From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:39:40 GMT
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David Navas (dnavas@oracle.uucp) wrote:
:
: >Really?  Well, in *my* universe the average hard drive isn't capable of
: >more than, say, 1.5-2MB/sec, which ISA can easily deal with, with plenty of
: >room to spare.  What about your universe?
:
: In my (ideal) universe, a bus would be doing a lot more than running a
: (single, even) harddrive.
:

OK, but since we don't live in your (ideal) universe, what's the point?

:
: I claim that my universe would be a lot more fun to live in than yours.
:

I can think of a million "more fun" universes.  Your point?  (Why is this
turning into a discussion about metaphysics?)

:
: Let me ask this question more explicitly -- Is something not useful because
: it's not normal?
:

Of course not, i.e., it may well be useful.  It is not useful, however, if it
ends up sitting around unused.

:
: Are there not current peripherals that can NOT be
: hooked up to a regular ISA bus because of ISA's lack of bandwidth?  Would
: you NOT find these peripherals attractive?
:

For example, a 32-bit bus-mastering SCSI controller?  I would find it useful
if, for example, I had to support many users.  I don't, and 99.9% of
computer buyers don't either.

:
: >What good is a 550 GB/s bus if all your peripherals being cranked at once
: >don't add up to 5MB/s?
:
: Because people would start making peripherals that could use the bus?
:
: Are you really missing the chicken-and-egg scenario you are proposing as a
: "defense"?
:

Hmm...  That's a good point.  I have to agree.

:
: Thirdly, laugh all you want, but try and get a job with any decent workstation
: company by telling them you have an in-depth knowledge of Intuition gadget
: construction on the Amiga, or fixing ISA-bus conflicts on the PC.  Watch as
: you get laughed out of your interview.
:

Is it me, or do you actually believe that these "decent workstation" companies
somehow have more of a right to exist, or are somehow more "serious", than
"personal computer" companies"?

:
: Sorry, maybe you missed it.  The point was that without someone else
: actually driving innovation into our beloved PCs, we'd have been in even
: worse shape.  Again, the driving force for change in the PC industry does
: not come FROM the PC industry.  This is dangerous.
:

Really?  Where does it come from?

:
: What, a more vivid representation of the real world?
: How does that, in your words "help you now"?  I agree, this is a great thing
: to have, but it is inconsistent to your "useful for human beings *today*".
:

Absolutely false.  I can make use of the 24-bit graphics card *today*, thanks
to DIG.

:
: The whole idea of a 66Mhz 486 is inconsistent to the same.  That doesn't
: make it a bad thing -- far from it.  It is merely inconsistent to praise
: the progress in one area and attempt to defend that lack of same in
: other areas.
:

Why is it inconsistent?  Effort is going into progress that benefits the user
in the most dramatic way, and I'm talking about *lots* of effort.  Yet you
look at one part of the system that hasn't changed in a long time (although
alternatives do exist), and call the whole thing "crippled".

Do you at least agree that I would be equally justified in calling the Amiga
"crippled"?

:
: Computers are tools when you tell me what it is I can do with them.
: Until then, they are a way for me to make a living.
:

You can make a living off them.  Obviously they are used by *somebody*
as tools.

:
: Sure, because you have a use for a screwdriver or a drill.  I have not found
: an application that "Joe Consumer" has any use for (above and beyond something
: like a Sega Genesis).
:

Maybe that's because these applications don't exist for the Amiga?  On my PC,
I use an application called "Quicken" to manage my finances, and to me, the
convenience was easily worth the price of the PC.  Of course, I also use my
PC for other things, but those could not really be classified as everyday
uses.

Also, why are we always talking about "Joe Consumer"?  What about people who
use computers in business?

:
: That's probably why more people own screwdrivers and hammers than computers.
:

That's also why more people own PC's than Amigas.

:
: On a little more serious plane, think about this for a minute.  Our
: intelligence is a direct result of the number of CONNECTIONS between our
: neurons, and NOT the power of our neurons in and of themselves.  Seems to
: me that 100million PCs with a really wicked-fast connection architecture
: could do some almost "interesting" things, like a REAL version of AI.
:
: And that, folks, is a whole lot more interesting than real-time image
: manipulation which is going to be driving a multi-billion dollar industry
: under the rather dubious title of "multimedia".
:

Yes, but is it useful for something?

:
: So, just what DO you do with your PC, then.  I mean, besides work?
:

I develop software as a hobby, I use the PC for word processing, I experiment
with music composition, and I manage my finances.  BTW, why are you excluding
work-related applications again?

:
: Tell me why 100million people need one?
:

Obviously, for thousands of different applications, including business uses.

:
: Yes, I was taking the reverse argument "that PCs are useful" and then showing
: how that's incredibly silly.  PCs are NOT useful.  They WILL be someday.
: Until that day, technology drives technology, not some unrealistic version
: of the universe where even "word processors" are somehow useful....
: [And they are, no doubt about it, but are they worth several thousand
: dollars in software and hardware useful?]
:

Whoa!  Where did you ever get this attitude?  Anyone else think that computers
are totally useless?

:
: David C. Navas
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+