HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Federal Solution & Equality : North Cyprus vs. South Cyprus
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:18:00 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C15A2M.2v7@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:

>Indeed this is so.  Go back and try to remember when the Turkish Cypriots
>withdrew from the government.  Did anyone force them to leave?  What other

"So what do you do?", ask I. Do you live by it?


 Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. 
 Date : 1 January, 1964. 

 IL GIARNO (Italy)
 
 THEY ARE TURK-HUNTING, THEY WANT TO EXTERMINATE THEM.

 Discussions start in London; in Cyprus terror continues. Right now we
 are witnessing the exodus of Turks from the villages. Thousands of people
 abandoning homes, land, herds; Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This 
 time, the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the bust of Plato do not suffice to 
 cover up barbaric and ferocious behaviors.

 Article by Giorgo Bocca, Correspondent of Il Giorno
 Date: 14 January 1964

 DAILY HERALD (London)

 AN APPALLING SIGHT

And when I came across the Turkish homes they were an appalling sight.
Apart from the walls, they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm bomb
attack could have created more devastation. I counted 40 blackened brick
and concrete shells that had once been homes. Each house had been deliberately
fired by petrol. Under red tile roofs which had caved in, I found a twisted
mass of bed springs, children's conts and cribs, and ankle deep grey
ashes of what had once been chairs, tables and wardrobes.

In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 
wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot homes. From
this village more than 100 Turkish Cypriots had also vanished.In neither village
did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house.


 DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
 
 GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE

 Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the
 Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found
 crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were
 brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three 
 more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could
 not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to 
 locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Freedom fighter or Terrorist
Date: 26 Jan 1993 07:08:31 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu

In article <5010@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.233141.19278@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>First of all, John, why do you use my name when you're not quoting anything
>>I said?
>Maybe its love Noora ;-)

I guess it is love. Some women are just jealous, what do 
you think Nora? ;-)

I love you Nora - JLE  :)))))))))))
Sometimes men that are freedom fighter supporters can love
women that are terrorist supporters.  :)  

But I've never heard of women that are freedom fighter
supporters that can love men that are terrorist supporters.  :)  

(Just teasing both of you :) SMILE )

>The other Noor(a) ...
>;-)  Anisa

jle
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: ethnic jews
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:32:19 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

to: Josh Backon

> Would you agree with me, Josh, that both Israel and Judaism seem
> to be organized primarily around the agenda and interests of
> ethnic Jews,

 JB> What the hell are "ethnic" Jews ?  Checking HLA antigens ??
 JB> Mcguire, what did you major in: physical anthropology ??
 JB> RASSENGESETZE ??

Ethnic Jews would be Jews who are Jews by reason of their
ethnicity rather than religion.

For instance, David Ben-Gurion was an atheist. If he wasn't an
ethnic Jew, what was he? He certainly wasn't a Jew in the
religious sense.

Or take Soviet Jews: most of them have been atheists for
generations. Most of them have had no contact with Jewish culture
for generations. And yet Israel still defines them as Jews on the
basis of their bloodlines. It seems fair to refer to Soviet Jews
as ethnic Jews. If not, why not?
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Our style betrays us.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26419 talk.politics.soviet:10850 soc.culture.greek:12682 soc.culture.europe:11511 soc.history:11061 soc.culture.soviet:12521 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1400 soc.culture.croatia:529
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "PETER VOROBIEFF" is amazing, and holy "liars" abound.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:41:44 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan21.171046.31651@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>Well... First, the mudlu won't post anything as a followup 
>to my message, because its coordinator already knows better
>NOT to argue with me, after I had some fun with it in news.admin.policy.

Is this moron for real? If that does ever happen, look out the window
and see if there is a new "USSR" in the east. Now that you mention it,
I have a better advice: stop reading news on this net and return to the 
zoo where you were born. Well, the next chapter in this story is carried 
by the newspaper and television.


According to Dikran Kevorkyan (Secretary General of the Armenian Patriarchal
Board of Consultation, Turkey):[1]

"The Armenians started rebellions to establish an independent state within
 the Ottoman Empire between 1878 and 1915, cooperated with the Russians in
 Eastern Anatolia behind the Turkish lines, caused great damage to the
 Ottoman armies and threatened the security of the region."

"It is also historical fact that carts had to go over the ice which covered
 the bodies of tens of thousands of Turkish soldiers frozen to death in the
 east of Anatolia, because their supply lines had been cut off by the 
 Armenians."

"Some of the enheartened Armenians armed themselves, worked for the
 Russian army especially cutting off the Turkish military supply lines,
 and, when they found the courage, committed incredible atrocities,
 murders, intimidation and forced deportation against the Turks, with whom
 they had lived together in peace for hundreds of years."

[1] Dikran Kevorkyan, "International Terrorism and the Drug Connection," 
    Ankara University Press, 1984, pp. 95-102. 

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: John E Hinton <jhinton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: seeking books about Hamas & Hizballah
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:30:18 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I am looking for books, secondary and primary sources, about Hamas and
Hizballah. Can anyone suggest any and tell me how to acquire them?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: islam & ethnicity
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:10:46 GMT

"wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com# writes:

#To: Danny Keren
#
#You accused me of ignorance about Islam thus:
#
# DK> Yet you know nothing about the Bible or the most basic
# DK> facts about Islam (such as it passing from the side of the
# DK> father).
#
#Waleed Muhanna, who may know more about Islam than you do,
#replied:
#
# WM> This is not true.  You should get your facts straight.  One
# WM> is not considered a Muslim just because his/her father
# WM> happens to be a Muslim. A child of a Muslim is assumed to be
# WM> a Muslim, just like the child of a Christian can be assumed
# WM> to be Christian. But, by definition, you are a Muslim if you
# WM> believe in the Islamic faith and uphold/perform the
# WM> *religious* duties of Islam (e.g., prayers, zakah);
# WM> otherwise you are not.  A non- practicing Muslims can
# WM> *claim* to be a Muslim, but that doesn't make him/her so.
# WM> Anyone can become a Muslim and there are no formal
# WM> procedures for conversion.
#
#So who has a better grasp of the facts about Islam, you or
#Waleed?

Well, I answered Waleed on the net already, but will answer again:
there is no difference between the two religions in that sense,
because the child of a Moslim father is considered a Moslem, and
one who is not such, has to convert. There is a formal procedure
for conversion, although, I agree, it is much easier and shorter
than conversion to Judaism.

-Danny Keren.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26239 soc.culture.arabic:6910 soc.culture.lebanon:5649
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Goof)
Subject: Re: islam & ethnicity
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:00:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.1777.23087@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>To: Karen Lee Givon
>
>>According to Israel, a Jew is defined by his or her matrilineal
>>bloodline. Thus a Soviet Jew who is an atheist, and who may have
>>descended from parents or grandparents who are atheists, is still
>>a Jew.
>
> KG> Most of these Soviet Jews did not have a choice in the
> KG> matter.
>
>But Jews also played a major, activist role in the creation of
>the Soviet Union, did they not? Many of them occupied high
>positions in the Soviet regime by choice, not because a gun was
>held at their head.

	I would still assert that the majority were forced to be
	atheists.  Just because some Jews embrassesd the Soviet
	govt.  doesn't mean that all Jews did.  By this same 
	reasoning one could say that because some African tribal
	leaders liked the slave trade, all Africans liked becoming
	slaves.


>
>And many, if not most, of the founders and early leaders of
>Israel, like David Ben-Gurion, were deeply immersed by choice in
>the ideology of atheistic communism or socialism. The goyim
>didn't force them to hold their beliefs; quite the contrary. Many
>of these messianic Marxists tried to ram their beliefs down the
>throats of others.
>
>And yet within the Jewish system of identification, they are
>still considered to be Jews on the basis of their bloodlines. One
>is led inexorably to the conclusion that Jews in significant part
>constitute an ethnic group in the biological sense.
>
>In no way would any Christian denomination that I know identify
>as a Christian the offspring of Christian parents who chose the
>path of atheism and Marxism. Christianity is a belief system, not
>an ethnic identification.

	And thus a major difference in Judaism and Christianity. What's
	your point other than criticizing Judaism, which seems to be
	the only thing you do around here.

	Geoff

>---
>  OLX 3.01 31-2557  lurching from one messianic lamppost to the next
>--
>Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
>


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:38:25 GMT

"wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>  writes:

# Judaism is a belief system which reinforces the ethnic character
# of Jews, through its biological symbology and restrictions on
# intermarriage.

Kindly stop posting Nazi propaganda on the net. It would be greatly
appreciated. Many posters have already asked you this.

This newsgroup is supposed to be open forum for people to know
each other and exchange ideas, not for the reincarnation of
Goebbels-like trash.


-Danny Keren.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26346 soc.culture.turkish:15112 soc.rights.human:5017 soc.culture.greek:12621 soc.culture.europe:11468
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: 'Women and children had been scalped,' said Assad Faradzev.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:52:54 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <ns.727609037@csd.cri.dk> ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru) writes:

>Control: cancel <sera.727605071@zuma.UUCP>

"Withdrawal halted;  Armenians Blamed...
 More video footage and reports from Khocaly paint a grim picture of 
 widespread civilian deaths and mutilation...
 One woman's feet appeared to have been bound..."
 Paul Quinn-Judge
 The Boston Globe, 3/4/92


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Wayne in crisis
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Distribution: talk
Date: 23 Jan 93 12:51:08 CST

In article <1993Jan22.1777.23086@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:


 
> What I see is a deep pool of irrationality and flagrant double
		  ==========================
> standards on the part of many Zionists here. 


	Wayne, you are the only poster here that I'm aware of who's
	been proven to be irrational by the strictest measures
	of the scientific term of "rationality", and based on
	your own posts. How about some modesty, please?


Their behavior is
> alienating me, and I know for a fact that it is profoundly
> alienating many other people in the world. The overall effect is
> more pathetic than outrageous: they give the impression that they
> can't stand on their own two feet as adults and survive a free
> and open give-and-take of views. They need to rely on any crutch
> they can find to prop them up or any handy diversion to turn
> attention away from substantive issues.


	Now what do you think people think about you?
                                             

Noam


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26332 soc.culture.arabic:6957 soc.culture.iranian:12061
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: islam & ethnicity
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:56:52 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast

<1993Jan25.030623.27809@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

You simply deleted my questions:
1) Was Rushdie sentenced to death *because he is considered a Moslem*,
   which makes his crime worse?
2) If the answer to 1) is "yes", why was he considered a Moslem?

	While awaiting answers from Mr. Muhanna, allow me to
	offer my opinions (based in part on email correspondence
	with Muslims).

	1) Yes, Rushdie's "crime" was deemed worse because he was
	   a Muslim.  Muslims have a special obligation not to
	   abandon, insult, or mock Islam.  It may also be true 
	   that an Islamic state would have punished Rushdie
	   had he been Christian, but I don't believe the penalty
           would have been death.  I would like to hear any opposing
           opinions on this matter.
	2) I believe others will consider a person to be Muslim if
           they know the person has been brought up in a Muslim
	   home or if they know the person is a convert to Islam.
           Could Rushdie have been spared all this grief had he
	   publicly renounced Islam before writing The Satanic
	   Verses?  That is not clear, because the penalty for
           renouncing Islam can also be death, according to the
           hadith posted earlier under the title "Islam and
	   apostacy".  

-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: British troops and the Kuwaiti deportations
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:02:51 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

It seems that the oh-so-very democratic Kuwaitis are not satisfied with 
the mass deportations of Palestinians, they are also intent on deporting
massive numbers of other folk, including lord-knows-how-many "badoun".
Unfortunately for the Brains Trust that runs that god-forsaken little
hole, they forgot that the people they're deporting made up a good portion
of the Kuwaiti army. You remember the Kuwaiti army - it's the outfit whose
fearless leaders high-tailed it out of town as soon as Saddam and his nasty
boys said "boo!". Now the Kuwaitis are requesting British troops to be 
stationed in Kuwait. I suppose that with the reduced manpower, they figure
that there's a chance that some of their pals might have to do a bit of
shooting, and they'd prefer to have some palefaced foreigners do their 
dirty jobs for them. Keep dreaming, Kuwaitis!!






-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

Unauthorised access is a criminal offence under The Computer Misuse Act 1990.
If you are a British Airways employee, disconnect NOW.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Recalling in sorrow the silent memory of 2.5 million Muslims.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:50:03 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan23.013750.16518@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>No foul mudlu ratf**k followup followed. #*)

See you make a fool of yourself in the current discussion. Now this
is of some significance.

Source: McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman 
        Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York University Press, 
        New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.


Muslim population losses (McCarthy's Tables 7.10 and 7.11)

Province	Estimated	Estimated 	Proportion
		1912 pop. 	pop. loss	lost
				1912-1922
---------       ----------     ----------       ----------
Adana		   573,256	 42,511		    7%
Ankara		 1,263,199	104,823		    8%
Aydin		 1,734,179	333,230		   19%
Biga		   165,508	 24,793		   15%
Bitlis		   408,703	169,748		   42%
Diyarbakir	   598,985	158,043		   26%
Erzurum		   804,388	248,695		   31%
Haleb		   562,197	 50,838		    9%
Huedavendigar	 1,598,583	160,612		   10%
Izmit		   271,751	 12,039		    4%
Kastamonu	 1,305,279	224,679		   17%
Konya		 1,542,331	418,442		   27%
Mamuretuelaziz	   564,164	 89,310		   16%
Sivas		 1,196,300	180,413		   15%
Trabon		 1,178,655	 49,907		    4%
Van		   313,322	194,167		   62%

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: EXPELLED PALESTINIANS INCLUDE ACTIVISTS AND TEACHERS
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:11:44 GMT

In article <74302@cup.portal.com> L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno) writes:
# 	Copied w/o permission from:

# 	The Baltimore Sun, January 23, 1993
 
# 	EXPELLED PALESTINIANS INCLUDE ACTIVISTS AND TEACHERS

	[ rest deleted - dlm ]

	So what?  How would you respond to a headline in the 1940's that
read:

	HITLER'S NAZIS INCLUDE ACTIVISTS AND TEACHERS
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26220 talk.politics.soviet:10699 soc.culture.greek:12487 soc.culture.europe:11388 soc.history:10944 soc.culture.turkish:14904
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:55:50 CST

In article <74349@cup.portal.com>, L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno) writes:


			[.....]

 
> 	Therefore, how does subjecting its Palestinian minority to all
> of the various dehumanizing factors in the occupied territories ensure
> its defense against those that would wish to "push the Jews into the
> sea?"


	This is the closest thing I've ever seen to seven mistakes in
	one sentence.  Israel's Palestinian minority is not in the
	occupied territories, therefore they cannot be subjected to
	anything there. The Palestinians in the territories are not 
	Israel's minority, and they are certainly not subjected to 
	"_all_ of the various" bla bla bla...


	Now when exactly did you stop beating your wife?

                         
> --Louis

Noam
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: islam & ethnicity
Date: 23 Jan 93 07:09:42 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>Just want to take this opportunity to say, we think you are wonderful,
>Waheed.  :-))
   ^--
      |

Err ... Waleed ... :-)

Afwan



 **       *         *       * 
 __.      *         *      * * 
(_/(_____(_)___|___(_)____|_|_|
             ** 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26417 soc.culture.greek:12680 soc.rights.human:5030
From: an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI)
Subject: Spontaneous Violence Will Not Work!
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:09:11 GMT

you can only bring them to their senses
by cutting off their major financial support;
that will bring them back to the table in earnest;

use video-cameras and non-violent acts of civil disobediance
designed to provoke an ill-considered, brutal reaction;

can you get hit without hitting back?
can you do it for the cameras?
are you even listening?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26362 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10738 soc.culture.europe:11474 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1383 soc.culture.croatia:515
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:57:52 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <4674@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>But if "objecting leting the Arabs  murdering even a single Jew each
>month"  , means being a  " right wing fanatic like Rehavam Zevi" then
>I am happy with being defined so.

Gideon:

You ARE a right wing fanatic.  The fact that there is tension in
the occupied territories and that Israelis were targeted only
justifies your position, for which you try to legitimize as acceptable.

Anisa