HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: 3 year old burn victim goes home
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:52:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.women,soc.men
Organization: Murasami Labs

rivero@mdcbbs.com wrote:

> |   Cal me silly, call me barbaric, call me irresponsible, but it occurs |
> |  to me that torching a small child justifies the death penelty in the  |
> |  slowest and most painful manner allowed by law.                       |

I much perfer the Saudi-style of public execution. A nick in the ribs,
a head jerk, and a quick, but rather ghastly death. 

I've been burned, relatively minor compared to that. But it doesn't require

much thought to bring the pain back. And even as a memory, it's quite 
agonizing.

K'Char
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Women are inferior
Date: 6 Sep 92 05:06:46 GMT
Distribution: na

Cathi Cook writes

+ Thank you for this reminder that all over the country, children are
+ returning to college and introducing a whole new crop of freshmen
+ into the GPA-killing world of usenet.

Yep. And the parking just went-to-hell-in-a-handbasket. Gad.

K'Char
Xref: sparky soc.women:16209 talk.rape:2397
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Re: Feminists ignore Cosmetics?....Why don't you guys get a JOB?
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:27:07 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

In soc.women, sklautky@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky) writes:

   >So, I have a question for you feminist or feminist-leaning
   >women.  Are you bothered that a man appreciates the look of a
   >woman in makeup better than without makeup?

I doubt if anyone would label me a feminist but here is my 2 cents anyway.
I am bothered by men who want their wives/lovers to refrain from makeup so
they will be less attractive to others; men who claim they prefer non-madeup
women yet are allured by the ones who are; etc.  I wear the amount of makeup
that *I* like unless I feel like impressing a particular person -- they need
to be honest about their actual preferences.  If a man actually prefers the
tammy look, he would be better off with someone else, but it does not bother
me in the least.  If he has told me he prefers no makeup and then sees me
without, he can modify his previous statement if necessary - no problem -
how can he know until he sees me many ways?
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: Missed Opportunity....
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:33:07 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli

In article <1992Sep9.114410.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
>In article <!hsn12n@lynx.unm.edu>, bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes:
>> Michael...a person with *no* brain activity isn't alive.  There are
>> many systems within the brain...a comatose person has some brain
>> activity going on.

>> If this hypothetical disease you speak of causes complete cessation of
>> brain activity, then that person truly is dead, not comatose.

>  Okay, then, even knowing that brain activity will resume in 9 months, 
>after the desease runs it's course, according to you it's still okay to 
>yank the plug on the life support right now, because the potential of a 
>thing is not the same as the thing itself, and that turning off the life
>support right now is not murder.

I'm saying that this "hypothetical" disease you suggest is completely
ludicrous since such a thing couldn't happen.

The body would be fairly rotted in 9 months without any blood coursing
through the circulatory system keeping the cells alive.

You are suggesting we consider the ethical consequences of something
that could not possibly happen.

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
Xref: sparky soc.women:16355 soc.men:16184
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Missed Opportunity....
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:44:10 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero

In article <!hsn12n@lynx.unm.edu>, bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes:
> Michael...a person with *no* brain activity isn't alive.  There are
> many systems within the brain...a comatose person has some brain
> activity going on.
> 
> If this hypothetical disease you speak of causes complete cessation of
> brain activity, then that person truly is dead, not comatose.
> 

  Okay, then, even knowing that brain activity will resume in 9 months, 
after the desease runs it's course, according to you it's still okay to 
yank the plug on the life support right now, because the potential of a 
thing is not the same as the thing itself, and that turning off the life
support right now is not murder.

  Just how would you explain that to the family who's waiting for
the end of the 9 months?





<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|    In the 1940's and 1950's, Hollywood made a lot of tacky cheap films |
|  about people who would murder their relations for money, or to simply |
|  get them out of the way so the perpetrator could have an easier life. |
|  Seems to me a wife who kills off her kid despite the husband's        |
|  desire for a child is being every bit as callous and self serving     |
|  as those long ago villians.                                           |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.sex.wizards
From: zukor@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Karen Zukor)
Subject: Re: How to relieve menstural cramp
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:38:42 GMT

>A sufferer writes:

>>There seem to be many techniques, valid or not, used to relieve this monthly
>>ritual of pain.  I suffer from a paralizing one almost every month.
>>Please share with me (e-mail please, I do not feel like discussin this in
>>public) what you know, and what you heard of.  I am sick of taking pain
>>killers.

         I have heard those suggestions about exercise and eliminating  
         caffeine, and I know they help some women, but they
         do nothing for me.  What kind of pain killers do you take?
         Ibruprofen in large quantities (800 mg) is my answer.

         Karen Zukor
         e-mail:   zukor@logos.jpl.nasa.gov 
Xref: sparky soc.women:16382 soc.men:16211
From: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:48:11 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Followup-To: soc.women
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <1992Sep09.015619.1497@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>Should she become pregnant, she agrees to notify him as soon as possible.
>If he does not desire to be a father, then a divorce will be obtained
>under [insert fair conditions here] and he shall not be required to   
>provide support for the child. 

This clause would not be legal anywhere in the United States in any form under
any circumstances.  The rationalization is that child support is owed to the
child, and that the parents cannot relinquish the rights of the child.

Of course, any examination of the family law system beyond the purely 
superficial shows that the government doesn't give two straws about the 
welfare of the child.  They simply use the idea as a justification.

-EMP
Xref: sparky soc.women:16488 soc.men:16328
From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Fun with probabilities
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:47:49 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: The Piranha Club

# /Consumers Report claimed that condoms are 85% effective.  In other words,
# /over one year of using condoms, there is 15% probability for an unwanted
# /pregnancy.  In 7 years, the expectation is more than 1...

In article <1992Sep11.092542.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
>In article <919@nazgul.UUCP>, bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>> Ooops! Over seven years, the probability of having an unwanted pregnancy
>> is *NOT* .15*7, but is 1 - .85^7, or 68%. Probabilities cannot be more
>> than 1.

Please open a book in introduction to Probability 101 and 
check the mathematical definition of "expectation."
Xref: sparky soc.women:16201 soc.men:16009
From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 02:52:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.025255.4014@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:
>kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes...
>JK>  I don't think the man has a right to know if the woman feels the best
>JK>  action for her situation is to abort.
>

 [ deletions ]

>
>And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say that in my own
>situation, if the woman had *not* been so respecting as to tell me before,
>but in fact had not only told me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!)
>or more, I probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
>stood.
>
>You can call it "male violence against women," but how would *you* feel if
>someone deliberately kept something from *you* for such a long time?  (like,
>for instance, husband had an affair, etc?).  You *might* even be angry enough
>to be driven to violence as well, especially if the delay had been long, so
>before condemning me for making such a strong and unambiguous statement, please
>consider the context within which I made it.
>
>---
>Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
>ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
>(416) 322-7876
>---
> * SLMR 2.1a * The Borg Hard Drive - Your files will be assimilated.


 You proved my point well enough.  Pregnancy is a physical threat to the
 woman's health and life - and so are some men.  If I became impregnated
 by a violent man that I was trying to escape - I'd sure as hell not tell
 him about the pregnancy nor the abortion... ever.
   
 Your last sentence sounds like you expect to be forgiven if you murder
 a woman who aborted your baby.  Sometimes, in the anti-abortion debate,
 I get the feeling that the fetus has a higher status - because it just
 might be a male...  If a woman had kept the abortion of a female fetus
 from you, would you only beat her up a little instead of murdering her?

 Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall

        "Giving power and money to the government is like giving 
         whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."  

		- P.J. O'Rourke, former gulf war correspondant, summing
		up what he learned during two years of research on how
		our government functions.

Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Steve Balogh (+61 3 565 4747))
Subject: Re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Organization: Monash University, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:27:27 GMT

In article <Bu6tFA.K57@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>
>                                                            Why don't
>we allow the participants to state their interests in marrying and
>be bound by what they've agreed to -- as long as, like any other contract,
>it is within certain bounds?

The trouble is that many people don't know what they will want to be doing and
what their needs will be in 2 or 3 years let alone 10 years. People change their
minds over time. Perhaps many problems would not be so bad if couples tried to
help each other rather than helping themselves. If the husband found joy in
pleasing his wife, and vice versa, they would probably have much fewer problems.

People need to adapt and make compromises and find it pleasant to please others.

Now... who was the person with instructions on how to get to Utopia? :-)

Regards,
         Steve

----_--_-_-_--_-__-_------_-__---_-___-_----_-____-_-_--__-_--_--___-_-_-_--__-_
Steve Balogh  VK3YMY   (Maths G.14)   | steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University, Clayton Campus     |      37 54'38.8"S  145 07'47.1"E ...ICBM
Wellington Road, Clayton.  	      |      +61 3 565 4747 Voice (Office)
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA. 3168	      |      +61 3 565 4746 Fax
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Re: Biological Sex Differences? ("Women only" excusable ?)
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:23:41 GMT
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA

In article <crtn0rm.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
    >From which one can conclude either:
    >A.     The SAT tests are biased in favor of men,
    >                       or
    >B.    Grades given in college math courses are biased in favor
    >      of women.

As for B, I had to take 1 math instructor (engineering department) to higher
authorities because the grades on my exams were lower than the grades on a
similar exam from a male student.  His 'explanation' was that women did not
belong in this department.  The college took care of that one case since it
was so flagrant but students are at the mercy of the teacher.
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: Fun with probabilities
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:25:09 GMT

In article <919@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
)In article <715965054@lear.cs.duke.edu> gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel) writes:
)/Consumers Report claimed that condoms are 85% effective.  In other words,
)/over one year of using condoms, there is 15% probability for an unwanted
)/pregnancy.  In 7 years, the expectation is more than 1...
)
)Ooops! Over seven years, the probability of having an unwanted pregnancy
)is *NOT* .15*7, but is 1 - .85^7, or 68%. Probabilities cannot be more
)than 1.

Yeah, but Hillel said 'expectation' rather than 'probability'.
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Male/Female Wage Differences
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:57:01 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Sep4.181149.20211@news.ysu.edu> ad815@yfn.ysu.edu (John S. Kennedy) writes:
>
>I ran across this message on Tri-State Online and I thought it might be
>worthy of some comment:
> 
>>... and that women make 40 to 60 cents on the dollar for what a
>>man makes.
>> 
>>--Caren
> 
> 
>With alot of my friends, counting alimony and child support, the woman
>makes about $1.10 to every $1 that the man makes.
> 
>                John
>-- 
>** John S. Kennedy (513) 541-3078 axinar@tso.uc.edu 72217.416@compuserve.com

OK, I'll bite.  I gross $22.90 per hour.  I'm underpaid for a person
with my qualifications.  I recently turned down even the consideration
of a job offer in France that paid $45 per hour + per diem, because I'm
involved in a divorce/custody battle (that if finally getting over
with).  After child support is taken out, I net about $1500 per month.

My ex2b (soon just ex-) makes $7.50 per hour.  After she receives my
child support, she nets about $1800 per month.

So, 1800/1500 is the same as 1.2:1.  My ex2b nets $1.20 for every dollar
that I net.  Of course, all that money that I give her is not for her,
but for my children, and when my children turn 18, she will give them
back their share of the equity in their home.  Also, she is forced, by
law, to report where every dollar of that money goes, and she cannot
spend it frivolously.  If those records indicate that she wastes a great
deal of that money and is not spending it on my children, the court will
give me sole custody.  Fortunately my Brooklyn Bridge stock is doing
wonderfully, so I can still keep afloat in the meantime.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM

P.S.  I don't do the smiley thing when it is not funny.
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: bill@nextoy (Bill Schell)
Subject: Re: Feminists ignore Cosmetics?
Keywords: makeup
Organization: SPS
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:02:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.123507.16267@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
Joe.Francis@dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis) writes:
> In article <BtywGK.M6J@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
> slaury@silver.ucs.indiana.edu 
> (Susan Laury) writes:
> >On the other hand, I've known men to claim they like women 
> >without makeup but future statements reveal this to be false.
> 

Hear Hear Hear! - I second this motion of not liking makeup /  
finger/toe-nail polish, HATE THE STUFF!!!! UGH !!! 

It may surprise you, but several studies asking why western men like Asian  
women, in what seems to be a non-proportionally large numbers, is because  
"most" Asian (southeast Asia, NOT JAPAN) don't wear ANY makeup at all!

I've been here (Hong Kong) almost five years now, and find on return trips  
to Europe and USA that women with virtually any make-up basically don't  
get a second glance.

Think about this also: - most makeup companies kill large numbers of  
animals in testing, and are run by men, who've created ad campaigns that  
make women feel inferior if they don't wear makeup... The makeup industry  
is "male dominated" - is anything "male dominated" really good for women?

happy bytes in hong kong - a "cult leader" for NeXT computers and Inline  
Skating... (bill@nextasy.attmail.com)
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: women in engineering ( help..)
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:04:08 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

| All the women programmers and project leaders I have known have been
| absolutely first rate.

I haven't worked with any women project leaders.
The women programmers I've worked with have run the usual gamut between
hopelessly incompetent and extremely capable. Just like the men programmers.
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men,alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
From: mikel@col.hp.com (Mike Lopke)
Subject: Re: Missed Opportunity....
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:52:11 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes:
> 
> Big clue:  drieux wasn't using derisive sarcasm.
> 

...  Analogy about failed audition deleted.

I followed the analogy.  It supported your argument, although I disagree.
My objection to original post refered to the first part.  Thank you for
pointing out to me that this was not intended as sarcasm.  My mistake.
I didn't realize drieux seriously wished to have a Nick_at_Nite style
childhood.  I took it to be a sarcastic comment.

> 
> Again, this isn't sarcasm or derision.  It's merely recognising the
> obvious.  I have had friends who have had miscarriages and I truly did
> feel bad because that child isn't here.  I do not feel silly because
> of my feelings.  However, I recognise that my feelings are due to my
> expectations of what was to be, not of what actually existed.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
> bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary


Given the situation of your friends miscarriage, how do you think
they would have responded to the following?  

> 
> 
> I know what you mean.
> 
> when I was growing up my father dragged us around the world
> to all sorts of places, and to things like politically unstable
> countries where they changed governments by force of arms...
> 
> God I really wish that I could have had a childhood just like
> the one's on Nick_at_Nite where 'Father Knows Best" and we
> could "leave it to beaver" and there were no missed opportunities.
> 

Reguards,
Mike
Xref: sparky soc.women:16498 soc.men:16336
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: 3 year old burn victim goes home
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:00:55 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep10.170600.24662@news.nd.edu>, slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
# One thing that has boggled me is how the criminal justice system seems 
# to lay out harsher sentences for crimes committed against strangers 
# than for crimes committed against family members.  As example, there was
# a news report about a man who killed his daughter, by his own admission 
# to spite his wife.  This was in Florida.  The trial court sentenced him 
# to death.  The appeals court overturned the death sentence because the 
# crime was against a family member!
# 
# Anyone who commits such acts against their children, or any child, 
# should, in my opinion, be subjected to the full force of the law.  
# 
# Sue Larsen

I think the reasoning is that a criminal who does a crime against
a family member is not as dangerous to the general public as someone
who does a crime against a complete stranger.

I don't think the reasoning is correct, though.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:33:44 EDT
From: Fred Houlihan: 814-238-4123, Fax:238-1604 <FTH@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject:    Women and Islam

Perhaps this topic has been covered before in this newsgroup, so if so
please forgive me as I am reading it for the first time.  How do you
feel about the role of a woman in Islamic society?  Especially in a
country where Islamic law rules?  Are you aware of the implications
of that?
From: sam@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:18:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: soc.women

In soc.women, jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:


>What I like about the pre-nuptial type of arrangement is that 1)
>anyone can do it now and 2) it encourages communication BEFORE marriage,
>ie, if one party is assuming 'let's have basketfuls of kiddies' and the
>other is assuming 'let's be DINKS' this will - ahem - make these assumptions
>known.
>What I don't like is that courts do not always enforce such agreements
>and that it's not REQUIRED that pre-nuptials be done. They should be.

>In article <Bu6tFA.K57@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (DonBeaver) writes:
>>It should be pretty clear that marriage isn't strictly a romance thing,
>>when such a large percentage of marriages end up in court.  Why don't
>>we allow the participants to state their interests in marrying and
>>be bound by what they've agreed to -- as long as, like any other contract,
>>it is within certain bounds?

While I agree with both of you as to the importance of pre-marital communication
and the enforcement of pre-nups, I think you are being a bit too idealistic.
What would the penalty be for changing their mind (as in "bound by what they
agreed to) if not divorce?  Over the "life" of a marriage (hopefully 50 years
or so), people *will* change.  Thus the pre-nup concept needs to be a living
document, not a one-shot thing.  When "I want to live in a big city" becomes
"I want to retire in a small town", or any other change occurs, the other
party may prefer flexibility or may have changed to or may want to split.
Sometimes not changing is the problem -- "I want a wife in her 20s" could get 
in the way of a long marriage (for example) if the opinion did not grow with
time.

Requiring pre-nups is a new idea to me and I think it is grrrrrreat!
That would take the stigma away from wanting one.