From: hoyme@src.honeywell.com (Ken Hoyme)
Subject: Re: Boeing 747-300
	<airliners.1992.5@ohare.Chicago.COM>
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Mpls. MN, USA.
X-Original-Message-Id: <HOYME.92Nov19093539@schrodinger.src.honeywell.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:35:39 GMT

(I posted this yesterday, but our mailer had problems with finding where
to send for this moderated newsgroup.  I have been told this has been
fixed.  I see that other follow-ups have occured as well, but there is
some information in here that wasn't covered.  Rather than editing this,
I am sending it on as originally written.)

In article <airliners.1992.5@ohare.Chicago.COM> kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) writes:

> In article <airliners.1992.4@ohare.Chicago.COM> jerry@telecom.ksu.edu (Jerry Anderson) writes:

> Unless the Russians have something which I've missed, the 747-400 is
> easily the largest commercial passenger aircraft in terms of number of
> seats and payload.  Its range is also the greatest of anything now in
> service, though the Airbus A340 will exceed it once it enters service
> next year.

According to the "Commercial Airliners of the World" section of the
21-27 October 1992 issue of Flight International, the largest Russian
transport is the Ilyushin II-86 Camber with a maximum seating of 350. I
noticed that the max. seating estimates for the other airplanes were for
sardine configurations, so I have to assume that this is not a 3-class
estimate.  (Ex: 747-400 with max seating of 660??  That's cramped!)

>>    McDonnell-Douglas   MD-11    1993
>>    Airbus              AE-400   1994
>>    Boeing              777      1995-6

> All three of these are much smaller than what you're thinking of.
> Here are the important parameters for these three plus the 747-400
> for comparison.  Seating is for a "typical" three-class cabin and
> service is the date of first service; MGTOW is in US pounds.

>     Mfr.      Type      MGTOW    seating  service
>     Boeing    747-400   870,000    430     1989
>     MacDAC    MD-11     618,000    250     1991
>     Airbus    A-340     559,000    230     1993
>     Boeing    777       515,000   ~220     1995

My data for the 777-200 is 3-class seating of 320, with a stretch
version planned with 3-class seating in the 360-390 range.  United
ordered the 320 seat version according to AvWeek Oct. 22, 1990.

According to AvWeek Nov. 4, 1991, the A-340-300 will have a 3-class
seating configuration of 295, and the A340-200 will be shorter with 262
seats.

> In the 600+ passenger market, Boeing has talked about both further
> stretches of the 747 and an entirely new aircraft, sometimes using
> the N650 moniker.  McDonnell-Douglas has most recently talked about
> the MD-12 -- once yet another stretch of the MD-11 -- as a new and
> much larger aircraft, also in the 600+ passenger category.  Airbus
> has said that if there is demand and/or if Boeing builds such an
> aircraft, Airbus will build one too.  The name A600 or maybe A2000
> seems vaguely familiar though I can't locate any references.

Boeing is considering three configurations for their "New Large Airplane
(NLA)" A 747 stretch, a double deck 747 and a totally new double decker.
3 class seats range from 484-612.  See AvWeek Jan 6, 1992 for a
description of these options.  

An Oct. 28, 1991 AvWeek article covers Airbus's studies on large
airplane configurations.  That article confusingly talks about the
ASX-700, but shows an artists concept with an A2000 on the tail.  600
3-class seats in a double deck configuration.  

I have also heard that Boeing will build theirs if Airbus launches.  I
suspect both are eying the market and hoping to delay the investment as
long as possible, given the current economic climate.  If one decides
the go-ahead, the other will have to launch defensively to prevent the
other from capturing the market.  I hope this won't be another fiasco
like the DC-10/L-1011 developments, where each captured enough of the
market to keep the other from making any money.  Lockheed got out of the
business, and some have questioned whether MDAC has ever really
recovered from that.

Ken

---
Ken Hoyme                    Honeywell Systems and Research Center
(612)951-7354                3660 Technology Dr., Minneapolis, MN 55418
Internet: hoyme@src.honeywell.com

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners