HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus 283-4283)
Subject: Decoding Weather Satellite Pics (WEFAX)
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Organization: MDSSC
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:38:03 GMT

	I am attempting to put together a satellite ground station to
decode NOAA and GOES satellite images.  There are several stumbling
blocks in the way:
	- I have an AEA-PK232A.  Supposedly this supports WEFAX decoding,
	  but the operating manual that comes with it just suggests buying
	  AEA's own software.  I want to write my own, but have no information
	  on what format the demodulated picture will be in when it appears
	  on my computer serial line.

	- Where can I get a 1691 MHz -> ~137 MHz downconverter and what is
	  it likely to cost?

	- Where can I get ~2 ft of 9913 RG-8U?  The only source I've found
	  so far is AES, and they only sell it in 100 ft rolls (according
	  to the catalog).

	- Does anyone have any comments on modifying scanners in the 137 MHz
	  range to get the 30-50 kHz bandwidth required?

  Thanks for any help.

	-Keith Mancus <mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
	 N5WVR
From: sking@wattres.San-Jose.CA.US (Steve King)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: ICOM IC-2AT HELP
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:49:11 GMT
Distribution: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Organization: Steven Watt, Consultant   San Jose, CA, USA


I have a question about battery packs for the IC-2AT.  Included in the
documentation w/ the HT is a list of options.  Both on this sheet an
in a recent ICOM catalog, the highest power battery that can be used
is the BP-5 (10.8 V), but not the BP-7 (13.8 V).  I have a 12 V
battery (measured 12 V) and would like to know that since 12 V is not
significantly more than 10.8 V, if it can be used on my IC-2AT without
causing damage to the insides.  Is there anyone on the net that has
used, or uses, a 12 V (as opposed to 13.8 V) battery on their HT?
Please email me your comments.  Thanks in advance.

	73 de Steve


-- 
Steve King       Domain:  SKing@Wattres.SJ.CA.US
                 Packet:  KC6WCH @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
KC6WCH          "Dammit, Jim!  I'm a meteorologist, not a forecaster!"
               "Climate is what you expect.  Weather is what you get."
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: reisert@sttng.enet.dec.com (Jim Reisert)
Subject: Re: DXCC Waiting Time for Endorsements??
Reply-To: reisert@sttng.enet.dec.com (Jim Reisert)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation -- Maynard, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 19:37:07 GMT


I think the current waiting time is between 4 and 5 *months*!  Be patient!

- Jim AD1C

--
James J. Reisert                Internet:  reisert@sttng.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corp.         UUCP:      ...decwrl!sttng.enet!reisert
146 Main Street			Voice:     508-493-5747
Maynard, MA  01754		FAX:       508-493-0395
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: rwiley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert H Wiley)
Subject: Re: Dayton Hamvention map coordinates wanted
Keywords: Lat, long
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:29:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.065409.215812@cs.cmu.edu> rwb@boxcar.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger) writes:
>
>Can someone post or email me the latitude and longitude of the
>Dayton Hamvention, to at least 0.1 minute accuracy? I want to try
>my Loran on the drive, displaying distance and ETA as I go.
>
>rwb@cmu.edu

Well the Geographic Server just came up with the following coordinates...

		39 44 32 North
		84 11 30 West

I hope that helps...

					73 de Bob, N8MMR

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|Robert H. Wiley        |   Internet: rwiley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu        |
|P.O. Box 3164          |   FidoNet: 1:226/170  Packet: N8MMR@W8CQK.OH.USA.NA |
|Columbus, Ohio 43210   |                                                     |
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Dayton Hamvention map coordinates wanted
Keywords: Lat, long
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:02:00 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Apr15.065409.215812@cs.cmu.edu> rwb@boxcar.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger) writes:
>
>Can someone post or email me the latitude and longitude of the
>Dayton Hamvention, to at least 0.1 minute accuracy? I want to try
>my Loran on the drive, displaying distance and ETA as I go.

Considering the current thread on Sci.military about backyard cruise
missiles using cheap consumer Loran and GPS guidance, and considering
the recent post here from the guy who seriously thought nuking Dayton
would be a good idea, I'd be slow to give out these super secret numbers.
Of course he could look at a gas station map.

:-):-):-)

Gary KE4ZV
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Subject: Looking for recommendations for 2m HT for SKYWARN use
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:53:09 GMT


With spring here, I was wondering if you folks could recommend a nice,
relatively inexpensive (around the price of the RS HT-202) 2m HT.  It would
be primarily used for SKYWARN duties, so I'd like it to be at least somewhat
rugged and water resistant.  Thanks in advance...
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "It's Night 9 with D2 Dave!"
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: alf@dfv.rwth-aachen.de (Ralf Crumbach)
Subject: Re: Boycott Icom (fwd)
Organization: RBI - RWTH Aachen
Date: 16 Apr 92 08:51:04 GMT

rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) writes:

>In article <13536@suns5.crosfield.co.uk> nbb@crosfield.co.uk (nick bristow) writes:
>>	I really do not think that the car spares situation is at all 
>>analogous to the spares relating to any form of electronic unit (except 
>>military equipment). I suggest that you try to replace that 20mB full height
>>hard disk drive in your old XT with an exact copy new device and see where 
>>it gets you.

>    But, odds are I can get a part which will re-produce the functionality
>    required of the old disk/controller.  I could care less if it's identical,
>    just so long as it does the same job.
I agree with you. But in a couple of yers there are probably no longer hard
disk drives which will fit in an XT or they will be so expensive that no one
want to buy one. In the second case the factories would stop to build them.

>    Backwards compatibility is required in software design; why not in
>    hardware?
We have got this compability in the PC sector and in my opinion it is the worst
thing what can be done in building hardware. Nevertheless if there is a good
solution in the hardware the next generations can take benefit from it. But the
manufactures should be allowed to improve their products.

Ralf, DD2KZ


--
Ralf Crumbach, DD2KZ                                     |     C   O   M
Communication Networks, Technical University of Aachen   | --v-^-v-^-v-^-v--
  Phone: +49-241-807919           Fax: +49-241-84964     |   N   E   T   S
  Email: alf@dfv.rwth-aachen.de                          | RWTH Aachen, Germany
From: radneyt@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Mod's ... B(u)y the book!
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:45:33 EST

 All of you people out there that are looking for radio mods, just
go ahead and shell out the 20 bucks it cost to buy the mod book.
I inquired about a mod to an Alinco radio not too long ago and 
the closest thing I got to an answer was a verbal slap on the
wrist telling me (please insert very sarcastic tone here ---> )
"it's illegal to transmit out side the band" (end sarcasm)
Boy I'm glad I found that out... I don't think that was covered
in *my* rules and regs book. Anyway enough of my soapbox.
Maybe y'all will have better luck than I did.

                         73's

____________________________________________________________
|                              |                            |
| Lee Radney                   |  "The above are just the   | 
| KC4YBK                       |   inept ramblings of a     |
| [O] (912) 275-2100 ext. 2222 |   single individual and    |
| [H] (912) 272-1876           |   are by no means anyone's |
|                              |   opinion but my own."     |
|______________________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: m14494@mwvm.mitre.org (Mike White)
Subject: Re: Heathkit article in New York Times
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 16:22:37 GMT

Chuck Harris - WA3UQV writes:
> I built one of their HA201 2-meter amplifiers as a teen, and it went 
>firmly into parasitic oscillations... had to redesign several parts of their 
>circuitry just to keep from burning out transistors... it was a terrific 
>lemon... their synthesized mobile 2-m rig was recalled because its 
>synthesizer was improperly designed... I don't think that a single 
>solid-state Ham radio kit designed by Heath from 1970 thru 1980 was 
>competently designed.

I think you're painting too bleak a picture.  Yes, we've all had our 
problems with Heathkits, but lots and lots of factory-built rigs have 
major problems, too.  Heathkits made it possible for lots of kids of 
limited means to get into ham radio, and many, many hams (me included) 
built and successfully used Heathkits for many, many years.  No, they 
weren't the best rigs ever designed, yes, they certainly had their 
share of problems, and yes, things seemed to go downhill starting in the '70s... but overall, I think Ham Radio is far richer for Heathkits having been around, and I'm going to miss 'em.

Mike, N4PDY
************************
* These are my opinions only.*
************************
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Lambda Amateur Radio Club vs. the ARRL
Date: 16 Apr 1992 18:38:51 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Apr16.180327.25846@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.UUCP () writes:
>Without getting into the why's of the refusal, I have NEVER heard
>of a case where any organization, or publication (newspaper, etc.)
>has been forced to accept any advertising it chooses not to carry.
>Newspapers do it all the time when they refuse various personal ads,
>certain political ads, etc.

The "whys" of the refusal are the central issue. I don't think it's
appropriate for the ARRL to refuse to carry LARC's ads if that refusal is
based on anti-gay sentiment. If they refuse to cary ads from other radio clubs
on a general basis, then this argument is moot. I'd like to know just why LARC
was refused. In any case, I'll be talking to my division director about it;
that's the best way to get heard on any particular issue relating to the
League. I'd recommend that others who have an opinion contact their director,
too - and not just on this issue, but any they have an opinion about. The
directors can't follow the wishes of the members if they don't know them.
 
>ARRL is a "private" club as near as I can tell, and I can't see how 
>the Lambda folks could ever prevail.

Legally? Good question, especially if there's a law against discrimination
based on sexual preference in Connecticut and that was the reason for the
refusal. I suspect that it'd take a court to iron it out. Personally, I'd
rather see the League simply accept the ad (unless if falls under a broader
policy).
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
   "While we liked developing Windows applications, we never inhaled." --
              Philippe Kahn, in Infoworld, 13 Apr 1992
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc

DE KD7UW

Xref: sparky rec.radio.amateur.misc:7559 alt.folklore.urban:12029
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 12:56:27 EST
From: Asher Samuels <ASAHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: FCC 3-Letter Call letters
Distribution: na
 <1992Apr1.133025.9584@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <epeterso.702141187@fenix>
 <4dqqWDK00VpZ4SvG9c@andrew.cmu.edu> <92093.161115ICLNM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
 <728@wicat.UUCP>

A few years ago, WOR was forced to become WWOR (channel 9 in the NYC area)
-------
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| asahc@cunyvm.cuny.edu                                 Abfrl, nera'g lbh?  |
| Asher B. Samuels                                                          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
From: jon@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Jon E. Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Subject: Re: Lambda Amateur Radio Club vs. the ARRL
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:52:01 GMT

>In article <1992Apr16.180327.25846@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.UUCP () writes:
> 
>>ARRL is a "private" club as near as I can tell, and I can't see how 
>>the Lambda folks could ever prevail.

Why, isn' it curious? *I* happen to be a member of this lil' private
club. Fancy that! and *I* want to accept advertisements from LARC.

Too bad the ARRL didn't ask me about my personal and social life before
they pestered me to join up... Funny though, they didn't want me for
a long time just because I didn't want to learn their silly ol' Morris code.

Well, the times they is a changing. I fully intend to rejoin the ARRL,
heck, I'll even become a LIFE member.... Yeah, that's it. I'll do it
next payday. Love the magazine, and the advertisements too! Fun and
entertaining new radio clubs to join and all that.

I'll tell you another thing. The ARRL plays along with another lil'
private club I'm a member of.. The United States of America. I don't 
think I want my club allowing the ARRL to discriminate against people!
Yeah, perhaps a club that is discriminating cannot be trusted or allowed
to participate in the VEC program, or send representatives to that other
lil' club I'm a member of... The IARU, Yeah.. Thts' the ticket...

The dinosaurs died like this, I think...

We're here, We're Queer, Bleeding well get used to it OM's....
From: CELLIS%BROCKVMA.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Company sponsored/allowed Ham Radio Clubs
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:02:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucsd.9204101302.AA10274
Organization: UCSD Usenet Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu

What a bunch of "boy have I never accomplished anything and I want to
rain on everybody else's parade too..." lids have gotten into ham radio today.
I avoid the idiocy of 14.313 as a major embarasement, by realizing
that there are a heck of a lot of other frequencies and I do know how to
get my receiver to another.  I took great enjoyment in the QST cover that is
Copyrighted by Disney, and worked the N6 Mickey Mouse station TWICE and will
request both certificates.  I won't go into it but why don't some of you
crumudgeons crawl back under your rock and go back to 14.313 Mhz.  Forbid any
body should enjoy a hobby - sorry we can't all be pseudo lawyers and pseudo
repeater cops.  Get a life (I hate that phrase but it really applies here)!
Please, don't respond because they will only be trashed and unread.
                               73 and see you on the bands.
Carty  KA2Y  (Licensed since 1958 - extra since 1979)  and proud of it!
From: parnass@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Bob Parnass, AJ9S)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Heathkit article in New York Times
Summary: Heath SS-9000 white (brown) elephant
Keywords: HW101
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:37:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Apr13.155218.19813@eng.umd.edu>, chuck@eng.umd.edu (Chuck Harris - WA3UQV) writes about hte Heath SS-9000 ill-fated transceiver:

> ...  This radio
> was synthesized, 100W, 2 vfo's, RIT, Passband offset, RS-232 controlled, WARC,
> Voice Processed, 1KHz and 200Hz CW filters, etc.  It was factory built, works
> pretty well, but was blessed with extreme phase noise, and a $3000 price tag!

During the same era that Kenwood introduced the general coverage
TS-430S, Heath introduced the hambands-only SS-9000 at 3 times
the price!
-- 
==============================================================================
Bob Parnass, AJ9S - AT&T Bell Laboratories - att!ihlpm!parnass - (708)979-5414
From: rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Boycott Icom (fwd)
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:56:32 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

Well (knock on wood) my 12+ year old IC-720 (not 720A) is still working
just fine.  Guess when it goes, it goes.  I've been inside to install filters
and such; if it's an electronic problem it will probably be repairable.
If it is the CPU, custom chips, or that unique bandpass filter motorized
switch, then you are out of luck.

Perhaps someone at an independent repair shop somewhere is saving 720
carcasses in an effort to provide some support?

-- 
Josh Rovero   (rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil) | or Internet 5346p@cc.nps.navy.mil 
Department of Oceanography, Code OC/Rv |      Bitnet 5346p@NAVPGS 
Naval Postgraduate School              |              
Monterey, CA  93943   (408) 646-2084   |
From: alanb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Alan Bloom)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:33:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Boycott Icom (fwd)
Organization: HP Network Measurements Div, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc

In rec.radio.amateur.misc, flloyd@L1-A.West.Sun.COM (Fred Lloyd [Phoenix SE]) writes:

>It's not as easy as you think.  Many of the IC's are custom, built 
>specifically for ICOM, and the production lines for these IC"s have
>long since shut down.  

I doubt there are many full-custom IC's in amateur equipment.  The CPU
in question is probably one with a PROM on board to store the program.
Most likely ICOM buys blank ICs from the manufacturer and programs them
themselves.  Even if they buy them pre-programmed from the IC vendor, 
I doubt they pay more than $5 or so each, so I don't see why they can't
buy a hundred extra parts to use for spares.  (Maybe they did, but the
part has a high failure rate!)

AL N1AL
From: winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: International Ham-related Chain Letters
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:33:47 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Apr6.200739.8189@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> rab@hal.cwru.edu (Roger Bielefeld) writes:
>Today I received a QSL from a JW station I worked
>in January.  Enclosed was a chain letter asking
>me to send $1 to each name on a list of four hams,
>put my name & address on the end, and to send
>20 copies to other hams.  The usual chain letter
>thing, except that it involves hams.
>
>Does this occur often?  


Dunno how often it happens, but I got one a couple of weeks ago,
too. Except it was from someone I'd never worked. He and the two
hams preceding him on the list are Ukrainians; the one at the top
was an American currently residing on a U.S. island in the Pacific.

The letter implied that it had originated at "Imperial Sales Co."
in Knoxville. Guess I should make a copy and send it along to the
USPS for investigation.


Patty 

-- 

     :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
     ::   Patty Winter N6BIS	Internet: winter@apple.com          ::	     
     ::   Sunnyvale, California	AMPRNet: 44.4.0.44	            ::
     :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Boycott Icom (fwd)
From: julian@bongo.UUCP (Julian Macassey)
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:05:32 GMT
Reply-To: julian@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
Organization: The Hole in the Wall  Hollywood California U.S.A.

In article <1992Apr14.164047.4813@gvl.unisys.com> rossi@gvlf8-m.gvl.unisys.com (Pete Rossi) writes:
>
>Most cars don't make that many drastic changes from year-to-year so a
>part for your 1985 XYZZ  may be the same for the '86 '87 '88 '89 model..
>
>How many common parts do a lot of these Icom/Kenwood radios share among
>models.  There is no real reason to change EVERYTHING from model to model.  
>
>My old Heathkits (the SB and HW series) had a LOT of parts in common.  Makes
>them real easy to fix (usually).

	The Economist had an article recently about how all this rapid
model change business harmed these companies in the long run. I figured
that out years ago - their tooling costs must be staggering.

	But the Japanese stuff used to be pretty much standard commodity
parts. I recall repairing Japanese  radios and cassette recorders by
canibalising parts from other radios, not even the same brand. In
those days of course the venerable FT101 from Yeasu was in production 
until the stamping dies wore out. (Geezer Alert!)

	Today alas we have the walki-talkie of the month. What do we
get with each new model? Another LED or two. But it is even worse in
the Sony Walkman business. It is damn close to impossible to buy the
same model of Walkman twice. The "GE" Super Radio II is already out of
production, after hardly a year being back ordered for weeks because it
was so popular - Are they making room in the factory for more VCRs?

	Of course why all the new models? So you the customers will buy
them. Must admit it seems to work judging by the frenzy I see when a
new model radio comes out.

-- 
Julian Macassey, julian@bongo.info.com  N6ARE@K6VE.#SOCAL.CA.USA.NA
742 1/2 North Hayworth Avenue Hollywood CA 90046-7142 voice (213) 653-4495
From: tstader@attmail.COM
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: RE:Kenwood TM741A Mods causing problems??
Date: 10 Apr 1992 05:01:54 -0700
Organization: UCSD Usenet Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu

I'd like to thank Fred and Monte for their quick replies to my questions
about the 741A problem. I think I'll take the radio back to HRO on Kenwood
Day, 4/11/92 and talk to the Kenwood rep.

Terry - tstader@attmail.com, America Online-TSTADER-Ham Radio Club Host
KA8SCP@WA1PHY.#EMA.MA.USA.NA or ka8scp@ka8scp.ampr.org [44.56.4.82]
A Macintosh TCP/IP Station
From: axd7104@acfcluster.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: FCC Call letters
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:06:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Distribution: na
Organization: New York University

>>In article <4dqqWDK00VpZ4SvG9c@andrew.cmu.edu> mc3d+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mary Rose Campbell) writes:
> 
>>>Are there any other 3-letter stations out there?

WOR in New York is one.
-- 
Aaron Dickey                      Bitnet: axd7104@nyuacf
New York University             Internet: axd7104@ACFcluster.nyu.edu

Al Roker Is God.
From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Boycott Icom (fwd)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:21:30 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs

In article <13536@suns5.crosfield.co.uk> nbb@crosfield.co.uk (nick bristow) writes:
>	I really do not think that the car spares situation is at all 
>analogous to the spares relating to any form of electronic unit (except 
>military equipment). I suggest that you try to replace that 20mB full height
>hard disk drive in your old XT with an exact copy new device and see where 
>it gets you.

    But, odds are I can get a part which will re-produce the functionality
    required of the old disk/controller.  I could care less if it's identical,
    just so long as it does the same job.

    Backwards compatibility is required in software design; why not in
    hardware?
--
    Robert Allen, rja@sun.com		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "Traditionalists often study what is taught, not what there is to create."
			     - Ed Parker, Grandmaster, American Kenpo.