HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mfm0@ellis.uchicago.edu (martin frederic melhus)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Dutch occupation
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:03:45 GMT
Reply-To: mfm0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <76783.2759222635@kiwi.gen.nz> murray@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Keen) writes:
>
> They would listen to the V2's passing overhead, and if the Engine stopped it
>was time to find shelter. She says they sounded much higher pitched than the
>V1. I thought this interesting as the V2 was a supersonic rocket bomb, but it
>figures if they were subsonic at that point in their flight path.

No, that doesn't figure.  Supersonic missiles are still audible.  They would
just hit before the sound stopped IF they were under full power the whole
flight.  But they fell when their fuel was exhausted, and probably slowed to
subsonic speeds close to impact.  They were supersonic so that they were 
harder to intercept during flight, (by the end of the war, the RAF and the
radar guided guns were shooting down 96 out of 100 of them, according to a
war program I saw on the TV recently, so the speed didn't help a lot.
Unfortunately, a 4% hit rate is still too high for civilian comfort.)

> She also remembers a Jewish family in her street who went about their
>business throughout the occupation; none were dragged off or harassed in any
>way. I've asked her for more information about this aspect of the occupation,
>but she doesent want to talk about it as she lived through it.

By itself, this doesn't say a lot.  Perhaps the family didn't tell anyone
that they were Jewish, and no-one bothered to rat on them to the Nazis.
And for how long did the Nazis occupy your mother's town?  We'd need to 
hear a lot more about this story before it would have a chance of debunking
the standard treatment of Jews by the Nazi aggressors.

-- 
                          | You have all the time from when you remove the |
     Martin F. Melhus     | card(s) from your hand until you put it (them) |
 mfm0@midway.uchicago.edu | on the pile to say "Last Card".  If you don't, |
                          | take your two. - Hidden texts, Book of MauMau. |
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Does This Guy Sound Familiar?
Keywords: B-CPU Revisionism David Irving
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 01:48:51 GMT

gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:

#Clinton said the material was from the Institute for Historical Review,
#a Southern California organization headed by Willis A. Carto.
#
#Carto, who has been described by the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai
#B'rith as the leading anti-Semitic propogandist in the nation, is a
#principal sponsor of the U.S. appearances of Irving and other
#revisionist historians.  He also heads the Liberty Lobby, described by
#the league as the most prolific and best-financed anti-Semitic group in
#the nation.

The elusive Willis Carto is the driving force behind many racist
organizations and publications. In the past, he wrote "The defeat
of Hitler was the defeat of America and Europe". In addition to
sponsoring the particularly repulsive form of antisemitism known
as "Holocaust revisionism", the publishing house he founded (Noontide
press) distributes the following:

"The Biology of the Race Problem"
"Our Nordic race"
"The Testing of Negro Intelligence"
"The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"

And many other books, including two hailing Hitler and Goering as
"the great national socialist leader" and "an active champion of
western society in the fight against bolshevism".

Carto's followers seem to stick to his platform. When the Holocaust
denial debate was going on in the GEnie network sometime ago, the
most vocal and persistent denier (who now works for the IHR) described
Hitler as "A great man" and "the greatest leader of this century,
greater than Churchill and FDR combined - just what Germany needed".

#Carto's institute in 1979 offered a $50,000 cash reward to anyone who
#could prove that anyone was actually gassed at Auschwitz.  Mel
#Mermelstein, Auschwitz prisoner A-4685, answered the challenge by
#presenting affidavits detailing the deaths of his mother, father,
#brother and two sisters at the camp.  He then sued when the institute
#refused to pay the reward.

Mel Mermelstein lost his family in the gas chamber of Krema V in
Auschwitz. It is hard to determine the exact number of people
who were gassed in the camp - current estimates run from 1.1 to
1.3 million Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Russian POW's (who were actually
the first to be gassed), Homosexuals and others.

#A Los Angeles County court awarded Mermelstein a $90,000 judgment
#against Carto's institute.

Nontheless, the deniers keep claimimg that no one was able to
claim the reward.

-Danny Keren.
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Does This Guy Sound Familiar?
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:02:00 GMT
Organization: The World


>The man responsible for bringing David Irving to the Portland area was
>stopped by police in April after he and two of the state's leading
>Skinhead organizers distributed fliers questioning whether the Holocaust
>really happened.

Stopped? This The Oregonian thinks is news?

>Clinton was driving his car as he, Heick and Johnson distributed fliers
>questioning whether the Holocaust was a hoax.  He was stopped by police,
>who were alerted to the leafletting, after Clinton parked his car on the
>wrong side of the road.

Alerted to the leafletting? Oh my.

These skinhead/revisionist fellows are no doubt slime, however this is
interesting spin and sleazy journalism, hold the presses: Pizza Heaven
stopped for alleged leafletting of their new 2-for-1 anchovy special!

Sounds to me like small-minded locals abusing their police powers to
deny political expression.


--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Holocaust Almanac: Bialystok Deportations - Liquidating the ghettos
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 12:01:02 GMT
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: Bialystok,Treblinka

"The Bialystok General District ... constituted an independent 
administrative district within the German regime in occupied Poland...

During the first months of the German occupation ... the Jewish population
... suffered a wave of mass murders.... 31,000 Jews, mostly men, were shot
by the Einsatzgruppen near their homes. On the eve of mass deportations to
Treblinka and Auschwitz, in the autumn of 1942, there were about 210,000
Jews in the district, concentrated in ghettos. ...

In the first half of October 1942, the Reich Security Main Office issued an
order to local SS authorities in the Bialystok General District to
liquidate all the ghettos in the district and deport the Jews. But after
the intervention of the German army and German civilian authorities that
employed Jewish labor in war-economy enterprises, it was decided that the
liquidation of the Bialystok ghetto would be postponed. <1>

The deportation fo the Jews from the Bialystok district to Treblinka and,
in part, to Auschwitz commenced after the deportation of most of the
General Government Jews had been completed. It began in mid-October 1942,
and continued until mid-February 1943. ... At the end of this period, only
30,000 Jews from the entire General District remained in the Bialystok
ghetto.

<1> Eisenbach, Artur, "Hitlerowski Polityka Zaglady Zydow", Warszawa, 1961
    pp. 457-459

Excerpted from....----------------------------------------------
BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps
Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987. ISBN 0-253-3429-7
----------------------------------------------------------------
Files used for these news posts are available to anyone upon request.
Send email to kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca and request oneb-txt.zip - it
will be uuencoded and sent to you as soon as I can get around to it.
-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
                    < October 26th: voting NO >
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev...            
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:18:19 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Keywords: Babi Yar,Kiev,Radomski,Syrets

In article <1992Oct8.055238.26806@midway.uchicago.edu> mfm0@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <BvMLE0.9n0@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>[refering to a posting from the Holocaust almanac - MFM]
>>
>>I find it strange that you post this article in alt.revisionism.  Are
>>you implying that it is not true history?   Or are you just bored?
>>js
>
>OK, Jack, here's the deal.  Alt.revisionism is about holocaust revisionism.
>Yes, I know that the word "holocaust" does not specifically occur in the
>newsgroup title, but aside from a few postings by a not to be named here
>individual about the turk-armeni conflict, all of the 1000+ articles I've
>seen in this newsgroup are about the holocaust.  As such, Mr. McVay's 
>article is quite pertinent, as it seems to indicate that holocaust
>revisionism is nonsense.
>
>For those of you who thought that this might be a joke on Jack's
>part, I have to disagree.  I've seen other stuff that he's posted,
>and this is typical of the things he writes, except that it lacks the

I am glad you ttook the trouble to tell everyone how to think about what
I said.  You sound just like Rush Limbaugh.

It was only partly a joke.  In fact I only look in this group occassionally
and all I seem to see is postings touting the usual, plitically correct view
of the holocaust in stead of articles by revisionists touting revisionist
views.  There doesn't seem to be any point in the newsgroup if there is no
revisionist viewpoint.  There is no one to argue with.  It would be like 
alt.creationism if only evolutionists posted.  


>P.S. - How are your daughter's wedding plans going, Jack?

She is now Vicki Greenberg.  We are having an open house party for them
on Oct 23.  They ran off to Colorado to get married (much to my delight) and
the party is sort of after the fact but should be great fun. Good chance for theNNazis and the hymies to get together and share the World's Greatest Beer.  I
have 3 kegs of homebrew ale and lager and a keg of hard cider.  

You're welcome to come.  As I pointed out before my mother pronounced my
homebrew, "Kosher enough".

Thank you for the thoughts.  I was of course in jest using those nasty words but
whether I use them or not, I get accused of it so I might as well havefun.

js
Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:754 alt.conspiracy:11358 alt.activism:17602
From: spl@ivem.uucp (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Does This Guy Sound Familiar?
Keywords: B-CPU Revisionism David Irving
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:15:17 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Oct15.231541.2327@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>I thought people on the net might recognize a familiar sound issuing --
>I'm embarrassed to admit -- here in Portland, Oregon. ...
> [...]
>The man responsible for bringing David Irving to the Portland area was
>stopped by police in April after he and two of the state's leading
>Skinhead organizers distributed fliers questioning whether the Holocaust
>really happened.
> [...]
>Clinton was driving his car as he, Heick and Johnson distributed fliers
>questioning whether the Holocaust was a hoax.  He was stopped by police,
>who were alerted to the leafletting, after Clinton parked his car on the
>wrong side of the road.

Yes, I believe the familiar sound is that of censorship and violation
of constitutional protections.

While I find the contentions of Irving and other putative or alleged
antisemites to be repugnant, ill-conceived, and, at the very least,
downright stupid, I cannot support what appears to be police
harassment of what, furthermore, appears to be lawful activity.

If Irving's right to leaflet is infringed, so is mine.  Unless
constitutional protections are applied to all, they protect no one.

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Twit twit twit/Jug jug jug jug jug jug/So rudely forc'd./Tereu"
                - T. S. Eliot, "The Waste Land," III. The Fire Sermon
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
From: rjn@FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland)
Subject: Re: Selective Disclosure (was Re:  LOOKING FOR GOOD MLMs (?) )
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:12:56 GMT
Reply-To: rjn@FC.HP.COM
Organization: Hewlett-Packard/WSY Ft.Collins,CO,USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

Jon Noring (noring@netcom.com) wrote:

> First of all, I have observed that *all* MLMs, once they get big enough,
> develop a negative name recognition among a significant fraction of the
> population.

I disagree.  

> ...counter that the negativity is unfounded and stems from two sources:
> 1. unethical or unwise business practices of some distributors/organizations,

I would contend that this is a failure of the marketing/compensation plan.
If a plan is open to abuse, I agree that it will eventually be abused by
someone.  But it is possible to construct a plan that is not abusable.

Regards,                                              Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland      Internet: rjn@FC.HP.COM               3404 East Harmony Road
                CompuServe:  71044,2124               Ft Collins CO 80525-9599

This article represents only the opinion[s] of its author, and is not an
official or unofficial position of, or statement by, the Hewlett-Packard
Company.  The text is provided for informational purposes only.  It is
supplied without warranty of any kind.
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: ray@geac.com (Ray Raheem)
Subject: Re: MATOL - Did I miss a thread?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:37:01 GMT
Organization: Geac Computer Corporation

In article <1992Oct13.143747.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> bill@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>Did I miss a thread?  The name seems familiar, but I am unsure...
>If it was discussed, it'll turn up on the FAQ...(eh Jon)...
>
>Anybody heard of MATOL?  Someone who knew I deal Amway products and
>BARLEYGREEN approached me about this MLM. Their main product is
>a combination of herbs which is supposed to make you feel better -
>a tonic, basically.
>
I was approached by a friend of mine to try Matol's tonic for 3 weeks with
the promise that it would increase my energy level among other things. My
friend (who also is a doctor) said that several members of his family have
used it with noticable differences in their energy level. I tried it for 4
weeks, carefully monitoring myself for any changes, but found absolutely none.
I had fully intended on selling the stuff, but after using it myself, I could
not find myself telling other people how wonderful the stuff was when it had
absolutely no effect on me. This stuff is also not cheap. Last I heard it was
selling here (in Canada) for $48 per bottle (1 month supply)!!!!. At that
price it better show some remarkable effects on my health!!.

I am not an MLM basher. In fact I am currently a SkyPix distributor...but
I am SICK AND TIRED of the overblown prices of most MLM products.

Ray Raheem
Geac Computers Canada
From: scotts@hotcity.COM (Scott Scribner)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re:  LOOKING FOR GOOD MLMs (?)
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:13:43 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Oct12.225059.28120@col.hp.com>, lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
writes:
>???????????????????????????????????
>
>This posting illustrates one of the major reasons why I, and some
>other people, tend to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to some
>MLM's.
>
>What possible reason could this person have for omitting the name of
>his MLM?
>
>Why do Amway distributors often talk to you for many minutes about
>"this great business opportunity" without ever saying "Amway"?
>
>When people do this, it makes me think that YOU are thinking, "If she
>knows what this organization is, she wouldn't be interested." THAT in
>turn makes me think that I SHOULDN'T be interested. It also puts MLM'ers
>in the same class as Jehovah's Witnesses (who sometimes use the same 
>tactic). If I'm NOT interested, and I already know that I'm not, 
>you're wasting both our time.
>
>So what do you say, folks? If you use this "technique", why?  Is it that
>your MLM has such a bad name that you EXPECT people to walk away if you
>tell them too soon? What's the deal?
>-- 
>Laura Johnson
>lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
>Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.

I also tend to agree with what was said....I have been in amway for 1 year and
do not like the technic used to introduce people to the business....I like to
be up front with them and have found that it seems to lend crediabilty to
wg=hat I am saying about the business.
just my opinion.
From: jde@Unify.com (Jeff Evarts)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Confused & Bad Experiences with Amway.
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:28:24 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)

In article <1992Oct05.161138.3906@bnr.ca>, Marker_Man writes:
>       
>          Gee, you really ARE confused!!  		
> 
> 	 You're also full of shit PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD.	
> 
>          Amway is no fraud, you dork, or they wouldn't have survived	
> 33 years in business.  Refute THAT, asshole.

Yeesh, Marker-Man!

	I really think this is an ineffective way to make a point

	Obviously he hit a chink in your armor.

	Your response tells us more about your weakness than the strength
	of his arguments, whatever they were (they didn`t get this far)

	Keep it clean, or keep it shut, as my momma used to say.
	Good advice in life, even better on the net.

(I would have put this in email, except you`re hiding behind that Marker-Man
 alias, and it`s WAY too much work to find you just to tell you things you
 should already know)


Everyone else: Sorry for taking up your time.

(UNIFY has no connection to any MLM that I am aware of)
-Jeff Evarts
--jde@unify.com
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level,alt.business.multi-level.scam.scam.scam
From: Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Subject: Re: Selective Disclosure
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:19:25 GMT

noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
>
>>Why do Amway distributors often talk to you for many minutes about
>>"this great business opportunity" without ever saying "Amway"?
>>
>... most people, when they hear or see something, will search their
>memory banks for some type of emotional association.  If the associated
>emotion is negative, they will tend to tune out any further information since
>it would be a waste of their time ...

This is a polite way to slam any negative feelings about MLM.  All negative
associations are "emotional".  Couldn't possibly be that these negative
associations have any valid basis in fact, could it?

>
>... [a] principle that guides MLMers is their belief that the business they
>represent is honest, moral, ethical and legal, and profitable, ...
>
>...a MLMer will come up with the following logic ...:
>1.  ... I see that [this MLM] is a great business...
>2.  ... if I drop the name of the MLM too early, ...  they will make [a]
>    negative decision...
>3.  Thus, I must [hide the name of the MLM].

A reasonable non-scammer non-MLMer will come up with the following logic:
1.  This "representative" of the MLM in question intentionally
    failed to identify the name of the MLM in question.
2.  This same "representative" is authorized by the MLM to do this.
3.  To hide the name of the MLM is in itself dishonest.
4.  Thus, the MLM in question cannot possibly be honest, moral or ethical.

				Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re:  LOOKING FOR GOOD MLMs (?)
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:08:55 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Oct12.225059.28120@col.hp.com>,
 lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:
> What possible reason could this person have for omitting the name of
> his MLM?

Why do you need to know the name?

{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere  (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** CDB@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: MIHOLMSTROM@finabo.abo.fi (Mikael Holmstr|m Fei)
Subject: cAN YOU READ THIS
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:36:58 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

Can anyone outside Finland read this?

I hve been asking for info regarding a MLM called Hamiltons of
Canterbury,  I havent received any answers

Is this because of:
1) UnknoMLM ?
2) Laziness ?
or 
3) Nobody can read my postings?
(or cant I read your answers?)

pls mail me,
MIHOLMSTROM@FINABO.ABO.FI

HM

Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: wellss@CS.ColoState.EDU (Stu Wells (Mr. Black))
Subject: WWDB
Summary: AMWAY 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:25:33 GMT
Distribution: alt.business.multi-level
Organization: Colorado State University
Keywords: WWDB/FED 

Hello MLM...

   I just went to my first major function (Free Enterpise Day) in Boulder,
CO.  I am one FIRED UP, WIRED UP MAMBE JAMBA (NO... I don't know what a 
mamba jamba is - but I'm fired up about it.  If you know and it's bad I
don't want to hear about it...)  Anway, I was wondering if any of our 
AMWAY readers are in World Wide Dream Builders.  Anyone who is, please
let me know.  I'd love to chat.  Anyone who isn't, please write me
anyway.  I'd love to chat.  Anyone who wants to fight me about how good
AMWAY is, let me know.  I'd love to defend this company.

     Thanks for the time...

     Stuart J. Wells
     WELLS ENTERPRISES
     wells@mozart.cs.colostate.edu

P.S.  All opinions are mine and do not belong to any one else.

         8-1-95  D I A M O N D
  
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re:  LOOKING FOR GOOD MLMs (?)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:50:59 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

???????????????????????????????????

This posting illustrates one of the major reasons why I, and some
other people, tend to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to some
MLM's.

What possible reason could this person have for omitting the name of
his MLM?

Why do Amway distributors often talk to you for many minutes about
"this great business opportunity" without ever saying "Amway"?

When people do this, it makes me think that YOU are thinking, "If she
knows what this organization is, she wouldn't be interested." THAT in
turn makes me think that I SHOULDN'T be interested. It also puts MLM'ers
in the same class as Jehovah's Witnesses (who sometimes use the same 
tactic). If I'm NOT interested, and I already know that I'm not, 
you're wasting both our time.

So what do you say, folks? If you use this "technique", why?  Is it that
your MLM has such a bad name that you EXPECT people to walk away if you
tell them too soon? What's the deal?
-- 
Laura Johnson
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.
From: romingk@pell3l0.alleg.edu (Karl Rominger)
Subject: ARCHIVES
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:19:18 GMT


Anyone know where this group is archived?  What is the FTP address?

romingk@alleg.edu