HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "Democracy" & "Israel" are Axonyms.
Keywords: Democracy, Israel, vicious, bloody, killers.
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:45:41 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr14.212002.12265@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.051323.9152@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>>That incident demonstrated to me in a very powerful way both the
>>hate prevailing in that area of the world called the middel east,
>>and the polarity involved; for years after that, I categorized
>>Arabs as "good - like the driver" and "bad - like the guy who
>>was sitting next to me". There are bad ones and good ones on
>
>My story:  Two years ago, I was trying to get from the Hebrew University 
>campus in Jerusalem to the Mount of Olives, a short walk away, to take 
>some scenic photos of the city.  The problem is that this involved 
>walking through an Arab neighborhood and everyone advised against it.
>I was hoping to hitch a ride in a police car or something and didn't 
>really know how to proceed.  There was almost no traffic on this road.
>
>Finally, an empty Mercedes taxi driven by a young Arab fellow arrived
>and stopped to offer me his services.  I quickly accepted.  He not 
>only drove me to the Mount of Olives, perhaps a 2 minute drive away,
>but waited there for me until my motor-driven camera ate up a whole roll 
>of film.  He warned me that children throw stones at tourists there;
>perhaps his presence there helped me out a bit.  
>
>From there he drove me to the gates of the Old City, where I paid him.
>He didn't have any change (and I only had a large bill) but that didn't
>bother me.  
>
>In the few minutes that we spent together, he told me about his feelings
>about the intifada.  He said that it was very bad, that the violence
>only hurts people.  Because he dares to accept Jews as customers, his
>windows had been broken many times by the Shebab, the intifada youth
>and terrorists-in-training.  A taxi driver in Israel who has to buy a 
>new Mercedes windshield every few weeks hardly has a chance of making 
>any money, in the end.  After that, I paid attention to Arab taxis and 
>noticed that quite a few of them had gouge marks on the hood where large
>stones and cinder blocks had hit them.   (Of course, Israeli cars are 
>the more cutomary recipients of such projectiles.)  The violence of the
>intifada hurts everyone and helps no one.
>
>After he drove away, I realized that I had missed the most important
>photo of the day - the Arab taxi driver and his cab.
>

Too bad.  How can we believe your nice story without this photograph
to support it :)

>-- 
>Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com    
>American-Occupied New York
>My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The A
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 04:54:44 GMT


In article 7095@techbook.com, gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr13.203813.19355@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>>>   ># >	   What the world community considered it was irelevent.  How would
>>>   ># >   you like it if the world community refused to recognize your property
>>>   ># >   rights to your own home?  
>>>   > 
>>>   This is a very good question.  Turn it around, Makowsky, how would you
>>>   feel if you were a Palestinian Arab in Jaffa in 1947.  The United
>>>   Nations tells you that your home is actually in the Jewish state. How
>>>   would you like it?
>
>>Right question, wrong locality.  Jaffa was in fact in the Arab
>>partition.  It was attacked by the Irgun; its Arab residents fled
>>under mortar attack.  British attempts to regain the city failed.
>>Jaffa was once the largest Arab city between Cairo and Beirut, no more.
>>--
>According to maps in two books I have in front of me, Jaffa/Tel Aviv
>were clearly within the domain of the Jewish State, as defined by the
>1947 UN proposal.  The Jewish Agency's 1946 proposal did offer a
>corridor from the inland Arab State to the coast at Jaffa, but this was
>not included in the UN plan.  See, for example, Michael Cohen's The
>Origins and Evolution of the Arab-Zionist Conflict, p. 128, map 5.
>
>--Jeff

No, Jaffa was NOT in the area of the Jewish State proposed by 
the UNGA.  I don't have time to look up your map, but I have 
the full text of the UNGA resolution beside me.

One possible source of confusion here: the UN resolution was 
based largely on the recommendations of the U.N. Special
Commission on Palestine.  The UNSCOP report placed Jaffa in
the Jewish sector, but the UNGA moved it into the Arab sector,
presumably because the population was predominantly Arab.

Brendan.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Feminism Meets Terrorism
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:38:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.024328.24670@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.195626.29417@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr1.143612.16645@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>>>I guess that in Jake's mind women bear
>>>children and children grow up to become terrorists so killing women and
>>>children "is a legitimate preventative measure, or something along those
>>>lines." 
>
>>You guess wrong, Ali.  Shouldn'a relied on your buddy Ahmed.
>
>Is there a reason why the two of you seem to regard killing women as
>worse than killing men?
>
>Just curious.

Seeing as Brad/Ali brought it up, perhaps you should adress the question
to him.

Out of curiosity, are you suggesting that men killing women and children
is about as (un)reasonable as men killing men?  How about planeloads of
women and children?



-- 
Jake Livni
jake@bony1.bony.com
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Alex Odeh , again... (was Re: U.S. Aid)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:12:08 GMT

In <1992Apr10.131609.20345@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>	I see what you mean.  If the establishment in Israel would move to
>put on trial those Arabs (I doubt any could be found, nor do I believe
>they are in Israel) who were responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre,
>they would be forced to admit the role of the Hagana and the Jewish
>Agency in fostering the lie that the Irgun/Stern Gang caused a
>massacre.

Mr. Makowsky,

It seems there are revisionists among Jews, also.

It's obvious that at least a part of the reason for the Deir Yassin
massacre was that the Irgun wanted to terrorize Arabs and gain a
psychological advantage over them.  Even Begin has admitted this.
Most historians agree with this position.  I suspect that even the
Israeli government would admit it.

I don't see why you're so obsessed with the matter.  One blight does
not destroy the validity of Zionism; it just shows that Zionists can
sometimes perform immoral acts during wartime.  That's no different
from any other group of people.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10376 soc.culture.arabic:1852 soc.culture.lebanon:2138
From: jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:39:50 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41

In article <1992Apr6.182432.27791@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>   The people who are murdered are people who cooperate with Israel,
>   and Israel has no reason to want them dead. Palestinian extremists
>   do, and they kill them brutaly.
>
>   I don't know the current number, but in March the NY Times gave the number
>   of Palestinians killed by Palestinians as 54. It is three time more
>   than the number of people killed by the IDF in riots (I don't know
>   the number of Israelis, including the brave Muslem guy killed by
>   the Jaffa slasher, who were killed by terrorists. I can think
>   of 6 right now, there are probably more, maybe someone
>   has the exact number?).

This Palestinian killing Palestinian is not dissimilar to the Zionist
killing Zionist violence which occurred during the British Palestinian
mandate.  Different factions disagreed on how to push towards an
independent state, and the disagreement led to murders.

As it turns out, one of the favorite way one Zionist murdered another
in those days was simply to inform on him to the British.  This would
result in arrest, confinement, execution, or just the elimination of
his cover.  Any of these outcomes accomplished the goal of removing
the offending individual from the scene.

How much do Palestinians inform on each other to the Israeli
occupation, I wonder?  Probably enough so that it gives the Israelis a
real tool against the local instigators.

Such violence between factions of a disappropriated group are common:
the Palestinians, the pre-Israel Zionists, the Afghan "freedom
fighters", and the South African blacks have all fought each other
even when their common goal has (had) not been achieved (yet).

--
=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Israel Vents Frustration On Villages
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:23:45 GMT

In <1992Apr9.140947.27459@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:


[...]
>Israeli
>jets also terrorized the cities of Tyre and Nabatiyeh for several hours
>by making repeated passes over the areas and breaking the sound barrier. 

Good thing they weren't Iranian jets, else the pilots might have bombed
the villages as they did in Iraq, killing a reported 150 people.  Perhaps
the Islamic Republic News Agency should chew on that for a few minutes.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Lowenbrau houses revisionist and Neo-Nazi meeting in Germany
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:48:11 GMT

In article <ARILD.92Apr15185223@milan.philosophie.uni-stuttgart.de# arild@adler.philosophie.uni-stuttgart.de writes:
#
#On the German TV-station Suedwest 3 last night, they showed a disturbing
#program about the neo-nazi movement in Germany. Part of the program was
#about revisionist meetings held in Germany, where the "historian" Irving
#was participating. I think it was on Hitler's birthday in 1990: A big
#gathering in Loewenbrau's brewery beer hall in Munich hosted Irving and
#several prominent neo-nazi leaders in Germany. The German national anthem
#was sung, liters of beer were guzzled and Sieg Heil greetings eagerly
#issued. 

Irving has written in 1977 a long book called "Hitler's war" in which
he completely agrees that the Holocaust had happened - he cites numbers,
documents, testimonies, you name it. Now he suddenly "changed his mind",
and he appears in neo-nazi rallies, calling for antisemitic riots to
"punish the Jews for their lies". 

#This should show clearly the connection between revisionism and the
#neo-nazi movement, which has been frequently denied by b-cpu posters.

And add white supremacists to the list - there are many ways to
spell 'Nazi scum'.


Yes, my friends - the Nazi vermin is raising its head again, no doubt.
Those who think it is none of their business, should read the following:

                          First the Nazis went after the Jews,
                            but I was not a Jew,
                              so I did not object.
                          Then they went after the Catholics,
                            but I was not a Catholic,
                              so I did not object.
                          Then they went after the Trade-Unionists,
                            but I was not a Trade-Unionist,
                              so I did not object.
                          Then they came after me,
                            and there was no one left to object.
                          (Pastor Martin Niemoller - a German Theologian)


-Danny Keren.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10422 soc.culture.turkish:4035 talk.politics.soviet:3285 soc.history:3502
From: sybok@m4-035-1.MIT.EDU (The Terminator)
Subject: Re: TO RALPH WINSTON
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:06:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr06.182723.17762@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>> anti-Semitism, anti-male or anti-white rhetoric ("All men are rapists"
>>>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> "All white people are evil"), etc. etc. Perhaps my perspective is
>>>> different because I am Canadian.
>>>
>>>     I agree with you 100% on that!  Good post.
>>>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>                                Ralph Winston
>>>
>>>-.-
>>>Banished CPU (etc. etc.)
>
>What is Banished CPU?

You mean Brain-damaged CPU, home of Hitler Youth?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: How to post an article from the news media.
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:34:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.140151.16047@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>I was under the impression that the city of Jerusalem was to be an
>international city under the U.N. partition plan. As soon as they had
>the opportunity, Israel seized as much of the city as they could get.
>Have we forgotten that Israel seized a very large chunk of what was to
>be the "Arab" portion of the U.N. partition?

 	Yes, during and after the War for Independence.

								-Manu

>
>Brad Hernlem


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel Accused Of Gunning Down Activists
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:31:37 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr7.223124.15784@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
(Jake Livni) writes:
> In article <1992Apr6.140734.17861@ncsu.edu> hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> >In article <cubsfan.702336098@camelot>, cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu
> >(Michael Silverman) writes:
> >> In <1992Apr3.163711.3172@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
> >Hernlem) writes:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >PALESTINIANS ACCUSE ISRAEL OF GUNNING DOWN ACTIVISTS
> >> 
> >> >OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, Fri. (UPI)
> >>  ^^^^^^^^
> >> 
> >> The UPI news wires do not include this word. This is something called
> >> "editorializing" and UPI does not do that. Brad, its fine that you report
> >> these news items, but do you have to embellish them, and not only that,
> >> but make your additions indistinguishable from the original text of the
> >> UPI story.
> >
> >I don't get these stories from the "wires". This is exactly the way the
> >story appeared in the newspaper. If I change anything or leave something
> >out I somehow make a note of that fact but I usually present news
> >postings exactly as I read them.
> 
> ... in the Saudi Gazette, where they've been pre-editorialized for you.
> 
> 'nuff said.
> 
> -- 
> Jake Livni
> jake@bony1.bony.com
> My opinions only - employer has no opinions.

Jake, you're beginning to sound like ARF in reverse.
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:45 PDT
Subject: MATTI PELED TOUR - latest update
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1483500208:000:2147
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Apr 15 19:45:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: MATTI PELED TOUR - latest update

/* Written  4:43 pm  Apr 15, 1992 by aicipp in cdp:mideast.action */
/* ---------- "MATTI PELED TOUR - latest update" ---------- */
Following is a revised schedule for Dr. Mattityahu Peled, who
will be touring the U.S. in April and May, speaking on the
Arab-Israeli conflict and the peace process, and discussing such
related issues as the arms race in the Middle East and American
aid to Israel.

Matti Peled, born in 1923, served in the Palmach, the pre-state
Jewish militia, and in the Israeli Defense Force, reaching the
rank of Major General and serving on the General Staff during the
1967 Six-Day War.  After discharge, he became head of the Arabic
Literature Department of Tel-Aviv University.  In 1975, he took
part in founding the Israeli Council for Israeli-Palestinian
Peace, of which he is the president.  Between 1984 and 1988 he
was a member of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, as a member
of the Progressive List for Peace, a joint Jewish-Arab slate.

For more information, contact Mary Appelman of the America-Israel
Council for Israeli-Palestinian Peace at "AICIPP" on either
Peacenet or MCI Mail, or by telephone at 708-969-7584.  Many
organizations have helped to arrange the following public
meetings.

April 23-26 Washington DC (private meetings)
April 27 Shippensburg University, Shippensburg PA, 8 pm
April 28 (private meetings)
April 29 Glassboro State College (NJ), Student Center, 12:30 pm
         Philadelphia World Affairs Council, 5:45 pm
April 30 University of Chicago, Rockefeller Chapel, 7 pm
May 1    Atlanta Temple 8:15 pm 
May 2-4  (private meetings)
May 5    Ilif School of Theology, Denver, 7 pm 
May 6    Temple Emanu-El, San Francisco, 7:30 pm         
May 7    First Congregational Church, Palo Alto, 7:30 pm
May 8    U of California at Santa Cruz, Classroom Unit 1, 7:30 pm
May 9-11 (Time off -- private)
May 12   Univ. of Washington, Seattle, Kane Hall, Room 220, 8 pm
May 13   Eric Hamber Secondary School, 5025 Willow Street,
         Vancouver, 8 pm
        
If additional public appearances are scheduled, we will post them
later.
/


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: War Resisters League on Terrorism (should be "of terrorism.")
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:39:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.165432.22407@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>of the Islamic Jihad.)
>

>
>Brad Hernlem writes:
>
>p.s. I am sure that David would not like me claiming that all Israel can
>be represented by the Kach party's beliefs and actions..


	1.  The Kach party was decried as racist and cannot run for govt.
	positions.

	2.  Has anybody done the same about the Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad.etc.?

								-Manu
	
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 16:33:38 IST
From: Uri Zakai <RPR1ZAK@TECHNION.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: the "islamic jihad" way

seich ziad nachel , leader of the "lebanease dept." in the "islamic jihad
movement" spoke yesterday in zidon , about the attack on the israeli
convoy  in s.lebanon .

when he was asked about his fear of israeli responce the seich replied
"we have no military positions or known bases , we mix with the civil
population"

just a reminder - the terrorists that attacked the convoy held 11 woman and
children in the house from which they attacked the convoy .

i guess they too read the book "instant public opinion-intifada style".

onward children of the revolution .

uri zakai
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: spinoza@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The Alarming Facts"
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:42:34 GMT

In article <JIME.92Apr12001214@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu>  
jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
> In article <1992Apr12.014433.29249@ennews.eas.asu.edu>  
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
> >   [Characterizing the rock-throwing youths in the intifada as solely
> >    responsible for their own deaths at the hands of the Israeli  
soldiers]
>    ... may be propaganda.  I am not denying that.  But it is also the
>    truth.  If you believe it is misleading please say why.  Since the
>    "palestinians?" themselves glorify these children for their actions,  
I
>    think you are barking up a tree you cannot climb.
> 
> If the Israeli soldiers didn't fire the guns, the Palestinians
> wouldn't be killed.  All the Israeli government has to do to stop the
> killings is to change their policies of crowd control in the occupied
> areas.  The present policy for controlling the intifada by force,
> might, shootings, and beatings has failed.  The Israeli government
> must realize this by now, but they are unwilling to change their
> tactics.
> 

(sarcasm on)
Gee, Jim. what a brilliant idea! 
Of course, the Israelis should have seen it before! I mean, why use deadly  
forcer against someone just becuase he's trying to kill you with a knife,  
or a molotov cactail or a stone? Why not just talk to him nicely and ask  
him if maybe he could refrain from trying to stab, burn, or stone?
Of course, the Palestinians, being eminently reasonable, would recognize  
the logic inherent in your argument and desist immediately.
(sarcasm off)

So, Jim, what exactly would you suggest in the way of "crowd control" for  
violent demonstrations and similar breaches of the peace?




lev
"Lo yisa goy el goy cherev, lo yilmedu od milchama.....but until then,  
keep the Galil oiled and loaded......................................."