From: alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Too many standards
Keywords: 2167A, IEEE, ISO
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:01:51 GMT
Followup-To: comp.software-eng
Organization: IBM AWD Austin, TX

In article <wegner.718286298@gmd.de> wegner@gmd.de (Eberhard Wegner) writes:
>In <1992Oct2.161426.6074@inesc.pt> belen@rabbit.inesc.pt (Belen de Vicente) writes:
>>I'm a little confused with software engineering standards, there are
>>so many: DoD-2167A, ANSI/IEEE, ISO, ...
>>I would like to classify them in order to have a clue to decide
>>when I should choose one or another!
>>Can anyone help me?
>
>ISO, IEC and ISO/IEC standards are Internationals standards (i.e. worldwide).
>ANSI/IEEE standards are national US standards, adopted by the US national
>standards body, viz. ANSl.

This is reasonably close to the truth  :-)   The ISO standards (and I assume
you are *really* interested in the ISO 9000 series, i.e. ISO 9001, 9002,
9003, and 9004) were drawn up from an international committee of
standards committees, including ANSI (the American National Standards
Institute).  The respective national committees then (largely) adopted
the ISO standards as their own, effectively consolidating them.  For example,
the ANSI Q90-Q94 series IS the ISO 9000 series, and vice-versa.
Another example:  Spain's UNE 66 900 IS ISO 9000, UNE 66 901 is ISO 9001,
etc.

Therefore, when in doubt, good professional practice would be to
consult the ISO standards.


>IEEE standards are non standards proper but were adopted by a registered
>association.

They were created by committees of practicing professionals and
academicians, and adopted by IEEE.  A good example is IEEE/ANSI 829-83,
the Software Testing Standard.  These then became input into the ISO
standards via ANSI.

There is a lot of *very* good thinking that went into the IEEE standards,
so they can serve as useful, practical reference material.


>DoD standards are organization-internal standards, also known outside that
>organization.

US Department of Defense (DoD) standards are a little different, as
you would expect (one difference is a notable increase in paperwork! :-)
An example is Mil-Spec 2167a and 2168, the Software Development Process
Model and SQA standards, respectively.  These are publicly available,
but frankly it is wise to consult experts in Mil-Spec standards before
implementation, since to a large extent they can and should be tailored
for your particular situation.

>There are also CCITT recommendations (telecommunication) having more
>binding force than all these standards (which are recommendations).

CCITT makes standards regarding telecommunications, but many countries
still have their own quirks.  ISO 9000 standards are fast becoming
*requirements* for vendor-customer relationships.


>>Are there also any european standards being used as much as american ones?
>Some ISO, IEC and ISO/IEC standards were adopted as European standards - which
>is useful because then the members of the European Committee for Standard-
>ization (CEN), all being national standards bodies and members of ISO, have
>to withdraw different standards on the same topic. By this identity there are
>European standards which are at the same time International standards
>adopted as US national standards. - I do not know of any European standard
>not being an International standard but adopted as an ANSI standard --
>please ask ANSI.

Again, ANSI Q90 *is* ISO 9000, etc.  Each country that participated in
ISO essentially bought-into the process, and so the ISO standards are
de facto international standards.  It would therefore be a gross distortion
to claim that the ISO standards are international standards, while
the ANSI standards are American standards (only) and they are different.
Not true.  For once  :-)


>>Which is the rigth way to select an standard when you do not have
>>one already imposed?
>International standards first, national standards of your country then,
>professional standards (like IEEE) and standards from manufacturers'
>associations (like ECMA) next, organization-internal ones last.
>
>>Too many questions, I'm sorry.
>No. Please ask more questions.
>>-- 
>
>>	Belen de Vicente
>>	E-mail.- belen@rabbit.inesc.pt
>>	

This is interesting advice.  In most American companies, the order
looks something like this:

1.  Your companies' standard FIRST -- if you don't follow your own
firm's procedures and process model, start polishing up your resume' !

2.  Whatever standards you can bring into the firm and sell to
upper management, middle management, and staff (note the AND, nor OR).

The job of a Quality Manager is partially composed of aligning the
two above, by the way.  But Eberhard is correct -- if you are so
charged, go for the ISO standards first.  They represent the best
of the world's current thinking.

In the United States, moreover, there are other quality initiatives
such as the Malcolm Baldridge Award, the Software Engineering
Institute (SEI), etc.  And of course, many people are doing research
into process models, standards, metrics, etc.

I agree with Eberhard -- keep asking questions.

-- 
   _  Alan R. Weiss   IBM AWD Austin AIX Kernel   11501 Burnet Rd, Bld 905
 _| ~-. auntbea.austin.ibm.com!alan@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com | Austin, TX 78758
 \, *_} Inside IBM:  alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com        | 512-838-8715
   \(   DISCLAIMER:  Working at, not speaking for, IBM  |
From: adw@otter.hpl.hp.com (Dave Wells)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:29:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Testing (Was: Do Software Engineers Actualy Do So Badly?)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.