From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Subject: Re: Reply to Charles Hedrick
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:09:23 GMT

I have a few questions for hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick),
who writes:

>I fear you're being optimistic.  Gallup has been looking at attitudes
>towards the Bible for the past couple of decades.  In 1990, 42%
>believed it was literally true, compared with 40% who believed it was
>inspired.  (This is a survey of the population, not Christians.

Wait a minute. 42%: literally true?. 40% inspired? Does this 
mean only 18% believe it was neither? I don't think we're getting
the whole story here, Charles.

>Presumbly among Christians, the fraction who believe in the "literal
>word of God" is somewhat higher.  A survey by a different group came
>up with 59% of Americans saying it is the "literal word of God".  One

Of course: literal <== literary.

Note that this is not the same as 'virtual' or word-for-word; I 
suspect however, that I may be giving more credit to the respondents
for their verbal acuity than their survey answers might merit.

>wonders how important some of them think this is though, since only
>about 40% answered correctly questions such as "name the 4 gospels" or
>"who delivered the Sermon on the Mount".)  These percentages have been

Hmmm. Who was the survey sample, anyway? 

>fairly stable since 1978.  There was a big change from 1963 to 78,
>with "literal" dropping from 65% to 38%, and it has stayed around 40%
>since.  Conventional wisdom (and statistical evidence) says that
>conservative churches are growing, while liberal ones are shrinking.

I will go out on a limb and predict that this trend is about
to change in a big way. I'd say the next 10 years. Either that
or a resurgence and jihad.

>The term "mainline" is currently rather misleading.  They may have
>been the mainstream 100 years ago, but I believe now the mainstream in
>the U.S. is "evangelical": Baptists and various groups from the
>Wesleyan and Pentecostal tradition.  And Roman Catholics, who are by
>far the largest denomination.  They are also growing rapidly on a
>world-wide basis, though I'm not sure about the U.S.

Here's an area where we might have real disagreement. I think these
groups (particularly Pentecostal's and to a lesser extent
evangelicals) tend to get more press than their numbers.

And now for something completely different:

>make sure the other guy obeys.  I believe it is possible to have a
>balanced Christianity, but it tends to degenerate into either legalism
>or agnosticism and apathy.  So far I don't think we've done a very
>good job of institutionalizing the perspective that Jesus was trying
>to teach.  Not surprising, since in some sense the perspective is
>anti-institutional.

And yet, I would think that >you< have this figured out for 
yourself. Will you not share your reconcilication?

I agree that Jesus is very anti-institutional; certainly the
liberation theology of Central/South America is a testament
to that. This brings us to conservatism:

>...  Many
>of our conservative brothers and sisters have very warm hearts.  While
>I do not like their legalistic approach to ethics, I see every sign of
>lives centered around the desire to show love to the people around
>them.  It's necessary to keep in mind the distinction between Usenet

Generally (IMO), when people say "conservative" either about religion
or about politics, they are either referring to a social or fiscal
conservatism. Liberation theologians would argue that Jesus's life was 
a testament to provoking conservatives of either stripe.

If Jesus had a prophetic message, if Jesus was challenging the 
unquestioned societal structures and strictures conservatives
espouse, isn't it incumbent upon Christans to follow his example,
and where does this leave the conservatives?

Who after all, is speaking the prophetic voice? Isn't the prophetic
voice (i.e., Jesus) calling for either a radical conservatism, or
essentially the complete overthrow/overhaul of the U.S. conservatism
we know as corporate america?

Dano

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