HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hontanon@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Ramon J. Hontanon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Honda Civic Bashing continues...
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:39:15 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Aug24.171021.26346@midway.uchicago.edu>, epc1@quads.uchicago.edu (Merlin) writes:
> In article <1992Aug24.090526.303@doc.bmd.trw.com> mcrosbie@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:

> >> 
> >>   Saturn SL :  9,000 - 15,000 <- I think, havn't looked to hard.
> >>   Civic     : 11,000 - 14,000
> >>   Saturn SC : 15,000 - 18,000
> >>   Probe     : 15,000 - 21,000
> >>   Miata     : 16,000 - 20,000
> >>   MX-6      : 18,000 - 23,000
> >>   Talon     : 18,000 - 26,000
> 
> :I think the VX sells for around $17k in Canada.
> 
> Exactly my point!!!  The VX is no less expensive than the cars listed above
> -- 
> En Pum Cho					
> University of Chicago Class of 1994
> math & economics major
> epc1@midway.uchicago.edu

En, my man, I hope you realize that these are 17,000 CANADIAN dollars that
he's talking about. You see, that makes the VX less expensive than most of
the cars in the list.

To makes things fair, I'll say that my '92 Civic SI has been problem-free
since I bought it in January. I really enjoy the car, and leave those 
pseudo-coupes (see Scoupe, Storm, Paseo, etc.) in the dust regularly.

Ramon
  
   -------------------------------------------------------------------
  | Ramon J. Hontanon  KE8SF  | "Life can only be understood backward,|
  | Flow Cytometry Lab - FDA  |   yet, it has to be lived forward"    | 
  | ramon@fdavax.cber.nih.gov |                                       |
  | hontanon@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu |            -- Soren Kierkegaard       | 
   -------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Timing Belts on Small Cars
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:32:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.195947.20832@intelhf.hf.intel.com> yhcrana@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Karl Brown) writes:

>snively@scsi.Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Snively) writes:

>>I have lately been approached by both the Honda service people 
>>that work on my 89 Civic and the Toyota service people that work on
>>my '84 Corolla to replace timing belts somewhere between 
>>60 and 100 thousand miles.  Costs over $300.  Sounds to me 
>>like service padding.

>I have a 1980 Fiat Spider, and the mechanics I've talked to suggest
>replacing the timing belt every 30,000 miles. 

Italian belts (Pirelli, 30 k miles) are not as reliable as their
Japanese counterparts (60 to 100 k miles).

>>Does anyone have real numbers on the statistics of timing
>>belt failures and the actual consequences to the motors that
>>would help guide me on this question?

>All I know is that on older cars, if the timing belt fails you could
>crack a valve, but most newer cars have some sort of safety feature to
>prevent this.  Nonetheless, it is a service that needs to be done,
>IMHO.

I have a friend who had 37,000 miles on his Alfa V-6 before his timing
belt exploded.  I think it only cost him US$5800 to have the damage
repaired to his valve train and the heads.  I would expect that on a 4
cylinder car the cost shouldn't go over $3000 or so.

You're right.  I'd not replace the belt until it breaks.  Cheaper that
way.

--
"But the fact that a 1938 touring bodied Alfa Romeo I once had is
worth $1 million sometimes bothers the hell out of me.  It's a
personal problem."                                     -Phil Hill
Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa Romeo  Ducati (DOD #900)
From: gw@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: I love Saturn!
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:06:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA

In rec.autos, joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins) writes:

> We own a 1991 Saturn SC and my wife called me said the brakes
> failed, i.e. she had a problem stopping. The car has 12,100 miles
> on it. We have had it for 14 months or so.


  It took me a few minutes to decide if this was sarcasm or positive remarks.
It must be positive remarks.  But, why do the saturn brakes overheat,
and "completely fail"?  Every car I have driven or read about does not
have brakes that "completely fail", they just fade out.  Your intention
may have been to make positive comments about saturn, but I am more
cautious than before about buying a saturn.
gordon
Xref: sparky rec.autos:21288 rec.autos.tech:12108
From: wpayne@digi.lonestar.org (William Payne)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Interested in Nissan turbo 300ZX (automatic!?)
Keywords: Nissan, 300Z
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:55:47 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa
Organization: none

I am considering a used '91 300ZX, twin-turbo, with leather and an
automatic transmission (just accept that last; I don't like sticks in
the city, which is where this one would live). Any info on reasons to
not buy one would be appreciated. Car magazines seem to be favorably
impressed. The only bad things I notice are:
  price (oh, well), 
  storage space (it's enough for what I need), and 
  the cheap upholstery job (I can live with it).

I have heard (friend of a friend type thing) that if the car is driven
through water deeper than a few inches (it happens in Dallas during a
good downpour), the water will be sucked through the air intakes and
ruin the engine; I put this to a sales manager at a Nissan dealership,
and he said, "You can kiss the engine goodbye". In looking at newer
sports cars, I've noticed ALL seem to have the same, low-lying air
intakes. Is the problem real, and is it common to such cars? I will
ask my insurance company, who has previously given me a VERY cheap
rate for the car, but would like any fairly solid info from the net.

Email, please. Thanks.

-- 
--
Bill Payne                 (214)519-3269
DSC Communications         Internet: wpayne@digi.lonestar.org
Plano, TX 75075            UUCP:     ...!uunet!digi!wpayne
Xref: sparky rec.autos:21235 misc.consumers:15968 rec.autos.tech:12076 sci.environment:10976 talk.environment:3501
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,rec.autos.tech,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle)
Subject: Re: Carburetors, gasoline, and why I don't recycle
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:09:31 GMT

jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End) writes:

>Well now that those working in the auto industry have pointed out the
>errors in Eric's post, I would like to share a little annecdote. When
>I was a youngster in the sixth grade (1975) a kid in our class
>interviewed a local citizen who had developed an automobile engine
>that ran entirely on hydrogen. From the sixth graders report to the
>class we learned that the developer was unable to interest anyone from
>the auto industry in his engine, and at the time I was mystified by
>this seemingly illogical situation. Now the picture seems a lot
>clearer.       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>When you say that advances are not made until they become economically
>feasible, you should add not until they become feasible under the current
>situation (oligopoly, plurocracy, ect.). It is quickly becoming clear
	    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>that this arrangement does not have the ability to regulate itself to
>the extent necessary to avoid catastrophic consequences, an in those
>cases, only after the fact.

Sorry, your posting does not make any sense to me.  You seem to have
decided that your experience as a sixth grader "proves" some conspiracy
theory.  It is not that hard to convert a car engine run on hydrogen.
You should also look at back issues of _Popular Science_ etc., from
the mid 1960's to see that it was Old News in 1975.  The real problems
with hydrogen as a fuel are: (1) how do you produce it economically, in
quantity; and (2) how do you store it and transfer it into the vehicle.

The first was supposed to be solved by using nuclear power plants to
generate electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen from seawater.
But nuclear power isn't as cheap or popular today as once thought.
The second is more problematic, since hydrogen is even harder than
propane or natural gas (~= methane) to handle.  In particular, it can
leak out of conventional storage tanks.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that the worldwide
automotive industry is a cutthroat business right now, not a chummy
cartel.  There is too much production capacity, and some of the players
are going to be driven out of business over the coming decade.  Rest
assured that if one company (or country) could be first on the market
with new technology (e.g, computer controlled engine management systems,
antilock braking, air bags, multivalve engines, active suspension
systems, etc.), they would jump at the chance.

Mart L. Molle
Computer Systems Research Institute
University of Toronto
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416)978-4928
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: BMW M3 VS. BMW 325
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:06:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.171603.25892@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.184247.24199@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>
>welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>>Many are the drivers who bought an M3 who would have been much, much happier
>>with a 325is.

>I've seen, just based on how they drive, literally hundreds of examples of 
>that statement, substituting M3/325is for the applicable vehicles.

but the M3 is sufficiently stiff and high strung that the resale values
reflect this fact; used M3s in excellent condition are under $20,000US.
the classifieds in _the Roundel_ (magazine of the us bmw club) are full
of nice M3s that were purchased by the wrong owners.

even agressive drivers sometimes find the M3 too nasty for daily use;
Richard Johns (from VA) is a blazingly fast driver at the track; he and
his M3 have caught up with me on many occasions.  i asked him what it was
like to commute in the car.  he told me that he commutes in an old 320i;
the M3 is no damn fun in traffic.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,misc.consumers,sci.environment,talk.environment,misc.invest
From: markr@mot.com (Mark)
Subject: Re: Carburetors, gasoline, and why I don't recycle
Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: MCIL
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:33:46 GMT

In article <jgraham.715448959@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End) writes:
>Well now that those working in the auto industry have pointed out the
>errors in Eric's post, I would like to share a little annecdote. When
>I was a youngster in the sixth grade (1975) a kid in our class
>interviewed a local citizen who had developed an automobile engine
>that ran entirely on hydrogen. From the sixth graders report to the
>class we learned that the developer was unable to interest anyone from
>the auto industry in his engine, and at the time I was mystified by
>this seemingly illogical situation. Now the picture seems a lot
>clearer.
>
>When you say that advances are not made until they become economically
>feasible, you should add not until they become feasible under the current
>situation (oligopoly, plurocracy, ect.). It is quickly becoming clear
>that this arrangement does not have the ability to regulate itself to
>the extent necessary to avoid catastrophic consequences, an in those
>cases, only after the fact.

Well, I am a little confused, there must be a whole lot of people,
like you, who believe that ultra efficient engines running on
alternative fuels are possible and cost-effective, so why don't you
get together and invest money into the technology and possibly make
a fortune ?

It's been a few years since I've seen a startup in alternative fuels.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil change?
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:09:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.221555.5727@tsoft.sf-bay.org> meiboy@tsoft.sf-bay.org (MeiBoy of UCU) writes:
>In article <jimf.714411983@centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>The dealer mechanics usually aren't much better than independents
>>(sometimes they're worse) -- they just charge more for both the parts
>>and the labor.
>
>The dealer does have a 90 day warranty on anything they do.

Any independent mechanic who can't offer that doesn't deserve your
business.  IMHO, of course...
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: marc@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Marcus Gates)
Subject: Buying a used Acura Legend
Organization: Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 13:19:44 GMT

    I am looking at a 1987 Acura Legend with almost 80k miles on it.  I
checked Consumers and it is on their list of recommended used cars as long
as the transmission is automatic (it is).  Are there any known problems
with this car which I should be sure to check for - I am going to have my
mechanic give it a good checkover and want to make sure he is as complete
as possible.   Thanks for any info.

				marc gates
				johns hopkins applied physics lab, laurel, md
				UUCP: ...bpa!cp1!aplcen!aplvax!marc
				Internet: marc@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: gcagle@dracula.mentorg.com (Greg Cagle)
Subject: Re: Alfa vs. the world (was Re: HONDA CIVIC BASHING C
Originator: gcagle@dracula
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 14:49:12 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <lactgiINN6lq@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
|> From article <1992Sep02.203023.18208@news.mentorg.com>, by gcagle@dracula.mentorg.com (Greg Cagle):
|> > 
|> > In article <laa4olINNpto@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
|> > |> 
|> > |> For example, it is quite obvious
|> > |> that the 924 was a response to (and near copy of) the Alfetta and the 
|> > |> 944 was a response to (and near copy of) the GTV6.
|> > |>  
|> > 
|> > Huh? I guess this wasn't obvious to me.
|> 
|> First, you should note that the the 924 got to the market about 2 years
|> after the Alfetta did (in Europe) and that the 944 (simply an upgrade of
|> the 924) also reached the market about 2 years after the GTV6 (simply an
|> upgrade of the Alfetta).

I know that.

|> 
|> Next, that the Alfetta is the first mass produced car design with the
|> engine in front and the gearbox in the rear.  There are a few examples 
|> of exotics and numerous race cars with this configuration, but the
|> Alfetta is the first mass production car.  Two years later, the 924 is
|> the second.  There are some differences, the Alfetta had De Dion and the
|> 924 had fully independant rear suspension and the Alfetta had a much
|> higher quality engine than did the 924 (for a sports car).  The 924 was
|> priced higher than the Alfetta.
|> 
|> The comparisons and timing between the GTV6 and the 944 are similar.
|> The 944 came out a bit less than two years after the GTV6.  Both cars 
|> were upgraded from 1.6 to 2.0 litre engines to 2.4 to 2.5 litre engines.  
|> The 944 engine (4 cylinder with ballance shafts) was (again) cheaper 
|> mechanically than the GTV6 engine (V6).  But this time, Porsche finally 
|> gave the buyer a bit more for the higher price by incorporating the 
|> first complete engine management system.
|> 
|> So, looking at what the two companies did and when, the conclusion that
|> Porsche was copying Alfa is inescapable.

I still have a hard time swallowing this.

Allow me to recap. Your points are:

- Alfa came out with a car with a unique (for a production car) 
  powertrain layout.
- Some time later Porsche came out with a car with a similar powertrain
  layout.
- The cars are roughly competitive in the marketplace.

Based on this, I think the strongest statement that can be made
is possibly "influenced by". "Copying" to me implies a more thorough
attempt to clone the source beyond powertrain layout, and there
are many more differences between the two cars than similarities
(as you point out). 

I think "copying" is too strong a term, but there is a lot of this type
of activity in the world marketplace (obviously). That's how we got
so many front wheel drive cars, and cupholders, and other useful stuff.

- Greg
-- 
Greg Cagle               "Prognosis Negative!"
Mentor Graphics           - Seinfeld
greg_cagle@mentorg.com
From: dlou@GEORDI.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: SHO Engine for Probe GT - Why Not?
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:37:13 GMT
Reply-To: dlou@ece.ucsd.edu
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <14433@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep2.174847.9936@mprgate.mpr.ca>, jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca (J.C. 
|> Jiang) writes:
|> > All of my friends agree 
|> > that the free-revving SHO engine is perfect for the Probe. I feel that
|> > a Probe SHO should have no trouble beating a 5.0 Mustang in 0-60. Is this
|> > realistic? Or am I just day dreaming? 
|> 
|> What a thought, an Yamaha in a Probe.  It should be called the
|> Probe SVO.
|> 

I can just see it now...

Engine by Yamaha
Drivetrain by Mazda
Chassis by Ford
Motronics by Bosch
Tires by Michelin (or whatever source they use)

Who's car would it be? :-)

-- 
Dennis Lou             || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dlou@ucsd.edu          || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou   |+====================================================
dlou@ucsd.BITNET       |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike Suter)
Subject: Re: THE DOOR HORROR
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:34:12 GMT

[two tales of woe deleted...]

Can't you get their license/insurance info and file a claim against
their insurance?  If they leave, call the cops and tell them they 
left the scene of an accident after you get their plate #.

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: dlou@ECE.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Isuzu Impulse Turbo AWD
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:39:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: worf.9209011939.AA18857
Organization: University of California, San Diego


What's up with the Isuzu Impulse Turbo AWD?  It seems that the big
three car rags (M/T, R/T, C+D) looked at the base Impulse and paid no
attention to the steroid version.  About the only mention I've seen of
it in a car rag is that Jean Lindamood used it to lose an autocross in
Automobile.

Anybody have a review for it?  Anyone have road test results?



--
Dennis Lou             || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dlou@ucsd.edu          || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou   |+====================================================
dlou@ucsd.BITNET       |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (curious vIRgO)
Subject: What the curious saw at the local Dodge dealership
Summary: Okay, well one was, the other...no.
Keywords: Cars. Two. Nice. HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE.
Organization: Metters Industries, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:17:33 GMT

I see my summary comes before my keywords...oh well...

Anyhoo, I have seen, up close and personal, my first LH platform
vehicle, the Intrepid, at Fitzgerald's Dodge here in MD. I ALSO saw my
first Viper RT/10. For both vehicles,all I can say is *WOW*!. The Intrepid
is alot like my Acclaim, has that ever-widening from the front then shrinking
to the rear body,which gives ya lots of interior room without making the
exterior look like the size of a '77 Lincoln Town Car. I don't like the fact
that this thing comes with a 3.3L engine which has about as much torque as my
3.0L...especially on a car that is lbs. heavier in curb weight than my car.
The looks,feel(I sat in the beast),and the style would make me seriously
consider getting one...if we can talk that $19K+ MSRP sticker down to around,
say, $15K+. I can dream,can't I???

Now, the Viper. BOY HOWDEEE! That shure is one pretty lil' filly! Looks
about the size of a 'Vette and it screams IMPRACTICALITY all over(I didn't
know that it came with stick in side windows...that's interesting). The 
car looked good, from it's '70's sidepipes to that cool squat rear. Incidentally, they had a Stealth sitting in front of it, and the salesmen remarked to me
"Well, if ya couldn't have this car, at least there's a low cost alternative
 in front[Stealth]". They had marked the car down to $19K,but he said they
COULD make a deal to $16K. This was the AWD/Turbo version, by the way. I 
thanked him, but said that I already have a new car, so I'll just go ahead
and pay that off and be happy.

In closing, some of you RX-7 fans may be able to set my ex-girlfriend straight.
Or myself. We were having a discussion about our cars and she haughtily pointed
out that her RX-7(It's a 1984 GS with the 1.1)can do 130mph. I was skeptical,
but gave her the benefit of the doubt and pointed out that MAYBE she can reach
130mph,but she can't maintain it. She said, "Yes I can, and I can BEAT your
stupid Acclaim too(you can see whay we ain't together)!" Anyway, we went out
on Rte. 29 and I proceeded(and finished)to shut her down. Still, she sticks
by her 130mph claim. So, can any of ya'll support this? Refute this???

Would appreciate e-mail responses or even post(I read this newsgroup WAY
too much anyway).

curious virgo
-- 

Paul "Axel" Virgo
Metters Industries
Arlington, VA 22202
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: US CARS FOR SALE IN UK
From: lorena@sdl.mdcbbs.com
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:28:16 BST
Organization: Shape Data  (A division of EDS Ltd) - Cambridge,UK
Nntp-Posting-User: lorena

CARS FOR SALE - UK

Pontiac Fiero GT
1985
2.8 litre
inported/registered last year

white/grey interior - immaculate (honest!)

adult owned and driven
must be one of best in uk

6,500 pounds
oh, alright, 6250..
well, maybe 6,000  but no less!

(just thought i'd do the bartering now!)



ALSO:

Pontiac Firebird Formula 400
1978
405 cu inch or 6.6 litre
extensively modified, properly de-smogged
excellent inside and out
UK import/spec from new

must be seen!

5,500 pounds - no bartering here...;)


the fiero's in south london at the moment, but can sometimes be found
near cambridge, along with the firebird.

mail me if interested, or if you want more info, or if you want any other
american cars! 

thanks,

Lorena


-- 
Lorena Abbott (Unix System Manager)       Shape Data Limited (EDS)
 Internet: lorena@sdl.mdcbbs.com                     46 Regent Street
     UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,att}!sdl.mdcbbs.com!lorena    Cambridge CB2 1DB
    Voice: +44 223 316673  Fax: +44 223 316931           United Kingdom
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: larryn@col.hp.com (Larry Neal)
Subject: Re: American VW Joke
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:10:10 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division


Hi! In thae same vein I once had my 1965 Corvair
(chevy rear engine) in a local auto show, and I
over heard a number of spectators comment on what
a clean job I had done in moving the engine to the
rear! 

Regards,

Larry

Newsgroups: rec.autos