From: cochrane@spot.Colorado.EDU (Jim Cochrane)
Subject: Re: source of morality for atheists
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:32:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.213730.14549@bmerh85.bnr.ca> dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:
>In article <92450@netnews.upenn.edu> stuart@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Joseph Stuart ) writes:
>>
>>[deleted]
>>do things that I consider wrong.  Have any other atheists grappled with
>>the question of where morality comes from, and produced any cogent
>>thoughts?
>
>Good question.  Unless you've reasoned it out carefully, your moral code
>[good points about moral conditioning deleted]
>

Perhaps it would be wise to scrap the concept of morality altogether.
Morality implies a system of rules imposed upon you from outside --
by parents, religious leaders, political leaders, TV, movies, and
whatever other media can influence one's thinking.

>Rather than being a slave to this conditioning, much of which is destructive
>and geared to producing mindless warriors, I think it's important to learn
>as much as you can about human nature, and from that develop a view of how
>you think a healthy society (this one isn't by a long shot) ought to function
>in order that each member of society can leave a peaceful and happy life.

I agree.
>With this view of society in mind, you can then go on to develop a rational
>code of ethics.

But how do you keep this code of ethics from becoming just another system
of rules to be imposed upon others?  (Or are you only talking about a personal
code of ethics?)
>
>For example, growing up in a homophobic society as I did, I was programmed
>with a mild case of homophobia.  I just "knew" that homosexuality was
>wrong.  But then I started asking myself how I "knew" this, and if there
>was any rational reason for it.  The answers were respectively
>"indoctrination", and "no."  This sort of indoctrination is very worrisome,
>and you can see it in just about everybody.  It's very important to
>closely examine the things you just "know", because most of them are
>probably wrong.  You might have noticed Stan Krieger's latest bit of
>hypocritcal nonsense.  Stan just "knows" that his religion teaches proper
>moral values, and that atheists are immoral scum.  Stan is wrong, but
>only by about 180 degrees.  Stan will go to his grave a pathetic, ignorant
>little man, because he has never learned to question his conditioning.
>Don't be a Stan.

I think these moral codes form a protection against uncertainty.  It
allows people to avoid (most of the time) the terror of not knowing who
they really are or what they are doing; and if someone challenges their
system of rules, they feel very threatened -- they may even kill the
challenger, after labeling him as evil or a traitor.

  [repeated from above:]
>>Have any other atheists grappled with
>>the question of where morality comes from, and produced any cogent
>>thoughts?

I think there are some moral rules that ring true -- for example, not
killing -- because they are based on reality.  Or, put another way,
human beings have the capacity to act in a positive manner as part of
their nature.  Compassion and intelligence are not qualities that are
given to us by god or that are forced upon us by society, culture, or
the church; they are part of us.  The challenge is to discover these
qualities in ourselves and to cultivate them; and to avoid indulgence
in ignorance and deception -- qualities [the latter two] which moral
systems often tend to encourange rather than avoid.

>--
>Doug Graham          Unk, the big trouble with dumb bastards is that they
>dgraham@bnr.ca       are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being
>My own opinions.     smart.    --Kurt Vonnegut from _The Sirens of Titan_

Jim Cochrane
cochrane@spot.Colorado.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.atheism