From: sabolps2@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Sabol)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: One more for Mary R.
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:17:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44246
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter) writes:
>
>Christopher then refers to something I say:
>>All this talking is starting to make me feel like I deserve to be
>>treated badly and abused... bummer, since I usually either find
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Christopher writes:
>>Some people enjoy being abused and fantasize quite regularly about
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>someone abusing them (sexually or physically). They do this for a
>>number of reasons, one reason is the form of abuse that was inflicted
>>upon them when they were little, was perhaps the only source of
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>>'attention' that the child received. When that child becomes a grown up
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>>s/he has been conditioned to enjoy the abuse. The 'attention' they
		|||||||||||    ^^^^^
>>received (as bad as it was), to the child, is "better" than complete
>>isolation and neglect. This continues as an adult (particularly during
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>>times of depression).
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>
>
>I'm sorry Chris, maybe you didn't intend it like this, but it sounded
>to me as if you think I *enjoy* being abused.  Nothing could be further
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Even when I first read this, I did not see Chris as speaking to any
specific person.  He was just self-disclosing and THEN when it was said
that he shouldn't feel the way he was, he may have closed up and intelec-
ualised the reasons for his feelings.  He passed them off as a conditioned
responce.  But again, he was not saying that YOU (specific) enjoy being
abused/ever did. He was speaking primarilly of NEGELECTED boys and girls 
who via sex are able to get their narcisistic needs "met."  I know that I
often WANT to be abused again.  Or at least I want to do the things that
I was made to do.  I grew up without a father and am now just realising
all the abandonment I suffered as a result.  Oh well, I found suragate 
fathers by finding mail perps would would "love me."  But again I am not
saying ANYONE else enjoyed the ABUSE...and it is not the abuse per se 
that was enjoyed (although there was physical and some emotional enjoyment)
it was the ATTENTION and the FEELING of being SPEICAL that was enjoyed.
For some there is no emotional enjoyment since perp is OVERTLY emotionally
or verbally abusive!
>
>I don't *think* I am doing psychological damage to anyone - I would

And I don't think that is what Chris was saying.

>Any psychological damage is to myself, and was
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>done many many years ago by someone other than myself, and I was
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>helpless to prevent it

I agree that at the time you were helpless.  However, I just warn you
against using words like ALL or EVERY.  It seems to me that your use 
of such words has colored your thinking so you read other peoples coments
as containing all's and everyones.  I will not say that you are wrong;
however, I would say that there are many behavior, thought, emotional, etc
paterns that we can learn and keep playing out that are damaging to us.
If you have eliminated those paterns from yourself, "WAY TO GO."  HOwever,
it seems to me your msgs says you have not (ie about shame and blame and 
the like).  Keep the pace though!
>
>Thanks to all who affirmed my right to not be abused.  I hope I didn't
>offended.
>
Let, me suggest something you might like to know.  You appologised and
listed hopes not to offend etc.  8 times in the paragraph I deleted.
I don't know what else to make of that.  Just thought I was say it 
was there and let you hear it.  I am sure Chris will be thankful, as
am I, that our feelings as well as thoughs were validated.  That being
that WE have remnants of abuse that we LEARNED to like and that I 
learned to surch out...and this was not a CHOICE it was a pre-consious
force!

>-Andy
Thanks for your post Andy
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery