From: jcmarx@bnr.ca (JC Marx)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: handguns (?)
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:50:05 GMT
Reply-To: jcmarx@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <1992Aug18.181020.13560@nmsu.edu>, loki@acca.nmsu.edu (Entropic Destroyer) writes:
|> JC Marx (jcmarx@bnr.ca) wrote:
|> : In article <0095F210.3CB54940@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
|> 
|>  <why not use a handgun for defense against rape? (summary)>
|> : 
|> : In addition to what DC has already said, handguns are not normally as accessable
|> : as a small container of mace. 
|> 
|> This is not true if the pistol is in a behind-the-hip holster, and your keys
|> are... let's see... did you remember them?  in your pocket?  purse?  maybe you
|> locked them in the car or left them in the office?

Behind the hip holster? I guess so, provided the person is properly dressed.
Of course, as I have mentioned before, that would also require that the gun
has a bullet in the chamber - many, many, many shooting accidents ocurr from
"fire ready" guns either going off accidentally or from children tampering
with the gun.

|> 
|> : Mace is legal 
|> 
|> This is not always true.  some varieties of mace like products are illegal
|> in some parts of the US; ie, I believe capstun is illegal in CA.  All varieties
|> of mace, knife, stick, gun, comb, hatpin, fist and open hand seem to be illegal
|> in the UK...

And of the places where mace is not legal - guns are?

|> 
|> : and can be attached to one's car
|> : keys, which are quite often already in one's hands anyway. Probably wouldn't
|> : do to have a woman, who thinks she is being stalked through the mall, to have
|> : her handgun ready, esp if a) no bullet is breached, and b) she is carrying
|> : several packages. 
|> 
|> so, she carries in a behind-the-hip holster, and if directly confronted, she
|> can DROP the packages...

Sorry, too late. By the time you drop the packages, draw your gun, click off
the safety, take-aim - you lose. My scenario was one of which the victim was
already suspicious and was carring the mace (on a key chain) openly and
readily in their hands - ready to use.

|> : Beside, IMO, most woman aren't as vengeful (sp) as men. If 
|> : some guy(s) tried to rape me, I would definately be trying to kill them. 
|> : Woman don't normally have this thirst for blood and simply wish to escape
|> : the attacker, which frankly, makes much more sense.
|> : 
|> it makes sense for ANYONE to avoid this kind of confrontation WHEN THEY CAN...
|> but it is not possible for every person to avoid every potential confrontation!
|> 
|> as for women not having a vicious streak... you must not know some of the
|> women i do.  :)

Sorry to disappoint many of you out there, but men are proven to be more capable
of violence (especially killing) than women (in general).

|> : In addition to the above, one must be trained to use a handgun effectively - 
|> : no training required for mace. Mace goes in the face (an easy target in most
|> 
|> I don't know that this is entirely true... a handgun certainly does require
|> at least a modicum of training to be used effectively.  but no training for
|> mace?  sounds like asking for trouble... one can learn to use a handgun safely
|> with a few hours (like one or two) of instruction.  one can learn to use a
|> handgun safely and effectively with about a week's instruction.

Here we go again. So many people have this misconception that a few days using
a gun prepares them for using the weapon in a stressful situation - THIS IS
BULLSHIT. Yes, the few days of training teaches a person how to load and shoot
the gun, but not how to handle it in a stressful, deadly situation - there is
a HUGE difference.

|> 
|> : instances), however, a bullet must be aimed with precision. If the woman
|> : hesitates, even for a second, her own gun could be turned against her. She is
|> : more likely to make that deadly hesitation while aiming a handgun.
|> : 
|> 
|> the point being, the effectiveness of chemical sprays available to the
|> public is variable, and can be unreliable.  they can be an excellent deterrent
|> but may not stop a determined attacker.

As with all of our discussions on defense, no solution is a cure-all, perfect
one.

|> : Lastly, a small container of mace is several times cheaper than a handgun.
|> : 
|> yup.  and it makes sense to me to carry both.
|> 

I am not an advocate of guns. In fact, I have quite a collection. But I have
used them enough to respect them, and I would NEVER EVER let (if given a
choice) a loved one carry a gun with only 5-6 days of training. Using a gun
in a self defense reflex-driven situation requires that the operator be
trained enough to use the gun BY SECOND NATURE. NO THINKING IS ALLOWED.

JC

P.S. In response previos statements in other posts: Wrong, I *do* carry a gun
on occassion (dictated by circumstance).
Newsgroups: talk.rape