From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.non.sequitur
Subject: Re: Answer to Woodyatt's 'jisms (syllogisms, that is)
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:44:33 GMT
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less

[Note newsgroups and followups line]

Mr. Arnold neglected to quote the article he was responding to, so I
am reposting it for reference purposes.  I wouldn't waste bandwidth,
but Mr. Arnold has utterly failed to answer the questions I posed and
this fact would be difficult to notice without the questions right at
at hand.  What Mr. Arnold did post was a demonstration that his mind
is completely derailed.

In article <1992Oct5.192841.10834@wdl.loral.com>, I wrote:
| In article <1992Oct3.130317.2419@brandonu.ca>, mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
| # I see a number of pro-lifers saying that consent to sex equals
| # consent to the possibility of impregnation, therefore the woman
| # is irresponsible if she doesn't carry every conceived zygote to
| # term.  [...]
| 
| Drieux may threaten to kill me for dumbing down his joke, but...
| 
| Here's how it works:
| 
| A.  Assume: Consent to sex implies consent to the possibility of
|     pregnancy resulting from sex.
| 
| B.  Observation: Pregnancy carries the risk of death during
|     childbirth.
| 
| C.  Production: Consenting to the possibility of pregnancy means
|     consenting to the risk of death during childbirth associated with
|     the possibility of pregnancy.
| 
| D.  Theorem: Consent to sex implies consent to the risk of death
|     during childbirth.
| 
| Thus:
| 
| A.  Assume: It is irresponsible for a woman to consent to sex and
|     subsequently abort a resulting pregnancy, on the grounds that she
|     implicitly consented to the possibility of the grave matter of
|     pregnancy when she consented to sex, and abortion would
|     demonstrate her decision to have sex was careless.
| 
| B.  Observation: From the theorem derived above, consent to sex also
|     implies consent to risk of death during childbirth.
| 
| C.  Production: If consenting to the possibility of pregnancy and
|     subsequently aborting pregnancy when pregnancy occurs is
|     irresponsible, then it is also irresponsible to consent to the
|     risk of death during childbirth and abort the mother's life when
|     death during childbirth is imminent.
| 
| D.  Theorem: It is irresponsible for a woman to consent to sex and
|     subsequently abort a resulting pregnancy when death during
|     childbirth is imminent, on the grounds that she implicitly
|     consented to the grave matter of the risk of death during
|     childbirth when she consented to sex, and an abortion to save her
|     life would demonstrate that her decision to have sex was careless.
| 
| I would be pleasantly surprised to see a `pro-life' type who has
| advanced the assumption that consent to sex implies consent to the
| possibility of pregnancy comment on the logic demonstrated here.
| Specifically, I'd like said volunteer to comment on whether the
| assumptions are more ludicrous that the theorems produced, especially
| if they can't find any glaring flaws in the logic.
| 
| Come on, boys.  Two simple syllogisms in series.  You can do it.


Below is Mr. Arnold's answer.  When you read it, please refer to the
final paragraph in my most above where I sum up my thoughts and pose
the challenge Mr. Arnold attempts to meet.

sa114984@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steven Arnold) writes:
# 	When you have sex, you know you might become pregnant.  If you
# do, you are responsible for the well-being of the person who you have
# CAUSED to be in your body.  You cannot wantonly kill that person; you
# must take every reasonable step within your power to protect the life
# and safety of the person you have endangered.
# 	When the life of the mother is in danger, however, we are
# talking about a life vs. a life.  Who is to say which life is more
# important?  Both lives are equally threatened.
# 	When two lives of equal value are threatened (an either-or
# proposition), the state can prefer one life over the other.  The baby
# hasn't done anything wrong, true; but neither has the mother, two
# lives are at stake, and one or the other (or both) will die if nothing
# is done.
# 	When a mother has sex, she consents to take every reasonable
# step within her power to protect the life and safety of the person her
# act creates.  But she does not for that reason necessarily consent to
# abide any serious threat to her life.  To offer an analogy frequently
# used on t.a, if I hit someone else's car, I must do everything within
# my power to save the people I injured, but this does not mean I must
# donate my kidneys.  If they die, I may owe something to their families
# (who also lost something due to my negligence).  But in the case of an
# unborn baby, the parents ARE the family; if they wish to sue
# themselves, fine, but it seems a bit odd.
# 	On the other hand, if I simply left the people I had injured
# by the roadside, I'd be guilty of willful criminal negligence.  Worse
# yet, if I killed them to avoid the problem I'd be guilty of murder in
# the first degree.  I must do everything within my power to save the
# lives of the people I injured; but this does not mean I must
# substantially threaten my own life to do so.  Negligence is the key.
# If I do everything I can short of substantially threatening my own
# life, then my duties to the injured person are discharged (though not
# necessarily my responsibility to the family).

My opinion is that what Mr. Arnold has posted this to the wrong group.
In the future, perhaps he should post his material to alt.non.sequitur
himself and avoid the middleman.


-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

``Men who have no time to read should devote their time to reading
books of quotations.''
                                              -- Winston Churchill
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