From: ahsan@kraft.ecn.purdue.edu (Ahsan Ale-Rasool)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: The FALSE prophet from Qadiyaan
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:00:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Apr7.000040.24653
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


$  In <1992Mar30.194206.7334@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ahsan@snail.ecn.purdue.edu 
$  (Ahsan Ale-Rasool) writes:
$
$  >Pure Kufr. Now he himself admitted that he committed SHIRK.  
$
$  I sure would like to reply to you. But first I have to make sure that I am
$  arguing with a person who is really after truth and is not arguing just for
$  the sake of arguments and who keeps his eyes and mind open to any 
$  reasonable argument presented to him. While replying to my letter addressed 
$  to Mr. Marwan  you have shown a very typical attitude of Anti-Ahmadiyya
$  writer. You have very cleanly picked up some thing out of context and
$  said that look he himself says he was god. This was the allegation made by
$  Mr. Marwan in the same way as yourself. Can I ask you that while quoting from
$  my letter, why did you leave  out the part where I try to 
$  answer this allegation. Would you please do that if you wanna show you
$  are real honest person and have clean intentions and we will go from
$  there.
$ 
$  Thank you very much.
$
$  Regards
$  Nasir Ahmed Noor
$  umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca



Mr. Nasir Ahmed Noor,
      Why did you delete my letter? I did not take any thing out of context.
Following are your own wordings :

>   2)  "I WAS GOD"
>   Hazrat Ahmad indeed had a vision that he was God:  "I saw in a vision that I
>   was God and in that state I did believe that I was God" 
>   (Aaeena Kamaalat-i-Islam Page 564).


These are the words of Mr. Qadiani Dude that you quoted, not me. It does not 
matter what explanations he gives afterwards, the very utterance of this
statement that "I did believe that I was God" is enough. The Prophet Muhammad
                      ~~~~~~~
(P.B.U.H) never said something even close to that. I don't care how this
Qadiani Dude justifies this saying by unknown hadeeths or completely twisting
the meaning of some known Hadeeth. All I know is that the guy must be out of
his minds when he said that. And by the way, you quote from a lot of unknown
Islamic sources. Please quote only from the standard books (Sihah-e-Sitta).
I don't care who says what in which book unless the source is reliable. People
like the qadiani dude have fabricated a lot of sayings not attributed to
the prophet or their companions. So please stick to the standard Hadeeth
books. You perhaps made the largest blunder by quoting the above saying
of the qadiani dude. You yourself have shown him to be Kafir.

And by the way, why didn't you answer my questions?
The Hadeeths in Bukhari and Muslim clearly show that the DAJJAL will be 
a physical living creature (not an abstract thing) and that Isa (P.B.U.H) 
would kill him. When did your Qadiani dude kill a Dajjal? Instead he died
in a pile of excretory products ( a better name for SHIT ).


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The Hadiths in Sahih Al-Bukhari and Sahih Al-Muslim about the coming of Isa 
ibn-Maryam (May peace be upon them) clearly say that he (Jesus) will descend 
at the time of morning (FAJR) prayers and will be asked to lead the prayers but he will pray behind the leader of Muslims and that the Dajjal will start melting
on his sight and that he (Jesus) will kill the Dajjal near Lod close to the Dead
Sea. (You can go and check in Bukhari and Muslim).


On the contrary the Ghulam Qadiani did not do anything like Jesus was supposed
to do and instead died in a PILE OF SHIT. Then how can you say that this 
impostor fulfilled in his person the second coming of Jesus as prophecied by
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and on his progeny and on the Ummuhat al-
momineen). I think Mirza Qadiani fulfilled another prophecy by the Prophet
Muhammed (PBUH) which says that there will be thirty false prophets before
the Last Hour.(Ref. Al-Bukhari). Mirza Qadiani is certainly one of them as was 
Muslemma Kadhab and Bab and Bahaullah and perhaps others false prohets whom
I do not know.
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Perhaps Mr.Qadiani got this idea of the new prophet from the BAHAIS' since both
of you have the same source: The Britishers.
Don't you share similar thoughts?
********************************************************************************


>  IN THE END, I will reply to the allegation that the Ahmadis are non-Muslims.
>  What is the definition of a Muslim?  We turn to none other than the Prophet
>  Muhammad (peace be upon him) for the answer:
>  "A person who observes the prayer that we do and faces Qibla and eats our
>  Zabeeha meat is a Muslim" (Bukhari).
>  We, the Ahmadi Muslims believe and practice all the above.
>
>  Regards
>  Nasir Ahmed Noor
>  umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca



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Would you consider a person who believes in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the 
son of god (Na'oodhobillah) but still observes the prayer and faces Qibla 
and eats Zabeeha as a Muslim? Certainly not. My friend this Hadeeth is for
a person who has the correct belief. The Nusayris of Syria do all the above
mentioned things but they are not considered Muslims. Please try to understand
the meaning of a Hadeeth before interpreting it. One may pray ten times a day,
observe two months of fasts, give 5% as Zakah but if he does not believe that
Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is the last of the messengers of ALLAH and that there is no
prophet after him, deliberately and knowingly, HE IS NOT A MUSLIM. THIS IS THE
IJMA'AH OF THE WHOLE ISLAMIC UMMA'H IN ALL TIMES, AND THE WAY OF THE PIOUS 
COMPANIONS AND TAABIYEENS AND TABA-TAABIYEENS. THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
********************************************************************************





              MORE QUESTIONS FROM MR. NASIR AHMAD NOOR.
********************************************************************************
Mr. Noor , I will listen to your arguments as long as they are logical. 
Your Qadiani messiah did not do any thing that was prophecized about maseeh.
On top of that, Mr Qadiani even abrogated JIHAAD. Who is he to overwrite the
commandments of ALLAH (SWT) when even the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) could 
not do that? Answer this question. What about the Ahadeeth in which the 
Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) said,"There is no prophet after me" and what
about the statement of ALLAH,(close to the meaning) "And on this day we
have perfected the religion" after the Hajj. How can then some person 
abrogate  the orders of ALLAH.

I have another question from you? Why does the other group (i.e Lahori group of 
Qadiyani's believe that Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is the last messenger  and Mirza 
Ghulam Ahmad himself believed that there is no Prophet after him? I think
Mr. Arshad Hussain who identifies himself as an Ahmedi sent an article showing
that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself believed in the finality of MUHAMMAD's (P.B.U.H)
Prophethood. If that is right then why are you accusing your own Mirza Ghulam AQ
of claiming himself to be a prophet. I'll attach Mr.Arshad Hussain's article
********************************************************************************


%  From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
%  Subject: Reply to Mr. Mubarak
%  Message-ID: <1992Apr6.145714.2022@prism.poly.edu>
%  Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
%  Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 14:57:14 GMT

%  >From: jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak)
%  >
%  >Can you, Mr Hussain, explain to me how the Lahori sect of Ahmedis can
%  >believe that the Mirza was not a prophet while he himself claimed to
%  >be one?

%  Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad used the word NABI for himself in 
%   the sense that ca be found in dictionary. 
%  He has repeatedly said that anybody who does not like the word
%  can replace it by MUHADDIS/MUJADID.
%
%  He was the TRUE believer of Final Prophethood of Holy prophet 
%  Muhammad(PBUH).
%  Here are some of his own words.

%  1.   He quotes the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse of the Quran (33:40), and
%       translates it into Urdu as follows:
%
%       "That is to say, Muhammad is not the father of any man from among
%       you, but he is the Messenger of Allah, and the one to end the
%       prophets. This verse also clearly argues that, after our Holy
%       Prophet, no messenger shall come into the world." (Izala Auham,
%       p. 614)
% 
%       His Urdu words are: aur nabiun ko khatam karnay wala (and the one to end
%  the prophets).
%
%  2.   Again, quoting the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse, he writes in an
%       Arabic book: "Do you not know that the Merciful God has declared
%       our Holy Prophet to be the Khatam al-anbiya UNCONDITIONALLY, and
%       our Holy Prophet has explained this in his words: There is no
%       prophet after me." (Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 81-82)
%  
%  3.   "The Holy Prophet had repeatedly said that no prophet would come
%       after him, and the hadith `There is no prophet after me' was so
%       well-known that no one had any doubt about its authenticity. And
%       the Holy Quran, every word of which is binding, in its verse `he
%       is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin', confirmed
%       that prophethood has in fact ended with our Holy Prophet." (Kitab
%       al-Barriyya, p. 184)
%
%  4.   "In brief, God by naming the Holy Prophet as Khatam an-nabiyyin
%       in the Quran, and the Holy Prophet himself by saying `There is no
%       prophet after me' in Hadith, had settled the matter that no
%       prophet can come after the Holy Prophet, in terms of the real
%       meaning of prophethood." (ibid., p. 185, footnote)
%
%  5.   "I firmly believe that our Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam
%       al-anbiya, and after him no prophet shall come for this Muslim
%       people, neither new nor old." (Nishan Asmani, p. 28)
%  
%  6.   "The actual fact, to which I testify with the highest testimony,
%       is that our Holy Prophet is the Khatam al-anbiya, and after him
%       no prophet will come, neither an old one nor a new one."
%       (Anjam Atham, p. 27, footnote)
%  
%  7.   "The fact that our Holy Prophet is the Khatam al-anbiya also
%       requires the death of Jesus because if another prophet comes
%       after him, he cannot remain the Khatam al-anbiya ... The return
%       of Jesus is not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Quran, but THE
%       ENDING OF PROPHETHOOD IS MENTIONED PERFECTLY CLEARLY. To make a
%       distinction between the coming of an old prophet [i.e. Jesus] and
%       a new prophet is mischievous. Neither the Hadith nor the Quran
%       make such a distinction, and the negation contained in the hadith
%       report `There is no prophet after me' is TOTAL. What audacity,
%       boldness and insolence it is to depart from the clear meaning of
%       the Quran, in pursuit of one's feeble conjectures, and believe in
%       the coming of a prophet after the Khatam al-anbiya! (Ayyam
%       as-Sulh, p. 146)
%  
%  8.   "By saying `There is no prophet after me', the Holy Prophet
%       Muhammad closed the door absolutely to any new prophet or the
%       return of any old prophet." (Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 152)
% 
%  These references are quoted from Zahid Aziz's letter he wrote on the
%  net.
%





NOW WHAT DO YOU SAY MR.NOOR? EVEN  MR. MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI BELIEVES THAT
THERE WILL BE NO PROPHET AFTER MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) AND THAT KHAATIM MEANS FINAL
AND LAST. (Look at pt # 5 and pt # 8 again)

EVEN NOW YOU WANT MUSLIMS TO LISTEN TO YOUR CRAP ?
DO YOU HAVE ANY LOGIC LEFT IN YOU?

INSHA'ALLAH I WILL DIE IN THIS FAITH OF ISLAM WHICH MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.S) PREACHED
AND PRAY THAT MAY ALLAH GIVE YOU GUIDANCE TO EMBRACE ISLAM TOO. AMEEN


PLEASE DO NOT REPLY UNTIL YOU ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS.


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                                                          AHSAN ALE-RASOOL