HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: my theory about why some people are irritated at Ed
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:13:11 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

A flame. If you read further, don't bitch to me afterwards. And,
if you quote my posting, be sure to include this spoiler.




















Enigma writes:
: And none of the other guys seem to get it, either.  It's not the
: content of what Ed says, guys, it's the *tone*.

Yes, Ed's tone is nasty but so also is the content.

Once upon a time, Ed told some lies about me and mine on this
newsgroup. When called on them, he lied some more and played the
obfuscation game. If this had just been the one time, one might
ignore it; however, this is simply part of his normal pattern.

Whatever else he is, Ed is an abuser. His presence is near the
top of my "why I don't post" list and his continued presence
makes it much harder for me to post than it would otherwise be.

I will not debate whether Ed did or did not lie or whether he
knew what he was doing or anything else on that topic.
Specifically, I am ignoring both posts and e-mail from Ed. Kill
files are wonderful.

I have in my files the relevant data which I have carefully
checked to ensure that my belief is not merely a product of my
own problems. I don't have to convince you; my purpose in writing
this flame is that, so long as I don't say flat out that Ed is an
abuser and say it often enough that I know that I'm not hiding
that belief, I will find myself prevented from saying other things
that I need to say.


Prisoner
(Male, in case anyone doesn't know.)



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Susan R Pence <srpence@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: test
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:33:54 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

tttttttttttest
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--------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: My dad wrote
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:22:10 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Today I received a letter from my dad.  I was surprised that I got a letter
from him that quickly.  When I read it, I couldn't believe my eyes-- he
actually seemed to understand where I was coming from.  He said that he
realized my mom was overbearing, and that at first, he tried to stand up for
himself, but eventually he stopped because he was afraid my mom might die
during her first pregnancy.  (I have no idea exactly what happened then
myself.)

He also said he tried to get my mom into counseling with him a long time ago,
except that she didn't want their dirty laundry aired.  Even though I don't
like the idea of divorce, I've had the feeling for a long time that my
parents should have gotten divorced many years ago.  The letter from my dad
only reinforces that view.  It sounds like my mom has refused to admit to
anything for years, and that she still refuses to change.  My dad said he
still wants to see her change, but I don't think that's going to happen.  I
know I'm glad I've gotten away from their unhealthy relationship, now if only
he can do it as well.

My dad seemed to have nothing wrong with the fact that I'm getting
counseling.  Of course, I haven't told my dad yet about some of the things HE
did to me.  It's going to get difficult then.  I haven't told him about the
abuse either, but I know that my dad did not know about it, either, so he
gets no blame for it.

Two questions for you ASAR readers:

1. Do you think my dad should get a divorce from my mother?

2. Have any of you read the book 'Contagious Emotions' (by Ronald Podell,
MD)?  My dad mentioned it in the letter.

Keep the faith!
The Captain



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From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: multiplicity/compartmentalization
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:00:56 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

To bob, mouse, the censors, and anyone else who is listening--

Hi, I'm also a multiple, and willing to discuss what it means for me/us,
either by email or posted to the net.  We're kind of overwhelmed right
now, so that's all I can say this time.  Let us know if you want to talk.


All Me of Us



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From: sbecker@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Flaming (was Re: Response to Ed)
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:15:50 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I agree with Anika about most of what she says. . .always got to have a
qualifier :)  Seriously, I agree that a sense of reality isd the ultimate goal
for many of us.  However, it's dangerous to assume that all of us are at the
same place in recovery, that we're all ready to lose our illusions.  I, for
instance, do not have my memories back yet, and would any of you say I need to
"face reality" before I'm ready?  To that end, I think it could be damaging to
try and "force" somebody" to do so by openly critiquing them (flaming them) on
ASAR.  Yes, you may feel that it helps their healing process, but by making
that decision for them you are taking the power of their own healing process
away from them.  And this is supposed to be about aiding in the healing process
of others, right?  Not "controlling" it for them.  Anika is clearly in a place
in her recovery where she can try to "face reality" and I applaud and celebrate
that :)  

further, on the subject of flaming, it can scare off those of us "neophytes"
who are struggling with validating ourselves, our opinions and our experiences,
if we are worried that our posts will be flamed merely for running counter to
another's opinion.  Let's assume that while we all share something in common
(abuse), our experiences of that and our ways of dealing with it are different. 
And that difference is okay--more than okay, it's beneficial!  We can all
bebfit from hearing those different perspectives, whether we accept them or
want to act on the (implicit or explicit) advice given or not.

I'd suggest that Ed and Theresa use e-mail to discuss their personal agenda,
rather than expose the rest of us to what is a painful display of anger and
miscommunication.  I am personally uncomfortable when the discussion here turns
to "naming names" and personal attack.  How does that help any of us? 
Addressing issues in a "Face reality" manner may be useful, but personal attack
is NOT.  We all have enough negative, fearful, angry feelings in our lives
without having to voyeuristically experience these flame wars.


So there's my opinion.  Flame away.  I can take it (NOT!).

Sarahge a
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: why guilt
Reply-To: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov
Organization: Unisys/EPA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:31:59 GMT

The poster asks why do they still feel guilty.

This sounds like what I call "carried  guilt" or 
"carried shame."  These are feelings that are 
handed down -- feelings that someone before us
didn't process, but instead acted out/in some way
and in the process enrolled us to carry the feeling
for them.  This is one of the legacies of all sorts of 
abuse.  The abusive/traumatizing behavior is a way
for someone to try to disown their own reality.  When
their behavior directly or indirectly affects a child,
that child will tend to take on the feelings that are
being projected/rejected.

These feelings tend to become pervasive and VERY
persistent.  Anything that reminds me of the original
situation can easily trigger those old feelings.  There
are a lot of them.   I often feel guilty after standing up
for myself.  It seems to me that everyone seems to have
their own unique set of carried feelings and situations that
trigger them.  The pattern is the same, but all the experiences
are very individual -- certain behaviors, certain settings,
tones of voice, time of day, time of year, who is there, what
they look like, certain smells, etc...

My recovery has involved a lot of work of handing shame
and guilt back to my parents in a symbolic way.  I 
continue to work on this stuff.  It is challenging and
at the same time very rewarding work.  This process does
2 things -- it reduces the intensity of the feelings when I
have them come up, and it replaces the old yucky stuff
with new positive stuff that I can call on when those old
ones start to come up.


--
Bob Boyd                 
rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov 
Unisys/EPA
From: anon-1366@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: SASKATCHEWAN
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:34:11 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com



Hello, everyone I would like to know if there is anyone in
Saskatchewan, or CANADA for that matter that uses this
newsgroup.  Please advise.  You can send to

PETE@JEEVES.USASK.CA


TX



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: hello from kk
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:11:15 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <00963388.AB89C4E0@BORN.PHYS.VIRGINIA.EDU>,
kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter) writes:
>Thanks Krikket!!!  and many many thanks to everyone else who has
>responded... it seems I am still having a hard time writing, and
>several times I would've written but it would've come out rather
>weird, either angry, or depressing, or upsetting... I didn't wanna 
>upset anyone just to vent my emotions.

But letting the message fly with the anger, depression, and other upsets not
only helps you to let go of them, it allows others to realize that they aren't
alone.  Your anger and suck can actually lend strength to others!

>Maybe I will write anyway, prefaced by many warnings... (thanks to those
>who have tolerated my "hate/venting/mail" when I've had the energy to
>send it...)

I would highly reccomend it.  The warning will allow people to steel themselves
to what is to come, and still allow you to help yourself!

>sometimes I'm up, sometimes I'm down... sometimes the future's so bright...
>sometimes I feel like there's no place in this world...

This sounds so familiar, it's not funny.  I was either in a happy or suicidal
mood, not much middleground.  Fortunately now when I get a bit depressed, that
light at the end of of the tunnel doens't go out.  I now still feel the hope,
even when I'm down.

>anyway, what I really wanna say right now, is I will be moving soon,
>and it will either be to Tallahasee, or Los Angeles, or Saskatoon!!!
>I mention Sask cuz I just read a post from someone there, so, Hi!
>I go to LA this weekend, y'all wish me luck...

Congradulations!  Hopefully I too will be moving soon.  Just a matter of
getting this raise I'm expecting...

>hmm, I sure wish I'd posted this early enough so that I could've
>asked if anyone out there will be in LA this weekend...
>
>-kk

Ahh well, there is always next time.

(A sidenote to all readers of ASAR in Chicagoland)

And an apology to any netters out there who were looking for me at the @! party
at WindyCon.  I didn't end up making it Friday night, because I was too
occupied handeling other things at the Con, and on Sat. I found myself making a
food run for a bunch of people...  :(  But I'll still be around, and available
to those in the Chicagoland area!

===========
Krikket (a.k.a. Doug Krick)  ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
3 Danada Square East #246    ---          ^^^^^^^^
Wheaton, Il 60187  U.S.A.    ---  (The Net feed is working again!)

May the forces of Evil become confused on the way to your home!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: *if you have no sense of humor or if you're FMS do not read this*
From: anonymus+1401@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (darkangel)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:19:15 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service



Q: How many FMS people does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: None.  They're always in the dark anyway.




(just a thought... :) )
darkangel

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From: anon-1349@twwells.com (P.J.)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: conflict and growth
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:22:53 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

This is in response to Anika's post to Ed and Taylor.


I am responding to Anika's post to Ed and Taylor-

First, I have only been reading the postings for a few months and then
sometimes only sporadically, so I really do not have a feel for the details
of this (apparent) controversy.  Subsequently, this response is not so much
directly to the issues that Anika, Ed, et al., are dealing with, but more
to a few of Anika's introductory comments.

I agree with Anika that it is important to learn how to deal with conflict, and 
anger and other so-called "negative" situations or emotions.  Conflict may be 
unpleasant at times - but how else might we resolve controversy or opposing 
views?  And, as to anger - well - I think many of you will agree that our
socialization, which teaches us to suppress sadness and anger, is an oppressive 
However, to keep it suppressed only adds to the injury.
Some of our healing must come thru expressing anger - to keep it suppressed only 
adds to the injury.

As far as the ongoing debate (?? - is this the right word) - I tend to think 
that debate is a healthy thing.  Ideological challenge fosters cognitive and 
defend ourselves, as Anika suggests) we need to be able to both understand
and argue from both sides of an issue.  

For example, I am a lesbian (this is as good a time to come-out as any, I 
guess).  As a lesbian I am open to attack from others in our society due to
societal homohobia, religious arguemnts etc.  My best defense against such
rhetoric is to become familiar with their arguments.  So, I agree with Anika-
lets make this a constructive process.

Mary




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anonymus+1401@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (darkangel)
Subject: (for anyone who is listening..)
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:15:45 GMT

by day give thanks
by night beware
half the world in sweetness
the other 
in fear
when the darkness takes you with her
hand across your face
don't give in too quickly
find the things she's erased
find the line 
find the shape
through the grain
find the outline and things will tell you their name
the table 
the guitar
the empty glass
all will blend together
once the daylight is past
find the line 
find the shape
through the grain
find the outline and things will tell you their name
now i watch you falling into sleep
watch your fist uncurl against the sheet
watch your lips fall open 
and your eyes dim
in blind
faith
i would shelter you and 
keep you 
in light
but i can only teach you
night vision

                                               ...suzanne vega




darkangel


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1366@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: anon 1315 and 1159
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:59:03 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

I appear to be having trouble receiving forwarding....if you
don't mind, could you reply directly to:

PETE@JEEVES.USASK.CA

Then I should be assured of getting it!!  Tx



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: re: hi you all (or how to feel about mother?)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:47:49 GMT

In article <BxELsx.9Dt@twwells.com> anon-1264@twwells.com (KillDoll) writes:
>Hi Sierra and Free Amazon,
>
>	Mother.  How do you get her to change.  Outside force won't do it,
>however tempting it would be (for me at least) to slap her silly every
>morning.  How about internal forces -- lonelines?  Seperation pain?


Sorry I missed most of this discussion, so my gut reaction (below) may
not apply, but here goes.

The heck with trying to fix others.  If you can live with mom as she is,
fine, else leave her out of your life, tough as that sounds, and take good
care of YOURSELF.

You may even find that you don't miss her.
From: anon-1303@twwells.com (Galileo Pan)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Religion
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:49:38 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Yes, religion has helped. Specifically, it made a big difference in 
my life to find other Pagans, and thus be in a community that 
believes sexuality and sexual desire are fundamentally good. One of
the aspects of my abuse with which I've had the most difficulty is that
my father never changed his mind when he wanted sex, but 
was disparaging whenever I tried to initiate anything. It's common for
sexually abused children to learn that sex is shameful. I also learned
that any sexual desire on my own part was particularly shameful;
that only others were allowed to have sexual desires.

Neo-Pagan and Wiccan religion views sex as a fundamentally good thing
(of course there are prohibitions against harming others), and
the Pagan community tends to be supportive of diversity in sexual
preference and practice -- not just gay or straight, but of
monogamous or polyamorous, romantically committed or not, and so
forth. The accepting nature of this value system has been a big help to me
in dealing with my abuse.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: First post - Hello to all
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:57:21 GMT

anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain) writes:

>Welcome to ASAR!  I read your post and identified with some of the
>things you said.  I, too was molested by an older brother (3 years
>older).  Although I never became a perp myself, there have been times
>where I wished I could do to somebody else the same things my brother
>did to me.  I never did, partly because I never had the chance to do it
>to anybody else.  I still have a fear lurking in the back of my mind
>that should I every get lucky, get married, and have a son, I'm going
>to have this same desire to molest him.

yeah, i have that worry myself.  in fact i don't think it will be possible for
us to avoid *thinking* about molesting our children.  but, the thing we can do
is take control of those impulses and prevent them from becoming actions.  that
is something we can and must do.  i worry that i would be tempted to molest my
children (especially if they were girls) but i do not have any fear that i
would actually carry through with it.  the simple fact that we are aware of our
abuse and understand the terribleness of it gives us a huge advantage in
avoiding it in the future.  yes, i know that i will most likely think about
molesting my children; i can't see how i could not.  but i also know that at
the same time i will be unable to escape thoughts of what a cruel and horrible
thing that would be to do.  i do not realistically expect to be tempted to do
such things to my children, and i suspect the same holds for you too.  if it
turns out that i do end up being tempted to abuse my kids, you can be sure that
i'll get some help pretty damn quick.

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
From: anon-1218@twwells.com (Anika)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Religion
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:49 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes






I think this is a pretty good thread we've got going. So, in defense of
atheistic types, I've found that deciding there wasn't a God worked
wonderfully for me because it empowered me to make my own decisions. Some of
the more stringent religions dictate behavior, even foods we can eat. I find I
have the ability to decide these things for myself, and it's nice not to have 
the ensuing guilt. It's also nice not to feel guilty for being angry at 'God'.
*And* it encourages (forces?) one to take responsibility for one's decisions
since there's no God to intervene.




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