HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:47:13 GMT
From:         Peter Mandal <eeipml@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

>That is, a crime
>or rap should have both men and women on it, a crime where the victim is black,
>the accused is black and the witnesses are mostly black should have atleast
>a majority of Blacks on the jury.....

>zahir

Is rap a crime in the US now?:-)

Will MC Hammer lose all the millions from years of record sales?:-:-)

(Although, many would think that Hammers form of rap is a crime...:-)

Smile!
          And have a great weekend all!
                                                              Peter
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:09:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ahmed:
      I'm not advocating letting things get "out of hand", but sometimes they
do, and NO still means NO. I'm simply saying that, no matter how far things
go, you still have the right to say no, and the other party has a respon-
sibility to respect that. Letting things go too far may be irresponsible,
but that does not justify a rape.
     ---Krista
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
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Subject: Re: Veils, etc.
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:49:06 GMT
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Doug,

Ask any graduate professor about teaching a graduate class to someone
with no background in the subject....they are lost.....

The wealthy clients now afford a "jury consultation" service to assist them
in selecting ajury, and then afford highly "credentialed" experts to be
on their side and testify because they know that juries, once confused
tend to look to the expert....

Its why marketing is so succesful in America.... one can sell a lot of
things to the lay person....

When juries can be confused, who are testifying in your behalf and the
"credentials" they bring can and does have a devastating effect....the
credentials of the expert become more important...

It is simplistic to think that a jury full of people who have no
funds or experience on, say investing, junk bonds, stock markets and
so on, can become "educated"and evaluate the intricacies to make a
decision on a crime involving stock market fraud....

The powers in charge....have come up with a lot of reasons that
superficially look good ( our election system, our legal system, etc.)
but result in incredible unfairness and discrimination.... where some
black man who holds up a passerby or a liquor store for $25 ends up
spending a longer time in jail than someone who has defrauded millions
of dollars through a more intelligently designed rip off....

Not only do I think a jury should have some background and experience in
the area of the particular crime.... I also think that in such a
heterogenious society, hwere its important for decisions to be perceived
as fair, issues such as race and cvulture should also be included in
jury selection....

When the victim is black, the perpetrator is black, the witnesses are
black, its ridiculous to have a majority "white" jury judging...  To this
day, most black people feel that Mike Tyson is unfiarly in jail because
they could find no more than 3 black jurors to sit on the jury in the
entire state of Indiana...  That an intelligent college freshman is
lying when she states that there is sightseeing to be done in Indianapolis
at 2:00 a.m. (Indianapolis!!!! of all places!)... that she goes into
a hotel room with a man whose womanizer reputation is well known ..at
2:30 a.m. without expecting sex...  Could she have changed her mind and said
"No" at the last minute....  Most black people do not believe a
black man has a chance with a white jury if the woman claims she said "No"...

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 21:09:00 EDT
From:         "ISTA ISTA ISHATARRO MUNDI" <RAFTER@UTKVX.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Emmy,

        Perfect... channelers, ufos, fairies, crystals, etc... what a list! I
think we agree on the nobility and necessity of questioning. What has your
questioning led you to believe?

Brian
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:44:24 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Krista,

You express my views very well.... I just simply say I am an Agnostic...

Now in my 40's, I think it immoral to to waste opportunities to enjoy
this gift of life we have.... we seem to have built so many fears that
we will not reach "Heaven" that we martyr ourselves to that goal...

Zahir
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:22:49 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Erich Honecker...

Klaus,

I haven't thought this out very much but somehow it seems ridiculous to
be so vengeful........ taking a man close to his death bed anyway and
having this public exorcism..... all he wants is to live someplace
quietly till he passes away....he is no harm to society at this time, is he?
Its not like he will encourage or discourage anyone else from doing the
same thing.....

Zahir
From: IQZK100@INDYCMS.BITNET (Gretchen Schirmer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: RE: Right Wings
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:23:29 GMT
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HelloKlaus and Uwe!
Iam Maike Koernig an exchange student in Indianapolis at the School of Social W
ork. Gretchen Sch. gave me the chance to use her E-mail to correspond with you.
I just read the Indianapolis Star and they had an article about "Rioters disrup
t German rally against racism". They are saying ..., but it was left-wing radic
als who tried to spoil the rally Sunday,.. . I can't believe that!!! What the h
ell is going on?It would be great if you can send me serious information about
this.Many thanks in advance,your"upset" maike.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:36:46 MEZ
From:         Uwe Hauck <UWEHAUCK@DOSUNI1.RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE>
Subject:      Re: right wing
              11 Nov 1992 13:35:04 MEZ from <HRZ150@VM.HRZ.UNI-ESSEN.DE>

You absolutely hit the point Heinrich. It is not, that there where
right wing supporters but that there also have been 350 000
peaceful people protesting against violence and all you hear is
"There where right wing aggressions against Richard von Weizaecker"
The kind of impression a foreigner gets of the situation in Germany
is what makes me furious. 300 People are able to create the
impression of the germans being Nazis all over the world.
But that doesn't stop me from demonstrating against right
wing violence. Indeed, it tells me that there has to be a lot more
to be down to correct this false impression
Uwe
From: 4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Ethics
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:38:18 GMT
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Thank you Zahir for your apology.

We all need to know that if we didn't know the intention behind someone's
question(s) let us ask what is his/her intention(s).  Let us not answer question
   (s) like that negativelly.

Alan
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:58:15 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Re : right-wing violence

This is a longstanding debate here in North America. Does giving the
fringe rightists air time on the news and so on not feed into their
plans by giving them more legitimacy than they deserve?

For example, unwitting marketting by the news media and by left
intellectualls over the last 15 years has allowed the religious right in
America to emerge as a powerful political force even though their
own records [ and every poll] shows they can claim the support of
perhaps 2 % of the adult population.

You never debate the merits of an absurdity, because in doing so, you
elevate the absurd. Perhaps the same rule should be applied to the
'new nazis' - not so much ignore them and they will go away as treat them
as the fringe that they are.

At the same time, the 'new nazis' here in Canada and in some centres in the
US are a source of considerable terrorist like violence - against Jews, lesbians
and gays, natives and so on - and this sort of threat cannot be ignored awaY.

So ignoring them might appear to give them carte blanche to continue their
violent attacks while publicising them may well enhance their power.

This is a rock and a hard place dillemma.

Douglass
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:48:39 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.

i think there are many problems regarding representation of Islam..
because what is happening is that people are representing islam the
way they practice rather then showing the teaching of the Prophet and
What GOD has said in the book...what happens is that when people
represent it the way they are practicing is they also present
something which are not part of Islam..this can cause lot of confusion
I believe that media is playing a great role in distorting the real
image of Islam..by giving negtive veiw.....

Ahmed
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Ethics
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:47:59 GMT
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Alan,

I am really very sorry..... I did not know you needed the answers for
school.  I have the questions here....What is Ethics, questions it asks,
relate it to religion, is it imperfect to believe in God, and my
ethical system....

I kept the questions as I would like to think some about them... Its
been some time and they are excellent questions... I may not be
able to provide answers on some of them (or any of them) but I appreciate your
putting them out....they are stimulating...

Once again, my apologies....

Zahir
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:00:53 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Brian:

Gosh, that's a good question...what has my questioning led me to
believe, that beliefs are reflections of ourselves, that we as humans
all want the same things, that there is no one belief that is the True
Belief, that we don't know all the answers to life's mysteries, but
that we also don't need all the answers either.. why not accept
uncertainty... and try to probe what can be probed for any knowledge
that we can pass on to our children about this mysterious universe of
ours...

/EMmy
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:30:35 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: woman as president

Alan,

What I was saying is that a majority of Moslem women do not feel they
should cover their heads and do not do so.... only a majority of
moslem women from certain cultures including the Arab culture do.... For
your information, there are more Moslems, some 90 million, in India
then there are in Iran or Saudi Arabia.....and there are many in
Pakistan, Indonesia and China....and so on....

Zahir
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:02:40 EST
From:         oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.

I hope that Ahmed and Zahir continue the discussion about veils, etc.
and cultural variations within Islam.  It is only recently that the
U.S. has begun to have any significant increase in the Muslim population.
It is still vanishingly small, but there is increasing visibility of
Muslims in our urban areas.

There was recently an annual awards banquet for Muslims in Los Angeles
in which women played a major role both in planning and the receiving
of awards.  One thing that becomes increasingly clear is that there
is a wide spectrum of habits and mores among Muslim men and women about
which I am largely ignorant.

When Salman Rushdie spoke at Columbia University late last year (as I
remember) and I posted excerpts of his speech on this list, I took
his bemoaning of the damage that fundamentalist Muslims have done to
the religion he knows and loves to be simply the complaints of
a utopian intellectual too far out in front of the pack.  But after
getting to know several of my students, both male and female, of the
Muslim religion, from Asia and the Middle East, I'd like to begin
to learn more about the variations in their culture.

Please keep the discussion going.

Oliver Seely
Listowner, XCULT-L
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Hit the limit again.
Date: 6 Nov 1992 22:16:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU () says:

>My sincere apologies to all of you who received rejected postings
>to XCULT-L.  If you have the rejected messages, please forward them
>again to the list and I'll stay on top of things in the future.
>
Oliver, why not just up the limit?  I'm on one that has a 300 message/day
limit, and has been known to hit it.  The listowner over there has told
the rest of us what she did, and why. [mainly because the thing kept locking
up!]  

		Ruth

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:58:00 EDT
From:         "ISTA ISTA ISHATARRO MUNDI" <RAFTER@UTKVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Dogma: every generation's own version

Alan, Chelagoi:

        Indeed, every generation interprets a little differently... and
certainly there is change. For instance, U.S. Christianity today (nationalistic,
capitalistic, "family values") differs significantly from the corporate
Christianity of Jesus' day. However, these differences are small in the greater
"scheme" of things. Each generation interprets anew...

        ... almost like every prisoner in a marching line can step a little to
the left or a little to the right; he can even change his speed so long as he
follows the trail. The trail that is rigidly enforced by gun-toting,
whip-lashing guards. Whether that guard is a God or a principle, so long as it
is given that univocal, tyrranical power, it is equally opressive. These mental
guards must be defrocked. Not killed -- they're as valid as anything else, but
no more valid -- no, their guns and whips must be destroyed so the line of
prisoners (hostages of dogma) can make their own paths and control their own
lives. (I almost sound like a Marxist revolutionary! But that is not what I
mean).

        I am not advocating a life of no beliefs. Rather, a life of many
beliefs...

Brian
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:36:00 EST
From:         ROME4300@SNYPLAVA.BITNET
Subject:      new subscriber

Date sent:  11-NOV-1992 18:56:37
HELLO:
I AM A STUDENT AT SUNY PLATTSBURGH AND HAVE BEEN READING EVERY MESSAGE
IN THIS LIST FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS. I CAN SEE THAT THERE IS CULTURAL
DIVERSITY AND I ENJOY READING EVERYONES RESPONSES. I WOULD LIKE TO GET
SOME OPINIONS ON A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE THAT I RECENTLY READ. IT STATES
THAT THE IRAQI PEOPLE IN BAGHDAD, WERE CELEBRATING THAT PRESIDENT BUSH
LOST THE ELECTIONS. THEY ARE HAPPY THAT BUSH LOST THE ELECTIONS, BUT
SOME OF THEM DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO BILL CLINTON IS. THE ARTICLE ALSO
STATES, THAT GROUPS OF MEN DANCED IN THE STREETS DURING THE MORNING
RUSH HOUR, CHANTING,"BUSH OUT, BUT SADDAM LIVES FOREVER." IRAQI
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WERE ALSO HAPPY THAT BUSH HAD LOST THE ELECTIONS.
THE ARTICLE ALSO POINTS OUT THE FACT THAT "THE AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY
HAS LONG BEEN PERCEIVED IN THE MIDDLE EAST AS FAVORING ISRAEL AT THE
EXPENSE OF THE ARABS".
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS:
HOW CAN THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT BUSH LOST THE ELECTIONS, BENEFIT SADDAM
HUSSEIN'S GOVERNMENT OR THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ? DOES ANYONE OUT THERE
UNDERSTAND THE TYPE OF REASONING THAT GOES ON IN THE MINDS OF THE IRAQI
PEOPLE AND GOVERNMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION.   I LIKE LEARNING
HOW PEOPLE FROM OTHER CULTURES SEE THINGS, AND IN THE PROCESS PICK-UP
AND LEARN THINGS THAT WILL GIVE ME A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE
WHOLE SITUATION. :-)

CESAR A. ROMERO
ROME4300@SNYPLAVA

P.S. : THE NAME OF THE NEWSPAPER IS "THE PRESS REPUBLICAN" PLATTSBURGH
N.Y. NOV. 5, 1992.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:52:04 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ethics

Thank you Zahir, but I'm not kidding any one. The questions I asked are for my
final. SO, if you don't feel like answering my questions and helping me then
please just don't answer them. I hate disliking people.

Alan
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:41:00 CST
Reply-To:     chowning@acuvax.acu.edu
From:         Richard Chowning <chowning@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

In Message 04 Nov 1992 08:47:04 -0700 (MST), 4FMH011@mc.maricopa.edu writes:

>Following
>every word in these books and the knowledge we got this decade may not work
>on the next decade, so next decade we build another reasoning on the bases
>of any of these religions.
>
>Alan

I think that is right.  It is not that the words are not followed, but that
each generation looks at them a little differently.  They take on meaning to
the contemporary life, its struggles and victories.  It is not confining as
some have suggested it is dynamic.

--- Chelagoi
_____________________________________________________________________
Chelagoi               alias                         Richard Chowning

chowning@acuvax.acu.edu                  Abilene Christian University
chowning@acuvax.bitnet                                 Abilene, Texas
rchowning@igc.org                               Voice: (915) 674-3754
_______________________________________________________________________
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 17:06:10 EST
From:         Mary Ellen Ugactz-Fernandez <ugactz@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Doug:

I'm not intolerant, I'm just critical... there is a difference...look
into it...

/Emmy
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:16:15 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Ethics

        1- What is ethics?

        2- What are the question that ethics asks?

        3- How can ethics relate to religion?

        4- Is it imperfect duty not to believe in GOD? Why?

        5- What is your ethical system and how it could serve
           your needs?

I would like answers from every body.

Thanks.

Alan
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:24:28 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Peter,

Yes I am smiling..... I meant rape not rap.... and as for M.C. Hammer..
he is middle of the road...

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:39:26 -0500
From:         JCWEST@INDYVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

emmy,
    who's to say there is not an afterlife...?
  maybe not the same in every instance, or each person's belief, but
a lasting existence beyond what we as 'humans' are willing to accept and
understand.  those who believe in the respective gods, will pass on to
be in their own idea of heaven, possibly.  i will go into this further
in my next transmission.      joseph...
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