HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: narain@bass.bu.edu (A.V.S. Narain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: My comments on the film "In the name of God"
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:37:54 GMT
Reply-To: narain@bass.bu.edu (A.V.S. Narain)
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Boston University College of Engineering

In article <724134005@danube.cs.duke.edu> malhotra@duke.cs.duke.edu (Manish Malhotra) writes:
>Anand Patwardhan is the maker of this film. Many have    
>liked this film and are promoting it. I just wanted to
>present my views on this film. Judge the film yourself after
>you have seen it. I do not wish to begin a discussion.     

I congratulate you (Manish Malhotra) on your excellent analysis..It is
quite clear as to what these anand patwardhan types are upto - plain
manipulation of event reporting to support their ideologies. I appreciate
your comments about these and the people who support types like him.
Portraying that the RJB movement as an upper caste conspiracy, that the
lower caste hindus are opposed to it.etc., have been going on for some
time. It is these progressives who would still like to see these old caste
loyalities remaining, after all in that case they can appeal in terms of
age old suppression and make their  bread and butter. When these so called
liberals are supporting or taking a stand on any issue, I will always be
sure that they are doing out of some expectation of benifit...say they
being accepted as secular. Havent we seen their dirty faces in 1942, when
they would act as spies for the goverment..support pakistan
resolution..just so that their communist goals could be achieved? As to the
people who are with these types..They are very similar to the british
socialists in the early part of the century. Well settled, comfortable,
nothing to worry about in lives, and support something because it looks
glamorous...i doubt that any of these "liberals" have any
comprehension of any issue..much like the guys of the same ilk who had no
idea as to what the chinese were upto in 1962..and my God..there are so
many of these on the net....
You have very clearly said what i have always thought they were doing.

The so called liberals suck.

Narain.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:27:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <BzD5x1.1rq@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>In article <17576@umd5.umd.edu> gopals@astro.umd.edu (N. Gopalswamy) writes:
>>Mr. Narayana:
>>
>>Could you please post the original article about fake US degrees
>>in TN and the precautions US employers should take before
>>hiring any one from TN? Thanks.
>>
>>gopal
>>
>
>The article is about 2 printed pages. The article does not say
>that US employers should take precautions. But there was
>some clean up operation being planned by the UGC. How much
>they will be successful, god alone knows. Till then one
>has to exercise caution.

	I am not very surprised by the news about fake degrees. But Kuram
	Narayana's interpretation and his attempt to use this to
	discredit the TN education is obviously ill-mativated, given
	the past record his postings on issues related to 'Tamil'. 

	I am sure he might be well aware of the fact this phenomenon
	exists throughtout India, though the particular article in India
	Today might be specially about the problem in TN. But I don't know
	whether he cautioned the US employers and Universities before.

	A few years back there was a "mark sheet" scandle in Kerala and
	lots of fake mark sheets and University degrees were sold for
	few thousand rupees. 

	And there was another fake institute in near Chittoor, Andra Pradesh,
        called Maruthi College of Engineering, supposedly affiliated 
	 "US International University", issuing fake degrees.

	UGC routinely issues newspaper advertisements about the fake 
	Universities offering "graduate programs" in India and cautions
	the public that those institutions are not recognised by UGC
	and so also their degrees. There were about two dozen 'universities'
	identified and there was one in Trichy called 
	"Dravidadesha Samskrit Vishvavidyalaya" offering degree courses	
	in Sanskrit and related studies.

	And it is not surprising either the clients are only politicians,
	musicians, industrialists etc., who would like to have these
	degrees and titles. But I wonder any of those would apply for
	RA/Post-docs/graduate programs etc. in US.

	Anyway it is another attempt of Kuram Narayana to discredit
	Tamils and deserves to be ignored.

>
>I will see if I can get the time to type out the full article.
>IF YOU JUST TRAVEL TO YOUR LIBRARY, it is in the Dec 15th, 1992
>issue of India Today.
>
>
>The caps above are because the caps key accidentally got locked.
>There is no other reason.
>
>...kt

	M. Sundaramoorthy
	sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
From: vj@lns598.tn.cornell.edu (Vivek Jain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: progress in India!
Date: 17 Dec 1992 13:55:25 -0500
Organization: Wilson Lab, Cornell U., Ithaca, NY  14853
NNTP-Posting-Host: lns554.tn.cornell.edu



When RG sided with the fundamentalists in the Shahbano case, it was said that
he took India back to the 13th century. With the demolition of the mosque, I 
guess you could say we went back to the 16th century. So, in a way, we have 
made tremendous progress (300 yrs. worth) in less than a decade. At this rate 
we will get to the 21st century quite shortly.

vj

p.s. please don't send me direct messages. if you have any comments please post
From: rajan@bambam.uucp (Rajan Kanitkar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Leadership and Vision from Center.
Keywords: communal carnage, ayodhya
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:27:57 GMT
Organization: ESL, Sunnyvale, CA

In article <1992Dec11.002754.18555@lgc.com> thiru@lgc.com (Thiru Bollam) writes:
>
>
>  3) There is no dearth of evidence in our history about destruction of
>     temples and them replaced with mosques by Mughal emporers.
>
>  6) If Democracy and Secularism are at clash on some issue, which side
>     do we take? 
>     If we prefer democracy to prevail at all times, then isn't Democracy
>     means "for the people, and by the people...".
	    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Its not a government of the people, by the people for the people.

It is government of appeasement addicts, by cowardly
back-stabbing hindus, FOR Moslems.


>
>  7) Ban the RSS/VHP/BJP, is it a shrewd step taken by PM? These
>     organizations, I believe, probably represent(albeit, strongly) the
>     beliefs of the Hinduism(may not be all the time!), rooted in India. 
>     So should this 'ban' be considered as a SLAP on those mystic beliefs??
>   
>In my opinion, All this is because of short-sighted decisions the 
>PM (Oh!, is he not MPs's representative-I wish trasitivity relation
>shouldn't hold good here!) has taken innumerous number of times, and
>the LACK of VISION(unknown to congie), lack of Leadership. So, I think,
>he(his cabinet) should be morally responsible for his failure to be able to
>exhibit these traits, which are crucial to lead a country,
>
>In my opinion, it's the failure of leadership, lack of vision from the centre
>paved the way for the sorry state of affairs. What else can be called lack of
>vision if NOT, taking the ill-decision of taking the resolve to build the
>mosque at the same site where the temple stands NOW (I wish this is true!)...
>
>
>Thiru


I am thoroughly revolted by the actions of the Congress(I) government.  
To equate nationalistic Hindu organizations such as the RSS
and VHP with the secession-minded Islamic fanatic
organizations such as the ISS or Jamaat-e-Islami is hypocrisy
and demagoguery of the highest degree.
Congress(I) has once again shown
that the I in its name stands for Islamic bootlickers.
Forget Nehru-Indira-Rajiv. PVN Rao, under his benign image, 
has turned out to be the most devious and despicable 
congressman of them all.
A government that fights the removal of a symbol of foreign
oppression tooth and nail and promises to rebuild it has 
gone off the deep end.
Such an oppressive government, which treats
Hindus as third-class citizens in their own country and
arrests and persecutes those leaders who support their cause
will come crashing down as hard and as quickly as the Babri
Mosque did. 


Rajan
From: vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Cricket: English Team is Ready to Go....
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:30:50 GMT

England Tour is On!

    The Foreign Office, with  assurances  from the authorities in India, 
guaranteed the safety of the England squad on their subcontinental tour
in the New Year, and Graham Gooch's party will leave as scheduled on 28
December.  Alan Smith, the chief executive of the TCCB  was told yester-
day that the original tour itinerary could stand as arranged.

    A wave of sectarian  violence in the past two weeks, which resulted
in the deaths of more than 1,200 people, had placed the England tour of
India and  Sri Lanka in jeopardy.  There were discussions of a possible
alternative for the winter.  But the Indian government has clamped down
since the unrest and the British High Commission in Delhi has given its
vote of confidence.

    If the tour had been cancelled, it would have been the  second back 
to back cancelled  England visit to India after Gooch and several other
squad members were refused visas in 1988 because of their South African
connections.  Gooch said  yesterday: "The  authorities are  clearly not
going to let us go out there if things were not in order - so hopefully
we will be able to concentrate on our cricket."

    There were also doubts over the  Sri Lankan leg of the tour after a
bomb exploded, killing four people, outside Hotel Taj Samudra in Colombo
where  the New Zealand  cricketers were staying.  Five players returned
home but the tour continued.

    The welcome  green light came as English squad were finishing their
pre-tour training at Lilleshall.  Gooch said:  "The value of these last
six  weeks has also  been that a great team  spirit has been generated,
and that the newer guys, like  Paul Taylor and Richard Blakey, now feel
part of the team. We can now go straight into our practice on the first
few days of the tour with no worries about gelling the side and getting
some players introduced to each other. Our aim, as usual, is to win and
play as attractively as we can."

Tour Schedule:

    ENGLAND IN INDIA AND  SRI LANKA:  
03 Jan v Ranji champions (3 days) Faridabad. 
08 Jan v Indian Board President's XI (3) Kanpur. 
13 Jan v Indian Board President's XI (1) Indore. 
16 Jan First one-day international, Ahmedabad. 
18 Jan Second one-day international, Jaipur. 
21 Jan Third one-day international, Delhi or Chandigarh. 
23 Jan v Indian Under- 25 (3) Cuttack. 
29 Jan FIRST TEST, Calcutta. 
05 Feb v Rest of India XI (3) Vishakhapatnam. 
11 Feb SECOND TEST, Madras. 
19 Feb THIRD TEST, Bombay. 
26 Feb Fourth one-day international, Bangalore. 
01 Mar Fifth one-day international, Jamshedpur. 
05 Mar Sixth one-day international, Delhi. 

10 Mar First one-day international, Colombo (day/night). 
13 Mar TEST, Colombo. 
20 Mar Second one-day international,Moratuwa.


Vicky:
UMass, Dec 20

+++
Summarized from the newsclips
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Sati's history
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:49:20 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1gifc8INN3vf@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>Suppose that woman WAS committing a full fledged sati by any standards.
>So what! If I do some really bizzare stuff (maybe dance nude with a pig :)


But IF you were dancing nude with a pig AND singing "Muslims made me do it"
THEN we might object.

j n a
Newsgroups: soc.culture.india,soc.culture.indian
From: penu@plains.NoDak.edu (Suresh R. Penu )
Subject: LOOKING FOR A ROOMMATE IN LA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:13:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Hi netters,
          One of my friend, is going to attnend West Coast University for the
Spring Semester 1993 and he is looking for a person who can share a room with 
him.  He is comming from Madras.  If any one intrested send a e-mail
to                    watsan@nsula.edu
                          (OR)
                      penu@plains.nodak.edu

Please don't forget to include your contact number in you email.

Thanks in advance.

Suresh.
From: crick@lcmv.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD))
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:54:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.220040.2027@ryn.mro4.dec.com> verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
>
>	Where the hell did I stop him? I was interpreting the significance
>	of cow killing according to my inner-most self of course. If he 
>	gets offended that is his problem not mine.

What a load of cow-manure.  You were pontificating on the psychological ills
of eating cow meat as taught by the Vedas.  At no time in the original 
string did you indicate that you were just stating the interpretation of
your inner-most self.  Now you're "waffling."  Are you also trying for a post
in the Clinton administration?  Certainly not as Sec. of Agriculture.
>
>	If you think about it we both are not terribly tangential - the
>	only difference is that you are only 'science' fanatic and I am
>	both 'science' and 'religious' fanatic. We both disregard 'dogma',
>	however.
>
I have yet to read your arguments against the scriptures, therefore how can
you state that you disregard dogma.  Oh, I stand corrected: In your post
calling for war against Pakistan and Bangladesh, you clearly were anti-
dogmatic, as no religion would preach such violence.

Ed

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Need Secularism
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 13 DEC 92 16:30:35    


I am a so called Hindu fundamentalist according to many (this is a scary word
for most, I am not a hypocrat). Since Muslims all over the world want 
secularism in India, I want secularism in Bangladesh, Pakistan and 
Afghanistan. My demand is as based on the same logic as those 
of orthodox Muslims'. If they cannot do it, I want our secular Govt. to
attack Pakistan and Bangladesh and then teach them a lesson of secularism.
Hindus know lot more about secularism than Muslim zealots and WORMS.

If psuedo-secular forces of India cannot fulfill the demand of this
fundamentalist Hindu, then shut up your mouth and don't talk about
secularism.

Remember tolerance is not cowardice. Renunciation is not weakness. We
Hindus cannot be fooled any more by these WORMS.

-- Virendra Vernma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sun219@joy.cs.uakron.edu (C. S. Girish)
Subject: INDIAN AIRLINES STRIKE!!!!
Organization: The University of Akron, Akron, Ohio
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:04:45 GMT

HI NETTERS,

MY FOLKS RANG ME UP TODAY MORNING TO INFORM THAT ALL I-A FLIGHTS WERE CANCELLED 
DUE TO PILOTS STRIKE! ALSO IF YOU ARE AN INDIAN PASSPORT HOLDER PLANNING TO GO 
AROUND K.L., M'ASIA......FORGET IT......ACCORDING TO THE LATEST RULES (PASSED
ON 12/14/92 ?).....YOU NEED A LOCAL SPONSERSHIP LETTER! SO IF YOU ARE TRAVELLING
TO INDIA ONE OF THESE DAYS (LIKE ME) ....GET READY FOR ALL KINDS OF SURPRIZES!



TAKE CARE,

GIRISH
From: satwant@regulus.att.com (BL0528540-Satwant Singh ALC2505)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:48:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Originator: news@cbnewsg.cb.att.com

In article <1glic5INN5de@menudo.uh.edu> mece1uh@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>
> Governments in UP, MP, Rajasthan and HP "dismissed".......
.
.
>     Rao's dismissal of the state governments came just over a week after
>he used similar constitutional powers to sack the BJP-led government in
>Uttar Pradesh................

So, now the press refers to it as a "constitutional power".  If I
remember correctly, the constitution of India says that the Prime
Minister can do so only at the recommendation of the Governor of that
state.

>     ``The dismissals amount to a declaration of war against democracy,
>and the Indian people will give a befitting reply,'' said Atal B.
>Vajpayee, a BJP member and former foreign minister.

The war against democracy WAS declared two decades ago, and the
people in the other parts are giving a befitting reply already, since
over a decade !!
Where were you when.................(it happened to "others")?

In the original Indian constitution the Governor of each state was supposed
to be elected by the state legislator, much as the president is
elected by the central legistlators. But a single ammendment (in 1949?)
that said that the Governor will be appointed by the president, has
allowed the situation to come to this, that the duly elected 
state governments have to survive at a Prime Minister's mercy,
who may not even represent that state!

regards,
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
From: wes4@pyuxd.uucp (25141-stanley)
Subject: Question re. U.S. citizenship
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:35:25 GMT
Followup-To: poster

	I understand that prior to being sworn in as a U.S.
	citizen, the applicant is interviewed and is expected to
	answer a few questions about American government, history,
	and the like. I know that the applicant is also furnished with
	a booklet detailing pertinent information in this regard.
	Does anyone who has gone through the process know at what
	point in the proceedings this booklet is issued - at the
	time of notification of the interview, or later, but leaving
	sufficient time for the booklet to be read before the 
	interview?
		Thanks in advance for your replies.

		Wendell
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Indian Muslims had it their way since the independence.
Keywords: Garv se kaho ham hindu hai!
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:39:33 GMT

In article <1gb3d9INN6pp@kumquat.cs.utk.edu>, vkodali@cs.utk.edu (VENKATA RAMANA
KODALI) writes:
> In article <1992Dec10.231341.19014@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
sardesai@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Shantanu Sardesai) writes:
> 
> ******* stuff deleted ********
> 
> 
> >	Hindus have tolerated the Indian Muslims too much. Muslims give
> >more importance to their religion than to the motherland India. For
> >them we accepted a different national anthem "Jan gan man ..",
> >than our good old independence song "Vande mataram..", even after
> >the partition.
> >
> >	Muslims in India can do any thing under the name of their
> >religion because they are minority. But  if Hindus  even try to
> >protect their religion then its an anti-national activity.
> >
> >	Indian Muslims had it their way for a long time! The question
> >here is not only of demolishing the mosque.There are so many issues
> >which needs to be resolved since the independence.The mosque demolition
> >is just a representetive of the  lack of religious independence and the
> >frustration that Hindus have faced for last 45 years in their own
> >country.
> 
> ***** stuff deleted ******
> 
> >	Garv se kaho ham Hindu hi! Vande Mataram!
> 
> Nice article. One of the few articles depicting the reality of the situation
> in India. It is time to stop all the privileges enjoyed by the muslims
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^




Perhaps you could mention a few of the socalled "privileges".





> as a minority in India. 
> 
> >shantanu.
> 
> Venky
> vkodali@cs.utk.edu
> 
>


--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Need Secularism
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:23:10 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Worma squeaks:
>
>In article <1992Dec14.041525.23568@news2.cis.umn.edu>, crick@tsp.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD)) writes...
>>>
>>Preaching against the psychological implications of cow-killing is an
>>excellent example of your knowledge of secularism.
>
>	That is how you celebrate secularism in USA by 'killing cows' against
>	the feelings of most Hindus? Or killing 'pigs' against the feelings
>	of most Muslims? 

	aNd wHy foR you aRe
	eNfoRcemEnt of pHeelIngS on DifFerent reLigion faiThers AgaiNst
	ThEir wAntu wisses?? yOu wantu don't eAt pig, no Eat. why yOu aSkiNg
	Crikku burger nOt to eatu burGer?? iF hE saying to you, " ViRendRa 
	WORMA no eAtu plant cauSe my phEelings hurt", aRe you in thE 
	listenMent???????


>	Why are you hiding your 'real secularism' under the
>	covering of WORMS. Get lost in the woods - a place your kind of
>	species enjoy the most. Can't fool this guy.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	nope. You're right there. Nature has already done a good job on you.


>	States, Autralia and now South Africa. Examine your own ethics
>	before touching our ethics. 

	the same advice applies to you, Dung-a-ling.


>	(I'm assuming you'r white macho some
>	anti-eastern western brought up Judo-Christian).


	and you're some black not-so-macho anti-western eastern brought up
	pseudo-vedic-sanctimonious-Hindu. :) Boss, you do Ram Lakhan proud.

	FFT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Idol worship and Hinduism
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:32:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <BzL0Dp.AsE@cs.psu.edu>, narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
> 
> Thus breaking idols and beating them with chappals, the dravidian
> racists of EVR and his followers have precisely desecrated that
> very object that the devotees consider as Brahman, because without
> that notion there is no such thing as mediatation. That is why
> it is a crime. In mythology, Rakshasas used to do such things.
> In modern days, we have these fellows!
>

I think you are equating idol worship with worshiping Brahman
through an idol. If the aim is the latter, then I dont see why
a chappal cannot be an idol. 

The only reason I can see for not breaking idols/beating them
with chappals is that it will hurt devotees feelings. There are
better ways of making a statement. As for desecration, nothing
is sacred except Brahman. My beliefs, of course.

Who is EVR ?

> ...kt

RKP
Organization: Senior, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA