HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Cohena@mdc.com (Andy Cohen)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Telepresence
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:12:05 GMT
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: MDGAC

In article <9210070147.AA09594@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov>,
roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) wrote:
>			The simulator displays a phantom
>   image of the robot superimposed on the delayed "real" monitoring image of
>   the robot. The phantom responds to control signals immediately -- that is,
>   without transmission delay. Its motion predicts that of the real robot.
>   After the transmission delay, the real image of the robot follows the motion
>   of the phantom image.

This sounds like it may be a bit easier to do then what I had proposed.
I'll look up the article...  We've heard of similar approaches from the
Canadians while working the displays for operation of the mobile servicing
center and the SSF arm....  They wanted to do something like this, but the
SW onboard could not provide the animation capabilities....

Andy Cohen
Xref: sparky sci.space:14276 sci.astro:10574 alt.sci.planetary:141
From: regester@astro.as.arizona.edu (Jeff Regester)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary
Subject: ASTRONOMY CAMPS FOR TEENS AND ADULTS
Keywords: LUNA, Moon, Soviet, farside
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:52:58 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

The Steward Observatory Astronomy Camps for Adults and Teens for the
coming winter, spring and summer have been scheduled. The dates are:
   Advanced Adult Camp   Feb 18-21
   Beginning Adult Camp  Apr 23-25
   Beginning Teen Camp   Jun 7-14
   Advanced Teen Camp    Jun 18-25

The Astronomy Camps are run by Steward Observatory (Univ. of Arizona)
as a non-profit educational outreach project. Attendees use the 40",
60", and 61" research telescopes of the Mt Lemmon and Mt Bigelow
Observatories (north of Tucson) operated by NASA and Steward. A 16"
Schmidt camera and numerous portable telescopes are also available.

The Adult Camps are during weekends and consist of observing (using
eyepieces, astrophotography with film and CCDs, and photometry,
according to participant interest) and lectures, demonstrations, and
discussions. Tours of research and engineering facilities, such as the
spin-casting facilities of the Steward Observatory Mirror Lab, are
also conducted.

The Teen Camps (for ages 13 to 17) each last a week, four nights of which
are spent observing. Activities include those of the Adult Camps plus tours
of Kitt Peak facilities, science demonstrations, lectures (space program,
archaeoastronomy, space art with Kim Poor, etc.) and other activities 
(model rockets, volleyball, orienteering in the mountains, etc.)

For both Teens and Adults, the Advanced camps are for those who have 
previously attended a Beginning Camp or who have prior amateur astronomy
experience. The Camps are run by Dr Donald McCarthy of Steward Observatory.
Other Steward faculty and graduate students, as well as personnel of Flandrau 
Planetarium, participate as guest speakers and camp counselors.

To receive more info about the Camps, contact either

 Don McCarthy  voice: (602)621-4079
               email: mccarthy@astro.as.arizona.edu
               usps:  Steward Observatory, U of A, Tucson AZ, 85721
    or

 Jeff Regester voice: (602)621-6535
               email: regester@astro.as.arizona.edu
               usps:  Steward Observatory, U of A, Tucson AZ, 85721


     Jeff Regester
     counselor, U of A Astronomy Camps
From: XOUGROVE@idbsu.idbsu.edu (Micky Brus)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Space.gifs
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:23:15 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

Just needing some help in reading gifs.  I have downloaded some space gifs
from Ames, but can`t get them to work on my gif reader.  I am using Cshow and
have not had trouble reading gifs until I tried the ones that are downloaded of
f Internet.  I use binary mode instead of ascii.  Is there anything that I
am missing?  Thanks for your help.
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert)
Subject: Wernher von Braun (was Re: von_Brown_)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Constance
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:50:37 GMT

pstc@igc.apc.org (Public Service Telecommunications Consortium) writes:

>I'll have to ht some books on Von Braun's Gestapo role and title,
>but I do remember, years ago, one of his sidekicks, in an 
>interview in the old (long-gone) Herald Tribune in New York,
>stating that "Dr. von Braun was a major in the Gestapo, but,
>of course, the title was strictly honorary."  

Whoever this stated was wrong. Probably he had some military rank, but he was
not in Gestapo (instead, he was occasionally imprisoned by them for a few 
days).

>In this same
>interview, the same sidekick spoke of Dr. von Braun's desire
>to become fully Americanized and was seriously considering 
>changing his name. Henceforth, he would _not_ be Werner von
                                                  ^^^^^^
Instead of this (common, at least in Germany) name, his first name was 
Wernher (which is quite unusual).
    ^

>_Braun_ but, instead, Werner von _Brown_.  
--
 Hartmut Frommert                 <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Luna 10
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:00:20 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <n0c2dt@ofa123.fidonet.org> David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>However, the Soviet Union launched a spacecraft that carried a gamma
>spectrometer into a polar lunar orbit (71 degrees inclination), back
>in 1966. Has anyone ever seen the data from this instrument? ...

I doubt that this was a gamma-ray spectrometer in the sense that the term
is now usually used, i.e. something useful for surface mapping.  If it was,
the data has never been released; Lunar Sourcebook, the authoritative
source on virtually everything known about the Moon, doesn't even mention
Luna 10.

In any case, 71 degrees is not good enough.  The inclination needs to be
a full 90 degrees.  A gamma-ray spectrometer is not an imaging instrument;
the data you get is from the surface more or less directly under the
spacecraft.  The incidence of permanent shadow drops sharply once you're
more than a few degrees from the pole; lunar slopes are gentle.
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Subject: Re: Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:42:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.132114.22408@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>
>You provided an estimate of the cost which
>was totally based on unrealisticly high launch costs. 

This completely cracks me up.   Actual commercial launch costs
is "unrealistically high".  What Allen wishes launch costs were
is quite real, by comparison.  :-) :-)

You are also still completely missing the point that lower
launch costs benefit every kind of space project, and do
not change the comparison of lunar mining vs. alternatives.


-- 
Nick Szabo					 szabo@techboook.com
Hold Your Nose: vote Republocrat  ////////  Breathe Free: vote Libertarian
Newsgroups: sci.space,misc.kids,sci.education,misc.education,tx.general
From: cocking@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Cara Cocking)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Earth's two moons
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:21:04 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA


 I took an astronomy class in high school and my teacher told us that
 Earth really has two moons but that the other one can't be seen unaided
 because it's a lot smaller and farther out. 

 I've been telling some people that Earth has two moons but no one 
 believes me.  Could someone please confirm this?


-- 
Cara Cocking               | "Believing I had supernatural powers, 
cocking@csugrad.cs.vt.edu  |  I slammed into a brick wall" 
                                           -Paul Simon, "Gumboots"
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: gawne@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Env. Satellites Shutdown in Dec. 1992
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:34:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.232405.15250@news.arc.nasa.gov>, 
rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland) writes:
>  We at Langley Research Center received news on Thursday, October 2,
> 1992 that NASA intends to shutdown the following satellites in
> December to save about $15M:
> 
>      NUMBUS-7
>      ERBS
>      NOAA-9
>      NOAA-10

How is the money to be saved?  Are they going to furlough all of the operations
staff?  Will any health and safety telemetry still come down, or are they
to just fly free for a month?

Do any of these satellites use TDRSS?

The whole thing seems pretty disturbing to me.  When will the satellites be
reactivated, if ever?

-Bill Gawne,  Space Telsecope Science Institute
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 06:18:36 GMT

szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:

>aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>>szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>>
>>>More than enough money _where_?  The SEI budget is in the $10's...
>>
>>Nick, nobody is talking anything about SEI. The question was raised of how
>>much a particular project would cost. The estimate you give was wildly 
>>in error since you failed to account for the cost effects of a larger market.

>That's strange, we just had a huge thread about SEI's FLO, which
>you flamed me for daring to criticize.

Nick, I've never once seen anybody flamed for "daring to criticize" anything 
(with the possible exception of the Bible and UFO theories).  People flame you
because they think your criticisms are incorrect.
This thread is not about FLO or SEI.  If it were, it would be _in_ the thread
on FLO.  Instead, it was rather clearly begun anew, with no reference to SEI or
goverment funding at all that I recall.

>There isn't any paying market from the point of view of business, either, 
>whether the project costs $100 billion or $1,000 billion.  Business just 
>does not invest in schemes that require multiple layers of new technologies 
>assumed to be orders of magnitude cheaper than what previous projects 
>have accomplished. 

Which quite clearly states our qualms about your figures.  _If_ a lunar base
is built, it will be done at "reasonable" costs or not at all.  There are 
enough new technologies on the horizon to assume that this is not impossible.


>Finally, the major volume-expanding market already exists, comsats.
>But your culture, the NSS lobbyist and NASA contractors, have chosen
>to snub comsats, and really commerce and general, as some sort of
>hanger-on.  

Hmmm.  Does the comsat industry need NSS people chanting "build comsats" at
political conventions?  Do they need NASA asking for money?  Somehow I think
not.

>-- 
>Nick Szabo					 szabo@techboook.com
>Hold Your Nose: vote Republocrat  ////////  Breathe Free: vote Libertarian
-- 
Josh Hopkins                                          jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
	 The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Sputnik I - 35th anniversary
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:29:31 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <164@newave.newave.mn.org> john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>> Today the earth has approximately 7000 moons.
>
>How many of these moons have stable orbits?  In this case, I define stable
>to mean that they will stay in orbit for 100+ years without expending any
>fuel...

Most of them are in low orbit and will come down more quickly than that.
But orbital lifetimes up in Clarke orbit are millions of years.

>What would it take to build a sattelite that would stay up for a long time
>without having to be reboosted or carrying large amounts of fuel?

Just a fairly high orbit.  Even 1000km would get you out of the worst of
the air drag and would probably be good for millennia (I don't have
numbers handy).  Unfortunately, that *does* start to get you into the
inner Van Allen belt... it might be better to go all the way to Clarke
orbit if you want your satellite to *function* for a long time.  Even
there you'd have to worry about degradation of solar arrays and such.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: sl25@cus.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Using Electric Rockets for Science (was Re: Ion for Pluto Direct)
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:48:23 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England


|> 
|> The really big problem with ion propulsion to the outer planets is that a
|> adequate power source does not exist. You cannot use solar panels for that
|> kind of mission much beyon the orbit of Mars -- they would need to be
|> *very* large. A nuclear reactor is about the only source you could use to
|> power the engines, and aside from the obvious political problems of trying
|> to launch the reactor, I don't think the technology is ready for this kind
|> of long duration mission. 

What about a foil mirror to concentrate light on a relatively small solar array?
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 02:34:01 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Oct10.014257.7624@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>>You provided an estimate of the cost which
>>was totally based on unrealisticly high launch costs. 
>
>This completely cracks me up.   Actual commercial launch costs
>is "unrealistically high"...

I didn't realize you were already signing contracts for this venture, Nick,
so you could quote *actual* costs.  Where did the funding come from? :-)

"Actual commercial launch costs" for a few comsats a year are very different
from what "actual commercial launch costs" *would be* for the sort of project
under discussion.  As Allen pointed out, there's more than enough money there
for commercial development of a dozen new launch systems.  Put that kind of
volume business out for contract and costs *will* tumble.  Using today's cost
numbers for it is ridiculous, like estimating the materials costs for a 747
based on the prices Napoleon paid for aluminum.  (Napoleon's dinner guests
used gold tableware; *his* was aluminum, a far more expensive metal.)
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: SETI positive?
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:28:10 GMT


   First of all, thanks for the firm "no" in answer to my original question,
guys.  I tracked down the local source of the rumor and gave him whatfor...

In article <NICKH.92Oct8120928@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU>, nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick
Haines) writes:
> In article <1992Oct8.142721.24636@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eatlv@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
(thomas.vandoren) writes:
> 
>    [about SETI range]
> 
>       I assume what you were saying is that random radio or TV emissions
could
>    be detected within a 100 light year range?  Thats not too bad, how many
>    systems are there in that range?  Maybe 20 ?
> 
> Stars within 100ly? Several thousand (I used to have this kind of
> figure to hand). Of which several hundred are reasonable targets for
> SETI (single yellow stars).

   Curiosity: why yellow?  Don't main sequence orange and red stars last longer
than yellow ones?  Is there some reson to think cooler stars than the sun won't
develop technological civilizations?

   For that matter, wouldn't _any_ star system be a candidate for an
automated communications relay left by a self reproducing probe?  A 
paranoid might think another civilization would attempt to contact us
only through an offset communications device :).
 
> Nick

Dan
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: millard@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Millard Edgerton)
Subject: Re: HRMS
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:56:22 GMT

eric@ils.nwu.edu (Eric Goldstein) writes:

>I guess I really wanted to know:  Over what range of frequencies do we
>significantly leak, and are those frequencies capable of being detected
>by HRMS?  The HRMS press kit that Ron Baalke posted (thanks Ron!)
>said that the targeted search would search at 1,000 to 3,000 MHz.  I
>know we leak significantly on the TV bands, but TV is around 10 MHz,
>right?  So, I was wondering if we also leak at detectable levels at
>1,000 to 3,000 MHz.  And if we do, what is the source of the leakage?
>If I've displayed a real misunderstanding, please go easy on me -- this
>isn't my field --  and I'd genuinely appreciate any explanations.

>                   -- Eric
TV Low VHF is 60 - 88 Mhz( Channels 2 - 6), Hi VHF is 175 thru 216 Mhz,
(Channels 7 - 13).  UHF (Channels 14 - 83) are 471 - 890 Mhz.

The search is first made at the "water hole".  21 cm where the ability
to penetrate to water/atmosphere is easiest.  

Only tv carriers & other strong signals like radar would make it out very
far.  The information(modulated sidebands) contain very little energy.

Cheers

***************************************************************************
* When I examine myself and my methods of   | Standard disclaimers apply  *
* thought, I come to the conclusion that the| Millard J. Edgerton, WA6VZZ *
* gift of fantasy ment more to me than my   | millard@eos.arc.nasa.gov    *
* talent for absorbing positive knowledge. A. Einstein                    *
***************************************************************************
From: sell@wam.umd.edu (Steven Wayne Sell)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: SF-171
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:46:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Does anybody know where I can get an SF-171 in computer format for the
Macintosh.  I've seen someone filling one of these out on campus, but
he didn't have time to give me copy on the spot, and I can't seem to 
locate him again.  Is it available on an FTP site?

Steve
From: bmjohnso@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Shuttle Lauch Schedule Request
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 18:47:57 CST
Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada


Anyone with information regarding the shuttle launch schedule...?

I would like to know if there are any launch dates scheduled for the
following dates...

Saturday December 19, 1992 through till Sunday January 3, 1993...?

Please respond asap!

Brian Johnson
WINNIPEG, Manitoba, Canada

Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Where is Neil Armstrong??
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:43:48 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <komarimf.718648867@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> komarimf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Mark 'Henry' Komarinski) writes:
>...if I recall correctly, I saw him on the Discovery Channel hosting
>one of their flight or space shows.  I heard that after the moon walk,
>he had some serious bouts with depression, since he had done the most
>important thing in his life and everything else was meaningless.

That sounds like Aldrin, not Armstrong.
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Next shuttle orbital elements needed.
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero)
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:58:20 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA

  Anyone have a prediction on the next shuttle's orbital elements?

Thanks.







<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero rivero@mdcbbs.com  "Middle-aged Mutant Ninja Animator" |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: erudnick@claudius.pica.army.mil (Edward J. Rudnicki )
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: More 0 ring problems....
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:34:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U.S. Army  Armament Research Development & Engineering Center, Dover NJ
Originator: erudnick@claudius


Chuck Shotton writes:
#Why not? the magic wand is as simple as a welding rod. If your talking
#about not recovering the SRBs, simply stack 'em up and weld the joints all
#the way around. Instant one-piece casing.


There would still be at least one joint, at the base where the nozzle
assembly attaches to the motor case (one cannot of course weld after
the grain is cast :), and (I'm not sure on this one) at the top of
the cylindrical portion of the case where the igniter assembly is
mounted.

Casting a one-piece grain the size of the SRB's is a decidedly non-
trivial task; inspecting such a grain is even more so. As an aside,
what operational solid rocket motors are bigger than the SRBs?

Another factor is burning geometry. The SRB grain is in the form of a
hollow cylinder, with the outer surface bonded to the case and thus
not available as a burning surface. In such a motor, the burn rate and
thus pressure and thrust increase as the motor burns, since as the ID
gets larger the inner (burning) surface does as well. However, the SRB
employs a segmented grain, where burning is permitted at the interface
surfaces as well. Thus as the ID gets larger the lengths of the segments
are getting smaller at the same time, keeping the burning surface and thus
burn rate and pressure and thrust more nearly constant during the motor
burn. In a one-piece grain that linearity is achieved through a complex
central hole design, which would add to the complexity of casting and
inspection.

It's doable, and is done routinely on smaller motors, but this just shows
another advantage of the segmented design. The advantages of course end up
being weighed against the disadvantages, which are also significant.



Ed Rudnicki (who only gets to play with smaller motors)
erudnick@pica.army.mil            All disclaimers apply
From: mwallis@clubzen.fidonet.org (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Gravity-NEUTRALIZING Space Shuttle
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 12:09:14 PST
Organization: Club Zen BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>                If we have to put up a space station, establish Moon 
>           bases, go to Mars, rendezvous with comets, etc., WHY DO IT 
>           THE HARD WAY?! 

Must have something to do with it being the only proven way to get there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@clubzen.fidonet.org

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!