From: craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: AT&T / NCR Canada Ltd., Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:17:35 GMT

In article <SBO.92Apr8195121@walhalla.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.173245.6854@cattnts> craig@cattnts (Craig Campbell) writes:

>   In article <9643@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>   >1917 : Ontario Rule XVII : no school in French

>   I'm sorry, but I have some trouble worrying or feeling guilty about things
>   that happened when my grandparents were young (May they rest in piece) or
>   before they were born.  It is ancient history.  Interesting, perhaps, but 
>   of little relevance.

>So, I guess you don't think that the natives should get any special
>arrangement in Canada?

Correct.  Why should anyone be treated 'special' in todays Canada.  Fair
is fair.  Everyone should have the same rights and privileges  (A Bill of
Rights).

>   What, a name is not a name?  What is the english name for Quebec city?
>   If every location was actually given a name both in french and english, then
>   this is government sillyness at a real high!!  (I have to admit, I would be
>   annoyed if the government tried to change my name.)
                '
>Do you write Quebec or Quebec?

Well, I didn't know Quebec required an accent.  In my (weak) defense, I used
to put an accent on resume, but with typing everything, it simply became too
much effort.  (OK, so I'm lazy... :-)  It is not left off as an affront, just
too lazy.)

>   >Until 1976 and law 101 : a French-speaking could not get higher than
>   >a subaltern job in many English-directed companies in Quebec

>   "could not get higher"?  That is an interesting phrase.  Why could a "French-
>   speaking" [person] not get higher?  Inability to communicate with the parrent
>   company?  Board of directors?  Or was it a vicious nasty plot? :-)

>What do you think?

I wonder if the assertion is correct, or just a rationalization for anti-
english behaviour.  I do not KNOW.

>   It has been my observation that companies are most interested in the bottom
>   line ($$$$), and that there is a deafening indeference to other matters
>   (for example culture).  If you can do the job, then generally, you have as
>   likely a chance as anyone else.

>Prove me your last sentence.

Explain to me how a company could stay in business if this was not the case.
(Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by 
 ignorance/stupidity.)

>   >1992 : Canadian opinion is still against any special power for Quebec.

>   Canadian opinion (as far as I can see it) is against special power for anyone!
>   We are all equal.  Why should any one specific group be given special power
>   which is denied to all the other groups?

>Well, English Canada can certainly get the same power that Quebec could
>get. We would then have a decentralised country. But what happens is that
>English Canada wants a strong central government. Then English Canada says:
>we don't want those powers so you won't have them.

OK, fill me in.  What specific special powers are we talking about?  The
ability to suspend/ignore constitutional rights?  (Before this goes off into
the weeds, I would like to state that any constitution should be agreed upon
by the people of Canada, including Quebec.  I'm really tired of being bled
and force fed by government.)  Basic rights of the citizens should be above/
beyond government manipulation.  (I don't trust any of our governments.)

>   I don't believe that anyone wishes to erradicate the french language or
>   culture.  I do suspect that some groups are fostering that fear for their
>   own personal gains.  

>Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, I'm curious: What is your
>tought of the past.

I am sorry, I don't understand your request.  Any specific part of the past?
I general, the past is written and done.  We must live beyond it, learn from
it, and try to become better people from its lessons.  (Evolution of the
human race and wold civilization and all that.)

>   Why don't other cultures in canada also have this fear.  I have some personal
>   experience with German, Italian, and some Oriental cultures and have never
>   detected any fear of their culture dieing.

>What would be your reaction if tomorrow morning Canada would become
>officialy unilingual francophone?

Believe it or not, if it would lower my taxes, I'd be in favour of it.  The 
government hasn't said anything worth hearing in years.  The important
documents (tax forms), I'm sure they'd still provide in English as well.  Why
else should I care?  To me 'official' means 'government', and that means
nothing but taxes to me.  Local news papers would still meet public demand, as
would television.  The languages of my friends would not change.  The language
of my life would not change.

>   >Federal forbids any publishing of documents proving that Quebec
>   >secession can be done economically.  Last year, C.D.Howe institute
>   >got a blame for such a document.

Our govenrment is FORBIDDING the publishing of documents disagreeing with
its official opinion!!?!?!??  If this is correct, then that in itself is
cause for nation wide rebellions!!!!  (Forget the french/english thing!!)

>   Perhaps because it can't be done economically.  I don't know.  But if Quebec
>   did leave, they could definitely take their share of the national debt with
>   them.

>Maybe, but what's with the opposition of a statement that it could be
>economically good to seperate? Why do you care? Why do people in English
>Canada care?

Well, English Canada (as you call the rest of us) is not an island.  We are
linked to each other and Quebec in a myriad of ways.  Besides, generally, 
I LIKE QUEBEC.  I have friends in Quebec, and if they fall on tough times, I
would be concerned.  I distrust politicians, including Quebec ones.  I suspect
any group that build itself on persecutions and rationalizations.  (The
English people are persecuted in Quebec in my opinion.)  I do feel that Canada
as a whole needs some re-vamping (rein in the governments!!), but I also
feel that Quebec is a valuable and natural part of Canada, just as are all the
other provinces with their distinct societies and cultures.

>   >Recently, a Ottawa university published a work demonstrating that 
>   >Native were better treated in Quebec than in TROC.  Why the impression
>   >of opposite shown by canadian press?
>   Perhaps there were other studdies, done by other reputable organizations
>   concluding the opposite.  It is not uncommon for various studies to 
>   contradict each other.  Especially about things that are subjective, such as
>   "How well you are treated".

>Then why don't your press show both sides of the studdies?

Who of us can really explain the press?

>   Nothing, including Canada is perfect.  

>Especially not Canada!!! Maybe Quebec is the exception that confirm the rule.

What?  Quebec is Perfect?  I must be misunderstanding what you mean.

>So far I have asked a zillion times to the people who use "where nubmer
>warrants" or "where there's demand" what this means exactly. I'm still
>waiting for the answer.

I believe that that phrase is still open for debate.  You tell me?  I have a
stong desire to be reasonable and fair.  I just don't like wasted projects
and $$$$$.

>   What ever happened to people just being nice to each other?  You know
>   "neighbourly, friendly, tolerant"?  Perhaps it was just an urban legend.
>   Too bad.  Sigh...

>I don't know. Ask that question to your neigbhours.

Quebec, and by extension you are my neighbors.

>Pendant que j'y suis, Gerald, je ne t'ai pas oublie. J'attend toujours la
>signification du P dans Gerald P Heckman. Au cas ou tu aurais perdu mon
>adresse de courrier electronique, regarde la fin de ce message.

Hows that?  :-)

>Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal


-- 
Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada