HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: At what age is day care appropriate?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:42:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.033306.26653@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> lauraf@notavax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>
>As one who replied to your original post I would like point out that the
>way you replied, it would naturally be taken in the way that it was. No
>where in your post did you put anything in that was disclaimer that you were
>merely trying to show how some people might think. You seemed to say that you
>thought it. People responded in kind. 

I guess I've really confused you now.  I DO think children are best off when
their primary care takers are their parents (one, both, or a combination) than
when they spend most of their day with strangers who will not be integral
parts of their lives.  Grandparents, aunts, and uncles are a very good second
best.  Complete strangers with high turn over rate is worst.  This is my
philosophical stand.  Others feel differently, that is their philosophical
stand.  That is what we are trying to discuss.

But, because I explained why people with this bias scorn others, I did not 
mean to imply that I scorn those who make different choices.  At times I may
very well scorn their chioces, such as leaving the child with a baby sitter
and spending 6 mos. in Europe, missing the Little League play offs because
you had to close a big deal (especially when you close about 40 big deals
a year), or uprooting your children every other year because there's always
a bigger opportunity and a better job.  There are lots of choices people make
with their children.  

And you probably scorn some of mine, such as allowing as much TV as desired,
letting them play with guns, swords, and other weapons of violence, not 
limiting sweets, weaning at 2 mos., and indoctrinating my children with 
religion (an argument I had with a collegue over lunch yesterday).  This is
part and parcel of parenting.  We have strong views about what is best for
children, but we can still respect the rights of others to have different 
views (I hope).  

I also hope we can scorn the choices without scorning the people just as we
dislike our children's behavior while not disliking them.  This is a place to 
discuss ideas and philosophies.  If I say "children are not pets" and you feel 
judged and insulted, I have to question which button I pushed.  If you say, "I 
agree, and just because I hire someone to care for my children while I work 
does not mean I treat them like pets" then we are having a discussion.  
Perhaps the difference is quite subtle and I am the only one who sees it.

-- 
"This is just a test.  Had this been a real life, you would have been given
further instructions on where to go and what to do."
							Judy Leedom Tyrer
From: celia@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Celia H Modell)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Safety expert suggestion
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:12:18 GMT
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

On Prime Time Live last night, they had a story on someone who gives
street survival classes. He had one suggestion that I thought was
appropriate to misc.kids.

He suggested telling your children that if they were walking home
from school and someone started to follow them they should start
running but first DROP their bookbag. He commented that heavy
bookbags could slow them down. This seemed like good advice.

celia modell

-- 
               >>>ALL OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE MINE ALONE<<<
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
	  INTERNET: c.modell@ssc-bee.boeing.com      COMPMAIL: c.modell
	  UUCP: uw-beaver!bcsaic!ssc-bee!celia       COMPUSERVE: 72376,252
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Starting Kindergarten
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:31:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: locus.1992Apr14.183120.825672
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California


The trend seems to be more to hold boys back rather than girls.  One mother
of a teen-age boy bemoans the fact she didn't hold her son back (late fall
birthday) because his is too short to play varsity sports.  I don't condone 
this, but if having your kids be a varsity athlete is important to you as a
parent, then there is a lot of good reason to hold him back.  On the other
hand, my nephew was double promoted and at age 13 is on the senior varsity
wrestling team and recently won an international match in Greece.

Personally, I have Mitchell on the waiting list for both fall of '93 and
fall of '94 kindergarten figuring I'll wait and see what his teachers
think is best AND whether or not he gets into the school of my choice (and
everyone else's in the area).  I thought I was starting so early.  I was
wrong.  The waiting list at the school is 3-4 years long.  Sigh!  (Oh yes,
we WERE planning on using the public schools, until we found out they bus
kids in from gang infested areas and two weeks ago a kids was shot at the
high school).
-- 
"This is just a test.  Had this been a real life, you would have been given
further instructions on where to go and what to do."
							Judy Leedom Tyrer
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: You know you're really parents when...
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 19:39:46 GMT

Mitchell's favorite was "C is for Cookie".


-- 
I finally decided what I want on my tombstone...

	"Here lies Judy Leedom Tyrer.  The world will never see another like 
	 her.  We are undecided on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing."
From: sue@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Sue McPherson)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Reading & breastfeeding
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:26:07 GMT
Organization: Software Contracts Group, University of Melbourne, Australia

In article <18145@oasys.dt.navy.mil> cooper@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lynette Cooper) writes:
>>.....................  There's plenty of time to read with a new baby;
>>you just read while you nurse......
>Don't count on it.  Breastfeeding was a two handed operation for me!

Obviously, what works for some doesn't work for others, but....

When Sarah was very little, the following method allowed me to have both 
hands free and read lots of books;
(assume the baby is feeding on the right side)
 - sit in a comfortable chair (or couch)
 - have a pillow across your lap
 - lie baby on pillow, with head supported in the crook of your right arm
   (the baby is on the pillow but her tummy is still up against your tummy)
 - the pillow also helps to support your elbow, raising your right leg, 
   either by crossing your legs or resting your foot on a coffee table may
   help to support your elbow at the right level
 
This leaves your right hand free to hold the book (behind the baby) and
your left hand to turn the pages.

This worked really well for me when Sarah was little (when she got bigger I
dispensed wioth the pillow) but now if I try to read she gets distracted
by the book and wont feed.

I suspect a lot depends on your size (I'm only a C cup) and whether your baby
has a good sucking technique!

Sue McPherson
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: 8 year old hates 3rd grade math
Summary: How to get your child to like math?
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:07:49 GMT


My 8 year old daughter detests math and refuses to do her math work in 
school.  She gets A's in reading, language and spelling.  Her last report 
card had an 'N'.  I try working with her at home, and she whines and 
complains about it.  I'd like to try to make it "fun".  Any ideas?  The 
teacher reports that she knows the math, just refuses to do it, especially 
when there is more than 1 step involved, i.e., first adding and then 
dividing.
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
From: johnnyb@ims.com (Johnny Battle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: You know you're a parent when..
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:09:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: ims.1992Apr7.170915.22369
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.

..when "Let's stop for a drink," means "Pull over at the
 next Texaco service station with a washroom."
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: robin@aus.intel.com (robin rosenbaum)
Subject: Re: Rain songs
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:09:52 GMT

Robert Louis Stevenson's poem, _The Rain Is Raining All Around_,
fits nicely to the tune of _Greensleeves_ (if you celebrate Christmas, you
may have heard it as _What Child Is This_).

The rain is rai-aining all arou-ound     (Alas, my love, you do me wro-ong
It falls on field and it falls on tree   (To treat me thu-us discourteously
It falls on the-e umbrellas here         (When I have lov-ed you for so lo-ong
And it falls on the shi-ips at sea-ea    (Deligh-ighting i-in your company

For the chorus, we (son & I) had a lot of fun making up different things the
rain falls on ..."Rain, raining on the house...Rain, raining on the mouse..."

The book, _A Child's Garden of Verses_, has Stevenson's poem.

Robin Hilp
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: ONLY CHILDREN
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 15:35:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: USA
Keywords: DAUGHTER, 8 YEAR OLD, ONLY CHILD

In article <holly.42@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com> holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise) writes:
>
>My 8 year old daughter is very upset because she has no sister or brother.  
>My husband and I can't have any more children.  She doesn't really want a 
>younger brother or sister anyway.  She wants a twin or someone to play 
>with.  Anyone have any experience either with having an only child or being 
>one that I could use to make her feel better?
>-----

I'm interested in this topic also - my 5 year old feels somewhat
the same now and I expect the feeling she has to intensify as
she gets older.  My SO and I wanted to have kids but let's just
say the prospects are quite poor.  For various reasons we may or 
may not be able to adopt.  

I also am interested in learning ideas of ways to deal with
this topic with Laura.


Xref: sparky misc.kids:12983 misc.education:1915
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: You know you're a parent when...
From: johnnyb@ims.com (Johnny Battle)
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:04:28 GMT
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.

When more Cheerios are on the floor than are left in the box.
From: ishizaki@hplred.HP.COM (Audrey Ishizaki)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:45:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Day Care Worker Pay Scales - Shameful!
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: misc.kids

Let me preface my comments that the daycare center I use in in California,
which may have different regulations than other states.  I believe that
licensed daycare in CA requires caregiver:infant/toddler ratios of 1:4 or
less.  I was told that for preschool (3 and up?), the legal ratios jump to
one caregiver to 12 kids.

So, some daycares (which have both an infant/toddler program and a preschool)
subsidize the infant/toddler care with the money from the preschool.

My daycare center (which I love) does not have an associated preschool,
so must charge a little more.  We pay $715/month, and this is *not* the
most high priced daycare in my area, either (SF Bay Area)!  Let me also
say that I'm very happy with my daycare center (and I've spent a *lot* of
time there) and there seems to be very little turnover in the staff.

audrey ishizaki
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 14:37:45 EDT
From: Joni Snyder <JSNYDER@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Boy (8 yrs.) wearing out shoes
Distribution: usa


In article <ku5r24INNk96@cronkite>, nate@grmail.Central.Sun.COM (Nate McConnell
FE/SSE Grand Rapids) says:
>
>In article <1992Apr7.194442.22891@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
>melissa@spanky.jpl.nasa.gov (Melissa Probst) writes:
>>My son who will be 8 in May has been going through shoes like
>>crazy lately.  We are having to buy him new ones every month!
>>It doesn't matter if we spend $15 or $50 for shoes they seem
>>to wear out just the same.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Melissa
>
>My sister always bought my nephew Zips at Stride Rite cause if they
>wore out within a certain period of time (I don't remember how long)
>you could exchange them for a new pair.  Maybe they still do this.
>
>Cindy

I sure the policy at Stride Rite is they will replace the shoes
as long as the child has not out grown the shoes.  (ie.  They will
replace with the same size only.)  Twice I have Stride Rite and
Nordstroms dept. store replace Stride Rite shoes with a 1/2 size
larger when the original size was out of stock.  Nordstroms also
gave me the option for a refund and the shoes were 6 weeks old.
Stride Rite shoes are quite a bit more money, $40 for the last pair
for my soon to be 4 year old, but I think it's worth it if they keep
replacing them if they wear out before they are out grown.

Joni Snyder, George's mom.
From: pgallant@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What kind of rituals do you do?
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:12:33 GMT


Something that my family has done for quite some time is to get the
newspaper on the day that a baby is born and then put the highlights
into their baby book.

I just got around to doing this for my son who was born in March last
year.  It was interesting to see the headlines included things about
the gulf war,  the Pamela Smart murder trial, and how Paul Tsongas was
thinking of running for president.


 ___| Pamela Gallant               |________   ___   *
|   | Computervision, Bedford, MA  |  [ ]   | | []|__II
|   | (617) 275-1800 x4707         |  [ ]   |_|        |
 OO-| pgallant@cvbnet.prime.com    |OO----OO  OOO----OO >
Newsgroups: misc.kids,alt.satanism
From: valentin@netcom.com (Valentin Pepelea)
Subject: Re: The Satanic Purpose.
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 06:24:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom Communications, Santa Clara, CA
Keywords: Purpose.

In article <1992Apr8.152043.21643@panix.com> rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
writes:
>
>A Satanist must appease no god but himself.
>A Satanist's only purpose is to live his/her life as he/she
>sees fit.
>
>A Satanist chooses to doubt, rather than believe.

May I assume that you are not a satanits? Neither am I, but I do not describe
derogatorily other peoples religion. And I rarely play the Devil's Advocate.

I'd just like to remind you that Christians make sacrifices in the middle of
the night and eat babies' flesh. Fortunately the emperor is throwing them to
the lions in the Coliseum.

Valentin
-- 
"An operating system without virtual memory      Name:      Valentin Pepelea
 is an operating system without virtue."         Phone:     (408) 985-1700
                                                 Usenet:    netcom!valentin
                     - Ancient Inca Proverb      Internet:  valentin@netcom.com
From: ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Tuboplasty
Date: 9 Apr 1992 18:16:21 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: leander.think.com

In article <9204071911.AA02852@auroch.HQ.Ileaf.COM> writer2@auroch.HQ.Ileaf.COM (RDM Doc Contractor [Marjorie Peskin]) writes:
>Finally, perhaps Eric is not familiar with the adoption procedures in
>America.  Let me illustrate how adoption is done in my state, Massachusetts,
>and then tell me if its fair.  To adopt in Massachusetts means that you
>must be very wealthy.  The average adoption costs between 25 and 30 thousand
>dollars!

No, that's not the norm. That was the practice of Adoptions of New
England, the former local branch of Southwest Adoptions, but it's not
the practice of any other agency I'm acquainted with. My wife and I
have adopted two children, the most recent one last week. In neither
case did the agency ask for any significant payment up front. 

There was an application fee (about $100, I think) and a charge for
the home study (about $600). All other agency fees (less than $10,000,
in most cases) are payable after placement. The birth mother's medical
expenses are extra, however, as are foster care costs if the child
wasn't immediately free for adoption. Legal complications can also run
up the bill, but all of this is on a case-by-case basis, not a flat
fee. We also spent some money on advertising, but that was our choice.
As it turned out, both our sons' birthmothers came directly to the
agency, not in response to our ads.

Adoptions of New England, BTW, is out of business. A state audit
revealed that they had a debt of nearly a million dollars despite
their practice of charging up front. Lord knows where the money went. 

If you're interested in adoption, you might want to join the adoption
mailing list, adoption@think.com. To join, send your request to
adoption-request@think.com. 
-- 
Ephraim Vishniac    ephraim@think.com   ThinkingCorp@applelink.apple.com
 Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142
        One of the flaws in the anarchic bopper society was
        the ease with which such crazed rumors could spread.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Phone Ettiquette
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:31:56 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Apr8.225937.29691@athena.mit.edu>, sst@athena.mit.edu (S. Tucker) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr03.151650.32458@watson.ibm.com> strom@watson.ibm.com
|> (Rob Strom) writes:
|> >If you call my wife and I answer the phone, presumably I'm authorized
|> >to answer the phone.
|> 
|> Um, problem.  If I'm a stranger to you, then I _can't_ presume you're
|> authorized to answer the phone. -- For all I know you're the burglar.
|> When I call a business, I expect the call to be intercepted by a
|> secretary.  That isn't the case for a personal number.
|> 
I think that if a burglar were in the house, he or she would
be very unlikely to answer the phone at all, much less
ask for any information beyond a name.

The case where a stranger calls me is much more likely than
the case where a person known to me calls and reaches a stranger to me.

And if a stranger calls and asks for my wife I give away much more
information if I tell the stranger whether my wife is here
than you would give a hypothetical burglar by announcing yourself
as "S." or "Mr. Tucker" or "Ms. Tucker".

|> >when I call, I say, "Hello, this is Rob Strom; may I please speak to ---".
|> 
|> I do this automatically if
|> 1) I'm unknown to the intended recipient, i.e., it's a business call, or
|> 2) I have some acquaintance with the person who picks up the phone
|> 
|> but not in the intermediate cases like you describe.  I'm not sure why;
|> perhaps it's related to having "never give out any information to a
|> wrong number" drilled into my head.  Do you make a distinction between,
|> "Who shall I say is calling?" and "Yes, who shall I say is calling?"
|> when a caller asks if X is in?  The first one makes me paranoid, while
|> the second sounds "safe".
|> 
Usually the advice about not giving out information to a wrong number
applies to the recipient of a call not giving away information to
a caller who may have just dialed a number by mistake or mischievously
at random.

As the answerer, I make a distinction between the first case and
the second.  I use the second only if I'm sure my wife doesn't
mind being bothered, and the first if I'm not sure.

As the caller, I make no inference about the callee on the
basis of whether I hear the first or second case.

With respect to children, I teach my children never to
disclose information which might lead a stranger to deduce
whether they are home alone.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: Sandra_Petit@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Sandra Petit)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Excessive Morning Sickness--FAQL?
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:07:51 GMT
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

Somebody wrote:

I am now in my eighth week of pregnancy and extremely ill; haven't
been able to keep much of anything down; doesn't seem to be a pattern
to what I can keep down.  I am weak but very hungry.

I had hyperemesis during both of my pregnancies also.  I was hospitalized
for 3 days the first pregnancy (got down to about 85#) and was given IV's
to hydrate me.  The baby was fine though born 6 weeks early.  I don't know
if the one had anything to do with the other. 
 For my second pregnancy I was hospitalized before I even had my first
appointment, for an IV.  I only stayed in to get the IV and was released
the same day.  I continued to be ill but kept the hospitalizations at bay
by keeping an almost constant stream of liquids (soup, soft drinks whatever
would stay down) at hand.  At about 7 months I had preterm contractions and
was put on bedrest (hospitalized 5 times but no stays longer than 4 days). 
I was told that dehydration can cause contractions.  My baby was born 3
weeks early but was very healthy and needed no special care.  Both children
are fine, healthy kids.  
     Someone indicated that if one was subject to hyperemesis it might tend
to get worse with each pregnancy.  I was affected more by it during my
first pregnancy, possibly because it WAS my first.  During my second
pregnancy, I didn't have as much help and I had a 3 year old to take care
of (who ended up taking care of my quite a lot of the time).  I think that
having to be concerned about my other child, made me handle the illness
better.
     Sandie

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Internet: sandra_petit@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US
    UUCP: rex!agwbbs!sandra_petit
From: ethan@ut-emx.uucp (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Little Rabbit Foo-Foo: words wanted
Keywords: song
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:29:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

Those are the words but it's not a toad, it's a goon.

That's why the moral the story is

"Hare today, goon tomorrow."
-- 
"Quis tamen tale studium, quo ad primam omnium rerum causam evehimur,
tamquam inutile aut contemnendum detractare ac deprimere ausit?"-Bridel
Ethan T. Vishniac, Dept. of Astronomy, The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, Texas, 78712                   ethan@astro.as.utexas.edu
From: nate@ghidrah.Central.Sun.COM (Nate McConnell FE/SSE Grand Rapids)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Sharon, Lois and Bram in concert
Keywords: Anybody here seen them?
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:55:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ghidrah.central.sun.com

We are going to visit family in Ohio and my mom told me that Sharon,
Lois and Bram are going to be in concert at Playhouse Square on the
12th and 13th.  I would like to take my son and nephew to see them,
but I would like to hear from some people who have seen them to help
me decide if it would be worth it.  My nephew is 7 and my son is 2.
They both LOVE Sharon, Lois and Bram.

So, has anyone here seen them in concert?  Was it fun?  Was it worth
the $$$?  Do they have t-shirt stands and stuff like that in the lobby?
On the Elephant Show, I see little kids with their faces painted.  Do
they have people doing this in the lobby?  If I go, I want to get an idea
of how much money I'll be needing.  I think it will be a major $$$
outing!

Anxiously waiting to hear from you,

Cindy
Xref: sparky misc.kids:12878 alt.kids-talk:611 alt.parents-teens:643 misc.education:1888