HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore)
Subject: Re: All that fat
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:09:14 GMT

budn@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Bud Noren) writes:

>jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore) writes:

>>The real interesting conclusion was that even if this data
>>proved conclusive beyond dispute, it would never be published
>>in main stream literature here. 

>Well, I think it will indeed get published and even get publicity; 
>I'd call a report on prime time TV pretty good publicity.  However,
>the BATF, the governing body in such affairs, is extremely reluctant 
>to permit anything positive about the consumption of wine on wine
>labels themselves but they require a surgeon general's warning
>as to the dangers of consumption on every label.  Pretty bogus.

I should be more clear. 60 minutes is big time coverage. What I meant
was that it would never result in health advice given out by the
government or doctors. Our old "4 major food groups" slogan is more a result
of politics and special interest than data. I suspect this audience
doesn't care, since nutrition is a big part of cycling and we do
our own research. But many people accept government recommendations
at face value. My mother-in-law was shocked to find that my wife
and I do not feed our 3 year old daughter whole milk. All the evidence
I have read shows that raw milk is not good food for anyone and that
it is not in the diet of most cultures. But we (Americans) are blessed
with a strong dairy industry.  My mother-in-law urged us to consult
our doctor before endangering our daughters health. She is completely
convinced the government recommendations are best. My parents raised
me and my siblings with the "4 food groups". My real comment here
is to get your own data and draw your own conclusion. Also be open
that there may be new and contradictory data. The government is not
your friend here (unless they are supporting the industry that provides
your job ;^)

jim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Q: What kind of clipless pedals and shoes to buy?
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:02:18 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <9208190034.AA20885@hplomg.hpl.hp.com>
BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:

>Michael Babineau writes:
>> I would find it a bit scary using the Single-Release cleat, knowing
>> the only way to get out is by twisting your heels outward.
>
>What can I say but "fearmonger".  This sounds like the admonitions of
>non bicyclists when they heard that racers strap their feet into their
>pedals.  Fools, they were called for not realizing they could rip off
>their feet.  Mike, I hope you know that people come out of shoes
>before they rip off their feet (unless they ski).  In car accidents,
>fully laced shoes are often left behind by passengers in a collision.
>However, bike shoes separate from pedals long before such a force is
>exerted.
>
>
>Since pedals rotate, no torque in that plane bears on the foot.  Thus
>the only hazardous force is twist but this is the release force.  I
>think you are gratuitously throwing in a hypothetical concern that has
>no merit.  What I wonder, is why.

Well, there are THREE possible torques:

  * pitch -- the axis is lateral -- the normal pedalling axis

  * yaw -- the release direction -- the axis is vertical

  * ROLL, which is rotation about an axis parallel to the top tube.

The magnitudes of the forces may not be enough to damage the foot, but the
concern is not completely misplaced.

-dk
From: rhealy@arrl.org (Rus Healy, NJ2L)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Training for time trials, criteriums, etc
Summary: Any good books on the subject?
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:04:02 est
Organization: American Radio Relay League

Does anyone here know of any good books on training for bike 
racing?

Thanks in advance.

--Rus
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: pros in olympics
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:02:24 GMT

les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???) writes:
>>this is my personal opinion, but i don't really think pros
>>should be allowed to ride in the olympics.
>Unfortunately, you are about 100 years late with this idea -- pros
>have been participating in nearly all olympic sports from the
>beginning.  Never mind that we call them "amateur" -- they make their
>living from participation in the sport.  In addition to these
>professional amateurs, there are also amateur amateurs (who generally
>don't make it to the Olympics), amateur professionals (i.e. athletes
>who hold professional licenses but can't make a living from their
>sport; they too will not make it to the Olympics) and professional
>professionals, who are now beginning to appear in the Olympics.
>The only thing that is changing is a reduction in hypocracy.
>Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
>Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
>UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
I strongly disagree with this.  There's a big difference between a "pro"
amateur who barely makes aliving from the sport and a pro multimillionaire.
I predict that the increasing commercialization and "professionalisim"
of the Olympics will result in drastically reduced interest by the
viewing public.  I could be wrong but time will tell.
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: My Bicycle Helmet Experience
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:38:03 GMT

marquis@well.sf.ca.us (Roger Marquis) writes:
>group) and take pride in my 20 years of _safe_ riding.  I wonder about 
>those who seem to revel in detailing their accidents.  Do you like to
>talk about the results of poor riding or do you believe it 'wasn't
>your fault'?  
>I would not discourage anyone from wearing a helmet.  I think they are
>a great idea if you feel better wearing one.  I just wonder why some
>people feel compelled to criticize others who enjoy cycling without a
>foam bucket on their heads.  It couldn't be that comfortable if
>everyone takes them off as soon as the dismount (except for a few
>oddballs).  Having put in over 200,000 miles in various conditions, on
>various continents, I tend to put more faith in my own judgment of
>when a helmet is appropriate than others, like Les Earnst, who
>ride relatively little yet nevertheless seem to feel they know what is 
>best for me.
>Roger (marquis@well.sf.ca.us)
Get real.  There are many reasons for crashing that are beyond the bike
riders control.  I'm sure most pros are better riders than you but they
crash.  I don't know what kind of helmets you're talking about but
most made within the last few years are more than comfortable enough to
keep on.  Try a Gyro Air Attack SC and you'll see what I mean.  I think
people criticize because they know the results of needless injury due to
not wearing a helmet.  Personally I enjoy reading about how peoples helmets
saved them from injury.  It makes me feel good.  Why do you feel compelled
to criticize them?
-Terry
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: Vetta 200 Wireless Computer
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:08:54 GMT

In article <truesdel-130892161758@cobler.ics.uci.edu> truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell) writes:
>This is only one data point, but I have had bad luck with Vetta 200.
>They are being dumped because there is a newer model, the Vetta 300.
>I hear it's not much better.

I *had* a 300 until it fell off my mountain bike while I was riding across a
wood bridge.  I didn't notice it right away and never found it.  The
mount never really seemed secure.

My Cateye ATC from Colo Cyclist arrived today.  It looks much better,
much like my Cateye Solar.


Mike Iglesias                        Internet:    iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu
University of California, Irvine     BITNET:      iglesias@uci
Office of Academic Computing         uucp:        ...!ucbvax!ucivax!iglesias
Distributed Computing Support        phone:       (714) 856-6926
From: jmoulder@mis.mcw.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Re: All that fat
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:35:03 CDT
Organization: Medical College of Wisconsin

>> High fat diets are linked to a number of serious
>> diseases (such as various cancers), not just heart disease.
> 
> There must be *SOME* fat in the diet.

Yes, but it would be very difficult to get your fat intake so low as to cause
problems unless you starving yourself, or living off a diet of pure sugar.

> Your logic is flawed. . . If a cyclist is doing enough mileage . . . 
> caloric needs will be so great that they can consume a considerable
> amount of fat and still stay under the AHA guideline of <30% of 
> total calories from fat.

This may not be valid.  I am not aware of studies which show that excersize
will counteract *all* the health problems associated with a high-fat diet.  
Most of the big published studies simply don't address this question.

> I have received recommendations from R.D. nutritionists to include
> some fat in the diet for endurance riding.  

Bit I'll bet he recommended that it be under 30% of total calories

> I rigorously followed a low fat diet while training/racing . . . 
> and climbed faster than I ever did.  The drawbacks were
> that I felt borderline hypoglycemic . . . [and] more susceptible 
> to severe bonking unless I consumed carbos nonstop while riding.  

A diet can be high in carbo, and still low in fat.  There is also the ugly
possibility that what is a good diet for endurance riding might not be a
good diet for health, but I find that hard to believe.

> A little meat, ice cream, and milk won't turn you into a supermodel with
> perfect teeth, nor will it strike you dead on the spot.

A little meat, icream and milk will not give you a diet in which fat exceeds
30% of total calories.

John Moulder (jmoulder@mis.mcw.edu)
Radiation Biology
Medical College of Wisconsin

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: drela@athena.mit.edu (Mark Drela)
Subject: Re: Re: All that fat
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:11:57 GMT

In article <z=+n=r.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
|> Looking at the calory counter in the latest Bicycling! I note
|> that they claim that a Tour de France rider uses some 6,000
|> calories per day. I think that you can only recover some
|> 30% of the calories eaten so that means that you have to eat
|> some 20,000 calories.

I think the 6,000 refers to food calories consumed.  Typically, one hour
of hard riding requires something like 500-700 calories of food intake over
and above one's sedentary requirement.  With the typical 5 hr TdF ride,
2500 calories are required for base metabolism, and 3500 calories are
expended producing mechanical power.  It adds up.

                   Mark Drela
             _______________________________
    o/LO  .' 
     O  .'  Gravity-Powered Technologies Lab 
      .'  MIT Aero-Astro Department  33-214
     '
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper)
Subject: Re: A different twist on the taxes issue
Organization: University of Waterloo Math Faculty Computing Facility, Ontario.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:28:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.132038.1997@cs.rochester.edu> scott@cs.rochester.edu (Michael Scott) writes:

>People argue that bicycles should get off the roads because they don't
>pay the gas and registration taxes that support the roads.

But nobody asks bicyclists to pay any registration or usage fees.  It
hardly seems fair to withdraw a privilege on the basis that it has not
been paid for if no effort is ever made to collect the payment.  Is
there in fact, any way in which bicyclists can, as individuals or
organizations, voluntarily make contributions towards road construction
and maintenance?

Adrian.
arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Dr_mackie@med.umich.edu (Don Mackie)
Subject: Re: Bicycle Cops on the Beat
Followup-To: Bicycle cops on the Beat
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:50:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.192320.5408@gandalf.ca> denis@gandalf.ca (Denis Godmaire)
writes:
>In <14434@mindlink.bc.ca> Greg_Tinsley@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Tinsley) writes:
>
>>Just to add to the list of cities using Bike Cops.  Add Vancouver B.C. to the
>>list....

Ann Arbor,MI has 'em. And mighty fine they look too.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de (Thomas Driemeyer)
Subject: Re: A different twist on the taxes issue
Organization: Thomas Driemeyer, Berlin
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:16:19 GMT

In article <Bt77nB.99y@math.uwaterloo.ca> arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
> Is
> there in fact, any way in which bicyclists can, as individuals or
> organizations, voluntarily make contributions towards road construction
> and maintenance?

Why would you want to? As others have pointed out, car taxes and fees
don't cover maintenance expenses anyway. Since a bicycle uses about one
sixth of the road space and parking space a car need, I would expect to
pay no more than one sixth of what car owners pay. Also, bicycles do
not damage roads, cars and trucks do. That means I don't want to pay the
cost of resurfacing the road every few years either.

A few years back, Dan Mocsny said something like "Take a car and pound
it on the road until it has completely turned to dust. Measure the depth
of the resulting hole. Then, do the same with a bicycle. Next, try a semi."
Have you noticed what a truck's tires can do to asphalt, especially in
the summer? Here, they are now using concrete at bus stops instead.

(BTW, does Dan still post? I always enjoyed his postings, but he used
Distribution: na, and distribution limits occasionally do work.)

Thomas
-- 

--
Thomas Driemeyer      thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de      voice/fax: +49 30 8924936
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: holliday@cse.unl.edu (david holliday)
Subject: Re: Poulidor's TdF record
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:03:24 GMT

>Martin Dix writes:

>Poulidor competed in the Tour from 1962 to 1976. His record over this
>time was
>3rd, 8th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 9th, DNF, 3rd, 7th, DNS, 3rd, DNF, 2nd, 19th, 3rd

Thanks for the interesting race info. If memory serves me correctly, (which
it often doesn't), I recall hearing that Poulidor never wore the yellow
jersey in the TdF a single day!!

Dave
----
From: javiers@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Javier Sanchez)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:46:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Looking for advice on purchase of TOURING bikes
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

Hi Everyone,

I'm posting this for a friend:

Kostrikin Frame, Fork and Stem.  Made in USA (Santa Rosa, CA)
frame mat'l: Custom Tubing (True Temper/Prestige)
Color: Clear Coated Metallic
Size: 19" center to center
extras: XT Headset and Bottom Bracket

$400.00 o.b.o. (Not including shipping)

Contact: Roger at 707-829-9271.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ramer@cis.uab.edu (K. Ramer)
Subject: Re: using presta tubes with a Schraeder wheel
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:19:36 GMT

In article <130@noah.sbc.com> gs7413@noah.sbc.com (Bert Soto) writes:
>In article <2A8AA85F.27636@ics.uci.edu>, self@pasteur.ics.uci.edu (John Self) writes:
>> 
>> I'd like to use Presta valve tubes in wheels drilled for Schraeder
>
>You shouldn't have any problem doing this.  I didn't.  Go ahead and use 
>the valve nut but don't tighten it down very hard.  Just make sure and 
>check the nut periodically so you don't lose it.
ALSO:
You can also help by getting a grommet to downsize the Schraeder hole to 
more nearly fit the Presta valve.
From: claborne@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Chris Claborne)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: OPINIONS: Trek 2100/2300, etc: Specialized E
Keywords: (Long)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:21:50 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

I have been looking at several bike and I ended up purchasing the TREK 2100.
I would have bought the 2300 but couldn't really justify the $400 permium
for:
   Shimano STD brake shift system (fell in love with them but... overpriced),
   19 speed  (would be a better climber)
   other minor equipment upgrades.

My level of cycling didn't really justify the bucks but now that I am getting
into it would be nice.  If you are thinking about racing, definately  
think about it unless you want to pop for an extra $1K.  (Definately, out of 
my league.)


    2
== C  ==
chris.claborne@sandiegoca.ncr.com                    CI$: 76340.2422
From: siddoway@austin.ibm.com (Derick Siddoway)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: test
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:03:46 GMT
Reply-To: ...@cs.utexas.edu:ibmaus!auschs!scepnet.austin.ibm.com!siddoway
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: siddoway@scepnet.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Aug13.164630.8268@mri.com>, douglas@mri.com (Douglas Blaisdell) writes:
> BThis is a test, this is a test of the rec.bicycles system
> for the next 60 sec...
> DB
> q
> Q
> :q
> :Q
> 
> :end

I love these ;-)

loki (Derick Siddoway)     Of COURSE these opinions are my own --
IBM Austin                 do you think anyone else would fess
siddoway@vnet.ibm.com      up to this drivel?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Re: A real pain in the foot
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:36:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.193552.9035@athena.mit.edu>
tye@elvis.mit.edu (Tye Brady) writes:
 
>
>Hi everybody.
>
>Problem:
>On longer rides/races I find that my right foot get a nasty, arthritic
>like pain on the outside of the foot, just below the smallest pig.  It
>starts aching in the shoe on the ride at about mile 40+, and even worse
>after the ride when I take the shoe off.  I've experimented with different
>pressure with the two velcro straps, but it still has not solved the
>problem.
>
I had this problem with Time shoes and Look cleats...and then I slid
the cleats back a half-inch. No more foot problems.
 
         --Mike
 
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:02:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Presta to Shraeder tire valve adapters
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

In rec.bicycles, cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:

> I have one that I've used once and it seemed to work fine.  I think
> it was $1.25 for a package of two at REI.  

I just picked up one of these over the weekend.  Works infinitely better than
the one that came with my (Schwinn) floor pump.  That one didn't screw on, so
even though there was a substantial rubber seal, the weight of the hose on the
valve would keep it from sealing well unless someone help it straight.  The
one I got at REI has a little rubber O-ring, screw on nice and tight, and
doesn't leak a bit.

--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: byars@mdd.comm.mot.com (David A. Byars)
Subject: RE:Bicycle Paths (Gas Tax)
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:02:38 GMT

I don't think cars should be outlawed, but I do think the
Gas Tax should be increased dramatically. Gas costs about
$1.25 - $1.50 a gallon at the pump, but what is the real cost?

Who should pay for the clean-up of oil spills if not the user's
of the product?
How much did Dessert Storm add to the real price of GAS? If my
tax dollars are used to pay the defense budget, am I not subsidizing
the fuel of all the cars that pass me as I bike to work? DO I like it?

Add $.50 a gallon to the gas tax and create an environmental fund.

db
byars@mdd.comm.mot.com
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Trek & MTB Sponsorship?
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:53:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <92225.090323U3C@psuvm.psu.edu> U3C@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>What is up with Trek....I was reading a article in Mountain Bike Action
>(ok,ok I like the pictures and the ads .... but it is written for
>MTB freaks who eat mexican food, drink too much beer, and have bonked
>their heads maybe one too many times....oops that describes me...)

That was the most accurate description of a Moutain Bike Fiction
reader as ever I saw. :-)

>and they brought up a good point ... why doesnt TREK sponsor a
>Pro mens or womens MTB team.  They are one of the biggest bike makers
>in the US (if not the world), you cant go anywhere without seen a
>Trek MTB (at least at Penn State), and they are selling a bizzilion bikes

I think you answered your own question. Why should they? They don't
need the additional sales, the advertising value or the liability
of having their bikes fail in a race.
From: henk@fudd.frcs.alt.za (Henk Coetzee)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: All that fat 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 02:16:12 GMT
Organization: FRCS mail/news uucp point


In article <rlewis.713733291@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca writes:

  > 
  > tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
  > 
  > >Speaking of fat in your diet: why is it that we all know that
  > >fat is bad for your heart? I ask this because I have an English
  > >Cookbook that practically oozes lard out of every recipe.
  > 
  > >Yet the british seem to life lives longer than we mere mortals.
  > 
  > Actually the British have an extremely high rate of heart disease, the 
  > highest in the world I believe (with Scotland and Northern Ireland
  > having the highest rates within the U.K.).  Having seen the average Brit
  > diet (as you say "practically oozes lard") I'm not surprised.

I understood that the white SOuth African had this. Comes from a combination
of genetics and a diet with a phenomenally high meat intake. 

I would be interested to hear from the other big meat eating countries
what they think, Australia or New Zealand for instance.

Myself I never touch the stuff.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Coetzee         |
P.O. Box 26305       |   More arms do not make mankind safer,
Arcadia              |   only poorer
Pretoria             |                    The Brandt report
0007                 |
Pretoria             |
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber frames (was  OPINIONS: Trek 2100/2300..)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 20:49:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: (Long)

In article <1992Aug22.191120.14414@leland.Stanford.EDU> djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly) writes:
>
>I hope Chris doesn't take this personally as I don't know his
>circumstances, but I find it curious how many riders who are
>admittedly recreational/fitness riders are willing to pay a high
>price for carbon fiber or titanium frames, titanium saddles, etc. to
>save at most 2% of total mass.
> (I'd buy)
>a Bridgestone with Ultegra or equivalent over a Trek Carbon with 105
>unless I was maybe doing hill climb time trials.

I find the same problems with people's choices. But then I'm not the
one ponying up the bucks. My preference is the $1,100 Dianmond Back
Prevail with the Ultegra STI.
>
>BTW I am further amused at how many of the titanium-equipped riders
>are clearly overweight.  I don't want to judge other people's
>priorities, but still...

This is also my observation. Whenever I look down I see lots
of room for improvement _before_ I reach the titanium stage. :-)


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles