From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Keywords: do it thineself
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 09:34:05 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

oops!  i killed the attribution by accident!

> >I realize Starhawk follows a Dianic Wiccan tradition that emphasizes the
> >Goddess. I'm male though, and found getting in touch with "the female
> >within" at the expense of "the male within" distastful. One of the
> >attractions of paganism for me is the emphasis on duality, on the male
> >and female aspects of diety, and it seemed to me Starhawk's emphasis on
> >the female were just as bad as Christianity's emphasis on the male.
> >
> > [stuff deleted]
> >Chuck
[stuff deleted]
>
> So what's the deal? Anyone got any ideas? Or are men not allowed to be
> as sacred and holy as women? This is not a chauvanistic, anti-female
> rant, so please don't flame me for that. I got onto this forum to learn
> more about paganism. I have looked into and studied a variety of religions
> all my life, mainly because of my mixed background and utterly confusing
> childhood. You see, half my family are Lutherans or southern Methodists
> of one kind or another, and the other half is Jewish. Try going to a
> Lutheran gradeschool with German teachers and figure what the hell all
> the damned anit-seminism pointed at you is all about.
>
well, from where i stand, men can be as sacred and holy as they want.  but if
there are to be men's mysteries, MEN have to create and support them.  i;m sure
not going to.  what do i know of maleness?  what does starhawk know of
maleness?  most religions are kept going by women, but are run by men and are
in worship of male gods.  wicca and dianism haev a goddess, and are most likely
STILL kept going by women.  so, a female focus is unsurprising, especially
since there are no artificial structures to keep women out of the power
structure.  me, i don't CARE about maleness, men's mysteries, gods, priests,
high priests, heterosexual symbolism or great rites, phallic symbols, male
initiation, etc.  not my thing, not my spirituality, doesn't move me at all.  i
have nothgin against YOU doing it, in fact i think the fact taht men are
acquiring mysteries after all this time is rather nice, but i'm not doign it
for you.  then they woudl be ailsa's mysteries.

people seem to overlook the fact that WOMEN are creating women's mysteries.
women are creating women's spiritualiy.  a lot of work and love and creativity
and time has gone into the quest, and it is OUR grail we are seeking.  we are
not doing spirituality for you, we are doing it for us.  when i write we
ritual, i write one that moves me, that makes ME feel closer to the divine.

if men want mysteries, if men want spirituality, if men want gods and male
symbolism and male initiations, for christ sake CREATE THEM!!!!!!!  women
created the dianic movement because it was what they wanted, what they needed,
something they could love.  if you want a dionysiac movement or whatever, get
to work.
                                                -ailsa

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                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
 I wish her insight to battle love's blindness            ________
 Strength from the milk of human kindness         Silence \      / Action
 A safe place for all the pieces that scattered      =     \    /    =
 Learn to pretend there's more than love           Death    \  /    Life
                                  that matters               \/
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