HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: tonality and modern music
Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:35:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1e9hloINN4c6@calvin.usc.edu> alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:
>I don't think it's primarily the dissonance, lack of conventional melody,
>or even the atonality that stands in most people's way - it's the fact
>that for many composers processes have become the expression instead of
>the means to expression.

If one tried to invent computer music from the ground up one learns that
directly trying to hone a timbre is a difficult business.  The timbres
of the nonelectronic world have the psychological resonance that they do
because they are the products of processes and we perceive them as such.
Composers who seek to explore entirely new material learn that the same
applies to the large scale structure of music:  trying to hone the new
music note by note leads to a grey mess.  Developing an awareness of
process allows the music organic growth and the listener a handle.  Of
course not all composers who work this way do it well!  The most famous
composers of our time are not necessarily the superlative composers of
our time, and the defender of modern music should not make the mistake
of overstating his or her case.  So many advocates of common practice
stake their claims essentially on the works of a mere two dozen practitioners
over the course of more than two centuries (see some of Schenker's
reactionary remarks, for example.)  It is not a level playing field.

David Feldman


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Subject: Hamelin's Alkan Solo Concerto: WHAT LABEL?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:20:49 EST

I can't find the CD label/# for Marc Hamelin's new recording of Alkan's
Concerto for Solo Piano. Can anyone email it to me, or at least post?
Thanks!

	Stephen Heller
	hellerS@moravian.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: St. John's Passion--Erato
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 06:31:31 GMT

In article <83971@ut-emx.uucp> jean@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan Powell) writes:
>I have recently become a humongous fan of the Johannes Passion by J.S.
>Bach.  I have heard a recording from 1979(?) on a label called Erato.  I
>have also heard an Archiv production of it.  I **much** prefer the Erato.
>Does anyone know if this disc is still in print?  I can't seem to find it
>anywhere.   Also, any reccomendations on some other quality recordings of
>it?

It is unwise to try to identify a version of a piece by record label, as many
labels have more than one.  You'll find a St. John's Passion on every major
label.  My vote goes for John Eliot Gardiner's version, of course.  That man
has yet to disappoint me with anything.  

>And in a slightly different vein, I know he has a St. Matthew's passion,
>and I have heard rumors of a St. Mark's--anyone know the scoop?

Bach is said to have written five passions.  The St. Matthew and St. John 
are the only two that we have intact.  There is a St. Luke, but it is more
or less agreed that Bach didn't actually write it

There was definitely a St. Mark, but Wilhelm Friedmann *lost* it along with
100 cantatas.  I could kill him.

About the fifth passion we know nothing.  But hey, maybe it'll turn up in
Pittsburgh the way that Buxtehude thing did a few years ago. :-)


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger)
Subject: Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas)
Organization: Yale University, Intelligent Sensors Lab, Elect. Eng.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:23:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.195409.9578@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:

>Since "euphonium" is an English word made up of a Greek root + and English 
>ending (according to my Webster's), rather than a foreign import like datum/a,
>the plural is euphoniums.  I hope that everyone can now rest at ease for the 
>remainder of the day.

I still think that 'euphonia' is more euphemistic.  By the way,
what the plural of 'tuba'?  'Tubae'?

Jim
--
James Szinger                        jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu

"He was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad."
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Schirmer's (was Re: Looking for a source for composer prints)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:40:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.031147.13994@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.200800.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>>>Anyone know a good source for prints of composer portraits?  I'm looking for
>>> I bet Schirmer's has them, too.

>>To what are you referring when you say "Schirmer's"?

>Schirmer's is a music vendor in New York City.  I'm not sure if they are
>(still) connected in any meaningful way to G. Schirmer & Co., but I suspect
>they still have ties.

Indeed -- especially the kind with a repeating pattern of french horns!

8-)  [can't be too careful around here...]
Roger
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Date: 23 Nov 1992 13:07:04 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Stephen Smoliar (smoliar@whitehead.iss.nus.sg) wrote:
: Are you saying you dislike this work because Cage said he hated the sound of
: the harpsichord?  

No, I said that my opinion of Cage went down.

: How much time did you put into LISTENING to the performance?

I listened to it once a week in an OPEN frame of mind for about eight
months. I also listened to a lot of other aleoratic and systematic music 
to try to break out of a habit I had got into of listening to nothing
but Delius, Satie, Lygeti and Panufnik. In the end I broke out after a
RVW binge.

: Did you REALLY feel that Cage used this composition to vent that hatred? 

No, certainly not. I simply found it odd that a man who perceive the
beauty (as I most certainly do myself) of all the sounds in nature,
could fail to appreciate what is for me one of the nicest. Imagine a
sonata for conch and hpschd. I feel that he almost accepted the
commission under false pretenses. This is an irrational, but certainly not
Yoderian, response.

: Don't let what you read distort what you hear!

Surely unless you read the glosses to Mr Cage's works, and listen to the
works, you will know what is going on. If you don't, and are presented
with an enigma, the reading the glosses will clear things up. If the
ambiguity is the desired result, when then, let's burn Cage's writings.
 
[HEY haus der luge THIS IS A JOKE.]
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cage's 4'33"
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:56:35 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Nov21.020421.15667@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.212805.29403@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com
>(Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>>
>>I saw a video of a live performance of this piece. I think it was David
>>Tudor who performed it, but I'm not sure. In any event, he raised and
>>lowered the lid as you describe, but he also used a stop or pocket watch,
>>which he picked up and looked at periodically. 
>>
>As I recall, Peter Greenaway's documentary includes excerpt from a performance
>which Cage gave at the entrance to Harvard Square station.  He had a piano set
>up in front of the newsstand there, and I seem to recall that he had a stopwatch
>sitting on the piano.

The raising/lowering of the lid to the keys is indeed Tudor's
way of performing 4'33" although others have followed his lead
on that.  [source: Ellsworth Snyder, first person to do a doctoral
dissertation on Cage]
  The stopwatch would not surprise me in either case, as neither
performer had any real reason to avoid using it.
  An additional note regarding time-keeping technology, my
understanding is that computer monitors were used backstage in
"Europeras" to communicate the progress of the score to the
performers and technicians, making it the world's first
"database opera."  [source: Andrew Culver, who assisted Cage at
that time]


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Tuba
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:27:38 GMT

In article <Bxv3uC.JBv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:
>Some wierdo composer wrote a Tuba concerto. Anybody know
>who he was and what he called it.

Ralph Vaughan Williams, Concerto for Tuba and Orchestra in F minor
Gunther Schuller, Capriccio for Tuba and Orchestra

Both of these are available on the record "Music for the Underdogs of the
orchestra", GM 2004. The Vaughan Williams piece was published as a score
by Oxford U press also (although God knows whether its still in print).

Plus, Walter Ross wrote a concerto for tuba and band, published by 
Boosey & Hawkes......

r


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: c60a-lf@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Hsu)
Subject: Re: English Madrigals
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:38:20 GMT

>Incidentally, the King's Singers' 25th Anniversary celebrations
>are at hand this coming year, culminating in a special festival
>on (if memory serves me well) May 2 in AnnArbor, Michigan.
>That will also mark the retirement of the two remaining original
>members, Simon and Alistair.
>

	Where did you get all these information about the King's Singers?
Being a great fan of this vocal group, I really disappointed by this news.
Simon and Alistair are such great singers.... :(  Have you any idea who
will replace Simon and Alistair?

Paul.
.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:30:41 GMT


well, 4'3" will be performed here at Uva this wednesday, so ill let
you know what it was like this time. certainly a favorite cage piece....

r

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Looking for a source for composer prints
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:13:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.031018.13858@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.160009.910@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>>>Anyone know a good source for prints of composer portraits?  I'm looking for
>>>prints such as the standard portrait of Bach (the one where's holding a sheet
>>>of music paper), 

>>The Hausmann Portrait.  btw, there's a canon on the sheet of paper.

[Make that Haussmann.  Sorry, Maddi!]

>I've never had an accurate enough rendering of it from which I could read
>the score.

Try Mendel and David, _The Bach Reader_ (Norton), p.177 for Mizler's
reprint of the canon.  the cover of the paperback revised edn. has
the portrait pretty clearly reproduced.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: humming Stockhausen
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:22:14 GMT

Hey, I hum Stockhausen all the time. Listen to "Tierkreis" some 
time--those tunes are worse to get out of our head than even Country 
Garden!

I also happen to think that Gesang der Junglinge is one of the giant 
works of Western music. I often have that running through my head. It 
beats accounting classes.

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Brahms violin concerto (summary)
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:12:45 GMT

Here is a summary of opinions expressed on the Brahms violin concerto
performances.  I include only positive opinions. Trashed were: 
Perlman/Giulini, Salerno-Sonnenberg, Mutter-Karajan, Nigel (Kennedy?).
Especially praised were: Ginette Neveu, Heifetz, Grumiaux.

Which brings a question: is there any DDD version (aside from the 
spurious Neveu recording) that measures up to these giants? This is
for those of us who came to age in the CD age, and haven't the fervor
to sift through the noise of a re-mastered 78 for that divine sound.

Which brings another question: why do netters prefer the older versions?
Are there no good violinists around anymore, or is there some built-in
bias? For example, were those the first versions you heard?


	Ginette Neveu:
tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)

	Heifetz/Reiner (Heifetz cadenza):
vnguyen@husc11.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen)
ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
dwong@chopsuey.pico (David G. Wong - VIP user)

	Grumiaux/Van Beinum:
ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu Alak Chakravorty.         

	Grumiaux/C. Davis (Joachim cadenza):
diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
henken@ocf.berkeley.edu (Matthew J. Henken)

	Krebbers/Haitink:
chieu@pta.pyramid.com.au (Chieu Tran)
ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu Alak Chakravorty.         

	Isaac Stern/Beecham:
ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu Alak Chakravorty.         

	Menuhin/Furtwangler (Kreisler cadenza):
ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)

	Oistrakh/Konwitschy:
f88-aca@nada.kth.se (Andreas Carlsson)


-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Brahms Violin Concerto
Organization: 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:17:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.162930.27273@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Jim Hahn <jhahn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu> writes:
> [ several references to performances of the Brahms Violin Concerto by
>   Stern, Perlman, Salerno Sonnenberg, Mutter, Krebbers, and Heifetz
>   omitted ]
>   
> Having heard all the above with the exception of Krebbers, I would say the
> performance by Szeryng is still my favorite. Wonderfully heartfelt and 
> technically exquisite. For what it's worth, I believe it won the Grand
> Prix
> du Disque when it was first released (can't remember the year).
> 
> Jim Hahn

There are two performances by Szeryng that I know of. If you are talking
about the 1959 RCA version with Monteux and the LSO, then I agree with you 
- this is indeed a fabulous performance : lyrical, passionate, heartfelt - 
though the sound is not very good even compared to other recordings of the 
same period. This is available (at least was available 2 years ago) on a RCA 
Victor release coupled with Ormandy conducting the Alto-Rhapsody and the Haydn
Variations.
 I don't like quite as much Szeryng's later version with Haitink and the 
Concertgebouw made around 1974 (and this is available on CD at full price on
Philips). While Szeryng and the orchestra both play with undoubted authority
and there are moments of great beauty, I feel that the tension flags in parts
and the whole thing lacks a unifying thrust, accentuated by the (comparatively)
slow tempos taken by Szeryng in the first and third movements. Just MHO.
							
							Alak Chakravorty.
From: 910394f@ace.acadiau.ca (JAMES LEON FALCONE)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Tuba
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:14:20 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <Bxv3uC.JBv@dcs.ed.ac.uk> la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton) writes:
>Path: dragon.acadiau.ca!nstn.ns.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!la
>From: la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton)
>Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
>Subject: Tuba
>Message-ID: <Bxv3uC.JBv@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
>Date: 17 Nov 92 13:23:00 GMT
>Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin)
>Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh
>Lines: 13
>Some wierdo composer wrote a Tuba concerto. Anybody know
>who he was and what he called it.
>(Anyone says "tubby the tuba" and I scream OK)
>-- 
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|                 |I do not know what I may appear to the world, but |
>| Lovely Louie    |to myself I seem to have been only like a small   |
>| la@dcs.ed.ac.uk |boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself|
>|                 |in now and then finding a smoother pebbly or a    |
>|                 |prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great    |
>|                 |ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.    |
>|                 |           SIR ISAAC NEWTON                       |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hey, what is so weird about a Tuba concerto. Its an instrument to y'know.
(Well maybe an instrument with a bit of plumbing thrown in.
From: la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tuba
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:23:00 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

Some wierdo composer wrote a Tuba concerto. Anybody know
who he was and what he called it.
(Anyone says "tubby the tuba" and I scream OK)
-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                 |I do not know what I may appear to the world, but |
| Lovely Louie    |to myself I seem to have been only like a small   |
| la@dcs.ed.ac.uk |boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself|
|                 |in now and then finding a smoother pebbly or a    |
|                 |prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great    |
|                 |ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.    |
|                 |           SIR ISAAC NEWTON                       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: moyat@imag.fr
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:56:03 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France

In article <12NOV199208115771@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:

>Maybe we should vote on it, and have someone tally the votes for the different
>Rings.  And also votes for the different singers/parts.  Can someone do this?

I agree and I'm very interessed in the result...
So : you can send me your vote according to the following scheme:

	My favorite recordings:
		1- ...
		2- ...
			etc...
	My favorite singers:
		As ... I prefer ...
		As ... I prefer ...
			etc ...

and if it means something you can add this:

	Poorest recording: ...
	Worst singers: ...

For example:
	My favorite recordings:
		1- Solti's one
		2- Boehm's one
			
	My favorite singers:
		As Brunnehilde I prefer Birgit Nilsson (1) H. Berhens (2)
		As Wotan I prefer Hans Hotter (1) R. Hale (2) J. Morris (3)
		As Hagen I prefer G. Frick

My mail address: 
	moyat@ensisun.imag.fr


That's one point !
Then I can precise one thing:

In arcticle <1992NOV10.154432.23263@cs.tu-berlin.de> Herbster@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de
(Christoph Herbster) writes:

> ...a great Wotan is Robert Hale (US)...

One can hear him on CDV (munich, directed by W. Sawalish) and Decca is planning
the recording of new Ring (propably only 'Die Walkure' first...) with R. Hale as
Wotan (contract is said to be already signed) and Anne Evans as Brunnehilde.


------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Lionel Moyat          | e-mail: moyat@ensisun.imag.fr |
| DEA informatique      |                               |
| IMAG/UFR              |                               |
+-----------------------+-------------------------------+
.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ext@wam.umd.edu (Eugene Zhu Xia)
Subject: Re: Music to quiet down...
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:03:04 GMT


In article <3344@voodoo.UUCP>, das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
|> At work these days, I seem to be in a constant state of stress, and have
|> been thinking that some soothing music might help greatly.  I love classical
|> music, but don't have a whole lot of exposure to it.  I would greatly
|> appreciate recommendations for music that has a calming effect.
|> 
|> Thank you,
|> 

I agree with another noter who said that much of the classical music is
about the building and releasing of tension (of course, overly simplified).
To those of us who take this stuff seriously, we tend to concentrate on
the ones that give us deep emotional experiences, so in that sense most
of us here are probably unqualified to recommend :-).  

One thing I would say is that never go with the "quiet music" (Adagio for 
String, or Palestrina's stuff for example) because that stuff (the good 
ones) are usually too intense.  So for relaxation, I would probably go 
with the opposite style.  Anyway, here is my 2c's worth:

	Bach's Ochestral's Suites
	Almost everything Telemann wrote.
	Most of Vivaldi's stuff.  

Eugene
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Tuba concerto
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:08:24 GMT

Didn't Gordon Jacobs write a Tuba Concerto? Also can't forget Gerard 
Hoffnung!!!

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario