HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta vs Taurus ?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:42 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1993Jan25.201605.3879@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#So how similar are they?  Can you swap parts from a 92 to whatever
#the Taurus equivalent is (like on real 1911-A1 clones) or are there
#subtile manufacturing differences that make them quite different?

With an older Beretta, maybe. On a Beretta 92FS/G/D/C, I seriously doubt
it. The newer Berettas use a slide-mounted decocker/hammer-drop safety,
and there are other minor differences--heck, there are differences
between the F and FS! (OK, that one really only affects the grip; the
grip from a 92F won't fit a 92FS due to the "slide stop." The hammer
pin had its head enlarged to remedy a non-existant problem for the
US Government contract.)

#The local gun store asserts that Brazil nationalized a Beretta 
#plant and is basically building Berrettas on Beretta tooling
#under a different name.  Is this true?  (And did they start 
#cheapening the metals or quality of labor used ... or kept the same?)

RUMOR ALERT!!!!

The Beretta plant was not nationalized; as part of the contract, it
was sold|turned over to the Brazilian government (that part is
definitely true). The rumors I've heard is that they retooled after
Beretta left, and the quality may have gone down (that part's
the unsubstantiated rumor). Of course, the guy who told me this
was lusting after a PT-92 stainless about a year later...go figure. :-)

The Berettisti might look down their nose at you, because you don't
have a "Real Beretta," but I don't pay any attention to that. (I am
one of the Berettisti (Model 92G), and I would choose a Beretta over
a Taurus, but the Taurus _seems_ to be a decent gun. I've never shot
one, but I haven't heard any complaints from the Taurus owner's I've
talked to. (One of them is a long-haired liberal-type journalist--maybe
there's hope yet for the media! ;-)

The rumors should be taken with a grain of salt--as I said, they're
unsubstantiated from my personal experience.

			James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	"God didn't make men and women equal. Colonel Colt did."
			--Maggie Zombro, "Reasonable Doubts"
From: morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:01 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

[discussions deleted - gist included opinions that wiping fingerprints
off cases in a home defense weapon could be misconstrued by
prosecutors.]

I handle my home defense weapon with a slightly oily cloth when I
preload it in the "readly alert" mode.  This cuts down on the oils and
salts that the gun has to endure during storage - but probably removes
fingerprints.  Is the net.opinion really strong on this issue?

Also - I use factory loads - partially jacketed hollow points (.357
Mag), would I be better off if I used a more conventional round (is the
hollow point a problem?

I can take e-mail if the net thinks these are too specific for general
comment.  Either way - thanks.

-- 
Bruce W. Morlan, Major, USAF             Air Force Institute of Technology
Deputy Department Head (Military)        AFIT/ENC
Department of Mathematics                WPAFB  OH  45433
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:38:50 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <PBLRXB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
#
#The best all time movie as far as correct firearms handling is
#"Tremors". If you haven't seen it, check it out; especially the rec
#room scene.

Whoever was the director or weapons advisor for the film ought to be
commended (and offered a lot more work).

I understand that Reba McIntire (sp?) actually does some shooting in
real life, but her survivalist husband in Tremors is, in real life, an
contributor to HCI. (Michael Gross).

I still catch my daughters quoting lines from the film while working
around the house.  (My wife is mystified by their references to "some
common household chemicals in the proper proportions".  I'm not going
to tell her...)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: cvakg001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: Walther??
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:41 GMT
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona


# [First let me put on my flame proof underwear...]
# 
# Like many expensive things, the quality of the Walther may be overrated. I
# saw a post here a while back to that effect and a gun mag review of the new
# P88 Compact that was disappointing.  The P7 on the other hand is _very_
# accurate.  I think the high capacity version P7M13 is just too fat.
# The P88 is available for under $900 (I saw $840 I think) - far less than the
# $1500 list price.  I suspect that if you spent the difference between the
# Walter and a less expensive pistol on ammo you'd have a more "accurate"
# gun/man system.
# 
# Hey, remember that "kinder gentler newsgroup stuff OK. :-)
# 
#  Chris
#  
Look Ma, no Flames!
 
Well, the cost of a Walther is not much of an issue, for I can get an 88 NIB
for around $550 so, the most expensive item on the list is the Hk P7M13 at
about $950. Additionally, I mostly shoot at paper, so the issues of unclean
endurance and carrability, aren't very critical. I clean Religiously. Accuracy 
is. Quality is. I think I am going to get a walther, and maybe later, when
money allows, a glock 20. Perhaps a Hk, now that I have seen/fondeled/striped
/viewed the P7 in action. It is really slick. I would still like to gather as
much info on the walther, glock, and Hks as I can possibly get. 

thanks,
---
John Ringloff
Email: cvakg001@vmsa.is.csupomona.edu
From: laird@pasture.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mossburg 500 (was Re: BEST SHOTGUN DEFENSE ROUND?)
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:19 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

@hermes.intel.com:bhoover@pdx254.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bruce Hoover) writes:

# I've got a Mossburg 500 with 20" barrel, pistol grip stocks. Yes those 
# 3" shells do thump ya. I'm thinking about putting a shoulder stock on it.
# I feel 2 3/4" would get the job done too though. (30-40yds)

I've got a Bullpup 500.  If you can get a Bullpup conversion for your 500,
I'd recommend it.  (Includes nice rubber butt pad.)

--kyler
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: To Drop Or Not To Drop ( was: Re: To buy or not to buy ? )
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:19 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <viking.727308697@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
#...
#	Female logic is the bane of the male existence.  At least, it
#seems that way.  Granted, female logic is often beneficial to us, but
#the sad truth is that there is little that can be done to sway such a
#thing quickly.  Thus, we must use stealth.  Leave a copy of American
#Rifleman on the coffee table, opened to the true stories section
#where people shoot in self-defense.  ...

In this posting, I'm not providing a solution. Instead, I have a
similar but worse problem. I'm considering to drop her because of
her attitude toward my guns/security plans. Let me tell my story 
and you guys can give me suggestions.

I have been seeing this girl for a short while. She grew up in a Michigan
rural area and is an attorney ( not my favorite type though ). Recently,
I found out that she used to a DA ( the anti-gun type ) and still has
a *VERY* strong prejudice against handguns. 

She even hates my security alarm and comments that I'm paranoid to
have all these things installed. Her reasoning is that no one is going
to bother me, and my guns will only hurt myself. She claims that she has
shot .22 rifles before. ( So, taking her to a range will not help at all. )
She points out that I'm living in my own "jail" by having all these
motion sensors and by having the "fantasy" of arming/defending myself.

So, do I have a solution to this problem? Guys?

David

-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | IEEE Member, NRA Member, HAM Operator
 Communication Services Research  | U S WEST Life Safety Team
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Defend your life in STEREO - Beretta & SIG 
 E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self defense hypothetical
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:55:51 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1993Jan26.143939.746@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rinehart) writes:
# ...
#There won't be any fingerprints on the brass to even
#make you a suspect.

  They are making this new wonderful type of handgun which doesn't
throw brass all over the neighborhood.  Instead it retains the
brass in the gun until you remove it.  There is even a handy
"ejector rod and star" to allow you to remove all the brass at
one time and control where it goes.

  I'd suggest a look into this modern technology.

--henry schaffer
From: mtxinu!sybase.sybase.com!bulldog!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Any Seecamp owners out there?
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:20:05 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.


Hi. Are there any Seecamp owners out there? This is my
first pistol, and I want to know how to disassemble it
for cleaning.

Any gossip or stories about them is welcome too.


--
Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608

NOT A DISCLAIMER!   THIS IS THE OFFICIAL OPINION OF AN IMPORTANT CORPORATE
                    ENTITY (NOT SYBASE).     FOR COMPLETE DETAILS SEND $10
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wanted: .308 varmint bullet suggestions
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:16 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1k12beINNhag@shelley.u.washington.edu> toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:
#The Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip works well on varmints out of a
#.308.  Even starlings are big enough to give good expansion.
#Penetration is adequate for deer and antelope in my experience,
#too.  BTs in my buddy's .308 PSS group well under 0.5MOA at
#100 yards.
#

Well, the bullets HAVE TO GO _SOMEWHERE_.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Suggestions for small hands
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:01:06 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

My wife is not thrilled with the Glock 9mm, but she found one
9mm handgun she likes a lot: the H&K P7M8.  Single stack magazine,
squeeze cocker, reliable, accurate, and relatively safe to carry, since
it is uncocked unless held ready to fire.

Downside:  Too damn expensive.  I thought it was funny-looking, but
I would put up with that to get my wife to shoot (and carry something
she was comfortable with).

-Paul


  / \ / \     Paul Stoufflet                          / \ / \
 |  / \  |    Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center   |  / \  |
 |  \ /  |    internet: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu  |  \ /  |
  \_/_\_/     All opinions are my own                 \_/_\_/
From: sporay@adm.brl.mil (Ralph Sporay)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NRA and Civil War
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:41:40 GMT
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab (BRL), APG, MD.


I resently noticed an NRA add in a Civil War historical magazine which
mentioned that six past presidents of the NRA had been generals during 
the Civil War. One was Grant who were the other five?
	[MODERATOR:  Off line please.... ]

sporay@arl.army.mil
**************************************************************************
"Hey guys, when we're in London if you see any PIRA take their guns and
 shoot them like in the movie Patriot Games, so the Brits will think were
 heros." - identified Warrant Officer after the Nov 14th bombing
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns used in assassinations
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:52 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research

I heard that .22 is used by pro. for assassinations.  I, however, by no means
saying Bobby Kennedy was killed by a pro.

In article <199301240349.AA15429@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
|> In article <9301231457.AA24104@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
|> #Here's a rather morbid question:  what were the makes and models
|> #of guns used in various assassinations and attempts?  For instance,
|> #an Italian Carcano was used on JFK; what was used in the murders
|> #of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy, and the
|> #attempts on Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan?
|> 
|> If memory serves, Bobby Kennedy was killed with a .22 revolver. (Which
|> proves that even a .22 can be a very deadly caliber...)
|> 
|>                                                     Frank Crary
|>                                                     CU Boulder
From: pdalidow@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pete Dalidowicz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Target .22 Recomendations
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:55:55 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <C1Guuo.C5L@world.std.com> archon@world.std.com (Timothy P Szczesuil
) writes:
#
#My SO and I are starting out with target .22s before moving on to
#larger calibers.  We've taken the NRA Basic Pistol and developed a
#fondness for one-handed shooting.  We are quite close to purchasing
#a Smith & Wesson Model 422 (6 in. barrel) and a Mitchell Arms
#Sharpshooter Auto Pistol.  My cheap choice would be a Magnum Research
#Mountain Eagle.  I would appriciate any information regarding these
#models or a recommendation of a good quality target .22 in the <$400
#price range.
#--
#              --Tim Szczesuil

The Ruger Mark II Government Model is a good choice.  It is about $325 but 
tends to be a little heavier than the high end (Hammerilli, Pardini) 
competition pistols which are about $1000.

                                 "Pistol" Pete D.
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Change in Colt AR-15 Carbine Policy!
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:56:45 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Saigon Smuggler) writes:

#In article <9301251946.AA03337@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU>, ccrafton@daewoo.math.indiana.edu (c.crafton) writes:
#|> I just ordered a Colt CAR AR-15 A2 in .223.
#|> Colt has changed their policy requiring a Police letterhead for purchase.
#|> Now "legitimate stocking law-enforcement dealers" can buy 1 CAR in .223 and 1
#|> 9mm CAR for a one-time deal only. Thedealer price is $699 and $659 respectively.
#|> For any dealers out there who qualify, I would jump and jump quickly.

#No I wouldn't.  I think Quality Parts/Bushmaster Firearms is much more flexible
#toward customers in term of rifle configurations and they make better rifles than
#Colt too.  Beside, they sell to everyone not just law-enforcement folks.
#I would pick QP/Eagle/Olympic over Colt any day.
#-tt

    Try selling the Quality Parts or Eagle Arms gun on down the road. Most
    prefer that little "pony" on the side. I just ordered recievers from both
    QP and EA. And I admit they are as good and/or better than the Colt.
    Personally, I think EA is at the top. However, the Colt has much more
    collectors value and resale value as well. Its the "real thing" so to
    speak. Uhuh.
From: creal@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard L. Creal)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Info needed
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:33 GMT
Organization: UB


Greeting All:

I am in need of a list of firearm and ammo distributors in the U.S.
If anyone could email me this information, it would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

rc
From: callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Kitten's Firearms handling (was:Seagal)
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:46 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1993Jan22.195351.26854@cbnewse.cb.att.com> random@nw4ep.att.com writes:
#Kitten Natividad appears in a new release called Tittillation III
#which starts out with an attempted bank robbery. Kitten and her girls
#rob the banks in the nude so that all the victims (all male) remember
#are the tits. Kitten is wielding a shotgun which she always keeps 
#pointed in a safe direction (as far as her girls are concerned) and
#whenever her gang members walk in front of the gun, she raises it to 
#avoid it being pointed at them. I thought it was impressive, especially
#considering that ti was a Hard Core porno flick.

Boy, you have "NRA" written all over you. It takes a special sort of man
to see a bunch of nekkid women and notice their gun-handling... :-)

Someone mentioned an ad for "Sniper", the new movie coming out next 
month. From what I've seen of the ads, it's not about Hathcock; it
looks like it takes place in South America, not in Vietnam.

Also...has anyone seen "Nowhere to Run", Van Damme's new movie? The
gun handling didn't look too bad, and there's a neat camera shot where
the camera "follows" the bullet from a rifle through the rear window
of a Trans-Am...

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	"God didn't make men and women equal. Colonel Colt did."
			--Maggie Zombro, "Reasonable Doubts"
From: keith@orioncmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:32:36 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

In article <199301230735.AA26183@news.service.uci.edu>, spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
|> 
|> I'm surprised nobody said anything about the reloading scene where he pours
|> the powder into the casing without a funnel. Just straight from the scoop
|> from the scale. That had to be a one grain at a time maneuver. Oh well :-)
|> I still think his movies are well above the rest. 
|> 
|> -Steve
|> 
Actually, I do this when using Bullseye, as I find it tends to stick
to my funnel :-(  I don't encounter this with the bigger flakes in
Blue Dot.  And yes I can pour 4.0gr of Bullseye into a 9mm case without
spilling it.
(p.s.  this foolishness will cease when my Dillon 550 arrives)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BEST .32 defense Round?
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:43 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <C17L5o.I1@acsu.buffalo.edu> bentkopj@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Paul J. Bentkowski) writes:
#Question:

#	For home protection use, taking into consideration walls,
#	richochet, velocity, ballistics, etc... what would be 
#	a good round to use in a .32 (Davis-P32) that has approx. a 3 
#        inch barrel...?

Sure--the best tactical .32 ACP ammo is reloads. I get an average of 1164
feet per second with 71 grain Remington FMJ bullets and 3.1 grains of
Unique out of my Walther PP. Of course, these loads will probably turn your
Davis to zinc dust--then you can buy your wife a decent gun that she can
actually depend on. 

I mean...don't you like her? 8^)

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco 1911 vs Springfield
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:44 GMT
Organization: BGSU

Many people have stated that the Norinco quality is unkown or questionable.
This last summer at the Bianchi Cup, my boss had the pleasure to talking
with Bill Wilson. At that time Wilson Guns had 20 Norinco 1911's that they
were converting into comp-guns. Bill was happy enough with the quality to
put his name and company on the line. 

Hopefully this will put an end to your questions, at least on frame and
slide quality.

Don Lambert
dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy ?
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:41:58 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

#Ah, masculine subterfuge vs femine wiles ;-)
#
#	[MODERATOR:  Let's not be too sexist here, nor give in to
#	 stereotypes.  The reverse scenarios are possible too, for
#	 example, my wife turns out to have had some latent interest
#	 in black powder shooting.  I never got into it before.  So
#	 she got me back for the time I said "happy birthday, dear...
#	 its a drill press!"  She got "me" a black powder replica for
#	 Christmas.  Guess now who is keen on going out to see "me"
#	 shoot it... :-)   (This kind of feminine wile I can handle...)]
#


My line has been in the past "This is something I have been looking for all
my life" and it usually works. Took my SLP to a gun show where she saw
something that caught her eye and she said "Look, I'll bet this is something
that you've wanted ALL of YOUR life". How can you pass up an excuse to buy
a new firearm? Even if is not really going to be yours.

gmk

	[MODERATOR:  Chris gets me on this one too, though.  After I
	 say "I'll bet this is something you've always wanted" she will
	 look thoughtful, immediately recognize the writing on the wall,
	 and then say "You know, I think you're right. Thanks."  Then take
	 it herself.....]
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm Glock problems?
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:08:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <C1711D.307@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

#I was talking to the 'smith at the local range I frequent, and he told me
#about a worrisome possibility with Glock 10mms. 
#He said that the 10mm has been known to crack frames (which I knew), but
#that, when it happens on a Glock, you're going to get a face full of slide,
#as the part which retains the slide is exactly where the frame cracks...

#Does anybody know if this has, in fact, happened? The only review I've
#seen of the Glock 10mm stated that it passed the FBI life expectancy
#using full-house rounds instead of FBI Lite...

	No, it has not happened.
-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com