HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Exaggerations of Ethnic Characteristics Re: What does Arthur Hu
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:17:27 GMT

dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang) writes:
|First of all, I agree that it was very un-PC (new word!) of me to claim
|that the jews "control" the media/government, but they certainly are having
|it a lot better than the other minority groups (even some majority groups)..

PC or otherwise, it is a significant exaggeration to go from "jewish
people appear to have greater influence in some areas and on some issues
than would be expected from their population" to "jewish people control
the government and media".  Such exaggerations tend to play into fear
mongering which tends to be detrimental to the group in question.  I am
sure you are aware of the suspected limiting quotas placed on asian people
in college admissions; the same type of thing, only more explicit, was
done to jewish people when they were perceived as "taking over the
colleges".

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
From: nyt@nyxfer.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: M.L.King Day Rally:Jobs & Justice/N
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:33:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:ouoVwB2w165w@nyxfer.uucp:56431926:000:1201
Nf-From: nyxfer.uucp!nyt    Jan  4 17:33:00 1993


Subject: M.L.King Day Rally:Jobs & Justice/NYC
From: nyxfer!nyt (NY Transfer News)


 Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit


                       RALLY AGAINST RACISM

                     MONDAY JANUARY 18  4-6pm
                 Herald Square 34th St. & 6th Ave

                        SPEAKERS AND MUSIC

 Join the rally against racism on Martin Luther King's birthday.
                  Let's stand together to say: 

        NY needs Jobs, Healthcare, Housing, and Education.
           Stop Racist Violence, Stop Police Brutality

                   Stop attacks on immigrants
                Stop attacks on Lesbians and Gays
                 Stop nazi attacks on synagogues
             Unity in the fight for Jobs and Justice

         Sponsored by the Movement for a Peoples Assembly
                   for info call (212) 633-6646




+ This article may not be re-sold or repackaged as part of any +
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From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: The Sabotage of Malcolm X
Date: 6 Jan 1993 09:34:54 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <a0c=sk+@engin.umich.edu>,
Michael F.  Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
cluelessly replies to my article <1idmnlINN2el@morrow.stanford.edu>
Gabrielle Daniels, >HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu:
.
>>Women of color of
>>the feminista stripe always tell the white feminists that just
>>because one is a woman, it don't mean she got the RIGHT politics.
>
>Let me get this straight, White female feminists are inherently politically
>uncorrect?   I always knew us White males are a lost cause at ever doing
>anything correctly, but I didn't know my feminist (White) sisters cann't
>hack it also.  But it makes sense, you know, White == evil.
>
.
.
You said "inherently" unPC.  I never said anything of the kind.  Nor
have I insinuated  that because white feminists are white, they're
evil.
.
When women of color speak of women, they mean everyone of any color.
 But when white women speak of women, they mean themselves.
.
When a famous black woman writer went to an art exhibit of feminist
artists, she looked, of course, to see the sisters represented.
There were none. When she asked the white curators why, they
replied, "It's a women's show."
.
Black women aren't WOMEN?  But of course, these white girls
represent themselves as PC, but they're really talking status quo.
White women are real women, while women of color are just adjuncts,
outriders, maybes. I've seen this in lit crit, I've seen this in
feminist politics and the history of feminism in this country is
fraught with how white women like Susan Anthony and Alice Paul have
fallen prey to own racism.
.
Case in point: Frederick Douglass.  My man was kept from attending
a feminist conference--and he was pro-feminist and had married one
white woman--because he was black, in the 1890s just before he died.
Reason: the leaders didn't want to piss off the Southern women
delegates.
.
Friedan and Greer, among others, fought against the inclusion of
black and other women of color because supposedly the movement
wasn't about race.  Greer especially wrote a rather pissy letter
back to me in The Atlantic magazine when her book, "The Obstacle
Race" about women artists was published.  I had examined her book
and found nada sisters and wrote back about said fact.
.
(And if you wanna look that one up, check out The Atlantic in 1979
or 1980.)
.
I've met a few white women feminists who just don't talk the
lingo--they actually do it.  Otherwise, myself and many other black
feminist sisters look with askance at any of this chest (or breast)
thumping about the poor white sisters.  Unless the girlfriends
actually transform themselves and realize that just because she's
white, it doesn't mean  she's immune to the machinations of the
white male racist, sexist, classist and homophobic patriarchy, there
will still be problems. In other words, they continue to be part of
The Problem.
.
Off my soapbox.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: What is this thing called subtle racism ?
Originator: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:22:41 GMT

I have read many posts from both AfAms and whites which talk about the
presence of "subtle racism". I have a problem with this since I don't
think that racism today is any more subtle than it was previously. The
forms in which it manifests itself is different but subtle ??? 
     People have been quoting statistic after statistic which
show that AfAms are still catchin hell. Many whites have tried to defend
their various positions by qualifying it with..."I know that subtle racism
still exist but...." I watch the news every night and you could swear that
not one single white person shot anyone that day. We all know that this is
not possible but I see a black face in handcuffs every night. Hell, I'm
from Los Angeles and didn't know anything about Chicago when I came here.
I didn't know where the AfAms lived, whites, jews,etc... but after I watched
the news, I knew that the AfAms lived on the south and west sides of 
Chicago.
     What's the point. Quite frankly just because whites don't ride around
in white sheets and lynch AfAms or don't spit on us at lunch counters, etc..
doesn't mean that racism is any less apparent today than it was yesterday. The
form has changed but the outcome is still the same.
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: The Simpsons and what you should know.
Summary: Afrocentric View-Simpsons
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:30:11 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

Are the Simpsons a cartoon just to be enjoyed for the loony situations and
characters that it entails or is it something more? What Do you think?
Ask yourself, these questions, and maybe you'll think differently:

Q:What color are the Simpsons?
A:Yellow, like what type of people(Asians, Korean, Japanese, Asiatic Types)

Q:What hairstyle does Bart wear?
A:Dreds, like what type of people(African-Americans)

Q:Who runs the local 7-11's?
A:Who do you think??

Q:What type of people do Bart and almost everyone in the town represent?
A:Everyone, except for Caucasians. I know there a few Caucasians, but not many.

Q:Who runs the power plant and the whole town? Remember he controls the power.
A:Two Causian men, the boss and Mr. Smithers.

Now, I ask the question again, are the Simpsons really just a cartoon, or do
the Simpsons describe something much greater?

                        Chad J Glover
           glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu      
       Drexel University Software Testing Lab
   If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he
                        isn't fit to live. --MLK
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Planning Black History Month Programs
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:45:40 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

I'm glad that Black people have a history that existed for one month of the
year, as if, we were brain dead for the other 11 months? Why is that Black
achievement in science, engineering, etc., totally ignored throughout the rest
of the year. When is the American system of education going to throw in some
blacks into the history of America, that is, other than slavery? America might
be surprised at the POSITIVE results.
 
                        Chad J Glover
           glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu      
       Drexel University Software Testing Lab
   If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he
                        isn't fit to live. --MLK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Re: What does Arthur Hu mean to *me*
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:53:56 GMT

dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang) writes:
|waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman) writes:
|>dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang) writes:
|>>(yes there are still some racist assholes out
|>>there that hate jews, but face it: the jews have made it. they control the
|>>media/government)
|>
|>First, if "the jews" control the media, then why is it Xmas specials 
|>that are replayed ad nauseum during December?  And if "the jews"
|>control the government, why are there no more than a handful of Jewish 
|>congresstypes and, as yet, no Jewish president?  
|
|Well, if you look at it this way: many universities include Jewish holidays
|like Hannika (spelling)

Which universities?  I can't think of any, even for more important
holidays.

|>>Well said... Asian Americans should be cautious, but should never take the
|>>offensive and prejudice against other races.
|>
|>Good advice, there.  How about taking it yourself?   
|
|I don't see how I'm not taking it myself

Would you find it offensive if someone complained that the asians
were taking over all of the colleges and universities, even though
that's not true (overrepresented yes, taking over no)?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american
From: brs@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blanche R. Steppe)
Subject: Re: The Black Man's Burden.
Originator: brs@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:35:24 GMT


 glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.234230.25202@cs.wm.edu> sunny@me.cs.wm.edu (John S. Egbo)
>writes:
>>I think that it is time that the Africans and the Africans in Diaspora
>>reading Soc.Culture.African and Soc.Culture.African.American sink some
>>teeth into THE issue connecting all Black people.  What is the Black
>>Man's Burden?
>>    "His [the African's] chances of effective resistance have been
>>     steadily dwindling with the increasing perfectibility in the 
>>     killing power of modern armament.  Gunpowder broke the 
>>     effectiveness of his resistance to slave trade although he
>>     continued to struggle. He has ...
>>
>>     ... He cannot successfully oppose members of his own race
>>     free from these impediments, employed by his white adversaries,
>>     and trained in all the diabolical devices of scientific massacre.
>>     And although ...

>Hmmm, now we're talking business. The Black Man's Burden is one that seems
>endless, but I think it can be broken down into a couple sectors: Political,
>Social, Cultural, and Economic. Let's define and go through each of these.

[lots of stuff deleted]

Chad,

Now that you know the problem(s), what are YOU doing about solutions?

You list some items that I agree with and some that I disagree with.  However,
I would like to hear what you and others are doing to correct "things" that
you think are wrong.  What have you accomplished?

Blanche
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: valor@donner.cc.bellcore.com (crawford,quintal d)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 15:53:47 GMT
Summary: Chad, you ignorant slut

In article <1993Jan7.141507.3832@netnews.noc.drexel.edu>, glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu writes:
> >The "study" examined over 5.3 million mortgage applications and did not
> >find one where an applicant was denied a mortgage because of their
> >race. The "study" did find that a poor applicant was more often denied
> >a mortgage than a wealthy applicant and that more of the Blak applicants
> >in the "study" were poor than wealthy. 
> First, spell Black Correctly, not Blak and why do you use the term Black
> instead of African-American, why Caucasian and not whit?
Chad, how he chooses to spell _black_ is his (our) business.  Is it not
relevant to you that he has that right? the right of self-expression.
Stop living in the past--or wherever you *live*!  If Caucasoids want
to incorrectly define themselves as "caucasians" or "whit[s]," spell it
with an _x_--more power 'em! Maybe in the process, they would find a better,
pro-adaptive group concept in the process as we are striving to.
Another thing:  For 400+ years, you people have tried to control our
identity thru how we use language--your languages.  I personally like
English because it has inherently the flexibility to grow and adapt
to the speaker.  In this sense, IMHO, you disrespect both your European
heritage and your American heritage. I bet you also object to Black Foots
who call themselves Indians. The people to whom the loans are denied weren't
discriminated against because of a missing _c_ on their applications--
unless that _c_ stood for _caucasian_!
> 
>                         Chad J Glover
>            glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu      
>        Drexel University Software Testing Lab
>    If a man hasn't found something he will die for, he
>                         isn't fit to live. --MLK


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Re: Why we go for non-black women: (OH PLEEZ!!)
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Distribution: world 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:12:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.092248.4917@memstvx1.memst.edu> mcsnewton@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>
>***
>This whole speel about brothas dating others and so on is really getting tired!
>I perm my hair because for me its a WHOLE lot easier to manage than the kinky
>stuff and I would never change the way I present myself for any
>psuedo-Afrocentric brother!!  

Sounds good to me. Perm your hair to satisfy two people: You and
yourself. 


>Look, date whomever you want, as long as you are happy...BOTTOM LINE!  If 
>someone else has a problem with the way you dress, the people you date,or
>WHATEVER for that matter...it's THEIR problem.  Personally, I think people
>like that (those with the problem) are insecure about themselves and need to
>get it together before they downgrade someone else. 
>
>Hey, but that's just one sister's opinion, right??  Right!!!

Like I said before, I wish OTHER sisters felt that way. We can't round
up all the sisters and brainwash them into accepting it, but if they
did decide that they are not in the position to s#$t on someone for
who they date or what they wear, I would not have posted that
article.


  --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  --Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.5--
  USENET Warlord / IRC Channel Owner / Accounts WorldWide / Home Login!
	      (Whooboy that means LOTSA time for all this?)
                  The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Re: What about non-black men for black?
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:30:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.163420.17310@Princeton.EDU> bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.233851.16741@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> xuyy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>>I am a brother from the continent, as curious as ever about all the
>>hullabaloo about brothers going for white girls. I'm wondering 
>>whether there is as much fuss about white boys dating black girls.
>>I also wonder why it (white boys dating black girls) does not 
>>occur with as much frequency as the opposite.
>>
>Here is my theory (admittedly containing lots of generalizations):
>
>Most men prefer submissive women.  The stereotypical feeling is that black
>women are the least submissive of all women and Asian women are the most
>submissive.  Therefore, black men date white women and white men date
>Asian women in larger numbers than the reverse.  This leaves black women
>and Asian men sitting at home on Saturday nights.  Maybe they should date
>each other. 

Generalizations again..

My girlfriend is hardly submissive. She has a bite that can be most
easily seen whenever she is referred to as a "girl" (or whenever women
in general are referred to in that manner, in front of her). She is,
under any situation, anything but submissive. She thinks on her own,
speaks her own mind, and has more Clinton jokes than I do, and that's
very, very hard to do. 

I date stronger-willed women - but not assholes.  
 

>Barbara Vaughan


  --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  --Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.5--
  USENET Warlord / IRC Channel Owner / Accounts WorldWide / Home Login!
	      (Whooboy that means LOTSA time for all this?)
                  The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: The Sabotage of Malcolm X
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:50:20 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

trammell@engin.umich.edu (James Trammell) wrote:
:
:Lee didn't set out to depict a Christ figure, so he didn't fail.  He
:set out to show a man who just plain wasn't afraid to say and do the things
:that needed to be said and done.  For the most part I think he succeeded,
:but just like with any movie, READING THE BOOK(S) FIRST IS ESSENTIAL.
:A movie can never go into the depth a book can.

Well, reading it is essential.  Even if it's *after* you saw the
movie.  (I understand from the booksellers that it's having just
that effect.  A moderate bookstore flop, Malcolm isn't.)

Aaron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: separate but equal???
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:48:10 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

cr614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Monee C. Kidd) wrote:
:
:Hello, I am new to the whole Usenet concept, so bear with me if
:I stumble. ;) I am most pleased to see this discussion; in all my
:years of cruising the electronic airwaves, I've never before seen
:a discussion area devoted to the issues of the African American -
:at least not one of this magnitude. When I was on CompuServe, a
:friend and I wrote a proposal for starting an African-American
:forum. We were told that this 'sort of thing' was not allowed,
:that CompuServe doesn't exclude people from its forums (my friend
:and I never planned to restrict access to the forum, they merely
:assumed.)

Well, unfortunately that's CompuServe for you.  They didn't get to
1,000,000 paying $ub$criber$ by being controversial.  (And to folx
like that, their *idea* of "controversial" is by and large not
very.)

CompuServe is for computer people, shoppers, consumers.  It's most
definitely not for anyone with a political bone in her/his body.

Now if you got some bucks to blow, consider getting an account on
PeaceNet.  Send mail to support@igc.org and ask them about forums
for African Americans.  At $10/month + $5/hour on-line, they're not
the worst deal out there .. by far.  I spend about $12-15 a month
on PeaceNet.

Aaron
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Why we go for non-black women
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:54:28 EST
Distribution: world ,soc
Organization: Cornell University

Steve Chaney (the guy who started it all) writes:

> 4) I posted this article to hurt some feelings in response. I wanted
>    to drag you extremists out and take you on in a pitched battle
>    because I'm tired of you hitting us, then ducking out of dodge
>    when a response comes, so I just hit you folks first. 
> 
> The people I was looking for a conflict with, were:
> 1) Intolerant militant sisters. 
> 2) If not them, then at least an intolerant brother. 
> 3) If not them, then at least some riff-raff out there that
> thinks they're hot enough to put the opposition down. 
>=======================================================

Among many things, Mr. Chaney seems to dislike militancy.
He also dislikes Malcolm X.

A militant is someone who wants to hurt other people,
either with a gun for physical hurt, or with words for
emotional hurt.  It's the warrior mentality at heart.

Malcolm X usually had a militant mentality.  He said many
things that were meant to hurt the feelings of white people,
or the feelings of certain blacks who he disagreed with.
No doubt it was vengeful payback for his past suffering.

This trait is also clearly shared by Mr. Chaney.  Funny to
think that he's got something deep in common with Malcolm X.
He's got the precise traits that he despises most.

Some people said they pitied him, but then they turn right
around and say "I showed the post to a sister...we laughed at him"
Others were more blunt and just flatly dumped acid on him, without
paying any lip service towards "pity"  Patience was also in short
supply.  I guess these people were militant too, to some extent.

We live in a nation of militants.....*everyone*; there are almost
no exceptions.  It's funny to hear people say "...but Malcolm X
was a militant...i don't like that...etc."  Any white (or black)
person who can't relate directly to his militancy is a fool (or liar)!!!!
And Mr. Chaney has willfully treated us to more militancy (but
probably won't admit the connection)

SteveS