HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:47:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.210154.23630@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@calypso.uucp (Larry London) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.140702.24326@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>>>Well, mow it down before it goes to seed, plow it under and reseed the field
>>>with some durable pasture grass.
>
>>Why the personal attack?  
>You have my apology; I didn't mean to be offensive. It was just my usual
>kneejerk reaction to what I perceived to be cavalier and unnecessary use of
>environment-harming toxic chemicals. I have ample reason for my bad attitude: 
>my neighbor has in years past carelessly sprayed 2-4-D and Roundup over
>much of his 3 acre field adjoining my organic market gardens, where I work
>till late in the day. The fumes from those weedkillers, esp. the 2-4-D,
>severely aggravated and was possibly the cause of my present asthmatic
>condition (a real nuisance!). He has since cut way back on his spraying; if
>he hadn't my well water might have been seriously threatened.
>I was hoping to offer effective alternate solutions to your (everybody's)
>weed problems. I know there are ways to get rid of those thistles without
>spraying, I do it every year on my farm. I deal with much worse pests,
>such as Bermuda grass and Johnson grass, false croton, pigweed, crabgrass
>and annual ryegrass. I deal with them effectively and permanently, in a
>relatively short time frame using tillage and cover cropping.  
>I'd be glad to elaborate on solutions to various weed problems that I
>think would be effective if you are interested.
>
>Best of luck.
>
>Lawrence


Thankyou.  In actuallity, we have not been using chemicals for weed
control since we returned to the country life two years ago.  And I can
understand your ire with your neighbor.  As a matter of fact, the farmer
leasing the soybean fields that back on our property was using an
extremely offensive smelling herbicide this past summer and I was
very concerned about the overspray that drifted onto where my horses
were grazing, particularly the paddock where my two-month-old filly 
was with her dam.  Fortunately, no problems have appeared (fingers crossed,
please :-) and he has not sprayed again.  

And best of luck to you too.


Susan

-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Education never helped morals ... the    -- WILL           (all the usual   <
> smarter the guy, the bigger the rascal.  -- ROGERS          disclaimers)    <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bauer@esman.den.mmc.com (Dave Bauer)
Subject: Re: BUTTERNUTS everywhere - now what?
Reply-To: bauer@esman.den.mmc.com
Organization: MMAG Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:02:48 GMT

In article 4302@cunews.carleton.ca, ett@alfred.carleton.ca (E. Todd Taylor) writes:
>My dad's butternut trees finally produced a reasonable batch of butternuts 
>after almost 15 years of waiting.  He's really happy about this, but has
>no idea what to do with the yield.  Does anyone know if there is some 
>practical use for them or have any recipes?
>
>advTHXance...Todd
>-- 
>Carleton University                          E-mail: todd_taylor@carleton.ca 
>Dept. of Physical Plant                      Office:(613) 788-2600 x8557
>Ottawa, ON K1S 5B6                              Fax:(613) 788-4383


Use them like walnuts or pecans.  They go nicely in chocolate chip cookies.
---
Dave Bauer
bauer@esman.den.mmc.com
	"Be an optimist - at least until they start moving animals
	 in pairs to Cape Kennedy."  -- ORBEN'S CURRENT COMEDY
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Community Supported Agriculture
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 02:32:10 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct9.193732.3785@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@calypso.uucp writes:

 > A current hot topic here is community supported agriculture.  Do any of you
 > know where I can find published material on this phenomenon?  I currently have
 > a pamphlet published by the Bio-Dynmanic Farming and Gardening Association
 > entitled "Community Related Agriculture."  I found only two references in
 > Agricola to this concept.  One of them is an article entitled "Vegetables for
 > All" from the September 1987 issue of "Organic Gardening".  I also have a
 > photocopy of an aticle entitled "Share the Land" from the May 15, 1991,
 > "Washington Post"; another photocopy of an article entitled "Fresh Hope for
 > the Small Farmer" (June 1989 from an unknown source).  Steenbock has also
 > purchased the book, "Farms of Tomorrow", by Trauger Groh and S. McFadden from
 > the Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Association.

I have a research program currently queued for for the 1993/94 R&D
budget period entitled, "An Ethnographic Survey of the Community Base
of Rural Production in Western Australia".

Yes, it is a "hot topic" at the moment; for many of us who have been
working in this field for so many years finally the window of interest
in our work is opening. Well, better late than never. Any articles or
references you can send me would be very welcome indeed, and further
discussion on the net with others I would actively encourage.

Please, let us try to network on this also. I am very happy to
establish a mailing list as well, since I am (honorary) consulting
anthropologist to the Land Management Society and the Greenhouse
Village Project here in W.A. We have many people here literally
starving for information and support following such massive social
breakdown and rural depopulation during the past 10-15 years.

Enquiries have also come into us here from South Africa, concerned
with the post-apartheid/post-industrial rehabilitation of the rural
populations from fringe townships. They are still cut off from their
neighbours and are looking to Australia as a clearing house for
information . . .

 > I am also interested in finding published information on the concept of local
 > or indigenous knowledge as applied in "developed" (First and Second World)
 > countries.  There is a prodigious amount of information concerning Third World
 > applications of this idea.

Without appearing cynical, please advise when you locate any. So much
of this work needs to be done yet while such significant allocations
of the R&D budget are simply taken over by industrial interests.

Please help, anyone who can.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:52:06 GMT
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

On the subject of septic tanks, someone recommended pumping it every two
years.  I believe that is somewhat conservative;  a well-designed drain
field in good soil may keep the tank flowing for much longer.

Also, do *not* use harsh chemicals to clean your toilet bowls,
especially chlorine based products, as it kills the bacteria in your
septic tank.  

The absolute worst thing to do is to use those hunks of chemical you
throw in the commode tank that keep the water clean.  They continuously
emit bacteria-killing chemicals that can cause your septic system to
stop working completely.

-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Rural Life?
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 10 Oct 92 15:58:47 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <7945@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>, cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) writes:
> On the subject of septic tanks, someone recommended pumping it every two
> years.  I believe that is somewhat conservative;  a well-designed drain
> field in good soil may keep the tank flowing for much longer.
> 

We only get ours pumped out every seven or eight years, no big deal, not
a big expense, either.  The three guys who came out to do the job were
quite a bit like Larry, Darryl and Darryl..... my kids were FASCINATED!!

Sue


> Also, do *not* use harsh chemicals to clean your toilet bowls,
> especially chlorine based products, as it kills the bacteria in your
> septic tank.  
> 
> The absolute worst thing to do is to use those hunks of chemical you
> throw in the commode tank that keep the water clean.  They continuously
> emit bacteria-killing chemicals that can cause your septic system to
> stop working completely.
> 
> -- 
> |          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
> |              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
> |                    
> |Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:53 EST
 <1992Oct6.202526.28326@samba.oit.unc.edu> <1992Oct7.140702.24326@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Oct7.140702.24326@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
> In article <1992Oct6.202526.28326@samba.oit.unc.edu> london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.193335.12874@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>>>
>>>Per the AG specialist at our local Extension Service, mowing thistles will
>>>_NOT_ kill the root.  The root will simply send up a shorter stalk for the
>>>next batch of flowers and the leaf base (at ground level) will spread.  
>>>To eliminate thistles (which are a BIG problem here in Missouri), you will 
>>>have to kill them with some type of herbicide.
>>
>>Well, mow it down before it goes to seed, plow it under and reseed the field
>>with some durable pasture grass! Or don't you think enough of your animals
>>and neighbors (and those downstream) to keep from befouling your nest and
>>theirs as well?
>>If you think it costs you too much to do that then what are you doing
>>keeping horses in the first place?
>>
> 
> 
> Larry,
> 
> Why the personal attack?  Do you believe you know me or my methods or my
> lifestyle well enough to make such statements?  Are you generally hostile
> or just generally rude?
> 
> 
> Susan

Why not take this exchange over to e-mail?

Sue

> 
> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>> Education never helped morals ... the    -- WILL           (all the usual   <
>> smarter the guy, the bigger the rascal.  -- ROGERS          disclaimers)    <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy)
Subject: Re: Building in a flood plain...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:36:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.183826.21955@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy) writes...
>     I recently purchased some land that is in Indiana's one hundred year 
>flood plane. The county in which the land is located has approved the building
>of a residence on the sight with some restrictions (no basement). The land was
>so cheap for this area ($9000 for 5 acres), that I bought it with little
>investigation into the consequences of building in a flood plain. In starting
>to look into building a home there, I thought that I might tap into the net 
>wisdom on the subject. Any advice/suggestions/horror stories on the subject
>would be apprecitated (I will need a well/sistern and septic system).
> 

You may have trouble getting insurance for a house built in the flood plain or
it may be very expensive.

If the land regularly floods, your well can be contaminated. 

I've seen some houses built in floodplains where they've built the cement
"basement" above ground and have their living quarters on the floor above. That
way all their possessions aren't ruined when it floods. And water apparently
isn't as hard on cement as it would be on wood if the first level were wood
instead of cement. But cleaning all that mud out of my house once a year 
wouldn't be worth it to me.


Barbara Roy, University of Iowa, Weeg Computing Center, Iowa City, IA.  52242
Internet:   broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu or Barbara-Roy@uiowa.edu
Bitnet:     broyva@uiamvs.bitnet  
Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: wild crap (was Re: the end of civilization)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:38:02 GMT

In article <ldtrtoINNbjg@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu>, langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston) writes:
>
>IMHO we've had enough wild crap here lately, including not just
>weedeaters and greenhouses, but also herbicides and life-styles -- 
>and to think that misc.rural was once a much quieter place...

Agreed.  Is it time for talk.rural?  Or misc.rural.practical?

0.5 :-)

Don't get me wrong...I like some of this wild crap, I just prefer that
misc.rural remain the low-volume, polite place to discuss real, practical
rural issues.  Perhaps alt.co-evolution is a better home for the more
speculative, religious matters.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:53:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvra.25260037
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA


> ...
> Our major problem is with briars (i.e. - Blackberry Brambles).  
> These do not seem to respond to mowing at all, ...

They will, but you have to be extremely agressive.  Mow the briars
more often than you mow your lawn.  If you can stop any green growth
for about a year, you usually win.  The roots are strong though, and if
you let them replenish themselves, you will lengthen the battle
significantly.

Penning goats in among the briars will work, but it works by the goats
doing the mowing--everytime a new green leaf is produced, the goats eat
it.  My neighbors actually used a combination of a number of grazong
animals to overcome a briar patch.

> I am open to the use of chemicals, but will take an extremely 
> judicious approach

My other neighbor has had reasonable success with chemicals.  He uses
something like "Bainbridge" or "Crossbow."  His approach is to wait
until the first leaves *start* turning yellow and then he makes on
application of herbicide.  At that point in the life cycle of the
plant, the plant is pulling chemicals from the leaves to store in the
roots.  The poison is sucked down from the leaves and kills the root.

I might also suggest posting to rec.gardens if you haven't already.

---

Ben
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere)
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Keywords: thistles, briars, blackberries, weeds, POISON OAK
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:03:55 GMT

In article <11607@risky.Convergent.COM> bkorb@convergent.com writes:
>Thistles, briars and blackberries are all scratchy.
>Weeds are a hassle.  All of these can in some way be
>dealt with without poisons, if you have patience.
>Just what do you do with POISON OAK, however?
>That stuff *really* doesn't want to die, and I can't
>touch the stuff!!!
 
   I got good results using Roundup to kill poison oak around my house
in Boulder Creek.  Since it is a spray, you don't have to touch the
plants.  I cleared several acres of poison oak last summer, and it
hasn't come back.  Spray every plant in an area, wait a few weeks, and
then go back and spray again the ones that survive the first round.


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
                                                                     
  Steven Vere                                       vere@netcom.com  
  Boulder Creek, California                70571.521@compuserve.com  
     __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __    __  
 |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  |__|  | 
_____________________________________________________________________
From: ag301@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tricia Schmidt)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: A thank you, and an update on rural life :)
Date: 15 Oct 1992 02:53:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Wow!  I'm overwhelmed by all the helpful responses to my post
"rural life?".  And I'm a little tickled by the sarcastic
response by one person (it's a good thing I can see your 
expression while you type! :).

I met some people at an authentic pig roast last weekend who
taught me a lot about compost piles.  The most fascinating part
is that they make dirt!  They even showed me a working compost
pile - and it was dirt!  Jim and I are going to clean out the
barn, gather all the leaves, and start one of our own.

This week the farmers started harvesting all (60 acres) the corn
around the house.  It's neat to watch - amazing how much corn
is out there!  I never imagined!  Two rows fills up the combine.

I really have enjoyed watching the corn.  I saw them plant it this
spring, and it sprouted to about 6".  Then I went away for about
a month.  When I came back it was taller than me!!  (I've been
trying all my life to get taller than me!)  A few weeks later,
I woke up one morning sneezing, and asking what smelled funny.  
The corn had pollinated.  It continued to pollinate for three
days.  Our bedroom window faces out on one of the fields...so
it was hard on my allergies.  But the smell was very unique
and powerful.  It doesn't smell quite like corn - but seems
to have a relation to it.  After that the ears grew.  Then
a few weeks ago it started turning brown.  Finally, this week,
the farmers decided it was time to harvest.  They brought out
all kinds of equipment.  This whole cycle makes me want to see
it all again next year.  I had never thought about corn before.

And, of course, there's nothing like the surprise of waking up
at 7 AM with a combine driving by the bedroom window.  Since
we're so far away from neighbors we never thought about curtains.
Quite an experience!

I like the idea of putting yougurt in the septic tank.  Sounds
very organic.

Apparently I am going to have to learn to do some things for
myself.  This may sound strange to some of you, but having lived
in the city all my life I never even had to think about a water
line or what to do with sewage.  That's just how city life is.
Even when something goes wrong you don't ask "what went wrong" 
but "When's someone going to fix it?".  I'll take the well 
water to be tested in the spring after the planting, and 
tomorrow I'll ask the farmers what they put on their crops.

They may be doing organic farming because today when I went to
rescue one for the dog he showed me some rye seeds that they
will now be planting.  He picked some up, ate a few, and offered
me a few.  I don't think he'd be eating them if they had chemicals
on them..

Well, time to get some sleep - because I have this odd feeling 
that they'll be driving combines around here again tomorrow ;)

Tricia

Thanks again to everyone!
From: ddavidso@metz.une.edu.au (Dean Davidson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Keywords: thistles, briars, blackberries, weeds
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:06:15 GMT
Organization: University of New England, Armidale, Australia

In article <1992Oct7.154848.11595@news.duc.auburn.edu> bailebn@mail.auburn.edu writes:
>Thistles are only a minor problem in our pasture, but mowing and other
>"mechanical" means have gotten them under control pretty nicely.  
>Our major problem is with briars (i.e. - Blackberry Brambles).  
>These do not seem to respond to mowing at all, and I am just about
>ready to resort to spot-spraying RoundUp.  However, I thought 
>that I would get a little feedback from "misc.rural" before I 
>took that step.  

>I am open to the use of chemicals, but will take an extremely 
>judicious approach, if I do go that route.  I would prefer to use
>some sort of non-chemical means.  Any Ideas?

For blackberries, as my old farmer mate Noel says " Burn, slash and spray"

Certainly, for the Australian varieties, this seems to be the only thing
that works.

Burning and slashing (with a brush hook) get rid of the bush, but the roots
remain.  Even after severe burning, suckers come up after a week or
two.

Unfortunately the only way to get rid of the suckers sees to be with
Roundup.  Note, the bush MUST be destroyed first.  Although Roundup
spayed liberally on a living bush will eventually kill it, the amounts
required will probably kill everything else first.  The suckers coming
from the old roots are an easy target, and don't require much Roundup

Some schools of though have advocated goats tied near the bush.  I have
found that these eat everything else except the suckers.  These are only
eaten just before the goats starve!.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Dean

-- 
Dean Davidson                                 ddavidso@metz.une.oz.au
Dept Psychology                               Phone 61 67 73 2585
University of New England                     Fax   61 67 72 9816
Armidale NSW 2351 Australia                   VK2 ZID
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 15 Oct 1992 03:13:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


There has been a great deal of intensive fish farming going on
in parts of Asia for at least centuries so they have developed
a number of efficient systems.  Generally the carp species are
best suited since they can thrive on a variety of feeds many of
which can be produced in a farm situation as a byproduct.
The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising
in a small high production pond although certain requisites in-
clude maintaining a fairly warm pond temp. (65 to 85 deg F),
some aeration of the water, and certain companion plants.
Experiments were done for several years at the New Alchemy
Institute in Massachusetts, installing the ponds inside a
greenhouse for warmth through the seasons and using plexiglass
tanks to let sunlight in from the sides although this is not
necessary.  The earthworms would certainly be a feed for the
fish but tilapia surprisingly tend to do better if the diet is
lower in protein, so other feeds could be added.  Tilapia are
a bit like pigs;  they'll eat almost anything so kitchen scraps
or cuttings from a veg garden are also useful.
At the risk of getting a bit too graphic: tilapia can thrive on
manure alone as a feed, although I cannot remember which manure
is most suitable for this, I think pig manure is used in 
Malaysia and works quite well.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: pab@lucid.com (Peter Benson)
Subject: Re: More weed woes
Reply-To: pab@lucid.com
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Boulder, Utah office
	<1992Oct8.083956.205@cpvax.cpses.tu.com>
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:34:50

I've heard of using goats to help get rid of poison ivy.  There is still the
problem of how to handle them (and what to do with their milk) after
they've been in PI.
Newsgroups: misc.rural