From: smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Explanation of heresies
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:32:57 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

sml@cs.nott.ac.uk (Steve Lang) writes:

>How is it possible to claim that someone is righteous, in the light of the
>holy spirit, while they are still sinners?  Regarding recent postings, the
>main cause of dislike of chrisitianity is the behaviour of it followers.
>Claims that christians are superiour and righteous does nothing but
>alienate non-believers.  I often have to remind myself that the
>self-righteous attitude of christians is a sad reflection on humanity
>rather than christianity, but it is all to easy to fell to appreciate this.

A common slogan on a bumper sticker comes to mind --

'Christians aren't perfect -- just forgiven'

I agree that people aren't good at being good. I also view Christians as
righteous. I can get away with this contradiction by pointing out that
Christians are righteous with an *assumed* righteousness - God views us
and chooses to see Jesus instead. From God's point of view, this works,
and we are accredited with righteousness. I can only attribute this
to God's love.

The world doesn't see it God's way, and they get to behold Christians
in all our ugly, fallen splendor. This is why it is crucially important
to Christians to behave properly - we don't just offend God's forgiveness
by acting improperly, we drag the name of Jesus in the mud in the eyes
of non-Christians as well. God may forgive us for the sin, but the
non-believers won't... they'll remember every trangression and hold them
up, sometimes with a glee I find annoying, as proof that God does not exist
or that Christians can't possibly know Him.

It doesn't help, of course, when Christians with high visibility do things
they clearly are not supposed to, such as making too much money in selling
the gospel to folk who should be able to get it for free. Of course the
world hates us. We are preaching a very unpopular message and not living
up to it ourselves

>> I contend that when someone says that he hates himself, what
>> he is really saying is that he hates the way he was made.
>> Dissatisfaction with yourself is really a form of *pride*
>> (also know as loving yourself).  One who "hates" himself
>> does so because he is not as good as he *should* have been.
>> He is angry because he can not fulfill the role that *he*
>> wants to fulfill, and the real object of his anger is *God*.

>I am getting into dangerous waters here.  I can only speak personally.  I
>went through a rather long period (about 7 years) of `self-hatred', not
>continuously.  Certainly one of the causes was that I believed that God
>hated me as he would not revile Himself even when I challenged Him to.  So

I think you mean 'reveal'. To revile is something rather different.

>in return I was angry with God.  As He would not revile Himself, and as I
>have been told many times that God does not mind being challenged to do so,
>and that He will always revile Himself in such situations, I could only 
>conclude that He did not exist.  Since then I have not felt any anger
>towards God, nor hatred towards myself.

Let me take an unpopular stance on this. It is possible, and I have no idea
if this is actually true, that you tried to get God to reveal himself to
you on your own terms. I have seen this happen to other folk: they were
so busy saying "God, show yourself to me" that they neglected to say "God,
I give myself to you." In essence, they were testing God. My reading of
scripture seems to indicate that that is sometimes rejected. 

My advice is, try again. Keep beating on the door, so to speak. I'll
testify that God is out there.
--
These are only my opinions.  You should hear my convictions.
smayo@wang.com