HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ulick@mozart.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Ugly Americans-It's not our fault
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:26:58 GMT
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <1992Oct14.172458.1854@infotec.ch> guy@infotec.ch (Guy) writes:
>
>Interesting. But how can anyone explain that the European 
>countries where these violent types originated from
>have much lower rates of violent crime than the USA ?

Washing out my mouth with soapy water, I am about to post an article about
the USA.  It's not that violent here.  I live near one of the worst areas
in the city with the higest crime rate in Indiana (and remember, Gary is in
Indiana too).  There are armed muggings, burgleries, etc.  I've been a victim
of the latter, and nearly a victim of the former, but that is no better or
worse than when I lived in Dublin, and the only country in which I was ever
mugged is Germany (twice).  From what I can see, the only reason
crime rates are high in the US is the vigor with which the government
enforces the prohibition on drugs ($112,000,000,000 per year to support
secret police forces like the DEA).  If they took cues from the Dutch police,
crime would drop drastically.  The bulk of violence is restricted to certain
inner city areas.  In American suburbia there is little crime, but a high
degree of paranoia about 'them'.  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: <None>
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:08:46 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Although I directed my comments concerning Mr. Walker's last msg
directly to him, I did want to clear up what may be a misconception.

He mentioned that these people (poor people?) "lack real access
to contraceptives".  That is not true.  Parents who have children,
where there is only one parent in the home, receive free birth
control.  Thy have ot chose to use it.  Some Health Departments
give free birth control, also.  I cannot speak for every state,
but this is certianly true in parts of Mississippi.  Normally, 
these "parents" are women, but there are a very small number of cases
where the parent applying for AFDC (Aid For Dependant Children).

Thanks!  Have a nice day!

Suzanne

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: niall@nmsu.edu (Niall Graham)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: Computing Research Lab
	t7.155411.9657@noose.ecn.purdue.edu><1992Oct8.075858.26318@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
	<92282.124355CORCORAN@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:08:41 GMT

>ty. Learning, both secular and spiritual flourished. I can't help but think wha
>t life would be like if, St. Patrick etc. brought Christianity to the American
>Indians or the native people of Africa or the Pacific or even the cities and to
>wns of the US.
>      I welcome other's thought on this topic.

Among the many predictions of the Hopi Indians is one that warned:
if whitemen came bearing a cross they would be hostile,
but if they came bearing a cross with a circle, they would be peaceful.

They have many other interesting predictions, some of which have 
not yet come to pass...  Oops I'm digressing.

Niall Graham
Los Alamos
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Who lived in Great Britain before the Kelts?
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:09:50 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>In article <D8m6RB7w165w@netlink.cts.com> lionhart@netlink.cts.com (Jackie Zucconi) writes:

>>  Would these Belgic tribes be the famous "beeker people" that's I've 
>>heard about (oh so long ago)? If memory serves me right they were called 
>>"Beeker people" because the only remains archeologists found were 
>>earthenware beekers.

>Because they had beeks? 9-)


Nah, they were releated to Dr Beeker of Supercar fame :-)


Dave

"It travels in space, or under the sea, it can journey anywhere"
"SUPERCAR"
--
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: David Yaa-hoo-ee!!
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:48:05 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center


Jeepers!  Just when I thought it was safe to put a toe back into scc, 
when I thought the *smile* thang had died down, and the "Mer-cuns 
*grunt* vs the Euro-socialist-peaceniks *sniff*" had gone the way of 
the way of the buffalo, here comes David with a Really Big Stick with 
which to beat the Unionist/Nationalist hornet's nest again!  Hooray!!

BTW, here's my own two cents on the *smile* discussion:  Internet, 
like any other social group, has conventions which are generally 
agreed upon and accepted, in much the same way that spelling has been 
standardized (although, by some postings here, one might never know 
it)!  I regard the use of the smiley faces :-) for smiles, and 
asterisks for emphasis (you *fools* :-) as a convention much like that 
of spelling.  When someone (the beautiful Suzanne, f'rinstance) writes 
out *smile*, it grates on those who see it as a flouting of 
convention, and it scans poorly, just as poorly spelled words do.  IN 
addition, there is a sort of "look, look, I'm laughing" feel to it 
which I often find unsubtle and clumsy-sounding, especially when the 
tone of the surrounding words sound nothing at all like laughter (I 
believe Suzanne referred to some fellow's opinion as "crap," and used 
the dreaded *laugh* notation within two lines of one another in a 
recent posting).  The PROPER (yes that's *proper*) way to express 
gaiety, or to convey a visual "wink of the eye" is to use the ASCII 
smiley system, which some net.deity will be glad to send you for the 
asking, or you may strike out on your own and construct whatever 
little keyboard doohickii you think appropriate.  (steps down from 
soapbox, NOT *steps down from soapbox*)

Kevvie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu (Mark Folse)
Subject: Re: Ugly Americans-It's not our fault
Reply-To: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Mark Folse)
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 12:32:24 GMT

The general address of the University of MIchigan appears to be
@um.cc.umich.edu, so Richard_Nisbett@um.cc.umich.edu might get your
flame
re ugly herder cultures (was: ugly Americans) delivered.

Then again, maybe not. I really haven't got the Internet thing
figured out completely.

en iNesbiahrd
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:12:12 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: downey@enh.nist.gov
>Come on guys, do you have to be so harsh?  I don't know much about Wiccans,
>but I don't think insults are warranted.  One could argue that
>people who believe in Christianity are ignoring science, i.e.
>creationism vs. evolution.

Wiccans seem to find it quite ok to adopt a position of smug
superiority and throw insults at Christians, so I don't see
what's wrong. And you are wrong to suggest that Christians must
believe in "creationism". The lunatic fringe in the USA may,
most Christians, including the RC Church, don't adopt their
leaden literalist position.

Matthew Huntbach
From: ulick@stravinsky.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Samhain, how to celebrate...
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:25:46 GMT
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <Oct.7.18.28.13.1992.5145@pilot.njin.net> birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag) writes:
>
>Being of partly celtic descent, I'm trying to come up with a good [if slightly
>bastardized] way to celebrate Samhain.  

Dress up in a funny costume, and knock on people's doors, and if they don`t
give you any candy or fruit let the air out of their tires, or spray their
house with Gilette Foamy. or...

Actually, American celebrations of Halloween have become so tame and    
commercialized, I never hear of any tricks, apart from razor blades in candy
bars (a good one :-) ).

As kids we used to dip for apples, catch `em in our mouth, embed a myriad of
different objects in Barmbracks, etc..  Has anyone ever seen a brack over
here?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:18:11 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
>McSweens, Bruntsfield Place, Edinburgh do mail order. I don't know if
>they send abroad, but if anyone does - they will.

We go through this year after year.  You do it just to annoy me, don't you?

(:-)

I'd _die_ for a McSween's Haggis, I use to live just up the street from
McSween's in Bruntsfield Gdns.

Unfortunately neither the US nor Canadian Customs allow _any_ meat products
to be imported privately.  Foot 'n mouth, Mad English Disease, things like
that you know.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:25:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: cabell.1992Oct8.142530.21794
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University

ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>Americans!!  Taking this seriously:-).  Unless you hadn't noticed Ms. 
> O'Connor's
>entire act from her hairdo, illegitimate child, abortions, the bullshit
>about the American flag a while back are all designed to shock, to help her
>sell more records.  

This is too harsh; call her naive, confused, even foolish, and I
would not protest. I do not believe, however, that she is insincere.

>Most Irish people attempt to ignore her
 ^^^^
This is not true. For better or worse, Sinead has a large following
in Ireland. Even the Taoiseach met with her several months ago to
hear her views. But, of course, that might say more about Reynolds
than Sinead <grin> ...

>it was covered on the front page of the University rag.  It would be much 
>better to ignore her.

Ignoring her will not make her go away. Stop buying her records,
however, might do the trick.


-- 
Dan Resler                             
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences        email: dresler@cabell.vcu.edu
Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, Virginia, USA 23284-2014
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: King of the Republic of Ireland.
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:25:54 GMT

From article <1992Oct8.193320.22636@news.nd.edu>, by ulick@beethoven.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford):
>  
> Let's appoint Charlie!!
> 
> 

I think thats a great idea. Could we also interest you in some other
royal, lets say a Duke of York, or even a Queen Mother?

															GW
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:37:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
>Have other people noticed that in later posts Matthew expressed opinions
>that to me, at least, sound like some kind of Euro-Nationalism?
>In one post he called on people to buy European products rather
>than American, to increase European employment rolls.  To me this
>sounds remarkably like the American economic nationalists
>("Buy American -- Save Our Jobs"), except in the American case, the
>enemy is Japan.  At the moment.

I did not at any point express this opinion, or anything
remotely like it. If you fondly imagine that American imports
amount to anything much in this country, you are mistaken. My
stand is against the loss of national and regional cultures in
favour of a sort of worldwide culture which is essentially that
of the USA. This has nothing to do with material imports. I am
not concerned about the minimal impact on the balance of
payments that large-scale showing of American TV programmes
has, I am concerned about the effect on our culture. Your
comments are particularly ironic in the light of my opposition
to the Maastricht treaty, which I have expressed in this
newsgroup and elsewhere.

Matthew Huntbach
From: RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com (Aengus Lawlor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: King of the Republic of Ireland.
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:14:17 GMT
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

In article <1992Oct9.162554.19837@news.clarkson.edu>,
walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) says:
>
>From article <1992Oct8.193320.22636@news.nd.edu>, by
>ulick@beethoven.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford):
>>
>> Let's appoint Charlie!!
>>
>>
>
>I think thats a great idea. Could we also interest you in some other
>royal, lets say a Duke of York, or even a Queen Mother?
>
Wrong Charlie. Charles (pronounced char-lez) J. Haughey has some fine
credentials, (his own yacht, his own palace and his own island) but then
who could be called the Republican Party? Fine Gael would be come much more
interested in the title, but Fianna Fail wouldn't be inclined to give it up,
because they have the art of looking in both directions at once down pat.      W

>G
>
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com (Aengus Lawlor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare.
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:49:07 GMT
 n.edu><1992Oct12.221834.9454@vax.oxford.ac.uk><1992Oct14.004219.2893@morrow.stanford.edu>
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

In article <1992Oct14.004219.2893@morrow.stanford.edu>,
silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) says:
>
>        Suzanne Sims is decidedly _not_ left-of-center, and
>Graham Walker, Aengus Lawlor and Mr. Dunn seem to feel that
>her verbose display of less-than-politically-rectitudinous thought
>validates their attacks upon her. This is cheap; it is a function of
>what I can only term PC-bigotry.

In a word, bollox! My "attack" on Suzanne centred entirely on her repeated
misreading of other peoples posts. She is entitled to her politics, and
so is anyone else in this group, but she consistently replies to points
that were never made. Graham Walker said that there are poor people in
Mississippi and Alabama. He described the position of poor people in
New York State, where lives. Suzanne read that as a description of the poor
in Mississippi and Alabama, and, _even though Grahams post was factually
correct_, Suzanne threw a fit.

In response to Suzannes first ever post, asking about the term 'Black Irish'
I suggested that the only Black Irish I, and many other Irish people had
ever heard of, are the Black Irish of Mont Serrat, Afro-Caribeans who retain
Irish names and accents picked up from Irish Slave masters. Suzanne 'read'
that as me suggesting that she was descended from slaves, and was quite
indignant about it. I found her reaction amusing, but I'm annoyed at her
carelessness in reading that charge into my post.

Holly, you evidently have a bee in your bonnet about about Suzanne.
Admittedly, she needs all the help she can get, but 100% support for her
is, to put it bluntly, astounding. I know I don't expect consistence or
coherence from Suzanne, but I'd come to expect it from you, and I'm having
difficulty reconciling the reasoned debate I've come to expect from you
with the current round of "Southern Belles stick together". (Which might,
in a round-about kind of way get us back to the original thread about
"My country, right or wrong" patriotism).

>By that I mean the sort of 'reverse'
>bigotry which permits one to treat an open rightwinger or conservative
>with more contempt than one would use in disagreement with a moderate,
>or liberal. It is this intrinsic lack of fairness that I would tend to
>label 'intellectually bankrupt'.
If Ray's a bigot for treating Suzanne with comtempt, surely that makes you
a bigot for treating Ray with comtempt?

>|| Holly Silva                  I have nothing terribly clever to say||
Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: soc-Ulick
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:57:34 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:

>When I was a lad, in Scotland, "soccer" was regarded as the _English_ name
>for the game.

>Who cares, I hear you say?  Ok, OK.

>Anyway, I just looked "soccer" up in the OED, and found:

>    soccer n. cooloq.  Association football
>                       Assoc + ER

>Now this I found interesting.  To begin with, I'd no idea of this simple
>derivation of the word, and secondly the word soccer being a _colloquialism_
>for football, puts the argument firmly to bed doesn't it?

*Groan*

>Why do we always RTFM last?

To quote Tonto,

"What's this 'we' crap, paleface?"

Definitly my last word on socc-foot-Ulick-Dave-ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu (Mark Folse)
Subject: Ugly Americans-It's not our fault
Reply-To: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Mark Folse)
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 12:25:37 GMT

I hate to start this up again, since I think of the Internet as a place where I
can get away from what I do (politics, for a Member of Congress), particulary
soc.culture.celtic.  But I just had to post something on this.

According oto the University of Michigan (press release of Oct. 5, 1992) its
not our fault that southern Americans are teh way we are: its the result of our
forebearers, with the blame evenl6y divided between "swashbuckling English
cavaleirs" and "reinforced, some years later, by immigrants from the Irish and
Scotch border lands."

The southern (American?) propensity for violence is atributable, say these
sages, to the cavaliers being "steeped in teh standards of nightly honor and
[who] believed all insults must be answered with force."

The Scottish/Irish contribution  is explained thus: "[They] were heders, adn
hering cultures the world over seem to be inclined toward violence.

Please hold your flames until I can secure an email address for Richard E.
Nisbett, psychologist at teh University of Michigan Institue for Social
Research.
w roth
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Ugly Americans-It's not our fault
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:56:39 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <Bw6J5D.716@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> In total that lot left many more people dead and caused far more
> destruction than the US Civil War.  

 This is a morbid question, but is this true? I don't have the number off
hand but many of the examples you gave had relatively small body counts
whereas the US civil war had sometimes mind-boggling numbers of deaths.

> But Americans still have this peculiar
> image of Europe as a quaint backwater where political violence is something
> out of the ordinary.  It isn't.  This continent is far less politically
> tamed than North America.

 Depends upon what you consider North America - if we include central
America then I think both sides of the Atlantic, like just about every
other part of the world, comes out looking less than perfect....


			gln



Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: rkh@ucs.att.com (Bob Halloran)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: AT&T Universal Card Services, Jacksonville FL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:49:30 GMT

In article <CC.92Oct7111510@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>In article <23455@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>    I'm curious how Sinead's little act on the most recent Saturday Night
>   Live show is being taken in Ireland and the UK. 
>It's not being taken at all, because it's an American show and we don't see
>it here!  Why, what happened?

After doing the song 'War', she took an 8x10 glossy of John Paul II,
shredded it at arm's length, and said 'fight the real enemy'.  The
show quickly cut away to a commercial break.  Apparently NBC and the
local affiliates have been receiving many complaints as a result.

	Bob Halloran
	AT&T Universal Card
	Jacksonville FL

	rkh@ucs.att.com
Any similarity between opinions stated here and AT&T's 
  corporate opinion are purely coincidental.

"How can you tell a politician is lying?  His lips move..."
	-- M-m-max Headroom
"Read my lips - no new taxes" -- George H. W. Bush, 1988
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:43:00 GMT

imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:

>Matthew Huntbach (mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk) wrote:
>: 
>: Hmm, from my recall of Irish myths and legends, there is not
>: much about feminism in them, and a Celtic warrior hero might be
>: just a little upset if you slept with his wife.

> O.k..... how about all the great celtic warrior hero's who were trained
>by women. ( Cuhuliain ? )

>: 
>: Matthew Huntbach
>-- 

>		~~~~~/\~~~~~
>Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Fri Oct 16 18:15:21 WET DST 1992
>		~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wasn't this idea already discussed (about 1 month ago)??? I thought it
was shown there are a fair number of female Celts. 
--
"There is the smell of an election in the air. Some of you believe it is
the smell of tar and asphalt... I assure you, however, that it is indeed
the smell of an election." -   John Savage, Leader of the N.S. Liberals.
                           skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca St. John's, NF Canada