From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:46:16 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Dec21.201402.2852@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>Okay, I have a question.
>>
> 
> 	[description axed, etc...]
>  
> 	In heat of combat, you may not even notice the sternum.  I would not
> 	sweat that part.

Sorry, I do sweat that part.  Guy comes up from behind me, surprise attack. 
Even though I KNOW he's going to apply the thumb pressure, it still hurts like
hell and is a SERIOUS distractant.

>>(3)  You have about three seconds (a generous estimate) between the time the
>>bear hug commenced and the time your head is being dropped against the ground. 
> 
> 	Uh... exactly HOW is your head supposed to wind up in the floor
> 	when he has grabbed you whilst you were upright?  

Tip you sideways and let the side of your head do the talking.

>>Less time if you're being thrown into a wall.
> 
> 	This one could be a slight reason for concern, but you still have your
> 	legs that can be used to fend off the oncoming wall.

Again, let the side of your head talk to the wall.

>>
>>We've found that the best time to deal with the attack is the moment you feel
>>it happening.  
> 
> 
> 	You bet.
> 
>>It's an easy attack to pull off, and it's not too difficult to meet
>>your goal of slamming the other's person's skull.
>>
> 	Not too difficult to get out of either.  First thig to do is RELAX,
> 	both physically and mentally.  The physical relaxation will make
> 	you a VERY hard package to carry around, bear hug style.  Of course,
> 	you have to know how to properly relax (which is not as easy as it
> 	sounds).  

Only problem with relaxing is it makes it that much easier to throw your head
right where he wants it.  If you're upright, the attacker has to make
adjustments to get your skull and the ground at the right angle.  If you're so
relaxed that your head is flopping around like a dead fish, then he whips you
one way, whips you the other and WHAM!  Your head has been whipped straight
onto the ground (you may hear the voice of experience here).  And the attacker
isn't trying to carry you around.  He's trying to surprise you from behind and
slam your skull.

> 
> 	Another point to consider is that the guy hugging you has put his
> 	two primary weapons out of commission (fists) which is good for you.

Actually, he's using those weapons rather painfully against your sternum.

> 	In addition, he is essentially blind, since you say he has hidden
> 	his face to avoid a head butt.

There's not much he needs to see.  He knows where you are, he knows where the
ground is.  What else does he need?

>       Also, the first part that will hit the 
> 	wall will be his hands/wrists, which will not make him feel so hot.

Nope.  It'll be your head, if he has any idea what he's doing.

> 	And turning you upside down to slam you into the floor, head-first,
> 	will be IMPOSSIBLE if you become like jello.  Give him no help and he
> 	will be shit out of luck.  Now he's stuck holding onto a clumsey
> 	package that could remove his face if he let's go.

Nope.  Discussed that above already.

> 	Also, it should be easy to get your arms free if you are relaxed.
> 	In fact, they should slip right out of his grip.  Sounds crazy, but
> 	it works when you relax enough.  Water is hard to fight against!

Sounds like it might work if you have enough time and he's throwing you around
like shake-and-bake.  We've tried total relaxation, but you simply don't have
the time to play with here.

> 
> 	If Joe B. A. Dick wants to carry you around all night, let him.  All
> 	he'll acomplish is wear himself out.  Also, if he IS stupid enough
> 	to charge a wall,, a leg sticking out, off center, will cause a rolling
> 	motion to one side or another.  You have effectively redirected the 
> 	momentum such that HE winds up putting himself into the wall, or the
> 	surrounding furnishings/interior decoration.
> 
> 	-Andy V.
> 

"None of us have any time, my friend," as don Juan tells Castenada.  Such is
the case here.  In this instance, relaxing does not turn you into water or
jello to simply slip out of his grasp.  It turns you into a bag of
rice--cumbersome, but still easy enough to control.  And the thumb in the
sternum sucks pretty bad.  Try it and let me know how it works.

Thanks,
Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts