HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Subject: Re: It's only the Packers
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 18 NOV 92 14:43:01    

In article <1992Nov17.222007.8350@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, chrisc@cae.wisc.edu (Chris Carey) writes...

>I think with the way the Bears are playing the Packers will beat them.  Further
>I think Tampa and Detriot will have problems in the cold, finally I think the
>Packers can beat the Rams.  I realize this might be stretching it, but if they
>play like they have lately I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

Possible?  You bet.  And all they have to do to accomplish it is play 
the kind of football they played last week.  I just think it's a lot 
more likely that they'll play the kind of ball they played the week 
before - and the week before that...  Just 2 weeks ago against the 
Giants they had 5 turnovers, a blocked punt, a bobbled punt snap, a 
muffed punt, and a missed FG.

Don't get me wrong - this team is definately headed in the right 
direction.  The most important this is that they're getting better 
even if the win/loss columns don't show that.  If Holmgren can make 
this much difference in the team in his 1st year ...

JGH
From: 5912ramasubr@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Packer News
Date: 21 Nov 1992 17:35:52 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5912ramasubr@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

Hi there
As the Pack heads 90 miles south of Milwaukee where
they beat the Eagles they are beset by injury
problems. Favre will start though I am not sure
as to how much he has healed. Since it has been
the principle in Holmgren/Wolf regime that
the Players should not talk about their injuries
to the media it is not possible to know the extent
to which he has been hurt. Vince Workman who was
on his way to a 1000 yard rushing season (he needed
60 yds/gm in the remaining 6 ) has been put on IR.
He will be eligible to play in the last home game
of the season at Lambeau Field against the Rams.
Darrel Thompson is also hurt and Edgar Bennett
a rookie ( I believe from Florida State , can anyone
clarify? ) will get the chance to start and show his 
worth. Defensive End Matt Brock will see some action
though it is very much doubtful as to he will start.
Since it is a new RB the Packers should be extra
careful w.r.t. the fumbles. I think GB is the 
leading team in NFL in fumbles. Ex SF 49'er (so 
what's new ?) Ron Lewis is the latest person
trying to land the job of being the " other
wide receiver " . Sterling Sharpe has 68 rec's
from 10 games and is on pace to catch 109 . 
If this extrapolation holds good in the playing
field then he would have broken Art Monkster's
record of 106 catches in a season . Last I saw 
in a Newspaper GB was leading the NFC in TOp
with 32:54 /game prior to the game last week
and last week they controlled the ball for about
36 min. So I guess they are still in first place.

The odds are slightly in Chicago's favour and
Pack has to play consistent to win. The key
IMHO would be take it as another game and 
approach it in a normal manner and not get 
too keyed up because the opponents are the
Bears.  Turnovers will again be the key.

Here are my comaprisons of the two teams by
position.

QB :	Even if Favre starts Edge to Chi if Don starts.
RB :  Edge to the Bears because of VW/DT injuries.
WR :  Edge to Green Bay
TE :  Edge to Green Bay (Jackie Harris is tied for the 
			   lead in rec's with Novacek)
OL :  Slight Edge to Chicago
DL :  Edge to Chicago
LB :  Edge to Chicago but not by much
SEC:  Edge to Green Bay (more speed)
K  :  Slight edge to Jackie
P  :  Not much info about Wagner. Edge to Bears.
KR/PR : Fumbling Pack's problem : About even.
Weather : Both teams used to it.
Int: Home field to Chocago
     Momentum (slight) to Green Bay.

Bye, and happy viewing 
Hopefully Pack will do well

		******   ******
                     *   *
                ******   ******
                *             *
                ******   ******        and counting down .
From: thomas@ritcsh.csh.rit.edu (Run Around Platy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: THE BET III
Summary: Count me in!
Keywords: AFC, Best, Woof!
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:30:28 GMT
Organization: Buffalo Bills fans of WNY
Originator: thomas@nick.csh.rit.edu


I want in, too. My vote is for the AFC!

-thom

-- 
Thom Craver             |  "It is the duty of men to love
thomas@nick.csh.rit.edu |   even those who injure them."
trc6398@ritvax.rit.edu	|               - Marcus Aurelius
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Radio 90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall)
Subject: Re: Dolphins vs. Bills: Poor Calls
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:52:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.204215.11672@asl.dl.nec.com> nix@aslslc43.asl.dl.nec.com (David Nix) writes:
>  What irked me is that the referee should have invoked "in the 
>grasp" rule before the ball was thrown; Coleman and Kelly looked like a couple
>at a prom dance. 
Maybe Jimbo was "in the grasp"... but the rule is "grasp AND CONTROL!!"

> But credit Kelly: he was strong enough to keep his feet...
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That statement does not imply control; therefore the call was not that bad.
>
>In spite of all the bad calls, I don't believe they decided the game.  Each
>team had bad calls against them, and the two non-TD calls that cost the Bills
>4 points pretty much offset the afore-mentioned grounding play.

BTW, I keep hearing about whether the ball was in-bounds when it passed the
goal line.  Can I get a clarification as to whether or not the ball must 
cross inside the pylon?  My impression was that the ball is not out-of-bounds
until it TOUCHES DOWN out of bounds.  If that's the case, neither TT or the
ball were out of bounds before the ball broke the plane of the goal line, 
thus giving us an actual BLOWN CALL!!!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ron Steve                         |
"My views are my own, not those   |        LET'S GO BUFFALO!!!
of WLAY, Tarkington Hall, and     |    AFC EAST CHAMPS 1988/89/90/91
especially not those of           |      AFC CHAMPIONS 1990, 1991
Purdue University!!!"             |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 90.1 FM  WLAY  Tarkington Hall -=- "West Lafayette's Get Lucky Radio Station."
From: kist@acsu.buffalo.edu (james e kist)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Bills 26 Fins 20
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:16:19 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <By2wsA.7KI@acsu.buffalo.edu> v073pzuy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Damned for all time...) writes:
>In article <BxuM87.6sw@acsu.buffalo.edu>, kist@acsu.buffalo.edu (james e kist) 
>	writes...
>
>>One more thing: this the a Professional football league, so shouldn't we
>>have Professional refs?
>
>Then the gates would be open for the mob to buy off the (low-paid) referees.
>
>The referees currently are all well-to-do men.  Just very senile!
>
>					---Chet Zeshonski
>

Anybody know how the refs are chosen? What are their qualifications?
(obviously pretty low, after watching Monday Night's game)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: AFC TEAMS STINK
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:27:45 GMT

In article <26588@optima.cs.arizona.edu> curtis@optima.UUCP (Curtis E. Dyreson) writes:

>From article <1992Nov16.204906.10176@netcom.com>, by mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers):

>> But what you're missing is that we're not claiming the NFC has some
>> built-in magic; merely that it's where the better teams have been for
>> a decade.

>All or just some of the better teams?  Enquiring minds want to know....

In some years, maybe just half.  In other years, I've felt the best 5 or
6 teams came from the NFC.

But in general the NFC has had much more than half.  Much more.


-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: douthit@convex.com (Ronnie Douthit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Troy Aikman
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:31:26 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


>In article <cqkcyes@Unify.Com> tsv@Unify.com (Tim Vannaman) writes:
>>I've been a 'Boys fan all of my life (even thru the dark ages!), and am
>>disgusted w/ the way Troy played in the final minute of the Rams game.
...
jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
>Food for thought. Compare Steve Young's performance when he was down
>20-3 and how me came through. Big difference. The comparsion is 

Elway is a great comeback guy, but he didn't come back in every game.
Steve Young did a good job, but he won't do it in every game.

The cowboys have been in this postion only once this year.  This is not
a sample size from which you could draw some general conclusion.  Sure he
made an obvious mistake when running that one play when he should have slammed
the ball in the ground.  What you seem to forget, however, is that he
did drive the team down to the ~15 yard line.  It is easy to be an arm
chair quaterback, but things look a lot different on the field.

You can't win them all and you can't blame one person for a game that
the Rams won and 47 Cowboy players lost.

			-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: bergerson@cvdv79.mayo.edu (Chad D. Bergerson)
Subject: Re: Bills best in NFL--unquestionably!!!
Reply-To: bergerson@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 19:59:02 GMT



You sound like the stupid Iggles fans after they beat Dallas.

The Super Bowl was a sure thing for them too.

The only sure thing about a Bills super bowl is that if they are in it
they will LOSE!!!


--
*******************************************************************************
Chad D. Bergerson                            Internet: bergerson@mayo.edu
Mayo Clinic                                  Voice: (507) 255-7567
200 First Street SW                          FAX: (507) 255-5484
Mail Stop 2D-334 STM            "In my dream I was drowning my sorrows  
Rochester, MN  55905             But my sorrows they learned to swim..." - U2
*******************************************************************************
From: k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Keith J. Mullins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Eagles will go 16-0 and win the Super Bowl!!
Date: 17 Nov 92 03:54:56 GMT
Organization: Plymouth State College -- Plymouth, NH


	*chuckle* I still get a kick over this one.  Now the
  Silly Philly Eagles are fighting to make a winning season.....

     K-->       Eagles ahead of the 9ers?  NOT!




-- 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
| Keith J. Mullins	    |
| k_mullin.oz.plymouth.edu  | 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu (De Vaughn Elledge)
Subject: Re: AFC TEAMS STINK
Reply-To: delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI 48202
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:40:25 GMT


DV>In article <1992Nov18.222206.25324@netcom.com>, mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
DV>|> In article <BxxCqn.5yt@acsu.buffalo.edu> v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER) writes:
DV>|> 
DV>|> >In article <1992Nov16.163218.19492@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>, lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes...
DV>|> 
DV>|> >>I happen to think that the Giants were no better than the Bills. 
DV>|> >>I also think that the 49ers were the best of the three.
DV>|> 
DV>|> >If the 49'ers were the best in 1990 how come they lost to the Giants.
DV>|> >The 49'ers lost because of Craig's fumble and Montana's injury.
DV>|> >When is the last time the 49'ers beat an opponent by 48 points in
DV>|> >the NFC Championship Game?
DV>|> 
DV>|> Oh, get real.  The fact that the Bills smeared the Raiders and then
DV>|> lost to the Giants could just as easily be construed as evidence for
DV>|> NFC superiority.  Besides, the only time the Niners really ring up
DV>|> the numbers in the playoffs is when they get past the tough NFC foes
DV>|> and get to cruise on the Fins or the Doncos.
DV>|> 
DV>|> The Bills' drubbing of conference opponents will *not* be evidence of
DV>|> their superiority until they can equally drub an NFC team - ANY NFC team -
DV>|> in the Big Dance.
DV>|> 
DV>|> >The Bills were the best team of 1990, they just didn't prove it in
DV>|> >the Super Bowl.
DV>|> 
DV>|> The Bills were the best AFC team of 1990 (and 1991); what they proved
DV>|> in the SBs was that they still can't hang with the best of the NFC.
DV>|> 
DV>|> >Bruce, a Bills fan.
DV>|> 
DV>|> And then some.
DV>|> 
DV>|> -- 
DV>|> Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
DV>|> SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
DV>|> Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
DV>
DV>Despite the fact that the Bills haven't won the Super Bowl, they do have one thing on the NFC "gods" you worship, consistency over several years.
DV>After XXV - Bills, kicked butt next year.  Giants, whats a football?
DV>After XXVI - Bills, currently first in AFC.  Redskins, struggling for wildcard.
DV>Some NFC teams, eh?
From: v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Snoopy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: BILLS WIN!!!!
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:39:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov18.162357.18352@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, blah@maas-neotek.arc.
nasa.gov (TWF) writes...
>In article <Bxw39L.917@acsu.buffalo.edu> v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
>(Snoopy) writes:
>>In article <1ebb3eINNsth@morrow.stanford.edu>, GC.JAB@forsythe.stanford.edu
>>(Tony Bechtold) writes...
>>>In article <BxuJJ8.Mqp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>,
>>>wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Radio 90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall) writes:

>>>>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFF!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>Bills 26, Fish 20
>>>>
>>>>Just got done hearing a dolfan complain about the officiating... there were
>>>>calls BOTH ways close enough that I wouldn't want to have to make the call!
>>>>But, a minor reality check: IT'S OVER!! There is nothing you can do about
>>>>it!!
>>> 
>>>There were bad calls both ways, but the worst had to be in the
>>>closing minutes of the game when Kelly clearly intentionally
>>>grounded the ball back on the Buffalo 2.  Considering that Buffalo
>>>would have had loss of down, and 23 yards to go for a first down,
>>>that one bad call might have very well cost Miami the game. Miami
>>>would have had good field position with a few minutes to punch it
>>>in.  Maybe they would have. Maybe they wouldn't have!
>>
>>	How about all the missed false-starts on Marino?  Most quarterbacks do
>>that, and get away with it, but it's still against the rules.  It should be
>>called when it's blatant, and it was.  For that matter, calling Thomas out-of-
>>bounds inside the one was a questionable call.  The ref was right there, but
>>did not have a good angle.  Also, the Bills were robbed of a touchdown when
>>Pete Metzelaars dove for the ball in the endzone.  Without the poor officiating,
>>the Dolphins would not have been that close.
> 
>Give me a break already with the Marino false-starts.  Quarterbacks
>have been doing that for ages, and it is *rarely* called.  If it was
>sooo distracting, then why was Smith the only one to jump offsides,
>and why only 2 or 3 times, instead of every snap?  Smit was trying to
>time the snap count, nothing more.  

	It's against the rules.  If it's against the rules, it should be called,
if it isn't called, it shouldn't be against the rules.  This is inconsistent,
but as long as it's in the rules, it should be called, regardless of how often
the rule is disobeyed.

>And Metzelaars let the bottom of the ball come in contact with the
>ground - the pass was incomplete.  Face it, it was a great game.
>Nothing less, nothing more.

	I don't agree.  The replays showed his arms underneath the ball.  It
should have been a touchdown.
	Just for reference's sake, I didn't see Kelly's alleged intentional
grounding.

>Mark
>Go Dallas...
> 
>.... and why isn't A&M #3?

Snoopy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria)
Subject: Re: Menu In Dallas Tonight... Crow
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:59:16 GMT

In article <JIM.92Nov15223311@scf16.scf.loral.com> jim@scf16.scf.loral.com (Jim Livesey) writes:
>
>   To all you Dallas fans who thought the Rams were a cake walk...
>
>  This Crows for you...
>--
>
>         _/  _/  _/         _/   ---  Jim Livesey
>        _/  _/  _/_/     _/_/    ---  Loral Space and Range Systems
>       _/  _/  _/  _/  _/ _/     ---  1260 Crossman Ave.  MS-S37
> _/   _/  _/  _/   _/_/  _/      ---  Sunnyvale, California  94089
>  _/_/   _/  _/    _/   _/       ---  e-mail: jim@scf16.scf.loral.com 
>

                          ###
  #   #  ######   ####    ###
   # #   #       #        ###
    #    #####    ####     #
    #    #            #
    #    #       #    #   ###
    #    ######   ####    ###

THE FOOTBALL GODS HEARD MY PRAYERS!
-- 
  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
"I do not think that winning is the most important thing. 
I think winning is the only thing."    - Bill Veeck
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: johndoe@crispus.inmet (johndoe)
Subject: Re: Patriot Fans, Good News!
Reply-To: johndoe@inmet.com (Bus error - core dumped)
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
	<1992Nov16.185006.6231@osf.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:25:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.185006.6231@osf.org> bsmith@crustacean.osf.org (Bruce Smith) writes:
>>Do I detect a patriot woof here or what? Well, ok, he is right about the Pat 

am i the only one on the net who hates the term woof and vomits at all of
the traffic surrounding woofing theorems?  i have 'woof' in my kill file,
but of course that doesn't account for it showing up in the text of articles
i do want to read.

>Well, well, well, whaddya know! The Pats, who've played hard all year and not
>given up, finally won one. Yup, they saddled up the Colts and took 'em for
>a ride. Yaaaaahhhhooooooo!
>
>Patriots 34
>Geldings 31

first off, the score listed here is wrong.

patriots 37
colts	 34ot

second, since i'm here, i am a pats fan, but i'd be hard pressed to say they
saddled up the colts and took them for a ride.  the defense got a couple of
breaks, and did end up hitting george pretty hard, and the offense played
consistently throughout the game, and a lot of hard work and determination
(plus a little unexpected leadership from scott zolak on the two last-minute
drives) paid off.  i hope they can keep up the hard work in weeks to come,
even when it doesn't seem like it's paying off, because later on, it will.

>Bruce Smith

-johndoe

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: AFC TEAMS STINK
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:56:12 GMT

lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>Your emphatic "Of course" seems strange, in light of how decisively
>>Miami beat Chicago earlier that year.
> 
>That was based on 3 reasons:

First let me reiterate that this is no "of course".  You may say
you're sure the Bears would have blown Miami out; I say it would have
been at least close.  The only factual evidence we have is in support
(though weak) of my claim.

You can be smug all you want but in this case it's you who are
saying "what if" and I say "here's what."

>2) Fuller started that game in December. Jimbo was injured. Don't tell
>me Jimbo and Fuller are in the same caliber.

This is the one they always bring up and it always cracks me up.
You seem to imply that the Chicago D was able to shut Marino down, 
but didn't get support from the offense.  But that's not what happened
on that day!

Average game score in 1985:
  Chicago:    28.5  12.4
  Miami:      26.8  20.0
On that fateful Monday night game:  Miami 38, Chicago 24.

So Miami scored 11 points above  its average, in what was its second
highest output of the year!  No, I'm sorry, what decided the game was
Miami's offense running circles around the Bears D.

At the same time, the Chicago O was at least adequate, scoring just
below its average.  As a matter of fact, McMahon or no McMahon, the
Bears had only two games with 40 or more points that season, so it's
absurd to suggest that if only he were in the game they'd have won it.

So once again: One month before the playoffs, on national TV with lots
of pride at stake, the Bears were outplayed by Miami, and lost
decisively.  If you still insist on saying that no AFC team could
challenge them that year then you must be using a logic I'm not
familiar with.

And anyway, Ed, shouldn't you be discussing the Skins instead of the
1985 Bears?  I mean, I'm a dolfan, I got nothing to talk about except
the past, but you?

--Gidi
From: ckoontz@aud.alcatel.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Koontz Computer Predictions Week 12
Keywords: NFL, Computer Predictions, LA Rams 27 Dallas 23, Woof
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:34:31 GMT
Distribution: rec

The final tally on last week was 6-7-1 against the spread.  Not that
bad for a crazy week in the NFL.  The point spreads generated by my
algorithm seem to have gone down some this week.  There may be some
gradual decline which occurs through the course of the season that
needs to be tuned.  Here are my prognostications for this weekend:

Atlanta        21
Buffalo        52

Detroit        10
Cincinnati     27

Green Bay      27
Chicago        10

Philadelphia    6
NY Giants      27

Cleveland      16
Minnesota      17

Houston        24
Miami          26

Indianapolis   24
Pittsburgh     20

Dallas         24
Phoenix        31

San Francisco  21
LA Rams        26

Tampa Bay      17
San Diego      24

Denver         10
LA Raiders     20

NY Jets        13
New England    27

Kansas City    17
Seattle         6

Washington     17
New Orleans    20

Comments welcome (and guaranteed I am sure)

Carl
ckoontz@rdxsun40.aud.alcatel.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: eric@abode.ttank.com (Eric C. Bennett)
Subject: Re: Troy Aikman
Organization: Abode Computer Systems
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:36:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.041119.12857@PacBell.COM> jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
>Food for thought. Compare Steve Young's performance when he was down
>20-3 and how me came through. Big difference. The comparsion is 
>startling. Two QBs under pressure and how one choked and how one
>came through big time. I don't believe Aikman, has what it takes
>THIS year to come through in big games. Young has already proven
>that he can come back and win games under gun. Aikman has the RAW
>talent to be another Stauback, but the 'Boz fans will have to be
>patient. This is not to say that the 'Boz cannot win against the
>Niners. Everyone knows, or should, that any team can win/lose.

Agreed. Let's not forget that Young had a few years on the bench watching
Montana doing great things and Aikman has had to learn everything first hand.
Granted he has been a Pro for 4 years, he hasn't been in many game winning,
last second drive situations.

Eric
-- 

		Internet: eric@abode.ttank.com
		    uucp: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wvus!abode!eric