HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rcook@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Robert Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Shallowness in TLM, BATB (Was Re: Cheap Animation)
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:45:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec17.020025.18807@news2.cis.umn.edu> avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:
>"Kevin J. Chen" (kc2w+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
>
>No, more like typical Disney meddling with the original story.

Wasn't there once a thread about Disney's lack of originality?
IMHO, Disney does an admirable job of *adapting* existing stories to
the screen.

>[some text deleted] perhaps you should read the original
>stories THE LITTLE MERMAID and BEAUTY AND THE BEAST were based on.

Why?  To compare old written works to modern movies?  I've read both
of these stories.  They are quite drawn out (in typical fairy tale
fashion) without a whole lot happening.  They are good tales, not
good movies.

The original Little Mermaid was pretty shallow, romance-wise.  She
fell in love in much the same manner as Disney's Ariel.  That
spiritual thing (an immortal soul) the mermaid also pursued probably
wouldn't work, in general, with modern movie audiences--Disney
apparently realized this.

For a fairy tale, is there really anything all that shallow about
Disney's Beauty and the Beast?  She falls in love with Beast *before*
he is transformed, remember?  The "handsome prince" he became is
virtually a necessity--it's what audiences expect.  Whatever his
looks, he has to be human to get past that inter-species relationship
hurdle.  Works for me!  It also apparently works for the "original"
tales (in this case, I refer to the 18th century French versions).


- Robert Cook
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:6957 rec.arts.anime:27296
From: emartine@digi.lonestar.org (Edgar Martinez Martinez)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:49:01 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Dec15.140355.3530@nic.csu.net> ramberg@futon.SFSU.EDU (James Ramberg) writes:
>In article <DAN.92Dec15135001@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu> dan@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter) writes:
>>Hitoshi Doi mentions the fact that the reason that "girls with big
>>guns" are perceived as popular is that most Japnimation fans either
>repeated use of the "J" word throughout article:
>
>the credibility of your comments here would be greatly increased if your
>refrain from using the J word ( which is considered inapropriate) and use
>anime.
>

I'm new to Japanese animation so... are you serious? Why is the word
"Japanimation" considered inappropiate? "Japanese Animation", "Japanimation",
sounds good to me, all they are are animated films made in Japan...For that
matter, why do they call it "anime" and not just "cartoons" or "animated
films"? How the heck do you pronounce "anime" anyways? Did I miss a joke
somewhere?


Edgar Martinez                UTArlington Co-op program (Great!)
emartine@digi.lonestar.org    DSC Communications Corp.  Plano, TX
b645ZOA@utarlg.uta.edu        University of Texas at Arlington
"My bathroom fan goes out straight into my living room"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Perception of Japanimation
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 15 Dec 92  04:14:56

 BB> I still fail to see how bad anime can hurt the animation industry.  Do
 BB> bad movies hurt the film industry, bad TV shows the 
 BB> television industry,
 BB> bad books the publishing industry, or bad 
 BB> net.postings the internet news
 BB> hierarchy?
 I can see where bad anime can hurt the animation industry... It is because
animation isn't quite established here in this country (despite the 3 recent
Disney animated films) and if we continue to allow trash like "girls with
guns" and bloody violence to continue.  It will turn off many people to
animation and you could be looking at an animation drought.  Put it this way, 
you mentioned TV... Well all the BAD TV shows the last several years has hurt 
TV in general (MORE people are renting videos and going out to movies instead 
and TV viewership is WAY DOWN).
 Well if bad animation were to continue, wouldn't you say that viewership of
animation would be WAY DOWN?  
 

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:00:48 GMT

In article <BzGorz.Gy3@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho) writes:
>
>Are there any instances of two (or more :) ) men indicating their
>preference for each other in anime?
>
I think so. I'm not that knowledgable in anime , but I do remember looking 
through anime magazines and seeing such things as big-eyed yound bishonen
men walking down the beach, arms around each other, one resting his head
on the other's shoulder..

So I suspect there are cases of this.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:38:22 GMT

In article <BzA7qK.E50@jrd.dec.com> doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi) writes:
>In article <n118ct@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
># > that did things that suggested she was a lesbian!!!!!
>#  U> Big deal.
>#  BIG DEAL???  Oh boy, so now let's have lesbianism in animation!!  We have
># already gone far enough have we???
>
>I think you have a major misunderstanding of where anime fits in.
>It is just another entertainment media.
>
>Just like there are TV series with humans in them for babies, kids,
>teenagers, college kids, adults, seniors, the same exists in anime.
>There is no difference between TV series and movies with human actors
>and anime series and movies with anime characters..
>Why should there be any difference?
>
>Doesn't lesbianism exist on American TV?  It does in Japanese TV
>and it does in anime..  There's no problem.

Are there any instances of two (or more :) ) men indicating their
preference for each other in anime?

CKC
>
From: rcook@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Robert Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: ANIME VS. DISNEY was Re: Cheap animation
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:27:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu

In article <1gi2blINN7i2@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> bartmann@cs.tu-berlin.de (Ralf Acktories) writes:
>
>How can japanese animation hurt the animation industry ?

*IF* the Anime that trickles over here is bad, then people may
generalize that all animation is bad.  That's the argument.  It's
different with cars (in your example) because people need to buy
cars anyway--they can simply dismiss animation, and THAT would hurt
the industry.  Now, I don't personally believe that Anime has or can
hurt the industry in the U.S.--look at Disney's success.

>Animation quality (even if it could be measured) can never be an indicator
>for plot, story or subject quality.

That's right, but I think it takes both good animation and a good
story.  The medium is what makes animation animation--all films have
stories, whether good or bad.  Story is more important, though, IMHO.

>I am missing mature and modern storylines in [Disney's] works and there is
>no arguing about this point.
>One recycled storyline is followed by the other in the recent Disney
>movies - I am still waiting for a Disney movie dealing with urban decay,
>overpopulation, war, mass destruction and the dangers of a high-
>-tech-future, and, and, and !

There is no arguing that whether Disney movies are "mature and
modern" is matter of personal opinion.  Whether people want Disney
to be more "mature and modern" is a matter of personal taste.  I
think their stories *are* mature; at least, more mature than the girls
with guns (which does *not* classify *all* Anime).

Disney does not deal with "urban decay, overpopulation, etc."
because it is depressing and out of their genre.  They have their
own niche that few can touch.  They've been providing their own
sense of morality in their films, and IMHO the films do say
something.  All those horrible aspects of "civilization" are another
cliche that some other filmmakers are glad to snap up.  Leave Disney
to what it does best--it is only one studio that produces one
animated feature a year, all with high expectations and potential
for profit.  You want to see all those bleak aspects of life?  Read
the newspapers and watch news programs on TV.


- Robert Cook
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Disney reviews (Max fashion)
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 13 Dec 92  10:37:06

 RPG> After watching Disney's Little Mermaid, I can't 
 RPG> BELIEVE  it was so HORRIBLE, I mean, all it was 
 RPG> was some big-eyed red-headed SLUT spending the 
 RPG> whole
 RPG> time whining, showing off her cleavage, and 
 RPG> chasing down guys like the
 RPG> slut she is.  Eventually bullying a prince into 
 RPG> marrying her just so she
 RPG> can go off and leave her own people to suffer at 
 RPG> the hands of some evil
 RPG> she-devil
 If that was your true opinion... Fine... Everyone has a right to their
opinion of what they think.  And I for one did not like Beautiful Dreamer at
all!  If that is (and I doubt it) your opinion of the Little Mermaid, it
doesn't bother me at all.  that's your opinion, just like it is my opinion
that Beautfiul Dreamer is nothing but typical Japanimation garbage that
everyone assocites with (i.e. saucered-eye girl with little clothing, sexual
jokes, etc).  At least Nadia and Robot Carnival were MUCH BETTER and showed
some quality (save for Macek's lousy dubbing which did hurt both shows).  

--- Maximus 2.00
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: anime songs (Re: Kevin-style Aladdin review (thanks Ryan!))
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 15 Dec 92  04:25:48

 HD> Many songs (OP, ED, and other) from anime have become hit songs.
 HD> Also the opposite is true.  Hit songs have been used in anime.
 HD> There shouldn't be any surprise in this..  Hit songs have been
 HD> used for other TV series and background music.
 Hit songs have been used in anime???  Is that kind of like in those "Super
Mario" shows where they bring in some piece of music during a certain
segment???  If so, yeah that does happen a lot here also.  BTW, do you know
what (from your opinion) would be the most popular hit song off of a
Japanimation feature that made it big in Japan?  
 Anybody hear thinks that "A Whole New World" will do as good as the theme
song to "Beauty and the Beast"???

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: walter@sonja2.acc.stolaf.edu (Dr. Egon Spengler)
Subject: G.I. Joe and related things
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN  USA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:40:17 GMT

     I have always liked the G.I.Joe series, and really enjoyed the plots/sub
plots, etc and was talking with my fellows late last night about the whole 
storyline.  We all basically followed the TV show very much and one of my
friends read the comics REALLY closely.  I have not followed it (If it still
exists)  lately.  We basically came down with the same conclusion that the
Cobra-La stuff was non-Joe-ish.  It totaly screwed the series over.  Ya it was
kind of neat to have it, the Joe Movie was cool, but come on....If anyone can
remember any hints towards that stuff prior to the Joe Movie, please email me.
I really thought Golobulus was cool, but it made more sense to me to follow
the comic book outline.  This turned the whole Joe world around twords a 
stranger and wierder thing.  Ya, Cobra could get really wierd at times, but 
that's being a bad guy.  I really think that the Celtic Destro stuff could
have been done well in the series.  I remember a Flint/Lady Jane/Destro episode
where they hinted at it, but did not carry it out as far as they could have.

Questions:
1.  What happened to Serpantor in the Joe Movie?  How was he eliminated?
2.  Where there any hints towords the wierd Cobra-La stuff in the tv episodes?
3.  Somehow the Cobra-La stuff just sealed off the Joe world from reality or
the near reality enjoyed by it before.  
4.  Did basically most of the Cobra guys bite it in the Movie?  How'd Destro
ditch?

anyway...email responses are welcome.....in fact encouraged

'nuff said

*******************************************************************************
Greg "squirrels rule" Walter   *           "That would be bad..." -Doc Speng's
walter@stolaf.edu              *  "The magnetic Flux capacitor...It makes
St. Olaf College               *  time travel possible" -Doc
Northfield, MN                 *  
*******************************************************************************
From: farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Ren And Stimpy's Creator's Jobs (John K.'s past resume:)
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:10:09 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Dec9.162509.1605@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu>,
ngsippel@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu writes:
>Here is a listing of all the shows I know that John Kricfalusi has worked on.
>If there's more, please email them to me.
>
>Heathcliff (DIC, Assistant Director, 1984-85?)
>Mighty Mouse (Bakshi, Senior Director, 1987)
>Ren And Stimpy (Spumco, Director and Creator, 1990-92)
>
>Any more?
>
>-- 
>      .    _  .     ______________________ 
>      |\_|/__/|    /                      \   
>     / / \/ \  \  /  OH MY BELOVED BAG OF  \      
>    /__|O||O|__ \ \  GRITTY KITTY LITTER!  / 
>   |/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \  ____________________/      
>   | | (____) | ||  |/                       
>   \/\___/\__/  // _/
>   (_/         ||   
>    |          ||\    Norman G. Sippel
>     \        //_/    alias Norman "Killer Kadoogen" Stimpy
>      \______//      
>     __| | | |__      Email: ngsippel@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
>    (____) (____)            ngsippel@komodo.ham.muohio.edu
>                 
I believe he also worked on The Jetsons as well as the Rolling Stones Harlem
Shuffle video.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:24:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.185401.14854@sura.net>, wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes) writes:
> 
> Notice, ladies and gentlemen, that in his reviews of anime, Kevin Kline
> did not mention Vampire Princess Miyu.  He gave no indication of having
> seen it previously.  As Spock said, "There are two possibilities:"

I was about to comment exactly the same thing...

> 1)	He has forgotten to mention that he has seen it.
> 2)	He has never seen Miyu and is arbitrarily flaming it.
> 
> People wanna lay bets on which it is?

Neither.  He probably saw the 90 second promo at the end of the ORANGE ROAD
tape, and started his usual rant as soon as he saw the "saucer eye" character
designs.  :-(
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
From: moisan@silver.lcs.mit.edu (David Moisan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Sherlock Hound and Miyazaki
Followup-To: rec.arts.animation
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:47:59 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ai.mit.edu

Miyazaki was involved with Sherlock Hound right from the beginning.  He 
quit the show, *not* because it wasn't "up to standards", but because
he was also working on Nausicaa and had no more time to spend on it.
(There's an account of this in "Art of Nausicaa". [I don't have it,
though. :(])
 
If you watch the show for any length of time, it's clear that 
Miyazaki had a great deal to do with the conception, scripting
and art of the show.  Many (in fact, most) of the non-Miyazaki-directed
episodes are very good and have all the elements of his work.
He had some *very* talented people working alongside him, and it 
shows.
 
One of my favorite episodes features a jewel heist, two identical
dolls and a 500-pound nanny (who went to Dola's Charm School, obviously).
Another featured a dirigible, a fortune in gold coins and Moriarty's
steam-powered jetpack!  Neither were directed by Miyazaki.
 


-- 
| David Moisan, N1KGH    /^\_/^\   dmoisan@pro-angmar.alfalfa.com |
| 86 Essex St. Apt #204 ( o ^ o )  moisan@silver.lcs.mit.edu      |
| Salem. MA 01970-5225     | |                                    |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------/
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: AKIRA the movie
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:34:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Dec14.221601.26548@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> njs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (nicholas.j.sauer) writes:
>In article <101647@netnews.upenn.edu>, kupiec@hp800.lasalle.edu (Bob Kupiec) writes:
>> 
>> I just saw it 2 days ago and thought the animation was EXCELLENT, but as
>> you said I noticed plot/story problems too.
>
>I just saw AKIRA recently, also.  What plot/story problems were there?  Maybe


     I still am having problems on what a "plot" is, so forget that argument.
But... Does anyone's Criterion copy of Akira have a fuzzy part image of the BIG
government hospital (or whatever) where the AKIRA experiments took place?  And
after that, snow flakes (white dots on TV screen) appeared?  In anycase, do I
have a bad copy or does anyone else have this problem?!!

                                                                -TKH '92
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Predecrement David)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:28:06 GMT
Organization: Gokuraku Videos

rnlee@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Profess'nal Agitator) writes:
>
>As for "anime," it is a term the Japanese took from French to refer to
>all animation.

That is open for debate.  The Japanese language is recognized to have taken
a number of "modern" English words, and shortened/modified them to suit...

Wapuro = Word Processor
Conputaa = Computer
Biru = Building (?)

"Anime" (Jp) from "anime" (Fr) is satisfying.  It's easy to fall for such
elegant etymological false starts.  Often, the origin of a word is not what
we prefer.  (No, I do not prefer the "animation" origin side of the debate.)
I am merely pointing out that I have not seen conclusive evidence.

--David
+----------------------------------------------+----------------+-----+ 
| David Blume            | "..." "A, Ayukawa!" |  "Moemichan!   |  o  |
| dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | "Kasuga-kuun..."    |   SUKIDA!!"    | ^_^ |
+----------------------------------------------+----------------+-----+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi)
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Organization: DEC Japan Research and Development Center
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:51:46 GMT

In article <n1111t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
#  HD> Anime TV series viewer ratings (8/31 - 9/27 and 9/14 - 9/20)

# Chibi Maruki-chan?  Is that the series that is kind of like the "Japanese"
# SIMPSONS?  I saw something like that on a "Current Affair" recently talking
# about this girl who is just as bratty as Bart Simpson and it is a smash hit
# over there!  The show looked pretty funny and didn't feature ANY saucer-eye
# people or SLUT girls, nudity, bloody violence, etc.  If this is true, that is 
# great to hear.  (And hopefully maybe these new subtitle companies will go
# after that if they can.)

Yes.  It is very funny for Japanese people.
I don't know if a lot of the jokes can be translated to English,
or other cultures.

#  HD> Ranma 1/2 and Lum are not sex-epics..  They are kids shows.
#  They are???  You mean those 2 shows are aimed at children or teen-age/college
# age fanboys?  I would be shocke if they were aime at children considering the 
# nudity I have heard in Ranma 1/2.  (I'll check and see how Lum is with
# "Beautiful Dreamer").

teen age?  Ranma is for 6 - 12 year olds.
nudity?  What's wrong with showing kids nudity?
Lum may be for older kids.  Of course there are a few college-aged
or older people who like Ranma and UY.

#  I did also notice a few familiar titles (like Doreamon) that I am glad to see
# are up there in terms of ratings instead of the slut girl anime stuff... (BTW,
# do you know what the rating is for Sailor Moon, I hope it isn't doing that
# well.)

Sailor Moon is around 11.  But it is very popular with little girls.
Many teen age girls think Sailor Moon is very childish..
--
Hitoshi Doi, International Open Systems Engineering        doi@jrd.dec.com
Japan Research and Development Center               decwrl!jrd.dec.com!doi
Digital Equipment Corporation Japan      [from Japan: doi@jrd.dec-j.co.jp]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.anime
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Subject: Please, move anime posts from rec.arts.animation to rec.arts.anime
Followup-To: rec.arts.anime
Keywords: Anime on Anime
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime)
Organization: The Institute for Criminal Science, Gizmonics Control
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:25:17 GMT

Thank Yew.

                           "An' that's when they ran
                            you outta town."
                                                     "No.  That's when the bad
                                                      prunes kicked in."
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
From: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Bakshi's "Mighty Mouse"--"Scrappy's Field Trip"
Date: 12 Dec 1992 16:58:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


	At least I think that's what the episode title was...I had forgotten
about this one since I saw it first in 1987.  Did you see the Fredosaur and
Barneysaur fighting it out like "The Rite of Spring" part of "Fantasia"?
The Fredosaur even babbled some "Yabba-dabba-doo" in its gibberish roar,
and the Barneysaur threw in some of Mel Blanc's "A-hee-hee, A-hee-hee"
laugh when he was being tickled.  Not to mention the obvious swipe at
Kubrick's "2001" with the Black Domino Obelisk"...

	Scrappy himself, however, is just a Terrytoons version of Wesley
Crusher, without the brains, and should similarly be exterminated in a
long, painful fashion, maybe to the tune of "The Mighty Mouse Boogie".
Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to hearing that again, so I can
tape it.  It's a pretty decent emulation of Doris Day singing with the
Tommy Dorsey Orchestra (complete with the unison obligato vocals by
the band ala "Marie").
-- 
Richard F. Drushel ****** Ph.D. in Developmental Biology as of 4:45 PM 9211.20
rfd@po.cwru.edu ** Cleveland FreeNet ** Co-Sysop, Coleco ADAM Forum ** Go Z80!
"The bright and blinding sunlight shines so hotly on the trash-heaps that mere
undigested food and snotty Kleenex flow as rivers of milk and honey." - c.5253
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation