HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Group activity
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:14:23 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Greetings from Ellisif, speaking in her private, not official, capacity.

>  [The East Kingdom Seneschal's] answer, as I understood it, was that the
>  kingdom expends a certain amount of its resources supporting each branch,
>  and therefore the branch owes something back to the kingdom.

>*This*, I find highly interesting.  Perhaps one of our Kingdom Officers,
>or former Kingdom Officers, could enlighten me on what services the
>Kingdom provides branches, even moribund ones, that merit compensation?

I don't agree with the reasoning attributed to Sedalia, but I will take
a crack at answering Tibor's question.  The things I'm going to list are
services provided either by the kingdom or through Society funds.  Sometimes
they're hard to separate.

  Free publication of a group's events, practices, etc.  I realize this
  begs the specific question (which was "why should we have to have 
  published events?"), but I'm answering a more general question.

  Free dissemination of a group's contact information (i.e. regnum listing)
  to members and prospective members.

Both of the above help the local group to grow.  The publicity lets a group
attract more people; said people will probably help run things, do research,
raise the standard of living, take on offices and thus keep the group going,
and so on.  Publication of events results in larger turnouts, leading to
more income and diversity.

  Free assistance in areas of the group's interest.  Want to have fighting
  but don't have a marshal?  We'll train one for you.  Want a newsletter?
  We'll help you get started.  Want to learn more about weaving?  We'll
  put you in touch with some experts not too far away.  You can do all of 
  these things without kingdom officers (and most are better done that way,
  in my opinion), but these are services that are available to local groups.
  They are mostly useful to new or moribund groups who may need a jump-start.

  Free access to people who are actually willing to deal with legal and
  tax issues so you don't have to (much).  Primarily useful to autocrats,
  I'd guess.

  (Of course) Insurance coverage, for whatever it is or isn't worth.

The last is paid by membership fees, and is not provided by the kingdom.
I mention it anyway because the primary reason we *need* insurance is to
allow groups to hold events and practices.

These are the ones I can think of off-hand.  There are probably others.
Let me reiterate, though, that I do not support the "you owe the kingdom"
argument; without the local groups and their members the kingdom would just
shrivel up and die, and that by itself ought to be worth something in the
balance sheet.

Ellisif
From: jtthorp@hubcap.clemson.edu (J. T. Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:59:28 GMT
Organization: Canton of Falcon Cree, Atlantia

Unto the fishers of the Rialto does Elwood Wayward give greetings!

In article <Yf0b7ze00iUzQ1dLEp@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin William Ryan <kr0u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>    In doing some research on a pet project of mine I ran across a
>number of references to portable sundials. Accurate to within 10-15
>minutes, even for the very small ones. The simplest was a 1.5 inch
>diameter ring with a pinhole in one side, a string from the top, and a
>scale (marked with the months) on the inside showing the time. Hold it
>up, turn it until the dot of light hits the right monthly scale, and
>there you have the time. There are also the various card sundials
>working on similar principles: line up a sight with the sun, and a
>hanging cord (with a bead that can be slipped to the proper scale to
>reflect the month) pointing out the time of day. I'm tempted to make up
>a few and market them at next Pennsic. Of course, this presupposes that
>the sun is out... moondials are much more complicated to use.

I believe I saw an ad from the Franklin Mint about the very device you
describe.  I was being promoted as a replica of a time-piece that was
used by George Washington.  Of course, the asking price was a bit
outrageous(by *my* standards).  This is not intended to say that the
piece is OOP, just that there is one "commercially" available.  Go ahead
and make a few to market though!

I agree with the idea of using a pocket watch as a medalion.  It sounds
like a good idea.  Unfortunately, if I had a pocket watch, it would have
an American 4-4-0 on it :)

Elwood Wayward


-- 
JT Thorpe	 __________________         ===+==___()__o_][ c
 Clemson 	   |[][][] |[]| |   _/-----| |=|=|   |    |  ]}  
University	 [_|_______|__|_|_]|_______|=|___|-----------___ 
 CS Dept           oVo        oVo  oVo   oVo   (o) (o) (o)  oo \\
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Carolus Goes on another Invasion
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 16:49:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta


I will be flying into Mt Vernon Washington on Christmas Eve,
there to stay until January 1.

I would like to know if there are any fightier practices,
tourneys, or plain old bloody minded maniacs who would 
like to meet me on a field.

I'd hate to go down there into kingdom core and not
get any dents in my armour...

Please respond ASAP

Carolus Malvoix
Looking for trouble
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You know you're in the SCA....
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 08:33:04

    Colin MAckay of Balmaghie wrote:

 CH> I do remember at a local fair many long moons ago I was in garb as a
 CH> Hospitaller with another gentle similarly attired and some one asked
 CH> if we were in the KKK he was serious and seemed disappointed that we
 CH> were not. I don't want to even speculate on why he thought that black
 CH> monks type of robes were white KKK robes!:-)

 I wear a white robe with grey scapular and hood in Texas, and I've never
 been mistaken for KKK - although a girl in a convenience store once asked
 me in hopeful tones if I were a Muslim... "Are y'all in a rock band?" is
 also popular when dealing with our late-period types.

 When people ask me if I'm in a play, I just say "No, God told me to dress
 this way." That usually works, in Ansteorra....

    Tadhg

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Robert.Lyle@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Lyle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Shire awards
Date: 3 Nov 92 09:13:22 GMT

I would like to corroborate Ms Pilkington's statements.  They were true in every particular.  I myself spent over a dozen years in the "Shire of Podunk," and have seen many years go by without seeing a peer or noble.  The Crown has  never visited Podunk, but the last Coronet of Ansteorra did.  
During the first few months of incipiency, Prince Sir Simon of Amber, Princess Tessa, and Sir Karl der Gonger came up to hold a fighter practice and offer the only real encouragement we had for years.
By the way, "broke college students" means that I bought a helm and then couldn't travel for six months.  I had just got my armor and budget under control when steel elbows and knees were required: I never did get that together, although in later years we finally learned to make our own (again, much thanks goes to their excellencies Simon and Tessa).

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Help, please...
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:51:54 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hi folks,

I'm in need of a small bit of help from anyone on the Rialto that fits
one of two descriptions:

     o Within hailing distance of Katoomba, Australia

     o An Apple Computer employee on the Cupertino campus

The first is for an SCA project, the second for a mundane one.

Many thanks in advance -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Medieval Astronomy
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:59:28 GMT

In article <1dkr1aINNcvt@network.ucsd.edu>, reynolds@yin.ucsd.edu (Andy Reynolds) writes:

> 	I am interested in astronomy in these present times and was wondering
> if anyone might know of any sources of info on astronomy in the middle ages?
> I am particularly interested in 11th-13th century methods.  I am looking for
> anything that might give me an idea of how to practice the science (or art)
> in a period way.  Any help would be appreciated.

Andreu,
I am very interested in medieval astronomy and am currently working on an 
annotated translation of Chaucer's 'Treatise on the Astrolabe'. I have already
made an astrolabe and a quadrant and will be working on some sundials and an
amillary sphere over the next few months. If you, or any other scadians, are
interested in medieval scientific instruments and astronomy, send a message to
me at:
Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au
and I will be glad to chat to you. For now, I would recommend getting hold of
a translation of John Sacrbosco's 'De Sphera' (a basic 14th cent intro to
astronomy) as well as looking at Gunther's 'Astrolabes of the World', Lynn
Thorndikes 'History of Magic and Experimental Science in the Middle Ages'
and taking a look at Chaucer's 'Astrolabe'. Few things explode the myth that
the period was a scientific dark age more than some practical experiments
with medieval astronomy.
Cheers,
Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Tasmania
Australia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Children in the SCA
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:51:30 GMT

Someone who didn't sign their posting wrote:
  I don't know how your event was, but most events I've been to (except for large
  camping events) have some form of child care (either there is once person in
  charge of all the children or some other system) but yes, something is ussually
  done so that the parents need not look after their children alll day.....

Not a fair presumption to make, or to promulgate.  Many (but not nearly all)
events have children's activities set up.  These are generally activities
that a parent and a child may participate in, together.  Many parents either
provide for child care, or make arrangements with other parents to share the
burden of caring for their children.

Any person who comes to an SCA event, without making prior arrangements for
someone to attend their child during the day, has made a grievous error.
Perhaps there will be childcare, or children's activities.  Perhaps not.
But, you should check in advance.  An SCA event is not an opportunity to
be rid of your responsibilities for an afternoon, nor should you impose
on your fellow travellers in the hope that they love your child just as
you do.  (gawd, the things I've seen...)

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: DESPRADO@ksuvm.ksu.EDU ("Citizen G. Aquilius Maximus")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Winner of Calontir Crown
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:17:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Hail Good Gentles of the Rialto!

   It is my pleasure to inform you of the winner of the Calontir Crown tourny.
 This is an especial pleasure for me, as the winner just happened to be my
 knight, Syr Chrystofer Kensor.   The fighting was intense all day, with severl
 fights lasting quite a few minutes (which seemed like hours, to those of us
 watching in anticipation).
   Ironically, in the finals it came down to Syr Angus of Blackmoor(sp? My
 apologies to Syr Angus if I got this wrong), and Syr Kensor, who have been
long time friends since their beginnings in the shire of Crescent Moon, where I
 am told that their competiveness has always been something to watch.  The
first of the three final fights, had Syr Angus winning at great swords, and
then Syr Kensor won the next two fights with sword and shield.
   Overall the day was one that saw much honor and chivalry, and just a heck of
 a lot of fighting.


  May fortune find you,

  Citizen G. Aquilius Maximus, Knight's Marshal, Shire of Spinning Winds,
     Calontir
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in the SCA
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 18:03:36 -0500

st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) writeth:

 RD>  I think that kids add a lot to the authenticity, and the fun, of an
 RD> event, if they are old enough to understand proper behaviour.

Big "if".  What to do *before* then is an occasional topic here....
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Strip the Willow
Date: 5 Nov 1992 17:22:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <720883380snx@babel.DIALix.oz.au> del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson) writes:

>Um, excuse me, but when did the Renaissance start and the Middle Ages finish?

Having nothing to do with dance ...

There's a story told about C. S. Lewis, that one day an Oxford colleague
met him walking across the quad, looking as smug as the canary who just
bit the cat.  And the friend asked him what was up, and Lewis said, "I
have just proven that in England the Renaissance never happened!"

"Alternatively," he went on before his friend could say anything,
"Alternatively, that if it _did_ happen it didn't make any difference."


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: GRS00045@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Neal Townley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Need advice for bardic tape!
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:06:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: lester.1dp4o2INNaoj
Distribution: world
Organization: Militant Society of Bards
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24



	Unto to the Rialto, does Niall MacFarlane, Royal Bard of Atlantia,
send greetings!


	Come this Christmas, my lovely Lady Sabine and I are contemplating
invading my fathers studio and making a tape. What we are thinking of singing
so far are Rose, Sir Hugh the Graham, Corn Grinding (maybe... still looking for
docs), To Portsmouth, Gaudete, The Gardeners child (Again only if I can find
docs with a date), Glassgow Peggy (which I think is period... I got docs 
somewhere...) , Blow winds blow (a scottish version of scarburo fair), 
and several others that I cannot remember at the moment... We would like 
this tape to be as period as we can be given our current time restraints and 
research capabilities. 
	What I would like is some suggestions... What would you like to see on
this kinda tape? If you have a suggestion, do you have a place I can get a
score, or a recording of it and docs? or better yet, could you provide them?
what would be a good way to get this tape out to the great wide world of 
the SCA cheeply and effectively? What kinda money would you pay for this 
kinda tape? (so far I am thinking the six to seven dollar range thus far
looking at my expenses for mass tape manufacture.)

	I have made one tape before, and my father dozens, so I know somewhat
what I am doing, but I would like your opinion because you are the one who
might buy this tape, so I want to make it so you like it.

	After we are done with that tape.... if we have time... we are also
thinking about a Sca tape... so we need suggestions on that too...


Thanks a bunch in advance,
Ld. Niall MacFarlane
Royal Bard of Atlantia
Sometimes known as BARDMAN! (When my knight isn't looking)
(Reserve your BARDMAN! t-shirts now while they still last!)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G.Guth)
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:18:44 GMT

On the topic of telling the time, just when were the first pocket watches
made?  I have a feeling that they, in their earliest forms, are not too
OOP.

Which leads to another question...how did ladies and gentlemen of means
tell time in period?  I'm especially interested in late period.  Was it
sundials all the way through?

Just curious..
Richard Britnell of Salisbury.
From: Terry.Buyers@f7.n3624.z1.fidonet.org (Terry Buyers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: russki garb
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 22:55:26 -0500

Henry Best writes:
 
 > From: Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best)
 >
 >   Greetings to all and sundry,
 >
 >   I have a lady in my shire who wants to wear russian or
 > bulgarian garb.
 > I have tried, in my own humble way, to find her some good
 > sources. All I can
 
 
I have some in Russian and some in English - most are out of print. 
I can be contacted c/o FIDO 3624/7 or at work at (803)642-9938.
 
Most are long years out of print so copies can be arranged.
 
                        Taras Stephan Karanczay
 
 
Disclaimer: Don't inhale this message.
 


 * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox(803)652-3760 PRNetSC SURVNet (1:3624/7.0)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Fealty, not oaths, to a kingdom
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:44:56 GMT

Gentle Dorothea has been forced to defend herself from Arval, and
now from me.  My apologies.
  Every time there's a new king in your home kingdom, send a letter
  with your fealty (if you're a Peer) or homage (if not)...

  [ ...Different Message...]

  Dear me, I guess it's interkingdom anthropology time again.  The language
  used in the West is "fealty" for Peers or Barons or Great Officers;
  occasionally "homage" for the rest of the populace (who are generally
  not called up at Coronation at all, else the ceremony would be longer
  than it is....).

  If it's different where you are, well, then, as the auctioneer used to
  say, call it what you like and use it for the same purpose....

This is not necessarily interkingdom Anthropology, but error.  Homage
and Fealty are not the same thing at all, and neither are the sole
prerogative of Peers and Great Officers.  What is their prerogative is
to do so in Coronation Court.

As the former president said "Calling a tail a leg does not make it
one."

If this error actually is codified into West Kingdom procedures,
it probably should be changed, as it is a grevious error.  I
would urge you to do so.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: sca homage/fealty
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:40:40 -0500

    Unto the Rialto in general and Hossein Ali Qomi in particular
     
    I must confess, I have wondered how it was even _possible_ 
that all this debate on knighthood and fealty could go on with 
nary a peep from you. I finally decided that you must have lost 
your eyesight. If your keyboard had been broken, you would have 
used another. If your fingers were broken, you would have hit the 
keys with a stylus in your mouth.   ;) 
  
    Alright, I accept what you have to say about homage and 
fealty at face value. (Mind you, I had to read your posting 
several times just to have a _clue_ what I was accepting..) Over 
the year and a half I have known you, I have learned to value 
your expert opinion on matters historical. 
   
    Now, that aside, I want to ask you the thing my boss always 
asks me: What's the bottom line? I have an inadequate grasp on 
what you have said to enable me to generalize on my own.
     
    Within the confines of the SCA, what is the best compromise I 
can choose between (no particular order) historical accuracy, 
enjoyment value & functionality, and what will work in the face 
of SCA tradition?
     
    Specifically, I want a "custom homage/fealty package" that I 
can use today. 
      
    I understand my relationship as shire seneschal (local 
chapter president) with the kingdom seneschal and with the 
corporate steward. What relationship can or should I have with 
the crown as shire reeve or what have you? 
       
    I understand my relationship as shire seneschal with local 
officers, both those who have kingdom counterparts and those 
whose warrants are held locally. Is there value in defining these 
offices as household staff or something? 
        
    As a plain vanilla holder of an AoA, is there a relationship 
I can or should enjoy with the crown as a subject? What if I am 
without an AoA? What if I'm an SCA peer? What if I'm a baron? 
(Is "unlanded baron" an oxymoron or does it have a valid 
historical precedent?)
         
    I could go on, but you probably get the picture. What can we 
make that will work and will give us value back for our trouble?
          
                            Henry Best, Isenfir, Atlantia
                    

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: visible inauthenticity of archery
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:19:00 GMT

I don't know about the rest of the folks, but I am condemning exactly
one thing; that most people who do SCA archery don't realize that what
they are doing is modern target archery in funny clothes.

From the sounds of things, you are doing much better archery, from
an authenticity standpoint, than 90% of those who shoot.  (I would
be very interested in the documentation for the 'square targets', if
anyone knows the lady who had it.)

The shoot you're describing sounds like what happened around
1500, when various Kings of England were trying hard to mandate
archery practice, partially by outlawing every other sport.
Didn't work very well.

If you can stand to wade through Froissart, he has a couple of
descriptions of English archers practicing.  (Now if only I
could *find* a copy of Froissart, instead of the paraphrases
in the sources I *have* found...)

Graydon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Group activity, 1650, Tangent, etc.
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:17:32 GMT

Bertram tangenteth :)

   All this work, remembering my early days in the Society and how much
   has changed since then, prompts another line of inquiry.  How do we
   mentally organize SCA generations?

One thing I've noticed is that the perceptions of how long someone's been
in the society are strongly colored by how active they are --- someone who
jumps right into everything as soon as they join quickly becomes tagged as
a long-timer.  I can't think of how many times I've heard people say
"You've only been around *how long*?!?"  Fiammetta and Gwydden can verify
this --- even Justin keeps forgetting how few years they've been SCA, despite
the fact that he's been there every step of the way....

			---Simon

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca