From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Turkish minority in Greece ????
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:02:54 GMT

vh@cs.columbia.edu (Vasileios Hatzivassiloglou) writes:

>I never met one muslim 
>student from Thrace (while I met many ethnic Greeks from the same area)
>and I can see only two reasons for that : either all members of the
>minority are stupid/indifferent to higher studies (which I can't believe),
>or they were discouraged from enrolling in the University. 

 Most of them enroll to the Univs. of Thessaloniki, Thrace, or they go to
 Turkey (after all, Constantinoupolis is very close).  Patra is too far ...
 Your conclusion that "they are discouraged from enrolling in the University"
 is ridiculous. Also, they are not "stupid or indifferent to higher studies"
 since many educated (doctors, lawyers) Turks have received their education
 in Greece.  You should not extrapolate so easily and make eroneous
 conclusions.

>As for the MP matter, I don't believe you disagree that the electoral
>law change was shameful for a democratic country; the people of the area
>are now deprived of their natural right to elect the person they prefer,
>no matter if we don't like their choice. The story of trying and
>convicting one of the minority MPs on ridiculous charges (for inciting
>political passions, while the respected leaders of both big parties
>do that daily on a far greater scale) is also a blow to the human rights
>record of Greece.

 You err, although you write noble things, by not examining the reality.
 I do not want to comment on the "electoral law change was shameful",
 because I personally believe that a full "apli analogiki" law is the
 best solution for Greece.  However, the law was not changed in order to
 take care of the specific demografics of this area, and you err by implying
 it.  Perhaps you could explain to me why before the "koutsogiorgas" law
 Turks were able to elect their representatives, but they won't be able
 to do the same thing now with an electoral law which is almost identical
 to the old one.

 Perhaps, someone should explain to you how "fanatisism" works. N.D. and
 PASOK had members of the Turkish minority in their parties, which have
 been isolated now.  Their followers have been blackmailed, threatened
 etc.  These are not propaganda, but facts that many Turks have stated.
 You are NAIVE if you believe that the Turkish minority has voted for the
 fanatics (e.g., Sadik) because the human rights record is not perfect.
 And if you consider "ridiculous charge" the fact that Mr. Sadik has 
 repeatedly said that Ozal is his prime minister, then "kala krasia."

>Finally, for the name matter. It may be true that the muslims in Thrace
>are not ethnically Turks, and it may be true that they felt non-Turks
>at the start of the century; however, they now feel Turks (or they
>wouldn't elect and support Sadik, for example)

 Could you explain to me why they now feel Turks, and they didn't did so
 few years ago?  And why do you thing that all of them support Sadik?
 Do you have any numbers to prove your point?


>If instead Greece chose to adopt a policy of inclusion,
>then I believe they would realize that they can be better off in a
>Greece that respects them than in the present Turkey.

 Policy of inclusion?  How are they "excluded" now?  Present facts to
 support your views, not abstract nonsense. Are there any laws that prevent
 them from being equal to the rest of Greeks?  Or you mean that we should 
 have special programs for them, since they are a minority?

 Panos Tamamidis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek