HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abrams@dan.ccd.bnl.gov (The Ancient Programmer)
Subject: Re: Best spots to ski in Northeast??
Keywords: n
Organization: Brookhaven National Lab. Upton NY 11973
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:00:41 GMT

In article <JIM.92Oct8101142@scf16.scf.loral.com> jim@scf16.scf.loral.com (Jim Livesey) writes:
>
>  I'm heading to the Northeast this Christmas and was wondering
>  where the good spot(s) to ski would be.  I'm a beginner to
>  moderate skier and my girlfriend has never skied before.
>
>  Any thoughts would be appreciated.. 
>--
	If you are going to the Boston area I would recommend The North Conway
area in New Hampshire.  From there you can ski a number of places that are
good beginner/novice areas. 

IMHO:
	There's Attitash in Glen, good mixed terrain with a good ski school.

	Bretton Woods, across from the Mt. Washington Hotel. Lots of wide
easy trials. Don't know about their school.

	Black Mtn in Jackson, a family type mountain. Their ski school is
in transition. 

	Wildcat, in Pinkham Notch, lots of tough terrain. Plenty of intermediate
terrain. Very good ski school.

	There is also Mt. Cranmore, but I've never skied it.





--
abrams@bnl.gov        |/ |    ^  :"Man hears what he wants to hear,
                      |\ |__ /-\ :         and disregards the rest."
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: Skier classification
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:23:06 GMT

|> 
|> S> The bottom line is : if your friend/wife/uncle are somewhat above 
|> S> general unfitness level you either have to teach them yourself,
|> S> or pay for private instruction.

|> I don't know where you ski, but any major area has multiple groups for each
|> level, and I've not seen (or encountered) any of the problems you cite.
|> Frankly, I discourage *everyone* from teaching friends, simply because 90-99%
|> of them are incapable of communicating technique, even if they are Scot
|> Schmidt's caliber.  If the lesson isn't up to the student's ability, the
|> student should immediately tell the instructor so and/or go directly to the ski

This is right - in theory. However, it doesn't work too well in practice.

Politically-correct ski schools in US never manage to  properly
classify students , not to violate egalitarian principles, I guess. 
Vail allows you to  classify yourself : very democratic indeed, doesn't
work at all. You get a  group of 10 people all at different ability
level : mainly discrepancies come from males placing themselves
way over their heads, and females on the contrary being overly
conservative in self-evalutaion.
When there is a ski-off (like Killington), it is on such an easy hill
no reasonable distinction can be made : one is lucky to make it to
the finish line without  poling.
Expert bump-clinic in Hunter is an absolute disaster : enthusiastic 
students usually have to be taught how to ski short turns on flat terrain .
The ski school doesn't make any attempt to  screen participants.

The only program  I've seen that manages to institute ego-hurting
but effective skill segregation system  is Club Med in Copper. The teaching
is not that good, IMHO ;  groups however are very well matched.

|> school desk for a replacement.

replacement of what ? They'll move you from one mixed bag of questionable 
prodigies and arthritis cases into another.


Sergei.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: wilcock@bigbos.enet.dec.com (John Wilcock)
Subject: Re: Where to go in France...
Reply-To: wilcock@bigbos.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Evry, France.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:02:43 GMT


In article <1992Oct12.145238.8907@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk 
(Paul Smee) writes:
>Trying to decide where to go skiing this year.  We sort of want to go
>somewhere new, that we haven't been to before.  (We've done Flaine, Les
>Arcs, La Plagne, Tignes/Val D'Isere, and the Trois Vallees -- Meribel,
>Courcheval, Val Thorens, Les Menuires -- and are looking for somewhere
>different, but that sort of size.)  Switzerland is out, too expensive.
>French Alps preferred, but not absolutely essential.
>
>Places that have come to mind so far are the Porte Du Soliel (Avoriaz,
>Morzine, Les Gets), and Chamonix.  Anyone have any nice/nasty useful
>comments about either of those?  Or any other suggestions/comments?
>We're reasonably good skiiers (except on moguls), like black runs (by
>French rating) for challenge and red for cruising and unwinding.  
>Recognised (i.e. findable and mapped, but not pisted) 'itineraire'
>routes a plus.

Another large area you might like to consider is Serre Chevalier.
250km of pistes, with plenty of challenging runs, plus links to 
Briancon domain. In the same area there's Montgenevre, which I've
never been to but is highly recommended - apparently it is linked
with some italian resorts & has access to over 300km of pistes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- John Wilcock, wilcock@bigbos.enet.dec.com -- My opinions are my own       --
-- Digital Equipment Corp., Evry, France.    -- Nobody else can claim them   --
-- Tel. +33 1 69 87 56 75                    -- (Certainly not DEC)          --
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Two-way radios on the slopes
Keywords: radio
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:17:42 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Oct9.041843.9794@panix.com> oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) writes:
|        You and a friend are skiing down and will have to decide which
|lift to ski to because there is a branch in the trail.  Without 
|two-way radios, the conversation would have to take place motionless at
|the branch.  This means that whoever gets to the branch first has to wait
|around for the other skier.  On average, the ratio of ski time to waiting
|time is degraded.  But if you use two-way radios, then you can confer on 
|such questions while both skiers are moving.  The ratio of ski time to 
|waiting time is enhanced.

The way I usually handle this is whoever gets to the branch first gets to
decide which way to go.  The other just has to follow. 
  
|        Two couples are at the resort, and they stop for lunch.  After
|lunch, one couple would like to go back on the slopes while the other 
|would like to rest a few more minutes.  Without radios, you are faced
|with two choices -- (1) all four skiers wait until everybody is ready
|to go, or (2) you give up on ever rejoining until the end of the day
|during "apres ski" activity.  But if you use radios, you can rejoin
|conveniently with ski runs coordinated to meet somewhere with no idle 
|time.

Even with radios you're still going to have to wait for the other party.
In many cases if I want to go to take a run before my skiing partner
is ready I just tell them "I'll meet you at the bottom of the chair
after I take a run."

|Members of your skiing party get on the lift, but not on the same chair.
|Those without radios will have to wait until they get to the top to have
|a discussion about which direction to ski (unless they happen to have
|planned ahead and worked this out while in the lift line).  Those with
|radios can conduct the discussion while on the chairs and ski right off
|immediately after disembarking from the chair.

If I'm skiing with a group I certainly don't mind hanging around at the 
top of a chair for a few minutes while the group decides which way to
go.  What's the hurry?

I'm not saying that they're not handy to have but I've been skiing for 
20 years without one and would rather spend the money on an extra day
of skiing.
-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
From: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:57:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.LAUNCE.92Oct13155718
	<DAVIS.92Oct10175821@adenosine.lugg.utah.edu>
	<1992Oct11.175521.10229@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.

In article <1992Oct11.175521.10229@u.washington.edu> davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale) writes:

   >>pair of 195 cm Dynastar Omeglass II's.  If you want something new I
   >>have been thinking that one of the "Extreme" skis would make good
   >>Tele's.  These are generally a little softer in the tip than a slalom
   >>ski, but pretty quick.

Saw some guys in the backcountry on Vertical Assaults & Extreme
Courses last season.  They seemed to like them a whole lot. 

   >>This isn't a purist attitude, but I already cheat so bad with my Asolo
   >>Extreme Racers that a real ski completes the package.

Yeah, me too - I'll be especially bad this season, now that I've gotten
ahold of some plastic cuffs to stiffen up my Scarpas.

   >I have skied the Cirques and really like them, but can't relate to the
   >price. 

No shit.  Lots & lots of *nice* gear out there that I can't afford... 

<sigh>

>   I couldn't agree more -I'm currently skiing a pair of Dynastar Course
>   slalom boards and love them.  They're built just as light as any telemark
>   ski, so they work fine for touring, which is mostly what I use them for. 
>   The added stability and durability of a downhill ski are real plusses.

I got a pair of used Dynastar Verticals (old white model) & put some
Rivas on them; I love them for aforementioned reasons.  Looking to get
another pair this year if I am able.

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: My first experience with a Texas Skiie
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:50:45 GMT

russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) writes:

>I've never seen a Texas skier. ...
>Do they only
>ski in NM and Vail, CO?

Gawd, if they only *would*.  Thanks to your "Idaho doesn't exist"
postings, they are starting to come to Utah after being thrown out of
CO & NM, instead of becoming an equal opportunity infestment.

Oh. for Jeesh!!!

Cheers, Bob
--
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Skier classification
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:24:55 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Distribution: na
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Oct9.142306@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>
>When there is a ski-off (like Killington), it is on such an easy hill
>no reasonable distinction can be made : one is lucky to make it to
>the finish line without  poling.

Should complain to them.  Most places I am familiar with do a quick-sort 
into upper (D-F) and lower (A-C) and have the ski-off in a suitable 
location.  They also tend to keep the groups in the same vicinity 
for the first run so it is easy to swap students if the ski-off was 
clearly in error.  Otherwise, they tell them to report to a different
class the next day. 

>Expert bump-clinic in Hunter is an absolute disaster : enthusiastic 
>students usually have to be taught how to ski short turns on flat terrain .
>The ski school doesn't make any attempt to  screen participants.

Most skiers who need to improve in the bumps need to improve their 
short turns on flat terrain.  Now if this is a "F" level clinic, it 
had better be taught as one, and if not you should ask for your money 
back ... unless you are not as good as you think you are!

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: College Snowboard Teams
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:17:36 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

I know that Boston U has a snowboard TEAM what other colleges have them?

-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: rkf@wildrose.infoserv.com (Ray Fink)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Two-way radios on the slopes
Summary: just say no
Keywords: radio
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 22:37:36 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Wild Rose Refugee Camp

johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:

> In article <1992Oct9.041843.9794@panix.com> oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl
> |        You and a friend are skiing down and will have to decide which
> |lift to ski to because there is a branch in the trail.  Without 
> |two-way radios, the conversation would have to take place motionless at

We usually hash this out at the top of the lift...half the fun is
all the group dynamics, knowing that Mr Bill always wants to hit T3,
Terri won't do Hoopes without serious peer pressure, Scott wants
more bumps, etc.  So then the bargaining begins, "how about PBTBGV and
and a Riverton and *then* we'll catch a lower face for another box" or 
whatever.  And if we're at an area that we don't know intimately, it
is nigh impossible to make those decisions without *everybody* looking
at the trail map.  I'm an expert skier, but reading a trail map while
skiing expert terrain is outa my league :-)

> |        Two couples are at the resort, and they stop for lunch.  After
> |lunch, one couple would like to go back on the slopes while the other 
> |would like to rest a few more minutes.  Without radios, you are faced

> Even with radios you're still going to have to wait for the other party.
> In many cases if I want to go to take a run before my skiing partner
> is ready I just tell them "I'll meet you at the bottom of the chair
> after I take a run."

Or pick a time and place to regroup, "bottom of lift 5 at 2:15" 

> |Members of your skiing party get on the lift, but not on the same chair.
> |Those without radios will have to wait until they get to the top to have
> |a discussion about which direction to ski (unless they happen to have
> |planned ahead and worked this out while in the lift line).  Those with
> |radios can conduct the discussion while on the chairs and ski right off
> |immediately after disembarking from the chair.
> 
> If I'm skiing with a group I certainly don't mind hanging around at the 
> top of a chair for a few minutes while the group decides which way to
> go.  What's the hurry?

I agree.  Stop and smell the roses.  Throw some snowballs.  Admire some
lycra. :-)  And then ski faster...

-- Ray

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:37:06 GMT

trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>But seriously, under what circumstances is the tele position an advantage?
>
Most.  You are more stable when you are lower to the ground.
This becomes quite obvious skiing Mary Jane.

--Chris
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 23:54:57 CDT
From: Paul A. Larson <U37673@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Telluride-Is it worth it?

Me and some friends of mine were planning a week in Colorado and were
interested to here that Telluride has free lift tickets if you stay in any
number of condos in the area.  Being on a budget, this really caught our eye.
Our question is, does Telluride have enough night life to make it worth a whole
week's stay?  None of has ever been there and a 'night life guide' is hard to
come by.   Thanks! - Paulie
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: klaus@ced.utah.edu (Klaus Biggers,MEB 3140b,581-6499)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Reply-To: klaus@ced.utah.edu
Organization: Center for Engineering Design
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 00:00:33 GMT

In article 92Oct14163358@apollo.med.utah.edu, launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
> True, but in some cases (like mine, for example), the alpine ski
> approach was for purely for economic reasons as I couldn't afford the
> Evo MQ's I so covet. The plastic cuff I mentioned is only for in-area
> use, and serves to stiffen my boot enough so it's more like the
> Merrill Supercomp or Asolo Extreme Racers some of my friends wear.
> Nonetheless, the turn remains Telemark (or in my case, my best
> approximation, complete with horrible pole-panting and other bad form
> peccadillos) and the heels remain freeeeeee...

pole planting??? Oh.. you must be using !TWO! poles... how non-traditional.
:)
I have nothing against the folks that can parallel steeps and crud
and you name it. I actually respect them. I have a hard time since
when I started tele'ing, I was on double cambered Fischer's with the
wax marks and all. Try a parallel turn on those! Yipes. I must admit
my parallel style has gotten better as I too have progressed to more
TC equipment. (TC=Technologically Correct).

But then there'r those guys that can ski it no matter what on whatever
happens to be on their feet at the time. There was a guy in the locker
next to mine at Alta... (ok, he wasn't in the locker but kept his stuff
there.) I noticed one day as he pulled out his tele boards that they
didn't match. Not the length, brand, bindings, nuthin. When I asked..
his answer was quite enlightening. Its just what he had found in the
garbage from folks throwing away the ski they didn't break or lose. (Yes,
one was a Kazama :) And the guy could ski quite well.

> <bend ze kneez!  bend ze kneez!!>

Or as Tom Lehrer would say: Genuflect, Genuflect, Genuflect!
(Are the catholics laughing?)

>What's wrong with neon?  How you
> 'spect to find someone in an avalanche wearing that damn earthtone
> wooly stuff? ;^)

Simple... use the peips to get close, and then set the Malamute loose.
They'll find anything that smells like a sheep. If you don't have the
Malamute along (who's breaking trail??), just smell for cheap beer or
wine. Or body odor.. polypro is great for that, eh?

> Besides, here
> in Ootah, if you have too much fun at *anything* you *must* be doing
> something horribly *wrong*, and must be *punished* for it!!

Or at least highly taxed.

-klaus                                              klaus@ced.utah.edu
From: hudgens@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: RE: Snowshoe in December?
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:21:17 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) wrote:
> 
>so I'm kinda scared to ask this query BUT
> 
>The wife and I have a trip planned to Snowshoe, WV in December. Anybody
>been there that early in the season before? reckon there'll be snow?
> 

About 4-5 years ago a buddy of mine invited me to meet his old advisor (who
came up from Alabama) at Snowshoe--on Dec. 22.  We went down not expecting
much--a warm rain washed to car as we drove.  But I'm a sucker for skiing
before Xmas in the East....It's always a throw of the dice.

For Dec the conditions were excellent.  It was too warm to make snow, but
Snowshoe had managed to open all their runs a few days earlier. Unfortunately,
due to rain melt-off, they had closed one of the expert runs and the lower half
of Cupp Run, a southern expert facing slope that has a consistent grade from
top to bottom and drops 1500 vert feet! (Cupp is a surprisingly
great run for the mid-Atlantic.)

However, Xmas week is one of the busiest for Snowshoe. The place is full
of enthusiastic southern skiers who aren't very good. Even the better skiers
are still rusty so you see a lot of falls.  The place would have had a higher
dork factor but Snowshoe (at least that year) limited the ticket sales. I don't
know wheather they still do....

Anyway, if Snowshoe is your only option for early skiing, I'd seriously
consider it. I don't think that any ski area is immune from some degree of
crowding during Xmas (Don't most make 25-30% of their $$$ over Xmas?).  There
are ski areas I like more--but most are not very accessible to southern skiers.
Weather can still thwart your plans, but think positively, this is going to
be a great snow year!

In spite of Snowshoe's southern location, it is COLD up there.
I've seen it 80F in Washington DC and snowing at Snowshoe. The name Snowshoe
refers to snowshoe rabbits--which only live in areas that have snow for a
certain number of days/year.  Snowshoe is the southern-most area that this 
rabbit is indigenous to. 

Jeff Hudgens
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Crosscountry/Backcountry skiing [LONG]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:16:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Ilana Stern (ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu) wrote:
: In article <Bvv66H.JsE@mail.boi.hp.com>, smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay) writes:
: > Question: Is there really a a consensus that climbing is easier on skis that
: > have a wax pocket? My experience is just the opposite. It seems to me that
: > the wax pocket is only there to make the kick wax last longer. It actually
: > hinders (very slightly) climbing by reducing the normal force on the snow
: > at the wax pocket location.
: 
: I suppose it's a technique-y thing;  I climb hills with a hard step
: (really mashing my foot into the ground) so I take advantage of it.
: I actually think the camber is to make gliding easier, so the kick wax
: doesn't interfere with the glide.
:

Perhaps it's a matter of terminology, but where you say "take advantage of"
I say "overcome the disadvantage of".

I get plenty of glide when (kick)waxing my skis, but I definitely have to wax
them more frequently than my double-cambered skis.

Double cambered skis are pretty rare in the crowd(s?) I ski in. Regional 
preferences are always interesting to me. Seems like the skis of choice
locally are the Fischer GTS and the BD TeleSauvage(Tua Cirque). Lousy on the
flats but benevolent demons in the turns. Most of our climbing is done with
skins.

cheers,
scott  
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: "Ski Mountaineering" (?) advice wanted.
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:08:48 GMT

william@castle.ed.ac.uk (William Warburton) writes:
>Hi,
>	I am looking for advice on what I think is usually termed
>Ski mountaineering. ....
>
> What I would like to know is how much I need to learn & what equipment
>would be necessary to combine walking & skiing in winter.

You don't need to learn much in the way of technique.  Make
sure you know about avalanches.

Equipment:
	Randonee bindings
	Skins
	Avalanche Tranciever

If you have an old pair of downhill skis, you can use them.  For
the last 3 years I have been climbing 14ers in my [rear-entry]
alpine boots, but last spring I finally broke down and got
some AT boots.  Alpine boots will accept step in crampon
bindings without any problem.

> Is this because what I am contemplating is very ambitious and only
>undertaken by experienced winter mountaineers or is it just that there
>arn't many people who are inclined to mix climbing up with skiing down?

You just have to be pretty dedicated to want to carry that
much equipment uphill.  

> Re. equipment: It seems to me (from the X-C FAQ) that I need Randonee
>		bindings on appropriate skis, probably with skins for
>		climbing. Boots need to be appropriate for walking and
>		for skiing (?) does this mean carrying both? Is it
>		possible to get a boot that will do both jobs well?

My rear-entry alpine boots worked great for hiking up, however
I was starting to trash the bottoms from hiking on rocks.

--Chris