HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:29:14 GMT
 <7150@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP><1992Oct09.184255.23352@rchland.ibm.com> 
 <7178@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP><1992Oct12.092253.23707@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au's message of 12 Oct 92 09:22:53 GMT

>>>>> On 12 Oct 92 09:22:53 GMT, braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER) said:

>>                                 Sea Wasp
>>                                   /^\
>>                                   ;;;

> 				What the fuck is this?

A reasonable size signature.

[14 lines of sig deleted]
> copy this sig and help `Just Say No' to Big Brother monitoring public bandwidth

Ah, that might explain the recognition problem...
--
     Alan Braggins, alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com, abraggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Shape Data - A division of EDS-Scicon Limited.   Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Tri-Tac Games
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:36:16 GMT
Keywords: Incursion, Bureau 13, Fringeworthy


I have picked up a few tri-tac games in the last year.  Apparently
they have re-published them all.

Anyone else have them (I *know* I saw a few Bureau 13 posts) and
want to discuss them and campaign/adventure ideas?

BTW- I like Bureau 13's explanation of groups, and the explosion
of the H-bomb on Bikini Atoill!  Too funny! (Too bad Cthulhu! >;) )




-- 
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         |  "Reality is not the world, but the perception of |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu |   the world."			-Sneakers     |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: clanti55@ursa.calvin.edu (Christopher Lantinga)
Subject: Re: The Primal Order - Is it worth it?
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:47:45 GMT

e5af046@cezanne.ucdavis.edu writes:

>A question:  I was browsing through the store the other day, and I picked up a
>copy of Wizards of the Coast's "The Primal Order."  Due to circumstances beyond
...
>(I am considering doing an Ars Magica campaign, the information in TPO may be
>useful as, as of yet, I have not seen the Pax Dei or the Maleficium in any
>stores in my area...)

I think the key here is "Ars Magica campaign." Ars Magica is supposed
to be set in the worldview of the Middle Ages. That worldview is
predominantly Christian. From what I've seen of TPO, it is completely
alien to the flavor of Christianity (even Medieval Christianity) seen
from the inside. (While it might be perfectly possible to stat out a
religion where a TPO god *claims* to have the omniscience,
omnipotence, omnipresence, infinity, and utter priority that the
Christian God has, and *claims* to be on a mission to save the
universe and humanity from degradation and damnation, but in fact only
wants more worshippers so it can be the biggest god on the block...
that's really cyincal.)

TPO basically doesn't work for a monotheistic worldview. Or would WOTC
like to argue that?

--Ed Heil, writing under the auspices of 
Chris Lantinga,
clanti55@ursa.calvin.edu



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:55:52 GMT

In article <ldbm3dINNaec@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew) writes:
>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:

Since there is some discussion of GURPS for a party of newbies, I thought
I'd put in a plug for Fantasy Hero (2nd ed.) as a decent fantasy game.
(I won't suggest Champions, am dubious about Cyber Hero, know nothing
about Western Hero, and don't suggest a pre-Hero Systems Rulebook Hero
game for newbies.  I think Fantasy Hero is the best.)

To be specific, I recommend using the Hero Systems Rulebook, Fantasy
Hero, and the Fantasy Hero Companion.
>>
>>1)	For starters, a simple, easy to follow, and relatively quick 
>>character creation process. Complex point systems like GURPS and Hero 
>>are right out. Systems with templates (Star Wars, Shadowrun, etc.) are 
>>OK, as are straight rolling systems...
>>
Character creation is something of a problem, but there are a lot of
pre-generated characters and a lot of support for creating new ones.
If you stick to the magic colleges in the back of the books, you avoid
most of Champion's real problems.  It will take a while for newbies to
get the hang of getting characters to balance, but they should come up
with fairly useful ones easily.  IMHO (and I could easily be wrong) there
are fewer important but unobvious things about character creation in
Hero than in GURPS.

>>2)	It should have an introductory adventure and some very clear 
>>and straightforward guidelines on how to set up a campaign....
>>
FH has them.

>>3)	Rules should be simple and straightforward....
>>
Skill use has one basic mechanic.  Combat is overly detailed for newbies,
but not excessively so.  A layered combat system a la GURPS would be
useful.

>>4) 	Complete, detailed adventures available...
>
Another problem area, although ICE claims that its Shadow World stuff
supports FH (I haven't bought any myself, and don't know for certain.)

BTW, how would Runequest work?  Character generation is pretty simple,
the basic system is fairly simple, there's a world sitting there, and
plenty of canned adventures.

DHT



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: nbruin71@ursa.calvin.edu (Nathan Bruinooge)
Subject: Re: Amber: Question
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:54:20 GMT


Well, it never ever happens in the books.  Judging from a strictly first-series
game, on that basis it would seem like you could only go to places, not people
or objects.  There are several instances where doing so would have made the 
going a lot easier for Corwin and others, and if it had been an option they 
certainly would have taken it.   Like having Corwin walk the Pattern and then 
Trump Gerard and Benedict through to the center, and THEN have Corwin teleport
them to rescue Brand, or whatever.  But these things never happen.

But the second series and the concept of Pattern-sentience throws this all out
of whack.   If the Pattern in sentient, then it probably can send you anywhere,
be it place of person.  It's just a matter of what it decides.  But even in 
the Merlin series there is never an instance of anyone asking the Pattern to 
take them to a person or object.   So is the Pattern even able to teleport 
someone to a person?  Just how powerful is the Pattern within Shadow?  This
seems to be the fundamental question.

Nathan Bruinooge
nbruin71@ursa.calvin.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Amber: Question
From: jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair)
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:13:20 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

   Please remember that, as Corwin makes VERY clear, walking the Pattern is a
severe ordeal, and not to be done lightly. Only in dire need. 

       It can send you anywhere you can think of. It can send you where another
person is. Whether it is the person or a shadow may be another story.

   On Caine's attempts, note that Caine had to be able to bushwack Corwin and
Brand at a time when they would be alone. Thusly, Caine's hiding in their rooms 
for hours merely means that he had no wish to go T-port to them and try to stab
them when they might not be alone. It doesn't mean he couldn't have done it.

    Set up very carefully how the Pattern works and why, but not just to avoid
any work for yourself. I do so hate statements from GMs to the effect of "The 
game will run the way I've mapped it out or not at all. Please leave your 
creativity at the door, little drones."
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: GURPS - Bunnies in Aussieland
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:54:15 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

Just a curious question about SJG B&B: does it include an Aussie Apocalypse 
scenario? :-) (Sorry, I'm in a warped frame of mind today.)

-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:6681 rec.games.frp:25214
From: narlochn@kirk.msoe.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp
Subject: TW:2000 - some questions and comments...
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:39:58 CDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee School Of Engineering, Milwaukee, WI USA

I know that someone here posted previously a whole
list of alternate 40mm grenade shells.

One was the flachete thing, another was the buckshot.
I would like the list reposted or re-e-mailed.

Also, I was wondering for TW:2000 if anyone came up
with any stats for exploding shells for a shotgun.
I saw the idea in a movie, I can't remember the name.
The plot centered around genetically engineered animals:
One was a super smart dog that would locate enemy camps, and was
empathically linked to a mutant ape that saw in IR.  The ape
would destroy people nastily.  He chopped this one womans head
off and put it in the toilet.
                            
-- 
                                                  _____
Who else is still waiting for "Naked Gun Part (Pi) | |  "

''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/
'/''/'Nathan'Narloch''/''/''/'"Alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu"/''/''/''/'
/''/'(Enforcer Burp)'/''/''/''or'/'"NARLOCHN@KIRK.MSOE.EDU"'/''/''
''/''/Milw, WI 53207/''/'"Join'the'Official'Psycho/Team..."/''/''/
'/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/'
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: TUK865@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Stephen Gill)
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Organization: Motorola
Date: 9 Oct 1992 08:31:47 CDT

I have run STORMBRINGER since it was first released and must agree that
it is a wonderfully complete game.

Character generation is simple follow the bouncing ball style with guides
and examples. Combat is simplicity itself (much simplified Runequest
system, closer to BRP) and you get the setting and scenarios thrown in.

On the negative side magic is complex (tho' powerful) and there is often
the situation where one member of the party is powerful and the rest are
relatively weak.

All in all tho it is a wonderfully atmospheric game that is my players
second choice of system (after CP2020), even if they do die an awful lot.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (Jeffrey Johnson)
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu
Organization: F.S.U. Dept of Physics
Distribution:  world
Date:  8 OCT 92 09:54:21    

In article <1992Oct8.201425.11315@waikato.ac.nz>, rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz writes...
>I was just considering the Newbie-Impact of the many systems out there. I 
>would guess that D&D still gets the most new players because it is the best
>known to outsiders. D&D is not my system of choice, but I will say that it
>is a reasonable starting system due to its simplicity.
> 
>Which system would you recommend to someone who had decided they wanted to
>try Role-Playing? The game should be suitable for whole groups of Newbies
>to learn on their own without the guidance of Role-Playing Gurus. What do
>you see as the dominant criteria for a Newbie RPG?
> 
>I believe simplicity would have to be among the prime concerns. D6 as the
>only die-type would be an advantage as would a familiar setting. And of
>course it should be fun!
> 
>My nomination goes to Star Wars. It uses d6, is simple, has a setting known
>to just about everyone, is easy to have fun with (droids are built in comic
>relief) and has the added advantage that any way-out results the are often 
>in keeping with the heroic setting anyway.
> 

Marvel Super Heroes also uses a well-known setting, is very simple to play
(although it can be a bit of a bitch to run) and way-out results are also
in keeping with superhero games.
	Paranoia would be good for new players (lots of fun, very simple)
except that the emphasis on back-stabbing might tend to make them behave
that way in other games.  However, Paranoia's system with a different 
background or different emphasis (say, the party working as a team to 
survive in this incredibly screwed-up place) could work well.
	Ghostbusters is another good choice.  (Hmmm.  We seem to be
including a lot of West End Games' products here.)
	In the way of less humorous settings, the Star Frontiers RPG from
several years back had a nice, simple system, and the "generic space game"
setting should be familiar to most people.

Travis Casey
picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu
"He-who-has-no-.sig"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: uk02700@mik.uky.edu (mitchell e french)
Subject: Re: VAMPIRE RPG question
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: uk02700
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:02:49 GMT

In <Bw5z3G.2II@acsu.buffalo.edu> v116qhth@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (I'm not evil...I'm just good looking) writes:


>  When creating a VAMPIRE character are the following formulae correct?

>	(starting) Humanity = Conscience
>	(Starting) Willpower = Self-Control + Courage

>  This is before adding in freebie points of course. Also, does anyone have
   
     First of all, why not read in the book?  Takes a lot less time and 
   energy....
     Second of all, it's Humanity = Conscience + Self Control, Willpower=
   Courage, both before freebies.

Mushroom, aka Mitch Emerson, 7th generation Toreador
e
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:41:29 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <1992Oct8.211814.7362@ncsu.edu> jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH) writes:
>
>|>Which system would you recommend to someone who had decided they wanted to
>|>try Role-Playing? The game should be suitable for whole groups of Newbies
>|>to learn on their own without the guidance of Role-Playing Gurus. What do
>|>you see as the dominant criteria for a Newbie RPG?
>|>
>	Naahhh.  What if someone doesn't LIKE Star Wars (the universe, that is).
>Though I may be prejudiced, I would suggest GURPS and any one supplement that
>happens to strike their fancy.  D6's only, two-tier combat system with lots
>of OPTIONAL rules that can be added when the players are more experienced, and
>of course the benefit of having TONS & TONS of other supplements when they get
>bored of their first choice.

	GURPS for a newbie?  I think not.  What if they don't think that their
character must have a high stat to be good in skills, as you are forced to 
think in GURPS?  What if they are unfamiliar with the character creation 
system and create grossly inefficient, and therefore ineffective, and there-
fore (we ARE talking newbies here) unfun characters?  GURPS requires far too
much handholding in character creation to be a game for newbies without the
guidance of Role-Playing Gurus, unless the newbies in question are accontants.

>	-john-
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          "She had ever chance for happiness, ever 
George W. Harris                chance in the world, and stomped ever one 
Dept. of Mathematics            of them chances down in the dirt like a 
Tufts University                bug."   _The Devil's Dream_
From: loydb@fnordbox.UUCP (Loyd Blankenship)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SJG and Secret Service
Distribution: usa
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:53:27 CST
Organization: Texas Net Illuminati

goldman@orac.cray.com (Matthew D. Goldman) writes:
> loydb@fnordbox.UUCP (Loyd Blankenship) writes:
> >
> >Loyd has lots of kinky things to tell . . . and doesn't want to see *any*
> >of them on national T.V. :-)
> >
> >Loyd
>
> How about public access cable?

Hmmmmm. After midnight, maybe? :-)

Loyd

***************************************************************************
* loydb@fnordbox.UUCP	     Once you pull the pin,  *	Loyd Blankenship  *
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From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: The Primal Order - Is it worth it?
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:18:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bw11v2.n4q
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <clanti55.718580865@ursa> clanti55@ursa.calvin.edu (Christopher Lantinga) writes:
>
>TPO basically doesn't work for a monotheistic worldview. Or would WOTC
>like to argue that?


As the author of the Ars Magica conversion notes for TPO, I think I'd like
to address this point.  One thing I was excruciatingly careful to deal with
when writing the conversion from TPO for Ars Magica use was to preserve the
existence of a real, omnipotent Deity in the Ars Magica world which also
permitted the existence of other, lesser beings who styled themselves "gods".

Basically, only three things needed to be addressed on this point:

1:  Why does God tolerate these false gods?
2:  How does True Faith interact with Primal?
3:  How can the gifts of the TPO "deities" be defined vs. True Faith.

I think I handled all of this with some success.
-- 
*******************************************************************
 "Darn these computers. They're all so naughty and so complicated.
  I could pinch them."
*******************************************************************
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: The Primal Order - Is it worth it?
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:57:00 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <16073@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>> There is no better way to handle gods.

>Hmmm, a pretty strong statement.  The problem I noticed while skimming
>through TPO was that it seemed limited to one very specific framework.  "This
>is what gods are, and what powers and restrictions are available to them, and
>they interact in these ways with each other and with mortals."  It seemed
>useless if you wanted a different setup for gods.  You can change the names
>and faces of gods, but have to have primal energy, or whatever.

>If the PCs aren't super-high level characters who are going to beat try to up
>gods, but are just ordinary people in a world where gods do exist, then
>fantasy novels or just plain imagination seem just as useful as TPO.

>Of course, I only skimmed through TPO; so I may have missed sections that
>help design gods without primal energy, or require worshippers, or whatever.


	Worshippers are a big thing in TPO. But you miss the point of TPO
if you think that it's only useful if your characters are going to be 
trying to either become gods or beat them up; in fact, TPO rules tend to
discourage most characters, even powerful ones, from challenging gods --
one small Primal bolt will blast the crap out of any mortal unless 
he's got a god backing him.

	TPO's main point is to allow you to have a handle on what the
Gods can do, without just saying "well, it's a God." and leaving it 
at that. If that's what you want, no product is of any use to you.

	BUT, if you want a way of determining how powerful each deity is
in relation to each other, of controlling and watching godly politics,
and of seeing what effect the gain and loss of worshippers and sacrifices
and so on has on each deity, TPO does it all. 

	Even in a game where your characters NEVER directly interact
with the gods, TPO can still be very useful. How many clerics can a 
god afford to have -- empowered ones, that is? TPO lets you know. What
if the Norse pantheon declares a holy war on the worshippers of the
Greek Pantheon? Eventually it comes down to a real war of the gods; who
wins, Thor or Zeus, and why? TPO shows a way to handle the battle in
a suitably Godly fashion while not leaving it arbitrary ("Well, Thor
is a secondary god in Norse mythology, while Zeus is the head of
the pantheon, so I guess Thor loses..." -- kinda arbitrary. If Thor
uses his head, he ought to have a CHANCE...)  

	And so on. There are a lot of issues that don't require direct
interaction of the Gods and Mortals which TPO can still help resolve.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Rolemaster Rules Clarifications
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:28:47 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

In <1992Oct9.133438.11895@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> acd@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (andrew.c.durston) writes:

>In article <1992Oct8.165750.19869@vssi.trw.com>, b_kondalski@vssi.trw.com (Brian J. Kondalski) writes:
>>After playing Rolemaster for a few years, I've come across some rule areas that

[stuff on stun relief agreed on. SR 1: -1 round of stun, etc]

>> 
>> 2) Various spells (mostly Essence) have a range but have a spell class of 
>>    Utility.  Utility spells are said to not effect anyone but the caster,
>>    but then why would the spell have a range?  Examples of this are on
>>    the Physical Enhancement list (Open Ess).  Seems to me if a spell-user
>>    can cast Utility spells on others, it could make some low level spells
>>    very deadly (cast Leaving on someone, and make their destination 100
>>    feet up!).  Other spells make great sense to be able to cast on others
>>    (ie Night vision).

Standard tactic. Or: Cast leaving on boulder, leave on opponents head. We
work this by having to use spell mastery for accuracy on the resultant
spell. So its not so easy. Also, if you're talking about a low level magician
using such a spell, no go. RR's are just too tough for a low level mage.

>	Depending on the nature of your campaign, some GMs allow movement
>	spells to be cast against unwilling targets ( who get RRs ) and
>	thus they by default become Force spells. Of course this does lead
>	to NPCs repeating the favor on PCs as well. Campaigns I've seen are
>	50/50 on whether this is allowed.

>	I think the Utility definition may be wrong since spells such as
>	Nightvision, Invisibility, etc. can be cast on other targets but
>	are Utility spells ( I don't have a Spell Law handy ). I would
>	primarily concentrate on the Target and Range aspects of the spell.
>> 
>> 3) Does anybody out there use the Magus class?
>	Not here. Sorry I can't help.

Never played one. Looks like a hot class though. Very powerful.

>> Well I guess that's enough for now and if anyone is interested in discussing
>> more Rolemaster rules, send me a letter.  Thanks in advance.
>	Post them here... or perhaps you can find the mythical Rolemaster
>	Mailing List that is around here somewhere...

It is around no longer. Did you not hear?

>	Ciao,
>	ACDurston, ..!att!hotld!acd

Peter
--
*******************************************************************************
Peter van Heusden              "The extreme always makes an impression"
CS2, UCT, Cape Town, RSA             J.D. - Lethal Attraction 
pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za