HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ian@Agranat.COM (Ian Douglas Agranat)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Feminist Comedy Night 10/15 Burlington, MA
Date: 29 Sep 1992 18:11:39 GMT
Organization: Agranat Systems Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

SHE WHO LAUGHS, LASTS
An Evening of Feminist Comedy

Featuring well-known Boston Area comics 

	- Lea DeLaria		- Jana Rivington
	- Peigi Cleminshaw	- Meigs Glidewell
	- Erica Bobone		- and many others...

Time:  Thursday, October 15 (doors open at 7:15PM, curtain at 8:00PM)
Place: Days Inn, Burlington, Massachusetts  (Exit 32B off Route 128/I-95)

Join us for an evening of laughter, good food and cheer, raffles, prizes, and
fun.  A good time is guaranteed for all.

Tickets $15, available at the door if not sold out.

A fundraiser, sponsored by Lexington Area NOW, to help elect feminist 
candidates (proceeds to Massachusetts NOW PAC).  For more information, email to 

 	gonzalez@sofbas.enet.dec.com, or
	ian@agranat.com


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From: cortese@skid.ps.UCI.EDU (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: control over display of the feminine form
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:25:01 GMT

In article <vashti.717862758@concave> vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin) writes:
>In <1a7vmdINNmb6@agate.berkeley.edu> bickis@skmath3.pa.dec.com (M. Bickis) writes:
>>In article <19vnthINN7tc@agate.berkeley.edu> rdh@veritas.com (Robert Hartman)
>>writes:

>>>Some years ago, in the late 70's or early 80's a woman who's name
>>>I'm having trouble recalling (Nancy Holliday?) put out a book
>>>called "The Dinner Party."  It was a collection of at least a dozen
>>>renditions of vaginas made on paper plates at a party they had.  It
>>>garnered a lot of giggles and groans, but also a lot of respect.
>>>That was one method women that those women used to take control
>>>over the portrayal of their bodies.

>>I think you're thinking of Judy Chicago (close though :-)), and it
>>was an art exhibition.  The plates were laid out on along a huge
>>table, as if for a genuine party.  Perhaps a book was published
>>about this show.
>
>There was a film made of the exhibition called "The Dinner Party".
>It also dealt with the making of the plates (in ceramic, I think). I
>saw about 5 years ago and if my memory serves me correctly, it was
>very interesting -- each setting at the table was labeled with a
>well-known woman's name (historical and current) and a voice-over
>gave short biographies of each woman.

Interestingly, considering the subject line, many galleries refused to
display it, calling it "obscene."  For reference, read Naomi Wolf's
_The Beauty Myth_ and Elinor (something)'s _The Once and Future
Goddess._

Regards,
Janis C.


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From: seggev@unssun.scs.unr.EDU (Guy Seggev)
Subject: Re: Anyone noticed the new mudflaps?
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: Guy Seggev <uunet!unr!unssun!seggev@ncar.ucar.EDU>
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:42:23 GMT

In article <19i6gvINNqqo@agate.berkeley.edu> flaps@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
>
>I think that this is completely sensible, because the real issue is
>control.  In both of these cases, women are saying that it should be
>up to them, not men, to choose when and where to display their
>breasts.  So it is just as wrong for men to display women's breasts
>as it is for them to prohibit women from displaying their own
>breasts.  It's like any other question of women's choice.
>
>  -- Alan "flaps but not mud" Rosenthal

I certainly agree that men (or other women, for that matter) should
have no say about wether a woman may or may not wear a top, I think
that pictures (or other images, or statues, etc..) are another matter
altogether.  Think for a minute about Michaelangelo's David statue, or
other works of art which display a nude male.  Should they be banned
as well?  Now, I hardly consider mudflaps to be 'art' (the word
'kietch' meaning junk comes to mind), but opinions may differ (one
person's 'trash' is another's 'art' and so forth).  So I hardly think
it appropriate to regulate what 'art' a person decorates his/her own
property (truck, in this case) with.  That's a violation of both
property rights and the first amendment.  Now, if the truck is owned
by a company, you might call the company and inform them that this
sort of decoration gives them a bad name.  When you go from trying to
remove unfair regulation (like laws saying women can't go topless), to
trying to legislate a code of conduct, you've gone from fighting
opression to substituting one Tyranny with another...

Which in my opnion is one of the traps certain branches of the current
feminist movemet have fallen into.  They have confused sex with
opression, and have started trying to ban any sort of erotic material.
Many equate any sex with rape.  In particular, C. MacKinnon and A.
Dworkin have fallen into this trap.  And they have been criticized for
it by other feminists.  It's interesting to note that the founder of
feminism, Betty Friedan, noticed this trap and tried to push the
feminist movement AWAY from legislating morality.

On another, only tangentally related subject, Betty Friedan recently
agreed to an interview with Playboy magazine, a publication which many
feminists find objectionable.  When asked if she felt like she was
'consorting with the enemy' she replied 'I don't believe in talkink
ONLY to the already converted' (emphasis mine).  I would like to hear
how the people reading this group feel about that (particularly the
women).

Guy Seggev
seggev@unr.nevada.edu



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From: kaarts@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Kenneth John Aarts)
Subject: Re: (none)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:29 GMT

In <MUFFY.92Sep30104111@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy%remarque.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.berkeley.EDU (Muffy Barkocy) writes:

>How is it that "being beautiful" can give women power?  Basically,
>because *men* give them power because of their beauty.  There is
>nothing, as far as I know, inherently powerful about being beautiful
>- the power comes from the fact that the people *with* power value it
>enough to trade some power for it.

A) Again, the role of women is completely ignored.  Do not other women
offer deference or preferrence to beautiful women?

B) How does anyone gain power?  By someone giving it to them.  Some
people have power because the rest of us choose to give it to them

Ken

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Newsgroups: soc.feminism,news.answers
From: spp%zabriskie.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.berkeley.EDU (Steve Pope)
Subject: Re: marriage/parental role models (was Re: social activism)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:10:03 GMT

Muffy writes:

> The problem is in the current popular view of marriage and
> families.  Adults who choose to produce children should make a
> commitment to those children, distinct from any commitment to a
> partner.  The people who want to work should be able to work, the
> people who want to take care of the children should do so,
> regardless of their gender [...]  One thing that would improve
> this situation is to have multiple-adult families.  This would
> also take some of the stress off each adult, as there are more
> to share the work.

Not only do I agree with this 100%, but wish to amplify
upon it, a bit.

The root cause of all the stress and trouble relating to
child custody, child support, and parenting in general
is society's attempt to cling tenaciously to concepts of
marriage and family that never did work very well in the
first place.

A child needs to be "parented" (hate that word..), but the
entity that does so could easily be a single adult, a pair of
adults, or a greater number of adults, and all of the above
may be of any combination of genders.  There's no fundamental
reason that "two" should be a magic number.  Why should this
parent-entity ideally be a heterosexual couple presently involved
in a committed relationship?  As a society we really need to
get past these outmoded stereotypes as to what constitutes a
"good family".

We hear a lot about the "breakdown of the traditional family" and
the proposed solution is almost always a "return to family values".
To me, this is way off-base.  Why propose as a "solution" the same
exact plan that failed in the first place?  Why not also support
the practice of single parenthood, as well as multi-adult families
as Muffy suggests?  The more options you have, the better your
chances of finding one that works.

Steve

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From: cortese@skid.ps.UCI.EDU (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: a clarification
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:15:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

I think I need to clarify certain things about religion --
specifically my stance on it.

I recently said (in a rather stringent way -- my style) that the
paradigm of the distant and cool father who orders his son's bloody
and violent death before he can forgive the world has a lot to do with
the current good soldier ideal.  This was not blowing off of steam
over the net, but something that I've arrived at after years of study
and thought about modern western religion, and comparatively eastern
religion.  I was not just ripping aimlessly, but expressing an opinion
I arrived at after much reading and introspection.  I simply tend to
express my opinions a little more -- *expressively* -- than most.
This is simply my style; I've grown used to posting like this and
sometimes forget that I am on a newsgroup where this is not known.  I
post to one other groups with great frequency, and they have gotten
used to my posting style.  Perhaps I simply forgot that I've been
posting there for about a year and just moved on over here with my
mouth going full steam.

In the future, I will try to get you guys used to my strong style of
expression without beating you over the head with it on a very
sensitive topic -- as long as you try to read my ideas and give them
due consideration no matter how stridently I express them.  Please,
though -- read.  Read some Mary Daly, Barbara Walker, Merlin Stone,
Rosalind Miles.  My opinions do have a background; they aren't just
the ravings of someone over the net.

Regards and thanks,
Janis C.


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From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
Subject: Re: bashing feminism in soc.feminism
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:51:15 GMT

gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes...
GF> I think the problem with the constant questioning of the
GF> validity of feminism and other basic views is that we never
GF> get beyond them to other issues.  For example, I recently
GF> mentioned that some feminists had theorized that homophobia
GF> is produced by patriarchy or male suprmacist ideology.  This
GF> is a highly debatable issue; many other causes or origins
GF> can be hypothesized.  However, instead of discussing the
GF> issue within the context of feminism, Will Steeves wrote
GF> in to challenge the idea that patriarchy was anything more
GF> than a plot by power-seeking feminist conspirators to
GF> denigrate all men.

No, Gordon, I did *not* say that.  I *only* said that when
"patriarchal theory" is used to explain *all* inequities in society,
then it may be getting taken too far.

I did *not* take offense with patriarchal theory as such, but *only*
with instances where far too many problems are attributed to it.

That is all.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Corel Draw does it all?  If not, there's always EDLIN.

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From: randy@ms.uky.edu (Randy Appleton)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Military Quote
Date: 28 Sep 1992 15:00:37 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

About all this discussion of women in the military ....

I posted the original quote.  A different quote (that I no longer
have) also by a member of the Joint Chiefs says that he wouldn't want
women in combat even if these women did *better* in tests of military
performance than men.

One of the congressmen asking him asked if this meant the the
original speaker would be willing to see a drop in military
performance in order to avoid women in combat.  His only reply was
that he was a "traditionalist".

Probably this story would be different if there was some women (the
congress-critter, the general) somewhere in it.  But alas, there were
none.

Kinda makes ya think.

-Randy



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From: swartz@sfu.ca (Norman Swartz)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Info wanted: MA and PhD programs
Date: 28 Sep 1992 15:22:55 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Keywords: philosophy, feminism, program
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

To aid in advising students, I am trying to put together a small
database about post graduate programs in Philosophy and Women's
Studies (or Feminist Philosophy).  I would be pleased to have you
send me directly (at one of the email addresses below)
information you might have about such MA and PhD programs at
universities in Canada and the United States.  Which universities
have joint programs in philosophy and women's studies (or
feminist philosophy)?; which have programs in philosophy that
allow for a substantial component of (or concentration in)
women's studies (or feminist philosophy)?

Please understand that I am asking for information about the
existence of such programs, their location, their size, etc.  I
am NOT soliciting opinions about the quality of these programs.

Many thanks.
==========================================================================
Professor Norman Swartz   |  e-mail (via Internet): norman_swartz@sfu.ca
Department of Philosophy  |  e-mail (via Bitnet):   swartz@sfuvax
Simon Fraser University   |
Burnaby, B.C.             |  fax:                           (604)-291-4455
Canada V5A 1S6            |
==========================================================================




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Newsgroups: soc.feminism,news.answers
From: schg_ki@tpki.toppoint.de (Ralf Schiering)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: radical nurses/CASSANDRA
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:38:49 GMT
Organization: Toppoint Mailbox e.V.
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

By reading the German translation of Mary Daly; Pure Lust [Boston 1984],
Beacon Press I found a short notice on a

        network of radical feminstic nurses: CASSANDRA

As address was mentioned

        CASSANDRA
        P.O. Box 341
        Williamsville
        N.Y. 14221

Is there anybody who can give me additional informations on this
group or a relevant organisation for nurses and medical interested
feminists.

---------------------------------------------------------
Jutta-Andrea Hollstein  |e-mail: schg_ki@tpki.toppoint.de
Helsinkistr. 88         |        100112,447  (CompuServe)
2300 Kiel 1             |--------------------------------
Germany                 |Tel. +49-431-521822 (voice)
---------------------------------------------------------

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From: rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Anyone noticed the new mudflaps?
Date: 28 Sep 1992 03:57:36 GMT
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <198anbINNgt1@agate.berkeley.edu> dsy@psych.toronto.edu (Desiree Sy) writes:
>Can you imagine side silhouettes of naked men on mudflaps?

Actually, I have seen such mudflaps.

This brings up the question that is the proper response to be degraded
by someone or some group is to reverse things and degrade the
offenders?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doug Rudoff          Motorola, Seattle    INTERNET:rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com
                                            USENET:uunet!mdisea!rudoff   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


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From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: control over display of the feminine form
Date: 30 Sep 1992 15:34:46 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, University of the Witwatersrand
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In <1a7vmdINNmb6@agate.berkeley.edu> bickis@skmath3.pa.dec.com (M. Bickis) writes:
>In article <19vnthINN7tc@agate.berkeley.edu> rdh@veritas.com (Robert Hartman) 
>writes:
>>Some years ago, in the late 70's or early 80's a woman who's name I'm
>>having trouble recalling (Nancy Holliday?) put out a book called "The
>>Dinner Party."  It was a collection of at least a dozen renditions of
>>vaginas made on paper plates at a party they had.  It garnered a lot of
>>giggles and groans, but also a lot of respect.  That was one method
>>women that those women used to take control over the portrayal of their
>>bodies.
>I think you're thinking of Judy Chicago (close though :-)), and it was
>an art exhibition.  The plates were laid out on along a huge table, as
>if for a genuine party.  Perhaps a book was published about this show.

There was a film made of the exhibition called "The Dinner Party".  It
also dealt with the making of the plates (in ceramic, I think). I saw
about 5 years ago and if my memory serves me correctly, it was very
interesting -- each setting at the table was labeled with a well-known
woman's name (historical and current) and a voice-over gave short
biographies of each woman.

Vashti
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Vashti Galpin                      vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa.  Tel 27(11)716-3295 Fax 27(11)403-1926


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From: susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.EDU (Susan Soric)
Subject: Seeking connections w. feminist theologians
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Univ. of Chicago
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:28:36 GMT

I'm working on my master's degree in
feminist theology and I am interested in
making connections with others interested
in the same subject.

I am particularly interested in connecting
with feminist theologians in Eastern Europe,
and even more specifically in Croatia and
the Balkans, but I am not limiting my
interest to these areas.

If you would like to try some correspondence
and if you know how I could make connections
with feminist theologians in Eastern Europe,
please drop me a note:

susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu

Thanks!

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From: Jennifer M. Stephan <jms@bilge.ece.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Joyce Carol Oates
Date: 2 Oct 1992 04:50:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

Hi - I was wondering if anyone had any comments about Joyce Carol
Oates as a feminist writer?  I, personally, have identified strongly
with many of her main characters.  I loved her novel "I Must Remember
This" and many of her short stories.  I particularly found her mystery
"Nemesis" (under the pseudonym Rosamund Smith) provacative.  Specifically,
a detailed scene of a male raped by another male describes how he feels
"like a woman."  This is a sampling of her work - all of it 
inspiring --- Any comments?

Jennifer Stephan


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