HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Date: 7 Oct 1992 17:03:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct7.052108.21391@u.washington.edu>, twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
|> 
|> [I wrote:]
|> >People do say things like "I didn't enjoy it, but I know it was
|> >good"; I regard this as an example of the willing submission to
|> >authority which made Fascism possible.
|> 
|> Well, I don't enjoy Joyce Carol Oates' writing, but I recognize 
|> that it's good.  I trust this doesn't make me a National Socialist. 

No, just a collaborator.  :)

|> (Joke, Vance)  I'm not submitting to authority here, but really 
|> do believe she's a good writer -- accomplished storyteller, complex, 
|> subtle, masterful use of language -- but I find her boring.

Now of course I realize I was being extreme, but I think it's worth
our while as readers to ask, "So how accomplished a storyteller can
she really be, if she doesn't make me want to read to the end of
her stories?"  Isn't the possibility of judgments like this the
result of a fallacy of reification -- the isolation as a thing of a
distinct "skill" like storytelling?

|> But I would stoutly maintain that she is a good writer.  

Thought experiment: is a good writer imaginable whom *nobody* would
want to read?

|> For someone else. 

No doubt, given her sales....

	Vance
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:19:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct7.225314.15396@morrow.stanford.edu>, BL.JYC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jon Corelis) writes:
> In article <92007@netnews.upenn.edu>,
> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct6.222648.14265@klaava.Helsinki.
> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
# ##                                                     The LA riots
# ##were just one more example of the general putrefaction.  But, of
# ##course, most of you lot don't live in America, but safe and sound
# ##in your Ivory Tower.
# #
# #
# #Vacationing in Yugoslavia this year?  How about Belfast, then?
# 
#    Actually, I remember reading somewhere that the homicide rate in
# Belfast, including all deaths from political violence, is lower than the
# homicide rate in most large American cities.

Probably.  Fortunately, most Americans live in civilized places,
not big cities.

And yes, I'm purposely distinguishing "civilized" in the sense
of "non-savage" from its root meaning of, "living in cities."

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: JURGEN -- James Branch Cabell
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Oct7.230203.5625@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:00:36

Jurgen has a very good god - one you would really like to know, although
you mightn't pray to him with much confidence.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Stuttgart bookstore
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:38:23 GMT

This is probably a long shot, but does anyone know of an English language
bookstore in the Stuttgart (Germany) area?

    Thank you,
    Stephen Guthrie
From: rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us (Rachel M. Kadel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:48:15 EDT
Organization: Princeton High School, Princeton, New Jersey

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

> Now here we have the makings of one of the better threads in years.
> Good books which are just too damn boring to read. I would certainly 
> include Charles Prolix Dickens, a lot of the Shagger Pagger, all of
> Milton, &c., &c.
> 
> Lets go!
> 
> 							Fido

Charles Prolix Dickens??  Too _boring_ to read??  Heck, I'm one of the 
poor suffering high school students people are trying to protect from 
Shakespeare, and I've enjoyed a lot of Dickens since I was a tot (7 or 
8).  His Christmas stories (_A Christmas Carol_, _A Cricket on the 
Hearth_, etc.) are very enjoyable light reads, and _Oliver Twist_, along 
with _Great Expectations_, _Nicholas Nickelby_, and _David Copperfield_ 
until their respective protagonists grew up, were among my favorite 
childhood novels.  Did you, Fido, perhaps have an unfortunate experience 
with _A Tale of Two Cities_ in your youth that permanently scarred your 
attitude toward this admittedly prolix, but enjoyable author?

                                            Rachel M. Kadel

There's an infinite number of monkeys at the door wanting to show us the 
script to Hamlet they've worked out...The school won't even LISTEN to me 
, much less let me speak for it...rachel@phsbbs.princeton.nj.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:43:13 GMT

Fiona, you are apparently not alone with your bumpersticker woes. A
recent article in either the Times or Boston Globe Sunday business
pages chronicled the decline of the bumpersticker.  Two reasons were
adduced: one, people won't use 'em because they're afraid the're on
forever (not true any more, as your example proves); and two, people
sporting bumperstickers repellant to certain cretins were finding
their cars attacked. I am happy to report that a certain rough
equality of opportunity still prevails as aggrieved Democrats and
Republicans both reported vandalism.

Keith

--
Keith Morgan		 |I've always had a secret desire to harangue
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu  |a crowd of people for 10 hours in the
		         |sweltering heat. It's the origin of my
		         |fascination with public language.
From: samuel@shemp.cs.wisc.edu (Samuel Bates)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: WANTED: "The Profit" by Kehlog Albran
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:24:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.samuel.719173488
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.111959.4719@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> harish@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Harish Devarajan) writes:
>>Hi all.  I'm looking for the book mentioned above ("The Profit" by
>>Kehlog "Arguments with furniture are rarely productive" Albran).  Was
>>recommended to me by a friend, but he doesn't have a copy, and
>>(surprise) neither does MIT, where I happen to be.  Does anybody have
>>a copy I can buy ?  Or know where I can find one, in the Boston area ?



>The book you're looking for is called THE PROPHET.  It was written 
>by Kahlil Gibran.  (Kehlog Albran sounds like the name of a popular 
>breakfast cereal.) 

>--Barbara 

I think he got it right, actually; _The Profit_ is a parody of _The Prophet_.
I first heard sections of it from a Unitarian-Universalist minister; it's
very funny, especially if you've read the original.
							--Samuel Bates
							  samuel@cs.wisc.edu
From: c60b-2hz@web-2f.berkeley.edu (Nathaniel Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Date: 13 Oct 1992 23:41:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: web-2f.berkeley.edu

Do fictitious movies count?  I just read this morning Armistead Maupin's
new book "Maybe the Moon" is about a dwarf actress who played the title
role in "Mr. Woods"-- a fictitious "E.T."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Book on time management?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:32:19 GMT

I picked up a book titled "Procrastination" a few months ago, but I
haven't gotten around to reading it yet, so I can't say whether or
not it would be useful.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Keywords: Morgenstern, Garp, Trout
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:57:36 GMT

In article <1bfvnuINN5mt@bigboote.WPI.EDU> kat@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Flame's Passion) writes:

>I probably should have asked this the first time, but has anyone read anything
>else by Byatt. If so, did they measure up to _Possession_ (or if you didn't
>read that) what was your opinion of it?

I enjoyed her novels THE VIRGIN IN THE GARDEN and STILL LIFE (the first
two parts of a projected tetralogy) very much. I enjoyed THE GAME rather
less.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I can solve this Orient Express thing without
mnemonic@eff.org| breaking a sweat. It's that simple."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Hercule Perot
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:45:44 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)

In article <8OCT199214401544@zeus.tamu.edu>, spb0457@zeus (SubGenius) writes:
>Interestingly enough, I seem to have really enjoyed most of the books
>folks are pooh-pooing in this thread.

I've noticed the same thing.

>				        (Especially _A Confederacy Of Dunces_...
>since when is this a "difficult" book?)

I think they were bored with it.  I for one found it funny and touching.
Perhaps knowing a real-live Ignatius helped.

The part I can't figure it is why anyone would have trouble with Par
Lagerkvist THE DWARF.  What a gloriously nasty book, short and sharp.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
In-reply-to: ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu's message of 7 Oct 92 18:41:59 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<9710@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> <BvrCGL.12B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Oct7.174258.3636@raven.alaska.edu>
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:01:31 CDT

Eric J. Olson writes:

   the one that
   really killed me was Kuhn's "landmark" book in science, _On the Nature
   of Scientific Revolutions_ or some such.  I was supposed to read it
   for a class; I couldn't even get through the first chapter without
   skipping paragraphs randomly.  He just drones on and on, repeating
   himself for page after page without making much of a point.

Actually he's making a relatively simple (to describe) but deep and
powerful point about the nature of change.  Once you get his schema,
further description might seem a bit redundant.  Kuhn's work has
inspired lots of theory in other fields, I suspect including Stephen Jay
Gould's concept of "punctuated evolution".  (I have to defend this book
as it's one of my all-time favorites.  The title is "The Structure of
Scientific Revolutions".)

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:58:34 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct9.173625.6908@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <12677@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Consider yourself fortunate that's all that being done.  A friend of
# #mine was driving back from San Francisco.  A man drove up next to
# #him, and, apparently expressing his feelings about the Bush/Quayle
# #bumper sticker on my friend's car, proceeded to mouth various 
# #obscenities.  My friend smiled back, and said, "Have a nice day!"
# #The raving lunatic then picked up and waved a handgun at my friend.
# #Fortunately, the nice Highway Patrolman two cars back saw all this,
# #and pulled the raving Democrat over.
# 
# I take this story as a disproof of the commonly asserted proposition that
# Democrats are opposed to the Second Amendment's guarantee of the right of
# the people to keep and bear arms.
# 
# Mike Godwin,    |"Liberty resides in the rights of that person

1. That many gun control nuts own firearms themselves, doesn't make
any statement about their belief in the right of the people.  There
have always been elitists who believed that laws are only for "the
little people."

2. About 60% of NRA's membership are Democrats.  Even some Democratic
politicians support the Second Amendment.  (Even rarer, some are
flaming liberals like Rep. Jolene Unsoeld).
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:40:58 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

Mark Taranto writes 
> >As for Kuhn -- the book is THE STRUCTURE OF SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION.  It
> >isn't that Kuhn repeats himself -- it is that he uses the same word
> >(paradigm) to mean many different things.  I don't think much of him,
> >either.  I would hope that people who are put off by Kuhn do not think him
> >representative of the Philosophy of Science in general.  I've liked much
> >of what I've read in the field, other than Kuhn.
 
Are you begging to be asked what you've read in the field you liked?  Very
well, I beg you:  Tell us what your nominees for fine books on the subject
are (and cheering words on Churchland's *Neurocomputational Nonsense* are
particularly sought).

Rage away,

meg


-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Once I put this book down, I could not pick it up again.
Summary: gotta scream and shout it
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:20:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

lewis.h.mammel..jr writes...
>ictus \'ik-tus\ n [L, fr. ictus pp. of ICERE to strike; akin to Gk
>AICHME lance]: the recurring stress or beat in a rhythmic or metrical
>series of sounds.
>"Sometimes I think they're doing it on purpose"
>Lew Mammel, Jr.
+------------------------------------------SubG---------------------------+
Yeah.  I know what you mean.

"All this `ick' theology sounds fishy to me."













Yours etc.,




SubGenius, FRCS
(Fellow, Royal College of Sturgeons)
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Not exaclty a repentance....
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:16:03 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

In article <=fjpzn#@lynx.unm.edu> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.172021.22180@cmcl2.nyu.edu> cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Nancy Cruz) writes:
>>Uuuggghhhh!  I am glad your enjoying it.  I found that period the most
>>pedantic, boring...

Swift was also in the Augustan/Neoclassical period.  Farce was a popular form
of the times.  Newton is considered to be in this period (according to our 
prof).

-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.railroad
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Subject: Re: A Subway Named Mobius
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:16:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.195818.15611@ils.nwu.edu> blum@news.ils.nwu.edu (Daniel Blum) writes:
>"A Subway Named Mobius" took place in Boston, and the extra-dimensional
>nature of the system was ACCIDENTAL in that story.  A great story - I
>suggest reading it while listening to "Charlie on the MTA."      
>
>
I first encountered the story in Clifton Fadiman's anthologies "The Mathematical
Magpie" and "Fantasia Mathematica".  Also included were Martin Gardner's short
story "The No-Sided Professor",  a selection from "The Sinister Researches of
C.P. Ransom", and many other stories and  poems with a mathematical flavor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim Szeliga	 Org:National Weather Service / Hydrologic Remote Sensing
Voice: (612) 725-3259  			NOHRSC BBS:  (612) 725-3230  (8N1)
UUCP:	apple!netcomsv!frost!tim		Internet: snow@netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
"My words are nearly always an offense.         | Robert Frost
 I don't know how to speak of anything          | from
 So as to please you.  But I might be taught,   | "Home Burial"
 I should suppose.  I can't say I see how."     |
From: c60b-2hz@web-2a.berkeley.edu (Nathaniel Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: SEARCHING FOR A BOOK TITLE
Date: 16 Oct 1992 16:35:41 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: web-2a.berkeley.edu

Nobody responded to my last post which means probably nobody read it which
means probably nobody is reading this which oddly gives me a sense of
comfort as though I can say anything and waste band-width to my hearts
content and nobody would notice.  So I will choice to point out that my
favorite children's books when I was about 8 years old were the
"Tales of my Father's Dragon" by Ruth Stiles Gannet:
	"My Father's Dragon" was published in 1948 followed by
"Elmer and the Dragon" in 1950 and "The Dragons of Blueland" in 1951.
The were all rereleased by Random House in 86-88 but may be out of print
again.   They're wonderful books and highly recommended for the 6-10 crowd.
They haven't dated at all and were actually environmentally ahead of
their time.
-N
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Dashiell Hammett
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Red Harvest
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:47:48 GMT

>In article <1992Oct5.224337.5642@oracorp.com>, harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:

> Now, can anyone tell me what the insult "fish eater" from the same book
> means?

I believe that the Koreans and Japanese used "fish eater" and "meat eater"
as racial references for each other.  I think the insult is in the implication
of the body odor resulting from the type of foods their diets consisted of
(Japanese - fish; Korean - meat).  At least that was how it was explained
to me years ago by a Japanese friend.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Exit Shakespeare....
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:25:26 GMT

Matt Brown writes:

	On another front, I always wondered why Shakespeare never 
	did anything with the Arthurian legends in play form.

You mean something sylvan like, maybe,

	Under the greenwood tree
	Who loves to lie with me,
	And turn hos merry note
	Unto the sweet bird's throat,
	Come hither, come hither, come hither:
	Here shall he see
	No enemy
	But winter and rough weather.

				As You Like It

Also, as I like it.

							Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:08:19 GMT

I think Mark Taranto made a good point, and I'd like to follow it up with
a list of my own:

>      I can see this is good and I like it;
> 
	AS I LAY DYING-William Faulkner
	THE SECRET AGENT-Joseph Conrad
> 
>      I can see this is good but I don't like it;

	DAVID COPPERFIELD-Charles Dickens
	MIDDLEMARCH-George Eliot

>      I can see this is good and, though at present I don't like it, I
>      believe that with perseverance I shall come to like it;

	THE AMBASSADORS-Henry James
	FINNEGAN'S WAKE-James Joyce

>      I can see that this is trash but I like it;

	MIDNIGHT AT THE WELL OF SOULS-Jack Chalker
	John le Carre novels

> 
>      I can see that this is trash and I don't like it.

	Anything by Piers Anthony
	Anything by Tom Clancy

Some of the categories fit better than others. Since I am an English grad
student, I think the most pertinent are the first two categories. I know
I hate most Romantic poetry, even though I recognise its value. Trash I 
generally don't have time to read. Difficult works I know in a cursory 
way I leave for classes; one is dead in the water starting Finnegan's 
Wake without someone standing over you and making you read it.

Other categories might include:

Works you liked when you were younger, but don't like now.

Works you didn't appreciate until a professor explained them to you.
etc.

Michael Wise



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: 1992 Nobel Prize
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:07:00 GMT

In article <Bvu87M.Itw@wsrcc.com>, alison@wsrcc.com (Alison Chaiken) writes...
>This is a subtle and entertaining play about racism.  It makes several

Now I wonder how much of his stuff deals with racism as a theme.
This could be an instance of the Nobel committee calling attention
to a theme, rather than a country, as their choice usually does.

And if Walcott is "the finest poet writing in English," as one
followup said, then we can answer the question posed in another
thread, "If there had been no Shakespeare..."
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: James Bond
Summary: never mind!
Keywords: James, Bond, Fleming, Charteris, Saint, spy
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:44:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct9.202846.18998@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr) writes:
> In article <1b1vq3INNa08@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, saint@cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Ira Bodenheimer) writes:
> > The James Bond Phenomenon
> > By Leslie Charteris
> > 
> > Published in the December 1965 issue of Diplomat magazine.
> > 
> > .................................................  I mean the type of 
> > clanger which has a sailor talk about "getting to leeward of the stink" 
> > when he means he wants to get away from it; .........................
> 
> Hmmm. Wouldn't a sailor naturally make this type of generalization?
> At sea, literally "getting to leeward" would be the only available refuge.
> In a perhaps more complex landlocked situation, any refuge at all
> would be equated to the unique nautical alternative.

Ooops! "leeward" should be "windward" is all.





Lew Mammel, Jr.