From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Help! My horse has turned into a Juvenile Delinquent!
Date: 17 Dec 1992 21:13:41 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.larc.nasa.gov

[...]
>This sweet-tempered young stallion who is a marshmallow at any other time 
>has recently gotten to the point (says the barn manager) where even she is
>afraid to lead him down the aisle because he rears and screams and
>does all sorts of stallion nonsense at other horses in their stalls. 
[...]

 My thoughts [for some reason, I'm assuming this is a nonbreeding
 stallion? Although you never say that :-) ]:

1. I'm the last one to say 'this is a physically related problem' for just
   about anything. But working with a stallion *is* different than working
   with mares or geldings. Stallions need more turnout time and more
   exercise. If you do not have time yourself, the only choices I see are
   to hire someone who does, geld him, or sell him.

2. Your 'margin of error' in discipline can be extremely small when working
   with a stallion. Discipline must be swift, sure, and controlled. If you
   let something go, problems erupt swiftly and get way out of hand. If you
   over discipline, you risk retaliation-'The Training of a Killer.' If
   you're discipline is unsure, there will always be 'testing'-some
   of which he is sure to win (he already has).

3. You say you do not trust any of the professional trainers in the area to
   work with your horse, but you have to recognize that every time someone
   leads your horse down the aisle, they are training him. Every time 
   someone puts their hands on your horse, they are training him. If you
   cannot be there to turn him out every day, then whoever does the turnout
   must be properly instructed in how to deal with a stallion. 

4. Don't go into a panic, but....
   I have heard just recently that Stallions that drop late are more 
   prone to testicular cancer. For this reason alone, you might want to
   consult with your vet about gelding him. It would be awful to
   lose him a few years down the line for something so avoidable. The
   gelding for such cases can be tricky....closer to surgery than
   'gelding' in the normal sense. I'm assuming your situation with vets
   is better than your situation with reliable professional trainers.
   The last thing you need is to end up with a staggy gelding! 
   Anyway, a vet exam certainly seems called for, even if just to
   keep a careful watch on him to (hopefully) catch things early. 

5. He has apparently discovered suddenly that he is a stallion.
   He will have to be handled accordingly from here on out, even if you get
   this particular problem straightened out. He must learn that when
   'in hand' he is to behave. All it takes is one time for someone to
   let him get away with something and you're in trouble.

6. For practical advise, I suggest you AND WHOEVER IS GOING TO HANDLE
   HIM AT THE BARN visit a *reputable* facility used to dealing with
   stallions. If they are true horsemen, they will not mind giving you
   a few pointers. Be absolutely up front with them. Offer to pay
   their handler for a few lessons with your horse, maybe. We're talking
   ground manners, here....it could be one of their grooms is a great
   hand with a stallion...it doesn't take their top trainer (at
   accordingly higher prices). It could be that their 'top trainer'
   is great under saddle, but doesn't know didly about ground manners!
   If they don't have time, ask if you can just 'stay out of the way
   and watch.' Explain why you do not want to geld him. They will 
   appreciate your reasoning. (Unless your reasoning is that you
   think it is 'cruel.' It is far more cruel to keep a nonbreeding
   stallion and not let him get enough exercise, especially if this
   thing about testicular cancer is true.) I, for one, applaud your
   efforts to deal with his psychology, not his anatomy. Too many
   people go to the vet or the ferrier long before they'll blame
   their own inadeqacies as trainers!

7. I am certainly not an expert on stallions, but I also have no
   inward bias about whether or not people should have a stallion
   or not. I've seen it go both ways. I've seen 'marshmallow' stallions
   and I've seen ones you can't go near. Certainly the training makes
   90% of the difference...but you can't ignore the other 10% that
   makes them individual cases. I boarded for many years at a 
   breeding farm, and while the stallions were not mine, I did
   handle them occasionally. You can NEVER forget you've got a
   stallion on the other end...even if he is being a dollbaby at the
   time. All it takes is one mare in season for him to question his
   handler's authority, and a handler that doesn't properly respond
   for someone to get hurt. If you feel confident that you can 
   straighten him out, you are still going to have to give the
   barn's handlers a few lessons in dealing with him. Let them
   handle him with you watching after you've settled him down
   first, but from what you have indicated, I really think you need
   someone there to work with you - you don't have to 'send them
   to a professional trainer' to get a professional to work with you.

patty