by inactivity.
                               Ranjan Kohli.
                       Student Software Consultant,
                          University Of Oklahoma.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lousy weather we're having...
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:44:21 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
> Yep. At 8000 feet (Green Mountain Falls, Col. -- my HOUSE, not the 
> backcountry!), we had snow on June 1. Yeccho.

We had 96 degrees on June 1.  Go ahead, complain.  I'm not listening.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: liability for trip organizers?
Keywords: persuasion
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:14:06 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I wrote:
>
> In my admittedly limited experience, it's the neophyte you
> talked into going who resentfully holds you responsible
> for anything that goes wrong.  Even these folks
> are lawsuits
> waiting to happen.

Argle bargle fassbazz.

What I meant to write, and thought I did write, was

  In my admittedly limited experience, it's the neophyte you
  talked into going who resentfully holds you responsible
  for anything that goes wrong.  Even when these folks don't
  actually sue you, their grudges and upsets can spoil a
  trip, and can destroy a perfectly good friendship forever.

---
Joel Hanes
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cantor@spot.Colorado.EDU (Evan Cantor)
Subject: Re: long pants/shorts
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:26:40 GMT

I have used and continue to use those Banana Republic "Convertibles" for
backpacking; I've had them "taken out" to fit my bulging belly as well.  They`regreat and if you can afford $60 for a pair of pants, well worth it.  Saves you
the trouble of changing your pants!  However, you do have to take off most
hiking boots to fit the pantslegs on and off...but that's no big deal to me.
The zippers have never bothered me; don't even notice'm.  They are of cotton
fabric, so longjohns are required to go under them at elevation even in the
summer (for those cool nights); you might prefer packing a pair of shorts and
a pair of heavier pants instead.  I like the options with the convertibles and
at elevation in Colorado and most parts of the west north of the desert/canyons,you need longjohns anyway for cold nights.  I give the "Convertibles" a Grade A.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Re: Ancient Forest, SALMON ALERT
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 09:06:36 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul24.021530.3349@synapse.bms.com> venard@bms.com writes:
>
>I'm an Internet folk, not a racist, and I have no problem with the
>observation in question. Ever notice when there is a stranding of
>whales or dolphin on a U.S. coast, people come out to help the poor
>cetaceans as much as they can? Well, elsewhere, in say, certain Pacific
>island nations to the east of us ...

Hey!  When did Case Western open a satellite campus in China?!  :-)

Ken
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: liability for trip organizers?
Keywords: suasion
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:07:38 GMT

In article <95n102QX1bxg01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
(Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>my own rule of thumb for trip organizing:

>   If you have to talk them into it, don't.

It's a good man who knows his limitations.
		--Harry Callahan (Magnum Force).
It contrasts to our readers asking about big volcanos or rock climbing.

>Eager, competent, motivated people don't need to have their
>fears assuaged -- they ask information questions, rather than
>for reassurance.

Perhaps some of the finest words said in this group.

>   "Well, if you have serious doubts about the trip,
>    it's probably better if you don't go."

>In my admittedly limited experience, it's the neophyte you
>talked into going who resentfully holds you responsible
>for anything that goes wrong.
>Even these folks are lawsuits waiting to happen.

This man knows his limitations.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ST402676@brownvm.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Goin' to Alaska
Organization: Brown University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:03:58 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------

My wife, kid, and I are going to Alaska this summer too.  Seems quite
a few netfolk are!  I am curious - how many others are planning trips
to Alaska this summer?
					Rick Spanbauer
 ---------------------------------------------------------
I just got back three weeks ago. Climbed Mt. Bona and Churchill in
Wrangel-St Elias range. We also got to put in a little hike near
Anchorage, part of the Iditarod trail. Seems to me you can't go wrong
hiking in Alaska! (ok. I'll admit I was kind of miserable at some of
the colder, tireder moments on Bona, but it was worth it, and Churchill
was truly fine).

-tamar more        tmore@nutrno.physics.brown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brent@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Brent Kennedy)
Subject: Looking for Information on Mt. Adams  
Organization: mikejag (mike) is a private system in Vancouver, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:58:47 GMT


I'm looking for anyone who might know about some of the routes on Mt. Adams
(Washington State).  Especially of interest would be if you have any idea of
what the glacier condition is late in the season (Aug/Sept).

Thanks.


-- 
#     Brent Kennedy	      | The disease of "Trauma" is responsible for   #
#                             | more years of potential life lost than any   #
# brent@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca  | other disease, yet it's also the most        #
#		              | preventable, does that make any sense??      #
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: sustained yield forestry
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 06:02:39 GMT

Oh yeah, we are back to this topic......
Dan Hepner out there with his "theory of clear cutting?"
Yeah, a lot of people are willing to philosophize about this topic,
but few understand the problems or issues.  Q: "name the prisms used to
determine the board-feet of an area. Extra credit: explain how they work."
Hepner even worked at a mill and he could not answer that question.

Well I think we need to quickly mow down all the trees, make the
Earth completely paved at 68 F, take a few prime specimens (with animals)
and blast them in orbit between Saturn and Jupiter under the care of American
Airlines, a few small robots, etc.......  The quicker the better, right?!

P.S. Ilana if you are reading this a package is on the way to NCAR.
The enlargements: I need back (the Type Rs don't have the colors of the
original Kodachromes (tm)).  3 smaller packages for you, Smythe,
and Stuart.  Mail about them later. Recreation, eh?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: Four season tent recomendations.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:39:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.021128.2686@mitem.com> unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger) writes:
>I'm shopping for a four season tent.  Initially I'll use it climbing
>in New Zealand.  Then I'll use it for winter trips in the Cascades and
>other north American ranges.  I already have a lightweight summer
>tent, so am really looking for just a winter, really really bad
>weather, tent.
>
>Some of my requirements are: under 9 lbs, should be able to cook from
>in my sleeping in the tent, vestibule for boots and other gear is
>nice.  Doesn't have to be huge, but the ability to fit three tightly
>is nice.
>
>I've been to the local stores and generated the following list of
>possibilities.  All are between 7 and 9 lbs and between $400 and $500.
>I've listed them along with my impressions.  Has anyone had experience
>with any of these?
>
[...some deletion...]
>Noall, 8lbs, two small vestibule.
>
>    Made by a small tent manufacturer.  Two well though out
>    entrances, good ventilation.  Small vestibule but should be
>    able to cook from the door.
>Tom Unger.

I've been using the Noall Mountaineer for a few years and like it pretty
well. The tent is very easily set up (a primary requirement in my book),
tight (quiet in wind - haven't had the occasion to real test it in very
heavy snow loading), and fairly roomy. It is pretty well ventilated, if
you make sure you open the vents. I am not particularly happy about the size
of the vestibules - they are just a bit small to cook in (my Svea 123 just
about torched the fly once), and too small for my pack. Ok to set boots out
in. It is listed as a three-person tent, and I've had three large-ish men
in it a couple times - very tight, but you can do it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Datta, Dayadhvam. Damyata.                                                
		Shantih	shantih	shantih
  --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land                                            
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (... .. ...)
Subject: Re: Dutch Ovens in the backcountry
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (... .. ...)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:02:44 GMT
Keywords: cookbooks, favorite recipes, and tips

In article <13649@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.185924.7119@pbhyg.PacBell.COM> smmyers@PacBell.COM (... .. ...) writes:
>|In article <1992Jul20.224125.24856@src.dec.com> reimer@src.dec.com (Dean Reimer) writes:
>|>I use to bury the dutch oven under the fire before I started it.  You can bake
>|>apple pies, cakes, ect.
>

    [[[ Much backcountry grub deleted ]]]

>|
>|     Don't forget Backcountry Pizza.  Mmmmmm.
>|
>Does the Domino's "Delivered in 30 minutes or it's Free" guarentee still
>apply in the backcountry?


     Only West of the Rockies.... ;-)

Sean
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:20:04 -0400 
From: Alon Dominitz <ad2k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Distribution: usa

Excerpts from netnews.rec.backcountry: 28-Jul-92 Chevron - People Do?
Jeffrey Mulligan@eos.arc (621)

> So my question is, do you think this is just a bunch of BS, or is
> Chevron (or any other oil company) actually significantly more
> environmentally responsible that the others?

Almost every oil company spends some money on natural preservation, and
they all spend money on compliance with environmental laws.  However,
they also all spend even more money _telling_ people about their great
environmental efforts.  I would say BS is putting it lightly.


-----------------------------------------
Alon Dominitz
ad2k@andrew.cmu.edu		(summer '92)
a.domini@marvin.cooper.edu	(school year)
From: dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:35:44 GMT
Organization: C&CS, Deakin University

In article <1992Jul17.152818.12165@ugle.unit.no>, njb@iok.unit.no (Nils Jacob Berland) writes:

> I got a MSR Whisperlite in the US this spring --- the shop told me that it
> would burn what we in Norway call "parafin" (Kerosene?).  Needless to say
> --- it doesn't. So I've tried almost everything and even phoned a chemical
> company to get something close to "Coleman Fuel" or "White Gas". My
> question is simply: Can anybody tell me what "Coleman Fuel" or "White Gas"
> is so that I can tell the chemical company here in Norway what to look for.

  o  "White Gas" = "White Spirit" = "Coleman Gas" = "Shellite".
     A liquid petroleum product, mainly octane, with other hydrocrabons
     present.   Shell (maker of Shellite) would be worth trying.

  o  "Petrol" = "Gasoline"
     A standard fule for internal combustion engines.  Composition as
     above, plus other additives designed for use in engines (but NOT in
     stoves).

  o  "Parafin" = "Kerosene"
     Another liquid petroleum product, with heavier hydrocarbons than the
     above (hence less volatile, so it needs a different version of the
     Whisperlite).
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: sustained yield forestry
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:07:59 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <Jul27.223823.75109@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.060239.6582@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|As I see it, we can either let Bill Clinton pave it over with massive
|highway projects, or let Bush drill it full of oil-seeking holes.
 
Heard on the tube yesterday...
It's true that Bush is the "environmental president".  Since he's been in
office a lot more people have homes outdoors.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:50:16 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Jul22.202435.21164@lclark.edu> miller@lclark.edu (John Miller) writes:

>What I was asking in my post was whether anyone out there had an explanation
>or expose' of Patterson's film...  It was not a bear on its hind legs.  Its
>stride was too upright for an ape or gorilla.

>Film: Sasquatch walking away, left-to-right crossing a stream bed in the
>fall.  Muscle movement clearly visible under the hair/fur.  Bigfoot turns
>its head and right shoulder to look back, exposing its chest/breast.
>Disappears into brush.


Well, I know nothing about this particular film so I have no idea if
this guy might have wanted to cheat or not.  However it would be
easy to fake such a thing.  In most films there is no good indicator
of size so all you have to do is get a human appropriately made up
and film him in the woods.  Hollywood has been doing similar things
for decades.  All you have to do is use a good costume or make-up
and adjust the size of the props to make an actor look either big or
small.  Then of course you see the muscles move just like they
should - you are looking at the actors real muscles under whatever
was used to fake the skin and hair.

I'm not saying the film was necessarily made this way, I'm just
saying it is possible.  This possibility would make such a film less 
than perfect evidence.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Sporty car for canoeing???
From: moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:07:41 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: moynes_r

Hi:

   I'm in the market for a sporty car, but I want to make sure that the one I
pick can also be used for my outdoor activities.  It has to be able to carry a
canoe, bikes and skiis (not all at once, but with the LOUSY WEATHER WE'RE
HAVING, who knows :).  Here is the list of contenders (in no particular order):

Acura Integra
Saturn Coupe
Eagle Talon/Plymouth Laser RS
Geo Storm Gsi (Isuzu Impulse in the U.S.)
Ford Probe

I expect that bike and/or ski racks are readily available for all of the cars
on my list, so the ability to carry a canoe is most important.  I would
appreciate hearing from anyone who has used one of these cars to carry a canoe,
or anyone who knows why it would be a bad idea to attempt it with a particular
car.  I'm especially hoping to hear from the Eagle camp because I've seen a few
leftover '91 Tsi turbo all-wheel-drive Talons advertised recently at prices
near that of a base model '92 (sounds like the ultimate SUV to me!!!), even if
they happen to be pukey-green or some other hideous color.  I do read this
group regularly, but not everyone in net.land is buying a car, so please email
me to cut down on congestion and I will post a summary.

many thanks in advance,

Richard Moynes
moynes_r@qis.dofasco.ca

P.S. - In case anyone cares, this car will be replacing my '88 Chevy S-10.  I
have no major complaints with it as far as reliability goes etc...  It is great
when I go camping or canoeing because I can just load it up and go.  The
problem comes from the other 48 or so weeks per year when I have to drive a
truck around.
From: unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Waterproofing Boots (was Re: Summery of Nike fabic boots...)
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:31:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MITEM Corp

In article <1992Jul24.215811.2709@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul20.174235.28361@mitem.com> unger@mitem.com
>(Tom Unger) writes:
>>>resole them.  In the long run you may save money on them.  I have
>>>learned how to waterproof my leather boots so that I can walk through
>>>water (for a short way) and still have dry feet.  (The secret is _not_
>>>snow seal.)
>
>The real secrets are:
>1) prevent water from entering the top using something like gaitors.
>
>2) Get boots with a minimum of seams.
>
>3) Don't sweat.
>

But it does help to water proof the leater as well.  

You can't get snow seal into the leather unles you heat the boots and
heating leather is very bad for it.  I apply one coat of silicon
sealer (liquid usually in glass bottle with applicator) followed by
one coat of Biwell (original without silicon).  Optionaly seal the
seams.

As to how often you apply, you got to figure that out your self.  The
more oil in the leather the more waterproof.  BUT too much oil can
break down the shape of the leather boot.  My plan is once or twice a
year with the silicon and three or four times a year with the Biwell.

And don't sweat.

Tom.
Seattle.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.boats
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: GPS
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:02:31 GMT

In article <thompson.712013589@daphne.socsci.umn.edu>, thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson) writes:

> 2.  GPS fixes position by looking for satellites.  3 simultaneous fixes
>     are needed to get a 3D fix.  In certain regions of the globe (Don't
>     ask ME where) only two satellites are available at any one time.
>     This generally is not a problem for boaters since they usually know
>     their altitude, which can substitute for one satellite.  Might be a
>     problem for mountain travellers, however.

It may be a while before all the planned satellites are up.  I just read
in the San Francisco Guardian (a freebie leftist rag) about two peace
activists who are awaiting sentencing for smashing up a couple of the 
satellites down at the Rockwell plant.  The article is a classic example
of journalism as cheerleading, and it's really a scream the way they 
ignore the civilian uses and righteously mischaracterize the military ones 
to justify themselves.

If anyone's interested I'll consider typing the article in.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece		
Not an Intel spokesman  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.legal