HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.birthright
Subject: Re: Governor Casey for '96 President?
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:19:50 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

> = (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>> = (James G Keegan Jr):
>> -> = (Susan Garvin) writes:

>> -> who just heard Dan Quayle say on television that he would
>> -> support his daughter in her decision if she chose to have an
>> -> abortion

>> wow. the bush campaign people must really, really be scared.

>Could it be that Quayle, as a father, merely said he would never turn
>his back on his own daughter?   

No, I saw that LARRY KING LIVE two nights ago.  King asked what Quayle
would do if his grown-up daughter decided to get an abortion.

Quayle replied, "I would support her.  I would hope she wouldn't make that
decision."

Is this another "feather in his cap", Suzanne?

>Hmmmm?   Hell, I could say the same thing.

You'd support your daughter if she decided to get an abortion?

>I'd like to hear Garvin expand on the context, or I'm afraid I'll have to
>go on believing she's misquoted him as badly as Doug's misquoted Clinton.

Now you know.  Quayle wasn't misquoted.

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
From: sgast+@pitt.edu (Susan Garvin)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abortion and Infanticide
Keywords: From: decay@
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:42:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul25.045504.15172@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
#In article <1992Jul22.184922.219382@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
##It is never necessary to kill a newborn infant in order to
##remove it from its mother.  It is sometimes necessary to
##kill a late term fetus to remove it from the pregnant
##woman.
#
#I assume by "necessary" you mean medically indicated, right, in order to save 
#the life of the mother? 

Are you and Holtsinger sharing a brain this week?

By "necessary", I meant "unable to accomplish without."
This definition appears in the dictionary.  I guess when
you make up your own definitions on a regular basis, you
forget the standard ones.

#If so, please elaborate on the medical circumstances 
#in which the sequence of the two major events wrt the late-term fetus -- 
#detachment and destruction -- cannot be inverted without incurring a major 
#risk to the mother's life. The relevance of such an inversion is that it would 
#technically make the difference between abortion and infanticide, of course...

You are completely ignorant on this subject, aren't you?
You really should consider acquainting yourself on some
basic facts about abortion.

It is much safer (for the woman) to do a D&E than it is
to perform a hysterotomy or a saline or prostaglandin 
induction.  D&E's require the dismemberment of the fetus
in order to remove it vaginally.  Quite obviously. the
steps cannot be reversed.  

Susan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: cj@eno.corp.sgi.com (C J Silverio)
Subject: Re: A view on abortion
Followup-To: misc.test
Reply-To: cj@eno.corp.sgi.com (C J Silverio)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:47:08 GMT

---
jimh@aplcen (Jim) writes:
|clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
|>In article <1992Jul16.190720.13289@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, Jim writes:
|>> As a tax payer with representation, I would vote NOT to
|>> have my tax dollars spent on abortion.
|>
|>On the other hand, I'd vote NOT to have my tax dollars spent
|>educating you, since it'd clearly be a waste of money.

|I'm glad to see support out there to do away with the
|NEA :-))

Just what does the National Endowment for the Arts have
to do with your learning disabilities?

---
cj@eno.corp.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"'Nonsense, errant nonsense, as ever was talked!' cried Knightley." 
						-- Jane Austen
From: keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: dictating what women can do with the contents of their bodies (was Re: Allowing abortions in cases of rape and incest.)
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:03:57 GMT
Reply-To: james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com>
Followup-To: misc.test
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Disclaimer: i speak for myself only, unless noted otherwise

frisinv@pell50.alleg.edu (Vincent Frisina) writes:
-> keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr) writes:
-> > as i said, rape has nothing to do with abortion, nor does
-> > abortion have anything to do with rape, unless, of course,
-> > you're one of that minority who wants to dictate what women
-> > can do with the contents of their bodies.

-> Keegan, have you ever bothered to read the name of this
-> thread? 

have you read the paragraph preceeding your question?

-> It's Allowing abortions in cases of rape and incest.

then it would seem that my comment addresses that topic, would it
not?

-> That sounds like rape should be involved in the discussion.

have you read the paragraph preceeding your first question?

-> As you so kindly pointed out to me, I have no power to
-> constrain what you talk about, but any discussion becomes
-> pretty meaningless when one party won't stay on the subject.

particularly when the subject itself is meaningless, eh?






-- 
----
charter member   ...   T.S.A.K.C.
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Willing to discuss with Novak, off-line only
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:03:05 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Jul27.225641.9578@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu
(Stephen A Chaney) writes of Ron Graham:
> 
> Novak and his low intellegence self doesn't stand a chance when
> someone like this, takes the battle to close-quarters... 

Heh.  Mr. Graham is apparently not even capable of locating Mr. Novak's
email address in his .signature.

The best and brightest, eh, Dennis?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
From: nyikos@cc.uow.edu.au (peter nyikos)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Bye for now; exciting news from Lejeune's lab
Keywords: chorion
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:49:23 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong

This is going to be my final post before leaving Wollongong.  I am 
really looking forward to returning to this net and seeing what 
people have posted in response to my original posts. {The news is
trickling in very slowly: the messages I get from  nn  are still
back around July 15}

I've probably been justly flamed already for my immoderate accusation
at Planned Parenthood, making it sound like a monolithic conspiratorial
secret organization.  I'll write a much more balanced and reasoned 
revision of my "LOWDOWN" post when I get back.  In the meantime, feel
free to flame me.  If eating umble pie [named after the umbilical cords
that are one of the main ingredients] is the price to pay for a 
constructive dialogue on this fascinating topic, I'll gladly pay it.

And now, in a tiny nutshell:

	EXCITING NEWS FROM JEROME LEJEUNE'S LAB

Jerome Lejeune is a world-class geneticist who discovered the basis
of Down Syndrome and who is a member of many national academies of
science, including the American.  One of his co-workers has done
research on the chorion [see LOWDOWN for factual info] and has
announced that it is interpenetrated by maternal blood far later
[end of 1st trimester] than heretofore thought.  Lejeune has 
said that if this is confirmed, it will win for this co-worker
the Nobel Prize.

This has enormous significance for such things as Rh incompatibility, 
and also for the possibility of transplanting 1s trimester embryos/
fetuses.  I had a lot of ideas about what to say on this, but I am
literally out of time.  Anyway, I'mk sure talk.abortion subscribers
will have a lot to say just on the basis of what I have said here.

Peter Nyikos
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:28770 alt.flame:11343 alt.fan.kevin-darcy:321
From: keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame,alt.fan.kevin-darcy
Subject: Re: Abortion and Infanticide
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:02:14 GMT
Reply-To: james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com>
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Disclaimer: i speak for myself only, unless noted otherwise

kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
-> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
-> >This must be the GROUP Kevin Darcy answering.
-> 
-> What makes you say such an ignorant thing?

who was it that, when he was address individually by name claimed
he was being addressed as a group?

        "We must have lies and and fraud. Society wouldn't
        function without them."
			<1992Jul20.065625.2628@rotag.mi.org>

-- 
----
charter member   ...   T.S.A.K.C.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: tjoa@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Tjoa)
Subject: Re: Chaney's argument FOR choice! (Was Re: One sure way to prevent a teen abortion?)
Summary: A massage from the President...
Keywords: abortion house punishment get out forced removal sex
Organization: Oooh, Aaah Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:12:00 GMT

In article <usglkrx.712393545@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> (Lori K. Rothman) writes:
>In an article somewhere (Richard Tjoa) writes:

[If you see her post, you see what I, and everyone else says, which is a lot]
[...large amount of text deleted, which I end with...]

>>By the way, Mr. Chaney, "war", as you so love to put it, has its
>>casualties.
>
>OK, what about a parent who decides that s/he doesn't want to deal
>with a grandkid.  Do you think that the parent should say to his/her
>pregnant teenage daughter "get an abortion or get out of the house!"?

Not dealing with their grandkid by pushing their daughter out of the house
is a solution, although it is not the best solution.  I don't think that
they should tell their daughter to get rid of it, or get out, however, I
would not bar them from doing so.  I would hope that they would stand
behind the daughter, whatever her choice, but I cannot see the government
forcing her parents to take care of her.  (I could see abuse occurring in
that type of situation.)

>If you think it's ok for a parent to kick a kid out of the house for
>being pro-choice, I suppose you agree that a parent can throw a kid 
>out for being pro-life and defying a parent who wants his/her kid to 
>have an abortion.  That would teach the next daughter to either not
>get pregnant or have an abortion, right?

I do not like the idea of parents throwing their kids out for disagreeing
with them, but I would leave it within parental authority to do so.  I think
that the law currently allows parents to do so, according to Mr. Chaney.

>Lori Kent Rothman
>usglkrx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
>
>
>standard disclaimers


-Richard
I don't trust therapists that much.  After all, you insert a space and it
becomes "the rapists."
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Fetal tissue research, Nathanson, etc.
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:20:26 GMT

slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:

> WOW! REAL SOURCES!  *LOOK* Chris, THIS is what sources look like! 
> Take the lesson to heart, huh?

Sore loser.  You're so *cute* when you pout, Steve.

-- 
Chris Lyman -  a personal        /   "I belong to no organized
opinion for every occasion       /   political party.  I am a
email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov    /   Democrat." -- Will Rogers
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Bush's mom
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:24:08 GMT

> = Richard Pitts) writes:
>> = (Russ Anderson) writes:

>>This lead me to think.  We all know about Bush flip-flop
>>on abortion in 1980 (when picked as Reagan's VP).  We've 

>Why is it one is said to 'flip-flop' when they change their
>mind?????????????

Because Bush obviously adopted the conservative abortion position as soon as
he was chosen by Reagan to be VP.  You *do* remember "voodoo economics"
used by Bush against Reagan, again until the moment he got the VP spot,
when Reagan's economic theories became Bush's own (to the despair of the
U.S.).

>If one has new found evidence/convictions, why is is so bad 
>(or at least played up as being so bad) to change to a new position?
>Wouldn't you do the same or are you not open to new information?

It had nothing to do with new information, or convictions.  It had to do
with politics, and sucking up to the religious right.

>>                                             ...     We know
>>know the roumours that Barbara Bush is pro-choice (When
>>asked specificly about this roumour by Baba Walters, Barbara 
>>gave a vauge answer about not always agreeing with George's 
>>positions).  ....

>I believe, Mrs. Bush said (paraphrasing) that she and The President 
>agreed on the essentials and that the parts they didn't agree
>on were minor points and that if she stated which these were,
>Walters (or the media in general) would emphasize the differences
>and not the similarities.  DOES THIS MAKE MRS. BUSH PRO-CHOICE OR
>DOES IT CONFIRM HER STATEMENTS?

Calm down.  Mrs. Bush said directly to the press in 1988, right after
Georgie's inauguration, that she was pro-choice.  She lipped off about
semi-automatic guns, too.

She was silenced within weeks, and we all know what a *good* little team
player she's become.  

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer)
Subject: Re: The world according to propeller-boy - part 1
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:30:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services

kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy) writes ...
>Thanks for the effort, Steve, but once a witch-hunt is in full swing, it's 
>often very difficult to demonstrate to the mob that the victim isn't actually 
>a witch (shades of Monty Python and the Holy Grail :-). I have a feeling this 
>one is no exception.

Have you even once considered apologizing for your mistake?

By defending your original comments you (and still are) saying that
there was nothing wrong with them, and that there is nothing wrong 
with being molested.  By continuing to defend them you portray
yourself as one of the irresponsible punks who end up in prison
while blaiming everyone else for the robbery they committed.

Grow up.

>As for "distastefulness", I'll remind everyone, YET AGAIN, of where my article
>was posted originally. Taste is a very relative concept...

And I'll remind YOU to keep in mind who read it.  What's more 
important, your petty posturing, or someone else's pain?

-- 
Ray Fischer
rfischer@cs.stanford.edu
ray@netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Subject: Re: Pregnancy and Parenthood 2
Organization: Who, me???
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:14:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.124504.29320@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes:
>Quotes without any surrounding context seem to be all the rage right now,
>and as I like make Kevin foolish (it isn't hard to do -- simple pleasures
>for simple minds, you know) I jump into an ongoing discussion...
>
>In article <1992Jul22.041436.8393@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org 
>(Kevin Darcy) writes:
>
>}How the hell else does a woman become a parent other than by being pregnant
>}and giving birth? 
>
>Even I, who is allegedly confused, inconsistent and irrational can answer
>that one.  Adoption.

BZZZTT!! The context was biological parenthood.

							- Kevin
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Silliest sign carried by a pro-forcer
Keywords: From: decay@
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:52:53 GMT

garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

> Last Saturday, one of them had a piece of posterboard on his
> back.  On the posterboard, he'd glued a wooden Celtic cross.
> To the cross, he'd glued a rubber rat.

> The rat, I am told, represents the tiny sex animals that
> tempt us and result in our being sent to burn in eternal
> hellfire.

Funny thing.  I'd always thought of _my_ 'tiny sex animal' as
a big, friendly Labrador retriever.  It would be pretty hard
to get one of those on a posterboard!


-- 
Chris Lyman -  a personal        /   "I belong to no organized
opinion for every occasion       /   political party.  I am a
email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov    /   Democrat." -- Will Rogers
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.birthright
Subject: Re: One sure way to prevent a teen abortion? (was Re: Governor Casey for '96 President?
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:27:38 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Jul27.161324.26015@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu
(Stephen A Chaney) wrote:
> 
> Why, a parent could, upon being told that their daughter is pregnant,
> threaten to drop her off at a home for unwanted children if she has an
> abortion. 
> That's no slight inconvenience for anyone; the daughter would be
> devastated, and she would have no legal action against her parents.
> She'd just be out of a home.

Dennis, you're an idiot.

A "home for unwanted children"?

Just "drop her off"?

Why don't you take a dictionary over to one of the grownups and have them
read the definition of "abandonment" to you?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Fetal tissue research, Nathanson, etc.
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:54:04 GMT
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works

slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
>> slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
>>> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>>>> slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
>>>>> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

[-- massive deletia--]

Let's get to the point, ok Steve?  My only issue with your favorite
Third Reich article is that, as well documented and annotated as it
is, it is propoganda.  It is propoganda because of your selectivity
wrt to the facts you choose to emphasize.  Another historian, Claudia
Koonz has written a book that refutes or at least casts serious doubts
your claims.  Despite the fact that Dr. Koonz's is thoroughly 
researched from primary sources and personal interviews, you dismiss
her without even a cursory reading simply because she disagrees with
you.  If that isn't a definitive instance of an "intellectual blind
spot," then I guess I don't know what one is.  As they say in alt.flame,
have a USENET day.

-- 
Chris Lyman -  a personal        /   "I belong to no organized
opinion for every occasion       /   political party.  I am a
email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov    /   Democrat." -- Will Rogers
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: A comment on RvW
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:28:22 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


  This is just something interesting I noted when reading the text of the
Supreme Court's decision.  It has been mentioned (at least in passing) before.
While RVW is generally considered as granting women the right to choose (and 
has been treated that way by the laws), it actually (as the text is written)
does no such thing.  What it does do is prevent the states from interfering
with the DOCTOR's decision vis a vis abortion prior to the first trimester
etc. etc.

  RVW *as written* does not *seem* to grant the choice to women.  Obviously that
is how it has turned out in practice.  I just wonder what everone's thoughts
are on the matter.  Perhaps this apparent lapse was cleared up in another
case I  missed.  Since I try to abstain from the legalisms, I'm merely 
interested from a standpoint of curiousity, and have no intention of getting 
involved in any flamewar/cum debate on what the Justices *really* meant.

  (besides maybe playing devil's advocate because I'm feeling mean and nasty
about this recalcitrant program of mine...)

semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,soc.men,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,talk.bizarre
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Re: HeteroSexuality as a DeathKult
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:58:22 GMT

mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) writes:
] In article <1992Jul22.203528.17823@wetware.com> drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
] >steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
] >
] >{ its a logical follow on to the whole of the if you have sex,
] >you are consenting to gestation, and hence since that has a higher
] >level of potential for death, that one has in fact implied to
] >the female one is Copulating With, that one is seeking to Kill Them.
] 
] I guess this means that I can't buy my date dinner either,
] because she might get food poisoning from the meal,
] or the cholesterol might clog her arteries!
] 
] You know, he may be on to something! :) :) ;)


AMEN BROTHER!!!!

Preach IT!!!!

Come Thee Unto the TrueLight, 
And the Tan that will Never Fade!!!!

ReNounce That WorldliNess and its WickedWantonWays
with WhileyWomen And WonderBread!!!!!

Yee Have Surely Come Unto the ClearSightedNess!!!

Fall Yee Not Back Into your Old Ways!

Be yee Not Lead About By the Temptress
as she Seeks to Play Miles Davis upon
thy ThrobbingAndTumutuousTrumpetOfTruth!

ciao
drieux


ps: trivia question here happy campers, is there any correlationship
between the fact that in my formative years I did escort a young
lady back to her domicile, and thereafter found myself wandering
about the streets homeward bound, and Nearly got myself KILLED
by a terrorist Bombing, a situation that would NOT have occurred
had I forthwith gone to My Own Lodgings UnMolested by the Temptations
of this JezzaBellTelePhone!!!! and this most RECENT divine revelation 
that we should all 

	JUST SAY NO!!!! TO HETRO!!!!!




-- 
I Do Not Believe in .sig files
as they are such a Known Waste Of BandWidth,
And Therefore Not a Morally UpRight Choice.
But I Can See the HideousHienousHandOfHeteroSexualityBehindItAll.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Kaufman and Miller Rnd 1 (was re: Abortion is a Sin Against God!)
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:34:38 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Jul24.170912.15275@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu writes:

> You quoted Leviticus, not me.  I just made an observation on ancient
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Actually, Mr. Kaufmann quoted Exodus.  My apologies.
   
semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *