From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: If you haven't sent your checks to no-on-hate yet, do it!
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:42:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.174025.25226@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart) writes:
> In article <1992Sep25.173122.15439@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> >	Libertarianism *is* anti-equality.  Politics at a 4-year-old
> >level.
> 
> Bumper Sticker: "Libertarianism: designer politics for the Me Generation"
> 
> More seriously, I am no expert on Libertarian theory (despite some reading and
> a good deal of discussion), but I have run into a large number of self     
> identified Libertarians on computer networks, and there does appear to be some
> similarity of psychological profile, as best I can (fallibly) sense it.
> I'm not sure how this maps to what age, but Libertarians *have* generally 
> progressed beyond the "gimme gimme" level of development.  Some (many?) do
> seem stuck at the next level ("I won't steal your toys if you won't steal mine")
> with sometimes an element of "we can both play together while we both want to".
> 
> I don't mean to entirely knock this; it is a stage of emotional/social   
> development which eludes some members of our society.  But long experience
> leads me to posit that any argument which is built on any further level of
> social development than the above just goes over most Libertarian's heads,
> emotionally/intuitively (not intellectually, of course; they can be quite
> intelligent at times). 

  One question. What "further level of social development" are you 
talking about? Can you prove that it is in fact not reducible to
some combination of either of your previous levels (which seems
like a reasonable simplification).

> L's tend to be folks to whom society has given a privileged and well rewarded
> position, and who feel that without government their own position would be
> even better.  They may talk about it not being a zero-sum game, and thus 
> everyone doing better; but they don't really have to worry about this much,
> as they feel that in either case (whether the poor get poorer or richer, say),
> they personally will be richer, without personally stealling from anyone, and
> this is enough.  Since those of us talented in computers tend to be much better
> paid than folks with equivalent talents in poetry, music, cooking, child care,
> landscaping, nursing, or fixing lawnmowers, ie: we tend to be on the "good end
> of the stick", there is a natural tendency for a higher percentage of folks
> to be attracted to Libertarianism.

  This is an unwarranted generalization -- one that is very tiresome.
The *exact* same arguments could be made of hardcore Marxist academics.
If there is anything to be said about *either* group, it is that they 
tend to be "intellectuals" by nature, and as such have a tendancy to be
better educated and thus more employable. 
  If you are trying to say that L's are in it only for their own gain
then I will ask you to explain to me why the socialist movement of
the past century managed to gather so much support from these same
group(s) that had the most to lose. 
  Whether you like it or not, people can be driven by principles as
well as direct gain -- even when the two are diametrically opposed
to one another.
 
> These are my observations, and nothing more.  I think they are worth pondering
> and reflection when a discriminated against group is discussing their issues
> with Libertarians.  If it suits their self image more to identify with you,
> they may help; if it suits them more to identify with those who have the power
> to discriminate, you may lose them.  Intellectual arguments are secondary to
> this dynamic.

  Oh. I'm glad to hear that. L's are *pragmatists* now. Hahahaha.
That's a good one :-) Let me give you a hint, pragmatic would be
to cow-tow to Patty Duke and his you young Hitlers for Jesus 
or Will o' the Wisp and his ecofascist henchman.
  Pragmatic indeed.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
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