HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: behm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BEHM CHRISTOPHER JOSEPH)
Subject: Top bicycle inovation of all time!!!!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:40:18 GMT

		Jobst Brandt
					;^)

				John Mastrangelo
				ice@massive.its.bldrdoc.gov
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Table of Grades of Selected Roads in the Santa Cruz Mtns
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:20:01 GMT

Ken Lee writes:

> Most of you probably know this, but for those who don't, the *Roads to Ride*
> books have pretty accurate average grade figures for most popular bicycling
> roads in the bay area.  Yes, as Bruce states, the *Roads to Ride* average
> grades are somewhat lower than Ray Hosler's 100" grades.  Still, I think the
> 100" figures are interesting, if you know what they represent.

As far as I can tell, the gradients listed in that book are computed from
maps and do not represent actual gradients on sections of road.  The point
of measuring gradients on the ground was to verify what the steepest places
are.  The reason the rod is 100 inches long is that the ruler measures
gradient directly in percents which are in this case inches.  THe length
also improves resolution because the level is less critical than with a
shorter beam.

This gets back to the problem of the average gradients of the TdF routes
not representing the difficulty of the climb because it ignores locally
steep sections and descents within a climb, averaging it all into a
smooth number.  The average gradient for the entire TdF is zero since it
starts and ends at essentially the same elevation.  Nit pickers will note
that some stages end at high altitude and do not restart there.  Yes yes.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber frames (was OPINIONS: Trek 2100/2300..)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:32:59 GMT

>I have been watching this and some vaguely related threads for a
>while.  It seems to me that time has very little to do with it.  It is
>the overall feeling that I go for.  If it was just time then I would
>be shedding grams here and there (on the bike and myself), improving
>my aero componentry and position, ...
>I ride because I enjoy the feeling.  Personally, I prefer highly
>responsive bikes (good fast cornering, acceleration...).  I don't NEED
>one. but I like riding them.  Purely for example, lets assume that
>So, maybe I go out and buy rims that are 30 grams lighter .  Then I
>tell rec.bicycles about it and get scoffs and jeers because I also
>happen mention that I like to eat a 60 gram Snickers bar before I go
>riding.  "You've just negated your $100 rim extravaganza" they laugh.
>So, to all the people who laugh at others who equip themselves and
>their bikes the way they want to, get a life.  If whup whup whup makes
>me feel like pushing harder why not?  
Well said.  Maybe these people are jealous or something.  If it feels good 
then do it.
-Terry


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dkw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Wittenberg)
Subject: Re: Recumbents-tell me about 'em
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:14:19 GMT


Recumbent vendors and prices are covered in the FAQ.  It may be a
little out of date, but probably not badly so. 

I commute on mine, and my commute has varied from 10-20 miles each
way.  So far I have 3 or 4 thousand miles on it.

Good points:  Much more comfortable than a diamond bike.  I got it
because I was concerned with repetitive stress injuries to my hands,
so I wanted to get all the weight off my hands when I rode.  The
recumbent acomplished this. The first thing I noticed was the sky.  I
had never been able to see anything above the trees while bicycling
before.  I now have no problems with a sore neck, back, hands, or
buttocks, all of which got sore at least occasionally on a diamond
framed bike.
I like being able to lood around more (I never was one to stare at my
front wheel.)

Bad points:  I have a long wheelbase recumbent, and it's longer than
diamond framed bikes, so it can be a nuisance getting it in and out of
the house, up stairs and so on.  I had to slightly modify my car's
roof rack to handle the recumbent.  Recumbents are mainly custom, so
there are no inexpensive recumbents yet, but they cost is quite
reasonable for a custom bike.

Other points:
Everyone asks about relative speeds.  They don't seem very different
from diamond bikes.  The recumbents are faster on flats and downhills
and slower on uphills.  Overall, they're about the same as diamond
bikes (with the same rider.)
Visibility on the road:  Many people worry that the lower recumbent
will be less visible.  I find that drivers give me more room when I'm
on my recumbent than they did when I rode a diamond framed bike.  My
bright orange helmet and orange flag 5 feet off the ground may help.
Instead of seeing over cars, my eyes are at about the same level as a
driver's. 
Wierdness factor:  Recumbents almost always draw a crowd.  You'll have
to decide if this is good or bad.  Lots of people in town know me only
because of my bike.  (These are not bicyclists, just people who see me
go by most days.)
Safety:  There is no statistical evidence that I know of.  (Nobody
seems to keep any kind of good records about bicycle safety.)  Some
anecdotal evidence suggests that recumbents may be safer than diamond
bikes in collisions because the rider hits feet first rather than head
first over the handlebars.
Maintenance:  Most recumbents (including mine) use standard parts for
almost everything.  The only parts on my bike that aren't very
standard are the wheels (20", which are used on kids bikes and on
trailers), and the long chain, which is just two standard chains end
to end.  Any bike shop has all the parts I'm likely to need in an
emergency. 

--David Wittenberg
dkw@cs.brandeis.edu       (formerly wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com)
From: jmyers@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jonathan E Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Top 5 bike inovations
Keywords: My top 5
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:07:12 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

Here is my top 5 list.

1) MTB suspension.
     This has made the largest change in riding for me.  I no longer feel like
     I have been beat up after every bumpy downhill.  It makes MTB riding much
     more comfortable and enjoyable.

2) "Clipless" pedals.
     Once again the comfort level is far above the classic cleats and straps.  

3) Index Shifting.
     One technical MTB ride without index shifting reminds me how nice it is to
     be able to find the right gear fast.  Also, one quick jump in a road race
     reminds me how nice it is to get the right gear fast.

4) Lightweight and good looking helmets.
     It is nice have helmets that don't look like you are going to a football 
     game or the set of Star Wars (or any other Sci Fi movie).  It is also nice
     to feel like you don't even have one on.

5) Washable synthetic gloves.
     I have many pairs of stiff, stinky, and cracked leather gloves that bleed
     color all over my hands every time they get wet.



				Jon Myers 
From: budn@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Bud Noren)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:37:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Tailwind and the Andrew Hurrican
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry) writes:

>Well, as a REAL (tm) cyclist, Houston Branch, could have certified,
>hurricanes aren't much good for tail winds since they blow in a
>circular, counterclockwise direction.  So, according to Jobst wind
>charts, a bikeaholic indulging a fetish would get no benefit from the
>wind in a hurricane 94.79 percent of the time.

This looks like the best of all possible worlds!  You leave your garage
and plan your route so you have the wicked tailwind for the whole loop!
Then you get off your bike, check to make sure that your computer can
register triple digit average speeds and put your bike back in the 
garage.  If it's still there.

-Bud
From: ddozier@daled.net.com (Dale Dozier)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Best Route From Fremont to Cambell
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:30:47 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies



I was interested in riding from Fremont to Cambell on labor
day and was wondering what would be the best route without taking
the bridge. I have seen some mail on the route to 237 but which 
roads should I take to get to 237? 

Thanks
-Dale

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: MTB news group
Followup-To: news.groups
Summary: wrong group
Keywords: news.groups
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:15:07 GMT

Please remove this discussion to news.groups and keep it there.
Thanks

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Wearing street shoes on clipless pedals
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:48:54 GMT

In <497@arrl.org> rhealy@arrl.org (Rus Healy, NJ2L) writes:
>In rec.bicycles.misc, cwright@tensor4.WPI.EDU (Charles R Wright) writes:

>>Funny this discussion about a better name for those pedals we now call
>>"clipless".  I always feel a little foolish having to explain why
>>they're called that, and yet the shoes just "clip" right in...

>I agree. It's awkward.

Judging by the cheap prices on toe straps at lost of shops
these days, maybe "strapless" makes more sense than
"clipless," since none of the step-in-binding style pedals
use straps as far as I can tell.  (Meanwhile, I get great
deals on high-quality leather toestraps for my commuting
pedals.  Found some Bindas for $1 per pair a while back.)

>>What are they called? Where can I get them?

>At least two kinds are available: Winwood Pedal Inserts (around
>$20 from Performance) and another that's advertised in Triathlete
>and Triathlon Times, which sells for around $70. I believe that
>the product name has the word *Transition* in it (oddly enough :').

These are also in Performance, on a different page, of
course.  (Page 46 of the Summer catalog, along with disk
and aerospoke wheels, integrated brake & shift levers,
etc.)  Performance wants $79.95 for them.  The catalog
lists them as Thompson Timeless Transition Adaptors.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Info on Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C0D1DA02014333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 26 Aug 92 11:14:50 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:15:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.225029.12974@unislc.uucp> Michael Thompson,
miket@unislc.uucp writes:
>That's confusing. I have occasional numbness in the left hand while
riding 
>which goes away with repositioning my hand.  However, the random pain I 
>experience is in my right arm but I've never felt this while riding.  

OK, I found the article.  The following excerpts are from an article in
the Fitness Q&A
section of the July 1992 issue of Bicycling Magazine.  If anything
included here is contrary
to my previous post, I apologize.

	Symptoms include pain, tingling, a "pins-and-needles" feeling, numbness,
and weakness.
	Pain may occur in the wrist and hand or travel toward the elbow. 
Occaisionally the whole
	arm may ache.  The discomfort from CTS is frequently worse at night or
the day after 
	overuse.
 
	In cyclists, there are four factors that can contribute to the problem:
	 
	1. Extended saddle time.
	In the early '80's, ultramarathoners frequently suffered from this
condition.  ...the 
	forearm-supporting aero bar introduced in the mid-'80s changed all this.
 ...But he 
	(John Howard) says he still comes across cyclists with CTS in training
seminars. Usually 
	they're long-distance recreational riders with poor bike fit."
	 
	 2. Rough Terrain.
	 ...front suspension can help absorb the bouncing.  Also, use padded
gloves to decrease 
	 vibration and shock.
	 
	 3. Improper wrist position.
	 Bending the wrists excessively during cycling can lead to CTS.  This
may happen when
	 riding the brake hoods of a handlebar that's too wide.  Generally, the
bar's width
	 should equal your shoulder width.  It's OK to stay on the hoods, but do
it with your
	 grip and wrists relaxed.
	 
	 An aero bar can be a solution, if it's long enough for the wrists to be
straight and
	 relaxed.
	 
	 4. Too much pressure.
	 Improper bike fit leads to incorrect weight distribution which puts
added pressure on
	 the wrists.  ...some reports indicate that cyclists have more problems
in their
	 nondominant hand.  Right-handed riders use that hand to shift, drink...
 The left
	 hand remains on the bar longer...To combat this, vary your hand
position and consciously
	 give each an occaisional rest.
	 
This is written by Arnie Baker, MD.  He goes on for another paragraph or
two to talk about
CTS in general.

STAUFFER
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Table of Grades of Selected Roads in the Santa Cruz Mtns.
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:09:27 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <t5dny9.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <l9sunhINNjh7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>>>When combined with the high altitude, NOTHING beats Sonora Pass with
>>>18% at the Window, and 15-17 percent at the Golden Stairs (between
>>>8000 and 9000 ft marker) in the Sierra Nevada for difficulty on
>>>paved public roads.
>>
>>>hosler_ray#post@tandem.com
>>
>>Even considering the altitude, I think Skagg's Springs/Stewart's
>>Point Road in northern Sonoma County, California is a more difficult
>>paved road than the aformentioned west side of Sonora Pass
>>(which ranks #2 or #3).  It is also, just as beautiful.  Don't
>>miss this one, especially on a nice, hot summer day!
>>
>Not that I'm foolish enough to try, but our two death ride
>finishers from this year tried riding to Virginia City and
>claimed that the hill up to Virginia City was the hardest
>they had tried.
>>

Heh, heh, you have really got to be kidding!!!!

These guys have obviously never ridden Skaggs Springs, Old Priest
Grade or the west side of Sonora Pass!

Bruce

ps - finishing the Death Ride does not give any credibility to
road steepness claims.  The climbs on the "Death Ride"(an oxymoron,
kind of like Military Intelligence) are not very steep and would
not even make it in the top 20 of NorCal climbs.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,cu.general,boulder.general
From: baileyc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Christopher R. Bailey)
Subject: New MTN and Road bike parts and shoes for sale
Keywords: Look shoes and pedals (ATB and Road), Scott fork
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:19:00 GMT


I have the following for sale:

	- Brand new, in the box, Scott World Championship Unishock forks
		Medium steerer size (~180mm?) - $175, $200 installed.

	- Look AP186 Road Shoes.  These have Laces! and velco, carbon sole.
		Colors are mostly grey, with red, yellow, blue rear area.
		These sell for $119 at Colorado Cyclist (mail order), I'd like $100
		Size 47.  These are brand new, in the box.

	- Look MX90 MTB Shoes, size 9 US.  Looks mountain bike shoe.  New, in
		the box.  Would like to sell with pedals below.

	- 2 Pair of Look MP90/92 MTB Pedals.  One used pair, one new.  These
		are the Pro Elite pedals, they are barely available in stores  (well,
		I have never seen any in any stores).  They are 20g lighter than
		Shimano SPD's, handle mud a lot better, and are more positive to
		click in and out of.  

	Make me an offer for the last two items.  The combo is worth somewhere
	between $200-$250 retail, however, the pedals are hard to get.  The
	regular version (non Pro Elite) are basically the same, but heavier.


	If interested, send me some email...

-- 
Christopher Bailey :: University of Colorado at Boulder :: CSCI & OPMG
Internet: baileyc@spot.colorado.edu    CompuServe: 70403,1522
RIDE FAST, TAKE CHANCES!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: Re: Campy dt shifter problem
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:11:57 GMT

From article <1992Aug31.202455.7887@mercury.unt.edu>, by jackson@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce Jackson):
> were torqued down very tight.  Even the most die-hard Campi fans started
> using other shifters.  With the C record groupo Campi intrduced the
> retro-friction shifters that were strong enough to not slip yet were still
> easy to move.  The idea seems to come from a shifter from Stronglight that
> used the same principal.

Actually, I think it was Simplex, not Stronglight.  Mavic used them in their
old SSC line.  Real nice shifters, too...


Dave
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Hubs built for straight spokes
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:49:06 GMT

Tom Kunich writes:

> I'll probably try them for my next road bike. Mountain bikes don't
> break spokes if you're running good wheels.

Now this is a novel idea.  Am I to assume that spokes only break on
road bikes, from this statement.  I would like to hear more on this.
Why are MTB wheels less subject to failures and what causes them in
one kind of wheel and not another?

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.backcountry,rec.bicycles.rides
From: hlk5268@ultb.isc.rit.edu (H.L. King )
Subject: MTB's in the ADK's
Followup-To: poster
Originator: hlk5268@ultb
Keywords: Biking, Mountains
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:51:15 GMT



Howdy folks,
	I made an inquiry about taking mountain bikes into the Adirondaks
recently and now having completed the trip, I'm summarizing my
experience and what information I was able to gather.  
	The e-mail responses ranged from "Hey, go wherever you want, I did"
to "You can't get there from here"  However, a phone call to the horses
mouth (as it were) provided some valuable information.

Very Helpful:		Saranac Lake Chamber of Commerce (518) 891-1990

These folks sent me some maps & recommended rides on horse & snowmobile
trails and just sounded generally psyched to help.

Marginally Helpful:		Ray Brooke DEC (518) 891 1370

DEC was unable/unwilling to provide direct information about anything
other than specific rides (which didn't get to where we wanted to go)
but did sent us a copy of an article from Adirondak Life which mentioned
mountain biking and some areas we were interested in.

Recommended but not called:  High Peaks Cyclery

	What we actually did was enter the horse trails off of Rt. 3 and
attempted to reach Duck Hole or Moose Pond.  This was one of 2 areas we
had spotted where we could get within a couple of miles of any of the
46r's (we were planning to climb Seymour) for a day hike on day 2.  
	Unfortunately, the trail proved to be entirely too challenging for my 
companion (recently introduced to mountain biking) as it was rocky and had
several 20 foot patches of 8" deep mud within the 1st 1/3 mile.  What we did 
do was try another horse trail which headed toward Racquette Falls & Shattuck.  
	This was OK most of the time, but did become challenging from time to time 
due to 3" deep sand sections.  At any rate we just found a clearing eventually 
and camped for the night.  The next day, we biked back out, camped by a
small pond (Rock(hopper :-) Pond) and drove up to Ampersand for our day hike.  

Anyway, it was still a fun long weekend even though we didn't accomplish
our original plan, I'm convinced it was doable (the DEC guy and the
Ranger we talked to at the trailhead said they'd done it the previous
summer)  

Thanks again to everyone who responded.
Heidi
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Correct seat height summary
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C0D350CC024333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 26 Aug 92 11:21:04 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:21:41 GMT

In article <9208242256.AA17796@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> , ericp@VNET.IBM.COM
writes:
>Art, one of the bike mags recently had a statement on this from B.
Hinault.
>He uses 1.09 times inseam for the heigth from the saddle to the center
>of the pedal with the cranks parallel to the seat tube. It may be

probably close to the .883 rule with 175mm cranks (or whatever the
standard length is).

Davis Phinney's book on training has different suggestions.  He goes for
the heel on
pedal method with varying distances from just grazing the pedal to 1mm or
more above
the pedal depending on the type of riding.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: somerville@BAEPV4.NCSU.EDU (SOMERVILLE)
Subject: Re: Wheel truing I need advice
Reply-To: somerville@BAEPV4.NCSU.EDU (SOMERVILLE)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:14:04 GMT

In article <9209011719.AA20875@hplomg.hpl.hp.com>, BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
  [Question about truing wheels deleted]
>
>
>There is a book on this that describes these operations in minute
>detail with diagrams.  I am paraphrasing here but you could get this
>book "the Bicycle Wheel" at your local bike shop and be privy to all
>the fine details that possibly even your bike shop mechanics don't know
>since many of these are self taught in the art.
>
>Go to it.  Build wheels and ride bike!
>


I have hopes of obtaining all the equipment I need to build my first
wheel by the end of Christmass day.  I have heard many success stories
on rec.bicycles, by which I mean that people go out and get Jobst's
book and build wheels that do not break and stay true.

Why then is it so hard to find a shop that can build or repair a wheel???
After experiencing a nipple pull through using an Araya (anodized) rim,
I took my rear wheel to the best (racer oriented) store in town.
They convinced me that they could just reuse the spokes and get me
a new rim.  What I got back was a perfectly true wheel -- with one
totally loose spoke.  Months later, I have a f**ked up wheel that I
cannot keep true if my life depended on it.

This is the story of my life -- every stock bike I ever bought had
wheels that pinged and panged themeselves into oblivion on the first
ride (and I'm light too).  I really hope that after careful study of
THE BOOK, I can build myself a reliable wheel -- that would be a 
really nice change for me!

BTW, is anyone else *not* getting the new groups? I can't believe it,
we get the entire alt.sex heirarchy, but I have to fight to get
rec.bicycles.*  I hope I win!

--
Garth Somerville
somerville@bae.ncsu.edu 
From: allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:19:53 GMT
Subject: Road Rides in Nevada City?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

I plan to be in the Nevada City, CA area for the beginning of Labor Day
weekend. I'd like to do some road riding in the area to check out how
good the road riding is there. I've got a AAA map of the Tahoe area,
which shows a lot of roads, but I don't know which of them are paved and
which aren't. Are there any locals who could recommend some good road
rides for me? I'm planning to do rides of up to 60 miles in length. Any
difficulty is ok. Other information about cycling in Nevada City would
be welcome such as cycling clubs and teams and if there are any club or
team rides scheduled this weekend.

Thanks,

Allan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: Wearing street shoes on clipless pedals
Organization: Motorola
Date: 25 Aug 1992 12:24:25 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------