From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,alt.mythology,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Abraham and Agamemnon
Date: 15 Sep 92 02:37:20 GMT
Followup-To: sci.classics
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <ARA.92Sep11204012@camelot.ai.mit.edu> ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:
>
>There seem to be striking similarities between the story of Abraham and Isaac
>in the Bible and the story of Agamemnon and Iphigenia. God told Abraham to
>sacrifice Isaac and intervened at the last minute. Artemis told Agamemnon
>to sacrifice Iphigenia and intervened at the last minute.
>

	Wait a minute.  I have been under the impression that 
	the older legend of A&I has Iphigenia actually being sacrificed,
	while Euripides, in _Iphigenia Among the Taurians_
	(there is also _I at Aulis_, but I've forgotten the plot)
	introduces the substitution of a deer for I at the last minute.
	Although the _Iliad_ begins long after the sacrifice, doesn't
	it specify that it actually occurs, and doesn't Aeschylus
	in the _Oresteia_ as well?  What does the _Odyssey_ say?

	As far as the Greek legend goes, I would suggest that what
	occurred was a toning down of the original more brutal legend
	to something more symbolic and civilised.  Probably the same
	occurred with the Isaac story, but I see no need to put forward
	some hypothetical contact between these cultures.
	My own scenario for the toning down of these stories follows
	that outlined by the editor in my copy of _The Nibelungenlied_,
	which notes that older versions of this text have Siegfried
	being given his way with the Queen (I forget the names) by
	the King for a night in payment for having helped conquer
	her for the King (she was quite a vixen), while the later
	version has him taking only her garter (I've corrupted
	the story, but anyway).  The explanation
	being that women were beginning to have some influence
	in castle life in the later period and would not put up
	with the raw stuff from the poets.

>This raises at least two questions:
>(1) Is there any evidence of one myth being influenced by the other one?

	Check an OT Special Introduction text to find when the Isaac
	story was written.

>(2) Are there other occurrences of this theme in ancient mythologies?
>

	I wouldn't doubt it for a minute.  In the essays on dream
	analysis (Freud) that I've read, substitution is a common
	occurrence.  I'm reading several books right now on the
	Conquest of Mexico, and the editors note that almost all
	cultures have had human sacrifice at some point in their
	past, and usually progress (I think this is a valid word
	to use here :) ) beyond it and substitute tithes of one
	form or another, but that the Aztecs were a 'degenerate'
	militaristic society which imbibed rivers of the divine liquid.
	I'm also reminded of Nietzsche's insight (_The Birth of
	Tragedy_, and elsewhere) that the intellectual
	accomplishments of the later Greeks were 'steeped in blood.'

	What I guess I am trying to get across is that what is 
	involved in the similarity you see in these two stories
	is something much deeper than a simple 'writer A in 
	culture B has idea C which influences writer D in culture E
	through text F.' I suspect that psychology is involved here,
	not simple contact.  Anyway, I'm sure others with more
	expertise can answer this.  I xposted to a couple groups
	that seemed relevant.  Followups to sci.classics.

>Allan Adler
>ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu