From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christians at Work in Oregon
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:03:39 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada




A note on homosexuality and mainstream Churches in Canada:

I have been following with interest the dialogue between Jack Carroll and
assorted Christians on what kind of peace is possible between homosexuals
and Christians, including liberal Christians. 

I just thought I'd add a comment on what is happening in Canada WRT this
issue. 

Canada, as you probably know, is a country in which the word "liberal"
is not a pejorative. The United Church of Canada, formed in the 20's or 30's
as a union of the national Methodist and Presbyterian churches, has been on the
cutting edge of Christian "liberalness" around here for a long time. I believe
it is the largest Protestant denomination in Canada. 

However - in the past few years, observers of the religious scene in Canada
have been getting an interesting look at what "liberal" means in practise. 
The UCC decision-makers are in general a more educated lot than their 
flock, and a couple of years ago they introduced a motion at the national
convention to allow admitted homosexuals to be ordained ministers. The church
has "tolerated" homosexuality officially for a while, (I'm afraid I don't
know details, only the general story) but the reaction in this most
liberal of churches to this motion has been immediate and strong.

I don't know statistics, but I know that the church is really being chewed
up internally over this one. Whole congregations have declared independence
and broken with the UCC over this one issue. The grass-roots of the church
(read: the active members) is quite upset that the national convention
is "forcing this down their throats."  All the standard anti-homosexual
propaganda arguments are trotted out, including Leviticus (in this church
that denies Biblical inerrancy), charges that homosexuals are "child-
molesters," etc.

Interestingly, even the mellow majority of quasi-active members do not
seem happy about this new development. Their main point seems to be that
they do not want homosexuals as ministers because ministers are supposed
to be an example to their children. These are the people who
would never "discriminate" against homosexuals...but methinks they
are revealing their true colours now...deep down, they still think
that homosexuality is immoral, anti-God, etc.  Puritan cultural
programming dies hard in North America. Even up here among the socialists
and pinkos. 

It seems to me that homosexual fear of Christians is pretty much justified.
Despite all the protestations of openness and tolerance, when push
comes to shove, they still think homosexuality is wrong, somehow.

Note: a certain element of the church is pushing FOR the adoption of this
motion, however I think this movement is pretty much restricted to the
theologically sophisticated lay-ministers, ministers, educated laypeople,
etc.   The folks in the cheap seats don't want gay ministers, much as they
"respect their right to thei sexual orientation, etc."

Anybody know more about this? I think it sheds a little light on the true
state of affairs in this country. If all these liberal Canadians are this
intolerant, I am sure that things can't be much better in the U.S.,
where (it seems) neo-fascism is alive and well. Any country that would
elect Ronald Reagan gives me the willies.  (Canadians may elect the most
incompetent bumblers alive to high public office, but fascism is definitely
uncool up here. Ostensibly.)

Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca

"Indeed, you were kicked off a cliff when you were born, and it's no
use clinging to the rocks tumbling with you."  Alan Watts
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism