From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Computer Science Programs
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:03:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.020350.26435@src.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles C. Lin) writes:
>   On a related note, (mainly to Darrin's post), I wonder whether
>it should be the objective of schools to train for jobs.  This
>has certainly been the attitutde during all the eighties and
>up to current times.   It used to be (in the early seventies
>and late sixties), that some people felt that higher education
>was meant to broaden the mind.   Of course, the typical retort
>is that broadened minds don't put dinner on the table.

The function of higher education has changed significantly over the years.
Universities used to be a place for rich people to go to broaden their
minds, but you could get a job without attending one.

Nowadays, a degree is required for most acceptable jobs.  So, the role of
the university has slightly changed.

Personally, I paid them to educate me in such a way that I could get a job.
CS is such a field that you really have to do a large amount of the education
yourself (which others have pointed out).  I'm still wondering whether CS
should be handled in a university environment just like most other majors.
Some things, particularly in the medical profession, are handled almost
completely separately from regular university functions.  But, that's
a different subject.

>   In any case, it seems that the "better" schools, or the
>ones with the so-called repuation tend to favor a more
>theoretical treatment.  Why do some schools teach Scheme?
>Because some of those folks who are interested in more
>functional languages feel that functional languages are
>the way to go.  Obviously, C is popular (and, ugh, even
>FORTRAN), and it's popularity will keep it popular for
>a long time to go, with everyone fearful of not learning
>it.  On the other hand, I'm not so sure that just because
>a school doesn't teach it doesn't mean that one can't learn
>the language on one's own.

I agree.  The people that I've seen who know Scheme but can't grok
C seem to have most of their trouble centered around data types, pointers,
arrays, etc.  After working with an abstract data type (lists), the real
data types don't make much sense.  Someone else gave the example of the
person who didn't realize that you have to malloc the space for a string.
You don't have to malloc the space for a list.  That is a major hangup
for alot of people, and no amount of theory in Scheme will help you
understand that.

>   Personally, I think that if they didn't teach theory,
>then there would be no new, interesting developments.  Where
>would someone be interested in theory if it was never taught?
>For example, calculus is taught in high school, and yet
>some folks will never use it, even having learned it.  Physics
>and chemistry tend to be required, but many never learn
>anything approaching useful from it, and yet I think there
>is some benefit with having learned it.  Even if the material
>is not remembered, just trying to solve problems and such is
>a skill that might be used elsewhere.

Indeed.  Worse than the people I decribed in the previous paragraph are
those who can't write even elementary algorithms, like sort routines.
There are alot of benefits to knowing _how_ to program in general.
Alot of people don't pick that up, but they know how the Fortran
"print" statement works.

>   I think there should be some aims toward more practicality,
>but that some theory should always be required.

That pretty much sums up my point.  There is a balance that has to be
met to get a student who really knows how to program, and can adapt to
most situations.  Too many schools don't achieve that balance, and alot
of the ones that are really skewed seem to be proud of that fact (that
goes both ways).

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"It's a marvel of vegetable containment..."
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