HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Bologna AHC conference
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:43:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:05:12 METDST George Welling <welling@LET.RUG.NL>
said:

> The whole conference had a few "buzz-words": multi-media, OCR, connections
> with Eastern Europe.
> I have no serious objections to contacts with and aid for the eastern-
> european countries in this sphere. I just wonder if it would not
> be apropriate that some people who were willing to rewrite history for
> the old regime should openly discuss why they did it and if they still
> hold the same views.

This smacks of ideological inquisitions and purges.
An exchange in the most recent _Journal of American History_
focused on a reviewer who criticized an historical figure
for having given legal advice to members of the CPUSA
during the McCarthy Purges of the early 1950s.
Now we should prejudge people for "rewriting" history
-- while some historians in the liberal capitalist
West are doing their own rewriting?
I am not keen on the imposition of "political
correctness"; nor do I believe that we should demand
of scholars that they should change their interpretations
because the correct line has changed.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:47:17 -0900
From:         "Pat FitzGerald" <JFPF@ALASKA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Oldest City in North America?

If you are talking about European setlement in the USA, it would be St.
Augustine,Florida. It was established by the Spanish @ 1565.

                   ========================
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:14:05 CDT
From:         "Robert S. Rush" <rsr1@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Boosting the ratings

Bravo!!!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:05:28 -0400
Reply-To:     "Cheryl P. Lewis" <cpl@po.CWRU.Edu>
From:         "Cheryl P. Lewis" <cpl@PO.CWRU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Oldest City in North America?
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Dear Sir:

  How about St. Augustine, Florida?

--
Cheryl Lewis           (216) 368-2792
Circulation Assistant   cpl@po.cwru.edu
Law Library
Case Western Reserve University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: wilcox@erc.cat.syr.edu (Maynard Wilcox)
Subject: Re:      Re: The food supply of Tenochtitlan.
Organization: Electronic Resource Center, Syracuse
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 20:02:03 EDT

In article <HISTORY%92091113084678@RUTVM1.BITNET> JOSE@CLEMSON.BITNET writes:
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:24:13 EDT Jim Cocks <JACOCK01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> said
>:
>> >Not only is land transport more expensive, but the Mayas, Aztecs, Incas, etc.
>,
>> >had no suitable beasts of burden with which to pull wheeled carts.  The
>> >articles I have read emphasize this as a reason for not wasting time with
>> >wheels and such.
>>
>>  Ken Koester makes a very good point.  I would additionaly add the
>>  investment in road building that the wheel requires.  Especially
>>  in these areas.
>>
>>  Jim Cocks
>
>
>The lack of beasts of burden is a good point up to a point and the
>question of terrain was surely a factor in some places, though not
>along the Peruvian coast, for example, and not in the northern
>Yucatan nor within the Valley of Mexico.  As to cost, considering
>the investments made in other types of mass construction projects
>among the high precolumbian civilizations, I wonder if that would
>stop them if they really wanted to use wheeled vehicles over some
>type of road or prepared surface.  In some places they built
>lengthy causeways even without such vehicles.  But, and here I return
>to my first sentence, why did they not use humans to pull wheeled carts
>or something comparable?  Lots of societies have in the past and
>still do.
>
>Joe Arbena
>Clemson U.

If we are talking about the applied use of the wheel. Lets not forget one wheel applied to a lever e.g. the wheelbarrow which increased human productivity in the Middle Ages so we have the Gothic Cathedrals. Least we forget the evidence is that these American civilizations had populations that numbered in the millions and had excellent agricultures and in all probabiltiy had less chance of invasion than in the war ravaged and deseased ridden countries of Europe!
Maynard Wilcox
Maxwell School
Syracuse University
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X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
X-Vms-Mail-Cc: BOB
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:49:01 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      a new newsgroup
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

for those of you into usenet and heraldry, there is a new newsgroup:
	rec.heraldry


-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:32:00 EST
Reply-To:     RRISS@DREW
From:         Richard M <RRISS@DREW.BITNET>
Subject:      Ficino-How to subscribe

                                        Date:     08-Sep-1992 06:29pm EST
                                        From:     Riss, Richard M
                                                  RRISS
                                        Dept:     1
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-8207

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _in%HISTORY@RUTVM1 )


Subject: Ficino-How to subscribe

Does anyone know how to subscribe to the Ficino list (European Renaissance
& Reformation) at the University of Toronto?  None of my messages ever
seem to succeed in getting through to the listowners.

Richard M. Riss
RRISS@DREW
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X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTOWN-L,HISTORY-L
X-Vms-Mail-Cc: BOB
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 15:48:38 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      the social history list
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET,
              well!ubvm.bitnet!HISTOWNR@uunet.UU.NET

[those of you on the histown list, if you would please forward this
as appropriate, it would be most appreciated.]

the social history list is now up and availible for subscription.
the address of the list is:

	SOCHIST@UCBVM

to those of you who had sent me e-mail asking to be put on, but
did not get on, i ask you to please resubmit a subscribe message as
follows:

to subscribe, send e-mail to

	LISTSERV@UCBVM or listserv@ucbvm.bitnet (as appropriate)

with the single line:

	SUBSCRIBE SOCHIST your-email-address your-full-name

for instance, my subscription message would be:

	SUBSCRIBE SOCHIST bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us bob pasker

briefly, this list will address three aspects of what is called the
"New Social History":

(1) emphasis on quantitative data rather than an analysis of prose
sources.

(2) borrowing of methodologies from the social sciences, such as
linguistics, demographics, anthropology, etc.

(3) the examination of groups which have been ignored by traditional
disciplines (i.e. the history of women, families, children, labor,
etc.)

at present, some of the list members are discussing the question of
exactly what social history is.  if you have something to contribute
or if you are interested to learn more, i encourage to you subscribe.

if you have comments or questions, please feel free to e-mail.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:03:55 CDT
From:         Lynn Nelson <LHNELSON@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The food supply of Tenochtitlan.

Tenochtitlan was on an island in a shallow lake, connected to the mainland
by a long causeway. Samll boats coul reach any part of the extensive and
fertile coastline.

More important, however, were the chinampas. These were large floating rafts
of reeds and twigs anchored near the city, and upon which mud and decaying
vegetation dredged from the lake was spread. These made extremely fertile
plots, well supplied with water and within easy reach of more "fertilizer."
They could bear up to four crops a year of high-producing crops such as
squash, beans, and corn. Moreover, the cleared waters between the chinampas
were excellent for netting small fish. A small vestige of what was once an
elaborate system survives in the tourist attraction of the "floating gardens
of Xochimilco".

Interestingly enough, something of the same system was employed by the early
Mayas. In their case, swamplands were drained by cutting canals and piling
the refuse on either side to form long, narrow islands. The canals were
cleared regularly of dense water vegetation, and the vegetation used to
fertilize the islands. Local tests of this sort of agriculture shows it to
be highly productive. The canals sustained a high population of small fish
that were regularly seined for food and/or rich fertilizer.
It seems appropriate that the glyph for the early kings of Tikal was a
combination of the water lily (actually hyacinth, I believe) and the fish.

As an aside, land transport -- even with wheels -- is twenty times more
"expensive" than water transport, so a society that moves away from water
courses has a great investment to make before it can compensate for
even part of the lost efficiency of transport. The Mayas did have wheels;
they used them to make pull toys for their kids.

Lynn
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:42:21 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The food supply of Tenochtitlan.

On Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:09:00 EDT <JOSE@CLEMSON> said:
>. . .  As to cost, considering
>the investments made in other types of mass construction projects
>among the high precolumbian civilizations, I wonder if that would
>stop them if they really wanted to use wheeled vehicles over some
>type of road or prepared surface.  In some places they built
>lengthy causeways even without such vehicles.  But, and here I return
>to my first sentence, why did they not use humans to pull wheeled carts
>or something comparable?  Lots of societies have in the past and
>still do.
>
>Joe Arbena
>Clemson U.

By "cost" I meant more generally the effort required to move cargo vs. the
return you gain from it.  It takes enormous effort to move cargo overland,
compared to over water--this is true today, by the way.  If it costs more
grain to feed your beasties--be they 2 or 4 legged--than they can carry,
why bother?  That's operational cost.  Building a road, on the other hand,
is a one-time cost (yes, there's maintenance, but that isn't intitial
building).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:36:32 +1000
From:         Marion Diamond <med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: re: Clinton Administration?
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Denis,
George Bush's promise of subsidies to wheat producers in America
don't look like the Manchester School at work from here (a wheat-
growing competitor which doesn't subsidise grain).
On a related issue, has it ever struck anyone that there is a
fascinating parallel between the Japanese determinatio to protect
its rice producers, and the 19C Corn Laws?  Both were based partly
on the need to protect conservative rural electors, both were
continued long after their respective countries had become far too
powerful economically to need such protection, both increase/d the
costs of labour for the manufacturers (and artificially reduced the
supply of land for housing), and both were/are based partly on
a perceived fear of starvation which has continued for 40+ years since
their involvement in global war, and partly on a quasi-religious
identification with this particular grain as the staff of life,
which should not be surrendered to foreign producers.
Marion Diamond
med@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:10:22 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject: Re: The advent of "technological secrecy"
              11 Sep 1992 14:54:10 +1000 from <med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU>

The first chronometers sturdy enough to be taken to sea, and accurate
enough to be used for navigation were produced as the result of a contest,
held by the Admirlaty.   After many years, and much to their Lordships'
dismay, the prize was won by a commoner named Harrison.  Their Lordships'
decided that they couldn't pay the prize to a commoner, so they told him
to buzz off, while they used his clock.

Lawsuits ensued, and the government eventualy paid up......long after
Harrison's death.


Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:11:51 CDT
From:         AXTHEPD@UICVMC.BITNET
Subject:      ship types

 A hermaphrodite brig is (as the name implies) a ship with a combination of
 apparently "opposite" riggings.  Usually a two masted vessel, it combines a
 square-rigged forward mast with a schooner-rigged aft mast.  The square rigging
 makes this relatively small and light ship especially fast down wind, while the
 schooner rigging allows it to tack close into the wind.  Such speed and
 flexibility made it a natural for revenue fleets and pirates.  On the other
 hand, it wasn't especially stable for gunnery or large cargo, thus it was
 useful for sudden boardings, but not for the transportation of booty or
 sustained defensive maneuvers.

 PA Davis
 U of Illinois
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Runner up for US's name
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 10:10:58 GMT

Please put the runner up for the US's name into the LIST - just the sort
of thing one needs for quizzes, Trivial Pursuit, infuriating people at
parties etc.

Richard Pennell, History, National Univ of SIngapore.
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 07:06:10 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: NATIONALLY TELEVISED ADDRESS,
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              "YONI%BROWNCOG.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu" at Sep 6, 92 9:30 pm

>
> I would like to know more about this interesting posting feud between Kruchio
> and Foss. (or is it a feud.)

Hunh??? What's going on? If there is one, where was I? I don't
think I am playing. I merely mentioned in a weak moment - filling
in a newcomer to this list, quite some time ago - that the posting by
Dan Foss that he (the newcomer) had objected to as being too long
was one of Dan's shorter ones, from a historical perspective...
the rest is, as they say, history...Dan took my comment and ran with it.
Let that be a lesson...

Also, I believe earlier there was another interest-
> ing message lamenting over the length and boringness of certain posts. Fill me
> in on this.

Dunno about that one. Don't have much time to follow all this.


>
> Yoni@Browncog
> Yoni
>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 14:22:47 EDT
From:         Lenny <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: PS to the previous post about JFK
              5 Sep 1992 12:23:57 EDT from <PRYLUCK@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>

Computer enhancement was invented in 1963, in order to squeeze more
information out of the first pictures returned from Mars by whatever
that spacecraft was called.  The techniques used were rudimentary by
today's standards, and did not make much improvement.

Wait another 5 hears.  Some VERY innovative work is being done in that
field........in order to enchance the Hubble Space Telescoeps images.
<And P.S.....no matter what they say, HST pictures are 100X better than
anything we ever had before.>

Lenny
From: bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: bost bbss
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:04:05 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

>Are there any Bostonians out there who might know about some Boston BBS's? An
>associate of mine who lives in the greater boston area is searching for some
>BBS's that he can log onto. Thanks.

 << world >>
name ----------> The World
dialup --------> (617) 739-9753 'new'
area codes ----> 617, PDN
local access --> Boston, MA
long distance -> Compuserve Packet Network: $5.60/hour
local access --> Boston, MA
long distance -> Compuserve Packet Network: $5.60/hour
services ------> shell, ftp, telnet, irc
fees ----------> $5.00/month + $2.00/hr or $20/month for 20 hours
email ---------> office@world.std.com
voice ---------> 617-739-0202
ftp more info -> world.std.com:/world-info/basic.info

you can find all the public access internet sites in
news.answers: "Public Dialup Internet Access List" monthly
posting.

--
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us
--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:28:07 EDT
From:         "Philip J. Schwarz" <pschwarz@CABELL.VCU.EDU>
Subject:      How Much Is That in Real Money?

If the person who wished to receive a full citation of this book has
not already received it, the University Press of Virginia catalog
that I picked up today supplies it: John J. McKusker, _How Much Is
That in Real Money? A Historical Price Index_.  Charlottesville, The
University Press of Virginia for the American Antiquarian Society,
1992.  78 pages, paper, ISBN 0-944026-33-8, $10.95.
Correction: author's name is McCusker.

****************************************
***                                  ***
***        Philip J. Schwarz         ***
***      Department of History       ***
***   Virginia Commonwealth Univ.    ***
***           Box 2001               ***
***     Richmond, VA 23284-2001      ***
***     pschwarz@cabell.vcu.edu      ***
***                                  ***
****************************************

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  James Powell <JPOWELL@VTVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vpiej-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:27:06 EDT
              and Access" <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.BITNET>
From:         Michael Friedman <mfriedma@us.oracle.com>
Subject:      NCL's conference on National Libraries-Towards the 21st Century
              14 Sep 1992 09:29:19 EST
              <9209140142.AA25438@gatekeeper.oracle.com>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Unfortunately, this fax number doesn't seem to work.  Does anyone know
if there is another number?

-------------------- Beginning of Forwarded Message --------------------
 Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:29:19 EST
 Reply-To: "Publishing E-Journals : Publishing, Archiving,              and
 Access" <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
 Sender: "Publishing E-Journals : Publishing, Archiving,              and
 Access" <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
 From: Chia-ning Chiang <GRFG059@TWNMOE10.BITNET>

 POSTED TO LISTERVS, WITH APOLOGIES FOR DUPLICATE POSTINGS.

	   NATIONAL LIBRARIES -- TOWARDS THE 21ST CENTURY

     THE NATIONAL CENTRAL LIBRARY OF THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA IS PLEASED TO
 ANNOUNCE AN UPCOMING CONFERENCE ON NATIONAL LIBRARIES ENTITLED "NATIONAL
 LIBRARIES -- TOWARDS THE 21ST CENTURY".  THIS CONFERENCE WILL BE TAKING
 PLACE ON APRIL 20-24, 1993 TO MARK THE SIXTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF THE
 FOUNDING OF THE NATIONAL CENTRAL LIBRARY IN APRIL OF 1933.  THE FOCUS
 OF THE CONFERENCE WILL BE TO DISCUSS THE MISSION OF NATIONAL LIBRARIES
 AND TO PLAN FOR THE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF NATIONAL LIBRARIES INTO THE
 21ST CENTURY.  CENTRAL TO THIS DEVELOPMENT WILL BE AN EMPHASIS ON
 GREATER USE OF LIBRARY RESOURCES AND AUTOMATION.  MOREOVER, AN EQUALLY
 IMPORTANT THEME OF THE CONFERENCE IS TO EXPAND COOPERATION AND EXCHANGE
 BETWEEN NATIONAL LIBRARIES.

     WE CORDIALLY INVITE THE DIRECTORS OF NATIONAL LIBRARIES AND SCHOLARS
 WITH RESEARCH INTERESTS IN THE AREA OF NATIONAL LIBRARIES TO ATTEND.
 SPONSORING THE CONFERENCE WITH THE NATIONAL CENTRAL LIBRARY ARE THE
 LIBRARY ASSOCIATION OF CHINA AND THE CENTER FOR CHINESE STUDIES.  IF
 INTERESTED IN THE CONFERENCE "NATIONAL LIBRARIES -- TOWARDS THE 21ST
 CENTURY", WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEND YOU A PROSPECTUS WHICH CONTAINS
 FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONFERENCE.  ANY REQUESTS, PLEASE WRITE
 TO:
	      SECRETARIAT
	      CONFERENCE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE
	      NATIONAL LIBRARIES -- TOWARDS THE 21ST CENTURY
	      NATIONAL CENTRAL LIBRARY
	      20 CHUNGSHAN S. ROAD
	      TAIPEI 10040
	      TAIWAN, REPUBLIC OF CHINA

	      FAX NO: 886-2-382-0747
 X NCL60-1 MSG A0

-------------------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vpiej-l
Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 23:23:41 CDT
              and Access" <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.BITNET>
From:         Jim Nelson <jnelson@PLAINS.NODAK.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Distribution of Electronic Journals
              at

> What is needed is a simple way for non-computer people to get at the informati
> n they need.  Maybe a kind of smart search program.  Something that would
> go look for articles on a given subject on a periodic basis.
> Electronic journals are fine, but they need to have an orderof semblance about
> them.  The destribution method is an after-thought.  I'd rather have something
> that could cull articles from a central location rather than getting the whole
> journal when I'm only interested in one article.

Isn't there already something like this in places?  Several years ago, when
I used to use GEnie, they had a news retrieval sevice that would only get
articles on certain subjects or containing certain keywords.  I don't know
if they still do this, but wouldn't it be possible if there was some was
some central archive?

--
Jim, in the Land of the Lost.            |Disclaimer:  I disclaim nothing.
ObQuote: Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of |   However, I claim nothing.
          Wizards, For You are Crunchy,  |
          and Good with Ketchup.         |  Blessed Be!
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X-Envelope-to: VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.BITNET
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:22:00 EDT
              and Access" <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.BITNET>
From:         "Peter Graham, Rutgers U., (908) 932-2741" <GRAHAM@ZODIAC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Apple Library's Network Citizen Awards for 1992

It's very pleasing to see Apple putting concrete support into network
activities that from its standpoint must be at a relatively low level.  Such
awards speak well for the recipients, all of whom on this round are very
worthy indeed, and for Apple as well.

--Peter Graham, Rutgers University
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