HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: What's a "partner"? (was Re: treating men as sex toys)
Organization: Rational
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:31:51 GMT

becki@Ingres.COM (Rebecca E. Tants) writes:

>Guy Barry (gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk) wrote:
>: I was originally curious about your use of the term "emotional
>: partner" because I recently had a conversation with someone who
>: insisted that a woman who wasn't sexually attracted to other women
>: could be considered a lesbian if she had an "emotional relationship"
>: with another woman.  I couldn't understand what it meant to divide

>Uhm - i can understand this distinction.  annecdote:  once long ago i had
>a friend (another female) who i became extremely close to, lived with, and
>broke up with.  there was never anything sexual between us, and we both

I have a very similar relationship, though we never broke up, just
moved to different countries.  Nothing sexual, beyond the occasional
public kiss for shock value, ever happened between us.  But we might
as well have been lovers, our lives were totally entwined.  We still
are very careful about each others SO`s and tend to minimize the time
we spend to gether with an SO in tow.

>i see it as the very early roots of my bisexualism - all that was missing
>was the sex.  i had that same level of emotional intimacy and closeness
>with her as with the best of my relationships before or since (more then
>most) and THAT, i think, is what muffy was refering to when she mentioned
>"emotional relationships".

So we have an ism now :-)  But becki, do you think that it is the early
roots of your bisexuality, or just something you were not ready
to consummate.  Knowing more about yourself now, would you expect this
relationship to be sexual if it were to happen over again today.


Iseult.
From: winsor@teng.ppd.ti.com (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I'm coming!
Date: 5 Jan 1993 18:43:40 GMT
Organization: Tiny Income
Distribution: world
Reply-To: winsor@teng.ppd.ti.com (js)
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <1ib8jrINNopk@agate.berkeley.edu>, rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
*** In article <1iahl8INNqt7@cuda.add.itg.ti.com> winsor@teng.ppd.ti.com (js) writes:
*** ->I will be in the SF/Bay Area from 1/18 - 1/29.
*** 
*** Hey, me too!
Whatta coincidence, Roy!  Fancy that.  :-)

*** ->I'd like to meet soc.bi'ers while I'm there
*** ->(H I N T: Muffy, Roy, ...jeff(?))
*** 
*** Coolness! Hey, we can all have dinner together! And we can invite Dan and
*** Iseult also, and a bunch of other people!! Yeah!
My cup runneth over!  How is it possible that I have
never announced that I'll be there before?
Any more takers?  I just love a party... <big ole stupid grin>


js
-- 
signature file
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Urgent notice!
Keywords: Make up your own.
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:34:35 GMT

In article <1inrdq$nn5@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
:In article <1r#3q=h@rpi.edu> safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
:->Warning!  It has been noted by our professional and tireless staff that not
:->enough fluff has been posted to soc.bi.
:
:*sigh* I tried, Sir ... 
:
:(thinks fondly of a certain thread that _you_ need to continue)

Does it have beads tied to it by any chance? ;-)

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker)
Subject: Re: Impossible acts
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:58:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.031454.2920@udel.edu> litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.203110.323@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>In article <C0Hu0G.M5s@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca> nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca (Nigel M Burnett) writes:
>>>vdijk@io.tudelft.nl wrote:
>>>:  'the Crisco Kid: pleasant darkhaired bi smart assertive cutie' ?
>>
>>>					   ^^^^^ ^^^
>>>Can we distill it down to this?  :-)}  :-)}  :-)}
>>Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! I'm going home! [stomps off, thumb in mouth,
>>sulking hugely]
>No wait, Kay!  Don't go! We need you here!  (besides, there's much better things
>you can do with your thumb and your mouth besides sulk... ;-))

[having stomped off home, then come back] Me?  You folk need me here?

			Wheeeeeeeee!
[Kay is VERY happy]

There's better fings to do?  But... but Ste... I thought you were
straight?

		Kay (considering a conversion job when he visits)
-- 
the Crisco Kid: quiet, shy, mono, Armani-suited.  Not.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: (Not) Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexuals
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:16:54 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1993Jan12.182051.9144@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:

>The T****s?  Well, the important thing is to get Leela to help.  A few
>taps with the sonic screwdriver should be useful.

Oh, Leela! *Leela*! [Sweats. Palpitates. Drools. Quivers.] That
costume ...  [Faints.] 

Funnily enough, the very similarly-named "Teela" (Chelsea Field)
in the exceptionaly silly "Masters of the Universe", had exactly
the same effect on me, even though her costume covered her ... 
all ... over. [Drool, drool, slobber.]

Test of Kinsey rating?  -- I just had no eyes at all for the half-
naked hunks in that film.

Now, "Heartbreak Ridge", there's a film I did learn something new 
from. There's hope for me yet.

>No need to be jealous of Jon, just cos he's a Timelord, Gus.

But I will be when he's a Doctor.
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, | Cinema's worst romantic dialogue? --
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End | "Mechagodzilla's brain is  installed
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 | in my stomach!" "I don't care if you
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | are a cyborg  --  I still love you!"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: Conversions
Organization: Rational
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:34:19 GMT

seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:

>In article <MUFFY.93Jan6125527@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>>
>>The subject like to this struck me as very funny, because I have often
>>said "I don't *do* conversions."  (In California, we "do" (or don't do)
>>things a lot - I also don't *do* eggplant...*grin*.)  I was always

>I have always found them a little big myself.  :)


Perfectly sized said this size queen - but try putting a condom
on one with your mouth.  Good practice - if you need it that is!

Iseult.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:23:50 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lifestyle (was Re: Coming out to family)
 <C0HKnH.B3n@newcastle.ac.uk> <1993Jan7.202734.28259@vpnet.chi.il.us>

Now, I hesitate to sugguest this, because Freya knows Muffy has
reported considerably more complex relationship experience than
I have had, but I think it goes like this.

Sexual attraction seems to arise from a decision making process where
the genes and WayDownThereEarlyLifeExperience have a controling vote;
intellectual opinions and emotional convictions can over-ride this vote,
but it can be a lot of work.

Emotional attraction seems to arise out of a decision making process
where the EarlyLifeExperience and the LifeExperience get together
and occaisionally ask the intelect for an opinion, and (hopefully)
ask the emotional convictions if they have a problem with this, but
just generally go merrily along and decide things.

If you happen to be so lucky or unlucky to meet someone who sets of
*all* the strong approval switches, frome genes to intelectual opinions,
we refer you to Chapter 8: Managing passion without looking too completely
idiotic and Chapter 9: How to get parts of you brain to take turns shutting
off.

Graydon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saundrsg@               "Praise then Darkness and Creation unfinished"
   qucdn.queensu.ca                   - U. K. LeGuin
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis)
Subject: sunday morning, 3 AM
Keywords: an interesting time was had by all
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:44:03 GMT

Well, it's difficult to say without compromising anyone's discretion,
and as discretion is the better part of valour, and I think I'm
sufficiently valorous, I should probably keep my mouth shut.

(Squirms with the effort for several seconds)

Well, okay. 
My purity test score went down!!!!!!!!!!!!

My lips are sealed, I will reveal nothing.  But it was fun!
(I think I like men.  Call it a het phase I'm going through.  But since 
no women have jumped up and offered themselves, I take my opportunities
when they present themselves.)

(You can try and worm it out of me, but you'll all FAIL!!!!!!)
(evil laugh)


Zoe

(smiling broadly in spite of having been up for *way* too long!)
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Conversions
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:55:27
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu's message of Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:01:43 GMT


The subject like to this struck me as very funny, because I have often
said "I don't *do* conversions."  (In California, we "do" (or don't do)
things a lot - I also don't *do* eggplant...*grin*.)  I was always
referring to men who were virgins and wished me to change their status,
though.  Anyway....

In article <1993Jan6.060143.19761@udel.edu> litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) writes:
>(he's bi, I'm not {yet}) I mentioned that several people had been doing their 
>darnedest to "convert" me.

What, exactly, have they been doing?  How have you felt about it, prior
to your discussion with your friend?

>Now I'd never thought about it, but Brendan was
>incensed that people were interfering in someone else's soul searching.  He
>feels (and I agree now that I think about it) that someone's coming out should
>be a personal event/struggle with other people there to be supportive, not
>influential.

I don't think that "influential" is a bad thing.  "Coercive" is a bad
thing, but other people are often influential.  The woman I was first
attracted to was quite influential to me, but she was not in any way
*trying* to "change" me (she wasn't even interested in me...*sigh*).

>As I looked around at the bifolk that I was hanging around with
>that weekend I heard (what I assumed) to be good-natured joking around about
>various people's attempts to "convert" other people.

From my experience at cons, I imagine that it *was* "good-natured
joking."  In a bilesgay-positive atmosphere, that's just another type of
flirting - "you're so attractive I wish I was/could be included in your 
orientation"...*smile*.  I doubt that anyone had any sinister or
destructive motives.

>Im my limited experience
>outside of this group, I tend to notice females doing this more often than 
>males.

I'd guess that this is because our society is still more accepting of
bisexuality in women than in men.

>Is this normal?

How do you define normal?  It's reasonably common.

>Is this ethical?

That depends.  If there is no coercion, harassment, etc., I would say
yes.

>Or am I just being a prude?  

What is there to be prudish about?  Unless they're doing the sexual part
of the conversion right there in front of you...*grin*.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Purity
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:43:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.194426.5030@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>
>phrase lovely to me, ever since I, sitting quietly at a party, and
>seeming somewhat sad, had a dear man wander up to me, and over the
>tumult, murmur "No mayonnaise in Ireland".  "Do what?", I asked, a
>tad perplexed.  "No mayonnaise in Ireland," he iterated.  "Then what
>do they put in their sandwiches, then?" I said, bewilderedly.  Shaking
>his head sadly, he wandered away into the throng.  It was a goodly while
>before I realised what he'd been saying.
>
>				Kay
?
Am I being dense?
I haven't a clue what he was saying.
Help?

-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: What's a "partner"? (was Re: treating men as sex toys)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:07:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.025608.29819@tcsi.com> 
 miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:
>It made sense to me -- even though my first impulse was to ridicule.
>"Emotional relationship??  Is there such a thing as an UNemotional
>relationship?"  Then I put some stress on the word "relationship",
>taken in the general sense of "significant other", and it came clear.
>
>I've mentioned a book in this group, _Men and Friendship_.  One of
>the more interesting points in it is that women have these kinds
>of "emotional relationships", as tight as almost any monogamous
>bond, but that it is exceedingly rare among men -- or straight men,
>anyway.  The book is in part a document of the (hetero) author's
>quest for something that close with another man.

With the majority of men it is easier to build relationships on
something less personal that feelings -- like work or sports -- there
may be bonds built up, but women tend to be more open to getting
into feelings up-front.  

Meeting a mixed-sex group of bisexuals full of sci-fi fans and 
computer geeks (UCBU) makes evident how artificial these sex-linked roles
really are.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexuals
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:01:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.151032.13496@ctp.com> sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:
>Yes, but can someone tell me what a yin yang symbol *looks* like?  I've
>don't know if I've ever seen one.
>
>*Sarah*  :)

OK I can't draw.  I suck at it bad.  But I will try.


		       *****
		      ***   *
		     **** *  *
		     ****    *
		     ** **   *
		      ****  *
	               *****

I am really impressed with myself.  :)
That is a fairly decent representation of a "yin-yang"
The chinese for it is Tai Ji or great extremes.
it shows one sperm looking entity biting the tail of another.
each sperm has an eye which is the color of the other one.
it represents the inseparability of opposites.  Things are always
seen in or are defined by their opposite.  For example, are you on 
the left or the right? :) of what you ask.  Also what sense does left make
without mentioning right.  the symbol is made up of the yin and the yang.
Yin is associated with the feminine, dark, moon, passive (:), desctruction
(in opposoition to creation).  Yang is associated with the masculine,
light, the sun, active, and creation.  There is a host of other
relationships but one which is absent is good/bad.  There is no
judgemental aspect.  
it is represented as two things chasing each other because tings often
turn into their opposites.  A common example is that at the longest day of
the year, the days start to become shorter.  This also brings up the idea
of things containing the seed of their opposite (thus the eye).
For example, wars are fought(we are told) to obtain or maintain peace.  

The system is very natural.  It points to a balance in nature of yin and
yang.  Different things have different amounts of each.  It is also the
basis of the Chinese divination book called the Yi Jing (I ching).

OK that was my diatribe for the hour.  I think that there is bi reference
here if you want to find it.  This was off the top of my head so please
correct me if i have misrepresented or erred.  

:) bye
jim
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
If you can't be good,               It just means use your imagination. 
be good at it.  T.B.                     Billy Bragg 
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17814 alt.polyamory:2323
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: Set the WayBack Machine (Coming Out)
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:59:54 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com

In article <16B5213135.SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Silver Tiger) writes:
>Timber reaches over, lifting the bit of collar the pin is attached to
>and says, "I want one of those too.  You got that in Boston, didn't
>you?"

Where, oh where? I want to get one, too! 

>"Well, it is a bit of a shock..." said the maternal unit, convincing me
>that she was still in the land of the living, at least mostly.

It's kind of sad that "it's a bit of a shock" from a parent really
isn't a bad reaction.

>I went on to treat her (and the situation) as if this was a perfectly
>normal and reasonable revelation, much like "It's nice day", "My but
>you're tall", or "So this is it, we're going to die."  [ With apologies
>to Douglas Adams ]  }:]

This sounds like a good move.  I'll try to remember this the next time
I come out to a relative.

>I wasn't about to correct that rather faulty line of logical thinking,
>that implied that in order for Anastasia to accept my bisexuality, she
>must be bisexual herself.  Anastasia *IS* bisexual, and I'd be splitting
>hairs about the causes of her acceptance of me.

I'm always cheered to hear about accepting spouses.  Mine is still
having some problems (SLIGHT understatement -NOT) in that area.

>I refuse to hide what I am, and I
>refuse to live my life in fear.  Life *IS* risk, and there's a hell of a
>difference between existing and living.  I prefer living.

Yes, living is a lot more fun.

Peggy
From: winsor@geek. (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: YES! It works!!!
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:49:45 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: world
Reply-To: winsor@geek. (js)
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com


In article <C0n5w3.8q6@newcastle.ac.uk>, J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

   
   So how does one post remotely? Other than to soc-bi@somewhere, I've forgotten
   where, Berkeley?

Try something like "alt.test.usenet@decwrl.dec.com".
   
john

-- 
The opinions expressed in the above do not reflect those of
my employer, or anybody connected with my employer.  Including me.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pistachio.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst)
Subject: Re: Goodness gracious...
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:13:34 GMT

In article <FVmXwB2w165w@anarky.tch.org> ergazork@anarky.tch.org (Very Silly Party) writes:
>
>
>What with all this demuffining, I'm starting to get hungry.
>
Starting to?  I went for my entire vacation without any muffins... I'm ravenous!

>(<WHAP>  Hey!  Get yer minds in the gutter!  Of course that's what I was 
>implying!)
>
Imply?  Gutter?  Sir, you wound me.  You imply things?  Why not come right out
and say it?  
>
>--
>Warning:  I am not sane.  All attempts at communication may result in a 
>loss of sanity and sudden urges to run naked through the streets.
>You have been warned.                   ergazork@anarky.tch.org

Running naked through the streets... I like you already. ;-)

					Steve

-- 
        ---<[{       .sig in stereo (where available)       }]>---
| Stephen C. Litterst           |  Nice guys finish last...              |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \ 	But we do get to sleep in.       |
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\______________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst)
Subject: Re: a silly question
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:10:48 GMT

In article <C0r5ED.1z4@cck.coventry.ac.uk> ouz085@cck.coventry.ac.uk (J Murdock) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.005731.10415@udel.edu>
>litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan3.130455.11191@news.acns.nwu.edu>
>>Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>>>In article <93002.225303SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
>>>Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>>>What does some turn into when they aren't a mufin any more?
>>>
>>>An ex-muffin.
>>
>>Or --if you're like me (straight)-- you turn into a biscuit.
>
>                         ^^^^^^^^ `mono' surely?
>
>Justin.

Well, I figured that "straight" was more (pardon the expression) straight-
forward than "mono."  Mono can be het or gay and straight (but not narrow)
is clearly het.

					Steve

-- 
        ---<[{       .sig in stereo (where available)       }]>---
| Stephen C. Litterst           |  Nice guys finish last...              |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \ 	But we do get to sleep in.       |
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\______________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:54:33 GMT

In article <93007.205433DICKSONE@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 
 Ellen <DICKSONE@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.041305.9028@news.acns.nwu.edu>, 
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu
>(Albert Lunde) says:
>>
>>I think what distingushes me from, say 20 year olds just coming out, is
>>not necessarlly the amount of sexual experience (since some have more
>>than me ;), but having had the time to develop some self-confidence and
>>get my public and private personas more in sync.
>
>Ack! tell me about it, I came out when I was 15, my parents found out when
>is was 17.  They kept asking questions to which I honestly didn't know the
>answers (not that I know them _all_ now, but I've gained more um... clues
>in the past um... 6 years *smile*)

What are friends for, if not to help each other...(flirt)(flirt)

;)

>-El, not completely clueless and still shamelessly looking for MORE
> demuffin hugs.
>|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
>|"More, MORE, I'm *still* not satisfied"                                 |
>|       -Tom Lehrer, _Smut_                                              |

*Hug* *Hug* *Huggity* *Hug*

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi