From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: The Mets' All-Time Team
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 19:58:06 GMT

I was going to wait until the weekend and do it up right.  But Jason,
while he has good intentions, is probably not old enough to remember
some of the players of the past.  So here are some corrections (IMHO of
course):

In article <8DEC199215392991@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>	Ok, since nobody's tried to touch this one, let me be, as always,
>the first one to jump into the plasma pool and list out the greatest All-
>Time Mets.
>
>1b:  Keith Hernandez.  Shouldn't be any doubt about this one
>	backup:  Ed Kranepool

The backup could be interesting.  Eventhough Kranepool lasted until
1979, he was almost always displaced by someone else.  Krane was an all
right bat and a decent fielder.  For the backup I would like to put Donn
Clendenon there, but Clendenon only had two good years with the Mets.
My vote would go for John "The Hammer" Milner, co-MVP of the (I think)
1979 All Star Game.  An average fielder with power (and a not so good
OBP).  Milner was the starting firstbaseman when Kranepool retired.

>2b:  Hmmmm ... Wally Backman?  maybe Jefferies, but I'm not sure
>	backups:  Doug Flynn, Ron Hunt

This is easy: Felix "The Cat" Millan.  Smooth, consistant, and the only
player to play in all 162 games for the 1973 NL Champions.  A class act
all the way.  Backman would be his backup.

>3b:  Howard Johnson.  Mainly becaues nobody else held on to the position
>	backup:  Ed Charles.  What an awesome name.  And Don Zimmer.  0-34!!!!

The backup had to be the person who is second to HoJo in appearances at
third: Wayne Garrett.  Garrett, who started off his career as a second
baseman, was probably the Mets' most consistant thrid baseman.  HoJo has
a much better bat.  Honorable Mention to Hubie Brooks.  Brooks is
proabably better than Garrett, but Garrett has the longevity that one
does not see in a Mets third baseman.

With 81 names to choose from, as long as you did not pick Elliot Maddox
I can't argue much.  Did someone say Pumpsie Green?  Choo Choo Coleman?
Hot Rod Kanehl?!  :-)

>SS:  Tony Fernandez, already.  No, Buddy deserves this one, even after becoming
>     manager :)
>	backup:  Frank Taveras.  Had the one decent year

Starter: Bud Harrelson.  I'll take his light bat for his work at short.
He was a damned good shortstop.  I would not include Fernandez until he
plays at least one game for the Mets.  To back him up: Raphael Santana.
Limited range, but consistant both in the field and with the bat.

>CF:  Mookie Wilson and Lenny Dykstra, platooning as they ever did
>	backup:  Willie Mays, just for sentiment.  I was born the day of
>	his last game, during the '73 World Series.

No!!  All time CF has to be Tommie Agee.  Agee was quick and agile for
a big man.  His catches in Game 4 of the 1969 World Series are still
vivid memories.  Wilson and Dykstra can back up with Say Hey Willie as
Honorable Mention.

>RF:  Darryl Strawberry (but only if we don't include an honorary DH)

I was torn between this and one other person.  But if you look at it, I
guess Darryl can stay as the "starter."  For his backup: Rusty Staub.
Staub held the team record for RBIs until Gary Carter tied it in 1986
and HoJo broke it in 1991.  Staub broke his shoulder in Game 3 of the
1973 NL Playoffs (long before some marketing-type though up "League
Championship Series") running into the wall in RF to catch a ball.  He
played the rest of the post season in pain.

>LF:  I guess we can give Kevin McReynolds a spot.  Who else?  Kevin Mitchel
>     for a year?

How about the guy who still holds the Mets record for average in a
single season: Cleon Jones (.340 in 1969, third in the NL behind Pete
Rose).  Jones flourished Gil Hodges and probably would have been a great
player (not HOF calibre, but just under it) if he could have continued
playing for Hodges.  Jones' problem is that he was black and then Mets
Chairman of the Board M. Donald Grant was a racist.  Grant hated Jones
and nobody was ever sure why, except Jones was black.  Howard Johnson
plays is a lot like Jones except I think Jones was faster and probably
was a smarter base runner.

I'm going to make Lee Mazilli his backup because we have to put him
somewhere.  Maz was the late 70s hope for the Mets, but things just
didn't work out.  Maz also deserves credit for his return to the team in
1986 and playing a roll in helping stage what became a great ending to
game 6 of the 1986 World Series.

Yes, I'm ignoring Steve Henderson.  In fact I ignore everyone involved
with that trade, including the idiot who made it.

>C:  Gary Carter and Jerry Grote
>	backups:  John Stearns; Duffy Dyer (another great name; now a florist
>		  in Arizona)

I thought Dyer was a coach with the Milwaukee organization?  Isn't
Stearns now with Denver?  Oops... Colorodo?
I have no arguments with this.  However, if I needed a catcher for his
defense and pitch calling in a crucial game, I would send out Grote over
Carter.  Johnny Bench once said that if he and Grote were on the same
team, Grote would be the catcher and Bench would probably be at third
base.

>SP:  Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Dwight Gooden, Sid Fernandez
>	and don't forget Nolan Ryan, who tried his hardest.

I'll take this five-man rotation: Seaver, Gooden, John Matlack, Koosman,
and El Sid.  If we had to just pick on what they did with the Mets, Ryan
doesn't register on the list.  Matlack (1972 ROY) does.  Somewhere, even
as honorable mention, Craig Swan has to make this team.  IMHO Swanie
would have won at least two Cy Young Awards if he was five years older
or five years younger.  He was a great pitcher on some really bad teams.
Yes, David Cone makes this team as well.  Cone is damned good, but I
don't think he cracks this lineup.  IHMO, Swan gets in before Cone,
although both are probably equal in ability.  I think Swanie is tougher
(he had to be... look at the teams he played on! :-).

>RP:  Neil Allen, Jesse Orosco, Randy Myers, The indomitable Tug McGraw
>	you will not that John Franco's name doesn't come close to
>	appearing on this list

Neil Allen?  Not first!  My lefty-righty pair would be Jesse Orosco (the
Mets all-time save leader) and Roger McDowell (the Mets all-time
appearance leader) with Tug "Ya Gotta Believe" McGraw in reserve.  I
would give Allen and Ron Taylor (now team doctor for the Blue Jays)
honorable mention.

>After I made this up, it occurs to me that either I forgot a tremendous
>amount of names, or that the Mets' history is full of just so many stretches
>of bad years that it's impossible to come up wih genuine worthy players.
>	Feel free to post amendments and additions.

I did!  :-)

>	And now, for the honorary section
>
>Manager:  Gil Hodges, who helped create the first true winning environment
>	  in flushing meadows.

No arguments!
Honorable Mention: The Ol' Professor, Casey Stengel.  Why?  Because of
all, he was the most fun!
Serious Honorable Mention: Davey Johnson.  The best winning percentage
of any Mets manager.

>Coaches:  Davey Johnson, Yogi Berra, and George Bamberger because he tried too

Pitching coach: Rube Walker, who counts as his pupils Seaver, Koosman,
McGraw, Ryan, Jim McAndrew (who would have been fantastic if he didn't
blow out his shoulder in 1970), Matlack, George Stone (Walker's work
really improved Stone who had a great '73 post season) and Swan.

>G.M.:  Frank Cashen up until 1988

Very Honorable Mention: John Murphy.  Took over as GM after the Bing
Devine fiasco and proceeded to Build the Mets to their culmination of
this effort in 1969.  Murphy common sense to do whatever it took to get
Gil Hodges away from Washington to manage the Mets in 1968.  Murphy
worked with Pittsburgh and Montreal to get Donn Clendennon out of his
"sort-of" retirement to get him on the Mets right at the trading
deadline of June 15, 1969.  All Clendennon did was get an RBI in 15 of
his first 16 games and win the MVP of the 1969 World Series. Murphy died
three months after he watched the successful ending of the 1969 season.

>Owner:  Joan Whitney Payson, the woman who brought the Mets into being

Technically it was Bill Shea (with some help from Branch Rickey and M.
Donald Grant) who brought the Mets into being.  HOWEVER, it was Payson's
money that made it happen.  Payson was a minority owner of the New York
Giants and was the only person (through her representative, attorney M.
Donald Grant) to vote against the Giants move from New York.

>Announcers:  Ralph Kiner, Bob Murphy, and Lindsey Nelson, the original 3.
>		I will not accept Tim McCarver on this list because I don't
>		like him; Rusty Staub is the color commentator

I like Timmy.  He's good to listen to.  Rusty is OK.  I hate Fran Healy
and wish SportsChannel would dump him.  Oh well...

Today, in a day when they have two or three people per booth, Murphy,
Nelson and Kiner did it all.  When the games were televised (in a day
when not every game was televised) the three rotated between television
and the radio with one providing color commentary on a rotating basis.
Bob Murphy always opened up on radio: "Well HI everybody, this is Bob
Murphy..." rang from radios from backyards in my neighborhood during
those hot summer bar-b-ques!

-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball