Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Banjica the death camp
From: stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:20:27 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


My claim that Banjica is not a death camp was based upon the
expirience of someone who lived whole his life in Belgrade, 
and whose parents lived during whole period of WWII in
Belgrade, and who had a lot of chances to speak to the 
people who passed ( were processed ) in Banjica.  But
Mr. Loncaric has found his " fountain of knowledge" -
Enciklopedija Jugoslavije- ( The Encyclopedia of Yugoslavia
)- EJ- , and is pressing two passages as a proof that 69400 have 
been killed in Banjica,  accepting what is written there 
as an absolute truth.

First passage is:
>>>>>>> Mr Josip Loncaric writes:
The exact number of persons who passed through Banjica camp  is
udetermined, because of sloppy bookkeeping, but it is known that 
23,637 persons were signed in, and that in Jajinci 68,000 corpses 
were burned and 1,400 left unburned; majority of those shot in
Jajinci was brought through Banjica camp. 
<<<<<<<


Well, here is what I have written earlier:

>>>>>>> Milan N. Stojanovic:
The other use of Banjica was that it was a camp where from people
were forwarded to the other camps, Dahau, Mathauzen, "Sajmiste" (a
death camp ), Smederevo ( Youth Education Centar ) ....
<<<<<<<

Had Mr. Loncaric checked the cross-references in EJ, he would
have found under Belgrade, Under Occupation:

" Executions by firing squad were done by Germans in Jajinci and 
Central and Jewish cemetaries [ My comment is that cemetaries were
activated at the end of 1943 ].  From Banjica 3849 and from "Sajmiste"
around 40,000 people were killed." 

So Your statement does not hold water:
>>>>>>Mr. Loncaric wrote;
Jajinci only happen to have a different name, but this location
was simply a killing ground associated with the Banjica camp.
<<<<<<

I think that putting those three passages together should be quite easy.
I do not think that there is any difference for the people killed,
whether they once passed through Banjica or not, but for the sake
of historical record it should be established that formally they were
taken from Sajmiste, because Banjica was a camp primarily for those 
who had something to do with Special Police or resistance.
As to why the "historian" who wrote the Mr. Loncaric's passage missed
this I would explain later.  Also, knowing a lot about Special Police,
claim about " sloppy bookkeeping " is at least stupid. 

Second passage of the utmost importance for Mr. Loncaric is:

>>>>>>>Mr. Josip Loncaric writes:
....The camp was in fact a waystation for being taken to execution 
(first category, mostly in Jajinci ), being sent to forced labor in 
 other camps ( second category ) and being held in camp for some time 
(third category ).  Categorization was done by organs of the IV anti-
Communist section, Ilija Paranos, Bosko Becarevic and Radan Grujicic...
[ my comment: section of the Special Police].....
<<<<<<<<

It would agree with most of this, were it not for the previous passage
quoted by Mr. Loncaric, so someone might conclude that all 70,000 people
killed in Jajinci passed through Special Police.

Well, I had a big problem here.  Reading through " fountain of
knowledge" - EJ - I have found the following propaganda:

" There was a military target practice ground in Jajinci, that was
used by occupiers for mass execution of those belonging to
Peoples Liberation Movement ( PLM ) and their sympathisers..."

So solution is a simple one.  
This passage plus those two Mr. Loncaric is using, are written with only
one purpose: to spread false history.  Only about 5% of those killed
in Jajince had anything to do with communists, or any other resistance, 
thus having nothing to do with Special Police or Banjica.  Those 
killed were mostly hostages taken by Germans, from those regions where 
Germans would judge that there is a lot of resistance.
"Sloppy bookkeeping" is brought up to cover inconsistencies in numbers, 
while it is well known that anti-Communist section of police before 
and during the WWII was one of the best and most efficient police 
groups in the Europe.  Also following passages, conveniently skipped 
by Mr. Loncaric, from Banjicki logor, EJ, witness what kind of source
is EJ:

"...they ( prisoners ) were inspired by many examples of the heroic
behaviour of the communists and other patriotic prisoners...
beleif in victory and pride because of the heroic battle of our revolution
..." 

Those comming from eastern Europe and reading this know what does it mean.

Branko Petranovic, a communist historian, but much more serious, in his 
book "History of Yugoslavia", Vol. II, claims that from the 23,697 
prisoners, 2894 were signed as executed.  He claims that many more 
were actually killed, probably basing this on the survival of those 
people through whole WWII.  He misses to say that many of those had
nothing to do with communist resistance, some ( some emmigration sources
claim most ) of the prisoners were royalists.  For example, Maj. Jezdimir
Dangic waited for execution there, before being transfered to one of the
Polish camps, thus temporarily avoiding the worst.  Also his friend from
"Mlada Bosna" Vasa Cubrilovic was kept on Banjica nad released. 

So, my conclusion, EJ authors are trying to push for an official version
of history, the one so conveniently learnt through elementary school, about
mass resistance to Germans and mass awareness of the people that communist
revolution is a way to do it.  The other point is to blame the Special 
Police for things they did not do, thus trying to destroy a very strong 
cult of gen. Nedic. 

Also, I would note that these statements are simply false:

>>>>>>Mr. Josip Loncaric wrote:
At the end of the war 68,000 burned and 1,400 unburned corpses were 
discovered at Jajinci alone....

and:

.... and yet most of the 69,400 victims whose remains were found in
Jajinci....
<<<<<<<<

( Significant figures, ever heard of them?) 

No burned corpses were ever found in Jajinci.  This is only an estimated 
from statements of  those people who were ordered to burn those corpses 
and than managed to escape ( Jajinci, EJ ).  
An interesting note is that it is a common knowledge in Belgrade that 
during so called revolutionary terror after communists came to power,
app. 10,000 people were executed on Jajinci.  

And finally let me answer this:
>>>>> Mr. Josip Loncaric wrote:
You are either ignorant, insensitive or both.....
<<<<<

Ignorant?  So be it.  If the ignorance is refusing to beleive the 
communist propaganda and knowing how to think about things I read in
sources you take as an ultimate sources of truth, I am ignorant. 
Insensitive?  For saying:

>>>>>>Milan N. Stojanovic:
Hunting dow communists, with our present day knowledge, was nothing bad.
<<<<<<

Yes, I am insensitive toward people who decided to endanger the whole 
nation for their political agenda.  100 Serbs for one German, was it 
worthy?  No.  And I do not buy communist mind building elementary 
school stories you and EJ are trying to sell here.  

This is my last.  Starting net week I'll go back to Tudjman and his book.

Regards,

Milan

P.S. "Sajmiste" was from May 1944 under Croatian jurisdiction.
Did you know this?  I guess not.  So guess who is responsible for 
closing down and processing of the remaining prisoners? 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8233 soc.culture.greek:7984