HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:33:52 EST
From:         Argyria Kehagias <AKEHAGIA@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Rape

Ahmed,
  I have a dictionary here. The exact dictionary meaning of rape is
 "rape 1.  a crime of having sexual intercourse wih a woman or girl
forcibly and without her consent.
     salututory rape is the crime of having sexual intercourse with a gilr belo
w the age of consent
       2. the act of seizing and carrying away by force
       3. the plundering of violent destruction as in warfare

 Raped.  1. to commit rape on a woman or girl: ravish: violate
         2. to seize and carry away by force
         3. to plunder or destroy as in warfare.

         Ahmed, in America rape does not only apply to women. Men are raped too
 When an adult person, molests a child, or a person under age. That is
called rape. Any sexual action without consent of both partners is called
rape.   Rape is anything but pleasent. People do not go out and asked to
be raped. In the united states about 75% of women have been raped or
sexually molested in thier life time. I think about 45% of all men. I might
be wrong on the statistics. If I am someone please correct me. These
are only the percentages for people that have reported it.
          Sometimes people that are raped are made to feel that it is their
fault. Well it isnt. They are asked questions like what did you do to make
him do this to you? Why didnt you do this why didnt you do that? People
that are raped and sexually molested need help. THey cant overcome what
has happened to them by themselves. Sometimes it takes years for a person
to even talk about it.
        People that have been raped or molested are not alone. It has
happened to many. And it is not thier fault.  I really think it is a shame.
                            Argyria
From: x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: RE: Women can't lead
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:12:34 GMT
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Brian...
 Woman are very intellegent......as seen they have served in science and all
other field.....ex.Marie Curie..
Ahmed
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: RE:New list EVANGE-L
Date: 6 Nov 1992 22:37:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, chowning@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU (Richard Chowning) says:

>It is only we Westerners who would dare to separate religion from worldview.
>When we do that, we show that we understand very little about religion.  It
It also shows that we, or a lot of us, try to analyze things empiricly much
to often.  Only in a Western Philosophy class will you get a final exam
question like "why can't God be explained in rational terms"?  In other parts
of the world,  I doubt that the question could even be asked.

>>Chelagoi, I want discussion too, but if it turns into something
>>else, this is one Christian who's going to keep her mouth shut and get out.
>>I've had to act as fire extinguisher once too often lately.  I'm burned out.
>
>Yes, me too.  When things get ugly dialogue ceases.  And, there is no use
>chiming in.  I use my delete key... when things in out of control.. However,
>I stick around.  Threads change.
I used to do that, but I've hit my gag limit.  One more I'l spew, and I can
guarentee no one reading this list when it happens will like it.

>
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Another new subscriber: Role of the United Nations
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:24:40 GMT
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The United Nations....

It is primarily an arm of the United States Government.... Its criteria
is outdated ...essentially, no action can be taken by the United
Nations against, the U.S., Britain, France, China or the former USSR...
It was formed when these countries were considered militiary super powers
who were also economic superpowers... and they were assumed to balance each
other..... THEY DO NOT.... Right now, they serve to convince the American
people that they have moral authority to militiarily intervene where
they choose... None of the major 5 dares to oppose the U.S. and veto any
action...and only China dares to abstain on occassion...

A future World Government...... The U.S. already is a benevolent dictator
to a majority of the world with occassional hassles (Iran, Iraq) and some
of their states occassionally squable (Israel, Palestine).  We have the
neglected ghettoes (Africa, Bangladesh etc.) but nobody really threatening
the U.S..... We choose to interfere (Kuwait) when problems arise in
some parts of our kingdom and ignore most others (Somalia, Bosnia)...Ofcourse
our world gov't is sometimes guilty of nepotism (we throw deals to the
British) and sometimes we worry about a coup (EEC, Japan) but we do have
their numbers and would never allow them to really threaten our rule....

A World Government will be a dictatorship (The major corporations are the
ruling party) disguised as a democracy.... IS IT NOT ALREADY?.... The
U.S. is like the Beverley Hills and Africa like Watts to California....

Zahir
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Dogmas Iron Cage
Date: 6 Nov 1992 22:12:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE ("") says:

>Hi People,
>I came across a lovely one recently. Brendan Behan, an Irish playwright who
> spent much of his early life in prison, once described his religion on a census
>form as 'daylight atheist'. In other words I'm an atheist when things are going
> well for me but look to some God or other to get me out of trouble!
>
>Reminds me of someone I know very well!
They used to call that "foxhole Christianity" if it applied to someone who
considered him/herself a nominal one.  I like "daylight atheist" better,
though.:-)  Then there are what I call "Chrisis Christians" - they consider
themselves Christian, but don't do anything about it or with it until there's
trouble.  It's a pretty common response, really.  

>
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Dogma's Iron Cage
Date: 7 Nov 1992 21:58:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: xcult-l@psuvm.psu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU ("KRISTA L. BENNETT") says:

>Ruth:
>     You seem to equate religious martyrdom with earning "brownie points"
>to get into "Heaven". I see it as something different. I was always under
>the impression that religious martyrdom was more like overkill--spending
I heard that!:-)  Overkill is definitely not the way to go.  Heck, even the
terminal Bible-thumpers have to admit that "all things in moderation" is a
valid concept, and found in the Bible itself several times over.

>wasting their time, but, for example, I grew up in Salt Lake City and
>ran into a lot of people that ONLY worked toward this goal of Heaven--my
I'd say poor things, but chances are they didn't feel that way.

>that all religious people are wasting their time, just that it is
>difficult to reach with all one's might to an uncertain goal. Those
Darned straight, but then nothing really worth doing is ever easy.
Just IMAO, of course.:-)

>Furthermore, not all of us non-believers go around doing "foolish
>things" like sleeping around or taking drugs... That is a VERY DANGEROUS
>assumption, which I find that I run into time and time again. Would you be
>surprised to find that most of the Agnostics and Athiests I know have
>moral codes that don't differ in any significant way from your "Christian"
>ones???? I don't do drugs, and am very much in favor of long-term,
I wouldn't be surprised in the least.  I would say that your route is 
harder than mine, though.  The basic Christian moral code is very similar
to other ones, and most agree that the behaviour I was referring to is
idiotic at best, and suicidal at worst.  

>"foolish things" than anyone else, because if it was, you
>are bound to find that it is very wrong. Be careful about attaching
>a stigma to those who don't fit into the typical "Judeo-Christian"
>mold for society. There are some of us out here who are good
>people nonetheless.
>-----Krista
This is the second time in the past few days, well third actually, that
someone's said that.  You've been the most polite about it, and actually
gave me the benefit of the doubt.  Thank you.  Most people, when they hear
I actually believe this stuff, try to throw me in the "religious right,
braindead Bible-brainwashed Baptist" box.  Then they get all upset when I
refuse to play along.:-)


-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:23:00 EDT
From:         "ISTA ISTA ISHATARRO MUNDI" <RAFTER@UTKVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Women can't lead

That's right:

Unless we let them, women can't lead. Is it any wonder most women haven't led,
considering that we haven't offered them the respect, confidence, and trust
that a leader must have?

Let's get over claiming that women are passive, weak, receptive, indecisive,
etc -- who can deny that women are just as intelligent and capable of
leadership as men? And after all, what has the exclusive leaderhsip of men over
the millenia gotten us? Look at history like an election -- if men were running
for re-election to lead the world, would we get a second term? Let's examine
our record. What kind of speech would the prototypical man make...

"People of the world... we, the noble, strong, and ever superior men of the
planet ask for your vote. For as long as mind can remember, we have led this
fine planet ever forward on the long trek to civilization... Remember, it was
a man who invented gunpowder, a man who perfected dynamite, a man who crafted
that miracle of modern technology, the nuclear bomb... a man who first
colonized, men who fought the wars, men who spent your lives and money on noble
causes. We the white men have justly suppressed all variant cultures, races,
ethnicities, religions, beliefs, and rituals. We the white men have crafted a
socially fair order where the naturally gifted (such as ourselves) hold
positions of power. We the men have insured the obedience of women. We the men
have sped earth forward on her venerable drive to conspicuos consumption,
wholesale exploitation, and blood-soaked persecution. We have proven ourselves
to you: we have battled back all opposition and demonstrated our ability to
lead by torturing, raping, molesting, killing, beating, flogging, maiming,
hacking, chopping, beheading, and mutilating all who oppose us. We protect your
rights, (or rather ours) whatever the cost in human dignity and life -- we have
not shied from our divinely ordained goal to dominate the earth. No. We rose to
the occasion, and were not afraid to impose our rule by means of swords,
spears, canon, and bombs. We did not back away from these noble goals, even if
they involved bloody massacres of children. Please vote for us, the noble
stewards of earth and saviors of humanity."

Naturally the men would probably win this election, since the women couldn't
vote.

Haven't men had chance enough to lead? How could women do any worse?

Brian
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:41:14 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: rape

Alcino,

The reason the U.S. never produced a Pele or a Zico is because soccer
is not a popular sport in the U.S.....it comes somewhere behind Basketball,
American football, baseball, Ice hockey, tennis, and so on....

You have to compare in things that both countries participate in...

The reason I say that cultures where families are close and decision making
takes place within entire families or atleast family wishes are important
results in safe choices....  Families encourage decisions and put pressure
on children to make choices where the chances of success are great....

In America, people make their own choices independent of family.... I am talking
about cultural Americans (Americans born children of a lot of ethnic groups are
   not cultural
Americans)....  So, the drop out rate in colleges are higher, the choice of
majors is more varied...some devote their entire time pursuing a goal of becomin
   g
a professional athlete and some just want to travel or work....

There are many American born children of people of your culture and
those of Asian and Middle Eastern cultures.... again because of their
family system, their method of decisiomaking and so on, it is unlikely
that you will see them represented in the wide variety of activities
that cultural Americans embark on.....  They may be fewer economic
failures, fewer drug addiction or crime rates...but there are also fewer
great athletes or inventors or unusual careers....

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:01:58 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: open

Ahmed,

There you go again.... why does it bother you so much if someone eats
"pigs shit"?  or if they choose to be prostitutes?  You don't have
to do it and that's all that matters...

zahir
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:34:28 -0700
From:         4FMH011@MC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: woman as president

I'm sorry ZAHIR, but if you know Islam real well then you would know what
I'm talking about. Also I mean by veil is the cloth that Muslim Women cover
their head with.

What is the meaning of ISLAM?

Alan
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:49:52 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

I like Alcino's notion of lawyers on both sides of a criminal issue being
drawn from a single pool. Would this eliminate the problems Zahir sees
with both differential access to resources and different abilities to convince[
or as he would have it, manipulate] the jury.

As for the suggestion thatwe are saying the same thing, that could not be
further from the truth.


Dougl           *
The          .
Southern      *   *
Cross           *
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:02:23 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Emmy,

I heard about that case...the rapist offered a condom....  I have long
mainatined that our Justice system is very flawed and as long as so
called "lay" juries are involved and defense lawyers can manipulate
them, such cases occur and occur often... muggers have sued and won
over their victims fighting back ....I was once with a doctor and he was
furious that I pointed out to people at an accident that he was a doctor and
to let him help the injured...he said its too risky to help....

However, the system of justice is really set up (like most things with an
appearance of fairness) to help the rich, the white collared white males,
white females, assorted minorities, the gays, the black females and at the
bottom, the black male.... sort of that order....  Its no contest when
an attorney form Harvard law school at over $1000 per hour with a client
who can afford so called "experts" to testify on behalf of their client
takes on a poor assistant DA who earns $30,000 a month...

zahir
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:26:03 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Canned Robots

Emmy,

Syringes do not qualify as a weapon...even if used as such on occassion..
they had another purpose besides taking of a life.....  weapons such
as handguns, automatic weapons, atomic weapons and so on.....weapons built
in today's world...the technology, factory, materials and so on do come
to the revolutionaries and the "fundamentalists" from somewhere...mostly
the west....  One good thing about their culture and way of life is that it is
inacapable of developing the technology and the factories to build any
nuclear weapons..... without the help of the west....our greed is far greater
and the color green will get us to sell to anyone....

Zahir
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:17:26 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Douglas,

The reason I state that juries with some level of competence in the
issues involved are less likely to base their decision on hype and
more likely to base it on their knowledge and the evidence....

Stands to reason in most anything else we seek a finding for...be it
a decision to buy a used car we are uncertain about (we take it to a
mechanic) or conflicting opinion by two surgeons.....

I am not calling for "professional juries" but am certainly against
the current concept.... find the least knowledgeable and let the
best sales presentation win, not by the evidence, but by the manner
of presentation....

The other issue in a heterogeneous society is to attempt to find a jury,
in cases like the Mike Tyson case, where a jury of "peers" is truly that
interms of race and culture and upbringing and so on...  That is, a crime
or rap should have both men and women on it, a crime where the victim is black,
the accused is black and the witnesses are mostly black should have atleast
a majority of Blacks on the jury.....

zahir
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: rape
Date: 13 Nov 1992 23:04:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, CONSTANT@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU ("Janet C. Constantinides") says:

>In response to Zahir's assertion that people from cultures with closely
>knit families tend not to become famous athletes:
>Then how do you explain the large number of Puerto Ricans and Costa
>Ricans, etc., in American baseball?
>
Janet, in a word - money.  Baseball is popular in those places, and there
are many good athletes.  So.....the recruiters go to those places, or find
the talented kids here in the US, and offer them contracts.  If there were
a lot of good baseball players in Brazil, chances are there would be a lot
of Brazilians in US Baseball too.  The players take the contracts, which are
worth a lot of money, in order to send some of that money home to their
families.  That's the way I heard it, anyway, over years of listening to
baseball announcers.:-)

It's a good thing those guys can call a ball game, because their brains 
sometimes leave a bit to be desired.:-)

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:53:20 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Prostitutes and Self Respect

Ahmed:

A question?

Is prostitution always demeaning to self respect?

I ask this as an anthropologist who has done extensive field research
among male and female prostitutes in Toronto Canada. The issue of self
respect is very important to many of my informants and they derive
self esteem and a sense of worthiness from their life style andf
'career' in spite of the conventional wisdom that tells them what
they do is by definition, demeaning.

The same may also be said about 'exotic' dancers, who are often
characterised as lacking in self esteem but this is an exogenous
definition based on moral or social assumptions which may not work here.

I am curious why you equate 'sex for hire' with degradation?

Douglass
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 22:59:53 GMT
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From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Tolerance (& Emmy's kindness)

Hello Everyone:
Is it just me or are any of you others  been     experiencing all of your mail
to xcult-l returned to you.  Please let me know.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:40:27 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

What i am told in stories distibuted on my campus by various oraganiztion
is that....majority of rape occurs when couples go from party and the
literally do everything but one..and the girl don't want to have sex..
but it happens..and its a rape...I don't understand one thing that the
couple has done all thing and at end the answer is no...
Ahmed
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:41:00 EDT
From:         "ISTA ISTA ISHATARRO MUNDI" <RAFTER@UTKVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Guns and syringes

zahir,

The question of whether to sell weapons is entirely unrelated to the issur of
personal responsibility. I guess if I strangled someone I could handily blame
God for giving me the arms?

brian
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