HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: canders%lacerta.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AK variations
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:16:08 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Nathan, get a PolyTech National Match AK-47.  I beleive this is the
best AK-47 on the market.  Match Grade parts are used in its manufacturing
and it has a 20" barrel instead of the standard 16" barrel on most others.
The receiver is forgded.  It is probably the most expensive AK on the
market.

cea.
From: wchaga@vela.acs.oakland.edu (William C. Haga)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Classic American Rifleman magazines
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:32:10 GMT
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

My father has these older issues of The American Rifleman
in his possession and asked me to find out: (1) Are they
worth anything as collectibles, and (2) Is there anyone
out there who would like to make a bid on them?  They are
in good to very good condition; the pages show almost no
yellowing.

The American Rifleman, published by the National Rifle Assoc.

    April    1930
    June     1930
    July     1930
    November 1931
    December 1931
    August   1939
    May      1941
    October  1941
    May      1942

Please send email if you have any interest.

Bill (wchaga@vela.acs.oakland.edu)
From: mhickey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (No One)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm hand gun questions
Date: 10 Jan 93 04:34:46 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

After waiting years for this moment I am now faced with a nearly
impossible decicion.  I am about to turn 21 and I can finally 
register for a firearms permit and purchase my first pistol.

I am certain that I want to get a 9mm semi-auto.  But there are 
a dizzying number of them out on the market.  I honestly don't
know where to begin.

I have heard a great deal about Glocks, Barretas (sp?), Rugers,
ans Brownings.  But most of the info I have recieved has been via
advertisements.  

Please, if you have any info that might be helpful, send me an e-mail.
Detailed reasons why I should choose a particular gun would greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

mhickey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
From: tmoore@tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9 vs .38 Stupid
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:45:16 GMT

Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil writes...
    
->I also note references to ".38 Stupid" on this thread, which seem to
->imply that the .38 Super is not an ideal round for use in high-capacity
->semi-autos. Considering that it's been around since before most if not
->all IPSC shooters were born, is that a surprise?

I'm not sure where the .38 Stupid came from.  We were using it in self-
mockery years before the high capacity 1911s came out.  I think it 
refers to the .38 supers knack for blowing case heads before we learned
to use fully supported barrels (IPSC major loads only).  The owner of a
gun that experienced this phenomenon was said to have a case of 
"Super Face".  Ha Ha!  Pretty funny no?  I've never seen a super bust
a case but I've seen plenty of .45s blow (overloads) and one 9x19
loaded to major that wrecked a S&W auto (pre-major 9 controversy years,
a real pioneer this guy was).

As for high capacity .38 supers I've seen plenty of Caspians that seem
to work fine although I know of one prominent gunsmith who advises
using 9x21 in those frames.  The McCormick seems to love the super.
I've seen several Para Ordnances that don't work and a few that do. 
Tanfoglio is also producing a CZ type frame for the super which seems
surprising to me. 

-Tim
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Federal Firearms License ?
Date: 9 Jan 93 22:15:37 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1993Jan8.155911.5070@mcs.kent.edu>
	sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:
#Does anyone know how I may go about obtaining a Federal Firearms
#License.

Contact the BATF Licensing Office 1-800-366-5423 and ask for an
FFL dealer application.  It currently costs $30 and is good for 3
years.  There is also an FFL collection license, which allows you
to mailorder "curio and relic" firearms.  There may be state and
local licenses required as well.

#I understand that I will be able to mailorder as a
#dealer after obtaining one.

Yes, but if you have a dealer license you need to conduct a
business, otherwise the BATF will shut you down.

#What other type of license would I have to have to own and use
#(target of course) some of the full auto "toys" that some of you
#are talking about.

This varies by state and sometimes locality.  Federal law requires
you go thru an FBI background check, provide two sets of finger
prints, two passport size photos, pay a $200 transfer tax, and sing
the national anthem backwards.  The first transfer can take a
few months, after that they can go faster.

#Will this license transfer to any location within the US should I move?

You have to notify BATF where you are moving so they can keep track
of the weapon.  If the state and city law you are moving to allow
machine gun ownership by civilians then the move shouldn't be a problem.

#My reason I would like this other license is that I would like to
#purchase one of the new M16's that shoot the 3-shot bursts. ...
#Anyone know if an individual may purchase one of these.

The only machine guns that may be owned by civilians are those
manufactured and registered prior to May 19, 1986.  I believe the
three shot burst exists on some of those M16s.

Contact a local machine gun dealer for more information.

Just kidding about the national anthem ...
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: ka02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Kent P. Aitchison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sights
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:26:04 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University



    Why are the front sight ramps and the back sight slots so darn wide on
modern handguns?  I recently bought a Buckmark and a Super Blackhawk Hunter
(.44) thinking I could do some interesting handiwork with them.  Don't get me
wrong, I love them both and have already had hours of fun, but the sights drive
me nuts.  These things are a mile wide, completely obscuring targets.  How can
I expect to shoot bullseyes when the front ramp covers 3 rings at 25 yards?

    OK, I'm not a highly trained shooter, neither do I have years of experience
- yet.  But I have to believe that thinner slots and blades offer a greater
ability to train the gun on the point of aim with precision.  Why then, instead
of pinpoints, are we using bowling alley sights on our handguns?  I understand
why I have them on my Glock, but these guns are not combat guns and are not
likely to find themselves in my holster.

    If I am wrong in my assumption that thin is better, I hope someone will
take the time to inform me.  Otherwise, could somebody please tell me what
replacement sights are available and how to get them?

    I would like to be able to reliably put down phone books or buckets at a
hundred yards with the Blackhawk.  Am I expecting too much?  Could I do
better?  As always, thanks for your knowledge.

Kent



-- 

****************************************
**     Kent P. Aitchison              **
**       ka02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu       **
**       Rauch Business Center 211    **
**       #37 Lehigh University        **
**       Bethlehem, PA  18015         **
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Major 9
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:57 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

##Somebody is also playing with a so-called "9x23", which is basically a
##rimless .38 Super. Why they couldn't start with 9mm Largo/Bergmann-Bayard
##(a rimless 9x23 cartridge) I don't know.
#
#	No kidding.   I wonder if the geniuses behind this project don't
#know that their holy grail already exists, or (more likely) just don't care.
#

The geniuses are John Ricco & company at CP bullets.  They had lots of 9x23
brass amde to their specifications, and there was no need to match any 
existing round.  This is a specialty round designed for IPSC, and CP
also carries reamers which open up 38 super bbls to 9x23 dimensions.
Fortunately, the CP price for 9x23 brass is barely more than the competetive
market for 38 super brass (substitute goods keeping the price donw! yeah!).

38 super still works fine for me, so there is no 9x23 conversion planned
in my future.
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45-70 Govt - .410 compatible?
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:14:26 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <1993Jan1.204856.12966@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu
(Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#  T/C is not the only company which makes barrels for the Contender.
#It is my understanding that it is the .410 aspect of the .45LC/.410
#which makes the T/C barrel unacceptable in CA, so another brand
#(I've seen info on at least two other makers, but the only name
#I remember is BullBerry) which is .45 LC only is probably ok in CA.
#I'd look for ads in Rifle or in Handloader.

Hi Henry,

I was just wondering, do gun stores in other parts of the country
usually carry the Thompson-Center COntender?  I've been looking for
them lately because I want to see what the local price range is and
none of the 4-5 places I've checked so far has carried them.

Are they usually something that you have to order?

  don "glad CA's governor is keeping those devastating single shot shotguns
       out of the hands of criminals :)"
From: DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:50 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <2935028528.1.p00140@psilink.com> p00140@psilink.com (Gary A. Woodward) writes:
#From: p00140@psilink.com (Gary A. Woodward)
#Subject: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
#Date: 2 Jan 93 14:17:51 GMT
#Well winter has settled in on us here in VA.  I've got permission to 
#hunt several farms in the spring and summer to kill groundhogs (it seems 
#a lot of hunters cannot differeniate between a street sign, a cow, and a 
#ground hog).  I like the prices of the Remingtons, but I have a question 
#about the benefits of a .17 cal vs .223 for long rang varmiting.  I do 
#not choose to reload at least in the begining-so exotic calibres are 
#out.  Also a recommendation for a good variable X scope would be 
#appreciated. Thanks in advance. 
#
#Regards.
#
#Gary


For a period of years beginning about 12 or 13 years ago, I occupied myself 
by eliminating the groundhog population around Warrenton, VA when my wife 
and I visited her parents on their farm there.  The range that seemed to be 
most typical was between 200 and 300 yards. 

For the first several years I used a .22-250 with a fixed 10x scope.  I did 
reload and used a more fragile bullet at a bit higher speeds than available 
factory loads.  I was totally pleased with the performance of round.  I 
don't recall ever being disappointed.  I was using a Mark-X mauser with a 
rather thin barrel though, and was never totally pleased with it and the 10x 
scope really wasn't the ticket either.

After a few years I ran accross a very nice bull-barreled Mod. 700BDL 
Remington in .223 with a nice 3x-12x scope.  Since I was already loading 
.223, it seemed like a natural.  Ever since I have loved the rifle and the 
scope, and have never been pleased with the performance of the .223 when 
comparing it to the .22-250 in that particular usage.  Further, a bit later 
I purchased a bull-barreled Ruger No. 1 in .25-'06.  I found it to be a bit 
much in Northern VA, even in the early '80s.  Population densities are even 
greater there now.  After saying all that, it is entirely possible that the 
.223 and shorter ranges would be just the ticket, if your area of VA has 
grown houses as fast as the area around Warrenton.  

DGA
From: rliles@spuds.mlb.semi.harris.com (Ray Liles)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:27:31 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

Within the past week, there have been 5 cases of home invasion in the Orlando,
Florida area.  The incidents occur in the early evening, when everyone is awake
and typically watching television.  The *invaders* violently crash or break in,
using the element of surprise.  All have been armed and there are generally 3
or more.

In all 5 cases, the invaders were after money and jewelry.  I think there was
only one case in which they took an electronic item.  By the way, this is not a
gang that has hit 5 times -- there are different groups.  I can not remember all
the stats, but in at least 2 incidents gun fire was used by the invaders, even
when the victims were not armed.

Yes, I have protection and security devices, but I don't profess to be RAMBO.
I would appreciate *practical* solutions and tactical recommendations for 
handling the situation.  This is obviously beyond the typical, single intruder,
sneaking into your house.

Ray
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  \  \  \                                         |  Harris Semiconductor     
   \--\--\                                        |  Mail Stop 58-032         
    \ |\  \                                       |  P.O. Box 883             
      |      WA4VME                               |  Melbourne, Florida 32902 
      |      Ray H. Liles                         |  407-729-4640 (Office)    
      |      rliles@heimdall.mlb.semi.harris.com  |  407-729-4029 (FAX)       
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: AK-47
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:07 GMT


#Jerry, be advised that prior to 1986, AK-47 rifles were coming into this
#country with bayonet lugs and pistol grips; These are the more expensive
#variants and my preference.  The majority of the rifles being sold today
#are "post 86" rifles with thumbhole stocks and no bayonet lugs.

Minor correction:  that date is actually 1989, not 1986.  It was done
in response to Patrick Purdy, which was in January of that year.

#I think the best AK's are made by PolyTech.  Their "Legend Series" are milled

Hmmm.  Perhaps the best Chinese-made AK, but some would bet that the
Yugoslavian and Hungarian, and perhaps the Egyptian AKs are better....

Rob
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Auto Ordinance .45
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:15:13 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Dec28.161521.10018@walter.bellcore.com> bellcore!torque.bae.bellcore.com!sjs@uunet.UU.NET (Stephen Szymanski) writes:
#
#Does anyone know what the story is with the Auto Ordinance .45?
#It seems somewhat inexpensive for a .45 handgun.  
#
#Sorry for asking this is it has already been discussed, but
#someone I know is interested.
#
#-- 

They're heaps.  After Alpo, my dog makes better 45's.
They are VERY rough inside... and outside for that matter.

#******************************************************************************
#
#Disclaimer:
#
#The opinions expressed herein are solely my own and are not shared by Bellcore
#nor any of its owner companies.
#
#******************************************************************************
#

The opinions are my own and are shared by anyone thyat has ever had
to deal with an Auto Ord 45.


Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: f_harris@oz.plymouth.edu (Frank N. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Bulk 9mm, .44 rounds ??
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:24:55 GMT
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.

I do not follow this group much so my apologies if this was posted in
the past BUT..... I am looking for bulk (1000-2000) ammo for the above
at REASONABLE prices. Any ideas ??? It's getting expensive buying by
the box !!!!!!!!
PLEASE e-mail direct, I will get it quicker...THANX !!
Thanx in advance,

Frank

*******************************************************************************
                          *                                   
f_harris@oz.plymouth.edu  *    "That's not a gun...         
			  *	THIS IS A GUN !!!!!!
                          *              - Crocodile Dundee  (with a twist) 
*******************************************************************************
--
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Source of .308 ammo
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:05:09 GMT
Organization: who knows

wthomas@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Thomas) writes...
# 
#continue receiving suggestions from the readers concerning
#good sources of .308 for shooting target.  One interesting
#aspects of the comments that I have presently received, both on
#and off the news net, is is the opinion that NORINCO's non-corrosive
# .308 ammo is really pretty darn good. What does everyone else think?

I thought that the Norinco .308 was corrosive?
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 'falling' bullets
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:17:59 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280

#>>>> On 9 Jan 93 14:25:32 GMT, bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) said:

russ> Sorry, Patrick, but you are wrong in saying that.  A bullet
russ> falling vertically seldom exceeds 300 fps vertically but usually
                                         ^
	where did you get this number? 

russ> exceeds that when fired.  Most folks that are accidentally hit
russ> by a bullet and killed are hit by bullets travelling
russ> horizontally.
From: ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What's the difference between trap, skeet, and sporting clays?
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:00:05 GMT


I was wondering what is the difference between the various shotgun
sports.  I've heard the terms trap, skeet, and sporting clays.  What
do they mean?  Also, I'd like to try shotgunning, but I can't think
of an easy way to try it out.  When I wanted to start handgunning, I
just went to the indoor range and rented a gun.  I don't know where
to go for shotgunning.  Any suggestions?

					Thanks in advance,

					Matt Harrington

-- 
Matthew B. Harrington
mbharrington@ucsd.edu
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Buying bullets w/o loading data
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:30 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1993Jan4.220551.18830@guinness.idbsu.edu> betz%gozer@uunet.UU.NET (Andrew Betz) writes:
#hi folks;
#
#aways back i requested addresses for a source for lead 9mm bullets.
#looks like the cheapest for me is master class bullets ($31/1000, ppd).
#anyhow, i'm aware that seating depth is a critical factor in
#reloading, but if i did buy bullets from master class, how would
#i know how far to seat them (note: i'm new to reloading)?
#i'd be happy to post the bullet weights and measurements.
#

It is more critical in rifle ammo.  For pistol ammo, check the MAX over all
length (OAL) and be less than and whatever feeds the best.  For me, the longer
the better.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: fountain@bach.udel.edu (Eric Randolp Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gattling principle, Minigun
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:14:42 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1993Jan5.053650.15938@fuug.fi> an4405@anon.penet.fi (Physics Smurf) writes:
#Hello there!
#
#I was just wondering why General Electric decided to revive the Gattling
#principle when it designed the M230 Minigun. Was there any specific
#military reason for its re-introduction or did they just think it a good
#idea at the time?
The idea is that you can increase the rate of fire of the weapon and not
run into overheating problems.  Since each barrel is only receiving a
portion of the fire, it isn't going to heat up as quickly as a single
barrel gun firing at the same speed.  
The Vulcan (gatling) principal was reintroduced first for the GE 20mm
Vulcan for on planes, where you (assumedly) need a high rate of fire
to make up for the fact that at Mach 2, the guy (gal) isn't going to
stay in your sights for long.  The other, older option was multiple
guns (multiple headaches).
Eric
Fountain@brahms.udel.edu
From: DENNIS_@ncsu.edu (DGA)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:48 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1993Jan6.194756.21697@mcs.kent.edu> sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:
#From: sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott)
#Subject: Re: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
#Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:56 GMT
#In article <viking.726287414@vincent1.iastate.edu>, viking@iastate.edu (Dan
#Sore nson) writes:
#
#<stuff deleted>
#
#|> useful in certain situations.  There are quite a few variable-magnification
#|> scopes on the market, and I find the lower magnification is excellent for
#|> spotting a target or sweeping a field, and the higher magnification is
#   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#
#I don't think this is a good recommendation to use a scope while mounted on a
#rifle for this.  Everywhere those crosshairs pass - that rifle is pointing. 
#I can't speak for all - but I don't want even an "unloaded" gun pointing at
#me.  Use a spotting scope or binoculars for this purpose - NEVER the rifle
#scope.
#
#Stephen.
#

You spoke well for me, Stephen.  I don't think many of our fellow shooters 
would consider pointing a rifle at someone ten feet away, so I am constantly 
amazed that they will point the same rifle at someone 200 yards away with 
abandon.  Come on guys, you have seen the bullets hit out there haven't you?

DGA
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Norinco
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:34:56 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

Does anyone know what year Norinco was created?  Did they start
to do business with the U.S. at the same time?  Thanks.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: How does BATF define "readily convertible to full-auto"?
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:14:42 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <199301120428.AA13630@sun.Panix.Com> justice@Panix.Com (Michael Justice) writes:
#Can anyone enlighten me (et alia :-) on what criteria the BATF uses to
#classify a gun as "readily convertible" to full-auto? 

I believe it is considered "readily convertable" if a BATF gunsmith,
with access to a full machine shop, etc... can convert it to full
auto within a certain time (8 hours?)

#If I'm wrong about the purpose of the BATF rulings on this subject, I'd
#appreciate hearing that, too.  (The rulings, to me, seem to imply that
#these guns have been corralled into falling under the NFA restrictions.)

Pretty much: The National Firearms Act also regulates "parts which
can be assembled into" an automatic weapon, and BATF considers any
"readily convertable" weapon fit this description.

#In particular, if a rifle is not even a SEMIauto, can BATF claim that it
#violates the NFA?  (American Rifleman had an article a while back, which
#mentioned that Australia converted some Enfields to full-auto, and also
#that someone (John Browning?) had converted a lever-action to full-auto.)

I suppose it would be restricted if the BATF experts could convert it.
But the more common reason for a bolt or lever action to be restricted
is barrel length: A rifle with a barrel under 16" is also restricted by 
the Act. There is not, however, a "readily convertable" to a short-barrel
rifle restriction (which is a good thing, since all rifles are "readily
convertable" if you have a saw...)

                                             Frank Crary
                                             CU Boulder