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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:04:56 -0600
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Furtherance of a discussion ...

Caius claims that he will accept ONLY the testimony of an "expert" on
rightism=Nazism. He also makes two claims that I believe to be
specious.

I am not an "expert" in the sense that I do not have a PhD in German
history. But, I HAVE studied German history on my own for 35 years,
and I feel I have a good grasp of it, especially the period 1914-45.

Secondly, the "socialism" end of National Socialism was never
seriously embraced by Hitler. Again, I offer sources, not rhetoric:

From _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, p.205:

"But Hitler had contrary thoughts (in 1933). For him the Nazi
socialist slogans had been merely propaganda, means of winning over
the masses on his way to power. Now that he had the power he was
uninterested in them. (I maintain, as does Shirer, that he was NEVER
interested in the "socialism" end of "national socialism," nor did he
behave in such a manner.) ... For the moment at least the Right -
business, the Army, the President- must be appeased."

Early on that page, Shirer states: "The Nazis had destroyed the Left,
but the Right remained: big business and finance, the aristocracy,
the Junker landlords, and the Prussian generals ..."

I also maintain, to address another contention of Caius', that he is
DEAD wrong in maintaining that big business was "managed" on behalf
of the state. I offer _The Arms of Krupp by William Manchester as AN
exhibit on this issue - Krupp, one of the largest companies in
Germany, was OWNED by the Krupp family, NEVER taken over by the
state, and did not go "public" as a stock company until Alfried
Krupp's suicide in 1967. At NO time did the Krupps, or IG Farben, or
most other "big businesses" give up ownership of their companies.
They ALLIED themselves with the state, and went along with the
state's goals, but at no time did ownership devolve to the state, and
I would challenge Caius' assertion that such companies were only
"managed" by their owners. Yes, the Nazis DID destroy Jewish
companies like Rothschild, but in general, alliance was the rule.

Yes, I would agree that "socialism" was used by the Right, and even
some of Hitler's followers (Feder, Drexler, and the Strassers) bought
into the "socialist" parts of the Nazi program of of 1920. That
program called for "abolition of incomes unearned by work" (not
carried through on); "sharing with the state of profits from large
industry" (done only in a minimal way, Krupp for example, made a
fortune during the war that they NEVER shared with the regime);
"abolishment of land rents and speculation in land" (never done);
"...insisted on the communalization of department stores and their
lease at cheap rates to small traders" (never done). "These demands
were put in (the program) at the insistence of Drexler and Feder, who
apparently really believed in the "socialism" of National Socialism.
They were the ideas which Hitler was to find embarassing when the big
industrialists and landlords began to pour money into the party
coffers, and of course nothing was ever done about them." Shirer,
p.41.

I know Caius sees this source, considered by historians as
relatively unimpeachable, as not valid. But, I find his assertions as
only assertions, he offers no documentation for his views, just
claims that he is correct. Caius, I challenge you, since you seem
fond of challenges, to document your "case" that the Nazis were
"leftists." VMS
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