HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: DSM for Ontario Hydro (was Re: Radioactivity and Superstition...)
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.143810.864@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> whitlock@dcss.mcmaster.ca (Jeremy Whitlock) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.172753.9007@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>
>>The EPRI report provides figures in supplied energy ($/KWh), not capacity.
>>For example, they say that efficiency retrofits in industrial motor
>>drives (the category with the largest potential savings) could reclaim
>>capacity at $.025/kwh.
>
>Ontario Hydro's planned case was looking at CDN$.037/kWh for efficiency 
>improvements.  I like to compare installed (and avoided) capacity, since this
>directly measures the cost of responding to demand.  Also, options like like
>load shifting will tend to save megawatts (peak), but save nothing in energy.
>When one quotes a figure that characterizes an entire demand strategy,   
>therefore, it is best to talk about capacity.

The EPRI report dealt with efficiency retrofitting only, not load-shifting,
although it would be a part of DSM.  Since I don't know the conversion between
Canadian and US $$, I can't compare the figures you present with those that
I am familiar with.  Is it possible that new capacity could be cheaper per GW
while efficiency would be cheaper per kwh?  If so, which is more representative?
I have not seen rebuttals to the EPRI figures from any source.  I _have_
seen rebuttals to the idea that efficiency saves energy based on the
concept that cheaper energy encourages more consupmtion of it, which doesn't
address the issue of whether energy use is limited by its cost. [This is another
subject and has been debated back and forth in many issues of _Energy Policy_
for those that are interested.]
>
>>Can Ontario Hydro supply nuclear or fossil
>-- 
>Jeremy Whitlock                 "My thoughts are mine, not Mac's"
>Dept. Engineering Physics
>McMaster University
>Hamilton, Ontario, Canada  


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: Tom Gray <tgray@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Date: 12 Oct 92 08:22 PDT
Subject: Re: FAQ available on Solar/Wind Home Po
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct7.152920.20389@merlin.hgc:-844829162:cdp:1466300088:000:2044
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tgray    Oct 12 08:22:00 1992


jens4813@hgc.edu writes:

>Does anyone know of information about the latest technology on Home
>Power generation. Is there a FAQ available? I am looking for ways
>to generate electric power, heat, or cooking without useing conventional
>power from electric lines. A cost analysis of alternatives would be greatly
>appreciated also. Cost of purchase and approximate break even investment
>time would be great also. If anyone has the useful life of the
>equipment that would help in the cost analysis.

No, there is no FAQ, but I encourage you to write one up once you have
consulted the following resources.


/* Written  7:24 pm  Aug 26, 1991 by tgray in igc:en.energy */
Three topflight and recommended private-sector sources of information
on renewable energy and energy efficiency equipment for the household
are:

Real Goods Trading Corp.
966 Mazzoni Street
Ukiah, CA 95482
Phone:  (707) 468-9292
Fax:    (707) 468-0301

Real Goods offers a complete stock of equipment from energy-efficient
refrigerators to PV panels to compact fluorescent lightbulbs, and
publishes an annual _Alternative Energy Sourcebook_ which discusses
energy issues and products in detail.

Jade Mountain
PO Box 4616
Boulder, CO 80306-4616
Phone:  (800) 442-1972
Fax:    (303) 449-8266

Jade Mountain offers "appropriate technology" equipment:  can crushers,
compost bins, compact fluorescents, RV solar panel systems, DC
appliances, etc.  You can subscribe to Jade Mountain's "Appropriate
Technology News" for $2.

Rising Sun Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 1728
158 1/2 Midland Avenue
Basalt, CO 81621
Phone:  (303) 927-8051
Fax:    (303) 927-3635

Rising Sun publishes the "Watt Buster", a catalog of energy-efficient
lighting products.  Highly educational and informative.  Includes a
fill-in-the-blanks form for calculating your $ savings from a
fluorescent bulb.

*******************************************************************
Tom Gray                                 EcoNet/PeaceNet: tgray@igc
Internet/Bitnet: tgray@igc.apc.org    UUCP: uunet!pyramid!cdp!tgray

Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: aschoorl@engr.UVic.CA (Andre  Schoorl)
Subject: DC->AC
Reply-To: aschoorl@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:01:21 GMT


I live on Vancouver Island, and my neighbour states that the power coming to the 
island is DC.  Somehow they convert it back to AC, but no-one I know knows how.
Could I get some help on this?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre Schoorl                                    aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca
Department of Computer Engineering               e-mail preferred.
University of Victoria, Canada
From: borowski@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Don T. Borowski)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Economist article on car battery and flywheel technology.
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:07:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpspkla.1910030
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.

In sci.energy, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

In article <ETHANB.92Oct13110800@ptolemy.astro.washington.edu> ethanb@ptolemy.astro.washington.edu (Ethan Bradford) writes:

>>And accidents are not too terrible; though the rim is
>>moving at 8,650kph, if it fails it merely produces hot fluff, which the
>>housing can contain.
>
>And a nuclear bomb is merely 50 pounds of very hot metal.
>
>Why do I get the feeling I am being mislead by the author of this
>article?

Just think about this "hot fluff" in terms of the amount of energy it had
been storing before disintegration.  Presumably, we are talking about the
amount of energy stored in about a gallon of gasoline when the flywheel is
spun up.  This energy has to go somewhere.  If it goes into heat, it will
be quite a bit of heat indeed, released all at once, also known as an
explosion.


Donald Borowski    WA6OMI    Hewlett-Packard, Spokane Division
"Angels are able to fly because they take themselves so lightly."
                                       -G.K. Chesterton
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: DC->AC
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:01:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.150121.24115@sol.UVic.CA>, aschoorl@engr.UVic.CA (Andre  Schoorl) writes:
> 
> 
> I live on Vancouver Island, and my neighbour states that the power coming to the 
> island is DC.  Somehow they convert it back to AC, but no-one I know knows how.
> Could I get some help on this?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andre Schoorl                                    aschoorl@engr.uvic.ca
> Department of Computer Engineering               e-mail preferred.
> University of Victoria, Canada
> 
> 

There are two ways I know of:

1.  For small currents, use a solid state rectifier.  I am not sure how they
change DC to AC but I feel certain that there are such devices.  

2.  For large currents, use a motor-generator set.  These are common on 
diesel/electric submarines.  You have a DC motor that turns the shaft for an
AC generator.  You do loose some energy due to the motor/generator but clearly
this system would be used when needed and the loss could be less than the
normal loss from an AC transmition line.  Any electrical engineers wish to
comment on that last?

Don Palmrose
dpe@inel.gov




========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

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Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
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opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Electric Car summary
Keywords: forget it
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:04:50 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Oct14.154836.2290@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>
>It seems that in the near future electric cars (ZEVs) will fit into
>niche markets.  The two car family could have 1 ic car and
>1 ZEV for taking the kids to school and going to the market.  I
>don't think their proponents see them replacing ic cars in the
>short-term.  The ZEV law in California gives a boost to research
>and helps to define the niche.

Of course it pretty much says "screw you" to the *1* car family.
Buying a second car for a niche use is an economic hardship for
many, and a waste of resources for all.

Gary
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: 1992 Nobel Prizes: a prediction
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:15:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
: In article <8OCT199210452292@csa2.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa2 (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
: >but not complete yet.  They do, however, confirm the original work of 
: >Ray Davis.  It's possible that he gets the prize for discovering the
: >solar neutrino deficit.
: 
: I think Davis and Bahcall are long overdue for a joint prize.  Not to
: be shared with GALLEX or any other newcomers.

Well, I'll put in a plug for my field's compatriots, but none is
a physicist: Ed Lorenz & David Ruelle.


: -- 
: -Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Newsgroups: sci.physics
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Value Rule is sometimes false
Keywords: Calm down Benjamin
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:29:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Oct12.162902.16713
Organization: Software Engineering Institute

In article <mcirvin.718902000@husc8> mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin) writes:

>It seems to me that the central topic of this discussion is the relevance
>of sets of measure zero in quantum mechanics.  It's quite true that
>physicists usually tend to remove such things from consideration or treat
>them in a very cavalier manner.

This may well be true, but I guess I got lucky.  Dirac took a lot of
trouble to explain this stuff in Lecture 1 of his course, and I think
it helped immunise us against confusion.

I think most of the misunderstanding stems from sloppy terminology -
which might, as you say, be a result of sloppy thinking.  Take the
term "probability", for instance.  This is OK when the set of values
is discrete, but on the continuum you shouldn't speak of probability,
but rather of "probability density".  So, given a probability density
function P(x), the expectation value on any interval [a,b] is just
Integral[a,b] ( P(x)dx ).  That's well defined.

In addition, there are (many!) functions P for which the set of
non-zero values of P(x) is a set of measure zero; this implies
infinite peaks in the function, but that also can be made rigorous.
The simplest example, of course, is the continuous delta function
delta(x-x0), which vanishes everywhere except x=x0 and has an
integral of unity.

But to say that P(x0), for instance, is the "probability of observing
the value x0", is simply wrong; it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding
of the formal definition of probability on the continuum.  The better,
and incidentally operational, view is that if P(x) is the delta function,
then the bounding interval may be made as small as we please, provided it
contains x0.  That's the practical meaning of a "sharp" value; for the
theory I refer you again to Lighthill's "Fourier Analysis and Generalised
Functions", and to any textbook that provides a rigorous treatment of
probability in the Kolmogorov sense.
Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.math,sci.philosophy.tech
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Mattel protest
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:04:49 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Oct6.004749.24870@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass) writes:
>     And why exactly do you feel that the lower proportion of
>     women compared to the total population is a 'problem'?

The problem is that women are being systematically told by society
that they can't do math.  Forget about the gender ratio in the "hard
sciences."  I teach an introductory astronomy class for non-majors,
and there are many people in there, whom when faced with any math
(even simple arithmetic and algebra), adopted an attitude that they
can't ever learn to do it, and hence don't even try.  This sort of
attitude is particularly common among women, and it comes about after
years of societal brainwashing that "women can't do math," and it
takes quite a bit of effort on my part to undo the damage.

>     Which skilled worker do you wish to force out of these
>     non-booming professions to accommodate a higher percentage
>     of women to satisfy our social engineering quotas?

When one-half of society is taught from an early age that they can't
do a certain skill which is useful in a technological society, we have
a BIG problem.  We're not talking about quotas here.  By the time it
reaches science and engineering hiring, it's far too late to do
anything about it.

>     It seems to me that this 'problem' is the same as the 'problem'
>     that we've had for the last 20 years in that there 'aren't enough'
>     engineers and scientists.   It is only a problem, if women are
>     being forced out because they are women.  

And my opinion, after teaching an introductory class for astronomy
non-majors, is that they are.  Women are being taught from a young age
that they can't do math and shouldn't try.  The trouble with what Barbie
is saying is that it translates into "math class is impossible."

>     If the assertion is that 'we stinking men' (TM) or 'society' (TM)
>     are keeping women from the physical sciences and mathematics, then
>     the existence of large numbers of women in the medical profession 
>     seems to invalidate the assertion.  

Medicine is not heavily mathematical.  I know of a number of women who
chose medicine over physics or engineering, PRECISELY because its less
mathematical than physics or engineering.

Newsgroups: sci.physics
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Subject: Re: Questions of transparency
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:10:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.234101.9875@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave Griffiths) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.044856.28568@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass) writes:
>>
>>    I always found it interesting that "The incident wave may therefore 
>>    be regarded as extinguished at any point within the medium by 
>>    interference with the dipole field and replaced by another wave with 
>>    a different velocity (and generally also with a different
>>    direction) of propagation (Born and Wolf, p. 100)."  So actually, 
>>    there 'aint' no incident wave inside the medium since the medium
>>    conspires to identically cancel the incident wave.
>>
>
>If a beam of light passes through a glass block, are the majority of the
>photons which emerge on the other side the very same ones that entered? Or
>are the photons absorbed and retransmitted?

     I don't know how one would determine this, so I don't have
     an answer.  I do not know how to a) distinctly identify photons or b)
     measure them without interaction.  For the field, extinction
     considerations mentioned above would seem to indicate that
     the field in the medium is solely the result of the interactions in
     the medium, and that the incident field is basically gone
     at some point in the medium (at what point can be a subject of 
     controversy, but I think most would agree that the position is
     less than or equal to a wavelength.)

>If the light is considered to be transmitted by excitation of free charges
>then one would expect that if two light beams at different angles interesected
>half way through the glass block they would intefere with each other. Yet if
>I look out through the window, despite the fact there are billions of
>different light paths all pulling these charges in different directions, no
>distortion is observed.

     They do interfere.  Why do you expect distortion?

                            dale bass


-- 
C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926
From: barry@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Barry G. Adams)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: How do you draw a straight line?
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:02:59 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON


  I JUST COULDN'T RESIST:


/* Bresenham algorithm for drawing a line using Turbo C */
#include <stdio.h>
#include <graphics.h>

void OpenGraphics()
  { int grd, grm; grd=DETECT; initgraph(&grd, &grm, "\\tc2"); }
void CloseGraphics()
  { closegraph(); }

/* Bresenham's incremental line drawing routine */

void DrawLine(x1, y1, x2, y2, color)
int x1, y1, x2, y2, color;
{
   int x = x1, y = y1;
   int dx = x2 - x1, dy = y2 - y1;
   int xinc = 1, yinc = 1, p;
   if (dx < 0) { dx = -dx; xinc = -1; }
   if (dy < 0) { dy = -dy; yinc = -1; }

   if (dx > dy) {
      dy <<= 1;
      p = dy - dx;
      dx = dy - (dx << 1);
      while (x != x2) {
         putpixel(x, y, color);
         if (p > 0) {
            y += yinc;
            p += dx;
         } else {
            p += dy;
         }
         x += xinc;
      } /* while */
   } else {
      dx <<= 1;
      p = dx - dy;
      dy = dx - (dy << 1);
      while (y != y2) {
         putpixel(x, y, color);
         if (p > 0) {
            x += xinc;
            p += dy;
         } else {
            p += dx;
         }
         y += yinc;
      } /* while */
   }
   putpixel(x, y, color);
}

/* Turbo C's built-in line drawing routine */

void DrawLine_2(x1, y1, x2, y2, color)
int x1, y1, x2, y2, color;
{ setcolor(color); line(x1, y1, x2, y2); }

main()
{
   int i;
   OpenGraphics();
   setbkcolor(14);

   /* Draw lines using Bresenham's line drawing algorithm */

   for (i=1; i <= 20; i++) DrawLine(0, 0,  639 - 30*i, 479, 8);
   for (i=1; i <= 20; i++) DrawLine(0, 479, 639 - 30*i, 0, 8);
   getchar();
   cleardevice();

   /* Draw lines using Turbo C's built-in routines */

   for (i=1; i <= 20; i++) DrawLine_2(0, 0,  639 - 30*i, 479, 8);
   for (i=1; i <= 20; i++) DrawLine_2(0, 479, 639 - 30*i, 0, 8);
   getchar();
   CloseGraphics();
}
Newsgroups: sci.physics
From: kim@Lise.Unit.NO (Kim Gunnar St|vring yhus)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: TIME HAS INERTIA AND THE PRINCIPLE OF TENDENCY OF MAINTAINING THE
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:53:41 GMT
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology

In article <abian.718746124@pv343f.vincent.iastate.edu>, abian@iastate.edu (Alexander Abian) writes:

 >     In no Physics book there is a convincing explanation  of why heat is
 > produced when a pair of fingers rub a piece of fur.  I know all the
 > nonconvincing thermodynamical explanations - changing the levels of 
 > energy,etc, etc.  I say that the fur produces heat in order to burn the
 > fingers so that they stop bugging and rubbing it.  Of course  this is
 > the  major way of producing heat from time immemorial  when one piece of 
 > wood rubs and bugs the other and heat and flame are produced to burn 
 > the bugger and a new status quo is produced.
 >                                               Alexander ABIAN

You obviously mean something different by the word 'convincing', than other
people do. By using the model/explanation of thermodynamics, one can calculate
how much fat is burned by the body to get some heat, and the result is right.
One can also calculate the pressure of air as the rubbing heats it up, and
one get the same result as if one used a barometer to measure the pressure.
Your explanation can't do this, and is therefore useless, unfalsifiable.

Where I live, in Norway, I rub fur to get warm in the cold weather. If you were
right, the fur should get colder, to make me stop rubbing it. So you are wrong.

 >>     Yours do not appear to be falsifiable, and are thus not science.
 >>                                    dale bass
 >  
 >  Your above two line statement is itself a belief.  Is it a scientific
 >or a nonscientific belief ?  It does not matter - it is a belief.

It's not a belief. It's a statement about the meaning/definition of the word 
'science'.

 >>  I think that any statement conveys a "belief".  It is almost futile to
 >>define what is  "scientific "  or  "non-scientific".  I have already
 >>mentioned that it is futile to give "definitions of absolutes" since
 >>the first question would then be  what is the definition of "definition"?
 >>I don't want to go further than this concerning "definitions".
 >
 >     It is not futile at all.  A scientific statement is one that 
 >     is potentially falsifiable.  Science does not deal with 'Truth'.
 >     Science does not deal with 'absolutes'.  The rules of science
 >     are very very clear.

The problem of 'first question' applies to all words, not only 'science'.
Thats why children have to learn by example, computers by input,
and science by experimenting.
But A.Abian should have learned enough as a child to understand Dale Bass.


Abian, learn the meaning of the word 'science', as in 'sci.physics',
and you will understand why your posting has NOTHING to do on this newsgroup.

Kim0
                    [You may continue personal discussion via mail]
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: TIME HAS INERTIA     Reply to: Steven Groom
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:07:28 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

Alexander Abian writes:
>
>  Since I maintain that some Energy is spent for moving Time forward, I thus
>mean that  Time has inertia. 

Actually, I'd say that that energy is expended in moving <blank> means
that <blank> experiences friction.  Once <blank> was in motion, that
<blank> has inertia means that it "tends" to stay in motion.

And, actually, while I'm not quite sure what you mean by "uniform
rectilinear motion," I assume you are refering to Newton's first law.
If so, I would point out that your principle of maintaining status quo
implies it -- objects in motion will remain in the same motion until
influenced otherwise.

And you REALLY need to work on your message formatting.  Please insert
<CR>s at the ends of lines, if you want people to read them.

(All: I wonder if the sulphuric acid example should be crossposted to
sci.chem so we can watch that one get punctured?)

	Larry "Heigh ho" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu     \   One like a wombat prowled obtuse
GEnie: L.HAMMER2             \  and furry  -- Christina Rossetti
Newsgroups: sci.physics