HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richk@grebyn.com (Richard Krehbiel)
Subject: Re: Why I need Hardware References.
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:07:02 GMT

In article <92315.171226K3023E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET> <K3023E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:

>   Dear People.
>
>   I think there are a lot of misunderstandings about this Hardware
>   Reference Manual. There is obvioulsy *NO* doubt that you CANNOT
>   assure compatibility when 'hitting' the hardware.  That does NOT
>   implicate that you MUST NOT KNOW how the custom chips work.
>
>   I mean, many amiga people i know here in Europe have the Amiga
>   because it's GREAT fun to code. It has that great custom chips
>   which make it really nice.  BUT, they are all hobby coders, that
>   means they code for fun. Not for selling their products. 'They
>   show 'em their friends' (ermm... almost) And they are not bothered
>   if that demo (or what) does not work on amiga 5000 because THEY
>   KNOW THAT!
>
>   I don't care if my little piece of coding doesn't work on the next
>   generation of amigas because I am NOT selling it!

    A personal computer product lives and dies in the market based on
it's applications.  Commodore, in their own best interest, wants to
ensure that as many applications as possible continute to work on
newer generations of Amigas, and hardware-hitting software is the most
difficult to continue to support.

    And of course, the application developers *will* use hardware-
hitting if it's an avenue for them; in the Amiga's tiny, limited-
payback market, every edge you can squeeze over your competitors
helps.

    So it's in Commodore's interest to conceal the hardware specs.
Unfortunately this leaves the basements demo hackers out of the
equation.  This is usually okay; the amount of money to be had from
basement hackers is small.

    Wanna change this policy?  Convince Commodore that there's a lot
of $money$ at stake.  I don't know how you could do that, especially
since you claim not to be interested in selling your work.

    I think the AGA chips will be cracked shortly, anyway.  Then
you'll have a hacker's document to work from.  This should be okay,
and will probably not threaten Commodore's application base; it would
not be smart for any commercial interest to base any of their
decisions on such an unreliable document.
-- 
Richard Krehbiel                                 richk@grebyn.com
OS/2 2.0 will do for me until AmigaDOS for the 386 comes along...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: gilgalad@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin)
Subject: AGA monitors/ IDEK MF series ????
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:22:22 GMT


Ok.  Here are the monitors that I know will sync down to 15KHz:

Sony 1302
Sony multimedia monitor
Mitsubishi DiamonScan (old 14")
IDEK MF5017 (17")
IDEK MF5021 (21")
Princeton Ultra 1600
Princeton Ultra 1400
Mitsubishi ProScan (23" +)

I'm sure that there are more, but I don't know what they are.
I have many questions regarding all of these monitors still.  I'm trying
to amass data concerning them, and I will repost a summary.
The questions I have are:  who has these monitors?  What are your
opinions?  I want a monitor 16" or larger, know of any more?  What is
the dot pitch like?  What are the exact scan rates (horiz, vert)?
Microprocessor controlled? How heavy (remember, over 70lbs requires
special shipping)?

If you have answers to any of these questions, please forward them to
me via email, and I will incorporate it into my list.  I'd really like
to know how sharp the displays are as well.  I'm used to ultra
crisp displays at work, but when I see PC monitors, I feel they are sorely
lacking in quality (with the exception of Sony).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: PC, Redneck President, and other bad news. (was Re: Amiga 1200)
Followup-To: talk.politics
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:29:24 GMT

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>>Do you really think that  being able to buy any kind of gun is a freedom ?

>It is a fundamental part of US law - it is in our constitution.

Unfortunately, our founding fathers were most familiar with flintlocks, guns
that take 30 seconds at the least to load.  Try going to your average
playground and gunning down children at that rate.  "Freedom" my ass.  If
being able to buy semi-automatic rifles without background checks and waiting
periods is freedom, then we should be able to buy plutonium at gun shops as
well.

Followups to talk.politics.
-- 
		       "I'm Slash man, Slash!" - Slash

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: fuzzy@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: CHEAP A2000 speedup??
Organization: Foxes 'R' Us - Seven locations to serve you
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:17:06 GMT

Can anyone give advice on how to inexpensively speed up a more-or-less
standard A2000 system?  I don't have a lot of money to spend, but I want
to know if there are any cheap but effective ways to upgrade to
something faster than a 7 MHz 68000.  Retaining compatibility would be
nice, of course.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE         | Fuzzy Fox                  fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0   | a.k.a. David DeSimone      an207@cleveland.freenet.edu
#define  FALSE  1   |   "History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes."
#endif              |                               -- Mark Twain
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:59:28 EDT
From: <LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: A1200 Expansion Connector
 <36552@cbmvax.commodore.com> <ele0136.720799102@radon.sys.uea.ac.uk>

In article <ele0136.720799102@radon.sys.uea.ac.uk>, ele0136@sys.uea.ac.uk (A.
Harvey) says:
>
[stuff deleted]

>Is there anyway I could connect my present GVP Series II HD + 4MB (16bit) fast
>RAM
>to one of these new 1200's ? I'd like to upgrage but I can't really afford to
>get a 1200 + Hard Drive + 6MB total memory (as I have now).

Not very likely.  1200 was designed to cut cost.  The 68020 processor is
running at 14.3MHz (or so). Putting a 500 style 86 pin expansion port or
a Zorro port would require extra synchronization logics (cost $$$) to
slow things down to 7.14MHz for the expansion bus.

It doesn't mean some 3rd party(ies) won't make a 1200 -> 500 expansion
port with all that extra logics for users to migrate.  The amount of
complexity is comparable to synchronization logics that is required for
the A2620's (or other 14MHz accelerators) 68020 to talk to the
motherboard as a 7.14MHz CPU.  Exactly how much that will cost, how
much the market would pay for it and how many would buy it is the
question.  On the other hand, a WELL DESIGNED peripheral might be able
to work at the higher clock speed with MINOR changes in the circuit
design.

K. C. Lee
Elec. Eng. Grad. Student
Disclaimer: I haven't seen a 1200 nor its hadrware specs.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: How can I get an HD Floppy Drive?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:29:10 GMT

In article <pfc.03pc@redorc.chi.il.us> pfc@redorc.chi.il.us (Paul Covello)
writes:

>Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a Commodore High Density Drive?

According to the latest issue of AW, the Software Hut (1-800-93-AMIGA)
has them in stock.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl)
Subject: More RAM chips for A2058
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Keywords: ram, A2058
Reply-To: etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:18:58 GMT

I'm just about to buy some more memory for my A2000 with a C=
A2058 (or is it called A2052?). 
The problem is that I'm not 100% sure about what type of RAM 
chips I should buy. I _think_ the card wants 511000-chips
(16 for 2Mb), but as I said -- I'm not sure.

Could someone help me?  Reply *fast*, since I have to buy the chips
in a couple of hours.

________________________________________
/ Tomas Pihl
/ ELLEMTEL Telecom Systems Lab, Sweden
/ email:   etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.hardware:19070 alt.sys.amiga.uucp:2635
From: salnick@dejavu.spk.wa.us (There is no substitute for displacement...)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware,alt.sys.amiga.uucp
Subject: Re: Unexplained read/write error
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:52:42 GMT
Organization: PDSG

In article <mark.0w64@legend.akron.oh.us> mark@legend.akron.oh.us (Mark E Daniel) writes:
>Today I switched on my monitor to check my mail.  I noticed a requester.
>A beautiful message from AmigaDOS.  vp;ume "IVS_Harddisk_0 has a read/write
>error".  Not wanting to think my HD has been badly corrupted I clicked
>Retry.  The machine went on hapily tossing news (Whatever they call it in
>UUCP) without a complaint.  Here is the output of C:Info
>
>                                                                     
>Mounted disks:                                                       
>Unit      Size    Used    Free Full Errs   Status   Name             
>DF0:      No disk present                                            
>DH0:       79M  120365   39365  75%   1  Read/Write IVS_Hard_Disk_0  
>RAM:        3K       7       0 100%   0  Read/Write RAM DISK         
>                                                                     
>Volumes available:                                                   
>IVS_Hard_Disk_0 [Mounted]                                            
>RAM DISK [Mounted]                                                   
>5>                                                                   
>
>I'm running OS 1.3.  I have no idea what caused this, and my system seems
>to be behaving.  Any suggestions for a cause?  Should I buy a utility to verify
>my HD?
>
>mark@legend.akron.oh.us

I ran UUCP on 1.3 until a couple of days ago, without incident.  I have had a 
couple of bad blocks appear on the disk over time...(nothing lasts forever - 
life is a battle against entropy).

I suggest you buy a copy of Quarterback Tools - it will allow you to fix 
errors when they appear, and it will allow you to mark bad blocks which 
appear so that Bad Things do not happen.  It is real cheap insurance.

bob

--
RW Salnick, Spokane,WA  |  Home: salnick@dejavu.spk.wa.us
  Amiga 1000, WB 2.0    |  Work: mfgsys!salnick@kaiser.spk.wa.us
      WA9BVE            |
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Amiga 1200
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov  5 1992
Date: 04 Nov 92  11:04:04

> Organization: Amiga Colony BBS
> From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
> Message-ID: Paula_Lieberman.0702@amicol.uucp
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
>
> How about Commodore calling some more chips by -male- or sex-neutral
> names,
> or better still, leave out the anthropomorphisms........

How  about Gary (in A500's, A2000's and A3000's, and I assume the A1200 and
A4000)?   Or  Ramsey (I would say thats a male name)?  Or Buster (A3000 and
A4000,  I  think  the  A2000  has one too)?  "Super DMAC" is pretty neutral
(thats  the  SCSI DMA chip on the A3000 - BAD commodore for not putting one
of those on the A4000!).  And the 8520's on all Amigas satisfy the last one
- although those arent Amiga specific chips.

I think its all rather cute, I dont mind it at all.  They probably could do
well to make some more "male" chips though.  Of course lets not also forget
the name "Amiga" itself which is female.

Do you find any of this offensive?  I dont see why, I wouldn't be.  I mean,
there ARE lots of things with masculine names too..

 - Dances With Coyotes - World's slowest programer -Given that the universe-
 ---------------------------------------------------is infinate, and god is-
 ------------ And the fat lady sings... ------------all powerful, would you-
 ---------------------------------------------------like some toast?       -


--- Maximus 2.00
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.hardware:19542 comp.sys.amiga.misc:16766
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: How to tell if A4000 has OFS or FFS
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:54:54 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

Okay, I finally got the A4000 and have installed the networking software
so that I can transfer the files from the A3000.  But I don't want to do
anything until I find out if the HD is one of the ones that is formatted
wrong.  HDToolbox says that the filesystem is "custom" and I can't figure
out what the hell that means.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: toredale@idt.unit.no (Bjoern Tore Dale)
Subject: 0-wait-state DRAM on A3000/16 ?
Reply-To: toredale@idt.unit.no (Bjoern Tore Dale)
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 01:19:24 GMT

I'm not a hardware guy, so please bear with me if my questions seem
stupid:

Is it possible to make use of 60ns SCZ RAM in an A3000/16 in such a
way that the usuage of the RAM becomes 0-wait-state ?
Furthermore, _if_ (I'm not sure _what_ it does) the 030 is currently
runnning in 3-cycle mode (or something like that), is it possible
to make it run in synchronous 2-cycle mode, thus increasing
performance by 50% instantly ? 

If this is possible it seems to be a nice way to give at least 
a 50% speed increase, and even more if burst-mode is used 
(as I currently only have 256x4 non-burstable DRAM).
This is particularly interesting since there's no big price difference
between 80ns ($15.50 each) and 60ns ($18.50 each) 1Mx4 SCZ chips.

By the way, I think the new A1200 should have used a 68EC030 instead of a
68020, making it possible to have 0-wait-state FAST RAM at 70ns, and
doing so in 2-cycle mode rather than the 020's 3-cycle mode.
The little price increase would be worth the more than 50% speed
increase in raw performance (perhaps almost 2x increase ??).
And CBM: _please_ include at least 1M of fast RAM on the A1200 !!
(1M chip and 1M fast of RAM is better than 2M of chip only).

Regards
 - Bj\rn T. Dale
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Is a 6mb 1200 available???
From: radnor_j@qis.dofasco.ca
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:25:13 GMT
Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can.
Nntp-Posting-User: radnor_j

In article <36691@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> In article <1992Nov4.120216.1453@decuk.uvo.dec.com> hilton@bahtat.dec.com writes:
>> 
> At this point, nothing is available in the US and the machine has
> just hit retail in the UK within the last week.  I would expect a
> month or two delay before expansion slot peripherals really start
> to pop up, though someone could come up with a basic memory
> expansion or '030 card real quick and surprise me.
> 
> -- 
> George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...

Although, a new A1200 owner could buy a PCMCIA memory card (16 bit) right now
off the shelf if he/she wanted some fast Ram. But of course, being 16 bit
memory means that this Ram wouldn't be all that fast. Oh well, looks like
we'll have to wait for the new expansion slot peripherals. 

One small question, George, in the A500 the expansion module A501 included a 
battery backed up clock. Will the A1200 already have its own clock or will 
this be a feature of an up-and-coming expansion slot peripheral? You know,
so we can have the correct time stamp on our files :).

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                 __                  |Basil (to Sybil)  
John Radnor                     ///                  | Racket? That's BRAHMS!
(Radnor_J@qis.dofasco.ca) __   ///  Amiga gives you  | Brahm's Third Racket!!
                          \\\ ///   a creative edge! |-Fawlty Towers
                           \\X//                     | (A Touch of Class)
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: A4000 -=> 68EC040
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:24:26 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Nov6.103421.3729@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk writes:
> Hi Everyone.
> 
> I have heard a report that not all A4000's have the full blown 68040 CPU
> and instead have the 68EC040 CPU ( The cut down version ). Can anyone 
> tell me if this is true, and if so are the machines marked different. I
> am going to buy an A4000 in the next four months and I want all the raw
> smoking power of the 68040.

All A4000's include the full 68040.  The rumor stems from the fact that the
user manual alludes to upgrading a 68EC040 model, however at present the
full 68040 model is the only one being sold.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: jfieber@sophia.smith.edu (John Fieber)
Subject: A2024 (lack of) quality control; any experiences?
Summary: Trials with a defective A2024
Keywords: monitors, A2024
Organization: Smith College
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:44:41 GMT

I recently purchased an A2024 monitor.  I really liked it except that
I thought it was defective.  There were two problems:

- The whole image "wiggled" as if you were looking through a tray of
  wavy water.  The effect was not dramatic but annoying an quite
  tiring on the eyes.

- The top edge of the screen image had a very pronounced "bump" up in
  the middle; the screen titlebar was distinctly curved.  A simple grid 
  backdrop pattern looks like one of Escher's bizarre geometric 
  distortion drawings.  After about an hour of warmup time the distortion
  would mostly disappear.

I described the symptoms to someone at the place where I ordered it
and they thought it was defective and told me to send it back.  So, I
sent back.  I don't believe there is any electromagnetic fields in the
vicinity that would be causing the problems; my 1084 works fine in the
exact same spot with the exact same power supply (right down to the same
power cord!)

Just yesterday I got the replacement and it exhibits the exact same
problems only to a *greater* degree.  Has anybody else had these
difficulties?  If these are "normal", then I'm going to be asking for
my money back.

The first one being bad was not a problem.  It reminded me of when I
used to work in a stereo retail store.  It was ordinary to
occasionally have something defective right out of the box.  The
second bad one reminds me of a tape deck I bought. After 3
replacements, about 10 times in the service shop and 2 years of
battling with the company, I finally got one that worked. This was a
case of poor quality control and poor service.  If I'm going to have
similar problems with this A2024, I'm going to try and get my money
back now.

Also, the first one was a bit fuzzy in the corners; this one is
blurry all over.  Well, I must stop writing now because the waves are
making me sea-sick. (really!)

-john

-- 
===jfieber@sophia.smith.edu==================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: dmacphee@nyx.cs.du.edu (Don mac phee)
Subject: Laser Tag (Was Re: Hardware questions)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 23:36:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.153221.21484@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> Winfried.Krueger@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Winfried Krueger) writes:
>dmacphee@nyx.cs.du.edu (Don mac phee) writes:
>
>> If you're REAL good, and have the proper hardware, you only need to look
>>once. 8-)
>
>You're talking about cyclops, aren't you?

 B & L makes a set of binoculars with 2 eyepieces but only one viewing
lens.... So yes... a cyclops.
--
Amiga /s/   Donald Mac Phee  \\\ agimA  Should the message regarding whether
2000 /s/ Rpg110@Uriacc.Bitnet \\\ 0002 or not you want to post your rantings
 \Perot dmacphee@Nyx.Cs.Du.Edu \\\///  come AFTER you've written your flame?
  \XR/ Personal_09@Ecl1.Uri.Edu \XX/   1 in 5 for Perot. Says something?
From: ericf@npic.Corp.Sun.COM (Eric Francis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: NO A3000 Power Light!!!
Date: 11 Nov 1992 19:15:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ericf@npic.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: npic.corp.sun.com

In article 721471115@pv0a27.vincent.iastate.edu, guido@iastate.edu (BP Walenz) writes:
   :Here's the sceneraio.  I was working on a small C program, it compiled, so
   :I executed it.  The power light died, the machine DID NOT lock up or crash.
   :(And, no, the program was not supposed to do this.)  So, I reboot.  The light
   :is still off.  So, I kill the power, wait a couple of minutes, power on again,
   :and (guess what) NO light.
   :
   :Everything else appears to be working fine.  Ideas??
   :

Try running a program that turns the audio filter on and off.  If that doesn't work, I would assume that the LED burned out or the connection is loose.  As I recall, the LED is tied to the filter.  I'd also play back a sample with the filter on and off to see if it sounded different.  Something may have happened to the filter.

Eric

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: markus@beaver.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Markus Illenseer)
Subject: Re: Ethernet cards for Amigas?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:13:12 GMT
X-Newssoftware: GRn 1.16g (10.31.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Reply-To: markus@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Organization: Universitt Bielefeld, Technische Fakultt

In article <1992Nov9.180225.8275@msdrl.com> andrews@msdrl.com (Richard Andrews) writes:
> Are there good ethernet cards available for the Amiga 3000?  I am looking to
> link my 3000 with an IBM via ethernet.  I want to share resources like CD-ROM,
> disk space, and tape backup.  I suppose that another IBM running NetWare could
> do the trick.  What other options do I have?  Run UnixWare on the IBM?

 NetWare is unknown to me. If you runNovell Netware, you are lucky.
 There is a Novell Client available for Amiga, of course you need the
 Ethernet-Card first. The only company selling the Novell Client
 i know if is BBM in Germany, mail me if you want the adress.

 Remember, it's only the Client, no export possible.

>
> What cost are we talking for ethernet cards for the Amiga?

 Such a board (A2065) should be around 250$US w/o software.

>
> -rla
>

Have fun... Markus

PS: Where is the new AS225 ! :) I want WB 3.1

-- 
Markus Illenseer       EMail: markus@TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.de
Universitaet Bielefeld Fax: (+49 521) 106-2992
Technische Fakultaet   Phone: (+49 521) 106-2938 ; (2935 Sek.)
Angewandte Informatik  SnailMail: Postfach 100131, D-4800 BIELEFELD 1
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green (+61 6 276 6813))
Subject: How do I connect a SCSI tape drive ?
Organization: CSIRO ITS
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 23:54:23 GMT

I have just purchased a SCSI tape backup unit. I have a SCSI interface in
my Phoenix A1000.

The problem is the tape unit has a _very_ odd looking connector. It _looks_
like a centronix socket with 50 pins. My SCSI interface has 2 interfaces, a
50-pin one for _internal_ devices and an 26 (25?) pin connector for
_external_ devices.

What do I connect to where - and what with!  HELP !!!!!

-- 
* Steve Green     *  "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat!"    *
* Comms Group     *  "That trick never works"                            *
* ITS Branch      *  "Nothin' up my sleeve - PRESTO"                     *
* CSIRO Australia *  "No doubt about it - I gotta get another hat"       *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware