HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ricky@danebury.hursley.ibm.com ()
Subject: Re: Primer for image processing?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 07:36:56 GMT
Organization: IBM UK Scientific Centre

A good all round image processing reference is 'Digital Image Processing'
by Gonzalez and Wintz. If you need the ISBN and/or publisher details drop
me a note offline (turnerrw@winvmd.vnet.ibm.com) and I'll dig out my copy
from home and send you the info.

If you want a really good, low to medium level introductory text, then there
are two that can be recommended:

1) 'An Introduction to Digital Image Processing', by Wayne Niblack,
    and published by Prewntice Hall
2) 'Practical Digital Image Processing', by Rhys Lewis, published by
    Ellis Horwood.

Rick Turner
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: ileicht@jarthur.claremont.edu (Spiff)
Subject: Color Laser Printer Access
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:29:46 GMT


I've got some files that I would like to print out on a color
laser printer. Could someone give me some suggestions on where
to luck to find access to one. Do many office places that have
color xeroxes, and DTP services have them? What would be the
best format for the files? TIFF? EPS? Any idea of what hardware
platform they will be on? Cost?

Thanks
ileicht@jarthur.claremont.edu
From: jcbhrb@nic.cerf.net (Jacob Hirbawi)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Fastest way to fill a 2D triangle
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:47:27 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

What I would like to have is the absolutely fastest way to fill a 2D 
triangle with a solid color. I have two simplistic ways of doing this which
are not only slow but will not work if some of the pixels within the triangle
are already set to the color of the boundary. I am sure there are better ways
of doing this and would really appreciate any pointers. Note that I am not 
really interseted in general algorithms for arbitrary or convex polygons and
am not trying to fill in a complicated bitmap pattern -- speed is the one
and only concern for now.

I'll describe what I am using now for the curious -- and for those intersted
in knowing how NOT to do it :-)

(1) Draw the triangle boundary with some obscure color; find the bounding
    rectangle of th triangle; then starting at the lower corner of the 
    rectangle row by row find the first crossing and last crossing of
    the row with the triangle and fill in the pixels in between. This is
    done in the innocent looking program below:

      void FillTriangle1(int x1,int y1,int x2,int y2,int x3,int y3,int color)
      { 
       int x,y,X1,Y1,X2,Y2,i1,i2;
       DrawLine(x1,y1,x2,y2,ObscureColor);
       DrawLine(x2,y2,x3,y3,ObscureColor);
       DrawLine(x3,y3,x1,y1,ObscureColor);
       X1=min(x1,min(x2,x3));
       Y1=min(y1,min(y2,y3));
       X2=max(x1,max(x2,x3));
       Y2=max(y1,max(y2,y3));
       for(y=Y1;y<Y2;y++)
        {
         i1=X1;while ( (ReadPixel(i1,y) != ObscureColor) && i1<X2) i1++;
         i2=X2;while ( (ReadPixel(i2,y) != ObscureColor) && i2>X1) i2--;
         for(x=i1;x<i2;x++)
          WritePixel(x,y,color);
        }
      }

(2) Draw the triangle boundary and then use a flood-fill routine staring
    at the median point to fill in the interior. This is a highly recursive
    routine listed below:

   void FillTriangle2(int x1,int y1,int x2,int y2,int x3,int y3,int color)
   { 
     float x0,y0;
     DrawLine(x1,y1,x2,y2,color);
     DrawLine(x2,y2,x3,y3,color);
     DrawLine(x3,y3,x1,y1,color);
     x0=(x1+x2+x3)/3;
     y0=(y1+y2+y3)/3;
     FloodFill(x0,y0,color);
   }

   void FloodFill(int x,int y,int color)
   { 
    if( ReadPixel(x,y) != color )
     { WritePixel(x,y,color);
       FloodFill(x+1,y  ,color);
       FloodFill(x-1,y  ,color);
       FloodFill(x  ,y+1,color);
       FloodFill(x  ,y-1,color);
     }
   }


Thanks.

Jacob Hirbawi
JcbHrb@CERF.net
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: IMAGEIN, hi_color and 24-bit test.
From: djlewis@ualr.edu
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:04:45 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

IMAGEIN demonstration disk version 3.0 was uploaded to wuarchive.wustl.edu
into the pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS directory as the file IMAGEIN.ZIP. if there are two
imagein.zip files, take the larger (aprox: 1.36 meg), I may have made an 
accidental partial copy. Pkunzip it into a sub-directory and read the 
README.1st for directions. This is a WINDOWS program only.
	Any troubles with it, let me know. And enjoy. I found the only to
save your work in this program is a screen capture or 'prtscr' to clipboard.

IT is GREAT for testing that new hi-colour or 24-bit colour card.
Don Lewis
djlewis@ualr.edu
From: gavin@krypton.asd.sgi.com (Gavin Bell)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Determining if a polygon is convex
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:06:30 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: krypton.asd.sgi.com

I write:
>...
>Else figure out the sum of 180 degrees minus each angle.
>  If the sum is 360 or -360 degrees, the polygon is concave.
>  Else it self-intersects somewhere.

This may be confusing: For example, given a triangle with 30-60-90
degree corners, figure out:
(180-30) + (180-60) + (180-90) = 150+120+90 = 360

--
--gavin     (gavin@sgi.com,  (415)390-1024)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: R1DWS@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dan Stefancik)
Subject: digital cameras - ADVICE WANTED
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:57:42 GMT

Hi!  I am considering buying either a Canon Xapshot or a Logitech Fotoman.
If you can offer any comparisons and/or advice I would appreciate hearing
from you.  Please E-mail, I don't normally read this Group.  Thanks.  Dan
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Re: what's up with c.g.r
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 21:58:31 GMT


In article <1992Oct9.093138.17688@cs.ucf.edu> wilson@cs.ucf.edu (tom
wilson) writes:
>
>haven't seen the article still. It's been more than 3 weeks.

I have not seen articles since beginning of the June,
except when we last time wondered what happened to the group,
somebody did send a test message and got it through.
However, the moderator did not take part to our discussion;
so, we never knew why and what.


MODERATOR:
        John Murray (murray@vsjrm.scri.fsu.edu)
        Backup: John Woolverton (woolstar@gumby.caltech.edu)
 

Finger:

Login name: murray                      In real life: John Murray
Directory: /ds13/d/users/murray         Shell: /bin/csh
Last login Fri Oct  2 16:27 on ttyp8 from scri4d.scri.fsu.
Project: SciAn (Scientific Animation) project, and other graphics goodies.
Plan:
A man, a plan, a canal; Panama!


Murray, if you are reading; how about taking part to our discussion? *please*
Should we change the moderator? Woolverton, are you reading this?

In a couple of days we have to contact to person who organizes
moderations; maybe somebody at *.uu.net.
We wouldn't like to wait six months to get c.g.r back, eh?


Juhana Kouhia
From: gibsonm@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Gibson)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Problem with zbuffer algorithm and colinear lines...
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:33:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct14.023300.10299
Reply-To: gibsonm@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I've been pretty successful implementing a zbuffer algorithm for hidden
surface removal , except that there are sometimes little lines left over that
get written on top of everything else. I am fairly certain that these lines
happen when the three points that make up a face end up being colinear, since
3 points on the same line don't define a plane so I would guess that my plane
equation stuff is not valid in these cases. So I was wondering if anybody
could help me with an easy test to see if three 3-d points lie on the same line
and therefore aren't valid for plane stuff? I'd sure appreciate any help.

                                                     Michael
From: cfaigle@npac.syr.edu (Christopher T. Faigle)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: U. Utah Tech Report (1988) Wanted
Keywords: Utah Cobb Sphere Spline
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:22:18 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University NPAC/SCCS


	I have the following referene:

J. Cobb. "A Rational bicubic representation of the sphere." Technical
	Technical Report, Computer Science, U. of Utah, 1988.


	I had hoped to get the paper ftp from cs.utah.edu, but the message
their is that the paper archive is no longer being kept up.  Does anyone
know how I could get hold of this paper? 


Thanks,
-Chris Faigle
Northeast Parallel Architectures Center
Syracuse University
cfaigle@sccs.syr.edu
From: CGANZ@ibm.gwdg.de (Christian Ganz)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Looking for 24bit pics
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:15:20 GMT
Organization: GWDG, Goettingen

Hello everyone |
 
I'm looking for 24bit pics and applications.
I'm using the new True 3.1 from Johnson Design.
Where are ftp-sites which offer such things.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Christian Ganz
 
CGANZ@IBM.GWDG.DE or GANZ@DGOWISO1.BITNET
From: gamg8733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gregory Alan Mendel)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Determining if a polygon is convex
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:57:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw4KnJ.KKB
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

reuel@blivet.houst.sgi.com (Reuel Nash) writes:


>In article <1992Oct14.051459.5967@kpc.com>, hollasch@kpc.com (Steve
>Hollasch) writes:
>|> fred@kpc.com (Fred Fisher) writes:
>|> > Does anyone know a nice quick way to determine if a polygon is convex?
>|> 
>|> zhu@sgi.com (Benjamin Zhu) writes:
>|> | 
>|> | Here are two relatively straightforward solutions off my head.
>|> | 
>|> | (1) Throw away vertex ordering, and compute the convex hull of
	.
	.
	.

>|> | (2) Walk along the edges. See if every other vertex lies at the
>|> |     same side of current edge. If so, convex. Otherwise, not!
>|> 
>|>     This fails for the following polygon:
>|> 
>|>                3 ________ 2
>|>                  \       |         Another way to think of this rule
>|>                   \   5  |         is that you're always making a left
>|>                    \ /|  |         turn to get to the next vertex.
>|>                     X |  |         It's the self-intersection that
>|>                    / \|  |         screws us up here.
>|>                   /   4  |
>|>                  /       |
>|>                0 ~~~~~~~~ 1
>|> 

>Does not!

>the test is:	(note the word "every" above)
>for each edge
>	are ALL the other vertices on the same side of this edge?

>edge 01: yes (all to left)
>edge 12: yes (all to left)
>edge 23: yes (all to left)
>edge 34: no (0 to right, others to left) -> not convex

>This algorithm sounds like O(n^2) to me. 


I think Nash is correct in suggesting that Hollasch misinterpreted the
algorithm suggested by Zu.  I would like to point out, however, that the
algorithm which Hollasch describes (and repudiates) will work fine for
non-self-intersecting polygons, and will be O(n).  Thus, this may be the
best method, if the polygons are restricted from being self-intersecting.

Actually, unless you are working with polygons with many vertices,
the O of the algorithm is likely unimportant.  Polygons in typical
graphics applications tend to have only a small number of vertices.

But, since the 'Hollasch' algorithm requires that the 'inside' test be
performed on only one vertex per edge, while the 'Zu2' algorithm requires
the same test on every vertex for every edge, the Hollasch algorithm
will certainly be faster.

Thus:  I believe that the 'Zu2' algorithm will work for ANY polygon,
but if possible, I would try to use the 'Hollasch' algorithm.

					Greg Mendel
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: morley@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: 3D Meshes of teeth?
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:43:57 GMT

Hi, I'm looking for 3D mesh objects of human teeth.  I'd like to find a
seperate object for each kind of tooth.  Also, a mesh of a jaw (with or
without teeth) would be nice.  I'm doing a project for a collection of
dentists here in town, and these would be useful for adding a little
"glitz" to the presentations...

Thanks!

MARK
morley@camins.camosun.bc.ca

PS:  I'm still looking for a 3D mesh of a ROSE as well...
From: Andrew.Lehane@brunel.ac.uk (Andrew R Lehane)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: 3D Graphics Libraries
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:01:59 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

My colleagues and myself are interested in using/purchasing a 3D graphics library in the form
of C++ class libraries. The only package we have hard of is HOOPS. Does anybody know of any
others? And how good are they? The information would be gratefully recieved. Could you send
it via e-mail to andrew.lehane@brunel.ac.uk. Many thanks in advance.
From: kluster@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Kevin Luster)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: X window advice wanted (please)
Date: 15 Oct 1992 16:38:21 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: gumby.cs.caltech.edu
Keywords: X, radiosity

gatenby@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk writes:


>Dear All:

>	I wonder if any of you could help:


>	Does anyone know how to run xv, xloadimage or getx11 so that
>it puts the image in an already-open window, rather than always
>opening a new one ?

>	Neil
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Neil Gatenby, Computer Graphics Unit, University of Manchester,
>	      Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, England.
> Tel: (+44) 061 275 6095  Fax: (+44) 061 275 6040  Email: gatenby@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, but I do have a simple X package that I wrote for our introductory
computer graphics class here which brings up a window with user
supplied dimensions and has routines for being able to read and write
portions of the window. You either pass or get back an array which
contains RGB values in the range of 0.0 -> 1.0 and the location of the
rectangular region in the window that you want the image read /
written into. All of the X stuff is hidden from the user. It works
under 6/8/24 bit visuals on a variety of machines.  Send me e-mail if
interested.

-K
kluster@egg.gg.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: rksoni@IASTATE.EDU (Rajesh K Soni)
Subject: Info needed: Object orientation for min/max shadow region
Reply-To: rksoni@IASTATE.EDU (Rajesh K Soni)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:31:49 GMT

For one of my projects I need information/literature so as to determine the
orientation of an object for its minimum/maximum shadow region.

Appreciate if anyone can provide any references or any other information.

Thanks.


--
-- Rajesh K Soni                              rksoni@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: DXF format
From: Tony_Garnockjones@kcbbs.gen.nz (Tony Garnockjones)
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:25:46 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

I have some DXF format files I would like to convert.  Trouble is, my 
DXF interpreter is having some problems with them, namely:

  Unexpected group in Polyline
  Bad Entities section

I need some info on the DXF file format - is there somewhere I can get 
this information?
From: spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: SIGGRAPH `92 Proceedings?
Date: 9 Oct 1992 23:08:36 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: szechuan.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Oct9.182526.18988@koko.csustan.edu> rsc@altair.csustan.edu (Steve Cunningham) writes:
>As to why these are in stores already, apparently the shipment to Addison-Wesley
>didn't come back from the conference but came directly from the printers.

Uhhhh.... why can't the loyal, dues paying members of SIGGRAPH get
*their* proceedings direct from the printers?  Why must the
proceedings be shipped to the conference and back in the first place?
This seems a trifle inefficient.  There is a good reason for this,
yes?

							spl


-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Twit twit twit/Jug jug jug jug jug jug/So rudely forc'd./Tereu"
                - T. S. Eliot, "The Waste Land," III. The Fire Sermon
Xref: sparky comp.graphics:10357 rec.arts.animation:4418
From: tlilley@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Tripp Lilley)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Wow!  Killer Bee
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:45:22 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

feel real silly... what I told you was '91 ... i meant '90...
(oops.)
 -t.
-- 
 USES disclaim;                                                      |^^\/^^| 2
 Tripp Lilley   -- tlilley@csugrad.cs.vt.edu                         | |\/| |
 The MultiMedia Lab of the Colleges of Architecture and Engineering  |_|  |_|
 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University         (silly ASCII logo)
From: mre1@itri.bton.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Sun VideoPix
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:08:03 GMT
Reply-To: mre1@itri.bton.ac.uk
Organization: ITRI, University of Brighton, UK

Does anyone have any experience of using the VideoPix card
by Sun ? It allows you to capture images and display them 
on a sparc workstation. Does anyone have a recommendation
for a frame grabber for a sparc costing 500-700 pounds ?

Thank you,
Mark

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                             |
| Mark Evans                     e-mail: mre1@itri.bton.ac.uk |
|                                uucp:   uknet!itri!mre1      |
| ITRI, Univeristy of Brighton,  Tel:    +44 273 642915       |
| Lewes Road, Brighton,          Fax:    +44 273 606653       |
| E. Sussex, BN2 4AT, UK.                                     |
|                                                             |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: Frank.Neumann@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Frank Neumann)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup for POV files??
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:18:28 GMT

Hi,
andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson) writes:

>Just a thought, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who would like
>a forum to exchange (and show off!) their POV files...  me included...

Good idea. Just as an information for you (and maybe others as well),
there does exist a DKB/POV (well, actually more POV these days :-)
mailing list. To get info, send a mail containing the body 'help'
to  listserv@trearn.bitnet
To subscribe, send a mail with this body to the same address:
subscribe dkb-l <your full name>

To submit articles, send them directly to dkb-l@trearn.bitnet.

On another note, I maintain a directory at our ftp site that deals with
DKB/POV and related stuff. Among them are also some data files for these
programs. Our address is:

ftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.1.9], directory /pub/dkbtrace.

The problem here is that these data files were created during different
'aeras' of the program, some are made for DKB2.12 and some for POV0.5 (which
is obsolete now). 
Recently I also put up a directory 'POV1.0' in /pub/dkbtrace/scenes, and
put there some of these great input files created by Mike Miller. I converted
the files I got so POV 1.0 would be happy with them (most of the original
files were written for DKBTrace 2.12). And certainly I'm always happy to add
scene files to this directory.

Of course, this ftp site does not mean I would be against sharing POV
files in a newsgroup - this way a lot more people might read/contribute,
as there are still enough out there without Internet access. So, my
vote for your suggestion would certainly be yes, however, I doubt the
traffic in such a group would be very high..

>I knocked up a simulation of a solar eclipse which I'd like to distribute.
>Takes a wee while on anything less than a Cray... or nearly a week on a
>486/33 using the parameters "-w640 -h480 +a0.3 -x"

I'm just checking it out at 160x128, without anti-aliasing..my god, 200
light sources :-} Do I have your permission to add this scene to our ftp
archive ?

Bye,
Frank
-- 
+ Frank Neumann, Hauptstr. 107, 2900 Oldenburg, FRG   The Amiga is it.   +
+       InterNet: Frank.Neumann@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de         +
+       UUCP: neumann@uniol.uucp   \\//    InHouse:amigo@faramir         +
+ Zerberus: neumann@uniol.zer BitNet:295391@DOLUNI1.BITNET IRC: Franky   +
+ "All die Manta-Computer-User - Hauptsache vorne leuchtet 33Mhz auf..." +
+        - Stefan Schulze in fido.ger.amiga, 04.08.1992                  +
Xref: sparky comp.graphics:10390 rec.arts.animation:4427
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Wow! Killer Bee
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:55:24 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

tlilley@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Tripp Lilley) writes:

>rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>> It think it might have been done by Angel Studios here in San Diego,
>> so I'll call them and ask, but till then does anyone know anything
>> about this one?

>   If the bit you're talking about started with a tree going through
>seasonal changes, then picked up on the bee (lots of pix of the hive, and
>bees milling about?) and went into the chase sequence (which included 
>initially three bees, who were successively nixed) ... anyway, if this
>sounds like the video you describe, it was originally called 'The Nature'

No, this wasn't it... it started out with a river in a forest and a
leaping fish, then panned around to different parts of the forest,
then zoomed in on an insect flying around.  Then a bigger insect
appears (much like helicopters in movies - it rises up behind the
foliage).  Massive chase scene ensues, whipping through the vegetation
close up, up a tree, down another, even through a hollow log (very
nice interior view).  It ends when the small insect fakes and the
large insect ends up in a spider web (excellent spider).
-- 
Gravity:  What you get when you eat too much and too fast.
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: ushomirs@spot.Colorado.EDU (USHOMIRSKIY GRIGORIY)
Subject: C library to generate POSTSCRIPT code
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:47:52 GMT

As the title states I'm looking for a C library to generate Postscript files.
I wrote a program that displays time series data (received from Geosynchronous
Operational Environmental Satellites -- GOES) and would like to add a printing
capability to it.  The display is basically a log plot, so I just need line
drawing PostScript (no bitmaps).  Having outline fonts would be nice but
bitmap fonts would do too.  I would consider both commercial (under $1000) and
public domain libraries.

Any suggestions or pointers to information would be greatly appreciated.

I don't read this newsgroup regularly, so please e-mail to me directly.  If 
I get enough replies and requests, I'll post a summary.

Greg.
ushomirs@spot.colorado.edu

P.S. Sorry if this was a FAQ.
From: spark@spuddy.uucp (Steve)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: COlor scanning on a B&W scanner ??
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:48:17 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain

In article <1992Oct7.194114.10229@muddcs.claremont.edu> ileicht@jarthur.claremont.edu (Spiff) writes:
>That actually sounds like an interesting project. If it was my black
>and white scanner, I might actually think of pursuing that. I am versed
>in Linear Algebra.. although the color theory would probably prove to be
>quite difficult.  I was hoping that there was already a software package

I can't see this working. B&W scanners only use RED LEDS to illuminate their
subject. Any other colour filter placed in front of the this will simply appear
BLACK.

Steve

-- 

        ---- Steve Parkinson (spark%spuddy.uucp@uknet.ac.uk) ----
        ----- Call Spuddy for Free UK USENET on 0203 638780 -----