HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Grand Pennsic
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:17:17 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Greetings, good gentles --

The recent attempt to change the Pennsic Wars into "Grand Pennsic" 
(to try to coin a phrase) at Pennsic XXI is an interesting one.
I believe the intention of the change was to minimize ill-will
between the combattants and to recognize the fact that Pennsic
has become something more like a cross between a great medieval
fair and a grand tournament.  Considering the event a "Grand
Tournament" rather than a "war" may well be a good thing.

I'd like something cleared up, however.  As modern people, we think of
"tournaments" as "all in fun" and "wars" as being "terrible" and "bloody."
My surmise is that tournaments were every bit as rancorous and nasty as
many wars (thogh with fewer dead peasants) and that wars were often 
more civilized than our contemporary notions of "total war" (I'm thinking
about the notion of ransoming prisoners being more valuable than killing
them, for example).

My guess is that the tournaments were about as spirited as a hotly
contested European soccer match these days -- only players as well
as fans would end up dead.

Still, I would love to hear more on the topic from those who have
studied it -- please confirm or deny my suspicions, if you would.

On a related subject -- what percentage of the available population
_could_ medieval leaders bring to a battle?  If too many lives were
lost (given the number of work hours needed to bring in crops) then
might not _everyone_ starve in the following year?  There appear to
be some fascinating connections between agricultural improvements
(moldboard/steel-bladed plows, three-field crop rotation) and an
area's ability to wage war (based, in part, on a greater number of
calories produced per hour of labor, allowing a larger population
and therefore larger armies...).

I look forward to others' comments and observations.

Much obliged   -- Bertram --

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Great Court
Date: 19 Aug 1992 18:51:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <14920819133941.0003900943PK2EM@mcimail.com> 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin) writes:
>
>It was quite amusing to see Arval as Jade's herald.  (But Arval, doesn't
>the West say "Hoobah" or some such instead of "Vivat"?)

No it doesn't, then.  We say "Hip, Hip, Hurrah" x 3.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:38:17 GMT

In article <01GNIAVZEQTC9N41OL@MEDCOR.MCGILL.CA> DAVID@bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca writes:
>Does anybody know where the magical 70 foot-pounds came from?

It looks suspiciously like 2-1/4 feet (i.e. 28 inches) times 30 lbs.

One rather suspects that it was concocted to compare crossbows (with
their shorter string displacement) to other types of bow, once the
30-pounds-at-no-more-than-28-inch-arrow was settled on.

All of which means that it doesn't represent *anything* real--rather
like having a large sailboat that 'measures' "12 meters".

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: How long does it take?
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:50:35 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Berwynn wrote:

> Since we are a new group, and our seneschale and her husband are the only
> ones with much SCA experience (13 yrs in East), we are a bit concerned
> about how long things take around here.  For example,  We organized our
> group in February and sent all the requisite paperwork to the regional
> seneschale, including confirmation of subscribing members.  Just LAST WEEK
> we finaly learned that we have been recognized as an _incipient_ group,

> Have new grups elsewhere experienced similar delays, or is this something
> peculiar to the Midrealm?

What you've experienced is not particularly unusual.  Consider the
paperwork trail: You fill out the incipient branch forms, and send them to
your regional seneschal.  That officer gets the package a few days later
(or more), checks everything to make sure that it is correct, and if
everything is ready, he sends it off to his superior.  If he needs to check
any of your information, it may take a few days.  Once he's ready, he
probably doesn't send it right away, but waits for his next regular package
of paperwork.  It isn't unreasonable to expect a delay of two or three
weeks.  Add a few more days mailing delay.  There may be one more step
before the paperwork gets to the kingdom seneschal.  Once he gets your
package, he has to re-verify everything, file it, and make the necessary
changes to the regnum.  He may have a policy of delaying these
announcements for a month or two to see if the group really has enough
impetus to survive - many is the group that has been listed one month only
to fold the next.  Regnum is published in the kingdom newsletter, and there
is probably a five- to eight-week delay between the time your information
gets to the chronicler and the publication of the next available issue.  At
best, I'd expect this process to take three months; given that all these
officers are volunteers with real lives to manage, four or five months is
not unreasonable.

You case is little longer than that and if you didn't receive any
intermediate correspondance, then you do have reason to make mention of it.
But, basically, things take time in a decentralized, volunteer
organization.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Instructions for ancient
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:17:50 -0500

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

WH> He also has fun with the inevitable American question "What clan . . .?"

Once in a while I go to Celtic festivals, Highland Games, and so on, tho far
as I know, I haven't got a drop of Celtic blood in me.  Inevitably, some twit
will assume that I do.

 Him:  "What clan are ye from, laddy?"
 Me (in worst possible fake Scottish accent):  "Destine".
 Him:  "Och, Ay've nayver heard o' that one!"
 Me:  "O' course no', ye fool, Clan Destine's a saicret!  An' nao tha' Ay've
      tol' ye, Ay've got to kill ye!"

WH> He looks the questioner coldly in the eye and says "Stuart."

WH> [...] amazing how many people who ask that
WH> question don't know what the answer means.)

I'm not entirely sure myself.  Something about royalty, yes?

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: Kids
Date: 11 Aug 92 12:12:23 GMT
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix

I appreciate your frustration with the local media.  Having been involved
in a number of groups (Community theatre, etc.) whos activities were
covered by the area rag which seldom got anything right, my sympathies are
with you.  I would strongly suggest a _carefully_ worded letter to the
editor explaining the errors in the article.  Such might even prompt them
to do a feature.
When our group was first forming this winter, we placed a 2-line notice in
the 'community calendar', and was called by the papres society  editor for
an interview.  We got a nice quarter-page write up, although we got a
chuckle out of her headline:

  "Society For Creative Anacronism Discourages Jousting on Horseback"

-- 
Berwynn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic XXII
Keywords: Dates for Pennsic in 1993; Planning vacation leave
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:36:50 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

The final weekend of Pennsic is the third weekend in August.  A weekend
"in August" is defined as one containing a Saturday in August, so in the 
case of August 1 being a Sunday, that weekend doesn't count and the 
first weekend is the 7th-8th.

Ellisif
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heralds for Hire in Pittsburgh/BMDL Area
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:43:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714411360.F00004

dy>  From: dylan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
dy>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
dy>
dy>  Unto the Rialto, greetings!
dy>
dy>  I just heard on the radio that the Pittsburgh newspapers
dy>  which are entering their 4th month in a strike are trying
dy>  a new tactic to distribute their news:  they are auditioning
dy>  for 'Town Criers'

This just hit our local TV news yesterday. The wigs, etc. seem not to have 
been forthcoming, but I did see one fellow in Renaissance garb. He had to 
either be one of "us", or an actor. Nice voice, too...

Everybody else seemed to be in street clothes, T-shirts, jeans, 
what-have-you.

Funny way to run a newspaper!

Moreach
From: aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Searching for Long Lost Friends
Date: 14 Aug 92 04:07:41 GMT
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix

My non-computing seneschal has asked me to try this medium so she might
make contact with long lost friends from the East Kingdom.  She is:
Lady Alys of Lynnencore van Schaack (Lin Knickerbocker) married to Lord
Jan Friederich van Schaack (tim).  Any info on the whereabouts of the
following indiviuals would be most appreciiated:
   
    Eofn ap Erwyn
    Morwydd
    George Emerson True (Thomas ??)
    Any member of the House Phoenix from Concordia.

many thankx,
    Berwynn


-- 
Berwynn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy
From: moss@cs.umass.edu (Eliot Moss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drachenwald to be kingdom
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:44:19 GMT
Reply-To: moss@cs.umass.edu
Organization: Dept of Comp and Info Sci, Univ of Mass (Amherst)
In-reply-to: mittle@watson.ibm.com's message of 19 Aug 92 18:25:32 GMT

Arval> It occurs to me that I haven't seen mention of what may have been the
Arval> most interesting piece of court business at Pennsic.  At Great Court,
Arval> the Prince and Princess of Drachenwald presented their petition for
Arval> kingdom status.  It was met with universal acclaim.  The current plan
Arval> calls for Drachenwald to be the 13th kingdom by Pennsic XXII.

Arval> At this news, Eastern Great Officers were seen to roll in the aisles
Arval> with glee, giggling hysterically.

Arval> Well, maybe not REALLY, but I'll bet they wanted to!

Mistress Sedalia (East Kingdom Seneschale) seemed happy enough! She mentioned
how great it will be for her telephone bill to go down.

Of course now we can start speculating as to when Aethelmarc (the relatively
new principality in the western part of the East) is likely to be a separate
kingdom. And of course that leads to: what about the northeastern part of the
East, which is now seriously considering principality status. Looks as if
their might be a lot of king-making in the coming years!

			Aell Aethelwita, called Ellethel
			Barony of Bergental, East
--

		J. Eliot B. Moss, Associate Professor
		Department of Computer Science
		Lederle Graduate Research Center
		University of Massachusetts
		Amherst, MA  01003
		(413) 545-4206, 545-1249 (fax); Moss@cs.umass.edu
From: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fire Screens (was Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:14:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.59784
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Greetings unto the rialto from Dafydd ap Gwystl.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin writes:
>Dorothy Hartley's _Food in England_ (which covers things besides food)
>shows pictures of straw archery targets, retired from the range, soaked
>in water, and set up beside the fireplace, to protect the cooks from
>some of the heat of the cookfires.  She also says these screens were used
>by ladies doing needlework by the fire, [...]

Does Hartley say _why_ she thinks these fire screens are soaking wet old
archery targets?  If I remember correctly the Tres Riches Heures du
Duc de Berry (1415?) includes an illumination (December?) showing a wicker
screen being used to shield the Duc's tender posterior from the direct
heat of the fire.  Several things would lead be to believe that Hartley's
surmise is very unlikely:

--there are far more fires than archery butts.  If such a shield was
        useful, lots of fires would have to make do with something
        else, as there wouldn't be enough butts to go around.
--archery butts are bulky things, and heavy, and not well suited to
        the task
--wet archery butts are even heavier and more awkward (and more stinky).
--old archery butts are often close to falling apart--the center is
        saggy, and heavily pierced, and falling out of the supporting
        weave.  They are also stinky, and (if they've been left out)
        may be rotting.
--it wouldn't be much work to weave a wicker shield as I think I
        remember from Duc de Berry (could someone please look in
        their copy and check my memory?).
--wetting down the archery butt would seem unnecessary: as Dorothea
        mentions Hartley mentioning (in a deleted part of her note)
        paper screens are used for this purpose in Eliz. England
        (according to Hartley).  I know that such paper screens were
        used in 17th and 18th century homes in Charleston, SC.  If
        the paper screens could be used without burning (these were
        painted screens, so they probably weren't wetted down), then
        wicker would probably do fine too.
--a wicker screen might well have been taken by Hartley to be an old
        archery butt (alright, I admit, this is pure surmise).

Mistress Dorothea, could you check the pictures that Hartley shows,
and see if the pictures maintain Hartley's claim that they are
archery butts?  Call me a skeptic, but it seems that the more
reasonable explanation is that Ms. Hartley misidentified an innocent
wicker fire shield and then constructed this "wet archery butt"
idea.


        Dafydd ap Gwystl                        David Kuijt
        Barony of Storvik                       kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu
        Kingdom of Atlantia                     (MD,DC,VA,NC,SC)
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:05:54 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles --

My apologies -- I wrote:

> The final attendance count was just under 7300 (I think) 

I _meant_ "the final attendance count was just under *8300*"

This is about a 400 person increase over last year.

Sorry for the mistake!

My best -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:32:00 -0500

> Pity the allied kings didn't hear about it until the last minute.  I
> don't know how the Middle has been treating it, but Eastern courts and
> published letters from royalty have been making it pretty clear out here
> that there was intent to change the slant somewhat.
 
Changing the slant is one thing, changing our lovely little annual war into a
poof-da tourney is nearly criminal...  <g> It would have been *so* much more fun
to win the War this year than merely placing first in a tourney. (Must have
missed the 'published bits' -- Milpitas seems determined to forget my existance
this year and I haven't seen a Pikestaff in months...)
 
To some of us, the point of honor was significant -- and I personally doubt that
changing the name of the event had *anything* to do with the apparent
improvement of relations between the combatants off the field. I just hope this
doesn't start a trend and that I can count on going to the XXII Pennsic WAR next
year instead of the 2nd Pennsic Tiff... ;)
 
Lord Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall
House Rivendell, Bowman's Rest
From: Katherine.Christensen@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Katherine Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Kids, Halflings, Goslings, Smalls...
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:35:08 GMT

LE:  I hope we never have to resort to the measures that the local SF
conventions did to handle this exact problem.
 
LE:  They set up an area with a licensed commercial babysitter and
notified people people that they could leave their kids there at (rate
schedule).  Or they could keep their kids with them.  Any unattended 
smalls were sent to the area and the parents were charged for the time 
at the applicable rates.
 
Greetings!  My name is Margaret Pearce, and I'm from Ansteorra.  I've 
been lurking here on and off for a while.  I hadn't planned to post,
but your post got my attention.
 
I would LOVE it if the SCA adopted that policy!  As it is, I hardly ever
bring my children to events, because I'm usually committed to doing 
something or other, and I won't know if what I'm planning will dovetail 
with Ministry of Children activities.  Parents are told over and over 
that the Ministry of Children is not a babysitting service, and I act
accordingly.  I have no wish to burden a volunteer with children who 
may or may not be interested in being there.  But someone who is *paid*
to be there - well, that lowers the guilt factor considerably.  I
wouldn't have to juggle babysitters, childcare centers, and out-of-town
father every time I go to an event.  I wouldn't have to tell people,
"Well, I'm not sure if I can go to X event, because I'm having trouble
lining up childcare."  And my kids would get to experience more of the
SCA, because I'm obviously not going to leave them in childcare 24 hours
a day - just when I'm field heralding, say.
 
As for someone who discovers that their unattended child has been whisked
off to childcare - well, I agree that it would be something of a shock,
but less of a shock than discovering that the child had been whisked
off by someone whose intentions were less benign.  Perhaps it would give
parents incentive to stay attuned to their kids.  If the kids didn't
like the babysitter, it might give the kids incentive to stay close to
their parents.
 
I do see a potential problem with establishing age guidelines.  Obviously,  an eighteen month-old needs to be attended.  Obviously, a twenty year-old can't be forced into being attended (though some circumstances might
cause some people to wish otherwise :)  ).  But where do you draw the
line?  If I ask my eight year-old to walk past the list field and   purchase a drink, will someone on the other side of the list field
decide that he's unattended?
 
Still, I think it's a great idea that paid babysitting be available at
events.  I'd even be willing to sign up for it in advance.  And bring
toys.  And an apple for the teacher.
  
Margaret

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Subject: Pennsic Great Court
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:39:00 GMT

Greetings from Jessa d'Avondale!

Was anyone paying close attention to the West Kingdom Court on Saturday
night?  I would like to nominate, for "Separated at Birth", Master Arval
and King Jade.  Not only are they roughly the same height and shape,
not only do they bear more than a passing resemblance to each other
(hair color/style and beards), but they even have some of the same
speech patterns and mannerisms.  (And King Jade spent some time in our
camp, so I did hear him speak for more than a few minutes.)

It was quite amusing to see Arval as Jade's herald.  (But Arval, doesn't
the West say "Hoobah" or some such instead of "Vivat"?)

Coquettishly yours,

Jessa
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald to be kingdom
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:57:09 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  I wrote:

> At Great Court, the Prince and Princess of Drachenwald presented their
> petition for kingdom status.  It was met with universal acclaim.  The
> current plan calls for Drachenwald to be the 13th kingdom by Pennsic
> XXII. 

> At this news, Eastern Great Officers were seen to roll in the aisles with
> glee, giggling hysterically.

Some people seem to have overlooked the word "glee", and concluded that the
Eastern officers might not be in favor of this separation.  Perish the
thought; they are in unanimous support.  There is no officer I've ever met
who would hesitate to leap at the prospect of reducing his workload and
phone bill by 30%.

Hal noted that one Board member concurred with the timing of elevation that
I mentioned; that's not surprising, since Drachenwald's future was one of
the main topics of discussion during the Board's recent trip to Germany.
At this point, everyone seems to be agreed that this thing will happen.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: rose@sequent.com (Lori Rose Malczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Susan Francis seeking 'Black Tailor'
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:39:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug12.153939.26964
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

A friend of mine wants to get in touch with a current(?) SCA member.
His mundane name is Brynley Dolman and was last known to be living
in the Seattle area.  Please respond if you can help.
-- 
Lori (rose) Malczyk
rose@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca