Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:37:52 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 587

In this issue:
                  New Books To Look Out For (read/buy)
                      A.D.A. against HOMOSEXUALS?
                                  rape
                             Olympic games
                         What Is QueerNet.Org?
              Countries Which Permit Same-Gender Marriage
                            survey for class
            COPYRIGHT ISSUES [Was  Re: News: Metzenbaum/BSA]
                                olympics
                          SIG FILES INFINITUM
                       Republicans and being gay
                              living a lie
                                olympics
        GAO Report on the Costs of the DOD Ban on Homosexuality

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@ATHENA.MIT.EDU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: New Books To Look Out For (read/buy)
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:59:26 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

"Gary Klein, bear at heart" <GKLEIN@uoft02.utoledo.edu> writes:

>     The article is a bit too long to retype here, but I will give you the
>listing of "FORTHCOMING BOOKS IN GAY & LESBIAN STUDIES -- A SAMPLING" which
>appeared in a sidebar.

>THE CONTESTED CLOSET
>   edited by Larry Gross,  Univ of Minnesota Press (1993)
Our very own FLG@FLASC.UPENN.EDU! :-) Looking forward to it, Larry...

-
RON BUCKMIRE
Association to Promote the Apotheosis of Mariah Carey
54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: A.D.A. against HOMOSEXUALS?
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:20:54 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

"MSUVX2::CONLEY" <CONLEY%MSUVX2.decnet@memstvx1.memst.edu> writes:

>	 Now, to my reason for posting.  The article, found in the
>	business section, entitled "Educate, be aware, adivses
>	manager", (and I quote) says:

>		"Congress specifically excluded a list of
>		 people or conditions from coverage; they
>		 include current illegal drug users,
>	         homosexuals, and compulsive gamblers."
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, this is in the text of the Americans With Disabilities Act. It was
a rider put in by homophobic Rep William Dannemeyer and Sen Jesse Helms.
You can still be gay and get protection if you are disabled. The rider just
says that you can not claim homosexuality, bisexuality or transgenderism as
a disability with regards to the Act.

-
RON BUCKMIRE
Association to Promote the Apotheosis of Mariah Carey
54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 12:22:41 -0700
Subject: rape
From: An Anonymous Sender

Locke says (i think it's locke, it's was an anonymous sender with
the Rebecca West quote at the end)

RAPE IS NOT SEX

I have believed this compleatly until recently. I was in a rap group
discussing violence, and rape. I stated that rape was not about sex, but
power. Another person said to counter, that the reason rape is so
traumatic, is because it is about sex. Sex which is supposed to be
loving, and sharing. rape is not those things. it is sex AND the power
that comes with it. The reason it's able to be so hurtful, is because the
rapist is trying to usurp the power of the person they are raping by
violating the most intimate part of their victims life. yech!
I guess maybe a more accurate statement is:
rape is not romantic sex.

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 29 July 92 14:40:41 CST
From: LLRLF%UTXDP.BITNET@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Olympic games

If any of our Gaynetters would verify the Greg Louganis story about
him being "coerced" off the Olympic diving team because he "came out"
I would certainly appreciate it.  I've got a big"crush" on Greg and
would certainly welcome any news of him I can get my hands on.  I heard
that the reason he wasn't on the diving team was that after the 1988
Seoul Olympics, he retired from diving to concentrate on his acting and
dancing careers.  I would also like to thank Mike for giving us the
run-down on tonight's Olympic competitions. Does anyone know for a
fact that Pablo Morales is gay?

Richard Foster
UT-Austin

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: What Is QueerNet.Org?
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:43:57 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

Randall C Gellens <0005000102@mcimail.com> writes:

>I've seen postings in some digests from people with a QueerNet.Org address.
>Is this a net address for a gay organization such as Queer Nation?

QN@QueerNet.Org is an alias for the new address of the Queer Nation mailing
 list.
--
RON BUCKMIRE
Association to Promote the Apotheosis of Mariah Carey
54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Countries Which Permit Same-Gender Marriage
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:02:54 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

Mike! <mike.w.miller.40@nd.edu> writes:

>I'm not sure if anyone ever answered this question, but the two countries
>which permit same-gender marriages are Denmark and Norway.  In both, one of
>the people getting married must be a citizen of the country.  In Denmark,
>same-gender couples still cannot adopt (or at least couldn't as of about
>two years ago) but in Norway I believe they have the full suite of benefits
>accorded mixed-gender couples.
Are you sure about Norway? My email correspondent had told me that they
are pretty sure they will get same-gender marriage there very soon, but that
it hasn't been put into law, yet, mostly for political/procedural reasons...

Your information on Denmark is identical to what I have..

-
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The Rodney King jury has re-examined the Zapruder footage and has decided
that JFK's injuries were self-inflicted.'' -- joke in the Village Voice.

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:10:35 EDT
From: THOMASL@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU
Subject:      survey for class

Hi,
   the following post is a survey i need to distribute for a research paper I
am working on for one of my classes.  I figured this would be a good way to
collect a large sampling.  The paper is on role playing(i.e.butch/fem) in same
sex couples.  If people could take the time to fill it out and send it back to
me directly at THOMASL@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU.  All replies will be kept confident
ial.  All headers,addresses, or anything which could identify someone will be
removed immediately.  If anyone has any other comments about the survey, please
reply seperately and I will try to resond.  However this survey is only for an
assigned paper.  It is not intended to inply anything or insult anyone. In fact
I'm hoping it will dispell a few myths that have been prevelant in the class.
   Thanks for taking the time to help out.  I will post the overall results of
the entire survey(not just stuff from the net) if people are interested.


Age                        Sex
Sexual Orientation (gay or bisexual)
Region of the country

Describe where you live(city/suberb/country;liberal/conservative)

Level of education/major(if appropriate)
How long have you been out?
Were you ever in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex?
Are you or have you been in a same sex relationship?
Is there a difference in your "role" in a same sex relationship than a relation
ship with a member of the opposite sex?


Please answer the following questions in relation to same sex couples. If your
editor allows it, please just put an x in the appropriate column. If not,please
just either respond immediately below or with the number to the question and
use y=you, p=your partner, b=both, n=neither.  If you are currently in a rela-

tionship, please answer in regards to that.  If you are not, please answer in
terms of what you think is your typical relationship.

                                               you     your    both   neither
                                                      partner

1. Who provides most financial support?
2. Who does most of the cleaning?
3. Who does most of the cooking?
4. If there are children, who is primary
   caretaker?
   Are they the "biological" parent?
5. Who makes the major decisions?
6. Does anyone have "veto" power?
7. Do either of you work in traditionally
   male feilds(ex engineering,constuction,etc.)
8. Do either of you work in traditionally
   female feilds( ex teacher, secretary, ect)
9. Would you describe either of you as
   masculine or butch?
10.would you describe either of you as feminine?
11.Who pays the bills?
12. Who takes care of the car?
13. Who does the "manual" labor?
14. Who initiates sex?
15. Who decides if you have sex?
16. Whose career is more important?
17. Are either of you into sports?
18. Who takes care of the house/yard repairs?
19. Who does the grocery shoping?
20. If you own/rent whose name is the morgage/
    lease in?
21. Whose name is the car in?
22. Who is more assertive/agressive?
23. Who is more emotionally supportive?
24. Are either of you into "SM"?
25. Do you think there are gender roles
    in your same sex relationships?
26. Who is older?


Thanks again for taking the time to answer this.

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: COPYRIGHT ISSUES [Was  Re: News: Metzenbaum/BSA]
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:16:31 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

An Anonymous Sender writes:

>UPn  07/29 0023  Metzenbaum introduces bill to overturn military gay...

>Metzenbaum introduces bill to overturn military gay ban
> By CHARLES DOE
>   WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Sen. Howard M. Metzenbaum, D.-Ohio, has offered
>legislation to overturn the Pentagon's ban on homosexuals in the U.S. armed
>forces.

>UPne 07/28 1905  Gay Eagle Scout files suit against Boy Scouts

>   FREEHOLD, N.J. (UPI) -- An Eagle Scout will file suit Wednesday charging the
>Boy Scouts of America and a New Jersey chapter with discrimination for
 expelling
>him because he is gay.

Umm,  I don't want to seem a party-pooper because I love getting these news
articles, but I have some questions about their legality of them appearing on
Gaynet. Aren't UPI articles copyrighted? Couldn't Gaynet get into trouble for
rebroadcasting them without permission? Or is it just the "Anonymous Sender"
who is liable? Whenever I post something from ClariNet, I actually get
permission from Clarinet to do so.

I just don't want to see Gaynet or the "Anonymous Sender" get into trouble!
I think it would be cool if we have fouind a way to get UPI news articles on
gay issues into Gaynet without fear of reprisal...

-
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The Rodney King jury has re-examined the Zapruder footage and has decided
that JFK's injuries were self-inflicted.'' -- joke in the Village Voice.

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rpi.mail.gaynet
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: olympics
Distribution: local
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:23:56 GMT
Apparently-To: rpi-mail-gaynet

An Anonymous Sender writes:

>I was told by a friend that Greg Lugainis(sp?) was "coerced" off the
>olympic diving team because he came out.  Does anyone know if thats true?
I doubt it, since Greg Louganis has been OUTed, but has never come out, as
far as I know.

>Ron:  Mel is definately toooo fundie for me, but my, my he certainly is fun
>to look at.   :)
He's okay, I guess. I never thought he was anything fantastic. For those Kevin
Costner fans out there I heard disturbing news today. The Bush-Quayle campaign
had planned no using him as a celebrity spokesperson (which he agreed to!) but
they eventually went with Bush speaking directly to the camera. $5 million
dollars worth of TV ads will be airing between now and the RNC Convention
August 15. He has an extra $7 million in primary election funds that he
must spend before he's nominated officially. They will air mainly in the
closely-contested important-electorally states of Ohio, Illinois Michigan
and Pennsylvania.


-
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The Rodney King jury has re-examined the Zapruder footage and has decided
that JFK's injuries were self-inflicted.'' -- joke in the Village Voice.

------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:36:27 EDT
From: "AAKL000@CATCC.bitnet  Kevin S. Lowery Catonsville"
 <AAKL%CATCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: SIG FILES INFINITUM

It was not my intention to split the "community" of this net down the
middle between men and women.  Further clarification only seemed to
muttle things on both ends.  You all may hash out this one on the net if
you want to.  I don't care.  You may take whatever meaning for the word
FISH you want.  I don't care.  Just don't expect me to post in response
anymore to this subject.  I just don't have the energy or desire to
pursue it.

________________________________________________________________________
\ think  /  Kevin S. Lowery            |
 \ pink /   Catonsville Com. College   |
  \    /    800 South Rolling Road     | Go FISH!
   \  /     Catonsville, MD 21228      |
    \/      AAKL000@CATCC.BITNET       |
                                       |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:40:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Republicans and being gay

Excerpts from internet.gaynet: 29-Jul-92 Re: Lt. Tracy Thorne Randall C
Gellens@mcimai (1754)

> (I do admit to feeling that it is a bit odd for gays to whine about being
> discriminated against by the Republican party (along with the pro-choicers)
> since that party has made it quite plain that they do not welcome gays,
> lesbians, or pro-choice people.  Sort of like a Black person objecting to
> the KKK not hiring him.  In my opinion, people should work for candidates
> who support them, not candidates who hate or aid people who hate.)


It is not the party that has made it clear, but the leadership of the
party.  They are definitely not the same thing.  Some of us gay
republicans are really pissed off at the 'right-wing' stance the party
is taking, since it has nothing to do with being republican.  The KKK
was formed to promote white power and racism.  THe party was formed to
promote the ideas of small central gov't, little legislation, etc.
They're apples and oranges.  When I promote Republican ideals, I'm not
promoting George Bush (who was a liberal pro-choicer before he was
Reaganized).  The extreme rightness of the party is mainly in response
to the overwhelming number of liberal Perot and Clinton supporters.
They thought it too late to get the liberals behind them, so they
decided to shore up the vote with the conservatives (especially since
Buchanan ws fueling the whole process).  Remember that there are
conservative democrats out there (Bob Casey of PA).  People have
forgotten party ideals in favor of the candidates.  If you look at the
democratic platform carefully, it is distinctly republican in flavor,
and if more lesbigay people would look at the founding ideas of the
republican party, I think they would be shocked at how much more
potentially pro-gay than the democratic it really is.
I'm sure that the fired gay republican ultimately cared more for the
other ideals of the party than the issue of gay rights.  Gay rights is
only one issue, and it is a mistake to vote for a candidate solely on
one issue.  Even a lot of the pro-lifers aren't totally behind bush,
because they see the declining economy as more important than the
abortion issue (and I got this from the Christian Broadcasting Network
news program!!).

so vote for your ideals, not your candidates

michael j pastor iii
a clinton republican
guest on davids account

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:55:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: living a lie

Excerpts from internet.gaynet: 29-Jul-92 living a lie
COULPETG@law.mail.cornel (2095)

Unfortunately in his speaking Thorne used a metaphor that made me
cringe.  He spoke of those who CHOOSE to remain closeted as
"living a lie."  I understand that for Thorne being closeted may
be living a lie, and that he may not have been meaning to
disparage other closeted lesbians, gays, or bisexuals.  But I for
one object to the comment when it is applied to those who are
aware of and have accepted their non-heterosexual orientation and
yet knowingly choose not to be out about it.

There are very real reasons for remaining closeted.  There is
also a great deal of doublespeak in the word "privacy" when
applied to sexual orientation.  People on the one hand say what
goes on in our boudoirs is none of anyone else's business, but on
the other hand if it involves those of the same sex then you
better make it known.  The two are not totally incompatible, but
for the most part the boundaries are not defined in the context
in which the term is used.

*************************
I think you are misinterpreting the meaning of the phrases here.  Living
a lie and telling a lie is not the same thing. You are putting a
connotation of malice to it.  For survivals (ie career) sake, these
people are closeted (to what extent varies per person).  He isnt making
a judgement on the person, just the situation.  The reasons for telling
a lie may also be altruistic (like telling an eldery grandparent that
she has terminal cancer, when it is better for her not to know...a
situation close to my own heart).  Regardless of the reasons of the
closetedness, it is still a lie.  You are also putting connotations to
the word 'out', which means about twenty different things.  They are all
types and stages of being out.  Out to yourself, out to other gay people
(ie, having relationships) out to good friends, out to casual
acquantances, out to your family, out to strangers, out to the general
public, out the greater public (ie celebrity status).  One of the
biggest problems I have when dealing with people just coming 'out' is
their own misinterpretation of what it is to be 'out'.  They think they
have to tell everyone all at the same time, regardless of what
importance that person holds in their life.  They don't see it as a
gradual process, a slow process, or a staged process.  They either think
you are closeted and consequently don't even have sex with the same sex,
or that you are out.  No in between.

You are also equating apples and oranges with "nobody's business" and
"making it known" about being gay.  Nobody's business refers to
legislation and laws and moral judgement on how people love each other.
"making it known" refers to the ability to talk about important things
in your life openly without having to self-censor yourself.  The two
have nothing to do with each other, so they are not in direct
contradiction.


michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:00:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: olympics

I was told by a friend that Greg Lugainis(sp?) was "coerced" off the
olympic diving team because he came out.  Does anyone know if thats true?
It may even be old news, but I'm not always up an these things.
Ron:  Mel is definately toooo fundie for me, but my, my he certainly is fun
to look at.   :)

                    LOCKE

amongst divers and other swimming athletes, it is quite known that he is
gay (just like it is amongst hollywood celebrities who is and isnt).  On
another note, Greg has never publicly (celibrity styled) come out.  He
avoids the question.  Greg said at the end of the last olympics that
those would be his last.  He'd been diving for over 16 years.  It has
nothing to do with his orientation.  Half the team USA wouldn't be there
if they coereced gay members to quit.


michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:37:23 -0800
From: b_blumberg@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)
Subject: GAO Report on the Costs of the DOD Ban on Homosexuality

Last month, I posted the address and phone number of the GAO
with instructions on how to order their report on how much
the Department of Defense spends to maintain the military
ban on lesbians and gays.

I finally got my copy in the mail yesterday.  The first thing
I noticed was that it referred to a statistical supplement which
one must order separately.  The supplement is free, but if you've
called or written to the GAO requesting their report, you may
want to consider contacting them again to request the statistical
supplment.

GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE
Information Handling and Support Facility
Document Handling and Information
Service Component
Box 6015
Gaithersburg, MD   20877
Telephone:  (202) 275-6241

NSIAD-92-98  -- Report
NSIAD-92-98S -- Statistical Supplement

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU