HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com (DWT)
Subject: Re: Add where you are to .sig file
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:09:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Contributor Account at ddsw1, Chicago, Illinois  60657

davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman) wrote in
<1993Jan5.125808.29420@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, responding to Elizabeth Willey:

| In article <ELIZ.93Jan4175325@corpus-callosum.ai.mit.edu> eliz@ai.mit.edu
| (Elizabeth Willey) writes:

| >Why are the "From:" or "Reply-to:" net addresses, which give
| >considerable information about the posting location, insufficient?
| 
| 	Just look at them!  I happen to know where mit.edu is (I could
| 	probably find it in my sleep, since I went there); but I don't
| 	know where "sfu.ca" (Craig's location) is, except that I believe
| 	it's in Canada.  (At one time, I probably would have misread
| 	that as San Francisco University in California.)

It's Simon Fraser University, in Vancouver or Burnaby or a town near there.

| 	I suspect that fully a third of the email adresses I see on the
| 	net don't give me a clue as to geographical location.  That
| 	includes my own company's postings, since most of us read news
| 	(and post articles) from netnews servers in Columbus, OH, but
| 	our actual locations vary all over the world.  None of my Email
| 	addresses (davet@cbnews.att.com, dmt@pegasus.att.com,
| 	dtutelman@attmail.com) gives a hint as to my physical location.

Let me add this: Ms. Willey seems unaware of such things as modems and
packet-switching networks, and though she must know about telnetting, she
overlooks it.  I have or have had email addresses in Cupertino, California
(on Portal); Berkeley, California (on HoloNet); Peoria, Illinois (Heartland
Free-net); Cleveland, Ohio (Cleveland Free-Net); Columbus, Ohio (CompuServe);
Rockville, Maryland (GEnie); Washington, D.C. (MCI Mail); and Chester, Penn-
sylvania (Widener University); from any of which, via direct post to netnews
or email to a server, I could have posted.  [Indeed I have posted to netnews
from Portal and Widener and still do from HoloNet.]  Yet I have been a life-
log resident of Chicago, Illinois [unless you count my college dorm rooms as
residences many years before I owned a computer].  In fact, I've never even
visited five of those eight cities and have never touched my fingers to a
keyboard in the other three.  (I've also very briefly had email addresses on
sites in Brookline, Massachusettes; Sparkill, New York; and Portland, Oregon,
three more cities I've never seen.)

Neither From: nor Reply-To: would indicate where I really am in any of those
cases.  However, my signature does, even when I'm telephoning to a site only
seven miles from my chair, as I am now.  But I think the idea of even a
seven-mile telephone call was outside Ms. Willey's assumption that everyone
uses a hard-wired terminal and posts from the geographical location of the
site.

David W. Tamkin   Box 59297   Northtown Station, Illinois  60659-0297
dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com    CompuServe: 73720,1570    MCI Mail: 426-1818
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: an3822@anon.penet.fi (Erik the Rude)
Subject: better living thru electricity
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: misc.misc
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:14:29 GMT


all about electronic masturbation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: joet@dcatlas.dot.gov (Joe Trott)
Subject: Re: prisoners?
Organization: U.S Dept. of Transportation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:49:29 GMT

jonathan@cs.pitt.edu (Jonathan Eunice) writes:

>What is a "right" if it can be forfeited?  And just which rights are
>you suggesting those convicted of crimes forfeit?  The right to life?
>To shelter?  To food?  To medical care?  To humane treatment?  Should
>we kill those who have stolen, for example?  Or forcne them to live as
>best they can outside, even in the winter, even in North Dakota?  Or
>force them to live as best they can with painful conditions such as
>cancer without care?  

>Just what is it that you're advocating?  Whatever it is, it shows an
>astounding ignorance of the nature of the so-called human rights, not
>to mention the very practical issues of imprisoning people (in a mode
>where they don't riot and kill their guards and burn down the prison
>every three years).

You did not read the rest of my post before your flames obscured your eyes.
Sure I'm advocating harsh treatment of criminals.  Were you planning on
being one of them?  No?  THEN DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!  If you were, then you
deserve what you get, if not much worse.

A "right", IMO, is something that is intrinsic to [human] nature; i.e. the
Law of Identity (A=A) applies.  I believe I have a right to the use of my
natural survival mechanism.  Being human, that means Reason (I do not bend
toward light and photosynthesize, nor do I have claws and fangs).  I expect to
benefit and prosper from my good choices, and suffer even unto death for my
bad ones.  Someone who *forces* me (or deceives me) to a course of action
contrary to Reason is violating my rights.  Of course, I can't violate theirs
either; this leads to the conclusion that mutual agreement, e.g. contracts
expressed or implied, with mutual benefits to all those entering into them
are the way that humans *should* live.  If I want something, I must *earn*
it, by producing something of at least equal value for exchange on the
free market.

Since it is not reasonable for me to pay for the care of repeat offenders
of violent crimes, I would like them to be shot.  Heck, I'll do it if others
allow unsubstantiatable religious beliefs to prevent them from doing so.
It burns my butt to know that people in jail for such crimes are considered
to have such "rights" that they can receive all kinds of things (like
expensive medical care) free, AT MY EXPENSE, while I have to pay for them,
WHEN I CAN GET THEM AT ALL.
A quick death is not "cruel and unusual".  Death is the usual outcome,
eventually, for all living things.  And a method (such as large caliber
gunshot) that destroys any perceptual ability for pain is not cruel.

-JTT
Newsgroups: misc.misc,misc.wanted,news.admin.misc
From: puc@rnp.impa.br (PUC-RJ)
Subject: Re: Add where you are to .sig file
Organization: IMPA/CNPq
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:51:54 GMT

wohler@hw1175.sap-ag.de (Bill Wohler) writes:



>  and for those who flamed about americans being usa-centric, i think
>  you'd be too if you could go your whole life without ever needing a
>  passport or another language.  not that it's right, it just is.

let's go: ah ah ah (that's a lot of smiles).

that's not an usa-centric guy. that's an stupid-centric one. hushh.

once more: ah ah ah.

Duda.

Eduardo Ferreira - Rio de Janeiro, Brasil 
duda@rdc.puc-rio.br - Pontificia Universidade Catolica do Rio de Janeiro
Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Subject: Re: Add where you are to .sig file
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:58:08 GMT

In article <ELIZ.93Jan4175325@corpus-callosum.ai.mit.edu> eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey) writes:
>Craig Silver writes:
>   ...I think it would be appropriate and
>   convenient to the readers of your articles to put your city,
>   province/state, and country of residence (work, study, or from
>   wherever you post) at the end of your articles or in your
>   signature file.
>
>Why?
	Having seen this thread on misc.wanted, let me say that it DOES
	matter to me in .wanted and .forsale transactions whether I'm
	dealing locally, "slightly" interstate, cross-country, or
	internationally.  Each step in the above sequence introduces new
	expenses and/or headaches.

>What does this have to do with the reader's interpretation of the
>content of the posting?

	For transacting sales or purchases, it obviously matters.
	SOME of the newsgroups to which Craig posted have such
	transactions as their raison d'etre.

	It WOULD be interesting to find out why Craig's posting
	was relevant in the other groups it appeared.
	(misc.writing? misc.misc?)

>Why are the "From:" or "Reply-to:" net addresses, which give
>considerable information about the posting location, insufficient?

	Just look at them!  I happen to know where mit.edu is (I could
	probably find it in my sleep, since I went there), but I don't
	know where "sfu.ca" (Craig's location) is, except that I believe
	it's in Canada.  (At one time, I probably would have misread
	that as San Francisco University in California.)

	I suspect that fully a third of the email adresses I see on the
	net don't give me a clue as to geographical location.  That
	includes my own company's postings, since most of us read news
	(and post articles) from netnews servers in Columbus, OH, but
	our actual locations vary all over the world.  None of my Email
	addresses (davet@cbnews.att.com, dmt@pegasus.att.com,
	dtutelman@attmail.com) gives a hint as to my physical location.

>If one desperately needs to know another's physical location, cannot one
>ask politely in private correspondence?

	Sure, but I believe it's fundamentally impolite to solicit a
	physical transaction without providing relevant/important
	details like physical location.

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|    Dave Tutelman						|
|    Physical - AT&T Bell Labs  -  Lincroft, NJ	  07738		|
|    Logical -  dmt@pegasus.att.com -or- dtutelman@attmail.com	|
|    Audible -  (908) 576 2194  (Office)			|
|		(908) 922 9576  (Home)				|
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

These are my opinions, not my employer's.
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: misc.misc
Subject: Re: What heappened at 10:09 (Watch adds)
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:59:53 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <1993Jan11.170856.9638@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> nsus_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Nick Susch) writes:
>I have a question that has been bugging me for awhile, why are analog
>watches in store catalogs always set to 10:09? I, at first, thought that it
>was just because it looked good, but every single watch, no matter what
>catalog you look in is like that. Any one know why?

There is a myth that clocks are all set to this time because it was the
time that Lincoln died, or that some other noteworthy event ocurred. 
Actually, clocks are set like this (or to 8:19) because the hands are nicely
symmetric, and they frame the manufacturer's name.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov



Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: shedevil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anne P. Mitchell, JD)
Subject: Re: Language Censors
Reply-To: shedevil@gw.home.vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell, J.D.)
Organization: Fathers Rights & Equality Exchange
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 19:15:44 GMT

Ahem...Ms. Meizlish's email address is:

meizlish@um.cc.umich.edu



Newsgroups: misc.misc
From: shedevil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anne P. Mitchell, JD)
Subject: Re: Language Censors
Reply-To: shedevil@gw.home.vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell, J.D.)
Organization: Fathers Rights & Equality Exchange
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:04:13 GMT

In a recent missive jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews) tells us:
>In article <1993Jan12.191544.15800@leland.Stanford.EDU> shedevil@gw.home.vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell, J.D.) writes:
>>Ahem...Ms. Meizlish's email address is:
>> [address deleted]
>
>     And how do you expect us to use this information, Anne?

Any way you see fit.  I personally used it to ask her if the Wall Street
Journal's account was factually accurate.

>     By the way, I wonder if the Wall Street Journal's broad
>conception of "freedom of speech" extends to the reprinting of
>copyrighted articles from their paper.  

Perhaps, Jamie, you could explain for those of us playing at home what
the legally accurate definition of "freedom of speech" is?  

>Or to hate mail, for that matter.

I certainly hope that you are not implying that an inference was to be
drawn that she should be sent hate email.  That would be a sick, and
inappropriate, inference.

Xref: sparky misc.misc:4242 misc.wanted:10554 misc.writing:4026 news.admin.misc:975 news.admin:8790
From: marita@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Marita Beiske)
Newsgroups: misc.misc
Subject: Oh yeah, a test
Date: 6 Jan 1993 09:28:52 GMT
Organization: nowhere
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de

abcd
hh
From: stassin@taloa.unice.fr
Newsgroups: misc.misc
Subject: test
Date: 9 Jan 93 15:31:17 GMT
Organization: University of Nice - Sophia Antipolis, France
NNTP-Posting-Host: taloa.unice.fr

It's just a test..
From: Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Grant Cunningham)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Where to buy bigmOuth voicemail card
Date: 5 Jan 93 07:05:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.726395360.AA00000

John Hutchinson wrote about "Where to buy bigmOuth voicemail card".
Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:

 JH> This is embarassing, but I can't find a previously recommended source
for
 JH> Talking Technologies bigmOuth voicemail card for the pc.  I know I can
 JH> buy it direct from them but that's at full retail and I know it's
 JH> available from "somewhere" for $50 less plus free shipping.

 JH> If anybody knows where to buy this thing from, please advise.  Thanks!

From your original message about this:

=========================================================================
You can order the BigmOuth pc card from Computer Direct for
$200 with paid shipping.  If you order it from Talking Technologies, you will
have to pay the full retail at $249, I think.

Computer Direct's number is 800-289-9473 and Talking Technologies number is
510-522-3800.
=========================================================================

I'd be embarrassed too.  <g>

-=[ Grant ]=-

Fight-O-Net:  1:105/54.55
Eunuchs: UUCP  ...!{reed, m2xenix}!glacier!busker!54.55!grant.cunningham
         INTERNET  grant.cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: alpha@vpnet.chi.il.us (Randy Sales)
Subject: Mail order Visa?
Organization: Vpnet - Free Usenet access
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:33:45 GMT


Does anyone know how to locate a Visa/Mastercard processor which will handle
,process, merchant transactions taken over the phone?  Local banks will only
process charges done face to face.
From: rui.ribeiro@brent.uucp (Rui Ribeiro) 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: NEW AD
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:37:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Brentwood BBS Harrison, NY  914-835-7898
Reply-To: rui.ribeiro@brent.uucp (Rui Ribeiro) 

My wife just got her business permit.  I'd like to run our ad by you.
Let me know what you think.

*********** Shira - Amazing Psychic **************
Now you can know what 1993 has in store for you.
Romance, Wealth, New Opportunities.
Your 6 Month Forecast for only $25.00
Send your name, address, date of birth and check or Money Order to:

                     Shira
                  P O Box 307
               Nanuet, NY  10954



We welcome all comments.

Thanks, again.

PS - If you'd like your own forecast, please feel free to use the ad.
                                                                                             
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,misc.invest
From: edwin@tellabs.com (Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield)
Subject: Credit Union
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:59:36 GMT

Does anyone have any information on how to start a credit union?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield                Voice: 312/326-6400/488-7128
Information Guru                        Data.: 312/326-4750 
Nefertiti Information Exchange (BDPANet) - 24/7  9600-1200 baud
Changing the Way You Think About Information
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: dgorbet@rainbow.UWaterloo.ca (D.P.H. Gorbet)
Subject: Re: Income Builders International?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:36:17 GMT

In article <1isnmaINNpie@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary  
Fritz) writes:

[Stuff Deleted]

> My in-laws have been struggling to get a product off the ground for
> a while now (several products related to portable/automated stoplights)
> and could definitely use a cash infusion.  But they're also virtually
> broke, and the idea of them dropping $7000 to go to some unknown seminar
> makes me VERY nervous.

I don't blame you.  I would be nervous too.  Here's what I recommend:

Here at the University of Waterloo, we have an organization called the  
Innovation Centre.  They are a non-profit organization that helps  
entrepreneurs and inventors to prepare market analysis, business plans,  
financing, etc.  They run a service for a few hundred dollars (Canadian  
dollars) where they evaluate the product idea.  They also run low-cost  
workshops all over Ontario for inventors on matters ranging from  
creativity to obtaining financing.

I suggest your in-laws get on their mailing list and ask about their  
services.  I don't have the address off-hand, but if you're interested,  
please feel free to email me (dgorbet@zeus.uwaterloo.ca) and I'll send it  
to you.

> Thanks,
> Gary

You're welcome,
-- Dave.
From: patel@key.amdahl.com (Chandresh Patel)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Predatory marketing
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:31:50 GMT
Reply-To: patel@key.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Advanced System Division

-In article 1hbj79INNdur@uwm.edu, markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) writes:
-> 
->    What would it take to snatch away a sizeable fraction of the market on
-> compilers or operating systems (say, PC-compatible C compilers) from the big
-> guys, working from scratch with nothing but a software development system but
-> unlimited access to innovative talent?
-> 
->    Seems to me one possible answer is to write a compiler for a better, upwardly
-> compatible, more useful, language and market the language with the compiler.
-> There's plenty of room there, it appears.

GNU C++ appears to have a good job at that.

---
Chandresh Patel			Amdahl Advanced Systems, Fremont CA
patel@key.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Making $68,000 with a $94 investment
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:43:19 GMT


Albert Cheng (acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu) posted the following analysis to
misc.invest:

>In article <1017@rc1.vub.ac.be> rdictus@vnet3.vub.ac.be (Roy Dictus) writes:
>>Joker '88 is a German financial game where the risks are minimal
>>and the gains are incredible.  For every $96 investment you make,
>>you stand to gain $69,984 in profits in a six-to-eighteen month
>>time span.  All you have to do is find three other participants,
>>and the money will start rolling in!
>>
>>For more information, send me a note.
>>
>>Roy D., rdictus@vnet3.vub.ac.be
>
>Hm... 69,984 is 96x9x9x9.  What a coincidence with $96 down and three
>more participants.  Not a penny off.  A 729 fold return in 18 months.
>I better rush in to learn this miracle investment; maybe I can get
>Clinton to nominate me as the Treasurary Secretary into Bentson.
>
>Not only this is a joke to get suckers to part with their money; it is
>ILLEGAL.  You can get fine $5000 and 6 months hard time for each
>offense through mail.  If you don't believe me, call your local post
>office.

-Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: drw@euler.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Subject: Re: Starting a Bank
Organization: MIT Dept. of Tetrapilotomy, Cambridge, MA, USA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:51:51 GMT

It seems like the real problem with starting a bank isn't the
paperwork (you can always hire a lawyer to take care of that), but
rather the basic problem of "How are you going to make it pay?"  The
existing banks may not be nice, but they're not stupid.  (At least,
the ones still in business aren't.)  Basically, banks make money by
borrowing it from people at a low interest rate and lending it to
other people at a higher interest rate.  Unfortunately, the people
with money to lend are getting quite adept at finding the investment
that will pay the best interest, so the banker's "spread" is getting
quite small.

Check whether the average bank customer is willing to sacrifice 0.5%
interest to avoid the features of present banks that you want to
eliminate...

Dale
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver)
Subject: Inventions upon demand
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:51:29 GMT


We are an exceedingly productive group of professional inventors in
the Boston area. We are senior scientists with outstanding credentials
(from MIT, Battelle, Gulf + Western, Raytheon, Revlon, Technion, and
more) and proven track records. If you need a product we can invent it
for you. We have introduced 100+ patents and 100+ new products and
processes into industry. Previous clients include several Fortune 500
and many small firms. We will provide low or high tech innovative
solutions to difficult and 'insoluble' problems with terms to be
arranged. If you have a need, can market it and/or provide initial 
funding please describe the product and we will return a 
no-obligation proposal. 


Dr. Richard Silver
Invent Resources
Box 548
Lexington, MA 02173

rsilver@world.std.com

 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: alpha@vpnet.chi.il.us (Randy Sales)
Subject: Visa/MasterCard for phone orders
Organization: Vpnet - Free Usenet access
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:36:31 GMT

I am trying to find a Merchant processor to sign up with so I can take
Visa/MasterCard orders.  The problem is all of the ones I have talked to
Either won't handle phone orders or will only handle phone orders of say
15% of charges.  I expect that I will have 80% or more of purchases by
phone orders.  Any help wil be appreciated.

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: fure@owlnet.rice.edu (Jan Fure)
Subject: Re: The Great 1993 $150 Challenge
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:18:38 GMT

What about being a Lending Shark? That way you can beat wimpy bank accounts and also your customers if they default!
-- 

Sincerely, Jan Fure
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: durai@ortta.umn.edu (Durai Venkatasubramanian)
Subject: Help wanted: usenet groups
Organization: U of Mn
Distribution: soc.culture.tamil
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:33:03 GMT


I apologize for posting a message that may not be appropriate for this group.

I would like to have a list of all newsgroups.  Can someone help me with a 
text file of all the newsgroups ? Please mail to durai@ortta.umn.edu

I do not have enough memory in my pc, and as a result, everytime I try to 
subscribe from the list, my computer crashes after counting upto 4000 
newsgroups.   I would like to include the groups in my startup file, so that 
I do not have to worry about selecting from the five thousand odd groups.

Where can I find a list of all the newsgroups, in a downloadable form ?

Thanks a ton.