HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adf@crosfield.co.uk (alex france)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: more imc
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:33:46 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <maverick.727996968@camelot> maverick@camelot.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen) writes:
>    Since we're all talking about VFR pilots is IMC, I have a question of
>my own.  I'm planning on getting my instrument ticket this summer.  What I
>want to know is how my flight sim 4 experience will transfer over. 

Last year I got my IMC rating (a UK only sorta 1/2 IFR rating) and
used FS4 quite a bit to practice procedures. As you might expect it
doesn't really help much with the actual flying of the plane much. I
don't know about your PC, but with my joystick FS4 tends to be much
less stable in attitude than the real thing and pegging altitudes
is actually harder than the real thing. And of course you are not
being fed the disorienting tips and turns that you get in a plane when
your in front of the PC.

However, I did find it useful for getting comfortable with all the
details of approaches like interception angles, wind correction
factors, altitudes and so on. It can also be good for practicing with
the ADF to make sure you really do understand how to get QDRs and QDMs
out of it (Does the US use Q codes?). I also found the ILS bit useful
for getting the hang of those little 'one step ahead' corrections that
keep the needles nicely crossed in the middle (well, inside 1/2 scale
deflection anyway :-)

I don't actually fly that much real IMC, so I've found that some time
on FS4 before going out to practice for real will certainly hone
the edges for the real thing.

Alex.

# Alex France, Crosfield Electronics, | Phone: +44 442 230000 xt.3541 #
# Hemel Hempstead, HP2 7RH, England.  | Email: adf@crosfield.co.uk    #
# AA5A, G-BEZI - more of a 'buzzin' than a 'hummin' Grumman.          #
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Engine Failure Due to Cold Engine?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:51:25 GMT

In article <81318@hydra.gatech.EDU> randy@cerl.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler) writes:
>
>On various trips up north, I've seen cold weather kits installed on 
>planes - basically a restriction on the cooling air intake.  (I've
>even seen one plane with duct tape covering part of the intake!)
>Does anyone on the net use these?  What temperatures are they recommended for?

What you're seeing is blocking over the air intakes for the cabin vents -
I've never heard of anyone blocking cooling air to the engine. A typical
cold weather kit for an air cooled engine consists of a thermal blanket
which wraps around the oil resevoir. This keeps the oil warm, which keeps
the engine warm. They're recommended by Continental for use at temperatures
below 20 degrees (on the ground).

Other tools for cold weather are insulated engine covers and prop covers,
multi-grade oils, and preheating. Me, I don't start up without preheat
if the temp's much below 30. I don't fly at all below 20. I have an engine
cover, but no cold weather kit. I intend to install one next month (annual
time).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be
George Patterson -  | afraid to sell the family parrot to the town
                    | gossip.
                    |                            Will Rogers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: randy@cerl.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: IMC/IFR: exactly why so difficult?
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:17:45 GMT
Organization: CERL/EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta

In article <1993Jan25.044915.21655@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>Why exactly are instrument conditions so dangerous? I can understand how they
>would require special training, but I've heard about how easily pilots can
>get out of control, crash, etc. Is it the loss of spatial awareness because
>there's nothing out there to see, or do clouds cause a plane to fly
>differently?

Basically, the airplane flies the same.  Certian types of clouds tend
to be bumpy, but the laws of aerodynamics don't change.  Ice accumulation
on the airplane can effect the airplane pretty drastically.  Rain and
water droplets can have a minor effect on some types of airfoils.  The
real problem is, as you mention, loss of spatial awareness.  In visual
conditions, you can see the horizon to keep your reference frame.  A fair
amount of this is automatic, your brain is use to using peripheral vision,
lighting clues, etc to keep track of which way is up.  Additionally, you
process signals from your inner ear to sense rotation and acceleration.
The problem is that when you are deprived of the visual references, all
your "natural" senses have to rely on are the signals from your inner ear,
which in an airplane are very easy to confuse.  This leads to false 
impressions of turning, climbing, etc.  A lot of IFR training is learning
to ignore these natural, built in impressions, and consciously read the
gauges, interpret them, and determine the necessary control inputs.
Especially when first entering a cloud (even for more experienced IFR pilots),
this switch of modes - ignoring the normal balance sense and reading the
gauges - takes some effort.

As an added factor, instrument flying (in controlled airspace) requires
communications with ATC, as well as fairly close tolerances on heading
and altitude, which can add to the distraction level, helping to disorient
and confuse the pilot.
-- 
Randal  Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech     
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: IMC/IFR: exactly why so difficult?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:49:15 GMT


This will be a dumb question to anyone here who's ever logged a minute, but
I really don't know.

Why exactly are instrument conditions so dangerous? I can understand how they
would require special training, but I've heard about how easily pilots can
get out of control, crash, etc. Is it the loss of spatial awareness because
there's nothing out there to see, or do clouds cause a plane to fly
differently?

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Triangles in the Desert
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:44:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <1k1kjpINN1rc@transfer.stratus.com>, I write:
> 
> About an hour into our cattle-class flight out of San Diego, headed towards
> a stop in Houston, I pressed my nose into the window and saw a sight on the
> ground in the desert that I can't identify.  I thought the net might be able 
> to help.
> 
> What I saw was a large equilateral triangle.  At first I thought it was an
(description deleted)

Another netter, Steve Cornelius (scornelius@ips.iacd.honeywell.com), who does 
not have the capability to post sent me the following response (and OK'd it 
for posting to the net).  I thought it was of sufficient interest to post.  
Here it is:
--------------

This info came from an ex-husband of a friend of the family, he is the crew
chief on a single-place F-16 stationed at Luke AFB.


There is an airway running from San Diego to Yuma AZ, then to Gila Bend AZ,
then to Stanfield VORTAC just south of PHX. Most of the airspace surrounding
this area is Restricted Airspace that is used for live-weapons training by
both Yuma MCAS and Luke AFB (west of PHX). Yuma has F-4s, F-18s, and the
occsional AV-8. Luke exclusively flies F-15s and F-16s both fixed and on
rotation from active groups.

Should you stray from the airway here, you may learn a new definition for
"enforcement action" :}

The triangular fields are emergency runways. They are normally 4000' to 5000'
long, and unpaved *if* the desert floor is hard enough (a few are paved, these
are located in sandy areas). The triangular shape is intended to provide a
headwind in most any case. Most were built back in the days of piston powered
fighters.

They are now considered a near-last-resort for a pilot with a sick airplane.
Once comitted to such a site, some damage (especially to undercarriage) is
expected, but the airplane may live to fly another day.

If a pilot in the exercise area has a problem with his airplane, he has these
options:

(1) Try to fly back to the base for a repair.
(2) Try to make Gila Bend AF Aux field for a limited repair.
(3) Find an emergency "triangle", cross thy fingers.
(4) Pull the handle, say "bye" to the airplane.


These fields are not on civilian charts. (Not that you should be there :)

---------------
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: Fishy PIREP
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:36:03 GMT

jav@crash.cts.com (Javier Henderson) writes:

>I just got my DUAT wx briefing for a flight later today, and the following
>PIREP showed up:

>Camarillo CA [CMA]: pilot report at Camarillo CA (CMA VOR) at 4:21 PST
>    (0021Z), at 4,500 feet a Piper Aircraft Coorp. Cherokee Six, Lance,
>    reported temperature 16C, smooth turbulence ... MACKERAL sky
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^

>That's exactly how DUAT translated the briefing. So...what exactly is a
>Mackeral sky? And should I carry a fishnet along?

>(I think the fish is spelled Mackarel though...si?)

No -- it's mackerel.  And amazingly enough, the dictionary where I looked
that up also defines "mackerel sky"!

mackerel sky (n):  a sky covered with rows of altocumulos or cirrocumulus
clouds resembling the patterns on a mackerel's back.

This Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary may be more useful than I
thought :-).
-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: devlin@avo.hp.com (Lee Devlin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: FBOs at JFK?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:44:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Santa Clara Site
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpavla.avo.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.5]

Gregory R. Travis (greg@saltydog.dpsi.com) wrote:

: La Guardia is not as bad as you might think.  The big problem with LGA, as
: well as National (DCA), are parking fees.  Last time I went into
: LGA (last summer), parking was bout $13-15 for every 8 hours.  The total
: LGA turnaround, landing at 8AM and leaving (for MVY) at 4PM was
: about $50.

: Teterboro still beats them all for the long-term stuff.

I would have to second Teterboro for flying to NYC.  The landing fee is
$4.50, Millionaire charges $15/night for a tie down and it is actually
*closer* to Manhattan than JFK.  A 20 minute bus ride to the city is
$2.50 and it drops you off right at Port Authority.

I took the Colt there about two months ago and it was easy even
though it seemed that I was the only non-turbine aircraft operation that
night :-).

Lee "Colt.... what's a Colt?" Devlin

Lee Devlin              | HP Little Falls Site  | phone: (302) 633-8697 
Piper Colt N4986Z       | 2850 Centerville Rd.  | email:
"Spirit of rec.aviation"| Wilmington, DE 19808  | devlin@lf.hp.com

From: jkj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jim Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:19:52 GMT
Subject: Wanted Museums along I-70
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc


     I am planning a trip from Fort Collins Co. to Wright Patterson to
     see some of the aircraft from my past and was wondering if any
     one knew of a list of aircraft museums or of ones along I-70?
     I have heard of : 
     The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center in Hutchinson
         Nasa Lewis Research Center Vistors Center in Cleveland
         Neil Armstromg Air & Space Museum in Wapakoneta
     
     I also hear thers a museum in Goodland. Does any one know of
     any others?

     Thanks.

     Jim Jackson email jk@fc,hp.com phone 1-303-229-2417
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
From: maverick@camelot.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen)
Subject: embry-riddle
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: rec
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:41:05 GMT

I'm looking for the address of a student at embry-riddle in Prescott, AZ.
I thought this might be an appropriate place to start looking.

Does anyone know an internet addr. to ERAU?


--
            __|__          Darin Petersen - PP-ASEL
     ________(*)________  Maverick@camelot.bradley.edu
            o/ \o    
            
              
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.misc:1489 rec.aviation.ifr:707
From: maverick@camelot.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen)
Subject: aviation quotes/bumper stickers
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: rec
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:21:50 GMT

    A friend and I were talking about the different quotes often heard or
seen on shirts/bumper stickers about aviation.
for example, "instrument pilots like it on top"
or the saying about the three most useless things to a pilot (fuel in
truck, air above, runway behind)

I thought there must be a huge collection of them lurking in the minds of
fellow netters.  So I wanted to see how many quotes people could come up
with.  If you know of one ,send e-mail.  I'll post all that I get in a
later article for everyone to enjoy.         

mail to maverick@camelot.bradley.edu
From: scottcr@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: why IFR = "real pilot"
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:19:32 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

Bill Kershner, famous aerobatics intructor, opens his book
_The Instrument Flying Flight Manual_ with the first paragraph
talking about VFR cross-country pilots...

..."grey-faced pinheaded holeseeker"...

continues with: ...One thing you'll notice as you work on the
rating is that all of your flying will become more precise...

He closes the book with:
...After you get the Instrument rating try not to be to lordly
with the non-instrument rated pilots at the airport...
...remember that those VFR types have been sitting on the
ground for a long time now, watching PILOTS like you taking
off into weather that has kept them haunting the weather
service office....

I won't say which camp I fall into.

Lets invite someone who has all the ratings; ATP + Aerobatics
instructor to comment on this.

-- 
Chris Scott,  C/E Public Radio,  Western KY Univ,  (502) 745-3834
SCOTTCR@WKUVX1.BITNET      fx off: 745-2084     fx hm: 781-1232
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Airline Liveries
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:10:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <1993Jan20.042857.24093@Armstrong.EDU> thomp962@Armstrong.EDU writes:

>I'm not too sure about the claim that American's livery is that old.
>Henry Dreyfuss did it sometime after the introduction of the Boeing 727,
>so it can't be anything over 25 years old, at most.  American had an
>absolutely horrible color scheme of International Blue and Orange. Hard to
>keep clean, and uglier than sin itself.

Horrible?  In the eyes of the beholder, I suppose.  I can't see that it
would've been terribly difficult to keep clean, since the planes were
kept in bare metal except for the lightning-bolt stripe and and logo decals.  

Ever noticed the soot that collects on the rear fuselages of white-painted 
727s and DC-9s after a few thrust reversals?



rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft) writes:

>The color scheme before the current red white and blue bands on American 
>was a "lightning streak" in red down the side of the fuselage.

It wasn't red, but orange.


>At that point United still had the old blue and red scheme (with stars?).

That was a (detrimental, IMHO) modification of the original theme.


>TWA had the old red stripe with the gold double globe on the tail.  I don't
>know what Northwest had, but they've certainly been through a new color
>scheme in the last few years.

That was about the time they adopted their recently-superseded "Northwest
Orient" scheme with the red tail (which had been an NWA trademark for quite
awhile, as a gold tail was for Continental) and the truncated broad black 
stripe. 

The TWA "Star Stream" livery, in its original form, didn't have the double
globe around the letters on the tail, which I didn't realize until fairly
recently when I saw some old photographs of 707s.


>Who does that leave?  Continental?  Well, they're in the middle of a
>new livery change.

That's too bad.  Continental's old livery was always one of my favorites,
especially the stylized globe design on the tail.  


>Which leaves Delta.  Every other US Airline is dead.  National, Braniff,
>Ozark, Hughes AirWest (the flying banana), North Central, Southern, PSA,
>Air Cal, Piedmont, Empire, PeopleExpress, Air Florida, Frontier, Midway,
>Pan Am.

I always thought National's paint scheme was a good one, and I liked their
face-against-the-sun logo.  Awhile back, I saw a photograph of a Braniff
DC-6 that was used to try out the new "Flying Colors" livery; it had been
painted green with the windows outlined in white.  Fairly attractive, I
thought.  But then, I liked Braniff's experimental "Reebok" scheme, too.



Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller			+ + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM	+ + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: United Airlines - Registration of Airbu
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:46:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com


rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft) writes:

>American has the best livery of the US airlines.  Also one of the oldest,
>along with Delta.

The current American Airlines livery has only been around since 1970, but
Delta has used theirs since the dawn of the jet age.  It's one of the best,
IMHO.



Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller			+ + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM	+ + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:56:47 EST
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: In the "System" - again
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: Usenet 3.0

Well, I certainly didn't wan't to start a flame war.

My original post was only to stop the idea that aerobatic pilots are
"out" of the "system" , do what they please, where they please, etc.
etc. In fact, some fly under much closer supervision of ATC and the
feds than IFR pilots. I do all of my flying inside a control zone, very
close to the tower, and they know exactly who I am, and
what I am doing. I can't afford to make a single mistake - the
priviledge the half-dozen or so of us who use the box is just too
precious.

Aerobatics is not about 'pulling Gs' or assorted 'I was there' stories.
It's about precision and energy management.

I didn't want to imply that one form of flying was 'better' or 'harder'
than another, only that there were wholly different skills involved.
And yes, I do have my 40 hours. (But no IFR airplane).
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: Ain't No Such Thing?
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:37:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

JAS> .Yes, I was wondering why there are NO LOW-COST GA JETS.

JAS> .What are these reasons?  I was under the impression that while
   > .modern jet engines may still be more thirsty than their internal
   > .combustion counterparts, there is a rather large mainenance
   > .savings.  Was I misinformed?

The maintenance cost is actually HIGHER for a typical jet engine.  I am
not aware of any jet engine for which the "hot section" cost is less
than 10,000.  They typically are more reliable than piston engines,
though, and usually last to "TBO."

JAS> .Where do the costs come from, besides economies of scale?
   > .Is there some large expense involved in certifications and/or
   > .instections for jets?

Jets are notoriously inefficient at low altitudes, so unless most of
your flying is going to be long enough range to allow sensible climbs to
the Flight Levels, you're going to eat an extraordinary amount of fuel.

There are a couple of GA-type jets that should be available shortly.
I've lusted after a "Leopard" since I saw the first announcement.  It's
a 4 seater; looks like an Archer, but it's powered by a couple of small
(600#) jets.  About a 1500 mile range, at 500kts.  But it cost about
$500k.  That's about twice what a Malibu Mirage costs.

To fly a jet you need a type rating, and don't even ask about insurance
requirements.

I'm sure there are other contraindications as well...

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: why IFR = "real pilot"
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:45:08 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <C1ACJL.46I.2@cs.cmu.edu>, dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
> Of course, if you're not interested in using an aircraft for transportation,
> then you don't need the skills to be "in the system".  If you get your
> jollies by landing your gyrocopter on frozen lakes, then go out and be the
> best frozen-lake-gyrocopter-pilot you can possibly be.  All of us here on
> rec.aviation will respect your for your specialized skills.  But the
> groundhogs -- the sort of folks who establish official policies on use of
> small planes for business travel -- will just think you're a weirdo with a
> death wish.  That's the way it is with groundhogs.


Believe it or not, it is possible to use an airplane for transportation
even without an IFR ticket!  I have for the past 15 years, having managed
to fly to Canada, the Grand Canyon, Mt. Rushmore, Devil's Tower, Oshkosh,
and Indiana twice.  I did all that without an IFR license and with a
minimum of delays.  The fact is, that in most cases where I have been
stopped on a flight, especially in the Midwest, I would not have continued
the flight if I had been rated IFR (thunderstorms).

There is no question that you are required to perform additional maneuvers
for the IFR license; there is also no question that those same maneuvers
can and frequently are practised by VFR rated pilots.  Skill is not
something that is aquired only by increasing ratings, skill is aquired
with professionalism and practice; you may apply those skills to a rating
you need if you wish, but you are not required to do so.  

If you want to "play with the big boys," go right ahead, but for Pete's
sake don't refer to the rest of us as lesser pilots than you because you
happen to have spent the money to get an IFR license.  We fly too.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE