HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff)
Subject: Should I install a gas furnace?
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:23:38 GMT


My house is currently heated by electric baseboard heaters. Last
winter my highest electric bills were in the $100 a month range. This
year I installed a timed setback thermostat and I expect to have lower
electric bills.

But ... my house does not heat well, and I really need to use
auxillary electric heaters to make it comfortable. So I've been
contemplating getting a gas line and a gas furnace (as well as a gas
water heater).  I haven't had an estimate given to me yet, but I
expect installation of the gas line, duct work, furnace, etc. will
cost over $4000 (a friend of mine just has this done).

Now adding a gas furnace will probably make my house more comfortable,
add something on to the value of the house (but certainly not 100% of
the cost), and lower my winter utility costs.

But payback in terms of money spent on the furnace compared to the
cost of electric heat will take over ten years in my estimate. And it's
unlikely I'll be in my house that long.

The gas company gives 9.75% loans for 60 months, so I wouldn't have to
put out a lot of money immediately if I chose to do so.

So is it worth it? I still haven't decided. Any advice will be
appreciated.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: When does it make sense to reduce the pricinple of your home loan?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 02:32:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.215130.9301@philabs.philips.com> mja@philabs.philips.com (Michael Amato) writes:
>
>On a realated note, if someone gave you $450,000 to build a house (incluing
>a $150,000 lot -> $300,000 for house), would it be better to:
>
>1. pay cash for house
>
>2. get a mortgage for say $150,000 - $200,000 and invest it other places.
>
>3. build a $250,000 house + lot and invest the other $200,000.
>
>Any comments?

I'd invest the whole thing, retire someplace cheap where I could fish,
pay rent, and live off the interest! Anyone know of a nice 10% mutual
fund? Maybe a tax-free 7% investment?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | New Jersey drivers are the best in the world.
George Patterson -  | They have to be to drive the way they do and
                    | survive.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: foo@netcom.com (Mark Hall)
Subject: Re: CREDIT REPORTS: They don't know the diff. between Jr. and Sr.?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:49:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.234359.5391@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
)In article <1993Jan12.135320.1@hmcvax.claremont.edu> dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu writes:
)>In article <barrett.726759980@cc.gatech.edu>, barrett@forge.gatech.edu (James Barrett) writes:
)>> ..............................................  It seems to me that 
)>> SSN should be enough to index.
)>
)>Problem is, if memory serves and the person who told me this knew
)>what they were talking about, it's illegal to use the SSN for
)>anything other than tax purposes. 

   nope, but many people think so.

   With the exception of the restrictions imposed on Federal and some
State and local organizations by the Privacy Act of 1974,
organizations requiring a unique identifier for purposes of
controlling their records are not prohibited from using (with the
consent of the holder) the SSN.

   - mark

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: doucas@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au (Chris Doucas)
Subject: Wiring house for Sound
Organization: BHP Information Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:06:13 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house

I've started building my house(sigh) and am planning my wiring needs with
regard to Stereo/sound. I have learnt of one system by Pioneer that lets
you control your stereo components(ie receiver, CD, volume, etc.) remotely.
For example, speakers in each room of the house can be fitted(or are
pre-fitted) with a sensor inside the speaker casing. I can walk around
the house with remote control in hand pointing to any speaker, changing the
songs(CD), volume, etc, no matter where the stereo system resides in my
house.

Anyone know of other vendors with the same features? $$$ is a major factor
here.
(I've already written away for wireless systems, but it seems to be too
new, not widely known, and not quite simple/inexpensive).   

>              ______________________________________________________________
Regards,      | BHP Information Technology | eMAIL:
-------       | PO Box 216                 |  doucas@cerberus.bhpese.oz.au 
              | Hamilton, NSW              | FAX:                PHONE:  
the Duke..    | Australia 2303             |  +(63) 49 40 2165 / ..40 2135 

   
                 >> A Fool With A Tool Is Still A Fool ! <<
From: u855ops12@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Patrick Blanchard)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Guttering
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:22:29 +1100
Organization: The University of Melbourne




   I have no doubt whatsoever that the subject of this post has been discussed 
before in this newsgroup but I'm a late-comer and I missed it so I apologise.
   Here goes:

   Guttering. I've never done it before but I think I've grasped the basic
principle: screw in the brackets out of level and stick up the guttering,
right?

   Beyond that, does any kind person have any handy hints or warnings that
might prevent me having to replace a water-soaked ceiling?


   Thanks in advance,



Patrick Blanchard,
Information Technology Services,
University of Melbourne,
Melbourne, Australia.


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: selvin@nynexst.com (Al Selvin)
Subject: How to remove paper backing from wallpaper?
Reply-To: selvin@nynexst.com
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:09:59 GMT


We removed some old wallpaper from the dining room of our
house. The vinyl-ish paper ripped right off the wall with
no problem, but left some sort of paper backing adhering
to the drywall beneath it.

We've heard that it's not good to steam off this kind
of backing, because it can get the drywall too wet.
Any truth to this? Any suggestions on how to remove it?
Can we just paint over it?

Thanks.
From: john.fix@hardgood.com (John Fix) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: MIND IN THE GUTTER
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:11:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Hardgoods East BBS - Eastchester, NY (914) 961-8749
Reply-To: john.fix@hardgood.com (John Fix) 

-> In article <MACRAKIS.93Jan11174057@lakatos.osf.org>

-> macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes

-> When there are leaves in the gutter, they block the gutter and the
-> downspouts.  Water then flows over the top of the gutter, and
-> trickles down the siding or falls onto the ground near the
-> foundation.

Not only that, but water sitting in the gutters can cause rotting at the
edges of the roof due to the moisture accumulating in the eaves.  So,
make sure gutters are pitched properly so they don't remain half-full
after a rain.

                                     -= John =-
                                                
----
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Hardgoods-East PCBoard  (914)961-8749 HST  (914)961-8590 DS  |
|  Eastchester, NY   -  Hardware retailing BBS f/Triad owners   |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Dimmer switches that don't buzz...
Date: 7 Jan 1993 14:32:00 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: moonlight.meaddata.com

I recently installed track lighting and a dimmer switch.  I bought a 
Leviton dimmer switch which said "insulated to prevent interference" 
or some such thing.  It looked like the standard Leviton dimmer, and
was the only one stocked at the hardware store.  It doesn't cause us
any interference, but the switch is about 20 feet from the tv.  The
lights themselves are near the tv.  The switch is a knob type, not
a slide type.

Consumer Reports did a review of dimmer switches within the last 3 months.
You might look at that.

-Mike Dedek


In article <1993Jan7.025144.19866@msdrl.com>, burbaum@msdrl.com (Jonathan Burbaum) writes:
|> I seem to recall a thread here discussing ways to avoid 
|> that annoying buzz that happens when an overhead-light
|> dimmer switch is doing its thing.  The conclusion (as
|> I recall) was to install a particular type of switch
|> which dims the light in a different manner (thus
|> preventing the buzz, which is caused by a rapid on-off
|> switching of the current to the bulb). 
|> 
|> The question:  Does anyone recall the brand (or brands)
|> of switch that prevent the noise?  (My local electronics
|> store gave me a blank stare when I posed the question to 
|> them.)
|> 
|> Bonus question:  Do you know a supplier for this
|> brand in Northern NJ? 
|> 
|> --Jonathan
From: bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Basement Carpeting.
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:40:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <C0E8Hn.2tM@news.rich.bnr.ca> kdesai@bnr.ca writes:
>I am in the final stages of finishing my basement. The questions I have
>are as follows:

>2. I am going to get someone to install the carpetting for me. But I want
>   to get recommendations of what type of carpet I should install. How
>   will the installer affix the carpet to the concrete floor.

ah hah!  a topic after my own heart!  my SO and i recently decided to
recarpet the basement, but we didn't want to spend a lot of money.  i do
stained glass as a hobby, and it occured to us that using carpet
remnants the same way might be quite feasible.  as it turned out, we spent 
$100, picked up 12 remnants of sizes varying from 1'x12' to 3'x12' etc.,
and created a really unique pattern for the carpet floor.  we used
plastics under the carpets for installation.  

one of the advantages is that if a section ever gets too used, we
can simply pull it up and put down another remnant.

i'd recommend it!!
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%%   The Speaking Tongue, AT&T   %%  C Code.  C Code Run.  Run, Code, RUN! %%
%%       bgt@hogpf.att.com       %%           PLEASE!!!!                   %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: joe@modcomp.uucp (Joe Korty)
Subject: Re: Garage Door Openers
Organization: MODCOMP, an AEG company
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:19:53 GMT

In <1993Jan04.193527.40965@watson.ibm.com> oasis@jcwrs.watson.ibm.com (GA.Hoffman) writes:

>A month or so ago a thread began on garage door openers .. 
>I didn't catch the recommendations.

>My need is for a 2 car wide, sectioned, fiberglass door.

>I see Home Depot has 1/2hp openers on sale each for $133;
>a Stanley chain-drive and a Genie screw-drive.  Any pros/cons
>or recommendations would be appreciated!

For what its worth, the gentleman who repaired my busted garage door
spring last month said the Genie screw drive is the best garage door
opener on the market today.

I have the Sears "best" 1/2 hp, chain drive.  I don't recommend it, it
has a plastic gear that strips out a little too easily.  This happens
if you don't annually apply a little lithium grease to it or the load
gets too great (unbalanced door).  Sears sells a lot of these gears;
they can't make them fast enough.  The Genie has an all-metal
transmission, and, as a design, the screw drive is reputed to have the
fewest moving parts (less to go wrong) than the others.

joe korty
uunet!modcomp!joe
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: peterson@ucunix.san.uc.edu (John M. Peterson)
Subject: Re: Basement Sealer / Floor Paint
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:41:50 GMT

>
>Hello all,
>I am planning on sealing my basement walls and floor.  The walls are
>stone and mortar.  Some of the mortar needs replacement.  I am not
>having any problems with water.  I have correct those problems by
>reworking my downspouts.  Even after I reworked the downspouts I still
>have some moister.  I do have a dehumidifier running and it does a
>pretty good job.  Since the walls are about 80 years old some of the 
>mortar needs replacement.
>
>   What types of wall sealer and floor paints are available?
>
>   I also have to replace some of the mortar.  Can anyone give me a few
>   pointers before I start?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>David Schaller        Software Engineering      ...!uunet!hsi!schaller
>    3M                                          schaller@hsi.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm doing just this on the final wall of my circa 1908 basement.
What you need to know is more than I can put down here except to
suggest that you hit the library for books and trade mag's on the
topic.  Better yet if you could find a STONE mason (not just a
mason, there is a diff.) who would spend a snowy day or three
with you (in your worm dry basement) to get you started.


+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  peterson@headcheese.daa.uc.edu      	 In real life: John M. Peterson  |
|                                                                        |
|  College of Design Architecture Art & Planning                         |
|  University of Cincinnati           45221-0016           513-556-1207  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: stevez@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (steven.a.zubatkin)
Subject: Re: Basement Carpeting.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:48:10 GMT

From article <CARL.93Jan6144620@atlantis.Cayman.COM>, by carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl):
> 
> What we ended up going was going to Grossmans bargain basement (a
> local discount store) and picking up about 12 boxes of carpet squares.
> These carpet squares are 18" square and mesh together nicely.  We got
> two different colors and created a checkerboard pattern.  The nice
> thing is that we can (if we wish) rearrange the carpet pattern!!!
> 
> Also, if something gets spilt, you only have to pick up the one or
> two carpet squares that are affected... and... they're washable!!!

How do you pick them up after they are on the floor?  Are they loose?

Steve Zubatkin
Morristown, NJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: Gray flexible water supply pipe OK?
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:19:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.191040.8362@hubcap.clemson.edu>, hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
> But if you do it right, it should be fine. The connectors are much improved
> now. I've heard the horror stories, and I plan to put it in my new
> house.

Just a word of warning, around here at least PB pipe will definitely hurt
the resale value of your house. I passed up on two nice houses when I was
buying just because they were plumbed with PB. Both ultimately sold for
about $10k below what I thought they would have gone for if they had
been plumbed with copper. I've talked to several other people who also
say they would never consider a house that wasn't plumbed with copper.
From: wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Why are baseboard heaters installed against exterior walls?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:52:34 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

I never really thought about it before, but maybe because interior
walls often have have doorways that get in the way?  This is
definitely the case in my parents house, although the opposite is true
in my condo, since it has sliding glass doors on the exterior walls.
Thus, the heaters are on the interior walls for the condo, which has
enough walls without doorways on them.
-- 
William A. Emanuelsen      Rich or poor, it's nice to have money.
wae@aerospace.aero.org
From: jms@vision.sarnoff.com (Jerry Shapiro x2420)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Anyone have a problem with Huntington Mort. and late fees?
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:05:59 GMT
Reply-To: jms@vision.sarnoff.com
Organization: David Sarnoff Research Center

In article 1888@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>
>	I recieved my mortgage payment back on the 7th of January, with a note
>saying I had forgot to sign the check (which I had).
>
>	The problem?
>
>	I mailed it to Huntington on the 23rd of December.  I've noticed that
>Huntington has been mailing their payment notices later and later in the month. 
>We recieved November's notice 3 days before it was "due".  However, we had a
>couple of extra envelopes from when we first started so we've always been able
>to mail it in 7 days before it is due, to avoid such problems.
>
>        Has anyone else had this kind of problem with Huntington?  It seems
>they're trying to get late fees out of us.
>
>        The unsigned check is our fault, no doubt about that.  However, they
>should have notified me before the 1st of the month and definately before the
>7th of January.  It wouldn't be such a concern if the other horror stories
>about Huntington and slimy fee tactics hadn't been posted here :).
>
>        Hopefully they'll sell our mortgage soon.
>                                       
>Brett
>-- 
>"The opinions and views expressed here are strictly my own and do not 
>necessarily reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air Force 
>or its contractors."


It's a pain in the ass, but I send my payment to Huntington certified
mail, return receipt on the 23rd day of every month, whether or not I've
received the statement. Then I save the receipts to prove what day they receive it.

Jerry Shapiro
From: skk@harold.dec.COM (Stuart Kreitman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Insulation over and under?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 21:03:26 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: world
Reply-To: skk@harold.dec.COM (Stuart Kreitman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: harold.pa.dec.com

Gee, my last post about how to cut insulation was such a raving success,
I thought I'd
ask another dumb question. Thank you to lotsa folks who told me to
use a utility knife and 2x4!

I couldn't fit the bats through the opening in the attic.
It turns out that the R30 came in 16"x48" strips, so I just rolled 1 or
2 strips
and stuffed paper bags. Lots of them.

Now it turns out that the application really called for unfaced bats,
because there was
already a think layer of blown in cellulose. I considered digging the
cellulose out
and installing the bats beneath, but soon discovered how much crap
became airborne
and decided to punt.

The installation is slightly incorrect because the facing/vapor
barrier lies on top of the cellulose. I pondered it (usage?) and decided
it wouldn't
be too bad. As the facing is flammable, you don't want to leave it facing out,
exposing it to air. Why do they make facing out of paper anyway? It has
potential to
burn no matter how you install it.

Now the next question: The room's still cold. What to do next? 

The house is single story, U-shaped. My bedroom is on the end of the U and is
the coldest room in the house. A FOAF recommended
insulating the floor before doing the walls, on the argument that the floor
is cooled strongly by ventilation under the foundation. (My "california
basement"
has a 30" ceiling). While far cheaper than doing the walls, the
effectiveness is
doubtfull to me.

Please do not reply or repost to this message after January 18. By then it will
be old news.


Stuart Kreitman
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: MIND IN THE GUTTER
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:23:12 GMT

In article <1ivakf$bd1@agate.berkeley.edu> cnrdean@toxic (Sam Scalise) writes:
>
>I'm interested in how most people keep leaves out of their
>gutters.  Also, interested in what you folks are using for gutters.
>Mine are original wooden - narrow as crap.  I plan to replace them
>with heavy-duty steel.  Guess I'll have to solder them together.  
>Now way I would use plastic ones -- look cheap.

My gutters are aluminum. They're either original (from 1955?) or some
salesman sold aluminum re-guttering to my entire block later (probably
the same guy that sold the vinyl siding to everybody). They look ok,
except for the bent places (and they bend easily). The aluminum ones
are easy to install, if you go that route. Steel (my mother's house
has these) needs painting about every five years, and the primer must
be a good one intended for galvanized metal or you're wasting your
money. I've seen 100 year old steel gutters still in use on a house
around Woodstock.

I had the plastic strip guards that come in a roll. You're supposed to
stuff these inside, which makes it a real job to remove for cleaning
the fine stuff off. Also, leaves had a tendency to catch stems in them,
and pulling the leaves off pulled the guards up. I'd rather not have
any than have the plastic ones with the sort of leaves I have (Chinese
Elm and Ginko).

I now have metal screen guards that attach to the front of the gutters
and flip up for cleaning. With all of my trees, I still need to clean
things up two or three times a year, but it's pretty easy to do with
these on there.

I found a tool in Channel or Home Depot (forget which) that helps a
lot. It's sort of a narrow scoop that fits in the gutter and keeps your
hands outside. Comes in handy for other things, too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | I had been told that the best defense is a good
George Patterson -  | offense, so I made up my mind early in life to
                    | become as offensive as possible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: p5468knu@rose.hp.com (Phil Knutson)
Subject: Re: Pet Smells
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:13:33 GMT
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

I have had reasonable success with the "Rug Doctor" Pet Oder Remover that
is sold at many grocery stores and/or rental stores. The stuff has an enzyme
that attacks the living (yes living) bacteria that give off the oder. 

You must spray the stuff on and keep it moist until the oder is gone. I
used a garden sprayer followed by a diluted mixture to keep the area moist. 
-- After about 8 to 10 hours... no more smell. 

A bottle costs less than $4.00 so you can afford to go over a few times if      
needed. 

Phil Knutson