HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Subject: Re: Grendel War Child is boring
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:26:43 GMT

In <1992Dec16.080139.1884@scott.skidmore.edu> jholstei@scott.skidmore.edu (jeremy holstein) writes:
>  Why does everyone seem to think that this is fantastic art?   It's
>certainly passable, and sometimes even exceptional, but most of the
>time it strikes me as akward.  McKeown (I think that's his name.) has
>terrible storytelling skills.  His depiction of what's happening is
>often very murky and confusing, and the fact that this story is being
>told through sparse text only amplifies the problem.

I think his storytelling skills are extremely good, actually.  My main
problems with his art are:

1) Some occasional problems with perspective, and
2) Sometimes his background are sparse and uninteresting - a comic art no-no.

But on the whole I think McEown's drawings are attractive, and his storytelling
skills up to the task set before him.

>							Wagner's inking
>is nice, but unappropriate from what little of Patrick's pencils I've
>seen.  McKeown has a very clean line style, thin previse lines,
>whereas Wagner prefers thick outlines, with lots o' dark shading.  The
>combination is interesting, but not always effective.  Bernie Mirault
>isn't helping things either by giving everything such garish colors
>and overpainting the black-lines, taking away whatever contrast Wagner
>had achieved.

Hmmm... I disagree here, too.  I think the colors only enhance the story, and
actually take nothing away from Wagner's linework.

>  Ah, well.  My piece is said.  I do not think this is the best
>Grendel arc published yet, but its certianly fun, and the Bisley
>covers are nice (althogh he does have a strange way of drawing
>Grendel's face-mask....).

I really dislike Bisley's style (much like I dislike Sienkiwicz's and Dave
McKean's...), and was very happy to see that #5 (and, I think, the future
issues) sported a Matt Wagner cover.

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI
( Coming soon to a Massachusetts near you! )

BASIC silently prevents you from tying your shoelaces together.
Pascal says, "You can't tie your shoelaces together."
C says, "Hmm, this person wants to tie his shoelaces together.  Okay."
C++ says, "And you can use this method for tying your hands together, too."
Modula-3 says, "Go ahead, and use multiple threads if you like."
Lisp says, "Please return the string when you're done."
Scheme provides a mechanism for easy untying if you get in too deep.
From: axjb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Anthony Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman, Hellblazer and Hell
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:58:54 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

> And talking about the Devil, what role has the great devil/demon that appears
> in American Gothic? He is not (IMHO) neither Satan nor Lucifer. Any further
> opinion ?
>	MArc

I still haven't managed to track down the TPB concerned (only got into Swamp
Thing a few months back, see) so I may be _way_ off the mark here, but I'd
always assumed that this was Azazel.

$0.02 time...

Just in general, it does seem to me that the various hierarchies of Heaven and
Hell portrayed in the different DC comics are rather inconsistent. I got the
impression that the real problems started when Garth Ennis portrayed the 
unholy trinity as pretty much equals in his first Hellblazer story at the same
time that Gaiman had had Lucifer (clearly stated to be a member of this 
triumvirate in Sandman #4) quit his job and kick the others out without any
fuss or bother at all, apparently claiming that he went along with the
triumvirate rubbish for a while because he found it amusing (Sandman #23).
Oh-oh, some inconsistencies here which I guess arose because we've got different
authors working on different stories which need conflicting backgrounds if their
plots are going to work. Any attempt to patch these sort of things up has got
to be pretty inspired otherwise it's going to end up in a terrible mess of
contradictions and fudges (cf Crisis...).

Personally, I guess I've divided the DC universe up into two linked but
separate bits in my mind (Universe 1 and Universe 2? Oh dear...), with 
Sandman/Moore's Swamp Thing/Delano's Hellblazer in one camp, where things are
actually pretty stable as regards power struggles at the top, although the
lesser entities may wrongly think otherwise, and Ennis' Hellblazer/some others?
in a second where everything is balanced on a razor's edge and either Heaven,
Hell or someone else entirely could suddenly win a war that has been going on
since the start of time at any moment. Or perhaps I've totally misjudged
the situation. Does anyone reading this thread know exactly what internal
miscommumnications/disagreements at DC have brought the current situation about? 

	Anthony.

"Dreams are like water, colourless and dangerous" - This Mortal Coil
From: derrick@cs.athabascau.ca (Derrick Rowlandson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Sam & Max
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:01:28 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Athabasca University


Greetings. Would someone be able to tell me wether Marvel has published the
Sam & Max Color Special as yet, and what is is suppose to contain?

thank you

Derrick
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson)
Subject: Hepcats #9 (2nd printing) and #10 out
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:31:47 GMT


Some free-form thoughts on the release of Hepcats #10:

Martin Wagner is continuing the inexorably slow crawl back towards a
publishing schedule. Having had a decent year in sales seems to have
helped his cause tremendously; I know I'm going to continue supporting
his drive to publish some of the best material in the comics world.

No plot details will be given here, only the frustration that he can't
get this book out fast enough to satisfy my morbid fascination.

The Collegiate Hepcats will be out when he receives enough orders for the
book, so send in your checks today! I don't have the address with me,
unfortunately, but I remember that the Softcover is $12 and the Hardcover
is $25. My check is going out after the holidays, as are checks from both
(!) of my roommates.

Speaking of which...this is a great book to hook your friends on. Buy a
copy (or two). Share with people you know. Watch them ask where to get
more. :)

Martin indulges once again in hinting at storylines we're not likely to
see in the 20th century, this time in a brief lettercol reference to
issues 28 and 29, in which we will get Gunther's background, and the long
novel he's planning for Hepcats 51-100 (issue 100 will *end* the series).
Shades of Cerebus, anyone? I can make the comparison because both of them
are so darn *good*.

Rush out today. Buy Hepcats. If your retailer doesn't carry the book,
threaten him with cartoon violence and demand he order copies. Enjoy your
copies in the comfort of your own asylum cell.

-- 
Jeff Williamson       ** "I am Gavin MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod...
ACNS/Northwestern U.  **  and my show is immortal."
Evanston, Illinois    **  
blackmagik@nwu.edu    **  There can be only one Love Boat (we hope).
From: sbc@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott B. Casteel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: JLA contest answers!
Date: 16 Dec 1992 07:00:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Since I'm leaving for home tomorrow, I'm ending the contest now.
Thanks to all those who answered or some interest. I'll have to
go over my mail later and determine the winner. If you won, I'll
let you know and make arrangments for the prize. The following
are the questions previously posted and the answers...

	1) Who has appeared on the cover the MOST?
	 A: Blue Beetle with a total of 36 cover appearances

	2) Who has appeared on the cover the SECOND most?
	 A: Guy Gardner with a total of 32 cover appearances
 
	note: J'onn is third with 29 (unless he IS Bloodwynd)

	3) What is Guy Gardner's middle name?
	 A: Darrin (is only mentioned twice in whole series)
	    I'll look issue #'s if you want them.

	4) What is the name of the bar where the Injustice 
	   League hangs out?
	 A: The Dark Side (most everyone got this right)

As for the bonus, I got numerous answers, of which most 
qualified. No one mentioned one of my favorites, so I'll
tell you...
	Situation is grim for the league when one of the 
weaker members (Ralph or mainly Ice) saves them with their
powers. One members says something to the effect of...
	"Wow! You saved us. I can't believe everyone says 
your powers are lame!" and the response is something like...
	"It was nothing, You would have done...WHO SAYS MY
POWERS ARE LAME?!?!?" It's been used many times.

I also like the group cover shot with everyone looking at 
the reader. Used 4 or 5 times.

On a side note, what does everyone think of this rumor of
the new line-up (Black Condor, Agent Liberty?) I hope it's
not true. I wouldn't mind the Ray, too much. I guess it's
too much to ask for Giffen and DeMatteis back...Oh well.
As long as Guy is around, I'll still read it.

I know it's long and I'm sorry but I wanted to say 
everything before I leave because I don't know if I'll
be able to access from home (long distance bills). 
Have a Happy Holiday and keep reading those comics!
-- 
Scott Casteel <<sbc>>
   "Wanna make somethin' out of it?"
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Annotation 38
Date: 15 Dec 1992 07:35:17 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Keywords: sandman annotation
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec14.003528.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@physics.rice.edu writes:
)                         Issue 38:  "The Hunt"
)             Neil Gaiman, Duncan Eagleson, and Vince Locke
)	Panel 5:  Asafoetida:  A highly scented gum resin with a bitter acrid 
)taste obtained from the roots of several plants of the genus _Ferula_ found in
)Central Asia.  Some species of _Ferula_ are found in the Mediterranean area
)as well, but these are not noted as yielding asafoetida.  The plants are 
)typically tall with divided leaves.  _Ferula_ are umbelliferous, related to
)carrots, celery, parsnips, and herbs such as parsley.
)	(I got that with five minutes and a dictionary.  Does anyone have
)the slightly clue what it -means-? :-)

	Like the highly scented garlic, asafoetida is traditionally 
a repellent of vampires and/or werewolves.

)	No refs on the Cloak of Night.  The Drum Inescapable also appears
)in _Books of Magic_ (Where, David?). 

	It's referred to in book III, page 27, panel 6. It doesn't
actually appear.

)Page 5 panel 2:  Gaje':  From context, the Romany word for outsider.

	Oddly similar to the Japanese "gaijin".

)Page 8 panel 1-2:  Vassily did not slay the peddler woman, nor was she
)eaten by a beast, nor was her pack taken by bandits.  Who, then, killed
)her?  Perhaps Vassily's father?

	It seems very likely.

)Page 9 
)	Panel 8:  Considering that the inn's fare was characterized as
)"poor" on the preceeding page, are we to infer that Vassily -ate- the
)villainous innkeeper?

	It seems very likely.

)	Panel 5:  The continents indeed do move, as the scientists say, 
)although this could not be known to Vassily.  In any case, the continents
)have been roughly in their current shapes for many millions of years, so
)the last thief Lucien refers to could not have been an ordinary human.

	Although, according to the beginning of "Brief Lives" part three,
humans have been around for *much* longer than current scientific thinking
would suggest.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |      "Hey, mister! Your ninja's dragging!" 
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: Annotated Stanley & His Monster #1
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:55:37 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:

>In article <lj53fvINN4n5@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, khale@camilla.Eng.Sun.COM (Abhijit Khale) writes:
>> 
>> >        Panel 2: "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" was a popular 70s book.
>> >I have no idea what it was about. 
>> 
>> Would you believe it was about a seagull ? 

> It was a methaphorical story.  :-)  Now, who was the author?

Richard Bach
--
Ramez Naam
naam@terra.cecer.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mgq@inel.gov (Michael G McKellar)
Subject: Re: Superman HOLY TERROR reference?
Keywords: Holy Terror
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:39:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.034552.4364@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au> rosser@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Brad Rosser) writes:
>A couple of weeks ago someone posted an article on previous "death of
>Superman" stories, and referred to a HOLY TERROR story/comic/episode.
>
>This sounds like something I've missed ... would someone be able to
>provide me with information or a reference?

Holy Terror is a Batman graphic novel within the Elsewhere or is it
Elseworlds series.  America and of course Gotham are controlled by
a theocracy and Bruce Wayne is a Priest who decides to become the
Batman to reveal some covered secrets.  A number of the DC superheros
appear within this novel.  It is very good and one of the best
things released last year by DC.

Mike McKellar (mgq@inel.gov)

========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mickey@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Mickey)
Subject: Re: John Byrne's Stint on Fantastic Four
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:32:09 GMT

In article <visser.724181039@convex.convex.com> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
>In <1992Dec11.183706.20218@meaddata.com> musgse@meaddata.com (Steve Musgrave) writes:
>
>+>Can anyone tell me what Fantastic Four issues 
>+>John Byrne worked on?
>
>220(?),221(?) (written by him, but nothing special)

Drawn by him, too, if memory serves....

>232-294 (all-byrne)

He also did a couple of issues in a really good storyline (IMO) around
208-214.  That's the wrap-up on the infamous Skrull aging ray stuff
and a nice Galactus appearance....


Mick



-- 
Mickey McCarter, amateur actor & reporter     mickey@chopin.udel.edu  __
"I'll make your business my business."		Forever reading      / |	
"You wouldn't want my business, the pay's            The Fantastic  /__|_ 
too small." -  Phil Marlowe, _The Big Sleep_                           |
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Desert Peach
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:30:48 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <lis.724282704@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> lis@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Elisabeth Riba) writes:
>Is this the end of Desert Peach??
>DP 18 just came out, and it was all text & portfolio with one short
>cartoon.  [Incidentally, anyone know how to turn a comic page into a
>T-shirt?  I want a copy of "How would you feel about war..."]  The MU
>Xmas issue seemed to put a final cap on the DP story--very sad.  

	Hmmm.....from what I hear, this was a "filler book" so Donna et al
could work on the show.


>Also, did anyone manage to see the stage play?

	Eh. Not a good show. Needed a lot of pruning and left all the good
character parts on the editing table.  If I did my usual review job, there
wouldn't be much left....



-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: Sandman - A Thought
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:10:20 GMT

Or maybe it's just 'cos we get to read the Earth-published version of Sandman.
The one published on Hykraios has the Endless spending most of their time and
energy *there*... :-)

Alexx

Alexx@world.std.com
"KEY GRIP (1 hr -- Drama) Part three of Patrick McGoohan's `John Drake' 
 Trilogy.  Series security prohibits any information release prior to 
 broadcast.  (Emph: the struggle for individualism)."
[From Matt Howarth's WRAB: PIRATE TELEVISION]
From: xyzzy@imagen.com (David McIntyre)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Superman, Superman, Everybody's talking about Superman ...
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:50:27 GMT
Organization: IMAGEN

In article <Bz4svr.DKM@ais.org> saab@ais.org (Micheal Marks) writes:

>Also, I tend to agree that the price of Supes can't sustain the level its
>at right now.  However, this is also a unique event, and may have a unique
>result.  I wouldn't rub it in to the "speculators" just yet.  As an 
>example, what if, say, the big "Return of Superman" event next spring/summer
>just fuels the fire?  It would be ironic to hear people kicking themselves
>because they could've gotten Supes 75 "at only 20 bucks last year."  Ironic
>indeed.

I, personally, think that the fire will not be fueled by the return of Superman, but rather quelled.  People will probably say "So he's not really dead.  That  means that this so-called "death" book is really lying, so now it ain't worth   s**t.
From: mkelly@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Favorite Artists?
Date: 13 Dec 92 18:51:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Dec13.185128.5357
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

Jim Cowling's list isn't bad, although I take exception with a few of
his choices (but who wouldn't ;), here's someone he left off the list...

DEAN MOTTER: Another great "visual artist". Unfortunately he doesn't do
nearly enough of his own work, instead I most often see his name as 
"Publication Design Specialist" or some such thing. A good example of
how his art savy can really make a comic book work is in the Hellblazer
story "Sundays are Different" (#33 for all of you who should run out and
buy it).

--
+               Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics                +
+                                                                           +
+ mkelly@doc.helios.nd.edu          "The more you drive,                    + 
+ mkelly@undhe5.hep.nd.edu                 the less intelligent you are."   +
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mss2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re: Annotated Stanley & His Monster #1
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:20:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.205114.12589@panix.com> carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) writes:
>  I think it's a Mage T-shirt.  Granted, it's the wrong color, but
>the Mage T-shirt actually exists.

	And you think in the DC Universe the Flash and Shazam
t-shirts don't?  (Actually, modern-age Flash t-shirts were produced
recently in the real world as tie-ins to the TV show, and it would
surprise me not at all if there were Shazam t-shirts at one time or
another.)

Mike
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Indeed I tremble for my country
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 when I reflect that God is just."
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on
mschiffer@aal.itd.umich.edu	    Virginia (1784)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: murph@athena.mit.edu (Keith E Murphy)
Subject: Re: Hermin Vermin II ..
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:31:10 GMT

In article <Bz25CL.34A@cs.uiuc.edu>, wesselak@sunc0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak) writes:
|> sewon@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (WAYNE WONG) writes:
|> 
|> >I've read a lot of rave reviews about Hermin Vermin I, and was wondering if 
|> >Hermin Vermin II is worth picking up.  Any comments?
|> 
|> *AHEM!*  The first book is called _Gregory_.  Just _Gregory_.  I'm about to run
|> to the shop in an hour or so and scramble for my copy of _Gregory II_.  I don't
|> know if Herman's name is in the title.
|> 
|> The first one was SO funny, you can bet your beans this one will be good.
|> 
|> Erik
|> 
|> P.S.  Bim! Bim!  AAAAaaahh!!
|> -- 
|> | "'Who did YOU sleep with to reach   | "There's been some      __| /  |__    |
|> | the top of the food chain!?!'"      |  trouble in London"     __|<  /|__    |
|> |  --Leonard the Roach,               |                           | \/ |      |
|> | Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children |  Erik: wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu     |


I found these posts extremely ironic, since I read them AFTER reading "Gregory
II".  This book is more aptly defined by the end of the title "Herman Vermin's
Very Own Best-Selling & Critically Acclaimed Book with Gregory In It"...
I think, in fact, that the "II" in the title means that it can simply be
referred to as "Gregory In It".  Personally, I thought this second volume was
worth about 20% of what I paid for it (cover price is $4.95).  I think Gregory
appeared on maybe a dozen pages.  The single Gregory story in the book was
fantastic, but the rest of it made me wish for a return policy...

If you liked Gregory, I think you'd best look through this book before buying
it...  Gregory II it is NOT!!!

Herman Vermin has his moments but is not fit to be a main character, IMHO.


-KM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: nieboer@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Doctor Gonzo)
Subject: Re: What ever happened to...?
Keywords: various characters
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:34:30 GMT

mikecap@minkowski.WPI.EDU (Michael Vince Caprio Jr) writes:


>I believe I recall Woodgod appearing in a Marvel Comics Presents storyline
>about a year or two ago.  I'd have to go home and check to be sure though...

Yeah, in  the Weapon X issues, mostly...about 71-75?


>Mike C. (Zen)

>-- 
>"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - Never
> imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that
> what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been
> would have appeared to them to be otherwise."  -- Lewis Carrol
-- 
"I know what's coming to me is never going to arrive." NIN, "Last" |
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a   |
 man." Dr Johnson "The ceremony is about to begin...WAKE UP!" Jim  |
 Morrison +++ nieboer@ucsu.colorado.edu +++ University of Colorado |
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics.misc:9450 rec.arts.comics.xbooks:3353