HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth FAQ Answers: Part 03 (ANS Forth Standard Info).  (V1.0:01.Jan.93)
From: FAQ@willett.pgh.pa.us (comp.lang.forth FAQ source)
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:39:29 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U




What is this dpANS and what happened to BASIS?

    dpANS is a draft proposed Ansi National Standard.  The BASIS documents
    were the internal working documents of the Forth Technical Committee
    X3.J14.  Prior to this, to my knowlege, the internal working documents
    for any ANSI Technical Committees were not released to the public.
    X3.J14 broke new ground by not only making those documents available,
    but by making them available electronicly.  X3.J14 has now made the
    Forth dpANS available for public review.  Because this is no longer an
    internal working document, but an official ANSI document, it is not
    available except in printed form.  ANSI makes its money by selling
    standards documents, and _probably_ will not allow the standard to be
    distributed in electronic form.



Where can I find a copy of the dpANS standard?

    The Forth standard effort has progressed to the third dpANS stage.
    dpANS = draft proposed Ansi National Standard.  The 2nd public review
    period started June 26, 1992 and ends August 25, 1992.  Cost is $50 US,
    $60 overseas.
	 The document X3.215.199x may be ordered from:
	     Global Engineering Documents, Inc.
	     2805 McGaw Ave.
	     Irvine, CA  92714
	     1 (800) 854-7179 or
	       (714) 261-1455 (outside USA & Canada)
    [Info courtesy of Elizabeth Rather.]
    [I know that this is old.  Updates appreciated! -dwp]



How can I make offical comments on dpANS?

    You can send your dpANS related correspondence to:
	    X3 Secretariat/CBEMA
	    Attention:  Lynn Barra
	    311 First Street N.W.,  Suite 500,
	    Washington  DC   20001-2178
    Send a copy of your comments to:
	    American National Standards Institute
	    Attention: BSR Center
	    11 West 42nd Street
	    New York, NY  10036
    [Information copied from _Forth_Dimensions_ Volume XIII, Number 5.]



How can I send email to the ANS Forth Technical Committee?

    You can also submit comments electronicly:
    For those of you worried about mail getting thru to ANSI by Feb.  25,
    I'm happy to report that it is possible to EMAIL public review
    responses.  X3 has a new CompuServ account.  From whatever board you're
    on, it's presumably possible to address CompuServ; having figured out
    how to do that, address your mail to:
	Lynn Barra, X3, c/o Dan Arnold, 75300,2354
    If there's not enuf address space to list both names, just use Dan &
    reference Lynn in the message.  Be sure the message clearly states up
    front that it is a public review response to dpANS Forth.
    [Information supplied by Elizabeth Rather via ForthNet]

    Their Internet address is:    75300.2354@compuserve.com
    Notice that the ',' changes to a '.' and that there is an
    'e' at the end of compuserve.
From: secrist@msdsws.enet.dec.com (Strong datatypes for weak minds.)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: About Forth for the DEC Rainbow
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Any generic CP/M-80 or MS-DOS BIOS-based, "ASCII console-type interface" 
Forth would be suitable for a Digital Rainbow, e.g. Uniforth, LMI, F83,
FIG, etal.  

I do not own or have access to a Rainbow so I can't help you on floppies
or anything, but there are plenty of sources for CP/M source you can
build with ASM or get on an MS-DOS floppy you can run straight.

Regards,
rcs

Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: kinsman@ssd.kodak.com (Andy Kinsman 253-7794)
Subject: PYGMY v1.4 compatibility problem?
Originator: kinsman@massive
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 03:36:26 GMT

I recently downloaded a copy of PYGMY FORTH 1.4 and found it would
not run on my TRUE BLUE IBM PC XT computer.  It has 640K and only
a monochrome display card.  Everything else seems to run on it:-)
The package does run on my Epson Equity II+ 286 clone.  Could anybody
speculate on the reason this new version of PYGMY 1.4 might not work?

I will perform any compatibility tests required.  Thanks.  -AAK

Andrew A. Kinsman   kinsman@pixel.kodak.com
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ForthNet Information (FAQs)
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:36 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 1,  Topic 15
Message 16        Mon Dec 07, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 10:31 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
 USR Dual Standard 16.8K  (416) 629-7000

 Date: 12-05-92 (16:05)
   To: ALL
 From: RAY DUNCAN
 Subj: COMP.LANG.FORTH

 I follow the comp.lang.forth conference on USENET and I notice
 that in the recently posted FAQ for that conference there is some
 outdated information.

 The area code for the LMI Forth Board changed about a year ago to
 310 (it previously was 213).

 Also, a member of the ForthNet that was not listed is the Forth
 Systeme GmbH Bulletin Board System in Breisach, Germany.  The
 Forth Systeme BBS runs PCBOARD and is networked to the LMI Forth
 Board (and thence to the rest of the ForthNet) using NETMAIL.
 The SYSOP of the Forth Systeme BBS is Klaus Flesch and the phone
 number is (country code 49) 7667-556.  I believe they use a US
 Robotics dual-mode HST modem and support all baud rates up to
 9600. ---
  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.04  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm) Hub

[I'll update the LMI area code.  I'd just as soon not put known speculation
into the FAQ, esp. if Mr. Flesch could post the correct info.  -dwp]
-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: X3J14 Holding Pattern Here
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:57 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 10,  Topic 12
Message 195       Sun Dec 13, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 20:44 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
 USR Dual Standard 16.8K  (416) 629-7000

 Date: 12-07-92 (01:40)
   To: ALL
 From: MARCEL HENDRIX
 Subj: VALUE

 Re Changes in dpANS-3 (Bernd Paysan):

 bp> 8. VALUE changed to take an initial argument from the stack
 bp>    (like CONSTANT)

 I hope we'll get some background on this. Of course, it is now
 reversed to the way it is in F-PC and like everybody else has
 had it for a decade, but the previous dpANS proposal was better
 with respect to ROMmability (IMHO).  I suppose now we'll have to
 put in code ( a chain? ) to initialize all VALUE's when the
 system boots from ROM.

 Does this mean that VARIABLE's and CREATE structures may be
 initialized too (I know the committee doesn't want to think
 about ROMmability yet, but...)?

 Marcel Hendrix,
 Dutch Forth Workshop

 NET/Mail : FS FORTH Systeme BBS West Germany ++49 7667 556
 ---
  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.04  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm) Hub



-----
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: KOH@mindlink.bc.ca (Kenneth O'Heskin)
Subject: Re: Help for F-PC and TCOM
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:36:34 GMT


> Date: 12-16-92 (07:17)
>   To: ALL
> From: RON WENSLEY
> Subj: F-PC STRINGS
>
> I am currently using F-PC v3.55. I would like to find string
> handlers that are like BASIC's LEN$, MID$, RIGHT$, and LEFT$. If
> anyone has any words for these or knows were I can get them let
> me know via this BBS. Thanks
>         Ron Wensley
>


        The file you want is listed on my BBS (# appended below)
        as RBUTILS.ARJ. The archive contains Ron Braithewaite's
        string package as well as some of the classiest utilities
        (and much used by myself) I've seen for F-PC or any other
        Forth. These are all CODE definitions, the string package
        being nearly 100K, and which contains numerous parsing and
        pattern matching operators.

        You may find the file closer to home, but I couldn't
        possibly guess where "home" is, what with Genie-CRS-RCFB-
        Ferret Face-Grapevine etc., but it's about a 4 minute
        download at 2400 baud.  -koh



--

        .  kenneth o'heskin              .  art of programming bbs
               . . . .                   .  (604) 826-9663 24/hr 2400 8n1
        .  koh@mindlink.bc.ca            .  grafix.midi.800+ forth files.
From: mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth for Sparc and other Unix based computers
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:19:20 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Summary: Where to find docs to write native Forth on Unix systems?

In article <BEVAN.93Jan1223716@panda.cs.man.ac.uk> bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:
:In article <1i20irINNecr@life.ai.mit.edu> mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin) writes:
:   >Stephen J Bevan (bevan@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:
:   >: where am I supposed to get a FREE native code Forth
:   >: system for SPARCstations?  With so many implementations of other
:   >: languages available for free, I have a tough time justifying the
:   >: purchase of a Forth system.
:
:      There are versions of Forth that are designed to run on any Unix 
:   workstation. They are written in "C" for portability. For a "free" one,
:   try TILE from the GNU collection of programs. Of course you will have
:   to spend time instead of money compiling it and getting it to work.
:
:It compiles without a glitch on a SPARC, but it fails the second
:criterion i.e. it isn't a _native_ code FORTH.  If you are wondering
:why it has to be native, see the message I was responding to (back on
:the 9th of Dec).
:
     Right, its not native code. But the trouble is that the SPARCstation
is a Unix box. And Unix works with C. So if you want a native code
anything on a Unix box you'll have trouble with the documentation. The
documentation tells you how to write C programs, but finding what you
need for native code from an assembler is not easy. I've looked and
I don't know where to find it for any of the Unix boxes I have access
to. For all I know some companies might consider it to be a trade secret.
I haven't noticed any Forth systems for Unix boxes that were not written
as C programs.
     Lets hope somebody who knows how to program a SPARKstation or other
Unix box down to the bare metal will enlighten us all. 

-- 
   Michael Coughlin             mikc@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth FAQ Answers: Part 92 (Forth In Print).  (V1.0:01.Jan.93)
From: FAQ@willett.pgh.pa.us (comp.lang.forth FAQ source)
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:39:49 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U


  [Note, there are many other entries that could be added here.  I don't
  have the time to type in a bibliography.  Please send me materials that
  you consider worthy of mention.  I would also like to be able to include
  your comments about why a particular selection is worthy.  Remember:
  Some of the readers of this message do not know the "big names", either
  as regards book titles or authors.
  -dwp]



Where can I find "Threaded Interpreted Languages"?

  General consensus seems to be that this book is out of print, but
  sometimes available from booksellers or used book places.  

  G.LEFAVE [Gene] (on GEnie) provides this bibliographic info:
 
    Threaded Interpretive Languages
     R.G. Loeliger

    BYTE BOOKS, 1981, ISBN:0-07-038360-X
From: jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr)
Subject: Re: Forth Standard Debate
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:55:39 GMT


	mike ..

	your posting is so massive i fear we will weary the backbone
servers if we go on like this!

	let me apologize for scolding you. you sounded so negative,
like you were saying, "Forth really has problems, and this ANS Standard
is *really* going to *** it up."

	secondly, you say that standards don't matter in embedded
control. in my practice, this is utterly false. 83-Standard is
currently the most maintainable (i.e., fire your programmer and hire
one a year later) dialect of Forth.

	taste and see for yourself how sweet it is. program in
dpANS Forth and see how neat it is!

		=jax=
-- 
 # jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us}  # #  Member  # # Vice President,       #
 # du!isis!koscej!jax        # # X3J14 TC # #  Forth Interest Group #
 # JAX on GEnie              # # for ANS  # #   P.O. Box 2154       #
 # SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364 # #  Forth   # #    Oakland, CA 94621  #
From: landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: native FORTH for R3000/IRIX available /beta/ (was Re: forth+)
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:38:03 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bang.hal.com

>Stephen J Bevan (bevan@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:
>: where am I supposed to get a FREE native code Forth
>: system for SPARCstations?  With so many implementations of other
>: languages available for free, I have a tough time justifying the
>: purchase of a Forth system.

You already have one.  You just don't know it.

The boot prom in all SPARCstations is coded in a 32-bit dialect of Forth.
There's a way to make the machine come up as a Forth machine, I think
through the diagnostics interface.

Ask your Sun salesperson about getting more documentation on this.

Of course, if what you wanted was to be able to run Forth in a window, I'm
not sure that this helps.

	Howard
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Selecting a Public Domain Kernel
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:08:32 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 1,  Topic 7
Message 182       Sun Dec 06, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 15:22 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -
 USR 16.8K Dual Standard  (416) 629-7000

 Date: 12-05-92 (20:28)
   To: B.RODRIGUEZ2 [BRAD]
 From: STEVE PALINCSAR
 Subj: SELECTING A PUBLIC DOMAIN

 >The manual for MMSForth is the book 'FORTH, A Text &
 Reference'... which is >one of the books you already own.
 MMSForth is, however, a commercial product, >available for the
 IBM PC and (still!) TRS-80. My two-year-old literature says >it
 costs $180.  Contact Miller Microcomputer Services, 61 Lake Shore
 Road, >Natick, Massachusetts, 01760, telephone 617-653-6136.

 Kelly & Spies' Forth, A Text & Reference is also one of the
 manuals for HS/Forth, another commercial product.

 I tried calling the fellow who left the original internet inquiry
 on the telephone the other day to tell him that, but there was no
 answer. ---
    Via ProDoor 3.4R
  * The Running Board 301-229-5623/5342
  * PostLink(tm) v1.04  RUNNINGA (#2) : RelayNet(tm)



-----
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: u7822042@cc.nctu.edu.tw (Chaos)
Subject:  Re: Comparison of R3000 and i386
Organization: National Chiao Tung University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:46:14 GMT

   Can you post your i386 version on any ftpable internet machine or mail it 

to me. I am long for one 32-bit i386 forth for a long time. Thanks !

Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Subject: uniforth pro
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:16:34 EST

TO: ahenden@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

Would you tell me a little about the pro package (especially the
libraries).

It has been good to hear recent Uniforth news.

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Networking
Date: 25 Dec 92 10:09:02 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 17,  Topic 16
Message 6         Sun Dec 06, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 15:24 EST
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board -  
 USR 16.8K Dual Standard  (416) 629-7000  

 Date: 12-04-92 (13:29)
   To: B-LEE [B0B]
 From: JIM HENRY
 Subj: FORTH BBS

 B[> Forth is an elegant solution that is implemented not only in
 process contro B[> i.e. controlling machinery like the motors
 that move telescopes around, but B[> also in inventory data
 collection, as the source for a BBS, a wordprocessor

 What BBS is written in FORTH?
 ---
    SLMR 2.1a   "I'm out to get me!" -- Paranoid schizophrenic
  * DW'S TOOLBOX * ATLANTA, GA * 1,404,471-6636
  * PostLink(tm) v1.04  DWTOOLBOX (#1035) : RelayNet(tm)


-----
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
From: dekeyser@scapin.etca.fr (Jean-Luc Dekeyser)
Subject: need papers
Organization: Site Experimental en Hyperparallelisme - E.T.C.A. - FRANCE
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:52:53 GMT

Greetings,

Can someone help me to get papaers on visual languages, visual programming and program visualization.

Please E-mail your responses (or papers) to: benalia@lifl.fr

Thanks.
Akram Benalia. 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON)
Subject: Re: Safety. Was: Re: Pointers
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:41:28 GMT

hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>The expression use_double(...), as
>I intend it, means that the bit pattern, or concatenated bit pattern, 
>described in the parentheses is to be now used as a double number in
>any application.  Therefore, in   process(use_double(...)), process just
>assumes that what is presented to it is a double, just as the cast to
>double declares that the result is double.

I don't know why I bother, but here it is anyway...

In Gnu C:
	#define use_double(var) ({ \
		union { typeof(var) old; double new; } tmp; \
		tmp.old = var; \
		tmp.new \
	})

In C++:
	template<class T>
	double use_double(T var) {
		union { T old; double new; } tmp;
		tmp.old = var;
		return tmp.new
	}

Satisfied, Mr. Rubin?

-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature virus is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
From: landon@Apple.COM (Landon Dyer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: TRAC Specification
Date: 1 Jan 93 06:28:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


i found a description of TRAC(tm) in the second
edition of _macro processors_ by a.j.  cole
(cambridge university press, ISBN 0-521-28560-7).
it is nowhere near a specification, but it does
give the flavor of the language, and you could
probably implement a similar language with the
description provided.

references cited by cole include:

	mooers, c.n. & deutsch, l.p. _TRAC, a text handling language_,
	pp 229-46 proc. a.c.m. 20th nat'l conference, 1965.

	mooers, c.n., _TRAC, a procedure-describing langauge for
	the reactive typewriter_; pp. 215-19 comm. a.c.m. vol. 9,
	no. 3, 1966.

	mooers, c.n., _reply to letter "language protection by trade-
	mark ill advised" by b.a. galler_, comm. a.c.m. vol. 11,
	no. 3, 1968.

i'm fairly certain that TRAC(tm) is indeed a
trademark.  mooers is (in)famous for his
insistence that the trademark symbol accompany use
of the language's name.

sam76 is/was a similar language; it was described
in a couple early issues (~1977) of dr. dobb's
journal.  sam76 may have had a brief revival on
the pc in the early 80's, but i am not certain of
this.


-- 

landon dyer
apple computer newton team
not the views of apple computer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: fjd@eskimo.com (Frederick Dickey)
Subject: Re: TRAC Specification
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:13:42 GMT

dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:


>I am interested in a language called `TRAC'.  Unfortunately, the only language
>referece I have is a photocopy out of a textbook with no title, author, or
>bibliography.  There is a footnote that says "TRAC is [...] being maintained
>by the Rockford Research Institute Inc., Cambridge, Mass."

>If someone knows of relevent articles or ftp sites, I'd be obliged if you could
>pass them on.

The textbook is probably Peter Wegner's "Programming Languages, Information
Structures, and Machine Organization", McGraw Hill, 1968.

TRAC is the brainchild of Calvin Mooers, who was active in the early days
of the PC. I haven't heard anything about him in years. He was noted for
espousing an unusually strict view of copyrights as applied to programs.
I suspect that he is dead and with him the Rockford Research Institute, but
this is pure speculation on my part.

There is a TRAC spec, published by the Rockford Research Institute in 1972.
I have seen a copy.

Some other sources of information are Ted Nelson's "Dream Machines", which
was republished by the Microsoft Press a few years ago. This is not a
particularly good reference, but it is something.

There is a version of Emacs for DOS machines called "Freemacs". Freemacs
uses a built-in programming language called Mint in much the same way
that Gnu Emacs uses a variant of Lisp. Mint IMHO is very similar to TRAC.
The Freemacs documentation includes a reasonably complete description of 
the language.  I know that Freemacs, until recently at least, could be 
found on an archive server at Clarkson. Getting a copy of Freemacs may be
your best bet.

Fred
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: TRAC Specification
Date: 27 Dec 92 17:21:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson


I am interested in a language called `TRAC'.  Unfortunately, the only language
referece I have is a photocopy out of a textbook with no title, author, or
bibliography.  There is a footnote that says "TRAC is [...] being maintained
by the Rockford Research Institute Inc., Cambridge, Mass."

If someone knows of relevent articles or ftp sites, I'd be obliged if you could
pass them on.

Thanks in advance...
--
Dave Schaumann			dave@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: ac999239@umbc8.umbc.edu (ac999239)
Subject: Re: Sorting Algorithm Needed
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:39:32 GMT

> Does anyone have an algorithm in Pascal that sorts names/words 
> alphabetically?  I would like one that does items that are three (3) words 
> in length, such as 'Firstname Middlename Lastname.'  It may be a simple 
> algorithm but being a programmer who has not done much programming, I have 
> not figured it out yet.

I assume you are using a record to hold the names and I assume you want it
sorted by last name? Basically just get a sorting algorithm out of any book
and do the comparison test on the lastname element of the record, but then
swap the entire record with another if the algorithm calls for it. Having
an array of this record type is also useful. There are so many sorting
algorithms out there and alot of books flat out give you the coding for some
of them. If your library has the book titled PASCAL by Koffman that has lots
of examples on sorting algorithms.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc