HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 12 Sep 1992 02:51:15 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

dsm@prism.gatech.EDU (Danny McGurl) writes:

>In article <BuFs3J.6M8@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:

>>tied for first:
>>   Afrika Korps >   Atlantis >   Barbary Coast >   Dorsai >   EVIL_EMPIRE >   Fodderland >   Graahoeje >   Guzzer >   Himmel >   Lersing >   Mirkwood >   Redline >   Resvon >   Revelstone >   Vulgaria

>This list leaves out Pern, JustUs and Dreamlands...

>>perpetual fodders: >   Soxland >   Orleanais >   Baldric >   Stuart_Hall

>This leaves outs the greatest Fodder of all:

>U.S. of Madison.

>I've dated myself now.. The washington 1989 game... What a game that was...
>Atlantis and the great gold scam.  The Gnur/Revelstone war.  The 
>kaerconan suicide pilots.  The Zenith/Kaerconan/Gnur alliance and the
>Ultima/Fodderland and someone else alliance against them... Later we
>watched the world turn to glass as AK and Dorsai nuked it out.

>Remember to guard your sheep!!!!!! :)

>When I was making top ten lists, I listed about 15 players.  
>My idea of a top player is someone that can win/finish games in a very
>good position pretty consistantly.
>-- 
>Danny McGurl                        "No, no Pixel!  Beer is not for baby cats."
>Office of Information Technology        --Richard Ames,
>dsm@prism.gatech.edu 		        __The Cat Who Walks Through Walls__

HEY!  I think I remember this game... either this one, or one really
close in time frame, where Ultima got blown down to 5 or so sectors,
but wound up supplying someone or another with zillions of nukes... ;)

But then again, I remember watching from the low-tech sidelines as
Microbia hid inside of Evil's bridges in that now-famous Harvard game
:)

gawd that was fun. :)

so, rather than wasting bandwidth, i'll pose a question:

how come nowadays, 90% of people that are being attacked and obviously
at a disadvantage, fold up without a fight?

I've never understood that one, because i've ALWAYS played to survive,
and it seems to me an awful waste of time to go down with a wimper.

Mike
-- 
Gee, I finally made a .sig file. Isn't it grand?
Chris Green is way cool. :)   My idols are camels.  OH! You wanted sarcasm,
well, just go read my .plan then. :)  - Mike Monthey heinlein@matt
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: markets shcmarkets...
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse)
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:28:57 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: as little as possible

I think any sort of magic market where you don't actually transport
the goods via planes or ships should never be used.  There will always
be plenty of abuse of this teleportation of goods.

Allies should always be able to trade commodities, planes, ships.
They just have to do the transporting of said good to the destination,
or picking them up.  ALLYHARBOR is a good start, but ships should
be able to be boarded from units in the harbor sector, whether friendly
or otherwise.  Meanwhile, there should be a ALLYAIRBASE rule, such that
planes can land in an ally's air base, the owner ship would change
to the owner of the air base then (mobility should not change).
The new owner can then fly them back, or use them himself.

$0.02
jim
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer)
Subject: Re: YAIDUA (Yet Another idea to downplay update attacks)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 05:57:35 GMT
Keywords: updates

In article <1992Sep3.134055.26189@mlb.semi.harris.com> cgehman@harris.mlb.semi.harris.com writes:
>After a successful attack, make that sector take x number of ETUs
>to be "mopped up" or "consolidated" before the mobility starts
>increasing.  I think this actually makes sense in a real world
>situation.

Nobody has commented on this yet. Too bad. It seems that this
idea completely takes care of the problem of having to be on
continuously in a game with very fast updates to prevent your
country from being overrrun. Someone should try it out: run a
4ETU/1 hour update game with a 48ETU consolidation period, or
something similar. If you really don't want to go through any
trouble to implement it just don't allow attacks from sectors
with less than 48 mobility. Or maybe better make a sector go
to -48 mobility instead of 0 if own#oldown after a sector is
taken.

Negativland
-- 
Mike Linksvayer   m-linksvayer@uiuc.edu   +1 217 344 1326
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer)
Subject: Re: Tech in Empire.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:05:01 GMT

It seems to me that the best way to limit the importance of
tech production is to use the Chainsaw ALL_BLEED option, and
set it high. 

Chainsaw 1's bleed is set at 50%. I think I will try a no-tech
strategy there. (Not that I have enough time to get really
involved in that game anyway :).

Negativland
-- 
Mike Linksvayer   m-linksvayer@uiuc.edu   +1 217 344 1326
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Subject: Re: CHAINSAW 2.0
Keywords: empire
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:30:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.160117.58788@cc.usu.edu> slvqd@mars.ee.usu.edu (Jeff Argast) writes:
>Where is the Chainsaw 2.0 code? 
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff

The Chainsaw 2.0 code is unreleased as of now. When the current chainsaw
game ends, I'll make it available. The Chainsaw 1.0 code will be available
on ftp.cis.ksu.edu, as soon as I can submit it to Karl.

Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: lmlc@brahms.udel.edu (Carolyn M Chandler)
Subject: help
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:06:16 GMT

can someone tell me the exact steps for ftp'inf the empire client 
at empire.bbn.com? thanks ( I need real step by step not justy
'ftp it')

-morgan
From: cking@zeus.muse.rockwell.com (Christopher King)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 18:25:43 GMT
Reply-To: cking@zeus.muse.rockwell.com (Christopher King)
Organization: Rockwell International

In article <67950@hydra.gatech.EDU>, me12@prism.gatech.EDU (Reza
Ebrahimpour 32199) writes:
|>I suggest we add a new rule to the game. We need to require every player 
|>to present a certificate of bachelorhood (copies of rental agreements,
|>bank accounts, credit cards, divorce papers, etc.) before signing up
|>for a game. This way we can guarantee two things:
|>1) The married players will continue will continue their happy lives
|>, but not the game
|>2) and the players who have not married yet, will never do.
|>

   Or alternatively, get the wives/significant others hooked on Empire as well.
While it might hamper the relationship in the long term ("You just did WHAT to
my country?!?"), it would more or less guarantee the ability to play the game.

---
 Chris King                    | Internet: cking@zeus.muse.rockwell.com
 Rockwell International        | FidoNet : 1:103/315; CI$: 74017,1665
 2800 Westminster Blvd.        | Fax     : 310-797-1469
 Seal Beach, CA USA 90740-2089 | Voice   : 310-797-4969
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: lmlc@brahms.udel.edu (Carolyn M Chandler)
Subject: i have eif1.0.1.tar what now?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 00:33:27 GMT


Ok i have eif1.0.1.tar i already uncompressed it now what do i do to 
turn it into eif*?
-morgan
please email
From: fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Rating systems.  AAAGGGHHHH!!!
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:11:55 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <192tmhINNagm@agate.berkeley.edu>, mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:
> In article <1992Sep14.161727.12934@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) writes:
>>Ratings suck.
>>
>>1)  Ratings are only valid if all factors are identical:  same world, same
>>islands, same everything _every_ time and this ain't gonna happen.  Otherwise,
>>you are comparing "apples and oranges."
> 
> This is completely untrue. A good rating system can easily be used when there
> are many variants of a game, to see who is flexible enough to win under
> different conditions. To take your example of a uniform sport, tennis: consider
>>Ken
>>LSF
> Dan Mytelka, mytelka@mendel.berkeley.edu (Langerhans)

If you can nationally rank Squad Leader, you could nationally rank Empire.  You
get more points for beating someone above you in ability level, less for
eating up fodder. i.e. i beat up, say, Langerhans in a war.  i get bunches and
bunches of points, because i've beaten a superior opponent.  On the other hand,
i kill off the guy who's asking what distribution is, i get next to nothing.
Conversely, the same newbie runs over me.  He gets points, i *lose* points,
because i just demonstrated my fodderness to the world.
Also, one would have to consider starting points.  If i've surrounded a
Langerhans sanctuary and he breaks a week late, it's not much of a contest...
 
The biggest problems in ranking would be:
 
1) setting up rules for points, agreed on by everyone that wanted to be ranked.
2) the extra work required of dieties, who would have to keep track of actions 
   in a ranked game (or post regular diety maps and news and logs to someone
   who did)
3) archiving everyone's current ranking, and updating the archives.  You would
   need someone completely `neutral'- (a non player?).


probably never happen.

James Zuelow
FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: Thomas.Retkowski <Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Forgotten Player
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 16:34:00 GMT

It seems the Council has lost his place among the "greats" of the game.  For
a time I was dominating as well as Afrika Korps or Vulgaria, but being
seperated from a direct connection to the Internet has let my memory get
swept away in the wind.  A few remember, but not enough.

All I can say is, once my system goes with the direct connection, the
Council with leader Tarpan will return.

   
-- 
****************************************************************************
** Thomas E. Retkowski              Addr: Thomas.Retkowski@Mixcom.com     **
** DePaul University                      Chicago, Il 60614               **
**                                                                        **
** "Fighting for a world without Liberal causes."                         **
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: Pauli.Ramo@hut.fi (no, I don't repeat it!)
Subject: Re: Update changes? Eeeww!
Reply-To: Pauli.Ramo@hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:20:28

In article <reynolds.715653797@judy.cs.iastate.edu> reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds) writes:

       Frogpire's idea of only allowing attacks from 5pm to 11pm,
   or somesuch, doesn't change update attacks, but at least keeps
   you from being worked over at night, and doesn't make things too
   much worse.

This does not take into account that in many games there are players from
all over the world (Europe, Australia, even some from the U.S. ;). Seems
to be a dead idea, except for local games.

	Pauli
--
Disclaimer fault - lawyers dumped
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:07:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <67950@hydra.gatech.EDU> me12@prism.gatech.EDU (Reza Ebrahimpour 32199) writes:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>On a more serious subject, all these claims of being the best seems 
>quite foolish. There are some excellent players in the game, and given
>the multi-player nature of the game, it is impossible to rank them 
>with a good precision.

	I dunno about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure that a person with
unlimited time to spend, even if a beginner, is better than an overexetended
'name player'. Skill is all well and good, but TIME is the determining factor.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Wow .. What Drugs?)
Subject: Markets
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: P.A.R.A.N.O.I.A
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:37:00 GMT

        Ok, I've been reading the discussions on the 'market systems'
        I don't like the idea of a delay in buying a commodity.

        But here's a better solution to this, instead of a delay in
        buying a commodity, make the delay in selling the commodity,
        this way, when an enemy attacks you bank he can't sell off
        all the gold bars that are in it without incuring this delay and
        allowing you to attack back.  Now if the enemy still happens
        to own the sector after the 12 hr delay, then he/she's free
        to sell all the gold/bars in it.  At which time once the commodities
        are on the market, they could THEN be bought without incuring any
        delay at all, because of the delay in selling.

Stuart_Hall
aka Corwin
#include BITNET <FSJJP@ALASKA.BITNET>
#include EMAIL <FSJJP@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU>
From: pgradit@ens-lyon.fr (Pierre Gradit)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Land Unit and Agriculture Surface.
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:32:08 GMT
Reply-To: pgradit@ens-lyon.fr
Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon


	I think Land Unit is a great idea. Most of people say "with planes and boat it will be too complicated". We could make a game without planes and with Land Units, like this you will have a more Middle-age game, but it will be more realistic, and all weapons will have a comparable speed (Boats and Land Units).
	Empire country looks like Mega-town all over the country. Because Agriculture surface is too less with agribusiness at 999. So, you could have 2 stuff :
	* wilderness (-) produces food (30 time less than an agribusiness).
	* Agribusiness efficiency is linked more to tech. (divide normal rate by 60 * 1/(tech+30).
	Like this Agribusiness geting interesting at 30. And you need 30 times more agriculture surface, this is more realistic, it is interesting ?

	E-mail : pgradit@dmi.ens-lyon.fr
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: donm@cs.UAlberta.CA (Don Murray)
Subject: Re: Update Stuff & Land Units
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:11:22 GMT

ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:

>In article <Bu7ttw.7oJ@acsu.buffalo.edu> fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep4.000950.3168@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
>>
>>Anyone thought of the idea of morale (based on happiness?) and having units
>>fight until they "break", then they retreat a sector at random (rout), and, if
>>no friendly sector is available, they are captured, ala Empires in Arms.
>>
>	This is a good idea! It's make happiness more important, certainly.
>I'd still want the retreat level settable, but you could make it from 1% to 
>some level determined by happiness. (For consistency, you could make it 1 to
>10+((50+happiness)/(200+happiness)*10) % It'd look like this:

>		Happiness	Max retreat %
>		0		35%
>		10		39%
>		20		42%
>		40		48%
>		60		52%
>		100		60%

>	It'd  mean that happy nations could hold ground and/or attack better
>than unhappy nations (and unhappy troops)

Just another idea to incorporate with this one.  I think this idea is great.
But another idea I had along similar lines had to do with experienced troops.
It seems to me that if a nation does a lot of fighting, they would have a
larger corps of vetrans.  If you could incorporate something about # of mil
that saw action vs. # of mil in the country to improve their fighting effectiveness
or make them hold longer, it might be interesting.  It might also be a 
burden/make things too complex.  

But it's an idea I wanted to point out.

It might be easier to do just with individual units, if this land units
thing really takes off.

Don
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:41:25 GMT

In article <DELOURA.92Sep14114300@wimpie.noaapmel.gov>, deloura@noaapmel.gov (Robert DeLoura) writes:
|> madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters) writes:
|> >In article <18s7hjINN44l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one) writes:
|> >|> HEY!  I think I remember this game... either this one, or one really
|> >|> close in time frame, where Ultima got blown down to 5 or so sectors,
|> >|> but wound up supplying someone or another with zillions of nukes... ;)
|> >	 Got it backwards Mike. Ultima blew Zenith down to 5 or so sectors,
|> > but then left for Christmas, and Zenith came back to supply the world with
|> > nukes...
|> 
|> Heh heh heh.  :-)   Of course, if Ultima hadn't left for Christmas, this
|> wouldn't have been nearly as successful.  Was kind of amusing having to
|> build back small "Zenith colonies" in the middle of several allied nations.
|> 
|> Remembering it almost makes me want to play Empire again.
|> 
|> Almost.
|> 
|> Still takes too much of a time commitment to play, though.
|> But if that ever changes, I'll be back!  And will promptly get myself kicked
|> all over the map due to not having played in a few years  :-)
|> 
|> --"Zenith"
|> deloura@noaapmel.gov


	Heh, coming back in that game with 90% wasteland is what got
you in the Hall of Fame.  I saw the map of your country after Ultima blew it.  He
*wasted* you....  It was a damn impressive nuking, for those of you who 
remember what nukes look like.   You had to move out of your country and
still came back to lead in tech into the washington nuke-off.

I apologize to those of you who get pissed off at me for repeatedly
mentioning this game and a few others...   It's just that it was a whole
lot of fun to play Suboceana, and still be relatively obscure...


I still have the anno's from the '89 nukeoff, I'll post them again if
people want me too.



			The Saint


			Suboceana
From: camelsho@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Top Players
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:43:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: kitty.ksu.ksu.edu

>In article <1992Sep10.173913.14805@mixcom.com>, Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com (Thomas.Retkowski) writes:
>> There are always good players...luck of the draw as far as territory always
>> helps, but here are some names for thought.

>> Narnia

Narnia as opposed to narnia?  If you mean narnia, your post was
a joke right???  (Hi mike)_
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: hassink@cs.UAlberta.CA (Hassink Brian John)
Subject: Explore Tool Wanted
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:52:44 GMT

Anybody out there have a good explore tool, or know an ftp
site where there is one? I'm looking for something simple
that explores in a super-nove fashion (ie: no spokes).

Thanks in advance.
hassink@cs.ualberta.ca
From: hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: NIKHEFK
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:53:05 GMT

tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
)hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell) writes:

)This post was so full of bull that I didn't even know wher to begin.  I'll
)just make a few short comments...

Actually I thought my post was great!  :-}   But in case you don't like
people defending what they stand for, there is a better way for you to
do something about our idees: just kill one of the players I mentioned in
a regular or 1-1 empire game. HEHEHEH!

Okay, some replies to your 'short comments'   (IF YOU HATE THIS TALK SKIP
NOW, OR DON'T FOLLOW THE WHOLE STUPID DISCUSSION ANYWAY)

)|> Graahoeje...

)I seriously doubt he kills nations faster than any other.  He's another
)person with too much time on his hands -- calculating che numbers!!!  How
)could he kill nations 'faster than any other' if he's spending time
)calculating stupid che numbers?!?!?!

The point is: I met him in real live. He hasn't much time to spend on the
game, as you may also conclude from his articles posted lately here. But
the guy works very efficient when he is logged on. Making revolt chances
0% by killing che quickly is a way to save time and mil later on. I don't
see much (even good) people do it... Look at the results: Graahoeje ends
up at the nr.1 spot often, with lots of sectors.

)|> Finland...
)Just about everyone knows how to make tech and all of the good players
)know how to make it quite well.  There's a limit to how much should be
)produced, though, and that's where these countries sometimes screw up.

The better your diplomacy and fighting skills, the more money you save
for tech production. A country that can make much tech without being
overrun must be ruled by a good player for that reason. That's the point.
Or ask Rob Watkins (a US player!). Looking at his play he knows this very
well.
From: jody@athena.mit.edu (Jody C Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: getting empire
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:35:26 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I just moved to a new school, and would like some info on how 
to get the empire stuff agian.  A friend of mine originally
helped me, and I can not get his attention now.  8-(

Where do i ftp, what do i get (and how) and what do i do with
it once i am done?

Thanks in advance.

Jody
From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: markets
Keywords: euro, market
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:24:47 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada


   The whole market scheme is very unrealistic, not to mention unfair when
   used in the bank-sacking attacks mentioned before.  For people who want
   trade, let them use cargo ships or planes or border sector swapping or
   something.  Without the market, ships become more important if you want to
   trade with anyone (assuming a non-perfect world), and allied airfields 
   would make trade faster.

   Just my thoughts.
   Scott
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: pkenny@ADS.COM (Patrick Kenny)
Subject: Hosting a Game, But Wait!
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mtn. View, CA (415) 960-7300
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:43:28 GMT


I am thinking of hosting an Empire game soon. Not having done this before,
except for myself, I would like to solicite some advice from people and 
Gods that have hosted an Empire game.

Stuff that you think you be helpful, remember when you first ran one and you
had questions?

If I get enough responses I might compile a manual for the net.

So send in that helpful advice.

Thanks
-pk


P.S.
This will be a real 'Old 'Time Empire game. The ones that keep you up all 
night, lower your grades and keep you from getting sleep. 
There is room for experienced and not so experienced players.

--
! -Patrick Kenny (pkenny@ads.com)    (Advanced Decision Systems)      !
! There is nothing more incredible then reading with your eyes closed !