Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:34:52 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Caste Barriers

4 Messages, 195 Lines
*-----
From:         "Charles Bailey, University of Houston" <LIB3@UHUPVM1>
Subject:      Re: Caste barriers in Universities
Regrettably, there are several problems related to the effective
integration of non-MLS computer specialists into libraries:

     o    Faculty status:  Many academic librarians have faculty
          or pseudo-faculty status.  The MLS is seen as
          significant in this context.  It is not unusual for
          librarians in research libraries to have second masters
          degrees in a subject area (some have doctorates).
          Academic librarians often must publish and engage in
          other professional activities to be promoted and to
          gain tenure.

     o    Salary equity:  Library salaries are not especially
          high.  When computer staff are hired, their salaries
          are set in relation to other staff.  This salary level
          is likely to be less than they could make outside of
          libraries.

     o    Upward mobility:  Many libraries have relatively small
          computer support staffs, and they do not offer as many
          opportunities for internal advancement as computer
          centers.  Getting a better job often means changing
          libraries; moving out of state to a new job is not
          uncommon.  After a certain point, a "glass ceiling"
          effect may come into play.  For example, computer work
          experience may not be seen as equivalent to public or
          technical services experience when library directors
          are chosen (there have been a few exceptions).

Best Regards,
Charles

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles W. Bailey, Jr.             Voice: (713) 743-9804   |
| Assistant Director For Systems     FAX:   (713) 743-9748   |
| University Libraries               BITNET: LIB3@UHUPVM1    |
| University of Houston              Internet:               |
| Houston, TX 77204-2091             LIB3@UHUPVM1.UH.EDU     |
|------------------------------------------------------------|
| Co-Editor, Advances in Library Automation and Networking   |
| Editor-in-Chief, The Public-Access Computer Systems Review |
| Co-Editor, Public-Access Computer Systems News             |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
*-----
From: Ken Laws <LAWS@ai.sri.com>
Subject: Re: Caste Barriers
> From John D. Boggs:
>    And perhaps some of these computer firms can start accepting
> people without CS degrees?  There are also good Masters degree
> librarians looking for work.

Agreed.  I'm doing what I can to bring the two together.
Posting such a suggestion to PACS-L is likely to have little
effect, though -- the jobs-related Usenet newsgroups would
be better forums.

CS employment seems to be opening up a bit, but the last
year has seen mostly demands for programmers with 5 years
of experience in specific technologies.  Large corporations
can afford to slot people narrowly; small start-ups can't
afford to train people.  CS is primarily an engineering field,
and "the bottom line" drives all employment decisions.

I'm not saying that library science should be any different.
If you need these entry-level slots as a step in the MLS
career path, that's OK.  No different from a teaching hospital,
I guess.  Or a guild.  If the goal is just to get the best
work done at the least cost, then computer scientists might
offer some possibilities.  Note that I'm not talking about
hired-gun programmers -- I assume that you're already
hiring them where appropriate.  I'm thinking about MS/PhD
personnel trained in computational knowledge representation,
database theory, information retrieval, document image
processing, data compression, human-computer interfaces, etc.
There may be some of us wanting a second career in library
science (in preference to starving in AI/CS) but not yet ready
to undertake the MLS curriculum.  Training us for library
automation positions would be a bit different from training
MLS holders, but it's not inconceivable.  You might even
enjoy opening our eyes while using our computational skills.

Advertising for MLS/MSCS instead of just MLS doesn't mean
you have to hire one of us -- it just expands your options
a bit.  Give us a chance to show our resumes.

I'll keep trying to open doors in the other direction also.

                                        -- Ken
*-----
From:         Debra Schneider <DSCHNEID@INDYSTTI>
Subject:      Re:      Caste barriers in universities
On the flip side....would a MLS be acceptable for a position requiring
a CS degree?
*-----
From:         Claudia Lynch <AS04@UNTVM1>
Subject:      Re: Caste barriers in Universities
>From article <720999956.0.LAWS@AI.SRI.COM>, by         Ken Laws
> <LAWS@ai.sri.com>:
>>> "applicants must have an MLS degree"
>>
>> As Bill Arms notes, the MLS is nearly always required in
>> job ads on PACS-L -- even for library automation jobs that
>> would otherwise be of interest to readers of my AI newsletter.
>> It's like saying "CS degree holders need not apply," which
>> may be a stronger statement than the advertising institution
>> intends to make.  I'm not really interested in whether this
>> is "guild behavior," but I do urge advertisers to consider
>> softening the MLS requirement.  There are plenty of good
>> MS and PhD computer scientists looking for work, and some of
>> them might be interested in entry-level library positions.
>> The cross fertilization could be good for both our fields.
>>
>>                                       -- Ken
>>
>     And perhaps some of these computer firms can start accepting
>people without CS degrees?  There are also good Masters degree
>librarians looking for work.

I too, have found it "interesting" that just about every job advertised
on PACS-L requires an MLS, no matter what the job description. I can
understand the MLS requriement for some of the jobs, but for the
really technical (computing wise) ones it seems a bit of a reach. I
have come to the conclusion that it is to inflate the value of an MLS.
Much as requiring an MBA for a lot of well-paying management positions
causes people to attend graduate schools to get MBAs, requiring an MLS
for well-paying (relatively) library positions will cause people to go
back to school for an MLS.

Since this topic has come up, I thought it might be of interest to some
people on this list to see the backgrounds of the people who work in
my organization (Academic Computing Services at the University of
North Texas). We pride ourselves on attempting to hire the best
people available for the job. You might be surprised at their
backgrounds. I will not include individual's names, just their
job titles.

Senior Director of Academic Computing -- B.A. History, M.F.A. Photography,
   M.A. Library Science, Ph.D. Information Science.

Assistant Director of Academic Computing Services -- Bachelor of Music,
   Master of Music, Doctor of Musical Arts.

VAX/UNIX Systems Manager -- B.S. Computer Sciences, M.S. Computer Sciences.

UNIX Systems Programmer -- B.S. Computer Sciences.

General Access Lab Manager -- B.S. candidate, Electronics Technology.

Academic Database Administrator -- Bachelor of Business Administration,
   M.B.A. Marketing.

Academic Mainframe Programmer/Analyst -- B.A. Mathematics, M.S. Mathematics.

Research and Statistical Programming Support Services Manager -- B.A.
   Political Science, M.A. Political Science, Ph.D. candidate Political
   Science.

Statistical Programming Consultant -- B.A. Political Science, M.A.
   Political Science, Ph.D. candidate Political Science.

Statistical Programming Consultant -- B.S. Education, Mathematics and
   Physics, M.B.A. Finance, Ph.D. candidate Sociology.

Documentation Services (that's me) -- B.A. Psychology and Sociology,
   M.A. Sociology.

Administrative Assistant -- B.S. Secretarial Administration.

Each of these individuals, despite what may seem as unconventional
majors for an Academic Computing group [actually they're not that
uncommon, I have found] brings something to the job that others
didn't have. Perhaps it is through things they have learned on
their own, research projects they have been involved in, past jobs
they have held, etc. Moral: You can't judge a person by their major.
B.T.W. most of the computer operators we have hired for the past
15 years have been music majors. There have been numerous studies
correlating musical ability and computing ability. It seems
that the ability to recognize patterns is imperative to both
endeavors.

=======================================================================
                                             |      /+++++++++++
Claudia Lynch                                |      |           |
Documentation Services Manager               |      | ^      () |
Academic Computing Services                  |      |     -     |
University of North Texas Computing Center   |      |     O     |
UNT Box 13495                                |      |---------/|
Denton, Texas   76203                        |
Voice: 817-565-2324  FAX: 817-565-4060       |   Standard disclaimer
                                             |   graffito