From: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Debate in a Vacuum!
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:15:27 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681  USA
Reply-To: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
NNTP-Posting-Host: zorba7.larc.nasa.gov

(the next line for hotheads only)
READ THE WHOLE THING BEFORE YOU FLAME

I have been passively reading the posts in this newsgroup for 
sometime. Because of the complexity of the subjects addressed 
here, I went out and bought three books to brush up on these 
subjects. I've read all three in the last two weeks, and 
based on the points that they bring out, what I read here in 
this newsgroup is mostly "pshchobabble" of emotion and very 
little tolerance of others' points of view.

Up front, to let you know my reference points, the three 
books are:

1)  "The Way Things Ought to Be"  Rush Limbaugh (of course!)

2)  "Illiberal Education"  Dinesh D'Souza
     (The politics of race and sex on campus)

3)  "Why Johnny Can't Tell Right from Wrong"  William
                                              Kilpatrick
     (Moral illiteracy and the case for character education)

Any of you that are active in the arguments currently 
threading through this newsgroup would be WELL ADVISED to 
find, buy, and study these books.  Especially the ones by 
D'Souza and Kilpatrick.  As it turns out, Limbaugh's book 
seems to reflect much of what these two authors espouse.  
Those of you who delete these books as a reference (pro or 
con) from your arguments will really do a disservice to the 
complexities and profoundness of the value of the subjects.  
Blind assertions prove nothing, and "feelings" are fleeting, 
at best.  Do not waste bandwidth by name calling and 
pshchobabble.  Learn how to argue your points in respectful 
and forceful ways...AND LISTEN to what others are saying!  DO 
NOT read into a statement what you *think* the other person 
is saying: take them for what they say; not what you read 
into their statements.  LEARN TO DEBATE--STOP ARGUING LIKE 
UNINFORMED CHILDREN!!!

It seems to me that most of the folks responding and 
contributing to this newsgroup are doing so out of anger, 
frustration, and, sadly, very little "life" experience as to 
what is considered in any civilized society to be Right and 
Wrong (caps intended).

I do not want to be misunderstood to be "preachy," but, at 
the same time, I want to point out that there *IS* a place 
for morals and character in society.  And in spite of what 
some will argue, there *ARE* certain human truths that have 
come down to our culture that are as old as recorded history 
and are from many, many cultures.  Some of us call these truths 
property of our various religions, when, in fact, many of 
these truths are borrowed from other cultures and times.  So 
lets stop compartmentalizing these truths into this or that 
dogma.

In spite of what most (not all) of you think, there *IS* such 
a thing as absolute Right and Wrong, Good and Evil, Moral and 
Immoral.  These are concepts that are designed to make their 
transgressors feel uncomfortable, and to deny their existence 
and dilute their meaning bankrupts a society. I am truly 
sorry that the human condition is such that these 
inconvenient concepts are required, but they are.  These are 
NOT relativistic concepts, either. They are hard truths that 
have been verified and reverified down through the ages since 
before the Greeks and Romans!

Please, PLEASE, consider reading these books and begin 
analyzing their content.  I would hope that you who do not 
agree with their premise will post the name of books that 
have an alternate viewpoint.

So, let's have an exchange of ideas and the wisdom to learn 
from each other (and the past) and stop playing...Oprah and 
Phil--THAT'S DEMEANING!!

With deeply held conviction and sincerity...Mike

Mike Rowland (Contractor),  MS 475
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov