From: awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Circumcision (was Re: God Is Unfair)
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:54:32 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

In article <1992Nov20.202535.13022@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.151948.215@ncsu.edu>, awmurray@eos.ncsu.edu (ALAN WAYNE MURRAY) writes:
>[Jews circumcize boys; Americans pierce the ears of girls and some boys]
>|> You drastically overstate the difference between the two.
>|> 
>|> The small holes created by ear piercing will heal themselves if you
>|> don't WORK to keep them open (for example by keeping the piercing
>|> studs in for 6 months).  Even after the 6 months, if you don't put
>|> ear rings in them occasionaly, they will close up and heal.  Has your 
>|> foreskin grown back yet?
>
>No, but it has healed.  It heals in about a week, and then
>it never gives pain again.  Pierced ears have to constantly
>get poked or else the holes start to close, in which case
>it's *really* painful to try to reopen them again.
>

Sorry, but "heal" and "doesn't hurt anymore" are two *totally* different
animals.  If your penis were *amputated*, it would hurt for a while, but
as you say, it would "never give pain again".

>|>  
>|> Ear piercing is optional and usually not done on babies (certainly
>|> not the boys).  Couple this with the fact that the pain is superfluous
>|> (there are a lot more nerve endings in the penis than in the earlobe!)
>|> and there is NO blood if done by professionals.  Now, how can you call
>|> circumcision less barbaric than simple ear piercing???   BAH!
>|> 
>|> You yourself seem to admit that there is no medical benefit.  You're only
>|> acting like a loyal robot for God and His word.  Tell me, did you have
>|> a burnt offering as well or was that part skipped?  Did your wife stay
>|> "unclean" and "touch nothing holy" for the prescribed period of time
>|> (30+days)?
>|>  
>
>I admit I don't do it *because* of any medical benefit.   In the
>past, some doctors claimed there was a medical benefit, and many
>non-Jews began to circumcize their children.  Then the doctors
>changed their minds again and said there was no medical benefit.
>Recently, someone posted that the doctors may be changing their
>minds yet again.  There's no significant medical harm, anyway.
>That's why I objected to the characterization as "barbaric".
>
>You are being more critical of irrational practices done
>in the name of religion than you are of similar irrational practices
>done in the name of non-religion.
>
>You don't need to bring God into the picture at all.
>It's a Jewish custom to circumcise our children,
>even though there may be no medical reason.
>It's an American custom to pierce the ears of children
>(you call it "optional", but the peer pressure to
>do it on girls is as great or greater than the pressure
>to follow religious customs).  

Greater??!?  You've obviouly never been a known atheist
going through American public schools.  It's not just "peer pressure"
that you face, it feels more like public exile/ridicule.  Whether or not you 
have ear rings doesn't begin to compare to the type of treatment inflicted
on atheists (heathens) *everyday*!  I speak from experience.


>
>Why do Jews get so much more flak for their
>"barbaric" custom than Americans get for theirs?
>
>Why do you poke fun at our customs --- Americans
>have plenty of equally irrational customs like trick-or-treat,
>Thanksgiving turkey, football half-time celebrations, New Year's Eve,
>and going to bars, compared to which a pidyon ha-ben
>seems relatively sane.  Some of these customs are
>observed even more "religiously" than most Jews
>observe theirs.

Yet, none involve knives or babies.

>
>
>-- 
>Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
>IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: alt.atheism