HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Attanasio (was Re: Auto-buy lists)
Date: 23 Dec 92 01:44:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <J9W=1T#@engin.umich.edu>, rcj@engin.umich.edu (R o d Johnson)
wrote:
> I like it too.  It stumbles somewhat in the second half, when it turns
> into a pretty generic sea adventure book, but the first section (the
> Borneo part) is *superb*.  And as a whole, it's the first time
> Attanasio really gets a grip on how to write a novel (as opposed to
> simply filling pages with fantastic ideas).  Don't flame me, I like
> all the earlier books a lot, but I think he matured quite a bit with
> Wyvern; parts of Radix, for instance, read like an SF version of
> Herman Hesse (not a compliment).

A problem I had with earlier, pre-Wyvern books, was the feeling that 
didn't I read this before. It seems he's recycling a lot of ideas and
stories. Wyvern seemed to be a fresh novel, in this sense.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: What is the name of this book?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:55:33 GMT

rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller):
>>This Venus was mostly covered with water. The hero gets on the wrong side 
>>of some powerful people and winds up spending years of his life in a drugged
>>state and amnesiac... possiblities are Cyril Judd and C.M. Kornbluth.

Well, CM Kornbluth is the 'Cyril' half of Cyril Judd, but the only 
Cyril Judd candidate I can suggest for your description is "The Syndic",
and that's not a good fit.

dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber):
>It was by Henry Kuttner.  They lived in domed cities under the Venusian
>sea after Earth was totalled in a war... I think it was Fury?

"Fury" fits the description much better.  (It also has a better closing
line than Tigana.)

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   Aphorism is better than none.
From: jfzeigl@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Jon Zeigler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Accident prone becomes planetary scout--name this story
Summary: Related story
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:00:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Great Beyond

This reminds me of another story I read once (and can't remember the title or
author for it, either).  An interstellar culture is at war, and is not winning.
A ridiculously accident-prone military officer is called into his superior's
office and interviewed.  During the interview a number of accidents and
malfunctions occur in and around the office.  At the end of the interview, the
accident-prone soldier is ordered to move to the enemy's home planet, and to
take no action once he arrives.  He is simply to live there.  After he leaves,
the superior smugly claims that the war will be over within a year.

Hmmmm.  I think I just remembered the title: "Prone".  Now can anyone name
the author?




-- 
* Jon F. Zeigler (jfzeigl@afterlife.ncsc.mil)                           *
*  "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Emerson    *
* The US Government and the Department of Defense are not responsible   *
* for my opinions.  In fact, I try not to let them know I have any.     *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: howsonj@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Looking for Highlander info.
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:23:04 GMT

Hi. I just recently viewed the movie,"Highlander 2:The Quickening". I've also
seen the series a few times. I couldn't quite get the gist of the both because
I haven't seen the first one. Could anyone explain this to me?Thanx.
From: max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:59:28 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:

> My two cents on Niven suggestions:  N-Space and Playgrounds of the Mind.
> They're collections of some of his stuff from over the years with
> Asimov-like autobiographical text surrounding them.

I agree.  These are both pretty neat, if you're a fan of Niven at all.  
They have is best stories all collected into one volume.  I have both in 
hardcover :-).

> As for collaborations, how about the three Dream Park books?  Niven/Barnes
> make a helluva team, and I'm >sure< there's some unattributed Pournelle
> lurking in there somewhere...

Personally, I found _Dream Park_ interesting, but kind of silly.  I 
couldn't finish _The Barsoom Project_.  I haven't touched _California 
Voodoo Game_ at all.

I _loved_ _Descent of Anansi_, though, one of the less well-known 
Niven-Barnes collaborations.  I found _Achilles' Choice_ to describe a 
moderately interesting situation, but _nothing happened_ in the story!  
(I was warned:  "It's not great, but you've got to read it if you're a 
Niven fan anyway.)  I guess the best thing I can say about it is:  It was 
short.  :-)

> XY + XX = :-)

Heh, heh.


  ____  Erik Max Francis -- ..!apple!uuwest!max -- max@west.darkside.com   __
  \  /  1070 Oakmont Dr. #1  San Jose, CA  95117  37 20 N 121 53 W  ACGT  /  \
   \/   Like strategic interstellar conquest games?  Ask about UNIVERSE!  \__/
        Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt.   All things that are, are lights.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott)
Subject: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi
Reply-To: pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.165317.22720@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE) writes:
> Why doesn't someone write a book about what happens if we DO toss out the
> DWEMs? A society in which the contributions of all dwems are regarded as
> flawed, since "everyone knows it's a man's world-- and look what they've done
> to it?"  Suppose the women's studies departments take over European culture.
> What effect will they have? Will they change their hard-line stance? or will
> they become just as crusty and prejudiced as the DWEM professors?

There was a story along these lines that I really liked in IASFM about 3 years
ago.  Unfortunately I don't recall the issue, the author, or the title :-)
but it was about a high-school class in the near-future attempting to study
a Shakespeare play after every line that could possibly offend anyone had 
been removed.  There were about 1.5 scenes left.

-- 
This is news.  This is your       |    Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech
brain on news.  Any questions?    |    (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jgh@plasma.apana.org.au (John Gerald Howell)
Subject: Re: Dickson Works
Organization: APANA site, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:27:58 GMT

ANTHONYS@ucrvm2.BITNET ("Anthony R. Sanchez") writes:


>   I just saw someone posting all the books of the Childe/Dorsai series.  The
>last one written is YOUNG BLEYS.  I have followed the series closely, but I
>haven't read this one yet.  Any comments?  It is very hard to get specific
>books here, I have to order them by surface mail, and by the title I wasn't
>very excited about buying it.


>                             Thanks.

Just finished reading it yesterday. Not bad. I got it on import here
in Australia. We usually get the English print which has a different
cover but I had been waiting for the English version for six months and
it hasn't turned up so I got it any way.  The cover was ghastly but
the contents were a lot better. No other characters from the other
books appear in this except Bleys (Stupid name); it basically outlines
his development into the leader of the 'Others' and the influences in his
upbringing and relationship with his brother Dahno (Another stupid
name). It also links in briefly with a part of 'The Final Encylopaedia.'
Although a bit predictable it is worth reading, especially if you've
read the others. It's about as good as 'The Chantry Guild' but not as
interesting. Certainly not anything like as good as 'Lost Dorsai'
or 'Soldier Ask Not' which I thought were his best. What did you think 
of the last two? 'The Final Encylopaedia' and The Chantry Guild'?


-------------------------------
John Howell Melbourne Australia
(jgh@plasma.apana.org.au)
'To bad she won't life...
but then again who does?'
- Ridley Scott's Blade Runner
------------------------------- 









Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer)
Subject: Re: Jack the Bodiless: Where is it?
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:23:37 GMT

In <disaacs.725776072@cunews>,
	dated Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:27:52 GMT,
	disaacs@pietrzak.carleton.ca (Dave Isaacs) writes:

> I have had my copy for quite some time now.  I got it at a regular book
> store (as opposed to a SF bookstore) here in Ottawa.  According to the jacket
> it is published by Alfred A. Knopf, Inc., and I assume it is available in the
> States since the jacket lists the price in the U.S.A as $20.
> 
> I here that the next book _Diamond Mask_ is due out Mayish.

Yeah, I believe I've been seeing it in hardcover for well over the expected
year required for it to come out in paperback (the amount of SF I go through,
I DO NOT buy hardcover).  I suppose the fact that DM is due out in May means
they will FINALLY release JtB in paperback.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: John Woods Campbell (was: Re: Political Correctness + Sci-fi)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:13:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.181739.14992@kth.se> f87-mol@alv.nada.kth.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>>Finally, about `political values'.  When SF loses Campbell's commitment to
>>individualism, freedom, competence, and rationalism, it will be dead.

>When American sf gets rid of the Campbell influence, it will be something to
>celebrate. The fellow did the genre almost as much harm as Gernsback did.
>Fortunately, his influence was limited to the U.S. -- in the rest of the 
>world you could actually write literate sf even in the forties.

Why is it that the apparant majority of people who talk about "literate
sf" mean exclusively sf that is collectivist, totalitarian,
anti-competent, and anti-rational?  That's why I and others reflexively
gag when certain people use the word "literate", as if any book (comic
books excluded (oops, flame shields up!!)) could be "illiterate".

Not that I don't vehemently disagree with many of Campbell's crochets,
but most of the "good stuff" had its roots in Campbell's "Astounding".

-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
mvp@netcom.com         | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
                       | sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
                       | can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Date: 29 Dec 1992 02:42:21 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: asp.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec28.100738.8703@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:
>
>In the past, merit was assigned to DWMs only, now that is
>changing and the literary community is responding to the "PC" agenda to
>reform the cannon.

Reform?  Feh.  Feh on your reform.

I say we spike it.

c
From: max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: 23 Dec 92 07:50:11 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW) writes:

> >Watch yourself, here.  _The Mote in God's Eye_ is by Larry Niven and 
> >Jerry Pournelle.  I think that Niven's stuff is best when he works with 
> >Pournelle (and Barnes), such as in _Lucifer's Hammer_ or _The Legacy of 
> >Hereot_.
> 
> Some of Niven's worst stuff has also emerged from his collaborations with
> Pournelle; _Fallen Angels_ and _The Barsoom Project_ were terrible, as was
> _Achilles' Choice_, which he wrote with Barnes.  This if of course, MHO...

I agree completely.  :-).  I found _Fallen Angels_ fairly boring, but 
couldn't finish _The Barsoom Project_ (I'm not even tempted with _The 
California Voodoo Game_).  I found _Achilles' Choice_ to have interesting 
sociology, but _nothing happened_.

Then again, there are some works by Niven (alone) which are better left 
forgotten.  _The Smoke Ring_ comes to mind.  Interesting concept with 
Kendy doing some stuff, but totally boring . . .


  ____  Erik Max Francis -- ..!apple!uuwest!max -- max@west.darkside.com   __
  \  /  1070 Oakmont Dr. #1  San Jose, CA  95117  37 20 N 121 53 W  ACGT  /  \
   \/   Like strategic interstellar conquest games?  Ask about UNIVERSE!  \__/
        Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt.   All things that are, are lights.
From: herbert@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:  Name this book.......*pleeezze!*
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:32:20 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:  Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:03:48 GMT+12
 <oz.724556011@yorku.ca> <1gosinINN45m@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <102460@netnews.upenn.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Muppet Labs

In article <102460@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1gosinINN45m@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, jseaver@bigwpi (Jason John Seaver) writes:
>
>>       Rama II and Garden of Rama are really impressive if viewed as
>>far-future technothrillers, rather than as an expansion of
>>Rendezvous.
>
>I'm sure they are.  I'd rather keep my intense awe for RWR and read
>somebody else's impressive technothrillers.

I second that.

I was awestruck when I first read RWR, and I've re-read it several times
since, and continued to enjoy it. I thought the first sequel was crap; no
great surprise there (having read "Cradle"), but I liked RWR so much that I
was willing to take the remote chance that the sequel would be as good. I
probably won't bother with the others.

IMHO, Paul Preuss's "Venus Prime" series does a much better job of expanding
on Clarke's ideas than Gentry Lee ever will -- probably because Preuss has
actually invented his own technothriller-type plot to link the stories,
instead of simply trying to expand the word count. Anyone else read these?


--
...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......

This is not a disclaimer, but it plays one on TV.

--

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kayser@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Susan E. Kayser NSSDC/STX (301)513-1673)
Subject: Re: Heroic Fantasy: Jordan vs Williams
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 03:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.224637.15329@netcom.com>, dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes...
>chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien):
>>From a quick random read, it seems that Williams
>>is more eloquent and reads better, while Jordan's prose is more clumsy.
> 
>I'd say that Williams has the better prose, but that Jordan is telling a 
>bigger and more interesting story.  Depends what you're looking for.  

Jordan's prose improves somewhat (and so does his plotting) after the first 
hundred pages or so. I prefer Wheel of Time, of the series you mention.

Susan Kayser		NCF::KAYSER  or  kayser@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes/STX at NASA/GSFC/NSSDC
Greenbelt, MD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:35:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.145925.12060@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Marty.Moore@launchpad.unc.edu (Marty Moore) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.203427.18248@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org () writes:
>>In article <1992Dec21.173931.7900@bnr.uk> agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>>>In article <BzIG2K.3xD@world.std.com>, rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) writes:
>>>|> I can think of two SF novels that have anarchy or anarchic societies as a
>>>|> theme and context. They are:
>>>|> Can you good folks think of any others?
>>>
>>
>> ANARCHAOS (I don't remember the author, but the title sticks with me)
>>
>> About a planet settled by anarchists several generations after the
>> believers in anarchy have passed on.
>
>ANARCHAOS is by Donald E. Westlake.  He's better known for his mystery and
>crime novels, but has written some sterling SF.  ANARCHAOS can be found in
>the collection TOMORROW'S CRIMES, along with some of Westlake's short SF.
>It is *well* worth reading.
>
>Marty Moore
>

Interesting.  I have in my hand a book titled ANARCHAOS by Curt Clark,
Copyright 1967, by Ace Books, Inc.  (I haven't read it.)

The jacket blurb is as follows:

"72% OF OFF-WORLD VISITORS TO ANARCHAOS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS DISAPPEARED
WITHOUT TRACE AND ARE PRESUMED TO HAVE BEEN MURDERED," the guide told Rolf
Malone.  "Customs reports you're carrying a surprising assortment of weapons,
for which you had no believable explanation.  Don't try to beat these people,
Malone - you're on their ground, playing by their rules."

"No," Malone said.  "There are no rules here."

For Anarchaos was a planet where anarchy was the only law, where each man
protected himself as best he could, and the weak were soon dead.  Malone's
brother had died that way, and Malone had come to Anarchaos to find the man who
had killed him.  He knew that he was facing an entire planet of enemies.

BTW, there's a similar thread (RE:Suggested Reading or something) currently
happening in alt.society.anarchy.  Jump in, the water's fine.  But
alt.society.anarchy is currently under invasion from alt.sex.bondage.

>(My first attempt to post to Usenet, so please forgive any mistakes.)
>--
>   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Walter Lee                                          w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu

In arguing, too, the parson owned his skill, for even tho' vanquish'd he
could argue still.
                                -- Oliver Goldsmith
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The fourth Chtorr book is out!
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:35:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)

In article <C03KFH.2nIv@austin.ibm.com>, mwiz@cia.austin.ibm.com (Marc Wiz)
wrote:
> I just picked up "A Season for Slaughter" at a local bookstore in Austin.
> I'm sure it's available elsewhere.  What's interesting is that it has
> a January 1993 copyright.  Perhaps the book did a little time traveling? :-)

I've read the first 200 pages, and it follows the story line, and yes
Mode training didn't improve Jim :-).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:34:06 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1967@spam.ua.oz> jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
>I am not aware of a single (positive) character in any of his books who
>could not be accurately described as a WASP American. If they are not
>WASP's then it is incidental. It is almost unthinkable for one of his
>characters to be a Moslem or to speak English badly or to oppose women's
>right to walk unveiled and so on. 

Funny you should use that as an example..._Stranger in a Strange
Land_ has just such a character, although I forget his name.  He's
Moslem, thinks women should be veiled, etc.  And of course Mike
speaks English badly at the beginning of the book.  But I would
agree that this is an exception.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: SF Islamic deficient?(was Re: Heinlein - Politically correct?)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 15:18:49 GMT

  Seems no one has mentioned Effinger!

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:41:57 GMT
	<L5e7VB10w165w@west.darkside.com>
Organization: Information Engineering
In-reply-to: max@west.darkside.com's message of 22 Dec 92 09:05:56 GMT

>Regarding Re: Niven/Mote in God's Eye; max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis) adds:

 > ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk (Paul Sammy 4th Year iE/CES) writes:
>>  You *must* read the Integral Trees, and the followups.

 > I thought _Integral Trees_ was good, but _Smoke Ring_ I found 
 > exceptionally boring.

  I disagree here. oh well! :-`

>>  Also Lucifers (sp?) Hammer, which is the best invasion from
>>  space books ever.

 > _Lucifer's Hammer_ was a great novel, but it didn't have much to do with 
 > interstellar invasion.  Maybe you're thinking of _Footfall_ (which was 
 > also quite good).

	eek! I shall go back and read the books 100 times (again).

 >   ____  Erik Max Francis -- ..!apple!uuwest!max -- max@west.darkside.com   __

 Paul
--

(setq flame-proof-text nil)          | Internet: ssammy@cs.strath.ac.uk
(setq auto-gnumagic-sig t)           | JANET   : ssammy@uk.ac.strath.cs
Claimer: Strathclyde University made me into this: go ahead and sue.
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