From: wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:38:29 GMT
	<1992Aug18.023221.58228@cc.usu.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Ah ha, but what if a player can convince you that it makes sense that 
>something IS there when you had decided (or were in the process of 
>deciding) that there wasn't something there? Or what if the players 
>together try to influence these kinds of decisions? GMs aren't immune
>to peer pressure. I am not saying you have a problem with this, these 
>are general arguments. 

	What if I made a mistake? What if in my preparations, I had forgotten
to consider <bla>? Your argument rests on the problem of GMs who are
unduly influenced by their players. I argue that this really doesn't
make preparation better or worse. GMs who are influenced are likely to
be influenced in any case.

>argument in favor of improvisation. What I am saying is that preparing
>things in advance can insulate you from subtle player influence and
>from your own favoritism, prejudice, whatever.

	If the players have a problem with something that is happening, saying
that 'Well, that's just how things are' isn't likely to be more
compelling. You are still the one who made the stuff up. And,
personally, I don't find 'subtle player influence' to be all that much
of a problem. I think a mature GM won't have a problem, and an immature
one is going to have problems with any system.
	So far, the only compelling argument is to use whichever method is more
comfortable to you.

>> Actually, I am known among players at CMU as one of the top two GMs...
>
>And?

Quoting out of context? This came after:
>And people who wing it are too lazy or unorganized to prepare things in
>advance. As they get more mature and in control of their lives, they 
>find time to prepare meaningful, epic-like campaigns, for which their
>players will eternally remember them. 

ie- people regard my stuff as memorable and meaningful. So improve does
work. I don't know if you detected the connection...

>> Well, this argument rests on the assumption that preparing ahead of
>> time would be impartial, while improvisation is heavily influenced.
>
>I think that's what I just said. Improv GMs are vulnerable to the
>actions, requests and influence of the players, because the players 
>are present and active while the GM is making up the scenario. The

	My point is that I don't agree with these assumptions. I think GMs are
vulnerable in any case, and clutching to preparation as a 'shield'
against your players is likely to cause tension.

>How about a definition of ``railroading?'' I for one have never heard 
>players say ``Oohh! I don't want to play in this scenario! You're rail-
>roading me!'' If I am railroading the players by preparing scenarios for

	Railroading is forcing the players to do something they don't want to
do, or don't think their characters would do, simply because they are
deviating from the plot. It can be subtle or overt... I think you
improvise enough for it not to be a problem.

>Additionally, if you are improvising a lot because the players are doing
>things so fast that you can't prepare, then aren't they railroading you
>into doing things their way? So what is the harm in doing things your
>way? 

	I don't improvise because they are doing things too quickly, I
improvise so that things remain very flexible. Besides, I make the world
and the NPCs... there is enough room to guide things without forcing
them into one plan of action.

>Try to keep in mind that this discussion has turned into one that focuses
>less on personal preferences and more on general aspects. We've already 
>established that everyone has ``his/her own way,'' so now we're just sort
>of chewing the fat about the pro's and con's of both ways.

Hmm.
Improv: +flexibility, -chaotic, Allows many threads to be handled, Can
get confusing.
Prep: +structured, -narrow, Allows organized 'reality', Can be too narrow.

-Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc