From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #966
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:53:27 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #966		             Thu 10 September 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Conducting the boil and beer color (Marc de Jonge)
  Dry ice (Kurt Swanson)
  sterile enough (Fritz Keinert)
  Stout recipe (Paul Matulonis)
  Learning to Taste Beer (John DeCarlo)
  Christmas Brew (John DeCarlo)
  Fruity stuff (Mark Rich)
  A few cents worth of stuff (HOGLE RICHARD A             )
  Re:DMS from Briess (jim busch)
  Oxidation (Alan_D._Thomson.LAX1B)
  Malt (George Fix) (George J Fix)
  Re: Conducting the boil and beer color (Jeff Benjamin)
  various and sundry (Richard Childers)
  Re: Sterile Enough (Houck)
  gelatin (Houck)
  Hop Yields (Tom Rush) (Thomas P. Rush)
  Request for recipe. ("C. Lyons")
  Kieran Call Home (Jeff Frane)
  Cajun Cooker=Toasted Porch ("John Cotterill")
  Sterile, Doughin, Pullies etc. (Jack Schmidling)
  RE: Big Bad Wolf and Beginner HOP question (BELLAGIO_DAVID)
  Mail Order Homebrewing supplies (Mark Wells Wilson)
  sterile, anaerobic, and carbonic (Pierre Jelenc)
  Chimay Yeast & Banana, another data point... (Todd Enders - WD0BCI)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 11:20:22 MET
From: dejonge@geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: Conducting the boil and beer color


In HBD 965 Richard Goldstein asks:
>1) What is the proper way to conduct a boil (for an all-grain brew)?
>..
>The reason I am wondering is that I seem to be boiling off more than
>most of the books/recipes assume. If I sparge to 6.5 gals, I can easily
>boil away 1.5 gals rather than 1.0 gals that are usually assumed.

and:

>2) How do I make a light colored beer?

and he suggests these problems may be related.

Well, I'm not sure about the relation (apart from caramelization) but
I use a somewhat different method for mashing, if I'm brewing light
(coloured) beers, which seems to solve both problems:

In my experience using more (up to an extra gallon) water for the mash
produces a lighter wort (after boiling to the desired gravity) and
it gives you a larger wort volume before boiling.
I prefer using more mash water to more sparge water to avoid
extracting nasty flavours from the husks.

I hope this is of some help.

Marc de Jonge                   dejonge@geof.ruu.nl


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 12:46:26 MET DST
From: Kurt Swanson <Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se>
Subject: Dry ice

Chuck Coronella writes:
>As you may recall, I recently asked the readership for advice regarding the
>use of ascorbic acid for the purpose of preventing (or repairing) damage to
>a finished beer due to oxidation at bottling time.

I'm not certain, but I seem to remember that ascorbic acid only really
works with wine... I can't remember the refernce to this, as all my
brew books are in a different continent.

>This, then, is my solution.  I will throw a chunk of dry ice into my bucket
>before racking, allow it to fully sublime, rack and bottle my mead, and
>then cap with SmartCaps to absorb any O2 thay may have made its way into
>the bottles in the mean time.

>But, now that I think about it, I wonder if the dry ice might be full of
>contaminants and nasties.  Any thoughts on that?

Sounds like a good idea, and I doubt you have to worry about any
contaminants in dry ice, as the extremes in temperature and pressure
in making the dry ice probably would kill anything...
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 07:21:18 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert@iastate.edu>
Subject: sterile enough

In HBD 965, Spencer W. Thomas <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu> writes

> I've recently been discussion yeast culture with my wife, who cultures
> E. Coli almost daily (she's a molecular biologist).  She feels that
> many of us are being overly paranoid about infection -- she rarely
> flames her tubes, etc, nor does she feel that a "sterile box" is
> necessary.  A fellow in her lab has a term: "sterile enough".

Before everybody flames away about what I have to say here, let me
stress that my methods work for me personally, and may not work for
other people. Also, I don't know anything about yeast culturing; I am
talking about simple brewing here.

I have been following the discussion about clever ways to start a
siphon without touching, and ways to sterilize bottles (soak in
bleach, followed by a dishwasher cycle with baking at the end, etc.).
In my opinion, a lot of people are worrying way too much.

I rinse my bottles with hot water after use and before bottling, using
a bottle washer. I suck on the hose to start siphoning. Everything
works just fine for me. I have not had any infections since my first
few batches.
- ---
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5223
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert@iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 09:15:14 -0400
From: Paul Matulonis <paulm@sci.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Stout recipe


Chris Estes (cestes@argos5.dnet.nasa.gov) asked for a stout
recipe that is extract based.  The following is a batch I
'krudged' up (as I found I lacked the proper ingredients to
dupe the stout I was aiming for); it turns out to be MUCH
better than the stuff I was looking to duplicate.

Grains were crushed and steeped in a bag in a pot with about
a gallon of H2O for about a half hour.  The total volume of the
boil was about 3 gallons.  "Big pints" refers to Fischer beer
bottles which are about 22 oz.

I still have about three bottles left of this stuff and it still
tastes great (had one just the other day!).  No nasty caramel taste
or other nasties.


21 March 92
	Krudge

	1 can M&F stout
	1 lb each amber & dark dme
	200 g each black patent, chocolate malt, roast barley
	600 g crystal malt
	16 g gypsum
	2 oz chinook (boil)
	1 oz centennial (boil)
	1 oz cascade (finish)

	Crush grains; steep at around 60-70 C; sparge with lotsa
	cold H2O.  Add extracts, gypsum, boiling hops. Add finish
	5 min before end; total time in copper around 45 m.  Chill
	brewpot on ice; bring to about 3.5 - 4 gal.

	Racked at 5 days; minimal activity at this point
	Bottled at 11 days; no activity at all at this point
		primed with 100g sugar/400ml H2O
		got 20 pints and 5 big pints
	SG= ???
	FG= ???

	Taste: (initial) nice, bitter, sweet
		(after 2 months) similar to Canal Sludge Stout



Good luck!

pm

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 09:23:33 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Learning to Taste Beer

>From: jlf@palm.cray.com (John Freeman)

>After seeing the brand name Corsendonk mentioned here in the
>digest, and seeing it in a store, I bought a bottle.  I'm glad
>that's all I bought.  Perhaps I got a bad bottle, but it tasted
>infected.  Mind you, I've never had a Belgian beer before, so I
>don't know if they are supposed to taste this way.  But, when my
>beer has tasted like this, I poured it out.

This subject comes up from time to time.  After all, for
beginning brewers, the simplest advice is "if you like to drink
it, it's OK".

<soapbox mode on>

However, there comes a time when you really want to try other
styles or analyze what can be improved with your regular brew or
what went wrong with a bad batch.  IMHO, bringing such beer to a
homebrew club meeting is about the best method there is.
Essentially, you want other people to give you
feedback--hopefully experienced beer tasters.  This could be the
folks at the homebrew supply store, the homebrew club meeting, or
even a homebrew competition, for example.

Only when you learn to taste beer analytically can you hope to be
able to answer such questions as "Is this commercial beer
infected or oxidized or otherwise damaged, or should it taste
like this?" or "Is my beer infected, or just not brewed as well
as it could be?".

Now we have seen in the past here that not everyone *wants* to be
able to analyze his/her beer, which is fine.  But for those who
want to keep learning and improving, it is essential.

<soapbox mode off?


Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 09:24:12 EDT
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Christmas Brew

>From: rein@gandalf.Berkeley.EDU (steve rein)

>Do any of you have a recipe that only uses malt extract (malt
>syrup of various types are available cheap near here) for a
>Christmas Ale?  How about a version that uses mostly extract?

Papazian's book, TNCJOHB, has a recipe called something like
"Holiday Cheer", which is all extract.  It adds honey and spices
to a pale extract.  I have had good luck with variations on that
recipe--use spices you like and add an equal amount of spices to
the brewpot and the secondary fermenter (I call the latter "dry
spicing").

Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 09 Sep 92 08:41:58 EDT
From: Mark Rich <MPR8A@acadvm1.uottawa.ca>
Subject:      Fruity stuff

Well, here it is; my first (beginner alert!!! bweep!bweep!bweep!) posting.

    So please, oh seasoned brewing veteran gods, curse me not! Ok; enough with
the disclaimer/warning; on to the question... My wife-to-be is NOT a big fan of
 beer; but she does like those DURANGO fruit/malt/cooler-type beverages. In par
ticular, she loves the orange and citrus flavour stuff. I don't mind the suff e
ither,(forgive me, oh brew gods) so I was wondering if anybody out there in hbd
land had experimented with recipies for this sorta ting. I am not very experien
ced...(a couple of kit beers) so please be detailed in your modus operandi. I h
ave read Papazian's new book; and checked out the Cat's-Meow, with no luck. Any
bits of wisdom would be greatly apreciated. I can be e-mailed directly at MPR8
A@ACADVM1.UOTTAWA.CA

     I have been subscribed for about two months now, and I'd like to put in my
$0.02 worth... There is a lot of great info to be had, but all this nastiness s
eems rather uncalled for. From personal experience, I can tell you that it does
make us rookies a tad nervous about asking questions; lest we be smitten by a b
olt of lightning. My advice to people with nasty comments: LIGHTEN-UP !!!! or m
aybe form a new interest-group; like SnideRemarks@malcontent.get.a.life. and ke
ep that ##it off an otherwise friendly and enjoyable forum. Hypothetical questi
on: You're at the garage, waiting to talk to the mechanic about the noise your
car is making and what the problem might be. The guy just before you describes
the same noise to the mechanic as you listen in; The mechanic rolls his eyes, a
nd tells the guy he is LAME for not knowing what the problem is. Do you....
   a) agree that the guy should not ask such stupid questions?
   b) leave quietly and take your business elswhere?
   c) ask the mechanic the same question and brace yourself?

     We can't all be mechanical or brewing wiz'... Think about it

Mark Rich, Technical-Communications-Stuff-Specialist-Guy, Computing and Communi
           cations Service, Ottawa University. (mpr8a@acadvm1.uottawa.ca)

------------------------------

Date:  9 Sep 92 09:20 EST
From: HOGLE RICHARD A              <HOGLE@CRDGW2.crd.ge.com>
Subject: A few cents worth of stuff


Hi all,
    I've been a regular read for some time now (#320something was the first
    issue I received), and have been brewing for about 5 years with
    70 batches complete. Just thought I'd add my two cents:

On Labels:
    I use a Mac to make labels which I stick onto the bottle caps
    with a glue stick.  Dimensions are 1." x .5", then
    reduced by 25-30% before printing (use a copier machine to reduce if
    your software can't). This takes about 5 minutes to
    make and print 40 or so labels.  Takes another 5 minutes to cut the
    labels out. I can fit the batch #, name, date, and major
    ingredients onto each label. I don't really care if the labels are
    bigger than the cap- it's great to be able to see what went into
    the beer your about to drink.

Starting a Siphon:
    I fill the siphon tube part way up with water, then drain into a
    cup, stopping it just after some beer flows out the end of the tube.

On Brewing:
    I still brew with extracts (over 5 years now) and am pretty happy with
    the results. In fact, the brews keep getting better and better, partly
    from some tips I've gotten from HBD and partly from moving up the
    learning curve.

        - The two biggest improvements in my beer came when I went to
          liquid yeast and started using an immersion-style chiller.

          Using the chiller:
            The wort cools from boiling down to about 90F in about 15 minutes.
            Then I siphon the cooled wort into my carboy that has about 1.5 gal
            of cold tap water. (leaving behind whatever break material and hop
            particles might be in the pot)

          Then
            I top off the carboy with tap water, and pitch the yeast.
            I don't use a starter (I'm too lazy) and generally see
            visible fermentation within 8-24 hours.

    Brewing takes me about 2.5 hours, from the time I pull the pot out, until
    I put it away clean.

    I brew 12 to 15 batches per year.  Wyeast costs me about $4. per pack.
    That's about $2.50 more than dry yeast per batch, or about $38 spread out
    over a year. To me, it's worth it, but not so expensive as to force me
    to try culturing.

    When the kids are older and when I have more free time, I'll try some
    all-grains, 'til then, I'll stick with extracts.


On Fermentation:
    I use single-stage fermentation in a glass carboy (5-gal) with
    3/8" blow-off (never had a clogging problem, as I used
    to strain the hot wort as I poured it into the carboy- probably
    oxidizing the wort. Now I siphon as above)

    I rarely rack to a secondary, mostly because it seems like extra work.
    The times that I did, I did not notice any improvement in the final
    product (though that was prior to liquid yeast days, so maybe I try again
    to see if there's a difference).

    Fermentation is usually complete in 2-3 weeks.  Sometimes I don't get
    around to bottling for a month or 2.  I have notice that if the beer
    sits in the primary for more than 6 or so weeks, off flavors start to
    appear, so recently I've been trying to bottle before then.
    I haven't taken an SG reading since about batch 15.

Bottling:
    I fill my priming tank (a plastic tub with a spigot at the bottom, from
    Williams) with cold tap water and 1/2 cup clorox. Then I attatch a plastic
    hose to the spigot and rinse out my bottles with this sanitizing solution.
    This way I sanitize the tank, the hose, and the bottles in one operation.
    I also put anything else that will touch the beer into the tank while I'm
    rinsing the bottles.

    When I'm done, I rinse everything with tap water, but after reading some
    of the comments in HBD, I may hold off on rinsing for one batch to see
    how it turns out.

    I use two glass tubes during bottling, one about 20" which goes into the
    carboy, the other about 12", which I use for bottling.  Glass is nice
    since it's easy to clean and sanitize.


    To bottle, make a sugar syrup of 3/4 cup corn sugar, about 1.5 cups
    tap water in a sanitized Pyrex measuring cup. I heat this to a boil in the
    microwave (~4min).  The syrup goes into the priming tank.

    Using the plastic tube with the two glass canes, I siphon
    the beer on top of the syrup.  I move the priming tank up to the table,
    transfer the hose-end at the carboy to the spigot, I open the tap and
    start bottling.  The smaller glass tube goes all the way to the bottom
    of the bottle. I just crimp the end of the plastic tube when the bottle
    is full, grab another bottle, and fill.

    I use the old two-handle bottle capper and have never had a problem
    with this over the 5 years of brewing (70 5-gal batches).

    Bottling takes about 3 hours, from when I start collecting bottles, until
    I put the clean carboy in the basement.

oops...
    I have had my share of boil-overs, under/over carbonated bottles, etc..
    but not so often anymore.  Of all the batches I've brewed, only one
    was undrinkable and got pitched. With that batch, I had tried letting
    the break settle overnight, racking to another carboy, then pitching
    the yeast.  It was mid-June and there were just too many beasties around.
    I learned my lesson.

Finally,

    A long time ago, I brewed several batches of beer in succession,
    thereby giving me a stockpile of 5-8 cases which now remains more or less
    constant.  When I bottle a batch, the bulk of it ages for a month or two
    or three before it reaches the front of the stack. The beers come out
    crystal clear and nicely carbonated, and of course, I always have a variety
    of beers on hand (each with an ingredient label as above).

    With this scheme, sometimes a few bottles from a batch might be
    around for a year or more.  I've noticed that the beer improves for 6
    months or so, and then stablizes. I've not noticed any detrimental
    effects of having beer in the bottle for more than a year.  The beer
    is stored in the corner of my basement (in a small room I built- some
    2x4's, dry wall, and insulation) at 60-75F.

Relax, Don't worry, Have a Homebrew.

Rich Hogle
e-mail: hogle@crd.ge.com



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 9:59:09 EDT
From: jim busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re:DMS from Briess

There has been much talk in the digest recently about DMS problems that
are attributable to Briess malt.  Certainly the DMS precursors can come
from the malt.  I just have a problem with homebrewers claiming such
problems since so many micros, pub breweries and mega breweries use
the same malt without DMS problems.  Here's my experiance:

Most of my beers are made using 2 row lager malt from Froedtert Malt
Corp.  I make mostly ales, but a Maibock was made from this malt with
great success.  In May, my malt supplier installed an auger and i was
without a malt source and switched to precrushed Briess brewers grist.
I always do a 122F protein rest followed by a 152-154F Saccrafication,
and a 170-175 mash off.  I recirc the runoff 30 minutes (horrors!),
and sparge 60-90 minutes total.  I also stir my mash as the heat is
added to do the upward step mash.  Boil in the kettle is at least 90
minutes and a whirlpool technique collects the hop cone.  Counterflow
chilling (4 1/2inch refridge copper lines inside 4 3/4 inch garden hose).
Then ferment with 1 lb/BBL healthy,viable Narragansett yeast.

The results: Nobody could tell the malt change.  The resulting beers
won blue ribbons.  Even a decoction mashed Wheat beer did well.  Maybe
the body is a little thiner than with lager malt, maybe not.

The local brewery, Old Dominion Brewing CO, uses the same malt...never,
never have they had a DMS problem.  They make lagers and ales/hybrids.
Numerous other respected breweries employ this malt with great results.
Are all these DMS problems with lager beer only??  Has technique been
adequately ruled out?  Is the yeast truely healthy, and in adequate
supply and is enough Oxygen introduced??


I have to believe this is another MOMILY since i respect the brewers and
beer produced with this malt and while i expected the quality of my
beers to go down with this malt, it did not.

Just another data point...

Jim Busch
busch@daacdev.stx.com


------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:06:39 PDT
From: Alan_D._Thomson.LAX1B@xerox.com
Subject:  Oxidation

Just my tow cents.

I'm an extract brewer (for the last year and a half).  About a year back, I
started to boil my brewing water (I live in LA).  I noticed a big difference in
the quality of the brew.  I also figured that during the boil, 02 would be
lost.  With that in mind and knowing that it is also possible to cause
oxidation to occur in cold wort, I decided to aerate the boiled brewing water.
So, what I do now is shack the boiled water in my secondary, fill my primary
with cold wort, fill the primary with (aerated and boiled) water to five
gallons, and aerate the primary just a little.

If this sounds cracked, please let me know.
AT

PS.
I've noticed some inquires about Watney's Cream Stout, but no response.  If
someone has a recipe, pleas post.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:17:58 CDT
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Malt (George Fix)

I think Tim Norris deserves a metal for making the Belgium malt
available to homebrewers. I was told when I was in Germany a few
years ago that France and Belgium were the prime areas for growing
barley, and that malt made from these grains was the best available.
Now that I have actually brewed with them I am a firm believer. In fact,
I just recently ordered 200 lbs. from Tim which included the Pils, Pale Ale,
Cara-Vienna, and Cara-Munich. From this point on this is the only malt I
am going to use. Tim's prices are also very reasonable.

The Cara-Vienna has one serious defect that can be detected by chewing some.
Namely, it tastes so good that I have to use all my willpower to keep from
having it for breakfast! We have a Vienna currently in the secondary that
was made from the Pils malt as well as the Cara-Vienna and Cara-Munich in
the same amounts cited in our book. The Cara-Vienna was used to replace both
the Irek light crystal and the English caramel. Already it is promising to
be the best version we have done.

I am getting slightly higher yields with the Belgium malts than I got from
the Irek malts. For example, in the Vienna we were shooting for 12.5 P (1.050),
but wound up with 14 P (1.056). We also are getting more color extraction,
e.g., 11 deg L instead of our usual 8-9 deg L.

I want to second Micah Millspaw comments about the bad malt that is out there.
For example, a malt analysis showed protein levels at a staggering 13.5%. The
Belgium malts, on the other hand, range from 9-10 %. Also the SMM levels were
4 to 5 times that of normal malt. (SMM is the major DMS precussor in malt). I
agree with Micah that malt like this is not fit for brewing. There are some
deserving cows out there which can put it to much better use!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 9:46:17 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Conducting the boil and beer color

Richard.Goldstein@EBay.Sun.COM asks:

> 1) What is the proper way to conduct a boil (for an all-grain brew)?

You're correct in using a full rolling boil for the entire time.
Another purpose of the boil, besides coagulating proteins, is to
eliminate unwanted volatiles via the steam.  Maybe someone knows the
exact chemistry, but I've heard that various sulphur compounds and other
nasties are boiled away.  Try condensing some of the steam from the boil
kettle and tasting it -- yuck!

I always seem to lose more liquid than average as well, so my solution
is simply to top up the boil with water if it falls below the optimum
amount.  You can pre-boil the water if you're worried about the drop in
temperature, but since it will boil again after a few minutes, you don't
need to pre-boil it for sanitary reasons.

My kettle is graduated, which makes it easy to tell what the current
volume is.  If yours isn't, take your charismatic wooden spoon and
notch it at 1/2 gallon intervals.  Then you can stick it into the boiling
wort and tell how much you have left.

> 2) How do I make a light colored beer?

I asked myself this question for a while too.  I think it would be
somewhat difficult for a homebrewer to make something as pale as
BudMilloors.  The big boys use uncured malt that hasn't been roasted at
all after being kilned dry, and so is lighter than most malt I've
seen at the brew shop.  You may want to ask your malt supplier about
getting uncured or unroasted malt.

I'd guess that your average big commercial lager also contains more
water than your average homebrew.  That would make it lighter for sure.

I've never seen a beer style as pale as American lager; I think the
reason for the paleness is more due to economics than aesthetics.  But
who wants to homebrew a Bud?  You can achieve a satisfyingly pale beer
by using only light malts (pale and maybe a small portion of Vienna) and
making sure your wort has a reasonably low starting gravity (say 1.040,
give or take).

See the recipe I posted a few issues back (#954) for Kolsch.  That beer
consistently comes out only a few shades darker than Bud.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 08:46:35 PDT
From: Richard Childers <rchilder@us.oracle.com>
Subject: various and sundry


Ed Westmeier says :

"One of our local club members did some extensive experimenting with
 an electric drill attached to a Corona (after gettting the plates
 adjusted to his liking).

"The result of his research was that anything faster than one crank per
 second gave unacceptable results (too much flour).  A cheap adapter
 from the local hardware store stabilized his drill at 60 rpm and he is
 now a very happy camper who makes some pretty terrific beer."

Thanks !!!


Carlo Fusco asks :

"1) I added hops to my last brew for the first time. I did not want the hassel
 of sparging the leaves so I improvised. I boiled the hops in a small pot of
 water for 30 minutes. (I used pellets)  I then used a coffee filter to add
 the hop water to my boiling wort. I stirred it in and transfered it to a open
 primary.  Is this an acceptable way to add the bittering qualities of hops to
 my brew? Or, am I missing something really important by not boiling them in
 my wort? "

Hops are used in two ways. The first application is for bittering, and relies
upon the boiling action to loosen and detach the bittering molecules upon the
flower-leaf complex.

The second application is for flavoring, and this application requires nothing
like boiling in order to utilize, in fact it is often compared to a 'tea' ...
so your method would work for the second purpose of hops, but be less useful for
the first application.

"2) My last batch of beer is undercarbonated. I used 1 cup of corn sugar to
 prime 5 gallons.  It has been sitting at room temp. for 2 weeks now and still
 the problem persists.  I think it is because I did not leave a large enough
 air space in the bottle. If I pour out some of the beer and recap the bottles
 and leave them for another week, will carbination increase? If I do this will
 the risk of contamination greatly increase? Will there still be enough sugar
 and active yeast in the bottle to further increase carbination?"

I tend to fill my bottles up to within a half inch or so, and while the carbon-
 -ation is not readily visible in a closed bottle, this does not mean that it
is non-existent. The only true test is to open a bottle and see.

A note about over-carbonation ... you can tell that it's time to open the
bottles if you see the caps are convex, bulging upwards from CO2 pressure ...
this is useful for avoiding the 'glass grenade' syndrome.

 - -- richard

=====
 - -- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 09:46:10 MDT
From: jeorg@chs.com (Houck)
Subject: Re: Sterile Enough


>From: "Spencer W. Thomas"
>A fellow in her lab has a term: "sterile enough".

a group of us who brew together have a saying about this also:

"you can only error in one direction" (not sterile enough)
jeorg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:12:32 MDT
From: jeorg@chs.com (Houck)
Subject: gelatin


could someone send me a quick description of how to use
gelatin to clear a batch? (jack, i think you do this)

i've got 10 gals in the secondary that shows no signs of
clearing, and would like to try this. thanks.
jeorg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 12:50:03 -0400
From: trush@mhc.mtholyoke.edu (Thomas P. Rush)
Subject: Hop Yields (Tom Rush)

If anyone would like to compare notes on hop yeilds(Southern
New England vs. The World) I have just finished harvesting for the
season. Grading is subjective with "outstanding" interpreted as
the upper vines coverd with cones, almost enveloping the leaves,
and the lateral vines sagging under the weight of the cones.

1st year crop
Bullion-excellent           Fuggles-excellent
Willamette-poor(healthy vines)
Nugget-outstanding          Galena-excellent
Perle-good                  Eroica-good
Centennial-outstanding++    Goldings-fair(vines fair to good)
Hersbrucker-none(happy to have vines survive)
Liberty-none(vines late but healthy)
Chinook-poor(vines late but vigorous)
2nd year crop
Tettnanger-outstanding(triple the yeild of hallertau)
Hallertau-good
Cascade-outstanding+++(several gallon-size freezer bagfuls of
        tightly packed dried hops)

I don't use insecticides,fungicides,etc. Only problem thus far
are japanese beetles who seem to love Perle, Goldings, and
Liberty leaves(some cones) they avoid others in decending order
to the point of ignoring Bullion.

I find that drying on screens in the garage is not adequate in
humid atmosphere of this area. Placing the screens around the
furnace (which runs occasionally for hot water)for 2 to 4 days
depending on the size of the cones will dry them consistently
and also preserve their color and aroma.

Finally, two questions:

1. Does anyone know a vendor who sells "Northern Brewer"
rhizomes? I also have not seen "Challenger" for sale. This
would be for the 1993 spring planting.

2. Has anyone had anallergic reaction to picking and drying
hops? I have no known allergies but for some reason this year
I had nasel congestion during part of the picking season.
Coincidence? Are the lupulins powerful enough to necessitate
a dust mask?

Thanks...Tom Rush

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 13:01 EDT
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS@adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Request for recipe.

I am setting up for my first all-grain experience and would
like to brew a beer similar to Sam Adams (preferably their
stock ale).  If anyone knows of such an all-grain recipe I
would be appreciative.

                                   ... Thanks in advance,
                                       Christopher Lyons
                                       lyons@adc1.adc.ray.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:36:36 PDT
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Kieran Call Home

Kieran O'Connor: E-mail to your bitnet address bounced.  If you want to
hear my $ .02 on Gott, please e-mail me.

Jeff Frane (gummitch@techbook.com)



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 13:46:38 PDT
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Cajun Cooker=Toasted Porch
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

I have been using my Cajun Cooker for a couple years now.  In the past, I
have brewed out in the driveway, generally at night.  Well I had a day off
yesterday, and decided to brew a batch during the day on my front porch (out
of the sun).  The porch is cement painted red.  Well, as my wort was coming
to a boil over the rocket engine (Cajun Cooker), I noticed all the paint on
the porch was peeling up!  Oooops.  My solution was to space a piece of
aluminum off the porch with a few small pieces of angle iron.  Then, I put
the cooker over this heatshield.  Note that the legs of the cooker must rest
on the porch, not the heatshield, to support 15 gals of H2O.

Sure am glad I didn't try it on the redwood deck!

JC
johnc@hprpcd.rose.hp.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 13:22 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sterile, Doughin, Pullies etc.


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 >From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
 >Subject: "Sterile enough"

 I think the subject says it all.  There seems to be a strong emotional need
 here to name a cause everytime someoneELSE has a problem.  As sterility is
 difficult to prove, it is one of the old standbys.

 >It's kind of funny -- I'm running around paranoid about infection and
 she's much more casual.

 On the other hand, when a batch goes bad, it comes out of your pocket and I
 will bet she is spending taxpayer's money.

 >  : mcnally@wsl.dec.com

 >If you're doing a single-step mash by heating water and adding the
 grain to the water, the dough-in step is a pain.

 "Nothing great is lightly won."   B.F.

 > I've had success in breaking up flour by using a big wire whisk vigorously
 for a couple of minutes after dumping the dry grain into the mash water.

 That's a good aproach but breaking it up is not the same as getting it into
 solution and the only way to do this is a thorough and careful doughin.

 >From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS@CHE.UTAH.EDU>

 >Just take a chunk of dry ice, and put it in the bottom of your bottling
 bucket, and allow it to "melt" (actually, sublime.)  As the CO2 changes from
 solid to gas, it will displace the air in the container, and, since it is
 somewhat heavier than air, it will (hopefully) stay there.

 That is a good idea.  However, I suspect that dry ice is not all that
 convenient to come by for most people.  Those of us who keg beer accomplish
 the same thing by squirting a bit of CO2 into the keg prior to filling.  You
 could do the same in the priming bucket and be ready for kegging when you are
 ready to make the full plunge.

 >But, now that I think about it, I wonder if the dry ice might be full of
 contaminants and nasties.  Any thoughts on that?

 Doubt that much could survive at that temp to be much of a bother.

 >From: hartman@varian.varian.com (John Hartman)

 >On a different topic, I plan on motorizing my grain mill.  I have
 a 1700 rpm, 1/4 HP motor which I'd like to use.  I'll be attaching
 it to the mill with what I guess you'd call pulley wheels and a radiator
 belt.  I don't know who sells these pulleys though.
 Does anyone have a vendor for such pulleys, or at least an idea of
 what type of vendor sells them?

 Ace Hardware stocks a whole series of pullies (they are actually called
 sheaves)  and belts that I have used.  You need the smallest you can get and
 the largest.  I used a two inch on the motor and a ten inch on the mill.
 That gives you a ratio of 5:1 so your mill will be running at 340 RPM.  This
 is much faster than has recently been recommended for the Corona.  I have
 never even seen one so I have no opinion on the speed.  You will also have to
 match the bore on the pulley with the motor shaft and the mill shaft.  The
 smallest I have seen is 1/2" so you will probably have to get a bushing to
 get it down to the right size for the mill.

 >From: chuck@synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
 >Subject: Re: Electric Corona

 >I have only tested it with small amounts of grain.  I hope to have my new
 brewery finished this week, then I'll run about 20 lbs through it.

 Please share with us the thruput when you get it working.  I would be
 interested also in knowing how long it takes to mill a single pound and a 12
 lb lot.

 >From: Richard.Goldstein@EBay.Sun.COM (Richard Goldstein)

 >The reason I am wondering is that I seem to be boiling off more than
 most of the books/recipes assume.

 For what it is worth, Baderbrau claims that one of their secrets to the
 character of their beer is "firebrewing".  What this "boils" down to is a
 very vigorous boil.  Enough to caramelize part of the beer.

 What you are boiling off is only water and what you are looking for in the
 character of your beer determines what you do about it.

 If you want a heavy beer, boiling it off concentrates it.  If you are hungup
 and recepies and numbers, you can always put some of the water back to get
 the numbers you are looking for.

 I prefer to use more sparge water and make more wort to allow for the greater
 loss.

 It's your beer and only you can determine what works best for you.


 >But what do you folks do to create light colored beers?

 If "you folks" includes Bud, I suspect adding lots of water and sugar will do
 the trick.

 js


------------------------------

Date: 9 Sep 92 14:40:00 -0700
From: BELLAGIO_DAVID@Tandem.COM
Subject: RE: Big Bad Wolf and Beginner HOP question

Jack the Wolf,
               I was wondering if you have this effect on everyone you meet?
Do people that know you quickly turn and run when they see you coming down the
street?  I don't know what all the fuss is about, as since I've been reading
this digest nothing you have said, or anyone has said for that matter, has
offended me.  I simply read this and all digests relating to brewing beer so
I can become the ultimate beer maker, since I am already the ultimate beer
drinker.  Since I have only brewed 5 batches to date, I have a long way to go.
So I need all those more advanced brewers to continue posting their
advice and experience, good or bad, right or wrong, so I can at least have the
choice to accept it or discard it as I see fit.  So, hopefully, no one will
discontinue their participation in this digest simply because they don't like
someone.  Although, since this is America, they can do whatever they like.

About the beginner Hop question, I use a boiling bag to hold my hops while it
is in the wort.  I think this does not give me the same extraction rate as if
I just dumped the hops in.  I usually use whole hops and I guess I was worried
that they would clog my siphon after the wort is cooled.  Maybe I will give
it a try next time.


Super Dave

Bellagio_David@Tandem.Com

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  9 Sep 1992 21:42:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Wells Wilson <mw4w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Mail Order Homebrewing supplies


Can anybody give me the address of a reputable Mail Order HomeBrewing
Supplier?  Here at school (Pittsburgh) I find a lack of good homebrewing
stores.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:00:52 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: sterile, anaerobic, and carbonic

In HBD # 965

re: sterile enough

I tend to concur with Spencer Thomas's wife: extreme sterility is
overdoing it. At home I do my plating in the kitchen, with no special
precautions whatsoever but flaming the loops. I even do not quick cool
the loops, I use two instead: while one is in use, the other is cooling,
and no, it does not attract all the nasties of creation, these things
have such a _small_ cross-section!

While it is true that brewing takes longer than the overnight culture of
E. coli, a good starter will introduce zillions of yeasts, and one or
two lone bacteria won't stand a chance in the time it takes for a few
percent of ethanol to build up and stop them in their tracks.

re: aerobic vs anaerobic

The CO2 blanket over a fermenter is a fairly good insulator when it
comes to oxygen, but in addition the yeast will gobble up any stray
oxygen, maintaining the concentration to a very low level; also, it is
not strictly true that fermentation is an anaerobic process: while under
anaerobic conditions, only fermentation can provide energy to the yeast,
it is also the case that under high nutrient conditions (i.e. wort with
lots of sugars) the lazy yeasts will prefer to ferment rather than going
to the trouble of maintaining the complicated machinery required for
respiration. They will thus produce alcohol even in the presence of
adequate oxygenation. This is not true in the case of poor media (apple
juice for instance).


re: dry ice

Chuck Coronella worries about contaminants in dry ice. He's right, it's
a bit grungy, but the solution is simple: put the dry ice in a bottle,
and fit a piece of plastic tubing in the mouth, with a pierced stopper
if necessary. Place the open end of the tubing in the bucket or carboy,
and wait for the CO2 to sublime in the bottle and pass into the bucket
via the tubing. For extra safety, put a piece of sterile cotton in the
mouth of the bottle before fitting the tubing.


Pierre



Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
                                    Columbia University, New York

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:07:23 -0500
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Chimay Yeast & Banana, another data point...


     Just another data point for strong banana ester production with Chimay
yest at higher temps.  I brewedwhat started out to be a dubbel, but the FG
it ended up at, and the color made it closer to a trippel.  Oh well...

     Batard de Belgique

     6#  US 2-row
     3.25#  Dexterine malt
     2#  unmalted wheat
     1# light brown sugar
     1C blackstrap molasses
     1.5 oz. 6.1% alpha East Kent Goldings
     2/3C Corn sugar (priming)

     Cook 0.5# 2-row malt and the 2# of unmalted wheat in 4-5 qt. of water
until gelatinized (about 45 minutes).  Mix cooked wheat into main mash water
and stir until well mixed.

     Mash in: 12 qt. @ 138f
     Protein rest: 30 min. @ 126-131f
     Mash: 2 hrs. @ 148-152f
     Mash out: 5 minutes @ 170f

     Sparge 6.5 gal @ 170f

     Boil: 2.5 hrs.
     Hops: 1 addition, 60 minutes from end of boil.

     OG: 1.070  (5.75 gal)
     FG: 1.011

     The long, rather cool mash seemed to break down the dexterine malt more
than I would have liked, and I only had 1.5 oz. of hops around, so the batch
is underhopped.  I didn't notice a lot of banana ester during the fermentation,
and it tasted sweetish and has a somewhat strong molasses note at bottling,
with a noticible, but not too strong, banana component.  Underneath was the
characteristic woody-spicy accents I associate with Chimay.  One week after
bottling, the banana seemed to subside, and things *seemed* to be going along
rather nicely.  However, at two weeks after bottling, the banana component
came back with a vengence!  I dropped off a 6-pack for one of my brewing
comrades, and he called me yesterday to say that it was "rudely banana".

     I hope the esters subside with age, as it is overpowering right now.  On
opening, a bottle almost fills the room with the ripe banana smell.  The taste
is intensely banana!!!  Fermentation was at about 70-75f, for what it's worth.
Only time will tell, I guess...

===============================================================================

Todd Enders - WD0BCI                  ARPA: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                       UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University                  or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND  58701                     Bitnet: enders@plains

     "The present would be full of all possible futures,
      if the past had not already projected a pattern upon it" - Andre' Gide

===============================================================================


------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #966, 09/10/92
*************************************
-------

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing