HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Fighting Racism?
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:26:02 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) writes:

>Believe it or not, but I *never learned* the national anthem in school! 
>Back in the strange 70s it was more or less banned from school.

Ah, those myth-surrounded 70s! Actually, it must have depended on what
school you attended. You see, I entered 1st grade in 1970, and left
9th grade in 1979, and I sure did learn the national anthem somewhere
during that period. So there!

>The 
>principal in question probably still lives in that decade.

Of course, the incident which caused this thread was rather absurd.

>Tomas
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall				 	Voice: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, "Alvsj"o, Sweden	Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall				 	Voice: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, "Alvsj"o, Sweden	Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
		"Bryna nuppa fj{ssa sp}nken" - Razor
From: leisti@cc.helsinki.fi (Teemu Leisti)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen.
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:27:45 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr6.152756.20073@athena.mit.edu>, raustein@athena.mit.edu
 (Yngve Koehler Raustein) writes:

> Yes, the 900-numbers.  (Have they introduced anything similar to the
> toll free 800-numbers in Scandinavia?)

In Finland, there are the 9800-numbers, which cost only a single local
phone call fee (49 penni = 10 cents).  Then there are the 9700-numbers,
which can cost a load and are used for distinctly rip-off purposes. 
Example:  Every day in the "Housing for rent" section of the classifieds
of Helsingin Sanomat, there's an ad that touts over 100 available
apartments, exhorting the reader to cease calling around in vain.  And
calling this number only costs about 15 mk (about $3.50) a minute.  A TV
program once called this number.  The person at the other end was *very*
slow in taking down "information necessary for us to give you optimum
service" and then announced that they had nothing available at the
moment, but would you please try again tomorrow.  Yeah, sure.

At least the law seems to require them to print the price of the call
along with the number, since all 9700-number-adverts have it.  The PTT
probably isn't too motivated to control the abuse, since they make a
part of the profit, as far as I know.

--  Teemu Leisti  /  U. of Helsinki, Finland  /  leisti@cc.helsinki.fi

The Net:  A wonderful invention enabling one to make enemies
          quickly and easily across the globe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: raustein@athena.mit.edu (Yngve Koehler Raustein)
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:59:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.151322.13422@eua.ericsson.se>, euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes:

|> Apparently, subsidies should ideally be payed to all. All gain, beacuse
|> all are users, and all lose because all pay taxes. Of course, some people,
|> all people, wnat to gain more than the others and pay less. So they
|> change their way of life so as to get as much subsisies as possible,
|> and to pay as little tax as possible. You have very strong economic
|> incentives to live your life this way. THIS WAY IS NOT THE WAY THE
|> POLITICIANS INTENDED WHEN THEY DECIDED ABOUT THE TAXES AND SUBSIDIES.
|> It is not the way you would have chosen to live if you had not had
|> these incentives. If you want to live any other way, you have to pay
|> twice, once for those who live the susidised way, and once for yourself.
|>
There will always be people who use the system for their own benefit, but you're
pretty paranoid if you think that this actually amounts to paying twice the
amount you would have to pay for your own expenditures.  Are you saying that
you object to paying taxes for those unable to care for themselves?

The basic idea behind taxes in a social democracy is that those who earn the
most pay the most, thus supporting those less fortunate.  There are, of course,
lots of loopholes, so it seems that the ones in the "middle class" (if there is
any well-defined middle class) end up paying the most...  However, I still 
prefer the Scandinavian model to the American model (puke, puke!)
 
|> It is obvious Swedes have a potential of increasing their democratic
|> freedom.

It's funny the way some people use the words "freedom" and "democracy" 
synonymously with "lower taxes", "more privatization", "no TV license fee",
"cheaper booze" etc. ad nauseum.  

It would be interesting to see if you could actually put together a coherent
and constructive criticism of the Swedish welfare state, not just "all we
need is lower taxes and more `freedom'."  Also, how do you envision a "perfect"
Sweden?

Yngve 

-- 
Yngve K. Raustein		| ``We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh 
362 Memorial Drive		| Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed, 
Cambridge, MA 02139		| flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into a 
617-225-7343 			| fondue and garnished with lark's vomit.''
From: asgeir@cs.umd.edu (Asgeir Karl Olafsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Ruling parties in Norden
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:32:36 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Apr13.174114.16796@gvl.unisys.com> armagan@prc.unisys.com writes:
>Could someone tell me what the current ruling parties in Nordic countries
>(Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark) are? Where do those parties
>stand in the political spectrum (social democrat, socialist, far-right,
>center-right, etc.)?

In Iceland there is a coalition government, formed by Sjalfstaedisflokkur
(Independence Party) and Althyduflokkur (People's Party).
Althyduflokkur is a social democratic party.  Sjalfstaedisflokkur is a
far-right/center-right party, depending on you definition.

I would say the government's policies are more to the right than left.

- Asgeir.
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Fighting Racism?
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:51:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: sics.1992Apr8.075134.7960
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Originator: lhe@yang.sics.se

In article <10846@chalmers.se>, d9bertil@dtek (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>
>  There are a little school in a corner of Sweden where the students in the
>ninth and last year of Grundskolan [Elementary School?] organize the 
>graduation cermonies themselves.
>
>  This year however a nasty rumour reached the ears of the Principal. 
>It said that the students had planned to sing the Swedish national anthem at
>one point during the graduation cermonies. The Principal immediately 
>interposed himself and told the pupils that they were forbidden to sing the
>Swedish national anthem on graduation because of "racist connotations".

The very sad truth is that racist and extreme right organisations are
monopolising the Swedish national flag and national anthem.

Such organisations display the flag and sing the anthem much more than
Swedes in general. This inevitably leads to strange reactions such as
that of this headmaster.
-- 
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Jakob Nielsen <nielsen@bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: question for Macintosh users in Sweden
Organization: Bellcore - Bell Communications Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
     <STEINARB.92Apr13163000@spirea.idt.unit.no>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:50:11 GMT

You can download the Swedish system software for the Mac from
ftp.apple.com
in a directory called something like
/dts/mac/syssoft/intl
(note, the last two names are approximate).
--
Jakob Nielsen, nielsen@bellcore.com, fax (201)  829-2645
Bellcore, MRE 2P-370, 445 South St., Morristown, NJ 09792-1910, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Ruling parties in Norden
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 10:39:47 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.221415.6857@lth.se>, sundinKC@dna (Anders Sundin) writes:
>Correct me if I am wrong but should we not compare like this (I pull out my
>trusted HP calculator). Lets say that one US $ is 6 kr.
>
>Swedish taxes as above                            US taxes as above
> 300000                     "Cost of salary"                50000
>-111000  37%           employer tax | social sec    15%     -7500    
>-------                                                    ------
> 189000                         "Salary"                    42500
>-103950  34.65% (=55% of    Federal+local tax       38%     19000    
>-------          189 kkr)                                  ------

What are you doing here?!? 55% is the *marginal* tax rate. You only
pay the 20% state tax on the amount that exceeds 190000 (1991
figures)! In this particular example, you would pay no state tax at
all, but only the local taxes that are, on the average, 30% (35% is
very high). Before calculating the local tax, you deduct 10000, so
you get 30% of 179000 which is 53700. This gives gives 135300 after
income tax.

>  85050                  Money left for consumption         23000
> -18711  22% (18-25)         Tax on consumtion       5%      1150
>-------                                                    ------
>  66339                      What we have left              21850

This step is not correct either. 22% is the average (well!) VAT amount
on the price *whithout* VAT. You should compute the VAT amount from
*what you pay*, which is 1-1/(1+0.22)=18% in the Swedish case and
1-1/(1+0.05)=4.8% in the US case (but that's no big deal). 


With the correct figures, you get

 135300                  Money left for consumption         23000
 -24354  18%                 Tax on consumtion       5%      1150
-------                                                    ------
 110946                      What we have left              21850

>Then the swedish taxpayer has 66,339 kr ($11,056) left while the american
>has 131,100 kr ($21,850).

Actually, the Swedish taxpayer gets 110946 kr ($18491).

One should really also consider that there is no VAT on insurance in Sweden.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: gudmund@gorgon.forut.no (Gudmundur Joekulsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Hard times in Norway?
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:45:32 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

In <1992Apr9.094724.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> nindola@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

>These are hard times for the western world I think. It's comforting
>to see that old wisdom still applies - you can't eat more than you 
>earn. In Finland and the other Nordic countries this means that
>you can't create jobs in the public sector when the motor (industry)
>is too small.

>Niklas Indola

Sorry, but I cant resist adding my thoughts here....

What is called economical crises in one country, may be considered to be
normal or even quite good in aother.  

Unemployment in Norway has risen from practicaly nothing, to about 5%
the last few years.  In the rest of Europe it is between 8 and 10% and
has been for quite many years, f.ex. in england under the whole
Tatcher era.  Norway has POSITIVE trade balance with the world, has
the shortest working hours in the world, aboute 150K people living on
official *disabled* support (about the same number as are unemployed),
practicaly no foreign loans, etc. etc...

Despite the unemployment, Icelanders in the late 70's would have
considered this to be about as good as you could dream of, a POSITIVE
trade balance is something we thought only the Japanese could have (or
even something they invented to make us feel bad).

The real course of the Economical crisis talk in Norway, is the
interest rate.  Running 15% interests when the inflation is 2%, is
bound to have consequences.  This is in my mind the course of the dept
crisis (gjelds krisen) of privat investors and house byers, and the
same goes for the industry, with small companies, low own
start-capital rate (sorry I dont remeber the right term here) and
with big loans, and hence bancrupty and unemployment.

There are only TWO ways out:  

1. let down the interests (this makes the bankers scream *what are we
supposed to live by*, and the economists say *this is going to course
a flight of capital out of the country, to other countries with higher
interests*). 

2. let the inflation up a little (this makes all the economists shout
*it says in Ringstad (the book the norwegian sivil-economists read at
the NHH - norwegian trades scool) that inflation is not good for your
nation's helth*.

3. the no-way, but most likely to be the one chosen by the
politicians: to join the EC and hope it will couse enough confusion
to hide the problem, or at least make everyone blame the EC byrocrats
for the f...up.


Happy easter (yes I am starting my holliday today, why do you think I
live in Norway)...


gudmundur,

************************************************************************
Gudmundur Joekulsson              Greetings from the edge of nowhere ...
gudmund@forit.forut.no
FORUT IT Forhaapningen 21-b, po.box 2806 Elverhoy
N-9001, TROMSO, NORWAY
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: I desperately need lower taxes.
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:18:21 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen) writes:
>If you can't afford paying the fire insurance for a 2 million (X)
>house, then your house probably isn't worth 2 million (X) anyway.

>If you can't afford paying the health insurance for a 2 million (X)
>surgery, then your life probably isn't worth 2 million (X) anyway.

>It actually makes sense once you have the right mind set.

Yes it does. Imagine the cure of a common cold costs $1,000,000,000.
Every Swede has two colds a year. Can we actually afford to pay
$18,000,000,000 every year? Would it be easier to pay it via taxes,
raising the amount to, say, $25,000,000,000 because of the inefficiency?

Surgery won't cost more because you pay it without involving the taxman.
It will cost less.
--
  ______                     _~
 (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars P. Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Who'll be the next American President?
Date: 30 Mar 92 22:43:45 GMT
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University

>>>>> "Lyle" == Lyle Davis (lyled@pnet05.cts.com)

Lyle>         While this message is non-nordic in nature I offer it on
Lyle> the assumption that norden may well have an interest at least as
Lyle> much as who the next ruler is in America as they do in Russia or
Lyle> the member states of CIS.

Oh, no, Lyle, please, won't you do us all the favour of learning how
news is supposed to work? It would make things so much easier. Really.
Lyle, there really *is* a point to having a number of newsgroups,
each with a specific topic. That way people get to select what they
want to discuss, and when.

I don't know about you, but I do read other newsgroups besides s.c.n. I
even participate actively in some. I also have other sources of
information, like a newspaper. I might or I might not care about the
US president. I might or I might not like to read about the election.
That's my business. You might feel that I ought to be interested, but
please don't force your ideas on me. I want a choice. If you want to
tell me about the US and your president, fine. Go ahead, post to a
relevant newsgroup and I just might read it.

What really bugs me is this: 99% of USENET is about the US and US
matters. s.c.n. is one of the few groups I read that is not, or at
least should not be. Lyle, there are *so* many places where you can go
talk about the US president election. If we are to talk about the US
here, where am *I* to go to talk about Scandinavia?

Please, Lyle, your I know that your not a moron like Hasan B. Mutlu.
There's no need for to you act like one. Take a clue from Jazz:
silence is as important as sound.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 9 Apr 92 06:47:49 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

eric@sejnet.sunet.se (Eric Thomas, SUNET) writes:

>What is so intrinsically bad with paying VAT on energy tax?

Simple. When you have two value added taxes, they should both be
calculated on the *value*. To add them in series is no technical
necessity. It's fraud. The politicians say "We add VAT to the
energy prices," but they add it to *both* energy prices *and*
energy taxes, in effect rising the energy taxes without having
to declare this.
--
  ______                     _~
 (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
__/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:02:57 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <10764@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>  (1) How do you translate 'taxeringsmyndigheten'? IRS?

  Usually correct sources claims that the proper translation is Taxation 
Assessment Authority/Department.

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tcarr@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Thomas Carr)
Subject: Re: Looking for "Sweden Now" Magazine
Summary: no longer exists
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:16:01 GMT

In response to Eric Pabo, who's looking for "Sweden Now" for his mother:

Unfortunately, Sweden Now is no longer being published. My fiancee, Lisa
Werner, worked for a publishing company in Malm| called Scandinavian News
AB. This company bought the rights to the magazine in 1990 (I think; maybe
1989) after it fell on hard times, she says. Sweden has been experiencing a
slump in advertising just like the U.S., with similar results. Sweden Now
relied on "image advertising" -- big, pretty ads from large Swedish
companies and multinationals. But when the economy fails, this kind of
advertising is the first to go -- it just doesn't present a great image to
spend thousands of kronor on advertising while you're shutting down plants
and putting people out of work. This is an oversimplification, but it's
basically what happened.

Scandinavian News AB hasn't been having an easy time supporting its own
international publications (trade-oriented; not what you're looking for,
Lisa says), and hasn't been able to resurrect the magazine as they hoped
to. She joined the company believing that this was one of the magazines
she'd be writing for.

Lisa says she regularly received letters from all over world, forwarded to
Malm|, asking about the magazine. The staff just let them pile up; she took
it upon herself to answer as many as possible. Many were from young people
who wanted to move to Sweden from Iran, Romania, the former Soviet Union.
Others were from irritated libraries. She says fielding these letters was
one of her favorite parts of her her job. She made some long-distance
friends (even got a marriage proposal; I wasn't thrilled).

If you would like to correspond directly with Scandinavian News to find out
the status on Sweden Now, write to:

Ulf Martensson, publisher
Scandinavian News AB
Box 405
S-201 24 Malm|

This company also owns, by the way, Nordstjernan Svea, the Swedish-American
weekly.

Tom Carr/Lisa Werner


P.S. Thanks to all who answered our request for information on marriage and
Norway. Looks like we're getting married (officially) here in Chicago, and
heading off to Ardahl for a more meaningful "unofficial" ceremony of our
own.
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:56:18 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Apr8.100956.21440@kth.se> tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>Perhaps you have AXE in T{by, but where I live (Nacka) we have to bear with
>the old electromechanical switch station another two years or so.

  Besides, Telev{rken can't even manage to tranfer from the old systems to
AXE without having to change the telephone numbers!

>Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
From: eric@sejnet.sunet.se (Eric Thomas, SUNET)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Swedish Prime minister says Sweden gaining democratic freedom
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:21:55 GMT
Reply-To: eric@sejnet.sunet.se
Organization: Swedish University Network (SUNET), Stockholm, Sweden
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-5

In article <1992Apr14.092637.16007@eua.ericsson.se>, euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik.Ostman) writes...
>In my opinion, I have a democratic right to my country and to my culture.

Of course you do. But your "country" and "culture" are defined by the
collective democratic rights of the swedish population. That may be very
different from what you would want it to be, in which case I guess it is no
longer "your" culture but "the swedish" culture.

>Only cowards run away from problems instead of solving them.

Oh, please. What takes more courage, staying in one's country and whining on
usenet about the economical/financial situation, or moving to another country
where you don't know anyone and can't even speak the local language?

  Eric
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2686 soc.culture.europe:3572 eunet.politics:593
From: news@comlab.ox.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of EU (was Re: Increasing EU opposition in Denmark)
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:34:54 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK

In article <1992Apr6.175845.19058@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>The stronger argument:  If there are no restrictions on who can live
>where, then those individuals with the most need of social
>services (e.g. the chronically unhealthy or unemployable) will
>tend to move to the country with the highest benefits.  For example,
>if Sweden offers free AIDS care while Britain does not, British
>AIDS patients will just move to Sweden (hypothetically).  Of course,
>many AIDS patients will not move if they have gainful employment
>in Britain and can't get it in Sweden, but given high medical
>costs, the incentives to move are clearly there.

Actually, without further radical change in the E.C. this is impossible.
You have to be *resident* in an E.C. (i.e. have paid its Taxes for a
while) to take advantage of non-emergency health services etc.  If you
get a major chronic illness you tend to get shipped right back to
the country you are a citizen of.   Even for emergency care you tend
to get a much tougher (costly!) deal in most E.C. countries than citizens.

Andrew



        Andrew Stevens                  
      Programmming Research Group       JANET: Andrew.Stevens@uk.ac.oxford.prg
     11 Keble Road, Oxford, England     UUCP:  ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!ox-prg!as
     OX1 3QD   +44 0865 272563