HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Summary: What is a bad comparison?
Keywords: comparison
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:41:49 GMT

In article <TDWU.92Apr14233040@faust.mit.edu> tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu
(Thomas Wu) writes:
>..."Accomplishments" (even defined as narrowly as Dwight
>defines them) of societies may fluctuate over time, but "cultures"
>(not government/economic/political circumstance) remain relatively
>constant over time.  

Baloney.  Accomplishments are measured not only in technical terms
but also in social terms.  Martin Luther King was largely successful
in transforming a portion of American culture in the 60s.

>...
>Here is Dwight Joe's reasoning.  Let q(t,c) be the average quality of
>automobiles at time t for country c.  Then, q(1992,Japan) > q(t,US)
>for all t.  Therefore, Japanese culture is superior to US culture,
>which is one ..

No.  This is Mr. Wu's reasoning.  Mr. Wu is taking a single aspect
and extrapolating from that.  In order to make conclusions about
cultures and societies, one must look at a broad spectrum of activities.
An automobile doesn't constitute a broad spectrum.

However, a broad spectrum would include but is not limited to
(1) medicine, (2) political science, (3) social behavior, (4) technology,
etc.  From each, one might take as examples, (1) penicillin, (2)
freedom of the press [or the whole Bill of Rights], (3) equality
of people of all sexes and ethnicities, (4) computers, etc.
Across a broad spectrum, the Western societies and some non-Chinese
Eastern societies are all superior to Chinese society and culture--
a very inhuman culture at that.

Of course, a Chinese might say basically what Mr. Wu just said.  Namely,
he might blabber that the Chinese built the hydrogen bomb and hence
"beat" many other Western nations in that techology.  However, that 
certainly doesn't make Chinese society superior.  On the contrary,
it just goes to show how savage Chinese culture really is.  There
are, in fact, some Chinese who point to Chinese weapons development
as a source of technological "triumph".  If that isn't barbaric, what is?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: SUMMARY: Which universities have AA departments?
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:27:14 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University

Thanks to all who replied.  Not a lot to go on here; I was hoping to hear
from someone at Stanford.  Feel free to follow up with additions.

UC Berkeley:  a large and active department.
	"I used mostly AAS classes to satisfy the social studies and
	humanities requirements." -- Terry Cheung <tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov>
	An old general catalog lists the coordinator as L. Ling-chi Wang, M.A.,
	"so I guess it's not really a huge department." -- Jeannie
	<c9c-dk@danube.berkeley.edu>
	Also Gary H
UC Santa Barbara:  AA courses offered.
	"We have a section in our schedule of courses that is called Asian
	American Studies.  I don't know if this is a department but it's
	a start."  Courses listed for Spring 1992 include:
		Introduction to Asian American Literature
		Amerasians
		Asian-American Gender Relations
		The Japanese-American Experience
		The Filipino-American Experience
		Asian-American Communities
		Asian-American Education
		Asian-American Films
		Asian-American Visual Media 
	-- Mathew Waywe Yee <upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Chicago:  unknown.
	"I guess my university has such a program." -- Paul Tsi Hang Ho
	<th12@midway.uchicago.edu>
Oberlin:  an Asian studies department with a few AA courses.
	"The department does not specialize in Asian-American studies, but
	a few courses on that specific subject are offered." -- Michael
	c/o Otto Titsling <SMB2866@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu>
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shay@osiris (George Shay)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:59:34 GMT

raja@bombay.cps.msu.edu (Narayan S. Raja) writes:


>Other stereotypes I encountered were that
>Indians are "cunning" and "hide their
>real feelings."  A weird stereotype:
>``Indian men have many wives.''   (I wish!)

I have never heard of that. That explains why I can not find any woman to
become my wife.


>Narayan Sriranga Raja.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Raju@brown.edu (Raju Ramakrishnan)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Brown University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:54:40 GMT

In article <69988@ut-emx.uucp>, vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
> and WHY ? My personal experience has been that Caucasian women are very
> liberal when it comes to social interaction but Orientals are a bit
> restricted but I wouldn't say that I have found an overt bias as such.

   Have you ever dated an East Asian woman?  It sounds like you have had
experience dating White women, but this was the first Asian woman that
you have been interested in.  Even before talking to her about her views
on these issues you have not only developed an attitude for her, but all
Asian women.  You have somehow decided that what a couple of your
friends told you something about Asian women's views must be true.
   This type of generalizing is *so* dangerous.  The more you restrict
*her* options in you mind, the more restricted she will seem to you.
You will have missed out on the chance to ask her out and to really know
the answers to your questions.  Even then, she will be only *one* Asian
woman, and even that would not be enough for you to make a generalization.
You will have to have a similar experience with many other Asian women.
   It doesn't sound like a bad task though :-)  I'm sure you'll have fun!
..>Raju
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:37:28 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: usa

shay@osiris (George Shay) writes:
|Be honest, I will not let my sister date an Indian unless I know this guy
|very well, sure he has nice personality and good education. Before that I
|will not let her do it. Personally I do not hate indians, in fact, my
|advisor was an Indian, and I do appreciate he gave me a lot of help.

Do you hold other potential mates for your sister to the same standards
of nice personality and good education?  If not, why do you hold those
who are Indian to such standards, seemingly confirming the stereotype
referred to in the article subject?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians - Originator
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 15:22:34 GMT

In article <70339@ut-emx.uucp> vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
>
> Hi SCAA readers,
>
>	Do Caucasians and Orientals (raised in this country and probably
>looking up at the Caucasians as ideal people/friends) think that just 
>because a person is dark skinned, he/she is less intelligent/smart/COOL
>than they are ?

  Not me.  But then again, I don't represent everyone.
>	Take any movie shot in an Asian/Arab nation and here's what you
>will see : LOT's of turbanned people, dilapidated houses, dark skinned
>natives, guys carrying monkeys on a chain (?), veiled women, haggling
>merchants, some one with a sword/scimitar chasing our Caucasian friend
>Indiana or James Bond. Have you ever seen any movies which show the
>industrialized/educated facets of these countries ? How many people know
>that India is a Non-Aligned (neither Russia nor America) nation which
>has launched satellites in space, has nuclear capability and is YET
>peaceful (No STAR-WARS or Hiroshima), has super-computers for weather
>prediction, a BIG industrial sector in textiles, automotives, chemicals
>pharmaceuticals, petrochemical industries, communications, computer
>manufacture and a lot more ? Compare this with how many people here know
>about the former image (Indiana Jones) and the caste system and the cows
>and the mysterious Hindu Gods !

  I know about India's capabilities.  In fact, many computer software
  companies are moving their programming and software development to
  India, because of the highly skilled labor pool.
>vishram
>(vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
>
>PS: Just a curious question here : Why is it that a lot of Orientals
>either raised here or students from Asia adopt a Caucasian name like
>John/Bob/Max but ALL Indians retain their Indian names (or Indian
>kids raised here have Indian names). This could well be the topic of
>another controversial discussion.
> 

  I was given an English name by my mom.  She was given an English
  name by her English teacher.  That is interesting.  Right now, I'm
  hard pressed to think of an Indian-American with an English name,
  and I know a lot!  Oh...I've got one.  Anita Govindjee.  If you're
  reading this, "hi!"
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: English Only Movement
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:16:13 GMT

In article <sacleINNskp@agate.berkeley.edu> stewartk@garnet.berkeley.edu (Stewart J. Kong) writes:
>
>fathers of America intentionally chose NOT to have a national language so    
>
>that 200 years later, this movement becomes a dispute.  What I'm saying is 

Uh, slight correction here. The founding fathers did choose a national language
and it was English. At that time, there were 2 major languages in the United
States; English and German. There were actually more people who spoke German
natively than English, so the choice of language would be difficult. There
was considerable anti-British sentiment at the time, but there was some
resentment against the more southern areas (which contained the bulk of the
German-speaking population) for their relatively passive role in the rebellion.
When it finally was put to a vote (by the Constitutional Congress, I believe),
English was selected over German by a single vote.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:3716 soc.culture.taiwan:7609 soc.culture.china:13213
From: blee@digi.lonestar.org (Benjamin Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: >>  UNDERDOG: WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR MIND.
Keywords: predestination
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:18:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

Well, the guy is probably toasted good by now. I'm not usually would jump
in like this. Except I am sort of curious how Mr. Dwight got into his mind
set. Maybe he had received too much atrocity through broad-cast which is too
drastically different from his previous believes. I would like to see people
in this net-land be a little more patient sometimes as we are all human beings.
AND, do remember, YOU, soon or later, will be in his shoes and you sure
don't want what happened to you too harsh, aren't you?

As for Mr. Dwight, I guess the title is not quite fair to you, but please look
it as if these people is using unusually dramatic way to catch your attention.
Maybe you just had stepped on their big toes and you really can't complain too
much if people been denied of their value. I'm not going to argue with you the
merit of Chinese history even that does cross my mind for a couple of minutes.
But I believe you are an intelligent man and you ought to find the truth your
own. Good Luck!
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I'm a Stairmasters Junkie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: re China never as prosperous as Europe?
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:39:12 GMT
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I'm a Stairmasters Junkie)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
	> Of course, a Chinese might say basically what Mr. Wu just said.  
	> Namely, he might blabber that the Chinese built the hydrogen 
	> bomb and hence "beat" many other Western nations in that 
	> techology.  However, that certainly doesn't make Chinese 
	> society superior.  On the contrary, it just goes to show how 
	> savage Chinese culture really is.  There are, in fact, some 
	> Chinese who point to Chinese weapons development as a source 
	> of technological "triumph".  If that isn't barbaric, what is?

Tsk tsk tsk. You really do have a selective memory don't you? If your
new criteria for barbarism is now weapon superiority, you seem to
have forgotten that not only did the United States develop an atom
bomb but they also **USED IT***.

If that isn't barbaric, what is?

	Melinda
From: chrchan@ocf.berkeley.edu (Christopher S. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 10 Apr 1992 06:38:24 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu


Mark Day(mday@lcs.mit.edu) makes some interesting points on the
differences between race and culture.  I'll certainly consider,
them and I'm glad that his response wasn't so inflammatory (like
some of the others I got).  My original post was in no way
supposed to be inflammatory.

But I'd like to point out one clear example of how race (actually
ethnicity (I don't want Dwight Joe coming down on me here)) effects
culture.  This case involves whites.  Whites have married 
interethnically to such a high degree, that we call them "whites"
instead or European Americans or Polish Americans or Italian Americans
or whatever.  With few exceptions, there are
no longer discernable distinctions between the various cultures
of European Americans.  We just call it white culture.  But if you
go to Europe, there are clear distinctions between what is German,
what is French, etc.  Wait...  This is actually a bad example.

Anyways, someone else pointed out that Chinese American and Japanese
American women marry interracially 80% of the time.  Not surprisingly,
since these two groups are probably the most assimilated among Asian
Americans, as opposed to the more recently arrived AA's (Filipinos,
Southeast Asian, and Korean).  I guess I wasn't advocating racial
purity as much as I was trying to encourage people to recognize
and reclaim their heritages, even whites, who I think should try
to embrace their European backgrounds.  I think it would
add a great deal to this country.  Still, I believe that when
people of different cultures marry, there'll certainly be
conflicts.  Someone's culture has got to give, and I think this
is a bad thing.  

Chris Chan
chrchan@ocf.berkeley.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Keywords: culture, heritage
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:05:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.074803.13635@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>In article <HIEBELER.92Apr11141811@passion.think.com> hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler) writes:
>>In article <s3d50INN8pq@agate.berkeley.edu> chrchan@ocf.berkeley.edu (Christopher S. Chan) writes:
>	Nth-generation Asian Americans?  N must be = to 1 or 2.

Why?  I guess, according to you, people like Andrew and I do not exist.
<no smiley here>

>Eureopean culture is difficult to preserve purely in US since American
>culture is a mixture of verious European cultures.  Besides, A new 
>European emigrant may look as "American" is it can be.  But an Asian
>always look Asian.  Asian culcure is also much easier to be preserved
>considering the cultural differences.  The existence of the Asian 
>communities (et, Chinatown, Japantown, etc.) is evident of the cultural
>gap.  They also help to preserve the Asian cultures.

There are also Italian, Greek, German, Jewish, etc. neighborhoods that
preserve those cultures.

>	I agree that it's meaningless to "reclaim" the lost culture.
>
>>  In fact, over the past few years, I have decided that I will
>>"reclaim" Chinese culture.  It's my decision, right?  So I am learning
>>Chinese language and culture, and greatly enjoying it so far.
>
>	Interesting analogy.  Maybe I'll consider "reclaim"_ing German
>culture.  :)

There are many towns in Texas that have predominantly German culture.  Very
nice towns to visit, I might add.
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Do we need a special AA language? (AA literary culture )
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:57:05 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr3.134841.2021@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes:

|>   I was under the impression that AA writers have a lot of trouble
|>   making it because (a)the AA market is not large enough to support
|>   AA writers; (b)the mainstream(eg, white) market has trouble accepting
|>   AA writers.   Therefore, who do you propose these activist AA
|>   writers sell their books to?   They gotta eat, ya know.
 
Yup--I completely missed the point.  The quintessential AA value is
materialism; therefore, the truest AA voice is the one that sells
the most books.  :-/
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:57:56 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <11999@tamsun.tamu.edu> achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
>[stuff deleted]
>|> 	This friend just asked me to FORGET THE GIRL. He told me that
>|> no Oriental girl will go for an Indian.

>Good deal!  Now if only we can get the CM's to consult us first, too....
Hey Andrew, you forgot the smiley face.  Some people who aren't familliar
with you might get the wrong idea if they ignored your sig.

>Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
>achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
>                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *


--
Mathew Yee
upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
"This life is a test - it is only a test.  If this had been an actual life,
 you would have been told where to go and what to do!"
From: oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Woodrow S Oshiro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:44:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr15.201930.16572@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>Asian comics are a very rare breed.  I don't know whether this is common in
>Asians in Asian, but I have met more than a few 1st-generation Asians who
>do not get any joke whatsoever.  Not that they are trying to be difficult
>or offended; they simply take everything literally and do not see the
>"alternative" meaning of a phrase necessary to get a joke.

You are talking about first generation Asian Americans, aren't you?  The
explanation seems quite obvious to me.  They have not gained the "cultural
experience" necessary for the appreciation of humor in America.  Humor is
often based upon subtleties of expression.  In turn, these subtleties are
based upon American culture.  Just because an immigrant understands English  
on a technical level, it does not mean that he understands the culture which
surrounds the language.

By the way, the Japanese have a long tradition of humor, and there are
many humorists in Japan today.

>  Is this inability
>to get jokes common?  (If this *is* a common trait, it is discouraging to
>those of us who want to be comics for Asian audiences :-)

Anyone ever hear of the claim that if it wasn't for Mark Twain there wouldn't
have been any humor in ninteenth century America?  Anyone ever hear the claim
that the Jewish people brought humor to America?

-- 


						Woody Oshiro
						oshiro@en.ecn.purdue.edu
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Lack of AA literary culture (was New topic!)
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:09:00 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

[stuff about the lack of a pseudo-standard Asian pidgeon English]

I really hope there is never such a thing.  I believe it is possible to
have an Asian-American flavor without needing pidgeon.  Someone in an earlier
post said it can be done using foreign phrases sprinkled in the text.  I have
read a few works which used this technique and it worked.
-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
the hapa haole
(or more precisely the hakka haole)
(or even more precisely, the hapa hakka hapa haole, or h^4)
From: kniaz@cat6.cs.wisc.edu (Joel Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinatown unsafe?
Keywords: fairy tales
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:17:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: daffy.1992Apr15.141738.27456
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Apr14.015638.18517@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin) writes:
>
>	Hmmm... all this talk about Chinatown being unsafe has gotten me
>thinking. I used to hang out with some Chinese gangsters in NYC and we
>never really had any real trouble. 
>						Mikeey

	Riiight... If I hung out with a bunch of guys with a reputation
	for breaking kneecaps with their foreheads, I wouldn't expect
	to have any trouble with _anyone_.   :>
								-JOK
     ______________________________________________________________________
    / "Lo, Though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death,       /
    \    I fear not!                                        ______________\
    /  For I am the biggest son-of-a-bitch in the valley." / My favorite  /
    \______________________________________________________\ expression...\
    / Joel Kniaz   kniaz@garfield.cs.wisc.edu  kniaz@jomby /      __i     /
    \______________________________________________________\_yiLballe(Mu)_\
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american