HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boone@convex.cl.msu.edu (Dennis Boone)
Subject: Re: rev23.3 logging
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Organization: Michigan State University, East Lansing
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:26:04 GMT

In article <2415.9207231211@cvedg.Prime.COM> you write:
>Will there be a new set of manuals for 23.3? Or just a set of updates to add
>to the various existing ones? Just wondering whether I'm going to be
>spending a pleasant afternoon shifting pages around again :-)
>
>Actually we'll be very pleased once Rev23.3 get here in a couple of weeks,
>as the new login logging (!) is going to be very important. Yesterday
>someboody was attempting to hack into the operations account on our
>administrative Prime, and we have been unable to trace the culprit's point
>of origin, though we suspect its via modem. However, they were repeatedly
>attempting to break in, it seems, as everytime the real ops logged in the
>"unsuccessful" count was well into the hundreds.
>
>Is it likely to be a bug that could cause a repeated login attempt to occur?
>If someone else has experienced this problem please let me know.
>Thanks,
>
>   Chuck

The userid doesn't occur as part of the normal stuff the machine prints to a
logged out line (Login please, etc.), does it?

Modems that take a mind to echo commands while offline will tie up most of
a processor telling that they want to login as please.

Dennis Boone
-- 
 == Frustration is portable. ==
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: PRIME
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:36:56 GMT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

Word has reached me from a *very* well placed and reliable mole inside
of COPM (PRIME-AS-WE-KNEW-IT) that COPM will close its doors as of
Aug. 31, 1992.  Toons is cancelled.  O/S work moves to service.
Status of PI seems to be in limbo -- They are reported to be looking
for a buyer for PI/Open.   More updates as confirmation continues to come
in.   Call your sources and verify.  Please co-ordinate info thru this
medium.
Mike O'Rear, USC, Los Angeles.
From: gml4410@ggr.co.uk (Lack Mr G M)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: Re: rev23.3 logging
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:48:51 GMT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

To:       Chuck Foster <Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM>
Subject:  Re: rev23.3 logging

Regarding the unsuccessful login attempts:

     Look on the bright side.  If you are seeing large failure counts at
least they haven't  succeeded  in  getting  in  (if,  indeed,  they  are
trying)!

 -------------------------- Gordon Lack ----------------------------------
 The contents of this message *may* reflect my personal opinion.  They are
 *not* intended to reflect those of my employer, or anyone else.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: knight@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Knight of the Living Dead)
Subject: Anonymous FTP with a Prime EXL
Keywords: prime EXL anonymous ftp 
Organization: It doesn't look like much, but its a system. 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:55:20 GMT

I've been put in charge with adminstrating a Prime EXL computer at the
University of Southern Colorado.  I've already placed much of the GNU
software on it, and it basically is becoming a much friendlier System 5.

I've decided to run an anonymous FTP site on the machine, but whenever
I connect and list files or change directories, it disconnects and
dumps the core.

I had to place the ftp site home directory off of root, because link
wouldn't let me create cross-partition links to the socket files
in /dev/socket.  

I've followed the directions to the letter and it still doesn't work.
If anyone has used this machine for anonymous ftp, or they know
what is wrong, please let me know.

    -- Eric Knight

Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: YODERS@PRIME.WITTENBERG.EDU (Kevin Yoders)
Subject: Primos licensing
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:12:16 GMT

Hi all,

    I was talking to my customer service engineer today and we hit
upon something interesting.  What will happen with re-licensing
software on used machines?  In the past, the software relicensing
made used purchases cost prohibitive for us.  Is there a chance this
might change?  If PrimeService's current income is pretty heavily
dependent on 50-series hardware and software maintenance, it seems
that it would be profitable for them to offer re-licensing at a
substantially lower price to keep the products in the field (and
being maintained).  Has anybody else given this any thought?  I
would love to be able to buy a used machine to keep us going for a
while longer without having to get off Primos.  About the only way
we could justify a purchase like this is if the cost were fairly
low.  Otherwise, we will likely be forced (by our financial people)
to move off the 50-series in the 1 to 1-1/2 year timeframe.  I would
like to see it be in 2 to 3 years, at the earliest.

Kevin Yoders
Wittenberg University
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: R.KITTREDGE@MD-B.Prime.COM (Roland Kittredge - Marketing 620-2800 x4666, 508)
Subject: Re: CPUG
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:12:04 GMT

CPUG WILL BE HELD OCTOBER 18-20 AT THE HOLIDAY INN CROWNE PLAZA LOCATED AT
2855 MILWAUKEE AVENUE, NORTHBROOK, IL 60062

--- Your original message :

Subject: CPUG
To:   Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:23:54 PDT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

Does anyone out there have the dates, location, etc for CPUG?  I seem to have
lost the packet.   --Thanks!
-Mike O'Rear.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: WCO@eeyore.usc.edu
Subject: PICK to UNIX
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:24:24 GMT

Ash Pirwani asked about moving PICK applications directly to UNIX based
PICK-related databases.

I have done many of these kinds of conversions.  The ease or horror one
will encounter depends on the style of coding used, run-machine side-effects
relied on, user exits used (the old SMI routines, for example), and so
forth.  It never is as straight forward as the sales people say it is.
Do not believe the line that since platform X has a PICK (or SMA) "flavor,"
everything comes across just fine.  In 15 years of using PICK, and 10 years
of moving PICK to other platforms, I have yet to see an application that
did not required at least a little bit of hand conversion.

If you want to discuss this further, feel free to contact me at

     wco@eeyore.usc.edu

or by phone at

     (619) 463-7056   (USA)
     (800) 824-2763   (toll free within the USA)


Clifton Oliver

Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: tim@shovel.Prime.COM (Tim Cantin)
Subject: Re: Curses
Followup-To: comp.sys.prime
Keywords: traceon, traceoff
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:33:39 GMT


In article <1585.212925995@kcbbs.gen.nz>, <Murray_Moffatt@kcbbs.gen.nz> writes:

> Also, does anybody know what the TRACEON and TRACEOFF Curses routines do?

Personally I have never used them, but they are listed in my handy-dandy C
libray reference as:

traceoff() /* turn off debugging output */
traceon() /* turn on debugging output */

The traceon() function will probably just print extra silliness to the screen.
Try it. :)

-T

p.s. I've never tried them on 50 series... they might not exist.

-- 
#include "stddisclaimer.h"
/* Tim Cantin          {uunet, csnet-relay}!primerd!tim || tim@s35.prime.com
   Prime Computer Inc. 10-21, 500 Old Conn. Path, Framingham, MA 01701 (USA) */
flames > /dev/null 2>&1
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: Eric@CCCC.CC.Colorado.Edu (Eric Ross)
Subject: Our Sales Representative Writes
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Organization: Colorado College, Colorado Springs Colorado
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:50:50 GMT

I just received a letter from our Prime sales rep, which reads as
follows:

"Last week, Prime Computer announced internally that they have
made the decision to discontinue operations of the Computer
Systems Business Unit (CSBU).

"With the welfare of our customers in mind, the Company has
developed the following plan:

"     1.  Your Prime sales office will be open for business at
          least through the end of August to provide
          any upgrades/add-ons you may require in the near-term.

"     2.  Following the closure of our sales office, PrimeService
          will have full responsibility for all remaining CSBU
          operations, including Prime Information and PI/Open
          products.

"PrimeService is currently formulating plans to accommodate this
increased responsibility, and will be communicating details of
this plan to each of you soon.

"In the meantime, let me assure you that there will be NO CHANGE
in the quality of service you will receive from the PrimeService
organization.  Although there will be no futture 50 Series product
development, in most cases, our current product line is more than
adequate to meet your requirements until you have time to decide
on a future platform.

"If I can provide any service to you before the end of August,
please call on me; it has been a pleasure working with you.
Thank you for your past business and I am sorry time does not
permit a personal call on each of you."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Ross  (eric@cccc.cc.colorado.edu)        Colorado College
Administrative Computing                     14 E. Cache la Poudre
(719) 389-6452                                Colorado Springs, CO  80903
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: Re: PRIME
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:58:38 GMT
	<DRAND.92Jul23131236@spinner.osf.org>
	<FRANL.92Jul23161311@draco.centerline.com>
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <FRANL.92Jul23161311@draco.centerline.com> franl@centerline.com (Fran Litterio) writes:

   ...
   So what becomes of that architecture now?  Can another company buy the
   rights to manufacture a 50 Series machine?  Will a perfectly usuable
   super-minicomputer architecture be forced to collect dust just because
   the company that developed it is gone?  With some work, it could be
   made to support UNIX (I've heard that some university has BSD UNIX
   running native on the 50 Series).  Is that enough of an opportunity to
   even bother founding a new company?

Probably nothing.  Truthfully, there is nothing remarkable and many
things deplorable in the 50 series architecture,  especially from the 
view of byte languages like C.  Other machines implement protection
rings (386, 486, PA-RISC) and could support a gated OS.  Most current
architectures support IEEE FP (a good thing) and have reasonable 
VM models.  

What market would such a company mine?  Even ever popular minis like
the VAX are fading away.  In a world where the desktop is now getting
to the old mainframe performance levels,  the name of the game is 
distributed processing,  not the grimy dark room.

--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: R.KITTREDGE@MD-B.Prime.COM (Roland Kittredge - Marketing 620-2800 x4666, 508)
Subject: Re: SOURCE and MORE SOURCE Code for PRIMOS
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:17:56 GMT

It was my understanding that this medium was not to be used for sloiciting
business and the legal group tried to do. What's good for the goose is
good for the gander.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: akc@pilot.njin.net (Albert K. Costanzo)
Subject: Re: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:03:27 GMT

Hi Steen,

I am running the 23.3 spooler on a 23.2 system with no problems...

regards,

al
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: franl@centerline.com (Fran Litterio)
Subject: Re: PRIME
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
	<DRAND.92Jul23131236@spinner.osf.org>
	<FRANL.92Jul23161311@draco.centerline.com>
	<DRAND.92Jul24115839@spinner.osf.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 06:24:23 GMT

drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand) writes:

> franl@centerline.com (Fran Litterio) writes:
> 
> > So what becomes of that architecture now?  Can another company buy the
> > rights to manufacture a 50 Series machine?  Will a perfectly usuable
> > super-minicomputer architecture be forced to collect dust just because
> > the company that developed it is gone?  With some work, it could be
> > made to support UNIX (I've heard that some university has BSD UNIX
> > running native on the 50 Series).  Is that enough of an opportunity to
> > even bother founding a new company?
> 
> Probably nothing.  Truthfully, there is nothing remarkable and many
> things deplorable in the 50 series architecture,  especially from the 
> view of byte languages like C.

From my experience with C on PRIME machines, it was PRIMOS and not the
50 Series architecture that was the source of the most headaches for C
programmers.  The PRIMOS file system did not fit well with the C I/O
paradigm.  Space compression and text-line padding were big problems
for the C library's ftell() and fseek() routines.  PRIMOS logical I/O
would have helped, but it was not finished when I worked on the PRIMOS
C compiler/library.  On the other hand, the 50 Series CPU had
instructions like ICP (increment C pointer) and ACP (add C pointer) to
make segmentation almost a non-issue for the C compiler.  The 50
Series also allowed PRIME C to achieve the Holy Grail of non-UNIX C
implementations, integer/pointer size-equivalence, by allowing C
pointers to have the E bit set but still be only 32 bits wide.
Pointer math worked fine, as long as you didn't assign a pointer to an
integer, do math on the integer, and assign it back to a pointer.  But
that's is verboten even under UNIX.  From a C source level point of
view, the 50 Series architecture was not a problem.

> What market would such a company mine?

UNIX on the 50 Series would have been a nice story to tell companies
that had already paid millions for their PRIME hardware and who would
rather replace just the OS rather than both the OS and the hardware.

Before the attempted LBO brought plague and famine to PRIME, there
were projects underway to do a RISC 50 Series chipset, a native-mode
50 Series UNIX (not Primix but something nicknamed "Natix"), and a 50
Series desktop graphics workstation.  Who could say how well PRIME
(and the 50 Series) would have done if those projects had not been
cancelled.
--
franl@centerline.com   || Fran Litterio                               
uunet!centerline!franl || CenterLine Software R&D                     
617-498-3255           || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: GORMAN_B@prime1.lancashire-poly.ac.uk (Barry Gorman)
Subject: SOURCE
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:48:20 GMT

> I don't think Prime owns the source to the PRIMOS C runtime library
> (or the C compiler).  Last I knew (1989), they were licensed to Prime
> by Pacer Software of La Jolla, CA, and Westboro, MA.
> franl@centerline.com   || Fran Litterio

I find the above very worrying. What if any contract between Prime and Pacer
is invalidated by "changes" at Prime. Will Pacer have prime C users over a
barrel? Some of the C library is a joke, frexp() for instance, and printf()
with extreme exponents. These need fixing, at no cost to the user. Will this
be done?

>From: boone@edu.msu.cl.convex (Dennis Boone)
>>4) The 'C' compiler/libraries. see 1 & 2 above. VERY few people are able
>>to work on compilers.
>That doesn't mean that the source should be locked up.  It's not like
>possession of source code makes you armed and dangerous.

>From: sam@edu.uky.ms (Mike Mills)
>The libraries are NOT part of the compiler.  You don't have to know how to
>write a compiler to write a library.  In any case, not releasing sources
>simply because (in your opinion) not many people would be able to make
>changes to it is ridiculous.

As it happens, I am qualified to work on compilers, having written my first
one as a solo effort over twenty years ago. However, I am more interested in
the C library. At the moment I can recreate source from an IPSD dump, as I
have studied many -explists and can recognise the source if not compiled
-opt 2. This is a heavy way to maintain software, why not make life easier
for me.

As was pointed out, the unix world thrives on public domain utilities etc.
One soon knows which sites are to be trusted to provide good code. And on
the other hand, which ones are junk. Personally, I feel over 90% of unix C
code is Only fit for the trash can. on the other hand, there is some superb
material to be had, eg the "sfio" improved stdio package.

There is however an example of international cooperation which does work.
Look at comp.os.minix. Everyone who modifies minix publishes on the list,
and it gets a multi-site test and inspection. Code quality is good, and help
is at hand. This list could do the same.

Prime, please think about it.

Barry
.....
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: PrimeService
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:44:49 GMT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

John_Donat, and everyone else:
Please calm down.  This is really getting out of hand.  I plan to stay with
Prime Service for both hardware and software support, and I hope to stay
with them for as long as I have Primes -- which will most likely be for
years to come.
We have experienced a rapid decline in the number of Prime Service Field
Engineers out here.  Shield's plans for Prime Service giving his track record
of raping CSBU and hastening the demise of the 50 series since he was hired
is a cause for concern.  I want Prime to insure that source code would be
available - through escrow, a trust, somehow -- IF 50 SERIES & PRIMOS
SUPPORT WOULD DROP BELOW A CERTAIN LEVEL - The level to be determined.
Prime Service revenue from Primos and 50 series will be dropping.  Every
site that leaves Prime for another vendor is going to affect the maintenance
dollars seen by Prime Service.  At some point the revenue will drop to the
point that the level of support provided cannot be justified by revenue. This
will cause a shifting of people to 'other' priorities and/or loss of technical
talent through attrition, lay-offs, etc., etc.
I (and I think 'we' as a defacto User-Group on this list) need some guarantees
from PrimeService. Source code should be one factor in this guarantee.
20 engineers (for instance) supporting Primos vs. 1 engineer can both be called
continuing service. The Mean-Time-To-Fix-Your-Bug is going to be different,
though.  To be fair to PrimeService and fair to the people paying the money,
something is going to have to be put in writing and this needs serious
consideration.
Mike O'Rear, USC. Out on a limb of my own doing.
From: PHIL.K@PBN45.Prime.COM (Phil Kumbatovic, Product Manager, PRIMOS x7696)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: re: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:46:16 GMT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

Oh no you don't,,,

   I've already asked the question and got the answer. Brewskies are
mine. mine mine mine! Let's see you pull the rabbit out of that hat!

                                            PK,,,

--- Your original message :

Subject: re: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
To:   Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:34:18 PDT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

Steen,
We ran the 23.3(beta) spooler on top of our 23.2 systems for quite a while
without a problem.   It should work just fine.  Check with Joe Coelho or
Leo (Spooler Good, Batch Bad) Sager in Prime Service - they monitor this
forum and may answer if you promise to buy them a beer or three.
Good Luck
-mso-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Subject: Re: Source
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:15:49 GMT

In Reply to Grover Davidson:
> This makes several assumptions.
> 1) Everyone who gets the source will be qualified to change it. keep in mind
> that there WILL be shops that will change the source, break the system, and
> then call Prime. You can put whatever disclaimers in the source that you
> want, but someone will do this.
>
So? If they modify the source, it is their problem.  I'm quite sure that
not everyone who currently has a source license is capable of putting in
'good' mods.
> 2) There will need to be a central group that will release patches to the
> operating system, just as Prime does today. Otherwise you will have alot
> people who will publish this fix and that fix without being certain that
> it doesn't break anything else.
>
Why a central group and patches?  I'm concerned with MY shop, not trying to
compete with ComputerVision/Prime Service.  If someone publishes a patch to
the O/S then it is up to me to insure my mods and the patch don't conflict.
> 3) PI is still a very viable commercial product. I would seriously doubt
> that until this avenue is explored completely, Prime will release any
> of the source code. And even then, there may still be some Pick stuff in
> the source code that prevents it from being released to the public.
>
No arguement. -- However, what if CSBU sells PI &/or PI/Open to a competitor
who decides to bury it?  If Prime doesn't want me to switch to UNIDATA,
UNIVERSE, or whatever, then I MUST have some guarantee that I can get
service or do it myself.  By putting the source in trust, I can at least
convince my management that we are somewhat protected.
> 4) The 'C' compiler/libraries. see 1 & 2 above. VERY few people are able
> to work on compilers.
>
But there are people who are capable.  So why not?
> These are some great ideas, but make sure that there is a structure to
> the system. Is someone willing to take over 'ownership' and maintain,
> test, and distribute the code? Is Prime going to be unable to do this
> in the future? How far off in the future? And util that time, how much
> support is Prime going to provide? Will it be business as usual for the next
> several years?
I don't need or want structure.  I want protection.  Ownership and distribution
can be done by Prime Service or a third party in the future if they so desire
and there is some type of market out there.
Mike O'Rear.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: PHIL.K@PBN45.Prime.COM (Phil Kumbatovic, Product Manager, PRIMOS x7696)
Subject: Re: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:22:44 GMT

Steen and all,,,,

    It is possible to run the rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2, but some of
the new functionality of the rev 23.3 spooler will not work. One example
would be the ability to designate users/groups to start and stop printer
environments (needs a new 23.3 gate).

                                              Phil,,,

                                   a.k.a The PRIMOS Energizer Bunny

                                         Thump any key to continue

--- Your original message :

Subject: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
To:   Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
From: Steen Hansen  <STEEN@DDS.dent.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:43:36 EDT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

I have just gotten a fix to Information rev 8.2, which had a printer
problem. The fix requires the rev 23.3 spooler to work.  I am currently at
Primos 23.2 and want to stay there for awhile for internal reasons. Is
there any problem running the rev 23.3 spooler under Primos rev 23.2?

Steen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
From: MSO@eeyore.usc.edu
Subject: re: rev 23.3 spooler on rev 23.2
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:34:18 GMT

Steen,
We ran the 23.3(beta) spooler on top of our 23.2 systems for quite a while
without a problem.   It should work just fine.  Check with Joe Coelho or
Leo (Spooler Good, Batch Bad) Sager in Prime Service - they monitor this
forum and may answer if you promise to buy them a beer or three.
Good Luck
-mso-

Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime