HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sandeep@pteng.amdahl.com ( Sandeep Mirchandani )
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Do you want to climb Mt. Shasta on Sept 16-20th?
Summary: UCD OA has vacancy in Mt. Shasta climb: Sept 16-20th
Keywords: Shasta class
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:57:38 GMT
Distribution: ba
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


Yo!

There's one vacancy in the following class (last minute dropout..)
Please email me at sandeep@pteng.amdahl.com if you're interested.



University of California Davis  Outdoor Adventures presents:

Shasta Summer Mountaineering Seminar
Are you thinking of making ascents in Mexico, the Cascades or
Alaska? Do you wish to lead your own mountaineering trips? Learn
expedition techniques during this intensive five-day seminar on
Mt. Shasta. The fundamentals of ice axe arrest, rope climbing,
crevasse rescue and glacier travel will be taught. Advanced snow
and ice techniques, including French and front point cramponing
techniques, will also be covered prior to an ascent of the north
side route on Mt. Shasta. Experienced guides and all climbing
equipment are provided by OA. A basic knowledge of belayed
climbing techniques and good physical condition are
prerequisites.
#1: Pre-trip meeting:  Thursday, June 11, 7 pm
      Mt. Shasta, June 20-24
#2: Pre-trip meeting: Thursday, Sept 10, 7 pm
      Mt. Shasta, Sept 16-20
S/$80 UA/$88 General Public/$96
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rbw3q@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Whitehurst)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:10:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.201047.24419@tera.com> richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) writes:
>In article <18ibk0INNdl1@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
>>I expressed my surprise to a backcountry ranger that cattle grazing
>>was allowed in a wilderness area.  She gave me the impression
>>that this was a somewhat unique situation.  I suspect the grazing rights
>>were grandfathered in when the Pecos Wilderness Area was established.
>>Anyone know for sure?
>
>I just spent the weekend in the Pasayten Wilderness area in eastern Washington.
>At the trailhead was a nice poster with a cow and sheep sitting by a campfire
...
>I think that "Cattle Free by 93" might be too much to ask, but at least the
>owners of these cattle should be required to pay the going rate for grazing.
>Any maybe, just maybe, the Forest Service might consider keeping some areas
>grazing free to allow people to walk and look up at the trees without worrying
>about what they just stepped in. 
>
>	richard

	Much as I love the Great Western Spaces, I gotta admit,
moo-less trails are one nice feature here in the east (not to dismiss
some other problems...).   

-- 

Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab
rbw3q@Virginia.EDU |   We like it hot...and fast.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 23:39:14 GMT

You are approaching the time the Park Service prevents overnight parking.

Ice ax: usually not.

Contact the Park via phone for details of hiking and closure.
Accept no substitute unless you want to get dissappointed when you arrive.
This is a hazardous time of year for weather.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert)
Subject: Re: NO ALCOHOL IN N.P. (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:38:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.221313.17143@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> gadient@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (JL Gadient) writes:

>The only hassles I have ever had camping came from people. People
>who had had too much to drink.
>

Amen to that!

>This thread should be: NO ALCOHOL IN NATIONAL PARKS
>(I just changed it.)


That's one of the best reasons for backpacking - to get away from nasty
drunks who don't want to carry their booze in.  Unfortunately, if you're
coming from a long distance you usually have to car camp the first night.

I usually try to get a campsite in the National Park and NOT, I REPEAT,
NOT, in the surrounding National Forest.  The N.F. has virtually no
regulation.  "Just drive on in and camp."  This attracts last minute
weekend partiers. At least with the required reservation period for the
Park you know those people really wanted to go, and planned in advance
(generally speaking).

I don't have anything against alcohol, it's just that it goes with a lot of
other things when done to excess when camping.  Here are a few:

1.  Playing AC/DC or the like to 2 a.m. and making sure everyone in the
campground can hear it.

2.  Becoming violent with your buddies.  I always love it when one of the
guys in the next campsite gets into a fistfight with one of his buddies.

3.  Commenting to the group of women camped next to them how cute they are,
how nice their bodies look, etc or better yet, denigrating one of the women
- calling her a dog or fat. Yeah, I just go camping with my women friends
so that I can pick up on guys.

4.  Describing in intimate details in a loud carrying voice just what you
are doing in the john and how it is progressing.

5.  And I really get a kick out of hearing these guys abuse their wives and
children when drunk.


Yep, I'd have to agree that the greatest annoyance in a campground comes
from drunks. I feel a lot safer backpacking than I do in any campground for
this reason. 

Valerie


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Subject: Just Curious 
Reply-To: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:52:48 GMT

Does anybody have or know someone who has an
REI Clipper tent (c. 1982)?  I think I may have the
only one in existence (possibly the only one sold), 
which would make it a valuable collectors item.

I'll take the flood of responses via email.

Lee Burghardt


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Re: Stackable Camp Cooking Gear
Reply-To: rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:00:39 GMT


Backpacking or otherwise, I wouldn't bother with anything
very elaborate.  The more you have, the more time you spend
washing it.  

For my family of five people I have found the following
perfectly adequate, and the stuff can be gotten just abouta
anywhere:

(1) A pair of nesting thin aluminum pots, for boiling things.
It's not so important for other stuff to nest in these, since
you can stuff other things inside. I think mine are 2 quarts.
(2) A Trangia aluminum kettle, for boiling water and making
coffee.  It's not really necessary, but I find it convenient,
since I can keep it on the outside of the pack and boil up
coffee for lunch without unpacking anything.
(3) A sierra cup (large) for each person, to eat out of (in
my callow youth, we all just ate out of the communal pot, but
I've got a family now, and the kids have to learn
table manners).
(4) A Lexan plastic spoon (you already have a knife, if you're
camping, and forks are not really all that essential. They were
virtually unknown at table before the Renaissance anyway).
--------
That ends the essentials.  It is nice to have an insulated plastic
mug for drinks (which cool off too fast in Sierra cups).  If you
are in a car, or traveling with pack animals, nothing beats a
cast iron skillet for frying things (mostly pancakes). I don't even
bother trying to fry things if I don't have the skillet along.
Also, nothing beats a dutch oven, but here we're talking about serious
weight.

I admit I also have a set of enameled tin cowboy plates and
coffee pot.  I took them along on a car-camping trip in Wisconsin
once, but we spent so much time washing them it wasn't worth it.
Now they just come out for picnics.
.


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Groenke <kevin@ssc.space.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: binoculars sought
Organization: Shepherd Labs
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:49:29 GMT

I don't know what kind of money you want to spend but here's my free $.02
worth.  I got a pair of Bushnell compact 10x24's for x-mass.  I love
these things. They are tiny, durable (rubber coated), and work fine (I
don't care about low light conditions etc..).

They are a narrow angle so they do require a pretty steady hand.

I have since seen these binocs for about $60.00.

Happy shopping.
***********************************************
Kevin J. Groenke	
Student Lab Services Coordinator				___			o		 					_	o
Shepherd Laboratories							_____		( 		\-						(  	\-
University of Minnesota						___		(*) \ (*)			(*) \ (*)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: royg@netcom.com (Roy H. Gordon)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 19:46:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

> I recommend reading "The Milagro Beanfield War".  Besides being an
> excellent book it provides a different perspective on the grazing 
> rights issue.  It will make you laugh.  It will make you cry.  It
> will make you wonder what hell right the US government had in appropriating
> the land in the first place. :-)

Can you elaborate a little please on the "different perspective" for
someone like myself who is unlikely to read the book in the next
nanosecond or two.

> I never saw the movie, but I can guarantee that it was missing 90%
> of the book.  Its a hefty one.

Surprising good movie, IMHO, directed by Robert Redford.  Says Maltin
(Movie and Video Guide, 1992):

	Spirited, fanciful tale of a rugged individualist (dirt-poor,
	hard luck ...) who decides to stand up to the big, brash
	developers who plan to milk his (and his neighbors') New Mexico
	land for all it's worth.  Distilled from John Nichols'
	sprawling novel by Nichols and David Ward, this film takes a
	whimsical tone that's positively infectious...aided by a 
	top ensemble cast, beautiful scenery, and Dave Grusin's
	lyrical, Oscar-winning score.

Somewhat relevant (I hope!) to this newsgroup because of its
anti-development bent.
From: kiravuo@hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo)
Subject: Re: Outback Oven - A Review
Reply-To: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Computing Center
	<1992Sep13.204336.16824@trentu.ca>
Date: 15 Sep 92 10:43:56

In article <1992Sep13.204336.16824@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:
>Please, someone, spin me tales of banana bread, of chocolate
>cake, of pilaf, anything that really really needs an oven.

I have used an Optimus Mini-oven twice. This is an apparatus made
in Sweden and sometimes found in Finland, mostly aimed towards
the boating market. It consists of three parts.
- an ordinary cake pan, that kind with a hole in the middle,
- a lid over the pan, with three small (~1-2mm) holes in it,
- a base plate that fits under the pan and has a hole in the
  middle, like in the pan.

As you can see, it should not be impossible to make this thing
yourselves, too.

The oven sits on the top of the stove and the instructions say
that almost any kind of stove can be used, gas, wood, electric
(for hot summer days when you don't want to warm up the oven)
etc. I hae used in on the Trangia stove with the alcohol burner
in the lowest setting (of the two settings). 

Due to the shape and small bottom area of the pan I don't think
that you could make pizza on it, but my girlfriend baked a dry
cake in it all right when we tested it at home and I made a batch
of lasagna in a snow cave last spring. I could not use the stove
in the summer since that one we used was borrowed from my mother
and she wanted it back to her boat, but I managed to buy one
stove this fall and I am now planning further testing on the
subject. 
--
Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi
Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rbear@inferno.uoregon.edu (Richard Bear)
Subject: South Sister
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 23:25:31 GMT
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:24:20 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <18ic33INNdmp@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
>... I wouldn't worry about altitude sickness.  Unless you climb
>the peaks, you will probably be below 11,000' all of the time.
>You will feel the elevation the first day, but after that it should
>not be a problem.

Careful here.  The dominant factor here is the altitude at which you
sleep.  Coming in from sea level (I assumed the author of the message
was in New Haven from the address), you're pretty safe if you're
sleeping below 8000 feet, but in the Yosemite high country you can
easily spend a significant amount of time above that.  I would
recommend against flying in and going directly to some of the
beautiful spots easily availble the first day from the paved road over
Tioga Pass.

My observations are based on personal experience (HAPE in Colorado)
and resulting conversations with a doc in Breckenridge who was up on
the subject enough to have several publications.  At the very least,
east-coasters with little prior experience with altitude should read up
on the subject.  In fact, everyone who spends intermittent time at
altitude should.  In particular, severe medical complications are
*usually* easily avoided by prompt descent, but it is essential to be
able to separate out symptoms of advancing trouble from the malaise
of the first day or two which Blake mentions.

chris
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Water treatment article from Am J Pub Health (1989)
Date: 7 Sep 92 12:36:16 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

kehoe@netcom.com (Thomas David Kehoe) writes:
> This season I started using chlorine instead of iodine.  The
> main reason is that I was diagnosed as hypothyroid ...
> I also filter with a Timberline filter -- cheap (<$30) and light.

The warning about hypothyroidism is important.  Anyone with any kind of thyroid
condition should check with a doctor before using iodine disinfection
treatments.

You may be getting redundant but inaequate water treatment.  According to the
table that Bill Tuthill posted, the Timberline has a 2-micron pore size.  This
is marginal for filtering Giardia cysts.  (Ongerth et al didn't test the
Timberline, nor anything else with a pore size between 0.4 and 6.0 microns.) 
And chlorine does not kill Giardia cysts, at least not at 10C for 8 hours. 
Since you cannot use iodine, I would recommend a smaller-pore filter.

> Seems fine to me.

Based on what?  Be careful.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:47:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep8.201047.24419@tera.com> richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) writes:
>In article <18ibk0INNdl1@agate.berkeley.edu> bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
>The second paragraph stated that the [cattle] grazing
>maintained plant vigor and helped keep wildflowers and meadows healthy.

Pity the sickly wildflowers and meadows.  Rejoice in the healing cattle.
  
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Jeff Wishnie <jwishnie@taligent.com>
Subject: Re: Backpack recommendations and comments (e.g., Mountainsmith,
     Lowe)
X-Message-Id: <A6D3B4B62001C1F5@kip-51.taligent.com>
X-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:03:34 GMT
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d3
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:06:17 GMT

In article <Bu8n5E.ABC@world.std.com> Ari I Halberstadt,
ari@world.std.com writes:

I have the Mountain Smith Frost Fire II and am very happy with it. I've
had no probles with straps, seams, or so one. It has built in compression
straps so you can synch down on the pack and make it small. Fully
expanded its got a lot of space.

- Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Floating through a forest fire
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:04:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.154601.21455@ncar.ucar.edu>
ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>] >felt that we were privileged to have seen the fires, and lucky to have been
>] >untouched by them.
>] 
>] Interesting story, Ilana.  However, the question remains, did you see
>] any burned cows?
>
>We were sure hoping to!  I like my steaks kinda rare, but char-broiled
>is ok by me!  
>
>(No cows along the Salmon, at least none that we saw.  Not counting
>cow elk, of course.) 

Cows?  Hell (s Canyon) terrestial animal flesh?
Well, what about a nice, fresh, finely poached salmon?
Thin fillets, flakey, orange meat which melts in your mouth...
Baked potato from the ground....

Several years ago driving home from the Meadows, there was a fire
on the road descending to Yosemite Creek.  It was one of those fires
they were watching, but not putting out.  It was weird.  All of a
sudden a Chevron tanker truck for the Meadows gas station drove the
opposite direction.  You know: the kind which reads "No open flame within
50 feet."  That driver must have had a story to talk about.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: Floating through a forest fire
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:10:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.195122.17744@ico.isc.com>, carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes) writes:
> >/\                Ilana Stern DoD#009  ilana@ncar.ucar.edu 
> >  \_][ <--NCAR       Colorado...is totally rectangular.
> 
> How can that be, if it's on the surface of a sphere?

Riemann geometry.

-- 
/\                Ilana Stern DoD#009  ilana@ncar.ucar.edu 
  \_][ <--NCAR       Colorado...is totally rectangular.
      \_Boulder______________________________________________________Kansas__
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Rickettsia, Giardia, Filters
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 10:17:11 EDT(-0400)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
> My best guesses about this data are that a low pH, long
> exposure time, and adequate chlorine concentration (you're on your
> own here...) are the best bet to chemical treatment.

Ongerth et al speculated that there may be another reason -- that some Giardia
are more resistant.

: However, our results generally indicate more stringent requirements for
: effective inactivation of Giardia cysts.  Differences between cyst
: populations used in the two studies could account for the observed
: differences, even though both were G. lamblia.  Cysts produced in our
: trophozoite - gerbil system had consistently high intrinsic viability (>80
: percent), excysted efficiently when fresh (80 to 90 percent), and have
: appeared more resistant to halogen disinfectants than reported previously
: (Ongerth J.E.: unpublished).

from "Backcountry Water Treatment to Prevent Giardiasis"
by Ongerth et all, AJPH Vol 79, No 12, pp 1633-1637.
full text posted in monthly posting:
Subject: [l/m 8/24/92] Water filters & Giardia	Distilled Wisdom (9/28) XYZ

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Outback Oven - A Review
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:32:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.204336.16824@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca
(Kate Gregory) writes:
>Please, someone, spin me tales of banana bread, of chocolate
>cake, of pilaf, anything that really really needs an oven.

A mentor who was in the Corps of Engineers built an oven from cookie sheets.
The thing uses kitchen pins on detachable hinges.  We assemble it, set up a
pile of rocks to hold it up. Selection of fire wood is important: not too
green and not too much smoke.
Very impressive.  We carried it on various trips.  We would hike 2-3 days
before breaking it out.  Setting it up and collecting 1.5 inch by say 8 inch
sticks, we would set the thing up.  Great cakes and brownies and ginger bread
would emerge from the thing.  That next to fresh caught pan fried golden trout,
who would need to think about post-trip restaurant food?  We'd mix up the
batter, lightly grease the pan, and fill with mix.  Typically served quite
a few people.

Seriously.  What after-trip burger (I no longer eat burgers) could compare?
It's interesting to watch as this reflector oven does its thing, no door,
and you don't need much wood.  Sure a few ashes might get on the top of a cake
but its no biggie.  Watching what ever bake and rise while viewing a favorite
sunset can't be beat as some say.

Now, that he's retired, the oven just sits somewhere in his garage in
Bishop along with all kinds of other weird wonderful toys.

But the oven takes away from time climbing or hiking.
If one really wants to eat fantastic foods, one should visit a city.
San Francisco is marginally acceptable.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 8 Sep 1992 13:59:28 GMT
Organization: /etc/organizaton
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep5.205343.26094@midway.uchicago.edu> bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Bernie Rauscher) writes:
>I just got back from a rather pleasant few days packing around the
>Sangre de Cristo Mountains of NE New Mexico...
>Imagine my surprise, therefore, to arrive at a small forested glen at
>tree line and discover a rather large herd of cattle dropping bucket loads
>of what cattle make best into the "fragile" stream. 

I had the same experience in exactly the same location.  The cows really
do make a mess of the meadows, and pretty well destroy a trail to boot.

I expressed my surprise to a backcountry ranger that cattle grazing
was allowed in a wilderness area.  She gave me the impression
that this was a somewhat unique situation.  I suspect the grazing rights
were grandfathered in when the Pecos Wilderness Area was established.
Anyone know for sure?


-- 
                 Blake P. Wood - bpw@ctxsys.lanl.gov (505) 665-6524
                 Group P-1, MS-E526, LANL, Los Alamos, NM  87545

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry