From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Concealed Carry and Self Defense (Was: 2nd Ammendment)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Nov6.171755.7409@Firewall.Nielsen.Com>
	<1992Nov6.210740.4112@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:39:40 GMT

<In article <1992Nov6.210740.4112@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
<   In article <1992Nov6.171755.7409@Firewall.Nielsen.Com>, jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson) writes:
<   > In article <1992Nov6.170211.18927@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
<   > >> 
<   > >> *Sigh*, if the folks in the restaurant had been able to carry
<   > >> concealed, then most probably the incident in Killeen would never
<   > >> have been on the national news in the first place. The unreasonable
<   > >> restriction of their RKBA kept them from defending themselves
<   > >> and others in this situation. This situation was more of
<   > >> a defeat for the HCI crowd than the RKBA crowd if you think about
<   > >> it a bit. I *know* there are a lot more folks in this forum who can/will
<   > >> probably jump on this assertion of yours with additional
<   > >> evidence/facts relating to that case. All of this has been rehashed
<   > >> here in tpg *numerous* times.
<   > >> 
<   > >
<   > >In the first place who said they couldn't "carry concealed" 
<   > 
<   > The Killeen TX laws.

<   So I've been told.

	You've been told incorrectly; concealed carry of a firearm
	in the entire State of Texas is limited. There are no
	concealed carry permits. 

	Period.

	It's also illegal to openly carry a firearm "in
	a means calculated to cause alarm"; it should be obvious
	this makes all open carry off of ones property illegal.

<   > >So let's look at Killeen, again. There are no laws restricting the
<   > >right of honest, law-abiding citizens to buy weapons.  Or on anyone
<   > >else since it is in infringement of our rights to even ask us who
<   > >we are, or make us wait while they see if the id we have is real.
<   > >So maybe 50% of the people in the restaurant in Killeen were sitting
<   > >there comfortably with .38's on them.  And the guy walks in with
<   > >a semi-automatic rifle.  Do you agree that a nut would be more likely to
<   > >do just that - go for the big weapon.
<   > 
<   > A nut?  Sure.  Anybody with half a clue as to the difficulties of
<   > maneuvering a nice, big rifle around in a crowded, close-quarters
<   > combat situation? I doubt it.

<   So he uses a short, military style weapon.

	He could use a sawed-off shotgun; however, he wouldn't get
	to shoot and reload, shoot and reload as Hennard did.
	
	Real-life events in the last 6 months bear this out;
	one incident in Alabama and one incident in LA.

	In both cases, criminals were hit by legally armed
	civilians; in both cases, the crime *stopped*.

<   > > So what would the people do -
<   > >make it routine to carry semi-automatic's and then the guy walks in
<   > >with a fully automatic Uzi or Mac-10.
<   > 
<   > And gets shot dead by someone with a Derringer.
<   > 

<   Yeah, right.

	Huh; when terrorists armed with submachineguns 
	tried to kill everyone at an outdoor cafe in 
	Israel less than 11 years ago, they succeeded 
	only in shooting one person before several armed
	cafe patrons killed or wounded all the terrorists.

	Legal concealed carry, needless to say, is easier in
	Tel Aviv than in Killeen.