From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dan flipped through an AmigaWorld, and:
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:29:10 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED



In article <1992Dec13.063021.28547@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>2) Wow, that WB 2.0 looks AWFUL.  Granted, I haven't actually used it, but
>from the screen shot, it looks SO primitive!

	Dan, you have formed some awfully strong opinions based on a few
screen shots.  I thought only Marc Barrett did that kind of nonsense.  [No
smiley.]

	Try using the system for a while.  If you are in Amherst sometime,
come on by.

>There doesn't seem to be any commonality among windows.  In Windows, there
>is always the command-button thingee in the top left, and the super-inuitive
>max/min buttons on the top right.

	The Workbench windows do have common features:

		Upper left corner:	"close window" gadget
		Upper right corner:	depth (front/back) gadget
		Left of depth gadget:	iconify gadget
		Lower right corner:	resize gadget
		Entire title bar:	drag gadget
		Entire window:		activate window
		Left mouse button:	select something
		Right mouse button:	use the menu

All of this behavior is standard on all Amiga windows, assuming that the
programmer does not specifically refuse to use it.  Not only that, but the
operating system takes care of managing some of these gadgets automatically.
For example, when a program's window is resized, the program doesn't have to
know about it, and the OS handles the resizing.  This can be quite useful.

>And the Workbench is suppose to be SO SOO GREAT!?  Ha!

	It certainly gets the job done.  Fortunately, since Workbench is
just an ordinary program, the user can run a different program instead if he
or she prefers.  In fact, the Amiga ships with two different user interfaces
(the Workbench and the Shell) which can be run separately or even
simultaneously if desired.  This is not true on some other GUI-oriented
computers.

[Someone wrote:]
>>[On the Amiga, some applications] open their private screens.  

>Wow, this sort of comment REALLY points out some Amiga inadequecies:
>1) Apps have private screens.  This shoots to hell an enforcement of
>commonality between apps.  What a wild blend of software that designs its
>own interface.  Woo woo.

	Dan, it's obvious from that comment that you haven't used Amigas
very much.  Nothing is "shot to hell" because custom screens and their
windows contain THE SAME STANDARD GADGETS as the Workbench.  This is
automatic, thanks to the Amiga programmer's interface called "Intuition,"
and it has been this way since the beginning of Amiga history.  Sure, a
programmer can refuse to use the standard stuff, but that's true on any
computer.

	There are several valid reasons an application should open its
own screen.

(1)	If the application wants a different screen depth (number of
	bitplanes, number of colors) or screen resolution than the
	Workbench.  If the user is using a 4-color, 640x400 Workbench,
	an application can trivially open (for example) a 4096-color,
	320x200 screen, or whatever.

	Having multiple screens with different depths and resolutions is
	great, especially since you can flip through them so easily.  On
	my Amiga, there are 4 ways to flip between screens any time:
	the depth gadget, the keystroke combination (Amiga+m), the mouse
	(hold left button, click right), and by screen name (a little
	control panel pops up with all the screen names, and I click on
	one).  This makes handling multiple screens a breeze.

		{Note:  the PD programs DMouse and Switcher are used
			for the latter 2 methods.  DMouse is on Fish
			Disk 421, and Switcher is in /amiga/util/wb
			on amiga.physik.unizh.ch and its mirror sites.}

	I know of several paint programs that actually open 2 custom
	screens, not just one, and display them simultaneously (overlapping).
	Screen 1 can change resolutions on the fly while painting.  Screen 2
	contains all the buttons and sliders for controlling the program,
	but it never changes resolution.  Thus, the gadgets always look the
	same, no matter what the resolution of the paint screen is.

(2)	To avoid cluttering the Workbench screen.  If you're running 6-8
	applications simultaneously, all of their windows would make the
	Workbench very crowded.  There are several different solutions to
	this:  iconifying windows (like X does), multiple screens (like the
	Amiga), hiding and unhiding sets of windows (like the Mac's
	Multifinder), and so on, each with different advantages and
	disadvantages.

(3)	If the programmer wants to do something non-standard.  On *all*
	brands of computer, there are always programmers who want to do
	things their own way, rather than the system way.  Working on a
	custom screen is one way to do this safely, without trashing the
	Workbench for one's own purposes.

Really, Mr. Stephenson, I'm disappointed that you have let a few screen
shots influence your opinion so much, when you have never even used the
system.  That is not a very scientific way to make decisions.

                                                        Dan

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| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy