HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Gripe: soc.motss
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:29:07 GMT

There are some very supportive, sensitive and thoughtful posters in
soc.motss.  On the other hand, they are regularly visited by major
homophobes (luckily(?), most of these either don't believe in or don't
care about bis.)  Like the out lesbian and gay community at large,
they get edgy, defensive, and generally frustrated.  When I post to
soc.motss, I take great care with phrasing and sprinkle liberally with
"IMHO", "your mileage may vary", and ":-)", as appropriate.  I very
occasionally get flamed by someone who is just too tightly wound in
general that day.  I deal with it in as positive a way as I can and go
on.  I don't choose to post there often.

Since I like something in between the run-of-the-mill of either, I
read both similarly.  When a thread seems to have slipped below the
surface, whether fluffiness or flames, I pop it into my kill file and
go to the next one.  

This allows me to keep track of much of what is going on in both
groups without (a) trying to read everything and getting overwhelmed,
or (b) getting too depressed or upset to live the rest of my life with
the flexibility and openness that I want to.

IMHO.  Your mileage may vary.  :-)

 -Alan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Coming out? + de-muffining
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:09:09 GMT

Dane Spearing <dane@cardinal.stanford.edu> writes:
>Now for the question with my first posting (just to play devil's advocate
>for a minute):
>
>Why do people feel it necessary to "come out" to the world when they
>discover/realize/admit that they are bi/gay?  I sorta figured out I
>was bi about 2 years ago (not long after I got married to a wonderful
>woman who is also bi), but it's not something I really feel the need
>to "advertise".

Why do people feel it necessary to have society sanction their
relationships by getting married? And if they *must* get married, why do
they feel the need to "advertise" it to 30,000 readers of a newsgroup?
I sorta figured out that I loved someone about 2 years ago (not long
after I came out to myself) but its not something that I feel the need
to "advertise."

(Just teasing the devil's advocate)

BTW, welcome.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis)
Subject: Re: other bi's w/pierces and tats
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:00:47 GMT

In article <30607@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:

>we be seeing any of the newbis at the rapidly approaching, the
>infamous-in-advance soc.bi party?   I am _really_ looking forward to
>matching my mental images to all of you regulars IRL.  Especially people
>like Zoe (let me introduce you to a girl who looks like the Death of
>your dreams, banana optional- we'll get the rest of soc.bi into these
>characters if it takes ALL year.)
>
>Mo

Well, I doubt you'll be seeing me at the party, since I'm stuck in DE with 
insufficient funds to go anywhere else.  Eventually.  I'm a Scot at heart.  
When I'm not Greek, that is.  Or French.  And introduce me to lots of girls,
esp. over here...this weekend I ended up as the only woman with about six men.  This is carrying a het phase a bit too far...(and no, we weren't doing *that*, 
honestly, you'll read all about it in a bit....)

Zoe


Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,pnw.motss
From: marcuss@microsoft.com (Marcus Stringer)
Subject: Survey
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:50:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: important

I'm doing a survey on this little studied issue.
It is not only for lesbigays who are presently Christian,
but to all who are the children of a professed Christian family.

Tip:

1)  There will be general survey type questions such as gender,
age, ethnicity, and general denominational group (ie. Catholic, 
Protestant).

2)  In the case of denominations, you should mark the group to
which your family belonged during your adolescence.

I'll repeat these tips in the survey mail.

>>Your response will be confidential.<<

Thank you for your help.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: zen@death.corp.sun.com (d)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: it's like this, cat
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:30:48
Organization: savage hackers
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: death.corp.sun.com


  There I was... walking down the street... hand in hand with another
man... and we were both looking and talking about the pretty women on
telegraph street in berkeley on a sunny sunday afternoon, packed with
people.  It was odd.  I don't like the fact that I like the way women
look more than I like men, but that's the way it is now.  Things have
changed, since I started considering men more as people than as
mysoginystic slimeballs that are the scourge of the earth and the cause
of all the problems around...  *grin*... of course, I still think men in
general are that way, but individuals can rise above to person status.
But I rarely look at men, unless I'm actually meeting them; it's odd
that I could meet the same guy that I just passed on the street and
thought nothing about, but after meeting him, I might think that he's
cute or something.

  To me, ultimately, I'd like to treat everyone on the merits (or lack
of same) of who they are... but it's hard for me to like men, let alone
be attracted to them and/or feel close.  Llew (the guy up there that I
was walking with) is a great guy, but where are the breasts?  *laugh*  I
really hope that I can look at the differences not as deficiences, but
just as *differences* -- something to be enjoyed, something to like,
to appreciate the diversity.

  I remember the first time I really touched a man... it was odd, how
tight, how muscled the skin was.  And the stubble... how strange.  I've
gotten to the point where I can kiss a guy and not think "what am I
doing?", but there's a lot of road for me to cover, and it's asphalt
that I want to travel.  But I wonder, I doubt -- will I ever like men as
much as women?  Does it really matter?  Absolute equality, absolute
sexuality, *seems* right to me -- but am I just striving for a false
ideal?

 Anyway.  Just thinking aloud.

 -- d

(Only 4 days, 2 hours, and 36 minutes left!  Yeah!)
From: 93gtb@williams.edu (Greg Bowne)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Can't find the FAQ!
Date: 27 Jan 1993 06:27:34 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbird.cc.williams.edu

If anyone has the soc.bi faq, please send it to me!  Also, if anyone
has any literature on being bi that they have online, I'd appreciate
it.  I'm trying to coordinate bi-visibility week here at Williams and
we want to wow 'em with stuff to read.  

Greg Bowne				I'm not sure what I'm doing here
Gregory.T.Bowne@williams.edu		but I seem to be doing something
SU 2649 Williams College		right...I'm still here.
Williamstown, MA 01267
(413)-597-6369

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: vdijk@io.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: A philosophical question...
Organization: TU Delft, Faculty IO
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:30:10 GMT

In article <MUFFY.93Jan21175133@remarque.berkeley.edu>, muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
[.. start of thread unscrupulously (sp?) trashed ..]
> 
> Still, in my experience, it is very rare for anyone (monogamous or not)
> to "leave someone for someone else."  However, it is very common for
> someone to form a new relationship before leaving an old one - sort of
> like if you hate your job, you'll generally still try to find a new one
> before leaving the old one.

IMHO, very true.  Once you are at the point that a new relationship
is starting, you might as well face any current relationship with some
skepsis - it might be over without you realizing it.  In that case, it
would be polite to break up before any loose ends break you up.  (I am
not saying that it would be an easy, or a fun, thing to do.)  I cannot
think now of any relation where 'someone was left for someone else'
without the former relation being at its end.
Then again, I did not witness that many bi or polyamorous relations
breaking up..

Casper, who is thinking about a cup of strong Earl Gray, possibly with
a dash of Laphroigh (sp?, pronounciation?).  Anyone who puts ice in
hir Laphroigh should be condemned to a pint of stale coffee.

Casper G.C. van Dijk               "Broken words,
Delft University of Technology      never meant to be spoken"
the Netherlands                                    Bob Dylan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc)
Subject: Re: Lovely film, I cried
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:18:54 GMT

In <1993Jan26.213653.4039@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.195529.3232@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc) writes:
>>In <1993Jan26.193710.2950@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>>Here, dear, I'm afraid.  But my darling assures me that this
>>>must be some television reference: apparently RA does Barclaycard
>>>(a credit card of Barclay's Bank) adverts on television; snakebite
>>>is a mixture of cider and lager, renowned for inducing drunkenness
>>>in students; alas, I can do no better than that.
>>
>>I think the snake bite is a reference to the Barclycard advert where Rowan
>>finds someone who is suffering from a snake bite
>
>A bite of a snake or the effects of a 'snakebite'?  Anyway, thanks: not
>being a television-watcher the adverts had escaped my notice.

Sorry about that I only though of that little ambiguity in bed this moring.
I meant a suffering from a byte from a snake.

>
>>- Badvoc.
>
>Ooooo... haven't seen you around here before... a*noth*er local muffin?
>If so... wanna be *pounce*d? :)
>
>				Kay

Yes! I've been searching this news group all week looking for an article I
could reply to. I did not want to an introductory article.

- Badvoc.

-- 
crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk | Acid on the floor so she walks on the ceiling.
csukf@csv.warwick.ac.uk | - Andrew Eldritch.
main(){char a[7];t(a,82480129);puts(a);}t(a,c)char
*a;{if(c)t(a+1,c>>5),c&=31,c+=c-1?'a':'A';*a=c;}
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: NEW GIRL post!! not a baked good.***
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:50:20 +0000

:ps. If I sound defensive or offish it's cause I'm a little suspicious of 
:groups.  In general I'm not a "group" person.

Ah, I think I'm in love, you sweet little non-pastry thing, you.

G
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Mike's Sex Drive (was Re: grumble)
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:25:26
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:30:00 +0000

In article <memo.893827@cix.compulink.co.uk> iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Watters) writes:
>Orc quoting Muffy and boasting <grin>:
>>>  (That assumes there's a male orgasm or two in there somewhere; anyone who
>>>wants to brag about being male and being capable of going {and coming} all
>>>night is pointed in the direction of alt.sex ;-)

'twasn't me - what do *I*  know about such things?  I think that might
have been Mike...

Muffy

--

Muffy Barkocy                      |~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            | but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   | light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: What to do at a bar?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 01:10:00 GMT

 daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:

>kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>[Somehow, the bifolk I know only behave outrageously in straight
>>bars.  I well remember Alex's going-away-to-Cambridge do.  Yes,
>>Tanaqui, Sara, Dave, Alex... this means *you* :)]

Reply to Kay first: Kay, what do you mean, outrageous? Dear, dear, Alex and I
didn't even get a round of applause for ending up on the floor during that
kiss...everyone there took it as normal. Mind you, it was the same pub where
some people were bothered by the Bench performance.  

And you have never seen me working at Gayles (since I work my cocktail magic 
on women-only night)... it's not just straight bars which get edified.

>This must surely be a mistake.  I don't do such outrageous things.
>I am a respectable professional software engineer.  And I can prove
>it - come and smell my patent leather briefcase ...

Leather, Dave? Heavens, first you get a leather jacket instead of wearing the
glorious pathcwork, now a leather briefcase? hmm...

Tanaqui

"A computer terminal is not some clunky old television with a typewriter in
front of it. It is an interface where the mind and body can connect with the
universe and move bits of it about"                        _Mostly Harmless_
From: tjewell@gluttony.reed.edu (Teresa Jewell)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Clueless hetboys and bi's
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:57:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan25.225716.21801
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1k0ghk$47a@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S.  
Rapoport) writes:
> In article <1993Jan22.000051.10916@midway.uchicago.edu>  
elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> 
> ->I might add that the worst soc.bi generally has to deal with are the
> ->clueless straight boyz who Just Want to Watch.
> 
> Umm, this is just probably due to _my_ experiences, but this sort of  
made me
> cringe ...
> 
> I read this as sort of a putdown of straight, voyeuristic men.
> 
> -roy

    I think the word there that matters is "Just." You do not have the "ew  
icky" (or worse) response to the idea of men together which is referred to  
by that, and you also recognize the legitimacy of the interaction of the  
females--that they are not there for your viewing pleasure, but for the  
pleasure they derive from each other.  If they like being watched, that's  
an extra. 
    Straight boyz Just Want To Watch, but don't want to support queer  
rights or lesbigay friends is what I believe the poster referred to.

T Jewell
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Introductions (was Re: Lovely film, I cried)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:48:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.111854.2592@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> crisp@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Badvoc) writes:

>Yes! I've been searching this news group all week looking for an article I
>could reply to. I did not want to an introductory article.

Jolly good, I say!  None of this "hello I'm a muffin" nonsense.  I
mean, when I meet new people in real life, I don't throw myself at
them and ask for a hug (that comes later, hopefully...)

Anyway, welcome to the group.


--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Bi-wariness
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:57:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.222156.15418@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii) writes:

>The trouble I have, as a bi male, is that I often find myself attracted to
>bi women who seem MUCH more attracted to women.  Even when there seems to be
>a distinct connection between us, she will tend to avoid anything serious,
>and will gravitate toward a female-female relationship.  How common is this,
>and do the males here seem to experience a similar gravitation toward males? 
>I consider myself a Kinsey 2, which is a rather uncomfortable situation.

I like to read personals ads in the local weekly rags (for amusement more
than anything else), but the few times I've read an ad from a woman that
sounded halfway interesting, I was always slightly dismayed to notice
that it was in the "Women Seeking Women" columns.  It's irritating as
hell to read, in the "Women Seeking Men" columns, one description after
another in which the first two lines routinely contain adjectives like
"pretty", "attractive", or even, goddess help us, "Drop-Dead Gorgeous".
(How about "Drop-Dead Boring"?)  The Women-Seeking-Women ads seem to get
more to the point: "Hang around with me, 'cuz I'm INTERESTING."
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones)
Subject: Re: gay phone company
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1
Organization: University of California Los Angeles
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:46:30 PST

In article <1k3oplINNs6f@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Jeff Devore,
cujtd@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu writes:
>I am a member of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Allies Union at Eastern
>Illinois University in Charleston, Illinois.
>
>	At last night's meeting, one of the members mentioned something
>about a long distance phone company that is "pro-gay."  I believe he
>mentioned something about that company donating a percentage of their
>profits to gay groups.
>
>	Does anyone know what I am talking about?  Any information would
>be greatly appreciated.

I've posted on this before.  There's a long-distance phone company,
Working Assets,whose rates are lower than the major phone companies, and
they contribute at least 1% of total revenues (not profits) to non-profit
organizations in the following categories: peace, human rights, economic
justice, and environment.  Included in human rights has been NGLTF in the
past.  Their bills are printed on 100% post-consumer waste recycled
paper. Every month, they give a few phone numbers you can call for free
on the 1st Monday to express your opinion.  For example, in February you
can call the U.S. Senate for free. I have had no problems with them (2+
years) and highly recommend them. They lease lines from Sprint, so you
get fiber-optic quality.     If you want to join, call (800) 788-8588. 
And, if you'd like to be real nice and sign up and tell them that I
recommended you, I'll get a $10 credit (e-mail me for my phone number).

I saw an ad recently in the Advocate (?) about a phone company that gives
all of the charitable proceeds to gay groups, but I know nothing of them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Jones                 | Do I need someone here to scold me or do I
Network Manager            | need someone who'll grab and pull me out of
UCLA Physiological Science | this four poster dull torpor pulling
cjones@physci.ucla.        | downward?                 -- 10,000 Maniacs
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mjw19@cl.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)
Subject: Re: (Not) Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexual
Reply-To: MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: The National Society for the Inversion of Cudddly Tigers
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:43:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.202129.4900@infodev.cam.ac.uk> SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk writes:
> [.. Sylvester McCoy/Good Dr. Bad Scripts ..]
>
>Well, they didn't lynch me in the kitchen this morning when this topic
>came up, in fact there seemed to be a degree of consensus (and a lot
>of ant-BBC mutterings).  I decided at the time that watching Dr Who
>in the morning is a deeply unnatural thing....

Unless, presumably, you started watching it the previous night?

Mike.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
\  /  / Michael Williams                     Part II Computer Science Tripos
|\/|\/\ MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk                          University of Cambridge
|  |(__)Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Subject: Re: DONOHUE SHOW ON BISEXUALS (fwd)
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:51:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.144825.20952@osf.org> alan@ninja.osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writes:
>This Thursday, January 21, Donohue will be "doing" bisexuals.
>The panel has no slimewads on it, so it may actually end up being
>a positive representation, for a change.  If you watch it, it would
>be interesting to hear people's feedback afterward.

If anyone recorded it, I'd be really interested to see it - I'm aware that
America and Australia have different television standards (PAL and NTSC or
summink like that), but that's not a problem, as I have the facilities available
to me to convert.  

So... did anyone record it, perchance?



--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:04:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.190253.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> bcorkum@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
:Well, I currently have a gfriend and both of us keep our right hand nails
:trimmed down and grow the nails on the other hand long.  This way, we don't
:slay each other.

Also comes in useful if you feel a sudden urge to play guitar left-handed...

G
From: vanhoek@bend.ucsd.edu (Karen van Hoek)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Bisexuality and androgyny
Date: 26 Jan 1993 03:09:20 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

I recently read the book _Closer to Home_; many of the essays talk about
how the bisexual movement is going to do away with gender and lead us
to a truly androgynous society.   It got me wondering -- _are_ we all
into androgyny, and if so, to what extent?  Certainly I'm a feminist
and in favor of doing away with all societally-restricted roles and
codes of behavior based on gender -- but I'm not sure I'd say I'm really
for "androgyny".  And the idea that being bisexual means you don't
notice or care about gender -- not true for me.  I like men who look
masculine, with as many of the secondary sex characteristics as possible
(deep voice, body hair, muscles, etc.), and I like women who look and
dress feminine (I tend to wear skirts and makeup a fair bit, myself).
I wonder if I'm unusual, and if everyone else in the bi movement likes
the androgynous look for both sexes.  Any comments?

Karen
From: na4@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:11:24 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <C19zME.483@news.udel.edu>,
eowyn@chopin.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes: 
> 
> Zoe
> (hoping to get a rep. as a shameless e-flirt)
> 
> 
Flirt with me, Zoe,...
*N Kay
From:  orc@sybase.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: A philosophical question...
Reply-To: ss19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Ambiguity
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:30:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.235647.4459@news.columbia.edu> jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
>Here we see the *true* advantage to polyamory: When you dump your SO, both
>you and sie know that it's because there was something wrong/uncomfortable
>about the relationship between the two of you alone, not that 'there was
>someone else'...

    That's not an extraordinarily wonderful advantage, if even that.
It's perfectly possible to be dumped for someone else even if you're
being poly - your lover could fall in with someone with a completely
different worldview, and one of the unfortunate side-effects would be
dropping anyone who doesn't fit that view.  This is no better than
running into the monogamy limit of "only one lover to a customer,
please!"
                ____
  david parsons \bi/ orc@sybase.com, if you're very lucky.
                 \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi