From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: MACS COST TOO MUCH (NOT!)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:10:14 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <jochenw.716044100@akela> jochenw@akela.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Jochen Wolters) writes:

>  Can you prove your point? Nope, you can't, since ease of use does
>depend on personal preferences. 

Yes, I can.  All I need to do is sit down with a user and a stopwatch.
You are confusing science (in this case, ergonomics) with opinion.


>I know a lot of folks, who are glad
>that they don't have to use a GUI and others that wouldn't get their
>work done without one. 

I know a lot of people who are glad they read their horoscopes
everyday and a lot of people who don't.  That does not change
the fact that it is bunk.


>  If you love your Mac and its Finder as much as I do -yep, I'm a Mac
>addict as well!- that's fine. But you have to accept that there's
>different strokes for different folks. 

Which is why you guys are spending so much time trying to tell
us that "MACS COST TOO MUCH," right?  


>Just because we prefer a GUI
>doesn't mean that CLIs are necessarily inferior in general. 

No.  The fact that actual measurements show that CLIs are
slower means that they are inferior.   

And let me add, once again, that the Macintosh does not have
a GUI.  It simply has an interface.  Real computers do not
need three-letter acronyms just to make simple things sound
IMPORTANT.


>>False.  It takes longer to remember and type a command line
>>than it does to click on an icon. 

>  That's a question of practice. 

No, it's not.  Remembering uses a different part of the brain
than recognizing does.  EEGs prove that, and no amount of
practice will change it.


>And there are things that you
>absolutely can't handle in a decent way when using a GUI like
>the finder. Just try to rename a list of files with named
><blahblahblah>.FORM to <blahblahblah>.FRM. And let's assume
>you have a list of 25 files. 'Lot of work for the GUI user ...

Maybe for a *GUI* user, but not for a Macintosh user.  This
can be handled by a simple drag-and-drop application. 


>Proof?! A real UNIX hacker wouldn't care for those studies
>anyways; they would stick to their CLI and be happy with it!

In other words, who needs facts when we've got (uninformed) opinions.


>And if you don't remember the name correctly, "even" the Finder's 
>find command will get you nowhere...

Wrong.  Obviously, you've never used System 7.  You don't have to 
remember the entire name to use Find.  It's enough to remember
part of the name, or the file's (exact or approximate) creation date,
or the modification date, or the file type.


>  Right, but you have to at least remember part of the filename.
>Finding a file on other systems, however, is as powerful and
>easy as on the Mac. 

Really?  You should try using the UNIX "find" command sometime.
It's actually faster to type in a much of "ls" commands to find
the file yourself.


>  Sure, if you have 100's of programs, you'll have trouble 
>remembering their names. But the average user will most
>definitely use maybe 5..10 programs. Should be no big deal
>to remember those names or approach them with aliases...

First of all, most Mac users I know use a lot more than
50 or 10 programs.  Maybe you're confusing us with PC
users?  Secondly, it may not be a big deal to remember
a few names, but what about all the options that go with
those names?  Let's see, what does the -b option do with
the foo utility?  Creates a backup file?  No, it deletes
one -- I was thinking of the bar utility.


>>Turtles have shells.  Computers don't.  (See below.)
> 
>  Bull^H^H. I mean: wrong :-)))))))))) Why bother with names if
>they have become a standard?! You wouldn't worry about your
>"mouse", since everybody calls it that way, although it 
>actually shouldn't be eaten by your cat :-))))

A "mouse" looks like a mouse.  It has a body, a "tail,"
some even have ears.  A PC "shell," does not look or act
like a shell.  Now if you could hold it up to your ear
and hear the ocean, that would be different.


>  Names like "FINDER" or Interface do?

The finder finds thing.  That's simple enough.  An interface
is "the place at which independent systems meet or interact."
That's what the dictionary says.  So, what's the problem. 


>Jochen Wolters       |          jochenw@POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen.de  
>--------------******* America, vote Clinton! *******------------------

Interesting.  Why is it that Europeans are always crying that
"American should not interfere in the affairs of foreign nations"
but never hesitate to tell America how it should run its government?
I wonder how many indignant, self-righteous replies I'd get if 
I tried to tell you to vote for in the Danish elections.



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