From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: FAQ.recipes v2.0  (part 4/13)
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:24:39 CDT



#Subject: Sourdough Recipe Compilation, v2.0


200	SOURDOUGH RYE BREADS


201---------------------------------------------------------------------201
# From dadams@cray.com

		David's Wheat and Rye Bread.
 
I will pick up the recipe assuming you start with 4 cups of culture
from the first proof of the Russian starter.  (Since all the
recipies begin the same way.)  I doubled the recipe; the one I
modified this from started with 2 cups of culture.
 
 
		Ingredients
 
		4 cups culture from the first proof
		2 tablespoons dark molasses (I have skiped the molasses)
		2 tablespoons honey (I have skiped the honey)
		1 cup milk  (I have used water)
		2 teaspoons ground coriander
		2 teaspoons salt
		3-4 cups finely milled rye flour
		3-4 cups finely milled whole wheat flour
		(The total here should be between 7-8 cups.)
 
	Note:  The recipe I modified called for 2 cups rye 2 cups wheat
	and 3 cups white.  I use the K-TEC kitchen mill and mill my
	own flour from grain.  I have recommendations on buying grain
	if you are interested.  I can also pass on information about
	K-TEC.  ( K-TEC has a toll free number  1-800-748-5400.)
 
	Note 2:  The recipe I modified called for 4 tablespoons of
	vegetable oil.  I omited it and I liked the results.
 
Directions:
 
1.      Warm the milk to lukewarm
2.      Add Milk, molasses, honey, salt and coriander to the culture
	in a large mixing bowl and mix briefly.
3.      Add most of the flour and mix well.  Add flour until too stiff
	to mix by hand.  Then turn onto a floured table and knead in
	the remaining flour until satiny.  (I knead about 15 min.)
4.      I have made loaves in regular bread pans and also laid loaves
	on a greased baking sheet.  If you use the baking sheet I think
	the loaf needs to be stiffer.  Proof at 85 deg F for 2 or 3
	hours.
5.      Bake at 350 deg. F. for about 40 minutes.  Cool on a wire rack.
6.      I find that the slicing properties improve after the bread has
	a chance to sit and gel for a day or two.  I slice the bread
	very thinly, about 3/16 of an inch thick.  The bread could
	be sliced thinner but my shaky hands can't manage it.





202---------------------------------------------------------------------202
#  From dadams@cray.com


I am not real sure that this is the same thing you tried but here
is a recipe I got with my sourdough start from "Sourdoughs International".



		Tanya's Peasant Black Bread

			Makes 1 loaf

		Uses the Russian sourdough culture
		available from "Sourdoughs International"
		(you get this recipe with the start)
		(Their phone is 208-382-4828.)

		   Sourdoughs International
		   PO Box 1440
		   Cascade, ID 83611.



This dark bread will rise beautifully in 2 1/2  hours with the
Russian starter and form a tantalizing moist loaf.


CULTURE PREPARATION

1.  Remove the Russian culture from the refigerator
2.  Add 1/2 cup of white flour and 1/2 cup warm water to the culture
	jar and mix briefly to form a thick batter.  The total mixture
	will be about 2 1/4 cups.  It need not be lump free.
3.  Proof at 85 deg. F. for about 3 hours until actively fermenting
	(as shown by bubbles on the surface).

THE FIRST PROOF

1.  Mix all of the active culture with 3 cups of white flour and 2 cups
	of warm water in a 4 quart mixing bowl.  It need not be lump free.
2.  Proof at 85 deg. F. for 6 hours.
3.  Return 1 cup of culture to the culture jar.  Add 1/3 cup of warm water.
	Stir briefly and proof at 85 deg. F. for one hour.  Then refrigerate
	immediately.

Note:  The first proof given here provides enough culture for two of the
	following recipes.

THE SECOND PROOF

			INGREDIENTS

			2 cups culture from the first proof
			2 tablespoons dark molasis
			2 tablespoons vegetable oil
			1/2 cup milk
			2 tablespoons sugar
			1 teaspoon ground coriander
			1 teaspoon salt
			1 cup rye flour
			1 cup whole wheat flour
			1 1/2 cups white flour


1.  Warm the milk
2.  Add molasses, oil, sugar, salt, and coriander to the warm milk and mix
	briefly.
3.  Add the rye flour and mix well.  Add the whole wheat flour and mix well.
	Add the white flour until too stiff to mix by hand.  Then turn onto
	a floured board and knead in the remaining flour until satiny.
4.  Form an oval loaf by flattening a ball to a 1 1/2 inch thick oval and
	folding once in half.  Pinch the seam together.
5.  Place on a greased baking sheet, seam side down and proof at 85 deg F.
	for 2 or 3 hours or until about double in bulk.
6.  Bake at 350 deg. F. for about 40 minutes.  Cool on a wire rack.

Note: I modified this recipe a bit based on my experience.  The original
called for baking at 375 deg. F. for 45 to 50 min.  It also called for
12 hours in the first proof.  I think this is just the general line
Dr. Wood's book gives for all of his cultures.  It is too long for the
Russian culture.


203-----------------------------------------------------------------------203
# From: Tom Molnar <molnar@utcs.utoronto.ca>

Note: the following recipe takes overnight.  Start the recipe the day
BEFORE you want to bake the bread.


>From Laurel's Kitchen Bread book:

-----------------------------
Manuel's Starter

1 grain (granule) yeast
1/2 teaspoon milk
1-1/2 cups whole rye (as fresh as possible)
1-1/2 cups water.

Combine above, should be consistency of pancake batter.  Store between
65F and 80F in a nonmetal container, covered.  Let stand 3 to 5 days,
stirring twice a day until it starts to smell like a sour should.  If
it smells real bad, then it got too warm, and you should start over.
After that, treat it like any other sour.



Roberta's Sourdough Rye

1/3 cup Manuel's starter
3/4 cup warm water
2 cups whole rye flour (as fresh as possible)
1/4 onion, separated into pieces.

Combine the flour, water and starter making a dough.  Push the
onion pieces into the dough.  Cover tightly, leave at room
temperature for 12 to 15 hours or more.

above mixture
4 teaspoons yeast  (this sounds excessive, but who am I to argue)
2/3 cup warm water
3-1/2 cups whole hard wheat flour (as fresh as possible)
2-1/2
1 tablespoon caraway seeds

1/3 cup warm water for kneading

Dissolve yeast in warm water, and combine with the rest of the ingredients.
Keep the 1/3 cup water separate for kneading.  The trick is in the kneading.
Knead for about 15 minutes, and during this time use the 1/3 cup water
to wet your hands -- don't add the water at once.  Knead for 15 to 20 minutes
or until the dough is soft or becomes unpleasantly sticky.

Put dough in a clean bowl (no oil), cover, and let rise once only at
80F.  This takes about 1-1/2 hours -- careful not to let it go over.
Use the finger poke test (it's ready when a wet finger poked into the dough
leaves a hole that no longer fills in).  Shape the loaves properly (hearth
or french style) and place on greased baking sheet sprinkled with cornmeal.
Let rise again at 80-90F (30-45 mins) but keep an eye out not to let
it go too far.  It's ready when a depression left by a finger (not a hole!)
fills in slowly.

Slash the loaves well and place in a oven pre-heated to 450 F. Use a steam
technique for 10 mins, then reduce heat to 325F and bake for 40 - 50 mins 
until done (remove the pan of water after first 10 mins).

For the steam technique, I put 1 cup of boiling water in a metal pan on
the bottom of the oven, and in addition, sprayed the loaves with water
4 times (once when I put the loaves in and then every 3 minutes).

I got a nice crust as a result.

204-----------------------------------------------------------------------204
# From: Julie A. Kangas <kangas@aero.org>

Well, as I mentioned last week, I spent this weekend baking bread with
the Russian culture. All I have to say is WOW, is this stuff agressive.
After a few hours it had invaded my kitchen and set up a puppet 
government ;-).  Seriously, it was a very strong bubbler and had no
trouble with some very heavy (and probably not kneaded enough) dough.

I made three kinds of bread; the black bread from Sourdough International,
a finnish sour rye (adapted from "The Finnish Cookbook" by Beatrice
Ojakangas), and "Dark Rye Bread Borodinskii" (adapted from "The Art
of Russian Cuisine" by Anne Volokh).  Both the Finnish sour rye
and the Borodinskii bread use the rye sour (milk and rye left to get
very sour) for flavoring and some commercial yeast for leavening.  I
modified these recipes to use the Russian culture, so any yuckiness
is my fault.

I made the black bread and borodinskii bread on Saturday.  My culture
did quite well but it was perhaps not as sour as I would have liked.
This could be due to the sweetness of the breads though.  (The borodinskii
bread is even sweeter than the black bread but has a very hearty
rye taste.  It is darker than the "black bread").  However, the next
day I made the Finnish rye bread and it was quite a bit stronger.
(The proofing times were the same each day) It had a very nice sour 
(but not stomach turning) smell and taste. (This is not a sweet bread 
though).  I'm very happy how this turned out (the other breads are 
yummy too).  Perhaps a culture gets stronger after a few uses.

I've included recipes below, but first a few words about them.  The
Finnish rye uses a rye based sour so I cut down the amount of 
white flour (since it's in the russian culture) and slightly increased
the rye.  It seems to be the same as when I made it before (except
for the culture which is better).  

The borodinskii bread also used a rye starter.  It called for a cup of 
white flour which I deleted (again, the russian culture is based on 
white flour).  The rest of the flour is dark rye.  There is also a 
recipe for an all-dark rye bread (including starter) in the book.
I haven't tried it yet.

Here are the recipes which are cryptic if you haven't made bread
before:


204b--------------------------------------------------------------------204b
Finnish Sour Rye

4 cups starter from first proof
1/4 cup warm water
2 tsp salt
4 cups rye flour
1 1/2 - 2 cups white flour

Mix starter, water, salt and rye.  Add white flour to form a stiff dough.
Knead until smooth.  Divide dough in half.  For western Finland style loaves,
shape into balls and flatten until 1 inch in height and 8-10 inches in
diameter.  Make a hole about 2 inches in diameter in the center.  For
eastern Finland style loaves, form two rounded loaves.  Prick loaves with
fork and let rise about 2 hours.  Bake at 375 for 45 min.

205----------------------------------------------------------------------205
Dark Rye Bread Borodinskii

2 cups starter from first proof
1/3 cup warm water
1 1/3 tbsp shortening
1/4 cup dark malt syrup
1 tbsp corn syrup
3/4 tsp salt
2 1/2 tbsp sugar 
3/4 tsp ground coriander
4 1/2 - 5 cups dark rye flour  (1)

Mix all ingredients and knead for 30 minutes (2).  Shape dough into a 
ball and let rise about 2 hours.  Bush loaf with water and sprinkle with
more ground coriander.  Place a pan of water into pre-heated (don't you
hate it when they tell you to pre-heat oven halfway through the
procedure?) 425 degree oven.  Bake for 5 min and remove pan.  Continue
baking for 1 1/4 hours (3) at 375.

Mix 1/2 tsp potato starch with 2 tbsp water and brush on warm loaf.

A Few Confessions:

(1) I didn't have dark rye flour.  Medium rye seemed to work but...
(2) I confess, I didn't knead this long.  You may need to adjust the
    amount of flour used if you knead longer or use the darker rye.
(3) I think this is too long.  I took my bread out earlier.
----------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm very happy with my culture.  I didn't notice any sort
of nasty slimy smell that David mentions about his russian culture.
Mind just had a very honest, sour, alcholic smell. Mmmmmmm.  I let my
first proof go for 8 hours and I think it could go longer without 
making the bread inedible.

Julie

206-----------------------------------------------------------------------206 
# From: Seismo Malm <Seismo.Malm@palikka.jyu.fi>

I have been reading sourdough archives now for a couple of days.
I hadn't realiced that you can make sourdough bread from wheat too.
We here in Finland make sourdough only from rye. Finnish rye sourdough
bread is somewhat more sour than russian and baked for a longer
period. In some parts of Finland they make sweetish sourdough bread
too. 

I have been baking sourdough bread now for about 15 years and I have
always used the same recipe that my grandma used. My grandma was
partially paralysed for her last 25 years, so the original culture was
lost, but I have generated sourdough cultures from skimmed milk+rye
flour mixture (There is always lactobasilli in flour) and from viili
(a Finnish soured milk product)

Generally cultures from viili make a very active and very sour
cultures and they start making good bread in about month. Skimmed milk
+ rye flour cultures produce milder flavour but they have taken about
half a year to produce cood bread.

Sourdough bread from wheat was quite nice and I plan to make it 
regularly, perhaps every two weeks or something like that.

If you are interested about soured milk products, I could send you
a culture for it. It is more firmer than youghurt and not as sour.
Especially kids like it.


      
    There is my receipe for sourdough rye bread.


    100 g sourdough starter

    2     liter water

          salt

          rye flour

 

    1. Mix starter and lukewarm water. Add rye flour until it can

       support a wooden spoon upright for a some time.

    2. Add little flour every 12 hours.

    3. I sour it for about 3 days. It foams very much, but the level

       of foaming is subsiding at this point.

    4. I freece 2/3 of the dough for later use.
 
    5. Add flour until dough is easy to form.I add the salt at this 

       point too. I use 2 teespoonfuls for 1/3 of dough.
 
    6. Knead.

    7. Form the dough into a bread shape.
 
    8. Let rise until the size is about double.

    9. Bake until done. I use about 200 C for about 2 hours.

 
My proofing temperature is quite low so this is reason for a long time.
Besides, I like very sour sourdough myself. Added bonus is that the
bread will keep for a long time.
 
207-----------------------------------------------------------------------207 
#From ??
------------- Recipe Extracted from Meal-Master (tm) Database --------------
 
     Title: Sourdough Pumpernickle
Categories: Breads     
  Servings: 10

  1 1/2 c  Active Sourdough Starter            2 T  Caraway Seeds, Chopped  
      2 c  Unsifted Rye Flour                1/2 c  Boiling Black Coffee  
    1/2 c  Molasses                          1/4 c  Dry Skim Milk  
      2 t  Salt                                3 T  Melted Shortening  
    1/2 c  Whole Milk                      2 3/4 c  Unbleached Flour  
      1 pk Active Dry Yeast              
 
  Pour boiling coffee over chopped caraway seeds.  Let the mixture cool and
  then add it to the rye flour and starter which have previously been mixed
  well.  Let stand for 4 to 8 hours in a warm place, preferabley overnight.
  Then add the molasses, dry milk, salt, shortening,liquid milk, unbleached
  flour and yeast.  Mix well.  Cover the bowl and let rise to double.  Then
  knead on floured board and shape into two round loaves on baking sheet.
  Let rise until double again and bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes or until
  done.
 
208-----------------------------------------------------------------------208 
# 	From Randy Hayman
	sxrmh1@orca.alaska.edu
	TEL: (907) 474-6331
	ADDR: UACN - U of AK <SXRMH1@AM@ORCA>

Sourdough Caraway Rye Bread:

The (+/-) below means just that, more or less depending the feel of the dough,
the desired result(s), and your experimentation comfort level.

3 C sourdough starter sponge
1 1/2 C warm water (+/- depending upon the consistency of your sponge)             
4 1/2 C (+/-) all purpose flour
2 C rye flour
2 tsp salt
2-4 Tbsp (+/-) caraway seeds
1 Tbsp (+/-) poppy seeds
2 Tbsp real butter
1 Tbsp granulated sugar

cornmeal
1 egg lightly beaten with 1 Tbsp water

  The day before making the bread add 2 cups flour and 1 1/4 cups warm water
to 1 cup of saved sourdough starter in a glass/pyrex/ceramic bowl.  Cover 
with plastic wrap, or lid and let stand at room temperature until the next day.
  Day 2, stir down the sourdough sponge and save off all but 1- 1 1/2 cups of
the starter, for next time.  Add the remaining sponge (about 3 cups) to a
mixing bowl and add the water, flours, salt, seeds, butter, and sugar.  Mix
well, and start kneading when mixing gets too difficult (if you start mixing
with your hands, there is not really a transition at this point).  Knead in
additional all purpose flour as needed to form your proper consistency dough.
  Let the dough rest for a bit (about 10 minutes), while you butter a bowl,
etc...
  Now, butter the ball of dough and place in the buttered bowl.  Cover and let
rise until doubled in bulk.  (The buttering of the bowl and the dough is not
absolutely necessary, if you have a container in which to place the dough so
that it doesn't start to dry out.)
  When the dough has doubled in bulk, punch it down and knead it with as
little flour as you can get away with.  Divide the dough in half.  Shape each
half into round, oblong, long, vienna, etc... loaves as strikes your fancy. 
  Place the loaves on peels sprinkled with cornmeal.
  If you don't have peels, place the loaves on bake stones sprinkled with
cornmeal.  
  Cover and let rise until they look right (about doubled in bulk). 
  Preheat oven to 375 with a pan of water on the bottom of the oven (those of
you with electric ovens, try placing the pan of water on the shelf as close to
the element as you can, we want the water to become steam during the baking
process)
  Brush with egg wash just prior to placing in the oven.
  If you have peels, preheat your bake stones in your preheating oven.  Then
just slide the loaves onto the bake stone (just seconds after sprinkling the
bake stones with cornmeal)
  Bake at 375 for 30 minutes or until done.  (done may be a certain brown 
color, or when you rap the loaf with your knuckle, it sounds hollow)  Cool 
covered with towels if you prefer to keep the crust soft.


Randy
sxrmh1@orca.alaska.edu

209-----------------------------------------------------------------------209 
#	From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)

	From _The Art of Russian Cuisine_ by Anne Volokh.


Moscow-Style Dark Rye Bread
Starter:
1 tbsp active starter
2 1/2 cups warm water
2 cups dark rye flour

Mix ingredients and let proof at a LOW temperature for about 12 hours
(this low temperature is VERY important if you're using the russian
culture as it can often smell like vomit when it's fed whole grains)

Bread:
All the starter
3 1/4 cup dark rye flour
1 tbsp shortening (oil is easier)
6 1/2 tbsp dark malt syrup
1/4 tsp corn syrup
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp caraway (optional)

Ok.  This takes work.  You knead, knead, knead,.....  It also acts
like the monster that wants to eat the world's supply of rye flour.
Knead at least 30 minutes if you're kneading vigorously.  More
if not.  Shape into a slightly flattened ball.

Be prepared.  This won't rise a whole lot.

Place a pan of water in the bottom of an oven heated to 425.  Bake 
bread for 5 min then reduce heat to 375 and bake another 1 1/4 hours.
Age bread 6 hours before eating.


Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"

210-----------------------------------------------------------------------210
<Editors note:  Any takers on converting this to a sourdough recipe?>

#	From zola@hardy.u.washington.edu (Queen of the Netherlands)

**Russian Black Bread**

Try this bread warm from the oven, thickly buttered and 
topped with thin slices of sweet red onion.

Makes 2 1-pound loaves
--
4 cups rye flour
2 cups whole bran cereal
2 envelopes dry yeast
2 tablespoons caraway seeds, crushed
2 teaspoons instant coffee
2 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon sugar
1/2 teaspoon fennel seeds, crushed

2 1/2 cups water
1/4 cup (1/2 stick) butter
1/4 cup white vinegar
1/4 cup dark molasses
1 ounce (1 square) unsweetened chocolate
2 1/2 to 3 cups unbleached all purpose flour

1/2 cup water
1 teaspoon cornstarch
--

Lightly grease large bowl and 2 8-inch layer cake pans.  Set aside.

Combine first 8 ingredients in mixing bowl. Combine 2 1/2 cups water,
butter, vinegar, molasses, and chocolate in 2-quart saucepan.  Place
over medium heat and cook, stirring frequently, until chocolate is 
almost melted but mixture is still lukewarm.  Turn into mixing bowl
and begin beating.  Gradually add flour, 1/2 cup at a time, to make
a soft dough, and beat about 3 minutes.  

Turn dough onto lightly floured board.  Cover with bowl and allow dough
to rest 10 to 15 minutes.  Knead dough until smooth and elastic, about
10 to 15 minutes, adding additional flour as needed.  Place in greased
bowl, turning to coat entire surface.  Cover with plastic wrap and hot,
damp towel and leave in warm place until doubled in volume.

Punch dough down and turn onto lightly floured board.  Shape into two
balls and place in prepared pans.  Cover with plastic wrap and leave 
in warm place until doubled.

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.  Bake breads 40 minutes.  Combine water
and cornstarch in saucepan and bring to boil over high heat; boil one
minute (1 minute).  Brush lightly over bread and return bread to oven
for about 5 minutes, or until tops are glazed and loaves sound hollow
when tapped.  Remove from pans and allow to cool on racks.



211----------------------------------------------------------------------211
# From feldstei@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (ronald f. feldstein)

                   Notes on Russian Sourdough Bread

I.  Sourness of Russian cultures and the ratio of rye:wheat flour.

I would like to comment on certain things that have been said about
Russian sourdough bread and cultures.  My knowledge of this has mainly
come from reading such books as  the technical manual Bread Production
(Khlebopekarnoe proizvodstvo.  Kiev, 1966), by I. Royter, as well as
several years of practical experience as a hobby.

I.  Many people comment on the fact that the Russian sourdough culture
is very sour.  This is not by accident.  The general rule of Russian
breadbaking is that dough from wheat flour is not supposed to be sour,
while dough from rye flour is supposed to be very sour.  Thus, Russian
bread manuals are divided into two basic sections:  wheat flour dough
and rye flour dough.  When rye flour constitutes over 50% of the total,
it counts as rye flour.  Wheat flour dough is, therefore, leavened by
using regular commercial yeast or yeast sponges.  Rye flour dough inev-
itably is made with the use of a sour, which can be boosted by yeast if
it is too weak.  The lactic acid in rye dough is not considered to be
necessary only for its flavor.  As Royter notes: (p. 62)
     Rye bread is supposed to contain much more acid than is wheat
     bread.  This is essential not only for giving flavor, but to halt
     the activity of ferments, which are high in number in rye flour,
     and to improve the physical properties of the rye dough and bread. 
     The use of sours is also facilitated by the fact that lactic acid
     bacteria are the ones that mainly develop in rye dough.  The lac-
     tic acid which is formed in this process gives a pleasant taste to
     the bread; even when it occurs in large quantities (15-18 degrees
     N) it is well tolerated by the yeast cells.

Therefore, in Russian bread the amount of sourness is roughly propor-
tional to the quantity of rye flour.  A chart on pp. 108-110 of the
above mentioned book makes this clear.  Here are some ratios of rye and
wheat flour and the suggested acid level (in N degrees):

     Name                  Rye:Wheat            Degrees of Acid
Plain Whole Rye              100:0                   12
Borodino                     85:15                   10

Ukrainian types:             50:50                    9
                             20:80                    7.5

The conclusion to be drawn is that a full rise with a real Russian
culture will produce a sour bread, which would only be considered tasty
and normal in the case of a high percentage of rye dough.

II. A sample recipe for Borodino bread.

The following general recipe has worked well for me.  It is based on
the booklet Household Bread (Domashnii khleb.  Moscow: 1991).  The
amounts are approximate.  It is assumed that an active sour starter is
ready.

1.  Put 2 cups of whole rye flour (finely ground is easier to knead) in
a mixing bowl and pour 20 ounces of nearly boiling water over the
flour.  Add 1 teaspoon of ground coriander seed and 4 tablespoons of
malt syrup.  Mix thoroughly and let cool to around 85 degrees F.

2.  When the mixture is at 85 deg., add 1/2 cup of the sourdough start-
er.  If the starter is too weak to raise the dough, you could add com-
mercial yeast also at this point.  Let this mixture sit for 10-12 hours
at around 85 degrees F.

3.  Add 2 teaspoons of salt to the mixture and mix well.  Add 1 cup of
whole wheat flour and mix.  Continue to add rye flour (around 3-4 cups)
until it can be kneaded without too much sticking.  Sprinkling the
surface with cold water or a little vegetable oil helps hasten this
process.  Shape and smooth loaves, using water. (I get 2 small loaves
out of this quantity.)

4.  Proof the shaped loaves around 1 1/2 - 2 hrs., or until it doesn't
rise anymore.

5.  Bake at around 325 deg. F. for 2 hours.

 






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