HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: saj@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.suravlas)
Subject: Re: SB:  Cruz and BJ
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:13:32 GMT

In article <2246@sjfc.UUCP> glb3833@sjfc.UUCP (Gidget Bowden) writes:
>Hi all, I just watched the weeks shows last night, finishing up with
>Cruz's good-bye show.  Let me tell you I couldn't stop crying from the
>time everyone was in the desert saying good-bye to him.  I even cried
>when he was telling Kelly she couldn't go, and was running after the
>plane.  This is definately a show I'm going to save. 

Cruz' good-bye show! As a good-bye show I thought it was very good. They
gave him a very good send off. He said his good-byes to all his friends.
I especially liked his scenes with Julia. Of all the people he bid adieu,
she was around the longest (except for CC - but he doesn't count) and I 
found that scene the most moving. All the other actors were new to the
parts (Kelly, BJ, Reese, Jodie, his father and I never considered him
close to Mason) and their parting didn't affect me. The acting was very
good, especially Cruz and Julia. He made a grand exit leaving by plane
and Kelly chasing after him.

Now, as far as the story goes, I'm extremely disappointed. The writers could
do a terrific job building up the story to climax and then completely
destroy the ending as they did in the Haunted House Story. Cruz's
departure was completely out of character for him. This is not the Cruz that
we know. He was a very intelligent man. He became a complete idiot and his
reason for leaving and completely changing his life and his lifestyle
was unbelievable to say the least and ridiculous.  He did this all for a
girl he thinks is his daughter, there was really no definite proff except
Jodie's word and she has supposedly lied about this all of BJ's life. He
was going to screw up his whole life in order for BJ not to get upset -
someone he knew only for about six months or so. What about his other two
children that he raised all their lives. There are two obsessions on the
show that I find hard to swallow - Cruz's and McCabe's. I know the writer's
want to make exciting stories in order to improve the ratings, but there
has to be some semblance of truth and consistency with them.

Well, Kelly (who isn't my favorite character - especially after she put
her foot in her mouth) got exactly what she deserved. I must say she
doesn't even come a tiny, little, bitsy, weenie close to Ingrid Bergman
in looks nor talent. When Cruz told her that he wouldn't take her with him
I said, "ALL RIGHT, GREAT, TERRIFIC the bitch is finally getting what she
deserves". When she stated to run after the plane, I was hoping the wing
would get her between the head and the shoulders.  Maybe, I,m over reacting,
but this Cruz send off really pissed me off.

Now, please don't tell me. It is not true. It couldn't possibly be. NO WAY -
NOT OUR HERO - There must be some kind of error - I'm sure the writers
will correct this - BULL!!

DID CRUZ DESERT HIS CHILDREN????????

Poor kids, deserted by their mother and father - SB your screwing up big time.

John
From: riddle@brahms.udel.edu (Tammy Riddle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: SB & DOOL:  Ratings for Week of Aug 24-28
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:12:27 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


Here's the ratings -- More stuff to follow later today & tomorrow with any
luck.

Y&R     8.4/30
AMC     7.0/23
ATWT    5.9/21
B&B     5.7/19
GL      5.6/20
OLTL    5.2/18 *Tied w/GH
GH      5.2/18
DAYS    4.9/16 *Back in 8th place.
AW      3.7/13
SB      3.1/11
LOV     2.6/9

I think SB stayed consistent with last week's ratings.  It is going to be
interesting to see what happens when the ratings are published next week.
They will be for the 1st week that the Boston and Philadlephia areas
stopped showing SB.

Later...

--Tammy

-- 
**************************************************************************
I always have THOUGHTS about anything;      * Tammy Riddle - U of Delaware 
 However, SOLUTIONS might be another story! * riddle@brahms.udel.edu 
**************************************************************************
From: amyk@netcom.com (Amy Kurtzman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: SB:  SOW Info (Long)
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:43:13 GMT
Organization: Amy's Boca-By-The-Sea Resort (sm)

In article <BuACss.JKo@news.udel.edu> riddle@brahms.udel.edu (Tammy Riddle) writes:

>
>CRUZ LEAVES KELLY AND SB
>
>Cruz finds that keeping the secret that BJ is his daughter is too heavy a
>burden this week on SANTA BARBARA, and he leaves town.  He also hopes NBI
>agent Connor will think he killed Frank Goodman, which would free BJ from
>being charged with the murder she committed.  [NOTE:  The magazine said
>Connor is an NBI agent, but isn't he a FBI agent?!? :-)]

No, they don't call im FBI on the show. I think they may be calling
him an NIB agent, though, for National Investigations Bureau.

>It would be human nature for Kelly to resent BJ's existence.  "That anger
>has to come into play," Davidson says.  "Her reasoning self knows Cruz made
>the decision; the best part of herself would not feel that way.  However, I
>imagine the other part...it's like when you get married and have a
>stepchild.  You don't hate the child, but it gets in the way."

Eileen Davidson sure knows how to put her foot in her mouth! Remember
that comment she made about Kelly's IQ going up 30 points when she
took over the role?

>Dressed casually in black jeans and a T-shirt, and surrounded by pictures
>of A Martinez and Martinez's family, Nichols is sitting in what used to be
>Martinez's dressing room, which now belongs to him.  

Sounds like they booted A Martinez out of his dressing room before
his last day at work! How rude! 

>That's it.  Sorry it is *SO* long, but there is really A LOT of press
>regarding SANTA BARBARA these days.  Also, I, too, got a card from Stephen
>Nichols.  It talked about his appearance on SB, asking me to watch, and
>asking me to help save SB by writing my local affiliate and/or the network
>in California.
>
>Tammy
 
Thanks for typing in all this info Tammy! Are you in a Stephen Nicols
fan club -- is that how you got a card?



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amy Kurtzman                   |  "By August I'll be just a puddle."
amyk@netcom.COM                |     
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: SC: no 9/7 posting today
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:41:28 GMT

sorry, but some how I lost my head (well, actually, I was watching the Batman
marathon... sheesh!) and didn't get around to watching the SC episode yesterday.
I plan to watch both this evening if possible, so should be able to catch
up tomorrow.
-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden@aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: L621035@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: AMC:MONDAY UPDATER NEEDED 9/21-???
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:57:10 GMT

  Hi, I was s'posed to take over 'til Mary got back online, & discovered
Trish's excellent writing style, & got her to do it, until she had to go
back to work, but Mary still won't be totally online, & now I discovered
that my dept has started scheduling our Monday meetings for 12:30pm, &
so I'll only be able to listen to 1/2 the show...so...we need a volunteer
with a good VCR or memory. :-)
  Sorry, but my bosses have no concept of how important AMC really is!
Pam
From: rublee@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (Darrell Rublee)
Subject: Re: GL: About Wednesday
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:21:47 GMT

In article <9209100046.AA12916@msc2.msc.cornell.edu> gund@msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Linda "the goose" Gunderson) writes:
>
>	Hello folks.
>	Poor Lillian!  Why does all the bad stuff have to
>happen to her?  I wonder if Beth will come back to Springfield
>to be with her this time.  Now that I am thinking about this,
>though, it seems that if she had another tumor that was getting
>big enough to feel it would have turned up in her recent
>mammograms.  Maybe it'll be something benign...

Poor Lillian - What more can go wrong in her life.  But, WHY oh WHY
did she confide in EVE GUTHRIE - Eve's hairDO just can't compare
to Lillians'.

>	Thank goodness Eleni finally read the letter!  It makes
>ME feel better, even if she keeps spouting the "I love my
>husband" crap.

I wish this storyline would get going!  But, we have to wait until
Eleni gets pregnant.  All you females out there - if Eleni took one
"candy" birth control pill can she get pregnant by spending just one
night with A-M.  Is this possible?


>	I thought I would have a hard time believing the scenes
>with any new Blake they could trot out, but I was wrong.  Blake
>is different, but still fun.  


I Love the new Blake!  I think she is starting to get into the character
herself and not trying to copy the old Blake.  I loved the scene
in the hospital when she confronted A-M!

when she confronted A-M.
From: rippel@math.rutgers.edu (Jennifer Rippel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: ATWT - my return to the ward
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:34:46 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Hi everyone!!!  It's great to be back.  I've actually been reading
all the posts for about a month, but I've been using a new newsreader
and I'm just now figuring out how to post.  Well, I've settled into
my new cell (grad school), and it was a difficult adjustment, but is
getting easier.  At least I have you all to keep me company.

I have actually been watching the show for the past month and a half,
after not having watched it in years, and I fear that I am getting 
hooked again, just when I have less time to watch than ever.  Oh well,
it's just been so *good* lately.

Some comments:

I too was screaming at Frantic when she actually *slept* with H2D.
I thought I was alone in my apartment, but found that I wasn't when
my roommate came out of her room to ask why I was yelling.

Also, I like Juicy & Scooter!!  Yes, it is a bit twisted, but
so what?!  And Jeep, one of the first things that popped into my
mind while I watched them together was, "I can't wait to see the
look on Sleaza's face when she finds out!!"

It's great to be back!

Joisey
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: pesci@euler.uchicago.edu (Adriana Pesci)
Subject: Re:GH: Blue eyes?
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Univ. of Chicago
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:28:42 GMT

From uchinews!linac!uwm.edu!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!ia8 Thu Sep 10 08:18:38 CDT 1992
 In message < Message-ID: <92253.233703IA8@psuvm.psu.edu>>
 Alan R. Heyd Says:

>During todays show (Wed, 9Sep92), while Ned and Julia where in the
>jet on their way to Boston Ned made some remark about Julia's blue
>eyes.  I don't know, they look more brown to me.  If they're blue
>then they're navey blue.  Am I color blind or is the color going
>out on my TV?

	Yes, she has blue eyes, a very dark blue. At least that is what
they look like everywhere else I saw her, meaning a few commercials and
a bad movie. She is not blonde though, she has dark hair. I find hard to 
understand why does she dye her hair. May be I am the only person in
the world that thinks this but , I think that the most beautiful
combination is dark hair and blue eyes, let's say like Pierce Brosnan
for example. Why somebody like that would dye the hair blonde!
Yes I am weird i do not like blond hair...:-)

Adriana
From: maryb@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: DOOL: Cast Listing (9/8/92)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:59:07 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Here is the cast from the show on Tuesday, September 8th.

Mickey Horton           John Clarke
Shane Donovan           Charles Shaughnessy
Victor Kiriakis         John Aniston
Jennifer Rose Deveraux  Melissa Reeves
John Black              Drake Hogestyn
Jack Deveraux           Matthew Ashford
Dr. Marcus Hunter       Richard Biggs
Maggie Horton		Suzanne Rogers
Isabella Black		Staci Greason
Julie Williams		Susan Seaforth Hayes
Caroline Brady		Peggy McCay
Jo Johnson		Joy Garrett
Shawn Brady		Frank Parker
Dr. Carly Manning	Crystal Chappell
Lawrence Alemain	Michael Sabatino
Tanner Scofield		Michael Easton
Molly Brinker		Shannon Sturges
Carrie Brady		Tracy Middendorf
Abe Carver		James Reynolds
Vivian Alemain		Louise Sorel
Bo Brady		Robert Kelker-Kelly
Lisanne Gardner		Lynn Herring
Jesse Lombard		Tony Rhodes
Roger Lombard		Mark Drexler
Stella Lombard		Elaine Bromka
Austin Reed		Patrick Muldoon
Kimberly Brady		Patsy Pease
Nicholas Allemain	Erik von Detten
Phillip Collier		Richard Burgi
Taylor McCall		J. Cynthia Brooks
Calliope Jones Bradford Arleen Sorkin
Simmons			Gerry Gibson
Andrew Donovan		Brian Davila
Chelsea			Lisa Marie Todd
Tim Rollins		Brian Heidik
Randy			Roger Downing
Casey			David Carlisle Clark
Mr. Armstrong		John Petlock
Dr. Dieter von Leyden   Biff Manard
Vasco			Richard Balin
Walter van Damm		Greg Lewis
Marguerite Salazar	Maria del Mar
Dr. Crispin		Don Craig
Dave			Don Frabotta

with
Wayne Northrop as Roman Brady
and
Deidre Hall as Marlena Evans
From: steveh@grafex.Cupertino.CA.US (Steve Harding KA6ETB)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: ATWT: TAN Misc Trivia
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 20:06:47 PDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The GRAFex Company

bkrumsee@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Barb Krumsee) writes:

> Hi Everyone!
> 
> We just returned from an incredible vacation in the Rockies. In order to keep
> our 8 year old daughter entertained, we kept track of all the different state
> license plates we saw. We found every state including Alaska and Hawaii but 
> didn't see one from Rhode Island.
> 
> Are any of you wardees from out that way? If so, can you send a description o
> a Rhode Island license plate. My daughter is beginning to believe that there 
> a barbed wire fence around the state so that no one can leave.

If it's like Oregon...the fence is to keep people out.  Especially cranky
Californians.

stever

-- 
play:steveh@grafex.Cupertino.CA.US 408.252.0578     work:harding@nas.nasa.gov
              A prince trapped in the body of a dirty old man.
From: cabeca@sw.stratus.com (Linda Cabeca)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: DOOL: Update for Tuesday September 2
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:30:13 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.


	Carrie calls Wings and finds out that they don't have her reservation
for the jazz concert.

	Izzy tells John that she is going to have her hair done but she is
really going to have the biopsy done.

	Kim is confused about the pack of cigarrettes she finds in her purse.

	Lawrence is upset that Vivian is not at home to talk about the
upcoming board meeting.  He doesn't know that she is with Vic.

	Viv tells Vic that it is too dangerous for them to be together.  Vic
proposes that she and Nikki come to live with him in Greece.  Viv says she
can't, Vic wants to know why she is holding back.

	Carrie invites Julie to lunch and asks her if she can do anything
about getting her and Austin a table at Wings for the jazz concert.  JUlie 
tells her she will have a table for the first show.

	Shane calls the Mayo clinic to find out about therapy for patients
like himself.  They tell him to call back.  He invites Kim to lunch and 
notices the cigarettes in her purse.

	Vic tells Viv that he is willing to do whatever it takes to make
the relationship work.  He tells her to concentrate on the here and now,
forget the past and the future.  She tells him she can't see him anymore.

	Shane is concerned about Kim's smoking habit.  She tells him that
she is going to quit.

	Isabella is told that the biopsy results will take a couple of
days.  She decides she won't tell John until the results are in.

	Izzy is late for the board meeting and John has to present the 
proposal.

	Larry wants to know what is going on between Vic and Viv.  He thinks
that she is seeing Vic and demands loyalty.

	Austin tells Tim that he and Carrie are just friends.  Austin tells
him she reminds him of someone else.

	Vic invites Viv over for dinner and she accepts.



-- 
*****************************************************************
Linda M. Cabeca			cabeca@chablis.sw.stratus.com
Stratus Computer Inc.		Linda_Cabeca@vos.stratus.com
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong)
Subject: 2000 Malibu Road & ATWT : Craig & Dusty?
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:31:18 GMT

Was it my imagination or did I see the former Craig Montgomery and Dusty
(Lilly's former love) from ATWT on 2000 Malibu Road last night?
Please reply by personal e-mail.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: snoopy@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Cindy Camp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: DOOL:  TAN:  Gabrielle
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:50:51 GMT
Organization: Denver, Colorado


Friday night, I was up late watching tv and on CBS there
was this show called Dark Justice or something.  Well
Eve's mother, Gabrielle was a guest on the show.  I
didn't catch much of the plot, all I really saw was
her doing a major strip tease for one guy, and then a little
later in the show, she was doing a strip tease for
one other character.  I guess she was some sort of
criminal or something.

What is the actress' name?  It slips my mind at 
this moment.

Cindy


-- 
 Cindy Camp - Usual disclaimers apply   |  Just waiting for a good quote
 Martin Marietta  (303)977-9804 	|  or lyric right now.
 snoopy@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com  or	|  
 cnewell@azum.den.mmc.com		|
From: dwv@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Dave Vollman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: AMC:Refridgerators
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:43:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HASA "S" Division

In article <1992Sep11.143343.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, klswan01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> I noticed today that people in Pine Valley tend to have those
> tiny refridgerators that you usually see in dorm rooms.  Stuart
> and Brooke both have them in their homes.  Personally, I couldn't
> survive without a full-size fridge, and I have never seen anybody
> in the "real world" who only has one of those little ones!  IOAS!

I have a little one! However, it's in my office at work. Need a lot
of 12 oz. caffiene inductions to keep me going. I know what you
mean, the SO and I have the 21 cubic foot model at home! Now, do
any of those places have the "necessities" of kitchen life, like
a dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, and stereo speakers?


-- 
				| Dave Vollman (HASA "S" Division)
 "In the field of opportunity	| AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL
 it's plowing time again"	| Email: dwv@ihlpm.att.com
		- Neil Young	| AT&T would never let ME speak for THEM!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: steph@ivy.Princeton.EDU (Stephanie Eggers)
Subject: AMC: TAN: Homefront
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University, Electrical Engineering Dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:26:31 GMT

From: eec@leland.Stanford.EDU (Edie Cheng)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

>Hi Stephanie!

>Robert Duncan McNeil played the vet who showed up in River Run claiming 
>to be a war buddy of Mike Sloan Jr's.  He tried to get some money out of 
>Mr. Sloan Sr by saying that he and Mike Jr had planned to start a business 
>after the war, or something like that.  I was never quite clear on whether 
>he really did know Mike Jr or not, because at least part of what he said 
>was a con.

>Somehow he got taken in by the Metcalfs for a while (maybe a few weeks?)
>and started sort of dating Linda.  He proposed marriage to her and I think
>she almost accepted, but then she turned him down at the last minute because
>she found out he was a con-man.  He claimed he wasn't conning her about
>being in love with her, but she kicked him out anyway.

>Hope that helps!


>Edie


Yes, I remember, its all coming back to me now.  I do remember the
episode where he was I think leaving town and had asked her to go
with him and she said "no".  That girl can never win!  I get the
articles about AMC mailed to me but I don't have access to the net
so I can't read the Homefront articles.

Stephanie Eggers - "Looking Forward to the new season of "Homefront""
steph@ivy.princeton.edu
Princeton University
Department of Electrical Engineering
From: maryb@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: DOOL: Vivian's motivation
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:04:12 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I read in one of the soap magazines at the time that Vivian appeared on DOOL
that part of the motivation of the character is that she wanted her hands on as
much of the Alemain money as she could manage.  This would explain why she has
always told Lawrence that women are okay to play with, but not to marry.  It
also would explain why she hid Nicholas' existence from his parents.  As long
as there was no child, she didn't have to share.  Of course we've been through
the bit with the will when John found out that he was Forrest Alemain.  This
sort of explain why she went a little bit off kilter when she lost control of
Forrest's money.

I'm not sure that this makes a lot of sense, but that's what the article said. 
I think it was . . .  How long HAS Vivian been on the show?
From: pefv702@perv.pe.utexas.edu (Joanna L. Castillo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
Subject: Re: KL:  Character Poll/  REMINDER
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:38:01 GMT
Organization: UT Petroleum Engineering Dept.
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Sep 92 20:36:56 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d10

In article <1992Sep15.181339.28950@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Richard Gaines Jr.,
GAINES@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu writes:
>I forgot to vote for my favorite villians so here it is!!!!

Oh, you didn't forget anything...that was just Angela posting without
the aid of caffeine!  :-)

>Manny      2

Manny?????  Who's this?????

>Richard

Joanna.

| \____ ----- ____/           |  "Let's just be friends -- friends   |
|      ( o o )                |  who never talk or see each other."  |
|       \   /   Gus-ball!!    |      - David Letterman, 7-22-92      |
|        (_)  Hook 'em Horns! |           pefv702@perv.pe.utexas.edu |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv.soaps
From: kelsey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (chris kelsey)
Subject: Re: AMC: TAN Cats
Keywords: sans da claws
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:40:20 GMT

In article <lac9rgINNra3@male.EBay.Sun.COM> girl@slavery.EBay.Sun.COM (Mary Smith) writes:

>Is it true that they get lazy after being neutered?
>Any other words of wisdom?

Neutering doesn't make males (or females) lazy or fat!  but neutered males
are more susceptible to urinary blockages, which can be deadly.  it's not
terribly common, but it's not terribly unusual, either.  be on the lookout
for difficulty in urinating and GET TO A VET at the first signs.

To whoever fed their cat after the vet said no:  if you disobey pre-surgical
advice, you can kill your cat -- a cat that vomits under anesthetic can suffo-
cate or drown by getting stomach contents in the lungs.  if you disobey 
post-surgical advice, you can cause a cat a significant amount of pain if 
it starts vomiting after surgery; if there are abdominal stitches, they may
rupture or the wound may tear.  there's a reason the vet told you not to
feed the cat.  sometimes the doctor *is* right.

instead of declawing, learn to trim cat nails!  do so early and often so they
get used to it.  it's quick, easy, and almost negates the entire scratching
issue if you keep 'em trimmed.  (i agree with the no-declaw camp, both for
medical and cat-safety reasons.  so do many vets.)

to save your couches:  try natural wood scratching posts -- 2x4's do nicely.
the wood is a better scratching surface (what they'd scratch outside if
they got the chance!), seems to satisfy more than carpet or couches, and
does not encourage the cat to scratch on fabric.  my gang won't lay a claw
on cloth -- but the 4x4's are whittled down to 2x3's!

-- cgk