From: rezabek1037@iscsvax.uni.edu (Will be President for Food)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: NET.RECON (was re Extnt, Def, MEMES, etc.)
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:20:08 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1993Jan20>, lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall) writes:

> Far be it from me to denounce those who wish to recycle that which
> exists into something more useful.  But there is also a place under the
> virtual sun for the creators of cyberspace.  Columbus didn't have to
> manufacture the Atlantic Ocean.

because "cyberspace," as it's called, exists in the form of information, every
word said in, on, or about cyberspace WILL IN TURN CREATE IT, opening up some
probabilities for its evolution and closing off others. that's what i'm talking
about, i'm not talking about trying to go into VR helmet design or designing
new electronic schematics for potential cyberdeck designs. by the time
so-called "hard" cyberspace research GETS anywhere USEFUL to the average joe
user, cyberspace itself will already have changed beyond the scope of said
designer's previous intentions. just plain old words are all that's necessary
(and for me, right now, USEFUL) to build -- OR destroy -- what "cyberspace" is
and can be.

> Your field notes must be organized according to some theoretical model
> of cyberspace, or they'll be almost as useless as cyberspace itself.
> Most travel agents would prefer traveling over reading your diary.

well, any sort of pool of into isn't SUPPOSED to takje the PLACE of
exploration, but is rather meant to AUGMENT it, to make it easier to gnow
what's lurking out there. there ARE localities lurking out there, and ways of
living in this transformation that not everyone who may benefit from them
necessarily knows about. 

> Several memes of advice:

heh! ;)

>     Don't get trapped by your own metaphors.

- corrolary # 1: unless it is intentionally being done to test a formulated
  hypothesis. if mathematicians were never "trapped by their metaphors," then
  mathematics as it is known would not *be.*
 
>     Virtual reality has real culture, not virtual culture.  Try not to
>     dilute the meaning of the word "virtual".  It's almost as bad as
>     talking about "gourmet knives" or "laser surgeons".

say, now, i've put an awful lot more "thought" into this than i think you're
giving me credit for from the start. of COURSE it's a real culture, there'd be
no reason to have anything to do with it from an academic standpoint if it
wasn't it is a VIRTUAL culture. in that people congregate to discuss raw IDEAS
which draw them together... but then, when they meet in the flesh, (the working
hypothesis goes) they find that they share ARTIFACT in common as well; even
artifact and influence which some or others haven't ever encountered, BUT WOULD
PROBABLY GET VAST AMOUNTS OF SATISFACTION FROM DIGESTING. book,s films,
music... now, if you've met as many of your virtual friends in the flesh as i
have, i'm sure you know what i'm talking about here. but it is ALSO
self-evident, and hardly needs to be "formalised" to be experienced or enjoyed.
that's fine and well, but if i'm to make a case for "cyberspace" as being
anything more than one big ol' mutual mental masturbation society, i must
attempt to codify. *sigh.* dry, dry academia. :)

>     You've been infected by several capitalization and punctuation
>     memes that render your own meme output highly unpalatable to the
>     meme input processors of the very people you want to write your
>     field notes for.

touche.' in fact, people from a neck of the woods local to mine who are lurking
here now will agree. i KNOW that. there are REASONS i use them. i've found
that, in time, these capitalisation things (you should see me when i REALLY let
go!) don't get in the way of communication with someone who actually want to
communicate. but, in defferrence to your notice of this schtick of mine, i'll
take even more care in the future, only using my punctuation when i really need
to. i AM *quite* conscious of them, though.
 
> : MEME: fundamental agent of communicative resonance.
 
> That's one of the metaphors you're trapped by.  I submit that you
> needn't be trapped by any metaphor unless you choose to be.  

absosmurfly correct. i choose to employ the memetic metaphor. does that make me
trapped, if i am choosing to stay there to test a hypothesis or two? the
validity of the memetic paradigm cannot be tested unless there is at least one
person who takes it upon themselves to "hang out" there. until i find something
better to do, or a paradigm more useful or applicable to the research i'm
doing, i'll HAVE to hang out there. it's a conditional metaphor of this phase
of my project ANYway. my "higher-up's" would have a FIT if i dumped it now. :)

> Here's
> where the "meme" metaphor breaks down--you're immune system is entirely
> reactionary, and can't just up and decide not to get infected.  If
> there's anything to free will, it means you can refrain from believing
> an idea until you decide you want to, and you can stop believing an idea
> as soon as you decide not to.  The "meme infection" notion is a
> useful oversimplification, but an oversimplification nonetheless.
> I only believe it when it's useful to believe it.  I fear you've been
> infected by it.  :-)

yes indeedy. and as this is the case, i endeavor to look at it more closely.
i'm on a mailing list where we've hashed out this meme/free-will thing 'til we
were all blue in the face, rested awhile, and went at it again. like any
question of importance, the free-will one cannot be answered. consider that any
sort of "memetic selection" would have to operate by means of memetic advantage
-- some memes (ideas) having advantages within local environments over other
memes. on alt.physics, the "quantum gravity" meme has it all OVER the "how to
cook tuna-noodle casserrole" meme, due to the local environment. now, of
course, the "MEME" is a meme too, under its own self-referential definition. if
there is a locaility in which it is at a disadvantage, then it (or its host)
either has to find a different way to codify it/approach it, or it will
die/migrate. maybe i'll give this a shot. i shouldn't have said anything about
it FIRST, though... 

i'm trying to codify and formalise memetics. i feel that i goes further towards
explaining some of the behavior of the Net than anything ELSE "on the market,"
and i have reason to believe that utilising it, even as a "metaphor," will
eventually become crucial to comprehending the Net's role in the world at
large. but some dislike it, for some of the same free-will reasons you point
out. i've reconsiled the will i feel with the meme, but if i HAVE truly done
this, then i shouldn't have to rest my laurels on the meme any more, should i?
we'll see. :)

> Larry Wall
> lwall@netlabs.com

nice to meet you, larry! 
.rez
-     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -     -
"If I cannot bring a smile, a flower, and a cloud into cyberspace, I will not
 enter. I will simply put it down, as I would any other clunky tool."

        - Tim McFadden, Notes on the Structure of Cyberspace
                        and the Ballistic Actors Model.