HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jialin@dogwood.botany.uga.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: A victory?
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:33:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: rigel.1992Oct13.143336.15330
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <Bw1Fo3.2Jp@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>>>China definitely will be better off due to this new law. Don't believe it?
>>>Let's wait and see: china bashing will be reduced to near zero in a year,
>>>not even to mention longer term benefits. Ciao.
>>
>>What? How? Why? What are you talking about? Whose bashing China? (Hope it's
>>not me :-)) How are you going to reduce it. What are the long term benefits
>>to China?
>
>	Oh Mark, you did miss his point.  :-(
>
>	See, all these China bashing currently going on is more or less
>fueled by these people who are desperate enough to do anything to get
>their green cards.  (Read Dr. Zhao Haiqing's messages again to see
>how he described the difference between "high-profile lobby on CMFN"
>and "low-profile lobby on greencard".).  Once they got what they
>want, there is no more motivation for continuing this silly and
>disgusting game (except for a few would-be politicians, of course).

Eddie, I think you are disgusting by saying so. There are plenty of
people that have nothing to do with the greencard issue, what game 
are they playing? 

I respect your opinion regarding MFN, hope you at least show some
respect to other human rights activists too.
 
>	In all my sadness on what had happened, I sincerely wish to see
>this scenerio to occur as a possible good by-product.  I also hope
>to see more CSS to come out and defend China's trade status now that
>the green card issue is settled (and some people can now get their
>souls back).
>
>	Help China after you have helped yourself, if not before.

You need to understand, everyone thinks he's right in his own mind;
the people with different opinions than yours think that they are 
helping China the *right* way. There is no one can judge who is right
or wrong. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: dxl@philabs.philips.com (Du Li)
Subject: Re: Time to evaluate ourselves 
Keywords: Morality
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:42:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.000809.15352@Princeton.EDU> syu@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Song Yu) writes:
>Now that S1216 has been signed into law, my fellow Chinese students, it is time 
>to calm down and think about ourselves. 
>
>Don't argue with other people about what they should do or not.
>Ask ourselves:
>1. Why do I want to stay here(the U.S.)?
>2. How did those Chinese students get their PR before S1216? Can I get my PR the same way if I want to stay here? If not, why?
>3. If June 4 had not happen, what would I do? Go home or try to stay here? If try to stay here, how to do it?
>4. What I am really afraid of when thinking about going home? Poverty or political
>prosecution?
>5. What do I think about what I have done during 1989(either here or in China) as compared with what the people in China (and still stay there) have done during 1989?
>6. How would I feel about those who died on June 4 when I resort to S1216?
>7. When my life becomes easier after I get the PR through S1216, how would I think about June 4 and my standard of morality?
>8. Do I really deserve the protection or I just need badly an easier way to get a PR?
>9. How am I going to explain the way I get my PR to my child in the future? What would I tell my child about those who died on June 4?
>
>The list of questions can be endless. Other people may come up with more profound
>and more disturbing questions. 
>


One more question:

What sould we do to help those people who devote themselves to the democracy
of China but are still in CCP's jail, like Wang, Juntao, Chen, Ziming,
Sheng, Tong, etc.?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU>
Subject:      China Bank
Reply-To: Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:31:43 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Before You starting to trash the country, PRC which happened to my country,
make sure who, China Bank, or your master US' bank is lying. It only
reveals your slave metality that your jump gun that China Bank is lying.
Event China Bank is lying, is it China Bank policy to do the lying or
some crook in the Bank did it?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: ZHAO@HUXTAL.BITNET
Subject:      CCSA: FINAL VICTORY ON S1216
Reply-To: ZHAO@HUXTAL.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:17:00 GMT

Distribution-File:
        council@math19.gatech.edu
        cnd-us@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
        svc@hal.cwru.EDU
        IFCSS@HAL.CWRU.EDU
        CHINA-NT@UGA.BITNET
        osu.chinese@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu
        china-news-post@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
        ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu,
        cgsa@fuzzy.umd.edu,
        cnd-us@library.uta.edu,


*****************************************************************

          IFCSS/CCSA: FINAL VICTORY ON S1216

****************************************************************


          TO:       Chinese Students and Scholars Nationwide

          From:     Haiching Zhao, Chairman, IFCSS/CCSA

          Date:     October 9, 1992

     S1216 is signed by the President this morning!

     It is the final victory for all the Chinese students, scholars
and Chinese nationals in the U.S.!

     Congratulations for all of you who have worked so hard on this
bill and who have supported our long-time lobbying effort for the
last three years!

     A detailed report regarding the final hours of the bill will
be sent out shortly.

/end
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: ping@summit.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Ping Ding)
Subject: Re:      It's our turn to help HK students being charged!
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:18:47 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <BvwJx8.E11@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "UCLA K.Y."  
<EDT2LRF@UCLAMVS.BITNET> writes:
> 
>     "To Kwan Hang", "Tsoi Yiu Cheong", "Wong Ching Man"
> 
We should do something for them, but I can't even pronunciate their
names according to this kind of "pin yin".
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Youwei Wang <ywang@CABELL.VCU.EDU>
Subject:      note
Reply-To: Youwei Wang <ywang@CABELL.VCU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:35:58 GMT
Comments: To: "(China-NT)" <china-nt%uga.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>

Hi!
     Would you please tell us more about Zhao Haiqing, the great name, our
hero, just as Americans were told about their commander in chief of the gulf
war. I would like to show my appreciation to him and all other guys who did
the great job for us.

     Thank you!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: yzhang@math15.math.umbc.edu (Yin Zhang)
Subject: Re: Prison Labor Central Part of the Economy?
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.163913.13160@news.acns.nwu.edu> 
zdlin@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (ZhongDong Lin) writes:

>In article <Bw82tB.21z@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
>>In an Op-Ed article in today's New York Times, Mr. A. M. Rosenthal
>>twice claimed that the "products of the slave labor camps" (commonly
>>called prison labor) is the "central part of the Communist economy".
>>
>>	Just for the record.
>>
>>	 Eddie
>
> Did he mention where he got his information from?  Just curious?
>

He does not need information, politically correct attitude and good
imagination are sufficient.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Conference, Sino-Tibetan Relations: Prospects for the future
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 07:58:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.235549.6861@news.Hawaii.Edu> wendong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Wen-Dong Tang) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.101438.8508@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (su jianfeng) writes:
>>
>>If you feel being treated unequally and being mistreated by the other
>>members of the family, you can leave the family and forget the property.
>>The same answer to those seeking Tibet independence.  I suggest them to
>>leave Tibet.
>
>I am so sorry to read your statement here! Do you REALLY understand what you were talking about?  All the architactors will definately praise you: you don't like the way I slave you guys? just get out of here.  Hiltler did that, you want to do that again?  No, you can not do that, but the CCP will like to do further, they already did a lot.

Did Jews try to claim any part of Germany to be independent?  Did Hilter
tell Jews to leave the country?  What will the CCP like to do further?                        
>>>So many CCS are waiting for Bush's decision. Why are they waiting? Let me tell you, just because in China we fail to overthrow the government we do not want, just because we have to separate from the government, and because we can not build another count
>>ry on the Earth, so we have to ask a democratic country to receive us. Is this our fault?  Should I still point out to you that we already made our dicision?
>>
>>Why did you use 'we' instead of 'I'.  Would you please give a further
>>explanation to make clean the boundary.
>
>>>It is not a utopia, guy.  Free voting has been carried out in so many countries for so long.  Of course each country has their own problem in carrying out free voting.  But that is already a great step in people's self-determination.  And it is much bett
>>er than the government the poor Chinese have to choose.
>>>
>>People's self-determination =?= freely migration
>>
>Guy, people's self-dertermination is the basic human rights.  Although we can not fully achieve that now. Free-voting is the best way NOW to carry it out.  In an arbitory kingdom, CAN you? 
>
>In trm of freely migration, I suggest you read what you have written: if you don't like your family, you can just go!  As I wrote above, it is wrong for the fate of whole people; however, it could be right for a small nomber of people who temperorily can not get rid of the blood government.  Please, guy, distinguish these two.
>
Would you tell me the country in which local people are quaranteed the
right for self-determination?  Why?  Does free voting based on all
people in a country mean self-determination?  Do you mean getting rid of
the blood government can solve the problem?   What is the solution you
suggested? 


J Su 


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: FUW@conan.ie.orst.edu
Subject:      Re: forwarded: Next Move for Group B?
Reply-To: FUW@conan.ie.orst.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:26:23 GMT
Comments: To: JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU, CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

> ------------------------forwarded without comments-------------------------
> >>    For those came after 4/90, we'll all keep eyes open for them. Who
> >>knows what will happened in China in the next year.  The important thing is
> >       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >Here, your logic is very interesting to me. Do you expect that those came
> >after 4/90 can use another June 4th massacre as excuse to get green??
>
>   No, they don't need an excuse. USA is a country respects equal rights
> and freedom for all. If by next July, China is not safe for the group A, it
> will not be safe to the group B member also. Brothers sisters must help each
> other, they helped us on the protection bill, we should help them in the
 future.
> More important, the group B should help themselves by organized action like
 the
> group A. Some people suggested we group A should contribute $10 each to IFCSS.
> Maybe IFCSS should also begin a donation account to collect donations from the
> group A to begin planning and doing a campaign to give them some protection.
 At
> least they can begin study the best stretagy for the "group B campaign": a
 bill,
> or a executive order? A low-key campaign, or a high-key campaign? Or else?
>
>   A CSS from group A


I think that you are right.  As a member of so called "group A" (I don't like
the idea to divide people into so called two groups.  We should be the same
and equal.  We should stay united.)  I do think we should keep our eyes
open,  look for new opportunity to help those who came over later.  They
helped us. We should help them!

FUW
Oregon State
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: Freedom or persecution
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:07:06 GMT

In article <9210160931.aa20882@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu> ahu@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Amy Hu) writes:
>
>My only concern, which
>is similar to the above poster, is that Mr. Yeh's Constitutional Rights have
>been violated.  

I don't think Mr. Yeh's Constitution Right has been violated. What
is your evidence of this charge? He has been free to post any radical
article in the net and no body bothered to care about it too much.

However, people feel that he has probably abused his right of free
speech. For example, he is allegedly to have violated other people's
right for employment which could be personally demaging.

My question is the following: what would be your reaction if someone
send a letter to your boss which may end up your lossing the job?

>As an American citizen and growing-up in the States most of my
>life, I strongly believe in an individual's right for freedom of speech; and
>this right is given to all people dwelling on this land of freedom.  Whether
>or not Mr. Yeh made any repulsive remarks to anybody, he should be granted the
>freedom to express his opinion.  

Your statement here sounds arrogant. Most people under this Bill can become
a citizen of this country. They will have equal right, no more and no less
than you, in a few years. You belief is right. It is also my belief even
I am not an American citizen and did not grow up most of my life in this
country. I don't see how your claiming that you are a citizen and grow
up most of life in here could make your statement any stronger. It only
shows your arrogance. If that is your basis, the only thing I can tell
you is that my son could be more arrogant in front of you, because
he is a born American.


>If you find his remarks offensive or
>out-of-line, then take legal action.  

I guess this is exactly what was suggested. No body in this net has
suggested that Yeh should be assasinated.

>Since most of
>you are now probably in the process of obtaining a green card, maybe it's
>time for you to learn how to accept criticisms, discrimination, and the rest
>of the package that comes with your card, because those are the realism of
>democracy believe it or not.

This is arrogant again. I don't think you became citizen of this country
because you are willing to accept discrimination and "rest of the package".
It makes me to wonder if you are the person who is going to offer the
"rest of the package".

I can only tell you the following. When these people have decided to
stay here, they must have balanced their interest. Some of them may
not be as successful, but some will. Probably some will be much better
than you. America will still be proud of them just like anyone else
who has contributed to this country.

>If you can't bear what I have just said, perhaps you don't belong in this
>country afterall.

They bear as long as everyone here would bear. They should react to
any thing wrong just like any American would react. No more and no less.

>Amy Hu

Xiao Li

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: jiang@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Fenglai Jiang)
Subject: Re: china attacks U.S. bill protecting Chinese students
Organization: University of Engineering, College of Engineering
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.122114.9085@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> lwang@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au () writes:
>
>In the article titled "China Attacks U.S. bill protecting Chinese students"
>in today's clari.news.gov.international:
> 
>
>The foreign ministry spokeman (for PRCG) said:
>	``It has been indicated on many occasions that no matter what their
>political attitudes were, they are welcomed to return to work for the
>socialist construction of the country and will be properly resettled,''
>
>Yes. I like to return to work for the construction of the country(e.g. China),
>but I would not work for a construction if it is socialist.
>
>Luo Wang
> 
>from Australia
>


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zxu@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Xu)
Subject: Anybody called Bush on Larry King Show?
Originator: zxu@rodan.acs.syr.edu
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 12:44:31 EDT

Hi, Did anybody call President Bush regarding Chinese Students on Larry
King Show of CNN ?
If you watched the  whole show, please let us know what happened.

I hope that nobody called him .    

Thanks,  

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Should IFCSS sue Shannon Yeh?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:47:04 GMT

In article <Bw4otF.HKA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> yuechen@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  
(yueting chen) writes:
> In article <yzhou.719092210@void> yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)  
writes:
> >What Shanoon Yeh has done in misc.jobs.*** is against equal opportunity
> >and is prohibited by law. I urge IFCSS to protect CSS's rights and take
> >this guy to court.
> >
> >
> >joe
> >
> 
> Strongly support this idea!

Although we may lose our Bozo in the net, I'd still like to support the idea to  
take Shannon Yeh to court.

Carl
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:53:17 EDT
From: <YXZ100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: 6/4 Amnesty, Qiao Shi proposed, Jiang Zeming opposed.

Answer: read Dong Xiaoping's lips.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: China Bank
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:17:50 GMT

In article <1bhhv5INNhdb@phakt.usc.edu> zyou@phakt.usc.edu (Zhongbai You) writes:
>In article <Bw2x0D.F3n@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> JDW5139@TAMXRD.TAMU.EDU writes:
>>> From:       Chunde Shi <cshi@CS.ULOWELL.EDU>
>>> Subject:    China Bank
>>
>>> Before You starting to trash the country, PRC which happened to my country,
>>> make sure who, China Bank, or your master US' bank is lying. It only
>>> reveals your slave metality that your jump gun that China Bank is lying.
>>> Event China Bank is lying, is it China Bank policy to do the lying or
>>> some crook in the Bank did it?
>
>   The bottom line is that I have to think many times for many days about the
>service in China Bank before sending home some $$.  China Bank failed to
>establish a good reputation among CSS. 
>
>    Can we trust China Bank? (Cliton)
>    Can we trust the phone operator?
>    Can we trust ...
>     ...
>
>Z. You

Come on! for $20? There are many possibilities what really happened:
  1. U.S. banks (or unauthorized employee(s)) swallowed it;
  2. China Bank(or unauthorized employee(s)) sawllowed it;
  3. "Rightful" for  the trasaction and open an account in China Bank
You may well spend %5 to open a account in U.S., how much for it in China
bank?
how about the long distance monetary transaction, considerr the security
insurance? I am tied of this! Big deal out of $20!


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuhe Liu <liu@ATMOS.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Don't forget the purpose of s1216
Reply-To: Yuhe Liu <liu@ATMOS.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:18:07 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Congratulations! At this special time, let's don't forget the purpose
of S1216: HUMAN RIGHTS IN CHINA. If we forget it, S1216 is just
nothing but a little bit Green. Please, my brothers and sisters, don't
forget CHINA and her people.

Yuhe Liu
University of Maryland
at College Park

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu Fri Oct  9 15:17:19 1992
> From: UFDZ%UFPINE.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
> Subject:      IFCSS,CCSA,everyone,
>               let us continue to fight for human right of China!
> Status: RO

IFCSS,CCSA and everyone, after S1216 has been signed to law, please do remember
Wei jingsheng, Wang Juntao, Chen Ziming, Shen Tong, and many who are suffering
for the future protection of human right in China. We can not stop here, we must
fight for the freedom of above people and all political prisoners in China. let
together work on rescueing Shen Tong, and those who were arrested by related to
Shen Tong, and all political prisoneres, until one day, the human right of
everyone will be really protected by the law of china.
        IFCSS,CCSA, everyone, together, work on improving the human right of
China.
                                                        Dawei Zhou,Florida
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xpeng@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Ng's attack on Mr. Shen Tong
Reply-To: xpeng@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:53:58 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

I come from China, I know somthing about Shen Tong and I also know some people
from AHKCUS.  It wouldn't be fair to disscuss Shen Tong's motivation of coming
back to China.  Like Mr. DW Zhou pointed out that Shen Tong could not answer
any accusation.  However, Mr. Ng's article is not an attack on Shen Tong.  He
is giving his side of story about Shen Tong.  He also provides some information
on the consquence of Shen Tong's arrest.  Wether Shen Tong is reponsible for
the consquence should not be a topic before he get his freedom back.  Don't
blame a victim.  But we must learn lessons from our actions and our mistakes,
if there are any.  We should pay more attention to those ordinary people who
were disapeared or arrested which is related to Shen Tong's arrest.  In this
aspect,  AHKCUS has been doing an excellent job.  I sincerely wish that IFCSS
can coorperate with AHKCUS on this matter.

Frankly, AHKCUS has been fighting very hard with Chinese Government on the
subject of human rights, in some sense, harder than many CSS from China.  So
does Shen Tong.  He spent enormous time and energy in participating and
organizing activities to promote human rights and democracy in China.

Doers will make mistakes; doers will pay price, sometimes very heavy, for their
actions.  When the price is the suffering of other people we heve to take it
very seriously.  If it already happened we have to rethink it thoroughly to
avoid it happen again.  It is more important to learn something instead of
blaming somebody (if he/she is innocent or unaware about the consquence of
an improper action).

I also knew a member of Taiwan Democratic Progressive Party.  He told me the
story of the establishment of DPP in Taiwan.  They prepared several groups of
people.  If the first group of people had been arrested after the announcement
of establishment of DPP in Twiwan the second group would have come back from
US to do the same.  Fortunately, they successed without the prepared sacrifice.

The freedom will not come as a gift from a totalitarian government as some
"thinkers" suggested.

Generous and understanding are very important for the people who work for
the same goals.

X.Peng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:04:47 EDT
From: <JXL124@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: IFCSS HQ NR-4053: Campaign Pressure should be Sustained

I think we are ready to act.  But we also rely on HQ's instructions to act
properly.  Therefore, the HQ's decisions are very influencial.  I wish that at
this critical moment, the HQ does not make any error in choosing the right and
consistant strategies.  I think that it very important.
__________________________________________________________________
J.Luo  Penn.State

-Those who pretend to know everything are an annoyance to us who do .
____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china