HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rally round the FAG and sing a GLAD song
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:00:56 GMT

In article <TIM.93Jan21070833@ear-ache.mit.edu>, tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:
> In article <18436@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>    I have attempted to point out the solid foundation of Libertarianisms
>    ethical - social - and political *principles* many times, and have 
>    been met with fears and inuendo time after time.
 
> Both social democracy and libertarianism are religions.  Both have
> foundations that any individual, given the right frame of mind and
> historical setting, might find consistent with reality as she or he
> has experienced it.  Neither foundation is any more solid than the
> that of any particular religion.

I don't mean to imply that  other political paradigms don't have 
their own foundation, my statement was inclusive of Libertarianism
and the principles upon which it rests alone.

>    this brings me to "owens theory of queer".
>    I am an elitist. I think that I am really quite something.
>    I am creative, I am bright, I am witty, I am a great cocksucker,
>    and I'm proud of every bit of it.
>    <...>
>    I think that queer sexuality is creative sexuality, and that
>    creative people live more life in a day than their duller peers do
>    in years. I think the dull people get jealous.
>    I wouldn't trade with them for anything.
 
> You've talked elsewhere about how hard it is to get people out of the
> closet.  There are hundreds of thousands of queer Jane and Joe Shmoes
> out there who I think you'd label dull.  They work as janitors or
> dieticians or meat packers or bus drivers.  They don't network
> electroncially; they don't use "network" as a verb.  They live lives of
> quiet desparation.  They are as queer as you or me.  

I understand, and I accept the criticism.

But I still believe what I believe.
as I said .. I *am an* elitist.

> They might even
> be better pussylickers or cocksuckers.  Yet your elitism might be 
> consistent with their world view that the only "out" people are the
> flamboyant, creative, artists types.  If the above excerpts reflect
> your theory of queer, how do you reconcile it with the lives of those
> people?  Can you dispose of them with such ease?

I allow others to own and define themselves, thats one of those principles
I was talking about. I don't need to reconcile my reality with everyone on
the planet, that is not disposing of them, thats a reflection of my reality.

my *theory of queer*, goes lots further than the little blurb I posted,
and probably would be more politically incorrect than would be tolerated
here. 

Lets just say that no matter what I may think, I have no desire to
legislate of otherwise force anyone else to think likewise.

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
From: ptb@meaddata.com (Patrick Bell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Date: 23 Jan 1993 07:06:28 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: echo.meaddata.com

In article <1993Jan22.122110.15961@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
|> In article <14016@optilink.COM> walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) writes:
|> >From article <C160FC.50v@fig.citib.com>, by glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson):
|> >> In article <1jhibuINNrs6@meaddata.meaddata.com>, ptb@meaddata.com (Patrick Bell) writes:
|> >
|> ># |> If you knew you were HIV- and you knew your sex partner (lover, fuck buddy,
|> ># |> tearoom trick, whatever) was HIV+ and he wanted you to suck his cock w/o
|> ># |> a condom, would you?
|> >
|> >> Yes.
|> >
|> >Well Greg, it sure has been nice knowing you!
|> 
|> Expected response #2. Still waiting for three more on my list. I hope
|> Patrick Bell is pleased with the teeth-grinding that such a seemingly
|> innocuous and wholly irresponsible question might produce.

I thought it was a fair rhetorical question that accurately reflected
a real life sexual situation that occurs.  It was never my intent to
scare people. 

Let's not let this degenerate into a flame war.

|> I'm also beginning to wonder about the truth of what they say about
|> optilink.

Huh?

-- 
Patrick Bell           |         All viewpoints          |        (513) 865-7343
Mead Data Central, Inc.|       expressed are mine        |      ptb@meaddata.com
P.O. Box 933           |       and not that of my        |...!uunet!meaddata!ptb
Dayton, OH 45401       |      employer.  So there!       |
Xref: sparky soc.motss:57726 rec.music.cd:9062 rec.music.misc:30726
From: olsenc@stein2.u.washington.edu (Clint Olsen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Looking for YAZZ "Wanted" CD or tape
Date: 21 Jan 1993 09:16:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein2.u.washington.edu

I believe that Yaz (with one "z") is a group that consisted of a guy
from Depeche Mode and Alisson Moyet (sp?).

Their most popular disc was "Upstairs At Erics".  I think they have another
called "You And Me Both".

This Yazz group is really confusing because of the similar sounding names,
but I don't know what the heck they sing.

-Clint
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: G&L MILITARY BAN: Call the White House NOW!
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:56:14 GMT



LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA) writes...
  >>Would congressional legislation be able to override an executive
  >>order by Clinton?  Or would an executive order by Clinton be able
  >>to override congressional legislation?  Anybody know?
 
viejones@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael A. Jones) answers:
 >Congress prevails and could pass a law overriding an executive order
 >issued by Clinton.

A comment in the NY Times today suggested, however, that Congress
wouldn't override Clinton's veto of such legislation.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Straight spouses on ABC's 20/20
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:11:52 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab24.larc.nasa.gov

In article <C16Fro.7Fw@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
|> Jim Hubbs (jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu) wrote:
|> > mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
|> > 
|> > >It doesn't alter the situation that
|> > >your ex-wife found herself in though; it's not as if she brought
|> > >this upon herself.
|> > No I certainly don't believe she brought this on herself, it is
|> > a more complex issue than that.  An odd fact is the disproportionately
|> > high number of women this happens to more than once, though.
|> > 
|> Interesting!  One of my ex-wife's old boyfriends (they nearly got
|> married, years before she and I did) lives in my town, and came 
|> out a couple years before I did.
|> 

I don't think this is particularly odd.  I happen to be attracted to
sensitivity and creativity.  And, I spend most of my free time involved
with music or theatre groups.  'Not too suprising that I've fallen for 
quite a few gay men in my time...  I have been fortunate in that the ones
I've fallen for have been nice enough to set me straight pretty early in
the friendship, but I can see situations like the above happening easily
enough.
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) *       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Organization: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:28:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.060407.10785@fuug.fi> an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:

>Specifically, what I'm looking for are songs which contain lyrics that are
>obviously MOTSS-oriented.

well, Sophie B. Hawkins has two songs on her album.  "Damn, wish I was
Your Lover"  says, "I lay by the ocean making love to her,"  and "We are
one body" is quoted in my .sig.

season


-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From:  orc@sybase.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Reply-To: ss19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Ambiguity
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:45:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.222526.3299@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Well, if it's ice cream flavored with coffee that one wants,
>by all means have it.  I like it too.
>
>But coffee is hot and contains neither cream nor sugar.
>Anything else is something else.


  Hmm.  Would it be very bad taste to point out that some of us, when
confronted by a cup of nice Jamaica Blue Mountain, will immediately
lunge for the cream and sugar?

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ why, yes, I *am* a pervert.
                  \/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Any word on military ban yet?
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:20:56 GMT


Today's (1/26/93) New York Times has Clinton's meeting with
Aspin and the Joint Chiefs of Staff as its lead story.  They
never quite got around to stuff like Iraq and Somalia and
Bosnia -- the G/L ban took up the whole 2-hour meeting.
Clinton apparently said that he would not reverse his
position on lifting the ban.  The story quotes Pentagon aides
describing the Joint Chiefs' position as "bordering on
insubordination."  Gen. Colin Powell's office reported that
they'd received 681 calls yesterday urging that the ban be
kept in place, and 21 for lifting it.

One interesting paragraph:

    If Mr. Clinton issues an executive order, Congress could
    pass a law codifying the existing Pentagon policy that
    bans homosexuals.  But the President could then veto the
    law, and it is unlikely that supporters of the ban would
    ultimately have enough votes to override a veto.

The Times also ran a story on the history of the G/L ban,
noting that restrictions were put in place only after World
War 2, in which thousands of gay men served and fought with
distinction.  The story noted that dismissals have declined
in recent years "as many commanders stopped spending dwindling
resources on tracking down homosexuals."

In its lead editorial, The Times asks, "Who's in Charge of the
Military?" and urges Clinton to be firm and issue the executive
order immediately.  It argues that delay will only allow the
military and Religious Right to harden their positions and
marshal their forces to fight the change.  The editorial
closes...

    ...experience has shown that the encrusted culture of the
    military changes most positively when it has forceful
    leadership.  That can come only from the very top.  This is
    a chance for Mr. Clinton to show that the anti-war student
    from Arkansas has the spine to be Commander in Chief.

New York Times columnist (and former executive editor) Abe
Rosenthal takes Gen. Colin Powell to task for his opposition
to lifting the ban, advising Powell that his career and
position in Army was made possible only by Harry Truman's
executive order integrating the military in 1948 in the face
of similar opposition and bigotry.  His piece closes...

    So I have an answer for a question General Powell raised
    last month at Amercian University -- what can he tell a
    heterosexual youngster who comes in and says that in his
    private accommodations he prefers to have heterosexuals
    around him, not gays?

    General, I would ask him if he had been molested.  If not,
    I would tell him exactly what an Army colonel commanding
    the R.O.T.C. wartime unit at City College suggested to me
    when I asked him some uppity question for the campus paper.

    "Boy," he said, "get the hell out of my office."
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Soc.motss Reorganization - VOTING BEGINS!
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:55:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.165125.19353@exu.ericsson.se> exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:

>From: jefu@jupiter.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
>
>soc.motss - mostly because of historical tradition, also because
>soc.gay wont appear to be women inclusive, and soc.lesbigay will
>invite bi postings which belong for the most part in soc.bi.

Do you mean "postings from bis," or "postings on specifically
bi-related topics?"  If the former, I don't understand why you don't
suggest that the women just take all their traffic to SAPPHO.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:38:23 GMT

dem@cs.princeton.edu (Doron Meyer) wrote: 
->What I'm asking is what things that worked and what you
->wished you had done when coming out to your best friends.

i started with my mouth; that worked best.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: White House E-mail address???  Re: Clinton Names White House E-Mail Director
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:33:28 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

>MJ writes
>>wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells) says:
>>>It would be fun  to E-mail the pres. don't you think?  Oh, and not to
>>>mention useful...
>Yes there is.  75300.3115@compuserve.com

Well...I just send E-mail to that address, and here's what I got back:

   Re: ? EMDNRM - Mail Delivery Failure. No room in mailbox. >EPX [75300,3115]
   Is this the place?

   Your message could not be delivered as addressed.

So, if it is "Bill's box," he'd better answer his mail SOON!  ;->


** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gays in the military (was:Re: Book Review "The Homosexaliti
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:53:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <PC.93Jan25145316@bacon.linus.mitre.org> <randall.728017145@seashore>
  <44049@zygot.ati.com>

... banning gays because of group characteristics is like banning
blacks because of a high crime rate ....

I never said criminality is racially determined, but for whatever
reasons, crime rates do vary, and obviously a high crime rate for one
race does not disqualify individuals from military service. I'm 
unsure about this one if for no other reason that the country is so
split, and the folks in charge are so overwhelmingly against it. I'd
keep on working on it until they're comfortable with the idea on
how it would work, since that's what happened with integration of 
minorities as well.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: Re: text of letter sent to Senator Sam Nunn
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:27:20 GMT

Very good letter, but...

I was watching CNN.  Sam Nunn got on the senate floor, opened his
mouth, and out spewed some of the most homophobic, crock-of-shit,
biggotted remarks that have ever been spoken in the US Senate.

A short summary is that Nunn thinks we might need segregated sleeping
and bathroom facilities for gays/lesbians and straights.  He didn't
say what would happen to bisexuals.

Scott Safier                                   corwin+@cmu.edu
Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon University
        
member, T.S.A.K.C.  S2/6 b g- l-(?) z n+ o+(+) x+(+) a-(-) u-  v j+ 
                    B0/1 h f+ w- g k+ s- m(+) e++

"We don't necessarily discriminate.  We simply exclude certain types of
people."
   Lt. Col. Gerald Wellman, an ROTC instructor at the MIT,
   on the military's ban on gays
   Newsweek, May 25
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: safe sex question
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:39:02 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>>>Boundless JOY! I've heard a thing or two about you...

>>you've obviously been hearing the wrong things.  :)

>No, I'd say I haven't...

>Come over. Wear low-rise pants. We'll talk.

An idea just cropped up.  I'll get out my separator and slave over a hot 
stove to whip something up for you; just give me a ring and I'll harness 
my energies to sling it together.  Are you fond of collard greens?

Omaha's bitterly cold in winter though...the safe word is that I may need 
to bring my chap-stick.
-- 
Brent Capps    (B4) htw-c++g+k++s-e++    | "I tried using UNIX once, 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)        |  but I felt as though 
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff)     |  I was 'bothering' it."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rs6421.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:24:14 GMT

jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:

>I got this information from Laura Arnold:

>State                 Senator                Phone        Fax
>--------------------------------------------------------------

>Alabama               Heflin                  4124
>                      Shelby                  5744        3416
Neat stuff, but what exactly are the first 3 digits in all these cases? 224,
I guess?
-- 
Ron Buckmire
Association To Save Madonna From Nuclear War [New York Chapter]
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: MOTSS-oriented music?
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:19:25 GMT
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:16:38 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58235 soc.bi:18993
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Re: Is Dan Quayle a Twinkie?
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:58:35 GMT

That's Mr. Unemployed Spongy Cream-Filled Snack Cake to you...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: latarra@camelot.bradley.edu (Lisa Ehren)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:30:36 GMT

I've only really tried the direct approach.  One I wrote in a letter <he's
in California> and said "I'm bisexual." and then asked him a bunch of
questions about how he felt aobut it and how he thought that our friends
would react - that was the "Andy letter" I posted last year.  Another one I
asked "What would you say if I told you I was bisexual?"  She said she'd
ask questions and didn't want me to hit on her <she was joking>, but since
I have a habit of asking oddball questions, she thought I was joking.  My
best friend I set up a time to go shopping and talk and told him outright.
All three worked great for me.  Since I haven't had any negative comments
yet, I don't know what to say *might not* be good.

Good luck, and congrats on finding the courage to do it.
--
He got up from the couch and stared out the window at a far-off place
inside himself that she couldn't see.

Fuzzies for anyone who wants them - New shipments every Thursday.
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sexual harassment from queers
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:47:24 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1993Jan27.150827.8740@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:


>People can act however the hell they want, but its insulting to queers
>and women and just plain stupid, to celebrate stereotypical masculine
>behavior as "straight acting", like your average male queer can't be
>masculine, only straight men can, so if you act masculine, you must
>be "straight acting". puke. and puke too to those straight acting fags
>who can't cope with a little non-butch behavior from their fellow
>gay men, and can't get how much they insult themselves and all of us
>with the term "straight-acting".

>Ry
>ry@usl.com

Well, yes, there is a wealth of really offensive vibes being spread around
by that term, but you also should consider that many people use that term to
express the fact that they don't act feminine merely because that's the term
people understand.  Is it any better to say "non-fem"?  No, because as you
said, that's implying that acting femmy is disgusting, and that's insulting
to women.

So what are we left with?  "Masculine?"  Please.  Who defines masculine,
anyway?

I liked your post for the simple reason that it alerts people who use this term
because it's the widely understood one to the inherent self-deprecation of
it.  But what's your alternative?  Personally, I act masculine when I feel
masculine, feminine when I feel feminine, and am done with it.  I don't
describe myself as "anything-acting" since it's not a concrete part of my
personality.  But then, I'm bi and used to duality.

So what term would you suggest we use?

Drewcifer
-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Van Damme
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:43:22 GMT

- (K) wrote: 
->I saw Van Damme's new movie over the weekend.  The plot really stunk but it
->
->was worth it to see J-C disrobed so frequently.
->I hope this is a trend....

are there other reasons one would go see a van damme movie?  it's not
like there's active plot, acting, or even talent ... 

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: Finally!!!
Organization: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:20:36 GMT

In article <53-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>well, my first political memory is of nixon resigning.  NO idea how old
>i was (that era of history is quite foggy in my brain) but i remember i
>had a babysitter that night, who couldn't explain what was happening.  i
>didn't find out what watergate was all about until sometime in the
>eighties...

that happened in the year i was born.

season

-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
Newsgroups: soc.motss