HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: liang@cs.scarolina.edu (Da Dong Liang)
Subject: Re: ABC kids!
Keywords: Caucasian vs Asian-American
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:00:41 GMT

chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Chou) writes:

>Asian Americans are Americans; their parents or grandparents
>immigrated to America, so they were expected to make adjustments
>and adapt to a new society.  On the other hand, the peope in
>Taiwan lived in their homeland for hundreds of years.  They
>did not immigrate to a new land.  Why are their languages
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^
I would like to suggest you use dialects rather than languages when
you (and many others on this newsgroup) come to talk about Taiwanese
dialect (or Ming3 Nan2 Hua4) which is also spoken by people in southern
Fujian. Foreigners will get confused when you talk about Chinese languageS.
Then how many languages are there in Taiwan? 2k probably if you count
all the dialects. 

Politically, Native Tanwanese should be those minorities who were driven to 
the mountains years ago. The so called BSR are the descendents of the  
immigrants from Fujian. And WSR are, in this sense, the new immigrants.
This situation is quite similar to US.

I don't know if KMT really attempted to eliminate Taiwanese dialects. 
If so, that is definitely wrong. But the official spoken dialect (Mandarin) of 
ROC was enacted back in 1910s(?) by the National Parlirmentary. And
after WWII Taiwan was returned to ROC. So it is legitimate to 
use Mangarin in school and office while you can speak other dialects at home.
In fact, WSR also spoke their dialects. And not surprising, their
second generation can only speak Mandarin. If BSR can complain about their
dialect, so do those WSR. This, again, is similar to those old immigrants from
Germany, Italy, Greece, etc., and the new immigrants from China, Korea, Russia,
Vietnam, etc., in the States who have to learn and use English in school and
office while speak their native tongues at home.

>forced to die?  Is someone trying to change the Taiwanese
>identity to something artificial (the model Chinese citizen for
>the entire China to emulate)?

Can we say that Taiwan is a melting-pot? I can't see anything wrong to be a
melting-pot. 

>Pai

I have been puzzled for a long time by the word 'Taiwanese'. Some people
refer it to BSR who speak Ming Nan Hua, while others refer it to ROC 
citizen (especially American media). If it's former, then how to define
those native Taiwanese (Gao1 Shan1 Zhu2)? Or it might be practically used to
distinguish those who immigrated to the Island before and after WWII (or
more precisely, 1949)? Very confusing!

Any sincere discussions are welcome. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:42:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.001636.14987@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>I hope people from Taiwan do not consider this as a "defeat", do not have any
>bitternese.  Taiwan has 20 million population and mainland has 1.1 billion.
>For the sake of fairness, Taiwan should not compete in internaional arena
>with mainland politically, otherwise other nations will take advantage
>of the division across the Strait. Taiwan achieved great deal economically, 
>is admired by most of Chinese in mainland, does not have a need to seek
>recognition of her achievement through competetion with mainland in
>international politics. 

I totally agree that Taiwan should not compete in international arena
with China for the representation of China.  South Korea has every right
to recognize the true representative of China which has modernized China
through iron fist.  Taiwan's government should give up all claims over
any territory on Asia Contenant and claim only those it can
administrate effectively.  Taiwan should use her very beautiful name to
apply for the membership in the UN so her residence can assume
responsibilities and rights of our global society.  Taiwan should
concentrate on EC rather than 3rd World states and use Western
technology to balance the Japanese dominance in East Asia.  Utilizing
cheap labor in response to the Japanese technological advantage will
just be a modern boxing riot.  If St. Marino, a landlocked Italian
speaking state surrounded by Italian territory can join the UN, why
should Taiwan exile herself from the global community along with the
expelled ROC?

TY Huang
From: stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Telecommunication in Taiwan
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:09:18 GMT
Organization: UB


Some netters suggest me to post this article because they think it is
informative for us to know Taiwan's Telecomm.
 
I was with Telecommunication lab ( Bureau of Telecommunication ).  in Taiwan
three years ago.  It was a project of development of ISDN PAX according to
CCITT ISDN standard ( Blue Book ).  But I left two years ago.  At that time,
the project had not finished yet.  And I have had NO INFORMATION about the
project since I came to US two years ago.  It is a big project that ERSO( ???
), III( Institute for Information Industry), and Telecomm.  lab work together.
And there are eight private companies ( GTE Taiwan Branch, Taiwan Telcomm
Company, Chi-Yeh Electronics, Sun Moon,...  etc) join the project to get
know-how.
 
 
---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu
      Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo
From: gt2768b@prism.gatech.EDU (JENGLUNG LIN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Don't ride MARTA (Atlanta)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:34:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Since Olympic 1996 in coming to Atlanta, the rapid rail system -MARTA decides
to use multiple languages to guide tourists. The languages include Japanese,
Korean, but NO Chinese.

Chinese is not less than Japanese or Korean in population. I think MARTA is
just discriminating against Chinese.

Let's show this to them - DO NOT RIDE MARTA until the situation changes.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: (none)
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:43:28 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin


In article <9208181834.AA18082@abacus.hut.fi>, pan@abacus.hut.fi (Huachen Pan) writes:
> 2. Why so many non-mainlanders have mastered the mainland Ping1Ying1 ?

Excuse me.... :-) :-) :-)

It's "pin1yin1" :-) :-) :-) 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:11784 soc.culture.japan:6637
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Zen Story (21)
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:52:29 GMT
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada
In-reply-to: ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca's message of 9 Aug 92 03:46:24 GMT

Thanks to Paul for the story, and here is another that comes by way of
David Reynolds' books:

There once was a Roshi who was making a lecture tour of American
universities. At a reception after one lecture, a journalist approach
the Roshi and asked, "Is Satori the identification with Oneness?"

The Roshi replied, "I know nothing of Satori or Oneness.  I only know
how to pull up weeds by their roots and how to answer questions like
yours!" 

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - Gary.Murphy@software.mitel.COM - (613) 592-2122 x3709
           It is never too late to have a happy adulthood
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12096 soc.culture.japan:6942
From: tobac@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP (Bach Frederic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Zen Story (22)
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:04:55 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: UBS Phillips & Drew Int'l Ltd., Tokyo

In article <1992Aug15.112311.3620@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) asks:

	** Is there any "modern" Zen story?

The modern Zen story is the one you read on your VTR. Isn't that modern enough?


-- 
 *  __  _  *    Fred "I'll be" Bach  (tobac@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP (Bach Frederic))
 * ||_ /_| *                                             (Tel. : 813-3597-1595)
 * || /__| *    Arnold, who are you going to be when you grow up ? I'll be Bach
 *         *                Je suis athee, Dieu merci. -B. Bach
From: Doug.Schiffer@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Big 5 Coding
Date: 16 Aug 92 13:16:00 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.01 Jul 13 1992

I'm trying to find out information on the most popular code sets used to
represent Chinese characters.  I've heard about a code called "Big 5",
and I'm trying to find out more about it. In particular,

  1. How many characters can it represent? [the more the better]

  2. Where is this standard used?  (Taiwan?  ROC? Other?)

  3. Where can I find a font file for it?

  4. What software uses this standard?

PS:  I have information on GuoBiao and CCCII, two other Chinese
standards.  I'd be happy to share information on them with anyone.

Thanks.
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:Bodhisattva, Would you take me by the hand?

--- Maximus 2.00
From: jack@eecs.nwu.edu (Kuo-Feng Liao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: comments on NW air-line...
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:01:59 GMT
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University

(I hope this is fine in this group, though it's related to traveling)

Can someone who fly Northwest airline recently (accross Pacific) give your 
comment on them ?  I heard (from rec.travel.air) they improved a lot. 
Is that true for cross-Pacific flight ?    

-- 
Kuo-Feng Liao
Northwestern University, Dept. of EECS
jack@eecs.nwu.edu
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BANANAS (was Re: Thanks, buddy!)
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:12:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1992Aug13.211227.8515
Organization: AT&T

In article <92226.095658U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> <U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>Three answers :
>
>  (1) I agree there should be no personal attack here in the netnews.
>Personal attacks, however, occur only when the attacker is aware of the
>personal information of the attackee, and makes attacks based on that.

	I don't think too many people will buy this definition of personal
	attack. One simple example, what do you think it is if one says
	bad things about your family in the post even when s/he does not
	know you personally? How about second quessing one's motivation
	in order to degrade different opinions (which happens very often)?

	How about the following?

	"you have a funny attitude..."
	"you (your favoriate group/race) are a bunch of ***"

	I certainly feel insulted when people reply my posting with those
	phrases even though you may not.

>  (2) Netnews is a system in which people express or exchange their own
>...
>here, but just the "opinions".

	Well, free speech does not equal to not taking responsibilities
	for what you say. I am sure the organization you come from have
	certain policies and guidelines about how you should use the
	netnews; i.e, it is not free even though you may not get caught
	often or cost $$$.

Yung-Kao Hsu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: gli@ces.cwru.edu (Gwangpeng Li)
Subject: Desperately Seeking Yen-Wen Chen
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 16:14:00 GMT


              ---/ --|--   ---|--|---        |
               |\  +-|-+   -| +--+ |-   -----+------
               | \ |-|-|    | |  | |       \   /
               |/  +-|-+   -/ +--+ `-'      / \  
               |  / \| \_  /   | |  \_    /     \__

    Hello, out there, does anyone know where Yen-Wen Chen, from
National Taiwan University, Chemistry Department, is now?  My friend
Shi-Ming Chang is desperately looking for her!  Yen-Wen Chen was
supposed to study at U. of Michigan a few years ago.

    Any information will be appreaciated!

Gwangpeng Li
-- 
Gwangpeng Li,     computer engg, case western reserve u., cleveland, oh 44106
                  gli@alpha.ces.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Taipei has terminated the diplomatic relationships between ROC and S. Korea.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 06:36:52 GMT

They say that following up on your own post is a sign of insecurity. :-)

In article <1992Aug23.063426.12640@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>2.	All Korean Airline flights would become unwelcome in Taiwanese
>	airspace (save in cases of emergency, I suppose, as per international
>	protocol).  China Airlines and Chang Ron (sp) would terminate their
>	flights to Korea by the 16th of September, when Korean Airlines
>	flights would also be terminated.

I just remembered that if the airline uses the same English name as its parent
(shipping) company, then the airline should be called Evergreen.
From: andym@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Help with .tw addresses
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:16:15 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Greetings to all in Taiwantalk!!

I am desperate need of assistance with .tw net addresses, although I think 
this is a FAQ....  If anyone has a list of net addresses in Taiwan 
(particularly Taipei), Please forward it to me....

Thanks for your help.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: BANANAS (was Re: Thanks, buddy!)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:37:34 GMT

In article <92225.093731U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> <U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>A lot of Japanese were not born during the World War II, either. Why
>are we asking them to be responsible for the Nanking massacre ?

	I cannot understand how any reasonable person would hold Japanese 
	today responsible for the Naking massacre. But I sure think Japanese
	should be held responsible for how they `interprete' that particular
	history. The key is to heal the old wound and misunderstanding.

	I think that is where you confuse others with you strong statement
	coming out of 228. Well, if you think they means the same thing 
	then forgive my nonsense.

Yung-Kao Hsu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: lmh@MIT.Edu (Minghsun Liu)
Subject: Re: Yes, Let's Not Talk about History (Was: Re: BANANAS)
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science
	<1992Aug12.042909.13098@news.columbia.edu>
	<LMH.92Aug12071821@lister.lcs.mit.edu>
	<1992Aug12.154312.21920@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Aug12.200212.22861@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:21:39 GMT


My post wasn't directed specifically at anyone.  I was just alarmed
and disturbed by the direction I see this thread is developing.

I think I am coming from a different perspective than Mr. Charles Wang
and many netters in this group and my cooments could be interpreted as
being outlandish.  Where I am coming from is this: those who died in
6.4 2.28 or any other political oppression had a dream about how they
want to make their worlds.  Their death can inspire many but the
inevitable fact is they are all dead.  They are not the ones who will
be living in today and tomorrow's society.  It's us and those whoare
yet to arrive at this world.  Our responsibility lies, not to those
who are dead, but those whoa re still living and who will come to
life.  Unfortunately perhaps, death can often inspire more emotions.  

Yes, I agree whole heartedly that lessons should be learned....but I
very much doubt if the thread was going in the right direction.

- Minghsun Liu
  lmh@medg.lcs.mit.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Taiwan Embassies
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:20:27 GMT

In article <RgeuPB3w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield) writes:
>Just curious... does Taiwan have trade missions in a lot of countries 
>that do not "officially" recognize ROC but PRC?  I know that in some 
>places, countries that have the problem have others take care of things 
>(I believe Belgium handles affairs for Israel in some countries, and I 
>think there's a Taiwan Trade Delegation in the US). Upon reading the post 
>about termination of times beteen the ROK & ROC, I was wondering if ROC 
>will keep some sort of official presence (trade mission, what have you) 
>in Korea, or just get out. What is the norm in countries where Taiwan is 
>not the officially recognized China?

There is usually an establishment that serves as an embassy in all aspects
except in name.  The director's political clout (in Taiwan) is as great, and,
in the cases of the directors of those institutions in the United States and
Japan, for example, greater than most "embassadors."  The mission is *not*
only about trade, but handles most of the affairs run by embassies as well.
In the United States, the Taiwanese mission is call the Coordination Council
of North American Affairs.  (What a stupid name.  The Taiwanese government has
talked about unifying the names of these missions to foreign countries; they
currently have various different names.)
From: claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:43:08 GMT
	<1992Aug21.001636.14987@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Organization: Matsushita Electric Works Ltd., Tokyo, Japan.

>2. Terminate all coorperations with Taiwan.
>3. Mainland will inherit Taiwan embassy property (I heard it is located
>   the most expensive section of Seoul and worth billions of US dollars)
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                            ============================

Don't you think this is exagerate??!? Was it an embassy or an entire city?
:-)
--
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Claude Huss          | Matsushita Electric Works, Ltd. Tokyo Research Labs.|
| Networking Engineer  | Mita 5-13-2, Minato-Ku, Tokyo 108, JAPAN            |
|                      | Phone: +81-3-3452-4941 Fax: +81-3-3451-0793         |
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Disclaimer:"Any comments for my company > /dev/null"                       |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
             Gaijin Touroku Card: Don't leave home without it!
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Puzzle( Joke... )
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:54:19 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

>[]Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! Surprise!!!!!!
>[]I think I let you have a very dirty and wrong thinking, haven't you??????
>[]Do you like this Answer??????? " Dog!!!! "
>[]Anyway!!!! This is only a Joking!!!!!
>[]
>[]Chin-Yu TSAI
>[]c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk

Wa! The sense of humour for people in UK is kind of special here !
Have a nice day !
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai)
Subject: Re: Telecommunication in Taiwan
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:30:25 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.142922.26456@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu) writes...
>Does anyone know about this?  Last year I read from WJ that Chin Hwa had
>fiber installed in compus.  From the discription I would say it's FDDI.

My lower classmate at NCTU told me that they have FDDI for the entire campus
networking, including their dormitories.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BANANAS
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:44:33 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

An amusing point, which hopefully will keep this thread from
degenerating into yet another mindless political flame war.

Isn't it kind of interesting that a lot of the posters on this thread
(myself included) grew up in the United States?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

I suspect the reason for this is that anyone growing up the in United
States has to deal with issues of identity more so than someone
growing up in the "motherland," and so tends to get more defensive
when the issue of identity is brought up.

I suspect that most everyone in Taiwan (and on soc.culture.taiwan) is
bored to death with arguing about the issue and are more or less satisfied
with the concept of "Taiwan is whatever is, and let's not change it too
much for now."

--------------

On to a another topic.  Any one have any thoughts on bookstores in
Taipei?  (Oh, and I finally got the address of a place in the Austin
area which sells you-tiao.)
From: parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Parimal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: * Oneway ticket to Austin/Houston from Newark, NJ for SALE *
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:38:27 GMT
Reply-To: parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Parimal)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: parimal@dewey.cc.utexas.edu

I have two oneway  airtickets for sale from Newark, NJ to Austin, TX.

Tickets are on Continental Airlines for 25th & 31st of August, changeable at

$25. If you don't have luggage to check-in, these could be used for one

way travel to Houston also. Asking $75 each or best offer.

Call (512) 476-7134. E-mail : parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 

			      parimal@alpha.iat.utexas.edu
From: eaeu154@orion.oac.uci.edu (Jeremy Ho)
Subject: Re: Did you say...?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: SNES, Street Fighter II
Date: 19 Aug 92 07:15:36 GMT

In article <20758@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou ~{E7OHIz~}) writes:
>Did anybody notice what Chun Li says when she does her spinning kick?
>It's "Chiang Kai Shek"!
>
>A friend of mine noticed it and I thought it was pretty interesting...
>
>Brandon
>
No...it's Ding-Dong kick....
what are you trying to stir up a political whirlwind here with
Street Fighter II, come one, get serious....

Roger.
From: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Mainland Fever Hits the Island
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:08:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <1992Aug17.220233.7200@corwin.barra.com> stevek@corwin.barra.com (Stephen Ko) writes:
>Taiwan's foreign reserve has hit the highest among all the nations, and 
>Taiwan has large number of foreign direct investment.  However, the ruling
>political party of Taiwan refuses to allow Taiwan business man to invest
>in mainland China, fearing that, "becoming dependent on China will subject
>political pressure from Beijing".

I can see how the Taiwanese government might have this fear.
However, I would imagine that the majority of the Taiwanese
labor force would also be against investment in China, because
mainland China provides a much cheaper labor force.  America
has the same problem, that's why we're urged to "Buy American."

I was in Taiwan recently, and I spoke to some of my friends and
cousins there who are in the computer business (programmers).
They say that they are "keeping an eye on China" because software
developers can pay mainland Chinese programmers a comparatively
low wage, and they would "work like dogs for them."  I imagine
that other Taiwanese, especially the unskilled labor force, would
have the same sentiments.

The investors, of course, would want to invest in China for
precisely the same reason.  That's how free economy should work,
but the standards of living in China right now is so low that
many people fear having unregulated investments in China might
devastate Taiwan's internal economy.

Perhaps an trained economist reading this group would like to
comment on this subject?

				- David

-- 
---==lulu@ucrengr==---  just another overworked graduate student.
David T Lu, Amateur Thinker: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu, {ucsd, uci}!ucrengr!lulu
"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
					- Arthur Dent, Hitchhiker's
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan