HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: b0k2481@zeus.tamu.edu (KIM, BYUNGSEON)
Subject: KCIA
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:26:00 GMT

In article <86076@netnews.upenn.edu>, dww@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Grand master tong) writes...

> 
>I would like to apologise if I offended you or other Koreans with my words;    maybe I was careless when using them.PLease think nothing of it.
>I was careless when using them. Please think nothing of it.

Dear Denny, (it's much better than GMT, Tong, Wong, etc.)

Your apology accepted to me but I don't know the other guys.
Let's talk more constructively from now on.

BTW, Mr. Han N. Kim, what is KCIA?  I am on this net group only two weeks.
Would you tell me more about this?
And, Brian, I like your qoute.  What series of Star Trek did Nimoy say that?

B. Sean Kim.........................

P.S. Please call me Byungseon.  If you have trouble with pronouncing it,
Sean is o.k. too.
From: tvf@cci632.cci.com (Tom Frauenhofer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Chinese questions
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:04:55 GMT
Organization: Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <86025@netnews.upenn.edu> dww@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Grand master tong) writes:
>About your calling me scatterbrained . PLease remeber I originally posted
>it as a question, not an answer.
>
>I did not say:
>
>The average Korean has an Uzi
>
>I said :
>
>Do they.......?

Yeah, sure, when a Korean is born the afterbirth contains a manual on using
Semi-automatic weapons.  My children are only half-Korean, so all they got
was a manual on how to load a B-B gun.  My wife's family, caring souls that
they are, now have helped my 2-year old work up to a .22.  My daughter
moonlights for SWAT teams.

Oh, :-)

>And I made sure I preceded that with the statement:
>
>"from a layman's observation......"
>        ^^^^^^^
>
>I also ended with:
>
>"Is this generalization true?"
>
>This all goes on to show that, being human, I cannot but help making
>generalizations based on what I see on the TV since I don't know
>much about Koreans. It was up to me to humbly ask for better knowleged
>peole for their opinion, which I did.
>I did not make a statement, I asked a question and was answered, albeit 
>rudely, but thanks everyone for responding anyhow.

My ancestors are German.  Does that mean you should assume that I walk
around with pictures of guys wearing funny mustaches and propellers on their
sleeves?  What picture pops into your mind based on the last sentence?  I
may have worded it in a funny way, but to some people it's a pretty
horrifying image.

Put it another way - my wife is Korean.  My children have Korean blood and
looks.  I'd love to whap on the head the next idiot who comes up to me when
I'm alone with my kids and says to me "Beautiful Children.  Are they
adopted?"  Think of it:

- One day my children may become worried that they are adopted, even though
they aren't.  They'll certainly ask about it.

- Even if they were adopted, when would I tell them?  When I, as a parent,
thought they could handle it, of course.  Idiots who walk up to people and
ask them if their children are adopted might be broaching a subject in front
of people (the kids) who may not know, and could accidentally harm a
parent's relationship with their kids.

(BTW, replace the question above with "From a layman's observation your
children don't look like you.  Are they adopted?" and maybe you can see how
much colder it sounds).

>Bye.
>
>P.S. Logic reigns supreme during debates   
>   

Logic is only as strong as the foundation of axioms it has been built upon.
The above logic is flawed and fairly insensitive to the audience you were
addressing.
--
Thomas V. Frauenhofer, WA2YYW, tvf@cci.com, ...!uunet!uupsi!cci632!tvf
Mandlebratwurst: The Meal that Eats Itself!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.korean:3804 soc.culture.asian.american:8353 soc.culture.asean:5635
From: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:03:02 GMT

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>I think you are confused with the different chinese groups that are involved in
>>WWII. There are four groups which I can think of:
>>1. Mainland chinese 2. Taiwanese  3. oversea chinese that are directly
>>affected by the war. 4. Oversea chinese that are not directly affected.
>>I believe that malaysian chinese belongs to group 3.
>
>What kind of crap is this?
>
>The "overseas Chinese" are _not_ Chinese.  They are Americans, French, etc.
>I just "love" it when a Chines-cu twit lumps them all under the label
>Chinese.

Dwight, you have *no* clue what you're talking about.  None whatsoever.
*You're* the one who's lumping all Chinese responding to you into the same
"Chinese-cu" category, accusing them of crimes against humanity!  For
Christ's sake, Dwight, these people are from *Singapore*, not *China*!
What do the 228 Incident, the occupation of Tibet, the Great Leap Forward,
the Cultural Revolution, or Tiananmen Square have to do with them??!!

(Sorry, I'm getting a little worked up here.  What's Ian Chai's phrase?
"My sprinkler systems must be malfunctioning.")

And where does this unreasoning self-hatred come from, anyway?  I really
want to know.  So if you'd just share your life history with us, rather
than going on and on about Chinese crimes against humanity, I'm sure we'd 
all appreciate it.  Follow-ups directed to soc.culture.asian.american.

--
Russil Wvong
russil@idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
From: guohsu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Subject: Re: Chinese questions
Reply-To: guohsu@mercury.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 09:46:54 GMT

In article <1473700026@igc.org> An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.org> writes:
>
>living in Korea for about 4 years, I felt more "violence" here, than i.e. in
>Taiwan, where I stayed before. But I don't believe, that Koreans or Asians
>are more or less "violent" than other people, as i.e. the history of my country
>(Germany) showed - and the present time with lots of killing fields on too many
>places in this world.
>
>As for Korea, violence here probably is related to a feeling of helplessness
>facing a hostile environment (in the recent history) and the incapability to
>rely on laws and regulations - in a time, where even the leadership of
>a country can brake the law  o p e n l y, i.e by not holding elections, as
>required by law.
>
>As for "the" Asians, there is a interesting book from Bo Yang, "The ugly
>Chinamen", basically more a critizism on Confucianism and it consequences.
>It isn't really a claim, that "Chinamen" are ugly, but a book from someone,
>who feels sorry, what Chinese do to themselves.
>
>Bo Yang's (Paek Yang in Korean) book exist in two pirated an non-authorized
>copies in Korea. One third publisher then asked Bo Yang to produce an autho-
>rized copy in Korea, however, some parts should be changed as they (due to
>some similarities between Koreans and Chinese) could insult Korean readers.
>Bo Yang did not agree to that, so the publisher now went ahead to publish
>the book (now a third version!) unauthorized - and without payment to Bo Yang.
>
>okBo Yang - by the way - lives in Taiwan, now in his own house after having
>been imprisoned in Taiwan for 10 years. Besides being a writer, he also is
>a gouvernment employee. Thats the Confucian way to compensate him without
>face loss to the gouvernment :-)
>
>Goetz Kluge
>anlyyao@igc.apc.org
>Seoul 1992/08/13
>Korea
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Goetz,

The word "Chinamen" you used to translate the name of the book by Bo Yang
is insulting to Chinese people. Be aware of it, and correct it next time,
please.
   As for the book "The Ugly Chinese" by Bo Yang, had received considerable
critism in China, not to mention the author's many incorrect translations
from ancient literature to modern language and his deficient knoweledge in 
Chinese history, he did a lot of generalisations, many statements he made
about mainland(after 1949) are inaccurate and misleading. People give more
credit to his book because of his good motivation behind it. 


Guo-Ching Hsu
guohsu@cs.uregina.ca
Regina, Canada
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: msdos based korean wp
From: Brendan_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Brendan Laing)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:24:08 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Hi,

Could somebody please mail me details of an ftp site that has msdos 
based Korean wordprocessor...
 
Thanks in advance...
 
See Ya

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean
From: lchsu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Leon Hsu)
Subject: Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:40:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.182318.6152@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>Do tell.  When was the last time that you, Mr. Murtagh, heard
>the Chinese apologize for the deaths that they caused?  Their
>victims number in the 100 million.

Wait a minute ... Let's look at your first 50 million or so deaths. You are
saying that the chinese should ask the chinese the apologize
for the deaths of chinese due to disease and famine?
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I don't think that makes a lot of 
sense. As to many of your other millions of deaths, most of
them were a result of barbarism on the part of the Totalitarian
government that hides under a communist name. I agree that 
the communist government in China should apologize to the
citizens for the attrocities it has committed and should 
be held accountable for those actions. I also think the KMT
goverment should apologize for it's wrongdoings and be held
accountable. As I understand it, they are slowly (probably
a bit too slowly) trying to do that now. I'm not an expert here,
but I'm sure someone can dig up the facts I need to support 
my point.

>The Chinese can spout the numbers killed in Nanjing easily, although
>the precise numbers who died are a lot less than what the Chinese
>say.  The Americans in Japan after the war assessed that only 20,000
>Chinese died in the Rape of Nanjing; this is far less than the
>200,000 that the Chinese claim.

Maybe some Americans in Japan estimated the death toll at 20,000.
Some Americans also estimate the death toll in Germany at 100,000
Jews. Are you going to believe them too?

>
>(The Chinese have done the same bogey arguments concerning
>the TAM incident about 2 years ago.  They say that 2000 died, but
>actually, the figure was much closer to 200.)

Oh the figure was 200 was it? And just how do you know that? I
suppose you're going to tell us that you are omniscient now.


>
>If this isn't hypocrisy, what the hell is?

If your posts aren't utter stupidity? What is?
>Come on.  This is bull.

Yes Dwight ... you stepped right into the shit. Your own bullshit.


-leon.


-- 
Blood is the rose of mysterious union.
				-James Douglas Morrison.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jsoh@eng.auburn.edu (Jongsuck Oh)
Subject: Test
Summary: Test.... Test.... ! 
Reply-To: jsoh@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:28:20 GMT
From: cw@orion.uucp (C.W. Chung)
Subject: Re: Chinese questions
Organization: Objectivity Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:54:40 GMT

Well, it has been an interesting and informative discussion until the last few posting,
and it is turning ugly now.  (Even so, it is a lot milder than the flame war I have
seen in other news group).

    >In article <85891@netnews.upenn.edu> dww@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Grand master tong) writes:
    >>From a layman's observation, I have found that Koreans are more violent generally,
    >>compared to other Asian races; as seen by the shopkeepers wielding Uzi's
    >>and firing with abandon during the LA riots.
    >>Is this  generalization true?

I don't think the generalization is valid at all.  Take a look at the way
how discussion is handled in this group (compared with say scc), it got to be
is one of the most polite and well-mannered group I have seen.

However, I do believe Tong has nothing against Koreans in particularly, so it
is important to understand why Tong has such an impression.  

The answer lies, IMHO, in what the media is feeding us.  What do you see when
the networks news is covering Korea?  Outside of the setting of 88 Olympics, 
the one thing that stucks to my mind (as a TV viewer) is the
student riot.  It seems that student riot is the only thing happen
in town and is the only news worth reporting.  Same thing is true for Taiwan: 
the one thing that stuck to my mind is the fighting among the congress members
in the legislative council.  For HK, it probably is the repatriation of Vietnamese
boat people.  And for mainland China, it got to be the violation of human right
and the lack of democracy. 

So back to the impression on the characteristic of Korean people if you got your
information from TV: the frequent riot => people are violent, and reinforced by
the graphic image of Koreans in LA holding guns.

Of course, it is unfair and does not serve justice to the Korean people, but this
is a fact of life that American TV does a very poor job in portraying other 
countries.  Until that is changed, I would venture to say that the stereotype
probably will continue to stick.

(By the way, I think the Koreans are completely justified in defending themselves
using guns in the LA riot.  I probably would do the same thing too. However,
I am not sure if all TV viewers took it as a strictly defensive measure.)

-cw-
_____________________________________________________________________________
Chi Wo Chung    Objectivity Inc.      Object-Oriented DBMS  Tel: 415/688-8023
                800 El Camino Real,   Menlo Park CA 94025   Fax: 415/325-0939
                                      email: cw@objy.com    or  uunet!objy!cw
P.S. I am not Korean.  I am a Chinese from Hong Kong.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: zoon@cs.umd.edu (Sungzoon Cho)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Chung's Trio Concert
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:50:30 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <16085@pitt.UUCP> cho@cs.pitt.edu (Il-Hyung Cho) writes:
>Tonight(8/17), there was Chung's trio concert in Pusan.
> ...
>While they were playing a peace, there came a sudden 'tick' sound, and 
>they stopped playing: the cello string was broken.
>I've been at concerts many times, but never seen such happening before.
>For a moment, Myung-Hwa looked at a loss a little bit, but quickly gained 
>her composure.
>After replacing the string, they played again.
>It was a pretty good concert.
>
>Has anybody seen such happening at a concert?  I guess it's quite unusual.

  Yes, you're right.  It does not happen that often, but I've been in a
Juliard String Quartet concert at Library of Congress in DC where the 
violist's string got broken, then after a few minutes the cellist's string
got broken !!   The experienced players did not panic, but handled 
the situation pretty well.   I also heard Midori had her string broken 
a few times at her debut w/ NY Phil, but showed enormous composure 
when she calmly took the concertmaster's violin and finished the piece.

  BTW, does anyone know if Ms. Chung Kyung-Wha (violinist) is actively
travelling and giving performances around the world as she used to ?   
I overheard that she spends more time with her children than with the violin. 

  Sungzoon Cho 

  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: umin@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Un-Sig Min)
Subject: Re: An open letter to the Emperor Akihito of Japa
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:46:46 GMT

>In article <kim.920818121048@magneto.physics.auburn.edu>, news@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>> That is all. I want to love Japan even though I have something in my mind and
>> am suspicious on Japan. Hope some day Japan be a Big brother who is
>						 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> trustable.       
>
>No flaming is intended. 
>Ms. or Mr. Kim; I see your good will toward improvement of the
>relationship between Korea and Japan. But why Japan as "a Big
>brother"?  Why not we stand equally? Just reminds me of old bullshit 
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can we (Korea and Japan) ? 
I don't believe it will happen soon.
 Politics, Economics, Education and Technology  of Korea are inferior to 
 those of Japan.
 I cannot insist any superiority of korea at this moment.
 Please don't give me Olympics as a example.
 I am afraid that Korean may use Japanese capital in the future.  Then Japan
 will act as not only Big Brother but also God Father.

 
>
>Jung S. Lee

Un-Sig
From: An-Ly Yao <anlyyao@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:54 PDT
Subject: Korean diplomacy twds. China
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1473700028:000:976
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Aug 20 06:54:00 1992


 
soc.culture.korea
soc.culture.taiwan
 
it seems, that Korea will drop her relations to Taiwan and open diplomatic
ties with the PR China.
 
So far for "friendship", which - realistically speaking - doesn't work too
well in politics anyway. Korea might also be more interested in her northern
brothers and sisters than in in former allies in the South.
 
What do you think about this development? If it is unavoidable, what do you
think about the  w a y  in which the reorientation of Korean politics will
take place (so far, as it can be observed now)?
 
 
bye, Goetz Kluge
Seoul 1992/08/20
 
PS: In Korea now oppinion polls by private institutions are forbidden as well
    as the publication of their results. This had been ordered by the govern-
    ment after skipping local elections, without having taken the necessary
    legislative steps before. How nowerdays would be the reaction of people
    in Taiwan in case of such an event. Could it take place in Taiwan?
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: b0k2481@zeus.tamu.edu (KIM, BYUNGSEON)
Subject: Re: Chinese questions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:53:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.195440.19359@objy.com>, cw@orion.uucp (C.W. Chung) writes...
>Well, it has been an interesting and informative discussion until the last few posting,
>and it is turning ugly now.  (Even so, it is a lot milder than the flame war I have
>seen in other news group).

I agree totally. 


>However, I do believe Tong has nothing against Koreans in particularly, so it
>is important to understand why Tong has such an impression.  

I don't think Tong holds any grudge against Korea or Korean people either.
(S)he might be proud (?) of his/her origin (blood, nat nationality since
(s)he kept saying "I am not Chinese") but very ignorant about it.

As many Koreans cheered about a gold in marathon, (s)he was somewhat
envious and showed his/her stereotype and metaphorical superiority
complex using unsuitable words (mother China, derivative of China,
Impolite, generalization, logic, etc.).  You cannot blame people having
a prejudice about something and you don't have to elucidate them
individualism 'cause they don't listen, just call them "red-heads."

Why doesn't (s)he go to s.c.c and see how real (not fake) Chinese
rage about Olympics IMpolitely (Wong's word)?

>I am not a Korean.  IIam a Chinese from Hong Kong.

I am a Korean from Seoul.

B. Sean Kim ................................

Xref: sparky soc.culture.korean:3673 soc.culture.asian.american:8181 soc.culture.asean:5555
From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Korean diplomacy twds. China
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:38:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

>So far for "friendship", which - realistically speaking - doesn't work too
>well in politics anyway. Korea might also be more interested in her northern
>brothers and sisters than in in former allies in the South.
> 
>What do you think about this development? If it is unavoidable, what do you
>think about the  w a y  in which the reorientation of Korean politics will
>take place (so far, as it can be observed now)?

As long as Taiwan insists that its the lawful government of China
rather than an independent state, the reorientation was a matter
of time.

In terms of acting with honor, the Korean government has a real bad
record. Promises seem to be routinely broken (Roh promised an election
in the middle of his term), people who have served the government
loyally are routinely abandoned (ROK govt officials stranded in Vietnam). 
I won't be surprised if our (korean) government switches sides in a 
manner that the Taiwanese find truly distateful. 

Letting the PRC confisticate Taiwan's embassy seemed like adding
insult to injury. Taking over embassies might have to do with some 
wierd protocol amongst diplomats. But you'd think that our government 
would have at least told the Taiwanese in advance so that they could sell 
that piece of SUPER-expensive real estate. 

> 
>PS: In Korea now oppinion polls by private institutions are forbidden as well
>    as the publication of their results. This had been ordered by the govern-
>    ment after skipping local elections, without having taken the necessary
>    legislative steps before....

Can someone post the details about the skipping of local elections
and this ban on poll taking?

-Hanhwe Kim
From: kangeun@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Eun Kang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: What about China done to Korea?
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:39:21 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sung Hyun Kim) writes:

>In article <92Aug19.122140edt.108@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>
>>Don't forget without the troops from Ming Dynasty, it will be very
>>hard for Korea to fight of the Japanese invasion in late 1500s, they
>>had captured most of the major cities already before Ming Dynasty
>>entered the war.  

>You must be talking about 1592 invasion of Japanese (wow, now I got the
>year from memory :-)). Well...there might be some distortions but Koreans
>usually send the honor to Admiral Yi,Soon-shin who cut the sea road between
>troops in Korea and Japan. Since Japanese troops couldn't get sufficient
>support from Japan, they had to give up the war.
>

Even Ming's troops were there, those were no longer truely helpful troops 
since at that time the military power of Japan in Korea was declining due to
Admiral Yi's victory. The first reason of Ming's dispatch was that Ming
Dynasty did not want fight with Japan in her territory. In another words,
Ming did want to keep Japanese troops in Korean territory.

>BTW.....I don't have much bad feelings toward China, so this posting was
>only for info, regardless of main arguments.
>
 Me too :-)

Kang.