From: silver@fraser.sfu.ca (Craig Silver)
Subject: Re: Calcium/Magnesium
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:19:37 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <silver.724547658@sfu.ca> silver@fraser.sfu.ca (Craig Silver) writes:
>>This is a message I sent to the man who wanted more information
>>(cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts)).  If you'd like
>>me to go into it more, let me know and I'll tell you what I know.

>You mean you'll repeat some very fringe theories of Jim Moon, eminent
>crackpot, SFU.

I've heard this kind of discription of Moon from someone else.  You
seem to be quite worked up about it.

>>So you might ask why not take some "vitamin D" pills to absorb more
>>calcium?  The answer is a big NO.  The reason is that when this
>>hormone is consumed it goes into the chylomicron and into lymphatic
>>circulation (just like how the body handles consumed fats).  The
>>problem with this is that it *doesn't* go to the liver and kidneys to
>>get converted into the proper form of the hormone (the proper form BTW
>>is 1.25-dihydroxycholecalciferol).  In it's improper form, it actually
>>sends calcium to the soft tissues, like the arteries, instead of the
>>bones.  So North America's problem is actually not that we don't have
>>enough calcium in our bodies, but that the calcium is distributed to
>>the wrong body parts.

>This is highly questionable.  In non-toxic doses, calciferol is
>metabolised quite normally and does in fact get converted by the
>kidney into an active form.  Calcification is only a concern in
>toxic overdoses.

So the question is then, what dose is toxic?  Whatever the dose was in
Britain, it was toxic for them.  I think it's a good idea to
suppliment everybody in order to reach those few (or maybe not so
few?) who need it IF AND ONLY IF the supplimentation isn't toxic for
those who don't need it.  Can we agree on this?

I have been told that vitamin D is very potent and is 3 - 10 times
more potent when put in milk.

>>So in making sure you get enough calcium, I would strongly suggest
>>buying dairy products that are not fortified with "vitamin D" (that
>>is, if you buy them) and watch your calcium:magnesium ratio (2:1).

>Nonsense.  I would hope this person would continue to drink dairy
>products which are fortified with vitamin D to obtain her calcium.
>It is not necessary to look for additional supplements of the vitamin.

This is where I don't think you followed me because I never suggested
that one "look for additional supplements of the vitamin".  Where did
you get this from?

>>Sorry I couldn't help with the forms of calcium.

>Right--after all this, all you could offer is a misleading harangue
>on vitamin D, when that wasn't even her question.  God--does this
>Moon guy brainwash everyone into sounding exactly the same, and to
>repeat themselves at regular intervals?  It's ridiculous.

No, that wasn't the question, although the subject of vitamin D is
relivent to the original question (calcium) and I had something to
offer.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  I also don't see why
you feel the need to cut me down to size ("all you could offer is a
misleading...").  As I said above, I'm not authority and am certainly
open to your opposing views.

>And this fixation on calcium/magnesium ratios is really anal retentive.
>People should try to eat a balanced diet, and if a woman thinks she
>isn't taking enough, some kind of supplement, such as calcium carbonate
>or calcium lactate or gluconate is not a bad idea.

I'd go half way with you.  If a woman (or man - I believe the one who
had the original question was a man) thinks she has a deficiency, I
would suggest going to a doctor and finding out.  As much as it's
dangerous to not take enough vitamins and minerals, it can be equally
dangerous to take more than enough of some vitamins and minerals, and
getting some sort of professional advice seems to be less risky than
just going ahead and supplimenting, IMHO.
-- 

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Craig Silver	           Computer Science at Simon Fraser University
silver@sfu.ca (Internet)   Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition