HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Question about non-rights laws (OR:9 CO:2)
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:43:25 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) wrote:
>I have a brief memory of something in history, but I might be wrong.
>Could a more knowledgable motsser provide details? I seem to remember
>that in the 50s/60s some gay bars were being raided or shut down as
>gathering places for people who committed sodomy, but that some high
>court ruled that this harassment was a violation of the right to
>gather peacefully (which I thought was in the Bill of Rights, but I
>can't find it now). Am I making this up?

I think this may be more recent.  Until a couple of years ago, Virginia
had a law outlawing the serving of alcohol to LGB people, if I remember
correctly.  The law was struck down in court.  Until this happened,
theoretically there were no gay bars in the state.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: ending the military ban
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:45:15 GMT


Some of you may remember about 6 months ago I pleaded for help for
a friend in England who was being discharged for homosexuality. Well,
he finally arrived in the States.  The AF, after discharging him in
March, was holding him as a witness; he was to finger an officer at
a discharge trial.  Thanks to your suggestions, addresses, phone 
numbers, and news briefs, I was able to give Will some good advice.
He wrote Sec. of State Cheney, and Sen. Pat. Schroder(sp), plus another
senator that sponsored a gay-rights bill.  The result was several mad
Senators and a fuming Cheney ripping up the command at Bentwaters RAF,
near Felixstowe, England.  Will was released in one weeks time, nearly
thrown off the Island.  

He was told that he was one of the last to be discharged for Homosexuality.
While the Bill is in Congress, the Air Force Office of Special
Investigations (OSI) is no longer persuing Gay and Lesbian military
members.  [this may change if the Bill fails.] 

Will is hoping it does pass so that he can re-enlist and serve the
remaining 10 years in his career.

While waiting for the AF to do something with him, Will managed
to make strong allies in the command structure at Bentwaters who
felt his homosexuality was secondary to his ability as an Airman.
The indians seem to know more than the chiefs.


Shawn

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Utopia (was Re: mandatory service)
Organization: Stanford University
	<ROBERTL.92Aug13201459@luciano.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Aug14.043153.27273@macc.wisc.edu>
	<1992Aug14.170005.7011@riacs.edu>
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:29:28

In article <1992Aug14.170005.7011@riacs.edu> David Christopher Rogers <drogers@riacs.edu> writes:

       Message-ID:  <ROBERTL.92Aug13201459@luciano.Stanford.EDU>
       From:  robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) 

       >>The negative aspects of human nature rule out the simple
       >>utopias,

       Message-ID: <1992Aug14.043153.27273@macc.wisc.edu> 
       From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) 

       >I believe the error in this idea is to think there *is* a
       >"human nature."  There is just nature.

   Worse error is assuming that human attributes such as
   aggressiveness, altruism, hatred, and love can be neatly classified
   into "positive" and "negative" traits, and all we need to do to
   utopianize ourselves is to purge the bad ones.  Communism was to be
   a society based on altruism, for example.

I think at least a partial classification is possible.  For example, I
can't think of anything positive about hate, so classifying hate as
negative seems accurate.    

It's the purging part that is difficult if not impossible.  

Even if one could devise a method of altering human characteristics
that would work, would it be right to impose it on everyone?  If so,
how should it be implemented?  Hard questions to answer.

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: Re: International Male (was R
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:41:04 GMT

Eric Hunt (eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com) wrote
[about the International Male catalog, and why
they might not be too overtly (ha!) gay]:
 
> I think it's more than that. I think they'll loose the MASSIVE newsstand
> exposure they get right now if they 'come out of the closet.' I mean, in
> this godforsaken Biblethumping hellhole we call Alabama, IM is on every
> newsstand you see practically.

An observation:

I can remember about 10 years ago a *furor* when
someone publically suggested that GQ magazine was
read primarily by gay men.  GQ went to *great*,
*extraordinary* lengths to deny this.

Sometime, maybe 5 years ago, Muscle & Fitness
magazine, which formerly had always feature only
a male bodybuilder on the cover, suddenly started
running covers that *always* had both a male and
female.  [Admittedly, inclusiveness may have been
their goal....]

Last year [?], IM had a summer catalog with a
*prominantly* displayed, fully decorative female
on the cover, with several cameo appearances
inside.  Now, you know perhaps how often IM 
reuses their photographic work [I read it *only*
for the articles, mind]; she *never* was seen
again after that *one* catalog.

Is there a trend here?

--jns
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:12:21 GMT
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA

In article <1992Aug19.215833.10537@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> If you're actually keeping score - here's my rule. It's very simple.
> If it wiggled, I won't eat it.

  No Venus Fly Traps? What about Bromiliads that "ingest" the bugs
that land in its little pool of water? What about pulsating man flesh?
:-)
 
> I'm serious.

  No doubt.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 23:00:21 GMT

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>Unfortunately, making your voice deeper is very difficult.  I've heard that
>it's very hard on the vocal chords, much harder than raising it. 

Being a radio fag, I've had a little experience working with voices. Most
people I know try to relax (*try* to relax, riiiight), and speak from
deeper in their throats than usual. I think it's not too hard to lower
your voice a little bit, but to get it *really* low, well...

Bill, who's always wanted to sing like Tom Waits for more than 20 seconds
at a time without great pain

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Barbara Bush is a piece of shit.
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:20:36 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics

In article <1992Aug21.133620.126762@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY) writes:
>Why don't we bump the bozo and elect
>the Babs?  Makes nore sense.
>

Barbara Bush sucks.  It was finalized for me last night.  No more
making excuses for her.  She may have a grandmother face, but she
stinks like the rest of 'em.

Why?

Last night when Danny-boy condemned us all ( He was carrying on about the
America grew up in, how great it was, and how we have to hold on to our
family values. Then came something like:  "...and some people think that
other lifestyles are acceptable, but we do not" )  

It was a clear attack on the GLB community, and 
guess who clapped and smiled warmly?  
Sitting all by herself? 
With a look that said "Oh, gosh, that Danny sure does do us all proud."

Well, Barbara Bush can stick my lifestyle up her family's values.


pauli.
From: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:27:30 GMT
Reply-To: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Organization: International Computers Limited, Reston, Virginia, USA

In article <1992Aug19.041036.20784@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>
>While working in the box office, I have actually been asked when the
>next show starts, by someone standing right in front of the box office
>marquee that lists all the showtimes.
>
>Kinda makes you wonder about humans being intelligent...

A digression?  I can't help it...

When I was working at a movie theater in 1979 I was asked to stand
in for one of the ushers for a while.  The movie "Apocalypse Now"
was showing, with huge lines waiting for it to begin.  Shouldering
through the crowd comes this rather strange looking fellow who stops
directly in front of me, looks around, perplexed, and queries:

"Can I go into apoplexy now?"

I really didn't know how to respond, so I simply said "No, not yet."

Michelle, who still regrets the lost opportunity
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo and Family
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: the mixed emotions of grieving
Organization: not much right now
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:37:24 GMT

jack hamilton's posting said several things that resonated with
me...

the suddenness of rob's falling away from us. i told a friend
here last week about how crazy i was over this, and she said,
yes, it's like having a good friend in a plane crash (something
that had in fact happened to her last year).

having my younger brothers die will never seem natural to me, but most
of the time there is a progression, not a catastrophe, so that there
is time to say settle last things, to say goodbye (as i did with john
martin a year ago; we hugged and kissed and both knew we would never
see one another again).  i really did expect to see rob again in
january (his 40th birthday party in concord early in march was for
jacques and me a brief and delightful respite from a winter quarter in
which we were immersed in death, starting with john martin's, and we
looked forward to being with rob again and catching some echoes of
that moment).

the *anger*, which boils up at the end of jack's posting.  rage at the
people who let things get to this state.  and for me, anger at rob for
leaving us, and guilt at that anger.  (you always feel this way when
someone you love dies.  but it's a *horrible* set of emotions.)

the thoughts that you will see and talk to him again.  this, too, is
perfectly ordinary.  i keep finding that i want to call my dad to ask
his advice on how to manage *his estate*; he was always my best
adviser in money matters.  i kept expecting to see john martin in
palo alto this winter, and several times thought i'd caught sight
of him.  i recently made a new woman friend, a vet, a horsewoman,
with this great wry sense of humor and this marvelous take on
life, and i thought, "ann will *really* like catherine" - but ann's
been dead for seven years now.

and now i expect to have rob breaking in on these discussions
of masculinity and so on, and i want to write and ask about his
reactions to what i've posted.

i've said this before here, but after ann died i *did* talk to
her - at first out loud (when i was safely alone, of course),
and then (and now) just in my head.  i tell her about events in
my life and my worries about matters large and small.  this
is comforting.  and of course sometimes i write a letter to ann
but send it to jacques or ann's best female friend, in denver,
or someone else who knows us both; for them, it's just a letter
to them, but i know it's also to ann, because it takes her
sensibilities and cast of mind into account.

i have no doubt that soon i will be writing to rob, but posting
the letter to you all.  this is a nice thought.

arnold (*not* crying any more)
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OR: 9 Supporter Sighting
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:42:00 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy

In article <1992Aug19.163914.12705@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
>Greetings -
>
>As I arrived at the bus stop this morning, I saw my first "Yes on 9." :-(
[...]
>Encouragement and epithet suggestions (or
>instant enlightenment phrases) welcome.  Thanks for listening!

Don't know what to say to one of those goofs, but if you see a poster
bearing this phrase, spray-paint a "6" in front of the "9."

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||            -- My Bloody Valentine
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 18 Aug 1992 10:34:47 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu


In article <64226@cup.portal.com> 
Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> Jess Anderson writes:
> >adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson) writes:
> >>[Lovegod wrote:]
> >>>Haven't you ever had a good friend who wasn't at the start?
> >>>Have you ever felt like you have nowhere else to go?
> >
> >>Um, I'm not sure what the first question means.  The second?  
> >>Sure.
> >
> >The first question means: hasn't anyone ever forgiven you
> >for being the way you are?

Ah, thank you.  I kept wondering which "start" he was talking
about.  Haven't I ever had a good friend who wasn't at the
start of the Grand Prix?  Yes, most of them, in fact.  I wonder
if that's what Lovegod meant.

> Given the way he's behaving, I would not be at all surprised if
> the answer to this is "NO".

I can't tell you how much this love and support means to me.
I love you all.  Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
 
> () The biggest barrier to communication is the assumption
> () that it's taking place.

Tell me about it.

Arne
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:45:18 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <1992Aug16.193801.4950@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.153253.2613@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>I just noticed tonight that International Male is selling Freedom Rings
>>>in their catalog.  
>>	That's all we need - more co-opting of symbols of gay pride, etc.
>>as *fashion statements* and *fashion accessories*...
>
>Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
>they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.


I know one straight guy who gets it and orders stuff from it.
The idea of this person in a little silk thong makes me want
to barf, however.

May as well let them sell the rings. People have to get them
somewhere and people out in the boonies are often forced to
resort to catalogues.

Besides, aren`t all articles of clothing and jewelry a fashion statement?
Even if they are a political statement also? Even not making a statement
is making the statement, "I am *not* making a statement!"

The mind reels.

ER

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I can't help it, I was born sneering."
			-Pooh Bah
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.movies
From: spencer@ernie.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: Showtime
Followup-To: rec.arts.movies
Reply-To: spencer@ernie.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 06:30:40 GMT

*** NOTE REDIRECTION OF FOLLOWUPS

In article <6w!nk++.jfh@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.041036.20784@Princeton.EDU> 
>spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>>
>>While working in the box office, I have actually been asked when the
>>next show starts, by someone standing right in front of the box office
>>marquee that lists all the showtimes.
>
>I assume it's a movie theatre, in which case the question might not be all
>that unreasonable.  Many theatres around here don't actually start the main
>feature until 5 or 10 minutes after the posted time. 

I sincerely doubt that was what he was asking, but I answered him
politely anyway :-)

FYI, if any of you movie-goers ever need to know this, be sure you
specify "When does the feature itself start?"  Although for some reason
this has always seemed like an annoying question to me.  To my way of
thinking, the showtimes advertised mean "The movie will begin no earlier
than this.  Arrive later at your own risk."

Actually no.  It's not the question itself that bothers me.  It's when
people show up half an hour late and say "How much have we missed?" and
then after that ask "Well when did the feature itself start?"

I dunno why it bothers me, because it's not a wholly unreasonable
question, but.  Something about it irritates me.  Maybe it's because
some people ask it with a whining, complaining tone of voice.  (The
amusing bit is when people ask you "Can you tell us what's happened so
far?")

Followups to rec.arts.movies... (.sig randomly chosen, but very
appropriate here :-) )

----------- The opinions expressed in this article are solely mine. -----------
<Insert lame attempt at disclaimer humor>
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"Let me explain.  No, there is too much.  Let me sum up."

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Attitude Rebuked (was Re: On Banning Private Discrimination)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:43:18 GMT


In article <1992Aug11.052112.16592@rigel.econ.uga.edu>, hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug10.145058.13265@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
|>    [...]
|> >I won't forget, sir.  But I don't figure out any way
|> >to butch up that statement, so I guess I can't respond
|> >to it. 
|> 
|>     More semicolons.

More?  I find semicolons give a deliciously *arch*
feeling, and arch is *not* butch.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:28:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41667
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug19.170227.10860@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.182110.2986@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>>There is a whole, invisible chunk of gay men that won't come out because
>>they refuse to be identified with the intentional femininity and 
>>other bizarre practices that are prevalent among the fringe.
>
>Their problem.

Actually, I find their behavior to be a bizarre practice.  Coming out
has a lot less to do with who you might be associated with than it
has to do with making a statement about who you are.  Define your own
space.  Not coming out because of 'fringe practices' (your words, not
mine) is sort of like saying that you won't go into politics because
of Dan Quayle.

Sounds like someone is trying to shore up their closet.

I would conjecture that it is these people who are on the fringe, not
the people with whom they refuse to associate.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 23:12:53 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Robert Bernardo (1952-1992)
 <17496@autodesk.COM>

i can't believe it.  i didn't even know he was sick.  i
read the "i will miss him" post thinking someone had lost
their net access, and then just paged through it in a blur
thinking "what, dead?  rob?  i MUST be misreading this!"
and looking for some explanation.

my condolences to all the people who actually knew him.  i
had only read his posts and hoped to meet him in person someday,
even if i DID disagree with his postings at times.  didn't
matter.  i like all of the frequent posters.

damn.  i'm babbling.  i'm sorry.  goddammitall, IT ISN'T FAIR!

                                      -ailsa
                                       wishing i were more eloquent
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Privilege
Keywords: naughty more naughty really naughty
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:02:05 GMT

ryerson.schwark writes
> Boy, bend over and I will give so many inches of happy homo privelege
> that you'll grunt like a pig.  :-)

Grandmama, I'm shocked!  You didn't make that offer to the rest of us when  
we were at the .con! ;-)
--
Cliff Winnig     			 -------_
cliff@uchicago.edu		          \ hi //
or, for mail with NeXT attachments:        \  //
grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu	            \//
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lee@uniadv.uadv.uci.edu
Subject: pen pals wanted
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:28:39 GMT

Hi,
	My name is Chieh-Li Lee.  I am looking for E-mail pen pals.  
Anybody who's interested is welcome to send me a letter.
	My profile:  Asian, 22-years-old, 5'6", 120lbs, Birth sign: Cancer,
loves tennis, bowling, computers, movies, and anything that is interesting. 
 Friends describes as "elegant and graceful".  Junior majoring Information 
Computer Science here at University of California, Irvine Campus.  Co-chair 
of the Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Student Union at Irvine.  A volunteer 
worker at AIDS Educations in Orange County Red Cross.
	Please E-mail me at "lee@uniadv.uadv.uci.edu", thanks.
						Chieh-Li Lee 
Newsgroups: soc.motss