HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Small autos for carry (was Re: I picked PPK/S over Mustang and 380 backup....)
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:04 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


After reading all the suggestions here, I am kinda disappointed. I was 
hoping to see a better alternative to thos presented on this thread. 
I too am currently looking for a small carry gun. My criteria are as 
follows:

1) Must be double action
2) Should be roughly thge same size as the guns previously mentioned 
   (Mustang, 380 backup, etc.)
3) MUST have a decent trigger pull.
4) I would prefer a 9mm parabellum, but it must be .380ACP minimum.

Number three is improtant here. I got all excited the other day about
an ad in the local paper that had these Hungarian PPK clones (made by
KBI) for $170. When I went to check them out, I found that the trigger
pull was TERRIBLE. My wife really had to struggle to fire double action.
I then tried a "real" Walther (the interarms version I think), and the
trigger pull on this gun STUNK TOO!!!

After reading the comments on PPK style triggers, I have given up on 
PPKs of any type. My question (yeah, I know I'm long winded) is ARE 
THERE ANY GUNS THAT MEET ALL THREE OF MY CRITERIA????????? 
(It would ALSO be a BIG PLUS if the gun was American made)

I am intending this as a carry gun mainly for my wife (but also for me
occasionally). I can make do just fine with my 1911A1 for carry for me 
(I don't mind a single action carry gun for me, but I THINK that the
wife 
should have a double action). I don't really WANT to spend a great deal
of $$, but I may consider it if necessary.....

Thanx for any and all responses.

Eddie

Don't tread on me..........................................I bite
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie Kieger                             efk00@cd.amdahl.com 
For Pay:      System Design Engineer     Amdahl Corp.
              Bringing you better mainframe computers
For Fun:      "River Rat"                SBU-XI SPECWARGRU1 (USNR)
              Bringing hellfire and brimstone to a river near you!
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Problem with the Berettas?
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: JUTS.47UH02OT2apz01
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In article <BxCyyq.BL2@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jstrait@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(strait jeffrey c) writes:
#anthrax@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:
#
### 
### Does Beretta has a lifetime warranty or such policy where if it
### happens, can I get it repaired or replaced?
#
##That's a good question.  I haven't had any problems with mine so I
#haven't had
##the need to look into that.  I can't recall if they have a lifetime
#warranty on
##their products or not.  The factory is, however, set up to deal with
#repair and
##replacments if something nasty were to happen.  
#
#Beretta has a limited one year warranty. They specifically warn
#against using +P and reloaded ammo.  So if you do that and crack
#the slide you are screwed.


Yeah, but it's your word against theirs.........

Eddie
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trajectory Question
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:31 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

#In article <9211091828.AA04413@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.go
#(daniel weed 283-4162) writes:

##Most certainly.  I agree slide friction is the smallest force.  Slide
[stuff deleted]

In article <27334@dog.ee.lbl.gov> bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov
(John Bercovitz) writes:

#I think perhaps a significant thing I left out is that there really may
#be quite a bit of friction between slide and rails.  It may be enough 
[stuff deleted]

Thinking about it again, I think you're right.  If the slide/frame friction
were significant, then the state of lubrication of the interface would make
a difference in the impact point.  Though I can't recall if there was a
difference when I tried high pressure lube, I don't think I've seen a differ-
ence using ordinary gun oils or Break Free.  So I doubt this friction is really
significant.  It could and should be tested in a tight gun.  I'll do that
next time I drag out the ol' Ransom rest.

John
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Grip Mounts - Other Side?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:48:20 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH


I just bought an Ultra Dot sight and an Aimtech grip mount for my Series 70
.45.  I'm very happy with both.  I do however, have a question.  Since the
right grip is replaced with the mount, I've had to go back to the left hand
grip that came with the gun years ago.

What do other people do regarding the left grip and the now bare front strap?
I've had nothing but Pachmayers on my Colt almost since I bought it.  I'm not
that happy with the bare front strap.  Does this bother hother people?  If so,
have you done anything about it?

Other than getting used to the new feel, I don't have many complaints.  Just
wondering what others do....

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:02 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Nov4.190835.13565@guinness.idbsu.edu> betz%gozer@uunet.UU.NET (Andrew Betz) writes:

#which brings up the obvious question - at what power level would a
#laser weapon change from essentially a scalpel to a destructive
#device?  

Um, a scalpel IS a destructive device depending on how it is used!

A scalpel used to remove a tumor is a life saver, one used to slice
the throat is lethal...

I'd suggest that, as a first approximation, the 'power content' of
the 'fuel' in a typical rifle cartridge is the power level needed
to drive a lethal laser...  I'd further suggest that, since 
fuel/oxidizer lasers exist, a shoulderable version could be built
that would not require excessive fuel weight.  (though I think
the present designs for SDI produce horrid waste gases ... HF ?)

#are such power levels currently portable?

My above *speculation* would suggest that they *can* be portable,
though I'd expect that if they *currently* are portable, only 
the Pentagon knows for sure ...

I vaguely remember a Pop Science article from a few years back 
that had a 'laser turret' on a tank body (this was reputed to 
be acutal pictures of real DOD development systems) that was
able to shoot down drone airplanes...  Does a tracked vehicle
count as 'portable'?

As I remember the fuel laser systems, there isn't much to 
prevent them from being scaled down to a shoulder weapon 
size.  The biggest problem, at least from a many years old
memory of a popular fluff article ;-), was the nasty gas.
(Hmmm, sounds like a Madonna song ... Oh Those Nasty Gases ...;-)

Oh, I should add:  All this is just speculation on my part with
no special or authoritative knowledge whatsoever.  Could be all wet...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:28 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 9 Nov 92 03:04:22 GMT, hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) said:

In article <1dk5giINN541@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A. Ray) writes:
#Is there a reason that Teflon-based lubricants (ie - Triflow) aren't  
#used for case sizing?

Henry>   One of the functions of the case when the round is fired is
Henry> to expand to the chamber walls and to "hold on" so the
Henry> backwards force on the bolt is decreased (somehat.)  If lube is
Henry> left on the case, then this friction is decreased and more
Henry> force than anticipated in the design of the firearm is exerted
Henry> on the bolt - which can stretch/break things.  Not only is it
Henry> necessary to remove the case lube, but you want a case lube
Henry> which can be rather easily removed.

A case lube which is really easily removed is Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
It is also very easy to apply, although must be done by hand.  It
comes in a little "snuff tin" and is a wax.  Touch your forefinger to
the wax (don't rub or gouge), and while moving your hand to the case,
wipe your forefinger against your thumb.  Rotate the case while wiping
thumb and forefinger from just below the shoulder to the base.  I can
lube 100 cases in about 5 minutes this way.  When you are done sizing,
just wipe off with a clean rag.  Other people have mentioned tumbling
as a way to remove the sizing lube, but some of us would rather not do
that.
-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 Assembly by NESARD
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:46 GMT
Organization: BGSU University Computer Services

In article <9211102101.AA115260@apix.psu.edu>, CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU
(Christopher L Frame) wrote:
# 
# 
# 
# 	Anyone know if NESARD sells their AR15 kit with the barrel
# attached and properly headspaced to the upper receiver?  If they don't
# how difficult is it to properly headspace the AR15 kit?
# 
# Christopher Frame CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU

Nesard does good work. I know him and his daughters. As for the headspace
question barrels aren't headspaced to recievers. Headspacing is done
between the   barrel and the bolt. 

Don Lambert
University Computer Services
Bowling Green State University
        	       	       	       	       	       	
INTERNET : dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: EAA Witness: Nevermind
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:30 GMT

Ok, ok...given the results of the election, I decided to hold off
on the Witness.

Southern Ohio Guns is selling AK Sporters (the one that looks like
a normal rifle ie. Valmet Hunter) for $169.95 and the scope and
mount for $39.95.

I've ordered mine, and would advise anyone in the USA wanting a
semi-auto, especially one of the military lookalikes, to get it
now.

Rob
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock (& lock)
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:57 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

#Actually, the recoil supprised me: It felt greater than that
#of my .357. I suspect this is a factor of the gun's light weight...


???   I've shot the Glock .45, 10mm, & compact .40s and 9mms.  I
was shocked at how mild the recoil was.   Ditto for my girlfriend.

[MODERATOR:  No, folks, we *won't* try to reparse that sentence
sentence structure ... ]
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Chinese TS45 air rifles (need info)
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:23 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


I have recently seen an add for a chinese TS45 air rifle for $49.95.
I am interested in the accuracy, power and durability of this rifle.
It is a spring piston, side cocking .177 caliber airgun with a claimed
velocity of 800 feet per second.  If this is correct, it seems this would
be perfect for getting rid of the squirrels that wish to live in my attic
to avoid the cold weather.  I previously used a Crossman (766? or something
like that - next step up from 760).  My room-mates broke it, and besides,
it took to long to pump it up 10 times, I would rather just be able to pump
cock it once and be done with it.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: rats@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: THERMOLD magazines
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:37 GMT

THERMOLD magazines... watch out for reloaded ammunition that has sharp
edges on the forward portion of the rim, as they can shave plastic off
the inside surface of the feed lips... using THERMOLD magazines in 
an Armalite AR-180, I encountered two feeding malfunctions... whether
they were due to the rifle per se or the magazines I really couldn't
say...
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Pistol Grip On A Shotgun ( was: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns? )
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:26:56 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1992Nov8.083354.24874@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
#In <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
#
#
##Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
##for defence?
#
#	There is at least one: the Benelli M1 Super 90.
#

I'm thinking to put this Super 90 on my wish list. ( Oh, Santa Santa.. :)
However, I have a few questions.

(1) Is pistol grip a good idea on a shotgun?
(2) How much recoil does it reduce as compared with a pump shotgun?
    Can you shoot it with one hand?
(3) I understand it has a 3" chamber. Can it accept reliably smaller
    size loads, such as 2 3/4" shells?

FYI, Ayoob prefers semi-auto shotguns over pump shotguns for combat/defense
purpose. In one of his articles, "Combat Shotguns, The Ultimate Alley 
Sweeper!", he mentioned that he coverted a New England police department in 
1982 from the Ithaca Model 37 pump gun to the Benelli M-1 Model 121
autoloader, and converted another department in 1990 from Remington 810
pump to the Benelli Super 90 autoloader. In both cases, the shooting
skill and confidence shot upward.

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese 7.62 x39 Rounds
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:26:54 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <9211071054.AA08335@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
##However, there is lots of lead core around at virtually the same price.
##In general, the brown lacquered case Norinco is lead core while the
##brass wash case has a steel core bullet. Some of the brass case is
#
#Are you sure about that?  There was a magazine article a few years
#ago (1988?) and they sectioned one of the bullets on the brown
#lacquered case, and it was steel core.
#
#Of course, that was 4 years ago, and Norinco could have changed it
#to a lead core by now.

Pretty much the case.  I sectioned a few rounds that I had in the garage
and found the following:

source           case                     jacket    core
unknown          br lacquer 71 over 88    copper    lead
E. German        steel 04 over 65         steel     steel
Yellow Norinco   brass color 311 over 91  steel     steel
China Sports     copper wash 71 over 91   steel     lead

The last 2 should be familiar to most folks that buy 7.62x39 - they're
the old Yellow box Norinco and the new Norinco import box labeled
"China Sports".  All cases were steel, the second was also steel
colored.  So far as I know none of the currently imported ammo in
7.62x39 is steel core ammo.  I wasn't aware that it was steel jacketed
still...

#Anyway, I found the lacquered cased ammo to be more accurate in my
#SKS.  Then again, it was 4 years ago....

It could be that the steel core ammo would be more accurate - the
bullet shape is decidedly better having a boattail on a longer bullet
should give it a better BC.

#FWIW, I believe the brown ammo is noncorrosive....

I wouldn't use case color as an indicator of the corrosive nature of
the primer or the powder.  Many folks don't know that there was (is?)
a flash reducer added to the powder in much of this ammo that's
considered "mildly corrosive" - making it hard to say that any of it
is strictly "non-corrosive".

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Introducing New Shooters to the Sport (Part II)
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:27:11 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <9211050713.aa29295@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
#I have found that this is THE best method to make pro-gunners out of
#the undecided, or even the slightly anti-gun person.
#Take em to the range once, and they're hooked.
#All of us should take as many people shooting as possible.

I cannot agree with this more. A year ago, I had a completely different
view on Person with Guns (tm). Even though I was not anti-gun, I didn't
see very high on weapons at all. But now, I am thinking to lay my hands
on full auto "assault rifles". :) Thanks to my friend Alan. :) :)

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Guns (was Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests)
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:27:24 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Malcolm Redmore) writes,  among  other
things:


#Now, on to a RealGunRelated question.  I have been sniffing around at
#getting a laser sight. However, since they are red, I'm shying away from
#it.  Red is a bad color for night use.  I'd prefer green or yellow...
#Unfortunatly, the diodes that they use only come in red/infared.

Red a bad color for night use?  Why should this  be  so?   As  an
amateur astronomer for many years, I can verify that red is *the*
color for night use.  Red  light,  containing  less  energy  than
light  of other colors, doesn't destroy your night vision as much
as mentioned other colors.  That's the reason why astronomers use
it.  If you have to look at the light,  than back in the darkness
you don't want to be blinded.  The same goes for a defense situa-
tion.

Yellow or, for that matter, white is best for  blinding  someone.
Having a high-powered flashlight for blinding your opponent could
be a strategic asset, though.  On the other hand, if blinded,  he
might  blast away on general principles.  In the direction of the
light, of course.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: woltz@cray.com (Bruce Woltz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mini 14 fires when not in battery
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:24:04 GMT
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA

In article <1992Nov10.222552.13987@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
#I was shooting my Mini 14 at the range last Saturday, when I noticed
#something a trifle worrisome. Twice, I had a failure to feed (due to a
#flawed after-market magazine); in both instances, the shell was wedged at
#an angle between the magazine and the chamber, and in both instances, I
#found out about what happened when I heard a "click" instead of a "bang".
#
#Is the Mini 14 supposed to be capable of firing when the bolt is not fully
#closed? If so, isn't this unsafe? (If the bolt were to fail to close, but
#the cartridge is in line so the firing pin hits the primer, the unsupported
#case might rupture.)
#
#I'd appreciate feedback on this.
#
#-- 
#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
#Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#
No it's not capable of firing. It is operating properly. 
What you heard was the hammer dropping, but the firing pin was 
blocked from hitting the primer. On a mini-14 / M1A / M14 (/M1??) as the
bolt slides forward the firing pin is held back by a flat surface until the
bolt closes completely. When closed there is a slot that part of the firing
pin can move through allowing the end of the pin to hit the primer.

The hammer drops because there isn't any disconnector mechanism like those
commonly found on autoloading pistols. 

Bruce Woltz
woltz@cray.com
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:20 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1dk5giINN541@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, by rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A. Ray):
# Is there a reason that Teflon-based lubricants (ie - Triflow) aren't  
# used for case sizing?  It seems that since it's an excellent  
# lubricant and is dry (after the propellent evaporates) that it would  
# be ideal for such a purpose.  Plus you wouldn't have to wipe them off  
# when done since it's not gummy like most.  It would also seem that  
# since it's a dry lubricant that there wouldn't be a problem with  
# powder contamination.
#

I don't think I would want to fire a "lubricated" round in any of
my guns.  I believe I have read in the manuals that this is a bad
idea.  I believe the reason was that the lubricant would
interfere with the brass making a proper seal with the firearm. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:47 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young) writes:

#These days, I take ear plugs to rock concerts.  (Last time I forgot was a 
#Springsteen concert; my ears rang for a week :-(


	A while ago, sometime before or during the "make yourself deaf 
just to get used to it" thread last year, I tried out some Rem Hi-vels and 
CCI Stingers in my J-22 pocket gun.   It was such a damn irritating sound,
I can't describe it, but I had heaven's golden chorus in both ears for some 
time.  It was like Carmina Burana full blast on the drive home from the
dump, and I didn't even have the radio on.

Jim D
From: IZZYPI9@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Alexander Burchell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cor-Bon ammo...
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:34:09 GMT

On the subject of CorBon ammunition, although I have read enthusiastic
reccomendations of it in various magazines, there has been some
discussion of its unsuitability for specific handguns.  People I've
spoken to seem to have various opinions about this, e.g.:

    1)  Higher than normal velocity ammunition cannot be used in
aluminum-frame automatics (e.g. SIG) because it will bend the frame.
I have heard it suggested (by an employee of a gun store) that SIG
will not honor the factory warranty if high-velocity ammunition is
used in the gun.
    2)  Such ammunition *can* be used in any modern semi-automatic
handgun without problem.  The only difficulties have been encountered
in very old handguns.
    3)  Such ammunition does not function as well (in terms of accuracy
and/or reliability) in certain handguns which are agreed to be capable
of employing it (e.g. HKP7M8).
    4)  This ammunition "makes" the 9mm as a defense cartridge.

I'm confused by these conflicting opinions; can a knowlegeable person
provide some answers?
                         Alexander Burchell (IZZYPI9@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU)