From: saleham@cauchy.mcs.clarkson.edu (Anwar M. Saleh)
Subject: Re: Apoligy and Clarification
Reply-To: saleham@cauchy.mcs.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:40:15 GMT


 faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:

>RELIGION:
>
>I will go on record saying that all religions are created by Men not Gods. There is no
>>evidence that any founder of any religion had any communications with a god whether he
>exists or not. If Muslims can claim that the prophet Muhammed was given the teaching of
>Islam from god, then some one should answer the following questions:
>
>1. Is this god the same god that promised the middle east to the sons of Isreal. The
>same god that the Isreals' killed so many people in his name according to the Tora, and
>promised them the whole middle east. If this is the case why are we fighting, we should
>drop all arms and let them take over. I suppose the Palestinians have no right to a
>homeland.

 You may have two persons attending the same lecture and come out with different
 interpretations. Is it hard for you to understand that the lecturer was the same?

>2. Is this the same god that Jesus Christ tells us that a new world willl come about
>and will have a fresh start with no pains, and the good life. The same god that
>millions of people have died in his name and in world wars. The same gods that
>different sects are killing each other for in the UK.
>

 Same as above.

>3. Is this god is the same god that created Islam and in his name over a million
>Iraqis' and Iranians' died in the 80s'. The same god that the money that was spent on
>arms in that war would have hired half of china to fight Isreal. The same god that that
>Muslim Sunnis and Sh'its are currently fighting over.

 The same way the the Ba'thists in Iraq and Syria are the most fierce enemies.
 The same reason why the communists in former USSR and China where enemies and
 so on. You find the reason in:
  
 "watholmu tha we alqurbaa ashaddu marraratun" 

>CHRISTIANITY AND WESTERN POWERS
>
>I grew up in Syria, I lived in an area that was predominately christians and Alawites.
>My knowledge of the mistreatment of Muslims toward christians and alawites is primarily
>from people like my father and his generation. According to them there was a time when
>and Afandy would come and take your goat and sleep with your wife and you couldn't do any
>thing. Yes the Afandys' were Muslims, and the treatment was harsher towards the
>Alawites. Arabic speaking christians are not aligned with the west, in fact if it
 
 There are criminals all over the world. Now, do you say that Christians are killers
 because of what we see in the subways of NYC and the Capital of the free World
 and all of the major cities. Why you call a criminal who happen to be Moslem by
 Moslem, but others simply criminals. There is no civilization had as much jails
 and murderers as the West (or the USA), the majority of those criminals are
 Christians. I myself do not call them Christians. You call the criminals among
 the Moslems by Moslems.
 
>wasn't for the Lebanese christians the arabic language would have been extincted by the
>Turks. They discovered the plot and aroused people against that. The Lebanese
>Christians and in particular Antone S'aadi founded the Syrian National Movement to
>unify the greater syria and he died for it by the French. This unification would take
>place under a democratic system where all religions are respected.
>
 
  No one denies their contributions.
 
>The western powers are not meddling in the area's affairs because of the few million
>christians that are living in the middle east. Infact, when Lebanon was created and
>given statehood status, they forced the constitution to have a christian president,
>Muslim prime minister etc., not because they loved the christians, rather to create an
>environment of struggle and chaos. The western powers are there because of the
>following reasons:
>
>1. OIL, OIL, and more OIL.
>2. Geographic location.
>3. Isreal.
>
 
  I think Israel is there for the first two reasons. The west wanted a strong power
  in the region to keep it away from unity. They had two options, Iran and Israel.
  Iran for being non-Arab and Shi'a and israel for being non-Arab and non-Moslems.
  
>UNIFICATION
>
>We can talk about unification under Islam or any religion until the 25th century and
>nothing will happen. Islam tried to unify the area and faild. I have stated earlier
>that any unification should not take place under any religious principles. In my
>opinion Islam failed to unify the people because of its rigidity, Islam unlike other
 
 I believe in secular state (but not following the example of Turkey).
 The advocates of one Moslem state accuse the Baath of failing to unite the Arabs.
 
>religions which are only teachings as codes of ethics, Islam contains sets of laws that
>are very difficult to have every one subscribe to. Indeed I find Islam and Christianity
>like two trains moving in opposite directions. Unification must be built on a
>democratic system, and I think democracy CANNOT exist under Islamic religion because it
>does not give the freedom to worship as one pleases, live as one pleases, do what ever
>a person pleases. I could be wrong, but please prove me so, however, do it using good
 
 You can not even dream about anything that please you. Suppose there is a war agaisnt
 the USA and they activate the draft. You say: I don't want to fight and I don't mind
 living under occupations. Do they listen to you?
 
 In the USA, an 18 years old, go listed in the Army and fought for his/her country,
 yet, he/she does not have the right to drink.
 
 A father can take his child to church and teach him/her nonsense according to someone
 else. Yet, this someone else does have the right to teach his child how make sex
 with adults. just to show you that when you talk about "whatever a person pleases",
 then there is no limit and no culture ever gave that).
 
>old human commonsense and logic not what is written here and there. Lastly, unification
>CANNOT exit under Islamic religion as long that the leadership must be Muslims. This
>will always alienate the other minorities as we presently have in the middle east.
>
>The middle east was unified under Muaweya I, What I read about him he was not a
>religious leader, but an astute politician that relied on all people. Islam was in it's
>glory under him ALONE. Afterward, it fell apart because of religious pull and ferver. I
>beleive this is were christianity can do better, Lebanon was the Jewel of the middle
>east because the christians had a huge influence on the political system. Now it's
>gone. and may never be the same.
>
 
 No. Look about South America. Look at Chili, Nicaragua, Panama and so on.
 are Moslems in power in those countries? 
 
 It is not because of whether a Moslem or Christian is in power. There are millions
 of other factors. That is another subject.
 
>If any one wants to discuss these issues, please do it on a human level and do no
>prohetise, I treat religions as teachings, not laws of god.
>
>A.Faris
 
 
 Anwar Saleh