From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: question about hunting tests
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:37:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.140930.10894@linus.mitre.org>
bds@mbunix.mitre.org (Smith) writes:
(note:  i moved some text around so I could respond to it better.
        I believe I have not changed the context of what was said)
 
>This weekend I went to my first hunting test.
>All in all, it was
>a lot of fun, and I intend to see if Jasper is up to the test in the
>spring (seems this was the last event of the year).
 
I'm glad you had a good time.  I think hunting tests *are* alot of
fun (because of the non-competitive atmosphere ??).
 
 
>Maybe it was because all I watched was Junior hunter, but
>it seemed like the dogs had no idea they were being judged--they were
>just out there having a great time finding birds.
 
Junior tests (at least in the retriever arena) are set such that they
test the dog's basic abilities.  When viewing a junior test, a person
should not be looking for those traits that make for the ulitmate
hunting dog - rather those that have the basic instinct and abilities
to eventually (with training) make that finished hunting companion.
 
>Now for my question.  Both owners told me (quietly) that they were
>concerned because the other dogs in the braces were Setters (one was a
>Gordon and the other was an English), and that the event was being
>sponsored by the Gordon Setter club.  In practice, this didn't make a
>difference since their dogs all qualified.  However, I noticed that
>the English came up just short of qualifying, and yet he flushed 3
>birds (he only pointed at 1, though) to the Weimaraner's 1, and he
>seemed much more active.  The same thing happened with the Gordon and
>GSP, but the Gordon qualified.  The Weimaraner owner told me that she
>entered a dog in a Hunt Test once and it pointed at 3 birds to none
>for the other (a different breed), yet it scored lower in bird
>finding!  She also said she worried because a Weim works differently
>than a Setter, and only a judge who knows Weims would know this.  So
>what's going on?
 
Not being a pointer person, I can't make judgements as to how different
breeds normally work.  But I do judge hunting tests for retrievers and
can make a statement which I think is relevant.  The same type of
complaints are often made by Golden retriever people - something along
the lines that goldens aren't as "hot" and their style shouldn't be
judged down because they don't have the same enthusiasm for water
retrieving as Labs. This is bunk!  The rules are written for what
one would expect of a retriever.  The dogs are to be judged against
that standard and not against each other (or breed vs. breed).
If goldens, as a breed, are less "stylish" than Labs, then so be it -
they deserve lower scores.  If the rules are written such that
the way that a Gorden's performance is 'prefered' over that of another
breed, then the judges can't be blamed for giving Gorden's a better
score.
 
As far as the actual performance you witnessed, what other factors
besides just 'bird finding' are judged?  That could be the reason
that one dog passed while another did not.  In retrievers, Marking
a fall is only 1/4 of the score, yet to the uninitiated, marking
may seem to constitute a large portion of a test.
 
 
>Since I know nothing about all this stuff, I was
>wondering if it could be explained because of differences between the
>individual judges, or maybe the judges are looking at things that I
>didn't look for, or maybe the worst judges are assigned to Junior
>Hunter, or what?
 
I think the former is likely.  The latter (generally) isn't true.
After all, each judge tends to prefer to judge 1 area more than
others.  For example, in retrievers, I have heard *many* judges
state their dislike for judging the Senior divison.  But Senior
happens to be my favorite.  I know alot of judges (who have been
doing it a long time) who say that Junior is their favorite division.
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |  "Those that already have the answer
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   can afford to be clueless!"
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |
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