From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Any value in religion?? WAS Re: A Reply to "Sources of 'Real' Atheism
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:40:19 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Nov16.235344.22881@adobe.com> mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
>bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
>>mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:
>>>bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
>>>>shari@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Wild and Crazy Kind of Girl) writes:
>>>>>	One thing I am interested in finding out is how many athiests or
>>>>>agnostics actually think religion has any value??  My dad is an athiest,
>>>>
>>>It is not enough to show that religion is doing some good. You need be
>>>able to show that the good aspects outweigh the bad aspects.
>>
>>  I need do no such thing.  I answered the question as posed.
>
>I may have missed some of the context in the original question but if
>you don't weigh the good and the bad, then I could just as easily say
>that murder is of value to society because the now deceased person
>won't compete with the rest of us for scarce resources.

  I have left the original question intact above.  

  It asks if religion has any value.  The obvious answer is yes.  It
  does not ask if religion has overall net positive value.  And yes,
  from a strictly logical perspective, murder does have some value
  to society.  In the last paragraph of my post, I also stated
  that I thought society would be better off w/o religion, implying
  that I too think the negative aspects of religion outweigh the
  good.

>>  I think your view of religion has been somewhat tainted by the
>>  very vocal minority.  
>
>Maybe. But I get very worried when I hear about situations like Prop 9
>in Oregon (supposedly a very progressive state) where 44% of that
>state voted for the anti-homosexual bill. 

  (Note my address).  Would it then surprise you to hear that nearly
  every mainstream religious organization in the state publicly opposed 
  Measure 9?  The bulk of the support for measure 9 came from
  evangelical christians (the vocal minority I referred to) and from
  homes with annual incomes under $30,000.  Get rid of the frothing
  fundies, throw in some education for the blue collar worker, and
  the vote's not even close.  Religion can be blamed for the
  conception of Measure 9, but is only one factor in its widespread
  appeal.


>It distresses me that more
>than a century after the Civil War (how's that for an oxymoron) and a
>generation after the Civil Rights Movement, racism is alive and well
>in this country. Maybe not as overtly as before, but it is still with
>us nonetheless.
>

  But getting rid of religion won't cure the problem.  Racism is not
  a religious issue.

  There is endless debate going on to determine if social influences
  are adequate to explain the differences in IQ scores between
  races.  If the question is ever answered, and if one race is shown
  to be "inferior" (let's not start a debate on the utility of IQ
  tests). you can bet there will racism like that unheard of in this
  country.  Independent, and quite possibly contrary to, any
  religious influence.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"Look, I tried the cat experiment.  On the third trial, the cat was
dead.  On each of the subsequent 413 trials, it remained dead.  Am I
doing something wrong?"
			James Nicoll

Q.  How many Heisenbergs does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A.  If you know the number, you don't know where the light bulb is!