HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: BOXSCORE min20gsw22.19dec92
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:42:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1993Jan6.125510.9527@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>,
erdmans@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Wham! With 2 Hands!) writes:
>min 116, gsw 122   19dec92
>
>gsw coach nelson is ejected, 9:56 third
>gsw coach nelson, 2 technical fouls, 9:56 third
>min coach rodgers is ejected, 6:15 third
>min coach rodgers, 2 technical fouls, 6:15 third

Wow.  I can't imagine that this happens more than once every several
dozen blue moons.  Can anybody tell us when was the last time
opposing head coaches were ejected in the same game?  (How about in
the same quarter?  Within four minutes?)

To anybody who saw the game-- how did this happen?  Was the
officiating that bad?  Or were the officials just T-happy?

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dewey@ccs.northeastern.edu (Dwight S Flewelling)
Subject: Re: IN MEMORIAM: Johnny Most
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:07:40 GMT

in Article 22427 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) says:

>In article <rlcarr.09ic@animato.network23.com> rlcarr@animato.network23.com (Rich Carreiro) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan4.203526.4709@cheshire.oxy.edu> tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada) writes:
>>> who I think were better than Johnny Most.  Sure it was entertaining to
>>> hear Most call Ruland and Mahorn "McFilthy and McNasty" but what I really
>>                                                 ^^^^^^it's *McDIRTY
>       no - you are wrong, it _is_ McFilthy & McNasty

  Sorry to stick my nose in here, but Nate, You're wrong ! originally Most called
them McNasty and McDirty, later a writer changed McDirty to McFilty, but that
wasn't Johnny.

>
>>> want from an announcer is a description of the game and what's going on
>>> and who's doing what on the court an descriptions of the players and plays.  
>>> Most wasn't that good at that.
>>
>>Not in his last few years, but during the 50's, 60's, 70's, and early 80's
>>he WAS quite good at play-by-play.
>>
>
>  note that ruland & mahorn were at washington in that timespan, so Mike
>  is referring to that time period when he found Most lacking.  even in
>  the 70's Most had lost a lot of play-by-play in his play-by-play.
>
>- nate

-Dewey ( a Life-long Johnny Most fan)

Thanks Johnny, for a lifetime of memories !
From: centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: 11 Jan 93 07:58:45 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

In article <1993Jan8.180724.20206@mprgate.mpr.ca> "A Couple of Questions",
Steve Levesque asks 

>Hi, I just have a few questions.

>1) When a shot is blocked, does it count as a Field Goal Attempt?

	Certainly, it could not be termed a "Blocked Shot" if there was
	no Field Goal Attemp.

>2) When a player misses a shot and is called for a charge, is it a FGA.

	Only if the shot was before the charge.  Therefore if the shot was
	made, it would count.  If the charge was prior to the shot, there 
	is no continuation on a charge, therefore there would be no FGA.

>3) Do blocked shots and steals count as turnovers. If not, what does
>constitute a turnover.

	A Blocked shot is a FGA attempt.  A steal is a turnover.

	A turnover can be many things...Errant pass, Traveling, Double
	Dribbles, A steal Etc.  I guess that it could be like in tennis 
	"An unforced error." (but can also be forced by a Turnover).  
	Things like 3 seconds in the key I don't think are considered 
	turnovers.


>4) Can goaltending be called on a missed Free Throw Attempt.

	Yes.  If the ball is above the rim, and the defence pulls
	it down, it is Goal Tending.  If the offence tips the ball in, 
	or slams it down while the ball is still above the rim, it is
	offence interference.

>Thanks in advance.                                           	

	Your Welcomed.

>Steve Levesque

	-Rob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tmorgan@quesadilla.ssesco.com (Toni Morgan)
Subject: Re: how bad is Dallas?
Organization: SSESCO
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:16:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.201148.22299@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org writes:

[stuff about how bad Dallas really is deleted]

Funny, I was thinking about the exact same topic for a news post.  My answer:
So bad that they made the Wolves look like an NBA team for a change.  It was
almost like watching a different team play . . . I had to keep reminding
myself that it was probably only because Dallas was the opposition.

How bad are the Wolves?  Three times better than Dallas - they have won 6
games this season.  Trougle is, half of their wins are against . . . Dallas!
Now, considering that the Wolves play Dallas twice more this year, and using
a little induction . . . we can anticipate a 10 win season, 5 fewer than last
season.  Its gonna be a long year (grumble, grumble).  I suppose it could be
worse - I could have Mavericks season tix!

BTW, McCloskey continues to insist that no coaching change is under
consideration.  The quote in today's Strib is "We don't anticipate anything
like that."  Of course, things that you don't anticipate CAN happen.

rgds,
  T


Toni Morgan        |   "Rock and roll is more than a haircut."
toni@zetaco.com    |                               - Nuno Bettencourt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: *All Star Game 1993*
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 02:47:44 GMT

In article <1ifs4vINNrcv@news.aero.org>, robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
|> In article <1ifpn3INNpij@shelley.u.washington.edu> tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:
|> |
|> |		west: karl malone, charles barkeley, chris mullen,
|> |		      tim hardaway, john stockton, clyde drexler,
|> |		      david robinson, hakeem olajuwan, james worthy(?),
|> |		      gary payton(?),
|> 
|> Instead of Worthy & Payton, could we have Sedale Threatt & Danny Manning?
|> 
|

First of all, you only named 10 players, and there are 12 spots.  I agree
with you that Malone, Barkley, Mullen, Hardaway, Stockton, Robinson,
and Olajuwon are locks.  That leaves 5 spots to fill.
  
Worthy has not played at a level worthy of All-Star consideration this
year.  If any Laker goes, it should be Threatt.  Danny Manning is an excellent
choice.  Gary Payton is worthy of consideration -- he has really improved
his scoring this year.  Although Drexler is probably an automatic, he
really has not been himself this year, and probably doesn't deserve honors
based on this year's performance.  If any Trailblazer deserves the honor,
it should be Cliff Robinson.  The other stars should come from a group
consisting of Sean Elliot of the Spurs, Ron Harper and Mark Jackson of
the Clippers, Dan Marle of the Suns, Mitch Richmond of the Kings, 
Shawn Kemp of the Supersonics. 

That's 10 players for 5 spots -- some difficult choices here.  Did I
leave out anyone else?

				terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: YATR (Yet Another Trade Rumor)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:46:55 GMT


Don't know about how likely the trade it, but lots of folks seem to be
commenting on how great a deal this would be for the Suns.  If I'm Phoenix,
I'm playing to win it all *this* year, and this trade doesn't help.

For one thing, you lose depth--two regular rotation players for one player
who may or may not be in your rotation, and a rookie to boot.  You're
already playing one rookie (Dumas) regularly.  And what happens if KJ goes
down again?

Finally, what kind of contribution do you really expect from JJ?  He's out
of shape, has missed camp.  As a comparison, Sean Elliott his first year
averaged just over 10 points per game, this as a starter playing a lot of
minutes.  JJ won't come close to matching that.
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: BOX and NOTES: MN vs NJ 12/30/92
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:39:38 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

12/30/92
New Jersesy 118 Minnesota 92

New Jersey (16-12)
Player		MIN	FG	FGA	FT	FTA	TR	PF	PTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morris		30	9	11	1	2	3	1	19
Coleman		31	11	19	1	2	12	2	23
Bowie		22	5	8	1	2	6	3	11
Petrovich	32	6	12	3	3	3	3	15
Anderson	27	6	9	4	5	4	0	16
Robinson	30	8	18	0	0	1	2	16
Dudley		21	2	2	0	0	10	1	4
Brown		13	1	2	0	0	1	2	2
Mahorn		17	3	4	0	0	1	4	6
George		7	1	2	2	2	0	1	4
Addison		5	0	4	0	0	0	0	0
O'Sullivan	5	1	1	0	0	1	0	2

Totals		240	53	92	12	16	42	19	118

Minnesota (5-19)

Player		MIN	FG	FGA	FT	FTA	TR	PF	PTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laettner	29	5	10	8	9	8	4	18
Person		33	5	12	0	0	3	0	10
Longley		8	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
West		26	5	11	6	6	4	4	16
Williams	26	1	5	2	2	3	3	4
McCann		27	6	11	0	1	3	1	12
Bailey		23	6	11	3	4	1	0	15
Smith		26	2	5	2	3	6	0	6
Blanks		13	2	2	0	0	3	1	5
Spencer		12	1	4	0	3	1	1	2
Maxey		9	2	6	0	2	3	1	4
Sellers		3	0	0	0	0	1	0	0

Totals		240	35	78	21	30	36	15	92

Assists - Minnesota 25 (Smith 6), New Jersey 34 (Anderson 9); Steals -
Minnesota 8 (Person and Williams 2), New Jersey 9 (Morris 4); Turnovers -
Minnesota 17 (Laettner 4), New Jersey 9 (Bowie 3); Blocks - Minnesota 6
(Spencere 3),New Jersey 8 (Bowie 3); 3 FG - Minnesota 1-4 (Blanks 1-1,
Laettner, Person and West 0-1), New Jersey 0-5 (Robinson 0-4, Coleman 0-1) ;
FG% - Minnesota .449, New Jersey .576; 3FG% - Minnesota .250, New Jersey .000;
FT% - Minnesota .700, New Jersey .750; Technical Fouls - Minneota 1, New Jersey
2;
A - 18,032


New Jersey		31	35	27	25	118
Minnesota		20	27	15	30	92

========
Notes:

1)  Ties Minnesota's largest margin of defeat at home in club history (26
points).

2)  Minnesota fell behind fast.  They turned the ball over the first three
times down the floor and never led.  They closed to within 3 midway through the
first half, but New Jersey then put its starters back in and it was all over.

3)  More speculation that there may be a coaching change abounds.  Leading 
candidates are assistant Sydney Lowe, and television commentators Mike Fratello
and Dick Vercaes.

4)  Current Head Coach Jimmy Rodgers said after last night's game that all
playing positions and minutes are up for grabs.


-----------------------------
-Kevin Hansen----------------
-Minnesota Twin Family Study-
-University of Minnesota-----
-khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu----
-----------------------------
Contact: University of Minnesota Women's Basketball
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Re : IN MEMORIAM : Johny Most
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:22:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HMS

In article <1icgfjINNkeg@news.aero.org> robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
>In article <2356@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder) writes:
>|
>|That was in 1987,you big dink. The network was CBS. Seems like you've
>|been drinking too much of something lately. Also,when Chick Heran was
>|being inducted into the Hall of Fame,in his acceptance speech he said
>|that Johny should have been inducted before him...
>
>I already acknowledged this error in a previous post. Where *did*
>you learn how to spell?

So where did you learn to become a headknob?
You're posting your drivel again. Perhaps I will contact your mother
myself :-)
 
>
>From a no-brain-arrogant-lowlife-never-been-alone-with-a-woman-who-wasnt
>made-out-of-plastic snotty-little-shitstain like you, I find it difficult
>to take you seriously.
>
 				R.S.
 
You can't phrase your mindless drooling to make any sense. 
And basically come across as the bandwagon elementary flamer.
Undoubtable a hypocritical misinformed flamer. You have (as far as to this
date) posted nothing of value. But do go on. Immaturity can be amusing.
 
I have to admit your train of thought is similar to the Challenger launch.

-Mark
From: dodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stirling S. Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: was Re: Paxson sucks (was Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:48:32 GMT
Organization: Organization? What's that?
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: oes.orst.edu

In article <lt#@byu.edu> jhak@sofya.math.byu.edu (Justin Hakanson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.134343.12976@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph597.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>No, that's the end of YOUR discussion.  MAYBE minus Pippen?  He's an All-Star
>>and makes a strong case for the most versatile player in the NBA (anyone else 
>>average 20pts, 7 boards and 7 assists last year? -- and so far this year he's
>>close to 19 pts, 8 boards and 7.5 assists per game this year).
>
>I'm not sure, but I seem to recall hearing about some Drecksler, (or is it
>Drexler? :), guy who averaged 25pts, 6 boards, and 6 assists a game...  :)
>

One of the biggest selling shirts in Portland is the one with white lettering
except for the great big red X in the middle:

DREXLER 

I can tell from your tone, that you knew how to spell it, but it's a great
shirt I just had to mention.
-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
S Dod^2  |   "Do what you do but know why you're doing it"---GBH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: huang@cs.uiuc.edu (Linus Huang)
Subject: Hot Rod Williams
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:00:20 GMT


I notice Williams has not appeared in any Cavs box scores lately.  Does
anyone know what malady, physical or otherwise, he has come up with?

He is invaluable to Cleveland, but they seem to be doing all right w/o
him in past weeks.

Linus Huang
huang@cs.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dewey@ccs.northeastern.edu (Dwight S Flewelling)
Subject: Re: IN MEMORIAM: Johnny Most
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:10:06 GMT


To all of you who criticized Johnny Most, saying he wasn't a "good" broadcaster
I can only say that "You never heard Johnny, the way we heard Johnny"

If ou had you'd have realized that Johnny was the Best. Everyone knew Johnny
was a Celtics fan and THAT was part of his charm. How many times have you
seen a foul during a game that the refs "missed" and screamed at the top of your
lungs how "unbelieveable" it was. WELL JOHNNY SAW THOSE FOULS TOO ! were those
fouls real, maybe not, but like any fan, Johnny saw them. He never denied being
biased. Johnny was as much a part of the Celtics for me as the Parquette and the
legendary "Garden Mystique"

As for not being a good broadcaster, well You don't survive 40 years in 
one job if you're no good at it. 

So I guess my one suggestion to all of you is, you don't have to love Johnny
the way we did, but atleast give him the respect he so deeply deserves.

-Dewey


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: Protest system unfair? (Re: Suns file protest in San Antonio loss)
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:45:48 GMT

In article <43414@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:

>Here's another idea for an possible improvement(?) to the protest
>system:
>
>When a team spots an officiating error that they feel is grounds for
>protest, they must indicate their intention to protest immediately.
>Then the other team has the opportunity to accept or refuse the
>protest.  If they accept, the error is immediately rectified, and
>the game continues.  If they refuse, then the game is played out,
>and if the protesting team loses, they may file a protest with the
>league.  If the Commissioner upholds the protest, the game is
>replayed from the point of protest.

   [...stuff deleted]

     I am somewhat skeptical of this suggestion; it may create more
protests because teams will want to protest a lot of calls during
the game.  The current NBA rules state "Protests are not permitted
during the course of a game."  You have to wait until after the
game -- and if you won, you won't have a beef and that reduces
protests by about half right there.
     But in the middle of the game, teams don't know what the final
outcome will be and they'll protest any call might affect the game
and that might be re-ruled in their favor.  Sounds like a recipe 
for a lot of protests and game stoppages.
     On the other hand, possibly this NBA rule dates from the
50s and 60s, when coaches and even owners were much less shy about
yelling at refs and trying to influence them.  Maybe the current
mid-game protest prohibition was necessary then, and not now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |
From: cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Suns file protest in San Antonio loss
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:14:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1993Jan11.201537.8664@tvnews.tv.tek.com>,
randyc@tvnews.tv.tek.com (Randall Cornwell) writes:
>I heard that the NBA was not going to overturn the REFs call for the following
>reason:  Rule is for a technical to be called, the ball MUST be inbounded.
>This is what was stated during halftime of the TNT game on Friday Night.
>Did anyone else here this?

No; in fact, I heard just the opposite.  As soon as the player out
of bounds accepts the ball from the official, the "5 second count"
begins, and it is considered a live ball.  (Come to think of it, if
this is *not* the case, then a team inbounding the ball in front of
their own bench could simply have a player inbound it from the
bench.  :^)

Who, exactly, made the statement that you heard on TNT?  If it was
just the color commentators, I wouldn't pay much attention; they
generally don't know rules half as well as they think they do.

If, on the other hand, it was some sort of news program indicating
that it had gotten word from the league-- or at least researched it
carefully--  I would give it a little more credibility.

I would guess that the Suns researched the rules pretty carefully
before filing the protest.  Furthermore, if the Suns' interpretation
of the rules is not correct, San Antonio would have based their
rebuttal on that.  They didn't.  (As somebody posted, San Antonio's
defense is this:  the official [trivia: who was it?] handed the San
Antonio player [trivia: who was it?] the ball before San Antonio was
ready for it.  Seems like a pretty weak argument to me-- if you're
not ready for it, *don't take it!*)



So where can I get a copy of the rules to look these things up for
myself, hmmm?



Tony
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Alaa is playing in Boston!!!
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:07:06 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <jxu.726164498@black.clarku.edu> jxu@black.clarku.edu (The batman) writes:
>Once again, Alaa played well last night.  He scored 21 points against LA
>clippers last night...[]... Of course, he still has a lot to learn from Kevin
>and Robert.  Hopefully, he can become a good inside player Celtics depressably
>need.
>                Jian Xu                                 "the Batman"

alas, for you Celtic fans out there, the problem is that Alaa makes the
starting 5 for the team.  nothing against Alaa - he seems like a nice kid
and has decent basketball skills - but when a player like him can make
your starting 5, then you have a lot of other things to be worried about.

- nate
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"See, in <1992Jun4.184105.12654@cbnewsk.att.com>, I claimed that Johnny Most |
| said X. In <1992Jun5.001809.16724@oakhill.sps.mot.com>, you claimed that    |
| Johnny Most did NOT say X. So your claim was a complement of my claim.      |
| It's your words against mine."    - Ed Lor, r.s.bb.p DA, June 9th, 1992     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: FTs again (was Re: Paxson sucks (was Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...))
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:06:48 GMT

In article <C0MIEG.IAF@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>In article <mt#@byu.edu> jhak@sofya.math.byu.edu (Justin Hakanson) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.150350.7745@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph597.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>>Pippen has improved in each of his last 5 seasons:
>>>
>>>Year   FG%   FT%   RPG  APG  PPG
>>>87-88 .463  .576   3.8  2.1  7.9
>>>88-89 .476  .668   6.1  3.5 14.4
>>>89-90 .489  .675   6.7  5.4 16.5
>>>90-91 .520  .706   7.3  6.2 17.8
>>>91-92 .506  .760   7.7  7.0 21.0
>			.
>Notice, everyone, what a BIG improvement that is in
>FT%; 'fact, I can't think of anyone else (apart from
>the usual obvious statistical outliers) who has done
>so well.  Anyone know what the story is?  This stuff

...

     Well the best known example is the Mailman:  Karl Malone was 
195-405 in free throws for 48.1% his rookie season.  Last year he
was 673-865 for 77.8%.  Tom Chambers is another good example:
62.0% his rookie year, 83.0% last year.  Jack Sikma was 77.7% his
rookie year, which isn't bad, but in 1988 he led the league at
92.2%.
     Other examples:  Paul Silas shot 50.6% his rookie year, and
78.3% in 1974 (which was admittedly an outlier, still he averaged
67.3% over his career).  Jerry West went from 66.6% to 81.4%
career.  Dennis Johnson:  62.4% to 79.7% career.  Larry Nance: 
64.1% to 82.2% last year.
     As the Sikma example shows, it's not just the bad free throwers
who show improvement, although obviously someone who shoots 83.6%
during his rookie season isn't going to have a lot of room for
improvement.  But improve Larry Bird did, going from that 83.6%
figure to several seasons above 90%.  
     I haven't looked at the data systematically, but my impression
is that most NBA players, at least the ones with long careers, shoot
worse in their rookie seasons than they did as collegians.  But then
they improve and become better FT shooters than they ever were in
college.  Strangely enough, players seem to DECLINE in free throw
percentage when they get really on in years, e.g. Paul Silas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro