HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mark Wuest <mdw@trumpet.att.com>
Subject: Re: Child Security and Childcare (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Originator: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:53:21 GMT

Geez.  No wonder there are so many flames in this group.

Two people (at least one did it privately) stated that they believed 
the child I referred to had classical separation anxiety.  Well,
we've seen it before (though admittedly not in a child this old),
and this was worse than any I have seen.  I'm not yet convinced
either way, if only because of *how* strongly the guy reacted and
because he bonded quickly to other adults when held.

Now, where did I judge anyone or draw a conclusion?  You guys are
so eager to flame, that you have to make something up to accuse
someone of.  The closest thing to a suggestion I got was to read
on child development (we have and will) before jumping to conclusions
(I never did - I asked an expert for her opinions on my reservations).

This is my last post.  I'll go back to being a lurker and let you
guys flame each other.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com                      |
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)        |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Examples for discussion (was Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long))
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:42:57 GMT
	<TIGGER.92Nov9225956@satyr.Sylvan.COM>
	<1992Nov10.173731.27390@cs.brown.edu>
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1992Nov10.173731.27390@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:

   I agreed with Tigger's responses on this one, except for the first case.
   My way of doing this is:

   >   "You tell your 6 YO that you need to vacuum the floor and he needs to pick
   >   up his toys.  An hour later and the toys are not picked up."

   First, an hour is too long to wait.  If I really care about a picking up,
   I set a 5-minute timer, about 10 minutes before I want to vacuum.  By
   the time the timer goes "ding", I expect the kids to have made reasonable
   progress towards picking up (not necessarily done).  If they haven't,
   then I confiscate the toys and put them in "toy exile" for a bit.

Huh? I didn't write the original scenerio. The 1 hour later is from
Judy. I also said that I wouldn't let it go for an hour. I think I
might have offered several ideas, but the one I did with my daughter
is pretty much what you do, except that I don't use a timer. When she
decided that she didn't want to pick up the toys I suggested, I gave
her a few warnings, then I picked them up, and she didn't get them
again until the next day. (This seemed sufficient, since this was a
first time)

-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kvt@willow.mitre.org
Subject: What does it mean when it's WHITE?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:58:26 GMT

I am asking this question for a friend who has a
two year old girl.

A few weeks ago, her daughter was producing
stool that was white.  This happened off and on for about
a month but the stool did not remain white the 
entire time (sometimes normal, sometimes yellow,
sometimes green, but mainly white and always of 
normal consistency) after taking amoxicillan (sp?)
for an ear infection (she forgot to mention the
strange stool to the dr. at the time) her daughter
had a BM that resulted in an almost floresent
green color.  Since then, the color had been normal. So 
the question is -  was the color the result of some
sort of intestional infection that was cleared up
by the antibiotic or is it a symptom of something
else?  I've also noticed that her daughter usually
has very dark circles under her eyes (if it relates)
but normally gets enough sleep.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Kathy T.
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Farewell...
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:02:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.BxB3G0.7p7
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA


            
This is my last day at Hewlett-Packard;  my family is moving to
North Carolina in order to be closer to our extended family.

It's been a real pleasure learning from all you misc.kidders;
I've gotten back a lot more than I gave.

Thanks.

Betsy Perry
-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
"The people who stayed home from the polls in 1968...  will still 
 be enjoying  the benefits of the Nixon Supreme Court when 
 Tricia and Julie  are finding silver hairs among the gold and the black."
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gauegc@fnma.COM (eddie caplan)
Subject: Re: Class Sizes
Reply-To: gauegc@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:55:15 GMT

I heard something new today about class sizes: In my kids' school, the
Maharishi School, the class sizes are quite small, generally under
fifteen.  In one in particular the class size is seven.

One of the kids in this class of seven is quite the perfectionist, and
it seems that she is having a hard time coping when the other kids, or
the other girls, all get 100% correct on an assignment and she gets
less than 100%.  In a larger class, this pressure would probably be
reduced because it is more likely that she would be able to find lots
of other examples of kids who did not get 100%.

This is a rare example of when a small class is, perhaps, worse than
a large class.

I have some observations about this specific case, though:

1. Because the class is small, perhaps the teacher could find other
ways of testing that do not exacerbate this child's perfectionist
problems.  For example: giving different kinds of tests to different
kinds of kids, e.g. oral, written, project, true/false, etc.

2. Because the class is small, the teacher was able to make a very
specific diagnosis of this child's anxiety.  Something, I believe, that
is more likly to have gone unnoticed in a larger class.

Comments?

---
eddie caplan                  internet: gauegc@fnma.com
fannie mae, 2h-5s                uunet: uunet!fnma.com!gauegc
3900 wisconsin avenue, nw        voice: (202) 752 8352
washington, dc 20016-2899          fax: (202) 752 3328

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: frankie@osc.edu (Frankie Harris)
Subject: Cute Things They Say (16 mos)
Organization: The Ohio Supercomputer Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:50:12 GMT

My 16-month old daughter, Lindsay, is tall but rather petite and my husband 
and I are always encouraging her to eat with words like, "yum yum" 
and "m-m-m good." This weekend she at least let us know that she's listening. 
Here's what happened as we "read" our Farm Animals" book together.

Me: There's the sheep, Lindsay. What does the sheep say?       
Lindsay: B-a-a.
Me: There's the cow. What does the cow say?
Lindsay: M-o-o.
Me: Look at the chicken. What does the chicken say? 
Lindsay: Yum Yum.

Too many attempts to get her eat chicken, I guess.


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:03:40 GMT

In article <25769@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>
>But disobediance might imply a threat to life.  If I catch a 7 YO
>playing with matches, he's going to get spanked.  If I catch him
>doing it again, he'll get spanked harder.  Absolutely no playing
>with matches will be tolerated.  If spanking doesn't work, I'll
>go through everything I can think of, and get help if nothing
>works.
>
>The result in this situation is all that matters to me.  If you can
>achieve 100% results using another method, go ahead.  Just be sure
>either it's 100% effective or you have a good insurance policy.
>
My question is: How do you know that you receive 100% results using
spanking?  Why do you think it is necessarily more effective to spank
than to use other methods?  I was spanked a lot by my parents, and I
remember that I actually preferred a spanking to a "logical consequences"
type punishment (ie time-out; loss of priveleges) because the spanking
was over quickly.  For this reason, I think that spanking is actually
less effective.  I think that it also contributes to the dichotomy a
child can set up between "don't do it" and "don't get caught".  I would
not presume to say that parents who do spank are necessarily worse parents, 
than those who do not; I realize that there are many other factors determining
this, and use of physical punishment can be a minor influence.  (I think
that there is likely to be a problem in cases where it is a major influence.)

I do not believe in spanking, though I have had bad days and spanked my 
children.  When I have done this, I have immediately apologized, explaining
that I was very angry, but I should not have hit them.

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: vivier@hamal.crd.ge.com (Barbara Vivier)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: A Balanced Diet (Was Re: Halloween Stories)
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:47:12 GMT
Reply-To: vivier@hamal.crd.ge.com (Barbara Vivier)
Distribution: usa
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

merle@jane.unx.sas.com and  judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
both write of their success in encouraging their kids to eat a balanced
diet by allowing their child to choose whenever and whatever the child
wants to eat.

We've been doing that but now find ourselves in the position that our
son turns his nose up at almost everything that we serve in spite of
the fact that he used to like many foods.  

There are two facets to this situation:
1) He prefers to rummage through the cheese drawer than eat most meats,
vegies or fruits
2) He prefers to have almost anything sweet instead of most meats, vegies
or fruits

So:

1) if one adopts the attitude of letting them eat whatever and whenever
they want, how does one avoid making separate meals for them and having
wasted food when they choose other foods than the ones you've just prepared?

2) if they want to snack on even "healthy" foods 10 minutes before dinner,
what happens when the rest of the family sits down to dinner?  (or is that
a myth about the family dinner?)

3) How does one encourage (but not force ;-) ) a child to try new foods?


I do believe in the philosophy presented.  We need help with the
implementation details.

thanks,

Barbara
From: elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: toy storage
Summary: dressers
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:41:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville IL

In article <1992Nov07.024828.2223283@locus.com>, judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
> 
> I find my children have far more toys than clothes.  For Mitchell we bought
> a small dresser for his foldables and a little locker (both from Stor, now
> defunct).  The furniture is small and fits nicely in his room.  Erin still
> uses her diaper table which has 4 drawers under the table and a small
> closet.  Alas her size 4 dresses don't hang well anymore so we're about to
> get a dresser/armoire to match her bed.
> 

Just adding my "voice of experience" for those net-ters about to make 
youth furniture purchases.   A couple years ago, my son's clothes
fit nicely in a small dresser.  Well, he grew (he's 7 and a size 10 now),
and the same quantity of clothes now takes up a lot more room, because
the clothes are bigger.   So I can place fewer items per drawer.

Also, since he's now wearing each item for a couple of years, it's
become convenient to have summer/winter clothes be more readily
accessible (instead of storing them in the attic for the offseason,
or packing up out-grown clothes each season).  So this requires more
drawer space, too.   And we've also evolved into the "school clothes"
and "play clothes" concept, which only works when the clothes
are physically separated (so when he dresses himself for school,
he knows better than to pull mended-knee sweats from the "play"
drawer, and when he's going out to play on Saturday, he doesn't
take clothes from the "school shirts" or "school pants" drawers.)

I have been searching for a tall "bachelor chest" that is sturdy,
inexpensive, and fitting with his room for several months. 
There's not many large tall dressers available!  Until then, I am 
making do with his sweatshirts and sweatpants displayed in a
small shleving unit made up of four stackable, attractive "milk"
crates.  (But I prefer drawers because it's hard for him to 
keep his clothes stacked neatly).

I do recommend looking for second-hand sturdy furniture with
the old-fashioned dovetail drawers.  Kids are rough on furniture;
abuse doesn't show up so much on pre-abused furnishings.  And
quality of construction was better 30 years ago.  And used is 
cheaper than new, and will look about the same in 7 years.

Another problem with his growth is that the shelves that fit
so nicely on the lower half of his closet are now too tall,
as his shirt tails can no longer hang freely since he's grown so
much.  So allow for movable/removable shelving if you are
adding shelving to a clothes closet.

One storage idea we used in our small family room was to use
a church pew for additional seating.   We have room under the pew
for 2 milk crates or small laundry baskets, plus a bunch of
large cardboard bricks.
-- 
Diane Pedersen
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
att!ihlpe!elonich
From: 00rggraham@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: toxemia
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:23:06 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

i posted a message to this group back in april/may and recieved some very good
advice that i have either taken into consideration, at least listened to and
noted, or ignored. [no hard feelings 8-)]

my girlfriend and i now are expecting a girl on november 25, and we have had no
problem with the pregnancy at all until now...

jennifer called me last wednesday and told me that she had gained ten pounds
since her last medical appointment, and that her blood pressure was up 1 point.

i tend to not worry about this because she always has pretty variable weight
and 1 point in blood pressure could be attributed to stress or any number of
other things...

her doctor told her that those are two signs of toxemia...the third being
protein(?) in her blood(urine?) i don't remember it exactly and haven't had the
time to find out on my own what it is (other than the dictionary definition
which i forget now as well)

she was to have an check-up and tests today to find out about the protein(?)..

can anyone tell me exactly what toxemia is...how dangerous it is to her and our
child?...


also...my roommates have failed to pay our phone bill, and have bounced checks
to the phone company so now i am without a phone...(i love roommates 8-(

jennifer is in her last month and i know that there is no definite way of
knowing when she will go into labor...but with first children...how long does
labor actually tend to last before the delivery...i am a two hour drive away
from her and am banking on getting a ride from a friend here...if not then i am
a four hour drive (that includes the trip my mom will make here to get
me)..ugh...

any information at all will help...

please reply by e-mail i tend to not sift through all of the posts here very
much...

thanks...

ross graham
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: AMY.UHRBACH@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Amy Uhrbach")
Subject: re: After the Stork sizes
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:25:26 GMT

This is interesting.  Someone wrote their child was about 3'+ and 30 lbs and
wears a size 4.  Alex is 38" and 29 1/2 lbs, sort of tall and very thin, and
I'm buying him a 6!! in all thermal underwear.  He wears a 4 slim in
everything else.  The 5s still fit, but barely (the 4s don't).  This is for
both After the Stork and Sara's Prints.  In Hanna's he's size 100, although I
would still go a size up in thermals for longeavity.

BTW, last year I bought a cute outfit from gymboree which never fit right -
always too long in the top, too short in the legs, and the straps fell down.
This week I saw the same overalls on a plump toddler, and saw how it was
supposed to look!  Oh well, go figure.
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Insensitive Remarks - NOT
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:27:51 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: na
Organization: Sylvan Associates

I once had a person ask Kathy if she was real, or a painting.
(She did look like she'd stepped out of one of those beautiful classic
paintings at the time)

We also keep having people telling us that Robin is too cute to be a
boy.

Then again, a group of adults I know were making up awards, and
created the 'Tigger, Too Cute to Support Human Life Award'. Like, this
award was named after me! Three years later, it was awarded to my
husband-to-be. No small wonder we get the comments we do about our
kids. 
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: durriya@doctor.osf.org (Durriya Netterwala)
Subject: High-chair reco wanted
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:39:17


HI Folks,
        I would like recommendations for high chairs. My daughter is about
4 months old and very recently started solids. Are there any features that 
are 'must-haves' for high chairs? Also, is it worthwhile to spend $100+ on 
fancy chairs like the Perego or the one in the Right Start Catalog or do 
folks find that an inexpensive one works fine too. Any brand preferences?

I don't believe there is a FAQ on this, but if I am mistaken can the maintainer
point me to it. 

I'd appreciate it if folks could email me their replies. I will maintain the FAQ
on it if there is enough interest.

Thanks.

--
Durriya N
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Durriya Netterwala                          durriya@osf.org  (617)-621-7357
Open Software Foundation/Research Institute
From: bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Things My Parents Did Right
Date: 12 Nov 1992 10:00:54 -0600
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
NNTP-Posting-Host: informatics.wustl.edu

I think this is a great thread. My parents:

1. Never said I couldn't do something simply because I was a girl (I've
always been stronger in traditionally masuline areas, like mathematics)

2. Never yelled at each other, or argued, or criticized each other in
front of the kids.

3. Never compared one kid with another.

4. Never had favourites.

5. Always encouraged extra-mural activities we were interested in (one of
my brothers insisted on learning to play pan-pipes, in spite of the fact that
we couldn't find a teacher. He got the pipes, fooled around with them for a
few months and then laid them to rest, with no recrimination from my
parents).

6. Never said they didn't like/approve of friends/boyfriends, until after
I had dumped them, if at all.

7. Never criticized my appearance/weight/clothing, nor that of my brothers,
especially when my grandfather would haul my brothers over the coals for
their long hair/earrings/bare feet/lack of tie/whatever.

8. Always paid attention to all our achievments, encouraging us in same.

I wish I could be half as good a parent.

Charlene
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 07:20:01 CST
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle) writes:
> So, (here's my question!) are you somewhat discriminating about sweets
> or if they want them right before dinner, is that fine too?
>
> Kathie
>

The main problem (as I see it) with having sweets before a meal, is that sugar
tends to decrease appetite. So even if it's only a smallish piece (not enough
to fill you up) it still will make it so you're not hungry.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




From: pt@hpsemc.cup.hp.com (Perry Taidi)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:24:09 GMT
Subject: Please Don't Spank!
Organization: HP VAB Programs
Newsgroups: misc.kids



Please don't spank! Don't teach obediance! 

Do you use spanking to teach your child to talk? NO. She/he picks it up
from you. She will not master it at first , but will slowly master it, if you
spend enough time talking and interacting with her. 

Should you spank her/him every time she mis-pronounces a new word or uses it
with the wrong meaning? Of course not. You even laugh at how cute it is, right?

Well  that's the process children use to learn everything. They learn from their
environment. We as parents are not here to "dicipline" our "wild" children. We
are here to nurture them and be an example. It will take time and we need
patience. But we should look at their attempts  at , for example, controlling
their  angry/happy emotions the same way we look at their attempts at learning
to talk. They will fail at first but pick it up slowly. We just need to keep
repeating the example. It will be the wrong example, if we _hurt_ them in ANY
way , emotionally, physically, spiritually. Children DO NOT need any form of
so called "dicipline".  They do need tolerance for their unsuccessful
attempts or they will give up trying and will just focus on avoiding
punishments!

This has worked for me and many others I know. If my daughter does something
that I consider inappropriate, I tell her so. And I tell her the reason and give
her examples and consequences. For example , if she wants to run around in
a restaurant, I tell her look no one runs in a restaurant (we will examine
other people for a while), other diners will be annoyed, and we will have to
leave.  Or is she throws something at me, I just tell her it hurt me, why did
she do it. I have shown enough compassion for her, that she has learned it 
and will come and say I'm sorry ( an expression I have used many times when
she has been hurt from me even when I couldn't understand why!). I am
constatnly amased at how much she picks up everyday. New songs, new expressions
new ways to act, etc.

Children that are very very well behaved, are those  that are given the room
to grow, and are not crushed into a model.

From: janeth@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com (Janet Helmbolt)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 21:46:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Need help with breastfeeding summary & thanks
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.kids

With all due sympathy to the mother who would like to continue nursing but
her 10 month old will not have any part of it anymore, you may have to face
the fact that in your previous life you were not a jersey cow.  Some women
are super nursers and other just are not that way.  It should not reflect 
on you in any way shape or form.  My son gave up nursing at six months and
that was that.  Not much I could do about it.  He knew what he wanted much
better than I did and I had to respect that decision.  Your son knows what
he wants.  It sounds like he is healthy and happy and that is what is 
important.  There are plenty of other ways to be close to your child without
doing the nursing thing as I am sure you will find out.  Take solace that
you got to nurse this long, I know women who could not do it for more than
a month. 

jrh