From: S.Hill@newcastle.ac.uk (Stuart Hill)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: A man shall be judged by the company he keeps
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:41:54 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

news@fedfil.UUCP (news) writes:



>They say a man is judged by the company he keeps, and I use the word
>"man" in the old-fashioned, non-politically-correct manner here so as to
>include Sue Bishop and possibly even her gravitationally challenged
>horse in the discussion.

>Bishop and Hyde and a few others continue to claim that when history and
>theory (her ice-core interpretations) conflict, you toss the history and
>not the theory, and I have in mind to show them the company in which
>they place themselves in so doing.

>If you really want to adopt the view that theory overrides history, then
>you don't need to go back to 1500 BC for a starting point;  you can
>start 50 years ago or thereabouts.

>Consider the company which Bishop and Hyde keep in this theory overrides
>history game.

>Consider the case of Ralph Winston, who typically posts on the
>talk.politics group, and mostly posts articles to the effect that the
>halocaust of WWII is a bogus notion and never really took place:

>>    Another interesting witness for the prosecution was Dennis
>>  Urstein, an "eyewitness" with the "positive proof."  He claimed he saw
>>  bodies gassed with Zyklon B hauled out of the "gas chamber."  He
>>  described the bodies as being "greyish-greenish" in color.  Persons who
>>  have died from Zyklon B poisoning would turn a bright cherry red.
> 
>>    In assisting with the disposal of bodies in the gas chamber it
>>  seems that Urstein wore no protective clothing.  If this was the case
>>  he would have died too.  Urstein also claimed with absolute certainty
>>  that 154 of his family died in the Holocaust but he had the greatest of
>>  difficuly naming even 20 of them.  Of the 20 that he said died at the
>>  hands of the Nazis, one of these actually died in the U.S. in the late
>>  1970's.
> 
>>    Henry Leader was another "eyewitness" who couldn't get the body
>>  color of the supposed Zyklon B gas victims correct.  He didn't even
>>  agree with Urstein's gray-green color.  Leader came up with a new one:
>>  blue.

>or

>>   The results published in the _Leuchter Report_ are the important
>>  thing. Categorically, none of the facilities examined at Auschwitz,
>>  Birkenau or Lublin could have supported, or in fact did suport,
>>  multiple executions utilizing hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide or any
>>  other allegedly or factually lethal gas. Based upon very generous
>>  maximum usage rates for all the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693
>>  persons per week, and assuming these facilities could support gas


>I've always assumed that the halocaust was real enough simply based on the
>films taken by American soldiers entering the camps at the close of
>WWII, and by the further consideration that Hitler's declaration of war
>against the US could only have been a kind of a declaration of intent to
>commit suicide, which would logically seem to include a plan to dispose
>of any internal group which Hitler might regard as a fifth column.

>Silly me.


>Ted Holden
>HTE


Why do flame wars always culminate in someone comparing someone else to 
fascists? I have seen nothing in the posts of Sue Bishop and others to warrant
this sort of attack. Rather they have shown commendable self restraint in
the face of previous insults. Does Ted really expect to retain any credibility
with t.o. readers with this sort of thing? Not that regular readers will be
surprised that Ted's insults are now as crass and hysterical as his ideas
are bizarre.


Stuart Hill 

Department of Physics
University of Newcastle
Newcastle
England

S.Hill@uk.ac.ncl

`I have an open mind, not an open dustbin.'








>-- 
 Edmund : 'Flash! Where have you been?'
 Flash  : 'Where HAVEN'T I been ! WOOF!'
Newsgroups: talk.origins