From: shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mario Greymist and The Wyrm Oroboros)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Shadowrun: Controlling magicians
Summary: Good ideas!
Keywords: Shadowrun, SRun, SR
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:15 GMT
Organization: The Clearing House, Unlimited

>>>>>[The Silent Dark and I skragged through this section of Wordman's
posting, and came to a conclusion.  Because a lot of you seem to be
ignoring the man's good advice, well, we're gonna repost it, with a
few additions of our own.  Mario does most of the first parts, while I
get to slot my own opts later.....

--------
>1)  Economics of Talismongering.  No talismonger is just going to create
>a power focus in the hopes that someone will come and buy it.  Their 
>enchanting skills are akin to artistry.  They do commissions, and that takes
>time and nuyen.  Presumably, their clientelle and demand is limited, so
>they can afford to be choosy.  How many of them can there be?
>   An obvious counterpoint to this is selling of looted foci.  All I can
>say is make sure you know your Talismonger really, really well.  "She sells
>you a rating 1 power focus.  It looks like a little demon...."
--------

Righto.  First lesson of Etiquette: Magical is "Be prepared to answer any
and all questions of where you got that thing...."  First lesson in
safety: magical is "Be prepared to .ask. any and all questions of where
that thing came from...."  You'll be a royal vatjob if you get hosed by
the previous owner of that 'little demon'.

--------
>2)  Totemics.  Being a shaman requires real dedication.  Be real demanding
>on shamanic player's roleplaying.
--------

Give penalties if they don't play within their totem.  Loss of bonuses,
loss of magic .totally.....geasa, the spirits spit in their faces, what-
ever works.  If they are Wolf, but are acting like Racoon, force a change!
Especially if they're doing it consistently.

--------
>3)  Formulae.  Learning spells requires a teacher or a formula (or even a
>unique invention).  Spell formulae should probably be akin to gold.  Teachers
>even more so.  In addition, it is usually corporate entities who invent
>various occult formula; they have a vested interest in making sure that
>these to not fall into commoners hands (and there is a run in itself).
>Hermetic magic contains lots of infighting and prestige struggles at the
>high levels (like particle physics) and shamn don't have conventions or
>publish in trade magazines.
>   The point here is not that shadowrunners cannot get certain spell
>formulae, but that it is extremely difficult.  Some spells more than
>others.  Fashion would be pretty common, as such things go (although
>whoever invented it would be a fool to make it publically available),
>while Increase Reaction +4 would be suicidal to get.
--------

Another good point.  You can get the formula (money), or you can get some
sarariman who knows it already to teach it to you (more money).  Or you
can design it yourself (money, and a library or lodge).  All take time,
and cost karma.  The last line is my favorite, because it entails the least
amount of money.  If your magical theory is good, and your sorcery is too,
you can come up with interesting twists in your spells -- with your GM's
permission and help.

--------
>4) Legality.  Mass destruction is usually frowned apon by law enforcement
>agencies, weather it be from fire-bombings or fireballs.  Magic is usually
>easier to track.
--------

Always easier.  Within an hour, and they just might have your astral 'scent'.

--------
>5) Temporal Logic.  Many magical activities take a really long time to
>complete.  Enchanting and spell invention come to mind.  In the past
>four months of real time in our campaign, a maximum of three weeks has
>passed.
--------

*wince*  We often take several weeks out.  Laying low, moving out to the
Salish-Shidhe and 'enjoying' the 'country life'....setting up a lodge or a
circle over a few days, then getting down to work.  Of course, people .will.
wonder where you've gone to....

--------
>6) Theorectically....  Use magical theory checks extensively.  In game
>terms, this forces a magician -- at the very least -- to not spend
>karma or initial skill points on other things.  Want to initiate?  How
>do you know about initiation?  (Roll Magical Theory).  Failed the roll?
>(Yet another shadowrun, or at least two karma points for an auto-
>success).
--------

Again, good ideas.  All of these neat things that mages can do rely on
them knowing about it, and Magical Theory is your resource....

--------
>7) Magical incedence.  Base how common magical ability is in your
>game world on how many magicians are in your group.  Granted, the percentage
>of magic in runner teams is probably much higher than average, but the
>same should be true of corp hit teams.
--------

Check out the corp team in Native American Nations I.  In the Pueblo
section of the adventure, I think is where it's located.  A well-balanced
strike team.  Magic .and. material.

--------
>8) Sun Tzu.  Magic is power.  Runners know this. That's why most teams
>shoot the odd looking, non-gun holding enemies first.  Kill the mages,
>the rest will be easy.  Corp hit team strategists can rely on years
>of data from many hit teams to determine effective strategy.  You can
>bet if the runners figure it out, the corps have known it for a long
>time.
--------

Of course, Mario packs a heavy pistol and a katana.  And, in his car,
keeps a sniper rifle in an armored backpack akin to the one in the SR
release sheet about a year back...whereas the only thing that Oroboros
carries, besides his deck, is a heavy pistol and a year's supply of flash
grenades....

--------
>9) Ritual.  Very few runner teams are organized enough to use ritual
>sorcery effectively.  Corp teams don't have that problem.  They are
>also not as limited by expense (although no manager will authorize
>massive expenditures unless the runners are really being pests).
--------

Depends on how many magical PCs you have -- and how many magical NPCs
you allow them to get to help...

--------
>10) Research.  Alluded to before, most corps spend huge sums on magical
>research.  If a new magical item/spell/ritual/spirit is developed, it
>is likely to come from here.  Now to feild test it....
--------

*wince*  Of course, the reverse is true, too, if your mages have the time.

--------
>11) Unknowns.  What if the elemental Bob keeps summoning is really the
>same entity over and over again.  What if this entity has an existance
>outside being summoned and bound.  How is Bob treating this entity?
--------

Hmm.  Never tried this line of reasoning.  I'll have to experiment....
"Hey, ya dumb wagemage, whaddaya got there?"  -Remember me, Bob??-
*flame*

--------
>12) Oh the humanity.  Magicians are, to put it mildly, different.  They can
>harness great power that few understand.  In a logical society, this would
>gain them great respect.  On this planet, however, it gains them much fear
>and loathing.  On an evolutionary scale, it's only been a few seconds
>since the Salem Witch Trials.
--------

And I hear mages make real good kindling.  Actually, this reminds me of
an Astral Quest I went on...
    In one section, I was in the middle of an old 'run, and escaped a different
different way than I had the first time.  Next, I was running across the
plains, being chased by what I .think. were bogies....I dunno.  Maybe
they were barghests.  Big dogs, is all I knew, and .damned. fast.  I was
running with the aid of a nature spirit of some kind.....then the scene
shifted.  I was in a town, in the middle of nowhere.....but wait.  Perhaps
I could write a story about this.....

--------
>13) The Iliad.  For all their power, magicians have some glaring weaknesses.
>A magician in a blindfold is useless on the physical plane.  On the astral
>plane, they are outmatched by nearly all natives.  It is nearly impossible
>to hide magic from another magician.  They burn karma, often on items that
>can be made easily useless.  It is easier to kill magicians on the astral
>than any other major entity in any other place.
>   Magicians are only as smart as the players who play them.
--------

As are all characters.  A smart mage will know when to cast what, when stealth
is best, when walking out among them, confident of your Physical Mask spell.
And always remember that violence is the last refuge of the weak-willed.

Mario Greymist
........

And now for the other side of the coin.  The mighty mageman has had his say.
From .my. point of view, it's not the mage who's the most powerful -- it's
the decker.  In 2050 (or 2063), information is the most valuable thing, right?
And who's the speedo on info?  The decker.  Right.  Who can dump his asinine
enemy's loc to the corpcops?  The decker, and faster than they might take.
Who can punch the side of a system when his rival is so deep inside that one
alarm is going to drop five big black nasties on his back?  Yup.

And who is tapping the cash flows to get the nuyen to pay the runners a little
extra on the side??  Muhahahahahahaha.  The decker is the infoman, and the
world's blood is that same info.  He's got the tourniquet, and the needle...

Oroboros
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
           "Don't be afraid of guns.  Be afraid of bullets."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Clearing House, Unlimited - If you've got a seller, we got a buyer!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp