HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ibhan@husc8.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Performa 600
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:36:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.ibhan.722241390
 <1992Nov12.171906.221@menudo.uh.edu> <6349.2b0bd585@hayes.com>

bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:

>In article <1992Nov12.171906.221@menudo.uh.edu>, cosc184z@menudo.uh.edu (David Alten) writes:
>> Actually, doesn't the Performa 600 have a 16 bit bus, where the vx has a
>> true 32 bit one?  This should really slow down the Performa....

>No, there's no difference in the bus width.

>I believe there is a difference in the clock speed. I think the IIvx has
>the accelerator card built-in, and the Performa 600 is a re-packaged IIvi.

>If I'm wrong on the differences, the Performa 600 must be a IIvx complete.

The difference is simple - The Performa 600 is a IIvx without a cache or
math coprocessor.
-- 
             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
From: tloomis@halcyon.com (thomas loomis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Mac.vs.486
Summary: Where can I get Mac vs. 486 comparisons?
Keywords: benchmarks, Mac, 486
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:53:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: nwnexus.1992Nov23.155337.18809
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505

Anyone out there know where I can get some articles comparing the
performances of Macs to Intel based machines? I am particularly
interested in Mac vs. 486 based ones, but ANY will do, since it
is easy to extrapolate the performance of faster Intel machines 
from slower ones (since there are numerous up-and-down-the-line
Intel benchmarks published, and likewise numerous uadtl Mac ones).
Thanks!
					tloomis@halcyon.com

Post here; I read this group often.
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Resource fork saves space
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:25:44 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
[Richard Ling's posting deleted]

>Did you Amiga types forget how to read? He was specifically comparing
               ^^^^^
>WordPerfect, not Word!

>I could trot out a few Mac word processing applications that are significantly
>smaller, too!

Dear Bill,
 
	How many times do we have to remind you?  please... treat us 
("Amiga types") as individuals.  Richard Ling was the one who compared
Excellence! with Wordperfect, not our everyday "Amiga types."  Please
don't generalise, thank you.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu

PS: I see nothing wrong seriously wrong about the Macs, and I certainly
    dont consider the Amiga as the do-all-and-end-all computer.  Yet, 
    I like it (the Amiga), and sure as heck will defend for it when people
    start bashing for no reasons. =)
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!)
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:02:04 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Nov15.014655.25724@cs.uow.edu.au> u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:
>In <83567@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>
>>>   I don't think so.  I have used 5 A3000's so far, and all five look 
>>>"workstation quality."

They look "workstation quality", but are they?  Enquiring minds want
to know :-)

>>Please.  You have just insulted every Sun (>=sparc1+), NeXT, Mac II,
>>VAX, and PC in the world.  Please do not use Amiga and workstation
>>in the same sentence :-).
>
>Thank god for the smiley.
>
>is an 8086 PC a workstation?

Ten years ago, it was.

>as for the Mac II, how can it be a workstation and the A3000 not, when the
>A3000 is faster, has better hardware, a proper multitasking OS?

The Mac II is a Mac, the A3000 is an Amiga.

>Or do you define "Workstation == Any relatively powerful computer that costs
>far too much"?

Workstation == Any computer that is generally used for high-end stuff

>My A500 is a workstation.  I do work on it.  Boom-boom.
>________________________________
>Richard.  u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au
>#include <standard_disclaimer.h>

An A500 is an Amiga.  An Amiga is not a workstation.  Boom-boom-SPLAT!

[For the humor impared :-) * 10^6]

-- 
********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********
Windows NT:                  * Disclaimer:  I speak for myself *
                             ***********************************
You WANT your hard drive trashed now.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: maynard@leah.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley)
Subject: Re: The future of Apple
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:09:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.155226.6538@cuug.ab.ca>, wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance
Wilcox 260-8100) writes:
>In article <ibhan.721678175@husc10> ibhan@husc10.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan)
>writes:
>>I don't see your point.  The Newton and the PowerBooks perform entirely
>>different functions.  
>>-- 
>>             --      Ishir Bhan (ibhan@husc.harvard.edu)      --
>
>
>OK, what does/will Newton do? Nobody wants to say.
>

Look. I don't know what Newton and PDAs will do yet. But I do know that
people knocking them sound suspiciously to me like all those bright sparks
at DEC and IBM who went on about how the world only needs ten computers, or
no-one needs
personal computers or whatever. Use your brain, for gods sake. One thing 
these machines could do right now that most everyone could use is e-mail. 
Everyone likes phone. Everyone likes answering machines, and faxes. E-mail
is a natural addition to these.

Maynard Handley
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!)
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:57:18 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:

>This Mac Plus has a 68000, 1 Mb of RAM, and two low-density floppy drives.
>There is NO WAY this machine can pre-emptively multitask.  Hell, it can't
>multitask at all.  A/UX costs several thousand dollars, on top of all the
>extra hardware needed to beef up the computer to support it?  No thanks,
>keep it... if I want to multitask I'll use my cheapo Amiga...  I imagine it
>will do a better job than A/UX anyway.

A Mac Plus can multitask pre-emptively.  The only problem is that the OS
doesn't support it.  (The early Sun stations were not much better than 
a Mac Plus.  Well... they may had 1 more MB of RAM and a harddisk... but
that's about it).  One can write an OS to make an Atari 400 multitask,
you know...


>Does A/UX allow you to multitask two Mac programs, or only UNIX-specific
>programs?  If I can't run two Mac apps simultaneously, what is the point?

Yes, A/UX does allow one to run Mac apps.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:24:15 GMT

In <83763@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>
>Processor card extra $4000.
 
     Huh?

>I think Amigas are nicr machines, [and I cannot type ], but until I
>see a decent network card and connectivity, I will remain skeptical.

     You mean like the arcnet and ethernet cards and TCP/IP software
they've been shipping for year, or the SANA0II networking standard?
Or are you looking for third-party stuff like the AppleTalk, Novell client,
etc. products that also exist?

>C= has done a lot of vaporware for me to belive in the Emplant.  When
>I see it, I will take a [mostly] unbiased look at it.  Until then,
>my Mac will do.

     Emplant isn't Commodore's vaporware, it's made by Utilities Unlimited.
Strictly speaking, it's not vaporware any more - lots of people have them,
but I've yet to hear of a single person being able to get one working
using the pre-beta quality software that supports the board.

>PS:  Amiga people do have something to brag about, a decently multitasking
>     OS years before anyone else.  But, I will still remain w/ the Mac.

.... which seems to be holding onto its decent multitasking OS (NOT!) long
after the others have gotten one.



-- 
Don Lloyd                / "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of \
don@chopin.udel.edu      | another computer is a kludge.  It has nothing to do |
GeNIE: D.LLOYD7          \ with the Intel CPU"  - Jerry Shekhel                /
BIX: DRL
From: jstc_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (j. collins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh advocacy (really!)
Date: 24 Nov 92 04:26:35 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Nov23.091951.10945@cs.uow.edu.au> u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:


>The Mac still can't multitask.  It's OS is huge and still doesn't get much
>done.  You can have multiple applications open, but only one of them gets
>any processor time.  Backgrounded applications on the Mac aren't actually
>doing anything; they only wake up when you bring them to the front.

WAKE UP!!!
This changed over a year and a half ago with the release of system 7.  
System 6 did processing like what you said above, but background applications
in system 7 do actually do things in the background.

Please from now on get your facts straight before you post, you are just
wasting my time and yours with innaccurate posts.

>Richard.  u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au
>#include <standard_disclaimer.h> 

-justin m. collins <jstc_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu>
From: wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 260-8100)
Subject: Re: specifically comparing NeXT with Mac...
Organization: Calgary UNIX Users' Group
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:29:06 GMT

In article <BxtnF3.HpD@javelin.sim.es.com> mmunson@animal.es.com (Mark Munson) writes:
>Go back and look at a PC magazine from '85.  There were a lot of PC titles
>then, but it doesn't even compare with the number of significant Mac
>titles today.  

As the number of Mac titles today doesn't compare to the number of DOS
titles today.

>  MM> Now, the Mac has a large collection of excellent applications, and the 
>  MM> others have a smaller subset of poorer applications, and an even smaller
>  MM> base of equivalent applications.
>
>TW> I would guess there are far fewer poor applications on the NeXT and Amiga
>TW> combined than on the Mac. That's because the Mac has more applications.
>
>We were talking about PC applications here.  Your response seems... confused!

No, we weren't talking about PC's in this part. The PC does not have a
smaller base of equivalent applications than the Mac. The PC is not usually
referred to as 'the others'. Go back and read the message in context.

>
>  MM> Just look at the Amiga.  Lots of titles, but the quality is inferior.  But
>  MM> hey, it was cheaper!  What a deal!?
>
>  MM>[MGM]
>
>
>TW> Well, that's an opinion. Of course that's all it is. I often hear
>TW> DOS users say 'The Mac is a toy'. That's another opinion. They're 
>TW> both about equally valid.
>
>TW> Terry Wilcox
>
>I suppose that if I said "a Yugo is inferior to a Ford Probe." you'd claim
>that this was only an opinion and was equally valid to its converse. 

Yup. Fords are garbage. At least you know the Yugo is junk. The Ford
is a high priced piece of junk. If you're going to buy junk, get it cheap.
>
>There was an important point being made here about the distinction between
>the PC vs. Mac argument of '84/85 and todays arguments in favor of the Mac.
>It's too bad that the TW didn't get the major point.
>
>
I don't think I've ever been referred to as 'the TW' before.

The major point is that history tends to repeat itself. It already
is.

Terry Wilcox


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT..
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:15:49 GMT

In article D0C0CA20@vms.csd.mu.edu, 2rs9acevedom@vms.csd.mu.edu (Mario Acevedo) writes:
>In article <1992Nov15.072616.4261@sol.cs.wmich.edu>, 22black@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Martin Black) writes:
>>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>
>>>jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes:
>>>>Does an A3000 have a 25 MHz 040, like the Quadra 700???
>>>>
>
>Well, not exactly.  The Quadra 700 was not able to run System 7.0 when it first
>came out.  The A3000 with a 25Mhz 040 with Amax II was able too, before the
>Quadra 700.
>

The Quadra (insert number here) ->STILL<- can't run system 7.0! It requires
7.0.1 or later. And it was released with that system, which was
very likely not a co-incidence.

The same is true for numerous other Macs.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: What IBM stands for...
Reply-To: heikki.suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:56:54 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:39:16 GMT, ekaftan@tolten.puc.cl (ekaftan) said:

> 	HI advocates, I'm compiling a set of funny meanings for IBM.

> Here goes what I've got:

> IBM : 	Idiots Built Me
> 	Inferior But Markeatable
> 	It's Better Manually

The funniest I know is:

        International Business Machines

-Heikki
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: wilcoxt@cuug.ab.ca (Terrance Wilcox 260-8100)
Subject: Re: The future of Apple
Organization: Calgary UNIX Users' Group
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:18:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.010930.19624@msc.cornell.edu> maynard@leah.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes:
>>OK, what does/will Newton do? Nobody wants to say.
>>
>
>Look. I don't know what Newton and PDAs will do yet. But I do know that
>people knocking them sound suspiciously to me like all those bright sparks
>at DEC and IBM who went on about how the world only needs ten computers, or
>no-one needs
>personal computers or whatever. Use your brain, for gods sake. One thing 
>these machines could do right now that most everyone could use is e-mail. 
>Everyone likes phone. Everyone likes answering machines, and faxes. E-mail
>is a natural addition to these.
>
>Maynard Handley

I've already got email in my home. It's called UUCP. I can turn my
computer into a giant voice-mail box. Any computer can do email. The
PowerBooks would make great email machines.

I am using my brain. I'm asking questions. The real idiots are those
who try to stifle questions because the answers might be unpleasant.
You sound awfully defensive about PDA's. That kind of response usually
arises from blind faith. Faith is fine in religion, but Apple is no
temple. You should get out more often.

Terry Wilcox






Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D.)
Subject: Re: Comp.Sys.Mac.Advocacy Message Area
Reply-To: aland@cs.brandeis.edu
Organization: As little as possible
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:40:31 GMT

Jim.Redelfs@macnet.omahug.org (Jim Redelfs) writes:

>This is the "Comp.Sys.Mac.Advocacy" message area.  Please confine discussion
>to topics advocating Macintosh.

Hmmm...

>Messages in this area area relayed to numerous other systems.

Thousands if not millions...

>Observe the numbers in the upper-left corner.  The FIRST number indicates the
>current message.  The second number indicates the HIGHEST (last) message
>available in this area.  If you would like to catch-up to the LAST message
>available, enter its number at the next prompt.

Didn't work...

>MacNet Omaha Subscribers may post messages here and are encouraged to do so!

However, if they are local messages, _PLEASE_ set your distribution to
'local' as follows:  Put a line into the header of your message
reading

Distribution: local

if possible.  If you can't edit your message's header, please check
with your System Administrator or ask him/her to check with someone.

Thanks,

>JR
>                              Jim Redelfs
>                            System Operator
	-=Alan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: toj8j@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (prufrock)
Subject: Re: How MS could annoy Apple
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:44:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.225417.26591@leland.Stanford.EDU> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu writes:
>Daniel Norman Johnson writes 
>> ...  I never have to open more
>> than 4 [finder windows]. Generally this doesn't happen tho
>> as I can just hold down the option key and then whenever I
>> open a folder, the window I double-clicked in to do it closes.
>
>So how do you trace your steps back?  I find the NeXT viewer's  
>graphical path a very useful tool.

You hit the command (cloverleaf or apple) key and click on the name of the
folder in its folder window.  It shows you all the folders that your folder
is "nested" in in the form of a pulldown menu; you can then pick the folder
in the hierarchy that you want to go to.  Granted, you can't see the whole
tree, so if you wanted to go to folder 2 that's inside folder A when you're
in folder C (path:  A:1:B:C), it's a two-step process.  But no big hardship
there.

As far as usefulness goes, I concede that it's a matter of what you're used to.
Certainly, if I had a NeXT on my desk I'd get used to its filesystem pdq :).

tim jarrett

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: robertk@rkrajewski.lotus.com (Robert Krajewski)
Subject: Re: PostScript Costs (Was:  EGGPLANT, IMPLANT...)
Organization: Lotus Development Corporation
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:37:34

In article <1992Nov20.053723.17624@leland.Stanford.EDU> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:

   Frank R. Dana Jr. writes
   >|> But don't blame Apple.  Adobe gets a $500-1000 license fee 
   >|> depending on what level of Postcript that a printer uses.
   > 
   > That's sick.
   > 

   So buying a Mac may seem cheaper (depending on which you buy), but  
   then you'll still have to fork out the money if you want PostScript.   

Adobe's license cut might have been exaggerated. DEC sells a
Postscript Level 2 printer for around $1100, which is very
competitive with non-Postscript printers.


Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2804 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29693
From: putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:44:45 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis

In article <1992Nov17.010120.8535@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws19.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <37070@cbmvax.commodore.com> kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:
>>	4.  It requires you to illegally software-copy Mac ROMs.
>
>	It requires you to have Mac roms, in either hardware form or software
>form. BTW, today I made a backup of my Workbench disk. Is CBM gonna come 
>after me? No, they can't, since the law states that once you buy a software
>package for your computer, you have the right to use it on any one computer
>at any time. The same goes with your ROM. If you buy a Mac, you can get a 
>copy of the ROM via software and use it with AMAX or Emplant legally, so long 
>as no two copies run at the same time ie running the original Mac and the
>Emplant at the same time is running from two copies.

Oh, what a great idea this Emplant is! Let me see if I understand
this right: An Amiga user, in order to legally emulate a Macintosh, is going
to buy a Macintosh?!?!?!  How brilliant!! What a great idea!

Of course, as the earlier posting about copying a friend's Mac ROMS
shows, Amiga/Emplant users will probably just pirate the ROMS.
What a lovely bunch of people.

>      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
>PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
>    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."

| David M. A. Putzolu               | putzolu@cs.ucdavis.edu               |
| Senior, CS & Psych, U.C. Davis    | op disclaimer(opinion : ptr mine)    |
| "Put your hand on the TV screen and repeat after me: I do hereby promise |
| only to watch the Ren & Stimpy show,  to make underleg noises during the |
| good scenes,  to wear unwashed lederhosen  every single day  of the rest |
| of my life! That's it! You are in our secret club!"                      |
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2791 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29621
From: putzolu@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (David Putzolu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT...
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:20:41 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis

In article <1992Nov11.123644.4422@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws20.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <torrie.721468352@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>>dtiberio@csws20.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>>>	NONE OF THE ABOVE.
>>>	EMPLANT = DEATH OF HIGH PRICED MACINTOSH.
>>>	FULL MACINTOSH QUADRA SYSTEMS FOR UNDER $4,000.
>>
>>  Hmmm.  Look at my price list
>>
>>M5921LL/A Macintosh Quadra 700 4MB RAM             $3227.00
>>
>>Been there, done that.
>
>	Does this machine you quote have a monitor or keyboard? Is that the
>list price or the underground basement price? Isn't the 700 outdated now?

Ah yes, that immature "I don't have the absolutely newest computer,
so mine is outdated." How sad that some people are so obsessed by
piddling things like "mine is the newest" rather than "I can get done
what I need to."

>	People have already received their Emplants. You must also receive
>an Emplant. All must receive an Emplant.
>
>	YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
>
> BIG DREW IS WATCHING YOU BIG DREW IS WATCHING YOU BIG DREW IS WATCHING YOU

>      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
>PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
>    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."

How depressing this is. After a nice two week period during which the 
preemptive v. cooperative thing had finally died and reasonable
discussion was occurring again. I posted on a NeXT group and got
reasonable, adult responses. I thought, "hey, maybe computer people
are mature!"

And an Amiga person had to ruin it. How typical. It really seems
that Amiga users are the brats of the computer world. Or at least
the above quoted poster is.

"Anti-Viral Software? Nah, I'm careful enough"     ______-==-______
                                       ____-------=----------------=-------____
                 ________________  _ _-    --------________________--------
                (______________(_||_) _______ /
                   /_____/_____            _-
Ex-Capt David Putzolu          \__________-
U.S.S. Yamato
Senior, CS & Psych, U.C.Davis - putzolu@cs.ucdavis.edu - my opinion