HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: Fun things to do near airports in Oregon, Washington, and BC?
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.161738.16425@telebit.com>, brent@greatcircle.com (Brent Chapman) writes:
|> ...  We're planning on flying from Palo Alto up to Portland, Olympia, ...
|> 
|> Anybody have any suggestions for things to do and places to go in that
|> general area?  Preferably near the airport; we'll probably rent cars in
|> Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, but probably not elsewhere. 

Three suggestions for Oregon:
(1) Florence (VFR airport on Oregon coast midway between North Bend and
    Newport).  I can't really recommend the airport.  It's a paved strip,
    but it could be in better condition (unless they've resurfaced it
    since I was last there); and the winds get pretty squirrely as you
    get down level with the dunes.  However, the airport is only about
    10 blocks from the Florence embarcadero with nice shops and pretty
    good restaurants (be sure to try the clam chowder at Mo's).

(2) Newport (also on the Oregon coast, good IFR airport with crossing
    runways to avoid any crosswind problems).  Here you have a bit of
    a hike (3 miles) but that will get you to Newport's new aquarium
    which just opened this last May.  At the risk of starting a heated
    debate, I will state that the aquarium is every bit as good as the
    Monterey Bay aquarium which you may be more familiar with.  The sea
    otters are great.  It's well worth the stop.

(3) Sunriver (mountain resort on the east side of the Cascades ~15 miles
    south of Redmond).  The airport is on the resort (good paved strip).
    Bicycles can be rented; I think there are canoes or paddleboats
    available at the marina; the stables offer horseback rides; two 18
    hole golf courses; tennis; restaurant at the lodge.  All activities
    are in easy walking distance, but the resort provides shuttle service.
    I think the shuttle service is mandatory for flyins to keep people
    from crossing the runway.

All of the above stops should be an easy one-hop from Palo-Alto.  Post a
trip report to let us know what you think.

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard       voice: (503) 750-3246
Corvallis, OR         FAX:   (503) 750-3788
From: donovanh@sptekwv1.wv.tek.com (Donovan Hammer;685-2499;60-850;;sptekwv1)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Increased ASI entering thermal (was: thermaling technique (SOARING))
Keywords: thermal vario
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:31:19 GMT
Reply-To: user@host.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Inc, Wilsonville, OR


Luke Whitaker writes about  Scot Raymond Harris' posting:

> Tyler Perkins has described his impressions of the vorticity around thermals,
> ie hypothesis (2).  Do other experienced pilots think that sudden decreased  
> IAS is just as likely as increased IAS on entering a thermal ? Can we all 
> have the benefit of your experience!
-- 

I am both a "glider guider" and a  tow pilot.  I never see this effect as much in
a glider as I do when towing.  But, I usually see an increase of 5 mph when I enter
a thermal and a decrease of 5mph when I enter sink.  The glider is too suceptable
to other variables for me to establish a good correlation to ASI changes while
entering lift or sink.  But in the tow plane, I can hold constant power and constant
attitude plus the heavier wind loading makes the other variables less domonant.  In
fact, when I first started to see this fluxiation in ASI readings I tried to lower
or raise the tow planes nose to compensate.  The result was that I started chasing
airspeed.  I later figured out that it was much better to hold constant attitude
and ignore ASI variations while entering lift or sink.

                                      Don Hammer

 ==================================== ========================
| Donovan Hammer, Principal Engineer |                        |
| Tektronix                          |                        |
|        / Computer Graphics Group   | Save the whales,...    |
| PO Box 1000, MS 60-850             | collect the whole set. |
| Wilsonville, Ore. 97070            |                        |
| phone - (503) 685-2499             |                        |
| fax   - (503) 682-1500             |                        |
| email - donovan.hammer@TEK.COM     |                        |
 ==================================== ========================

Return-Received-To: donovan.hammer@tek.com
From: mtc@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mark Cousins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harnesses (Was: Re: Cessna sholdr harn review (BAS))
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:09:05 GMT
Organization: HP General Systems Division

Most of the Cessnas I fly are missing that nylon bushing too.  Yet another
solution I saw once is the use of a cable tie.  Get one of the right width and
wrap it around the peg on the lap belt, snug it up, trim off the tail, and
voila! new bushing.

The ideas for heat-shrink tubing and elastic (gum?) bands are intriguing.

Mark
--
Mark Cousins                Hewlett-Packard Co.        mtc@hpsemc.cup.hp.com
HP-UX VAB programs    19055 Pruneridge Ave., MS 46T5
(408) 447-4659             Cupertino, CA  95014          FAX: (408) 447-4364
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison)
Subject: Re: Suit filed against Bell Helicopter
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:08:18 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Jul22.232437.2017@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com wrote:
> ...
> |> If, in a case like this where there is no reason to suspect a defendant,
> |> and assuming no culpability is found, the plaintiff should be made to
> |> pay the defendant's legal fees.  This would go a long way to restoring
> |> some sanity to the system.
> 
> Unfortunately, I suspect it is often the case that the plaintiff does not
> have sufficient resources to pay their own legal fees (taken up on a
> continguency basis) much less those of the defendants.  Perhaps a better
> solution would be to have the plaintiff's LAWYER pay the legal fees of an
> innocent defendant.

Right, but the *threat* of having to even try to cover the defendant's legal
fees would do much to force people to confine the targets of such suits to
defendants that might reasonably be found to be at fault in a court of law.

This is, I believe (IANAL), the way it works in Canada, which is part of the
reason Piper is planning to move there.
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:12686 eunet.aviation:10
From: mct@praxis.co.uk (Martyn Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation
Subject: Re: Airline Safety Review
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:35:02 GMT
Organization: Praxis, Bath, U.K.

andy@raft.spider.co.uk (Andy Davis) writes:
: The snag is that an aircraft flight deck
:is not the place to be cluttered with computers saying "Are you sure?"
:to every command input.  An even more insidious implication is that the
:computer only has to say "are you sure?" to the commands which seem
:implausible or dangerous to it - now, the machine is making decisions to
:question things on a basis which is non-obvious to the pilot.


The A320 "knew" the intended destination. It's systems "knew" the location
of the aircraft. It therefore "knew" that the chosen descent mode would lead
to terrain impact some distance from the runway. It also "knew" how soon
that would happen.

An alert co-pilot would wait long enough to be sure that this wasn't a
temporary maneuver, then ask the pilot what (s)he was doing. If the
automatics are taking the degree of control they currenmtly have, is it too
much to ask that they behave like an alert co-pilot?
-- 
Martyn Thomas, Praxis plc, 20 Manvers Street, Bath BA1 1PX UK.
Tel:	+44-225-444700.   Email:   mct@praxis.co.uk
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: P-38 out of the Ice!
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:11:08 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In <l7dfmtINNrqu@west.west.sun.com> markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe):
> Wait just one minute.  You can't just casually mention that you were in
> Antarctica, dug a long crashed airplane out of the ice, repaired it in the
> field, and flew it home!  You can't possibly leave us dangling like this!

There was a really nice story about this in a past issue of Air & Space.
About 2 or 3 years back by now.  BTW, the recovered C-130 was on the airshow
circuit last year.  I saw it at Rockford IL (the same weekend as the Dayton
airshow).

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: United flight's cargo door?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:25:53 GMT

joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison) writes:

>The Turkish DC-10 was not taken out by the loss of the cargo door directly;
>instead the pressure differential between the pressurized cabin and the
>now-depressurized cargo area under the cabin caused the floor to sag.
>The control cables run through the floor, and the sag was enough to bind
>the controls to the point where the pilots lost control.  This was a very
>early model of the DC-10; a similar accident occured with a prototype.
>Later models included a beefed-up floor to prevent this problem.

The 747s (and I suspect all large birds now) have blowout panels which
are designed to relieve the stress caused by excessive pressure diffrentials
between the passenger cabin and the cargo bays.  The UA 747 which was the
subject of the start of this thread was equipped with the panels; the
NTSB report noted that the panels were found in the open position.

Joe Morris
From: green@rwja.umdnj.edu (Cliff Green)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Central Jersey flying clubs?
Summary: should I start flying again, and where's a good place to do so
Keywords: flying clubs starting over
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:58:05 GMT
Distribution: rec.aviation
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

After lurking here in r.a for a few months, I can feel the juices
starting to flow again.  I haven't flown (you know - been in the
left seat) for too many years, and wonder if there are any clubs
in the Central Jersey area I could look into.  If it helps to orient,
I work in Piscataway (Middlesex county) and live in Fanwood (Union
county).  Anyone willing to email me some names/numbers to start
with?

advTHANKSance,

Cliff Green
908-463-4436
UMDNJ


-- 
Clifford Green               Internet:   green@rwja.umdnj.edu
Academic Computing Services     voice:   908-463-4436
UMDNJ-RWJMS                       fax:   908-463-5252
#include <fineprint.h>
From: gerry@hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Gerry Baumgartner)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Looking for F-4 Story
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:52:49 GMT
Organization: Harris Computers Systems Division, Fort Lauderdale,FL

Hope someone can help.  I'm looking for a story that was posted on this forum
sometime ago.  It was about an F-4 being guided in on a GCA approach.  The
aircraft had battle damage and had an unsafe gear indication.  The GCA
controller visually verified gear down (at night) when it really wasn't.  The
aircraft landed on its belly and started swerving on the runway.  The pilot, 
sensing the situation applied full afterburner and became airborne again.  The
happened about 3 or 4 times, with the plane loosing bits an pieces of wing,
etc, until it ran low on fuel and had to ditch in the ocean.  I think the story
ends with the whereabouts of the GCA controller being unknown.  

I have checked with the 2 people I thought most likely to have this story,
Robert Dorsett and Dan Flak, and neither have it.  If anyone out there has it
or knows the whereabouts of it, could you please post or e-mail me?  Thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry Baumgartner                | Internet: gerry@ssd.csd.harris.com 
Harris Computer Systems Division | UUCP    : uunet!hcx1!gerry 
Fort Lauderdale FL 33309         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joel@cfctech.cfc.com (Joel Lessenberry)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: emergency AD 92-15-16 Any one else?
Summary: How do you comply if you don't have to.
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:09:02 GMT
Organization: Chrysler Financial Corp., Southfield, MI


	I just received Emergency AD 92-15-16 in the mail which
states that I cannot fly my plane until I examine the carb 
float and prove that it was not manufactured in 10/91.

	Since my plane is 15 years old, and since I have owned 
it since 10/91, and since I know that no work has been done on
the carb.... can I simply state so in the log???

	Or do I have to hire a mechanic to look at the thing?

		joel	
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison)
Subject: Re: Fun things to do near airports in Oregon, Washington, and BC?
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:38:35 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Jul24.161738.16425@telebit.com> brent@greatcircle.com wrote:
> Elizabeth and I have a 172 reserved for a week in mid August.  We're
> planning on flying from Palo Alto up to Portland, Olympia, Seattle, and
> Vancouver, then back, with whatever other interesting stops along the way
> strike our fancy.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions for things to do and places to go in that
> general area?  Preferably near the airport; we'll probably rent cars in
> Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, but probably not elsewhere. 
> 
> Any suggestions on places to stay or avoid?
> 
> At Seattle, I had planned on flying into Boeing Field.  Is there any kind
> of Boeing museum or exhibit or anything like that there?  Any suggestions
> on which airport to use in the other metro areas?
> 

The Museum of Flight is indeed at Boeing Field. The static displays are
pretty rstandard (though they have an aerocar and an SR-71, which
is a nice contrast) but the history of Boeing and commercial aviation
in the Red Barn (where Boeing started) is very interesting.

August 7,8,9 is the Abbotsford Airshow (Abbotsford is just north of the
US border and east of Vancouver BC) which you might either want to avoid
or attend (you can fly in early in the day) if you're in that area at that 
time.  

Have fun!
From: arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: learning to fly
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:30:33 GMT
Reply-To: arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
Organization: Columbia University

I am thinking of learning to fly fixed wing aircraft and would like suggestions
on where to learn in the New York City (preferably Long Island) area.
Also any general suggestions and estimated full cost of obtaining a pilots
license, different types of license etc.
Thank you in advance.
Aaron

Aaron Wininger                               Columbia Plasma Physics Laboratory
arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu                                 Columbia University
wininger@cuplvx.ap.columbia.edu                              New York, NY 10027
      'That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.'  -Nietzche
From: jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jer/ Eberhard)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:57:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Oshkosh anyone?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss) writes:


> Ever hopeful, I am looking for a flight to Oshkosh.  My previous flight
> got canceled, so here I am...

> Does anyone want or need a pilot or passenger to Oshkosh?  Anyone from
> California willing to pick someone up along the way?  

Brian told me he is willing to help with expenses and piloting.  :-)

I'll bet he would even host a RON (remain over night) for the
aircraft and crew picking him up.  :-)

> Help!!

Yes, help bring a fellow rec.aviatior to OSH!
Brian really needs to go... he has been working much to hard lately!

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Rauchfuss (Smokefoot)  "... the world could change in the blink
> brian@hpfcbdr.fc.hp.com           of an eye."  303 229-4753 WORK-HP

Jer/ Eberhard (I'm going commercial this year).
From: aland@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Aland Adams)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:56:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: LK10's, TG-2's etc. (Soaring)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

re: The TG-3

I don't have any experience in these ships but I will relay a
small anecdote or two.

It turns out that during the 60's and early 70's Gus Brigleb
used TG-3s for training at El Mirage, CA.  At that time my
Mom was learning to fly there.  She still talks about how
it used to take her both arms and a knee to get enough
strength to roll the ship in and out of turns.

Also Ross Brigleb was known to carry a long stick at times.
You see, there is quite some distance between the front and
back seats in a TG-3.  As a matter of fact it is not possible
to reach the pilot in the front from the back.  Ross had 
experiences where students would freeze up on the stick.  So
he would use the stick to "tap" the student and get them to let
go and then he could get them out of whatever maneuver they
had blundered into.

I'm not sure I'd want to use TG-3s for primary training.  Although
the LK-10 seems to be a much nicer machine.

Aland Adams
LS 6-b "AA"
From: donovanh@sptekwv1.wv.tek.com (Donovan Hammer;685-2499;60-850;;sptekwv1)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Glider test flight
Keywords: glider
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:02:17 GMT
Reply-To: user@host.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Inc, Wilsonville, OR


 Richard Larsen writes:

> Next I flew the SZD 51-1. This was the first solo fiberglass sailplane I have
> flown. It was intimidating but my takeoff was not too bad. Just a little PIO.
> I did a shallow stall, steep banked turns, and a dive at 90 kts. A thunderstorm
> prevented me from finding any lift so my flight was short. The landing was fair. 
> For a Schwizer jockey it was intimidating but I suppose it was easy to handle as
> fiberglass slippers go. The ld is 35 and vne is 118 kts. It is rated for acrobatics
> and is AFFORDIBLE. Pric

I own an SZD-51-1 and I think that it's the best thing for the dollar that's been
around for some time.  It's an aircraft that's affordable and has reasonable
performance and handling.  Its brand new 35:1 will keep up with many older 38:1
(which due to age are not 38:1 anymore). The SZD-51-1 will work light lift better than
nearly any glider that I've thermaled with.  It is more than competitive in Sports
class (the one I have came in second place in the regionals down in So. California a 
year ago - so I've been told).

Contruction is good and it has favorable acceptance from members of my glider club.
After the Solaire ad in SOARING, a few of the club members have mentioned considering
buying one.  For about $30,000 you can have a brand new glider with trailer.  If you
partner with some one else you'll have a brand new glider for less than it would cost
to get a 25 year old glider with about the same performance.  It's easy enough to fly
so as to make it simplier to match yourself to a partner of almost any experience level.
The SZD-51-1 is along the lines of an up dated GROB 102 Club with better min. sink numbers
(about 18%-20% better if you can believe the SOARING DIRECTORY).  It's different from
a G-102 in that it's a tail dragger.

Forgive the excitment, but after so much gloom and doom about the availability of gliders,
the SZD-51-1 and SZD-55-1 (not to forget the SZD-48-3 and others) have given some glimmer
of hope.

-- 
                                       Don Hammer

 ==================================== ========================
| Donovan Hammer, Principal Engineer |                        |
| Tektronix                          |                        |
|        / Computer Graphics Group   | Save the whales,...    |
| PO Box 1000, MS 60-850             | collect the whole set. |
| Wilsonville, Ore. 97070            |                        |
| phone - (503) 685-2499             |                        |
| fax   - (503) 682-1500             |                        |
| email - donovan.hammer@TEK.COM     |                        |
 ==================================== ========================

Return-Received-To: donovan.hammer@tek.com
From: per@front.se
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Prop Skid (was:Bad month at the airport)
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:01:06 MET
Distribution: world
Organization: Front Capital Systems AB, Sweden

In article <1992Jul16.190103.2308@peck.com>, geoff@peck.com (Geoff
Peck) writes:

> Blockage of airflow to the rudder is exceptionally unlikely.  This
> accident usually has the conclusion "Loss of directional control -- pilot
> error," or something like that, in the report if one is issued.  Most
> probably, the student simply didn't apply enough right rudder, and the
> aircraft turned left.  Remember p-factor?  This is a common student error
> on soft-field takeoffs, and is one of the reasons I don't in general have
> my private students do soft-field takeoffs solo until relatively late in
> the game -- when I know that they can do them properly.


I had a similar expeience a few years back, when I has about 100 hours
in The Book.

On this beautiful winter day, the runway was covered by a thin layer
of clear ice.

(Welcome to Sweden, where we have polar bears roaming the city streets
at night, and elks using the runways as gathering places.)

When I applied full throttle for takeoff, the cherokee veered sharply
to the left and started a wild skid. Wheee!!

Although I routinely applied a little pressure on the right rudder, I
must have, equally routinely, relied on the nosewheel's friction to
keep the plane straight on course down the centerline. Not enough, I
found out that day.

The incident never got dangerous. The speed was low, and I quickly
yanked the throttle, and managed to steer again. The runway was long
and wide, so I just let it roll, steered back to the centerline, and
slowly applied more power. As the speed went up, the fin started to
bite air, and off we went.

Lesson: the assymetric prop wash effect is strongest when the aircraft
is still.


Per Lindberg (per@front.se)         !			      __!__
Front Capital Systems, Box 5727,    !	---- Wheeehaaa!!! _____(_)_____
11487 Stockholm, Sweden. 8-6611510  !			     !  !  !
From: xde@xtxde.UUCP (Dave Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Ramp checks--unreasonable search
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:00:11 CDT
Organization: Not

In article <1992Jul17.134834.17458@exu.ericsson.se> exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph, XT/DO, x7534) writes:
> 
> This all leads me to a question. As PIC are you required to know all AD's are
> passed for a plane you fly? I mean, you really need to be to be an A&P with
> a database to know what AD's are out there and which ones are applicable.  Add
> to that a possible fleet of planes(assuming you are renting from a large group
> of airplanes or commercially flying from a fleet) and I think you have an
> impossible administrative nightmare.
> ---
> Mark Steph              | you can twist perceptions
> exumfs@exu.ericsson.se  | reality won't budge 
> (yes, .se *is* in Texas)| you can raise objections
> PO Box 833875, MS L-05  | I will be the judge -- and the jury
> Richardson, TX 75083    |      -Neil Peart, "Show Don't Tell"

I'm not looking at any book, but I couldn't possibly imagine that a renter
pilot would have to know the AD's. This has to be the FBO's or the aircraft
owners responsibility, if an AD isn't complied with, then the plane isn't 
legal for renting, or flying anywhere for that matter.
-- 

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   - Dave Evans   ...!vpnet.chi.il.us!xtxde!xde - Insert something here -
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA