HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: news from colorado
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:42:45 GMT

I just heard on the news last night that in a poll asking about
amendment 2 here (that's the anti-gay one), the response was:

Against 56%
For     38%

Hooray!!! 

Of course it's way too early to celebrate, yet. CFV is heavily funded
by the Republikan/Xtian right. EPOC is running grassroots fundraisers,
but the big money difference is scary. The worst-case scenario for me 
is the Clinton campaign really fucking up, with amendment 2 riding in 
on the coattails of George "Family Values" Bush.


Kathy
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay names
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:46:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Xiola Blue

AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:

>  It's all true.  But what does that make "Marky Mark"?

Good to the last drop, of course.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

cruising: vidi, vici, veni.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: Tom's Box of Ahedonia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:53:44 GMT

In <1992Aug16.193801.4950@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
>they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.

Wow.  When I came out I suddenly IM started appearing in my
mail box.  Now I know why!

Tom
;-)
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
S7/2 b+ g l+ y z- n++ o++ x++ a-- u+ v+ j+   "If English was a good enough
PIG8/5    language for the Lord Jesus Christ, then it's good enough for me!"
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Presumption
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:57:27 GMT

In article <4443@news.duke.edu>, John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu writes:
> I agree with Romanovsky and Phillips who I quote here from their song, "Give me
> a homosexual"
> 
> "How straight can they be when they're down on their knees!"

Then you're really no better than the homo-haters who
identify gay people solely on the basis of our sexual
practices.

Here's the thing:  when you use such a restrictive
definition of sexuality, you're effectively closing the
door on a broad range of issues related to identity and
individuality.  You're also painting yourself into a
corner.  If our sexual acts define who we are, then who
are we when we're not being sexual?  Are we gay only
when we have sex, and asexual the rest of the time?  What
about self-identified gay people who are virgins, or who
are celibate?  Are they not gay?

Like Jess, I've been in homosexual relationships with
several straight people (although in my case they were
women), and I feel perfectly comfortable with their straight
identities.  Their overwhelming affectional orientation
was towards men, but through some odd quirk of fate they
found themselves with a woman.  This doesn't make them
lesbians, and it doesn't make them bisexuals.  It makes
them straight women who have had sex with another woman.
Get it?
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:26:43 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Sweet l'il Nelson Minar:

>Nelson, who really needs to practice the bitchy queen thing.

For information on correspondence courses, send a SASE, along with $20
and a lock of pubic hair, to:

Richard W. Johnson
20525 Marianai Ave., M/S 35-G
Cupertino CA 95014

Individualized training is available.  Contact me for more information.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

cruising: vidi, vici, veni.
From: adye@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Alan Dye)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:24:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Where it came from (was Re: Survey)
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: soc.motss


>In article <920818174711_70253.2621_CHC74-1@CompuServe.COM> 
>70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:
>
>When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)

I'll tell you when I get there.  Gotta fax number?

Alan "hypothetical questions annoy me" Dye
___________________________________________________________________________
Alan W. Dye   PHONE: (208) 323-6167        adye@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
                                           71053,1301@compuserve.com
    
Software Applications Specialist           "Cleverness is its own reward."
Hewlett Packard Boise Site Operations  
Information Systems Group                  #include <disclaim.h>

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:57:26 GMT

stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini) wrote: 
->Title says all.
->Speech by Ms. Fisher of the Detroit magnate family scheduled between
->Wilson's and Mrs. Quayle's presentations.
->The New York Times has had several articles explaining Ms. Fischer's
->situation in the past few days.

i hope they really did spell it out: rich white woman with aids.  very
typical, no?  i can just hear it now: "why can't they all be like
me?"

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:54:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.110834.310@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:

>I regret that there are people so incredibly clueless that they could
>possibly have taken your gerbiling post seriously.

Oh?  There are people so incredibly clueless they believe Cramer never
responds with name-calling or insults.  There are people so incredibly
clueless they believe Arthur T. Hu.

Nelson, my dear, I really am shocked at this whole messcapade ... but
Gawd, it sounds *FUNNY*.  I am sorry.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: need good bible arguments AGAINST the anti-gay passages
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: courage and openness
Organization: various and shifting
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:59:42 GMT

as it happens, i know the outline of the peter gomes story, thanks to
warren goldfarb.  my response to david carlton's posting - a response
that was quite mild, expressing only a bit of sadness - arose from
david's having chosen to mention only that gomes is gay.  now steve
has supplied (as i hoped he or warren or david or somebody who's close
to the situation would) the really interesting details, ones worth
hearing, about extraordinary courage and openness on gomes's part, and
about the heartening response of (most of) the harvard community.
thank you, steve.

arnold


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: ending the military ban
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:37:39 GMT

Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com) wrote:
 
> I was a naval officer.   I marched into my commanding officer's office on 
> Dec. 1, 1986, and ended my career with a five-minute confession.  I told
> him I was gay.  I was in love with a guy at the time, and I had to choose.  
> I am a hopeless romantic; so I chose the guy.  Several months later I 
> was ejected (that's "forcibly discharged" for those of you that don't
> understand military doublespeak).
> 
> I know what discrimination is.  I lost a promising naval career and was 
> looking a court martial right in the eye.  Seven years of hard work down
> the drain.  All because the military couldn't handle the fact that I was in 
> love with a man, a man I loved so much that I would have moved heaven
> and earth for.

Truly a powerful, emotional, and convincing story.

What was its effect at your post-discharge press
conference?  

If nothing else, I'm sure it helped to convince 
your fellow gay officers that you were doing your 
part to help lift the military's ban on homosexuals.

--jns
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:14:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug17.131409.9767
Organization: insert anything here

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>I just noticed tonight that International Male is selling Freedom Rings
>>>in their catalog.  
>>	That's all we need - more co-opting of symbols of gay pride, etc.
>>as *fashion statements* and *fashion accessories*...

>Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
>they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.

	Oh... so which is it then - 1) thir market research is clueless
and they don't say they are marketing "symbols of gay pride", 2) we're
so incredibly fashionble that they just *assume* their going with some new
fashion trend not knowing any other meaning, or 3) they don't have the
guts to learn and/or otherwise use the "g" and "l"
words explicitly.

	I don't know which is harder - training them to be more aware
of recognizing our support or training us to notice that they only care
about our $$$.  Granted that is the norm for business, but that doesn't mean
we have to be economic lemmings.

BBC
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Quilt
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:19:22 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
:I should ever find myself in a situation (6 feet under
:or in an urn) where a quilt panel might be a suitable memorial for me,
:I swear to haunt the person who suggested it and all those who worked
:on it, and make for them a living hell for the duration.

You'd better be carefull saying that. A lot of people might start making that
panel, so they can have you around again. I know I would. How bad could your
haunting be anyway, if you had to haunt _all_ of us?


:Especially if it has a teddy-bear sewn on it.

A *BIG* *BURLY* *TEDDYBEAR* . With chaps.

						FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: UNGAY GAY
Date: 10 Aug 92 21:31:25 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<l85t18INN2h2@mizar.usc.edu>

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
) georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
) > My one question now is: what's HWP?  The phrase turns up
) > in a lot of the ads.
)
) Happy When Porked?
) Hot Wax Pig?
) Handy With Pliers?
) Habitually Whining Princess?

Height-Weight Proportionate.  Now I know why there were no ads
that said "no fats."

I was less than delighted to learn that Kretin Klamor had
reposted my article to talk.politics.misc accompanied by one of
his typically twisted misinterpretations.  I suppose that
having Cr*m*r repost one's articles is an honour of sorts, but
it's one I'd cheerfully forgo.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: cut this off
Organization: faggots in mourning
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:25:39 GMT

dear friends: melinda and arne have said what there is to say
to this creature (whose excrescences i have saved as "vile.motss").
please do not respond in postings (what you do in e-mail is none
of my business).  it will feed on words.  let it die.

arnold


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Subject: The Kiss, The Plague, The Fear
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 06:38:01 GMT

The delighful discussion and observations on "The Kiss" has given much
reading pleasure.  All the positive and pleasureable statements about 
kissing and accompanying cuddles receive my heartiest agreement.  Here
at least, is one of the most satisfying and loving interactions 
which, as yet, seems to be among the least dangerous demonstrations of
affection.  This bubble was burst tonight.

In an editorial by Howard Fast, the author and playwright, a dialog is
presented with Dr. Helen Singer Kaplan, head of the Sex Therapy and Education 
Program at the Payne Whitney Clinic of the New York Hospital and 
clinical associate professor of psychiatry at Cornell University 
Medical College.  Dr. Kaplan essentially claims that French kissing is
quite dangerous since "Saliva is an ideal environment for the AIDS 
virus.  In fact, the count is larger in saliva than in the blood of an
HIV positive person."  She goes on to affirm that a deep kiss from an 
infected individual has a good chance of infecting the healthy one.  

This shocked me since I seem to recall that previous work had shown 
that the saliva was a hostile environment for HIV.  This confirmed 
my impression that HIV was a rather fragile virus and thus quite 
susceptible to the enzymes, etc. in saliva.

Dr. Kaplan is further quoted: "You will get denial from every side.  
They will say there are no reliable statistics, no scientific tests.  
They will tell you that doctors disagree.  They will tell you that my 
information is invalid."

This last is most worrisome since it seems like a positioning to avoid
expected attack.   If so, it is rather irresponsible.  It is unclear 
who "they" are.  Further, the good doctor does not seem to offer any 
statistics or tests of her own.  Certainly, denying possible 
criticism in this way is not scientifically responsible.  

The question is worrisome, nevertheless, for it brings at risk what is,
at least for me, one of the greatest pleasures I have.  I am quite 
suspicious of her claims yet I would appreciate being given evidence 
regarding the question.  Is this person a known crank?  What is her 
scientific reputation?  What do we really know about the problem?

Sigh....a kiss is just a kiss....

Just?  Ha!!

Colburn Eigen                    H|u> = E|u>  
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:00:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.170458.28120@tandon.com> tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) writes:
>Just please shoot me if I should ever have to move to these
>'forsaken places, but what with the economy... well, you have
>to do what you have to do:
>
>1) Boise, Idaho (HP's RISC printer controller house)
>2) (Oh) Rochester, Minnesota (IBM's AS/400 design house)
>3) Burlington, Vermont (another IBM RISC house)

Never been to Boise or Rochester, but Burlington ain't too bad.  Kind
of a miniature Madison, Wisconsin.  You are 2 hours from Montreal and
3 hours from Boston by car.  (Montreal has a fantastic gay club
scene.)  

There is a gay bar in Burlington (Pearl's), and three colleges
(including UVM), which make it into a fairly liberal college town.
Bernie Sanders used to be mayor there.  Vermont has a gay-rights law.

Of course the weather is horrible 9 months out of the year, but the
skiing is pretty good.

--John, ex-Vermonter.
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           ||"No need to overheat your rhetoric,
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| Exaggerating items in your pride..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||        -- Mephistopheles, _Faust_
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Request: Info on GLB-filmfestival organizers
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:21:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.!wgy-vk

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Lars from Norway writes...
>>       To those who know me allready, I finally got round to applying
>> for an international posting permit from the university, and got one.
Cool! I'm glad thta you made it...

So, any more recent details on the nature of Queer Marriage in Norway and the
rest of Scandinavia? Who's going to be second after Denmark?


Also, [to other Europena motsseurs] how are the marriage protests in Germany
going?

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"No question in my mind, we've got a large number of gays in military service."
   --Dick Cheney, U.S. Secretary of Defense, in USA TODAY, June 27 1991.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Republican Nat'l Convention Speakers
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:04:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.233603.7363@morrow.stanford.edu> AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:

>  If Kemp *is* gay, wouldn't he have been "outted" by now?  Especially
>  after his 1988 run for the presidency?

Who would have done the outing?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Queer
activists?  I'd think they'd only bother if Kemp acted publicly
homophobic; does he?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: B.S. forms a synapse
Date: 23 Aug 92 02:54:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/
/(rdonahue)
/	[Other attributions not available because B.S. is too lazy
/	 to put them in and/or doesn't care about net.courtesy]

Yeah.  I'm a jerk.  But I still get airheads like you to respond; must
be my winning personality.



(me)
>The drag queens who fought the cops did not see their rights and
>treatment improve because they dressed in drag.  

>They saw their rights and treatment improve because they stood up to the 
>bastards and didn't back down.  You can do that in drag, blue jeans, a
>pin-stripe suit, or stark fucking naked.  The deciding factor wasn't
>the clothing, but the decision to say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not
>going to take it anymore".  As soon as they started doing that, things
>changed.

/(rdonahue)
/	In other words, folks - he just argued himself out:  read his
/e-lips:  the major point for getting your rights is standing up to those
/who oppress you and not who you self-express.

Did you read this before you typed it?  Try saying the last clause out
loud and see if it makes any fucking sense.



(rdonahue)
/	The "force" thing you talk about afterwards is fallacious.

BZZT.  Wrong.  Thanks for playing, though.  Johnny, tell the nice man
what he's won . . .


(rdonahue)
/Rights aren't "bestowed", they are claimed.

Agreed.


(rdonahue)
/We don't "let" the mainstream
/say 'oh --- look at all the *nice* non-threatening faggots --- we think
/we'll let you live...', we say 'We're equal to you and we will be treated
/as such.'

If you weren't such a fucking simpleton you would perceive the difference
between changing the law and changing someone's opinion.  The first is
easy; the second one has to be done one person at a time.  Getting the
rights is (as hard as it seems) going to be a hell of a lot easier than
getting people to change their fundamental opinions about gays.

Did the nondiscrimination laws change attitudes about blacks overnight?
No.  Of course not. Look around you; see if there is still anti-black
prejudice.  You can't legally discriminate anymore, but that hasn't
changed some people's private prejudices.  And it doesn't stop some
people from trying to discriminate.

BTW:  if you knew anything about rights, you would also know that you
can claim to have a right until you are blue in the face.  Until someone
else agrees that you have that right, you really don't have it unless
you can unilaterally enforce your claim.  Go read some political theory
and get back to me.  


(rdonahue)
/	Now go home.

What is it with you net queens?  You don't like someone posting things
that give you heartburn, so you continually tell them to "go home"?  
Ruining your tea party, am I?


(rdonahue)
/  Aren't you afraid of getting too much exposure
/here?

No.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:29:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug16.222950.11829
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug16.203820.13957@unlinfo.unl.edu> cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:
>>what's an expert?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Good Grief.

do you not understand what I'm saying? I'm challenging the notion that
anyone is an "expert" at understanding sexual attraction.

>>I have little control over who I find attractive.
>I believe that it is just this little control over whom, or what, one
>finds attractive that the psychologists throw into the paraphilia bin.

then I certainly have a diverse set of paraphilias. Haven't I posted
something recently describing all of the various people I find
sexually attractive? I really don't see any nifty little classification 
scheme for my various attractions. The only thing I've consistently
required is for the other person to be intellectually engaging.

ObDish: What's there in common between Sim Aberson and Robert Coren?

ObBitch: Colburn, your posts would be a lot more interesting if you
wrote more than you quoted.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 Shame is playback: exposure to disapproval
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:59:13 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
 >Indeed.  And tonight we got to see people say over and over again
 >about how wonderful it was that we got to see the human side of Bush,
 >as if humanity had much to do with the way he were running the
 >country...

Earlier in the day I heard an interview soundbite in which Bush
said that the Democrats claimed to be thinking of the people, but
said they would raise taxes, thereby demonstrating that he cannot
distinguish people from property.  Maybe this explains something. 

 >Speaking of convention stuff, was everybody as thrilled as I was to
 >see Clinton gleefully point out that he had never said that he
 >supported the right of same-sex couples to marry or adopt?

I missed this, but it doesn't surprise me.  Still, I prefer the
influences surrounding Clinton to those surrounding Bush, by a lot.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Arsenio
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:34:54 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson):
> *Some* spellings *must* be corrected:

woops!  dear me, i did mean the furry little animal. :-)

-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: futor@llnl.gov ( packrat extraordinaire )
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: storage media ( was:  Re: for donald/lovegod )
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:40:44 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab.
Originator: futor@diego.llnl.gov


 amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>
>one of the sayings of elizabeth d. zwicky:
>  disk is not a storage medium; tape is.

Demonstrating that the Goddess Herself can be as misguided
as the next deity!   ;-)

Pass the terabytes, please.

-- 
__
\/  -+-  randy  -+-  all generalizations are flawed  -+-  futor@llnl.gov  -+-