HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov (Przemek Klosowski)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re: Why does this code crash with ACCVIO? (summary, solution)
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:11:54 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.vms
Organization: U. of Maryland/NIST
In-reply-to: przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov's message of 9 Dec 92 15:03:28 GMT

Hello!

Thanks to all who participated in this thread (a reminder: my C
program was crashing because of an access violation on a simple
variable assignment, whereas the debugger executed the assignment
with no problems).

Several folks:
  Arne Vajhxj <ARNE@ko.hhs.dk>
 "D_North@onDEC.LoneStar.Org" <d_north@ondec.lonestar.org>
  rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)
  <SYSMGR@ipg.ph.kcl.ac.uk> Nigel Arnot
  mullens@jamsun.IC.ORNL.GOV (James A. Mullens)
pointed out that the debugger has R/W access to memory that is Read-only
to the user program, so at least one mystery is solved: there really
was an access violation, but the debugger didn't see it as such.

I was able to find the cause: the variable in question was defined 
	char mydata[100];
in a separate module containing _only_ _data_ (this module was
included in the link library). All the other source modules declared
the location as external:
	external char mydata[]; 

The gotcha here was simply that the declared storage was not pulled in
from the library by the linker---it can be seen in the link map,
listing the OVR PSECTs from all modules as having length 0---there was
no corresponding PSECT from the data definition module.  Now,
obviously, the access violation resulted from the attempt at writing
beyond the PSECT's end. It seems that the linker does not
automatically link in library modules that contain only global data
storage; only modules with global procedures are included in the
executable image. I guess that'll teach me to look at .map files
looking for psects with zero length...

I solved this problem by changing my makefile to include the data
module in the linker command line explicitly, rather than depending on
it being pulled in from the library.

I suspect that the globalref/globaldef extensions of VAX C 
are designed to deal with this linker "feature"; I did not attempt
to use them, even though  GNU CC provides some hacks that emulate 
globaldef/ref; I believe using them involves declaring mydata[] as:
	globalref char* mydata;
instead of 
	external char mydata[]; 

Is that correct? Anyone cares to speculate why a separate keyword is
needed, rather than having "external" cause linking?

I want to thank everyone that answered to my query.

Greetings,


--
			przemek klosowski (przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov)
			Reactor Division (bldg. 235), E111
			National Institute of Standards and Technology
			Gaithersburg, MD 20899,      USA

			(301) 975 6249
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: PROBLEM WITH VAX C                                                              
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:43:26 GMT

In article <Bz5zIo.6FE@dale.cts.com>, glippert@dale.cts.com (George Lippert)
writes:

|>Paul S. Winalski (winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com) wrote:
|>> Programmierer@BEIZ.mediatex.ch (055485666: MEDIAtex AG) writes:
|>> |>On VAX-C I receive a message that there is a comma missing between the
|>> |>two constants.
|>> |>
|>> |>how can I force the merging of the constants in VAX-C?
|>> |>
|>> |>in Borland C following two lines are equal after compiling:
|>> |>    printf("one " "two ");
|>> |>    printf("one two ");
|>> You can't.  Sorry.
|>
|>Any Standard C compiler will do this.  The problem is that VAX C isn't ANSI.
|>
|>Shame on DEC for this. Two days from today (ie. 14 Dec 92) will mark the
|>third
|>anniversary of the ANSI approval of the Standard.  How much longer will DEC
|>take!?
|>
|>You could buy a third party Standard C compiler for your VMS machine.  Here's
|>a reference to the only one I know about:
|>
|>* TauMetric, ANSI C for VMS, La Mesa, CA, Sue Lindsey (Sales) 619.697.7674

DEC C for alpha claims to be standard ANSI. It is also to be avaliable for VAX
at some point by the looks...

In the meantime the hack :-

printf ("%s%S", "one", "two");

works provided "one" and two are not intended to contain "%" stuff.

Three years for implementation of ANSI standards ain't that bad. When do you
think the FORTRAN 90 compilers will be out? 

ANSI C is a plot to make everyone buy another copy of K&R.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Xref: sparky comp.os.vms:19250 vmsnet.sysmgt:396
From: madsen@admin.usask.ca (Jorgen Madsen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.sysmgt
Subject: Re: Using 3100 Mdl 30 Ports as a console
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:36:01 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Distribution: world
Reply-To: madsen@admin.usask.ca (Jorgen Madsen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: madcap.usask.ca


In article <1992Dec8.093653.20652@yang.earlham.edu>, alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu writes:
|>
|>The setup:
|>
|>A VAXStation 3100 Mdl 30 (on my desck, running DecWindows), a VAX 4000-200, and
|>a VAX 3100 Mdl 80, all DECNetted.  The 4000-200 and the 3100 Mdl 80 have LA120
|>Consoles.  The 3100 Mdl 30 is almost always up.
|>
|>I would like to use the two serial ports on the back of the 3100 Mdl 30 as
|>console ports for the 3100 Mdl 80 and the 4000-200.
|>
|>I can do this right now using Kermit and "log session", but I would rather have
|>a background process that records the info as it comes in and saves the data to
|>disk as it comes in, and still allows me to connect to the port so I can log
|>in.  C-Kermit doesn't allow two people access to a port at the same time, as
|>far as I can tell.  The background process would then run whether I was logged
|>into the VAXStation or not.  Right now this wouldn't be a big deal because I am
|>almost always logged in (and use "Session/Pause" in the evenings).
|>
|>Any insite or programs that would allow me to do this would be appreciated.
|>
|>Thanks,
|>Alan Moore                              alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
|>System/Network Manager, Postmaster      (317)983-1437
|>Earlham College
|>Richmond, IN
|>
|>

I would suggest that you investigate VCS (Vaxcluster Console System). We are
using it to control 17 systems (Ultrix & VMS) and are extremely pleased with it.

Jorgen Madsen		madsen@sask.usask.ca
System Support
University of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Sask. Canada
From: ARNE@KOPC.HHS.DK (Arne Vajhxj)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Copy login.com foo.foo /allocate=10000
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:35:24 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> We just recently defragged (two days) our disk and I tried the procedure given.
> I ended up with the login.com info followed by 9990+ blank blocks so it would
> seem to be valid.  Maybe another good reason for defragging disks?

More likely: you have highwater-marking enabled ! (it is default since
VMS 5.0)

                                                          Arne

Arne Vajhxj                             local DECNET:  KO::ARNE
Computer Department                     PSI:           PSI%23831001304030::ARNE
Business School of Southern Denmark     Internet:      ARNE@KO.HHS.DK
From: nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk (Neil Readwin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: C programming question under VMS
Keywords: VMS,C
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:23:49 GMT
Organization: Micrognosis, a division of CSK(UK) Ltd

In article <2398@sdrc.COM>, scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) writes:
|> In article <Bz1s8H.55C@micrognosis.co.uk>, [ I wrote ]
|> > You can do what the original poster
|> > asked by opening with mode "a+" and the using fseek to rewind the file.
|> 
|> If that really overwrites the previous contents of the file, it's a bug
|> in VAXCRTL and should not be relied upon.

Even though it is clearly not conformant with ANSI C I disagree that it is
a bug (since it appears to be consistent with the documentation), however,
I might concede broken-by-design :-) Neil.
-- 
 Phone: +44 71 815 5283  E-mail: nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk
 Anything is a cause for sorrow that my mind or body has made
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Why does this code crash with ACCVIO? (tangent)
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:24:51 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

>[several people]
>pointed out that the debugger has R/W access to memory that is Read-only
>to the user program, so at least one mystery is solved: there really
>was an access violation, but the debugger didn't see it as such.
>
>przemek@rrdstrad.nist.gov (Przemek Klosowski)

i beg to differ.  while the above may be true, i find that loading the
debugger causes pointers which would be left to zero during a /NODEBUG run
to sometimes be left with valid addresses, so the program continues.

admittedly, not very often, but it still happens.

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
From: kraftjoel@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Keyboard Repair
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:38:08 CST
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA


Does anyone know of any company that would repair terminal _keyboards_?
We have a few DEC LK201 keyboards that are in need of repair, and don't
have the facilities to do it ourselves.  Replacing the keyboard is over
half of the cost of just buying a new terminal.  Or if anyone knows of a
place that possibly would sell just keyboards at a more reasonable price.

Thanks,
Joel Kraft
System Manager
Buena Vista College
From: Jerrod@Lilly.Com (Jerrod T. Carter)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Wanted: New Kermit
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:15:31 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Eli Lilly & Company
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11X-XXMessage-ID: <A7561FE3C2010103@venus.d46.lilly.com>X-XXDate: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:15:31 GMTLines: 9

I'd like to know what the latest version of Kermit for VMS
is and where I can get it. I am specifically looking for
a version that will allow packet sizes up to 1024 bytes
and does sliding windows.

Please reply directly to me with e-mail because I don't
read this group. Thanks.

Jerrod Carter Jerrod@Lilly.Com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: ctanski@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Tanski)
Subject: Monitor
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 00:16:46 GMT


Can someone tell me of a way to prevent my acct. from being watched with
the monitor command. Please reply directly to ctanski@nyx.cs.du.edu.
Thanks.

Chris Tanski
From: lee@hsh.com (Lee Havemann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Can't get ETAPE from mailserv%
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:19:51 GMT
Organization: HSH Associates


I have requested ETAPE twice from mailserv%ualr.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu, and
never received it. (it has been a 2 weeks since the first request, and 3 days 
since the second request.)
 Can somebody either mail it to me or point me in the right direction where I
can get it? 

  Is something wrong with mailserv?

This is from the info-vax listing:

S8      (SEND [ETAPE]ETAPE.SHARE_1_OF_8)  mailserv%ualr.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
        (                       .      )  note: first, ask for 1 - 5, then,
        (                        8_OF_8)  in another request, ask for 6 - 8.


-- 

 Lee Havemann, Comp Ops Dir.    HSH Associates      (201) 838-3330 
 Internet: lee@hsh.com    Compuserve: 70410,3507    AOL: HSH Assoc
 "Any opinions expressed are not necessarily those of anyone else, 
  including myself."
From: jlromero@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx (Ing. Jose Luis Romero Ogawa)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: VMS C with mktime function avaible
Keywords: mktime
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:49:44 GMT
Organization: I.T.E.S.M. Campus Monterrey


I'm trying to use mktime function in a VAX-C program, but this is not
possible. I'm looking for a C compiler on VMS that I can use mktime
function. Any help I appreciate . thanks.

                  jlromero@omega.mty.itesm.mx
From: system@spades.aces.com (SYSTEM MANAGER)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Apending a file at the end of mail.
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: gavron@ACES.COM
Organization: ACES Consulting Inc.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <19338.2b2db363@ecs.umass.edu>, nllopis@ecs.umass.edu writes...
#I was wondering if there was any way of appending
#a specific text file to all the mail is sent from
#VAX. I guess that's pretty easy to do from UNIX, but
#I haven't found a way to do that automatically from
#VAX.
# 
#Any ideas?

	You need to use a mail editor for mail (See HELP SET EDITOR
	in MAIL).

	You need to create an initialization file for your editor.
	For EDT this can be a file pointed to by logical EDTSYS.

	In this initialization file, include your mail signature.
	For example, my edtsys file has:
		inc mail_signature
	where mail_signature is a logical name pointing to a file
	which contains:

	Ehud

--
Ehud Gavron        (EG76)     
gavron@vesta.sunquest.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com (Joseph Slater)
Subject: Re: Item Codes Missing??
Originator: sasjzs@falcon.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:16:04 GMT
Reply-To: sasjzs@vms.sas.com
Organization: Or lack thereof


In article <01GSBG02KQLE004C3D@EKU.BITNET>, STUKING@EKU.BITNET 
("Cogito Ergo Sum.....Cogito") writes:
|>
|>   I noticed in the system service routines manual that two item 
|>codes were not found on the system here.  We're running on a 
|>VAX 6000-610, VMS v5.5.  In the manual, which is also for v5.5, 
|>has JPI$_LAST_LOGIN_I and JPI$_LAST_LOGIN_N mentioned.  However, 
|>I did not find them in any of the header files for C or the Pascal 
|>source code files.  What confuses me more is that you can get the
|>last interactive and non-interactive logins from DCL with F$GETJPI.  
|>Were these item codes accidentally left out?  Or is there 
|>something else to it?  Thanks.
|>
The "official" place to look for these is $jpidef in 
sys$library:starlet.mlb, the macro library. Sometimes the compilers
run behind the version of VMS with the header files. Make sure you
have the latest version of the compilers installed. If you do,
complain to DEC.

Joe Slater
sasjzs@vms.sas.com
Mine opinion is just that.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: ST21519@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU
Subject: DCL program needed
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 18:43:55 CST

I am looking for a program called DCL which will decompress a VMS archive I
have received.  I FTPed the VAX_LIST.TXT and found a system which might be able
to offer the program - SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL - but I cannot seem to find any non
MSDOS directories there....
 
Can anyone lend me a hand in finding a copy of DCL, or a hand in how to get to
the VMS software on the SIMTEL site?
 
Thanks!
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: john@cutler.com (John E. Babbitt Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.misc,vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Problem w/PKUNZIPping PKZIPped & UUENCODEd Files
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:12:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cutler.1992Dec16.091212.323
Organization: Cutler & Company, Inc., Medford OR (503) 770-9000

I suppose you guys have run into this problem before, but I don't see it
being asked often:

I seem to have problem PKUNZIPping files off from the net that were
PKZIPped and then UUENCODEd.  The way I have done it was to...

    1) Extract the posting to a file
    2) Edit out headers
    3) UUDECODE file
    4) Jump into MSDOS and PKUNZIP file (via pathworks, i.e., drive M:)

Same problem with UUENCODEd PKZIPped files via e-mail.  If, however, a
PKZIPped file has first been COMPRESSed and then UUENCODEd, I don't have
any problem extracting files out from it.  I know I'm missing something
obvious... *sigh*, any help there?

Regards,

John E. Babbitt, Jr.        {UUCP: ...hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!cutler!john}
Senior Programmer/Analyst   {Internet: john@cutler.com}
Cutler & Company, Inc.      {Phone: 503/770-9000 (voice) 503/770-9014 (tt)}
Medford, Oregon  97504      {Disclaimer: What I say is my personal opinion}
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Security problem for gurus.
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:18:16 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <01GS5SYA99MG0027YA@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>, SK0001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU (Sal Kabalani) writes:
=P>         o  I don't want to clear the DIRECTORY file characteristic bit
=P> 
=P>         o  I want to be able to access my directory whenever I need to
=
=A> It IS impossible, because when they have all privs, then they can easily
=A> get their process to look like yours (UIC,USERNAME etc.), so unless you
=A> supply a non-VMS-feature like cryptation or the like, then ALL-privs means
=A> just that: ALL-privs.
=
=I do have respoct for your knowledge in VMS, but I must disagree with you on
=this one. It is true that you cannot "protect" files from prived users, but you
=can certainly "hide" them.
=
=What I do is simply rename the directory I want to protect so it does not 
=look like a directory anymore. check this example:

Ah, but that doesn't satisfy the requirement of "I want to be able to access my
directory whenever I need to."  It also means that when the user in question IS
in the process of using the directory, others can still read it.  Arne was
right:  All privs *MEANS* ALL PRIVS.

=Perhaps this violates one of the original conditions given in the problem (No
=clearing of DIRECTORY bit), but it works. 
=
=So as you can see, this completely hides your directory.

Er, no it doesn't.  Somebody with all privs can check to see whether each of
your files looks like a directory file (in particular, they can check to see
whether the directory bit is set), and if so, it's easy for them to read that
directory.

=You can quickly
=rename it back to a .DIR name when you need to use the files.

And so can anybody with all privs.  Or, better still, they can use SET
FILE/ENTER to create a second directory entry pointing to the file without ever
renaming the file in question.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Security problem for gurus.
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:55:02 GMT

>         In other words: do you know of a feasible method of protecting
>         private areas without resorting to the traditional & documented
>         practics? Impossible? That's what I fear! Sigh!
> 

I have two suggestions:

	1) Use security alarms to notify you of access to your files.
	   This doesn't solve the problem, but you'll know when your
	   privacy has been violated.

	2) Hide said directories nine levels down.  You'll need a
	   logical to see them yourself, but the casual user won't
	   know to look.  I'm not sure if Analyze will spot this though.

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
From: TARKA10@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (Mark Tarka)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Thanks - READ/NEW kills phantom mail
Date: 19 Dec 92 13:34:22 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: from SUNY College at Buffalo, NY 14222

The subject line says it all.  Just one more beer, professor, and I
swear I'll consider writing my thesis.  My friend here is also
thirsty....

Mark Tarka
Chemistry Dept.;Buffalo State College; 1300 Elmwood Ave.;
Buffalo, NY, 14222-1095; USA.  (716)878-6686.  TARKA10@SNYBSCVA

Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: sw4847@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: F$getjpis
Reply-To: sw4847@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 06:45:35 GMT

Can anyone explain to me how the F$getjpi function works? Or tell me where to
find the info on the function?
Please Reply by E-mail because I don't read this group often.
Thanks
							Scott Weinstein
							University at Albany
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: brianm@boar.tansu.com.au (Brian Martin)
Subject: Re: $QIO: What happens within?
Reply-To: brianm@boar.tansu.com.au
Organization: AOTC - CSSC
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:32:36 GMT

re: $QIO: What happens within?

I am unsure who posted the original question, I've seen only Jerry Leichter's
reply, which I generally agree with.
Without wishing to contradict, I hope the following is useful ...

QIO's can be done in many ways, depending on the IO driver. In the case of mailboxes 
(MBX) especially, you should read both SYS$QIO() in System Services manl,
and also Mailbox Driver support in I/O Users Manual.
Note that physical/logical/virtual i/o are treated the same by VMS MBX driver.
Note the special optimisation in the driver, which is that when you QIO write to
a MBX, if a pending read is already outstanding, then the data is copied directly
to the pending reads buffer (normally in another tasks address space) without
ever going through the (system allocated) buffers which store the MBX proper.
How literally this is true I do not know, but it seems borne out in practice,
and is explained (very badly) in the I/O users manual, and again in incredible detail
in the "VMS Internals" book (author ?).
If there is no pending read, then the data is actually copied into the MBX buffer,
and at a later time copied from there into the readers specified buffer.

When using QIO (not QIOW) the only safe way is to use either globals or malloc'd
space, for the read/write buffers, the lengths, and the IOSB blocks if used.
Finally check the status of the original QIO, the status of the IOSB on completion,
& the length actually read/written in the IOSB against what you requested.

Hope that helps.
Brian Martin
brianm@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au


Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: stevens@vms.macc.wisc.edu (PAul STevens - MACC - 2-9618)
Subject: Re: anonymous mail?!?
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 11 DEC 92 12:15:15    

In article <01GS5GWJYVCY8WW5SC@kopc.hhs.dk>, ARNE@ko.hhs.dk (Arne Vajhxj) writes...

>> Does anyone know how to send anonymous VMS Mail messages?  I don't have
>> SYS privileges nor OPERATOR privileges.
> 
>I find it very hard to think at any benefits from sending mail anonymously
>unless you plan to send insulting messages to your boss or something like
>that.
> 

    I cannot imagine a good reason for doing what you want to do.
    But I seem to learn something new with every book I pick up.
    So I obviously don't understand everything yet.  I will
    assume you are a reasonable person until shown otherwise.

    If I wanted to send mail anonymously, I would do it using
    BSMTP.  TELNET to a machine at port 25 and
    pretend you are some other machine.  Many (probably most)
    mailers will make no attempt to prevent this.  Ours will
    make an entry in the log but will happily forward the mail.
    I have done this successfully but not for reasons of
    anonymity (sp?).

    I don't know how to do it within VMS.  I doubt it is possible
    without privileges.


                 PAul