From: oren@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Oren Kastner)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:51:55 GMT



Howdy,
     It seems that there are some people out there how are opposed to others
setting up IRCbots for themselves.  I'd like for someone to explain to me
*HOW* its any of their business?  For some time I refrained from voicing my
opinion as that would mean that I wouldn't be practicing what I preach.

But, enough is enough!

     These are a few comments I'd like to make to several people, and I think
I have my facts straight.  The articles have long expired at my site, but I'm
pretty sure everything that's I'm going to paraphrase is correct.  Please,
however, correct me if I'm misunderstood something.

Avalon: said that bots are a waste and should be killed on sight, as far as it
        was his concern.

        Lesse, here...  Whenever I've been on IRC and did a `/whois avalon' it
        seems that he is always around -- but most of the time `/away.'  Thus,
        it seems that avalon is on IRC *AS MUCH* as any other Bot, if not
        more.  And usually, the bots serve more purpose -- more than likely.
        In this case, should avalon be killed on sight, too?  He's as much of
        a waste of bandwidth as any bot that's out there.  Heck, he probably
        generates more traffic on an over all basis figuring that when he *IS*
        actually there he /msg's and /traces all over the place, etc...

`Moose' (Michael Dinn?): said that he thinks bots to be a waste and as such he
        took out the `-b' option in his site's public ircII client.  I make the
        assumption that its the site as if it wasn't that he needn't worry
        about anyone using it. :-)  So, I'd like to know how come he thinks it
        so appropriate to inflict *HIS* opinion on his users -- does he call
        THAT ``service.''  How would he like it if his SysAdmin got upset over
        getting a ``Connection timeout..'' on a telnet, once, and hence,
        removing all telnet clients off of the machines.  Does ``Moose'' rather
        have people compiling their own clients all over the place and waste
        more resources than really necessary?

Mark Evans:  This guy is a REAL piece of work!  [Hence, I will flame him more
        than anyone else!]  First, he *ACTUALLY* logged on to IRC and /msged
        every *Bot* or *Serv* he could find to see what they do.  He must have
        PLENTY of time on his hands to bother. [read: he has no life :-]  Then,
        he posts to alt.irc telling us which *HE* thinks provide what he
        considers a ``worthwhile'' service.  What really gets me more than
        anything else is his ``righteous'' attitude.  He thinks that IRCbots
        generate too much bandwidth and are a waste of resources?  That is a
        really attitude for someone such as himself to hold. [read: hypocrite]
        He posts between 2-6 of non-informative articles a DAY to alt.irc ALONE,
        nevermind to any other usenet group, and he speaks of bandwidth?  I
        will admit to not having all the fine details about net resource usage,
        but somehow I would think that if you take his posts:

        (content+headers+packet_headers) * all_machines_that_get_alt_subgroups

        his resource usage is much higher than ANY bot on IRC -- perhaps even
        all of them COMBINED.  :-)  Maybe someone can shed some light and prove
        to me that bots are more of a net resource hogs than these idiots that
        are trying to ``ban'' them.  Note, this concerns avalon, too -- who
        posts AS many, if not more, articles (though, at least some of them -- a
        rare few :) -- are informative at times).  I could go on, but I think
        y'all get the point.  :-)

     To conclude I'd like to point out that as *I*'ve understood it, IRC is
under the GNU copyleft and was written with the spirit of ``freedom of
expression.''  To censor someone's expression by ``killing'' his/her creation
seems pretty sick to me.  Stop butting your noses into other people's business
and worry about how YOU lead your life (be it real or virtual existence).  I'd
hate to think that because of a few of you, someone would not have the pleasure
of learning something new -- be it writing/running/communicating with a
program.  Personally, I've never written or have ``owned'' a bot -- but I
would never discourage someone from doing so if they were interested.  I could
see an argument for someone having 10+ robots roaming around -- and even then,
I'd have a hard time justifying that s/he be stopped or banned or whatever.
But to make a fuss of some users having a bot or two?  Why not ban people from
posting to Usenet?  It's a *LOT* higher traffic (right?) and so many questions
always get asked over and over and over again.

Chill out people... sheesh...

Just my $0.50  (time is money! :-)
[But, I'd also hate to think I'm the *ONLY* one that felt this way!  I also
would have probably used the email route, but I thought another side of the
``Useless Bot'' campaign should be made ``public''].

Have a good one,
		Oren.
-- 

Oren Kastner                           E-mail address:

Brandeis University                    oren@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu