HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, ehudlick@BBN.COM (Eva Hudlicka) writes:
> hi,
> we're planning a short (4-5 days) backpacking trip to the Mono Pass 
> area in August - 
> i'd appreciate any info on the following:
> 	Bears - i thought the north/east sierras didn't have much of 
> 		a bear problem but a ranger informed me over the phone
> 		that they have them even above the tree line - ???
> 		so where do you "hang" your food? 

The rangers love to say this kind of stuff.  Bears DO wander above treeline,
usually attracted by heavy accumulations of people and associated food.  If you
camp above treeline, your chances are pretty good just leaving your food hidden
from view in your campsite.  You can try to shift the odds more in your favor
by finding a suitable rock face that you can get to the top of, then hang the
food from a projection or crack (use ingenuity here).  But I wouldn't be too
concerned.

> 	Mono pass - how long does it take to get to a good camp site
> 		beyond the pass from the trail head on the eastern side
> 		(rock creek?)

Depends on what you consider good.  Easy answer = 2 miles past pass, where
there is a widening to the canyon and a nice meadow/creek, plus enough gnarled
trees to fake a food hang.

> 	Crowds: - how crowded is the trail to mono pass in general - 
> 		How crowded is the area just on the other side of the pass?
> 		is it anything like kearsarge lakes? dusy basin?

Trail is well-used, but not a freeway.  Other side of pass is not Disneyland by
any means, but any place that close to a trailhead has at least moderate usage.
When I was there in the summer I encountered a pack train and oh, maybe 10
hikers.

> 	Dayhikes from the basin on the other side of the pass -
> 		how are the recesses? how far is it to Pioneer basin?
> 		can you go cross-country to pioneer basin? how long does it
> 		take?

Recesses are nice, 2nd seems to be the favorite.  Lots of people, fewer as you
head up to the upper lake.  This is a really beautiful region.  If you are
adventurous and don't mind a bit of scrambling, head up to Gabbot Pass.  This
would probably take most of a day round-trip.
Pioneer basin is trivial to get to, it is a popular destination, again fewer
people as you head farther up.  There is a trail all the way, it branches off
from the main one and is hard to miss.  Maybe 1-1.5 hour to get all the way to
the head of the basin from camp.
	
> 	getting there & back:

> 		how long does it take to get to the trailhead from san
> 		francisco? how bad is the traffic on sundays (we have
> 		to catch a red-eye back to boston sunday night)

I would bet 5.5 to 6 hours of driving to get there, probably the same on the
way back because it won't be a holiday weekend, right?

> thanks!

You're welcome.

> eva

-Jeremy Sommer
From: rgasser@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Tent Camping in Smokies, THANKS!
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:44:53 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services


Dear Netters,

Thanks for all your information,advice, and comments about
tent camping in the Great Smoky National park!  I appreciate
everyones input and from the number of responses I can see
that visiting the NC side of the park is recommended.

I thought I'd post a phone number that I received for nationwide
camping reservations (pre-paid reservations at all National Parks
by way of credit card).  That number is:

(800) 365-CAMP

I reserved one night (next Monday night) at the Elkmount Riverside
Campground. Our plans are to stay there Monday night and get all the
necessary info. from the Ranger station and visitor center on 
backcountry camping (off trails) on the NC side of the park on Tuesday
and Wednesday nights, and then who knows where for Thursday as we
plan to head back home thursday or friday.

Thanks again,
Sincerely,
Rob Gasser

(Anyone with anything else to add, would still be appreciated)





 
----------------------------------------------------------------
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The University of Toledo, Blue & Gold Computer Sales
Work: (419) 537-3681     Fax: (419) 537-2943
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From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Alternatives to carrying a pack?
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:48:54 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

>> In article <22666@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, root@lyra.scg.hac.com (Dave Fisher)
>> writes: 
>> 
>> > A good friend of mine is unable to carry a backpack, because of medical
>> > considerations.  Hiking is no problem, however.  Does anyone know of
>> > any alternatives (other than pack animals)?  For instance, does anyone
>> > make a pack which can be pushed? 

I am toying with the idea of running a pack-trip operation in which
we would use grad students as pack animals.

Humans are much lighter on the trail than mules, student types would
love to spend months in the wilderness at minimum wage, grad students
would be accustomed to endless, humiliating labour. 

Yuppie backpackers would like the idea of helping out students as well
as enjoying low-impact (and low-effort) wilderness wandering.

I think this could be the backcountry fad of the next decade!

Paul

p.s. In case it is not obvious, I am not entirely serious here.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ray@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray)
Subject: Water sterilization w/ iodine
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:26:15 GMT

  I'm sure I have the info somewhere, but I can't seem to find it...
I recently acquired more iodine crystals that I know what to do with
and I thought I'd throw some in a bottle, and try the x drops of 
iodine-water per quart method, rather than buying new tablets for
an upcoming trip.  Would someone please fill me in on what that
x should be?

thanks,

Will Ray
ray@cis.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite (how about Peak I)
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:30:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: scott.1992Aug20.213029.26667
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866

Is this new Peak 1 primed like MSR or does it not need to be primed?
(refering to the Peak 1 that doesn't have a built-in resevoir)


-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
From: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:03:11 GMT
Reply-To: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Aug21.003208.23483@sequent.com>, karlm@sequent.com (Karl
Maerz) writes:
> [Suggests those who don't like horses should use trails where horses aren't
> permitted...]
> And when not, try to be a little more tolerant.

I'm curious, do you find that hikers are intolerant or rude toward you when
you are travelling on horse?  Although I don't enjoy being passed by horses,
I'm not discourteous to the riders.  The posters to this group who have
complained about horses certainly don't speak for all of the readers.

Do you feel that the amount of wilderness where horses are allowed is too
small, about right, or so large that it could be reduced without impacting
you?  Are you concerned that it will be reduced?

> [I wrote...]
> |I think Wayne's argument was not about aesthetics but was that horses make
> |the wilderness smaller...
>
> I must disagree.  This is indeed an aesthetic argument.

I can't speak for Wayne, but my dislike of horses is not based on impact
but solely on aesthetics, as you point out.  And aesthetics are my main
reason for going to the backcountry.  But I agree with the poster who said
cows are a much bigger problem than horses.

> What difference does it make if I can travel faster?

Would you make the same number of trips each year and of the same length
if you couldn't bring a horse?

> Do you also have issue with those who are hardier and can make better
> time on foot than the average hiker?

Yes, these types bother me to no end :^)  And it's even worse if they
happily stroll down the path with an 80 lb pack while strumming away at
a guitar.

--
Don Dovey                                                    dovey@llnl.gov
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:20:58 GMT
Subject: Re: tents
Organization: the HP Response Center, Atlanta
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Sierra Sphinx, about $175 at REI on sale, 5-6 pounds, easy to set up,
no vestibule that I know of, good tent had mine for two years now.
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose, Elk and other assorted beast.
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 1911@colorado.edu, sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod) writes:
>
>And of course American "Antelope" aren't really antelope either.
>
>Confused?
>
>Scott

I am not certain about whether or not the pronghorn (American antelope) is
or is not a true antelope.  I have always thought that the biggest difference
between deer and antelope was that deer (and elk and moose) have ANTLERS (which
are shed and re-grown every year and are exclusively male) 
and antelope have HORNS (which are permanent and may or may not be on the females).

---
1. Bill Gascoyne
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu (R. J. Auletta)
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:13:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.180958.29887@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> karl@thuja.gsfc.nasa.gov (Karl A. Anderson) writes:
>Heck, no.  When I'm in the bc, I love to start the day with a steaming cup of
>instant coffee and instant hot chocolate, mixed.  Really cuts through the fog!

How about a steaming cup of tea with a spoonful of cherry drink mix thrown
in? Sort of a "hot jello" drink with a kick?

-R J Auletta
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:27:08 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.



Well, my wife and I had a great time in Colo. backcountry.  We stayed mostly in the forests, Pike
Roosevelt, etc and now I know why.  We went to RMNP and they did not allow dogs in the backcountry!!!

I think that sucks!  They probably have some (what they consider) good reason for this, but 
they allow horses?  My dog is part of the family, just like someone else's children (more well
 behaved than some we saw on the trails also).  My wife was so mad that she said she wouldn't 
visit another NP.  Fine with me, the forests are mush better, IMHO.  So now I know why we never
have gone to a NP in the backcountry before (and probably won't again).  

We did hike Wild Basin in RMNP and saw many "wild" animals. In fact the squirrels were so tame
that we had one follow us over a mile, until someone else gave it a M&M.  That (at least I hope
not) would never happen in the forests, the squirrels we saw didn't want anything to do with people,
just the way it should be.  Look, but don't touch. (or feed in this case).  

Maybe I'm naive about this, if so flame away.  
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Point to Ponder (Wolves in Yellowst
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:13:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1449600016@igc.org> dyurman@igc.org (Dan Yurman) writes:
>
>The Idaho Falls Post Register reports this week that the introduction
>of wolves to Yellowstone will likely lead to predation of the winter
>elk herds around Jackson, WY.  Press reports up here seem to 
>indicate that sooner or later wolves will return to Yellowstone
>and surrounding areas as a result of government action.

Moose were re-introduced to Colorado not too long ago.  They seem to
be doing well.  I saw my first Colorado moose last weekend.  I was
(as usual) the last to leave the parking lot (in the Colorado State
Forest off Cameron Pass.)  A huge, lanky, ungainly bull went running
along the two track road in my headlights, not ten feet from me.
What a humongous creature!  It was the size of two cows on stilts. 
Its size was equalled only by its clumsiness.

Recent postings have pointed out to me that it is childish and
self-righteous to pay homage to the moose without giving equal
recognition to creatures such as the cow.  So in the interests of
fairness, here goes.  (If you already value cattle you needn't
read further.)

Cattle are, more useful to society, and generally better behaved
than moose.  It is selfish to want to see moose, when cattle provide
us with so much beef.  My (relativist) therapist says I should recognize
other's points of view as legitimate.  My (relativist) therapist says
I'm going to be *ALL RIGHT*.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence Leong)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:25:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Confusing names (was Re: Mammoth area hot springs?)
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, dsc@gemini.tmc.edu (Doug S. Caprette Bldg. 28 W191 x3892) writes:

|In article <1992Aug17.151911.29380@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug16.182652.3453@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Rich Washington) writes:
|>>
|>
|>
|>I don't mean to flame Rich for this case; after all, he did try, by
|>restricting distribution to California (or at least trying), where the term
|>"Mammoth" is less ambiguous.  However, the current Usenet software seems to
|>be ignoring distribution limits; we in New Mexico, which assuredly is not part
|>of California :-), seem to get all sorts of postings that we shouldn't get if
|>the distribution system works properly.  The right solution is clearly to get
|
|For that matter, it even made it out to Maryland, USA.

and Singapore, halfway round the world, too.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: revillot@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Judy Tolliver)
Subject: Re: 10 rules to being a totally obnoxious camper
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Dept. of MSE at Illinois-Urbana
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.193335.8193@pbhyg.PacBell.COM>,
smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (... .. ...) wrote:
> 
> In article <13981@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug10.182654.25170@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
> >|>> Therm-a-rest sleeping pads, a solar shower, and the ever important
> >|>camping
> >|>> espresso maker.
> >|>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >|>
> >|>does anyone know where i can get one of these???
> >|>

Try drinking tea instead.  The used teabag doubles as a sponge for washing
dishes afterwards.  Really.  ;-)
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Handicapped access
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:31:25 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <22947@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker) writes:
> That "access for the physically disabled" stuff is bogus.

	I spent 18 months or so on crutches once.  There were places I
couldn't go.  The extent of a person's disablities can't be infered from
their means of locomotion; one person on crutches may move as well as you
or I and another may exhaust herself getting from the car to the office.
I applaud the idea of making natural areas accesible to anyone able to
appreciate them.
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:04:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: hacgate.22947
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Aug17.234235.5630@nmt.edu> houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.225011.11731@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>
>>need not apply.  Most people I see ridding or walking and having the
>>stock do the work are just overweight and out of shape.
>>(considering the octegenarians and children I've seen carrying their
>>own stuff, you've got to pretty infirm to to have an excuse!)  At
>>the same time I would hate to see the Sierra crest made inaccessable
>>to persons who have a legitamate disability.
>
>	Then again,  when Socorro Search and Rescue had a midnight hike up
>South Baldy mountain near here,  one of the people who came along was blind;
>an accomplishment that amazed me.  Then again,  between the smokers and the

Back when I hiked with the Sierra Club one guy climbed Rattlesnake Peak in
the San Gabes, probably 2000 ft gain, on crutches.  Then there was the fellow
with bulging stomach doing an impressive 5.7 pitch.  A lot of people
out there were born before WWI was over, over there.  I have seen some
plump or just plain lazy ones on pack animals, but nobody who would need
a wheelchair.  That "access for the physically disabled" stuff is bogus.

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Rich Washington)
Subject: Mammoth area hot springs?
Originator: rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: ca
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:26:52 GMT


I remember some discussion in the distant past about hot springs
in the area around Mammoth, but I didn't save the info.  So, if
anyone out there knows where you can find publicly-accessible
hot springs around Mammoth, could you drop me a note?  Email please;
I'll summarize to the net if there's enough interest.

				Thanks,
				Rich
				rw@cs.stanford.edu
From: jgotobed@lpl.arizona.edu (Joe Gotobed x4549)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wind River Range, Wyoming---Info
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:11:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

In article <1992Aug19.181008.11198@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gdblanke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Greg D Blankenship) writes:
>
>     I plan on hiking to the Cirque of the Towers from the Big Sandy
>  entrance of the Wind River Range in Wyoming the week of Sept. 8th. 
>  Any Information would be appreciated.
>     email would be great.  gdblanke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>          Thanks.

Wind rivers.... great place, we did our first trip in there this
summer & the CT is beautiful. It's about 10.5 miles into Lonesome lake
from Big Sandy but you don't want to stay there. Rather go another half
mile to the "upper" cirque which is above, south(to the left from the
main pass above North Lake)

The main trail will take you to the right (North) of North lake along
the south flank of Mitchell peak and then over JAckass Pass. This is
about a 700+ foot climb and then you cross the pass and go down several
hundered feet before turning left to go to the upper cirque.

Instead, just before you get to North lake outlet, about the time you
can sense a lake being there but not quite see it there's a path &
perhaps a carin.  Take the left fork.

This will take you south of the North Lake outlet and you have a short
scramble across a boulder field. Then up & over a slightly higer pass
to the south (a few hundered yards) of the main trail. This saves you
several hundered feet of up&down&up&down and puts you just above the
upper cirque area. Go about a half mile due west to a very nice area
for camping just below Cirque Lake. From there it's a 10 minute walk to
the shoulder of Pingora, and approaches to the absoulutely beautiful
climbs in the CT.

Get Finis Mitchells little guide book to the Wind Rivers and take a
fishing pole.

We shared a large area with one other couple and it was easy to stay
out of sight of eachother for the whole week! A peak over the shoulder
of Pingora revealed *several* tents around LOnesome Lake. Though you'll
likely find it very quiet in a couple of weeks.

It should go without saying but it doesn't, *PACK IT OUT*. We picked up
an old oven grill, parts to a SIGG Tourist campset and several large
empty trash bags. A pity.

Enjoy!
Joe
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Gotobed                        Internet       (joe@arizona.edu)
Network & Systems Manager          SPAN                 LOONEY::JSG
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory     University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721  (602) 621-4549
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: geraghty@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Kevin M Geraghty)
Subject: Re: Moose (was wolves)
Originator: geraghty@sadye
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:08:33 GMT

From article <41309@ogicse.ogi.edu>, by jhurst@amb4.ese.ogi.edu (James Hurst):
> wayne trzyna writes:
> 
>>Moose were re-introduced to Colorado not too long ago.  They seem to
>>be doing well.  I saw my first Colorado moose last weekend.  
> 
> I saw my first a couple years ago on the back side of Rocky Park.  The Park
> people were ecstatic, they had apparently come *over* the Neversummer Mtns
> from some FS wilderness areas, so the NPS got them for free.  What a deal,
> the PS people we talked to were almost jumping up and down, since we were
> only about the third sighting in the park.
> 

In some areas of northern New England the moose population has
burgeoned to the point where they are considered  a nuisance/danger.
The beasts aren't too bright about cars.  If you catch 'em on the road
more often than not they will run away from you, straight down the
road instead of going off into the brush. If you collide with an adult  moose
at 50mph you're probably dead, because they're tall enough that their
bodies come right through the windshield instead of hitting the front
of the car.  There's a stretch of highway between Errol and Rangeley on
the Me-NH border that many locals refuse to drive at night because of
the moose hazard.

So--an interesting social choice has been made: some people in
Colorado will die in the next 20 years because moose were
reintroduced. Contrast that to the flap about the introduction of
wolves to Yellowstone, where the issue is hazard to livestock, not people. 

Kevin Geraghty
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry