HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:56:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Bible hypertext

Wendy, the comment "the Bible is not a hypertext" is some clever
rejoinder I was giving Myles for something he said, nothing of which
I remember now, a good reason for my never having said anything
in the first place.  (This is the kind of message that causes the
less hardy to quit MBU in droves.)  Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:48:32 EST
From:         "DEBORAH S. BOSLEY" <FEN00DSB@UNCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Favorite and most despised fonts
              20 Aug 1992 12:15:13 -0400 from <R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

Bob, because I have a background in typography (having been an apprentice to a
fine arts book printer), I am a bit particular about fonts, sizes, etc.  I try
to get students to use a serif font (particularly courier or times) because I t
hink serif has more character, strength, and is, frankly, easier to read.  They
like the more modern san serifs like helvetica or geneva, but the real problem
comes when they do resumes and like to use "unreadable" stuff that looks pretty
Incidently, someone has done research on the masculinization of typefaces as we
ll as research into which faces are easier to read.  wish I knew who.  So altho
ugh only in this one area, I am pretty conservative about the fonts I recommend
.  There are some good books on typography on the market.  With all this intere
st in technical communication and visual design, clearly typefaces are a signif
icant element in document design.  I'm interested in the results of your inquir
y.  Deborah
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:16:26 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Relevance?
              16 Aug 1992 19:00:34 CDT from <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>

You're right, Bob. Relevance to what end? A lot of 18-19 yr olds
will answer truthfully that rock music and chasing earnestly
after members of the opposite sex are what's relevant, and
while I don't think it be too difficult to create courses
in those subjects (although it might be difficult to find
enough teachers from the current supply) what good would an
education in those areas be "after," when the world waited to
swallow them up?

Still, without going so far as to suggest an answer to that
question, I would assert that the standard sort of curriculum
imposed upon each individual regardless of interests or talents
is not much more practically relevent or valuable educationally
than Dancing on the Teacher's Desk 103, or other self-designed
schemes. Since things are changing so fast, the relevance of that
good old English studies curriculum (Big Dose of dead white poets,
a snort of shakespeare, a little writing here & there, read Clarissa
until your eyeballs shrivel, that sort of thing) must be
darn near petrified and sitting, forgotten, in some dusty
corner.

Eric
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:03:02 EST
From:         Karla Saari Kitalong <KITALONG@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: What we're allowed to know
              17 Aug 1992 17:09:00 GMT from
              <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>

I'm forever grateful for my mother's wisdom. When I was in high school
she advised me to take a typing course "just in case you ever have to
support yourself!" In contrast, many of my friends were advised by their
executive fathers that if they knew typing, they would be doomed to
type forever. My mom must've had one of those crystal balls from the Ioway
Bookstore...

 ------------------------
 Karla Saari Kitalong
 ------------------------
 Academic Computing Specialist - Department of Humanities
 Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI  49931
 -----------------------------------------
 E-mail:  kitalong@mtus5.bitnet * kitalong@mtu.edu
 Voice:   work - (906) 487-2066 * home - (906) 482-3656
 ----------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 14:36:34 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Behaving like college students

 Becky, that's a good question. How do college people behave? Since I proposed
 a fantasy world, I'd rather talk about how they ought to behave and we can
 work from there. College students ought to be academically motivated. They
 should read, write, study, question. They should be willing to participate in
 the academic community that exists outside the classroom. They should engage
 in their education (this is the critical element). And faculty should engage
 in the process of educating/being educated. They should party, get stinking
 drunk, and go to football games, if they want to. They can even get a good
 tan. I don't know. What else? The students who waste everyone's time and money
 are the disengaged, people seeking degrees rather than education. A more
 problematic student is the student seeking very specific training--say, a
 teaching certificate or certain qualifications in accounting. These students
 (often but not alway s older. non-traditional students) are willing to work
 very hard in courses whose relevance to their personal goals is obvious, but
 they are extremely impatient with general education requirements, foreign
 language requirements, required composition courses, and the like. They tend
 to put off these requirements, and then they fight them every inch of the way.
 These students are the ones for whom we should begin to provide special
 focused short-term programs as alternatives to traditional liberal-arts-based
 degrees. Their goals and ours are just not the same (maybe that "ours" should
 be "mine").

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:26:47 -0400
From:         WENDY <WARREN@EDINBORO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ACE in Louisville

Bill,
I might be interested and/or able to help, depending on the dates.
When is it again?
Wendy Warren
Edinboro University of PA
Edinboro, PA 16444
814-732-2247 (ofc.) or 814-734-4972 (hme.)
warren@edinboro.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:22:06 CDT
From:         WESCHAP@UIUCVMD.BITNET
Subject:      the politics of correctness

I found Robert Royar's tag interesting:  "The average voter doesn't view
himself as articulate, so I
think they can understand the President."
-- Bob Teeter
Bush Campaign
Manager
There's a good deal to truth to this observation.  Case in point:  our
day careprovider, a conservative, very religious person (also a very
competent woman and a decent human being) once questioned her spelling
of "tomatoes" in a letter she wrote to us, with a parenthetic remark to
the effect that, because she feels  that she is a poor speller herself,
she really empathized with Dan Quayle.  So  I wonder how many of
Quayle's so-called "gaffes" (to say nothing of Bush's and Reagan's) may
in fact have increased his popularity rather than diminished it. Such
gaffes fit nicely with Bush's contention that liberals in this country
make  up an elite--you know those liberals, they're (their? there?) the
ones who cozied up to their English teachers, the grammar police.  One
doesn't have to look far to see why our students can't figure out why we
writing teachers get so hot and bothered about useless mechanics.
From: jporter@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU (Jim Porter)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Social Interaction in Computer Classrooms
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:49:41 GMT
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              English Department" at Aug 20, 92 8:15 am

Tom ... Here's how I would respond to your colleague:
Computers do not eliminate or even reduce face-to-face
communication.  I've had just as much face-to-face
communication in my computer lab courses as I ever
did in the traditional classroom.  Probably more.
If anything, I'd say that the computer classroom
facilitates face-to-face interaction because it
breaks down some of the authority of the teacher
standing up in the front.

In addition, if you use electronic networking in
the classroom, your students have an additional form
of communicating with the teacher.  My students write
me notes at night, over the weekend, and I can give them
response outside of class time and office hours.  The
electronic network makes me more accessible to them, and
vice versa.

In short, I think teacher-student communication improves
in the computer classroom.

Good luck with your colleague.  Of course the challenge is convincing
someone who's never had this experience to accept its validity.  That's
the hard part.

--------------------
Jim Porter
Purdue University
jporter@mace.cc.purdue.edu
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:30:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      go for it, Rob

Right on, Rob.  "I Led Three Lives."  Boy, I haven't heard of
THAT TV show in thirty years.  For some reason it made me think
of two other early '50s shows that no one ever heard of but hit
me right in the emotional zone at the right time.  Charles
Bronson in "Man With a Camera" and Brian Keith in "The Crusader."
I think both folded in a single year, and before 1955, but for
some reason they stick in the mind and I can even remember the
plots of a couple of 30-minute episodes of each.  Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:44:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6. 233 (18)

Date: 17 Aug 1992 14:48:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: FATCG@USU.BITNET
Message-id: <01GNOX1X3RCI8YA2CF@CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6.233 (18)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

John O'Connor--
I asked Michael Spooner at NCTE about these duplicating costs, and he
noted they did need to cover office expenses (FAX, phone, postage,
duplicating).  He welcomes queries though; his email address is
NCTE@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU
He did say NCTE tries to keep costs below university presses; Rutgers is
5cents per page and NCTE 3 cents.
joyce kinkead

------------------------------
From: handford@cs-acad-lan.Lakeheadu.Ca (B HANDFORD)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Help: MBU Purpose
Summary: Explanation of Newsgroup bit.listserv.mbu-l
Keywords: Acronym Definition Goals
Date: 19 Aug 1992 05:36:42 GMT
Organization: Lakehead University

Some help please for a novice picking his way through a thousand bewildering 
newsgroups and choosing the *right ones*. Can someone send me a brief 
explanation of the MBU group, what the acronym stands for, and what the 
purposes of this group are.

Much obliged

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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:06:20 CDT
From:         C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: well said

>This course is designed to produce the following changes in eachof you:
>Now what do I type?
>Myles
>
Don't type anything, Myles. Ask your students to finish the sentence
for you. Ask them what they would like to become.  I'll bet the
answers would be interesting and instructive and maybe even surprising.

Saves you some syllabus work, too.   :)

Of course, as I discovered this summer, some students will see the
question as a sign that you aren't doing your job. You, after all,
are getting PAID (from their tuition money, no less) to know what
is good for them. And you damn well better tell them what they
should know and who they should become. Tell them something,
anything, before they complain to an administrator.

Eric Crump
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:54:42 EDT
From:         Susanmarie Harrington <USERGFHF@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      ncte duplicating charges

John, I wondered about the NCTE duplication fees too, since on the
inside cover of both CE and CCC it says "reproduction of material in
this publication is hereby authorized provided the use of mateiral is both
non-commerical and educational and the number of copies does not
exceed 100.  Full citation of source should be
placed in a prominent space before reproduction."  So I don't
see how they can turn around and start charging.
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:51:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Latin vrs. Turbo Pascal

Rob Royar, asking about non-canonical stuff we have learned and
enjoyed, has forced me to repeat a story that many on MBU have
heard, but I can't help it.  When I returned to get my Ph.D., I
bought a TRS-80 Model IV because I knew I'd need a word processor
for all the writing I was going to have to do.  I had never used
a computer prior to that.  Well, I got hooked on BASIC during
the summer before I entered the program at UT and spent
incredible numbers of hours tinkering with incredibly idiotic
little programs (those who tinker with programming know what I
mean).  All the time my wife was nagging me about bringing my
Latin back up to snuff for the language requirement.  I
eventually got the English department to accept BASIC and Turbo
Pascal as compensation for the language requirement (this at UT!)
and never had to take the test in Latin.  I'm sure my
subsequent career has suffered from a lack of Latin, but my
tinkering with computers has quite literally changed my
professional interests, revitalized a flagging interest in
education itself, etc. etc.  Eric and Bobby's points are well
taken, by me at least.  Sorry, David.  E.D. Hirsch defines
"useful" things from a quickly receding past.  Fred Kemp, TTU
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:44:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Carpal Tunnel Typists (29)

Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:54:40 EDT
From:         IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug18.065440.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Carpal Tunnel Typists (29)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  Robert Royar
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

One of my colleagues suffers from Carpal tunnel.  She says that her
therapist/physician told her touch typists are more susceptible than are hunt
and peckers on computer keyboards.  The problem seems to be the way one holds
ones hands (as if holding a ball in the palm) coupled with the increased speed
computer keyboards allow over typewriters.  I've hunted and pecked since I was
seven (when my mother gave me a typewriter) but I never took typing because I
was too lazy.

 --Robert Royar (r0mill01@ulkyvx.bitnet) New York Institute of Technology

*************************************
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Organization: University at Buffalo
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:45:29 -0500
From:         ENGMYLES@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: no duking

David:  I didn't know we had the same degree or one degree: we give BAs, BSs,
all in different fields, and by no means liberal arts based: the common core
we are devising favors the sciences and math;, devalues the humanities.
I don't know why, probably because the humanities have the smallest faculty
left and we are headed to an MIT model.
But: we do offer a range of certifications, and I don't know that anybody knows
what a full treatment is.  Latin and Greek to start with?
If I wanted a lively person, I'd take the life experience BA, not one from
Princeton, which is academically and socially stiff and formal -- wonderful if
you want a certain kind of graduate student or hierarchical civil servant.
Everybody recognizes the difference between a Harvard BA and a Michigan BA.
Unless employers know or care less than I think.
Myles
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:15:13 -0400
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      Favorite and most despised fonts

Question for writing teachers, the answers to which may be used as part
of an essay on the rhetoric of wordprocessed manuscripts that I'm in the
middle of revising:  What are your favorite and least favorite fonts seen
in the student papers you receive?  What fonts and pitches look best to
you?  Which do you wish never to see again?  And finally, if you could
tell students one thing about their wordprocessed manuscripts, what
would it be?  Please reply under the header above, and thanks very much
for the info and time.

Bob Connors, UNH
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:32:15 --500
From:         KEELINGJ@VTVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Reply to your request

 *** Reply to note of 08/13/92 00:33
 Jim:
 I think I can oblige a "browser," but only if you put me up in Honolulu some
 day.  Much depends, though, on the amount of funding I receive for this pilot
 course.  Our Information Systems office here is committed to the project;
 however, they have not decided on which model from my proposal to implement
 for this fall.  I think my 'optimal intitial requirements' will indeed be
 funded.  If this is the case, then we will have some fairly powerful hardware
 and several data-lines running into the BBS, all of which would mean that
 someone such as yourself could eavesdrop or even participate without getting
 in the way.  I should know by the middle of next week what kind of funding I
 will receive (that will leave me with all of 1 1/2 weeks to order the hardware,
 initialize the software, and work of the bugs out of the system. Joy!).  The
 worst case scenario will have me, for the fall at least, running the software
 on an existing machine with one data line for limited periods of time.  This
 kind of system would restrict what I can do in class, make student access to
 the BBS a headache for us all, and would eliminate any on-line participation on
 your end.  Of course, I could still keep you informed of our "daily/weekly
 progression."

 That is all I can really tell you for now, but as I set up the system I will
 get back to you and let you know how you can 'browse` the `CMWC.'
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:01:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: Favorite and most despised fonts (20)

Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:36:58 EDT
From:         IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug21.063658.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Re: Favorite and most despised fonts (20)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  Robert Royar
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

I got so sick of the san-serif font on my computer five years ago that I drew
my own.  That's a real chore.  Funny thing about the screen font is that most
people find it hard to read, but I find it easy--easier than the "standard" MAC
and the PC fonts usually offered.

In the 1920 new San Serif fonts were created (Univers, Helios, Helvetica)
because they were thought to be simpler than serif fonts and, therefore,
easier to read.  But when I took a course in reading in grad school I can
remember that researchers discovered people overwhelmingly read serif fonts
faster and more accurately (in blocks of text) than they did san serif.

Van Nostrand publishes the International Type Book which I use in my DTP class.
You might also take a look at the trade publication U&lc (Upper and lower
case), which has some interesting material about fonts and type.

My favorite typeface is an old one, Bembo named after Cardinal Bembo because it
was used to set his _De Aetna_ in 1495 (designed by Francesco Griffo for Aldus
Manutius).  Garamond is based on this typeface.  It's got real character.  I've
never seen it on a computer though.

Another good choice for computer-based printing (screen or laser/dot) is
Lucida. It comes in all flavors (script, serif, sans, light to heavy
(demi-bold)).  It's good because it's been designed from the ground up to avoid
the "jaggies" when printed on low-resolution screens (768x1024 is low) or on
low-res printer (600 spots per inch or less).

 -- Robert Royar (r0mill01@ulkyvx.bitnet) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 09:46:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6. 239 (1)

Date: 21 Aug 1992 09:46:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: FATCG@USU.BITNET
Message-id: <01GNU7PBLXC28YAV5S@CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: RE: Computers and Composition Digest 6.239 (1)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Favorite fonts for Bob:
Thumbs up on Univers 12
Down on Courier
Advice to students:  turn off right justification.

------------------------------
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:35:49 ADT
Comments:     <20AUG92.14717154.0080.MUSIC@UNB.CA>
From:         HUNT000 <HUNT@UNB.CA>
Subject:      Favorite and most despised fonts

Bob --
     I don't care about the fonts much (though I remember hating the
old IBM selectric ball that imitated handwriting so wretchedly)
-- but what I want to tell my students about wordprocessed
product is: "After it's printed, keep the file, it's not finished."

                                    -- Russ
                                _~|__
Russell A. Hunt            _~|__)_ __)~|__   Learning and Teaching
Department of English      )_ __)_|_)__ __)    Development Officer
St. Thomas University        |  )____) |        EMAIL: hunt@unb.ca
Fredericton, New Brunswick___|____|____|____/  FAX: (506) 450-9615
E3B 5G3   CANADA          \                / PHONE: (506) 452-7700
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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