HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Any New CD for 9.49 (Was: Re: Record shops (LPs))
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:38:51 GMT
Distribution: uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Tim Oldham (tjo@its.bt.co.uk) wrote:
: I've said this before, but I'll say it again. There's no need to pay
: more than 9.49 for any new CD that's currently in any label's catalogue.
: That's the price that MAP charge for mail order. Any quantity. Includes
: P&P. Talk to them on 0705 230495.

: I've no connection with them except as a satisfied customer.

bank of scotland offer a similar service to its visa card holders
.. i think they were #9.39 for any cd including p&p.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk                     tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                1992: celebrate the quincentenary of columbus getting lost
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:30:00 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
> In article <29432@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> > ~If they want or
> > ~need (shock) to go somewhere, how are they going to do it?
> 
> *NEED* to go somewhere, and they haven't the resources (money to you and I) t
> pay for it. Currently they can get in a car (assuming they have one) and driv
> it there.

Hang on a minute -- if they haven't any money, where did they get the car
from?

Are you suggesting that in a free market, with people paying for resources
they use, travel by *all* means will be prohibitively expensive?  More
expensive than the cost of running a car now?  More expensive than the money
they won't be being taxed to pay for the roads?  If so, on what reasoning do
you base this assertion?

>         If they have to pay for all the roads they use and they have no mon
> to pay they can't get where they *NEED* to go.

That's nothing -- I have to pay for all the roads I *don't* use.  I never use
motorways, for example.

>                                            I'm not saying want to go, I'm
> saying *NEED* to go, ie they may be very ill, or pregnant or whatever. No
> I'll just let them stay there and die.

You seem to be assuming that ambulances are impossible in a free market.

> Again you miss the point. Of course they already pay bus fares and train
> fares. But if the roads (etc) are toll roads then the bus fare will include
> a toll fare - that is what I was getting at in the post above.

However, the bus fare will no longer include road tax, petrol tax or VAT. 
You have to look at the whole picture.

>                                                           In many
> articles you overlook simple little details like this, because it
> helps your argument.

Pot calls kettle black?

> > Unles you walk or go by bicycle (or, ok, magic carpet) then travel
> > already costs money. Since money is a measure of resource usage, and
> > resources are used when you travel, that's not entirely surprising is it?
> 
> Why is it that you assume walking or bicycling along a toll road is free?

Why is it you assume you need to have a built road (and therefore pay a toll)
in order to cycle or walk?

> I regard toll roads are more selfish, since it removes peoples individual
> freedom (that word again) of movement - unless of course they have that key
> ingredient MONEY.

Try not having any money for a year.  See how freely you can move.

> Do you really believe that vendors of products and services (such as health
> care) wouldn't just push their prices up (out of line with product cost)
> in order to soak up our extra disposable income?

They wouldn't all do it.  Unless there was a monopoly or a cartel.  And I
believe that part of what FoFP is suggesting is that there should be strong
action taken against monopolies and cartels.


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: bs_s516@neptune.kingston.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re:hoover US air travel offer
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:26:04 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Kingston Polytechnic
NNTP-Posting-Host: neptune.king.ac.uk


If you have to demonstrate to Hoover that you have already booked accommodation
before they will issue the tickets, what is the situation if you have access to
a timeshare apartment.  does anyone know?

thanks in advance

Tony Scott	South Bank University	SCOTTT@vax.sbu.ac.uk
				or	BS_S516@neptune.kingston.ac.uk
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:08:52 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <29320@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> I think it is unreasonable to use force on people unless it is to
> prevent them using force on others.

And that is the whole problem.

1. You seem to be using the word `force' in a very limited sense: as you said,
you think there has to be some sort of threat or violence involved. The rest of
us are using `force' to mean `compel', whether morally, physically or socially.
(Morally: we are forced not to murder; Physically: we are forced to queue by
those new barriers in the post office; Socially: we are forced to be thoughtful
of others)

2. In your sense of `force' you are entirely right. But that is moderate
pacifism not the libertarianism which you seem to espouse.

3. In our sense of `force' you are wrong. If you like we have agreed to a
social contract by staying in this country. Part of that social contract
involves being forced (compelled) to do things we are unwilling to do. For
example we are forced to pay tax. Much of the tax we pay is used to help those
who cannot help themselves: that is the welfare state we are so proud of. But
some of the tax we pay goes on defence spending: we are buying nuclear
submarines and expensive fast fighter aircraft. Some of us believe that is
wrong. But the social contract means that we are forced to pay all our tax. If
you don't like that you can campaign to change it, but don't expect tea and
sympathy if your suggestions are full of holes.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:01:43 GMT
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <29634@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> Resources are
> scarce in the sense that there are more people wanting things than there
> are things. So those resources have to be allocated somehow. The
> capitalist idea, which made the west richer than the rest of the world,
> says that you should trade your resources for the resources you want.
> Money is a fiction used to measure those resources and facilitate trade
> in them - a Pound Note is, if you like, a futures option on a certain
> level of resources.
> 
> Now, when the resources get allocated they get allocated to those
> pesrsons that they are worth the most to, that is those persons willing
> and able to trade the most other resources for them.
     ^^^^^^

And of course the poeple at the bottom of the pile are not able to trade for
anything, let alone the right to travel anywhere on a toll road, so you
remove their freedom, because they are unable to trade, because they have no
resources. I pointed this out in a previous followup to a post of yours about
the right of way to your house. Obviously there is no solution under the
libertarian ideal, since if there had been you would have replied.
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
 means to side with the powerful, not to be Neutral."
                                                     Quote by Freire.
                                                     Poster by OXFAM.
From: dhunt@infocom.UUCP (David Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:00:24 GMT
Organization: INFOCOM Public Unix Server, +44 [0] 734 340055
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Ian G Batten (igb@fulcrum.co.uk) wrote:
> In article <29507@castle.ed.ac.uk> benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge) writes
:
> > Well, no, not very helpful, but I think I'm right in saying these
> > companies are breaking the law. A stern official letter mentioning the
> 
> You're wrong.  The Mail Preference thingie has no legal status.


Well here is a suggestion, if they are sending to you info which has a 
FREEPOST reply address with it, then how about sending a BREEZE (??) BLOCK 
(one of those concrete blocks used in house building) wrapped in brown (or 
indeed christmas paper) to them under the FREEPOST address, a few of these 
and they will certainly not bother you again.

This is totally legal, as the Post Office can not refuse to deliver anything 
under 25Kgs as letter mail and of course a valid FREEPOST address does not 
require postage and must be accepted

--
dhunt@infocom.co.uk
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:49:05 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
> In article <29529@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> >snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
> >>*NEED* to go somewhere, and they haven't the resources (money to you and I)
> >>pay for it. Currently they can get in a car (assuming they have one) and dr
> >>it there. If they have to pay for all the roads they use and they have no m
> >>to pay they can't get where they *NEED* to go.
> > 
> > If they have no money, they don't have the money to run a car either.
> > Petrol must be paid for, as does car maintenance.
> 
> OK, lets say they have no car, make it easier. they still have no money.
> How do they get where they *NEED* to go.
> 
> Or, they have a car, or access to a car (and it has some petrol) and they nee
> to go RIGHT now, because they are ill. Answer the question.

Let's suppose there's a desperately ill orphan with no telephone, no
vehicles, and no legs.  How does it get to where it *NEEDS* to go in this
so-called free road transport system of yours?  Eh?!  Eh?!  Answer me that!!!


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:38:17 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk (Joe Sharkey) writes:
> In article <6q3TVB17w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
> >The profit on selling 100 LPs is larger than the profit on selling 10 CDs. 
> >If the customers really wanted LPs, there's no way the industry would be abl
> >to railroad them into buying CDs.
> 
> Pardon?  (Did I get it wrong?)
> 
> I expect the profit on selling *10* CDs roughly equals that on *100* LPs.
> When did you last see a magazine gie away an LP?

The cost of making a CD is 45p.  What's the cost of making an LP?  The
total profit on a CD is about two quid, of which about 70p goes to the
artist.  Or so George Michael says.  That's pure profit, once all
costs are taken into account.  I assume that everything apart from raw
manufacturing cost will be much the same for CD and LP.

> >> "Decent" CD players are 150-200 pounds....
> >Since when?  I can hear the difference between a #400 CD player and a #300 C
> >player, and it ain't subtle.  This indicates to me that a #400 CD player is
> >not near the top as far as quality is concerned.
> 
> (sigh...) Golden ears vs manufacturing.
> 
> This has been debated in double-blind tests for 20 years and more:
> 
>  -- The basic chipsets are the same
>  -- There are a limited number of D/A methods and chips.
>  -- "I don't care much distortion *you* find - it *sounds* better..."

I don't know quite what you're suggesting here.  I went to a hi-fi
dealer, suggested a price range, and he let me listen to a few CDs on
each of a number of CD players in that price range.  I picked the one
I thought sounded best, *then* he told me the prices.


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.

Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk (Joe Sharkey)
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Organization: Independent Network (UK)
Distribution: uk
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:41:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.095616.14121@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>with CD.  Tain't true.  Master tapes being made for CDs need a
>different style at the mixing console.  I attribute most of the
>apparent improvement in newer CDs to the fact that recording engineers
>have now learned the new style of mixing which the new medium needs.

Keep a modicum of compression on, so the dynamic range is around 60 dB or so -
and put it in the middle of the ~90 dB you have available.

No dropping into quantization noise, or (worse) overloading.

No?

>Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK

joe.
-- 
Joe Sharkey    joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk    ...!uunet!ibmpcug!jshark!joe
150 Hatfield Rd, St Albans, Herts AL1 4JA, UK    Got a real domain name
(+44) 727 838662          Mail or News (v32/v32bis): info@inet-uk.co.uk
From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:21:55 GMT
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <29529@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:
> snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
> 
> 
> [on toll roads..]
> 
>>*NEED* to go somewhere, and they haven't the resources (money to you and I) to
>>pay for it. Currently they can get in a car (assuming they have one) and drive
>>it there. If they have to pay for all the roads they use and they have no money
>>to pay they can't get where they *NEED* to go.
> 
> If they have no money, they don't have the money to run a car either.
> Petrol must be paid for, as does car maintenance.

OK, lets say they have no car, make it easier. they still have no money.
How do they get where they *NEED* to go.

Or, they have a car, or access to a car (and it has some petrol) and they need
to go RIGHT now, because they are ill. Answer the question.
 
>>I'm not saying want to go, I'm
>>saying *NEED* to go, ie they may be very ill, or pregnant or whatever. No
>>I'll just let them stay there and die.
> 
> There are people in that position now who don't own a car. What good is
> owning a slice of every road in the country to them? Will it help them
> in the position you've outlined above?

You have not answered my question. You keep on replying with questions which
are reduced to this freedom/force business you're so proud of.
 
>>Does anyone remember what happened last time taxes were reduced? And only
>>reduced by 10% from 50% to 40% / 2% from 27% to 25%. Can you imagine what'd
>>happen here if all taxes disappeared?
> 
> We'd get richer?

Missed the point. Boom - Bust would have been a good answer, we are
experiencing this right now.
> 
>>Do you really believe that vendors of products and services (such as health
>>care) wouldn't just push their prices up (out of line with product cost)
>>in order to soak up our extra disposable income? Do you really believe that?
> 
> If they had competition and no government legislation to protect
> them in the market, then raising their prices above those of their
> competitors would be business suicide.

Your faith astounds me. You were in this country the last 6 years or so weren't
you. I wouldn't say prices stayed very stable at all, and that was only a
modest reduction in taxes compared to what you advocate. The gap between poor
and rich gets larger and larger under your system, although I suppose even
one pound compared to zero pounds is infinity.
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

muso/unix joke: "which debugger do you use?"
                "I use dbx..."
                "Oh really, we use Dolby C..."
Motorola inside.
From: eset08@castle.ed.ac.uk (J Strobridge)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Bands on the run?
Summary: Tales of the conned
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:41:39 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Edinburgh University

Since this is a UK query I'm posting to this board rather than to the
world music.    I just wondered if anyone else has come up against this
recently in the rock music scene with other bands.   The same groups are
involved in each case.


Con 1)   London Brixton

In theory:  supposed to be an all-night rock session with 2 main bands
headlining.   Both are listed to appear twice - early evening and again
early morning c.3.00 am.   "Other guests" are mentioned as taking part.

In practice:  both headlining bands appear once in the early evening.  
Their gigs are over by 12.30 pm   One of the groups then sends members
of the band out into the audience to warn them that because of problems
they will not be coming back on stage again that night.   By 1.00 am *all*
the seating in the upper balcony is closed off, no-one is allowed
admission into this area and everyone is forced downstairs into the
standing-only dance area.   By 1.30 am the all night rock session has
been converted into an all night Rave.  From then until the close the
"other guests" turn out to be exclusively Acid House and Rave bands and
we are duly trapped there for the next 6 hours!


Con 2)  Glasgow

In theory:  2 headlining bands and "special guests" are billed to
appear.   Tickets are clearly labelled "show closes at 2.00 am".   This
time we have transport and arrange for it to return at 2.00 to collect
us. 

In practice:  the 2 headlining bands duly appear;  their gigs finish by
11.30 pm and the "special guests" are, of course, an Acid House band.  
They finish at 12.45 pm and immediately, without warning, the place is
swarming with Security guys throwing everyone out.   Our protests that
the tickets clearly say that the show ends at 2.00 are met by the calm
response of "Sorry luv. Then you've been conned by the Promotor".



So just what *is* going on here?   I'm getting tired of paying good
money only to lose half a gig on each occasion.    

Theories:   

1)  The Promotor/Management are doing this and the bands themselves 
	have no idea what is going on once their own sessions are 
	finished (possible - one of them is said to have had an
	argument with the management in London)

2)  The bands know precisely what is going on and are deliberately
	charging their fans excessively high ticket prices for what
	in effect is only a normal gig.


I *hope* it's not the latter I really do.   Does anyone else know of
similar experiences at other venues?


jill
From: sproven@cs.strath.ac.uk (Simon B Proven IE91)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:59:04 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <1992Dec14.132936.2830@lsl.co.uk> snail@lsl.co.uk writes:

>Why is it that you assume walking or bicycling along a toll road is free?

I'd say it was a pretty valid thing to say: the users should pay a charge
proportional to the damage done to the road (IMH).  For bikes this is
so tiny it'd be almost pointless to collect the toll.  Same argument for
walking except more so.

>If you want to keep all your money and not contribute to society you are, if
>not you are not. If you want to advocate systems that restrict peoples freedom
>of movement, then yes you are - this I find hard to believe since you have
>said in previous posts that you are a believer of the big brother state rearing
>it ugly head. Implement restriction of movement subtly with toll roads. Nice.

I don't honestly believe that motorways or other heavy roads contribute
anything to society.  Mobility can be achieved in ways which are far more
socially and environmentaly friendly than charging down the M6.  It is
selfish to build a road over someone's property, so that you can drive 
from Carlisle to Birmingham, when you could get a train which takes up
far less land space.  It is selfish to expect society to provide roads
for the minority that own cars (it certainly is a minority in Scotland)
by making life harder for the people who don't own cars, and then expect
them (the non car owners) to pay for the privelidge through taxes, costs
to industry that get passed on to the customer etc.

Why should people contribute to society for private transport purposes,
as opposed to public transport?  Public transport benifits society as
a whole, while private transport is something that only those with
money can afford anyway.  Private transport takes from society, so
car owners should pay society for the privelidge.

-- 
--Simon Proven sproven@cs.strath.ac.uk
  Health warning: being in a car can damage your health (BMA)
From: mjr@nyquist.cs.nott.ac.uk (Marcus Roberts)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Bands on the run?
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:10:36 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Communications Research Group

In article <29683@castle.ed.ac.uk>, eset08@castle.ed.ac.uk (J Strobridge) writes:
|> Con 1)   London Brixton
|> 
|> In theory:  supposed to be an all-night rock session with 2 main bands
|> headlining.   Both are listed to appear twice - early evening and again
|> early morning c.3.00 am.   "Other guests" are mentioned as taking part.

[...]

|> Con 2)  Glasgow
|> 
|> In theory:  2 headlining bands and "special guests" are billed to
|> appear.   Tickets are clearly labelled "show closes at 2.00 am".   This
|> time we have transport and arrange for it to return at 2.00 to collect
|> us. 
|> I *hope* it's not the latter I really do.   Does anyone else know of
|> similar experiences at other venues?
|> 
|> 
|> jill

Well, my experience comes from Rock City at Nottingham.  They have all-night
sessions here several times a year, for example an Alternative Halloween one
and a Christmas one.  They advertise about 4 to 6 bands who will be playing,
and the place opens at 9pm, and stays open until 6.00 am.  From my experience,
the place does stay open till 6.00, and the bands all play, only once each,
but spread out through the evening - at the Halloween bash, the last band 
played sometime around 4.00am.

The only problem is that the bars stop serving alchol at 2.00, but this is
more a licensing problem for the venue, and they keep on selling soft drinks
and food till the end.

All in all, I have really enjoyed my time at these all night things, and can
highly recommend the Rock City ones.

Marcus

-- 
"This golden age of communications
 Means everyone talks at the same time" - New Model Army
Marcus Roberts        Communications Research Group, Dept. of Computer Science,
mjr@cs.nott.ac.uk     University Park, Nottingham, NG7 2RD
From: pete@egh-qc.uucp (Pete Phillips)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: PPP/NNTP help required
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:40:57 GMT
Organization: Surgical Materials Testing Laboratory


Hi,

we are about to take an internet connection from demon systems for our
Sun Sparc II.

I know we need to use PPP or SLIP, and have been advised that PPP is
the best.  Thus I have taken ppp-sunos4.1.pl6.tar.Z and the memory
leak patch from ftp.demon.co.uk.  

A couple of questions:

1 - Is there anyone who has a Sparc connection to demon already who
can give us a bit of help if we run into trouble ?

2 - We intend to use INN for our news feed, as there was some talk
on the net earlier on this year that INN was faster than other nntp
implementations. Is this still the case ?  Has anyone got INN running
on their Sparc with PPP - if so any chance of some hand-holding if
required ?

Reply by email please.

Pete

-- 
Pete Phillips, Surgical Materials Testing Lab, Bridgend, S. Wales.
UUCP   :  uknet!egh-qc!pete            DOMAIN :  pete@egh-qc.co.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"SCIENCE: A way of finding things out and then making them work.