HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Re: No, I didn't leave myself logged in...
Date: 29 Sep 1992 14:27:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jnomina@andy.bgsu.edu (A.P.K.) says:

>vax1::rtiger@vax1.umkc.edu (Roy Bengal Tiger) writes:
>> 
>> I speant close to a year living in Toledo, and have driven along the shores
>> of all the lakes. I moved to the midwest primarily because I couldn't stand 
>> the smell of oil, smokestack emissions, and rotting fish.
>
>Hmm... where AT in Toledo?  (Smokestack emissions, oil, etc...)  Didn't
>you ever get away from the city and go anywhere really decent?  Like
>maybe Crane Creek State Park even?  DON'T say Portside!  That doesn't
>count as decent.  And about rotting fish smell... gee, I've been to
>a lot of places on the Atlantic, North Sea (VERY bad) and various lakes
>and bays and.... and sorry, but everywhere I've been has that wonderful
>'rotting fish' smell at times, no matter where you go around water.
>Sure, it's stronger at different times and places, but it's still there, no
>matter where you may go around real bodies of water around the world
>(Except maybe the Carribean, never been there, or the Pacific, so
>I can't say for sure about THOSE places, but I'm sure that someone here
>can...)  

Well, I've been to Barbados and the harbor in town DID have dead, rotting
fish.  Plus, the beach at the hotel we stayed at (a very nice hotel) was
close to an oil refinery or storage facility so there was a slight aroma of
petroleum when the wind blew in the right (wrong?) direction. Also the 
nightlife in Barbados sucked big time, overall I've had more fun at
Put-In-Bay.


The Great Lakes ARE great (unless you're one of those
>California dudes who only judges a body of water by its particular
>wave height so that you might surf...)

They sure are! This guy ROY sounds like he has sour grapes about something.


-- 
Pete Babic  -  pab@po.cwru.edu          ///
I'd rather be on a boat or a           ///  /\
roller coaster. Member of A.C.E  \\\  ///  /--\MIGA  
(American Coaster Enthusiasts)    \\\/// Humpty Dumpty was pushed!
From: v198kb2l@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Steve Keller)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Re: Travelling to Cleveland
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bvo07F.C1s@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v198kb2l@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Steve Keller) writes...
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: spencer@ais.org (Spencer PriceNash)
Subject: Re: Where are the bear in the UP?
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: mi 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:04:28 GMT

In article <BvBFzn.ALs@ais.org> alb@ais.org (Alan Brushaber) writes:
>Greetings,
>
>  Many years ago (~30:) I remember waiting at dusk at a 'garbage
>dump' for bear to come out to feed in Newberry in the UP. Are
>there some good spots in the UP to see bear these days - hopefully
>someplace a little nicer maybe?

Close: try Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore.  You probably don't want
to do that, though.  It might be a little harder there, but it's worth
it.  What was probably a porcupine ate some of the trim off my car
while I was backpacking up there.  I don't suggest putting honey on
your car and waiting around, but...

I met a canoe camper who had a bear chase him and his spouse across
three islands because it liked what was in his spouse's daypack.  It
had stuff like credit cards, some ablutionary items, you know, that
kind of stuff.  They finally drove it away by pelting it with
boulders.  It seemed to be disgusted with the game and just swam away.


>Al - alb@ais.org
-- 
spencer@ais.org   spencer%spencer@ais.org   clif.ypsi.mi.us!spencer!spencer
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Re: Address needed
Date: 30 Sep 1992 17:46:09 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <SUSAN.92Sep28180255@wimpie.noaapmel.gov> susan@noaapmel.gov (Susan Collicott) writes:
>(They tried to get me to accept a cheap substitute - kahona or kahuna or
>something like that.  But it didn't have horseradish in it, so no go for me!)

   Probably Kaukauna, which is a city in central Wisconsin which produces
(icky) cheese spreads.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
From: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
Subject: Re: ex-Michigander finds GL solace at Lake Erie
Date: 29 Sep 1992 14:50:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) says:

>
>
>A story: ex-Michigander visits Lake Erie 
>
 <A very well done story deleted>
 
>  When I got home, I again looked at our Ohio atlas. Unfortunately, it seems
>that the only other state park with a decent (at least a mile long of sand)
>beach is Geneva State Park, which is even further east and north than
>Headlands Beach State Park. It seems that there's a lot of activity around
>Put-in-Bay, but from reading the atlas, it looks like it's mainly marina
>and concrete /breakwater kind of stuff, not sandy beaches. Does anyone
>out there have any suggestions on where to go in Ohio for a beach on
>Erie? 

The nicest Lake Erie beaches are on the western part of the lake. Your atlas
should list some of the State Parks around the Marblehead area. If you have
a boat there is a very nice sand bar sticking out into Sandusky Bay by 
Johnson's Island. Cedar Point amusement park also has a very nice beach, more
of a resort atmosphere though with hotels, swimming pools, etc then a place
to have a picnic. It is VERY nice though. The sand on the western basin is
real sand, probably like what your used to from Lake Michigan. Put-In-Bay has
no real beach, but it is a fun place with alot of entertainment.


-- 
Pete Babic  -  pab@po.cwru.edu          ///
I'd rather be on a boat or a           ///  /\
roller coaster. Member of A.C.E  \\\  ///  /--\MIGA  
(American Coaster Enthusiasts)    \\\/// Humpty Dumpty was pushed!
Newsgroups: alt.great-lakes
From: angel@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Angel)
Subject: Great Lakes Triangle
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:32:40 GMT


My father-in-law was watching some cable show that was talking about
the Bermuda Triangle.  Then they mentioned the same phenomena was 
happening in the "Great Lakes Triangle".  Has anybody heard of this
before?  I mean I knew that ships have gone down without a trace
but I didn't know there was such a folklore related to the region.

Jim
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Forced Fatherhood Executive Summary
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:12:44 GMT
Organization: HP Western Response Center

In alt.dads-rights, bglazier@buffalo.asd.sgi.com (Bill Glazier) writes:

> You must also believe that a man should have the right to NOT support a child
> he fathered, if he chooses not to be a Father.  

Yup. Women have a choice and so should men.

> If so, what about the case where the man lied to the woman about birth 
> control.  "Trust me, babe, you won't get preganant - I'll pull out just 
> become I come".  

When (if) men lie about contraception, women still have a choice. Men don't
have a second chance now. We should have a choice too, if for no other 
reasons than birth control isn't perfect and the world is over-populated.

> Men are the guilty party 9 out of 10 times.  

I submit that if women have the last choice, women are more responsible for
bringing children into the world. Currently, men are held hostage to the
(un)reliability of birth control. Women have more choices. 

> But anyone who assumes everyone around them is acting intelligently
> deserves the unfortunate consequences.

I submit that public policy should protect both sexes. I'm pro-choice for 
both men and women. Currently, only women have an out if they or their partner
makes a mistake; or if the birth control just fails.

> And women are forced to deal with their own stupidity by devoting 18 years of
> their life to caring for the child.  That's much more than 25% of your salary
> is worth, my friend.

Neither sex needs to be punished for failed birth control. Women already
have a choice and men should have a choice too.

> Some men are responsible - some aren't. 

Responsible men are forced into fatherhood too. Take the case of Frank S. v.
Pamela P. Pamela admitted in court that she lied about using birth control.
Pamela's deception was the reason Frank became a father. It turns out Frank
was extraordinarily responsible. Frank S. is none other that Frank Serpico,
who blew the whistle on corruption in New York. He wrote a book about it.
His is a classic case of a responsible guy who was forced into fatherhood.
There are other cases. I know a guy who didn't even have intercourse with
the woman, and he caught her inseminating herself with his semen in the 
bathroom! Fraud, deception or birth control failure, men need the right to 
a choice.
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,alt.child-support,soc.couples,soc.men
From: titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Eric Titmas)
Subject: Re: What a Problem!!!
Organization: SPS
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:30:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.141858.1602@panix.com>, eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:

|> Had you bothered to read what I wrote about the various degrees of
|> scrutiny, you would know that this comes under the "strict scrutiny"
|> rubric by virtue of the effect on a core constitutional right.

Could someone please distinguish "core constitutional rights" from
other constitutional rights.  

I recall David Souter in his confirmation hearings saying he was
struggling with the idea that some rights have greater protection than
other rights.
-- 
Eric Titmas      Motorola ASIC       titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com               

It is impossible to take in more money than Congress can spend.  - Thomas Sowell
Xref: sparky alt.dads-rights:2385 soc.men:16970
From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Followup-To: alt.dads-rights
Organization: Nefolet shel nemushot (Fallout of Wimps)

In article <1992Sep27.182222.4017@mr.med.ge.com> 
larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr) writes:

>health issues, there is less left for general medicine. Men have
>a life expectancy that is seven years less than women. So why is
>so much more money spent on women's health?

Because there are about 10% more women voters.
From: markr@sound.cts.com (Mark B. Reinhold)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Forced Fatherhood Executive Summary
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:24:11 GMT
Organization: SDCT 1-619-461-3415

> The question I have, does the argument hold in reverse.  If a woman has
> made it clear that she doesn't want a child and ... etc.  Does the man
> get to have the child?  Best to wait till after  marriage before sex,
> could save a lot of problems, (I speak from experience)!
> 
> Larry Ferreira

Wait until after marriage could save a lot of problems. I don't think
so. Divorce can happen, then if you happen to want to be the father, the
ex-wife can make allmost impossible.

I guess maybe this is what makes life so much fun.
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,soc.men
From: larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr)
Subject: The Politics Of Appeasement
Followup-To: alt.dads-rights
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 18:22:22 GMT


                    The Politics Of Appeasement

                          Larry Landwehr
                          Copyright 1992


Last week the senate voted 89-4 to cut $200 million from military
projects and spend $185 million of it on breast cancer research.
The senate is involved with feminist issues legislation including
family leave, stalking, violence against women, abortion rights,
and higher penalties for job related sex discrimination.

Congress is going out with a bang. It is out doing itself by
indulging in a last minute orgy of self flagellation and
appeasement.

Congress, especially the congresses of the last twenty years, has
a long record of buying votes with pork barrel legislation. But
now it is scared. The members of congress sense a growing anger
across the country directed at them. Unfortunately, they are still
listening to the same people who got them in this fix. The special
interest groups have managed to convince Congress that the people
are angry because Congress hasn't done enough for the special
interest groups!

People are angry at congress because Congress has sold the people
out. People are angry because Congress has sacrificed the principle
of the greatest good for the greatest number. Instead of representing
the people who elected them, Congress has sold it's soul.

In the past, members of Congress would engage in the fine art of
pork barrelling by trying to get public money directed to their
constituents. Ever wonder why the space program fires rockets from
Florida and has a major communications outpost in Texas? That was
pork barrel. Ever wonder why so many military posts are
concentrated in so few states? More pork barrel.

In the old pork barrel legislation some people benefited more than
others, but space program facilities and military posts had to be
built somewhere. Everyone in the country benefited at least
indirectly.

In the new form of pork barrelling, things have been twisted. Now
special interest groups are not constituents. They are often
national groups with access to the national media. Now legislation
is passed that benefits the members of the special interest groups
- at the expense of other groups. When money is spent on women's
health issues, there is less left for general medicine. Men have
a life expectancy that is seven years less than women. So why is
so much more money spent on women's health?

Politicians talk about divisiveness in this country. Well they
caused it. The general public is fed up with paying for special
interest programs. They can tell when they are being used. The
media shoves it in their faces every day with more calls for new
programs.

When are the politicians of this country going to wake up? When are
they going to quit plundering the public treasury? When are they
going to quit pandering to special interest groups?

Only when the people demand it.
From: bglazier@buffalo.asd.sgi.com (Bill Glazier)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Forced Fatherhood Executive Summary
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:01:41 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Perhaps a foolish question.  If the Forced Father's in your survey didn't
trust these women enough to want to raise a child with them, why would they then trust statements made in the heat of passion about birth control or fertility 
or desire to have a child????????

I am not a radical right winger. I just wonder why so many men demand to be protected from their own stupidity.  It's like saying because my
wife cooked me all this food, I got fat.  I am sueing her for damages because
my life is irreparably harmed because I am fat.  She told me I wouldn't get fat 
if I ate her food. Bitch!!!!! 

The facts are that by an overwhelming percentage, men force unwanted sex on
women more often than women force it on men.  Men can always choose to use birth
control, and they should, or they deserve the consequences.  

Control your hormones, and you control your destiny.  Be smart.  Wash your hands
before you eat, and you won't get ill.  Don't drink from bottles labeled
'poison'.  Wear a condom unless you want to make a baby.

Don't say - gee, this is my only mistake, and I'll pay the rest of my life.  
If you get drunk and kill someone in a car accident, you'll pay just the same.
Human life has some value in our society.  

Fuck everybody you can.  Just use your brain as well as your dick.  And live
up to your mistakes, big and small.
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Pro Male Legislation
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:28:11 GMT
Organization: HP Western Response Center

California Senator Charles Calderone 
and Mr. Kelly Jensen are drafting pro-
male legislation. Kelly (and perhaps 
Senator Calderone) will be in San Jose
soon to meet with interested folks. 
This is a chance to change the system.

Who:    Mr. Kelly Jensen / 
	Senator Charles Calderone
        916 327 8315
What:   Pro-male legislation
Where:  Trinity Episcopal Church
        at 2nd and St. John
	San Jose, CA
When:   7 pm

Here's what you can do to help:

	1.) Bring interested women	
	2.) Make or bring a mailing list
	3.) Cooperate toward a consensus
	4.) Prepare to legislate in January
 
Xref: sparky alt.dads-rights:2386 soc.men:16980
From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Politics Of Appeasement
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:51:18 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr) writes:

> Last week the senate voted 89-4 to cut $200 million from military
> projects and spend $185 million of it on breast cancer research.
> The senate is involved with feminist issues legislation including
> family leave, stalking, violence against women, abortion rights,
> and higher penalties for job related sex discrimination.
> [...]
> In the new form of pork barrelling, things have been twisted. Now
> special interest groups are not constituents. They are often
> national groups with access to the national media. Now legislation
> is passed that benefits the members of the special interest groups
> - at the expense of other groups. When money is spent on women's
> health issues, there is less left for general medicine. Men have
> a life expectancy that is seven years less than women. So why is
> so much more money spent on women's health?
> [...]
> Only when the people demand it.

The last statement holds more truth than one might know.

America has gotten the government it deserves. It has gotten it because
the individual voter has, for one reason or another, abandoned their
posts as gatekeepers. What we abandoned it TO was special interest. The
politicians aren't stupid. They've recognized that campaigning to a deaf
people has brought no results, so they have taken the money of the spec-
ial interest groups, used it for advertising blitzes, and caused the
lacksadaisical voter to remember only their name as they punch their votes 
in a state of stupor.

We have come to semi-consciousness as that which triggers our synapses
nags at us the oft-ignored question "What's Wrong With This Picture?"
Our response is, invariably, "The Government Is Wrong." We're right, of
course. But we ignore WHY the government has gone wrong.

Balance is the keyword of democracy. Without it, factionalism prevails
and a lack of parity becomes commonplace. When that happens, we see what
it is that we see now; demands for term limits, interest in dark-horse
candidates and other things which hold the empty promise of salvation.

The truth is, the 'salvation' which people are beginning to hope for is,
and has been, in their power to provide themselves. It isn't and never
will be the gift of candidate for office.

A few people will never be able to make change. The country is large and
has diverse interests. The balance will only prevail if all of us part-
icipate. It's easy to point a finger and cry "Look What They Did!" But
it might be more accurate to look in a mirror and cry "Look What We Let
Them Do."

Select a person whose actions, not words, most closely typifies your
beliefs, and then participate. Vote intelligently.

While you still can.

--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA 
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Subject: Re: Jurisdiction Survey
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:15:53 GMT

In article <10930010@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
>
>
>                WHICH STATES HAVE THE LOWEST AND HIGHEST
>                   CHILD SUPPORT FOR PATERNITY SUITS?
>
>Just send me email with two pieces of info:
>
>	1.) The name of the state 
>
>	2.) The percentage of after tax income that is awarded for 
>	child support for children born out of wedlock
>
>For example, my award was in California, which forces men to pay about 23% of 
>our after tax income for one child.
>
>All entries will be anonymous, and I'll post a summary of the responses by
>state. IMHO it will be interesting to see which jurisdictions extort the
>most and least money from men forced into fatherhood.
>
>                        ENTER THE SURVEY NOW!	

Ohio - income shares by table - not by percentages.

The percentages range based on income - with a high for one child of
20.3% for a combined income couple making less than $10k per year to a
low of 10% for up to $120k per year.  The peak amount is the $120k
amount, so fathers making millions only have to pay $12k per year unless
a judge wants to make him give more.

These amounts roughly double for three children, but for two children
increase an additional 65 - 70%.

Basically, one child is worth 20% of gross income, the second child is
worth 12%, the third is worth 8% and so on.  The seventh child is worth
no additional money over the sixth - the seventh and all subsequent
children are "free."

The more money you make, the less the children are acknowledged as being
worth a given percentage of that income.  The more children you have,
the less each subsequent one is worth.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Forced Fatherhood Executive Summary
Date: 26 Sep 92 01:00:39 GMT
Organization: HP Western Response Center


                            Executive Summary of
                             Forced Fatherhood


	It seems that Fatherhood is forced upon thousands of U. S. men 
	each year. These men typically don't like to talk about it, 
	disagreed with their lovers about abortion and adoption, and
	were sued for child support. The U. S. courts aren't protecting
	men from birth control fraud.
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.dads-rights
Subject: Forced Fatherhood Law
Date: 26 Sep 92 00:51:33 GMT
Organization: HP Western Response Center


                            Forced Fatherhood
                                The Law


	U.S. court precedents force men to be fathers. The N.Y. case of
	Frank S. v. Pamela is such a case. Pamela admitted to lying
	to Frank about using birth control. The Appeals court still made
	him pay child support. Even when he pointed out that fraud was
	committed, the court made him pay.