From: zrlh61@hou.amoco.com (Randy L. Hunt)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Assurance of salvation
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:01:02 GMT
Reply-To: zrlh61@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

In article 20992@geneva.rutgers.edu, gideon@farli.otago.ac.nz (Gideon King) writes:
>
>If you read Heb 3:12-19, the believers are there warned in very strong  
>terms about departing from their belief, and there is a warning in the  
>reference to the children of Israel coming out of Egypt - they died in the  
>wilderness without entering into the promised land because of their  
>unbelief. It is obvious that this is applied to our hope of salvation: we  
>must continue to follow after ways of righteousness to be saved.

Well, thank you for trying to clear things up, but I think that you
have a fundamental misunderstanding of the old and new covenants. The
warning above from Hebrews, if read in context, is a warning to those
who had accepted the total forgiveness of Christ to not shrink back
from believing in the totality of their forgiveness. The Jews refused
to enter the promise land that God had prepared for them, because they
didn't believe that God had made the way clear for them to enter it:

"And so we see that they were not able to enter it (the promise land)
because of unbelief". (Heb. 3:19) The promise land is also equated
with the "rest" of God in verse 18.

An example of this unbelief under the new covenant are those who
refuse to enter the "promise land" of a loving relationship with God
because of their unbelief in the FINISHED work of Christ Jesus. As a
consequence, they are never able to enter the "rest" that is spoken of
in Heb. 3:18 & 4:3, because they do not believe that Christ has made a
way for them. They are forever concerned with making themselves
acceptable to a God of CONDITIONAL love, who is not the true God at
all.

Every verse you quote can be explained within the context of the
UNCONDITIONAL love and Grace of God, but can the grace of God,
explained thoroughly in the books of Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews,
be reconciled with the conditional love that you preach? NO WAY. Why
did Christ cry out "It is finished!" at the cross?  Because it WAS
finished.

We are under the NEW covenant, friend, one in which God says:"..their
sins and their lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE." (emphasis mine,
Heb.10:17) This is why the Gospel is called "GOOD NEWS"!! Once we have
been born again, sin can NEVER AGAIN cause our spiritual death. You
failed to address this idea in your response.



>Seing as Heb 10 was quoted by the previous poster, let's have a look a bit  
>later in the chapter, where the issue is explained - verses 26 to 29. "For  
>if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,  
>there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....". So you see that the  
>sacrifice of Christ is only effective for you while you walk in His ways.  
>All these passages from Hebrews are specifically talking to believers in  
>God and Jesus Christ.

Yes, let`s look at Hebrews 10. What is sin? Jesus Christ said that the
sin of the world is UNBELIEF in Him (John 16:9). So, this verse is
saying that if we fail to believe in the finished work of Christ on
the cross (i.e. go on sinning willfully) there no longer remains a
sacrifice for our sins. Why?  Because ONE sacrifice has been offered
on our behalf for ALL time. But what of the person who does not
believe that Christ alone is sufficient, who believes that salvation
is conditional? That person is addressed in Heb.10:29 :

"How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has
TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT the GRACE of God, and has regarded as UNCLEAN the
blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has INSULTED THE
SPIRIT OF GRACE?"

In other words, the one who claims that Jesus Christ's sacrifice was
not enough to purchase our eternal salvation is trampling under foot
the GRACE of God, and is INSULTING the spirt of Grace. Basically, what
you are saying in your reply, Gideon, is that Christ is not
sufficient. This completely negates the significance of the cross.
Why did Jesus come down and die for us in the first place if our
salvation is predicated on whether or not we are performing well
enough? Couldn't we have done that without Him?