From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:44:04 GMT

In article <1e0cpdINNgf6@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>Philippians 4:8
> "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest,
>  whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are PURE, whatsoever things
>  are LOVELY, whatsoever things are of GOOD REPORT; if there be any VIRTUE,
>  and if there be any praise, think on these things."

One of the most interesting discussions I've ever had is on whether or not
there is an implied "and" or an implied "or" between those segments in that
verse. To the Metallica fan, that verse has implied "or"'s, and is read
like this:

"Finally, bretheren, whatsoever things are TRUE, whatsoever things are HONEST,
whatsoever things are JUST, etc."

What you believe about that verse will indicate most of what you will say
in this group. To those who see those first few things as being emphasised,
"real-life" music is appealing. As Noel say, the Bible is real-life, but
it lacks a certain specificity (sp). We look to those who are experiencing
such things as hurt and injustice to share their feelings so that we can
as specifically as possible identify with our own circumstances. It is a
human need which we need to meet, a very real one.


>I just subscribed to this newsgroup yesterday and I've already read stuff
>about "Christian night clubs" and christian rock music, and drums in 
>church services, and secular rock being okay as long as you don't listen
>too much to it, etc.  Am I the only reader of this who finds these attitudes
>sad.  C'mon people.

Maybe if you had read longer, you might have seen more of what you could
agree with (nettiquite, my friend, nettiquite).


  The verses above are just TWO of many areas in the Bible
>that instruct true believers to be espouse personal separation from the world.

Whether or not those verses espouse what you say they do has been a hotly
debated topic since, oh, since they written, basically.

>"...be not conformed..." as the verse above says.  Why is it that some
>Christians find it necessary to conform their music style, instrumentation, 
>dress, etc to the world.  Only the lyrics change. If some of these Christians
>were to be placed next to some secular band and everything but the lyrics
>presented, no one would know the difference.  That's sure letting your
>light shine before men!  Be just like the world! 

We win souls one at a time, so the question would be "are they a light to
the rest of the band?" Only God can answer that. 

One other point is that you specify that the lyrics be removed. One of
the ongoing discussions in this group is what constitutes a song. To many,
the lyrics are all that is important. So to them, your argument is like
saying "If you took a christian and didn't let him speak or work or carry
his Bible or move more than two feet, would people know he was a christian?"

 And please don't present
>the argument that you need to attract others to Christ by being like the world,
>otherwise they might not come.  I Samuel 15:22 says that "...to obey is better
>than sacrifice..."  Disobeying commandments and principles about being
>separate and holy because your motives are good (that being to win others
>to Christ) is NOT acceptable to God.  He expects obedience...and through
>that obedience will bless you.  he doesn't need your worldly approach to win
>people to himself.

Straw man - A for effort, but you lacked follow through and your verse was
way out of context, so C- for execution. I won't launch into a discussion
about literal, figurative, and obvious interpretations of scripture. However,
I would be more than happy to discuss it with you via e-mail.

  I'm sure I will get flamed for this

Not by me (this is nowhere near a flame!)

...there was a time
>in my walk where I thought differently.  But as I grew in the Lord and
>grew in sanctification through reading His word, I realized just how
>wrong this Christian rock movement is.  Please, I don't mind the flames,
>but if there is one person out there who will look closely to God's
>word and be convicted in this area, I will have accomplished something.

What you have accomplished is to breed conflict through a combattive tone.
But that end, saving one person, justifies your means to you. You have
disobeyed God's commandments, and become just like a christian rock
musician - "using a worldly approach to win people."


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian