HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:38:41 GMT
	<1992Oct3.232158.7877@philmtl.philips.ca>
	<1992Oct4.082321.3797@rdg.dec.com> <YenpihO00iUz01WZES@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <YenpihO00iUz01WZES@andrew.cmu.edu> bj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell) writes:

   Where/how can I get hold of some haggis for this year's Burns Night,
   since the Scottish friend who got his mum to send him some (marked
   "Confectionary") for the past 2 yrs. is now in Japan--? I doubt VERY
   much if American butchers would supply the traditional ingredients,
   which is also why it's so hard to obtain here--I can't ask for it at our
   local Giant Eagle Supermarket.

I believe that you can buy it by mail order from Charles MacSween And Son,
130 Bruntsfield Place, Edinburgh EH10 4ES, Scotland, phone +44 31 229 1216.
You may still have difficulty getting it past USA customs though.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: fischer@greco-prog.fr (Francois Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scots or Picts (was Celtic alchoholism?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:34:36 GMT
Reply-To: arrakis@hugo.int-evry.fr
Organization: Greco Programmation du CNRS

>"Women of the Celts" by Jean Markel (sp?); that is Jean as in John).
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^
>															GW

His names is: Jean Markale.


On another topic,I've a question:

Where the scottish highlands's Picts related to the Pictonii,a gallic tribe
who lived in the area aroud Poitiers ???


                Nicolas Hurisse (arrakis@hugo.int-evry.fr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:57:06 GMT

From article <CC.92Sep28150818@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke):
> In article <44998@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
> 
> [ lots deleted ]
> 
>    People who "love their countries" don't tend to be terribly attached
>    to the black populations of those countries for example.
> 
>    In the case of those dreadful Siol nan Gaidheal stickers I saw last week
>    in Edinburgh, "loving Scotland" to them probably means booting out the
>    "English White Settlers". This of course has it's appeal ( :-))but I
>    expect they'd soon be after the Black settlers too. 
> 
>    So, I am not a member of the Scottish National Party and never will be,
>    despite hoping for Scottish Independcance in the not too distant future.
> 
> Sure, but I don't see what the SNP has to do with all this.  You might as
> well say, "I don't want to see black people hanging by their necks from
> lamposts, so I'm not a member of the Scottish Conservative Party".  Siol nan
> Gaidheal sound like an extremely nasty lunatic fringe, nothing to do with the
> SNP.
> --
> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
> 
> 		

But one should not forget that nationalism in the past (1930's) in
Scotland had a very strong fascist tint to it, even Hugh McDairid (sp?)
expressed rather fascist sentiments on occasions. Do the SNP say
"Scotland for the Scots" or is the arguement that Scotland should be
independant because it has never voted for the conservatives for the
last X elections (and has therefore been disenfranchised). If the latter
is the arguement then why not include northern England in this
independance movement (has this already been suggested, I do not know?).

My arguement is not against independance, but to be careful as to why
this independance is being sought. Also, what happens if the Shetlands
(or Grampian for that matter) wants to seceed(sp?) from an independant
Scotland?

													GW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: margog@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Margo Garcia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: taking the US thread to another board
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:11:55 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

As another American, I third the suggestion of taking this to another bboard,
especially if Gary Newell goes with it.

Margo Garcia
From: merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Seamus Heaney
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:02:11 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department
In-reply-to: ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk's message of 30 Sep 92 14:13:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.141319.7380@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Douglas Clark) writes:

   Seamus lives in Dublin. He spends one term a year teaching at Harvard.
							^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


	Yes last year it was the Spring semer. steI saw him give a
	reading th that was sponsored by the New England Poetry
	Club.


-sjm



--
Sean J. Merritt		         |      Nietzsche che dice?
Dept of Physics Boston University| 	       Boh!	
merritt@budoe.bu.edu		 |
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic ideas of plants
Keywords: celtic languages, celtic culture, plants
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:17:40 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.


  This is in particular to Harri, who started this discussion (I tried
replying to your mail, but was unable to get through for some reason).

  There are articles about Celtic farming and husbandry in the book
"The Celts" (published 1991 for the Venice exhibition),and in the book
"The Celtic Consciousness" (ed. by O'Driscoll I believe).  Also, the
book "The Pagan Celts" by Anne Ross has some good general statements about
Celtic use and attitudes about trees and plants.  Pay attention in this
book for example to: the motif of the tree branch, and the archaeological
artifact found in Ireland which is a metal branch.

  The tree branch was a token of the poetic class.  An Otherworld
visitor (usually female) coming to take a mortal to the Otherworld
usually carried as a token a silver branch from which hung apples.

  Particularly important in the Irish tradition is the hazel nut.  It
symbolized knowledge and wisdom, and it is from eating this that the salmon
also symbolizes knowledge.  Note also Ross' mention of the Celtic image
of the boar, and its eating of the hazel.

  Also particularly important is the apple, and its association with the
Otherworld.  "Avalon" being a notable example in the P-Celtic tradition
and "Emain Abhlaich" in the Q_Celtic.

  Hope this helps!
  mn
From: downey@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: RE:  *SMILE*  For angus......
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:10:55 GMT
Organization: NIST


Aengus Lawlor writes:
>  Learn to read!  (directed at Suzanne)

Sir, I suggest you learn to better formulate your objections, rather than
hurling insults.  Even sarcasm, satire, and anger are acceptable, but not
RUDENESS!  I know you can read this comment; I can only hope you
comprehend it.

Give 'em hell Holly!

Give 'em hell Suzanne!

Laura
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: rz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach)
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
Reply-To: zach@csdec1.tuwien.ac.at
Organization: Technische Universit"at Wien
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:01:26 GMT

In article <22577@galaxy.ucr.edu>, starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (starbuck) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep28.101050.11573@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
|> 
|> -No it is not. It is rooted in the fact that we have seen how
|> -nationalism has contributed to wars, death, imperialistic
|> -conquest, suppression of minorities, racism and many other evils.
|> -Nationalism of the sort which Americans find natural and
|> -unexceptional is in Europe regarded as the height of bad
|> -manners, boorish and dangerous.
|> -
|> -Matthew Huntbach
|> 
|> It might be of benifit to you to read some European history.  I would start
|> with the histroy of Britian in India, then perhaps the history of Germany.
|> If you want examples of racism, suppression of minorities, mperialistic 
|> conquest, war, and many other evils you'll find them all in your own history.
|> 
|> starbuck

I think that was exactly the point Matthew was trying to make:
Europe *has* seen what it leads to and that is why it is *now*
regarded as "the height of bad manners, boorish and dangerous."

-- 
Richard Zach                      [zach@csdec1.tuwien.ac.at]
Technische Universitaet Wien, Institut fuer Computersprachen
Resselgasse 3/185.2,     A-1040 Vienna,       Austria/Europe
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: European superiority
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:15:48 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

In article <1992Oct4.212735.10717@morrow.stanford.edu> silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:
>there is a rather strong sentiment in favor of discounting the lives, 
>thoughts, and values of celtic people born in lands outside the aboriginal 
>celtic regions.

  It's not an uncommon factor no matter where you go, unfortunately.

  I have 'lived' in Maine for three years now.  But I'll never actually "live"
  here thanks to a form of provincialism.  As a local comic puts it: "Both
  your parents could've been native Mainers, but if you are born outside the
  border -- even if your mother is in a car racing at three-hundred MPH toward
  the state line -- by even a foot, and even if you live the rest of your life
  in Maine, you will forever be 'From Away.'"  And, as an ad for some in-state
  company puts it: "If you don't like this attitude, move to Boston."

  Sometimes, this attitude amuses me.  Other times, it sickens me.

  It's no different here.  I'm part Scot and part Irish (and part Danish, but
  that doesn't enter the picture here).  My father has played the pipes for
  slightly more than twice my life-span, and now I play.  I'm more comfortable
  in a kilt than in pants.  And so on.

  *None* of that, according to the popular wisdom here, means a damn thing.
  I was born in America, am an American, and therefore, my opinions and views
  have no merit.

  Welcome to the "real world," I guess.

-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 --------------- Morality and practicality should be congruent. ---------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:56:47 GMT

From article <1992Oct4.082321.3797@rdg.dec.com>, by cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn):
> 
> In article <1992Oct3.232158.7877@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes...
>> 
>>Rather than me make some up.  maybe Craig would like to post some of the
>>topics under discussion in his local Digital group to show what is
>>appropriate in a Scottish forum but not in the general celtic one.
>>-- 
> Here's a few ideas to get you started:
> 
> Irn Bru
>

This should obviously carry a Government Health Warning, since increased
levels of iron in the blood has been linked with heart attacks. There we
now have a discussion going in this group about Irn Bru.

											GW
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Celtic Dance questions
From: Henry Corcoran <CORCORAN@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 11:09:38 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

I have noticed a few posts that refer to Celtic dance. I am interessted in
this and have questions. The terms "caille, set, and traditional" were used.
What type of dances are these, music steps etc? Also reels and jigs are dance
music also. What kind of dance is typically done with this music?

Any postings would be appreciated.
                                  Henry Corcoran
                                  Fargo, North Dakota
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:06:25 GMT
Organization: Not Andrews University

small rayburn burn back 

OK Craig - I agree that your original posting could be reinterpreted
as a advising a woman to save money but it is quite obvious that the
technicality you cling too is <a> A kilt is a male garment and <b> 
women can not there fore wear it and <c> only those who gather at
those ridiculous MALE dominated gaelic gatherings MUST KNOW BEST.

The sophistry of saying that if its a kilt and a woman wears it then
it is obviously a kilt skirt is a little odd..Yes, there are lighter 
weight garments which women wear, but some of us WHO ARE FEMALE and LIVE
in SCOTLAND also wear MALE (ie heavier) kilts bought in second hand
clothes shops and inherited from our mothers/brothers/fathers/sisters.
after all they do not wear out easily - especially if you only wear
the thing once or twice a year at ex-pat gatherings...(%-)

So perhaps when all women in scotland are wearing kilts you'll
accept that THERE IS NOTHING INTRINSICALLY MALE about a kilt - victorian
conventions were surely invented to be broken!! See the trouser - No
I know women don't wear trousers my dear etc etc

douses rayburn with water and expires through smoke fumes......
From: trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Subject: Re: Celtic Nationalism or something similar
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:38:34 GMT



I think it is more a matter that certain morally untidy US types, being denied
the use of the swastika, and wanting to hide their associations with unseemly
and unpopular German connections have opted on the Celts as the next-best
Aryans. Makes the rest of us Celts hopping mad, but it's hard
to root out these idiots without violating their civil rights, and becoming
just like them.

Plus these are usually a class thing, and in the Pacific Northwest (which a
couple of their leaders have decided is "perfect" for them and encouraged them
to move here..oh joy!)-: there is a population of loggers and such, descended
quite often from the Scot/Irish/Scots-Irish pioneers. They are in a dying
industry, and very ripe for anything that makes them feel "superior" in their
misery. This is an old story, being enacted everywhere in the world at some
time or other, and very sad. Since more of these "target people" are of Celtic
descent than German, they have cleverly picked Celtic mythos and symbolism to
hide behind, while recruiting.

Makes one wish one could put aside conscience and take advantage of our loose
gun laws, it does... (But once again, that's stooping to their level. )-:

So far as I know, the German Neo-Nazis stick to the more historic German model
while attacking those poorer than themselves.

Buzzards fighting over scraps, all of them...

Suze

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:02:23 GMT

In article <23455@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>
> I'm curious how Sinead's little act on the most recent Saturday Night
>Live show is being taken in Ireland and the UK. I happened to be watching
>the show with my wife and daughter and must say I was surprised when she
>decided to end the Marley song that way. I know little about her - where
>was she born? Is she Catholic? Is this simply an attack on the influence
>that the Catholic church has had on Ireland or is this simply a case
>of catholic-bashing?

Americans!!  Taking this seriously:-).  Unless you hadn't noticed Ms. O'Connor's
entire act from her hairdo, illegitimate child, abortions, the bullshit
about the American flag a while back are all designed to shock, to help her
sell more records.  Most Irish people attempt to ignore her, in the expectation
that if noone pays any attention, she'll stop behaving like an ass (apologies
to all donkies) and go away (or at least stop getting media attention).

I am sure she is really upset that the University of Notre Dame Student Senate
has called on NBC, our most benelovent benefactors :-), to apologise, and
it was covered on the front page of the University rag.  It would be much 
better to ignore her.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Keywords: Orange marches Ireland
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:44:03 GMT

--
In article <1992Sep30.070155.12571@netcom.com>, eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart) writes:

|>Fascinating ... I never knew this.  It seems ironic that Orange marches
|>would occur in the county with Ireland's largest Gaeltacht.
|>
|>The stated purpose of the Orange marches has been for expression of pride
|>in Protestantism and "Britishness", but it seems that their main purpose
|>in the North is to intimidate the nationalist population.  This would be
|>pointless in the Republic, so I would guess that the marches' purpose
|>would be the former.

Yes it is the former.  They don't go around singing sectarian songs etc.
Not sure about the British thing as most protestants in this country would
consider themselves Irish not British.

|>How are they viewed by the majority population of Donegal and Cavan?

Apparently quite a few come out to watch the parade.  I'm going on a very
hazy memory here but I think there's a march in Rosnowlagh (sp?).  Anyone
know where the Cavan march is held?


       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:56:12 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Oct3.225849.7634@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
> But thanks anyway, without postings like this we might run out of the
> inclination to American bash.

 Oh I doubt it - one can pretty much count on it at least twice a year. Also note
that this was going along quite well before I decided to laugh at it...


			gln
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:12:35 GMT
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

--

In article <BvCHKL.801@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

|>
|>>You obviously came upon one of the few Orange marches in the Republic.
|>
|>Someone tell me Garry is having a wee joke here!
|>
|>Orange marches in the Republic??

Dave, seriously there are a few.  Generally in the Donegal and Cavan
areas.



       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:08:18 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Sep29.190126.13274@email.tuwien.ac.at>, rz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach) writes:
> In article <22577@galaxy.ucr.edu>, starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (starbuck) writes:
> I think that was exactly the point Matthew was trying to make:
> Europe *has* seen what it leads to and that is why it is *now*
> regarded as "the height of bad manners, boorish and dangerous."

 OH man - you guys crack me up!!! You almost sound serious when you say these 
things.... Europe now realizes how horrible these things are!!!!!????!!! Oh
please stop I can't take it..... Is there even another single soul out there
who finds the hypocrisy of such statements in a Celtic newsgroup almost
beyond belief??? Britain has been involved in an active and often deadly
police action for how many decades now? The Falklands and the nationalistic
euphoria which went along with that "war" was when? Give us a break will
ya? I mean the Germans seem willing to take up where they left off,
the Italian government is a joke, we need not even talk about Eastern 
Europe I assume.... exactly where do you folks get off telling anyone
how to rule/feel/behave as a nation? "Height of bad manners" - geezuz,
besides the pompous nature of the remark, the hypocrisy is almost
endless.... as if the goal of all nations should be to receive positive
judgement from the British or even better all of Europe.... somebody
give these guys a dose of reality please....


				gln
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:01:09 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

spain@galvia.enet.dec.com writes:

>In article <BvCHKL.801@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>|>>You obviously came upon one of the few Orange marches in the Republic.
>|>
>|>Someone tell me Garry is having a wee joke here!
>|>
>|>Orange marches in the Republic??

>Dave, seriously there are a few.  Generally in the Donegal and Cavan
>areas.

Amazing!!...but I thought they'd have been about as welcome as Eddie Murphy
at a Klu Klux Klan meeting?

Oh well, the joys of Usenet, learn something new every day.

Out of curiosity, do any of the Northern Ireland Orange bas^H^H^H personalities
attend? Like Paisley or Robinson?

Dave
--
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sir Walter Scott
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:14:39 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: Not Andrews University

Without immediately phoning my mother for details I remember seeing
a complete set of Blackwoods magazines in a large second hand shop
in Kendal which took up a whole 3 storey house - I mean the shop not
the magazines! Though they took up  a lot of room too and were 
pretty expensive as a whole lot. Scott serialised his writings in these
magazines and I am sure that contacting a shop like that would result
eventually in collecting the set you seek - but I think it would
be very very expensive. My ma has some of his first editions in not
very good nick bound in the distinctive Blackwoods red(leaky) cardboard.
The print is dead small and the paper thin.
In fact antiquarian book shops in edinburgha re probably a best bet - and
they issue a catalogue of all Scottish bookselleres every year.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic