HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israeli lobby
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:10:23 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

<knotes>

<o>#clip

<des>

     The Israeli lobby is already attacking Bill Clinton's
     foreign policy appointments as being insufficiently
     pro-Israel. (Gelb New York Times 1/7/93)

<doctype>newspaper op-ed article
<author>Gelb, Leslie
<title>The Diversity Trap
<newspaper>The New York Times
<date>January 7, 1993
<pages>A23

<excerpt>

     Reagan Democrats squawk about Bill Clinton shortchanging
     them in favor of Carter foreign policy liberals. Jewish
     leaders complain that the Clinton team isn't sufficiently
     Jewish or pro-Israel....

     As for conservative Democrats and pro-Israel Jews, they too
     deserve representation in the Administration. But some job
     candidates from these groups can't work with anyone who
     disagrees with them. Their tolerance for diversity is zero.
     And Mr. Clinton has to exercise great care not to mortgage
     his policies to their rigid views.

     Many of these same people screamed a year ago that
     President Bush and Secretary of State Baker were
     anti-Semites and enemies of Israel. The truth was that both
     men wanted to change certain hard-line Israeli policies, not
     hurt Israel.

     Now these self-appointed arbiters of who loves Israel are
     targeting Secretary of State-designate Warren Christopher
     and the national security adviser-to-be, Anthony Lake. Yet
     none have the foggiest idea of what Mr. Lake or Mr.
     Christopher thinks about Israel. The appointees' guilt
     rests solely on their having served Jimmy Carter. And while
     some Carter officials were too hard on Israel and naive
     about the Arabs, so were scores of officials in every
     Administration since Harry Truman's.

     Singling out Jimmy Carter is particularly monstrous because
     he undoubtedly did more to insure Israel's security than any
     President before or since. At direct risk to his power and
     prestige, he personally brought about peace between Egypt
     and Israel at Camp David. That treaty, along with Israeli
     military power, has prevented a new Mideast war.

     Nonetheless, Mr. Clinton seems poised to reward the
     purveyors of this anti-Carter, guilt-by-association garbage
     by naming ideologues of their choice to his team....

</o>
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  A duck can quack but his quack never echoes.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24672 talk.politics.soviet:10219 soc.culture.greek:12037 soc.history:10535
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: Zionism (was Re: All Arabs...)
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date:  5 Jan 93 20:06:38 GMT

In <1993Jan5.190044.26415@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:

[quote from following book here]

>		Maxime Rodinson, _Israel: a colonial-settler state?_
>		Monad Press, 1973.


You know, with a name like that, the quoted book has no credibility
whatsoever.  Sort of the same way a book called "Israel: A State
That Among the Greatest in the World?" would lack credibility.

BTW, I read Rodinson's book, and found it to be a waste of good
trees. IMHO, that is.



--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,sci.lang
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 07:28:00 GMT

Ivan A Derzhanski (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec29.064921.26491@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> howeird@hpl.hp.com (Howard Stateman) writes:
: >[...] my Finnish friends are fond of telling me that the
: >language of their homeland is most closely related to Hungarian.
: 
: It isn't.  There are umpteen Finnic languages, to which Finnish is
: more closely related than it is to Hungarian.  Check Estonian, for one.
: 
: >Not Turkish.
Well, when I was in Turkey 1976 for the first time there I heard the the
turks consider finnish as a relatice language to turkish. There is so called
Ural-Altaic language group which is devided into two branches, fenno-ugrian
languages and turkish languages. In Finland it is not told to which larger
language group fenno-ugrian languages belong.

Just superficially compareing turkish and finnish grammar one finds easily
similarities which are not typical for indo-european languages.

In addition to that I met some koreans a few years ago and they showed for
me a koran book. There was explained that finnish is related with korean 
language, or vice versa korean to finnish. They as well told that the
koreans like the finns come from Central-Asia. 
And indeed, fenno-ugrians peoples have allways been moving on the tundras
and forests of Eurasia so why not, there has not been such borders in ancient
times as today.

One should not mic language and reace, but still anyone visiting Finland
can notice that many finns have "asiatic" looks a little. And some years
ago a scinetist by blood terst proved, that the finns have "asian factors"
in blood. I however do not remember the name of the man, a finn however.

I do not think that the finns are in a bad company, the contrary if
the finns are relatives with the koreans and turks. I think we are in a
good company in such case.

In Turkey was used at techers seminar for decades a book named A land
of white lilies as a reading book. The book is written by a russian
and it describes a country which came out of "darkness" when her people
learned to read and write. The same book was used also in Officiers Schools
in Turkey earlier. So elderly, educated generation share the belief that
the turks and the finns are relatives in Turkey. The book namely described
Finland as an example, and as a relative people.
The book may not be used any more. It was not used in promary schools as
someone wrote, only at the teachers seminars.
regards,
jarmo ryyti
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24912 talk.politics.soviet:10265 soc.culture.greek:12083 soc.culture.europe:11038 soc.history:10592 soc.culture.soviet:11876
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: All Israelis are guilty
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:42:07 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <1i7h0hINNaj7@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:
>In article <232@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>>I    Ahmed Yassin was arrested not kidnapped.
>
>By your same logic, your policeman was arrested and not kidnapped.

   Ahmed Yassin was a head of terroristic organisation. He is personally
responsible for killing dozens Jews and hundreds Arabs.
Nissim Toledano was just a policeman. His only crime was being Israeli.
MP's message proves (yet another time) that Moslem fanatics
want to destroy Israel and any negotiations with them are useless.
   Dan
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel vs. the world
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:21:35 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Edinburgh University

~In article <1993Jan6.144936.24280@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

~~ we still have you and Henderson to be our voice
~~of reason and compassion.
~
~It's certainly a sad day when people need to be reminded that shooting little
~girls is wrong.




-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Yousef Islam
Keywords: To Adam
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:45:10 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Islam in 1990, per your inquiry:

>In article <1993Jan3.180442.23504@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
>
>I don't think you get it.  He would have had bad feelings if it were
>the case that Cat Stevens converted from Judaism to Islam (or to
>Christianity, or to Zoroastroism (?sp), or Buddism etc) since it is
>considered a cardinal sin in Judaism to convert to another religion.
>He was not singling out Islam.

Sorry, I obviously misunderstood because it was unclear.  What is the
punishment for such a "cardinal sin" of converting from Judaism to
another religion?

>Also as I remember it, Yousef Islam was allowed into Israel when he
>came to visit.  He even made the requisite propaganda speeches after
>his visit criticizing the Israel occupation blah, blah, blah.

This is from an article in the Rocky Mountain News of July, 1990:

	"Islam irked by airport incident"

	"Former pop singer Cat Stevens, now known as Yusuf Islam,
	said yesterday in London that Israeli authorities expelled
	him without explanation after holding him and his son at
	the airport and searching his belongings.  Islam said in a
	statement he endured a 'three-hour ordeal' while his luggage
	was 'ripped apart'.  He said he arrived at Ben-Gurion Airport
	on July 1 with his 5-year-old son, Muhammad, to attend a
	Moslem folk festival."

Now let's see your evidence to support your statement.

After such an experience do you think he should praise Israel?  Or is
every Muslim, who wants to enter the Holy Land, suspected of being a
terrorist?  His statements aside from this ordeal, stems from the anger
of the injustices on Palestinian Muslims from the Israeli government
and its oppressive policies.  As a good and devote Muslim, he certainly
takes the following hadith to heart, "Whosoever of you sees an evil action,
let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with
his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart - and that
is the weakest of faith."
 
>If Yousef Islam considers Islamic & Muslim charities to include paying
>the reward money for Salman Rushdie's assasination, I think the world
>can do without this kind of "charity".

Iran has issued the reward - it has not asked Muslims to contribute
to the expense.  Only to the justice.
 
Anisa

	"Find your sisters and brothers who can hear all the
	truth in what you say.  They can support you when you're
	on your way."	[Shaking The Tree]
From: gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:49:52 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan6.190629.19897@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:

>A word's meaning is defined by how it is coined and used, not how its
>roots define it.  "Inflammable" does not mean "not flammable", nor
>does "sycophant" imply a fruit seller (sukon - fig, phantes - to
>show).  "Anti-Semite" was coined and has always been understood to
>mean "Anti-Jew".

Not by the majority of the Semites.  Interesting this fact, no?
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: israel vs. the world
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:48:26 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1993Jan6.181737.29603@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
~
~jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
~#dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
~#
~## we still have you and Henderson to be our voice
~## of reason and compassion.
~#
~# It's certainly a sad day when people need to be 
~# reminded that shooting little girls is wrong.
~
~I think everybody knows that, and most people would agree the girl
~wasn't shot on purpose. I am also sure that before the British
~turned half of the German cities into burning infernos they took
~care that all the little boys and girls would be evacuated.

Same old silly arguments. Do I have to repeat that just because I was born
in Britain I do not necessarily support, or bear any responsibility for, the
actions of people who happened to be born in the same islands several decades
earlier?

Or are you making some kind of racial generalisation here?

As for the little girl, I think that most people know that firing a weapon in 
the direction of children is a criminally irresponsible act that in most
civilised countries would lead to a trial for manslaughter.









-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:43:56 GMT

In article <29951@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

>I think you'd have heard an outcry if the teenager had simply been gunned down
>in the street. Can you say "Kent State"?

The police in New York City are armed because their lives are
regularly put in danger.  When they shoot to kill, and do so in
self-defense, there is no outcry.  It happens all the time.

Somehow, the UN, situated right here in NYC, doesn't seem to say much
about the Occupation Forces in NYC.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:46:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan4.232233.15048@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <29851@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>>First of 
>>all we can dispose of the myth that Rabin is a peacemaker [...]
>
>If only people would dispose of the same myth surrounding yasser
>Arafat, then we might finally be getting somewhere.

What do we have do go on, Jake, by believing that Rabin actually
IS a peacemaker?

Let's see:

	Did he recognize Palestinian rights and sovereignty?

	Is he willing to withdraw from the Occupied Territories?

	Does he wish to improve the living conditions of Palestinians in
	the Territories?

	Does he call for a reduction of brutality [murder, torture, etc.]
	by Israeli soldiers in the Territories?

	Does he call for a freeze in settlement building?

	What exactly is he willing to GIVE to promote peace, security,
	and stability to Palestinians?

Anisa
	"Whaddaya mean I hurt your feelings?  I didn't know 
	you HAD any feelings!"
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: JLE IS STILL ON
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:45:24 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan09.040330.101291@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani) writes:
>
>I still managed to get connection for a few more weeks via a seperate
>net.

Ya Salam!  (? :-)

>			"Jaboo Al shaheed Jaboo, Ya farhit Immo w-aboo"
>			 72 Horiyyat in Jenna  :) :D
			 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Only if you are a shahid, my brother.  ;-)

But may Allah give you what you wish, insha'Allah ...

(I can see it now:  Salam, ya houriyat ... you haven't SEEN jihad yet!)

Anisa

P.S.  Read WITH humor ... :-)

	"For a person who takes a step, in the pursuit
	of truth and righteousness, all that happens
	is good."
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25104 soc.culture.turkish:14050 soc.culture.soviet:12003
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Turkiye has prospered for over 65 years without EC, "Dandy"...
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 22:39:06 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan5.210517.20575@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:

>Perfectly agreed. Rational thinking from EC excludes Turkey.

That laughter is the only cure for "palik" grief. Turkiye has prospered 
for over 65 years without EC, and I see no reason to change it. Turkiye, 
however, will still pursue its efforts to be admitted to the EC. This 
remains one of the country's major foreign policy objectives for two 
reasons: Economically, more than 40 percent of Turkiye's foreign trade 
is with the EC. Politically, the Turks have a strong desire to be affiliated 
or integrated with Europe. Besides, the twenty first century will be 
Turkiye's century. This has nothing to do with 'Turanism.' This is the 
result of the changed destiny of the world in the last three years. 
However, as chances for such a partnership with the 'Twelve' in a 
near future look now slim, the people of Turkiye are seeking ways
of establishing 'other relationships' that would supplement - if
not replace fully - a partnership with the EC members. Turkiye should 
not use only one, but several options at the same time, which include 
establishing closer ties with the Islamic world, the United States and 
Japan. That would also be in line with the concept of a 'multi-dimensional 
synthesis,' which the people of Turkiye seem to cherish.


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24979 talk.politics.soviet:10288 soc.culture.greek:12096 soc.culture.europe:11056
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: "George William Herbert" goes to Washington D.C.
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:00:48 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1993Jan7.102701.14589@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> nesbitt@govan.edu writes:
 > Actually Mutlu had quite an amusing turn of phrase, something seriously lacking
 > in the Serdar Argic postings.

Right.  Can we get Hasan B. back?
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: world 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:32:28 GMT

In <Jan.5.19.15.02.1993.4354@bach.rutgers.edu> marwang@bach.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:

>(about the israeli policeman executed by Hamas ) ...

># According to the news reports I heard, this policeman was kidnapped
># just outside of his home, so I presume he was off-duty, i.e., a
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
># civilian at the time. Or does joining the police force immediately
># remove all of one's civil rights?

>I remember that Israel procecuted an alledged Nazi criminal though he

Which 'alleged' Nazi are you refering to? And did he indeed commit war
crimes? Now, back to the Israeli policeman. Did he commit any crimes?
If not, is killing him simply because he is a policeman and some
policemen have commited crimes a just act. Hell, some men have murdered
and raped, I am a man, therefore I should be executed? 

The Palestinians do their case no earthly good with people around the
world when they adhere to groups like Hammas. No matter what spin you
put on it, they come across as terrorists, pure and simple. Example,
how much sympathy do you think the American, and other, hostages won
for your cause? Have these criminals been brought to justice by the
Lebanese government? Not bloody likely.

>was "off-duty" ... Are you saying that Israel should have forgoten about
>all the attrocities that he had done just because he was "off-duty" at
>the time of the arrest (kidnap).

Certainly not if he was guilty of atrocites, but it has not been shown
to me that the Israeli policeman had commited any atrocities. By all
means bring those who are guilty to justice, but the attitude in the
mideast seems to be that, Oh country X did this bad thing therefore
let us kill any citizen of country X.
>--Marwan

REB

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Ghali to Send Another Envoy to Israel
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:30:28 GMT


According to the BBC (0300 UTC 5-1-93) the U.N. Secretary General, Dr.
Boutros Boutros Ghali, has reiterated that the deportation of 415
Palestinians by Israel is illegal under international law and must be
reversed. He is sending another envoy to Israel, after the failure of
his previous envoy, to attempt to get Israel's compliance.

It is interesting to note that the Voice of America (0300 UTC 5-1-93)
presented this news in a "slightly" different way. It was reported that
the envoy's task would be to "mediate between Lebanon and Israel".
Apparently there is some discrepency between what Dr. Ghali hopes to
achieve and what the U.S. government hopes that he achieves :-)

Brad "Ali" Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast