From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:12:48 GMT

In article <122412@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.015514.13979@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>->In article <121970@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>->>In article <92098.085800U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>->>->In article <121835@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov says:
>->>->>
>->>->>In article <92095.184430U49146@uicvm.uic.edu> U49146@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>->>->>->In article <56838@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com says:
>->>Yes.  And they also say that even if you qualify to get in, they are many 
>->>qualified candidates.   They can only take a few.  I was in a summer program
>->>sponsor by university for high school students and they suggest that if
>->>yoiu really want to get into a competitive program you should not take
>->>TOEFL.
>->
>->I hope you're not the one poking fun at Yumei's English, or I would have to
>->pick this paragraph apart for you...  <No smiley if you were the one who
>->made fun of her; insert smiley if you were not.>
>
>Next time take unrelated questions somewhere else, or at least spend some
>time to find the right person.

Take unrelated questions somewhere else?  How else would we get new threads?
(Other than going to your favorite fabric store, of course.)

>->Doesn't it make sense not to take the TOEFL if you want to get into a very
>->competitive program?  I would compare taking the TOEFL to playing basketball
>->in a league for people 5'6" and under.  If you want to be compared to that
>->limited population, fine.  If you strive to be the best, you must compete
>->with the best.
>
>Well, most of AA's I've know have average SAT scores of less than 400 yet
>they have average GPA's of over 3.7 in a very competitive technical program.
>So SAT English score is not very indicative of your chance of success in 
>college.

Is your GPA what you consider "success in college"?  If so, success in
college probably does not translate to success in life.  (whatever your
criteria for success in life is)  Being successful in a college program
despite lack of English skills is more an indication of the lack of
emphasis on communication skills in the curriculum than an indication of
the success of the individual.

>->
>->>->And yeah I know of people who took the SAT in less than 7 months
>->>->since they were in this country and others who took it before even setting a fo
>->>->ot here.  Now how long you stayed here before you took the SAT, and whether or
>->>->not it was fair is a relative question.  Since English is an international lang
>->>->uage, I assume you had some kind of exposure to it in your school in Asia.
>->>
>->>Yeah, since English is such a popular language, we can very safely assume that
>->>everyone got some exposure to it before high schol.  Give me a break, in
>->>some Asian countries students don't learn anything beyond the 26 letter.
>->>Why do they need to learn English if they stay in their countries?
>->
>->That is true.  But don't use that as an excuse for not learning English if
>->you wish to attend school in an English-speaking country.
>
>Just because you don't score say 500 on SAT English does not mean you can't
>be successful in college.  It doesn't mean you can't be a good engineer
>either.

Of course not.  Just as you can be a good engineer despite lacking
communication skills.  But gaining those skills can make you an even better
one.  (Whether the SAT is an indicator of English/commuication skills is
doubtful, but that's another thread.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american