From: GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .17 vs. .223 for varmits?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:54:51 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

In article <harri.725995125@camelot> harri@camelot.bradley.edu (Thomas Friday) writes:
#In <2935028528.1.p00140@psilink.com> p00140@psilink.com (Gary A. Woodward) writes:
#
##not choose to reload at least in the begining-so exotic calibres are 

If you want accuracy for long shots, it'll be to your advantage to
reload.  Start out like most of us and buy a simple single-stage press
and a set of dies and a GOOD reloading manual, not to mention the
supplements from the powder manufacturers on loads for their powders.

Go out to the range and then experiment and find out what your weapon
likes the best.

##out.  Also a recommendation for a good variable X scope would be 
##appreciated. Thanks in advance. 

Well, since you're dealing with LITTLE targets, best bet would probably
be to go for as much magnification as you can afford.  I have a 6.5x-20x
Simmons Silhouette scope on my Winchester M70 Varminter.  If I remember
correctly, I spent ~$200 for it.  Leupold, Zeiss, etc, make excellent
choices, but be prepared to spend.

#hmmm.. im kind of wondering what you mean by "long range", because if
#you mean what most people mean, ( > 400 yards) i think very few people

Good point...  How far are you considering as "long?"  If you are
thinking about >400, you better be damn good... :-)  Groundhogs are
little as it is...

#believe) so they dont retain energy well at long ranges.  the .223 
#uses better weight bullets, but they are lacking in velocity even 
#when fresh out of the muzzle.  the "hot" .22 calibers (.22-250 and 

The .223 is comparable to the .222 mag and its good for varmints to
about 250 yards.  I believe that the .222 is about the same.  If you
want an out-of-the-box accurate round, the triple deuce is one of them.

#.220 swift) are good, but most people would not use those if they 

As for the .22-250 and the .220 Swift, they are almost ballistically
identical (so says Speer) since the .22-250 has 95% the case capacity of
the .220 Swift.  They are good out to 350 yards (safe bet).  One problem
is that they shoot relatively light bullets and are affected by wind.  I
have a Winchester in .22-250 and have had no problems with it, as long as
it isn't too windy...

#i believe for long-range hits most people would select something of at
#least .25 caliber (.25-06 might be a popular choice, or maybe some 6.5mm
#cartridges).. as far as more specific recommendations, i dont know
#offhand as i am not an expert in these areas. i do recommend you find
#Boyd Mace's _The Accurate Varmint Rifle_, as i believe Mace is
#considered quite an authority  on such things. 

Most reloading guides have "varmint" loads for most of the rifle cartridges 
up to .30 caliber.  You have choices anywhere from .223 (don't know
anything about .17 Rem) to .243 to 7mm Rem Mag to .300 Win Mag, etc.
Even cartridges like .308 and .30-06 have varmint loads available.

Many different rifles are available too.  Every major manufacturer has
some kind of varmint rifle--Winchester M70 Varminter, Remington VS/PSS,
Ruger M77V (I like that new M77V based on the MkII action with the
stainless barrel), not to mention old surplus rifles like the 1903
Springfield in .30-06 or the Swede Mauser in 6.5 Swede.  Put a scope on
one and you'll have a potent killer (though 1903 Springfields are too
rare for that--my opinion).  Any GOOD hunting rifle should do; the
varminter's thicker barrel helps dissipate the heat which has negative effects 
on the accuracy of subsequent shots.

#gun.. :-) Anyway, it demands excellent accuracy.. :-)  a good magazine
#for anyone interested in bench rest, varminting, or just accurate
#rifles in general is _Precision Shooting_ (dont have the address,
#sorry)..

Definitely.

#anyway, hope this points ya in the right direction.. 

Best idea probably would be to start with a good quality weapon and pick
a flat-shooting, inherently accurate cartridge.  Best idea for one of
those would be to see what most of the long range shooters are using and
bear in mind that they are going for accuracy first and penetration as
an afterthought--paper is easy to kill. :-)  Pretty much anything up to
.30 cal is perfect for what you're doing.

Hope this helps...

#--
#harri@camelot.bradley.edu 
#I'd rather be getting laid.

AMEN...  (As I hear my wife laughing in the distance... :-))

Greg Hayes
--
Gregory W. Hayes

GWH@UH.EDU	greg@simpsons.cc.uh.edu
DISCLAIMER: I don't get paid enough to have an opinion...
University of Houston