From: mickel@OES.ORST.EDU (Paul M. Mickel)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college,soc.college
Subject: Re: still more practical jokes
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:04:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1992Apr11.230406.17295
Organization: Oregon Extension Service, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Or.

In article <1992Apr8.212456.4429@math.ufl.edu> PRODUCER%oak.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>>
[some deleted about community service work]

>>>hate or harass women. All we are is a group of friends running a club. You
>>>may not like that, I don't care. You may say we are elitist; we are. On the 
>>>other hand, so are a *lot* of other clubs on campus. We have the right to
>>>be elitist, It's guaranteed in the Canadian Charter of Rights and in the 
>>>American constitution. You may say we are sexist; we are. On the other hand,
>>>so are sororities, and many women's groups. Once again we have the right to 
>>>exclude whoever we want. If you don't like it, too bad. It's that old
>>>Freedom of Association thing again. The only difference is that we know things

Technically, in the USA, you can exclude anyone you want, so long as it's not 
the basis of age, race, religion, SEX, sexual orientation,....(the list 
goes on). The discrimination based on sex would be hard to defend in US
law.

Humm.....I find the association about this being guaranteed by the US 
Constitution somewhat inaccurate, since several court cases in the US have 
resulted in a reversal of the "men" only or "women" only policy  in certain 
clubs (like restaurants, and civic organizations). If the fraternity or sorority
systems were ever challenged in US Court, these organizations would have an
*extremely* hard time defending themselves....That they *HAVEN'T* been 
challenged yet in US courts is even more amazing to me.

>>>> -- 
>>>> Ted Frank          + "There are different Klans, just like there are different

[stuff about law school student here, but deleted for bervity (as much as I
can) ].

>>Just for the record at Brandeis the Student Union Constitution forbids
>>chartered clubs from restricting membership and charging dues of its
>>members. 
>>

[stuff about buying friends, blood donations deleted]

>Any real Fraternity has completely eliminated all 'hazing'. you don't have
>to denegrate a man just to make him one of your brothers. Just once I'd like
>to get the real story as to why all those ROTC cadets run around campus at
>3:00 in the morning in full battle gear with their rifles over their heads.

In Oregon (USA), it is now *ILLEGAL* and punishable by time in the county jail.
I doubt it would usually come to that, but it's possible nonetheless. As for
ROTC people, my understanding is that they are considered part of the military,
and as such their legal status is very different from a regular citizen 
(US Bill of Rights may or may not apply, depending upon military code). And the
reason probably *really is* that they are training (several of my friends are
ROTC or in the military).

Comments about fraternities and sororities:

I guess my main complaint about them is that I don't like putting up w/ the
politics of the system (I deal w/ enough of that where I work)..................
.....Personal preference, yes.
 
-pmm

-- 
Paul M. Mickel				Internet:mickel@oes.orst.edu
Oregon State University                 UUCP: ...hplabs!orstext!mickel
Corvallis, OR 97331   USA               #include <stddisclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college