HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: X-based games
In-reply-to: bri@kpc.com's message of Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:18:07 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:10:46

In article <1992Jul26.071807.29884@kpc.com> bri@kpc.com (Brian Rice) writes:
>
> Hey all you gaming wizards, (and you know who you are!) anybody written
> any X-based programs that allow you to *play* casino games?  I've seen
> dozens of programs go by over the years ... and some of them were not
> bad in terms of playing a computer game, but having one or more of them
> written by an expert in *gaming* rather than an expert in programming
> would allow the ability to do both simulations and practice.  I don't
> know about you, but I would much rather try a counting system against
> a computer at no cost than try one live. Blackjack would seem to be the 
> easiest one (well, single deck anyway) but another obvious one based on 
> recent discussions here would be a computerized version of video poker.
>
> Steve?  Michael?  Will?  I'd mention Bharat too, but his program would
> be written in Lisp and would assume intelligence on the part of the
> player as well as the dealer.  :-) :-) :-)

I haven't seen much in the way of X-based gambling programs.  I've
seen a blackjack game that runs under GNU Emacs, but that's about it.
Might be a fun project, but I'm pretty bogged down in other projects
to take on something like this...
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: elliott@aero.org (Kenneth B. Elliott III)
Subject: Re: Look, Ma , one hand!
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Jul31.160055.24833@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>
	<1992Jul31.175325.24605@nevada.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:37:33 GMT


[messiah@nevada.edu (mw)] writes:
>
>My first time at a craps table, years ago, I placed a bet on the Pass Line
>while a point had already been established. What point it was, I can't recall
>suffice it to say that this proposition is a horrible one. 
>

Reminds me of another "gimmick".  At some places in Vegas (Stardust
and Riviera, last time I was there) you need to make a $4 pass/come
bet to take $10 double odds on points of 6 and 8.  If you make a $3
bet, no can do.  They'll also tell you "Put another dollar out there
on your [line/come] bet and you'll be able to take the $10 odds." 
This is *not* a good idea, but I've seen a bunch of people do it.

Other places, however, will let you take $10 odds on 6/8 for a $3
line/come bet.  Palace Station springs to mind.

KBEIII
--

Ken Elliott III                  The Aerospace Corp.
elliott@aero.org                 P.O. Box 92957
(310) 336-8166                   Los Angeles, CA 90009
From: darrenl@natinst.com (Darren Lilie)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Roulette
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:13:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: natinst.1992Jul23.161333.1301
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX

In article <1992Jul23.144442.26263@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk > murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray) writes:
 >
 >         I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know
 >if it's possible to throw a ball to within five numbers- i.e. no more than
 >two either side of a chosen number- at roulette? I have a friend who's
 >dad is a casino manager and he claims that it can be and is done all the time
 >whenever a large bet is placed.
 >
 >         Thanks for any info.
 >
 >       <murraysd@dcs.gla.ac.uk>

When I play roulette, I always wait until after the ball is spun just in case
it is possible for the dealer/roller to land the ball in a certain area. This
way there is no way they can cheat; unless the wheel is rigged/wired in some
way.

Darren
From: mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Roulette
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:53:07 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <13rg2cINNqle@agate.berkeley.edu>, unknown@garnet.berkeley.edu (Eugene M. Shekhtman) writes:
> Evgeny,
> I have a book written by some guy who claims to have beaten the roulette
> by using a computer that he wore on his body into the casino.  He even

      Hmmmmm, I wonder if this guy walks with a limp. Anybody willing
to walk into a casino with a computer arround his body and using it 
to beat the odds is asking for trouble! I dont recommend this! 

                                                          -Mike
-- 
            "Just a little knowledge can be dangerous"  ....Burmashave

Mike Marfell                                      mgm@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Strategy variations at the LV Club
In-reply-to: markowit@deshaw.com's message of Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:36:55 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<JACOBS.92Jul21113317@cells.cs.utah.edu>
	<1992Jul22.163655.29228@deshaw>
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:38:50

In article <1992Jul22.163655.29228@deshaw> markowit@deshaw.com (Steven Markowitz) writes:
> Shouldn't the hit/stand strategy be different when you have a
> five card hand, because of the six card automatic win rule?  In
> _Professional Blackjack_, Stanford Wong gives a hit/stand strategy for
> five card hands in this game, but I don't know whether it is correct.

Yes, and there may be some changes in the four card strategy as
well.  Working these out exactly is a pain, but it can be done.
I plan to add this to my program, but it isn't very high on the
priority list right now.  This same problem comes up with 5-card
"Griffins" (now defunct? -- paid 2:1 for 5-card 21 in Atlantic City)
and any time there is a special bonus for certain combinations of cards.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: FAQ request denied
In-reply-to: why@kpc.com's message of 22 Jul 92 07:12:49 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<JACOBS.92Jul21122446@cells.cs.utah.edu>
	<1992Jul22.071249.7935@kpc.com>
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:06:21

In article <1992Jul22.071249.7935@kpc.com> why@kpc.com (Will Hyde) writes:
>In article <JACOBS.92Jul21122446@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.174853.6625@athena.cs.uga.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>>> The mail I sent to jacob@cs.utah.edu was returned as unable to send. 
>>> Possibly they are experiencing difficulties.  Perhap's someone would like to
>>> send me a copy of the FAQ list.  
>>
>>Hmm... I don't know of any problems with email here, has anybody else
>>had trouble getting mail to me?  I've sent the FAQ to Ted.
>>--
>
>  'Scuse me, but who the hell is jacob@cs.utah.edu ...
>
>   Hey Steve, you know the dude...? 

Beats me, I _did_ say to send requests to jacobs@cs.utah.edu (with
and 's' before the '@'), so maybe that was the problem.

>   He nearly has your name.

How embarrassing for both of us....
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
From: ualxn@mcl.ucsb.edu (Alex)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Trip report & Trop report coming soon
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:56:11 GMT

I just got back from three days in Vegas, staying at the Tropicana on that
L.A. Times 4 hours/2 free nights deal.  I'm writing a trip report now and
it'll be here in a few days.  A few colorful stories and some helpful tips
on how to beat the 4 hour rap.  

=Alex=

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton)
Subject: Re: Roulette
Keywords: TBS
Organization: Twin Peaks Municipal Software Works
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:24:34 GMT


breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes...

>I've heard the same thing: the wheel is generally moving at such a 
>predictable rate that long-time dealers can actually release the ball 
>with some degree of accuracy in hitting at least a quadrant.  Urban 
>myth or no, I've wondered why a similar skill couldn't be developed 
>by a player at predicting the ball drop, no felony required.

In the mid-60s Bob Madalena observed something along these lines during
a trip to Reno.  It wasn't that the dealers were trying to do anything,
just that after a few years (or a few hours) dealers get into a rut of
pick-the-ball-up-and-give-it-a-push with the same monotonous motions.
It was alleged the ball would often land almost directly opposite from
the last winning number.  This would go on for 3-4 spins, then the dealer
would goose the WHEEL, thus destroying the pattern for a spin.  But on
subsequent spins the 180-degree shift would return.

Pehaps dealers have a "characteristic shift" from one area of the wheel
to another, and someone with the right software could infer that pattern.
I betcha casinos would let you bring, say, an HP-48SX to the roulette table.
At least for a while...
--
						"The Smart Money was on Goliath"
						John Hallyburton 43 55'N 71 45'W
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Dogs!
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:15:21 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

Friend gave me an 'admit 2 free' ticket for the local track, so I went down 
there last night.  This is the UK, we usually have 6 dogs/race
2nd race, only 4 runners - 2 "off colour".  No reserves put in.
What the hell is going on?  Doping suspicions all round.  Put me off my form 
study completely.  Lost my wad.  12 races - profit on 2 only.
And the beer tasted of soap.

+--Great Quotes of our Time-------------------------------------------+
|        You should never have a hobby that eats                      |
+--------------------------------------Amarillo Slim Preston----------+          
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England  (44)061-275-6033   |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BJ strategy diff. (need help on  h,dd,s)
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:20:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Jul22.212053.26960
Organization: AT&T

I'm sure this stuff is super-neat-o to all the non-playing experts
out there, but from the perspective of a practicing player, what I want
to know is at what (positive) true count is the crossover point where
doubling A-8 vs 6 becomes more "utilitarian" so to speak?  For example,
according to Griffin (Peter, not Merv), the removal effect of a 3, 4, or 5
from the deck for this play is greater than 3%, in favor of doubling.  So
my wild-ass-guess on this play is that a TC of only +2 or so is going to 
see doubling as better than standing.  If it helps your calculations, you
can assume that my maximum initial bet on a given hand is always <= 1% of
my bankroll (since it is).  (This stuff about 25%-30% bankroll being bet
per hand makes a nice strawman but has little practical value.)

Later,
Jacko.
---
"The most important utility function you need to consider is whether
the floorman is looking for a gift certificate from Bullock's or Sak's"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: SoftQuad Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 12:32:49 GMT

pmfusari@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Fusari) writes:

>For anyone out there who is interested in spotting trends in the winning Lotto 
>6/49 numbers, I have just completed a study on 10 years of 6/49 draws. 
...
>interested.  In order to cover the cost of the copies and binding, I am
>charging a fee of $7.95 per copy.  Satisfaction is guaranteed.  If you  
>would like a copy, send cheque or m/o to P. Fusari, P.O.Box 26094
>King Value Station, Kitchener, ON N2G 4V8.

Satisfaction is guaranteed?  What kind of statement is this?
Sales talk.  The only possible satisfactions are (1) Statistics
and combinatorics fascinations, or (2) winning the lottery,
or (3) just receiving what what you believed was described
and offered here.

The posting doesn't seem to be directed at those who would be interested
in (1).  Winning the lottery seems to be in control of some random
ball bouncer machine that appears live on TV, so unless some
balls have different physical properties than other balls, no
patterns will be useful.  The third possibilty is a small reward
that one takes for granted in doing any kind of business and
if this is being pointed out as a feature this posting must be drawn
up by a scam artist.

--Donald Teed
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: 900073s@dragon.acadiau.ca (Donald Smith)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:49:18 GMT

donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed) writes:

>pmfusari@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Fusari) writes:

>>For anyone out there who is interested in spotting trends in the winning Lotto
>>6/49 numbers, I have just completed a study on 10 years of 6/49 draws.
>...
>>interested.  In order to cover the cost of the copies and binding, I am
>>charging a fee of $7.95 per copy.  Satisfaction is guaranteed.  If you
>>would like a copy, send cheque or m/o to P. Fusari, P.O.Box 26094
>>King Value Station, Kitchener, ON N2G 4V8.

>Satisfaction is guaranteed?  What kind of statement is this?
>Sales talk.  The only possible satisfactions are (1) Statistics
>and combinatorics fascinations, or (2) winning the lottery,
>or (3) just receiving what what you believed was described
>and offered here.

>The posting doesn't seem to be directed at those who would be interested
>in (1).  Winning the lottery seems to be in control of some random
>ball bouncer machine that appears live on TV, so unless some
>balls have different physical properties than other balls, no
>patterns will be useful.  The third possibilty is a small reward
>that one takes for granted in doing any kind of business and
>if this is being pointed out as a feature this posting must be drawn
>up by a scam artist.

  Why are there assholes out there that insist on doing this? As an employee
in a Government sector that tries to help out small businesses, I love nothing
better than to see someone try to make a couple of bucks off of their hard
work.  He is binding the books, and sending them through the mail, and
therefore off of a price of $7.95, he cannot be making much, *maybe* enough
to cover his time.  And you, Mr. High and All-Mighty, are trying to stifle
his efforts!  WHY!?  I must ask?  What is this to you?  Really?  Do you have
some sort of mental problem, where you ripped off by a slick salesman, and
unconsiously have to try to ruin it for everyone else??  What is your problem??

 If you have ever actually, LOOKED at some of the statistics from 6/49 themselv
you would see that some numbers *DO* fall more than others, quite signifigantly
so as well!!  I make it a habit never to play a game with odds higher than
400 to one for a $10 payoff, but these statistics are what some people would
love to have...  If you are so concerned about what this fellow has done, you
should have sent him mail, not this...

 Jerk.
 
-- 
 My .sig file was too long so I canned it.  Mail me if you want it. *grin*
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cmdglv@pmvax.weeg.uiowa.edu (Mark Gleaves)
Subject: What's the countersign?
Reply-To: cmdglv@pmvax.weeg.uiowa.edu
Organization: Preventive Medicine - U. of Iowa
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:32:43 GMT

Well, I'm heading off for my first trip to Vegas from August 1st 
through the 5th and I thought I'd see if any rec.gamblers were
going to be there.  After reading this group for the past couple
of years, I'm sure that spotting a glimpse of one of this newsgroup's
regulars would make my trip complete.

What's the countersign when I hear someone say "Presto"?

And while I'm asking, does anyone know if any of the sports books
will take bets on the Olympics?

                                          Mark
                                          "Golly gee whillikers,
                                          I didn't dare hope to 
                                          meet *you*, Mr. Blair."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mark Gleaves  cmdglv@pmvax.weeg.uiowa.edu

"News burst on us like meridian splendour on a blind man.  We were over-
whelmed with it. . . .  Nor was it until some days had elapsed, that we were
able to methodise it, or reduce it into form." -- Watkin Tench
From: cheese@wam.umd.edu (Fletch F. Fletch)
Subject: Re: AC: Best BJ rules
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:44:50 GMT

In article <84161@netnews.upenn.edu> garay@sapir.lap.upenn.edu (John Garay) writes:
>As someone stuck out here on the east coast, I'm in a good position to give
>At the Claridge, they have a special promotion where different combinations
>of cards pay extra:   7,7,7 any suit pays 3:2
>		      5 card 21 pays 2:1
>		      6,7,8 (different Suits?) pays 3:1
>		      Ace of Hearts with Queen of hearts pays 2:1
>		      DAS, Resplit up to total of 3 hands
>		      Resplit Aces
>		      DOA, Late Surrender
>		      6 deck shoe, sometimes 5$ minimum

Unfortunately, they only have one table like this, their so-called "Las Vegas
Table."  The penetration here is about 60-70% (which isn't bad in AC), but
the table limit usually hovers between $15-25 on the weekends.

Amusing little story:
I was there last weekend, they had a new dealer dealing, obviously very 
nervous.  His up card is a three, he turns over an ace in the hole and calls
"3 or 13!"  I look up and announce "4 or 14!"  He looks down and says "3 or
13!" and pulls the next card out of the shoe...a face card.  "13" he announces.
"14," I say.  By this time the rest of the table figured out his mistake...
He again says "13" and pulls the next card from the shoe...a 9.  He announces,
"23...dealer busts."  I say, "you busted with a 22."  He gets a very confused
look on his face, looks at the cards and reads off, "3 or 13, 13, bust."  I
say, "FOUR or FOURTEEN, FOURTEEN, bust."  He repeats his version...I repeat
mine.  He repeats this about 6 or 7 times, still not realizing his mistake,
very confused as to why the table keeps saying "4 or 14."  One person
at the table looks directly at him and says, "It is FOUR or FOURTEEN!!!"
The dealer looks down, obviously confused, and says, "Ok..." and pulls the
next card from the shoe...a three.  The dealer says, "17!" and begins to pay
off and pull the losing bets...  It took a long time to explain this one to
the pit boss...

Jason
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: FAQ request denied
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:48:53 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


The mail I sent to jacob@cs.utah.edu was returned as unable to send. 
Possibly they are experiencing difficulties.  Perhap's someone would like to
send me a copy of the FAQ list.  


*******************************************************
* Teddy Kalivoda  ------------ tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu *
* 	University Computing & Network Services       *
*	  Institute of Higher Education (Drtobe)      *
*                                                     *
* "Philosophers disagree about everything"            * 
*       --Henrikus Aggripus Cornelius von Nettlesheim *
*******************************************************
From: jason@dcs.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Betting Strategies
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:33:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


I have a question concerning optimal vs. non-optimal betting strategies for
single deck play.  I'll be making my first trip to LV next week, and am quite
concerned with being marked as a counter due to an optimal betting strategy,
even if it is only a 1-4 spread.  Will I get the deck cut in half if I try
playing 1-4 optimal?  Will this generally be noticed quickly?  What about 
most dealers -- will they take it upon themselves to cut back penetration if
they spot a counter?  Is it recommended to use any cover betting, or to use
non-optimal betting -- for example, never more than double your bet after a
win, or more than decrease by 50% after a loss?  How about an optimal 1-3
spread?  Or 1-2?  Are either of these recommended?  If it means anything, I'm
playing Uston APC, and plan to play high enough minimums to get head-on and
two player play...

Thanks for any info,
Jason
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Signalling your partner to the count
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse)
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:09:31 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: as little as possible

Kind of related to my last question, but different.
Lets say you are playing blackjack with your girlfriend
(could be boyfriend, SO, whatever).

Your other hasn't yet mastered counting,  but they have
Basic Strategy under their belts.  Meanwhile, your counting
the cards as you sit next to each other.

How do you think signalling your partner to raise there bet
in favorable situations would work out?  N squeezes bet N
times normal amount, maybe.  Anyone ever try something like this?

Raising you bets together would probably be a dead give away
to something fishy, but who knows, maybe if one of you is
an extremly attractive female distracting the chauvinistic pit
boss it wouldn't be noticed.

Perhaps the counter could bet level and just have his partner
(hopefully the less suspicous looking) change there bets.

wut ya think?
jim
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: EGG9EJS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Re: Dealer doesn't have BJ
Reply-To: eric@hup.ucla.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:21:51 PDT

In article <1992Jul30.195344.784@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu>, on 31 Jul 92 00:53:44 GMT,
jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:

>
>I assume this to be that case but I just want to make sure.
>Do the basic strategy tables, (for example in the FAQ), when
>handling a dealer Ace up assume that the dealer doesn't have
>blackjack...
>
>Since if he did have blackjack the hand would be over. (Most places)
>While if he didn't have blackjack you would know somethine
>about the other card, namely it isn't a ten.
>
Your assumption is correct.  Play is based on the assumption that the
dealer doesn't have a BJ.  In casinoes that don't peek at the dealers
hole card when an ace is up, play is handled the same way as if the
dealer had an ace in the hole and a ten up.  Namely, if the dealer ends
up with a BJ, all additional bets (doubles, splits etc.) are returned
and all player BJ's are pushes.

Eric J. Splaver
eric@hup.ucla.edu