HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Sebastian Theriault)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: TeX and C (was: you know when you're hacking too long when...)
Date: 29 Aug 92 17:05:22 GMT
Reply-To: jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Sebastian Theriault)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <marc.715098772@vieta.math.uni-sb.de> marc@vieta.math.uni-sb.de (Marc Conrad) writes:
>That reminds me to a problem, I had, when I wrote a TeX-text, which should 
>contain a compileable C-Programm (let's call it foo.c)
>My first try was: 
>\begin{verbatim}
>\input{foo.S}
>\end{verbatim}
>Try it, and you will see, that it don't work :-).
>My solution was then to write \begin{verbatim} and \end{verbatim} 
>in the file foo.c itself. But it's not a good solution, because then 
>compilation of foo fails....
>Any ideas ?

How about:

LaTeX part:
-------------

\noindent
{\tt
\input{foo.S}
}                    

foo.S:
-----
/* } \begin{verbatim} 
  A Comment 
*/ 
  [code goes here...]
/*
  End. \end{verbatim}
*/

Ok, so the printed program is not exactly what is in foo.S, but it's
only commented stuff anyways.

--
Jean-Sebastien Theriault               "This is my signature quote."
jt@dcs.ed.ac.uk                                            -me
From: ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Flash pix
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:57:03 GMT

iisakkil@vipunen.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) writes:
> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab) writes:
> 
> >I've seen EPROMs erased, they use UV light and set the timer for 15 minutes.
> 
> I don't believe in erasing EPROMs by flash lights either, but just
> crashing the computer is much easier. The sense amplifiers in memory
> ICs are photosensitive, and a flash light contains more than enough of
> photic energy to cause read errors at the time of flash.

You can apparently make a rudimentary TV camera by (carefully!) removing
the top from a DRAM chip and putting a lens in front of it.  Only a
bistable picture but good enough for some applications.  (No I've never
done it but I've read at least one magazine article and I don't think it
was April.)

Sam
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles)
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:12:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.233450.28371@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug31.225912.29334@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles) writes:
|>>
|>>As far as I remember, my original ranting was more against using assembler
|>>exclusively than the lack of structured design/CASE/etc. - the person who
|>>got me flaming was equating incompetence in programming with not using
|>>assembler, and was implying that anybody who doesn't program in assembler
|>>is an over-priced, under-skilled fraud.  Needless to say, I took exception
|>>to this....
|>
|>You should take exception to it, but not from me.  We were referring to an
|>unfortunate fact of the industry: that there is a more than insignificent
|>portion of it populated by people who can barely grasp the hll they use
|>and abuse.  Someone went further to claim they are largely writers of
|>undocumented code.  Someone else went further to say they were starving
|>grad students earning money to eat off of.  My point was that learning
|>assembler can only enhance their skills, and no one can claim that
|>learning it detracts from their performance.  As to over-priced or
|>under-skilled people, well, you get some of that everywhere, not just
|>programming :-).

Hey - I think I agree with you!  There must be something wrong with me
this morning :-)  To keep my agreement to the bare bones (to avoid future
flames), I agree that anybody who is programming in an hll should really
understand assembler - I know that I wouldn't recommend that my company
hire _anybody_ who didn't understand assembler and/or the underlying
model of some cpu (any cpu - I don't think it really matters, though people
should have a nodding acquaintence with concepts like RISC v. CISC).

Lezz "I'm having a good morning so far..." Giles

PS Isn't it fun making statements and then standing back and watching the
flames :-)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:35:34 GMT

In article <id.J2JS.8CD@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>I said someone who says he's an assembly (or any other specific language)
>programmer is a poor sort of programmer.
>
>Jerry objected that programmers don't get to choose what languages they're
>exposed to.
>
>I pointed out that for a few hundred dollars you could buy a personal computer
>and dozens of language implementations...
>In article <id._VFS.0AK@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> If you want to continue to eat regularly, it's worthwhile spending a little
>> of your own money on a personal computer that'll expand your horizons.
>
>In article <1992Aug20.000833.14289@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>> My first job in the business expanded my horizons plenty.
>
>And goes on to describe how he learned dozens of languages while on the job,
>out of necessity...
>
>> Sure, I can do anything I want on my home system.  Maybe, some day, I'll
>> write The Great American Program (in The Great American HLL, which I'll
>> also write) and retire.  Until then, the people who write my paycheck get
>> to call the tune.
>
>Jerry, I honestly have no idea what I've said that you're objecting to. Every
>thing you've said simply reinforces my point: a programmer who doesn't know
>a variety of languages, and who can't learn new ones quickly, is a poor sort
>of programmer indeed. Whether he's an "assembly programmer", a "C programmer",
>a "COBOL programmer", or whatever.
>
>BECAUSE the people who pay the piper call the tune.
>
>Are we in violent agreement, or am I missing something subtle here?

I certainly don't have any disagreement with this statement, except for:

The people who pay the piper may be being manipulated by people with their
own agendas.  The wrong language may be being forced onto the job specification
to the point of excluding legitimate alternatives.  I have seen this over the
years done as a sleazy attempt to guarantee that contracts can only be
fulfilled by certain "blessed" individuals/companies in certain specific
situations that were clearly unethical, but it happens.

cjl
From: witczak@frith.egr.msu.edu (Mark Witczak)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Apple ///
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:39:48 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <seaxF3i00iUxA4eQ0v@andrew.cmu.edu>, Samuel Roy Helwig <sh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> 
|>     Hello,
|> 
|>     Anyone on here still have an Apple ///??
|>     If you have one (or... horrors... still use one :-)), please mail me.


If you're having problems with the machine hiccuping (periodic software glitches),
raise the machine about a foot off the floor and drop it. Repeat if necessary.

These are words straight from APPLE(tm).  It seems that the machine that plugged
in the IC's had a problem with punching them down hard enough to be properly
seated. 

I guess this is a cheaper soloution than a recall.

mark
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:47:58 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)

In article <id.HLVS.5DJ@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.162630.23913@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>> A very popular and recent piece of software is DR-DOS Version 6, which 
>> is written in mostly assembler and runs on all of these, picking up options
>> along the way in a seamless manner where applicable.
>
>An operating system of that level (basicaly file system and monitor) is
>inherently non-portable, so who cares?

And don't forget here that:

DR-DOS = Concurrent CPM/86

And that it blows away while running some MSDOS applications. 

>> Within the world of Kermit, we have frustrating cases of even small programs
>> that need worlds of conditionals to satisfy the bizarre variations floating
>> around the industry.
>
>Within the world of Kermit the latest release I've tried still runs on Xenix-
>286 (System III Xenix, not SCO), System V on the 386, System V on the 68000,
>and on the Sparc. I would take some convincing that this would be possible
>in any other language that's reasonably widely available, except maybe Fortran.

Kermit runs on everything.

-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	unixland!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ISO date format
Date: 27 Aug 1992 02:13:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> What I like about yy mm dd is that it fits the standard idea in
> numbering systems that the rightmost digit changes fastest.  Putting
> yy first alerts the reader to the format.

This year.  And for seven more.  But after that ...
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: SAGE
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:14:35 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <1992Aug26.034217.24819@u.washington.edu>
fetrow@biostat.washington.edu (David Fetrow) writes:

>In article <1992Aug25.203217.12677@sctc.com> smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
>writes:
>>dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin)  writes:
>>
>>>Some of the blinken-lights from SAGE appeared in the submarine in Voyage
>>>to the Bottom of the Sea.
>>
>
> ..and Lost in Space..and Time Tunnel....

...not to mention Woody Allen's "Sleeper".

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"Woof!  Woof!  Woof!  Woof!  Hello, I'm Rags."
From: rhutchin@pilot.njin.net (Roland Hutchinson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Keywords: hacking
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:00:33 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In <BtI1s9.M4J@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:

>. . . instead of phoning someone local (same company, same city) you
>send email even when you know they have voicemail/answering machine.
>-- 

Heck, that precisely describes how my spouse and I communicate on most
weekdays. 
-- 
Roland Hutchinson                       Visiting Specialist/Early Music
 Internet: rhutchin@pilot.njin.net      Department of Music
 Bitnet: rhutchin@NJIN                  Montclair State College
                                        Upper Montclair, NJ 07043
From: 9125113g@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Mitch Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: CyC project
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:51:19 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University

In article <1992Sep1.044914.15848@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>"What is the critical difference between you and white noise?"
>
>"Is there a reason why I shouldn't erase all your knowledge rules?"
>-- 
>Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
>Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
>dafuller@sequent.com

"I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."

Mitch.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban
From: keithd@bigguy.timeplex.com (Keith Dickinson)
Subject: Re: flash pictures of the sunset
Organization: Ascom Timeplex Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:58:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.192737.21279@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>}... Why is it
>}when the airplane shakes a bit and the pilot announces that we're flying
>}through some turbulence that people look out the window?  Do they
>}expect to see speed bumps or something?
>
>No, no, no.  We're checking the wings for loose rivets. (-:

Actualy on 474's and the such I like to sit a couple of rows behind the wing
so I can watch it flap. 

Who said that Boing never built a Ornathoptor(?)!

L8r G8r
 Keith
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: Better dead than IBM
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:27:49 GMT

In article <fstuart.920827112330@lab16.eng.auburn.edu>, fstuart@eng.auburn.edu (Frank Stuart) writes:
> What does IBM *really* stand for?  Let me know if you know the answer and
> I'll post a summary in a week or two.
> 
> To get the ball rolling, here are some suggestions from the Jargon File:
> 
>    Inferior But Marketable
>    It's Better Manually
>    Insidious Black Magic
>    It's Been Malfunctioning
>    Incontinent Bowel Movement
>    International Business Machines
> 

ou've obviously never supplied them with money (For minimal return) :

	I've Been Mugged
	^    ^    ^

...BRU
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.computers
From: fjh@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: Re: Good source code to read?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:06:48 GMT

john@mullet.gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes:

>fjh@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON) writes:
>
>>That depends on how you write it.
>>A simple pi program WILL halt eventually, with the message "Out of memory".
>>A more resiliant pi program will pause occaisionally with messages like
>>"insert next floppy disk", or "insert previous floppy disk".
>>So long as you don't mind switching the floppies when requested,
>>and even going down the street for a new box of disks occaisionally,
>>then such a program will neither halt nor loop.
>
>Until you have converted all of the particles in the universe into floppies,
>and find you still need 'just one more'.

This presumes that the number of possible particles in the universe is finite.
(A strong likelyhood, but by no means a certainty)

>For the humour impaired: Insert a :-) after every third word
Ditto :-)

-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature VIRUS is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature VIRUS is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Film Newbies  (was Re: "We don't need no steenking badges...")
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:02:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.180643.1522@twg.com> nolan@twg.com writes:
>
>In article <BtAt3w.FHE@unx.sas.com>, sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com (Bruce Tindall) writes:
>
>|>Odd that with all this discussion of Blazing Saddles, no one has
>|>commented on the name of the gubernatorial character played by 
>|>Mel Brooks, at whose eponymous freeway toll booth Slim Pickens and
>|>his evil army were delayed while searching for exact change.  I'll
>|>let somebody else do the honors; all I can say is, it's a gas!
>
>And the District Attorney was Hedly Lamar ("That's Hedly, you moron!")

And Howard Johnson had *one* flavor :-).

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Good source code to read?
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:34:24 GMT
 er0INNen4@rodan.UU.NET> <STEVEV.92Aug24235052@miser.uoregon.edu><1992Aug25.130343.18030@geovision.gvc.com>
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: pt@geovision.gvc.com's message of Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:03:43 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:03:43 GMT, pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) said:

> I'm not a computer science theoretician, just a programmer, but it seems to
> me that many of you are missing a very important point.

> People seem to be just taking it for granted that this business of comparing
> the machine state of machines of speed X and speed X/2 will catch a loop
> eventually, and thereby solve the halting problem.

> The problem is that the halting problem, as far as I understand it, is not
> necessarily about loops.  If I write a program that calculates digits of pi,
> for instance, this program will never halt, but it will also never loop.

But it will also require unlimited memory to store the result. On a
machine with finite memory, finite size registers, and finite input,
any time the machine is in the same state, it will behave the same.
Since there are a finite number of states, it must either halt before
going through all of them, or go through the same state twice. If it
goes through the same state twice, it must be looping.

However, as pointed out, even a very small program can take longer
than the estimated age of the universe to check this way, and the
state could be a warehouse full of tapes.

Also input need not be finite (ignoring practical considerations like
the universe possibly coming to an end).
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers killing peo
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:10:22 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> In article <3894.168.uupcb@ssr.com> dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin)  writes:
> >TO> .With a SERIAL port, maybe. But very unlikely. Few printers have
> >  > .the transmit data line hooked up.
> >
> >You run printers with serial interfaces that don't support XON/XOFF
> >interface?  Strange...  Which printers don't support this??
> 
> Unfortunately, most of the IBM-PC world does it this way :-(.  The printer
> usually is ready, and accepts chars spewing out the port at the rate of
> the connection until the buffer gets say, 3/4 full.  At that point, it
> lowers one of the handshakes like CTS which makes the PC end unable to
                                    ^^^
Try DSR.  You wire the RTS line (or whatever the printer uses as a handshake)
to the PeeCee's DSR line.

The brokeness is that the only way to tell if the the other end just wants
to catch up or has disappeared altogether (eg run out of paper, emitted smoke)
is to time out on the handshake.  Sheesh; the accepted way of dealling with
flow control is to listen to the CTS line, leaving the DSR line available to
indicate whether the device at the other end is working.

With modems, PeeCee's mostly get it right (or at least, the comms packages
that tell the BIOS where it can put its braindamage do).  There's nothing 
wrong with the hardware in this respect -- it just does what it's told.

The BIOS knows nothing of XON/XOFF either.  There are shareware/freeware
packages out there which tell the BIOS to eff off and drives the port 
properly.  "DMP" is a good one; also handles spooling to disk etc.

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: trip@cco.caltech.edu (Trip)
Subject: Re: better dead than ibm
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:28:18 GMT

>PG>fstuart@eng.auburn.edu (Frank Stuart) writes:

>>What does IBM *really* stand for?  Let me know if you know the answer and
>>I'll post a summary in a week or two.

It's Boeing's Money. (Apparently Boeing buys enormous numbers of IBM
mainframes; they're IBM's largest single customer or something close.)

Trip				|   Never take a stranger's advice
President, ECNG			|   Never let a friend fool you twice
(trip@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu)	|   Nobody's on nobody's side
				|			-_Chess_
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: iisakkil@vipunen.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila)
Subject: Re: Computer games as marketing gag
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: 29 Aug 92 12:55:38

ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:

>A version of Pakman in which you turn shell and tube heat exchangers (an
>older type not sold by A-L) into plate or spiral heat exchangers.

I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but didn't Ford distribute
a sort of racing game for PCs to advertise their new models a couple
of years back? I've never seen it, though.

I once worked for a company which made mainly taxi (cab for you in the
US) fare meters. One of the early models (sometime in the '70s) had a
front panel which consisted of 6 7-segment digits, a rotary switch and
a push button. There was 4 kbytes of ROM in it, and the guy who wrote
the software still found room for a shoot-em-up game! Nowadays the ROM
is something like 128 kB, and no games, although the hardware platform
would be much better. What a pity.

--
Segmented Memory Helps Structure Software
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:20:12 GMT

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

>In article <1992Aug28.222616.2251@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> lezz@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Lezz Giles) writes:
>>
>>Once again, I don't want to say that assembler is a Bad Thing.  Also
>>notice that I'm not saying anything about ease of programming, speed,
>>or anything else.  I'm just saying that if you program in assembler for
>>an 80386 then your program will run well on an 80386, sub-optimally on
>>an 80486 and not at all on an 80286 (and forget about a 68030).  If you
>
>This is patently wrong.

No, it's quite correct.

>I write for the 8086/8088 model as do most people.
>It runs on 8088, 8086, 80186, 80188, 80286, 80386SX, 80386DX, 80486SX,
>80486DX, 80486DX2, and about 20 non-Intel clones from AMD, NEC, ULSI, TI,
>and a few other cpu clone maker's cpu's.

Yes, but your code will be sub-optimal for all but the 8086/8088.
And as Lezz Giles pointed out, you can forget about the 68030.
(and of course, your code won't work for a Z/80 ;-)

>I can choose to exclude the 8088
>and 8086 with a simple assembler directive, which merely enables extensions
>available in the '286 and up, or I can us the larger models and write for
>protect-mode on either 286 and up or 386 and up as I choose.  There is
>hardly any difference between 386 and 486 save speed and a few instructions
>(very few) that were added to the '486.  There is virtually no software
>significence to the 486 over the 386, and for all indications, as posted on
>this newsgroup, the '586 won't change this either.

It's not just a matter of "a simple assembler directive" - to take full
advantage of a better chip may require rewriting much of your code.
Assembly language programmers must choose between 8086, 80286, 80386,
and i486 at the time of writing, whereas HLL programmers choose at
compilation time. This can be a significant advantage.
For HLLs, it *is* just a matter of a simple compiler option.

-- 
Fergus Henderson             fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU      
This .signature virus is a self-referential statement that is true - but 
you will only be able to consistently believe it if you copy it to your own
.signature file!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc