HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM (Ihtisham Kabir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Jamaat's rise in power
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:24:52 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: kabir

In article <1992Apr15.175038.15308@udel.edu> kazi@bugs.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>In article <NAEEM.92Apr14171314@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>>
[...]
>>
>>Mujib govt: General amnesty, in defiance of angry protests from committee of 
>>relatives of war dead [including Johir Raihan, etc].
[...]
>
>What is the legal implication of the general amnesty? 
[rest deleted]

I have found myself pondering over this a good deal lately. The
traitors of 1971 have, no doubt, obtained maximum mileage from this
alleged amnesty. But here are some questions:

1) What was the exact wording of this amnesty? By whom?
2) Was the amnesty constitutionally valid?
3) Did the person issuing amnesty have constitutional authority to do so?
4) Was there any condition attached to the amnesty?

The Mujib government showed disregard for the law on numerous
occasions, and this amnesty may be one of those occasions, in which
case the amnesty should be null and void.

Regarding Jahir Raihan, I was really ticked off not to see his picture
or name in the Dhaka newspapers around Dec 16, when they commemorate
Shohid Buddhijibi Dibosh. I know that he was killed a few weeks after
victory day when he went to look for Shaidullah Kaisar, but it seems
to me grossly unfair to remember one brother and not the other. (Rumors
abound as to who was actually responsible for his death.) He was surely
the most talented filmmaker we ever had.

- Ihtisham Kabir
From: mohammed4416@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Supporting Pakistani Teams
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:56:57 -0500
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

isn"t there some reason to think India evil?  Think about the policies like
distribution of water of the Ganges, or the Chacma situition in Hill Tracts or 
even our Tin-Bigha corridor.  I think India can easily solve those problems;
but they don't want to.
    Please think a little bit.




In article <s292qINNhj0@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, misra@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Boo!) writes:
>>I think when we were raised, we were taught that India is evil and no matter 
>>what Pakistan does, she is better than India. Religion played a very important 
>>role in establishing this. Before '71, Pakistani rulers had to push this, but 
>>I don't know, for some reasons or other, the attitude hasn't changed much even 
> 					  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 	Really? You mean people in Bd still think that India is evil?
> Humm.. i didnt know this. 
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Golam Azam issue :We should have the whole picture in front of us
From: fahmed@desire.wright.edu
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:25:54 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

I just want to add two points to the current issue of Golam Azam.
The first one is about the 'Gana Adalat'. We want punishment 
for those who opposed the Liberation war of '71. But the thing 
is that, we, in no way can take resort to any unconstitutional way
for that. Through the war of 71 we got our own constitution and
moreover we now have a democratically elected govt. Remember
that we should not disregard these two things. Otherwise it would
be a  suicidal act.

	The second thing is that if we really want the 
annihilation of the collaborators, then we should find out
all the war criminals.We 
should have the whole picture of pre-liberation, liberation
-time and post-liberation situation. All quarters responsible 
for the collaboration should be punished. But here is my concern.
And that is the most important reason why nothing  could be done  
regarding this for the last 21 years. The reason is
"Kan tanlay matha ashay". We did have and still now have some of
these 'mathas' assuming highest posts of our country.

As-salam.

Farid Ahmed

"Hero is he whose reasoning wins over his emotion"
From: jxt@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jawahar Tembulkar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Bangladesh and recent economic changes in India ( Re: recent baimela )
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:00:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computervision, San Diego, CA

>>If this is still true, let's hope that India's recent change into
>>free market economy changes that and encourages West Bengal to
>>import more Bangladeshi books.
>>
>>- Ihtisham Kabir

The economies of South Asia have gone through decades of slow
growth.  However, recent economic changes being implemented in
India ( and Pakistan before that ) herald the onset of radical
change.  The protected markets, and shortage based economics is
falling by the wayside.  Despite the relatively low level of
cross border trade between South Asian countries, the impact of
these changes is bound to be felt.  A devaluation of Indian and/or
Pakistani rupee puts pressure on the Bangladeshi currency to also
be devalued, etc., since, Bangladeshi goods become overpriced
compared with the competetion from India/Pakistan.  Just one
example.  As the Indian currency becomes totally convertible,
there would be similar pressure on Bangladesh.  There is so
much potential for trade between Bangladesh and the neighbouring
states in India.  Beyond this, the entore South Asian region
could by the year 200 function similar to the ASEAN.

This newsgroup has been strangely silent as to the impact of the
changes that are occuring across the border.  Is this not some-
thing that would concern all Bengalis ?  Has the new govt. in BD
instituted any changes to economic policy ?

Would knowledgeable netters take it from here ?

Regards,


Jawa



-- 
* Statutory Disclaimer : These are merely my views.	*
* Jawahar M. Tembulkar, Computervision, R & D, 		*
* 9805 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA, 92121, USA.	*
* UUCP : uunet!calmasd!jxt	voice : (619) 587-3078	*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:57:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr14.185702.13148
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


	Anil Trivedi:

	 Given that perceptions are an important driving force for conflicts,
	do you resolve conflicts by (i) clearing up misperceptions if there
	are any *and* addressing real & legitimate complaints or, (ii) treating 
	any and all perceptions as legitimate without regard to whether or not 
	they are rooted in reality?
	If you say (ii), then NO DIALOG is ever possible between two parties.
	If your choice is (i), then I have to ask you in all earnestness
	for evidence of forced conversions (in significant numbers) into Islam
	in the Subcontinent. As far as I know, no such evidence exists which
	(for me) puts the conversion issue as a generator of conflict under
	the category of misperceptions. (The evidence for there having been
	a Ram temple at the site of Babri Masjid is also largely wanting.)
	Even if such evidence existed, does not the absence of a large scale
	Hindu-Christian conflict - even in the face of sufficient evidence
	for forced conversions into Christianity and Christianity
	too being an "invader religion" - tell you that such issues are
	not fundamental to the Hindu-Muslim conflict, rather they are merely 
	manifestations of it? Equally similarly, why is there a Hindu-Sikh
	(or however you wish to see it) conflict? To "counter-point" fingers,
	can I conclude that since the majority community is the common party 
	in all communal conflicts, Hindus are prone to treating minorities
	shabbily? Would that be a fair assessment of the current situation
	in India?
	Finally, since you mooted the idea of a dialog, what *are* the Hindu
	grievences and which ones, in your opinion, are legitimate? I am really 
	interested to know. 
							- Nagarajan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Treatment of Minorities in Bangladesh
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 04:28:06 GMT


In article <1992Apr13.225623.6742@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju) writes:

> Minorities in Bangladesh:
> 
> Year		% of population
> 1941		29.3
> 1951		23.1
> 1961		19.6
> 1974		14.3
> 1981		13.3

Figures like this are extremely misleading because they do not account
for the differences in birth and death rates between various groups,
and for migration patterns among various groups.  Add the fact that
the birth of Pakistan took place between the dates of 1941 and 1951,
and there is another major reason for the big demographic changes
between those two dates.  A steady movement of population to unite
families separated at partition accounts for further changes over the
years.

I would be very interested in hearing where G.R. Chowdhury obtained
these statistics from.  I didn't realize that a census was carried out
so frequently.  There appears to be a remarkable drop between 1961 and
1974.  I would suspect that the 1971 war had much to do with it.  The
Pakistani forces targetted Hindus and intellectuals first, even though
they did not seem to discriminate when it came to shooting people
(they pretty much shot everything in sight).  That resulted in many
Hindus packing their bags and fleeing to India, from where a large
number never returned after independence.

-- Shakil




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: banerj@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov ()
Subject: Re: Stop Genocide, the film
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:51:25 GMT

In article <kuriqjINN59j@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> kabir@kabir.Eng.Sun.COM (Ihtisham Kabir) writes:
>
>I remember meeting a Bangladeshi gentleman in Chicago in the late 1970s
>who was in Dhaka University on March 25, 1971. He had a movie camera
>with him at that time and he said that he made movies of the Pakistani
>soldiers lining up and shooting people from his window.
>
>He had a dramatic personality and I still recall my hair standing on
>edge as he described the risks he took by peeking out of the curtains
>and running his movie camera. For the life of me I can't recall his 
>name, or whether he ever saved those movies. I suppose if there is
>sufficient interest I could try to find out from the people in whose
>house I met him.

In 1972 Delhi Doordarshan (TV) actually showed such a movie. May be it was
the same one. The picture was not very clear having been shot from far
and later copied several times, finally onto tape I think. It was
really disturbing - groups of individuals being dragged out of the buildings,
made to stand in the middle of a courtyard and shot, their bodies falling on
to an already existing pile of bodies. The movie was shot from the professor's
- I think he was a prof. - window or balcony on the second/third floor. Was
it his official quarters? As I remember it the victims were students - was it
Jagannath Hall? I'm sorry that after twenty years I can't recall any more
details but the pictures are pretty vivid in my mind.

There was also a documentary made by the highly-regarded Indian documentary
director Sukhdev. The name was "Nine Months to Freedom" I think. It was
made after the liberation of B'desh but may have contained footage shot
during or before the 14-day war. I saw a brief excerpt of it on TV and that
was rather gruesome in itself. 

Amitava

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: mahmud-mehdi@CS.YALE.EDU (Mehdi Mahmud)
Subject: Re: london and the mai'm
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 07:19:18 GMT

In article <ZEESHAN.92Apr15143303@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan) writes:
>
>	Regarding London, the things that stick in my mind most are
>the filthy black buildings and the homeless.

	Ahhh...but then you must have been looking at London with 
prejudiced eyes! London, I regret to admit, is a truly wonderful city!
Now, if only it were possible to move American people to Britain and
British people to America... 
-- 
~       Mehdi Asif Mahmud            | " If I had to choose between betraying ~
~       P.O. Box 688 Yale Station    |   my country and betraying my friends, ~
~       New Haven, CT 06520          |   I hope I should have the guts to     ~
~       Phone #(203) 436-1094        |   betray my country. "                 ~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Stop Genocide, the film
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:16:51 GMT


Was speaking to Tarek Masud [info on his forthcoming 'Mikthir Gan' was posted
on scb while back]. Deepressing info on film archives. Shurjo Dighol Bari
had subtitles, missing somewhere in Europe [?]. Stop Genocide, the only 
available documentation on 71 that i have ever seen-- only poor quality 
prints left. Very saddening. Guess it will be back to Satyajit Ray films
at Oberlin next year.

--
Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: MINORITY DISCRIMINATION IN B.D? REALLY?
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 04:49:26 GMT

The controversy about Treatment of minorities in Bangladesh and my two bit 
input
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

	I have been following the recent controversy in the net about treatment 
of minority groups in Bangladesh. Throughout this controversial discussion I
have had the oppurtunity of reading some scholarly opinions from fellow
netters in SCB. I also have had the chance to read some statistics about
the percentage of minority hiring in Bangladesh. Interesting...
	I was wondering. Have the minority member in this discussion ever
experience any mistreatment or discrimination in Bangladesh. Just wondering...
	Late Shuvo Nobo Borsho every body. I hope this Bengali New year
brings an end to the mistreatment of ethnic groups in Bangladesh(After all
we are more Bengali culture oriented than our respective religions!)

	Shuveccha,
    

******************************************************************************
   Asif Ibrahim                                      Ij21@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
   866,W.Collins                                     Ij21@vm.acs.unt.edu
   Denton                                            Ka23@vm.acs.unt.edu
   Tx:76201                                          817-381-9982
******************************************************************************
From: AHMEDF@BELOIT.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: i was so upset, i messed up....
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:22:00 GMT

From:	IN%"postmaster@beloit.edu"  "PMDF Mail Server" 10-APR-1992 15:21:04.20
To:	IN%"AHMEDF@beloit.edu"
CC:	
Subj:	Undeliverable mail: local delivery failure

Received: from beloit.edu by beloit.edu (PMDF #12004) id
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:20 CDT
From: PMDF Mail Server <postmaster@beloit.edu>
Subject: Undeliverable mail: local delivery failure
To: AHMEDF@beloit.edu
Message-id: <01GIOQNM9UZ48WW2P3@beloit.edu>

The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: SOC-CULTURE-BANGLADESH
Reason: 
  %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user SOC-CULTURE-BANGLADESH at node BELSCI

----------------------------------------

Received: from beloit.edu by beloit.edu (PMDF #12004) id
 <01GIOQMXCLO48WW2PA@beloit.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:19 CDT
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:19 CDT
From: AHMEDF@beloit.edu
Subject: ZERO
To: SOC-CULTURE-BANGLADESH@beloit.edu
Message-id: <01GIOQMXCLO48WW2PA@beloit.edu>
X-VMS-To: IN%"SOC-CULTURE-BANGLADESH"

OH WELL, SO MUCH FOR THE SOURCES. I ACTUALLY TRIED GETTING IT FOR Y'LL, 
BUT WHAT HAPPENS INSTEAD?!? **MY DISK GETS A VIRUS!!!!!***
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
OH, I'M ON CAPS LOCK... sorry. NO, I THINK THAT SINCE I'VE JUST FOUND OUT
THAT MY DISK IS STONED (THAT'S THE NAME OF THE VIRUS), I HAVE THE DAMN
RIGHT TO BE ON CAPS LOCK!!!!!!!
ok, tirade over.... sorry, can't seem to get it for you, until i can disinfect
my disk.... i make it sound as if it's HIV+.....
:~{ sniff.
but the real reason i'm writing all this....sorry, didn't mean to explode on
the net...is because i wanted to know where anil got his information about
a bengali inventing zero? i heard this too, and couldn't find any documentation.
so i was hoping that if you, or anyone else knows about this, please vax me
a message before WEDNESDAY (the 15th).
thanks again....
Famin.
From: umera%msu.dnet@TERRA.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU (Ruhul Amin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: test
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:10:16 GMT

this is a test  please ignore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: treatment of minority footnote
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:47:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.225623.6742@doug.cae.wisc.edu> budaraju@cae.wisc.edu (Srinivas Budaraju) writes:

   Following are excerpts from "Unnatural Disasters" by G.R. Chowdhury,
   Cultural Survival Quarterly, Winter 1992, PP 14-17. 


.[T]he Pakistani army has killed three million people in nine
   months during the course of Bangladesh's 1971 war of independence. Ten
   million refugees took shelter in India. Most victims were members of the
   Hindu minority.
-------
Majority of the 3 million dead were Hindu? Could you please post G R 
Chowdhury's footnotes on this items?


   ...under the [Enemy Property Act] the government can confiscate minority
   properties and businesses with no compensation or notice simply by declaring
   a person to be an enemy of the state. 
-------
This is also well documented in "Byshomyer shikar Bangladesh er Hindu 
Shomproday"

			 This wave reached its height with the destruction
   or desecration of perhaps 80 % of Bangladesh's Hindu-Buddhist temples 
   and the devastation of thousands of Hindu homes and businesses between
   October 30 and November 1, 1990...
---------
Could you please supply the footnote for this statistic as well? Awami 
League workers claimed that the attacks on Hindu homes were engineered
by Pres. Ershad's ruling Jatiyo party to distract attention from the
anti govt riots that were reaching their peak at the time. Indeed, the
govt's first move was to clamp dawn to dusk curfew, which effectively
stopped anti govt demos from forming (This action is particularly curious
when you consider that Ershad govt passed bill to make Islam state religion
and is therefore hardly beacon of secularism).

--
Naeem Mohaiemen  naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu  snm8696@oberlin  216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"God forbid if Pakistan should ever break up"
				[Gulam Azam, press conference]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: umera%msu.dnet@TERRA.OSCS.MONTANA.EDU (Ruhul Amin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Anyone in Japan on this net?
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:19:07 GMT

Is there anyone on this net who lives in Japan?  I like to get some 
information from Japan.  I would be appreciative if you could respond
to me to the following e-mail address.

Thanks in advance.

-- Ruhul Amin

================================================================================
| Department of Mechanical Engineering | INTERNATE  umera@msu.oscs.montana.edu |
| Montana State University             | BITNET     umera@mtsunix1             |
| Bozeman, Montana 59717, U.S.A.       | PHONE      406-994-6295               |
================================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: was@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (wasif.sattar)
Subject: Re: Jamaat's rise in power
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:13:22 GMT
Summary: Amnesty

In article <1992Apr15.175038.15308@udel.edu>, kazi@bugs.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
> In article <NAEEM.92Apr14171314@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:

> >Mujib govt: General amnesty, in defiance of angry protests from committee of 
> >relatives of war dead [including Johir Raihan, etc].
> 
> What is the legal implication of the general amnesty? If the trial of Golam
> Azam and other razakars do go ahead, would this require a bill to overturn
> the amnesty order? 

I am not sure if the general amnesty given in 1972 was a formal one. I
think it was more of an informal/verbal one. I think it was not passed by
by a decree or by parliament after having been debated upon. If it was 
indeed an informal proclamation the amnesty can be easily overturned by
virtue of its being extra-constitutional or unconstitutional.
 
> Since most of Bangladesh's legal system has been derived from the British
> Common Law, I assume there is a statute of limitations to many felonies.
> Then again, under international law, murder or genocide has no statute of
> limitations. I would hope all these legal loopholes, if they do exist, are
> plugged properly before the much awaited trial commences. I would hate to
> see these criminals get acquitted on technicalities.

The fact that genocide (under international law) has no statute of
limitations would take precedence over Bangladesh's laws. Everything
depends upon the govt. in power. They can quickly bring to justice all
the felons that are now within our reach and also request the Pakistan
govt. to hand us back the ones that we had let go in 1972. They can
also just sit there and do nothing except put the bigwigs under protective
custody.
 
> -- Zunaid Kazi

Wasif Sattar (was@lcuxlm.att.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan)
Subject: Re: london and the mai'm
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
	<1992Apr15.165256.6431@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:33:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.165256.6431@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:

>   I just got back from pakistan via london.
>   Landing in london was like a dream come true, i have finally landed in 
>   the capiol of the british empire it is like going to pilgrimage. An 
>   awesome expierence !!!!!!!!

	Really?  Personally, I have never understood the awe with
which many people still regard the former colonial institutions of the
West, particularly those of the English.  It seems very misplaced,
when one considers the immeasurable harm that the imperialist policies
of the last few centuries did to our part of the world.
	Regarding London, the things that stick in my mind most are
the filthy black buildings and the homeless.

farewell-
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
   Zeeshan Hasan			OCMR box 1529, Oberlin College
   zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu		Oberlin, Ohio 44074
   skh7063@oberlin.bitnet		(216) 775-5423
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
	"I love mankind... it's people I can't stand!"   
						- Linus Van Pelt    




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh