From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: GP wants you, was Re: government organic food purchas
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:27:17 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov17.143942.10426@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV writes:

 > >As I've said, we have to come to grips with the fact that current 
 > >production methods must continue until we find better ways.
 >  
 > I don't think anyone here's said otherwise.

Dave, the attacks made here have been specifically by those promoting
organic growing against those they perceive to be fighting to retain
the capitalist monoculture designed by evil chemical corporations
and bankers to exploit farmers and pollute the world to their own
neferious ends. There is no such conspiracy, and perhaps such wholly
paranoid promoters of singular alternatives might just relax a little
so we can all begin working together to sort out some of the problems
involved with feeding people.

I too am here for the duration. If I have a comment to make, I will
make it without anticipating that some hysteric will want to be
attacking me and bogging the discussion down in political hype and
semantics.

 > >I admit, organic is one of those ways, but it doesn't even come close to
 > >meeting the requirement of a hungry world.
 >  
 > Why not?

The question is not concerned with *why*, but *how*. Perhaps you can
enlighten us a little on what you have to say on the matter instead of
carrying on with this crap.

 > >For your information, organic production
 > >methods are just ONE of a host of disciplines that are and have been worked
 > >on for at least ten years. Integrated Crop Management techniques pull together
 > >the sciences of biology, mathematics and agriculture. Plant and animal
 > >breeding produces species which are resistant to pests and diseases in a non
 > >polluting way...
 >  
 > I have concerns about genetic engineering, reliance upon hybrids, and the use
 > of monocultures, but that's a can of worms of another color.

Is it indeed? Perhaps here again you can edify us with some reliable
information we can independently and impartially assess for ourselves.

 > >all of these things, when used, reduce our dependency on chemicals. How come
 > >none of you out there have mentioned them?
 >  
 > Perhaps because they're unproven, unsustainable, or contrary to our beliefs.

Well yes; "contrary to your beliefs" sounds much closer to what you are
grinding your molars over than any sort of reality. What is proven is
what produces crops, not words on computer screens, however it might be
maintained for the moment while more sustainable strategies are being
implemented.

The problem is in supplying sufficient energy and nutrients to those
crops that they will produce food in sufficient abundance to feed the
massive plague of *homo sapiens sapiens* (some irony!) now on the face
of the earth, yes?

 > >Perhaps it's because you didn't know about them...
 >  
 > Maybe, maybe not.

Do you, or do you not? Please do offer whatever material you do have
to the forum, so we can assess it for ourselves. Or are you in fact
merely another programmer with access to a specialist forum solely
through your assignment to maintaining computer workstations linked to
the Internet, with nothing much worth our wasting time and energy over
anyway?

For that matter, here on this forum also all posters might reasonably
be expected to identify themselves with an appropriate .sig, and to
declare their interest in the various threads being pursued.

 > >and that, Mr. London, could be construed as reason 
 > >enough to pass your flame right back at you.... you aren't informed enough
 > >to be able to contribute any insight besides `I love organic' 
 >  
 > How did you reach that conclusion?  Are you *that* sure there's no other reason
 > they haven't been mentioned?

Please do offer some other reason. Please respect our intelligence and
show us what you have to offer which might be implemented in practice.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
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Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture