HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu (Arthur Tateishi)
Subject: Re: Security devices for exams (was something else...)
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:21:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.195405.14702@muddcs.claremont.edu> bgribble@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Gribble) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.123747.16384@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ruhtra@turing.toronto.edu (Arthur Tateishi) writes:
>>Exactly. So don't allow ANY calculators/laptops/portables into the exam.
>
>The very idea of this is amusing.  How could you test any knowledge of 
>science or engineering material without some form of calculation?  

Cook the numbers a little to make hand computation feasible or make
most, if not all, of it symbolic.

>>[Stuff about my class]
>
>Rather than argue test theory, I'll give a little data about my situation:
>I'm a 3rd-year engineering student at a primarily engineering school.
>Out of roughly 75 engineers in my class, I'd say 15-20 have hp48's.  At
>least that many more have 28S's.  All our tests are open-book, open-notes, 
>and there are no restrictions on calculators or what's in their memory.  
>
>Do you think this is too easy, or that we aren't learning anything?  
No, I don't dispute that the tests can be quite challenging but do you
think the same would be true for closed-book tests?

The exam I related to everyone was a 4th yr CS course in Network
Organization cross posted as an intro grad course and taken by a
significant number of 4th yr engineers. Given that I used my hp48 for
less than 2 minutes of calculations on the 3 hour exam(the numbers were
pretty easily computed by hand, anyway), was there any need for
calculators on that exam? I think not.  I don't think it would have
been fair to others to have stuffed 288k of cross-indexed notes into my
calc prior to the exam. Now if it was open book/notes, I wouldn't
bother stuffing my calc in any case since I'd have it all quicker on
paper. Oh, and the average on the exam was quite low (too long).

The big reason I like the all or none approach is simple. My hp48 is my
only RPN calculator and I've become quite pathetic using my old Casio.
Of course, who's to say that an hp95lx filled to the gills doesn't
qualify?  How about my 386sx laptop? Too big? What about a Model 100?

As far as numbers, I would say that class had (out of 120) <10 hp48's,
some hp28s's, and at least one hp28c!.

Again, different courses will require different amounts of computing
power.  U Toronto CS has enough of a theory slant that computation is
rarely a significant portion of the test/exam.

-- 
"The first fact to face is that UNIX was not developed with security, in any
reliable sense, in mind; this fact alone guarantees a vast number of holes."
    -- "On the Security of UNIX", Dennis M. Ritchie
Arthur Tateishi                 ruhtra@turing.utoronto.ca
From: ljung@cae.wisc.edu (David Ljung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Re: Security devices for exams (was something else...)
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:57:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr16.115745.21081
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

In article <1992Apr15.201209.1@hmcvax.claremont.edu> elsalmon@hmcvax.claremont.edu writes:
	[really angry ravings about what someone else said]
>Somebody ought to show all your professors where your calculator's hardware
>reset button is.  You deserve it.

Uh, excuse me.

It seems that may of you consider it ok to have professors just
clear memory on our calculators for exams.

Well, I don't know about you, but I keep a lot of stuff on my
48 that has nothing to do with that class that I would prefer
not to lose.  Yes, I usually keep most of it backed up on my
computer, but what about those of use who don't have access to
a computer or the cables.  Also, I used to have a 28, where
the only input was via keyboard.  One of my profs decided to
take the batteries out - I would have lost a good 30 or 40
hours of work on some projects I had on there if he didn't
realize that the batteries needed to be left out for a few
minutes  :)

Anyways - it seems to me that that is not a solution.
Basically, if profs are going to allow the 48, they
should realize that there is nothing they can do to
stop students from keeping equations on there.
Arguably, it shouldn't matter, since the real
world isn't closed-book, closed-notes.  

It seems to me that the best solution is to
allow an equation sheet.  Besides, using the
48 to remember equations for you doesn't seem
to be as big an advantage to me as just plain
USING the thing.  I can't count the number of
times that having that much power on an exam
has helped me out.  Does that mean I didn't
need to understand the material?  I think not...


Enjoy,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Ljung                    314 N. Broom St. #3A
Spawning Cow! Productions      Madison, WI. 53703             ljung@cae.wisc.edu
                               (608) 257-COWS         ljung@garfield.cs.wisc.edu
-----------= This line closed due to copyright infringement laws =--------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: frechett@spot.Colorado.EDU (-=Runaway Daemon=-)
Subject: Re: Re: Security devices for exams (was something else...)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:12:18 GMT


Sheesh.. Let's all just fly off the handle now.  This is the way it looks
around here.

Most of the people who have hp48's don't know how to utilize them.  This makes
me sicker then the ones that know how to use them to their advantage on a test.
This is what I observe about the people who use the hp48sx to store equations:
They generally find out one of two things.
1.  It takes too long to enter the equations.
2.  It takes too long to find the equations.  
After they've made these relevations they may still use the calculator to
store equations but they tend to be a bit more selective about what they use
and guess what... in the process they learn the material.  God forbid.
I don't think I've had a truely closed book test yet and I've been through
Electronics, Physics, Chemistry etc.. 

If your school can't make tests that emphasize the method rather than the 
equations then you're missing out.

Regarding those who think that the hp48sx is an unfair advantage and we just
just leave it at home when we go to the test.... consider that there was a 
day when someone would have said the same about the newest slide rule, first
calculator, second calculator.. etc..  Has it EVER really made a difference?  
Of course not.  The tests get harder, the teachers get clever, life goes on.

Regarding those that think that every teacher should be able to clear the 
contents of my memory... GROW UP.  This is surely a kneejerk responce to 
insufficient planning.  I've got a hell of alot more in my calculator than
relates my latest test.  In any given time between backups, I have 5 or 10
small programs for use on homework/leisure, alarms, maybe a picture I've drawn
on the calc (habit I have when I'm bored), and any new phone numbers/addresses
and appointment.  If a teacher caught me by surprise and cleared my memory I'd
probably bitch him out in no unclear or quiet words.  

Go ahead and bitch and moan about the ethics of it all, but this isn't
comp.sys.hp48.ethics and around here most people I know are trying to get the
most out of their machine and realize that you cannot cheat on a well written
test.

	ian

-=Runaway Daemon=-

(Be aware that I've had 3 tests in 2 days, and I'm not always like this)
From: willegen@research.ptt.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: LOCAL variable in menu??? !!!!!
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:48:07 GMT

In article <32310002@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com>, wally@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Wally Overton) writes:
> After using the Time Value of Money program from FINance library in the HP
> Equation Library Card, I went about purging the variables it had left in the
> menu.  Much to my surprise, the "N" would not purge, returning instead
> "PURGE Error: Bad Argument Type".  Looking at the TYPE of the variable, it
> shows up as type 7, a LOCAL variable.  Using the VARS/ORDER functions to move
> it away from the left most menu key also results in a similar error return when
> executing ORDER.  To make matters worse, though I usually go to a directory I
> reserve for Equation Library Card use, this time I was in a hurry and ran with
> the HOME directory active.  I am now left with an "N" in the HOME directory,
> and no ability to even rearrange that directory.
> 
> HELP!
> 
> 
> 
> 	Wally Overton, Hewlett-Packard, Disk Memory Division
> 	wally@hpdml45.hp.com
> 	CompuServe: 70425,1105
> 	(208) 323-2819

Have you tried to STOre anything in N and then PURGE it?
Might work, don't know. I've never had any locals in my dirs. How this helps.

Christ van Willegen
C.P.vanWillegen@research.ptt.nl
From: vuilleum@uni2a.unige.ch
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: HP 95 LX
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:18:42 GMT
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland


        I need some informations about the new HP 95 LX...
 
-       Do somebody know if the Ramcards are the same as those for the
HP 48 ? Do you know were it could be possible to purchase them for cheaper
than at HP ?
 
-       Do you know if it exists "do-it-yourself" RAM/PROM cards ?
 
-       Is there an infra-red eighty-columns printer ?
 
THank you everybody...
 
                Marc Vuilleumier
                vuilleum@divsun.unige.ch
From: fin@unet.umn.edu (Craig A. Finseth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: idea to "improve" the 48
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:29:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Apr8.182906.24474
Organization: University of Minnesota, Networking Services.

In article <58@ast.stgt.sub.org>, steffl@ast.stgt.sub.org (Stephan Block) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr3.221347.2285@news2.cis.umn.edu> fin@unet.umn.edu (Craig A. Finseth) writes:
|> >In past HP calculators which did not have STD mode, I would have seen
|> >an answer like (FIX 4):
|> >	2.0000
|> >What I want is the same rounding of answers yet with the benefits of
|> >STD mode (e.g., no trailing zeros, automatic scaling, etc.)
|> >Essentially, I want an "n STD" mode with the default being "12 STD"
|> >(identical to the current STD).

|> This is already built in. Just try "n RND" (MTH PARTS NXT NXT NXT)
|> and tell us if that is what you wanted :-)

Nope, not at all.  The idea is to round the displayed value but leave
the value on the stack untouched.  As I say, like FIX n works.

Craig A. Finseth			fin@unet.umn.edu
1343 Lafond				Craig.Finseth@nic.mr.net
St Paul MN 55104-2437			+1 612 644 4027
USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: bson@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson)
Subject: Re: Elek-Tek phone# needed
Organization: nil
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:17:41 GMT

In article <4118@sumax.seattleu.edu> jorgand@sumax.seattleu.edu (Dave Jorgan) writes:

 > Thanks for all the people who gave me advice on whether to get the
 > HP48S or 48SX. I decided to get the SX, provided I can get it for the
 > prices people have said it is available for (around $250) instead of
 > the I have seen locally.

   A place in Computer Shopper lists the 48SX for $239. I can look up
the name and phone # if you're interested.

   I think getting the 48SX is a smart thing to do. Who knows, in 1996
you will have forgotten the $250 you paid for it, and maybe want that
128k RAM card just lowered to $49.95.



--
						-- Jan Brittenson
						   bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu
From: clarkr@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Clark M Roberts)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Battery life of hp48
Keywords: how long can you use it after ((*))
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:57:26 GMT
Distribution: usa


	I just bought an 48SX and I am wondering how long the batterys
will last compared to my 28C. I noticed that in the manual they dont give
an estimated run time after the low battery warning is displayed. 
which HP. did for the 28C. This makes me feel uneasy should I always
carry a spare set of batterys or will it run for 30+ hours like the
28 ? Enquiring minds want to Know.

	Thanks in advance Clark Roberts.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: oracle@iastate.edu (Jason Brunken)
Subject: HP Supporting BBS
Keywords: HP
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:20:45 GMT

A while back I think I saw a message about someone looking for a BBS that
supports the HP lines.

I have a system up that has a small HP area if anyone is interested...

It can be reached by telneting to '129.186.99.31', after the connection is
made at the DIAL: prompt type me\16125, then follow the prompts.

It's a new system, so there's not much on it yet...

Thanks.
From: c_s02098@stat.appstate.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Need help with TAR
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:53:03 GMT
Organization: Appalachian State University

I have ftp'ed some stuff from seq.uncwil.edu and have uncompressed them but am
having trouble getting tar to work.  It keeps saying something about tar.out,
but never extracts the files. I am using the tar program posted about a year
ago along with ASC2BIN, UNCOMPRESS, UUDECODE, and UUENCODE (MS-DOS versions of
all of the above).  I am typing tar -x database.tar to try to extract the file
database.tar.  Anybody have any suggestions?

William Safley
c_s02098@conrad.appstate.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.hp48:2693 comp.sys.handhelds:1297 comp.sys.palmtops:1567
From: Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48,comp.sys.handhelds,comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Philly HP Conference Videotape & Proceedings available
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 21:49:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

    The videotape from the 1992 Spring HP Handheld Conference at Drexel
University in Philadelphia on 3/27-29 has finally been edited. There is a
total of 13 hours of interesting material from our speakers, including three
sessions with Hewlett-Packard's Dennis York.  In addition, our printed 
material is also available. Here's the rundown:

   (1) Printed conference proceedings (110 pages) ......  $10.00

   (2) Printed HP48 System RPL Tools Documentation
       (from Educalc Goodies Disk #4) (88 pages) .......  $10.00
   (3) Both printed documents are available for ........  $15.00
   
   (4) HP Conf Videotapes (13 hours on two 
       BASF Super High Grade VHS tapes) ................  $20.00
   

Please add $5.00 for postage for any of the above stuff. Thanks.
 Jake Schwartz
 135 Saxby Terrace
 Cherry Hill, NJ 08003

 609-866-6334 work
 609-751-1310 home
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Worn Displays
From: Steve_Grant@kcbbs.gen.nz (Steve Grant)
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:05:48 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

My Calc has the worn display syndrome, now does anybody know how much 
HP charge to fix this problem? By the way mine was made in the USA and 
has the zip case. Is their a velcro case and is their a case that has 
a hard outer shell and a soft padded inner? Also in New Zealand we don't 
have access to FTP site so could somebody post whats on the HP ftp site 
that relates to the 48SX. Thanks very much -

Steve
___________________________________________________________________________
This intense heat they project in a parallel beam against any object 
they choose by means of a polished parabolic mirror of unknown composition.- 
H.G.Wells, War of the Worlds. - Steve_Grant@kcbbs.gen.nz
____________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Subject: Re: Wish list, serial ports, and a wacky idea.
Reply-To: allbery@ncoast.org (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 03:43:20 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.hp48

As quoted from <1992Apr10.091846.65628@research.ptt.nl> by willegen@research.ptt.nl:
+---------------
| Well. RS232 works at TWO levels. +3 to 15 and -3 to 15 V. HP needs to double
| te voltage to get a voltage of AT LEAST 6 volts. They use the 9 V from
| the display a '+' voltage, the 4.5 battery level for 'log ground' and
| the 0 from the batt as '-' level. There is a capacitor between the calc's
| logical and earth ground (which is the chassis) because a lot of computers
| just shortcircuit logical and eart ground, and in the HP48's case this would
| mean shorting the batts through the serial port.
+---------------

I guess I didn't explain what I was thinking of clearly enough.  I said "+/-
3 to 15 volts", meaning that there were + and - voltages relative to some
signal ground reference.  And I completely neglected to mention my (incorrect)
assumption that signal ground was the same as calculator ground and a charge
pump or other technique was being used to convert +4.5 VDC to -4.5 VDC.  (This
is the technique used in several TTL-to-RS232 converters I've built.  Those
also operated at 9v, but in this case it was +9, -9, and signal ground was 0v.
I had assumed that the calculator was doing the same, which seemed rather
wasteful.)

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery, KF8NH [44.70.4.88]        allbery@NCoast.ORG
Senior Programmer, Telotech, Inc. (if I may call myself that...)
From: brk4690@venus.tamu.edu (READ KING (409) 696-1591)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Code programs --- Questions from a newbie
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:30:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I have a program called BRIX (a breakout replica) and it is run by a program 
called CHIP.225.  I was wondering if someone could tell me how these types of 
programs are written.  Mail your replies to king@it.tamu.edu.  There's no use 
busying up the board with it.  Thanx!

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: About multi-bank cards
Originator: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
	<29cf1a33.878.1comp.sys.hp48.1@hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com>
	<1992Apr6.102937.65605@research.ptt.nl>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:49:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.102937.65605@research.ptt.nl> willegen@research.ptt.nl writes:

>[the 256 and 512K cards] consist of 2 and 4 *seperate* 128 k cards.
>Bank-switch software is on the card. *BEWARE*. Crashes are made easy
>for you....

>Example:

>You run a program from 'card' 1, that gives you the error:
>Very Wrong Error: Totally Wrong Input

>You switch to 'card' 2 to play a game. You're finished playing (about +/-
>5 hours later?) and want to retrieve the error. You type ERRM and the calc
>displays:

>Insert RAM, press ON.

Just wondering:  could it be possible to catch this error and switch
banks automatically?  With a weird machine-language library, of course ...
aren't there hooks for catching errors, or is this one hard-coded?
Has anybody tried this?

While at it, has anybody built a library that automatically switches
banks as needed: only heads of functions visible always, along with
code that checks which bank the rest is in and switches it on as needed?
--
Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Wish list, serial ports, and a wacky idea.
Date: 6 Apr 92 07:40:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr6.024034.24978
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

In article <1992Apr6.060249.28864@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> rkbg2554@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Robert K. Brunner) writes:
>mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes:
>
>About point 2:
>Even though you didn't want a response, I thought I would throw this
>in.  Mouse interfaces demand an interrupt-driven serial port running
>at 9600 bps for good response.  I think this wouldslow down the
>calculator considerably.  It would also be difficult to use the
>calculator as a handheld. (Maybe a trackball would work though :-)).

Nah, just get a smart mouse.  Most mice these days have microcontrollers
in them anyway -- you might as well have it track it's own position and be
able to query it.
From: oklein@smallo.bo.open.de (Olaf Klein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Ramcards for HP48SX wanted
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:51:55 GMT
Organization: Tief im Westen... [H.G.]

Hello,

I'm searching for cheap (though good) ramcards for the HP48SX,
128KB min. Can you recommend any cards or firms ?

Bye, Olaf

-- 
Olaf Klein | oklein@smallo.bo.open.de | Fido-SubNet-Gate: 2:245/5800.12
From: brk4690@summa.tamu.edu (READ KING (409) 696-1591)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Matrix column addition (need fastest possible way)
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:41:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I have a question about matrices.  I would like to quickly add two columns
in a matrix and put the result back to one of the original columns.  Right now, 
I am taking out each number, adding them together, PUTting them back into the 
right place, then moving on to the next row.  Is there a faster way?  Maybe by 
using the transpose and doing row additions in the SIGDAT?  

Please either post here or mail me at king@it.tamu.edu.  Thanks in advance.

Read King
From: willegen@research.ptt.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: How about an APL inside the HP48sx ?!!
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:32:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.201449.1576@brandonu.ca>, $liukl@brandonu.ca writes:
> Have you heard about APL?
> It's a powerful language for doing arrays.  The syntax is very simple, I think
> it won't be hard to code an APL intepreter into the HP48sx!!! Have anybody
> thought about it ?  An APL on HP48sx will be very useful and many scientists and
> mathematican will like the HP48sx even more if it has APL !!!
> How about LISP in HP48sx ?
> Or even Prolog in HP48sx ? My favourist computer programming language...
> I've coded a Turing machine in HP48sx for fun.
> Let's see how powerful the HP48sx can be.!

Some time ago, Crwth (his 'writers' name, I can't currently recall his 'real'
:) name) made a 'Lisp' compiler for the HP28. It isn't the whole Lisp ofcourse,
but reasonable results are possible. Too bad that I don't know that much
Lisp...

Isn't APL a little hard to write, considering all the *weird* symbols it
consists of? I guess a System-RPL program would be needed to type the progs.
A 'simple' User-RPL program can interpret/compile the resulting APL string.

The advantages of System-RPL over User-RPL are enormous here:
-  Fully, no trouble reconfigurable keyboard
-  Use your own display routine
-  Very much improved graphics support.

A mapping from the 'symbols' onto something different (normal chars) should
be done ofcourse, but APL might be possible.

Christ
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48