From: nobby@hardy.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 22 Nov 92 06:43:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov22.064332.13347
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Nov22.054749.7481@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:

[... stuff deleted ...]

>I don't really care what xnity is. I know one thing, it is not Judaism
>and that's all a Jew has to know. As far as I am concerned xnity is a
>stolen religion, stolen from Judaism and later used as a weapon in
>domestic affairs. It is not the xnity that is lurking out there to
>snatch non-Orthodox Jews, it is non-Orthodox Jews who are out there not
>understanding that they are not attached enough to Judaism and not
>protected from being snatched. Although, xnity does snatch too. 
>One my friends who is an Orthodox Rabbi told me a story (true story),
>that when he was studing in college to become a dentist one of the guys
>tried to convert him to xnity. So, he asked that guy why of all people
>he chose him? The guy answered that in his ch. they get points for
>converting people. Boy, was I shocked when I heard this, but was even
>more shocked when I heard the last part of the story. It turned out that
>they get 1 point for converting any person, they get 2 points for
>converting a Jew. So, the guy figured that if converts a Rabbi he is
>going to get 3 points at least. So, they are out there, but no, they are
>not the main problem. I did talk to the guy that basically converted
>that girl. He is as damn as... So, he is not the one who really pulled
>her into this, she is the one who pulled herself into this. That's why I
>blamed R. Yeah, you can blame the parents too, and you should, but the
>parents are reform and did everything that any other person in their
>synagogue did. It is not that I am looking for a reason to blame R. or
>C., it is just that I did thought about it alot and all arguments leed
>to the R. 
>

The whole story sounds fishy to me. Church awarding bonus points for 
the Jewish converts? Sorry, pal, I don't buy this. I appreciate your
religious fervor but let's not resort to the arguments that are not only 
of ambiguous rhetorical value but also deeply offensive to many people.
I'm even ready to scrap my doubts about accuracy of your account per se
but if you're acting in good will you must admit that such a behaviour
is highly untypical for almost all major Christian denominations in this
country (with probable exception of LDS).

You see, I'm not a Christian. But is there any need to churn in hatred
and bring wild accusations which in this case are also totally groundless?
The OCR debate seems to stem from a deep concern that every Jew feels about
his people and his cultural heritage regardless of the branch of Judaism he 
adheres to. But is it so necessary to allude to Christianity as a source of
evil that is lurking in darkness ready to snatch lost Jewish souls?

When your sermons remained within the framework of Judaism they looked fine. 
But once you ventured outside you indiscriminately smeared a lot of people
in a couple of wide sweeps. They might be 'goyim' for you. But if this is
the case how can you expect them to treat *your* beliefs with due respect if 
they happen not to share them?

nobby@u.washington.edu

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