HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 4 Jan 1993 13:50:37 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <BSIMON.93Jan4072728@houyi.stsci.edu> bsimon@houyi.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>I would just like to note that many medical procedures, especially
>surgical procedures, cannot be tested by a double blind approach. Yet
>no one attacks these procedures as unscientific and unproven. If
>unblinded studies are acceptable in surgical procedures why aren't
>they acceptable in studies of alternative medicine?

They are acceptable in surgical procedures only because it's impossible
to perform a blind study.  Since it is possible to perform blind studies
of homeopathic procedures, it is inexcusable that it hasn't been done.

The reason appropriate testing can't be done with surgery is because of
the difficulty of keeping adequate control groups.  You can't ask for healthy
volunteers to have their spleens removed, if you are testing the effectiveness
of splenectomies.  You won't get any volunteers, and the ethics committee
won't be happy about it either.  And, you can't keep a group of people with
untreated spleen problems around for a control either, since they may well
die.

On the other hand, many surgical procedures are tested on animals before
being used on humans, and these are generally adequate tests with proper 
controls.  (You might even call them blind because the animals don't know
what's happening to them, but that's pushing it).  Of course, this isn't
possible with a lot of procedures.
--scott
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Bach Flower Remedies
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<1993Jan12.140902.13040@pegasus.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:24:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.140902.13040@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com 
(Richard Foulk) writes:

   Combining them with a little fairy dust should be much more efficacious.

Could we do without the snide remarks? If you have any information to
contribute, pro or con, please let us know. But the kind of remark you
make above gets old very fast.

--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
From: wsindd@win.tue.nl (Dennis Dams)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: correct short-sightedness without glasses
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:57:05 GMT
	<1993Jan4.224142.16537@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, Dept. of Computing Science
In-reply-to: vhalkka@klaava.Helsinki.FI's message of 4 Jan 93 22:41:42 GMT



> > Now to my question. Is there any way to get better sight again.
> > Related to the earring I am thinking of accupunture, or is there some
> > eye-training, homeopatic remedies etc.?
> 
>    There is a surgical operation which takes about 10 minutes,
>    and the healing takes about 2 weeks.

I suppose you mean "radial kerathotomy" (not sure the spelling is
correct, this is what they call it here, in Holland). It is a
technique where they make small cuts on the surface around the iris;
the formation of scar tissue is then supposed to correct the shape of
the eye. There is no good way to control the effect and consequently
the operation usually doesn't give the desired result. Furthermore it
seems that it may give complications on the long run and therefore it
is being less applied. I would not recommend it.

>    And then there is a book, 188 pages:
> 
>    W.H.Bates,M.D.
>    Better eyesight without glasses
>    ISBN 0 583 12920 X ( this is a british version )
> 
>    This book has exercises. I have never tried them.
>    I don't believe in this book, anyway.
>
>   VesA

I know of another technique, called "orthokeratology", which corrects
the shape of the eye using normal (hard-flexible) contact lenses. The
treatment usually takes 3 to 6 months, during which period the
strength of the lenses is decreased several times. The technique seems
to be (as far as I've been told) reasonably successful; usually a
decrease in strength of 2 to 4 points can be achieved. The advantage
is that if it doesn't work, it doesn't harm. Disadvantage is the cost.
The treatment is supported by exercises improving abilities like
tracking and focussing of the eyes (such exercises DO exist and it's
also possible to do them as a separate treatment).

I know someone who just started orthokeratology this month. If anyone
is interested, I'll keep in touch about the effects.

--Dennis Dams.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vitamins
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:30:44 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan8.231940.5536@das.harvard.edu> bochner@das.harvard.edu (Harry Bochner) writes:
>|> Why did they use beta-carotene instead of plain vitamin A?
>
>Overdosing is a serious consideration with plain vitamin A. The dose
>mentioned (25,000 units per day) is probably safe for short periods,
>but it's high enough that it might make some people quite sick if they
>kept it up for a long period of time.

That was vitamin A as beta-carotene.  Not all of that is converted to A.
It still is an interesting question: how would isotretinoin behave versus
traditional retinol (vitamin A), or for that matter, tretinoin.
There's some thought that the cancer-protective effects in _this particular
application_ (leukoplakia) are due to tretinoin, which is formed from
isotretinoin.

>I haven't heard figures of how much beta-carotene you can safely take, but my
>understanding is that there's much less danger of toxicity.

Yes.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: mrl@cmod2.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: tinnitus - ringing in the ears
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:02:12 GMT

In a previous article, pedwards@csli.stanford.edu" wrote:
>Does anyone know any remedies for tinnitus (ringing in the ears)? 
>Mine isn't related to hearing loss. Western docs basically say
>there's nothing they can do about it, but ignore it and it will go
>away. This is true in one sense - if I stop thinking about it I
>stop noticing it - but it's still very unpleasant when I want to
>sit outside under the stars on a quiet night and all I can hear is
>this loud ringing sound.
> 
>Anyone know if acupuncture works, and if so, does anyone have
>an acupuncturist in the Peninsula area they recommend? Herbal
>remedies? Supplements? I'll try anything.
> 

I have heard to try Vit A and E, based I guess on possible damage to the
tissues, but no actual cases or references were given.

My allergy book says that it could be due to allergies.  That would explain
mine getting worse after a cold.  The book gave a case of someone who had milk
allergies and was cured when he stopped drinking it.  Supposedly the
capalleries (sp?) in the ear swell up due to allergies.  It also mentioned that 
too much salt, alcohol, and smoking could make it worse, again no references
were given.

I've found that stress definetly makes it worse, so I take Supplements that
supposedly help that (magnesium, B Vit, etc.).  Maybe that is why acupuncture
helps.  I have heard acupuncturists claim they can help it, so I guess if all
else fails, give it a try.

I have the problem in one ear very loudly due to an accident, but in the last
couple of years I've noticed other sounds in both that ear and the other ear
which come and go with stress and colds.  Whenever I get depressed about it, I
think of the person I know who is losing her hearing, and the person I know who
is losing his sight, and the person I know who was diagnosed with MS, and I
usually feel less depressed.

Mark London
MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: mild acne
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:40:39 GMT

WHen i was a teenager i took zinc supplements. At first it seemed to make 
acne worse, but then it looked better. I dont know for sure if it helped 
or i just "grew out of it", but i noticed beneficial effects within a few 
months. Anyone else had success with zinc?

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor (but i play one on the net)
Al


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: garo@ani.viewlogic.com (Garo Toomajanian)
Subject: Re: Vitamin C dosage
Originator: garo@ani
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:27:20 GMT


In article <1ihg94INNn1d@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>, () writes:
|> In article <1992Dec28.192240.14986@das.harvard.edu>,
|> bochner@das.harvard.edu (Harry Bochner) wrote:
|> > 
|> 
|> > how much is too much when taking vit c daily?  can one od on vit C?
|> im taking 500mg daily but perhaps as a fairly heavy smoker i should up
|> this to 1000mg - any comments?


You can't overdose on Vitamin C.  Your body will absorb whatever it
can and will eliminate the rest.  

For this reason, you're better off getting your vitamin C in several
smaller doses throughout the day rather than one large dose.
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@houyi.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<1993Jan3.201728.4425@netcom.com> <1i7pffINNd7l@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:27:28 GMT

I would just like to note that many medical procedures, especially
surgical procedures, cannot be tested by a double blind approach. Yet
no one attacks these procedures as unscientific and unproven. If
unblinded studies are acceptable in surgical procedures why aren't
they acceptable in studies of alternative medicine?

--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		ad astra per aspera

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Crystalline vitamin C - caveats
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:21:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.090050.10170@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
(Michael Traub) writes:

>The simple fact that you and I (and probably thousands of others) suffer
>stomach discomfort from ascorbic acid is totally irrelevant. In fact this
>whole newsgroup is totally irrelevant. None of the things discussed here
>can possibly work. They fact they do is a mere abberation or placebo effect.

I appreciate the irony, but I also appreciate Steve taking the time to
post here.

Constructive criticism and arguments are great, but please, let's
leave the personal stuff out of it.

Thanks!

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan4072728@houyi.stsci.edu>
	<1993Jan8.061553.26550@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:31:09 GMT

I agree that double blind studies should be used to test treatments
where possible, and especially when the symptoms of the disease are
subjective and/or the disease is self limiting. My earlier post was
directed against the claim that useful information about medical
procedures could ONLY be derived from double blind studies. I
mentioned surgical procedures as a counter-example to this claim. The
hangup with double blind tests and alternative medcine is that some
techniques, such as visualization and meditation can't be tested in a
blinded test and that blinded tests are more expensive to perform and
research money for alternative medicine is hard to come by.
--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:55:14 GMT

In <1993Jan7.175708.24046@netcom.com> I gave this attribution:

>From Neustaedter's _Immunization Decision_:

On re-reading, I may have shortened this a bit much -- I'd like to
make it clear that I'm referring to Randall Neustaedter OMD, CA, and
his book _The Immunization Decision: A Guide For Parents_.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan8073109@elvis.stsci.edu> <1993Jan8.170301.4009@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:19:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.170301.4009@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:

   Techniques such as visualization and meditation can
   at least be tested with a single-blinded design, yet
   such studies are rare.

   A good deal of homeopathy, however, is perfectly amenable
   to double-blinded investigation and yet few such
   studies exist and even fewer good studies exist.

   Given the relatively low cost of most homeopathic
   preparations and the few (if any) diagnostic tests
   required for homeopathic diagnosis, the cost to perform
   a double-blinded study of a homeopathic preparation
   should be quite small.  

   How much money do you estimate, for example, it would
   cost to perform a double blinded, randomized
   study of, say, 100 patients presenting to a homeopath
   with a cold?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how you can blind a study of
visualization or meditation. I suppose you can have an independent
physician evaluate their condition. But I thought the purpose of
blinding was to control for the placebo effect, which can't be
contolled for when studying visualization or meditation.

I posted a list of homeopathic clinical trials currently underway on
sci.med earlier. I'm including them here to show that homeopaths are
not anti-science and are trying to do controlled studies. However
small the barriers to conducting controlled studies may seem to you,
they are still formidable. For example, I do not know of any good,
controlled studies of accupuncture that have been published in
allopathic medical journals. Perhaps someone on the net knows of one.
There are few sources of funding for studies of alternative medicine.
There are few willing researchers, and the journals are reluctant to
print the results.

Homeopathic Treatment for Osteoarthritis, Brian Berman M.D., Univ. of
Md. School of Medicine

Clinical Effects of Homeopathic Zeal in Osteoarthritis of the Knee,
Carlo Calabrese N.D., Bastyr College of Natural Medicine

Homeopathic Treatment of Premenstrual Syndrome, Edward Chapman M.D.,
Univ. of Penn.

A Double Blind Crossover Proving of Crocus Sativa (Saffron), John
Collins N.D., National College of Naturopathic Medicine

Treatment of Social Phobias with Homeopathy, Johnathan Davidson M.D.,
Duke University School of Medicine

Homeopathic Treatment of Diarrhea in Children, Deborah Gordon M.D. and
Michael Carlston M.D., Univ. of Cal. at San Fran. School of Medicine

Treatment of Accute Childhood Diarrhea with Homeopathic Medicine: A
Randomized Clinical Trial in Nicaragua, Jennifer Jacobs M.D. MPH,
Univ. of Wash. School of Public Health

--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
		

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel)
Subject: Re: resisting electromagnetic radiation
Reply-To: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: misc.health.alternative
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:38:30 GMT

Brain states in a recent post
"The power lines outside your home are irrelavent.  You get a much greater
exposure form the wiring inside you home."  {rest deleted}

Respectfully beg to differ.  Order of magnitude here is critically important
If those outside lines were high voltage(100KV) or above they might well be momore concern that indoor wiring.  Also the magnetic field is not at issue 
until there is a load on the line (devices turned on and drqwing power).
I think rather than dismissing the EMF/EMR concerns out of hand we should
proceed as "walking question marks" because the reality is we don't know
what effect they have one us.  We can be fairly certina that they don't
kill us since we aren't all dead.  Their contribution to cancer and a host
of other possible diseases is really unknown, but there are some studies that
seem to show a possible/likely link, at least for children.
Bob Vogel
From: harrison@cs.ubc.ca (James Harrison)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Vitamin C dosage
Date: 8 Jan 1993 11:58:42 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: sapporo.cs.ubc.ca

In article <1993Jan7.172720.17869@viewlogic.com> garo@ani.viewlogic.com (Garo Toomajanian) writes:
>|> > how much is too much when taking vit c daily?  can one od on vit C?
>You can't overdose on Vitamin C.  Your body will absorb whatever it
>can and will eliminate the rest.  

Well...I did have a couple of friends in high school who thought that vitamin
C was so cool that they took a whole bunch of the chewables and got a pretty
bad case of canker sores.  Not quite the same thing as an overdose, but
definitely a reaction...

James

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Harrison@cs.ubc.ca           `RPCing as fast as the network will let me.'
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: ktester@tellabs.com (Kevin Tester)
Subject: Re: Bach Flower Remedies
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle,IL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:50:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.071623.23113@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1idf7kINNdq1@shelley.u.washington.edu> bulwinkl@stein.u.washington.edu (In Cognito) writes:
>>I slept on a hide-a-bed over the holidays and developed nasty back spasms.
>>I'm also experiencing laziness and despondancy about work/school.
>
>
>Why would they be emotional?  People get back back spasms all the time;
>maybe it's the pain and limitations in movement which gets them down.
>In any case, how about a nice hot bath?  It works wonders on stiff
>muscles.

Kneipps Juniper oil and Epson salts in the hot bath help even more.  But I
tend also to have back pain when I am not paying attention to myself or am
stressed out as well.  Many health folks say that we have so many back problems
(1 in 3 adults or something like that) because we have not evolved anatomically
to the point for uprightedness.  Maybe so.  But in my own experience, if I am
truly "centered" by back doesn't hurt and vice versa.  Since I spend a lot of
time being off-center, I use the Juniper oil--it's very pleasant.  

(Acutally Kneipps makes a whole assortmant of bath oils, that don't stain
the tub, and are really nice.  I recognize some of the oders as being those
that are used in the European Saunas/Steam Rooms.)


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:21:45 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer), in <1993Jan8.043656.1751@spdcc.com>:

>>I wouldn't imagine it being a public health problem, but if we're going
>>to be re-immunizing adult women anyway, why immunize kids?
>
>Herd immunity.

Or to expand that phrase, to interrupt circulation of the virus.

Individual immunity, it appears, would be better served by *not*
immunizing during childhood, and selectively immunizing adolescent
girls who were not already immune.

>>From [Randall] Neustaedter's _Immunization Decision_:
>>
>>  Side-effects of the rubella vaccine include encephalitis-type symptoms,
>>  meningitis, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome (muscle paralysis and sensory
>>  nerve deficits).  In addition, at least 12 to 20 percent of women develop
>>  arthritis symptoms after receiving the vaccine.  These may begin several
>>  weeks after the administration of vaccine (Fulginiti, 1976)[*].  They may
>>  persist for weeks, months, or years.  In some cases, women develop
>>  rheumatoid arthiritis which continues throughout their lives.
>>
>>It's unfortunate he doesn't provide a reference for the statement about
>>rheumatoid arthiritis, but are you saying it isn't true?
>>
>>* Fulginiti, V.A. "Controversies in current immunization policies and
>>  practices."  Current Problems in Pediatrics 1976; 6:6-16.
>
>It is certainly _not_ the case that 12-20 percent of women develop
>arthritis symptoms.  Where _are_ all these people?  Ask yourself that.
>The vaccine is quite safe.

His citations are weak here (why cite only for women, for instance,
and why cite old 1976 data?), and the 12-20 percent figure does almost
beg for a qualifier ("...who are not already immune", or something
like that).

In any case, I included the passage only for the last sentence, in
which he says that rheumatoid arthritis is associated with the
vaccine, something which you said is not true.

Who's wrong?

Pete
From: jll@doc.ic.ac.uk (Janice Lonsdale)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: mild acne
Followup-To: misc.health.alternative
Date: 8 Jan 1993 12:41:51 GMT
Organization: Imperial College
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wplmacd-56.doc.ic.ac.uk


In the past 2years my skin  mainly on the left side under my
chin has been covered in spots.  Sometimes large and painful
other times small pimples.  I have been to see my doc and
he gave my a dab on tetracycline lotion but this hasnt 
worked at all.  I asked for antibiotics but he thought
that was a bit severe.  I cleanse very carefully with
unperfumed stuff but today they are all back with a vengence!
Does anyone have any other ideas of just what I should
try as they are really getting me down.

Thanks in advance
Janice
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Requesting relaxation and brain exercises and sources.
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:34:12 GMT

One good book on meditation and healing is "Full Catastrophe Living"
by John Kabat-Zim.
--
Bernie Simon (bsimon@stsci.edu) -- Looking for a 90's answer to a 60's question
		

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: ns14@crux3.crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto Siemers)
Subject: Re: Anti Oxidants?
Organization: Department of Chemistry, Cornell Univ.
	<1ibijmINNqth@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:22:53

>>>>> On 5 Jan 1993 08:58:30 GMT, abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu
 Anthony> (Anthony Bulloch) said: NNTP-Posting-Host:
 Anthony> garnet.berkeley.edu

 Anthony> (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:

>I've heard that there are supposed to be anti oxidant drugs often
>used in Europe, does anyone know anything about them?  Does anyone
>know if these have been tested? I assume testing them would be quite
>difficult since the effects would only show up after many years, of
>use.

 Anthony> Do you really mean 'drugs'?

 Anthony> Most anti-oxidants are vitamins or minerals and are available in
 Anthony> supplement form - and you don't have to go to Europe to get

	I don't know if I agree with this.  I believe vitamins a, c,
and e are known to be antioxidants.  That's it.  There is a virtually
unlimited number of compounds that could serve as an antioxidant.  In
line with the radical theory of aging,  some people consume
"unnatural" antioxidants such as bha (butylated hydroxy anisole) and
bht ( butylated hydroxy toluene)  in the hopes that it will lessen
radical mediated destruction and thus slow aging.




 Anthony> there are some US companies that produce first-rate anti-oxidants
 Anthony> using the latest scientific research and technology.


	Whoeeee How bout the US!  Latest Scientific Research!   :)


	Nathan Siemers
	Department of Chemistry, Cornell University
--
--
/  | / /__|  /  /---/ /__| /  | /    nathan@chemres.tn.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: buzz@wccf.mit.edu (Sheila Gay Buzzee)
Subject: Re: correct short-sightedness without glasses
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: MIT - Whitaker College
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:35:00 GMT

In article <WSINDD.93Jan5135705@wsinti04.win.tue.nl>, wsindd@win.tue.nl (Dennis Dams) writes...
>I know someone who just started orthokeratology this month. If anyone
>is interested, I'll keep in touch about the effects.
> 
>--Dennis Dams.

  Please keep us posted.  I for one, would be thrilled to shed the glasses and 
contacts, and never have vision-induced headaches again.

  Buzz
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative