HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: billr@halcyon.com (Bill Ruediger)
Subject: How do I CU/TIP ??? Does anyone know?
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:51:45 GMT

I have tried several times, and several hours to dial out of our local
unix based system.  It has two utilities (CU and TIP) that appear to
dial a remote site.

Am I going about this the correct way?  Can you dial out of a unix
system???

Please help me.

billr@halcyon.com

Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.novell
From: merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer)
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL !?
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:07:30 GMT

In article <30DEC199208140923@author.gsfc.nasa.gov> rkoehler@author.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bob Koehler) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.235051.26400@xenitec.on.ca>, merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer) writes...
>>there are really only two variations, SysV and BSD (well, and SunOS, but
>>i see that as sort of a SysV/BSD thing).
>
>  So which one do you want to claim SCO falls into?

says right on the login banner.  Unix System V.

it has added BSDisms, but then most modern SysV's do.


-- 
[ Jim Mercer   Reptilian Research  merce@iguana.reptiles.org  +1 416-506-0654 ]
[                      longer life through colder blood                       ]
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: Windows NT Report
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:10:40 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)

In article <16029@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
>>	More likely, UNIX will continue to prosper where it always has: as a
>>server, development platform,
>
>Assuming, of course, that the large size of the PC+DOS/Windows
>marketplace doesn't cause development tools to come out for it that beat
>the UNIX tools all hollow (assuming that hasn't happened *already)....

No, it hasn't.
-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	merk!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,alt.amateur-comp
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: What makes Unix Special?
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:32:27 GMT

In article <31DEC199210495450@author.gsfc.nasa.gov> rkoehler@author.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bob Koehler) writes:
>UNIX does not represent "an advance over past operating systems" in many areas,
>having been written in 1969 it does show limitations due to the software
>technology of that era.

Unix wasn't really "written in 1969".  It was begun in 1969.  There's a big
difference... the common Unix variants (SV, BSD4) are products of the late
70s.

>Sound arguments can be made for technical superiority
>of newer systems, such as VMS, written in the late 70s.

Arguments can be made for anything.  Sound ones... well, make some! ;-)

>Currently most UNIX systems fall down in the areas or real-time, but POSIX
>1003.4 will hopefully push more vendors toward adding pre-emptable kernels and
>user level threads.

Naw... POSIX is A Good Thing, but it's the availability of the Mach micro-
kernel that is starting to give us more advanced OS capabilities.  Thanks,
CMU!

>Often older UNIX systems have security weaknesses, which newer UNIX systems
>have adressed.

There's some truth to this, but then it depends on what you're comparing
it to.  The masses are often under the impression that Unix has "weak
security," but the reality is that the holes in Unix are just better known
that then holes in other OSes, because *Unix* is better known!  There are
a lot of people out there who know Unix inside-out and it's relatively 
easy to get access to source-code (that's how RTM developed his knownledge
of Unix weaknesses, for example... by reading source code like other people
read novels!)  I suspect that most OSes have more open holes than Unix, 
they're just not well known because very few people know the OS well enough
to find them.  Security through obscurity. 

>One of my pet peeves in UNIX land is its closed nature.  To me, open means you
>can look inside.  I cannot afford the current UNIX source license prices, but I
>have found source licensing arangements for proprietary systems often an order
>of magnitude lower.

Really?  I don't know otherwise, but I find this /very/ surprising.  How
much for a VMS source license?  Can anyone even get it?  Besides, a BSD-NET2
"source license" is $0.  Ditto for Linux.  Ditto for the Mach microkernel (not
Unix, but a good foundation for a Unix-workalike).  Ditto for GNU.

>And I'll still take VMS over UNIX any day.  VMS owes some of its human
>interface concepts to UNIX, and both should learn of few new tricks from each
>other.

*shrug*... I'll still take Unix over VMS any day.

>Personally I hope POSIX will catch on [...]

I agree.

>And I no doubt have touched a spark to several flames in waiting, most
>(or perhaps all) of which I will much too simply ignore.

*grin*... I don't consider this response a flame, and I'm also not writing
it to goad a response out of you, so go ahead and ignore it.  But if you
feel like replying, you can start by making those "sound arguments for the
technical superiority of VMS."
--
Jurgen Botz, jbotz@mtholyoke.edu
From: jdearin@pacs.pha.pa.us ( John P. Dearing)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: BBS Software for Xenix sought.
Keywords: BBS Xenix unix
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:18:06 GMT
Organization: Philadelphia Area Computer Society

Our User Group runs a multi-line Bulletin Board System here in Philly
using SCO Xenix/386 as the operating system. So far, we have tried two
different types of BBS software on this system. Neither has been truly
satisfactory. They are Caucus and Magpie.

Caucus is really fine electronic conferencing software but doesn't cut
it when tried as general purpose messaging software.

Magpie has some nice features (I like the tree oriented message base)
but the learning (or un-learning) curve is pretty steep.

Right now, I'm looking for the names and manufacturers/sources of
messaging software for a general purpose BBS. If you manage a Unix/Xenix
BBS please let me know what you are using and what you like/dislike
about it.

While I do read this group regularly, E-mail would be appreciated. If
the responses warrant, I'll summarize to the net.

Thanks in advance!!

John Dearing

-- 
John Dearing @ PACS Multi-SIG BBS (Philadelphia Area Computer Society)
      Email: jdearin@pacs.pha.pa.us
  U.S.Snail: 725 Ripley Place, Phila. PA, 19111-2524 (USA)
Voice Phone: +1.215.725.0103 (after 5pm Eastern)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
From: rdavis@convex.com (Ray Davis)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:04:25 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

CCGREG@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Greg Johnson) writes:

>Here's what I want to know.  How many bytes are needed to make a
>file-system+loader like MS-DOS gain Unix-like capabilities?

Gods - I thought I was the only one that realized that msdos is not
an operating system, but simply a "file-system+loader"!  It's good to
see another rational mind out there.  The dweebs in PC mags and even in
certain Unix mags that keep comparing DOS and NT to UNIX don't get it.

Ray
From: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: Novell just bought Unix?
Date: 24 Dec 1992 06:34:39 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <2B360E6C.369@news.service.uci.edu>, by mwu@orion.oac.uci.edu (Matt Wu):
> 
> I just heard that Novell bought USL.  What does this mean?

What does it mean?    

There is an active patent infringement lawsuit against Novell claiming
that Novell NetWare infringes this client-server patent.  According to
what I've read, the patent's claims are _very_ broad, and some legal
experts think that if this goes to trial, the patent holder (an
independent engineer, _not_ another corporate behemouth) may well win.
If that happens, what is Novell to do, what with their major (only?)
product found to infringe a valid patent?  The patent holder would be
well within his rights to demand Novell cease and desist from
developing, vending, and/or deploying Netware in this case, _and_
demand compensation from Novell, and from the _users_ of the infringing
product.  (The suit also names Bank of America, a _major_ Novell
customer.)

So, maybe Novell is "broadening it's product line"?  :-)

Just a thought.

-- 
John G Dobnick                          ATTnet: (414) 229-5727
Computing Services Division             INTERNET: jgd@uwm.edu
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee     UUCP: uunet!uwm!jgd

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight."  -- William Safire
From: pechter@ocpt.ccur.com (Bill Pechter)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:26:06 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp.,Information Services

In article <1992Dec27.113018.11911@black.toppoint.de> kris@black.toppoint.de (Kristian Koehntopp) writes:
>In <Bzv6x9.8FE@tnl.com> norstar@tnl.com (Daniel Ray) writes:
>>My favorite lacking in UNIX is in the area of system security. I wish
>>UNIX had ACLs like VAX/VMS systems do. It would allow for user-by-user
>>access lists, and not just owner-group-other access.
>
>Get AIX.
>


Or Pyramid's OSxV5.1a which had ACL's and C2 security and a lot of 
B1 auditing features.

All this and dual universes.
Both SVR3 and 4.2BSD utilities.
Three versions of UUCP.  SysVR2, BNU (HoneyDANBER) and BSD.
Virtual Disks
Disk Striping, Concatenation, and Mirror Disks.
lp and lpd

Fun, fun fun.

Bill 
(ex-Pyramid OSx Admin Instructor)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Bill Pechter, N2RDI           | The postman always pings twice.
        Concurrent Computer Corp.     | pechter@ocpt.ccur.com
        2 Crescent Place, Oceanport, NJ 07757 - Tel:908-870-4780 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,alt.amateur-comp
From: hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Hauben)
Subject: What makes Unix Special?
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:25:44 GMT

When ever I talk to someone about Unix or read a book about the
Unix Operating System, it eventually comes up that is is
wonderful. People and Books say that using Unix is a joy. This is
a mystery to me.

I can appreciate Unix's power as a command-oriented operating
system, but don't recognize what makes Unix so special. Does Unix
represent a development over past operating systems which I might
never have used? Please help me understand. I would appreciate
this to be a public discussion so others can see your responses
and add their own comments.

Thank you,
-Michael

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael Hauben    CC '95      | Write ME for the NEW Amateur Computerist   |
| hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu | Special Supplement on Usenet News called   |
| am893@cleveland.freenet.edu   | "The Wonderful World of Usenet News"       |
Xref: sparky comp.unix.misc:4765 comp.sys.novell:10924
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: What rc stands for in .cshrc
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:12:54 GMT

RC starts for "restart commands" or "run commands" (depending on whose
etymology you believe).
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: Novell just bought Unix?
Date: 2 Jan 93 04:56:09 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>	How strange are the machinations of the AT&T board: First they pay
>	huge sums to buy NCR, who are then asked to run AT&T's computer
>	operations. Then they sell off some of the crown jewels of their
>	own computer technology.

Depends on what you mean by "their own computer technology".  Yes, the
computers AT&T made (and may still make, although I have the impression
that, eventually, they'll get replaced by NCR machines) run UNIX - but
then, so do many of the computers that Sun and HP and IBM and DEC and
10,000 PClone makers and Pyramid and Sequent and SGI and Siemens Nixdorf
and Fujitsu and Sony and ICL and Bull and... make.

I.e., the fact that AT&T's computers - and NCR's computers - run UNIX
doesn't make them particularly unique, so in that sense it's not their
"crown jewels" (any more than Joe Blow's or Jane Doe's diamond ring is
*their* "crown jewel").

They may have decided that they don't want to be in the business of
developing and selling "porting base" OSes for everybody else to put on
their machines, nor the business of selling OS binary releases for those
10,000 PClone makers' machines, nor in the the business of selling
software to run atop UNIX, such as Tuxedo, in "porting base" form, but
do want to be in the business of making computers and, perhaps, making
software for particular markets, which they provide with their
computers.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
From: bio@lis.rch.unimelb.edu.au (bio)
Subject: pcftobdf needed ??
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:26:14 GMT

[ Article crossposted from comp.sys.hp ]
[ Author was bio ]
[ Posted on Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:16:43 GMT ]


	Is there a utility to convert pcf fonts to bdf fonts ??
	Thanks
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,alt.amateur-comp
From: seeba@netcom.com (Tom Seeba)
Subject: Re: What makes Unix Special?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:34:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.175557.18716@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>Michael Hauben (hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
>
> [lot's of stuff deleted]
>
>The cli -- command line interface -- has come a long way from sh.
>tcsh, the best interactive shell out there now, has full command
>line editing and recall (it even saves your commands between
>sessions!).
>
> [more stuff deleted]
>
>Scott
>

Tcsh the best interactive shell?  Man, you're living in the dark ages.
Try the korn shell.  It's a couple of orders of magnitude better than
tcsh.

Tom


Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,misc.invest
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: Novell just bought Unix?
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:00:56 GMT

In article <1hqekuINNm2f@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
> Sounded like a ripoff to most Novell stockholders, though.
> The stock tanked.  It's now back up; way up.  Looks like
> you and I know more than they do.

Insider trading, with 10 million insiders. I shoulda bought some, but I'm
gutless when it comes to the stock market.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
From: jonathan@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Jonathan L Neuenschwander)
Subject: SCO UNIX -- Who's compatible?
Summary: What Unices have binary compatibility with SCO?
Keywords: SCO, compatibility
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: 23 Dec 92 07:02:47 GMT


I'm asking this for friend, and forgive me if it's a FAQ, I haven't seen a 
list here recently.  (If it is a FAQ, please send me a copy)

I remember reading recently that one flavor of UNIX (Unixware?  QNX?) claimed
binary compatibility with SCO's UNIX.  What Unices are compatible, is there a
list somewhere?  

Thanks for your help!

Jonathan


--
___ |Jonathan      |Internet:jonathan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu|Whom computers
|__||Neuenschwander|NeXTmail:buzz@symphony.cc.purdue.edu  |would destroy, they
|   |              |America Online:Buzz Lee               |must first drive mad
 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,alt.amateur-comp
From: kate@wavefront.wti.com (Kathy Samec)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Backup Debate
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:09:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wavefront Technologies Inc, Santa Barbara, CA

I would like to get peoples opinions on backup systems/procedures.
I have been put in charge of backups for a small company with 12 workstations.
What is the consensus out there of DAT vs 8 mm. We may need to increase
our backing up power soon and I have to decide what is the best route.
I hear from some people that 8mm aren't reliable but my small exposure to
it has been good so far. I also have a mac that needs backing up too. 
Is there anything out there that will allow me to back my mac up to a
drive on a unix system?
If it matters, the workstations are a mixture of Silicon Graphics and IBM
RS6000.

Thanks for any help.

-- 
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Kathi Samec			- Everything is beautiful and
Santa Barbara Studios		  Nothing hurt.
kate@wti.com					-Stoney Stevenson
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
From: rdavis@convex.com (Ray Davis)
Subject: Re: UNIX: Acronym?
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:44:02 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

mike_o@apollo.hp.com (Mike O'Shaughnessy) writes:

>>|> >was lying around at Bell labs. Since they were incorporating some of the
>>|> >concepts they had been working on for the Multics project, they called it
>>|> >"UNICS". This was later shortened to "Unix".
>>
>>that's also the story i had heard... UNICS would stand for 
>>"UNIplexed ..." (vs multics= multiplexed.....") :)
>>
>The version of the derivation I've heard:
>    The original Unix project was inspired by Multics, but had to fit
>    on much smaller hardware.  Since it would be "crippled" compared to
>    Multics, it was called "eunuchs" because some of Multics' most 
>    important pieces were missing; it was to be a "castrated" version of Multics.  

Actually UNIX sort of got its start with the porting of the
game/simulation "Space Travel" from GECOS to a PDP-7 by Thompson,
which prompted the implementation of the first version of the
filesystem, some utilities and a shell.  UNIX evolved from there.

These guys didn't want to lose the nice environment they had with
Multics, which was on its way out.  So many of the ideas originated
with Multics.  BTW, the "ics" in Multics probably stood for "Interactive
Computing Service".

    "Although it was not until well into 1970 that Brian Kernighan
    suggested the name 'UNIX,' in a somewhat treacherous pun on
    'Multics', the operating system we know today was born."

			    D.M. Ritchie
			    AT&T Bell Laboratories Technical Journal
			    Vol. 63, No. 8, October 1984

Cheers,
Ray
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
From: rkoehler@author.gsfc.nasa.gov (BOB KOEHLER)
Subject: Novell buys USL
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: CSC System Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:18:00 GMT

   Novell has signed a letter of intent to buy UNIX System Laboratories.

   What does this mean to the rest of us?  Anybody's guess for now.


Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.novell
From: CCGREG@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Greg Johnson)
Subject: Re: What is lacking in UNIX? (Re: UNIVEL MUST BE KIDDING!!!!!)
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 14:09:05 CST

In article <1992Dec18.163645.2866@pelane.cubx.com>
noyau@pelane.cubx.com  (Eric Noyau) writes:
>NeXTOS is almost that simple. It's already installed on any NeXTStation.
>If you want to intall a new version boot from cd-rom and click install or
>upgrade...
 
NeXT public archives offer a "BootFloppy" builder which lets you boot
a NeXT in single-user mode from one floppy.  To be sure, it does
require a 2.88MB floppy, and it's even more normalized than ordinary
Unix--there's no "cat ...", one says "grep '' ...".  Still, using just
that floppy with no hard disk I can vi, find, mount, and do essential
sysadmin work.  On the NeXT single-floppy Unix, the mach kernel & such take
624K, /bin 734K, /usr/shlib 673K, /usr/etc 230K, with about 200K left
for VM (!) & user files.  What's a DOS floppy give us, edlin?
 
The question isn't so much whether a Unix system can get down on all
fours and bark like a dog.  Unix does accomodate radical stripping and
still offers more functionality than similar-sized systems.
 
Here's what I want to know.  How many bytes are needed to make a
file-system+loader like MS-DOS gain Unix-like capabilities?
(Probably size(OS/2)-size(DOS)...)  Put more precisely:
 
- Across systems (Unix flavors, OS/2, Mac, Amiga, MVS, VMS, whatever)
  what is the range of space costs for basic features such as virtual memory,
  multitasking, security, device drivers, etc.?  Byte-counts for higher
  features such as TCP/IP, NFS, and X should be easy to obtain.
 
  Can we make sweeping generalizations like "virtual memory code takes 1MB"?
  (Uh, how about "virtual memory code takes 1MB on non-IBM systems"?)
 
- To what extent do these systems allow adding or removing such features?
From: kate@wavefront.wti.com (Kathy Samec)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: Modem software
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:39:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wavefront Technologies Inc, Santa Barbara, CA

We will be buying a couple modems to do data transfer between two
unix machines. Either two Silicon Graphics stations or one SGI and an
IBM RS6000. What modem software comes with what modems that will
run on these two platforms?

Thanks.

-- 
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Kathi Samec			- Everything is beautiful and
Santa Barbara Studios		  Nothing hurt.
kate@wti.com					-Stoney Stevenson
From: neonakis@terpsi.csi.forth.gr (E.A.Neonakis)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc
Subject: What rc stands for in .cshrc
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:01:35 GMT
Organization: Institute of Computer Science, FORTH Hellas
NNTP-Posting-Host: terpsi.csi.forth.gr

The subject line says it all.

Thanks and a Happy New Year to all of you!
E.A.Neonakis
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,alt.amateur-comp
From: mckeeveb@monashee.sfu.ca (Gumby - The unknown user)
Subject: Re: What makes Unix Special?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:20:23 GMT

seeba@netcom.com (Tom Seeba) writes:

>In article <1992Dec31.175557.18716@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>>Michael Hauben (hauben@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
>>
>>The cli -- command line interface -- has come a long way from sh.
>>tcsh, the best interactive shell out there now, has full command
>>line editing and recall (it even saves your commands between
>>sessions!).
>>

>Tcsh the best interactive shell?  Man, you're living in the dark ages.
>Try the korn shell.  It's a couple of orders of magnitude better than
>tcsh.

I use the zsh here at SFU, and find that it has all of those features as
well.  I suspect the best is a matter of personal preference.

I do agree that we're a lot better off since the days of sh. :-)

-- 
    Rob McKeever  VE7ICJ  rmckeeve@sfu.ca  mckeeveb@sfu.ca  604-291-0457
"Do you know what standards are?  They're career paths for people who don't
 want to work!" - John Parkinson, Ernst & Young at the BCDMA Conference '92
       -*-          Standard Disclaimers should be adequate        -*-