From: trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Reply To Arindam: General Matters
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:02:45 GMT
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago

[As I explained in a separate post, I feel that all PERSONAL comments
involving Arindam now belong in private e-mail. So here I shall only  
respond to the general matters raised.]

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 >mt> ongoing discussion about strife between Hindus and Muslims...

 >at> Nothing wrong with that; we have problems, we should discuss. 
 >at> (Discussion about strife is better than strife.)
 >at> Similarly, Bahais and Muslims should have THEIR discussions. 
 >at> Mainstream Bahais and those you call "covenant breakres" should
 >at> have THEIR discussion. (A house divided lacks the moral authority
 >at> to preach unity to others.)

 > Ah hah : Can you show a single branch which Covenant-breakers (not many 
 > by the by) tried to start which survived after death. Do you know of
 > an "ALTERNATIVE" Bahai faith.

Why wait to see if something survives or not? 
If there is dissent, have a dialaog with them.
If you can't resolve it, just practise a little tolerance.
Here is something that many other religions, Bahai faith NOT excluded,
can learn from Hinduism.

GENERAL NOTE: Covenant-Breakers are those who accept the authority of 
Bahaullah, but not that of the later leadership of the Bahai faith.
If you truly believe *only* in Bahaullah, you are as good as expelled
from the community. [Even limited analogies help. It is a little bit
like the Vatican's approach towards Christ: you didn't get very far
with the Popes by believeing in Christ alone.]


 >at> AND SO ON...
 > Come up with your SO ONS.
 
So argumentative?!?!?! Isn't there enough strife in the world to fill
a few of these pages? :-)

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[On Terminology]

 > Oh could you please give the forms which Hindus unanimously agree
 > to be correct...

You miss the point which was that Hindus have not been fussy about what
someone calls them. Actually, that is something you can learn from.

 >at> At least, give them credit for that. 
 >at> If possible, even learn from them.
 > 
 > We always do

Then keep trying! It will be a good quality when you finally get it.

 > Point is meaningless. We showed why Bahai faith is acceptable and Bahaism
 > is not...

No one SHOWED me any such thing. Mark just SAID that. You REPEATED it. 
Mark said "Bahaism" sounds like some political movement: it certainly
does not *any more* than do Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, etc.

 > Show why Hinduism is not acceptable and what are we supposed to use
 > and have a consensus...

You can call *my* religion "Manav Dharma", "Sanatan Dharma", "Vedanta",
"Hindutva", "Hinduism", "Hindi" [as some have called it], "Krishnism",
"Ram Dharma", "Dev Pooja", "Vaishnavism", "Shaivism", "folks who go to 
temples and worship idols", "the religion of Ramayana", "the religion of 
Mahabharata", "Ganesh worshippers", "Hanuman worshippers", "what's that
religion with Sita in it?", "what Krishna said to Arjun in Gita", etc... 

Once I get the idea, I won't make any fuss about the terminology.

Consensus? We don't have a politbureau.


 > Instead of continuing with your rhetoric will you please give us
 > the term with which Hinduism and Buddhism like to be called.

Not everybody is preoccupied with "terms". 
Don't just argue, LEARN from that!

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 > Just the fact that you considered one isolated suicide case to be
 > usual speaks a volume anout your capacity to investigate.

Oh no, I did not think that suicide is "usual" anywhere.
But it's not a question of statistics: it was someone I *knew*.
And it does show that while Bahais have a EXTREMELY FINE religion,
it is not the absolute (and the only) spiritual elixir that some
well-meaning souls would make it out to be.

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian