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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:47:52 CST
From:         wingo%7977.span@FEDEX.MSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject:      IDM Cost Breakdown

In preparing the cost proposal for the IDM's I think you should include the
cost of the Starter Kits that you want to mail out as well as the 2-4 mailings
per year. I think this will significantly impact the profitablity of the
venture and must be accounted for.

In addition I would like to propose that the voting for this entire thing
be postponed for one week due to the absence of a business plan for the venture

From just a cursory view, adding the costs of a starter kit and 2-4 mailings
will push the costs into the red and this is a legitimate concern that
I think has not been addressed by the proposers. A business plan, showing
how the venture will be handled, who will do the work and how much it will
cost is essential for an adequate review of the subject.

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:00:18 EST
From:         "(Amy Marie Houts)" <houts@PSS.FIT.EDU>
Subject:      Hi Sharon!

Hello, Sharon!  My name is Amy Houts, and I would love to talk to you
about SEDS, seeing as I've been a member for six years.  This is the
first year I've had access to E-mail, so I can understand your
concerns.  MThis organization has truly changed my life, and if
space is your interest, you've come to the right place!  We've
just started a SEDS chapter at Florida Institute of Technology
and I've also had the privilege of being a member of SEDS at
both the community college and high school level.

What exactly are your space interests, hobbies, career interests, etc?
Perhaps I can help you get in touch with some other people with
similar interests.  We are trying to do this at FIT SEDS and
would like to set up some "electronic pen pal" Special Interest

Groups within SEDS to discuss a variety of space-related topics.
y majors are mechanical engineering, space science, and music
composition.  I hope to get a Ph.D. in materials engineering.
My hobbies include anything space-related, astronomy, flying
(private pilot), scuba diving, hiking, piano, violin, dancing,
karate, and making lots of new friends.  My career goal is
to become an astronaut, and as an engineer to develop methods
for mining indigenous lunar materials.  I also have a very
strong interest in space life sciences and space art.

Why am I telling you this?  I want you to know that there are
individuals in SEDS, not just talking titles (I'm guilty of
talking about taxes, conferences, etc.too--it's all part
of business).  Thanks for reminding us that SEDS is as
much about people as it is about a space organization.
PLEASE send me some E-mail at:

houts@pss.fit.edu

I'd love to hear from you, and once the rest of our membership
gets set up on E-mail accounts, you'll have plenty of space
cadets to chat with.  I look forward to hearing from you and
learning more about YOUR interest in space!

See ya!
Amy Houts :^)
SEDS National Executive Board (sometimes Boring) Member

P.S. My apologies to all of you who have to contend with
yet another gross display of "Amy Verbosity!" :^)
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:41:03 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Board Vote in Progress

	Well, maybe in the hubbub of the Presidental and other elections on
Tuesday, you forgot that the SEDS-USA National Executive Board is conducting
a vote on individual memberships.  That has to be the case, given the lack of
discussion on the issue (especially when compared to the heated discussions that
took place on the t-con ;-) and the fact that only one vote has been cast.
So, take this as a gentle prodding to discuss the issue of IDMs... =)

Ad astra,

Jeff
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:10:04 EST
From:         DJKALMAN@COLOSPGS.BITNET
Subject:      re: ftp site

I agree.  SEDS-L logs are very helpful.  I used them to catch up on the news
I missed when my mailer died.  SEDS-L doesn't take up that much space, and I
know of a lot of other students who use it when their mailers crash (for some
reason, university don't really care how often their mailers crash  :)

There is a SEDS ftp site at hoshi.colorado.edu  run by Richard Johnson.
If you are having problems with space, maybe you can talk to him about using
the space there for the old logs.

David Kalman
SEDS Natl. Board member
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:09:24 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Voting Reminder

	Just a reminder: the deadline for SEDS-USA national board members to
vote on the issue of individual memberships is 11:59pm PST Sunday, 8 November.
E-mail your votes to both Lisa (alweigel@athena.mit.edu) and myself
(jafoust@cco.caltech.edu) by this time.  I don't plan to try and interpret
people's votes by going through their SEDS-L messages, so e-mail the votes
to us.  Thanks!

Ad astra,

Jeff
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:01:33 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      NOVA, etc...

>It's Monday the 9th and we want to know ewhere the Nova is....
>It was supposedly mailed 10 days ago.........
>We can't have these delays with IDM.

Geez...I knew that we would never live the IDM thing down, but
Jeff did mail the hard copy of the NOVA more than a week ago...
blame snail mail...we could Fedex it next time...

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:38:37 EST
From:         alweigel@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Where should IDM replies be sent?

If the concept of IDM's is approved by the Board, then I strongly encourage
everyone to consider what return address is listed on all the IDM publicity.
I strongly believe it should be the SEDS-USA Permanent HQs address.

Folks, we have only one *permanent* SEDS HQs address.  It will always be here.
That gives us an incredible ammount of credibility.

If, as Jeff and John point out, the IDM program should "move about" to
whatever group wants to handle it any given year, how will it look to
someone who picks up publicity from one year, and then picks up another
sheet of publicity another year, only to find that the address has
changed for IDM's?  Wouldn't that seem a little fishy to you?  At least,
it would put in question the stability of the organization.

So I propose that the return address for all IDM forms read:

SEDS-USA
MIT, Room W20-445
77 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA  02139

That way, we can have the IDM program move around and be administered by
different chapters different years *without* listing a different address for
different years.  That solves that problem.

And this whole perceived problem of "not being able to get the information from
MIT in a timely manner" is, in this case, not properly considered.  The NOVA
comes out, at best, every other month.  Two months is plenty of time here for
us to sort through the mail, and forward out to whatever chapter is mailing the
NOVA, a list of new subscribers (IDM's) for the next issue.

Ad Astra!  Lisa Weigel
           US Co-Chairman
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:59:54 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Drew 501c3

>Do we have any money set aside to pay for any of this?  If "no", what
do you propose to do about this (ie any fundraising ideas?, what is your
timeline proposal for all this?)

No.  We'll fundraise with donations, ID membersh, chapter dues, etc -
the normal stuff.  The decision we need to make is how to incorporate
and then we'll know how much money we need.  Then we'll raise that amount.

Irwin is not responsible for raising the money, that's up to the board
to delegate/manage.

>If I am not mistaken there is an organization incorporated in D.C.
called "SEDS" which is SEDS Int'l.  Can we actually reincorporate with
501c3 , given the time and the existance of this "other" organization?


"SEDS is incoporated in DC.  SEDS-USA will be incoporated in MA, CA, or
wherever.  They are two separate organizations.  Therefore, the answer
is Yes :)

>Do you have a proposed filing date?

Whenever the board decides to decide, then we'll file =) Hopefully it will
be soon.

>Also, there is still the question of what
we do about our current violations of our bylaws.

I guess you mean the const - we make a few loop holes that say we can
fill the empty seats with "temporary" board members - they'll step down
if appropriate people run for the empty seats (that's the only thing
we're currently violating)

>ie we put on a couple of good conferences

National only gets dues and ID memberships(hopefully) - no conf money.
Although if we start the endowment we could well exceed the $10,000
limit.

>For a date to file for501c3, I propose March 1, 1993.  Shortly after the
conference.

It's as good as any date...

>Incidently, is there any cheap way that you are aware of
for SEDS Exec to fly out there?

No clue...you might want to check around...

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:59:52 EST
From:         alweigel@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: IDMs: Why Undertake Them?
              07 Nov 92 00:58:26 -0800. <9211070901.AA02964@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Jeff writes:

>Also, once our 501(c)3 status is re-established,
>what they pay in dues can be considered tax-deductible.

Well, that's only partly true.  What they pay in dues above
and beyond the subscrition rate to the SEDS NOVA is tax-deductible.
So SEDS chapter members who become ID members really can't take a tax-
deduction.  (Wow, is that confusing..."chapter members", "ID members",
"chapter members who are ID members", who are the "real members"?)
And non-students will only be able to take a $15 tax deduction based
on the current NOVA figures.

Just trying to keep y'all straight on these things.

Ad Astra!  Lisa Weigel
           US Co-Chairman

*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
"A small group of motivated people will get more done that a huge crowd
of inactive people ever will.  And I'll take the small group any day."
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:44:58 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: IDMs: Why Undertake Them?
              "alweigel@athena.mit.edu" at Nov 7, 92 3:09 pm

>With all that you *already* do, Jeff, I'm afraid that IDM's will take away
>the only sleep that you currently get (and from my perspective, it seems
 minimal
>at best already :) !

Actually, I got *nine* hours of sleep last night (because I didn't have to get
up early and go campaigning for George Brown, or go to a CSDC meeting, or go
take the GREs...).  Remember, though, there are five national board members
and many more active SEDS members within about an hour's drive of each other
in southern California.  I won't have to do all the work and I don't plan on
doing so!

Ad astra,

Jeff

PS: Helpful Hint: Always sleep for a multiple of 90 minutes.  It's much
easier getting up when you do (this is related to sleep cycles).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:53:15 PST
From:         "(Irwin Kenneth Horowitz)" <irwin%CitJulie.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: T-Con Sunday
              10-Nov-1992

Here are some additional topics we may consider at this weekend's t-con...

Board of Advisors
1993 SEDS-USA conference
board nominations and elections

Well, that's it for now...
                                        Irwin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:08:39 PST
From:         Deborah Elaine Smith <desmith@JARTHUR.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject:      Addition to SEDS-L Fund Raising Contest

	I would like to add that I'm willing to send the list of 10 top
contributers of the fund raising contest to the UK SEDS Magazine.  They
can publish the winners if they want.
	Lastly, just in case some of our subscribers who want to post ideas
don't know how to post on SEDS-L, just e-mail your message to

	SEDS-L%TAMVM1@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

							Ad Astra Per Ardua!
							Debbie Smith
							CSEDS President
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:22:02 -0800
From:         MRICHARDSON@JPLPDS.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject:      SEDS'93 - The SEDS International conf.

Hi all,

     I now have dates for the SEDS'93 Conference.  The Cranfield Institute
of Technology, August 1st through 7th 1993.

     Be there !

     Mark Richardson.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:08:39 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      Should Goldin stay?

Hey SEDSland,

In the spirit of getting board business off to sedsexec, how's this for
a conversation starter?

Should Goldin stay in the Clinton Administration?  He's trying (and tried)
to be apolitical, but he did show up at the Republican National Convention
as well as cut Gore's speech at Marshal Space Flight Center because
is was "too political".  On Nov 3rd he appointed 2-3 new people to high post
(posts) in the agency.  It seems like he wants to stay...

Goldin has certainly been good to the Pluto project out here at JPL as well
as streamlining the agency.  So for those reasons I'd like him to stay
(and that NASA administrator Goldin sounds a lot better than Former on the
CalSEDS billing if we get him =)

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:19:41 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      What's wrong with SEDS the way it is?

>Just a couple of *new* points on IDMs.

Actually, if you remember back (allll 5 years) these are old arguements.

I think SEDS should have more chapters and touch more people than it
currently does.  Wouldn't you like to have more people at MIT who
want to do NAtional work?  I know I would like to have more chapters
out here and more students *actively* doing spacey things.

IDM and the NOVA does not detract from activity!  The NOVA tells students
what other students interested in space are *actively* doing and usually
how they can do the same thing.  The "wimpy" magazine (grrrr...) will
soon hopefully improve to your liking.

> There are plenty of other
space magazines that would be much better to get (if receiving a magazine
is what thrills you)

No other magazine is published for students interested in space in the
US.  *That* is why it should exist and get to as many students as it can.

>Let's keep SEDS the way it should be - a small group of active people.
If we run into people who want to find out more about space, but don't
have the energy/drive to start a chapter, then we should suggest they
subscribe to "Space News" and keep trying to start that chapter!

Lisa, look at individual membership as a way to introduce SEDS to a
broader audience.  Not everyone gets inspired when we tell them -
get actively involved is student space activism - start a chapter!!
I would love more SEDS members supporting the organization, recognizing
the name, coming to our conferences, and educating themselves about not
only space issues, but how they can get involved.  This will help us
create a network of students interested in space (one of our goals)
It does not say that we should create a network of people who want to
build technical projects, organize conferences, etc.  These things are
great, but we need to find more people to fill board seats, to come to
conferences, to write for the NOVA!  Without reaching more students
through things like the NOVA, we won't find those people!

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:33:53 EST
From:         Bill Blum <blumb@SAGE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Crash...bzzz...Purdue SEDS under construction

Crash....bzzzzzzz.....(hammering noises)......

-----
(deep dramatic voice)
There's a school nestled in the Wabash valley in northern Indiana known
for a few things: engineering....agriculture....and the fact that the only
other school to have more graduates selected for space flight is the
Air Force Academy.  That school is Purdue University.  And, no, it has
NO connection with Frank Purdue chicken packers.
(dramatic voice off)
-----
Yes, everybody, a SEDS chapter is UNDER construction here at Purdue
University!!!!!!!!!

We're currently working on getting a constitution written that will
satisfy Purdue requirements and getting a few more faculty advisors
to commit to this project.
(I already HAVE the starter kit everybody, don't worry.)

This chapter is under construction.
Once the dust settles, we'll have a chapter.

Further updates to follow.

--
Bill Blum                       * Any technology distinguishable from
Purdue University               * magic is insufficiently advanced.
School of Nuclear Engineering   * --The Mario Cuomo Computer Virus--
blumb@sage.cc.purdue.edu        * It just refuses to run.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:25:14 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: It's Monday the 9th (
              "SEDS-L%TAMVM1.BITNET@vm.usc.edu" at Nov 9, 92 10:43 pm

Doug says:
> It's Monday the 9th and we want to know ewhere the Nova is....
> It was supposedly mailed 10 days ago.........
> We can't have these delays with IDM.

I suggest you check your mail, and if it's not there bug the mail services
department at UAH.  The NOVA *was* mailed and should have been postmarked
absolutely no later than Monday, 2 November.  We trust the NOVA will receive
a fast turnaround time (copying and mailing) at UAH - once it gets there...

Jeff

PS: The deadline for articles for the November/December issue is Monday, 30
November (three weeks!).  Suggested assigments for articles to come very soon.
First, though, I have a midterm to take...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:49:51 EST
Comments:     <Parser> E: RFC822 "local part" (username) containing a blank was
              encountered. These usernames are not presently supported.
From:         Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: more IDMs...
              07 Nov 92 09:33:46 -0700. <9211071636.AA07354@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Richard writes:

>John, how about writing things up in a definitive plan so we can all
>evaluate it at once?  If you don't want to, then at least explain why
>doing so is a bad idea (and stay off the !!!s ;).  Saying you've already
>explained everything isn't good enough...

I second that.  And third it.  And fourth it.  Anyone else want to fifth,
sixth, or seventh it?

Please - John, Irwin, Jeff - write up a set of operating procedures for IDMs.
Call it a "bible" if you will - a plan for going about this project that you
will stick to like glue.

Ad Astra!  Lisa Weigel
           US Co-Chairman
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
From: acb20@cus.cam.ac.uk (A.C. Baker)
Subject: UKSEDS email address
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Distribution: UK
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:34:34 GMT

Greetings, SEDSLand!

Well, its great to be able to get SEDSL on USEnet - makes
not having to read the junk mail so much easier!

Now, my plea: UKSEDS, please email me or post the UKSEDS
email contact address which *works* - the one in the UKSEDSmag
does not work!!!

Many thanks

AmandA Baker
Cambridge Space Soc.



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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:09:14 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: IDM Cost Breakdown
              "wingo%7977.span@fedex.msfc.nasa.gov" at Nov 7, 92 8:47 pm

Dennis states:
>From just a cursory view, adding the costs of a starter kit and 2-4 mailings
>will push the costs into the red and this is a legitimate concern that
>I think has not been addressed by the proposers. A business plan, showing
>how the venture will be handled, who will do the work and how much it will
>cost is essential for an adequate review of the subject.

No, I don't think the additional mailings will push us into the red.  Here's
a more detailed cost breakdown, based on copying and mailing numbers used
previously:

Basic Membership Package
	o 6 issues (one year) of the NOVA		$4.44
	o 2 renewal mailings (1 sheet each)
		@ $0.23 per mailing			$0.46
	TOTAL:						$4.90

Types of Membership:
	Student, SEDS chapter member:
		Basic package				$4.90
		TOTAL					$4.90
		Membership fee:				$5.00
		Profit:					$0.10

	Student, non-SEDS chapter member:
		Basic package				$4.90
		1 Starter Kit*				$0.77
			mailing @$0.50
			copying @$0.27
		2 additional mailings (3 sheets each)	$0.76
			mailing @$0.20
			copying @$0.18
		TOTAL:					$6.43
		Membership Fee:				$10.00
		Profit:					$3.57

	Non-Student:
		Basic Package				$4.90
		3 donation requests			$1.14
			mailing @$0.20
			copying @$0.18
		TOTAL:					$6.04
		Membership Fee:				$20.00
		Profit:					$13.96

* As John states in an earlier post, it's not necessary to send out starter
kits to these folks, although I think it might be a good step.  If you choose
to omit the starter kit mailing the total cost of these IDMs becomes $5.66 and
the profit becomes $4.34.

The non-SEDS student and non-student mailings I consider to be three
double-sided sheets.  For students this would be information and tips about
starting a SEDS chapter, for the non-students it would be information and
requests (pleas? :-) for donations.

This is also working on the assumption that the NOVA will have no advertising
for the indefinite future (not a given) or that we can convince some nice
company (hey, Hughes, you've got a $3G contact, let's talk... :-) to do the
printing gratis (and maybe even the mailing.)  These measures would reduce
the cost of publication and increase our profit margins.

As for delaying the vote a week, we've given everyone a chance to voice their
opinions, questions, comments, etc.  I think the most critical elements of
a business plan have already been posted.  Mail your votes to Lisa and me by
11:59pm PST Sunday the 8th.

Ad astra,

Jeff
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l