HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: of@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Fibre Optics)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:20:28 GMT

In <3342@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:

>In article <12564@ecs.soton.ac.uk> of@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Fibre Optics) writes:
>>Obviously I can't _prove_ anything to you but I know several that were
>>created by humans last year. I know the guys that made them.
>>

>Did they let you watch them create them?  Or did you just take their
>word on it?

They did it as part of a TV programme. Terence Meaden (I think) was
conned the next day into pronouncing it 'genuine'.

>Actually, it's far easier to prove a human made a crop circle than it
>has been to prove an alien (or Plasma, or Bigfoot, or whatever) created
>one.

Quite.

>Yes, mine was a rhetorical question.  

>And my point, all along, is that while some of the circles have apparently
>been made by men, no one has yet to prove that men made all of them.  Those
>that dismiss crop circles as being man-made may be hastily dismissing
>some that originate from other sources.

Hey, look, I agree with you. These hoaxed circles, and there were
lots, prove nothing. They're just noise on any signal there may be.
Last year's hoaxing activities effectively drowned out any signal.

>We can dance around semantics all day...  you'll not convice me that
>men created all of the circles.  There will always be room for doubt, at least
>until something else steps forward as an obvious explanation.

More or less my point. You did say _any_ circles though.
>-- 



-- 
Peter Harris   G4BDQ  |         Unusual exploding disclaimer  ->    (}|){//)
Fibre Optics *-----------------------------------------------------(--PAF !-)
Southampton University| "Relax in the safety of your own delusions" (/}|{\\)
of@ecs.soton.ac.uk    |           Kerry Wendell Thornley              |||
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Those Breakdancing Rocks.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 06:48:27 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Rock Hounds: Sticks and stones may bread my bones but those rocks
keep on hunchings. It have not observed the movements of rocks personally.
I have heard of people communicating with rocks. I personally prefer
dogs or trees.
John Winston.
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:5564 alt.conspiracy:9926 alt.activism:14671 sci.skeptic:14160 misc.headlines:5530 alt.politics.bush:1226
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: John Lear info from Matrix (long)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 08:07:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <gz7mrbk.jeffp@netcom.com>

Dear Jeff: I believe there is a lot of truth in what you have to say.
Keep up the good work.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton)
Subject: Re: Alien visitors?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:06:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.173030.6788@nntp.hut.fi> hpesonen@vipunen.hut.fi (Harri P Pesonen) writes:
>Hello, I subscribed to this newsgroup a couple of days ago, because
>I saw a fascinating (!) program about UFOs in our local telly.
>It was an american program which covered all usual (?) facts (:-))
>about extra terrestials, like Project Blue Book.
>
>I was hoping to find more info about ETs on this newsgroup, but so far
>the most interesting thing has been some weird story about mental 
>hospitals, called INVASION!!  
>
>Don't any of you have a real personal experience about UFOs?  If you do,
>would you be so kind to share that with me.  At least, would you be
>able to answer the following question:
>
>Are there any alien visitors on earth or not?
>
>Or better yet:
>
>Are there any alien visitors on this newsgroup?
>
>
>Thanks,
>		Harri
>-- 
>Harri Pesonen, Helsinki, Finland, Europe?

your message has a glint of cynicism that we will overlook for now.

here is a story that seemed, IMHO, to have the elements of an abduction.

one night, i crashed REAL HARD on the downstairs sofa of our apartment.
this is something i never do.  my wife came downstairs to awaken me. this was in the middle of the night.  she was visibly shaken.  what she told me was 
something right out of budd hopkins intruders.  she wouldn't think of reading
that kind of "trash."

it seems she was taken into a "craft" that could look down upon a city in which she used to live.  there was an escourt taking her on an escalator of sorts which had a falling person in front of her.  she remembers having to get out of the way.  later, she was in bed and knew there were some beings behind the head board next to the wall.  she was unable to move.  there was a vile ov what she called "viscious liquid" on the night stand.  the "people" behind her tried to calm her at this point.  she was unab

le to move.  frozen.  then she came down and woke me up.  why didn't the dog near me bark if there were "beings" in the apartment?  why was i crashed so hard?  

nasty dream if you ask me.

gb

-- 
gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu.............copyright 1992 gary burton........
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:35:42 GMT

In <1992Aug13.191152.2719@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes:

>Here's another interesting thing from the Crop Circle Communique video:
>Some German students managed to videotape a small white disk flying through
>a crop formation in the middle of the day, then ascending into the air and
>disappearing.  This is clearly visible in the video.  Once again, no one
>can explain it.

Wrong.

Several people have explained it, long before the video became
widely-circulated.  I have a copy.  I share the opinion of many people
that the object (which is not a white disc at all, but an oblong blob)
is more likely a piece of paper being tossed about by the wind, hence
its erratic behaviour and darting in and out among the tops of the
plants.

No, I am not a skeptic or debunker.  I'm a cerealogist.  But because I
can explain some of the alleged effects and formations does not mean I
discount the entire phenomenon.  What I can say is that the video is
nor proof that Andrews' theory (or Meaden's, for that matter) is
supported by the evidence.  What we can say is that there are
unexplained observations and effects, but NO theory so far proposed
seems satisfactory.

-- 
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 10:03:11 GMT

In article <kivaman.713891474@milton> kivaman@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark Hammergren) writes:
>jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>
>>...
>>If it was the work of the US government, why wouldn't they raise the cattel
>>themselves? Much cheaper than flying multimillion dollar helicopters
>>around, which is the ONLY possible "other" explaination for all of this.
>>...
>
>If it IS the work of aliens, why don't they raise the cattle THEMSELVES?
>Much cheaper than flying spacecraft dozens of light years...
>
Maybe they watched predator to many times? But being so skinny, they decided 
that cattle would be more likely prey.

>Just my 2 credits worth...

Charles Buckley

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Subject: Re: physical evidence
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:05:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
>>   events in it.  Turn on a videotape loop every night before going
>>   to bed.  Maybe prepare the ground outside to mark footprints.
>>   Set up automatic video or camera equipment around the house 
>>   to record people (beings, whatever) going in and out.  Et cetera.
>
>
>It's been done.  There are recordings of a subject sleepwalking while
>she turns the camera off.  Supposedly the beings remained off-camera until
>this happened.
>
>Now part of the claims of the abductees is that there seems to be a form
>of telepathy involved.  If that's the case (What? Now I have to prove
>Telepathy, Too??) then you'll not only have to put a camera on the 
>victim and their residence, but you'll also have to do it without
>the victim's knowledge.  And also, you'll have to avoid having
>someone watching from nearby, with the knowledge the events are taped.
>You might put someone nearby, and put them on camera, too, without
>their knowledge.  If they know about it, they can think about it, and
>if Telepathy is associated with this, then the abductors will know 
>about it.
>
>Of course, they might have some means to scan for electrical activity
>nearby... 
>
>Rick
>
I met a lady whom was abducted, and she spoke of how the greys knew that
she had a lot of guns in the house. They asked her why? (She is a PI)

So obviously, they can scan the contents of a dwelling in pretty short
order, and they know who is there, and what is there, and anything
your thinking about.

Not too difficult compared to beeming in thru walls and windows:
She said her very solid bathroom wall became opaque, and the aliens
left thru it (which is much like what most abductees report) although 
they are reported to preferre windows to walls.

Jeff-
 
>Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
>kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
>AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
>r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.
From: markh@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Mark Holladay)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: DNA
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:52:56 GMT
Organization: University of Hawaii at Manoa




     This is a question directed to the dude who mutates his DNA
while sitting in a hot tube with space chicks.  Have you ever
wondered if this mutation is beneficial or not?  I mean what if
spikes instead of hair start growing out of your head, and a little
lizard tail starts growing out your rear end.  I'd think you would
look pretty funny walking down the street.  Better stay in your hot
tub.  Who knows, maybe the lizoids have a cosmic ray DNA mutation
bean on you right now?

     Just a thought...
From: jmv@halibut.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:26:05 GMT
Organization: GRASP Lab

In article <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes:
> jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes:
> 
> 
> >YES, DEFINITLY YES. I think the "Prime Directive" argument of Star Trek >could apply to aliens as well. Besides, if the aliens really didn't care, >they would land randomly. Too bad they never land in center city. 
> 
> JM,
>  Please explain the pattern to the alien landings to me because I fail
> to see one. And where is center city? How do you know they didn't land
> there?
>  Do you believe that every ship in the sky is seen?


Rick,

The pattern of UFO landing seems pretty clear to me:

1) locate crop, away from any major people concentration, but not to far
away so that people can discover your tracks,
2) land


And I know they didn't land near any major city in this world.
Could any crop specialist compile a list of crop circle locations ?
I'll bet they are not randomly located... US and England seem to
attract them like magnets.


JM.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President...
Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:55:56 GMT

[alt.alien.visitors]
In article <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>
>Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away.

Gary, if you'd like to help take back control from the government, I'm
running for president (see alt.politics.kibo.)  Would you like to be my
running mate?  (I asked Mike Jittlov, but he seems to be busy.  You're
every bit as energetic, and I see energy as the prime quality necessary
to properly confuse the media.)

							-- Kibo
From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President...
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:30:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

<ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>You know, a lot of people in this newsgroup go off on Gary
>because of the things he writes in his paranoid articles.

>Lay off the guy.

>I happen to find his material more interesting than most
>of the stuff that fills this area on the net. His postings
>are especially more interesting than the ridicule he receives
>for his efforts (although about six months ago there was
>some really hilarious feedback at Gary's expense).

>Aren't we supposed to be keeping an open mind about all this?
>Its obvious that Gary is a sensitive guy, and apparently he has
>been scared off the net by all those nasty nincompoops who bashed
>him emotionally and intellectually.

>One thing is for sure -- Gary believes the things he is posting.
>Also, people are definitely harassing him (those counterfeit "fuck
>the CIA" letters clearly were not written by Stollman - I knew that
>even before he denied it publicly).

>Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away.

>Hey - maybe I'm the governement or the greys, and I tracked
>Gary down to eat his brain. Better watch out...you may be next!
>-------
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ROWHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.BITNET~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>!!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 $$$ (212) 772-4279 $$$ !!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, I sure appreciate that!!  Except for the "paranoid" part...Don't worry!
I am STILL here!!!

	Gary Stollman
From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:22:15 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <139846.2A92F4E0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes...
>The transmission that was taped was probably someone using packet radio or 
>some other type of telemetry.  I don't see how they can definitively identify 
>the signal as an alien signal, or even speculate that it is.
> 
>Mike
> 

That was exactly the impression I got, too. Whoever came across the signal must
have never listened to shortwave radio before, because you hear stuff like that
all through the HF bands, all the time. Telemetry, pagers, RTTY, packet radio,
satellites, radar, RC models and so on and so on...
-Tom R.   randolph@est.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:27:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
[...]

>I can't prove a negative any more than someone can prove the positive.

Say what?

>I can't prove the aliens made any of the crop circles and no one can
>prove to the same level of certainty that humans created all of them.
>
>Sure, you can jump on the simple explanation and try to make it apply
>to all of the circles...  any fool can do that...
>
>Rick
>:-)
>-- 
>Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
>kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
>AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
>r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  

Rich

payner@netcom.com
From: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: crop circles?
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:54:05 EST
Reply-To: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

RP=>Keith, investigations into the claims of the 'confessing hoaxters'
  =>revealed that they were likely paid to 'confess' by Her Majesties'
  =>government.

What evidence was presented to support this theory?

               Russel
---
  1st 1.00 #279  1stReader: Dance with the one that brung ya.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 15 Aug 92 09:47:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes:
>>Unsolved Mysteries *did* set up cameras to find out what was
>>going on a couple (?) of years ago, and caught people faking 
>>the circles.
>Without going into the quality of the data they collected, or of the
>scientific validity of their techniques (or for that matter, their 
>reputation), I'll accede to the assumption that people (from Earth :-)
>have indeed created crop circles.  But that merely proves that they
>took pictures of people making circles.  For all we know, behind the
>scenes they could have staged the whole thing.

>Once again, my point isn't that earthlings created crop circles,
>my point is that I object to the absolute assertation that earthlings
>created ALL of the circles.  This is simply because no one has proven
>that they were ALL created by earthlings.  

>Here's the assertion.  At least two or more Crop Circles were known to
>have been caused by Earthlings.  Ergo, they all must have been.

>I say "Prove it".

You can't "prove" that.  You can prove that an individual circle was created
by humans, but you can't with one sweep prove that every circle was create
by humans.  You are looking for a proof that does not exist.

keith
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Reply-To: stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com (David R. Stepien)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:18:22 GMT


kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.
>com writes:
>
>>Crop circles have been found in fields of rape flowers in England.
>>When the circles were formed, the plants were about as bendable as
>>a stalk of celery.  Everyone knows what happens when you try to bend
>>celery - it snaps.  Yet these plants were bent at perfect 90 degree
>>angles without a break.  Quote from "Crop Circle Communique" - "There
>>is not a single botanist on the face of the earth that can explain 
>>how this occurred".
>
>Citations, please.
>
>Or the address for the newsletters... (yes, again if it's been posted).
>And ftp site for info on circles would be peachy.  And an address for
>the admin of a mail.list.
>
>Thanks, Rick

I haven't seen any of the skeptics picking up on this one - come on you
guys, how do you explain it????????

Here's the reference:

Crop Circle Communique Video - $35.00
Available from: Linda Moulton Howe Productions
                P.O. Box 538
                Huntington Valley, PA. 19006
Also:

The Cerealogist - The Journal for Crop Circle Studies
20 Paul Street, Frome, Somerset, England BA11 1DX
or call your order to 0373-451777
1 yr subscription (3 issues) for $18 US

Another good reference is the Feb. 1 1992 Issue of Science News which
discusses the geometrical significance of many of the designs.
From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Book: The Bible and UFOs (can you help?)
Keywords: bible, UFO
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:27:44 GMT
Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug20.174852.1376@mksol.dseg.ti.com> degroot@mksol.dseg.ti.com (doug degroot) writes:
>
>I am trying to find what appears to be an obviously out of print book. I found
>this book in the Merridian, Mississippi library, of all places, while selling
>Bibles in Mississippi the summer I graduated from high school. The book was
>entitled something like "The Bible and UFOs" or "UFOs and the Bible" or whatever.
>Doug DeGroot
>degroot@dog.dseg.ti.com


If you should find any information on this book please share it.
I would also like to read it. Were you aware the Vatican has in there
posession one or more of the dead sea scrolls that deal with extrat-
erestrial visitations and they won't let anyone else see it?

--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||      Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992    ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:42:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <64094@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes...
>---One of the places that Buck was taken was a ten mile long bridge
>on the Moon. There is a crater near Mare Crisium and Mare Illium that
>can be seen by telescope best during the first 3 days of a new moon.
>At this time the shadows are just right so the bridge can be seen
>using a refractor type telescope using from 60 to 120 power. Many 
>people like to mine rock from the moon because it has not broken down
>into gravel and soil as it has on most other planets. This bridge covers
>a crater 10 miles across and the people doing the mining use vehicles 
>that hover about 3 feet or less off the ground, so it is better for them
>to go over the bridge to get from one side to the  other. A shift of work
>is about 3 hours.  That is why the lights come on and then off. John Winston
======================================================================
Mr. Winston,
  I don't normally do this but you are even getting pass my kill file.
This is like a virus that can't be eradicated. I first posted that article
about Transcient Lunar Anomalies over a month ago to try and see if any-
one else on the NET had seen or read anything about such events. There was
even a amateur photograph in Sky and Telescope about thirty years ago re-
garding this supposed bridge. I was also trying to shift some of the talk
to another topic rather the debate over crop circles, which is rather like
the one many years ago about how many angels could dance on the end of a pin.
I -don't- care. They can jitterbug or two-step, it makes no difference to
me. Also it wouldn't matter if it was a refractor or reflector or some kind
of astral lens (which wouldn't surprise me a bit in your case).If you want
me to believe in your little astral coffee klatch come and pay me a visit
that I am aware of some time. Look my address up in the cosmic phone book.
					With more sincerity than you know,
							Jim
======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    jim@apsicc.aps.edu
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager 
======================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors