HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Joining
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:41:48 -0500

"Stephen P. Marting" <sm6h+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

 DA> BTW, I see you're a 'Mutian too.  Mebbe you could drag Mr. Prock along
 DA> to your next Open House?

 Spam> Well, if he didn't go to the University of Minnesota, I'd consider it.
 Spam> As it is, I think it's rude to drag someone that far...

Whoops!  I thought he was at CMU.  Sorry, I must have misread, or maybe gotten
confoozed by some CMUtian's reply in the reply chain.  Now that I thread back
thru it, the ".umn.edu" leaps out at me....


From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Is the Bible really what the authors wrote?
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:37:12 -0500

ericj@eskimo.celestial.com (Eric Jorgensen) writes:

 EJ> What makes the Bible so different as to not be subject to
 EJ> the same amount of criticism as the Illiad or Odyssey? 
 EJ>  It cannot be said that
 EJ> the difference is the mention of 'God', because both 
 EJ> of the Homer books also contain mentionings of 'gods'.

And because nobody ever claimed that gods *wrote* Homer's stuff.  Lots of books
*mention* gods; that point is irrelevant.  But anyhow, let me try to think like
a Fundamentalist for a minute and see what I can come up with:

1) The Bible was written by God, not by mere mortals.  His memory is perfect.

2) The translators of the editions we accept were very devout men, who prayed
for divine guidance, and of course received it in order to create perfectly
accurate translations.

3) Shut up you commie faggot or we'll burn you at the stake.  Whoops, sorry, I
got carried away.

Ouch.  My brain hurts.  But anyhow, see how easy it is to come up with all sorts
of rationalizations if you're willing to accept certain axioms?  If you deny the
Fundy these axioms, the Bible must be subject to the same scrutiny as any other
book.  If we do subject the Bible to such scrutiny, most English translations
fall apart, and much of the KJV can be shown to be "creatively translated" to
suit James' politics, but at least the Hebrew version of the Old Testament shows
very little change over the past couple millenia, which is a step in the "right"
direction....


Organization: Sophomore, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:39:28 -0400 
From: "Stephen P. Marting" <sm6h+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: student membership

Excerpts from rec.org.mensa: 21-Jul-92 Re: student membership by
"Elizabeth A. Macknik"@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu 
> As a student, I cannot afford to join Mensa--even though I qualify.  (My SAT
> scores are sufficient.)  I currently earn $7000 a year as a technician
for the
>  
> college while earning my engineering degree.  I wish I could be active, but
> since I am over 25, I don't qualify for the student discount.  I do feel
> that it is a rather arbitrary limitation.  Can anyone explain why Mensa
> has this particular restriction?  IMHO a requirement that you be a
> full-time student would be more reasonable.  Comments?!

Sure, I've got a comment.

You can send in your scores just like everyone else, and when they send
you the packet that you fill in and send back with your dues, write to
the membership officer in charge of dues reductions (who is listed in
there somewhere) and explain your situation.  Most likely, you WILL be
granted the same exemption as any other student.

You may even want to suggest the generalization to full-time students
while you're at it.

This is the second or third time I've explained on this group (and
within two weeks, not in a year or anything) that Mensa is NOT
inflexible on dues.  Do we have some sort of FAQ here that we can put
all the insructions about joining, test scores, and dues?

--
Spam is:               | This statement needs no qualifiers.
Steve Marting          | Most people never call me this.
spam+@cmu.edu          | A cute address that wastes computing resources.
sm6h+@andrew.cmu.edu   | Above and below are forwarded here.
R746SM6H@CMCCVB.bitnet | Extra storage space.
"Is 'Spam' a word?" - Parker Lewis Can't Lose
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ vs. Faith
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:03:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.190618.21468@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> 

> You can't have it both ways.  Either the Bible errs in calling the first
> four days "days" (in which case the validity of the entire work is called
> into question) or "day" in Genesis doesn't mean "sunset to sunrise."

One minor correction:  sunset to sunset; although even in the first "day,"
before there was a sun, it does say, "it was morning and evening; the
first day."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Why GREENSleaves?
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:28:42 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Jul23.134510.4261@ugle.unit.no>, mortenaa@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Aagaard) writes:
> Why is most vegetation green? Is this a result of random evolution or
> is there any particular reason for not growing blue?

Cuz the chlorophyll pigments make them green...  without chlorophyll you
get a real dull plant that's no fun at parties.

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa national versus local, New York City
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:27:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.27Jul92132752
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:
>
>  PH> From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill) Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
>  PH> Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants
>  PH> 
>  PH> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>  PH> 
>  > GLAAM manages to print and distribute thousands of copies of a 32 - 40
>  > page newsletter every month with available funds.
>  > 
>  > The newsletter money from American Mensa is supposed to be enough to
>  > publish a calendar of local events and mail it out first class, period.
>
>I believe you missed his point.  Re-read the first sentence of his second
>paragraph, especially the part referenced by "period."

No I didn't.... Read the first paragraph.   I beleive that it's impossible to
produce newsletters with 'available' funds.

I also beleive that national *SHOULD* be giving local groups enough money to
produce quality newsletters.  Ask 1000 mensans if they would rather give up
their local newsletter or the Bulletin.  I'll bet that 900 of them would
ditch the Bulletin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: student membership
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:33:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.071356.2761@news.Hawaii.Edu>, macknik@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Elizabeth A. Macknik) writes:
> 
> 
>  VG: I would like to be a member of mensa. I know that I would qualify for it. 
>  VG: My question is,"Is there any special rates for students' membership ?".
> 
>  NDM:   There is a 50% discount for students under 25.  By the by, I've had
>  NDM: a problem with the "under 25 limitation" from before I hit 25.  It seems
>  NDM: to me that this necessarily means graduate students are not offered a
>  NDM: discount.  Most schools offer annual salaries to (science at least) 
>  NDM: graduates of less than $12,000.  If anyone needs that discount it's
>  NDM: starving graduate students!  I vote for a removal of that age limit!
> 
> There is an implied bias here--that undergraduates are not over 25.  However,
> in the U.S., over 40% of undergraduate students are non-traditional.  
> While non-traditional includes many designations, the primary criteria is
> being a student over 25 years of age.  (It also includes veterans, etc.)
> 
> As a student, I cannot afford to join Mensa--even though I qualify.  (My SAT
> scores are sufficient.)  I currently earn $7000 a year as a technician for the
> college while earning my engineering degree.  I wish I could be active, but
> since I am over 25, I don't qualify for the student discount.  I do feel
> that it is a rather arbitrary limitation.  Can anyone explain why Mensa
> has this particular restriction?  IMHO a requirement that you be a
> full-time student would be more reasonable.  Comments?!

The following are my perceptions and may not be what Mensa's policies or
thoughts on the matter actually are.

The implication is that a student who is over 25 probably has an income--or is a
"professional student."  Mensa doesn't want to be stuck with getting 50% dues from
someone who is able to pay, or who is avoiding the workplace by "hiding" in school
for longer than is necessary to get a degree.  I realize that there are exeptions,
such as yourself and other people whom I have known.  The following paragraph
describes Mensa's policies for those exceptions.

The following is Mensa's actual policy, as I understand it to be (which may be an
incorrect or incomplete understanding):

Regardless, in addition to the automatic exemption, Mensa will process requests
for (full or partial) dues waivers from anyone.  I know of one single mother in
her 30s whose only income was a Pell grant and AFDC who received a waiver for
the initial testing.  She would also have received a dues waiver if she had
scored at the 98th percentile and joined, but she scored at the 97th percentile.
From: SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Look out guys - Mensan denies evolution
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:40:58 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA18600; Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:41:06 -0700
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> This guy sets out to rubbish evolution.  The dangers here are:
> The creationists may notice and say 'a Mensan is on our side' or even 'Mensa 
> agrees with us'
> The evolutionists may notice and write us off.
>
> Claims (from an article in UK Mensa magazine):
> Geochronometry using radioactive dating has been shown to be deeply flawed 
> and unrelaible.
> Earliest fossil dating = date surface water first appeared.  Hole-in-1 very 
> unlikely.
> Where is the helium from decaying uranium?
> Sedimentary layers should take millions of years to form but contain eg 
> whole trees in vertical positions.
> Usual stuff about horrendous gaps in fossil record.
> No sign of missing link - all hominids are human or ape.

  These are valid points (dare I say excellent?). Refute them, instead.

-- 
                                              --Syed Shibli
                                                ssr48327@vax1.utulsa.edu
                                                +1 918 631 3257
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Subject: Re: Scott Tai's "working" email address
Originator: cjdcosta@zepplin.ece.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:49:18 GMT


wombat@nfinit.enet.dec.com (Christopher M. Conway)writes:
>Just wanted to let you all know, in case you didn't bother to try. I sent
>email to the alleged "working" email address. It did get swallowed up, but
>there has been no response. So I think it's probably attached to /dev/null.
>Don't even bother.

Personally, I think he came across an arbitrary Tai address and posted it.
Unless the hapless owner of that acct is familiar with news and r.o.m., he's
probably still wondering why he's getting random email. And the email must be
ending up in /dev/null.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Why GREENSleaves?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.170957.2027@brandonu.ca>, mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
> In article <1992Jul29.182205.26652@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> > In article <920725183852.2080b106@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU>, SSR48327@VAX1.UTULSA.EDU (Syed Shibli) writes:
> > }> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
> > }> 
> > }>>In article <1992Jul23.134510.4261@ugle.unit.no>, mortenaa@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Aagaard) writes:
> > }>>> Why is most vegetation green? Is this a result of random evolution or
> > }>>> is there any particular reason for not growing blue?
> > }>>
> > }>>Cuz the chlorophyll pigments make them green...  without chlorophyll you
> > }>>get a real dull plant that's no fun at parties.
> > }> 
> > }>   I remember extracting some cholorophyll from a few leaves as part of
> > }>   Biology lab. Pure cholorophyll is actually more bluish than green.
> > }>   I think the green hue comes from the mixture of sugar and the
> > }>   cholorophyll itself. 
> > 
> > I remember a similar experiment.  I also remember the chlorophyll extract
> > appeared green under ambient room light, but red when an intense spot lamp
> > was shined on it.  The teacher had no good explanation for that.
> 
> Maybe they were hot.  Maybe they were bleeding.  Maybe someone forgot
> to wipe the ketchup off the lamp.

I have a somewhat bizarrely-related question.  I was told long, long ago
that the structures of chlorophyll and hemoglobin were identical except
for iron in hemoglobin being replaced by copper in the chlorophyll.
Sounds fascinating, but is it true?  Completely or partially or similar
enough to be BS of a judgement call?

GMS
From: nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: T: To All MENSA Members...
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:31:26 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul23.213518.6135@ncsu.edu> tai@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us writes:
>
>MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people
>attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds
>'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which
>claims its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of
>such "harmless" little groups are born the divisive philosophies which
>feed nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.
>

   No, I wouldn't join a group that claimed it's membership was inferior
to others.  Neither would I join one that claimed superiority to others.
I think you're right, either attitude breeds unnecessary conflict.  I'm
quite satisfied with mensa, which claims only the third and unmentioned
option of equality.

   Yes mensa is an organization of people who score higher on some tests.
You've stated your opinion on the validity of these tests, and I accept
it.  Whether or not these tests actually give some measure of the 
elusive and subjective quality intelligence, seems aside from the
point.  You object to the fact that this criteria is used as a basis
for membership.  What I would like to know is, if this is the only 
membership criteria you object to.  Do you also object to such
organizations as the Grey Panthers, the Bald Eagles, the Boy Scouts
of America, the Pilipino American Alliance, the Gay and Lesbian
Alliance, ROTC, the United States Army, the American Chemical Society,
the Tom Thumb Society, or the Catholic Church, which make membership
dependant on such factors as age, religious beliefs, occupation,
sexual preference, heritage, nationality, height, or baldness?  

     
                                     - Nick




     
    

-- 
   _/   _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/   _/  
  _/_/ _/  _/  _/   _/  _/_/_/
 _/ _/_/  _/  _/       _/ _/                    Nicholas C de Mello
_/   _/  _/   _/_/_/  _/   _/                     Nick+@pitt.edu
From: mingmar@cs.mcgill.ca (Ming MAR)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Why GREENSleaves?
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:39:59 GMT
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada

>  I think mildew is a fungus, not a plant.
 
But fungi _are_ plants.
 
This thread hasn't answered the question of why there aren't more
blue plants (such as some lichen and various evergreens).  Maybe
having blue needles is less efficient than having green needles.
 
What color is seaweed?  What little seaweed I've seen seems to be
quite a bit darker than forest green.  Of course, since my sample
size is small, my impressions may be totally false.
 
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Joining
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:19:56 -0500

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

 g> sat@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai) writes:

Thank you for quoting him; if it weren't for that, I wouldn't have even known he
had written back to me.  (At least, that's what I ass-u-me the mention of me
means.)  Unfortunately, I don't have kill file ability here, but I do skip the
"Tai Shtick" routinely.  Anyhow:

 SAT> It is well-known that the 2% limit is quite blurry; estimates go as
 SAT> high as 20% as to what percent actually manages to qualify

No kidding.  See immediately previous message.  I personally would put it at
about 5% to 10%.  So?  We're not so picky that we'd refuse to socialize with
that level, unlike the Nazis you try to paint us as.  Heck, we even tolerate the
bottom 2%, as demonstrated by your continued existence.

 g> Also, I used to got to Mensa
 g> gatherings to have fun and relax.  Not to impress someone with my vast
 g> knowledge of whatever-the-heck is in vogue.

Awww, have mercy on the poor kid!  Don't wanna destroy his image of us.

Scott, we do nothing at our parties but brag about our IQs.  We have so little
common sense that we don't realize that someone with an IQ in the top 2% is not
going to be impressed by the fact that we have an IQ in the top 2%, and so
little of a real life that we don't have anything better to do. Riiiight....

 g> And these are quite a bit more selective than any high IQ group.

Say, there's an idea!  Let's see... whites tend to have more endurance than
blacks, so the Olympic selection committee for the marathoners should be sued
for racial discrimination!  Now, Scott, you've got a MUCH better target.  Go
harrass them and leave us alone.

 g> But of the people that I like, those people that are 
 g> good at all those things, they tend to smart.

Especially when slapped for overly-overt overtures.

 g> And some peoples' egos react in such a way that this pisses them off.

...so much that they make ironic attacks about OUR egos!  Lego my ego!

 g> I guess if all the smart people in the world addressed themselves to
 g> the problems at hand it would be wonderful if there were no stupid
 g> people to argue with them.

 g> There'd be more parking places, too.

And more r.o.m bandwidth for useful things like awful puns, arguments over how
the AG should be run, and so on.  B-)
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: T/ T=Killfiles and whoami
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:36:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.031322.22146@ncsu.edu>, scott@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
> 
> 
> In article <712425627.F00002@blkcat.UUCP>, Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:
> |>  SA> From: tai-sa@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
> |>  SA> 
> |>  SA> In article <1992Jul28.203530.24028@seanews.akita.com>,
> |>  SA> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
> |>  > sat@ailab.ncsu.edu
> |>  > 
> |>  |> Ah, not only is he a virus, he's a *mutating* virus.  Off I go to edit
> |>  |> my kill file again.
> |>
> |>  SA> Maybe if your hollombe friend discontinued posting kill files for my
> |>  SA> id, I wouldn't have to continually modify it.  Then everyone would be
> |>  SA> happy.
> |>
> |>I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning...  ;-(
> 
> In other words, if hollombe will stop attempting to be the self-appointed 
> moderator for rec.org.mensa by regularly posting a kill file with the 
> current tai userid, I'll promise not to change my id.  I don't object to
> kill files, just to the idea of someone trying to tell everyone else
> what they should and should not read.  It smacks of censorship, and I
> think everyone here (well, almost everyone) is intelligent enough to
> make their own decisions about what they will read.

1)  He is not attempting to be moderator.
2)  He is not posting a kill file; he is posting instructions on how to
    make one.
3)  He is not telling anyone what they should or should not read.  He is
    telling them what they can do, should they decide that they don't want
    to read your drivel.

Tai, you are an obnoxious turd, who has been proven to be a liar and a
plagarist.  It is no wonder that few people want to read your crap.  If
you don't like it, you can change; otherwise, learn to live with it.  You
are a deceitful person, on a par with Oliver North, Richard Nixon, and
Joe McCarthy.  Learn honesty and integrity; you will be a better person
for it.
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: T=Killfiles and whoami
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:23:40 -0500

tai-sa@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes, as quoted by Craig Wagner:

  SA> Maybe if your hollombe friend discontinued 
  SA> posting kill files for my
  SA> id, I wouldn't have to continually modify it.  

Awww, poor Scotty-poo, can't stand the thought of people not reading his
wonderful gems of wisdom.  Face it, it is people's CHOICE to USE those kill
files on you or not.  By modifying your ID whenever it finds its way into
people's kill file, you are being like the salesman who pretends to be a UPS
carrier in order to get us to open the door, then the electric meter reader when
we've caught on to the UPS shtick, and the police when we've caught on to the
meter reader one.  So long as you keep up your spewing of discredited illogical
racist babble, people WILL put you in their kill files - whether hollombe helps
us with the config or not.


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mortenaa@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Aagaard)
Subject:  GREENs only
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:33:04 GMT

The various answers to my simple question about GREENSleaves was curious
reading (mostly), and a nice demonstration of the Internet.
The ironic postings about mammal-lips were not so amusing as I had expected from 
this group, but I asume the majority of contributors are not *real* mensians 
anyway. 






Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa