From: k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai)
Subject: Re: Homophobes in the Military..what nobody is talking about: (Re: Gays in the Military..what nobody is talking about:)
Organization: Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH, Hamburg
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 08:47:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.165332.17416@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.155111.3969@news.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE> k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai) writes:
>
>>>	I'm not familiar with the Rainbow Program.  Is it actually
>>>teaching sex, or just that there can be family units comprised of
>>>two people of the same gender?
>>>
>>I have to admit that my knowledge of the program is as incomplete as
>>yours. I find myself in the funny position (for a stereotypical 
>>"Fundie" anyway) of disapproving of the State teaching values to my
>>child. Outside of such moral "no-brainers" as The Golden Rule and
>>calls for ethics and honesty I see no need for public education to
>>start teaching little kids what constitutes a "normal" family. 
>
>    The need only exists because so many parents won't teach their kids
>what constitutes a normal family.
>
Here you're making a values judgement for me and my child. My
religious beliefs do not permit me to believe as you do (nor do I
personally wish to). Gay families are certainly not "normal" in any
statistical sense. If you are implying that "normal" means they are
as capable of providing love, support, and shelter for their children
as any other couple then I would say that you are probably right.
As a Christian I view the sexual behavior of the parents as the central
moral issue, not their parenting skills. 
>
>    The NY program is completely non-judgemental.  It simply states that
>such families exist.  Perhaps you have a hard time envisioning that such a
>thing can be done without affixing adjectives, but it can, and is.
>
I have to admit that i'm skeptical.

>>children that hating others based on their beliefs is wrong i'll
>>get behind that 100%. I am not a Paganphobe..:) 
>
>    Well then, NY could use more like you.  The main 'phobic objection to
>the program is that it doesn't say that same-sex parents are wrong,
>perverse, abnormal, immoral, etc.  And, of course, sexual identity is an
>orientation, not a belief system; this should make you feel even more
>strongly about supporting it.
>
As i've already mentioned I don't believe that homosexuality is a
question of orientation (at least not 100%). As for the schools
making a moral judgement I would opt for even-handedness; if they
don't get to promote it they don't get to condemn it either. If the
point is to get children to stop hating homosexuals (and possibly
growing up to be bashers) I would also support it. However, this
is something I am already teaching my son. Christians don't believe
in beating the snot out of their neighbors because of their sexual
practices (at least not the ones I know).
>
>    It does allow parents to remove their kids from discussions they find
>objectionable.  To date, only about 2% are doing that, even though they
>continue to wave their placards and biblebooks.  You have to wonder about
>their motives.
>
I have personally left a couple of churches which wanted me and my 
family to take part in activities like this. Some of these people
saw themselves as making some sort of noble "stand against unrighteous-
ness". I saw them as rather self-righteous and pompous. When certain
people questioned my faith because I refused to take their stands
against abortion and homosexuality then I knew it was time to find
some people who had actually read the New Testament and not just the
Law of Moses. There is certainly no biblical mandate for trying to
change morality through legislation. Jesus rather pointedly separated
himself from the politics of his era. When someone challenges my 
personal beliefs I will stand by what I feel to be right. Outside of
that my morality applys only to myself and my family...hopefully, to
the church I attend as well. Fundamentalist Christians are not as
monolithic a group as you might think. I know many who feel that
people like Pat Robertson are the worst thing to happen to the 
Church in this century.

>>I hope we actually find something out about this program. Like most 
>>people my knee tends to jerk in the absence of genuine information...
>>But where do ya go? I would consider Time or Newsweek about as
>>trustworthy and unbiased as Rush. 
>
>    You are extremely cynical if you really believe the last statement.  If
                       ^^^^^^^
How'd you guess?...:) 

On certain issues I feel that T 'n N can be very one-sided, but yeah, it's
an overstatement...

>you're really interested, call the NYC Board of Education and order a copy
>of the Rainbow Program.  You may be disappointed - only a few of its 450+
>pages are concerned with same-sex parents - but you'll have "genuine
>information".

Thanks for the information. I appreciate being able to investigate things
for myself without filters.

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