HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best)
Subject: Re: Another meter question
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:00:43 GMT
Organization: your service

>I'm upgrading my service, and the elec. co. sited my meter at a spot that
>is a bit further away from the breaker box than ideal.  I'm rather constrained
>as to the location of the box.  Bringing the main line through the wall
>directly below the meter site puts it about 20 feet away from the box.  Is
>it allowed to run the line (either outside or inside, in counduit) that far
>before connecting to the main breaker?  Or would I be better off putting
>a main breaker box right at the entrance point, then running to the "real"
>box from there?  This is a 200amp service, by the way.

----------

Check the NEC (and/or whatever else applies), but here's a starter:
There's a maximum distance the service can run inside the house before it gets
to the panel.  I think it's probably less than 20 feet.  You might be better
off running conduit (or cable where permitted) along the outside wall until
you're close to the panel.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: grounding subpanel in detached garage
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 19:26:12 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu) writes:

> I brought this up over a year ago but I'm about to finally do it. But I'm sti
> not clear on how to handle the ground and neutral. 
> 
> 1. Do I need both ground and neutral (along with the 2 hots) in the feed from
> the main panel in the house to the garage panel? Or can the ground serve as
> both the 110v return as well as the ground? The run is around 30 feet and I w
> planning on using USE 6-2/G cable. 
> 
> 2. Can I then connect neutral bus and ground bar together in the subpanel? Th

Code says separate ground and neutral run to the subpanel, *NOT* tied
together in it. A subpanel isn't a service entrance, and can't be
treated as one.

I believe this is in the wiring FAQ....

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:52:12 GMT
Subject: Re: ADVICE WANTED:  Changing house outlets from 2 to 3 prongs
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

Better look for Chris Lewis's electrical FAQ.  It covers your questions
in detail (and conforms to current electrical code, unlike some
of the more common answers to this question...).

I don't have the address for the FAQ server, but it gets posted
fairly often.  

Pete Brooks
From: jd30+@andrew.cmu.edu (Justin Decheck)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Round tile cut with no wet saw?
Date: 30 Jul 92 06:41:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UeRzxza00UhWQ28WFC
Organization: Computer Engineering Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Recently I cut an arc on about 30 floor tiles with a nipper for the
rough cut and a stationary 6" grinder.  The wheel was nothing special. 
It worked great. You may need a different size wheel depending on your
radius. If you do it this way, work outdoors if possible and wear a dust
mask.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Restoring old houses
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 16:05:33 GMT
Keywords: Another opinion

In article <1992Jul23.140812.17887@alw.nih.gov> sullivan@alw.nih.gov (Jim Sullivan) writes:
>In article <1202@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro) writes:
>|> 
>|>         OK. So restoring old houses is not fun.  I know that.  I have never 
>|>         lived in a house built before 1920, however, and I NEVER plan to
>|>         do so...
>
>This depends...

Jim continues with lots of good stuff. One further point to make. The age
of the house is not nearly as important in this as the state of the local
economy at the time of construction. If the house was built in a boom
period (in this area, four years ago was one), the contractors probably
cut corners to complete the job cheaply and rapidly enough to take advantage
of (possibly temporary) high prices.

The inspectors would also have been overloaded at that time because of
the quantity of new construction. In this area that means they skip some
houses. Unscrupulous developers count on the fact that they can make enough
on the houses that don't get inspected to more than pay for the re-done
work on the one that does. There was one built five years ago just down
the street in which siding decided to head South in the first high wind.

This is not invariant. There are lots of contientious and honest people
in the trade - in fact, most of them are - but I would never buy a house
built right after the end of a war.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | When you're working on a project and drop
                    | something, it will never reach the ground.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gene@lgc.com (Gene Lege')
Subject: Re: Geothermal heatpump
Organization: Landmark Graphics Corporation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:03:29 GMT

In article <11000@rls.UUCP> randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith) writes:
>eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot) writes:
>> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>>> Did you know anyone who tried one of those "geothermal" heatpumps
>>> where the input (and output?) for the pump is buried below the
>>> frostline?  I have heard that they are much better. 
>>
>> No, as far as I know these weren't geothermal.  For whatever reason,
>> those don't seem to be used around here.
>
>If the heat exchange occurs in the ground, it is considered geothermal.
>
>In many parts of the country they haven't caught on.  They are a
>superior form of heat transfer because of the consistant temperature
>of the earth and the efficiency range for the heat pump.  You pay more
>because the heat transfer line has to be buried in the ground and any
>time there is earth to be dug for any reason, it is expensive.

>Heat *must* be within the efficiency range for heat exchange or the
>release and capture cannot occur.  Heated freon simply flows through the
>system with no beneficial effects.  Because the ambient air temperature
>is often outside the efficiency range for an air based heat pump at
>the times of greatest need, they must be backed up by conventional
>heating and cooling equipment.
>
>The efficient range for most heat pumps for heating is an ambient
>temperature above 22F.  Much below that temp, heat cannot be drawn from
>the air/ground/water to transfer into the dwelling.  For cooling the
>ambient temperature is somewhere around 78F.  Much above that temp, heat
>cannot be released to be drawn from the dwelling.

I think it's a little higher than that; Otherwise heat-pumps (and
air-conditioners for that matter) would be of little use down here...

Maybe they just use bigger compressers to up the high end...

Anyway, I'm in the process of purchasing a new home that happens to
use a "normal" (non-geothermal) heat pump.  Does anyone know if this
can be converted to a geothermal type by having the coils buried some
time in the future?  The idea of that nice big heat-bath at a constant
72 F to exchange with is very appealing, to say the least...

Thanks for any info,

gl
--
Gene Lege' - Landmark Graphics Corporation - Houston, TX
glege@lgc.com
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: ADVICE WANTED:  Changing house outlets from 2 to 3 prongs
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:48:07 GMT
	<1992Jul28.011319.14616@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Jul28.011319.14616@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:

   In article <1992Jul27.185459.3955@vlsi.ll.mit.edu> ac@vlsi.ll.mit.edu (Andrew V. Curtis) writes:

   >        I just bought a 45 year old house that is in outstanding condition
   >with one exception: it is equipped with only two-prong outlets throughout
   >the house.  So if possible I would like so ideas/advice about what I would 
   >need to do to convert the house to three-prong outlets.  I don't know if 
   >the third wire is already running through the house or not.  If you have 
   >any idea as to procedure/materials/cost/advice for the above I would greatly
   >appreciate it.

   A house that old probably has the old armored cable in it. The stuff I'm
   thinking of has two insulated wires inside a spiral metal sheath. If that's
   the case, most or all of your outlet boxes will be grounded back to the
   box by this sheath. You can check this for each outlet by putting a circuit
   tester between the hot line and the box. If you get a good, bright, signal,
   you don't need a third wire; just buy a three prong outlet and put it in.
   You can then test the result with a circuit tester to the grounding plug.

It's called BX.  Armored cable is generally fine.  It should carry a
bare third wire, although I believe you're correct on using it 
as a safety ground

   A few points to make here -
   1. If you ever do major work on this, it'll probably have to be brought
      up to code. In that case, you'll probably have to replace the line
      with Romex.

No.  BX should meet modern code.  Modern code still requires BX in
areas where mechanical problems require greater protection of the
conductors.  Romex (NMC) is not very protective.

   2. The insulation in cable that old is *very, very* delicate. They
      typically used rubber and/or cotton, and this will be dry and brittle.
      If you have to move the wire very much to replace any particular
      outlet, leave it alone.

It shouldn't be all that delicate.  It isn't as if it were directly
exposed wiring dating back 100 years.  I've found the wiring in my
house (35 years) to be in good condition generally,  including 
the BX.

   3. If you don't get a good ground signal from any particular outlet before
      trying to replace it, leave that one alone.

Another option is to add a GFCI outlet.  This will provide good safety
and shock protection.  But you can add safety grounds as well.

--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
From: mehrpuya@rtsg.mot.com (Djamschid Mehrpuyan)
Subject: building a house
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:14:12 GMT


I plan to build a house in the near future by hiring an architect and various
building contractors.  What I would like to know is what process to go 
through to build a house.  Here is what I know sofar:

     1.  Buy some land
     2.  Hire an architect who will design the house of your dreams
     3.  Hire contractors (building contractors, electrician, etc)

I was also told that you need to get a so-called loan package from a bank.
A loan package consists of a lot loan, construction loan, and a mortgage.

Are there any books or magazine articles that discuss in detail on how
to build your own house ?  What is the best real-estate magazine ?


Thanks for any info

     -Dj

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: How to revive "burnt" grass?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:03:58 GMT


In article <1992Jul23.174143.6724@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, mks@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (manishkumar.sharma) writes:
>While fertilizing my lawn last week, I miscalculated the spreader setting.
>This resulted in the fertilizer being dropped in excess on certain spots
>on the lawn. Two days ago, I noticed that the grass in these spots was
>"burnt" (apparently by too much fertilizer). My question is, is the grass
>*dead* so that I'll need to reseed these spots in the fall? What can I do
>to revive it?

That happened to me too.  But after two to three weeks (the continous
rain storms probably helped too), the patches are green again.  I guess
grass are just like weeds, hard to kill.
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Round tile cut with no wet saw?
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:31:02 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

scholl@uvmark.uucp (Kathryn Scholl) writes:

>What is "the norm" when it comes to cutting out big curves on tile?
>I have ALOT of patience (like tile-nipping patience) since I always
>want my project to look as best as possible.  I know that the grout
>can hide alot of the rough look of the nips, but if anyone has any
>other suggestions, I'd really appreciate it!

Call up an outfit called True-Bite 800 828 5808 and tell 'em what
you're doing.  They'll sell you a carbide ceramic cutting bit for
your dremel tool.  If you don't have a Dremel tool, a power drill
will do but more slowly.  This bit will cost about $12.  In a dremel
tool it cuts almost like a knife.  The smoothness of the cut will 
depend on the steadiness of your hand but can approach that of the uncut
tile.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: hmoss@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Howard Moss)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Job in DC as a consumer advocate?
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:34:37 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA

I'm not sure if this falls into your categorization, but I've always
been impressed (and have supported) Center for Science in the Public
Interest (CSPI). They publish the magazine Nutrition Action. 
Howard
From: braverman@mtechca.maintech.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Painting PVC
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:56:53 PST
Organization: MAINTECH, A division of Volt Delta Resources, Inc. Orange, CA

In article <13237@pogo.wv.tek.com>, stevez@pogo.wv.tek.com (Stephen A Zimmerman) writes:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm considering different types of railing for the deck I'm building... one
> of which involves using 1" PVC pipe for the balusters (sp?).  What sort of
> paint, if any, will stick to PVC and survive Oregon rainfalls?
> 
> Steve Zimmerman
-- 

I used a primer called XIM primer that was recommended by a local paint dealer.
I uesd it to paint some PVC rain gutter to match my trim color.  First I wiped
it down with acetone to dull the finish, primed with XIM, then put on 2 coats
of the same acrylic paint that was used on the trim.  Looks like a good bond.
I just put the gutters up this past spring, so time will tell how good it
really is.  The guy at the store said you can use XIM to paint over glass, so
it should work on PVC.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
+ Joel Braverman                               e-mail: braverman@maintech.com +
+ MAINTECH, a division of Volt Delta Resources, Inc.                          +
+ 2401 North Glassell Street                    voice:  (714) 921 7649        +
+ Orange, CA  92665-2705                          fax:  (714) 921 7510        +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mccalley@rtsg.mot.com (Phil McCalley)
Subject: Re: 'Smelly' ice cubes
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:56:34 GMT

GA.MCL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark C. Lawrence) writes:

>In article <BrrC6z.8r@unx.sas.com>,
>sasjaa@morticia.unx.sas.com (James Adams) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.162305.23369@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks) writes:
>>|>
>>|> In article <1992Jul21.134111.7840@sei.cmu.edu>, wml@sei.cmu.edu (Walter Lamia) writes...
>>|> >
>>|> >I need some advice on what causes ice cubes in the freezer to pick up odors,
>>|> >and what do to about it.  This is a 1-yr old Amana refrigerator in a new
>>|> >house, but I have noticed the problem in other refrigerators.  The odor is
>>|> >vaguely like onion or garlic.  An open box of baking soda doesn't seem to
>>|> >help, either.
>>|> >
>>|> >I presume this is caused by something else stored in the freezer, but
>>|> >everything is frozen hard, and wrapped in plastic.  Can anyone suggest what
>>|> >might be the exact culprit, and what I might try to eliminate the problem?

>In most refrigerator/freezers, the air circulates between the two
>sections, so something in the refrigerator side could be polluting
>your ice cubes.

Of it could be leaking freon gas.  Yuck!  I have seen this many times.
I know your fridge is new, but maybe they dropped it a few inches when
it came off the truck.  I would look into the other solutions first.  It
is not easy to find a freon leak, and it could be expensive.  That's what
warranties are for.  Good luck!
-- 
....................................................... Phil McCalley
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gene@lgc.com (Gene Lege')
Subject: Re: Buying a New House
Organization: Landmark Graphics Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:53:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.151636.25724@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> zlh@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (zhih-li.hwa) writes:
>I am planning to purchase a house in a new development.   The builder
>asks for 10% initial deposit, additional 8% of purchasing price at completion 
>of framing,  and another 8% at completion of insulation.   It bothers me because
>I have to put a lot of money at risk (the money is not in an escrow account) 
>before the closing.   Is this a common practice?   
>
>Any input will be appreciated. 
>
>Zhih-Li Hwa
>
>
>

I know these things vary from one local to another, but that sounds
high.

Here in Houston (and, I believe, in all of Texas) the common practice is
to require an initial deposit (that typically is in the 1% to 2% range)
plus anything from 50% to 100% of all optional features as an ernest deposit.

This is for "standard" tract housing.  Of course they normally wait for
financing approval before begining construction, which does reduce the risk
to the builder considerably...

I would imagine that significantly higher deposits are required on "custom"
constuction, but 24% still seems very high.  I would probably seriously
look at getting a performance bond for that kind of deposit.  The first
thing that comes to mind is that the builder might have cash-flow or other
financial problems...


gl
--
Gene Lege' - Landmark Graphics Corporation - Houston, TX
glege@lgc.com
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 22 Jul 1992 20:31:37 MST
From: Bob Kaneshige <KHAAV@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Reseeding vs. resodding
Distribution: usa


In article <10002@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, steveh@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Stephen Hume)
says:
>
>In article <92203.070530KHAAV@ASUACAD.BITNET> KHAAV@ASUACAD.BITNET (Bob
>Kaneshige) writes:
>>Theres also another alternative; stolens.  It cost me $28 to cover 800 sq'
>What are stolens???

Well, late at nite, after your neighbor's gone to bed, grab a shovel and
start transferring his freshly resodded lawn onto yours  :-)

It should have been spelled as 'stolons'.  Stolons are above ground stems
that the grass produces.  They root into the soil where a node in the stem
comes into contact with the soil.  These are harvested and bagged.  You
spread the stolons and cover them with a light layer of mulch to help hold
them to the ground and hold moisture.  You need to use a roller to press
the stolons into contact with the soil.

  Bob
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: muchow@zebo.network.com (Jim Muchow)
Subject: Re: Propane price query?
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 16:44:18 GMT

In article <4100730@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> bparrish@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (William Parrish) writes:
>I'm curious what people are paying for Propane right about now...
>

I just bought my next years (800 gallons) supply for $0.55/gallon.
As a (sort of) new customer (I just moved houses, but stayed with 
the same propane people), I was given a new customer price of 
$0.50/gallon.

>Last January, my rate per gallon was $1.119 per gallon, but typically
>it drops to around .90/gallon in the summer... however we recently
>got filled up (first time since the name change, I think), and the
>rate was still $1.119/gallon (this was on 6/23/92).   (By the way, we
>also pay about $50/year for a 250 gallon tank)
>

You might want to try to find a coop propane company. My prices are a lot
less than yours for everything.

>Well, I went a bit nonlinear after this, and called the manager in Lincoln
>CA (near Sacramento) and asked him why they were quoting a lower price to
>new customers than "old" ones.    He stated this was like a new subscriber
>rate to the newspaper... and was common business practice.

It is. Obviously it depends on how much competition there is and such, but
everyone gets a new customer discount. You could change companies every 
year or so (if there are enough of 'em in the area). Another thing you
could do would be to buy your own tank and just call around whenever you
need gas to find the cheapest.

Jim Muchow


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot)
Subject: Re: Humming Water Pipe
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 20:58:48 GMT
Reply-To: eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <1992Jul22.174813.16481@lclark.edu>, miller@lclark.edu (John Miller) writes:
|> Seems like I have experienced humming pipes caused by a very slow leak in
|> toilet causing a somewhat faulty toilet-valve (the valve operated by the
|> float) to vibrate while letting in a tiny stream of water.
|> 
Hah!  Just last night I was in the tub with my boy, and I discovered that if
I pushed the drain plug thing aside just right with my heel, it mooed.  Our
plug is a funny rubber mechanism thing that I put in to substitute for the
seized-up normal drain plug mechanism.  It worked so well that after the
bath, Tommy went down stairs to see if there really was a cow in the family
room.  So look for water stoppers made of flexible rubber -- almost 
undoubtedly in a toilet.

I didn't put 2 and 2 together about this humming until I read this posting.

-- 
Topher Eliot             Data General DG/UX Systems Administration Development
(919) 248-6371      eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com       {backbone}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!eliot
Obviously, I speak for myself, not for DG.
misc.consumers.house archivist.  Send mail to house-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com
"Daddy, did you know that super banana squash is a vampire?  And he drinks
blood from cactuses?"  -- Tommy, age 3.
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