From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Elle Macpherson Causes Rape
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:58:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov9.212713.15230@wam.umd.edu> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
>Article 2314 of alt.feminism:
>Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
>From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
>Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
>
>
>
>Rich Payne replies:
>
>With you so far...
>
>>Women are thinkingfeeling human beings who are psychologically hurt being 
>>USED like a hunk of metal to sell a product.  
>
>RASH generalization alert. (I like that one :^)
>
>I am sure they cry all the way to the bank. No doubt Farrah Facwett (sp?)
>has had to be institutionalized by now.
>
>	I meant the consumers who are programmed to believe that if
>	they dont look like these models they are less as people.

Do you really believe that women are so gullible and simplistic? I
suspect that if they need validation like this to consider themselves
as people, than they still have a way to go. But you changed subjects,
first you make claims about the MODELS, then you sidestep and act as
if the topic were the consumer. Make up your mind, and stick to one
topic.

>	I also meant the same consumers, who once being so programmed
>	take extreme unhealthy measures in an attempt to achieve
>	this look.

You will always find some who do stupid things. I suspect that these
people would always follow some holy grail. 
 
>The alternative is that this is an ego trip which bolsters their self
>confidence, and re-inforces their feeling of self-worth, and pays well.
>Naaa...
>
>	For the models who are naturally fit the bill, yes.  However
>	most females dont.                 
 
Since you started out talking about the models, my response is on-topic.
Your reply, however, is not. Re-read the opening sentence.
 
>    Women may be partially responsible for their mental
>>health in this matter as suggested by the person who claimed it was all
>>a self-esteem problem.  
>
>Women are -victims-, get it straight, you are guilty of blaming the victim.
>
>>                          Okay.  By the same line of reasoning I cant blaim
>>someone who hurts me by punching me in my mouth.  
>
>What an incredibly valid comparison, adevrtising and a punch in the mouth.
>No wonder the women all have perfect teeth, dental reconstruction! :^)
>	
>
>	I think programming one to buy certain products and to strive
>	for an unhealthy image is an injury.  I also think a punch
>	in the mouth is an injury.  I tried to keep the comparison
>	simple.  My fault.

It is readily apparent that a punch in the mouth is an injury. You have
not shown that modeling is. And keep in mind that simple and accurate are
two different things. Anologies -always- break down, and usually they
are not needed. Why not just talk about the actual topic?
 
>>                                               Afterall, it is partially
>>my responsibility for not blocking the blow and striking back.  If Im not
>>in good enough shape to ward off attack I guess it is still my fault.
>
>A short post, and he's babbling already. <sigh>
>
>	Very mature reply:)

No, just an observation. 
 
>>I could have had let other things I value in my life go while I worked out
>>to prepare for being attacked.  Why should I blame the person who struck
>>me?  Enough of the sarcasm.  Do you see what Im saying.  
>
>I have other problems with advertising, so I will not defend it. But I
>think all the points you raised are not only incorrect, but that you have
>been brainwashed. You have to read less propaganda. Read the romance novels,
>that's the ticket!  :^)
> 
>	My points are from personal experience AND extensive reading.

What assumptions do you make about me? And also, so what? 

>	I think you need to be more informed about issues when you
>	reply to opinions and I think you need to learn to do
>	in a mature manner.  I think you will find more people
>	will take you seriously.
 
When you go off in silly tangents, you should not expect others to take
you seriously.
 
>Rich
>Steve R

Rich

payner@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.women,soc.men,soc.singles