HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikeh@starnine.UUCP (Mike Haas)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: EKEY and double numbers
Date: 11 Apr 92 07:13:06 GMT
Reply-To: mikeh@starnine.UUCP (Mike Haas)
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc. Berkeley

In article <11293@mindlink.bc.ca| Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
|From the BC Forth Board:
|
|OK, I find EKEY et al. a little less strange with Mitch's explanation - but why
|not drop the other shoe and call it "EVENT", "EVENT?" and "EVENT|KEY" which is
|where it looks like this thing is really trying to go.  Full english words are
|a lot more appealling than acronyms if you have to live with them for the rest
|of your Forthing life.

ABSOLUTELY!!!  I've written a standalone text editor in jforth that used
the amiga's mouse (via the OS routines to do so), and only accessed
the keyboard via the amiga's console.device.  This program also
monitors several system "ports" for messages from other programs,
so it is input-rich.  The jforth KEY routine isn't called anywhere
in the program...it doesn't even get linked into the final program.

Since KEY is always implemented as synchronous to the calling
process, it falls short of the I/O needs of modern implementations.
The act of event-gathering should not be associated with KEY...
at least the name should be more descriptive of the complex
situations that might be returned.


|What about double number cell order on the stack?  Do you have info?  Is it
|prescribed or environment-dependent?  (I think it should be
|environment-dependent.)

Insofar as the byte-ordering of simple 16 & 32 byte cells cannot
be assumed, why restrict double or floating-point number order
to something that might be less efficiant for a given cpu?

In other words, I agree.
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:45 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 30
Message 170       Mon Mar 30, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 21:34 EST
 
First, concerning your remarks about the standard in general, I think when you
get a copy you'll find that what you've described is pretty much how it's
organized (except that DEFER hasn't made it!).

Regarding Locals, the optional Locals wordset provides a tool called (LOCALS)
that can be used to develop a number of syntaxes; several example
implementations are given in the rationale.  Although I haven't tried, yours
can probably be implemented using it.  The intent was to provide a standard
low-level interface to encourage creativity & see what developed.  We received
some comments (mostly informal) to the effect that some people would rather
have some real technology rather than a technology-building tool, which is why
LOCALS| went in. The choice of that one was based on its having a long history
& lots of existing practice.  It's in an optional extension to the optional
Locals wordset, so it's pretty optional!
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:46:31 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-12-92 (17:25)              Number: 31037 of 31038 (Echo)
   To: GARY SMITH                    Refer#: 31020
 From: RAY DUNCAN                      Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

   >Sun's OpenBoot firmware is built on ForthMacs and thus can
   >trace its ancestry back to F83

 Thanks for this information.  I had no idea that anyone anywhere
 actually used the 680x0 version of F83 for anything.  In fact I was
 never sure that it actually existed; I heard it was supposed to be
 available, but never saw it as far as I can remember.  Anyway, I should
 have confined my comments to the x86 version of F83, for which I think
 they are quite accurate.
 <<<>>>

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From: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Object-oriented Forth, Neon/Yerk, etc.
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:52:02 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

In article <3226.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us>
	M.HORE [Mike] writes: 
+Mops is available for anonymous ftp at the same site as Yerk:
+oddjob.uchicago.edu.  I don't know if it's available on GEnie or via email. 
+(If Doug Philips is reading this, could you possibly make it available for
+email, if not done already? I'd be very grateful.)

Ok. It is now available for email access from FNEAS, ask for file: mops.cpt
As for GEnie, as you are both the author, and on GEnie, I'll leave it
to you to upload it there.

-Doug

If you would like a copy from FNEAS, send a message to:

	fneas@willett.pgh.pa.us

and put the following in the _body_ of your message:

	send file-name-not-number-just-name
	path your-Internet-relative-email-path

Notes:  You need one send command per file.
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---
Preferred:  dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us	Ok:  {pitt,sei}!willett!dwp
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:13:41 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 33
Message 9         Sat Apr 11, 1992
M.HORE [Mike]                at 05:19 EDT
 
Brian Dunn writes:

   Can a Macintosh check for events without waiting for them,
   in order to call
   PAUSE in the meantime?  On the Atari you can at least use a timeout.

Brian, I'm not heavily into Mac graphics, but I can at least answer this
question.  The Mac has a _EventAvail trap which tells you if there is an event
waiting which you are interested in.  It doesn't block until an event becomes
available -- there are separate traps for that.

-- Mike.
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Non-Forth systems/languages.
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:22 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 16
Message 61        Mon Mar 30, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 21:15 EST
 
Our PC-based polyFORTH products have had the ability to call C (or other
language) subroutines for several years.  The people I've talked to who use
this facility say it provides them an easy migration path into Forth.  Over
time they tend to convert, because the Forth modules work better with the
multitasker.
-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: for us beginners?  Help
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:08 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 03-30-92 (14:29)              Number: 30905 of 30906 (Echo)
   To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
 From: RICHARD COOKE                   Read: HAS REPLIES
 Subj: PROGRAMMING QUESTION          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 I'm new to FORTH and need some help with a small programming
 question. Can anybody show me an easy way to determine which bit
 in an 8 bit number is set if one and only one bit is set out of the
 8 ? I'd like to use the bit position as an index into a small array.
 Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
 Thanks, Richard Cooke

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:41 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 30
Message 168       Mon Mar 30, 1992
B.DUNN5 [Brian]              at 05:21 EST
 
 
 I just finished reading several hundred messages, will probably order the big
ANS book sooner or later, and have some quick comments in the meantime:

 Worrying about breaking existing code seems like a moot point since all
existing code is not ANS Forth compatable anyhow.  The existing code has to
meet the standard, the standard doesn't have to meet the existing code. ANS-
Forth is going to break code.  Bending a bit for some existing code won't help
too much.  The standard might as well move ahead unburdened by dead weight.

 An idea: The core wordset could be small.  The optional wordsets could also
be small, but there could be a large number of them.  Ex: a CASE wordset, a
DEFER wordset, a LOCALS wordset, another LOCALS wordset with a more flexible
capability, a STRUCTURES wordset, an ARRAY wordset, a GRAPHICS wordset, a
WINDOWS wordset, an OO wordset, an I/O wordset, an ONLY/ALSO wordset, and
whatever.  You need not use them.  You may make your own similar words using
ANS core and still maintain portability if the source for your custom words is
included.  You may use some super efficient alternatives, some better locals
scheme, some faster case, some native graphics.  The idea, though, is that if
you should decide to use something from an optional wordset, you may go ahead
and do so, and assume that everyone knows what the word is and does, and you
need not explain or define it.  A minimalist need not have that word in his
own Forth, but when he sees it he will know what it should do because it is in
an optional wordset which ANS Forth has standardized.

 Portability is the goal.  You need not use DEFER, but if you do, we might as
well agree on what it is and does and avoid having to include definitions of
it with ANS core words each time we use it.  CASE need not be in the core or
core extension wordsets, it may be in an optional CASE wordset. Someone may
create a Forth with core and core extension words without CASE, or with CASE
but without DEFER.  All that matters is that when a program has CASE in it,
and says it uses the optional CASE wordset, we know what it is and does.

 If ANS doesn't want to touch things such as structures, DEFER, arrays, and
graphics, the Forth Interest Group could hash out some of them and make a few
FIG wordsets.  Even if nobody implemented them, people might at least know
what they are and be able to use them in for-public programs.  How many times
have you seen a quickie definition of ARRAY or simple structures thrown into
the start of a published program?


-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:14 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-01-92 (21:10)              Number: 30927 of 30927 (Echo)
   To: E.RATHER [ELIZABETH]          Refer#: 30919
 From: JACK WOEHR                      Read: NO
 Subj: GRAPHICS, GUIS, AND EVENT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 -> It would be very appropriate for some non-ANSI group to work on
 -> graphics standards.

         Yes, perhaps the FORTH INTEREST GROUP could take the lead here
 in organizing a series of conferences on Standardizing in the wake of
 the Standard, as it were! There are many things that have to
 bee worked out by community consensus that X3J14 has not or will not or
 cannot solve.

         Vesta Technology, primarily Steve Wheeler, intend to present a
 proposal illustrating (for instance) the magnitude of the problem of
 assigned THROW codes. I personally believe that X3J14 must not try to
 "solve" this one, that it should be left to a community consensus worked
 out on a broad base by implementors.*

         *The problem with X3J14 "solving" things right now is that the
 horse scents the stable, and is racing homeward willy-nilly by "solving"
 things haphazardly in the race to achieve ANS Forth. Cooler counsel will
 prevail if certain implementation details are left to a mix of the Forth
 Interest Group, the Forth Vendor's Group and market pressure.

                 =jax=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

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From: pl@LSI1.LSI.USP.BR (Pedro Sanchez)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Jobs in Education (retry)
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:02:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: nettlera.9204152023.AA08797
Reply-To: FIGI-L%BRUSPVM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU
Organization: The Internet

>Subject: Re: Jobs in Education (retry)
>Sender: "Forth Interest Group International List (FIGI-L)"
> <FIGI-L@BRUSPVM.BITNET>
>To: Pedro Luis Prospero Sanchez <pl@lsi.usp.br>
>Reply-To: FIGI-L@BRUSPVM.BITNET
>Message-Id: <D012ADE8A0005589@brfapesp.bitnet>
>Comments: To: uunet!lsiserv2.lsi.usp.br!figi-l@uunet.UU.NET
>Comments: cc: pjk@scm.tp.ac.uk
>
>Peter, and all who read this,
>
>I believe the article to which I'm replying was posted before; I'm not sure
>    if my reply was posted or not.  I believe it wasn't, so I'll reiterate it
>    here:


I am sorry guys, the message was sent again from an old delivery queue
when I was restarting the listserver.

With apologies,
               Pedro.
=========================================================================
Prof. Pedro Luis Prospero Sanchez    internet: pl@lsi.usp.br (PREFERRED)
University of Sao Paulo                        plpsanch@lion.cce.usp.br
Escola Politecnica                     bitnet: plpsanch@bruspvm
Dept.of Electronic Engineering          uunet: uunet!vme131!pl
phone: (055)(11)211-4574  fax: (055)(11)815-4272  home: (055)(11)914-9756
=========================================================================
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: FIG Chapters
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:22:44 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-10-92 (09:49)              Number: 31062 of 31065 (Echo)
   To: RJ BROWN                      Refer#: 30989
 From: JACK WOEHR                      Read: NO
 Subj: FIG IN OH; ROCHESTER          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 -> Hey Jax, I am interested in whether there exists a fig chapter in
 -> either Cincinnati Ohio, or Dayton Ohio.  I am getting ready to start
 -> a consulting gig in Cincinnati, and would be in town to attend
 -> meetings if there were any.  Who do I ask.

         It's in the back of most issues of _FORTH Dimensions_. Dayton
 Chapter meets 2nd Tuesday and 4th Wednesday, 6 PM, CFC 11 W. Monument
 Avenue, #612. Contact Gary Ganger, (513) 849-1483.

 -> (My FIG membership died a
 -> couple of years ago due to inability to be active anywhere, but the
 -> interest still remains.)

         Well, re-up, soldier, we need the dough! :-)

 ->  Also, I see you are speaking in Rochester
 -> this spring.  I hope to get up there and meet you in person.

         Looking forward to that, RJ!

         =jax=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth in print
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:11:18 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 03-22-92 (17:17)              Number: 30842 of 30843 (Echo)
   To: JACK WOEHR                    Refer#: NONE
 From: KEVIN BRUNDAGE                  Read: 03-22-92 (20:46) HAS REPLIES
 Subj: COMMENT                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 Hey Jack,
 I noticed in the latest FORTH dimensions that you have a new pub out.
 I'd love to get a copy, but it didn't show up on the FIG order form :(.
 Where can I get my copy for the low low price of $25?  Thanks, Kev

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

 Date: 03-22-92 (20:46)              Number: 30843 of 30843 (Echo)
   To: KEVIN BRUNDAGE                Refer#: 5218
 From: JACK WOEHR                      Read: NO
 Subj: SEEING FORTH                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 You can get _Seeing Forth_ from Dr. Ting at Offete Enterprises.

         =jax=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for Forth!
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:59 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 33
Message 5         Sun Apr 05, 1992
B.DUNN5 [Brian]              at 02:18 EST
 
  I have an implementation of the graphics primatives I listed earlier about
ready for the Atari ST, using low level AES and VDI calls.  It does some
things I havn't seen in commercial Atari Forths, including window relative
drawing ( easy ), multitasking via PAUSE while waiting for an event ( possible
problem to clear up later ), and drawing to any window at any time ( took some
doing ).

All of this makes me wish for XWindows...

When this is cleaned up a bit and the system dependant stuff has been factored
out, it should be almost ready to be ported to other systems.

There hasn't been any comment on the list of words I left a while ago, so
perhaps it's all a moot point anyhow.

Does it make more sense to assume a 16K by 16K virtual pixel space on all
machines and end up with non-circular circles due to aspect ratios and such,
or does it make more sense to do like XWindows, and do all graphics with fixed
pixel coordinates which might happen to go off the edge of the screen?

Can a Macintosh check for events without waiting for them, in order to call
PAUSE in the meantime?  On the Atari you can at least use a timeout.

Add to the list of words to support: START_WINDOWS to do system setup things,
and WINDOW_TO_TOP to bring an arbitrary window to the top.

Does ANS Forth have a command for converting an address to a relocatable token
and back?

A clever trick: if you assume that the first few colors added with ADD_COLOR
are full intensity versions of various colors, then the system can use fill
patterns to shade these full intensity colors to other less intensity colors,
which will be useful on systems with only 4, 16, 32 or so colors active at a
time.  Thus, if you add the background, foreground, red, green, blue, and a
few other common colors, then start adding the 60 shades of red, 60 shades of
green, and so on, you might get acceptable results on systems with limited
color pallettes.

Would it be worth trying to standardize close boxes, scroll bars, full boxes,
and maybe menus?

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:18 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 15
Message 82        Mon Apr 06, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 01:03 EDT
 
The Forth Vendors Group exists technically; I am its President.  It has a
small bank balance, which it has used as a clearing house for paying X3J14
clerical expenses (mailings, etc.) while members & observers were billed.  The
objective is to break even.  It has been inactive for at least 5 years
because, IMHO, none of the vendors had time to make it do anything useful.
-----
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Files on-line
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:12:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: willett.3265.UUL1.3#5129
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 1,  Topic 3
Message 143       Thu Apr 09, 1992
D.RUFFER [Dennis]            at 23:01 EDT
 
>>> New File <<<

  No. File Name      Type Address       YYMMDD    Bytes Accesses Lib
 2609 FWORD.ZIP       X   B.SUTTON1     920408   207232      1     6
    Desc: F-PC Word Processor/formatter

This is a word processor written in F-PC.  It comes ready
 to configure for a STAR NX1000 printer, but can be easily
 adapted to most EPSON or IBM compatible printers.  Other
 printers can be used also, with a little effort.
 Source code is included.  This is basically a test run,
 but it should be readily workable by anyone casually familiar
 with Forth.

Keywords: f-pc,word processor,formatter,text,fpc,NX1000

[ If you would like a copy of any of these files via email, send email
  to 'fneas@willett.pgh.pa.us'.  Binary files are UUencoded and split
  before mailing.  In the body of your message, include the lines:
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