HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: youngqud@ucs.orst.edu (Dean Youngquist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:32:01 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucs.orst.edu

Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I think) the 
Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship to be driven onto the rocks ?
Was is actually driven into land while using maximum power and while attempting
to travel directly away from land, into the swells and wind ?

-Dean
From: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:08:28 GMT
Reply-To: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway

Just a quick folow up on arranging the watch schedule. We found that we
needed longer sleeping periods then the 3 or 4 hour watch allowed. Being
just 2 of us we used 5 hours on 5 hours off for the night. This allowed
for at least 4-5 hours of
sleep (if lucky) doing the day we relaxed, and the person a wake would
be on the look out. If one is sailing close to land then i would think
that you would have a "tighter" schedule for the day as well. But the 5
hours worked well for us.
-Alice 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:24:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant

In article 080193092154@bwalker.qualcomm.com, wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker) writes:
> 
> 4) The boat has an open transom.  Handy for swimming, great for cockpit
> draining, but I wouldn't have one.  I have a child to keep aboard.  I've
> seen these on a number of boats lately, and I don't understand the purpose.
>  Perhaps somebody can enlighten me.  It seems to me it could be quite
> dangerous in a following sea.

Open transoms are light, and light ends reduce pitching.
(Then why aren't there open bows?  ;-) Open transoms
drain flooded cockpits _fast_.  A net might be sufficient
to keep the child (dog, beercan) aboard.

BILL COURINGTON

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dean@MorningStar.Com (Dean Schell)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:50:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.091031.20124@alcatel.no> vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne) writes:
>
>The news in Norway has been a bit more comprehensive as Shetland is Norway's
>nearest neighbor to the west (approx. 190 n.m.).
>
>The crew was taken off by a Coast Guard helicopter after attempts to secure
>a tow line had failed. Both heavy anchors were deployed without being
>able to hold the ship against the hurricane blowing 75 knots at the time.
>The captain and four other crew were then put back on the tanker as
>another tug arrived immediately before the ship went aground. Again 
>attempts to secure a tow line failed. The last crew member was lifted from the
>ship only seconds before it went aground. The helicopter pilot said the
>rescue operation was very difficult and dangerous as the aft deck was
>going 25 meters up and down in the waves near the shore.

Considering that we live in an age of high-tech communications I think
that it is rather amazing that the wire service that provided the news
to newspapers here in the US didn't report the above details.  In fact
the stories here say that the crew is being investigated because they
abandoned the tanker prior to any attempts to secure a tow line.  I
wonder who has the real story?  Oh, btw in a previous posting I wrote
that the oil was "light crud oil".  Obviously it should have read
"crude", or maybe I had it right the first time 8-|).

-dean
From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 8 Jan 93 08:53:01 GMT

The tanker went aground as has been stated, because of wind and tide, after an
engine failure caused by salt water getting into her fuel. She had been
abandoned because the best estimate of what was going to happen to her was
that she was going to go aground on a small island about half a mile offshore
of the Shetland mainland. The CG will almost always insist on this sort of
action when they deem it necessary. The preservation of life is their main
concern.

As it happens, she missed this small offshore island, and there was no time to
get any of the crew back aboard to attempt to put out anchors, though I
believe it was discussed (according to the CG on the radio yeserday and this
morning).

The tanker is now in the process of breaking up - I think the bow section has
gone and the aft section is aground on a sand/rock foreshore. At the moment
this section apparently shows no sign of breaking up.

It is reported that approximately half of the cargo has leaked from the wreck
(~40000 tonnes? - I believe this is about the same amount as was leaked from
the Exxon Valdes a few years ago in Northern Canada?). This is causing chaos
in the Shetlands. Seabirds, fish and seals are dying. The pasture land and
crofts are being contaminated with a fine spray of oil which is being carried
inshore by the wind. Sheep are getting oil in their coats and the grass and
other crops which the sheep eat are also being cotaminated with a fine
wind-blown spray of oil. The oil can be smelt 30 miles downwind.

Some families have moved at least their children to other parts of the
Shetlands because of fear of carcinogens in the oil spray though a spokesman
on the radio this morning claimed that concentrations of any poisonous
substances were well below approved safe levels (whatever that means).

Fish farmers on the west side of the islands were yesterday attempting to rig
absorbent booms around their pontoons though it sounded very much as if these
would not be effective. The Shetlands Islands Council have dumped 800 tons of
quarried rock in a narrow tidal passage between two of the islands in an
attempt to block the flow of oil should it happen to go that way.

At the moment, the weather is still westerly F8-F10 which is (it is said) at
least restricting the spread of the slick. If the weather changes to (I think)
southerly, the fish farms mentioned above will be seriously threatened.

Apologies for any inaccuracies, but I did that from memory - I think it is
more or less accurate...

Roger Hare.
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:37:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SPSS Inc.

(Lee Wood, 3-6284) writes:

>1.  February Saturday afternoon midwinter race slatting - 11:30 am, everyone has
>motored out to the starting line because there's no wind, the sun is beating
>down and everyone has stripped off fowlies, sweat suits, shirts, boots, etc. and
>some folks are now jumping over the side to swim.  Tiny waves rock the boat
>gently and induce a kind of near-sleep stupor.  Great opportunity to practice
>your aim with water balloons (not encouraged, though - sea animals eat them and
>die) and have auxiliary power drag races.  No kidding, this actually happened a
>few years ago in the Golden Gate YC midwinters.
>

Darn... this midwesterner just arranged a ride for 2 February Saturday
races on the bay in February. Maybe I should forget the foulies and
just bring sunscreen :-)
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Water System
Keywords: pressure pump
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:51:18 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com


Given the wealth of information on this news group, I am hopeful that I can get
an answer to somthing that has bothered me ever since I got my new boat.  My
water pressure pump pumps one stroke every few minutes, all the time.  

When I first got the boat, it did not have an accumulator, so I thought I had
a drip or leak somewhere (although I was not able to find it).  After installing
my accumulator, the symptons remained the same.  I am now convinced it is not 
because of a leak, or any other kind of pressure loss in the line, because with
the accumulator in the system I am able to draw a fair amount of water from the
system before the pump kicks on, and then it runs for a while to build up the
pressure again.

The boat has a Jabsco pump that has the pressure switch built into the pump.  I
believe the reason the pump cycles one stroke every few minutes is that there is
an internal chamber in the pump where the pressure switch senses the pressure.
I surmise that pressure bleeds off into the water tank side of the pump and
causes the pressure in the chamber to drop.  The chamber being small, one stroke
of the pump is enough to restore pressure and cut off the switch.

Does anyone out there know if this is normal, or if there is a problem with my
pump?  Do you think my theory on what is going on is correct, or is there another
explanation?  Is there anything I can do (short of throwing the breaker) to make
it stop?

Jeff Huntington
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 14:17:56 GMT

In article <1iao6tINNql@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Sandra Distefano writes:
>
>	The Coast Guard can board you whenever they want in US coastal 
>	waters. They have special rights which police, FBI don't have.  
>	They don't need "probable cause". They can stop and search you 
>	because they want to search for drugs or safety violations.
>
>Does the Coast Guard Auxiliary have the same privileges? 

Based on what I have read, no.  The CG Auxiliary *assists* other law enforcement
agencies (CG, county, state, etc.) in SAR and conducts courtesy vessel exams and
marine education programs.

> Remainder deleted.

-- 
Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com			| kahuna@attmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:25:53 GMT

steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com writes:

>Where are you renting a Sharpie from?  Our 21' is a little small for
>friends and I love to take folks out in the flats in the Keys,
>absolutely beautiful country.

I'm very much looking forward to spending a week with just my wife and the birds, turtles,
and various reptiles. And of course swamp angels :-(.  I've been to the glades before but only 
got to see them from the roads.  Still, it was magnificent.  I also look forward to my first
visit to the Keys.

To answer your question the company is Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises.  They're in Key Largo, of
all places.  I don't have the number right here but if you need it drop me an e-note and I'll dig it
up for you.  They also have twenty-something footers which draw 10".  They are explicit in
warning potential customers that these are pretty Spartan boats.  No pressure water, no frig,
no stereo, the list of what you don't get goes on.   On the list is a dinghy but since you can
almost beach these boats it's not really an issue.  What they do claim to deliver is a traditional
design boat that sails well, is easy to handle, and goes where only canoes can follow.  

Sp far they've been friendly and easy to deal with. 

cheers,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Various
Date: 4 Jan 1993 15:48:37 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

GPS
---

Here, in the Department of Geophysics at Stanford, we have a GPS expert,
Paul Segall. He is interested in relative movement of the earth and needs
measurements down to about 1mm I believe. Anyway, I shall be monitoring
his GPS course this quarter, and I feel I shall then be much better equipped 
at using GPS. I believe the Coast Guard will be setting up a Differential 
station here in San Francisco Bay in the very near future, and I certainly 
shall not buy one until I've monitored the course and the Diff station is
operational.

CELESTIAL
---------

Just to keep myself honest, I thought I'd also pick up a Celestial video
course. Any recommendations? I had in mind just getting one of the DAVIS
el cheapo plastic things. Any reason to think that they are any less
accurate than the most costly Weems & Plath in the hands of a tyro shooting
sun-shots?

FREEDOM 21 STAYSAIL
-------------------

I got my staysail about a month ago from Pineapple Sails of Alameda, and
had it fitted up with the Harken furling gear in a matter of minutes. My
wife has been on vacation for much of that time, and the winds have been
light enough that we have had the thing out almost every day. Basically,
it increases my sail area by 50% and makes a real difference. Its hung on
the spinnaker halliard which emerges about 3/4 the way up the mast. The
sail is cut flat and almost equitrianfular in shape, so it sets like a
150% genoa on a fractional rig. My spinnaker halliard is quite non-stretchy,
so I'm able to get the luff wire quite tight. Tom Mackay -- another F21 
sailor -- came down from Washington over the holidays and had a sail with us
under almost perfect tesing conditions. With light airs he had the thing
pointing 20 degrees highr with the staysail out. We have used it under all
points of sail, and are looking to sailing wing-and-wing when I get that
whisker pole from Svendson's of Alameda (a serious rigging shop and
chandlery -- makes West marine look a bit mickeymouse).

Gybe Ho!

Francis Muir on FELIX
Port of Redwood City
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: aa0fm@vexcel.com (Zach)
Subject: Re: Clearing brush from rivers
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:13:43 GMT

Which is more dangerous?

1) Caryying around a dangerous obstacle in a river
   (sometimes referred to as a "portage")

2) Climbing out on an obstacle in a river with a chainsaw

If pieces of an obstacle are carried downstream, do they
dissappear or re-group as another hazard? Perhaps they
form smaller strainers. What if you saw off the end of a
tree and that results in freeing it in a large piece?
I think I'll eddy out and wait for the logs (flames) to
pass by. :)

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: Re: open boats .vs. kayaks & RESPONSE
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 11:15:49 CST


Thanks everybody for the feedback on open canoes.

Makes me want to buy one again knowing that some
of those things are possible.  I have rolled an
open canoe several times, and even paddled some
class 3 water with one.  After growing up around
canoes without knowing they could be rolled, etc.,
the thought of mastering (well, at least getting
real good at it) a canoe seems very appealing.  I
could always use it on days when the water isn't
good.

In regards to the Response, I think that it has
too much volume.  It is not a serious playboat.
If you are a good paddler looking for wave surfing,
enders, etc. the crossfire is much better (unless
you're large [>180 lbs]).  It may be a reasonable
boat for a novice/intermediate.  At a reasonable
cost it might be worth it [< $350].

-Doug.
-- 


	-Doug
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: River levels in Chile?
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:06:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

I've been hearing that the Rio Bio Bio is enjoying extremely high flows
this year. My wife and I will be paddling it a couple of weeks and are
curious for accurate information. Also, flow info on the Fuy and Futuleufu
rivers would be welcome.

Thanks,
scott smay
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Re: open boats .vs. kayaks
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date:  9 Jan 93 02:02:27 GMT

	Hell, a raft can do anything a kayak can do, and more!  I've done
endos and pirouettes already.  I probably could hand roll it too if I
just had lots bigger hands!
-dennis
From: doc@wixer.cactus.org (John McClenny)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: River levels in Chile?
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:02:13 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Scott Smay (smay@boi.hp.com) wrote:
: I've been hearing that the Rio Bio Bio is enjoying extremely high flows
: this year. My wife and I will be paddling it a couple of weeks and are
: curious for accurate information. Also, flow info on the Fuy and Futuleufu
: rivers would be welcome.
:
: Thanks,
: scott smay

Try calling Expediciones Chile at (704)488-9082. This is Chris Spelius'
compoany doing really nice Chile trips.   Chris is down in Chile, but
Hannah Swazye (Winner of last year's Ocoee rodeo) should be around and
know the levels.
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: FAQ and ohiopyle falls
Keywords: canoe, kayak, raft, paddle, whitewater
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:28:55 GMT
Organization: Go Big or Go Home

Hmmm.  Either your news software is broken, or something has gone
amiss, because I set the "Followup-To" field to "poster" in order
to funnel comments about the FAQ back to me rather than to the newsgroup.
Anyway, a brief comment:

In article <C0CD4v.K5y@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> marquet@audi.ece.cmu.edu (Marquet Anderson) writes:
>I agree with the jist but disagree about the particulars.
>In particular the Ohiopyle Falls.
>I have run it 3 times, twice no problem and once real ugly.

Having listened to various stories of Ohiopyle Falls around
the Riversport campfire, especially the ones about runs gone wrong,
I tend to think it's exactly the kind of rapid I was trying to
talk about when I wrote about devaluing ratings.  But if you like,
I'll be happy to change it to the Great Falls of the Potomac.

---Rsk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: fhm@well.sf.ca.us (Frank Miles)
Subject: Old and Grey
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:03:06 GMT


I paddled the upper Consumnes today with a big group including Tom Long and
his sons, Don Wood, and Bruce Carl. Beautiful day, about 1000 cfs, fun
rapids, and...
Bruce ran all 3 drops in Old and Grey. This is the gnarliest rapid I've ever
seen anyone run. He got hammered in the first drop, doing an upside-down
backender in the big hydraulic after the main drop, blasting the hole for a
while before flipping and rolling up at the bottom. He cleaned the other 2
drops. It was truly an amazing sight.
Some of the group members were trying to figure out if this has ever been
run before. Has it? If so, at what level, and with what degree(s) of
success? Just curious.
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Ethics and Methods of Brush Clearing
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:51:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a bunch of favorite
rainy season runs, mostly small creeks that can get brush-choked or
log-jammed.  A nice trip yesterday on the San Lorenzo (Santa Cruz CA)
got me thinking.  With a little "trail" maintenance, this would be a
really relaxing run, instead of a minor ballbuster.

What are the ethics of moving logs and clearing brush?  Do fish need
the habitat under a logjam?  Can pruning a willow clump have adverse
effects on riparian habitat?  How about moving a few rocks to create
a clear kayak channel?

Once a person had made the ethical decision to "maintain" a river,
what are the best methods?  Is it better to carry a folding saw along
on a regular run, or is it better to hike in at low water?  How can
a major logjam be cleared without a chainsaw?  I imagine low water
would provide safer conditions, and that Z-rigs could be used to move
very heavy logs.

Overall, I am against the use of dynamite.  River runners are so much
better than they were 20 years ago, it is almost as if we need the
challenge of rocks in the wrong place.  For example, the class IV on
the San Lorenzo has a difficult cross-river move at the bottom, but
wouldn't be as much of a challenge if Glen Wooldridge had dynamited a
convenient dory chute.  Dynamite is justified only on commercially-run
rivers after several boaters have died at a particular spot.
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: open boats .vs. kayaks
Date: 9 Jan 93 04:38:36 GMT
Organization: Ditka Policy Institute

In article <1993Jan8.153927.13278@hemlock.cray.com> dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson) writes:
>I have heard that open boats can do everything
>that a kayak can do.  I am a little skeptical.

No reason to be; it's true: and that includes enders, hands rolls,
hair runs, upstream moves, and everythilng else.

>One guy on the french broad stated that an open
>canoe or C1 could turn faster than a kayak.  I think
>a racer in a Kayak might disagree...

No, as a racer in a kayak, I agree in the case of C-1, and might
even buy it for some OC-1 paddlers.  (Especially after watching
John Kazmiercik in his OC-1 at a New England Cup race this spring;
he's absolutely incredible in slalom.  Blew everyone away.)  The reason
has to do with the greater leverage and reach that a kneeling
paddler can exert.

Let me give you an example.  Consider a K-1 and C-1 coming
downstream and turning for an upstream gate in an eddy.  The K-1
paddler will drive a bit further down into the eddy (the "pocket")
and will make a broader term, trying to keep boat speed up while
turning for the gate.  The C-1 paddler will come in right on the
pole and darn near wrap around it, using raw leverage to jam the
boat through the gate.  (What the K-1 paddler loses in making a slow
turn, the C-1 paddler loses by having to re-accelerate the boat.
Over a typical slalom course, these two tend to balance out.)


				downstream
                                     |
            /               K-1      v                       /     C-1
|----------/---------|       |             |----------------/---|   |
          /                  |                              \       |
         /                   |                               \      |
        |                    |                                \    /
        |                    |                                 \__/ 
         \_                 _/
           \_             _/   
             \_         _/   
               \_______/    
                            

---Rsk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)
Subject: Re: open boats .vs. kayaks
Reply-To: damouth@wrc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:49:48 GMT

In article 13278@hemlock.cray.com, dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson) writes:
>I have heard that open boats can do everything
>that a kayak can do.  I am a little skeptical.
>
>So, has anyone seen the following:
>
>    1)  An open boat pirouette?
>
>    2)  An open boat hands roll?
>
>    3)  An open boat make an upstream move
>        where a similarly skilled kayaker

On the other hand, have you ever seen one of those little squirt toys
a couple of weeks back into a serious wilderness with a month's gear
and food on board?

For an afternoon's entertainment in white water close to your car, your
kayak is the choice.  For loaded wilderness traveling, a high volume
canoe is the choice.  for open water loaded touring, a sea kayak is the
choice.  Any one can be enjoyably used for the other purposes, if that's
all that's available, but why try to pretend it's something it isn't?  
---
/Dave
David E. Damouth
Xerox Webster Research Center
damouth@wrc.xerox.com
voice: 716-422-3186
fax: 716-265-7133