HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu (David O. Blanchard)
Subject: Re: Could a hurricane be destroyed?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:18:00 GMT

In article <26AUG199204135771@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu>, blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu (David O. Blanchard) writes...
>In article <10429@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes...

After re-reading my posting, I noticed errors.  That's what I get for posting
so late at night.  Sigh.

>> 
>>In the 50's[?] and the 60's, _Operation Storm Fury_ was being conducted.
>>It was a field experiment in seeding hurricanes (did they also seed 
>>potential storms?). It was killed due to politics - no one wanted to
>>take the blame if something went wrong and the storm increased it's
>>intensity *after* it was seeded.
>> 
> 
>It is possible that politics entered the decision-making process, but science
>played the most important part.  The primary goal of Storm Fury was to seed
>the rain bands with AgI (silver iodide) and enhance the rain production.  The
                                                         ^^^^    
                                                         ice

>theory was that if you could increase ice production in areas outside of the
>eyewall, the increased latent heat release from condensation would be
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^      
                                                  freezing

>generated in an area more distant from the eyewall, and hopefully  a new
>eyewall would form at a larger radius with correspondingly reduced winds.
> 
>The flaw in the hypothesis lay in the fact that to use AgI and increase droplet
                                                                         ^^^^^^
                                                                          ice

>production presumes that the clouds have large amounts of supercooled water.
>SC water is simply water cooled below the freezing point, but not yet
>frozen.  Many aircraft passes through the rainbands indicated that there was
>very little SC water available.  In time, the experiment was droppped becuase
>of this flaw in the hypothesis.
> 
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|David O. Blanchard   Boulder, Colorado  blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu    |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|David O. Blanchard   Boulder, Colorado  blanchard@nsslc.gcn.uoknor.edu    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: gross@maxwell.ucsc.edu (Mike Gross)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Why do Hurricanes Travel West?
Date: 26 Aug 1992 07:11:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: maxwell.ucsc.edu

In <1992Aug26.035349.3990@physics.ucla.edu> reynolds@physics.ucla.edu (Reynolds) writes:

>In article <1992Aug25.130550.19223@hemlock.cray.com> n3884@cray.com writes:
>>I'm new to this newsgroup, so forgive me if this is in the FAQ file.
>>
>>Hurricanes begin their life in the southern hemisphere off the west coast
>>of Africa and move northwest across the equator, and keep moving in a 
>>westward pattern -- contrary to the usual west-to-east pattern of our
>>weather.
>>
>>Question1:  Why? 
>>Question2:  Does this in some way cause the circular motion of the storms?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Pete Palmer  
>>

>Answer 1: The coriolis force.
>Answer 2: Yes.

>Seriously, if the earth were not rotating, the prevailing winds would
>be from north to south (the hot air at the equator rises, and the
>cold air at the poles sinks) in the Northern Hemisphere, and from
>south to north in the Southern Hemisphere (i.e., from the poles to
>the equator.

>But the earth does rotate, and the coriolis force breaks this 
>convective cell into three cells: 1 - near the equator, the surface
>winds are from east to west.  2 - at mid-latitudes, the surface
>winds are from west to east.  3 - near the poles, the prevailing
>surface winds are again from east to west.

>Now, why the number is three and not five or even ten, I have no
>idea.  Perhaps someone could enlighten us as the the current thinking,
>if there is any.

>Anthony Reynolds
>reynolds@physics.ucla.edu

This is certainly well out of my field (I'm a cosmologist), but I thought
the number of cells had to do with the radius of curvature of the planet
surface. For example, a glance at the Voyager pictures of Jupiter will 
reveal that that planet  has on the order of a dozen different bands,
each circulating in the opposite direction of its neighbors. Saturn and
Uranus also show banded structure, but the contrast between the bands
is not so pronounced, so the pictures aren't quite so spectacular.

There are clearly visible eddies in between the bands, and this is a sign
that there is a large velocity gradient.

Corrections/clarifications are requested.

Mike Gross
Physics Board
Univ of California             GO SLUGS!!!!!
Santa Cruz, CA 95064
gross@maxwell.ucsc.edu 

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: fgk@well.sf.ca.us (Frank G Kienast)
Subject: Where to purchase barometer?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:01:26 GMT


Is it possible to purchase an electronic digital barometer for $100 or less?  
If not, where could I get a (reasonably good quality) aneroid barometer?
 
Frank Kienast
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Eye of the Hurricane
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:27:02 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, walker@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Scott Walker) wrote:
>The latest report puts the eye of Andrew at about 30nm wide.  I know that
>they eye of a hurricane is supposed to be relatively calm.  What do the 
>people on the ground see when the eye passes over head?  Blue sky?

Only during the day.  At night it would be dark.  :-)>

Sometimes there are low cumulus clouds inside.  Generally the stronger
the storm, the clearer the eye is.

>Are there birds and things flying around the inside?

Sometimes.  Birds have been know to go from Africa to New England in 
hurricanes.

>When a recon plane flies into the eye, does it push straight in at a
>right angle?

Yes, that is the easiest way.  With the wind at the back, maneuvering is
difficult.  Into the wind, manuevering is non-existent.

>Has there ever been a recon plane downed by a storm?  

Only once in the Atlantic basin, in Janet in 1955 near Swan Island.

>Has anyone out there ever ridden on one of these death-wish missions?

Yup, but it's relative safe.  Gilbert was so smooth, I feel asleep during one
pass of the eye.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: dean@coconut.rsmas.miami.edu (dean)
Subject: RSMAS is back in business
Organization: University of Miami/RSMAS
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:07:00 GMT

The Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science (RSMAS) at the 
University of Miami is open for business (almost) as usual as of
Monday, 31 August. 

Hurricane Andrew caused erosion along the campus beach, damaged the
grounds, and caused limited damage to first-floor facilities.  A small
satellite dish was dismantled by the winds and waves, leaving us
without any incoming met data.  

All buildings are in good shape, no broken windows,
and full electrical power was restored last week.  

The students, faculty and staff are safe, though some
lost their homes. 

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley)
Subject: How long can the actual hurricane last above land?
Originator: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:26:08 GMT

Hello

This might be a stupid question, but I'm a chemical engineer not a
meteorologist.  I know the basics of how a hurricane operates.  So, once
over land, how long before the hurricane actually becomes just a bad storm?
I know this will vary greatly, but what is average and what is exceptional?
Or am I completely off base and a hurricane can survive on land?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alongley@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211 x3816
home: (519) 746-5747
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: hamm@weejordy.physics.mun.ca (Craig Hamm)
Subject: Gill's book
Organization: Ocean Sciences Centre
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:41:54 GMT


	I used Gill's book in an Ocean Dynamics course in 1990, graduate
	level.  It was excellent, and not one in the class had any 
	complaints.  This was my intro text, and one I will never
	sell.  It is well written, and has plenty of clear illustrations
	and photos.  

	Highly recommended.

-- 
  
    Craig Hamm, 		From 'Viz', Victor Pratt, the stupid twat
    Memorial University	        Biker: "My bike's got a flat, Vic"
    DoD #1500,           	Vic:   "Really? Whereabouts is it living?"
    '81 Maxim 650 
    ----
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Windchill formula: Not for Andrew!
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:23:30 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada

Jean Orloff writes
> >>>>> On Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:11:10 GMT,  
hardie@herald.usask.ca (Peter Hardie) said:
> Peter> weather office.  Note that for windspeeds below a  
few km/hr the
> Peter> formula tends to give unrealistic values (e.g. for  
0km/hr at
> Peter> -40C the chill is only 884 W/m^2). This is because  
the formula
> 
> Peter> WC = (6.114*sqrt(u) + 12.12 - 0.3222u)*(33-T)
> 
> Peter> Where WC is in W/m^2 u is windspeed in km/hr T is  
air
> Peter> temperature in degrees C.
> 
> I can understand the (33-T): this is just the difference  
of
> temperature between the skin and the air.
> But are you sure about the sign of the linear piece? It  
gives nonsense
> for wind speeds>100km/hr or so: WC starts decreasing with  
u. So I
> strongly suspect this formula to be inadequate for  
Andrew!
> 
> I would rather have seen a positive linear term for the  
convection
> minus some correction (maybe in sqrt(u)) accounting for
> vaso-constriction which tries to resist too high heat  
losses.
> 

I thought you'd made a mistake, but plotting the critter,  
you're right, it maxes at about 90 kph, and reaches 0 at  
about 450 kph.  (I know, unrealistic, but it's a useful  
test for any model is to see what it predicts for  
extremes.)

The model never did pretend to take into account human  
physiology.  I think they got original data by putting a  
sealed can of water out in the wind, and seeing how much  
heat they had to pump in to maintain the water at 33.

Humans produce heat at a rate of 100 watts (not moving) to  
1600 watts (trained athletes only).  If we suppose moderate  
exercise we can call it 400 watts.  Skin area is somewhere  
between 1 and 2 m^2.  So you are disipating 200 watts per  
sq m.  Function of clothing then is to slow down the wind  
enough to bring the WC + conduction through the insulation  
down to that figure.
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: himacanes worse than hericanes
Date: 27 Aug 1992 14:14:12 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Aug25.210839.5080@hou.amoco.com> zawr02@hou.amoco.com writes:
>In article 28812@unocal.com, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>The last few destructive hurricanes have been named after males- Hugo, Bob,
>>and Andrew.  (Odds are one in eight of a three male sequence happening
>>if half the names are male.)
>
>Don't forget Gilbert.

   Gilbert was retroactively dedicated to this group's favorite
windbag, so counts as a female.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: jackb@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jack Brindle)
Subject: Re: Anti-Hurricane in the North Atlantic?
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 05:12:30 GMT

In article <tlm1.714848863@Ra.MsState.Edu> tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:
>I know very little about meteorology, but find storms and such interesting.
>
>On Tuesday (8/25) afternoon I was watching The Weather Channel to see
>Andrew churning around off the the Gulf Coast.  The little weather-person
>was showing a nice satellite sequence of Andrew spinning around.  I noticed
>that in the North Atlantic there was another large spiral of clouds.  This
>spiral had a diameter many (10?) times larger than Andrew, but was spinning
>in the opposite (clockwise) direction.  Heck, it even had a visible eye in
>the center.  The weather-person must have noticed that my attention had
>drifted over to this new, more impressive storm and quickly said that the
>North Atlantic disturbance was non-tropical in nature and nothing to worry
>about.
>
Take another look at the weather pics over the last four days. At that time,
the area was a weak frontal system. As Andrew moved across the Bahamas, it
started feeding the system at its western end. The system seemed to break
off as Andrew passed over Florida, at least the clouds became discontinuous.
In the several days since, the system has closed off and is going tropical.
The latest Atlantic forecasts show it potentially becoming a new tropical
storm over the next few days. So, it is quite possible that Andrew may have
actually given birth to a sibling during his all-too-long lifetime...

Oh, and it indeed never did turn clockwise. Apparently an optical illusion
at the time, but the pictures show the real story...


-- 
==========================================================
Jack Brindle
ham radio: wa4fib
internet: jackb@mdd.comm.mot.com
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Updates?
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:27:46 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Aug25.135915.29442@hou.amoco.com> zawr02@hou.amoco.com writes:
]Hi,
]
]Does anyone know if the hurricane updates from the Hurricane Center are 
]available electronically?  Any of the popular methods would work, email, 
]anonymous ftp, or even here on USENET.  Thanks in advance!

I get them off of Compuserve in near-real-time.
-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
"Modern liberals are the termites in the structure of our society."
  John Moore
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: reynolds@physics.ucla.edu (Reynolds)
Subject: Re: Why do Hurricanes Travel West?
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 03:53:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.130550.19223@hemlock.cray.com> n3884@cray.com writes:
>I'm new to this newsgroup, so forgive me if this is in the FAQ file.
>
>Hurricanes begin their life in the southern hemisphere off the west coast
>of Africa and move northwest across the equator, and keep moving in a 
>westward pattern -- contrary to the usual west-to-east pattern of our
>weather.
>
>Question1:  Why? 
>Question2:  Does this in some way cause the circular motion of the storms?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Pete Palmer  
>

Answer 1: The coriolis force.
Answer 2: Yes.

Seriously, if the earth were not rotating, the prevailing winds would
be from north to south (the hot air at the equator rises, and the
cold air at the poles sinks) in the Northern Hemisphere, and from
south to north in the Southern Hemisphere (i.e., from the poles to
the equator.

But the earth does rotate, and the coriolis force breaks this 
convective cell into three cells: 1 - near the equator, the surface
winds are from east to west.  2 - at mid-latitudes, the surface
winds are from west to east.  3 - near the poles, the prevailing
surface winds are again from east to west.

Now, why the number is three and not five or even ten, I have no
idea.  Perhaps someone could enlighten us as the the current thinking,
if there is any.

Anthony Reynolds
reynolds@physics.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Eye of the Hurricane
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:27:02 GMT

ca> Char Aznabul

ca> Historically speaking, when was the first recon mission into a hurricane
ca> or typhoon flown?

  Courtesy the NWS:

    "No one had deliberately flown an airplane into a hurricane before
     the afternoon of July 27, 1943, when Army Air Corps Major Joseph P.
     Duckworth flew a single-engined AT-6 into a hurricane off Galveston.
     he made the trip twice that day, the first time taking navigator Lt.
     Ralph O'Hair, the second, taking weather officer Lt. William Jones-
     Burdick.  There have been "Hurricane Hunters" ever since."


--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Could a hurricane be destroyed?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:44:00 GMT

Sure, just have a butterfly flap its wings in the antipode the right way.

(In reference to the MIT prof that proved that weather prediction was
chaotic.  He used a metaphor that a butterfly flapping its wings in one
hemisphere might trigger the initial condition that creates a storm on the
other side of the world.)
Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:3006 sci.environment:11070
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.environment
Subject: RE: Exploiting instability (was Re: Atmospheric energy levels)
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:54:11 GMT
Followup-To: sci.geo.meteorology
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) wrote:
>At any rate, I hope it doesn't come about soon -- I'd like to
>witness a hurricane 

I know three million people who would give anything to switch places with
you.

>-- given the folks who said they would
>sacrifice their firstborn or signifcant body parts to be able to
>fly into a hurricane.

It's really not that exciting.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Maples are yellow in Denver
Keywords: autumn trees color early?
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:22:48 GMT
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.


I don't know if this is early or not. I think it is. I don't remember
any trees yellowing this early. Usually it starts after Labor Day.
-- 
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.  
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: zawr02@hou.amoco.com (Andrew W. Robinson)
Subject: Re: himacanes worse than hericanes
Reply-To: zawr02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:08:39 GMT

In article 28812@unocal.com, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>
>Time for silly post of the day.
>The last few destructive hurricanes have been named after males- Hugo, Bob,
>and Andrew.  (Odds are one in eight of a three male sequence happening
>if half the names are male.)

Don't forget Gilbert.
---

Andrew Robinson
--------------------------------------------------------------
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since
it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has
a mind to do. - Benjamin Franklin
From: david.carlson@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: particle drift
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:31:13 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

In reference to the reply from Jeff Masters

  Newsgroup: sci.geo.meteorology
  Message-ID: <dkl-NC@engin.umich.edu>
     Subject: particle drift

JM>There are a number of air parcel trajectory programs written to trace back
JM>the origin of an airmass. Typically, these programs trace the air back over
JM>72 hours, with a horizontal error of several hunded kilometers. NCAR has a
JM>version that traces trajectories along an isentropic surface; NOAA has one
JM>that uses the mixed layer (surface to 1st inversion) or along a constant
JM>pressure surface. We've used the NOAA model for over 10 years here at the
JM>University of Michigan to track air pollution.

Can you give me some more information as to the source of these programs?
Do either run on DOS based machines or UNIX only?  Any other alternatives?

JM>My guess is that the enhanced levels of radioactivity the folks in the
JM>UK are seeing when high acid rain events are observed is because coal
JM>contains a fair amount of radioactive substances, so you are seeing the
JM>effects of coal burning, not nuclear bomb tests.

This has been our feeling for some time now but we need to find ways to
verify it.  There is a rumour floating about that cheap deep mine coal
from Southeast Asia is being imported.  This coal supposedly contains
not only a high sulphur content but also a high Thorium ### (the number
escapes me) content.  This, if true, would account for the coincidence of
gamma peaks and high acid rain.  It would help to be able to show where
it comes from.

Any more feedback that anyone can add?


-<--David--N.Yorks--UK-->-
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #12080 ~ 
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
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Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2937 sci.environment:10913