From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
Originator: clewis@bcarh1d7
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:27:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.173145.28803@ulowell.ulowell.edu> wex@cs.ulowell.edu writes:
>Alright, enough of this stuff

I can't resist! ;-)

>But are there any other folks out there who have (or have had)
>electrician licenses?? My primary contention was that wiring
>a house with 12 GA is harder and take longer than with 14 GA.

>I have heard from a bunch of folks who like to say that there is
>no difference in labor.  (Let them change a tyre on my 3/4 ton
>pickup and tell me that it's the same as on their Toyota.)  I
>would like to hear this from someone who's done a bunch of houses
>with both.

I've wired a bunch of houses.  Call it 3 1/2.  With significant amounts
of wire bigger than 14-2.  A fair amount of 12-2 and 12-3, some 10-2 & -3,
8-3, and a bit of 3-0 and 4-0.  And possibly more 14-3 than some licensed
electricians in the States handle in a year, or a US DYI sees, let alone
handles, in their lifetime.

Cutting, stripping, screw termination of 10ga versus 12ga versus 14ga is the same.
Unless you're using a butter knife.  Maretting 12ga is about the same if you're using
the proper pliers.  Obviously somewhat longer with fingers instead of linesman pliers.

Pulling 12ga isn't noticably different than 14ga.  10ga is hard.  8ga is about the same
(stranded).

Ie: I don't notice a difference between 12 and 14ga.  I do notice between 14 and 10.

Consider this, however, back in the days that aluminum wiring was popular, they
figured that the cost differential between copper and aluminum (modest in those
days) was worth it.  Even though aluminum is not only stiffer at the same
size, trickier to terminate properly, needed more expensive fixtures, but you also
have to go up a size - making it even stiffer.  Thus, the labour cost is not
likely significant, ie: wire cost is the dominent factor. And we know that the
wiring cost differential isn't likely to be more than a couple hundred bucks.

>Anyhow, I strongly prefer 12GA, I (personally) do not like the idea of
>cheap 15A outlets on 20 feeds.

Our codes certainly agree, but ...  By definition, standard wall outlets are 15A.
They may be rated for 20A passthrough (NEC, not CEC), but they're not rated as
20A *outlets*.  20A outlets have a different prong pattern.  (Though, I suppose
the combo 15A/20A outlets are okay (in the US only).  But they cost more do they not?)

>And, depending on the size of your house, $2100 may be realistic.

No, it was clear that the $2100 was actually a second "do the whole wiring"
charge.  You can do all the wiring for a small house for that.

>One last thought (sorry Chris), Wiring with 12 ga should NOT reduce the number
>of breakers needed (in general).  You should have just as many branches with 12
>as you would with 14, the reason to use 12 is to reduce the load on each 
>branch -- if you increased to 12, but also increased the length of each
>branch to save breakers, you would be defeating the purpose.

Are you referring to me?  That's not what I said.  I said that NEC and CEC
has an outlet count maximum per circuit.  In tract homes they'll be largely
maxxed out.  Making the circuit breakers 20A wouldn't help, because you're
still only allowed 10 outlets per circuit.  So you'll probably have the same
breaker count - it wasn't me that suggested that a lower breaker count would
ensue.  Nor are you reducing the "load" on each circuit.  The load's
the same.  The reason to use 12ga in this situation is to reduce lossage, aka
voltage drop aka flicker on startup surge.

>[that's silly, porpoises don't have feet]

True.  I wonder why I never noticed that... ;-)