HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1498@twwells.com (Sierra)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Sierra's back! - with questions about confrontations
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:08:22 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes


Hi there y'all - this is Sierra (with a new anon-id, you may notice...)
I decided to come back to asar; I've been reading and it seems to be
getting better.  I have missed this place, and I'm glad to be back (I
think).

I wanted to ask y'all about confronting perpetrators.  My father and my
mother both abused me.  What my father did was much more serious; I'm 
not excusing my mother's actions, but they were nowhere near as bad as
what he did (some of you may remember what I'm talking about - rape,
knives, etc).  Anyway, I've been planning on confronting them for a while,
or at least my father.  I did accuse him of abusing me about eight months
ago; his response was to deny it and to write me angry letters asking how
I could make those accusations, and my mother also refused to believe me
(this is just about him, not about anything she has done, which I haven't
even mentioned to either of them).

They are both very abusive people, and I want to get them as far out of
my life as possible.  Sometime in the next two months, I've been planning
on calling them up and confronting them again; and then cutting off all
ties with them.  I'm worried, though, that I'm expecting too much out of
this confrontation.  I think I've been expecting it to solve many more of
my problems than it will; I know getting my parents out of my life will
be a major step, but how much will it really do?  One of the things which
made the first time I confronted them so traumatic was that I expected my
mother to believe me, and it really shocked and upset me when I didn't.
I don't want to go into this confrontation with overblown expectations,
too.

And now I've been starting to wonder if it's fair to them to plan on 
cutting them out of my life ("divorcing" myself from them).  Shouldn't
I give them a chance?  What if they react positively to what I have to
say?  Maybe my father will admit what he's done, given enough time... A
therapist told me that 90% of all abusers deny it, and I really don't think
they'll react positively, but shouldn't I give them a chance?

If any of you all have confronted your perps, how did it go?  What is it
really like to formally cut off ties with your family?  Do you have any
suggestions for how I should handle this?  I could certainly use advice.

Sierra

If any of the other ones that ran away are still reading asar, I'm thinking
of you...




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: A Few More Days
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:54:07 GMT

Seeker (anon-1421@twwells.com) wrote:

: cujo writes:
: <stuff deleted> 
: >I THINK WHAT IS REALLY EATING AT  ME IS:
: > 
: >WHY DO I HAVE THIS INABILITY  TO SAY  NO!!??
: > 
: >This question really eats up at me inside.
: <stuff deleted> 

: I have been asking myself the same question. 
: My understanding of this comes in 3 parts: the piece owned
: by my parents who didn't teach me successful coping skills,
: the piece owned by my abusers, and the piece owned by me.
: 
: I have realized that I was trained to be submissive 
: and simply do not have some of the
: defenses that most other people do. I have some other defenses,
: but they do not work well. I am not responsible for this part.
: It is what I was taught. 

My parents chose to communicate to me (falsely, I found out later) that I didn't
have the RIGHT to say no.  It took a long time to get over that.
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

Who and what would you be if you went beyond your deepest fears?
From: anon-1280@twwells.com (ReachingOut)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Suicide songs that give me comfort 4
Date: 28 Dec 92 05:54:23 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Happy Rhodes
Warpaint


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

7) LAY ME DOWN (3:51)

   Take the sun away
   Bloom no flower
   Call the voices off
   Send the angels to shelter
   The dark rolls in

   Lay me down 
   Encompass me 
   With violets
 
   Where there was hope
   Let there now be sorrow
   Let no sparrow sing
   Light the candles and incense
   The clouds roll in

   Lay me down 
   Encompass me
   With lilacs

   Steal my sight away
   Spare no smile on me
   Let the wells run dry
   Tell my guardian it's over
   The night crawls in

   Lay me down 
   Encompass me 
   With darkness

   Lay me down 
   Encompass me
   With silence

(c)1991 Happy Rhodes
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine)
Subject: Re: Still Wondering
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:39:13 GMT

In article <1h0a0oINN6eg@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.31@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>Frankly, I'd prefer not to learn that
>I was sexually abused.  The emotional abuse was enough.
Well said.

>Incidentally, I can't seem to find a group that deals with the
>residual effects of emotional abuse during childhood.  While it
>may not be as traumatic as sexual abuse, it does leave some pretty
>deep scars, and some decidedly inappropriate behavior patterns.
>Maybe alt.support would support some discussion of this if I start
>it out.  Any other suggestions?  I don't want to dilute the 
>discussions in this group with stuff that's not relevant to its
>principal purpose.

Speaking for myself, I don't think anything that you've mentioned is
not relevant here.  I think that much (most?) of the problems that
abuse causes are unique to one form of abuse.  They are more unique to
each individual, in the mix of affects and coping mechanisms used.

-- 
Hal Wine
Internet: hal@netcom.com		Compuserve: 72267,3346
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine)
Subject: Abuse Effects in Other Societies (was Re: TIRED)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:59:32 GMT

Ed Carp writes:
>An interesting question might be, what effect does child sexual abuse have
>on its victims when the sexual abuse is an accepted part of the culture
>the child is raised in?  There are several cultures (and subcultures, even
>here in the US) where sex with a minor is considered acceptable - even
>encouraged.  I am curious if the survivors have the same types and range of
>problems in a society where such behavior is considered the norm.

Disclaimer: I don't pretend to be an expert on this subject.

My limited experience has to do with intereactions I've had with some
survivors, perps, and politicians in West Virginia.  I've been told
that there are some "subcultures" back in the hills, where sexual
abuse is still considered "normal", or atleast "acceptable".

However, I don't see any differences in the survivors I met.  My
opinion is that the claim that these subcultures believe this
behaviour is "normal" is a crock -- just a technique that aids denial.
(And if the opperative definition of "acceptable" is that no one
complains or does anything to stop it, then one could claim that, by
and large, the whole U.S. mainstream culture considers sexual abuse
"acceptable".)

The behaviour is accompanied by all the secret keeping and shaming
that occurs in our larger culture.  I believe that this secret keeping
and shaming is what conveys the message that the abuse was "wrong",
regardless of how many others in the community share the experience.

Just my opinion...
-- 
Hal Wine
Internet: hal@netcom.com		Compuserve: 72267,3346
From: anon-1280@twwells.com (ReachingOut)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Let it end soon, please
Date: 28 Dec 92 02:03:44 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine) writes:

>Samantha writes:
>>But, I realized when i turned 18, that there was no way that i was going
>>to let him stop me from being everything that i wanted to be. I am on my
>>way to becoming a teacher. And, eventually, i will open my own school. 

>Great!  I like to hear success stories, as it helps me remember that
>there *is* hope, that there *is* an end to the worst of it.

I wish I could believe this for myself. I don't, not at all. It will
end when I die. Since I'm too weak and wimpy to kill myself, I'm
resigned to live with this shit until my body finally gives up and
breaks down in frustration. It's coming...I feel it. I hope it comes
sooner rather than later because I can't take living with myself
much longer. It's only just begun too, that's the hardest thing to
face. Things can only get worse, and it's only just begun.

Please don't anyone respond to this. Kind words are wasted on me-I
just don't deserve them. Give them to someone who has hope.

ReachingOut (crap, what a lie. I want to change my name again so badly)



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From: anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re:Abuse Effects in Other Societies
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:30:13 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I am interested in this topic because my SO, who has done
a lot of traveling in countries minimally influenced by 
US/European culture, believes that
the impact of child abuse is caused (mostly?) by cultural beliefs not
by anything inherent in the make-up of human beings. He thinks that in
cultures in which there is no shame attached to incest, 
sex-in-general, or sex-with-children that child sexual abuse
does not hurt people. 

I have not traveled so my personal experience is limited to
good old USofA and our sort of culture but my "gut" feeling
is that sex with a child will hurt the child to some degree
regardless of culture. Cultures with less shaming around sex
may cause less scarring or help with healing, but...

Seems to me that a child is unable to give consent to sex
by definition of being a child. Non-consensual sex is damaging
in any culture because it negates a person's ownership over
their body. If you cannot control what happens to your own 
body, then you are helpless, powerless, i.e. a victim. 
Negation of body control is abusive, and therefore scarring,
by its nature, not as a side-effect of the culture in which
it happens (IMHO!).   

I rather dislike my SO's opinion because it seems to imply
that "If only I could let go of cultural influences and sex-shaming
beliefs, then I would be instantly healed". (I haven't asked 
him if this is what he thinks, though, so I may be being unfair
to him. Think I will ask...)
 
Does anyone have more first hand experience? Any members of 
non-USA/European influenced cultures listening on the net?(!) I would
love to tell my SO he is wrong on this :-) . 

thanks
-Seeker

In article 13100@netcom.com, hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine) writes:
>
>My limited experience has to do with intereactions I've had with some
>survivors, perps, and politicians in West Virginia.  I've been told
>that there are some "subcultures" back in the hills, where sexual
>abuse is still considered "normal", or atleast "acceptable".

West Virginia Hills are still USA and there is still probably some
degree of shaming going on ...

<deletions>
>The behaviour is accompanied by all the secret keeping and shaming
>that occurs in our larger culture.  I believe that this secret keeping
>and shaming is what conveys the message that the abuse was "wrong",
>regardless of how many others in the community share the experience.
>
>Just my opinion...
>-- 
>Hal Wine
>Internet: hal@netcom.com		Compuserve: 72267,3346





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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ftlao@acad3.alaska.edu (OSSANDER LINDA A)
Subject: Re: tired still
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:47:00 GMT

In article <C02xvp.BzE@twwells.com>, anon-1317@twwells.com writes...
>thank all of you who have responded to my
>post-- it is funny-- the guy that i told 
>about the child abuse hasn't talked to me
>since-- which is unusual--  i guess he just
didn't want to hear about it.
>>i guess he is like most people and just wish
>i had never said anything-- people seem to think-
>"well, it happened a long time ago-- can't you
>just forget it"  no, i can't forget it-- i tried
>and tried and just didn't deal with it and it grew
>and grew and now it is a big monster that i have to
>fight day in and day out-- but i will win.
This is a problem you will run into with people and it is something I have
learned. But you do what you have to do to heal.
Yes you will come out the winner in the long run by taking care of yourself.
*HUG* If you want them if not pass them on.

> 
>it seems that my telling him changed something-- he
>will probably advoid me now--but that doesn't make
>any difference- does it?
> 
Actually you are better of knowing how he feels now than later.  When I told my
ex-husband our marriage went downhill.

If another person cannot deal with it then it is there problem not yours.  You
did nothing wrong.  I can tell you the next man I have a relationship will know
before we start a relationship.  

Good luck and don't worry there are pleanty of men out there who are loving and
compassionate.  You will find one who cares for you no matter.

                            -Linda-


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1280@twwells.com (MelancholyChild)
Subject: Re: more on cutting, a suggestion
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:50:57 GMT
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

anon-1259@twwells.com (Kate) writes:

>And now, along the lines of ReachingOut (*hug*).  I'd like to put a quote.
>One that helps me too.  And, surprise it is also by Happy Rhodes!!!

>"Warpaint"

>Don't try to tell me there's no reason fo
>any moment in time, every memory of mine.
>Those years are lines of color on my face,
>the past is warpaint.  
>And I fight to the death.

>Kate (and I think someone else may have written a few lines too)   

**HUG** to you (all) too! Nice lyrics...

MelancholyChild



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From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: looking for relationships
Date: 2 Jan 93 02:54:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

anon-1448@twwells.com writes:

[ looking for romance stuff removed ]

>I'm so disappointed I
>don't know what to do.  and I don't know what to do with myself... I
>feel like giving up on finding anybody because it's so much work and
>noone seems to fit the bill.. 
>Phoenix

well, from my personal experience, i would say go ahead and give up!  this
looking for love stuff is hard work, i remember!  i got so tired of rejection,
so tired of the longing for people who longed for other people, fed up with "i
like you as a friend," etc.  so i gave up.  no one says you *have* to be
attached to an s.o.  you're not any less of a person for being single.  anyway,
maybe it was just luck or maybe something in my attitude (desperation?) changed
when i gave up looking, because that's when i found my s.o.  so take care of
yourself.  there tends to be someone out there for everyone, and i'm sure
you're no exception.  they'll turn up sometime.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'Krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Pain...  **SPOILER**
Date: 28 Dec 92 06:44:28 CST
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

Yet another message about recent happenings that needs a


***   SPOILER   WARNING   ***


For Xmas, I received a Swiss Army knife that was actually bought in
Switzerland.  Damn sharp knife.  It's amazingly easy for me to hack up my arm
with it.  Wasn't able to do real damage with razor blades, because of the pain
factor.  Now I don't feel the pain until after the knife is already cutting
another part of the arm...  Today I took cutting to a new level, rather than
just scratching upmy wrists, I started to cut words into my arm.  Well, one
word actually...  "Help".  Time to break out the long sleeved shirts, as the
previous cuttings weren't too obvious.  This is.  Nice big letters.  Written
across 2/3rds of my forearm...

And I managed to read some more of _The Courage To Heal_ today.  Got another 5
pages or so in.  (Then I started blanking out and couldn't remember what I just
read 10 seconds ago...  Gave up for the moment, to return to it later on.)  And
I remembered something in a slightly different light than I had remembered it
in the past.

I clearly remember about age 5 or so, that it was fairly common for the center
of my persona to float about 3 feet over the top of my head.  Yup, I was
outside my body at regular times back then...  Something I've been trying to so
within the last year (intentionally, though meditation and the like) and have
been failing at miserably.  Only I now also remember being scared as all hell
about something other than just the fact that I was floating 3 feet over my
body...  Damned if I know what though.  :(

Ahh well, I'm going to cut it off here for now, as it's late (6:43am, my
bedtime was a couple of hours ago...) and I'm tired as all hell...  Just had to
get that much down first...

<><><><>
Krikket (a.k.a. Doug Krick)  ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
#include<std.disclaimers>    ---  an294@anon.penet.fi
anon-1214@twwells.com        ---  anon.77@pax.tpa.com.au

 "And the Germans killed the Jews.  And the Jews killed the Arabs.
  And the Arabs killed the hostages.  And that is the news."
From: ALI00ERW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: *** PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS SURVEY!!! *** (repost - one more time)
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:18:00 GMT

In article <Bzn8u3.FGG@twwells.com>
anon-1280@twwells.com (ReachingOut) writes:
 
>
>faype@bcvms.bc.edu writes:
>
>>****************************************************************
>>*                  REQUEST FOR SURVEY PARTICIPANTS             *
>>*                STUDY ON SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE            *
>>*                BOSTON COLLEGE SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK          *
>>****************************************************************
>>*********************** CONFIDENTIALITY ************************
>
>>All information will be kept under lock and key and not accessible
>>through any computer network.  No identifying information will
>>be kept with questionaire responses.  All information will be
>>sent through U.S. Mail, and responses will be anonymous.  All work
>>will be overseen by Dr. Nancy Veeder, School of Social Work,
>>Boston College.
>
>>****************************************************************
>
>>To volunteer to fill out the questionaire (or for more info),
>>please send me your name, address (and if possible phone #). You
>>may contact me through mail, e-mail or phone.  Thank you.
>
>First, *please* understand that I am not intending to cast any
>doubt whatsoever on the trustworthyness of Peter. This is not
>a flame, and I hope it doesn't generate any flames in response.
>
>I e-mailed Peter about this survey, saying that I would be more
>than happy to participate in it. Unfortunately, to be able to
>participate, one has to send one's snail-mail address and phone
>number to Peter. I refuse to do that so I guess I'm left out
>of the survey.
>
>This has *nothing* to do with Peter. I trust him and I am certain
>that the confidentiality claim made above is sincere. Still, I'd
>rather not be getting mail concerning sexual abuse at my home
>address, or have my home address in any database relating to
>sexual abuse. Peter exlained that e-mail is not secure, and I
>understand that, but I would prefer to respond to a questionaire
>via e-mail. I don't understand why that option can't be made
>available to those who want it.
 
I emailed Peter about the survey and he assured me that there would be nothing
on the *outside* of the envelop that would mention anything about sexual abuse.
The only way someone would know what was inside would be through opening the
envelop. I sent him my work address instead of my home address. However, I know
that some people's mail at work is opened by a secretary.
 
>ReachingOut
From: anon.95@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Oops...clarification
Date: 4 Jan 1993 15:34:34 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.95@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


In expressing my anguish over not having a safe place to share within
my church environment, I fear I may have created the impression that
I don't feel comfortable in groups like this, or that I consider them
inferior in some way. In fact, I feel safer in this group than any
other group (including manic-depressive support) I've ever been a part of,
and it's wonderful knowing you're out there. I just wish, you know, that
there was something in church *too*. I mean, we're supposed to be
loving each other and walking like Jesus, and I seem to recall that He
spent an awful lot of time helping the down and out.

TJ
Down but Not Out


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