HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ptgarvin@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (PTed Garvin)
Subject: Re: Shut up, already!!!
Keywords: angry young man
Organization: Discordian Information Production and Distribution, Ltd
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:02:38 GMT

birdman@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Christopher Kush) writes:


>language versions, Mary was just a "young woman;" it was MIStranslated into
>English (or possibly Latin) as "virgin") do it for you? Besides which, since

It's worse than that.  When the Septuagint was created, it was mistranslated
then, so I'd say it was mistranslated into Greek.

-- 
"...just when I had you wriggling in the crushing grip of reason, too..."
ptgarvin@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu/SCA: Padraig Cosfhota o Ulad / Namron, Anst
Disclaimer: Fragile. Contents inflammable. Do not use near open flame.
## Write In Crash! # yerazunis@cthulu.enet.dec.com for President, '92! ##
From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Mormonism
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:14:12 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Apr16.125629.54533@cc.usu.edu>, slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:

[Bunch-O-Junk (tm) deleted]

Well... I was just browsing through my response here and noticed
that it wasn't there.

Sorry for posting a whole article of included text, but my file editor
decided that I really had nothing to say, I guess.


AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Oooo I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS!!!!!  :-(  :-(

-- 
Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: Court rules JW booklet recommends "untrue" testimony under oath
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:26:41 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:

>adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>Huh?  Just because someone claims a certain religion doesn't imply that the
>>religion sanctions their actions.  I bet there is at least one JW in
>>prison.

>	None in the so-called civilized world. 
Oh?  Does that include the US?  How much money would you like to put on
this? 

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,rec.arts.comics
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Lucifer's name and the end of Season of Mists
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:26:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.184148.9226@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
>      What other explanation is there for the "foot dragging" on releasing
>full translations of the Scrolls?  The Nag Hammadi Library was discovered
>AFTER the Dead Sea Scrolls and has been fully translated to English and in
>one volum for almost 15 years now.
The scrolls are longer and in worse shape--plus there are nowhere near
enough people originally assigned.
The real reason seems to be the academic competition to publish first
before anyone else can get a chance.
-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431, Honda CM400 rider          rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Yale University Department of Chemistry            We hack anything.
My mind is now for rent: C/Unix,Vacuum Tech,Machining,P-Chemist. Hire me, eh? 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: dhammers@pacific.urbana.mcd.mot.com (David Hammerslag)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Quality of life
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:36:48 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center

In article <22427@goofy.Apple.COM>, ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>I have a short an interesting note: Yesterday I realized that my
>life is really nice, I don't need to worry about the original sin,
>the devil, placement in hell, wheel of karma, tabuus about women,
>sexist issues, ten commandments, kosher food, worshipping of 8-legged
>gods, mantras, inner voices, holy wars or following the right path.
>
>What's the name of the religion I follow? It's is called NULL :-). I
>really recommend it.
>
>Cheers, happiness, and joy!
>Kent

That was indeed an interesting note.  It got me to thinking:  Like Kent,
I don't worry about any of those things either.  And, like Kent, I really
recommend my religion: Christianity.  
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hammerslag            | Keep an open mind, but not so open that people 
dhammers@urbana.mcd.mot.com | throw garbage in. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:7201 alt.conspiracy:6375
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:41:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: cms.167CADCAB.MEDELMA
Organization: Wayne State University

In article <92106.134635IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (The Xanadian) writes:
 
>
>Okay, I bite.  I figured that I *will* X-post my article.  I feel that my
>epiphany should be shared... especially since I don't get them too often.
>*grin*
>
>---------------------------------
>
>In article <92106.134022IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, The Xanadian
><IO10081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <that's me> says:
>>
>><A guy talks about these implants>
>>
>>Now something has just occurred to me... and it may belong in talk.religion.
>>misc, but here goes:
>>
>>I read in a book about the Antichrist a looong time ago <I think the title
>>was 'The Late Great Planet Earth'> about how the Antichrist would have each
>>human being tagged with this '666' number.
>>
>>Could it *be*, that this microelectronic tracking device is the predecessor
>>to the 'number'?  The way 'Samurai_Writer' put it, it would seem, to me,
>>that it, in fact, *is*.
>>
>>OK, enough palaver for now.  *grin*
>
>I hope I got my point across.  When you *really* think about it... it's kinda
>scary, ain't it...
 
Forget it, Jack; you missed the boat. The wackos already told us that
the mark of the beast is cleverly concealed in the universal product
code. According to a pamphlet pressed into my hands by a rather deranged
looking soul, we'll soon have to get our very own UPC tatooed on.
 
Hey, I've got a better one; notice how everyone you meet these days is
wearing a pager? And remember that 1950s movie where Zontar controlled
humans by implanting something in their necks? Well, I mean, it's just
so *obvious*, innit? I think it's a commie rightist zionist papist
trans-pacific crypto unarian cereolagical plot to wipe our memories
of the JFK engram. I mean, hey, can you *prove* that it's not? Can you?
Can you? I *thought* so.
                --who, me?
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JWs vs. Christians
Date: 6 Apr 92 11:02:54 GMT
Organization: University of Joensuu

jwindley%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes:

>asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:
>>jwindley%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes:
>>
>>>This is all a bit hard to swallow.  If you told us something about the
>>>background of this magical committee, we might believe you.  What
>>>training do these people have?  Are they MDs?  Have they received any
>>>formal medical education?  Are they surgeons?  Have they published
>>>their findings?  How are those publications received by other experts
>>>in the field?  In short, why should we listen to them?
>>
>>	Yes.

>Andreas, read my paragraph VERY carefully, and read your one-word
>answer, and try to understand why I'm still not satisfied.  Frankly,
>you have relied heavily in recent days on one-word answers which leave
>everything to be desired.  Let me rephrase myself:

	Do you know the reason ? When I'm in the CS-class at 12.14 and the 
	class begins at 12.15 and you've 40 mail entries in your mailbox, I'm
	bit busy. I'M SORRY, BUT I'M ONLY HUMAN.


>Please tell us the names of one or more of the individuals on the
>WTBTS's committee which studies blood transfusions.

	Hmm. this is a difficult question. I skip it now and answer to the
	original question instead: Why not reading the booklet about blood 
	transfusions yourself ? If you read (and surgeons read) as you boast
	you do, you would be willing to order it FOR FREE from

			25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, N.Y. 11201

	or from some of our brothers here, for instance Charlie Channel. The 
	reason, why I can't do it is that I don't live in the USA and I don't
	have any of them left in English.

	Now, the different countries have different committees and I can't help
	you in the case you want the names of US-members.

	I think it's better that you order the booklet before we continue any
	further this discussion, because it's better that you study the subject
	by yourself. Also, the booklet is available in the Kingdom Hall near 
	you + there would be more advice + literature references to this 
	subject. Especially old Awake!s have good articles about the dangers of
	the transfusion, in the Kingdom Hall there's also an Index, where you
	could find those articles. 

	I think if you contact our Headquarters in N.Y. you'll get a good     
	answer for your all questions.
-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint
From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: No such thing as atheism...
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:13:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Apr12.211319.15159
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr11.130250.6060@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:
>Fancying that the reader will find him clever, John Muehlhausen writes:
>
>>I would like to say that an athiest cannot prove by any method that
>>there is no God, so he is agnostic (looking for the truth).  The atheist then
>>says "Well then there can be no religion but agnosticism, because no religion
>>can _prove_ their claims".
>
>He proclaims:
>
>>Wrong.
>
>apparently on the basis of a rather peculiar understanding of "proof",
>equating it with personal conviction. Well ok, let's go with that.
>
>>No religion can prove their claims with
>>the atheist's tools - logic, reason, science, etc.  However I do not doubt
>>that many (if not most) religious people would say that they are convinced
>>100% of their religion and that to them it is proven true, which it is.
>
>...as long as "proven" here is understood as "proven only to themselves",
>which doesn't mean very much, does it? But that's ok...
>
>>The
>>fact that they have emotion and respect for intuition and feeling in their
>>toolbox does not make it any less proof _for them_.  So then the atheist says
>>"I have those things too".  Well that may be but in order to use them in
>
>"may be"? Are you possibly characterizing atheists as being meat-clad
>computers?
>
>>defense of atheism you would be resorting to the tactics of any common
>>religion!
>
>You mean proof by personal conviction? Well, proof is proof, m'boy.
>
>>In using these things the atheist has undermined the basis of atheism,
>
>which you seem to think is the proof of God's non-existence by
>reason and scientific means. To use your word, Wrong.
>atheist: one who denies the existence of God. hint: denies != disproves.
>Here, try this on for size:
>The (a)theist cannot (dis)prove God's existence, but believes it extremely
>(un)likely.
>
>>Guess what?!?
>
>You've been caught in youthful ignorance again?
>
>>All you atheists do not exist!  You are agnostic, so face it.
>
>Leaving aside the fact that you're wrong, what does this belief
>buy you? What do you gain for yourself by mentally erasing the existences
>of people you dislike or have strong disagreements with?
>
>--
>Peter M. Yadlowsky              |         Laden e-mail runs
>Academic Computing Center       | Bumbling, creaking through the net
>University of Virginia          |         Sysadmins tremble.
>pmy@Virginia.EDU                |                      - after Buson


>>:-) :-) :-)  (You must admit that was clever of me! - and probably even true!)

You forgot to include this line... :-)

John M.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
	<MIB.92Apr13150042@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr13.223853.23560@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:11:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.223853.23560@athena.cs.uga.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:

   In article <MIB.92Apr13150042@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) writes:
   >Let's see just how well you handle this one yourself, with the very
   >issue you cite.  Do you wear leather?  Do you eat meat?  Do you eat
   >dairy products?
   >
   >I know people, Christians among them, who abstain from all these for
   >purely moral reasons.  How well do you bear up under this standard?

   There is such a thing as "a doubtful disputation."  In the case of meat
   offered to idols, this directly effects Christian teaching.  Wearing leather
   is generally okay according to Christian teaching.  John the Baptist
   wore camels hair.  Jesus ate fish.  These moral reasons the in the example
   you give do not deal with Christian teaching.  They do not deal with sin.
   Very few informed Christians would honestly say that eating meat or
   wearing leather is contrary to Christian teaching.

Paul didn't say "if very few".  Paul said (according to you) that if
there is disagreement, then you should abstain.  Well, there *is*
disagreement.  It seems that you have changed your reading now.  So be
it.

You say that "very few informed Christians" find eating meat imorral.
You are probably right.  Keep in mind that some, like the Seventh Day
Adventists, have taught the immorality of eating *any* meat for a long
time now.  What percentage of Christians must find something immoral
before you will abstain from exercising your freedom and avoid it
"lest you lead your brother astray"?  10%?  30%?  50%?

	-mib
--
Michael Innis Bushnell    | Blessed is the King
Email: mib@gnu.ai.mit.edu |   who comes in the name of the Lord!
Phone (H) +1 617 625 4518 | Peace in heaven,
Phone (W) +1 617 253 8568 |   and glory in the highest heaven!
From: gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:51:29 GMT
Organization: Centre Interuniversitaire en Calcul Mathematique Algebrique

In article <1992Apr10.041703.10698@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.033217.3373@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
Dyer) writes:

>>You don't have the first idea what the experience of gay people is.
>>Shut up about us.  Try listening.

>OK, what am I going to hear?  Here's a prediction:  What is "right" or
>"wrong" is relative to every person and there are no absolutes when it comes
>to a relationship with God.

>Is this what I will hear?  It is what I have heard so far.

I haven't heard it from anyone so far--this sounds like a complete red
herring. In fact, there *are* things which we need to pay attention to
because they are serious mistakes. What I've been trying to get across
is that *you* are making one of these mistakes. This seems to me to
become clearer as you post more. It is not a matter of the "morality
of homosexuality", as if the only issue is that gay people stand
accused, and the question is, can they get off?  To me it is also a
question of the morality of the kind of judgmental and condemnatory
attitude you bring to the issue.

You mentioned before "reaching people for Christ". What I would really
like to do, if I knew how, would be to reach Christians for Christ. To
convert a Christian to Christianity seems to me at times the hardest
thing of all. Have you felt the touch of the Spirit? Why then cling to
your notions of sin and judgment, broken toys that they are? Open up
and let the Spirit in!  You will be happier, people will like you
better, and you will be doing what God wants you to be doing.


--
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/CICMA/Concordia University 
                  gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: If Socrates had visited Israel...
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:58:44 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Livermore CA
Originator: lip@s1.gov


	Something about the claim that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle
had taken instruction from the Israelites got me to thinking... What
if they did? What would they have said? What would people have said
about them?

	First off, we can scotch the idea that they had gotten
instruction from Moses or Solomon or any other major OT figure. S, P,
and A lived too late for that, during the time when Palestine was
ruled by the Persians, which was well after most of the history
presented in the OT. Only the youngest parts of the OT date to that
time. Solomon and the historical Moses (if there ever was one), lived
some centuries before -- before Homer, in fact. The claims that S, P,
and A had known these Biblical figures apparently derives from
Hellenistic Jewish apologists, and is repeated by some later
historians, including some that the Baha'is consider very reliable.

	And if Socrates had gone to Palestine to study under some
Israelite priests and scribes, I'm sure Aristophanes would have had a
lot of fun with him and his travels and what he learned, Socrates
going to the philosophers of some obscure Phoenician tribe.

	Given Aristophanes' taste for dirty jokes, he would have made
lots of jokes about circumcision, which Socrates would have learned
the importance of. For example, one of his characters might express
deep sorrow at the mutilation of a penis. He would also have made
jokes about how Moses didn't like pork, and why seven is supposed to
be such a magic number, and why Zeus (according to Socrates) doesn't
like to have statues of him made, and why one should neglect every
deity but Zeus.

	But all that is lacking in his Socrates satire _The Clouds_.

	Plato, in his _Republic_ proposed banning the works of Homer
and Hesiod (sort of like his culture's Bible) from his ideal state,
because they contained a wide range of things he considered
unedifying, such as people mourning their dead and having rich feasts
and gods fighting each other and laughing and lusting. He takes no
account of anything in the OT, some of which would have failed his
rather exacting specifications.

	Aristotle also shows zero knowledge of the Israelites, let
alone anything in the OT.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 18:37:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.162443.14400@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>If this is all you are going to contribute to what I am _trying_ to turn into
>a civilized discussion then drop the thread already...

I'd write "I guess the truth hurts," except that there's no reason for me
to expect that you read or understood what I said--the content goes completely
over your head.  It's up to YOU, Johnny, to drop this thread.  YOU offered
your take on gay people, but when gay people respond in a way which doesn't
jibe with your bizarre self-constructions on sexual ethics, you call the
discussion uncivilized.  By all means, drop the thread if you like.  But
if you keep offering opinions, you have best expect responses.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Court rules JW booklet recommends "untrue" testimony under oath
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:13:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.152254.8046@cs.joensuu.fi> asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen) writes:
>>>	Indeed I have thought. We don't teach children to lie, steal, rape,
>>>	loot and terrorize like many others do.
>>OK Andreas, *which* religions *do* teach children to lie, steal, rape,
>>loot, and terrorize?
>	Simply the religions there lying, stealing etc. is allowed. 

Name them.
--
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection.  Now that's an
idea.  Copy it into your .signature today!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why Mormon temple ceremonies are secret
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:53:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: goofy.23448
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <1992Apr13.125718.9026@apollo.hp.com>, smith_w@apollo.hp.com (Walter
Smith) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Apr11.185223.13793@hellgate.utah.edu>
jwindley%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes:
> >I argue from a point of view that essential tenets
> >of Christianity were lost relatively early in the history of the
> >Church. 
 
> The obvious question to a Catholic would be, why did God allow such
> a thing to happen?   What was the point in Jesus founding a church
> only to have it disappear within a generation?

It is the winners who write history. And it's not really Jesus who
founded the Church, he started the sect, but it was the original Church,
and especially Paul who created Christianity.

As for why God let Paul do most of the doctrine creation, I don't have 
a good answer. I guess he was the anointed one.

Cheers,
Kent
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: matwood%bullion.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Mark Atwood)
Subject: Re: CHRISTIANITY vs CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:10:36 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <1992Apr13.070920.14338@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
(deleted long article)
>Hope this gets some good discussion going!

It certainly will.  Since its 3:10 in the morning, I'll wait a day or so when I have to to compose a point for point reply.
---
Mark Atwood                            : Sorry, no cute quote here.
matwood@peruvian.utah.edu              :
The University has enough problems without being blamed for me.
---
Mark Atwood                            : Sorry, no cute quote here.
matwood@peruvian.utah.edu              :
The University has enough problems without being blamed for me.
From: asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi (Antti Siivonen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: ANDREAS - Read This!
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:31:05 GMT
Organization: University of Joensuu

adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:

>This is directed at Andreas, all other JW's please forgive me....

>(and this is reposted - I cancelled the original because I left out a very
>important sentence!  The one about them being women.)

>SOME JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE FALSE!  (by Andreas own standards!)

>Last week, I was approached by some Jehovah's Witnesses.   They wished to
>tell me about JW's.  And they were women.  Please explain this in light of
>the following:

>[I Timothy 2, NIV]
>Obviously, they were not silent.  And their clothes looked pretty expensive
>to me.  Give it up, Andreas.  You lose.

	Funny that you find a so little error from us, when we talk about 
	much greater things, like murder, stealing, rape ... and you refer to 
	the clothing of sisters. 

	Personally I've noticed the same thing as you and I'll forward it to the
	sisters I know. 

	As a contrary my clothes look pretty poor.  :)

	One suggestion: Would you put the same stuff to a fewer amount of 
	articles ? Helps me to answer. 
-- 

		Andreas - Siperian Sirri   Siberian Stint