HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hap@scubed.com (Hap Freiberg)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:18:17 GMT

>-- 
>Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science

Stephen, you got me to thinking again :-)...
Thought one: With regards to government funding, subsidies, whatever, I think
it all comes down to whose ox is gonna get gored or whose subsidy has the most
clout. At the moment the "conservatives" are most vociferous in their condem-
nation of subsidies of the arts: not the province of government (philosoph-
ical rationalization), let the marketplace decide (economical rationalization),
plus any and all critical (ugly, sacrilegious, incomprehensible, etc...) 
responses. Yet these same defenders of free enterprise fully support, often
demand, government support of prices for sugar, milk, and tobacco, etc.  They
also advocate oil-drillling and ore-mining on public lands for private profit,
virtually give away lumber rights and grazing rights on public lands again
for private profits. Therefore, the outcries against government subsidies
of the arts, IMHO, sound rather shrill and the reasoning specious. Whose ox...
Thought 2: I've also come to think that "conservatives" are scared spitless of
anything new or different be it political, diplomatic, artistic, and that it is
this fear that so deeply colors their thinking and reasoning. They seem not to
be for but to be against...

My $0.02 on the subject and I'm probably done. ;->

Hap
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: government and the arts
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:39:54 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

Someone has just asked what government has to do with good classical radio.
This is not meant to be a reply to the very good arguments put forward in that
post. 

In Britain, we have a very different political culture to that which pertains
in the US, as I understand it. We believe that some things: education, the
health of the population, the culture of the country are just too important to
be left to the vagaries and whims of free marketeers acting out of
self-interest. So, even among those few people who can afford private
education, private health care and tickets to unsubsidised opera (for example),
the issues of public funding for education, health and the arts are very
important. As I perceive it, these are not issues on the same scale in the US.
I apologise if I am wrong. 
			We in Britain have a venerable tradition of state
subsidy for the arts, and I believe that as a nation we are richer for it.
Unfortunately, in my view, in the 1980s the government was taken over by people
who put their faith in the free-market dogmas at work in the US, and threatened
to enforce those dogmas in the world of the arts. This policy began to bite at
the end of the 80s, and we saw many of the best companies under threat of
closure because they were unable to raise the private investment which the
government demanded. We also saw most of London's national museums charging for
entrance, which not even the hands-off government of the US has done.
Fortunately, the main architect of this threat was brought down from within her
own party by people who I like to think were not just motivated by the
realisation that she was unpopular. Her successor has, thank goodness,
abandoned the worst excesses of this regime, and the party that is very likely
to come into power after Thursday has pledged to continue refunding the arts in 
this country again.
		I have said nothing specific about radio here because I do not
think that it ought to be divorced from considerations about the rest of the
arts. Let government do its duty and support the nation's culture! Without it,
the arts will remain the preserve of the middle classes and the well-off.

Stephen Wilcox

JANET: wilcox@uk.ac.ox.maths
INTERNET: wilcox@maths.ox.ac.uk
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:5905 news.answers:1050
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Burgmuller, John Ogdon & Daniel Adni query
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:45:03 GMT

In article <_k5tzd@rpi.edu>, mccombt@cs.rpi.edu (Todd McComb) writes:
> In article <1992Apr10.122959.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> P. Longworth writes:
>>Also could someone please give me the full list of available John Ogdon
>>compact discs:
> 
> I don't know about the full list, but Ogdon's recording of Sorabji's
> Opus Clavicembalisticum on Altarus 9075 is surely one of greatest
> productions of the modern recording era.

Well said! The same label also has his amazing recording of Busoni's
Fantasia Contrappuntistica. And EMI have reissued his astounding
recording of the Busoni Piano Concerto, which beats even the Donohoe
recording to my ears. Ogdon was a GREAT pianist and his untimley death
and sparse recorded legacy a tragedy. Interestingly the English seem to
have specialised in tragic, or underrecorded, pianists.

-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,comp.music
From: cas@media.mit.edu (Nigel Tufnel)
Subject: Re: Help, which instrument?
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:09:02 GMT

>>	I have no musical potential/intelligence.
>
>DEFINITELY recorder.  8-)
 
Camcorder?
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: CHICAGOESE: Come again?, or Today's Chuckle
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:58:11 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <dikig.701647440@ddsw1> dikig@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Diki Gust) writes:

>Coconuts is currently advertising
>a sale featuring the Hairy Janice Suite conducted by Neamie Yarvey.

I think that's better than the Hairy Anus Suite, which is how our army
band announcer used to say it.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: shawn@litsun.epfl.ch (Shawn Koppenhoefer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tango music for Violin??
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:25:37 GMT
Reply-To: shawn@litsun.epfl.ch
Distribution: rec
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne



Does anyone know of anywhere where I can pick up sheet music or
SOMETHING that has tango music for the violin??? Music stores?
friends? family? I'm having the devil of a time tracking anything
down!

thanx.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Shawn E. Koppenhoefer 		       shawn@litsun.epfl.ch
EL-Ecublens, CH-1015 Lausanne SWITZERLAND +41 21 693 47 03
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde@gopher.standord.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 21:43:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.034434.19767@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <fyvjd4p.vlad@netcom.com> vlad@netcom.com
> (Vladimir Kuznetsov) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr12.010721.20787@Princeton.EDU> 
>roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>>Can you name an opera house on earth that is not government supported?
>
>>Here, in San Francisco.
>
>You sure about that?  Are they a for=profit company receiving no grants
>from the State of California or from the NEA?  

Just for the record, if I remember right, the San Fransisco Opera is a 
non-profit organisation, about half of its revenues come from ticket sales,
roughly half from donations. Of these donations, government grants (local,
state, federal) represent only 5% of total revenues.  The Opera is currently
suffering from budget difficulties, mainly driven, it seems, by an explosive
growth in salaries (performers, singers, musicians, technicians).

My sense is that its status as a non-profit, weakly subsidized entity forces
it to be as efficient as possible; in a way it would never be if it were a 
fat bureaucracy with a guaranteed bottomless subsidy from the government.
(Call me a denizen of the conservative right :-)
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler on disc
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:18:35 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Apr15.130257.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:

>                      "MY TIME IS YET TO COME"
>                        THE SYMPHONIES OF
>                          GUSTAV MAHLER
>                            ON RECORD.
>                               by
>                           Deryk Barker.


[A very interesting and well-informed comparison of Mahler recordings,
for which much thanks.  I'd naturally disagree at points -- any two
people would -- but I'll confine my comments to points where I think an
addendum might be helpful.]

>For those who insist on a digital recording (shame on you!) 
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Amen to this!  Even if one is put off by 78-era or mono sound, there are
so many wonderful stereo recordings that predate the digital era.  Back
to 1958 or thereabouts, often thrillingly engineered (and performed,
which is of course the important thing).

[Second Symphony]
>My prime recommendation is for Simon Rattle's inspired 1986
>version (EMI) with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra. 

I bought this on the basis of the (largely British) rave reviews it got
on release.  I agree it's good, but how many feel it's really all THAT
outstanding?  This is a genuine puzzled question.  I hear a fair amount
of undercharacterized (underarticulated and -dynamicized) playing, for
which I hold the conductor partly responsible too.

[8th Symphony]
>Incidentally, Descant are apparently planning to release the
>legendary 1959 Horenstein performance, recorded live in London,
>in the near future. This will undoubtedly be well worth
>investigating.

I have an LP pressing of this performance.  Students of the work and of
Horenstein will undoubtedly be interested, but others would be well
advised to steer clear.  It's almost impossible to hear what's going on,
partly because the recording is so congested and partly because people
are getting lost all over the place.  Exciting at the time it may have
been; but I can't consider it a very good performance as heard via the
recording.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: ridgway@mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Good Perf Major Schools?????
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:53:35 GMT
Organization: MIT

I'll put in a plug for New England Conservatory, in Boston, and for Boston
University, in Boston. BOth have top-notch string departments, with faculty
from the BSO (Jules Eskin, cello, for instance). Boston also has, and the
schools draw faculty from, some of the best "free-lance" players in the world,
for both orchestral and chamber music. Students also find lots of opportunities
to play in the area - and often get paid for it!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bryan@netcom.com (Bryan Higgins)
Subject: Re: Any good pre-Baroque compilations?
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 22:21:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

martino@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr) writes:

>I was wondering if anyone knew of any good pre-baroque CD sets or something
>like that that are available, I've recently been getting into guys like
>Monteverdi, Scarlatti, Bonelli, etc. (gee I wonder if any of them are 
>Italian) whose music really fascinates me, there's something different
>about these composers that make them sound different than Bach, Handel, etc.
>Sorry if I sound like I don't know much about classical music, I'm only
>vaguely familiar with different eras like Romantic, Baroque, etc.  Any
>other good pre-Baroque stuff appreciated also. Thanks!

Scarlatti is in fact baroque, or even post-baroque.  You're right that he
sounds way different than Bach or Handel, but it's due to geographical
isolation (in Portugal and Spain) rather than being older (he was born the
same year as Bach and Handel, 1685).

As to Medieval and Renaissance music, there's a ton of stuff available on
recording.  Let's see ... for a start, check out the Monteverdi Vespers.
-- 
Bryan Higgins, Berkeley, California  (bryan@netcom.com)
From: iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Jascha Horenstein - help requested
Date: 17 Apr 92 10:44:09 PDT
Organization: Security Pacific Automation Co., LA, CA

>>I am currently preparing a discography of the great, and greatly underrated,
>>conductor Jascha Horenstein. I am trying to track down every issue of
>>every recording he made, so if anyone has any of his recordings I should
>>be very grateful for the following info:
>>	Composer, Title, Artists, Label, Catalogue Number

>>together with any dates (recording, publication) which may appear.


I am posting this because I assume that I'll have the same problem with
e-mail as a previous respondent.

Schoenberg: Transfigured Night, Op. 4 and Chamber Symphony op 9.
            Turnabout/vox number TV 34263
            Symphony Orchestra of South-West German Radio, Baden-Baden
            Cond. Jascha Horenstein

Good luck with your discography.  Hope this helps.

David Cohen
From: sasdrf@daedalus.unx.sas.com (Dave Frederick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler on disc
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:37:08 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasdrf@daedalus.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 2664

In article <28945@brahms.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr15.130257.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
|>
|> >                      "MY TIME IS YET TO COME"
|> >                        THE SYMPHONIES OF
|> >                          GUSTAV MAHLER
|> >                            ON RECORD.
|> >                               by
|> >                           Deryk Barker.
|>
|>
|> [A very interesting and well-informed comparison of Mahler recordings,
|> for which much thanks.  I'd naturally disagree at points -- any two
|> people would -- but I'll confine my comments to points where I think an
|> addendum might be helpful.]

Agreed. Thanks to Deryk for this extraordinary posting. While there is
certain to be disagreement among us, at least he has offered suggestions
for recordings of fresh (to me, at least) performances. I'll probably
spend the rest of my life, however, looking for a recording of the
third that even hints at its greatness when heard live.

|>
|> >For those who insist on a digital recording (shame on you!)
|>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> Amen to this!  Even if one is put off by 78-era or mono sound, there are
|> so many wonderful stereo recordings that predate the digital era.  Back
|> to 1958 or thereabouts, often thrillingly engineered (and performed,
|> which is of course the important thing).

While I have a few analog vinyl recordings which I occassionaly listen
to (Walter's Ninth will never be outdone, and I also have some by
Horenstein, Tennstedt, and Kubelik), I still look to complete my
collection of digital recordings. Yes, the interpretations on these
older recordings will be difficult, if not impossible, to be bettered.
But, due to their sheer scale, Mahler symphonies have never recorded
well. The contrast between such massive forces and small chamber-like
ensembles just never came out well with analog recording techniques.
Digital provides a wider range, but a plethora of fair to good (but
rarely great) performances. Yes, the performance is the important thing,
but it must be presented in a reasonable manner. I own Horenstein's
sixth on vinyl, and while I prefer his interpretation to the Chailly
I own on CD, the brass are begging for mercy by the end, and the hammer
blows are indistinct, while the Chailly is a decent but not great
reading with much more presence, and the third hammer blow in particular
is terrifying. Of course, until someone conducts these works as well
as Walter on a digital recording, there is a need for both.

Dave Frederick                          sasdrf@unx.sas.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: c9005189@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (THE GUS BUS TRAVELS AT MACH 4)
Subject: Burgmuller, John Ogdon & Daniel Adni query
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:29:59 GMT


Hello readers!!!!!!!

Can anyone list any really good Compact Discs which contain music by
Burgmuller!

I really enjoy Burgmuller's work, and would like a few good recommendations!
I am particular after his piano works.....

Also, I am interested in acquiring some of the late John Ogdon's compositions.

And finally, I would like to know if anyone has heard of a classical pianist
performer called Daniel Adni.

Clue: I have a Compact Disc with John Ogdon and Daniel Adni playing the piano

It is an EMI label called "Piano Favourites" (and is really great value)

I would like to know if there are any other Compact Discs with Daniel Adni
performing?

Also could someone please give me the full list of available John Ogdon
compact discs:



						Thank you for your help




						P. Longworth
		
						University of Newcastle

						Newcastle, Australia.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: Re: buying harpsichord
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:35:32 GMT

Prices of good, new harpsichords depend on the type and the maker, but in
general, prices range: virginal/spinet - $3000 to $6000; single - $6000 to
$10,000; double - $15,000 to $25,000. THe best way to find out for sure is to
contact several makers and ask for their catalogs and price lists. Seeing that
you are at Yale, you are close to several good builders in the New England/New
York region. Also, being at Yale, you can get good (but probably not unbiased)
advice from harpsichordists in the music department and at the Yale Musical Instrument
collection (they have an excellent collection of historic keyboard instruments).

You may want to consider a good used instrument. Get in touch with the
Harpsichord CLearing House, in Rehoboth, Mass. They have an 800 number which you
can get from 800 information (I don't have it with me). They have listings of
instruments that people around the country want to sell, and usually have a good
selection in their shop on consignment. Worth a nice spring-day's drive from New
Haven!

Unless you are very good at detailed handicrafts and woodwork, or very persistent,
and have LOTS of time, stay away from a kit.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)
Subject: Re: Sibelius Violin Concerto
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 13:59:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.174152.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>In article <996@xlnt.COM>, david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr7.020718.15812%mr804321@cs.nthu.edu.tw>, mr804321@cs.nthu.edu.tw (mr80) writes:

>> 
>> Pardon my ignorance, what are the other three greatest violin concerti?
>> I can think of what would be considered the four most *popular* violin
>> concerti but I think it is difficult to say which are the four greatest.
>
>I agree, but I'll stick my neck out anyway. IN my opinion they are,
>chronologicall, Beethoven, Brahms, Sibelius and Elgar.
>
As tradition dies hard w.r.t. classical music, I think  the standard
"four most popular" violin concerti are Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaik, and
Mendelssohn.  Of course, as we've seen, this doesn't necessarily match
anyone's "favorites"--(in my case, only one of these 4 makes it--I'd
take the Barber, Sibelius, and Bruch over the Beethoven, Brahms and
Mendelssohn any day).
--j.e.f.



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Memorable (?) cover art.
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:51:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.002021.13347@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, ray@gawain.cif.rochester.edu (Raymond Sunessen Tuttle) writes:
> 
> And what about those wacky Westminster Gold issues from the 70's? Does anyone
> remember covers for their Ring Cycle? I think "Die Walkure" had a photograph
> on the cover showing a pigtailed blonde woman shielding her breasts with the
> hubcaps from a Volkswagon.
> 
> Is there anyone else out there who has weird and wonderful memories of
> LP covers?

Yes indeed, there was the (I think) Westminster release of Boult conducting
Holst's Planets, with a man and woman on the front in Buck Rogers-style
"sci fi" outfit, the woman's skirt being outrageously short (influence of
Star trek?). Or my favourite, an Italian (Movimento Musica) release of
Furtwaengler conducting Beethoven's 7th. On the cover is a male ballet 
dancer, with bulging tights; over his head is superimposed a picture
of Beethoven's. (Hey, "apotheosis of the dance" right?)

-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
From: ramesh@cs.UAlberta.CA (Ramesh S. Sankaranarayana)
Subject: Tabla
Keywords: tabla, north america
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:34:49 GMT

	Does anyone out there know if one can buy a tabla in USA or Canada, and
if yes, where? Also, what would the approximate price be? My email address can 
be found in my signature. Thanks in advance.

--
Ramesh S. Sankaranarayana              |        Email : ramesh@cs.ualberta.ca
Department of Computing Science        |        Home  : (403)-436-7906
University of Alberta,                 |        Off.  : (403)-492-3977
Edmonton T6G 2H1, CANADA               |
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: <None>
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:16:18 GMT

I recently appealed for information for a discography I am preparing
of the conductor Jasch Horenstein. From some of the replies I have already
had it's obvious I wasn't quite specific enough in my request.
I am looking for _any_ and _all_ info anybody can give me, including
every issue, no matter how obscure, of any recording by him. So, if you
have Horenstein conducting Beethoven on a Mexican LP you picked up
on vacation, or on an Argentinian 45 your great-Aunt sent you, please
send me the details. yes I _am_ interested and no I _don't_ necessarily
already know about it.

Thanks again.
-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:5952 comp.music:2461