HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: MYOUNG@UCONNVM.BITNET (M. Young)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: re: education and virtual reality
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:57:44 GMT
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I disagree with STANKULI@UWF when he states that VR is just for "low level"
sensory information.  Recent ideas in cognitive psychology suggest that
ALL learning (including higher level conceptual understanding) is
"situated" in perceptual learning and experience.  Consider the "mental
models" used by experts when solving physics problems.  They easily use
representations such as pendula and springs to solve a variety of
problems.  Development of these models can be facilitated with allowing
students to "construct" models in VR environments as they now construct
programs.

Mike

MICHAEL YOUNG, PH.D.             INTERNET:MYOUNG@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU
U-4, 249 GLENBROOK RD            BITNET: MYOUNG@UCONNVM
STORRS, CT 06269-2004            APPLELINK: YOUNG.MIKE
(203) 486-0182                   AM. ONLINE: MIKE YOUNG
FAX: (203) 486-0210
It's easy to be a humorist when you have
the whole government working for you -- Wil Rogers
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:33:55 EST
From:         "Daniel L. MacIsaac" <danmac@physics.purdue.edu>
Subject:      re: education and virtual reality

>>
>>  From:         "M. Young" <MYOUNG@UCONNVM.BITNET>
>>
>>  I disagree with STANKULI@UWF when he states that VR is just for
>>  "low level" sensory information.  Recent ideas in cognitive psychology
>>  suggest that ALL learning (including higher level conceptual
>>  understanding) is "situated" in perceptual learning and experience.
>>
I believe this assertation runs contrary to much of the current thought in
the philosophy of science (and of science education).  While people are thought
to learn starting from the concrete and moving to the abstract (eg Piagetian
psychogenesis); "situating" all learning in perceptual learning and experience
seems quite positivistic or empiricist.  There are serious counter arguments
to this position.

Not that I'd ever disagree with cognitive psychology, of course :^).

"Indeed, from childhood we have become familiar with the appearance of physical
equations in non-Cartesian systems, such as polar coordinates, and in non-
inertial systems, such as rotating coordinates..."
                        - Steven Weinberg, Gravitation & Cosmology, p 92
Dan MacIsaac, Grad student in Physics & Science Ed, danmac@physics.purdue.edu


>>
>>    Consider the "mental models" used by experts when solving physics
>>    problems.
>>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:32:33 EST
From:         f_rushingrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Subject:      re: HYpercard and Student Assistants--

Greeting from Nacogdoches--

In responce to recent postings about HC and AV training--

I was having a problem with my student assistants (SA) properly checking
equipment in and out.  We were using a sign out sheet for the users and an
index card file .  The SAs' were getting pretty lazy about keeping up.

I put a MAC in their office last year.  I placed it there so that they
could become familiar with the Mac's operation and applications before we
put in a Lab which they would provide assistance in.  That worked
fine--they all enjoied "fooling around" with it.

I designed a simple HC stack to automate equipment check in/out.  Because
the SA enjoied using the Mac, the stack's use was quickly integrated into
their daily routine.  Many (not all...) of the equipment problems were
solved.
I'd be happy to send anyone a copy-- its not pretty, but it works.  Plans
are to dress it up and make a few minor changes not that the SA's have used
for a few semesters.

On a similar note--I also installed JAM software's Appointment Diary and
Smart Alarms--network version.  Their daily To Do lists and any scheduled
events are recorded there.  Because of its network features, both offices
(mine and theirs) can add items to each office's calendars.  This works
VERY well for scheduling.

Relating to the thread of the messages-- I feel that because of the SA's
interest in the MAC, they integrated it into their daily operation of the
facilities.  Use of a training stack for AV equipment, office procedures,
ect is a GREAT idea.  I'd like for all of us who are interested to keep in
touch--


                                Ron Rushing
                             --Supervisor--
Education Media Center          Stephen F. Austin State University
PO Box 6172                           Nacogdoches, TX  75962
409) 568-1424                       409) 568-1475 (FAX)
                    f_rushingrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
From: sackman@plains.nodak.edu (Gleason Sackman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: NEW LIST: ADV-ELI LATEST ADVANCES ON ELECTRIC ENGINEERING (fwd)
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:47:04 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 22:38:31 CST
From: Francisco Javier Fernandez M <FFERNAND@utfsm.bitnet>
To: Multiple recipients of list NEW-LIST <NEW-LIST@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject: NEW LIST: ADV-ELI LATEST ADVANCES ON ELECTRIC ENGINEERING

ADV-ELI on LISTSERV@UTFSM  LATEST ADVANCES ON ELECTRIC ENGINEERING

   ADV-ELI is a list to divulge the latest advances on electric
   engineering.

   In this list you can find, comment, ask and broadcast information
   about the leading age of electric eng.  The main purpose of ADV-ELI
   is tranforming into a powerfull tool for all the people who work on
   the develop of electric eng.  This list is patronized by IEEE Student
   Branch of Santa Maria University ( CHILE ) .

   This list will be as helpfull as the worldwide known IEEE abstracts,
   but here you can refer to topics in a interactive mode.  (not
   read-only).

   Archives of ADV-ELI back mails can be listed by sending the command
   INDEX to LISTSERV@UTFSM.

   To subscribe, sent the following command to LISTSERV@UTFSM via
   mail or interactive message.
      SUB ADV-ELI your full name
   Where "your full name" is your name. For example:
      SUB ADV-ELI Francisco Fernandez

   Owner: Francisco Javier Fernandez  ( FFERNAND@UTFSM )

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Gleason Sackman                           BBS:       sackman@sendit.nodak.edu
Coordinator                               Internet:  sackman@plains.nodak.edu
SENDIT - NoDak's K-12 Telcom Network      Bitnet:    sackman@plains.bitnet
BOX 5164,  NDSU Computer Center           Voice: (701)237-8109
Fargo, ND  58105                          Fax:   (701)237-8541
From: sackman@plains.nodak.edu (Gleason Sackman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: NEW LIST: ADV-INFO LATEST COMPUTING ADVANCES (from NEW-LIST)
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:45:51 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 22:41:02 CST
From: Francisco Javier Fernandez M <FFERNAND@utfsm.bitnet>
To: Multiple recipients of list NEW-LIST <NEW-LIST@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject: NEW LIST: ADV-INFO LATEST COMPUTING ADVANCES

ADV-INFO on LISTSERV@UTFSM  LATEST ADVANCES ON COMPUTING

   ADV-INFO is a list to divulge the latest advances on computing.

   In this list you can find, comment, ask and broadcast information
   about the leading age of computing.  The main purpose of ADV-INFO is
   tranforming into a powerfull tool for all the people who work on the
   develop of computing.  This list is patronized by IEEE Student Branch
   of Santa Maria University ( CHILE ) .

   This list will be as helpfull as the worldwide known IEEE abstracts,
   but here you can refer to topics in a interactive mode.  (not
   read-only).

   Archives of ADV-INFO back mails can be listed by sending the command
   INDEX to LISTSERV@UTFSM.

   To subscribe, sent the following command to LISTSERV@UTFSM via
   mail or interactive message.
      SUB ADV-INFO your full name
   Where "your full name" is your name. For example:
      SUB ADV-INFO Francisco Fernandez

   Owner: Francisco Javier Fernandez  ( FFERNAND@UTFSM )

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gleason Sackman                           BBS:       sackman@sendit.nodak.edu
Coordinator                               Internet:  sackman@plains.nodak.edu
SENDIT - NoDak's K-12 Telcom Network      Bitnet:    sackman@plains.bitnet
BOX 5164,  NDSU Computer Center           Voice: (701)237-8109
Fargo, ND  58105                          Fax:   (701)237-8541
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Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:11:19 EST
From:         Wayne Debly <DEBLY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Simple/cheap laserdisc control software for PC?

How cheap and simple do you want it?
Do you want the lazer disk output to be put on your computer screen?
   If yes then you will need a video card e.g.  DVI4000 for $3000
  or if you have a micro channel then M-Motion Card  $2000??
If you have the later the simplest and cheapest program I would suggest is
Podium by Fred Hoffstetter from Delaware U.  You merely create an ascii file
with key words for your sequences, put in the frames you want to show and
then click on the key words to bring up the frames.  Very simple and easy.
  If you have a DVI4000 then I don't know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 FROM:    WAYNE DEBLY                  | OFFICE:  (416) 675-3111 X4121
          ACADEMIC COMPUTING  RM:H233  |          (416) 675-5040
          HUMBER COLLEGE               | FAX:     (416) 675-9528
          205 HUMBER COLLEGE BLVD.     |
          ETOBICOKE, ONTARIO  M9W 5L7  | INTERNET:
          CANADA                       | DEBLY@ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:16:24 EST
From:         brownw@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Subject:      Steve Ehrman's address

I apoligize for troubling the whole list with this request.

I'm trying to contact Steve Ehrman (sp?) who is associated with the
Annenberg Project.  I know he's made contributions to this list in the
past.  I would like to have his e-mail address.  Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------
William J. Brown-Stone (aka Bill Brown)
Computer Laboratory
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI (not the one in Ann Arbor)
internet: brownw@ibm.cl.msu.edu
bitnet: brownw@msu.bitnet
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:01:04 EST
From:         "CHARLES SUNDIN, CHAIR, CHEMISTRY" <SUNDIN_C@ucs.uwplatt.edu>
Subject:      Re: multimedia definitions

Mark Whitman mentioned Stan Smith's and Loretta Jones' videodisc
computer based instruction package, the "Comprehensive Chemistry
Curriculum".  CCC is now a four disc set and growing.  However, I don't
think IBM is selling it even though they put a large amount of money
into the effort.  CCC is available from:

  Falcon Software, Inc.
  P.O. Box 200
  Wentworth, NH  03282

  Voice:  603-764-5788;  FAX:  603-764-9051

Charles Sundin
Department of Chemistry
University of Wisconsin-Platteville
sundin@uwplatt.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:38:51 EST
From:         "Remi_B.Aworuwa" <21602RA@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Education & Virtual Reality

Mark: I agree with most of what you said in your first posting to which I
reacted and virtually all you said in your second posting. Like you said, I
think we tend to generalize a lot when we talk about use of technology at any
level of education. I brought up the issue of faculty and students'
perspectives about computing to let us see that there are many stories to the
issue of technology use in education. I think we should recognize that both
students and teachers at all levels of education are going through a
transitional period now, especially as regards the use of computers and
related technologies. I think we are making progress and I think gradually, we
will come to understand the many different ways by which technology can become
a powerful tool to many teachers and students who are willing to try. I agree
with you, we have our problems. We have teachers who may never use
computers/technology in their teaching no matter how much we try. That does
not make them bad teachers either. Thank you./Remi
                                              21602RA@MSU.BITNET
From: STANKULI@UWF.BITNET (stan kulikowski ii)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: re: education and virtual reality
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:27:22 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>


  ok, i will take a plunge into the virtual reality discussions.  i think its
eventual impact on education is usually overrated, like multimedia.

  the problem with VR (goggles and gloves) is that it is a primary means of
sensory input/output.  as such, the kinds of information that it can represent
are low level primary information.  things which can be seen, touched,
counted, or handled.  i do not feel that training has ever been shy of this
form of material, even in 19th century one-room schoolhouses.  VR offers us a
wider range of convenience at the this level.

  the great effort in education (something above basic training) is the
development of conceptual skills.  concepts are manipulated through symbolic
structures, not sensory data.  much of the current thrust into multimedia is
an attempt to substitute much sensory information in the place of textual. i
believe we are doing students a great disservice by trying to lower the
levels of textual manipulation.  have you ever tried to search a massive
video library for some specific images?  it is just a brute force linear
process unless someone has overlaid the library with a database of textual
descriptors which can be searched and sorted in a systematic manner.

  VR is valuable to education in the extent that it offers us a sensory
translation of processes that are imperceptible by any other means.  say,
the ability to observe and manipulate subatomic particles or galactic
gravitational fields or memory allocation in cyberspace.  this in no way
lessens our reliance on massive textual sources for understanding conceptual
structures.  personally, i feel that hypertext is a more valuable tool for
education than virtual reality.
                               stan

          .         i have come
         ===        to chew bubble gum              stankuli@UWF.bitnet
         : :        and to kick ass
         ---        and i am all out of bubble gum.
                                   -- they live
From: sackman@plains.nodak.edu (Gleason Sackman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: ENTOMO-L (fwd)
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:43:05 GMT
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---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 11:25:22 EDT
From: Peter Kevan <EVBKEVAN@VM.UOGUELPH.CA>
To: gleason sackman <sackman@PLAINS.NODAK.EDU>
Subject: ENTOMO-L

Just a quick note to alert those who are interested in insects that
there is now an entomology bulletin board. You are invited to join.
To do so message to:
listserv@vm.uoguelph.ca
message text:
sub entomo-l Your Name

To send a message: mail to
ENTOMO-L@VM.UOGUELPH.CA

Best wishes, Peter Kevan, Listowner


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gleason Sackman                           BBS:       sackman@sendit.nodak.edu
Coordinator                               Internet:  sackman@plains.nodak.edu
SENDIT - NoDak's K-12 Telcom Network      Bitnet:    sackman@plains.bitnet
BOX 5164,  NDSU Computer Center           Voice: (701)237-8109
Fargo, ND  58105                          Fax:   (701)237-8541
From: sgough@s850.mwc.edu (stephen gough)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: re: education and virtual reality
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:16:52 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

>   ok, i will take a plunge into the virtual reality discussions.  i think its
> eventual impact on education is usually overrated, like multimedia.
>
>   the problem with VR (goggles and gloves) is that it is a primary means of
> sensory input/output.  as such, the kinds of information that it can represent
> are low level primary information.  things which can be seen, touched,
> counted, or handled.  i do not feel that training has ever been shy of this
> form of material, even in 19th century one-room schoolhouses.  VR offers us a
> wider range of convenience at the this level.
>
>   the great effort in education (something above basic training) is the
> development of conceptual skills.  concepts are manipulated through symbolic
> structures, not sensory data.
<Remainder deleted for brevity>

I don't think there are many people who feel that VR can or should
replace other forms of instruction.  However, surely it has a place in
our arsenal, inasmuch as it is highly visual and permits the
construction of scenarios on the fly.

Such "what if" experimentation has been embraced by many who have
conducted research in teaching methods, and it has been codified by national
organizations (e.g., AAAS' reports on the reform of science education).

I don't agree that VR cannot illustrate concepts and is limited to
"low level" skills acquisition.   It's potential to be a far greater
tool than you suggest is a function of the creativity of the developer,
not the medium itself.

I do agree with you that textual-based material has its place
and we should not look to VR as a panacea.  I also think it would be
foolish, in most cases, to eliminate or drastically cut the verbal
interaction between instructors and students.
--
                            Steve Gough
Mary Washington College          |   TRW Advanced Support Center
Biological Sciences              |   Product Development
sgough@s850.mwc.edu  (Internet)  |   SGOUGH/TRW  (SprintMail)
703.899.4689                     |   703.898.4127; 703.898.7980 (fax)
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Organization: Northern Territory University
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:29:15 EST
From:         John Carson <carson@post.ntu.edu.au>
Subject:      M-Media Internet Address

REGARDING                M-Media Internet Address
The full internet address M-Media ,Online Interactive Curriculum Exchange is:-
M-Media.muohio.edu

FTP ing to this address works well.

John Carson
carson@darwin.ntu.edu.au
From: jbpackman@Soaf1.SSA.GOV (Joel Packman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: Networked Based CBT
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:24:27 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

Does anyone have any experience in using either a LAN or WAN in the
delivery of CBT.  Experience in any type of DOS based network
applications (either interactive or text-based) would be appreciated.

Joel Packman
jbpackman@Soaf1.SSA.GOV
From: IANHART@HKUCC.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: Democracy
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:30:27 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

Congratulations to all US ed techies for surviving a particularly
exhausting and harrowing exercise in the demoncratic process (now there's
a Freudian slip!).  Sometimes it must seem that the Chinese system of
election by completely secret ballot has something going for it!

Let's hope that Clinton lives up to his promises on education and your
lives will be richer and more rewarding as a result.

Ian Hart
University of Hong Kong
IANHART@HKUCC.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:14:23 EST
From:         "Brett Wyatt" <wyattb@equinox.unr.edu>
Subject:      Re: Education & Virtual Reality

This thread of discussion is fascinating as it diverges onto equipment,
teacher abilty and studetn needs.

Sacramento schools have been working in "virtual environemnts" for over
four years. Without sophisticated 3-D software, students have produced
virtual folders, notebooks, etc. including pictures and voices. This
virtual world, the hypercard-linkway multi-media presentation, represents
the very lowest end of virtual reality.

Step up another level, SimEarth, SimCity, SimAnt, (Liesure Suit Larry), or
for those with active imaginations, Rogue, Moria, Empire (Character
simulations, no graphics here) are also virtual worlds.

What we see coming is immersion, total sensory immersion into a make
believe environment with stimuli outside of our control, fed to us by
powerful software engines. Anyone can start placing "virtual" realities
into their classrooms, just at what price and what level of immersion are
you willing to go.

Which gets to these teachers, just why don't they learn all this stuff anyway!
Could it be time? Is there incentive? How do you deal with problems like
explaining to a kid that they can not wear the headmount with all that
grease in their hair? How do you justify the expense of an expensive piece
of equipment when you can't purchase ditto fluid? pencils?

Our successes in Sacramento came from letting the students go forward,
always outpacing the teachers and showing us new tricks. This year,
though, with funding cutbacks and limited resources it has become
difficult to access the equipment or become motivated to try new ideas.
With all of these new toys to play with, all of the virtual playhouses
becoming available, it sometimes isn't possible to turn away from the
immediate game of survival, just getting the overcrowded (32+) classrooms
through each period. Such a dilemma.

Brett Wyatt

      wyattb@equinox.unr.edu
From: sackman@plains.nodak.edu (Gleason Sackman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edtech
Subject: ANNENBERG ANNOUNCES: (fwd)
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:44:24 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Approved-By:  "EDTECH Moderator" <21765EDT@MSU.BITNET>

---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:43:11 -0700
From: "(Frank Odasz)" <franko@bigsky.dillon.mt.us>
To: Multiple recipients of list COSNDISC <COSNDISC@bitnic.bitnet>
Subject: ANNENBERG ANNOUNCES:

The Annenberg/CPB Science and Math Project has just authorized
$1.5 Million for rural telecomputing projects supporting
rural teachers' science and math teaching efforts.
For a copy of this and other initiatives, contact
Project Officer Scott Roberts (sroberts@linknet.com)
voice number: 202-879-9641. The guidelines will be posted to
the cosndisc listserv soon.
               >>>>>---Please Distribute Widely-->


Frank Odasz                      \   /    ^     IMAGINATION
Western Montana College, Dillon, - O -   / \  ^  is more important
MT, 59725 Voice:406-683-7338     /   \ ^/~~~\/~\  than knowledge.
Fidonet: 1:346/3 Fax 406-683-7493     / \    \  \ -Albert Einstein.
Internet:franko@bigsky.dillon.mt.us  /   \    \  \
>->>>>>>----Big Sky Telegraph-406-683-7680--1200b,8N1--->

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Gleason Sackman                           BBS:       sackman@sendit.nodak.edu
Coordinator                               Internet:  sackman@plains.nodak.edu
SENDIT - NoDak's K-12 Telcom Network      Bitnet:    sackman@plains.bitnet
BOX 5164,  NDSU Computer Center           Voice: (701)237-8109
Fargo, ND  58105                          Fax:   (701)237-8541
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