HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Observations
Date: 15 Sep 1992 10:38:15 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <1992Sep10.030109.11724@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.172727.4011@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>It is irresponsible to not fix your brakes, get in an accident, and
>kill someone.  The penalty for this would most probably be
>a conviction on the charge of manslaughter.

Well, that's pretty damned stupid as far as 'observations' go.

You will note that if you DO fix your brakes and get into an accident and kill
someone you would ALSO face the charge of manslaughter.  It has zip to do with
the fixing of your brakes (your enforced responsibility example) but rather
has to do with killing someone.

>Wrong.  We do enforce responsible action on our citizens.  And the only
>result has been a huge upswing in the number of liability suits.

Well, hell, making certain actions the ONLY action by governmental fiat is
*not* enforcing 'responsible' action, it's taking responsibility AWAY from
'our' citizens.

And, you just knew I'd pipe up with the question of what the hell is 
'responsible' about having a child you don't want, cannot afford, and
had previously decided *not* to have????  That's downright IRresponsible.


Adrienne Regard

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Re: The use of fat black ass to describe Chaney
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:33:18 GMT

In article <29674@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU> smezias@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias) writes:
>Personally, I would never use fat black ass to describe an African
>American.  I believe that Chaney is deserving of all the put downs and
>contempt directed at him; nonetheless, I think the use of this
>terminology is an inappropriate racial slur.

And so Stephen J. Mess covers PatricKKK Harumphrey's tracks while
trying to make himself look good by spreading "Chaney is no good"
propaganda. 

One problem: Why is it that this feeling is only shared among the
pro-aborts? 

-----Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.0-------
	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS.
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Feminists for Life (was Controlling Women, etc.)
Date: 14 Sep 1992 22:07:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Feminists for Life??  And I thought Jews for Jesus was senseless!

If they're going to try to sell us something this stupid, what is
next?  Vegetarians for Veal?  Mac Freaks for Microsoft?  Leopards
for Logging?  Programmers for Punch Cards?  Gays for Gay Bashers?
Athletes for Athlete's Foot?  Slaves for Slavery?  Christians for
Cruelty? (Oops!  I forgot!  Sorry, Mr. Buchanan)  Adolescents for
Acne?

Whoever wrote this should go to work for Saturday Night Live.  It
has all the right buzz words and sound bites to have that sort of
radical feminist "I Am Woman" flavor, with not one single word of
genuine thought.  It is not only a fraud.  It is an insulting one
at that.  And not very effective.  The love of my life is totally
feminist and, as funny as I am, I have never made her laugh quite
as much as the Feminists For Life tripe did.  It stunned her that
these "feminists" believe that anyone but a moron would buy their
crap.  Try again, clowns.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Oh, so Rush ISN'T serious, eh, Astro Boy?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:34:55 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Sep10.000619.15914@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu
(Official researcher of USENET's Astro_Boy virus) wrote:
> 
> 
> Rush Limbaugh is DEAD serious. If you think he's not, then you're an
> idiot and he clearly said you are an idiot. The man is serious, he's
> making a lot of money, and little shits like you haven't stopped him
> yet. 
> 
> Rumor has it, he's got a TV show coming soon. 
> 
> What does Gloria Steinem have? 

Hmm.

Geraldo Rivera has a TV show.  The Dalai Lama does not.

What does this say about their relative value to the rest of the human
race?

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: Attention!
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:20:11 GMT

From article by decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz):
> 
> What the little feller fails to acknowledge is that Gloria
> Feldt may base her personal views on abortion on her religious
> perspective, but Gloria Feldt is not seeking to make her
> personal religious views the law of the land.  


Of course not.   She's already succeeded.   (For the time being.)


S. Forgach
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: control
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:35:08 GMT

In article <88501@netnews.upenn.edu> kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (No - No  Never) writes:
>In article <pmar1vs@fido.asd.sgi.com> cj@sgi.com writes:
>>Gosh, Nyikos, why don't you name for me a contraceptive
>>that's 100% effective?  That is, a contraceptive that will
>>prevent pregnancy for sexually active het women 100% of the
>>time.  Can you name one?
>
>Pants ( for both ).
Listen, shithead: I personally know a woman who had an abortion
following a pregnancy which was the result of a rape. Try telling
her that wearing pants is 100% effective.

-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
From: purdon@cons1.mit.edu (James Purdon)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Racism, not.
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:05:38 GMT
Organization: .

In article <1992Sep11.200250.927@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>|      |Come on, Steve.  Let's  |      | 
>|      |see just how much of a  |      | 
>|      |boy you are.  March     |      | 
>|      |your fat black ass down |      | 
>|      |here and tell me I'm a  |      | 
>|      |liar, to my face.       |      | 
>|      |  - PatricKKK Humphrey  |      | 

In context, this statement appears to be merely insulting, rather than racist.
In fact, it may not even be insulting, but only impolite, depending on whether
or not you think calling someone "fat" and "black" is insulting or impolite
(it is my opinion that the use of "ass" is almost always impolite). For
example, I should hope that no one would think the phrase "My doctor is a fat
black man" is racist (if you do, then in my book you are probably a
racist in denial).  On the other hand, replacing "fat black man" with
"lazy nigger" definately smacks of racism.  I don't feel the two phrases
are equivalent at all.
  
Calling phrases like "fat black ass" racist only trivializes the meaning
of the terms "racist" and "racism".  There's a world of difference between
using an impolite expression and being of a mindset that believes in racial
inferiority.  Those who attempt to blur the distinction do themselves and
the world no favors.

-- 
Jim

Once I was single.  Now I am married.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Right to Kill (was Re: Cough Man's hypocrisy)
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.010504.880@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>From article by rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla):
>> In article forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>> I would suggest that this is dubious at best. Typically, cannibalism
>> is viewed as EATING human flesh.
>Mere consumption is an acceptable definition to me.
Dubious, very dubious.

>> However, if we extend it this far, we've clearly included organ 
>> transplantation and I think arguably blood transfusions. To do so
>> effectively robs the term "cannibal" of any shock value.
>
>With organ transplantation and blood transfusions, you have willing or
>dead doners (who've already indicated they want to donate anyway).
>
>With fetal tissue, it's killing, stealing, and consuming, and that's all.
I don't see that the consentual status of the tissue provider
is relevant to whether it is cannibalism or not.

So, Ms. Forgach, it seems to me that you have just defined
receiving an organ donation as cannibalism. It's a natural
consequence of your definition. Wouldn't you agree?
-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Ikky-grossness revisited
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:36:29 GMT
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works

Regarding the latest influx of the 'blood and gore' argument
against abortion, did anyone see the movie "The Competition?"
Remember the blood on the keyboard when Amy Irving 'played'
the Prokofiev C-Major Piano Concerto?

(if you know what's coming, press 'n' now)


Classical music should be outlawed!!!  Blood on the keyboard
is ikky-gross and should not be seen by children or faint-
hearted men!!!

Prokofiev was obviously anti-pianist and anti-wolf and his
recordings should be taken out and burned!!!

This country needs to get back to traditional music values,
as espoused by Willie Nelson, Hank Williams Jr. and Merle
Haggard.

Sing it, brothers and sisters:

"I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball,
We still fly Old Glory down by the courthouse,
and White Lightning still the greatest thrill of all."

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
    Not those mamby pamby wimp liberal "oh dear someone somewhere
    has done something unnice, I'll call the kare bears..." -- drieux
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Subject: Comments Re: Beth Bartley on Misogyny
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:33:52 GMT

I see a parallel here to the differences between how whites and blacks
(to use convenient labels) perceive the problems of white-black
racism.  To paraphrase an article I read in _The_American_Perspective_
(which seemed to draw from comments made by Studs Terkel), whites tend
toward seeing racism as a matter of individual intent, and blacks tend
toward seeing racism as systemic in nature and manifest in the absence
of individual intent.  This conclusion was reached by interviewing
people on their views about racism.

The parallel one might draw is that feminists could be expected to see
misogyny as systemic and manifest in the absence of individual intent,
and anti-feminists (to avoid flammable language and be politically
correct) could be expected to see misogyny as more individual in
nature.  I hold this expectation.

Note:  I realize there are anti-abortion feminists, as well as
pro-choice anti-feminists, but my impression is that each are
overwhelmed in number by anti-abortion anti-feminists and pro-choice
feminists respectively.

-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

"there's a lot going on that you miss. nothing soft about THESE
machines. mean, timeless, mean, purposeful, crammed with meaning."
                                                  -- Andrew Palfreyman
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: control
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:25:10 GMT
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less

kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu writes:
# cj@sgi.com writes:
# >Gosh, Nyikos, why don't you name for me a contraceptive
# >that's 100% effective?  That is, a contraceptive that will
# >prevent pregnancy for sexually active het women 100% of the
# >time.  Can you name one?
# 
# Pants ( for both ).

I have at least one acquaintance for whom trousers proved to be
insufficient for the purposes of contraception.  The one I am sure
about was a woman.  She was confident that her pants would stay on and
she would not be impregnated.  She was raped.  And became pregnant.
You could say her contraception failed.

This is not a joke, Mr. Welch.

-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

"there's a lot going on that you miss. nothing soft about THESE
machines. mean, timeless, mean, purposeful, crammed with meaning."
                                                  -- Andrew Palfreyman
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:22:56 GMT

In <18qeapINNpvc@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:

>In article <1992Sep11.144108.10600@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
>>[very premature baby survives and goes home after long time in hospital]
>>  Ray, are you in favor then of triage for all? 
>>... This can happen when there are too many casualties to
>>treat (say after a battle, or a major urban disaster).  

>(Of course, this is exactly what *does* happen after a battle or a major
>urban disaster, so it doesn't require anybody's 'approval'...)
>>
>>  Somehow, I think this mind-set will meet with some resistance when you include
>>money in the criteria.  

>I think, as we see the bulge of population known as the baby boom age, and
>fail in their age, and begin to die, we will see a *lot* of weird criteria
>in medicine.  Those who have property that can be attached will be served.
>Those who don't -- hmmmmm.  As the wealth transfer from baby boomers to
>doctors beings to take a bigger and bigger bite out of the next generation,
>you'll see a different set of criteria emerge.

>All of this has been happening over the past 40 years or so, true, but it's
>the sheer number of the baby boomers that is going to bring this to the fore.
>We simply cannot, as a people, afford $250,000 worth of medical care for 
>each and every old person to extend their lives by a few months.  And before
>anybody out there goes leaping upon me, please bear in mind that I'm older
>than most of you...I'm no 18 year old kid to whom grey hair means 'ancient'.
>I'm speaking instead of the skyrocketing cost of medical care that is a 
>demonstrable phenomenon in our society, and what I think will be happening
>with it.

>I recall the description of pneumonia as 'the old man's friend', by a 
>physician friend of mine.  As technology advances, and we *can* extend lives,
>we have to decide when and when not to do so.  (We being very rhetorical
>in this case.  I don't think *I* have any business deciding for someone else,
>obviously (-:). 

>Adrienne Regard

Son of a gun! Adrienne CAN be sensible if she wants to be. [I've known this
for some time, but this is the first real opportunity to say it on the net.]

One factor she fails to mention.  These problems are greatly exacerbated
by the fact that in every year since Roe v. Wade the USA "fertility level"
has been WELL below ZPG, making our population more and more top-heavy as
years go by.  

I wonder if Adrienne would care to comment on what the effect on
the "population pyramid" would be if abortion were, say, only permitted
(1) in the "hard cases" of threat to the life of the mother, rape, and
incest and (2) under my more generous conditions.

Peter Nyikos
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Peter, do you even know how to READ? (Was: 3 docs in a 3-way).
Date: 14 Sep 1992 08:41:43 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com
Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions?  Dream on...

In article <nyikos.716335245@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>In <18novvINN6jc@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>
>What a grotesque distortion.
>Did you also read the part where I say you seem to 
> have shown no signs of growing
>as a human being in the past 7 years?  Your distortion reinforces this
>impression.

Peter,

Careful now, fella.

I have a copy of a posting of yours, not more than 2 months old, I believe,
where you state you had been on the net less than 7 days.  

Now, unless you were *lying* (this is merely a clause in the sentence, not
an accusation, you understand -- I wouldn't dream of accusing you of such
a despicable thing....) you wouldn't have much experience to base the
statement above upon, now would you?  You haven't been party to the large
amount of those 7 years to observe or not observe 'growing as a human being'
in any way, have you?

But you couldn't be speaking through your *hat* again, now could you?

(You will notice that line was concluded with a "?".  That indicates a 
question.  Just thought I'd mention it since you seem to have trouble with
such signs.)  

>>Kinda makes me *glad* you have decided I'm not on your list of 'compassionate'
>>people, because I wouldn't like the company, or the definition.
>
>I'm beginning to hatch a bit of speculation, not backed up yet by any solid
>facts, mind you, that just as Dennis Hall is alleged to be a fictional name
>of Steve Chaney, just so   Adrienne Regard      is a fictional name for
>                            drieux
>or vice versa.  


drieux!  Now *there's* company I would appreciate. 

Yeah, do that, Peter.  Cross drieux and I right off your list of 'people'.
That's the "compassionate" thing to do:  make a whole list of excuses for
a fellow who swore to God or Allah that he would have killed a woman, but
by all means, disqualify drieux and I from the company of people because we
haven't done such 'excusable' things.....

You really haven't a clue how much damage you do yourself, do you, Peter?

Note that question mark again.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  5 Sep 92 01:15:19 GMT

In <1992Sep3.213620.21098@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:

>In <1992Sep3.201731.13010@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:

>>From article <1992Aug26.061545.18227@s1.gov>, by lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich):
>>> 
>>> 	Well, to be fair, even Jesus Christ was known for white-hot
>>> rages, or so his biographers depict. Consider what those poor Scribes
>>> and Pharisees suffered.

>>Oh, yeah, He really crucified them.
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>     I am disgusted. I find this lighthearted treatment of the Savior's
>agony on the cross appalling and blasphemous. I demand an apology!

>                                                     MP.

You don't fool me for one second, M. Price.  I wonder if anyone doesn't
see you are being sarcastic.

Peter Nyikos



Xref: sparky talk.abortion:36701 alt.rush-limbaugh:4953
From: eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Abortion rights and responsibilities
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:59:59 GMT
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <pt4l1ic@fido.asd.sgi.com> cj@sgi.com writes:
+In article <sehFRsm00WB001PlEh@andrew.cmu.edu>, ts2a+@andrew.cmu.edu writes:
+|Anyone noticed that the people claiming abortion should be
+|treated like any other elective surgery are the ones who scream
+|loudest when it actually is.
+
+What?  You mean it's normal to have people picketing your
+orthodontist and screaming about "tooth murder" when you go in
+for orthodontic work?  Radical fundamentalists harass doctors
+who perform vasectomies?  Really?  
+
+Guess there are more lunatics in the world than I thought.

Last time I checked, you were born with your teeth. Granted your teeth
were in your gums forming when you were born, but you had teeth, and
teeth are a part of your body. I don't know about "tooth murder."

As for harassing doctors for performing vasectomies, well, guys who
volunteer (unless ordered by government as punishment as is being tried
in some places, so I've heard) to get a vasectomy do so with the
intention of getting sterilized. You don't see people protesting tubal
ligations which is an analogous procedure to vasectomies.


-- 
Emil Thomas Chuck (Duke BME '93)		eyc@acpub.duke.edu
I'm too busy for my class, too busy for my clubs, too busy for my work.
I'm too busy for my mail, too busy for my news, too busy for my calls.
I'm too busy for this .sig. 
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: What is the price of 1 Kidney (Was: Through the looking glass...)
Summary: Why? 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions?  Dream on... 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 17:03:10 GMT

In article <nyikos.715736750@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>
>Now you seem to be misstating my views.  I never said anything about a 
>heartbeat being necessary or sufficient for being alive.  
>
>Also, you seem to miss Adrienne's point.  She accuses me of feeling quite
>free to stake a woman's life on a continued pregnancy.  But I do make
>exception for conditions endangering a woman's life, and Adrienne knows
>that by now, or should.
>

Aren't you the same person who was babbling something about "health problems
equal to the loss of a kidney" recently?
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
="When trying to choose between two evils, I like to choose the one I haven't =
= tried before" - Mae West, but I think I'm going to try it also...           =
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr)
Subject: Re: The christian perspective...?
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 21:30:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.222608.1@vf.jsc.nasa.gov>, mcmillan@vf.jsc.nasa.gov
writes:
> 
> In article <1992Sep10.221038.8158@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis) writes:
> > In article <1992Sep10.150225.1@vf.jsc.nasa.gov> mcmillan@vf.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
> > }There.  I tried to give my reasoning for being pro-life without going into the
> > }Biblical side of it.  
> > 
> Yes it should be made illegal.  Yes I am pro-choice--for the baby.  Let it
> (via nature) decide if it is going to live or die.  The one person in this
> world it should not have to fear is its mother.

I would be interested in hearing about the Biblical support for making 
abortion illegal.  

Please note, I am not asking if there is Biblical support for the
immorality of abortion, just for making it illegal.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion