HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:11:29 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject: Re: Re:60 Minutes

Even so... if the parents are not good decision-makers, and cannot take the
trouble of looking at all pros and cons for *all* options, then I would
rather *they* take the sole and *whole* responsibility for the consequences
of their ultimate decision, be it a good one or a wrong one.  If anyone
suggests a 'benevolent' professional to step in and 'guide' these parents
(esp. without being asked) from their 'wrong' decision to what the
professional considers to be a 'good' decision for the parents, it implies
paternalism and therefore, a shared responsibility for the consequences.
If the consequences happen to be the desired solution, then the professional
can claim success, but if the results are not what the parents expected
to happen, then the professional (who stepped in and intervened) is going
to explain a lot!

There is not really a RUSH to decide, on a cochlear implant, it wouldn't
hurt for the parents to wait for a few weeks, even several months, on
the subject of cochlear implants.  The whole decision making process takes
more than two years anyway, and involves a lot of professionals, paraprof-
essionals, and therapy people (speech, rehabilitation, RNs, etc.)...

Anyway I hope that I make myself clear, and there is no intent of any
personal attack on anyone.  I support everyone's right to disagree and
respect their opinions! ;)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: deaf-L@siucvmb.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"deaf-L@siucvmb"
X-VMS-Cc: RBWEINSTOCK
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:25:09 -0500
From:         "Robert B. Weinstock" <RBWEINSTOCK@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Gallaudet e-mail

We have three VAX/VMS nodes (GALLUA, GALLUK, and GALLUT), and one
UNIX node (GALLUX).  The VAX/VMS address scheme is username@gallua.bitnet.
I think it's somewhat different for the UNIX machine:  the first eight
letters of the VAX username @gallux.gallaudet.edu, if memory serves ,e
(oops) me right.  I have never seen a message ported from GALLUA to
GALLUX, so I'm not sure it is accurate to say that messages sent to
GALLUA will always find their owner, whether he/she be on A, K, T, or X.

Most of our users are on the VAX/VMS system, which is decidedly more
user-friendly.  In fact, students, faculty, and staff automatically
get VAX/VMS accounts; however, one has to apply for and be approved
to use a UNIX account.  That would explain why the person who tried
to FINGER Smiths on GALLUX found only one.

Hope this helps!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:26:01 EDT
From:         elaine <EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: I guess it depends on one's parents!
              23 Nov 1992 14:31:45 EST from <askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>

Adam,

I was surprised to read that you were born hearing.  Was your sister, Dawn,
also born hearing?  I thought both of you were born deaf.  Ummm...

Elaine
From: acs_belscamp@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Technicolor Captions
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:17:38 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <9211110340.AA25061@silver.lcs.mit.edu>, "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU> writes:
> One of the dorms at the Learning Center has the Zenith TV with the
> built-in decoder.  (Zenith has been making these since *before*
> the mandatory-decoder-chip law was passed).  Sometimes, when the
> TV signal is fuzzy, the TV flashes garbled captions in a variety
> of colors--blue, purple, etc.  But "standard" captions are always
> white-on-black or black-on-yellow.
> 
> What's going on?  Have the US captioning standards been amended
> to allow for multi-colored or multi-font captions?
  Well more likely it's just the tv set.  Have you ever noticed when you're 
  watching a black and white tv show and the tv signal isn't very good that
  you get wierd colors showing up?  My tv set does this anyhow.  
> --
> seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
> mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience

Jill
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: The Bolis Group, San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:48:51 PST
Reply-To:     Alan Millar <amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.Org>
From:         Alan Millar <amillar@BOLIS.SF-BAY.ORG>
Subject:      Death wish

"Matthew Norman" <CAMN@CATCC.BITNET> writes:

> Hey dim wit Lew,

[diatribe deleted]
>   Come on! Expand your limited mind.

> -Matt Norman

Thank you, Matt, for your shining example of open-mindedness.

- Alan

----                                                                    ,,,,
Alan Millar       amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org                           __oo  \
                                                                       =___/
But Moses said "Oh, Lord, please send someone else to do it." -Exo. 4:13
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: 600 minutes??????
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:12:04 GMT


In article <01GR9FKM3BCI90NZC6@gallua.bitnet> 11ASONES@GALLUA.BITNET writes:
>I have a question for all of you out in Deaf-L... How does everyone
>feel about implanting a three year old or four year old child whose
>brain and ears are still growing? I wonder what the long term, effects
>on the brain, cochlea etc. are??

I guess that's a pretty good question.

>The other thing that concerns me is this implant looks like the old
>hearing aids I wore when I was very young. The box on my tummy that was
>forever in my way. I wonder how the children of the implants run
>around playing sports without something pelting at their tummies? Will

Good grief, didn't you ever take your hearing aid off in gym? :-)

I'm not an expert on cochlear implants, but from what I've read, the implant
is actually two parts, one inside the skull and the other part that looks
like an old-fasioned hearing aid. However, at the end of the cord where
there would be an ear mold, there is a magnet (sorta like those refrigerator
magnets) that you attach to the side of your head where one end (also magnetic)
of the inside part is located. (I know, that sounds kind of gross. I've heard
stories about college students with cochlear implants showing off by sticking
metal things like silverware to the sides of their heads.)

All a kid with a cochlear implant has to do is just take off the hearing-aid
thingy. No big deal to it.

>wants to make love with someone, will this box forever be in his or
>her way?

Good grief...do any deaf people actually wear hearing aids to bed? I sure
don't...but then again, I hadn't worn hearing aids since junior high
school, so I never got to experience this sort of thing. :-)


--
Angeli "Ms. Pepper" Wahlstedt (pepper@shell.portal.com)

"If nobody else was violent, I could conquer the whole stupid planet with
just a butter knife." - Dogbert
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:19:37 -0600
From:         /PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject: Re: Cochlear Implant Musings.

 <"NGJC-5524-8323/36"*/PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
 >


You may have a point there, Adam. I was the one who wrote the editorial
comparing the cochelar implants to Holocaud st.

However, I vf iew the cochlear implant controversy a far more devious and
dangerous threat to a cultural group's survival in the near future.

Any one will IMMEDIATEDLY dismiss the idea of killing a person and will
strive to d wgha       to do whatever they can to stop that.

But nobody's unfi  ified on this implant controversy... no one agrees on how
this will affect a cultural group. It's scary to ig magine a world wo ithout
Deaf people oi  in it.

N on  One might say that Nai zi of Germany would have opted to forcibly
 cone vert all
Jewish people into Ayrans, utilizing genetic engineering and advanced
"brainwashing" methods. They might have preffer   erred that than killing them
all but I think I'm being too charitable to  wards Nazis.

This applies to deaf children who has NO say in receiving the implants, not
p deaf adults who CHOOSE to have the implant. Thats like a Jewish person opting
to be a catholic or a protestant, abandoning his/her own heritage.

I still stand by my editorial that the implants are as equally as bad
as the Holocaust. I have no intentions of offending trhe   he Jewish community
ot   r belitting the Holocause t with this analogy, however one would feel
that the cochealr im       lear implant controversy is being i belittled because
one claims that its not a fair analogy.

As for someone w else who said, "Where do the Oral Deaf           oral D deaf
 fit into this analogy?"
I'll get to that later.

Marvin Miller
CIS - 71302,473
(313) 932-35832    2 TTY
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: Deaf-L@siucvmb.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"Deaf-L@siucvmb.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 12:41:05 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Alexander Graham Bell...

Seth Gordon says:
"Observe: Alexander Graham Bell encouraged deaf people to intermarry
with hearing people.  The Nazis forbade Jews from marrying "Aryans",
and made racial difference acceptable grounds for divorce."

While I agree that the historical records show that Alexander Graham
Bell himself encouraged deaf persons not to marry each other, "for
fear of making a deaf race."  He did encourage deaf people to
intermarry with hearing people... and I feel it is a gross injustice
when I hear or see or read that "he was like a Hilter, he wanted to
do away with deaf people."  To quote Seth: Wrong, wrong, wrong!@

If one will remember that the Mendellian theory of genetics was not
formulated until the 20s or 30s, no one in Dr. Bell's day knew anything
about genetics, gene transmission, etc.  Based on what the facts seemed
to be like: he saw that there was a greater chance that two deaf persons
who married each other, would have a deaf child; he was also mistaken that
he thought that *if* two deaf persons married, *then* each child or
offspring would be deaf.  He did not know that deafness is not necessarily
a genetic trait; he did not know that deafness could be 'latent' in
generations until the genome is expressed (like the mother carring the
gene for deafness, and all daughters don't have deafness but sons might
be deaf if they inherited this particular gene from the mother)...

So, please don't perpetuate the myth that Dr. Bell was an 'eugenist' in
wolf's clothing.  He was a scientist, and adhered strictly to experimental
principles.  He also tried to breed double-nippled sheep because he
thought that would double the output of sheep's milk!

Does anyone know whether Dr. Bell actually realized that 90% of children
bown to deaf parents are hearing.  Likewise, 90% of deaf children born,
are born to hearing parents!

Chris Lehfeldt

(sorry, no sig here! yet!)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:24:16 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc

Adam -

>That is quite interesting. I believe the implant was designed for completely
>deaf persons. I was also under the impression that it worked best with
>those who never had any residual hearing. The reason is becuase what
>an implantee actually hears is not what a hearing person hears. I think if
>you asked for a description of a sound from a hearing person and an implantee
>you'd get slightly different descriptions. The difference makes it harder for
>somebody used to the actual sounds to get used to the implants sounds.


While I think you're probably right that sounds through an implant do sound
like "real" sounds, I think your impression about residual hearing is wrong
- at least that was the information I was given a couple of years ago.  My
mother, who is an avid supporter of CI's (there is a place in nearby Memphis
that does the surgery), was bombarding me with literature for a period of
time.  She even had one of the doctors call me to discuss it.  At that
time, he said that people who became deaf later in life and those who grew
up with a significant amount of residual hearing have had the most success
with the implants.  I dunno, I told him thanks but no thanks, but that was
the info I got then.

Keith

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 12:20:46 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: [CXLNVD%RITVAX.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu: Re: Re:60 Minutes]

Yes, of course if I think or suspect there has been any child abuse or negl
or neglect of the child, within my professional knowledge as a dentist, then
I am legally bound by the law (and I agree, and ethically) to report
my suspicions to the authorities.  Whether the definition of 'neglect'
means a failure of following up with fillings for the child's cavities,
and the child suffers -- because the parent has no money and I don't take
Medicaid -- and the parent doesn't follow through on my referral to
a public health facility that takes Medicaid patients, I look to
cases that will help me decide whether *I* think the parent is a
negligient parent, and I will make the appropriate reporting to the
authorities... but you have to understand that the first priority
of a parent is to nurture, feed, take care, comfort a child;
and since
*I* *am* *not* the *legal guardian or parent* of the child, I cannot
*decide* for the parent.  That would smack of paternalism, or at worst,
benevolent oppression.

Thanks for the posting, Seth.  Interesting.   Too bad life
is not cut and dried in your decisions!

Chris Lehfeldt, DDS
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:10:33 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc

Ref:  Adam's posting of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:59:37 EST

>That is quite interesting. I believe the implant was designed for completely
>deaf persons. I was also under the impression that it worked best with
>those who never had any residual hearing. The reason is becuase what
>an implantee actually hears is not what a hearing person hears. I think if
>you asked for a description of a sound from a hearing person and an implantee
>you'd get slightly different descriptions. The difference makes it harder for
>somebody used to the actual sounds to get used to the implants sounds.

Adam --

 You have the idea about the sound right, but it's not true that it's
any harder for deafened people to get used to the sounds generated
by an implant. The brain is so adaptable. In any case, the people
who do *really* well with implants are those who became deaf in
adulthood, and who had the implant within 2/3 years after they became
deaf.

 Deaf people with some residual hearing who wear hearing aids and
have some speech discrimination who subsequently lose  this hearing
often do very well with an implant because of their ability to make sense
of limited auditory information.

 The big factor, really, is how much the implantee is motivated to
make a success of the implant. The quality of the post-operative
rehabilitation plays an important part, too.

 There are different types of implant -- multi--channel ones such
as the Nucleus give a good possibility of speech discrimination, but
only if the selection procedure is rigorous and as advanced as
possible. Single channel implants are still used, though, as there are some
deaf people who would benefit from being able to hear environmental
sounds, such as people who were only able to hear environmental sounds
with hearing--aids, and who later lost even that hearing ability.


Bosco.


Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:05:34 -0600
From:         Roy Miller <GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      DEAF-L Silence

Hello Everybody --

I just returned from a week in Texas where I was attending the
Planning Committee meetings for the First Annual Forum on Employment
and the Deaf.  As always happens, some problems developed with
DEAF-L during my absence.  In particular, DEAF-L received 50 notes
in one day (for the first time in history) and that automatically
triggered a situation where the list was put on a HOLD status
(meaning no posts were distributed by the list).  As a result, the
list has been "quiet" for several days.  I have fixed things and
you should be receiving a lot of DEAF-L mail now.  Thanks for
your patience, and thanks to all those readers who wrote me
personally inquiring about the situation.

-- Roy Miller
   Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
   (ge0013@siucvmb.siu.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:36:33 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11ASONES@GALLUA1
From:         11ASONES@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Laura...

Thanks for the e-mail....
                   GallyIamdeaf,
                          Allison
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: deaf-l@siucvmb.bitnet
X-VMS-To: @DEAFL
X-VMS-Cc: 12SHARDY
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:42:59 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 12SHARDY@GALLUA1
From:         "STEVEN T. HARDY--GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY" <12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Harvard Education Review Article/BRIDGES

    A Hearing Teacher's Changing Role in Deaf Education

    by Patricia J. Saylor
    BRIDGES, Durham, North Carolina
    Article in Harvard Educational Review
    Vol. 62, No. 4 Winter 1992


    "In this article, Patricia Saylor tells of her experience as a hearing
    woman dedicated to learning and teaching about the Deaf community.
    Saylor is the founder and director of BRIDGES, a program aimed at
    building connections between Deaf culture and hearing culture.  In her
    essay, Saylor offers a moving and detailed description of the program's
    goals by articulating her own experiences along with those of members
    of the BRIDGES community.  As she explores a world that is largely
    ignored by the hearing population and describes some of the positive
    implications of connecting the hearing and deaf worlds, Saylor reveals
    the strengths and richness of the Deaf community." (p.519)


        A very well written and informative (ie non-preaching) article that
    was just published by Harvard.  I enjoyed reading it for it is a great
    introduction to many of the issues that hearing teachers (and other
    professionals) are now facing in deaf education.  Any Comments about
    it?


    Steve




********************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
Steven Thomas Hardy                     Was mich nicht umbringt,
12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET                     macht mich starker
Gallaudet University
800 Florida Ave, NE Box 2635            202/651-5540 v/t
Washington DC 20002                     202/651-5747 fax
********************************************************************************
From: fak9957@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Frank Kruppenbacher)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: re: 60 mins story
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:38:02 GMT
Reply-To: fak9957@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology


       The promise by the implant
       specialists and the surgeon was that Caitlin would only be able to hear
       "environmental sounds" at best.

   Maybe I'm just confused as to what's meant by "environmental sounds" if so,
   please clarify.

 Jill,

If you look at the "60 Minutes" segment carefully, it explains that Caitlin and
her family live in New York City.  The parents started that just the promise
that Caitlin would be able to hear "environmental sounds" was quite
attractive to them, because they live in New York City.  By environmental
sounds, I think the parents mean car horns, fire sirens, dogs barking, gun
shots, people screaming, alarms, bells, whistles, and so on.  Certainly people
have been able to live a meaningful life without ever having to hear these
sounds.  My wife is profoundly deaf since birth and grew up in Brooklyn without
the benefit of hearing and understanding these sounds.  Of course my wife's
parents (both sets) and my wife's sister are all deaf since birth.  I'm sure
they've all had close calls because they didn't hear the car horn honking,
warning them to get out of the way.  

So with hearing parents of a child who has just become deaf, and living in New
York City, you can see that they wanted at least some level of hearing for
their daughter.  Even if it was just discrimination of environmental sounds.
As it turned out the implant helped Caitlin way beyond the promise of hearing
environmental sounds.

As the video showed too, hearing aids would not have worked in Caitlin's case.

fk
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:46:00 EST
From:         PS308LEC@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Adler..

Hi Allison- My account name at Ithaca College is PS308LEC. I am not sure
what people exactly have to write in order to send me mail but if you just
type in       reply        at the prompt, it should work. Hope it does!
-Laura
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:14:46 EDT
From:         Elaine <EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: English as a Second Language
              23 Nov 1992 10:56:43 -0600 from
              <sdcollins%pstcc.dnet@NET.VANDERBILT.EDU>

Shannon-

Welcome to Deaf-l.

We, or at least I, can read you well.

Enjoy your experiences with this list.

elaine
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU