HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: White leadoff; Carter mvp
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:39:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.103919.9074@ac.dal.ca> vanburg@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <By1CyD.8Dx@zoo.toronto.edu>, rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising) writes:
>> I wonder if there is a high correlation between people
>> who think that White is a good lead-off hitter and that
>> Carter was the Jays' mvp last year.
>
>Devo may not be the ideal lead-off hitter, too many Ks, but he does get the 
>job done better than most (ie Coleman). Carter is very important to the 
>Jays but Robby was most likely the team's MVP. Also Joe should be 
>batting fifth with Olerud third and Winfield forth.
>
What do strikeouts matter to a leadoff hitter?  The reason he isn't a good
leadoff hitter is that his OBP is generally low.  Only once in eight years
has he broken the .333 I consider average.  White had a .303 OBP last
year, while Coleman has been running .340-.350 for the past three years.
If I could have White fielding and Coleman batting leadoff in his place I
would.

Alomar *was* the team's MVP.  No doubt about it.  How often do you get
a superb defensive second baseman with an OBP over .400?  Stealing 49
times in 58 tries isn't bad either.  Sort of an infield version of Rickey
Henderson.

Joe Carter, IMHO, hurts the Jays where he is.  Bat him fifth or sixth,
where he won't put outs in so many rallies, and where as many people as
possible get to be on base for him.  Alomar is the guy you want to start
the rally, and Joe the one to finish it (one way or another).

Setting up a lineup for the Jays is a little difficult because they have
some serious offensive holes:  third base, catcher, center field, and
shortstop (although Lee had a good OBP for a shortstop).  For '93, in
addition, I wouldn't expect Winfield to have nearly as good a year
- although in fairness I wouldn't have predicted him to have that good
a one this year.

So how about this:

Alomar
Lee
Olerud
Winfield
Maldonado
Carter
Gruber
Borders
White

David Thornley
John Smiley for first Twins free agent signing fan club
From: laura@sdd.hp.com (Laura Mansfield)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Who was the favorite player of your youth?.
Date: 17 Nov 1992 22:18:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdl141.sdd.hp.com

Jim Sundberg
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Maduux gone, Cubs alive?
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:20:23 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Nov23.190108.12292@bsu-ucs> 00jlbrash@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>Everyone is forgetting Derrick May. I'll bet he will hit 20 homers and bat .300
>if he starts he is a perfect 5 hitter and would be all right in the 4 spot. 

Cough, cough, cough, cough.

>If
>Sosa can even come close to living up to his potential. (Lets be conservative
>15hr's and bat .240) the offense will be all right.
>
>Look at this.
>1. Dunston  10hr .280   Everyone forgets he was hitting over 300 before injury

If Dunston hits .280, he'll have an OBA of .320.  Below average, especially in
Wrigley.

>2. Sandberg 20hr .290   Did anyone else think he was dogging at times in 92?
>3. Grace    15hr .320   He's tearing up the Japs
>4. ??????   ?????????   Probably a free agent (Carter or Pucket)
>5. May      20hr .290   See above (Looks like a young Durham)

Serious overestimate.

>6. Sosa     15hr .240   This spot is the weakness
>7. Buschele 15hr .270   Descent player, dependable perfect 6 man 

But is he still on the Cubs?  Regardless, this is also an overestimate.

>8. Wilkins  15hr .250   Wilkins is very well thought of around the league
>
>Looks pretty good if we just get a clean up hitter. 

You're still short a leadoff man and a bench.

>The reason I said Carter or
>Pucket is because Carter came up in the Cubs organization and Pucket has said
>he would like to play in Chicago. Keep in mind Bonds said he wouldn't mind
>playing in Chicago. But I don't think Himes will pursue Bonds, Bonds isnt a
>classy player like Himes like. 

And no doubt the Cubs fans prefer classy players to winning teams.

>Pucket and Carter are classy players. 

They're also due for a tremendous decline that would only be partially
hidden by playing in Wrigley.  Carter is exactly who the Cubs *don't* want.

>Plus if
>the Cubs are going to resign Maddux or sign another pitcher they won't have
>enough money. Keep in mind the Cubs are not a poor team they have money. 

Having money doesn't do good unless it's spent.  Pitching's going to be
weaker next year than it was this year.  If Dawson's replaced with someone
who isn't an out-sink, they might turn up in offense, but the offense was
abysmal, if not the worst in the NL last year.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:20:08 GMT

>Wait, I just re-read what you were saying.  And I'm not clear on exactly
>what it meant.  Are you claiming they should make Greg Briley their
>leadoff man?  Greg Briley, of the career .320 OBP?  Greg Briley, who put
>up a .290 OBP last year?  Greg Briley?
>

Sure. Briley really hasn't been given a chance to play so I think it is
unfair to use his .320 career OBP against him yet. Besides, their other
choices are to go with wasting Edgar Martinez in the #1 spot or resigning 
Harold Reynolds who doesn't have a much better career OBP and would stifle
the play of Bret Boone. Of course, they could always go out and get someone,
but I doubt that will happen.

--Les

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A TRUE RUMOR! Sandy Alomar for Pat Borders
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:24:04 GMT

.>
.
>

In article <1992Nov23.150609.15256@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> In article <1992Nov22.045210.9637@r-node.gts.org> shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu) writes:
>>
>>Very good analysis.  Can you redo it with Gruber in the picture?
> 
> Sure.  In general, the team which receives the best player wins the
> deal.  Baerga is clearly more valuable than either Borders or Gruber.
> And Sandy Alomar ain't too bad himself.
> 
> The Indians would be idiots to trade a *young* *superstar* for two 30
> year old players who never amounted to particularly much even in their
> prime.

Bob Uecker "never amounted to paticularly much".........
An AL MVP and a WS MVP add up to a little more !!!!!
 

> 
> But then, the Indians have never been interested in winning games.
> Their excuse *used* to be that they wanted to dump salary.  But now
> they can't use that as an excuse.  They hardly have any salary left to
> dump!  Obviously, somebody is trying to kill the team.
> 
> -Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Perry@mte.ncsu.edu (Bill Perry)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:35:11 GMT

In article <By6upx.Awv@ns1.nodak.edu> graftaas@plains.NoDak.edu (Eric Graftaas)
writes:
>Let me just say that the real MVP of the American League is Kirby Puckett
>of the Minnesota  Twins. Nobody can outplay him. He's probably the best
>player in baseball.  To all of you in Chicago-- Forget it Kirby is going
>to stay here. 
>
>I'm going out a limb and saying that Minnesota will be in the 1993 World
>Series. Look at their probable line up.
>
>1st Hrbek
>2nd Knoblouck
>ss  Leius
>3rd Boggs
>LF  Mack
>CF  Puckett               Looks like the core of World Champs
>RF  Munoz
>C   Harper
>SP  Smiley
>    Tapeni
>    Erickson
>    Mahomes
>    Banks
>RP  Aguillari
>

Didn't the Twins turn down an offer of 27.5 over five years?  I'm sure other
clubs would offer the same.  My prediction is that IF Joe Carter leaves the
Jays for KC, that Kirby will be playing the WS for 'da Jays.

Also, who wants Boggs?  He's overpriced, has no power, and his skills are
diminishing.  He should have taken the $$ that Boston offered him, because
He'll be lucky if he gets $2 mil a year now.  Money is getting tight now, and
few teams will spend that much for him.

Bill
From: arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tigers in 93? (Was: Re: Brewers in 93?)
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:48:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov15.234823.24198
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov15.144224.4578@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:

>>--> The difference between the Brewers and the Tigers is the Brewers aren't
>>    expected to do anything to improve their team this offseason. Meanwhile
>>    the Tigers with new money will almost certainly be looking for free agent
>>    pitchers. They're my choice in the Greg Maddux sweepstakes. So, 
>
>Don't count on it.  There's been a lot of talk about Bosio, Swindell and
>Smiley, but not much about getting Greg Maddux.  
>
>>>

Well, that's what speculation is all about. If they signed two out of the
three you mention, they'd still be much better off than I can ever remember.

>They will not "suddenly stop producing runs", but since most of their
>regulars are over 29, they will probably decline considerably.  Especially
>if Whitaker isn't re-signed.
>

I don't see how you can justify that statement. They scored a lot of runs
last year. Are you telling me that in 6 months, they suddenly are going to
appear with canes. The fact is that with most players, declines in
production are steady. They will still have one of the best offenses in the
league, next year.

>>>Cecil Fielder?  Can he decline *again*?  He's not much above average at
>>>this point.  And their outfield isn't anything special.
>>
>>--> Yeah. Maybe he'll only get 120 RBIs next year.
>
>Yeah, and eat up 500 outs.  

Rickey Henderson, in his MVP season, ate up 457 outs. Anyone who can drive
in 120 runs and hit 40 HRs could play on my team.

--Les
From: gt4925b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jason Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:18:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jack Kemp in 1996

In <1992Nov18.213318.6239@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.192059.26358@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith) writes...
>> 
>>How could the expansion teams pass on Keith Mitchell. As an avid Braves fan,
>>he looked great last year (.318 avg on pennant contender) and has good minor
>>league credentials. He's young and he has shown he can hit ML pitching. True 
>>he did slump a bit in spring and this year in AAA but I think he could step
>>in and play a good LF for Colorado or Florida for a long time.

>	He would look great as a outfielder for an expansion team.  But
>I never expect he'd end up on one.  I figure that the Brave's three protect
>players (after the loss of Neid) were Pete Smith, Merker and Mitchell.  

According to the Atlanta Constitution, the Braves protected Pete Smith,
Kent Mercker, and Donnie Elliot after round 1.  After round 2, they
protected Mark Lemke, Rafeal Belliard, and Charlie Liebrant.  These
names seemed to come from Scheurholz himself, not just a rumor.

The Marlins said that had Liebrandt been available, they would have 
picked him.




-- 
"Socialism has a bad name in America, and no amount of wishful
thinking on the part of the left is going to change that in our
lifetimes...The words Economic Democracy are an adequate and 
effective replacement." Derek Shearer, CLINTON advisor|  Kemp 96
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mlsa@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Phillies #1
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:44:40 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <92326.144720RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>"what the hell is a phillie? that's got to be the worst name for
>a professional team ever."
>
>well, what illiterate morons decided to spell "socks" "sox"?
>
>carlton fisk was a red sok, now he's a white sok?
>
>bob vesterman.
Sock n. pl.Socks or for 1 also sox 1 A short stocking usually reaching the
calf or just above the ankle

Carlton Fisk, a player for both Sox teams could be considered both a white
sock and a red sock, however the team names are white sox and red sox.  The
correct singular for phillies, using proper english is philly
-- 
MICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN
758-0207
MLSA

"I really do appreciate the fact you're sitting here, you're voice sounds so
wonderful but your face don't look too clear so barmaid bring a pitcher,
another round of brew, why don't we get drunk and screw?"- J. Buffett
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Minor trade
Organization: Pitzer College
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:09:33 GMT

In article <By17wB.DEs@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes:
 
>I heard that the Twins traded Darren Reed to the Mets, but who did they get
>in return?  I'm assuming it was little more than a six-pack and a bag of 
>peanuts.  Just curious.

The returning player was Patrick Howell.  If memory serves, this was a 
player the Twins picked up in a Rule 5 draft, wanted to keep but felt they 
couldn't waste the roster spot, so gave him back.  This is also, BTW, Reed's 
second stop with the Mets.  Howell did not have a good year, but neither did 
Reed, so this is even less than a minor trade.  But I know MacPhail liked 
him, so he probably figured "what the hell" and dumped Reed.

--Sparky

Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 12:17:02 -0500 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Phillies #1
Distribution: usa

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 20-Nov-92 Phillies #1 by Anuj
Gupta@andrew.cmu.ed 
> Later - Look for the rest of the reason's why they will win, including
> their now amazing starting rotation, and their suberb closer. Only on
> the net can you get good stuff like this

Didn't they finish in the cellar last year?
Does Wes Chamberlain have any concept of on base percentage?
How can any team win when it has loud mouth, obnoxious, loser fans like you?

Mit

What the hell is a Phillie?  That has to be the worst name for a professional
team ever.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ecaxron@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Re: creative managing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: na
Date: 18 Nov 1992 13:21 EDT  

In article <Bxx7oI.841@deshaw.com>, baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) 
     writes...

>Thank you to everyone who responded.  I don't think we need to see the
>same 2 or three games referred to more than 10 or 12 times, though, so
>I respectfully ask that no one cite Herzog or that crazy Mets game
>anymore.  

Did anyone mention the Tribe game in 1970?  Sam McDowell was pitching
(v. California, I think), and Alvin Dark moved him to second base to
have Dean Chance come in and pitch to a single right-handed batter, one
whom McDowell had had a great deal of trouble.  Chance got the out (no
grounder to second, darn it ;-)) and McDowell returned to finish the game.

RG

"I don't know how [the Indians] lose.  I really don't."  -  John Smiley
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Trade Clemens?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:28:03 GMT

In article <steph.722335545@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>
>Tell you what.  Keep Plantier, and we'll be glad to send you Hunter, Justice,
>and Pete Smith for Clemens.  Deal?

It is to laugh.  You want THE BEST PITCHER EVER (albeit not *quite* in
his prime) for a nobody, an injury-plagued bad-attitude player, and a
suspect who probably wasn't even protected in the expansion draft.

-Valentine
From: v130r92d@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark R Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: David Segui
Date: 15 Nov 92 19:54:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov15.184847.19227@news2.cis.umn.edu>, thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes...
>In article <Bxqq0v.63G@acsu.buffalo.edu> v130r92d@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark R Miller) writes:
>>
>>David Segui is a no-nonsense player. He has the heart of a tiger!
>>Every team would be THAT much better with a player of David Segui's
>>determination and will power.
>>
>>Too bad the Tigers have donut eating first baseman whose only mindset is to see
>>what the featured flavor donut of the week is at Dunkin Donuts'.
> 
>But the Tigers have Dan Gladden!  What more do they need?  
> 
>David Thornley
>"Please let them take David West in the first round"


I'm sorry but you are doomed to have David West and tremendous talent on the
Twins for the rest of eternity (and for the rest of his illustrious career!)

Dunkin Donuts patrons, Have you seen Cecil or G-man yet?

                                             -B
From: ghc@ocf.berkeley.edu (Gary Cheng)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Dodgers
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:12:21 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu

   I believe that the Dodgers didn't really lose too much in the draft:

   1)Jamie McAndrew was once a highly touted prospect but has fallen off
     the last couple of years. Not much of a loss.
   2)Eric Young-Played rather well at the end of the year but was
     again supsect on defense , as was the whole infield.  Good hitter
      though but Harris and Sharperson would seem to be more versatile
      than him.
   3)Roberto Meija- A hot Second base prospect with power in the AA
    but the Dodgers needed a 2-baseman now.
   4)Rudy Seanez-A hard thrower (LHP) but was coming off surgery
    and hasn't pitched for a year.  Did well in the summer League
    last year.  But I think that getting Jody Reed should add stability
    in the infield as well as provide some veteran leadership there.
    GReat move.

    BUT, why did the Dodgers protect Kevin GRoss.  This guy is a career
    sub-500 pitcher who has always had good stuff but doesn't seem
    to use it.  The Dodgers have enough pitchers for their starting
    lineup(HErshiser,Martinez,Martinez,Astacio,Candiotti)

    Can anyone tell me about GReg Hansell.  They protected him, so he
    must have shown some prominence.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:42:00 GMT

In article <By6upx.Awv@ns1.nodak.edu> graftaas@plains.NoDak.edu (Eric Graftaas) writes:
>Let me just say that the real MVP of the American League is Kirby Puckett
>of the Minnesota  Twins. Nobody can outplay him. He's probably the best
>player in baseball.

If you say so.  IMHO, he isn't even the best player on his team.
Shane Mack plays better defense, has more power (most years), hits for
almost as high an average, and has better plate discipline.  Also more
speed on the basepaths.

>I'm going out a limb and saying that Minnesota will be in the 1993 World
>Series. Look at their probable line up.

In your dreams!  First, is there any chance of Leius playing short?  I
certainly haven't heard any rumors to that effect.  Second, if the
Twins *do* sign Puckett, they aren't going to have much money left
over.  Certainly not enough to sign Boggs and Smiley.  And if they do
sign Boggs, I can assure you that they will be *very* disappointed.
He simply doesn't have the range to play on turf.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: e128-al@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Class Account)
Subject: Re: Dodgers
Summary: protection for Gross
Keywords: the only reason
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:20:03 GMT

In article <1eep1vINNhcv@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:

>One of lifes great mysteries...what DOES Fred Claire see in Kevin
>Gross????  During the year last year, Claire said Gross was
>the most valuable player on the pitching staff...and he didn't
>say that after the no-hitter.

>I agree with your comments 100%.  Kevin Gross has mostly been
>a number 4 starter AT BEST.  On the Dodgers two years ago, he
>was number 5, and lost his starting position to Orel Hershiser
>when he came back.  Gross is just a journeyman pitcher - - never
>a star and never will be IMHO.

The only I reason I can see for the protection of Kevin Gross is what he did
for the Dodgers this summer, pitching the no-hitter to prevent the dreaded
San Francisco Giants from sweeping in Dodger Stadium.  While I wouldn't say
that game alone is worth his salary, I can't overlook the importance of that
clutch performance.

*****************************************************************************
    Albert Chi                      THE University of California
    e128-al@bard.berkeley.edu      Toliet Bowl for the Bears!
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Re: Reason for dropped-3rd-strike rule?
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:56:18 GMT

In article <bogreen.721960564@unixg.ubc.ca> bogreen@unixg.ubc.ca (Bo Green) writes:

>I was watching a Jays/Yankees game this year, and it was raining hard,
>with hurricane action closing in on Yankee Stadium. The Jays were leading
>at the time, and Alfredo Griffin was batting. He swung at a rain-ball
>that was 10 feet off the plate, to try to speed up the inning and get 5
>innings in. The umpire called it a ball, presumably because A.G. was not
>making an attempt to hit the ball. Easy call in that situation.
>If the ball is closer to the plate, the player would have to guess that
>the catcher was not going to flag it down, which adds to the already
>difficult task of hitting with two strikes. It can be done (see McGee above),
>but I would think it's pretty tough to do. 
>

	It wasn't a ball, it was strike three. I think Griff could have taken 
first had he chose to. I don't know if he was called out after entering the
dugout, because I didn't see a throw to first.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket