HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W M1006 vs. M4006
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:05 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9210060201.AA22252@unix.cie.rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#I have been looking at the Smith & Wesson M1006 stainless steel autoloader
#in some of my reference books and noticed that it has a 9-round magazine.
#The same book shows that the M4006 in .40 S&W has an 11-round magazine.
#What gives?  We all know that the .40 "Short and Wimpy" is the same diameter
#as the 10mm, and can be fired in it.  So why does the M1006 hold two less
#rounds?  Is it because they're heavier and the springs can't handle it?  I'm
#confused...

My guess would be that the 10mm magazine is closer to a "single-column"
design in order to keep the grip circumference smaller than a full
double-column design.  (The longer 10mm cartridge adds length to the
grip, which needs width removed somehow to keep from getting too fat.)

It would certainly have nothing to do with magazine springs being able
to handle the weight of the cartidges.
From: craig@osf.org (Craig Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Durable finishes for long guns
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:35:17 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

I've a Remington 700.  It is in good condition, but I have noticed
that the black finish on the barrel is easily scratched off.

I'd like to take it into the woods where it is likely to get scratched
and mis-handled.

Are there any companies who do a very good job on putting on some sort
of non-reflective very durable (ie scratch & rust resistant) finish?

What are the recommended finishes?

-- 
Craig Peterson, n8ino	craig@mainstream.com
PO Box 1120, Merrimack, NH  03054-1120
Unless otherwise noted opinions expressed are not those
of my employers.
From: lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: afit.1992Oct9.110458.3416
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

In article <1992Oct8.052300.20914@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
#Just to play the devil's advocate here for a while: Maybe.  However, 
#I played with the lastest Browning High Power, and they all seem to
#have the nice "action shooting" safety lever, large, clicky, and
#light.  Well, it may be great for the mortal dangers awaiting one from
#the hands of paper targets at a local range, but I for one much prefer
#the small, non-clicky, smooth to unlock and heavy to lock safety on
#the Argentinian clone of the High Power.  It seems designed for
#real-life use.  Also, it shoots great and costs *much* less than
#original.  I would be happy to learn of any negative experiences
#with it because I intent to buy it, so any factual warning will be
#appreciated. 

This is true.  I replaced the very small, quiet safety on my 1980-ish
(real) High Power with the low profile, ambidextrous extended safeties of the
new High Power's.  I had thought previously that I had no problem getting
the small safety off until I started shooting combat matches and found out
just how often I missed it during the draw.  The new safety does click,
but if you move it up slowly, it can be pretty quiet.  Even if you got
a new High Power and wanted the smaller safety, you can do that.  They ARE
easily interchangable.

I personally don't think the Argentinian clones are even close in terms
of finish or functionality, and I wouldn't have the confidence in them
to shoot the +P+ level loads I would in the Belgian gun.  Still, if $'s
are really limited and there was no way I could get the real thing, I
would probably pop for the clone, polish the internal parts myself and
just limit my shooting to standard pressure loads.

-- 
Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Tool Survey
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:18 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

I'd like to do a tool survey among the readers of this group.
Email your responses, and I'll post a summary.

List the tools you use in the following categories

A) Reloading
	1) Reloading press, type, brand
	2) Dies, type, cal, brand
	3) Lubricant, type, brand
	4) Powder scale, type, brand
	5) Tumbler, type, brand
	6) Media, type, brand
	7) Case trimmer, type, brand
	8) Misc

B) Bullet Casting and swaging
	1) Pot, type, brand
	2) Molds, type, cal, brand
	3) Sizing press, type, brand
	4) Alloys used
	5) Lubricants
	6) Swage, type, brand
	7) Jackets, cal, brand
	8) Misc

C) Cleaning tools and accessories
	1) Solvents, type, brand
	2) Rods, type, brand
	3) Brushes, type, brand
	4) Patches, material, source
	5) Lubricants, type, brand
	6) Protective greases, type, brand
	7) Misc

D) Gunsmithing tools
	1) Lathe, type, brand
	2) Press, type, brand
	3) Torch, type, brand
	4) Specialized screwdrivers, type, brand
	5) Files, type, brand
	6) Specialized wrenches, type, brand
	7) Engraving tools, type, brand
	8) Woodworking tools, type, brand
	9) Checkering tools, type, brand
       10) Bluing tank and chemicals, type, brand
       11) Wood finishing chemicals, type, brand
       12) Misc

E) Measuring equipment
	1) Micrometers
	2) Calipers
	3) Scales if different from powder scale
	4) Go-no go gauges
	5) Chronographs
	6) Misc

F) Misc

Since many of you are very involved in shooting and amateur gunsmithing,
you may have tools in every category. Those who don't, list only what
you have. If you have more than one item, lathe for example, list on
a separate line. My categories aren't exhaustive and include a misc entry 
for things you use that aren't on the list.

Thanks

Gary

[MODERATOR: Off line, please...]
From: ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 10mm/.41 Rem mag for dangerous game
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: drutx.21480



A question for the net.
Living up in the Rockies of Colorado as I and my wife do, it seems we have
recently been chossen as winners in the Colorado Mountain Lion adopt a family
program.  Bottom line, one of these big cats a few nights ago sat in the woods
near our driveway and declared we're on its turf by growling.  Scarred my wife
half to death.  

Any way, we have since taken precautions to protect ourselves and our sled dogs. 
I think the bug guy (gal?) was drawn in by the scent of a new puppy (yum-yum).

Well neither my wife or myself go out of the house at night with out a handgun strap
ped on.  Hers is a S&W mod 57 .41 Rem mag with W-W 175gr Silvertips, mine a
Stainless Delta Elite 10mm with Hornaday 180gr XTP full pressures.  

My question is this.  Has any body used either of these loads on dangerous game
and if so with what result?

In case you think I overreacted, remember that cats have killed at least three
humans in Colorado in the last five years and many dogs, horses, etc.

Well any way, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Larry

Self defense is the state of affairs wherein your assailant is in more danger
from you than you are from him.
J. Cooper
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: reloading 9x18 Makarov
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:15:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.71545
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


##From article <9210140047.AA08737@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov>,
#	by bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz):
## 				The problem is the bullets.
## 			I think the best
## thing to do is probably to just buy the cheap Chinese ammo and blast away
## with it.  I didn't want to run corrosive ammo through the gun so I went
## to some pains to avoid it, but there may be non-corrosive 9x18 on the market
## now.
## 
## John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)

The Norinco ammo I just bought claims to be non-corrosive.  The guy who sold it
to me said it was non-corrosive, and the biggest words on the boxes are the
words "NON-CORROSIVE".  This is in both 7.62x39 and 9x18 Mak.  The distributor
claimed they are boxer primed, but this is of little use (I think) since they
are steel cased, not brass cased.  I just got 1050 rounds (half case) of the
9mm and 600 (half case) of the 7.62.  I am obviously going to do a bit of
shooting this weekend :) so if anybody wants to know about reliability, I will
be happy to report.  Two friends of mine split a case of 9x19 (1000) rounds,
so I will be able to report on that as well.  The 9x19 is 124 grain, and the
distibuter said it is a very hot load (over-penetration special, I guess, since
it is all FMJ).

John Cronin
-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Noisy Safety Switch
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:13 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

mb2i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marvin H. Blachman) writes:

#I recently bought a Remington 870 to use for deer hunting. I really like
#the gun except the safety makes a "relatively" loud click when I release
#it. Is there anything I can do to quiet it down?

	The easiest thing to do is wear it out.  You have basically the
same safety as I do on my Model 48 Remington, and all I did was move
the safety back and forth for a few hours a night while watching TV,
reading the newspaper, etc...  Gradually it loses it's stiffness and
clicking.  If you use no lubrication it will happen much faster.

	Now then, one modification I did that makes it a whole lot easier
to shoot is to cut out an oval of dime-thickness metal.  The oval is about
0.3" wide and 0.5" long, well-rounded, and epoxied to the right side of
the safety switch.  When I carry the gun, I carry with it pointing to the
left and keep a fingertip on the safety, holding it to the safe position.
When I go to shoot, my finger lies alongside the trigger guard and the
tip touches the trigger.  The body of my finger will push in the safety,
so any time my fingertip is on the trigger I've pushed the safety to the
fire position.

	This is not the safest thing in the world to have.  However, it
does make one damned aware that, whenever your finger is on the trigger,
you are capable of firing and nothing will stop you.

	Don Baldwin saw my modification when he was here a few weeks ago.
Don, if you remember it perhaps you'd care to comment?

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can airgun scope be used on centerfire rifle?
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:13:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.9210161520.AA08959
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

In article <26817@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Alan K Biocca,
biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov writes:
#The manufacturer's specifications for airgun scopes include recoil in
both
#directions, as well as peak impulses that are higher than for
powderburners.
#I've known folks who have destroyed normal rifle scopes on pellet guns,
so
#it can happen.  It depends on the particular rifle's recoil
characteristics
#and the scope's internal configuration.
#
#There should be no problem going the other way - airgun scopes should
have no
#problems with powderburner recoil.

Now I found another problem using an air gun scope on a centerfire rifle:
I can't get it to zero in to 50 yards! It ran out of elevation clicks!
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.15OCT199210161445
Organization: who knows

breck@aim.com (Breck Beatie) writes...
#Just thought I'd add that the current NRA national record for 1000 yards
#Any Rifle / Iron Sights, held by Corcoran Tyson was fired with a 243 Win.
#At least that's what the fellow pulling Mr. Tyson's target that day told me.
#I haven't asked Mr. Tyson myself.

I thing the target puller was pulling your string ;-)

According the 1992 National Matches' program, the Wimbledon record (any sight,
any rifle at 1000 yd) are held by Tedders, Johnson, Gustin and Jackson with
200-15x. Of course we have no idea what rifles they used, since the NRA thinks
that these detail are unimportant to the unwashed masses :-(
From: jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:01:49 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


The movie was called BLUE THUNDER.  The hellicopter was a modified French
Gazelle.  I do believe that most of that technology exists.  The thermal
imaging was done through a window with the curtains drawn.  It's more likely
that thermal imaging would work through windows better that through a wall.

Later,
Josh A. Grossman
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Spent brass lead hazard... test kit found lead
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:53:20 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

#.......  Handling a lot of brass, even clean
#brass, ought to warrant a hand wash too, since naked brass registers
#with a lead content.

A few questions/thoughts:
I wonder if some other metal other than lead can trigger your test strips.
Cartridge brass, which is CDA 260, is 70% Cu and 30% Zn.  Lead would be a weak-
ening contaminant and shouldn't be found in any significant quantity.  Sometimes
1/2% or more of lead is added to brass to make it easier to machine but I don't 
think that is the case here.  Does anyone in the group know someone at Olin?
Olin should be able to tell us what the maximum allowable lead contamination
of CDA 260 is.  Also, I wonder if lead which is bound up in brass is free
enough to be a threat to people.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 for IPSC
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: flubber.9210081323.AA12358
Organization: Informatik Club Uni Zurich

In article <pf!p92p.pauly@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#
#(just got a couple cases of Federals, but haven't loaded them yet), with the
#200 gr. lead SWC, and 5.7 grains of 231.  This is actually down from the 6.1
#I used to use.  Supposedly, the 6.1 grain load is Mickey Fowler's combat 
#load.  I found that these were excessively hot, though, and well beyond any
#loading data I've ever found for this particular round.  In fact, 5.7 is
#pretty much the max I've seen.  My experience has been that this particular
#combination is easy to deal with (recoil-wise), and very accurate.  I've used
#Bear Creek and Western Nevada bullets, both with good results.
#
what type of springs do you use?


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Lies and statistics (was: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.)
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:55:57 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Oct5.170759.12711@news.yale.edu> watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#Other studies have shown that carreer criminals generally prefer to be
#armed with comparable weapons used by police.  Back in the days when
#most police had .38 special revolvers, that was the choice of criminals.
#Now that police are moving to high capacity 9mm semi-autos, the crooks
#want them too.
#The obvious conclusion: disarm the police and the crooks will follow :-)

One must be careful when interpreting statistical correlations;
for example, a correlation between smoking and lung cancer does
not in itself prove that smoking causes cancer -- it might be that
lung cancer causes an irritation that smoking soothes, or that
both of them are related to some other more fundamental cause.

In the case of criminal/police weapon preferences, to a large
extent the correlation can be explained by a combination of
what is readily available on the market (including what is
stolen from gun stores, in the case of criminal weapons), and
effectiveness of various weapons with regard to criteria that
would not be too different for police vs. criminals, such as
availability of ammo, man-stopping power, portability, etc.
I don't think that in general either segment of the population
is trying to mimic the other, although to some degree one does
hear arguments that the police need weapons "at least as
powerful as those in the hands of criminals".  While that may
not be a particularly logical argument, it's the sort of thing
that seems to make sense to a lot of public leaders.
From: mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need tips for gun cleaning...
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:23:19 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD

I have a Ruger GP-100 revolver in stainless steel.  I follow the
instructions for cleaning, but I can't seem to get it as clean as it
should be.  This is especially apparent where the cylinder meets the
barrel.  I'll summarize my technique below so that more experienced
people can offer criticism and suggestions:

		Using the equipment in my Kleen-Bore kit, 
		
		Use the wire brush with the supplied cleaning oil
		  to scrub the inside of the barrel and the 6 holes
		  in the cylinder
	
		Then, I use the patches (with the solvent) and rub the
		  inside of the barrel and cylinder until the patches
		  come out clean

		And lastly, I push a clean patch (without solvent)
		  through the bore and cylinder to remove excess 
		  lubrication.

Also, I then wipe the outside of the revolver with a silione cloth.

So, what would rec.guns readers suggest that I do otherwise?  Is there a
tool I can use to scrub between the cylinder and barrel?  Also, how
clean does the gun have to be?

Thank you in advance for any tips...

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:23:43 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1992Oct11.010956.22689@news.columbia.edu> pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet) writes:
#The movie was "Blue Thunder" with Roy Scheider (sp?)  I think that there is
#a difference between the technology existing and being as refined as presented
#by Hollywood.
#
#I heard that the Whisper Mode was a complete fabrication.  My brother, who
#works at Bell Helicopters, has not heard of any Stealth helicopters (or
#if he has, he isn't talking)

An article in "Machine Design" several years ago described such a system.
Loudspeakers would output the same sound signal as the helicopter except
180 degress out of phase, this results in a large noise reduction of the
craft.  It's not perfect of course, but works quite well as I recall.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: canders%lacerta.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: POLYTECH vs NORINCO
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.-lhp_ya
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Could any of you fellow assault weapon experts please reply?

Is PolyTech a different gun from Norinco?
What designates a "Legend" or National Match?
Is a MAK 90 a "Legend" from Norinco?
Are "stamped Polytech guns equal or better in quality than Norinco stamped
guns?
Why do Yugoslavian AK's cost more?
Are there more Polytech's than Norinco's in the U.S.

Thanks alot,

Cliff
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 788
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:06 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Oct5.143633.17004@amc.com> reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
#The Remington 788 is one of those designs (by Mike Walker, I believe)
#where inexpensive translated into simple and quick rather than
#cheesy and flakey.  It has absolutely no relationship to any other
#Remington rifle.  It is a rear-locking-lug rifle, which is not
#normally a great thing, but it has 9 locking lugs and a very herky
#cylindrical receiver, so it works out fine.
#
[deleted]
#
#I am told that part of the model's accuracy comes from a very
#quick lock time, an outgrowth of Walker's design simplicity.
#Triggers range from not-great to ptui.

The accuracy secrets of the 788 stem from it's massive cylindrical
receiver that is very rigid and easy to sleeve and bed, and from 
the quick lock time of the firing mechanism. A better trigger is
a must for bench work since the factory trigger is creepy.

This gun isn't particularly handsome, and the magazine is cheezy,
but if you're building a single shot bench rifle, you won't find 
a better starting point than a 788 receiver. There have been many
articles on fitting this action with a sleeve, with better triggers,
match barrels, and target stocks. Too bad it's out of production.

Gary
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.hsrpvga
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <1992Oct14.150818.11585@aim.com>,
        breck@aim.com (Breck Beatie) writes:
#
#Just thought I'd add that the current NRA national record for 1000 yards
#Any Rifle / Iron Sights, held by Corcoran Tyson was fired with a 243 Win.
#At least that's what the fellow pulling Mr. Tyson's target that day told me.
#I haven't asked Mr. Tyson myself.
#-- 

	I suppose he was firing the new "VLD" 6mm bullets - which brings up
  the question:  I've seen these new "Very Low Drag" bullets discussed
  several places, but I've never seen them for sale.  Are these bullets
  available to civilian handloaders?  Are they available in 7mm as well as
  6mm?

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:39:35 GMT
Organization: N/I

In article <1992Oct5.082904.7268@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
[ ... ]
#	One should "tap" or push the back of the slide (to attempt to
#seat it fully into battery) only with extreme care, and with very
#little pressure. If the slide won't go into battery with only very
#slight forward pressure, forcing it there with more pressure is likely
#to create problems of greater magnitude than getting rid of whatever
#is (not quite) in the chamber by employing "tap-rack-bang".

A fellow at a local range was shooting a Glock with handloads that
wouldn't always chamber properly, and would ram the slide home with
the heel of his hand and try again, whenever he got a misfire.  An
hour or so of this, and he'd managed to knock off the rear sight.
(It's made of high-strength polymer, of course, and dovetailed into
the slide in the usual way.  A metal one might have taken it, but ...)