HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Am. Masses
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:54:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.141203.22931@cbnews.cb.att.com> ran@cbnews.cb.att.com (Robert A. Neinast) writes:
>In article <168578842.KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com>, KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
>> There is a new book out by Lester Thurow, who is dean of the Sloan School
>> at MIT.

>> E.g. he says we should lengthen the school day by about 2 hours, and lengthen
>> the school year from 180 days to 210 days.  This would put us at par with
>> the rest of the industrialized world.

>Since so much of the current time spent in school is so much crap
>(severely watered-down, busy-work, discipline problems, etc.),
>what makes him (or you, for that matter) think that adding more
>time of doing the same will do any good?  How about making the
>time currently in school more productive before we decide that
>we need more of it?

One of the things the U.S. needs is more confidence in it's ability to succeed.
Just what exactly are the other "industrialized" countries doing that makes 
them so superior?  The Japanese make products that were invented in the U.S.
This doesn't make them a superior people.  They loan their companies huge
amounts of money at low interest rates which enables them to compete with
countries which charge higher rates.  One reason the U.S. has less savings is
that we spent a lot of it on the "baby boomers".  Right after WW II (which the
U.S. produced most of the armament for) the U.S. grew by almost 100 million
people (most of it children born in that period).  Japan, on the other hand,
has not grown and they thus have more money to save.  They don't allow
immigrants to the extent the U.S. does.

Presently the U.S. is one of the most diverse cultural countries (by the
2lst century, we will be a minority country).  

After WWII, we had a very productive country and loaned (or gave away)
billions to other countries.  Then cheap imports such as Japanese cars and
steel as well as clothing and TV sets (which the U.S. invented) undermined
the U.S. economy.  If we stopped supporting the rest of the world, we would
have more money for ourselves.

Charlie
From: KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Stupidity of Am. Masses
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:11:41 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

There was an article on the front page of the Detroit-area newspaper about
how Al Taubman is getting involved in improving education in the U.S.  For
those of you who have no idea who AT is, he's a local billionaire (yes,
that's a 'b') who owns the A&W rootbeer/food chain, among his lesser assets.
Anyway, it seems that some time ago he decided to offer 1/3 pound hamburgers
at a price only slightly above McDonalds' 1/4#er, thinking that people would
see the obvious value.  NOT!!  The 1/3 pounder was a huge failure, so Taubman
hired some analysts to find out why.  It seems that J.Q. Public thought that
the 1/3 pound burgers were SMALLER than the 1/4 pounders...after all, 3 is
smaller than 4.  (I'm not making this up.)  When I first read this I had
to laugh loud and long--until the depression set in.  Now I'm sickened.
I'll bet that most Americans think it's out of the realm of possibility that
the U.S. would break up as did the FSU (Former Soviet Union).  I'm not so
sure.  We've got some MAJOR problems that our Great Leaders won't even
admit in public.
-Kurt
From: cubsfan@cultnet.ch (wrobel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: list of words in American and British Englis
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 12:50:04 GMT
Organization: CULTNET Communication Systems for Art & Science

I am American teaching English out of an English book.  The differences 
are many and varied.  My favorite (favourite) was "thumb tack" (Amer.), 
which in England is "drawing pin".  There are also the following:  the 
last letter of the alphabet (zed vs.zee), defence vs. defense, lorry vs. 
truck, etc.  Trying to decipher the British meanings, I have had to 
resort to a foreign dictionary, which usually notes the distinction. (in 
my case, I used Italian-English dictionary).

.......................................................................
Internet: cubsfan@cultnet.ch
CULTNET (SWITZERLAND) E.V.
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS FOR ART AND SCIENCE
.......................................................................
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,alt.conspiracy
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Kulturkampf
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:06:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.212535.12196@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.225227.21991@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
>>Don't tell me about how little money we're talking about.  If it
>>really was an insignificant amount of money, it wouldn't matter that
>>Helms is trying to redirect it and it wouldn't be worth protecting.
>>It isn't the principle, it's the money.
>     Sorry to say this, but you're wrong.  It is NOT the money.
>     Think:  If it was indeed the $$$, then how do you explain the constant
>free-speechers defense of such rotten expressions of free speech such as 2
>Live Crew and BodyCount??

Keep up with the discussion.  We're discussing the NEA as part of a
discussion of the use of force to push particular cultures.  That came
up when I pointed out that "liberal's" object only when they don't
like the culture being pushed or the people doing the pushing.  That
discussion really has very little to do with free speech. 2 Live Crew
and BodyCount don't come into that discussion because they aren't
forced on anyone.

>     It's more power than anything.  Either way, the NEA is supporting
>someone's culture, just whose culture will it support is what's being argued.

Precisely.  "Liberals" don't object to forcing culture, they object to
Helms forcing culture.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Please, Jyrki! (was: Political terminology in USA)
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:44:42 GMT
Organization: Boston University Chemistry Department

In article <85@byu.edu> gritton@byu.edu writes:

>   What is your motive in polluting this group with this constant
>stream of reposts? You're doing your part to destroy any chance
>soc.culture.usa has of becoming a culture group.

>   Please, how about some consideration for both the original authors
>and the readers? 

WhUseless, there won't be any. Use a kill file.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Ryan: What is it to you, demon?       //// Sergei Shimkevich             //
// Lune: It is Sir, Demon to you, worm!  //// shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu        //
// -Phantasy Star III                    ////                               // 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Am. Masses
Reply-To: suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:30:40 GMT

>>>>> On 1 Sep 92 16:47:11 EST, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) said:

> 	When buying something, I usually give enough pennies along with my
> bills to get non-penny change back.  This confuses the heck out of cashiers,
> who seem unable to grasp the concept of $2.37 price, $5.02 received and the
> change is...I've gotten everything from $3.75 to $2.25.

Here in Finland we have cash registers which tell how much change you get
back. The cashier enters the sum of money you give and the cash
register tells the change. Aren't such cash registers common in the US? 
Or are you still using abacuses? :)

-Heikki
--
pulchra enim sunt ubera quae paululum supereminent et tument modice
nec fluitantia licenter sed leniter restricta repressa sed non depressa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.europe
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Am. Masses
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:53:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep2.185349.12204
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

original text
__________________________________________________________________________

>	Amazingly enough, it is possible to graduate from high school having
>taken no math beyond algebra.
>
>	IMnotsoHO, algebra should be the minimum for getting out of middle
>school (8th grade).  Most kids should have geometry, if not some trig by then.
>
>	However, as long as groups like the NEA measure their success by the
>*volume* of graduates, we're in deep do-do.
>
>	It's like grading programmers by the volume of code they produce.
>
>Brett                                                      
>_______________________________________________________________________________


For those interested in education in America, I would highly recommend
an online newsletter called The Daily Report Card.  This newsletter
collects articles on education from all over the country.  It's a
real eye opener!  To subscribe, send an e-mail message to 

listserv@gwuvm.gwu.edu

In the message field simply type:

sub rptcrd your_full_name


-Carol
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:6962 soc.culture.japan:7430
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Minolta CEO attacks US Second Amendment (American guns)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:47:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.usa
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <17i45tINNjgs@agate.berkeley.edu> tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
<Sam Kusumoto, chairman and CEO of Minolta Corporation is quoted
<in  _The Clarion-Ledger_ of Jackson, Miss., as follows,
<according to a story by Dan Davis:

<     "We don't know why the American government still
<      permits people to possess a gun. The country that
<      teaches Western civilization to Japanese still
<      permits people to carry guns. This we do not
<      understand."
.....
>He may not have understood that American democracy is based on
>the idea that a democratic society cannot exist if the average
>citizen does not have the right to own state-of-the art weapons,
>along with the right to free speech (so the masses have access to
>both the information and the force necessary to resist tyranny).

   It might be true that carrying guns is not contradictory to American
democracy. However, if it's true that the US taught American democracy
to Japanese after WWII, and if gun possession is the essential part of the 
democracy, I wonder why the US didn't try to make a system that allows
Japanese citizens to carry weapons. Wouldn't it be possible that the
concept that a handgun is a tool for democracy was already anachronistic? 

>Perhaps he equates civilization with taming the human spirit (for
>the benefit of large organizations) rather than freedom (releasing
>the human spirit from the control of large organizations, the key
>idea underlying western civilization since ancient Greece.) Most 
>Asiatic societies stress conformity rather than freedom.

   It's ironical that many Americans have realized what this "freedom"
caused and are striving for the gun control by stressing comformity.

   Judging from his personal history and career that even made some 
Americans believe that Minolta is an American company (that's what I
heard), I think that Sam Kusumoto is one of the Japanese who understand 
the American way most. I doubt that he made that statement out of ignorance.
His words might have sounded differently if they had come out of American's
mouth.

Michiaki Masuda

P.S. Please note that I edited the newsgroup because I cannot post to 
     talk.politics.guns from this site.
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Themata pou proekiyan apo ti sizitisi peri "Meko200".
Date: 27 Aug 92 05:09:31 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia
Originator: jd@latcs2.lat.oz.au


	O (Alex Gerbessiotis)
	  (alex@endor.harvard.edu) grafei:
	
>	H empeiria alla idiaitera o kairos sto Aigaio kata toys xeimerinoys
>	mhnes poy den exei se tipote na zhlespei Atlantiko vkeano, deijan

	Profanos den yereis apo okeanous, giati sigritika to aigaio einai limni
	epipleon auto pou diaferi se nautikes epixirisis eivai i apostasis kai
	oxi to iyos twn kimatwn. Me alla logia i ektasi pou prepei va kaliyi
	to plio me ta radar/sonar kai opla tou, kai o xronos makria apo limani.
		Kai o logos pou i "Kontenear" einai kales gia tin ellada einai
	i timi tous, giati apo ikanotita einai perpou isayies me tis "Meco200",
	ean to megalitero megethos simene kai megalitero costos gia amfiboli
	epipleon ikanotita tote tha itan problimatiki i agora. 

>	An kai den einai toses polles oses ua prepe na nai exoyn ena
>	megalo pleonekthma se sxesh me tis irakines, to megeuos toy
>	Aigaiou alla kai ta polla nhsia, kaue nhsi apotelei kai katafygio,
>	poy kauistoyn ton entopismo toy dyskolo. H antiaeroporikh
>	prostasia ua mporoyse na antimetvpistei sxetika fthna me
>	pauhtika metra prostasias alla kai forhtoys SAM.

	Tote giati xriazonte kan i piraulakatoi otan ta nisia mporoun na
	exoplistoun me puraulous kai anti-aeroporikous kai anti-pliwn, kai
	me elikoptera pou mporoun na feroun kai puraulous evation pliwn kai
	xrisimeuoun gia anthipobrixiaki drasi ?

> 	Mia allh eukairia poy xauhke hta h prosfora ths Northrop gia
>  	oloklhrvtikh kataskeyh sthn Ellada toy tote prvtotypoy F-20Tigershark.

	Oxi ashimi idea to F-20 gia antikatastasi twn F-5 kai F-104 sto rolo
	ipostirixis (CAS - close air suport) opou den a3izei na riskaris 
	akriba aeroplana.
From: dranidis@informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Dimitris Dranidis)
Subject: REQUEST: Greek Gods
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:22:21 GMT

Hello,

Maybe with the whole discussion for Macedonia I'm far away from thema, but...

We are giving our workstations names from the 12 Greek Gods of mythology. I  
remember only 11 of them:

Zeus, Hera, Athena, 
Poseidon, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, 
Ares, Apollo, Hermes, 
Demeter, Artemis

Can someone remind me the 12th?

Dimitris
From: cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Greek Gods
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:27:56 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <Btz52C.CLK@acsu.buffalo.edu>, by v095qhyg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (CONSTANTINOS I. ORFANOS):
> In article <16856EC4C.TSAKETO@cms.cc.wayne.edu>, TSAKETO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes...
>>In article <1992Sep2.192221.5413@news.lrz-muenchen.de>
>>dranidis@informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Dimitris Dranidis) writes:
>>>We are giving our workstations names from the 12 Greek Gods of mythology. I
>>>remember only 11 of them:
>>>
>>>Zeus, Hera, Athena,
>>>Poseidon, Aphrodite, Hephaestus,
>>>Ares, Apollo, Hermes,
>>>Demeter, Artemis
>>>Can someone remind me the 12th?
>>>Dimitris
>> 
>>I think it is the godess Estia.
>>                 Tony.
> 
>       I believe it is Hades, the god of the underworld and one of Zeus's 
>  brothers (the other is Poseidon) who help overthrow Cronos and made these
>  gods the rulers.


The most usual list has Hestia as number twelve. She was the goddess of
hearth and home, and so a rather passive figure, and from time to time
people seem to have thought that she didn't really earn her place, and
put someone else in instead.

So far as I know, Hades is one of the twelve only in the list in Plato's
Phaedrus (and perhaps, by implication, in the Laws), 
and there Plato makes it quite clear that HE has made the
decision to leave Hestia out. I think Hades does not figure in the
normal lists because they are the twelve OLYMPIAN gods, and Hades does
not normally come to Olympus (though Poseidon does).

Sometimes you get Dionysus instead of Hestia. He is a rather aberrant
god anyway (either because he was a late-comer to Greek religion or for
some other reason) - in any case he doesn't normally appear in the list.

There is some evidence that there was a local tradition at Olympia which
substituted Kronos, Rhea, and Alpheios (the local river god) for
Hephaistos, Demeter, and Hestia, and there are other cases of the
insertion of local gods into the list in particular localities,
presumably out of local patriotism.

Mostly, they referred to them simply as 'the twelve', no doubt leaving
it open to each individual to write in his own list!

Richard Wallace 
From: kk@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Konstantinos Konstantinides)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:19:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Rebetica music (was: Common words in Greek and Turkish)
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek

In soc.culture.greek, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) wrote:
> > I even think -- dare I say it? -- that the various Turkish elements
> > still to be found in everyday Greek life (coffee, certain types of food
> > and traditional dress, musical influences) are among the things that
> > make Greek popular culture as fascinating and rich as it is.  There's
> > no reason why Greeks should feel embarrassed about this aspect of their
> > culture -- especially since Greeks have a way of transforming Turkish
> > influences into something uniquely their own.  Music provides a good
> > example.  Rebetica music, especially the earlier, Anatolian-flavored
> > style, is very clearly Turkish influenced, and yet no one could mistake
> > it for anything other than Greek music. 
> 
> Can you (or anybody else) recommend some performers to look out for in this
> genre?  This is what Yiorgos Mangas plays, right?  (furiously energetic and
> raunchy dance music).
> 
An excellent record is "REMBETICA" by Rounder Records (CD 1079)
(One Camp Str., Cambridge, Mass 02140)

This is an excellent collection of 20 rebetica songs.
I got my copy from Tower Records.

K. Konstantinides
From: vagelis@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Vagelis Vassiliadis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: soc.CULTURE.greek
Keywords: Same as before.
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:28:40 GMT
Reply-To: vagelis@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Vagelis Vassiliadis)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland


... well nothing more far from true. In fact reading this newsgroup,
one can learn a hell of a lot about Greece. For example:

	GREEK HISTORY
  
   o Greece was conquered by the Macedonian king Alexander the Great.
     some time B.C.
   o Then, the Greek king Alexander the Great ( became Greek after the 
     conquer ) went on to set up a great empire by slaughtering all 
     nations in middle-east.

   o Centuries later, the Greeks again were the subjects of another
     genocide, against the Ottomans (sp?) this time establishing in this
     way a new Greek state.
   
   o But it was very small. And more important, Greeks wanted to take 
      revenge for whatever Alexander did. So they initiated a furious 
     attack against the Macedonians living - where else? - in Macedonia.
   
   o This time they succeeded. They killed many Macedonians and throw the 
     rest out of the place. Still there was a problem: the new land was empty.
     So they invited almost 1.5 million Greeks who were living at that time
     in Turkey to come and take the place in Macedonia. And they did come.
     They were so patriots that they could not resist the will to serve their
     country. Nobody said : I have my job and my house here in Turkey. 
     They ALL came to Macedonia.

   o Still another problem. In mid thirties some new Macedonians appeared
     (nobody knows how) in the -Greek now- Macedonia. Greeks were more
     civilised this time. They didn't kill the Macedonians. They just named
them 
     Greeks and they forced them to believe they are Greeks using the more 
     effective program of ethnic brainwashing the world has seen so far.
   
   ......... the rest are not history yet.


Vagelis Vassiliadis
From: tsatsaro@emily4.Berkeley.EDU (Konstantinos Tsatsaronis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Greek Gods
Date: 3 Sep 1992 02:01:15 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: emily4.berkeley.edu

The 12th goddess is Estia the goddess of household.  I am sorry but 
I do not remember what is the relationship between her and other 
gods of Olympus.
From: rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: 3rd September 1843 (was Re: Independent S-M...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:44:46 GMT

Yannis Schoinas (schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu) writes:

>Right from the start of the creation of the Greek state, the Vlachs 
>have contributed to this state in every aspect of the social life.

Indeed. Just in case I remember the Vlach politician Ioannis Koletis,
one of the first prime ministers of Greece and a leading figure of the 
revolutionaries who exactly before 149 years forced the king to accept
the formulation of a Constitution...

--r.
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: GREEK ILINK CONFERENCE
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:58:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 

The following is posted at the request of Evangelos Rigos, moderator of
the GREEK conference on the ILINK network. If you have access to the
ILINK network, give GREEK a try.

                  ********  Greek Ilink Conference ***********

           The Greek conference is a forum for people who have
           an interest discussing subjects related with ancient
           and modern Greece.

           In particular, we invite deliberations on topics
           related with ancient and modern Greek culture, ancient
           and modern history, classical and modern language,
           tourism, current political events etc.

           In general any subject related with Greece is welcome
           in this conference.


                      Evangelos N. Rigos - The Moderator


Rigos
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael.
               
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Themata pou proekiyan apo ti sizitisi peri "Meko200".
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:10:37 GMT

jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:

>	O (Alex Gerbessiotis)
>	  (alex@endor.harvard.edu) grafei:
>	
>>	An kai den einai toses polles oses ua prepe na nai exoyn ena
>>	megalo pleonekthma se sxesh me tis irakines, to megeuos toy
>>	Aigaiou alla kai ta polla nhsia, kaue nhsi apotelei kai katafygio,
>>	poy kauistoyn ton entopismo toy dyskolo. H antiaeroporikh
>>	prostasia ua mporoyse na antimetvpistei sxetika fthna me
>>	pauhtika metra prostasias alla kai forhtoys SAM.

>	Tote giati xriazonte kan i piraulakatoi otan ta nisia mporoun na
>	exoplistoun me puraulous kai anti-aeroporikous kai anti-pliwn, kai
>	me elikoptera pou mporoun na feroun kai puraulous evation pliwn kai
>	xrisimeuoun gia anthipobrixiaki drasi ?

	Mia oloklhromenh amyna xreiazetai ta panta.  Ean p.x. h ellada den
	exei pyravlakatous, kai exei mono pyraulous edafous/epifaneias sthn
	Lymno, kai kataferoun oi Turkoi na tous katastrepsoun, tote 0a
	prepei na ksegrapsoume thn lymno.


-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8175 soc.culture.bulgaria:1247 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8311