HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Reply-To: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 02:35:04 GMT

In article <BzJE63.K2u@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
> 

> The same is true of usenet.  pubnet.nixpub has a list of 
> several hundred public access unix sites that are available 
> for peanuts to anyone with a modem.  There are four or five 
> of them in my local calling area and the subscription ranges 
> from free to $80 a year.

  Yes, but how does the guy who just bought a modem find that list?
  This is a chicken and egg situation.
> 
> >Finally it is not that expensive, since a typical session 
> takes only 2-5 minutes on-line, and all the time-consuming 
> reading and writing is done off-line.
> 
> Even if you can do it in five minutes that's still more than 
> $1 a day plus monthly fee or about $40 a month compared to 
> $80 a year for unlimited time on usenet.
> 
> Not sure how you can download all the messages in the beer 
> fora in 5 minutes but you still have to log back on and 
> upload your responses, if you choose to respond.   I suspect 
> about ten minutes a day is more typical and now we are 
> talking about $70 a month and haven't even thought about the 
> other hundreds of fora that we all like to participate in on 
> usenet.  To do on Compuserve, what I do on usenet, would 
> easily cost me $200 a month and I do most my reading and 
> writing off line.
> 
  I follow 5 different forums, two all the sections, others 
  partially. Using the automated software that permits to chose
  which threads to read and which threads to ignore (Big fault on
  Usenet, there are no threads, each message is independent, and 
  therefore contains massive quotes from the preceeding ones in
  order to make sense), I download some 80-150 messages every day
  in about 5 minutes at 9600. My CIS bill is typically $70 per
  month with a couple of binary downloads thrown in.

> I would also point out that the university connections on 
> usenet brings a technical expertise to many discussions that 
> Compuserve can't even come close to.

  I would not bet on it. There are quite a few scientists on CIS, 
  and also professional brewers.

Pierre



Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York
From: peterm@dtc.hp.com (Sweet Pete)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Gleaming immersion chiller
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:52:54 GMT
Organization: Where No Man Has Gone Before

In article <1992Dec16.181118.8923@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> kral@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral) writes:
>
>OK, I just asked the resident chemist here.  He says, I had it right. The
>acidity etches off the copper oxide.  He says that all metals have an 
>associated etch rate.  Stainless steel is very low and things like copper
>are relatively high.  (This chemist is a former homebrewer also).

Interesting.  Is he a "former" brewer because after he realized what was
happening he stopped rather than die of copper poisoning?  :-)

	Peter
-- 
Peter C. Maxwell,                      ARPA:   peterm@dtc.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company,
5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 53U/36,    UUCP:   ..!hplabs!aoraki!peterm
Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059             (408) 553 2512
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ulick@bernini.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:21:18 GMT

In article <Bz3MrA.E5D@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
> 
>               COMPUSENET, That's all folks....
> 
> Some welcome!  Well, you'al can't say that my heart wasn't 
> in the right place.
> 
> Now that we have had a tiny glimpse of what transpires on 
> Compuserve, it is hard not to draw comparisons to r.c.b. and 
> HBD.  I can't help but wonder why so many people are willing 
> to spend 21 cents a minute for that which is available free 
> via internet.
>

It did seem rather worthless, and paying for it!!!  I mean anyone with
computer and modem can get free news from a number of sites if they are\
not fortunate enough to get it at their site.  I noticed a few mentioned
in news.groups.  But obviously many people use Compuserve and if they all
switched to free internet sites the effect on both fora would be quite
tumultuos. 
> I think Compuserve's protective policy is a bit of shooting 
> themselves in the foot.  By restricting the two way flow of 
> discussions cross-fora, they are providing ample reason for 
> people to abandon the Compuserve forum in favor of the HBD 
> and participate in a much larger and more diversified group 
> to boot.
> 
> They have also cut off easy access to the 
> soon-to-be-announced USENET ESSAY CONTEST.  But such is 
> life.
> 
The what?
> js
>

Thanks for doing the posting to give us an idea.  It will be interesting to see
what reaction this thread gets when it is uploaded over there :-).  But, of
course, we won't see it.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: COMPUSENET DEC 10
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:26:38 GMT

In article <606@ssdc.UUCP> jbasara@ssdc.UUCP (Jim Basara) writes:
>ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz) writes:
>: What good does that do?  You have absolutely no means of enforcing 
>: such restrictions.  I too am a bit annoyed that Compuserve takes
>: advantage of the net without providing any services in return,
>: but there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  I feel
>: the same way about those leaches who make CD-ROMs out of FTP
>: archives and sell them.
>: 
>
>Maybe if we all put "Compuserve SUCKS" and "you can get News for free" in 
>our .sig files, the crossposting would stop.

Or try including a list of public access USENET sites that carry
r.c.b in a monthly FAQ posting....


-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: pmk@moliere.uucp (Peter Michael Klausler)
Subject: Compuserve
Organization: Lilydale DFL Refreshments Committee & Rhythm Section
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:36:11 GMT

In article <pp-r8h#@lynx.unm.edu> schaker@carina.unm.edu (Stefan Yen Chakerian) writes:
>
>This article is NOT copyrighted.  It is in the public domain.
>Copuserve or any other rip-off service may archive this and feed it
>to their rich, naive, or both subscribers.  I hope they make
>$1,000,000.36 off it, too, and congrats because I didn't think of
>starting up such a service first.

Compuserve is certainly within their rights to provide Usenet postings
to their subscribers. And they may apply any restrictions they like
to the contents of their forums. The subscribers to these services
agree with the restrictions, or they wouldn't pay for the service.

From the excerpts of Compuserve's homebrewing forum that were copied
here to rec.crafts.brewing, it would seem that they have polite and
worthwhile content. I would like to see it, and I wish that its
posters would participate instead on free networks and the mailing lists;
but the use of Compuserve is certainly their choice.

I do wish that the AHA would not promote Compuserve as heavily as they do,
though. Use of anarchic free networks would seem to be more in tune with
the independent spirit of homebrewing, if you will, than the use of a large
commercial service. Indeed, in the most recent Zymurgy, they advertised
Compuserve and made passing mention of the Homebrew Digest, ignoring
Usenet altogether.
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________

"Omit needless words."                 Peter Klausler - pmk%moliere@uunet.uu.net
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:57:23 EDT
Organization: 5 Sigma Software
Reply-To: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v5


In article <1992Dec16.130120.25332@news.columbia.edu> (rec.crafts.brewing), pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc) writes:
) Guess what, in the real world, nodody's heard of Usenet, Internet or 
) newsgroups. Compuserve is everywhere, provides excellent service from
) your home, be it with an Apple or a NeXt, an 8080 or a 486. Anyone can
) access the libraries, that contain a wealth of files (how many of you
) have a TCP/IP connection at home?).

Perhaps there should be an effort to make uucp connections more widely
available to home users.  This message is brought to you from my
Mac IIci sitting at home with a v.32 connection to UUNET.  For example.
It costs me about $70/month to receive mail and a bunch of news I
don't always read.  UAccess (the Mac software) provides a painless
and pleasant visual mail and news reading interface, and decent uucp
transfers as well.

It was kind of a pain to configure, but if, say, UUNET or PSI wanted
to get into the business of selling canned uucp kits for PCs and Macs,
the ingredients are definitely out there, particularly in PC-land.

=======================================================================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: bobd@fwi.uva.nl (Bob Diertens)
Subject: Re: La Chouffe
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:58:57 GMT

homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov (Jim Busch) writes:

>Recently, a friend of mine brought back some delicious belgium
>ale: La Chouffe.  I am thinking of doing some experiments with
>the yeast that we cultured, and I thought Id ask if anyone
>out there in digest land has ever brewed with this yeast.  I
>am particularly interested if anyone cultured it or brewed
>directly with the dregs.

The yeast is very good. I just it once directly with the dregs.
The bottle was 6 months old.
It resulted in a very good beer.

>FWIW, La Chouffe is  a small craft brewery in Belgium.  The
>beer weighs in at 7.8%vol, and it is actually available on
>draft in a few locations. I found it in Brugge, at the beer
>place that M. Jackson talks about in his book and video.
>A very well made beer!

The brewery isn't that small anymore. It has recently been expanded.
They have also a few other beers:
	McChouffe
	La Malmedy
Try them.

Greetings
	Bob
-- 
- Bob Diertens ---------------------------------------------------------------
- University of Amsterdam ------------- bobd@fwi.uva.nl ----------------------
- the Netherlands --------------------- bobd%fwi.uva.nl@hp4nl.nluug.nl -------
- There are 2 unreadable lines below this one. -------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Me!! Ted.)
Subject: Brewing, other things besides beer???
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:33:40 GMT




	I really enjoy beer and a good brew.  But, I have a slight
problem.  My digestive system doesn't break beer down well...I end
up with deposits of uric acid (crystalized) in the strangest places.
Well, I guess  you could say that I can't get rid of uric acid.
So, I can't have more than one beer a week.

	However, I can have other forms of alcohol.  My question is,
(besides wine of course) is there other forms of alcohol that are
legal to make, and is there a limit?
	I don't want to be a moonshiner...too much work.  Plus,
illegal.  I want to make something for myself only.  I have thought
about wine.  But, I am not sure about that at this point in time...
maybe in a couple years.

Thanks!

-- 
         Swallowing your pride rarely leads to indigestion.
         A hard thing about business is minding your own!
-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu   &    trwagner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aaa@cad17.genrad.com (Andy A. Alvino)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Help
Date: 15 Dec 1992 07:46:40 -0500
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cad17.genrad.com



Greetings All,

I am a novice brewer and since I've started reading rec.crafts.brewing, and 
Papazian's book, I have a few questions.

1)  About yeast starters:  I know that you boil a 1.020 wort, cool, and add 
the contents of the swollen liquid yeast package.  But what about 
fermentation?  Is the bottle open, covered with foil, or is an air lock used?

Also, what about temperature?  Does the type of yeast, ale or lager, dictate 
the starter fermentation temperature?

2)  I'm about to make my first lager.  Is 50 F a suitable temperature for 
fermentation?  After bottling, at what temperature are the bottles stored at, 
50 F or room temperature (65 - 70 F).

3)  About sanitation:  Is boiling utensils better than a bleach/water rinse?
What about B-Brite, is this stuff any good?


Thanks for any input, I've made 4 great batches of ale so far, (amber, porter,
stout, and cranberry) and am looking forward to making every recipe in 
Papazian. (;^)


Andy Alvino
From: ech@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Couple of quick questions...
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:09:18 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Dec15.064340.3528@nic.csu.net>, steve@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell) writes:
> In article <1992Dec14.193702.23442@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>>I would strongly suggest that you not pour hot wort into your fermenter, 
>>for a number of reasons:
>>
>>1) Oxidation
>>The more you slosh hot wort about, the more likely it is to oxidize.  This 
>>causes it to taste bad.
> 
> Not true (in that, oxidation is not a bad thing).  Your yeast need
> oxygen during the initial phases of fermentation.
> 
> It is after the beer is fermented that oxidizing should be avoided.
> Specifically, oxidation should be avoided at bottling time.
> 
> This is the second time I've heard somebody get this backwards here
> in r.c.brewing.  What's the confusion?
> 
> --steve
> 
> p.s. Of course, if *I* have it backwards, then I'm the one with
> malt on my face. :)
> 
> --
> Steve Mitchell / steve_mitchell@csufresno.edu / steve@caticsuf.csufresno.edu
> "STUFF: Anything that can be used for homebrewing."  "JUNK: Everything else
> you thought could be used for homebrewing, but can't."


	Guess who has malt on their face?  Actually, aeration and oxidation
of wort/beer is pretty tricky.  Sloshing HOT wort can oxidize it, sloshing
COLD wort aerates it.  If wort is aerated for too long, it can oxidize.  
Thus:  cool the wort as quickly and quietly as possible (bathtub full of cold
water does it for me), then splash the hell out of it getting it into the
primary, then pitch the yeast.  Be careful not to aerate after fermentation.
During fermentation CO2 produced by the yeast will force the O2 out of solution.
After fermentation stops, any added O2 will stay and can lead to oxidation.

	Ed
From: mark@verdix.com (Mark Lundquist)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: aeration of wort
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:26:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.9264
Organization: Verdix Western Operations, Aloha  OR

In article <1992Dec17.143135.9868@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov (andy rogers) writes:
>my main concern using this method for aerating (oxygenating) wort is that the
>pump is pushing room air into it. you might as well have no airlock while
>doing this. i guess since your doing this, there's no fermentation since
>there's plenty of oxygen there. the yeast should be just reproducing, right?
>so the point must be just to get a lot of yeast into the wort. it would seem
>simpler to use a good starter, and you'd have less chance of pumping
>insecticide (or whatever might be in your air) into your wort.

I believe that brewers who use this method use an inline air filter to
keep out the nasties.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: malodah@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort?
Reply-To: malodah@PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:43:40 GMT

In article <jdecarlo.506.724706328@mitre.org> jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo) writes:
>Well, reports I heard from the AHA convention on the use of such a device 
>involved a filter that was small enough (5 microns???) to keep out the 
>unwanted microorganisms in your air.
>
>Anyone with more details on this or the device being marketed as mentioned 
>above?

Alberta Rager's presentation was on using an aquarium air pump to
force air through a 0.2 micron filter and into a bubbler in the 
wort.  That size filter will remove all yeast and bacteria, and
there's only one rare virus, I'm told, that ever is a problem in
beer.  Several of us (remember Pete Soper, John?) have experimented 
with this, with varying results.

Alberta sells the filters in her shop.  They're standard items available 
through scientific supply houses, but usually in quantity.

	- Martin
-- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: andy rogers <rogers@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: aeration of wort
X-Xxdate: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:15:15 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:31:35 GMT

In article <9263@verdix.verdix.com> Mark Lundquist, mark@verdix.com writes:
>Speaking as one whose only interest in fish is of a gustatory nature,
>can you educate me regarding just what in the sam-hill are "aeration
>stones", anyway?  Normally I would have asked you via E-mail, but it
>seems to me that there may be other r.c.b. readers besides myself
>who are similarly ignorant of aquarium matters!

referring to those (usually green) stones with lots of little holes in them
and a pipe running into it at one end. hook a hose from the air pump to the
pipe sticking out and place the stone behind some decoration or bury it under
the gravel or just leave it lying out in the open. with the air pump going
you're pumping room air into the stone and it comes out from the stone in
little tiny bubbles. the bouyancy of the bubbles causes them to rise which
causes a current to circulate the water in the tank.

my main concern using this method for aerating (oxygenating) wort is that the
pump is pushing room air into it. you might as well have no airlock while
doing this. i guess since your doing this, there's no fermentation since
there's plenty of oxygen there. the yeast should be just reproducing, right?
so the point must be just to get a lot of yeast into the wort. it would seem
simpler to use a good starter, and you'd have less chance of pumping
insecticide (or whatever might be in your air) into your wort.

aNDY
----
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Fruit Flies
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean  VA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:37:55 GMT

In article <ibiggs.17@fox.nstn.ns.ca>
 ibiggs@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Kevin Crawford) writes:

>I brewed a batch of beer last week, and during the primary fermentation, the 
>garbage bag on tied on top of the bucket came off and was sitting for some 
>period of time (no longer than 12 hours).  When I noticed the condition of 
>the brew, it already had 15-20 fruit flies hovering over it.  Though I didn'
>t see any inside the beer, it wouldn't suprise me if a couple enjoyed a 
>foamy death ( what a way to go).

You tie a garbage bag on top of your fermentor?  Why not use a lid that fits 
better?

BTW, St. Patrick's of Texas is still advertising 7 gallon carboys for $10 
plus shipping.  Pretty useful for primary fermentation of 5 gallon batches.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: mgooley@advtech.uswest.com (Mark. Gooley)
Subject: feeding yeast with yeast
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:42:38 GMT

I have several pounds of baker's yeast that is approaching its expiration
date (bought it cheap therefore).  Suppose that I take several ounces of
it, mix that with water, and boil it to death.  Would it make an adequate
substitute for yeast nutrient for brewing mead?

Mark. Gooley
mgooley@advtech.uswest.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ulick@michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Is my water too hard?
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:19:12 GMT

In article <1gkulfINNbsq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq840@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven Zabarnick) writes:
>
>I'm about to start my first ever attempt at home-brewing, but
>I'm concerned about using our tap water. According to our city,
>our water has a hardness of 420 mg/liter CaCO3. This seems quite
>high compared with the discussions I've seen on the net. Is my
>water to hard to make good beer?

Like wow!  Read Miller on water treatment.  Chances are much of your 
hardness is temporary and boiling will remove it.  You could make very good
Pale Ales with the water as is, if the harndess is permanent (i.e. not all
carbonate - but some sulfate).  Boil to soften and it may be OK.  All classic
styles of beer except Pilsener use relatively hard water.  Do you have the 
complete analysis?  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing