From: Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: women and minority
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:02:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: samba.1992Jul28.170204.11492
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <ATAYLOR.92Jul27142920@gauss.nmsu.edu> ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) writes:
>
>Alt.sex removed from newsgroup line.
>
>Followup to soc.men
>
><In article <1992Jul27.104430.14396@deeptht.armory.com> rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
><   In article <11388@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
><   >In article <1992Jul22.152506.26829@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
><   >> In article <11335@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
><   ># #- That's why the liberals have redefined racism as only something done
><   ># #- by whites -- racism by blacks is by definition not racism, because
><   ># #- they aren't running the society.  Didn't you know that?
><   >#  
><   ># 	What "liberals"???
><   ># 
><   ># 	I don't know of many self-professed liberals who admire Louis
><   ># Farrakhan or Sister Souljah.
><   ># 
><   ># /Loren
><   >
><   >I know quite a few self-professed liberals who are prepared to
><   >justify both, and to make claims that racism isn't really racism
><   >if a black person does it, because racism is something that only
><   >the institutional power structure can do.
><   >Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
><   -------------------------
>
><   You might find a few young naive things out there who do, Cramer, but
><   by far most liberals and progressives do not.
>	
>	So is Jesse Jackson a "young naive thing"? Is Louis
>	Farrakhan a "young naive thing"? Is Walter Mondale
>	a "young naive thing"?
>
>	Or are all the above not "liberal" and/or "progressive"?
>
	Depends on your definition, I suppose.  I'd consider Mondale liberal,
but I know of no recent statement from him to the effect that black folks 
can't be racist; if you've got a verified quote, you should post it.
Farrakhan I'd describe as a religious racist in a similar mold to Falwell and
others of that ilk.  Jackson I'd call liberal and I wouldn't be surprised to
hear him make this claim although, again, I don't know if he has or not.
	I'd consider myself liberal but I don't buy this "only white people
can be racist" routine, nor do most of my friends who would also call
themselves "liberal" or "progressive", so we're at something of a standstill.
	Problem is, everybody's arguing from the basis of anecdote and
individual experience.  If you have evidence that a random sampling of 
Americans who call themselves "liberal" or "progressive" hold to this idea,
you should probably post it, since it would give some credibility to your
argument.  Otherwise it's just your opinion against someone else's.

Chuck
No .sig, no frills, no foolin'



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