From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: equality of opportunity  (was: Re: State Income Tax)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 00:54:08 GMT

In <1993Jan19.043548.2471@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In<C12noL.2GMq@austin.ibm.com>, johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>>In <1993Jan17.211147.21480@rpp386>, jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>> |> Vouchers will INCREASE equality of oppportunity by increasing the
>> |> opportunity of poor people to attempt private schools.  If before
>> |> vouchers 10% of the population could afford private schools, and
>> |> after vouchers 20% of the population can afford private schools, I'd
>> |> say we have greatly increased "equality of opportunity."
 
>> But there already IS equality of opportunity.  If you want your child to 
>> go to Sidwell Friends, you are free to plunk down $10,000 just like Bill
>> Clinton did.  You say you don't have $10,000?  That's life.  Rich people
>> will ALWAYS be able to buy things that poor people can't afford, be it
>> Porsches, caviar, or expensive private educations.

>	Would you want you child to attend DC public schools? 

No, but that has to do with safety, which is mostly related to the WOD.

>> |> No, the right wingers what equality of opportunity only and the left
>> |> wingers want equality of outcome only.  A right winger says that if you
>> |> have the opportunity to be <X>, it is up to you to take advantage of
>> |> that opportunity.  A left winger says that if you aren't <X>, it is
>> |> up to "society" to make you <X>.

>> But set <X> = "educated at a private school".  This right-winger now thinks
>> that society should give you <X>.

>> |>                                          We've realized that the public
>> |> school system is deficient, and we want the poor to have the same chance
>> |> to attend good schools as the rich.

>> But I claim that a big reason that private schools are "good" is *because*
>> they don't have to accept all comers.

>	Let's look at Midwestern Rural public schools. Low Dropout rates,
>Higher than average SAT scores, and these are composed of a lot of farmers
>kids, and middle class workers children.

Ooh.  Higher than average, huh?  Someone has to be.

>	The Problems in Urban Schools are twofold, first, the families ( if you
>can call them that ) are often single parent with little education and, 
>low or no income. How is a child from such an environment going to comprehend
>why it is important to get an education, when he/she doesn't even know anyone
>with an education? So from that perspective, "school is not important, because
>my mother didn't finish"

It's the other way around.  It's "school is not important, because it
won't get me anywhere."

>	The Quality of education in these urban public schools is so pathetic
>to begin with. Even if all of the drugs and guns were magically removed, there
>would still need to be MASSIVE housecleaning ( Firings! ) of teachers, and
>administrative staff.

>My Wife went to Houston ISD schools, and I was appalled at what they didn't
>learn in Highschool. 

>(WARNING this may offend sensitive liberals)
>A Major problem was introduced to publice schools when Minority quotas, and
>minority teacher to minority student rations began to rise. There has long been
>a shortage of Qualified Minority teachers in education. When the descision was
>made to increase the number of minority teachers in public schools, there was
>less concern for ability and qualifications, than for increasing the numbers of
>minority teachers.

Evidence?

>So what we now have is a classic case of the Blind leading the Blind( Ignorant
>leading the Ignorant ). I actually had a teacher say to me "I acks you a
>question", Now This pathetic aberation of english, came from a "TEACHER??".

To me it sounds like bad pronunciation, not bad grammar.

>This Multi-Cultural BS, will lead the socio-economically disadvantage into
>furthur decline if it continues to advocate such things as acceptable
>ethnic-english dialects under the guise of multi-culturalism.

Why?  How?

>My Mother is an immigrant to this country, and my fathers parents were
>immigrants to this country. 

>My wife and my son are considered to be members of an ethnic minority, so I
>feel I have the right to criticize the multi-cultural movement.

>Why do Koreans, Vietnamese, and Chinese not complain, and push for affirmative
>action??? Perhaps for the same reason that other ethnic groups such as Irish,
>German, and Slavic, did not do so in the late 1800's-early 1900's. They decided
>that they wanted to enter an already existant society, and be assimilated.

Probably because they weren't brought here as slaves, against their will.
And then had a system of apartheid set up for a couple of hundred years.

>Face it, We Should not change our society and culture to please less than 30%
>of the population ( as if that 30% all want the same changes ). Rather, we
>should work towards making cultural assimilation easier, by dissallowing
>functional illiterates to teach children in public schools.

What "society and culture" are we changing?  In what way?

>There are many Highly qualified professionals that are considered part of
>various ethnic minorities. Why do they leave the old homogenous minority
>communities for ethnically heterogeneous communities??????

>For those who still believe that minorities need minority teachers, why can't
>we get the successful minorities to go back to the old neighborhood schools to
>teach, rather than accepting underqualified teachers who can't find jobs in
>suburban schools???

Maybe they don't want to?  Maybe they can get more money elsewhere?
Maybe they don't want to teach in places where the schools are too poor
to afford textbooks, where there are holes in the ceiling, and where the
teachers buy supplies out of their own pockets?

>I believe in Equal Oppertunity. Let's Create equal oppertunity, not the smoke 
>and mirrors illusion of it that we have today.

>There is no reason why a nation than can put a man on the moon, assemble
>individual molecules, or bomb it's enemies into the stone age in 30 days, can't
>provide a descent education for all of it's population.

>I have often wondered if some of todays minority leaders, were not assisted
>into power by thier enemies in governement. By placing incompetant minority 
>leaders in positions of leadership, those in power need not fear competition
>from those misguided minority groups.

I sometimes wonder if some of today's critics of multi-culturalism have
ever read a newspaper, or whether they get all their information from
Rush Limbaugh.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 
niepornt@phoenix.    |  time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
   princeton.edu     |      -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
Baltimore Orioles 93 |
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