HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjc@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Crowther (MIG))
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Becoming a murderer
Summary: Another view
Keywords: Hmm.
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:49:45 GMT
Reply-To: pjc@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Crowther (MIG))
Followup-To: alt.callahans
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

Peter steps through the door, looking tireder than when he left a few
months ago.

"Hi all. Sorry to come in on such a depressing topic, but I'll throw in
my $0.02-worth, hopefully without causing a soapbox to trip me up.
Believe it or not, I'm also not trying to cause more distress either to
the victims of violent crime or to the people who have to judge. No
doubt I will cause such distress, for which I apologise in advance.

"These are all my opinions. In my opinion, it should be legal to kill
someone yourself, but illegal to cause someone else to do it for you.
In either case, the role of the law enforcers should be limited to
publicising the name(s) of the murderers and murdered sufficiently
widely that others can take any action they feel appropriate.

"This allows the individual members of the State, rather than the State
through one of its instruments, to decide on what constitutes
sufficient reason for murder.

"And, yes, it also allows mavericks to go around killing people. But I
get the feeling that such people wouldn't last long. The general level
of violence would increase sharply, then decrease as the thoughtlessly
violent types were eliminated."

Peter looks down. "Down, soapbox. Oh well, I'll try a different tack."
He climbs off the soapbox and tries again.

"I guess I'm opposed to not being in direct control of one's actions.
As an appointee of the State, an executioner has no such control. As a
member of the jury, the juror has little control over the consequences
of his actions. I find either case, where a person's actions may affect
the life of another, deplorable. But then, that's me.

"Anyway, I'd better get back home. If anyone posts a response, is there
any chance of an e-mail reply too? News expires after a week here, and
I'm off next week...

"No toast tonight, I'm not in that mood after reading Bob's post (and
the followups). And... Bob... all I can say is that you probably did
the best job you could when put into impossible circumstances. My
commiserations."

Peter walks out again. He may not catch news replies, but will catch
e-mail.

		- Peter
--
Peter Crowther, Medical Informatics Group, Dept. of Computer Science,
	University of Manchester, Manchester M13 9PL, England.
Internet: pcrowther@cs.man.ac.uk      Janet: pcrowther@uk.ac.man.cs
"No! Henry! Don't shoot! Toast's out of season!" - 'Min', X-asm 1991.
From: stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: It Was A beautiful Day...
Keywords: Wonders may never cease
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:27:57 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

p65331727@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger) writes:

>	Arty is silent for a moment, then drinks his sprite.  "To 
>women who are really too beautiful to go out with computer nerds, but
>do anyway!"

>	>>CRASH<<

Firecat exchanges a dollar bill for a TLwA. 

"To people with the eyes to see beauty in *all* its forms."

**CRASH**

--    
Firecat            A more intimate theology, and one more consonant with 
Stef              the nature of...love, pictures a demonic force engaged  
stef@apple.com    in continuous creation and participation. - Iris Murdoch
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Subject: Re: Epistemological Question
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-16278]: spop.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 05:10:32 GMT

In article <9204082011.AA07993@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM>, dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.com (Gillett, David) writes:
|> 
|> -----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------
|> no. 6134868 filed 19.59.32  wed  8 apr 1992
|> from dgil
|> to   locun
|> subj Epistemological Question
|> ref  6133621
|> 
|>      I'm trying to put a few thoughts in order, and encountering a difficulty
|> where concepts that seem obvious and intuitive are resisting formulation as
|> clear epistemological distinctions.  I'm hoping that Ray can suggest a way
|> around the difficulty, but copying the group since some of you others may have
|> valuable insights as well.
|> 
|>      My question is this:  I am given a piece of hearsay evidence about an
|> event.  How do I distinguish between History (a record, of indeterminate
|> accuracy, of a 'real' (we're talking epistemology, so those quotes stay for
|> now!) event), and Fiction (an account, of indeterminate accuracy, of an event
|> which was conceived but never enacted)?
|> 

     "Well, the first thing I do, is determine what country ran the
   printing press. If a Roman history told something about the
   Carthagenians, I would read it with a large amount of skepticism;
   however, if I read both the Japanese and the British accounts of
   the sinking of the RN vessel 'Prince of Wales' and they agreed,
   I would feel fairly certain that the accounts were accurate." NickD.

-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
From: JDK116@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: The End to a Great Beggining
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:38:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92097.113816JDK116
Organization: Penn State University

Jack takes himself away from the activities for a moment and clears his throat.

"Well, folks, it seems my time is about to come. The course I recieved this
account for is about to be removed from my schedual, due to a great deal of
procrastination on my part mainly. I'm not sure how long it will take for
this account to be deactivated, so I wanted to say my farewells before it
was too late.

"I've had a glorious time here in The Place. After reading the books a few
years back I had wish it really did exist. I sure as hell have my fair share
of troubles. I was overjoyed to find alt.callahans and have atleast a
virtual manifestation of Callahan's. I thank whomever started this newsgroup
for that.

"More to the point, I'd like to give my thanks and well wishes to all the
Folks who helped me out when I needed it. I've a pretty bleak view of life
and humanity in RL and this place has given me hope that I'm just not
seeing the light about people. You all are really special, if no totally
out-of-the-ordinary!

"I'm not one for saying goodbye, so I will quit now before I get all
mushy. I wouldn't like to break all contact though and as such I'll write
my RL address on the chalkboard. I hope some of you will use it."

And with that Jack goes over to the chalkboard and writes:

Jody Kovalick
29 Maffett Street
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18702   USA

He also gives info on a local BBS he can be found at:

The KEEP BBS
(717)675-4068 8-1-N
1200/2400/4800/9600
Handle: Jack Frost

Jack heads back to the meadow, for a dance with DiDi...

Thanks all...you're great!

Frosty...
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: brian@socrates.umd.edu (Brian Sobus)
Subject: Out of the swirling darkness
Keywords: Newcomer, introduction
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:50:47 GMT

     In the darkest corner of the bar, he sat and watched and listened.  Time 
slowly passed as it is oft to do, but time's passing meant nothing to him.  He
merely waited.  He would know when it was time...
     Months passed, or were they years?  To him, they were both the same, both
meaningless.  Suddenly, a feeling as if two great trains were barreling down
upon each other in a twisted form of "chicken," he knew it was time.
     He stood and parted the darkness.  Eyes from all around the bar seem to 
focus on him, but not quite.  For, as he walked, he seemed to be a demon at
first glance, but then, as you watched, he would change into a long,
black-haired man, and then another form would force its way upon him.  A 
pattern was there, if you looked long enough; few looked that long.  Yet, even
though he was constantly changing, there was a sameness to him.  It could have 
been that sameness came from the raven perched on his shoulder, no matter what
form he took.  However, everyone knew it was something else, something they 
could not put their finger on.
     He stepped up to the bar and laid down a Susan B. Anthony.

     "Mike, I think I'll have a Lynchburg Lemonade...," he said.

     Mike just smiled, nodded, and quickly placed the drink on the bar.

     The man turned, walked to the chalk line.

     "A toast!  To new friends and strange times!"
     
     The man quickly downed his drink, tossed his glass into the fireplace, and
heard a satisfying tinkle.

     "Oh well, the glass didn't break...figures, it's been one of those days.  
My real name is Brian, but I like Raven Silverthorn.  My birthday is April 25,
19xx.  You really don't want to know what the xx's stand for, believe me.  Oh!
Before I forget, my favorite drink is a Lynchburg Lemonade."

     He turns, walks to the chalkboard, and fills in his information.  Deciding
now would be a good time to sit down, he finds a well-lit, empty table, and 
does just that.

-Raven Silverthorn
brian@socrates.umd.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 23:44:13 EDT
From: Abner Mintz <AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Bear's story (or Can't Children be Cruel)
 <1992Apr15.182044.7559@keps.kodak.com>

Pamela / Boo says ...
>I'd bet most of us here have stories from our growing up years of
>being tormented by other kids for being different. It's funny how we
>often talk about children's innocence and honesty, but they can also
>be very intolerant and cruel.

Just this last Sunday I heard my first bit of PDQ Bach on Dr. Demento.
It was a bit about the easter rabbit, done in victorian style, with innocent
little children who gradually let their true nature slip out ... as they
started talking about all the things their evil, conniving little minds had
planned for them to do the next day.  It was hilarious!
I guess it's true ... children are savages.  Maybe that's why I get along with
them so well!      =8)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: tjlee@iastate.edu (Tom Lee)
Subject: Whirlwind World
Originator: tjlee@pv740b.vincent.iastate.edu
Organization: Seven Wishes Lamp Co.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 07:08:07 GMT

	Tom opens the door and walks in *without a coat* (but with an
umbrella) from a dark, rainy night somewhere in Iowa.  He's wearing a
solid black sweatshirt.

	What's this?  You never saw him leave?  Well, that's a pretty
common thing around here ...

	"Hi, Mike," he says, going up to the bar.  "How's it going?"

	"Not all too bad," Callahan replies.  "What's with the black?"

	"I'll get to that," says Tom.  "You know, being gone on weekends
means that I miss a lot of stuff.  Hawke and Frosty leaving, Escorpia
coming back, Michael arriving -- things happen so quickly!"

	"It's better to spend your time with your fiancee," says Mike.

	Tom blinks, asking, "How'd you know that was where I was?"

	"Where else?  Anyway, what'll you have?"

	Tom fishes in his pocket for a dollar and says, "How about a
Manhattan?"

	"That's not your usual," says Mike, taking the dollar Tom
found and busily decocting and concocting.

	"I'll get to that," Tom says again.

	Mike sets the drink before him, saying, "There you go; best
Manhattan this side of ... well, Manhattan."

	"Thanks, Mike," says Tom, who picks it up, and heads immediately
and without hesitation toward the chalk line.

-=> More to come <=-

-----------------------<| "It's fun to be in the same decade with you."
  <=|- Tom Lee -|=>   -<|  
  tjlee@iastate.edu   -<|  -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
-----------------------<|     (in a cable to Winston Churchill)
From: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Week from Hell is Over!
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:10:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Apr13.001014.20541
Reply-To: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA


	Grant starts putting the books, pencils, and papers into his
backpack.  "Well, people, the GRE is over.  I'm kind of glad, but
really scared also.  There was a lot on this test that I didn't know.
I left a few blank, but the general knowledge part was just a killer.

	"I'm not sure how I'll do, but I'm betting not too well.  The
job fair was a complete disaster.  There were about 300 people there,
about 200 of which were PhD's.  Yes, I know I didn't count them, but
for all those statisticians out there, I took a random sampling.  I
talked to a lot of firms, but all I got was, 'We're looking for someone
with more experience.'  Where am I supposed to get this fucking
experience, huh?!?!?!?

	"Well, whatever, it's over, and nothing seems to have changed.
I'm still wondering what to do with the rest of my life, I still have
no good-paying job, and I'm still living at home, which sucks.

 	Grant pulls out a fondue pot and some caramels.  "Well, I think
it's time to relax.  A nice fondue, some books and maybe some TV."
Sitting on the table is a copy of _"I" is for Innocent_ by Sue Grafton
and _The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter_ by Sharyn McCrumb.  "I'm going
to see Sue Grafton on Tuesday, so at least something nice is going to
happen to me."  He then pulls out a TV set and turns it on. (Look, ma
no cords!)  Some creepy music starts playing and a voice says, "A
seance was held at the great house at Collinwood sending one girl
on a terrifying journey back to the year 1795..."

	"Come and watch, if anyone wants to.  Barnabas has just spent
his first night out, and Sarah has just died.  Josette should be dead
in another six episodes or so, the Naomi should be committing suicide
in three weeks.  By then Victoria should be hung for witchcraft.  I'm
biting my nails here people.  God, I love this show!"

	The caramels start cooking as Joshua Collins tells Victoria
Winters he will see her hang.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca  (The Didi-Sprite)
Subject: Re: April Birthdays, forsooth
Originator: braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:22:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.214836.4476@cs.tulane.edu> pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.213714.59@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
>|> In <ktteegINNckl@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> test@peregrine.Sun.COM (Carole Parker) writes:
>|> 
>|> (about the april birthday list....)
>|> 
>|> >This list makes me feel *old*!
>|> 
>|> >I found myself. See? I'm right here!
>|> 
>|> "so," kitten giggles...."HOW OLD ARE YOU?  can you beat the ancient
>|> age of 37....? and i am not even going to talk about how old our dear
>|> nick is    :)....."
>|> 
>
>     "Oh, you kids say the nicest things about us old folks..." NickD.
>
>     :-) :-) :-)   :-)
>
>    "I'm 44, in June I become 45 ! Gee Carole, how old are you ?
>     Can you top that ! Oops, we are shutting down here at Navo,
>     see all of you in the funny papers...." NickD.  :-)
>
The Didi-Sprite, still hunting for Danger Mouse in order to collect
that dance, spins about when she hears NickD admit his age ...
"Well,"  she giggles, "if no-one else is going to say it ... I certainly
am not going to pass up the opportunity ....

"Hey, Nick ... you're just an oldie but goodiie, huh!?!"

[Ouch!  Who did that?]

----<--<@

The Didi-Sprite
Montreal * Canada

braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: More Rhetoric
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 04:52:45 GMT

In article <atterlep.702524824@vela>, atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose) writes:
>
>  Francis, preparing to picnic, says,
>
>  "Harry Harrison had the best solution to the problem of money--eliminate 
>interest.  Money is kept basically the same, but is used mainly in its original
>function as a barter-equivalent.  People buy and sell as before, but they must
>do _something_ that someone considers important in order to continue life at
>their standard of living.  They can no longer make money simply by having it,
>which would take care of many of the inheritance issues.
>  "What do you think?"

Speaker-to-Minerals, who did four years of graduate work in economics, points
out some flaws in this idea:

The Catholic church tried this in the middle ages.  People found ways around
the church's injunction against usury (charging interest on loans).  Interest
serves a number of purposes:
	1)  It embodies the time rate of preference (How much extra consumption
	    must I be able to afford next year to give up a unit of consumption
	    today?)
	2)  It expresses the productivity of capital equipment (How much more
	    can I produce if I limit production today in order to buy a tool
	    that will allow me to produce more efficiently in the future?
	3)  It reflects, in a perfect market (which I admit is certainly not
	    ubiquitous), which uses of capital are judged by the market to be
	    the most productive.
Before you can eliminate interest, you have to find alternative mechanisms to
perform at least these three functions.  If you don't, it'll just show up again
under a different name.  Remember:  In "The Merchant of Venice," usury was
illegal.  Shylock found a way around the law.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Subject: Re: An Introduction
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-16278]: spop.navo.navy.mil
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 06:34:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.083559.8731@midway.uchicago.edu>, mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes:
|> At a table in one of those multitudinous corners a man stands up.
|> He's in his early twenties, of medium height, and his hair and eyes
|> are both brown.  He is dressed nondescriptly casually, save that he is
|> wearing a black fedora, and he carries a black walking stick with a
|> brass knob at the end, which he now leans on.  He tips his hat to
|> Snark and Kateri, and begins:
|> 
|> 	Michael step up to the line:
|> 
|> 	"To civility, decency, kindness and tolerance-- would
|> that every place had so much of it."
|> 
|> 	He tosses the glass into the fireplace.
|> 

     "Welcome Michael ! Alot of us are out in the meadow right now having
   a wonderful picnic. Wont you join us ? "

-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Natural Science, Natural Religion
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:43:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttidca.34618
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Apr9.053605.25556@cco.caltech.edu> lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
}In article <rr8djINN88r@agate.berkeley.edu>, erikred@ocf.berkeley.edu (Erik Nielsen) writes:
}>... I
}>am perfectly willing to accept "Do unto others as you would have them do
}>unto you" as feasible social model on which to base a society, since the
}>statement is merely advice, not necessarily dogma.
}
}... the "Golden Rule" is a license
}for a fanatic to do literally ANYTHING to coerce others into accepting his
}beliefs.  After all, the fanatic can reason, he'd rather have someone take ANY
}necessary steps to enlighten him, rather than have his soul consigned to hell.
}...

But that implies it's ok for someone of another belief system to use _any_
means to coerce the fanatic away from _his_ beliefs.

It's all in the interpretation.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: vad276g@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen McNamara)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: april fool
Date: 2 Apr 92 15:13:05 GMT
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.


   The brumby seems to also be enduring odd weather.

trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:

>kitten glares out her own personal x-window.....it is snowing to beat
>hell....it's NOT SUPPOSED TO SNOW.  it's the first of april....

   "Want to swap? It's been in the high twenties Celsius all week. Supposed
to go over 30 tomorrow. This is of course in what is supposed to be autumn
after one of the mildest summers on record. By now it should be alternating
between vaguely sunny and the usual grey drizzle Melbourne is famous for."

>oh, well....she sighs philsophically...."mother nature sees us all as
>spril fools."

   The brumby grins.

   "That 'Oh well' is one of my usual utterances. And I don't notice that
I'm doing it usually."


-- 
     The Silver Brumby of      vad276g@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (till Apr 13)
      the Silicon Plains           brumby@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au

      The grass is always greener on the other side of the network.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: ablanch@physics.su.OZ.AU (Shonias)
Subject: Re: abortion
Organization: School of Physics, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 01:03:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.134057.14439@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
>
>
>"i think it is because we are in callahans..."

"I have little doubt, I have seen this subject argued in all types of
company, but never with so much respect for the other viewpoint, or 
indeed, with so much logical argument"
 
>[  lots deleted...although good arguments]
>
>"i _personally_ am the result of failed birth control.  i am glad to
>be here and i think my mothere is glad, too.  but that is not the
>point.  the point is that there are some women around who can not,
>will not make the same decision my mother made.  and it must be their
>choice." 

"Hear hear! Yes Kitten, me too! My mother was in a position to make
a life for me, there are plenty of others who are not!"
 
>>"I am suspicious about people who try to make my decisions for
>>me.  People who, for some reason, seem to believe that they 
>>are more qualified to say how I should live my life than I.  

"Yes, I think that is the main flaw in the "third party" option,
no one can possibly say that they are more qualified to decide upon
the taking of a life than anyone else, and I am inclined to believe
that those people whose life it will affect (and who will be responsible
for the new life) are the closest to being "most qualified"."
 

"Thankyou all for such a sane, intelligent discussion"

Shonias

PS That wasn't meant to sound like I was ending the discussion...



--
************************************
I have no need for moonlight
You're wrong to trust in sunlight
For I exist, not just in song,
But in life itself, in so many forms
To leave you cold.
************************************
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sunday, 12 Apr 1992 03:46:36 EDT
From: Abner Mintz <AXM113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: A new wizard.
 <1992Apr10.002555.4814@ucc.su.OZ.AU>

"Well ..." says Tizrak "the globe isn't important.  The only other thing you've
done is your challenge itself, and the evoking of guesses about your magic."

"Since you've made us wonder, I'll say that your magic is to make us wonder!"
From: iborchar@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Reverence Pavane)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Just don't try and stop me smiling.....!
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:00:49 GMT

Congratulations!

>>>>KRASH!!!<<<<


--
Reverence Pavane                                             Like the Dream,
iborchar@physics.adelaide.edu.au                   Is the Life of a Samurai,
Philosoph and Professional Lost Soul                   From which, Awakened,
Former Healer and Dillitante                              No Memory remains.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans