HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lrq@fanny (Robert Quan)
Subject: Surviving in a White Man's world
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:05:50 GMT


  I've been reading all the interesting subjects in S.C.A.A. and decided
to offer my two cents.  Hopefully, it won't stir up too much flame.  But
then again, it's only my opinion.

    Point 1:  Why is it that the media always associate an asian as a
              foreigner and not an American.  There are Orientals in this
              country that can trace their roots back to the 1800's.  Yet,
              when an oriental meets a non oriental, the non oriental always
              ask "what country he/she is from" and "compliments him/her on
              excellent English"

    Point 2:  Why do American Society stereotype Asian males as nothing more
              than wimpy and nerdy book worms.  We asian males are certainly
              not wimpy.

    Point 3:  Why do white men think that they are superior in looks and 
              physique to oriental males.  It is all media developed 
              stereotypes.

    Point 4:  Why do the media make a big hype about all the Japanese owned
              buildings and businesses.  It is well documented that the
              British own twice as much as the Japanese in the U.S.  Yet,
              we never hear about a British firm buying up a business or
              building.

    
    Last point, what steps should be taken to correct all these falsified and
negative stereotypes.



          Robert Quan (lrq@fanny.wash.inmet.com)
From: rw@HPLB.HPL.HP.COM (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: The Asian-American Community
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:55:49 GMT
Reply-To: russil%idacom.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com

Joe Wang <joe@astro.as.utexas.edu> writes:
>>But this does not mean that we -- Asian-Americans, that is -- have *no*
>>common interests, experiences, or values.
>
>But do Asian-Americans have any common interests, experiences, or
>values that Americans in general and minorities in particular do not?
>
>I don't think so.

??!  Really?  I would have thought that almost all second-generation
Asian-Americans would get *some* exposure to Chinese culture, Japanese
culture, etc., through our parents; more than Americans in general, anyway.
Giving us a different perspective on things, so to speak.  The specific
cultures are different, but the phenomenon is the same:  the two cultures
have to be resolved somehow.

>>For example,
>>I think almost all second-generation Asian-Americans have to deal with being
>>what Chinese call a "banana":  being Asian on the outside, but American
>>on the inside.
>
>My perspective may be different because I've never had that problem.
>I can switch back and forth between "white American" and "Chinese"
>modes, and when I'm in Chinese mode, it's fairly difficult to figure
>out that I was born in the United States if I don't say anything
>that's longer than thirty seconds.

Maybe that's it.  I don't support "Chinese" mode, I'm afraid. :-)
I'd like to be able to do that, but I find learning Mandarin pretty
hard (compared to French or German, say).

>To create a community that exists solely because "we look the same"
>(and we don't) and we have ancestors who come from the same
>geographical region seems quite absurd.

I'm not trying to create a community here, I'm just trying to figure out
if the idea of an "Asian American community" makes any sense or not.  I
think it does, but it's a pretty diffuse and broadly defined community.
*And* -- this is important -- it's a part of American society, not separate
from it.  I think that as racial differences become less and less of an issue,
the "Asian American community" would become more and more diffuse, until
we're all pretty much completely assimilated into the mainstream, but
that's speculation.

Russil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:13:10 GMT

In article <1lf-Fm+@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.134459.24076@natinst.com> Osbert Tan, fellow@natinst.com writes:
>>My question to the net is, how do you deal with this type of situation
>>(i.e. racial slur), at the same time coming out of it with honor/dinity
>>(you fill in the appropriate word(s)) intact and ALIVE ?
>>
>>-Osbert
>
>Why would one need to defend his honor from those type of guys anyways?  The
>Vietnamese guy's actions were probaly just what the thugs wanted.  Sometimes,
>"restraint is the better part of valore."  I can understand the "heat of the
>moment," I've been in that position plenty of times myself.  But when you
>are 19, in Med-school and surrounded by 10+ losers, defending your honor
>is a senseless and a lost cause because it will do you no good (and it didn't).  
>
>From a tatical point of view, his best move would have been to retreat and
>regroup (gather friends).  But that is starting to sound like gang violence.
>

  How do you know from that article what really happened?  How do you
  know just because the report said "defend his honor" what the guy
  really did?  The police chief said that they chased him down like
  an injured deer.  That doesn't seem like defending his honor to me.
  You're assuming that this guy "provoked" those thugs.  I can see it
  now, "He shouldn't have been at that party and placed himself in
  such a dangerous situation."  And the defendants will claim that
  he made "ethnic slurs and provoked them to violence."  (Much like
  the defendants of the Reginald Denny case claim).  The guy is dead
  and can't talk.  All you have is a press report probably from witnesses
  saying that the guy "defended his honor".  He probably didn't have
  a chance when these thugs decided to pick on him, whether he bent
  and scraped and bowed or not wouldn't have made any difference.
  Look at what happened in Howard Beach.  Look what happened to
  Yusef Hawkins and Vincent Chan.  When these thugs are bent on blood
  they're not going to stop to listen to reason.  The witnesses there
  were most likely friends of the thugs, and not above a little
  victim blaming.  Finally it shows that THEY don't expect US to
  disagree with them on anything.  If they call you a Chink, they
  think you're supposed to stand there shuffling, "Thankee, thankee,
  sir." with that silly buck-tooth smile.  If you don't do that,
  then it's your fault you're dead for "defending your honor."
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: An Old Article from Cosmopolitan Magazine
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:52:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA.  USA



      Well, a couple of people asked about this so here are some excerpts:

     This is from Cosmopolitan magazine, exact issue unknown, something
like 1972-73.  I should stress that my posting of these excerpts should
in no way be construed as an endorsement of the attitudes contained
therein...remember, this IS from Cosmopolitan. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     HAVE YOU TRIED A CHINESE LOVER?

      You KNOW you like Chinese food.  You're just DISCOVERING Chinese
      art.  Why not experiment with a Chinese MAN?

  
     A famous silent-screen star, celebrated as much for her love affairs
as her beauty, once remarked:  "Men?  I've had them all...the Latins, the
Frenchmen with the bedroom eyes, the silent Swedes...but you know who was
best?  My Chinese houseboy!"
     What the actress and other women are now discovering is that the 
Chinese male has had a two-thousand-year start at mastering the arts
of love.  While St. Paul was comdemning women (the vile temptresses) and
counseling pious abstinence, Orientals were enthusiastically exploring
eroticism.  The Chinese have traditionally considered sex the highest
art form and raise their children to be successful in love just as
American children are encouraged to be successful at football or skiing.

...[stuff deleted because I don't have the time or stomach to type it
all in]...

...As one Chinese girl says, "The reason American women know nothing
about Chinese lovemaking is because they can't read our language.  I'm
happy about their ignorance.  If they knew what they were missing,
there'd be no holding them back and no Chinese lovers left for us!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     The article is accompanied with a drawing of a Chinese man eating
(probably breakfast) with chopsticks while in the background a White 
woman in a silk robe looks at him with a mixture of satisfaction and
exhaustion.

    My comment on the article:  no comment.

--Mike Tamada
  Occidental College
  tamada@oxy.edu
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>
>Why is it that a majority of the non-orientals (caucasians) that post here
>all tend to have an optimistic view on racism.  
>How can anyone who doesn't know what it feels like to be harassed based on
>there race/culture understand.
>It seems to me that anyone lacking first hand experience at being the
>receiving end of extreme racism and be able to offer advice hypocrites.

There are, however, some of us who have lived in other countries, and have
friends who have lived in other countries. Outside the US, and a few European
nations (though not, by any means, all), discrimination on the basis of race,
creed, color, sex, etc, is not only the norm, but legal. Some of us, Mr Quan,
HAVE been on the receiving end, yet we still maintain "an optimistic view". 
Some of us have grown up, spent large amounts of time, or have or currently
live in "predominantly minority" (boy, I love THAT phrase) neighborhoods.

Some of us have "minority" wives, husbands, children, etc. Some of us have
actually done volunteer work in poorer neighborhoods. Some of us are therefore
far more aware of the problems discussed than you seem to be able to give 
credit for. 

BTW, you use the word "hypocrites" above; you mean "uninformed". Someone who
blanketly makes a statement about a group of people based on their skin
color, and then says "they" cannot understand what it feels like to be 
treated as if "they" were the same as everyone else of that skin color
is a "hypocrite".

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Melting Pot Semantic (was Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions)
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:00:56 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh) (or is it Laly Thao?) writes:
>I would have to differ with your melting pot interpretation.  I've always
>thought that the melting pot concept embraced a "unity in diversity" theme,
>or have I been brainwashed by the public school system?  Of course it is
>an ideal interpretation and as we know ideal and real worlds do not
>necessarily coincide with each other.  Nevertheless the melting pot most
>certainly does not strip us of our individuality.

>laly thao

>	melting pot recipe:  8 parts caucasoid to 2 parts mongoloid,
>                             stir well and watch it boil  :-)

I believe the old "melting pot theory" is that we do blend and become
one.  The "unity in diversity theory" is sometimes called the
"salad bowl theory" since a melting pot is not a good analogy to
united yet diverse.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Subject: Re: TV news anchors/reporters (Re: Internment camps)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:12:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.090716.2521@sco.com>, garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes...
> 
>In article <6AUG199216201789@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
>!
>!Ken Kashiwahara is a ABC field reporter where occasionally his reports show
>!up on national news.  He is not a regular like those stationed in the White
>!House or the Capitol.  There are one or two other male AA field reporters but
>!their names escape me at the moment.  But there are no AA male local-news 
>!anchors that I know of.  Anybody know of one?
> 
>I always though he did the national news.
> 
Yes, what I meant by field reporter is that he is not the anchorperson.
His reports appear on national news though (but not daily).

-- Makoto
From: lulu@troi.ucr.edu (david lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:55:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <16udi9INNqj6@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>
>    "Miya Dodd, 15, student, Tulsa: (answers)
>     Having so many Orientals in the continental U.S.A. 
>     Coming to S.F. I expected to see surfers and here are all 
>     these Orientals. I'm part Japanese. I'm used to being the
>     one who is different! Seeing so many in the U.S.A. is
>     getting on my nerves."
>
>Weird, I thought. Is this a common attitude out in Tulsa?
>Actually now that I think about it, it reflects the 
>"exotic asian girlfriend" theory. Are AF's considered 
>more exotic out in the midwest? They certainly aren't 
>a rarity here at U.C. Berkeley (enrollment is about 1/3 asian)
>What about AM?

Well, California *does* have a lot of Asians (and Hispanics,
and blacks, and ...).  I had the same weird feeling ("Wow,
everyone's just like me!") when I first moved from Arizona
to California.  A lot of Californians don't believe this,
but California is *not* representative of the rest of the
US.  I doubt if you'll find as high of a percentage of
Asians attending the Univeristy of South Dakota.

			- David

-- 
---==lulu@ucrengr==---  just another overworked graduate student.
David T Lu, Amateur Thinker: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu, {ucsd, uci}!ucrengr!lulu
"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
					- Arthur Dent, Hitchhiker's
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:58:07 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <my4mh-h.kemnitz@netcom.com> kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
>A problem I've always had with the notions of race-based simplification is
>that the notion that all, or even most, Whites are somehow members of a ruling
>elite is manifestly untrue.  There is certainly a ruling elite, and it is
>almost uniformly white, but the majority of Whites don't belong to it.  And

The reason the majority of whites don't belong is that the ruling elite
is a very small minority of the people in your country. Even if the ruling
elite were all Japanese, there wouldn't be enough of them for the majority
of Japanese to be in the ruling elite.

>Concern over struggling immigrants falls on deaf ears as well - throughout
>American history, immigrants have always struggled, and it seems among Asian

Yes, but did the Asian immigrants decide to "negotiate" (a careful
choice of words. "Steal" and "forcibly take" might be more suitable
land from the people who were already living here? Not that this is
relevant to the topic at hand, I just have a personal beef about the
treatment of AmerIndians.   


Well, actually, I don't disagree with what you had to say as much as you
might think. I'm just nitpicking about a few things. I guess I must have
too much spare time or something.

-leon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Book News
Originator: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:05:00 GMT

Hey Folks,
	I just heard that Gus Lee's _China Boy_ has just come
out in paperback.  Previously, I had given this book a big
thumbs-up for being fun, Hemingwayesqueishly-male, and very
inclusively multi-cultural.
	Also, someone on the net (I'm sorry I forgot.) had
recommended Dave Mura's _Turning Japanese_.  I'll second the
rec, although this is a pretty high-brow book (lots of literary
and sociological references) and is also pretty subtle on Asian-American
issues.  A good read nonetheless.
	Finally, any comments on Louie's _Pangs of Love_?  Is
it worth reading?
					--Alan Hu
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Call For New FAQ
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:29:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug14.143041.28106@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.023242.20149@bnr.ca> thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh) writes:
>>this new faq would entail the direct/indirect hints
>>that af's give to am's for dating purposes.
>  That's a good idea.  Often-times I'm not sure if the AsAm guy
>  was not interested, or that the AAF didn't give out enough
>  hints.

	Or the guy is particularly dense. Might be a group trait....

>Scene 1:
	Oh, s***.

>Scene 2:
	Oh, s***.

>Scene 3:
	Oh, s***.

>Scene 4:
	Oh, s***.


>Scene 7:
>  1)  The unbalanced AAF will pronounce that her therapist has
>  decided that she get out more.  Therefore as part of her
>  therapy, you, designated harmless nice AA boy, will help
>  her to the road of recovery littered with the relics of
>  ye-many white men.  
>  2)  Run away screaming for the hills.

	Done that.

>Scene 8:
> 1)  The assertive,professional and over-30 AAF who has read all
> the books on "how to get a man", will professionally and crisply
> announce, "You know, I find you quite interesting, why don't
> we get together for dinner some time?  Are you free Friday,
> good, let me make a note of that on my HP personal date-tracker."

	Never happen in a million years.




-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: White Guys Superior?
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:58:48 GMT

In article <169r5bINNi7o@cs.utexas.edu> srin@cs.utexas.edu (Srinivas Nedunuri) writes:
>In article <houch.713142957@cavern> houch@cavern.mitre.org writes:
>>panwar@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Ramesh Panwar) writes:

>The fact is its not at all easy to forge real friendships between 
>culturally different groups. 

I don't think anybody ever claimed it was easy - I do believe it's
worth the effort.

>The problem is that it isn't immediately clear to me why two 
>groups of people (take any two arbitary groups) should neccessarily associate 
>with one another.

But we're not really talking about groups associating (I mean, trying
to merge the Asian Students Association and the United Christian
Fellowship would be silly!), but about individuals within the groups
associating.  (For example, if a hypothetical girl named Sarita
belonged to both the Asian group and the Christian group, it would be
very natural for her to have friends in both groups.  Perhaps she
would introduce people from one group to the other.  A Hindu guy from
the Asian group might meet a black Christian girl, and they might hit
it off.  Perhaps decide to date.  Maybe get married - who knows? :-)

>I don't see this problem going away. With the increasing diversity of 
>immigration into the US, the workplace 20 years from now, just to give an 
>example, could be a real Tower of Babel of languages, customs and attitudes. 
>Some kind of attitude shift is going to be required to avert this. 

I think it already is a Tower of Babel.  I doubt I could find *any*
friends who fit into exactly the same categories I do.  I'm Sri
Lankan.  So I could exclude everybody from my circle of friends who
wasn't Sri Lankan.  I'm Tamil...so I exclude all Singhalese Sri
Lankans.  I'm agnostic...so I exclude all religious Tamils.  I'm
politically liberal...so I exclude all conservatives.  I read sf and
fantasy...so I exclude everybody who doesn't.   I'd be left with my
only friends being Sri Lankan Tamils who are agnostic, liberal, read
sf and fantasy, are musicians, like Renaissance Faires, enjoy Middle
Eastern food, etc and so on.

Once you start excluding people - for whatever reason - you start
shutting yourself into smaller and smaller boxes...until finally
you're crammed into something about 5x5.  Doubt you'd have much room
left for friends.

>--s;

 - Amirthi


-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Call For New FAQ
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:32:42 GMT

well, after clare's posts concerning dense and otherwise
hint-impaired am's, i feel that a new faq is necessary.
this new faq would entail the direct/indirect hints
that af's give to am's for dating purposes.

i am serious about this faq.  after all, i may be
missing out on some things  :-)

clare, if it's any consolation, will you go out with
me on an electronic date?  :-)  yes, i'm aware that
you are married...and i hope your husband isn't reading
this.  :-)  ;-)

laly thao

P. S. Mr. Ayala, i'm just kidding.  :-)


/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
\***********************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young)
Subject: Trippy Posts Here
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:30:01 GMT

Well......I'm new to this group,and was trippin' through the articles.And can't figure out something
I am a white male,and I find asian women attractive(although I find all women attractive)and after
reading all the flames about this and that,where do I fit in???

I read how white men go for asian women,because they can't score with white chicks!?
**I don't get it?**I would like to date an asian-american,but,I can score with white chicks.Does this
mean that an asian-american woman/lady/girl wouldn't go out with me?

Also that there aren't many AAF/CM couples.Does this mean that AAF's aren't interested in CM's??
(did that come out right??)

And how asian-american women can't score with white guy's???(I hope this is right,you people were
flinging so much shit around it was hard to follow the topic's!)

I'm gonna' read this group for a while so all of you can explain it to me!
If any asian lady's would like to talk(do they like to talk to white guy's??)I would be happy to.
And if any of you ladies would like to go out let me know(that is if you like white guy's,I'm still
not clear on this,sorry!)

		Love women of any race,hate Homo's of any race!(no I'm not a homophobe or racist)
					John)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian