From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Marital Status (definition of Hindu)
Date: 13 Nov 1992 14:48:50 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <1992Nov13.090529.6583@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:

> In article <SAHMED.92Nov10232311@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> you write:
> >In indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
> >
> >?ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu writes:
> >?>In .. indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
> >? Not exactly nationalism. But being faithful to all that has given 
> >? us this vision. If I were born in India it  would equate to Indian 
> >? nationalism. If I were born else where, then it  means Viewing these with 
> >? respect and Honor. 
> >
> >If you were born elsewhere say Canada would hinduism equate to
> >Canadian nationalism? 
> 
>    Please read my other posts. I do not how and why you are deciphering 
>    this way. Please give some clue as to how your logics work. Also I have 
>    mentioned something very clearly in the above few sentences.
>    (respect and Honor to India.) 

I've read all your "articles" and you still haven't answered the
question.  Why does Hinduism translate to Indian nationalism, and if
it does, then why should others who are nationals of a different
country subscribe to such patriotic feelings directed to a foreign
(foreign to them) country?

> >? I am not just implying,  but saying it CLEARLY. The HINDU values are NOT 
> >? faith dependant. Like for example, respecting  woman, respecting cow, 
> >? ones freedom of faith in pursuing the Ultimate truth (MOKSHA), ones duties
> >? (not only Religious, but towards society, Man kind etc,). So even whether
> >? one is Vaishnavite or Shivite or an Athiest if he subscribes to these 
> >? he is a HINDU.  The Indian-ness is attributed to them because,
> >? these VALUES were practiced by Indians initially.
> >
> >And the values of respect for fellow beings were not practiced anywere
> >else? Is India the first place where these values were practiced. 
> 
>    YES. India is the first country, where these have been practiced and 
>    Established. 

Is this guy for real?

> >??A canadian Eskimo can also become Hindu. He can remain a Hindu, and 
> >??remain committed to integrity of Bharat. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU FIND
> >??CONTRADICTION IN THESE. How will his Canadian interests clash with his 
> >??Hindu interests of "sarve jana sukhino bhavanthu, sarve  santhu .." ? 
> >
> >If we follow your definition of Hinduism his canadian interests would
> >clash with his Hindu interests whenever there is a political dispute
> >between canada and India.
> 
>    Why will political disputes arise between two Hindus, who are following
>    the same LIFE OF TRUTH, which is HINDU way of life?  There cannot be a 
>    Canadian truth and Indian truth - you see.

Then how come there are political disputes even between Indian Hindus?
Is there more than one "Indian truth?"  Or are you the only one who is
blessed with the knowledge of this "Indian truth?"

> >Above are two extracs from the same posting. First you accuse Shakil
> >of having an incomplete or incorrect knowledge of Hinduism. And then
> >you admit that you don't know enough about Islam and yet you find it
> >fit to lecture on it. Don't you think you should practice what you
> >preach. Yes Islam rules out multiple beliefs, but no one is compelled
> >to accept Islam. 
>  
>    I did not ever intend to lecture on Islam.I had some doubts which
>    I wanted  to clarify through some other THREAD. 

You have an "interesting" manner of phrasing your questions which you
state for "clarification"...

>    As for this thread, I think what ever 
>    I have said on Islam were atleast not wrong AS-OF-DATE. 

You obviously have not read any of the numerous articles which have
proved each and every one of your "statements" wrong.

>    If you have read 
>    carefully, I have said "I donot know what exactly is written in
>    books, but in action it has happened and been happening in the
>    name of Islam". 

And you did not provide any examples for that either.

>    Any way, I DONOT intend to accuse anybody. I believe that facts need to be 
>    straightened. Thats it. As far as Mr.Shakil's views on Hinduism today, 
>    that is what I say to even most of the present day Hindus who hold similar
>    views without knowing the actual truth. I donot know WHY YOU USED accuse.
>    It is just a correction to be noted. Thats it.

Mr. Shakil did not say he had any particular views on Hinduism.  All I
said was that I had not heard this alleged equivalence of Hinduism and
Indian nationalism before and that it seemed very difficult to defend.
Simply put, I don't understand your ideas on that, and you still
failed to give an adequate explanation.

>                  ************************************
> A Personal request:   In view of decency and ethics over net, please DON'T 
>   get into personal abuse or any such trash. Samyamana (self-control) is one
>   of the foremost qualities of Hinduism.
>                  ************************************

You might want to consider practicing what you preach...

-- Shakil