HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marcia@netcom.com (Marcia)
Subject: Re: The virtues of internet
Organization: The Dolphin Conspiracy, Phase II
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:23:26 GMT

In article <Bx9AoJ.C5F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> fippen@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Fippen) writes:
>	Now what, pray tell, does this have to do with alt.romance? Well,
>two hearts can touch over  internet even though the people are many
>miles apart. And isn't alt.romance about the touching of hearts? It is to
>me, and I see no virtue in all this gutter talk about sizes, fat guys, 
>use of the "f" word, etc; this bbs is about dating, love, commitment, 
>romantic nights, the proper atmosphere for love et al. And we should 
>keep it that way before we are all summarily dropped off the net.

First, I would contend that this is a newsgroup, not a "bbs", but let us not
bandy semantics....

My understanding is that this groups is *about* romance. And let's face it -
romance is not just about "dating, love, commitment, romantic nights", etc.
Romance also has a darker side, a painful side - unrequited love, pain
caused by misunderstanding, hurt when romance ends. And just because this
isn't all "sweetness and light" doesn't mean it's not part of romance. (And
that goes for sex, too - sex is not romance, and romance is not sex, but sex
sure can be a part of romance.) I don't consider it gutter talk, but talk
about the realities of romance - of what happens when you take off your rose
colored glasses and blend your romance with reality.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcia Bednarcyk                                  ADDRESSES: marcia@netcom.com
"Sweaty Snugglebunnies."                                     mlb@cisco.com
From: patstew@oz.plymouth.edu (Pat Steward)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: what i'm looking for
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:04:26 GMT
Reply-To: patstew@oz.plymouth.edu (Pat Steward)
Distribution: na
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.

In article <BxFuCt.M3C@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU> stuarta@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Stuart Andrews) writes:
>
>Or another who never made it as far at the presents stage. Every time I
>opened a door she'd snatch it out of my hand and give me a dirty look.
>She ain't my SO anymore either.
>
>(Oh, I know I'm not doing it wrong, there have been others who love the
>same treatment.)
>
>So, has anyone any clues? I can't work it out... (Though, methinks we won't
>find any ladies in *this* newsgroup who *don't* like what I've just
>described... am I right?)

No, you're not.

And that is the whole point that you don't seem to be getting.

SOME women like to have doors held for them.  OTHERS view it as
condescending.  Some will take every present you offer, while others
see it as an attempt to buy their attention.

Once your SO has made it clear that she is *opposed* to having the
door opened for her, why would you persist in doing it?  Because you
think it's somehow a requirement for being "romantic"?  Tcha....
-- 
Pat Martin Steward                          patstew@oz.plymouth.edu
I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is;
I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express senti-
ments that differentiate me from a doormat.       Rebecca West, 1913
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: BROKEN HEART
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:47:19 GMT
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1da2ueINN36m@agate.berkeley.edu> bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
>
>>Worrying about whether another guy is going to get to the girl first is
>>a good way to mess up your efforts to win her. You aren't fighting
>>the other guy, you are 'fighting' for her. It is more like a race than
>>a fight, and in a race, and a good racer watches the ground ahead of
>>him, not the other guys.  And this is a funny sort of race, because it
>>rarely goes to the swift, but instead it usually goes to the one that
>>hangs in there longest, without overdoing it or quitting.
>I'm sorry, but can you be a little more specific on this point?  I mean,
>if two guys happen to be after the same girl, isn't it hard not to try
>to notice what the other guy's doing and compensate?  I mean, shouldn't
>you make sure to look ahead and react if the other racer's ahead of you?
>For instance, the other guy gives her flowers, and she's stunned/flattered,
>shouldn't you pay attention and react in someway (like give her something
>(different kinds of flowers perhaps? or box of candy (sheesh, I sound old/
>old-fashion)) ?

	I'm not sure...the one time I was in a situation like this it got
very ugly, from my perspective, because the idea of having to "compete"
for love began to strike me as something of a perversion of what it was
I, at least, was ultimately after. Or, perhaps more accurately, it was the
idea of having to be something other than what I was (i.e., doing something
for her that I wouldn't otherwise have done) that struck me as insincere
and manipulative.
 
	If, as I slowly began to feel, she was unwilling to love me for who
I was, but only for how I pretended to be, than continuing with such a
situation would have been a blatant mockery to the ends I was reaching for.
 
	(Fortunately, that situation is _long_ over, and it is only now
that I suspect I can look at it with anything remotely resembling a modicum
of objective detachment ;-) ...)
 
	Geoff Tuffli
	The Green Griffin
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: lani@askinc.ASK.COM (Lani Barton)
Subject: Re: what i'm looking for
Reply-To: lani@askinc.ask.COM (Lani Barton)
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:36:38 GMT

>Or another who never made it as far at the presents stage. Every time I
>opened a door she'd snatch it out of my hand and give me a dirty look.
>She ain't my SO anymore either.
>
>(Oh, I know I'm not doing it wrong, there have been others who love the
>same treatment.)
>
>So, has anyone any clues? I can't work it out... (Though, methinks we won't
>find any ladies in *this* newsgroup who *don't* like what I've just
>described... am I right?)
\

I'd like to follow up on this.  I get so irritated at people, women
or men, who are ungracious and rude.  These are people who make a scene
about the simple courtesy of somebody holding a door open for them
(these are usually women) or who get indignant about me offering to
pay for dinner (usually men).  There is no call for this at all.  Ladies,
if you don't want somebody to open a door for you, it's easier and much
more polite to quietly tell somebody that you'd prefer to open your
own doors, rather than throw a fit and act like a rude spoilt child
when it happens.  Most guys don't hold a door open to condescend.  I
myself hold the door open for people, and I would be livid if somebody
was so ungracious as to bark at me "I can do it myself!"

My special fellow loves to hold doors open, etc, and it makes him happy,
so I accept his courtesy with a smile of thanks.  He once had a woman
slap him for doing so.  Obviously she didn't last.  Good riddance!  I,
in turn, am courteous to him, though it did take some training to 
persuade him that it made me feel good to pay for my share of fun times
out.

So, this long winded message is really in support for the poor fellow
who wrote about his rude girlfriend.  Now, I do agree, if she indicates
that she doesn't want the door opened, don't keep doing it.  However,
I would not agonize over "gee, should I or shouldn't I"; I see this
analysis played out quite a bit on this group by perplexed males.  Just
start out being your polite selves and if she's such a b***tch as to
make a scene without telling you first, you don't want her anyways.

Some may think this is anti-feminist.  Horse pucky.  It's being
civilized.  Feminism has nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.sex,alt.pagan
From: esper@cs35b.cs.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman)
Subject: Re: Attention Advice Givers (ie HELP)
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:06:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.235419.23512@jetsun.weitek.COM> weaver@jetsun.weitek.COM (Michael Gordon Weaver) writes:
>If you had no trouble gettng dates because women were always asking you
>out, would you even bother to ask out other women?

I don't have this problem (hah) with dating, but (since you brought up tango
later in your message) I do have it with dance partners, and I do still ask
other women to dance.  The relevance of this is, of course, questionable...
>
>If you have danced a tango (I have), you might remember that the man
>always asks the woman to dance,

Don't count on it these days...  There are a few men I know (and I'm one of
'em) who are good enough dancers and well-enough known that we'll have over
half our sets booked by women who come up and ask us...  I even know one guy
who books his sets up to two weeks before the dance - and if a woman doesn't
ask him at least a day in advance, there's a good chance she won't get to dance
with him...

> *and* the man always decides the steps,

Unless the woman is backleading and he's letting her get away with it.

>*and* the man always decides the direction.

Ditto.

Dancing Dave Sherohman
esper@ima.umn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.romance,alt.personals
From: davis@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Barbara Davis)
Subject: Re: WANTED: REWARD OFFERED
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:57:06 GMT

hhamid@nyx.cs.du.edu (hassan  hamid) writes:

>If you are a woman aged 17-24, 5'4"-5'9" tall, with beautiful eyes, good
>figure, pretty face, and a blonde or brunnete with softly permed hair,
>then let me KNOW THAT YOU EXIST AND ARE READING THIS MESSAGE. I LOVE YOU.
>HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON.
>---HASSAN.

According to your post of a few weeks ago, this is a total waste of
bandwidth since the really great looking women are in majors that never
use computers.

I won't even comment on what type of man can love a woman based solely
on her looks.  You wouldn't get what I mean and most of the rest of us
know exactly what I mean.

Barb
-- 
Barbara G. Davis                       Internet:  davis@ucsu.colorado.edu
University of Colorado, Boulder 

                   If I don't ask, you can't say, "Yes!".
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles
From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Subject: Re: Being Alone?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:57:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.022755.17214@microsoft.com> allanl@microsoft.com (Allan Lockridge) writes:
>What is the longest period of time between boyfriend/girlfriend?
>Basically, I am interested in what is considered a normal length
>of time after one breaks up to when a new boy/girlfriend is found.
>
>
> Allan
>-- 
>Allan Lockridge -- Allanl
 
Good question Allan. I'd give it about 15 years just to be on the safe side.
After all you don't want to start a new relationship burdened down
by past baggage. Remember 15 years Allen, any sooner and all is lost.

 
================================================================================
 Ipsissimus of the Inner Order of Sesquipedalian Fruitcakes 
 Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. There ain't no more.
================================================================================
Xref: sparky alt.romance:13957 soc.singles:30557
From: parker@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Kirsten Parker)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Being Alone?
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:52:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: uars_mag.parker.721669946
Distribution: usa
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

conser@CS.ColoState.EDU (glenn eldon conser) writes:

>In article <1992Nov12.022755.17214@microsoft.com> allanl@microsoft.com (Allan Lockridge) writes:
>>What is the longest period of time between boyfriend/girlfriend?
>>Basically, I am interested in what is considered a normal length
>>of time after one breaks up to when a new boy/girlfriend is found.

>> Allan

>Sorry, Allen, there is no "normal" length of time.  Everybody is different,
>and will procede ahead at their own pace.  These little differences are 
>what make us human (and what make life worth living).  Sorry if I disappoint
>you with my answer, but this is how I see it.


>P.S. I've been a silent observer for a while, this is my first post here, so I
>guess I should say HI EVERYBODY!!!!!


I too am new to this news group so hi, y'all.  I was ungraciously dumped
by my boyfriend of three years about four months ago.  And I can tell
you I plan on being "independent" for at least year before I'm ready
to set myself up for rejection again.  I'm only 23 so I guess there's
plenty of time.  I'd also like to say that it was great to read in 
some previous posts that some guys out there actually do like 
intelligent women.  That's reassuring!

Kirstie
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles
From: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Being Alone?
Originator: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: in your face!
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 22:04:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.204505.16898@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt) writes something insightful,
worth coming out of lurkdom for:

>Anyway, I'm kind of surprised no one has the opinion that it's okay
>to be alone.

To modify what you're saying somewhat, I'd rather not be in a
relationship than be in one where I'm unhappy.  It is possible not to
be in a relationship, yet not be *alone*, if one has friends, family,
and other activities to keep them occupied.  It is also possible to
feel lonely for the companionship of an SO, but not to let that make
them unhappy and/or desperate.

Given this, all other things being equal, I'd rather be in a good,
healthy, working relationship than none (assuming I had time and
energy to devote to the other person).

>One isn't going to have a SO all one's life.  Does that mean that the
>time you're alone is bad and the time you're with someone is good?

I can't speak for everyone, but the time I'm with someone is better,
in a sense.  It's like the icing on the cake, if you will.

>No.  I believe you meet someone by chance.  You're in the right place
>at the right time and so is the other person.  It sounds like we leave
>a lot to chance this way but that's the way society works right now.
>You don't meet someone when you're not seeking someone, or when you're
>"ready" for a relationship.  It just happens.

Generally speaking, I think this is true.  Some exceptions might be
people who did things with the express purpose of finding an SO, like
joining a singles club, dating service, etc., who actually paired up
with someone shortly after.

>I can certainly understand needing time to get over a broken up
>relationship.  Once you're done healing there's no reason you can't
>be just as happy on your own.  If you're not then I don't think your
>being very fair to yourself. You're saying, "I'm not a complete
>person unless I have a SO."

We live in a very couples-oriented society.  The message we get from
the media, etc. is that being in a relationship (particularly
marriage) is the greatest thing that one should aspire to do.  I think
if instead we (as a society) were encouraged to find fulfillment
within ourselves, we would feel less compelled to (explicitly) seek
out partners.  This doesn't preclude people forming relationships, but
there would be a lot less stress and anxiety about it.

>You, know it seems like my friends who do have SOs are the ones whose
>lives are misserable.

A lot of people (not everybody!) get into relationships with people
who aren't good for them, or look to the other person to make them
happy.  Most likely they'd be miserable whether or not they were
seeing someone.

--gregbo
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: casey@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sean Casey GSFC (301)286-4558)
Subject: Re: Becoming attracted to friends
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA/GSFC-Laboratory for Astronomy and Solar Physics
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:08:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.194310.12209@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, DUDE@OSWEGO!UB! ( ) writes...
>friend that I am very much attracted to. We met last spring and kept in
>touch over the summer through letters. During the summer she began to date
>someone else, but that relationship crashed with the coming of fall. At the
>moment I know she isn't seeing anyone and we spend all are time together.
>We go out every weekend and yet our relationship has remained purerly on
>a platonic level. I know she has some feelings for me yet she seems very
>much afraid of commitment. I am aware that she has had very poor experience
>with dating and she tells me that although she's attracted to me,she feels
>much safer as just friends.
>  There are many things that stand between us. Our political view are com-
>pletely opposite and we are from different religious backgrounds. She
>worries that relationships hinder independence, while I think they make
>a person more free.
>  She was beaten as a child and her father abandoned her, Thus she is in
>a way distrustful of men.
>  On the other hand, as friends we could not be closer. I still want more
>from the relationship. The only thing I can do is continue to be there for
>her and to show her that I truly care. I hope that in this way she will
>eventually see that I am not a threat to her. Perhaps someone out there
>on the net will have some useful advise.
> 
>  I would like to mention that I'm not just trying to get her in the
>sack. She is an important person to me and when I say more out of the
>relationship, I am more concerned with emotional love than physical. I
>desire a permanant relationship.


  Sounds like you a getting ready for the big fall there. I'd be
  ready for some hard times ahead. Cause when she's ready to fall
  for somebody else, you can expect to feel like yesterday's
  newspaper.

  SC (just my opinion)




Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: Angelica <anonymus+2278@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Falling in love via phone?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:42:27 EST
Organization: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
     <1992Nov7.204108.3155@cognet.ucla.edu>
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

From: sbecker
In article <1992Nov5.164359.44445@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> ,
sbecker@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>I hope all of you folks out there will give me some feedback on the
situation I
>find myself in.  I met someone via alt.personals (I am somewhat
embarrassed to
>admit) and we've been conducting epic phone calls for the past three
weeks. 
>The conversations have heated up, become quite intimate, with each of us
>sharing secret fears and hoped, even having phone sex the last few times
>(blush)
>
>What I want to know is do you think it's possible to fall in love on the
phone?
> Or am I/are we delusing ourselves?  He's visiting me here in Kansas
from Utah
>this weekend and I'm nervous, anxious, excited . . .any advice/feednack
on this
>subject?  I'm new to the net and haven't even met *friends* this way
before.
>
>Wish us luck!b1


Yes, falling in love via phone can happen, or at least developing a close
enough
friendship/relationship that can very easily turn into love!  Go by your
instinct
and don't let others talk you out of it.  Go for it and best of luck!  :-)

BTW, I'm going all the way to California (from Michigan) to meet a
special man
I have gotten to know through the net and phone - I can't wait!
Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: vdjokich@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Vesna Djokich)
Subject: Help wanted in Florida
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:21:55 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


Hi!  I don't think this is the right news group for this, but I
don't know where else to send this.       
I'm travelling down to Florida near the end of December, and I was
wondering if anyone who lives in the area that I will be visiting
is able to let me use their account so that I can log into my
account and/or send mail to my account.  I would like to do this
to keep in touch with my SO while I'm away, and for a few     
"scholarly" things.
Thanks in advance,

Vesna


Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller)
Subject: Re: H*ll of a situation!
Organization: VideOcart Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:45:03 GMT

z_arthurjk@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
: I haven't met a nice young woman to have a rewarding relationship
: with in over two years.  Love just isn't on my side.  I'm sort of shy
: around women but I don't think that's the main problem.  People
: have given me a number of answers to this situation.  
: Among them are:
: 
: 1.  I'm too nice of a guy and I should start being more of a bastard.
:   
: 2.  There are no really nice women around anymore.
: 
: 3.  Women think my personality is to good to be true.
: 
: 4.  Because of my good looks and personality, women assume that
:     I'm already taken.(Don't laugh...I've actually been told this
:     by some of them)
: 
: This is one h*ll of a situation to be in!
: What, if anything, can I do to get out of this predicament?
: This is not a joke! I'm serious.

Ha.  1 & 2 just don't exist. 3 could only be true if women knew you, and
you said that you are shy around them. 4 is possible. and if 4 is the case
and you are shy, they assume you don't talk  because you are taken.

I think you are just selling yourself short is all. Get out with the
attitude that you are a good catch, and drop the shyness if possible.

You will undoubtedly find yourself liking the results.

Good Luck.

Dave Fuller
dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com

Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: djstephe@socs.uts.edu.au (88383944 d j stephenson)
Subject: Re: I'm in love but....
Keywords: love
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:40:07 GMT

	Maybe it is because girls who have a boyfriend already tend to be very
  happy, alive... hence attractive.

	Maybe it is because you are a little afraid of having a relationship
  so you choose impossible ones. Maybe you love the idea, not the reality.

	Maybe

		- Dave


Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)
Subject: answer to bi-racial dating and arguing about it...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 01:01:26 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

What I wrote about interracial dating was in response to a question posted
in this open forum.  I could have easily and slyly answered the posted 
message directly and privately but instead I chose to post it publicly as
this method would promote further discussion and opinion.  I have had
many responses.  I've answered each and every one and I thank you all.

By the way, only one reply was angry. All the other replies written by
both men and women of varying ages and racial backgrounds were in agreement.

The net is a place where adults post opinions and thoughts.  Most are used
to serve the purpose of engaging discussion, learning from one another and
further, to express opinions which the readers may choose to agree or
disagree with.  If you lack experience in a matter or intellect- there is
no reason for you to participate or respond. Simply, find a subject which
you personally can handle that won't ruffle your own personal feathers too
much.  

The net is public for posting and responding.  If you don't like the material,
move on.

Newsgroups: alt.romance
From: tkousky@next03csc.wam.umd.edu (Timothy Robb Kousky)
Subject: Re: Confused...
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:31:01 GMT

In article <22OCT199211290388@trentu.ca> ibonnycastle@trentu.ca (The Black  
Wolf) writes:
>  I am slightly confused about what to do. I am a romatic at heart, and I 
> can never get enough of it, but when it comes to relationships, I don't 
> know how fast or slow to go. With the current girl I'm going with, who  
is 
> really shy, I sometimes feel that I'm going too fast. But when I ask,  
she 
> says everything is okay. How fast is too fast? (Can anyone out there  
help?)

I know what you mean.  No one can really say how fast is too fast, it  
varries from one person to the next, however I know that if you feel that  
you are moving too fast, then you probalbly are.  If this is the case,  
slow down just a little.  Besides, you have the rest of your life to live,  
don't try to squeeze it all into a month or even a year.  Take your time.