From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: is it necessary to hate?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:21:11 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <910773f.37.724537200@axe.acadiau.ca> 910773f@axe.acadiau.ca (HEATHER LEE FYFFE) writes:
[one mondo deletion]
> What atheists lack, among those who wish to help mankind, is the sense of 
>community and support experienced in Christianity.

 Funny, I have a lot of close friends and family that provide me with
a lot of support. No only that, Alpha Phi Omega, the national coed
service organization I belong to, has given me many precious friendships
while giving me and others the chance to work for the good of the
community. I guess I must be mistaken, though.

>                                                   A religion (or non-
>religion) that teaches complete individualism, separatism, and me-ism can 
>never have the kind of powerful, loving, selfless bondings of friendships 
>which develop in Christianity, powerful friendships which all people need.

 First, of course, individualism != separatism != me-ism, nor are any of
these necessary adjuncts of atheism. (Purely out of curiosity, have you
read the FAQ?)
 I think the fact that I've only this life to live is powerful motivation
to make this world a nicer place to live in. In addition, since I believe
this is the only chance anybody gets, simple human compassion (oh, yes, I
have one of those, I guess there was an oversight at the plant and they
installed one by mistake) says to me that I should help others out- I
would feel bad if I didn't help someone and could have.

>The modern pop psychology is all based on do-it-yourself, be your own boss, 
>how to get ahead of everyone else.  Chart your own path, make it to the 
>top. 

 Even if this were true (and it is, at best, an oversimplification) can you
convincingly link this with atheism? I hardly think the majority of people
are atheists...

>     Can you imagine what the world would be like if everybody did that?  
>Take advantage of them before they take advantage of you.  Complete 
>dissappearance of trust, because you know everyone else is out to get ahead 
>of you.  No cooperation, no unity, no true friendships.  Everyone just out 
>to better themself.

 The last sentence does not follow from the first set. Have you ever heard
of the iterated prisoner's dilemma?

>                    End result?  Need I explain?  Not too pretty, is it.
>Unfortunately, that's where we're heading, and none too slowly, either.
>  Well, there's my dollar's worth for today.  Thanks for reading me!

 I actually think that if all people acted in their own *enlightened* self-
interest this world would be a far better place. It's only when people are
stupid in their self-interest (i.e. greedy) that problems arise.

>Love from 
>the Buzzard

 I just looked this over and I see that there are places where it could
be interpreted as caustic. I don't intend to be mean, but sarcasm is a
reflex with me. Take it with a grain of salt. :->

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                  || The above opinions are probably
                            || not those of the University of
ingles@engin.umich.edu      || Michigan. Yet.