From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Subject: Re: Non-conformism
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Reply-To: ahawks@nyx.UUCP (andy)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:18:11 GMT

In article <geRJlYW00VojI1HEs4@andrew.cmu.edu> Curtis A Beesun
<cbee+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes: 
|	I would like to preface this messagage by noting that this is not a
|flame at anybody in particular.  I enjoy the science fiction that the
|cyberpunk movement would seem to revolve around. . . as well as the
|attititude. . . music. . . etc. . . 
|	But has it occured to anybody else here that this newsgroup seems to be
|turning into the 'ACME GUIDE TO NON-CONFORMISM.'
|It just seems that no matter where you go; there is somebody trying so
|DESPARATELY to be non-conformist that they look and act just like all of
|the others. . . Isn't that self-defeating?

Yes.

|	Granted, I have a new-wave haircut and listen to Skinny Puppy, NIN, NE,
|and all of that stuff; but certainly not for the intrinsic value of
|REBELLION or anything of the sort.  

New Wave haircut?  Like Duran Duran or Flock of Seagulls?  :) :) 
Shave your head and grow one 3-foot long dread.  Then you'll be conforming to
non-conformity! :) 

On the whole thing of non-conformity and the punk portion of cp, I must say
tht a lot of people seem to be looking at it as black and white - which is
pretty useless, IMHO.  It's not "you conform or you don't", it's "you conform
compared to so-and-so, you are a punk compared to so-and-so".  Sure there are
obvious non-conformists (Jeffrey Dahmer for one), but, it is rather difficult
to make it a black/white issue and say who is a punk and who isn't.  

I mean, above you described that you listen to Skiiny Puppy, NIN, and NE
(don't you mean EN?).  The fact that you used these names suggests that you,
or some other people, might see them as non-comformist.  But, in my mind,
Trent Reznor's (sp?) music and it's listeners seem very conformist/non-punk to
me. In fact, a lot of industrial seems very conformist to me.  I think people
are confusing alternative with non-conformity.  To me, Scramblehead might be
an example of non-conformity, but Skinny Puppy and NIN aren't to me, because
of their popularity, and what I see as the reasons for their making their
music. 

|	I suppose that this is all in response to an article I saw quite some
|time ago about 'exactly what a cyberpunk person is like.'  The 'fight
|the standard' attitude seems to be the primary trademark.  Therefore,
|isn't 'adhering to CP culture' an oxy-moron?

No.  Would a nation of non-conformists be a nation of conformity?  I don't
think so.  Non-comformity will always be non-conformity.

And, I must interject my own opinions again on the punk aspect of cyberpunk.
Individualism does not necessarily mean non-conformity, in my mind.  Personal
freedom and conformity (or lack of) are two different things.

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