HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:02:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.155229.9717@eecs.nwu.edu>, phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>Many years ago, a few friends of mine and I recorded "Stairway" on a
>reel-to-reel deck, looped the tape over the capstan backwards and 
>proceeded to listed to the entire 7(?) minutes backwards (no digital
>sampling back in those days).  We listened very intently for those
>evil, Satan-inspired, lyrics, figuring that when we heard them we would 
>know.  Guess what?  We never heard them.  So, in my humble opinion, if
>they are there they are so subdued and unobvious that I really don't
>see why everyone is so concerned about them.  If you can't even hear
>it backwards, what's the big deal?  Sounds like a witch hunt to me.

The key is, as another poster has said, is listening "closely enough."  If
you listen closely enough, you can hear just about anything you want.  The
mind loves to form patterns in chaos, like the sound of a song being played 
backwards.  That's why people see patterns in clouds, inkblots, etc.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:50:16 GMT

A couple of interesting notes:

From most of the sources I've heard, subliminal is MUCH more effective than
backmasking, and harder to detect. Backmasking is, in my opinion, a red
herring.

In the Judas Priest trial, the judge ruled that had any subliminal messages
been on the tape, they would have been liable. No messages were found, 
however.

Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | Here's a test to see if you've
 caw@gtech.com                           | completed your mission in life. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | Are you alive? You haven't.
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |        - Bach
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu (Richard M. Bennema)
Subject: Elefante
Organization: Wheaton College, IL
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:05:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug3.194507.800@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow) writes:
>I've noticed that since _Back to the Street_, Petra has been produced by
>John and Dino Elefante.  I've also noticed their names appearing on the
>credits for the music on some songs and even a listing or two for
>background vocals.  They also produced _State of Control_ by Barren Cross
>and again were given credit for some of the music.
>
>So what other groups have they worked for?  Have they done anything on
>their own?
>
>--PC
Alright, the Elefante's, one of my favorite subjects.

My advice, keep looking and you'll see that they pop up all over great
Christian rock.  They have their own recording label called Pakaderm which
produces their own band Mastedon (get the pun?).  Other bands on the Pakaderm
label include: Mark Pogue, X-Sinner, Halo, Guardian (my favorite Christian
band), Brighton, and JC Crew (Rap).  There are a couple others but I can't
remember them off hand.

They also produce other groups on different labels (like Barren Cross and Petra)
such as Rick Cua.  I have heard that they have a very good studio.  SFC
mixed their latest album there and thanks is given to Dino Elefante from the
band.

I've found that it's hard to go wrong with anything that has the Elefante name
on it.  The styles of rock vary (Brighton is alternative-ish rock while
X-Sinner is screaming metal) but the lyrics and the message is always the same.
All these guys are Pro-Jesus and aren't ashamed to sing about it.  You won't
find any watered down, borderline secular lyrics on these albums.

			Gee, does it show I'm a fan?

			Richard M. Bennema

--
rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu
Richard M. Bennema		"The brain can be seen as a complex machine,
Computer Science/Math		 like a gooey computer."
Wheaton College 			-Robert C. Solomon
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Breathe Deep and Give Peace a Chance
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:00:43 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Aug14.135728.3663@cs.rose-hulman.edu> anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu. (Claude W. Anderson) writes:
>Distribution: world
>
>Am I going crazy, or is there a LOT of similarity between
>"Breathe Deep", the last song on Lost Dogs' "Scenic Routes" CD and
>"Give Peace a Chance" (by the Beatles, or was it just John and Yoko?)?
>
Even moreso, and bordering on plagiarism:  have you ever heard "It's the
End of the World As We Know It" by REM?  Throw in "GPAC" and there's not
much left to "Breath Deep" (sic).  (Has anyone else been baffled by the
fact that Terry Taylor has consistently misspelled "breathe" in his song
lyrics all these years and no one else at the record companies notices or
cares?  Reading song lyrics in Christian albums lately, it appears that
there's no real proofreading outside of a word processor spell-check.)

>
>Has anybody else noticed the same thing?  Do you think Terry Taylor was  
>doing a deliberate answer to GPAC?  If so, it certainly won't be the first  
>Beatles-sound-alike by Terry.  When I first heard "Man in the Moon" from the
>Daniel Amos "Horrendous Disk" album, I was amazed at the degree of Beatles  
>sound-alike that they achieved.
>
Uncle Terry has unabashedly worn Lennon on his sleeve all these years
and for the most part pulled it off.  For a REAL Lennonist experience
with some nifty Bowieisms thrown in, check out Terry's solo masterpiece
"Knowledge & Innocence!"

Michael.
tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu

PS -- has anyone out there ever had it pointed out to THEM that "The
Whistler" from SHOTGUN ANGEL and the song "Horrendous Disc" are
basically the same tune?
From: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: RE:  Steve Camp Album Name - After God's
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:02:55 GMT
Reply-To: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Faith -

Thanks for the lyrics to After God's Own Heart.  A friend of mine has a lot of Steve Camp's tapes, but she doesn't have Fire and Ice.  I like the title song, Fire and Ice.  By chance, do you have those lyrics?

			Thanks,
			  Alice
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: New Amy Grant song
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:55:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug18.220251.17763@gtech.com> caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White) writes:
>In article <66209@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray) writes:
->I just read in the paper this morning that Amy Grant does a cover of 
->Elvis' 'Love Me Tender' for the soundtrack of 'Honeymoon in Vegas' or
->something like that, a new movie.
-
-Is that the one about 1 bride, 2 grooms, and 38 flying Elvis's?

Yep, indeed it is.  Seems to me to be similar to 'Raising Arizona,' some of
the same actors, same 'feel,' etc.  I think i'll have to check it out.

JRjr
-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: Re: Recommendation for video...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:02:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.193653.7091@cs.cornell.edu> lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.180741.10670@athena.mit.edu> sdeering@athena.mit.edu (Scott E Deering) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug20.130351.6861@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
 
>>|> Wasn't there a movie called exodus, starring someone like Charleston
>>|> Heston?  That might be appropriate.  I sort of remember the theme
>>|> song... I think it was called exodus as well.  :-)  :-)  :-) 
>>|> ===================================================================
>>
>>I think you mean the movie "The Ten Commandments" by Cecil B. De Ville. Chuck
>>played Moses in that one...
>
>No, he's right. I remember a movie entitled "Exodus" with a theme song by
>the same title, but I don't remember who played in it or anything about it.

Yeesh.  First, there is a movie called "The Ten Commandments" that starred
Charlton Heston, which more or less depicts the events in the biblical book  
of Exodus with some Hollywood romance thrown in.  It was directed by Cecil 
B. De Mille, though.  Cecil B. De Ville is, I assume, the brother of Cruella 
De Ville and the father of Coupe.

There is also a movie called "Exodus," which was based on a novel by
Leon Uris and concerned the (re)formation of the nation of Israel in
the 1940's.  

As far as I know, there are no movies called "Leviticus" or "Menachem
Begin and the Temple of Doom."

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo)
Subject: Re: Need a Scripture reference
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:18:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.195401.5430@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> noel@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.100430.603@ualr.edu> jmdeyoung@acs.harding.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Aug13.133829.3829@cs.cornell.edu>, lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>>>
>>>Yes, this IS sort of music-related. Can anyone give me a scripture 
>>>reference to back up a claim I heard last night that Satan was "in charge" 
>>>of the music in heaven before his fall? I'd sure appreciate a reply today
>>>if someone's got it.
>>>
>>>Thanks bunches,
>>>
>>>  Linda 
>
>If memory serves me correctly, the reference you are looking for is NOT
>found in the canonical Scriptures.  I believe it is somewhere in the
>Apocrypha.  Maccabees or some such book...Don't have my non-Canonical
>text with me...now where did I PUT that thing?...
>>
>--
>Noel Estabrook          |       Let us not merely do that which is our
>noel@crs.cl.msu.edu   __|__	RIGHT, rather, let us desire to do that
>Educational Technology  |	which IS right - Me
>Michigan State Univ.    |				Romans 12:2


I'd sure appreciate a follow-up on it, Noel. This claim came from a real
down-home Pentecostal southern Evangelist who's conducting Tent Revival for
all 8 of our area AOG churches this week. I'd be mighty surprised if his 
reference would be from the Apocrypha! Aside from that, what a glorious time
we're having!! 70's signs and wonders all over the place!!! Can't hardly 
wait to get back there again tonight! We have a spiritualist camp 2 miles
down the road and they are *not* happy campers this week!!

  Linda


From: darenm@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Daren McClearnon)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:18:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Seventy Seven's
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

What new album?  There's a new album?!  "All Fall Down" came out several 
years ago.  New album!?

dBm.
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Need a Scripture reference
Date: 13 Aug 1992 18:01:20 GMT
Organization: Rice University

>Yes, this IS sort of music-related. Can anyone give me a scripture 
>reference to back up a claim I heard last night that Satan was "in charge" 
>of the music in heaven before his fall? I'd sure appreciate a reply today
>if someone's got it.

I have an electronic KJV, and I've grepped "Satan," "devil," and "music"
and so far there is no mention of this.  Only things close are
"for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light" (2 Cor 11:14) and
"he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).  And since the KJV
translates all "demon" references as "devil," that's a lot of verses.

-Ernest


-- 
--------------\  /^--^\  /--------------  *     Ernest Conrad Mueller IV
   ------------\| 0  0 |/------------     *     mueller@owlnet.rice.edu
      ----------\_ <> _/----------        *     Rice U., Home of Owlnet
                /V\--/V\                  *     "Give a hoot - Don't compute!"
From: chad@lilly.com (Chad Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:38:04 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Eli Lilly and Company



In article <1992Aug13.024631.9307@doe.utoronto.ca> Peter Mielke,
peter@doe.utoronto.ca writes:
>About 2 months ago i went to Bill Gothard's Basic Principles Seminar
>(i forget the actual name). Anyhow i went to see what he had to say
>about music (i had gone about ten years ago and was not too impressed
>by what he had to say then). This time i was even more ticked off by
>what he had to say. During the seminar Bill always backs up what he
>has to say with biblical references BUT for his music bit he doesn't
>have much and his premise that "music is not amoral" is stated right
>at the beginning BUT NEVER substantiated anywhere. He build everything
>on this premise.
>
>So what are the views out there? The way i see it, those that are
>against "christian rock" or any rock for that matter state that music
>is moral but they then run into the problem in defining a Godly style
>(which is something they then have to define)...

I've also gone to the Basic Life Principles Seminar and would highly
recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about a Christian
walk.  One important thing to remember, though, is that Bill Gothard
is _not_ Gospel.  Yes, he backs his points up with biblical references
but the majority of his material is his interpretation.  His ideas on
music are a little off of mainstream, and in fact there was some
laughter in the auditorium when he went on and on about "evil" rhythms
and his other ideas about music.  

I later tossed all of my secular music into the local dumpster and
have been very happy since, although I have many varieties of
Christian music from country to classical to pop/rock.  (My conviction
was between myself and the Holy Spirit, not between Bill and I.)  I don't 
believe in everything Bill said, but I do believe that listening to
some of the secular music out there can be harmful.  From 
experience, I'm a different person when "Bang your head" is 
running through my mind than "Sometimes by Step."

/-----------------------\------------------------------\
| Chad Miller            \ Lilly Research Laboratories | 
| Systems Manager/Analyst \ 2001 West Main St. MS GL18 |  
| Internet: chad@lilly.com \ Greenfield, Indiana 46140 | 
| miller@nuacc.acns.nwu.edu \ (317)277-4107 Fax: -4962 |
\----------------------------\-------------------------/
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:19:47 -0400 
From: "Eleen N. Kamas" <ee2g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Music for use in Liturgies
	<1992Aug19.023020.3044@athena.mit.edu>
Distribution: na

norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak) said:
>4. Music for the liturgy must be *sacred music*.  It must be *sacred*:
>composed specifically for divine worship.  That excludes religious-
>sounding or religiously-inspired pop songs (e.g, "Lord of the Dance" or
>Godspell songs); it rules out "romantic" wedding songs and patriotic hymns.

What, not even Godspell??!  Which reminds me of an amusing incident... 
Several years ago, when I was an undergraduate, I sang in the youth
choir at the local student parish. One year, Godspell was used as a sort
of Lenten theme.  So each Sunday, we would perform a song from the
musical.  One week, we needed some last minute practice, so we ducked
into one of the nearby meeting rooms.  A few people were starting to
arrive for some meeting, but said it was ok for us to practice for a
little while.  So we ran through the song "You are the light of the
world," with the refrain that ends: "We all need help to feel fine --
Let's have some wine!"  After we finished, as we were leaving one of the
folks there asked if we knew what group it was that was gathering for
their meeting.  When we said we didn't, they told us:  it was Alcoholics
Anonymous!  (now, no one say anything about that verse about brothers
stumbling... I know, I know. :-)

Eleen N. Kamas
ee2g+@andrew.cmu.edu
_______________________________________________
Thinking is like loving and dying.  Each of us must do it for himself.
             -- Josiah Royce
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:25:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.215410.22880@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:

>May I add?

>Any person who has been born-again has the Holy Spirit within them.
>They should be able to discern flesh from spirit.
>I used to be "into" really hard rock quite a few years back.
>When I listen to "Christian" music that is is "fleshly", I can sense
>it.  When I listen to music that brings praise and adoration to God,
>I can sense it.  The question is, What do I want to listen to,
>that which is fleshly or that which is spiritual?  As Christians,
>we should choose spiritual things rather than fleshly.
>"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world..." I John 2:15

This is why I don't listen to Haydn, Bach, Grant, Smith, et al. ;-)

Seriously, this is a very subjective argument and opens the old
"I have the Spirit, you don't" can of worms.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                            *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Recommendation for video...
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:03:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug21.130227.20145@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>
>As far as I know, there are no movies called "Leviticus" or "Menachem
>Begin and the Temple of Doom."
>

Sure, our youth group saw that one last year.  That's the one where the
huge, round rock rolls off the Wailing Wall and rushes after Begin, right?

Time to make send this to alt.urban.legend.  



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.
            -- J. Danforth Quayle  
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario)
Subject: Re: Music that makes you drive fast.... 
Reply-To: candel@crchh572.bnr.ca (Dave Candelario)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:45:12 GMT

Since you included some secular tunes, of course you missed a major 
player in the 'drive fast enough to pull your lips away from your teeth'
category....


Bachman Turner Overdrive's 'Not Fragile' (yes, the entire album)
Heart - Barracuda

I could get into some really bad, semi-satanic, worldly rock n roll 
(I was raised before heavy metal became a genre of it's own, and I still
consider the early Black Sabbath rock n roll) but I've been redeemed from 
it and need to resist the temptation......

Regards,

Dave 

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Pop Artists Coming to Columbus
Summary: Concerts at Grace Brethren Church, Westerville OH
Keywords: Friday Nights at Grace
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: oh
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:37:03 GMT

Since this IS a music group, I thought all you buckeyes would like to 
know about some artists coming to Columbus. They're all pop, that I 
know of, and i think most people in the group tend towards alternative.
But maybe not. So here goes:

  September 25,  Hicks and Cohagan
  October 23,    Michele Wagner & Paul Smith
  November 13    Al Denson
  January 29     Wayne Watson
  February 19    Michael Card
  March 19       Ray Boltz
  May 21 + 22    Steve Green

  All concerts start at 8pm, and are (with the exception of the May 22
  Steve Green concert) on Friday nights. The concerts are part of a series
  called "Friday Nights at Grace," held at Grace Brethren Church, 8225
  Worthington-Galena Road, Westerville OH. Tickets are reserved, at $5, $6
  and $8 each. To order tickets call 614-431-8223. 

  There is also something called "hosana '93," which is (i think) a
  preach/teach/music time, from April 22 to Aprilk 24. Some artists include:
  4 Him, Susan Ashton, Michael English, Gary McSpadden, Mark Lowry,
  Bruce Carrol, Scott Wesley Brown. The one preacher/teacher I recognize
  is Earl Radmacher, president emeritus of Western Conservative Bapsits
  (sp!) Seminary. Don't know the pricing for that.

  i have no connection with Grace Brethren, other than i happen to be there
  on most sunday mornings when i'm in town. It's a pretty conservative place,
  but even so, i'm impressed by the quantity, if not diversity, of the 
  people they are bringing in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian