HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M23401@mwvm.mitre.org (Larry Kahn)
Subject: Re: Sudden Death of Snapdragons (wilt?)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:27:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.220956.25848@cbnews.cb.att.com>
gwb@cbnews.cb.att.com (gregory.blum) writes:
 
>
>Snapdragons have always been among my favorites of the annuals (well, at
>least they're annuals HERE, despite what some lucky people have been saying
>about their warmer climes), so I've always grown rather a large number
>of them, and always quite successfully (some neighbors have even commented
>"spectacularly"..... not to brag..... well, only a little).
>
>Until now.
>
>This year, I put them out mid-May as usual.  Gave them full sun, as usual.
>Gave them reasonable water during the few dry spells that we've had.
>Gave them a rather small amount of Ortho time release fertilizer (not really
>as usual, but I've just started in a new house and didn't have adequate
>compost reserves built up at the current location).  And everything looked
>great, until about two weeks ago.  Then, rather oddly, overnight (quite
>literally), big healthy beds of snapdragons would more or less instantly
>die.  One day masses of green plants and bright flowers..... the next day
>every plant would have wilted lifeless leaves just laying there, and very
>limp, dead looking flowers.  This hit one bed, then a couple of days later
>a second bed, then a week later the third bed until I have none left (well,
>there's actually one stalwart little plant holding out amidst the general
>slaughter, but that actually makes the whole thing seem even more strange).
>
>Any ideas what happened???  It's pretty obviously too late for these plants,
>but I would like to keep the carnage from occurring again next year.
>
>Thanks....
>Greg Blum
>
   I've had the same problem with isolated plants.  I'm not an expert on this
but I know there is a wilt disease that snapdragons can be prone to.  The
problem is that it's in the soil (fungus or bacteria) and hard to get rid of.
There are chemical treatments that you can douse the soil with, and I've
also heard not to keep planting snapdragons in the same place every year.
Also, there might be more wilt resistant varieties available.  Make sure
to completely get rid of all plant debris in the area before starting over.
Hope this information helps,
                                 Larry
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:10:50 GMT

klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Are you going to be using a sand base under the liner?  Sand isn't exactly
>light either, when you're moving a wheelbarrow full...

Here's a trick (I haven't personally tried yet) I gleaned from
somewhere regarding under the liner protection: carpet.  Cruise the
streets if you have a trash pickup and get as much as you like.  It's
free, it's light and it's a whole lot easier to work with than sand.
Obvious point: make sure it doesn't have any nails, pins or other
sharp objects in it.

I've been saving my oldies as I've replaced carpet for 5 years now
just for my future pond.  Lotsa carpet - no pond yet :-(
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Dandelions (was Re: ORGANIC lawn care???)
Organization: Calif. Dandelion Growers Assoc.
	<charlesv.714151560@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> 
	<1992Aug18.165825.3010@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Motto: Just eat one dandelion per day, that's all we ask
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:45:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.165825.3010@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> 
buckc@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Carolyn Buck-Gengler) writes:
>There are a couple reasons that some might not want dandelions in
>their lawns and gardens:

Alright, I suppose that it is concievable that some people might actually
want to declare war on the dent-de-lion. So, how to:

1. Hoe
	It works, it's simple, easier and less tiring than mowing. Kids can
	do it too!

2. Grow better grass
	Grass is about the most agressive, choking weed there is. Grow it
	well, and you should have few plants other than grass. How to grow
	grass well? Cut it high, as high as the mower will allow. Leave
	the cuttings on the lawn. If you remove the cuttings, you will have
	to add fertilizer to compensate for the nutrients you are removing.
	If you fertilize, use a balanced fertilizer. Seed in dutch white
	clover, it brings up deep nutrients and makes nitrogen from the air,
	plus you can look for four leaf clover with your kids. If you irrigate,
	irrigate less often if at all. Grass is very drought tolerant. Ever 
	hear of the Great American Short Grass Prarie, you think it rains there?
	It does, 20-10 inches per year but frequent droughts.

3. Safer Sharpshooter Weed Killer
	I have never used this and I have no idea what's in it, but it's
	gotta beat Ortho, just follow directions exactly and never exceed
	prescribed amounts, if anything use less.

4. RoundUp or equivalent
	One of the safest chemical plant killers. Do not spray on a windy
	day. FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. Wear full clothing and wash clothing after
	spraying or better yet brushing which is safer. Don't screw around
	with this stuff, it is not for kids.

Please, take it easy, have mercy for the poor things. What would childhood
be without blowing the seeds of a dandelion? Blow away, dandelion.
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: landscape designer needed
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:39:22 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

kcarroll@milton.u.washington.edu writes:
> I would like to hire a pro to design for this new sight but $ is limited.
> Has anyone had experience hiring landscape architech grad students?
> Could I ask for a design and a planting plan to complete myself over several  
> seasons?  In fact, I enjoy the dirty work; I just feel unable to plan a new  
> Pacific NW garden from scratch. 

It can be a real feather in a student LA's cap to have a real-life garden
planned and *planted*.  Rather nice on the resume, I hear...

Alan* designed a planting for my mom while he was a jr: I think we settled on
$50 and a couple of home-cooked meals.  My ex- and I did most of the actual
planting.  An alternative might be to talk an LA prof into running a 
"design competition" in class-- winner gets to see the design constructed...

Kay Klier

*Alan is now a professional LA who specializes in using midwestern natives--
he's the poor soul who I hope to stick with the design work for my hypothetical
house-cum-prarie-cum-walled garden...  I keep doodling house designs, and
they keep coming out like a greenhouse with attached bedroom and kitchen.
Very strange.  Can't imagine why. ;-)
From: frei@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Keith Freiberger)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:30:52 GMT
Subject: Re: NEVER!! eat Poison Ivy leaves
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.gardens

> The old adage is "If leaves are three, let it be". This same adage works also
> with one of the other "poison" type plants, but I don't remember which.
> Remembering this adage has saved my butt a few times.

If I can remember correctly back that far, the adage that we learned in boy
scouts was

  Leaflets three, let it be
  Berries white, poisonous sight

I agree that this is a good one to remember.  

I think that the other poisonous plant that you are referring to is poison oak,
which is very common out here on the West coast.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Subject: Re: Seed starting FAQ; FAQ report
Summary: FTP & Mailing list site available
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:35:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.151600.6093@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>FAQL's are still at the hand-posting stage: there is no ftp spot yet, and
>we're still revising everything anyhow!

Did you receive my e-mail about the availability of a site for FTP
and mailing list?
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Subject: Evergreens and Bag Worms
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Distribution: rec.gardens
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:35:30 GMT

     Another posting brought to mind something most people seem unaware of.
Perhaps some of us have seen evergreen trees that turn solid brown, or a
large portion turns brown.  If you look closely you will see a little
dangling bag covered with needles, etc., about 1/4" to 1" long.  If you
pull this off the tree and attempt to tear the bag, why, lo! you can't
begin to do it.  Inside is a little "worm" called the Bag Worm killing
your tree.
     How many times I see these trees, and no one doing anything about
pulling off the bagworms to save the trees!  Any other experiences or
insight out there into the bagworm?

Vince Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Green Carpets
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Summary: just pull it up, if you have to
Keywords: ajuga, bugleweed
Organization: outil, stanford, osu, lsa,...
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:22:28 GMT

good grief!  ajuga is one of the world's nicest, prettiest
plants (if you like 'em low to the ground).  it seems almost
criminal to be destroying it.

but don't use poisons.  the plants are very shallow-rooted
and can be kept back easily by hand-pulling.  it spreads,
but not in leaps and bounds (unlike, say, lawn grasses,
which are fierce pests in borders), so the task is not
very difficult.

arnold
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: African Violets
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:03:53 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory


     Maybe I'm not using the "kosher" approach, but then again, I don't
ever recall losing a plant I've split.  Speed is my primary tool, but
that is what I do with everything...it's probably OK to take your time
with A.V.s.  Take a scalpel and cut them so that each half gets it share.
It's not critical, though, for I've even cut off all roots at started in
water.  It only takes a few days to see new roots.  Much faster than 
rooting a leaf.  Even if you have some rot, you can cut the crown back
until you don't see any brown or rot and re-root!  In fact, I think
it's next to impossible to kill an A.V.  Some would recommend some dust
to treat the cuts with, and maybe that's a good thing.  Perhaps even
flowers of sulfur would do.  If you lack confidence, an additional 
safety factor might be after cutting to plant them in vermiculite rather
than rich soil for a while.

Vincent Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
From: Ecology Center Fund <ecologycntr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:57 PDT
Subject: Re: Bt
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug19.173007.24559@news.ment:-236675681:cdp:1453300076:000:72
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecologycntr    Aug 19 18:57:00 1992


Maybe Safer has a particularly genetically diverse strain of BT?

chris
From: jr3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Davis Raborn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: pressure treated lumber
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:21:55 GMT
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

My wife and I bought our children a real "nice" wooden swing set made of
CCA treated lumber. A couple of months later, we read in our OG about
the CCG lumber and next issue, OG scare the shit out of us with the 3
page editor note.

We called the company who made the set, the EPA, and the Better Business
Bureau, all of which couldn't have cared less about our fears (OG
implants). We did finally contact a technical person (chemist) who
beleived the best thing to do was use a polyurethane finish to seal the
CCA in. So we did.

What to believe? My wife is still concerned and wants me to re-coat the
swing set atleast twice a year 'til I die or the swing set disenegrates
(which will be a long time thanks to the CCA). Me? I think the OG
article smells of panic and it make me angry that OG had the ability to
affect me that way.

However, since it is my children (and nieghborhood children) that are
chomping, playing and generally ingesting anything they touch on the
set, I must be pro-active and do my wifes bidding.

Another example of the uneducated consumer getting an education. THE HARD WAY.
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Bracken and Goat's Rue
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:15:41 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory


     Under a power lines at University of Virginia, there is considerable
bracken and goat's rue.  Since I received no reply asking for a definition
of rhizome vs. tuber vs. bulb vs. corm on a previous posting, I will guess
that these plants have rhizomes or perhaps just long underground roots
from which they send up new plants.  THESE PLANTS ARE TOUGH TO TRANSPLANT!
Does ANYONE know how to do it.  Please don't merely express guesses, though.
I've even tried well thought out premises which work under some circumstances.
Usually, when digging an unendangered non-rare, in fact bountiful species,
I will quickly dig with ample dirt, thoroughly moisten soil, and to avoid
plant water loss due to missing or damaged root hairs, cover the entire plant
to minimize otherwise normal transpiration losses (avoid a net water loss
with same output through leaves but reduced input through leaves).
     Any assistance will be mucho appreciated.
     Danke.
     Vince Summers
     vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: kevin@howdy.cc.columbia.edu (Kevin Harris)
Subject: Herb `n Renewal Catalog Question
Followup-To: kevin@howdy.cc.columbia.edu
Keywords: catalog, pricy, worth it?
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:47:09 GMT

While thumbing through the August/September issue of _The Herb 
Companion_, I ran across an ad for a company called Herb `n Renewal.
What this company offers (for US $5.00) is a catalog that is "three
-hole punched and meant to be saved - This may be the only catalog
you'll ever read." The ad goes on to say "We have more that 1,000
products (satisfaction guaranteed) that are beautiful, sensual,
effective, attractive, "ecofriendly," and cruelty-free."

Okay, sensual I can dig. Cruelty-free I really appreciate, but
what I wanna know about this stuff is what do these people sell? 
I'm *primarily* interested in herb and wildflower seeds, pots, 
books, and accessories. I don't mind a catalog that has things
like herbal teas, soaps, lotions, and other knick-knacks (although
I really would appreciate some long - lasting herbal dog shampoo,)
but I don't really want to shell out $5.00 for a catalog that has
little - to - none "real" gardening supplies.

So, my question is: has anybody out there sent these folks their 
money for one of the catalogs? If so what do these people offer?
Even if the catallog has no "real" gardening supplies, are the 
products offered by Herb `n Renewal interesting and unique enough
to justify what is otherwise a rather pricy catalog? I'd like to 
hear from you.

ADVthanksANCE,

kevin
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Bt
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:16:08 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

archiel@sun_archielcom (Archie Lachner) writes:
> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> |> Could be you're selecting for Dipel resistance?
>  
> I don't think so.  My experience is limited to the use of Safer brand BT, which
> is a brown, syrupy liquid.  I have been using it to control imported cabbage
> worms, corn ear worms, and cutworms in a 500 ft2 garden for seven years.  I have
> never observed any residual effects.  I spray only those crops that are being
> attacked by the pests I've listed above.  This has never failed to put an
> immediate halt to the problem.  As long as I spray at the recommended interval,
> I have no repeat problems.  When I stop spraying, the worms reappear.  For
> example, after harvesting broccoli this spring, I left the plants for a few weeks
> before I got around to composting them.  They developed a healthy crop of small
> cabbage worms during that period.
> 
> This doesn't sound much like natural selection at work to me, nor do I see much
> in the way of residual effect from the BT I'm using.  In summary, I have seen no
> evidence of the things you have observed about BT in my seven years of "organic"
> gardening. 

Ah-hah!  (well, maybe ah-hah!)  Could it be that the Safer's prepration is
_just_ the endotoxin, and any spores are inviable?  The endotoxin is
what does the actual dirty work, and the spores spread the organism.  A quick
look at the structure of one of the toxins suggests that it ought to be
degraded +/- quickly by UV light.  But I don't have anything that would 
confirm that hunch...  

Kay Klier
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: African Violets
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:08:59 GMT
	<1570@shaman.wv.tek.com>
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory


     Yes, it's a good idea to rinse plants, even though many people in the
past expressed fear to do so.  Probably the myth that you shouldn't do it
arises from the attempt to use cold water or to putting them in the sun
afterward.  This causes spotting, etc.  Properly instituted, the washing
removes dust, etc., giving cleaner appearances and seems to speed plant
growth a little.  Let's face it---if the plant were in the right clime 
out of doors, it would rain now and then and the plant WOULD get wet.
If you talk to African Violet horticulturists, you won't get the fearsome
stories some inept violet raisers tell.  Some out there don't even
realize the African Violet isn't even a violet!

Vince Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: starkie@eddore.trl.oz.au (Brad Starkie)
Subject: Copper strips to deter snails
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:47:22 GMT

Previously I read something here about using copper strips to
around vegies to stop snails eating them.
The claim was it was 100% successful. 
Can someone please fill me in a bit. How
wide should the strips be? Does it deter or kill the snails?
and what is the mechanism behind this technique?
Electric currents? poisoning?

I bought some scrap copper today and tried it out on a few
snails. Basically I put the snails on the copper plate
and observed them and compared this to their behaviour on
concrete. Sample size 4 snails, copper plate 1 square foot.
On dry copper it didn't have much affect. But on
wet copper it had interesting effects. The snails tried to avoid
touching the plates by lifting their necks, or trying to roll
on their backs. They usually ended up slowly spinning around in
circles oozing froth. One of the snails managed to make it from
the centre to the outside though, but once he made his (yes i
know they are hemaphrodites) escape he wasn't going back 
onto the plate when I put it into his path. The behaviour
on concrete was to continue in a straight line with all their
bodies touching it.

My conclusions:
	need to be at least 1.5 snail length wide strips.
	copper needs to be wet.
	not 100% effective but looks very promising.

Brad Starkie
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jeanne@cray.com (Jeanne Moses)
Subject: Re: Gray Grass (grey for Englishmen)
Distribution: rec.gardens
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:41:29 CDT


Thanks, Vince, for the gray/grey distinction...I've always wondered
what the difference was :-).  Anyway, I think our grass has this
same problem, and it's all over the lawn.  Grayish, moldy-looking
spots.  What is it and should I care?  It doesn't seem to be hurting
the grass, but I'm worried about all my other plants.  BTW, in the
same vein, what DO I do about the fungus/mold/whatever on my garden
phlox??


jeanne
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Re: pressure treated lumber
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:50:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.131547.23393@walter.cray.com>, gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) writes:
> Is it dangerous to use pressure treated lumber (lumber treated with
> copper arsenate) in a raised garden bed.  I plan on growing lettuce
> in the bed and use the 4x4 sections for borders and walls.
> 
> 
==
I hope not. I've been using them for about 10 years... growing lettuce, 
basil, peppers, carrots, potato(e)s, tomatoes, peanuts, asparagus...
I'm still here to type this...

rlwilliams@gallua
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: M.Steven@uws.edu.au (Mike Steven)
Subject: Making Adobe Pavers
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:33:29 GMT

Does anyone out there have any experience in making adobe (clay) pavers,
or know how it might be done? It has been suggested to me that I use a mixture
of clay and asphaltic emulsion. If so, what is the recipe? Maybe someone has
a better idea. All suggestions gratefully acknowledged.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: frosty@med.unc.edu (Steve Loechel)
Subject: Re: van Bourgondien & Sons
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:28:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.135731.6908@hemlock.cray.com> jill@cray.com (Jill McAllister) writes:
>VAN BOURGONDIEN & SONS, INC.
>   PO Box A
>   245 Farmingdale Road
>   Babylon, NY 11702
>
>
>I was wondering if anyone on this list has had trouble with this
>company.  

I ordered plants from them once. The quality of the plants was abysmally
low, and trying to get replacements from this company is like trying
to squeeze blood from a stone. Avoid them.

--Frosty
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:23:18 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Distribution: na
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC

In rec.gardens, Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Jack Honeycutt) writes:

(in part)

>     PVC is very strong and it can withstand pets, racoons and whatnot,
>but it is a poor pond liner.

>     PVC does not have the UV light block that Butyl and EPDM has.
>PVC will not hold up.  PVC is not the product of choice in pond
>construction.  PVC is cheep and you can get it at almost any garden

OK, I almost hate to ask, but what about those of us (or am I the only
one) who have already put in ponds with PVC liners? About  how much
time do my shibunkins have before dooms day? :-(

Seriously, I did try to design the thing to minimize liner exposure
to UV. Is there anything else I can do to extent the life?

When dooms day does arrive, will I be able to lay a new rubber liner
over the old PVC? (I wore out too many body parts putting the beast
in in the first place. I would not look forward to removing/reinstalling
the many tons of rock, etc.)

My apologies for posting this, but I have not been successful gettinq
mail through to Jack. Hopefully some other readers are also interested
in this thread. - Bill
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |First things first!     |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 2759           | (But not necessarily in|
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |that order) - The Doctor|
_________________________________________________|________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.gardens