HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Taiwanese Government Is Not Only Selfish ... Re: TW News 16/9/92
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:51:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.114430.3796@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>In article <81138@ut-emx.uucp>, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>> 
>> As for the example of Russia, does anyone believe that the Russians
>> would not now trade their freedom for the first person who offers them
>> bread?
>> 
>> 
>
>	** I like this comment. Actually, the Bible implies that 
>	   they will.
It is too late though. History only offer a nation  one chance not to make 
mistake, if it did it, it has to pay for it. Russians are paying dearly for
goby's, yeltsin's stupidity.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Mousheng Xu <moxu@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      login
Reply-To: Mousheng Xu <moxu@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:28:33 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dear Superviser:
     I have a friend lqin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu who wants to login
china-nt, would you please help her?
     Thanks a lot.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Subject: FWD:China rejects clemency petition from jailed dissident's mom
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:48:16 GMT
Keywords: china, sheng tong, reject


From: clarinews@clarinet.com (NICK DRIVER)
Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.issues.civil_rights
Subject: China rejects clemency petition from jailed dissident's mom
Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, civil rights,
	social issues
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 1:45:04 PDT
Location: china
ACategory: international
Slugword: china-dissident
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 383; Id: z1076; Sel: chigf; Adate: 10-15-440aed
Codes: &igfrch., &ixhrxx., &ixhrch., tncn....


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	BEIJING (UPI) -- Chinese officials have refused to accept a clemency
petition from the mother of Shen Tong, a dissident student leader who
has been under detention since soon after returning from self-exile in
the United States.
	Li Yixian this week said police told her they could not accept her
petition, partly because they had no record of Shen's case.
	The Beijing Public Security Bureau denies jailing Shen, claiming
instead that the 24-year-old remained only ``under surveillance and
investigation in a residence,'' according to Li.
	However, Li said she told police that ``this was actually
imprisonment by a different name, (and) it was illegal for them to keep
him this long.''
	Under Chinese law, police can technically hold a detainee for just 15
days before charging him with a crime.
	But the law has several loopholes, and authorities have detained many
prisoners for months -- even years -- without charge.
	So far, Shen has been held for more than 45 days.
	However, Li said that late last month, she attempted to file a
petition on Shen's behalf, after the 15-day detention period lapsed with
no word from either her son or authorities.
	In her petition, Li, 51, accused the government of holding Shen
illegally, and also of withholding information regarding his
whereabouts.
	Authorities have prohibited Shen from corresponding with anyone
during his confinement -- even forbidding him from signing his name for
packages sent by his mother.
	Shen, one of the leaders of the 1989 student pro-democracy movement,
fled China immediately after the Tiananmen Square massacre. He took up
graduate studies in Boston, creating the Democracy for China Fund there.
	But the pro-democracy leader returned to Beijing this summer in hopes
of re-establishing contact with China's underground dissidents.
	However, police detained Shen on Sept. 1, hours before he planned to
hold a news conference announcing formation of a Beijing branch of the
Democracy for China Fund.
	Last week, a group of 74 U.S. senators wrote Chinese Premier Li Peng
demanding the dissident's release. The U.S. State Department has also
previously expressed concern over Shen's detention.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jiwang@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU ((Ji Wang, Civil Engineering & Operations Research,              Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544. Tel: 609-258-6239,              Fax: 609-258-1270))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION from the IFCSS Exchange Committee
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:16:11 GMT
Reply-To: "(Ji Wang, Civil Engineering & Operations Research,              Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544. Tel: 609-258-6239,              Fax: 609-258-1270)" <jiwang@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: "China-Net (The Coordination Network for IFCSS)"
              <CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Hi, Shusheng:

Long time no hearing.  Please put my name on your associate list, and I
may help if you need in the future.

Ji Wang
Princeton Univ
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:09:22 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, fyang@calshp.cals.wisc.edu

Well, I had the same experience last year. That's the Bank (should be
China Bank, I'm not sure) in Nanning, GuangXi. I used to send my family
a small check every two months. A $20 Charge was deducted from each check
and the Bank told my family that it is a Hong Kong bank who took care
the transaction and charge the fee. It's an obvious lie and it is
terrible. Later they abolished this policy and just explained that they
swithed to a good bank which did charge the $20 fee. I believe there
are more people who have the same bitter experience. The bank should
apologize and give those money back to all victims. Could IFCSS take
care of this and ask for a reasonable explanation from China Bank?


William Deng
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Conference, Sino-Tibetan Relations: Prospects for the future
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:50:23 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <BvEp0A.MK7@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter) writes:
>Or goes against deeply held designs over the Tibetan people.   
>You certainly are entitled to your views on how tax money should be 
>spent, but like it or not, self-determination is the trend, has been 
>the trend, and will be the trend for the future.  

First of all, there are big problems associating the term secession
and self-determination.

Secession generally occurs only when 1) the ruling government has been
particularly stupid and incompetent or 2) the ruling government has
considered itself better off without the seceding area.

>Empires have been breaking up, colonies have been freeing themselves and are 
>running their own affairs as independent countries.  China will eventually 
>lose its colonies also.

1) It's the belief of a lot of people on the net, that Tibet is not a
colony, but has been an integral part of China since at least the
early eighteenth century if not earlier.

2) There's something to be said for multi-ethnic states.  The concept
of self-determination really developed after World War I to dismantle
the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empire.  In light of what's happening
in the Balkans right now, that may not have been such a good thing.
At least under Austria-Hungary, the Ottomans, and Tito's Yugoslavia,
the Serbs and the Croats weren't trying to kill each other.

One thing that you seem to consider self-evident is that the idea of
mono-ethnic nation-states is a good idea.  It's not at all obvious to
me at least that this is the case, especially with what is happening
in the Balkans.  You really need to argue the point that
"self-determination" as you have defined it is a good thing.

3) Catalona.  With luck, what happened in Catalona after Franco's
death will be what happens in Tibet after Deng's.




Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Subject:      Another fact, re: Ng's attack
Reply-To: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:45:00 GMT

        Another fact, re: ng's attack
        I have a friend, he was very actively involved Tananmen movement,
after 6.4, he escaped to countryside to hide for a few days, and before
CG have time to tighten the airport, he quietly went through the Beijing
airport gate and come back to the US, (He was a graduate student at
berkeley), later he actively involved the demonstration in the U.S.
        Everybody knows that CG was in some kind disorder for a few days
after 6.4, therefore, Ng using the example of Shen Tong's leaving from
China by CSSA on June 11, try to deny Shen Tong's activity, that does not
make any sense at all.
        I do not like the behavior, when someone is under arrest, who can
not defend himself at this moment, someone start to attact his back! That is
absolutely 100% wrong! No excuse! This is 100% unfair! I believe that Ng
only can represent a few who agree with him, he can not represent a
democratic organization. Otherwise Mr. Ng, need to prove he have got the
permition from the board of such organization to let him to do the
wrongdoing!             Dawei Zhou,Florida, 10/13/1992
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: binxiong@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Bin Xiong)
Subject: test
Summary: test
Keywords: test
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:52:09 GMT

This is another test. Please ignore this.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: HWANGK@VTCC1.BITNET
Subject:      $10 per year to IFCSS
Reply-To: HWANGK@VTCC1.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:40:00 GMT

Dear Friends:

     If you have changed your J-1 visa to F-1 visa, if you have benefited from
President's executive order, if you are covered by the protection Bill, let's
join this call and donate $10 per year to IFCSS who has worked on protecting
Chinese students in USA, promoting human right cause in China to its fourth
term from the date it was born.
     IFCSS stands for Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
in the U.S.A.. It is the first fully democratic organization in the Chinese
history I have ever known. It is run and supported by many brilliant, devoted
Chinese students who belive in democracy and stick to principles. In IFCSS'
constitution, it says:" IFCSS represents the wish of Chinese students and
scholars in the U.S.A., protects the rights and interests of Students and
scholars in the U.S.A., promotes the freedom, democracy, human rights, and law
in China, promotes the progress in science, culture and economy in China."
IFCSS has been doing exactly what its constitution says. As to its structure,
IFCSS' top level consists of Headquarter, Council, and Supervisory committee
which makes IFCSS fully democratic. For example, if you want to express your
opinion, suggestion, or idea, talk to Council members; if you observe any
improper conduct, appeal it to members of Supervisory Committee. This system
makes IFCSS democratic, clean, and efficient. As an  organization, IFCSS has
weak points, shortcomings, but rely on this system, they will be cleaned
off and IFCSS will be stronger and healthier.
     It is important to have a strong IFCSS, for the rights and interests of
yourself, for the human right cause in China, most importantly, for the future
of China. If we let this fully democratic organization of ourself fade away,
it will only mean that democracy is not for Chinese. If that will be the case,
I think many of us will grieve.
     Although IFCSS is a organization of ourself, and it has successfully
protected our interests, IFCSS is mainly financially supported by the public
in USA and in Taiwan. It is a shameful picture. If every one of us can donate
$10 per year, IFCSS will obtain the support of $40,000 per year. By that time,
IFCSS will be financially independent and can serve our interests better than
ever.
     Well, you can refuse to donate too, in that case, what can I say?
     Make your donation to:

                             IFCSS
                             733 15th Street, N.W.,
                             Suite 440,
                             Washington D.C.

     Thank you for your attention.


                            A Chinese student
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: dnmao@mich.cern.ch
Subject:      Soem words about the 'vectory'...
Reply-To: dnmao@mich.cern.ch
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:48:00 GMT

Netters,

First of all, Let's say: 'Eternal glory to the 6.4. martyrs!'
Secondly, many thanks to any one who made our green (a little bit red?)
cards possible, especially, those dedicated people working at IFCSS
HQ, CSAA and all local bill group leaders.

I believe I can express one of my feelings which I have had for quite a
while. If it were said few days ago, I would be accused of being fond
of internal fighting as a 'ungly chinese'.

I used to hear many people criticizing my words as 'too heavy' because
I always like to remind them the political persecutions in China. They
tried to dissuade me not to worry too much. 'take it easy!', they liked
to say this in a relaxed voice. However, I did see some of them feeling
much heavier than I, epspecailly, when Mr.Bush held his pen in his hand,
thinking what he should do on the protection bill.

Moreover, some (if not many) CSSs liked using execuse 'I do not care
politics, it is dirty' to refused to join any activity which could
be regarded by CCP as 'counter-revolutionary'. On the other hand, to this
protection bill, they have showed great interest as if they did not know
this actually a number one political issue. For such people, I have to say
they are too smart.

BTW, I just got a mail from one of my friends and I like to share it with
all netters. I would be sorry if it would bother any one at this exciting
moment of celebrating the 'great vectory'. It is my hope that all green people
do not forget with who's help we have become green (though not fully yet)
and always think what we could do for them?

Dongning Mao


\begin{friend's mail}
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


          When I read some posts in China-nt for saying "we made history"
about the passed protection bill, I suddenly feel that most Chinese
students have lost the sense of guilty.

          Yes, we made history no matter what we have done, that depends
on if we care it is full of dirt or what. Let us wait for next " AI4 GUO2
GAO1 CHAO2 " to see my point: it is full of the dirt in the history we
claimed we just made.

          Actually my feeling is mixed. Everybody needs protection from
the very begining. We all have some problems in some sense. But if we
remember all these things are paid by someone's life, I can not get of
rid of the sense of guilty. In my life this is the first thing I got
with such expensive cost, but paid nothing.

          May god bless prisoners and humble people in China.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
\end(friend's mail}
From: ahu@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Amy Hu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Freedom or persecution
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:31:12 GMT




>	There, I see some people persecute, verbally abuse, and
>whip Shannon Yeh...

>	You people who are abusing him will ALLOW for only ONE view,
>and that is your own. It does not matter weather I agree with him
>or disagree with him, he should have the right to express HIS view
>without being characterized (as Carl did) as a Maoist. That is FREE
>SPEACH. Leave him alone. Get off his back. Time may prove him right.


I've been observing this news group for quite sometime now and never had the
urge to reply to anything until now.  I'm not going to argue about the
righteousness of the Protection Act nor do I want to.  My only concern, which
is similar to the above poster, is that Mr. Yeh's Constitutional Rights have
been violated.  As an American citizen and growing-up in the States most of my
life, I strongly believe in an individual's right for freedom of speech; and
this right is given to all people dwelling on this land of freedom.  Whether
or not Mr. Yeh made any repulsive remarks to anybody, he should be granted the
freedom to express his opinion.  If you find his remarks offensive or
out-of-line, then take legal action.  Otherwise please act in a more CIVILIZED
manner.  Stop making a mockery and a fool out of yourself.   The actions
displayed by some of the people on this net are despicable.  Since most of
you are now probably in the process of obtaining a green card, maybe it's
time for you to learn how to accept criticisms, discrimination, and the rest
of the package that comes with your card, because those are the realism of
democracy believe it or not.

If you can't bear what I have just said, perhaps you don't belong in this
country afterall.


Amy Hu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: dxl@philabs.philips.com (Du Li)
Subject: Re: question: protection bill
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:29:08 GMT

In article <Bw2rKz.8rp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> $LPAHM0@LUCCPUA.BITNET writes:
>I have read 'victory' bill. Because English in it is so 'English', that
>I couldn't understand what I can do or what I should do. Is there any
>general explaination of the bill. The questions I concern are: When
>I can apply? What I should do to apply?

From this post, everyone knows what kind of person he/she is.  No any more
explanation is needed.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:35:18 EDT
From: <LXH108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: What is Shannon Yeh?

Just by curiosity, can somebody tell me WHAT is this guy?
From: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu (jinyu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:  Where can IFCSS get self support money? part 2
Date: 13 Oct 1992 02:31:38 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

In article <Bw1BJL.JDB@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU> writes:
>The CPCU established early this year was suppose to bridge IFCSS with
>those CSS who graduated.

What does CPCU stands for and how does it function? Thankx.

JY MARQUETTE U

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Subject:      congratulations to IFCSS/HQ,IFCSS/CCSA,and everyone, all CSS!
Reply-To: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:51:00 GMT

Congratulations to IFCSS/HQ, IFCSS/CCSA, ALL CSS. Together, we will make a
difference. Let us stay together!           Dawei Zhou,Florida
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yuechen@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (yueting chen)
Subject: Re: Should IFCSS sue Shannon Yeh?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:27:14 GMT

In article <yzhou.719092210@void> yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou) writes:
>What Shanoon Yeh has done in misc.jobs.*** is against equal opportunity
>and is prohibited by law. I urge IFCSS to protect CSS's rights and take
>this guy to court.
>
>
>joe
>

Strongly support this idea!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Re: Witness A Moment of History  ( II ) - final days of lobby
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:24:38 GMT

In article <Bw6qD0.Cp7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "(Jinghong Li)" <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU> writes:

|11:15am, John jumped out off his chair went down stairs to check messages.
|Who knows why, maybe anything could happen at any time.  The discussion
|continued.  Laura started to tell a new idea triggered by reports that
|many AIDS activists were displaying huge flags on The Mall.  Partially
|joking, she said maybe we should gather 64 students to chain themselves
|together in front of the White House until Bush signs the bill.  We smiled
|at each other.  I added, also joking, we should do this in every city ......
|
|"I told him, 64 Chinese students have chained them together in front of
|the White House, Burton believed." Laura added, "He said, tell them to
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|release themselves because the President has just signed the bill. --

	It surely can't get more disgusting than this.  And this Burton, an
American friend presumably, actually believed it!

	Those who are still not convinced that the whole thing is an ugly
abuse of the 6.4 blood, take note.


	 Eddie
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou)
Subject: Re: What is Shannon Yeh?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:30:55 GMT

<LXH108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Just by curiosity, can somebody tell me WHAT is this guy?

 Answer: A BOZO


 joe

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Wanbing Li)" <wanbing@HERCULES.GEOLOGY.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      IFCSS membership
Reply-To: "(Wanbing Li)" <wanbing@HERCULES.GEOLOGY.UIUC.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:03:42 GMT
Comments: To: ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu, china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              council@venus.physics.emory.edu, ifcss@wam.umd.edu,
              svc@hal.cwru.edu

Dear IFCSS activists:

	At this moment, people are exciting about IFCSS. Many CSS agree IFCSS
has done a lot for them.

	But from my point of view, the only way IFCSS can survive is

COMPLETELY CHANGE ITS ORGANIZATION MEMBERSHIP INTO INDIVIDUAL MEMBERSHIP

This is the ONLY way out. Do you want to have a revolution on yourself.

Wanbing Li From UIUC
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: The future Chinese economy...
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 02:33:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct17.010139.948@midway.uchicago.edu> zg11@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>OK, let's talk something which is not so stirring since this group has been
>much polluted by the vehement debate about the "politics" or "blood-cards", 
>so on and so forth. Recently, the 14th CCP congress has basically outlined 
>the future Chinese economy, even through much is left to say, we can tell 
>that the Chinese economy, as well as the fundmental thinkings associated with
>it, will have a drastical change. 
>
>Believe or not, CCP has gave up one of the "four basic principles", --
>the socialist road, when it decides to transform the national economy
>to a market-oriented one, or so called market economy. This is a big
>step, but a natural consequence of the economic reform beginning from
>early 80's. Plus, this is a real "peaceful evolution of the socialism"
>(to capitalism). It means the CCP will also lead the capitalism. By
>now, it should be very clear that as long as CCP is still the only leader
>of the nation, it does not matter what kind of economic system it
>runs, so CCP has already gave up another basic principle, -- Marxism.
>I think now actually, there is only one "basic principle" it really 
>counts, -- the pragmatism.
>
>I'd like to hear from everybody about the impact of this decision.
>
>
>Cheers!
>
>Zening Ge
>Department of Economics, the U of Chicago
>
>
It is important for    China to call herself what ever -ism other capitalism,
what ever -cracy other tan Westen Democracy. You can have anything underneath,
but should never surrender to Westen idea as Russians did. That will gurantee
Chinese people still, will have psychological uphand.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china