HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: High volume newsgroups
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:12:31 GMT
Distribution: bionet

>    What is the procedure for creating a bionet group, anyway? I mean the
> correct social procedures, I know the technical details about creating
> groups.


Newsgroup Creation Policy
-------------------------

Proposals for new groups must contain a statement of purpose for the
group and the name of a person designated as discussion leader unless
the group is in the service category such as METHODS, EMPLOYMENT, etc.
Discussion leaders are responsible for ensuring that a reasonable
level of activity is sustained on the newsgroup (see Newsgroup
Termination Policy below).  The discussion leader can also propose the
creation of moderated newsgroups if he/she agrees to serve as
moderator (this requires access to USENET news software at the
moderator's site).  Proposals should be sent to
biosci@genbank.bio.net.

When a proposal is received it will be posted on
BIONEWS/bionet.announce.  A ten day period for discussion on
BIOFORUM/bionet.general will follow and precede the call for votes.
After the discussion, the person proposing the newsgroup may modify or
withdraw the proposal prior to the call for votes.  The modified
proposal will then be included in a call for votes on
BIONEWS/bionet.announce.  The proposal must collect 80 YES votes in 30
days and the number of YES votes must exceed the number of NO votes by
at least 40 to pass.

BIOSCI management must be informed in advance of any intended efforts
to advertise the newsgroup proposal in other forums.  While BIOSCI
wishes to inform potential users of the creation of newsgroups that
might be of interest to them, promotional efforts should be focussed
in forums likely to be utilized by professionals in the subject area
covered by the newsgroup proposal, and should seek participation in
the discussion of the proposal within bionet.general/BIOFORUM rather
than promoting separate discussions in other forums to which portions
of the BIOSCI readership may not have ready access.

If a proposal is not passed by the readers, there will be a three
month period before it can be brought up for another vote.


Newsgroup Termination Policy
----------------------------

Any group with less than 52 msgs in the previous calendar year will be
put on notice by posting an announcement to the newsgroup (not to
bionet.announce) that it faces cancellation.  It can be reprieved if
80 readers respond within two weeks (this policy will be stated in the
termination announcement).  It then has two months to reach a usage
level of one message per 3 days or else it will be abolished.  Appeals
to the BIOSCI management about high content albeit low volume on the
group will be considered.
Newsgroups: bionet.general
From: francis@monod.Biol.McGill.CA (Francis Ouellette)
Subject: Re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups?
Organization: McGill University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 04:30:23 GMT

steffen@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (David Steffen) writes:


>  In my mind, at least, the bionet hierarchy of newsgroups passed a
>watershed today.  Between when I went home last night and when I came
>in today, there were 22 new messages posted on
>bionet.molbio.methods-reagents; I now declare this a high volume

sorry David, but I don't think that this represents "high volume"

[stuff removed to save band-with of this high volume group ;-]

>  I think a problem with the newsgroup paradyme which afflicts some of
>the most potentially useful groups (e.g.
>bionet.molbio.methods-reagents; comp.sys.mac.*; etc.) is that many
					  ^^^
					  you probably meant "unix"
					  here?  ;-)

[more removed, for the same resons]

>  How could this be implemented?  It could be implemented today with a
>fair amount of manual intervention.  Regional groups (e.g. Houston,
>Boston, New York, etc.) would be defined and the newsgroup software
>would be set up in these regions with local posting as the default.

and Edward Vielmetti (emv@msen.com) makes another suggestion: 

> the rules there (and in some other -managers groups) is that there is
> no discussion allowed in the group.  Rather, the presenter of a question
> is obligated to say
> 	Send me your answers, I will summarize for the group
> and then to post an answer (with proper credits) with the word SUMMARY: as
> the start of the subject line.  This lets the casual reader read just the
> condensed summaries of problems, puts the burden on the questioner to act
> also as editor, and increases the number of questions and answers that can
> be sent through the list.
> 
> It's more work but you get better results.

I would like to second Edwards propositin, with the note that a
SUMMARY should be a _real_ summary, not just a "cat" of all the
replies.  I think these "summaries" will be a good starting point for
whenever (I did not say "if ever"!) the FAQs for the different groups
are made.  The beauty of Edwards proposal is that Edward, myself or
nyone could do it right now, and it would (could!?) work, without any
change in the rules ... just a properly appended note "please send me
your replies, I will summarize to the group"

I like it!

regards,

francis



--
| B.F. Francis Ouellette  
| manager, yeast chromosome I project
| dept of biology, McGill university, Montreal, Qc, Canada
| francis@monod.biol.mcgill.ca
Newsgroups: bionet.general
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups?
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Distribution: bionet
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:05:35 GMT

In article <CMM.0.90.2.711920690.kristoff@genbank.bio.net> kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson) writes:
>
>
>	Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that one can currently
>limit the distribution of messages simply by using the "distribution"
>feature in news software.  For example I have the following options
>here:
>
    The problem is that (I think) it is generally believed that distributions
are not really very efficient. On news.admin, you often hear this complaint.
There are many leaks. We even had some articles for University of Colorado
appearing in cu.general here at Columbia.
    I think the real problem is that limiting the distribution is a waste
of time unless you are _certain_ that your question has a local answer. On
those few occasions when I've posted here with questions, the best answers
have come from non-local areas. The only time I limit my distribution is
if the question is very trivial, or of local interest.

>
>Another possibility that we could entertain would be to split up
>METHODS into a few subsets if anyone thinks that the time has come for
>this.
>
    A much better idea. I predict that bionet readership will be going way
up in the next few years. Biologists are underrepresented as users, especially
considering what computers and network communication can do for a biologist.
More and more of the students and faculty here are getting interested in
databases, and e-mail communication, and bionet. I predict that bionet
volume will grow faster than usenet(anybody got any stats?)

   Isn't bionet.genbank.updates (or something like that) one of the highest
volume groups?

DanZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: dsilver@garnet.berkeley.edu (Daniel H. Silver)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Venter Deal: Comments?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:24:45 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: dsilver@garnet.berkeley.edu

A friend of mine wrote me the following:

"I would be interested in seeing if anyone on the net has a 
comment about Craig Venter's deal. 
He is the scientist at the National Institutes of Health 
who discovered a way to produce thousands of DNA lookalike 
fragments, purged of all the noncoding, presumably nonsense 
segments.  They're call cDNA, for complementary DNA, and 
he may have found a way to shortcut the massive Human Genome 
Project. Two difficulties, at least: 1--NIH has filed for 
patents--on human DNA! And we're talking thousands of genes, 
whose function he doesn't pretend to know at this point.  
2--He's leaving NIH, to join a new foundation set up just for 
him by a venture capital firm called Health Care Investors of Boston, 
which is also setting up a company for the project.  
There was an argument that at least these patents would belong to 
the federal government, which might be assumed to act in the best
interests of (U.S., rich) humanity, but now that Venter has
"sold out" to a private firm, any future genes he discovers
via this method, will be available only to this company...Of
course, the patents have only just been FILED for, and no
one knows whether they will be granted. The usual obstacle
suggested is that he doesn't know the use of his cDNA
pieces, since he doesn't know the function of the gene they
represent. However, they're perfectly useful as is as probes
and research tools, and besides, he/NIH can always add new
uses later in the patent process."  

Any comments?  E-mail or posted replies are fine.
Also appreciated would be any suggestions for cross-posting.

 
Daniel H. Silver                                      "Memory is a kind
Department of Psychology, UCB         of accomplishment,
dsilver@garnet.berkeley.edu                    a sort of renewal . . ."
Disclaimer: me not ucb                 ((((((((((((((((*)))))))))))))))) 
Newsgroups: bionet.general
From: robert@arbo.microbiol.uwa.oz.au (Robert Coelen, Microbiology, UWA)
Subject: re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups - Part II.
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:51:37 GMT

In article <Jul.27.11.35.34.1992.9289@genbank.bio.net> kristoff@genbank.bio.net (David Kristofferson) writes:
>> I do not believe the traffic on METHODS currently warrants such partitioning.
>
>I tend to agree with Alan on this one.  We haven't had any rush to
>unsubscribe from the METHODS e-mail list at GenBank.  This is usually
>a reliable indicator of discontent with a group.


And YES, whilst I indicated that PCR could be split from Methds&Reagnts, I find
the current volume not a problem. Threading one's way through this section
is fairly quick. I think that reading the news once a day should just become
a ritual, just like checking your mail ---> current volume OK !

Robert
From: robison1@husc10.harvard.edu (Keith Robison)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups - Part II.
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:51:21 GMT


	It just occurred to me that another (admittedly somewhat far-out)
approach to the problem David S. has mentioned would be an auto-FAQ
system.  A computer would serve as the "moderator" for the newsgroup.
For each new article (as opposed to follow-ups), a similarity search 
would be run between the posting and the FAQ list and the last n
months of posting. If any hits occurred, the system would return
the posting(s) or FAQ(s) to the sender instead of posting the article.
Additionally, any posting receiving a large number of hits would 
automatically be added to the FAQ (for later human editing, hopefully).


	Whadda ya think?  A good idea, or have I been looking at too
much BLAST output for my own good?



Keith Robison
Harvard University
Program in Biochemistry, Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology

robison@ribo.harvard.edu
From: gchacko@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (George W Chacko)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups - Part II.
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:05:44 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <CMM.0.90.2.712524628.kristoff@genbank.bio.net> kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson) writes:

>The other possible volume control is to moderate groups that get "too
>many" postings.  At the simplest level, this could be done only to
>filter out multiple replies containing the same information.  I would
>also be interested in the future if specialists in a particular field
>would actually be interested in editorial roles for specialty
>newsgroups.  BIOSCI/bionet can retain its open character on many
>newsgroups while having a filter on others.

I would imagine that this would be unproductive in many ways. The only
way to be sure that multiple replies contain exactly the same
information is to screen them manually. A lot of work when fifteen
people follow up just to say, "Try pUC 19." ;-)

One way, as mentioned earlier by roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu, is to have
the news software configured to send mail messages that can then be
passed through a customised filter. This is a little complex but
leaves the choice to the reader. The alternative is to get on to
Dave's mailing lists and let your filter do the rest but information
transfer becomes a lot slower that way.

I use procmail and have played around unhappily with rmail-triage in
emacs and there must be other filters available.

George
From: rybicki@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: politix on the net
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:45:20 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Jul17.172459.20601@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown) writes:
> You are pretty silly if you don't think that the level of science funding in
> the US will directly impact your work, be it in Germany, Canada, or New Guinea.
> Genbank is funded by the US govt., no?

But EMBL and DDBJ aren't...face it, we foreigners are not interested in your
partisanship/chauvinism 8-)

[deleted] 

> And I'd imagine that the level of US participation in international programs
> like the Human Genome Program might also be of interest?
> I just don't see how having a certain job, or posting to a certain
> forum should reduce one's rights of free expression.
 				Disclaimer?? Sure: "That Disc is Mine!"

No-one is US-bashing - but there are specific newsgroups for this, and this
ain't one of them.  Try being seriously religious in rec.humo(u)r, for example
- not in good taste.  Nor is it here.

Ed Rybicki
From: uram@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Need address help
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:31:04 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Help!  I want to contact a colleague who recently moved
to Queen's University, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Can
anyone provide me with the correct node address? I believe
he's now in the Biochem or Biology dept, but am still waiting
to hear from him to find out exactly where he ended up.

THANKS for your help...

U. Ramsey
Dept. of Biology
Dalhousie University
Nova Scotia, CANADA
From: bsherman@genome.lbl.gov (Brad Sherman)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: politix on the net
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:22:40 GMT
Reply-To: bsherman@genome.lbl.gov (Brad Sherman)
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Institute of Forest Genetics DataBase
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.224.80

In article <CMM.0.90.2.711668992.kristoff@genbank.bio.net> kristoff@GENBANK.BIO.NET (Dave Kristofferson) writes:
>> > There is something called the "Hatch Act," I believe, which prohibits
>> > federal employees from engaging in political lobbying.  You might not
>> > like this and it also seems somewhat strident to me, but that is the
>> > law currently.

The Hatch Act prohibits federal employees from participating in 
partisan campaigns.  It does not restrict their freedom of speech.
A federal employee is quite free to express an opinion in any
forum and in any manner about any candidate or any issue as long
as it is not part of a campaign.  One may write letters to the
editor, write articles, or display statements of approval or
disapproval.

Exactly what a "campaign" is will be decided by the judge, I suppose.
Some federal employees are exempt from the act.

Certain activities might give the appearance of violation without
actually being a violation.  There might be ethical considerations
in this case.  I think that Dr. Kristofferson may be worried about
this latter problem, perhaps with justification.

You can call the office of the Counsel to the President at 
(202) 653-7143 or -7188 for more information.  If you're planning
something illegal, don't tell them about it --it's their job
to catch you.
------------
	--Brad Sherman

My political opinions are available upon request.
From: chad@deep.UUCP (Chad Childers)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Political speech (fwd)
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:41:19 GMT
Reply-To: Chad Childers <chad@deep.mi.org>
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Ford Motor Company, Technical Affairs, FMEAplus Activity

Please cancel my subscription to the general bioforum, Dave.  I can't waste
time or bandwidth on this anymore.

If anyone comes up with a tailored virus to kill politicians selectively,
please tell me, and release it into the bioforum first so it knocks out all
the wanna-be politicians that have been posting recently.

-- 
"I have never loved anyone for love's sake, except, perhaps, Josephine -
a little."                                                          Napoleon I
/* Chad Childers */  chad @ home: deep.mi.org || work: quality.ta.ford.com
From: young@serum.kodak.com [Rich Young] (x37176)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: Pycnogonids
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:54:23 GMT
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <scottl.58@deakin.OZ.AU> scottl@deakin.OZ.AU (W. Scott Laidlaw) writes:

>In article <9207271928.AA12636@genbank.bio.net> cliff@WATSON.IBM.COM ("Cliff Pickover") writes:
>
>>I'm interested in learning whether there is any interesting
>>literature, books, or recent research on the Pycnogonids.
>
>>If anyone answers this admittedly obscure question, I would be grateful
>>if you send your replies to cliff@watson.ibm.com
>
>>Thanks, Cliff
>
>
>What are Pycnogonids?

	Common name: SEA SPIDER

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Rich Young                             | Phone: (716) 253-7176
Eastman Kodak Company                  | FAX: (716) 253-7254
Clinical Products Division             | Internet: young@serum.kodak.com
100 Carlson Road                       |
Rochester, New York, USA   14653-9122  |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: T80SMS1@NIU.bitnet
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Political speech
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:16:00 GMT
Distribution: bionet

macrides@WFEB2.BITNET writes:
Subject: Re: The '92 Election...
Date: 20 Jul 92 16:39:54 GMT

>       In the 60's the Nixon administration developed a "hit list" of
>scientists, including Nobel lauriates, who would not have their PHS grants
>funded/renewed because of their political activites during the election
>ampaign (in favor of a candidate whom they thought would have a more
>enlightened policy toward science).  An exec sec risked his job by informing
>one of these scientists about the list and the true reason his grant would not
>be renewed.  The people on this list put themselves, their staffs (including
>me) and their institutions at further risk of retaliations by trying to expose
>the existence of this hit list and unreasonable infringement of free speech.
>I personally think that in the long run, we are all better off for their risky
>choices.

  NOBODY is trying to stifle anyone's right to speak.  However,
within the bounds of such a right is the notion of proper time
and place.  All that Dave has said is that THIS forum (BIOSCI)
is inappropriate for political speech.  Given that there are
other places to express such opinions, all he is asking is that
you use them to say WHATEVER you wish.  This is VERY different
from Tricky Dick's squelshing of all contrary public opinion.

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
* Samuel M. Scheiner                 +  Being a scientist is like *
* Department of Biological Sciences  +  beating one's head        *
* Northern Illinois University       +  against a wall and then,  *
* DeKalb, Illinois 60115             +  when the wall begins to   *
* Phone:  (815) 753-7847             +  crumble, picking another  *
* Fax:    (815) 753-0461             +  intact wall against which *
* Bitnet: t80sms1@niu                +  to beat.   Steven Vogel   *
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
Newsgroups: bionet.general
From: chend@ucs.orst.edu (Donald Chen - Microbiology)
Subject: book wanted, new or used
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:20:24 GMT

I'm looking for a copy of the follwing book:

A Colour Atlas of Bacillus Species
by JM Parry, PCB Turnbull, and JR Gibson (1983)
Wolfe Medical Publications, England

I've been told that the book is now out of print. Does anyone
in England know if these publishers might still have copies in
stock? Alternatively, does anyone have a used copy they would
like to part with? A grad student in our lab says he saw this
book which was translated to German when he worked in Germany
last year. I would be willing to purchase a copy written in
German, French, or Spanish if there are no copies in English.
Any help is deeply appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Don Chen
Dept of Microbiology
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331-3804
USA

(503) 7371391
chend@ucs.orst.edu; chend@bionette.cgrb.orst.edu
From: ernest@lenti.med.umn.edu (Ernest Retzel (1535 49118))
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: How will we deal with high volume newsgroups - Part II.
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:59:47 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

Like Tony Travis, I have resisted adding to the discussion.  I also agree with
him that this is really not too much of a worry.  This is a situation that has,
in general, been addressed by a lot of the truly high-volume news groups, in
that there might not be a FAQ list [lots of energy], but the 
"old-timers" answer the questions quickly and off line, and the questioner 
posts a summary for the list.  Even when every biology person has their own 
news account, I somehow don't think we are going to match the number of groups 
or interests that are followed in comp.*.*.*; things evolve, and what was a 
small community becomes many new communities with vitalities similar to the 
original--intellectual suburbs, if you will.

Which brings me to Tony's point that bionet is a discussion forum.  It is our
connection to each other at a level beyond what we do in journals, and
different from what we do in our laboratories.  It will certainly evolve, but
probably not in a manner which makes it less complex--"They" aren't building
gigabaud networks to do e-mail faster...

Ernie Retzel
University of Minnesota

ernest@lenti.med.umn.edu

Information is the infrastructure...
From: ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.general
Subject: Re: Political speech (fwd)
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:17:02 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Original-To: bioforum@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <Wed.22Jul92.0358.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you write:
: Please cancel my subscription to the general bioforum, Dave.  I can't waste
: time or bandwidth on this anymore.
: 
: If anyone comes up with a tailored virus to kill politicians selectively,
: please tell me, and release it into the bioforum first so it knocks out all
: the wanna-be politicians that have been posting recently.

Put the names of posters you *don't* want to read into a 'kill' file and
let your newsreader ignore them for you - simple.

	Tony

--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751