HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: RACISM
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:03:21 GMT

Susan Chacko (susanc@helix.nih.gov) writes:

> 
>The 'first wave' of immigrants, who were the professionals, were also
>much more distributed among the population. They tend(ed) to live in
>suburban neighbourhoods and didn't form geographical or work groups.
>(social groups, perhaps). But restaurant owners and shopkeepers tend
>to group together in 'Indian' areas, and thus they're a much more
>visible minority and easier to target in racial incidents. I've no
>hard statistics to show whether this was a factor, but it seems
>intuitively that it might be.
> 
>Susan.

This brings up many interesting points. While the first wave of 
'professional' immigrants may have been geographically distributed, 
they were clearly very highly localized occupationally. Since so many 
of them were doctors and nurses, forming about 10 percent of the Indian 
immigrant population, and a similar percentage of the American work force 
in those occupations, they became subject to all kinds of discriminatory 
practices, as they still are. Having first accepted appointments in 
inner-city hospitals, as they sought to move into independent practice, 
they were first forced to cater to inner-city populations on Medicare,
and if they sought to move out of the state they were originally licensed
in, they faced other hurdles. ( Of course, we all know that eventually 
the most successful among them came to have multi-million dollar cardiology 
practices in Orange County, Calif.) 

I was actually quite surprized that the Indian community activist in 
New Jersey interviewed for the article, herself a gynecologist, did 
not bring any of this up. However, similar things happened to the engineers 
among the immigrants too - they were always the last to be hired and 
first to be fired in any company, almost always on lower wages. Again, 
the most successful amongst them eventually did very well, either within 
the companies they joined, or in the ones some of them later set up. 

Throughout, the saga of the professional Indian immigrants seems to be 
one of success inspite of, not in the absence of discrimination. Thus it is
quite irritating to have people recall the 'good old days' when there 
was no discrimination. They never existed ! Remembering, of course, that 
increased visibility of any group can lead to a more in-your-face kind 
of racism, as opposed to the kinder, gentler and more subtle version.

--Satyen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu (Sudarshan S. Chawathe)  
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Originator: chaw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
X-Disclaimer: Blame it on the cat.
Reply-To: Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu (Sudarshan S. Chawathe)  
Fcc: log/outgoing
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:55:04 GMT

moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:

[concern about discrimination against men deleted to save space]

>At the moment, men are not allowed to read or post to the list...nor
>are we supposed to crosspost to newsgroups, although that's up for
>discussion.  What do you think?   This feels to me like
>discrimination, despite the practical reasons for doing so.  (Those
>being:  1)  women who are shy and afraid to speak around men, 2) men
>who are loud and take over the conversation, 3) the focus of the group
>turning away from women's issues and becoming another s.c.i., 4)
>providing a safe space for women to discuss personal lives without
>fears of their husband's friends hearing about it, or possible their
>husbands, etc....)

Since the list is moderated, I think reasons (2) or (3) above needn't
bother one.  That leaves (1) and (4), which are quite related.  I think
they certainly are valid reasons.  It is all fine and dandy to say "Oh,
why should women be shy?", but given that some are, and given that one
does wish to hear from them, I think it isn't so strange that this is a
`women-only' mailing list.

> - Amirthi (who gets a very uneasy feeling at *any* form of exclusion
>or separatism)

I share your concerns; I'm all for unisex shower rooms! :-)

-Chaw

_________________________________________________________________________
Chaw@cs.Stanford.edu                                         tat tvam asi

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: padma@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Padma Varanasi)
Subject: distinguishing between SE Asians
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:38:50 GMT


> In article <1992Nov05.194926.132897@watson.ibm.com>, saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer) writes:

> A question for others: can you distinguish between different types of South
> Asians?  

Yes, I can usually distinguish between different type of S. Asians.  The
skin colour, cheek bones and the shape of the eyes, nose are some of the
clues!  I hope this doesn't sound racist or offend anybody!




--
Ms. Padma Varanasi 
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena, CA  91109
Work: 818/393-0754 [NASA/JPL]
From: rangana@cs.uwindsor.ca (RANGANATHAN A            )
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Date: 17 Nov 1992 15:31:11 GMT
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <1992Nov17.041131.23873@risky.ecs.umass.edu> rajain@sml3.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain) writes:
>|> 3. If input from men is what is needed, a forum such as SCI would
>|> suffice.
>
>	Please think again because soon SCI is to be changed to SCIMNW......
>	soc.culture.indian.men.no.women !!!

An eye for an eye, eh ??
Feel on top of the world don't ya ??

>	mailing list !). This is a nice way of showing how insecure Indian
>	women are !!! (and it's a shame --- for Indian men and women).
			   ^^^^^^^^^^^^

It truly is.

>	Great! Let's start a group soc.culture.indian.men.on.women.issues,
>	and while we are in the process of setting up such a group, why not
>	create soc.culture.indian.women.on.men.issues and soc.culture.indian.
>	men.who.are.not.pigs.as.defined.by.indian.women ????

Thanks for the idea.
Truly you guys are a great help, informing us to focus our attention on the
very important issues of "Don't forget the Indian male".
Rajat, I really appreciate your concern and devotion to the *women issues*.

>	[Uma's loong but interesting (to women, mainly) personal thoughts 
>	  deleted ]

Excuse me, but I believe she mentioned that they were not her personal thoughts

>	Sure, I respect them. But what about the preferences of the men?
>	Or do you women care about *your* preferences only ? Get real !!!

I think SCI is catering to the preferences of the MEN quite successfully.
If you are really concerned about the preferences of both men and women, 
follow your advice doode and *Get Real !!!*
 
Express your concerns on SCI  and I am sure you will get a lot of replies that 
may
alleviate the suffering that you undergo as an unloved and ignored Indian male.
;-(

>	To me it *does* sound like a cult....secret or not-secret !!!

You have every right to make up your mind.

>	[loooong post deleted]

Pity. You should have read THIS one carefully.

>PS: But how could I resist including my .signature when I saved so much 
>    bandwidth above :) So here it is !!!

Makes you feel like a COOL DOODE eh ?

Arathi.


PS : If my opinions are not applicable to you, STAY COOL.

 
-- 
See simplicity in the complicated
	- Lao Tzu

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: RACISM
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:22:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.163552.13364@cirrus.com> venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
>
>now, given that they are a minority, how do you suggest the non-whites
>participate in combating racism? i can think of only one possible way:
>stand up and fight it (which is being done). but, besides fighting racism by
>refusing to accept it, making any incident public and well-known, i can't
>think of any other way in which a person belonging to a minority can prevent
>racism against that minority.  

Spread understanding.
Talk about your culture.
Mix with people of many different racial backgrounds.
Do your best to make sure that you *never* discriminate yourself (and
that includes racial humor, because it can and will be thrown back in
your face)
Teach by example that you are an individual, not solely an Asian, a
christian, a whatever....try to make others understand that people are
all individuals, and generalizing on the basis of race is
unproductive.


 - Amirthi
-- 
More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads.  One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness.  The other to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
						 - Woody Allen
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: shiv@hiv.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad)
Subject: Re: Books and the Indian-American experience
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:55:30 GMT

In article <22NOV199213590446@rosie.uh.edu> fina2f@rosie.uh.edu (Venkatesh, P. C.) writes:
>----
>Posted for Susan Chacko. Send mail to susanc@helix.nih.gov
>----
>
>sides of the generation gap. They're critical, but critical as
>insiders, which is distinct from the sort of criticism that
>V.S. Naipaul offers. 
>
>Susan.

I actually like Naipaul's writing, maybe because I can identify with it since
I was born in Trinidad.  I really enjoy his fiction, especially the humorous
ones (Miguel Street, The Suffrage of Elvira) more than the sometimes stream-
of-consciousness ramblings of his mind as he's walking through a field
noting the similarities of the local flora to the flora he knew as a child on
a small Caribbean island and even when there isn't any similarity he tells you so.  That run-on sentence was a snide reference to some of his ramblings, for 
those who aren't aware of it.

As far as what this has to do with Indo-American immigrants in the US, well,
it's irrelevant, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Shiv Prasad
shiv@lenti.med.umn.edu
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: RACISM
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:35:52 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <1992Nov19.010843.6830@wuecl.wustl.edu> mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod
Shah) writes: 
[a post which states that responsibility for racism lies on both the whites
and non-whites]

if i get you correctly, you are saying that the responsibility to combat
racism lies both with the whites and non-whites. okay. given that, you say
that racism will not be eradicated with just a white guilt-trip, but require
non-white participation. okay. 

now, given that they are a minority, how do you suggest the non-whites
participate in combating racism? i can think of only one possible way:
stand up and fight it (which is being done). but, besides fighting racism by
refusing to accept it, making any incident public and well-known, i can't
think of any other way in which a person belonging to a minority can prevent
racism against that minority.  

and that is already being done.

-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737 
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat,
and wrong.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:41:06 GMT
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian`

In article <1992Nov16.224135.23117@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian) writes:
> 
> 4. This is a private space for women to validate their experiences

But it uses public resources - computer or data network used for it
is in public domain. Men, not just women only, pay for these public
resources through their taxes.

> and perceptions and the primary focus is and must be on the women, 
> not on how these issues affect men or the society. 
                                           ^^^^^^^^^
At least women ought to think about the society.

> forum can and should meet a need that is not met otherwise -- it
> should be a forum for women to talk about how various issues affect
> them, without having to analyze how it affects others.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This indicates insensitivity towards others (men, in this case)
How can women then hope to expect sensitivity from men, if they themselves
display a sense of insensitivity towards others ?

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: MISUNDERSTANDING
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:09:59 GMT

In article <19NOV199209500797@rosie.uh.edu> susanc@helix.nih.gov (Susan Chacko) 
writes :

>
>In article <6996@dove.nist.gov>, hira@cme.nist.gov writes...
>> 
>> 
>>Is there a right or wrong way to spell it, or just one that is commonly
>>used?
>> 
>
>The way *he* spells it is the right way, surely?
>Seems like it's only common courtesy to spell and pronounce people's
>names the way they want it, not the way we think they should be
>spelt or pronounced. 
>(I had a friend in grad school called Ng, and I tied my vocal cords
>up in knots trying to say it correctly, but she would have been
>offended, and rightly so, if I told her 'Sorry, I can't handle 
>your name so I'm going to call you Ing or Ung or Eng'...)
>
>Susan.

I think the Western tongue has difficulty with names which are spelt with 
an 'h' after certain consonants occuring in the middle of the name. 'Gandhi' 
is one of them. They would much rather it were 'Ghandy'. Either because 
of that, or coincidentally, some people actually spell the name like that. 
Another South Asian proper noun I can think 
of they have particular trouble with is 'Rekha'. They would have no trouble  
pronouncing it correctly if it were spelt 'Reha' - for example, the BBC always 
pronounced 'Rehman' (as in Mujibur Rehman, the first Prime Minister of 
Bangladesh) as 'Rakh-man'.( They have no trouble with a name like 'Zachary' 
or 'Zachariah', for some reason, so that the Indian rumored to be closest 
to Bush is called Zachariah Zachariah ! :-)) Bush just calls him 'Zach'. 


--Satyen

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra)
Subject: Re: what up
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:30:33 GMT

In article <92321.101657ICASV@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Ashish Vaidya
<ICASV@ASUACAD.BITNET> wrote:
> 
>      Right now all I'm asking is that if anyone knows a gujarati girl or guy,
> who are brahmin, can you please ask them to write me.  I want to talk to
> others like me.  I'm cool headed now and all i want to do is talk.  From 
> anyone.

Ashish, I've had the same question about you since your first post, and
I've asked it twice and I'm asking it again, because I really want to know:
 What does it mean to you to identify yourself as a brahmin?  			
	
Please answer this posting, so I won't turn into a broken record.

       /-                   Devjani Mishra, Yale University
      /   /                 misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
  ___/  _  _   _  ___       diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu    
 /  /   /   | /  /  /
/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_       "What's right is what's left when everything
                            else is wrong." - Robin Williams
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Excluding men
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:53:51 GMT
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian

In article <1992Nov16.224135.23117@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, usubrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Uma M Subramanian) writes:
> 
> 5. There are other arenas for men to discuss woen's issues, with
> women's inpu, whereas there is none for women to just network
> with other women, be as outspoken as they'd like to be without being
> watched. In this sense this is really not excluding men in the way
> women are excluded from many spaces. The analogy the poster drew
> was a support group for Black Engineering Students at a prestigious public
> univ. which excludes whites and others. Is this exclusion or
> not? Should the black students feel obliged to include others?

If they are not using public resources, they are not obliged to include 
others, however they will add weight and substance to their complaints of 
exclusion and discrimination by not practising exclusionary or 
discriminatory policies themselves.  In other words, they will be more 
effective by keeping the support group open.
There are many whites who are genuinely interested in supporting black 
causes. Likewise there are many men who are genuinely interested
in supporting women on even womens issues. By excluding such people
who are part of the 'powerful group', the `underpowered group' is
reducing its effectiveness and missing on an opportunity to make
inroads in the 'powerful group'.

Alok
From: kanga.caltech.edu!sathi (Narayana Sateesh Pillai)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Re: ....... most beautiful actresses .......
Date: 22 Nov 1992 18:31:50 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.caltech.edu
Originator: sathi@kanga

In article <1992Nov21.212421.24556@risky.ecs.umass.edu>  
rajain@bones.ecs.umass.edu (Rajat Jain) writes:

> 	Don't know the first two, but yes! Sreedevi !! (yumm! yumm! yumm!)
> 	:-)
	
	This is a very good example of what I had posted in "Reply
to comments" (or was it a reply to that?). Here we have a male hungry
for a female. Obviously the male views the female as a sexual object!!
I say this is natural. Can't do anything about it!
	Sreedevi's movies (there is one particularly notorious one) do not
help to remove the stigma.

	And as far as beauty goes, you really can't compare females that
way. I think Hema Malini is the best (when she was younger). People will 
disagree with me since she is old now. You can't compare the beauty 
because it is transient.  It's like keeping up with the latest versions
of softwares. Newer versions improve on older ones. They try to debug
the older ones to prevent hang-ups.

> 	rAjAt

TATA!
Sateesh
-- 
		| Sateesh Pillai			
		| 128-95, Caltech
who am I?	| Pasadena, CA 91125
		| (818) 564-1225
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: mchundat@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mathai Chundattu)
Subject: Sweet old ...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:17:37 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

chithRam:	pRasaadam
paatiyath:	Yesudas

	dEvee nin chiriyil
	kuLirO paaloLiyO	(2)
	anudinamanudinamennil niRayum
	aaraadhana madhuraagam nee
	dEvee nin chiriyil
	kuLirO paaloLiyO

	manassile thuLasi theertThakkarayil
	thapassirunnoren mOham
	nin divya noopura dhwaniyiluNaRnnu
	niRmmala raagaardra bhaavamaay theeRnnu

	dEvee nin chiriyil
	kuLirO paaloLiyO

	chithRavaRNNaankitha SreekOvilil nJaan
	nithya simhaasanam ninakkaay theertthu
	snEhOpaasanaa manthRavumOthee
	snEhamayee nJaan kaatthirippoo

	dEvee nin chiriyil 
	kuLiro paaloLiyO
	anudinamanudinamennil niRayum
	aaraadhana madhuraagam nee
	dEvee nin chiriyil
	kuLirO paaloLiyO

Enjoy.

Please point out the mistakes in transcription based on the latest
conventions.


Mathai
-- 


Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: mchundat@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mathai Chundattu)
Subject: Re: F.A.C.K [Rel 1.0]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:27:03 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Nov19.091700.5921@colorado.edu> paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Atharvan) writes:
>
>F.a.q. for Alt.Culture.Kerala.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Q (7)   What kind of articles can I expect to see on alt.culture.kerala ?
>A (7)   Articles that in the past have appeared include
>		(i) Discussions on the concept of Dowry.
>		(ii) Feminism in the indian and keralite context.
>		(iii) Nostalgic articles about kerala.
>		(iv) Recipes and hints for getting stuff for keralite cooking.
>		(v) Dating vs Arranged Marriages.
>		(vi) Articles about "ackers" -- the insider word for readers
>		     of alt.culture.kerala.
>		(vii) Lyrics from malayalam film songs etc.

One topic that ack lacks is news about kerala. I think that there are
ackers who have access to kerala news from newspapers, magazines etc. It
would be very nice of them if they could post a condensed account of the
main news to ack. And I am sure that such news will always be a hot
topic for replies on the net.

>
>

>
>Malayalam.
>----------
>[ --- -- --- ]

I think we can include the conventions we discussed in transcribing
malayalam in this section of faq. I hope that the conventions are in a
final form by now.

About the origin of malayalam language:

Malayalam is an eclectic mixture of a Dravidyan language and Sanskrit. I
think the Dravidyan language from which malayalam originated was a form 
of tamil. Earlier, this mixed language was called 'maNipRavaaLam'
meaning "pearls in sand". The Sanskrit words were considered to be
equivalent to the sand on a shore and the Dravidyan words the pearls.
There are several works written in this form of malayalam.
'uNNuneelisandESam' is an example. Any one out there with some more
info?

I think the recent trend among malayalam poets is to use the words from
both Sanskrit and Dravidyan language wherever they fit. I even feel
that if this trend grows malayalam will evolve into a language
connecting the two major language groups-the Sanskrit based north
indian languages and tamil based south indian languages.


>
>
>Part - IV: Acker List.
>
>{

My Bio-Data

(Autobiography under preparation!)


Name: 		Mathai Ittoop Chundattu
		Call me "Mathew" 
Date of Birth:	November 3, 1966
		Please send Birthday gifts.
Place of Birth:	Kottappady on the way from Perumbavoor to Kothamangalam
		in Ernakulam district.

Most of the education in and around Kottappady. B. Tech in Chemical Engg
from IIT Madras-batch 1989. Followed by two years of exile in ONGC Hazira,
Gujrat. Joined Univ of Oklahoma in Fall 1991 for MS in Chem Engg. Hopefully
I should be out by 93 December. Then... Huh..


Sincerely,

Mathai
-- 


Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: Martin A Laster <mlaster@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Write a short story
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:13:38 GMT


This is for all you creative story writers.  Let's see how well you can write.

If you could create a character for you to be for only one night at your
favorite night club, what would you think would happen that night at that
club.  Explain in detail the following;
 
	1) your character (i.e. employee, user)
	2) your night at the club (i.e. things you did, people you met)
  
Please keep it as realistic as possible, but also creative as possible.
This is for a study that I am doing for a night club owner who is planning
to open a new club.

Send all replies to this post to vlusane@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu

Have Fun !!!!!!!!!

Thank you
From: molly@uga.edu ()
Subject: MOVIES 
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:56:55 GMT

MR


Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala