Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:34:46

    Arval wrote:

 JM> Thank you, Tadhg.  Your position is now crystal clear ...

    Always has been, to those who care to listen.

 JM> ... and I agree that
 JM> this is how Laurel and much of the College of Arms views its role in the
 JM> SCA: "Our period deals with Western Europe".  That is precisely the
 JM> problem: The corporation says that our period is "western culture", which
 JM> clearly includes more than just western Europe.

    Pray elucidate the logic behind that conclusion; I must confess it
    escapes me. I am particularly interested to find out just what
    non-European "Western Culture" had "tournaments" and "jousts", which
    are specifically cited in the Articles of Incorporation (II.b) as
    exemplifying "activities and events which recreate the environment of
    said era".

 JM> The College of Arms is restricting the scope of the Society and in
 JM> doing so is overstepping its mandate.

    Incorrect. The College does not restrict the scope of the Society in
    any way, it merely restricts the scope of what it will register. This
    is well within its mandate, as may be discovered by reading Corpora
    IV.C.2 and IV.C.3.

 JM> Corpora states that Laurel's job is to develop rules that "support the
 JM> historical recreations of the Society".  Not "the historical
 JM> recreations of the College of Arms" and not "the subset of the
 JM> historical recreations of the Society that appeal to Laurel", but the
 JM> historical recreation of the ENTIRE Society.

    And any *historical* recreation will have as one of its characteristics
    a consistent armorial style, as any period heraldic jurisdiction
    demonstrably had.

    What Corpora does *not* say (although you appear to believe that it
    does) is that Laurel's job is to develop rules (or, rather, a lack of
    them) that will accomodate the "I want what I want" recreations of the
    ENTIRE Society, which far too often contain elements that are
    misinformed or misapplied.

 JM> You are quite correct that each medieval heraldic jurisdiction
 JM> developed a consistent style.  The SCA is not a medieval heraldic
 JM> jurisdiction.

    We are, however, attempting to emulate one. Granted that there are
    areas in which our emulations must necessarily compromise with
    authenticity; this, however, is not one of them.

 JM> We are not creating, we are re-creating.  Our goal as an organization
 JM> is to study and reproduce what they did, not to create something new.

    I can think of nothing more "new" than the hodge-podge that you've been
    advocating. Your arguments appear rather ... inconsistent, shall we say.

 JM> You are interested in developing a consistent style, and as an
 JM> individual artisan you are welcome to pursue that goal, but that is
 JM> not the purpose of the Society nor is it the purpose of the College of
 JM> Arms.

    You are intrested in exploring all of the cultural diversity available
    to the broad period that we cover, and as an individual artisan you
    are welcome to pursue that goal; but, however much that may be the
    purpose of the Society (an assertion I think open to challenge), that
    is not the purpose of the College of Arms, nor has it been over the
    last quarter century.
    
 JM> Corpora does not direct Laurel to develop a consistent style.

    Neither does it direct Laurel to let in anything that can be found to
    have happened at least once in period.

 JM> You prefer to deal with the armory of western Europe, and as an
 JM> individual artisan you are welcome to choose your matter as you wish,
 JM> but that is not the scope of the Society.

    As an individual artisan, you are welcome to choose your matter as you
    wish; I trust you'll pardon me if I choose to follow my own judgment in
    this respect rather than submit to your dogmatic decrees regarding what
    constitutes "the scope of the Society".

 JM> Corpora does not empower Laurel to re-define the scope of the Society.

    Nor does he do so, misapprehensions to the contrary notwithstanding.

 JM> Individually we may study, re-create, and teach whatever we wish; if
 JM> we accept the responsibility of being officers of the corporation then
 JM> we are bound to support all of the Society.

    No, we are merely obliged to support those elements of the Society who
    attempt to advance the avowed purposes of the Society. We are not just
    in a play, at liberty to make it up as we go along; we are bound
    (however tenuously) to authenticity, and so long as we constitute a
    single Known-World-wide unitary heraldic jurisdiction, that requirement
    of authenticity binds us to have a consistent armorial style, whether
    adopted from a period jurisdiction or developed on our own account.

Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca