HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tony.Duell@launchpad.unc.edu (Tony Duell)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Help needed identifying old Intel chips (4004?)
Keywords: Intel 4004 4002 4001
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:44:51 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


Yes, I think you have a 4004! (I have never seen one, although I still use
equipment (A fluke Data logger and Intel Prom Programmer) using the 4040).
The devices are : 
4004  - CPU
4001 - ROM (I think - this would explain why there are several versions of
it. I think it was mask-programmed :-( )
4002 - RAM (I think 80 locations of 4 bits ???? Also, I seem to remeber
something about a 4 bit port on that chip)
There are also chips to link standard EPROMS/RAMs to the 4004 family. The
number 4289 seems to ring bells, but I could be wrong. I don't have data
sheets, but could probably at least find the pinouts if you need them
-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
ard@siva.bris.ac.uk

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Operating Systems; retrocomputing
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:00:07 GMT

In article <1ikanvINN3ga@gap.caltech.edu>, kby@cco.caltech.edu (Kimo B. Yap)
writes:

|>Well, there's always OS/360 which is still alive todayas MVS or
|>whatever...;-)
|>								-kby
|>

Half true.

Delivery of OS/360 has not yet occured. The only delivery made so far is the
test setup JCL. The real OS has not yet made it out the door.

VM was only released after the users pointed out that IBM needed it to maintain
MVS.

The linker is still expected "anytime", the current one is a kludge that only
does 8 character labels.

We have 15 full time staff maintaining a machine less powerful than my
workstation (on realistic benchmarks).

I think IBM are going to go bust. The AXP-10000 creams the IBM-9000 and DEC
offer the best IBM escape route arround. Best of all it costs about the same
amount as two months maintenence on the 9000.

Heaven is a room full of IBM-9000 and a bloody large axe.

Hell is where the IBM marketing staff are headed.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: stirling@ozrout.uucp (Stirling Westrup)
Subject: Retrocomputing Backwards
Organization: Andre P. Ozrout
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:41:06 GMT
Summary: How to interface new stuff in 1950?

Ever since I saw Harlen Ellison's famous episode of the original Star Trek
series whos name I am unsure of (City at the Edge of Forever?) I've
wondered how feasible building a mnemonic memory circuit "Out of stone
knives and bearskins" would be.  'course, we don't know anything about trek
technology, so lets pose the same question with modern technology.

If a competant engineer was transported back to 1950 with a 486 chip (or a
68040), could he build a working computer with it?  Would he be able to
devise compatible memory, a power supply, and other stuff that it would need?
How much harder would the job be in 1940?  How much easier in 1960?

-- 
||    BUNGEE SIDEWAYS!                              o   )))
||                                                 /-- ///
|P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\_  \\\      __ -_
||    stirling@ozrout.uucp                                 ((( (_)T(_)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math
From: khchung@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr KH Chung)
Subject: Re: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI)
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Summary: fastest algorithm
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:31:13 GMT

In article <C0G8n5.KvC@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>, hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) writes:
> In article <AfG4iHU00k00Fqbd5o@transarc.com> Blake_Lewis@transarc.com writes:
> >
> >schoenfr@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Erik Schoenfelder) writes:
> >
> >> The formula i found (and use) is
> >> 
> >>         pi = 16 * atan (1/5) - 4 * atan (1/239)
> >
> >A faster one is
> >
> >	pi = 24 * atan(1/8) + 8 * atan(1/57) + 4 * atan(1/239)
> 
> How about Euler's improvement,
> 
>    pi = 4 * (5 * atan(1/7) + atan(3/79)) ?
> 
> this one is especially suited to calculations using base-10
> notation.  This fact is clear if we use Euler's formula,
> 
>              x           2        2 x 4  2    2 x 4 x 6  3
>   atan(x) = --- ( 1  +  --- y  +  ----- y  +  --------- y  + ...)
>              y           3        3 x 5       3 x 5 x 7
> 
> where y = x^2/(1+x^2).
> 
> You get a series where y = 1/50, and another where
> y = 7 x 8 / 50000, both of which make for very fast
> divisions in base-10.
> 
>  Reference: "A History of Pi", by Petr Beckmann.
> 
> 
> 
> Alejo Hausner (hausner@qucis.queensu.ca)

Apparently there is a really fast one which adds 14 digits to a given expansion
of $\pi$.  The name to look up for this is Chudnovsky (sp?).  Probably
Math. Reviews would be the place to look.  (Apparently also, the Chudnovskys
are trying to decide if $\pi$ is normal, hence the need for the huge expansion).
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch,comp.sys.intel
From: Jeff-Randall@uiuc.edu (Jeff Randall)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep not running on Cyrix 486DLC (was Re: Apple IIGS...)
X-Aka: Upholder
Reply-To: Jeff-Randall@uiuc.edu (Jeff Randall)
Organization: The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:52:40 GMT

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>I just purchased a 486 motherboard with a single socket which accomodates an
>SX (486 or 487), DX, or DX2 CPU.  There are three jumper settings: one for
>486SX, one for 487SX, and one for DX or DX2.  So it would appear that a 487SX
>can function perfectly well on its own.

Why would anyone want to buy a 487sx in this scenerio?  By all reports, all
it does is disable the 486sx and then act idenitcally to a 486dx... all at
a higher price than just buying a 486dx.

If you needed to add a coprocessor to a 486sx system with this motherboard
setup, why not just buy a 486dx?   It seems that there would be fewer hastles 
and would definaltely be cheaper than buying a 487sx...

-- 
Jeff-Randall@uiuc.edu (ASCII mail)           THIS IS _NOT_ CCSO'S OPINION!!!
jar42733@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu (NeXT mail)      If It were, It would've had a
wi.6580@n7kbt.rain.com (anon)                  more important name on it. =)
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18832 comp.arch:12220 comp.sys.intel:2992
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Date: 10 Jan 1993 04:10:44 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan6.233614.19189@wuecl.wustl.edu> cts1@cec2.wustl.edu (Christopher T. Schuster) writes:
>I have been wondering the usenet forever (or so it seems) and I have never 
>been able to figure out what 'kibo' means.... kibology... etc. as in 
>alt.imploding.kibo, alt.politics.kibo.

Well, why don't you ask Kibo?  You're allowed to ask him.

>Also, what is ISDN?  I haven't quite gotten that one yet, either!

According to Henry Spencer, it's "Incredibly Slow and Dumb Network".

5150
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bayko@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (John  Bayko)
Subject: Re: 4004 instruction set? (was Re: Help needed identifying old Intel chips (4004?))
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 21:50:23 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada
Keywords: Intel 4004 4002 4001

In article
    <1993Jan5.100443.3312@pollux.lu.se>
    magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
writes:
>In article
>    <1993Jan05.031629.373187@sue.cc.uregina.ca>
>    bayko@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (John  Bayko)
>writes:
>>Here is an official product announcement for the 4004, for anyone
>>who is interested...
>
>[...]
>
>>    The  heart  of  any  MSC-4  system  is  a  Type 4004 CPU,
>>which  incudes  a  set  of  45  instructions. 
>
>Speaking of this, could anyone please post the 4004's instruction set
>and programming model? I think that would interesting to compare to
>today's architectures...

    Well, here's the general description. Details and instruction set
will have to come from someone else...

John Bayko.

----------

Great Microprocessors of the Past and Present (V 4.0.0)

Part I: The Intel 4004, the first (1972)

    The first single chip CPU was the Intel 4004, a 4-bit processor
meant for a calculator. It processed data in 4 bits, but its
instructions were 8 bits long. Program and Data memory were separate,
1K data memory and 4K program memory accessed by a 12-bit PC (in the
form of a 4 level stack, used for CALL and RET instructions). There were
also sixteen 4-bit (or eight 8-bit) general purpose registers.
    The 4004 had 45 instructions. The 4040 was an enhanced version of
the 4004, adding 14 instructions, larger (8 level) stack, 8K program
space, and interrupt abilities (including shadows of the first 8
registers).

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:47:53 GMT

Daryl_Spitzer@mindlink.bc.ca (Daryl Spitzer) writes:

>[...]Making a computer easy enough
>to be used by the average layman isn't wimpy, it should be the goal of all of
>us.

I disagree 100%.  Making a computer easy enough to be used by the average
layman is one niche market.  There is another niche market for people who
know exactly what they want to do, and just want a fast way of doing it.
For those people, a GUI is an annoyance, because it gets in the way of what
they are trying to do - which may be expressible in a couple of letters on a
good Unix shell, but totally inaccessible on a GUI because the designer of
the GUI never anticipated the need for it.

-- 
Paul Tomblin (I don't make or state policy for this company)
"Does that include the toaster disk drive and printer" - Dilbert
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:19:39 GMT
Reply-To: rmkhome!rmk@merk.com (Rick Kelly)

In article <1993Jan7.192006.1316@afs.com> tjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.081753.6136@news.columbia.edu>  
>lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>> Quite true, but no one should have to resort to crap like that to overcome
>> the possible treachery of a giant company that wants to lockout its potential
>> competition by putting up obstacles that are of no particular benefit to any
>> user.  (Gee, this is starting to sound like Microsoft MS-DOS versus DR-DOS.)
>
>Yep, that hulking, monolithic NeXT wants to keep people from buying its 
software. Uh huh. Gee, they have all of what, 600 people.
>
>Has anyone thought that maybe it's not in NeXT's financial interest to say it
won't run on Cyrix chips? So maybe there's a real reason for saying it?
>
That's what I figure.

>Of course, Intel did foot the bill (or a substantial part of it) for the port.
>
>I think the problem is in some instruction that's missing. I don't know the
specifics. Someone else posted something about "bswap" being in the 486 but 
not the 386. If I'm not mistaken, the Cyrix chip is a  386 that's been 
reengineered to provide near-486 performance. If that's the case, then it may 
not support bswap.
>

The Cyrix 486DLC supports the full 486 instruction set, including bswap.

The problem is most likely a timing problem.

>Again, I don't have docs in front of me.
>
>On the other hand, in a few months, everyone will want to run NeXTSTEP on 
their Pentium machines, and the Cyrix thing will become less of an issue, 
since they don't sell a Pentium clone.

To NeXT, Cyrix isn't an issue.

-- 

Rick Kelly    rmkhome!rmk@merk.com    merk!rmkhome!rmk    rmk@frog.UUCP
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18697 alt.folklore.urban:32785 alt.religion.kibology:5664
From: etlcrcy@bugs.ericsson.se (Chris Cleverly)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:14:26 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: Ericsson Cellular Division

In article <1993Jan7.120921.21496@nntp.nta.no> styri@nta.no writes:
>cts1@cec2.wustl.edu (Christopher T. Schuster) writes:
>> Also, what is ISDN?  I haven't quite gotten that one yet, either!
>
>It used to be ~I Still Don't kNow", but I not certain any longer.
>The acronym is printed on some of our phones. Maybe it's significant.
>

Ho, ho, ho. Mr. Telecom   :) :) :)


--
---------------------------------------     \\\\ 
| Chris Cleverley,                    |      . . 
| eltcrcy@deep-thought.ericsson.se    |       S    
---------------------------------------       ~    "...I have a cunning plan..."
From: Tony.Duell@launchpad.unc.edu (Tony Duell)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 110 BAUD TELETYPE WANTED (WITH OR WITHOUT TAKE PUNCH)
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:56:09 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


Can you have an KSR33 with tape ????
According to the Teletype service manuals (I have all 3 volumes - vol 1 =
lubrication/dismantling, vol 2 = adjustments, vol 3 = parts list/ exploded
diagrams), a KSR machine is Keyboard send/receive and has no paper tape.
The ASR33 has paper tape, ASR standing for Automatic send/receive. There
is also an RO version (Recevie only) which has no keyboard or paper tape,
and is just a printer.
  Trivia for you... The ASR33 has a related machine, the ASR32, which is
5-level baudot coded, not ASCII. There were also separate keyboard
machines made, as the only mechanical link from the keyboard to the rest
of the machine was the trip lever. This was replaced by
solenoids/microswitches, and all signals sent down a cable. There were
also machines with punch-card autodialers, sprocket feeds, different
typefaces, etc....

My own collection consists solely of 2 ASR33's, 1 teletype on a stand, and
a data dynamics one, badged 'link systems'. I also have other
teleprinters, a Creed 7E, Creed 444, and a Friden Flexowriter. The friden
is currently in bits, and will be restored sometime :-)
-tony 'PDP11 Hacker' Duell
ard@siva.bris.ac.uk

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18626 comp.arch:12093 comp.sys.intel:2889
From: aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch,comp.sys.intel
Subject: NeXTstep not running on Cyrix 486DLC (was Re: Apple IIGS...)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 01:53:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (P. J. Remner)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) says:
>
>Just remember that this is the first commercial OS package that is meant
>to only run on a 486.  It won't run on a 386, as a 386 doesn't have bswap.
>

No wonder.  The 486DLC is just a 386 with a 1k cache and a coprocessor.

I don't know how many people were suckered into buying the 486DLC, thinking
that they were getting 486 performance at ultra-low cost.
-- 
aj923@cleveland.freenet.edu (So now you listen, 'cause I'm omniscient)
			      _______________________							     /  ___________________(_)				
			    /  /\__________________							   /  /_/________________(_)				
			  /______________________							  \____________________(_)				
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18579 sci.math:17668
From: urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math
Subject: Re: Normal numbers (was Re: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI))
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:31:38 +0100
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1

In alt.folklore.computers, article <1993Jan4.134805.25742@infodev.cam.ac.uk>,
  sl25@cus.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton) writes:
> In article <1993Jan4.134418.25602@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:
> |> In article <1993Jan4.131015.4890@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
> |> 
> |> >However, now that I've come to think of it, I'm not 100% sure that
> |> >even that condition is sufficient for pseudo-randomness. Does anybody
> |> >have a counterexample - a number where the decimal expansion
> |> >follows some simple rule, but all N-digit sequences have the same
> |> >probability of appearing?
> |> 
> |> Yes. 0.12345678910111213141516171819202122...100101102103104105106...
> |> (write down all the positive integers in order and stick 'em together).
> 
> I don't think this works.  Apart from the nees for a careful definition of
> probability (what limit are you taking), I think sequences containing zeroes are
> probably unfairly excluded, as each number begins with a non-zero.

The workaround for the latter is simple -- restart the sequence every time
you run out of room, i.e.
0.01234567890001020304050607080910111213...9899000001002...099100101...

However, it should be obvious that as one goes into regions of longer
integers, any artifacts introduced by concatenating numbers or by skipping
leading zeroes should get more insignificant. Since the limit of integer
length is infinite, the impact of artifacts should go to zero.

-- 
When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
                                -- Jonathan Swift
-- 
Matthias Urlichs  --  urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de   /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- Germany  --  +49-721-9612521     \o)/
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: VCS processor (was Re: Game machine processors)
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:23:34 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Paul Tomblin, pt@compass.gvc.com, writes:
>john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes:
>>
>>Any other evil hardware hacks in production machines? Things that really
>>should never have been done?
>
>I heard a rumour that the evil screen memory addressing scheme on Apple ][
>in Hires mode was due to Steve Wosniak trying to save a couple of chips per
>machine - save a couple of cents per machine, and cause programmers
>sleepless nights trying to write routines to put dots where you want them.

True.  Well known.  Admitted by Apple, repeatedly.

>I also heard that the disk drives on the Apple ][ used way too
>much software in order to save hardware

Also true.  Very, very strange interface to the software drivers, too (of
course, I speak from an Atari bigot's point of view--we had a real operating
system with device-independent I/O calls).

>                    (Sort of reminiscent of the time when the
>most powerful computer Apple made was the Laserwriter)

I recall reading an article on the Laserwriter that referred to printing a
document as "uploading a program."  After all, Postscript is Turing-complete,
and it's running on a more powerful machine, so...you're uploading a program
to a server! Your Mac is a FEP for your printer!

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: faught@berserk.ssc.gov (Ed Faught)
Subject: Re: 110 BAUD TELETYPE WANTED (WITH OR WITHOUT TAKE PUNCH)
Reply-To: faught@berserk.ssc.gov
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:23:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.102055.23469@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>  writes:
>In <2B4C83F4.7974@ics.uci.edu> gshouse@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (George H. Iii  
Shouse) writes:
>
>>I still have an old KSR-33 w/tape AND modem (rotary dial).

I gave away my model 14 reperforator ( a tape punch driven by the 20 ma loop ),  
model 15 teletype ( designed to come apart in backpack-sized pieces for the  
army ), model 19 teletype ( a 15 with tape reader and keyboard-operated tape  
punch ), model 28 with 60wpm/100wpm gearshift ( Western Union workhorse ), and  
model 37 ( not many of these made, but I consider it Teletype Corporation's  
highest achievement ) about three years ago. They were all in working order and  
belonged in a museum. I couldn't justify the cost of freighting them to Texas.
--
Ed Faught  WA9WDM  faught@berserk.ssc.gov
 Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: VCS PROCESSOR (WAS RE
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:29:25 GMT

In article <3824735883.23@inode.com> andor@inode.com writes:

> -=> Quoting Pt@geovision.gvc.com to News <=-
>
> Pt> just have been a Commodore-bigot's point of view.  (My disk drive was
> Pt> smarter than my computer - it had 3 6502s in it!)  (Sort of reminiscent
> Pt> of the time when the most powerful computer Apple made was the
> Pt> Laserwriter)
>
>I almost have that situation now. I have a 486/33 and an HPLJ 4. The HPLJ 4
>uses a 20Mhz Intel 860, which is at least similar in speed to the 486/33.
The
>printer also has 6MB of memory, which is close to the 8MB in my PC.

     My old IMSAI has a 2-MHz 8080, while the Heath 19 terminal
attached to it has a 4-MHz Z-80.  But the printer, a model 35RO
Teletype, has no digital electronics at all... :-)

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math
From: sl25@cus.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton)
Subject: Re: Normal numbers (was Re: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI))
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:48:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.134418.25602@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan4.131015.4890@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
|> 
|> >However, now that I've come to think of it, I'm not 100% sure that
|> >even that condition is sufficient for pseudo-randomness. Does anybody
|> >have a counterexample - a number where the decimal expansion
|> >follows some simple rule, but all N-digit sequences have the same
|> >probability of appearing?
|> 
|> Yes. 0.12345678910111213141516171819202122...100101102103104105106...
|> (write down all the positive integers in order and stick 'em together).

I don't think this works.  Apart from the nees for a careful definition of
probability (what limit are you taking), I think sequences containing zeroes are
probably unfairly excluded, as each number begins with a non-zero.