HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Jujitsu
Date: 12 Nov 1992 18:42:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 1788@bradford.ac.uk, D.G.Legros@bradford.ac.uk (DG LEGROS) writes:
>Ronin Ryu is one man's interpretation of the techniques he was taught.
>Ryu means School.  Samurai Ju-Jutsu, is also known as Samurai Ryu,
>These are the names of SCHOOLS of the art, NOT STYLES.  Our
>instructor left the Samurai Ryu, as they were ripping the club off,
>hence he left the assoc, and formed his own, hence the name Ronin,
>(Masterless Samurai), and as for all the students he conned, the
>Ryu consists of 3 clubs.

Ryu means School in the sense of a System. The Schools which 
belong to a Ryu are called -kan. 

By way of example: Danzan Ryu - The Hawaiian Island System (School).

Kodenkan - School of the Ancient Tradition (teaching the Ryu)
Doshinkan - School of the Spirit Way (teaching the Ryu)
Honshinkan - School of the Original Mind/Spirit (teaching the Ryu)

What was pointed out by Robert is Ronin Ryu & Samurai Ryu are oxymorons.

I agree with his conclusion.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kendo tournament report
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:37:30 GMT
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <JON.92Nov9120130@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:

[description of unfair judges decision deleted]

   At first I was very disappointed over my loss, but I
   remembered the advice I had given my students before the tournament:
   "Don't worry about the match, just concentrate on beating your
   opponent."  I had scored two decisive strikes, and my opponent's
   shinai (sword) never touched me.  I felt satisfied that I had used
   clean Kendo to clearly defeat him, despite the judges' decision.

Good advice, indeed.  When I used to compete in (karate) tournaments,
it was drummed into us that it didn't matter if you won the match,
as long as you won the fight.  And even if you lost both, if you learned
something from it, you still came out ahead.

I know that many of the folks on r.m.a. are down on tournaments,
but I still feel that if you go to the right ones, and compete
with the right attitude, they can be a valuable learning experience.



-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl)
Subject: Re: Buddha's Palm
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:12:08 GMT
Organization: SIEMENS Austria Corp., A-1100 Wien, Gudrunstr. 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Mantak Chia teaches a Qigong exercise called Bhuddha palm/hand. The
description available (a few pages) does not cover everthing, that is taught 
in the course (obviously). The exercise emphasizes the training of the
qi in the hands. Just by the base post I realized there are movements that
may be applied in MA as well. As far as creating strong local qi sensation
(warmth, tingling etc.) I found this exercise one of the most powerfull
I came across.

Ernst Krudl, Vienna, Austria
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: karate-getting in shape
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:36:10 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: srmcinto@eos.ncsu.edu's message of 8 Nov 92 23:10:43 GMT


In article <1992Nov8.231043.19957@ncsu.edu> srmcinto@eos.ncsu.edu (SEAN R MCINTOSH) writes:

	   Hi!  I am going to start taking some Karate classes in the near future 
   and I would like some advice.  What do I need to do in order to prepare for these
   classes.  I am mainly interested in the physical training area. If anyone has a 
   suggested workout please e-mail it to me. 

Since you say you're starting "in the near future", I would say, don't do 
anything.  You are a novice; your instructor is not going to expect you
to be "prepared", from the aspect of physical training or any other.  I 
have observed a whole lot of people come in as beginners to the martial 
arts.  Some are total couch potatoes and some are very active and athletic, 
but none are totally "prepared" because they are undertaking a new, different
activity.  Some of them who take a lot of pride in their physical 
conditioning are rather dismayed, and say things like, "I play tennis/
swim/run/rollerblade and I thought I was in shape!"  My opinion is that
it's not a matter of being in shape or not...it's because taekwondo, and
a number of other arts as well, require you to move in a way that's very
explosive, and that involves a whole-body effort.  Thus, it's very tiring
at first, even for people who are very well conditioned, and it stays
that way until you learn to use your body in a harmonized, efficient way.

	   A friend of mine suggested that I do pushups on my knuckles.  What do 
   you think?  I would also like some information on how to get my fists into shape
   ?  I would also like an opinion on full-contact karate.  I am interested in this, 
   but I really do not know what to expect.  Any information will be greatly 
   appreciated.

Wait until you have started studying karate, and then use the 
training/conditioning methods that your sensei recommends.  My 
guess is that he/she will advise you to spend most of your time practicing
karate, and only a relatively small amount of time on auxiliary training
techniques.  

I'm not going to offer an opinion on "full-contact karate".  A lot of 
different things go under the name.  There are some pretty clear advantages
and disadvantages to full- or hard-contact training.  Whether it's right
for you depends on your objectives, your limits, and how you learn best.  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Yu-sool, Judo, and Sambo
Summary: Yu-sool aparently *not* a parent of Judo
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:04:56 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


A week or so ago, there was some discussion around Korean Yu-sool 
and Japanese Judo.  In mail, someone also inquired about Sambo
and its relationship to these other arts.  I did a little bit of
research over the weekend into this, but I forgot to bring in 
the notes I took.  From memory, here are the high points...

Historically, (mostly from Draeger and Smith), Yu-sool is apparently 
a Korean art and sport of closing and grappling of 12th century origin,
independent of Japanese Jujutsu, which was first codified independently 
at about the same time.  Jujutsu is independent, most importantly
in that it was always associated with archery and horsemanship, and imbedded
in the framework of strategy in which the sword was central.  The term
Yu-Sool does translate to something very similar or identical to 
Jujutsu (soft, or yielding art), but the content of the style was probably
very different in character.

The Korean tradition, probably influenced heavily by Mongolian wrestling,
was not related the sword strategy, and probably stood more apart as a
separate grappling style, more comparable to Sumo, or ancient Sumai
(combat Sumo) than to Jujutsu.  

Draeger and Smith claim, in my edition of Asian Fighting Arts, that Yu-Sool 
is now extinct.

Sambo, a popular modern Russian sport, is related to both, in that it is 
derived from study of over 200 wrestling styles, including Asiatic and
Mongolian wrestling, as well as Japanese Judo.  Its founders were Judo
yudansha.  Its original intent was as a hand-to-hand combat method for the
Soviet military and police, but it very quickly became a sport.  Sambo
is distinguished from Judo, among other elements by its use of shorts rather 
than long Judogi pants, its exclusion of strangling, and its inclusion of a 
wider variety of joint locking techniques, and different scoring system.
Notably, submission from successful joint locks are awarded the highest point 
score, and dragging the opponent down to the map with less than a clean throw is
given higher scoring than in Judo.  

I hope I got the majority of that right from memory.  Some of the other
sources I found helpful, besides Draeger and Smith's Asian_Fighting_Arts were
Reid and Croucher's _Fighting_Arts_ (has some comments on worldwide wrestling 
styles in the last chapter), and Farkas and Corcoran's big blue book of martial
arts styles and traditions.

							kind regards,

							todd
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                             |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kendo tournament report
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:23:10 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <JON.92Nov9120130@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>
>	Last weekend, the Beikoku Kendo Renmei held its first National
>Kendo Championships in Los Angeles, California.  
>
>	My second opponent was a very large man.  He outweighed me by
...
>the referee.  With just a few seconds left in the match, I scored a
>decisive head blow with a withdrawing motion (hiki-men).  All three
>judges's flags went into the air, but then they waved it off.  As I
>moved backwards after the blow, I had stepped out of bounds a third
>time.  My opponent was awarded another point, and the match.
...
>clean Kendo to clearly defeat him, despite the judges' decision.

    Jonathan, You won the hikimen point, if it happened as you stated.
    The rulebook clearly states that a jogai will not be called if
    a point has been scored.  The following is for reference;

From the All Japan Kendo Federation Rulebook titled "Kendo Matches and
Judging Regulations, Items to Remember For Carrying Out The Matches".
In Effect from October 1, 1987

  Section 8: Foul Play
   Chapter 21: The following actions are prohibited:
    
    1.  JOGAI:
              Stepping out of the court during the match. (Except after 
              getting the point and if the point was cancelled due to no 
              ZANSHIN.  In this case there will be no JOGAI.)

I am sorry to hear you got a poor call against you.  I just lost a match
in Atlanta after the alleged Kote (Wrist) point hit me in the bicep.  It
is all a part of tournaments.


-- 
Robert Stroud       roberts@usa.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@volkl.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Chinese Belt systems (was Re: 10th Dan)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
	<1992Nov10.214811.18003@src.dec.com>
	<BxL0D5.Iq9@max.physics.sunysb.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:21:05 GMT

>>>>> On 12 Nov 92 02:31:53 GMT, gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) said:

ET> In Chinese systems there are no belts, dans or whatever and "the
ET> rank of a master is measured by the length of his life". 

Hah!  Here in the wilds of NJ there is  "traditionl Dragon Style Kung
Fu" school (for which, this posts not withstanding, I have a lot of
repect) that has a colored sash system.

When I spoke with the instructor there he expressed horror at another
local school that has a colored sash system for _taiji_!  He couldn't
understand HOW you could use colored sashes for that.  Kung Fu, maybe.
But not TAIJI!
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The similarity among soft and internal MA
Date: 13 Nov 1992 20:05:56 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov13.015105.146316@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sc0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SHYUAN-FANG CHEN) writes:
>Most famous Tai Chi masters were heavily sick when they were young.

Other than Cheng Man-ching, who do you have in mind?


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Badass Karate
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:40:56 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>>
>>    If anyone thinks that Muay Thai is undefeated in world competition, I ask
>>you to rent a movie called "Fighting Black Kings", which you can find at any
>>good Blockbuster Video. It is a documentary about the 1st annual Martial Arts
>>Invitational in Tokyo (I think that's what the name of the tournament was.

     The video is of a tournament sponsered by the Kyokushin-kai. It's
excellent viewing. Many of the Americans you in there are now members of
the Seido Juku system.

>But to defend the Thai boxer, wasn't he much smaller than all the other 
>fighters?  Maybe he was tired and overwelmed by the size of his opponents
>(and whether you want to admit it or not, size DOES makes up for lack of
>skill)

     The Thai boxers are tough. But about twenty years ago, the Thai
champion was defeated by Tadashi Nakamura, a Kyokushin-kai member who
later founded the Seido Juku system to which I belong. So I'd have to
say the the Kyokushin-kai are at least as tough as the Muay-Thai students.
Of course, we Seido stylists can beat the pants off all of 'em. B->

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
"We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or that if they have
 existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in
 the future." -- Max Planck
From: jat@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:31:35 GMT
Subject: Punchy-kicky types
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

I posted this a long time ago, but it didn't show up.  It's a bit late,
but I'll re-post.

Todd I. Stark writes:
Tactically, a crude rush usually has the 'business' completed at very close
range, not at arms length.

Michael Robinson writes...
  question is this:  why is it that untrained people overwhelmingly prefer
  a mode of attack that many trained people are uncomfortable dealing with
  Or, to look at it another way, at what point in punchy-kicky training do
  students start to become adverse to infighting, and why?

Todd I. Stark writes:
Among other things, reasons for specializing in outfighting for karate/tkd
folks might be largely that it is a lot *cleaner* in application.  It's
easier to see what's going on, and less likely to involve you in
fringe areas like getting grabbed and dragged dow

I write:  Since we're talking about "street attacks", I think it's
important to understand why streetfights end up on the ground or in a
clinch so much.  In my experience, it is because someone loses his
balance, and his bodyweight basically takes him forward into the other
person.  This is one reason why I think infighting and groundfighting
are so important.  In almost every real-life streetfight I've seen, the
fighters either went to the ground, or else there was an *opportunity*
to go to the ground (sometimes, the opportunity is missed, or the other
fighter steps back just in time to avoid being taken down).  In any
case, an experienced groundfighter could have taken things in hand.

Anyway, I don't think untrained people "prefer" infighting -- I think
their bad balance and footwork just make it end up that way.  A really
good punchy-kicky type with excellent balance and footwork might be able
to counter-act this tendency on the part of untrained fighters, but it
seems to be really difficult.

In fact, I've seen superior -- and I mean *really* superior -- athletes
get caught with this.  I'm an avid boxing fan, and I'll often see a very
strong opponent vs.  a very fast one.  "Stick and move" is the usual
strategy on the part of the fast opponent, but a number of times I've
seen a "hit and clinch" strategy work also.  Hit and clinch works like
this:  step into range, hit once or twice before the strong guy has a
chance, then step in and clinch so the guy can't hit you back.  This
strategy works well (in boxing), though the crowd hates it.  I've seen
inferior boxers do this to superior boxers, and the better boxer has
trouble avoiding it.  And if a good pro boxer can't avoid the clinch,
I'm not so sure I can either; of course, I have some potent weapons that
the boxer doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect that against a really big opponent, I'm
safer on the ground anyway (crosstraining in jujutsu, here I come!).

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
From: psran@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Ms J I Vousden)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Korean TKD Terminology (revised & expanded)
Date: 11 Nov 1992 15:22:50 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: paprika.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Keywords: TKD,

I wonder if anyone can let me have a mail-order address
where I can buy a pair of Pro Spec TaeKwonDo shoes.

I can't seem to get hold of them in the UK.

Thanks.

Janet Vousden
Dept. of Psychology
Warwick University
West Midlands
England
e-mail psran@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: andrew@cursci.demon.co.uk (Andrew Trotman)
Subject: Sin Moo Hap Ki Do or other Kap Ki Do in UK?
Distribution: world
Organization: Current Drugs
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:42:56 +0000

Does anyone out there know if there is a Sin Moo Hap Ki Do club anywhere in
the UK?  If there is (and I don't care what part of the UK it is in), please
let me know.

If you know where there is a Hap Ki Do club that isn't Sin Moo, I'm just as
interested.

I want to know because I have come to the UK from other parts of the world
and wish to continue my training in HKD.  I have not trained with Sin Moo
clubs, but have seen heaps of their adverts around, advertising Europe
clubs not UK clubs!

Andrew
andrew@cursci.co.uk

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: Counters
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:11:32 GMT

jl52800@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Incredible Mr.Wong) writes:

>I'm just looking for some comments here.....I've seen a lot of demonstrations
>where someone throws a punch or kick at the demonstrator, who then does a 
>whole bunch of stuff to disable to attacker. The demonstrator is usually very
>quick, and it DOES look impressive. But, it seems like the attacker is more or
>less immobile after the initial attack for the benefit of the demonstration. 
>It makes me wonder how effective these counters would be in real life? I mean,
>I've seen quite a few street fights, and when someone attacks, they keep 
>attacking until it's over. Does anyone have any experience using techniques
>learned in the dojo in a REAL fight, where someone would be actively resisting?

I've only been in one "real" fight, and I was very surprised with both
how well the techniques worked and at my own selection of techniques
during the fight.  (I wouldn't exactly call it selection, I just did it,
without thinking or really being aware of what I was doing.)  I'm at
best a mediocre martial-artist (although I was in better shape at the
time), so apparently it is possible to use these elaborate techniques in
a real fight.  I talked about it to my sensei afterwards, and he said
that a lot of it is accounted for by the fact that the first technique
in most of these combos (in my style: gojuryu) is a strike which is
intended to stun the attacker, thus hindering his reactions to the rest
of the techniques I use.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Better atemi for Aikido
From: Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU <GMS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:25:47 EST
Organization: Penn State University

Part of the problem with atemi is that the uke has to believe you *intend*
to actually strike for it to work.   I have seen mushy atemi  also, and
I doubt that it owuld be effective in a real situation.

I wouldn't advise studying a hard style just to learn how to do atemi,
but the earlier advice regarding attending atemi  class at your dojo or
working on a heavy bag are both good.  Also you want to cultivate the
attitude that will make your atemi work, as opposed to the  'trancelike'
attitude I have seen some nage exhibit.

If you ever have to use Aikido for real you must understand that there
may be a need for your atemi to be more than just a convincing threat.

gerry santoro
penn state university
Aikido Kokikai Penn State
From: sofmac@cesl.rutgers.edu (Sofus Attila Macskassy)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: any dojos in the plainsboro/princeton area? (NJ)
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:07:26 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: LCSR @ Rutgers University


I'm looking for any dojos in the plainsboro/princeton area.
I'm looking specifically for arts that has kicking, throwing and
good falling techniques.
Also, I'm looking for a dojo that places importance on spiritual
development as well as technique.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

-Sofus
______________________________________________________________________________
Sofus Mackassy           \\   Work: (908) 932-0544        Home: (609) 799-5234
sofmac@cesl.rutgers.edu  //   UUCP: {backbone}!rutgers!cesl.rutgers.edu!sofmac
From: phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: BAD A$$ Karate, a call to end this garbage
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:45:48 GMT
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Originator: phantom@gagme

In article <1992Nov10.023725.4982@reed.edu> mnoell@reed.edu (Matthew Max Noell) writes:
>
>	Dear Lief,
>	It is called Thai boxing.  Notice the h.  It is from Thailand.  The
>bamboo tree story is a rip-off from a Van Damme movie called Kickboxer.  And
>your friend broke a blackbelts leg and arm?  After absorbing a punch and a
>kick?  Huh!  Not much of a blackbelt or else a pretty tall tale.  You yourself
>are martial artist, so think about it.  Unless your friend is one too, and

	That could be, but my friend is about 6ft and was into body
building the time, and I can belive him because I have seen legs of MA people
grabed by non MA.  For the record this BB was from a TKD school.

	Thai boxing ( SO I MISSED THE 'H' sue me, I belive I was told that
story first in about 88 (from a laoisin living in America ) then in 89
by a Thai Kcikboxer.  What I mean by back woods if you dont know is way
away from the city in a village that has very little outside world contact
but it could be from Kickboxer.

	I really dont know what you know about a street fighter but they can be
mean, if I got the header rembered properly you were from around the BRonx, NY
I suggest that you go to Angle HQ and talk to Lisa and Curtis Sliwa and find
out how MA poeple in genral do against an MA person.

	- Leif Ericksen
	phantom@gagme.chi.il.us