HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

            The rec.skiing Frequently Asked Questions List
                              -or-
   Everything you always wanted to know about skiing and were *just* about
   to ask by posting.

   The rec.skiing FAQ is a work in progress and is maintained by glen
   baker (glenb@sr.hp.com) Additions and corrections to the FAQ are 
   welcome. If you have an addition or correction to make please take the
   time to write it out in the format of the FAQ so that I don't have
   to try to figure out how to say what you're trying to say!

   Index:
       1) Warnings  
       2) Equipment
       3) Clothing
       4) Technique
       5) Transportation
       6) Lodging
       7) Miscellaneous
       8) Lest we become too serious

 --------------------- Section 03: Clothing ---------------------

 3.01) "My friend says he skis in blue jeans. Do I really need to spend 
       a bunch of money on expensive ski clothing?"

     Yes and no. First of all, jeans are probably the absolute worst
     thing you can wear in the mountains unless you're absolutely positive
     that it's going to be sunny and warm all day. Cotton holds moisture
     and becomes a terrible insulator when it gets wet. 

     Expensive clothes, however, are *not* necessary. If you're on a 
     budget then a pair of wool pants, a good warm hat (wool or 
     polypropolene), a good pair of gloves or mittens, and a warm jacket
     will work just fine. 

     Cardinal rule: if you get cold you'll get miserable.

     If you're going to really get into the sport and intend to go rain
     or shine then here's a list of stuff that will help lighten your
     checkbook:

       - Silk or polypro ski socks. Wool tends to itch and is often too
         bulky for a good fit in todays boots.

       - Silk or polypro thermal underwear. Wicks moisture away from the
         body and is easy to clean when it gets smelly.

       - Stretch pants or a lined shell. Stretch pants are usually warm
         but may not be all that waterproof. Shells are usually more 
         versatile but many people don't think they look as cool.

       - Various layers for the torso which may include polypropolene 
         pull-overs, wool sweaters, and the like. 

       - A light gore-tex or similar jacket. Heavy lined parkas are warm
         for those storm days but you can get the same warmth and far more
         versatility by layering underneath a shell.


 3.02) "What's the story on this Gore-Tex stuff?"

     Steve LaSala has written an excellent article on Gore-Tex. It's far
     too long to include here in the FAQ and deserves its to be posted
     and perused all by its lonesome. In brief, Gore-Tex is not totally
     waterproof...a wetsuit is much better. However Gore-Tex is a lot
     more comfortable on the hill.


From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:56:23 GMT
Subject: rec.skiing FAQ 02/7
Organization: What, me? Organized?
From: jills@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jill Scott)
Subject: Re:Jackson Hole lodging suggestions
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:53:06 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester
Keywords: Jackson Hole lodging    


>>I am seeking suggestions as to where to stay in or around
>>Jackson Hole for a week long trip over the New Year's
>>holiday.  It will be a rather substantial group so condos
>>are a definite possibility.  Please feel free to send
>>your comments both positive and negative and relate any
>>of the cool things you have found in that area.

I went there with a group of 200 people and stayed at the "Antler Motel".
The old woman who owns it is great!  She set up a place where we could 	
have a bonfire a little ways out of town and had a huge Elk dinner for us!	
The rooms are nice and the corner rooms have fireplaces.  There is a 	
hottub that fits about 50-60 people, and it's right in the center of town.
Right across from the Cowboy Bar!  

As for the cost I'm not sure exactly the price per room but we only paid $350
for the whole package which included the bus ride out there from Minnesota,
5 day of lift tickets, and 6 nights lodging!  Great place :)

I wish I was going with!
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Page me for powder (Re: rec.skiing FAQ 08/7)
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:44:44 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <Aug14.145925.62501@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
johnc@yuma.acns.colostate.edu (Cool John) writes:
>In article <1340297@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Bake Glenner) 
>writes:
>> 8.07) "How do I ski powder?"
>>   Don't!  Under no conditions should you ever ski powder! You could be 
>>   buried, lose your skis, catch an edge, etc.  Leave it for the experts. 
>>   If there's more than 36 inches of it, page me, I'll come and track 
>>   that nasty powder down, making it safe for you and your friends.

>For improved response time in Colorado, Ootah and Wyoming, page John Cooley.
>Page number (303) 498-XXXX, digital pager number 3962.  Self-documenting
>user prompts.  An emergency powder masher-downer will be dispatched
>IMMEDIATELY!  4WD Suburban stocked with 3 pairs of skis, cooler and powder
>suit.  Arrival guaranteed.

Well, how can one top these?
Provide our own explosive hand charges for clearing?
Who you goin' call?  Slab busters?

No fair, no fair, you guys start on an earlier time zone!

> (I really do have a pager, but if very many people actually called it,
>(say, as a prank) my life could get difficult.)

Oh, poor baby!

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: jym@cruz.denver.sgi.com ()
Subject: Re: yearly heliskiing note
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:59:00 GMT

In article <LAUNCE.92Aug13121750@apollo.med.utah.edu>, launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
|> My understanding was that many of the heliski runs were of Vail Back
|> Bowl variety [tm], i.e. gentle ego-builders for the well-heeled but
|> perhaps not particularly talented Bogner/LaCroix/croissant & espresso
|> set. :-) Of course one can choose one's own line, I suppose, though
|> possibly with severe consequences 

You'd be a major fool to try to ski outside the line suggested by the heliski
guide.  Also, there are many tree runs at the Monashees lodge of CMH that make
the steepest tree run at Vail look flat.  Most of the skiing above treeline 
though is pretty flat for obvious reasons.
jim t
From: hkelly@edsr.eds.com (Kelly Shuldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: New Mexico conditions in February????
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:43:23 GMT
Organization: EDS Research


>>Return-Path: <uunet!nas.nasa.gov!eugene>
>>Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:48:40 -0700
>>From: uunet!nas.nasa.gov!eugene (Eugene N. Miya)
>>Message-Id: <9208182048.AA21510@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov>
>>To: hkelly@edsr.eds.com
>>Subject: Re: New Mexico conditions in February????
>>Newsgroups: rec.skiing
>>In-Reply-To: <1992Aug18.152630.20626@edsr.eds.com>
>>Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
>>Cc: 
>>
>>Well?  Why didn't you post in Spanish?
>>8^)


Po'rque la versio'n de ASCII que tenemos aqui' no tiene vocales con acentos,
ni la letra "n" con la tilde.  Y tambie'n, no se' si El "Leroy" entiende
Espan~ol. 

His post made me laugh, though.  That's the first we've seen of him in a
while.

ks
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: yearly heliskiing note
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:15:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.142103.977@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
bep1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (bentz.e.puryear) writes:
>Of the hazards you list above the only one
>I would not have to worry about skiing in Colorado is the bird crashing.
>I was very impressed with the pilot of the helicopter and I did not worry
>about it. I would go heli skiing before bungee (sp?) jumping

All helicopter passengers should be concern about their helicopter.
You should of course be briefed on how to approach the thing, how
to deal with a crash, etc.  The Pilot is king.  Helicopters are
fairly unstable flying machines.  Gusts of wind are no joke, jet blast
is a problem with some ships, and always stay away from the tail rotor.
A rotor can hit a tree or a rock submerged by snow.
Winter mountain flying at altitude is a particular bad time for helicopters.
This is not like getting on an airliner, a lot of things are out of the
pilot's control.

Ames is the place where the country tests helicopters and V/STOL
aircraft.  Our machines get forced down all around the Bay and not
for poor pilots.

>I am taking donations for this year's trip please send money to my address
>below. Any questions feel free to e-mail or call.
>bep1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (bentz.e.puryear)

Nice try.  I like it.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:54:39 GMT
Subject: FAQ stuff again
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

Allright already! Given the recent barrage of request, both online and
off, I suppose I should post the FAQ again. This time the rules are 
different. I'm gonna annoy everybody and post each section as its own
basenote. If you have the time, please feel free to comment/add/subtract/
multiply/divide/whatever. There are still sections that NEED help and 
I'm not gonna pretend to know all the answers (this time).

 ..glen

 Note...I intend to include the southern skiing list posted here earlier,
 I'm waiting for permission from the author.
From: carlson@dwp.la.ca.us (Carlson Peters x7898)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Steamboat
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:28:33 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power

In article <1992Aug13.162022.1607@advtech.uswest.com> jsalmi@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (John Salmi) writes:
>In article <SSH.92Aug13073254@snow.boulder.ibm.com> <ssh@vnet.ibm.com> writes:
>>You're likely to *love* Steamboat...
>>--
>>Steve Hultquist                                      ...a rippin' kinda dude...
>>"No, really, you don't want to ski Colorado..."                     Boulder, Co
>
>
>no no no no.  Ski Vail.


I for one am really sick of these kind of replies.  After reading
several hundred, they loose any cuteness or cleverness or snideness
that they implied at one time.  If you don't want people to ski your
favorite state, county or ski area, then a resounding silence will
have the most effect.  If you want to add value to this group, take
time out for a thoughtful reply.  People need information, not hot
air.  If you really want to discourage people from coming try enacting
severe growth restrictions and insisting that resorts enforce reasonable
daily lift ticket limits. 

There.  I've said it. Now flame away.


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carlson Peters			L.A. Dept. of Water & Power
carlson@manta.dwp.la.ca.us	111 N. Hope St., Room 1129
213.481.7898			L.A. CA 90012
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Monty Python and the Quest for the FAQ
From: carlson@dwp.la.ca.us (Carlson Peters x7898)
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:21:56 GMT
Organization: Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power

>Well, I've checked news.answers and archive sites, but I still can't
>find it...  Would some kind soul be willing to either post it to the
>net or tell me where I could ftp a copy of it?  Thanks..

Someone tried to create one last year but I think most people will
find a FAQ on skiing to be vague and general at best.  The one I read
was really aimed towoards the novice and I'm sure that there are a lot
of books that can do a much better job.  Skiers come in so many
flavors and sizes. There are hundreds of possible destinations, and
thousands of lodging and resturant choices.  And a zillion opinions on
each choice.

I've written mini FAQ's on Summit County CO and Southern CA.  I am more
than happy to email them or even post them if there is enough interest.

  
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carlson Peters			L.A. Dept. of Water & Power
carlson@manta.dwp.la.ca.us	111 N. Hope St., Room 1129
213.481.7898			L.A. CA 90012
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Banff
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:28:17 GMT
	<1992Aug11.180930.27552@walter.cray.com>
	<1992Aug12.161314.11639@seas.smu.edu>
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: ISSC Boulder

As a novice, don't worry about heli-skiing.  In short, it's a form of skiing
that uses a helicopter instead of "normal" lifts.  It's wild (in every way),
and can offer some of the most pristine powder anywhere.  It can also dish up
some of the nastiest conditions a skier is likely to encounter...
--
Steve Hultquist                                      ...a rippin' kinda dude...
"No, really, you don't want to ski Colorado..."                     Boulder, Co
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: dennisp@kpc.com (Dennis Preston)
Subject: Re: long hot summer
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:17:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.201546.24116@sei.cmu.edu> naz@sei.cmu.edu (Neal Zundel) writes:
>Can anyone recommend some cool ski movies?  It's been a long
>summer and I have to appease myself with ski movies to get 
>by.  So far I have been watching Ski School every night. Obviously,
>I like the movie, but a little variety would never hurt!!
>
>Thanks
>-neal
THE BLIZZARD OF AAHS

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Subject: Re: Australian Skiing
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:54:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.022451.26807@leland.Stanford.EDU> poahbear@leland.Stanford.EDU (David G Lawson) writes:
>  Does anyone know how late the season lasts in Australia?? I'll
> be there at the end of September. Too late?? Need a ski fix bad ...

The Australian ski season officially commences on the Queen's Birthday
long weekend (the Monday is a Public Holiday) , which is usually around
the 10th June.  There is not often skiable snow on this weekend. The
resorts will remain open until the end of the first week of October
(end of 2 weeks of school holidays), or possibly later if the snow is
good enough and the people keep coming.  Last season the major resorts
stayed open until the end of the 2nd week in October, and closed with
skiable snow but no demand.

September skiing brings spring skiing conditions.  You may get
snowfalls, rain, sunshine or fog.  The snow becomes very wet/slushy on
North facing slopes when the sun is out, particularly towards the end
of September as the temperatures on sunny days can head towards 10
Celsius or higher.  Snowfalls are not very common after about
mid-September, and the snow quality drops off.

The alpine areas had badly needed snowfalls over Monday to Friday of
last week, dropping upwards of 40cm in the major resorts. Average
snow-depths are around the 60-100cm mark.  More snow is expected over
the next day or two.  Due to the rapid changes which can occur, it is
difficult at this stage to say how good the snow will be in late
September, except that more snowfalls will be needed between now and
then.

Just for info, the major resorts are in New South Wales, roughly about
6 hours drive south-west of Sydney (2 hours from Canberra), or in
Victoria, 3-5 hours drive north-east of Melbourne.

Oh yeah - I was up at Mt. Buller for nine days, came back last night.
And I'm off on Friday night for another week.  It may not be Utah, 
but it _is_ snow, and there's no-one around mid-week.

--
Dave Harsant,
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: yearly heliskiing note
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:40:07 GMT

In article <LAUNCE.92Aug13121750@apollo.med.utah.edu>
launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
>My understanding was that many of the heliski runs were of Vail Back
>Bowl variety [tm], i.e. gentle ego-builders for the well-heeled but
>perhaps not particularly talented Bogner/LaCroix/croissant & espresso
>set. :-) Of course one can choose one's own line, I suppose, though
>possibly with severe consequences (see aforementioned SI article).
>Even those runs that are "casual" looking can hold great danger, as
>last year's *big* CMH disaster attests.  Anyone who skis the BC
>*ought* to know this. 

Well resorts control the terrain, guides basically can only control the
skiers.  Most of the runs are in terrain which is not as steep as controlled
resort runs.

>   > It's obnoxious to X-C'ers in many areas 
>
>Yeah, no shit. One of the best days of last years dismal season, we
>were slowly making our way up Cardiac bowl when the PowderTurd helis
>dumped a couple of dozen beaters right on the ridgeline we were headed
>for. Some of those guys sucked so bad that the bomb craters they left
>from their many falls completely wiped out the virgin run. Sheesh. 

Yeah, standing there, assuming you don't know the abilities of your fellow
skiers doesn't give me a lot of confidence.  I expect to get blown away
but the average helihound is a pretty average powder skier.  I feel worse
when a lift is placed however.  Pt. Supreme was a nice place until they
put a lift there.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: johnc@yuma.acns.colostate.edu (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Bump Run Info. Request/Quest
Summary: MJ is good, but...
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:59:15 GMT
Followup-To: rec.skiing
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <0095F2C6.23BFB360@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:

>P.S.  All you Winter Park/Mary Jane lunatics need not bother Emailing...quite
>likely you're blessed w/ the highest concentration of excellent bumps in the
>entire US (maybe the world)!

Boy, I'll bet you get lots of nice, warm flames for that assertion!  MJ is
great, but lots of people have other opinions, e.g., the front side of 
Telluride, Pallavacini (sp?) at Arapahoe Basin, some fine runs at Jackson
Hole, etc.  Steamboat is blessed with some runs which seem to build nice,
round, even bumps.  And, of course, for sheer terror, it's hard to beat a
completely iced over bump run in the Eastern U.S., with wicked stairstep
bumps and no actual snow ("Look, mom, I can see myself!").

MJ has a good selection of bump runs, but vertical is less than 1,600 feet,
and some of them get too much sun.

(How's this for a recipe: Dump 2 feet of heavy, wet spring snow on a southwest-
facing bump run.  Cut it up some but don`t ski it enough to pack it
significantly.  Expose to nice spring afternoon (45-55 degrees F).  Melt and
compact to 15 inches.  Freeze solidly overnight. Enjoy the next morning! 
Yeccch!)

So, there you have it.  Don't ski Winter Park/Mary Jane.  Go away.  Ski Vail.
And Winter Park doesn't have any bumps anyway.  It's groomed.  All of it.
Every little bit.  You wouldn't like it.  There's no airport.  You have to
drive over Berthoud Pass.  It's a death trap in winter.  Avalanches.  No guard
rails.  Boulders.  Bowling for buses.  Carnage.  Mayhem.  I'm not making
this up.

          John Cooley
          no .sig today
From: antae991@emory.edu (Howard D. Seidel)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Jackson Hole lodging suggestions
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:09:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: emoryu1.896
Distribution: rec.skiing
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

6500shd@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Stuart Dimock) writes:
: I am seeking suggestions as to where to stay in or around
: Jackson Hole for a week long trip over the New Year's
: holiday.  It will be a rather substantial group so condos
: are a definite possibility.  Please feel free to send
: your comments both positive and negative and relate any
: of the cool things you have found in that area.
: 
: Thanks in advance!
: 
: -Stuart
: 
: 
: --
: Standardized, homogenized, sterilized,
: I've heard that song before.   -Scatterbrain
: 
: Dimock@voodoo.ucsb.edu   Merlin@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu

Last year, I spent a week at Jackson Hole after New Years.  First
of all, it was amazing.  We didn't have a lot of fresh snow, but
the crowds were light, so it was fine.

As far as lodging, first of all, stay in TETON VILLAGE.  This is
the area at the Jackson Hole slopes.  The town of Jackson Hole is
about 12 miles away.  At Teton Village there is a wide range of
accomodations, ranging from The Hostel (where I stayed) to private
homes and condos to rent.  There is a central reservations 800
number at Teton Village.  They will be able to give you all the
best info and arrange everything over the phone.  I don't have the
800 # with me at work, but call 800-555-1212 (information) and they
should be able to find it for you.

Enjoy.  The skiing at J.H. is amazing!
David
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: davids@gardener.lanl.gov (David Simmons)
Subject: Re: Salida, Colorado--Monarch Ski Area?
Originator: davids@feynman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:31:29 GMT


In article <1992Aug15.192651.42371@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|> Dear netters,
|> 
|> My parents are getting a cabin in Salida, Colorado.  Monarch Ski Area
|> is right near there (18 miles).  I've never been there.  How is it?
|> I do know that the vertical is not all that hot (1000 feet).  Anyone
|> been there?
|> 
|> I'm working on the ski report script.  Let everyone know about it later.
|> 
|> Go Chiefs!!
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> |  Charles A. Thompson               |  thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
|> |  University of Kansas              |  thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
|> |  _Avid_ SkiBum                     |  OS/2 2.0 is for YOU!!!               |
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> |  Look for Recipe Pro(tm), an interactive recipe database, coming soon...   |
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been there.  coldest place on the planet ;-)  Seriously, I remember
this place from my racing days, and all I remember about it was that it
was COLD!

ski vail ;-)
-- 

David G. Simmons
davids@lanl.gov

If I said it, LANL didn't... 

-- 

David G. Simmons
davids@lanl.gov
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Steamboat
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:32:54 GMT
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: ISSC Boulder

You're likely to *love* Steamboat...
--
Steve Hultquist                                      ...a rippin' kinda dude...
"No, really, you don't want to ski Colorado..."                     Boulder, Co
Newsgroups: rec.skiing