From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: Why I am an atheist  (long!)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 21:27:49 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

In article <1992Aug26.190100.2981@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>If Christianity made any sense, there
>wouldn't be a whole lot of different versions of it.

I disagree.  I think the sole reason that there are so many versions
of it is that it makes so _much_ sense to so many people.  All the
many versions of Christianity are alike in their core beliefs, but
they've branched off from one another over the ages because of various
events through history (the Anglican church broke off from the
Catholic church due to England wanting to assert its independence, for
example).

>I think that it _doesn't_
>make sense, and people believe it anyway because they either don't think about
>the problems or they rationalize them away.

That's a very good point.  It's entirely possible that Christians are
only rationalizing away everything that conflicts with their religion.
But they do a perfectly good job of rationalizing things _within the
context of their religion_, and besides, who's to say that we atheists
aren't just rationalizing away the existence of a god?  Who's to say
that whenever we reflect that the universe might be a nicer place if
only there were such things as absolute good and spiritual guidance,
this isn't the sign of a deity trying to nudge us towards him?

Nobody can say absolutely for sure either way.  Keep an open mind.

(A note, by the way; let me expand on my argument a bit.  The
Christianity I'm trying to defend isn't the literal Christianity that
says that everything in the Old Testament happened exactly precisely
as it's written.  Instead, I'm talking about a more flexible view of
Christianity, one that's willing to listen to (and try to accept)
facts that science reveals to it, and see how these facts fit in with
its beliefs.)

>And nonsense doesn't become sense just because you add the phrase "God says
>that so-and-so is because..." to the front of it.  Perhaps if God were to give
>orders without explaining them, one could say that starting from the assumption
>that there is a God, it makes sense to follow his orders.  But if God gives
>explanations or states facts, they'd better really be factual.

I agree.  A religion in which God says "Two and two is five" won't
hold much water with me.  But no matter how outrageous the god's
proclamations are, if its followers have somehow made the religion
plausible to me, I won't write it off just for being unusual.

>It certainly logically follows from the premises of some religions that the
>believer must be rude and intolerant.  But though that may explain his
>rudeness and intolerance, it doesn't excuse it.  If someone is rude to me, I
>reserve the right to be rude back; whether or not his rudeness follows from
>his premises, I really don't care.

Another good point.  I guess you're justified in being as rude to an
evangelist as he is to you.  But I personally don't like being rude to
people; it's just not my way, especially when I know the person who's
acting rudely to me isn't being that way just for the sake of being
rude.

>>"So what evidence has Christianity offered?" you ask?  The Bible and
>>related stories of miracles that took place two millenia ago, a lot of
>>which seem just a little too coincidental for me to summarily dismiss.
>>And also the fact that an awful a lot of people (including good
>>friends of mine whom I know to be practical-minded people) claim to
>>have felt a divine presence working in their lives.  Sure, it's not
>>enough for me to base faith on, but it's also too much to just ignore.
>
>I don't ignore it either.  I assume it's a real phenomenon.  Only it's a
>phenomenon of human nature, not one of any actual divine presences.

[ mention of the burning bush deleted ]

That wasn't the kind of evidence I meant.  Whoever Jesus was, and
whatever he did, there's ample evidence that he did attract a
considerable number of followers during his life.  And among a people
who probably had little faith in miracles, he did some supernatural
feats that were so noteworthy that at least four individuals wrote
about them over the course of a dozen or so years (I think there are
other gospels that have been left out of the Bible), and somehow the
stories were remarkably similar.  And whoever or whatever he was,
Jesus preached a message that had never been heard before -- the "love
thy neighbor as thyself" business -- and inspired his followers to
openly defy the government, at the cost of a good deal of suffering,
and in many cases their own lives.

Not enough to make me accept Christianity, as I've said before, but
enough to make me interested enough to learn a lot more about the
religion.

     << Brian >>

-- 
_/_/_/       Brian Kendig  Macintosh Jedi           Live never to be ashamed
 _/_/   Starfleet Captain  Oracle Employee         if anything you do or say
  _/  Intrepid Adventurer  Saturn SL2 Owner    is published around the world
      bskendig@netcom.com  Twin Peaks Junkie    -- even if what is published
    Princeton '92! BSE/CS  Writer/Actor/Singer                   is not true.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:15181 alt.atheism:16153