HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russb@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (russell.e.brodfuhrer)
Subject: Re: Golf in Nassau  in Bahamas
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.082218.26739@julian.uwo.ca>, operator@julian.uwo.ca (Operator) writes:
>                 Anyone have information on golf courses In Nassau?
>          We'll be staying at Club Med On Paradise Island in March break.
>          What can we expect to pay in golf fees?   

We played three courses there several years ago. I believe the names
of two of them have changed.

- Paradise Island Golf Club. You'll be able to walk to the course from
  Club Med. From what I remember, the course was fun, with a couple of
  good par-3's along the ocean - one of which is beside the nude beach.
  There was one particularly long par-4, which starts from an elevated
  tee practically on the beach, and played into the prevailing wind to
  a green which seemed miles away. The course is a Dick Wilson design.
  Greens fees were under $20.

- Cable Beach Golf Club - though this one has changed names. This course
  is in the other side of Nassau from Paradise Island, about 10-15 minutes
  by taxi. Its an old Deveraux Emmett design. I enjoyed it, but can't
  remember much of the routing. It, like Paradise Island, wasn't very
  punishing. Greens fees were about $20.

- Divi Bahamas - has also been the South Ocean Club and may have yet
  another new name. This one is all the way across New Providence Island
  from Paradise Island (30 minute taxi ride), not too far from the airport -
  we played it on the way to the airport prior to leaving. This was the
  most demanding of the three courses - tighter, longer, quicker and more
  contoured greens. Still quite scenic and fun. The course is a Joe Lee
  design. Greens fees were about $25-$30.

Russ
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels)
Subject: Golf News
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:05:18 GMT


Wouldn't it be nice just to play Kapalua, musch less play it for a share of
$800k.  


	KAPALUA, Hawaii (UPI) -- Defending champion Mike Hulbert and Davis
Love III shared the lead Thursday after the opening round of the $800,
000 Kapalua International.
	Hulbert and Love each shot 6-under-par 65s to take a one-stroke lead
over Duffy Waldorf, Donnie Hammond and Tom Purtzer. Hulbert beat Love in
a sudden death playoff in last year's tournament.
	Two courses are being used at the Kapalua Resort on Maui for the
first two rounds -- the Bay course and the Plantation course.
	Hulbert and Davis both played on the Bay course, which is a par-71
compared to the Plantation's par-73. The Bay course is more than 1,000
yards shorter than the Plantation.
	Brad Bryant recorded the best score of the day on the Plantation
course with a 4-under 69.
	PGA money-leader Fred Couples shot a 68 Thursday on the Bay course.
	The Kapalua International is sanctioned by the PGA, but is not an
official tour event.

------
Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
Real-Time Systems Program
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron selection)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:49:14 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <1dl0vlINNk9d@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> mjb@mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au (Michael Beeching) writes:

>	Very interesting discussion about forged clubs, but
>could someone please tell me what the RESULTS (I know about feel)
>are like, when a forged club is hit off centre, as opposed to
>other types of clubs! Is the only difference in the feel, or
>does the shot match the discomfort?

I think your question was best answered by an article in Golf Illustrated about
a month or two back. It tested 3 clubs by RAM - a Cast-Cavity back Laser ZX, a
Forged Cavity-Back FX and a Forged Blade Tour Grind. So in this test, it had
the three most popular material/design consideration in iron-club making.

To summarize (without permission), the ZX hit consistenly longer than the rest
with the Tour Grind slightly longer than the FX. I don't know how this happened
as I expected the FX to be longer. I don't recall the dispersion results but
I think the forged Tour Grind were the most accurate on well-hit shots. As for
"feel", I don't think such subjective analysis ever occurred during the test.

The issue is worth checking out.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels)
Subject: Golf News
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:31:07 GMT

read this from the UPI.


	LA QUINTA, Calif. (UPI) -- PGA champion Nick Price parred the first
hole of a sudden-death playoff Wednesday to beat Tom Kite and capture
the $1 million Grand Slam of Golf, a 36-hole tournament that featured
the winners of golf's four 1992 grand slam events.
	Price earned $400,000 for the victory at the 7,126-yard Jack Nicklaus
Resort Course at the PGA West complex. He sank his winning putt on hole
No. 1, a 401-yard, par-4.
	Kite, the U.S. Open winner, bogeyed the hole for the third time in
the tourney, and settled for the $250,000 second prize.
	Both had finished regulation play tied at 7-under 137.
	Kite, who struggled with a 75 in Tuesday's opening round, fired the
best single round of the two-day tourney on Wednesday -- a 10-under 62 --
to rally from a five-stroke deficit and force the playoff. Price, the
first-round leader with a 70 Tuesday, shot a second-round 67.
	Fred Couples, the Masters champion and leading money winner on the
PGA Tour, shot a 71 Wednesday and finished third at 3-under. He earned
$200,000.
	British Open champion Nick Faldo carded a second-round 71 and ended
up 1-under -- good for $150,000.
	``This has been a dream year for me,'' said Price. ``The PGA
Championship was by far the biggest, and this caps it off.''
	Price and then Kite birdied the difficult 18th hole, a par-4, 458-
yard hole.
	``On 18 my heart was beating so hard,'' said Price. ``I knew I had to
make that putt. There is nothing more exciting when putting then knowing
you have to make it.''
	Price sank an 18-footer for his birdie and then watched Kite make his
12-footer.
	Kite lost the playoff when he hit his second shot over the green and
into a bunker. He blasted out, but missed his 15-foot, par-saving putt.
	No. 1 was unlucky for Kite throughout the tourney.
	``I wouldn't like to play that hole again,'' said Kite. ``I'll be
kind and just say I don't like that hole.''
	Otherwise, Kite had a marvelous day with an eagle, 10 birdies and a
pair of bogies.
	``I was playing well and hitting a lot of good shots,'' said Kite. 
``But you don't expect to see rounds like this on a Jack Nicklaus
course. Today's round did not lose me the golf tournament. I lost it
yesterday.''
	The tournament originally was scheduled for Kauai Lagoons, but was
moved to La Quinta after hurricane Inike severely damaged the island of
Kauai in September.


--------
Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
Real-Time Systems Program
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig)
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:26:39 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern) writes:

>I have yet to break 100 on 18 holes, but I'm convinced I can learn to shoot
>under 90 with these clubs if I stick with it.  It's just a matter of time
>(and lessons and practice ...).

That's the attitude Richard!  Set your goal and go for it! Maybe next year
we will hear that you are trying to break 80!

Good Putting,
Mark
--
Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist
Convex Computer Corporation         koenig@convex.com
P.O. Box 833851  M.S. SAL           Phone: (214) 497-4298
Richardson, Texas  75083-3851       FAX:   (214) 497-4550
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron selection)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:56:53 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <1992Nov8.150430.6522@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman) writes:

>>I also have no doubt about the casting process creating a high-
>>quality clubhead - proof of which are the Accuforms and the Taylor-Mades.
>>Surely, there must be a reason, apart from manufacturing decisions, why forged
>>blades are still being made.

>New theory: It's not manufacturing reasons, its marketing!!!
>As long as golfers (not generally impoverished as a group) are willing
>to pay twice the price for "high quality feeling forged clubheads",
>why should the manufacturers not sell it to them?  (And laugh all the
>way to the bank.)

Yup, I agree with you there. Don't you notice how the newer ads mention
about "feel" ? About a year or two ago, the ads were always claiming about
forgiveness and game-improvement. I guess the game-improvement ad gimmick has
lost steam and has turned to "feel" as another attraction.

>Bingo!  My point exactly!  I abandoned rec.audio several years ago, when the
>"golden ears" started flame wars with the "objective testing" crowd about
>whether they were wasting their bucks on high end equipment that was
>indistinguishable from mid-fi in double-blind tests.

>I hope we're not about to start that in rec.sport.golf.

Amen.

BTW Dave, have you made a club with an R400 shaft ? Any comments about it ?
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: New American Golfer
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 00:00:00 -0600

Has anyone bit on the subscription to "The New American Golfer"? The
latest  (snake  oil?) on how to lower your scores--"you were born to
play--but golf instruction stole your birthright"......

A video, audiotape,manual, and magazine. I doubt if I'll  take  them
up  on  it ($87), but I'd like to meet their direct mail copywriter.
An excellent sell job with everything a golfer would like to hear.


                                   o o o o
                                  o        o
From Minnesota--highest per capita of golf nuts in the Nation!
David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com      o            o
                              o               o      |18>
____________________________o_________________ o o o |_________
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X My reality check just bounced.

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: kwc@elden.cse.nau.edu (Ken Collier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron sele
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:15:28 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff AZ

In article <1992Nov9.165517.10252@csc.ti.com> jimv@dadd.ti.com writes:
>In article 1dl0vlINNk9d@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU, mjb@mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au (Michael Beeching) writes:
>>	Very interesting discussion about forged clubs, but
>>could someone please tell me what the RESULTS (I know about feel)
>>are like, when a forged club is hit off centre, as opposed to
>>other types of clubs! Is the only difference in the feel, or
>>does the shot match the discomfort?
>
[...]
>
>My background:  HAD Dunlop Maxfli Australian Blades
>                HAVE Wilson Ultra's
>
>Difference   :  If you hit them both dead center, they both send the ball
>                on its merry way.  No "feel" differences...

[...remainder of subjective study deleted...]

Vahz, you're comparing apples and  oranges.   In  answer  to  the
question  above (with reference back to my earlier posting) there
will be NO difference in the results when  a  ball  is  hit  off-
center,  between  a  forged and cast club.  Providing, of course,
that they are design exactly the same!

My point is to divert the discussion from one of  "feel"  differ-
ences between cast and forged to differences in clubhead designs.
My argument is that you notice a difference between your Maxfli's
and  your  Ultra's  simply  because  of  the  differences in head
design.  The whole point of cavity back is to "forgive" a mishit.
Blade's aren't as forgiving.  So, if you play blades, the feeling
of a well-struck ball is dramatically different than the  feeling
of  a  poorly  struck  ball.   With a perimeter weighted club the
difference is not so dramatic  thereby  leading  people  to  talk
about  differences  in  club  "feel".  However, the manufacturing
process has nothing to do with that feel.

Ken Collier                            Internet:kwc@elden.cse.nau.edu
College of Engineering and Technology 		
Northern Arizona University
Flagstaff, Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Balata Balls
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:12:35 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   6 Nov 92 23:32:51 GMT
>FROM:   Yu Chang <yu@pyramid.COM>
>
>In article <1992Nov6.135552.1006@altair.selu.edu>, zba@altair.selu.edu (Brian Acosta) writes:
>|> In article <15582@chalmers.se>, olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius) writes:
>|> > that pro's can't _feel the difference between a ordinary two-piece
>|> > ball and a balata three-piece ball.
>|> 
>|> I cant believe that you would say that those sorry little two piece rocks could 
>|> compare to the feel of a balata ball.  Which side of the club do you strike
>|> the ball with?  Hint -- Its the side thats flat with grooves.
>|> 
>
>I read the same article on golf digest too.
>It was just like the test between the old coke and new coke.
>Those who insisted there is a difference could not distinguish them.
>
>|> > Olof Daunius: olof@tfd.chalmers.se
>|> > Who plays forged irons, because he likes the look of them :-)
>|> 
>|> Brian Acosta                      Who plays with balata balls, because
>|> Systems Programmer                coated rocks suck.
>|> Southeastern LA University

You can sure as hell tell the difference in how balata/surlyn *sound*.


-- 
jim tims 
"And if you're a miner, when you're too tired and old and sick and stupid
to do your job properly, you have to go, whereas just the opposite applies
with the judges."  Beyond the Fringe

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Richard Madison)
Subject: Golf Handicapper Update
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:18:22 GMT


Hi,

	I am currently working on my PC based Handicapper, version 2.0.
I would like to thank those who downloaded verison 1.0, and replied with
many useful suggestions.  If you did not download verison 1, you can
email me requesting it, or you can ftp it from wuarchive/wustl/edu in the
pub/MSDOS_UPLOAD directory.  The file name is CCS10.zip.golf.handicapper.
	If you have any suggestions about what sort of stats you would
like to see, please email me.
	I am especially looking for the following...

	- Funny quotes about golf, by famous golfers, or anyone else
	- A Name for the program.  The current name Country Club Scorekeeper
	  doesn't cut it for me.  

Thank You


Richard Madiso

rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: dowdym@tdd.sj.nec.com
Subject: New Equitable Stroke Control
Organization: NEC America
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:59:34 GMT

As john@sequent.com mentioned in a previous posting, a new
Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) formula will become effective
beginning January 1, 1993.

This new format will limit per hole scores as follows:


Course Handicap    Largest Score Allowed
                         on a Hole
---------------    ---------------------
    under 10                6
    10 - 19                 7
    20 - 29                 8
    30 - 39                 9
    40 - 49                10
    above 49               11

There will be no limit to the number of holes that the high scores
may be used on.  For example, an 11.6 index golfer playing a round
on course with a slope rating of 125 would have a course handicap
of 13.  Following the completion of play, this golfer should adjust
any score on his/her card that is larger than 7 down to a 7 prior
to posting the score for the round.

According to the letter from Dean Knuth (USGA Director of Handicapping),
this formula should be easier to remember and use, and may cause
handicap indexes to increase from 0.3 to 0.7 points.  Since handicaps
are calculated using the lowest 10 of the last 20 rounds, and since
adjusting does not occur as much in the low 10 scores, the USGA believes
changes in handicaps will not be very significant.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig)
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:19:14 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Jim White <JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>One becomes a highly skilled golfer by hard work, practice, and gifts of
>athletic talent, and mental stamina.

Too true...I learned the game over 18 years ago...clubs were clubs, and what
I had was not great, but I still learned.

>For the purposes of stirring some debate I'm going to suggest that all new
>golfers should be advised to purchase used Irons of the 'Tour Blade' genre
>rather than be advised to spend alot of money on new cavity back game
>improvements clubs. These neophyte golfers should be advised to play with these
>clubs until they shoot a score lower than 85 on a golf course with a slope
>rating of 113 or higher.

Agreed.  I have had a set of tour blade Powerbuilts for over 10 years now.
All my golfing buds tell me to get a new set of this or that, but guess what,
I can still shoot in the mid-seventies on just about any course on any day.
Do I think a new set of $500 irons is going to help my game? Hell no.
Do I think if I played more than once a week and hit some practice balls
during the week I might improve? Possibly.

Clubs are clubs, but your swing and ability is where it all starts. Fix the
start before you change the finish!

Good putting!
Mark
--
Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist
Convex Computer Corporation         koenig@convex.com
P.O. Box 833851  M.S. SAL           Phone: (214) 497-4298
Richardson, Texas  75083-3851       FAX:   (214) 497-4550
From: zba@altair.selu.edu (Brian Acosta)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Balata Balls
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:55:52 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

In article <15582@chalmers.se>, olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius) writes:
> that pro's can't _feel the difference between a ordinary two-piece
> ball and a balata three-piece ball.

I cant believe that you would say that those sorry little two piece rocks could 
compare to the feel of a balata ball.  Which side of the club do you strike
the ball with?  Hint -- Its the side thats flat with grooves.

> Olof Daunius: olof@tfd.chalmers.se
> Who plays forged irons, because he likes the look of them :-)

Brian Acosta                      Who plays with balata balls, because
Systems Programmer                coated rocks suck.
Southeastern LA University
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:39:19 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <92315.082549JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Jim White <JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>For the purposes of stirring some debate I'm going to suggest that all new
>golfers should be advised to purchase used Irons of the 'Tour Blade' genre
>rather than be advised to spend alot of money on new cavity back game
>improvements clubs. These neophyte golfers should be advised to play with these
>clubs until they shoot a score lower than 85 on a golf course with a slope
>rating of 113 or higher.

I like this approach. However, I believe that one factor to be considered here
is the determination level of the neophyte golfer. The new golfer could start
with a set of good used blades. My concern would be that pretty soon this guy
would be victim to all sorts of stings and shocks from the mis-hits, and this
fellow will think golf is a hard-to-take-up game and would eventually lose
interest. On the other hand, if this guy was equipped with a good used set of
game improvement clubs - perhaps he would experience less sting and shock,
indirectly providing him more pleasure from hitting the ball, and in effect
raising his interest in the game.

Don't you think that the golfing boom in the recent years were partly a result
of game improvement clubs ? That because of these game improvement clubs, it
made it easier for all the new golfers to take up the game and stick with it ?

Anyway, back to your approach - how about having the new golfer (95 and up
scores) start with a set of good used game-improvement clubs ? Then when they 
progress to shooting high 80's to low 90's, move on to good used tour blades ?
By the time they reach this point, the golfer probably has a keen interest in
the game and possess the determination to improve his score. The blades should
be a big help in teaching him how to improve the quality of his swing. Then 
when they are really shooting well, they go for their dream set whatever it 
is ?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: engerise@rtsg.mot.com (Mathew Engeriser)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Club Length
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:02:02 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group

I am thinking about making a few clubs over this winter.  I've sent for
the catalogs (golfsmith, golfworks, etc...) and have done some reading
on various factors of the clubmaking process (loft/lie/swingweight/etc...).
At this point, there is one question that I have that has gone unanswered:
how long should the various clubs be?  I assume its based on height, posture
during swing, etc...  Can someone give me some more info?

thanks,matt
From: olof@me.chalmers.se (olof daunius)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf News
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:43:39 GMT
Reply-To: olof@me.chalmers.se (olof daunius)

In article <1992Nov10.152512.6278@gw.wmich.edu>, x90sanson@gw.wmich.edu writes:
# > 
# > 
# > 	MADRID (UPI) -- Fred Couples and Davis Love III each sank birdie putts
# > on the final hole Sunday to give the United States a 1-stroke victory
# > over Sweden in the $1.1 World Cup of Golf.
# > 	Couples dropped a three-foot and Love holed a tough breaking putt to
# > give the U.S. the lead, and the Americans captured their 18th title in
# > the event when Per-Ulrik Johansson missed a five-foot birdie chance at
# > ---------
# > Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC
"Semper Fi"
# > Real-Time Systems Program
# > Software Engineering Institute
# > Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
# 
# whatever happened to spain??   It sucks They didn't end up 2nd or 1st!!! & at
# home!!!
# 
# 
# Oh well, maybe next year  (Yeah right!)
# 
# 
# Enrique

I think Rivero & Jimenez (who I think could give Seve & Jose' a good
match any day)
finished 4 or 5. Not that bad!


Olof Daunius: olof@tfd.chalmers.se
From: glenn@voyager.Berkeley.EDU (Glenn D. Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Woods by Golfsmith
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:05:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: voyager.berkeley.edu

   Does anyone have experience with the fully assembled(*) oversized woods
offered in the current Golfsmith catalog?   I'm specifically interested 
in the Kevlar Turbo, Big Gun, 747XL and Grey Hawk models.

   A little background:  I took up golf less than 1 year ago.  My swing
tempo (I'm clocked at about 75mph on the swing analyzer), and reliability are
less than they need to be to play good golf.  I expect both to improve,
however, as I practice regularly (at once a week) and will take lessons in
the near future.

/glenn

(*) I have a lot of respect for those who assemble their own clubs.  I don't
have the equipment/facilities to pursue this option.

 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf