From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Dentistry)
Subject: Re: A nation chosen by GOD -- New-Israel
Summary: Fact?? Oh Ye of Little Faith. 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: No argument, you win. 
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:54:00 GMT

In article <C03D79.682@ecf.toronto.edu>, 
vanweer@ecf.toronto.edu (VANWEERDENBURG NICHOLAS JOHN) writes...

>I won't repeat the original post here- suffice to say the poster stated that
>his god was necessary to save the United States from its path to destruction.

A better summary would have been, " give up on the US, it's a corpse."

>And that basically this god supported the US in the past when it was more
>religious.  Basically drivel...

And my opinion is that GOD doesn't care about non-entities, such as 
governments, education, churches, fads, and the like... only individual
people, each directly and individually. 

>Lets see.  The United States and God.  Did your god support slavery and then
>change his mind ( and very slowly, from the Civil War up to Martin Luther King
>and Malcom X, over almost 100 years! )?

Slavery is another non-entity. Why would GOD care?

>Does your god support Vietnam, Cambodia, El Salvador?

more n-e's

>Does your god support 6% of the world population using 30%+ of the resources,

still more

>basically destroying the planet he supposedly created and gave them?

even the planet is a non-entity, in my opinion. Though I find the
Gaia belief interesting.

>And how is it that you know the solution to all our problems with no facts, no

I believe, I don't know. Just like everyone else. I chose to believe, it
was easy. I don't lie to myself either and assert belief is fact.

>reasoning, and no evidence?  Sounds like dementia to me.  Dementia with severe

Nor would I assert that my understanding is right. It's just my belief.
I could be crazy, just like anybody else.

>arrogance in your own psychic powers to divine the universe, when so many 
>have completely different 'psychic' understandings than you ( ie. other 
>religions ).

My webster's sez "psychic" is nonphysical, of or pertaining to the mind
or spirit. My faith is that GOD is also =personal=, and has had several 
physical manifestations as well, such as "the burning bush," and The 
Messiah's presence in the body of Jesus Christ. Which is all interesting
mentally... but where my focus lies is in loving GOD, who I believe 
gives us freedom to do as we please, but still takes care of us -- kinda
cleans up after us and makes things work out when we goof it up.

Of course, if I worshipped LIFE, or TRUTH, or LOVE, or FREEDOM, or....
I probably would be miserable most of the time worrying about how to
hang on to, or seek out such things.

All that's a mouthful though. An easier way to say what I believe and
perhaps more spiritual is that I think GOD made creation... something
like nintendo. Turn it on and 7 seconds later, voila, the little guys
run around limited by the program rules, like we're limited by the
natural laws. And yet some spirit is there to guide the blocks, or
mario, or whatever. The only kink I'll throw in is that I think we're
in a beta version of the cosmic program, (or a prototype), which is still
being debugged. 

GOD promised me (and thee) when walking the earth a couple of thousand
years ago in the body of Christ that he'd save those of us who wanted 
to be saved, to be "resurrected" in version 1.0 of the cosmic program. 

I've asked GOD to save me in Christ's name, which was the deal, and
since then I've grown to believe that whatever GOD does with me, 
(resurrected, destroyed, put on ice, in limbo, returned to the
cosmic all, or whatever) that's fine with me. I'm happy now, because
I believe GOD loves me, (and Thou), intimately and passionately
and more wisely and fully than I could ever conceive with my several 
pounds of brain. Which in not too many years is going to turn to 
meat and rot, which is not far from now. :)

And I don't care that others worship GOD differently, or know
differently, or understand..., or encounter... If they have something
like the relationship I have with GOD through the Messiah, then
mebe they know the grace, joy, love, and encouragement that I've 
known. 

You know, the most amazing thing to me Nick, is why GOD would take on 
a body to experience life and death as we know it, and then keep that
body (and mind and personality, a free gift offered by a lowly man such
as I). 

You realize of course, I'm not talking about fact, but only what
I hope and believe.

GOD be with Thee, if Ye will, and not if not,

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen    "... free choice is a trip too."
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc