HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kieran@cmatter.physics.indiana.edu (Kieran Mullen (kieran@cmatter.physics.indiana.edu))
Subject: SANDMAN:  The flip side of the Endless...
Originator: kieran@cmatter.physics.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:50:45 GMT

    It seems pretty clear to me that Destruction is engaged in acts of
*creation*:  painting, sculpture, cooking.  In addition we have been told
that Death is present at the *birth* of all living creatures.  Finally,
Delerium tells Destiny that there are two sides to every coin, that she
and Destruction knew this long ago.

    One possible implication is that each of the Endless have a "flip
side".  I'm not sure how far to push this, but it could be a subtle theme
or motif.  Desire seems the only "hateful" or spiteful one among the 
Endless.  And it would be kind of neat if Destiny had a flip side of
Free Will.  I don't want to claim that Delerium has an aspect called
"Sanity", but there she claims to have a knowledge that goes beyond pure
meaningless ravings.

    I'm not suggesting that there are evil twins of the Endless, nor 
something so simple that each Endless automatically controls their opposite
realm, but that there seems to be this odd connection between the Endless
and their opposites in many of the stories.

                              Kieran Mullen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.sandman
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:52:33 GMT
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Ron Dippold (rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com) wrote:
: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
: >Although Sandman itself may not justify a new newsgroup, certainly there
: >is enough interest in "mature" comics (Vertigo and its ilk, along with
: >limited runs and one-shots like _Maus_ or Gaiman's _Signal to Noise_)
: >to consider rec.arts.comics.mature.  What do folks think?
: 
: Just thinking of the big debate over what's mature...  Is Lobo mature?
: Are all comics that don't have the comics code seal mature and all
: that do, not?  In some cases it's extremely obvious, but in many cases
: not.  rac.vertigo at least makes it fairly easy to place things.

Of course these questions cannot be easily answered.  I would just
as soon see a group dedicated to the discussion of works that
attempt to merge serious literature with graphic art techniques.
How one chooses what goes where would not be straightforward.

There are likely those who consider _Spawn_ and _YoungBloods_ (or whatever)
to be serious literature. 

The most frequent comic meaning of the word "mature" or "adult" is:
anything with enough graphic violence or sex to make it inappropriate
for children.  But in my opinion much of this stuff is just 
pandering to an older breed of child.  

It is my opinion that an adult comic book (graphic novel) is 
one where there is a serious attempt on the part of the artists
to push the edge of the envelope or to make a serious observation
about the human condition in a context that rises above the
simple attempt to repeat formulas (regardless of how many 
in-jokes there are) in an attempt to sell the magazine to 
the widest audience possible. 

Do not misunderstand me.  There is a market for the formulas, so you might
as well feed it, but that market is not the same as the market
that is exploring serious graphic art and literature.

Obviously what falls where is a judgement call.  

Of course it is usually fairly easy to find what you are looking
for in this forum, so a new one may not really be needed.

doug 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Organization: The Little Chinese Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:52:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.172903.13747@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:
>In article <C1Hz5M.6sw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine) writes:
>> lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>> 
>[Theories about the Chinese kid with Death]
>> >
>> >Chang Tso-Lin would have been a soldier/bandit in Manchuria by 1893.
>> >I was definitely wrong there.
>> 
>> Here's an amusing thought:
>> 
>> It could just be an ordinary human guy who did nothing truly famous to merit
>> writing down.

He could be an ordinary Hunan guy, too. 

>Exactly!  The point isn't *who* he is, but the reason why Death chooses to
>live as a mortal for one day.
>
>"Think of it, Lance.  To have a warm hand against yours in a breezy summer
>night.  To hear him passionately tell you his about dreams, and his love.
>Oh yes, I'd live for that."

Do I get bonus points for recognizing Mr Freeze's speech from BTAS?

I dunno. It seems strange to have two relatively important events 
surrounding just a "normal" Death's day off. While it's important for
Death to understand the dreams and plans of mortals, I think she's 
talking to someone who went further in recognizing these plans.

Maybe the kid grew up to be a Boxer.

>The kid was awfully well-dressed for a cattle driver, whoever he was...

Maybe it was The Annual Oxen-Drovers Ball and the two stepped out while The
Celestial Harmony Dance Band took a break. 

(Death Special)------------
 Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith | "Well, I thought you were cute, no matter what 
   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  that computer person wrote. Now that you don't
  Featuring a character   |  need it anymore, could I have your top hat for my
  created by Neil Gaiman  |  collection?" _Mr Peanut: The High Cost of Boxing_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mss2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re: Sandman - Bring on the C's
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:02:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.221746.2949@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>In article <C1F8HJ.7tB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos) writes:
>>
>>I'd think the opposite of Dream is Reality, as in owning up to the fact that
>>someone doesn't love you, or that you can't send those who spurn you screaming
>>into Hell, and stuff like that.  I'd imagine aall this travelling in the 
>>Waking World is really getting to Morpheus.  Maybe he sees it as therapy 
>>for his "flipside." 
>>	As a matter of fact, we can see the whole series as Morpheus coping 
>>with the Reality his dreams creates. 

>We've already seen Dream use the "reality" power. At the end of the
>"Cereal Convention" in _Doll's_House_, he withdrew all the dreams from
>the killers, forcing them to confront themselves without illusions.
>The power to give dreams encompasses the power to withhold them.

>This surely applies to the other Endless; for example, Desire could
>withhold all desire from a mortal, making him entirely apathetic.

	And, of course, Death has (on request) withheld death from
Orpheus and Hob Gadling.  Delirium and Despair don't seem
temperamentally likely to choose to cause sanity or hope,
respectively, but presumably it could happen if they for some reason
wished to.  Destiny probably doesn't have any choices at all, though
that depends on one's interpretation of Delirium's words in the most
recent issue.

Mike
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"I decline utterly to be impartial
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 as between the fire brigade and the fire."
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 -- Winston Churchill, July 7, 1926
mschiffer@aal.itd.umich.edu
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:02:39 -0500 
From: "James D. Zelenka" <jz1j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Iris Allen & LSH

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.comics.misc: 20-Jan-93 Iris Allen & LSH
Gregg Bradley Baimel@and (674)

> There've been some implications that Iris Allen (dead wife of the
> ex-Flash) has been seen in Legion.  Anyone out there care to give us
> non-Legion readers the scoop?

Well, first off, I'll point out that we don't _know_ if she's dead or
not in LSH. Lotsa folks bought the farm when the earth blew up, but it
isn't known yet if Iris was one of the many who escaped.

Iris had had twin sons (Don and something else, I forget), the "tornado
twins." They both had super-speed, a la the flash. They were executed by
the Dominion during the invasion of Earth.

Iris was an editor at the Daily Planet, before the earth went boom.

-jim
jz1j@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:53:11 GMT

In article <C1Hz5M.6sw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine) writes:
>Here's an amusing thought:
>
>It coudl just be an ordinary human guy who did nothing truly famous to merit
>writing down.
>
>I mean, think of it, do you expect Sexton to become someone history will
>remember just because he's sepnding the day with Didi?
>
>
First, doesn't anyone think the look on Death's face is strange?  Maybe seeing
her depicted so well in D:THCOL has spoiled me, and made me see things that 
aren't there, but she looks downright _distressed._

Running with m'Lady's idea, I came up with an annoying prototheory.  Where have
we seen this "Every Hundred Years" rigamarole before?  Hob!  Maybe it's the
fate of the Endless to ALL interact with humanity once every hundred years.
I know that Morpheus' was chosen _by_ him, but perhaps he was neglecting his
proper duty.

"Nah.  Death's a mug's game."  - Hob Gadling 

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jelmore@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Elmore)
Subject: Re: Annotated Future Imperfect (Long)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 05:04:04 GMT

In article <1jprcgINNdd6@male.EBay.Sun.COM> zombie@EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>- Wonder Woman's Tiera (3rd shelf above where Rick is sitting)
>
>Huh?  This is OK with DC?  Maybe it belongs to someone else.

Aw, c'mon, these two do it all of the time. I'll admit I missed the tiara.
(I mean, the Bottle City of Kandor is vintage Superman...)

One correction to the list...
That's not Kryptonite next to the Wrecking ball; those are the amulets
the Sons of the Tiger wore.

And NO ONE knows whether or not Professor X's wheelchair is the same as
the one Bruce Banner sat in during John Byrne's run on HULK? I don't have
any of those issues available!!!

I think maybe we're going overboard on all of the capes (I know Cloak's,
Doc Strange's and Quasar's are intentional; but Quicksilver's costume
should have a white lightning bolt on it...)

And yes, that is the Wizard's helmet.

Jay (=

--
   John W. "Jay" Elmore Jr. (=            Email: johnel@linfield.edu
  "Doctor Banner, I presume." -- Maestro to the Hulk, FUTURE IMPERFECT #1
  "Doctor Banner, I presume." -- Hulk to the Maestro, FUTURE IMPERFECT #1
                        ###KEEP CIRCULATING THE TAPES###
From: mcollins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Killans - First And Last And Always)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman/Gaiman work
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:38:15 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.

In article <1993Jan25.164534.3441@cs.nott.ac.uk> pcxsws@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (S.Ward-Smith) writes:
>
>According to a Gaiman interview in the latest Comics World, Taboo is
>cancelled. It will carry on until No 10 to use already paid for material.
>N.G and Mike Zulli are now searching for a book publisher for Sweeny.
>No idea why it's being cancelled. Anyone got any further info on this?
>It might be poor sales, but it sells pretty well in my local shop.
>
This was covered in a previous interview with Bissette in Comic World - I'll
have to go look at it again, but I think the main reasons were lack of sales
(partly due to the fact that From Hell started being collected elsewhere,
and a lot of people were buying it solely for that) and Bissette wanting to
go back to drawing comics. 

Mike
From: kiemschies@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: LSH #41
Date: 22 Jan 93 11:42:59 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

In article <1993Jan22.024648.14176@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.032401.20991@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes:
>>Luorno discovers
>>her third body, but now neither Brainy will commit to which set is the original
>>(cop out!),
> 
> This annoyed me incredibly.  The writers knew that fans had pointed out that
> letting the younger Luornu split into three bodies plays havoc with the
> "well, nobody knows which group is the clones" idea.
> 
> So they decide to mention it.  Without addressing it.  Brainy basically says
> "well, the Dominators could have grown her another body, even if she's the
> real one".  The problem isn't that the Dominators _can't_ do it.  The problem
> is that it makes no sense.  (Especially if you consider that they must have
> also cloned Luornu with only two bodies when they could have done three.)

   I'VE GOT IT! The third body is the real NEW AND IMPROVED Man of Streel #5
> --
> "On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
> On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
>     that she made from Leftover Turkey.
> [days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
>    -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)
> 
> Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: jap@acsu.buffalo.edu (James A. Perreault)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Prisoners of Gravity (Part 2)
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:21:24 GMT
Organization: UB

panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:

>Last night's episode was about information.  The people interviewed were 
>science fiction people rather than comics people (I think they try to 
>alternate the emphasis on alternate weeks) but I found it fascinating.

I agree.  Dougles Adam's insights on computers were very interesting to
hear.

But my favorite part was when Rick said "You're not taping me now, are
you?"   

I was.


						Jim Perreault
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston)
Subject: Re: I miss Krypto the superdog or Damn, that Crisis anyway!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:34:39 GMT

mac7@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:


>You know, I really miss Krypto.  He was a great character.
>Everytime he showed up, it made the issue for me.
>And then Byrne comes along and gets rid of him.
>Geez, I'm depressed. (I know, it's only a comic book.)

You can bet if Krypto were still around he wouldn't have
let Doomsday kill Superman like that.  This world needs
more Kryptos!

BTW, I remember that during the Crisis, a big deal was
made over the 'last Supergirl story ever' which I think
appeared in DC Comics Presents.  Was there a similar
farewell to Krypto?  I think the last time I saw him
in a DC story was the 2-part Alan Moore story.  Were
there any other appearances during that era?

Long live the dog of steel!  :-)

Tom
From: joak@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jonathan A. Kung)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Squad/Shi'ar
Date: 24 Jan 1993 08:43:53 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

tyg@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway) writes:
>... Byrne ...
>basically assigned all of them to mental powers; clairvoyance for super-senses,
>pyrokinesis for heat vision, telekinesis for strength and flight, etc.

I hope I'm not reviving a dead thread (Superman's powers, that is),
but does this theory support Superman's extraterrestrial flight?

-Jon Kung
From: pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Urges of a 501 murderous rage...
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:42:53 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>Wow.  You really hate this guy that much due to a lack of talent?  I
>better hide the portfolio :).  Seriously, what'd he do, slap your mother?

No, something worse.  He did Youngblood.  :)

-- 

+-| Paul Lewis |--| Jonestown: WLVR 91.3fm  Coming Soon...  |-+-------------+
|  'I'd love to turn you on.'                  -The Beatles   |             |
|  'You should be with us, feeling like we do  -Perry Farrell |     1       |
|   like you love to, but never will again.'                  |    2 3      |
|  'The struggle between God and man breaks    -Kazantzakis   |             |
|   out in everyone.'                                         | Renaissance |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: LSH #41
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:36:57 GMT

In article <7dPp03a.c9Fr00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>berninge@cs.purdue.edu (Jim Berninger) writes:
>The worst costume has to be Ferro Lad's.  He looks like he belongs in
>a high school marching band.

Nah, then he'd have to be Brass Lad.  Besides, what's wrong with marching band 
uniforms?  I think they look cool in metallic fabrics....
     Dave Van Domelen, as I said, I have a weakness for the button-up flap in 
front....
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: artists who draw themselves
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:54:57 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <C16yKJ.IHI@news2.cis.umn.edu>, lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
> 
> I'd hate to think what Peter Bagge looks like.

[Typed in a slow, moody style (and in copperplate font, if you have a
 fancy terminal):]

Pretty normal.  Look at the backup story in HATE #11.  That's him.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mgq@inel.gov (Michael G McKellar)
Subject: Rec.arts.comics.mature
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:01:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.202555.26060@wam.umd.edu> lecuyer@wam.umd.edu (Catherine L. LeCuyer) writes:
>
>Using  r.a.c.vertigo  is the only fair way of limiting what gets
>posted of the newsgroup. Otherwise you'd have a big fight over what
>is "mature". I think someone has already brought this up. It seems
>to me that what the Vertigo titles have in common besides the "mature"
>label is that they are about the supernatural rather than the superheroic.
>Maybe that should be the designation? r.a.c.supernatural? It would 
>allow comics like Spector, DR.S, and Mage (if we ever see it) to be
>discussed also.
>This is just a thought, r.a.c.vertigo would probably be simpler.
>Cathy I don't have a clue either.

Is there really a problem creating a r.a.c.mature?  I mean most of the
mature titles have "For Mature Readers" printed on the covers.  Would
someone really be offended if they thought their comics might not
be mature?  I collect Batman and I have no problems that it is not
a mature title.  IMHO I think the best split would be r.a.c.mature (
as if you didn't guess that by now).


========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: TALES OF THE JEDI / STAR WARS
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:47:46 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland

>   O.K. , I know "Tales of the Jedi" is supposed to start
> with Dark Horse Comics #7.  However, sometime in December
> I was reading Previews or some similar publication and
> was trying to keep track of other Star Wars stuff that
> was supposedly going to start coming out.  For example,
> I thought a Star Wars / Tales of the Jedi serial was
> going to start in the January Insider, but apparently
> I was wrong.  Is this coming out, and if so, when? And
> is there any other Star Wars material ( besides Classic
> Star Wars ) coming out from Dark Horse ?

Okay, Dark Horse has often had a problem with meeting their deadlines.
Their Dark Horse Comics has not been an exception. It has faced some
delays. While I haven't been down to check this week, I believe that #5
is suppose to be out now. This means you will probably have to wait
about 2 more months for #7.

As for other Star Wars stuff, The Classic Star Wars continues apace, but
is probably meeting with more production delays. There is also a UK
version of Dark Empire being released. Apparently it is suppose to
contain some stuff to get N. American readers to buy it. One thing that
caught my eye was the Star Wars trading cards that are suppose to be
enclosed. You might want to look for it.

Beyond that, nothing is really clear. Dark Horse will probably have a
new series out by the end of the year sometime, possibly a follow up to
Dark Empire. Hope this helps.

_craig

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stupid Reasons to be Glad that You weren't Alive in the 14th Century|
| #1 - It was utter crap back then.                                   |
| #3 - The only cure for a toothache was to smash your head repeatedly|
|      against a wall until it hurt more than your tooth.             |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||]

 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ter5424@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (T-Dub/SGP '93)
Subject: Re: Squadron Supreme
Reply-To: ter5424@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:12:22 GMT

In article <C19nAv.4rM@world.std.com>, modrall@world.std.com (Mark W Modrall) writes:
>
>[deleted...]
>actually, i remember at the time they were just launching the
>New Universe line, and rumor had it that the Squadron was supposed
>to figure prominently in it, but DC threatened a lawsuit... a limited
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>series for the Squad was okay, but an ongoing series was too much...
>that's how we ended up with DP7 and Star Brandy
>
>-mark

An archer whose girlfriend is a singer-turned-vocal-powered-heroine, a water
guy, a flying strong man from another planet, a powerful women from 'Utopia',
a bachelor with a 'power' prisim, a guy with no powers who stalks the night,
etc, etc, etc.... I guess that was a *tad* bit too much like the good 'ol
Justice League for DC, eh?

                                              Theron

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc