HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Niddah and Pregnancy
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:48:36 GMT

On 26 Jan 93 17:13 PST, Stephen Dubin <sdubin@igc.apc.org> said:

S> While on the topic of contraception, I wonder whether there has been any
S> recent rabinical decisions on vasectomy.  I know that injury to the 
S> TESTICLES disqualifies one from being part of the  kehilah, but vasectomy
S> actually is done on the vasa defferentia.  In particular I wonder whether
S> the rabbis have ever considered that - of all the methods of contraception
S> that might be used after the obligation of procreation has been fulfilled -
S> vasectomy is the only one that prevents haschatat hazerah in the sense
S> that the spermatozoa are certainly the essential element of zerah.

	As I understood things, contraceptive methods that interfere
(read: prevent) with the deposition of semen in the vagina are
forbidden.  Also, of course, are any methods that abort a fertilized
ovum (as the IUD is suspected to work, but there's still some question
about this).  

	I'm afraid I don't recall the authorities for this
interpretation.  Anyone?

-- Cerebus <tjm@floyd.brooks.af.mil>
"In other words, you can armor the target, but you can't take the
 bullets out of the gun."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.religion.misc
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Re: technical question here
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:10:40 GMT

H_Markowitz@att.com writes:
] On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:02:42 GMT, drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) said:
] 
] > would you recommend that they spend a little time
] > understanding a bit of the Talmud before they
] > go kibitzing about what the 'old testament' means?
] 
] A good idea.  Unfortunately, as seen with the missionaries on
] alt.messianic, they insist on deliberately misreading the Talmud also.
] If they understood what they were reading they wouldn't give us so much
] trouble.

Well it was a thought...

I guess things are tough all over.

ciao
drieux


ps: Now if only we can get the Protestants and the Catholics
to agree on the bit about transubstantiation....



-- 
MajorModernDayProblems: 

"If you will not talk with Yourself, 
Why should anyone else?"
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:40:25 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1jklfoINNqks@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>In article 203464@uctvax.uct.ac.za, naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za () writes:
>
>>> The 18th century was a time of severe population fluctuations due to
>>> internal and external wars, famines and epidemics.  A standard source
>>> is Palestine in the 18th Century, by Amnon Cohen.  Neither in this
>>> nor in any other place have I seen a claim that Palestine was devoid
>>> of Arabs (or even that Arabs were a minority) during any of that time.
>>> Frankly I don't believe it, though I wouldn't be surprised if some
>>> pseudo-scholar of the Joan Peters variety has found a few sentences
>>> in someone's travelogue to "prove" it.
>
>>I have not been able to find any books claiming that there were any
>>significant amount of Arabs in Israel during the 18th century. The
>> sources I have seen mentioned Jews, Turks, Armenians, Copts,
>>Greeks. Why is there no mention of Arabs??? Where were they hiding?
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>They are the general background of "villagers", "farmers", "fellah" etc
>that travellers don't specifically identify as foreigners.
> Everybody knew that the residents were predominantly Arabs,
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

EVERYBODY but EVERYBODY!

The term Arabs was used solelely to BEDUINES.

Only at the beginning of this century when the Nationalism starts
among Muslims in the middle east , muslims stsrted calling themseves
ARABs, look at the Britanica 1910 ( population) for the begining of
that misleading use of the term ARABS.
Remember that when Gamal Abdul Nasar ( Egyptian president) decided he
whant to be the leader of the middle east he change his own people
from Egyptians to ARABS !

We shall overcome    gideon Ehrlich   ERETS YISRAEL
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosherizing Recipes
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:16:49 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <1k4tblINNcao@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
>I have been perusing old cookbooks lately for simple recipes, and I have
>found many interesting possibilities, which contain some non-kosher
>ingredient, either as the main ingredient or a flavoring.

[most of list deleted]

>welsh rabbit (!)	(common in older cookbooks; maybe chicken?)

Welsh rabbit (sometimes spelled "rarebit") is not rabbit at all!
I don't remember exactly what it is but it's something like grilled 
cheese on toast.  No meat at all, I believe.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dbtdxc@ARCO.COM (David Chapin)
Subject: Re: How do Jews reconcile science and philosophy with their faith?
Organization: ARCO Oil and Gas Company
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:14:20 GMT

This discussion has gone on long enough. Shows you the beauty of
Judaism - everyone can have an acceptable (and different) opinion. 
Like the old joke: If you have 2 Jews, you have 3 synagogues. 

But seriously, I think that the common thread of all the responses
to the question is that Judaism pays more attention to the ethical
meaning in the bible, rather than the absolute historic facts. This
leaves plenty of room for interpretation, and Judaism encourages it.
Science, on the other hand, generally does not deal with ethical
issues. Therefore from a Jewish standpoint, science and religion can
easily coexist. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cs922177@ariel.yorku.ca (DANIEL T FARKAS)
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:46:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.175050.22860@dazixco.ingr.com> raven@dazixco.ingr.com (Denise Raven) writes:
>
>Part of "adapting to the times" is realizing that women's roles have 
>changed in this time.  Religion is a system of beliefs.  If the system
>imposed on women does not meet their needs in this time, they will
>abandon it.  This is a test.  Had this been an actual reality check,
>you would have been notified that most religions are clubs with special
>rules.  ; ) If you argue that your rules are divine, okay, you win and you
>get to keep the rules and lose people like Maddi and me and many other
>women of this time.  If you argue that your religion is divine
>and that when the situations change, new rules can apply, you can still
>win and keep many women in your club, I mean religion, I mean culture.
>

It seems that the main point of disagreement is the following.  Many
people, like Maddi and yourself, feel that this religion no longer
"meets your needs".  It is your (plural) opinion that this is a fault of
the religion.  I disagree.  Religion is not something that you change to
meet your needs. (a club is...)  Orthodoxy does not change their rules
period.  Reform does change "to suit the times".  Unfortunately, I still
don't fully understand when the Reform movement is "allowed" to change
the rules, and on what they base their changes.  However, the problem I
find with this system, is that the laws lose their divine origin once
you start changing them.  I don't think that every time society changes,
you can change the rules, and then claim that *this* is what G-d wanted.
How do you know?  If it's because man decided that this is what g-d
wanted, then it's really not divine anymore, but rather just originating
from that man's decision.  (You don't *really* know that g-d in fact
wanted that particular change.)

The Reform movement, doesn't agree with anything I just said.  They feel
that man has the right to change the laws to "suit the times".  I can't
explain why, but I'm sure Daniel Faigin can, so I'll leave that to him.

Please notice that this post has not been a flame at anybody.  I have
merely clarified the point of contention, and *why* there is a
disagreement.  Like Daniel has mentioned, it is highly unlikely that
anyone will change their mind after listening to the other's arguments.
Therfore, I implore you (the reader) not to respond if you have nothing
to add but a restatement of the differences.  I've mentioned before that
I really don't have the time for this, and I wasn't lying. 

Once again, in all seriousness,
                                                  Danny
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ANTISEMITE - Is there a better word?
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:07:49 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David) writes:

> Do people think that the word "antisemite" properly conveys its intended use 
> mean a person against Jews and Judaism? Technically, semites are members of a
> group which share the semitic languages and include Jews, Arabs, Assyrians et
> all of whom are descendants of Shem. How about Judeophobe?
-----
How about "Buchanan?"
From: khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:42:06 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: boa.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <1993Jan22.010239.1@vmsa.technion.ac.il> chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il writes:
>First, let us agree that one can learn without observing, just as one
>can observe without learning (viz. "hassid am-haaretz"). 

How can one observe without knowing what he observes and why? I don't
see how it would work... So, I don't think I agree at all.

>
>One is clearly complimentary:
>"Women are merciful." (Megillah 14b)
>				 
>Another implies that men and women are worlds apart:
>"Women are a nation unto themselves." (Shabbat 62a)
>
>A third pronounces on female sexuality:
>"Women are not sensitive [to genital manipulation]". (Niddah 13a)
>
>As for the remainder:
>"Women are light-minded." (Kiddushin 80b)
>"Women are talkative." (Berachot 48b)
>"Women are lazy." (Jerushalmi Pesachim Ch.1, Halacha 1)
>"Women are gluttonous." (Tohorot Ch.7, Mishnah 9)
>"Women who quarrel, quarrel about [each other's] adultery. (Kiddushin 76a)
>"Women tell each other everything in the toilet. (Gittin 45a)

Hmm... This is interesting. I'll be sure to check this and look closely
into these.





Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alter Rebbe?
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:28:26 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

In article <1993Jan22.205406.24865@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>Rabbis get names and titles like this based on books they've written
>or on things they've done.  The Alter Rebbe was probably called this
>as a nickname, which caught on.  I've never heard of someone's name
>changing after death - at the very least, it's disrespectful.
The folllowing is admittedly based on "hearsay", please correct:

There was Alter Rebbe, his son - Mittele (middle),
and next one (grandson?) was supposed to be a last one
(Moshiah?), and it didnt work out (for some reasons?).

and the next

>-- 
>  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to



Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:25980 soc.culture.canada:10286 can.politics:11630
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: Davidic Lineage
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:53:27 GMT

In article <1k5b35INNpi1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ct976@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (H. Da
niel Hirsch) writes:
>
>I have a neighbor, a sephardic Rabbi, who can trace himself to
>a certain author.  The author of the sefer - in the introduction
>- traces his own lineage to David.  That sound like Davidic
>lineage to me.

Query: is there any Jew in this group who is _not_ descended from
David (and just about everybody else)?  Comment from demographers and
statisticians especially welcome.

Norman Miller


Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:26268 soc.culture.arabic:6963
From: F66204@BARILVM.BITNET (Shaul Wallach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Jews and Ozir (Was Re: What is H a m a s ??)
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:55:11 GMT
 <93026.203346F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel


     Again I have another short addition to my last post. I
hope Hamza sees this before responding, in order to avoid
unnecessary repetition.

In article <93026.203346F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>, Shaul Wallach
<F66204@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:

>>                              The al-Tawba 30 did not come for the reason
>>you are telling me about. It came for the reason I have mentioned to you
>>when Allah has brought to life some one called Bukhustner after 100 years of
>>his death.  The Jews said that he is the son of God as a result of that.
>
>    Who is Bukhustner?? Can you give me an exact reference?

     After finding Ibn Kathir and Qurtobi I've identified the name.
It's just the Arab form of Nebuchadnezzar, but I think it should be
read as Bukhtanasar.

>>>>There are two version of the story.  One that muslim scholars record and
>>>>other non-muslim (western) ones.
>>
>>>    Can you give me a source for the latter?
>>
>> Try Tafseer Ibn Katheer and Qurtobi.

     I just found these in our Arabic library. I don't have time
to translate everything, so I ask Hamza's indulgence for any
mistakes (if you request, I will do my best to translate the
stories next time, Inshallah). Ibn Kathir gives essentially Tabari's
second hadith which I posted last night in summary. Qurtobi,
however, presents a more composite account in which Bukhtanasar
is mentioned. The reason I believe it is composite is because
Qurtobi gives a story about Bukhtanasar on Surat al-Baqara
259, in which the latter killed or exiled the scholars when
he destroyed the Bayt al-Muqaddas (the First Temple in
Jerusalem), among whom was Yirmaya (Jeremiah) or `Uzayr
(Ezra). I didn't find, however, the story about `Uzayr
restoring the Taurat after 100 years in this account. What
appears likely to me is that Bukhtanasar took the place of the
Amalekites in Tabari's second hadith on al-Tawba 30. But what
you posted above isn't found anywhere I looked. Bukhtanasar
was the Babli who destroyed the Temple and killed or exiled
the scholars, not the Jew who came back to life after 100
years, as you wrote above. Now do you see how stories can
become altered?

Shalom,

Shaul Wallach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: HABER@ZENO.MSCD.EDU
Subject: Israel College Student Summer Trip
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <HABER@ZENO.MSCD.EDU>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:30:51 GMT

From:	ZENO::HABER        21-JAN-1993 21:21:10.45
To:	IN%"jem@nysernet.ORG"
CC:	HABER
Subj:	RE: Israel Trip

 

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unforgettable  adventure  in Israel.                      
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*    HIKE in the nature preserves of the Galilee
*    GREET Ethiopian & Russian Jews
*    CRAWL through the caves of the Dead Sea Scrolls
*    SWIM in the Mediterranean Sea and the Kinneret
*    PREPARE for Shabbat in the mystic hills of Safed
*    LEARN about Israel's current political and social issues
*    STUDY your heritage
                             
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Metropolitan State College of Denver and Brenda Morrison, Director of 
Denver 
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Program Fee: $2495   Includes airfare from Denver - Tel Aviv, lodging, 
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program costs, ground transportation, and 3 semester hours of upper 
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Date:  June 6-20,1993      
Information: 556-2952 or 777-2773   Dates and fees are tentative pending 
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Denver 
and University of Colorado. Alternate departure and return flight 
arrangements 
available to extend your stay in Israel.
From: kr3@ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest etc.
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:11:10 GMT
Organization: Physikalisches Institut, U of Stuttgart, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ph3hp840.physik.uni-stuttgart.de

Greg Kosinovsky (kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu) in his discussions with 
Mikhail Zeleny writes:

>I simply enjoy making fun of a pompous fool who deems himself to be an 
>intellegent man

>Greg K.

Well, you are not the only one on the list who enjoys it. Not that
Mr. Z. really needs your assistance in it - he is quite self-
sufficient in this respect.

Let me quote just a short fragment which shows the deep knowledge
which lurks behind that haughty (pseudo)intellectual argot of his:


>The regime of Nikita Khruschev fell in October of 1964.  Before that,
>the regime of Stalin and his heirs fell in June of 1957.  I refer you
>to the text by Carl A. Linden, _Khruschev and the Soviet Leadership_,
>should these dates fall too far outside of the circle of your
>historical expertise.

I understand the date of June 1957 refers to the so-called `Anti-party
plot' by Malenkov, Molotov and Kaganovich. I completely fail to see
why this date should be significant, and as a matter of fact neither
do I see the significance of Khrushchev's (sp!) demise in 1964. *All* of
them were heirs to Stalin without a single exception, including
Khrushchev. The reason for the events of 1957 was that the coalition 
that formed at Stalin's deathbed inevitably crumbled, with each
party hack trying to outmaneuver the others. Khruschev turned out
to be smarter than the others, that's all. That's what Mr. Kosinovski
has justly called a non-event.

BTW. it might be of interest to the readers of soc.culture.jewish that
very recently documents were discovered bearing upon the fate of
Raoul Wallenberg. According to yesterday's news the signature under
Wallenberg's arrest in Budapest in 1945 was none other's than the
Khrushchev's appointee, prime minister Bulganin, who succeeded Malenkov
in this position.

Regards, Jeremi Krawczyk


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Religious breakdown of Clinton Cabinet
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:14:30 GMT

In article <C1999A.HA7@cs.bham.ac.uk> gmk@cs.bham.ac.uk (Gideon M H Kay) writes:
>
>  Not being an American, nor a person who understands the actual
>  Constitutional relationship between the President and the
>  Vice-President can someone explain exactly how much of a say Al Gore
>  will have in the policy decisions that the Clinton Administration
>  makes about Israel and Jews in general???

The U. S. Vice President is really a president-in-waiting.  If
something happens to the president he can take over. He also serves
as president of the senate which means if there is a tie vote he can
break the tie.

Other than that, the v.p. has as much influence as the president
allows.  Franklin Roosevelt kept his v.p., Harry Truman, complete;y
in the dark about everything.

Clinton has said he will include Gore in many decisions, and it is
likely Gore will sit in on many policy making meetings with the
president.  But this is pure speculation.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:16:06 GMT

In article <gZ4PXB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:

   BEZEK,  the israeli telephone company, installed a fax next to the Kotel
   (Wailing Wall) where everybody can send a prayer or petition to God, and
   an employee of the company puts them  afterwards in the gaps between the 
   stones of the wall.  The best of it: this service is free of charge! The
   fax number is:

			   (++ 972 2) 61.22.22

I am having trouble chuckling and dismissing this story, for two
reasons:

1) Assuming that this will be a very popular service (the version of
   the story I read had American long-distance providers AT&T and MCI
   expressing interest in this service), how are they going to find
   room for all the paper?

2) While I don't know the source of the custom, but I always assumed
   that you were expected to insert the paper note yourself.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish