From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Christian bashing???
Date: 9 Nov 1992 07:09:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, "Jim Thomas " (tk0jut1@niu.bitnet) says:

>
>Ruth seems quite insensitive to the gross comments she made, and she
>clearly is unable to understand how and why her comments have raised
>hackles.
Jim, not only do I understand why I'm being flamed [especially by you] I
expect to be flamed for my beliefs.  It's part of the deal.  As for accusing
me of making insensitive, gross comments, to paraphrase Graham quoting 
a certain parable - get the lumber out of your own eyes before attempting to
take some out of mine.  

>I recall no one on this list as having ever "bashed" another for their
>religious beliefs. No one in this recent thread has said made a single
Then what do you call this?  I call it an exercise in futility.

>Bible. Ruth professes tolerance and advocates that others treat her
>tolerantly. Yet, she supports legislation that allows (and in Oregon
>would have required) discrimination against those she finds "evil."
The first part is correct; the second is pure crap.  I won't bother to say
anythiing more; it's not worth the frustration.

>Ruth claims that only "demons" can demonize without recognizing the
>metaphoric trope that refers to how actions of <humans> stigmatize
>some groups and thereby justify their persecution.
Bull.  Again.  You don't believe in demons?  Fine.  I do - they're here,
they're near, and they're not going anywhere.  Or so I believe.

>A re-reading of her earlier post confirms that she used the
>pathological example of alcoholism to draw an analogy to gays and
We covered this one with Graham - analogies are inherently flawed.  Next
subject.

>lifestyles are wrong. Her views are quite explicit, her words are not
>ambiguous. Those words are precisely the words used by those who
>advocate "live and let live" only when their own interests are
>threatened, but not when they threaten the interests of others.

Wrong again - if I say I believe something is wrong, then I do.  Have I
attempted to apply my morality to you?  Or anyone else?  No.  Do what you
want.
>No, it is *NOT* Christianity that is under attack. It is the political
Sure looks like it from here.  
>rather nasty ways into the lives of others.  By twisting her
>interpretation of resistance to the intrusions into "Christian
>bashing," Ruth attempts to dodge the issue of intolerance and blame
>her victims.
More crap.  Again.  Go dump it somewhere else, Jim.  

>Ruth errs when she claims I call the implications of her views nasty
>by reducing it to mean little more than "I don't like it very much."
You don't like it at all - let's be honest.  You think I'm applying them
to other people, when it's actually been you and only you who's done that.

>She simply can't understand that it's not the views, but rather the
>consequences of those views I find reprehensible.  She errs again when
What consequences?  That I can't stay mad at you?  That I think you're wrong?
So far, all I've done is argue with you, and that hasn't had much effect.

>she reduces opposition to her views as PC/liberalism: No, Ruth.
>Fundamentalists have declared those with whom I associate as "the
>enemy," as "evil," as "sinful." And, they have acted accordingly.  I
>respect your <religious beliefs> Ruth, but when you translate them
>into political action that symbolizes an attack on an enemy, you have
>created an enemy.
>
OK, but then I have been expecting to make enemies. If a bunch of people
who live their own lives by rigid rules attempt to apply them to others,
they deserve what they get.  That's fundies too, Jim.  I have taken no
political action of that sort, and will not.  I will not throw stones, being
not without sin.  All I ask is that you stop throwing them at me, especially
as your target lies elsewhere.
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does