From: tychay@juliet.caltech.edu (Chay, Terrence Y.)
Subject: Re: Books
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:25:00 GMT

Replay to: Article <1992Aug12.201707.12285@src.umd.edu>  tedwards@src.umd.edu 
Thomas Grant Edwards writes...

>Is Phrack still writing stuff?  (Been a long time out of the computer
>underground for me)  Gee, if they still are, I bet they have GIFs and
>movies and sounds plus the ASCII...

yep!  I believe you can get a copy Phrack-40.  I don't think that there are 
any GIFs movies or sounds- just lots of ASCII.

-------------------
Seriously, I think Joseph Long's idea is a good one (even if it was made half in
jest).  (and yes, Joe, it would be phun :-)
A Cyberpunk electronic magazine should not be brushed off so easily.

Possible Arguments against it may be (paraphrased):

PAPER IS THE MEDIUM OF CHOICE
   Well, I agree, Grolier's Encyclopedia for the CD-ROM failed basically because
people didn't buy encyclopedia's for their information... they just wanted to
_have_ all those matching harbound books.  But I do not think paper is always
_the_ medium of choice for _all_ information.  Just the fact that, people are 
reading these words on a computer screen is proof of that.

the advantages of electronic media should not be overlooked:
a) grep-ing eliminates the need for serious indexing.
b) In media "timely" articles of information, I see little need of the 
   permenance provided by paper (phone books, newspapers, magazines, USENET
   posts).  For example: How many people would actually print out this post?
   Answer: None- you probably have more desire to save a piece of shit from
   falling off the newsreader than this post.
c) Some media is better kept easily accessable then actually owned.  ("if I want
   it than I'll ftp it from the archive" is the modern equivalent to "if I want
   it I'll check it out of the library").  Why do you still use a library?  Why
   don't you still keep all your back issues of _Byte_? =)
d) Is hell cheap (right now).  Unless you are using Compuserve :-7
e) I must confess I have never read an issue of _Mondo_2000_, and reading the
   posts it sounds like an interesting magazine.  But (also from the posts)
   judging how rare the early issues of it are, it seems it has taken on
   a "collector" type status (like a comic book or a stamp)- but isn't this
   counter to a more "cyberpunk"- always available attitude?  (Perhaps, I'm 
   confusing cyberpunk with that Steven Levy book I read once?)  It is not the
   fault of the editors, its the fault of the media.  (Uh oh.  Not another
   _information_brokering_ post in disguise?)
f) If it is in electronic form it is open to literally last minute changes 
   and additions.  What's the lead time of Mondo 2000, anyone?  Errors can
   be corrected on the actual text after publication, no erratum necessary.

IT WOULDN'T BE CYBERPUNK BECAUSE ELECTRONIC MEDIA IS ELITIST
a) This is alt.cyberpunk right?  I didn't actually type "g alt.grumpy.old.man"
   by mistake?  (i know, who am i to bitch, i'm still using VNEWs... that's
   getting fixed.)  The point is, cyberpunk has become intertwined (sp?) with
   computers and the net (thank you William Gibson?), and it seems that a mag
   that claims to herald the future culture, SHOULD express itself in the media
   of the future culture.  When I subscribed to a.cp I was not looking a
   _Reader's_Digest_ summary of the cyberpunk genre and movement (i could read
   the futureculture FAQ for that ;-), nor would we expect the same cyberpunk
   articles to appear in _Modern_Maturity_.  This was, I think, Mr. Long's
   point in his original post, and it is a point well taken.
b) If electronic media is elitist then we're all elitists.  Hey I'm sorry, it's
   not my fault.  If I had my way, only back-to-nature trancendentalists would
   own 486s (the rest of us would have at least an Iris 4d); there would
   be T-1 lines in every house, apartment, and cardboard home in the world; and
   computer literacy would be taught before potty training.  *sigh*
c) Electronic media does not preclude written media.  Just find someone to print
   out the magazine (or just selected parts).  What would stop anyone?
d) If anything, electronic media is the opposite of elitist.  More and more
   BBS's have ftp access for a minimal fee-  for the halfway intelligent there
   are even free BBS's with enough login time to easily download a magazine
   Electronic media is the easiest form of media to copy.  Digital media means
   the copy will be as good as the original.  Archiving would mean that it will
   be aways available.  If you don't want to read it, there would only be a
   negligable increase in the universe's entropy (no landfills).  And don't 
   most of the income from magazines come from advertising?

ASCII sux
a) That's why Compuserve invented GIF and someone (else?) invented JPG.
b) How much music do you hear coming out of your lastest issue of Mondo 2000?
c) How about vr games?
d) Some enterprising young fool could TeX it for the rest of you die hard paper
   users.

So why am I not doing it?
  "There are those who make history, and those who write about it."
                    -Ben Franklin

I really don't think its a bad idea.  that's all.

"What's this poser doing posting on alt.cyberpunk?"
---------hey, it takes all kinds!

-------------------------------------------- 
this is my .sig, deal with it.

          -terrychay
                 TYCHAY@CITJULIE.BITNET
                 tychay@juliet.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk