HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: Is Clinton Wilson?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:50:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.204152.29194@ttinews.tti.com> jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson) writes:

>Some of us have noticed, and have remarked in this forum, that trends in
>the US seem to bear a strong similarity to the events that we lived
>through in Britain several decades ago.

>In the news last week was the support given to Candidate Clinton by groups
>of normally solid Republican businessmen. Clinton is stressing change,
>government support for technology development, and the need for the US
>to renew itself competitively. For me it was a case of deja vu all over
>again. Back in about 196? we had Harold Wilson, bright young(ish),
>academically inclined politician pretending to working class roots,
>challenging the wizened, bleating heir to a long period of rule by an
>administration which had become stale, tired and lost. (It is fun to draw
>the parallels with MacMillan and Reagan, and Bush and Home -- the former,
>however one disagreed with what they stood for, certainly had great style
>and charm, while their successors conspicuously lacked both those
>qualities). The Wilson campaign was using some phrase like helping Britain
>with the "The white heat of a technological revolution" (perhaps someone
>will provide the correct version) and he too had some business leaders
>convinced that he offered a better way into the future.

I suspect that Clinton, like Wilson does not totally recognize the magnitude
of the problems he's proposing to solve (at least his speeches don't address
them).  Just as in Wilson's time Britain thought that keeping "the bomb"
would do something for their prestige while the economy was continuing to
deteriorate--Clinton is proposing that the Reagan-Bush program of military
power is spending money that could be better spent on health care and other
social programs.

Unfortunately a country is basically strong if it is productive.  When it
subsidizes industries which should be turned out to pasture the economic
costs of the inefficencies will overpower it.

For example, in the U.S. at the present time, Government health care programs
cost about 4 or 5 times per person what comparable private programs cost and 
yet we are constantly bombarded by people who want the government to do more.

If Clinton is elected, he will need to disassemble the programs that haven't
been working to find funds to create the ones that need to be increased.
Regardless of who is elected next month, the congress will be more conservative
and spending more money without solving problems will not work politically.

Charlie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)\
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.114848.9209@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.131533.19920@aber.ac.uk>, mhr@aber.ac.uk (Michael Richards) writes:
> > The cost of imports is surprisingly low, even when transport is added, The
> > Economist reported recently that it costs less to transport 100 000 tonnes
> > of low sulphur coal from Virginia than for British Rail to shift the same
> > amount from Selby to the Drax power stations.
> > 
> > 					Mike.
> 
> If it did, it's wrong. To get 100,000 tons of coal from Virginia needs a
> fortnight or so across the Atlantic on a ship crewed by (say) ten, followed by
> (again, say) 1000 lorries from Liverpool to wherever the power station is. (I
> take it it's somewhere near Selby!). That's 1000 lorries driven by 1000
> lorry-drivers driving for a few hours. To get by train takes much less time
> *and* you only have to pay two people. 
> 
> What the Economist may well have said is that it costs less to buy coal from
> Virginia than from Selby. In terms of cash, maybe, but certainly not in terms
> of pollution. 

Would you care to justify this statement?

Simon

-- 
  Simon Patience
  Open Software Foundation			Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
  Research Institute				FAX:   +33-76-51-05-32
  2 Avenue De Vignate				Email: sp@gr.osf.org
  38610 Gieres, France				       uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13436 rec.arts.books:17427
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:28:21 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

[Amongst other things..]

>|> When I *did* read Shakespeare for the first time in seventh
>|> grade (at a private school), we read the plays out loud, and it was
>|> difficult.  Most of my classmates hated it. 

>I started doing the same thing at age eleven, but you have one
>advantage over me.  I don't read minds, so I don't know if
>most of my classmates hated it or not.

You don't have to read minds Jon, you ask them at playtime. It's called
speaking to friends but then, maybe you didn't have any friends to speak 
to speak to.


>|> In ninth grade (at a public high school), we had to do _The 
>|> Merchant of Venice_.  I understood it (though I didn't like 
>|> that one).  Almost none of my classmates had any notion of 
>|> what the play was about.  They couldn't understand it.  They 
>|> hated it.  They hated English class.  They resented reading.  
>|> *That's* the problem.

>The whole curriculum should be oriented around what you *think*
>your classmates thought.   Yup, that's a problem, all right.

If you've no friends, that could indeed be a problem.


Dave

--
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The end of society as we know it (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:12:42 GMT
	<BvJDG4.CBt@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <BvJDG4.CBt@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:

   As for wave, if I remember, the River Severn is the only place in the UK
   with enough of a tidal bore to make it viable - environmental shock-horror
   all round.

You forgot the coastline - we're surrounded by seas and oceans and stuff like
that, not just tidal waves in rivers.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:20:44 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1992Sep28.181734.4500@bnr.uk> agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
>British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
>(or in my case the English)?
>
 The English are so superior that they take offense at nothing.

 Although I suspect that teh Australian 'Pommie' is intended to be derogatory.

Jim Munro



Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.motorcycles
From: klinger@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger)
Subject: Re: Know someone at Triumph or Norton???
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:29:24 GMT

In <SES.92Oct6115651@cmns-sun.think.com> ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero) writes:

>In article <1992Oct5.182245.11475@pixel.kodak.com> dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes:
>   Are there any British motorcycle companies?  Triumph and BSA merged over
>   20 years ago, Norton merged with them some years later, then there was
>   the Meriden Workers Cooperative trying to make something out of the
>   remnants of the Norton-Villiers-Triumph lash-up after it all collapsed,
>   and then -- what?  Maybe a cottage industry in parts for classic bikes
>   but hardly anything to keep Papa Honda awake at night.  Tell you what:

>Maybe Papa Honda ought to lay of the Halicon; Norton and Triumph are completely
>separate companies. Norton is pretty much a niche company, producing 
>a 588cc rotary engined sport bike (F1 Sport, #8514), and a touring bike
>(Krauser Commander, #6616, c/w krausers). They've been having a little trouble
>lately, but they seem to be recovering.

>The rebirth of Triumph is little short of amazing; they have an ultra modern
>factory, and are producing a full range >750 bikes, using a very modular 
>design; they're currently sorting out an importer for the States- these are
>mainstream bikes that are as good as or better than the Japs. 

 Funny, I used to ride a Bonnie for 8 years. I ride a Jap bike now but
still can't bring myself to call these new ones Triumphs. There is
absolutely nothing Triumph to these things except the logo. It's a
rip-off of an old, no, legendary name. It's about as legitimate as
copying a 1000 Ninja, sticking an Indian logo on it, and calling it an Indian.
                               Jorg


>Norton

>Norton Motors
>Lynn Lane
>Shenstone
>Lichfield
>Staffs
>WS14 0EA
>Tel: 0543 480101

>Triumph

>Triumph Motorycycles Ltd
>Jacknell Road
>Dodwells Bridge Ind Est
>Hinkley, Leics
>LE10 3BS
>Tel: 0455 251700

>Details from the back of "Bike". Any problems, take it up with Ogri.

>Simon

>--
>-----
>Guest account at TMC 	|	Just Another  WAIS Hacker | DOD# 0612


Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:13:10 GMT

Alison J Wyld writes:
	
	Wouldn't it make more sense to make it compulsory that Shakespeare
	is *seen* rather than read.  On paper I find him difficult but
	on stage I think he's wonderful.  Of course requiring classes to
	go to the theatre would cost money...


I agree that Shakespeare is easier and more fun to watch than to read.
One of my high school drama teachers said the same, pointing out that
it was written as a play to be seen.

This same teacher, when we did "MacBeth", sent a notice to all the 
English teachers in the school not to assign the play to their classes.
He didn't want a bunch of people in the audience who were required to
be there.  Made sense to me.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: pleach@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Paul Leach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:09:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep29.123926.12123@sei.cmu.edu> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.070708.11757@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>
>>Somehow I doubt it. I saw this year's exam papers in Scotland, and there
>>was Shakespeare, but no Robert Burns, probably the world's best known poet.
>
>Bard, yes; even National Bard of Scotland, at a stretch.  But Burns a
>poet?  Pull the other one - by that standard, the dude who writes the
>stuff in Hallmark greeting cards is the world's best known poet.

I agree with Craig, Burns is the worlds best known poet. 

The person who writes for Hallmark never signs his/her work (I wouldn't put
my name to such trash palmed off as poetry either) therefor the Hallmark 
"poet" is the worlds best unknown poet.
 
			Regards
                           Paul



--
*  THE FRANKLIN INSTITUTE SCIENCE MUSEUM, FUTURES CENTER AND FELS PLANETARIUM*
*    The Franklin Institute  *  This post is made possible by a generous     *
*    20th St. & The Parkway  *  grant from: The National Opinions Foudation  *
*    Philadelphia, PA.19103  *  Phone : 215-448-1337  Fax : 215-448-1235     *
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13309 rec.arts.books:17297
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:57:11 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <CC.92Sep30111913@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.123615.1648@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
|> 
|>    So, what's the problem? Is the Shagger Pagger a Right Wing Loonie or
|>    something? Dreadful sexist overtones? Or is it that the Peasantry should
|>    not have access to the most universal of all writers in English?
|> 
|> The problem is that making the study of Shakespeare's works compulsory is the
|> most effective way of getting most of the population to loathe them utterly
|> until the day they die.  It's counter-productive.

I don't think I understand this.   Children experience education
on a one-off basis.   What they study, they study because someone
tells them to.   How does making Shakespeare a national requirement
change the experience of any one child studying it?


jon.
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:20:57 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep30.091450.917@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> In article <qfgu4g0@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|>
|> >
|> >Stupid argument.   If British coal is expensive, then importing
|> >cheap coal benefits coal's customers, and there are a damned 
|> >sight more jobs in British industries that *use* coal, than in 
|> >the British coal industry itself.
|> 
|> I'll have a pot-shot at this one, though, because the word 'stupid'
|> annoyed me.  The second sentence is true(-ish, with a twist I'll put on
|> in a minute).  However, even assuming it's 100% true, one effect of the
|> devaluation has been that the price in sterling of imported coal has
|> leapfrogged the price of British coal, so that the imports WON'T be
|> cheaper. 

Yes, of course, and perhaps even more expensive than domestic Gas.
It's not just coal v. coal.

|> However, British industry can't take advantage of this now
|> cheaper British coal, because the British government has decided, in
|> its wisdom, that the pits have to close.  'Demand' doesn't enter into
|> their equation.

That's not so.   The coal industry is not run this way.   In slack
times they work one or two shifts, and in good times the work three.
If they can really produce coal cheaper than imports, they will.

|> I'd argue that you have to count in the costs involved in putting the
|> workers out of a job -- increased demand for unemployment pay and
|> support facilities, loss to the government of the money they'd have
|> paid in taxes, and loss to the economy of the money they'd have spent.

The fallacy here is that this applies to every job, worldwide.
An economy makes its way in the world, not by insisting on doing
whatever it traditionally did out as far as the eye can see, but
by passing control.   If the Poles can produce coal cheaper, and
the Koreans can produce steel cheaper, let them.   The British
should be able to open up new industries.   If they can't, that's
another probelm, but it's unlikely to be solved by burying all
British industry under the weight of expensive domestic coal.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:49:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.164643.1506@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
>
>The reform was instituted by neither Harold Wilson nor Shirley
>Williams...
>
>During the 1960s and 1970s many local authorities chose to
>switch from selective systems to comprehensive systems. This
>required the signature of the government minister for
>education, and as it happens the minister who agreed to the
>most such conversions was the minister during the 1970-74
>government, one Margaret Thatcher.
>
>Why poor Shirley should be blamed for the problems is a mystery
>to me. I think there were some minor administrative chanegs
>during her period as education minister to encourage those
>authorities who had stuck to selection to change, but nothing
>"sweeping". To this day there are a few local authorities who
>have stuck to the selective system.

	I stand corrected, (my original comment) and reaffirm my
	great admiration for Shirley (and her mother).

	Alec Chambers
From: cbenson@bazooka.amb.org (Christopher Benson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Talking of bad teeth US/UK
Keywords: teeth dentist
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:24:12 GMT
Organization: AMB Research Labs, Sunnyvale, CA

My (USA citizen) wife and myself (UK subject (woops) UK Citizen) were
in England for a holiday in 1990.  My wife had a problem with an old
crown falling off and causing immediate pain.  We visited an NHS dentist
in the not-overly-metropolitan city of Truro, Cornwall.  We *confessed*
that my *at that time fiance'e* was an American, and therefore we would
have to pay.  They made a phone call to determine the Foreigner Price,
and came up with L12.00.  A year later, she had a similar problem with
a different tooth, and had the same treatment at an American dentist.
My employer provides us with a dental policy that covers 50% of such
work.  The American bill was $700.00 which was more expensive than
a return (round-trip) San Francisco <--> London plus NHS dental bill.

None of this would be relevant without the information that in UK,
as a single man I paid 29% income tax, and in USA with a wife and
seven children, I pay 29.5% income tax.

Posting from home... Chris Benson.
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:16:23 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <qfgu4g0@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.161657.14744@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>> It's also further confused by the fact that a lot of raw materials 
>> have to be imported, which might drive up the prices of British 
>> goods.
>
>The Japanese import almost all their raw materials, plus all
>their fuel.   That doesn't seem to stop them, now does it?

OK, I lied in my last response, because it occurs to me that I'd like to 
hit this point as well.  Correct me if I'm wrong...  (Actually, why do I
say that?  You'll certainly correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe even if 
I'm right.   (That's a joke, son, a joke...))  And have I mentioned that
I'm a lousy debater?  Takes me ages to think of proper responses.

Anyhow, interesting you mention Japan, because I often invoke them in
support of my feelings.  It is my understanding that the Japanese have a
strong record of government subsidies to private industry, both in terms
of direct subsidy, and more discreetly hidden as funded research projects.
And, that they do this not for strategic defense reasons, but simply to
ensure that they have strong industries placed to compete in particular
markets which they believe will be commercially important in future.

So convinced am I of the truth of this that I keep wishing the British
government would send some of their economists over to Japan, to learn
the secrets of their success and transplant some of them back here.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Words: American vs English (UK type)
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date:  7 Oct 92 01:29:30 GMT

In <1992Oct2.145442.14354@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:

>Daan Sandee writes:

>Wrong!!  Chris Malcolm said that a LORY was an Australasian parrot.
>As any decent English or American dictionary will tell you.

Ahem. Actually a lorikeet. I've never heard them called "Lory"s before.

What do people over in the UK call Tractor-trailer rigs (to use the 
American parlance)? We call them Semi's (from semi-trailer or
semi-articulated, which doesn't really make a lot of sense).


regards,

-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
"Detachment of any of the four wheels adversely|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 affects vehicle stability..." -               |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Grocers (was Re: Abuse a Brit (was...))
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:57:05 GMT
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin

David Brooks writes:
 
> Recall that TBM spent her formative years living over a grocer's shop, and
> how she made it suddenly OK to be petite bourgeouisie (well, Ted Heath did
> that a little too).

  Maggie and Ted had precious little in common, but one of the few
characteristics they did share was that by no stretch of the imagination
could either of them be described as 'petite'.


> Four more months!  Four more months!

  Are you pregnant?  I think we should be told.



Struan.

PS:  Nothing personal.  I think the thought of Dollie Shaggy Yellodog
     replying 100% has temporarily unhinged my brain and made me
     irrationally critical and vicious.
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systems Now in U.K.
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:54:04 EST

Regarding John Scoggin's request for information on RAID systems for
VINES, Storage Computer of Nashua, N.H. is currently showing its new high
performance RAID 7 disk array platforms at the September International VINES
User Meeting.  SCSI-based, they work equally well with NetWare, workstations,
IBM systems, VAXes, etc.  I found out that Storage Computer has just opened
up its new European headquarters in Frankfurt.  The telephone there is
(49) 6917-2145.  The FAX is (49) 6917-2149.  They are handling their U.K.
operations out of Frankfurt at the moment, so it is not necessary to
call Storage Computer headquarters in the U.S.

Standards-based, RAID 7 is designed for enterprise-wide computing and
overcomes performance limitations of earlier RAID architectures, providing
a  "real world sustained application performance improvement of 200% to
400%" and dropping the cost of storage to 16 cents/MB.  Their brochures
say they can "mix and match" up to 48 SCSI commodity (3.5 or 5.25 inch)
drives, up to 150 GB.  The RAID 7 disk array platforms come with an embedded
operating system and up to 12 SCSI-2 based host interfaces.  Besides servers,
Storage Computer's RAID 7 disk array platforms can connect to workstations
and midrange systems in addition to IBM's.  Multiple CPUs can be attached to
same disk array platform.

The RAID 7 platforms come with up to 256 MB of cache, eliminating any
reason for using performance-damaging CPU main memory disk RAM.  The
drives are "hot plugable" for uninterrupted, transparent operation,
with a hot standby drive automatically replacing a failed drive.

There was a lot of activity this week at the Storage Computer RAID 7 booth
at the Boston Banyan show as I walked by.  They were demoing what happens if
a drive goes down, showing the backup drive taking over.

For further information on Storage Computer's RAID 7 for any system, their
key US contact is indicated to be John O'Brien, Director of Technical
Services at Tel. 603-880-3005 or FAX 603-889-7232.  John is the original

"guru" of the RAID 7 advances, and a well-known RAID industry figure.

Cheers! ------- Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13517 soc.culture.celtic:6449
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Date: 3 Oct 1992 16:29:58 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Alasdair Grant selectivizes the evidence:
>of genetics. On the one hand we have people telling us that Ireland is
>a Celtic country, on the other they say that Celtic people have certain
>kinds of skin/hair colour. Then you combine the two things.

But wait!  On the, uh, 3rd hand, we have had people tell us the
Irish are not Celtic at all (a la Bob Quinn), & others dispute
the hair/skin color stories.  Why did you discount or ignore them?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british