HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:44:18 -0600
From:         "(Byron Davis)" <byron@OSIRIS.USI.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matching cases

Brian,

I would be uncomfortable with selecting subsamples from the larger sample. It
has been my experience that more (of sample cases) is always better than
less. Your problem in my mind is not the large sample mean which you can
have good confidence in because of the large N, it is with the small N=17
sample. This is often a problem with rare diseases among other problems.

If tests using t between these samples shows no difference, it may be that
you could explore other comparisons such as one based on the median or
one based on ranks. In other words, I would be tempted to use all tools I
could to approach the problem and this would include some nonparameteric
comparisons.

Byron L. Davis		byron@osiris.usi.utah.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:05:57 U
From:         dick darlington <dick_darlington@QMRELAY.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Matching cases

                                                                    10:37 PM
  OFFICE MEMO                                                 Time:
                      Subject:
                      Matching cases                                09-25-92
                                                              Date:

Re Brian Day's problem: One almost loses statistical power by dropping cases.
As I understand it, Day has a variety of measures about each case, that he is
considering using to match some cases and discard others.  In such a situation,
I feel it is almost always better to use that information as covariates in a
regression or linear model, discarding no cases.  Small sample sizes lose
power, but unequal sample sizes are no problem.  Making sample sizes more equal
by discarding cases from the larger sample generally loses power; I have
trouble thinking why one would ever do it.
Dick Darlington, Psychology, Cornell
#000#
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:15:41 CDT
From:         "(J. Philip Miller)" <phil@WUBIOS.WUSTL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Matching cases (fwd)

 Frank Dane <FDANE@UGA.bitnet> writes:
>
> Brian Day asked about selecting matching cases from a large data set
> to compare with a n=17 data set.  Previous comparisons between n=17
> and n=3052 produced "no differences".
>
> Assuming the 17 v. 3052 comparison was theoretically (as opposed to
> practically) reasonable, I would argue that matching should not be
> employed.  Instead, about 17 cases should be _randomly_ selected from
> the large data set.  Equalizing the sample size takes care ofthe
> problems inherent with different sized samples, and the random selection
> avoids the problem of compounding (and potentially confounding)
> interpretation based on the variables selected for matching.
>
Excuse me, but what are the "problems inherent with different size samples"

-phil

--
     J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067
	 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110
     phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - Internet  (314) 362-3617 [362-2694(FAX)]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:10:10 PDT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UVVM.UVIC.CA
From:         Melvin Klassen <KLASSEN@UVVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Test + Archives info request

Bernie Most <MOS@epavax.rtpnc.epa.gov> writes:
>   I'd appreciate learning how to review the STAT-L archives.

To get general information about LISTSERV, send E-mail to any LISTSERV,
(the one "closest" to your BITNET node is 'LISTSERV@NCSUVM'),
and put the following commands:
   INFO
   INFO DATABASE
into the "body" of the E-mail.

To get specific information about the STAT-L archives,
send E-mail to 'LISTSERV@MCGILL1', and put the command:
    INDEX STAT-L
into the "body" of the E-mail.

To actually search the archives, send E-mail to 'LISTSERV@MCGILL1',
and put the commands:

//BernieMost JOB
DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES
//RULES DD *
SEARCH archives IN STAT-L
INDEX
PRINT

into the "body" of the E-mail.
(See the 'DATABASE' document for an explanation of each of these commands.)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:19:48 -0400
From:         RJZ@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      unusual ANOVA design

I am trying to determine the appropriate F denominators for a particular
factor in the following design:

    Y = Constant + fixed + random + nested(fixed) + fixed by random +

          random by nested(fixed)

There is no error term since the data was collected without replication,
i.e., one observation per cell.

The question is, what is the appropriate F ratio denominator for the mean
square for FIXED?  Is it the mean square for NESTED(FIXED), is it the mean
square for FIXED by RANDOM, or is it the pooled variance for both these
terms?  Reference to a good text on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks.


Bob Zambarano
Statistical Services
University of Texas@Austin  78712
rjz@utxvm.bitnet
ccbe001@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Saturday, 26 Sep 1992 10:37:49 MST
From: <ICWAS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Re: Reference for MILITARY STANDARDS on Sampling Inspection

The statndards referred to are probably MIL STD 105D and MIL STD 414.
These are discussed and explained in "Quality Control and Industrial
Statistics" by Acheson J. Duncan.  1986, 5th Edition.  Irwin.
ISBN 0-256-03535-0.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Posted-Date:  Fri, 2 Oct 92 12:10:35 CST
X-Nupop-Charset: English
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:10:35 CST
From:         ccbe001@EMX.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      summary: unusual ANOVA

Thanks to all who responded, and there were many of you.  Here was my
original post:

> I am trying to determine the appropriate F denominators for a particular
> factor in the following design:
>
>     Y = Constant + fixed + random + nested(fixed) + fixed by random +
>
>           random by nested(fixed)
>
> There is no error term since the data was collected without replication,
> i.e., one observation per cell.
>
> The question is, what is the appropriate F ratio denominator for the mean
> square for FIXED?  Is it the mean square for NESTED(FIXED), is it the mean
> square for FIXED by RANDOM, or is it the pooled variance for both these
> terms?  Reference to a good text on the subject would be appreciated.

The first problem was that I did not specify the design clearly enough.
More specifically, the design might be represented as:

 Y = Constant + fixed + random1(fixed) + random2 + fixed by random2 +
                                                 random2 by random1(fixed)

To shorten this, fixed will equal A, random1 will equal b, and random2 will
equal c.

 Y = Constant + A + b/A + c + A*c + c*b/A

Again, data was collected without replication, so no error term is required
or possible.

Because of the two random factors, confounds abound.  Quoting John Vokey,
whose response was particularly cogent, we have:

>The expected means squares, then (ignoring the coefficients):
>
>A: e + A + b/A + A*c + c*b/A
>b/A: e + b/A + c*b/A
>c: e + c + c*b/A
>A*c: e + A*c + c*b/A
>c*b/A: e + c*b/A
>
>For A, there is no single source whose E(MS) differs from A's in only the null
>hypothesis component, so a quasi-F would be in order.  One would be:
>
>A / (A*c + b/A - c*b/A) <-- Note the df for the denominator need adjustment
>
>or, to avoid subtraction (and, hence, the possibility of negative Fs):
>
>(A + c*b/A) / (A*c + b/A) in whichcase both the numerator and denominator df
>need adjustment.

So that's the answer folks.  Thanks again.
**********************************************************************
Bob Zambarano (512) 471-3241 x378
ccbe001@emx.cc.utexas.edu
Statistical Services Group
University of Texas@Austin 78712
**********************************************************************
From: mfdjh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dale Hample)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: a program to sample a distr & report sample means?
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:36:48 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

I'm posting this for a friend who is going back into the classroom after
a long stint in administration.  He used to have a Fortran program for
the following, but the years ate it.  He wants a little demonstration
program that will take any distribution (provided by students, I
gather), take 1000 random samples from it, calculate the 1000 sample
means, graph the original distribution, graph the sample means, and
compare the two graphs (just visually, I think).  This sounds to me like
something that's probably in public domain.  He'll take it in Basic or
compiled.  Any help?  Thanks.
-- 
Dale Hample                            Dept. Communication A&S
mfdjh@ecnuxa.bitnet                    Western Illinois University
mfdjh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu                  309-298-1492
        The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:51:06 ITA
From:         FACCIOLI@ITOCSIVM.BITNET

After my unfortunate message of yesterday (thanks to all the
people that warned me) I'm trying again. I don't know if it
is proper in this environment to advertise workshops and the
likes..anyway I organize LISA(which is a computer laboratory
for advanced statistic  directed by the University and
Polytechnic of Turin (ITALY). In november we are organizing
a workshop DEINDE (DEsign of INDustrial Experiments):
starring prof. WU (UN. of Waterloo,Ontario), Prof Wynn
(City University of London), prof. Collombier (Universite de PAU)
and several other local speakers.
If somebody is interested I wll be glad to send him/her/them
the program
             Gianna
P.S Should he/she/they be interested in the general programs
of LISA I would be equally glad to explain(lately
we held a seminar on Bootstrap with Efron and one on Time Series
with TIAO)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:58:06 EDT
From: <KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: SUDAAN Stats Package

Forgive me if this is not the correct newsgroup for this question, but
I am interested in SUDAAN.  It is a comprehensive survey data analysis
package.  I am primarily interested in the memory load requirements to
run such a package, how much a site license costs, and how I can obtain
the software.  Any leads or comments would be appreciated.

---Kit Aikin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Defeated intellectually, prejudice lingers emotionally."   +
--Gordon Allport (1954)                                     +
Kit Aikin     Dept. of Psychology      Penn State University+
kja102@psuvm.psu.edu   \\\\\ Good Tea.  Nice House.  \\\\\\ +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:46:58 CET
From:         Joop Hox <A716HOX@HASARA11.BITNET>
Subject:      nonlinear individual growth curves

A useful reference is:

Goldstein, H. (1986). Efficient statistical modelling of longitudinal
data. Annals of Human Biology, 13, 129-141.

and:

Bryk, A.S. & Raudenbush, S.E. (1987). Applying the hierarchical linear model
to measurement of change problems. Psychological Bulletin, 101, 147-158.

What these references propose is fitting a linear model to individual data
using exponents for the nonlinear effects, and multilevel modeling to
model differences between individuals. Equal # of observations or
equal spacing are not assumed.


Joop Hox
University of Amsterdam
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Acknowledge-to:    XIC@NIHCU.BITNET
X-Acknowledge-to:  XIC@NIHCU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:42:04 EDT
From:         XIC@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Contingency Tables for Clustered Data

Antoine Morin asks about contingency tables for clustered
data.  I would recommend reading Chapter 4, "Chi-Squared Tests
for Contingency Tables," by J.N.K Rao and D.R. Thomas, in the
book "Analysis of Complex Surveys" (edited by Skinner, Holt,
and Smith, published by John Wiley).  This is an important
problem that is too often ignored in practice.  It has been
the focus of much recent research.

The problem does not go away under equal probability sampling
(with clustering).

from
Michael P. Cohen
Statistical Standards and Methodology Division
National Center for Education Statistics
Washington, DC 20208-5654
Bitnet:  XIC@NIHCU
Internet:  XIC@CU.NIH.GOV
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: NIZARD@FRBDX11.BITNET (NIZARD Alain-F)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: NeXT statistical software
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:15:09 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hi networkers and statisticians!
Two years ago i asked for stat general packages for IBMPC-like machines
I was told that SAS,SPSS,BMDP,SYSTAT were good ones. I do have now SYSTAT
and it is pretty good.
Now our department have got a NeXT station and the version we have of the
stats programs naturally dont work on it. Before we try to buy a new
program on that machine, i would very pleased if anybody could tell us
about experiments of such stat software under NextStep.
Any comment would be welcome.
Thanks. -Alain.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
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Encoding: 25 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 (beta-2)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:52:00 EST
From:         mjk1@CEHIEC1.EM.CDC.GOV
Subject:      HELP - sesudaan (or sudaan) PSUs

Hi stat-l subscribers.
    A colleague of mine has a question I was hoping a SESUDAAN (or SUDAAN)
user might be able to answer.  He is using SESUDAAN to analyze "rare behavior
A" in the Youth Behavioral Risk Factor (YRBS) data set (less than 10% of the
sample exhibit "rare behavior A").  Of those with rare behavior A he is
looking at the prevalence of a second behavior (so those with rare behavior
A make up the denominator).  When he analyzes these data 3 or 4 (or maybe
more) of the PSUs aren't represented at all, especially for stratified
analyses (example:  if he is interested in estimates for white females).  I
believe PSUs consist of a probability sample of over 1900 counties with
probabilities proportional to school enrollment and he has 46 to start.
In addition, I believe counties were stratified by urbanicity and ethnicity
prior to their selection.
    His question is:  are there any rammifications of not having all PSUs in
the original sample represented in these analyses?  How, if at all, does this
affect his standard error estimates?  Is there a need to create dummy
variables for the unrepresented PSUs and assign them a weight of zero (so
that the entire structure of the sample is represented)?   If yes, is
this always the case or does this depend on the number (%) of missing PSUs?
He is doing his analysis in SESUDAAN and getting standard error estimates.
    Thanks in advance for any help you can provide me in the way of advice or
references.

Marcie-jo Kresnow
From: nichols@spss.com (David Nichols)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Re: point biserial correlation
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:26:22 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <STAT-L%92100609551306@VM1.MCGILL.CA> Eileen Driscoll <eileen_driscoll@QMRELAY.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU> writes:
> point biserial correlation
>Hi, Folks.  Does anyone know an easy way to calculate a point biserial
>correlation in either SAS or SPSS? I could do it in a data step using PROC

The point-biserial correlation is simply the product moment correlation
between a continuous and a dichotomous variable. Thus if you have two
such variables, running them through any standard procedure for producing
correlations, such as CORRELATIONS in SPSS (and I'm sure a similar PROC
in SAS) will give you what you want.

--
 David Nichols           Statistical Support Specialist            SPSS, Inc.
 Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet: nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
*******************************************************************************
 Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
X-Envelope-to: STAT-L@MCGILL1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"STAT-L@MCGILL1.BITNET"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:21:00 -0700
From:         "RICHARD Z.THOMPSON" <THOMPSON_R@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>

Greetings,

I am looking for a piece of software for dos-based PCs that does Survival analys
   is
(Event-History Analysis)   I have been told that a company in CA makes one for a
   bout
$45 - $50.  However I don't know more than that.

If anyone is familiar with this product, or something similar, please let me kno
   w (
(I am already familiar with the options in SPSS and SAS)

Thank you

Richard Thompson
University of Colorado
From: MOS@EPAVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Test + Archives info request
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:26:03 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: stat-l@MCGILL1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"stat-l@mcgill1"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


  Aside from using this message to test my ability to communicate with the list,
   I'd appreciate learning how to review the STAT-L archives.
           Thanks in advance.
Bernie Most       MOS@EPAVAX (BITNET)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:23:20 ITA
From:         FACCIOLI@ITOCSIVM.BITNET

put furby msg a
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.license
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:42:50 EDT
From:         "(Josh Rubin)" <jnr@PANIX.COM>
Subject:      license

Please send info about the "license" list to jnr@panix.com.  Thank you.
********************************************************************************
   Joshua N. Rubin    31 E. 31st St. #2E    NY, NY 10016-6806    212-213-5569
   jnr@panix.com         lilj@well.sf.ca.us         70761.2552@compuserve.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:25:55 LCL
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         solrccc@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU
Subject:      Books in Print

I'd like to back up Steve's kudos for SCSI Express.  We have a number of
different products on our CD Server and haven't used MSCDEX or emulator in
any of our installations.  The only product we haven't successfully
installed on our network is Books in Print.  Perhaps someone can give us a
hint.

Thanks,
Cheryl
------------------------------
Cheryl M. Claiborne                            912-681-5269
Learning Resources Center                      solrccc@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu
Georgia Southern University
Statesboro, GA  30460-8074
GSU------------GSU------------GSU------------GSU------------GSU------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Norwegian School of Management (BI)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:10:12 CET
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Knut Winsnes <SYS85001@NOBIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      SCSI Express, NetWare & MSCDEX (a FAQ?).

Hello, as a LAN + CD-ROM beginner i have this question:

Is MSCDEX needed on a DOS-workstation connected in a LAN with a Novell NetWare
3.11 server with SCSI Express?

With  needed  I  mean:  some  CD-ROM   (&  SW)  suppliers  have  MSCDEX  as  a
prerequisite.Is this true in a LAN environment too, or does SCSI Express offer
the   same  "service/DOS-interface"   to  search-software/-processes   on  the
workstation as MSCDEX does?

Any help with this, for me, important question are appreciated.
(Or is this all wrong.....?)

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Knut
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Apparently-To: cdromlan%idbsu.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:02:53 PDT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Dale - InfoServer Marketing Manager - 223-4178 02-Oct-1992 1549
              <rensing@EMDS.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      MESSAGE FOR MARY DUDMAN

Mary,

What type of CDs are you trying to see with the VAX workstations?  Are
they VMS CDs (i.e. those written to work in the VMS environment, with
the ODS_2 file format) or DOS CDs written in either ISO or High Sierra?

Before I offer any explanations, I'd like to let you know that I am the
marketing manager for the InfoServer here at Digital.  This is the first
time I've responded directly to an internet request for information.  I
try to remain as unbiased as possible, particularly for discussions in
such a forum, but since the InfoServer does have a solution, or works as
part of a solution, to your problem, I will mention it.

If you were looking to share the DOS CDs, there are a number of ways to
do it, but each of them requires the VMS system to somehow emulate a DOS
environment in order to run any of the CDs which might have software
retrievel engines that were designed for a DOS environment (meaning that
they have DOS executables).  Logicraft offers a solution which is a
hardware/software solution.  Virtual MicroSystems offers a similar
solution.  You'd have to look at both of them to determine which had the
features you wanted.

There is a way to do it with software emulation as well.  VMS will
recognize the ISO 9660 standard with a layered product called "F11CD".
This provides the recognition capability through the software.  Then
there's the matter of emulating the DOS environment for the executables.
This would then be done through SoftPC software.  This can be used with
the InfoServer system, which would serve the DOS CDs directly to the
PCs.  InfoServer software also contains the F11CD which would be loaded
as a layered product onto the VMS systems.  You'd need to get the SoftPC
separately.

If you are looking to share DOS CDs for PC systems and ODS_2 file format
CDs for your VAXstations, then the solution is real easy.  Both types of
CD-ROMs can be placed on the InfoServer and played directly to that
specific client environment.  But it really depends on what you're
trying to do.

Regards,
Dale
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Content-Length: 939
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:07:47 PDT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         gregb@AMAZON.SANDIEGO.NCR.COM
Subject:      Re: INTERESTING LITTLE QUESTION TO PONDER

>
> I had thought that the theoretical storage space limitation on CD-ROM disks
 was
> around 660 megabytes.  Yes, some have less, but I had never seen one with more
> data on it than that.  660 is also the limit generally found in articles
> discussing the technology.
>
> Today, however, I had a look at the directory of a Compact Disclosure CD-ROM.
> The disc has over 1 Gigabyte of files listed.  Is this a mistake?  There are
> two files (different names) with over 500M each (both are identical sizes).
>
> Question:  D'ya think that Compact Disclosure is doing something strange and
> wild and new?  Is the theoretical data limit higher than we thought?  Is there
> some sort of weird thing happening within our system, or is there some other
> strange thing happening with that particular disc?

I bet it is just a symbolic link between the two 500M files on the disc.

---------------
Greg Bruno
gregb@amazon.sandiegoca.ncr.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)