HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:22:39 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk
>If imported coal becomes more expensive as a result of the devaluation,
>surely that makes British coal more competitive?

Well, it would be more competitive were it not for the fact
that once coal mines are closed and unmaintained they can't be
re-opened again. Same goes for many other industries which are
now too far gone to be brought back again even if devaluation
makes them competitive. So we must still rely on imports, even
though they cost more. That's why the government tried so hard
to avoid devaluation.

Matthew Huntbach
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Free Trade (was Re: Currency Problems)
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:14:02 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <JIM.92Oct1105400@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>British Coal produces the cheapest deep mined coal in Western Europe.
>It's too simplistic to just compare the cost of domestic coal with
>imports. This ignores the impact on other economic factors - balance
>of payments, GDP, unemployment, and so on - as well as environmental
>considerations and the strategic issue of a stable, long-term energy
>source. It is insane for an island built on coal to be importing the
>stuff.

It is insane for an island which has such high labour costs to be
using its human resources to mine coal. Exploitation of natural resources
is only viable when
  - you control a large part of the world supply
  - extraction isn't expensive compared to world averages (this is true
    of British oilfields, for example)
  - you can turn the raw materials (bauxite, beef etc.) into processed
    exports.
_None_ of these is true of British coal.

>Another point is that the biggest power stations are right next to
>British Coal's mines. The coal comes out the ground and straight into
>the power station. With imports, millions of tons of coal will have to
>be shipped by rail or road to these power stations.

British coal is already the largest user of Britain's canal system.
This could be used by imported coal (it is government-subsidised).
And surely the whole point of most arguments about future viability of
British coal is more flexiblity in opening up new fields, and not
continuing with uneconomic pits just because, say, they are next to
power stations?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13171 soc.culture.celtic:6299
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:00:59 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <BvByEC.9Jt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
> I write:
>>Let's have a Scottish group, and keep Celtic racialism out of it.
>>I mean, I don't even know whether I'm 0% or 100% Celtic, and I don't care!
>
>Being Celtic is *not* a racial priviledge, it is a cultural and linguistic
>milieau, and a matter of degree.  And if you don't care, you don't
>count.

This sort of attitude is precisely why we need soc.culture.scottish.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:06:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.171112.17766@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>In article <qh3lks4@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep30.161623.15259@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:

	[Deletions of material not germane to my observations.]

>
>>Right, what Japan did as a country is not too different to what
>>a company does.   It invested current wealth in future products
>>and production.
>
>>In both Germany and Japan, tax money is spent more on
>>infrastructure, education, telecommunications, the promotion
>>of industry, and research and development, and less on propping
>>up antiquated industries.
>
>>As in Germany, companies in Japan seem to
>>both take a longer view of investment, and also have more
>>confidence that the fruits of that investment will not be
>>confiscated by the Government in pursuit of whatever crazy
>>scheme the socialists have dreamed up this month.
>
	I think we should remember that Germany and Japan started
	their industries from essentially zero after WWII.  The
	destruction of the industrial base meant that both countries
	were able to look at what they had been doing right and wrong
	and to build a structure based on the strengths of the old system.
	The best example is the way that German trade union legislation was
	draughted by British and U.S. trade unionists.

	In comparison, British industry was battered but intact.  As victors
	there was no need to worry about our industrial capacity (In other
	groups there would be a smiley here.).

	One may also consider that in some industries the state of affairs
	was so bad that any decision was difficult.  It was therefore
	possible, if not necessary, to look to the long term.  In Germany and
	Japan, the generation that experienced the destruction and rebuilding
	is approaching retirement.  It will be interesting to see how their
	successors behave.


	Alec Chambers.
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 18:53:46 GMT

Graham Walker writes:
	
	This is to assume that he was the guy who lived in Stratford. I
	personally arge with the group who believe that he was the Earl of
	Oxford (I forget his exact title). In which case he was doing it for
	reason other than making a living.



Current research has now proved conclusively that Shakespeare's plays
were written by a different person of the same name.



:-)


William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13096 talk.religion.misc:17272
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: In response to Jon Livesey, also stand on EC, Maastricht and the
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:57:35 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca's message of 28 Sep 92 11:56:10 GMT

In article <Bc9sRB6w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:

   Wait a moment.  Both Hitler and Napoleon, more so Hitler, HAD the
   DEMOCRATIC backing of their people before they went on their corruption
   rampage. 

Didn't Hitler's party have *less* than 50% of the Reichstag?  They got their
majority by various maneouvres after the election, I thought.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Some of my best friends are speculators
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:31:48 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
In article <1992Sep28.171243.7759@rz-berlin.mpg.de> gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de writes:
>>> 4) Why are we unable to break this boom'n'bust cycle when others can?
>>
>>  Because the British Electorate, for a multitude of reasons, refuse to
>>vote for anyone who points out that a little national belt-tightening
>>might be in order.
>>
>This I can well believe. They have the same trouble over here. Once they have
>been told that they can have something for nothing, the punters are loath to
>give it up. Mebbe Perot can hold their feet to the fire.

The British Electorate has for the past four general elections
voted in a party whose main platform is belt-tightening. It
ought to be obvious after this latest crisis that the loony
right are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater)
Subject: Re: Some of my best friends are speculators
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 06:38:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.125051.7754@rz-berlin.mpg.de> gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de writes:
>
>  My article was meant as a criticism of the failure of political
>responsibility in Britain.  The contrast between the willingness
>of the Germans to take preventative measures to forestall inflation
>(when not hampered by a unity-obsessed chancellor) and the persistant
>pedalling of soft options, magic cures and crisis management by
>british politicians of all hues is dramatic and depressing.

This is an interesting assertion, to which I respond with a number of
questions:

1) Do you include Maggie in this group?
2) What specifically were the preventative meaures the Germans took?
3) If Struan is right then the political debate in Britain must be seriously
   badly aimed, why is this so?
4) Why are we unable to break this boom'n'bust cycle when others can?
5) Er ...
6) That's probably not it, but its the best I can do at the moment.

(PS - sorry if any of this got thrashed out earlier but we were newsless for
a week).

Tin.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mpragnell@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Marlon Pragnell)
Subject: Anyone listening from Brighton UK?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:41:00 GMT

Hello!  I am trying to get in contact with my brother
who is a bohemian-type artist in Brighton.  Do you know
how a person may get access to the net if they are not 
associated with a university or company with net
accessibility?   

Thanks.

Marlon Pragnell
mpragnell@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13337 rec.arts.books:17326
From: igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:22:32 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1992Sep30.144829.8900@infonode.ingr.com> palmerc@abulafia.b21.ingr.com (Christopher M. Palmer) writes:
> I have trouble "getting into" a play which I
> have never seen performed

Oddly enough, I was exposed to an American perspective on this a few
years ago.  For me, my closest (time-wise) theatre is the RSC at
Stratford, so I tend to see almost everything done in each of the three
spaces.  We had some people from the US over to work on some device
drivers and they asked what was on and good at Stratford.  At the time
the Hytner/Wood ``Tempest'' was running: one of the best productions in
the main theatre in the past few years.  Off they went.  One of them
returned saying that she had studied the play as part of her degree, but
had never seen it.

How can you study a play without seeing it?  Even if you can, what is
the point?  Esepcially as theatrical play as ``Tempest''?

ian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:03:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.211359.19028@udel.edu>, slking%epx.cis.umn.edu (Simon King) writes:
|> the Germans have been known to call us "Inseln-Affen" = island apes.

Then there's the marvelous French term: Rosbif, nice try France, you'd better
bring on the Joker for that one.


Personally I like the Bavarian "Verschwendungsuchtigeschwaben" == The Scots.

Basically it means that the Scots are the people kicked out from Schwabia for
being too generous.   Still the average none German would have difficulty
reading the word, let alone feeling abused by it.

David.
From: haverkam@uni-duesseldorf.de (Wilhelm Haverkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Anyone listening in St. Andrews?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:29:16 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: haverkamp.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

I am looking for the e-mail address of my cousin
Caecilia Briscoe (born as Caecilia Albers).
As far as I know Mrs Briscoe is working
in the Medical Department of St Andrew University.
Any help will be appreciated.

Regards Wilhelm Haverkamp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: quigley@acs.ucalgary.ca (Martyn Thomas Quigley)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 02:36:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>
>The reform was instituted by neither Harold Wilson nor Shirley
>Williams. The standard pattern of education as set up in the
>1940 was that children were tested at the age of 11, the top
>20% or so going off to "grammar schools", the rest to
>"secondary modern schools". However, local authorities were
>free to choose for themselves how their children would be
>educated, and some chose to have schools to which all children
>were sent, termed "comprehensive".

Well, true up to a point.  But by 1964 only Anglesey was completely
comprehensive, and only Devon, London, Coventry and Bristol had significant
numbers of comprehensive schools.
>
>During the 1960s and 1970s many local authorities chose to
>switch from selective systems to comprehensive systems. 

No, this may be true in word, it is not true in spirit.  Circular 
10/65 (issued by the Secretary of State in 1965 (hence the /65)) 
'requested' the LEAs 'to prepare and submit to him plans for 
reorganising secondary education on comprehensive lines'.  Successive 
secretaries of states indicated that legislation would be enacted if 
LEAs failed to act as 'requested'.

>education, and as it happens the minister who agreed to the
>most such conversions was the minister during the 1970-74
>government, one Margaret Thatcher.

Quite so.  Thatcher was the legal instrument for the closing of more
grammar schools than any other secretary of state in history.
Her very first act as SoS was circular 10/70 which withdrew
circular 10/65.  Even so, the justice of removing selection and
segregation had created so much momentum that even she could not
resist it.

>As for the idea that comprehensives are about "dragging down",
>in fact most comprehensives continue to divide pupils into
>streams depending on their ability, 

This is simply not true.  Streaming has almost completely vanished.

>Matthew Huntbach

Let's try and stick to the facts shall we?  

Martyn
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Date: 3 Oct 92 22:35:27 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
>> / hpopd:soc.culture.british / torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen):
>>   In cases of this kind, the question is to what extent we should take into
>> account, not how we who use the term regard it, but how those referred to
>> react. In the case of "Jap" it has emerged in soc.culture.japan that some
>> Japanese at least consider it highly offensive.
>
> When I used [jap] that time, I just didn't see what the difference was from
> the receiver's point of view.  I got flamed by several people for using it,
> but NOT ONE explained WHY I shouldn't.  So if you can enlighten me, great.

I thought Torkel had just tried to enlighten you.  Some Japanese find it
offensive.  Isn't that enough?

> Until people stop assuming that something that is offensive to them is used
> by the addresser in the *knowledge* that it offends, we'll all have to walk
> on eggshells, since so much seems to offend *someone*.

Saying something offensive is insensitive at the least.  Yes, you _should_
think of yourself as walking on eggshells when discussing cultures,
religions etc that you know nothing about.  Why should others continually
be expected to give the offender the benefit of the doubt?  (This takes us
back to the Ugly American Abroad discussions).

> My fond wish is that people will think a bit more about whether there is
> mean intent behind a term and react accordingly.

Your fond wish would be much more acceptable if it was that people were
more sensitive to the sensibilities of others, and act accordingly.

> It's a lot easier for all than straining to be PC all the time.

Yes, it's certainly a lot less effort to ignore other peoples feelings, but
it's got nothing to do with political correctness attempting to have
empathy for them.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes night
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:07:33 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Sep28.164023.22610@osf.org>, by dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks):
> "Bob-a-Job"?
> -- 
> David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
> (who remembers slaving in the hot sun for 3 hours and getting paid a
> shilling by a literal-minded old skinflint)

Know the feeling. The Scout Association have turned it into 'Job Week'
with no price specified.

Andy
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 5 Oct 92 08:27:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
>There's another fallacy here, which is that Scargill is
>suggesting, it appears, that if you detect some foreigner is
>subsidisng his product, you should subsidise your own to keep
>him out of your market.    Competitive subsidies are always
>pointless, for they lead nowhere, except to increase everyone's
>taxes.

There was an intersesting article in yesterday's "Observer",
headlined "British Computer Industry is Dead", pointing out
that all the microchip industries that in the early 80s looked
so promising have been privatised, brought up by foreigners
and the work transferred abroad (ironically, in the case of
transputers the company buying out Britain was a French
state-owned company).

Weren't microchips supposed to be one of those hi-tech
industries that would replace nasty dirty coal-mining and all
those other industries that we are supposed no longer to need?
What exactly *is* it that Britain is going to make or do that
it can trade with the rest of the world? *When* is Britain
going to triumph over these poor foreigners who have mistakenly
been putting government investment into developing modern
industries?

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: yvonne@well.sf.ca.us (Yvonne Lee)
Subject: Re: Anyone Listening in GUERNSEY or JERSEY
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:58:58 GMT

In <13649@pogo.wv.tek.com> pierre@pogo.wv.tek.com (Pierre L. Sangan) writes:

>I am wanting to establish EMAIL link's with Guernsey. If anyone is reading this please
>reply or if anyone knows of an EMAIL address there, let me know.

Must be some New Ager into CHANNELING.

>Thank's in advance !

>Pierre.
>-- 
>Pierre L. Sangan                    pierre@pogo.wv.tek.con
>Tektronix Inc. (GPID)
>M/S 63-630, 26600 SW Parkway
>Wilsonville OR 97070
-- 
*****************************************************************
yvonne_lee@infoworld.com   (preferred email reply address)
yvonne@well.sf.ca.us       (news account) (415) 312-0571 w  (415) 968-3132 h
*****************************************************************
From: daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:21:52 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <BvDLpy.EM6@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, streater@unixjr.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Tim Streater) writes:
> In article <1992Sep29.161657.14744@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>>
>>(We're even importing COAL, for heaven's sake.  Even after the
>>devaluation, the government is planning to go ahead with the closure of
>>another bunch of British coal pits, and the power companies are
>>
> Certainly it should be imported given how much cheaper imported coal is. That
> will reduce the cost of energy to the consumer and to industry, which will
> improve people's standard of living (a bit) and make British industry more
> competitive. Isn't this a Good Thing?
> 
> tin.

If imported coal becomes more expensive as a result of the devaluation, surely
that makes British coal more competitive?

Dave
-- 

David Hastings                      | "Imposition of order=escalation of chaos"
VAX Systems Programmer              |                     
Oxford University Computing Services| "Just when you think you've won the 
daveh@vax.oxford.ac.uk              |        rat race, along come faster rats"
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: My wife's gon to the West Indies
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:16:28 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Oct2.075616.11596@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> From: roy@willow.ccsf.caltech.edu
>>Can anyone think of any more of these? How about Cuba, Durban, Djibouti?
> 
> My wife's gone to Italy.
> Genoa?
> Of course I do, she's my wife.
In similar vein:
Man in garden, sawing wood planks; neighbour looks over fence:
"How's the wife?"
"Sick indoors."
"'Sthat her coughin'?"
"No, it's a dog kennel."
-- 
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13495 soc.culture.celtic:6434
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:34:48 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>>Let's have a Scottish group, and keep Celtic racialism out of it.
>>I mean, I don't even know whether I'm 0% or 100% Celtic, and I don't care!
>
>Being Celtic is *not* a racial priviledge, it is a cultural and linguistic
>milieau, and a matter of degree.

No need to be pedantic about the use of the term "racialism", Alasdair was
alluding to the N.Ireland wars that frequently flare up in this newsgoup.

You can certainly argue that a part of the celtic milieu is common
linguistic roots, but most Scots speak Scots English, are are not
particularly interested in Gaelic.  There's not much else in common either
between the _current_ everyday culture of say Brittany and Scotland.
Everday lives and interests even between the Scots and Irish are different
except that they enjoy each other's folk music!

>  And if you don't care, you don't count.

Thanks, Michael, indeed he doesn't _want_ to count here in the .celtic
group, he wants a .scottish group for more relevance to current Scottish
culture.

On balance I think we should certainly try to have a .scottish newsgroup
created, but I'm a little worried that we won't get the required support.
Even now, there's hardly been more than 8 or 10 people who've posted on the
subject.

Let's have a straw poll.  I don't want to force myself in here as I wasn't
the original person who proposed it (this time), but no-one else seems to
be taking any action.  If you email me if you're in favour, I'll publish
the results and then call officially for the discussion/vote procedure in
news.announce.newgroups (or let someone else do so) if there seems a
possibility that we'll get the required support.

[BTW, I _am_ a Scot, married to a Scot, born in Edinburgh, attended
Heriot-Watt University (was president of the SRC), worked in the School of
Artificial Intelligence (then the Department of Machine Intelligence &
Perception) at Edinburgh University, and maintain close ties with Edinburgh
and area]

Email connection through  ..!uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray  is generally
reliable.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home  |  Beaconsfield,  Quebec,  Canada.
(514) 630 3749    |  ray@philmtl.philips.ca  or  ..uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british