From: sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Returning to secular music
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:50:51 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: antares.aero.org

In article <1g41taINNgrn@coral.bucknell.edu> amarante@bucknell.edu (gregory amarante `94) writes:
>In article <1g288jINNalp@transfer.stratus.com>, markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>|> In article <1g0ksmINNnnf@coral.bucknell.edu> amarante@bucknell.edu (gregory amarante `94) writes:
>|> >
>|> >1.  God doesn't need the Bible to prove a point.  We all possess the word of God,
>|> >written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit and we are just as capable of writing 
>|> >about God and Jesus as Paul or Luke, or John.
>|> 
>|> Ugh!  You've succeeded in convincing me to unsubscribe to this group.
>|> Congratulations.  You're blasphemy has finally done it.
>
>Sorry.
>
>|> 
>|> >2.  The Spirit gives us discernment.  If there is something wrong with the music
>|> >we are listening to then the Spirit will let us know, but we must be willing to
>|> >accept what the Spirit says and not convince ourselves of the wrong thing.  Be
>|> >faithful and listen.
>|> 
>|> Yes, the Spirit does give us discernment, if we ask for it and IF we have
>|> the Holy Spirit, which is only given when one is born again.
>|> 
>
>I do and I am
>
>|> >3.  God calls us to learn about Himself in many different ways, not just the
>|> >Bible, but the Bible is a great book to learn from.
>|> 
>|> "A great book to learn from".  The Bible is THE word of God (period). 
>
>I agree.
>
>|> It is our ONLY source of authority.
>
>I disagree.
>
>|> 
>|> >4.  The law is now on our hearts, let us live for and proclaim the truth that the
>|> >Spirit has placed there.  Be it in music, prayers, or writing.
>|> 
>|> The law is on our hearts??  What's that mean?  
>
>Read Paul.
>
>|> >
>|> >
>|> >All that I write comes exactly from the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit that John,
>|> >Paul, Mark, Luke, Mattew, and whoever else wrote in the Bible had.
>|> >Believe in Him and you will begin to understand the greatest secrets.
>|> >
>|> >						Your seelking brother,
>|> >							Greg.
>|> >
>|> 
>|> Greg, I don't mean to be unkind, but I will say that what you have just
>|> written falls far away from even the basics or fundamentals of the
>
>I do not think so.  The Bible has become twisted, interpreted wrongly by men.
>Your "fundamentals" may be just that.
>
>|> faith...one tenant of which is that the Bible is the infallible and
>|> inerrant and divinely given word of God.  Without such a belief, one
>|> can't really have base his/her faith on anything. This is something that
>|> is absolutely essential. 
>
>I agree...sorry if I was misunderstood.
>
>|> I don't know where you have been taught or
>|> whether you are saved or not, but instead of giving in to that urge
>|> to be defensive and blast me (which I can understand given what I wrote),
>|> why not look to what the bible says and pray for discernment in this
>|> area.  Assume I'm right in this (even if you don't believe I am) and seek
>|> for the truth.  I hope you find it.
>
>I honestly will.  Pray for me.  I am leaving this news group, as well for it is
>too difficult to be understood and to understand.  I ask the forgiveness of those
>I have offended and pray that understanding may come from all this.  As for me...
>from now on I must claim to know nothing, but Christ crucified.
>Goodbye.
>
>Speechless,
>Greg.

Wait a sec here! Wait just one minute here! All Greg did was quote the
Bible. Mark obviously hasn't read his all that thoroughly yet (new
Christian perhaps?). This is no reason for either to leave the group!
Screaming "blasphemy" at someone for having read scripture and quoted it
on the net is so far afield that I think it's obvious to everyone that
one ought to seriously consider each others points of view without resorting
to name calling. Name calling is just a method of detracting from the
point being presented, and people tend to do it as a last resort when they
are confronted with something they don't like, but that they don't have
the intellectual or educational tools to approach with some degree of
reasonable discourse.
`
That said, the Bible clearly states, and not just the Paulian writings,
that the Spirit will continue to lead us into revelation and truth, that
the law is written upon our hearts. It is somewhat ludicrous to assume that
somehow Jesus has changed, when the Bible says that Jesus is the same yesterday,
today, and forever. God has spoken to man through revelation since the
beginning of creation, and much more so under the power and authority of the
Holy Spirit. Jesus said that once he was gone He would send the Spirit who
would teach us all things. "No longer will you need man to teach you, but
the Spirit will teach you all things". This is why it's my personal opinion that
this whole extreme dependence on clergy to hand down scripture to us is
out of balance (Man in the place of God..). Anyways, both the old and new
testaments say that the Messiah will write the law on our hearts. The old
testament prophecies of the Messiah say that when he establishes his kingdom
(which he has done at this point) that the Law will be written on our hearts.
Done deal. He said when the Spirit came that this would be accomplished -
once He was taken up into heaven. Also, of course, Paul clearly states that
the Law is now written upon our hearts. And the entire new testament speaks
of the Revelation of the Holy spirit in both big and small events in the
lives of Christians. Nowhere in the Bible is there a prediction or statement
that the revelation of the Holy Spirit would suddenly stop and we'd be left
alone on this earth.

Furthermore, none of us could even BECOME Christians without personal revelation
of the Holy Spirit upon our hearts.

Ok. so instead of mindlessly screeching "heretic!" at any person that
quotes a scripture that we haven't gotten around to reading yet, how about
just asking the person "gee, why do you think that?" Novel idea, eh?

AND just because someone calls you heretic is no reason to be discouraged!
Hey, there are worse things to be called. Jesus was called heretic again
and again by the religious establishment.

To all of us let me remind us (myself included) NOT to be so overloy
oops - overly dependent on pastor so and so to hand down scripture
to us, all filtered through his agenda and biases, that we fail to
read scripture clearly. I knew a pastor who was a deeply angry man because
of childhood issues he had never dealt with. He read every single scripture
with an angry tone and made every scripture seem like a threat! People who
followed him instead of Christ also interpreted scripture in anger. Here
were all these people running around screaming scripture at each other
acting out this pastors anger at his mother because the pastor was the
big cheese and everyone else reacted to him and his issues rather than
relying on the Holy Spirit and making the effort to read clearlyh and
ask God for revelation.

Anyways, may we all read our Bibles rather than just scream about them.


                           --Stacey
(I realize I'm behind in my news reading, but I found the tone of this
discussion truly distasteful and indicative of what's sick in the body
of Christ. Really folks!)


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian