From: dtriplett@udel.edu (Daniel C. Triplett)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Valeyard's TRUE goals
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:36:00 GMT
Organization: High Council of Gallifrey
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan8.210752.1818@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, echristo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elena A Christofides) writes...
>In article <JT92wB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (D
>ave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>>bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
>>
>>- When the Master said 'between your 12th and last regeneration' when describi
>n
>>                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>- the Valeyard it was NOT a mistake by the writers or by the Master.  We know
>>- from 'Twin Dilemma" that Time Lords DO have a THIRTEENTH regeneration, but i
>t
>>- is normally fatal.  This 13th regeneration is also implied when the Master
>>- steals the Keeper of Traken's body (Instead of being fatal the 13th
>>- regeneration results in a new form.)  As the Valeyard is the Doctor's 14th
>>- incarnation the Master knows that the Valeyard will fail in getting more
>>- regenerations from his past self and, foolishly,  believes that the Valeyard
>>- will not have the opotunity to hijack a body like the Master did.
>>
>> Point of order here!!
>>
>>  In Trial of a Timelord Part 13, The word is NOT regeneration, it is
>>INCARNATION!  The Valeyard IS INDEED The Watcher for the 12th Doctor in other
>>that the Doctor can regenerate to final incarnation!!
>>
>>Dave Shariff Yadallee
> 
>Dave, could you please explain yourself?
> 
>I'm sorry if I'm a little slow on the uptake - but, what *EXACTLY*
>do you mean by *incarnation* as opposed to *regeneration*?
> 
>And about the watcher???????
> 
>Elena

	The first *incarnation* of the Doctor would have been William
Hartnell's Doctor, while the first *regeneration* of the Doctor would
have been Patrick Troughton's.  The *incarnation* includes the first
"body," the one the Time Lord is born/engineered with.  The regenerations
don't occur until after that body wears out.  Therefore, the 12 *incarnation*
of the Doctor would be the the one right after the 11th *regeneration* of
the Doctor; the 12th *regeneration* of the Doctor will result in the 
13th *incarnation* of the Doctor (soory if that's confusing, looking
back over it I'm not sure I know what I just said).
	The Watcher is a projection of a future incarnation that a Time
Lord is able to create.  K'anpo in the third Doctor's last show (the name
eludes me. Was it "Planet of the Spiders?"), had a watcher (I can't remember
his name), who appereared to be a seperate person and it was not known
that he was actually K'anpo until K'anpo regenerated into him.  The Doctor
had a Watcher in Logopolis, but his watcher appeared almost ghostly - this
I attribute to the fact the the Doctor's mind powers were not on the same
level as those of K'anpo. 
	Hope that helps, and sorry Dave if I've stolen any of your thunder.

----
Daniel C. Triplett (dtriplett@loyola.edu)
	"Call here for help.  That's what I do.  I let the little children
sleep safely at night because I've searched through all the shadows and
chased the baddies away.  I'm what monsters have nightmares about."
						- Paul Cornell
						_Love and War_