From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: What clan and what tartan?
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:19:52 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Sep10.130315.28749@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior)
>>My husband comes from Irish and Scottish origins.  We know his Irish side
>>very well, but his Scottish origins are murky at best.  On a trip to
>>Edinburough, his mother found a number of Scottish Bonhams listed on
>>a war memorial.  So far, we've had no luck tracking down what clan the
>>Scottish Bonhams are out of and what tartan would be appropriate.

>see my comments on celticry and swords-and-sorcey.
>
>The clan system only existed in the Highlands in the north of
>Scotland. The fact that someone is Scottish does not mean that
>they can be assigned to a clan. In order to encourage
>romantically minded tourists, one occasionally find tables with
>suggestions that anyone with, say, the surname "Smith" is part
>of the clan "MacDonald". This is all total nonsense, the only
>basis being that perhaps a family with that surname at one time
>lived on MacDonald land. It surely does not require a great
>deal of thought to realise that not everyone with the
>surname "Smith" in Scotland, let alone everyone named "Smith"
>in the world can thus be said to be "out of" Clan MacDonald.
>
>There is in any case almost no hisorical evidence that specific
>tartans were associated with specific clans. It appears that
>the associations were invented by cloth manufacturers in the
>19th century.
>

Well there's some truth in what Matthew says, but Matt - need you spoil
everyones innocent fun? I think the bee in your bonnet is going a bit
doolally myself.


Yes, the clam system was restricted to the highlands. Yes, not everone
of Scottish origin is of Celtic origin. Yes, life in the highlands was
as miserable as it is for subsistence peasant cultures everywhere.

But I don't see why Ms Bonham deserves such a lecture for a mere
enquiry. The wearing of and enjoyment of kilts and tartans is not a dead
tradition. Lots of us Scots like doing it and don't need lessons on our
ignorance for doing so.

We all know ( well regulars on this newsgroup do )that many tartans are of 
modern, ie Victorian design) It is not true to say that they all are. It is
not true to say that there is no historical association between name and 
Tartan - this is a hotly disputed academic point, not an undisputed fact
that only ignorant Americans are unaware of.


I myself have kilts or kilt-skirts in Hunting Ross ( modern colours),
MacLean of Duart ( reproduction colours ) and Lindsay ( modern colours)
a skirt in Murray of Atholl ( modern colours ) and a totally fab new cape in
Hunting MacRae ( modern colours ). Of all these tartans, I would defend
the antiquity of only the MacLean, from which modern-day Royal Stewart
is descended via Proce Charles Edward Stewart which --- whassat? You
don't all want lectures from me either..?

Oh all right then, please yersel's  :-(


M






--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.