HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wolffrnd@starburst.umd.edu (The Wolf Friend)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: "Final Exit for Cats"
Date: 4 Jan 1993 01:38:14 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu
Summary: Spoof on "Final Exit"
Keywords: book, humor, cats

I came across a new book in the humor section of a bookstore the other
day.  It's called "Final Exit for Cats; a feline suicide guide," by Michael
Viner.  Each page has a different picture and caption for ridiculous/funny
ways that cats can commit suicide.  My cat Sunpanther simply scoffed at it,
and although the new kitten enjoys tempting danger (like repeatedly shoving
its paw into the ferret cage or chasing after the dog), it isn't truly
interested either; but Mystic would probably be thinking seriously about
it if he had a brain. ;-)  Unfortunately poor Mystic possesses only a nerve 
knot, and spends his days staring at blank walls, throwing himself under
people's feet in a dark hall and then not moving even when kicked accidentally,
purring when his whiskers are pulled and fur tugged the wrong way, and 
genuinely enjoying being chewed on by the dog.  (Really)  He's also constantly
depressed and does everything in slow motion, that is when he's able to
get moving at all. ;-)  If he did ever decide to make that choice for
himself, I could have him stuffed and placed on display, and no one would
even be able to tell the difference... :-)

                          Kathleen (Wolffriend)

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: alto@pegasus.com (Andrea Ostensoe)
Subject: Christmas Survivors?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 19:58:01 GMT

Looks like most of us survived Christmas this year..now we brace for
New Years..for some of you (from past writings) this seems to be a
bad time..it has never bothered me..I ususally either party and get
drunk or just forget it and go to sleep..

Christmas was easier for me this year because I had company from out
of the country..and it was fun to show them around..be around new
people and I *do* enjoy little Killi..we roam the malls together..
picking out those who don't deserve to live for whatever obscure
reasons..and then push them down the escalators..(all fantasy of course;-)

And ..it *is* open season for little screaming spoiled kiddos all year!

Hope the rest of you found it as painless as possible..    


-- 
**************************************************************************
"I don't ask for much..just your heart on a silver platter;-)"
						-Kali
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Re: LIFE ROCKS!
Organization: The Eternal Order of Chaos 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:30:16 GMT


	Ah... we've talked of pitching ourselves in volcanos before...

	It is one of my favorite ways... but the lack of active volcanoes
	in Delaware have kept me intact til now.

	Personally, I _like_ the lava to hit inhabited areas... but then
	I'm an alt.destroy.the.earth-er too.  I think offering yourself
	up to a group that uses human sacifices to volcanoes defeats the
	purpose though... aren't the sacrifices supposed to be somewhat
	unwilling to die??? (Like I would have a clue...)

	I think hangliding into a volcano would be better than jumping in...
	you could drift for awhile and enjoy the fumes then pick a cherry
	red flow to land in...

	Or even more interesting... go scubadiving around an underwater 
	volcano (or vent)... enjoy the sensation of boiling water against
	your flesh during your last few moments while you watch the lava
	engulf the weights anchoring you to the flow...

	*moan* Makes me wish I was in Greenland or Hawaii now...

	             

				Psycho Kitten
				(testing the limits of passive suicide...) 
 
-- 

Angela M. Watson / awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu /       [.sig under] 
Psycho Kitten   / zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu    /       [construction]
From: freier@mail.physics.utah.edu (rodney james freier)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Christmas Survivors?
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:25:54 GMT
Organization: University of Utah - Physics Department

In article <C02orC.L81@news.udel.edu>, zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Marie Watson) writes:
|> [stuff deleted]
|> 
|> 	I always despise it when people start saying that sort of thing
|> (expect for the one friend since he actually lives by it).  Yes, I know that
|> the best rose gardens need large amounts of fertilizer... but I've more
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    It's kind of interesting... the mental gymnastics society goes thru
to get us to 'take shit'.  To us, fertilizer is waste.  To a flower, it is food. 
 The fact that the best rose gardens need large amounts of fertilizer
should lead us to believe that the best people can be obtained by giving them
large amounts of food and care.   BUT NO!  Society has to try to twist this
obvious truth!  This seems to be their reasoning:  If some non-human organism
benefits from that which we would find torturous, then obviously the torturous
is good for us.  (!!????!?!)  

|> thorns than those roses do. I certainly don't display my softer side where
|> just anyone can come along and crush it either...  
|> 
|> 	It is all so absurd... just excuses to convince people to continue
|> plodding along when all they really want is to sleep forever... 
|> 
|> 		Psycho Kitten
|> 		(preparing for a Snow White immitation)

Rod
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jprovo@Gnu.ai.mit.edu (The Wandering Pedestal of Angst)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Christmas comes but once a year
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:02:51 GMT
Organization: Russel Street UN*X and Caffeine
NNTP-Posting-Host: wombat.gnu.ai.mit.edu
X-method-of-the-day: crawl into a dirty oven with self-cleaning capacity. wait for the owner to come along to clean it.  Very Hot.

justin@hp750.ccs.uky.edu (Justin Sullivan) writes:
>Such a 'discovery' made me feel MUCH better.. I believe that if you just
>imagine green grass and blue skies, you will be happy (for the moment, at
>least). If EVERYONE imagines green grass and blue skies (and most people seem

"If you dream alone, it's just a dream.
 If you dream together, it's reality."
                  ---some Brasilian folk song

...but the problem is, people delude themselves [and allow themselves to be
continually duped] into thinking that a dream is just a dream, a thought is
just a thought.

So changing the consensual reality this way is hopeless -- you'd have to kill
off most of the population [...or induce suicide...hmmm...]... Me, I prefer my
own realities; I construct and discard more in the first five minutes of
consciousness a day than most dream of in their life time.

"so let it be written; so let it be done."

joe

...but it still doesn'y make the world a better place, take away hurt for those
who can't/won't do it themselves, or make suicide any less attractive...

-- 
Disclaimer: "I'm the only one foolish enough to claim these opinions as mine."
jprovo@gnu.ai.mit.edu                                       jzp@gene.ummed.edu
    Russell Street UN*X Consultations and Development     (NIC handle: JZP)
                            Rev. Dkr. Nick LaRG0, ASC
From: zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Marie Watson)
Subject: Re: Christmas Survivors?
Summary: Labeling pain... 
Organization: The Eternal Order of Chaos 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:45:11 GMT


	I have one friend who chooses to refer to his mistakes (the major
ones in his life) as "learning experiences"... by saying it was a learning
experience (no matter how expensive the lesson) at least you can pretend
that all the pain and wasted time served some purpose (even if you don't
take the 'lesson' to heart).

	He's tried to convince me to look at my last relationship this way
and always says, "You'll look back on it in 3 months and be glad you did
it [leave my SO]."  Yeah... if I'm alive in 3 months (he doesn't consider
suicide as a serious option because you can't do anything else after you've
offed yourself -- I think he'll be rather dismayed when he hears of mine
mainly because it eliminates the possiblity of something better coming along.)

	It would be so much easier to continue trudging along if I could
just look at all the things done to me as "learning experiences".  I
wish that I could believe that all this pain could be given some value...

	I always despise it when people start saying that sort of thing
(expect for the one friend since he actually lives by it).  Yes, I know that
the best rose gardens need large amounts of fertilizer... but I've more
thorns than those roses do. I certainly don't display my softer side where
just anyone can come along and crush it either...  

	It is all so absurd... just excuses to convince people to continue
plodding along when all they really want is to sleep forever... 


		Psycho Kitten
		(preparing for a Snow White immitation)



Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Survivor guilt (was Re: Christmas comes but once a year)
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:04:11 GMT

In what I say below, I am thinking of what I might call the "true"
suicide, as opposed to the person who threatens suicide as a sort of
high-level emotional blackmail.

In article <92361.082621U60703@uicvm.uic.edu> <U60703@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

(among much that I deleted) 

>Your statements about...duh...why?....are somewhat accurate....looking back
>now and remembering some of her statements I realize how we in the family
>didn't really HEAR what she was saying....or we heard but didn't really
>LISTEN....nobody wants to hear those kinds of things

This may well be true, since there is no family that listens perfectly
to all of its members all the time.  But it's important not to go from
this recognition of reality to accepting responsibility for someone
else's suicide.   To commit suicide, or not, is a decision we each make
on our own.  

>Your statement also seemed to me to minimize the severe pain/trauma a  whole
>family would go through..as if "it" would happen and they'd wonder why,duh...
>and then just carry on as  if it were just another little glitch in their day.

I don't think that people who truly feel their quality of life is
unacceptable, with no realistic hope of improvement, should be obligated
to drag out years or decades of pain, just so that their relatives won't
feel some grief.  I do think that we ought to do what we can to reassure
our survivors that they are not to blame, that our decision is about our
own life and not some interaction with them, and that there isn't
anything they did or didn't say or do that is the moving force in our
decision.

-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
"If you click on its capital, Ouagadougou, you'll hear its name
pronounced--in this instance, a most helpful feature."  
                                  --PC Magazine, 92/12/22, pg 352
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Marie Watson)
Subject: Re: I have nothing left.
Organization: The Eternal Order of Chaos 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:05:52 GMT

	I say go for Guiness... but then I drink for taste, not getting
wasted (although 4 Guiness are enough to relax my body whether my mind
wants it or not).

	Please remember how loosely people use the term 'friend' here
in the States... while the denotation of 'friend' is: * a person attached
to another by feelings of affection or personal regard, * a person who
gives assistance; patron; supporter; * a person who is on good terms with
another; a person who is not hostile (friend vs. foe),  the connotations
can be quite diverse.  While I do tend to use the term 'friend' rather
loosely in everyday conversation, I make clear distinctions in my mind about
who is a real friend, a casual friend, an assosicate, a cohort, an
aquantance, and just a convenience.  Real friends are hard to come by...
I usually have to know a person for several years before considering them
a true friend.  Of course, I've made exceptions before (time-wise)... but
currently I have no 'best friend' or anyone close to it. [Maybe if they
would quit offing themselves...]

	Oh %@#&!!! I'm getting hives again!!! and they were just finally
fading on my ankles... =P  My face better be back to normal by the 7th...
(I get to meet TBG's "wife"... I'd hate to look like a leper when I 
have lunch with them.)

	Just because someone is biologically/legally refered to as your
family doesn't mean there are any positive emotional ties between you.  I
know I couldn't care much less if my entire family died at this moment
(including my identical twin sister... even sharing the same genetic 
code doesn't make you family).  My sister did a similar thing to me
a few years ago (after I had moved out)... after 6 months she gave as
close to an apology as she ever has for her words (not that I cared
either way at that point).  

	Instead of reshuffling the deck, you could change the game you're
playing... or just build castles with them... or sit back and watch others
play for awhile...

	Personally, I think I might enjoy my death for a while before I
die (amazing what you can get away with when the 'authorities' think
you're dead....).

	Psycho Kitten
	(longing to at least get to all the old unanswered mail in my
	other account...)

	

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Marie Watson)
Subject: And so it starts again...
Organization: The Eternal Order of Chaos 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:50:34 GMT

	All the little kiddies are coming back...

	...well, a few of them anyway...

	(Check-in for the dorms is today with classes starting tomorrow)

	If I'm (un)lucky [don't know which applies yet], I might be taking
my 1-credit class minimum as a independant study in hist or anth.  Otherwise,
I'll try for a slot in the iceskating class (or some other meaningless 
Physical Ed. class).  Maybe I'll finally get a hold of my work-study
boss and see if I still have a job with him (prob. not -- he refuses to
call me back).

	Hopefully my work (class and paid job) will keep my mind off
my thoughts... it can't do much worse a job at it than last semester.
Maybe now I can get some work done on the methods file (if I can get
to the lib. while its open).

		Psycho Kitten
		(debating what kind of flesh to force myself to partake of...)


Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jgm@ais.org (jim miller)
Subject: Quote from article
Summary: From _Harper's_ magazine, January 1993
Organization: Ann Arbor Information Society -- Toledo Annex
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 00:58:47 GMT


"I have argued that happiness meets all reasonable criteria for a
psychiatric disorder.  It is statistically abnormal and consists
of a discrete cluster of symptoms; there is at least some evidence
that it reflects abnormal functioning of the central nervous system;
and it is associated with various cognitive abnormalities -- in
particular, a lack of contact with reality.  Acceptance of these
arguments leads to the obvious conclusion that happiness should be
included in future taxonomies of mental illness, probably as a form
of affective disorder.  This would place it on Axis 1 of the American
Psychiatric Association's _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual_.  With
this prospect in mind, I humbly suggest that the term "happiness" be
replaced by the more formal description _major affective disorder,
pleasant type_, in the interests of scientific precision and in the
hope of reducing any possible diagnostic ambiguities."

                              From "A Proposal to Classify Happiness
                              as a Psychiatric Disorder", by Richard
                              P. Bentall, in the June 1992 issue of
                              the _Journal of Medical Ethics_, pub-
                              lished in London.  Bentall is a senior
                              lecturer in clinical psychology at
                              Liverpool University.

-- 
* My 3 rules for meeting women *
1.  Seek simple women with common sense and a capacity for commitment.
2.  Stay away from women entangled in *any* way with another man.  Apply
    the word "entangle" broadly, and don't let them fool you.
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: colby@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Kenneth Colby)
Subject: Re: Suicide and Holidays
Keywords: suicide holiday
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 22:07:15 GMT

Sorry about the bad message.
Its true that the suicide rate goes up a bit at Xmas but as T.S.
Eliot pointed out "April is the cruelest month" with the rate being
120% greater than the rest of the year. Two good books on suicide
are The Enigma of Suicide by Colt and Suicide by Grollman. The 
latter has a section on postvention grieving.

	       Ken Colby
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Wounds and Time
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:20:45 GMT


In article <Bzxqv4.D76@news.udel.edu> zaphodb@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Marie
Watson) writes:
>	"Time heals all wounds."
>	I agree that it means that with time the conscious mind will smooth
>	over the details... but that is when the subconscious looks for the
>	most inopportune moment to rip the scar wide open and pour half
>	a pound of salt in it...
>			Psycho Kitten 
>			(too distraught to even torment yarn balls...)


"Marie"?  Interesting.

I know what you mean Angela.  At this point, I've resolved myself to pitifully
miniscule spoonful of wishes--just 1 or 2.  I know that I'm not even going
to get that.  Sure.  It eats in my craw a lot.

I had forgotten about this until I read a post in another newsgroup.  The
wound was ripped wide open.  Fuck it.

Anyhow, Happy Fucking New Year.  NOT!

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: justin@hp750.ccs.uky.edu (Justin Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Christmas comes but once a year
    <1992Dec26.61225.24935@ms.uky.edu> <1992Dec28.010402.16948@nmt.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:47:46 GMT

bob@nmt.edu (Bobsickle (tm)) writes:

>Life IS crappy and unfair.  There is no underlying justice to the universe.
>Moreover, our bodies and minds are designed to ensure that PAIN is the
>strongest stimulus, FEAR is the strongest emotion.  This is to enforce
>survival.  Evolution has crafted us to reproduce and die.  Nothing else.

The universe is just a large place where chaos can occur.. It makes me ill
when people ask: "Why are we here? What is our purpose?" As if: A) We are
here by design and not by chance and B) As though we had one.. 
Our minds are designed to dream, and our bodies are adequately designed
to realize those dreams. Pleasure is always the most rewarding stimulus,
and only a small mind has anything to fear.. Evolution has crafted a 
beautiful home and playground for all the earth's creatures.
WE have created 'justice' and despair..

>The joy you get out of life is meager, you must WALLOW in it.  You must grab
>life and wrest it into a form that pleases you.  You must help others enjoy
>the short, desperate time they have.

  The joy most people get out of their insignficant lives is MOST meager.
Blame it on society.. As I mentioned before, we have created a world that is
most unpleasant, and not suitable for man or beast. I don't remember where
I heard it (a dream?) but it's familiar: All you're given in life are
opportunities. Your mind and body are supposed to take advantage of them.
There are literally millions of opportunities to enjoy yourself. The irony
is that most of them dangle right in front of your face.. You don't even have
to go out and look for them.. (although, the best opportunities typically
require a little more effort) 
  I couldn't agree more with the last statement.. We are social creatures.
I used to give a lot of very serious thought as to whether or not I really
would like to go live by myself on a deserted tropical island. I figured
that I would either spend all my time thinking about people (in good and
bad ways) and that talking to yourself would get really boring after awhile.

>Never take life for granted.  Mommy was wrong.  Everything's not going to
>be OK.  But the proper attitude and appreciation for life's simple pleasures
>will help.  A lot.

Everything WILL be OK.. Whether you live a happy life or die from a miserable
one, everything will be OK. That's the 'justice' of the universe (if you want
to call it that). But with us humans, everything is not OK. Everything never
WAS OK. Let's try and not let that spoil the future..
From: freier@mail.physics.utah.edu (rodney james freier)
Subject: Re: Arguing people out of suicide (was Re: Christmas comes but once a year)
Organization: University of Utah - Physics Department
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 04:55:22 GMT

In article <85925@ut-emx.uucp>, llama@tramp.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) writes:
|> Stan Brown (brown@NCoast.ORG) wrote:
|> 
|> : First, I never said or implied that all emotional pain is incurable.  In
|> : fact I believe that much of it is curable.  My point, which may perhaps
|> : not have been stated clearly enough, is that there _is_ such a thing as
|> : incurable emotional distress, just as incurable physical distress; and
|> : that it is for the victim of such distress to decide when enough is enough.
|> 
|> i'm still not convinced that there exists incurable emotional pain,

   What do you mean by curable, first of all?  Sure, most emotional pain
can be dealt with or made to 'go away', but that's still a far cry from 
leaving the sufferer a wholly healed person. THAT is much more difficult.
There are those who would die rather than sacrifice their principles, and
for the most part these people are respected.  Why not respect those
who would rather die than to try to continue living after their dreams
are dead?  In this card game you only get one hand, and if it's a lousy
one, why not just fold?  Even though the pain of being delt a lousy hand
can be exorcised, the fact of it remains.

|> and since part of being in great emotional pain is a distortion of
|> judgment, i'm not sure that people who are suffering from the
|> condition are qualified to decide whether or not that pain is
|> incurable.
   
    And those not 'suffering from the condition' are?  The simple fact
that someone has no connection to my pain tells me that s/he knows nothing
of it.  While you may think 'sufferers' are biased towards believing their 
pain is incurable, I am certain that non-sufferers are biased towards 
believing the sufferer's pain is somehow overstated or overdramatized. 

|> i know you're going to jump my ass again and say that i'm
|> generalizing from my own experience, but my statement about people in
|> pain not being able to think clearly is backed by hundreds of hours of
|> listening to people in pain.
|> 
|> --
|> sine nomine | deb martinson
|> sigh. it's a fine line between realism and self-pity.
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Yes it is, likewise between optimism and self-aggrandizing fantasy.