HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:50:29 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <3801@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>>Existing laws exist
>>to cover the crimes regardles of motivation, and they are easier to
>>get convictions for.

>Well of course, but by that time somebody's dead.

Are they? Criminal trespass and the like usually come long before murder.

As for Galileo, in the context of the time I'm sure they could establish
harm on some grounds or another. In many ways, the church was the glue
that held society together and he was attacking the church... or at least
the church could certainly make a good case that he was.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Har du kramat din varg idag?            'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.fan.john-palmer
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: "killfiles" (was Re: Hasan B Mutlu)
Date: 12 Sep 1992 23:19:52 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Dave Ratcliffe writes:
>> If a system does not support KILL files, change it or
>> drop it, but don't ask the rest of us (the overwhelming majority) to act as if

>Some people CAN'T "change it or drop it".  Your argument smacks of an
>elitist mentality and has been used on the net before.  Also, please

["CAN'T"?]

I see "killfiles" or something equivalent as _minimum_ basic technology
for satisfactory use of Usenet.  Somebody who doesn't have it or
doesn't know how to use it should, in my opinion, stop what they
are doing with Usenet immediately until they find some way to automatically 
get rid of articles they know they are not interested in or don't have
time to deal with, without being forced to read them all or manually
delete them.  Too much stuff, too little time.   I can't read every
book in the library, see every movie, or listen to every CD in
Tower records, either, wouldn't want to, it's not necessarily a comment
on the quality of these items but rather what I want & don't want to
do with my time.

 ...
>that uses them.  I AM defending those net-readers who may not have
>software supporting them and the assertion that they are somehow less

It's not like it's a lifetime handicap, is it, that they should need
this protection?   Inadequate software should be fixed or upgraded
or replaced, not put on the endangered species list.  [I guess I
have a vested interest in saying such things, but still.]

>Waffle for some time here.  Now I run Unix with Bnews (Vnews as a
>reader).  Still no kill file but a well used N key instead. 

Bummer dude :-)

Newsgroups: news.admin
From: sysjmk@sarah.albany.edu (Joe Kane)
Subject: followup problem
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: ny
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 15:58:40 GMT


  Whenever I post a follow-up message to an article in any of the 

news groups I get the message "permission denied" but the article does

appear to get Posted. Any suggestions as to the cause of the problem would

be appreciated. Please respond by e-mail.

                                            thanks

                                            joe kane

-- 
Joseph Kane				internet:  sysjmk@csc.albany.edu
State Univ of NY at Albany		(518) 442-3711
1400 Washington Ave
Albany,  NY 12222
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Mutlu violating Usenet RFC
Date: 11 Sep 1992 21:31:17 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Summary: there is one now

In article <18r1bdINN7og@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>The key word in that sentence is "format".  The address "mutlu@zuma.uucp"
>is in the correct format for an Internet email address, just as the
>sentence "The blind desk threw the hungry eye at me" is.  They have correct
>syntax, they just don't mean anything (assuming that you're correct that
>there is no zuma UUCP node).

We now know that there is indeed a zuma node and where it is
(uunet!anatolia!zuma).  I retract the earlier claim about its
existence.

However, apparently, actually sending any email in complaining
about Usenet posts from there will cause the sysadmins at anatolia
to try and sue you or arrest you.  And probably me, for conspiracy, if I read
the second message that was sent right.  Have fun.  (Isn't Usenet Great)


   -george william herbert
   gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com 
++ copyright 1992 george william herbert. All rights reserved.  Permission   ++
++ granted for Usenet transmission/use and followup/reply articles/mail use  ++
From: rbt@tous.oau.org (Robert B. Tate)
Subject: Re: usenet TOP 1000 sites
Organization: Tate Enterprises
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:58:27 GMT

In article <BuKI49.A9z@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>Did anyone this month receive a complete copy of the usenet TOP 1000 sites list?
>
>If so, would you please email it to me?
>
>-- 
>Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
>keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

Haven't you heard, the end of the net that everyone has been predicting
for so long has finely happend and there wasen't anyone in the top 1000
this month!

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ? 


-- 
 rbt@tous.OAU.ORG  (Robert B. Tate)       | A little knowledge is a dangerous
 {ucf-cs,peora,tarpit}!tous!rbt           | thing. Any less can kill you.
From: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org (Lars Soltau)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 06 Sep 92 15:37:03 GMT
Organization: United Federation of Planets
NNTP-Posting-Host: ncc1701.stgt.sub.org
In-reply-to: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of Mon, 31 Aug 92 04:24:03 GMT

>>>>> On Mon, 31 Aug 92 04:24:03 GMT, by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) said:

[...]
> And, of course, the coup-de-grace (SP!) is various forged posts, back
> from the days where he was posting (faking) thru hbm@sarp.aic.com (he
> lost his account at work for that I believe), to the days where he was
> flooding the net thru the anonymous posting service at Berkeley, to the
> days where he screwed up and posted his message twice or thrice thru
> Berkeley, to the days where he had OTHERS flood the net in his name thru
> Berkeley, to the days of "XYZ the Criminal of ABC", "XYZ the Terrorist
> of ABC", etc.

You seem to be quite fascinated with this Mutlu phenomenon to follow its
development so carefully.

What problem do *you* personally have with these posts? Why can't you just
ignore them, i.e. arrange for your computer to ignore them for you?

When Mutlu began flooding soc.culture.you-name-it, I put him in my global kill
file and forgot about him. Only now when talk of cancelling him and banning
him begins to rise am I alerted to the fact that he is still around. Why do
you invest so much time and effort to get him off the net? Wouldn't it be much
easier for you to give it a rest and just ignore him as long as he doesn't
email-bomb you or something *really* damaging?
--
Lars Soltau	bang: <insert ridiculously long path>	    BIX: -- no bucks --
		smart: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org

     Germany, Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, where dreams come true: Heaven is 911!

I mean, do we call lack of belief in a Holy Banana abananism and
say that various evil is justified by abananism?
			-- David Choweller on alt.atheism
From: cza@troy.uucp (C. Akgun)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.admin.policy,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Herbert violating US Constitution.
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:09:17 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Navesink, NJ

In article <195ftaINN2cj@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:
>Wanted: civil attorney located in Minnesota, experienced in plaintiff's
>	side of libel cases.
>
>	Bonuses would include familiarity with electronic media and law,
>willingness to take case on percentage of recovery basis, and being an
>ethnic armenian.
>
>	email replies to gwh@soda.berkeley.edu or gwh@lurnix.com please.
>
>	Thanks
>
>
>   -george william herbert
>   gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com 
>

That is about time to stop "crying wolf" on how zuma is connected to 
the network and start look into how to settle your problem legally on 
this.  You can joke all you want but your dispute on this case (although
others are repeatedly informing you about your lack of knowledge on 
how things really work in the network) seems to get serious.

C. Akgun
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:16:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.184706.1950@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

> Personally, if he is posting news and not screwing up the flow of it,
> he's fine by me. IF I get wind of the fact that he is being denied
> news access simply because he's posted lots of articles...I will grant
> him access.

The difference is that he is currently posting massive numbers of articles 
to news.admin that *obviously* belong in the soc.culture heirarchy. 
This makes it hard for those of us who use this group for Usenet
administration to find the relevant messages.   Furthermore, he is not doing 
so to promote the free exchange of ideas.  Replies to Hasan B. Mutlu *always*
bounce, and the posting node in the Path: is *always* unreachable.  
Furthermore, the posting node and user name are varied from time to time, 
apparently to frustrate KILL files.

In short, Mr. Mutlu's net conduct is directly analogous to someone abusing 
CB channel by playing a stereo over it 24 hours a day.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat
From: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org (Lars Soltau)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 06 Sep 92 15:25:45 GMT
Organization: United Federation of Planets
	<1992Aug31.165155.15517@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
	<1992Aug31.183811.11970@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ncc1701.stgt.sub.org
In-reply-to: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com's message of 31 Aug 92 18:38:11 GMT

>>>>> On 31 Aug 92 18:38:11 GMT, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) said:

>>Users like Mutlu can be dealt with in a variety of means, all of which have
>>been in evidence on the net. First and foremost among them is the KILL file,

> Not always; I read and send lots of news thru a public access site or two, 
> and they run WAFFLE, or Whatever, which does not support kill files; in
> other cases kill files exist but users don't know about them. 

I don't think we should reduce the technical standard of Usenet to the lowest
common denominator, some Foobar Usenet system developed by someone on the
Sinclair ZX81, do you? If a system does not support KILL files, change it or
drop it, but don't ask the rest of us (the overwhelming majority) to act as if
they didn't exist.

As for the newbie not knowing about KILL files, again I cannot agree that we
should drop all the goodies a rookie does not know about. Rookies generally
don't know about cross posting, are you suggesting we don't use cross posting
in the future?

The only reason I can see for action on this matter is that not every site can
bear the flood of posts for example in soc.culture.europe, while they do want
to get the interesting (i.e. not Mutlu) posts. Since there is as yet no news
system that supports killing *before* batching/transfering, Mutlu's posts are
a real problem for these people. Nevertheless, the idea of banning someone
from the net because his posts are unwanted leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
--
Lars Soltau	bang: <insert ridiculously long path>	    BIX: -- no bucks --
		smart: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org

     Germany, Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, where dreams come true: Heaven is 911!

I mean, do we call lack of belief in a Holy Banana abananism and
say that various evil is justified by abananism?
			-- David Choweller on alt.atheism
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:56:37 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <LY0JXE6@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <3781@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>>One might suggest that part of your government has already crossed
>>that threshold, vis the forfeiture laws, Alvarez-Machain and
>>the new FBI wiretap bill etcetera.

>And how would controlling speech have helped avoid this sort of thing? The
>most dangerous speech is that sanctioned by the government.

And what makes you think I was implying anything of the sort?
You omitted the context:

|Carl wrote:
||I wrote:
||>Part of the problem with your argument is that by the time that
||>violence is being used, it may be too late to do anything about
||>it.  Ie: if the army has been converted.

||Are you claiming that this happened or only that it is possible?
||Do you think it is likely to happen in your nation or mine?

I was merely answering the question about "converted", or perhaps, a
better choice would be "perverted".  Forfeiture laws and Dr. A-M certainly
indicates to me that your Constitution has been subverted by your
Supreme Court.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: news.admin,soc.culture.turkish
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Mutlu violating Usenet RFC
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:39:13 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <18r375INN3gp@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:


+>We now know that there is indeed a zuma node and where it is
+>(uunet!anatolia!zuma).  I retract the earlier claim about its
+>existence.

	I still doubt that it really exists.



+>However, apparently, actually sending any email in complaining
+>about Usenet posts from there will cause the sysadmins at anatolia
+>to try and sue you or arrest you.  And probably me, for conspiracy, if I read
+>the second message that was sent right.  Have fun.  (Isn't Usenet Great)

	I checked who the sysadmin of "anatolia" was and not at all shocked
to find out that it was one Ahmet Cosar.

	This is of course the same Ahmet Cosar who has posted as Multu in
the past. 

	The "real" Multu may have been posting once long ago, but I suspect
that "Multu" or "Agric" has been in reality Ahmet Cosar for a very long time.

	The reason for "zuma" is the same reason that Cosar refuses to use
his own name when posting his anti-ethnic material.  Now Cosar, the "honest"
admin of anatolia can pretend that he is just fowarding materials from "zuma"

	The zuma path means all mail sent to "Agric"/"Multu" bounces and 
does not I suspect end up at anatolia.




Newsgroups: news.admin
From: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: re: he's baaaaack
Date: 7 Sep 1992 21:11:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


zaphiri@zoro.cis.temple.edu (Zaphiris Christidis)

> While testing the newsfeed at zoro.cis.temple.edu, I came across the following
> test-article:
> 
> # From cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!..!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system 
> # Article 22108 of alt.test:
> # Path: cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!..!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system
> # >From: system@zuma.uucp (SYSTEM 0PERATOR)
> # Newsgroups: alt.test
> # Subject: testing
> # Message-ID: <eT6mqB1w164w@zuma.uucp>
> # Date: 5 Sep 92 18:42:25 GMT
> #
> # news feed
> 
> 1) The "path:" is very interesting!!!. "!uunet!anatolia!zuma!system". 

"Scary" would be a better world; But we can all see that "Turkiye Elektronik
Haber" is dream-teaming the Usenet world; no more wimpy feeds from places in
the midwest or upper midwest (:-). Either we get the best or we don't.

> 2) Does "zuma" exist in the UUCP tables?

Probably not; anatolia does not exist either. Like they expect mail or something?

> 3) We all know who is using "anatolia". It seems it is feeding off uunet now.

A scarier question; Feeding off Michigan.com (RIP) cost a few dollars a
month, maybe, say, 20, 30. Something that a poor grad student in the
upper midwest can afford.  How the <expletive deleted> can
what's'his'name afford a feed off UUNET? I know  COMPANIES who have
balked at the cost. 

So, anatolia boys (cosar, mutley, mystik, et al), who's bankrolling ya? 

> 4) For those who think that 'argic' has gone on a labor day pic-nic, think
>    again. 'argic' is labouring to use real news-feed this time.

Calm down, folks. I remember uunet's previous life, seismo.css.gov. UUnet has
always been cool and I doubt they'd tolerate the stuff anadolu/zuma (what the
HELL does zuma mean?) got away with in the past...

> 5) Don't let the uid of "SYSTEM 0PERATOR" fool you.

Actually based on the postings of the ranks in the posting house (now renamed)
SYSTEM OPERATOR is a rather low rank (reboots zuma 5 times a day, ...)

> 6) He is baaaa-aaaack!!

'Bout 'ing Time. I was REALLY getting bored....

Commentary (slipping in Andy Rooney attire): Folks, how much more of these are
we going to see? Here we have grownups spending BIG MONEY (we're not talking
$20 a month now, make that $200+) to post their stuff. Who is really behind
this? 

I just don't get it... Either that or the University of Minnie Mouse is really
paying well... 

Spiros
(not really in cleveland; if you don't know my address you should'nt reply anyway)
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: "killfiles" (was Re: Hasan B Mutlu)
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:30:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep14.013043.23959
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:

>Dave Ratcliffe writes:
>>> If a system does not support KILL files, change it or
>>> drop it, but don't ask the rest of us (the overwhelming majority) to act as if

>>Some people CAN'T "change it or drop it".  Your argument smacks of an
>>elitist mentality and has been used on the net before.  Also, please

>["CAN'T"?]

>I see "killfiles" or something equivalent as _minimum_ basic technology
>for satisfactory use of Usenet.  Somebody who doesn't have it or
>doesn't know how to use it should, in my opinion, stop what they
>are doing with Usenet immediately until they find some way to automatically 
>get rid of articles they know they are not interested in or don't have
>time to deal with, without being forced to read them all or manually
>delete them.  Too much stuff, too little time.   I can't read every
>book in the library, see every movie, or listen to every CD in
>Tower records, either, wouldn't want to, it's not necessarily a comment
>on the quality of these items but rather what I want & don't want to
>do with my time.

For what it's worth, anybody using software that produces Fidonet style
*.Msg files can get a program to do everything a killfile does. So that
(mostly) takes care of the PC sites.
-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
From: iiitac@PYR.SWAN.AC.UK (Alan Cox)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: mutlu
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:04:13 GMT


I've just stopped my nntp driver bothering to ask for any articles that
look like they have a zuma header on them. Maybe some of the backbone
sites should just filter him out, although this might be a slightly
disturbing precedent.

Alan
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:39:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23642
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

It would appear that at this time, all Ford can offer is ad-hominem
defamation.

This, I think, more than anything else, shows that he simply cannot
support his argument.

And as somebody said "he who argues with an idiot is one himself".

Mr. Ford, I will note, has called me an idiot, and then has argued with me.

Q.E.D.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD . . .)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:34:52 GMT

In article <259@ulogic.UUCP> hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:
#You have no proof anymore.

Just because you throw away your proof of copyright does not mean you
lose your copyright.

#>But only because you willfully deleted the original.
#*I* didn't delete it.  I didn't even know about it (speaking as
#the generic user, not as a sysadmin).

Who did then? I most certainly did not delete. Which human are you
claiming DID delete it?

--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
Xref: sparky news.admin:7506 misc.legal.computing:2091
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:02:23 GMT
 <1992Sep4.231701.15240@gtephx.UUCP> <1992Sep7.012059.5633@wolves.uucp> <1992Sep7.034020.4380@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>

In <1992Sep7.034020.4380@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:

>I can't speak for Mr. Ford (although I think he'll agree), that none
>of us that have been arguing either the command model or the implied
>copying contract scenario have said there is no copyright violation
>if someone posts another author's work without that author's
>permission.  I do not think, however, that the network bears any
>liability for such acts and that in such cases, it would only be
>the poster that would be found guilty of any criminal and/or
>civil copyright violation.

"The network" isn't (yet) recognized as a legal entity.  It is the sites
that might be found liable for copyright violation (probably civil -- as I
understand the difference, only the poster could (and probably would) be
liable for criminal copyright violation.)  I am NOT a lawyer, but I believe
a lawyer would only say there are no precedents.
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
My interaction with our news system is unstable; please mail anything important.