From: bickis@skmath3.pa.dec.com (M. Bickis)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: man discovers why pin-ups at work are inherently offensive
Date: 9 Sep 1992 14:53:05 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep02.181941.8066@Veritas.COM> rdh@veritas.COM 
(Robert Hartman) writes:
>But I think most women would have a hard time accepting an injunction
>from me "just because I don't like it."  I suspect most men might feel
>the same way, whoever such an edict came from.

Unless that person had some particular authority over me, I would have great
difficulty accepting such an edict.  Even if (s)he did have authority
I would (respectfully) ask for an explanantion.

>But that is a bit of a side-issue.  The main issue here has to do with
>Wolf's the case against pin-ups.  [ ... ]     The presence of
>pin-ups in the workplace emphasizes both the impossibility of the
>standard [of beauty] for most women, and a woman's vulnerability to sexual
>harrassment [if] she does manage to approach it.

But pin-ups aren't really pictures of women, they're pictures of "ghorrls".
(The correct pronunciation of this word involves a certain amount of
drooling. :-))  Seriously, a woman's best defence against such
harassment is to refuse to identify herself with the subjects of such
pictures. 

>" At the Shoemaker Mine in the United States, when women coal
>miners joined the work force, graffiti appeared that targeted for
>ridicule individual women's breasts and genitals;
>  ... But neither the American nor
>the British judicial system shows insight into the fact that this kind
>of harrassment is intended to make women in the workplace feel
>physically worthless, especially in comparison with the men.  "

Since I have never put up pinups, it's not for me to say what their
intent or function is.  However, I would like to know if Wolf's 
analysis is based on actual interviews and/or psychological tests with 
men who put up pinups, or is it speculative?  (And what does she say
about *women* who put up pinups?)  It is also a bit of problem in
defining exactly what distingtuishes a 'pin-up' from some other visual
expression.  (Is it like a bad smell--easy to recognize but impossible 
to define? :-))

I think it is a sorry kind of man who puts up pinups in the workplace,
whether it be for "lust and yearning" or for making other (real) women
feel physically worthless.  My own speculation is that they do this not
to put real women down but to boost their own sagging virility, either
in their own minds, or in those of their peers.  I once had a colleague
who kept a photograph of a naked woman over his desk.  The woman was
reclining, with her legs spread for the camera.  I actually think the
colleague was gay, and was trying to cover it up.  He still managed to
get his work done. ;-)

Although I take a dim view of pinups in the workplace, I don't think
anyone has the right to ban them.  I think people should be free to
put up whatever decor they like in their private space.  Public places,
of course, are a different matter, and any employer has the right to
insist that all displays are consistent with their corporate image.
It is also entirely a different matter if the material is offensively
aimed at a particular employee, such as Wolf's example of the miners.
In such a case, malicious intent is clear.  The offense is not merely 
in the mind of the offended.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bickis@math.usask.ca<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mik Bickis       \,,,       .*#*.  \    University of Saskatchewan
Department of        \,,,  ^\\|//^  ```\   Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Mathematics & Statistics \   )|(        ```\   Canada      S7N 0W0
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<S|A|S|K|A|T|C|H|E|W|A|N|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



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