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Date: 21 Nov 92 10:56:00 EST
From: info-unix@BRL.MIL
Subject: INFO-UNIX Digest  V17#002
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INFO-UNIX Digest          Sat, 21 Nov 1992              V17#002

Today's Topics:
     Frequently Asked Questions about Unix (4/7) [Biweekly posting]
                        Re: IS UNIX DEAD (long)
                             IS UNIX DEAD?
                           Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
                Re: Whence Unix? (was Re: IS UNIX DEAD?)
                      simple bulletin board wanted
                Sun 386i and multiple disks???  Argh!!!
                          Postscript in Latex
                        Re: Postscript in Latex
                        Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
                    Configuring dial-up for SUN 3/60
                     Has anyone installed uniquid?
                        Telnet as a term program
                              sed puzzler
                    Re: configuring xntpd for HP-UX
                         Need info on X Courses
                        Directory tree with pic
                          Time synchronization
                    Re: UNIX --> DOS remote printing
                  C++ Debugger for Motif  -----> HELP
                             scan question
                                rn help
             Can linux run on IBM PS/60? any other can do?
                                  Re:
            How do I REALLY setup for 'cu' and 'uucico' use?
                             modem question
                             ESIX feedback
               Is there a nice menuing system available?
          Printing Postscript thumbnails?  Mpage doesn't work.
                                 SetUID
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ted M A Timar <tmatimar@empress.com>
Subject: Frequently Asked Questions about Unix (4/7) [Biweekly posting]
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:01:05 GMT
Expires: 4 Dec 1992 06:00:17 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.questions
Supersedes: <unix-faq/part4_719816413@athena.mit.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pit-manager.mit.edu
X-Last-Updated: 1992/10/21
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

Archive-name: unix-faq/part4
Version: $Id: part4,v 2.0 92/10/20 12:07:10 tmatimar Exp $

These seven articles contain the answers to some Frequently Asked
Questions often seen in comp.unix.questions and comp.unix.shell.
Please don't ask these questions again, they've been answered plenty
of times already - and please don't flame someone just because they may
not have read this particular posting.  Thank you.

These articles are divided approximately as follows:

      1.*) General questions.
      2.*) Relatively basic questions, likely to be asked by beginners.
      3.*) Intermediate questions.
      4.*) Advanced questions, likely to be asked by people who thought
	   they already knew all of the answers.
      5.*) Questions pertaining to the various shells, and the differences.
      6.*) An overview of Unix variants.
      7.*) An comparison of configuration management systems (RCS, SCCS).

This article includes answers to:

      4.1)  How do I read characters from a terminal without requiring the user
              to hit RETURN?
      4.2)  How do I check to see if there are characters to be read without
              actually reading?
      4.3)  How do I find the name of an open file?
      4.4)  How can an executing program determine its own pathname?
      4.5)  How do I use popen() to open a process for reading AND writing?
      4.6)  How do I sleep() in a C program for less than one second?
      4.7)  How can I get setuid shell scripts to work?
      4.8)  How can I find out which user or process has a file open or is using
            a particular file system (so that I can unmount it?)
      4.9)  How do I keep track of people who are fingering me?
      4.10) Is it possible to reconnect a process to a terminal after it has
            been disconnected, e.g. after starting a program in the background
            and logging out?
      4.11) Is it possible to "spy" on a terminal, displaying the output
            that's appearing on it on another terminal?

If you're looking for the answer to, say, question 4.5, and want to skip
everything else, you can search ahead for the regular expression "^4.5)".

While these are all legitimate questions, they seem to crop up in
comp.unix.questions or comp.unix.shell on an annual basis, usually
followed by plenty of replies (only some of which are correct) and then
a period of griping about how the same questions keep coming up.  You
may also like to read the monthly article "Answers to Frequently Asked
Questions" in the newsgroup "news.announce.newusers", which will tell
you what "UNIX" stands for.

With the variety of Unix systems in the world, it's hard to guarantee
that these answers will work everywhere.  Read your local manual pages
before trying anything suggested here.  If you have suggestions or
corrections for any of these answers, please send them to to
tmatimar@empress.com.

4.1)  How do I read characters from a terminal without requiring the user
      to hit RETURN?

      Check out cbreak mode in BSD, ~ICANON mode in SysV.

      If you don't want to tackle setting the terminal parameters
      yourself (using the "ioctl(2)" system call) you can let the stty
      program do the work - but this is slow and inefficient, and you
      should change the code to do it right some time:

      #include <stdio.h>
      main()
      {
	    int c;

	    printf("Hit any character to continue\n");
	    /*
	     * ioctl() would be better here; only lazy
	     * programmers do it this way:
	     */
	    system("/bin/stty cbreak");        /* or "stty raw" */
	    c = getchar();
	    system("/bin/stty -cbreak");
	    printf("Thank you for typing %c.\n", c);

	    exit(0);
      }

      You might like to check out the documentation for the "curses"
      library of portable screen functions.  Often if you're interested
      in single-character I/O like this, you're also interested in
      doing some sort of screen display control, and the curses library
      provides various portable routines for both functions.

4.2)  How do I check to see if there are characters to be read without
      actually reading?

      Certain versions of UNIX provide ways to check whether characters
      are currently available to be read from a file descriptor.  In
      BSD, you can use select(2).  You can also use the FIONREAD ioctl
      (see tty(4)), which returns the number of characters waiting to
      be read, but only works on terminals, pipes and sockets.  In
      System V Release 3, you can use poll(2), but that only works on
      streams.  In Xenix - and therefore Unix SysV r3.2 and later - the
      rdchk() system call reports whether a read() call on a given file
      descriptor will block.

      There is no way to check whether characters are available to be
      read from a FILE pointer.  (You could poke around inside stdio
      data structures to see if the input buffer is nonempty, but that
      wouldn't work since you'd have no way of knowing what will happen
      the next time you try to fill the buffer.)

      Sometimes people ask this question with the intention of writing
	    if (characters available from fd)
		    read(fd, buf, sizeof buf);
      in order to get the effect of a nonblocking read.  This is not
      the best way to do this, because it is possible that characters
      will be available when you test for availability, but will no
      longer be available when you call read.  Instead, set the
      O_NDELAY flag (which is also called FNDELAY under BSD) using the
      F_SETFL option of fcntl(2).  Older systems (Version 7, 4.1 BSD)
      don't have O_NDELAY; on these systems the closest you can get to
      a nonblocking read is to use alarm(2) to time out the read.

4.3)  How do I find the name of an open file?

      In general, this is too difficult.  The file descriptor may
      be attached to a pipe or pty, in which case it has no name.
      It may be attached to a file that has been removed.  It may
      have multiple names, due to either hard or symbolic links.

      If you really need to do this, and be sure you think long
      and hard about it and have decided that you have no choice,
      you can use find with the -inum and possibly -xdev option,
      or you can use ncheck, or you can recreate the functionality
      of one of these within your program.  Just realize that
      searching a 600 megabyte filesystem for a file that may not
      even exist is going to take some time.

4.4)  How can an executing program determine its own pathname?

      Your program can look at argv[0]; if it begins with a "/", it is
      probably the absolute pathname to your program, otherwise your
      program can look at every directory named in the environment
      variable PATH and try to find the first one that contains an
      executable file whose name matches your program's argv[0] (which
      by convention is the name of the file being executed).  By
      concatenating that directory and the value of argv[0] you'd
      probably have the right name.

      You can't really be sure though, since it is quite legal for one
      program to exec() another with any value of argv[0] it desires.
      It is merely a convention that new programs are exec'd with the
      executable file name in argv[0].

      For instance, purely a hypothetical example:
	
	#include <stdio.h>
	main()
	{
	    execl("/usr/games/rogue", "vi Thesis", (char *)NULL);
	}

      The executed program thinks its name (its argv[0] value) is
      "vi Thesis".   (Certain other programs might also think that
      the name of the program you're currently running is "vi Thesis",
      but of course this is just a hypothetical example, don't
      try it yourself :-)

4.5)  How do I use popen() to open a process for reading AND writing?

      The problem with trying to pipe both input and output to an
      arbitrary slave process is that deadlock can occur, if both
      processes are waiting for not-yet-generated input at the same
      time.  Deadlock can be avoided only by having BOTH sides follow a
      strict deadlock-free protocol, but since that requires
      cooperation from the processes it is inappropriate for a
      popen()-like library function.

      The 'expect' distribution includes a library of functions that a
      C programmer can call directly.  One of the functions does the
      equivalent of a popen for both reading and writing.  It uses ptys
      rather than pipes, and has no deadlock problem.  It's portable to
      both BSD and SV.  See the next answer for more about 'expect'.

4.6)  How do I sleep() in a C program for less than one second?

      The first thing you need to be aware of is that all you can
      specify is a MINIMUM amount of delay; the actual delay will
      depend on scheduling issues such as system load, and could be
      arbitrarily large if you're unlucky.

      There is no standard library function that you can count on in
      all environments for "napping" (the usual name for short
      sleeps).  Some environments supply a "usleep(n)" function which
      suspends execution for n microseconds.  If your environment
      doesn't support usleep(), here are a couple of implementations
      for BSD and System V environments.

      The following code is adapted from Doug Gwyn's System V emulation
      support for 4BSD and exploits the 4BSD select() system call.
      Doug originally called it 'nap()'; you probably want to call it
      "usleep()";

      /*
	    usleep -- support routine for 4.2BSD system call emulations
	    last edit:	29-Oct-1984	D A Gwyn
      */

      extern int	select();

      int
      usleep( usec )				/* returns 0 if ok, else -1 */
	    long		usec;		/* delay in microseconds */
	    {
	    static struct			/* `timeval' */
		    {
		    long	tv_sec;		/* seconds */
		    long	tv_usec;	/* microsecs */
		    }	delay;		/* _select() timeout */

	    delay.tv_sec = usec / 1000000L;
	    delay.tv_usec = usec % 1000000L;

	    return select( 0, (long *)0, (long *)0, (long *)0, &delay );
	    }

      On System V you might do it this way:

      /*
      subseconds sleeps for System V - or anything that has poll()
      Don Libes, 4/1/1991

      The BSD analog to this function is defined in terms of
      microseconds while poll() is defined in terms of milliseconds.
      For compatibility, this function provides accuracy "over the long
      run" by truncating actual requests to milliseconds and
      accumulating microseconds across calls with the idea that you are
      probably calling it in a tight loop, and that over the long run,
      the error will even out.

      If you aren't calling it in a tight loop, then you almost
      certainly aren't making microsecond-resolution requests anyway,
      in which case you don't care about microseconds.  And if you did,
      you wouldn't be using UNIX anyway because random system
      indigestion (i.e., scheduling) can make mincemeat out of any
      timing code.

      Returns 0 if successful timeout, -1 if unsuccessful.

      */

      #include <poll.h>

      int
      usleep(usec)
      unsigned int usec;		/* microseconds */
      {
	    static subtotal = 0;	/* microseconds */
	    int msec;			/* milliseconds */

	    /* 'foo' is only here because some versions of 5.3 have
	     * a bug where the first argument to poll() is checked
	     * for a valid memory address even if the second argument is 0.
	     */
	    struct pollfd foo;

	    subtotal += usec;
	    /* if less then 1 msec request, do nothing but remember it */
	    if (subtotal < 1000) return(0);
	    msec = subtotal/1000;
	    subtotal = subtotal%1000;
	    return poll(&foo,(unsigned long)0,msec);
      }

      Another possibility for nap()ing on System V, and probably other
      non-BSD Unices is Jon Zeeff's s5nap package, posted to
      comp.sources.misc, volume 4.  It does require a installing a
      device driver, but works flawlessly once installed.  (Its
      resolution is limited to the kernel HZ value, since it uses the
      kernel delay() routine.)

4.7)  How can I get setuid shell scripts to work?

      [ This is a long answer, but it's a complicated and frequently-asked
        question.  Thanks to Maarten Litmaath for this answer, and
        for the "indir" program mentioned below. ]

      Let us first assume you are on a UNIX variant (e.g. 4.3BSD or
      SunOS) that knows about so-called `executable shell scripts'.
      Such a script must start with a line like:

	#!/bin/sh

      The script is called `executable' because just like a real (binary)
      executable it starts with a so-called `magic number' indicating
      the type of the executable.  In our case this number is `#!' and
      the OS takes the rest of the first line as the interpreter for
      the script, possibly followed by 1 initial option like:

	#!/bin/sed -f

      Suppose this script is called `foo' and is found in /bin,
      then if you type:

	foo arg1 arg2 arg3

      the OS will rearrange things as though you had typed:

	/bin/sed -f /bin/foo arg1 arg2 arg3

      There is one difference though: if the setuid permission bit for
      `foo' is set, it will be honored in the first form of the
      command; if you really type the second form, the OS will honor
      the permission bits of /bin/sed, which is not setuid, of course.

      ----------

      OK, but what if my shell script does NOT start with such a `#!'
      line or my OS does not know about it?

      Well, if the shell (or anybody else) tries to execute it, the OS
      will return an error indication, as the file does not start with
      a valid magic number.  Upon receiving this indication the shell
      ASSUMES the file to be a shell script and gives it another try:

	/bin/sh shell_script arguments

      But we have already seen that a setuid bit on `shell_script' will
      NOT be honored in this case!

      ----------

      Right, but what about the security risks of setuid shell scripts?

      Well, suppose the script is called `/etc/setuid_script', starting
      with:

	#!/bin/sh
	
      Now let us see what happens if we issue the following commands:

	$ cd /tmp
	$ ln /etc/setuid_script -i
	$ PATH=.
	$ -i

      We know the last command will be rearranged to:

	/bin/sh -i

      But this command will give us an interactive shell, setuid to the
      owner of the script!
      Fortunately this security hole can easily be closed by making the
      first line:

	#!/bin/sh -

      The `-' signals the end of the option list: the next argument `-i'
      will be taken as the name of the file to read commands from, just
      like it should!

      ---------

      There are more serious problems though:

	$ cd /tmp
	$ ln /etc/setuid_script temp
	$ nice -20 temp &
	$ mv my_script temp

      The third command will be rearranged to:

	nice -20 /bin/sh - temp

      As this command runs so slowly, the fourth command might be able
      to replace the original `temp' with `my_script' BEFORE `temp' is
      opened by the shell!  There are 4 ways to fix this security hole:

	1)  let the OS start setuid scripts in a different, secure way
	    - System V R4 and 4.4BSD use the /dev/fd driver to pass the
	    interpreter a file descriptor for the script

	2)  let the script be interpreted indirectly, through a frontend
	    that makes sure everything is all right before starting the
	    real interpreter - if you use the `indir' program from
	    comp.sources.unix the setuid script will look like this:

		#!/bin/indir -u
		#?/bin/sh /etc/setuid_script

	3)  make a `binary wrapper': a real executable that is setuid and
	    whose only task is to execute the interpreter with the name of
	    the script as an argument

	4)  make a general `setuid script server' that tries to locate the
	    requested `service' in a database of valid scripts and upon
	    success will start the right interpreter with the right
	    arguments.

      ---------

      Now that we have made sure the right file gets interpreted, are
      there any risks left?

      Certainly!  For shell scripts you must not forget to set the PATH
      variable to a safe path explicitly.  Can you figure out why?
      Also there is the IFS variable that might cause trouble if not
      set properly.  Other environment variables might turn out to
      compromise security as well, e.g. SHELL...  Furthermore you must
      make sure the commands in the script do not allow interactive
      shell escapes!  Then there is the umask which may have been set
      to something strange...

      Etcetera.  You should realise that a setuid script `inherits' all
      the bugs and security risks of the commands that it calls!

      All in all we get the impression setuid shell scripts are quite a
      risky business!  You may be better off writing a C program instead!

4.8)  How can I find out which user or process has a file open or is using
      a particular file system (so that I can unmount it?)

      Use fuser (system V), fstat (BSD), ofiles (public domain) or
      pff (public domain).  These programs will tell you various things
      about processes using particular files.

      A port of the 4.3 BSD fstat to Dynix, SunOS and Ultrix
      can be found in archives of comp.sources.unix, volume 18.

      pff is part of the kstuff package, and works on quite a few systems.
      Instructions for obtaining kstuff are provided in question 3.10.

4.9)  How do I keep track of people who are fingering me?

      Generally, you can't find out the userid of someone who is
      fingering you from a remote machine.  You may be able to
      find out which machine the remote request is coming from.
      One possibility, if your system supports it and assuming
      the finger daemon doesn't object, is to make your .plan file a
      "named pipe" instead of a plain file.  (Use 'mknod' to do this.)

      You can then start up a program that will open your .plan file
      for writing; the open will block until some other process (namely
      fingerd) opens the .plan for reading.  Now you can whatever you
      want through this pipe, which lets you show different .plan
      information every time someone fingers you.

      Of course, this may not work at all if your system doesn't
      support named pipes or if your local fingerd insists
      on having plain .plan files.

      Your program can also take the opportunity to look at the output
      of "netstat" and spot where an incoming finger connection is
      coming from, but this won't get you the remote user.

      Getting the remote userid would require that the remote site be
      running an identity service such as RFC 931.  There are now three
      RFC 931 implementations for popular BSD machines, and several
      applications (such as the wuarchive ftpd) supporting the server.
      For more information join the rfc931-users mailing list,
      rfc931-users-request@kramden.acf.nyu.edu.

      There are two caveats relating to this answer.  The first is that
      many NFS systems won't allow the recognize the named pipe
      correctly.  This means that trying to read the pipe on another
      machine will either block until it times out, or see it as a
      zero-length file, and never print it.

      The second problem is that on many systems, fingerd checks that
      the .plan file contains data (and is readable) before trying to
      read it.  This will not cause remote fingers to miss your .plan
      file entirely.

4.10) Is it possible to reconnect a process to a terminal after it has
      been disconnected, e.g. after starting a program in the background
      and logging out?

      Most variants of Unix do not support "detaching" and "attaching"
      processes, as operating systems such as VMS and Multics support.
      However, there are two freely redistributable packages which can
      be used to start processes in such a way that they can be later
      reattached to a terminal.

      The first is "screen," which is described in the
      comp.sources.unix archives as "Screen, multiple windows on a CRT"
      (see the "screen-3.2" package in comp.sources.misc, volume 28.)
      This package will run on at least BSD, System V r3.2 and SCO UNIX.

      The second is "pty," which is described in the comp.sources.unix
      archives as a package to "Run a program under a pty session" (see
      "pty" in volume 23).  pty is designed for use under BSD-like
      system only.

      Neither of these packages is retroactive, i.e. you must have
      started a process under screen or pty in order to be able to
      detach and reattach it.

4.11) Is it possible to "spy" on a terminal, displaying the output
      that's appearing on it on another terminal?

      There are a few different ways you can do this, although none
      of them is perfect:

      * kibitz allows two (or more) people to interact with a shell
        (or any arbitary program).  Uses include:

	- watching or aiding another person's terminal session;
	- recording a conversation while retaining the ability to
	  scroll backwards, save the conversation, or even edit it
	  while in progress;
	- teaming up on games, document editing, or other cooperative
	  tasks where each person has strengths and weakness that
	  complement one another.

        kibitz comes as part of the expect distribution.  See question 3.9.

        kibitz requires permission from the person to be spyed upon.  To
        spy without permission requires less pleasant approaches:

      * You can write a program that grovels through Kernel structures
        and watches the output buffer for the terminal in question,
        displaying characters as they are output.  This, obviously, is
        not something that should be attempted by anyone who does not
        have experience working with the Unix kernel.  Furthermore,
        whatever method you come up with will probably be quite
        non-portable.

      * If you want to do this to a particular hard-wired terminal all
        the time (e.g. if you want operators to be able to check the
        console terminal of a machine from other machines), you can
        actually splice a monitor into the cable for the terminal.  For
        example, plug the monitor output into another machine's serial
        port, and run a program on that port that stores its input
        somewhere and then transmits it out *another* port, this one
        really going to the physical terminal.  If you do this, you have
        to make sure that any output from the terminal is transmitted
        back over the wire, although if you splice only into the
        computer->terminal wires, this isn't much of a problem.  This is
        not something that should be attempted by anyone who is not very
        familiar with terminal wiring and such.

-- 
Ted Timar - tmatimar@empress.com
Empress Software, 3100 Steeles Ave E, Markham, Ont., Canada L3R 8T3

-----------------------------

From: Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD (long)
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:37:36 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In <RICH.92Nov4093932@rich.kastle.com> rich@kastle.com (Richard Krehbiel) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.003038.12400@ultb.isc.rit.edu> axi0349@ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.X. Ivasyuk) writes:

>>   papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) wrote:
>>       axi0349@ultb.rit.edu (Anatoly Ivasyuk) wrote:
>>   >  > 1) Unix is case sensitive
>>   [stuff deleted]
>>   >Fine, then it should be like OS/2, which is case perserving but not
>>   >case sensitive.  Therefore the file can be named "myFiLe" but I can
>>   >access it with del myfile.
>>
>>   Hmmm...  Interesting proposal.  What if you have two files: "myFiLe" and
>>   "myfile".  Which of these will "del myfile" delete?

>As far as OS/2 (and AmigaDOS, BTW) goes, only one file matching the
>pattern (unix parlance) [Mm][Yy][Ff][Ii][Ll][Ee] can exist in a
>directory.

Geez, I can't count how often I saved a version of a file by typing
	mv Driver.o Driver.O
	mv source.c source.C

My 2ct:
UNIX doesn't have these "user friendlyness" of DOS, because it isn't DOS
that's user friendly, it's the applications that were written for it.
One OS is no more "user friendly" than the other.

DOS runs on el cheapo hardware (couple-o hundred $s will buy You an AT),
UNIX (at least in the past) did require a somewhat bigger hardware.
So, in the past, just about everyone who could program, wrote something
for DOS.

If these people would change to UNIX, the UNIX surely would win.
-- 
| Josef Moellers		| c/o Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG  |
|  USA: mollers.pad@sni-usa.com	| Abt. STO-XS 113	   | Riemekestrasse   |
| !USA: mollers.pad@sni.de	| Phone: (+49) 5251 835124 | D-4790 Paderborn |

-----------------------------

From: Harley Hahn <harley@engrhub.ucsb.edu>
Subject: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:54:20 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

This is number 9 in a series of 22 responses to the question:
 
What do you think about the Byte magazine cover that asked:
IS UNIX DEAD?
 
(moderated by Harley Hahn)
 
 ----------
From: sleepy!pat@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Pat Eyler)
 
At risk of sounding inflammatory, Is Microsoft Dead?  with NT not 
yet out the door, they are trying to fight and win the 'software 
war' with a weapon like DOS.  This does not seem to be the way to 
go.  Especially with such packages as Linux and 386BSD becoming 
more stable, more 'feature rich', and easier to find and install  
(and the price :) )....
 
It looks to me like Unix is alive and picking up speed. 
 
==========
 

-----------------------------

From: Budi Rahardjo <rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:01:38 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:

>>How much is NT projected to cost?

>NT will be priced to SELL.  It depends on the competition at the time.  Right
>now Bill Gates is sweating about OS/2, so it will probably be in the$200-$300
>range.

Yes, but when will it be available ? Solaris 2.0 will be ready by then.

>>Support and handholding comes free on the net.  I'm seeing a number of
>>places in trade magazines that offer support for Linux and BSD:
>>installation, troubleshooting, consulting, and so on.  So you get the
>>OS for free and pay a small fee for support.  Competitive, at least.

>Huh?  What net?  I've never heard of the net?  I just want to get a computer
>to run my carpentry business on, and this guy tells  me to get a modem
>and a TCP/IP connection?  Huh?  Whadda ya mean?

Then buy UnixWorld magazine, look at the ads.
There's "Ready-to-Run Software, Inc." which will deliver all those
publicly available software. They even have 1-800 numbers.
(That's just an example).


>I dont' know how many times I've told people, "Yes, Telix/Telemate/4dos/pkzip
>is shareware, but it's actually GOOD." and they look at me with an "Who are
>you kidding" look.  If nobody makes a profit from it, nobody has to improve
>it.  Worse, if nobody's survival depends on it, it never has to be upgraded.

Which remind me of articles I read in comp.lang.perl, that some guy
didn't want to use perl just because it's not a commercial software.

It's strange, but I found several share/freeware, pd, and gnu programs
to bet better supported. Look at perl.... 
If Joe User prefers a comercial program why not go with SCO or NeXTstep.

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

-----------------------------

From: "Chris A. Anderson" <caa@unify.com>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:22:10 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.questions
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <BxD9vM.MAJ@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@lambert.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
> It's you that doesn't have the clue:  I've said it 100 times.  We need ONE Unixish
> operating system that does ALL of these things.  Telling users: Unix is great because
> Nextstep is easy, and Solaris is graphical, and Linux is free will get Unix NOWHERE!!!
> 
> It's like saying Microsoft products are perfect because Excel is powerful, DOS is popular
> and Windows is easy to use.  The one product has NO effect on the rest!!!
> 
> Excel is expensive, DOS is crap and Windows (well I guess that's crap too!)

Ok.  Fine.  Go do it.

Chris
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Chris Anderson, Unify Corp.                caa@unify.com  |
+------------------------------------------------------------+

-----------------------------

From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Subject: Re: Whence Unix? (was Re: IS UNIX DEAD?)
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:04:49 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <Bx9vDB.8HI@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Nov5.155838.12398@bilver.uucp> bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Nov2.123843.2787@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:
>>
>>>UNIX was designed by hackers for hackers (or by programmers for programmers,
>>>whichever you like best). But it is flexible, programmable, etc. so it could be
>>>made to a real end-user system. And why not?
>>
>>I thought Unix was written by Bell as a word-processing system
>>to enable them write their the phone company manuals. 
> 
> I heard that, but I also heard that Thompson's *primary* goal was to
> find a machine for playing Space War.  What's the story?
> 

  The way I heard it was that the Bell Labs had a wide variety of machines
which had accumulated, and UNIX was developed so that all the different
machines would have the same "front end", thereby making it easier for
users to move from machine to machine. In order to make UNIX system
independant, it was written in a high level language for which a compiler was
avalable on all the different machines. The name UNIX was supposed to
signify that it was the universal operating system. At the time, the idea of
different machines having identical operating systems was not only
unheard of, but considered dangerous by computer vendors. Seems that having to
learn a new OS was one of the key reasons customers stayed with a vendor year
after year. A universal OS made it easier for customers to look
at other machines, and "horror of horrors" actually change hardware vendors!!!!

  In the long run, UNIX's portability and popularity won out. Bell labs
announced their UNIX release amidst a flurry of press statements which implied
that it was an officially developed Bell product, and not the result of an ad
hoc "back room" effort by the programmers.



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|      If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he'ld be ASSASSINATED!      |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-----------------------------

From: Alan Braggins <alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Whence Unix? (was Re: IS UNIX DEAD?)
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:00:47 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

>>>>> On 9 Nov 92 13:04:49 GMT, rivero@mdcbbs.com said:

>   The way I heard it was that the Bell Labs had a wide variety of machines
> which had accumulated, and UNIX was developed so that all the different
> machines would have the same "front end", thereby making it easier for
> users to move from machine to machine. In order to make UNIX system
> independant, it was written in a high level language for which a compiler was
> avalable on all the different machines. The name UNIX was supposed to
> signify that it was the universal operating system. At the time, the idea of
> different machines having identical operating systems was not only
> unheard of, but considered dangerous by computer vendors. Seems that having to
> learn a new OS was one of the key reasons customers stayed with a vendor year
> after year. A universal OS made it easier for customers to look
> at other machines, and "horror of horrors" actually change hardware vendors!!!

From the introduction to the Unix Programmers Guide, and the introduction
to K&R -

"Ken Thompson came across a DEC PDP-7 machine sitting unused..."
"The features of the UNIX system...history...back to 1969."
"...acquistion of a PDP-11.." "By 1972 the innovative idea of pipes... 
recoded in higher level languages (first B, then C), and had been dubbed
with the name UNIX (coined by Brian Kernighan)."
"1971, the system began to be used for applications within AT&T Bell
Laboratories, and shortly thereafter (1974) was made available at low
cost and without support to colleges and universities"
"In 1979 ... AT&T began offering supported versions"

"the language B, which was written by Ken Thompson in 1970 for the
first UNIX system on the DEC PDP-7"


UNIX is a registered trademark of AT&T. AT&T is a modem test command.

--
     Alan Braggins, alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com, abraggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Shape Data - A division of EDS-Scicon Limited.   Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."

-----------------------------

From: "Andrew H. Lue" <andre@uts.amdahl.com>
Subject: simple bulletin board wanted
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:06:37 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I would like to install a bulletin board on my Unix system.
This would be used as a forum for technical discussion.  Most importantly,
it must be accessible by a specific group of users and no one else.
I do not need distributed facilities as it will run on a single computer.
It would be nice if it had a straightforward user interface as some
of the news readers do.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

I don't want to use a mail group because people often complain about
receiving too much mail, which they often don't read.
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Andrew Lue                           andre@uts.amdahl.com

  DISCLAIMER:  The content of this article is an expression
               of me, not of Amdahl Corporation...
               ... which is my employer, of course.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------

From: Ralph Seguin <gilgalad@quip.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Sun 386i and multiple disks???  Argh!!!
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:16:56 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


Howdy.  Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I RTFM, or what little I had
available, and could not seem to solve this problem.  I just
got a Sun 386i and I cannot get it to recognize anything other
than the internal disk.  I have tried the standard range of
SCSI IDs, and the machine seems to freak out nomatter what.
Has anybody seen this before?  Is my machine hosed?  Known problem
with the 386i?  This is a 386iRR250 with 8M, 300M disk, color
monitor.  I'm trying to hook 3 different disks:  Fujitsu 2624SA,
Elite 1 and Wren 7.

			Thanks, Ralph

-----------------------------

From: Dinkar Bhat <bhat@cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Postscript in Latex
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:17:32 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I am sorry if this is not the right news group for this question
, but I need help desperately. How do we include Postscript files
in Latex. I created pictures on the Mac and converted them to PS
and then I want to include them in the Latex file. Any help
is greatly appreciated.

Dinkar.
(bhat@cs.columbia.edu)

-----------------------------

From: Dinkar Bhat <bhat@cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Postscript in Latex
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:47:44 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

Sorry for the wrong posting (will post to comp.text.tex). 
But I got a lot of very helpful replies.  Thanks to one and all.

Dinkar.

-----------------------------

From: "Felix S. Gallo" <rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:53:11 GMT
Followup-To: comp.unix.questions
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>Why is it, in VI if I try to save a file without a name it doesn't prompt
>me for a name?  Instead it kicks me back to vi.  Or if I try to quit without
>saving.  Why doesn't it ask me "Save y/n."  There is no reason VI couldn't
>have an "expert" mode that got rid of messages for those that don't want
>them.

Hey, why doesn't my toaster ask me for confirmation if I press the little
bar without inserting any bread?

As a matter of fact, there are implementations of vi (which is not a
monolithic single-source program) which do this.  There are also 
*innumerable* easy editors which you may install on your fine system.

>Why is it, in VI that there is no way (I know of) to get help, or exit,
>without knowing the exit key?  What doesn't "h" in command mode present
>ANY kind of help?

Why doesn't my hard drive realize that I didn't really want to delete
that data?  Why don't I have a team of ergonomics specialists sitting
at my desk doing all my typing by dictation?

Again, vi is not a drop-in replacement for Microsoft Write.  It's
an extremely powerful editor of text files.  If you want to whine,
consider asking Microsoft why they don't have a command line in
their editors.

>Why is it, in RN that when I hit 'h' to ask about how to find a command,
>it doesn't give me a menu "message read commands","post commands" "misc
>commands."  Instead it makes me read two pages of (mostly useless) commands.

The command you wanted to use was doubtless on one of those two pages.
What do you want, hypertext pop up windows?  The common Unix user wants
to get work done.

>Why don't Unix "tools" have a convention about help and exit keys AT THE
>VERY LEAST.  

Control-C works for me.  That, or Control-Z kill %1.

>Where am I supposd to get help about VI?  The man pages tell me nothing
>except how to load it.

Your lack of attentiveness is simply not our problem.  The bottom of
every man page I've seen about 'vi' contains a pointer to the actual
vi manual.

>Why do I have 12 function keys on my keyboard that seem to do absolutely
>nothing?


dumb question is this?  Are you blaming your keyboard manufacturer's
ills on Unix, or are you incoherently expecting that Unix assign some
sort of meaning to every key assignable?
>
>Why doesn't VI use the jkl; keys for cursor movement, since your fingers
>are already on them.  Or why not use keys somewhere far from them.  A
>person can easily get confused.

Whose fingers are already on them?  Not mine.  If you're having a hard
time moving your fingers one key away, might I recommend not using
a computer?  These things are dangerous.

>Why doesn't help do anything in SH (and others).

'help' is not /bin/sh's problem.  /bin/bash seems to have taken up
that banner, but it's pretty clear to me that 'help' as a shell level
command could shadow a system-specific 'help' which could actually
provide a useful function.

It seems to me that you're yet another user who's been dropped into
Unix cold, without any sort of manual or helpful administrator around.
You have my sympathy for being clueless.

>Why doesn't help do anything in VI?

You already asked this question.

>Why does VI default to beeping at you when you try to type as opposed to
>editing?

Because you're Making a Mistake, and vi appropriately tells you so.

>Why is it that if I want to WordProcess in VI I have to remember to hit return at the end of the line otherwise bizarre things happen.  Why not just wrap, beep, or slide over (i.e. let the line go long). 

Again, you're confused.  My vi, and every vi I have used, has dealt with
too-long lines in a rational manner.  All my vis also have word-wrap,
which you would discover if you took the time to read the man page and
read the manual listed at the end of the man page.

>Is there a wordwrap mode in VI?  And if so, why doesn't it kick in when I
>use VI from RN?

a) yes.  b) because your .exrc file is not set up correctly.

>Inquiring minds want to know.

Hey, I'm getting into the rhythm of this.  Let me try:

Why is it that people who have no idea how to use Unix and who think
that it should operate at the lowest common denominator keep asking
stupid questions?
-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------

From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@unix.amherst.edu>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:02:05 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <gglass07.721361955@ursa> gglass07@ursa.calvin.edu (Gideon Glass) writes:

>Listen, if you don't like VI, don't use it.  Can't you get the point?
>Those of us who like UNIX use it.

Or get ourselves another editor.  I got Emacs.  My users don't like
Emacs.  I got Pico.  My users are happier now.

Unix has survived without marketing with a mostly technical audience
for years.  It will continue to do so.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 

-----------------------------

From: Bill Vermillion <bill@bilver.uucp>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:46:47 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <BxGu2H.A62@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>Why is it, in VI  .....

>Why doesn't VI use the jkl; keys for cursor movement, since your fingers
>are already on them.  Or why not use keys somewhere far from them.  A
>person can easily get confused.

That is one of the nice features of vi.   The hjkl keys are where you
normally place your fingers and in command mode h moves you left, j
down, k up and l right.   I guess you just didn't try them.   And if
your terminal is configured properly you can use the arrow keys too.

>Why is it that if I want to WordProcess in VI I have to remember to hit return at the end of the line otherwise bizarre things happen.  Why not just wrap, beep, or slide over (i.e. let the line go long). 

Yes - I noticed that you let the words continue on a very long line.
But since vi needs to be a program editor too, there are options of
continuing long lines, or to have them wrap just like vi is doing for
me right now.   set wrapmargin=5 will do nicely.

>Inquiring minds want to know.

It appears you didn't inquire of your FM too much :-)


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill

-----------------------------

From: Budi Rahardjo <rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:15:21 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>In article <sherman.721291094@foster> sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman) writes:
>>In <1992Nov6.113324.6348@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:
>>
>>
>>>Wow! ODT uses Motif, NeXT uses NeXTStep, A/UX uses finder and SVR4.2 uses
>>>OPEN LOOK, I guess. That makes four different UNIXes with four different
>>>user interfaces. With NT or OS/2 you only need to learn only *1* user
>>>interface.
>>
>>Suppose you don't like it...

>You get another one...like Norton Desktop, NewWave, PM (for OS/2).  Or you
>could write your own...just like in Unix.  

But then the user has to learn another user interface, which you don't
want to.

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

-----------------------------

From: Budi Rahardjo <rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:28:44 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
 ...
>Why is it, in VI that there is no way (I know of) to get help, or exit,
>without knowing the exit key?  What doesn't "h" in command mode present
>ANY kind of help?

have you ever used 'lvi' (or 'nvi') ?

 ...
>Where am I supposd to get help about VI?  The man pages tell me nothing
>except how to load it.

Get a good Unix (vi) book/reference card.

>Why do I have 12 function keys on my keyboard that seem to do absolutely
>nothing?

That's on your machine not on mine. My function keys work properly.

>Why doesn't VI use the jkl; keys for cursor movement, since your fingers
>are already on them.  Or why not use keys somewhere far from them.  A
>person can easily get confused.

Hmm.. I can use jkl and arrow keys to move the cursor. What's the problem ?

>Why doesn't help do anything in SH (and others).

Well, 'help' does print a usefull information on my machine.

 ...
>Why does VI default to beeping at you when you try to type as opposed to
>editing?

Looka at the bottom right on your screen (presumable you are using vedit),
there's the word "INSERT MODE" or "APPEND MODE" or whatever mode you're in.

>Why is it that if I want to WordProcess in VI I have to remember to hit return at the end of the line otherwise bizarre things happen.  Why not just wrap, beep, or slide over (i.e. let the line go long). 

So just set it to wrap it automatically (for example set wrapmargin=10).

>Is there a wordwrap mode in VI?  And if so, why doesn't it kick in when I
>use VI from RN?

set your .exrc file

>Inquiring minds want to know.

Before bad mouthing on vi, and UNIX, read books, magazines, and relax :-)
BTW, why do associate VI with UNIX ? If you don't like vi find something
else, like pico, ce, and zillion of others.
[I can list strange things with MS-DOS, Windows editors. But what's the
point ?]

You seem to have an old UNIX environment.

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba

-----------------------------

From: Ivo Mokros <mokros@chekov.uu.net>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:18:41 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <BxG6q9.LLI@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:

[ stuff deleted ]
>>
>>Support and handholding comes free on the net.  I'm seeing a number of
>>places in trade magazines that offer support for Linux and BSD:
>>installation, troubleshooting, consulting, and so on.  So you get the
>>OS for free and pay a small fee for support.  Competitive, at least.
>
>Huh?  What net?  I've never heard of the net?  I just want to get a computer
>to run my carpentry business on, and this guy tells  me to get a modem
>and a TCP/IP connection?  Huh?  Whadda ya mean?
>
History repeats itself.  I remember people aguing that nobody could possibly need
more than 64K in their computers.  When computers were first invented, noone could
conceive of any application other than calculating trajectories of projectiles.
Only a few years ago, who would have thought that a carpentry business would need
a computer at all?

Networking is the next logical step in computing, and the capenter who informs
him/herself on the net (in trades.carpentry.how.to.make.more.money perhaps?)
will be further ahead than the status quo oriented competion.

>And where am I supposed to GET this free OS with no access to the net in
>the first place?  And how much is this "small fee" for support?  $300?
>$400? $500?  and how long is it for?
>
>Users get a "nice warm feeling" from BUYING things in a store.  

Because of bullying by large corporations like MicroSoft who can't stand the
fact that someone would write software without trying to become rich doing it.
If your friends still want that "warm fuzzy", they can send money to the author,
or just throw it in the river if they want.

>
>I dont' know how many times I've told people, "Yes, Telix/Telemate/4dos/pkzip
>is shareware, but it's actually GOOD." and they look at me with an "Who are
>you kidding" look.  If nobody makes a profit from it, nobody has to improve
>it.  Worse, if nobody's survival depends on it, it never has to be upgraded.

These people are wrong.  There are gigabytes of free software on the net, and
the users update and improve the code all the time.  

My $0.02:

Unix if firmly entrenched in the technical and large database markets.  There is NO
WAY that Windows NT or OS/2 can make any inroads into this market.  According to the
December 91 issue of UNIX WORLD, the top 5 Unix hardware vendors (Sun, HP, IBM, DEC, AT&T)
sold 11.79 billion dollars worth of Unix systems.  This is not a dead segment of the
computing market.  The company for which I work has over 9000 unix workstations and servers
installed, and growing.  The same is true of other large corporations.  There is no question
that UNIX IS NOT DEAD.  The question is whether it can become the OS of choice on the 
desktop.  I hope that Roel Pieper (sp?) can market Unix well enough to compete with Windows NT.
I installed SVR4 on my 486, and found the installation only marginally more difficult than
installing DOS5 and Windows 3.1.  I don't believe that NT will be any easier to install
that Unix.  If users still find this too difficult, they can buy the system preinstalled.

 ------------------
Ivo Mokros
mokros@bnr.ca

-----------------------------

From: Nicholas Kramer <nk24+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:20:42 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


Excerpts from netnews.comp.unix.questions: 7-Nov-92 Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
(long) by Peter Busser@global.hack 
>There is no standard. Just think of Motif as CAT ,D2 and OPEN LOOK as DIR.
>And many applications use their own user interface. It has hardly anything
>to do with minimizing the learning curve. UNIX has an elegant kernel
>interface but not an elegant user interface.

 This is about as trivial as it gets: Complaining because there are two
GUIs and not one: Open Look and Motif. Let's face it, the average user
doesn't have ANY preference with regards to Macintosh vs. MS-Windows.
What makes you think that the average user will give any more of a shit
about Motif vs. Open Look? Believe it or not, I think some of these
average users may actually appreciate having a choice.

 BTW, I do think you all are overestimating the power of the "average
user" when it comes to deciding the course of the PC world. The "average
user" couldn't afford to buy a machine powerful enough to run GUIs when
they first came out, but look where we went... Yeah, Joe Stupid may be a
large part of it, but he ain't the only thing determining what the next
operating system will be. (We all gotta keep in mind that not every
"average user" is stupid to the core, as several of the "common user
advocates" have suggested.)


						Nick

-----------------------------

From: Bruce MacDonald <Bruce_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca>
Subject: Configuring dial-up for SUN 3/60
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:08:32 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


My roomate has a Sun 3/60 that he is trying to get a dial-up modem to
work with.  Here he is now... (Greg Lypowy)

First off, let me say that this my first foray into UNIX systems
administration.  I have a USRobotics 14400 Sportster, and I am trying to
configure the system for dial-up off of Serial port ttya.

The problem is, the modem answers the phone and everything, but does not
offer the remote system a login prompt, or any feedback for that matter.  I
have done the following:

        - created the ttyd0 special file in /dev
        - included a ttyd0 entry in /etc/ttytab, to the effect of:
                ttyd0   "/usr/etc/getty d2400"  dialup   on
                (2400 was chosen only as a test speed).
Now the getty runs fine, and I can see the modem receiving info from the
remote system.  But she won't talk to the other system.

Am I just leaving out something obvious?  Any help would be greatly
appreciated!

                Greg.


--
Bruce MacDonald
Database Systems Consultant

Email: Bruce_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca

-----------------------------

From: Peter Steele <peter@merlin.acadiau.ca>
Subject: Has anyone installed uniquid?
Date: 10 Nov 92 12:42:02 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I recently learned of a package called uniquid for managing
unique user id's across multiple Unix systems. I picked up
the source but haven't beem able to get it to build. Has
anyone tried installing this package?
--
Peter Steele        Unix Services Manager            peter.steele@acadiau.ca 
Acadia Univ., Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P 1X0  902-542-2201  Fax: 902-542-4364

-----------------------------

From: Stephen Wayne Miller <atario@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Telnet as a term program
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:15:26 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


(I wasn't sure which group was more appropriate for this message, so.)

I'm trying to get telnet to act somewhat like a term program in that I want
it to be able to send and receive at least text files.  I can even be ok
with an I/O redirect and no interaction for that telnet session (like
"% telnet vms.company.com < script_file").  However, depending on the
machine I telnet to, lots or little of the file's text is ignored as input.
Any suggestions??  (No, the machine is not ftp-able.)

(Please e-mail as I don't read these newsgroups.)
-- 
  __     | atario@cats.ucsc.edu | "Oh no!  Toonces, look out!  AIIIEEEE!"  --SNL
 (_      | Delphi:  ATARIO      | "This is only an exhibition.  This is not a
 __)teve | "Happy happy!        |  competition.  So please . . . no wagering."
         |  Joy joy!"  --R & S  |              --Late Night with David Letterman

-----------------------------

From: Randy Mullis <sasrem@herald.unx.sas.com>
Subject: sed puzzler
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:14:36 GMT
Originator: sasrem@herald.unx.sas.com
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


Hi, I would desparately like some help with a sed problem that has been
driving me crazy.  

To spare you from having to read the details that follow, here is the 
basic question:  In sed you can use [^\\] to create a match on "not 
backslash".  Is there a way to specify "not \xe"?


Okay, here are the details. I want a substitution command to substitute
one space for all the material between a start indicator and an end
indicator.

The start indicator is a backslash followed by two x's and some
miscellaneous other characters.  The end indicator is a backslash
followed by 'xe'.  The start and end can be on different lines, on the 
same line, or more than one to a line.

The program I wrote to do this is:

if [ "$#" -eq "0" ]
then
    echo "noindx: arg count error" >&2
    echo "usage: noindx file [...]" >&2
    exit 1
fi

for FILE in $@
do
    if [ ! -s $FILE ]
    then
        echo "file \"$FILE\" does not exist" >&2
        continue
    fi

sed   '/[^^]\\xx[^ =]*[= ][^\\]*\\xe[ ]*[^$]/b block1
       /\\x[^e]*[= ]/b block2
       /\\xe/b block3
       :block1
           s/\\xx[^ =]*[ =][^\\]*\\xe / /g
       :block2
           /\\xe$/!s/\\xe/&\
/g
       :block3
           /^\\x[^e].*[= ]/!s/\\x[^e]*[= ]/\
&/g
'   $FILE |

sed  '  /^\\xx[^ =]*[= ][^\\]*\\xe[ ]*$/d
        /^\\xx[^ =]*[= ]/,/[^\\]*\\xe[ ]*$/d'  > $FILE.new

done

This seemed to be the answer UNTIL I was told that there may be another
backslash construct between the \xx.. start indicator and the \xe end 
indicator.  This means that I cannot use the [^\\] as a terminating 
condition.  

The basic question, then, is this: is there a way in sed to specify
"not (\xe)" as a terminating condition?  Any help would be appreciated.
-- 
____________________________________________________________
Randy Mullis (sasrem@unx.sas.com)
Systems Administrator, Publications Division
SAS Institute Inc.

-----------------------------

From: "A.P.J. Ouwendijk" <ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl>
Subject: Re: configuring xntpd for HP-UX
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:34:43 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

In article <1992Nov9.145633.10651@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:
|> I have compiled and installed the adjtime and xntpd programs but I
|> cannot seem to get them to query our university's ntp servers.  I could
|> really use some pointers on how to go about configuring them to work
|> with my system.  Thanks.

Try comp.protocols.time.ntp    :-)

-- 
        Anthon Ouwendijk               E-Mail: ouwendyk@prso.pttnwb.nl
   __o  PTT Telecom b.v.  o__          Voice:  +31 70 3434572
 _`\<,  's-Gravenhage     ,>/'_
(_)/(_) The Netherlands  (_)\(_)       #include    <std/disclaimer.h>

-----------------------------

From: Brad Appleton <brad@ssd.csd.harris.com>
Subject: Need info on X Courses
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:58:12 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I need to find out information about companies that offer 
training courses in X and/or Motif Programming.

If you know of such a company, please tell me the company name
and the phone-number or e-mail address to contact.

If you are associated with such a company, please e-mail me
information regarding your various X/Motif courses including
the following:

   1) a list of training site locations

   2) course descriptions (goals, duration, prerequisites)

   3) course costs

   4) course dates?


advTHANXance!
______________________ "And miles to go before I sleep." ______________________
 Brad Appleton           brad@ssd.csd.harris.com       Harris Computer Systems
                            uunet!travis!brad          Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer: I said it, not my company! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----------------------------

From: Thomas Gabrysch <gab@adpgate.uucp>
Subject: Directory tree with pic
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:48:45 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I need an example of a directory tree created with the pic
troff processor.

Thanky you,
- Thomas

 ------------------------------
 Thomas Gabrysch

 adpgate.uucp!adpplz!gab
 adpgate!adpplz!gab@apple.com
 -------------------------------

-----------------------------

From: Ron Morley <rmorley@mis.mi04.zds.com>
Subject: Time synchronization
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:53:40 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

Hello all,
    I need to synchronize the time between three HP/UX 8.02 machines and a 
Novell file server.  I called HP tech support and found out that HP does not
implement a remote time daemon for such a task.  They suggested that I try the
InterNet for solutions.  I need to get the time from the Novell server.

Thanks in advance,
Ron Morley
Zenith Data Systems
St. Joseph, Mi. 

email: R.Morley@mis.mi04.zds.com

-----------------------------

From: Timothy Writer <twriter@rd.hydro.on.ca>
Subject: Re: UNIX --> DOS remote printing
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:26:33 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

karell@cs.Helsinki.FI (Esa Karell) writes:

>Hi,

>Is anyone aware of packages (PD or commercial) that
>allow UNIX boxes to send print requests to a DOS box
>on a lan?

Sure.  I use Beame & Whiteside NFS (BWNFS) concurrently with a Novell
network.  BWNFS comes with a TSR called BWLPD.  Once BWLPD is running on
a DOS box, you simply need a printcap entry to direct print requests to
the DOS box.  This is explained in the manual.

BWNFS is not the only TCP/IP and NFS package which provides a printer
daemon (TSR).  I believe Wollongong and FTP software also provide one,
there may be others.  However, IMHO BWNFS is far superior.  BWNFS is
available from:

	Beame & Whiteside Software Ltd.
	P.O. Box 8130
	Dundas, Ontario
	L9H 5E7
	CANADA

	Phone: (416) 765-0822
	Fax: (416) 765-0815

One caveat:  Don't try this without a decent memory manager such as QEMM
or 386Max (I use 386Max).

Tim

P.S.  I have no affiliation with Beame & Whiteside, I'm just a happy
customer.

-- 
Tim Writer			     phone:  (416) 231-4111 ext. 6990
Ontario Hydro Research Division	     fax:    (416) 237-9285
Toronto, Ontario		     e-mail: twriter@rd.hydro.on.ca
CANADA

-----------------------------

From: Ioi Kim Lam <ioi@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu>
Subject: C++ Debugger for Motif  -----> HELP
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:57:31 GMT
Followup-To: comp.windows.x.motif
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.windows.x,g++.help
Subject: C++ Debugger with Motif
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Keywords: 


I am using X11R4 on the SunOS. I am writing Motif programs in C++, using the
GNU compiler g++. Does anyone know how to debug these programs. I tried
gdb-3.2 and gdb-3.5 but they don't seem to understand the C++
function-name convention. Gdb-4.4 gives an segmentation fault with the
Motif program, although it can debug normal C++ programs under Unix. I
tried UPS but it always shows the header file instead of the source file. 

Are there any public-domain X-Debugger available that can support C++?

Please reply to ioi@eniac.seas.upenn.edu

Thank you in advance.

-----------------------------

From: "Elizabeth A. Evans" <uevans@med.unc.edu>
Subject: scan question
Keywords: scan mv'ing files
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:13:24 GMT
Originator: uevans@cahaba
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

This isn't really a *Unix* question, but I couldn't decide on a better
newsgroup...

Has anyone figured out a way to write a key definition in scan that
allows a user to tag a set of filenames and then move that tagged set
to an interactively specified subdirectory?  I've looked in the doc
files we got with the distribution and don't see anything that looks
hopeful, but with all the creative energy out here on the net... :-)

Thanks in advance.

-- Libby

-----------------------------

From: Timothy Winslow <poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us>
Subject: rn help
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:28:33 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I use rn (please do not try to convince me to use another reader, I am happy
I use rn, and don't care to switch).

I need a small favor of someone.  Can you please tell me how to shut off
subject search mode?  It always turns this on, and I hate it.  I prefer
reading messages in a forward newsgroup item number manor.

Please write e-mail, as I do not read this group.

Thank you.

-- 
Weird Al is a God!					CO Life is for me!
       poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us                  or 
                                    Timothy_Winslow@solaria.mil.wi.us
Life is strange, but so are you!			I like me!    :P

-----------------------------

From: DAVIDHO@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu
Subject: Can linux run on IBM PS/60? any other can do?
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:16:28 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

Does anybody know if there is any Unix system can run on IBM PS2/60?
I heard of SCO Xenix 286? How good is it? Can it run X?
 
Do I have any other choice?
Any comment is appreciated. Please send to my email address.
 
davidho@dopey.rc.arizona.edu
 
David Ho

-----------------------------

From: Dances With Babes <tesco@bumetb.bu.edu>
Subject: Re:
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:23:39 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil



We are experiencing technical difficulties trying to get a Sun workstation
to recognize the Page-Up and Page-Down keys of a PC keyboard. We are telneted
in via TCP/IP using a TERM setting of vt220 and we also have a Wyse-370 
terminal connected as the console with a setting TERM setting of vt220.

We have even tried to map the keys through vi ... to no avail.
The terminfo file has no discernable entries for Page-Up and Page-Down for
TERM of vt220.

Anyone run into this problem or have any suggestions?
Please respond to tesco@bumetb.bu.edu

thanks...

-----------------------------

From: Chris Perez <chris@neon.rain.com>
Subject: How do I REALLY setup for 'cu' and 'uucico' use?
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:35:41 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I'm looking to get my Dell UNIX SVR4 2.2 to 'cu' out through
tty01h.  Yes, I've done lots of work on the files in an attempt
to get it running.  I'm looking to talk with someone at length off-line
about this.

Thanx,

Christopher Perez - chris@neon.rain.com
"Do NOT use this brain.  Abnormal."  The warning Igor ignored...

-----------------------------

From: Gary Merrick <gam@sun_jimh.mentorg.com>
Subject: modem question
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:33:01 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I am posting this for a friend. Please respond via email to
david_liu.san_jose_02@pdxml1.mentorg.com.

Are well-known brands of modems worth the price?

I have noticed a considerable price difference between
the "big name" brands of modems (like Hayes & Telebit),
and the lesser-known ones with similar capabilities.
Are there any advantages to paying extra money for a
big name brand of modem?

Two modems I'm presently considering purchasing are the
Logicode Quicktel 1414XV, and a similar one from Boca.
If anybody thinks this would be a poor choice, please
let me know.

Thanks in advance.

-----------------------------

From: Roupen Nahabedian <nahabed@ntmtv.uucp>
Subject: ESIX feedback
Keywords: ESIX
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:41:14 GMT
Originator: nahabed@nmtvs296
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I would like to hear from those who've used ESIX's (4.0.4) run-time 
system and development kit. How is it (pluses, minuses)? Is it 
worthwhile? ...

Thanks,
Roupen N.
--- 

-----------------------------

From: Russell Mosemann <mosemann@unlinfo.unl.edu>
Subject: Is there a nice menuing system available?
Keywords: menu
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:39:23 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil


   Is there a nice (customizeable, of course) menuing system available
that I could put new users into?  I've been playing around with
simple_menu, and I was wondering if there were any others I haven't seen.
--
Russell
mosemann@unl.edu

-----------------------------

From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@math.uh.edu>
Subject: Printing Postscript thumbnails?  Mpage doesn't work.
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:50:14 GMT
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I'm looking for a program to take a postscript file and print it with
several pages on one physical page (hopefully up to 32 thumbnails).  I have
mpage, but even though it advertises that it works on postscript files, it
doesn't.  I think it produces bad postscript code, because it does grind
for a while and actually spool something to the printer, but nothing
prints.  (It works fine on text files, though.)

Is there anything else out there that will do what I'm after?

Thanks!
--
 Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@math.uh.edu - 713/743-3466 - 685PGH
System Administrator:  University of Houston Mathematics Department
 Houston Centers for Advanced Scientific and Molecular Computation
Blob Shop Programmers: Database consulting and graphics programming

-----------------------------

From: "Jethro H. Greene" <jhgreen@cs.sandia.gov>
Subject: SetUID
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:54:08 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Originator: jhgreen@cs.sandia.gov
To:       info-unix@sem.brl.mil

I am trying to give certain paople (not in my group) read permission in 
all of my files.  I am now experimenting in using shell scripts with the 
SetUID bit set.  What kind of file does a SetUID script have to be?  Can
it simply be

	cat > reader
	(A bunch of password stuff)
	cat
	^D

	chmod 4711 reader


	---or---
	would I have to actually copy the script from the /usr/bin directory?

I don't really want to take the risk of experimenting with SetUID because 
I know that it is dangerous.  Could someone explain SetUID to me or suggest
a good source?


Thanks in advance,
Jed
---

-----------------------------


End of INFO-UNIX Digest
***********************