From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Anecdotes... Death... How come?
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:36:19 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <BsxoA4.FHH@acsu.buffalo.edu> swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann) writes:
>I'm not familiar with Arduin.  In all the roleplaying systems I'm
>familiar with, being 12th level is pretty powerful, being 16th level
>is WAY powerful, and being more than 20th level is essentially unheard
>of except in gods, demigods and soon-to-be-gods.

	Well, in RoleMaster, 20th is powerful, but not even CLOSE to godly.
As an example, the Middle-Earth world has stats on things like Balrogs,
Sauron, and so on... and I believe that  Sauron was up somewhere in the
several hundreds levels region. (I have to get myself a copy of Lords of
Middle Earth). I do know that an entire party of 20th level RoleMaster
characters would get themselves squashed by a balrog unless they got
lucky as sin.

	In Arduin, which is very similar to the D&D/AD&D milieu, the powers
tend to be just nastier overall. "Caliban" and "Death Heart", modules 
published for  Arduin, are good examples. They say "levels 8+", but
a party of AD&D 8th levelers would be diced, sliced, pureed, chopped,
and formed into neat edible squares. I tend to double levels required in
Arduin. Their character classes have tables going up from level 1 to level
100 or so, so it's supported all the way through.


>I've been playing since 1978, and GMing since 1979.  I've had one
>continuously running (modified AD&D) campaign for that whole period of
>time.  Back when we used to play on a regular basis (i.e. between 6
>and 10 hours/week), the characters advanced at a fairly steady rate of
>about 1 level every 6 to 8 months.  Because our playing time has been
>sharply curtailed over the last several years, the characters are just
>now getting to be about 12th and 13th level.
>
>I don't know what gaming systems you use, but in AD&D, if I see any
>character over 18th level, I look -real close- to see if he looks
>legit (i.e. if he earned his powers in a reasonable, non-Monty Haul
>campaign), and if I see a character over 25th level, I just start
>laughing...

	Well, you're a low-power or low-experience giver. That's cool, lots
of nice games can be had there. I've been in a lot of games where that
was not the case; in my present campaign, an entire party just retired with
their characters around 12-13th level after a year and a half of play.
If you had lots of interesting things to do, I wouldn't have a problem
myself with taking 6-8 months between levels, but under most GMs I've
seen that would be an intolerably slow moving game. I like to have my
characters involved in significant events. I like to think that I might
get to use a third or fourth or even fifth level spell before I graduate.

	I and my players like the epic fantasy feel; superior characters,
deadly risks, diabolical villains, cataclysmic battles.

	You also seem to assume that anyone REALLY works a character up
to 25+ level. I was playing NPCs with other GMs. You don't work Sauron
up from first level, you say "hmm. Dark Lord of Middle Earth. Gotta be
high level." and give him one.

	The highest level "worked him up from nothing" character I have
is at present 14th heading for 15th (in the AD&D system; in systems that 
don't use that asinine exponential advancement chart, I've gotten to
20th or 25th. (In systems that don't use levels, of course, it's an
entirely different ball of wax).


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;