HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour)
Subject: Chorus Singers/conductors: please read this
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:49:12 GMT


 
First my situation, then the questions.

I am with the chorus of an up-and-coming orchestra. When we perform with
them, it's normally 5 nights, in three counties. I've not measured the
trips exactly, but my guesstimate is I drive about 300 miles to get to
all the concerts and back. About seven hours of driving time. We are
a volunteer chorus, so the is no reimbursement for gas or time spent.

Now while I enjoy the group, and the performances, we seem to be getting
into the extremes of late. The women have recently done the Planets and
Malher 3. The Planets requires about 30 seconds of offstage vocalizing.
The Mahler about 3 minutes of onstage singing. Now we find the whole
chorus is doing the first movement only of Walton's Christopher Columbus.
My guess is between two and three minutes of singing, tops. Maybe less.
We don't know the tempo yet, and our conductor is noted for FAST tempo.

On the other extreme we are scheduled to to five complete Messiah
performances in 6 nights. We have a different "pops" Christmas concert
the night we're not doing Messiah. BTW The six nights end on December 23.
About half the evenings from Dec 1 to Dec 23 are scheduled by the
chorus.

Question: Do any of your Choral groups take into account that the singers
are mostly NOT professional musicians, and have other jobs, and lives?
I don't mind making some sacrifices, and I don't want to sound like a 
whiner (I don't mean to), but it seems to me that asking 100 or so
people to do five nights in three counties to sing for two minutes is
silly. Do any choruses have any type of *minimum* performance
standard? You know a, "we sing for at least 15 minutes, or it isn't worth
our time to do it", clause.

Is this a common practice, this feast/famine attitude?

Please e-mail any comments to: Burch Seymour - bseymour@encore.com

Thanks.
==========================================================================
From: inr@zardoz.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Beethoven's 32nd sonata
Date: 1 Oct 1992 15:36 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zardoz.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


 I read the start of this thread. The point I'm trying to make is that
it is at best misleading to relate anything that Beethoven wrote to
jazz - Beethoven wrote his music in the context of early 19th century
Viennese society. Obviously, we can't approach his music from exactly
that context, but I don't think it helps to bring in completely
inappropriate analogies. It's not as if Beethoven hadn't used these
techniques before - the arpeggio'd section in Op 27 No. 1 springs
to mind. And the technique goes back well before even Josquin.

Someone, I forget who, was talking about `parallel evolution' with
Afro-American jazz - that makes as much sense as to talk about
parallel evolution of insect wings and bird wings. Yes, they look
similar and serve the same purpose - but the evolutionary route was very
different. Similarly, both classical (in it's widest sense) and jazz
employ syncopation, both based, I suppose, on the tension that follows
from setting up a particular rythmic scheme and then emphasising the
off-beats, but the methods are very different. As someone else pointed out,
the last thing you want to do is to suggest jazz when you're playing Op. 111
(and vice versa).

  Neill Reid
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Subject: Re: Mahler and all that Rott
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: IfI, UNIT-AVH
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 08:18:18 GMT

In article <music.717686245@batman>, music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
wrote:

> I looked up Mr. Rott in Grove and here's a bit of what they say (which
> isn't much, but interesting):
> Born: Vienna, 1 Aug 1858; died: Vienna 25 June 1884 (at age 25).
> Studied organ with Bruckner, composition et. al. with others.
> "On 17 Sep 1880 he visited Brahms to seek his advice, but, like Wolf,
> he was rebuffed; within a month he had become insane. His importance
> as a composer lies in his influence on his close friend Mahler. In
> particular, his Symphony in E (1878-1880) anticipates those of Mahler
> in its thematic material and compositional techniques. Rott's many
> other works include songs, several orchestral pieces, a string quartet
> and quintet."


For those who would like to hear Rott's symphony, it is recorded by
Hyperion.


Terje Rydland
Dept. of Informatics, UNIT, Trondheim, Norway
Internet : terjer@ifi.unit.no
AppleLink: NOR0103
Tlf : +47-7-591845
Fax : +47-7-591733
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:07:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.084101.10082@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:

>As I see it, there are two advantages:

>1.  CD sound quality is better than tape or LP.

Arguable.  But one good thing about CDs is that the mere act of playing
them does not degrade them sonically, unlike LPs.

>2.  An increasing number of good recordings will be available only on CD.

In fact, the process is almost complete, isn't it?

>Also, once I've gotten past the
>initial costs, I then face the longterm cost of converting a large collection
>of records and tapes to CD, a significant investment I don't see the point
>of--and probably would not be compelled to make.

Why must you even consider doing this?  Continue to play your LPs and
cassettes!  I certainly do, so do most musicians I know.  I even go out
hunting for out-of-print LPs sometimes, if it's a performance I'm pretty
sure will not make it to CD.

>I'm sure others of you have struggled with the same question.  If I can find
>convincing reason to do so, I'll bite the CD.  Can anyone provide such reasons?

The motivation for me came when, as a record reviewer, I was told that
for a recording I very much wanted to cover (and it had been assigned to
me in advance) was being shipped with "review copies on CD only."
Bingo.  I bought my player the next day.  I didn't need to change my
other equipment, nor did I need to replace the LPs I already had.

For me, the medium's biggest advantage is not sonics, but convenience
and durability.  All the little preservation-rituals which we're used to
on LP (clean the surface, clean the stylus, clean the cleaning brush)
are blissfully unnecessary.  And you don't have to get up every 20
minutes.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Subject: Re: Re: Orchestras/conductors
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:29:48 GMT

In article <22810020@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> rms@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Rick Scherer) writes:
>I have been trying to collect the same information.  Here is my current list:
>
>Atlanta			Levi
>Baltimore		Zinman
>Berlin Philharmonic	Abbado
>Birmingham		Rattle
>Boston			Ozawa
>Chicago			Barenboim
>Cincinnatti		Lopez-Cobos
>Cleveland		Dohnanyi
>Columbus		Badea---no longer but I'm not sure who replaced him
>Czech Philharmonic	Belohlavek
>Dallas			Mata--is leaving soon
>Detroit			Jarvi
>Houston			Eshenbach
>Indianapolis		Leppard
>Israel Philharmonic	Mehta
>La Scala		Muti
>Leningrad		Temirkanov
>London Symphony		Thomas	
>Los Angeles		Salonen
>Minnesota		De Waart
>Montreal		Dutois--a typo I'm sure--you mean Dutoit
>N. Y. Philharmonic	Boulez--no no--Kurt Masur
>National		Rostropovich
>Oslo Philharmonic	Jansons
>Philhadelphia		Sawallisch
>Pittsburgh		Maazel
>Royal Philharmonic	Ashkenazy
>Royal Concertgebouw	Chailly
>San Francisco		Blomstedt
>Seattle			Schwarz
>St. Paul Chamber	Hogwood--Hugh Wolf now, isn't it???
>St. Louis		Slatkin
>Toronto			Davis
>Utah			Silverstein
>
>---
>Rick Scherer

Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Trio
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Karlheinz
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:36:25 GMT

YODER SEZ:

>
>>(to rekindle a firestorm) was anybody else as sickened as I was by the
>>*pathetic* John Cage "obituary" in this month's *Gramophone* (about 3
>>paragraphs, barely mentioning his music, and making him sound like a clown).
>
>Actually, it gives me new confidence in them.  At least they know a pretentious
>clown when they see one.
>

Must be why I noticed your article immediately Brian.....


Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:13795 ne.wanted:1311
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,ne.wanted
Subject: String players wanted for Belmont Sinfonia
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:26:36
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com

The Belmont Sinfonia, an amateur orchestra based in Belmont, Mass., has
openings for string players in all sections for a concert December 6
(Sunday) at 4 PM and other concerts throughout the season.  Program will
include Beethoven's 8th symphony and other pieces.  Anyone interested
should call Tim MacFarland at 484-9490.  Rehearsals are held on Thursday
evenings.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: hildo@overmind.sybase.com (Dave Hildebrandt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Judas Maccabeus Recording?
Date: 26 Sep 92 01:41:27 GMT
Followup-To: hildo@sybase.com

My choral group will be performing Judas Maccabeus in December
and I am interested infinding a good recording of this piece.

If there are any suggestions for a good label/conductor/performance
I'd appreciate email [since I don't read this group].

Apparently J.M. is somewhat hard to come by.  If there is interest
I'll obviously be happy to post here with results.

Thanks,
-dave
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: London Philharmonic Orchestra
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:00:42 GMT

>London
>has 5 fulltime concert orchestras:

As I recall... their "normal" homes are:


>London Symphony	-- The Barbican
>London Philharmonic	-- Royal Festival Hall
>Royal Philharmonic	--  ditto
>Philharmonia		-- don't have one(??)
>BBC Symphony		-- BBC Studios, if that counts.
>


>There's some merit in what you say; the thing is, this has been equally
>true for decades now.  The question is how far in the "future" you are
>talking about.  Perhaps orchestras will fade away altogether before this
>process reaches its logical conclusion!

They surely will if they keep playing the same stuff over and over and over...
Also, they can only record the same pieces so many times until every collector
in the world has each romantic warhorse in hextuplicate... (Out with the
flamethrowers...)  :-)

Bill

>
>Jon Alan Conrad
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Speaking of leitmotifs
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:33:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.182006.20062@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon) writes:
> In article 320@mindlink.bc.ca, Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
> > There is a sweeping, dramatic theme, if not leitmotif in Die
> > Walkure which reappears during Brunnhilde's Immolation aria
> > that's always struck me for some reason.

> I think you are referring to the motive known as "Redemption
> through Love", which is heard only in the Immolation Scene and at
> the earlier point you mention, where Sieglinde sings "Rette mich,
> rette mein Kind" ("Save me, save my child!"), after learning from
> Brunnhilde that she is carrying Siegmund's son.

Actually, she sings it to "O hehrste Wunder! herrlichste Maid!" after
learning that her son is to be the world's greatest hero.

> The link, of
> course, is that the child is Siegfried, and the "Redemption
> through Love" theme refers to Brunnhilde's love for Siegfried.

I tend to be a little leery of the tradition of giving explicit names
to Wagner's leitmotivs, and describing their symbolism too literally.
Considering how it is used at the end of _Goetterdaemmerung_, however,
I think the "redemption" idea is a reasonable association with this
motif. And the fact that "it's always struck you", Mike, shows that
you're paying attention :-) ; Wagner clearly intended it to be
striking (why else would it be the last recognizable musical event in
the entire cycle?).

What strikes *me* as astonishing and unique (in the _Ring_, at least)
is the way that this motif, clearly intended to be significant and
memorable, makes its single appearance in Act III of _Die Walkuere_
and then *never appears again* until the last 15 minutes of the cycle.
It's as if Wagner associated wo much significance with it that he was
"saving" it for the final climax. I wonder if he actually expected
first-time listeners to remember it from its first appearance when
they heard it again two days later?

Robert
From: jkonghsu@ocf.berkeley.edu (James Kong Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Help on buying Beethoven's 5th and 9th
Date: 6 Oct 1992 04:51:55 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu


I am planning to get beethoven's 5th and 9th on CD. Does anyone have
any suggestions on which conductors are the best for each?
Please email replies to:

jkonghsu@ocf.berkeley.edu

Thanks for your help.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: art30248@nusunix1.nus.sg (NG LING LING)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:12:07 GMT

Daniel Gottlieb (enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu.cmccon1) wrote:
: 	I realize that this may open myself up to a deluge of replies, but I would
: like to hear about all the favorite recordings of Mahler 1 out there.  My
: personal favorite is the most recent Bernstein D.G. with the Concertgebow,
: but I've heard that the new Tenstett (spelling?) C.S.O. live recording on
: Angel/E.M.I. is just incredible.  Any advice?
: 
: 
:
Well, I have a Decca (Ovation) CD of Sir Georg Solti/ London Phil doing
it very well. The brasses were superb and the string passages seemed to
get the flowing melodies in the 1st mvt. especially well. Also, for a
1960s remastering, it sounded almost perfectly DDD.

Humdinger! 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: srgcraf@grace.cri.nz (Ross A Fletcher)
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Organization: Industrial Research Ltd
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 01:25:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.084101.10082@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>From: 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp
>Subject: Why switch to CD?
>Date: 5 Oct 92 13:41:01 GMT
>I think I'm one of the last non-CD owners.  And I'm finding that state a little
>frustrating but the thought of changing it not attractive enough outweigh the
>frustration.
>
>The problem is that recordings I'd like to own I can't buy because I don't have
>a CD player.  I could correct that by buying one, but every time I think of
>doing so I compare the prices of CDs and cassettes and decide that I still
>don't really want to do that.    (I'm probably not as poor as I am tight.)  
>
>The question is, "What are the advantages of getting into the CD market?
>
>As I see it, there are two advantages:
>
>1.  CD sound quality is better than tape or LP.
>
>2.  An increasing number of good recordings will be available only on CD.
> 
>I find #1 probably true but largely irrelevant.  The difference in sound
>quality will show up best with high quality equipment.  I do most of my
>listening in a car with typically dead acoustics and road noise, in my office,
>occasionally, where, at best, I have to keep it soft, and at home, where I live
>with two teenagers whose production values are clearly more analog than 
>digital.  Also, remember that I confess to being tight.
>
>#2 bothers me a bit, because I don't believe in piracy, and so I won't borrow 
>and copy CDs to tape on my son's system.  Also, once I've gotten past the
>initial costs, I then face the longterm cost of converting a large collection
>of records and tapes to CD, a significant investment I don't see the point
>of--and probably would not be compelled to make.
>          
>I'm sure others of you have struggled with the same question.  If I can find
>convincing reason to do so, I'll bite the CD.  Can anyone provide such reasons?
>
>Herb Stahlke  
>Ball State University

You've already had most of the reasons from others but the one about asking 
you two play your cassette tracks in a different order from the way they're 
recorded is one very appealing trait of CDs - you effectively have random 
access as with LPs.  Searching for a particular part of a track is also 
simplicity itself and there is no dammage to as stylus or the disk itself.  
Its also a good reason for staying away from pre-recorded DAT - although the 
manufacturers claim lightning access to tracks - I can't believe it can be 
as easy as the CD medium.

Ross
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Which forza/carlos/ballo to buy?
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:58:34 EDT

In article <1a7m6uINN3uk@cauchy.usc.edu> splin@cauchy.usc.edu (Sen-Pin Lin)
writes:

>	I am planning to purchase CDs for these three Verdi's operas. Can
>anyone recommend a recording for each of them?

There is a Callas recording of Ballo taken from a performance around 1957
or so, with Gavazzeni conducting and Giuseppe di Stefano at his best as
Riccardo.  This is one of those sparks-flying kind of nights, and the
second act is positively on fire.  The duet between Riccardo (King of
Boston) and Amelia is thrilling.  The final portion of this act ("Ve' se di
notte") is done with more twist in that little syncopated thing they do
than I've ever heard, and it's just perfect to my ear.

The sound is more than respectable for the period and circumstances, quite
decent.

There is a recording with Bjoerling and Milanov that is equally splendid,
though the sound is much less good, though still listenable.  

I used to think that Ballo was very odd in its Boston setting, but I didn't
know how good I had it until they confused me by going back to the
"correct" setting.  What happened to Ulrica?  Who's this Horn guy?  And gee
but it's too bad that Boston lost its king.  %^)

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Bruno Walter's Mozart recordings
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:35:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.153844.7529@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep21.033205.1@vax1.umkc.edu>, etishkoff@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>>Has anyone heard the re-releases of Bruno Walter's Mozart recordings?  If so,
>>which symphonies are included in the set, how are the sonics, and what do
>>you think of Walter and these recordings?
>
>I haven't heard the CD reincarnation, but have opinions of Walter.  His LP
>set of Mozart symphonies was one of the few records I de-accessioned from
>my collection.  The problem is in two parts.  On the one hand, Walter's
>conception of Mozart was based on late 19th century style.  On the other 
>hand, Walter had no "method" that he adhered to other than his own personal
>feelings.  That idea in itself is 19th century:  the idea that Walter could
>be so omniscient so as to assume how Mozart's music is supposed to sound
>merely out of his own personal feelings. (Having gone through all of Walter's
>7,000-odd pieces of correspondence I can confirm his having written this
>on more than one occasion.)  Whereas this kind of utlimately uneven approach
>works very successfully in Mahler, I don't think it holds up under our
>contemporary approach to Mozart (which has at least some more musicological
>evidence in support).

So you are saying that the insights of a great musician into the work
of a great composer have no relevance unless there is musicological
evidence to support them? Support them how, I mean are we talking
tempi, number of strings, wind doubling, bowing, continuo or what?
Frankly I'd trade a single movement of Walter's Mozart for Hogwood's
entire cycle.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Harpsichord for sale!
From: mclaughlin@brandonu.ca
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:17:23 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

I'm brand new at this -- forgive me if I don't do it right!

I have a one-manual Italian harpsichord for sale.  It's a
Zuckermann, built by Paul Y. Irvin (Chicago) in 1977.  I bought
it from the builder in 1980.

It has a 2 x 8' ensemble, with stop levers added to the side of the
case.  It has 47 notes in all, with a short octave bass (C/E - d''').

The soundboard is made of Sitka spruce, the case is yellow Alaskan
cedar with cherry accents, with a turned spruce stand.  I added a
cherry music stand.  The keys are natural boxwood.

The whole instrument is 79 inches long, and weighs 35 pounds.

It's a really nice continuo instrument.  I don't play it anymore and I think
it's a shame that it isn't being played.

I have a wooden shipping crate so it can go anywhere without worry.

I'd like to get $2250. (US) for it, but the price is negotiable.

I can send you a picture if you e-mail me your address.

-----------
Patricia McLaughlin        MCLAUGHLIN@BrandonU.CA
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven Sonata 32
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:47:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Daniel Benbenisty writes:
>
> Beethoven's last piano sonata (32nd) has two movements, and the first
> half of the second movement is a set of 6 variations on a theme.  The
> last of these variations is what especially fascinates me, since it
> resembles to me a heavily syncopated, fast-swingin' jazz number more
> than anything else (except with B's compositional flair)!
>


The last movement of B's 1st Piano Concerto also has some rather "funky"
sounding passages...