HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@navaho.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: Re: Q: Tweeter wiring from CSR..
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 00:40:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.231350.7955@scott.skidmore.edu>, jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu (jason reiser) writes:
|> insomnia@carson.u.washington.edu (Ryan Klemmer) writes:
|> > gianos@leland.Stanford.EDU (Edward Alexander Gianos) writes:
|> > 
|> > >In the latest (Nov/Dec) CSR, about one of the installs, page 42, col3, PP2:
|> > > 
|> > >"  Next, the installer replaced the stock 3.5 inch dash speakers with 
|> > >   Infinity's 1-inch Polycell tweeters.  The tweets fire straight up into
|> > >   the windshield from a custom 1/4 inch Masonite plate; Barish wired them
|> > >   out of phase so the reflected sound is in phase when it reaches Fine's
|> > >   ears.  "

[...]

|> Just to add a little clarification as to why this is done...
|> 	Ryan is correct that often tweeters are wired out of phase
|> with their accompanying mids in order to correct a 180 degree phase
|> difference.  But when does this apply?  Well, if you use a passive
|> crossover for your mids and tweeters and it happens to be 12db/octave,
|> then there will be a 180 degree phase difference.  (at 6db/octave -->
|> 90 degrees out of phase, 18db --> 270 degree out of phase, etc.)  I am
|> not entirely sure if this also applies to active crossovers, but I
|> believe it does.  Anyone care to clarify my clarification?
|> 
|> 				- Jason
|> jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu

When using an active crossover that is 12dB/oct you also have to 
wire the tweeters out of phase with the mids.  However, this is
theory is based upon drivers that have flat phase response and 
having your mid and high drivers at a coincident point.  Of course
real world drivers don't have flat phase response but most are 
reasonably flat in the crossover region.  Most installations 
don't place the tweeter very close to the mid (certainly not
coincident) so you should try the tweeter both in and out of phase
with the mids.  One of the two will probably have a bad "suck out"
or attenuation near the crossover frequency.  This is the wrong
phase.  In short pick the phase that sounds best.

I got the impression from the original quote that the tweeters were 
wired out of phase with each other--not with the mids.  Your 
explaination seems a lot more logical, but I've seen weird things done 
in cars before (like wiring tweeters out of phase with each other).  
The only possible reason I can see for this is that the installer 
*thought* he was time aligning the system or something along those 
lines.  I would like to see/hear a system which has delay to the 
passenger side speakers to make up for the arrival time difference
between the driver's side and passenger side speakers.  Of course this
would only sound right to the driver, but it would sound really good.

			Brian L. Gentry
		   (brian@sioux.eel.ufl.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: mccurdy@bestsd.sdsu.edu (McCurdy M.)
Subject: Re: Car stereo security
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: San Diego State University - Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:03:00 GMT

In article <PBG.92Oct6101723@bob.cs.brown.edu>, pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin)      writes...
>And of course it's a pain to carry the large-ish unit.  So, I'm
>thinking about getting one of those removable-faceplate stereos to
>replace it.  My question is, do thieves know that they are useless
>without the faceplate, or do they attempt to steal them anyway and
>only find out later that it is (supposedly) very difficult to get
>replacement faceplates.  Thanks for any help and commiseration...
> 

Hopefully, as they become "educated". Also, there's probably a good chance 
that these will all eventually be designed so that the faceplate only works 
with the unit that it comes with. If that's true, then thieves won't be able 
to tell which players have this feature - which ones to steal.


Mike McCurdy			Disclaimer:
VAX Systems Management		     
San Diego State University		"Everything I say may be wrong."
mccurdy@bestsd.sdsu.edu
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Capacitors & Inductors (where to get them)!
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:34:38 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Chevron


 Mark,

     I've seen stuff from ORION and PACIFIC ACCESSORIES.

 TRAVIS
 former A-12 SW ENGR
 GDFWD, 067-6
 
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: yystg@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (STEVE GRAHAM)
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  6 Oct 1992 16:39 EST  

In article <1992Oct4.160819.13771@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy) writes...
(stuff deleted)

> 
>My unit(s) are installed in a classic 1966 mustang, that is
>driven only on nice days in the summer.  The unit I am
>comparing it to is installed in a Beretta, and is used daily.
> 
>Most of the above factor's are irrelevant, my biggest
>complaint is how they handled me, their attitude was "You are
>having a problem with a ALPINE? Are you sure?? Our products
>never break!"...  Yea... Right... Get a clue!
> 
>Marc
>..
> 

just a thought on the 7909 (same model line as the 7903)...

quotes from Car Stereo Review, Sept, Oct, 1992:
"best in-dash, single-play CD component ever made"
"legions of installers, sound-off competitors, and amp and speaker 
manufacturers not only loved its sound but said the darn thing just didn't 
break."
"Sounds great.  Doesn't break."

These are quotes from their fifth anniversary issue, the 7909 was included 
in the 5 best car Audio Products.


If you have problems with skipping/mistracking, and your unit is already 
out of warantee, take 30 minutes and carefully disassemble your CD player 
or have someone else do it for you if you can't, and clean the lense with a 
Q-Tip and alcohol.  It should do wonders.  You may even be able to get away 
with a cleaning disk - I just dissasembled mine (I dropped it and had to 
repair some bent parts :-( )  I cleaned the lense, and now it skips less 
than before I dropped it on concrete.  Please - no stupid remarks ie, 
"gee, dropping it on concrete made it work better" :-)

Most CD players require cleaning after 6 months to a year, and if it sits 
around in a dusty environment, well...

S. Graham
From: cjm9321@hertz.njit.edu (The InfoMan)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: large capacitors
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:02:21 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


	I understand that the caps supply voltage when it can't get it
from the battery but will installing the cap stop making my lights dim?
I can't figure out how many amps my alternator puts out so if anyone
knows please tell me. I have a '87 Pontiac Safari Wagon.


					Thanks for the help,

-- 
M A D E   .   . .---. .---.    \  Buy U.S.A. products,  /    xxxxx ==========
  I N     |   |  \    |___|    <     It's YOUR job.     >    xxxxx ========== 
 T H E    |   |    \  |   |    <  Christopher J. Massa  >    ================
-------   `---' `---' '   `    / cjm9321@hertz.njit.edu \    ================
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu (jason reiser)
Subject: Re: large capacitors
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:20:31 GMT

rkb6116@rigel.tamu.edu (Mr. Weather) writes:
> I have seen many installations and heard much talk here about the use
> of large capacitors in car audio set ups.  What are they used for?
> 
> Mr. Weather <> aka Ken Blair <> rkb6116@zeus.tamu.edu <> Aggieland USA

Ken,
	While I kind of like Robert Lau's exlaination of their
purpose, I still feel strangely compelled to explain further.
Basically, a large capacitor is used in parallel with the amplifier's
power wire.  It is wired right at the amp, and it's other lead is
grounded.  Capacitors in general store energy, and these serve to
store up energy too.  When your system pounds out a note that requires
a lot of power (like a low bass note) the car's electrical system does
its best to supply the amp with the required current.  If it succeeds,
what happens if there is another power consuming note right after
that?  Well, it tends to sound empty as the system lacks the power to
produce the note at full rated power.  (The amp can't produce music
without power from the battery... or some other source...)  That's
where the big cap's come in.  
	Capacitors store electrical energy very quickly, and can
discharge just as quick.  So now when the system requires power that
would otherwise be unavailable, it will get the difference from the
capacitor.  I have not yet heard a system with one in it that I had
heard before without, so it would be difficult to say that it DOES
work.  However, in speaking with Richard Clark, I think that this will
be my next upgrade.  He recommends using about 1 farad per 1000watts
RMS in your system as a guideline.  Keep in mind that these are rated
at at least 20 volts average (not maximum).  There are some
electronics suppliers that have caps up to about 300,000 microfarads,
but I believe that Autosound 2000 is currently the only source for the
800,000 uf and 1 farad caps.  I believe that there are larger ones in
development (about 1.2 or 1.3 farads).  
	I would like to hear from anyone who has added these to their
system with success or failure.  

BTW, I know that I have used the word (power) kind of loosely in
reference to the capacitor storing power.  This may be current,
power... I am not sure off hand, but I think the concept is not lost
in the explaination.

Hope that helps.
				- Jason
jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu
From: vincent@garnet (Vincent Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Car audio equipment for sale
Followup-To: rec.audio.car
Date: 1 Oct 1992 21:23:44 GMT
Organization: WSSG
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tmf2mac23.berkeley.edu

Regarding: 
 
> SAS Bazooka Bass tube 8" version
> HiFonics Cyclops 100 Watt Bass amplifier
> Acoustic active crossover network
> 
> 

I'm interested. However, I live in California. How much do you want? Give
me a call because I'm very serious. Been looking for those things for a
while. Call 510-841-4942. Ask for Vincent.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: blaine@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Greyland Blaine Mull)
Subject: Re: Punch 45 Max. load rating
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:04:06 GMT

tjd28@cas.org writes:

>Does anyone know if a Punch 45 is stable at 2 ohms?  If it isn't
>what is it stable to?

	From the Punch amps' owners manual (for the 45, 75, and 150),
I quote "...the measured resistance for each side cannot be less than
1.8 ohms."  This gives you a small margin of safety because the internal
fuses don't blow until the load falls short of 1.5 ohms/channel.

-grey

 Grey Mull	       +Disclamer:  I didn't say it,-+  Macintosh
 blaine@catt.ncsu.edu  |   You didn't see me say it, |       to
 gbmull@eos.ncsu.edu   +---You can't prove anything!-+      NeXT...
NC State CATT Program				Steve Jobs continues...
From: todd@crayola (Todd Katz)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:13:35 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

How do you like your DAT?



In article <1992Sep28.143044.9371@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>  
rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
> 
> does anyone know if/when these will be available for car units?
> i once saw an ad for a DAT unit but since then nothing.  also will  
digital
> compact cassette(DCC) ever appear...or is this just another one of those
> popular science article things that never really happen???
> please send email since i don't read this group much.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy)
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:13:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.213810.2910@wkuvx1.bitnet> laflisc@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>In article <tom.718217112@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu>, tom@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Tom McCain) writes:
>> mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy) writes:
>> 
>> : Most of the above factor's are irrelevant, my biggest
>> : complaint is how they handled me, their attitude was "You are
>> : having a problem with a ALPINE? Are you sure?? Our products
>> : never break!"...  Yea... Right... Get a clue!
>> 
>> By the sound of your attitude (as usual), I'm sure their attituded was
>> justified....  Go buy a Craig, it will be cheap and you'll be
>> happy!
>> 


I was trying to help the net in NOT being royaly screwed by
alpine, as I was.. Trying to get the point across that alpine
is NOT the quality is used to be.

>
>I agree with Tom that you should go buy a Craig and be happy.  While
>your at it stop posting notes in which your are just crying with not
>giving a good explanation.  What is wrong with your pieces? 
>Everything is important when you are trying to find problems.  If you
>put a unit in a place where it might get wet but dont tell some one
>who is trying to fix "the sudden shorting problem that wont go away", then
>you are the problem.
>But you sound like you will never listen to any one who uses Alpine
>products so never mind.


The car the stereo is in has never seen rain, neither has the
stereo.           

>BTW I have had a 7380 for 5 years with no problems.  Except the time a
>drunken friend stuck a melted tape in it.  Of course the local dealer
>just sent it to Alpine and they told me to fuck off.  NOT 
>They fixed it and sent it back, all for free.......go figure.
>

5 years ago, they made a decent unit.
Having worked in retail for many years, I can figure....  The
dealer was nice, and pulled some strings with alpine.

Maby my point was not clear:  The unit's that I bought 3 years
ago, (Along with some friends who bought the SAME units and
the SAME time) all have the same problems, along with some
mail I have received from people on the net (Who wont post for
some reason) I can conclude that theese problems are common to
theese units, and alpine should be responsible.  My complaint
was how alpine handled me, and even if I had a bad attitude
(Wich I did not) THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!  The more
reasearch I do on this unit, the more I know I am right!

Marc.
From: jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu (jason reiser)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: amp placement
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:30:22 GMT
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY

walkerr@yoyodyne.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker) writes:
> I have a '78 Ford Bronco and i plan on building 2 boxws for subs to put
> behind the wheel wells.  I haven't found a good enough place to stick the
> amp and was wonderig if it is ok to put it inside one of the boxes.   
> Does the speaker magnet interfere somehow with the amplifier, how about crossovers?  Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.
> 

If the box is sealed, then definitely not, as the amp requires some
way to disipate heat.  If it's a ported enclosure, this might be a
reasonable consideration considering the constant air flow over the
amp's heat sinks.  BUT, the box still has to be solidly built and
sealed except for the port(s).  So there can't be any air excaping
around wiring holes.  This might end up being a pain to build, though
I don't see any real problem with the design concept.  (ANYONE ELSE?)
You could also consider building an additional compartment on one of
the boxes to house the amp with either holes or fan(s) for
ventilation.

				- Jason
jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu
From: ksham@aludra.usc.edu (Kam-Cheung Sham)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Need suggestion on system components
Date: 30 Sep 1992 06:11:37 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu



I would be interested in installing a new CD player and amplifier for my
automobile. My interest in the amplifier is something with 2-channel 80 to
150 Watts into 4 ohms. For the CD player, 1-disc is fine, as long as it
doesn't skip and have a little anti-theft design (i.e. pullout/face-lift).
Budget would be under $400 for the amplifier, and another $400 for the CD
player.

Your suggestions are grealy appreciated. Also I'd like to know some mail-order
company that carry out higher quality products.

Carlos
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith M. Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Speaking of annoying things...
Date: 27 Sep 1992 14:13:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kmr4@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith M. Ryan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


	The most annoying vehicles in my book are the darn ice cream trucks!
When I was younger, I hated those darn trucks, with their cutesy jiggles
playing. I always wanted to run out in the street with a bazooka and blow
it sky high!  And I still want to! <grin>
-- 

	What God wants Gods gets... God help us all


Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: brian@creek.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: Re: hifonics amps
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:14:35 GMT

In a previous article Ruben Pesina says:

  oh yeah- why do the d-20's have a capacitor in line with a 2 ohm resistor?
  i know why the cap is there, but the resistor seems rather pointless--it just
  draws power from the tweet instead of letting it scream like it should...
  any replies on that would be appreciated cuz i'm about to take it off, and am
  not sure if it has any warranty implications. 
  thanks

This depends upon how it is wired.  If it is like this:

 +0---------------/\/\/\/\/----||-----0 + 
                      R         C
 amp                                    tweeter

- 0-----------------------------------0 -

Then the resistor is just a pad (attenuator, shelving, etc).  But if it
is like this:

  + 0--------0--------0 +
             |
             \
             / R
             \
   amp       /         tweeter
             |
            _|_
            ___ C 
             |
             |
  - 0--------0--------0 -

Then it is a Zobel network.  This network is quite usefull in smoothing
the impendance and frequency response of drivers.  It should not be
removed.

My guess is that it's a pad.  Stillwater probably put it there because
it's a very efficiency tweeter.  With the resistor in place, the tweeter
is not as efficient and it will match most midrange speakers much better.
If you take it off the sound may become excessively bright.  On the other
hand you might like the sound (lots of people still love the highs as loud
as their system can get them).  One additional note.  If it is wired as
a pad then removing it will shift the crossover point up.  If it is a four
ohm tweeter with a 2 ohm pad then the crossover point will be multiplied
by 1.5.

			Brian L. Gentry
		    (brian@sioux.eel.ufl.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: chenh@neptune.ecs.csus.edu (H. Philip Chen)
Subject: Re: 2 ohms vs. 4 ohms
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 02:20:40 GMT

jsc52962@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey S. Curtis) writes:
>If I can get a two channel amp that's stable at 2 ohms cheaper than a
>four channel amp, and both produce roughly the same net power at each
>speaker, is there any reason not to buy the two channel amp? Does running
>speakers in parallel introduce any problems that would make me not want
>to do this?

The damping factor will be halved, and the sound quality will/may be
different.                                       ^^^ not talking 
                                                     'bout quantity!

(Depending on your intended application/setup, you might loose the
front-to-rear fading too.)

Anyway if you still like to, give some considerations to the various 
amps with larger and thicker heatsinks.  That's so that the extra heat
generated while in the 2-ohm mode can dissipate a little better.
Have fun there!


Best wishes,

-phil
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Car stereo security
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:02:09 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Chevron


 Well.. since the subject has come up again, I'll repost what
 I said about 3 weeks ago:


 Unfortunately, they steal just about everything these days.

 The pull-outs and detachable faces are good ideas but they don't really
 STOP the crime, just limit its profitabilty.  They might stop some kid
 looking to impress friends or getting his own system really cheap, but
 they won't stop the druggie or pro.  And think of the damage done to 
 your car!

 When you use a pull-out, you still leave the mounting hardware in the 
 dash.  The manufacturers have made it difficult and expensive to
 replace these.  Therefore, a black market has arisen in mounting
 brackets and sleeves.  If they see a black hole in your dash, they
 know several things right off:
    1 - you've got something nice and expensive
    2 - they can get $20-$40 just for the mounting hardware
    3 - you're also likely to have expensive amps and speakers
    4 - you're probably too lazy to keep lugging that 2-4 lb deck
        around so it's most likely to be stuck under the seat or in 
        the trunk. 

 When you use a detachable faceplate, you still leave valuable stuff
 behind.  The manufacturers have not advertized enough that the body is
 useless without the faceplate, so it still gets stolen.  I asked a
 dealer he said that some charge about $200-$300 to replace a stolen
 deck body to match the retained faceplate and you have to provide all
 sorts of documentation to prove you're you.  Heck, you can buy a new 
 one for that!  And the same points from above apply plus:
    5 - they can't tell its a pull-out or detachable
    6 - are contacts reliable long-term yet?  If not, you'll start 
        leaving it attached when you start noticing wear or having
        trouble.

 I'd recommend that you select a Fixed Mount and used the money saved
 over the pull-out or detachable versions to put towards a good alarm
 system.  A good perimeter detection system like the Alpine 8040 should
 help prevent a break-in.  Remember, the breaking of the glass and 
 tearing up of the dash, seats, and/or trunk will cost you at least thea
 price of your insurance deductable ($250-$500) plus the possible rise
 in your future insurance premiums regardless of what mounting you use!


 I hope this helps.  :)

 TRAVIS
From: mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:43:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <69998@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0869a@prism.gatech.EDU (WATERS,CLYDE GORDON) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.131303.18256@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct4.213810.2910@wkuvx1.bitnet> laflisc@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
> While Alpine has probably built some lemon units 
>(no company is EVER free from defects!) their defective rate is still just
>about the lowest in the industry!!!
>

I dont have enough data to dispute this opinion, BUT when they
DO have a unit that is a lemon (for a given model) they SHOULD
stand behind the customer.  If you own a 1988 Beretta, you can
get the door hinges fixed FOR FREE at ANY CHEVY dealer!  This
is because Chevy realized that they had a defect in the car
that did not show up under the standard warranty period.  I
have reason to believe that Alpine KNOWS about my problem, and
it is verry common.  


Marc.
From: tom@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Tom McCain)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:45:12 GMT
Organization: Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN

mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy) writes:

: Most of the above factor's are irrelevant, my biggest
: complaint is how they handled me, their attitude was "You are
: having a problem with a ALPINE? Are you sure?? Our products
: never break!"...  Yea... Right... Get a clue!

By the sound of your attitude (as usual), I'm sure their attituded was
justified....  Go buy a Craig, it will be cheap and you'll be
happy!
--

Tom McCain 
tom@ecn.purdue.edu