From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: What to do about homophobes?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 03:05:24 GMT


In article <1993Jan5.210406.9347@cs.brown.edu>
atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell) writes:

>In article <1993Jan2.134545.15286@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>You know, I admit to feeling less hostile toward people who
>>may have a decent heart but merely haven't thought about it
>>at all or enough.  Probably a lot of us know people with
>>whom we've been friendly who turned out all right with a
>>little shove in the right direction.  After all, I've told
>>myself, we're *all* born ignorant.

>>But really, that should not be neceesary.  A homophobe is
>>a homophobe, whether from malevolence or from ignorance;
>>the end result for us is the same, either way.  

>This last paragraph bothers me.  I won't bother to debate on
>the damage homophobia and heterocentrism/heterosexism do us
>(all), but the tone of your words makes me frown.

Then it (the paragraph) has obtained its objective.  These
discussions are intended to provoke, to disrupt the placid
calm we spend so much time trying to achieve in a hostile
world, to make us uncomfortable with our received knowledge
and our pat answers.

>I, for one, -am- willing to give the (apparently) ignorant
>at least a -chance-.

As I said ("with a little shove in the right direction"),
I've nothing against giving people a chance.  My point was
that it should not be necessary to do even that.

You go on to give the example of your stepmother, and some
possible degree of educating her.  I have nothing against
doing that, on a case-by-case basis.  Bear with me, I'll
come down heavy on the main point in a minute.

>*I* think that improvement -- even if it *is* minor -- is
>QUITE worth taking the effort to try and educate her.  As a
>subculture we do not have the means to effect a coup and
>enforce our morals, ideologies, etc on the populace in
>general.  

What is wrong (*something* fundamental surely *is* wrong)
with society that we would have *any need at all* for the
means you mention?  Is not the problem precisely that the
majority society is so lacking in ethical values (family or
otherwise) that there can exist such a pervasive and
irresistible oppression?  It isn't just sexual or other
minorities who struggle under the boot of this oppression.
It's the entire universe.  There is something basically,
fundamentally, and enduringly wrong with this society.  It's
as though humans (alone of all things) had some *really* bad
genes.

>The most lasting changes are effected through
>education.  If we do not take the time to at least TRY and
>educate people who are ignorant of the truths of bisexuality
>and homosexuality, then I think we're a pretty wretched
>people.

Perhaps we are.  Perhaps the best we can hope for is local
and temporary remediation of the prevailing conditions, and
that only for the few (like thee or me and a few of our
friends) who can manage somehow to get through a whole life
more or less sane, more or less intact.

While I wouldn't eschew -- categorically -- the sort of
patience and earnest effort to enlighten that you advocate
here, I also would resist any tendency to obscure the root
problems.  In realistic terms, the "we should educate"
argument ends up being so much pissing into a gale.  We even
have periodic incursions of idiots who get all huffy when we
balk at the prospect of yet another educational opportunity
presented in the form of their own clueless personages.

>>Your friend is a fine example.  Anyone who says "give me a
>>break" should be slapped hard right across the face, without
>>hesitation.  Anyone who says "that's reaching for straws"
>>deserves a very rude shock.

>As long as you take the time to -try- and set your friend
>right, not just slap them in the face...

I meant a slap more metaphorical than physical, but just
delivering the shock *should* be enough, like jump-starting
a mind.

>>Your friend, Walter, Cramer, and everyone like them are just
>>plain bigots, and I think making finer distinctions than
>>that is not very sensible.  There may be shades of bigotry,
>>people who are more easily awakened than others, but your
>>friend is as much a murderer of suicided teens, a tormenter
>>of closeted priests, a harasser of lesbian teachers, a
>>taunter of bisexual classmates, etc., as the most virulent
>>neo-nazi or religious bigot is.  The differences, if present,
>>don't mean a damn thing at the bottom line: these people
>>are *all* oppressors.

>So what are we to do?

Oh well.  Lots of things.  Some of "them" should probably
just be killed.  Others could be "educated." Others, you can
wait generations for their evil seed (genes) to run itself
up the blind alley of specialization and wither out.  In a
practical way, you can do the sensible thing: stumble along,
doing the best you can.  Try to wake a few folks up, on your
side and on theirs.  We only live three score and ten anyway,
some of us quite a lot less (these days), and we're allowed
to try to enjoy *that* as well.  Since killing, though
sometimes attractively efficient, really makes our dilemma
worse, not better, I don't actually advocate that.  But the
shock value of the idea is useful, and since killing in one
way or another is such a pandemic (getting worse, I think),
the oppressors ought not to feel too secure in that regard.

What we are to do, I think, is to do the best we can.  It
wouldn't take all that much to make that better than we have
done.  I say, do that much and then let's see.

<> Q: What are two things we commonly teach our children that
<> are wrong?  A: That a knowledge of science is nice but not
<> necessary and that a knowledge of sex is necessary but not
<> nice.
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss