HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: Apologies to doorstop users
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 10:12:35 GMT

In article <HUCKA.93Jan8012734@squint.engin.umich.edu> hucka@engin.umich.edu writes:
>I'm a fairly new netrek player and I would like to apologize to the more
>experienced players that were on doorstop about a half-hour ago (EST).  I
>played using a public server address given to me by a friend, not realizing
>the address was that of doorstop.design.iastate.edu.
>
>Upon logging in on doorstop, I followed the instructions about sending myself
>the clue message, but it wasn't until just now when catching up on news
>postings in rec.games.netrek that I realized out the *real* purpose of that.
>
>I'm sure it's annoying for experienced players to have clueless people play
>in like I did.  An egg on my face.
>
>I'm still learning about "clue"ness :-(.
>  
>"Huck".
>--
>-- Mike
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>Mike Hucka                     | Internet: hucka@engin.umich.edu    
>University of Michigan AI Lab  | 1101 Beal Ave., Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2110

No apology necessary. The "feature" in question is there to make sure
that people are reading messages: as far as I know, that was the only
reason for it. Personally, as long as beginners are willing to read,
listen to what reasonable teammates have to say, and try their best,
I'm glad to play with them, and I wouldn't trade such a player for
half the players in the world (namely, the half that never bothers
to care about the rest of the team).

On a similar note, I've been getting annoyed recently at a rash of
insults I've seen aimed at new players on servers...come on, they
have to learn sometime and somewhere. Just this evening, I explained
to a new starbase how to turn on docking. It took maybe 30 seconds,
and he'll probably remember it forever. Most new players I've seen
are more than willing to learn, if you give them a chance.

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
From: hadley@vlsi.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: FYI: Flaky cerfnet router affecting SC in/out connections
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:00:50 GMT

   sdsc-cit.cerf.net has been dropping something like 10-15% of packets
   through it in the last few weeks, and is probably responsible for the
   increased lag (packet loss, random freezes, etc) to and from uci, caltech,
   ucla, and to some extent usc (although they have their own network
   problems).  Cerfnet operations is working on it, I'm told.

   On the bright side, it looks like some parts of the internet have
   improved over the holidays.  My ping times (southern california ping times
   I would venture to say) to midwest servers have dropped by 10-20ms and ping
   times to berkeley have dropped by 30ms.

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: misconceptions
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:35:30 GMT
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group

In article <1ir1icINN200@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser) writes:
>In article <1993Jan10.230814.28042@ncsu.edu> jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu writes:
>>>4) Dying with armies is worse than not picking them up.  FALSE
>>This one should be tattooed on the back of the neck of anyone in a LPS or
>>core-planet situation.  If a planet being attacked has armies, PICK THEM UP.
>
>If your team can't stop someone from bombing your only planet, then
>they also can't stop someone from dropping armies on it.

Not necessarily true. Remember that a good team has 8 bombers at all
times, while no team has 8 carriers at any time. It's a lot harder to
stop *anyone* from bombing your planet than it is to stop one or
two particular people from beaming down armies.

> And if you
>grab those armies, then you're essentially taking yourself out of the
>game since you'll be so nervous about keeping those armies alive that
>you won't likely participate much in defending that last planet.

Quite true. The person carrying almost certainly can't defend the
planet, and can even be a liability if you can't tell whether incoming
cloakers are going for your carrier or the planet. If you try this plan,
it's usually better for the carrier to hide well behind the planet.

>I'm more comfy when folks just leave the popped armies on the home planet
>until there are enough to actually do something useful, though I've
>seen the other approach work just fine.  But please, let's not start
>teaching newbies to grab LPS armies and try to live with 'em.
>
The best strategy depends on how good the defenders are, and how
organized the attackers are. I generally consult with my teammates
to decide what we should do. Obviously, only people reading messages
get a vote :-)

>--Brick

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Changing the alignment of an altar???
Date: 9 Jan 1993 16:35:34 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <ewing-040193164024@usrv13L> ewing@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Rick Ewing) writes:
>I've heard that it is possible not only to change your character's
>alignment during a game, but it is also possible to change an altar's
>alignment (not without consequences, I suspect).  is it indeed possible,
>and if so, an clues on how to accomplish this?

Yes.  You ogg the altar.  Be sure to use a ship of different alignment than
the altar, though.  If you're in chaos mode, you may ogg a same-alignment
altar if you make sure to declare war with your own team, and you may also
change your own alignment in this case if you chung yourself.

5150
quite welcome
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: siegl@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Kurt Siegl)
Subject: Re: Multiple players from same machine, outlawed on Bronco?
Organization: RISC, J.K. University of Linz, Austria
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:30:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.191047.21390@wuecl.wustl.edu>, qarl@wuecl.wustl.edu (Karl Stiefvater) writes:
> >>Bronco does not appear to allow more than one player from a single machine.
> >>I assume this policy is meant to discourage tmode scumming... BUT...
> 
> A reasonable compromise might be: raise the number of players per machine
> from 1 to 3.  This would still discourage tmode scums (they'd need three
> machines.) but allow us to play.  Even 2 players/machine is a big
> improvement.

We have only one large machine where a client is installed (20 proc Sequent) and all
X-terms are connected to it.

So any restriction on machines will limit the number of players from our site.

A save solution would be only a restriction on the DISPLAY.

A limitation of guest logins from a site could be also used to prevent easy tmode scums.

But anyway if one really wants to scum tmode he always finds a way. So don't
bother the whole world off fair players, only because of some black sheeps.

Just reseting their stats as soon they are catched would be enough. The metaserver
command is a good way for finding them.

Kurt (007)
From: gosselin@ll.mit.edu (Dave Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Apologies to doorstop users
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:45:51 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1993Jan8.101235.24047@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
>
>On a similar note, I've been getting annoyed recently at a rash of
>insults I've seen aimed at new players on servers...come on, they
>have to learn sometime and somewhere. Just this evening, I explained
>to a new starbase how to turn on docking. It took maybe 30 seconds,
>and he'll probably remember it forever. Most new players I've seen
>are more than willing to learn, if you give them a chance.
>
>-Grey Elf
>markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu

I've noticed this too. I thought it was just me. As someone who name
scums I tend to play low ranked characters a great deal and in the
past week or two I've gotten some downright nasty comments (mostly
because I was just ogging).

dave
aka: Tom Servo, Crow T. Robot, BermudaTriangle, soma, Drake Tungsten,Hanz
gosselin@ll.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: UDP question (was Re: Netrek 358: Starbase Theory & Concept)
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:47:50 GMT

In article <2B50B0CF.6713@ics.uci.edu> hadley@codes.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley) writes:
>   Observation only distantly related to this thread:
>
>   Sending with enforced UDP (state & weap) often causes extraneous
>   phaser firing while in a base because the phaser interval is so
>   short.  In a serious ogg you probably want all the weapon temp you
>   can spare, so switching to enforced UDP (state) or simple
>   UDP may be helpful.

An even more distantly related question :

What is the difference between simple UDP and enforced UDP?

	Thanks,
	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: jh@heel.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jack Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL plague code (was: Re: INL pop code)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 00:21:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: heel.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <YfI_1Fe00WD5M2kXgy@andrew.cmu.edu> jb7m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon C. R. Bennett) writes:
>
>echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>> So take those 30min away, and have 90min INL games.  2hrs is grueling, and
>> 1hr games aren't long enough to really make a point to who the better team is
>> IMO.
>
>how about 2 back to back 1 hour games, where in the second game you switch
>races, but get exactly the same resource setup, thus decresing the impact
>of a good/bad set up
>
>jon

This will be bad, because you are taking away the advantage the away
team gets in choosing team first.

If you switch servers too, then there this problem of preserving the
same resource setup.

I am also of the opinion that 2 hour games are too long, and I tend to lose
my concentration after the first hour. This is a list of suggestions from
the net:
	1) 10 minutes break after the first hour
	2) substitute often
	3) shorten competition time to 60 or 90 minutes
	4) keep it as it is

Each of the suggestions have their pros and cons, but I'm more in favor
of option (2). This is because:
	-even though it's long, I enjoyed every second of it.
	-you do need that long to find the better team.

What are your opinions?

-Jack
 Gaia
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: chris@inconel.uucp (Christian)
Subject: sockets and netrek
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:05:55 CST

Here's a query for those who are intimate with the loving heart of netrek:

Has anyone noticed the daemon grabing socktes and then not releasing them??
I notice that when I do a pstat -f on my sparc 2, every day I get an
inceasing # of sockets piling up. 

I'm not sure netrek is the problem (might some totaly unrelated thing by some
badly written software I'm running (not written by me, mind you!)), but I
wanted to know if this has ever been reported before.

Thanx

-Chris

(SunOS 4.1.1, Sparc2, running the RSA version of the bronco.final server.)
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New INL season
Date: 13 Jan 1993 04:42:26 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


In article <93Jan12.104719est.9087@rock.db.toronto.edu> g2chen@cdf.toronto.edu writes:
)Well, after some consideration. I decided to go freelance style. Due
)to my busy schedule, I can't really join a INL team. So, I would like
)to announce myself as a free-agent sub. :) Price to be negotiated,
)usually a donut or two would do the trick. I ain't MUCUS PIG or Barry
)Bonds. :) :) :)

I would like to note that 'freelancing' is discouraged.  If you're
not listed on the roster, the other team doesn't have to let you play,
and I really don't want to see Red Shirt, MUCUS and Duck showing up
to play for Deep Hurting (or whoever).  

I know that I'm not going to let any freelancers play against my team.
 -Mojo
From: gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg K Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INL Server Q:
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:46:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8fIcJdK00WB70gCpIM
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


We need blessed binaries to play on normal servers.  These binaries
come from an elite few who compile them for everyone else.

So what is the reasoning for not compiling the INL server for all
architectures?  Surely it would help ensure a more level playing field
(or maybe not).
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Netrek 358: Starbase Theory & Concept
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:15:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

What I hate most is to see a base with no armies constantly asking for help.
What's worse is that our team (in pickup games) usually tends to give this
help.  Naturally, we lose planets at a surprising rate.

Bases are good for 3 occasions:
A) LPS (your own): it's primarly good for holding armies so they don't get
	bombed.  However, the enemy has a good chance to take the planet
	under an ogg wave.
B) Beginning of game: the base can hold 25 and usually guard another 30-50
	more.
C) Any time during the game that your side gets an unusually large pop.
	This happenned to TWNN against AM.  AM was bombing the hell out
	of us and really slowing our planet taking.  We had an amazing
	pop, and I grabbed a base while Red Shirt started ferrying
	armies.  We quickly stockpiled about 20 armies in under 5 minutes.

By the way, I've yet to see a strategy of taking out a base to defeat a
LPS actually work.  I'm sure it happens, but I would guess against only the
most clueless of teams.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: gdearing@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Gregory D Dearing)
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:10:55 GMT

In article <63202@mimsy.umd.edu> sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith) writes:
>
>Additionally, I'd like to know everyone's opinions on:
>	Do scattered pops make netrek more, or less, strategically rich?
>	*Why* is a 10-second or 1-second or 100-millisecond granularity
>better than a 40-second granularity?

This reminds me of the lock-on to cloakers "feature".  While the effect
may not be what the author intended, it's become an interesting part of
the game.  I don't think a more frequent pop rate would change the game
much, but IMO it would take some of the strategy and fun (what little
there is) out of scout bombing.

>- Gamera

Porkchop
Flt Captain Longshot (whose password I can't quite remember =)
-- 
Greg Dearing
Email: Dearing.2@osu.edu
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Cluechecking on servers - get the twinks!
Date: 9 Jan 93 12:55:09 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1993Jan8.072557.13702@cs.nott.ac.uk>, nlc@trellis.cs.nott.ac.uk (Neil L Cook) writes:
> |> [STNG SCHEME deleted]
>
	First off, how do you get the impression that I was trying to convert
to STNG?  Just because I was using one race out of it, does not mean I want to
convert the whole damn game (the bitmaps were just an excuse, if you would look
at them, you would see that they are even further away from real ships, than
they are right now--I just hate how some of them look).

> This is marvellous, I demand the INL council put it into INL 4.0
> immediately. In fact, I think all servers and clients should be
> changed to accurately reflect all the changes to the Startrek universe
> in the Next Generation. We could have Q popping up instead of iggy,
> Borgs etc. And every so often, a message from Deanna Troy stating the
> bleeding obvious, e.g. say you kill someone, Troy->ALL I sense death., or
> Troy->ALL I feel Joy, great Joy.
> 
> If this is not put into netrek, I will resign from the INL council.
> 
> Neil.
> 
> Repeat after me: Netrek is not Star Trek. Star Trek the Next
> Generation is not Star Trek. Hence STNG fans are clueless newbies, and
> i never did like the first series what was so good about startrek its
> just a show for sad losers who dress up in silly costumes unlike us
> netrek players who just spend all night playing a game when we could
> be getting a life and drinking more beer and why did they get rid of
> tasha yar she was the best actress by far no i didnt just enjoy her
> for her body no not deanna troy either honest and what is patrick
> stewart doing for gods sake hes a shakespearean actor and hes wasted
> in such an undemanding role and why did they get rid of tasha yar?

     "...? ...No comment, my staff is currently working on the problem."


		-Lynx

Yes, we overreact to all occurances...everything must be picked over with a
fine toothed comb by the INL satirical council members...WHATAREYOULOOKINGAT!
From: jh@bigdog.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jack Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Holy players, batman!
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:31:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigdog.cs.berkeley.edu

It would be really nice if there can be a message bulletin on the metaserver
that describes any special event. 1 or 2 lines will be enough, like today's
clue game's port #, machine name, and time.

Andy?

-Jack
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Netrek 358: Starbase Theory & Concept
Date: 10 Jan 93 15:12:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: IASTATE.1993Jan10.091241
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University




  The more I play netrek, the more come to believe
that the starbase's usefulness is vastly overrated.
In my estimate, the only effective use of a base in
a clue (or INL) game is to protect armies in the core
or defend in an LPS. They are usually a big waste of
time in trying to maintain any sort of space control
on the front lines. Bases (even Baltons & Wrecks) don't
stand more than a couple front line oggs (from clue)
before having to fall back. This, in turn, usually
ties up a good number of ships trying to defend it. I
really think bases only use is to sit back, defend
the rear, and organize the team via the message window.
They are a drain on the team usually if they try to
accomplish anything more than that. Of course in the
typical pickup game where half the team is playing
with an "every man for himself" mentality, bases can
function much for effectively. But in "real" games, the
usefulness of a starbase is usually minimal at best, in
my estimate. I know even in pick up games when I'm
playing with Balton or Wreck, I always find myself
wishing they were in a ship....
  Ummm, what does everyone else think? Am I way off
on this one?


					Exodus
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jrichard@cs.cs (John 'MacGyver' Richardson)
Subject: Re: ntserv
Organization: /usr/ug/1993/jrichard/.organization
	<1i8jb7INNp7q@tamsun.tamu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 07:37:15 GMT

In article <1i8jb7INNp7q@tamsun.tamu.edu> jeffw@cs.tamu.edu (Jeffrey A Waller) writes:

   |> 	  Updates taken care of by the daemon now get taken care of by
   |> 	  a signal handler.

   A warning here.  Try to minimize the stuff you do during an interrupt;  many
   library calls are not reentrant (like malloc--using SunOS anyway).  However,
   this is not a problem as you don't really need to use async IO (see below).

Yeah, I noticed.  I actually should have said the used-to-be-daemon is
controlled by a variable updated by a signal handler.

   |> 	o reading and writing becomes a disaster!  If you use TCP you have
   |> 	  to deal with partial reads and writes of packets because you have
   |> 	  to use nonblocking I/O.


   This is not true.  select() and poll() are system calls that allow a process
   to do syncronous IO among a set of file descriptors under either BSD or SYSV
   respectively.   Both calls block until a read (among other things) is 
   possible on any of the of file descriptors, macros are supplied to figure
   out which one(s) have data ready.   

And select() is used very well in the current version of netrek.  But think
of the following problem: select tells you there is input coming in for a 
socket.  So you try to read() it, but you don't get the whole packet (could 
happen in TCP  esp. w/ nonblocking I/O).  You have to save the state of
the packet (how many bytes were read etc...) and head on to the next socket
indicated by select().  Check out "Unix Network Programming" p. 279 for 
more info.

   I just got back from vacation, so I have missed the discussion (if any)
   on the problem I suggested that arises using an all UDP implementation.

I didn't notice any, but I hit the 'k' key a lot here... :)  Fill me in too!
Hmmm, did you mean re-connecting a borg to a socket?  I saw that but didn't
think it would be a problem with this impementation.

It's really not a problem, I've got UDP stuff kinda-sorta working, it just
needs time (and non-glamourous testing - any volunteers -- I'll start a list?)

John Richardson
jrichard@cs.ulowell.edu
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Cluechecking on servers - get the twinks!
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:31:41 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1iifnqINNari@agate.berkeley.edu>, sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
> In article <1993Jan7.155555.62539@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
> )  [ "CLEVER" SCHEME DELETED ]
> )
> )		Comments?
> 
> You're an asshole.  I presume you were born full-clued from you
> mother's womb?

	Just as you were born with bloated sense of self importance.

>  How do you expect people to learn how to play the
> game?
> -- 

	By using a different server, in the motd it says to learn somewhere
else, instructions are not even included on how to play because of this.

	Furthermore, another thing I did not mention, is that you can leave the
ship, you simply have to send several demeaning messages to ALL, and you will
be returned to your team (you are given instructions on what to send).

	As for people doing that, just so they can get the ship...so what? 
Makes for more fun.  If that is what you want to do, bomb out of t, it will ask
you to verify, if you verify, it will ask you if you REEEEaly want to become a
(whatever the name is).  If you say yes, then you become one, and you must
demean yourself to get back into normal play.  We are considering putting a
limit on how many there are cruising around the galaxy.

		-Lynx
From: dtabb@ecst.csuchico.edu (Don Tabb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: clue game?
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:42:06 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: guzzler.ecst.csuchico.edu



Is there enough clue around for a game?
do any teams need a practice game?

I want to play in good games.

talk to me if you agree.

don
dtabb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
Scorn!
From: hadley@codes.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: Netrek 358: Starbase Theory & Concept
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:27:11 GMT

   Observation only distantly related to this thread:

   Sending with enforced UDP (state & weap) often causes extraneous
   phaser firing while in a base because the phaser interval is so
   short.  In a serious ogg you probably want all the weapon temp you
   can spare, so switching to enforced UDP (state) or simple
   UDP may be helpful.

   We now return you to your regular thread, also titled:
   "The Starbase.  Obselete against today's technology?"
   (to which I respond a resounding MAYBE)

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: RSA hadley client
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:00:07 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

I have an RSA hadley client for the sun4 + key if someone will put it on an ftp site
and people will use the key!

If anyone wants the source mail me and I will give it you so it can me compiled on
other systems.

			James.