HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: YES there is a FAQ for soc.motss
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 15:44:26 EST
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bmarcum@world.std.com (Bill Marcum) writes:

>How does this newsgroup differ from soc.motss or alt.sex.motss?  Or for that
>matter from alt.flame, alt.cascade, etc?  Oh well, another day, another
>dozen newsgroups to unsubscribe.



Yes, there is a FAQ for this group. It is posted monthly. The latest edition is
sitting in /pub/QRD/qrd/info/motss-faq-10.29.92 on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu


---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 1993!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"I will never apologize for the United States of America, ever. I don't care
what the facts are." -- George Herbert Walker Bush, President of the USA.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:09:56 GMT

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov18132818@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU> corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.151255.17143@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>   Really, the school's overall emphasis
>   over the past decade-and-a-half or so has shifted towards
>   professionalism.  The music school, too.

>Should the school be prejudging which actors a casting director may
>want in the future?

Absolutely not, and I really hate the professionalization
of arts programs in general (I don't agree with Arne's
assertion that these programs are necessarily professional,
having been through a rather thorough arts education,
myself).  

The issue is somewhat deeper, too, than I think what has
been discussed here has reflected.  CMU's decision, even if
not overtly discriminatory, buys into and perpetuates a
fairly perverse notion of what an ordinary or generic
person is.  Black actors only get roles that are written
explicitly as black characters, just as fat actors only get
fat roles, etc.  Imagine my surprise (TV junkie that I am)
to see Harvey Fierstein on "Murder She Wrote" this past
Sunday, in a role where sexual orientation was completely
irrelevant (although his character apparently had some
large number of ex-wives).  He was just as much a sissy as
ever.  This, I think, is the direction that the popular
arts should be taking, and it seems to me that it won't
happen as long as schools like CMU try to perpetuate a
mythic image of the generic human.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:54:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.174943.9358@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>  But I thought that you hated IM clothes irrespective of the twink
>models. Does this mean that you would actually buy some if they let
>Steve Dyer model them?

(!!)  Chortle.  After YOU, Mike!  You're closer to their offices, after all!
You'd probably wear that Guatemalan Aviator Rope Thong more proudly than
I ever could.

:-)


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Nov16.150919.12835@pixel.kodak.com>
	<1992Nov16.164240.26011@trentu.ca>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:16:40 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov16.164240.26011@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:

   In article <1992Nov16.150919.12835@pixel.kodak.com> chuck@fourier.ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461) writes:
   >It was a powerful piece, including an unbelievable scene where two homophobes
   >(married man and woman) were accosting her in a parking lot.  The woman 
   >screamed at Margaret saying, "My husband fought in two wars to protect us
   >from people like YOU!"  And Margaret calmly replied, "No, he didn't fight
   >against people like me."

   My husband watched that segment with me. He was stunned by the woman
   in the parking lot, who was yelling that "you people are trying to
   ruin this country" and so on. He asked me later what on earth makes
   people so scared and so hateful. I think it was the first time he
   really realized, in his gut, that there is a level of discrimination 
   that is more than just
   politely firing a person or impersonally not voting for them, a
   level that involves yelling stupid things in parking lots, a level
   that can cross the line to violence easily.

Actually, what the woman yelled was even more disturbing.  She first
yelled, "You are trying to ruin this country.  The country I'd give my
life for!"

Margaret said, "I almost did give my life for it, ma'am".

The woman's response?  "I wish you had!"
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:06:49 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <mattm-171192124757@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew
Melmon) writes:
|> No, no, no.  Just checking to see if I could still remember at
|> least *one* of the skits (well, there's Belushi as the samurai deli 
|> dude and Chevy Chase as the news anchor - did Tomlin have one
|> where she was a little girl and sat in a high chair and said
|> "That's the twuth, pthhhhptht"?  I *know* Tomlin did something
|> with slurred R's!!!)

Yes, but you're off by about a decade... that was "Laugh-In"...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Oprah 11/19
Organization: Stanford University
	<1992Nov20.040700.26375@col.hp.com>
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:12:03

In article <1992Nov20.040700.26375@col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com
(Walter Smith) writes: 

   1) I believe that whether a person is gay or straight depends on
   genetics.  Therefore, when a person is born, it has already been
   determined...being gay is not "learned behavior that one can
   change" as the religious fanatics would have us believe.  Is this
   belief correct?

Probably.  But it doesn't matter.

- Bob
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:47:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <17931@autodesk.COM>, owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) wrote:

> I am one Queer who doesn't believe that government can force
> people to change their minds about socially acceptable bigotry.

Bless you, bless you, bless you.
 
> I look back on the civil rights struggle of racial minoritys and find
> that for all the government regulation regarding non-discrimination
> there is still plenty to go around. legislation does not cure bigotry.
> 
> In my opinion bigotry is a function of ignorance, and only balanced
> education has the potential to deal with that.
> 
> do you agree?

Absolutely.

*X*
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian Visibility on Roseanne
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:45:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.42
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1e3mrpINNl49@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> renata@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Renata Zaliznyak) writes:
>
>
>TMCCARTNEY writes:
>>[I'm paraphrasing] Does Sara Gilbert (Darlene) set off your gaydar?
>
>YES! YES! YES! Big Time.
>I've been waiting for her to come out for years.  I thought her whole thing
>last year,(dressing in black, being depressed) was a prelude to her
>coming out.  I guess we'll just wait and see.

WOW!  I just posted my other article commenting on that before I read
this post.  I'm glad to see I'm not alone.  Maybe they were going in that
direction and got vetoed by the network.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:58:47 GMT

In article <69575@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
[]
  You know, the only person in this forum that I can think of who 
consistantly, repetitively, and boorisly whines about people other
than His Type is GDM. It's really quite boring, and probably indicative
of some sort of insecurity.  
  Feh.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:59:25 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>
>>Six months ago I didn't know how to make
>>mashed potatoes.  Now I'm making things like pan-steamed sage
>>potatoes, salmon scallops in peppercorn vinaigrette, pollo 
>>tonnato.  I'm making aioli.  Lemon mayonnaise.  My favorite
>>dish so far?  It's a pasta dish that, if made for 4 people, calls
>>for *twenty* cloves of garlic.  Sheer heaven.
>
>Father! What about the bacon? All that nummy lard! I was *so*
>hoping when the family finally got together we'd cozy up with
>a big plate of cholesterol and bond around a hog... Oh, how
>could you do this to me?
>
>John, world crumbling to Bac-o's around him

Damn right, JD!  You just barely beat me to the question: "WHAT ABOUT THE
BACON?!!"

ArneDearest, what is it with all this frufru stuff?  There's just no real
*substance*! (With the possible exception of the garlic.)  We'll just have
to get you out to the country for a REAL MEAL [tm].  JohnJohn, what *shall*
we prepare?  Let's start planning the menu now.

-jeff [just back from Portland; just a glimpse of a fine jewel (thanks, Mark).
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Re: bear vs. twink
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:46:07 GMT

>Since I have no use for walruses or otters, however, I will vote against

Damn, I've got otter, bear and wolf in my working vocabulary, now I have to
add walrus.  What the hell is a walrus?

Joe,
who perfers to lunch with twinks but on bears      

(the women never have to keep track of this stuff; all they have to do
is work on their curve balls.)
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Bear Crap
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:48:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov16.014831.25069
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <69575@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I find it interesting that when the Bears are discussing what they
>find attractive in this forum, we get the cries of "Oh no, all that
>Bear crap again!"

Could someone provide me with a recent example of this, like say a
direct quote or a reference to an article I'm likely to remember? I
don't doubt there are anti-bear forces, but I honestly can't recall an
instance of anti-bear whiners on motss. I'm getting to the point of
successfully reading motss with a rose-coloured bias on my CRT,
though, so maybe I've missed something. At any rate, I'm curious.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: weaverb@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Brian Weaver)
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:34:16 GMT

jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY)) writes:

>My understanding is that the law regarding 'defacing of money' or whatever
>changed significantly 10 years or so ago.. You are now perfectly alright to
>make jewelry and other things with honest to goodness real money. I think
>that applies to 'Gay Money' stamps... I've decided I'm going to get one and
>stamp every bill I get my hands on.

 I think that defacing money is going to do nothing but bring
even more resentment against the gay community. You should think
very carefully about what the response from the majority of the
population when they receive a bill with a stamp on it. I believe
it will do nothing but hinder the progress of the gay community, just
as radical groups like "Queer Nation" do.


Brian Weaver                      University of Colorado at Boulder
weaverb@rintintin.Colorado.EDU    (internet)
-- 
Brian Weaver (303) 786-2619       University of Colorado at Boulder
weaverb@rintintin.Colorado.EDU    (internet)
KD6CFA@W0LJF.#NOCO.CO.USA.NOAM    (packet radio in Colorado) 
KD6CFA@N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA     (packet radio in California) 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Clinton Should Issue Pardons
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:59:23 PST


While most of the focus has been to keep the pressure on Clinton to keep
his campaign pledge to remove the ban on GLBs in the military, I don't
think that we should forget that there are steps that he should take in
his remaining two months as governor of Arkansas.

Arkansas is one of the states that still makes homosexual sodomy a
crime. There are hundreds of men languishing in Arkansas prisons today,
having been convicted of this offense. I say that Governor Clinton
should issue a full, complete, and unconditional pardon to each one of
them before he leaves office.

While such a step would in no way redress those who have suffered at
the hands of the state, it would at least allow Clinton to enter the
presidency penitent and remorseful for the wrongs that his
administration has done to these people.

        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48372 rec.pets.cats:13855
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.pets.cats
Subject: Re: gayfolk and cats
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:34:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov19.023412.26766
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <BxMys9.8vL@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) 
writes:
>
>What is it about gay people and cats?  Why do these independent, selfish, 
>aloof creatures strike such a chord with us?

I don't like cats.  I know a number of people who don't like cats.  I think
cats have become more popular because they're not as much work as dogs. 

>I used to be a dog-person, 
>but now I'm a confirmed cat lover, largely because of the Bombay mix purring 
>in my lap right this very moment.

Situational catophilia, someone similiar to situational homosexuality on
submarines. 

>I believe that there is something about cats, something very basic and
>primal, that strikes a chord with gayfolk.  As frequent victims of the
>brutish and uncultured, we appreciate their grace and beauty of form.  

I think this is digging pretty deep into the stereotypes. 

>As a group that has been told who to love and who not to love, we admire 
>their defiance; their love must be is earned, and can never be compelled.
>As a people who have learned to survive, we respect their tenacity and 
>force of will; we understand about claws, and when it's time to flee.
>
>All I can add is this: when darkness closes in and jungle creatures 
>lurk all around, cats remain unpreturbed but watchful.  

Have you thought about entering the turgid prose contest?   Maybe you could
win a spell checker.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47844 alt.politics.homosexuality:7289 co.politics:2085 co.general:1786 talk.politics.misc:60440 co.politics.amend2.discuss:44 boulder.general:1045
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:48:59 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Nov16.161835.18739@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
>Phil Earnhardt writes:
>#Are you implying some sort of causal relationshiop between this boycott
>#and the speed at which the lawsuit gets handled? Interesting.
>
>No, I am implying some sort of causal relationship between the law no
>longer being in force, and the boycott ending.
>
>#An interesting point of view. Can you give us some history about how you
>#adopted it? In other words, have you had to suffer in the past with boycotts
>#because neighbors around you did dumb things?
>
>Look at Phoenix. They lost a lot of trade over the MLK day.

>-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
> USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
> Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
> UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w



Well, since a lot of the funding for the Amendment 2 effort came from Virginia's
own Pat Robertson and his merry band of homophobic fanatics, why don't you boycott 
Virginia as well? You could start by not paying your Va. income tax this year (since
that indirectly supports Mr. Robertson's tax-exempt organization). You should also
not pay your Federal income tax this year, for the same reason (you also won't
be contributing any Federal funds to Colorado that way). Of course, you'll have to
stop doing any business with Virginia companies - which may make grocery shopping
somewhat inconvenient. Accepting salary from, or paying tuition to, UVA is of course
out of the question. 

A general boycott will mostly affect areas which voted *against* 2 (most of rural
Colorado will be spectacularly unaffected by your efforts) - namely the ski resorts
and the Denver metro area. Denver, Aspen, and Boulder have *already* filed suit to
have the amendment overturned (Boulder has also, with it's usual flair for the
dramatic, discussed seceding from the state). The Federal courts are the best
hope for overturning this Amendment - if you're really serious about doing
something effective, may I suggest that you send contributions to EPOC (the
organization that most strongly opposed #2) and the ACLU (which has joined 
Boulder, Aspen, and Denver in their lawsuit). With any luck, that effort
will succeed.

Steve
From: palepink@lily.arts.com (Suzii Abe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Date: 22 Nov 92 05:06:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: lily.Z1JmuB2w165w

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> >>[of George Stehanophoulos]
> Think ethnicity, and think of the recent hirsuit controversy thread.
> What would be the job whose tradition demands such an attribute?

Ok, I'm thinking.

Jobs requiring specific hirsuteness levels:

	Santa Claus
	Human chimney broom
	Telly Savalas stand-in
	Marine seargeant
	Orthodox rabbi
	Lady Godiva
	Humpty-Dumpty
	Breck Girl

None of these seem to specifically match Stephanopoulan ethnicity.
Anyone care to augment the list?

--Suzii.
palepink@lily.arts.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:21:45 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson):
>> Anyway, I think rap and punk are
>> both basically music for disaffected youth,
>> so similarities shouldn't be surprising.

>Like that they're both loud and irritating?
>Arne (wh spent the better part of yesterday listening
>to the Schwarzkopf/Fischer-Dieskau recording of Wolf's
>Italienisches Liederbuch and to several sides of the
>big Wolf Society set)

About which the same could certainly be said...

Dan (wh spent the better part of yesterday listening
to Crash Worship and Sun Ra)








_____________________________________________________________________________
Dan Bidwa                             I believe nothing and in nothing.
dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu       !disclaim!   I believe everything and in everything.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: spencer@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: Not Enough Sucking on Keanu
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:54:49 GMT

In article <mattm-151192115055@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>The Wall Street Journal has BETRAYED me!  They said Keanu Reeves
>spent 'most of the movie' trapped in a castle having the blood
>sucked out of him by three nymphos.
>
>He spent THREE MINUTES trapped in a castle having the blood
>sucked out of him by three nymphos... (though the nymphos first
>appear by rising up out of the sheets between his spread legs...)

Well, maybe he DID spend the whole movie trapped in the castle, even if
they didn't always have him on screen.  (Pity!)

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more
divine means of consumption.  Let us give praise to our Maker and glory to His
bounty, by learning about... BEER..."  [Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves]