From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  A SPI Question
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:47:46 GMT

Colin writes:

> If the spirit axiom is assumed to represent some form of stored
> possibility energy associated with a given religion within a cosm, what
> are the effects on invoking from out of cosm?

Not quite correct; the axiom doesn't represent a power pool religion
can tap into, it represents the ease with which the faithful can
communicate with their diety and request assistance (miracles and
invocations).  

> For example, in the LL, the only stored p-energy is for Keta Kalles.  What
> are the metaphysical mechanics of, say, a Dunad worshipper invoking?  Do
> they just draw p-energy from their home cosm using their attachment via
> the Everlaws?

They don't draw P-Energy from anywhere.  When a diety is invoked the
diety itself provides the power necessary for the miraculous event
(that is why no Faith total is necessary when you invoke a diety, just
the Focus total.)

In the Living Land, Lanala is powerful enough to possibly disrupt any
attempt to communicate with an alien diety (the contradiction check),
but anywhere else there is no problem (other than a possibly quite
high Difficulty number).

> A related question:  "The God of the Sacellum is a jealous god.  He
> specifically denies His miracles to anyone without faith(Sacellum)."  in
> game terms, no non-Sacellum worshippers can learn Sacellum miracles.

I would say that this means a Sacellum priest cannot perform
beneficial miracles on anyone who does not have Faith(Sacellum).
(That clears up a lot of those spiritual conflict problems, but does
limit a Sacellum priests usefulness.)  Those fun combat miracles are
of course meant to be used on non- faithful demonic scum (and
not-so-demonic scum 8-) so that's a different matter....

> Alright.  What does it mean to invoke to learn a foreign miracle?  Are you
> asking your god to generate a new miracle identical to the one granted by
> another god?

My impression is that except for Divine Inspiration (ie, GM whim) any
new miracle must come from petitioning your diety.  I see being
granted appropriate foreign miracles much the same as being granted
any of the miracles already associated with your religion.

Remember, miracles are not the same thing as magic spells; you really
aren't learning how to perform miracle X, you've been granted a boon
by your diety in that he will allow you to tap into his power for a
certain, specific effect.  No two priests will perform the same
miracle in the same manner as two mages would with the same spell
because the miracle comes from your personal relationship with your
diety, not your knowledge of how to manipulate spritual energies.

> Since invoking for a miracle uses one's personal SPI axiom (e.g., Father
> Hardy invokes at Orrorshian SPI 17 to get Crisis of Faith), the former

That is incorrect; the spiritual axiom of the cosm that the religion
is from is what the rules say (I looked it up in the Orrorsh SB), not
the axiom of the priest invoking the diety.  

I think this rule is making the assumption that when you witness a
new miracle, you will be in the realm that miracle is native to, and
as such you use the local axiom for determining the difficulty of
invoking the diety (as per the normal invoking rules).

What they didn't seem to take into account is that you might encounter
an alien religion in a realm it isn't native to (for example, you
witness a jakett in the Nile perform a miracle that you think your
diety would allow you to perform.)

Since the rules mention using the normal invoking rules when gaining a
new miracle, I'd say that you use the local Spiritual axiom regardless
of your or the miracle's native axiom level.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg