HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shawn@ut-emx.uucp (Shawn Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Mail order equipment sources
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:20:42 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

In article <Bu9wq8.7Kr@cs.dal.ca> armstrng@cs.dal.ca (Stan Armstrong) writes:
>I am looking for mail order sources of good equipment at better than
>local prices. Specifically, I am now pricing Therm-a-Rest sleeping
>mats.

 Try the following:

 REI
 Sumner, WA  98352-0001
 
 Believe it or not that alone will get it there.  According to the guy I 
 talked to on the phone (we have a local REI outlet here in Austin) the
 reason there's no street address is because the Washington branch store
 has its own zip code.  Must be a pretty big building.  Phew.

 Their phone number is (800) 426-4840. 

 See also:

 Cabela's
 812 13th Avenue
 Sidney, Nebraska  69160

 (800) 237-8888 [customer service]

 Gander Mountain
 PO Box 248
 Wilmot, WI  53192-0248

 (800) 426-3371

 Im sure that for specific item any one of these outfitters will quote you a 
 price over the phone, and let you order too.

>If the net has been through this already, please reply by email.
 
 Actually, I've seen such requests occasionally before, but not to the extent
 that this will fall into the noise category.  Could help someone else out as
 well.

>Thanks.

 Certainly;

 Shawn Boyd

some additions

siera trading post
5025 campstool rd.
cheyenne wy 820007
(307) 775 8000

Campmor 
810 route 17 north 
Po box 997-D
Paramus N.J. 07653-0997
800-526-4784

Scott Campbell

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jjensen@convex.com (James Jensen)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:47:07 GMT
Organization: USENET news support, CONVEX Computer Corp, Richardson, Tx. USA
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
: 
: I expressed my surprise to a backcountry ranger that cattle grazing
: was allowed in a wilderness area.  She gave me the impression
: that this was a somewhat unique situation.  I suspect the grazing rights
: were grandfathered in when the Pecos Wilderness Area was established.

I recommend reading "The Milagro Beanfield War".  Besides being an
excellent book it provides a different perspective on the grazing 
rights issue.  It will make you laugh.  It will make you cry.  It
will make you wonder what hell right the US government had in appropriating
the land in the first place. :-)

I never saw the movie, but I can guarantee that it was missing 90%
of the book.  Its a hefty one.

Jim Jensen - jjensen@convex.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: "Eric Jeschke" <jeschke@wobbegong.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: South Sister, 2nd try...
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:30:41 -0500

In article <1992Sep14.052451.19750@nntp.uoregon.edu> rbear@inferno.uoregon.edu (Richard Bear) writes:
|
|Middle and North Sisters, Jefferson, Hood,
|and, half-hidden in the smoke from forest fires,
|Rainier, wrapped in summer ice. We sit stunned,

Must have been an exceptionally clear day to see Rainier from the rim.
I remember that view, and the price to see it.  What a great place.





-- 
Eric Jeschke                      |          Indiana University
jeschke@cs.indiana.edu            |     Computer Science Department
From: kleinschmidt@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sheep at 12,000 feet
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:45:43 GMT
Organization: NYU Medical Center, New York, NY 10016, USA

Greg Jahn writes (15 Sep 92):

>SHEEP .....
>or as I've heard them appropriately called - RANGE MAGGOTS ...

John Muir, in his book "My first summer in the Sierras", appropriately 
referred to the sheep driven to the High Sierras to graze there as 
"locusts of the high meadows".  See the frontispiece illustration to 
the first edition of this book.

Jochen Kleinschmidt
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert)
Subject: Re: Moving to California
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:49:04 GMT

In article <6680@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> roat@rrc.chevron.com writes:
>In article 18191@eos.arc.nasa.gov, dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:
>>fletcher@remus.rutgers.edu (Sean A Fletcher) writes:
>>
>>>A friend and I are planning a move to California on or about the 18th
>>>of September.
>>
>>Why California? 1 out of 10 people are unemployed (more are under-employed),
>>massive layoffs, 2 billion dollars cut in education, housing prices remain
>>shocking, empty commercial property may be the demise of one of the major
>>banks (we'll see after the elections), and the traffic to get to our
>>mountains is horrendous (once you're there you feel like you're in a foreign
>>country). This is where you want to be?
>>
>
>More Reasons not to:


(many excellent reasons for not living in California deleted) ...



As a native Californian now living out of state for purposes of education,
I am in some ways *glad* of the turn things have taken.  The area I grew up
in resembles L.A. more than the rural farmland and forests of twenty years
ago.  It was hard to get high tech jobs in Northern California outside of
the Bay Area then, and you really had to sacrifice your career or suffer an
extremely long commute if you wanted a good paying job but still wanted to
live in the country.  Now that area has turned into one big suburb.  I
don't think it can ever return to what it was, but I'm happy to see the
growth slow down and I'm happy I got to experience growing up in such a
beautiful place.  You know, people who still want to live there badly
enough will accept job changes or reductions in wages to do so. What's left
in California should be left to them.

I have to add that I probably will not move back there.  First, it's hard
to accept the changes and see all the people running around.  Second, the
financial security of my family is pretty important to me and I want to be
somewhere with more job oppurtunities are available and I have a chance of
buying a house.  Anyway, it's just too darn crowded.  When I visit the
first thing I do is head for the hills (some hills, those Sierras).

Valerie

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Subject: Re: Tents
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:47:20 GMT

gadient@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (JL Gadient) writes:
 
>GREETINGS! The SO and I are in the market for a new tent. I own a
>very old Eureka! Timberline-2. It is a great tent but too small for
>the three of us (Kennebec our retriever[mix]). So, I figure we should
>get a Timberline-4 with 2 doors.
>
>However, the massive selection causes me to wonder if there isn't
>a better choice out there. We really don't want to spend more than
>$200. I am pretty much sold on Eureka tents because of how well
>mine has held up. They are also guaranteed but I am unsure how the
>guarantee works. Can I trade my old beat up one for a new one? :-)
>What about the Alpine Meadows or the Aurora?

I dunno.  I own an older 2 person and newer 4 person (which we got
when our kid was born).  They are nice inexpensive tents, generally
fairly dry if you use a groundcloth *well placed*, but each tent has
experienced failure of the bottom horizontal zipper.  We replaced the
first one ourselves, and chalked it up to being a fluke.  The 4
person tent has been slept in less than 50 nights, only once on a
beach, and generally well cared for, so I am disappointed at the
zipper failure that seems to be a pattern.  I suspect it will cost
more than the tent is worth to have it replaced.

I guess I should complain to Timberline.  Anyone know where they 
are located?

chris

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tomg@hpcvusc (Thomas J. Gilg)
Subject: Re: Salmon vs steelhead, was Re: Floating through a forest fire
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:47:40 GMT

> ... ask fishermen to release any salmon or steelhead trout ...

As mentioned by the last poster, Steelhead have been reclassified
as a salmon.    Some trivia however on interpreting the phrase
"steelhead trout":

Steelhead regulations apply to the adult form of the fish, but often
the out-going juvenile steelhead (smolt) are treated as trout.   When
returning from Montana & Idaho this past July, Fish & Game told me they
try to protect the bulk of the smolt migration back to the ocean, but
that after a certain date, they allow/encourage fisherman to harvest the
remaining ~6-12" smolts as though they were trout.

BTW - The Sea-run Cutthroat fishing in Oregon is picking up.

Thomas Gilg
tomg@cv.hp.com
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: water treatment -- some first hand info
Keywords: water filter Flagyl
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:04:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep9.080458.18135
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep4.181339.12107@gtephx.UUCP> meredithd@gtephx.UUCP (Douglas Meredith) writes:
>About a week ago I began 
>to feel...uncomfortable in my abdomen shall we say?  Went to the doc and the 
>verdict is "probable giardia".
> -- It was the doctor's opinion that testing for it wasn't worth the effort.

This is usually correct, iff there is some reason to suspect the disease
in the person presenting symptoms, precisely because of the preponderance
of false negatives in Ova and Parasite screens.  A recent trip to the
wilderness with symptoms would probably be reason enough to try Flagyl.

>He prescribed Flagyl which is a 
>broad-spectrum antibiotic for abdominal critters, reasoning that if it wasn't
>actually giardia this would kill whatever it was.

Actually, metronidazole (Flagyl) is rather specific for protozoa (giardia and
entamoeba in the gut, trichomonas species in the genital tract), although the
dose of Flagyl to treat amoebiasis is higher than the dose for giardiasis.
It also is effective against many anaerobic bacteria, something which wouldn't
really be relevant here.

> -- I haven't noticed any side-effects of the Flagyl (other than that I'm not 
>    supposed to drink any beer while on it, aarrgh!).  Where did these myths
>    come from?

Metronidazole is claimed to have an "Antabuse-like" effect if you drink
alcohol; namely, drinking can cause severe flushing, nausea and possibly
a sudden drop in blood pressure.  I am not entirely sure how prevalent
this side effect is, because once the initial reports of this side effect
were made some 20-30 years ago, the prohibition against alcohol became
part of the standard warning.  The drug frequently causes a "metallic
taste", and not infrequently a diffuse malaise, and occasionally transient
numbness or tingling in the extremities, but all in all it's well tolerated.
There is some concern that high, prolonged doses of the drug might be
neurotoxic, and the drug is carcinogenic in chronic studies in a few
animals.  There is no evidence that the drug is carcinogenic in humans.

>If this is truly giardia, it's not that bad.  Just mild cramping with
>occasional more urgent... uh... calls of nature.

Giardiasis is not frequently a violent, debilitating infection.  A lot depends
on _where_ it's happening (the outback is muy inconvenient), your own
state of health and exposure to these critters, and the particular
strain of protozoan.  St. Petersburg, Russia has giardia in its water
supply.  Visitors get ill, but natives don't even notice.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bulls@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richie J. Anderson)
Subject: Philmont
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:46:04 GMT


	I was just wondering if anyone who are subscribed to this
have heard of Philmont.  Cause I just got back from working there
on seasonal employment and was checking if anyone has worked there
last year or in years past and also if you were a participant out 
at Philmont in years past.  Plus if you wanted to apply out there 
E-mail me I can get you that information but do it before the first
of the year.
                    Rich in Nebraska
 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:00:46 GMT

In article <1685BBBBE.MARGARET@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> MARGARET@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Margaret Krebs) writes:
>My husband and I are planning a week-long trip in Yosemite.  We'd like to do a
>45-50 mile loop or two shorter loops.  We are assuming there won't be crowds
>this time of year.  Normally we seek out places where we won't have many
>neighbors, if any...

There are some very nice trails in the Northwest section of the park that
are good for early summer and fall hiking.  As with anywhere else in the
park there is still a chance of erratic weather (i.e. snow, thunderstorms,
cold, etc), but you won't be affected as much in these lower elevation
areas.  This will also minimize the chances of you getting altitude sick. 
There are spectacular views even in these lower elevation areas. 
A good book that describes these type of trails is Jeffrey Shaefer's
Yosemite which you can buy mail order from the bookstore in the park.
Also, you can call the ranger station to find out trail suggestions and
possible road conditions.


As for getting away from people, you are going after the start of school
and since it is a week trip you'll be hiking a great deal of time during
the weekday.  A 45-50 mile hike will put you out of range of the weekenders
fairly quickly.  Also, unlike many places in the East, there aren't a lot
of trailheads that you can drive up to for getting to a particular
destination. Usually many trails are serviced by one trailhead.  It can be
crowded to start out, but after a ways you may not run into anyone.

One further suggestion - if you are concerned about foul weather you might
consider hiking in and out on the same trail.  That way if it strikes
you'll have a good feel for the type of terrain and time involved in
getting back to the trailhead.  Just more information to help you plan you
response.  

Good luck,
Valerie


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan)
Subject: Re: Outback Oven - A Review
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:36:02 GMT

I was on a trip over last weekend, and one of the people on the trip
had one of these, too. She did not have the pan that comes with the set,
though.

She made a pizza, complete with a yeast dough. I turned out great. The
only problem was that the pot she used was deep and tall, so the dough
really bunched up. The dough did however cook all the way through. I 
would say that if you get one, you should also get the pan made for it.

I would have to say that if baking in the backcountry is what you want
to do, the Outback Oven is a good way to do it.
-- 
-Tim-

sheehan@ncar.ucar.edu
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Desolation Wilderness Questions
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:20:41 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <heycke-100992104340@ksl-mac-66.stanford.edu> heycke@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Torsten Heycke) writes:
>I used to run virtually every day within the wilderness boundaries, and I
>never saw a ranger. This doesn't mean you shouldn't get a permit. One of
>the ways they determine how much money a Wilderness area gets is by use, so
>a permit is a moral thing to do. 

But does more money mean more rangers and more trails?  Maybe not
getting a permit is the moral thing to do.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
South Central LA - solidly Democratic - a few million.
Florida          - close race         - $7 billion.
Too many Quayludes.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:14:41 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>>bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
>>
>>... I wouldn't worry about altitude sickness.  Unless you climb
>>the peaks, you will probably be below 11,000' all of the time.
>>You will feel the elevation the first day, but after that it should
>>not be a problem.

>geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt) writes:
>
>Careful here.  The dominant factor here is the altitude at which you
>sleep.  Coming in from sea level (I assumed the author of the message
>was in New Haven from the address), you're pretty safe if you're
>sleeping below 8000 feet, but in the Yosemite high country you can
>easily spend a significant amount of time above that.  I would
>recommend against flying in and going directly to some of the
>beautiful spots easily availble the first day from the paved road over
>Tioga Pass.

I would agree this whole hardly and add the following.  Remember although
you are below 9000 feet for sleeping for the most part you are "working
hard" the rest of the time.  This is the period in which your body needs
the O's.  Spending an extra few days "getting" your bearing and acclimating
(both methally and physically) to the area will go along was during the rest
of your vacation.

Even though I live at 5000 feet I once got altitude sickness at 9000
feet due to a cold (with bronchitis) when I can normally "run" up to
12,000 feet without any problems.  Imagine my surprise when I figured
this out.  Even more to my surprise was when I woke up the next
morning feeling great.  Time was all I needed.

Your on vacation, relax, take your time, then hike, hike, hike and hike.


Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah



"I always wanted to climb those peaks ...
	 just didn't think I would do them all in one day."

	My climbing partner after hiking/climbing in the Wasatch.
Lines: 11
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 09:32:02 MDT
From: rosej@wyoming.et.byu.edu (James Rose 225-5106 378-4881)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet. 


	I am sorry to say that this is the case in Utah and Washington as well.  Cattle and sheep still graze on the most accessible parts of the Uinta wilderness in the northeastern corner of Utah. Sheep also graze in the lower part of the Lone Peak Wilderness southeast of Salt Lake City.  Two weeks ago while on a backpacking trip to the Paysayten Wilderness in Washington (east of North Cascade National Park) I was again saddened to see sheep grazing on some formerly pristine alpine slopes.  

	It is particularly disturbing to me to read the "Enjoy and Preserve our fantastic wilderness area" signs when the most destructive visitors to the backcountry continue to graze "as they have for years".  It seems quite ironic that while signs encourage us to stay on the trails and respect the fragile streams and lakes, the powers that be allow thousands of animals to overrun the area.  Does anyone out there know how we can fight this?







Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mit@b30news.ingr.com (Timothy A. Turner)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.205343.26094@midway.uchicago.edu>, bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher) writes:
|> I just got back from a rather pleasant few days packing around the
|> Sangre de Cristo Mountains of NE New Mexico. However, I did run into
|> two things that left me wondering ...
|> 
|> (1) Before entering the National Forest/Wilderness Area, I read all the
|> usual signs about "leave no trace", use a stove, don't start a campfire
|> unless *absolutely* necessary, never ... *NEVER* camp within 100' of a
|> stream or 300' of a mountain lake. In general, the usual stuff relevant to
|> preserving the area for "future generations".
|> 
|> Imagine my surprise, therefore, to arrive at a small forested glen at
|> tree line and discover a rather large herd of cattle dropping bucket loads
|> of what cattle make best into the "fragile" stream. In fact, the whole area
|> smelled like a pasture and there were large land mines scattered all about ...
|> right up to and into the stream ... which was the only source of water form
|> miles around.
|> 
|> After a pleasant, --   but slightly stinky, night at the site I moved on.
|> And ... to my surprise, what should I find eating the "delicate alpine tundra"
|> that I shouldn't even *think* about walking on ... but more cows. Yes, another
|> herd of cattle, this one clustered on the "delicate tundra" and pooping into
|> the "delicate high alpine lake".
|> 
|> Have others run into this little problem where we humans are asked to
|> leave no trace, yet the agency that makes this request leases the land
|> for pasture ... with I suspect disasterous consequences that it would take
|> a small village of humans to duplicate?
|> 

I'm saving this one for the ages!!! Imagine, there might be herds of wildlife
at the source of rivers all across this great country. We must get rid of
them all. They can not be allowed to pollute the unspoiled regions of this
world. Curse the waste polluting animals. Only animals that have been potty
trained are acceptable. We must fight to win this war!!!
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Revenge of the Nerds; was Floating through a forest fire
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:36:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <23304@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker) writes:
>In article <Sep14.153540.68180@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>>
>>Closer to a char, actually.  Eastern brook trout also are actually a char
>
>What compression algorithm do you use to make both of those a char?

Indirection, not compression.  With eight bits we can index a table
having up to 256 fish entries.  Each entry can further reference
sub-species tables.   (These fish are actually char*, not char.)

Gosh I love this nerd humor.
HAH! HAH! HAH! HAH!

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:10:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <79810@ut-emx.uucp> shawn@ut-emx.uucp (Shawn Boyd) writes:
>
> We do hunt with deadly weapons, and every serious hunter shoots to kill.  
>
What?  You mean hunters don't practice C&R?

> Most hunters are intensely interested in trying to perpetuate our natural 
> heritage and outdoor environment.  We are on the same side you are, although 
> I ocassionally have a moderately difficult discussion with one of my fellow 
> Sierra Club members

You mean like the moderately difficult discussions they have in 
talk.politics.guns when some is naive enough to ask what you
hunt with automatic weapons?

> I end up with the
> idea that when both sides disagree, they tend to do so on an emotional basis,
> with very little attention paid to the facts involved.
 
See above.

> Armed confrontation is a very bad idea.  I'm sure 
> you meant the above as a joke.  As a joke it is moderately funny.  :-)
 
That was my point.  BTW, there's a rhetorical question up there so take
this article a grain of salt.  I know that most hunters have a sense of 
humor, but just in case.

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry