HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: m13079@mwunix (Mary Anne Walters)
Subject: _The American Way of Birth_
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:39:11 GMT


I posted recently referencing a book I had read about but had only very
sketchy info.  Well, now I have the full info and a review.  All who follow
the drugs/no drugs, episiotomy or not, cesarean or not, etc. threads will be
interested:

_The American Way of Birth_ by Jessica Mitford
Dutton/Abrahams; $22 (Due in November)

Mitford interviewed obstet., midwives, and antenatal and postnatal mothers
for this journalistic probe of how Americans are born.  In graceful prose
she relates our appalling infant mortality rate to the obstacles poor women
face in finding prenatal care and decent hospital treatment.  After reviewing
the potential hazards of obstetrical forcepts, electronic fetal monitoring
and diagnostic ultrasound, Mitford discusses the complications mothers often
face after having a cesarean section and examines the financial and legal
motives behind doctors' widespread performance of these largely unnecessary
procedures.  She takes readers on a grand tour of the midwifery scene, from
a Bronx center for low-risk women to a California context in which the
medical establishment harasses home birth midwives with police breakins.
In an epilogue Mitford documents hospital routines and deceptive overbilling,
critisizes the AMA's powerful lobby, which squelches healthcare reform, and
reviews efforts to pass a Canadian-style national health insurance bill that
would eliminate the profiteering of US hospitals and doctors.

(This review appeared in Publisher's Weekly, credited to Genevieve Stuttaford)

The review notes, too, that serial rights went to Good Housekeeping, so I
expect we can get a preview of the book prior to publication in one of the
upcoming issues.

Just more grist for the mill :-)

 
--
--Mary Anne  
"What we have once enjoyed and deeply loved we can never lose, for all
that we love deeply becomes a part of us."  Helen Keller
                                                 [for Alexander]
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
From: kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle)
Subject: Re: Clare DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:33:12 GMT

jackie8@dasher.uucp (Jackie Brady) writes:

>In <lots of> articles (several people) write:
>[ name calling, arguing, hitting, slapping and lots of other
fun
>playground bullying deleted ]

>do *not* change the subject titles, please.  I mean I kill off
>"BARBIE does it again" and am saved from reading all that, and
>now someone starts a new thread called "Clare does it again".

Methinks it's time to look into using regular expressions in
kill files.  They have a competition for this kind of thing on the
soc.history groups, attempting to kill as many articles as possible by
a certain Mr hasan b mutlu with a single regular expression.  I think
the record was 47 in one morning. 

It's possible, using sensible newsreaders such as nn, to kil articles
with all manner of stuff in their titles in one fell soup.  And you
can always kill by name as well.  (Ask a Un*x guru, I think regular
expression class is hard.)
-- 

Kiran Wagle                           <kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Subject: Names for Grandmother (was: Names)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:55:25 GMT

In article <3628@creatures.cs.vt.edu> debra@creatures.cs.vt.edu (Debra Potts) writes:
>Of course, none of us called her Melvin, or even great grandma.  No,
>we called her "Bobby," which was a bastardization of "Big Mama," which
>is apparently what a lot of deep south grannies are called!

That sounds a lot like what I called my Grandma-in-Europe (as opposed
to Grandma-in-Chicago).  In the Czech language, the term for "grandma"
is "babi'", pronounced "bubby".  My mother, also Czech-born, is called
that by her grandchildren including my son!!!

My college roommate used to call her grandmother "Dang-Mommy" and her
grandfather was "Dang-Dang."  That's the way her older brother mispronounced
it when he was little and it stuck.  They would not hear of being called
anything else.  When she'd write them a letter she'd first write the
whole thing and then quickly, so nobody could see, she'd scribble "Dear
Dang-Mommy and Dang-Dang" at the top of the letter, flod it seal it and mail
it.

Of course, I have an "Auntie Lantie" so who am I to talk ...

-Nance
-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*    o__    *^*^*^*^*  |  Work that body!
att!ihlpk!colucci            _.>/               | Stay fit for life.
                            (_) \(_)
From: lynn@elan.Elan.COM (Lynn Gazis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Aggression in boys (Was: Re: BARBIE
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:53:16 GMT
Reply-To: lynn@elan (Lynn Gazis)
Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

> On the contrary, your story is as typical as a story can get.  The

Interesting you see it that way.  In one of the previous "bully"
threads in this group, someone told me that my case was atypical,
and that the typical case involved a boy who picked on another
boy and immediately stopped when the victim fought back (the other
comments in this thread make me suspect that the previous respondent
was wrong, and my case isn't that unusual).

> Did you have any extended family, especially cousins, in the
> community?  

No, my father was a Greek immigrant, and my cousins were all
in Greece.  My mother's relatives were in California (we were
in New York).  I did have a very large nuclear family (seven
kids, three of whom were cousins adopted after the death of
an aunt - they arrived and joined our family the year after
I skipped).

> Were you new _in_the_community?

No, we had moved there when I was ten months old.

> Were you a different social class or ethnic group form the 
> majority of the other students?

We were the only Greek-American family I knew until something
like 8th or 9th grade.  There were some Italian-Americans
and a fairly large Jewish contingent, so it wasn't pure WASP.
We weren't poor, but the large number of children and the
fact that the school was located in a relatively wealthy
community made us appear relatively poor.  I can remember
when I got older and we would go to school in hand-me-downs
in an environment where the kids made a big deal of having
the right clothes (didn't keep me from making friends in
high school though, and didn't keep some of my sisters from
being popular).

> And why didn't you tell a teacher? or your father talk to the
> boys' fathers?

I had picked up that I was being picked on for being a weakling,
and telling an adult would make me more of a weakling.  In
junior high school, an adult did eventually intervene with
one of the worst bullies, and got him to stop.  Up until that
point, it didn't seem as if the adults were doing anything
effective (I know now that both my parents were worried
about the situation, but don't know everything that they
tried to stop it).

Lynn Gazis-Sax
From: eaton@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bob Eaton x3478)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: HYPOCRISY of Public School Prayer
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:12:40 GMT

> I mean, what is there to pray about anyway.... there certainly
> aren't any aggressive bullies in public schools, we've
> proven that beyond a shadow of doubt (they are all myth right :-)
> Drugs, guns, STDs, pregnancy, no sweat.  Climbing academic
> scores, the USA has the top students in the world right!

This reminds me of a (subversive Christian :-) cartoon that showed in one 
schoolroom a bunch of obvious drug heads hanging (and making) out, and in 
another one some students trying to have a Bible study.

The Principle and teacher were examining the situation and exclaiming that, 
"We got to stop this [Bible study] right now!!!"

Aren't we silly?
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25556 sci.med:18780
From: apland@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:17:47 -0700
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Malaspina College

> It is painful to watch devoted and well meaning parents
> who are trying to protect their child from something terrible
> that doesn't exist ("possible long term effects of Ritalin")
> and in the process perhaps causing him serious long term harm.
> I would urge you and your wife to make a thorough study of
> the literature on Ritalin.  At least, you should consider trying it short
> term to see what a difference in might make for your son.
> No one thinks there are any harmful effects from a short
> course.  That would give you more data in order to make a
> decision which will have lifelong repercussions for this
> child.  

I agree.  I noticed that Mr Idler's original post was more open than his
more recent posts.  Be careful father, that you are not being pushed into a
corner (psychologically) and that your battle now is to defend your decision
rather than look after the best interests of your child.  Another tact you
might take is to observe a child who has been appropriately diagnosed and
treated with Ritalin or Cylert to see what its effects are.  If nothing else
it should dispel the idea that the child is being tranquilized.  You may find
there are other children in the same class who are very active but are not
ADD children and who are being treated with behavioural techniques.  What that
should suggest is the ability of professionals to discriminate conditions and
prescribe the appropriate therapy.

>I'm assuming, of course, that your son has had
> a proper consultation with a pediatric neurologist or
> psychiatrist to determine that the correct diagnosis is ADD.
> (In addition, there are other drugs, such as Cylert, which
> are less potent than Ritalin and might work for him).

This occurred to me as well.

I would also suggest you go back and read (again) the couple of posts by Ruth
Ginzberg.  Her logical analysis of the arguments in this thread is good and
comes pretty close to the conclusions of a review of the literature concerning
alergies and ADD published in Psychological Bulletin, November '89.

Ron
Xref: sparky misc.kids:25476 misc.education:3633 k12.chat.teacher:4149 sci.med:18740
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:02:10 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct6.192151.977@ll.mit.edu> yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:

>	Additionally, our friend (mentioned in my letter) had wanted
>	to see Dr Rapp.  Her son is almost allergic to air, and
             
I'm not quite sure what you're doing at MIT, but you should be in
Las Vegas. You could get a great job as a stand up comedian. Or
maybe as a straight man for Reverend Ike.

 -km
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: AnyoneSurgery
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:02:23 GMT

I just had surgery last week (fixed my nose so I can breathe again and while
it was miserable, I'm pretty pleased with the results) and was sitting next
to several children lined up mostly for ear tubes, but one child for some
more serious surgery.

The nurse had a play room where the children and their parents went and
they showed the equipment that would be used, talked about the surgery, and
basically helped the children come to terms with what was happening.  They
use a gas mask to put the child to sleep initially so there is no pain of
inserting and IV or anything like they do to us adults.  A parent can hold
the child while he is falling asleep and can be right there when the child
begins to come to.

All in all I was impressed with the very positive way they dealt with the
children.  

I would suggest that you talk to your son about what is going to happen, what
the surgery involves, that he will be sore for a while but it will go away,
he'll be asleep for the procedure, etc.  Don't sugar coat it, but don't act
like it is the end of the world either.  The parents I saw had very matter
of fact attitudes toward the surgeries and I felt this was really healthy
for the kids.  

Good luck!


-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:28:35 GMT

In article <ki2isB1w165w@depsych.Gwinnett.COM> rc@depsych.Gwinnett.COM (Richard Carlson) writes:
>
>There could, and probably should, be a whole thread on this point.
>Is it an old wive's tale that kids who fight back never get picked
>on, or is that moderated by how well you do it or how hard you
>hit?  What does "do it better" mean in this context?  Did you ever
>land a punch?  Did they have any force behind them?


In my case I was the principal's son in grades 5-8. There were a
a couple of bullys who precipaitated fights with me and they
never bothered me again when I fought back. Can't say I ever
landed a decent punch either. My explanation is that they
figured the principal's son had to be a dink and wouldn't fight
back. When I did that was all I had to prove, I didn't have to be
a GOOD fighter, I just had to have nerve enough to try.
   
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Remembering Dreams/Cute Things (2 yrs)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:05:20 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Oct9.190826.24365@linus.mitre.org>, kvt@willow.mitre.org writes:
> Has anyone else had a very sleepy 2 year old
> wake up and express what you know had to be
> a dream?  I have trouble remembering mine 
> sometimes, I sure didn't expect my daughter
> to remember her's yet. Is this common?

Well, Daniel (age 3) has nightmares about his sister playing with
his toys -- he's been known to wake up screaming, ``Abecca -- give
me back my toys!''

It's happened more than once, too....
From: sherisse@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: places to live in the USA
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:10:18 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <92281.175842IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
> since we're on the subject, more or less, of places...
> 
> how doe sone go about finding out what school systems
> are like when one doesn't even live in the state in
> question?  i'm thinking of moving to boston in december,
> and i have to think about what section of the city (or
> suburb thereof) i want to live in, and schools and rents
> are the major considerations...  any and all advice
> cheerfully accepted!
> 
In Albuquerque at least, the YWCA was the place to go for those kind of
questions, especially those about child-care and schools.

Sherisse
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Names (don't do this to your kids)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:50:43 GMT

I have to get in on this one...

There's the CEO of my old corporation and a prominant name in the LA UNIX
area:  Peter Weiner.

And I went to school with a girl named Peaches Pitts whose older sister was
named Cherry.

And, of course, my son who was ALMOST named Mitchell Lynn Tyrer  (but we
resisted giving him my maiden name of Leedom instead).


-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Stereotypes in School (Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 17:17:56 GMT

In article <23838@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.175954.8650@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>>  These stereotypes really do affect people.  In my case I had
>On that we agree.  They affect people, nearly always to bad
>effect, and more or less continuously, without respite.
>>  two stereotypes being applied to me and they sort of canceled
>>  out.  I was good in math and science, as well as English, and social
>>  studies, etc.  Since I am female, a lot of people would just as
>>  well apply the "feminine" stereotype of being bad in Math
>>  and good in English.  However I am also Asian American and
>>  the stereotype for Asian Americans is to be bad in English
>>  and good in math. 
>Yeah, not surprising. Sad, but hardly surprising. What IS
>surprising is that they didn't do what I'm sure they would
>have done around where I grew up, which was to apply both
>of the negative stereotypes, without any attention to the
>positive stereotypes, and you would have been expected to
>be both un-understandable verbally and inept at mathmatics.

  You're right.  That would have been really bad.  Asians are
  bad in English, and women are bad in math.  So Asian women
  are bad in everything.

  One person brought up an interesting point that maybe I was
  pushed into mathematics precisely because of being female.
  He's a professor and says that these days, to be PC, or
  maybe just feeling bad that women are not well represented
  in math, they tend to push any female student who happens
  to be good in math and science towards careers in those
  fields.  That's actually progress!

>
>Oh, *&^(*&, can't we ever get rid of these stereotypes?

  That's what we're hoping for.   In fact, I think there is too
  much stereotyping for boys too.  Boys are given GI Joe dolls
  (oooppps, action figures, excuse me...)  A boy who wants to
  be a ballet dancer or poet is made fun of.  Boys can't wear
  certain types of clothes, unless it's a Scottish kilt.
  I wonder if a talking GI Joe doll saying, "Housework is boring."
  would get the response of Barbie saying, "Math is hard."
  This incident even made it to this week's NewsWeek magazine.
  But remember, you heard it on the net first!  :-)
>
>I'm not likely to buy a Barbie for my 2yr old female offspring
>anyhow (I'd rather get a hammer and pliers, personally, and
>she likes to bang on things. GO KID), but now I'm real *(&^*&
>sure I won't.  If she wants a Barbie, she can get a job :-)
>doing carpentry :-).

  Nah, just don't give her a talking Barbie, until the PC
  police figure out what things she can say that won't insult
  anybody.  In which case, they'd tape her mouth shut, and
  say, "Unseal at your own risk."  :-)

  Maybe I'll buy a talking Barbie for my son.  Got to get him
  used to all the chatter...  "Let's get pizza."  Yeah!
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education,k12.chat.teacher,sci.med,chi.general
From: learn@speedy.acns.nwu.edu (William J. Vajk)
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
Organization: Dares No Organization Like Dis Organization
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:01:23 GMT

In article <00718501558@elgamy.buster.TX.US> Eric Lee Green writes:


>Strangely enough, the educational treatment is the same whether the child
>has an "attention deficit disorder" or a "did not learn how to attend when
>he was young" disorder. I.e., teach "coping skills", small class with much
>individual attention, a formal behavior management system with much
>positive reinforcement, etc.

>The same applies to "treatment" of ADD. It doesn't matter, really, whether
>ADD is primarily a medical or a behavioral problem, except to the doctor
>who may be prescribing medicine. To the educator, though, the student is
>treated the same either way -- small class, individual attention, shortened
>assignments, etc.

The real problem is sort of submerged in your response, though the key
words are there for all to see. The "don't care" followed by procedural
dictum is indicative of the general attitude of educational professionals
who see the ADDH child as a special case to be wharehoused rather than
as an individual who is part of a continuum.

I was in Laureen Braswell's lecture this afternoon entitled "Cognitive
Behavioral School Interventions: Key Components of the Minnesota
Competence Enhancement Project."

What I consider should be the norm for caring, concern, and interaction
among the interested parties (student, parents, school_system) is
actually considered to be extraordinary intervention by educators
today. I remember teachers who realy thought and taught, dedicated
persons with rwal goals. What I see today, for the most part, is
teachers who are civil servants (including the normally associated
care-less attitudes.) I see teachers who are beat up on by their
principal to submit their weekly lesson plan on time, who don't
give essay style tests because they're too difficult to correct
and grade.

Laureen pointed out that the average "normal" student is only 70-80%
compliant, while the average ADDH student is between 40 and 60% compliant.
But what she left out is that once a student is labelled and referred,
the baseline of acceptability becomes 100%. In short, to be mainstreamed,
they must outperform what is considered acceptable in others.

And too, school systems are required to provide schooling till age 16
in most states. Betcha the drive-em-out rate is much higher for your
referred special education children than it is for the general
population.

Bill Vajk
From: rc@depsych.Gwinnett.COM (Richard Carlson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 10-year-old ostracized at school
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:22:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: depsych.3FwosB1w165w

janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus) writes:

> >of course, if someoen out there has actually found somethign
> >that HELPS in this sort of situation,i would be glad to hear
> >it as well.  because this is one case where even afterthought
> >doesn't help...  for me, anyway...
> 
> I already expressed my opinion in private mail to Mary, but in 
> answer to this request, I'll restate it here.  The answer is
> (drum-roll) self-defense training.  Okay, you misc.kids folks
> are probably sick of hearing from me on this subject, but once
> again I have to say:  try it, it works!  I myself am a graduate
> of Model Mugging training, and this was the best investment in
> myself that I ever made.  While self-defense training might not
> be an immediate cure for a particularly nasty situation at school,
> it will help build self-confidence and self-esteem as well as
> provide another social outlet, and this is a step in the right
> direction.  As the politicians would say: "Trust me on this one!".

I think you are right in principle, but implementing it can be
tricky, as you yourself suggest.  If the kid gets the message that
he is in training, like Mike Tyson or Buster Douglas, to take on
the bully whom he probably thinks he hasn't got a chance with
anyway, then he's doing to sabotage the training.

My guess is that if you want to do self-defense training (which is
the only kind of strength training that is legal with juveniles
since they are not allowed in body-building gyms), you should
solve their immediate problem in some way first.

--
Richard Carlson
Internet:              rc@depsych.gwinnett.COM
Bangpath:              {rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!depsych!rc
CompuServe:            76605,470
Voice:                 (404) 881-6877
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles