HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: _Gaelic_ by Roderick MacKinnon
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:57:33 GMT


In article <36171@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim) writes...
> 
>>Teach yourself is printed by Hodder and Stoughton, who may be
>reached
>>at:
>> Hodder and Stoughton Ltd,  Mill Road, Dunton Green, Sevenoaks,
>Kent, England
> 
>	Do I need a postal code to write to this address?  If I omit
>one, will a letter still get there?
> 
The postcode helps, but it is certainly not essential. I wouldn't worry
about not using it. It's only really essential if you're writing to
somewhere in Scotland using all-Gaelic addressing because virtually
no-one in the Scottish Post office (outside of the Islands) has Gaelic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: sharkey@robots.oxford.ac.uk (Paul Sharkey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: E/ire is ainm don Sta/t.... -- Name of Country
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:32:47 GMT
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Engineering Science Dept, Oxford, UK.

Matthew Huntbach writes:

>The extradition order refused for an IRA suspect because the
>British authorities got the name wrong most surely helped build
>up Unionist resentment against Ireland and the incorrect belief
>that the Irish authorities secretly support the IRA. This would
>then feed into the mentality which refuses any form of
>compromise or dealings with the Republic. 

Of course Matthew is right on a number of counts: 

a) that it is absolutely stupid to refuse an extradition on account of
the "Republic of Ire3land" instead of "Ireland" being stated on the
extradition form.

b) such actions do promote distrust

Here comes the BIG HOWEVER:

For it to happen once is most unfortunate. But for an extradition
request to be submitted knowing that the same would happen again is
inexcusable. As Matthew says:

>For the sake of making a point a large blow was delivered against the
>prospects for peace.

But just think about who was delivering the blow !
           
Paul.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul M Sharkey                      Phone:  +44 (0)865 273 150
Robotics Research Group             Fax:    +44 (0)865 273 908
Dept Engineering Science            
Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PJ          Email:  sharkey@uk.ac.ox.robots
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: pollard@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Tom Pollard)
Subject: Re: US Census statistics
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:49:53 GMT

fusco@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Andrew Fusco) writes:
>cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>
>>pollard@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Tom Pollard) writes...
>>>There was an article in today's New York Times which used various surveys and
>>>poll results to try to distill a description of a 'typical' American (a dubious
>>>exercise, at best).  The one factoid that caught my eye was the Census data
>>>that indicated that fully 13.1% of Americans claim some Irish ancestry, while
>>>only 11% claim any amount of English ancestry  (the 'Irish' were second only 
>>>to the 'Germans' - 19.6% claimed German ancestry).  I don't know whether I'm
>>>more surprised at the large percentage of 'Irish-Americans' or at the low
>>>number who recognize English ancestry, given the country's origins, or at the
>>>fact that the Census Bureau even asks something like this...
>>> 
>>What was the figure for the Scots?
>
>>Craig
>
>I'd like to know if there was a complete breakdown by ethnic group, and if
>you could post some of it.
>
>-ACF

Unfortunately, those were the only three figures that were reported in the
article, because they were the three largest categories.  Checking at the
documents room at the library, it appears that the detailed Census data (from
the long form) is only just starting to be being released and none of the
documents through June 1992 offer summaries of this material. I suspect the
NYTimes received it as a press release, although I haven't actually tried
calling them yet.  

I haven't seen the long Census forms, myself, although it appears that 
the ancestry data was only broken down into 36 categories.  It's also unclear
if one had to choose a single category for oneself or if all applicable
categories could be indicated.  I, myself, would have had to mark all three
of those categories, since my mother is German (and that was my first childhood
language), but my father's paternal ancestry is Irish, and maternal ancestry
at least partly English (I think), not that I think it amounts to a hill of
beans one way or the other...   

Tom

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pollard				Department of Chemistry
pollard@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu		Columbia University
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark@cs.hw.ac.uk (Mark Riordan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Separation vs. integration (Was Re: The European Community Blackmailed by Greece)
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:53:01 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Jul24.092851.20554@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.161018.14257@news.nd.edu>,
>ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
>|>
>|>Firstly, a correction.  Eire is a Gaelic word and is oncorrect (in
>|>Irish courts, anyway) when used in an English sentence.  
>
>It's what the country calls itself. The English language is known for
>it's ability to absorb such foriegn words as `bungalow' which you would
>have known wer you au fait with it. The Irish courts are not an arbiter
>of the English language.

Britain kindly gave us the English language and we will therefore
use it as we see fit, ree (here read right in standard english) :-). 

>
>|>Ireland is preferred.
>
>Nope, Not in this context, we prefer that you use anything but the
>language of appologists for murder and hatred.

Who do you speak for when you say we above? 

Are you describing the Irish People as "appologists for murder and 
hatred" (sic) ?

If so does this qualify as incitement to racial hatred ?

>When do we get to vote in GB to see if we want to keep them?

Thats the style take the money, screw the place up and run. 
Britain surely owes it to the British community in N. Ireland
if not the rest of the Irish People to play a mature and constructive
role in the long process towards a settlement.

>
>Phill Hallam-Baker

MARK
-- 
| JANET:    mark@uk.ac.hw.cs   Mark Riordan, Rm G21, Computer Science Dept  |
| Internet: mark@cs.hw.ac.uk   Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton Campus,    |
|                              Edinburgh, Scotland.  (031)449-5111 x4172    |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: jaymin@maths.tcd.ie (Jo Jaquinta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: O'Connor/Zig&Zag --- Irish Musical Attitude Problems
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:22:19 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.

In article <slips@vadier.gr.osf.org>emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>Give me a break.  While I have every respect for Sinead O'Connor as a
>musician and as a person of principle, it's nevertheless
>embarrassingly clear that she shoots her mouth off far too often
>without thinking.
	Ms. O'Connor (no relation to O'Connor Down, the Irish High King) has,
what we would describe as "an attitude". This, however, is not always seen
in a negative light in Ireland. Let me quote other popular musicians of
Irish popular culture:


		SO THEN, SO THERE, SO WHAT

			Zig & Zag

	It all began in hospital the day that I was born
	The Doc he patted me on the bum I looked at him with scorn
	I said "Don't you hit me, if you know what's good for you!"
	He said "You're only a little baby, what could you do?"
	So I threw a dirty nappy, it hit him on the snot!
	He said, "You've got an attitude!"
	I said, "So then, so there, so what!"

	Down the back of the geography class the teacher said to me
	She said "Zag will you pay attention... if you please."
	She asked me where the Andes are?
	I said "Bottom of me sleeves!"
	She called me a delinquent, said "You better leave!"
	The headmaster said "You deserve what you got my boy,
	You've got an attitude!"
	I said, "So then, so there, so what!"

	Auntie Maureen called around just the other day
	I said "Oh no it's Maureen -- I've got to get away!"
	I climbed out of my window, slipped, and fell with a thud
	Guess who broke my fall, that's right, she was covered in mud!
	Muddy Maureen got to her feet and said "What an attitude you've got!"
	I turned to Auntie Maureen and said
	"So then, so there, so what!"

	I took my girlfriend denise to a snazzy restraunt
	The waiter, he came over and said "What do you want?"
	I said "Burgers, chips and beans twice please and 
	I'll 'ave 'em ala carte."
	He said "Would you like them F'lambe'ed?"
	I said "Don't you be so smart!"
	He looked at me and said "What an attitude you've got!"
	I pulled him by his dicky bow and said
	"So then, so there, so what!"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: _Gaelic_ by Roderick MacKinnon
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:38:57 GMT


In article <36131@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim) writes...
> 
>	Hello, I'm looking for a book and was hoping that someone
>out in netland would be able to help me find it.
> 
>	The book is in the Teach Yourself Books line and is called
>simply _Gaelic_.  It is a nice self-study book on Scots Gaelic by
>Roderick Mackinnon.  I've been trying to find a copy, but I've been
>told by the U.S. publishers, Random House, that the book is out of
>print indefinitely.  Does anyone have a copy that they could
>possibly sell me?  Alternately, the name, phone number, and/or
>address of a bookstore that may have a copy would also be greatly
>appreciated.
> 
I got the book in March 1990, and this is the info I entered at the time.
Hope this is of some use.

You could also try the Gaelic Books Council, Glasgow University, Glasgow,
Scotland, G12 8QQ . They have a list of every Gaelic related book in print.

Craig

Review follows:
I have come across an excellent book for anyone wishing to learn Gaelic,
I'm using myself and consider it very good value for money (324 pages
for #4.95).

It is part of the 'teach yourself' series, and is called 'teach yourself
Gaelic' funnily enough. The author is Roderick Mackinnon (now deceased).

Teach yourself is printed by Hodder and Stoughton, who may be reached
at:
 Hodder and Stoughton Ltd,  Mill Road, Dunton Green, Sevenoaks, Kent, England

their books are also available in the US from

Random House Inc, 201 East 50th St, NY, NY, 10022

ISBN in USA is 0-679-10217-5

The book also includes Exam papers from the Scottish Educational department
Gaelic learners exam as well as a dictionary.

The review on the back by The Scotsman reads 

'Extremely competently done, having the virtues of Scottish thoroughness
 and systematic teaching.'

Craig
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: _Gaelic_ by Roderick MacKinnon
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:58:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Justin Kim)

>>Teach yourself is printed by Hodder and Stoughton, who may be
>reached
>>at:
>> Hodder and Stoughton Ltd,  Mill Road, Dunton Green, Sevenoaks,
>Kent, England
>
>        Do I need a postal code to write to this address?  If I omit
>one, will a letter still get there?

No, postcodes just give the same information as the address in
a coded form. The practice at the Post Office is to sort by
postcode, and then to go back and sort by hand anything
without a postcode. So as long as the address is accurate, the
most it'll mean will be a day's delay.

It's worse to put a wrong postcode than no postcode at all,
since the result is that it will first get sent out with the
wrong batch of mail, they will then try and look for somewhere
in the given postcode area which approximates to the written
address, and only then, if you're lucky, will they realise it's
the postcode that's wrong.

Matthew Huntbach
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5224 soc.culture.british:10612
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Request for Limericks
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:20:29 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <10190@scott.ed.ac.uk>, guy@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
> 
>  >In article <1992Jul15.183528.15744@octel.com> dfair@octel.com (Donald Fair) writes:
>  >>In article <23532@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
> 
>  >>>There was a young lade from Bude
>  >>>Who went for a swim in the nude
>  >>>When a man in a punt
>  >>>Took hold of her leg
>  >>>Saying "You can't swim in here 'cos it's private!"
> 
[snippage]
>  >of it is that it invites the reader (or hearer) to predict the next
>  >line according to the rhyme scheme, where the rhyme scheme suggests a
>  >_rude_ line.
> 
> So what were we supposed to predict for the last line?  The only thing
> I can think of is "You can't swim in here 'cos it's rude", but that
> hardly counts as a rude line...
> 
If the original poster had written "...in the lake", which is, I believe, the
original second line, there might have been more point, n'est-ce pas? I suspect
that this limerick dates from ye olden dayes when it was considered lewd (an
answer) and unseemly to use such disgusting words as "nude" and "rude" in
public, to say nothing of a rhyme for "punt".
-- 

Stephen "rambling" Wilcox  |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5207 talk.politics.misc:34973 soc.rights.human:2603 eunet.politics:975 soc.culture.europe:6521
From: rob@wzv.win.tue.nl (Rob J. Nauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,talk.politics.misc,soc.rights.human,eunet.politics,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The European Community Blackmailed by Greece
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:05:59 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: Sex, UNIX & Rock 'n Roll

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

#>In article <1992Jul17.101725.29762@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew >Huntbach) writes:
#>>between Sinn Fein and SDLP. The constituency which returned the
#>>only Sinn Fein MP is West Belfast in otherwise strongly
#>>Unionist Antrim.
#>in the last election sinn fein lost west belfast to the sdlp

#I know, I didn't specify a date when I used the past tense of
#return.

#Matthew Huntbach

What the fuck does this have to do with Greece ??? Change the subject
if you stray from the original topic, fool !

Rob
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5255 misc.education:3016 sci.lang:6125 soc.culture.europe:6640 alt.native:781
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: E/ire is ainm don Sta/t.... -- Name of Country
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:36:59 GMT

--
In article <1992Jul30.083300.26930@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

|>This thread was started when someone from Finland used the
|>wrong term for the country. I wonder if the Finnish authorities
|>issued an extradition order for someone in Ireland suspected
|>of, say, child murder, would the Irish authorities be so picky
|>over the precise wording?

The order was challenged in court if I remember correctly.  I think the
situation would be the same if the warrant was incorrect.  If you want someone to blame, then blame the person that issued the warrant.

Generally we've been pretty good in handing over our own citizens accused
of terrorists crimes. 

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |

          U.S.A. here we come

          God thinks he's Jackie Charlton

       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: svilen@sofia.ks.uiuc.edu (Svilen Tzonev)
Subject: composition of the Macedonian Parliament
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:14:27 GMT

Hi everybody,

Could someone provide information about the present composition of the  
Macedonian Parliament? What parties are presented; what is their  
percentage; maybe representatives of what parties hold the major offices  
in the parliament, presidency, government? 

What about the new government?

I regret to be so ignorant.

regards and many thanks,		Svilen
From: CP6uH@plains.NoDak.edu (CP6uH)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:48:57 GMT
Organization: University of North Dakota at Grand Forks

In article <22JUL92.25810989.0050@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> K2GT@UNB.CA (George Bogavac) writes:
 >Ha! I just thought of another "quirk":
 >
 >A restident of Serbia is called "Srbijanac" or "Srbijanka", but
 >the person in question is not necessarily of Serbian
 >*nationality* - that would be "Srbin" or "Srpkinja".
 >
 >However, the only word that I know of that describes a resident
 >of Croatia is "Hrvat" or "Hrvatica". In my opinion that doesn't
 >do justice to Serbs and others who are not of Croatian
 >*nationality* and live in Croatia. Are there any ONE WORD
 >alternatives?
 >
 >G.B.

Maybe Uhrvatskojrodjensrbin ? but then Croats have so many expert when it
comes to making 52-letter words ;)

Nik
P.S. Hrvatanac, Hrvatanica? well what the heck, I can make up my own
words... ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
--
From: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Biomed Dept I.S.L.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: MAKEDONIJA
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:28:24 GMT
Reply-To: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis)
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Jul23.172437.7926@pixel.kodak.com> bucukov@bisco.kodak.com (Ilija Bucukovski (6-0998)) writes:
>
>Having lived there for 20+ years in the recent history, I feel I can state
> facts much better than people born elsewhere in the world who just look at
> things from outside.

	More, Ilcho, that is the biggist problem of most of the 
discussions going on on this panel ---> "THE FEELING THAT ONE CAN STATE
FACTS MUCH BETTER THAN OTHER PEOPLE". 

	It's not that good to discredit the people, discredit their facts.

	Pozdravi,

		- Lou




P.S. Do you think that people in former NR Albania new more about what was 
going on in their goverment and arount it, than the pople outside? There many
other examples. Or do you think that you know better what was and is going on
in the Greek part of Macedonia than the people who have lived there 20+ years?
And you opposed their oppinion regarding the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia.

The point is that is always better to analize the input that is comming outside
and COMBINE it with the information that is inside, and not just disregard it.
There are a lot of things that we don't know individualy, but not that many 
that are not known in general.

	L.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: victor@jezebel.wustl.edu (Victor Wickerhauser)
Subject: Re: Serbian language
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:15:23 GMT

In article <22JUL92.18468858.0192@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.CA> writes:
>Somebody told me that a lot of people from Zagreb speak "ekavski"
>as a "local slang". Is that true?

The Zagreb city slang contains many regional words from "zagorje" ("behind
the hill", that is, behind Mount Sljeme as seen from Zagreb) which has a lot
in common with Slovenian.  Slovenian is an "ekavski" language, which may be
where this impression arises.  A good literary source for this regional
speech is the book "Balade Petrice Kerempuha" by Miroslav Krleza, which has a
glossary in the back translating certain Zagorski words to literary Croatian.

I have noticed that Croatian writers sometimes use a few well-chosen words of
Zagreb slang to poke fun at Zagreb-centrism among Croatia's political
leaders.  I also noticed that German words abound in Zagreb slang.  "Schlep"
for example finds its way into

v                                        v
sleper = flat-bed truck("hauler"), and doslepati = haul (e.g. "haul yourself")

In any case, it is quite easy to use such fine nuances of language in Croatia
to enrich discussion, since well-read people are fond of using regional
variations.  One reason to maintain such fine distinctions is to enlarge the
range of expression.  I expect that any trends to unify the Croatian and
Serbian literary languages or any of the myriad other variants have been
killed off by current events.


Cheers,
Victor

PS.  Would you say "Zivijela Hrvatska" or "Zivela Hrvatska"?

----
Prof. M. Victor Wickerhauser (314)935-6771  <victor@jezebel.wustl.edu>
Dept. of Mathematics, Washington University, St. Louis, MO  63130  USA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: neven@halibut.ECE.ORST.EDU (Neven Orhanovic;737-3448;;757-1803;halibut)
Subject: Re: Serbian language
Summary: A few ije/je/e examples. 
Organization: Oregon State University - Univ. Computing Services
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:36:59 GMT

In article <21JUL92.21335755.0053@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.CA> writes:
>
>Unfortunately, I don't have the book in question, but I would
>appreciate if you could post some examples on gramatical differences
>and spelling differences. By spelling differences I mean an example
>where the Croatian language doesn't follow the rule: "Pisi kao sto
>govoris..." (something like that :-).

Here are some ije/je/e examples that Serbs don't have to worry about.

	ije --> je
	----------
		cvijet --> cvjetovi 
		dijeliti --> djeljiv

	ije --> e
	---------
		brijeg --> bregovi  
		upotrijebiti --> upotrebljiv
		
		variation: 
		   lijep --> ljepota   snijeg --> snjegovi

	ije --> {0}
	----------
		umrijeti --> umrem
		prodrijeti --> prodrem

	ije --> i
	---------
		dijela --> dio
		cijela --> cio
		donijela --> donio

There is a whole bunch of rules for these (hundreds of words that
are affected) and I won't go into them here. The point is that they 
are a part of the Croatian literary language and a Croat has to learn 
them. (And these are only words that have a recognizable counterpart
in the Serbian language and avoid the \v{c} and \'{c} characters.) 
Also, small ije/je/e variations often lead to different meanings. 
Consider these examples:
                                                             v  
redak --- umanjenica od red   <---->   rijedak --- koji nije cest

sjedim --- stanje tijela      <---->   sijedim --- postajati sijed
               v 
svet --- neporocan            <---->   svijet --- ljudi, zemlja

uspe --- prezent od usuti     <---->   uspije --- prez. od uspjeti

etc, etc.

The Serbian language does not have this differing possibility.

Enough for today (it really takes time to type these things :-) 
Maybe I'll post some other types of examples in the future.)
I would still advise anyone who is interested in the Croatian 
language to get hold of: 
  - S. Babic, B. Finka, and M. Mogus, "Hrvatski pravopis", 
    Skolska knjiga, Zagreb, 1971.

Regards,
Neven