HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: To Brian
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:42:15 GMT

In article <Bxzyv1.L0x@twwells.com> anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain) writes:
>
>As an example, two friends of mine were having a conversation in a room once. 
>The door was open, so I stood in the doorway and waited for a lull in the
>conversation so I could get into the conversation too.  After a few minutes,
>though, one of them turned to me and said, "Can't you tell were trying to
>have a private conversation?"
>
>NO!!  I couldn't tell.  I mean, the conversation didn't sound private (it's
>not like they were talking about private things or other people), and if they
>wanted a private conversation, why the hell was the door open?!  And I wasn't
>even butting in with inappropriate remarks or anything like that.  I guess I
>just missed some nonverbal clue that would be really obvious for a normal
>person but makes absolutely no impression on me.

Well, you just have to start from scatch at learning these cues.  It's
doable ( I used to be in the same boat).  In this case, what you
missed was not a cue but the *absence* of a cue.  When you walk up to
a conversation like that, at least one of the people is supposed to
look up briefly, make eye contact, and either say hi or at least nod
their head slightly, acknowledging you.  If they don't do this within
the first minute or so, that means you are not welcome to join the
conversation and should drift quietly away.

They were pretty rude about it, probably annoyed that you didn't pick
up on the nonverbal lack-of-cue.  I don't think they like you,
actually.  Don't take it personally, there are other people who *will*
like you.  You just have to find them (not easy, but possible if you
work at it).

>  One more thing I'm doing
>wrong when it comes to trying to pursue relationships-- no wonder why every
>time I've tried I've failed miserably.

You haven't failed, you've simply discovered another way that doesn't
work.  You'll get there.

-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)
From: anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: About SO's
Date: 23 Nov 92 03:18:19 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

A bunch of people have written to me regarding my recent postings about SO's
(or my lack of them) and feeling unloved.  I can't remember exactly who wrote
and posted what, so I'll respond to everybody now over the net.

Somebody said I should just try to say what I feel.  But whatever I feel when
I talk to somebody of the opposite sex (in a social situation) is
awkwardness.  And the more I feel romantically about her, the more awkward I
feel.  I'm afraid she's going to think what I say is silly, and I hardly know
what to say in the first place, so I feel really uncomfortable.  I find
myself stopping every few words for a little bit and then continuing.  Often
I feel as if that's so I can summon the courage to speak the next couple of
words.  And what's worse is how obvious my awkwardness is.  I mean, I notice
it myself.  It must be incredibly obvious to anybody who's watching or
listeneng to me.

I also have a great deal of difficulty with nonverbal cues, as I think I
already mentioned.  I mean, I wouldn't know a girl was interested in me
unless she actually came up to me and said so, in so many words.  I wouldn't
know either what sort of signals I'm sending out.  A friend of mine once
said, "You're beautiful in that you're incredibly naive and straightforward
when it comes to relationships."  But what's wrong with being
straightforward??  The times I've tried to be subtle, I've done things like
look in the general direction of the person in order to try to make eye
contact.  Instead, people seem to think I'm staring at them....  :-(

Someone else said it's important to look people in the eye when you're
talking to them.  Probably a good idea, except that it makes me feel very
insecure.  I'm afraid that I'm trusting in them too much and that I'm going
to have my trust violated.  Even with strangers I find it difficult to look
them in the eye.  Opening up to people is so scary for me.

>From what everybody's been saying to me, I guess I've been doing a lot of
things wrong when it comes to pursuing relationships.  Yet what hurts is that
all my friends keep telling me to be myself because I'm a really nice guy. 
But I've been TRYING to be myself, and that hasn't worked at all-- I've
fucked up every time.  I wish I knew what I were doing.

The Captain



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From: anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Perp Poem
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:30:56 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Here is a poem about my Perp that I would like to share. It
is very short!

Retribution 


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From: werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re:  does anybody want ME?
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:27:31 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley School of Education
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.157.31

In article <1992Nov15.064000.20458@netcom.com>, enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
wrote:
> But that isn't what loving yourself means.  In fact, it's the exact
> opposite.  "Get a life" is pretty hostile, not loving.

I know.  Intellectually anyway.  But my emotions don't agree most of the
time.  They've been either shut off or depressed for so long that that's
all they know how to do right now.  I started therapy a few months ago, and
it seems to be helping (or doing something anyway), but it will be a while.

> I remember when it hit me - I was reading yet another self-help book,
> and suddenly it just clicked that other people may have convinced me
> that I was worthless, but they were *wrong*.

I've read some self-help books and a couple of Alice Miller's books, and
the same sort of thing happens as with loving myself.  They make sense on
an intellectual level, but they don't really click emotionally.  One of
these days....

--
John Werner                         werner@soe.berkeley.edu
UC Berkeley School of Education     510-642-9651
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Religion
Date: 18 Nov 92 08:25:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov17.221109.2392@gacvx2.gac.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>In article <1992Nov15.181338.14620@netcom.com>  writes:
>>In article <Bxr3F9.2FK@twwells.com> anon-1280@twwells.com (Ode) writes:
>>>anon-1229@twwells.com (Little boy) writes:
>>>
>>>>>M. Scott Peck, in _The Road Less Traveled_, reminds us to keep in mind the 
>>religion as "what you believe in", as far as I can remember.  To his
>>way of thinking, atheism and agnosticism are just [AS] religions.
>                                                    ^^
>Wow, quite a typo there!                            !!

Huh?  I didn't type [AS] - what are you talking about?

holly
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: To anon-1266
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:26:53 GMT

In article <By1MGn.9A3@twwells.com> anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain) writes:
>I'd love to write back to you personally, except that your mail isn't turned
>on.  Try starting a line with ANON-mail: ON
>
>I think that will turn your mail on.
>
>The Captain
>

I think that's

ANON-Mail: Yes

I believe the M in Mail has to be capitalized, and the message has to go
at the beginning of a line.  At any rate, it's definitely Yes and No not
On and Off.  This can be done in email or in a post as long as it
goes through twwells.com.

	This problem happens a lot for people who respond to a post by
hitting 'r'.

Sherri
From: robertc@sco.COM (Robert Chansky)
Subject: Re: response to ed
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:47:17 GMT


>
>>Oh, and as to your accusation that I called "us all illiterate dipshits",
>>that wasn't one of my posts.  I said something completely different.  I
>>think you have me confused with someone else.
>
>		No, Ed. I don't think so. 

I support Anika here; I distinctly remember it: "LISTEN UP, YOU DIPSHITS"
was I believe approximately the phrase you used.

-- 
                                 . 
                     (.signature at 50 meters)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: to anon-1392 (Erin)
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:00:37 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

ANON-Mail: On

I think you need to start a line with that in order to be able to receive
mail.  At any rate, writing to anon-help@twwells.com should give you all the
information you need to be able to use your anon account (ie. get a nickname,
etc.)

The Captain



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From: anon-1280@twwells.com (Ode)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Outrageous!
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:35:15 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes


We all take ourselves so seriously (as well we should) but this is an
example of how some others treat abuse. This was in today's (11-19)
Chicago Tribune:

           --------------------------------------

Another tale of abuse

The latest parent-basher is Richard Cowsill, non-singing member of the
'60s group The Cowsills, who is now a Long Island real estate broker.
 "My father was a child abuser, physically and sexually," he says of
Bud Cowsill, who died in a plane crash several weeks ago. "My sister
had to leave the house when she was 12 because she resisted his 
advances and he battered her."

            --------------------------------------
  
I'm outraged...

1) because I was a big Cowsills fan and it's a shock to learn that
there was abuse in the family.

2) the title given "_Another_ tale of abuse" indicates a ho-hum, here
comes another one, attitude.

3) "latest parent-basher" ???? As if it doesn't matter? As if Richard
Cowsill was just saying it to be mean? What??? What the FUCK???

This came from the Chicago Tribune wire service, so it might appear
in other papers all over the country. How *DARE* they treat it with
such cynical apathy!! ARGH!!

In the same paper was a story about a daytime soap actress who is a
real-life survivor of cult abuse.  Plus, Ann Landers printed a letter
from an incest survivor. These things *happen*! I just can't figure
out why the writer of the Cowsill piece treated it so lightly.

We have a long, long, long, long way to go :-(

|vickie|



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: guilt & catch 22
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:22:44 -0600

In article <Bxxn8A.5G3@twwells.com>  writes:
>I was not abused sexually as a child (abused in most other ways though)
>but I was as an adult. It is kind of embarrassing because, unlike so 
>...
>
>As soon as a relationship gets sexual (as opposed to cuddly) 
>I am out of there emotionally. I mean permanently and immediately. 
>Is this a catch 22 situation? - need to find the right person to 
>work out the problems but the problems prevent me from finding the 
>right person?

Wrong. 

Let me explain.. I think you are saying that you can't keep the right person
until you get over your fear of sexuality, correct? If this is what you are
saying, you are not to blame. The "right" person should be unfazed by you backing
away and should be as supportive as possible.. How else can you get better? If
he is the "right" person, he will understand this.
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Recovery Goals?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:58:08 GMT

cloister bell (cloister@stein.u.washington.edu) wrote:

: i disagree with your friend.  the person who walks over the grating and doesn't
: think about it is still in danger from the "it".  there are abusers out there,
: even now that we're grown-ups.  if you go walking over sewer grates not looking
: for what might be in them, imho you are denying that there are dangerous people
: in the world.  i would say that the most healed person is the one who walks
: over the grate (has overcome their fear of that situation, and doesn't let it
: affect their plans) but looks back to make sure it's safe (doesn't give the
: abusers the chance to abuse them again).
: 
: yes, it sure seems like healing would be equivalent to dealing with the sewer
: grate as if nothing remarkable had ever happened to you from a sewer grate, but
: i don't think that's really true.

But isn't looking in the sewer grate "just in case" a fear-based response,
rooted in the memory of the abuse?  If you still didn't fear, you wouldn't
look, would you?  It seems to me that if you live your life looking around the
next corner to make sure you won't get jumped, that's a very fearful way to
live.  Now, if you heard a strange noise from the sewer grate, you'd look --
and perhaps be a bit fearful -- but would you run away in terror?

Let me put this in a bit more concrete terms, at least for me and my situation.
I've been sexually abused by my ex- ... but that doesn't stop me from seeking
other relationships, both romantic and non-romantic, with women.  I'm not
looking in every sewer grate I pass, but if I hear a strange noise (or get
"red flags" from a woman) I think, based on my past experiences, that it would
be prudent to investigate where the noises are coming from, and whether or not
that is a threat to me (or whether or not the woman's behavior is a threat
to me).  I don't run away from sewer grates (or women), and I don't think
(IMHO) that I am overly pessimistic about my chances of being successful,
either.

I know people that run from encounters with the opposite sex.  That's where
they are, and that's their business.  But, to me, that's a little like avoiding
sewer grates because "IT" came out of one once.  Not all sewer grates hide "IT".

Flames welcome - but IN EMAIL!!  This flaming is getting a bit tiresome.
--
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what
he already is, of the True Self within."  -- Zen maxim
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
From: anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: hello
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:36:59 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I got the following letter in my email account today from my counselor's
secretary.

** Forwarded Message from [my counselor's secretary] **

Dear [name],

[Your counselor] asked me to email you to inform you that he has not in any
way dismissed your memo of Nov 11.  He doesn't type and we are his email
receivers.  He is in the process of dictating a memo to you, as you
requested, responding to the issues you raised and the concerns you have.

I hope you can understand that this is an extremely busy time and that it has
been hectic the last couple of weeks with midterms and now finals, etc. 
However, he has reserved time for dictation and I will try to work the
transmission of that dictation to you as soon as I get it back to email for
his proof reading.  This may take awhile, but he is trying to get it
completed for you in the written form as you requested.

[signed]

** End of letter

Now I know I have grounds for a formal complaint.  This discussion should be
between my counselor and me, and NOBODY else should be involved, NOT EVEN HIS
SECRETARY!!!

I wrote a letter back to the secretary telling her that she should tell my
counselor this is definitely a breach of my confidentiality-- basically what
I just said right above.

I'm just curious (not that it *really* matters, considering the other things
he's done).  Do you think it's unprofessional that my counselor has his
secretary check his email account?  On the form I filled out before my first
session, there was a question that asked whether or not I could be contacted
by email?  For a doctor to have his secretary notify patients they can't make
the meeting might be one thing, but to have his secretary take dictation on a
letter regarding things that happened in the sessions is completely wrong,
IMO.

The Captain



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From: werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Scientology (was response to ed)
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:15:45 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: UC Berkeley School of Education
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.157.31

In article <By7CwL.n1M@twwells.com>, anon-1390@twwells.com (Screaming Fist)
wrote:
> 
> However, according
> to my sources, what they *do* do is soak their members for large
> amounts of money to pay for a totally bogus pseudo-scientific program
> of personal "development."

They're also the group that is almost single-handedly responsible for all
the controversy over Prozac a year or two ago.  The Scientologists are
almost crazed in their dislike of psychology and psychiatry.  They have an
alternative, of course :-).  Hubbard's first (?) Scientology book
"Dianetics: The Modern Science
of Mental Health" describes it.  Basically, it's nonsense mixed with lots
of pseudoscientific babble to make it sound good.  Lots of equations with
fun terms like "out-gradient" and "the magnitude on which the person is
surviving on the dynamic".  Right.

If you need a laugh and have a strong stomach, there's an FAQ file in
alt.religion.scientology you can look at.

--
John Werner                         werner@soe.berkeley.edu
UC Berkeley School of Education     510-642-9651
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1383@twwells.com (Apple)
Subject: Nickname assign
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 07:39:52 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


ANON-Name: Apple



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: Holiday bummers
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:04:08 GMT

In article <BxsC2z.DBB@twwells.com> anon-1209@twwells.com (just me) writes:
>ANON-Name: just me
>
>It's been hard. Work is hard. My personal life is hard. My husband and
>I aren't getting along very well because I'm always stressed-out. And
>horror of horrors, Christmas is coming ...
>
>First of all, I haven't figured out where the money is going to come from
>for Christmas presents. So I'm quite stressed about this. I've applied
>for a couple of seasonal jobs, but no one has been interested so far. But
>I'll probably figure this one out, either by making a bunch of presents
>or borrowing a bunch of money.

I got really fed up with Christmas too...  spending a lot of money
that you can't spare for junk the person doesn't even need or want... 
Several years ago I told my family that I didn't want to exchange
presents any more.  They couldn't afford it either, and seemed
relieved.  You can't do that with kids, of course, but you can make
Christmas seem magical to a child without spending a lot of money (at
least you can if they haven't had their expectations blown all out of
proportion by watching TV...).


>
>But the big problem is that I had a HUGE fight with my younger sister
>right after my birthday. 
[details of fight deleted for brevity]

>
>Now, I have a lot of time off around Christmas (my company shuts down),
>so my first response was to suggest to my husband that we go somewhere
>and just bag the whole family Christmas scene. But he has to work, and
>he's upset about the thought of not spending Christmas with _his_ family.
>
>So I'm stuck. I have to either set up 'competing' events and invite my 
>older sister and my youngest sister, or miss spending Christmas with them.
>No matter what I do, I have to make someone very unhappy, and again, it will
>probably be me. I'm an outsider in my own family, and nothing points this
>out better than Christmas.
>
>I hate the holidays. I wish I could just disappear until January.
>

Have you read "The Dance of Anger" and "The Dance of Intimacy" by
Harriet Lerner?  These books really pushed my rebellion buttons,
because I don't *want* to re-establish relationships with my family.
I don't even want to talk to them on the phone, much less give them
Christmas presents.  But it sounds like you want to connect with your
family, and these two books give some very good suggestions on how to
manage it.

I hope you can find a way to spend Christmas in a way that makes *you*
happy, and doesn't stress you out too much.  Good luck...

-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ALI00ERW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: greetings
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:31:40 GMT

 
ANON-name - Hide-and-Seek
 
Hello,
 
Welcome to a.s.a.r.!!!
 
[stuff deleted]
 
I can't see a professional because I am only 18 and don't have any money and my
parents won't pay for it.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Can anyone relate
to this??
 
                Hide-and-Seek
 
Is there a public clinic in your area? Maybe the local battered women's
shelter could recommend a clinic with a sliding scale.  When I was 18 and
in a situation very similar to yours (no money, still financially depend-
ant on my abusers), I saw a therapist in private practice who took a few
"charity" cases. She just charged me five dollars an hour. Maybe you can
find-out about someone like this where you live.
 
Good luck,
 
Erin