HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Spouses as partners
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:52:20 GMT

In article <1dejo4INNt4k@morrow.stanford.edu>, AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
> In article <1992Nov06.001037.20078@news.mentorg.com>,
> >
> >Another side question, how many folks out there climb with
> >their spouses?
> 
> I don't do this but from what I've seen of others the results are
> spotty at best.  At least one divorce I know of resulted.  If you
> can manage without competing or one of expecting too much from the
> other that's OK.  Your age may be in your favor as maturity should
> mitigate some of the clashes.

I agree with Marc that the big problem with climbing with one's spouse
is competition and expectation, and that maturity (emotional, not 
chronological) helps.  I am fairly immature and competitive (well, it's
true!) and had a difficult time climbing with Britt until (1) I improved
to within a few grades of his ability, and (2) I started leading and thus
could feel I was taking, if not equal responsibility, at least some
of the responsibility of the climb.

When he was leading 5.10d and I was barely following 5.7 we would get
into a lot of bad feelings while climbing, mostly because I felt 
depressed and discouraged, and didn't like being told what to do all the
time.  He had knee surgery last winter, while I joined a rock gym with a 
(female) friend of similar ability to mine -- by the beginning of the
climbing season, I was leading (gym) 5.10a and psyched to start leading
real climbs.  Now, even though he can still climb harder routes than I
can, and he leads the harder pitches, I feel much more self-assured,
and am able to take his criticism of my climbing (such as badly placed
pro) a little better.

Now, my husband is my favorite climbing partner!

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
From: sidel+@pitt.edu (Philip S Sidel)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Decking on the 1st Pitch of Touch and Go
Keywords: terminology, lingo, thread
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:45:38 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


 (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>.... there is a very
>good thread for a runner just before you commit to the traverse.  If
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   
>you cannot find the thread, you have been spending too much time in the
>climbing gym staring at big bolts, get out and get on real rock!

What is a "thread for a runner?"  I never heard the term. I can make a
guess: (a chink, crack, or opening between two rocks or sides of a 
crack that are wedged together at the front, so you can "thread" your
runner through the chink, then bring the ends around to the front,
tie them together with appropriate knot, attach a biner, and clip in),
but it is only a guess.  Please let me know the correct definition.

I am posting instead of E-mail on the egocentric assumption that if
I don't know the term, there may be others who never heard it either.

					Phil Sidel
					sidel@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:20:14 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa

AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Say, does anyone still understand about: a) nuts in opposition, b)
>two nuts on one perlon sling to create a primitive camming device,
>c) tying off the shaft of a rigid Friend (hmm sounds racy!), d)
>other devious techniques?

Two nuts in opposition get all cracked up ;-).

This stuff was pretty standard stuff 10+ years ago.  You might look in
the old Summit Mag as it always had useful tips like this.  Another source
is Off-Belay (long since gone).  In a nut shell this is how they work.


/     /------------\
\     |  ________  |     \
 /-------------- ------   /
 \\            //      \  \
  \\          //        \ /
  / \        //          \\
 /   \------//------------\\
 \      | |      \---/      \
 /      | |                 /
 \      | |                 \
 /      | |                 /
	| |                 \

 The right gets pulled up while the left nut gets pulled down.

 Also tieing off your friends is easy and is fairly standard. Just tie
 a sling into the trigger slot in the shaft of the friend.  For more
 information you check out alt.sex.bondage ;-).

 For large cracks you can always used a 2x4 as a wedge to cam against.

 Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
From: bowen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Fall Factor
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:46:19 GMT
Distribution: rec.climbing
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

Now that mail from mira is working I thought you might like to see this
guys sig...

In article <83556@ut-emx.uucp> onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew) writes:
>+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
>|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
>|                                  | 
>|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
>|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
>+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound 

Devon
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: srclark@happy.colorado.edu
Subject: RElearning to lead
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 5 Nov 92 11:49:02 MDT



Hi,

I had been climbing for a few months when I took my second lead fall in 
September. I was trying to do my first 5.8 lead on a route (Place in the Sun,
Garden of the Gods) that was too runout. I caught my foot on something near
the end of the fall when I was going pretty fast and broke my ankle.

My problem is that since I've started climbing again I've found I've lost
a *lot* of confidence. I ended up backing off the lead on a route that I
previously had wired. I really didn't expect to have psych problems. I
expected to just pick up where I left off.

Any suggestions on how to get back on the lead horse? I've joined the local
climbing gym and think that once I get my lead card and practice 'sterile'
leads this might help.

Thanks,

Steve
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Resoling boots
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov6.195901.15582
Organization: University of Washington

jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.020707.11060@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au> Danny@sct.gu.edu.au (Danny James) writes:
>>Hi 
>>
>>I am thinking of resoling my boots myself
>>
>>1) has anyone tried this and was it a good/bad experience
>>
>>2) are there any resoling kits to avoid
>>
>>3) should i just spend (what more money) the extra and get a 
>>   possibly "dodgey" professional to do it

>As someone who just asked a similar question (where were you?), I'll
>answer by saying the majority suggest that if you want a good job, get
>a (good) professional to do it (there are many in the us, I don't
>know about AU).  There is the contingent that says go for it, though.

>I got mine done by a local professional and was very pleased.  I think
>the line is: if you like your shoes, get the pro.

Have you ever tried resoling your own shoes?  It's really very simple so
long as your shoes have a midsole.  I've had my shoes resoled both ways (I
only got my lasers professionally resoled because of their slipper-like
sole) and felt my job was quite good, and about $15 cheaper.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: stewartm@crchh286.BNR.CA (Stewart Maxwell)
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Reply-To: stewartm@crchh286.BNR.CA (Stewart Maxwell)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 23:52:01 GMT

The only local you are guaranteed to see on any given weekend
at Quartz Mountain, OK is 50(?)-something Jane Ritchie.  Her
son, Mike, got her into climbing a few couple of years ago, and
she's since made a trip to the Bugaboos.  She climbs 5.10+.

Speaking of Quartz, Bob Kamps was through there a couple of weeks
ago.  Now there's an old fart.  Many of his contemporaries are
still climbing, like TM Herbert and Chuck Pratt.  I met a 50+
woman in Jackson, WY last winter who climbs with that crowd 
regularly in JTree and the Valley.  I'll leave it to someone else
to ask how old ENM is.

Look for a back issue of CLIMBING from a couple of years ago with
a story about the South Dakota Needles/Mt. Rushmore.  There were
a couple of brothers who spent the summers climbing there after
they retired from farming in Iowa.  These guys were in their late
sixties at the time and leading 5.11 only a couple of summers 
after they started climbing.

On climbing with spouse:

My wife is my favorite partner.  If we don't get along when we are
climbing, the chances are we wouldn't get along doing anything else,
either.

So long BillW, and thanks for all the stories,

Stu
(lurking no more)
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:19:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Help in chosing shoes.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing


> >since you can buy a resoling kit?  I will be climbing limestone bluffs
> >with quite a few cracks, pockets and overhangs.
> >
> 
>  For Limestone you just can't beat a pair of slippers such as the
>  Boreal Lasers.  These are also quite cheap, I think Feathered Friends
>  was selling them for $80.
> 
>  These will go a long time without a resole.
> 
>                Jim Bowers
> 
I agree that the Lasers are a great shoe, especially for limestone pockets.
In fact they are my favorite shoe for pockets, walls, bouldering, and very
overhanging face climbing.  However, this guy is a beginner and mentions
crack climbs.  I think both of those facts should rule out the Lasers.  They
are not ideal for anything but thin cracks and would be down right painful
in hand cracks and wider.

As a beginner I think you should have a stiffer shoe with more rubber on it.
I could imagine a beginner shredding a pair of Lasers in a month.

Since nobody mentioned Sportiva yet, I will.  You might like the Mega.

Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:09:23 GMT

ufessex@mcl.ucsb.edu (Fabian E. Schonholz) writes:

>Law suits is the only thing I hear when it comes down to selling gear or 

Didn't you know that lawsuits are a popular American pastime. As climbers,
we pay a certain price (high risk) for our minimal rewards (getting to the
top, adrenaline rush, etc.) That makes our numbers small by comparison to
the rest of the population. Lawsuits, on the other hand, have high rewards
for minimal risk. And, American law stipulates that the plaintiff of the
lawsuit actually bears no risk whatsoever, since lawyers fees are only by
contingency (if you win), and there is ZERO cost to losing with an
obviously insane lawsuit (such as any suit that a climber might file
against a property owner, manufacturer, etc.)

>it should be understood that you climb at your own risk, and if you do not
>seek propper instruction before undertaking, or overtaking, climbing, then
>you are an idiot, or you have steal balls, but I would go for the first one.
>America has gotten greedy, and it is collapsing under its own waigth, maybe

The only suit I'm aware of is the turd who sued Chouinard because he fell
from his harness or something. So now, everything from quickdraws to
Tubers to ropes and helmets comes with a tag or sticker that says "If you
use this you may die." Well, fine, but I rip all of them off as soon as
possible, and every time I see one I'm reminded that Chouinard was
essentially removed from the hardware biz by some twit who is probably now
off in the Alps checking the stock pages of The Herald Tribune.

Its a symptom of the underlying rapaciousness of lawyers in general and
our toleration of them in particular that has every risky endeavour in
America paying phenomenal insurance premiums to protect against lawsuits.
Of course it doesn't make sense to anyone, and I guess it didn't occur to
the jury of the Chouinard case to ask "What was the jerk doing so far
above the ground before his harness came undone?" The conclusion is worse
than the accident: American jurors look as these cases as one more lottery
game where they might be the next winner. "Jeepers. A million dollars....!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: nancy@wilbur.coyote.trw.com (Nancy Jensen)
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:05:43 GMT

janem@smills.mentorg.com (Jane Merrow) writes:


>Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
>old climbers out there?

A friend celebrated her 60th birthday by climbing the regular
route (5.9) on Fairview Dome (Tuolumne Mdws, Calif., USA)
in five hours.
From: marcus@illusion.chi.il.us (Marcus Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:16:53 GMT
Reply-To: marcus@illusion.UUCP (Marcus Hall)
Organization: Magic Numbers Software, Bloomingdale, IL

In article <1992Nov5.114902.1@happy.colorado.edu> srclark@happy.colorado.edu writes:
>I had been climbing for a few months when I took my second lead fall in 
>September. ... and broke my ankle.

>... I've lost a *lot* of confidence.  ...  I really didn't expect to have
>psych problems. I expected to just pick up where I left off.

>Any suggestions on how to get back on the lead horse?

Well, two years ago, I took a fall and broke my ankle also.  I'm impressed
that you're back leading after just two months!  After two months, I was
just out of the cast, and it was hard enough just to do 5.7 on top rope.
I usually climb at Devil's Lake where top ropes are common, and that made
it all too easy to back away from leading and just climb top roped.  This
year, however, I decided that I *had* to get back into leading.  I've
lead harder climbs now than I had before, but I didn't feel nearly so bold
on the leads.

I think that it gets better the more you do, so just hang in there and don't
get too spooked.  Don't push yourself too much, give yourself time to get
back into trusting yourself.  Keep at it, though, because if you stop leading
for a longish time, it's alot harder to get back into it.

marcus hall
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: Light and warm sythetic bag: PARADOX?
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:19:44 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


Gen M. Kanai (Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
|> 
|> : I am considering the "Gold-Eck" bags sold by Mountain Tools, but I have
|> : no idea how good they are.  Does anyone on the net have any experience
|> : or heard second or even third hand info on these bags?

I bought one of these bags from Mountain Tools a couple of years ago and have
been very happy with mine.  It isn't magic though.  I have never seen a
synthetic bag that will truly compete with down on a compressability/lightness
issue.  But if you think synthetic is the way to go then I can recommend
these bags.  The -6 degree bag has kept me warm winter camping in the Sierras
and seems to be constructed very nicely.

-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:51:05 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>In article <eric.721520600@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
>|> 
>|> I doubt that many climbers or landowners have a clue as to what the chance
>|> of a landowner being found liable would actually be, and I suspect that it
>|> is vanishingly small.  I would encourage the climbing mags to educate climbers

I doubt most landowners want climbers running around on their land,
regardless of the liability issue.  Liability concerns provide a convenient,
polite excuse for saying, "Get the f__k off of my land, you worthless
climbing scum."

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: No More Wright-Ups?
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:50:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: Msu.00963854.9BD78700
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Montana State University


>This is ludicrous; Kor's trips to the valley did not prove that "Colorado
>climbers reigned supreme," they proved that Kor reigned supreme.  Not to 
>mention that although Kor's valley exploits were notable, "reign supreme" is
>probably a bit of an overstatement considering that there were many other
>climbers in the valley in the 60's who also accomplished notable things.
>

  This is the first thing I thought too when I saw the statement about
  "Colorado climbers reigned supreme"...true enough, it was Layton that
  was THE driving force of Colorado climbing in that era.
>The thing about Kor which impresses me more than anything else was not what he
>did in the valley, but the fact that he went everywhere and climbed everything
>with an incredible success rate and an inexhaustible supply of enthusiasm.
  
   No room for argument there;  he and a few others of that era considered
   the WORLD to be their climbing area.  They climbed with as much confidence
   on things in Europe, the Winds, Alaska, etc., as they did on their
   "local" crags.  
>
>Colorado has produced some of the best climbers this country has ever seen:
>John Gill (without peer in his era), Pat Ament, Charlie Fowler, Jeff Lowe,
>Roger Briggs, Jim Collins, John Harlin, Leonard Coyne, etc. (Apologies in 
>advance for omissions or wrongly-placed names... going from memory...)

    Ignoring fine shades of meaning (e.g. Charlie Fowler was born in
    West Viginia, I think), it does seem that Colorado has produced some
    of the most WELL ROUNDED climbers in the country -- people that
    do rock, ice, alpine, etc,. and all the variations (sport routes,
    cracks, granite, limestone, etc.) at a respectable level.  This
    could well be a function of the quality, quantity, and variety
    of stuff at your fingertips if you live there -- even if you're
    in Denver, within a one hour radius there's more than you can
    climb in a lifetime it seems.  Keep adding one hour driving time
    to the radius and pretty soon you have MOST of the Rocky Mtns. and
    the desert areas at your fingertips -- Devil's Tower, Canyonlands,
    Vedawoo, Fremont, Zion, etc..  No small wonder that Colorado
    turns out so much talent.


    Just my .02 worth.  What's NOT to love about climbing in Eldorado
    except for a few crowds?

    Jim Vivian
    Bozeman, MT
    "Nope, no climbing here guys..."
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:37:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.120954.1@happy.colorado.edu> srclark@happy.colorado.edu writes:
>Rainer Malzbender writes:
>
[...]
>>I had just gotten to that uncomfortable band atop pitch 1 (before I
>>knew you could do pitches 1 & 2 together) where I decided to just slap
>>on a hip belay since he had our only belay device. Bad move. He peeled
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^
>No shit! Multi-pitch with one belay-RAPPEL device??  
>
>>off about a third of the way up, and the rope proceeded to cut two thick
>>grooves into both of my hands. Fortunately the friction provided by my
>>searing tissue was enough to gently ease him to the ground with barely
>>a thud. (I should have mentioned that he was overweight at about 220 lbs.)
>>With blood dripping down my hands I soloed the rest of the climb ... no,
>>wait, that's not true -- I bailed off.
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>What did you do jump? You didn't have a rap device! Jesus, you're scary.
>
>Steve

Going to be a bad day when you get a few pitches up and, for whatever
reason, drop your all-important gear. Hmmm, no rap device - take your
choice, Steve. Sit down and wait for rescue or hypothermia, or jump.
While your pondering your dubious fate, I think I'll chose between
a variety of biner-rappel techniques, or, if its cold enough (and
I'm adequately bundled up), I'll body rappel.

I don't mean to rekindle the hip-belay/body rappel discussion that
ran through here recently, but really, this sort of blind thinking
needs comment. And my partners call _me_ a gear freak...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Between the idea                                                         
And the reality                                                           
Between the motion                                                        
And the act                                                               
Falls the Shadow                                                          
  --T.S. Eliot, The Hollow Men                                            
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Climbing Movies
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:39:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Nov10.233909.19920
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.

In article <30133@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig) writes:
>Where can I get some climbing movies?  Not the -how to- kind,
>the -adventure- kind.  Every climbing author talks about a movie
>being made.  Where can I find these -doccumentary- films?
>

There used to be an outfit called Gravity Sports Films, located in Utah, which
had a large selection of climbing films, including all the big ones. They used
to advertise in the climbing rags.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Decking on the 1st Pitch of Touch and Go
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:53:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: Msu.00963854.F7713C00
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

In article <lg0ithINNsr4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>For those of you that have lamented about decking on the 1st pitch
>of Touch and Go on Redgarden Wall in Eldorado Canyon, there is a very
>good thread for a runner just before you commit to the traverse.  If
>you cannot find the thread, you have been spending too much time in the
>climbing gym staring at big bolts, get out and get on real rock!
>
>Let's hear it for natural pro!

I think I failed to mention when I made that statement in the earlier
post:  the 5.12 climber in question decked trying to MAKE THE THREAD...
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 1992 14:45:51 -0500 
From: Michael Minhall Chang <mc7z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Comps. in Pittsburgh Area 

Just a few questions For you guys????


I've been climbing for about a year now and am interested in entering a
competition in or around the Pittsburgh area.  Do they do that sort of
thing in this city??  

I was also wondering if anyone has had experience in climbing in Hong
Kong.  I'll be there over the summer and was wondering if anyone has
been there.  I've seen the article in Rock and Ice about climbing there
but it was feeble.  
Also I was wondering if there are any cometitions there???????  



Thanks ALot

mike c.


Newsgroups: rec.climbing