HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Question on Seeker...
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:31:32 GMT

In article <C16I9o.Fz4@inews.Intel.COM> dmccart@gomez.intel.com (D. J. McCarthy) writes:
>>>> "Are you going to do X or answer no to this question?"
>>> One cannot
>>> determine whether a "no" answer to this question is true or not.
>> Seems perfectly clear to me -- a "no" answer is false.
>2) The answerer answers no.  He is asserting that he will neither do X
>   nor answer no.  But he has already answered no!  The act of
>   answering has caused a contradiction.

What contradiction?

The act of answering has made the answer false.  That's not the same as saying
that it "caused a contradiction".
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: cs161fir@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: The Oracle speaks!
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:50:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Here's a little CE gem, courtesy of the Usenet Oracle:

The Usenet Oracle has pondered your question deeply.
Your question was:

> Oh great Oracle, for whom I will always play Compromises,
> 
> What are you doing in my Cosmic Encounter set?
> 
> This is what the set says about you:
> 
> 
>                              Oracle
> 
>     You have the power to forsee.  As a main player in a challenge,
>     you select your Challenge Card only after looking at the card
>     your opponent is playing.
> 
>     History: During millennia of civilization, the ancient Oracles
>     developed to uncanny accuracy their perceptiveness about the
>     intentions of others.  While reluctant to test the outer
>     limits of their vision, they find even short-range prescience
>     has given them the reputation of great wisdom.
> 
>                  Do not use in a game with the Insect.
> 
> 
> Is this accurate?  And what do you have against the Insect?
> 
> 
> Yours truly,
> 
> Seeker

And in response, thus spake the Oracle:

} What a card.
} 
} You do not realize to whom you speak foolish mortal.  You insult me!  I am no
} game's race; I am power incarnate.  A single cosmic zot would reduce you to
} a sniveling vulch.  Show respect for one whose merest edict could cast you
} irreversibly to the void.
} 
} You have no flare for asking such baseless questions.
} 
} You owe the Oracle a game of _More_Cosmic_ and a full moon.



Hmm.  Should I actually moon the Oracle?  After all, he told me to
do it...

Tony
-- 
Tony Minkoff                            aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
cs161fir@sdcc10.ucsd.edu                cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu
"This quote is in this .sig for no particular reason."
From: dmccart@gomez.intel.com (D. J. McCarthy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Found a Bug in MCE
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:38:15 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.board.ce
Organization: Intel ASTG, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

John P. Speno (speno@clam.rutgers.edu) wrote:

> Tonight, we opened a new set of CE and MCE and we found a bug in the
> Prophet power, literally. It seems that some kind of Mosquito had been
> pressed between the card and the laminate
[...]

	Gee, I'd pay real money for an Insect power like that!
(And no, that same offer doesn't stand for an analogous Filth, Fungus,
or Parasite power.)

--
D. J. McCarthy (dmccart@gomez.intel.com)
..where there's huntin' and there's fishin' in the woods and streams nearby...
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: phaedrus@halcyon.com (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: Mirror and Cavalry [Q]
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Distribution: rec.games.board.ce
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:38:48 GMT

In article <SPENO.93Jan23022220@clam.rutgers.edu> speno@clam.rutgers.edu (John P. Speno) writes:
>
>I think this was before finding the bug laminated under our Prophet
>but a situation arose with Mirror defending against someone with the
>Cavalry on their side. If Mirror calls dyslexia, does it also affect
>the Cavalry's card. In our game, we ruled it did for the time being.
>What do you think?

     I believe that the clarification/errata list put out in (I believe)
Encounter #3 says that Mirror should read "_all_ challenge cards are reversed"
(not "both challenge cards are reversed).  So this would include Deuce's
second card, Cavalry cards, etc.  Also remember that kickers take effect before
reversal; so a player playing Attack 15 and getting reversed winds up with
(15*2) reversed = 30 reversed = 3, not (15 reversed)*2 = 51*2 = 102.  (This
is important with Cavalry, since another thing in that clarification list is
that allies playing cards due to Cavalry can't play kickers, but that the cards
they play are modified by any kicker their main player plays.)
-- 
\o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com  (Seattle, WA Public Access Unix)     \o\
 \o\ "How'd you like to move a few steps down the food chain, pal?"       \o\
  \o\ If you enjoy fantasy/SF stories with transformation themes, email me \o\
   \o\ for a copy of the Transformation Stories List.                       \o\
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: hopcraft@spock.ecs.umass.edu (Geoffrey S Hopcraft)
Subject: Re: Question on Seeker...
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:01:39 GMT

I've replied individually to a few posters, but this house rule seems
pretty widespread, so I'm going to post. Essentially, by allowing the
seeker to get away with questions which essentially force behavoir,
you're getting onto pretty thin ice. To whit:

In article <1993Jan20.175238.5691@coe.montana.edu> uphrrmk@terra.oscs.montana.edu (Jack Coyote) writes:
>We usually require that answers be based on 'status quo', and may not
>include anything which the Seekee is unable to vouch for.
>
>         ex.  "Will you play an Attack card higher than a 12?"
>
>           In the original situation (player does not have such a card, but
>               Philanthropist promises one) the Answer must be No, and must
>               be abided by (the Seekee cannot guarantee that the Phil. will
>               TRY to give him the card)
>
>  counter-ex.  As above, but Seekee is Trader & knows his opponent has such
>               a card.  Player can answer Yes, but must then attempt to trade
>               hands.  Whether Zapped or not, he TRIED.
>
>The difference lies in the fact that the responsibilty for the effort lies
>solely with the Seekee, and must be based on data KNOWN to the player when he
>is asked.  (other examples include a Seekee with the Finder Flare, the
>Gambler, etc.)

Alright, let's take this house rule, and have the seeker ask a main
player (who does not have parasite):

"Are you going to ally for the rest of the game?"

Well, the person doesn't know that they will be able to ally; they
have to be invited, and that depends on another player (just as
getting a card from philanthropist depends on another player). So, by
this house rule, they would have to respond 'no' to the question. All
of a sudden, they can't ally for the rest of the game. In most groups
I play with, this is tantamount to forcing that player to lose.

Ok, so you forbid this situation. What about "Are you going to
compromise?" Can't do it unless the other main player agrees (barring
the obvious cases), so you have to say no. Heck, make it "Are you
going to compromise ever with anyone in the game other than me?"

Following the rules as stated (the person must do what they said they
would if they can) still allows seeker to be used for information
(although the seeker must be careful with her questions). If anybody
doubts that, send me a case (in email, so this board isn't swamped) of
some yes/no information item, and we'll see whether we can work out a
reasonable question to ask. This house rule opens the door to hundreds
of abuses, and with a little work can be made to be a pretty general
"Do what I tell you to do" power even without the logical trap
mentioned above. To my mind, this is not the intent behind seeker.

lilac,
Geoff
hopcraft@ecs.umass.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: brandon@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (Garland Operator 7-G)
Subject: Re: Found a Bug in MCE
Originator: news@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 08:02:00 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.board.ce
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Anime Doujou

In article <la>, speno@clam.rutgers.edu (John P. Speno) writes...
> 
>Tonight, we opened a new set of CE and MCE and we found a bug in the
>Prophet power, literally....

Of all the powers...that one would be appropriate for it :-)

(just kidding :-)

Domo. Ja na.

Brandon Freels (Garland Operator 7-G)
brandon@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu  -or-  brandon@uokucsvx.bitnet
"I'm witty naturally, I don't need quotes."
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: dvc@eagle.hr.att.com (David Van Cleef)
Subject: Re: When may players take a new hand?
Originator: news@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
	<1993Jan28.161236.5465@wuecl.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:30:13 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:12:36 GMT, kcc@wucs1.wustl.edu (Ken Cox) said:

KC>     As defensive player, you get a new hand any time you are out of
KC>     Challenge cards.  If you run out of Challenge cards several times
KC>     during the challenge, you draw a new hand each time.

KC>     Simple mnemonic:  You can always defend yourself, but if you
KC>     can't attack your turn ends.

KC>     N.B.  Some groups play that the defender MUST immediately draw
KC>     a new hand when out of Challenge cards; others that he only
KC>     MUST draw a hand when he has to play a Challenge card but he
KC>     MAY draw a hand earlier if he wishes.  Some of the answers
KC>     in the clarifications file imply that the first is correct.

Our group plays that the player with no challenge cards draws a new
hand as soon as he is determined to be the main defensive player (As
soon as it is determined that the challenge is not an undefended moon
challenge), and if he is out of challenge cards at the "Main players
play challenge cards" phase, he may draw again (potentially repeatedly
if he gets no challenge cards in his new hand).

We use this rule for both Eon and Mayfair.
--
David A. Van Cleef			AT&T Bell Laboratories
internet: dvc@eagle.hr.att.com		Red Hill Facility, Middletown, NJ
					+1 908 615 4906
From: pdudey@willamette.edu (Peter Dudey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: how to replace tokens?
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:43:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: willamet.C1F7x6.ML6
Organization: Willamette University, Salem OR

In article <43890@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs161fir@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:
>In article <C15zvE.39v@willamette.edu>,
>pdudey@willamette.edu (Peter Dudey) writes:
>>Just send a letter and a couple of bucks to Mayfair, and they'll send you
>>new tokens.  Worked for me, although it took a couple of months for them
>>to get here.
>
>Great!  I didn't realize that Mayfair sold replacement token sets.
>How much did they charge?  (Is there a set price, or just whatever
>vague amount you include in the envelope?  Does the Dragon get his
>cut of the price?  :^)

I included $5.00, and I also asked for and got the old-to-new update on
the CHILL roleplaying game.  (Hint:  don't buy this game.  Mayfair did a
horrible job of editing it; it's ugly and nigh on unplayable.)  I just sent in
some money because I didn't want to ask how much, wait for a response, send
it in, and then wait for my stuff.  Does anyone here have contact with
Mayfair, and can they answer the question?  Those pieces get lost awfully
easily.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cardinal Yipping Mundungus, Ministry of Rutting,
N-Dimensional Hell Pool Restractus Division, Church of the Nuked Burrito
Please mail me plastic spaceships:  900 State St.  C-210,  Salem,  OR,  97301
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: kcc@wucs1.wustl.edu (Ken Cox)
Subject: Re: When may players take a new hand?
Keywords: rules 
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:12:36 GMT

tfuegi@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tom Fuegi) writes:

>	I have the Mayfair @1991 edition and find that its rules only
>mention that players with no challenge cards can have a new hand on the
>turn in which they are offensive player but before their first challenge
>in that turn.
>
>	Nowhere in the rules does it say that a new hand may be drawn
>during another player's turn (special powers/cards excepted).

Yes, for some reason Mayfair acquired the copyright to the game
and then decided to re-write the rules, powers, flares, and so
forth.  This led to a number of careless phrasings and outright
omissions.  Many of these errors have been corrected in Encounter,
though I don't know if this issue has come up.

As to the drawing of a new hand, here is how it was handled under
Eon rules (expansion set 9):

    When you aren't a main player, you can't get a new hand.

    As offensive player, when you have no Challenge cards at the
    beginning of your turn, you get a new hand.  You do NOT get a
    new hand if you have no Challenge cards before your second
    challenge, or if you run out of Challenge cards during your
    challenge.  In these cases your turn immediately ends.

    As defensive player, you get a new hand any time you are out of
    Challenge cards.  If you run out of Challenge cards several times
    during the challenge, you draw a new hand each time.

    Simple mnemonic:  You can always defend yourself, but if you
    can't attack your turn ends.

    N.B.  Some groups play that the defender MUST immediately draw
    a new hand when out of Challenge cards; others that he only
    MUST draw a hand when he has to play a Challenge card but he
    MAY draw a hand earlier if he wishes.  Some of the answers
    in the clarifications file imply that the first is correct.

Ken Cox
kcc@wucs1.wustl.edu
From: thomasm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael J. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Edicts To Add...
Date: 23 Jan 1993 08:36:23 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Eek! I'm running a tournament!
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:57:54 GMT
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

One good solution to the "we don't have enough copies of the game to run the
tournament" problem, is to get it announced ahead of time (in a pre-con
mail out flier if possible) that people who bring a copy of the game get
preferentialy selected to enter the tournamnet over people who don't bring
a copy.  Note, this is a standard rule at most gaming cons, where a walk-in
with a game is allowed to bump even a pre-con signup who doesn't bring a copy.

--
Mark Biggar
mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: thomasm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael J. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Meamer and New Edicts
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:02:47 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu

Speaking of Edicts, allow me to send my own along...

SKIP:  Make a player skip his/her turn (with possible consolation).
REVERSE:  Reverse the order of players' turns (sound like UNO?).
Wild:  Can be any card that is pre-printed in the set except flares.

--- Alan ---

"Just some ideas..."
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: jthorpe1@cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe)
Subject: How many bases to win?
Followup-To: rec.games.board.ce
Organization: SWIL
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:19:26 GMT

Does one need _exactly_ five bases or _at least_ five bases to win?  (The
rules say "the winner is the first to acquire five (foreign) bases" or
something like that.)  This came up when someone (Kendra) was playing
Schizoid and set "4 bases needed to win, plus have less than five cards in
your hand" as winning conditions.  One of our players (Geoff Noer) had
_nine_ bases eventually, but too many cards, and Schizoid came close to
losing her power.  So, we wondered, if she did, would

a) the nine-base player win (jointly if others had five or more),
b) the nine-base player win by himself, because he had the most,
c) any five-base players jointly win, with those with more or less losing
because they didn't have exactly five, or
d) the _first_ person to have acquired five bases win (in this case, the
nine-base player)--i.e. would we have to think back to who was the first
person who would have won without schizoid?

We ruled that condition a) would have held, immediately ruling out d) since
we figured the rules meant "The first to acquire five bases after the rules
return to normal".  We have no good reason except common sense to rule out
b) or c).  Any thoughts?  (The same applies to the Schizoid winning
conditions--i.e. exactly four or more than four?)  I like c), just because
watching people frantically deoccupying planets sounds like fun... :)=

BTW, the game ended when Prolong (Josh Burdick) got his hand down to four
cards by prolonging a challenge...  He was rather a dark horse, actually...

(Hmmm...could the Schizoid really declare, say, twenty bases needed to win?
 Ouch.  Sucks if Assassin or Void are in the game, but nice if you're
Macron...)

----jere7my
From: ahahn@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Youth Of Destiny)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: Meamer and New Edicts
Date: 24 Jan 93 04:52:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


  Maybe it's just me, but this seems to be far to limiting of the
Mesmer player.  What about cards like Mobius Tubes and Warp Break
that can't be changed in that manner?  This two Edicts in particular
seem like ones which cannot be dissallowed.  I say Mesmer should
have full run on any Edict he wants, just as it was written on the
Power card.

Aaronius Hahnius Maxmius
Official Youth Of Destiny
From: speno@clam.rutgers.edu (John P. Speno)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Found a Bug in MCE
Date: 23 Jan 93 07:18:09 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.board.ce
Organization: Rutgers University -- Camden, New Jersey.


Tonight, we opened a new set of CE and MCE and we found a bug in the
Prophet power, literally. It seems that some kind of Mosquito had been
pressed between the card and the laminate and is now preserved in our
Prophet power, squashed like, well, a bug. Kind of sick. Kind of
funny. Anyone else find pressed insects in their sets? =)

[And you thought it was a real problem with the prophet. Ha.]

--
John P. Speno, speno@clam.rutgers.edu -> "Sleep is for the weak.", C. Crenson
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re: 4 Questions
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:47:51 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1jqtcgINNfdu@life.ai.mit.edu> thomasm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael J. Thomas) writes:
>Here's hoping this actually makes it to the net.  I HATE being a newbie...
> 
>Four questions for your enjoyment...
> 
>1)  The Vampire wins as an ally with the Fungus.  Powers state that the
>Fungus takes the opponents' tokens into his stack; the Vampire enslaves
>one token of each opponent.  Does the Vampire take one and the Fungus gets
>the rest?  Does the Fungus get them all and the Vampire then gets one token
>to enslave from OUTSIDE the challenge?

	Yes, because of the timing rules.  If Vampire were the main player, 
however, Fungus would get them all (Vampire rarely invites Fungus to ally.
If they were both allies, it would depend on who was sitting closest to the
offensive main player, counting clockwise.

>2)  A Fungoid stack goes to the warp, and in that stack were some of the
>Grief's tokens.  Does Grief now get cards, or should he have gotten them when
>the Fungus assimilated them to begin with?

	No.  Grief gets cards when his tokens go to the warp.  When Fungus takes
over Grief tokens, they aren't going to the warp.  When the Grief tokens are in
the Fungus stack, they don't have any special characteristics, and they don't
leave the stack until after the Fungus stack has entered the warp.

>--- Alan ---
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation
From: glenn@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov
Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
Subject: Re:  Lucre and the Communist Moon
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: glenn@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov
Distribution: rec
Organization: N.I.S.T
Posting-Front-End: Shinbun -- the OpenLook newsreader



We use Illuminati counters.  Since no one in our group has had the
desire to count how much lucre the game comes with, we just say everyone
gets 50 lucre each time someone lands on the Communist Moon.  We don't worry
about the bank size and it just adds a little extra something to the game.
(I doubt you'd ever run out of lucre if you use Illuminati counters, there's
alot of them!!).

Rob G.
glenn@osi.ncsl.nist.gov


Newsgroups: rec.games.board.ce
From: phaedrus@halcyon.com (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: How many bases to win?
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:39:51 GMT

In article <jthorpe1-240193200158@mac17.public.swarthmore.edu> jthorpe1@cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe) writes:
>Does one need _exactly_ five bases or _at least_ five bases to win?  (The
>rules say "the winner is the first to acquire five (foreign) bases" or
>something like that.)  

     Normally, the first player with at least five foreign bases wins the game.
(The rules do not say "exactly five foreign bases."  When you have six foreign
bases, you most definitely have five.)  If multiple people gain five or more
bases at the same time, they win jointly.  (We usually play that you don't win
until the end of a phase.  So when you get your fifth base, everyone has until
the end of that phase so take one of your bases away or get five themselves.  
Usually, bases are gotten during the "cards are revealed" phase of a challenge,
so other players can play cards-are-revealed or play-at-any-time cards and 
powers, but interphase cards and powers are too late.)
     When Schizoid has altered the win conditions, if Schizoid ever loses his
power (due to loss of home bases or to Cosmic Zap--your question leads me to
wonder if you realize that Schizoid can be Cosmic Zapped just like any other
power), any players with five or more external bases immediately win (though
again, I'd allow the other players until the end of that phase to try to 
skew the results).

>(Hmmm...could the Schizoid really declare, say, twenty bases needed to win?
> Ouch.  Sucks if Assassin or Void are in the game, but nice if you're
>Macron...)

     Yes.  (This opens up a big kettle of worms.  Many people would argue that
this victory condition is illegal, since Schizoid can't win by it--to have
twenty external bases, he would have to have a token on each of those bases,
leaving him with no spare tokens, no home bases, and no power.  However, (a)
the Schizoid power never says that all players must be able to _win_ be
achieving the victory condition, just that all players can achieve it, and (b)
the Schizoid does win in this situation--since he's lost his power, normal win
conditions are in effect, and he quite definitely has five external bases.)
However, if you're Schizoid and try something stupid like this, the victory
conditions effectively default to "five external bases and Cosmic Zap the
Schizoid".
-- 
\o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com  (Seattle, WA Public Access Unix)     \o\
 \o\ "How'd you like to move a few steps down the food chain, pal?"       \o\
  \o\ If you enjoy fantasy/SF stories with transformation themes, email me \o\
   \o\ for a copy of the Transformation Stories List.                       \o\