HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 04:53:42 GMT

In article <BtCIM9.Cxn@acsu.buffalo.edu> swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann) writes:
|Personally, I would get aggravated with a DM who insisted that we always
|follow HIS cleverly designed little plotlines all the time, instead of
|pursuing our own interests.

	Hardly.  You'll go where I want you to go, because you already want to
go there.

|What do you mean by "meaningful"? 

	One that wasn't made up thirty seconds ago.

|IMAO?  "In Your Arrogant Opinion" I would preume?  I haven't seen you
|offer any other kind yet.  At any rate, you simply refuse to admit
|that the players could do anything that you didn't anticipate, which
|is arrogance of colossal proportions, unless your players happen to be
|clones of yourself.  So your wizards are too high and mighty to be

	Oh, they've done things I haven't anticipated.  They just can't do
anything USEFUL I didn't anticipate.  There are only a finite number of ways
a problem can be attacked, and I'll have covered them.

|hired.  I can understand that.  Now a really determined adventuring

	We're off the topic here, but....

|group might do something like making a bargain with him - you do this
|tunneling for us, we'll give you this wand of lightning we captured
|last adventure, and we'll perform a misson of your choice after we're
|done with this adventure.  If that doesn't sway him, they could bloody

	THEY CAN'T BE HIRED.  That includes payment in services.  And you don't
HAVE a wand of lightning, because I don't use the mass-produced magic items
approach.

|well kidnap his wife and force him to help them - then things would
|get REAL far from your canned scenario.

	Dude, in one of my fantasy campaigns, you couldn't FIND a wizard unless
I wanted you to.  I said, "figure of mystery".  They come and go as they
please, and you DON'T force them to help you.

|But to extend the example, do you know the location of every loose
|paving stone on every road in every part of the adventure, or doesn't
|your world have loose paving stones?  That's one way to make sure the
|players don't do anything unexpected - have every object in your
|campaign be equivalent to its Platonic Ideal form.

	No, I don't know the location of every loose stone, but I DO know the
locations of loose stones that have anything underneath them.  The rest of
them are unimportant.


dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com   ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis     GEnie: D.HEFFERNAN1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of everything...haven't
you learned; if it's not happenning to me it's not important?" -Murphy Brown
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Astral Adepts-
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:36:45 GMT

holmes@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan) writes:

>->>>>>[This here is what -I- would call an "Astral Adept" guys....]<<<<<
>    -Reflex

>Astral Adepts-

>   Priority        : B or 3
>   Abilities       : As Follows-

>   1. Astral Projection and Astral Perception both as per a -normal- magician

>   2. Sorcery and Conjuring Skills in -Astral Only- with the following 
>      restrictions...

>      a. Cannot effect a spell to the Physical in any way, this includes 
>	 Grounding down a link.
>      b. Can only effect spell defense to others in the Astral Plane/Medium.
>      c. Can use Conjuring to -Banish- spirits, as long as they are encountered
>	 in the Astral (aka, they aren't manifesting).  Sort of a "I belong
>	 here, you don't attitude."
>      
>   3. Enchanting is allowable, but only objects that will function once the
>      user is Projecting (a sort of foci limitation, something that works ONLY
>      in the Astral).

>   4. Astral Reaction would be a -total- bonus equal to the magic attribute
>      of the caster, which would include any initiation they might receive.

Your emphasis of "total" confuses me when next to "bonus".  If a mage has
Int 4 and Magic 8 (Grade 2) is his Astral Reaction 4, 8 (total magic) or
12 (Normal reaction + Magic).  You make it sound like it is supposed to be
8.  If true, see me comments below.  If not, this guy is way to tough.

>   5. No bonuses to Assensing.

>->>>>>[But hey, this is where we differ again, so there....  ;-)  ]<<<<<
>    -Reflex

Yeah.  I'd call something like this a Shamanic Adept :).  (They can do most
of that stuff; some differences (mostly in scope)).

Hmm, my banishing is a bit rusty, but you don't have to be able to summon
the type of spirit you're banishing, do you? For example, can a mage banish
a nature spirit, or a shaman banish a toxic spirit?  I think the answer is
yes, in which case, there is almost no difference between your Astral Adept
and a Shamanic Adept (save spell choice).

This, BTW, was my main reason for making my AA a bit off the SR path; if I
wanted what your list, I'd make a Shamanic Adept with a Totem suited her
character concept.  My AA I made because I wanted something wicked fast
in Astral.
From: porterg@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: SKIP/NEWSGROUP
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:43:48 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia


Well, for *interesting new stuff* at GenCon, you never know.  All the big
companies will have advertised their plans well ahead of time, so we know
that GDW will be hyping Dyslexic Journeys, FASA will be hyping nth edition
Shadowrun, etc.

However, there are going to be lots of small companies there, and maybe some
new companies, who will be unveiling new products with little or no fanfare.

And even little companies can produce really good games.

Greg Porter
BTRC
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:43:28 GMT

>In article <BsusBD.Eys@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:

[stuff snipped]

>>This neat trick isn't going to cut it if you are trying to be fair to 
>>both players. You have to take Benedict's skill at warfare into account
>>and tell him "Hmm. Corwin's behavior isn't what you would normally expect
>>from an opponent in his situation." The character would notice that even
>>if the player didn't.

Not if the character was in a full-blown rage.....which, in the novel,
Benedict was.

Even master strategists have feelings, y'know.  :)


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Astral Adepts
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:19:55 GMT
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu's message of 18 Aug 92 20:45:51 GMT
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>>>>> "LW" == Lester Ward <ward1@husc8.harvard.edu> writes:

LW> PRIORITY: B (3 in SR I)
LW> SORCERY: No. (Not even for astral combat.)
LW> CONJURING: No.
LW> ENCHANTING: No.
LW> ASTRAL PERCEPTION: Yes.
LW> ASTRAL PROJECTION: Yes.

Yeah, he's a specialist, all right. A specialist in being a dead target.
Let's face it; unless this guy's hell on wheels in a real-world melee, he's
toast in any kind of Astral fight. And without Sorcery and Conjuring, there
goes any chance of surviving attacks by spells and spirits (no Sorcery or
Conjuring means no Astral Defense Pool against spells or spirits).

At least he still gets his Intelligence as his Astral Dodge Pool.

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 12:58:41 GMT

In article <4817@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
|A game is a system.  The purpose of that system is to let people have fun.
|If you put in a single part whose failure ends the game or renders the
|remainder pointless then you have designed a bad system for fun.  A bad

	First off, it's a cheap shot to harp on this when in the very next
paragraph I say that I don't DO that.

	Second, so what if I do?  Most scenarios have critical points in them
where the whole thing can go one way or another.  Having a clue that must be
found is no worse than having a bomb that has to be disarmed before it
destroys the building the PC's are standing in.  Yes, it makes life
dangerous.  So what?

|Classic error.  The _players_ cannot tell the storyline from the environment
|in a well-designed and well-played scenario, it should be a seamless present-

	Say WHAT?  The storyline is where you go and what you did.  The
environment is what you saw and who/what you did it to.

|ation.  It does not matter if the "mystery" was decided or not when you start
|out if the final result, which is fixed in the memory of all the players,
|including the GM, leaves behind the appropriate feeling of a mystery solved.

	Your "appropriate feeling" is an illusion.  I suppose that will draw
some brain-dead commentary about how "RPG's aren't real anyway", and that's
true, but that doesn't mean that overcoming a legitimate challenge in one
isn't satisfying in its own way.  It certainly means a lot more to me to
know that I solved a puzzle that someone spent some time working out in
advance, than to know that all I did was co-write the adventure.



dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com   ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis     GEnie: D.HEFFERNAN1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That's what the short ones are FOR." --Murphy Brown
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: HERO's cheesy $ flow cost...
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:34:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Aug20123429
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu's message of 19 Aug 92 20:55:35 GMT
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>>>>> "js" == joshua salter <jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

js> 	Why does HERO allow someone to be fabulously wealthy for 20 cp, yet
js> make an AK-47 cost 5 points as a power? If you were fabulously wealthy,
js> you cou could just buy an AK-47, hell, buy ten. I think that the cp for
js> being rich are incongrous with the aforemntioned AK-47 price. Or vice
js> versa. Can someone put forth a clear answer on which price to use and
js> how to adapt the other one?

Because money has no real correlation to Character Points. Any attempt to
make such a correlation won't work (I know, I've tried).

If you are playing an heroic-level game (a la Fantasy Hero, etc) the GM
will provide monetary costs for things. You don't pay Character Points for
standard items, though you may have to pay CPs for custom items. If you are
playing a superheroic-level game, where you pay Character Points for
everything, you must buy the AK-47 as a Power, with Character Points. Note:
paying CPs for things only applies to stuff you regularly use, like radios,
weapons, etc. If you go out and as a one-shot need an assault rifle, it
won't cost you anything.

Paying the 20 points to be fabulously wealthy won't give you any additional
Character Points to buy an AK-47, but it does give you a valid reason for
being able to purchase one.

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:57:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.000659.58283@cc.usu.edu> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.174818.20479@samba.oit.unc.edu>, 
> Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug18.023221.58228@cc.usu.edu> 
> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>
>>>How about a definition of ``railroading?''
>> 
>> <grin> How about an example.
>
>[example deleted]
>
[snip]
>> 
>> The trick is doing it within the constraints of reasonable behavior of
>> NPCs and the outside world.
>> I've been in one game (same group, different GM) where it *was* a
>> *total* railroad! But it didn't *feel* like one because everything
>> seemed to fit some version of reality. (It was also an "inside-job" by
>> afore mentioned computer expert...) And there was no-one pressuring us
>> to do [X] or else.  
>
>So you've completed my point. You can ``railroad'' players (if that is
>an accurate word for it) in an interesting, realistic and consistant
>way. In my games, the players usually will ``stay on the map'' because
>that part of the game world is the most interesting part at that 
>moment. It is also very often the part they wanted to explore, but
>they indicated so days or weeks before.

Oh, yeah, it's possible -- it just ain't easy (the GM of that one later
said to me that he didn't like doing it; it was done in an effort to get
rid of some major inconsistancies the mega-railroad GM had. Most of the
time GM B <good GM> does improv. [And I've been in a *total* improv of
his that was also fun!]). 
The difference is that we were out-smarted and out-gadgeteered, not
bullied. We were given interesting things to look at (someone building a
ship almost exactly like ours, coming up with a profitable idea that
we'd had first, several games ago, selling tech and programs that didn't
look above-board -- and then the military hires us to investigate). We
weren't called up for no reason to do something that we're not really
qualified to do. It was less of a railroad because we *wanted* to go
there, instead of being blocked off from the rest of the world.

Mrph. Forgot my point. :-)  I think it's that a *really* good GM can do
both a nearly 100% prepared-for <nothing much written down, though!>
game, and a nearly 100% inprov, and they're both fun. :-)
And that, while improv opens one to being walked over by the players,
prep can be just as appaling if the GM railroads <badly>. And I'm more
leery of railroading than I am of things being just a little too easy. I
can always plan more (I think -- find out in two days...), but I don't
know if I can plan less.

--EM
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: J.P.Brannan <J.P.Brannan@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Nntp-Posting-User: jpb1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
     <SPACE.92Aug7214758@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org> <1155@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:02:32 GMT

In article <4412@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> Sea Wasp,
seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu writes:
From: ydobyns@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (York H. Dobyns)
Subject: Re: Ambushes (was Re: Gurps Supers is still broken)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:10:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.165711.5730@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.061040.5079@news.unomaha.edu> PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) writes:
>|The purpose of the system is to support the genre.  If you have to constantly
>
>	Fuck the genre.

Well, these two lines seem to pretty well summarize the argument in a
nutshell. Dennis and "FALL88" disagree about Gurps Supers (among other
things) because they have fundamentally different approaches toward
gaming and what they want out of it. Unfortunately it seems to have
taken a whole lot of give-and take on "Gurps Supers is Broken" vs 
"G.S. is as good as any other superhero roleplaying system" to uncover
this one point.

Small plea: could people take a moment to think out such issues before
the next system-bashing flamewar happens? Maybe make them clear in the
first post on a thread, instead of the fifteenth?

York Dobyns		ydobyns@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: CP 2020: Novice GM question
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:49:07 GMT
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK

In article <batemanc.714069048@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
>
>*Armour is too good
>Solution: Use Fast-Kill rules from Challenge or Hardwired OR
>  Use legal restrictions, as described in Interface.
>
>Mad Chris.

Yo, Chris. Which issue of Challenge magazine is Scott Haring's revised
Fast-Kill system in? I was sure it was 52, but I might be wrong. You go
to Virgin Games and it's all pre-packed and you don't want to open every
single back issue of Challenge they have for an article that might not be
there, so could you (or someone else) tell me? I'd really like to see it
for myself, cause I just made up my own variation (works like a bitch in
a fantasy setting...) heh, heh.



-- 
		 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
             "Oh man, this is too real." - The Hard Way
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Music & Roleplaying
Keywords: Roleplaying, music
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:23:29 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <Bsyy21.JJG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus) writes:
>I've never used music for setting, but a player in one of my campaigns was
>playing a mage who substituted music for all of his verbal components.  So

	I have a character class in my world called "Music-Mage"; they need
a song for every spell... and every musicmage's spells are different. Generally
I DON'T allow people to use commercial songs for this since it's unlikely that
they'd come up with such bizarre lyrics in their culture. Besides, a player
who makes up his own verses tends to have more fun with it.

	I have done it the other way, though -- using songs from today for
spells...

>As a side note, what songs would you have picked for individual spells?  I 
>ask this to the net in general, and not restricted to any particular rpg,


	Okay, here are a few:

	Lightning bolt: AC/DC, "THUNDERSTRUCK"; "Thunder and Lightning"
	Protection from Lightning: Can't remember the title, but the
relevant lines are: "Lightning strikes but I feel no pain/I stand here laughing
in the pouring rain"
	Resurrection: "Stayin' Alive!"; "You only live twice"; "I am alive 
again"
	Death spell: "Live and Let Die"
	Fear spell: "The Enemy Within", "The Weapon",RUSH
	Aging spell: "Losing It", Rush
	Phantasmal Killer: Vincent Price's monologue from "Thriller"; modified
slightly...
	Protection from Evil: not really a song, but the prayer of (I think)
Saint Michael (from Madeline L'Engle's _Swiftly Tilting Planet_); I
modify it slightly:
	       "While in peril, in this hour
		I call all Heaven with its power
		And the Sun with its brightness
		The snows with their whiteness
		The seas with their deepness
		The hills with their steepness
		The swiftest winds along their path
		The lightning with its rapid wrath
		From all these I form a shield
		'Gainst all that darkling Powers wield
		One to withstand all that Evil sends
		Until the will to resist it ends."

	The ULTIMATE Music-Mage spell in my world is called "The Last Resort"
and is a modified version of the end of the Eagle's song of that name; the
version below was used on a Demonlord in the grand finale of a longrunning
campaign:

	       "I will provide the Grand Design
		What is yours, and what is mine
		If there is no more new frontier
		Then I shall create it here.
		I satisfy our many needs
		And end your life of bloody deeds
		Such is now my destiny;
		The slaying of a God.

		Now let us fill the air
		With the Light of Morning
		And songs which sing about
		The Light you cannot bear.
		The Light destroys your might,
		Proves it a lie;
		Before Truth lies cannot stand
		And so thus you die..."


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: viktor@mks.com (Viktor Haag)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Pendragon
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:02:35 GMT
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

In article <1992Aug13.151450.4819@news.cs.brandeis.edu> littlefield@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>	I've been kind of out of the rpg scene for a while, but I'd like to
>know the status on the rpg Pendragon. Is it still in print? If so, how much
>does it go for these days, and where could one pick up a copy?
>
>	Thanks in advance for any info.

Pendragon is out in its 3rd and finest edition.  It comes in a very nice
paperback (like Call of Cthulhu), and has a fairly obligatory supplement
called Knight's Adventurous as a second paperback.  The two together 
cost about 45$ Canadian, but you don't need the second to play the game.
Pendragon by itself goes for about 25$ Canadian.

There are also a number of supplement books out:
	The Boy King (a campaign that chronicles Arthur's rise to power)
	Savage Mountains (adventures in wales and western logres)
	Blood Lust (adventures in east logres)
	Perilous Forest (adventures in the perilous forest)

Pendragon, with its new edition, has made a strong move towards placing 
itself as one of the best made roleplaying games of all time.




-- 
Viktor Haag					viktor@mks.com
Mortice Kern Systems				(519) 884-2251
35 King North, Waterloo, Ontario		ext. 16
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: singley@helix.nih.gov (Erick D. Singley)
Subject: Re: Tales From The Floating Vagabond.
Keywords: Questions, Quality, Quizlings
Organization: (National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:56:15 GMT

Hmm, that didn't work.  What I meant to say was- I see Lee Garvin, one of the creators of Floating Vagabond every Sunday. I could pass along any comments to him, and if he and his bosses don't mind, could give dates for releases of books, comics and adventures.

Erick