From: drunen@nucleus.ps.uci.edu (Eric Van Drunen)
Subject: Re: Ki and science
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:10:49 GMT

i responded by e-mail to the original poster, but the continued discussion compels me to enter my two cents:

im no master (usual disclaimer), but i have ki, and i know people who have more and less than i.  im also a physicist trained in the western tradition (whatever that is).  to me, the question of science and ki are only vaguely related:

1)  western culture is full of similar concepts as ki.  how about "will" or even "charisma"?  these expressions are based in the same root as ki, but expressed as the culture dictates.  for science, maybe a sociologist or psycologist can say what these differences are and why they are so.

2)  people performing acts "beyond" their physical ability occur frequently (ie. the mother lifting the car off her children stories).  a physiologist or biologist may tell you how this happens.


these two points underlie my interpretation of ki.  after years of training (both mentally and physically (and spiritually)), a person develops 1) great physical strength and coordination.  a mastery of every part of their body...breathing and even slight changes in facial expression... 2) a strong mental and spiritual picture (a strong "will" and a good "soul" to use more western terminology).  combine these together, and the overall effect is stunning!  mainly because a person, highly developed mentally 



and spiritually, has their body obeying exactly as they desire!  im sure all of us have felt that feeling of being around someone with great ki, but i think everyone has also experienced this around people who have had no training in martial arts whatsoever.  those people might be said to have a "charisma" about them, but its also a form of ki. 

in these terms, i dont think anyone from western culture would have a problem understanding ki.  it may not be exactly the same as an eastern picture, but there is no way it can be.  there are certain concepts which are so culture based that a vague translation from one to the other (and vice versa) is all that can be given.

western science has a problem with ki when it is presented in terms of people flying and moving stones with their minds and killing people by thinking of it, and for good reason!  ask anyone with such claims to repeat them, and they wont for whatever reason it takes to get them out of it.  why does it seem that ki is rejected whole-heartedly by western science?  because their only exposure to ki is by sham-sters and exagerrated stories.  people with true ki dont go off on demos of their ki and ask scientis



ts to quantify how great they are, only people without ki do.  the "data" science has been given is poor at best, but even with good data, science and ki are only related as i have stated above (to me, of course).

p.s.  western science can be a bit close-minded, but its more from peoples' egos than from their science.  some people feel the need to call all others 'wackos', and others are paranoid of being called one.  people are people.

Eric Van Drunen
drunen@nucleus.ps.uci.edu