HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Paul Hager" <hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: The Clinton Challenge -- ISSUED!!
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:41:39 -0500


	Following is the email I got from Clinton/Gore and my
response.  I'd say there's a 99.9% chance that they'll wimp out
but, hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

	Keep your flensing knives sharpened up, netters.

------------------------messages follow-------------------------


From 75300.3115@compuserve.com Tue Sep  1 15:32:47 1992
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Date: 01 Sep 92 16:27:12 EDT
From: Clinton for President <75300.3115@CompuServe.COM>
To: "\"Paul Hager\"" <hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Clinton/Gore drug war program
Message-Id: <920901202712_75300.3115_CHE104-7@CompuServe.COM>
Status: RO

Paul,

You should call 1-800-FOR-BILL and make your views known.

Otherwise, look for a new position paper or some subtle change in
speeches.  I would not expect a direct personal answer.

Regards,
JPG

-------------------------my response-----------------------------

From hagerp Wed Sep  2 01:24:32 1992
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	(5.65c/9.4jsm) id AA12267; Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:24:28 -0500
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:24:28 -0500
From: "Paul Hager" <hagerp>
To: 75300.3115@CompuServe.COM, hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Clinton/Gore drug war program
Status: RO

Since you've passed my comments on to the "position team" I'm
sure that will suffice as far as my input is concerned.  However,
I was hoping that I might get some feedback on the points I made.
If there is someone on the position team who feels that the
committment to fighting the drug war makes sense then it should
be easy enough to explain why I'm wrong and the Governor is right.

Let me pose a challenge to the campaign.

Pick suitable surogate who can articulate the campaign's position on
the drug war and have this person engage in a one week debate on
the InterNet forum, "talk.politics.drugs."  This newsgroup has
something around 10K to 20K subscribers who regularly discuss drug
policy issues.  I'd wager that an electronic debate could quickly
generate several times that number of readers.  And, it would be 
a first.  The first ever use of the national computer network for
a town-meeting kind of discussion.  Of course, it would only be
a campaign surogate and not the candidate but you folks might be
able to get some media mileage out of it.

If this piques anyone's interest, it would be a simple matter to
set things up.  I think I could promise a intellectually challenging
and stimulating exchange and, who knows, CNN might favorably report
on the Governor's innovative use of high-tech in his campaign.

--paul

-- 
paul hager		hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu

"I would give the Devil benefit of the law for my own safety's sake."
                       --from _A_Man_for_All_Seasons_ by Robert Bolt
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:15202 alt.politics.marrou:959
From: josh@foglet.rutgers.edu (J Storrs Hall)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.politics.marrou
Subject: Re: Crime and drug legalization
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:59:39 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.marrou
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Aug31.193833.17396@infonode.ingr.com>, fisherm@infonode.ingr.com (Matthew Fisher) writes:

> ... the WOD should be halted and drugs made legal.
>     I was discussing the ideas in the article with a buddy. ...
>     He claims that crime will not decrease but will simply shift
> in focus.  Crime would shift from drugs to gambling, prostitution or some
> new field...

The short answer is that gambling, prostitution, and all the other
black markets are also victimless crimes and should be legalized also.

The longer answer is that if you had set out to destroy the culture and
character of America's poor, and drive them into crime, you couldn't 
have done any better job than the past thirty years of left-liberal 
social legislation has.  It's as if our so-concerned friends in 
Washington had specifically set out to make it impossible to make a
living honestly and legally in poor communities.  

--j
From: jdymond@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Jason Dymond)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Nootropics - Ginseng ?
Date: 29 Aug 92 05:36:39 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia

I have recently been taking 1200 mg of powdered ginseng per day, and
have noticed what seem to be fairly significant "subjective" effects re:
cognitive enhancement. I find that I am able to work for much longer
with siginificantly improved concentration span and depth of
concentration. I would be interested in knowing:

1) Has any body else out there tried this, and found similar effects or
others ?

2) Are there any references in the *scientific* (as opposed to pseudo*)
literature to ginseng in this regard.

Thanks

Jason
 
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:15006 soc.culture.usa:6860 talk.politics.drugs:5950
From: orpheus@reed.edu (P. Hawthorne)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Satanic Crime units?? Re: WoD: Frontline Report
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:55:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug25.215528.20211
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR


  pfcouvar@amhux1.amherst.edu (Peter Couvares) writes:
: I'm pro-God, and I don't think you should be allowed to discuss the merits
: or even the alternative of satan-loving on a network that is partially
: government-funded.

  I'm sure the remark was not intended to be a discussion on the merits of
Satanism. Rather, I think it was a gallows-humor observation on modern
witch hunts. Curiously, your post lends a degree of credence to it. (I
have the inglorious distinction of having an ancestor who was a judge at
the Salem witch trials, which somewhat underscores the subject for me.)

  I think you'd have a lot of trouble getting the separation of church and
state, much less the rest of U.S. constitutional law to stick to Usenet
news, U.S. funding notwithstanding. You'll have far more luck imposing your
beliefs on the NEA or on federally funded abortions than here.

  To the extent that one could, however, I would hasten to point out that
your faith would also be deemed inappropriate for discussion. I think some
wiseguy named Voltaire said that God is Satan when he gets drunk. I guess
you can take that a couple ways...

  Theus (orpheus@reed.edu)
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:15321 talk.politics.drugs:6117
From: will@turbo.bio.net (Will Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: The Clinton Challenge -- ISSUED!!
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:54:30 GMT
Organization: GenBank Online Service

>>  I did hear Gov. Clinton use the phrase "To fight a more effective war on
>>  crime". Maybe, by this, he means that he wants to expand the scope of this
>>  internal war to a war on crime in general. But it still doesn't say
>>  anything on whether certain, recreational drug using citizens should be
>>  given legitimate status or not.
>> 

Clinton's views on drug use are in his interview in Rolling Stone.
He does not advocate legalization and proposes boot camps for
first time offenders.
-- 
Will Nelson
Systems Programmer, IntelliGenetics, Inc.
will@presto.ig.com
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:15084 misc.legal:16522 talk.politics.drugs:5991
From: RR04@bunny.gte.com (Rob Robertson)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,misc.legal,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Fort Wayne: Landlords Must Evict Drug-Dealing Tenants
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:17:35 GMT
Followup-To: alt.drugs
Organization: GTE Laboratories


In article <!9bnh=.feustel@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) 
writes:

> Appended to this post is the text of the proposed Fort Wayne
> Ordinance. Note that what this ordinance really implements is a
> requirement that a landlord evict (with attendent expense and risk of
> legal retribution) tenants who are *suspected* of being involved with
> illegal drugs. Failure to comply with this ordinance results in a fine
> of $2500/day. 

> I believe this ordinance tolls the end of three fundamental concepts of
> common law: "innocent until proven guilty", "trial by jury" and "due
> process".

[Proposed ordinance deleted]

I am numb.

I should probably think this out before I post. Nah, let's just rant. ... 
this makes me think of the reaction my German friends have to the term 
'NAZI'. They are not Nazis, their country is not run by Hitler, it's a new 
day, etc... but history is inescapable. A deep inhale, a slow exhale, and 
a little reflection before the topic can joined, but always I can see 
their supressed cringe, the subtle unspoken apology, and the frustration 
at having to apologize for something that they had nothing to do with, 
something which they did not create.

Reading stuff like this makes me feel uncomfortably empathetic.

What will I tell my daughter when she asks me 'how could you just sit 
there and let it happen'? 'Well, gee honey, we tried, ya know. We wrote 
letters to our leaders, we protested, we spoke out to neighbors and 
friends,... I really don't know how it all happened, it just kinda 
happened all at once, from a million different directions, and by the time 
enough people saw it, it was too late to stop it.". 

What kind of reaction will the term 'America' elicit 20, 30 years from 
now? 

I'm sorry. I can't continue this...

Rob

Rob Robertson
GTE Laboratories          (617)466-4144 vox
40 Sylvan Rd.                (617)890-9320 fax
Waltham, Mass. 02254
"There is nothing new under the sun..."
From: jjf@cats.ucsc.edu (Jeffrey John Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: New designer drug
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:10:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


eepee@polaris.utu.fi (Esa-Pekka P{lvim{ki) writes:

>I read about the coming of ketamine ("vitamin K") to conquer the drug market.
>Any base for these stories? Ketamine is an NMDA-antagonist, NMDA in turn is 
>an excitatory neurotransmitter.

>The article (don't remember the journal) stated that ketamine might be taking
>extacy's place in the drug market, although it's effects are quite different.
>Ketamine causes its user to take an inner trip, so it's not much of a social
>drug. Ketamine is also used in pediatric anesthesia, so one can imagine it's
>no stimulant..

>/ep

From what I understand, Ketamine is not that different than PCP.

JJ
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu ()
Subject: Re: New designer drug
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:10:16 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1888qoINNn7q@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> jjf@cats.ucsc.edu (Jeffrey John Furman) writes:
>
>eepee@polaris.utu.fi (Esa-Pekka P{lvim{ki) writes:
>
>>I read about the coming of ketamine ("vitamin K") to conquer the drug market.
>>Any base for these stories? Ketamine is an NMDA-antagonist, NMDA in turn is 
>>an excitatory neurotransmitter.
>
>>The article (don't remember the journal) stated that ketamine might be taking
>>extacy's place in the drug market, although it's effects are quite different.
>>Ketamine causes its user to take an inner trip, so it's not much of a social
>>drug. Ketamine is also used in pediatric anesthesia, so one can imagine it's
>>no stimulant..
>
>>/ep
>
>From what I understand, Ketamine is not that different than PCP.

I second this. Interestingly, J.Lilly (and R.P.Feyneman) used this in his sense
deprivation experiments...

-Scott



Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Yohimbe (MAOI, alpha2 andrenergic antagonist or ??)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.204225.9352@reed.edu> nuke@reed.edu (Bill Newcomb) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.205527.23650@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>That's noradrenergic.
>>First, saying something is an alpha-2 adrenergic antagonist or an
>>alpha-2 adrenergic antagonist is equivalent.  Both carry
>>the exact same information, and neither is incorrect.  Cedarquist would
>
>I doubt you'll get any arguments on this one, Steve. (read it carefully;-)

Whoops.  Forgot my smart drugs on THAT day, I guess.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.war
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Amphetamines in Gulf War (was Re: Vikings etc.)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:26:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.004308.26110@panix.com> tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.111015.23846@cas.org> jac54@cas.org () writes:
>>
>>      There are amphetamines and there are other stimulants.  The
>>      substance is question is probably not amphetamine but something
>
>On the other hand, Special Forces troops in Vietnam were routinely provided
>with amphetamines.  I say this based upon my reading of a number of books
>by former Special Forces soldiers and also the commentary of a friend who was
>in a Ranger unit in Vietnam, who stated that the SF outposts were generally
>"littered with pill bottles", and that he'd personally been given amphetamines
>before two assaults by an officer.  Perhaps in the Gulf it wasn't amphetamines,
>but the US armed forces certainly have given them out in the past.  They've
>used cocaine for the same purpose, in World War II.  I'm not surprised that
>once again, they've progressed to drugs better tailored to their purpose.

	What was in those pill bottles?  I asked someone who has
	also done such things.  Far and away the commonest was APC
	(aspirin-phenacetin-caffeine).  This was used primarily as
	a pain killer (you accumulate bumps, bruises, aches, and pains
	that degrade your efficiency) and they were being popped at maybe
	1-2/hr.  Amphetamines were used, but not that often, they have
	unpredictable effects on behaviour, and for most people home-made
	adrenaline was far and away the most effective stimulant.

	I think you're getting you history mixed up.  The commonest
	stimulant in WWII was benzedrine (amphetamine).  Cocaine doesn't
	necessarily have the effects you want.

	You shouldn't be surprised about stimulants in the armed forces.
	The possibility of their use was discussed quite openly in
	FM-100-5 many years ago.

	Now go and check German Patent DE 2809625 (1978) a publication from a
	French pharmaceutical company.

	Alec.




>>      called modafinil or 2-(Benzhydrylsulfinyl)acetamide.  You can find
>>      out more about it in:
>>
>>      Aviat., Space Environ. Med., 62(5) 432-435 (1991).
From: v129nlgw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (PAUL HOWARD)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Robo
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:43:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug18.132701.7220@linus.mitre.org>, lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes...
>In article <278@nsq.uucp>, amex@nsq.uucp (Toronto) writes:
>>I have read a lot of "experiences" of Robotussen DM (Robo) but I have read
>>no information on how "bad" it may be for you.  I have to imagine there is
>>some reason for me NOT to try it, despite the stories of how fun it can be.
>>
>>I've allocated some time.  Should I?
> 


	Drink robo only if you can't get any acid.  I've roboed about 20 times
in the last six months or so, and I hope I don't ever have to do it again.
That's not to say the experience isn't pleasant, but it's also a little 
unpleasant and not nearly as good as acid.  I'm also a little worried about
it being unhealthy.  I'm also pretty sure it is addicting, based on friends' 
and my personal experience.  
	As for dosage, I've found one four-ounce bottle of Max Str. Cough 
to be ideal.  I once tried two bottles (the second bottle about five hours
after the first), and I thought I was gonna die.  I was violently sick for
at least two hours, and felt real bad for about a day after that.   
	If you try it, be careful not to be too stupid.  Someone already 
mentioned climbing bridges...  Well, don't think that just because you know 
enough to avoid such things while straight, that you won't do them while on 
robo.  I know cause I found myself dangerously high above the road on the 
same night I took two bottles.  Robo can make ya pretty stupid.  

	Well, I've gotta be outta here, so my advice:
Give it a shot, but on a Friday or Saturday night when you don't have to 
be awake any time the next day.  Take four ounces of Maximum Strength Cough, 
and no more under any circumstances.  Be careful.  Don't do it too often.
Enjoy yourself; it's legal (though most people will think you're a nut if you
tell them you did it).

Later,
Paul
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.med,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc
From: carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Alcoholism and the "addictive brain" (was: Definition ...)
Followup-To: alt.drugs,sci.med
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:21:54 GMT

(Yes, this is relevant to sci.med.)

rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes:

>Kenneth Blum and James Payne make the opposite assertion in a new book,
>"Alcohol and the Addictive Brain".
>
>	"A dramatically new understanding of the nature and progression
>	 of alcohol addiction is currently emerging: alcoholism is the
>	 result of an imbalance in the brain's natural production of
>	 neurotransmitters critical to our sense of well being.
>
>	 'Alcohol and the Addictive Brain' is the first account of these
>	 new scientific discoveries, the implications of which are 
>	 important for alcoholics and their families.  Over the centuries
>	 alcoholism has been one of the great medical mysteries, regarded
>	 as the concsequences of everything from disordered family func-
>	 tioning to moral weakness."

Kenneth Blum is the first author of the article "Allelic association
of human dopamine D_2 receptor gene in alcoholism", Journal of the AMA
263 (1990): 2055-60, the results of which were announced with great
fanfare in the media.  Unfortunately, Blum and Payne's book went to
press before the appearance of another article in JAMA contradicting
the results of the Blum study, namely A.M. Bolos et al., "Population
and pedigree studies reveal a lack of association between the dopamine
D_2 receptor gene and alcoholism", JAMA 264 (1990): 3156-60; the
authors are from the genetics section of the National Institute on
Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.  The negative results of this study, of
course, were *not* announced with great fanfare in the media.

I have only skimmed Blum and Payne's book, and one must be a
specialist in the field to evaluate the evidence they present, but
from my layman's perspective I get the impression that their
conclusions are the authors' interpretation of the evidence rather
than an established consensus in the field of alcohol studies.  I also
have the impression that Blum and Payne give the wealth of
psychological and sociological studies of alcohol abuse much less than
their due.

Even before the appearance of the Bolos article, serious questions
were raised about the Blum study.  For example, the gene claimed to be
associated with alcoholism is a dopamine receptor gene, and some
researchers believe that dopamine stimulates the brain's pleasure
centers.  So then what does this gene have specifically to do with
alcoholism?  All kinds of pleasure-seeking behavior (such as eating
and sex) would need to be examined to determine whether this gene is
at work.

Richard Carnes
From: llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: q's abt urine tests not in faq
Date: 26 Aug 92 04:38:35 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

situation: upcoming urine test for "10 most commonly abused
substances" at a local minor emergency clinic. two weeks ago this
friday (which is when the test will probably be), shared a joint at a
party; maybe two or three hits. before that, hadn't done anything at
all for more than a month.

i've read the faq about beating drug tests, but a few questions not
covered there come to mind:

how does the presence of an active bladder infection affect these
tests? would it be better to wait until after the infection is gone or
to do the test now? it's a mild infection being treated at home with
lotsa cranberry juice and water.

the suggestions about drinking water and such are being followed.
about the zinc sulfate: does it have to be zinc sulfate, or will any
form of zinc (eg, zinc chelated with gluconate) work as well?

what otc drugs can cause false positives for pot? any?

anyone have any clue as to what procedure minor emergency clinics use?

id the testee in this case doomed? do pre-employment tests do a
followup in case of a positive? what are the chances of a followup
being positive in this case?

any help, posted or emailed, would be fervently appreciated.


Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: cohen@cumuli.vmsmail.ethz.ch (Mark Cohen)
Subject: New Scientist article on Ecstasy
Originator: mark@agnew
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:29:57 GMT

There is an article in the UK popular science magazine New Scientist
(page 30 29th Aug issue) that may be of interest to readers of this
group. The article deals with the use of ecstasy (MDMA or E) and is
fairly approachable at a general level, giving an introduction to
the mode of action at a physiological level. The following
information was extracted from the article.

An estimated 0.5 million people use ecstasy each weekend in the UK.
    (the article said "this weekend" which I think means the bank
    (ie public) holiday weekend, so 'normal' usage may be lower)
    (thats almost 1% of the total population)

Police seizures in the past few years (implication being since the
late 80's) have increased 1000 fold

Ecstasy is the third most popular drug in the UK after cannabis
and speed

Very little work on the long term or chronic effects has been
done but it is suggested that degeneration of 5-HT releasing
neuronal fibers occurs in rats at a level of 10mg/kg and in monkey
at 2.5 mg/kg. This is extrapolated to a 200mg dose (about twice
the normal) in people. It is explicitly stated that as yet there
is only evidence for nerve fibre damage, not nerve cell body
damage. Without the latter the damage may be reversible.

5-HT, 5-hydroxytryptamine is the neurotransmitter serotonin.

Guesses were made to the possible results of long term use use ie
sleep abnormalities, depression and chronic psychosis.

Figures for UK 1990 drug deaths are quoted.


cannabis             0
lsd                  0
amphetamines         2
cocaine              4
ecstasy              5
heroin/morphine    153
alcohol          30000
tobacco         110000

NOTE (my comment) that direct comparison is unfair because the
"most lethal" drug tobacco probably results in no more direct
deaths than cannabis or lsd. Because it is not illegal people
tend to abuse it to a far greater degree than the other drugs,
resulting in lots of indirect deaths from long term use (ie
cancer, heart disease etc). Before accurate comparisons with
cannabis are going to be made cannabis will have to be
legalized, or tobacco banned.

I am sure the chemistry department I work in will disavow anything I say
especially if it contains any chemical inaccuracies and because I lifted
most of the above from some one elses work
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs