From: Carla.Campbell@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Carla Campbell)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: DOG GUIDE RULES
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:27:32 GMT
Reply-To: Carla.Campbell@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA

Index Number: 21149

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Oh, definitely-- I did it regularly for several years and would strongly
recommend this to any new dog handler, and would encourage him/her to
continue this and all other attention to training guidelines unless they
have a compelling reason to do otherwise.

As you noted, the instructors at the schools have extensive experience
working with dogs, and as I mentioned in my first message on this topic,
those guidelines are there for very good reasons.  I would not want to
discourage anyone from following them-- quite the contrary.  What I would
like to discourage is people following them without knowing why they're
doing it-- because that can lead to owner or dog "missing the point" and
making the particular aspect of their work ineffective by leaving out or
incorrectly emphasizing parts of the exercise or routine.

I definitely agree with you when you recommend that Bill K and anyone else
going for dog training pay close atention to what they're being taught and
are not hasty in discarding any of the practices once they get home with
their new dog.  By "not hasty", I mean, not for *years*, if ever.

At the same time, as Bill R. mentioned, knowing more about the reasons for
the things we do with the dogs (or don't do with them) makes it far easier
to understand the dynamics of the individual dog you're working with and to
see which things you might need to do differently in order to achieve the
goal of a well-behaved, reliable, obidient guide.

My dog, for instance, while a very good worker,  certainly *isn't* perfect,
(as you pointed out, none of them are ) by any means.  His weakness,
though, I'd say lies in lack of confidence to disobey when it's necessary.
I don't think he will actually obey me if it would put us in danger (or I
wouldn't trust him to cross a street), but he definitely leans to the
submissive side, rather than to the agressive. This means that I have to be
careful when asserting my authority over him to do it positively.

Naturally, I expect him to respond immediately and without question to
commands like "sit" and "down" and "stay", and we do practice "stay" a lot,
as it is his least favorite and needs work.

Much like Bill R, I think Chance associated obedience exercise, per sae,
with punishment; he would sit and lie down and sit and lie down and stay
and come immediately, without signs of reluctance, but when we did a final,
long stay and then a "come", he would return to me with his tail between
his legs and his head lowered, no matter how much I praised him for doing
it right and promptly. I don't know if this was because of something in his
raising or training or in my first months working with him-- and perhaps I
*should* have pursued it more diligently. Since his work did not appear to
suffer when we left off the formal exercises, though, I never did.

I should add that I substituted "arbitrary" obedience into his daily
routein-- making him sit and stay while I prepare his food, when I open the
front door, and at bedtime, so I can clear things up from the floor about
his bed.  At random times, I tell him to stay and I leave the room for a
time, eventually calling him to my side. But we just haven't done the
choreographed ritual obedience regularly in some time.

Just for grins, after reading some of the earlier messages here, I took
Chance through a full-blown, formal obedience session this afternoon.  He
obligingly went through the motions, and returned to me after the final
"come" without his previous cowed expression.  Perhaps it has now been long
enough that he no longer has whatever bad association he did with the
exercises. I'll continue them for a while and see if I do, indeed, notice
any difference in his work.  Since he does not seem to find them as
disturbing as he once did, it certainly cannot hurt.

                                                --Carla

... Internet Address: campbell@well.sf.ca.us

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