HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bart Man )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Show Purchase
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:18:36 GMT


Howdy!,

What is the procedure for purchasing a gun at a show?  I know the
standard wait is still in effect (in CA), but do I pay in whole at 
the show, or do I put $$$ down and pay the rest upon receiving the
gun.  I will probably be buying from an out of town dealer.

Thanks.

Please send e-mail to:  klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.ed

				GLOCK, there is NO substitute.

===============================================================================
Brent Kronenberg                          e-mail:  bkronenb@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
						   klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

University of California, San Diego       Depts. of:  Cognitive Science &
						      Physiological Psychology
From: scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Decoding shotgun jargon
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.Bw48HB.LE1
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Jonathan Wise (jwise@csa2.lbl.gov) wrote:
: I was recently reading ads for shotguns (mostly with prices that
: are, unfortunately, far in excess of my monthly salary) and found
: several abbreviations that I did not understand.
: 
: Can anyone tell me what the following mean?
: 
: LT, RK, SST, AE, ST, DT

LT = Long Tang.  The rearward extension of the trigger gaurd which extends
     down the pistol grip.  Some are longer than others, some guns do not
     have them.

RK - Round Knob.  The shape of the bottom of the pistol grip.  One modern
     example is the Browning Lightning series.

SST - Single Selectable Trigger.  One trigger is used to fire both barrels.
      The order in which the barrels are fired is selectable.

AE - Automatic Ejectors.  Fired shells are ejected, unfired shells are
     extracted.

ST - Single Trigger.  One trigger is used to fire both barrels, firing
     order may or may not be selectable.

DT - Double Trigger.  One trigger for each barrel.

: Thanks in advance.
: 
: Jonathan Wise

The LT and RK designations are peculiar to Browning guns mostly.

-Scot
From: swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 12 guage recoil: how to limit?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: nuscc.1992Oct9.034451.331
Organization: National University of Singapore

When I eventually return home to Oz, i'll need to get some kind of
shotgun to deal with the snakes we regularly get on our farm. A .410
is ideal especially for the wife, but i'm loath to get a gun that is
limited to this role. I'd rather get a 12 gauge pump that can be put to other
purposes as well.

How can I limit the recoil of a 12 guage to make it acceptable to my
wife (small--115 lbs)? Will removing a large percentage of shot reduce
the propelled mass and hence the recoil? I'd like a simple solution
without involving reloading etc.

thanks for any help
perry morrison
From: bluemoon!miller@gator.rn.com (John Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: bluemoon.k6gcsB2w165w
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

# 	After about the fifth court appearance, all charges were dismissed.
# 	This was a miserable experience that left me feeling like shit for
# 	a LONG time thereafter.
# 
Have you filed yor law suit yet?  You really should, because a***s liek 
that need to be dealt with as harshly as possible.  It happened to me 
once, (but not quite so clear cut)

I often thinkk that (certain) police officers full well understand the 
impact of arrestng someone, even though the charges may be dropped later, 
runs to the thousands of dollars (in legal fees).  I think some of them do 
it just to prove that they have the "power" and you don't.  (Of course I 
HAVE run into some truly great officers.  It just seems that I always get 
the jerk when I can least afford to).

John Miller

/**************
** John Miller
** miller@bluemoon.use.com
** 76467.1465@compuserve.com
**************/
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Matt Helms
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:25 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:


#  There has been some discussion of the realistic depiction of
#firearms in the Matt Helms novels.  Another aspect of these
#novels which I've noticed is the emphasis placed on proper
#entry through a doorway.  This has come to my mind now that 
#I'm reading an interesting book:

#The Tactical Edge
#Surviving High-Risk Patrol
#Charles Remsberg

#which is by the author of "STREET SURVIVAL: Tactics for
#Armed Encounters" (which I read and reviewed some time ago) and
#which I'll review when I'm finished.  (I think that they are
#both police textbooks.)

Could you post price/availability of these books? They sound quite interesting.

-- 
Jim Foster                [   Everything I say is at the specific behest of   ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [   Kansas State University and represents their    ]
Kansas State University   [   official position on the subject.               ]
From: gaucher%beryllium.cchem.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Non-resident Pistol Permit (MA)
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

I noticed that there have been some requests for information
concerning non-resident pistol permits. I am a resident of
California and am in the process of getting such a permit
for Massachusetts. Here is the procedure (or at least as much
as I know at this point):

Call 617-727-3200 and ask for the Firearms Records Bureau.
Tell them what you want and they will mail you a form which
must be filled out by your local PD. The form includes
instructions which require you to be completely fingerprinted.
You must also include with the form two passport-style
photographs. A xerox copy of your in-state pistol permit is
also required. For those of us in states which do not issue
permits (such as Kalifornia where you must instead amuse
yourself for 15 days while submitting to an administrative
proctological exam), it gets a little uglier. You must
provide two letters (one from the Criminal Records Bureau
of your local PD, the other from the State Police) stating
that you don't have a criminal record. I was assured that
there were standard forms for this procedure. Yeah, we'll see
about that...

I was asked explicitly if this was a permit for concealed
carry or for target (pronounced "tahgit", BTW), to which I
said the latter. I'm sure the procedure is much more involved
for a CCW.

Lee Gaucher
From: Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  DCM finally responds!
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: sproul.D2150096.qihnew
Organization: Sproul Consulting



In article <9210151835.AA12071@gyre.cs.UMD.EDU>, wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
# #From: "C. H. Lochmuller" <clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu>
# #... Then again I could sell the Blue Sky the next day or
# #buy 5 more - DCM is never sell without authorization from DCM and one in a
# #lifetime. ...
# 
# I wonder about this business about not selling without "authorization"
# from the DCM. Does *anybody* ever request such "authorization" from the
# DCM? After all, there were thousands and thousands of firearms disposed
# of via the DCM route and just about all of them so sold pre-WWII are now
# out of the hands of their now-deceased original recipients, and in the
# collector market or sporterized, and I very much doubt that any appreciable
# fraction of those were ever given any such "authorization". I got a DCM
# M1 Carbine back in the '50s or early '60s, when that last batch came thru
# the NRA, and, while there might be some such restrictive statement on
# the original paperwork (which I don't know if I could find now), there
# is nothing that keeps me from trundling it down to the gun show or shop
# and selling it right now... Does the DCM actually *care* about this? Do
# they have the resources to process such requests for "authorization"?
# 
# Or are the Garands sold via the high-power-rifle-competition route
# treated differently than the other DCM-sold firearms of past years? 
# If they have a different level of restrictions on disposal than other
# DCM guns, just how is this enforced or is it titular with no pretense
# at enforcement? I can see the "one in a lifetime" being easily enforced
# via an SSN match, but can't see how any other restrictions could be...
# 
# If you really are not legally allowed to sell it, are you supposed to
# send it back to the DCM when you no longer want it? (Or is your estate
# supposed to send it back after you die?) Or what?
# 
# Regards, Will
# wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
# 

They dont want you buying the rifle with the intent of selling it
to someone else.  Basically, the common practice is after several
years, you can sell it as you please.  Their hope is that you will
continue shooting in competition.  For most series compeititors,
they will want a better or different rifle after a few years and many
would want/need to trade in their M1 for a better rifle.

-------------------------------------
Mark Sproul - KB2ICI
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun Scopes
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:52:56 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <9210060909.aa04565@sco1.qdeck.com> burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
#In article <9210011748.AA10696@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
##I will be acquiring a .44 Magnum revolver in the near future that
##I intend to use for deer hunting.
##
##What scope would you recommend?  The last scope I had was on a
##.44 Magnum Contender, but it self-destructed after a few hot loads.
##Are today's scopes built to take more punishment?
##
#
#Leupold or Burris.
#
#Bill	burge@qdeck.com

Additionally, the Simmons Gold Medal 2.5-7x variable. J.D. Jones and his
handcannon cronies have yet to blow one up. Even on the .45-70 and .475 JDJ
in Contenders. There was a picture in the last issue of their news letter of
a fellow waering a helmet for protection while working up loads from the bench.

gmk
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which 9mm to buy
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:00:07 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1992Oct06.110730.2587@convex.com> langston@convex.COM (Kevin Langston) writes:
#
#    Well, there's always the P-220 in 9mm. Dealers are buying them for
#    about $350-375. This is a superb gun, the only perceived shortcoming

	I heard the P-220 in .45 is rather good, any opinions on this?
									jd
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:01:35 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <13400046@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
#...  Certainly all the experts I've read agree
#that five lbs is an absolute minimum, and that for anybody who does not
#undergo constant recurrent training, it is too little.

Generally when an "expert" mentions a "5-pound trigger pull", he
has in mind the RELEASE FORCE as in a cocked M1911A1, where 5 pounds
would indeed be hard to control well under high stress, but all that
should mean is a slight decrease in accuracy of shot placement.
Ideally, in SA mode the trigger TRAVEL before release would be
practically zero distance.  The Glock trigger pull is CONSIDERABLY
different in feel and operation, requiring unlocking pressure of the
finger, then a relatively light force applied over a distance of more
than a quarter of an inch (not "short" by my standards) to cock the
striker, and finally an increased pressure over a small distance
(several mils) to release the striker.

It's hard to see how either the M1911A1 or the Glock trigger pulls
(assume set to around the same release force, e.g. 5 pounds) could
reasonably be considered to contribute to accidental discharges,
and in that comparison the Glock clearly has an edge since it is
possible that dropping or otherwise impacting the M1911A1 could
cause the hammer to release while that should be nearly impossible
to happen with the Glock.  (Naturally, when employed in a crisis
situation the safety would be OFF on the M1911A1.)

Any accidental discharge due to excessive finger pressure on the
trigger should be blamed appropriately, on the violation of a
cardinal rule of firearm safety, not on the design of the trigger
pull.  Anyone who puts his finger on the trigger of a firearm but
is not in the process of intentionally pulling the trigger should
have his gun taken away from him until he learns how to handle it
safely; he's a menace to society.
From: rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Carry/Ownership laws
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:43:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsk.1992Oct8.152613.19103
Organization: AT&T

My wife will be on a business assignment in Pennsylvania for the
next 6 months, if not longer. This necessitates her having an
apartment, since it is a 3 hour one-way commute. I want to get her
a small handgun, probably a .380, *maybe* a compact 9mm. I have all
the permits/ID cards in my name, here in beautiful New Jersey.
What I'm thinking of is getting the gun and giving it to her
to take with her. So as I see it, the three areas of legality are
1) I own the gun, and 2) she will have it in PA, a state other than
NJ, where it was purchased, and 3) she doesn't have an ID card but
will be in possession of the gun.

What are the laws governing ownership/possession in PA? Should I start
paperwork here in NJ to get her an ID card/permit and transfer the
gun to her? What about transporting a gun between states? Hope I'm
not wasting too much bandwidth here, but I barely understand the
laws in NJ. Maybe I should read today's paper to see what's legal,
at least until midnite ;*) . Thanks.

Bob
From: drs@col.hp.com (Don Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: How to pistol shoot better?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp.9210142004.AA25725


  I have shot my pistol recreationally for years at the range,
   at cans,(plinking) and other sundry fun things like water filled
   milk jugs.   As to my skill level - I'm = ok.

      I keep reading on and off tidbits here on
     'stances" , grips (one and two handed) .
    My question is :  Can I get some help and improvement from books?
                Can I get some help and improvement from classes?
     If books - which ones?
    If advice - I'm soliciting it.
  I would be happy to collect responses and post as a "resource"
  on the subject.
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carry in public places
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ingate.9210120809.aa18679
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1b4mvoINN8vt@gap.caltech.edu> sunshine@cco.caltech.edu (Tom Renner) writes:
#tsw!marc@uunet.UU.NET (Marc Kilburn) writes:
#
#- No carry in "those portions of establishments classified by the state
#     liquor control board as off-limits to persons under 21.  This means
#     no firearms in bars or cocktail lounges."

In addition, you can't carry anywhere if your blood alcohol level is greater
than .10.

	...Dave
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CCW Requirements, Ohio
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:15:07 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

In article <33A71283C0000C3E@UALR.EDU>, lklawson@acs.harding.edu
writes:
|> In article <1992Oct8.150946.7006@icd.ab.com>, kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth
|> D. Whitehead) writes:
|> #Can anybody give me the lowdown on what's required to get a CCW
|> #in Ohio?
|> #
|> #Thanks,
|> #
|> #Ken Whitehead
|> 
|> Well, it's already been pointed out that it's basicaly illeagal to
|> carry
|> concealed in Ohio (prove to the jury and all that stuff).  HOWEVER,
|> it is
|> leagal to OPEN CARY in Ohio.  In otherword, you can strap your
|> shoot'n iron to
|> your hip and go for a quiet little stroll. (If you don't mind
|> paranoid stares
|> from everyone and perhaps a cop stopping you just to find out why) 
|> Doesn't
|> make much sense does it?
|> 
|> -Kirk
|> lklawson@acs.harding.edu
|> 
  Actually what doesn't make sense is whether you carry it
on your hip or under your arm and that by putting on a long
coat over the weapon you become a felon so in effect you
can be arrested in Ohio for putting on a coat at the wrong
time :-)

-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating ability of 38 Sp and 9mm
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: samba.1992Oct9.145844.20277
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

While on vacation last week in the Maine woods where one can actually
shoot atthings other than paper, I tried some of the remington 000 buck
double ball loads in my Taurus 85CH.  At 12' the balls did not separate
and made an oval hole.  Both balls penetrated a 2x12, and one shot split
the board in two.  Remington states they will impact 1-2" apart on close
range shooting, so I guess my definition of close range shooting is
different than theirs.

On a related note, I tried some loads of BB's on 2x12x12 boards.  The
standard factory load of 3 3/4 dram 1 1/4 oz penetrated about 1 1/2 inch
into the board in places where the board hadn't shattered, usually into
three pieces.  My reduced 2 3/4 dram 1 oz loads (in a WAA12 wad)
penetrated about 1 1/4 inch into the wood and usually split the board into
two pieces.  Distance was 7 yards.  The factory load gave a 7" pattern and
the reduced load patterned at 9" with a skeet 1 choke and a 21" barrel.

I also tried a reduced load of #4 buck (25 pellets in an AA wad) and all
25 pellets penetrated a 2" board with a 7" pattern.  The recoil of the 2
3/4 dram load was noticeably less than the standard 3 3/4 dram load.  

The above convinces me that one must aim with a shotgun and that reduced
loads are probably sufficient to achieve the goal of a one shot stop,
while having the advantage of being useful to the recoil shy or smaller
statured person.  I only wish I had brought the 2x4's and dry wall ;-)

Bob
From: ole@delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Remington 700 bolts
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ugle.199210091043.AA01398
Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway.

Receivers and bolts in bolt rifles are usually temered and drawn. To
cut down on production complexity and costs the Remington 700 has both
a receiver made from bar stock, and a bolt to which the bolt handle
and bolt head is brazed after the machining. What bothers me is how do
Remington get the correct heat treatment of the bolt? Do they braze
it, and then temper it, or temper it first, then brazing and drawing
it, or are they simply using alloys that do not need any heat
treatment?

Inquiring minds want to know
From: nahst6+@pitt.edu (Nathan A Horstman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: First pistol recommendations
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:08 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


HELP!  
I have been an avid shooter and hunter for years now, but to date have never 
owned a pistol.  I'm seriously considering buying one, a semi-auto of the 
9 mm persuasion.  However, I am new to the handgun market and have several 
questions.  Here goes:

First:  What pistol would you recommend?  I have two criteria:  Number 1 is
cost.  That is very important.  I'd prefer to spend as little as possible.
Number 2 is accuracy.  Although not as important as cost, I want a gun that
can post pretty decent groups.  So I guess you could say I'm looking for 
the cheapest 9 mm semi-auto that still posts pretty tight circles.  Any 
suggestions?  I'm not too worried about looks or feel.  I've found I can 
adjust to just about anything.

Second:  Where should I look to buy one?  Would a gun show be the best place?
How do I find out about local gun shows (western Pennsylvania)?

Third:  How hard is it to buy a pistol?  How long would I have to wait?  Can
I buy a pistol mail-order?  Out of state?

Thanks for putting up with these rather rudimentary questions.  Either post
responses or send to:

NAHST6@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU

Thanks in advance!

Nathan
From: jwise@csa2.lbl.gov (Jonathan Wise)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Decoding shotgun jargon
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:15:47 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA

I was recently reading ads for shotguns (mostly with prices that
are, unfortunately, far in excess of my monthly salary) and found
several abbreviations that I did not understand.

Can anyone tell me what the following mean?

LT, RK, SST, AE, ST, DT

Thanks in advance.

Jonathan Wise
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: CCW Requirements, Ohio
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:43:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: icd.1992Oct8.150946.7006
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

Can anybody give me the lowdown on what's required to get a CCW
in Ohio?

Thanks,

Ken Whitehead
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 788
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:01 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1992Oct7.235830.23550@ke4zv.uucp>, ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#
#This gun isn't particularly handsome, and the magazine is cheezy,
#but if you're building a single shot bench rifle, you won't find 
#a better starting point than a 788 receiver. There have been many
#articles on fitting this action with a sleeve, with better triggers,
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Allright, I've heard about sleeved actions forever and a
	day, but I don't have a clue what is ment by this. What
	is it, and how does it help accuracy?



#match barrels, and target stocks. Too bad it's out of production.
#
#Gary
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: marty@beta.lanl.gov (Martin G. Halvorson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sight picture and eyes
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.9210082027.AA08963
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <1992Oct7.234659.23440@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#You are becoming progressively far sighted as you age. Eventually even

	It's not becoming more far-sighted.  Rather what's actually happening
	is losing the ability to focus up close.  It's called presbyopia -
	(from American Heritage) "The inability of the eye to focus sharply
	on nearby objects, resulting from the hardening of the crystalline
	lens with advancing age."  i.e. If you were near-sighted, you're
	still near-sighted, you just can't focus on nearby objects.

#The solution is, brace yourself now, *trifocal* lenses. Find an optometrist

	This is also the solution for using a workstation without a lot of
	neck bending trying to look through the bi-focal part of a normally
	located bi-focal.  There is a small disadvantage though, it
	sometimes happens that there will be a small (but noticeable) gap
	between where the middle lens of tri-focals provides sharp focus and
	where the bottom lens provides focus.

	Peace

				Marty
From: slh@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: J&G Sales and spotting scope
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:39:34 GMT
Organization: L.I.T.T.L.E.

I'm thinking of buying a couple of items from J&G Sales (advertises in SGN):
	a B&L ``Baby J'' ``Discovery'' 20x-50x spotting scope w/tripod
	a case (1440) of 7.62x39

Has anyone ordered stuff from these guys before?
Have any comments (especially problems)?
Does anyone know anything about this scope?
I believe I've looked at another model in the line and it seemed ok.

Thanks for any help.