HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Subject: Re: Star Editorial
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:54:19 GMT

cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings) writes:
> From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
> >yeh, the Mail is dedicated to revealing anything that the armed forces are
> >involved in, ie. anything that is to the detriment of the reconciliation
> >process.  if my memory serves me well, a lot of people rebuked the Mail for
> >spreading making wild accusations.  some went as far as insinuating that it
> >was supportive of the anc course (does that ring any bells, govan).  but
> >then , the mail kept onat it.  the job of the people at the mail have
> >produced results.  let us applaud their efforts.  i hope they kept on doing
> >the good job.
> 
> NO! NO! 
> 
> You must not applaud the people at the Weekly Mail.  They are mainly white
> South Africans and ALL white South Africans are boers, racists, liars, etc
> (ask Makala, he knows this)
that is a rather senseless way of responding to anything.  what makes you
think that i subscribe to the same philosophy as Makala?
for your information, i do not believe that ALL white south africans are
racists, etc....  i do believe, however, that the likes of you who do not
want to give credit where it is due are the once you are hindering the
process of reconciliation.  stop diverting attention from the issues and
address the statement i made in the earlier posting.

> Never try to teach a pig to sing
> It wastes your time and annoys the pig
>                                - Robert Heinlein

phoka


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: TODAY IN AFRICA.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:34:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.150116.11660@cs.wayne.edu> faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong) writes:
>Sometime last week, I heard the big news. NBC was going to spend an
>entire week on Africa.	I thought of all the times I've complained
>about Africa being underepresented on U.S t.v as compared to the other
>continents, and felt good that a news team was finally going to give us
>what they called "Africa, like you've never seen it before."
>I haven't been able to watch the entire two hours so far, since I have
>to go to school but have been able to catch some of it. This morning, I
>got myself ready for Zimbabwe, where the report was being done from a
>national park.
>   My first disgust came up when the interviews began. I saw several
>whites being interviewed. They were asked about their feelings for the
>park, and the animals within it. Now this really hurt. When news teams
>
>	[portions of article deleted]
>
i haven't seen tuesday's telecast of "today" but i thought that monday's
program was pretty informative; and i found the segment on the children
of mozambique to be particularly moving; and i did notice that black
africans were interviewed in the piece.  i think that it was good that
the story focused on 3 or 4 children to give people a chance to see and
relate to the terrors that those young children faced.  in this way the
children seemed more like real people, something that gets lost in the
en masse approach normally used by the networks when reporting such a
story.

in my mind, i think a big part of what the week long series is trying to do
is give people in the us a chance to learn more about the continent than one
does in the rare 30 second snippets that one gets in network news broadcasts;
and to give people an opportunity to see some of the issues confronting nations
on the continent [which i thought bryant gumbal did in a couple of his segments].

i suspect that the target audience for this series is americans, but then
since that's where the show originates from the us, that doesn't seem to
me to be at all bad.

i thought that katherine kouric appeared to be a bit uncomfortable. hmmm...

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN PAUL
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:17:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov17.071716.452
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:10:39 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <9650@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> Paul M Mweene, pmmst8+@pitt.edu
writes:
>I did not need to sample any one to know that theories about
homosexuality in
>Zaire were pure illusions. I have sampled enough Africans im my life.

Choose you words more carefully when dealing with such a sensitive
subject.

:{
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Subject: Re: South African Contacts at UCT
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 18:07:15 GMT

Thus spake pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene):

> Recently I shamed the wise and faultless know-all petty scribes who have so 
> adeptly and craftly crafted the spotless and sparkling image that Beloved 
> South Africa is no longer the blackman-hating-country that we all knew it be,
> by utilising certain channels to consult directly with concentration camp
> incanceratees.....

You shamed no-one. Not a single South African posting here has implied
that South Africa is a country free of problems or injustices. Quite
the contrary. But then, "there are none so blind as those who will not
see". What you fail to understand (and I have absolutely no illusions
that you will ever understand it), is that this place is not a
one-dimensional cartoon. It's a complex, multi-faceted country, and in
some ways its complexities make some of its problems harder to deal
with (please note the word _some_), because they are not always all
that easy to define. This has been particularly true in recent years. 

By explaining to other readers that you are lying when you fabricate
students and scenarios at UCT, I for one am certainly not saying that
there is no racism, intimidation, murder, corruption, votelessness,
inequality, police brutality, apartheid, poverty, starvation and fear
in this country. But that doesn't turn your lies into truth.

> I will help the BOSS and 
> the Broederbond by informing them that they have been scouring their files in
> vain. Nay, I did not give you the real names. 

Of course you didn't. You didn't give the real picture either. You
made it up. Things are pretty bad for many people here. Why lie about
areas where they are less bad?

Linda


 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda Jacobson				'That's fine, boy, never mind
Department of Medicine			 the tulips.'
Faculty of Vet Science			     
Onderstepoort, South Africa			(Hunter S. Thompson)
From: jnr@igc.apc.org (Jim Rosenfield)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Desktop famine-fighting aids
Date: 15 Nov 92 17:22:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700239:cdp:1471700257:000:1426
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 15 09:22:00 1992


I received one e-mail from one of the readers of this conference
who threw a bunch of racist remarks along with some nast
anti-semitism at me in response to my remark here.   Maybe he
interpreted me as sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek.  THis is not the
case.

I believe that people should interact with their legislators and
others to urge provision of relief assistance to people in trouble
-- as in the case of the Somali tragedy.  THis is not because of
some concern that Africans are helpless.  However, it appears to
me that the Somalis need help.  In addition, I give some credance
to the proposition that the U.S. people are implicated or have
helped exacerbate the situation in Somalia as a result of angling
for strategic location in the "Cold War".

So, is it offensive to Africans that people in the U.S. might urge
their government to help out in this emergency?  If so, would some
one please explain to me why?

My remark about the modem comes from an interesting discussion
that wealthier people (who can afford modems and computers), etc
have a defacto advantage in influencing cultures becuaase of their
wealth.  My remark is an oblique refernce to this conversation,
attempting to illustrate that this wealth coulod conceivably be
used to make a positive impact in situations like these.  I
apologize, again, if I've stepped on any toes.  My intent to
participate in a campaign to alleviate suffering is sincere.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: yonas@ynsakgn.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: Ethiopia /non racist Italians, a joke!!
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:48:30 GMT
Organization: IBM Graphics Systems


____________________________________________________________________________
		"...Honesty and frankness makes you vulnerable.
			Be honest and frank anyway!..."   -karma
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AG System Development   |    /__/ 
32CA/652                |     \ /\.       |
Neighborhood Road       |  |\ /\__\./     |ethernet:yonas@vnet.ibm.com
Kingston, NY  12401     |  \_/      \./_   
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: martinn@mksol.dseg.ti.com (niels r martin)
Subject: Re: Scandal(s) of the day
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:25:02 GMT

In article <ccsmcs.721989676@cd4380.ufh.ac.za> ccsmcs@cd4380.ufh.ac.za (Mark Stobbs) writes:
>In <1992Nov16.085557.7143@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:
>
>>"I am flexible on details but I will not say 'yes' to a winner-takes-all
>>constitution.
>
>>"The new constitution must effectively prevent an Adolf Hitler or Idi
>>Amin from gaining power in South Africa."
>
>Or a Verwoed, Vorster, Botha, de Klerk
>
Of 'n Mandela of ander soort skelem.  Miskien is 'tsotsi' 'n beter woord.
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Niels Martin			   |                      
martinn@mksol.dseg.ti.com	   | Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat!
My opinions don't represent	   |
From: duck@nuustak.csir.co.za (Paul Ducklin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Bad joke inside -- sad but true..
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:25:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: nuustak.duck.722031883
Organization: CSIR, South AFrica
NNTP-Posting-Host: nuustak.csir.co.za


   Q: What's the latest status symbol in Jo'burg?

   A: A job.


-- 
--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--..--
Paul Ducklin                                       duck@nuustak.csir.co.za

  CSIR Computer Virus Research Lab * Box 395 * Pretoria * 0001 S Africa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: nevin@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Nick)
Subject: Re: Just a repression (was Re: Just a thought - [subject deleted]
Originator: nevin@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State University, Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:54:54 GMT


In article <BxxrLD.CMu@ddsw1.mcs.com> barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr.
Aaron Barnhart) writes:

> And I would simply add that Mr. Wohlberg understands what SA's version
> of "freedom of speech" is -- by immediately clamping arbitrary unfreedoms
> onto it -- and that makala has joyously embraced the American version,
> freedom unconditionally, that reflects the best of what this country has
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?
> to offer.
> 

And what you would simply add is simply bullshit. Even in the United States
there are certain restrictions on speech.

---nick.
-- 
Nicholas J. Nevin                 Dept. of Computer and Information Science
                                  Ohio State University
nevin@cis.ohio-state.edu          228 Bolz Hall
                                  2036 Neil Ave. Mall, Columbus OH 43210-1277
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: TODAY IN AFRICA.
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:00:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov22.150028.24008
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

nrswart@phonon.uwaterloo.ca (Nicholas R. Swart) writes:
: Most North Americans are terribly ignorant about the rest of the world
: including Africa. Not only that, what little they do know is incredibly
: biased by what they see on the television. I was always amazed when coming
: to Canada that I knew more about Canadian history and geography than
: Canadian students! I kid you not! And what little they knew of Africa was
: pure 'politically correct' rot.

Tell it like it is. Nice to see some straight shooting in this group
for a change.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SADF Admits All - Project Mweene
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:46:39 GMT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College

hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
> Gavan Tredoux writes:
 [stuff deleted]

guys cut it out. 
we are finally getting to hear some serious news here.
in the past i read with disgust how you (govan) came to the government's
defense, now that the truth about their activities are comming to light you
enlarge the string with senseless talk.  
face the issue and admit that you were wrong.  it might even be a good idea
to start another string where you guys can explore you literary skills.
this information is far more important to some of us and the garbage that
you insert in the middle is not appreciated.

phoka
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong)
Subject: African women and Education(TODAY IN AFRICA)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:31:33 GMT

Once again I watched part of TODAY IN AFRICA this morning, and here
comes more disgust. The reporters have once again made the mistake so
many out there make ... the mistake in generalization. Today there was
talk about the African woman. I agreed with the part that they are the
back-bone of African countries but have been suppressed for centuries,
but my problem came when the generalization was made that African women
'still' can't go to school, compared to the men. My mother, I know
couldn't go to school because there wasn't enough money for everyone in
her family so the boys were sent first. This was decades ago. I can't
speak for other African countries, but now in my country, even in the
villages, the boys are never sent to school 'instead' of the girls! The
children are sent to school based on their age, or progress. I resent
the fact that these reporters made it sound like today things are still
like my parents days. I can't speak for other African countries, but in
mine, today, parents insist that "all" their children go to school, and
if NBC couldn't afford to check out every issue in every country, they
should be careful about making generalizations!

Feli.
From: bk577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jane Bires Jiumaleh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: NBC from Africa
Date: 19 Nov 1992 19:34:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


If you want to respond to NBC regarding the Today Show from
Africa, write or call:
The Today Show
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10121
zip 10112
Phone:  212 664 4249
From: lforbe@elaine.ee.und.ac.za (LESLIE FORBES : THIRD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: ZIMBABWE/SA TRANSPORT
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:12:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: elaine.lforbe.3
Organization: Electronic Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, South Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc55.ee.und.ac.za

In article <1992Nov12.145901.1317@dct.ac.uk> mcspikta@dct.ac.uk writes:


>  Can anyone give me any information about surface transport links between
>Jo'burg and Zimbabwe? Does a passenger train service run via beitbridge or
>does it still go via Botswana. Any information regarding services,frequency
>etc. would be much appreciated.
>  Also how are the rains doing?
>   Thanks,   
>       Kenny Armstrong    Dundee Tech.  Scotland
There are indeed direct links between the two countries:
1.  A train service (supplied by I think SAR, but not too sure) from 
Johannesburg to Harare via the border town of Beit Bridge leaving Jo'burg 
twice a week and taking about a day and a half to arrive at the destination.
2.  There are also at least two relaible bus services that frequent the same 
route described above, as well as services going along the same route to 
Bulawayo.  TransNet, the bus division of the national transport organisation 
administers one of these services and another which we have used extensively 
is that of a privateer running a ten-seater mini-bus and is very efficient.
Addresses and numbers can be sullpied if you really need them.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Just a repression (was Re: Just a thought - [subject deleted]
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:17:43 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart) writes:
: And I would simply add that Mr. Wohlberg understands what SA's version
: of "freedom of speech" is -- by immediately clamping arbitrary unfreedoms
: onto it -- and that makala has joyously embraced the American version,
: freedom unconditionally, that reflects the best of what this country has
: to offer.
: 
: Of course, as you'll soon discover when reading Nat Hentoff's new book,
: _Free Speech for Me But Not for Thee_, this country is on its best
: behavior only every so often.

Hey, yeah, like the "American Way". 

Libel is recognized in US law as much as it is in any other.
But then how do you sue a mailserver? A beta version at that.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: ssdg6761@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Simon S. Donnelly)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: literacy in South(ern) Africa
Summary: looking for info on literacy (and orality) in South(ern) Africa
Keywords: literacy,orality,reading,teaching,south,africa
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:21:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxwC7s.KCr
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


I'm looking for any info on levels of literacy in South or Southern Africa.
I'm writing an essay for a graduate English course in the USA (although I'm in
linguistics, more specifically Bantu languages). 

This could be info on statistics about who is/isn't literate, what the various  levels of literacy are, who is teaching literacy, what's happening in rural 
areas, breakdown by country / language / age, and so on. 

Basically ANYTHING to do with literacy (or orality, and the transition between
the two). 

Thanks!



-- 
Dept of Linguistics, U. of Illinois, USA
(217) 384 1989
email: ssdg6761@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: ZIMBABWE/SA TRANSPORT
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:25:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2952.2B093638
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

In a note of <14 Nov 1992 20:48>, mcspikta@dct.ac.uk wrote:

 mau>  Can anyone give me any information about surface transport 
 mau>links between
 mau>Jo'burg and Zimbabwe? Does a passenger train service run via 
 mau>beitbridge or
 mau>does it still go via Botswana. Any information regarding 
 mau>services,frequency
 mau>etc. would be much appreciated.
 mau>  Also how are the rains doing?

Train services are the most expensive.



--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis)
Subject: Re: TODAY IN AFRICA.
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:57:54 GMT

In article <BxyEBn.CI5@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong) writes:
>
>Most North Americans think of Africa as one country - just as they
>think of North America as one country (and now and then they might concede
>there are a few snow-bound Canadians to the north :-)
>
you're certainly right that a lot of people think of the african continent
as one country, both black and white; even some self-proclaimed afro-centrics.
i remember having a discussion with one such individual who was talking the
"back to africa" line and i asked him what country he wanted to go to.  he
said it didn't matter.  while there's much to me said about unity among
african nations i don't know that a lot of african folks would buy in on
the "it doesn't matter" bit.

as far as north america goes i think that people don't think of n.a. as being
a single country, when people want to refer to the u.s. specifically they
either refer to it as 'america', or 'the states'.  i do think, however, that
people tend to view north america as being the u.s. and canada, excluding
mexico and central america, which people tend consider as being in "latin
america".

-- 
  __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il, usa
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com / att!iexist!ronald
"if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson
From: ssdg6761@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Simon S. Donnelly)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: literacy in South(ern) Africa
Summary: Looking for info on literacy levels and teaching in South(ern) Africa
Keywords: literacy,orality,reading,teaching,south,africa
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:08:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxwBLK.K4L
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I'm looking for any info on levels of literacy in South or Southern Africa.
I'm writing an essay for a graduate English course in the USA (although I'm in
linguistics, more specifically Bantu languages). 

This could be info on statistics about who is/isn't literate, what the various  levels of literacy are, who is teaching literacy, what's happening in rural 
areas, breakdown by country / language / age, and so on. 

Basically ANYTHING to do with literacy (or orality, and the transition between
the two). 

Thanks!

Please send these to me, Simon Donnelly, at: ssdg6761@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu




-- 
Simon Donnelly

**************************************************************************
phone: (217) 384 1989
From: 9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:52:58 GMT
Reply-To: ferr@cs.sun.ac.za <Johan Ferreira>
Organization: University of Stellenbosch

apj@beldin.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar) skrywe:
> : >                                            Cape Penisial (sp?).
> 
> I must say I've always had my own suspicions about Cape Point, but now
> ferris has made the source abundantly clear.  At least there's
> something to be thankful for, it could have been another penal colony.

Oos Kaap *bewe* ;)                    Eastern Cape

((< in stereo >))                     ((< in stereo >))

"Special effects doesn't have sub-titles." - me

Johan Ferreira
(ferr@cs.sun.ac.za)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american