From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Removing GOD from morality. (was: Moral liberty)
Date: 10 Jan 93 15:05:31 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to wooyoung@bu.edu]
 
>>If I follow your argument, you are saying that learning morality the
>>religious way is best for children and simpletons.  While I agree that
>>not everyone will get to the point that they can handle a course in
>>ethics, I still don't see how superstition adds anything to the teaching
>>of morality.  How is the current method employed by religion superior to
>>parental teaching and reinforcing of consistent moral behavior without
>>reference to God?
 
>The feeling or belief that some type of final arbitor (sp?) of justice
>is looking over them make certain decisions easy. (of course, in a
>sense, it takes away one's moral liberty.)
 
If a belief in God makes one more moral, we would expect to see a
greater degree of immorality in countries which have a higher percentage
of atheists, such as the Netherlands, in which according to my almanac
a third of its citizens profess no religion, as compared to its more
religious neighbors.  This doesn't seem to be the case.  While theists
believe that the fear of God induces moral behavior, I don't think there
is any evidence that this is true.  I would like to make the counter-
suggestion that taking responsibility for ones own existence (which
atheists do) enhances moral behavior.
 
>However, without beliefs in the god, one needs to find the reasons for
>moral behavior and guidelines that determines what is moral.
 
I don't think it is very difficult at all to know what is right.  Take a
look sometime at the Humanist Manifestos I and II.  The moral guidelines
they set forth are likely to find broad agreement.  They are mostly what
everyone will agree is right.  The difficulty in determining the right
course of behavior comes when there are ethical conflicts, and one must
weigh conflicting principles.
 
>>The basis of morality should be the belief that if we all act ethically,
>>we can make the world a "heaven on earth", not that one should behave in
>>order to go to heaven.
 
>That would be very nice.  The problem is that the society has grown so
>much in size and culture is in such way to impersonalize individuals.
>I am sure that there are many people out there who thinks that I cannot
>make "heaven on earth" for everyone and what I do cannot make that much
>difference.  So maybe I should try to make "heaven on earth" for myself
>the best I can.
 
I have more faith in humanity than that.  We have come a long way in a
cosmologically very short time.  Look at the spread of democracy, the
emancipation of women and slaves.  Admittedly we have a long way to go
but I think my ideal society is ultimately achievable.  Except for
sociopaths who appear to lack the neural substrate for morality, I
believe that with suitable (non-religious) education, people can be
taught what is moral, and furthermore, to want to behave morally.
Religion gets in the way of this education by fostering tribalism and
discouraging existential responsibility.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: alt.atheism