HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Pythagorean Reform Church
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:00:35 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

In article <92247.115437HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET> <HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
>Is is possible to join the Reformed Pythagorean Reform Church which still
>allows the eating of beans?

Yes the restriction on bean eating will most likely be removed :-)

-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Bush no friend of atheists (but Clinton no better)
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:40:22 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: de5.ctd.ornl.gov

What about Andre Marrou?  I'd guess the Libertarian stand on religion is that it
should have nothing to do with governmment, but I'm curious about Marrou's
religious beliefs

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)	   For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Famous Atheists?
Date: 25 Aug 92 01:30:09 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Aug22.015120.9012@cco.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu
(Keith Allan Schneider) wrote:
> I think that Jefferson, for example, was a Deist.  Thomas Paine, however,
> was clearly an atheist.  His religion was "to do good."

Someone please correct me, but reading Paine's books and articles
I got the feeling he was a Deist, however not an active one.

In general many of the founding fathers were Freemasons and Deists,
and it was in their interest to make sure that the country would 
not suddenly end up in a bloody civil war based on religion. There
was one in civil rights, and we could in the worst end up with
another one if the inner city problems are not resolved. 

It clearly shows that countries where the population consists of many
current/former cultures should try to achieve a political system
that tolerates any cultural aspect. This includes minorities
such as homosexuals and non-Christian religions. Republicans,
take note.

If you don't think this is the case, watch CNN daily and see the
horrors when Muslims and Christians fight over the control of 
former Yugoslavia.

Cheers,
Kent
---
"George, sorry but I do look much better in my running shorts than you and
Bill..."
From: skroger@zeus.calpoly.edu (Seth L. Kroger)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: LIFE GOES ON UNTIL YOU DIE
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:20:03 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:
>Graham Matthews writes
>>Can you back up the claim that the senses have limited band-width?
>
>Well, I can't see infrared or X-rays with my unaided eyes. I can use
>instruments to extend my vision, but I don't see how we'll ever
>perceive with unlimited bandwidth, or know that we are doing so. 

I thinki that's the point.  We can use instruments that can extend our
natural senses.

>>Pete you may be confusing variety with complexity. Think about it!
>
>Something capable of producing the variety we see in life would have
>to be fairly complex, if not in its components, at least in its
>operation. 

The combination of mutation, recombonation, natural selection, and genetic
drift.  (I'm I missing any?)  Each is fairly simple in their own right.
Take a look at the weather.  All it's variety is from simple Newtonian
mechanics and thermodynamics.  But it's still a real pain to predict it.

>Peter M. Yadlowsky              |  Wake! The sky is light!


|======================================================================|
| Seth Kroger                       "If God made us in His image we    |
| skroger@pan.calpoly.edu               have certianly returned the    |
| Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo             compliment."  -Voltaire        |
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: LIFE GOES ON UNTIL YOU DIE
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:29:29 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Aug24.080325.526@maths.tcd.ie> djohn@maths.tcd.ie (Derek John) writes:
>I'm interested to know how atheists cope with death.If youre like me
>and believe that death means the total extinction of consciousness
>how do you cope with it?

I just went through the death of someone very close to me - my cousin, 17
years old. My family is rather conservative and religious. I just had a lot
of exactly this kind of harassment. I also had to really examine my own
beliefs very closely.

Death to me is just the logical conclusion of life. Nothing happens after
that.  The only things that go on are the memories that other people have of
you, and that's what makes life worth living. (If I didn't think my
existence had a positive effect on someone else, I would terminate myself,
because there is no point in burdening this earth and its inhabitants with
yet another life. If I were to suddenly drop dead right now, I certainly
wouldn't have any fears or worries!)

One person in this situation became angry, feeling that her death was
senseless, without meaning. He wanted someone to blame, and his belief in
"God" was it. I tried to convince him that this anger was self-destructive
and pointless, and that he should try to accept what happened and go on with
his life.  I don't know if I had any effect.

My family does now believe that atheists can be good people, with morals,
without any need for the fear of divine retribution. I suppose things are
looking up.

So I don't grieve for my cousin, for I know that hers was a fulfilled life.
I grieve for her parents, for the expectations they had; and for myself,
for I wouldn't have the joy of her company any more.

-s
--
  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
  "Take this cross and garlic; here's a Mezuzah if he's Jewish; a page of the
    Koran if he's a Muslim; and if he's a Zen Buddhist, you're on your own."
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Subject: Re: Stephen Hawking - National Public Radio
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:47:14 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <ksand-240892202955@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.154527.25699@walter.bellcore.com>,
>arturo@alcor.bellcore.com (A. Cisneros) wrote:
>> There was a story this morning on National Public Radio (U.S.)
>> on Stephen Hawking. It ended with what appeared to be a quote
>> attributed to him: "Then we will know the mind of God".
>> 
>> What concerms me about this is that it tends to attribute
>> to Hawking a belief he apparently does not hold. I read
>> "A Brief History of Time" and it is pretty clear to me that
>> he does not believe in a personal god. Is there anyone who
>> knows him that can tell us whether Hawking uses "God"
>> metaphorically for Nature? Is the NPR report inaccurate?
>
>A TV program abut Hawking gave us a good insight into how
>his wife -- a Christian -- was worried that Hawking was not
>convinced that a God had created the universe. And that his
>theories might suddenly kill the notion of a creator based
>Big Bang (note, not Band!). While Stephen pointed out the view
>that Big Band could be explained scientifically. I got the feeling
>he was either a skeptic or a true agnostic/atheist.
>
>It also showed that families where the parts have opposite world views
>works! Take note, Bush, family values at it's best.
>
>Cheers,
>Kent
>Bill..."
This was the condluding sentence of "A Brief History of Time"
  If we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be under-
  standable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists.
  Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people,
  be able to take part in the discussion of why it is that we and the 
  universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the 
  ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we would truly
  know the mind of God.



-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: The universe as "God"
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 11:20:31 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug31.204702.14204@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>Evangelism:
> Take the wonders of science to the heathen, working "miracles" and
> praising maxwells equations. (I can imagine the look on someones face
> when you hand them a copy of QED in an airport)

I'm afraid it would probably backfire.  My best friend has one of
those t-shirts that says, on the back, "And God said [Maxwell's
equations in derivative form] and there was light...."

As she was taking me to the airport one day, a woman with whom we had
a slight conversation (can't recall exactly why we were talking to her
in the first place) noticed this and said, "Oh...you're a Christian,
too?"

My friend is an atheist...she has the shirt because she's an
astrophysicist.  I have one that says "Vector Spaces Are Free" because
I'm a mathematician.

>Bible study groups:
> Meet every sunday night to discuss the theory of relativity or the
> latest scientific discoveries.

>So does any one want to join :-)

Sounds like the Unitarian/Universalists beat ya to it.

;-)

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: graham@maths.su.oz.au (Graham Matthews)
Subject: Re: Islamic revolution
Organization: School of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Sydney
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:05:52 GMT

(Ridha Souissi) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug21.093950.18878@bradford.ac.uk> L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk (Leonard Newnham) writes:
>>>
>>>Well Ridha, we have had the Koran quoted courtesy of Saddiqui.
>>>
>>
>[deleted]
>>One more thing
>>is that it is very difficult to translate some words of the
>>Qur'an which is in Arabic.

If the words in the so called scientific passages of the Quran are so hard
to translate then how do you know that these passages talk about science
at all! Come on - be consistent!

... and honest ...

graham
--
Graham Matthews                 And it's true we are immune
Pure Math, Uni.Sydney, Oz       When fact is fiction and T.V. is reality
graham@maths.su.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: LORD, LIAR, OR LUNATIC?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:39:16 GMT

In article <BtLztn.MwK@apollo.hp.com> perry@apollo.hp.com (Jim Perry) writes:
}In article <1992Aug26.185419.22227@meaddata.com> joyce@meaddata.com  writes:
}>Ok, everyone, due to the numerous responses to my post, I've changed
}>my mind and decided to re-visit this newsgroup. Responses also do not
}>need to be e-mailed to me, I just find that I'm repeating myself a lot
}>in responding to people individually. So I've decided to save myself
}>time and just post and also to explain the arguments I have obtained
}>in greater depth than I have in my previous posting.
}
}Or, to phrase it another way, to copy large chunks of text
}unattributed from Josh McDowell.  We know Josh here, and he is held in
}the lowest possible esteem.  He is intellectually dishonest (you seem
}to be learning from him).

Seems so.

}>--------------To be continued--------------------------------------
}
}Please don't bother, unless you have something original to contribute.
}We've seen Evidence_That_Demands_a_Verdict, and found it lacking.  

If you care for mt review, email me.  Include a good email path, and have a
lot of disk space (it is over 3500 lines long).


Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: LORD, LIAR, OR LUNATIC?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:44:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.174621.11005@meaddata.com> joyce@meaddata.com writes:
}You guys are all mistaken. I don't even own a copy of "Evidence That
}Demands a Verdict."

Then I guess that either:
1) You are copying from one that you do not own.
2) You are a liar
	or
3) There is a thief (of intellectual property, since you appear to be
claiming a second source of something that is almost verbatum from
McDowell's junk).

And if you come up with an alternative, you may see a way that an alternative
would destroy your argument.


Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: Possible Real World Evidence for why Religions Exist
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 09:10:32 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli

In article <29AUG199212365870@elroy.uh.edu> st1lv@elroy.uh.edu (McLeod, Stephen) writes:
>CNN reported that insurance data indicated that Nevada had the worst health 
>data in the country, due to its 'party' atmosphere towns, smoking, 
>drinking, staying up all night and so on.

Who are these Nevadans who "smoke, drink, and stay up all night"?

I lived in Las Vegas, NV for 5 over 5 years.  People who live in Las
Vegas don't live "in" Las Vegas.  They live in "The Greater Las Vegas
Area."  They don't go to the Strip that often (yeah...they go more
often than the average citizen of the United States, but they don't
live like tourists.)

I'd suggest, rather, that it's the "Henderson Cloud" that causes more
health problems for citizens of Las Vegas than downtown (however, I am
neglecting to factor in those people who work directly in downtown...
the dealers who have to work in smoke-filled casinos, f'rinstance.)

I do agree, however, with a previous poster:  If your religion tells
you to not do things that are bad for you, then you have an incentive
for not doing those things that a person without the religion doesn't
have.  However, that doesn't mean that you need the religion to
convince you not to do them.

>A religious society seems more internally cohesive and perhaps internally 
>moral (honest and kind to others who follow the same religion) while 
>capable of external inhuman cruelty.  

Any group that has the same general philosophy is going to be more
internally cohesive than a group that has widely differing
philosophies.  Whether or not they are capable of external inhuman
cruelty depends upon how they react to those who have different
philosophies.

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Frank E. Doss)
Subject: Re: Complete proof of Gregg Skinner's dishonesty
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:27:10 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

I have had a few a.a and e-mail debates with Gregg over the months.  I
have NEVER seen anything from Gregg to show that he is dishonest.  Gregg
states what he thinks to be true.  If he becomes convinced that his
position is wrong, he will admit it.  Hardly a sign of dishonesty.

Take care,

-- 
Frank E. Doss                            Academic Computing
csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu                    Eastern Illinois University
From: NETOPRWA@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Famous Atheists?
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:55:30 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Aug21.151452.26386@nmsu.edu>
amerritt@dante.nmsu.edu (Angela Merritt) writes:
>
>Sorry if this is a FAQ but does anyone know of any
>famous atheists?  I was thinking more of political
>or historical figures rather than 'movie stars'.
>I understand that some of our founding fathers
>in america appeared to be non-christian by some
>of the quotes I've read.
 
Correct- many of the founding fathers were at least marginally Deists,
which isn't too far from atheism, with a "Nature's God" which has little
effect on the affairs of men.
 
Famous atheists include (from memory):
 
Robert G. Ingersoll: famous orator and lawyer
 
James Lick: Built the first astronomical observatory in US
 
Clara Barton: founded the Red Cross
 
Susan B. Anthony, Matilda Joslyn Gage, and many other founders of the
Women's Suffrage movement were at least anticlerical, if not outright
atheists.
 
Andrew Carnegie: founded public library system(?) and other philanthropic
ventures
 
H.L. Mencken: newspaper columnist and satirist
 
Clarence Darrow: lawyer famous for Scopes "Monkey Trial", as well as
labor and union cases
 
Col. Ethan Allen: Revolutionary war hero
 
Voltaire: Swiss noble, author, scientist, and critic
 
Charles Bradlaugh: English parlaiment member
 
Modern-day people that I know of, that are atheists:
 
Stephen Hawkings
Penn and Teller
Paula Poundstone
Katherine Hepburn
 
>                          I have also heard that
>the word "God" was not in the original pledge of
>allegiance or printed on our money?  Does anyone
>know about this?  Does anyone have any good books
>to recommend about the history of religion in our
>government (usa)?
 
The pledge itself has only been around since the turn of the century, and
it has been modified several times.  The inclusion of "One Nation Under God"
in the pledge, changing the national motto to "In God We Trust", as well as
the law requiring the same motto on all US money, was passed as part of the
anti-communist hysteria in the mid 1950s.  (Note that "In God We Trust" can
be found on various coins much earlier, but it was not required by law until
the 50s)
 
American Atheist Press has many good books and pamphlets on these subjects.
Check the FAQ for the address.
 
Wayne Aiken                                            "You can BE what
PO Box 30904            slack@ncsu.edu                  you WON'T!!"
Raleigh, NC  27622                                       --"Bob"
(919) 782-8171          StarFleet BBS: (919) 782-3095
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Pythagorean Reform Church
From: <HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 3 Sep 1992 11:54:37 MDT
Organization: Brigham Young University

Is is possible to join the Reformed Pythagorean Reform Church which still
allows the eating of beans?
From: mayne@sync.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism.moderated
Subject: Re: Rushdie & Blaspemy
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:58:06 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@nu.cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department

In article <emu-ul08.cg.1992.0825.094111.njmag@tuda.ncl.ac.uk> J.M.A.Gilman@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
>Tilo Levante writes :                                  
>.    2. Can we understand why some people want to punish/kill him?
>.       How would other groups react in similar cases?
>
>        In answer to the second sentence : 
>Everybody knows the terrible dangers people face in attacking the
>Christian faith. Writers find threateningly large pay checks in 
>the post, blaspheming film directors are often assaulted with
>blunt leaflets, and, if encountering believers, may suffer a DARN
>GOOD TELLING OFF !!!...
>        Seriously, although there ARE a few (probably already 
>unbalanced) people who overreact to their (Christian) Faith being
>attacked, I think we can all agree that it's safer on the whole
>to attack Christianity from WITHIN a 'Christian' society, than
>it is to attack Islam from 1000's of miles away...

Well said. Therein lies the essential difference which those defending
Islam in this thread seem unable to grasp.

>Robert A.Heinlein
>(Job, a comedy of Justice, Stranger in a Strange Land) died of old
>age. So, I'd guess, will Martin Scorsese (unless he does
>a film on the Blasphemous Temptations of Muhammad, that is).

Even in earlier less tolerant times Thomas Paine at least kept his
head. Bertrand Russell died of old age (98). There are many examples.

Bill Mayne
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism.moderated
Subject: Re: Sunday Liquor Sales
Date: 25 Aug 92 14:18:44 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA

In article <sbuckley.714683799@sfu.ca> Stephen Buckley <sbuckley@sfu.ca> writes:

   >Stephen Buckley writes:
   >  [omit]
   >>  again, i don't want to come out and prohibit sunday work.  this is how i
   >>see it.  i'd like to first be able to express an opinion, give good reasons
   >>why i feel we should not work on sunday and hope enough people in our culture
   >>will agree and change the rules and laws.  

   >Are you saying that the majority *does* have the right to impose their
   >will on the minority for purely religous reasons?  Would it be okay if
   >the majority decided there should be a law requiring attendance every
   >week in a Christian church? (Or any church for that matter).  

   well, no because that would go against people's religious freedom.

And prohibitions against Sunday work *don't* violate people's religious
freedom?  Try asking an observant Jew or Muslim or anyone else who
doesn't observe a sabbath on Sunday about that.

If I took your argument and replaced "Sunday" with "Wednesday", would it
change your opinion one bit?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu