HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Subject: Re: SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:28:37 GMT

In article <13681@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
 >In article <1992Dec15.210400.2846@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
 >>    The plan calls for NUCLEAR WAR ONE to erupt by September of
 >> this year 1982!!  It is this fast-approaching nuclear war threat
 >> that caused the so-called Falklands crisis to erupt now.
 
 >Damn!  I missed NUCLEAR WAR ONE!  No one ever tells me ANYTHING!

 NUCLEAR WAR ONE ended in 1945, yes?
 -- 
 >Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
 >C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.


Larry J



-- 
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: kill file
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Distribution: soc
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:41:50

Wow!  22 postings to this newsgroup, and my kill file zapped them all.
No-one without a vigorous kill file is likely to survive this
newsgroup.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: re: Recalling in sorrow the victims of the supermarket massacre
Date: 17 Dec 1992 08:22:19 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Arxid) [The pride of AT&T, Hasan B Mutlu] writes:
re: Recalling in sorrow the victims of the Azeri Genocide.

(* >Having been in this country for 10 years (and having dealt with an almost
(* >infinite number of idiotic teenagers working as supermarket cashiers,
(* >all making cute remarks about Tri*'s name) I pretty much have learned to
(*  
(* Living things have been doing just that for a long, long time, "sipa of
(* delco". It's the "sipa" thing that I envy. Now, any comment?
(*  
(*      Armenian Soldiers Massacre Hundreds of Fleeing Families:
(*  
(*  'The Armenians just shot and shot. And they came in and started carving 
                                                                    ^^^^^^^
(*  up people with their bayonets and knives.'  A 45-year-old man who had been 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(*  shot in the back  said:' We were walking through the brush. Then they opened 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(*  up on us and people were falling all around. [...] 

Yea, one comment, Arxid Effendi... I just got a wonderful idea of what to
do the next time an idiotic teenager working as a supermarket cashier
makes cute remarks about Tri*'s name. How's this:

        Tri* Family Massacres Dozens of Supermarket Cashiers

'The Tri* family just shot and shot. And they came in and started
carving up teenage supermarket cashiers with their bayonets and
knives.'  A 15-year-old who had been shot in the back said:' We were
done weighting in the chickens and turkeys... Then they opened up on
us and people were falling all around. [...]

Any comments, Arxid Effendi?

Spiros
--
              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\               

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:42:18 GMT


jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>You didn't say "isn't necessarily the opinion" but rather "isn't the
>opinion", thus inadvertently committing your employer.  I was simulating
>a PC type.  I can never remember how to make the different kinds of
>smileys and don't feel like studying the matter.
>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

He who refuses to understand smileys is doomed to have his jokes fall flat.

-----
Eric Smith         | Joel:  "What do you guys want for Christmas?"
erics@sco.com      | Gypsy: "I want a pony!"
erics@infoserv.com | Crow:  "I want to have the power over who lives
CI$: 70262,3610	   |         and who dies."
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: More Greek Atrocities towards Supermarket Cashiers
Date: 18 Dec 1992 08:52:34 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Arxid, or the pride of AT&T, Hasan B-) Mutlu) writes:
(* (*      Armenian Soldiers Massacre Hundreds of Fleeing Families:
(* (*  
(* >Yea, one comment, Arxid Effendi... I just got a wonderful idea of what to
(* >do the next time an idiotic teenager working as a supermarket cashier
(* >makes cute remarks about Tri*'s name. How's this:
(* >        Tri* Family Massacres Dozens of Supermarket Cashiers
(* 
(* What else is new, anyway?
(*  
(*  <<In Corfu Jews were subjected to violent attacks and almost constant
(*   persecution by its Greek population. They had to row in the galleys
(*   even when they had committed no crime. They had to provide food and
(*   lodging for soldiers on demand, were required to go to Greek law courts
(*   on the Sabbath as well as during Jewish festivals, and as elsewhere in
(*   the Byzantine empire they were compelled to act as public executioners,
(*   adding to the public wrath to which they were normally subjected. After
(*   Venice took control of the island in 1386, conditions became even worse.>>
 
See, Arxid Effendi, the problem with the Jews of Corfu was that they were
running the local supermarkets. Since Jewish names are typically shorter 
and simpler to pronounce than Greek names, this was the root cause of the
conflict. 

 "A Greek would go to buy turkey and chicken at the local Jewish-run supermarket.
 Invariably the teenage daughter of the owner, let's call her Bitchme Errrrin,
 (with four r's, like Purrrrdue) would try some idiotic comment on the
 customer's name. The customer would then get pissed and perform indescribable
 acts of violence against Bitchme. It is theorized that the idiotic
 teenagers learned of the practice, called turk-o-phonics, during summer
 visits to the motherland. [1]"

 "The conflict continued thru the centuries as the Jewish run supermarkets
 had excellent prices and food stuff, but rude teenagers in the checkout
 line. Caught in the dillema of excellent prices vs. turk-o-phonics, the
 conflict widened... [2]"

[1] [2] "The Modern Supermarket, Myths and Truths", by Ispirtoski Sipaoglu,
Purrrrdue University, West Lafayette, TRNC, 1992, pages 22 to 22.

Spiros
--
(I think I forgot something)
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: IRISH: Easter Rising 1916??
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec16.154508.10444@oz.plymouth.edu>
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:40:05

Steffan O'Sullivan ends two very informative posts with:


     As I said, pointless but interesting speculation.  I wonder
     if the Easter Uprising did more harm than good to Irish
     Catholics in the long run?

Irish nationalism often did not take a Catholic vs. Protestant form.
Many prominent Irish nationalists since the 18th century were
Protestants.  I agree with O'Sullivan that things might have turned
out quite differently.  Home Rule almost passed several times, although
early in the century Winston Churchill described the British dilemma
in Ireland in similar terms to those used today.

The Irish were unlucky in 1690 to get involved on the losing side
of an English civil war, somewhat over religion but also dynastic.
James II had been deposed and tried to make a comeback through
Ireland.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: thumper@engin.umich.edu (Bob Topping)
Subject: Re: Posting American Civil War Stuff
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:54:56 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Dec17.075907.16232@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn) writes:
>
>To those who are posting to the "alt4ernate history" thread: remember, there is
>an alt.war.civil.usa group that would love to have/discuss your posts.
>
>If you have access--
>
>PDunn

  Is there any newsgroup devoted to discussing alternate histories??  I mean,
it would sure be a lot more interesting than MOST of the stuff that appears
on this particular group.  (Re: Se*dar A*gic)

  --Bob.

-- 
@ "Our lives are better left to chance;  ****      PLEASE!  E-Mail to:       @
@   I could have missed the pain, but    ****  bob.topping@um.cc.umich.edu   @
@   I'd have had to miss the dance."     ****  phy_astrclub@emunix.emich.edu @
@  Garth Brooks, The Dance.   @>-,'--    ****     :::RETURN OUR HURON!:::    @ 
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:03:33 GMT

Cameron Laird writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:

>>>>>In the Mexican/American War, is it true that the U.S. Marines killed millions
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>If it's America bashing time, in rebutal there are-
>>
>>     1. the Alamo, and
>>     2. Goliad

>Your examples, and the battle for Chapultepec,
>happened during different wars.  I don't think
>it vitiates the point you're trying to communi-
>cate, and expect that you're well aware of the
>fact, but it might confuse some of your readers.

While technically Cameron is correct, in reality the Mexican War was simply
the culmination of the Texas War of Independence.  Remember that at the
time Texas became a state, the Texas War of Independence was technically
still going on, so it was a war that the U.S. inherited.

Consider-

     1. Santa Ana's invasion of Tejas in February, 1836 was  a direct
	violation of the armistice agreed to by his brother-in-law,
	General Cos in December, 1835.

     2.	The Mexican government refused to recognize the armistice agreed
	to by Santa Ana at San Jacinto.

     3.	The Mexican government never recognized the independence of Tejas,
	and did commit an act of war (a raid on Laredo) in the early 1840's.

     4.	Mexico broke off diplomatic relations with the U.S. when Texas
	became a state, claiming that the U.S. had granted statehood to
	an area that was Mexican territory.

To Texans (formerly Texicans), the Alamo, Goliad, San Jacinto, Santa
Fe, Laredo, Fort Texas (-> Fort Brown -> Brownsville), Vera Cruz,
Chapultepec, etc., are part of the same war.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Re: Bronze in Native America
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:14:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.205841.18449@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson) writes:
> The subject of metals came up a while ago and I thought I
> remembered something about bronze, but didn't have time to look it
> up.  I just found the following in my archives which I wrote some
> time ago:
> 
> Someone on this newsgroup had mentioned that he thought he
> remembered that the Aztecs might have used bronze weapons. 

 I recently visited the Aztec exhibit at the Denver Museum of Natural History -
 it asserts that all of the Aztec weapons were made from stone. I don't
 remember seeing any metal implements, though I could easily have missed them.

 Incidentally if anyone here will be spending time in Denver during the next
 couple of months, be sure to catch this exhibit. It is based on recent 
 excavations from the Templo Mayor in Mexico City, and will not travel - after
 February, the artifacts go back to Mexico. Yes, plenty of attention is given
 to the human sacrifices - there is a 1/10 scale model of the Temple which
 shows the blood stains where the bodies were rolled down the steps, as well 
 as actual sacrificial knives, etc.  - and to  the rigid social stratification
 in the society, although there was no mention of cannibalism - is the latter
 established fact, or conjecture?  The organizer of the exhibit  (and leader 
 of the archeological digs) is Eduardo Matos Moctezuma, a  descendant of 
 the Emperor who met Cortes.

 Robert
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt)
Subject: Re: Civil War Alternate Histories
Followup-To: soc.history
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:46:49 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec18104537@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I think the posters on the question of continued slavery underestimate the
>importance of moral issues.  Marxism made this fashionable, and
>many people still consider completely ignoring the effects of people's
>ideas of morality on their policy as a sign of sophistication.

Read my post again.  One of my points was that the creation of a free
labor market brought along with it a transformation in notions of both
humanitarianism and the mutual responsibilities between employer and
employee (itself a different notion) -- both of these sensibilities
found slavery repulsive.  Why else would abolitionists in London be able
to ban slavery at the fringes of the British Empire?

Does the mere hint of materialism get your own ideological hackles up,
John?  Is there a problem with the possible interactions between (gasp!)
historically-changing notions of morality and material circumstances.
Even non-marxists agree with that one -- for something on this issue,
see Thomas Haskell's 2-part article on capitalism and the origins of
antislavery in the AHR, 1985.      

Gary

-- 
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
  ||    |    Gary| L. Hewitt|       |   ||  HELP!  I've been imprisoned
  || glh|ewitt@ph|oenix.prin|ceton.e|du ||  by my .signature!  HELP!
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:57:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.165236.5073@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>>>In the Mexican/American War, is it true that the U.S. Marines killed millions
			.
			.
			.
>If it's America bashing time, in rebutal there are-
>
>     1. the Alamo, and
>     2. Goliad
>
>In the case of the Alamo, men who were waving white flags (as the
>Mexicans went from room to room in the Long Barracks) were killed,
>as were 6 or so survivors of the battle.  In the case of Goliad,
>the 300 or so there, after they surrendered without a fight because
>they were told they would be deported to the U.S., were marched
>to an open field and murdered.
			.
			.
			.
Your examples, and the battle for Chapultepec,
happened during different wars.  I don't think
it vitiates the point you're trying to communi-
cate, and expect that you're well aware of the
fact, but it might confuse some of your readers.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: IRISH: Easter Rising 1916??
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:45:08 GMT

c9119870@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (ANTIGONE) writes:
>Could any of you Irish History scholars fill me in with the
>particulars of the 1916 Easter Rising?

A very interesting, but futile, speculation on the significance of the
Uprising:

Just before WWI, Home Rule for Ireland was a very hot topic in the
British Parliament.  There was no "Northern Ireland" at this time,
politically: the island was one political subunit of the United
Kingdom, just as Glasgow and Edinburgh are both part of one Scotland.

However, the radical Protestants in the north of Ireland were adamantly
opposed to Home Rule: this would mean that the majority of their
legislative body would be composed of Catholics, a thing they could not
accept.  (In many ways, Ireland is the last home of 17th-century
relgious attitudes in Europe.)

The Protestants had even raised an army, and were ready to fight the
British army if Home Rule was passed in Parliament.  Before it could
come to a vote, however, there was an assassination at Saravejo, and
soon such issues were shelved because of WWI.

It is interesting to speculate what might have happened had there been
no Easter Uprising.  Consider: if there weren't an Uprising, the Irish
Catholics would probably not have been militant - at least not the vast
majority.  If, in 1919 or so, Parliament had then passed Home Rule, it
would have been the Protestants that would have rebelled.  You might
have had the British Army fighting the Protestant Army of the North,
with the Irish Catholics as bemused spectators, wondering which side to
support.

I feel this could have happened because of the Law of Polarity in human
nature: if someone takes an extreme position, it tends to push someone
else into the opposite extreme position.  (Look at Greeks, Turks,
Armenians - oops, sorry!)  The British, who probably were sympathetic
at the time with the Northern Irish Protestants, would nonetheless have
been pushed into a position of fighting them and trying to squelch
them.  Ireland might never have been divided into two parts (which
happened in the treaty of 1921, BTW).

As I said, pointless but interesting speculation.  I wonder if the
Easter Uprising did more harm than good to Irish Catholics in the long
run?

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: _Inside the Third Reich_ by Albert Speer
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:02:26 GMT


cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>L98CC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:

>>    _The rise and fall of the Third Reich_ also got generally negative
>>    reviews as well.  It seems to me that professional historians do not
>>    regard these two books very highly.  Why?

>Hmmm.  My modern European history professor thought Shirer's book was
>a reasonable source to use.

In a historiography class I took I chose Shirer as a historian about
whom to write a term paper. My professor was clearly not pleased with
my choice, and I gather the reason was that he considered Shirer to be
more of a reporter than a respected historian. I think if you read Shirer's
books, and TRAFOTTR in particular, it's true that the reportorial style
of the writing comes through loud and clear. However, as an eyewitness
to many of the events about which he wrote and as someone with an
insightful viewpoint, Shirer in my opinion is a good historical source.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 03:54:07 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac

In article <JMC.92Dec16115012@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>It would be informative to read a more recent audio letter of Dr. Beter.
>I'm sure he could explain what is really behind the apparent collapse of
>the Soviet Union.

He explains that in TAPE 221: The Dogfood Crisis, when it becomes clear that
a bassett hound under contract to Gaines secretly conspires with Jewish
interests who have taken over Ireland in order to create the _appearance_ of
collapse. Don't be taken in!

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
 Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
                 Information is power - get connected
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: vvirrank@cc.Helsinki.FI (Ville Virrankoski)
Subject: European economy AD350-1050??
Organization: University of Helsinki, Finland
X-Reader: GNUS 3.13
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:45:29 GMT


Could anyone prefer any books about economic collapse of western Rome
and rebuilding of early middle ages? Timeline about 350-1050.

Ville Virrankoski


Newsgroups: soc.history
From: glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt)
Subject: Cannibalism (was Re: Bronze in Native America)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:51:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.171411.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson) writes:
> Incidentally if anyone here will be spending time in Denver during the next
> couple of months, be sure to catch this exhibit. It is based on recent 
> excavations from the Templo Mayor in Mexico City, and will not travel - after
> February, the artifacts go back to Mexico. Yes, plenty of attention is given
> to the human sacrifices - there is a 1/10 scale model of the Temple which
> shows the blood stains where the bodies were rolled down the steps, as well 
> as actual sacrificial knives, etc.  - and to  the rigid social stratification
> in the society, although there was no mention of cannibalism - is the latter
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
> established fact, or conjecture?  The organizer of the exhibit  (and leader 
> of the archeological digs) is Eduardo Matos Moctezuma, a  descendant of 
> the Emperor who met Cortes.

That's established fact (or as much as a fact as historians get, I
guess).  For a good English source, see Inga Clendinnen's big book on
the Aztecs.  For that matter, it seems that many North American Indians
practiced cannibalism -- clearly the Algonkians, at least.  Always in
the context of war, I would add.

Gary
-- 
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
  ||    |    Gary| L. Hewitt|       |   ||  HELP!  I've been imprisoned
  || glh|ewitt@ph|oenix.prin|ceton.e|du ||  by my .signature!  HELP!
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Tammy Jo Eckhart)
Subject: Re: Rome and Slavery (was: Re: Robert's "Book")
Reply-To: tje3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Tammy Jo Eckhart)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:20:04 GMT

	The best book I've read which compares slavery in different cultures
and times is
	"Slavery and Social Death: A Comparative Study" by Orlando Patterson.
	According his calculations, the greatest percentage of slaves in the
population in the Roman Empire was 30-35%, while this percentage reached to
around 40% in the antebellum South.

Love and Peace,
	Tammy Jo

Newsgroups: soc.history