HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:18:03 GMT
	<4664@bimacs.BITNET> <1993Jan25.180754.10043@nynexst.com>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1993Jan25.180754.10043@nynexst.com> schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:

   In article <4664@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
   >  To my best knowledge the origionator of that idiotic custom of puting
   > the garbage beneeth the western wall stones is Rabin who hold the
   > title of chief of staff during the six day war.
   > When he arrived to the western wall he put there some written paper.

   > Religious persons never put papers there.

   Wrong.  Completely, patently, utterly, wrong.

   BTW, the Throne Above has -always- been a local call in Yerushalayim.
   :-)

Since David moved the Aron Koshesh there in any case.

So, what is the origin (if known) of the custom?  What is it's minimum
age?

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.african.america
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: The term "anti-Semitism" (was: Re: Martin Luther King Quotes)
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:12:53 GMT

Say this for Chris Bertholt: not for him the simple solution of
going to a reliable source for the origin of a term when he can
instead do some (inconclusive) acrobatics.

Why not go to the source?  Here is the highly respected German
dictionary, Duden:

       Antisemit [geb. um 1879 von dem dt. Publizisten W. Marr]
       Gegner des Judentums, Feind der Juden..

       ([used in 1879 by the German publicist W. Marr] Opponent of
       Judaism, enemy of the Jews..)

Nowhere a suggestion of Arabs, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc.

Now if Mr. B. will favor us with a (reliable) source for his
assertion ("it's a well-known historical fact") that it was the
Zionists wot done it, the issue can be resolved.

..Until the next twit comes along, that is.

Norman Miller
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Niddah and Pregnancy
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:44:32 GMT

etzhadat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Hydro Man)

> *Jewish law prohibits men from using contraceptives until they have fulfilled
> their obligation (one boy and one girl) to have children.

That's according to Beit Hillel.  According to Beit Shammai, one's
obligation is fulfilled after two boys.

Let's light up those torches.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:22:18 GMT

In article <106126@netnews.upenn.edu>, hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Levene) writes:
> In article <gZ4PXB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>>I've just read it in the news 
> 
>>BEZEK,  the israeli telephone company, installed a fax next to the Kotel
>>(Wailing Wall) where everybody can send a prayer or petition to God, and
>>an employee of the company puts them  afterwards in the gaps between the 
>>stones of the wall.  The best of it: this service is free of charge! The
>>fax number is:                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>                        (++ 972 2) 61.22.22
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
> 
> Actually, I read in an "Off the Newswire" report today that the service is
> 
> ****NOT**** Free of Charge!
> 
> I tend to believe this since otherwise the phone company employees would be
> overwhelmed with unpaid service calls.
> 
> So, check with your local phone companies for the final word on the charges if
> there are any.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> --
>  Howard B. Levene              |    "I'll call you the next time I pass
>    You'd think I'd use someone |         through your star system."
>       else's opinions?         |          -- Commander Wil Riker, ST:TNG
>  hlevene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu  |  Data is a Mechanical Engineer, too.

Of course it is not toll-free from outside Israel - there are no services
which are toll-free over international networks even if they are toll-free
internally, except by arrangement with the telephone company in the countries
from which the call originates, and that is certainly not so in this case.

Laurence
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who did Cain marry?
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:15:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <4658@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>>>
>>>You should not ask those questions because all that happened befor the
>>>Tora was given!
>>>on those days just a married-to-another woman was forbidden.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>(Arthur S. Kamlet);
>>I'm not sure how I put this together with the 7 laws for Bnai Noach.
>>As I understand them, by the time of Noach, G-d had commanded all
>                                      ^^^^^
>>descendants of Noach not to commit incest.  Wasn't this commandment
>>in effect for Avraham and all of his descendants?
>>              ^^^^^^^^^
>
>1. The laws were in effect for all ADAM decendance.
>   ( Meat was alloud to Noach decendants only if the animal is killed
>   before eating)
>
>2. As to  "incest" Sorry I do not know the exact definition of that
>   English term. Meaning of English terms are relevant just as far as
>you have an interest in the ideas of the translators.
>Whoever in order to get an answer to your problem just read again the
>last line of my paragraph you cited.  ( I ubderlined it).

I don't have a good dictionary definition of incest, but it includes
sexual relations between a parent and child as well as between
brother and sister.  Perhaps it extends to some or all of the 
prohibited relations we read on Yom Kippur.

In particular, Lot's daughters had to get Lot drunk before having
sexual intercourse with him;  that indicates they knew it was wrong
at that time.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Disneyland to offer kosher food
Originator: schwartz@baba
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:39:03 GMT


In article <147943@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
> According to today's newspaper, Disneyland will start to offer kosher
> food at two of its restaurants. 
          ^^^

Dairy and meat?  :-)

-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hexham@acs.ucalgary.ca (Irving Hexham)
Subject: Re: PC arguments - Cults and Deprogramming
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 16:04:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

	In fact there is an extensive academic literature on the
subject of deprogramming and an even larger one on cults. In
general it is safe to say that very few scholars, other than a
small group of psychologists, support the idea that members of
new religions are brainwashed. It is also very important to note
that the few studies which do support the brainwashing thesis are
not based on any form of random sample or other scientifically
validated criterea. In fact they are self-selected studies made
of people who were deprogrammed before they met the psychologist
who said they had been brainwashed. Such "scholarship" has
obvious flaws. The best introductory works to the subject are:-

Saul Levine, RADICAL DEPARTURES, New York, Harcorurt, Brace and
Jovanovich, 1984.

James Richardson, ed., THE BRAINWASHING-DEPROGRAMING CONTROVERSY,
Lewiston, Edwin Mellen Press, 19?

David Bromley & Anson Shupe, STRANGE GODS, Boston, Beacon Press,
198?

Eileen Barker, THE MAKING OF A MOONIE, Oxford, Blackwells, 1984.

	More recently Eileen Barker produced a book for Her
Majesties Stationary Office, (British Government Publishers) on
cults, deprograming etc. But, I don't have the title to hand.

	Numerous scholarly articles on these subjects can be
found in SOCIOLOGICAL ANALYSIS and THE JOURNAL FOR THE SCIENTIFIC
STUDY OF RELIGION. May I cordially suggest that instead of
offering personal anecdotes or hearsay evidence readers of the
net consult the literature and existing research before sounding
off on such controvercial topics.

Hope this is helpful.

Irving Hexham
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cleaning up SCJ
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:48:34 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

> Unfortunately, there are some seriously clueless newbies that are
> hellbent on trashing SCJ, refusing to respect the appropriate topics,
> and absolutely unwilling to discuss things in e-mail with people who
> point out their mistakes and idiocies.
> -- 
> -Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
-----
While irrelevent postings to s.c.j. may be annoying and take up the 
ever-precious bandwidth, I think we can live with them while occasionally 
reminding people to take the more irrelevent conversations elsewhere 
NICELY.  After all, many of the _relevent_ postings are trivial and 
repetitive to some people, but serve the purpose of further debate.

As to Wiener's problem with people refusing to talk to him, I assure you 
it is not because people are unwilling to defend their views in a 
rational argument.  It no doubt has to do with the immature, insulting, 
holier-than-thou, abusive way he has of telling every person he
disagrees with that they're stupid, ignorant and couldn't possibly know 
what they're talking about.

His attitude is clearly exhibited in the fact that when nobody will
talk to him, he assumes the problem is with everybody else.

As with before, Wiener, all abusive e-mail directed at me will be 
forwarded to your sysadmin without comment.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Yoman Ben Gurion
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:01:26 CST


	I need help in finding the Hebrew source of a couple of
	sentences from Ben Gurion's _diary_ (yoman). I would 
	appreciate if someone with access to the 1937 material 
	will email me for more details.

	Thanks,

	Noam

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: marrage question
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:25:49 GMT

In article <93020.200520ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Eric Schweitzer <ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I have heard that, according to the Talmud, there are 4 ways to become
>betrothed (keseph-by payment of money; shetar-by delivery of contract;
>bi'ha-intercorse with a commitment of marrage; hulla-meeting under a
>huppa).

No, there are three.  The fourth you mention is the technical
method for performing the first two.  A legal "transaction must be
performed in front of two witnesses who can testify that it was
done correctly.  This is also why the witnesses sign the Kesuva.

>
>Similarly, is there more than one way to be married? Does there have to be a
>Rabbi presiding? (Of course, I am asking about a Jewish wedding, not a civil
>ceremony. This will settle a long standing argument between my wife and I).

THe presence of a Rabbi is only required in order to have someone
who knows enough to make sure that all the details are correct.  It
should be done with a minyan so that all the blessings can be
said.  However, all it really requires is to give the woman a ring
saying "Harei at Mekudeshes li..." in front of two kosher witnesses.

In fact it is thought to be an urban legend that high school
students fooling around with a ring can find themselves married and
require a get.  Actually it has happened and the last time it was
mentioned people posted that they were there in some of those cases.

>
>Thanks.


_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: @SEARN.SUNET.SE: 27916070@PLEARN.BITNET
Subject:      MASTURBATION/HANDSHAKING Halachah-Forbidden?
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <@SEARN.SUNET.SE: 27916070@PLEARN.BITNET>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:18:37 GMT

Are the following things forbidden by Halachah (Jewish Law)?
(1) Fe/male MASTURBATION
(2) HANDSHAKES
    (a) Jewish Female:Jewish Male
    (b) Jewish:Nonjewish
        (aa) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Idolater/ress
        (bb) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Nonidolater/ress
Your references, opinions, comments, etc. much welcome. Thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: barry@dingus.osf.org (Barry Perlman)
Subject: Re: How do Jews reconcile science and philosophy with their faith?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:07:13 GMT

Hi,
	Reconciling science and faith may not be as difficult as you think.
Consider the case of our calendar.

	According to the Jewish calendar, the universe was created 5753
years ago.  If these years are the roughly-350-day years we presently use,
then science and faith are contradictory.  But just what is a year?  
	According to faith, God created the universe in six days.  But what
is a day?  How can a day be measured as 24 hours if there are no sun and 
Earth?  Perhaps the biblical days of creation are God's days, not the 24-hour
days used by humans.   And who are we to know how God measures time?  
	So too with years.  Counting years is inaccurate if not "inflation-
adjusted".	
	
	Also interesting to note, Dr. Einstein (himself a believer) 
established rather conclusively that time is elastic.

	I see less conflict between science and faith than I do between
science and a literal interpretation of scripture.  If the scripture is
read as metaphor, where is the conflict?  Perhaps relevant to this is that
I regard it as the hieght of arrogance to claim to know the ONE true 
interpretation of scripture.

	After all that, I am an agnostic.  Go figure.
	

	Barry

=====================================================================
Barry Perlman                                     11 Cambridge Center
email: barry@osf.org                              Cambridge, MA 02142
Open Software Foundation                          Tel: 617-621-8828
Distributed Management Environment (DME)          Fax: 617-621-0584
From: sutin@helios.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Thirteenth Tribe
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:33:46 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu
Keywords: khazars

In article <1993Jan26.205449.203497@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

> I wasn't actually referring to Koestler's book. What I had in mind was the
> habitual statement made by the neo-Nazi group the AWB that the modern Jews
> are of Mongolian descent.

> (As the Manchurian said to the Jew: "Funny, you don't look Mongolian.") 

I have a photo of my grandmother's grandmother (my mother's matriarchal line)
and there is absolutely no question that she has strong mongolian ancestory,
as well as being Jewish.  I suspect that this is more likely from a rape
during the Mongolian invasion than anything having to do with Khazars.

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Cleaning up SCJ
Followup-To: /dev/null
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:36:58 GMT

In <NJo2XB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
(Todd J. Dicker) writes:

>While irrelevent postings to s.c.j. may be annoying and take up the 
>ever-precious bandwidth, I think we can live with them while occasionally 
>reminding people to take the more irrelevent conversations elsewhere 
>NICELY.

I've done that to two posters on scj (who shall remain nameless) and
received in response a heap of abuse.

>His attitude is clearly exhibited in the fact that when nobody will
>talk to him, he assumes the problem is with everybody else.

I don't know what Wiener has said, but in my initial e-mailings to
the two posters, I was extremely polite.  I became impolite only in
response to abusive letters mailed to me and my sysadmin.

>As with before, Wiener, all abusive e-mail directed at me will be 
>forwarded to your sysadmin without comment.

A waste of time - Wiener is the sysadmin at his site.  It helps
to find these things out before sending off e-mail. :-)

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:30:50 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: boa.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <FAIGIN.93Jan21060838@solarium.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>You are correct in that the process does work in both directions; I won't deny
>that. However, we simply must encourage movement in the correct direction,
>towards more serious practice of a movement's tenents. On the other hand, we
>can't expect everything to happen at once.


Yes, but the question is: What is the correct direction? And I think it
is a very important question. 
The definition of that direction is a very important thing too. In other
words, to what extend can one identify the same direction being the
same?

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: ANTISEMITE - Is there a better word?
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:44:19 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

Do people think that the word "antisemite" properly conveys its intended use to
mean a person against Jews and Judaism? Technically, semites are members of a
group which share the semitic languages and include Jews, Arabs, Assyrians etc,
all of whom are descendants of Shem. How about Judeophobe?

David Maddison
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Apartheid, Israel and this bigoted world...
Keywords: racism
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:50:22 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan21.145616.203486@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>As for Apartheid, I leave you with this thought:
>How come the people who whine about Apartheid in SA often turn out to be the
>same people who think that Apartheid in Israel is just dandy and that Jews
>should be forcefully removed from the West Bank and Gaza strip which should be
>exclusively Arab land. How come the people who bark at SA are usually the same
>people who want to stop Jews from living in East Jerusalem. Can you imagine the
>outcry if SA passed a law that said that Blacks can't live in East Cape Town. :)

Because the majority of the world hates Jews.  A Jew is a white male
(by politically correct definition, even if it's wrong), therefore
he's a part of the evil majority and can never get equal treatment
with other world minorities.  It's demonstrated time and time again -
your example is perfect.


-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Bitachon (Trust)
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, Tulane Univ.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:57:06 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-2615]: bourbon

In article <199301261258.AA17284@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>In: <6280@ceylon.gte.com>
>sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) discusses the subject at length
>
>>What is Bitachon (Trust?) in G-d?
>>
>>The common perception of this concept is that we trust in G-d that
>>whatever happens to us will be good. That is, we believe G-d is good,
>>and that whatever endeavor we undertake and any situation we find
>>ourselves in, then because G-d is good, things will be good.
>>
>>Of course, there are two possible outcomes. Either the even will turn
>>out good, or it won't. So what happened? The usuall explanation is that
>>it depends on whether we are worthy or not. That is, if we merit it,
>>then it will be for the good, if not, then it won't be for the good.
>>
>>Now, even those who explain Bitachon this way, will qualify things
>>slightly.  That is, if a bad occurance happens, then true, it is a bad
>>occurance to us.
>
>Sure,  never question  the underlying  assumption, do  never allow  an
>"experiment" to  decide, because whatever its  outcome, the assumption
>is correct.  Why? It just is.
>
Not exactly. One can - and should - question underlying assumptions.
But questioning does not necessarily mean concluding they're wrong.

>
>I rather  stop here.  The Rebbe  by any possible twist  has to support
>the believe in the  "good" God.  As I have stated  before on scj, with
>the Holocaust and its one  million (lacking of merit?) Jewish children
>and  babes, and  the  many millions  of others  murdered,  no talk  of
>"revealed bad" but "concealed good", can *conceal* the fact that there
>was no God there  when he was needed, all the rest  is just talk, talk
>and talk.
>
This actually begs the question, Michael. What difference does it make
if it's one million or one? The suffering of the righteous or innocent
is an old problem (Job, the Talmud, Abraham, Moshe, etc.). Not
everything experienced is understandable - or even palatable.
Determining "goodness" or lack thereof is not so simple.

>I know  that there  quite a  few who survived  and kept  on believing.
>This is  a fact  which just  shows that  there is  no limit  of people
>clutching at straws trying to give a "meaning" to their shattered life
>from a source which continuous to prove it's non existence or at least
>not caring.
>
This is rather callous; I didn't expect it of you. Since when is
disagreement with you clutching at straws? I disagree with your
position, but see its logic. Can't you do the same?



David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
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