HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Group splits, killfiles...
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 06:29:05 GMT

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>I simply cannot afford the time to read through ... news.announce.newgroups
>>on a continual basis.
>I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it.  There isn't that much traffic in
>n.a.newgroups.

Well, YOU don't buy that...but why should your standard be the official
"approved" standard for everybody? Why can't she have her standard and
that be OK with you? Must your way of doing things also be everybody
else's?
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

             It is a poor workman who blames his tools.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:44:58 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups,rec.games.frp.dnd,rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: negligable

And what *is* the objection to running the games by mail, maintaining
a log, and posting the finished product in rec.games.frp.archive (or
whatever the archive group was...)?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lazy day, Sunday afternoon.			|
Like to get your feet up, watch TV.		|	-Richard Hartman	
Sunday roast is something good to eat,		|	hartman@uLogic.COM
must be lamb to day 'cause beef was last week!	|

Xref: sparky news.groups:21516 comp.arch:10694 comp.os.misc:907
From: breland@cobweb.mcc.com (Mark Breland)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.arch,comp.os.misc
Subject: Re: Is there a general fault-tolerance news group?
Keywords: fault tolerance
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:50:50 GMT
Organization: MCC

In article <BxMq98.6Ln@rice.edu> retrac@vesuvius.cs.rice.edu (John Carter) writes:
>shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford) writes:
>>momtahan@bnrca (Parham Momtahan) writes:
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me if there is a more general news group for
>>> fault tolerant computing discussions? 
>>
>>At present there is no newsgroup in Usenet devoted to the discussion
>>of fault tolerance.
>>
>>Perhaps the time is ripe to issue a Request for Discussion (RFD) on
>>the creation of 'comp.arch.fault-tolerant'.  Would one of the folks
>
>However, I'd like to propose that it be called "comp.fault-tolerant" so as
>to not appear to be solely for hardware fault tolerance.  If you look
>throught the proceedings of such conferences as FTCS (Fault Tolerant
>Computing Systems) and SRDS (Symposium on Reliable Distributed Systems),
>you'll find that there is plenty of work being done in the area of software
>related fault tolerance.

.....uh, what he said.  I can bring in at least ten concurring votes.
(Let's draw consensus, what's our voting mechanism?, don't forget to
synchronize, and by all means recover gracefully).

Mark A. Breland                                            | Ada Fault Tolerance
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation (MCC) | voice:    (512) 338-3509
3500 West Balcones Center Drive                            | FAX:      (512) 338-3900
Austin, Texas 78759-6509   USA                             | internet: breland@mcc.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Followup-To: news.groups
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 13 Nov 1992 12:37 EST  

In article <BxnGHn.F8u@uunet.uu.net>, maurer@nova.stanford.edu 
     (Michael Maurer) writes...

>This is a formal Request for Discussion on the creation of a new newsgroup
>called "comp.soft-sys.matlab" (not moderated).

I support it.  I subscribe to the Matlab Mailing List and the info isn't
coming as often as a frequent user might want.  We also have lots of good
Matlab stuff around here.

Someone pass the word about this group to newsgroups sci.engr and 
sci.engr.control, where Matlab is mentioned from time to time.

RG
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: "BAD" music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:49:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.160617.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (St.  
Elmo's Fire) writes:
> In article <1992Nov7.214311.2554@metrosoft.com>, gvh@metrosoft.com  
(Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
> > I and a number of other people have suggested (and no one responds to  
> > these postitive suggestions) that the guideline should be that subject  
> > lines for discussions and votes should DIRECTKY state what existing  
> > newsgroups they would affect. Is this too difficult? At least it's a  
> > suggestion.
> > 
> > I can't imagine a valid reason for a "no" response to this suggestion.
> 
> 	Because it's an absurd suggestion.  Reorgs involve many groups; as  
Rich
> has said, simply indicating four of the five votes in the  
rec.music.makers.*
> reorg would have required a subject line of 138 characters.  Why a  
subject line
> that long is a bad idea is an exercise left to the reader.
> 
I don't think it's absurd to at least indicate the hierarchy that the  
group is in. Rec.music.synth was NOT in rec.music.makers.* but it WAS in  
rec.music.*.

> 	Perhaps you're suggesting one CFV per vote?  Then there would have  
been
> five CFVs posted to each affected group, and people would be screaming  
about
> having to wade through them all.  Catch-22.
> 
Agreed, but there must be a better way than what we've got. Let's discuss  
it.

> 	Face it.  Choosing not to read a CFV in a group is equivalent to
> choosing not to vote.  Choosing not to vote is equivalent to voluntarily  
giving
> up any moral basis for post-vote whining.  (Your right to whine is, of  
course,
> guaranteed; doing so with no basis, however, is justifiably ignored.)
> 
I think I have a basis to discuss what I see as a problem with the current  
process. I'm not whining. Other people (many of whom haven't even read  
rec.music.synth) have noticed this conversation and have suggested that we  
take a look at the problem (do I have to dig up the articles and quote  
them?).

> 	An alternate, workable suggestion would be to require CFVs  
containing
> more than one proposal to contain "reorg" or "multiple votes" in the  
subject
> line.

I'd be up for any suggestion that makes the process better than it is and  
helps inform people in a more direct fashion. Perhaps "RFD: reorg  
involving rec.music.* groups" would have been a better choice.

> -- 
> "We want playmates we can own."--Jules Feiffer on marriage                     
>   
> elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: C96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.singaporean
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 12:48:25 CET

In article <1992Nov6.061354.1583@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>
mfltan@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Man) writes:
 
>>Mar Siew Cheong (escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg) wrote:
>> Proposed Newsgroup's Name
>> =========================
>>   soc.culture.singaporean
>>
> Its high time to have a group for the Singaporeans. I support the idea.
> However, I think the proposed newsgroups's name should be
> "soc.culture.singapore". Easier to call.
 
If you just want a group for yourself and your fellows, create a local one
(shouldn't be too difficult in a country of your size). If there are
reasons beyond simple nationalism, you would better explain them.
   I don't see the need for a separate net-clogger. Hongkong, Singapore
and Macau might well be kept in one group.
Xref: sparky news.groups:20786 rec.music.synth:18039 news.admin.policy:216
From: pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu (Patrick Robinson)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: rec.music.makers.*: chronology and comments from the vote-taker.
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:46:32 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups

Rich Kulawiec writes
> Followups have been directed to news.groups.

And I just undirected them.

> If these people
> felt that the "Subject" line on the CFV was misleading, why did they
> not post an article to rec.music.synth *while the vote was in progress*
> that looked like this:
> 
> 	From: A concerned person
> 	Subject: IMPORTANT vote affecting rec.music.synth in progress

Oh,  I dunno... maybe we're just stoopid.  I thought the Subject: line
*was* misleading.  I read it out if curiosity, and voted NO when I discovered
the insidious rec.music.synth renaming proposal.  BTW, I abstained, out of
courtesy, from the proposals which affected groups which didn't affect me.

I did not write a letter to My Congressman, as you suggest, because I
(incorrectly, it appears) figured the renaming would NOT pass. based on my
knowledge of rec.music.synth participants (define that as you will).  I
didn't consider that the participants in news.anal.retentive would be voting
for the renaming of my group.

Consider me better informed now.  In the future, I will Raise A Big Stink
when I see this kind of thing.

Now, where'd I put my nice little USENET cozy...?

-Patrick
 pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.philosophy.objectivism
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:04:19 GMT

In article <Bx9w7v.997@uunet.uu.net> amc@cics.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello)
 writes:

   >I propose the unmoderated group
   >talk.philosophy.objectivism

  This is an old topic. Some time ago a proposal to create sci.philosophy.
objectivism was voted down, whereas a proposal for talk.philosophy.
objectivism apparently passed, although the group was never created for
(partly) obscure reasons.



Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: hildebra@math.wisc.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:40:41 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
> CFVs are only posted to news.groups, news.announce.newgroups, and those groups
> affected by the vote. How could it be made clearer? "CFV! This means *YOU*!"?

	Wait a second. I'm not entirely sure this is always true. I'm fairly
certain that I've seen CFV cross-posted to groups which would not be
affected directly, but might have people who are interested in
participating. For example the CFV for rec.arts.sf.starwars was crossposted
to rec.arts.sf.misc and maybe even sf.tv. Nothing happened to those groups
but the crosspost was made to get people's attention. So if the CFV said
nothing about the renaming in the subject line I don't think it's
unreasonable for people to think that it was there only to attract some more
people who might be interested.

	Once again, this is reproving what happened last summer in the
sf-lovers fiasco. Including renamings with splits is a very risky business
and should probably be handled seperately.

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA			hildebra@math.wisc.edu
"Join that political superman, secret agent double 0 zero, George Bosh
in his new film, 'Never Just Say No Again.'"      Off The Cuff, R.I.P.
"Did everyone buy that? Good, 'cause I didn't"   The Proof By Snow Job
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mmeltzer@wam.umd.edu
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.unicycles
Reply-To: mmeltzer@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:11:09 GMT

In article <BxnGI1.FCA@uunet.uu.net> terry@santafe.edu writes:
:-> This is a formal Request for Discussion on the creation of a new 
:-> newsgroup called "rec.unicycles" (not moderated).

I think this would be great, especially for us jugglers who want to learn  
how to ride them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
			mmeltzer@wam.umd.edu is

			     Marc Meltzer
		      President of The Meltz Inc
	 "Our job is to play games.  Our hobby is to consult."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: To keep the r.m.s rename is _not_ elitist (was Re: *BAD*...)
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:14:02 GMT

rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
>For the record, I am opposed to a revote since there has been no valid reason
>to invalidate the group; I am sorry people did not take the 30 seconds required
>to read the CFV and vote but that still doesn't change the fact that the vote
>is valid; 

But it does. The spirit of the guidelines suggests that people's preferences
are valid. Whether or not people expressed those preferences in the right
way is not relavent. The CFV was unclear. To me, the vote is invalid.

>If a revote somehow comes about, I will vote FOR the new group even
>though I voted against the renaming the first time. 

Thanks for your support. Just let everyone else tell you what is right,
and you'll be a fine cadre member. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

    In a meadow, the King shot an arrow at a deer but missed.  "Bravo!" a
    Fool shouted. The King became angry and snapped "So! You're making fun
         of me, eh? I am going to punish the life out of you!"
     "My word of praise was not for His Excellency, but for the deer."
Xref: sparky news.groups:20912 rec.arts.poems:11075
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: where is the RESULT of voting on rec.arts.poems.urdu? / Marek
Date: 10 Nov 1992 01:24:21 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.201358.17616@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Marek Lugowski" <marek@moose.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>According to Ali's Call for Votes for rec.arts.poems.urdu, the
>voting was to end on 4 November, the minimum 21 day period stipulated
>by the Guidelines (see news.announce.newusers, "How to Create a Newsgroup").
>
>It is a full week later and no RESULT has been posted anywhere, with
>news.announce.newgroup the official, moderated, place to look.

                                      ^^^^^^^^^

He may have already sent the results to the moderator who does have other 
things to do than to instantly turn vote results. Wait for the next major
set of postings for news.announce.newgroups and see if the results are there;
if they are not, then bitch about it! There have been no postings since the
deadline expired so just be patient.
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:26:18 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>person that posted the RFD's and CFV's should have taken the time to write  
>>a subject line that indicated that r.m.s was affected.
>Evidence to the contrary has been posted.  Should the subject line
>have indicated also that alt.guitar.bass and alt.guitar.tab were
>affected?  Readers of those groups have not spoken up to complain.

Straw Man. alt.* groups don't get renamed...you can't rmgroup them properly.
Alt is not usenet (as YOU have said). 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

   There is no greater calamity for a nation or individual
                 than not finding contentment in one's sufficiency.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Subject: Re: Islam and Ahmadiyya -- Enough
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:20:13 GMT

randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:

>[Dislaimer:  I neither know very much nor have anything against either
>Islam or Ahmadiyya.]

>It would seem to me that the discussion of a new group has evolved
>into a religious debate.  I would respectfully suggest that it be
>moved to one of the religious groups; it does not belong here.

>Thank you.

>-- 
>Joshua E. Randall                       randall@minerva.cis.yale.edu

Sir, this is one of the main reasons for the demand of such a
newsgroup. Soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya would be form for such
debates. Ahmadiyya Islam is a topic which interests people from
all religious backgrounds.

Sincerely,

-- 
Nabeel A. Rana
rana@rintintin.colorado.edu
LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE.
________________________________________________________________
From: merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Islam and Ahmadiyya -- Enough
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:59:27 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1dap0oINNi2j@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
> [Dislaimer:  I neither know very much nor have anything against either
> Islam or Ahmadiyya.]
> 
> It would seem to me that the discussion of a new group has evolved
> into a religious debate.  I would respectfully suggest that it be
> moved to one of the religious groups; it does not belong here.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- 
> Joshua E. Randall                       randall@minerva.cis.yale.edu

I agree!  Either take a vote, with the name *AS IS*, or change the name
and then take a vote.  Its useless to point out discrimation when we
disagree on the fundamentals and you have not been able to prove
any such discriminations.  Also, the sri moderators cannot justify
what Islam means to you.  I suggest soc.religion.ahmediyya for a name.
However, if the stand is on the original name, then take a vote and 
leave the rhetoric of what Pakistan did, or what Bhutto did, or
what being an Ahmediyya is, to be discussed in the newsgroup.  I
have serious doubts on what is considered applicable to your
newsgroup since it is to be moderated, but it is up to 
you how it is to be moderated.  Also, stating the sri group needs
an Ahmediyya person in there, is like saying they need 70 other
persons to supposedly represent the other so-called sects of Islam.


Islam asks us to follow Prophet Muhammed (SAW).  Islam asks us to follow
the majority.  Islam asks us not to introduce new things in the religion.
Ahmediyya group CANNOT belong under Islam.

Ms. Merchant

P.S.  Will the annoncement for voting be made only in this newsgroup
or will other interested newsgroup also get an announcement such as SRI.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca ()
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.frp.campaign
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:00:06 GMT

In article <n0db1t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>On <Nov 04 07:34>, fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) wrote to All;
>Actually I agree with you about the utility of the proposed group.  But
>with 15,000 or so BBSs worldwide (yes, worldwide), FidoNet is not a local
>group...  Frankly I suspect from his comments that the AD&D echo may have
>limited distribution, or you'd think it'd be feeding time at the zoo in 
>nothing flat. 

There are many Fido echos devoted to RPGs, three specificly for different
aspects of AD&D (the echo I moderate is the main echo, the two sub echos
are for Basic and Expert D&D).  The Fido AD&D echo ranges from Texas,
to Ontario, to Germany, to many other places unknown (I live in Ontario, and
have corresponded through snailmail with people from Texas and Germany who
read the echo).


> I currently contribute to several "storyboards", which are 
>sort of like what he describes save that there is usually only one or two 
>"campaigns" per echo, all with plot generated mostly by the participants, 
>not the "GM" who merely serves to try and keep things on the theme, 
>whatever it might be.  And each of these is kept to a very limited 
>distribution; maybe 20 bbss at most!
>
There is a specific campaign net called "Vervan's Gaming Net" which deals
with only RPG campaigns.

>Incidentally, contrary to what seems to be the opinion of a lot of the
>contributors to this group, Fido, being a hobby net runs heavily to college
>educated members, especially those who are sysops. And the sysops, running
>things out of their own pockets as they do are, if anything, more sensitive
>to bandwidth problems than Usenet, where it has not been found necessary to
>designate one individual in each widely distributed newsgroup to be 
>responsible for keeping contributors on topic.
>
Though my proposal refers to Fido only as an example to show that their
is interest in the type of newsgroup I am proposing, thanks for defending
it from the slander I have seen in some posts.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: lidz@quads.uchicago.edu (adam lidz)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.shakespeare
Reply-To: lidz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:37:29 GMT

The point behind rec.arts.shakespeare is the Shaespeare is SO different, and 
so unique that it is almost imposible to cover acting it in rec.arts.theatre 
(Not to mention that r.a.t is almost all discussions of musicals), and of courseShakespeare should have NOTHING to do in rec.arts.books, given that he never
wrote a book in his life!  (He wrote plays and Sonnets, no books)

Most importantly if that noone wants to read extra messages.