HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: delatizk@bbn.com (Jonathan Delatizky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books about, or set in, Venice and Florence?
Date: 28 Jan 93 20:42:00 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

E.M. Forster:	A Room with a View
Jane Langton:	The Dante Game

Some of Wouk's "The Winds of War" (or perhaps it's the sequel, "War and
Remembrance") takes place in Siena.  I'm not sure whether it's worth reading
the rest of this for the bits about Siena.



Jonathan Delatizky  *  Bolt Beranek & Newman  * Beauty waits in ambush for us.
delatizky@bbn.com   *    10 Moulton Street    *  If we are sensitive, we will
{...}!bbn!delatizky *   Cambridge MA 02138    *  feel it in the poetry of all
+1 617 873 3366     *  FAX: +1 617 873 2205   * languages. [Jorge Luis Borges]
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25982 talk.politics.soviet:10646
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 20 Jan 93 21:18:29 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <vzhivov.727063752@cunews>, vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
> In <JMC.93Jan14171247@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
# #How about dating the violation of human rights from the 1918 killing
# #of the Tsar's infant daughter in 1918.  It established the principle
# #that people who had committed no crime could be killed for reasons
# #of state.
# 
# If you worry about human rights too much you have no business being a
# revolutionary. Also a beauty from Uncle Joe (that's Stalin for the
# un-initiated) in response to the second sentence: "to make an omelette
# you have to break a few eggs." But, seriously, nothing annoys me more
# than people projecting their Western liberal values onto events, times
# and places where such concepts are totally alien (as in Russia of
# 1917-18). The Bolsheviks were worried about holding on to power and
# winning a civil war, and had no time to consult their John Locke
# Handbook about dealing with deposed monarchs. The French Revolution
# offered a much better precedent.

In which case, you would think they would have learned from what
happened to Robespierre, and not started that down that bloody path.

# #Incidentally, consider the Rolling Stones' song _Sympathy for the Devil_.
# #It has in it the line "I killed the Tsar and his ministers".  In fact
# #the ministers almost all escaped.  The Rolling Stones lost their nerve
# #in their sympathy for the devil when they didn't make it "I killed
# #the Tsar and his family".  A little creative revision of the wording
# #could have effectively made it, "I killed the Tsar and his one-and-a-half
# #year old daughter".
# OB#--
# #John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
# 
# Oh, my heart bleeds. The Tsar and his family had the good or bad luck
# to be Romanovs - and this made them symbols and threats. And before
# you get all teary-eyed about how Nicholas was a "warm-hearted, family
# man" remember that to a large extent he and his equally moronic wife,
# Alexandra, were to a large extent responsible for their own fate. Just
# recall the Russo-Japanese War, "Bloody Sunday", dismissal of Witte,
# intrigues against Stolypin, the whole sordid Rasputin affair, the
# half-baked flirtings with reform, and just the whole stupidity of the
# 22 year reign. Well, it felt good to get that off my chest.
# 
#                                                   Vladimir

You seem to have not read Prof. McCarthy's posting very carefully.
His point was NOT "poor Tsar Nicholas" but the daughter who had
NOTHING to do with the running of Russia.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:46:43 GMT

John McCarthy writes:

>Can anyone think of other examples of well-regarded novels, poems,
>or stories expressing views of which the writer later wrote the
>opposite?  I suppose Pablo Neruda might provide similar cases.
>
>Henry VIII wrote anti-protestant stuff before he turned against
>the Pope, but this wasn't read later, and he was a politician.

	The early and late Dos Passos, although I don't think he ever
disavowed the early works. 

	Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tommy Che Vorst)
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:36:25 GMT

>In article <C1DCJo.C2E@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:

>>"400 poetry anthologies were fed into a computer and voila -- the 500
>>most anthologized English poems rose to the top.  A revealing snapshot
>>of one aspect of Wesern civ, even including a list of the poems in
>>order of popularity. (... is Number 1.)"

>>Can you guess?  I couldn't; but the winner is neither trivial nor
>>inappropriate.

My vote goes to the wonderfully-metered "The Tyger" by literature's
favourite (although not mine) lunatic, William Blake.

Heard on a Philadelphia street corner:  "Yeah, yeah, _I'll_ tell you what
immortal hand or eye!  I got your eye right here....Here's your eye!"

Back to the thesis,

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Tommy (aka Guy Gadbois)                     Grad Studies, UofM
                email:  tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca
        "I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight."
                              - the late, great Graham Chapman
My opinions are solely those of my pet bear; you wanna argue
with her, go ahead.
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book-title modesty
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:43:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>Just the opposite... good literature gets carried with title visible -
>I'm met some interesting people that way.  It's the Danielle Steele's
>and Dean Koontz's that are hidden... (Faulkner's _Absalom, Absalom_
>is currently on display.)
>kate

+---------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
And it's not just the visibility in transport that's of concern--there's the
problem of walking up to the conter and plopping your selections down in front
of the merchant in the point of purchase.

It's bad enough when the book in question is by a honest-to-gosh real writer
who's guilty of nothing worse than allowing to publisher to garb his or her
work in gaudy rags--like my copy of Anthony Burgess' _The Kingdom of the
Wicked_ complete with cover depicting languid, bare-breasted Roman courtesan
beneath the raised gilt lettering of the title--but it is ignominity indeed
to have to fess up in public to buying some sorrid little novel by a
(literarily speaking) nobody.

I'll admit to imbedding the worst of these (usually a science fiction novel,
or at least something off the science fiction rack.  like Harlan Ellison's
_Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled_ [couple in mid-coitus against
background of stars] or Phillip Jose Farmer's (writing as Kilgore Trout)
_Venus on the Half-Shell_ [nekkid female standing in giant shell in vague
imitation of Sandro Botticelli {or rather, one of his paintings} with
heart-shaped silver codpiece and a brace of silver stars mysteriously
adhering to the really good bits of her pair of Satan's dumplings, being
mildly fondled by a lad wearing a patch over one eye, a fishbowl over his
head, leather knee-boots and red underbritches with gold stars on 'em.
mysteriously, the cover proclaims that the book is `Available for the
first time without lurid covers!' which leads, of course, to the reader
asking, `Where?']) in amid (if you've lost track of the sentence, as I
did in writing it, feel free to go back at this point to pick it up again)
my `serious' purchases, as if the wonky cover art will seem more tasteful
rubbing elbows with stately volumes penned by blokes with proper English
writer-names with random initials and superfluous `E's and `U's thrown
piecemeal, like W. Somerset Maugham, Graham Greene, P.G. Wodehouse, u.s.w.








-SubGenius
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: _Halo_
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:12 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

William Smith writes...
>Finally, I was struck by an instruction coding technique used by Halo's
>main computer Aleph.  It reminded me of the beginning of Genesis in the
>Bible:  "In the beginning was the Word".  The coding sort of kicks
>everything off.

+---------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------+
I think you're confusing your Berasiths and your logoses.

In fact, I'm sure of it.













-SubGenius


Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:7448 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:8959 rec.arts.disney:8859
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Disney and CAPPS
From: larryg@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Larry Greenfield)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:41:12 PST
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) writes:

> larryg@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Larry Greenfield) writes:
> 
> >say, I am a traditionalist when it comes to animation, but I don't really 
> >mind the use of CAPPS. I think something similar should be used for TV 
> >animation... there's just so much ink and paint to be done. In the short 
> >term, it will cost more (since Asian labor is very cheap per cel, I 
> >know), but in the long run, studios that put out enough product will be 
> >self-sufficient.
> 
> Hanna-Barbera wrote a computer ink and paint system some years ago. I presume
> they`re still using it, as I recently read an article about them porting from
> some fairly old machine to a Sun.
> 
> 
> 							Steve Taylor
> 							steve@fulcrum.oz.au

Really?  So HB is using computer ink&paint too? Great!  If anyone has 
any more info on it, please post!  thanks Steve!@
:::::Larry:::::

:::::larryg@batpad.lgb.ca.us::::: // :::::Larry Greenfield:::::
::::::::Just your average modeming Classical Violinist:::::::::
:::::::::::Using a 6809-based Tandy Color Computer 3:::::::::::
From: Corey_Lynn_Nelson@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Name this cartoon...PLEASE!!!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 12:59:54 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan26.031057.25198@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

By the way, does anyone KNOW how to get ahold of TWICE UPON A TIME?
 
- corey_lynn_nelson@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: The Man Who Planted Trees
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:03:24 GMT

In article <C1Iv3x.GuL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, parsytec@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian Upper - Invoice) writes:
> A few years ago, I saw the short "The Man Who Planted Trees" in one of the
> annual animation compilations (Int'l Tounee, Animation Celebration, etc.).
> Since then, I searched in vain for a copy of it on video.  The person I
> spoke to at The Whole Toon Catalog hadn't even heard of it.

Here's the address, from the back cover of the tape:
- DIRECT CINEMA LIMITED
  Post Office Box 10003
  Santa Monica, CA  90410
  Phone (213) 396-4774
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell))
Subject: Re: Why, Porky!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:42:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.084805.19743@husc3.harvard.edu> goodridg@husc8.harvard.edu (Andrew Goodridge) writes:
>>I just had an interesting flashback.  I distinctly recall seeing a piece of
>>animation wherein Porky Pig, *the* Porky Pig, says:
>>
>>"Oh, son of a b---son of a b---son of a b---son of a bitch!  [looks at 
>>camera]  Ha.  You didn't think I was gonna say it, did you?"
>
>Of course, "Son of a Bitch" isn't really considered all that risque'
>nowadays, so that piece of film keeps showing up in places.

Which would explain why I saw it on USA Network (late at night).
-- 
      | $000C35FA                  <>-----=------------------------=----=----<>
 VGR  | (1812 Overture)            | "The size of the brain is no measure of  |
      | I GIVE UP                  | its capacity."   - Mr. Jonathan Frisby   |
      | YOU MUST BE A  VIDEO WHIZ  <>-----=---------=------------------------<>
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:7428 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:8925 rec.arts.disney:8777
From: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Disney's "New Look": How?
Date: 21 Jan 93 08:33:00 GMT
Reply-To: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

To: lerouxm@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mark Leroux)

ML>Also, a few months ago, an employee from the Disney studio posted to
ML>the rec.arts.disney group and stated clearly that all cells were hand
ML>drawn and so were most of the backgrounds.  The BatB ballroom and TLM
ML>sailing ship were done by computer.

You don't "draw" cels. You draw the pencils. They are then xeroxed onto
a clear material (CELlulose acetate) and then painted, arranged,
photographed, etc. CAPS eliminates the cel, not the artist drawing the
frame.

Backgrounds (most anyway) continue to be painted.


 * SLMR 2.1a * No, Happy Smurf, that's not a bird - it's a missile!
From: dweissman@dftnic.gsfc.nasa.gov (WiseGuy)
Subject: Thundercats Ho!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. USA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:52:00 GMT

I can't seem to find a videotape of any episodes of the animated
'Thundercats' cartoon from 5 or 6 years back.
Anyone have ideas?
================================================================================
Dave Weissman - Corporate WAN/LAN Networking

AlliedSignal Technical Services Corp.   Email addresses:
One Bendix Road, Dept. 976              dweissman@dftnic.gsfc.nasa.gov
Columbia, Maryland 21045-1897           dweissman@bfec3.gsfc.nasa.gov
(410) 964-7909                    (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,P:GSFC,FN:DAVID,SN:WEISSMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: fjm001@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Eek! The Cat
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:16:54 GMT

I'm a new poster (but an old lurker), so I'll try
not to invite any flames.

I've noticed a couple of "Eek! The Cat" postings
and wanted to cast my vote for it as the pleasant
surprise of the season. It's got the right touch of
violence (well, I'm a 3 Stooges fan - so whattya expect)
and clever gags that make a rerun often as funny
as the first time I see it. Ren and Stimpy does this
too, since I usually see something that I missed the
first time.

Enough babbling. What I'm really curious about is someone
mentioned an article in "Newsweek" or some such that compared
the amiable "Eek!" to the great "Ren and Stimpy." I won't show
my preference now- for fear of bringing on the wrath of fans 
of either show. What I'd like to know is in what magazine and in
what issue was that article?

Thanks in advance for the info,

Floyd (as in "Pink")

P.S. Anyone else buy the "Eek!" poster over at K-Mart? It's cool.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:7483 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:9000 rec.arts.disney:8924
From: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Disney's "New Look": How?
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:09:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434
Reply-To: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney) 

To: eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen)

EB>In article <1jsu2m$j3o@agate.berkeley.edu>, murakami@ocf.berkeley.edu (Brand
EB>urakami) writes:
EB> > Oh, now I see the confusion.  The Goof Troop might be assisted with Amiga
EB> > but the Goof Troop is not animated at the Disney Studios.  Goof Troop and
EB> > every other current Disney cartoon series are commissioned out to other
EB> > studios.  I can't recall which studios does which, but if this is the sou
EB> > of all the Amiga fanatics' claim to being a part of Disney animation then
EB>,
EB> > it's true there is some use.  But at the Disney Studios, they use Macinto
EB> > for pencil tests.

EB>Know why?  Pencil tests are in black and white.

Also: I think Tad Stones and the other directors and storyboarders are
going to be surprised when they hear they don't work at Disney.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Portions of this message have been pre-recorded.
        
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:7544 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:9088 rec.arts.disney:9042
From: rcook@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Robert Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Disney and CAPPS
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:50:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu

In article <1993Jan26.004320.28255@clipper.ingr.com> kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
>I have a friend who is an animator on The Simpsons down in L.A. He actually
>saw some of the artwork for The Thief and the Cobbler before the project
>was apparently canned. All he could say was it was the most incredible
>thing he ever saw. He also said it even put Aladdin/Beauty and the Beast
>to shame. But then again, if I got to work on a project for 20 years, I
>would expect nothing less.

I have not seen an *animated* sequence of The Thief and the Cobbler,
but I've seen samples of the artwork.  It's nice, stylish, and very
detailed, but I wouldn't say that it puts Disney features "to
shame."  I expect that the animation will be very good, but the
character design is not very appealing, IMHO.  Nevertheless, I've
been waiting to see it--it was sad to learn that it has been in such
financial trouble.  Warners should reconsider--the project looks
promising, and not as expensive as many may think--but I don't think
that will happen.


- Robert Cook
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: johnc@porsche.cs.rpi.edu (John Colasante)
Subject: Re: Disney's "New Look": How
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Computer Science, Troy NY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:10:53 GMT


[stuff deleted...]
      Not exactly true.  In traditional animation, the moving part may be
   on one cel, the not-moving part on a second, behind the first.  The
   thickness of the top cel is just great enough to cause a color
   difference between the moving and non-moving parts, if they were made
   with the same paints -- and that's what you're talking about.
[stuff deleted...]
 
Hmm, but that's not the point here. Consider a background painted with
watercolor or pastel, as most are. No matter how many cel levels are
used and how much care is taken to use tinting to match colors between
cel levels, the animation will not match the background. Its a matter of
texture.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
John Colasante		  		johnc@porsche.cs.rpi.edu

Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.disney,alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: Toon gloves, coloring
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:07:29 GMT
Organization: MegaCorp Central Complex

rcorns@husky1.stmarys.ca writes:

>They wear gloves as a tribute to the fact that their human creators have
>to wear white cotton gloves when inking/painting or otherwise handling the
>animation cels. The gloves prevent fingerprints from getting into the
>shot.

That's a nice theory, but is there any proof?  Like, a quote or somp'n?
-- 
"What kind of place is this?"    | Emru Townsend  | emru@cam.org 
"Looks like one of them gay Arab | Montreal, Que. | switch@bix.com 
 biker sushi joints."            | (514) 932-7145 | Fido: 1:167/133
 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:7530 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:9065 rec.arts.disney:8999
From: wolf@cs.mcgill.ca (Paul McNabola)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Why, Porky!
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:45:47 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1993Jan23.030850.10787@wam.umd.edu> vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell)) writes:
>I just had an interesting flashback.  I distinctly recall seeing a piece of
>animation wherein Porky Pig, *the* Porky Pig, says:
>
>"Oh, son of a b---son of a b---son of a b---son of a bitch!  [looks at 
>camera]  Ha.  You didn't think I was gonna say it, did you?"
>
>This was for real;  real WB animation, voiced by Mel Blanc.  What I want to
>know is, does anyone recall exactly where this is from?

This was specially created for an "out-takes" reel from Warners.
Back when this was made, these reels from real films were popular, and 
the animation studio got into the act.
I believe Mel Blanc mentioned it in his autobiography, but im not 100%
sure if he did or I read it somewhere else.
But I am 100% sure of the story behind the clip's creation.
----------
Paul McNabola         wolf@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca

"Always available, never free" ---Buck Godot
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: ig65@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: NEW TRANS-FORMERS CARTOON
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:43:50 GMT

In article <3899.802.uupcb@meaddata.com>, paul.gunton%theweb@meaddata.com (Paul Gunton)  writes:
> Does anybody know if there is/are any new plans on making another
> Trans-formers cartoon series???
> 
> If so, please tell me....I know about the Trans-Formers Generation 2...
> 
> Paul Gunton
>                                                                         
I too have heard of Transformers Generation 2, and am interested in any kind of
information that i can get on it.
-Chris Palomares
ig65@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
"A man should live forever or die trying."
From: blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: BTAS: The Mechanic
Keywords: BTAS
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:29:53 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime) writes:

> Well, so-so, but it sure is nice to see a new episode every once in a while.
> I give them credit for picking up some of the more interesting concepts from
> the 50+ years of Batman comics, such as the fellow who fixes the Batmobile.
> I'm not sure they did the best job with it, but it was OK.  (I thought it
> cute that the "initial" Batmobile that Cooper sees Batman driving is from
> the 30's comics.)  
> 
> Two neat items: I liked the license plate the Penguin encounters at the end
> (subtitled, "The Dark Deco State" -- I'll say!); and while Paul Winfield's
> voice was readily recognizable, I didn't recognize John Delancie (Q on
> ST:TNG) as Falconie (or was it Eagleton? I forget.)

Too bad _everything_ they said about the Batmobile was wrong..

"12 gauge piston (pins?)"  Wow, its powered by SHOTGUN SHELLS!
"The trans-axel is shot, we'll have to order a new one" -

Think about this, calling up a PepBoys - "Hello, Um yea, I got a 78 
Batmobile, and I need a new transaxel, WHAT do you mean it needs to be 
special ordered?!".

Heh.

     Dan Reed - blu@cellar.org - AutoCAD Geek -Industrial Music Lover
      68'Cougar, 89'VW Golf, 74'Honda Cb360, 89'Rollerblade Zetras'
  "Anyone can get a gun Otis. You can make a phone call and get a gun."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation