HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-Christ
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:28:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: sscvx1.30SEP199218284170
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <Sep30.224154.4519@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, hg798502@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Hugh Graham writes...
>I believe the implication of this is that public bigotry should be
>tolerated by we hard-nosed Brits.  Well, we certainly have the nouse
>to ignore the old fort (sp?), it seems most people switch him off mentally 
                   ^^^^

I like fort better than fart, more accurate.

>or Kill-file-wise after one or two exchanges.  Afraid I did.
              ^^^

What does this mean?                 
> 
>Unfortunatly this is a public medium and a Japanese student was
>offended, disillusioned etc only recently.  This strikes me as

I told him that all British people were extremely nice, except me.

>unnecessary.  Intellectual discussion does nor need to be
>provoked by ignorance.  LG seems to be pleased when he generates
             ^^^^^^^^^

Provocative I may be, but ignorant I'm not.  Anyway I'm not pleased -
whenever anyone criticises me on the network I beat my wife.

>static on the bandwidth.
               ^^^^^^^^^
Silly Hugh - fond of buzzwords but doesn't take the trouble to use them
correctly.  Bandwidth is the width of the band, you can generate static
on the band, not on the bandwidth.

> 
>An ego is a terrible thing to strut.
                               ^^^^^
What does this mean?
> 
>Hugh
>Not a CSU spokesthing.

I should hope not!  Even in Colorado I think they'd be able to find someone
a little better at expressing himself than you.
>D
>A
>offended only recently.

Did it spoil your whole day?
>--
>hg798502@longs.lance.colostate.edu
>I am not a free man, I am a number.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Is Clinton Wilson?
Organization: :noitazinagrO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:25:00 GMT

John Francis (johnf@apollo.hp.com) wrote:
: In article <1992Oct1.135017.27650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
: >
: >For example, in the U.S. at the present time, Government health care programs
: >cost about 4 or 5 times per person what comparable private programs cost and 
: >yet we are constantly bombarded by people who want the government to do more.
: 
: A few points:
: 
:     3)  U.S. health care as a whole is too expensive because, in part:
: 
:          o  Many insurance companies will only pay for actual treatment,
:             not for preventative medicine.  This encourages people to use
:             expensive means of health care (that are covered by insurance)
:             rather than methods which are cheaper overall, but have a
:             higher out-of-pocket cost.
HMO's are catching on fast and encourage early visits for ailments by
minimizing up-front costs.

: 
:          o  A disgustingly high percentage of U.S. medical bills goes to
:             cover malpractice insurance.  Unfortunately the U.S. courts
Not so, according to a recent series in Consumer Reports.  Bureaucracy
and having to deal with a multiplicity of payers for service are the
principal villains.

Malpractice hurts most in high-risk specialties like surgery and
childbirth.  In those areas physicians have been known to threaten to
pull out of states where laws permit large awards.

--
||)) There is no truth to the rumor that:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))|
||)) Lotus are suing Apple for copying the look and feel of their lawsuits )|
||))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))|
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) | Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY   |
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Some of my best friends are speculators
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:55:46 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep30.083148.26082@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> 
|> The British Electorate has for the past four general elections
|> voted in a party whose main platform is belt-tightening. It
|> ought to be obvious after this latest crisis that the loony
|> right are part of the problem not part of the solution.

This is a very foolish comment, for two reasons.

First, it is factually incorrect.   Both in the UK and the US, 
the main conservative policy has been deregulation.   That 
means returning control of assets to their owners.   The 
assumption behind this is that the owners of assets ought to 
be allowed to deploy them as they see fit.

The second reason is that this is actually *orthogonal* to
belt-tightening or slackening.    If a government returns 
control to citizens by reducing regulation, that government
is saying "We don't *have* a policy about your belt.  It's
*your* belt, so *you* decide how to wear it".

This is one area where the US is genuinely ahead of the UK.
The US population has self-reliance as a positive value,
including the notion that individuals can fail, make unwise
choices, buy too many foreign goods, over-invest in houses,
cause property bubbles.   You name it: they can do it.

The British have had so many decades of Nanny-knows-best
that even after Nanny says "OK, Johnny, you're on your own,
but be careful" then every time Johnny falls and skins his
knee, he still turns around and blames Nanny.

Listen, folks.   Nanny retired, OK?

jon.
From: jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Germany (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:20:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.
In-reply-to: david@postman.gr.osf.org's message of 30 Sep 92 11:22:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.112254.14344@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:

   Ditto for similar German newspapers.  Bild ran the
   headline "SUPERMARK" with such comments in the article
   as "Mark storms off battlefield victorious over
   pound and lira".

Comments in bad taste now follow:


Not content with occupying all the sunbeds at Europe's holiday resorts,
Germany has turned its attention to the crumbling economies and
currencies of its neighbours. What will be the next target? Poland? :-)

Deutschland uber alles!

		Jim
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:14:14 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <26529@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
|> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> > And now you've hit on the very reason why I could never be a
|> >Libertarian - apart from them being a mob of freeloading scum,
|> >of course.
|> 
|> I think you have this backwards. The libertarian position is that all
|> costs should be internalised and that people should pay for their own
|> consumption rather than freeload from others.

And since they lie about that, they are scum.

|> 
|> Re investment decisions. What brings you to believe that the government
|> can invest people's money more wisely than people themselves? 

Since you evidently havn't read a word I've written in the past
two weeks, what makes you think you are ready to ask such a question?

Hint: I don't.

jon.
From: metceram@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: New 10p coin; offer to all Germans
Summary: is the 1p still visible??
Date: 3 Oct 92 05:12:56 GMT
Reply-To: slking@epx.cis.umn.edu
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <6250091@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>, ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
> 
> I just got my first new 10p (GBP 0.10) piece today.
> QUESTION : When did it come out, anyone ?
> 
> FYI, it's the same design as the old one.  The old one was the same size as
> the even older 2/- coin.  The new one is the same size as the old 5p piece,
> which in turn was the same size as the even older 1/- piece.
> QUESTION : When did we get rid of the old 5p piece ?  
> QUESTION : Can I still change all the ones I have in the spaghetti jar at 
>            home at banks ?
> 
> Actually, I don't think I'd change them anyway; it'd be better to wait until
> vending machines and phone boxes get converted to use the new 10p and use the
> old 5p pieces in them :-$ (<-- "put your money where your mouth is").
> 
> This is also good news for Germans.  (no, not because they all want to buy
> sterling, numbskull !  Nul points for that suggestion).  No, because once again
> they have a ready supply of foreign coins to use instead of 1DM pieces in
> *their* vending machines.
> 
> To all Germans :  I will sell you 1DM-piece clones for, oh say 20p.  Any takers
> ?  Let's BOTH double our money.  Now *THIS* is the kind of European Monetary
> Union I like !!
> 
> Byeeee !!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.


You... you, sterling selling speculating @#!!*&#$@ <fume, rant, rave>
Simon

P.S. How long before the pound shrinks to such an extent that tweezers
 are standard issue for bank tellers ?
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-Christ
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:19:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.190901.17880@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> 
> Lest you think I am one of these people that expects obsequious service
> and "Have a Nice Day" constantly -- hardly!  
> I just think I should be treated with a modicum of respect by people
> who are trying to get my money. 

Ah, but you're making the assumption that going shopping or out for
dinner in Britain is supposed to be an enjoyable experience. It's
not. You're supposed to sit through abominable service, get soup
spilled on you, have rude waiters ignore you, and then--when you're
asked if you've enjoyed your meal that tasted like polystyrene 
peanuts--reply, "Gosh! Rather!" Then you fork out two months'
salary and stagger to the nearest vomitorium.

You foreigners just don't get it.

--
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Return to UK - Queries.
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:04:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
>I left Ipswich about this time last year. At that time the place
>struck me as particularly economically depressed. The little flowing
>through the docks (mainly timber since Felixstowe containerised) seemed
>to have dropped off even more, there had just been 300 made redundant
>at Pauls' grain works near the docks, the USAF bases that helped support
>the retail sector were closing down, BT were operating Project Sovreign
>to cut staff levels, the insurance companies were experiencing losses
>and even Fisons were starting out on a difficult time for their share price.
>This recession has been bad all over the UK, but Ipswich seems to have been
>hit particularly hard.
>
>Many of the shops in the town centre were closed down with boards over
>the windows. In the week I left, the Austin Reed branch was closing down.
>A woman working there said that although the shop was right in front of
>the door to the big new Buttermarket development that was being built,
>she didn't beleive that any shops would be opening there so that would be
>to no advantage.
>
>This is a purely personal impression over 12 months old, but my advice
>would be to avoid Ipswich if you want more than a hypothetical
>aquaintance with employment.

I don't see any reason to particularly advise avoiding Ipswich.
Your description of the place could apply to almost anywhere in
Britain after 13 years of "economic miracle" Tory government.
It would be marginally more useful to point out a town that
hasn't had large-scale redundancies, and whose shopping centre
is full and bustling. Offhand, I can't think of any.

Matthew Huntbach
From: mbm@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Malcolm Mladenovic)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: I've found a copy of the Maastrict Treaty
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:17:36 GMT
Followup-To: uk.politics
Organization: UNIX Centre, ICL, Bracknell, UK

In article <BvLCJE.zq@newcastle.ac.uk> w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>From: lacom@dxcern.cern.ch (Giuseppe La Commare)
>Subject: Re: Maastricht
>
>You can get a copy of the Treaty via anonymous ftp in princeton.edu, the file 
>is /pub/Maastricht.Traty.tar.Z
>
>Here is a copy of the readme:
>
>The files on this disc contain the text of the latest addition 
>to the Treaty on European Union signed at Maastricht on the 7th 
>February 1992.  It should preferably be read in conjunction with 
>the previous treaties, which it amends and extends.
>File format of this self-extracting archive is ASCII.
>
>[deleted to save space]
>These files have been put together by Susan Nelson & David Pollard:
>

I recently cam across this version on the 'free' disk that accompanied one
of the PC magazines in the UK, either _Computer Shopper_ or _PC Plus_.
Whichever publication it was, the October issue is the relevant one.

-Malcolm
From: hg798502@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Hugh Graham)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The end of society as we know it (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:08:58 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <1992Oct5.100047.27503@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>
>go.  For wave, the Severn is probably the only suitable site for
>'tidal' power.  However, there has also been a great deal of research
>into 'farming' wave power.  That looks very promising, and it looks
>like pretty near anywhere along the coast (of which we've got a lot)
>would do.


As I recall, the University of Bristol was one of the centres of research
into the nodding duck wave power project.  However, someone else had screwed
up the wave spectrum measurements off the British coast and it transpired
that the promising wave power project would be economically unviable.
Since then (70's?) of course, energy prices have increased, but not in
real terms.  A barrel of oil costs less in real terms now than it did
in '73 so I doubt that wave power is yet viable.

The Severn estuary has the second highest tidal range in the world
(after the Bay of Fundy, Canada) and it's not the tidal wave but the
30ft rise and fall in the water level that would be tapped for power.
This would mess up the estuary environment, however, and the overall
environmental impact is unclear.  Again the Univ. Bristol has done
lots of research.  I believe the only major tidal power station is
in France and it's small compared with the potential Severn project.

Now, if we could import cheap overseas government subsidised waves...

Hugh
Doing his level best not to express CSU's opinions.
--
hg798502@longs.lance.colostate.edu
I am not a free man, I am a number.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.europe
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-Christ
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:01:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.165624.7018@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>In referenced article, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>The EC
>>would be fine without the Germans - this has nothing to do with the Tories
>>pathetic attempts to blame the Germans for the mismanagement of the British
>>economy, it just has to do with the fact that the Germans are extremely
>>objectionable people, and I won't support any organisation that requires
>>having contactswith them.
>

Why don't you just unsubscribe from the net, in that case, Laurence? 

Just kidding,
Bill


+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13616 soc.culture.usa:7621
From: sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:17:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.223349.13659@athena.cs.uga.edu> fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes:
>sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>
>> It's bonkers because Shakespeare's English is now 375 or so years old.
>> Why should we be expecting 14-year-olds to comprehend it? 
>(some deleted)
>selectively.  Show me the ones who can hear Shakespeare's voice through
>the distortions of language, or even just the ones who are willing to try;
>I have other treasures to share with them.  As for the ones who can't or
>won't try, let 'em go back to their pizza and Nintendo.  A strong back is
>a terrible thing to waste.

Personally, I have a lot more respect for the average student than you do.
A decent mind is terribly thing to turn off.

>> Personally, I'd be quite happy to see Shakespeare completely taken out
>> of high school curricula, except for advanced (special) classes and -
>> perhaps - university-qualification level senior classes.
>
>
>     What did you use to pick out the privileged few in these special
>classes?  Canned tests from some dimbulb testing service?  It makes con-
>siderably more sense to select those who will be invited to the feast by 
>offering all the children an actual taste of the food that is to be served.
>Those who *like* it get the invitations; those who go Bleahhh, I Want My
>MTV...well, let them have what they like also.

I didn't pick them out, the school system (at least here), already
does it.  It's called streaming.  And I don't call throwing
Shakespeare at 13-year-olds who've never even read a whole novel an
"invitation".  Seems more like a threat to me.

And this English PhD candidate *likes* music videos.

Stephanie Fysh
Dept of English
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:21:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.062354.18381@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.112614.3849@darwin.ntu.edu.au> salter_duke@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes:
>>I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British school-children
>>are going to have a compulsory test on a Shakespeare play at the age of 14.
>>
>>Is this really true, or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
>>"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories have gone
>>stark staring bonkers?
>
>Why is this bonkers?  It sounds like an excellent idea (although it might
>be better to require more than one play).
>

Here, here. The high school schedule for the AP exam runs something like
this:
	Ninth grade: Julius Caesar, Romeo and Juliet
	Tenth grade: Macbeth, Much Ado about Nothing
	Eleventh grade: Othello, MND, As You Like It
	Twelfth grade: Hamlet, Lear, Twelfth Night, I Henry VI

So I am constantly amazed at the number of students who have never read
ANY Shakespeare by the time they reach college. Although there is some
talk now about the cultural imperialism inherent in Shakespeare's works,
that does not excuse their being excluded completely from the curriculum.
One may as well exclude from the curriculum all history before 1980, all
science before Utah's cold fusion, all geography not necessary to get to
Florida for spring break. After all, a mind that thinks Shakespeare is 
irrelevent is "One who knows only his own generation..." Boulder alumni
can fill in the ellipses themselves.

Michael Wise
Fearing and Loathing in Las Vegas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: sgi
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 01:39:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.161623.15259@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> 
|> Anyhow, interesting you mention Japan, because I often invoke them in
|> support of my feelings.  It is my understanding that the Japanese have a
|> strong record of government subsidies to private industry, both in terms
|> of direct subsidy, and more discreetly hidden as funded research projects.

I think that the truth here is that there is really no such thing 
as a government subsidy.  Governments have no money of their own: 
all they can do is move other people's money around.    A subsidy 
has to come from either your taxpayers or from your domestic 
customers.

In the case of Japan, industry has extracted subsidies from its
domestic customers, by charging higher prices in its home market,
but for that to work, the *perceived* quality of Japanese goods
had to be higher, overall.   It won't work for ever.

What Government did for Japanese industry was a facilitation job,
They organized joint research projects and cartels, but it was
Japanese industry itself, by and large, that staffed them.  That
will work.

|> And, that they do this not for strategic defense reasons, but 
|> simply to ensure that they have strong industries placed to 
|> compete in particular markets which they believe will be 
|> commercially important in future.

Right, what Japan did as a country is not too different to what
a company does.   It invested current wealth in future products
and production.    As in Germany, companies in Japan seem to
both take a longer view of investment, and also have more 
confidence that the fruits of that investment will not be
confiscated by the Government in pursuit of whatever crazy
scheme the socialists have dreamed up this month.

In both Germany and Japan, tax money is spent more on
infrastructure, education, telecommunications, the promotion
of industry, and research and development, and less on propping
up antiquated industries.  As always, the exception proves
the rule: we all know how stupid it is for the Japanese
to keep eating domestic rice at eight times the world price,
rather than importing it from, so why do we think it would be 
so smart to keep museum-piece coalmines open?

jon. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: sgi
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 21:31:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.203547.26591@menudo.uh.edu>, chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789") writes:
|> 
|> [the saga continues...]
|> >
|> >However, I don't agree that what is a good model in those
|> >areas necessarily extends to all the minor areas where local
|> >politicians would *like* to be your serice provider.    Just
|> >because it's efficient to have the Government build the
|>               ^^^^^^^^^
|> >fighter jets and aircraft carriers, doesn't mean that it's
|> >efficient for City Hall to haul your garbage and maintain the
|> >roads.
|> >
|> 
|> Hmmmm... I'm not sure what this means, Jon. 

It means what I explained earlier in the same posting.   We could
organize defence on a bake sale basis, but how many of us know
enough about defence to make sensible decisions?    It's simply 
more efficient to have central design offices and decision making
and for the government collect the money from the rest of us to
pay for it all.

|>                             US defense (sic) contractors are the
|> most bloated, inefficient, corrupt, etc etc. organizations known 
|> in the industrial world. We've all heard the stories about the 
|> $500 toilet seats etc

But this says nothing.   In the US, the vast majority of defence
contractors are not owned by the Govt.   They are companies.   It
may be true that they are bloated, but that says nothing about the
efficiency of Government paying for defence out of taxes versus the
citizens attempting to do it on an individual basis.

jon.