HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:48:00 PDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Emily Horning <ECZ5EJH%UCLAMVS.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pre-Clam Slam

> >                                              ECZ5EJH@UCLAMVS.BITNET
                                                         ^^^^^^^
>      The host host for the clambake, I presume?
>
> The Ronin

  I wish! It's the obvious choice, though! uCLAMvs. How about for Clambake '93?
                                            ^^^^
                            Emily
                            ECZ5EJH@UCLAMVS.BITNET
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:05:41 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Don Thornton <DTHORNTN%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: America's Cup
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

When does this come on? Is it on ESPN?

Dr. Don'T let me miss sailing or tennis.
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:22:24 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Czarina Rita <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Gleanings (38)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>Bruce Sterling is an Austin-based cyberpunk writer and computing rights
>activist. He's also probably friends with our own Rita Rouvalis, who is welcome
>to tell him that I think The Difference Engine sucks.

        We certainly know each other, and have had a drink together, but
I wouldn't consider him a buddy or anything.  For what it's worth, I didn't
like Difference Engine much.  The characters were very one-dimensional, and
I'm not much of an SF fan.  Interesting piece of trivia for ya:  there's
a character at the racetrack named Michael Godwin (page 72 or so, I think).
Yup, it's the same guy you think it is.

Rita
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:21:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN

>I need to go find your earlier posting on usenet or in the archives.  I
>could have sworn that you implied that rules were something not necessary
>in a language -- that they were used for descriptive purposes only.  Whether
>you consider the rules the whole system or part of the system, they are
>essential.  And nobody has to study them.  They're absorbed automatically
>by the small child acquiring the language.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

I was using "rules" as descriptions.  And yes, you're correct. The rules, as
you use the term, are an essential part of the system.  That's what I said.
But they are not the system of English or Pascal or internal-combusion engines.

And a child doesn't internalize the rules so much as internalizing their
understanding of the system. That's why children have grammatical
inconsistencies: *doggses* and *feets* for instance. Their understanding of the
system is incomplete.  And yet, to form plurals, using your rule-based (dare I
say) system, they must have internalized some sort of "plural" rule. But the
rule breaks down very quickly. If, on the other hand, they've absorbed a
system, their system can self-correct instead of having to internalize yet
another rule and maybe another until they finally get the correct rule.

Chris
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:49:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: social judgements (was Russian)

>Er ... mightn't the conventions emerge out of experience that has
>taught the members of the society that some behaviors work better
>than others?
>
>Steve Karlson


Yes, but that doesn't mean the convention itself is correct or incorrect in some
kind of way.  Conventions, rules, etc are amoral. A given society may see it as
a good convention but to apply a moral judgement to it seems somehow...wrong, I
guess. But, I'm just being conventional.

Let's see.  We have a rule against killing people. But not because there is
something inherently good about the words "Thou shalt not kill". It's because
there is something wrong with killing someone. So, society adopted the
convention for its own protection.

I have a chiropractors appointment now. I'll try to finish this later. I'm
having a little trouble clarifying it in my head so I'm have lots of trouble
trying to explain it.  But the thought is there.

Chris
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:51:40 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Anne Harwell <aharwell%PANAM1.PANAM.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Something Meaningful and Profound
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>One whole day with *no* WORDS-L messages in the mailbox made me a very
>unhappy person...not a single message all day Sunday.
>ndh


congratulations, nancy, you just made BWP status. The Jones is the sure sign.

-abh
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:47:44 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: sad thought

On Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:28:00 MDT The Ronin said:
>Replieth     CGOODSON
>
>>Meanwhile, I'm not sure I like having to defend this system either....just
>>being the devil's advocate, keeping my personal views at bay../
>
Upon reconsideration, I regret having made the remarks which occasioned this at
all...I did it just to be obnoxious, of which I am sometimes guilty when in the
right mood... and I was that day....however, I was very aware of the fact that
there seemed to be just TONS of private schools down here, many more than
there were in Western New York and St. Louis, where I had lived previously.
...and I made an assumption from that, perhaps not justified...I don't
honestly know.
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:15:50 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep%SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: List Coma
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

What happened to the list?  My first message arrived today at noon,
the first message since Saturday night.  I thought maybe I'd been
dropped by the listserver (does happen from time to time) so I
tried to SET MAIL, but *still* haven't heard back from ugga.

I'm wondering if 200 messages are going to come in 2 minutes like the other
week, or what's going on...

Anyone?

Dr. Portigalicious
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:56:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BUHITELA%SUNYJCC.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: bumper sticker

From:   NAME: Les Buhite
        FUNC: Visual and Performing Arts
        TEL: (716) 665-5220                   <BUHITE, LES AT A1 AT JCCV03>
To:     IN%"WORDS-L@UGA"@MRGATE@JCCW22


<On Fri, 17 Apr 1992, RKESSLER@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU wrote:
<>As an undergraduate I
<> was occasionally invited to dinner at my advisor's--and that seemed an
<> honor. Do those of you who teach invite students over? Were you invited
<> when you were undergraduates?
<
<I think your brunch sounds like a really nice idea.  I remember being
<invited a couple of times to the home of the English department chair
<when I was in college.  Once she had some of the English majors over to
<make and decorate Christmas cookies.  I liked the idea that she carried
<enough to invite us to her home.
<ndh

One faculty member would invite selected students over for a Christmas
party.  His wife was from S. Carolina and would do the _real_ Southern
cooking; quite a novelty for Pennsylvanians.

My wife gives vocal lessons at home, so there's no particular novelty to
having students over.  Former students sometimes "drop by" for the weekend;
one student lived with us for most of the summer while going through some
tough personal things. There's also a small contingent of students who
share our religious persuasion, and they come by the house fairly regularly.
Obviously, we like the social aspect, though it's not for everybody.

L.
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (G Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Bitnet or Internet Words-L?
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:45:04 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Natalie wrote:
>Is there anybody on the list who actually reads all the threads of
>discussion carefully and with interest?  I might if I didn't have to
>do things like get work done occasionally.  As it is, I glance at the
>first screen of almost everything and then delete if it's part of a
>thread I'm not following.  My guess is that most people do something
>like that -- in which case they aren't bored by anything.  As for the

Actually I read everything in every article, mainly because by the
time my newsreader has shown me the first page, there's not usually that
much more to read.  I'd only skip the rest if it were > 50 lines and
on something like economics.

I feel uncomfortable about killing whole threads because the subject
tends to change within about three followups but the Subject: seldom
does.

And it's because I read everything that I get (as you've probably
noticed) a little peeved sometimes at the level of noise here (the
'is the link down or is it just me?' messages, among others.)

The list has been pretty good for meaningful articles over the
weekend; I suspect that means the Bitnet subscribers aren't getting
through :-)  I'm dreading the avalanche of hundreds of CFPs on
Monday morning when the blockage is fixed...

Regards
   Graham
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:21:41 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Don Thornton <DTHORNTN%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tarmac rugrats
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

.                        She used to take great joy in bragging about
.how superior her children were.  It was interesting my sophomore year

Once just after we had moved (again) my father was organizing an
outdoor youth group game (I can't remember what ... maybe hide and seek,
but probably a more compact game) and warned the other H.S. age kids
to watch out cause I was sharp. I was both stunned and irritated.
Irritated to be introduced to my peers in such an uncool and
completely non humble way. Mouth open and just about to fall over
because I had never even the slightest hint that he held me in any
esteem at all.

Don
p.s. As the new kid I never was too put off by hazing but felt
they should just get over it because we would surely end up as
friends within a few months so why couldn't they be a little
more civil now.
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:34:00 PDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Clint Darling <DARLING%CATLIN.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: flipping channels

>Re: channel flipping "may" be a predominantly male behavior pattern
>Why, of *course* it is.  Are any of you men driven bananas by wives who
>flip channels?
        Well, no, but there may well be a few who do...

>My theory is that it is all related to the male
>dominance thing - you know, king of the castle, tsar of the tv, and all
>of that.
        Oh, puh-leeze! If THAT were true, 'twould be enough simply to keep
the flipper thingy in our hands and refuse to share it. I actually ENJOY
flipping thru all 35 channels (even if I've read the TV guide and KNOW
there's nothing decent to find), while my wife half-watches with irritation
or bewilderment--before asking me *one more time* WHY I do that?!? I dunno.

Clint
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:35:39 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BGRISSOM%UKCC.UKY.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (39)
              13 Apr 1992 08:39:24 EST from <BGRISSOM@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

>        Actually, it was "Honda momma."  Mama Judith pointed
>        out that her leatherware was borrowed from a Honda owner and
>        not a Harley owner.

    I guess that ought to be "leatherwear."  If she had a whip,
    now that would be "leatherware."
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:33:39 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Evelyn <R3EJD%AKRONVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Isaac Asimov

I just heard a rumor that Isaac Asimov has died.  Does anyone have any
news about this?

Evelyn
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:01:02 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BGRISSOM%UKCC.UKY.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
              9 Apr 1992 09:58:31 EDT from <LEAH@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

>Can anyone re
>commend a good English grammar book? With explanations?

This comes from Mary-Claire van Leunen, A Handbook for Scholars:

  In 1990 Collins brought out John Sinclair's _Collins COBUILD English
  Grammar_, a radically new grammar based on the analysis of a huge
  corpus of machine-readable text.  The book has two disadvantages:
  It's intended for people who are learning English as a second
  language, and it's English English, not American English.  But its
  virtues far outweigh these difficulties.  The book is grounded in
  the actual practice of people who write and speak English rather than
  in hypothetical questions about what we might be able to say if we
  tried [?].

Van Leunen also highly recommends Thomas Creswell's _Usage in Dictionaries
and Dictionaries of American Usage_ (American Dialect Society, Univ. of
Alabama Press, 1975) as a corrective to what she calls "word fetishists"
who "attach totemic significance to individual lexical items."

Neither book is in our library, but I am going to recommend purchase.

brad
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:51:15 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: budget sayings
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> We've always used fuss-budget...and called our children at that age
> wiggle-squirms.

I've never heard of "wiggle-squirms."  I've always said and heard
"wiggle-worms."
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:24:09 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: budget sayings
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Mon, 6 Apr 1992, Theresa Wild wrote:
>    The other day while dressing my 6 month old, I called her a
>  squirm-budget, then looked at my husband and asked him if he had
>  ever heard of that term.  He said no, but his mother and grandmother
>  used the term fuss-budget a lot.  So did my family.  Does anyone
>  know where these terms came from and is 'budget' the right word or
>  a sound derrivative?

We've always used fuss-budget...and called our children at that age
wiggle-squirms.
ndh
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 10:29:35 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Time Magazine
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Tony (alright - "check" for the Americans) H.

Tony, you know how much I love you....I can tolerate check or cheque,
but I cannot TOLERATE the first word inside the parens.  ARRRRRGH! I
have been known to make students rewrite homework for conflating those
TWO lexical items into ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I include this on my course description, and it just about the only
thing that drives me absolutely bonkers...textually speaking.:)  )

Karen

P.S. You missed me by a minute last Friday; I was EXTREMELY disappointed
.  But I want you to know....'snarky' has now entered my personal
lexicon.  Thank you for reminding me of a great word!
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 09:52:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Seattle Mariners

Well, in case anyone missed it, the Seattle Mariners were sold to a
Japanese/American partnership on Friday.  Looks like Seattle gets some real
owners.

Chris
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:35:20 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep%SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Isaac Asimov
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Bayla, tell us under what circumstances you met Issac Asimov (what the
heck was his nickname -- the something of SF, not the Sensuous Dirty
Old Man)...

Dr. Steve Portigallstone
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Original_cc:  WHITERJ
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:40:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: music-math relationship

Stateth       "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980" <TA0SHK1@NIU.BITNET>

> Quippeth the Ronin:

     Hey, get off my 'eth', Steve.

The Ronin
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:58:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Captain CAAAAAAVEMAN!!!!! <ARHODES%DREW.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (38)DIR/NEW

>> 20) The Difference Engine/Bruce Sterling/Jurassic Park (Anne Hr.)
>
>         The Difference Engine is a science-fiction story about the first
> computer.  Bruce Sterling co-wrote the book with ? Gibson - the guy who
> wrote Neuromancer.  Can't believe I forgot his name.....   Anyway, Sterling
> wrote Jurassic Park, which is about using genetic engineering to clone
> dinosaurs.

        As noted in earlier posts, Sterling didn't write J.P.  *sigh*

>                           |_
>                           Oo\ Alex
>
                          |_
                          Oo\ Alex, Verbiage Coiner
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 06:25:48 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Aha
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

I just found some delivery-error messages NOT from France:

> uga.cc.uga.edu unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s):
>     <MAYNOR@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
> uga.cc.uga.edu unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host.
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Elvis stamp
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:50:56 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <920415.090810675.AB00102@Prime.acc.Virginia.EDU> 3669jml%PRIME.ACC.VIRGINIA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (3669/Jonathan Lord) writes:
:I know that this is probably out of the scope of this group, but I was
:wondering if anyone has taken a poll of Word-L people about their preference
:as to which Elvis stamp the USPS should manufacture; the "young" Elvis or
:the "old" Elvis?  I have a hunch as to which one this group prefers, but
:I'm not going to say.  Has this been done here already and am I being
:redundant?  Inquiring minds want to know!
:
:Jonathan


I'm still waiting for an answer to my question as to whether it were
true that the turnout for the Elvis poll was *significantly* greater
than that for the political elections recently.

G
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: my apologies
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:11:38 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <WORDS-L%92041523561888@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> FDOLEZAL%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (The heart) writes:
:On Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:45:00 MDT The Ronin said:
:>
:>     Second, one should always avoid arguing with an ass.  People may not
:>be able to tell the difference.  I withdraw from this conversation.
:>
:>The Ronin
:
:How charming.
:
:P.S.  all linguists are asses.
:P.P.S. they have nothing BUT their asterix.


I think the old joke goes 'asterisk' (as in 'I have but one asterisk
for my country') - but you probably knew that.  Or would claim that
you did - I noticed the many deliberate and jocular misspellings in
your postings to disguise your lack of skill at grammar, spelling,
and punctuation.

I think I'll join The Ronin in adding you to a kill file.  You don't
seem worth the bother of wasting type on.

G
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:42:50 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              14 Apr 92 12:50:49 -0500. <9204141932.AA09084@sics.se>

Natalie writes:

  >But wait!  The topic seems to have shifted.  Either it's shifted, or I
  >didn't know what it was in the first place.  I've been talking about
  >linguistics.  I have no idea how one might conclude whether a change in
  >human culture is good or bad.

  The topic hasn't shifted. Throughout, my concern has been with your
statement that you know as a linguist that there is nothing wrong with
changes in language. In attempting to find out what this means, and
how you know it, I have asked various questions. In particular, I elicited
the statement that there was nothing wrong with any conceivable change
in language, such as the changing of English into a system of grunts.
Now, your present comments

  >If the culture changes, the language
  >adapts.  The linguistic change cannot be considered "wrong."  Trying
  >to decide whether the cultural change that leads to linguistic change
  >is good or bad, right or wrong is another question.

seem to me to suggest that there isn't really any content in your earlier
statement to object to. What would it mean to think that there is something
wrong with linguistic change, if "linguistic change" is such a tenuous
abstraction, carefully divorced from human culture and the uses of
language?
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:16:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         CHADG%CLEMSON.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Fresh(man) Meat (was Reflections on ...)

The Ronin :
     What you said reminds me of my goal in life.  I plan to
concentrate on one area of mathmatics.  Then I plan to learn
more and more about it.  I shall continue to narrow down my
area of specialization until, at some glorious point in time,
I will know absolutely everything about nothing! What an aim,
n'est-ce pas? Bien sur, vous parlez francais, oui?
Chad Anthony Galloway I
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