HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:58:10 CST
From:         Rick Francis <C47805NF@WUVMD.BITNET>
Subject:      Last(?) on colorization

For M. Kerbel and others:  sorry to be repetitive, but here it is in
near-monosyllables.
No one is defending colorization.
I don't like it.
My gripe is that the arguments against it expressed here are often
shallow and not well-thought out, and would prohibit most creative
work if everyone actually believed them.

Conclusion:  rank on colorization to your heart's content, but
try to think if your objections to it are based on some unexamined
notions (transformation of source = evil) which would apply to/prohibit
film adaptations of novels, etc.,
OR
if your objections point out criticisms which could be valid for any
transformation:  does it add anything?  is it superfluous?

Colorizing films is stupid because it answers those questions with a NO.
It is not evil or defilement because it "transforms" the "sacred" original,
since it does that to no greater degree than Scorsese's Cape Fear
does to the earlier one; to no greater degree than the three versions of
_Maltese Falcon_ does to Hammett's novel; to no greater degree than the
five or six versions of _The Postman Always Rings Twice_ does to the novel,
or to the 1946 version.  Get it now, M. Kerbel?

______________________________________
|  Rick Francis  C47805NF@WUVMD      |
|  Dep't of Comparative Literature,  |
|  Box 1107                          |
|  Washington University             |
|  St. Louis, MO  63130              |
______________________________________
That's it from me.
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 09:51:00 EDT
From:         Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU
Subject:      Re: Colorization--legal requirements

Joe Self suggests that the copyright requirements only pertain to the 75
"holy films" selected by the Library of Congress - I don't think so
when Ralph Oman explained the system to me it was in 1987, way before
the Registry od holy films was invented - It also pertains to films that
are in the public domain IF the colorizer wants to get a copyright for
his efforts
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:20:05 CDT
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Parodies in toonville

Did anybody see last night's Simpsons (10/1/92)?
They did two incredibly humerous take offs on moives.
First there was the Maggie/Great Escape/ ala Steve McQueen thing.
Then there was Alfred Hitcock and the Birds take off.
God I love that show.

Have a good weekend y'all

Joe Daus  U of MO-Columbia
C444307@MIZZOU1.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:04:59 EST
From:         "(Steve X. Portigal)" <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject:      Re: Dead Ringers
              S.J." at Sep 29, 92 2:02 pm

Dick Clawson, S.J. writes:
>
> I recall reading the novel upon which this film was based.  I *think*
> that it was called _Twins_.  I had read it many years before seeing the

 Which was in fact the original title of the Cronenberg flick until the
DeVito/Arnie film was announced...

 I remember hearing that it was loosely based on the story of two
twin NY gynecologists who killed each other...

--
/*************************************************************\
|  Steve Portigal  University of Guelph  Guelph, Ontario      |
|  stevep@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (519) 824-4120 x 3580      |
\*************************************************************/
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:45:44 -0500
From:         Gary Graffagnino <ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Good [BAD] Movies

>From: CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
>
>We have had comments on the worst, z-grade, b movies on this list.  Howe
>about movies that made it big, oscar winners or critically aclaimed, that
>you thought were over-rated or hated?

I thought Ordinary People was overrated.  It was okay, but not as good as the
acclaim it got.
                           ______
  Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "Why would a smart guy like Nathan Detroit
  accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /     fall in love with his own fiance?"
  accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/            -Benny Southstreet (Guys and Dolls)
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:21:14 CDT
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: UNFORGIVEN

>In Message Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:22:47 EST,
>  Milton Johnson <LIBMILT@CML.INDSTATE.EDU> writes:
>
>>> SPOILER......................
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) Clint's shooting at the end of the movie (when he avenges Ned) has improv
>   d
>> a
>>>  lot
>>> since the start of the movie (when he couldn't hit anything with a pistol)
>>>
>>    I think the alcohol had a great deal to do with it.  It was in
>>his drunken stupor that he was able to do the kind of "wicked" things
>>he was guilty of in the past, IMHO.
>
>    I agree with Milton's observation.  As I suggested in an earlier post,
>on the physical level, the alcohol would tend to hurt his ability to shoot.
>But if one assumes that his inability to shoot is primarily psychological,
>the alcohol would help explain the improvement.
>Currie Thompson
>

Right on.  State learning is the notion described above.

Joe "that psych dude" Daus   U of MO-Columbia
C444307@MIZZOU1.bitnet

         "Who's the asshole who owns this shithole?"
             --William Munny inquiring about me and my office space
               (closet) at school.
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:59:56 -0400
From:         "(Ens Alexander W Ellermann)" <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Satires

I saw a trailer for a movie named _Hexed_ the other week.
Looked like a spoof on _Fatal Attraction_ & othersuch films.
   It looked pretty bad.  I wouldn't see this one for free
unless it got *great* reviews.
ellerman
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:57:44 -0500
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Oscars

We all know there is alot of politicking in the Oscars.  I have seen
oscars go to individuals, not because that was the best performance
of the year.  But because they really deserved it (but didn't get the
oscar) for a previous performance or almost as a life time award.

I would love to see nominations go for the best performance of that
year and not sympathy voting.

Recent individuals/movies I though should have at least got nominated:

John Goodman for _Barton Fink_  (I thought he was brilliant, IMHO)
Danny Elfman for score of _Batman_  (Wasn't even nominated, although
Williams won for his rehash of the Indiana Jones movie)
Both documentaries: _Heart of Darkness_ (The documentary on Coppla's
movie) and _Roger and Me_ (the entertaining GM story)

There are more, but I better stop now.

Carol Doms
University of Missouri-Kansas City
cdoms@umkcvax1
cdoms@vax1.umkc.edu
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:49:12 PDT
From:         DU013@CALPOLY.BITNET
Subject:      Request for Information

From:  Mary Shaffer



Does anyone know the release dates for:

THE SEARCH FOR THE NILE (PBS/BBC series)
THE DAY AFTER TRINITY (PBS documentary)
THE RACE FOR THE DOUBLE HELIX (BBC made for TV movie?)

Thanks for your help.

Thanks,
Mary
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:44:35 -0400
From:         MDESCHUYTENE@SBCCMAIL.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Parodies of Movies

               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-8121

                                            Michel Deschuyteneer
                                            Department of Neurology, HSC
                                            516 444-1469
                                            02-Oct-1992 09:27am EDT
FROM:  MDESCHUYTENEER
TO:    VMSMail User _IN%"CINEMA-L           ( _IN%"CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET" )

SUBJECT: RE: Parodies of Movies

    Off the top of my head I'd suggest Mel Brook's HIGH ANXIETY
    (Hitchcock's movies) and SPACEBALLS (the STAR WARS trilogy), Polanski's
    THE FEARLESS VAMPIRE KILLERS OR PARDON ME BUT YOUR TEETH ARE IN MY NECK
    (any Dracula story), I'M GONNA GIT YOU SUCKA' (Black exploitation
    movies of the 70's), WHODUNIT (self explanatory I guess...), AMAZON
    WOMEN ON THE MOON (those low budget SF flicks) and CASINO ROYALE (the
    James Bond series).
    I'll try to remember some more once the caffeine I'm now ingesting has
    reached my brain neurons :-)

    MICHEL
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:23:08 PDT
From:         FRANK@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: The Name of the Rose

I enjoyed both the book and film, although as usual, the-film-wasn't-
nearly-as-good-as-the-book.  I made a big mistake by reading the
book while on my honeymoon.  This did not make a very good
impression on my wife.

The book is a very intense one.  There are many passages in Latin and
without a good Latin dictionary the essence of the story and how
rooted it is in Catholic dogma becomes hard to follow.

Because there is a lot of moving about theologically and story
wise the movie could not do justice to the book.  The obligatory sex
scene between the novice and the peasant girl was actually much more
innocent and the consequences of the coupling had much more of an
impact on the novice than was portrayed in the movie.

The movie was good and managed to capture the feel of 12th century
Europe/Catholicism that is portrayed in the book.

Just my nickels worth.

Frank
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:24:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
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From:         ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Bell, Book, and Candle

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     06-Oct-1992 11:23am DST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  VMSMail User _IN%"CINEMA-L           ( _IN%"CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET" )

CC:  _AUVM.BITNET"::IN%"AFCOLYER@PSULIAS.BITNET"
CC:  _AUVM.BITNET":: IN%"ELGFROEHRER@PSULIAS.BITNET"
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Subject: RE: Bell, Book, and Candle

Bell, Book, and Candle came first and neither one of the Dicks could hold the
latter to Jimmy Stewart.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Movie music?
From: george@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (George Ma)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:51:47 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Richard Robbins has composed some excellent soundtracks (yeah, instrumental
apart from a bit of opera in one) for Merchant Ivory's films of E. M.
Forster's novels A Room With A View, Maurice, and Howards End.

Since he did all three, he was able to keep a constant theme to the music,
which is a nice touch for those who watch all three movies. They do indeed
go well together. He says words to this effect in the notes for the Howards
End soundtrack (which I have and love... except now I need to get an amp
which does ambisonic decoding..arggh! :-).

Mark.

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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:17:56 -0500
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

Subj:   GOOD [bad] MOVIES

John,

I guess I'll be a minority of one on this list.  DANCES WITH WOLVES and
Kevin Costner have taken numerous hits.  I don't know if it is a delayed
critical backlash or what, but I find it surprising that so many people
who've seen this film have declared their hatred of it.  I won't argue
that it is a cinematic masterpiece, but I enjoyed the film.  I could
care less if the script is historically accurate in every minute detail,
as long as the story is captivating.  Yes, it was long.  Perhaps it
would have been tighter if edited down, but that didn't bother me.  I
have found that duration in a film is a relative experience.  If you
like the story, you don't really notice the time element as much.

I also liked GRAND CANYON which you apparently despised.  And as a final
point of disagreement, I happen to think that Mary McDonell not only can
act, but does so very well.  Her part in GRAND CANYON did not give her
much room.  I would recommend FRIED GREEN TOMATOES, but I have a feeling
based on your earlier comments that you probably wouldn't like this
either.  C'est la vie.

j-man

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:11:28 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Fame vs. American singer-performer film

Rick,
I think the film you're thinking of was one by Neil Jordan about a year or
two ago, but can't remember the title.  Beverly D'Angelo played the blonde.
Jeff Clark
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:48:04 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

>I am undoubtedly biased...but I still can't help feeling that BR fell short...
>ESPECIALLY the little tag at the end that tells how
>the peaceful Hurons were slaughtered x-many years later by another tribe.  It
>left a distinct impression in my mind that the author wished to blame the
>influence of the missionaries on their defeat...

>...given the assumptions of the film, isn't it reasonable to conclude
>that the conversion to Christianity by the Hurons might have contributed
>to their defeat by tribes less sensitive to..."turning one's cheek"...

It's certainly moot whether or not the Hurons' Christianity left them
vulnerable to aggression...but I can find no hint of any intent by
the authors to assign blame to the missionaries. Every blackrobe I've
ever known would leap on that assertion with Aristotelian frenzy,
as a perfect example of "post hoc ergo propter hoc" -- a rhetorical
fallacy that confuses sequence with causation.

Example: 95% of drug addicts drink milk as children...therefore
milk-drinking leads to drug addiction. Yes the movie depicts the
conversion of the Hurons, then mentions their defeat by the Iroquois.
Is this the same as blaming the defeat on the blackrobes?

Great Xavier's Ghost! Could we, as Thomas a Kempis suggested,
be mistaking emotion for zeal?

kjf-
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 08:47:00 EST
From:         Bill Felty <BILL.FELTY@UKWANG.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Good/Bad Movies? Ha!

I love this discussion of good/bad movies.  Like there is such a thing.
Everyone watches a film with different values, prejudices, likes, dislikes,
etc.  Who says I'm right if I like _Terms of Endearment_?  Who says
Roger Ebert is right?  Or you?  On the other hand, who's to say any of us
is wrong?

Granted, it's a fun topic to discuss.  However, the old adage proves true:

"An opinion is like an as*hole, everyone's got one!"
From: CX935C@GWUVM.BITNET
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Subject: Re: An odd question...
Date: 26 Sep 92 16:06:18 GMT
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Dr. Demento isn't on the air any more, but on Comedy Central I saw a salute
to him. It was like a half hour. Theyll probably show it again. It was pretty
good.
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:16:15 -0500
From:         Gary Graffagnino <ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Good [BAD] Movies

>From: Ray Hamel <RHAMEL@MACC.WISC.EDU>
>
>        I finally saw RAGING BULL, often acclaimed as the
>best film made during the 1980s.  I hated it.  A boring story
>about a collection of the most unsavory characters you could ever
>find together.  DeNiro has never been one of my favorite actors to
>begin with, but Joe Pesci did a good job.

Wow.  I loved Raging Bull.  As for DeNiro, the best actor of the last 15 years
(IMHO).  I thought he was so remarkably similar to the real Jake Lamata it was
uncanny.  Not only did he look like him (gaining 50 some-odd pounds for the
role) but the talked like him and acted like him too.  I thought the movie was
very authentic as well.

>        I liked TERMS OF ENDEARMENT when I first saw it, but it has
>lost some appeal with subsequent viewings.

Definately true.
                           ______
  Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "Are you lookin at me?
  accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /     Are you lookin at me?
  accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/      Are you lookin at me?"
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:03:19 -0400
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Anybody seen HERO?  Is it worth seeing on the big screen, or will it be just
as good on video?

--Anjani
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:26:21 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Meeting Venus et al

REPLY TO 09/29/92 12:30 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Shirley MacLaine

Debbie Reynolds too sweet to have been the model for a domineering,
manipulating mother?  Right.  That's what they said about Joan
Crawford.

Sorry, Dick, but I thought MEETING VENUS was one of the most
pedestrian films masquerading as an *art film* I'd seen in a long
time.  I thought it was written by a computer, or worse yet, the PR
department.  Let's see -- let's get a big name star from the U.S.
(female) and a big name star from Europe (male), set the scene in
glamourous capitals of Europe and in the glamourous (and cultured)
world of opera, and then have them fall in love (but of course one or
both are already married).  They'll throw tantrums (the artistic
temperament, you know) and then madly kiss and then throw more
tantrums.  This combination of ingredients is sure to sucker in those
art house types.

Well, the PR department forgot to hire a really good writer.  I
thought the whole thing was a slick, cliche-ridden formula
movie -- and it is no wonder it disappeared from the box office faster
than (dare I say it) HUDSON HAWK.

And, in answer to your question, I was so annoyed and insulted by
this movie that I didn't even notice if I thought it was a good or
interesting depiction of the world of opera.

I'll bet this is one movie (along with MAXIE) that Glenn Close won't
be putting on her resume.

Jennifer

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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:07:00 PST
From:         THOMPSON@UCRVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Grumpy Old Man

Does anyone know if this Rick Francis character is the same Rick
Francis that everyone was beating up on on Canada-L last year?

Jim
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:22:55 -0500
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: MOVIE MUSIC

Jason wrote:

>One film composer I can always pick out in a film is James Horner.

Yes, Horner is one of my favorites composer of film scores.  Along with
Korngold and Steiner (of the older works) and of current composers
already listed such as: Horner, Elfman, and others, whose names escape
me at this moment.

Carol Doms
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:01:22 -0400
From:         Ellen.Edgerton@SUADMIN.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

Re DANCES WITH WOLVES...for all the criticism I see about it being
too P.C. and shallow, I haven't seen anyone come forward and say that
it's simply a boring, simplistic >story< too.

I didn't see it in the theater but I did see it on PPV a few months
later.  I found it to be incredibly dull, and I think it turned me
off of Kevin Costner forever.  When it ended, I was taken by
surprise.  ("That's all?!?!?")

I'd like to see this BLACK ROBE...

Ellen
ebedgert@suadmin.syr.edu
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:07:14 -0500
From:         huddle@VTTCF.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Cinema-sniglet

Alexander W Ellermann writes:

>Cinematographically (is that a word), it takes some refreshing

I've struggled with a term here too, I usually opt for "visually",
but that isn't quite right, either.

People?

--
-scott
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:14:56 -0500
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Parodies of Movies

kjf wrote a comment on DANCES:

>DANCES was a Loony-Toon -- Noble Savagges vs. the Kavalry Klowns.

This reminded my of a "Tiny Toon" cartoon, I saw recently that parodied
_Sunset Boulevard_  with Elmira in the Gloria Swanson role.  They even
parodied various "camera shots" from the movie. Very Funny.

Can anyone recall other parodies (cartoon or live action) of other classic
or genre movies.  The Zucker/Abram combo comes to mind (AIRPLANE,
TOP SECRET, HOT SHOTS)

Carol Doms
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 08:54:25 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Ken Russell

REPLY TO 09/28/92 07:24 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Cable movies

Speaking of Ken Russell, I notice that the Bravo cable channel is
showing one of his BBC-produced TV films from the 1960s -- I think
it's on Anton Bruckner (he made a series of biographies of composers
for the BBC).  Jennifer Porro

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