HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwex@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (david.e.wexelblat)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Free software and the future of support for Diamond products
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:28:23 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: AT&T

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:01:59 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep6.210159.18607@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386,comp.windows.x,comp.os.linux,comp.os.mach,comp.unix.bsd,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

In article <eaVY02MJ20P.01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> gab10@griffincd.amdahl.com (Gary A Browning) writes:
> What is XFree86's feeling about negotiating the distribution of a very
> small binary library with their release that contains just the
> Diamond Configuration routines.  This would not be any more reverse
> engineerable than the ROM supplied with the video cards, it allows the
> server to still be distributed in source form, and it keeps a lot of
> Diamond's current and future customers happy.
> 
> For those users that do not have one of these cards, they get complete
> source code.  For those that do have the cards, they get complete source
> code except for the Video Card Clock Configuration routine.
> 
> It the longer term, my guess is that the Diamond policy will change when
> its competators release their cards.  At this point the source could be
> included.
> -- 
> Gary Browning        | Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a
> 		     | great idea hits you, and just before you realize
>                      | what is wrong with it.


I should have covered this topic in the initial posting.

We discussed this possibility and decided that we have no desire to
enter the legal tangle involved in signing the non-disclosures that would
be involved.  I, for one, could not sign such an agreement, given my
current employment status.  And the others are not willing to take
on the responsibility.  So this will not happen.

We are sorry if there are people who can't use our software, but we are
not in business.  We are a bunch of hackers putting something together
in our spare time, using our own financial resources to do it.  We can't
be all things to all people.

So until Diamond changes their policies, we will not go to any effort
to support them.  We are already expending more effort to try to get
data to use to get them to change their policy than some of us think
should be expended.

That's the way it is, and that's the way it will remain.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David Wexelblat             | dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com  | Somebody get me a
AT&T Bell Laboratories      | ...!att!mtgzfs3!dwex  |   cheeseburger!
200 Laurel Ave - 4B-421     |                       |      
Middletown, NJ  07748       | (908) 957-5871        | --Steve Miller Band
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:26:36 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA

Date: 9 Sep 92 05:28:21 GMT
Message-Id: <18k21lINNkj8@early-bird.think.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors

In article <1992Sep8.211314.23372@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
>I am not arguing with their findings.  I am saying merely that it *is*
>slower _for_me_.  Or are you trying to say that my time-sense is so out
>of whack that I merely *think* I'm typing 10 to 20 cps?  Or perhaps
>that I merely *think* that I can't make a mouse selection in .05 to .1
>second?

Hold on, folks.  Are you comparing things at the same level?  Sure, you can
type at 100 wpm =~ 10 cps.  But a command line is typically around 10-20
characters, so it takes 1-2 seconds to enter a command.  In a GUI, a
command is often just a click followed by a menu or palette seletion, which
Apple claims took their subjects 1-2 seconds.

Your comparison might be reasonable if people were entering running text
using the mouse, but even the most devoted GUI afficionados agree that a
keyboard is necessary for a word processor.

100 wpm is a reasonably proficient typist, but the learning curve necessary
to be able to select menu item in two seconds may be pretty short.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: sinan@Mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: tutorial of imake
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:07:36 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:48:41 PDT
Message-Id: <9209151948.AA17282@mtesol>

> From: cs000hf@selway.umt.edu (Hong Fan)
> Organization: University of Montana
> Subject: tutorial of imake
> 
> Hi: everybody:
> 
> Does anyone know where to get some tutorials of how to write imake and 
> makedepend file from X? I hereby thank you for the hint. Please mail me
> at cs000hf@selway.ut.edu or hf@huckle.cs.umt.edu
> 

 Many whitepapers are avilable from

 listserv@sunup.west.sun.com

That is the list server that I usually get whitepapers from.

 Try help in the subject line and in the body of message and then
follow instructions....

Sinan
From: nelson@magenta.me.fau.edu (Kevin Nelson)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Question: Daily Planner
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:42:13 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Chinese Circus Clowns Congregation

Date: 2 Sep 92 16:13:23 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep2.161323.27487@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Does anyone know of a PD x-program that functions as
a daily planner and alarm. Something similar to dec-windows
planner. Preferably for the SUN.

Thanks in Advance.

Kevin M. Nelson
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton FL.
E-Mail: nelson@magenta.me.fau.edu, nelson@acc.fau.edu
-------------------------------:-----------------------------------
Zen-Buddha : The path to enlightenment is through confusion.
Wiseman    : Live simply & peacefully so all creatures can live.
-------------------------------:-----------------------------------
From: kwan@netcom.com (Kwan-Seng Low)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Free software and the future of support for Diamond products
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:54:25 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 21:52:25 GMT
Message-Id: <c3xn+a=.kwan@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386,comp.windows.x,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.mach,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware

In article <1992Sep13.142036.26842@nuchat.sccsi.com> steve@nuchat.sccsi.com (Steve Nuchia) writes:
>In <1992Sep12.035549.4743@zeos.com> kgermann@zeos.com (Ken Germann) writes:
>>The solution for the support of X/Windows in the Freeware arena or
>>any other arena would be to design a VESA based driver for these
>
>The solution, for those of us who care about such things, is to
>not buy undocumented hardware.  Vote with your wallet.
>--      ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Steve Nuchia      South Coast Computing Services, Inc.      (713) 661-3301

I'm not sure what you really mean here, undocumented hardware. Any documented
hardware would expose most of the vendor's proprietary design, at least the
majority of them. That was the first place Diamond refuse to give away their
proprientary scheme to set the clock.
	If none of the vendor willing to reveal how to set clock on their s3
based card, maybe us the users might consider design our own.
	Here's my dream card: User contributed, VESA compliance SVGA card.
Given enough hardware design tools (Orcad, spice,...), one would came up a
hardware design that only utilize standard component that's readily available
in any large electronics shop (e.g. Fry's in Bay Area). Complete schematics,
parts list, how to obtain it, complete doc. on how to build it, everything 
available on public domain.
	People has been selling hardware kit for some time, come to think about
it, it's something that can be done. In this case, we just have a very narrow 
focus; we want to build a public domain hardware design that's specifically
optimized to run X on PC's unixes. People can take the initial design, perfect
it, perhaps adding new chips/parts when they're readily available on the market.

	any response is welcome, just want to test this idea is making sense.
It would eliminate the dependence on vendors when it come to writing display
driver.

Kwan
From: zxmsd01@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Gunther Schadow)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Is there a WYSIWYG textprocessor for X11?
Date: 15 Sep 92 02:29:25 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG

Date: 14 Sep 92 21:16:06 GMT
Message-Id: <zxmsd01.716505366@mailserv>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Hi there,

does anybody know of any WYSIWYG-like text processor for X11. It might
be something like MS-Word or WP too. The thing is, I upraded from DOS
to UNIX and X, and I still suffer from having no quick text formatter.
TeX is nice but not too useful on small texts with much formatting.

Any Ideas??

thanks
-Gunther
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gunther Schadow,	          e-mail: Gunther@mailserv.ZDV.Uni-Tuebingen.DE
Sudetenstrasse 25,	          Phone:  (49) 7071/37527
7400 Tuebingen, Germany.__________Stop__________Horn Please!__________O.K. TATA
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gunther Schadow,	          e-mail: Gunther@mailserv.ZDV.Uni-Tuebingen.DE
Sudetenstrasse 25,	          Phone:  (49) 7071/37527
7400 Tuebingen, Germany.__________Stop__________Horn Please!__________O.K. TATA
From: jliddle@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Jean Liddle)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: PC X term emulators (free)
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:59:17 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Illinois State University

Date: 12 Sep 92 22:26:27 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep12.222627.3356@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In <1992Sep9.181720.6368@ra.msstate.edu> borchert@walt.CS.MsState.Edu (Chris Borchert) writes:
>I assume there are no free X term emulators on the internet.  Are my 
>choices only DESQview/X and Hummingbird for the PC?  Wouldn't a used Sun 3/50 
>or 3/60 make a cheaper X term for a company than a 386+ PC with ethernet
>card and X term software?
>

From reading your post, it does not sound as though you are married to
MS-DOS as many poeple who post your question are.  If this is the case,
and the PC you are using has a 386 or better in it, there is a FREE
unix available in two flavors: 386BSD and Linux, both of which have
X11R5 (actually X386 v. 1.1 and 1.2E) running under them.  I have been
using Linux + X11 for some time with great success on my 486 at home.

There are some limitations:

Hardware requirements include 4 MB Mem (Linux+X11) Minimum, with 8 MB
recommended for any serious work.  Right now video cards with Tseng/3000
and Tseng/4000 chips are the best supported, although there now exist
drivers for 8415 and ATI cards as well (These are still in testing,
however).  

Some strange mice are not supported, although if yours does logitech
or microsoft mouse emulation you are probably ok.  A couple of other
common types are supported as well.

Getting X set up is not terribly difficult, but it is time
consuming and can be a little intimidating at first, as you have to
figure out the timings for your video card & monitor.  For linux there
is a small utility "xclk" to assist in setting up your configuration
correctly.  This does have the added advantage of allowing you to get
more out of your card + monitor than the standard bios modes.

Needless to say, I have been very impressed with Linux + X as a whole.
Although the operating system is still in beta (current version is
0.97.5) it is extremely stable (I've never been able to crash it, and
I've tried by editing two photographs, displaying a postscript file,
downloading a 350k file, and compiling two programs simultaneously.  
Performance did slow down due to swapping though :) ).

Anyway, the cost is some room on your hd for a linux partition 
(about 40 MB if you want full gnu utils, mail, X11, and compilers) and
time installing.

hope this helps!

Jean.
-- 
Jean Liddle                                 | == Bill Clinton for President ==
Computer Science, Illinois State University | 
e-mail:  jliddle@ilstu.edu                  | - Carol Mosley Braun for Senat -
From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: move/resize won't work in twm from the keyboard
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:30:12 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: York University

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:15:53 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep7.181553.15078@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Paul Sharpe (sd344@city.ac.uk) wonders:
> .. why the following entry in my .twmrc doesn't work.
> "F7"    = m     : all  : f.move
> "F8"    = m     : all  : f.resize

There is a line of code in the twm source that specifically traps Move
and Resize (but not ForceMove) attempts from the keyboard.  The comment
at that point says they "don't make sense".  I wrote to Tom LaStrange
(the original "t" in "twm") asking if I could just remove that line.
His reply was "no, not unless you want to do a lot of work".

Managing Move and Resize _initiated_ from a KeyPress event is a lot of
work I found out, but not fundamentally different than from a
ButtonPress event.  You have to track the motion of the pointer - lots
of round-trip activity.  I wrote (as an exercise in understanding the
Xlib and X Protocol levels) a minimal window manager (called "wmwm" -
white male window manager) that does Move and Resize intitiated from
the keyboard, but very crudely.  It's probably neither particularly
ICCCM-compliant nor politically correct (hence the name.)

--
tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada
From: dankoski@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul Dankoski)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Xview Pinnable Windows.
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:16:27 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Stanford University

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 03:59:54 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep14.035954.19010@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


  Hello, I am looking for anyone with experience with
pinnable menus in XView.  I am trying to modify the
menu_dir2.c file in the back of the XView Programming
Manual (3rd Edition).  Here's the problem:


  When I add about 60 items to a pullright menu it will format
the pop-up menu fairly nicely (in 3 columns).  But when I pin 
the same menu it comes out in only a single column (which happen to 
run off the edge of my screen).   I have tried setting the 
attribute MENU_NCOLS to 3 (say).  And when I pin the menu I 
still get only 1 column of data.

   Is this the default behavior?  I realize I could try to 
add a MENU_PIN_PROC to replace the menu_default_pin_proc().  
However, I would prefer not to replace the default behavior if there
is a cleaner solution.  Perhaps the solution has something
to do with the fact that once you pin a window it is
no longer a menu?

Thanks for your help,

Paul Dankoski



Other points:
   I am attaching the menus to a panel instead of a canvas.  
(I don't think that this should be a problem).
   I have tried setting the attribute MENU_NCOLS to 3 both
before and after I have added the menu_items to the menu
with no impact on the problem.

-- 
Paul Dankoski
email: dankoski@isl.stanford.edu
W1: (415) 723-3024
W2: (415) 725-6948
From: adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: GUI design tools?
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:24:36 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: The College of William and Mary

Date: 7 Sep 92 21:39:59 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep7.213959.21517@cs.wm.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Hello net,
	I've seen references to two GUI design tools for developing X
appclications, Dirt and Xt. Can anyone tell me where to find these and wether
there are other free tools which are pretty good, or at least better than
XDesigner? I need ones for both Motif 1.1 and OpenView.


Thanks in advance,

ATF

-- 
                                  --->>>| Support you local programmer,
adrian@cs.wm.edu                    -->>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW!
adrian@cebafi.cebaf.gov               ->| membership info at prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/lpf
Member: League for Programming Freedom  | print "join.ps" for an application
From: jruiz@wm.estec.esa.nl (Jose Ruiz -Student-)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: WANTED (again): function to load an Image file in to a pixmap
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:01:13 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: ESA/Estec/WMS, Noordwijk, The Netherlands

Date: 9 Sep 92 10:43:47 GMT
Message-Id: <BuB4H0.BqD@wm.estec.esa.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


Related to my revious request on the subject:

What I need as well is to avoid as much as possible the colormap clash that may result
from loading an bits-color image into my application.

So I suppose compacting the colormap and installing it properly would do the job,
but I have trouble finding out what to do exactly.

Help|Hints|Clues wanted...
From: sinan@Mtesol.boeing.com (Sinan Karasu)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: setsid on 4.3+BSD
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:24:43 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 12:54:09 PDT
Message-Id: <9209081954.AA08481@mtesol>


 I have xview running on a concurrent machine. However when a term window
is created (with devGuide) a call to setsid is generated. Concurrent RTU
does not have a setsid function ( that I could find anyway. This is all
in "universe ucb"). 

Q: Is this a 4.3 or a BSD function ? (W. Richard Stevens says
   it is SVR4 and Posix but is vague about it's origins.)
Q: does anybody have the source code for setsid ?
Q: is it available at ftp.uu.net:/systems/unix/bsd-sources/lib


Thanxs for your help..
Sinan
From: rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:23:19 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Human Communication Research Center

Date: 8 Sep 92 15:52:38 GMT
Message-Id: <RJC.92Sep8165238@daiches.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x

In article <smr.715609399@hitkw14>, S.Riehm  (s) writes:

s> I figure that GUI's are inherently non-extensible, even those
s> wonderful window manager that allow you to define your own pop-up
s> menus and so on, can you make this menu beep when it pops up? can you
s> make this tear off menu always sit at the back of the window stack
s> unless called up explicitly? 

Yes. Now, C may not be the ideal configuration language, but it is
there. X's `mechanism, not policy' slogan does have some advantages. 

--
rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk	Running something almost, but not quite,
			totally unlike twm.
From: TGJ@UKHOUO.Prime.COM (Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Opinions on Autocad for unix
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:16:58 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <9209150744.AA05709@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Encoding: 20 text (note by Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group), 27 message (from David Lewis)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:43:40 UT

There is a CAD list that is more appropriate for your question.

Send the normal sub cadlist your name

to the listserv@suvm

Regards

ps Caddstation is a CV trademark and nothing to do with Autocad

============================================================================
Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group   Telephone +44 256 301230
Computervision (UK) Ltd Basingstoke                 Fax       +44 256 301215
Internet : tgj@ukhouo.prime.com
X.400    :  /C=GB/A=TMailUK/P=Prime/O=Prime Computer Ltd/S=Jeffery/G=Terry

  I play all the right notes - not necessarily in the right order
============================================================================

--- Original message :

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:39:29 GMT
From: kelson@ais.org (David Lewis)
Organization: UMCC
Subject: Opinions on Autocad for unix
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
To: xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu




    We are thinking about adding some cadd stations here and I was advocating
they be unix stations.  More so, since we do light 2d drawings, I wanted
to get a nice unix box and hang about 4 x terminals off of it. If we did
this we would go with Autocad.  Can anyone give me opinions on Autocad
for unix?  Can I get some advantages of Autocad on unix over autocad
on dos?  The president of our company would like to stay with dos machines.
So I need to make a good case if I want to get unix.  (we were looking
at a sparc II running solaris.)

  Thanks
    David

kelson@ais.org
From: deveau@oceanroutes.ns.ca ("Terry J. Deveau")
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Keyboard considered useful?
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:03:15 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Oceanroutes Canada Inc.

Message-Id: <9209101355.AA07562@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 10:54:36 ADT
Phone: (902) 468-3007, FAX: (902) 468-3009
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]

> > >> (Does anyone know why there isn't a magic key sequence to get to the
> > >> menubar, for instance?)
> 
> > "get to"?  The menubar is not a keyboard-useful device, unless you want
> > to arrow-key step through everything.
> 
> Or unless you're running Microsft Windows. In which case you can step
> through the menus selecting the underlined letters with the ALT key
> depressed. It's amazingly handy. I wonder why nobody else has picked it
> up. Does Microsoft have a patent on it or something?

Or unless you're using Motif - or has all this "GUI's considered harmfull"
banter made you forget that this thread is for X topics.  The ordinary
use of menu-bar mnemonics under Motif is: hold down the Meta key and page
through the menus by pressing the underlined letters on the menu-bar.

... Terry
From: english@alicudi.usc.edu (Joe English)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Scrollbars (was Re: GUIs Considered Harmful)
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:07:52 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Nerds of Action

Date: 10 Sep 1992 12:46:32 -0700
Message-Id: <lav9goINN5m0@alicudi.usc.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors



In article <oefiyZO00VAt5mSIYY@andrew.cmu.edu>, fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat) writes:
|> mark@spider.co.uk (Mark Valentine) writes:
|> > 
|> > Scrollbars are another GUI feature that seem simply to waste real estate
|> > most of the time.  Most people I point it out to are pleasantly surprised
|> > to learn that SHIFT-PGUP does the sensible thing by default in xterm (well,
|> > half-sensible, I customised it to go a full page).
|>  [...]
|> off topic:
|> not to mention a blatant NeXT plug:
|> NeXT scrollbars are the ONLY good implementation of this I have seen -
|> click somewhere in the scroll space and the bar moves right there (the
|> bar is also sized proportionally to the visible space / scrollable
|> space ratio),

I rather like the xterm/xman scrollbar behaviour, now that
I've figured out how to work it -- Clicking/dragging button 2
does the same thing described above, clicking button 1 pushes
the line next to the pointer to the top of the screen, and clicking
button 3 pulls the top line down next to the pointer.  Very handy.
The bindings are a little weird (I would have swapped the button1/button2
actions; it seems a bit more intuitive that ``move the thumb here''
is the primary action and should be bound to the primary button),
and the entire thumb can scroll off the bottom, but other than that
it works well.

|> [...] and the
|> buttons at the ends of the scrollbar are in pairs so if you miss and
|> have to back up, you just move 1/8 inch, not all the way to the other
|> end of the bar.

Agreed!  When I first saw a picture of the NeXT UI this was the
first thing that jumped out at me.  Why didn't anyone else 
think of that?  It's much more sensible than the Mac/Motif layout,
and let's not even *mention* the horrifying things OpenLook 
``elevators'' do...

--Joe English

  joe@trystero.art.com