HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: L.L. Bean & Linda Bean
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:13:32 GMT
Organization: New York University

There was a recent posting on GayNet about Linda Bean.  She is running 
for Congress  in southern Maine and is very anti-gay.  Her written 
materials accuse her opponent  of being in favor of "mandatory gay rights."  
As do all members of the Bean family, Linda has a seat on the board of 
directors.  While the company does have an anti-discrimination policy, 
it does not publicize it.

As a long time L.L. Bean buyer, I called customer service.  I was told 
that the company is officially non-political.  Nevertheless, I asked
them to remove my name from their mailing list and explained that I
did not wish to buy from a store where some of the profits would be used
to fund an anti-gay campaign.  The representative was very polite but
did not offer any official repudiation or explanation. If enough people
call up, perhaps L.L. Bean will be forced to publicly repudiate Linda's
positions.

Their customer service toll free number is 1-800-341-4341.

Emily Rizzo (hoping that Land's End is gay-friendly)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: batie@agora.rain.com (Alan Batie)
Subject: Domestic Partners in Multnomah County
Summary: Domestic partner health benefits on verge of approval
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:12:42 GMT

Just heard on the news that the Multnomah County employee's union
has approved a contract for health benefits for domestic partners,
where domestic partner is defined as:

  o Close personal relationship
  o Joint dependency
  o Living in same residence for 6 months

(roughly, it was only about a 15-second report, and I didn't have
time to take notes)

It goes before the county commission next week, which is expected to
approve it unanimously.
-- 
Alan Batie                               \
batie@agora.rain.com                      \       Vote NO on Discrimination
+1 503 452-0960                          / \      Vote NO on 9!
45 28 59 N / 122 43 20 W / 440' MSL     /   \
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What is "Sexual Orientation"?
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:38:00 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Sep11.010114.13168@resonex.com> michael@resonex.com  
(Michael Bryan) writes:
> In article <12237@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)  
writes:
> >In article <1992Sep9.145921.16689@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,  
berninge@iron.ecn.purdue.edu (James A Berninger) writes:
> ># the ordinance.  Several people (including a local lawyer) mentioned
> ># the "fact" that "sexual orientation" includes pedophilia,
> ># bestiality, and the like, and that inclusion of this phrase was
> ># unacceptable, unless the council defined the phrase more adequately.
> >
> >Amazing.  There are other people in America who can use a dictionary
> >to figure out what "sexual orientation" means.
> 
> Suppose the ordinance contained language which made it clear that
> "sexual orientation", as used in the ordinance, meant the common usage
> of the term as applied to gays, lesbians and bisexuals, that is,
> referred only to the different gender combinations (male and/or
> female) possible in intimate relationships.  Then would you be happy
> with the ordinance?  Or would you look for another nit to pick?

Better yet, why not restrict "discrimination" to actual antisocial acts?  
Gay sex is not antisocial, since it is consensual and doesn't affect  
anyone but the parties involved. I don't want to get into an argument on  
bestiality, but I know several bestialists who engage in consensual  
interspecies sex that is, again, not antisocial. Pedophiles, as we all  
know, are a matter of some contention, but surely a pedophile who does not  
engage in sex with minors is not antisocial; it is actions, not desires,  
which count.

So what if sexual orientation includes people who have lifelong  
relationships with melons? The orientation itself is never a matter of  
concern, and specific actions are only a concern if they cause harm.  
Discriminating on unimportant issues, be it opinions, desires,  
affiliations or the like, is simply unfair.

-Anthony Berno
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Subject: Re: Record trivia
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:16:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <y-vnnpg.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>Marilyn vos Savant's column in last week's paper (could that possibly be
>her last name?)  had a question about how many groves are on the side of a
>record.  I think her answer, which hasn't appeared yet, is going to be '1'.
>What record is a counterexample?

Monty Python's "Matching Tie and Handkerchief", of course!  (Motss
relevance:  Graham Chapman.)

>What record is a counterexample?  Blank records don't count. 

Even records with a blank side usually have a single, very widely
spaced spiral groove on that side.  I imagine this is in order to
handle the case where some dimwit stacks the record with the wrong side
up.

--Rich, whose walk has gotten rather a bit sillier lately
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: adoption
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 08:33:39 GMT

jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:

>pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele):
>> one of the points being that as an unmarried couple
>> living apart who were allowed to adopt children, a president is set that
>> should make it easier for gay people to adopt.

>i knew i liked bill clinton... :-)

Clinton? Ooh. I got Carter. Doesn't he look *swell*? Just had him done
today. He says it didn't hurt at all when they curled him. Amazing.
His eyes *did* water a lot when they put on the president-spray, but
he's recovered nicely. He's still really heavy, and none of my hats
fit over him, but that's the price you pay. And I got a free child, to
boot! I think next month I'm going to get a Lincoln; so retro...

--
John Dorrance  * Don't fuck with Ms. Congeniality *  thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

	Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders
	     what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Ry's Chicago business
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 06:38:41 GMT

Y'all have nothing on me.  Everyone on this earth with a pierced organ
must pay me royalties.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Xref: sparky soc.motss:38706 ba.motss:1567
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: "Out For The Count" Benefit 9/17
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:48:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com


A friend asks me to post this announcement.  There is some
relevance to people outside the SF Bay Area, so please read
on...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The Lavender Message Project cordially invites you to join
Supervisor Roberta Achtenberg for the San Francisco premiere
of...

                  "Out For The Count"

                                  (a film by Vivian Kleiman)

...in support of Bill Clinton For President.

Thursday September 17, 5:30 - 7:30 pm
at Crazy Eights, 579 Howard (@ 2nd Street)
No-Host Bar/Snacks -- Donor Option $10-$50

All proceeds support the Lavender Message Project in the
nationwide distribution of the film in the gay/lesbian
community.

For further information, contact Peter Fowler at 415/956-5050

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

My friend tells me that the Lavender Message Project started
in response to Bill Clinton's speech to a G/L/B audience in
West Hollywood some months back.  It's an effort to get the
L/G/B vote out to support Clinton in November -- especially
unregistered younger queers and those who don't normally
bother to vote.  The group is not affiliated with the
Clinton/Gore campaign, or with any other political group.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Sults)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: To Laura
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:57:08 GMT

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:


>(me)
>>AFFECTED BEHAVIOR IS NOT AN INHERENT PART OF THE PERSON'S NATURE.  
>>"Affected" means intentional, deliberate, with the intent of impressing
>>or showing off.  It's role-playing, pure and simple.

>/(pentangl)
>/Unless you can prove that nelly behaviour on the part of males is unnatural,
>/you really aren't getting anywhere.

>Behavior that has to be practiced is not natural.  Any behavior that is 
>natural comes without practice or forethought; it just happens.

But the nice "male" behaviour that you seem to espouse had to be
practiced.  We all grow up learning, and then practicing how to be
"male" and "female" in the way the dominant culture defines these things.

For example, my straight (as far as I know) brothers used to play dress-ups
with me when we were very young.  We did not stick to imposed gender roles.
The boys got to play at being queens and princesses, and I got to play
at being princes and kings.  Unfortunately soceity got a hold of them
and started teaching them how to be boys, grooming them for their future
position as men.  Then they started hanging my teddy-bears, pulling my
dolls eyes out etc..   And there was no way they were going to do anything
as pansy or puffter as playing dress-ups.  Since then they have had
plenty of time to practice being men.

Beats me why you think that being nelly is any more practiced or unnatural
than the rest of human behaviour.

Iseult.
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: advice sought: handling on-street harassment
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:11:34 EST
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Sep8.001130.6109@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, lfoard@Turing.ORG 
   (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
> I wish I knew where to find a good street preacher, I wonder what people
> would think of a bear dressed up in greek robes handing out tracts :-)

     Considering that my vacation buddies and I travelled over 2,200 miles
through the park lands & forests of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Sasketchewan, 
Alberta and British Columbia without sighting a single species of bear (other
than the bearded variety), I am sure that all of us would have appreciated
getting a tract map directly from a bear!

     We had no problems finding antelope, buffalo, chipmunks, deer, elk,
marmots, rabbit, porcupines, and squirrels, but not one bear.
   
-- 
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Mail Order Bookstore
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:04:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.123802.18240@midway.uchicago.edu> 
 jill@midway.uchicago.edu (Jill Hansen) writes:
>Well, I am going to be exiled to a part of the country without decent 
>bookstores, so I would *really* appreciate any names of mail order firms...

People Like Us Books does mail order.  (You *have* been to PLU, right?)
They're at 3321 N. Clark, Chicago (60657).

>...that specialize in bi and lesbian books (ever notice how few
>bi books there are -- never understood that).

Not enough of us writing/compiling them yet, though I know of several
in the works right now.

You could, of course, drop by a meeting of the U of C Bisexual Union
and talk bibliographies with us.  :)

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "The big question is how to turn bisexuality into vegetables, i.e.
   acceptable, beneficial, and popular in public eating places."
           -- John Clark (jclark@ucsd.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: 277-4653
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: dial arrangement in u.s.
Organization: earnestly practicing faggots
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:06:19 GMT

2 ABC
3 DEF
4 GHI
5 JKL
6 MNO
7 PRS
8 TUV
9 WXY

*no* letters for 0 or 1, sigh.


Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.censorship
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Orson Scott Card
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 01:09:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.195538.12836@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.191700.15095@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
>>[In response to requests for the Orson Scott Card article]
>>Didn't someone post a while back (a few months actually now that I think
>>about it) that Mr. Card had specifically ordained that his article NOT
>>be redistributed, on penalty of nasty legal action? 
>Do any lawyers out there know if speech can be supressed in this fashion?
>Its certainly not libel unless OSC is claiming not to have written the
>article. I see all sorts of articles quoted all the time, would it be
>legal to paraphrase it and quote important statements?

He's talking about copyright, not libel.  Card certainly may prohibit the
republication or redistribution of his wriring.

Quoting brief portions and summarizing the rest would probably come under
the "fair use" provisions, however.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark)
Subject: Re: Gay Cops and 60 Minutes
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:33:33 GMT

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver):
> "But they're only a tiny minority of our community.  They
> don't represent the mainstream.  WE ARE the mainstream."

  Shirley, Bob, you noticed that it was a *BIG* *BUTCH* *LESBIAN*
who said that, right?  Aren't they just awful?  Flaunting it
like that?  Why can't they be more like, um, say, Pat Buchanan's
wife?  Feminine and lady-like.

-- Mark

(Doesn't Mrs. Pat Buchanan look like the
"Lady in the Radiator" from "Eraserhead"?)
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: recollections of motss.con (was Re: What is virginity?)
Date: 7 Sep 92 12:11:56 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes about an assortment
of deflowering experiences associated with the Portland con.

I gotta say that the beach was quite an experience for me, too.
Remember that I don't have the experience of the locker room.
And my sexual style is definitely one-at-a-time, and for over twenty
years it's been the same one every time.  So that was a most amazing
experience.

I expect it looked pretty wild to other people too.  There I was,
fully dressed.  (I get a rash when I'm out in the sun without
protection.  I hate sunscreen, although I've finally found a
tolerable kind that seems to work very well.  So I was--literally--
covered from head to toe.)  For intervals, I was the only female
around.  I was sitting on the sand surrounded by a most delightful
assortment of men, all wearing a lot less than I.  Some wore shirts
only.

Besides, nice Jewish girl that I am, I'd never seen an uncut male
more than two weeks old.  Well, no-- I do remember babysitting on
the beach once, and catching sight of a three-year old whose
foreskin was intact.  But you know what I mean.

I was especially impressed by the variety in shapes and sizes.
And nervous as could be, because I was sure that I'd recollect
genitals and not faces.  There were short thick ones and long skinny
ones and bent ones and contracted ones and, of course, cut ones and
uncut ones-- and so on.  And they were variously colored and furred,
of course.  And the next day I couldn't for the life of me have
remembered who was who, except from the neck up.

I do remember a brief dislplay of naked backs, which I think was
part of a furriness competition, but it was a ways away from me and
I don't recall who competed.  (My personal favorite was uncomfortable
because of the nudity and the sun; he kept looking for a shady place
to take a hike and being disappointed not to find one.)

So that's my big "virginity lost" story from the con.  

I've also had a good time relating the event to family and friends.
It's interesting to see how differently different folks react to the
idea.  My mother looked positively green with envy.  My father (a
doctor) seemed quite amused.

Whenever I go to a con-- or a dinner, for that matter-- I anticipate
the first face-to-face encounter with someone from the net as a loss
of virginity.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nickn@eskimo.celestial.com (Nick Nussbaum)
Subject: Re: The Last Oregon NCOD??
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:20:49 GMT


I agree with George Madison that you should send a check
to fight proposition 9 in Oregon. If you do, be aware
that they need to know your employers  name and address
and your occupation for Oregon campaign laws.
I sent a check and they had to mail back for the information
before they could use the money.
-- 
Nick Nussbaum	P.O. Box 98104-0738	Seattle Washington
uunet!eskimo.celestial.com!nickn        (206)-325-7795
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Record trivia
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:58:48 GMT

Gee, Non/Boyd Rice discussions on soc.motss, what next? :-)

There's another less obscure record with 3 grooves on one side. It's
by Laurie Anderson (before Big Science), but I can't remember the title
right now...

Christian Marclay's Record without A Cover (yes, I'm the proud owner of
one of these) doesn't have grooves on one side as well.

Bill, who can't believe he's so bored reading soc.motss that he's
replying to trivia questions
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the openness of USENET
Date: 5 Sep 92 07:55:46 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <1992Aug26.181607.8546@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>
>In article <1992Aug26.152631.25810@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>>Nowadays I post almost exclusively to soc.motss.  But when I
>>first got going on Usenet (1986), I posed to all sorts of
>>groups, 
>
>Shows what's been happening with my karma, I guess.  John
>Fisher will say "jesus wept, Steve Dyer will say "there *is*
>a god," I will have to hide my face from myriad jeers, some
>of which (only a tiny number, I insist) I might deserve.
>
>I promise not to swear or leave my breadcrusts any more,
>honest.
>

Hi Jess.  Your quotes don't match.   Work like a typesetter, or
adn ex-typesetter (like me) and use `` and '' rather than the
cheap "  and you will be okay.

-- 
	C unions never strike; they only work to rule.

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:11:17 GMT


In article <65060@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) sputters:
|> Steve Dyer whines:
|> >The fact that you despise Chinese food has nothing to do with it, George, eh?
|> 
|> Totally wrong.  I just don't like *SZECHUAN* food, and I see no
|> reason whatsoever for soc.motss gatherings to be locked into one
|> particular cuisine.

I don't recall either of the SF Dim Sums I've been to
being particularly *SZECHUAN* in nature.  I do remember
a lot of *FRIED* things with *MUSHROOMS*, though.

|> 
|> >I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
|> >AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)
|> 
|> Steve, do you have to *work* at being this big an asshole or were
|> you born this way?

I guess Steve just got a little piece of that sense
of humor that they removed from you at birth.......

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Marshall G. Flax)
Subject: Re: How Egalitarian are Homosexual Relationships?
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:32:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.173023.18874@Princeton.EDU> I wrote:
>Hey man, my SO and I happen to be of different genders, and damned if I
>can figure out whose the "dominant partner" and whose the "submissive
>partner."

Please, everybody, pipe that through "sed 's/whose/who\'s/g".  Thanks!

marshall
-- 
============ 40 Linden Lane, Princeton, NJ 08540, 609-921-0962 ============
=========== 5 Joyce Lane, Woodbury, NY 11797, 516-364-9331,9379  ==========
===== c/o Jack Gelfand,Psych Dept,Princeton U.,NJ 08544,609-258-2930  =====
= Original material(c) 1992, Marshall Flax <mgflax@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> =
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Publicity
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 20:21:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Matthew Melmon sez (among other things):

>Aaachhh!  <stomp> <click> ZEIG! <*snap*>

Hey, did you get Pat Buchanan's permission to repost his Republican
Convention speech?

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@akbar.nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: Hate mail
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:50:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.221822.5215@panix.com> ro@panix.com (r l reid)  
writes:
> I think the next NYC one should be picnic on the pier, brings your  
own
> and enough to share.  And MINE is PB&J, without apologies. Homma
> IKE dassa PB&J.

Huppy dod, klop, klop, klop. 

jefu {proving that jeffs - as claimed in another post - can be
      silly - even when its spelled jefu}
--
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Overturn the dominant paradigm"
Newsgroups: soc.motss