HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:16:41 EST
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Faculty and Student Pro Life Groups

I recently received a membership renewal form for University Faculty
for Life.  It occurred to me that since a lot of people on the net are
connected with higher education there may be others who would like to
know about it.  The brochure says:

    University Faculty for Life was founded in 1989 to promote re-
    search, dialogue and publication among faculty members who respect
    the value of human life from its inception to natural death, and
    to provide academic support for the pro-life position.  Respect
    for life is especially endangered by the current cultural forces
    seeking to legitimize such practices as abortion, infanticide and
    euthanasia.  We know that these topics are controversial, but we
    believe they are too important to be resolved by the shouting news
    bites and slogans that have dominated popular presentations of
    these issues.   Because we believe the evidence is on our side, we
    would  like to assure a hearing for our view in the academic
    community.

    The issues of abortion, infanticide and euthanasia have many
    dimensions--political, social, legal, medical, biological, psycho-
    logical, ethical and religious.  Accordingly, we hope to develop
    an inter-disciplinary forum in which these issues can be discussed
    among scholars.  We believe that by talking with one another we
    might better understand the values we share and become better
    informed in our expression and defense of them.


Membership is open to all current and former full time or part time
faculty members at a college or university.  Anyone who is interested
can write to University Faculty for Life, Box 2273, Georgetown Univer-
sity, Washington, DC 20057 for further information and a membership
application.  Incidentally, at the bottom of the application is this
note:

    Some have expressed concern that their pro-life stand might be
    used against them in hiring or promotion.  Sign here if you want
    your name withheld from the membership directory.


When I thought of posting the information about UFL for faculty mem-
bers on the net I realized that students are on the net as well.  I
asked Steve Frezza, the editor of the on line pro-life journal ProLife
News for addresses of student groups.  He suggested mentioning:

American Collegians for Life
P.O. Box 1112
Washington, DC 20013

and the following local and regional groups:

Pennsylvania Intercollegiate Federation for Life (PaIFL)
Write to: PO Box 10664, State College, PA 16805

Texas Students for Life: Contact Norm Richards, orb@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

Ohio Students for Life: Contact Matt Glaros, MGLAROS@JCVAXA.JCU.EDU

Ivy League Students for Life: Contact Greg Wadlinger,
 Gregory.D.Wadlinger@Dartmouth.EDU

Incidentally, anyone who would like to receive ProLife News can re-
quest it from Steve at frezza@cc.pitt.edu

Marty Helgesen
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:47:43 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Predestination or Free Will

Bernice ;

One question : "If Jesus died for ALL sins of ALL persons, at least
theoretically, then how do we deal with the Unpardonable Sin which Jesus
stated that "...It will not be forgiven in the age nor in the age to come"?

Was Jesus' blood unable to forgive that one, or were the perpetrators of it
BEYOND the scope of Jesus' saving work ... bearing in mind that ACTUAL sins
were Imputed to Christ and He was accordingly punished under the Just Wrath
of the Father in the place of those whose sins were so imputed?


Jesse Carnes
From: MKLINE@VDH.BITNET (Michael A. Kline)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Thanks for the Rush.
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:14:50 GMT
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              9 Nov 1992 08:40:14 -0700 from <seh@NEUTRON.PHYSICS.ARIZONA.EDU>

On Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:40:14 -0700 (Steven E. Hoell) said:
>I second Dan's concern. On 9 June 1982 (shortly after Israel invaded Lebanon)
>Pat Robertson said:
>
>     I guarantee you that by the fall of 1982, that there is going to be
>     a judgement on the world, and the ultimate judgement is going to
>     come on the Soviet Union. They are going to be the ones to make
>     military adventures, and they are going to be hit.
>
>While God may have used this man for many good works, the Scriptures are
>clear regarding false prophets. It's a shame that so many Christians
>wanted him for President.

There is also scriptures about how Israel stoned the prophets as well.

A prophet is one who speaks in the Name of the Lord. Pat can say all he
wants under his own name. Even your quote was "*I* guarantee" not "The
*LORD* told me last night that so and so is going to happen."

By your token, if the show was actually recorded on June 10, then you are
a false prophet. I certainly hope no one holds my words to such an account.

Pat was sharing some of the things he THOUGHT the Lord told him just the
other day or so, one of them being that Bush would get re-elected. He
discussed that "We see through a glass darkly.. and other scriptures."
I would rather have him share these things than keep his mouth shut.

Pat is NOT God, and I don't presume to judge him, but he seems to be
VERY careful in this area of trying to put words into God's mouth. He
certainly isn't Bob Tilton or others like him. He certainly has more
integrity than many.

Maks.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:13:55 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Feeding The Poor

I saw this little thing in "Frontlines" from 700 Club. I guess it would
almost be an encouragement to support their feeding program.

"Last year, partner gifts totalling $1.4 million were turned into more
than $4 million by using matching contributions, donated merchandise and
discounted prices to touch a half million people throughout the United
States --- offering holiday hope and cheer. In cities across the United
States, Operation Blessing made it possible for thousands to sit down to
a hot meal, take home a full bag of groceries, or receive a warm blanket
to fight the winter cold."

Refreshing when so many program actually cost up to 80 cents on the dollar
and Operation Blessing is out there gathering up good potatoes that don't
match government specs and passing out millions of pounds of them to the
starving. The center article says they helped more than 59 million people
and many of them here in the United States.

I see a phone number at the end of 804-420-0700 and an address of CBN,
The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc., Virginia Beach, VA. 23465-9989.

Though I'm a member, I am not affiliated nor receive anything from them
except prayer and a good return for my dollars.

Maks.

PS: And if you don't like "700 Club" you can specify "Operation Blessing".
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 06:16:23 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Freedom Withheld

On Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:33:16 GMT (G.J. McCaughan) said:
>In article <CHRISTIA%92110717545056@ASUACAD.BITNET>, "Michael A. Kline"
><MKLINE@VDH.BITNET> writes:
>
>> A junior from South Albany High School stated that he has been forbidden
>> (...)
>
>Careful. The Bible contains war, adultery, attempted gang-rape, actual
>rape, demons, all sorts of things. Just because a book mentions something
>doesn't mean it approves it; I'm pretty sure "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's
>Nest" is not advocating any of the things you describe.
>
Yes. Did you then hear there is an atheist trying to have the Bible removed
from the school library for these very reasons? He is trying to get the
Bible "X rated" so that it will have to be removed from all children.

Maks
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:50:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Cell Group Churches -- contrasted with "normal" churches

In a message of Tue, 3 Nov 1992 22:32:54 GMT
jmrg9881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid) wrote:

> There are two things which I think should be our primary
> objectives: evangelism and discipleship.  Nurture and outreach.  Equipping
> and sending.  "Go and make disciples of all nations, _baptizing them_...
> and _teaching them_...."  Yet evangelism and discipleship are two areas I
> see as being very weak in the church.

I agree. But given the state that we are in I would turn the words
around making it discipleship and evangelism. This is because I think
that most people in our church (and I believe it to be pretty above
average - no self-sufficiency!) are Christians, but not disciples. If
you don't get what I mean you may freely ask.

> Please take what I am about to say in the spirit it is intended, not one of
> criticism, but of challenge: How long has your church had 100 people?  How
> long will it remain at 100?  Will it ever reach 200?  500?  1000?  5000?
> One-third of all churches traditional churches stop growing when they reach
> 50 members.  Another third quit growing when there are 150 members.  A
> little less than a third stop growing when there are 350 members.  Why?
> It's not like they run out of people to reach...

Valid point. But don't you think that we can combine good things from
both concepts? "Building-centered" large meetings once a week (or once a
month?) and "...(what was it)-centered" meetings in addition at least
once a week. Many churches in Germany begin to realize that this is
necessary and start cell-groups (or home groups, as we call them, i.e.
they meet in s.o.'s home) without abolishing the meetings of the whole
church on Sunday mornings. This works quite well!

Wolfgang <><

P.S. If this message gets through, could you please try to tell me so
via BITNET and/or Internet? Thanks!

<><--------<><---------<><--------<><---------<><--------<><---------<><
 Wolfgang Hutter         /  Bitnet:   hutter@dulruu51.bitnet
 Abt. Chem. Physik      /  Internet: hutter@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de
 Universitaet Ulm      /  X.400:    S=hutter;OU=RZ;P=uni-ulm;A=dbp;C=de
 W-7900 Ulm, Germany  /  Tel.:     (49)731-502-2829
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:55:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Whose will is dominant?

Thanks, Tom, that was really good.  I immediately see a brief example:

You are walking down the street and a man comes up to you and takes your
arm, opens your hand and places a bundle of 100 dollar bills in it.  He
closes your hand, says, "This is yours, you have it, it cannot be taken
from you," and moves on.  You are going to argue?  You are going to insist
you want to have a choice?  You are going to tell him you want the right to
choose or reject the gift?  I think not.

Speaking only of salvation, why on earth do you want a choice?  I have
asked this question before, but didn't see any forthcoming answers.  To
those of you who believe that you have the option to choose or reject God,
why do you want it so?  It seems to me that, if you are born again, you
ought to be falling down thankful to God for His sovereign grace that freed
you from the inextricable bondage of sin.

In the final analysis, if the death of Christ only makes possible the
choice for salvation, then the chooser is saving himself.  Why not let God
be sovereign and allow Him to choose whom He will?  Of course, He will
whether you like it or not, but why not quit fighting the idea.

Dan Graham
From: JHART@UMASSD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: The Trinity
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:44:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, North Dartmouth, MA, USA
X-Envelope-to: christia@asuacad.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN::"christia@asuacad.bitnet"
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A

Hi everyone;

  Last week I asked a question on Christia.  For those who may not
remember, Did Jesus, the second person of the Trinity have the Holy
Spirit prior to His baptism.
  The reason I asked this question was that it came up in Bible study
class.  It is important for us as Christians to not only believe but
also be able to give an answer why we believe as we do according to
1 Peter 3:15 ".....Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who
asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."
  The answer I found was in the Gospel of John.
  John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Jesus, while in the flesh, was fully God at all times and because He was
God the Holy Spirit was part of His being.  Therefore there was no need
for Him to receive the Holy Spirit at His baptism.  Why was it necessary
for Jesus to be baptized?  What was the purpose of the Holy Spirit
coming down in the form of a dove?  John 1:31-36 "I myself did not know
him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be
revealed to Isreal.  Vs.32  .....I saw the Spirit come down from heaven
as a dove and remain on him.  I would not have known him, except that
the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you
see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the
Holy Spirit.'  I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."
  The next day John was there again with two of his disciples.  When he
saw Jesus passing by, he said, 'Look, the Lamb of God!'
  The purpose for the Holy Spirit coming down at Jesus' baptism was a
sign to prove He was the Son of God.

    In Christ
    John Hart
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:43:03 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              10 Nov 1992 08:17:52 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

Why are you goin' by the name "Lubosh"?
Is that a nickname?


Jesse
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:36:37 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      ...Well???

St. Jesso,
I honestly believe that from all the posts telling me that he IS,
then something's true here.  Seriously got at least 8 posts confirming
this.... please, guys... I'm hoping you didn't pull the wool over my
eyes....ick ....
ST. Jesso, you got me there!

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 23:40:16 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Thanks for the Rush
              8 Nov 1992 03:48:28 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Your note was too long to reply fully.

Anyhow, if Rush says something, and I don't take NOTHING as gospel, but
if he says something like "The economy is NOT that bad, then I file it,
and I share it with my brothers and sisters." If they go out and over
spend or make some wrong decision, then that is their business. I know
we're not smart, but in the group I'm sure we will get a right answer
sometime down the road from someone. "In the council of many there is great
wisdom."

So back to "The economy is not that bad." Okay, the media, whom others
appear to be defending say "It's the pits. There's no hope. Got to have
Clinton or all is lost." We sit back. We watch. Clinton gets elected and
over night, under George Bush's administration, the whole economy has
been TURNED AROUND and is "poised for recovery." But it's too late, we
hired Clinton who disagrees with most everything Bush has done.

Pat Robertson comes along and says that if the Freedom of Choice passes
that only God will be able to stop the slaughter. He also says that if
this thing like prop 161 and assisted suicide passes, they will be killing
anyone who is expensive to care for, and also mentions AIDS is VERY
expensive and 100% fatal and they will be slated for assisted suicide.

Now, I don't go off an "panic" being as a cow with the herd, but I sit
back, stay informed, and watch. This is one of those things that may
take a bit of time to find out, but time will tell and we shall see.
What if Pat is wrong? He didn't say "Thus says the LORD.....", so it was
just his personal opinion. If I see something try to pass as an assisted
suicide bill, I'll vote against it. That's my choice and opinion.

As far as being judged, I'll count most, if any, as coincidence, unless
for instance, hurricanes were to go up 10 times. If after Freedom of
Choice passes, Florida, Louisiana, Texas and Georgia are all but
wiped out, I may start doing some serious consideration as to if
God might be doing some judgement. If Clinton signs Freedom of Choice
and is hit by a bolt of lightning sitting in the White House I may do
some serious thinking. If an angel appears to what ever Christians are
truly left and tells us we have 8 days to get to Mexico, I may do some
serious thinking. But, in the meantime, I'll just watch, and pray, and
ask the Lord to guide me. He does not attempt to confuse, He will ALWAYS
tell me the right thing to do. He will NEVER leave me. He WILL protect
me.

One of the flock,
Maks.
From: YA67@FERRIS.BITNET (carol nemec)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Whose will is dominant?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:46:05 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I really don't want to get into this discussion, but sometimes
a statement leads me to think of something...as in this from Jesse
to Molly:

Dear Molly Archibold ;

"Ability" is not necessarily concomitant to "Responsibility."
Just because God commands us to obey, does not necessarily mean that He made
us ABLE to do so.  If we are theoretically ABLE to obey God as HE commands us
to do so -- and that is PERFECTLY, you know -- then WHY did He send Christ to
live a perfect life and be a sin substitute?
If we have got "what it takes", then WHY Christ?

Jesse Carnes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about Philippians 4 :13?

I CAN do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me.

It seems to me, that I can do anything if I depend on Christ to
sustain me in what I do.  I don't have what it takes, but through
Christ I do.

Now this gets tricky.  I remember a part of a sermon.  If I
am not trained in a certain area, I shouldn't expect Christ to
protect me...when I choose to do something foolish.  The
example the pastor gave was washing windows on skyscrapers. I
don't know how to use the equipment, etc.  I shouldn't be up
there doing it.  So, is Christ gonna automatically make me
know how to use the equipment? I don't think so.  But if I'm
put in such a situation unexpectedly, I do trust God to care
for me and strengthen me to handle it, even if I should fall.

What I remember was, don't expect God to take care of me when
I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing.  I think of this
when I'm driving over the speed limit :-)  A powerful
deterrent :-)

I have responsibility to obey God, through Christ, I have the
ability to obey.  When I forget Christ and do my own thing,
I can't.  This is when I need to repent.  And, because of Christ,
I'm forgiven.

I guess I rabble too much without saying anything.  I should not
tackle these intellectual discussions...

Carol Nemec
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:00:55 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Pastor Bill where are you?
              11 Nov 1992 16:48:00 -0400 from <STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA>

Dear Bill ;
Apparently a post I sent to Rob came back, so I will have to send anything
to him, via you.

Thanks

Jesse Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:21:43 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              10 Nov 1992 16:58:35 CST from <sweberg@GARFIELD.WES.ARMY.MIL>

Dear Scott ;

My statement on dead men NOT desiring anything was from Ecclesiastes.
Now, let me say about another matter.
Regarding the "ALL"  for whom Christ died, it does not always mean every
body, without exception ... the word "ALL" that is.
In 1 John, it does say that Christ is the propitiation for the WHOLE WORLD.
However, this phrase, whole world, is not always universal.  In the last chap.
of 1 John, it says that we are of God, and the WHOLE lies under the power of
the wicked one.

Well, are Christians under the power of the devil like everyone else?
The Pharisees said, "Look, this is getting us nowhere, the WHOLE WORLD has
gone after him."  Tell me, were Inuits and Allutes and Apaches coming across
the oceans by boats with everybody to see Christ?


Now, as to the saving work of Jesus, a question :  "If Jesus truly was a
sin-substitute who bore the WRATH of the Fatherfor all of the sins of all
those for whom He died, can there be any punishment LEFT for anyone ... no
matter what they do with the Gospel?"

Please do mix the Gospel up with HOW we should RESPOND to the Gospel.
Two horses of completely different colours.
The Gospel is what He did ... the command to believe it and repent is HOW
you and I are to respond to it.

I really want you to respond to the questions I ask, explicitly please, Scott.
These are not "chump-change" quaries.
If Jesus REALLY took all of the punishment for all for whom He died ...  and
assuming you believe those to be ALL without exception ... then, will God
the Father punish TWICE with WRATH for sins that He has already punished
His own Son for?

Further, if Jesus says that "it is the will of my Father that I should lose
NONE of all whom He has GIVEN to me"then, WHY does Jesus LOSE many, assuming
that He died for all without exception?"

Lastly, I want you to deal with the Unpardonable Sin, assuming that you believe
that Jesus died for ALL without exception.
If that sin REALLY is unpardonable, then if Jesus died for All without
exception, did Jesus' blood FAIL or were those perpetrators BEYOND the scope
of Jesus' death?


Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: schweik@cpp.ob.open.de (Martin Schweikert)
Subject: Re: Churches in Germany?
Organization: Private/FRG
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:12:23 GMT

HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET (Wolfgang Hutter) writes:

>The next biggest groups are the Baptists and the Methodists. The
>qualioty of these churches depend mainly on the pastor and there are
>really big differences. But in general they are worth a try.

Not to forget the "Brethren". You'll find three types:

- "Bruedergemeinden" belonging to "Bund evangelisch-freikirchlicher
  Gemeinden" (as the Baptists do)

- "Bruedergemeinden" not belonging to "Bund ..."

- Darbyists, who claim to have no denominational name

They are evangelical, none of them have pastors.

Martin
-- 
M. Schweikert-Oberhausen/Germany-schweik@cpp.ob.open.de /    My life is based on
  <>< LifeNet: martin_schweikert@credo.zer (Joh3:16)   /   two things: Belief in
   Fax: +49 208 85 97 108, Phone: +49 208 85 97 142   /  Christ and Murphy's Law
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU