HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Am I alone????
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:47:47 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug25.143826.2022@wkuvx1.bitnet>, beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
> I would just like to know if others {male} have been sexually abused by thear 
> fathers.  I would just like to know I am not alone in this...

I personally have not, but I know men who have.  You are not alone.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: Re: Why Live?
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:58:05 GMT

In article <9209040022.AA12811@saturn.upl.com>, erc@khijol.upl.com (Ed Carp) writes:
>...
>
>In one of my more lucid moments, I realized that I wasn't *ready* to go -- I
>hadn't done lots of things that I wanted to do, and I certainly didn't want
>to die in my apartment, bleeding to death, or perhaps with a bullet in my
>head - dying alone, unwanted, unloved.  I didn't want to be remembered that
>way.  So...I hope this gives someone some comfort at those times in everyone's
>life when they are at the end of their rope - or feel like it...
>
>                      When I Go
>

>[great poem deleted, except for the last lines which
I really wanna re-emphasize]

>And I've decided not to
>die
>until I've had what I want!

Thanks Ed!!!  This is a very good thing for me to read tonight...

Ok, I was gonna postpone writing, which I always do (postpone, that is)
which means I usually don't write... so real fast, cuz I just got back
into town and haven't slept much the past 2 days, and have to catch
a plane in the morning....  I had some kind of panic attack tonight,
I'm ok now, I've read lots of posts (I'd gotten behind on asar) and there's
lots I want to say but I wanna wait until I'm not so tired (which might mean
never...  :-(  )  but I had to say thanks Ed for the poem and encouragement!
And also to someone else (sorry, I forgot who) who I just read a post
also giving reasons to live.

I also have been wanting to say thanks to Poohbear!!!!!  Poohbear, you
prolly don't know it, but I always feel like I am terrible at being
supportive, and when you included me in with the list of people who
had been supportive of you, I felt like I was of some good!!!  I know,
it seems like a silly little thing, but thanks anyway!  And I'm glad that
some of the suggestions helped some.   You are *not* a Bad Person for
cutting, and I hope I wasn't telling you what to do.  It seemed to me
like perhaps you might benefit from my sharing what goes on with me and
what sometimes provides a different release for me.  We want to see you
safe and happy, because we think you are a Good Person!  I hope this makes
sense...

Thanks everyone.  While I'm at it, a couple other msgs I was gonna
devote  a post to, but would prolly not get around to...  I certainly
hope WomanHater and Poohbear are both still around and reading...
and welcome Patrick... and Teresa, *hugs* to you!

again, thanks...

-kk
From: enigma@NETCOM.COM (Enigma)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Test Message
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:15:12 GMT


I just wanted to see how this service works.  I'm mailing directly to
alt-sexual-abuse-recovery@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (the same place the
new anon-service goes through).  I mainly want to see if my address
and .sig get posted along with the message text.

 nimma
From: sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: sunrise, sunset...sunrise, sunset...
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:45:50 GMT
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <Bttvn9.nB@twwells.com> anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>
>Another day.  10:30 Sunday night. 8/30.  I just finally handed in my
>last final paper from last semester on Saturday morning.  Now I get
>a week of summer, and start school again.  If they let me.

hi pooh bear!
i hope you can enjoy your week of summer. try and do some good things
for *you* to celebrate your courage.

>To everyone: ***Possible Spoiler***
> (&Robert, Sally, Wildflower)
>
>  I tried ice.  It worked sort of...it postponed the cutting, and I htink
>I didn't do it as deep as I might have.  I also wrote on my arm with red
>marker; not love mmessages but hate and blood but at least I wrote it
>instead of cutting it.  

good for you!! i'm so glad. the loving messages will come, i'm sure,
the less you feel the need to hate. take your own time; 10 written
messages of hate are better than 1 of cutting. it's important for you
to see your progress and feel proud of yourself!

> It is so weird that I get so much warmth from a computer screen.  You
>all are being so truly generous.  ASAR is safe, for me anyway, right now.
>I am sometimes amazwd to read what I wrote, and am glad that you are
>not all running for cover.  You are becoming special.  Oh, scary. 
>But there it is: you are.

and you are a special person too. having good feelings for people *is*
scary, but it's worth the risk imo. and you're safe here.

>I am in that detached state.  Oh yes, and by the way the secret is out: 
>while my regular therapist was on vacation, the guy I saw in lieu of her
>said, "Are you here with me now?" and when I didn't answer, it clued him
>in.  So we had a big discussion about it and I am supposed to now tell
>my regular therapist.  I told this guy that I was scared to tell her; I
>have been trying oh-so-very hard to not space when I'm with her.  But now
>it is out and he is going to tell her and I am scared.  I see her tomorrow
>am, but that will be over by time this makes it to the net.  

i hope everything went well with her. i know the prospect of her
knowing was scarey for you, but perhaps now she knows, you will be
able to make more progress. 

*hug* if you want it, hope to hear from you soon.
sally
>
>
>--
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: Re; talking to a survivor
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:17:49 GMT

[someone I don't recall who, complaining about it being like walking thru
 a minefield talking with a survivor]

Damn I hate these generalizations.  I absolutely have similar feelings of anger
& resentment, that someone else mentioned, cause I judge its a demeaning and 
prejudicial generalization.  

My two closest friends are both survivors of sexual abuse & moreover grew up in
incredibly abusive families.  Our friendships and attraction developed way before
I realized either of them had been sexually abused (& before they realized it either!)

My experience is that in talking with a survivor one must be very careful to not 
be manipulative.  One must not try to use them in any way to improve or prove one's
own sense of self.
	One must also actively participate in the relationship and conversation.  
When listening its neccessary to listen with my whole being.  To focus all my
attention on whom I am listening to.  When talking I have to focus on expressing myself.
Not just intellecualizing and analyzing something, but I need to understand and be
able to communicate how I am feeling.  I also need to be able to feel what I am feeling.
Sounds dumb but its pretty easy for me to analyze my feelings.  Its a whole nother story
to feel the knife piercing my heart as Shelly tells me she loves me & realize I'm so
afraid to accept that love cause of how vulnerable that leaves me.

	I guess what I'm saying is that I have chosen to discipline myself.  To teach
myself how to fully express my love for another and to learn how to accept the love
of another.  My experience is that I am blessed to know two survivors and have
wonderfully close friendships with them.  These two people have both been in extremely
positive ways tremendous guides and partners as I have tried to deepen my ability
to live in love.

	I might be able to find a lot to complain about in both these relationships.
Today I choose to reframe my focus & recognize the beautiful gifts both these people
are in my life.  Thank you for bringing this subject up cause its given me a chance
to acknowledge to myself how valuable these two people are to me :).

Fare-Well
Mike Stoughton (aka m&m)



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1202@twwells.com
Subject: Ouch. (SPOILERS)
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:12:42 GMT

Spoilers, everybody.



Jesus.

I appreciate the need to express hatred.  I believe the best way to get
beyond anger is to express and experience it.

But I'm sitting here feeling like someone has slapped me.  Two total
strangers, people I don't know and will probably never meet, have told
me they hate me.  Not because of who I am or what I've done; but 
simply because I was born female.

Pretty fucking familiar.

God, I wanted to believe this newsgroup was safe.  I suppose it's naive
to believe anything is safe.  And I suppose it's selfish of me to feel
threatened because of two people expressing their anger.  (I've no
doubt they have good reasons for their feelings.)  But I CAN'T DO THIS
HERE.  Every day of my life I fight to be seen as a PERSON, as whole
and complex and HUMAN as any man out there.  I AM TIRED OF FIGHTING.  I
am tired of being "ONE OF THEM."  I am one of YOU.  I AM HUMAN.

So go ahead; keep talking about what selfish bitches we all are, and
how we all lie about being raped.  Keep painting us all with a big,
fat, generalizing, dehumanizing brush.  After all, we're all exactly
the same, aren't we?  We couldn't possibly just want to live our own 
lives, could we?  JUST LIKE YOU???




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Why Live?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:33:58 GMT

Kara Jayne Keeter (kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu) wrote:

: a plane in the morning....  I had some kind of panic attack tonight,
: I'm ok now, I've read lots of posts (I'd gotten behind on asar) and there's

I've had an ongoing panic attack for the past two days, so much so that
I wasn't able to function very well - a (dubious) first for me. :(

Following the suggestion of a friend who knows about such things, I got out
my hypnosis and relaxation tapes.  The relaxation tape helped a little,
but the one that really helped with the panic was a set of two tapes called
"Bushido Personality Transformation" put out by Valley of the Sun in
Malibu, CA (Dick Sutphen's outfit).  The core of the tapes is that you
have control over what experiences you react to - you choose to experience
warmth and joy while letting go of the negative experiences.  They are
hypnosis - which means they take you down, feed your mind positive suggestions,
then bring you back up.  Perfectly safe - I've been using these sorts of
tapes for several years.

While I didn't get to sleep until well after 2 this morning, at least I
didn't lie in bed, shaking like I have for the past two nights. :)

I guess I'm not used to being the one needing help - I'm usually the strong
one, the one people turn to for help.  "Who Heals the Healer", eh, Stephen? :)

Anyway, this isn't an endorsement, but just something that halped me to get
through a nasty episode.  Your mileage may differ. :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: My mom's birthday
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:18:22 GMT

Well today's my mom's birthday.
I've been kind of coming to pieces all week, starting Sunday.  Shelly had her own
crisis Mon & Tues so I had something to focus on.  She's better now I get to
gace the music - fuck shit damn!@#$.

Its pretty damn scarey waking up one morning and feeling like I'm 14.  Having to get
dressed & come into work.  Michael doesn't have a clue what I'm supposed to be doing,
how's he gonna pull off this charade??  I've got a demo this morning.  Good thing is 
as I get on my suit jacket and sit down in front of my computer I feel a lot more
grown up.  So I guess I'll get thru it.

I'm just really confused right now.  My mom comes from a really abusive family.  Multiple
divorces, alcoholism, her dad sleeping around, sexual abuse.  As far as I can remember
she never sexually abused me.  The wounding I think comes from her emotional 
unavailability.  She is just totally suppressing all feelings.  I'm just feeling 
incredibly hurt and pissed off about the whole shit!!

Well I hoped writing this would help me feel better,
didn't seem to yet .

Fare-Well
Mike Stoughton  (aka m&m)



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Ouch. (SPOILERS)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:28:38 GMT

Doug Sojourner (doug@cdc.hp.com) wrote:

: Ouch too (& I'm not even in the group targeted).  Just now I don't
: feel like ever reading something from either of those two people
: again: even if there are good reasons for their pain, I don't think
: that justifies their saying something like that in this environment.
: It feels like abuse to me ...

Oh, yeah?  And who are these two abusing, besides themselves?  Be careful
about how and why you use the term "abuse" - it's too often used as a
manipulative term.  It feels like you are using "abuse" as a manipulative term
to stop *your* pain.

If people want to vent, why shouldn't they be allowed to?  Telling them
that they are "abusing" someone is a double slap in the face - first, you
are telling them to shut up, then you are calling them an abuser.  Worst
possible thing you could do to most survivors.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gberger@hubcap.clemson.edu (Gary Berger)
Subject: Report about "doing something for moi"
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:35:28 GMT

Well, thank you for all the affirmation, those of you who responded.
Its great, its like I'm discovering music all over again.  I LIKE IT!
I picked up Rush's Presto.  It has been a long time since I have heard
any to their stuff.  There is a cut on there that is awesome.  Its called
The Pass.  There is a line in there that goes like this:
  
     "All of us get lost in the darkness
      Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
      All of us do time in the gutter
      Dreamers turn to look at the cars."

Isnt that great?!  Anyway, I feel like I'm about ready to explode.  I really
thingk that I am on the verge of living life.  I am ready to take chances
and venture into the deep.  I really feel that I am about to give birth to
a real me, the one that I have kept in prison for so long, the one that I 
have let others keep in prison.  At first it was scary, now I'm excited, 
its like "GET OUT OF MY WAY, I'M LIVING LIFE".  

I am seeing alot about myself, good stuff for a change.  I am a pretty good
guy.  I am sensitive, I care about people, I want the best for others as well
as my self.  I make mistakes but who doesnt.  No one  deserves to die for 
blowing it, die emotionally or physcially.  I really think that if I were to 
meet me that I would really like me.  And you know what, I think other people 
would too.   In fact I think they have, but my own blindness has kept me from
seeing it.  Blindness really, that I had imposed on myself becuase I 
came to some wrong conclusions about me becuase of things that happened to me.

Again, thanks for the ears, the many ears.  

Y'all have fun and celebrate life.  

Later......

.


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Warnings, Spoilers, Etc.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:28:28 GMT
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

I  really    liked   posting  6126  from  Sandro  with  suggested
informative wording for  warnings,  spoilers, etc.  The one about
HOMOPHOBIA was one which  could  easily  have pressed my buttons,
but by the end of  the third line, I got a clear reading that the
posting
    a) had INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH feelings to vent
    b) specifically had content which would be (in this case) homophobic
    c) would include a  message likely  to be
    some combination of colourful (mostly black or hellish red), 
    generalizing (ALL people are____ rather than IMO  some people
    are  ____),  explicit  and  irrational  or  at the very least
    opinionated
    d) was a conscious action by the individual,  i.e.  that s/he
    realized  that  s/he was giving vent to feelings which  could
    hurt and which might be any of the things listed  in  c)  and
    was sensitive enough to give prior warning.
    
That would  give  me  enough information to chose or not to chose
reading further.  The detail of the suggested WARNINGS also would
help to differentiate between  certain  themes and would stop the
diluted effectiveness of one single term to cover such a range of
possibilities.

If I have dwelt overly long  on  this issue, just let me say that
one of the effects left me from  the  abuse I was subjected to is
that I CAN'T STAND SURPRISES!  Of any  kind.   I am always afraid
disaster is going to strike.

"Kristian"

I wasn't sure about the final tag on Sandro's  message, but I can
relate to his experience.  I discovered that what for  years  had
echoed in my head as a strange fantasy unattached to anything and
seemingly  a  pure  fiction  was  in  reality  a  follow-up to an
incident of  childhood sexual abuse.  I guess I finally reached a
state when I  was  ready to see it and accept it for what it was.
The event wasn't pretty, but it was a HUGE relief finally to know
exactly WHAT it was and that it now made sense.



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From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Ouch. (SPOILERS)
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:13:35 GMT

anon-1202@twwells.com writes:
>Spoilers, everybody.


>But I'm sitting here feeling like someone has slapped me.  Two total
>strangers, people I don't know and will probably never meet, have told
>me they hate me.  Not because of who I am or what I've done; but 
>simply because I was born female.

>Pretty fucking familiar.

Are you saying I (as the second of those two strangers, unless I'm
mistaken) am a lot like your abusers?  I'm angry at certain kinds of
women because they seem so like some people who badly hurt me; that, in
turn, makes me seem to you like people who badly hurt you?  Okay, that's
makes sense; I hope we can keep our projecting from hurting each other.
I thought by saying "I hate women who ..." I wouldn't be attacking anyone
else....

>God, I wanted to believe this newsgroup was safe. 

With no facilitator and hundreds or thousands of surivivors... Probably
not.  If my spoiler warning wasn't enough, I'd like to hear a better
suggestion.  As for the first poster -- well, whatever.  We can't always
afford the effort to protect the people around us from our pain.  :-(


>     Every day of my life I fight to be seen as a PERSON, as whole
>and complex and HUMAN as any man out there.  I AM TIRED OF FIGHTING.  I
>am tired of being "ONE OF THEM."  I am one of YOU.  I AM HUMAN.

I understand.   I know....      Hugs if you want them.


	-- sandro (sandro@ELF.com)
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Coming Out
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:30:49 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute

I feel like I'm coming out of the closet. I guess in a way I am. I've
made it through everything alone, but reading your trials made me want to
actively participate in all of this. So I'm even using my name. (Wow)

I'll support when I can, but right now, I'm looking for people who've
dealt with the memories returning. Although I remembered what I thought was
the worst thing a year ago, something recently triggered more memories. I 
feel sometimes like I'm trapped in a haunted house and each ghoul that jumps
out is a memory and each one is worse than the one before. And I can't turn
around. I have to go back into the hell to retrieve the child that I was that
still exists there - and save her. If this makes sense to anyone, could you
let me know?

I also have this logical (i.e. non-emotional) knowledge that I witnessed
something so awful that it destroyed my brain. I feel myself go insane.
Evidently I didn't, but I think about 98% of my brain was reduced to
nothingness and 2% saved it. I also feel certain that I'll have to "see" it
again and I'm afraid of what it will do to me.

Does anyone understand how this feels?

-Anne
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery