HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:42:47 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

why do women complain about the way they are treated by men when the
only persons to blame are themselves!
1.  women kept on & on about smoking, the right! to smoke.
    now they die of cancer about 2 to 1.
2.  women kept on & on about the right to vote!
    they have yet... to vote themselves in a woman president.
    (*note*  women out number men in population, 5 to 1)
3.  women kept complaining about being equal in the work place.
    they wanted more responsibility, more difficult jobs, have
    to be even with men in every way!   you say that is your right as
    a human being...   well i guess maybe it is but..................
    have you noticed that flower sales have gone way down?
    or maybe that special someone doesn't open doors for you
    anymore.  or you find yourself buying dinner for your date~~~~~
    and the worst part about the whole thing is that men are
    living longer and womens life expectancy has shortened
    considerably due to a much higher stress rate, living and
    dying in what is sais to be a mans world.

                                     something to consider *
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Sexism by another name(was: Right to not support)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:22:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug22.001915.15973@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>
>There *is* a fair amount of social pressure on men to at least act like they
>want to have sex all the time.  A lot of men who want to 'fit in' go along
>with it, I think.  I think the more macho or traditional types actually do
>feel this way, (or at least think they do - see more below).

Speaking from my own personal experience, I can think of several instances
when I did *not* act like I wanted to immediately have sex with a woman
but might have been able to "press the issue." I thought, "Oh, she'll
respect me more the next day!" or whatever. Wrong! She dumped me as soon
as she saw that!

On the other hand, when I did learn to "at least act" in the way that
Bronis describes, things went much more favorably.

We all learn from our mistakes.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:07:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Another right to not support?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: soc.women

	
kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes:

>If a man wants children, he should find the right mate and they should be
>in agreement on starting a family.

----------------------------

	Let's apply the acid test to this statement.........  in an
	equal society, one should be able to swap genders in any statement
	(or at LEAST find gender neutral terms) and have the statement
	still ring true...    

	Here goes....

-----------

	"If a woman wants children, she should find the right mate and
	they should be in agreement on starting a family."

----------- 
	
	O.K. I might agree, in principle, to this...  But is this where
	women would want to place responsibility for successful child raising?

	While it is easy to write the statement to place the responsibility
	on the man (as was originally written, I don't believe that
	women would appreciate that same type of overall responsibilty placed
	on them.  Actually though, it might make more sense... because for
	every marriage that has failed, there was always a woman that said
	"yes".

	Hmmmm...

	-Mike-



Newsgroups: soc.women
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:37:57 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <92232.46198.6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 
6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
> dearest joel,
> 
> i think you'd better check out the word "mysogyny" a bit closer
> as it's not found in: webster's ii  new riverside university
> dictionary nor is it found in the: seiko insterments  word power professional.
> but at least you gave it the ol collage try,,,boy.

I suppose that your ignorance is not surprising to anyone here.  At worst, joel
can be accused of a spelling error, but Webster's New World Dictionary, Third
Edition lists:

mi sog y ny (mi saj'e ne) n. hatred of women, esp. by a man.

Nice try... asshole.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
From: mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:50:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Better Late than Never
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:02:34

<Quoted from an article with no signature>
>    (*note*  women out number men in population, 5 to 1)

Am i right in guessing this means we're supposed to treat the
whole article as a joke? 

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway 

PS Women in Norway once kept on and on about the right to vote too.
Now we have a female prime minister, and since the head of the
leading opposition party is also a woman, our PM after the next 
election will also almost surely be a woman.  Is this situation
unique?
From: ng@MOE.OPTICS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Baldwin Ng)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: REQUEST from GIRLS:  List of 20 WORST/UNORIGINAL ways to ask a girl
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:55:43 GMT

IN REPONSE TO [shore@tc.cornell.edu]'s REPLY
It says:
>I think there are very few girls here, as the average
>age of an entering freshman is about 18.  I might also
>question the legality of men 18 years of age or older
>hitting on girls - I believe that this is considered to
>be contributing to the delinquency of a minor
>--
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu

Well, JUST TO CLARIFY : I GOT NO BAD INTENTION WHEN I ASK A GIRL OUT
                        SO, I AM NOT TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO HAVE SEX
                        WITH FRESHMAN GIRLS, OKAY??

Baldwin Ng (ng@moe.optics.rochester.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.culture.africa
From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 20 Aug 1992 17:38:43 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Previously:
|>|    (*note*  women out number men in population, 5 to 1)
|>
|>You've obviously got worse problems than just your mysogyny.

(or misogyny for the typo impaired)

Now, 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

|i think you'd better check out the word "mysogyny" a bit closer
|as it's not found in: webster's ii  new riverside university
|dictionary nor is it found in the: seiko insterments  word power professional.
|but at least you gave it the ol collage try,,,boy.

Yes.  Much worse.  And I'm not referring to your spelling.
From: dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:21:50 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX

dearest 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM,

I think you better check out the word "collage" a bit closer
as it's not found in: webster's ii  new riverside university
dictionary nor is it found in the: seiko insterments  word power professional.

Not with the meaning you intended, anyway.

J. H. Christ, spelling flames are stupid enough, but if you can't
even spell correctly in them, aren't you just a little too close to
the edge of the ridiculous?  What Joel's post was about was perfectly
clear.

Oh, yeah, by the way, just in case you *didn't* understand, I'll say
it slowly:  there . . . are . . . not . . . five . . . times . . . as . . .
many . . . women . . . as . . . men . . . in . . . the . . . world.

Daniel Welch

In article <92232.46198.6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>dearest joel,
>
>i think you'd better check out the word "mysogyny" a bit closer
>as it's not found in: webster's ii  new riverside university
>dictionary nor is it found in the: seiko insterments  word power professional.
>but at least you gave it the ol collage try,,,boy.
>
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Another right to not support?
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:54:33 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Murasami Labs

Janice Kendall wrote:

> 1) A man should be able to figuratively abort the fetus ONLY while the women
>    can legally, physically do so (so if abortion is contitutionally banned,
>    the man can no longer figuratively abort).  He must inform the woman in
>    some sort of legal document that he is doing so during this period so 
>    she will know that she is going it alone if she continues the pregnancy.  
>    The man then gives up all parental rights and responsibilities.  He can 
>    not change his mind later and interfere in the life and choices of the
>    woman.

This will require a notification of the man in question. Anyone care to
speculate how that will go over with the pro-choice crowd that was irrate
over notifying a *husband*? 

This is perhaps the most touchy area in this entire debate. A woman can
legally deprive a man of his children, and the children of their father,
if they decide to go it alone and not tell him.

K'Char
From: katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: GOOD movie for women
Date: 23 Aug 92 12:46:55 GMT
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX

In article <0q_n+6=.rfelix@netcom.com> rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>
>Last night I saw a movie called "Strangers in Good Company". It was a
>gentle movie about a small group of elderly women.

I haven't seen that, but another good one is _Enchanted April_ about
4 British women in the 1920s (strangers) who rent an Italian caslte
for a month's holiday. 

Vickie


"The people of Eastern europe got rid of their left wingers, it is
 time we in America got rid of our left wingers!"

            Pat Robertson, in a speech to the delegates of the
            1992 Republican National Convention

"There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America!"

            Pat Buchanan, in a speech to the delegates of the
            1992 Republican National Convention

Scary stuff...
Xref: sparky soc.women:15221 soc.men:14957 sci.bio:2924 sci.skeptic:14305
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.rape
Subject: Re: lioness method
Keywords: stop rapes
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:35:17 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Aug11.131917.18787@hobbes.kzoo.edu> tweaver@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Tim Weaver) writes:

>I think most of the rhetoric at the beginning was written with the intention
>of shocking complacent women into taking some action.  A curious form of
>patronization.

In this case I think it was matronisation :-)

-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: dsm40@mcode.amdahl.com (Diana St.Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:28:34 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation - Macrocode Development

In article <92232.29425.6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
> this sounds like a dame who never gets any.
> 

How eloquent!

Diana
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: ma@lloyd.Camex.COM (Mary Ann Purcell)
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:13:22 EDT

In article <stricher-200892103837@stayman.ocean.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>Melinda Shore wrote:
>
>> So, when I hear feminists being dismissed completely out-of-
>> hand as 'man-hating,' it does give me pause.  The same
>> thing with lesbians.  The article which started this thread was
>> apparently posted to demonstrate that feminists can  be
>> ignored because we're motivated by a hatred of men.  This
>> is patently ridiculous and demonstrably false, but dopes like 
>> 6069870 from Lockheed just eat it up.  Yes, it does bother
>> me quite a bit.  It's character assassination, and it's a
>> dandy mechanism for totally ignoring the issues that are
>> being raised.
>
>I should know better than this, but...
>
>It's not character assassination, it's one of the feminist
>chicken's coming home to roost. If feminism is to continue
>to have some meaning in this world, it will have to find
>a way of distancing itself from such people.
>
>That's the real issue being raised - will feminism become
>a doctrine of hate, or will it find the moral courage to
>stand up to the spreaders of hate?
>
>I for one have my doubts, but I encourage you to try.
>
>K'Char

Countinue to have meanning to who?  To men, women or both?  Frankly
I don't care if feminism has meanning to you.  It has meanning to
and for me wether some feminists hate men or not.  They are  not the
majority and they don't speak for me.  All groups have their fringe
extremests... The liberal democrats have have their Jerry Browns, the
conservitive republicans have their Pat Buchanans and the feminests have
their man haters. You can not look to the extremests to define the 
group they belong to. But that is what you are doing.  You are saying
"look at how the feminists think of men".   Where are the quotes from
the mainstream feminists?  How about me?  I think of myself as radical
and I don't hate men.  You can quote me.




Mary Anne Purcell
ma@camex.com     ...!uunet!camex!ma (I do not speak for Camex)


Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.veterans
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Sexual Harassment Reports Disturb VFW Chief
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:24:32 GMT

Here is a press release from  the Veterans of Foreign Wars
 Sexual Harassment Reports Disturb VFW Chief
 To: National Desk
 Contact: William G. Smith of the Veterans of Foreign Wars,
          202-543-2239

   WASHINGTON, Aug. 13 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Disturbed by reports
from women of sexual harassment within the Department of Veterans
Affairs (VA), the Commander-in-Chief of the Veterans of Foreign
Wars today urged the VA to examine its programs and policies to
better educate, surface and resolve sexual harassment complaints.
   Robert E. Wallace, leader of the 2.2-million member VFW said,
"I find such reports alarming, particularly in light of the VFW's
concerted effort to gain greater access and care for female
veterans within the VA system. Today there are 1.3 million
female veterans and that number continues to grow with greater
opportunities for women in military service. These reports of
sexual harassment within the very system that they depend
upon for health care undermines their confidence in the VA and
is a real disservice to all female veterans.
   "Secretary of Veterans Affairs Edward Derwinski's crackdown
on cases of sexual harassment are encouraging; however, these
latest incidents, in an agency second in size to the Department
of Defense in the number of employees and an agency comprised of
56 percent women employees, are cause for concern.
   "I urge the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to use the resources
at hand and take whatever action is necessary to ensure that
responsive programs are in place to prevent and deal with sexual
harassment," concluded Wallace.
-0-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: ng@moe.optics.rochester.edu (Baldwin Ng)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: TESTING....PLEASE IGNORE!!! (ng@moe)
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:51:14 GMT

TESTING.....Pnews via email to ucbvax.berkeley.edu!
PLEASE IGNORE!!!

B. Ng (ng@moe.optics.rochester.edu)
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:45:08 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Murasami Labs

Melinda Shore wrote:

> So, when I hear feminists being dismissed completely out-of-
> hand as 'man-hating,' it does give me pause.  The same
> thing with lesbians.  The article which started this thread was
> apparently posted to demonstrate that feminists can  be
> ignored because we're motivated by a hatred of men.  This
> is patently ridiculous and demonstrably false, but dopes like 
> 6069870 from Lockheed just eat it up.  Yes, it does bother
> me quite a bit.  It's character assassination, and it's a
> dandy mechanism for totally ignoring the issues that are
> being raised.

I should know better than this, but...

It's not character assassination, it's one of the feminist
chicken's coming home to roost. If feminism is to continue
to have some meaning in this world, it will have to find
a way of distancing itself from such people.

That's the real issue being raised - will feminism become
a doctrine of hate, or will it find the moral courage to
stand up to the spreaders of hate?

I for one have my doubts, but I encourage you to try.

K'Char
From: linda@wendy.net.com (Linda Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Sexism by another name(was: Right to not support)
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:41:44 GMT
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies

In article <stricher-190892175156@stayman.ocean.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>Linda Hill [writes]
>
>> My husband thinks this attitude is appalling (especially coming from an avowed
>> feminist) because it places no responsibility whatsoever on the man.  The man
>> is free to hop in and out of the sack willy nilly without a care in the world.
>> I think that this is pretty much the way of the wild and that the human 
>> species
>> will never be so evolved that the majority of males can intelligently control
>                                   
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> their sex drives.  Therefore it is up to the female of the species, as it has
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Please explain to me why you shouldn't be royally flamed for a rather
>egregiously sexist remark. Do you have data to support this? Have there
>been studies carried to *prove* that this is so?

Well I knew that remark was flamebait, but I thought I would express how my
culture has taught me to view men.  Most of what I've learned about men _in
general_ through reading and listening to the way men talk is that given any
opportunity a man will have sex with any woman.  I guess I really believe the
idea that sex is a physical act for men and an emotional act for women (again
not _all_ men and not _all_ women).  I believe that men are indiscriminate
where sex is concerned and that women are generally choosier about who they
decide to sleep with.  This is the message I'm receiving from the world I live
in.  I haven't met enough men who think differently to refute the stereotype
(or is all their talk about what they'd like to do with pratically every woman
they meet just a lot of hot air?).  I _really_ have been given the impression
that most of what men want to have to do with women is have sex with them, and
that anything else that might develop comes secondarily.

All the stories I hear from women are of having to fend off men trying to get
them in bed soon after meeting them, and the men talk about "getting to third
base" like it's a major goal in life.  Is it all a bunch of media hype, or
what?

linda@net.com
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Subject: Re: lioness method
Keywords: stop rapes
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:30:18 GMT

In <1992Aug11.063000.22635@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:

>[rape "shattering" women]

>I, too, found this phrase disturbing, and the whole tone of the post, as well.
>While I agree completely with the idea that anyone being physically, violently
>attacked should use *any* means at their disposal to protect themselves, I
>couldn't help but feel that that somehow wasn't the underlying message.  The
>author's rhetoric sounded suspiciously like some pro-life or gun-nut diatribe,
>written more to create fear and hatred, to shock, and to pronounce, than to be

The article discusses stopping a violent attack, of course the article
is shocking and brutal. 

>kind.  The writer seem to be simultaneously promulgating the idea that women
>are weak, and preparing to blame them for allowing themselves to be attacked.

Where the hell did you get that from! It says that the idea that women
are weak and defenseless is wrong, and shows how to prevent/stop
attacks. There is no "blaming the victim" there, it is all "how not
to be a victim".

-- 
Greg Booth BSc                        | Diligentia-Vis-Celeritas
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS    |  	Incolumitas
Motorola Mobile Data Division         | 
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: 6069870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Hating Men with Full Force
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 15:11:02 GMT

this sounds like a dame who never gets any.









------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Hating Men with Full Force
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 22:09:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

A few brief quotes from Houston _Chronicle_ reporter Jacsun Shah, as
reported in the Jan., 1992 issue of "Liberty" magazine, p. 78:

   "Yes, I am a man hater, yes, I am a feminist. and why not?
    Women are dying . They die every day, at the hands of men.
    Men ... beat them, rape them, dismember them. Hell yes, I
    hate men ... To all of you women out there, I say _hate_.
    You have every right to ... I knew the kindest thing I could
    do for the women of this world is to hate men with full force."

(entered exactly as published in Liberty).


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"