From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 09:50:21 GMT

>v070p6nd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Anthos) writes:
 >O'Brian is and has always been a Chief Petty Officer.  
When did you decide that?  :-)

 >The Lt. reference is from season one and two 
Nope.  It is from season two.  "O'Brien" did not appear in season one.

 >since the actor was a 'regular' EXTRA (not portraying a named 
 >part) and not O'Brian, yet.

Wrong.  The O'Brien/Transporter Chief character was created starting 
with the FIRST episode of season two.  He clearly wore the rank of
Lieutenant, and in his next appearance they called him as such.


>btd43733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BTDonovan) writes:
 >I must wholeheartedly disagree.  First of all: he DID have two filled 
 >circles, therefore, (surprise), he is a lieutennant.  
Exactly!   That is the #1 biggest plain and simple fact.

 >The reason he is 'chief' is transporter chief is because he is the top 
 >officer in the (for lack of a better explanation) "transporter division" 

Yup.  That has always been how his character was portrayed.  On several
occasions we have seen various Ensigns under his command: "his technicians".
He also served as Tactical Officer on both the USS Rutledge and USS Enterprise.
That is a position for someone of the rank of Lieutenant (or at least Ensign).

 >I think that the deal with "Realm of Fear" is that some writers got extremely
 >LAZY and with little regard to the flamewars which could occur on r.a.s.*
 >temporarily demoted O'Brien in order to put a cute scene in where Barclay
 >could order him around.  

They obviously had a NEED for Barclay to give him an order, and they hardly
could have let that happen with LT O'brien visibly outranking Barclay...
BUT, as we have seen this season, the "pip department" has suddenly run
totally amok!  Characters left and right are having their pips screwed up.


>william@cs.arizona.edu (William E. Hertling) writes:
 >O'Brien was referred to as a Lieutenant during the first and second season,
Second.

 >whenever he appeared on the show.  When he became a regularly appearing 
 >crew member, his rank "dropped" to Chief Petty Officer. 

Phew, that's some imagination!  :->   What causes someone's rank to "drop"
magically like that?   He became a "regular" semi-regular in the *second*
season, and up until "Realm" his rank was always exactly the same: LT.

 >He did not get demoted. Just pretend that he was never a Lt. to 
 >begin with, and that no one ever referred to him as Lt.
WHY would anyone *possibly* want to do that??

 >In short, you could say that those brief sections of episodes in which
 >O'Brien is referred to as Lt. are non-canon.

He was "referred" to as an LT in EVERY EPISODE from the 2nd-5th season.
There is nothing at all the least bit "non-canon" about that...


>odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
 >in the episode "Family," doesn't Worf's 'Father' refer to Chief O'Brien 
 >as a non-com?  

Not quite...  The old guy makes some statement about "all us chief petty 
officers", and O'Brien sort of laughs.  THAT is THE one big reason that some 
people decided that Miles was suddenly a "cpo".  One old retired guy who 
probably wasn't even familiar with the new uniforms (and clearly one writer
who was no more familiar).  That is hardly an even remotely credible source. 

 >That would certainly keep O'Brien from being a Lieutenant, no
 >matter what his pips said, if it's true.

How could that ONE vague comment possibly mean more than the Lieutenant's
uniform he wore during EVERY appearance prior to this season?


>myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Matt J. Martin) writes:
 >it seems that O'Brian's formers pips were silver, not the normal 
 >gold of commissioned officers.  

No...<sigh>   That is a very old and incorrect idea.  Various people 
from the show have said over and over that ALL the pips are *GOLD*.
It is merely the lighting that can sometimes like them look "silver".

 >So perhaps the enlisted insignia in Star Fleet are
 >silver, thus differentiating them from the officers.  

If it takes a magnifying glass and just the right lighting to tell
officers from enlisted in Starfleet, then i'd say they would have a
LOT of big problems!  :->    As we have seen, enlisteds wear NO pips.

 >He clearly is a chief petty officer. 

:-)   Any particular reason?  I guess the fact that he *always* 
wore the rank of Lieutenant must be the deciding factor...<heh>

 >He has been referred to as a CPO on several occasions.

Nope.  He was half-way included in a "cpo" comment ONCE by Sergey. That's IT.

 >You never hear Warf referred to as Chief Warf, of Geordi as Chief La Fodge.

Ha!  I certainly hope not!  :->


Whatever the case, Miles Edward O'Brien *VERY* clearly wore the rank of
LIEUTENANT from the second thru fifth seasons, and performed actions and
duties commensurate with such a rank.  We wore the RANK so he MUST be a LT.
Impersonating an officer is a *very* serious offense.  The ramblings of 
ONE blatantly very silly character do not even remotely compare to that.

As for what he is NOW, I have no idea!  :-)

It would have been perfectly natural for him to be promoted to Lt. Commander
for the position of DSN Operations/Engineering Chief, but who knows now.

-{ DA }-