HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikes@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Shou-Yung Shum)
Subject: for sale
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:26:29 GMT

numark turntable

manual direct-drive
quartz lock pitch control (on/off quartz switch)

just like the technics sl-1200mkii except its black and the motor isn't as
strong...

includes:  stanton 500 pro dj cartridge and slipmat.

$225... offers in e-mail

yours,m


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: wow (was GEMS)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:11:23 GMT

mention these articles and the reprint requests come rolling in.  In
the name of expediency if not cost-effectiveness, I'm going to repost them.
From: david@roth-music.com (David A. Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 16:00:24 EST
Organization: DAVID A. ROTH MUSIC
Reply-To: david@roth-music.com (David A. Roth)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <9211172056.AA00567@polar.bowdoin.edu> (rec.music.compose), cwilbur@polar.bowdoin.edu (Charlton Wilbur) writes:
> 
> All,
> 
> I realized last week, when it took me longer to copy out parts for an
> orchestration assignment than it did to score the &@%(@ thing, that I should
> see about getting a notation program. I have an IBM clone, 286-16 processor,
> 
...
> 
> Comments? Observations?

WARNING: It will not save you alot of time using a music notation
program, it will generally look better than a handwritten part.  When
you consider the time to learn to use the program, and all the fussing
needed to produce something of standard musician notation so that
the musicians don't ask a lot of annoying questions...better to write
it out by hand. 

If you are more concerned with how it looks than saving time I would suggest looking
into a music notation program.  Just thought I would let you know
what you might be getting into.  Many will not agree with me on this
but I get the feelings from past comments about this that a lot of
them are more concerned with creating pretty printed music than a
good composition.

When I have scores that will be performed by a small ensemble I give
the MIDI file to a copyist in town that uses Finale.  He has been
a copyist long before computers were used for music notation and he
has repeated said it takes longer to do it by computer.  This is coming
from someone who does this stuff full-time and knows the program very
well too.  Of course, his output is professional camera quality music
notation.

David
From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Hearing Mental Music
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:50:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

: my mind, but as soon as I try to pay attention to it, it stops. Do any
: of you have this problem? Do you know of any way to get better access
: to your internal music?
: 
: Nancy Lebovitz
: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu

Occasionally I can hear quite graphically detailed music with my mind's ear.
It almost sounds like I am actually hearing it rather than the more 
internalised sound of something purely in the imagination. It is almost like
an aural hallucination only partially under my control. Since I learnt to
play an instrument it now happens less.

It takes considerable concentration to take music from the mind's ear and
actually exploit it fully but given sufficient concentration I can create
multi-part harmonies, although it is exhausting and not as intense as the
hallucination type above. Unfortunately like Nancy Lebovitz I find it 
difficult to control purely spontaneous music which is a pity as I am sure
it would be fulfilling to get some of it written down (perhaps I should learn
to read music).

		Aaron Turner		aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: wow (was GEMS)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 17:22:42 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Matthew Fields (fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
: mention these articles and the reprint requests come rolling in.  In
: the name of expediency if not cost-effectiveness, I'm going to repost them.
: 

Three cheers for the illustrious Matthew Fields (three blasts on the
shofar?) for his illuminating and entertaining articles.


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: Eric Silver <silver.e@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Hearing Mental Music
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:00:55 GMT
	<721911057.4280@minster.york.ac.uk>


  In article <721911057.4280@minster.york.ac.uk>,
  aaron@minster.york.ac.uk writes:

>: my mind, but as soon as I try to pay attention to it, it stops. Do any
>: of you have this problem? Do you know of any way to get better access
>: to your internal music?
>: 
>: Nancy Lebovitz
>: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu

This is interesting, I've always thought it was just a personal 
thing I did. I'm glad many others experience this as well.
I sometimes hear music in my 'minds ear'. When I do, it is usually in
some detail. I only wish I could reproduce the tenor sax parts as well
as I imagine them. One of the ways I've found helps me become more aware
of the 'imaguned music' is first to relax and try not too much to control
the different parts. Then I very quietly whistle the melody part. After I
am comfortable with the melody part I increase the volume of my whistling
VERY GRADUALLY until I become fully cognisant of the music. I regret is that 
I'm not clever enough to be able to 'write down' what I imagine, although 
a little pocket tape recorder helps.


Eric Silver - York, Upper Canada.
"Legitimize dissent in Canada!"
From: shotokan@diku.dk (Kim H|glund)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: About the GEMS series
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:24:04 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>Just a short reminder: If you didn't see GEMS 0-3, you can get them
>from me for the time being via e-mail.  They're also being stockpiled
>by Nathan Torkington at an anonymous FTP site in New Zealand.

They are also available from
  wuarchive.wustl.edu	(directory /doc/publications/music-gems)
  ftp.diku.dk		(directory /pub/music/music-gems)

Matthew, thanks for taking the time to write these gems.

Cheers,
  Kim

_____
Kim H|glund,  shotokan@diku.dk,    CS Dept. at U of Copenhagen,  Denmark
"I've got plenty of common sense. I just choose to ignore it." -- Calvin
From: cwilbur@pooh.bowdoin.edu (Charlton Wilbur)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Music notation programs
Date: 23 Nov 1992 23:00:38 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

All,

While doing things by hand is certainly the simplest way of accomplishing
things, well, there are advantages to doing things via computer. It's like
word processing: once you have a method that works, like the keyboard, it's
just as efficient to type as to write. The computer really shines, however,
despite all of its flaws, when you realize that your piece would be so much
easier to play if it were a whole step up. With a computer, you can
theoretically issue the command "transpose the whole thing up a whole step and
extract the parts all over again." Without the computer, well, you've got a
good bit of copying ahead of you. 

Thanks to all who replied to my question about Score, either by email or in
public. I may still be getting in touch with some of you.

Charlton

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: kuehn@sound.esm.rochester.edu (Mikel Kuehn)
Subject: Re: Score and notation programs.
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 17:22:16 GMT

In article <0105009A.j83cok@david.roth-music.com> david@roth-music.com (David A. Roth) writes:
>
>WARNING: It will not save you alot of time using a music notation
>program, it will generally look better than a handwritten part.  When
>you consider the time to learn to use the program, and all the fussing
>needed to produce something of standard musician notation so that
>the musicians don't ask a lot of annoying questions...better to write
>it out by hand. 

Gee, hmm.  I guess you probably never thought about... part extraction?
That has always saved me a lot of time.  And, what about macros or the
advantages of editing?  Kind'a difficlut to do that with ink on an
orchestral score, huh?

--------------
Mikel Kuehn
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: hakari@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (The Conformist Contrabass Clarinetist)
Subject: LOOKING FOR SOME MUSIC
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:46:09 GMT



I play bass clarinet in the St. Olaf Band.  There are 5 of us in the section,
and I was wondering if anyone knows of any bass clarinet quintets?  I also
play Bb contrabass, so if there are any arrangements of pieces with an
instrumentation for 5 bass clarinets or 4 bass/1 contrabass, please let me
know.  Thanks much-

--Andrea
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: manual crosspost
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:35:40 GMT

From umeecs!umn.edu!csus.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cfi.org!dogface!joe Fri Nov 20 11:25:27 EST 1992
Article: 97 of alt.music.jewish
Newsgroups: austin.general,austin.music,rec.arts.dance,rec.arts.theatre,soc.culture.jewish,alt.artcom,alt.emusic,alt.music.jewish
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 18:14:01 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Lamont Downs (downs@helios.nevada.edu) wrote:
: Have you looked at MusicPrinter Plus or Theme? Both are DOS based programs 
: with a lot of notational power (though not quite as much heavy-duty 
: artillery as Finale). MusicPrinter Plus supposedly gives very good 
: quality from LaserJets. You can get working demos from the vendors.

I use and love using music printer plus (despite the assuredly
well-founded misgivings of the benevolent Dr Fields). I would heartily
recommend it to anyone. (Except the aforementioned).
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score? (part extraction)
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:00:37 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov22.154338.26577@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>                                           [...]  But I'm still
>waiting hopefully for an environment which will actually speed up the
>overall process, especially speeding up part-extraction, which is pure
>informational redundancy.                                         ^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

Not quite; additional decisions must sometimes be made on things like
page layout (where to put the page turns?) and including cues.  But
yes, the tyepestting programs take much too long to extract parts
even without addressing these concerns.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
From: as976@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Park)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:08:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: as976@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Park)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cwilbur@polar.bowdoin.edu (Charlton Wilbur) says:

>All,
>
>I realized last week, when it took me longer to copy out parts for an
>orchestration assignment than it did to score the &@%(@ thing, that I should
>see about getting a notation program. I have an IBM clone, 286-16 processor,
>with a 40 Meg hard drive and 1 Meg memory. I don't have Windows and would like
>to avoid it if at all possible; I don't have the hard drive space available to
>squander 6-8 MB solely on Windows, and I'd just as soon not go out and get any
>more memory.
>
>The only notation program I've heard of that will work on a PC without Windows
>is Score. Has anybody used this? Has anybody used any other non-Windows based
>notation programs? 
>
Charlton,

In the current issue of Keyboard Magazine is an ad by
PG Music for their new IBM sequencer called PowerTracks.
It includes both Windows and DOS versions in the same
package. It's described as a "fully featured" sequencer 
for the fabulous sum of $29.  There is a 30 day money 
back guarantee.

This is the same company that produced Band-in-a-Box.

Don't know anything about PowerTracks but it might be
worth looking into.

Hope this helps,


Bill








-- 

<<< < < < < Bill Park  as976@cleveland.freenet.edu > > > > >>>
                    <<< < <====> > >>>
"When in Cleveland, never drive behind someone who wears a hat."
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Score?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:04:15 GMT

In article <downs.28.722059363@helios.nevada.edu> downs@helios.nevada.edu (Lamont Downs) writes:
>Speaking purely from hearsay, my understanding about Score is that you type 
>in an ASCII file and the program translates it into musical notation. 
>Supposedly puts out as good output as any other program, but sounds like a 
>bear to use.

I used it for 2 years.  This is a pretty good description of Score.  Score
is unique and idiomatic, and often requires the user to be concerned about
how objects are stored internally in the program (as sequences of code
numbers in FORTRAN arrays).  It has its own way of doing page justification
that is not based on having a scrolling view of a whole score but rather
a bunch of separate files representing your first guess at breaking the
score into separate systems...Its postscript output is beautiful, but in
all the years that I've been around computers, the only person I've ever
seen get anywhere near fluent in Score was the author of the program, who
was quite a whiz at it.

I continue my hypocrisy by using Finale for some small projects while publicly
advocating pens and vellum (which I use for larger projects).

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: rosensta@spade.rutgers.edu (Michael "Trott" Rosenstark)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score?
Date: 22 Nov 92 06:44:01 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Consider also that once one becomes fluent in, for example, Score, it
takes much less time to enter the thing; when you couple that with the
tremendous decrease in time extracting parts, the notation programs
are faster.  Also, much more revisable.

cheers,

mike
-- 
rosensta@ace.rutgers.edu
rosensta@silvertone.princeton.edu


      "Domini caveat e smilium, diem e smilium, Corpus Christi e smilium."

--Caesar, proposing a ban on the use of smileys on Rome's "usenet", ca. 40 A.D.
From: tfullert@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Timothy D Fullerton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Score?
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:31:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Nov22.173119.28456
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Nov22.154338.26577@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:

>
>As a Finale expert and a past Score expert, I once again beg to
>differ.  Part extraction is the pot of gold at the end of the
>computerized notation rainbow, for most of us (other enticements
>include notation options for e.g. paralyzed individuals, camera-ready
>artwork for publishing, and "better" notation for those who just can't
>or won't bring themselves to master clean manuscript).  But experience
>shows that on the average it takes ten times as long to enter a
>typical orchestral score into a computer as it takes to draw it on
>vellum, and at least 10% longer to extract parts.  But I'm still
>waiting hopefully for an environment which will actually speed up the
>overall process, especially speeding up part-extraction, which is pure
>informational redundancy...



	Well, not at all to slight anyone else's experience, I have some 
alternative experience to report. I, too, am a proficient professional 
copyist whose handwritten work is as elegant as or superior to that of 
Finale. Unfortunately, my speed suffers for that elegance. Therefore, in 
the creation of a pen and ink score when coming from a preexisting 
draft, it seems to me that both come out in about the same amount of 
time. Part extraction is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but 
for me it is a damn good one. The most time comes from laying out the 
first, most elaborate part; but thereafter that can be used as a 
template for the layout of most of the remaining parts.

	Also, when the score is to be varied or the arrangement and/or 
instrumentation is to be changed, having it on disk makes it a lot more 
convenient. I do virtually all of my arranging and composition from 
Finale now

	Another plus for me is that working on the computer is much less 
monotonous, and discovering that I got a measure off fifty measures back 
is much less emotionally devastating. :-) BTW, my rate of acceleration 
with Finale is much more than that of my hand copywork. If I can do a 
score in the same amount of time either way now, only owning Finale for 
six months, I imagine that a year from now I could be lightning fast 
with it. 

	On the whole though, if you want your work to have the potential 
to look its best and want to be able to adhere to all notation 
conventions, learn how to do it by hand.

	Tim
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: About the GEMS series
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:08:46 GMT

In just a few minutes, I'll post GEMS 4.

Just a short reminder: If you didn't see GEMS 0-3, you can get them
from me for the time being via e-mail.  They're also being stockpiled
by Nathan Torkington at an anonymous FTP site in New Zealand.
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Hearing Mental Music
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:14:30 GMT

In article <KPG=M7_@engin.umich.edu> darrin@arrakis.engin.umich.edu (Darrin P Cardani) writes:
>
>In article <83908@ut-emx.uucp>, james@astro.as.utexas.edu (James McCartney) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov13.143857.29453@leland.Stanford.EDU> bil@cmn14.Stanford.EDU (Bill Schottstaedt) writes:
>> >This has happened to me, also, and with all the attributes of
>> >reality (that is, I at first am not sure I'm not actually
>> >hearing a clarinet, or whatever, playing in the next room). I can
>> 
>>   I have also had auditory hallucinations of melodies that weren't there,
>> but this only occurs while I am actually playing and only very rarely and
>> for a few seconds at most. I am always quite startled by it. It is quite
>> different from hearing it in your head, I could swear I actually heard the
>> melody.
>>    --- james mccartney
>> 
>> 
>
>I've had this happen, too, but only at night when I'm lying (sp?) in
>bed. Maybe it's because it's quiet. It's not like a dream, it's just 
>like hearing something that isn't there. It's not always music, though.
>Sometimes it's people talking and I can make out bits and pieces, but
>never the whole thing. Kinda weird.
>						Darrin

When I'm in a darkroom (rarely) or out in the country at night, and it's
REALLY dark, I have the constant phantom sensation of there being light
in my peripheral vision, and if only I turn my head fast enough, I'll
see it.  But I suspect this is a consequence of too much city living.
And I suspect that I would hear phantom sounds in an anechoic chamber,
if the sounds of my own pulse, digestion, and arthritis didn't overwhelm
the effect.

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: darrin@arrakis.engin.umich.edu (Darrin P Cardani)
Subject: Re: Hearing Mental Music
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 12:02:50 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan AI and VR Laboratory
Originator: darrin@arrakis.engin.umich.edu


In article <83908@ut-emx.uucp>, james@astro.as.utexas.edu (James McCartney) writes:
> In article <1992Nov13.143857.29453@leland.Stanford.EDU> bil@cmn14.Stanford.EDU (Bill Schottstaedt) writes:
> >This has happened to me, also, and with all the attributes of
> >reality (that is, I at first am not sure I'm not actually
> >hearing a clarinet, or whatever, playing in the next room). I can
> 
>   I have also had auditory hallucinations of melodies that weren't there,
> but this only occurs while I am actually playing and only very rarely and
> for a few seconds at most. I am always quite startled by it. It is quite
> different from hearing it in your head, I could swear I actually heard the
> melody.
>    --- james mccartney
> 
> 

I've had this happen, too, but only at night when I'm lying (sp?) in
bed. Maybe it's because it's quiet. It's not like a dream, it's just 
like hearing something that isn't there. It's not always music, though.
Sometimes it's people talking and I can make out bits and pieces, but
never the whole thing. Kinda weird.
						Darrin
From: cwilbur@polar.bowdoin.edu (Charlton Wilbur)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Score?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:56:34 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

All,

I realized last week, when it took me longer to copy out parts for an
orchestration assignment than it did to score the &@%(@ thing, that I should
see about getting a notation program. I have an IBM clone, 286-16 processor,
with a 40 Meg hard drive and 1 Meg memory. I don't have Windows and would like
to avoid it if at all possible; I don't have the hard drive space available to
squander 6-8 MB solely on Windows, and I'd just as soon not go out and get any
more memory.

The only notation program I've heard of that will work on a PC without Windows
is Score. Has anybody used this? Has anybody used any other non-Windows based
notation programs? 

I should add that I've used Finale (our music department's notation program)
but that it was definitely not the optimal program for me. I don't need MIDI
at all, and it seems to me that a large part of Finale was MIDI.

Comments? Observations?

Charlton Wilbur
cwilbur@polar.bowdoin.edu



Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: georg@sgl.ists.ca (Georg Feil)
Subject: Re: Hearing Mental Music
Organization: Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:33:01 GMT

nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>This may sound odd, but sometimes I can sort of hear music running in
>my mind, but as soon as I try to pay attention to it, it stops. Do any
>of you have this problem? Do you know of any way to get better access
>to your internal music?

Doesn't sound so odd to me. I find it's promoted by fairly loud white noise
such as from a fan or (as someone else already said) a subway. The bass player
in my band says he often comes up with musical ideas on the bus or subway.
It's probably a sensory recall thing not directly related to musical training,
because it used to happen to me as a kid way before I started to learn about
music and tried my hand at composing. It was somewhat voluntary -- I could
concentrate on a particular song and soon it would be playing "on its own".

Georg.

P.S. Ignore any stock-market advice you receive in a similar manner. 
     It's always wrong.
-- 
Georg Feil                                 Internet: georg@sgl.ists.ca
Space Geodynamics Laboratory
ISTS, 2700 Steeles Ave West                   Phone: (416) 665-5458
Toronto, Ontario  CANADA                        Fax: (416) 660-1422
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: phranx@imr.no (Phranx)
Subject: P.D.Q Bach / P. Schickele
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:58:14 GMT

Is there any fans of the music of "P.D.Q. Bach" out there?
If you don't know of it, try to get the "1712 ouverture.."
WARNING: Can make you burst out in uncontrollable laughter
     when you hear the original....

I've got a few of his recordings, but wonder if any of you
have any information on his Opera "The abduction of Figaro".
ALso, I have difficulties in getting hold of his older works.

Please Email to: phranx@imr.no

Phranx