From: walter (Walter Lego)
Subject: Re: Finding Romantic Partners (long)
Followup-To: soc.singles
Reply-To: nobody
Organization: Twisted Pair Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:12:51 GMT

In article <3a5mrrl.barry@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
>In article <194m+9=.shannah@netcom.com> shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller) writes:
>>This is precisely why the ratios are (IMHO) bullshit.  They give a false
>>sense of the dynamics.  
>>
>	The ratio matters, Teri. You're analyzing your example from
>the wrong end. The 39 guys in the cowboy boots would have their
>odds improved considerably if there were 40 women there instead of
>two, because the odds that at least _one_ of 'em will like Kevin's
>boots and his conversation goes up enormously.

Then it is not the ratio but the total number of women that is relevant.
For each individual, the chances that one of the women will like him goes 
up with the total number of women present.

On the other hand, the ratios matter for the dynamics that Terry hasn't 
considered.

Terry is right if the woman at the party knows exactly what she wants and
the characteristics she wants is easily observable (such as cowboy boots)
and she isn't swayed by distractions to that goal. But in the real world
it rarely ever happens that way. The women aren't always that focused on
what they want, a lot of the men don't always have obvious characteristics
that she can completely write them off immediately for and most of the 
women are more intent on having fun at the moment than look seriously for 
potential mates.

When people complain about bad ratios, they are complaining about the 
context in which they have to interact which is not something they feel
comfortable with. Shyness is just one reason but not a necessary reason
for them to feel that way.

The group interaction dynamics change with the ratios. When there
is a very small ratio of women, there are usually several males attempting to
get the attention of each woman. Unless the woman is approaching and
initiating conversation with different men, which is rather rare, it is a 
man's burden to make himself visible. But herein lies the problem.

1. The man might be shy *in the presence of other men* to initiate small talk.

2. The man might not like or be good with small talk but it is difficult to do
   anything else until you get the woman's attention.

3. Finding a topic of conversation that may be of common interest with a
   woman is easier in a one-one conversation than with a group. If no one
   else has an interest in something you bring up, the conversation shifts
   to someone else's topic while on a one-one situation you have the freedom to
   explore possible topics of interest. It might be difficult to get into
   a one-one situation when the ratios are bad for the men.

4. Other men might be more wittier and have cleverer one-liners which might
   make one man feel lost or at least feel relatively inadequate. This is
   reinforced by the woman's obvious enjoyment at such talk (even though
   she might not think very highly of the person making such talk).

Of course, there are men for whom none of the above is a problem and they
manage to be successful regardless of how many women there are. But one
cannot assume that this is the case for every man or that every man can 
learn to behave that way. Hence some people may prefer to be in situations
where there is a better likelihood of interacting in a way that they are
comfortable with.

The ratios may be less of a problem in situations like the class room where
the same people may be around for a relatively longer period of time and hence
gives an opportunity for a less pressurized selection. Even in these situations
the extroverts are favored over the introverts. If the ratios are better, 
than even the introverts may have *a chance* to interact which is after all
a necessary pre-requisite for finding a mate.

						Walter

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Newsgroups: soc.singles