From: pandit@ssd.intel.com (Milind Pandit)
Subject: Re: Rational Debate, Axioms, and Arguments
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:36:30 GMT

In article <106446@bu.edu> ccmlh@buitc.bu.edu (Mark Hayes) writes:
>But then, without taking so much as a self-identical breath,
>Mr. G continues
>
>	consciousness is identification
>
>to which I can only respond, yow, where did *THAT* come from???
>One minute we're talking about logical attributes of objects in
>general, and all of a sudden "consciousness" - a fantastically
>complex and poorly understood psychological phenomenon - appears
>on the scene, and is somehow - you will pardon the expression -
>identified with an acceptance of the identify law (if I understand
>correctly what this is supposed to mean).

Yes, the writing could be interpreted to mean that "consciousness is
identification" *follows* from "A is A".  I do not believe this, nor
do I believe that the intent of the writing was to suggest this.  I
believe Galt is defining consciousness as the process which grasps
identity.  Notice that I have not said "determines identity," because
that can connote that consciousness has some effect on reality.  In
other words, he is completing a set of very basic axioms, of which "A
is A" is only the first.  Consciousness and rational thought based on
information provided by the senses are the only tools human beings
have to identify things that exist and to know things that are real.
However, men have the ability "turn off" their rational thinking
processes.

Axiom:  Identity
Axiom:  Existence exists.  Existence provides objects with identity.
Axiom:  Consciousness and rational thought based on information
        provided by the senses are the only tools human beings have to
        know reality.
Axiom:  To survive, men must act.  (Obtain food/clothing/shelter).
Axiom:  Knowledge of reality is required for effective action.
Axiom:  Survival is good, death is evil.
Conclusion:  To survive, men must think rationally.
Conclusion:  Men can think rationally without surviving.  Men cannot
             survive without thinking rationally.
Conclusion:  To think irrationally allows the possibility of
             death.
Conclusion:  To think rationally is good.  To think irrationally is evil.

OR

Axiom:  Knowledge => Rational thought
Axiom:  Effective action => Knowledge
Axiom:  Survival => Effective action
Axiom:  Survival => Good
Axiom:  ~Survival => Evil
Conclusion:  Survival => Rational thought
Conclusion:  ~Rational thought => ~Survival
Conclusion:  ~Rational thought => Evil

>Anyway, more and more I'm struck by the cult-like quality of
>the Church of Rand. It actually bears a striking resemblance,
>in several ways, to the so-called Church of Christ, Scientist,
>commonly known as Christian Science. Both worship a fairly
>small set of writings by a female demigod, insist on a
>rather privileged status for these works, and respond to all
>criticism with quotation. Present an objection to the
>ludicrous claims of Christian Science to a Christian Scientist,
>and you'll be told "oh, but read Science and Health, then
>you'll see". A nice trick that is, too, since I'm not likely
>to read Science and Health if no-one gives me any reason
>to think it's not garbage, thereby leaving them smug in the
>knowledge that my objections aren't worth a diver's fart
>since I haven't taken the Golden Shower of Wisdom by
>reading their sacred text.

Where did this come from?  You were talking about John Galt's speech.
I laughed when you used the term "Randroid," but this is all baseless,
inflammatory rhetoric.  I personally am trying to present valid and
objective arguments in support of what I believe, and am willing to
stop believing IF some one can refute them.  If you are going to
condemn me and a whole bunch of other people on the basis of
accusations picked out of thin air, I'll assume you are totally
unreasonable, and direct my replies elsewhere.
-- 
Milind S. Pandit			| pandit@ssd.intel.com
Operating Systems Engineer		|
Intel Supercomputer Systems Division	| Standard Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.objectivism