HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:45:10 CST
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      comment on military

One of my co-workers was in the Navy and he told us that the Navy
made them attend church and that is why he doesn't go now, he
also said that they made them donate to the United Way and that
is why he won't support them now. This was back in the early or
mid 70's and he was stationed in Hawaii. It seems like it hasn't
changed, but at least the Navy  cares enough about them to make
them go, some might hear the Gosple while there and become saved.
Just think if their were some good ole 'fire and brimstone' chaplins
who could tell those young men the truth.
 Just another comment from my observations.

   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst from Dallas - Texas
"I know worse things about myself that you will ever say about me." Anon
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:18:44 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      So true...

Thanks again Leo!!!!  I love this ICB...
It's readable enough for me to even understand it.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:58:48 EST
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      CORRECTION OF SERIOUS TYPO re PROLIFE NEWS

When I gave the Steve Frezza's address for requesting ProLife News
I misread my written note.  The correct address is
frezza@ee.pitt.edu

As I've said before, I'd fire me as my typist if I didn't work so cheap.
Marty Helgesen
From: wjgood@UNIXLAND.NATICK.MA.US ((Bill Good))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Good News
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:39:43 GMT
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              at Nov 5, 92 05:59:49 pm

Michael Kline cc'd a message to a Bible Study List and a "Blow the Trumpet" List
 t
 Does anyone have Internet addresses for them and/or subsription info?

Thanks!
Bill <wjgood@unixland.natick.ma.us>



d
From: 9120092@ul.ie
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Clinton has arrived, Jesus is on His way!
Date: 4 Nov 92 18:28:34 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

I certainly hope this gets through, all out-going communiques are screened
and unless it is something *really* good or worth while the message generally
gets thrown on the bits and bytes junk pile!
Congrat's to Los Americanos for getting a new president , here in Ireland
we could do with a new one too. However when it comes to the 
"Christian Crunch" on the moralistic issues such as Abortion ( This is a heavy
heavy issue in Ireland at the moment ), and family matters. Face it, if 2 in 4
marriages break up then emotionallly and spiritually where are the kids 
( if any ) left?
Bush focused and world events too much, Clinton is going to be a "Homeboy"
and concentrate on the US. I see the US getting worse when it comes to the
Christian issues. A sure sign that Jesus is on his way back! The US is
( sorry, *was* ) an affluent nation, I think God gave them that wealth
in order to use it for missions work, both at home and abroad. I don't think
God intended for us to pave the parking lots and build bigger brighter churches.
The church I attend is in a rented prefab, and every Sunday it is hopping with
the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying that we should all be paupers but the love
of money is a very common thing. I speaking as one from "the outside" while
most of you who read this are United Statespersons ( note I said persons and
not men !), do you think the Church in general is doing enough for the
poor of the US? I think the Church flunked it a bit on the issue of the poor,
the Bible says that the Government should carry the sword, not the purse!
The Church should be feeding the poor, taking care of the old folk, and 
educating the people. But of course we are not living in a Christian world!
The wonderful thing amongst all this chaos is that God is in control! Yep
the buck stops with Him! He said all this was going to happen in it just
indicates that this is the "season" of the Bridegrooms arrival! The Bible
says that we will know the season, but not the day. This is the season 
alright, I've got a seat reserved, do you?

I pray that Clinton does something good for America. 

God Bless...

		Peter "Woppi Choo" O'Brien

Peter O'Brien
2nd Year Computer Systems
Department of Computer Systems
University of Limerick
Ireland
E-Mail : 9120092@ul.ie
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:47:27 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      I ask your prayers....

Well, G...

The Lord doesn't give talent and not let us use it, especially
when it's for Him.
There is a place for you...maybe not where you are, maybe you
won't find out where you fit in until you graduate, or even later!

But you are willing to do His will; you are working, not expecting
things to just fall from heaven.
The Lord cares for you, you know that...

The last shall be first!  How you handle your placement could
be a great witness...   maybe that's what the Lord needs you to do.

Be open to His working,  chin up (I know it is)...
My prayers are with you...
Love ya,
Carol
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid)
Subject: Re: Cell Group Churches -- contrasted with "normal" churches
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:22:11 GMT

Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET> writes:

>In a message of Tue, 3 Nov 1992 22:32:54 GMT
>jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid) wrote:

>> There are two things which I think should be our primary
>> objectives: evangelism and discipleship.  Nurture and outreach.  Equipping
>> and sending.  "Go and make disciples of all nations, _baptizing them_...
>> and _teaching them_...."  Yet evangelism and discipleship are two areas I
>> see as being very weak in the church.

>I agree. But given the state that we are in I would turn the words
>around making it discipleship and evangelism. This is because I think
>that most people in our church (and I believe it to be pretty above
>average - no self-sufficiency!) are Christians, but not disciples. If
>you don't get what I mean you may freely ask.

Yes, quite right!  In fact, I thought about turning them around for that
very reason.  Discipleship leads to evangelism leads to discipleship leads
to evangelism...  It's an endless cycle, or it *should* be.  The sad truth
is that in traditional churches, these are not impressed upon believers as
the priorities they should be, and in fact, the building-based, program-
based nature of these churches actually hinders this from happening.

>But don't you think that we can combine good things from
>both concepts? "Building-centered" large meetings once a week (or once a
>month?) and "...(what was it)-centered" meetings in addition at least
>once a week. Many churches in Germany begin to realize that this is
>necessary and start cell-groups (or home groups, as we call them, i.e.
>they meet in s.o.'s home) without abolishing the meetings of the whole
>church on Sunday mornings. This works quite well!

Large cell churches have 3 types of gatherings: Cells (small groups),
Congregations (regional gathering of cells), and Celebrations (the whole
church).  The names may vary.  The point is that I am not talking about
home churches which are independent from each other; cells make up a body,
and the body gathers together on a regular basis.

There is a subtle but big difference between a church *with* small groups
and a *small group-based church*.  A cell church is not building-based or
program-based, even when everyone gathers together in one place.  It's not
even meeting-based.  Church life does not consist of a large meeting on
Sunday and a small meeting during the week -- it is all week long, cell
member discipling cell member, and cell members (plural -- as a team)
reaching out to non-Christians.

I have written many other messages about cell group churches, but the
messages have expired.  If you (or anybody) are interested in them, please
send me e-mail.

-- 
Jon Reid    j-reid@uiuc.edu    GEnie: THE.REIDS
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
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Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1992 00:45:00 -0400
From:         STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA
Subject:      Re: Prayer Request

Hello Steve.  One thing that comes to mind about your neighbour,  that is
to remind him of the wonderful help God gave Him during his bereavement,
how he experienced God's warmth and support thru family and friends,  and
how God has taken care of him since.  This will lift his eyes and thots off
the impossible problems and set them on his Father and his brother,  Jesus,
the One who is NOT ASHAMED to call us brethern.  I believe thjat sharing with
your neighbour along these lines will help him experience the protection and
love of the Lord.  Perhaps you could also share with him and discuss Psalms
91 and also 139,  especially that verse where David realized how many thots
God was thinking about him each day!

Bless you for being such a good neighbour and friend.

Pastor Bill
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:51:26 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Blood of Christ
              10 Nov 1992 08:44:11 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

You toying with semantics.
The O.T. used covering of sins as the sacrificial term.
We can say  :

Expunged

Expiated

Eradicated

Exterminated

Extricated


Any more terms, hmmm???



Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:47:20 CST
From:         "(CADDC Dude)" <hale@DINO.WES.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Predestination

	I cannot resist throwing in my few cents.

	Gen 21:12-13
"... it is through Isaac that your offspring will be
reckoned. I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also ..."
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were chosen they did not choose.  In Malachi
it says here is how I love you, that I loved Jacob and hated Esau and laid
his heritage to waste. How much human choosing was going on?

	Exodus 9:16
	"But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show
you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Again did man choose through his own will?

	Exodus 33:19
	"... I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whom I will have compassion." You can do all the willing and
choosing you want but if God wants you it will happen.

	Joshua 11:20
        "For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage
war against Isreal, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating
them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses."

        Sounds like an all powerful God making the choices and man does
not have a whole lot of say.  Lets look at some NT references now.

	Matthew 20:23
	"Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to
sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to
those for whom they have BEEN prepared by my Father."

	Matthew 24:22
	"... but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

	Luke 8:10
	"... secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but
to others I speak in parables ..."

	John 6:39
	"... that I shall lose none of all that he has GIVEN me ..."

	Acts 2:23
	"... by God's set purpose and foreknowledge ..."

	Romans 8:28-30
	 "... called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he
also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son ... And those
he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified." Guess what folks we don't have
anything to do with it do we.

	It is very clear to me the Bible describes God as the all powerful
with us as the actors in a grand show put on for the universe to see what
being separate from God is like.

	Brothers and Sisters in Christ humble yourselves and let God reign
supreme in your lifes that His will be done and not ours.

Matthew "The name is Malachi."
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 23:27:43 -0700
From:         "(Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu)"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Predestination v. free will (not really a part of this thread)

Dan:

        Another thought occurred to me regarding your analogy of the
parent who puts up a stair gate.  Maybe the reason why God has to do
the same thing where some people are concerned is because He knows they
are never going to be mature enough to have that gate removed.  Pretty
sobering...

                                God Bless,



                                  Glenn
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:50:26 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Defining `Free Will'
              13 Nov 1992 16:16:40 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Gareth ;

How am I patronizing?
Some objective proof, please sir.
Again, if you have an accusation, PLEASE E-mail it ... won't yuh fella?


Jesse
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Arlie Davis)
Subject: Re: Trinity...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:54:05 GMT
Reply-To: Arlie Davis <aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
Organization: University of Louisville

In <9211091514.AA06742@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx> A16905@ITESO.BITNET writes:

> Of course Jesus is God !

> Read Revelations.

> The Alpha and Omega is God and also the Lamb.
> The First and the Last is God and also the Lamb.
> Worthy of all praise, honoy, glory.....is God and also the Lamb.

I'm sorry, but this is terribly poor English.  Could you please elaborate?

"The Alpha and Omega is God and also the Lamb."

First, "The Alpha and Omega" is the subject of the sentence.  So why is the
verb, "to be", singular, along with the nominative subject, "God"?
Two distinct things cannot be the same thing, by the very definition of
the word "distinct".

"The First and the Last is God and also the Lamb."

Ok, things are getting better, at least grammatically.  But what is the "Lamb",
what precisely?  Are God and the Lamb the same?  And if so, why do they have
two different names?

"Worthy of all praise, honoy, glory.....is God and also the Lamb."

Uh oh, things are getting worse again.  You imply, now, that God and the Lamb
are distinct now, that they are not the same thing.  Else, why would you use
the word "also", and why would you list both of the names?  When I use English,
I don't indicate the same thing twice with two names.  For example, if a
friend of mine, say, "Angela", was also known as "Zimmerscribble", I wouldn't
say, "Hey, maybe I'll go to lunch with Angela and Zimmerscribble."  Because
the two names refer to the same thing.

A little consistency, and simple mastery of the language, will greatly
increase your credibility, Christians.

> Shalom,
> Memo.
-- 
lrwx------   1 aldavi01 emacsstu       9 Jun  6 12:43 .signature -> /dev/null
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:27:52 -0500
From:         MG_BROWN@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Military and Church

Having two of my nephews in the Army (one a Desert Storm Veteran), I have
also heard that church service was a way for them to "take a break" from
boot camp.  But I also thank God that my nephews (both Christians) had
a chance to attend church while enlisted. Louis, in particular, used to
have a home-cooked meal every weekend with a family from the church that
he went to while in boot camp in Georgia. He enjoyed the fellowship and
his "family away from home"
May God bless all those who made my nephews (and other enlisted men and
women) feel at home during their service.
                                            Mel
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:10:00 CST
From:         "dr. Daniel Edward Taylor" <AUTENRKL@SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism

> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:36:24 GMT
> From: "(Dr Nancy's Sweetie)" <kilroy%GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
> Subject: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism
>
> Recently, on our local PBS station, there was a documentary on the ill-fated
> Donner Party.
>
    [...]
> the survivors later wrote to a cousin "Never take no cut-offs, and hurry along
> as fast as you can.")  The 46 people who survived did so in part by eating the
> flesh of those who expired.
>
    Wasn't there a family that refused to eat the flesh.  I think that
    they were the only family where all the members survived.
    Please forgive me if this is wrong, it is from old memory.
    [...]
>
> Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
> "The situation was horrible, but not without its fascination."
>                                                          -- Ambrose Bierce
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
kevin autenrieth            U N D E R   T H E   G A Z E   O F   G O D
autenrkl@sluvca.slu.edu             dr. Daniel Edward Taylor
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
 At the foot of the Cross -- Clouds, rain, fire -- on glassHouse records
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:39:36 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: KJV Bible on a server to download

You're wellcome Julie, it is a pleasure.

Actually, OLB is kind of a classic here on CHRISTIA.


Shalom,
Memo.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:09:28 EST
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Thanks for the Rush.

In article <CHRISTIA%92110608583136@ASUACAD.BITNET>, "DRCV06::GRAHAM"
<GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL> says:

>I want Christians to closly observe this brutal and evil man for what he
>really is.  You will not get truth out of him, but you will get self
>serving lies and scandal mongering on every show.  Observe that this man is
>a mean spirited naysayer who will not stand, for one minute, anyone who
>disagrees with him unless he finds in that person material for fun-making.

What on earth?  I can't believe you've listened to him for any length of time,
and come to that conclusion.  Mean spirited?  I'd say the opposite, if any-
thing.  And what do you mean he doesn't stand for anyone disagreeing?  This is
simply not true.  He has never, ever, tried to shove the pro-life position
(for example) down anyone's throat.  He'll discuss the issue, but it can
be done without arguing or being overbearing; he proves that.  I've never
heard -anyone- discuss the issue -more- tactfully or tolerantly.

Dan, I don't know where you got these ideas about Rush Limbaugh, but I'd
urge you to listen to him for some  length of time, and see how
much you've been taking seriously than you shouldn't have been... that
might be why you don't like him, I don't know.  In any case, the charges
you've made against him just aren't so.

By the way, Rush is not particularly religious; I wouldn't count him as
being in the "religious right."  He almost never discusses religion on
the air (except to say that it's ridiculous to make God illegal in public
schools).

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:12:00 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?

Excerpts from christia: 10-Nov-92 Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD? Jesse
Carnes@LSUVM.BITNE (323)

> Eric ;

> The dead man necessarily has no Free will. He wills nothing.  He is DEAD.

This is nothing more than a tradition of men with no grounding in Scripture.

> Lazarus could not WILL to come forth from the dead until Christ ENABLED
> him to do so, EXTRINSICALLY.

Wrongo.  Lazarus was in the Limbo of the Fathers and could certainly
will to come forth from the dead, it was merely impossible to do so.
The question of whether a man can choose is different from whether he
can carry out his choice.  A paralyzed person can will to walk, but s/he
cannot physically walk.  In fact, there are accounts of people in
"comas" who were in fact conscious, just completely shut off from their
senses, and these, though they were free to will whatever they wished,
it was impossible for them to carry it out.

> So Eric, How do you KNOW we have a Free will and could you tell me what
> the BIBLE states a free will to be, by definition?

> How do you KNOW for certain, within Biblical perameters that our wills are
> merely WEAKENED ... by Biblical definition?

How do you know that we do not?  How do you KNOW, within Biblical
parameters that our wills are totally bound?

At the risk of contradicting St. Augustine without having read him, I
assert that Scripture says nothing directly about free will, and whether
we have it or not.  What you and I believe are nothing more than
traditions handed down to us.  I believe the traditions that were
determined by the church through the prayerful discernment of all the
bishops of the Christian church in ecumenical council in the 5th
century.  You believe in the traditions of one John Calvin in the 17th
century.

But I should like to see what St. Augustine wrote on this subject and
what Scriptures he understood as referring to the mystery of our will.

Eric
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:10:19 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: righteousness
              4 Nov 1992 10:52:40 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

Dear Mark ;

Nice Argumentum ad Homonim.
Mark, I would have to piece together a study which would take many hours.
I do not have a terminal at home, nor a modem, nor much time to edit
something at work.  Nevertheless, I take my idea from various passages
from the Bible and I have to deduce the rest.
Even the Trinitarian doctrine and "Hypostatic Union of Christ's body and soul"
doctrines are deduced from what we DO have.
Deduction is not wrong, unless we go beyond the purview of the Biblical
statements.



Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:38:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Point to Eric.

Eric, you are correct, good point.  We do have, in addition to spreading
the gospel, the great responsibility of easing pain and poverty whenever
and wherever we can.  This, however, still has nothing whatever to do with
organizations like the Christian Coalition.  If anything, we should be so
busy doing good that we don't have time to campaign for rights.

Dan Graham
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