From: dusenbury@rddvax.decnet.lockheed.com
Subject: PATTERNS FOR BALLROOM DANCE COSTUMES
Gatewayed-From: ballroom@athena.mit.edu
Reply-To: dusenbury@rddvax.decnet.lockheed.com
Organization: None
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:14:18 GMT
Keywords: ballroom, mailing list

RE: BALLROOM DANCE COSTUMES

I noticed this advertisment in the Sapphire Ball (San Jose,  Cal, 
Nov 1992) program.
------------------------------------
PATTERNS FOR BALLROOM DANCE COSTUMES

Available through LJR designs catalog featuring:

- Fabrics from England's top ballroom dance supply housees
- Patterns of contemporary designs for men and women
- Rhinestones and feathers
- Pleated skirts and notions
- Glue from England
- A special Design Your Own Dance Dress section
- Custom-made costumes designed by LAURIE RUDD, dressmaker for
  (long list of wonderful hollywood movies)

Our  goal is to provide a new service for Ballroom  dancers  with 
top quality costumes as excellent as the pro's for LESS money.

Through our catalog you can:

- Order supplies and patterns
- Order a completed basic garment and decorate it yourself
- Order a designed an completely decorated, ready-to-wear costume
- Catalog is $10.00 to be applied toward your first order
  (Visa, M.C.,Discover cards accepted

LJR DESIGNS, 4813 W. LOVERS LANE, DALLAS, TEXAS, 75209
(214) 352-3739
------------------------------------------------------
I have no knowledge (or vested interest) in this business,
but  noted a lot of requests for this sort of service. "Check  it 
out"

Jay Dusenbury 
DUSENBURY@GALAXY.DECNET.LOCKHEED.COM




From cornett@geneva.crd.ge.com Mon Dec 14 05:56:04 1992
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From: cornett@geneva.crd.ge.com (dan  cornett)
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To: pora@hera.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: ballroom gowns
Newsgroups: rec.arts.dance
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY
Status: RO

I can answer one of the questions about your gown: competition
gowns are required to show the feet of the lady so that the judges
can see her footwork.


I think you have excellent idea to make a wedding dress that is not
worn once and then boxed away forever.  May your marriage ever be a source
of joy.


Best,
Danny



From <@ZERMATT.LCS.MIT.EDU:death@LCS.MIT.EDU> Mon Dec 14 09:44:09 1992
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:43-0500
From: Mark A. Sheldon <death@LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject: ballroom gowns
To: pora@hera.Berkeley.EDU
Message-Id: <19921214174331.1.DEATH@MICKEY-MOUSE.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Status: RO

    Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:33 EST
    From: Pora Park <pora%hera.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>



    Hello Dancers:


    I'm going to be sewing a ballroom gown pretty soon,
    not for competition but just to have a nice gown for
    dressier events.  Actually, it's to be my wedding dress
    and then I'll wear it dancing from then on.  

Congratualtions!  I've never made a ballgown --- or done any other
sewing, but I can recall various features of my partner's dresses.
Ours were for competition, of course.

    Does anybody out there have any experience sewing 
    ballroom gowns?  There aren't standard patterns out there
    so I'm having to design it all myself.  Some questions are

The design is at its heart quite simple.  Close fitting bodice
above a flowing, pleated skirt that rides on top of the hips and
usually is weighted at the hem --- feathered boas are popular for
this.  The bodice is then decarated with all the usual things.
Long, plunging backlines are good because they accentuate a long
spine line --- this is good.  Shoulders and sleaves are usually
chosen according to couple's body types:  I am much taller than my
former partner, and she would look very small without something on
the top.  Thus, she wore sleaves with attached wings with some
bulk on her upper arms to extend her shoulder line in hold.  A
plunging V-shaped back gave her a longer appearance in the back.
Wide scoops will accentuate width and I generally don't like them
--- but that's me.  A close fitting bodice is important because
you don't want to hide the lady's body line or make her look
saggy.  The front of the gown is really less important for
International Standard, because they are never seen during the
dancing.

    1)  How big a sweep is necessary in the skirt for a nice
	effect?  (A circle made of 5 yards of fabric?  8 yards?
	10 yards?)

I recall 9 to 10 meters.  Skirts are either full circle or 3
semi-circles (and I believe the latter is more standard).

    2)  How long can it be without tripping over it?  I'd like
	it floor length, but all those women in competitions 
	have them above the ankle.  Is that for a reason?

In fact, competitive gowns are made just below the knee these
days.  You will step on a floor-length gown (and so will your
partner) because as you bend your knees to lower, the gown will
really be all over the floor.  If you have correct technique, then
your legs are never straight when you are over them.  (They may
straighten when you extend to take a step.)  This will give the
illusion that competitors' gowns are longer than they are.  The
illusion is accentuated by the fullness of the skirt.  Even a
mid-calf gown can be cutting it close, especially in Tango (when
you are more into the legs all the time) and Quickstep, when you
often kick your feet up.  Even with my partners gown (just below
the knee), she has caught a heel in the hem and ripped out large
sections of the boa.  This had to be repared between heats at
competitions.  You may want to compromise because the shorter
length would not be so good for a wedding gown --- but floor
length is really not good for dancing.  Perhaps another solution
involving multiple skirts?  You'll have to talk to a dressmaker
for help here...

Oh yes!  There are usually 3 or four skirts.  The outer skirt is
heavier and looks nice.  Usually, one of the underskirts will
contain a wired hem that is wound in such a way as to push the
outer skirt's hem out.  This gives a look of more volume and also
helps keep the boa (if there is one) away from the feet.  I'm not
sure what the other ones are for...

    3)  What do those spectacular dancers wear underneath those
	off-shoulder, plunging backed dresses?  The standard
	boned bustier that brides wear would seem a bit uncomfortable.
	Is that true?  (Actually, what really holds those dresses on
	those women?  One of the demo's dresses at U.C. Berkeley's Fall
	Ball was strapless and stunning.  I'm guessing it was supported by 
	boning throughout the bodice.)

Perhaps.  But you should know about a common trick.  Often
plunging neck/back lines appear longer than they are:  there is
nude illusion material (you probably know about this stuff)
holding things together.  In fact, some apparently strapless gowns
have nude illusion straps that come over the shoulders or across
the chest or back.  Decorations can be used to make these even
harder to spot, especially at a distance.

My partner's gown had cups sewed into the bodice.  Natuarally,
this will vary in adequacy from person to person.  I do know
someone for whom this is a very important problem.  I'm not sure
what her current dress has, but her previous one lacked real
support.  She used some sort of device that actually adhered to
the skin.  These were placed under her breasts.  I've not actually
seen these devices, but apparently, the sweat of competition did
not dislodge them.  I believe that they had a plastic cup.  Sounds
uncomfortable to me.  I'm afraid that, as a man, I have little
knowlege in this area :-)

Good luck!!!

-Mark

From cpeters%waldorf.engin.umich.edu@srvr1.engin.umich.edu Mon Dec 14 09:52:27 1992
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:52:17 EST
Message-Id: <9212141752.AA18734@waldorf.engin.umich.edu>
To: pora@hera.Berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: ballroom gowns - rec.arts.dance #1671
Status: RO

In article <GpS=0Z-@engin.umich.edu>, cpeters@waldorf.engin.umich.edu
(catherine anne peters) writes:
> 
> 
> Hello fellow dancer and seamstress.  
> 
> I have lots to say on this subject.  I have designed and commissioned
a seamstress to make my ballgown for competition and I have recently
gotten married and had the experience of thinking of a wedding dress
that would be suitable for dancing.
> 
> There are three main criteria for a ballgown, whether it is to be used
for competition or for general formal dancing.  
> 
> First criteria: full flowing skirt.  My ballgown skirt was make of
chiffon (standard).  Because chiffon is sheer, you need several layers
of it or you need an opaque liner fabric that is just as soft.  I used
three layers of chiffon.  I wanted the skirt t> o be a full circle --
you can picture this if you imagine grabbing the bottom of the skirt at
the sides and holding it straight out at your waist (half circle in
front and half in back). If you spin around fast enough this kind of
skirt will stand st
> 
>  out. It turned out that this required 5 yards for each layer
(45 in. wide material), and I'm pretty tall so that's probably an
upper estimate.  I used four gores (four seams -- each at right angles
to each other). Some professionals prefer a skirt that i> s the
equivalent of a double circle  -- you can picture this if you imagine
grabbing the bottom of the skirt at the sides and holding it above
your head (one full circle in front and one in back).  The circumfrence
of such a skirt is enormous.  It is
> 
> lly quite effective when bordered with feathers.  I am not suggesting
you consider a double circle.  You should consider either a full or
slightly less than full circle. (Don't forget some opaque lycra
panties over your hose!)
> 
> Second criteria:  ankle length.  If you do standard ballroom dancing,
then you are probably taking fairly sizable steps, backwards, in heels.
 There is no way you can do this with a floorlength gown.  Take my word
for it -- I tried this at my wedding and > it didn't work.  After much
consideration, I opted for a traditional style wedding gown -- floor
length.  I don't regret this decision, but I regret thinking I would
be able to dance in it.  My new husband and I stepped out onto the
dance floor for o
> 
> tomary first dance as husband and wife.  The music started, we started
our waltz, and all eyes were on us.  By the time we got half way around
the floor, I had gotten my heel caught in my hem and had ripped a part
of the skirt.  But of course this did not>  matter because I was too
happy to care.  We simply stopped monetarily, I grabbed the majority of
the skirt in my left arm, and we continued on as if nothing had
happened.  This was fine, but it made dancing difficult for the
remainder of the evening
> 
> I said, I do not regret having a floorlength gown for my wedding
because our wedding was very formal and traditional.  If you feel you
want a floorlength gown for your wedding, then do it, dance while
elegantly holding the skirt in your left hand, and the> n later have
it hemmed shorter for general use.
> 
> Third criteria: freedom of arm movement.  A ballgown has to look
it's best when your arms are raised.  I quickly found that most
commercial wedding gowns do not fit this criterion.  I tried many on. 
The saleswomen thought I was strange as I stood in fron> t of the mirror
with my arms raised.  For example the very popular and elegant
off-the-shoulder-style is often a dissaster unless it has been made
loose enough so that when you raise your arms you do not raise the
entire dress off your bodice.  My ba
> 
>  is off the shoulder, but the small sleaves were fitted with me in
raised-arm position.  When I am standing with arms down, they droop a
bit.  I had my wedding gown made out of lace that was completely
fitted in the bodice and sleaves.  This way it looked>  good when
standing, and it didn't loose its intended shape when dancing.  The
bodice and sleave design will probably be your most difficult decision.
I suggest trying many dresses on and seeing what happens when you
raise your arms.  It was an enli
> 
> ng experience for me.
> 
> The final thing I will mention regards your question about
undergarments.  Of course this depends on your needs, but assuming you
prefer to wear some sort of bra ....   If you are set on  strapless,
or off-the-shoulder, then be prepared to be making minor>  adjustments
throughout -- there's no getting around it.  Many of the costumes are
made with bra cups built in -- this way you do not have to worry about
whether anything is showing.  They are also made with boning in the
bodice -- this is standard c
> 
> ction practice for any garment with a fitted bodice that extends
slightly past the waistline.  Also, many costumes are made with
flesh-colored elastic straps to hold it up.  I guarantee that even if
your strapless dress fits very well, it will travel down> ward when
you are in close contact with your partner on the floor.  This is the
reason for the straps.  You can color white elastic with liquid
foundation face makeup.  But you are probably not interested in
elastic straps since this is acceptable fo
> 
> stume, but not for anything else.  Other than having a bra built in,
your other option for a strapless gown is a good quality bustier.  Go
to a specialty shop for this and get personal attention, and expect to
pay $30 to $50. 
> 
> As you can tell, I have spent a fair bit of time thinking about this,
and I am a very experienced seamstress (with a PhD in Civil
Engineering, so even though I never had any courses in bridge
construction, I feel I have the credentials to advise you on ga> rment
structural integrity and constuction techniques).  Let me know if you
have more questions along the way.
> 
> Catherine Peters
> cpeters@engin.umich.edu


From stepan@falcon.natinst.com Mon Dec 14 16:08:00 1992
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From: stepan@falcon.natinst.com (Stepan Riha)
Message-Id: <9212150007.AA15289@falcon.natinst.com>
To: pora@hera.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: ballroom gowns
Status: RO

Pora, here is the file of ball-gown hints.  Good luck with the gown
and with your wedding.

---------------------------- Start of File -----------------------------
From: roder@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu (Brenda J. Roder)
Subject: Re: fancy ballroom dress
To: stepan@natinst.com (Stepan Riha)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 10:27:32 PDT

Here is the information I received in email and posting.  It is in no
very particular order, pretty much how I received it.
I have trimmed out most of the header information except for the
address of the person sending.

----- First, my original plea -----
>From roder@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu Mon Aug 19 14:56:47 1991

I'd like to make one of those dresses with the huge floaty skirts like they
wear for ballroom dance competitions.  I just watched a special about Fred
Astaire and Ginger Rogers movies and I was jealous of all of her dresses.

I have heard that the skirts for this type of dress are at least 2 full
circle skirts.  I have made circle skirts without a pattern, but can't
quite imagine how to make a double (or more) circle skirt.  Does anyone
know where to get such a pattern or how to describe how to do it without
a pattern.  Also, what are the best materials?  I figure it has to be 
something very light, with a lot of drape to come out the way I want.  Also
what about putting some kind of light weighting at the hem (horsehair braid?)
to give the skirt better flow?  I've never made something with weighting
at the hem so I'm not sure I have the right idea of what it is for.

----- Now, the responses -----
--- From winslett@cs.uiuc.edu Mon Aug 19 15:47:23 1991 ---

i have a long circle skirt from the 40s (was my mom's) that i wear
dancing.  i guess it would be possible to have a double circle skirt,
but boy would *that* be big.

anyway, what they did on mom's was that near the bottom there is
material added in a non-vertical way... sort of on the diagonal.
It's really strange to look at what they did, yet you don't notice
it at all when i wear it.  perhaps I should explain that i'm very
tall, and the skirt is very long, so an ordinary 1/2 width of
material, or maybe even a full width, would not have been wide
enough across the bottom.  yes, now that i think about it, the
only vertical seams are at the sides, so the front and back
sections would have been a full width of material.

as for the weighting, you can make it except for the hem, try
it on, do a few twirls, and then decide what sort of weighting
you need.  mom's skirt is lightweight cotton rather than chiffon,
so i don't know how a long full circle of chiffon would float.


if i were making a double circle skirt, then compared to mom's
skirt, there'd be twice as many panels, each as wide at the bottom
as one of her panels; and each half as wide at the top as one
of her panels.  I should have mentioned that the waist of her
skirt is not gathered, and there's a side zipper to get into it.

--msw

--- From njm@shelley.aa.ox.com Mon Aug 19 15:53:23 1991 ---

It's kind of hard to describe patterns without pictures, but let me try to
explain how to make an extremely wide skirt.

Start with a basic circle skirt.  Imagine you want a 30" waist, and lets
ignore seam allowances.  If you make the skirt from four panels, you have
four wedges of material, each 7.5" across the top.  Now suppose you cut
another four panels.  If you sew them all together, you get a huge skirt
with a 60" waist.  You can gather that to 30", but I don't think you'll get
the effect you're looking for.

Instead, go back to the eight wedges of fabric.  Trim each piece so that
the top is 3.25" across, but the bottom is as wide as when you started (cut
an equal amount off each side.  If you take it all off one side the pieces
will be all different lengths).  You're back to having a 30" waist but now
the bottom is twice as wide as for the single circle skirt.

You might have to play with how you take the fabric off the sides.  It
might turn out that a straight line doesn't give the most flattering shape.

Did that make sense?


As for material, something soft is in order.  Depending on how much you
want to spend, silk crepe or a silk satin would be gorgeous.  There are
lots of soft polyesters that aren't nearly as expensive, though.

I don't know about weighting the bottom.  I'd put the skirt together and
see how it works before worrying about the hem.

	Nancy

--- From flash@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 19 17:49:56 1991 ---

	My partner just had a gown made for her with two circles.  The
rough idea, as I understand it (insert a standard disclaimer here), is
to fold the fabric into quarters, measure the "drop" from your waist to
your hips and cut out a circle in the middle of the fabric with that
radius.  (Do this with both circles) Then cut from the waist to the hem
of the fabric and attach them along that cut.  Let the fabric hang from
the waist for a couple of days before you hem it with a "surger."  (It
will stretch differently along different biases.  The surger stitch
should be enough to weight the end but feathers do a really nice job.
Heavier fabrics flow better but they get hot.  The weight just helps it
stay out while you spin.  Bodices that seem to work the best are made
from lycra or spandex to breathe when you do.  Make sure you attach
dance pants to the bottom or it will ride up.  Some people make their
bodices from swimsuits.  Good luck.
				Barak Yedidia


--- From adr@soda.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 19 20:05:34 1991 ---

I have never made a double circle skirt before, but it should be just as
easy as making a single.  (I assume by "double" you mean that the bottom of
the skirt is 720 degrees and not that it is two layers that are each a 360
degree circle.)


This is what *I* would do:

Proceed the same way as you would for a normal circle skirt.  Instead of
making four 1/4 circles that are 1/4 your waist measurement at the top, you
can make eight 1/4 circles that are 1/8 your waist measurement at the top.
Optionally, you can leave the eight 1/4 circles with more than 1/8 of your
waist measurement at the top and gather it slightly.

You may want to consider trying out your pattern in a cheap fabric
(remnants?), to iron out all the kinks (sorry about the pun) before you use
the good (expensive?) stuff.

As for horsehair or wighted hem:

Horsehair is used more as a stiffener to hold the hem of the skirt out (away
from the legs) than as a weight.  If your skirt is more than one layer
(organza over taffeta, for example) the horsehair may separate the layers
too much.  For most fabrics that are not weighted enough, I would recommend
a deep hem 2-4" rather than weights.  I know that wide hems are more
difficult on bias cut skirts, but they look really good and usually add
quite a bit of weight.  If you run gather stitching at the bottom edge of
the fabric and ease the extra hem fabric together around the curve, or make
little pleats as necessary, you can get a nice finish.  Another good way to
get more weight and stiffness in heavier fabrics is to use fusable
interfacing in the hem.  You fuse the interfacing to the turned up part of
the hem from the fold at the bottom of the skirt to the fold at the top of
the hem (where the hem gets stitched).  The hem you choose really depends on
the weight of fabric that you are using.

Most of Ginger Rogers' gowns seem to be made from very light weight fabrics,
usually organza or similarly weighted crisp fabrics, are are weighed down
with trims, sequins, fur, feathers,etc. at the hem (in addition or instead
of any weighting in the hem). They also seem to have petticoats underneath
for body and fullness.  Some appear to be made of several layers of
tulle/net (I'm not sure which is tulle and which is net, but I am refering
to the one with the smaller holes that is also used for bridal veils).

Well, these are my ideas.  I hope they are helpful.  If you like them and
would like me to give you some more ideas, let me know, becasue this sounds
like a really *fun* project, and my comments could be better if I had more
information about what you had in mind.  I don't have any experience with
ballroom dancing costumes, but I do sew quite a bit, and I have done theatre
costuming.

Additionally, you could post your request for information to alt.sewing
I'm sure people there could also help you.

Sorry for such a long post.  Good luck,

Adriana
adr@soda.berkeley.edu

--- From kdoherty@axion.bt.co.uk Tue Aug 20 02:30:22 1991 ---

Well, I'm not sure I'm about to be of much help but I am about to embark
on making a ballroom dress for competitions!  I can tell you what I'm
going to do and what seems to be the norm around the Uk for dresses.
My skirt will be made from pleated satin.  I'm getting my fabric mail
order from a specialist supplier who offer ready pleated half circles 
in various fabrics, colours and lengths.  I asked around and the norm
appears to be 3 half circles of the pleated fabric for an outer skirt.
The fact that it's pleated means presumably that it can be more easily
adjusted to fit the waist by just folding the pleats as necessary.
(Hmm, not very well explained I think!)  I've gone for satin which seems
to be the most common because it has a lovely soft drape and swish 
but still has a bit weight.  The lining of the skirt will also have to
be about one full circle.  I have a pattern which I think I'll be using for
the skirt lining where the lining comes so far down then there is a 
gathered tier at the bottom to give more fullness.  The lining will
take about 7.5 metres at 150cm wide (if I remember correctly).
I'm not entirely sure but I reckon that the 3 pleated skirt sections when 
stictched together will give a circumference around the hem of 6 metres or
more.  Maybe what you heard about two full circle skirts is one circle
for the outer and one for the lining.  In fact, some people use more than
one lining, hence the number of skirts increases.  I think one should
be enough with the satin that I have chosen.  

Weighting of the skirt is more of a problem.  The norm for competition dresses
is for feathers all around the bottom.  That's very expensive because of
the quantity required so I'm going to cheat.  Instead I'm going to apply a
kind of ruffle in the place of feathers to give a bit more weight and to
finish it off more.  The way I'll do the ruffle is to  make a strip of
fabric twice the circumference of the dress, about 10-15cm wide (after it's
hemmed) and gather it at the mid point. Then stitch it on at the gathering point
so that the lower half of the ruffle lies even with the hem of the dress and 
the upper half lies above.  What should hold it above will be `fishing line'.
The hem of the dress and the hems of the ruffles will all have fishing line
through them.  This is like a narrow nylon line which gives the edge of the
dress lots of curl (and the ruffles) and helps to finish the hems off more and 
also to give the look of it being weighted down more.  I've seen one dress
whre the ruffle was done in satin of a contrasting colour but I'm going to try 
it with chiffon because it'll match the ruffles that I'm going to create
atound the neck line and shoulders.  However, there is the possibility that
this might be too soft and I'll have to order more satin instead!  I'll
live and learn.

I've decided to make my own stuff because  it'll cost me 3-4 times more to 
have it done with a proper dressmaker.  Basically I'm making a bit of it
up as I go along and I'm going to use bits of two other patterns.  One of
the patterns will give me the basis of the bodice except that I'll cut it
much lower at the back.  The ruffles and outer skirt I'll pretty much
make up.  The inner skirt lining I'll probably use a pattern that was
obtatined from Nevtex Fabrics in Nottingham, England.  The rest of the
pattern is dated for current styles of dresses, but the lining won't 
change much I don't think so I should be able to use if for that.

The company that I'm getting all my fabric from do mail order world
wide.  If you're interested in eg ready pleated fabrics in skirt lengths,
then I can look out the address for you, just mail me back.  They're
called ChrisAnne, somewhere in the county of Surrey, England.  I can
also get the Nevtex address if you would like a pattern but I suspect you 
could probably get hold of one nearer home.  If you hear of proper
patterns I'd love to know.  I may be being rather more adventurous than
my standard of dressmaking merits!  Good luck.

Katrina Doherty
kdoherty@axion.bt.co.uk

--- From @po2.andrew.cmu.edu:cp17+@andrew.cmu.edu Tue Aug 20 07:00:26 1991 ---
From: Catherine Peters <cp17+@andrew.cmu.edu>

Hi Brenda,

I recently had my first ballgown made and I can tell you a few things.

I am an experienced seamstress and I first considered making my own
gown, but I ended up having a local (Pittsburgh) costume maker do it
because I didn't have time and the price was right.  Now I am glad I had
her do it because she has made many ballgowns and she knows all the
little tricks.  I learned alot from her.  Here are some of the things I
learned:

The skirt can be one or two full circles.  I chose to have a one circle
skirt because I wanted it to look less wide (and because it is half the
price for material).  I think it is no less beautiful.  I have since
found that my instructor (who is a top professional competitor) has all
her skirts made in one circle.  It's a matter of preference.  If you
choose to have a two circle skirt, the construction is easy.  Just make
two single circles and leave one seam open, then sew them into each
other.  Before cutting the gores, make sure you make the top (waist)
much smaller.  In fact you might want to start by making the gores
shaped like pieces of pie, i.e. with no opening for a waist.  After the
seams are sewn together, then measure your waistline (subtract about 2
inches because the fabrice will stretch) and cut out the top.  If this
doesn't make sense, let me know and I could send you a sketch in real
mail.

Now here is a very important trick I learned: whether you go with a
single or double circle skirt, make sure to hang it up for at least a
day after sewing the side seams and before hemming.  The skirt will
stretch after hanging and the parts on the bias will stretch alot more
than the parts on the straight grain.  After it has hung, put it on (pin
it to your shirt or pants if the bodice is not yet made) and have
someone cut it evenly from the floor using a ruler.  

Most ballgowns are made with two or three layers: an underlayer of
lining (eg. "posh" (a JoAnn Fabrics trademark) polyester), and one or
two layers of chiffon.    Chiffon is ideal for ballgown skirts because
it is light and soft, so it will move.  I don't recommend putting
horsehair braid because you might end up looking like a bell.  The best
hem is a rolled hem, if your machine has an attachment for this.  It's
neat and gives just enough body to the edge to keep it from going limp.  

If you keep up with the latest in ballroom fashion, you may have noticed
lots of feathers.  Most ballgowns have feathers (ostrich) around the
bottom of the skirt, and often around the shoulders as well.  I went
without feathers because I couldn't afford the extra $100.  Maybe
someday.

Now about the bodice.  The style these days is off-the-shoulder, but
since these gowns are used as costumes in competitions most people
attach skin-colored elastic straps to help hold it up.  You can make
white elastic skin-colored by using creme facial makeup.  If you have
sleeves, you might want to consider having them be a separate piece so
that there will be no constriction when you raise your arms.  My sleeves
are not attached to the dress.  I slide them on and they stay up because
there is elastic at the top.

Just for reference: the materials for my dress cost just under $200. 
$100 was for 1 yd of sequin stretch fabric for the bodice, and the
remainder was for 10 yards of chiffon and 5 yards of lining and all the
other misc stuff.  This seamstress charged me only $100 for labor, which
made it a very good deal.  If you make it yourself you could do this for
about $150.  The cost really climbs when you add sequins, feathers, etc.
 

If you have any questions once you get started, let me know.  I'd be
happy to help.  Good luck!

Catherine Peters
cp17@andrew.cmu.edu

--- From kseo@BBN.COM Tue Aug 20 07:59:16 1991 ---

I can't contribute any information specific to ballroom dancing.  However,
I thought about the skirts I own which have greater than one-circle's worth
of material and they fall into three basic categories:
	a) the ones that use panels or gores that go from the waist to hem
	   (narrow at the waist, flaring out to a much greater width at
	   the bottom).  The shape of the panels varied from skirt to
	   skirt.  Most were triangular, but in one case, the panels
	   have a more complicated shape that allows them to interlock
	   with the adjoining panels.
	b) the ones with gathers at the waist, e.g., with sunburst pleats.
	c) the ones with triangular insets about halfway down the skirt
	   so that they add fullness to the lower half of the skirt.
	   This looks much like (a), but you end up with fewer seams
	   over the the hips

(a) and (c) are more flattering than (b) since they have less material
up near the waist and hips.  If you look at Ginger Rogers' dresses,
you'll notice that they're cut on the bias over her waist and hips for
maximum drape.  Also, the fullness and flare is all in the bottom half
of the skirt.  

[reqeust for information I receive deleted]
Thanks,
Karen


--- From lund@esrad.enet.dec.com Tue Aug 20 08:51:47 1991 ---

i've never made a double circle skirt, but i've
made patterns for some of my own designs, so perhaps
I can help a bit.

I'd make 4 semi-circles (just to save fabric!) and then
sew them together, side-by-side.
then gather the edges onto a straight waistband.  I think
Ginger's dresses often had curved waistbands and skirts
that were snug over her hips; I can vaguely imagine how
that could be done, but I'd need several hours with a
pencil and scissors and plenty of paper to figure out the
curves of that.

The key to not making a square-dance-type skirt is to
put the waistline at the very center of the skirt, to
minimize the gathers, I think.

That is, measure your waist, divide by 4, and then 
make that about = to the semi-circle you cut out of the
center of each semi-circle skirt piece.  For example,
say you have a 32" waist, you want each skirt piect
to contribute about 8" to your waistline, so I'd cut
out the waist-hole with a diameter of about 3", giving
just a little bit to gather.

The most challenging thing I think of a circle skirt is
finding someone with the patience to help you hang it.
Because you are not a cylinder, you cannot just make
the skirt a geometric shape, or it will hang up around
your hips and look like hell.  Finding someoen with the
patience to measure and pin around 30 or 40 feet of 
hemline while you slowly turn around sounds like a real
feat.

I made a full circle dance dress out of some beautiful
heavy rayon, but it was so stretchy around the bias that
I couldn't use a machine at all.  I basted, attached the
hem tape and hemmed it all by hand, (3 times around!) and
it had a 27' hemline.  The only reason I ever finished
was because I was home with bronchitis for a week!

good luck!
Jennifer

--- From @ZERMATT.LCS.MIT.EDU:death@LCS.MIT.EDU Tue Aug 20 14:57:12 1991 ---
From: Mark A. Sheldon <death@LCS.MIT.EDU>

The best thing to do is to go to a big competition and find the
vendors.  There'll be someone selling dresses, and you can inspect
several examples and talk to the folks.  My partner's dresses have
been made by a friend who was a fellow amateur competitor who
turned professional two years ago.  The bodice should be no
problem for you technically (from what I've gathered).  Most are
very simple, close fitting bodices that are covered with
decarations.  The decarations take all the time, as gluing on
thousands of rhinestones, beads, and whatnot takes forever.  The
dresses normally have several layers of skirts, one of which has a
wire in the hem with a loose coil, this gives the heavier outer
skirt more volume.  Outer skirts today are normally weighted with
feather boas, either turkey feathers for shallow of pocketbook or
ostrich feathers for the more elegant and financially secure.  My
partner's first dress had turkey feathers, the new one has ostrich
feathers.  I have to say that it really does make a difference.
Sleeves are an option:  watch a competition and see what's in.  My
partner's dress has what we call wings.  It took me a while to get
used to positioning my right hand on her without getting tangled.

Note:  Many people imagine that ballgowns are floor length.  This
is simply not true for competition gowns.  Most end somewhat past
the knee (check out competitors between rounds).  Otherwise you
catch your heel in the feather boas or inner skirts, especially in
tango (when you are lower in your knees and may do flicks with
your foot) and quickstep (when you do kicks, coup\'es, etc.).  The
enourmous volume of the skirts and the flow of the heavy material
with weighted hem give the impression that the skirts are longer
than they are.

I urge you to go for it!  It seems that if you are proficient at
this sort of thing, a ballgown is not much more difficult (even if
it is more time consuming) than other types of dresses.  Certainly
you can do better than the typical $1000--$3000 for a new
ballgown.  You can look at used ones too.

Good luck!

-Mark

--- From tan@infonode.ingr.com Thu Aug 22 06:39:23 1991 ---

[Deleted copy of my posting to alt.sewing]

Hello!, this maybe of interest to you. I just finished my wedding gown.
it consist of 2 full circle skirt of satin (mind you! it is very heavy)
and another full circle lining skirt underneath. I bought the whole 21
yrds roll of El dorado Satin, it is cheap 2.95$/yrds at Walmart. So can
afford messing up. fortunately, I did not mess up or waste any.

the outermost later is like a drapery style, a bit shorter than the
primary layer. the outermost layer is about t-lenght and pulled-up
in four-corners. the primary layer is just a full circle. I first attached
the lining, the primary and the outer layer toghether before shrinking
the waist line to my size.

Well, afterwards, I wear it, it fits great, but I look like an egg plant.
because it is so heavy, nothing stand up. 

I was the one then who posted for suggestion to make my skirt like an
umbrella. 
received several valuable ideas from the netters, the one idea I pick
was to buy about 20 yrds of metal strip band and make a hoop skirt,
the means stiching the band, several circle on a lining skirt, starting
from the hips down.
Now, it works great.
I guess you will have better success if you follow the same procedure,
except use a lighter fabric for your skirt. Satin is too heavy.

My sister has a botique for wedding dress back home. She used to sew
satin ribbon on the edge of skirt made out of net material (the one that
brides put on their hat, those thin net), it will make the net curl up
and down like a fairy. very pretty , but you will not be able to wash
the clothes, because the satin ribbon will not be stiffed anymore once wet.

nylon ribbon works even better, because it is even stiffer.

good luck.
Bell


--- From Yvonne.Wilson@Corp.Sun.COM Thu Aug 22 09:19:52 1991 ---

  I don't know about double circle skirts but Threads magazine had an
idea that may help you when you find out.  They suggested making
small versions of garments for dolls (they had 1/2 size dolls but
I would go smaller) to test out how designs look without having to
use yards of fabric.  Of course a certain weight of fabric will seem
heavier or stiffer in a small scale model, but it may not be a
significant amount.  When you get instructions for a double circle
skirt, you could try it out on a small scale requiring only a little
fabric.

Happy dancing!
Yvonne (yvonne.wilson@Corp.Sun.COM)

>From roder Tue Aug 27 20:09:40 1991
Received: from coil.caltech.edu (coil.cco.caltech.edu) by cobalt.cco.caltech.edu (4.1/1.34.1)
	id AA13811; Tue, 27 Aug 91 20:09:39 PDT
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 20:09:39 PDT
From: roder (Brenda J. Roder)
Message-Id: <9108280309.AA13811@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu>
Received: by coil.caltech.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA00161; Tue, 27 Aug 91 20:09:38 PDT
To: roder
Subject: fancy ballroom dress
Status: O

----- This is a recent posting in alt.sewing -----
--- From: cowpatti@netcom.COM (Patricia Mae Anthony) ---

In article <50870005@hpcupt3.cup.hp.com> kc@hpcupt3.cup.hp.com (Kathy Clapp) writes:
In message <I have no idea> roder@cobalt.caltech.edu (Brenda J. Roder)
writes:
[this refers to my posting that I decided to switch to single from double
circle skirt]
>>to test out the concept.  Mainly because I realized just how much material
>>would be around my hips and didn't want to waste upwards of 20 yards of
>>material on something I would end up hating.  I also bought a rolled hem
>>-- Brenda (roder@cobalt.caltech.edu)
>
>Brenda,
>Why does there *have* to be lots of material around your hips?  It would be
>a little more complicated, but why not have the fabric fairly fitted over
>your hips, then flare out after *that*?  This would be a good idea even for 
>the single circle even.  Especially if you're (like me :-)) concerned about
>extra anything around the hips...
>Hope this helps!
>Kathy

This is a very good suggestion, and very easy to draft.  If you take the
top of a straight skirt (you might want to use one of the basic
sloper-type patterns that are available) and put it on the bias, then
draw a line across just at the hip line and slice there.  Then slice the
bottom part of the skirt into equal sections and spread it apart, even
as far as to make a circle skirt if you want.

You can either make a circle and attach it where the line is at the hip
line, putting the top part on the bias, or just spread the pattern below
the hipline, and put it on the straight OR the bias, depending on how
much you spread it.  For example, if you spread it to a quarter circle,
then you may want to put the whole thing on the bias so that the seam
lines are not running on the straight of grain.

Remember when you cut seam lines on the bias:  Always allow at least
1-1/2" (if not more) for a seam allowance so that the fabric doesn't
"spread" too much as you cut it, and through handling.  You can always
trim away the extra seam allowance, but once the fabric spreads on the
bias from cutting and/or handling, it's awfully hard to deal with it
sometimes.

CowPatti

----- end of replies -----

-- Brenda (roder@cobalt.caltech.edu)

----------------------------- End of File ------------------------------

- Stepan