HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Nav lights for a sailboat (WAS: Nav lights quiz)
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:05:44 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <MBR.92Oct7115646@ponape.bellcore.com>,
mbr@bellcore.com (Mark Rosenstein) writes:
|>    The all-round red-over-green at the masttop is
|>    allowed for all sailing vessels of any length.  You are only likely to
|>    see it on large vessels. 
|> I always wondered why you don't see more of these. Is it complexity? Weight
|> aloft? Power consumption? Or is my model that the higher things are up,
|> the easier they are to see wrong?
Because on a fore-and-aft rigged vessel, if you mount the lights on the
mast, the lower one is almost certain to be obscured by the sail from
some aspects.  Not many yachts have enough spare mast height above the
peaks of the main and all the staysails to carry these lights. It's
easier to find a usable position for the lights on a square-rigger or
some other vessel with a topmast.

Furthermore, a sailing vessel can be recognised without these lights
from all the aspects where another vessel needs distinguish "powered"
from "sailing".  (To illustrate what I mean: you can't tell a sailing
vessel from a powered vessel from astern, but you don't need to.  If
there's a risk of collision, then you are the overtaking vessel, and you
have to keep clear whether the other one is powered or sailing.)

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: GPS
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:50:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats
Distribution: na
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <eBs0RB2w165w@gtm-inc.com>, terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
wrote:
> 
> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
> 
> > keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >Terry,
> > 
> > >Would you recommend GPS over Loran.
> > 
> > >I'm new to this boating thing and have used
> > >neither GPS nor Loran, but will be acquiring
> > >one of these devices soon.  GPS is usually
> > >noted as superior to Loran.  And it sounds as if
> > >your happy.  Have you used Loran before??  Can
> > >you make a comparison??  Is GPS worth the extra
> > >money??
> > 
> > >I don't plan to sail around the world, but sailing up
> > >to Block Island, Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod, etc
> > >would be nice.
> > 
> > You didn't ask me but you did ask publicly so I'll just
> > jump in.  IMO, for what you want LORAN will work to 100%
> > satisfaction at a fraction of the price.  They are both excellent
> > systems, with GPS having a few advantages.  On the other hand GPS
> > still costs at least three times as much.  Unless you are going
> > offshore beyond LORAN range or need the precision of GPS it's up
> > to you whether it's worth the extra bucks.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > gerard
> 
> I have to disagree with you Gerard, LORAN will not work to 100% 
> satisfaction, if you sail, or power through any magnetic fields, it 
> will not give you accuracy, you do not encounter this with the GPS
> so what is more important a Loran that works part of the time, but
> costs a lot less, and could endager your life because magnetic fields
> interfer with its signal, or a GPS that is accurate to one foot, but cost
> three times as much. Don't get me wrong I have the Raython Loran and I
> used it a lot and was happy. The GPS is far more advanced has more features
> and probably will come down in cost as more and more people purchase it.
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This response is a little puzzling...we all are constantly going through
the Earth's magnetic field (otherwise our compasses wouldn't work).  Also,
GPS accuracy is about 100 meters, not one foot.  Loran is perfectly
satisfactory for most users;and its absence certainly wont *endanger your
life* - I at least sailed happily for 20-odd years without it, and was
never aware that my life was in danger.
-Pete
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Backing up
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:24:37 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@sandr.com (Robert Parkinson)
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

In article <1992Oct14.135216.29785@phri.nyu.edu> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
>> Turning in one direction worked fine, turning the other direction did not.
>> In fact, the boat kept turning in the original direction despite havning
>> the tiller pushed all the way to the other side.
>> [...]
>> One of the guys in the marina said that was normal, that sailboats seem
>> to back in one direction better than the other.

Pay no attention to all the replies concerning 'prop torque', etc. 
Voodoo physics. Here's what really causes this:

What you experienced is the 'spiral force' that causes water 
to form a clockwise spiral when it goes down the drain. This
force causes boats to tend to describe a clockwise turn when
backing under power. Now, of course, when you take your boat into the 
southern hemisphere, she'll tend to turn anticlockwise. This is why
most ocean going vessels have two props; so they can counteract
the spiral force easily in either hemisphere by putting a few
more turns on the appropriate prop.

:-) :-) :-)

dr_science@sandr.com
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: "OMC Sea Drives"
Date: 13 Oct 92 08:37:06 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208


   Another power-related question:  I keep running into boats powered by
   "OMC sea drives".  I've noticed that these boats are usually priced
   somewhat lower than identical ones with i/o's or "regular" outboards.
   Had one dealer tell me that people distrust them.  Would any of you
   know something about them, what problems may exist, etc ?  To me, they
   appear to be integrated bracket/outboard combinations with some additional
   gear that, I would assume, is a mechanism for turning/tilting the 
   outboards themselves ?  Any info would be appreciated.


   thanks,

   Greg Pavlov,
   pavlov@fstrf.org
From: tzinn@cisco.com (Tom Zinn)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Pirates
Date: 17 Oct 1992 01:20:09 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: tzinn@cisco.com (Tom Zinn)
NNTP-Posting-Host: darthgator-dynamic.cisco.com



>Latitude 38 (local SF sailing mag) has had an article re: alleged pirates
>in Mexico. I cant remember if it was on the Caribbean side or not.

>The cruisers blew the two "pirates" away. It seems the cruisers have 
>been cleared by the Mexican authorities, but, have been getting a lot of 
>flak from other cruisers.

flak from other cruisers for defending yourself???...sorry, but if "pirates"
boarded my boat by force or threat with intent to rob or commit
bodily harm, I wouldn't hesitate in the least to protect myself and
family with a couple of shotgun blasts in the "pirates" direction.

Better them than me.

Just my .02 worth, 

T o m
From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sailing into a slip
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:32:20 GMT

Yup, you can scandalise a main by topping up the boom. I do this quite
regularly on my Contessa 26 (which I tend to sail single-handed - can't get
the staff you know, sigh...). More significantly, I have often done this on
the mizzen of a large (72') ketch in order to get the drive off quickly at the
last moment...

Roger Hare.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist)
Subject: Re: "OMC Sea Drives"
Reply-To: swist@took.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:14:06 GMT


There was some info about this in some magazine I read recently.
(Powerboat Reports maybe?)

OMC has in fact only recently completely discontinued the Sea Drive, so
any representative models you see on used boats might in fact be quite new.

It was that writer's opinion that the SeaDrive was more of a marketing gaffe
than a failure for any other good reason.  OMC had a chance to get in on the
ground floor of the bracket-mount market but lost it to aftermarket bracket
makers like Gil due to ugly packaging and a lack of promotion/concerted effort
to educate people about the advantages of this kind of mount.
From: boots@sptekwv2.wv.tek.com (Darrell Irvin;685-2277;60-850;;sptekwv2)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Help in choosing a VHF radio
Keywords: Radio VHF
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:11:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: shaman.1961
Reply-To: boots@orca.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.,  Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Oct12.105715.15337@hemlock.cray.com>, ss@tamarack16.cray.com (Sandra Swanson) writes:
|> 
|> Could some of you netters that have had experience with VHF radios
|> please share your expertise?  What brands are best?  Most reliable?
|> Take punishment (both water [fresh] & pounding) and still work?

I have close to ten years on an ICOM M80 with **ZERO** problems.
The thing is built like a tank and always works.  I don't leave it on the
boat, but take it home when I leave.  When not in the boat it lives in an
unheated garage. ICOM is spendy, but I believe worth the money.
Their main business seems to be communications gear, ham radio,
marine VHF, SSB etc.


|> 
|> Also, are the speakers in most radios adequate or should we think about
|> a separage speaker closer to the helm?  I know with our hand-held we
|> have trouble hearing it over the engine noise.

Have had no problem hearing the ICOM.  My advice would be to try it without
the external speaker.  It is easy to add later.

-- 
	   =========================================================
	   =							   =
	   =   Darrell Boots Irvin  boots@sptekwv2.WV.TEK.COM	   =
	   =   VSG Engineering	    boots@orca.WV.TEK.COM  	   =
	   =   Network Displays					   =
	   =   DS 60-850		 (503) 685-2277		   =
	   =   Tektronix Inc.					   =
	   =							   =
	   =========================================================
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: What makes a boat a better pointer ??
Date: 8 Oct 92 07:12:08 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <9210071606.AA28435@ssd.comm.mot.com> krueger@COMM.MOT.COM (Kevin Krueger) writes:

>Over the weekend, I sailed a 31 ft. Hunter on Lake Michigan.  What I noticed
>over two days of sailing is that the boat had better speed on close reaches
>than on any other point of sail.  I know from windsurfing and basic sail
>theory that beam or beam/broad reach should be the fastest point of sail.
>So I am wondering if there are certain designs which warrant a better speed
>when close reaching OR had we trimmed the sails incorrectly ?  Thanks for
>any responses.

>Kevin
>krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com

If the hull is capable of the speed and can carry the sail then
close reach must be the fastest point of sailing according to the
theory. On a close reach your boatspeed contributes to the apparent
wind and you get more power than otherwise.

The proof of this is easily seen on fast catamarans, say Tornado and
ice yachts. In practice for many boats the broad reach or even the
run will carry the boat faster, because the heeling moment of the rig
is smaller and one can carry more sail than on a close reach or beat.
My fastest log readings come on dead run, because I have been able
to carry a once reefed main in 48 nots of wind, surfing for really
long periods more than 15 knots. I would not evean dream about 
carrying as much sail in the same conditions on a close reach and
I am positive that what ever sails I would carry my speed would
be less than 6 nots. Here also the waves work against me while on
the run I get some help.

Hope you ger the general idea.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: GPS, Loran, autopilots and cables
Keywords: Happy
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:55:52 GMT

advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel) writes:

... regarding electrical/magnetic fields

>If you have an electronic autopilot, the fluxgate compass in *that* will be
>affected. I had a more than 30 degree course change when I sailed over
>an undersea power cable. I'm guessing it was DC (reduces transmission losses),
>and it was pretty shallow there so I was probably only a matter of 2 feet from
>the cable. The chart just said 'cable area'.

Excellent point.  Probably hand steering over a cable you be over it so 
quick that you might never notice the compass wobble.  A fluxgate
hooked to an autopilot could do somthing like an unplanned jibe under
these circumstances.  *That* could be dangerous.  I'd never thought
about this.  Thanks for bringing it up.

>Re. Loran, mine dies around sunset. It's a pretty old set, but I thought that
>there was some effect with the ionosphere stabilizing that affected the Loran
>transmissions. Anyone else see this ?

I've noticed differences in reception strength but never complete failure.
If I were you I'd either have the receiver looked at or pony up the dollar
three eighty it costs for a new one.  Since Loran uses low frequency radio
waves (100KHz) atmospheric conditions can cause problems.  The most trouble
I've ever had with mine was in Machias Bay this summer.  The Navy has
a VLF antenna farm there for communicatiing with subamrines.  For me it
meant total Loarn shutdown.

cheers,
gerard
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Butane on Powerboats?
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:59:15 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, zielke@FOZZIE.NRL.NAVY.MIL (David Zielke) writes:
>On the question of butane vs propane.  Why is it that CNG has not caught on
>with boaters?  My sailboat came with a CNG system and while it is
>considerably more expensive (1 CNG bottle exchange is about $20 and is equiv
>to about 4lbs of propane or about $2) it is lighter than air and burns just
>as cleanly...

I think you anwered your own question, that and perceived availability.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: mpeter@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (Margot Peter)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Seriously seeking Sole'
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:27:23 GMT
Reply-To: mpeter@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu

I'm posting for a friend who is very interested in info on a Sole' 35.5. It's
an aluminum sloop which he believes is french built. Does anyone have the
address of the company, or does anyone out there own one or ever sailed one ??
Steve saw this boat in the South Pacific. Since Steve didn't speak French and
the owner didn't speak English, he couldn't get many details. You can either
post or email me and I'll pass it along. Any comments will be most appreciated.


Margot                 "I had to sink my yacht to make the guests go home."
                                      F. Scott Fitzgerald
                                                   
                                                   
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mikeg@zehntel (Mike Goldstein)
Subject: Need help with Mercruiser stern drive.
Reply-To: mikeg@zehntel (Mike Goldstein)
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:05:28 GMT

My friend ahs a 26 foot Formula express cruiser that has twin
mercruisers. We have 2 problems:
1) the starboard engine sometimes stalls and swallows water - we think through
the exhaust (the stern is quite heavy in this boat, the drives are completely
submerged at reast and theus the motors are quite low.) When this happens
we have to pull the spark plugs to spin the water out and then the engine
runs fine. This never happens to the port motor.

2) Both motors ALWAYS stall when shifting out of gear. they never stall going
into gear. Every time we shift to neutral we have to restart!  Apparantly
there is some mechanism that shorts the ignition when shifting on these
and my friend thinks these may need adjustment - what is the procedure to
do this??

thanks-
mike goldstein

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: billa@fc.hp.com (Bill Arnold)
Subject: Re: Bareboating
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:40:28 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

T. Scott Thompson (thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu) wrote:
: zba@altair.selu.edu writes:
: 
Has anyone ever bare-boated from another location
: >such as Bahamas or Belize?
: 
: >Any suggestions welcome!
: 
The comments about Bimini were interesting and worth considering.

You might want to bareboat out of March Harbor on the island of
Abaco.  Lots of sheltered, very shallow water.  As well, you can
cross the islands and snorkel in the deep Atlantic. 

Overall, I had a very pleasant time there.  Lots of interesting
things to do ashore as well.

Bill Arnold    billa@fc.hp.com
From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Knots
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:06:28 GMT

Er, yeah - I'm in the middle of preparing an ascii knot file which will
attempt to show how the thing is tied - I must say, creating the file is a
damn sight harder than tying the bloody knot!

Bear with me for a couple more days (please...).

Roger.

PS I don't claim any originality over this one -I 'discovered it by accident
one nigh and then (a couple of years later) stumbled across *two* descriptions
of it in Ashley...
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Heaven fits sky so ride them!)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: 5 sailing questions
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:13:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: jhuvms.15OCT199215132758
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct15.171532.17391@netcom.com>, truher@netcom.com (Joel Burke Truher) writes...
>In article <BOWERS.92Oct14114008@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>>
>>Yes, wings assist on every point of sail, except dead downwind.  The
>>shape assists in the reduction of drag, and the shape also assists in
>>getting the lead down lower (making the boat less tender).  
> 
>So is the wing just an endplate?  Does it produce any lift of its
>own or does it just block the flow around the bottom of the keel?
> 
>Joel

It produces some lift when you heel, but yeah, I'd say for the most part
it's an endplate. The above note should say "for the same draft, they assist",
Frankly I'd rather have the weight down even lower in a fin of the same weight
with greater draft.




Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>Here comes a jet ski.
>weuh weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh weuh
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Help in choosing a VHF radio
Keywords: Radio VHF
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:29:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.105715.15337@hemlock.cray.com> ss@tamarack16.cray.com (Sandra Swanson) writes:
>
>[radio upgrade to 25 W VHF]

Make sure your new radio also has a low-power setting, and be sure to use
it. It might even be nice if the low-power setting were the default.

>[desirable features? scanning? mic speakers? mic channel changing?]

Scanning *might* be nice now that we should reasonably expect to monitor 
both 9 and 16, as well as 13 for ship-to-ship stuff. 

My radio is down below, with a long enough mic wire to get the mic on
deck. Alas, with the engine running, I can't hear the up on deck. A mic
speaker might be pretty nice. Ditto mic channel changing, but only if
you're likely to be single-handing a lot... Make sure it's not easy to
activate  by accident. 

Watch out for the "auto-16" feature. A friend of mine has a radio that
switches back to 16 whenever he hangs up the mic. This is fine, except
that he may want to monitor 9 instead...

-John
From: venable@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu (Wallace Venable)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Nav lights for a sailboat (WAS: Nav lights quiz)
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:34:21 GMT
Organization: WVU College of Engineering

>|> .... and a strange arrangement that I have 
>|> never seen, for sailboats uner 20m, consisting of red, green and sternlights 
>|> together with a masthead all-round red over all-round green.

	I recall the following (source unrecalled):  This light combination 
was PATENTED about 50 years ago by someone with influence.  They managed to 
get it into the rules, but it has never been "popular" because you were 
supposed to buy a license from the inventor in order to use it.  I don't 
know why it is still in the rules.  I think the inventor had a name like 
Lindberg, (but not the "Lone Eagle" himself.)

>Incidentally, I have seen several books which purport to explain
>ColRegs, or help you to learn them, which use the phrase "right of way
>vessel".  ColRegs never mention right of way, as far as I can see.  The
>nearest they get is the phrase "stand on vessel" (they also use "give
>way vessel").  "Right of way" seems to be a misleading phrase in this
>context.  I am wondering how the phrase got into use.  Was it used in
>older ColRegs? 

	Yes.  And yes, it was eliminated in the '72 ColRegs because it is 
somewhat misleading.  The old regs called the "give way" vessel the 
"burdened" vessel, which was also misleading since both vessels actually 
have defined responsibilities.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Bareboating
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:09:21 GMT

zba@altair.selu.edu writes:

>In June of this year I rented a 45' catalina out of the British V.I.
>The trip was a lot of fun but next time I would like to get a boat
>from another location.  Has anyone ever bare-boated from another location
>such as Bahamas or Belize?

>Any suggestions welcome!

I have bareboated out of South Florida and sailed _to_ the Bahamas.
The western end of the Bahamas are quite different from (what I have
only heard about) the V.I.'s.  Expect relatively long open water
passages.  Anchorages are few, far between, and often exposed to wind
/ currents.  The advantages are (a) you get to cross the Gulf Stream
if you dare, (b) much lower airfare from U.S. origination points.
Bimini is so close to Miami that it ought to be on many maps of
Florida, but usually isn't.

The recent discussions about sailing into a slip brought back memories
of having to sail into a _very_ crowded Bimini harbor with almost zero
apparent wind due to a strong current running with the wind (into the
harbor) and a trashed water pump.  It pays to practice!

If I had my druthers I would avoid Bimini and Grand Bahama Island.  Go
further East if you can.  If you go to Bimini, reserve a slip.  You
will sleep much better.  (Also try to find out when the Marlin
tournaments are in town and avoid bringing a sailboat in then.  It
gets dangerously crowded.)

--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
Newsgroups: rec.boats