From: dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: PP executive says "personhood...begins a month after birth"
Keywords: : w $articles/scandal.pp - this has been archived!
Reply-To: dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:18:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.190140.16015@csus.edu> 
chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:

>dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>> Did you catch the part where a Planned Parenthood executive stated
>> that "personhood... begins a month after birth"??!! Not only that,
>> but the same PP executive states that "my logic is based on ... a religious
>> perspective". Hey Jay Stein, what do you think of those remarks?

> Hey, Doug, ever notice how Jay Stein whacks on and on about religious
> bends in the PRO-LIFE camp? 

Yeah, Stein seems to enjoy promoting the idea that abortion is a 
religious issue, but I think his strategy will backfire badly once 
more pro-choicers start voicing their religious views on abortion.

Did you ever notice that pro-choicers back off from their "abortion
is a religious issue" rant whenever Mark Ira Kaufman opens his mouth?
We definitely need to get Kaufman posting more. 


> Now how will Jay Stein (and yes, my dog DOES want fries with that
> order) respond to pro-choicers who cram their religious views down
> people's throats? 

Well, he's shown some integrity by taking a stand against Feldt's  
pro-choice view that abortion is a religious issue, but don't
expect many other pro-choicers to do the same. Garvin seems to
have gone into "apologist mode". And even when asked, Stein 
ignored Feldt's remark that "personhood begins...a month after birth". 

Let's look at the score-card:

                                          Pro-choicer Feldt's remark
       Feldt's remark that "personhood    that her logic is based upon  
       begins...a month after birth"      a religious perspective 
       ----------------------------------------------------------------

Stein     Ignored the remark                Criticized the remark


Garvin    Apologist                         Apologist


Kaufman    ????                               ????


> How about you, Mark Kaufman? 

Yeah, how about it Kaufman? 


>>Here's the quote, in case anybody missed it:
>>
>>Message-ID: <1482700012@igc.org>
>>
>>> FROM CATHOLICS FOR A FREE CHOICE
>>> 
>>> The following is an article from the Spring 1992 issue of
>>> Conscience, the quarterly newsjournal of prochoice Catholic
>>> opinion published by Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC),
>>> [...]
>> 
>>>                          Gloria Feldt
>>> chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona;
>>>          board member, Arizona Family Planning Council
>>> [...]
>>
>>> Gloria Feldt   I do not believe that the fetus, although it has
>>> value, is entitled to personhood status or to any other
>>> citizenship guarantee under the Constitution, and therefore due
>>> process for the fetus is not a legal right but a legal wrong.  
>>>     My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
>>> that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
>>>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> we want to be precise) and that the well-being of the woman must
>>> prevail [and on] the ... information I have gained from looking
>>> at actual fetal life and at women involved in pregnancies,
>>> childbearing, miscarriages, and abortion....
>>>      * * *
>>> What religious perspective holds that the woman always comes
>>> first? Judaism.  The Talmud lists certain circumstances in which
>>> abortion should be performed for the benefit of the woman.  It is
>>> clear in its teaching that life (personhood) does not occur until
>>> a point during the birth process--generally when the head is out. 
>>
>>>     I was stretching things a bit to say that one month after
>>> birth is the more precise point, but it is true that, because of
>>> high infant mortality rates at the time, some believed that the
>>> baby should not be named or counted until that time (not because
>>> it was not valued, but because it was valued so much that there
>>> was great fear of losing it).  
>>> [.. rest deleted ..] 

>> One has to wonder why she eased away from her initial remarks. 

> This should be good for a list of quotes. I'll submit this to my local
> Pro-Life Council and Feminists for Life, and our USENET newsletter,
> for further investigation and, as pro-choicers do to us every day,
> exploitation. 

You know, it might make a good signature. >:-) 

How does this look to you: 


     "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
we want to be precise)..."
  -- Gloria Feldt,
     chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona



>Steve Chaney 


Doug Holtsinger