HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: It OK that Hakan can't spell, by he should know how to read.
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:52:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


I said:
>>
>> Impossible. First of all, in its 170-year history as a modern state,
>> Greek troops have never entered an region that was not predominately
>>Greek (except perhaps Italy in 1945 and Korea in 1950, but that was
>>very
>> Michael.

And Hakan replied
>
>Oh Micheal,
>
 You should have type Omichael, like Mutlu does it. And unless your name
name is Kahan, my name is mot Micheal, even though you always type it
like that, g.d know why.

 >  You mean that in its 170-year history as a MODERN state
>Greek troops
>NEVER entered an region that was not predominately Greek. Let's add
>some exceptions:
>
>        First Balkan War,

  When? The Greek army remained in the Greek-inhabited regions. While
there were some pockets of predominat slavic populations here and
there, these were surrounded by Greek areas, and there were many
greek-predominately areas where Greek forces did not enter. Luben
(hardly a greek propagandist) has published figures of the Turkish
census, showing that Greeks were the numerically largest nation in the
area that they took over.

>         second Balkan war,
  Ditto.

>  1919 : Anatolia where 20% of people were Greeks+Armenians
>         80% of the people were Turks. For Greek domination
>         works inversely. Probably you compansate that 60% difference
>         between 2 communities using some historical facts. he he he
>         he

  Oh and where did the 1.5 million+ refugees to Greece, and the .5
million refugees to other countries, and the estimated 500,000 dead come
from? In any case, had Turkey not made itself a servant of the German
Kaiser, the europeans would have never let Greeks land on Smyrna. Don't
complain to me, Kahan, you brought it on yourselves. And while the Greek
army did proceed outside the Smyrna Area where the % of the Greek
population was diminishing, the core of the territories awarded to
Greece by the entende were predominately Greek.

>  19 45 : Italy (just for fun, Hitch Hiking, sight seeing, etc)

  Read what I wrote, first, before putting your foot in your mouth.
  I specifically mention Italy in 1945. Actually, we were technically
fighting as allies to Italy, since the italian government had left the
Axis and was also fighting against the Germans. Compare that to Turkey,
that did not enter the war until the spring of 1945, after such
"anti-nazi" countries as Argentina and Brazil. Turkey's behaviour during
World War II reminds me of another flightless bird marketed by the
Purdue company.

>  1950 : Korea sending 200 soldiers for picnic

  I also specifically mentioned Korea.  Your uncle Mustafa was
there too, remember? As to why we were there, with the Americans, the
Europeans, the Chinese (in the other side), etc, that is another story
all together.


Michael.
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: [SOC] Blame that Asian!!!
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:28:25 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct16.190136.8330@ntmtv>, nguyenpd@ntmtv.UUCP (Phat Nguyen) writes:
>
> If I remember correctly, gunpower was brought back to Europe from
> China along the Silk Road.  Chinese technological knowledge came
> to Europe from this road -- i.e. Marco Polo brought back with him
> not only silks, china vases, and spaghetti, but he also brought
> back with him technological know-how of the Chinese at that time.
> The transfering of knowledge along the Silk road sparked scientific
> curiosity that moved Europe away from the Middle Ages toward the
> Renaissance some years later.  I believe that the NOVA series
> on PBS --  "The Genius that Was China" -- has done an extraordinary
> job of researching and documenting this story.  They are being
> done by experts in the fields.

There's a good written source on this: "Science and Civilization
in China" J Needham, Cambridge University Press 1954.

By the way, I think the trading link with China goes back even
further than Marco Polo.   I've read that the Romans imported
Chinese silk.    I don't have a reference for that.  Maybe it
was in Gibbon.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: hhamouda@unity.ncsu.edu (Hechmi Hamouda)
Subject: VIDEOTAPES CONVERSION BETWEEN US AND OTHER SYSTEMS (PAL/SECAM/NTSC)
Organization: North Carolina State University Project Unity
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:00:10 GMT

Hi,
 
There is a service in Raleigh, NC where video conversion from any country format
to any format can be made (VHS, VHS-C and 8 mm types of cassettes).
This will allow playback of videotapes made overseas, here on U.S. TV's and VCR's (NTSC System). The service will also covert the other way around, from
U.S. system to any of the systems used anywhere else in the world (PAL,
SECAM, etc..) 
 
Mailing Address:  INTERNATIONAL VIDEO CONVERSION
                  520 Harvet Lane
                  Raleigh, NC 27606-2217
 
Phone:            (919) 233-8689
 
Fees:             $20.00 + $5.00 S&H 
                  (Price of a High Grade Cassette Included, 2hrs or less)

Delivery:         Mailed back the next day, express shipping at request. 
 
Payment: 	  Cheque, Cash or Money Order mailed with tape.
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: RE:English language and behaviour
Date: 14 Oct 1992 19:56:49 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <cmp0118.719063434@radon.sys.uea.ac.uk>, cmp0118@sys.uea.ac.uk (S. Green) writes:
|> How is it possible for English people NOT to speak English?

You're running into a bit of early nineteenth century American
patriotism.     There was an attempt to make American English
somehow distinct from the English spoken in England.   This 
showed itself in various spelling "reforms" and in references 
to the "American" language.

As far as I can tell, no-one talks about an "American" language
any more, but when they say the word "English", Americans mean
the variety spoken in the USA.   When they wish to refer to the
English spoken in the UK, they talk about "British English".

Now this is pretty silly, since what Americans think of as 
British English is actually that spoken in a particular area
of England, rather than in Britain as a whole.   Even then,
they mix up a couple of varients, since sometimes they think
of BBC English as British English, and sometimes they seem
to be thinking of something closer to London English.   It's 
even sillier when you consider that there are greater 
differences between the various varieties of English spoken 
within the British Isles than there are between American and
"British" English.

Nevertheless, in the US, common usage is that English is
what is spoken in the US, while the English themselves no
longer speak English, but a variant called British English.

Crazy, you say?  Yes, but no crazier than many other American
ideas.

jon.
From: young7905@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Information on Hungary
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:15:27 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa


     I am looking for information on Hungarian culture. If you have any please
send to young7905@iscs.uni.edu  .
                            Thanks,
                           Jeff Young
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: RE: English language and behaviour
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:45:06 GMT


In article <1bk8bcINNnqd@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct15.105124.15356@hasler.ascom.ch>, kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> In article <1bhu21INNfd9@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> |> 
|> |> |> It's even sillier when you consider that there are greater 
|> |> |> differences between the various varieties of English spoken 
|> |> |> within the British Isles than there are between American and
|> |> |> "British" English.
|> |> 
|> |> Can't say that I agree with that - care to expand a little? 
|> 
|> For example, I come from Tyneside.   I know that many people
|> from the SE of England find it impossible to understand what
|> a Tynesider is saying, unless he speaks very slowly, and 
|> imitates BBC English.   But to overhear two Tynesiders talking
|> to one another causes serious difficulties.

Well, I agree with that - I was amazed when a friend (from Southampton)
couldn't understand the local folks in Manchester very well!! and my
wife (from just south of Manchester) has trouble understanding
the comedy programme Rab Nesbitt.  Maybe, living in the centre of 
europe, i've just got used to listening to broken/heavily accented english.

What I originally meant is that we speak the same words, same sentence 
structure,even though we may have strong accents and local expressions,
whereas american english seems to be diverging from english at an 
ever increasing rate.

|> jon.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: English Words and Behaviour
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:52:41 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Oct13.120042.7655@bradford.ac.uk> A.Bulogiorgos@bradford.ac.uk (A BULOGIORGOS) writes:
>Some words and phrases that have a stupid meaning in English in
>another country than England.

What is a "stupid meaning"?  What does the above sentence mean, anyway?
You may want to provide a Greek translation.

>Do you know that English people use very strange the English language?

Do you know that _you_ use the English language in a very strange way?

>For example when they want to say chips instead they say 'crisps' 
>while 'chips' has the same meaning as 'french fries'!  So if you want
>to buy a pack of chips you must say: 'a pack of crisps please!...'

Well, I used to study in Yankeeland, and there they say "French fries"
when they want to say "chips", for some reason, and yes, if you ask
for chips, you'll get a pack of crisps.  Stupid?  You bet.

>In England people claim that they are the only people on the world
>that speak English while they believe that Americans don't speak English!

Well, they do -- a sort of English.

>	<...> I asked a lady in the street to show me where it is.
>	<...> - "No madame. You mean to the right" I told her.

"Madame"?  Was she French?  That explains it.

>And that's only a small taste of the strange behavior

"Behaviour".  "Behavior" is what the Yanks do.  Now _that_ is strange.

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
From: Steve.Hayes@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Wanted: Easter algorithms
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:57:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2559.2AD328C8
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

During a discussion about Wanted: Easter algorithms on 10-05-92  20:48 
 Dimitri Konstantas said to All

 DK> Some time ago the Orthodox Easter algorithm was posted in the
 DK> newsgroup. Does anybody has the Catholic Easter algorithm?
 DK> 
 DK> Please send any reply directly to me and I will forward it to anybody
 DK> who might ask.

I missed that, so I would certainly be interested in seeing the Orthodox one. So if anyone has it, please would they post it again.

 
... Steve Hayes, Missiology Dept, University of South Africa, Pretoria
--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8955 soc.culture.usa:7787
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: English Words and Behavior
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:57:33 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct13.120042.7655@bradford.ac.uk>, A.Bulogiorgos@bradford.ac.uk (A BULOGIORGOS) writes:
|>
|> Do you know that English people use very strange the English language?

You don't say it?  Thanking to you for this information it ought
to be.

jon.
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish,soc.rights.human
Subject: Midnight Express 1992: Next stop, Kurdistan
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:22:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


 All is beautiful in A.R.G.I.C. land. One million Armenians were not
massacred, anything said to the contrary is a fabrication of the
European and American press and parliaments. The press and the
parliaments have apparently always been anti-Turkish, which explains why
they are not always held in high regard by the Turkish military. The
parliament got its own in 1980. Now it is the time for the press to pay:

Letter by two U.S. Senators and two congressmen to the N.Y. Times:
Published Oct 10, 1992, Page A34, copied in its entirety.

-------------

IN TURKEY, JOURNALISTS DO THEIR JOB IN PERIL

To the editor:
  We, as steering committee members of the Congressional Committee to
support Writers and Journalists, share the conserns raised in yor Sept
7 report on Turkish use of force against Kurds, describing human rights
violations by both guerrilla and Government forces in Turkey. We join
proponents of freedom of expression in calling attention to the danger
to journalists in Turkey.
  Since last February, at least nine jounalists have been killed - and
many more wounded - usually following work-related threats. It appears
Turkish authorities have not made serious efforts to investigate fully
these attacks and procecute those responsible. Indeed, it is widely
believed by journalists that Turkish security forces may be responsible
for some of these attacks.
  We call on the Turkish Government to protect freedom of expression and
support the brave men and women who work in this hazardous environment.

(Senator) William Cohen
(Senator) Bob Graham
(Representative) Bill Green
(Representative) John Lewis
Washington, Sept. 25, 1992.

-------
Michael.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: On the TIME article.
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>   Andronikos Romanos
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:49:05 EDT
Organization: Penn State University


Dear Greek-friends,

much as I understand your intentions/attempts to protect what you
consider as a sacred name &  perceive as a historic gem you inhe-
rited,  I am afraid that I must disagree  with the proposition of
blockading TIME;  a suggestion that showed up in our network just
after the publication of an issue containing the particular arti-
cle, and the criticism over the Macedonian issue.

I believe that the whole thing is pointless...  For those who are
here at the U.S.  the proposition appears to be extremely simpli-
stic and amusing...  TIME is not even intimidated even to sue the
Republican Party itself  and believe me:  TIME has a considerably
larger circulation among the Republicans than that among  Greeks,
Cypriots and Greek-Americans...

No one ever heard G.Bush   (or even his notorious Vice-President)
making the gaffe and suggest a similar boycott... My "estimation"
is that TIME will not even feel the slip in the numbers. What you
have to do is to prove your points, the inaccuracies of the arti-
cle;  and  even if you manage to satisfy these prerequisites  no-
thing warranties that the editor will be interested,  that he/she
does not have a different agenda, or is not successfully influen-
ced by a different propaganda.

                                        Yours, Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: peeters@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (bert peeters)
Subject: Re: English Words and Behavior
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:33:40 GMT

A.Bulogiorgos@bradford.ac.uk (A BULOGIORGOS) writes:

>Some words and phrases that have a stupid meaning in English in
>another country than England.

Only stupid people call stupid the things they fail to understand. 
Instead of uttering all this nonsense, why don't you shut up and try
to learn from the way other people (i.e. non-Greeks) use THEIR language?
Yours is not the language of heaven and earth.

>A short story:
>	One "sunny" day in Bradford West Yorkshire I decided to go
>	shoping to the nearest supermarket. Because I was going there
>	for the first time I asked a lady in the street to show me
>	where it is. This was the dialog:
>	- "You will go straight and then you will turn left" while she
>	was pointing to the right! 
>	- "No madame. You mean to the right" I told her.
>	- "No no to the left" while she was pointing again to the right!
>	I couldn't do anything else but to give up and carry on!

>This story proves how "perfect" they can speak English these
>"proud" people. That's probably why they drive from the left hand 
>side of the street.

Confusing left and right happens to all of us, It's got nothing to do
with language.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Bert Peeters                         Tel: +61 02 202344
Department of Modern Languages               002 202344
University of Tasmania at Hobart        Fax: 002 207813
GPO Box 252C                            Bert.Peeters@modlang.utas.edu.au
Hobart TAS 7001
Australia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: Dividing Macedonia
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:58:16 GMT
X-Posted-From: mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Oct6.084841.40250@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.123431.4803@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, deniz@mandolin.ctr.colum
>bia.edu (Deniz Akkus) writes:
>>In article <5774.3244.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Micha
>>el Polymenakos)  writes:
>>>
>>> Impossible. First of all, in its 170-year history as a modern state,
>>>Greek troops have never entered an region that was not predominately
>>>Greek (except perhaps Italy in 1945 and Korea in 1950, but that was very
>>>different).
>>
>>All four of my grandparents would very strongly beg to differ.
>
>They would be wrong.

Unfortunately they would be right.  People do move around you know.  

Western Anatolia used to be quite a patchwork of Turkish and Greek, the
area was not predominantly Greek, although the city of Izmir was.  Don't
forget that the Turks settled the area in 11th-13th centuries, before
the Ottoman times.  The invading Greek army occupied Western Anatolia
with the intent to annex it to Greece.  

Given the state of Turkey at that time, with people discussing whether
American or British mandate would be less painful, I have no reason to
believe that a more reasonable treaty than the Sevres might not have
been taken for granted.  The Sevres treaty basically dismembered Turkey,
banishing Turks to the landbound plains of Central Anatolia.  

There would have been no need for extensive population exchanges between
Greece and Turkey had Greece not invaded Turkey.  Every town in Western
Anatolia had Greeks and Turks, living side by side, until they had to be
convinced from outside that they had irreconcilable differences.  Sounds
like anything that might be going on in the Balkans right now? 

>thunder could be heard in the Turkish capital. However, this penetration of
>Turkish lands (Turkish since the late 12th century, after Myriokefalon in
>1176 completed the Manzikert disaster of 1071; I'm not going to enter a
>discussion on whether Turks should go back to Central Asia where they belong)
>was only a military necessity, an attempt to enforce the Sevres treaty which
>the kemalists refused to recognize and which was all Greece wanted. And this

During its recent history, Greece has been the agressor in that section
of the world.  Its birth itself was an uprising against the weakening
Ottoman Empire. It collaborated with other Balkan nations to throw the
Turks out of Europe, it openly admitted its claims on Istanbul, it seized
an opportunity to invade Western Anatolia.  Still to this day, its
people can state publicly that they think Turks ought to be sent back to
where they came from 921 years ago.  

Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
From: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: "Ithaka" by K. Kavafis
Summary: A poem by a great one.
Keywords: Ithaki
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:06:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: eecs.1992Oct15.210637.30827
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University


            ITHACA
           --------
As you go on the journey to Ithaca,
Pray that your way may be a long one,
Full of adventures, full of knowledge,
Do not be afraid of Poseidon's anger,
The Cyclops and the Laestrygonians,
You will never find such things upon your journey
If your thoughts remain lofty, and if a fine
Feeling has touched your body and your soul.
You will not meet the fierce Poseidon,
The Cyclops and the Laestrygonians
If you have not brought them with you, in your spirit,
If your spirit does not set them before you.

Pray that your way may be a long one.
Many let them be, the summer mornings
When with what pleasure, with what joy
You enter harbours never seen before;
You stop at Phoenician trading-stations,
And buy their lovely things;
Mother-of-pearl and coral, amber and ebony
And delicious perfumes of every kind,
As plentiful as you like, delicious perfumes.
You go to a number of Egyptian cities,
You learn and learn from the men of science.

Always have Ithaca at the back of your mind.
The arrival there is your objective.
But do not be in any harry on your journey.
Better to let it last for years.
In old age you will anchor at the island,
Rich with all you have gained upon the way,
Not expecting Ithaca to give you riches.
Ithaca gave you the lovely journey.
Without her you would never have started-
But she has nothing more to give you.

And if you find her poor, Ithaca has not deceived you.
With so much experience you have become so wise
That you knew already the meaning of Ithacas.

                                     K.KAVAFIS
                                 Alexandria, 1911
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: RE: English language and behaviour
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:51:24 GMT


In article <1bhu21INNfd9@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

|> It's even sillier when you consider that there are greater 
|> differences between the various varieties of English spoken 
|> within the British Isles than there are between American and
|> "British" English.

Can't say that I agree with that - care to expand a little? 

|> jon.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch