HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ohdav@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (David OH)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: PBA event
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:56:15 GMT
Organization: HP Singapore Notes-Server

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In rec.windsurfing, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:

    >Sails
    >=====
    >Several protos around, the new ART will have an even floppier leech. The
    >new North race sails have an unusual cut with a big loose leech area. Rumour 
    >is that Neil Pryde will collapse the current Racing and Slalom series of
    >sails into one series. Looks like loose leeches are here to stay. Tip from
    >pros: some people have gone to extremes and are over downhauling,another
    >tip is to ignore the recommended sail settings and experiment.
    >
    >Sukhdev Singh
    >----------

    Sounds like everyone is still chasing Sailworks.  Were any of their
    racers there?

    Kirk out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, I dunno about the chasing Sailworks bit....there were a couple of pros
using Sailworks. General observation from one of them was that the Sailworks
race sails have a better low end but lose out to the Pryde sails on top end
speed. The Pryde sails still look the best built, even the protos. Very little
fuss, no tons of stitches etc. One of the New Zealand sailors, Hamish Bayly,
had  an ex-Dunkerbeck 5.8. A careful look showed the differences between
the top guys gear and production gear; this sail was constructed with small
clew and tack patches,the leech reinforcement was a small kevlar strip,the
seams were stitched only (no tape) and the materials used seemed thinner.
Overall, this sail felt very light,but still looked remarkbly tight and well
built.

Sven Rasmussen made an interesting remark, he said that he felt that the top
sailors were going up to 30% faster now compared to three years ago,purely
due to equipment improvements.

One other thing I left out in my first note: there is now increasing 
specialization amongst hull designs for slalom and course-slalom. The downwind
slalom hulls now have a shorter flat area (about 40" from stern before the
rocker starts lifting up towards the nose). I tried one of these and it feels
really loose...definetely easier to gybe than the course-slaloms with their
long flat.

Rgds
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: heybc
Subject: Re: Ice-boards
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:50:20 GMT

In article <uh311ae.727724264@sunmanager> uh311ae@sunmanager.LRZ-Muenchen.DE
(Henrik Klagges) writes:
>
>IMHO, ice-boarding isn't terribly exciting, and more dangerous than
>windsurfing itself anyway. If I'd go onto the ice at all, I'd  use
>one of the 'DN'-type ice  skaters in which you ly (feet at the front,
>helmet at the back).  They are essentially ice catamarans  with a steerable
>front skater and can reach ridiculously high speeds (World record on a DN:
>150+ km/h). I did it when I was living in the South of Germany, where the
>winters get frigging cold, so that all the lakes freeze. 
>
>DN's need very little wind to go very fast - you reach top speed already
>at 5 Bft (with a sail extremely flattened), with survival difficult at 6.
>The boat speed/wind speed ratio at force 4 is about 400% ...
>
>Cheers, Henrik
Maybe you should try it before condemming it. It is fun. Wear a helemet,
and hockey equipment. Don't go out in too much wind. Plan to travel
20-40knots on 15knots of wind. When you fall you slide a long ways. Don't 
sail where you can hit stationary objects. I almost hit a van while 
travelling 25knots or so because I fell when sailing offwind through an 
icefishing derby 'fleet of vehicles'. Beating you won't go more than
the wind speed. Off the wind 2-4 times windspeed? Air drag is the limiting 
factor.
 
My boards are best described as two downhill skiis attached to the 
bottom of an ironing board with an ice skate blade as a skeg.
Cant the skis slightly so the outside edges contact the ice. A few degrees.
they work on ice, and hardpacked snow, but the transistion from one to 
the other is a bit tricky as the center of latteral resistance moves.
I'm planning to build an ice only board which is like a giant skateboard 
on 4 blades, for more downwind manuverability. A few friends who have
icesurfed think I'm nuts for wanting more manuverability at 35knots of 
board speed.

Note you'll be working with 30-45knots of apparent wind, so use a small flat
sail
PS: a few folks I know that sailed DNs and other iceboats have done 55-70MPH.
   Speed measured by timing known distance on the ice.


Bill Crick
From: srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: RE: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:00:59 GMT
Organization: Industrial Research Ltd., New Zealand.
NNTP-Posting-Host: grv.grace.cri.nz

>When he started moving fast, the ENTIRE board would lift out of the
>water, sort of like a hydrofoil.  The board would clear the water
>by nearly a foot and a half (tail and all)!
>

I had a picture from an _old_ windsurf mag of a hydrofoil board 
sailing, and I think that Auckland University has done some research 
more recently on this, anyone up there confirm/expand/deny?

Must be _very_ interesting steering one, remembering my early 
experiences with a long board when it started to plane with the 
centreboard still down!

How big was the board and how flat was the water?

regards

Bruce

Xref: sparky rec.windsurfing:4578 misc.forsale:36105 pnw.forsale:2631 seattle.forsale:728
From: smithsh@sumax.seattleu.edu (Scott Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing,na.forsale,misc.forsale,pnw.forsale,seattle.forsale
Subject: Forsale: Harvey Shell Drysuits
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:35:55 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu

Hello,

My partner and I received Harvey Shell winsurfing/waterskiing drysuits.
Unfortunatly both are about a half size to small. We have one large
(blue/yellow) and one small (blue/pink). Neither has been used, both have
been stored without folding. The suits sell for about 250.00, we are asking
175.00 per suit. If you have any sizing or other questions please feel
free to contact me.

Regards,
Scott H. Smith
Smithsh@seattleu.edu
From: luigi@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Luigi Semenzato)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: need broken mast
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:25:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: paris.cs.berkeley.edu

A friend of mine (Lex) needs a broken windsurfing mast for some
experiments.  Does anybody have one that they would be willing to
donate to a worthy cause?   Thanks   --Luigi
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:04:10 GMT
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine

In article <1k4fs2INNjos@zephyr.grace.cri.nz> srgxnbs@grace.cri.nz writes:
>>When he started moving fast, the ENTIRE board would lift out of the
>>water, sort of like a hydrofoil.  The board would clear the water
>>by nearly a foot and a half (tail and all)!

>Must be _very_ interesting steering one, remembering my early 
>experiences with a long board when it started to plane with the 
>centreboard still down!

>How big was the board and how flat was the water?

Come to think of it, the guy didn't look to adept at steering the thing.
The board was definitely long; winds were 15 knots and seas ~1' max.

Dan
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: Italian surfers
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:19:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.154310.2070@ghost.dsi.unimi.it> labenrsa@ICIL64.CILEA.IT writes:
>am I the only italian guy subscribed in this group? If not please reply me.
>Bye Stefano.

So what? I'm probably the only one from the Dominican Republic but I 
don't mind since we all enjoy the same thing, getting high on windsurfing!

Adios.




-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ngs@nyquist.bellcore.com (Ned Stoffel 21374)
Subject: Downhauling
Reply-To: ngs@bellcore.com
Organization: Network Technology Research Lab, Bellcore
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 13:26:54 GMT

I have never had problems getting enough downhaul tension.
In fact, I ripped two large Pryde sails by over-tensioning
the downhaul. I always set the sail up so it pivots on the
clew end of the boom, and then I pull on the downhaul. This
almost doubles the mechanical advantage for downhauling, and
it also allows me to use two hands to downhaul. If you use
this method, you will never have to use those downhaul Gizmos.

Be sure to point the sail head downwind before you set it
up on the clew. The reason it works is that the force you
apply by pulling down on the downhaul causes a reactive force
(remember your physics?) upward on the boom. This force
helps bend the mast, reducing the force needed on the 
downhaul line to do the job. This works best if there is a
pulley at the bottom of your mast base which allows the
downhaul to be pulled smoothly in the direction shown.
I have a 6:1 purchase on my mast base, but I downhaul using
only the first two pulleys, since the last loop has a cleat
rather than a pulley. Even with the 4:1 purchase I get this
way, it is easier than the conventional method using the
6:1 purchase. Anybody else use this method?

 --------------------------|----------------
  \                        |             / |
    \                      |            /  | pull straight down
      \                    |           /   | 
        \                  |          /    V
          \                |         /
            \              |        /
              \            |       /
                \          |      /
                  \        |     /
                    \      |    /
                      \____|___/
                           |
___________________________|__________________________________

Ned
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Subject: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:48:36 GMT

I went out this past weekend and saw the oddest windsurfer: it had
four long, thin skegs coming from the the bottom, two near the
stern, two near the bow.  (Actually, this is only an approximate
description because I was a little too far to make it out exactly.)

When he started moving fast, the ENTIRE board would lift out of the
water, sort of like a hydrofoil.  The board would clear the water
by nearly a foot and a half (tail and all)!


Does anyone have an idea what this thing was?

Dan
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Downhauling
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:16:01 GMT
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD

Ned, where do you put your foot for downhauling?  On my sails, I try to
have the foot (of the sail) almost touch the pulley and I use a pulley
that ends at the end of the mast base.  I don't see how you'd hold the
mast while pulling.

I find starting with 1/2 downhaul then 6 inches of extra outhaul and then
down haul again works well. (followed by releasing the outhaul, of course).

Kirk out
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: Question: Layline
Originator: news@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:24:17 GMT

In article <1jnnc7$3gk@DIALix.oz.au> atr@DIALix.oz.au (Australian Technology
Resources) writes:
>Hi there,
>
>can anybody out there in netland explain what a layline is,
>and what they are used for?
>
>I think they have to do with approaching markers but I'd like to know more
about them.

In racing around the buoys, there is typically a "weather" mark (buoy) that is
directly upwind from the start of the race. You can't sail directly upwind so
you must tack back and forth to get to it, at some angle from the wind
direction (say for argument 45 degrees). So the laylines are two imaginary
lines drawn between the weather mark at 45 degrees fro the wind direction (as
you face the mark), or 135 degrees from the wind direction - remembering that
we're always talking about where the wind is coming FROM, not where it's going
TO. So when you reach the layline your apparent wind angle (relative to the
wind) and heading to the mark "match" and you can now "lay" the mark or get to
it without tacking anymore. So the laylines will be different for different
boats or boards and conditions, all depending on how "close" to the wind you
sail ( how close to straight upwind) and of course their position in absolute
terms (over the "bottom" or fixed coordinates) will shift if the wind shifts.
Hope this helps.

Will.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: bcwebb@watson.ibm.com (B. C. Webb)
Subject: Re: Weird Windsurfer/Hydrofoil Thing
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:40:07 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: bcwebb@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1993Jan25.212729.20515@bnr.ca> Heybc writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.144836.16027@newssun.med.miami.edu>
>dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) writes:
>>I went out this past weekend and saw the oddest windsurfer: it had
>>four long, thin skegs coming from the the bottom, two near the
>>stern, two near the bow.  (Actually, this is only an approximate
>>description because I was a little too far to make it out exactly.)
>>
>>When he started moving fast, the ENTIRE board would lift out of the
>>water, sort of like a hydrofoil.  The board would clear the water
>>by nearly a foot and a half (tail and all)!
>>
>>
>>Does anyone have an idea what this thing was?
>
>I've seen ads fro hydrofoils you clamp onto a board.
>Two Pieces: A single V foil on the front,
>and a pair of side by side V's on the back.

I talked to somebody who had a hydrofoil board about 8 years ago. He said
it was disappointing, it did start to fly in about 12 knots of air but
at higher speeds it tended to become unstable as one end or the other
hopped out of the water on even small waves. It's possible better
foil designs have helped since, but there is always a conflict between
enough start-up lift and the need for less lift and drag at speed.
The guy said the board ended up no faster than a regular board with a
narrower weather range.
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: uh311ae@sunmanager.LRZ-Muenchen.DE (Henrik Klagges)
Subject: Re: Ice-boards
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:37:44 GMT


IMHO, ice-boarding isn't terribly exciting, and more dangerous than
windsurfing itself anyway. If I'd go onto the ice at all, I'd  use
one of the 'DN'-type ice  skaters in which you ly (feet at the front,
helmet at the back).  They are essentially ice catamarans  with a steerable
front skater and can reach ridiculously high speeds (World record on a DN:
150+ km/h). I did it when I was living in the South of Germany, where the
winters get frigging cold, so that all the lakes freeze. 

DN's need very little wind to go very fast - you reach top speed already
at 5 Bft (with a sail extremely flattened), with survival difficult at 6.
The boat speed/wind speed ratio at force 4 is about 400% ...

Cheers, Henrik

From: short@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Nancy Short)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 00:42:46 GMT
Subject: downhauler
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

Hello! I've been thinking of buying the new "flip-n-easy"
advertised in Windsurf mag.  It is a mast extension with a
lever you use to downhaul the sail.  It is supposed to be
very easy to use.  Does anyone have one?  Do they work as
advertised?

-Nancy
From: atr@DIALix.oz.au (Australian Technology Resources)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Question: Layline
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:49:43 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

Hi there,

can anybody out there in netland explain what a layline is,
and what they are used for?

I think they have to do with approaching markers but I'd like to know more about them.

Thanks a lot
Peter
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Fins
Keywords: fin,blade,ninja
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:07:24 GMT
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine

In article <1993Jan25.211358.15699@vitsemi.com> hedges@vitsemi.com (Dave Hedges) writes:
>Here is my limited spinout characterization of 3 fins 
>(all pointers) including a blade fin.
>
>  H3:  I can't say this is any more resistant to starting
>  to spinout than the stock Bic, but instead of a sudden
>  dump I get a long mushy sideways slide.  Once this starts
>  I haven't been too successful recovering from it.  It's
>  so frustrating that I think I prefer the Bic's "short,
>  sharp shock".  This fin did teach me to shock absorb
>  the chop to keep it in the water, to steer around, and
>  to bear off, bear off, bear off.

This sounds exactly like my experience with an H-2.  I'm trying out
a couple of Ultra fins that are supposed to hold better.

Dan
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Costa Rica ???????
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:46:40 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1k21jjINNg73@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> davos@engin.umich.edu (Alexander Slingeland) writes:
>
>Has anyone had any experience (good or bad) in Costa Rica. I heard from 
>a non-board head that it didn't look very good, but I am probably going

Well I'm no expert, having never been there. However, the mags talk about
a big lake in teh middle of Costa Rica which is generally ragerded as 
excellent sailing.

The coast however, seems to get little write-up. A friend just returned
from a year in Guatamala and said the coastal sailing was non-existent. Don't
know how this applies to Costa Rics though.

Jim Munro


Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown)
Subject: PHYSICS OF FINS
Organization: University of Miami, School Of Medicine
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:06:00 GMT

I'd really like to know how a fin works:

	i) a force diagram of its lateral resistance
	ii) the fluid dynamics explaining how it creates 
	lift (is this just an application of Bernoulli's
	Principle -- Law, whatever, where faster water
	flow occurs at the top of the fin, slower water
	flow at its point?)

Anyone know a technical reference to this stuff?

Sincerely,

Dan

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu)
Subject: Re: vanity plates
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:16:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.161537.29982@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral) writes:
> A few years ago we had a discussion about vanity plates. I'd like to
> bring it back to compile a list of choices. My birthday is coming up
> in a couple months and I'd like a set for my wind mobile. I'm looking
> for 7 chars max including spaces (no punctuation) Here are a few to 
> start us out. 
> 
> HI WIND
> MO WIND
> JIBE IT
> NUKE IT
> 40KNOTS
> LOOP IT
> BIG AIR
> WND SRF
> 
AIR TYM
AIRTIME
AIR TIM (You gotta paint an E on the bumper though or everyone keeps
         askin' "Who's Tim?".  This is mine in CO and since I was
         painting on the bumper anyway, I added the rest "Gotta get some...")
LOOPING
WYNDSRF
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cris Hannu                       |  Windsurfing the high country.
Cray Research, Inc.              |
@NCAR - Boulder, CO              |         ^           ^
cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu        |        / \ ___)___ / \ 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: hedges@vitsemi.com (Dave Hedges)
Subject: Fins
Followup-To: rec.windsurfing
Summary: Fin experience
Keywords: fin,blade,ninja
Organization: Vitesse Semiconductor
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:13:58 GMT

Here is my limited spinout characterization of 3 fins 
(all pointers) including a blade fin.

The fins: 
  1) Stock fin on 1991 Bic Adagio.  This looks like a black
     plastic, molded clone of the FinWorks H3.
  2) FinWorks H3 (sale $49).  White, Glass and polyester? 
  3) Rainbow "Blast" (.2) blade fin ($89).  Pale green,
     G10 epoxy/glass laminate.  Before using it, I scraped
     off the thick "Blast" logo paint, sanded the whole fin
     lightly with 600 grit wet and went over it with 0000 
     or so steel wool.  

Conditions, etc.:  Coyote Pt. in 4.7-5.0 winds.  Moderate
  chop (I'm working on planing jibes, so this translates to
  "damn chop").  Adagio (8'9") with footstraps and fin in
  forward position (haven't gotten around to moving them
  back yet).  Me--175lb.

Comparison:  Bic:  Fairly spinout resistant, but when it 
  does go it's a sudden and complete release that dumps
  me in the water right away.

  H3:  I can't say this is any more resistant to starting
  to spinout than the stock Bic, but instead of a sudden
  dump I get a long mushy sideways slide.  Once this starts
  I haven't been too successful recovering from it.  It's
  so frustrating that I think I prefer the Bic's "short,
  sharp shock".  This fin did teach me to shock absorb
  the chop to keep it in the water, to steer around, and
  to bear off, bear off, bear off.

  Blast blade:  This fin is definitely less prone to spinout.
  Furthermore, when it does start I'm often able to pull the
  tail under me, bear off and recover.

I may be able to go faster and point better with the blade,
but even if I couldn't the spinout characteristics are 
good enough to justify the price for me.

Stopped by Windsurf Warehouse last weekend and saw a new
fin called the "Ninja"(Don't know the mfg.).  It has a
carbon inner mat covered with G10 and was about an inch
wide at the tip.  Salesperson said it would retail for
about $65 (sounds cheap for a new hi-tech blade).  Anybody
else see or hear about this fin?
-- 
Dave Hedges        hedges@vitsemi.COM  Standard Disclaimer   Ninja 600R
W (408)730-3666    Bic Adagio 8'9",Calypso 10'6",Mixed sails,One blade fin
H (408)773-0108    _______________________________________________________
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:50:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Fins
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD