HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mustafa@seas.smu.edu (Mustafa Kocaturk)
Subject: Re: Turkish Culture
Summary: Dede Korkut in English
Organization: SMU - School of Engineering & Applied Science - Dallas
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 20:44:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.165853.10444@nynexst.com> erkin@nynexst.com (Erkin Cubukcu) writes about important issues of Turkish culture, and asks:

>I do not even remember seeing a book  about  Dede  Korkut  selling  in  the
>bookstores in Turkiye. I am sure it is published somewhere in Turkiye,  but 
>is not  very popular so you do not see it in the bookstores.  I do not dare
>to imagine seeing translations of Dede Korkut or similar literature selling 
>in New York, Paris or London. I keep wondering if it is  too  difficult  or
>not  worth  the  effort  to  translate  them to other  languages by Turkish
>literati born and/or living in these places.  Or other  possibility  we  do
>not have capable people to the job.   

I once bought an English Penguin book about Dede Korkut from Sander
Yayinevi in Turkey.  It had been written by a native speaker of English.
I believe we have many literature majors out there who are candidates
for such work.  I guess we also have quite a lot of work done in Turkey
about our history and culture.  One name that immediately comes to my
mind is the sociologist Ziya Gokalp.  I recommend that you contact the
nearest cultural representative of the Turkish government for
literature, research and material.  They surely must not leave you
helpless. I do not believe that we lack people capable of doing the job.

>As I  think  about  I get mor frustrated.  Not only do we care our past but
>also today's culture.  I remember in "Ilkokul" we use to have a very  small
>pocket size dictionary.  Many decades past since then I have yet to see one 
>big  dictionary  including  all the words we use new or old, similar to the
>American Webster's Dictionary. Is it embarasing that there is not even  one
>descent dictionary we can give to the students coming from Turkic Republics 
>of Central asia?   

I could not agree more.  We have not been able to accomplish much in this
regard because of continuous political struggle in our education affairs.
Other independent work, however, remains to be explored and utilized.
If only we could appreciate consistency in education and establish a
long-term education policy not to be altered every four years !

>Erkin Cubukcu                          Ph#:     (914) 644-2876
>NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.       Fax#:    (914) 644-2237
>500 Westchester Ave. Rm# 2G-16B        e-mail:  erkin@nynexst.com
>White Plains, NY 10604

Best regards,

Mustafa Kocaturk
-- 
Mustafa Kocaturk   mustafa@seas.smu.edu  EE Dept., Room 305A, Caruth Bldg.
Home: 214-706-5954  Office: 214-768-1475  SMU Box 753190, Dallas, TX 75275
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: Sampson and Greek Cypriot arms acquisitions
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:34:27 GMT

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:

>In article <BzHBqq.7un@news.cso.uiuc.edu> varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) writes:

>>Sampson was tried and convicted to 20 years in prison for his part on the
>>July 15 coup.  If he committed any other crimes let him be tried for those
>>too, along with everybody else, Greek or Turk.  What I want to know is
>>how many people were tried and convicted by the so called TRNC for crimes
>>against Greek Cypriots.  I don't understand the fuss about Sampson's release.

>You don't get it - do you? Article IV of the 1960 Tripartite Treaty of 
>Guarantee among Great Britain, Turkiye, and Greece gave Turkiye the 
>right to intervene if the 1960 agreement was violated. When Greece 
>invaded the island on July 15, 1974, and then tried to annex it, the 
>Turkish government acted to establish an area in northern Cyprus where 
>Turkish Cypriots could live free of fear.

>Serdar Argic

I posted in response to the above pack of lies (it also qualifies for
irrevelevant response to my original post) before.  If you didn't get
it it's not my problem Mutlu/Argic.  You don't have to take my word for
the illegality of the Turkish invasion.  Read the U.N. resolutions.
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
From: RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: AS-SAMI' (God in Islam-12)
Date: 25 Dec 1992 19:32:34 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

#######################################################################
 AS-SAMI'

         He is the one who hears all--that which comes from the lips,
         passes through the minds, is felt by the hearts; the rustling of
         leaves in the wind, the footsteps of the ants and the atoms'
         moving through the void. There is no screen that prevents
         the sound from reaching Him, nor is one sound heard less
         than the other when an almost infinite number of voices is
         speaking.
         As-Saml', the All-Hearing, is an attribute of perfection,
         because its opposite, being deaf, is an imperfection. There
         are two levels of perfection. One is absolute perfection, the
         other is relative perfection. Absolute perfection does not
         depend on means, conditions, or limitations. Relative per-
         fection depends on means and conditions and is limited.
         In the universe, from the beginning until the end, from one
         end to the other, without interruption, an almost endless
         number of sounds and voices exist. Some are as loud as the
         greatest explosion; some are minimalj almost imperceptible.
         All are heard by the All-Hearing--one by one at the same
         time, one as clear as the other. This hearing is not in vain, for
         all is registered: the meaning understood, the need satisfied,
         the answer given, the call responded to, the wrong corrected.
         Of this infinite ability to hear, if an atom is given to man, it
         is in order that it guide man towards this absolute perfection.
         It is in order that he know His perfect attributes, which He
         has given in traces, in signs in and around us. It is so that we
         may know Him and hnd Him and love Him and be with Him.
         But when the ones who have the best ears and the most
         sensitive machinery listen--if they ever begin to compare
         their hearing to Allah the Hearer of All, they will be liars.
         Worse still, they will be guilty of shirk, attributing equals to
         Allah.
         There is none like Him in any of His attributes and mani-
         festations. The traces and signs of His attributes in man and
         upon the universe are at best a reflection, a symbol, a word, a
         means, a path to understand and reach truth.

         'Abd as~Sami' and 'Abd al~Basir are the ones who hear and
         see the Truth with the eyes and ears of Allah, as Allah says in
         a divine Hadith: "My servant comes close to me with his
         continuous devotion until I love him and when I love him I
         become his ears with which he hears and his eyes with which
         he sees and his tongue with which he speaks and his hand
         with which he holds."

Fwd by Remzi Cirit

########################################################################
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "George William Herbert" is confused (what else is new, anyway?)
Date: 3 Jan 93 01:56:18 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <9301021611@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
 > In article <1hu34hINN30k@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:
 > 
 > >Mutlu is one of the early aliases apparently used, and due to
 > >the lateness of the hour when I posted this and lack
 > >of recent review of my mail records (fun NOT) I got confused
 > >for a second.
 > 
 > I really disagree with you. But maybe you know better.
 > 
An admission.  George Herbert was not confused, so Cosar == Mutlu == Argic!
Or perhaps Serdar can explain why George was not confused when he used the
name Mutlu when he intended to use Cosar/Argic?
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Subject: Re: Unity in Thought, language or DOMINATION
Keywords: gu"l ve diken
Reply-To: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 11:32:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.121557.3813@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.105456.18318@news.columbia.edu>,
>ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) writes:
>> In article <01GSRJIHFKF6006MJF@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>
>RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT) writes:
>>
>>#######################################################################
>#
>
>	[ ... ] 
>	Pek ilgilendirmedi, uzgunum

Uzgun olman icin hic bir sebep yok. Neseli ol ki genc kalasin veya neseli
olan genc kalir.


>
>> 
>> >  
>oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>oooo
>> > 
>> >               .-~~-.--.
>> >              :         )                  IT IS NOT A DENIAL, I AM
>JUST
>> >        .~ ~ -.\       /.- ~~ .             VERY SELECTIVE ABOUT THE
>REALITY
>> >        >       `.   .'        <                I ACCEPT.
>> >       (         .- -.         )
>> >        `- -.-~  `- -'  ~-.- -'
>> >          (        :        )           _ _ .-:
>> >           ~--.    :    .--~        .-~  .-~  }
>> >               ~-.-^-.-~.\_      .~  .-~   .~
>> >                        \ \'     \ '_ _ -~
>> >                         `.`.    //
>> >                . - ~ ~-.__`.`-.//
>> >             .-~   . - ~ }~ ~ ~-.~-.
>> >         .' .-~      .-~       :/~-.~-./:
>> >        /_~_ _ . - ~                 ~-.~-._
>> >                                         ~-.<
>> 
>> What does this mean? 
>	Gulu seven dikeninede katlanir
>	veya
>	Dikenine katlanan gulunude sevmeli -:)

        Bence dikende ki 'de' ilave edilmis gibi.
Gulu seven dikenine katlanir
veya
Dikenine katlanan gulu sever.
>> 
>> Hurmetlerimle,
>> 
>> Nermin     ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
>> 
>> --
>> Dilde, fikirde, iste birlik.
>> Unity in language, in thought, in work.
>> Ismail Gaspirali (1851-1914)
>
>Selam getirmisem
>Suleyman

Hurmetlerimle,
Nermin



Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Turkish culture -- Orkhon monuments
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:06:24 GMT
Summary: mea culpa
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In an earlier article I gave the date of the earliest Turkic writings to
be 3rd century AD.  This is incorrect, they date from 732 AD, written in
the "runic" Gokturk script.  The script itself is guessed to date from
7th or 6th century AD by Barthold.  

Sorry for the mistake and thanks to those pointing it out.

regards,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
From: krenner@byron.u.washington.edu (Randolph Carter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources Greeks use
Date: 3 Jan 1993 08:03:10 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: byron.u.washington.edu

Serdar: I'd first like to state that I am absolutely neutral on the history
of Armenians vs. Turks. I am interested in asking you a question, in the
form of a dilemma:

Let's say that one day an extremely powerful being appears to you and
announces that it is going to destroy all Turks everywhere. It is
(for the sake of argument) perfectly capable of causing all Turks to
vanish off the face of the earth in an instant, and there is nothing
anybody can do to stop it. However, this powerful being has decided to give
you, Serdar a choice. Your choice is this. You can choose one of two
alternatives:

a. The being destroys all Turks everywhere.
or
b. The being destroys all Turks, Armenians, and Greeks everywhere.

What do you choose? Remember, if you do not choose, the being will go 
ahead and destroy only Turks. It's your choice! Turks only, or Turks,
Armenians and Greek as well get destroyed!

Thanks for your cooperation.
 
R. Carter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Subject: Re: Bir mani (folk song)
Keywords: Biyik
Reply-To: ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:23:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.151507.23598@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.115305.10338@news.columbia.edu>,
>ne10@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Nermin  Eren) writes:
>> 
>> Asagidaki mani Kirim Tatar lehcesindedir. Biyik ile ilgili atismalarda
>bizim de tuzumuz olsun.
>> 
>> Kaya kayaga bakar, kayadan seller akar.
>> Sirma miyik turganda, chort sakalga kim karar?
>	Turkce'si:
>	Kaya kayaya bakar, kyadan seller akar.
>	Sirma biyik dururken, kose sakala (tuysuze) kim bakar/(karar kilar)?
>
>	Bu dogru cevirimi acaba?

Bu maninin Anadolu'da soylenen sekli:
	Kale kaleye bakar, kaleden kanlar akar
	Delikanli dururken ihtiyara kim bakar.
Sizin cevirinizdeki "kose sakal" kismi zannedersem yanlis. Cunku kose olan bir kisinin sakali olmasa gerek. "Chort" kelimesinin ne manaya geldigini tam olarak ben de bilmiyorum. Kirim Tatarca'sinin yapilmis bir sozlugu bildigim kadari ile yok. Bu yuzden size tam olarak bir aciklama yapamiyorum. Fakat cumlenin gelisinden cikan mana bence "kIr (grey)" olmasi gerekir. Cunku "sirma" kelimesi biyigi tanimliyor ve mecazi olarak gencligi ifade ediyor. Buna gore "chort" kelimesi de ihtiyarligi ifade etmesi gerekir



.


>
>Selam getirmisem
>Suleyman

Selamini almisem
Bilmukabele edirem
Nermin

>> Kaynak; Mustacip Ulkusal, DOBRUCA VE TURKLER. 2ci baski, Ankara: 1987.


>-- 
>	"Too many small smarmy monks around, I love them, however."
>       		                                   Ishak Shalikom
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Signoff...
Date: 29 Dec 1992 23:44:30 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

23 December 1992

The academic year in many colleges and universities will be ending
soon. If you are a student with his/her account about to close, or if
you will not be able to keep up with your mail during your finals
and/or winter vacation, do not forget to sign off from the TRKNWS-L...
   To sign off, send an e-mail to:

    listserv@uscvm.bitnet

Your e-mail should contain a single line saying:

   signoff trknws-l

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ahmet Toprak

trknws-l
trknws-l@uscvm.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: hla@urartu.sdpa.org (H. Hirac Asodyan)
Subject: Ozal's Statement on Armenian "Exodus"
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:43:45 GMT


  The Marmara Armenian daily newspaper of Istanbul, Turkey, had an interesting
news piece on its December 21, 1992 issue regarding the Turkish president 
Turgut Ozal's recent speech which touched upon the Armenian-Turkish issues at 
the [Turkish] Businessmen's Union. Only the first a few paragraphs -- from the 
start of the article to the end of the section dealing with the said issue 
only are translated entirely in this article. All brackets are mine.

PRESIDENT OZAL: WE DO NOT COVET LANDS OF ANY OTHER COUNTRY

"In The Past, If You Drew A Line From Artvin To Mersin, 20 % Of The Population 
[To The East Of It] Would Be Armenians"

 The president of the republic, Turgut Ozal made an important speech at a 
gathering organized by the Businessmen's Vakif [Union], especially stressing 
the security and unity problems of the country. The main theme of the 
president was that Turkey absolutely did not covet the lands of any of its 
neighbors, that occupying somebody else's territory meant a headache in these 
days [aah, good old days!!!] and that ultimate interests of Turkey demanded 
that Turkey have good relations with its neighbors.

The Armenian Question

 In his speech, Ozal touched upon the Armenian Question and came up with an 
important analysis. 
 "At that time, said Ozal, if a line were drawn from Artvin to Mersin, east of 
which the Armenians made up 20 % of the population -- a nation which we have 
lived together with for many centuries. Regardless of which nationality they 
belong, it is unacceptable that people are uprooted and taken elsewhere. 
During the period, numerous families [of Turks] protected each other 
[Armenians]. A mass of people having been deported reminded me the expulsion 
of the Jews [of Spain] to Turkey".
 The president of the republic reminded that Turkey went through different 
circumstances to reach where it is today [practically Armenian-free :-)]. 
These circumstances must be interpreted well, [just as] the conditions of the 
past periods must be understood well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POSTER'S NOTE: One wonders what kind of flak will Ozal get for such a remark 
which is far more innocuous than a couple of statements by the founder of 
modern Turkey, Ataturk on the destruction of the Armenians in Turkey. Since 
then, no Turkish president ever mentioned anything close to regrets over the 
issue. As in the case of his apparent willingness to negotiate a limited 
cultural autonomy for the Kurds, Ozal has made another "politically correct" 
small move to help bolster his -- and why not -- Turkey's image 
internationally.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Rochester
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:04:53

In article <29808@castle.ed.ac.uk> emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral) writes:

> Bankacilik, krediler ve faiz...  Bunlar dunyayi somuren para babalarinin
> kullandiklari araclar.  En basit bir ornek vereyim;
> Bugun bir is yapmaya kalkan biri bankadan kredi almaya kalksin.  Bu krediyi
> daha sonra belli bir faiz yuzdesi ile geri odemek zorundadir.  Ister
> kalkistigi is basarili olsun, ister olmasin.  Boylece banka kesinlikle
> kaybetmeden her seferinde paranin ticaretini yaparak kolay yoldan risksiz
>kazanir.  Is adami ise aldigi parayi isletebilirse ve borcunu faiziyle odeyebi
> se kendini kazanmis sanir.  Eger basarili olamazsa artik neyi karsilik
> olarak gostermisse bu mallar elinden gider.
>
> Islami bir isletme ise kredi verdigi taktirde HEM KARDA HEM DE ZARARDA
>
> ORTAKTIR.  Iste Erbakan'in bahsettigi adil duzenin bir uzantisi en basit
> bir ornekle budur.  Adalet!  Tabii ki bu para babalarinin isine gelmediginden
> boyle bir adil esit risk, esit kazanc ve kayip yolunu tercih etmemektedirler.

Bu Islami isletmenin "gayri-Islami" karsiligi paraya ihtiyaci olan sirketlerin
hisse senedi ihrac etmesi oluyor galiba.  Ben ekonomist degilim ama 
burada hoca pek yeni birsey soylemiyor bence.  Bu duzen Turkiye'de
var su anda bildigim kadariyla.   Simdi bir ornek dusunelim:

Diyelim ki benim bir miktar param var ve bu parayi kullanacak bir 
isim yok.  Ahmet Bey bana geliyor ve diyor ki: "sen bana bu parayi bir
seneligine borc ver, ben sana bir sene sonra parani %x fazlasiyla geri 
vereyim, veremezsem suradaki mulkum senin olsun."  Ben de tamam diyorum.  
Alan razi veren razi degil mi?  Simdi Erbakan hocanin duzeninde, ben Ahmet
Bey'le bu anlasmayi yaptigim zaman polisler kapiya mi gelecek?  Boyle
anlasmalar yasak mi olacak?  Hoca zorla beni Ahmet beyin isine ortak mi 
edecek?  Benim anladigim bugun ne ortak olamam yasak, ne borc vermem.
Hoca duzen degisikliginden bahsettigine gore, zaten serbest olan seyleri 
serbest birakmaktan degil, yasaklamaktan bahsediyor herhalde.  Acaba
cok basit mi dusunuyorum?  Beni bir aydinlatsaniz?

[bundan sonrasini sildim]

cevaplar nete lutfen

BM
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: ERBAKAN HOCA ve EKONOMIK PROGRAMI (Islamcilardan secmeler)
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:26:39 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <Dec.21.18.07.57.1992.19716@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>
>>  Bugun bir is yapmaya kalkan biri bankadan kredi almaya kalksin.  Bu krediyi
>>daha sonra belli bir faiz yuzdesi ile geri odemek zorundadir.  Ister
>>kalkistigi is basarili olsun, ister olmasin.  Boylece banka kesinlikle
>>kaybetmeden her seferinde paranin ticaretini yaparak kolay yoldan risksiz
>>kazanir.  Is adami ise aldigi parayi isletebilirse ve borcunu faiziyle odeyebi
>>se kendini kazanmis sanir.  Eger basarili olamazsa artik neyi karsilik
>>olarak gostermisse bu mallar elinden gider.
>
>It doesn't follow. If a bank lends $10 million and the guy goes bankrupt
>how does the bank get all its money ? Why is there no risk? 

There are certain conditions for someone to be able to get a loan.  If this
is a state it has its resources.  For example Saudi Arabia is paying US
by petrol for x number of years.  
Turkey does not have resources, so Turkey is paying by reducing the value of 
its money.  In the long run, as long as the bank is powerful enough as they
are now, they have no risk and are able to get back what they have given in
multitudes of time.  And just think, if they have acted like gangs and
sucked the resources from the countries, then the money they have is actually
of the countries that owe money to them anyway.
Do you have any idea how much money has Turkey paid to the World Bank as
interest, let alone the amount towards the principal loan?  These international
loan sharks are even controlling the White House.  Just think how much
it costs to run an election campaign and an ordinary person no matter who he is,
can he run such a campaign?


>>Islami bir isletme ise kredi verdigi taktirde HEM KARDA HEM DE ZARARDA
>>ORTAKTIR.  Iste Erbakan'in bahsettigi adil duzenin bir uzantisi en basit
>>bir ornekle budur.  Adalet!  Tabii ki bu para babalarinin isine gelmediginden
>>boyle bir adil esit risk, esit kazanc ve kayip yolunu tercih etmemektedirler.
>
>There are advantages and disadvantages if you look at both systems in
>a simplistic way. The fact of the matter is they're the same if
>you analyze them from the point of view of the mathematics of risk.

If I have a money machine, and I print money and give it to people
as a loan expecting them to pay me more than what I have given them,
and they do not have that money machine and they have to actually
work and gain money to pay me what I produced falsely, and extra money
(which will ensure that they can not prosper and they will be paying me
for the rest of their life), do you think this is fair?
This is what is happening in international arena.   Inshallah I will
pass some points proving this later on.

Hamid
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy