HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.sys.m68k,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.large,comp.databases.oracle
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.stratus
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:15:31 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville--Dept. of Computer Science
Distribution: world
Expires: 30 Sep 1992 22:23:24 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Summary: group should be created, mailing list gateway likely
Keywords: Stratus, VOS, FTX, fault tolerant, news, mailing list

To fulfill Usenet protocol, I suppose we must repeat the earlier exchanges.
We now have the current Request for Discussion on a group creation:

> From: rmwise@mcigate.apdev.mci.com (Bob_Wise)
> Subject: RFD: comp.sys.stratus
> Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 18:45:05 GMT
>
> Due to the large quantity of mail, and valuable advice from Richard
> Shuford (the info-stratus mailing list coordinator) and Mike Oliver,
> I am withdrawing the comp.os.vos and comp.unix.ftx RFD's in favor
> of a unified group comp.sys.stratus.
> -Bob Wise
> rmwise@apdev.mci.com

> comp.sys.stratus request for discussion _and_ RFD cancellations
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Name    : comp.sys.stratus
> 
> Charter : Discussions about the Stratus (and IBM System 88) hardware
>           and software.  Note that the OS software covered will include
>           VOS, FTX I (ATT 5.3), and FTX II, (ATT 5.4).
> 
> Status  : Unmoderated.  
> 
> -Bob Wise

So, I'll repeat what I said before:

Both Andy Miller (at278@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) and Mike Oliver
(moliver@pyramid.com) have voiced support for a new newsgroup
to be called 

    comp.sys.stratus

As the coordinator of the Info-Stratus mailing list, I wish to support
the effort to create this one group to carry discussion concerning the
fault-tolerant transaction-processing computers made by Stratus
Computer, Inc. (and also sold by IBM as the System/88 and by Olivetti
as the CPS-32).

The Info-Stratus mailing list was organized last October and has built
an active message base with participants around the United States and
in 10 other countries.

It will be possible to arrange a bi-directional gateway between the
'comp.sys.stratus' group and the Info-Stratus mailing list, so that
the message traffic can be shared with both news-capable and
news-lacking Stratus-architecture users.  Such news-to-email gateways
are in wide use in the Usenet and Internet.

The mailing-list host will continue to provide a mail-based archive
server for contributed source code and past articles.

The discussion in the group and list can cover all aspects of these
machines, including both the proprietary VOS and the Unix-derived FTX
operating systems, as well as application software, hardware and
peripherals, and higher-level issues.

Interested parties may join Info-Stratus now by sending a message with
the contents consisting of a single word  SUBSCRIBE  to the address:

    Info-Stratus-REQUEST@mike.lrc.edu

-- 
 ....Richard S. Shuford
     shuford@cs.utk.edu
     Info-Stratus List Coordinator
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Bogus moderated groups (was Re: changing the moderator...)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Aug12.181926.4110@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<1992Aug12.182156.4372@midway.uchicago.edu> <2288@aegis.or.jp>
	<1992Aug14.193244.12093@ils.nwu.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:15:48 GMT

Jim> == Jim Mccoy <mccoy@ils.nwu.edu> 

 Jim> The checkgroups hinted at perviously is the way to go.  It is
 Jim> posted on a monthly basis to a news.admin group (which one will it
 Jim> go to now that the reorg is out? hmm...) and is sent out by Gene
 Jim> Spafford at Purdue.

Probably news.admin.technical, which is (thankfully) moderated and
therefore capable of being read by all news admins (hopefully).

It's also on rtfm.mit.edu, in the Kamens Archive of USENET Wisdom, in
case you expire news.admin too fast or something ;-)
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
            ``Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep.
            Approach me that you might see.'' -- The Master
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:34:25 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Aug14.215223.14895@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In article <1992Aug9.032207.2986@wolves.uucp>, news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
>> If you really want to, you can ask each voter the simple question of
>> "where you contacted by the vote-taker in private email during the vote
>> period asking you for a yes vote."   (It is up to them to decide if they
>> want to answer the question.)
>
>Playing devil's advocate, they may lie about it too especially if
>they see that the group may be knocked down.

Yes, they may lie about it. However, if vote fraud was widespread enough to
affect the result of the vote, it is extremely unlikely that they will *all*
lie about it. All you need to find is *one* concrete piece of evidence of
vote-taker fraud.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:01:35 GMT

In article <14040@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.044251.9828@uunet.uu.net>, les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>> All of the six new unmoderated newsgroups proposed to replace
>> rec.bicycles were approved by margins of at least 403 to 124, which
>> amply meets the established criteria.  I have not bothered to count
>> the votes separately for each newsgroup because the approval rate was
>[deleted text]
>> 
>> The basis of the numeric results given above is as follows.
>> Votes were collected in three mailboxes, with the following results:
>> 403  all-yes (those voting in favor of all six proposals),
>>  80  all-no (those voting against all six proposals), and
>>  44  mixed (those voting for or against individual proposals).
>> 
>> Thus if we treat the "mixed" votes as being "all-no," the margin of
>> approval for all newsgroups is at least 403 to 124.  (In fact, a
>> number of the "mixed" votes are mixtures of "yes" and "abstain" with
>> no "no" votes, so the margins of approval are actually higher than the
>> numbers given.)
>
>I object to this...this was not one proposal but six different proposals. It is
>the responsibility of the vote gather to report ALL results. Mr. Ernest does
>not have the right to assume all mixed votes are either yes or no. I consider 
>this to be a violation of the guidelines and since results were rejected for
>less, I would ask the the results of each vote be published as required by the
>guideline or the vote be invalidated.

Picky picky picky.

What would be the point of the extra work?  The proposed re-org has
clearly been approved, by a massive margin.  No amount of bean-counting
will change that.

And as to the MTB guy who complained we all "fucked up", because we
didn't do things his way:  I gave the solution to this complaint a long
time ago.  If YOU want rec.bicycles.mtb, then you can do the work to
get it approved and created:  RFDs, CFVs, etc.  If you don't care
enough to do this, then why should we?  (For the record, I would vote
against such a group - I agree that the current division makes the most
sense.)

Hey, Les (and Bruce), isn't it amazing how critical people can be, when
someone else is doing all the work?  But the results of the vote
clearly show you did a good job of this, and I'm sure many people
appreciate your efforts.

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: STRAW POLL: changing a moderator
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:15:28 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.


	I always knew that usenet was more of an oligarchy than democracy. 
There will always be those few individuals who wield the power to usurp
guidelines and with a wave of an email, wipe out a vote (or prevent one).

	I understand Dave Lawrence's (and Jonathan's) concern about moderator
replacement.  However it seems to boil down to a fear of the great unwashed
masses upsetting the apple cart.

	The readers of usenet (collectively) are not stupid.  While individuals
may be rash, or rude, or just plain silly a majority of readers act in
accordance with what they feel is right.  Continuous RFDs are (at this point)
mere speculation.  In my opinion, such tactics would only entrench current
moderators as a majority of readers would line up against such tactics.

	As I stated before, I currently hold positions much like those of a
moderator.  I was elected by a body of people and make decisions about how the
group operates.  But I also understand that it's a two way street.  My
obligation to THEM is much greater than their's is to me.  They have entrusted
me to "do the right thing".  At their request (i.e., a VOTE), I will step down
if they feel their needs are best met with someone else running things.

	Therefore (but without hope of actually changing things) I will run a
straw poll.  The poll with ask what the usenet readers think about moderator
changes.  I encourage everyone to spread news of the straw poll to groups they
read often.  I will only post it here in news.groups.

	Without further ado, here is the poll.  Please answer YES, NO or DK
(don't know/don't care).
================================

[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to change moderators.

[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to unmoderate a group.

[vote]	Usenet readers should have the power to moderate a group.

[vote]	The current RFD/CFV method is sufficient for ensuring fairness.

[vote]	The moderator of news.announce.newgroups should have veto power over
	moderator changes.

[vote]	It would take a lot for me to vote in favor of unseating a current 
	moderator.

        The vote will run from today (August 13th) until midnight, EDT, August
26th.  Results will be posted by the following Monday.

	Send email to demon@wsu.bitnet or demon@desire.wright.edu.  Replying to
this message will get your vote here.

Brett Kottmann
demon@wsu.bitnet
demon@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
From: apuzzo@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Tony Apuzzo)
Subject: Re: MTB newsgroup, any interest?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:48:21 GMT

At the risk of being seen as a trouble maker, I have some suggestions:

(1) When posting any Mountain bike related topic place MTB in the subject.

(2) Post all such messages in rec.bicycles.misc and cross-post to the
"appropriate" newsgroup.

(1) is already happening to some extent.  (2) is sure to be more
controversial.  People like me with little time could search for MTB in
the r.b.misc group and leave the Roadies in (relative) peace.


-Tony
-- 
*                                                         
* Be a non-conformist like me and don't use a .sig at all.
*
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:39:31 GMT
Organization: Megadodo Publications, Light City, Ursa Minor Beta

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:

>>Indeed.  But as I've pointed out elsewhere, at least twice now :-),
>>changing a newsgroup from unmoderated to moderated, which does not
>>involve stepping on anyone's toes or forcing anyone to defend
>>themselves, is quite a different situation from changing the moderator
>>of a newsgroup without his consent.

>The moderator -became- moderator only through consent of the netgroup's
>readers. Does the moderator become a dictator after that? BTW, I voted
>against the moderation of comp.binaries.apple2. If it passes, will 
>Jawaid be moderator for life?

Current thinking allows a moderator to choose his successor, but I agree
that the public should have some say about a change/removal of a
moderator.  This from a person who is also up for moderation of
comp.binaries.apple2.

>>The former affects only the readers of the newsgroup.  The latter
>>affects both the readers of the newsgroup AND the current moderator,
>>and therefore, the current moderator must have a special place in the
>>process.

>If the moderator were King, I would not question. Is not the moderator
>an elected position sensitive to the needs of the readership?

"Simon Bar Sinister for Dictator!"  (If I got the spelling wrong, I'm
sure someten will tell me.)

>Rich
>payner@netcom.com

-- gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: apology
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Aug07.054544.186074@zeus.calpoly.ed
	<CKD.92Aug11195013@loiosh.eff.org>
	<1992Aug12.163402.3406@desire.wright.edu>
	<JAAPJL.92Aug13131104@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:08:18 GMT

jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:

   Any other net.misconceptions to be dispelled?

I want to apologize for this.  It seemed to me as I wrote this that
demon seemed to be trying to misunderstand Jonathan.  Reading it
a few minutes later shows me I was unkind in this comment.
--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681
From: bm@bike2work.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Michel)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:15:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bike2work

I like this... since much of the auto-free movement deals with many of
the issues that are integrally related to the solution of tranportation
problems, but are not directly related to the transportation *modes*
themselves (land-use planning, mainly).

Bill	
>
>How about misc.auto-free?  (There was an "Auto-Free" conference in
>Toronto recently.)  The car nuts will complain, but they have their
>own groups to discuss their own issues.
>
>The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself


--
Bill Michel			
bm@eng.sun.com		These views are my own, not Sun's.
From: rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:00:49 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

GnuPlot is not a FSF creation.  It is in that spirit, but not one of
their "official" tools.

-- 
Josh Rovero   (rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil) | or Internet 5346p@cc.nps.navy.mil 
Department of Oceanography, Code OC/Rv |      Bitnet 5346p@NAVPGS 
Naval Postgraduate School              |              
Monterey, CA  93943   (408) 646-2084   |
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley
From: paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment 
Organization: Are you kidding?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:11:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.232639.7416@nas.nasa.gov> ciotti@wk42.nas.nasa.gov (Robert B. Ciotti) writes:
+Here is the ack for the rec.motorcycles.harley vote received by
+Mon Aug 10 16:21:04 PDT 1992
+
+laszlo@columbine.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 
+laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Laszlo Nemeth 

"Vote early & Vote often"?????
____________________________________________________________________________
NOTICE:  USENET is an international forum.  Some usenet readers did not
learn English as their first language.  So, to make it easier for them,
please type slowly when you reply to a post.  Thank you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Blumstein, paulb@harley.tti.com, DoD #36, ABATE, AMA, HOG, KD6LAA
(note paulb@tti.com no longer works; paulb@ttidca.tti.com goes away soon)
            Transaction Technology, Inc., Santa Monica, CA
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gls@windmill.ATT.COM (Col. G. L. Sicherman)
Subject: Re: rec.games.strategic
Organization: Jack of Clubs Precision Instruments Co.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 17:07:13 GMT
Keywords: checkers, shogi, othello, hex, etc.

And what about Teeko?  Despite Scarne's typically erroneous calculations,
Teeko ought to be easy to solve completely with a modern computer.

In case you don't know what Teeko is ... I'll post source code in a few
weeks.

							:L

-:-
	"Not a dwarf hole with piles of dirt, gypsum, and dried snot
	 lying around, nor a narc hole with obscene drawings in the
	 vestibule and a cesspool in the middle of the living-room: 
	 it was a boggie hole, and that means all of the above."
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
gls@windmill.att.COM
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:46:40 GMT

bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
>>All I can say is you all F*CKED up!!!

>>Don (the pissed of mountain biker/tourer) Juan
                  ^^

>That is, of course, a matter of personal opinion!

Hopefully, this is mis-typed & not misspelled personal opinion.  Or
maybe DJ really means to use "of".

At least F*CKED is spelled right.  :-)  Well, isn't it?


-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.173543.3626@ncsu.edu>
steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>In article <7w!ngya@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>>>>> CAD8025@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca "Problem Reporting, A" 
>>>>> ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca Mike Mychalkiw 
>>>>> ADVI8721@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca advisor's utility disk 
>I have attempted to contact the three above-listed accounts, but have had
>no reply.  It's possible that the votes have sailed off into the aether.

I just emailed my third request for information to the above three accounts.
Obviously, I have not yet received a reply to the two previous requests.
Again, this could be due to an email snafu.  In the event that I'm 
experiencing problems with the email system, could someone else please be
so kind as to contact these three accounts or act as a go-between for me?

>I have emailed sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu "Shirl G. Grant" and
>sggrant+@pitt.edu Shirley G Grant, but have not yet received a response.
>That might take some additional time to obtain.

I have received an email response from Shirl.  She was very honest and
apologetic, just as I offered her an apology if she took offense with my
statements.  She stated that sggrant+@pitt.edu and sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu 
are the same person, and that "since [she] represent[s] 2 users at 2 schools,
[she] thought 2 votes were in order".

I responded to her that her honest mistake does not affect the outcome of 
the vote, and not to worry about it.  I also mentioned that I had been told
by the "net.gods" that there is only "one vote per person", NOT "one vote
per user account", *BUT* the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation DON'T
EXPLICITLY ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

I believe the following corrective action is appropriate in that it may help
to preclude recurrence of this mistake on all future CFVs:

 1. The Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation should be amended to explicitly 
    reflect the philosophy of ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, and this should be 
    implemented at the earliest possible opportunity.  Perhaps the Guidelines
    should also explicitly state that ONE ACCOUNT, ONE VOTE is unacceptable
    practice.
 2. The Guidelines should also be amended to explicitly state that THE LAST
    VOTE OF MULTIPLE VOTES FROM A SINGLE PERSON, AND ONLY THAT LAST VOTE, 
    SHALL BE COUNTED IN THE FINAL TALLY.  (I have communicated via email with
    George Herbert on this (2) specific topic, and he assured me that he 
    would be taking this up with Spaf and Tale, and I believe George will do
    this.)

Comments on the above-proposed corrective action are requested.

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
       Contrary to popular belief, I am not the Devil's advocate...
                  ...but I am his speech writer.
Xref: sparky news.groups:17017 rec.bicycles:21349
From: Terri_Watson@cs.cmu.edu (Elfling)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: MTB newsgroup, any interest?
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:08:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ELF.ELF.92Aug20160818
	<1992Aug19.124826.2911@source.asset.com>
	<1992Aug20.171734.9024@vestek.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Carnegie Mellon School of Computer Science

I think the split was already decided on, but adding a MTB group
sounds like a win to me.

.Terri
Xref: sparky news.groups:16811 alt.sex:26477 alt.sex.stories:1284
From: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.sex,alt.sex.stories
Subject: Re: Straw Poll on rec.arts.erotica moderatorship
Date: 13 Aug 1992 07:50:59 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Summary: Bad Timing...  POLL CANCELLED

In article <1992Aug13.050133.2406@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu writes:
>[one straw poll deleted for brevity]

Apparently this was somewhat poorly timed, for reason that are 
beyond my control: Berkeley had a net outage (power substation blew
up or something... ) and I couldn't read news this morning.
So I merely posted via MIT the article I'd prepared early yesterday.

People have told me that Tim Pierce and Evan have worked out a moderator
switch and that Tim announced it this morning... I'm accepting that
as legitimate, though the news hasn't percolated through to agate
yet (it missed a lot of news during the outage).  The Straw Poll
is hereby cancelled on those grounds; the dissatisfactions with
the moderator were with Evan, not Tim Pierce, and so the
entire point has become moot.  Since there's no real point to,
I don't think that announcing the results of the (short) poll
is necessary or good.

[Apparently this all is an example of the "No good deed ever goes unpunished"
phenomenon... sigh 8-) ]

-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com  gwh@uchu.isu92.ac.jp until 28 aug

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Rec.arts.erotica Moderation -- Answer (sort of)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:23:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.123529.5404@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:

>Why doesn't someone ask Evan before everyone gets all fired up for nothing
>(like last time).

Great question.

Evan asked me if I would like to take over a few weeks ago, and I said
I'd be happy to if I could get a few things straightened out.

I've gotten them straightened out, and wrote to him saying that I will
be able to take over if he wants to step down.

So shut up already.  When a change takes place, you'll hear about it.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: news.groups