From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: Focus on Crucifiction (was: Cruxed for Prophecy?)
Keywords: crucifiction prophecy sacrifice hebrew
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:23:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.230735.13888@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.030126.15358@hfsi.uucp> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>>Yes, but were those victims Josephus tells about treated the same
>>way as Jesus was or did they merely hang on the cross fastened
>>with ropes?  Were they scouraged and their heads split opened with
>>thorns, etc the way it was done to Jesus?  I think that these are
>>important details.
>
>Was Jesus' head "split open with thorns"? I thought they would inflict
>painful but superficial flesh wounds.

First of all, head wounds by nature bleed more profusely than
other kinds of wounds.  Second of all, place your hand over your
head and tell me how much flesh is their between the top of your
head and your scull?  Now try real hard to imagine a sharp hard
thorn being able to pierce to the scull.  How long would it have
to be?  If the thorns were hard and sharp like say a hawthorne
plant, what effect do you think it would have on your head if
someone pushed it in as far is it would go.  Then multiply that by
the number of thorns such a crown was likely to have and tell me
with a straight face that it was only superficial flesh wounds.
How much blood do you think Jesus lost coupled with the brutal
scouraging he received?  Or do you think that was superficial too?
I mean, no one ever died from the Roman scourage, right? 

>
>Here is Josephus' complete text on that. From "The Life of Flavius
>Josephus", section 75:
>
>     ... as I came back I saw many captives crucified; and remembered
>     three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this
>     in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told
>     him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down,
>     and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their
>     recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands,
>     while the third recovered.
>
>Now, if these men had been merely tied to a cross, I fail to see why
>two of the three would die after being taken down (or why they would
>even need more than superficial care from a physician). Actually, I am
>wondering if we have any *credible* evidence that some victims were
>simply tied to crosses. I suspect that all of them were nailed.

*Sigh*, I really don't know about that particular case and neither
do you.  Again, however, I repeat that I am suprised that Jesus
was alive at the time that they nailed Him to the cross much less
survived for 3 hours.  From what you've told me you don't have any
evidence that the people Josephus documented suffered anything
like Jesus did.  So if you don't know, then why do you bring it
up? 

>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com

-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
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