From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: golf shoes
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:10:38 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   21 Dec 92 06:31:23 GMT
>FROM:   Isaac Kim <kim@guppy.uucp>
>
>In article <2933867890.0.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:>>DATE:   Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:00:26 GMT
>>>FROM:   Daniel M Racicot <dmr@apmaths.uwo.ca>
>>>
>>>I have a few questions about shoes. I'm a beginner but would like to get 
>>>some for Xmas but don't have a clue what to look for.  
>>>
>>>I'm a pretty bad player (110-115) so is it even worth getting them?
>>>What are the good brands? I really want something waterproof.
>>>
>>>Any help would be appreciated.
>>>Dan
>>>dmr@apmaths.uwo.ca
>>
>>Do you need golf shoes?  Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, yes 
>>you do.  Even if they don't help your game, they could save you a broken 
>>leg the next time you try hitting off a sidehill lie in the rain.  
>>Simply walking the course becomes easier -- no sliding up or downhill --
>
>Golf shoes are only useful when it is wet outside.  I really believe

No doubt you do believe this.  Consider this.  It is always wet here, 
except when it's frozen over.  Now what? (Rome, NY).

>that they become a crutch when the ground is dry and the traction is
>good with just a pair of tennis shoes.  Golf shoes allow you to get
>away with an unbalanced golf swing, which if not corrected will lead
>to serious fundamental weight shift problems like swaying too much.

What of those of us who have had this problem corrected?  May we wear 
golf shoes?  What of the non-purists that would prefer a crutch that 
helped them keep their balance?  As for golf shoes allowing one to get 
away with an unbalanced swing, I doubt that golf shoes are so grand as 
all that -- good, but not that good.

>If you play in an area where it rains alot, I would recommend a pair
>of waterproof golf shoes.  

But if it doesn't rain a lot, I can't have any golf shoes at all, right?
And if I do own a pair, I'm not allowed to wear them because it will 
screw up my golf swing?  Have I got this right yet?


>But here in San Diego, I have played golf
>for 6 years in Nike cross-trainer athetic shoes and have had no
>problems with traction.  I used to play with Footjoy Classics, but 

Not surprising in San Diego.  Track shoes give a lot of support, have a 
patterned, thin sole.  A lot like dimpled golf shoes, actually.

>found them to be a pain because they were not as comfortable as my
>tennis shoes.  They also seemed like a high maintenance item because 
>you always seem to be cleaning or polishing them, or replacing
>spikes. etc.  After I wore out the Footjoys in 4 years, I switched to 

Probably the wrong last.  If it was a Stratton, try a Rex, or vice versa.
(Maybe that's Staunton, I can't remember.)  I rarely bother to polish my 
shoes after the first baptism of mink oil and silicon spray.  I consider 
a pair of shoes completely shot after 3 years.  I usually have 3 -- new, 
medium, and old.  I wear the old ones at the range.  The medium become 
next year's range shoes, and I wear the new ones in tournaments, which 
become next year's everyday shoes.  I need 3 pairs.  Pretty disgusting, huh?

>just wearing my cross-trainers and did not notice any performance 
>difference.  I have managed to maintain a single digit handicap 
>after the switch from spikes to tennis shoes.  I even remember a Golf 

Sounds like sandbagging to me.  Establish a handicap without the 
"crutch" then slip on a pair of golf shoes and go rob everybody at the 
point of a nine iron.

>Digest tip that some PGA pros practice in tennis shoes if they are having
>balance and weight shift problems.  If you can hit them just as well

Bobby Clampett?  He also was into things like taking the club back in 
about 45 stepwise sequences among the other oddities that put him behind 
a microphone.  Talk about a great swing gone bad.  My heart goes out to 
Bobby, by the way.  I really thought he was going to do something big, 
sorta like what Corey Pavin has done, but it didn't work out.
>with tennis shoes on the range, why not wear them on the course?  
>
>>good golf shoes are made for walking.  There is also a stigma attached 
>>to golfers who don't wear golf shoes, just for a cultural motivation.  
>
>This alledged STIGMA is pure BULLSHIT and is what gives golf a bad 
>name as an elitest sport among the non-golfers.  Part of what drives 

Do you mean that it doesn't exist, or that it shouldn't?  The "alleged" 
bullshit does indeed exist. To wit:

Cast of characters:
Mumbles
The Mayor
Dr. Strangeclub (Your narrator)
The Pro

Our fourth has failed to arrive.  A youngish man is standing by the cash 
register.  The Pro has come to our table.

The P: You guys are lookin' for a 4th, right?  This guy's a single, says he's 
a 12.  Should I ask him?

Mumbles: He wearing sneakers.  Isn't there somebody else around here?

Dr. S:  Did he rent a set of clubs?  That would explain the shoes.

The P:  No.

The Mayor: Just a second.  He's going outside.

The mayor goes to the door and watches the guy go to his bag, then returns.

The M:  Bad bag.  No sandwedge.  No chance.

The P:  Ok.  I'll just stick you guys off in a half hour.  I'll send him 
off as a single or something.


Now.  Was it because the guy was not wearing shoes?  Partly.  It was
the entire picture of someone who was not knowledgeable of the game, who 
would step on the putting line, who would move while you were hitting, 
that would do a thousand annoying things during the round.  We didn't care 
what he shot.  He'll get his weight on the first tee.  He could shoot 
anything, just so long as he was a golfer.  He did not appear to be a 
golfer.  With a pair of golf shoes he probably would have joined our 
group.  Had it been you, you probably wouldn't have wanted to play with us, 
though, what with our stinking elitist golf shoes and golf shirts and all.
May have been just as well.  Could have cost you a fortune.  Which 
brings to mind another point...people that don't wear golf shoes rarely 
play for stakes.  Just an observation covering almost 40 year of 
playing.

>potential new golfers away from the sport is this IMAGE thing that 
>you have to buy all of these things to look like a golfer before you
>can try the sport.  Nothing gives me more pleasure than joining up 
>with some guy who thinks he is a good golfer because he dresses like 
>a PGA golf professional.  This "neat guy" is usually wearing his nice 

Argh.  We can barely support 50 million golfers worldwide, already.  What 
makes you think I want the course to be overrun with egalitarian 
idealists wearing bodyshirts?  (This is called a straw man in logical 
debate, by the way. Just thought I'd let you know that I have no 
intention of remaining rational at this point, in keeping with the tone
of the following rant.)  

>FootJoy Classic golf shoes, his polyester Hagger golf slacks which are
>a little too high and tight around the waist, and some golf shirt with
>a PGA West or Pebble Beach crest.  He also usually has a huge tour leather
>bag which he pulls or has mounted in the golf cart, which are filled 
>with graphite shafted Ping Zings and Big Bertha woods.  I guess I normally
>look like that kid in the Top Flite commercials (only 20 years older and
>I don't have a band-aid holding the whipping down on my driver).  I
>sometimes get that disapproving "you have a stigma attached to you
>since you aren't wearin golf shoes" look.  I just laugh at him and 
>usually go on to whip his butt on the golf course.
>

I guess it's sort of like an addiction.  First the golf shoes, then the 
polyester pants, then, curtains, the tour golf bag.  Are Haggers more 
addictive than say, Corbins?  What if the guy is just rich?  He can buy 
any kind of equipment he likes, so why would he play with shit for 
equipment?  Why is not possible to have bad taste in pants and an 
expensive set of clubs while maintaining humble perceptions of one's 
playing ability.  The word "judgmental" springs to the lips.

>When I went home to Calgary last summer, I played a few rounds in the 
>rain and found that slipage was not that much of a problem in my tennis
>shoes.  

But it was a problem.

>I really think that after playing in tennis shoes for so long, 
>I do have better balance in my swing.  As well, your tempo is a little
>better because if you swing too hard, you end up slipping away.  The 

Without golf shoes, I can't swing hard enough without slipping.  I have 
to swing like a sissy without spikes.  True, I don't need them for short 
irons, but when I have to carry the corner of the dogleg, I want spikes.

>only problem was that my feet were soaked.  Waterproof shoes would have
>been nice. 

So why don't you wear golf shoes?  Afraid somebody might think you're a 
golfer or afraid of ruining your balance?
>
>>As for your 110-115, I think a good pair of shoes could actually trim a 
>>few shots off that, since a just a few slips could account for quite a 
>>few shots during the course of a round.  
>
>If you are shooting 110-115, that $100 spent on golf shoes
>would be much better spent on some good golf lessons.  
>

Just what is that single-digit?  I'm a 3 now, after that last 69.  Just 
wondering what could possibly inspire such confidence.

  ,...,.,,
 /666;    ',    jim tims
////;    _~ -   p00168@psilink.com
(/@/----0-~-0
 ;'  . `` ~ \'
  , `    ' , >
;;|\..((   -C---->>  The first thing the pro would suggest is a 
  | >-  `.__),;;     good pair of golf shoes.  Lighten up, son.


From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com