HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agha@cs.uiuc.edu (Gul Agha)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:59:32 GMT


   From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
   Date: 15 Dec 92 19:35:10 GMT

   When Advani incited the destruction of the Babari mosque, he ignored
   the possible reaction on hindus in Sindh (his birthplace). 

There are two populations in Sindh.  The (indigeneous) native Sindhis
and a variety of immigrants into Sindh.  For some time, it has been
obvious that the two groups do not generally get along.  Many of the
latter group consists of immigrants from India, almost all of these
live in larger cities and a number of that group harbors bitterness
towards Hindus.  On the other hand, most Hindus in Sindh live in small
towns and villages in areas where almost all the population consists
of natives.  They get along well with their neighbors and feel most
secure.  In large cities, I don't think they feel are secure and
recent events show that they are right in this feeling.

Incidentally, it is not uncommon in many areas that native Sufis will
invite Hindus to pray at their mosques or will in turn pray at the
temples.  The vast majority of native Sindhis subscribe to Sufi
beliefs and most of the remaining are entirely secularized by some
left-wing ideology or by Sindhi nationalism.

Peace,

Gul Agha
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:09:25 GMT
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University

In article <lj1vblINNo1j@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan
Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec17.055207.24892@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
aam9n@honi1.acc.Virginia.EDU (Ali Ahmad Minai) writes:
> >
> >Very well put. This is greatest Achilles heel of the whole Two Nation
> >argument, which is why, in all the volumes of propagandistic "history"
> >put out in Pakistan, there is hardly any mention of this issue. As
> >Sumitro elegantly points out, if the Two Nation Theory had a basis
> >in truth, Partition was exactly the *worst* thing to do, given the
> >demographics of India. And it is precisely those who think in terms
> 
> This line of reasoning that uses
> hindsight is actually most common in the younger generation
> of Pakistanis. Most vocal opposers of the founding of Pakistan
> are not only criticizing the founding fathers, but are in fact
> trying to hide their own shortcomings and worthlessness. Most
> Pakistanis indulge in this exercise in the following vein (not
> Mr. Minai):
> 
> A father presented a second hand car to his son. The son turned out
> to be a spoiled brat, who in his intoxication, and rashness rammed
> the car in an accident, and lost his one limb. Then, 
> he started criticizing his father for why having given him the
> second hand chevette  in the first place. He conjectured
> that had he been given a mercedes, he would not have lost
> the limb because it is much more sturdier and strong!!!!
> 


If the issue is of events occuring eons ago, it would be meaningless
to make value judgements to form a favourable/unfavourable opinion of
people/events of those ages.

However in this thread, though it is unproductive to fight over events which
took place in '47, one cannot reject the lessons which can be learnt by an open
and  honest appraisal of people/politics of '47, only because events of those
years are relevant to issues today and do affect present day society.









> As Mr. Minai puts it:
> 
> >
> >Of course, it is much easier to philosophize with the advantage of
hindsight,
> >and I'm sure many of the political decsions taken in the 1940's were taken
> >because the alternatives were politically impossible. Our task is neither
> >to lament what happened nor seek to undo it, but to ensure that its benefits
> >are maximized and its harm controlled. As I have said before, we must bury
> >our petty prejudices.
> 
> The above is in essence the lesson.



Right .


--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq M. Butt)
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Organization: Motorola RISC Software, Austin, TX
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:14:47 GMT

In article <BzG4pM.J2o@ecf.toronto.edu> rairan@ecf.toronto.edu (RAI Ranjan) writes:
>>In article <Dec.16.20.20.14.1992.15621@paul.rutgers.edu> varma@paul.rutgers.edu (not yet) writes:
>>>
>>>          Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
.... deleted...
>
>I find this whole business rather ironic.  Pakistan has been kissing Uncle 
>Sam's red, white, and blue ass for over forty years and this is the way
>the US pays them back.  On the other hand, India has stubbornly insisted
>on it's non-aligned stutus since 1947, and now the US is doing it's best to
>be friendly towards India.  Maybe Pakistan should start behaving more like 
>India.  Any thoughts?
>

I don't find the US' behavior ironic in the least. As usual, when the 
cost/benefit ratio began to tilt in India's favor, the US dropped 
Pakistan like a hot potato. It was Pakistan who dreamily thought that 
the US really, emotionally gave a hoot about Pakistan. The only countries
that the USA can be said to "care" about are the ones that have a huge local
constituency (Israel, many European countries etc.). As for Pakistan, 
the USA was a pal as long as conditionsi suited them and have now begun a 
massive tilt towards India.  Watch for more and more pressure put on vocal 
Islamic countries by the USA. This pressure does not always come directly 
from the the USA, but sometimes even from the stooge regimes in the 
Persian Gulf: this week circa. 50,000 Pakistanis were silently deported 
from Dubai for demonstrating against the Babri Masjid issue. 

So what should Pakistan do: IMHO, we should immediately begin attracting 
non-Western capital (i.e. Japanese, Malaysia, Chinese etc.) by 
*whatever means we have to* and create Far-Eastern interests in Pakistan.
That way we stand a chance of being listened to as a productive, 
exporting country. Remember: as long as we remain beggared loudmouths
shouting Islamic slogans nobody in power will listen.  The powerful 
only respect the powerful: be that economically powerful or militarily 
powerful or geopolitcally powerful.  We have no real huge military and 
have no chance of getting one real soon, no geopolitical importance 
anymore so we have concentrate of gaining economic mass ASAP. 

I think the US/Pak relationship is over and will, at best, continue 
(like most divorces do) at a very cool level.  As for this kooky idea 
of branding Pakistan a terrorist state: I think this may be the time
for all you neela passport holding Pakis to start calling up Capitol 
Hill and writing letters.  Remember if this insane legislation passes, 
you may have a hard time even travelling back home...


fmb

-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
From: imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: News
Date: 12 Dec 92 16:37:34 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines


	Muslims in Pakistan offered Jumma Prayer in one of the 
	biggest temple in Sindh near Indus River.
From: mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RE: Dilip Kumar
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:00:54 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

	Acoording to my knowledge, Raj Kapoor and his family came for Peshawar
and were Pushto speakers. They were also Hindus. This does little to prove that
Urdu is the language of muslims, or Hindi is the language of Hindus.I know
quite a few Hindus who speak Sindhi and are not muslims. Mansoor Khan is right,
language has got nothing to do with religion (I think that was his point). 
	The reason why Dilip Kumar changed his name has got nothing to do with
his being a muslim. Changing names in the movie industry is a common practice
and the reson for choosing Dilip Kumar was simple, there were quite a few
actors named Kumar at that time thus it added to the appeal. In Hollywood, Cary
Grant and Rock Hudson were both adopted names.
						Saqib Mausoof
From: shamim@feldspar.egr.msu.edu (Tariq Shamim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: PAKISTAN A SUPERWAR AND GREAT PEOPLE ON THIS NET
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:08:49 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <Bz68D8.LtI@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, ghayalm@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
|> > 
|> >A GOOD SUGGESTION !!
|> >
|> >We certainly have the experience of rulling over India for more than 1000 years and
|> >hence have better qualifications to rule.  However, we have to change the name of 
|> >India to ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF INDIA since minorities can live more peacefully in an
|> >Islamic country than a so called secular country (proof: compare the number of riots
|> >based on religion in Pakistan (Islamic) and India (secular ???) since 1947).
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> > It certainly would solve alot of festering problems.
|> >|> -- 
|> >|> Ranjan Rai                             <rairan@ecf.toronto.edu> 
|> >|> Engineering Science 9T3                <rr@odin.control.toronto.edu> 
|> >|> University of Toronto                    
|> >
|> >Tariq Shamim
|> >Mechanical Engineering
|> >Michigan State University
|> 
|> 
|> Isn't that the old Hindu caste system?  My ancestors were rulers/farmers/
|> warriors, so I should automatically be a ruler/farmer/warrior.  Or have
|> you lived for a 1000 years?  Pakistan's population is less than UP
|> and size is smaller than HP. Pakistan is the size of one state in
|> the Indian union, and also Pakistan has less than 2% Hindus and Christians,
|> so one would expect there to be less riots.  But is that true?
|> What about the Sunnis/Shiites, Pathans/Mohajjirs, Mohajjirs/Sindhis and
|> Muslims/Ahmadi Muslims riots?  Finally there are many Pakistanis who don't
|> agree that Pakistan is a truly Islamic republic.
|> 

You should have read my mail with the context of the stupid ideas of`
Mr. Ranjan Rai.  I dont know why you deleated the original mail.  Leave this
hypocracy and get a real life.  Pakistanis in general do not have any intention
to invade any country.
|> 
|> Manoj

Tariq Shamim
Mechanical Engineering
Michigan State University
From: P.Hasan@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Pervaiz Hasan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: DEMONSTRATION - PAKISTAN EMBASSY - Re: PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS IN INDIA
Date: 17 Dec 92 11:13:09 GMT

Bismillahirrahmanirrahim

Assalam-o-alaikum Brs & Srs,

	There is a demonstration on Friday after Jumma at the Pakistan Embassy
in London (details are given below). 
When will the muslims wake up - Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia, India ..... 
Every muslims should look at himself regarding each of these situtions and 
see if he/she has fullfilled his/her duty. 
Are the muslims not concerned that their Sister are getting raped that their
brothers are being tortured & killed, and their children are being abused and
murdered.

"Anyonewho wakes up in the morning and does not care fore the affairs of the
Ummah, is not one us" Muhammed (SAW)
This is  what the Prophet (SAW) said, yet we find Muslims fail to respond
positively. 

The issue is not just the mosque, the issue is the muslim blood being so cheap.
Remember that the Prophet (saw) said that the blood of a muslim is worth more
than the Ka'aba and all its surroundings.
Think about the armies we have and the millitary might we possess, and yet
they do nothing but clean their weapons and target practice. Their orders from
the corrupt leaders is not wage Jihad but to suppress their own people from
calling for Jihad and Islam.

There are three way in which a muslim can fullfill his/her duty of Jihad :
 `.......By your Wealth, By your Tongue, By your Body`.

It is importent that the muslims in Britain support this Demonstartion.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

	  MUSLIMS OF INDIA, WILL THEIR CRY GO UNHEARD !!!!



  It is the duty ie fard of the Muslim governments to do everything
in their power to come to the aid of Muslims in India ;especially
those governments who are in close proximity to the area,like
Bangladesh and Pakistan.We would like to encourage the Pakistani
government to take the following measures:

  1) Break off diplomatic relations with India;maintaining any
relationship with a government presiding over  a vicious onslaught
against Muslims is totally unacceptable.

  2)Pakistan should lobby the Gulf States to impose a total trade
ban(especially an oil embargo) on India and expell all Hindus in their
territories.

  3)Additionally they should lobby all Muslim countries to break off
diplomatic ties with the murderous Indian regime.

  4)If Pakistan's Generals really want to undertake some
comprehensively Islamic action,then they should use all means
necessary to the lives,property and honour of Muslims in India.

DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRAT

PAKISTAN EMBASSY
LOWNDES SQUARE
LONDON SW1    (NEAREST TUBE:KNIGHTSBRIDGE)

FRIDAY 18TH DECEMBER
2.30pm

ORGANISED BY WESTMINISTER ISLAMIC SOCEITY
IN CONJUNCTION WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ISLAMIC SOCEITIES OF:
Imperial
LSE
Kings
UNL
UCL
South Bank
QMW
Brunel

Contact Mohammed on 071-723 5429.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasalaam
Pervaiz Hasan (UCL).
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: NEARLY A DOZEN MOSQUES DESTROYED YESTERDAY
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:55:27 GMT

Repl to: soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.pakistan, soc.culture.bangladesh

The earthquake department of Allah's adiministration destroyed
nearly a dozen mosques in INDONESIA by causing a powerful earthquake
on 15 devcember.

BBC reported that this powerful earthquake killed over 1000 people 
and injured several thousand others.

QUESTIONS:

1) Why did Allah destroyed mosques which were build to pray him
not one, but five times a day by very devout people?

2) Will their be a protest in Islamic Countries against Allah
for wanton and dastardly act of destruction of not one, but nearly
a dozen places of worship?.

Will protesters take to street against Allah and burn few more places
of worship in rage? 

3) Can Allah be declared a fanatic of other religion for destroying 
places of worship?

4) Can Allah be banned for religious offence?

5) Is there a quranic sura that explains why Allah himself caused
destruction of mosque? Is there any hadith about it?

6) can isssue be raised in UN security council for this anti-islamic
act of Allah by Organisation of Islamic Nations?

(It is a serious post. So please start a flame war against Allah.)

Regards,

bkumar
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18315 soc.culture.bangladesh:6799
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 18:15:48 CST
From: REHAN U. HAQUE. <U54479@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!

In article <BzBwoz.GLG@news.udel.edu>, khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame
Khalequzzaman) says:
>
>


>Show your courage and greatness today to the Bangladeshi people by
>apologizing for the atrocities organized by your previous generations.
>
>Khaleq
APOLOGIZE! FOR WHAT!
I certainly feel sorry for the so called atrocities committed by the Pakistani
Army; for the loss of so many lives and for the destruction of the "INFRASTRUCT
URE" of the country, but you can't expect me to apologize for the acts of other
s. I would have absolutely no objection to apologizing, if and only if, all Ban
gladeshis apologize to us Pakistanis for killing all those Pakistanis (from the
 west). When you are fighting for independence, you have to accept the fact tha
t innocent lives will be lost. Infact that is the worst thing about all this WA
R stuff. I am not trying to justify any wrongdoings by the Pakistani Government
at that time, or the Army, for that matter, but I just don't feel that I or the
 Pakistani people should be held responsible for the justified or unjustified a
cts of a few.
From: hareb_s@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: World outrage
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:14:55 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

Wonder how one whose own name is 'worm'='verma' 
can liken poeple to his own kind?!



In article <1992Dec9.141153.7775@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma) writes:
> 
> In article <SAHMED.92Dec8201115@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed) writes...
>> 
>>                              Agence France Presse
>> 
>>                                December  8, 1992
>> 
>>HEADLINE: Wave of outrage sweeps Moslem world over mosque destruction
>> 
> 
> 	WORMS on the attack.
> 
> 	How about outrage on Hindu temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh,
> 	you mosque-lover WORMS.
> 
>> ________________________________________________________________________\_/
>>/ \  							                   |
>>\_/ 									   |
>>| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
>>| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
>>| |________________________________________________________________________/
>>\_/
>> 
>> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: nd3375@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Nishit Dey)
Subject: Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:14:31 GMT

shamim@poplar.egr.msu.edu (Tariq Shamim) writes:



>|> >You must post an applogy, for using these words.  Otherwise a formal complaint
>|> >will be sent to your system director.   

i
        So what happened Mr. Tariq Shamim? After reading your posting I was so
scared...  I thought they will cancel all the accounts of Bengalis staying in
USA for insulting the LAND OF PURE and I thought poor Syed S. Towheed will be
deported.  I am so grateful to you Mr. Tariff Shamim for pardoning us this time.
I will request you to become the moderator of SCB so that nobody can commit
this type of crime against the Land of PuRe.  If you are too busy to take up
this responsibility then you can appoint Sir Mustafa Idiot as your assistant.
He is an  expert on the current political affairs of South Asian countries.  You
Pakistanis can enlighten us with your vast knowledge and wisdom.

>This probably means that there are some Bangladeshis who are against independen
ce !!
No never.  All Bangladeshis are against independence. How can they stay
separate from Pakistan, which is Purest and most richest country on this planet.
Now just look at the economy of Bangladesh.  Who will say that once they were
part of the most affluent country on earth.



>No Pakistani gives a damn whether you hate us or not.

How can anybody hate any Pakistani with the kind soul like you and Sir Mustafa
IDIOT as her citizen


>I was not old enough in 1971 to appreciate what was happening there.  However,
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you old enough now to appreciate? Doesn't seem like from your posting


>by reading mail of some Bengalis (like you) on this net, I am happy that
>Bengladesh is no longer a part of Pakistan(Land of Pure).
^^^^^^^^^^

But all Bangladeshis are so unhappy about the fact that PeKISTAN is no longer
their master. Forget about whatever has happened in the past.  Please take
them back again. It will be such a great honor for them to be a part of the
most purest, richest and strongest country on this planet.  In fact all the
countries in this world wants to join PeKISTAN

>Collaborators of whom???  They were defending their country against the
>foreign intrusion.


Yeah, Yeah you are 100% right. Oh! what wisdom and Knowledge.  Afterall you
are the citizen of most pUrest country on this planet

>I have a question to ask you, There are more than a million illegal Bengali
>workers in Karachi.  So are they pro or anti independence?


I have also a question to ask if you give me permission my lord. There are
few millions Behari Muslims in Dakha.  They want to go to the land of pUre.
Why Govt Of the Land of pUre not taking them back.  I am sure there might
be a very good reason behind it which I am unable to understand. If you
could spare few minutes to explain me that, my lord.

>Tariq Shamim


Nishit Dey
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:35:10 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:

>JUst imagine 1920s and Babri Masjid type riots happening every
>second year, and you will understand whehter Pakistan was formed
>for "human rights" or for Muslims.

Can you briefly list some of the major riots in this period ie;
where they occurred and a rough casualty figure if possible? I
would like to know how many Muslims were killed in the areas
covered by present day Pakistan and Bangladesh. If most Muslims
were killed in muslim-minority areas, did the two-nation theory
expect all muslims from these potentially dangerous regions to
move to the security of muslim-majority areas? Was this expectation
realized?

IMHO, creation of Pakistan left the secure muslims (in muslim-majority
areas) even more secure and the vulnerable muslims (in muslim-minority
areas) even more vulnerable because the anger felt by many hindus over
the division of the motherland would be now directed towards this
vulnerable group of muslims.

When Advani incited the destruction of the Babari mosque, he ignored
the possible reaction on hindus in Sindh (his birthplace). When "Aligarh"
muslim elites forced a division of India, they ignored the possible effect
on the remaining muslims in India.

Sumitro
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Whatz going on Shams?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:13:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu


>My dear Deepak Bose,
Stuff deleted

>Shams Hasan

>ps. try not to imbibe on yellow colored liquids, instead try coca cola
>with ice, it will taste much better, believe me!
	   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Shams dude, how do you know?  :-)

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ccgary@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (Gary Young)
Subject: Airlines Companies & Flying School addresses
Summary: I would like to obtain names and addresses of airline companies
Keywords: Names and addresses of airline companies
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:42:48 GMT

I'am very interested in obtaining names and addresses of aviation airline
companies and flying schools in Pakistan.
I would like to corresspond to overseas companies to offer trainees the opportunity to learn to fly professionally and learn a higher degree in aviation in
Australia at the Air Training Centre in Brisbane, Queensland.

For further information please contact me.

Thanking you

Gary Young                                 Edyucation Officer

Prentice Centre                         Tel: +61 7 365 4359
The University of Queensland            Fax: +61 7 365 4477
Queensland, 4072 Australia            Email: ccgary@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au
_________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: RESPONSE TO AHMEDI'S
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 06:02:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.193329.574@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu> axrahim1@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu writes:
>IF GHULAM AHMED WAS A TRUE MUSLIM THEN HE WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN A BATHROOM.
>SO PLEASE YOU MOTHER FUCKER AHMEDI'S DO NOT CALL YOUR SELF AS MULSIMS.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      
an extended vocabulary for extra emphasis, this vulgarity on the 
net is going to be downfall for ...........................

sahibzada rafay khan [ a few years in america and look at there language]