HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:40:38 GMT


In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes...
>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
>to see what people on the net think of his views.
> 
>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.
> 
>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, 
>and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
>earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
>The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
>among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
>control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
>admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
>technological
>capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
>by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
>power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
>social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
>public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we
>now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not
>necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the
>*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those
>in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental
>secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.**
> 
>That's the quote. 
> 
>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
> 
>Regards, Lou Crago
> 

Lou,

I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
this ... waiting for it.  

There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... 

mary stanley
From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Vallee's Revelations
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:55:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO


 > Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for
 > much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group
 > noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in
 > the UFO phenomenon.
 >
 > Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take
 > one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their
 > participants.  Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people
 > that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not
 > have.  Then he asks the hard questions.
 >
 > For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out
 > the garbage?"  "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites
 > picked any traces of this base?" etc.
 >
 > Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason
 > for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of
 > Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges.  However, the
 > reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation
 > campaign cannot be firmly grasped.
 >
 > So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your
 > kill file is getting larger and larger.

I second this, and wish to add a couple of comments.  Although most people 
seem to react negatively to Vallee and his theories, I feel that he is one of 
the most intelligent researchers and thinkers in the field in a very long 
time, and ranks right up with the likes of Allen Hynek and James McDonald. 
The reason is that Jacques has attempted to look at the phenomenon from a much 
larger perspective than the narrow perspectives we see so much of today.

Mike

--  
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston)
Subject: Re: Intelligent life
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:27:01 GMT

nmt@ccc.amdahl.com wrote:
: 
:      The surest sign that there are other intelligent life forms out there
: is that they never tried to contact us earthling.  :-)
: 
	Nor, indeed, to this newsgroup.
: 
: 
: 
: -- I think this is from Calvin & Hobbes --
-- 
Conrad Leviston	 | Got to find a brightness in the soul,
mongoose@yoyo.	 | Not look outside to find out where we are,
cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, 
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: What Do You Think?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:34:57 GMT

I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much
to see what people on the net think of his views.

This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director
and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared
as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7,
Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7.

He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, 
and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the
earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public.
The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability
among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional
control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to
admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and
technological
capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived
by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional
power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and
social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the
public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we
now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not
necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the
*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those
in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental
secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.**

That's the quote. 

So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization
as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.

Regards, Lou Crago
From: MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Zaxxon
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:41:54 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21


	Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning!


	I am Zaxxon.  I have found the Florida Everglades and am currently
imbibingavailable swamp gas and will be releasing it over the Nashville
and Lousville area on October 3rd.  Meanwhile, I must warn you!

Warning: Do not light a match between the hours of 700 and 1800 hours
on the 3rd of October.

	
	Preview:  My next mission is to somehow reinstate Perot back to
the elections. This we can greatly profit from.  

Warning 2:  This second warning is out to Clinton and Bush!  Due to
		unexpected favors toward Ross Perot, you will be 
		soaked in C8H6O8+N3(OH) at vrious intervals during the
		Southern debate.

							
End Message: Zaxxon $567.S3453@world#879.4
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Kill File (Help!)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:39:09 GMT

Help!  How do I initiate a kill file?  I'm on a VAX system, and I can't
seem to get my kill file to work... and believe me, there are a lot of
files I don't want to browse through on this group!  Anyone out there
have a clue?

Thanks, in advance

Kellie
(internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu)
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Dr. James Harder in Berkely Next Month
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:22:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I just remembered that there is going to be a symposium on ET Contact
in Berkely, CA on Oct. 10th. I forget all the details, and can't find
the original post that was made here several weeks ago. If some
one has it, please repost.

My friend just called and reminded me to send in the $30 before the
6th, so that I get a free educational video out of the deal. I think
the door price is higher too, but not sure.
I didn't get a phone # from her, but the address to send money is :

Berkely Symposium
ExtraTerrestrial Contact
P.O Box 9073
Berkely, CA 94709-9073


I remember the original flyer said to bring a sack lunch so that we could
all socialize and connect at lunch time on the grounds. I don't
remember the exact location for the conference either, but it starts at
10am and there is limited parking, so get there early for free parking.

Hope someone can post more details. Dr. Harder is one of the most interesting
researchers I have ever had the opportunity to listen to, and I am looking
forward to hearing what he has to say about his latest findings.

Jeff-
From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: It's almost time to stop.
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:50:10 GMT
Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)

Dear all: the voting period ends at 00:00 GMT, Wednesday 30 September.
That is, in a few hour's time. Votes sent before midnight (GMT) will
be counted when they arrive, but votes sent after midnight will be
discarded. Results will be announced in a few days' time to make sure
that any delayed votes will be received.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Keywords: Mars
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:58:35 GMT


There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....


Simon
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.flame
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:36:58 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets

According to joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller):
>If the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount
>of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount
>of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san
>francisco (maroney@toad.com).

Maroney?

He'll probably make both of you pay.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
From: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:09:38 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.


 
>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization
>>as we know it.  What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now?
>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs
>>and Visitors are real?  I can't quite make up my mind.  Let's have some
>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are.
>> 
>I don't think people today would get very upset at all.  As a matter of fact,
>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like
>this ... waiting for it.  
>
>There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our
>systems.  I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people
>a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... 

Thats true. I imagine that there would be people who couldn't deal with it,
and would fall back on religion, madness or violence. However, in the main,
I think it would be the biggest advance in history and would provide the
kick in the pants mankind needs to put an end to the petty and meaningless
conflicts which feature all too regularly through our history, and give us
something to look up to.
On the other hand, it would be the end of nationalism and governments as we
know them, and while the populace would probably get behind that, I'm pretty
sure that those in power wouldn't be too keen, hence the alledged cover-up.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens
(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power
politics and policy, which is equally unlikely.

______________________________________________________________________________
| Ian Taylor (x4097)	|			     | imt@cel.crosfield.uk   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Re: Vote - final results
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results
Organization: Netcom - All the News, All the Time
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:21:58 GMT

Now that the process has run its course, it's time for congratulations
to the new Spokesman for Earth, and a hearty "Nice try" to all the
other candidates who were as dust under the wheels of the inexorable
Kibological Leadership.  I'm sure we can put the trust of the peoples of
Earth in the hands and feet of our new Spokesman.

Kibo will be permitted to include "Spokesman for Earth" on his resume,
his business cards, and on any campaign material he might produce in
aid of the upcoming US elections.

Speech!

-- 
Rick Gordon      | "Often in error, never in doubt." 
rickg@netcom.com |   --- Universal Marketing Department motto
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 06:37:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Dear Folks: I just got a phone call from R. Stanley, the person who
took me on the tour of the 30,000 year old city.  He says he has reports
of a person who has a real fresh dinosaur bird (pterodactyl) head also
reports of live  dinosaurs. I never have found out about the Unicorn
research that has been going on lately.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time
Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets
Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch)
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 13:09:22 GMT


What is the approximate size of the "face" feature?  


Mike Lynch
mdl@oscar.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: balbondj@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Stone Cold Gentleman)
Subject: Greetings
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:54:07 GMT

     Greetings Eartlings, I am Brogedulakigthorn ma Toonet of the 34th planet in the megatooth galaxy.  I will be invading your miserable planet this week.  Those that wish to visit me and fuck some alien women please leave a reply.  But I warn you.  I am going to destroy this planet and all earthlins next wed. night.  Look out.  Only those that vote for Clinton shall be saved and taken to my ship!   Be ware I will come.
From: elite@igc.apc.org (Elite Enterprises)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: CHICAGO BBS IS HOT
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:11:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700007:000:61
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite    Oct  4 11:11:00 1992


THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS 312/604-8161
24 HOURS
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS!
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:56:34 GMT
Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe

In article <66960@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes:
> 
> I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens,  we could
> get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens.
> Has anyone else heard this?  I think I heard it from G. Green so I am
> not sure how true it is.

I guess that this law is against talking to aliens in US territory, or do
they also apply it if an US citizen talks to aliens anywhere in the world?
In any case, there is no way it can be used agains me here, for example
(except, of course, if I apply for a visa).

Maybe we should hold another vote for a Non-US-citizen Spokesman for Earth,
just in case this law really exists?
From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What Do You Think?
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:46:03 GMT
Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes:

>  How  is  our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this?  For
>him  it is a personal  CATASTROPHE!  Yes, he would  like  to learn the
>secrets of the universe,  but his  life is  in ruins.  Superconduction
>theory is now irrelevant,  childlike.   His  scientific and  financial
>position has  evaporated.  The  next  day  in  a graduate seminar, his
>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when
>it is now all useless drivel.  And they're right.

There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves"
angle.  Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"?  At least
we can say that we did on our own, and aren't beholden to the aliens forever.
I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien
technology, even if it makes their research obselete.  If our hypothetical
Standford luminary is the only person (or one of a select few) that have any
hope of understanding the alien technology, his position of power has not
evaporated at all.  If however he is just a suit, getting on committees due to
political power, then it's time to hand over the reigns to someone more
capable anyway.

You must crawl before you walk.  Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools
even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect.  It is
still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian mechanics,
and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian mechanics.  The
current education system can form just as good a basis for alien technology as
it does for human technology.

We don't need to treat alien technology as a mysterious "gift from the Gods".
We'll make better use of it if we understand how it works, and develop our own
versions.  I think most people would agree that knowing how the gadgets work
is a good protection against the day the aliens don't like us any more, or we
don't like them.

Cheers,

Rhys.
--
Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia.
rhys@cs.uq.oz.au  "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mars probe?
Keywords: Mars
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:44:20 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes:


=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program
=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously
=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in
=>1989 or 90.  The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons,
=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo....

Mars?

=>Simon

FoFP
From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Reminder - vote!
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:20:05 GMT
Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli)
Organization: The Alternative Universe

Dear all: I received a number of votes, but I believe this is less than
1% of the readers of alt.alien.visitors... at the time I am writing this,
there are just under 29 hours left to vote, and counting.

Remember: to vote reply by email to this article and add the line:

	Vote: (whoever you want to vote)

somewhere in the text. Do not worry too much if you sent already your vote,
and you didn't follow these instruction: this only means I'll have to add
the vote by hand - do not resend it. If you follow these instructions,
however, I'll have to spend less time on it. Thanks.
Xref: sparky alt.alien.visitors:7062 alt.conspiracy:10871 alt.politics.perot:1705
From: kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Subject: **GREY OCTOBER**
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:16:01 GMT
Reply-To: kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar)
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory




      HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
OCTOBER SURPISE????

You Fools! Perot is a Grey.
How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech.
Why did he suddenly decide to run?
Why is he so secretive?
Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President?
Why is he so scared of the press?
Why does he want to hook up the country electronically?
Who is he really reporting to?

Is he really running for office? of course he is!!

I think it is clear what his plans were.
He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion.
And kick back with a Miller in a human free world.

Scared Yet?
You should be!


(reposted from a previous article)