From: chall@vishnu.eco.twg.com ()
Subject: Re: Loren Finkelstein, "dictator," meet C.D. Hall & death penalty
Reply-To: chall@vishnu.eco.twg.com ()
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:47:59 GMT


In article <nyikos.724965455@milo.math.scarolina.edu>, nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
|> Newsgroups: talk.abortion
|> Path: eco.twg.com!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!opusc!usceast!nyikos
|> From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
|> Subject: Loren Finkelstein, "dictator," meet C.D. Hall & death penalty
|> Message-ID: <nyikos.724965455@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
|> Sender: usenet@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu (USENET News System)
|> Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
|> References: <1992Dec14.190626.5475@eco.twg.com> <14DEC92.21004172@vax.clarku.edu> <1992Dec15.185721.12223@eco.twg.com> <16DEC92.07023222@vax.clarku.edu> <1992Dec16.193427.29113@eco.twg.com> <16DEC92.21555384@vax.clarku.edu> <1992Dec17.180448.14467@eco.twg.com>
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|> Date: 21 Dec 92 19:17:35 GMT
|> Lines: 68
|> 
|> In <1992Dec17.180448.14467@eco.twg.com> chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) writes:
|> 
|> >In <16DEC92.21555384@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> >>In a previous article, chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) wrote:
|> >>>In <16DEC92.07023222@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> >>>>In a previous article, chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) wrote:
|> >>>>>In <14DEC92.21004172@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> 
|> >>>>>   1) What quality do human beings possess that makes it wrong to
|> >>>>>      kill them?
|> >>> 
|> >>>>There is no one quality that makes us "wrong to kill".  There is no one 
|> >>>>quality that makes us human beings.  It is a whole bunch of things, some of 
|> >>>>which are not quantifiable.  I just don't think that 
|> >>>>age/maturity/state-of-development is one of them.
|> >>> 
|> >>>I disagree with this, for reasons I've discussed in previous articles.
|> 
|> >>You disagree that there is not one quality?  Could you please tell us what 
|> >>that quality is, in your opinion.
|> 
|> >No, I agree with the "not one quality" part. I disagree with everything
|> >else you said. 
|> 
|> >There are two qualities:
|> >   - The ability to enjoy exercising "human rights" and to suffer
|> >     when these rights are infringed upon, OR, the potential
|> >     to have this ability.
|> >   - The ability to function from day-to-day without causing 
|> >     people to suffer by infringing upon their rights (whether 
|> >     intentionally or accidentally.)
|> 
|> A kleptomaniac would seem to fit the second description.  Also psychotics
|> and sociopaths of various sorts.
|> 
|> >[I don't feel like posting a long definition of "human rights".
|> >Just assume that it means more or less what you think it means.]
|> 
|> A kleptomaniac would probably think you and 'e are talking a different
|> language. 
|> 
|> >If something lacks the first quality, then it isn't inherently
|> >wrong to kill it. This would include non-human animals, as well
|> >as brain-dead accident victims. 
|> 
|> >If something lacks the second quality, then it isn't inherently
|> >wrong to kill it, provided there is _no_ _other_ _way_ to keep
|> >it from infringing upon people's rights. Examples would be unwanted 
|> >sperm cells, unwanted non-viable fetuses, some unwanted viable fetuses,
|> >and some criminals.
|> 
|> Well, now.  There are a number of ways of keeping criminals from doing
|> what they do without killing them.  I wonder what Charles Don Hall has
|> in mind here, and whom he would include in his category of people it
|> is not inherently wrong to kill.  After all, a kleptomaniac has lots
|> of opportunities to steal, even in a maximum-security prison.
|> 
|> Backing up a minute, I wonder when it was legally established that a 
|> fetus in infringing on its mother's rights.
|> 
|> >===========================================================
|> >Charles Don Hall, Licensed Philosopher  (chall@eco.twg.com)
|> >===========================================================
|> 
|> Licensed sophist is what I would call him.
|> 
|> Peter Nyikos
|> 
|> 
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