HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: njs@WATSON.IBM.COM ("Nicholas J. Simicich")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: SF for juveniles
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:00:56 GMT
Reply-To: Nick Simicich <njs@watson.ibm.com>

>  Date: 25 Nov 92 19:55:34 GMT
>  From: ca572@cleveland.freenet.edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
>
>  List of Heinlien juveniles:

[......]

>  _Starship Troopers_ was meant to be part of the series (published by
>  Scribners from 1947-58) but the publisher blew their collective tops when
>  the manuscript was turned in ("Flogging, as a positive social force, in a
>  children's book!?"), so it was published as a grown-up novel.

Interestingly enough, it was in my grade school libraryin, oh, 1962?.
I guess that by then they thought of Heinlein as a juvenile writer.
First Heinlein I ever read, although I didn't develop my obsession
until I read "Have Space Suit, Will Travel".

Nick Simicich (njs@watson.ibm.com) -SSI AOWI #3958, HSA #318, NAUI #14065
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Falcon_ and Emma Bull
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <168BE10F4.REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:

[hated BONE DANCE, loved FALCON]

Well, isn't it nice how tastes do differ.  (Or, "it's a good thing we
don't have all the same tastes, or think what an oatmeal shortage there
would be!"

I couldn't even _finish_ FALCON.  I got through about three-quarters of
it, glanced at the end, and said, The hell with it.  

But I was able to read BONE DANCE, not once, but twice.  (Though it takes
a really _massive_ "willing suspension of disbelief" for me to read a
story in which voodoo works....)

And WAR FOR THE OAKS?  Oh, forty or fifty times read by now.  I haven't
read the LIAVEK stuff because I can't find the earlier volumes and don't
like to come in in the middle.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: emstewar@unix.amherst.edu (EMILY MAUREEN STEWART)
Subject: Re: Is The _wing Commander_ Book For Real?
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:41:39 GMT

I just think it's a sad state of affairs when a book so obviously shallow
as _Wing Commander_ is more worth an author's time (that is, it will make
more money) than a follow-up to an established, popular series, or even a
first book in a new series.  It's too bad that she can't concentrate her
creativity on quality fiction.

So, since I can no longer read Lackey, McCafferey, or Anthony, will anyone
who reads a good book by an obscure author please email me or post your
opinion on the net?  I want to do my part to support authors (even if it is
a measly fifty cents) who _are_ writing good books.  Thanks and Merry
Christmas.

Emily Stewart
VMS: emstewart@amherst.edu
unix: estewart@amhux3.amherst.edu
Reality is for people who lack imagination
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jaimiep@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Jaimie Polson)
Subject: good book for Christmas present
Organization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:15:23 GMT

I want to get my friend, who reads a lot of science fiction and fantasy
a book for christmas. Can anyone suggest a good sf that he may not have read?
He has definitely read all the old masters - like asimov, heinlan (sp?),
clarke etc. Also O.S. Card tad williams, ... BUT any suggestions will be
welcome. Thankyou

Jaimie Polson

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pwg25888@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Patrick W. Grady)
Subject: Re: Eco-Catastrophe Novel Request
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:52:47 GMT

bucknerb@bnr.ca (Brent Buckner) writes:

>In article <01GSCLYK9S1W0056RV@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU> REYNOLDS@HOPE.CIT.HOPE.EDU ("That ended; so also may this") writes:
>>A friend of mine who is not on the list has found that a book she's used for
>>a course (first-year college) has gone out of print--NATURE'S END by
>>Streiber and Kunetka.
>>
>>Can anyone recommend a replacement--the idea is that the eco-catastrophe (does
>>not have to be the end of the world) is precipitated by a continuation or
>>extension of current trends (global warming, etc.).
>>

>"The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner

>-- 
>at Bell-Northern Research
>voice:        (613) 765-2739
>Canada Post:  P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7
>I do not claim that BNR holds these views.  

Also what about _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and
Michael Flynn.  Concerns global warming.

--


-- 
Patrick Grady               |  I express my opinion,
                            |  I express your opinion
email: p-grady2@uiuc.edu    |  for large sums of money.
From: mp17@RULHP1.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Simon Baas)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:21:50 GMT

I would buy *any* book from the following authors:
   Raymond E. Feist (single and co-authored)
   Janny Wurts (single and co-authored)
   Dennis L. McKiernan
   Tom Deitz

Simon.
(mp17@rulhp2.LeidenUniv.nl, if that fails try baas@rulwia.leidenuniv.nl)
From: lizi@soda.berkeley.edu (Cosma Shalizi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Date: 12 Dec 92 04:16:52 GMT
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (Berkeley Tentacle)
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <guay.724099614@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>Hi; 
>Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't     
>mainstream commercial SF.
   Lem. Ellison. Avram Davidson. Ballard, but he keeps writing essentially
one book over & over again - _Hello America_ is a nice version. Wolfe.
Vance. If you allow fantasy, Cabel, Dunsany, Clark Ashton Smith, Ernest
Bramah and Fletcher Pratt. If you're loose on the definition, Luian of
Samosata, Homer and _Gilgamesh_.
-- 
"I'd love to hold you/ I'd love to kiss you/ I ain't got time for that now."
-Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
"Death needs Time for what it kills to grow in."
-William S. Burroughs, "Ah Pook is Here"
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Ending of Tigana question *spoilers*
Keywords: tigana
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:27:25 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <Bz9vrF.99s@javelin.sim.es.com>, krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers) writes:
|> I just finished Tigana.  I'd never heard of Kay before as I'm only an
|> infrequent sf or f reader.  Anyway, I picked it up on a whim the other
|> day.  It was really good - far above the norm IMO.

Yep, good summation.

|> I have a question about the very last paragraph of the book.  Sandre,
|> Baerd and Devin see a Riselka (sp?) at the same time.  I knew three
|> men meeting one at the same time had some significance but I forgot
|> what it was and couldn't find it again in the book.  It went something
|> like: "One will find his path, one will die,...".  Can anyone tell me
|> what three things happen?

Blast, I can't remember the third either.
Of course the meaning is obvious, the old duke/prince is going to die,
our vacillating hero is going to figure out what he really wants,
and ????

|> Also, are Kay's other works as good?  I'm not much of a sophisticated
|> reader but I really thought Tigana was a superior book.  Your milage
|> will likely vary...

Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
[Along with David Brin].

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey)
Subject: Re: LENSMAN?
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
	<522@blue.cis.pitt.edu> <1gapseINNhnh@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<If_csrq00gpIIPZ4Jl@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:23:25 GMT

Scott Drellishak posted:

   > What about (from memory): "cool your jets", "hipe!", "zwilnik", "space
   > louse", [...]  *These* are examples of
   really bad "futuristic" jargon. 

and Andrew Plotkin replied:

   "Chill out," "mondo!", "hacker", "scuzzbucket".

   I've heard each of those, from either myself or my friends, with no
   sense of "silliness" at all. And god only knows what I'll be saying in
   five years. Doc Smith's jargon can't *possibly* be any sillier than real
   life.

Oh?  How about Doc Smith's immortal, incomprehensible "You talk like a man
with a paper nose"?


Elizabeth Willey
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: How to beat AGRIPPA (was Re: Gibson, electronic books)
Date: 10 Dec 92 19:31:46 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <9212091404.AA07691@rutgers.edu> MAYFLON@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Geoff Knobl) writes:
>The computer book, AGRIPPA, is sold for $500 to $4500 in a limited edition.
>Only 400 are being produced.  It is about someone's memories as he looks
>at an old photo album he finds.  I do not know if the pictures show up
>on the screen or not but for the price, I would hope so.  The text scrolls
>by at a fixed rate and once you start it, YOU CANNOT STOP IT!  Or at
>least this is what Gibson, and Penn Jullet (sp?) claim.  Once you have
>read it, a virus destroys the work, leaving it only in your memory.

A friend of mine came up with a way to beat AGRIPPA at its own game,
without resorting to passwords. You don't even need to be able to
program a computer.

What you do is point a video camera at the computer screen and *record
on videotape* all the text that scrolls on your computer screen. Then
you can play the tape on a four-head VCR, and by continuosly stopping
it, you can copy down all the text of AGRIPPA.

If anyone decides to do this, they might even be willing to provide the
rest of us with copies of the text....


-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: Gibson, electronic books
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:17:23 GMT

MAYFLON@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Geoff Knobl) writes:

>The computer book, AGRIPPA, is sold for $500 to $4500 in a limited edition.
>Only 400 are being produced.  It is about someone's memories as he looks
>at an old photo album he finds.  I do not know if the pictures show up
>on the screen or not but for the price, I would hope so.  The text scrolls
>by at a fixed rate and once you start it, YOU CANNOT STOP IT!  Or at
>least this is what Gibson, and Penn Jullet (sp?) claim.  Once you have
>read it, a virus destroys the work, leaving it only in your memory.

	I expected Gibson (who seems to have at least some computer sense)
	to realize what utter foolishness this whole AGRIPPA thing is.
	First off, there is no such thing as an uncrackable program.  Any
	program that will boot, can be cracked.  Period.  Secondly, they
	had the genius stroke of reading the damn thing on NATIONAL RADIO,
	but I'm sure that everyone respected Gibson's artistic spirit to
	such a degree that no one even thought of taping the thing, no no
	heaven forbid!  Lastly, you could simply videotape the silly piece
	of "art" as it scrolled past, for your continued viewing pleasure 
	at a later date.  I think that Gibson must realize at least some of
	the above problems, but it is posts just like this one that he is 
	really hoping to provoke.  To "force the worldnet computer counter-
	culture into rising up to smash his dream", or something to that  
	effect.  Who knows how his little mind is working, but he is definitely
	pulling our shanks with this one.  Oh the games we play...

		Seth Killian

>What a JERK!  What a artsy-fartsy thing to do.  I find it as elegant and
>as subtle as a sledge hammer and a complete ripoff!  I for one, will
>never spend my money on such a thing but rather buy lotsa good food, some
>sci-fi and fantasy REAL books, and some audio equipment and CDs.  In
>other words, there are much better places to put your money than into some
>guy who's probably laughing at those who buy it.  Actually, since there
>are only 400 copies, he's not trying to rip the public off but he walks
>a thin line.

>This password business is a possibility, but only if Gibson lied to the
>reporter I heard.  Of course, he didn't lie only if you don't read
>the book before you have the password.  I'd trust myself more to trans-
>fer the whole thing by a capture program or making copies with hardware
>first.

>Geoff Knobl
>Mayflon@VTVM1.cc.vt.edu
>"Hand me that piano!"
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein purchase?
Date: 12 Dec 92 10:21:07 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Dec9.201328.3714@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>, puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
> tdober@llnl.gov (TDO) writes:
> 
>>I strongly agree with the criticisms of _Friday_. It's a recurring motif in
>>many of Heinlein's books that a strong, intelligent, capable woman's
>>destiny and heart's desire is to settle down with some Big Strong Man and
>>become his baby-factory. (In fact, Lazarus Long even refers to one of his
>>daughters as being "Even more of a natural baby factory than her mother".
>>*Yech*!!!!) He doesn't stereotype his male characters with anywhere *near*
>>the same frequency as his female characters.
> 
> Oh, pooh!
> 
> Heinlein makes it _very_ clear that a man's job is to protect wife and
> family. In other words, 'male' and 'female' are different sexes. That, as
> far as programming a computer, building a house, or fighting had-to-hand
> are concerned, men and women are pretty much the same critter. But when
> it comes to keeping the species going, that they have very different roles.
> An opinion which Darwin shared, as i understand it! 8-)
> 
> 'course, if'n you don't wanna keep the species, going, don't bother! The
> rest of us will struggle along without your genotype!
> 

Well, IMHO, Heinlein had serious problems with his portrayal of women,
most of them seem relatively interchangeable, even Friday was somewhat
like Podkayne of Mars.  
And as for keeping the species going, I have two sons.  They should
be enough to preserve my genotype.

Sue

> jim p.
> -- 
> Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov     
> Madison,AL (205)461-4922  
> i need to ask myself.....
> ***********         Would I rather be right, or happy?         ***********
From: higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Frozen sf writers (was Re:  Forward to Foundation (Asimov) )
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:22:38 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

In article <105243@bu.edu>, mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein) writes:
> In article <alien.01ur@acheron.amigans.gen.nz> alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) writes:
>>
>>Something I've often wondered about : Does anyone know if any SF writers
>>have been frozen after their deaths? It sounds like the sort of thing an
>>SF writer would want, but I've never heard of any examples.
>
> For more on why Heinlein didn't want to be frozen, check _Requiem_ ed.
> by Yoji Kondo and _Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition_ by
> Ed Regis. There's a passage in the second book when a group of
> cryogenists are freezing an anonymous fellow named Bob, and they hear
> over the radio that the other Bob, Heinlein, has died. This was not fiction.

I'd better not use names here...

A certain prominent cryonics advocate was circulating a petition among
science fiction fans at the Austin "NASFiC" convention in 1985.  The
petition urged Heinlein to have his head sawn off and frozen after
death.  He argued (you've probably heard this before) that preserving
the brain tissue is very feasible now, and that there is a strong
likelihood that revival techniques can be developed someday.  Given
this, he reasoned, it would be criminal to deprive future generations
of the great intellects of our time.   And of course the greatest
intellect he could think of to perserve was Heinlein's.

A certain prominent fannish biochemist, when he heard of this effort, 
threatened to circulate *another* petition, urging Heinlein to have
his head sawn off and frozen immediately, before any more novels like
*The Number of the Beast* could be written.

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | "Enough marshmallows
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | will kill you 
Bitnet:           HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET  | if properly placed."
Internet:       HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV  | --John Alexander, leader of
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | "disabling technologies"
 [*Aviation Week*, 7 Dec 1992, p. 50]  | research, Los Alamos
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: blum@medici.ils.nwu.edu (Dan Blum)
Subject: Re: The Most Influential and "the Best" Fantasy
Reply-To: blum@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:23:24 GMT

Bret Jolly (troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
> In article <92343.21120532BSFJC@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> 32BSFJC@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (TERRY D. BARKLEY) writes:

> * I'll admit that I haven't read a direct translation of "1001", just
> * remember the stories from childhood.  I used it as an example mainly
> * because of the movie; it was on the top of my head, so to speak.

>    A lit major, writing a thesis on fantasy, knows the 1001 nights
> only from a movie and from a bowdlerized and disneyfied children's
> version.  I'm boggled.  It is also clear from a paragraph of more than
> 400 words in the post I'm citing, that lit majors no longer have to
> know how to write.

> * Point of fact, the Norse myths were told by warriors to help
> * prop up their own exploits and were never really meant as religious
> * canon.  For an example of this type of braggadocio read "Beowulf."

>    This "point of fact" is nonsense.  And the lit major has apparently
> never read Beowulf.  (If he has, then he can't read very well.)  How
> is it "braggadacio" and propping up of the heros' exploits when the
> ultimate futility of those exploits and of the heroic code is made
> clear in the poem?  Maybe he saw the movie.
Actually, _Beowulf_ is something of a mixture of older and newer
traditions, but you're right - it certainly is not braggadocio.  In
addition, it most certainly has religious content, and IT ISN'T NORSE!
If Barkley wants an example closer to his misguided view, he should
look at the Finnsburh Fragment.  That's not Norse either, and the tone
(what one can see of it, that is) is not exactly in line with this
"braggadocio" nonsense, but it's closer to it that that of _Beowulf_
(it's considerably older, which is one likely reason for this).  There
are no published translations which are really up to snuff, but
Michael Alexander's is the only one that should be assiduously
avoided.  Not that this is likely to help.  Lit majors... I'm so glad
I got back into computer science.

--
________________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum           Institute for the Learning Sciences   Room 327
blum@ils.nwu.edu   1890 Maple Ave., Evanston, IL 60201   708-467-2306

"I fingered the butt of my .45, fighting the urge to pistol-whip Plato."
________________________________________________________________________
From: pjhst10+@pitt.edu (Peter   J Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Agrippa check out alt.something or other.cyber
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:17:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

There have been alot of posts lately talking about W Gibson's
electronic book.  If you want alot more information than you
might be able to get here, check out alt.fan.cyber  I think
that that is the name of the group.  There has been an ongoing
discussion about Agrippa for a long tome.

Also there is a newsfgroup, alt.fan.tolkein  for people that
want to discuss elves in tolkein's literature.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers)
Subject: Re: Why Heinlein's folk want babies
Organization: none
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:49:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.052539.19090@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
>home, too.  No, the people you recruit for your colony expedition are those
>who are determined to subsist and breed, again and again!  Many generations
>later, when the new world is ready to start colonies of their own, guess

Here we have a classic failure of vision. Ask yourself this, if you're the
product of a totally advanced civilisation that can afford the massive 
and sundry investments, and is possessed of the willpower, to "colonize"
planets, then why the hell do you have to wait *nine* months for your
'workers' to emerge. I'm sure vatgrown would be faster, cheper and altogether
cleaner. Not to mention the greater social control allowed.

In fact, if you're that advanced, why will you actually *need* human workers
in vast numbers?

Trying to justify Heinlein's psychological abnormalities seems to me a losing
proposition.
-- 
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mike@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:59:42 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1gt2boINN68l@transfer.stratus.com>  
lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:
>     Ursula K. Le Guin
>     Jane Yolen (other than children's books)
>     Pat Murphy
>     Brenda Clough
>     Susan Palwick
>     Laura Mixon
>     Steven Gould
>     Emma Bull
>     Kate Wilhelm
>     Harlan Ellison
> 
> In many ways, this is a hard list for me to write.  I tend to  
prefer
> short fiction, and as we subscribe to most of the major
> magazines, we get most short fiction already.  My husband Jim is
> a prolific book buyer, and buys many new releases.  But these are
> people he probably wouldn't buy that I would.   If he does not
> post an answer to this, I'd also add Silverberg, Card, Bear and
> Benford since Jim buys them pretty religiously and I like most
> of their books.

I should also add:

Michael Bishop
Kim Stanley Robinson
Bruce Sterling
Mike Resnick
Jack Vance

Poul Anderson is usually on the list, though I tend to look the
book over first, and don't always buy it.  The same for
Delany.

John Barnes and Alexander Jablokov will probably move onto the
list if they continue to do well.

Roger Zelazny used to be on the list.  Too many Amber books
changed that.  
--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Subject: Re: Tad Williams
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:54:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.182252.28896@europa.asd.contel.com> bulleri@chopin.eng.gtefsd.com (Chris Bulleri) writes:
>
>Ok, I really hate to ask this but I haven't heard anything
>about his new book in a while, last I heard it was supposed
>to come out in Oct.  I haven't seen it yet.  Could someone
>let me know what the release date is now.
>
>Yep, I know that Piers Anthony co-wrote it :-) since Tad was
>killed in a freak gardening accident. :-) :-)
>
>Chris

Actually, I had heard that he was electrocuted in his hot tub along with
five "actresses" by a faulty electrical appliance.

8*}
Chris Miller