HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: glenb@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: How'd he do it?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:56:30 GMT
Organization: Fly GlenAir
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.1]


 I was watchin' Skyblazin' last night and got mighty confused at one point.
 One of the men's freestyle competitors opened his main with a big puff
 of smoke. The odd thing is that both his hands seem to be above his head
 at the time...he doesn't seem to reach/pull anything. 

 My stupid cheapo VCR won't let me view it in slow motion so I'm left
 wondering how the heck he did this...anybody know?

 ..glen
From: dbelliot@willamette.edu (David B. Elliott)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Clouds
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:59:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: willamet.C18Iyz.1D7
Distribution: usa
Organization: Willamette University, Salem OR

While everybody is one the subject of clouds. I thought that I would add
my own little bit.

I made a student jump about a year ago in central Oregon (Sheridan) during the
summer and we had a few clouds in the sky above the drop zone. Since I was
still learning I popped the chute at about 5,000' and there were a few
clouds below me. Since they were scattered I could see the zone well, and
I could see around me clearly. I was able to pilot the chute through the
cloud, and it was a very different experience, one which I will try to
repeat. The absolute stillness and quiet was very different. For a few
seconds it seemed that I was going nowhere regardless of what my body was
telling me. It was facinating, although I have not punched through any
clouds in free-fall or in a chute since. It was a jump worth remembering.

IMHO, anyone who jumps when they can't see the ground for what ever reason
is just plain dumb. As someone else had already said: No jump is worth
dying over. Play by the rules and live to jump.
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: vannevar@panix.com (Vannevar Yu)
Subject: Z-Hills, Wind Tunnels
Organization: Extinct Flightless Birds Society (c)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:31:23 GMT

Just got back from a two-week Skydive City (SDC) vacation at sometimes-not-
sunny Zephyrhills, Florida.  The Freeflight School run by Frank Arenas seems
to have expanded (!) since I was last there (9/92), now with AFF instructors
Jeff Barbani, Dino Procos, Peter Wolfe, Wim Vanparijs, Bram Clement & Elle,
Pip & Judy.  Looks like they must be doing something right.

Got to see the "let's-pick-a-fight-with-anyone" Royal Marines do their
death-defying static lines from a plane provided by Phoenix parachute center.
Yes, it seems that the two drop zones located at the municipal airport are
still not cooperating with each other :( -- I was on the SDC otter load 6 last
1/21 at about 12-vish when we spotted the Phoenix CASA cutting in.  Since the
CASA dumps at 12.5 and the SDC otter at 13.5, the otter ended up waiting for
the CASA to do its thing before being able to go on jump run :( :(.  And 
since I was last out of that otter, I didn't appreciate having my sunset 2W
turned into a night jump :( :( :(.  Is there anything that we, as paying
skyleapers, can do to make these two drop zones cooperate and enhance
SAFETY?

Neuffie has a new canopy.  Hope he burns that ol' Crus.

WIND TUNNELS - can live with them, can live without them?
I got a chance to 'sneak preview' a wind tunnel project being built by
Frank Arenas (who is also an engineer) at SDC.  We're talking about a
mondo electric motor, customized prop, variable control, ... the works.
I was hoping to check this electric tunnel out while I was there, but it
was still being assembled.  This is supposed to be a 'no baggy suit needed'
tunnel for skydiving instruction only (no whuffos).  Can't wait!
Phoenix has its outdoor tunnel on display by the bypass, but it hasn't blown
air yet (for paying skyleapers) by the time I left.  Talked to Reddy Redfern
about it and he seems to be positive about it.  The Phoenix tunnel runs on
diesel and has the corresponding noise and heat, but they'll work it out
with the city.
A flyer was tacked on the wall of SDC manifest advertising a wind tunnel in
Kissemmee (sp?) FL, but I don't know if this is a 'baggy suit required'
tunnel or if it runs on electric or diesel or leftover DZ liquor =).

-- 
* #include<std_disclaimer.h>    /* This man enjoys terminal velocity */   *
* Vannevar Yu * is at vannevar@panix.com or {uupsi,cmcl2}!panix!vannevar  *
* Chemical Bank, New York City: Work Phone 212-310-7720, Fax 212-310-1190 *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: Re: SKYDIVE
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1993 00:10:32 GMT

Reply-to: Rich.Greenwood@p0.f3027.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Rich Greenwood)
Fido-To: russell webb

 -=> Quoting Russell Webb to Ric Schwandt <=-

 RW> Do you know Forest McBride?  I've been jumping about 15 years and
 RW> seem to recall hearing the name Rick Schwandt tossed around. 
 RW> -!- T.A.G. 2.6c4d Beta
 RW>  ! Origin: THE ANIMAL KINGDOM (1:106/6969@FIDONET)

Forest McBride runs the D.Z. at Gainsville Tx. Big but nice guy and runs
a good D.Z.
 

... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- GEcho 1.00
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: Aviator's Haven >>> Oklahoma City, (405)-685-6960 (1:147/3027.0)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn)
Subject: Re: Clouds
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:06:51 GMT

In article <C18Iyz.1D7@willamette.edu> dbelliot@willamette.edu (David B. Elliott) writes:

[ ..re: clouds.. ]

>The absolute stillness and quiet was very different. For a few
>seconds it seemed that I was going nowhere regardless of what my body was
>telling me.

Hmmm...the experience has proven to be the exact opposite for me.  Part of
what I like about clouds is that they give me a reference for my air speed.

--
  _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/     _/_/_/  _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/ #include <std/disclaimer.h>
   _/    _/ _/  _/ _/   _/ _/   _/ _/  _/ _/      sparkie
    _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  _/_/    _/_/   _/ _/_/     horn@mickey.jsc.nasa.gov
_/_/_/ _/     _/   _/ _/  _/  _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/    D-14578 - Blue Skies!
From: horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Breaking one FAR can ruin your whole day.
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:32:02 GMT
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center

In article <1jledoINNdju@shelley.u.washington.edu> miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Miolnir) writes:
>The only reg I see in the FAR's that actually applies to the jumper
>says that you can't throw anything out of the plane unless "reasonable
>precautions" are taken to prevent damage to persons or property on the
>ground.  

What about the part that specifies clearance from clouds?  I think it's part
105.  Somewhere in there it says: if you're jumping from <10k' MSL you have to
have 500' horizontal clearance from clouds, you must be at least 1000' above
any clouds and at least 500' below any clouds (I'm not sure I remember the
numbers correctly).  

In any case, it is fairly well established that punching clouds is prohibited
by the FAA.

Later,
- sparkie
From: jmilstea@digi.lonestar.org (Jim Milstead)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: newbie blues II
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:11:09 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

I have two RW courses on line. One is for people who
are just out of AFF and one is for the intermediate
jumper who wishes to start 4-way RW. Since both are
sort of long and I don't want to waste bandwidth I
can mail a hard copy if you will E-mail me your
address. This may help you with the blues.

Being put in an 8-way is no big deal. Last weekend
we put a tandem in a 10-way. Does this qualify that
person for an SCR?

Jim Milstead
From: rxb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Ray Barry)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Q: AFF safety
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:24:30 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh


> The safety record of AFF is extremely good, and as a training method it
> seems to work quite well.  I've never heard of it being outlawed anywhere
> (except perhaps Britain, but then again don't they still require first
> jumps to be made with rounds there?).  Having gone through it myself
> 1.5 years ago, I'd definitely recommend it to anyone.
> 
> ! Paul Koning, NI1D, A-13683

Thought I would let you know that AFF does exist hear in Britain, although it
is MEGA expensive (2000 quid for a course, compared to about 17 quid for S/L
jump, and about 40 quid for the initial training). 

The usual method of progression is to go through the catagory system, ie
starting of on S/L for about the first 6 jumps, then onto 3, 5, 10, 15 second
delays etc. It take people around 40-50 jumps (some more, some less) before
they are cleared off student status and can then progress to squares.

I personally did a mish-mash of both the systems. I started off on the static
line round jobs and got onto 5s delay freefall. At this time I went to the US
for work/holiday and still wanted to skydive. Round canopies ? DM boots ?
front mounted reserves ? Naaah, forget all that crap, the only way these guys
wanted me to learn was by jumping out at max altitide and holding onto me.
A bit more expensive, but a hell of a lot cheaper than in Britain, and a hell
of a lot more fun than a quick canopy ride on something which flies like a fish
doesn't.

The AFF method is a lot more thrilling and gets past the really boring bits,
including sitting on the airfield for weeks and weeks and not jumping because 
the wind is over 10mph and the round canopies are uncomfortable enough to land 
as it is. I would certainly recommend it to anyone except my gandmother.

As for first time jumpers coming back, well....
I am part of a club at Edinburgh Uni, and we train about 100 first time jumpers
a year. About 20% of these will make another jump or so, and about 5% will continue
with the sport all the way to getting off student status. Not very good returns
is it ? I'm sure a lot more AFF students come back for more, although our DZ doesn't
have AFF.

I have to say that you AFF guys are sooo lukcy :)

Ray
From: randy.scott@filebank.cts.com (Randy Scott) 
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: VFR flights
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:19:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The File Bank BBS - Fallbrook, CA  619-728-4318
Reply-To: randy.scott@filebank.cts.com (Randy Scott) 

>Apart from that, active DZ doesn't mean that airplanes are told to stay
>away.  It means they're expected to watch out for skydivers.  Likewise,
>skydivers are expected to watch out for planes, since the air above the
>DZ is NOT exclusively ours.  We're operating VFR -- see and avoid, remember?

Jumping at Elsinore, CA is like jumping in the middle of a VFR
corridor.  I've personally seen at least 5 planes up close at about
3000 ft.  The pretty lake and the freeway (we know what VFR _really_
means, right?) are like magnets for all the ma and pop pilots.  We've
never had a bit of problem with controlled flights though.

Who among us really thinks that the spotter can see all planes that
are flying toward the drop done, at any altitude, coming from any
direction?  Couple that with the fact that a dangerous airplane is
probably between 2 and 5 miles away during jump run.
You're fooling yourself if you think that a 1 minute jump run
absolutely cleared the surrounding 5 miles of airspace, and got the
plane over the perfect spot.

What would our pilot friends think if they realized that we STOP
looking for traffic once we leave the plane?  That's like a pilot
closing his eyes for a minute!  I don't know about you guys, but
during a serious 8-way team jump, I'm not looking for traffic.

Hey, we all know that shit happens.  We can minimize the risks but
never eliminate them.  Just something to think about.
---
 . SPEED 1.3g #1056 . Only skydivers know why the birds sing.
                                               
----
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| The File Bank BBS - 619-728-4318 - PCBoard v.14.5a/E10 - USR HST & DS    |
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Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jno3190@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (John N. Otakie)
Subject: Re: Military flights (Was: Re: Jumping through clouds)
Organization: Boeing Computer Services
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:08:15 GMT

Robin King (king@glacier.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov:
>>Anyone else noticed that the military doesn't seem to care that they're 
>>flying over an active DZ?

>Or how about the Highway Patrol planes?  (CHP in California)
>One time I was under canopy at a _clearly_ marked DZ near Hollister,
>and these two bozos are flying a big circle around the DZ area!!

>You could forgive them for "not knowing about skydivers" except that
>these planes shared the same damn hangar with another skydive operation
>in Paso Robles!!!  Jeez. I was pissed!

Add the FAA to the bozo list.  A couple years ago at Snohomish we had 
the local FAA folks flying their King Air in not-very-big circles around 
our student field at 3000 ft WHILE we were dropping loads from 10k!  When 
manifest finally contacted them they claimed that they were just watching 
our operation.

I guess they were afraid that we might be doing something unsafe.  ;-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Otakie                             e-mail:  jno3190@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
Aerodynamics Techlology Staff           Phone:  206-965-5715
Boeing Commercial Airplane Co.          Boeing mailstop:  6M-WC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: sas58295@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord Soth       )
Subject: Skydiving Gifs or Jpegs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:02:20 GMT
Keywords: Gifs

I'm looking for skydiving gifs.  Especially very scenic
ones.  Ones with backgrounds of the skyline or similar
views.  If anyone could mail or post ftp sites for these
kinds of gifs or jpegs I would greatly appreciate it. 

				Scott

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Lord Soth, Knight |||| email to --> LordSoth@uiuc                ||||||||
| of the Black Rose |||| NeXT to ---> sas58295@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu ||||||||
|   @}--'-,--}--    |||| Anonymous -> an2858@anon.penet.fi         ||||||||
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|    I have no clue what I want to say in here so I won't say anything.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ljones@cithe501.cithep.caltech.edu (Lawrence Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Q: AFF safety
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:50:03 GMT
Organization: HEP, California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cithe502.cithep.caltech.edu

In article <1993Jan25.163144.16452@engage.pko.dec.com>, koning@koning.enet.dec.com (Paul Koning) writes:
|> 
|> The safety record of AFF is extremely good, and as a training method it
|> seems to work quite well.  I've never heard of it being outlawed anywhere
|> (except perhaps Britain, but then again don't they still require first
|> jumps to be made with rounds there?).  Having gone through it myself
|> 1.5 years ago, I'd definitely recommend it to anyone.
|> 

At least when I was in Britain, 3 years ago, AFF courses did exist - however
less DZ's were giving the course than is typical over here. If you take AFF
then your first jump is a freefall, otherwise, yes, I think your first jump is
on a round - mine was. (Tandem freefall jumps are also available).

Other than that I agree with Paul - AFF has a good safety record.

Cheers,
     Lawrence.

-- 
     * I know you believe you understand what you think I said but I am *
     * not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.    *
     * All opinions expressed are my own.                               *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@vti.com (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Breaking one FAR can ruin your whole day.
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:58:34 GMT

Rob Griffiths (robg@Apple.COM) wrote:
: In article <9301192210.aa11028@ingate.microsoft.COM>
: garrettt@microsoft.com (Garrett Tolsma) writes:
: > Could I be putting my pilots licence at risk if I break a FAR
: > while jumping?
: 
: Your license would certainly be at risk.

Isn't that analogous to taking away your automobile drivers license
if you get a ticket for doing something while being a pedestrian?

BTW--I'm not questioning Rob Griffiths estimate of the situation,
     I'm questioning this particular practice of the FAA.  Also,
     although I know stuff about planes, I am speaking/thinking
     as a non-pilot.
--
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166

This sentence is false.
From: 003166j@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WILLIAM JARVIS)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Military Flights
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:06:38 GMT
Organization: Acadia University


    The DZ I jump at is at a small civil airport with just one runway, but 
about 20 miles down the road is an air force base with three squadrons of CP-
140 Auroras (that's the same as a P-3C Orion to all you Yankees), and a SAR 
squadron with some Hercs and choppers.  They know where we are, but every 
once in a while, a Herc likes to do a *very low* emergency approach, and we 
get the choppers rattling by just to say "Hi!".  When I was taking my first 
lesson this fall, there was a SAR competition going on at the base, and 
there were Buffalo aircraft all over the place on ops.  By the time we went 
up, though, they were all gone.  I kinda wished I could have jumped from it 
instead of the 182, though, it looked a bit more stable.
     The real problem we have with the Auroras is that they're painted grey, 
and are an absolute bitch to see from the air.  I've been flying with a 
friend before, and we've had to do a quick dive to get out of their way, 
because they told the tower where they were, which was right on our ass! The 
wingtip vortices are really strong, and could rip the wings right off a 172 
or 182 if you were close enough.  Even with chutes on or not, I would 
imagine that your chances of getting out of a 182 in that circumstance 
wouldn't do you much good.
     Not a nice thought. . . .

					Jason    
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: ESPN/Skyblazin' 92
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:51:47 GMT

Reply-to: Ed@p7.f68.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Ed)
Fido-To: skydive

There seems to be a conflict of info re airing times of Skyblazin'92
on ESPN this w.e.
The Chuting Star reports Sunday, the 24th @ 130pm + an encore perf. Jan
27th @ 100pm. (I believe EST, though it doesent say.)
Parachutist reports Jan 23rd @ 2:00pm EST + an encore perf. the 28th @
7:30pm EST. The latter appears to be in line w/ my local TV guide.
  It would appear to be a good idea to "Check your local listing"
       Blue skies, D.E.

--- DB 1.52/000077
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: D.E.'s Skydiving Dungeon (1:110/68.7)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil (jim )
Subject: Re: CRW Question
Followup-To: rec.skydiving
Organization: nrl
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:08:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.110717.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu
(Brandon France) wrote:
> 
> I was looking through my January issue of Parachutist and noticed that
> in the picture of Zen CRW on pg 31 (I think) something looked odd about
> the way their chutes were deploying. It seemed to me that they didn't
> pack their main into a bag.  Is this right?  We don't have many CRW 
> people up here and I've never watched a CRW competition so I don't have
> anything to go on.  Is it common for CRW jumpers to pack this way?  Is it
> safe?  Is the parachute itself designed to be packed this way?
> 
> Brandon France

While I have not done CRW, it is my understanding that some CRW folk do not
use sliders and still others will not use a deployment bag.  This would be
for the same reason that BASE jumpers omit those items: opening speed. 
Since you are opening right out of the plane, the slider is not ness. at
slow air speeds.

Just remember NOT to back for a BASE or sub-term opening and then take it
to terminal velocity.  I understand that one of the local skydivers had
packed for a last jump at bridge day, but was unable to make the dive.  He
remembered the pack job after hitting terminal velocity on his next
skydive.  It seems that the 'chute blew apart on opening, not to mention
what it did to him on opening/explosion shock. 8-( 

=================================================
wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil
B-15788
"Are you ready to skydive?!?..............DOOR!!"
=================================================
From: dan@triage.UUCP (Mr. Dive OuttaDa Skyy)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: New Comer!
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:05:07 GMT
Organization: Triage Corp

In article <C15rD3.AAF@dcs.ed.ac.uk> rxb@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Ray Barry) writes:
>Well, I thought I would just have a browse through the many millions of newsgroups,
>just on the offchance that there is one related to skydiving. Yes! and here it is.
>I can now use this newsgroup to ask all those silly, embarassing questions that I
>dare not ask at my local drop zone for fear of looking like a complete fud. I've
>read the past 46 or so articles, and still have no clue what a LORAN spot is.
>
>Anyway, I jump over here in the UK, where things are a lot different (we still jump
>rounds with DM boots), for about 50 jumps before we can graduate to squares, or less
>jumps if you go through some sort of AFF course, which is what I did, and have just
>recently made my first couple of jumps on squares.
>
>Ray Barry
>A 100059 - this is if course my BPA number, not a USPA number.


LORAN is actually an old VooDoo custom, whereby the spotter calls upon
the great sky God NAROL for guidance to the ground.  It is said that if 
the spotter is pure of heart and never pulls low, the spotter will 
be blessed with a reasonable spot, else ..... :-)
From: aharburn@bnr.ca (Adrian Harburn)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Q: AFF safety
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:11:05 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


: The safety record of AFF is extremely good, and as a training method it
: seems to work quite well.  I've never heard of it being outlawed anywhere
: (except perhaps Britain, but then again don't they still require first
: jumps to be made with rounds there?).

	You guessed it - we're back in the middle ages in England. We all wear
bowler hats and live in 'cute' little thatched cottages in the country. This is
to avoid the numerous American tourists in London/Oxford or Cambridge - 'but Momaren't those the only Cities in England'.
	Oh my God is there a life outside the good ol' U.S. of A?

	Adrian

p.s. It's been a long day!
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving