HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God!  Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:00:23 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

By the way, Eric >>
 
	Did your friend, heidi@zeus.c-engr2.siu.edu, ever get that PC
(whose potential purchase started this flame-fest)?
 
	It's interesting that both Amiga and Clone sides seem to have
forgotten said individual in all of the flaming, bashing, bombing, and
otherwise healthy social behavior :-)
 
Cheers,
 
--Louis
L-Bueno@cup.portal.com
From: aj639@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Cox)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: AMOS Debate
Date: 16 Nov 1992 16:01:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aj639@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Cox)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


My opinion is that AMOS is well-sutied for many things.

After all, all arguments are just the opinions of the arguers.  I am about to be
dropped, but I think a lot of people can benefit from AMOS if they are
beginners or do not want to learn the esoterics of dealing with the Amiga
chips and OS.

Mike
-- 
Okay, look for AmoNER #5 on: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (128.174.5.59) in /amiga/amoner
nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) in /pub/amiga/programming/amos
Je suis venu ici pour macher du chewing-gum et pour botter des fesses.
Et maintenant, je n'ai plus de chewing-gum . . .
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green)
Subject: Re: The Falcon has a 16 bit bus
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Distribution: comp
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:14:38 GMT

In article <28476@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
>I might as well add to the great A1200 vs Falcon debate.
>
>Yes, the Falcon has a 16 bit data bus and a 24 bit address bus.
>Just like the Mac LCII and Classic.  DSP or no, the Falcon doesn't 
>sound quite so attractive anymore, does it?

Hold it. 16 Bit Data but & 24 Bit Address bus are 68000 features, not 68030
features. They are both 32 Bit wide on the 68030. Further:

  The  Mac LCII has a 68030 while the Classic has a 68000.

  This demonstrates a basic rule of this medium (Usenet) :
     BELIEVE NOTHING YOU READ.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:43:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.163953.882@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil> dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer) writes:
>> At any rate, the PC (at that time) never claimed to be the state-of-the-art
>> in user interfaces, the way the Amiga tries to claim state-of-the-art in video.
>
>Who never claimed that? IBM and MS most certainly did claim that each GUI they

Before Windows and OS/2, I definately don't remember anyone claiming that the
PC had a state-of-the-art interface.

>had was incredible and adequate for anyone.  What marketdroid wouldn't?  Don't
>you remember IBM touting the ignored OS/2? or MS screaming about Windows? 
>The amiga is not "state of the art" in video. but it IS state-of-the-art in
>desktop-video. THE machine to beat, compare, and (the best one) be compatible
>with.

Frankly, I think your wrong.  The Indigo Iris is a much more powerful machine,
if you accept it as a 'desktop' machine.

>an IBM is a state-of-the-art printer server, though :)

Maybe so, but after looking at some comparisons between the Amiga and the
Sega, it seems that the Amiga is no longer on par with a state-of-the-art game
machine. :-)

John W. Linville




+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
|   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PowerPC: how much of a threat?
Distribution: world
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:32:05 EDT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

A PowerPC is a piece of vapor that's being collaborated upon by IBM and
Apple. When it's on the shelves it will be a real machine. Until then.....


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore, here's a clue
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:06:04 GMT
Organization: Lule} Tekniska H|gskolas Datorf|rening - Ludd

In <8675@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:

>Unix has to be updated to work with the 040.

	Since when??? You are wrong, I'd guess.

		/Peter
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins)
Subject: Re: Why consider an Amiga? [A stoned Mac user wants to know]
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:37:02 GMT

ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:

>Here are a couple of questions (Flames OK)

>1:  What is the difference between programming on a Mac or an Amiga?
Programs can be run on a Mac. Programs can be created and run on Amiga.

>2:  Will Apple's ButtKicker line (PowerPC) kill off the C= line?
You wish!
>3:  I heard the Amiga is the only computer out there with every
>    major app key-disk or hardware copy-protected.  It this true,
>    or crockery?
It's crockery!

>4:  How large is the C= presence in the US and worldwide?
Large enough for it to maintain itself. Apple (MAC) and IBM (MS/DOS)
are not Commodore-Amiga's competition. SUN and SGI are the comparable
competition.

>4.5:  What are these freddie fish, or whatever thingies that are at
>      the local archive site?
The Fred Fish Disks are compilations of free/shareware software provided
by both professional and amateur Amiga programmers and developers.

>5:  Is the Amiga considered a workstation? :-) (For people reading c.s.m.a)
The basic Amiga is not a workstation, but enhanced Amiga systems are 
definitely the description of what is commonly referred to as a work-
station.

>6:  Is there a UNIX that is runnable on the systems?
YES. YES. YES.

>7:  Where can I find a C= dealer?  (These birds are as rare as
>    hen's teeth around Austin, TX)
This is a very good question. Your more professional video, technical,
graphic, scientific, or desktop publishing rags should give you a listing
of adequate sources to purchase Amiga products.

>8:  What encryption proggies are there to secure hard disks or files?
There are numerous ones; too numerous to discuss here. There are quite
a few available in shareware as well.

>9:  Does C= sell TEMPEST spec Amigas?
Uh. I don't know.

>10:  How crashworthy is the Amiga OS?
I have not compared. I would, from my own experience with Macs and MS/DOS,
have to say no worse than the others, but definitely less stressful.

>11:  (The beeg question :-)  Why should I port stuff over to the
>     Amiga line?
Why shouldn't you? Actually, it would probably be more challenging to
try to port Amiga stuff over to your line. Amigas seem to be able to
emulate everything except God, and I am sure somebody is working on
that as well.

>PS:  Thanks in advance for any mail, and flames.
You are welcome.

-- 
David Rollins                 |  I OWN A COMMODORE/AMIGA 2000.  
Email: drollin@seq.uncwil.edu |  I'M GOOD ENOUGH. I'M SMART ENOUGH,
Voice: 919-763-4115           |  AND DOGGONE IT, PEOPLE LIKE ME!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:59:27 EST
From: Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's the story with Commodore marketing?

Ok, here's a thought:  Why doesn't Commodore start putting Amigas in large
department stores like Sears?  Don't think that they are, because every Sears
I have ever been in has NEVER had an Amiga ANYWHERE in site.  Why is this so
hard to do?  I see a ton of IBMs and even a Mac or two, but never an Amiga.
I've seen people walk into stores, look at the computers on display, and then
decide to get one.  I bet if there was an Amiga there, they would have bought
one instead of a PC.

Another scary thing was that while I was wondering around Sears, I saw a CD-I
display sitting right between the stereo and computer equipment.  Why isn't
CDTV marketed like this, or at all for that matter.  If Commodore doesn't start
pushing their machines into retail stores were Joe Consumer can get his hands
on it and see if he likes it, then I fear the Amiga will die a slow, painful,
bloody death.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
cms129 at psuvm       |  mine but those of my pet hamster Gizmo. HE'S
cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  responsible for this! Blame him!        ^^^^
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Notebook Computers Dominate Comdex
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:56:55 -0600
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <Bxvzyt.8EI@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

  [..quoted article gone deletia way...]

>    The obvious questions are: when is Commodore going to develop a notebook
> Amiga???  Will it be when the growth of notebook sales has slowed and some
> other technology is the cutting-edge in the industry?  And when will Commodore
> jump into the pen-based computer market?  This market is still small and 
> Commodore could make quite a splash were they to get into the market today. 
> But if Commodore waits and waits and waits before jumping in, they will pass
> up yet more opportunities to become a competitor in an emerging market.
> 
> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------

  Several reasons why C= is not in the notebook/pen market yet:

a)  Does anyone actually want a portable Amiga with a monochrome LCD screen
    not capable of the resolutions/scan rates that make the Amiga unique?

b)  You think the screen flickers now...wait 'til you see the LCD jump because
    it can't keep up with the video signal.

c)  Where are the portable digitizers/genlocks/video processors/midi-capable
    keyboards/stereo systems that we can hook up to the new portable Amigas,
    and how are you gonna carry it all?

d)  Perhaps they're spending the money elsewhere (hmmm... a4000? 1200? 600?)

e)  just how expandable do you think one of those notebooks is?  Besides
    being able to add more memory, it wouldn't be exceptional until a
    PCMCIA card is developed as a Mac or IBM emulator.

f)  Maybe because they hear people rant and rave about how terrible the
    company is, and how horrible the computers are, which drives sales down,
    which takes money for R&D out of their pockets, and makes them feel
    there's no market for such a beast.

g)  Maybe they're working on one right now, and just don't feel it's really
    necessary for Mr. Barrett to complain about it before it's even out the
    door, because then his 'complain its not around, then complain about it
    when it's finally released' streak would be broken...and we wouldn't want
    that!  ;-)

(...this kind of thing never fails to brighten my day, for some reason...)




-- 
+--------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here---------+
  Mark C. Langston   |  "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."                 
  Psychology Dept.   |  "Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you what can't
  Memphis State U.   |     be done, and why.  Then do it."                      
      "Pftph!"       |           -From the notebooks of Lazarus Long
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Entertainment Show, London
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:53:12 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <kdarling.722296915@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>Andy Finkel writes:
>>Kevin Darling writes:
>>>My main wish was to point out that Kodak has to sanction/write Photo CD
>>>support for all systems such as the Amiga or CDTV (or ST or whatever).
>>>So Kodak could easily be a far more likely reason for delay than Philips.
>>
>>Or Philips could easily be a far more likely reason for delay than Kodak.
>
>Yes, could be.  If so, then we might as well throw out the idea of having
>official Photo CD support for Amiga/CDTV.  Is that your point?  Is that what
>you want to tell people?  My point was that that's possibly not the holdup.

I don't quite see the connection.  Are you saying that if Philips is the
holdup one might as well just give up ?  That only if Kodak is the
hold up will the PhotoCD spec spread ?

_My_ point is that either one might be the case;  you don't have
the information to judge which is more likely.

>
>> After all, one might assume that it is to Kodak's benefit in getting a new
>> standard adopted to have as many players out there as possible since Kodak
>> sees the money they will make from PhotoCD in terms other than player sales.
>
>Have you been following Photo CD discussions since its beginning on other
>groups and nets?  One more time:  it's become clear that Kodak doesn't
>consider anything as "Photo CD" unless the code came from them.  Right now,
>that means only PCs, Macs and (I think) some Suns have *binary* Photo CD
>support libraries which can be licensed from Kodak.  Other systems must
>simply wait (Kodak does not give out source code to anyone, apparently).

Again, I was making the point that you don't have enough info to speculate
on this point.  One more time: that's the point I was making.

>
>So it's not at all unlikely that Photo CD support for Amiga/CDTV is mostly
>delayed until Kodak gets around to doing an Amiga-compatible library, which
>is what I'm hoping for.  But if that's not the case, then tell us so that
>people will stop thinking that Photo CD support is imminent for Amiga/CDTV.

Again, the conclusion is unsupported.  Photo CD support could
be imminent and the hold up still be other than Kodak.

>regards - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> <76703.4227@compuserve.com>

			andy
-- 
andy finkel		andy@cbmvax.commodore.com

"Unix is the Operating System of the future, and always will be."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  300 MIP Amiga
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:57:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1992Nov23.184708.19278@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:

>>NeXTStep - runs on 68030, 68040, 80486 - cost will be around $2500 for the
>>           486 version.
>
>$2500? Yikes, I heard it would be < $1000. It would certainly make a nice
>front-end for an Amiga workstation though.

I think it's $2500 for the developer version, and <=$1000 for the
end-user version (either way, it's too expensive, IMHO).

Paul

-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: 300 MIP Amiga
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:59:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.175023.13871@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:

>Yet, Commodore isn't sitting idle either.  We know that they (at least
>their engineers ;) are working on newer chipsets and more advanced feature.
>So I wouldn't think Amigas will go under any time soon.  The only way to 
>kill the Amiga now, is to stop supporting/buying Amiga and Amiga-related
>software/hardware.

But the irony is that mainstreaming the platform through RISC capability
would open up the system to a wide range of possibilities. The potential 
of running NeXTStep, Windows NT, Unix or VMS leads to longevity. Making
the A4000 CPU modular offers tremendous advantages.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 16 Nov 92 12:56:54 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <VXRTTB5w165w@bugend.edvina.se>,<BxMwAE.L5H@starnine.com>,<1e6sfpINNkdf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1e6sfpINNkdf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll) writes:
>
>In a previous article, martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??) says:
>
>>Not to join either side here, but I bet many of the "honest" people on the
>>net here have a copy of an audio cassette, or a CD, or have copied pages
>>from a book w/o authorization....it's called hippocracy, and it's far more
>					      ^^^^^^^^^^
>>rampant than the piracy of software...but...back to the subject.
>
>Is that a system of government where the people are ruled by large
>African river-dwelling mammals?
>
>Try "hypocrisy."
>

:) heh  oops.. 

>
>--            
Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: suopanki@stekt5.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Shut the fuck up!!!!
Reply-To: heikki.suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: University of Oulu, Dept. of EE, Finland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:51:32 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:08:20 GMT, mba3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Michael Boyd Adams) said:
Michael> Both the Amiga and the IBMclone world have their advantages and 
Michael> disadvantages...   The IBM can do certain things and has a very large
Michael> market in the US....The Amiga can do certain things and has a very
Michael> large market in Europe....  

I just want to point out that IBM has a very large market in the
Europe too, and I wouldn't say Amiga has a very large market in Europe.

Michael> The main thing the Amiga has that IBM can't offer is seamless multitasking.
Michael> I know I know!!! Desqview (spelling?) multitasks, and all, but that isn't
Michael> an issue given the 640k memory barrier, but hey, I'm not arguing....

Ever heard of OS/2 or Unix and Windows mulktitask seamless enough
for me.

-Heikki
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:29:25 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Nov20.144918.15860@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@mickey (Jerry Shekhel):

> That's a stupid argument.  Gee, the OS on my Atari 800 occupies 10K, while
> AmigaOS requires around 200 times that to be effective.  Get the point? 

    No, THIS statement of yours is STUPID and DENSE. The OS on your
    Atari 800 that occupies 10K isn't EFFECTIVE. AmigaDOS IS, OS/2 IS.

    Some people buy Amigas TODAY because of the OS. Some people buy
    PCs with OS/2 because of the OS. Only a NUT would buy an Atari
    800 TODAY because of the OS (in fact, ever, IMHO, for any reason -
    it's like buying a ... a C=16 or a Plus/4).

> Jerry J. Shekhel					jerry@msi.com
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: stud16@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be (Kurt Haenen)
Distribution: world
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 14:40:20 +01
Organization: K.U.Leuven - Academic Computing Center
Subject: Re: What does an A4000 cost ??

In article <BMCCNNLL.721652644@UNIX1.TCD.IE>, bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie
writes:
> In <1992Nov12.014552.24085@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>
> trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE) writes:
>
> >I would appreciate if people in Europe and the USA could drop me some
> >email with details on A4000 pricing in your part of the world.
>
> I think it costs around 2500 UK pounds incl. VAT. That's US$4500. :-(
> (A4000-'040/120MB) The 1960 is something like 450 pounds on top of that.
>
> Barry.

I bought my A4000 here in Belgium for 120000 BFr, that is about $4000.
If you want to know the exact amount, check the exchange rate.  Oh
yeah, that's the A4000/040 with a 68040 at 25MHz, 6 MB RAM (of which
2MB chipram) and a 120 MB Harddisk and including the Commodore 1960
monitor.

+----------------+-------------------+------------------------------------+
|/////\\_____\\\\|                   |                                    |
|//// /_____ \\\\|  Kurt Haenen      |  Tjee, with this new cruncher,     |
|/// /\____//\\\\|  Homsemstraat 53  |  I can put two times as many disks |
|\\\/\ \   / / \\|  3891 Borlo       |  in one box than I used to ...     |
|\\\/\\ \ / /\/\\|___________________|____________________________________|
|\\\/\\\/_\/\/ //|                                       |                |
| Kurt \/_\ / ///|  EMAIL : STUD16 @ CC4.KULEUVEN.AC.BE  | 2B || !2B T^ = |
| Haenen  \\\/// |          FHGAA99@ CC1.KULEUVEN.AC.BE  | THE QUESTION ! |
+----------------+---------------------------------------+----------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:34:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.234037.26614@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999) writes:
>
>If I look at MY TERMINAL I'll see Unix!  Well, actually a bastardized
>stepchild called Xenix.  How do I like it?  Well, let me give you a hint:
>I refuse to accept responsibility for missing characters in this message;
>with the 7 whopping tasks running (three of them shells), this mighty
>486 can't keep up with my typing.  Pathetic.  Next....

That's a bit hard to believe.  A few years ago, I used to run Xenix on a humble
20MHz 386 with 4MB RAM, and it used to support half a dozen users quite
comfortably - it was a "high-end" PC in those days.  Part of the secret was
offloading tty processing to an intelligent multiport serial card (a Stallion,
in our case).

Now, if you're losing characters from a terminal, I can only assume that you
have a few terminals plugged into dumb COM ports on the 486, especially if
you're trying to run them too fast.  Try slowing your baud rates.

So, the standard serial ports _are_ a weakness in using a 486 as a multiuser
Unix (or Xenix) box.  If you're serious, you don't use them - there are plenty
of alternatives.  However, the Amiga's serial port is worse, especially at
speed, and is notorious for losing characters in a multitasking environment.
Remember that.  We need a FIFO...


-- 
David Meiklejohn (also known as davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - Regional support guy for PC's, Unix, and networks thereof.
 - But I'd rather be using an AMIGA!  Wouldn't you?
Find me in Mareeba, Australia (on the pointy bit in the northeast)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy