HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:  (C-Loh)
Subject: Best Australian Universities?
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:50:12 GMT

In the Independent Monthly Good Universities Guide 
to Australian Universities (1993), edited by Dean Ashenden
and Sandra Milligan, the following facts are interesting:

Abbrev: B - better than average graduate salaries in that study area
								A - average graduate salaries
								W - worse tahn average

In terms of salaries:

												Acct		Econ			Eng			Medi		Law		Rating (incl others)
Macquarie					B				B						-					-					A			*****
Newcastle					B    A      A     W     -			****
Sydney								A				A						B					W					B			****
UNSW										B				A						A					W					B			****
QUT											W				-						W					-					W			**
QUEENSLAND				W				A						A					A					A			**
ADELAIDE						W				W						A					A					A			**
TASMANIA						A				A						A					A					A			**
MELBOURNE					A				B						A					B					W			****
MONASH								A				A						A					W					W			**
UWA											W				W						B					B					W			****

Further info will be continued....


Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui)
Subject: Re: ******* ASIANS FACE RACE BIAS -an aussie reply-
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:12:08 GMT

detchay@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TONY CHAY) writes:
[deleted]
>	1.  Asians often stick to themselves, most don't mix with the 
>average Aussie student.  
>	3.  Often the only clubs they join at university are Malaysian Law 
>Students, Hong Kong students, etc ,  So further segregating themselves, don'
>t blame the Aussies for getting pissed off at your almost secretive and 
>seperatist behaviour.
>	4.  I have witnessed and been involved in many situations where 
>Asians have made it quite clear that all Australians are just Beer swilling 
>non-serious students who are basically dumb.  Here is the Yellow superiorty 
>making the Aussies angry that you come over here and knock us and our 
>culture and our differing work ethic.
What a good observation! To this end, I must add that segregation among
overseas students from different places also exists (but not to that
extent). 

I would purpose the reason be that the students actually have no (concrete) 
idea of "international education". This is particularly obvious from
those students from place where place for higher education is low, eg.
HK, Malaysia. Besides, the universities (maybe the admission center) always 
stress the quality of education by putting what recogition they receiving 
from what institution, what salaries their graduates receiving. As a 
result, what really exported, I would term, not EDUCATION, 
but CREDIT (or even worse PAPER).

To me, "international education" should emphasizs not only on the 
subject taught in various facultes but also the interaction
among students and various academic people, wherever they are from. 
In fact, I also believe that human interaction forms a vital part 
of tertiary education.

[deleted]

>about how the lecturers treat Asians as sub-human etc, etc.   Let me just 
>say that most lecturers think of all undergraduates as not worth talking 
>too, they really don't care about us.  Asian or Aussie to the university 
>and her staff (with a few exceptions) we are all just numbers, files and 
>thats it.  It is impersonal and you will (as I have) get the brush off from 
>lecturers who view undergraduates as having nothing worthy to say to them. 
>Please don't go around sprouting shit cliches about Aussie racism, were all 
>in the same boat.  Sure you probably do get discriminated against sometimes 
So, are you saying that the teacher-student interaction in the uni is
far too behind what you'd expect? If you really think so, I'd purpose
you make some change to help YOUR higher education.

Humphrey Hui   (eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au)
               (HHUI@basil.eng.monash.edu.au)

Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: tsuanian@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: Australian Universities failed
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:59:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.014248.9336@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, u926009@postoffice.utas.edu.au (C-Loh) writes:
> Refer to news on 'The Australian'[15 JULY 1992 page 5] "Universities fail
> overseas students test", a survey entitled "Australian Education: Excellent 
> or Dismay"  by the National Liaison Committee (NLC)
> for overseas students in Australia revealed that in most fields Australian
> Universities were rated "below average". The major reason that overseas
> students came to  Australia is the proximity of Australia to their home
> countries. Most of them still think British or American Education is better.
> 
> Prof Ian Falconer, the deputy vice-chancellor of the University of Adelaide,
> however, emphasize that the post-graduate courses in Australia take longer and
> show the guaruantee of quality education.
> 
> The result is released by Mr Quek ngee Meng, the national convenor for NLC, at
> the Flinders University.
>   
> 
> C-Loh 
What I'd like to know is why postgraduate courses cost so much.
Especially those that are research based.  I mean, I read up,
consult my lecturer, use the net, use a pc, ocassionally use the
fax, and they are charging me $14500 per annum? where is it all
going?


Ian.
-- 
 Internet: TSUANIAN@cc.curtin.edu.au
 Bitnet: TSUANIAN%cc.curtin.edu.au@cunyvm.bitnet
 UUCP  : uunet!munnari.oz!cc.curtin.edu.au!TSUANIAN
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan)
Subject: Re: Chang Thiaw, don't you response?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:23:12 GMT

eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui) writes:

>(Juliet) writes:

>>Don't you have any feeling at all, I hunger for your reply.
>>Shall we meet at the library. How do we recognise each others?
>>Yes, I'll wear a red rose and a black skirt. Well you shall wear a white 
		 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Is that all ? What about your top ?

>>singlet with a hat.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	What about his bottom ?	

>>HOpe to see you on this coming Saturday at 2pm at the Morris entrance.
>>Don't let me down.

>I hate this kind of personal matter to be put on the net. Would you keep
>your personal matter on your personal mail? 

	Humph, maybe she's got her reason ...

>Humphrey Hui   (eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au)
>               (HHUI@basil.eng.monash.edu.au)
From: eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui)
Subject: Re: ******* ASIANS FACE RACE BIAS -an aussie reply-
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:44:21 GMT

sleejy@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
[deleted]
>> 	2.  I get ranckled when I am in an elevator and a group of Asians 
>> talk in their own language.  

>  Look at it from another angle, we came here and learn your language i.e.
>English.  What about you?  Did you make an effort to learn our language??
>Understand our culture and customs?? ;)  Probably not, I guess!  So for
>starters, please don't feel _bad_ !  Step in the right direction by learning
>our language and culture and maybe then you'll understand why! ;) Then we
>may all communicate better! ;)  Make a better Australia! :)
I can't really make up the logic behind your argument! We, as overseas
students, came over to a foreign country to learn. However, you're
asking the local people to learn about your culture and get to
thoroughly understand even what is in your mind. It is rather absurd.

For example, if you travelled to a Muslim country, would you drink on the
street and persuade other to do so by simply saying that it is your
CULTURE? Probably, you wouldn't do so. On the other hand, some of these
country understand your CULTURE and set aside place for drinking (in
hotel).

>  Joining a club with people from your home country is noting _wrong_ at all.
>We all feel home sick from time to time, we need to talk to people from our
>home country who share the feeling of home sickness.  An experience you may
>not have had yet.  Try asking yourself how would you feel a few thousand miles
>away from home and with no one to share your fares, your home sickness with??
>;)  I bet its not all that plesant.  So try not to be more judgemental.  

Life for the local student would probably easier than an average OS.
However, don't go too far that they would never have their problem. 

>  As for segregating ourselves, well.. that's another point of view.  On our
>campus, a lot of the Students club also welcome anyone at all to join.  I
>personally knew a few of my Australian mates who join a few of such clubs like
>the Malaysian Student club, Singaporean Student club, etc.  They enjoy it
>very much too cause they make a lot of new friends and when they came over to
>Malaysia or Singapore.  They can call us up and we show them around our country
>so they in turn enjoy more. ;)  (Its like having a free tour guide, how's that?)
>;)
Are you suggesting the only purpose those students mixing with OS is for
free tour guide? BTW, where are you from, and can you be my tour guide
one day? :-)

Humphrey Hui  (eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au)
              (HHUI@basil.eng.monash.edu.au)
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: kaic@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan)
Subject: Re: ******* ASIANS FACE RACE BIAS -an aussie reply-
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:10:59 GMT

ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan) writes:
>detchay@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TONY CHAY) writes:

	[deleted - see original]

>	Oops ! Aren't you overlooking something, I don't see any White
>members in any of those clubs either. Segregation occurs because no one
>seems to care. And don't blame it all on non-Whites.

	Exactly. In my years in MUOSS, many events have been organised and
Australian students have been specifically encouraged to turn up, the idea
being to foster closer relations between overseas students and locals.
BUT, more often than not, only a handful of Australian students will turn up.
So, it is also a case of Australian students not wanting to participate and
mix with Overseas students. 

>
>May I ask, where's Iberia ?
>

	Iberia is a province in Spain. 

Regards,
DC

==_|_=====================================================================
| \ / ~~>      David Kai C. Chan    | Tel:+613 3444650, Fax:+613 3446678 |
| _V_ <~~   Photonics Research Labs |"First, let there be optical fibres"|
|  |  PRL    Melbourne  University  |    "Then, let there be light..."   |
==========================================================================

Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: kaic@mamura.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan)
Subject: Re: Australian Universities failed
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:33:53 GMT

tsuanian@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>u926009@postoffice.utas.edu.au (C-Loh) writes:
>
>	[stuff deleted]
>> 
>> Prof Ian Falconer, the deputy vice-chancellor of the University of Adelaide,
>> however, emphasize that the post-graduate courses in Australia take longer and
>> show the guaruantee of quality education.
>> 
>> C-Loh 
>
>What I'd like to know is why postgraduate courses cost so much.
>Especially those that are research based.  I mean, I read up,
>consult my lecturer, use the net, use a pc, ocassionally use the
>fax, and they are charging me $14500 per annum? where is it all
>going?

	Exactly the same question I asked at the 1990 NLC conference in
Adelaide, but it was ducked. It is pretty odd that they are charging so much
for things like you mentioned. Furthermore, a lot of the research that
overseas students are engaged in are potentially very beneficial to Australia
- yet, the fees aren't helping to encourage the same students.

	Where is it all going? Probably down the black hole that is
masquerading as the Australian Economy!

Regards,
DC

==_|_=====================================================================
| \ / ~~>      David Kai C. Chan    | Tel:+613 3444650, Fax:+613 3446678 |
| _V_ <~~   Photonics Research Labs |"First, let there be optical fibres"|
|  |  PRL    Melbourne  University  |    "Then, let there be light..."   |
==========================================================================


Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: kaic@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan)
Subject: Re: An Aussie's Reply
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:47:04 GMT

eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui) writes:

	[some stuff deleted]

>Besides, to be frank, all the local students have their family and
>friends here. In order to, get into their world, I think the
>overseas students should be taking the effort hard. While saying so, I
>don't deny the importance of the role plyed by the aussie in the
>process.

	True - local students here would already have their own circle of
friends. IMO, good friends are worth the hard effort, provided both sides
are willing to be friends, of course.

>
>Great! You seems to be sharing the same concept I have for
>"international education". 

	Yep, more or less. Life isn't just a string of straight 'A's and
'HD's, or a stack of degrees, wouldn't you agree?

>BTW, the world "university" stemed from the word (root?) "universal".
>And, looking back to the origin of "university", can we do the same in
>this 1990's and Australian context?

	We should be able to, if we strive for it.

Regards,
DC

==_|_=====================================================================
| \ / ~~>      David Kai C. Chan    | Tel:+613 3444650, Fax:+613 3446678 |
| _V_ <~~   Photonics Research Labs |"First, let there be optical fibres"|
|  |  PRL    Melbourne  University  |    "Then, let there be light..."   |
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: kaic@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan)
Subject: Re: ******* ASIANS FACE RACE BIAS -an aussie reply-
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:10:20 GMT

eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui) writes:
>sleejy@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>>	[some stuff deleted]
>>  Joining a club with people from your home country is noting _wrong_ at all.
>>We all feel home sick from time to time, we need to talk to people from our
>>home country who share the feeling of home sickness.  An experience you may
>>not have had yet. Try asking yourself how would you feel a few thousand miles
>>away from home and with no one to share your fares, your home sickness with??
>>;)  I bet its not all that plesant.  So try not to be more judgemental.  
>
>Life for the local student would probably easier than an average OS.
>However, don't go too far that they would never have their problem. 

	Still what sleejy wrote in the paragraph above is a valid example for
Australians. A lot of the local students would not have had the opportunity to
study outside Australia. Consequently, many of them may be uninformed about
the problems of an average O.S., and getting local students to put themselves
in our shoes is quite a good way of enlightening them.

	Of course, this does not suggest that local students never have any
problems - we overseas students ought to (try) see things from the local
students' perspective. In short "we should do what we preach to others".

	(	Lest we become hypocrites!!!	B-]	)

>Humphrey Hui  (eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au)
>              (HHUI@basil.eng.monash.edu.au)

Regards,
DC

==_|_=====================================================================
| \ / ~~>      David Kai C. Chan    | Tel:+613 3444650, Fax:+613 3446678 |
| _V_ <~~   Photonics Research Labs |"First, let there be optical fibres"|
|  |  PRL    Melbourne  University  |    "Then, let there be light..."   | 
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: ystan@fawlty10.eng.monash.edu.au (Mr YS Tan)
Subject: Re: Australian Universities failed
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:13:23 GMT

kaic@mamura.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan) writes:
		... deleted ...

>>But then we had lots of rubbish like organic, inorganic & physical
>>chemistry ---> a waste of time ( including 3 hrs lab each week). In 2nd yr

>	I beg to differ - chemistry is definitely NOT a waste of time IMO.
>It's a pity that when I did undergrad here at Melbourne, the double degree
>courses were highly inflexible - I'd have done more chemistry! Of course,
>that shouldn't mean that everyone else have to do it - people should be
>given a choice.

	Just what I meant (perhaps I haven't been phrasing it properly) :
students should have choice of what they need to study ,despite the 
core subjects.

>	Unlucky them! Chemistry is such a great subject! 	B-)

	I think I owe an apology to CHEMISTRY. I used to like chemistry 
back in Secondary school. The only reason that I was refering it as a 
waste of time, was because I was "forced" (maybe this word is a bit too
heavy) to take it, and it just would relate to the electrical circuits
that I am dealing with. IMHO, high school chemistry would be sufficient
for people who would have nothing to do with chemistry in their career.


Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: rayhann@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Rayhann CHEE)
Subject: Re: An Aussie's Reply
Organization: Department of Computer Sci, University of Melbourne
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:57:07 GMT

In article <eln235s.712319487@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au> eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (mr  h    hui) writes:
>
>I quite agree it is a 2 way street. However, although I'm an overseas 
>students, I sometimes found it is the problem of overseas students 
>behaving in an unacceptable manner. For example, in some of the lab, I 
>found it is not uncommon the overseas students grouped themselves 
>together if given a chance. Even worse, for some of the group, if 2 of 
>the members speak the same dialect, they would even switch to their 
>own dialect for discussion, leaving the 3rd (Aussie) student or even 
>the demostrator in the cloud.

Well there is a tendency for the asians to behave that way in labs or for that
matter anywhere. Pity though... but then perhaps they have certain things that
they do not know how to express in the English language. Not all asians who
pass the TOEFL or related English language examinations have a sufficient high
standard of english to use in a laboratory considering that some of the terms 
are highly technical. However I agree that it is bad manners to converse in
a language where one of the partners do not understand. IMO it is alright if
the people take the trouble to translate though.


>Great! You seems to be sharing the same concept I have for
>"international education". 
>

Gotta get together and set up some comm groups... *grin*

rayhann
From: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
Subject: Re: An Aussie's Reply
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:38:46 GMT
Reply-To: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Organization: University of Melbourne

In article <1992Jul28.020533.16703@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia) writes:

|> As for not mixing with Aussies - That is a sad fact. I concur with other 
|> netters that feelings of being homesick, need for familarity, etc, often 
|> leads us to associate with fellow Asians, including people we would 
|> normally not befriend back home. However, there is not reason for the 
|> emotional anchors provided by these ethnic enclaves to continue for the 
|> three to five years of University education. The point is not 
|> the fact that Asians mix with fellow Asians, there
|> is nothing wrong with that. The issue is that Asians do not tend to mix with
|> fellow Aussie students and continue to segregate themselves and allow 
|> themselves to be segregated.

An important point is that Asians and Australians do not share a common 
culture. This is the prime reasons for overseas Asian students (especially with
Chinese ethnic background) not to take steps associate with Australians. For
many, they are just not so keen to learn about the western culture and again
for many, their aim is to get a degree and go home. Unless you can convince
them this is not enough and there are more to appreciate, there is little 
urge for them to mix around with local Australians. It is the culture and
not the language which is the barrier. In day to day living, they just don't
share the same "language" -- sports, music, ideas and attitudes etc.

Lin Can
=========================================================================
.-- .... --- . ...- . .-. -.. . -.-. --- -.. . -.. - .... .. ...
--. . - ... -. --- - .... .. -. --.   .-.. .. -. -.-. .... .- -.
=========================================================================
                                          

Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: An Aussie's Reply
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:05:33 GMT

IMHO, Chay had given a very persuasive and perceptive account of one of the
causes for ill feeling towards Asians. As was indicated by the heading, it
was an Aussie's perspective and so the fact that a number of replies to his
reply which centres on the fact that Aussie's should not feel the way they
did were irrelevant.

Take the example of Asians speaking in their own language. IMHO, speaking in
a language not understood by someone in your company is an indication of bad
manners. I have also been in the company of a great many Asians who use their 
native language to criticise Aussies. Furthermore, I believe that a English 
test is required of students being educated in Australian Universities and so
ignorance of English is not a particularly good excuse. While I support the
right to use one's 'native' language as the language of preference socially,
I cannot but feel that in many instances, this 'right' has been exercised by 
sacrificing good manners, by excluding Aussie's from conversations and by
seeming secretive.

As for not mixing with Aussies - That is a sad fact. I concur with other 
netters that feelings of being homesick, need for familarity, etc, often 
leads us to associate with fellow Asians, including people we would 
normally not befriend back home. However, there is not reason for the 
emotional anchors provided by these ethnic enclaves to continue for the 
three to five years of University education. The point is not 
the fact that Asians mix with fellow Asians, there
is nothing wrong with that. The issue is that Asians do not tend to mix with
fellow Aussie students and continue to segregate themselves and allow 
themselves to be segregated.

Most of my statements are general and no doubt many exceptions can be made.

Edmund

Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: Law & Econ
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:35:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.064419.7368@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, s1135133@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Emyria Bok) writes:
> 
> Hi friends !!
> 
> 
> I'm posting this on behalf of my brother, who's intending to pursue a double
> degree in Law and Economics.  He wants to know what are the better and more
> prestigous universities around the world to pursue these courses.
> 
> I would appreciate quotes from sources/books, or just your experiences and
> opinions.
> 
> Please reply before 17th August 1992.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Emy.
> 
> ***************************************************************
> * s1135133@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au * "Meow."                   *
> * Monash University, Gippsland    *      --- The Catwoman in  *
> * Australia.                      *       * BATMAN RETURNS *  *
> ***************************************************************


Try Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford or the University of Tokyo. However, if its
cheap fees, clean living and a good education he's interested in, try the 
University of Tasmania(although its Law degree is not recognised by Singapore
but everything else is)

Edmund
Newsgroups: aus.students.overseas