HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmcmanus@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Gary McManus)
Subject: Re: THUNDERHEART
Organization: CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma, Norman
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:16:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.013534.7131@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Mark R. Leeper) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.203932.13764@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> gmcmanus@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Gary McManus) writes:
>
>> First off, I loved the movie.
>
>
>[My disagreement with the film showing ghost dancers 
>
>> But a lot of their culture (or what is left of it) is based
>> on this "magic", as you call it.  What you don't realize is
>> this was (and still is, for a lot of indians) their
>> religion.  
>
>C'mon.  Of course I realize that is is their religion.
>
>> Don't you think when they watch something like
>> the baptism scene in the Godfather that this appears like
>> magic?  
>
>No it doesn't.  There is nothing magical about what goes on on the
>screen in GODFATHER.  It is just people dropping water on a baby.
>There is nothing in that that requires a belief in the supernatural.

C'mon.  Of course I realize that there is nothing magical about a 
baptism.  But to the indians, the intent of the baptism would be 
the same as their ghost dancing is to us, magical.  Can you honestly
say that they don't have visions.  It could have been his mind making
these visions up, something about his being guilty about ignoring his
heritage or something(now I'm making stuff up...sheeesh!).  If they
believe a dream is a vision, then it's a vision.  
>the implication that a man has turned himself into a deer.  In
I don't think they were trying to make that implication.  When the
female character said that about him, I kinda thought she was just
messing with him.
>
Gary McManus
From: grkernel@cs.man.ac.uk (grkernel (Steve Pate))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: THUNDERHEART
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:04:45 GMT
Reply-To: grkernel@fiveg.icl.co.uk (grkernel (Steve Pate))
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

Ben, you seem to have a few preconceptions about this film THUNDERHEART.

You seem to think the intention of the film is to provide a fair and just
portrayal of native Americans. You gotta remember that 99% of movies are
mass media intended to do no more than entertain. If a popular movie fails
at that then it's simply a bum movie - however personal or emotive the
subject matter.

Mr. Leeper's review was simply from the point of view of an (no insult
intended) 'uninformed' viewer which, after all, is what most of the films
audience is going to be.

If you really feel the review of the film was unfair, you're free to write
a new one of your own, but remember it's a review of the film, not your own
personal love of native American culture.

I have not seen the movie, so I make no comment on its fairness. Have you?

FloYd
---
Email... Now there's a good one... You could try
j.c.w.arnold@uk03.wins.co.icl.uk  or maybe
grkernel@fiveg.icl.co.uk          or perhaps
phuqh@uk.ac.warwick.csv           but it'll be different again next week :-)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: pinecone@leland.Stanford.EDU (Celeste Campbell)
Subject: Re: Plug Pulled on Spike Lee's "Malcolm X"
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 02:04:20 GMT


It's so ridiculous the way this whole deal with Spike Lee and
_Malcolm X_ has been handled.  Why did the original money people
approve a 190 page script on a 120 page budget? (this according
to Denzel Washington on "Arsenio Hall" a while back).  The bond
company should just get a grip on reality and help Lee finish the
film--he's proven in the past that his movies make money.  My 
guess is that the people in charge think that it will have a 
limited appeal (ie:just to blacks), but it ain't necessarily so.

cc

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: THUNDERHEART
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:29:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.100031.5402@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Mark R. Leeper) writes:
>
>This conversation is starting to get into real trivia.  My impression
>is that deer tend to stick to wild areas and stay away from settled
>areas.  Particularly because that was not a highly-settled area, it
>would probably be unusual to see a deer that close to buildings.

	Deer have a brain roughly the size of a gumball, so they sometimes
show up in the damnedest places, like downtown Kitchener. All they need to 
get coaxed into urban areas is some sort of greenery to munch on as they 
wander into town (And a derth of armed hunters). Southern Ontario is fairly
heavily urbanised, but we still have a healthy population of deer, except for
the ones who wander onto the 401.

								James Nicoll

	
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: New Predator II Question
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:34:17 GMT


In article <11829@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> terryl@sail.LABS.TEK.COM writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.153752.21713@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter) writes:
>
>>Um, I don't think it matters.  I think the point here was to show that
>>although the Predator is an evil villain, 'cause he kills people, he's
>>at least an *honorable* villain, because he doesn't hunt pregnant 
>>women.
>
>     Ditto what Steve says, with a little more explanation. The "Predator"
>realizes that he *must* perpetuate the species that *he* loves to hunt; thus,
>no killing of the species that are "with child", so to speak....

With 5 billion of his favorite species on this planet, I don't think our
predator buddy has the slightest chance of even causing a dent in our
population, even if he does shoot a few pregnant ones.

The "honor" explanation makes a lot of sense, though.
From: seltzer@ics.enet.dec.com (Richard Seltzer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: re: Taxi Driver
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:36:12 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In recently watching Taxi Driver on videotape, I was struck by the fact that 
the treatment felt dated.  In retrospect, it seems that a number of the best 
movies from the late 60s and early 70s had indeterminate endings, 
where the main character winds up in approximately the same kind of position 
at the end as at the beginning.  It seems that those same movies if done today 
would end quite differently, and decisively.

I think of The Graduate.  If made today it would probably end with the 
emotional high when Dustin Hoffman runs out of the church with the girl.  
But made when it was, Mike Nichols kept it going for several more painful 
moments, as the two of them sitting next to each other on the bus begin 
to realize that nothing has been resolved, and stare blankly ahead.

If Thelma and Louise had been made then and not now, it would have ended with 
them escaping off into the desert to an uncertain fate, and with unclear 
uncertain in their own minds whether they should have done what they have 
done, and unclear about what to do with the rest of their lives if they 
manage to survive.  Instead, we have them take off dramatically over the cliff.

In the earlier period, people went through adventures and came out the same as 
they were before, and that was a source of angst, which was often the point of 
the film (what's it all about, Alfie?)  In current films, characters are 
fundamentally changed by what they go through, and there are clear winners and 
losers.

Have others out there noticed this difference in style then and 
now?


Richard Seltzer  seltzer@ics.dec.com
-- or --      ...!decwrl!ics.dec.com!seltzer
-- or --      seltzer%ics.enet.dec.com
From: crwth@edsi.plexus.COM (James Meek)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: SOTL questions...
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:02:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Apr14.050247.19075
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI

joe@archsci.arch.su.oz.au (Joe Nappa) writes:

>2. in the novel Lecter tells Starling that he once ate a census
>taker's liver "with fava beans and a big Amarone". Now in the
>film, the Amarone (an Italian red wine, made from late picked
>grapes in Veneto region of Italy, very high in alcohol and quite
>suitable with red meats -- liver included, I guess) is swapped
>for the more well known Chianti. BTW, an aspect of Lecter that's
>left out of the film is his great reputation as a gourmet writer
>-- pity, because the irony of this is, dare I say it, delicious.
>Nevermind this omission. What is galling is that once again
>Hollywood has decided that an audience made to think as little as
>possible is a happy and contented audience. This sucks, frankly.
>The only real excuse is that, perhaps, the power of Lecter's
>statement would have been diluted if one is left puzzled by
>something he says. As a gourmet Lecter would probably avoid
>Chianti: it's become something of a trendy wine over the last ten
>years -- popular more for its straw-wrapped flask than any great
>quality as a wine (there are some great Chiantis, but they're 
>hard to find outside Italy).

One nitpicky objection:  Since Lecter has been in prison for ten
years, and most likely ate the census taker's liver in 1980 
(although we shouldn't rule out 1970), the fact that Cianti has 
grown trendy within the last ten years (according to your post), 
then that last fact is an invalid reason to say that Lecter 
wouldn't have drunk Cianti.

One larger objection:  Look.  It's a movie.  We all have our own 
areas of expertise, and we can all nitpick like hell over small 
details that most people don't realize are at least fishy but we 
see.  But, simply, most people in the movie's audience know that 
Cianti is a wine, while most people have probably not heard of 
Amarone.  Rather than have half the audience react to the line by 
saying to itself, "Gee, is Amarone a dessert/sauce/side 
dish/wine/type of salad/what?" Ted Tally (or Demme, or even 
Hopkins) went for the more familiar, if less gourmetically 
correct, choice of Chianti.

Face a little reality--American movies produced in the studio 
system are, and have always been, designed with an economic 
audience in mind.  Compromises are made that needn't be in 
literature (or pop fiction), for example.

To dismiss "The Silence of the Lambs" because of a wine choice is 
like dismissing "Dead Poet's Society" because it misreads Whitman.
(I like SotL, I can't stand DPS, in part because of the Whitman, 
but for other reasons, and when I tell people why I think DPS is 
an objectively poor movie, I DON'T use the poetry as an example.)

James Meek
crwth@edsi.plexus.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: dyrda@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (The Conservative)
Subject: Re: New Predator II Question
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:57:09 GMT

>Um, I don't think it matters.  I think the point here was to show that
>although the Predator is an evil villain, 'cause he kills people, he's
>at least an *honorable* villain, because he doesn't hunt pregnant 
>women.  (We also learn around that time that he only kills people who
>are armed.)

  I think we learned he doesn't kill unarmed people in the first movie. 
Schwarzy even states this, but it turned into a vendetta between the
two. Also why do people view the predators as villians. I think they
were here for the sport of it. Also the predators maybe getting pissed
at earth seeing as though two have already bit the dust, maybe another
sequal will show this by Predators going nuts and attacking everywhere
and everyone. :-)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Richard Dyrda                    |  o    | " I can't answer that on the 
Idaho National Engr. Laboratory  | <(    |  grounds that it will incri- 
c/o School of Nuclear Engineering|  [\.  |  minate me!" Carlos Marcello  
       dyr@wsewc.INEL.gov        | FORE! | 151 times said at Senate, 1961    
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: gmcmanus@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Gary McManus)
Subject: Re: THUNDERHEART
Organization: CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma, Norman
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:23:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.031528.9839@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> leeper@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Mark R. Leeper) writes:
>> 
>> ;         And the Indians who have been handed so many injustices deserve a
>> ; better story.  The motive for the murder that brings FBI man Ray Lavo
>> ; (played by Val Kilmer) to the Ogalala Sioux reservation is also one that has
>> ; been used too many times.  
>> 
>>   Really?  Let's have some examples...
>
>What, of murders connected with a real estate deal?  Lots of times on
>TV.  Then there was V. I. WARSHAVSKI, ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST,
>JEAN DE FLORETTE (That may be pushing it.  There wasn't actually a
>deal.), THE TWO JAKES and CHINATOWN (if I remember right).  I am sure
>that there are a bunch more that are not coming to mind.
>
Yeah, you're right.  You just gave 4 examples out of all the movies ever
made, and then said some "that are not coming to mind".  Of course there
has been some of these, but you could say this about almost any plot
in the movies out there.  This seems awfully trivial to me.


Gary McManus

Xref: sparky rec.arts.movies:13230 rec.arts.sf.movies:3104
From: hudson@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (David Hudson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Jennifer Connelly
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:21:53 PDT

In article <1992Apr7.105314.1@skcla.monsanto.com> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.213535.23560@cs.cornell.edu>, parekhs@cs.cornell.edu (Sujay S. Parekh) writes:
>> Hello, movie-lovers!! Those of you who have seen Rocketeer might
>> remember the heroine Jennifer Connelly. One of my friends has an
>> incredible crush on her, and I was wondering how to find out her
>> address? Would Walt Disney studios tell me if I asked?
>> 
>> Also, out of curiosity, has she appeared in other movies?
>> 
>
>Jennifer Connelly debuted in "Labyrinth", the George Lucas/Jim Henson
>fantasy film featuring David Bowie, many muppets, and lots of great sets and
>characters designed by Froud and inspired by "Where the Wild Things Are".
>
>A Must See (IMHO)
>
	Actually, Jennifer Connelly debuted in _Once Upon a Time In
America_(1984?), directed by Sergio Leone. 
	In the movie, she portrays a young girl (around 12) that 
appears in a flashback of the main character (played by Robert 
De Niro as an adult, but I forget the child actor's name).  

				Dave Hudson

D
D
De Niro as an adult).  
-- 
David Hudson                         hudson@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu
"Society is a hole. It makes me lie to my friends." - Sonic Youth
"Hate was just a failure of imagination." - Graham Greene
"Dear Baby, Welcome to Dumpsville.  Population: You." - Homer Simpson
From: mary@curlie.UUCP (Mary Lach       )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Megan Follows....howzabout some info?
Keywords: Need some info on what she's done...
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:01:10 GMT
Organization: Not An Organization

virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (Paul "Axel" Virgo) writes:

> 
> 
> This past weekend I was Megan Follows'ed twice over(forgive the stupid pun).
> I caught the Anne of Avonlea/Green Gables episodes and I saw her in "The Chas
> Besides being attractive,spunky, AND Canadian, can anyone tell me what other
> TV Shows/Movies she's been in(reply to the post if this has all been posted
> and talked about before...)
> 
> Thanks in advance(and retreat...)
> -- 
> 
> Paul "Axel" Virgo
> Metters Industries
> Arlington, VA 22202

I know she was in a TV movie with David Morse (from St. Elsewhere)
in which he played a mountain man who abducted her.  She will also 
play Juliet this season at the Stratford Festival in Stratford,
Ontario.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
From: alfa@b23a.ingr.com (laura)
Subject: Familiar face in LM
Summary: name and credits please
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: rec.arts.movies
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:51:29 GMT

Please name the actor who plays the Lawnmower Man.
Anyone got a list of credits?

Thanks!
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: DUNE...A minor classic?
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:39:58 GMT
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science

In article <1992Apr16.000659.25079@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.133650.1480@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dnadams@isis.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes:
>>
>>nyberg@ms.uky.edu (Jack Nyberg) writes:
>>
>> >I just rented David Lynch's DUNE this weekend.  I had seen it when 
>> >it was originally released and remember that I was disappointed.
>>
>>I *loved* it when I saw it the first time, and I still do now...
>...
>>I considered it a "classic" right from the very beginning...
>	Gnarly film fer shur.  I'd rank it up there with Highlander II, 
>Ernest Scared Stupid, and Batman (NOT).
>	I have it on the same videotape as I have LEGEND (Tom Cruise and Mia
		  --------------------------------------
>Sara) -- pretty much two of my favorite movies of all time....

That's funny. IMHO "Dune" is one of these very annoying movies that, if they
were people, could be described as very gifted and wanting at the same time.
The other movie in the fantasy/sci-fi-genre I would describe this way is 
"Legend". 
								M.H.
From: terryl@sail.LABS.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Whatever happened to...
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:02:52 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Apr12.202037.29061@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> gfm@ccs.northeastern.edu (george f mcbay) writes:
>In article <1992Apr04.031941.13805@onetouch.COM>, jwidner@onetouch.COM (Jim Widner) writes:
>
>> Whatever happened to the actor Timothy Hutton.  Seems like he has 
>> faded from film.
>
>	Isn't he the lead in the upcoming "Dark Half"? I could be wrong..


     I have NO idea about that, but he's currently *filming* in Portland, OR.
The movie's name is supposedly called "The Temp", and other than that, I know
absolutely nothing about the film.

     The crew used a park by my health club for filming, and it was blocked
off Tuesday, April 14....
From: panda@syrinx.umd.edu (Lisa Nyman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Silence of the Lambs
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:19:13 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Apr3.030353.27314@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter) writes:
>
Spoilers ahoy


>Now what *would* have been spooky is if Lecter's escape was kept
>secret from us and Starling, until the end..when we suddenly see
>him calling from a pay phone...That would provide the element of
>surprise, at least.

Alfred Hitchcock once said something to the effect that if you just
blow up a room, people are surprised but there is no suspense. But
if you tell people that there is a bomb and they have to sit and
wait for the explosion, then there is suspense which has a better
effect than the former option.  So, we know Lecter is out there
and just wait for something to happen (though it really didn't)...

-- 
Lisa Wolfisch Nyman         "Life is too short to wear ugly underwear."
panda@syrinx.umd.edu                    
Just remember, geographers do it in places unknown to the general public.
New from Dweeb Publishers: Memoirs of a Workstation Widow, Oh the Agony of It
From: bill@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Bill Ferreira)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Help find some music in "The Omen"
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:07:21 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England

bill@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Bill Ferreira) writes:

>napalm@next07wor.wam.umd.edu (Warren L. Mohn) writes:

>>In article <1992Apr14.122809.3032@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>  
>>bill@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Bill Ferreira) writes:
>>> tjp@jyu.fi (Topi Paavola) writes:
>>> 
>>> >In the film "The Omen" there was a really good-sounding classical piece  
>>for
>>> >choir and orchestra, and I'd like to know its composer and name. 

>>> The piece you are talking about is called "Carmina Burrana" and
>>> is by the contemporary(?) composer Carl Orff.
>>> -- 

>>Contemporary? I always thought Carl Orff was late middle ages time span.   
>>I know the manuscript that Carmina Burana is based on is supposedly middle  
>>ages (no one has actually found it).  And the language used in the piece  
>>is latin on the verge of becoming vernacular Italian.  Maybe some music  
>>majors out there can join in the discussion.

>That's why I wrote contemporary with a leading ?, because I didn't really know
>for sure. Perhaps you should write "late middle ages time span" in the
>same manner since you don't seemed to too convinced by your own knowledge either.
>A trip to the library is in order perhaps?

Orff, Carl (b. July 10 1895, d. March 29 1982)

German composer ... in 1937 produced his secular oratorio "Carmina Burana".
Intended to be staged with dance, it was based on a manuscript of medieval
poems.

Source: The Encyclopaedia Britannica

Not quite contemporary (by about 10 years) but not quite "late middle ages time
span" either. However, I suppose that 1895-1982 could possibly pass for
the middle ages in America.


-- 
Bill Ferreira (bill@uk.ac.warwick.dcs)
Dept. of Computer Science,
University of Warwick,
Coventry CV4 7AL, ENGLAND.
From: dan@dworkin.Amber.COM (Daniel Call)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: T2 soundtrack
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:58:03 GMT
Organization: Labyrinth II BBS

joneil@heretix.East.Sun.COM (John O'Neil - SunExpress IR) writes:

> is there a soundtrack for the movie T2?????
> 
> is it good?????

 there is, it's okay, but it doesn't contain any songs not made for the 
movie (Bad to the Bone, You Could be Mine, etc.) just the themes. i liked it 
myself, but try and get it on sale...
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: naked ellen barkin (was Re: Eroticism without nudity)
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:13:09 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr13.151324.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu> captiveall@mscf.med.upenn.edu (Mr. 14's Ubiquitous Drama) writes:

>which begs the obvious question, why would an actor/actress use a body
>double in one movie, yet be willing to "bare all" in another?  does it
>have to do with "degrees" of nudity? ("i'll do that, but i most
>definitely won't do *that*!).

Or maybe she was less self-conscious?  Maybe she'd lost/gained weight
between movies?  Maybe she had changed her opinion about nudity in movies
between them?


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | If winning is not important, then Commander,
Georgia Institute of Technology  |    why keep score?
Office of Information Technology | 
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |                     - Worf -
From: climiepd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Delbert)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Jennifer Connelly
Keywords: Jennifer Connelly, Walt Disney, warlord-able sigs
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:10:27 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

cs911409@ariel.yorku.ca (RICHARD DAVID ASPINALL) writes:

>In article <uslave.702625555@mcl> uslave@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (KJS @ucsb.mcl) write
>>In <1992Apr6.234001.20018@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Capt. Frank A. Lauro) writes:
>>>teg@uunet!tellab5!odgate (Todd Grinnell) writes:
>>>>Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) also writes re JC:

>>>>>Ms. Connelly appear in a recent film called "The Hot Spot"
>>>>>with Don Johnson of Miami Vice fame... in this film she does
>>>>>some nude or topless scenes.

>	One topless scene and the net goes berserk.  Sheesh

Has anyone seen tthis film "The HOt Spot" in Britain ?
I've seen all her other stuff here...
-- 
---------------------------------------------------
'Later now, I'm telling Tiffany,
 "I'll let you go, Shhh...,"                        Delbert aka Peter Climie..
 and I'm stroking her face' -American Psycho        climiepd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies