HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nyh@joseph.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Also from Today's Israeline/Settelments [Livni - please note]
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:02:01 GMT


From today's Israeline

==================================================================
Plan to Reclassify Development Areas Formulated to Cancel Benefits
for Settlement in Territories

Today's YEDIOT AHRONOT reports on a new plan being formulated in
the Ministries of Finance and Construction and Housing to cancel
most of the benefits granted in development areas. The paper
asserts that the current tendency is to reclassify all the
development areas and thus completely cancel the benefits being
granted to Jewish settlers in the Territories -- especially in
places not defined by the Government as security areas. Officials
in the Finance Ministry estimate that a decision to cancel a large
portion of the benefits and exemptions presently granted, will save
the national treasury about one billion New Shekels.
==================================================================



Jake - so were there or were there not incentives? [see an argument we
had few month ago].


-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:13:18 GMT

In article <24245@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.125638.11263@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>=>In article <tqmm=lm.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>=>> 
>=>> I see Yigal Arens public posts have become just as offensive as some
>=>> of his recent emails to me. He's now on my kill list, right next to
>=>> mutlu and the Neo-Nazis.
>=>> 
>=>
>=>OK. 
>=>But, why you suppose that we have to know who is in your kill list and 
>=>who is not?
>=>You do not have the obligation of readinig anything, that is your privilige.
>=>But, why the advertisement?
>=>This is like the list of people who has decided not to answer to ARF. 
>=>Do not answer or put him in your kill file, but that is YOUR personal 
>=>desicion. Who is or is not in anyone kill file has nothing to do with 
>=>the politics in the Middle East.
>=>By the way: Are you going to put me on your kill file, was I already there?
>
>The main qualification for entry in Sternlight's kill file seems to
>be posting something which threatens to undermine the delicate house
>of cards that constitutes his "opinions". I'm afarid it isn't a very
>exclusive club - sorry to disappoint you!

Unfortunately, the only house of cards between you two is your opinions,
Henderson.  Not his.  


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:46:42 GMT

In article <22002@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>
>Is it the contention of Mr. Hed, and Mr. Ben David before him, that the
>Palestinians are supposed to take for granted that Israeli court orders
>will be obeyed by the religious/nationalist fanatics in question, and
>that if not, then the Israeli police and/or military will successfully
>enforce such orders?

The investigation has shown [if I read it correctly] that there wasn't
sufficient military forces to enforce the prdictable 'neemaney har
habait' [how do we call 'em in  englizi?].  So I will not argue with
you there.  What is the link between the said fanatics and the Haredim
praying at the Kotel?    Do I need to repleat the "Hershele and the
lost dime" story/joke?  They had no bussiness throwing rocks at th
etotally unlinked Haredim below.

>Certainly even you guys can recall very many actions taken by settlers
>and their friends that were contrary to court orders, laws, military
>commands, and government decisions.  Many of these were retroactively
>accepted and even supported by the authorities in question.  Need I
>mention examples?

I just remember the "GASHASH"'s peice on the 'mitnachalim' but please
tell me what is your point - Golda was told that the Arabs will invade
on Yum Kippur - yet she didn't do too much to protect us or prevent
it. 

>I don't think one has to accuse the Palestinians of duplicity or malice
>just because they took some defensive measures against a known plan by
>Jewish extremists to foment trouble in the mosque area.  And nobody
>denies that such a plan did in fact exist.


	DEFENSIVE???  What are you nuts?  what version did you see?
the extended dance version?  [sarcasm]   The action or the lack
thereof on behalf of the Isreali authorities WRT the fanatics is more
of a side issue.  I challange you to show how these measures were
defensive - and in more details:  how throwing stones on a third party
will protect you from the 2nd party.  While you are at it tell us whta
you would have done if you were one of the said border guards.

	thanx
		The Nevster
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chermfss.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Reply-To: hernlem@chermfss.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:40:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.003235.14540@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
(Jake Livni) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.173903.11971@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >What has Israel done? -- agreed not to build a number of settlement that
> >weren't even started or weren't even contracted for yet and announced
> >accelerated settlement in East Jerusalem!
> 
> Now that the settlement issue has been "won" by the Arabs, don't start
> with "But it isn't significant, yet".  The Arabs have been clamoring 
> that this was terribly important, with their best friend James Baker
> calling settlements "the greatest obstacle to peace in the Middle East".
> (Is this the same James Baker that shipped all those high-tech death-goodies
> to Saddam?  And Israeli settlements are the greatest obstacle to peace???)
> 
> And I haven't heard anything about accelerated settlement in Jerusalem.

I believe I read about this in the Christian Science Monitor. I don't
recall the date; probably last week sometime.
 
[stuff deleted]

> >Syria has done, unilaterally I might add, what Israel has screamed
> >should be done for so long -- disarmed the Palestinian fighters in
> >Lebanon and brought "peace" to the bulk of Lebanon. Let's see a little
> >give from the Israelis in response to this action; perhaps at least
> >ceasing its bombardment of villages and attacks outside of its
"security" zone.
> 
> So Syria is given a free hand in putting down the Palestinean Intifada in 
> Lebanon and Brad cheers them on, only to change the tune when Israel takes 
> the slightest action in dealing with IT'S Intifada.  More Brad/Ali 
> even-handedness.

From the standpoint of Israel's security, Israel should be pleased with
this development. You may remember that last summer Israel took
advantage of the situation to go in and bomb the Palestinians to make
sure that if the Syrians and the Lebanese army weren't successful at
getting rid of the Palestinian heavy weaponry, they would. Has it not
been a long standing complaint of Israel that the Lebanese have not
assured them that they would not harbor people who are at war with
Israel? Lebanon, with the help of Syria, has accomplished much in that
pursuit. They have done what is in Israel's interest. You refuse to
recognize that (some who have responded to my post still believe that
Katyushas are falling inside Israel and that Palestinians are launching
them!!). I do not cheer the excessive influence of Syria in Lebanon and
I wish that the Lebanese would be free to exercise their own
sovereignty, however, Israel is bombing, rocketting, and shelling
Lebanese villages because the inhabitants refuse to accept occupation
peacefully, not because they are attacking Israel.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Jordanian Editor/Jurnalist
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:46:10 GMT



2 days ago I heard on BBC-WorldService an interview witha Jordanian
Jurnalist regarding the peace talks and he said that Israel woz
occuping Jordanian land.


If the Jordanians Palestinans cant agree on who's land it 'spose to be
- how can we move on this one?  Or did I misunderstand the man's
claim.


		-Nevo


and with a recent ['bout a year old i'd say] Israeli song [my
translation-excuse the lack of rhyme] we will end today's brodcast
from Radio Free Wosta :) 


JUST LIKE YOU / Shalom Hanoch.
 
 
A Strange man is your enemy - Just as you
Suddenly he wants to be - Just like you
Suddenly he gets up and faces you
Insisting to survive
 
You know that the man - Just as you
Isn't in any hurry to suicide - Just like you
And it is no wonder that he fights
Fear has got him too
 
This is your enemy
This is your enemy
Just as you
Just like you
 
Maybe he is addicted to something - Just as you
And cannot break away - Just like you
Afraid that one day he might stay 
just with the habit
 
This is your enemy
This is your enemy
Just as you
Just like you
 
Overall also he is flesh and blood - Just as you
Doesn't believe anyone - Just like you
And he could be your friend
If you give him a hand
A strange man is your enemy
loneliness got him too.
 
This is your enemy
This is your enemy
Just as you
Just like you

-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Inter-Arab Politics
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:33:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Those who are surprised by the discussion between Jaber and Mohammed,
in which Jaber makes some (incorrect) assertions about Ajami, and
Mohammed reacts somewhat strongly (his language verges on flaming
and he ends up putting Jaber in his kill file), are seeing some
typical Inter-Arab political discussion. Actually, for the genre,
Jaber is positively inoffensive, and Mohammed somewhat mild.

Students of such matters are not as surprised at the rhetoric
used by some Arabs against Israel in this discussion. It takes
some doing, I imagine, for people used to such forms of words
to adapt to the less grandiose style of discussion of such matters
among most non-Arabs.  (But note the interesting exception in the
style of Soviet rhetoric during the height of the cold war, or
more recent Chinese rhetoric. Perhaps "running dogs of capitalist
lackeys and hyenas" does not translate well into Arabic.)

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
From: michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger)
Subject: Re: U.S. territories vs. Israel territories
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:59:17 GMT
Originator: michaelp@mylla.ifi.uio.no


In article <serdar.712543528@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au>, serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:
> In article <1992Jul29.143532.1796@oakhill.sps.mot.com>, 
> diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz) writes:
> 
> > I would like to raise an issue of comparing U.S. territories vs.
> > Israel territories. To be more specific I will use the Island
> > of Guam in the South-East Pacific ocean.
> > 
> > * The people of Guam are U.S. citizens, but they have NO voting power
> >   in the presidential election.
> > 
> > * The people of the W.B. & Gaza are NOT Israeli citizens and have
> >   no voting power in the Israeli elections.
> > 
> >   Could somebody explain why is it O.K not to have presidential 
> >   voting power in U.S. territories?
> 
> It is quite easy to raise a strawman and then shoot it down. There doesn't
> seem to be widespread opposition to US in Guam. If there is, please
> enlighten us.

I am no suppoter of israel occupation in the territories. But I am sure, without even checking it that the people of Guam never invited U.S. there.

the issue of "widespread" oppsosition is therefore pointless in such a case
It is the principle that matters. U.S is there because it suits its interests.


> 
> In Israel's case the issue is one of invasion, expulsion and widespread
> repression. This pseudo-comparison just does not wash.

It is no pseudo-comparison. I agree with it, and suppose there may be
found better examples of U.S following its interests although somebody
gets oppressed. But I totally agree that it does not wash.

>  
> > -Rafy
> 
> Serdar

Michael

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:25:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.214214.28503@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
(Jake Livni) writes:

|>In article <22045@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens),
|>while trying to convince us that former Israeli Prime Minister
|>Yitzhak Shamir was actually a Nazi collaborator, says to Allan Stein:
|>
|>>[...] -- one can only speculate about what kind of self-hating
|>>neuroses would cause a Jew like yourself to repeatedly come to the
|>>defense of someone who voluntarily offered to fight on the side of the
|>>Nazis.  
|>
|>If the Israelis allowed a Nazi collaborator to run their country
|>for years, their political system is even more warped than Syria's
|>or Iraq's.  Somehow, this doesn't credibly appear to be the case.

The British allowed Harold Macmillan to rule them for years. At the end
of WWII he collaborated in the forcible `repatriation' (many were not
originaly Soviet nationals) of the cossack prisoners of war to be
massacred by Stalins troops in the full knowlege of Stalins intentions.
Thus your contention that democraticaly elected heads of government
cannot be collaborators with mass murderers is false.

It's quite amazing what skeletons turn up in the cupboards of the sort
of people who get into such places. 

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:53:58 GMT

In article <4571@daily-planet.concordia.ca>, ilyess@athena.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul21.141541.25878@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
|>  
|>  	Either this is not true, they sliped up at least once, or it only
|>  applies to within a certain time frame.  I know someone who was born
|>  in Jerusalem and in their passport the country of origin is Israel.
|>  Now, this might apply only to those born after 1948, since the
|>  individual I know (my best friend's mother in law) was born prior to
|>  that.
|> 
|> what is really happening here is the U.S offering lip service to the
|> Arabs and the rest of the world while in practice obeying all orders 
|> that come from the Israeli lobbey.
|>  
|>  	At any rate this whole argument is ridiculous.  It is not for
|>    anyone else to determine what another country declares is its
|>    capital.
|>  --
|> 
|> That is why you should not object if Palestine  (or even Jordan) declares 
|> Jerusalem as its capital!

	Whew... Now you've done it.  Before I thought you were just a paranoic.
Now I realize that you are an idiot as well.  So let me remind you of a few
facts:  
	1. Jerusalem was NEVER an Arab capital
	2. When Transjordan annexed Jm, the capital stayed in Amman
	3. There is no country called "Palestine"
	4. If "Palestine" can claim Jm as its capital the state of "Bozonia"
	   can claim Mecca as its capital.

	So please, as I've asked you before, go see the nearest mental clinic.
I'm sure that Montreal has several fine ones.

	Elya
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 04:47:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Hallam-Baker's description of what my e-mail to him said is both false
and a violation of netiquette--one doesn't publish e-mail without
permission.

But what do you expect of someone like him?

Further discussion by e-mail, please.

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.waterloo.edu (id friedman)
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:18:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.173903.11971@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>In article <1xhmrlb.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David
>Sternlight) writes:
>> 
>> Despite this announcement, Syria has said it won't do anything in
>> return. Since it takes Syria for the Arab Boycott to be cancelled,
>> this is tantamount to saying that won't happen.
>
>What has Israel done? -- agreed not to build a number of settlement that
>weren't even started or weren't even contracted for yet and announced
>accelerated settlement in East Jerusalem!


 The Arab countries promised the end of the boycott for the stopping
 of settlements. Israel has agreed to the latter.

> 
>> How long will it be before the State Department realizes that
>> Assad is a bloodthirsty fascist dictator bent on territorial
>> conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls?) and that both
>> we and the Israelis will eventually have to fight him? Baker
>> needs to have his head examined if he thinks he can get Assad
>> to be cooperative voluntarily.
>> 
>> -- 
>> David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
>
>How long will it be before the State Department realizes that the
>history of Israel has been one of a blodthirsty nation bent on
>territorial conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls? or Gaza? or
>the Golan Heights? or the West Bank? or Jerusalem? or the land seized in
>the '48 war?)?

 The 1948 war was caused by Arab countries not accepting U.N resolution
 and attacking Israel.

 The 1967 territories were taken in a defensive war ( according to U.N).

 P.S Resolution 242 calls for return of territories for "just and secure
     borders"

 "Lebanon" is practically all in Syrian hands.

If Israel is so hell bent on conquest, why did it return all of Sinai
( with oil fields and militarily important buffer zones ) for a promise of peace
to a country which, LITERALLY, promise to destroy it only 10 or so years
beforehand.

>
>Syria has done, 
unilaterally I might add, what Israel has screamed
>should be done for so long -- disarmed the Palestinian fighters in
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Lebanon and brought "peace" to the bulk of Lebanon. Let's see a little
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just like Iraq brought "peace" to Kuwait.

By democratic and non-violent means, I imagine. Had Israel tried bringing
"peace" using Assad's Hama methods, the world would scream bloody murder.

By the way, Syria doesn't seem to care if terrorists from "peaceful"
Lebanon try to infiltrate into Israel through the south.

>give from the Israelis in response to this action; perhaps at least
>ceasing its bombardment of villages and attacks outside of its "security" zone.
>
>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) 

Ishay
Newsgroups: alt.fan.limbaugh,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:06:44 GMT

[Drivel by arf = Schmidling deleted].

Barfie, in your own words, lets "get serious, man". You have in the past:

1) Written a "humoristic" song, calling Jews "Hymies".

2) Called for boycotting Kosher food.

3) Supported the B-CPU's neo-Nazi, calling him "an amazing young man"
   and hailing him as your successor.

4) Mocked the Holocaust, using temrs like "holocause" and "holomanics"
   which are insulting, degrading, and taken right out of neo-Nazi
   propaganda.

5) Supported and lead a crusade for David Duke and the NAAWP.

6) Insulted Homosexuals.

7) Insulted MLK.

8) Insulted both women and Jews by suggesting someone who had an
   argument with you to "find a nice Jewish woman and screw your
   brains out". 

There is more, but that is enough to show what you are: a racist,
antisemitic, Nazi-sympathizing asshole. Your pathetic attempts
to justify the above - "it was a joke" "It is my right as an
American citizen" - suck.

I may add that you refer to yourself as a "great mind" and as the
"lighthouse of truth and wisdom". As someone wrote me, your picture
of a "lighthouse" looks more like something else, which "Hymies"
sometimes call a "schmuck".

You have become obsessed with your hate and paranoia towards Jews
and Israel that you don't live in the real world anymore. The
only thing you care about anyone, be it a politician or a media
person, is if he hates the Jews and Israel or not. If he does, you
support him; if not, you either slander him/her, or claim that 
he/she is being silenced by the almighty Zionist conspiracy.

You label anyone who disagrees with you as either a "Zionist"
or a "cuthzpanazi" (you have used these terms to describe people
who are critical of Israel, and cannot be described as "Zionists"
by any stretch of imagination; but it is typical of facists
to lump all their opponents into a single category).

Your repetitious, bombastic, tiresome, hysterical rantings are
only a sad testament to your pathetic personality and character.

You breath hate, drink hate, and eat hate. Unfortunately, you
also shit hate - right onto usenet.

Nobody needs you, Barfie. Go away.


-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:48:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.002206.92461@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>
>				.
>				.
>				.
>
>   They were WORSHIPPERS who arrived for prayers, when they came out there
>   was a large band of Israelis passing out leaflets and chanting to 
>   destroy the Mosque.  It started with yelling...I don't even know about
>   rocks.  But they were yelling, police came in, holed the Muslims up 
>   above in the courtyard, and all hell broke loose.  More than 20 Muslims
>   were killed.  NO Israeli's were killed by any rocks or anything else
>   on that day.
>
>I was under the impression that the Jewish radicals ('neemani har
>habayit') were not allowed anywhere near the Temple Mount that day.
>Was there another group of radical Jews on or near the Temple Mount
>upsetting Muslims going to or from prayers?  Could someone else please
>confirm or deny Sandra's recounting of the events?
>
>--
>Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu

I spoke with some people who had been there at the time and who had
taken (private) videotapes.  What upset the muslims was that there
were Jews below praying.  Sandra is all wet.

Hillel Markowitz        H_Markowitz@att.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast