From: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu (P. Andrew Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: What!??!? I'm not finished?!
Date: 15 Dec 1992 13:38:04 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I wrote:
> The twelfth step (yeppers, we're in December...) states: "Having
> had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps, we tried
> to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles
> in all our affairs."

And Jim responded:
> Phil goes on to list some 'principles'....
> Nice stuff, but this step says 'these principles' & 'these steps' (not
> 'the' steps, as Phil misquoted 8-). It doesn't say 'some other principles
> that you may can dig out of the text somewhere.' it says 'these principles'.
> 
> ...and in the next paragraph, the BB sez 'the principles we have set down
> are guides to progress.'
> 
> OK jim, whaddinahellya talking about?
> 
> ..simple. Principle - 'a guide or rule establishing conduct, behaviour or
> action.' The principles are the Steps. Twelve principles.

        [I cut out the rest for brevity's sake.]

I love this!  It looks like Jim and I are gonna disagree.  (Though I
think whether one agrees with Jim or I or thinks we're both all wet
doesn't really matter.)

Are 'these' steps that little laundry list of directions given on
pages 59 & 60?  Or are 'these' steps the directions given in the
chapters in the book?  Or are 'these' steps the steps I took,
following those directions?  Or are these steps the steps I learned
in the treatment center?  ...

OK.  Well, I can tell you that the treatment center stuff didn't keep
me sober.  What they had me do wasn't what was listed in the book.
Personal opinion: the steps I learned in the TC weren't 'these' steps.

OK.  Are they the laundry list on page 59?  Personal opinion: No.
I showed up, heard people say "My name is Ed.  I am an alcoholic.
My life is unmanageable."  So I said it.  Even thought I was an
alcoholic.  Did I "do" step one?  No.  Hadn't a clue what an
alcoholic was.  Thought I was one.  But I didn't know what it was.
But I had admitted it.  This list isn't very specific.

OK. Are these steps the directions in the book?  Personal opinion:
Yes.  Very specific directions are given regarding the 4th, 5th,
3rd, and every step.  (Except 1 and 2.  All we have to do for one
and two is be convinced of a few things, according to page 60.)
And they had promised very specific directions in the forward.
And there are many principles listed in those directions.

OK.  Are these steps the actions I took?  Personal opinion: Yes.
I make the steps my own.  Can you work the same steps I did?  No.
Can you work similar steps?  Yes.  In any case, the principles I
learned throughout are also the principles I must live by.

So anyway, what is the point of all this.  Well, I think Jim and I
will continue to disagree on this matter.  Is this all important?
Probably not.  Cause I'll bet if you ask either of us, we could
probably work together to carry 'this' message to alcoholics.
If either of us get a phone call from the answering service, or
whoever answers the phone lines, saying there is a drunk who
wants to talk to a recovered alcoholic, we'd both go.

Phil W (Moscow, ID)