HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: re W Magro's posting
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 07:52:15 GMT
Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand.

Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:

> Jon Clarke writes, about "expanding" the ST:
>  
> > Chris just stop and think of ...
>  
> > - Spectre        <-Agreed
> > - Sound cards    <- What.. Tweety Board..?  Give me a break!
 
                No ...Replay, Replay II and the many other ones, Kinda
                      like Soundblaster on the PC.
 
 
> > - Happy (the orginal) <- A pirate tool is an "expansion"..?

                           Wrong Bob, did do much wit it did you if all
                           you used it for was pirating.
 
> > - All the accelerator cards  <- Hack and Slash, Hack and Slash
> > - Video cards  <-Hack and Slash again
> > - Hard disks   <-Sort of basic, eh..?
                
                    Taking things for granted arn't you Bob?
 
> > - CD cards     <-Say what?  
> > - Rom cards/drives   <-ROM?  Flashcard drives?  Say what?
> > - and the list goes on and on and on and on  <-not very far it don't..
 
                      RomDrives, Rom Cards. The readers from .de on
                      this group will be familiar with the "CT" rom
                      drives, Gee Bob I still have a few here. It is
                      a ROM (27256 or the likes ie 512) card with
                      programs on it that boots before the hard disk.
                      But hey you know this already!  The CD cards and
                      Omti cards are from "CT" as kitsets as well and
                      work very well. It is in effect an IBM 50way slot.
                      That is right just plug the IBM cards in Bob!
>  
> > Hmm this resembles the same sort of upgrades you get for the PC to me
> 
> Again, give me a break..!
 
 Bob give ME and the reST of us a break. Just because you have not seen
 product do not throw it back in our face. Remember you are in the USA 
 a place that has access to MORE Atari product/3rd Party product than
 those of us in New Zealand, but here we are with us at the end of the
 world knowing and using stuff you have not even seen. This to me is a
 little confusing to say the leaste. In fact it reminds me of the old
 "silver platter" saying.
> 
> BobR

 Happy days BobR


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Re: Good old Darek
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:13:42 GMT

In article 17299@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov, hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:

>I dunno about the Amiga, but anyone who claims that Macs are genuinely
>upgradable is either a moron or has been brainwashed by the idiotic Apple
>propaganda.
>
>The point being - we've already rehashed time and time again how "upgradeable"
>PCs are. But to claim that Macs are upgradable *is* just pure BS, in my book.


Ah, c'mon, Howard.  These comments may have been close to the mark for the
early Macs, but certainly isn't the case for any of the modular ones (LC, si,
ci, fx, vx, vi, quadra, etc).  The ci has a cache card slot, SIMM sockets, and
4 Nubus slots into which may be inserted graphics adapters, ethernet cards,
accelerators, sound cards, video capture cards, etc.  You don't even have to
turn a screw to "pop the hood" for access to the motherboard.

Please don't take my comments, wrong.  The original 520ST was an outstanding
value in it's day and I _still_ believe that Atari systems provide a lot of
"bang for the buck" given their ease of use and relative performance.  But
like it or not, Atari's are still basically closed systems... both in their
architecture and the evident mindset at Atari HQ.  ;-)

---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________


Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:19485 news.groups:25282
From: koreth@spud.Hyperion.COM (Steven Grimm)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,news.groups
Subject: RFD: What to do with comp.binaries.atari.st/comp.sources.atari.st?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 21:41:05 -0800
Organization: Hyperion, Mountain View, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spud.hyperion.com

I just posted "reverse" to comp.binaries.atari.st.  It's the only submission
I've received for either group in nearly a month, unless you count all the
"Why isn't there anything in this group?" messages.

It seems clear to me that neither group is going to pick up much steam under
my direction.  When I post the submission guidelines, I get a trickle of new
programs, but it dies off quickly.

Originally, this was going to be a simple call for a new moderator, someone
who has the time to be a little more proactive about seeking out software
to post, which is what I think would be necessary to get any decent volume.
But upon further reflection, I started wondering if maybe c.b.a.s (and to a
lesser extent c.s.a.s) was really all that useful in its present form.

With the steady increase in popularity of the ftp-based archive sites,
many of which can also be accessed directly via E-mail (or indirectly via
the various ftpmail servers on the net), does it really make sense any more
to broadcast uuencoded binaries to every site on the net?

Perhaps the group should be more along the lines of gnu.announce, where new
programs available for ftp (or mail-server access) are announced but not
actually posted.  This might cut down on what little net bandwidth the
group eats; on the other hand, it makes retrieving software on a UUCP-only
site slower, sometimes significantly so.

Not, mind you, that I'm opposed to the way the group works now, or to
continuing as moderator, but neither of these may be the most effective
way to serve the Atari ST user community, which is largely why I got into
this moderation thing in the first place.

So what do people think?  Should the group continue as is?  Should I step
down and let someone else take the helm?  Should binaries continue to be
posted, or should the group switch to a low-bandwidth "announce" format?
If it did the latter, would it still be an appropriate member of the
comp.binaries hierarchy?  And what about comp.sources.atari.st?

I've crossposted to news.groups, as there are some issues of general interest
here, but the decision should ultimately be made by the comp.sys.atari.st
crowd, I think.

-Steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest)
Subject: Re: The compatibility story (Falcon & A1200)
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:15:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.110720.14311@umiami.ir.miami.edu> dlk0ms9s@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
> 50% of 100 is 50.
> 80% of 50 is 40.
> 60% of 40 is 24!
>
>  So 24 out of 100 games should work on the 1200.  Personally, I don't find

This is getting silly.
C= itself claims 60% compatability with ALL software for the Amiga series.

If your Falcon does 95% then I'm tempted to suggest that you come from
another planet. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but I have a hard
time accepting it.
Most problems comes from the fact that
- self-modyfying code blows up with caches (turn them off)
- the stack frame is different (no hope for these shitty programmers)
- it runs faster and timing depending on the processor speed blows up. This
is especially bad on custom loaders (more shitty programmers)

A very big number of Amiga games have been done on the ST by the same
programmers so you'll have your share of crashing games.

Programs that use the OS give the OS writers a chance to help them even if
they screw up in some way. Of course, some are beyond all hope.

>[ Mark Santora                                                       ]
-- 
|/// borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) | Amiga B2000			 \\\|
|//  Box 218, 9001 Tromsoe, Norway	  | Remember to :-) when needed	  \\|
|/   The worlds northernmost university	  | Life is worth living.	   \|
#Disclaimer: This university and me does not agree.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,news.groups
From: saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: Re: RFD: What to do with comp.binaries.atari.st/comp.sources.atari.st?
Summary: There's a case for high bandwidth sources/binaries groups
Keywords: sources binaries Atari ftp news mail satellite
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 16:31:15 GMT

Steve Grimm asks what's to become of comp.[sources binaries].atari.st.  I
would suggest that it would be appropriate to supplement traffic from direct
submissions with selections from the ftp archives which are of general 
interest, even if they were not submitted.

First: I will take it as given that a small minority of those interested in
the sources and binaries can ftp directly.  In at least the case of atari.
archive.umich.edu, but I think others, dialup access to the archive (either
to a uucp login or a bbs) has been rejected (mostly, I think, for security
reasons).  The assumption is common that mailservers and ftp-by-mail are
good solutions for the great un-Internetted masses.  Here's my other view:

In the Chicago area, mail goes mostly through the heavily-burdened clout
system.  ftp-by-mail is a strain on the capacity of mail channels (which
are administered more with a view to improving speed and reliability of
delivery than to accomodating more volume).  News travels in several ways
that are not open to mail (including a direct satellite downlink to chinet).
The goals are more attuned to guaranteed eventual delivery and accomodating
volume than with the mail channels.  In the Chicago area, a modest switch
of volume from news to mail would be a move in a good direction.

I presume that the key to this situation: news has more routes available
than mail has, applies in many cases.  So I think it would be a good idea,
when there are few submissions to the sources/binaries newsgroups, for the
moderator to select a reasonable volume of items of wide interest from ftp-
only archives and post them.
                                        Steve     saj@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Subject: Re: ICD Host Adapter
Reply-To: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Organization: Health Computer Sciences, U of MN, Mpls
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:19:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.072803.28071@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>, volker@sfb256.iam.uni-bonn.de ( Volker A. Brandt ) writes:
>To be fair, there IS the possibility to d/l their software from a mailbox in
>Germany, but the long distance phone charge would be even more than DM 20 :-(
>
>Yet another example how US mfgrs ***** their European customers.

Er, you forget the fact that CompuServe and GEnie require on-line charges in
order to download software as well.  We're not exactly getting the ICD software
for 'free' here either.  Some companies, like ICD, offer on-line access to
their software as a service to those people lucky enough to subscribe to that
service.  There is nothing illegal, immoral or attening in such offerings.  Not
everyone in the US is connected to CompuServe or GEnie either, and, for those
who are not, it costs money to obtain updates from ICD.

On the other hand, there are plenty of European manufacturers from whom we
cannot even GET an update electronically.  Should we then use this as an
example of how "[European] mgfrs ***** their [US] customers"?   I don't think
so.

Complain about something that matters.

-- David Paschall-Zimbel
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William  B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Falcon030 competes with '486dx-33
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:53:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


You've got Apple pegged on that one: they're very slick marketers.  I like
their physical product, but they are very sly at roping you in to their
market.  
From: clausb@hpbbrd.bbn.hp.com (Claus Brod)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:40:13 GMT
Subject: Re: QUESTION: Syquest 44 boot
Organization: HP Mechanical Design Division
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Michael Olin (molin@ptb.cl.msu.edu) wrote:
> But I
> also know people who use only the Syquest, and they don't have the
> problem at all...  Go figure.

Whether or not you get the problem depends on the version of your
Syquest firmware.

-- 
--clausb@hpbeo79.bbn.hp.com----------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, MDD, HP Boeblingen   	Things. Take. Time. (Piet Hein)
--#include <std_disclaimer>----------------------------------------------
From: okes@essex.ac.uk (Simon Oke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Porky pig.
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:53:37 GMT
	<H.ea.0kgtRS0BsQs@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca>
	<1993Jan11.021216.13462@bsu-ucs>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Essex, UK.
In-reply-to: 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu's message of 11 Jan 93 07:12:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.021216.13462@bsu-ucs> 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
|My thoughts to that point (thinking more generally) are that MOST people don't
|NEED to program in GNU C++.  This places a hard-drive back into the nice-but-
|still-a-luxury catagory.  Sorry, it's still $$ (and a maybe a smattering of
|nostalgia) that holds me out of the clone-realm.  I'll probably cross the
|threshhold some time after a hard-drive for this ST costs more than a complete
|clone system.  And that's not likely to happen soon.
|
I don't need G++ either. However, I couldn't do any of my project work at
home without GCC. For example, the code I wrote last year compiled perfectly
happily using GCC on a SPARCstation. When I took it home to work on, I tried
all 3 compilers which I had available.

1. Lattice C.
   Got around the problem of it not having a proper make by merging all the
   files into one. Finally compiled after a few options had been changed.
   Code ran and exited immediately, saying that the stack was full.

2. Sozobon C.
   Didn't even compile. Got half-way through and said that there was a fatal
   bug IN THE COMPILER.

3. GCC.
   Worked first time.

Boy is GCC useful. It eats up a few acres of disk space, but I'm glad I've
got it.

--
Simon Oke, 3rd year Computer Science
undergraduate at the University of Essex, UK.
From: only_bbs!King_Midas@under.mind.ORG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Arcs and MSA help needed desperately!!
Date: 08 Jan 93 16:39:00 -0500
Organization: Not really.
X-newsreader: Fortress v1f-75

  
 An even better idea is to drop MSA completely and use Chaos Disk 
Compactor. Not only does it eliminate the disk-swapping on 
single-floppy systems, it also compresses much better and can 
decompress both it's own files (CDC) and MSA files. 
  
 As for better compression, Jam Packer with LZH compression does 
great disk packing, but it's slowwww... (speed is traded for packing
power).

--
via Fortress Gateway at uumind.mind.ORG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Convince me to stick with Atari.
From: rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins)
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:41:08 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <H.ea.j4q4EfvkubE@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca>, cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth) writes:
> In <93009.183252SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>, <SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>> Well I cannot dissuade you from buying a '486 but I can tell you why
>> I'm never buying a mac...
> 
> All excellent points...  Another one is the absurd cost of peripherals. 
> Compare the price of a SyQuest or something with a comparable drive on a
> PC, even an external one with its own case/powersupply.
> 
>> Like you, I want to buy a Falcon or an Amiga, But I'm waiting.  I am afraid
>> brute force on the PCs will ultimately overtake the design elegance of these
>> machines.  I'll still keep my 1040 though...  I just need to get X running
>> on it and I'll be happy for some time yet.  The NCDs in my lab only have
>> 8 Mhz 68000s and they are perfectly adequate X terminals...
> 
> I've looked and decided Macs are far too expensive for what you get. 
> Also, you end up with better hardware (surprise!) and software that's
> about as good (anybody use Microsoft Word lately?  I hate MS, but Word
> is kinda nice...).

	Well, I've moved up to a Powerbook 100, and I have to say it it is 
a great improvement. I bought it brand new for $700 with the external FDHD. 
System 7 is tons better than GEM, and I also can get educational discounts.

	I agree that software is expensive, but it depends on what you want 
to do. Microsoft Works or ClarisWorks are both very good intergrated 
programs, and only cost ~$150. (I haven't priced them lately.)

	I'm sorry to say I will probably never buy anything new from Atari 
again. (Although I still like my 1040ST, it hasn't been turned on in over a 
month.)

Later.......

------======={{{{{{{{((((((Ryan 'Gozar' Collins))))))))}}}}}}}}=======--------
"You can never own enough /    __    ___  ___  \rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
computer equipment"      /    /  /  /  /    /   \RC1DSANU@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
                        /    / _   /  /   /      \rcollins@apsvax.aps.muohio.edu
 |||   "Power Without  /    /__/  /__/  /___      \  R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
/ | \     The Price"  /                            \
	    ------======={{{{{{{{(((((())))))))}}}}}}}}=======-----  12-JAN-1993
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:55:49 EST
From: J.J. Lehett <JJL101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Kermit file transfers at 9600 bps
Distribution: world

   Regarding the lower transfer rates:

     If the modem is a MNP5 modem, and you are going in through a packet
switch to get to the VAX, be sure to turn off the MNP5 compression.  With it
on, it really causes delays (similiar to your figures) when transmitting or
receiving data or files.  To make sure, try the command: AT%C0 to you modem
to turn it off.  Also, when sending via Zmodem with the 'sz' command
in many instances you will need to add the -e switch to escape all control
characters.
    SO:  1) before dialing the modem: AT%C0
         2) use : sz -e filename when sending a file

    Also, for receiving a file to your ST from the vax, be sure you Zmodem
is set to receive 'escaped control chars'.

    One final note on Zmodem vs kermit, is your data connection to the vax
a 7-e or 8-n connection?  If it is 7-e , you most likely will have to stick
with kermit.

    Hope this helps.
------------------
J.J. Lehett     : Atari's, puzzles, games, MIDI, fractals, Kawai K4's...

  - Work: JJL101@psuvm.psu.edu           Penn State CAC
  - Genie: J.LEHETT2
  - Delphi: JLEHETT@delphi.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: vanlamme@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (VAN LAMMEREN M - ENGLISH)
Subject: Fax Software
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:21:47 GMT

I have an Atari 1040STe and a 2400/9600 Zoom Fax Modem.
Can anyone recommend fax software, and indicate where I may find it?

Thanks in advance.

Mike van Lammeren  "Everyone is on Sale"

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: pegasus@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Patricia Snyder-Rayl)
Subject: Re: A letter to Dave Baggett
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:44:43 GMT

em.wcc.govt.nz> <1ioj0jINNj11@life.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000



In talking about how great the ST is in the MIDI market, the writer also
mentioned there's been a lot of rights-swapping for the MIDI software.
That's precisely because Atari has allowed this market to get into this
horribly bad state.  Large companies with, say, 5 full time employees,
couldn't make enough money in the ST market anymore to pay for those
employees, so they moved on.  The authors of the software then took back
the rights for the ST version, and are now marketing it out of their
garages.

Look at the trends, people.  Companies can't make enough to support
themselves on single products anymore, and they've done two things to
stay alive: Add other products (for example CodeHeads) or branch out into
other markets.  I heard recently that ISD is making a version of Calamus
for Windows.  Charles and John have made no secret about the fact that
CodeHead Software used to bring in more money handling only 1 program than
they do now carrying over 10.  

Atari is not currently producing much product to sell. Their stock is
barely staying above a dollar.

Atari has approximately $50 million cash and 50 million shares of stock.
(From a stockholder's viewpoint, the stock is worth about an eighth of a 
dollar (12.5 cents) per share.  Last time I checked the stock was trading
at 1 and 1/8th.)  Atari has sold off most of its real estate holdings and
other properties.   The Lynx was their largest selling product, and their
largest account for that, Toys R US, has dropped them.

			Pattie Rayl
From: 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Porky pig.
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:25:53 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

> BTW, check out misc.forsale.computers for used hard drive prices.  I
> bought a 50M Quantum for $80 a few months ago...

Hmm...Is that really a message are on the Net?  I'll go chack after this
session, but I dunno if BSU subscribes to that particular message base.  After
the $80, I'd still have get case/LINK, no?

>> I believe someone said something about that being a beta copy, or unliscenced
>> or something.  Of course pirating is not so unfamiliar to many clone users.
> 
> How exactly does one pirate a CD-ROM?  650M hard drives aren't exactly
> cheap...  ;-)
                                        
C'mon!  OS/2 isn't 650megabytes long!  Is it?  Even so, I've seen one of my
friends walking around with MS-DOS 5.0  (I think it was)  on a fist-full
of 720k floppies--they're cheap ya know.

>> Anywho, it sounds like you're on the right track.  Buy what you need.  Use
>> will-power.  Buy only what you need.  The clone-realm is prone to draw a man to
>> gadget hell.  Look at them, look at what Atari can do, look at what MAC can do.  
>> Good luck!
> 
> Precisely why I'm trying to collect as much info as possible...  I
> figure I'm pretty immune to the clone sales droids, but my fiancee's
> father isn't...

Heheh....Well, good luck to him too!

				-Matt

P.S. I get a chuckle every time I read "sales _droids_"....heheh.