From: mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills)
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Organization: University of Georgia Economics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:44:59 GMT

>> CJ Silverio
> D Bremley

Dipshit, leave the attributions in.  This is the second time you have
left them out entirely.

>[Irrelevant data charts deleted]

Irrelevant only because they proved you flat wrong.

>>What bothers me is how raving lunatics aren't one bit concerned
>>about living, breathing women, yet the idea of undifferentiated
>>tissue getting removed-- which nature does on its own, for 2/3 of
>>all conceptions-- sends them into frothing control freakouts.

>  anti-abortion = doesn't care about women ???  I don't think so...

*I* know so, and I know a hell of a lot more about it than you.

>  Undifferentiated tissue?  Do you realize that second and even
>  third trimester abortions are performed daily by the thousands?

Second-trimester, yes.  Third trimester?  By the thousands?  Where?
And I noticed you didn't quote your source.  That's typical fundie
intellectual dishonesty (if "intellectual" is the right word).

I also know that children are starvinng to death by the MILLIONS in
Africa, yet you don't seem to have any passion about that.  After
all, forcing women to undergo pregnancy and birth that they don't
even want is a hell of a lot more glamorous than saving wanted,
starving children.

>  Have you ever seen what get's sucked out of the womb?  

Do you know that very few fetuses are "sucked out of the womb" anymore?
(Now remember, anything less than 50% is an "irrelevant minority" to you,
like the married women who have abortions.)

BTW, Have YOU seen a suction abortion?  If so, what the hell were you
doing in the middle of a sterile operating room?

>It's arms,
>  legs, heads...  not "tissue".  

Oh really.  I have another source for you:


"On my third visit to the clinic, I made bold to ask to see the products
of some abortions.  I asked in such a way as to make refusal easy, but my
request was granted.  The aborted matter is placed inn small cloth bags
and put in jars awaiting disposal.  I asked to see the contents of one of
the bags of a typical abortion - a six- to nine-week pregnancy - and it
was opened and placed inn a small metal cup for examination.  I held the
cup in my hands and saw a small amount of unidentifiable fleshly matter
in the bottom of the cup.  The quantity was so little that I could have
hidden it if I had taken it into my hand and made a fist.

"It was impressive to realize that I was holding in the cup what many
people think to be the legal and moral peer of a woman, if not, indeed,
her superior.  I thought too of the Human Life Amendment that would 
describe what I was seeing as a citizen of the United States with rights
of preservation that would countermand the good of the woman bearer.  I
have held babies in my hands and now I held this embryo.  I know the
difference."

Is this the quote of some raving liberal?  Some leader of the pro-choice
movement?  Hardly.  It's Father Daniel C. Maguire, a Catholic priest,
describing his visit to the Milwaukee Women's Health Organization in
the article, "A Catholic Theologian at an Abortion Clinic: Weighing
Reality Against Doctrine," in _Ms._, December 1984, pp. 129-132.

Perhaps you should read this article and realize that there are NO easy
solutions inn abortion, such as the simple moral absolutes you advocate.
Perhaps it would inspire you to THINK and gain a little compassion.

>Since you're so gung-ho about
>  abortions, 

I don;t know anyone who is "gung-ho" about abortions.  Every single person
I know wishes there were no abortions, since there is no need for abortions.
Perhaps you'd care to tell us why you think CJ does not fit this description?

>why don't you go see for yourself what gets aborted!

She may not feel that it matters.  Or perhaps she has some respect for the
privacy of women unndergoing such an emotional event and would not dream
of intruding on that privacy in the way you suggest.  Or perhaps she 
understands that an operation room is not ann observation lounge for 
curiosity seekers.  Or perhaps she *has* seen what gets aborted, and it
hasn't changed her position.

I personally have *had* an abortion, and that experience galvanized my
pro-choice philosophy.

>  Well, I'm more interested in discussing Rush than abortion, so this
>  is all I have to say concerning abortion on alt.rush-limbaugh.

Yeah, suddenly uninterested because soundly beaten.  Well, that's one
less uneducated twit we'll have to listen to.  The door's that way.

-- 
Ferrari (mills@rolf.stat.uga.edu)
Xref: sparky alt.rush-limbaugh:10249 talk.abortion:49202