From: thiru@lgc.com (Thiru Bollam)
Subject: Re: Leadership and Vision
Followup-To: thiru@rama.lgc.com
Organization: Landmark Graphics Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:35:16 GMT


!  vijay@ingres.com (Vijay Debbad) Fri Dec 11 15:17:33 1992 comments:
! 
! Yes, you are right. We should have all condemned the Supreme Court and support
! those fanatics for demolishing that damned structure. Especially knowing that 
! will spark off riots and lead to the deaths of thousands of people. It was an 
! impulsive and fanatical act, symbolizing the hindu ego, supremacy and
! intolerance. I condemn those $%^&*().
! 
    It's neither impulsive nor symbolizes hindu supremacy. It's very well
    planned and symbolizes hindu mystic beliefs. (I only wish bloodshed
    shouldn't have taken place but for center's intervention).
    What is the Supreme Court trying to do? Is it trying to implement the 
    law of the land, where majority section of the people are not interested
    in caring to listen to its opinion? Or is it trying to enforce some stale
    laws which perpetrate communal hatred (you might have heard about its
    recent wise decision to increase the reservations upto 50%). Should it,
    I mean Supreme Court, try to enforce some protectionist policies, when
    liberalization (free trade) wave is in full swing across the nation.
    ( have you heard about the recent decision to make rupee compete in open
    market?). Isn't it time it should put democracy ahead of pseudo-secularistic
    policies and take the nation nowhere? Why don't we abolish this Supreme
    Court and take chance to get FREEDOM from this dirty politi..., and 
    have a more humane, justful, democratic constitution. Secularism will
    follow when democracy flourishes. So, DEMO is the catch. 
! 
! The govt was just trying to save some lives. 

    Am I seeing some humor here -(

! I don't think it has the intentions or guts or political naivete' to do it.

    I agree with you, on this point. It has no intensions on saving lives....

! Democracy does not mean you can do what the majority wants. It also involves
! basic rights for everyone. 

    You are right in the second sentence, basic rights for everyone. Whose 
    rights have been stolen when inanimate, unused, dilapidated structure 
    was brought down? By definition, DEMOCRACY means ' FOR THE PEOPLE, AND
    BY THE PEOPLE, ...'. In this(definition) context, you must intrepret
    as the majority of the people. And, UP govt., had satisfied this
    definition, in principle and spirit. (Remember, such silly issues should
    not be under the central govt. purview)
! 
! > ! >
! > ! >  6) If Democracy and Secularism are at clash on some issue, which side
! > ! >     do we take? If we want secularism over democracy, why can't we ask
! > ! >     our PM to take over all the democratic institutions, and 
! > ! >     rule as a dictator? Probably he can uphold all the secular principles!!.
! > ! >     If we prefer democracy to prevail at all times, then isn't Democracy
! > ! >     means "for the people, and by the people....(I believe, this means
! > ! >     majority of people)". By this definition, 
! > ! >     Peoples' Rep, Kalyan Singh(BY the people) has done what he promised
! > ! >     FOR the people.  Shouldn't this be treated as a State issue?
! > ! >  Isn't it time, CENTRE stop interfering with the states on silly issues?
! 
! Hey, what about the court's decision ?

     Again, I have already vented out my frustrations(!) before, on this.
! 
! > ! >
! > ! >  7) Ban the RSS/VHP/BJP, is it a shrewd step taken by PM? These
! > ! >     organizations, I believe, probably represent(albeit, strongly) the
! > ! >     beliefs of the Hinduism(may not be all the time!), rooted in India. 
! > ! > So should this 'ban' be considered as the SLAP on those mystic beliefs??
! 
! Not shrewd, just desparate attempt to bring things under control.
! 

     Control, what and in which manner? Isn't it DICTATORIAL control?????

! > ! >Thiru
! > ! >
! > 
! 
! Yes, I agree to the idea in your abstract, that petty and dirty politics
! is the cause of all the mess. The mullahs invoke islam for their votes and
! bring up the passions. Else, the muslims may actually vote on non religious
! issues ! ( God forbid !) And the Hindu politicians saw the potential in this
! and have started using the same trick. If the Hindus and the Muslims stop
! doing things emotionally, forget what happened 500 years ago in the age of
! barbaric rulers, and start behaving rationally, then all these politicians
! will lose their votes. And many innocent lives will be saved. I wish these
! misguided fanatical idiots from both sides converge at some point and kill
! each other, rather than becoming a nuisance. And the point where I agree with
! you is the need for honest and secular leaders with sufficient strength and
! integrity to face up to these rabble rousers and stand for equal rights for
! all people. We had a few with promise, very long ago. Alas, they are sometimes
! killed by Godseys. 
! 
! 	~vijay

    vijay's wish:"I wish these misguided fanatical idiots from both sides 
                  converge at some point and kill each other, rather than 
                  becoming a nuisance." --picked from last para.

    I fully converge with your wish. And let's all sincerely hope and wish,
    and show pro-active support for such ideologies.

    I also feel, Secularism should not be misinterpreted as extreme 
    toleration towards others when they don't even value your constitution
    (although, it stinks). I believe, Indians (Hindus) have exhibited
    extreme cooperation with jains, jews, christians, etc living in India, or
    for that matter extra-extreme tolerance towards muslims. Why should
    there be problem only with muslims, why not others? The common denominator
    is education among the minorities which have lived peace fully with us.
    Whenever an Indian is in conflict with muslim, why should he be publicized
    as a Hindu FUNDAMENTALIST, and non-secular. What happens to the cooperation
    that we show with other guys?? "This Secularism word is a buzz-word to 
    attract this misguided moderate Indians". Muslims should strive hard 
    (taking jews in India as example, their fore fathers have taken the oath to     respect India and its beliefs and strive towards stronger India....), 
    and start inculcating the habit of respecting hindus and their beliefs. 
    Unless, this happens, there is no place for Secularism, in India. 
    Get real guys, It can't go one-way.


   Thiru
   thiru@rama.lgc.com

   PS: My job responsibilities do not include posting such articles and thus
       my employer is not responsible for my opinions.