HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: An introduction
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 03:44:15 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Nov9.005227.6886@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <Nov08.110936.35528@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
>arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) writes:
>
>>>Pro-Choice                Anti-Roe                     - E. Elizabeth Bartley
>>>            Abortions should be safe, legal, early, and rare.
>>>
>>>Cthulhu for President -- when you're tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils.
>
>>Hmmm.  "Yep.  I do beleive we know each other.  Or at least, I remember this
>>sig line..."
>
>>Big Al.  The second symptom of old age...
>
>I'm afraid I don't remember you....  Maybe you saw some posts in
>talk.abortion that had been crossposted to another group?

Oh, certainly.  Unless you posted where I was, which I doubt.  It was the 
'Cthulhu for president' what stuck in my mind.  Too bad you don't remember
my sig lines, but I've been kinda off my stuff of late.

Big Al.  And not funny, either.

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory...
Reply-To: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:09:11 GMT

     I cannot refute Michael's arguments, and I'm not sure that it's useful to
try.  I think our disagreement hinges on our models of 'representation'.  I
suggested that geography once made more sense than it does now as a basis for
representation; Michael's response suggests that perhaps it never made any
particular sense.
     I think the issue revolves around proportional representation; around the
distinction between assemblies of representatives of districts/wards/precincts/
constituencies, and less representative and more "professional" models like
senates and governors.  The latter 'represent' their broad base of constituents
in a very different way from the former.
     Legislative assemblies are an attempt at 'government by the people', under
the recognition that it is impractical to actually convene the entire
population.  This is *why* the Constitution gives to Congress the powers that
it does.  Senates play a different role; as "elder statesmen" or "guardians",
their purpose is to represent wisdom and experience and temper mere popularity.
Ideally, Congress was intended to attempt to do popular things, and the Senate
to make sure that popular things got done only if they were also right things.
And the executive branch?  Well, I'm pretty sure that the Imperial Presidency
was *not* what the founding fathers had in mind....

                                      Mentor the Sage

-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: What is Cyberpunk?
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:01:44 GMT

After being nudged to say something (anything!) about this subject...

I think Mentor got it pretty good in a historic and analytical sense.
Lots of folks find it easy to write about the cyber side of it all...
"Long live Cyberia!" after all.  Jason got a lot of the 'cyber' side of it
and, I think, touches on the 'punk' very well in his stories.  As Randolph
put it, it doesn't quite fit in with the Positive Image of America that
the last presidential election promised that the nation would become.

But...  A few words from my sponsor...

					"Grasp the Rose firmly." 

"It's better to burn out than fade away."

	"Attitude is Everything"

				"Style over Substance"

		"Life on the Edge"

						"The Future is Disposable"

A girl, looking bored, says to the camera, "Punk ain't just clothin' 'r
Do." She suddenly focusses on the lense, "It's an attitude."  The camera
picks out the ring through the side of her nose, the stud in her cheek,
and her black laquered nails running through the neon-green waffle-cut-
to-mohawk.

One night, I'm trying to sleep in a hotel room.  I hear the typical noises
of drunk folks staggering through the small parking lot at the back of the
building.  The crash of a stick against the garbage bin, the rattle of a
rock being kicked, raucous laughter, and the glug of a bottle.  They
mutter a bit, and "A Rebel..." one guy spits out, "I'm a funkin'
Reeeee--bel..." he sings, and then suddenly stops.  His footsteps stop
too, and then he laughs a laugh that is almost a sob, "I'm a funkin' Rebel
without a JOB!!"  And they all go off laughing into the night, for a moment
accompanied by the sound of broken glass.

Don't think I'll ever forget that.

Punk, for me, is both the negative and positive mixture of the Rebel.  The
pain, that laughter, that rage and that despair are all mixed up into it.
Add cyberware and it only gets more intense.  The Machine melded with
Human, against a Society so huge, so ponderous, so inane and so blind that
it would roll over everyone, anyone daring to be Different.  Often a
Society even more inhuman than the machine become human.  Part of that
story is sometimes *having* that Rebel get squashed.  Often only to get up
again and go in, knowing they're doomed and laughing into the teeth of
that doom and their own fear and despair.

Ultraviolence and the dark, coolness of data flowing through the soul...

That's the gut feel of 'What is Cyberpunk?" for me.  :)

It doesn't fit all the literature.  It doesn't fit all the analysis.  

So what.  Big deal.  ;)

Tis' just my gut feel and what I create with.

"Art is what you can get away with."

[Most of the quotes courtesy of Carl Rigney]
-- 
Liralen Li           | "Looking down on empty streets, all she can see
aka Phyllis Rostykus |  are the dreams made solid, the dreams made real"
li@inigo.Data-IO.com |                       - Peter Gabriel, _So_
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus)
Subject: Re: Gasoline taxes
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:15:21 GMT

In article <1d9sqpINN5gs@gap.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>While they don't let them exceed the speed limit, in Los Angeles they already
>DO give busses their own lanes on freeways.

Yup, same up here in Seattle, they get their own lane.  Seattle has
probably one of the best bus systems in the nation, but then Seattle and
Bellevue's populations are pretty much concentrated around their city
centers, one on each side of Lake Washington.  Seattle would work well for
a light rail system with most of the commuting just being back and forth
across Lake Washington.  The busses are plentiful, run on time, and are
fairly inexpensive because so many people use them.  But the lines only
run through and to the main population centers.  Out where our house is
there is only one bus that runs once an hour for two runs in the morning
and two runs in the evening, and only in the direction of rush hour's
normal progress, which is towards the cities.  It's great where people are
packed, but, expectedly, bad where there is no density.  I *think* that
Metro is one of the few bus systems in the country that breaks even.

There are some businesses up here that *give* bus passes to their employees,
because it is impossible to increase parking in the city center.  They have
special lots and spaces for those that carpool.  Some businesses even pay
their employees a bonus if they don't drive.  Seattle is rather nice about
getting people to use the system that works.  And it really does.  With the
bottleneck of the bridges, during rush hour, it usually takes about 45
minutes to get from the Eastside to the City if one drives, but only 25
minutes by bus or carpool, if they use the carpool/bus lanes.

I used to use the bus system in L.A., and it was atrocious.  The biggest
problem is that they have to cover so much area with so little density
that it just never made any sense.  It was usually a half mile to a mile
walk to any particular bus line, and then there were so few people using
them that the number of busses was really low and with that, the schedules
were horrendously ragged.
-- 
Liralen Li           | "Looking down on empty streets, all she can see
aka Phyllis Rostykus |  are the dreams made solid, the dreams made real"
li@inigo.Data-IO.com |                       - Peter Gabriel, _So_
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Is there a Doctor in the house?
Date: 7 Nov 1992 06:46:10 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1dfeh3INN1nu@gap.caltech.edu>, lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals) writes:
>Based on this evidence, in my professional opinion, B'Naal has probably set an
>invalid forwarding address on MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU.

Further investigation show this, indeed, to be the case, and it's a lulu.  It
seems that on MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU B'Naal has his mail forwarded to his account
on BASHFUL.U.WASHINGTON.EDU.  Of course, on BASHFUL.U.WASHINGTON.EDU, he's got
it forwarded to his account on MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU.  So if you try sending
mail to his return address it takes the route:
	You => CARSON.U.WASHINGTON.EDU => MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU =>
		BASHFUL.U.WASHINGTON.EDU => MAX => BASHFUL => MAX => BASHFUL =>
		MAX => BASHFUL => MAX => BASHFUL => MAX => BASHFUL => MAX =>
		BASHFUL => MAX => BASHFUL => You
since BASHFUL eventually decides enough is enough and returns the mail to the
sender.  Normally I'd send him e-mail pointing out his mistake, but that
wouldn't do much good this time, I'm afraid.
From: S.S.B.Glover@bradford.ac.uk (SSB GLOVER)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Gosh, is it Guy Fawke's Night already?
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:51:43 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 92909131@ccw310
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

... And in staggers Steve, with a barrel of Coach House Brewery
Gunpowder Dark Mild for Mike to stash on the bar top (X-transport tends to
ruin the flavour of oak barrelled beer...)

It's Lovely stuff, had some yesterday.

Steve

ObToast: To Guido Fox. The only man EVER to enter the palace of westminster
with honest intentions ;-)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mary Branscombe)
Subject: No subject 
Reply-To: maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:45:00 +0000

Hurray!!!!
"Hello!! Hurray!!
sorry to be so noisy, but ohmi!"
An indistinct figure puts her head around the door then walks in 
rotating as she  tries to gaze at all of the place at once." Hi Mike! 
Hi Ignatz! Hi anyone else that remembers me. I'm Mary, I was here 
nearly -ohmi- 2 years ago, when I was doing an MSc in IKBS/AI at Uni 
of Essex. Now I live in Bath (I entirely agree, the A4 to Bristol is 
a nightmare, I live next to it) where the parking charges in the city 
are more expensive than anywhere in Europe! I'm a writer turngin into 
an editor and I'm so glad to be back. I've been working on a decent 
way of reading/posting and I have spent *sooo* long getting it to 
work."
She gazes down at the large envelope that she's standing on" you *do* 
work, don't you?" she asks and prods it with a toe. It curls up at 
one corner, releasing a flurry of dust. "Whoops, sorry, technology is 
never on our side"
"My MSc? Yeah! I got a distinction! Thank you for asking! Mike - I 
think it's too cold for a Sol, how about a nice glass of mulled wine? 
Thank you."
She wanders up to the line, waving at people excitedly
"To the complexities that are so wearing to live through - and to 
getting there in the end!"
crash-tinkle!
"Hello people! Hello Place"

+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| pending repairs.....                      |maryb@cix.compulink.co.uk |
|                                           |                          |
| under new management!                     |maryb@cix.compulink.uucp  |
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: keulen@possum.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Mike van Keulen)
Subject: Re: Gasoline taxes
Organization: Murdoch University
Date:  9 Nov 92 01:01:40 GMT

arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.211201.20151@data-io.com> li@Data-IO.COM (Phyllis Rostykus) writes:
>>S H L G Bisson writes:
>>
>>>"There's also what seems to be a fairly uniquely British concept that
>>>hasn't been mentioned here yet: the Park And Ride. 
>>
>>Actually, we have a *lot* of them around Seattle.

>"We have several in Denver, too.  Can't say as it caught on as much as in
>Seattle, but then again, our bus system is not a real popular thing."

Yup - we got 'em here in Western Australia a few years ago too.  Neat
idea, and works well with the sprawl of Perth.

Splash!

--
***************************** Michael van Keulen *************************** 
* Snail: School of BES - Biology         e-mail: keulen@murdoch.edu.au     *
*        Murdoch University              phone:  ++ 61 (09) 360-2843 (work)*
*        Murdoch WA 6150  AUSTRALIA              ++ 61 (09) 417-3902 (home)*
*************************** "To Love is to _LIVE_!" ************************
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory...
Date: 11 Nov 1992 04:34:14 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <RANDOLPH.92Nov10154157@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM>, randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz) writes:
="Michael, it occurs to me the that the various movements for black and
=Hispanic districts actually have a historic precedent in the emergence
=of Irish, Italian, and Jewish districts and politicians in older
=cities.  I think it may just be politics as usual.

Not quite.  It wasn't until 10 years or so ago that the U.S. Supreme Court
decided to make it the law of the land.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:27:40 -0500 
From: John Charles Fiala <jf2z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: John pipes up.

"Well, as I mentioned before, I'm hugely-horribly behind in this group.
I've been working my tail off, and although I enjoy having a job,
it's been taking up a lot of the time I used to use to read newsgroups.

"Just thought I'd remind you all that I'm here.  I'm kind of the 
opposite from a lurker:  I don't read, but I do post."

-john
Oh, no!  My account will be taken away on December 18th!  *sniff*sniff*
Until then, my email address is: jf2z@cmu.edu
After that, my email address is: bonapart@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
  We apologize for the Inconvenience.
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1992 13:07:59 -0500 
From: Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Economics and the Environment

	Bear listens to Beth as she comment about pollution and pollution
rights and such.  Actually there are alreadty these pollution rights in
place in a way and it drives the environmentalists crazy.  See there are
limit to how much pollution of different types that each type of plant
can put out.  So many tons of SO2 and NOx per year.  Now if there is a
plant that produces less than this due to more modern equipment,
stricter local regulations they can and do sell it to other places and
this is allowable.  
	This buying and selling of credits also exists in the laws for the CAFE
standards(Corperate Average Fuel Economy)  and as a result GM winds up
paying out big bucks to other car makers so it can continue to produce
the big gas guzzlers.

-I remember the the glory days when we sat with the king.
Dining on meh yams and washing it down with red rum.
ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: mss2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory...
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:14:58 GMT

In article <RANDOLPH.92Nov10154157@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM> randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz) writes:
>"Michael, it occurs to me the that the various movements for black and
>Hispanic districts actually have a historic precedent in the emergence
>of Irish, Italian, and Jewish districts and politicians in older
>cities.  I think it may just be politics as usual.  With women, of
>course, the situation is different; there may still be a parallel.  I
>think--maybe--that when a group finally emerges into the middle class
>and gains its own political voice (different from having the vote),
>there's a period when people want their own representatives & simply
>don't care how fair it is."

	"You may well be right.  If so, though, I wonder whether it
wasn't better to have it happen the old-fashioned way, with corruption
and graft and machine politics, rather than the current method.  Since
now it has to be given an intellectual justification rather than just
being a naked power grab-- which means that it's more insitutionalized
and harder to eliminate later.  Sort of like the reason that I tend to
consider a venal and self-aggrandizing tyrant preferable to one with a
Cause (e.g. theocracies, Marxist states, etc.)  The former will only
kill and imprison insofar as it's necessary to keep themselves rich
and in power-- the latter will do so in the interest of the Greater
Good, even if it's an inconvenience to themselves, with the result
that they're far more active in rooting out opposition.  Similarly, I
think that adding self-righteousness and an intellectual theory of
group rights to what was once simply a matter of demagoguery and
patronage may mean that our current situation is worse than the
earlier expression of the cycle-- especially since it will be harder
to abandon (whereas the old ethnic constituencies lost power as they
assimilated, the new ones may be institutionalized to the point that
they _can't_ assimilate).  But perhaps I'm just being pessimistic."

Michael

-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Indeed I tremble for my country
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 when I reflect that God is just."
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on
mss2@amber.uchicago.edu		    Virginia (1784)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: S.S.B.Glover@bradford.ac.uk (SSB GLOVER)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: More elections, a victory...
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:46:17 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 92909131@ccw310
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

**crash**

Another glass goes flying into the fireplace...

(you beat yours: our "Clause 28" got passed, but, thank ghods, got rendered
more or less unworkable by a very influential clique of (mainly bachelor)
old men who regularly dress up in wigs and robes and march through the
streets of London on their "special" day...

I refer of course, to Her Majesty's Judiciary.

They're not ALL lunatics, and I'd take them over parliament any day.)

Steve
(for any dissenters, do I really need to mention Pastor Niemoller?)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu (Lydia Uribe)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: A message from Feather
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:27:30 GMT
Organization: Claremont Shelter for Maladjusted Singers

I got the following from Feather when I responded to her long-delayed "can
anyone hear me?" posting (which took 5 days to reach my site):

>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 08:02 PST
>From: feath@agora.rain.com (Feather)
>Subject: Re: can anyone hear me?
>
>Please inform the callahaners of this time warp factor...  
>I am getting a lot of email from people who are happy that I am back
>though it ain't the case.
>They are not noticing the date discrepancy...
>That post actually predated my asking Thyra for help.
>
>-Feather

					Soprano

"You're more than beginning -- you're learning to fly;
 You feel like you're falling, but it passes in time...."
			"From Me to You", Janis Ian
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Soprano (Lydia M. Uribe)                      uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu |
| Claremont, CA                                  uribe@hmcvax.claremont.edu |
|           Cats, quilts and diving -- what more could anyone ask?          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: spider
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:16:21 GMT

kitten pops back....."i forgot to announce this...(must be because i'm
blonde :)  )....i personally delivered callahan hugs to spider and
jeannie robinson...

there will be a callahan story (about mary's place) in the
december/jan issue of astounding...an new callahans book is in the
offing and there is a third in the stardance set being written.

also, i got to hear spider sing "the drunkard's song"....and it was great.

but the BEST thing about the entire weekend was not hearing spider
talk or sing...it was watching HIS face while he listened to hal frank
sing 'green hills of earth'.

"and i pray for one last landing
on the globe that gave me birth.
to rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool green hills of earth."

kitten drains a quick glass...."to the masters" <crash!>


--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
"love is the wild card of existance"
                          rita mae brown

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pope@physics.su.OZ.AU (The Nightstalker)
Subject: The Nightstalker explains
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:57:28 GMT

"Ach, it seems if you have a view that is not entirely tolerant (religiously
incoherent seems prefered), then you need to watch your P's and Q's all the 
more.  Then again, maybe that is just how this place runs.  Alt.pedant maybe.
OK, my article should have been Christianity & Science.  Are all the toes that
were stepped on not so sore now?"

The Nightstalker sighs.

"A guava juice Mike, if you please."

The Nightstalker looks around the place and sighs to himself.  RL is so
much better he thinks, yet surely there is some value in being here.  He
thinks to himself.

'Intelligent discussion would be nice, something peaceful.'    

"But", says The Holy Spirit within, "You are who you are, called to be
that.  You cannot escape having you faith in The Father pervade all you
say and do, and that means not always being accepted.  But, you must
always love with the love of The Son, that led Him to die for all."

'Yes, to love, yet it is so hard when all you see is text on a screen.
Words can be so harsh, how can I help myself to use the right ones, to
convey the message of God's love and not to harm the ears of those who
hear?'

"Not all will recieve, some will harden, some soften.  Just love, to
say nothing would not be loving, to judge would not be loving."

'It is as you say'.

The Nightstalker looks around the place and smiles.

"To the place."
--

Mick Pope,                                          I      "On Christ the
Sir Frank Packer Dept of Theoretical Physics,   ----+----   solid rock I
School of Physics, University of Sydney,            I       stand, all other
Sydney, Australia, 2006.  (02) 692 3241             I       ground is sinking
                                                    I       sand." - C. Wesley
                                                    I 

And the comment for today is:  

          
"I'm going to sleep.  Wake me if if there is anything else we can
             screw up tonight" -James T. Kirk, Star Trek VI
Newsgroups: alt.callahans