From: bechtler@asdg.dec.com (Laurie Bechtler)
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 10 APR 92 12:11:04    


In article <1992Apr9.224042.23794@cs.tulane.edu>, makrisna@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (Krishna Achuta Rao) writes...
>       Just a clarification here.. under immigration laws the employer has
>       to prove that there was no American citizen with similar qualifications
>       that applied for the job that went to a foreigner. 
>       At the time of offering the job the company has to get the state labor
>       department to certify that the salary being offered is in line with the
>       usual rate and that ensures the kind of undercutting Gerry is wrting 
>       about.
> 
>Krishna.

That's not too difficult to get around.  Just decide who you want to hire
ahead of time, and write an ad something like

       "EE with MS and 3 years experience running MBE machine to grow 
        GaAs/styrofoam superlattices.  Must be fluent in Arabic, Mandarin
        and medieval Latin.  Coursework must include C++, RISC architec-
        ture, and advanced knot theory."  

Of course only one person in the universe could fit the description --
the person you wrote it for.  Check out some of the ads in the back of
Spectrum magazine sometime (this is a journal for EEs); a few don't seem
much different from this.


That said, I don't believe that salary undercutting happens a lot in my
industry, semiconductors.  Based strictly on anecdotal evidence -- people
I know -- the good foreign students get very good job offers and salaries.
The others, whose abilities are not distinguishable from the pool of
Americans available, have a very difficult time getting jobs in periods
of slow hiring, like now.  This may not be true in other industries that
do not have such high salaries and high interest in their positions.  
Big companies have formulas for starting salaries that seem to be followed
pretty strictly.  The foreigners may not get hired - but if they do, 
their salaries will be the same as the Americans (of same education, ex-
perience, etc.).  


Certainly the most talented people of any background can contribute a lot
to an employer and/or field.  Those people usually do get good jobs. 

But if you have a large pool of similarly talented people, half American
and half foreign, and not enough jobs to go around, what then?  I think
this is at the root of what bothers a lot of Americans.  There is the 
feeling that just because someone chose to come to America to go to
graduate school, that does not entitle them to move here permanently.  Do 
they owe any allegiance to their home countries, at least for a few years?
Does our own country owe any allegiance to our own citizens?  It 
is analogous to the arguments about free trade -- should the US impose 
barriers like other countries do, so we can protect our own industries,
or are trade barriers simply wrong -- let the market decide who survives?

I haven't completely sorted out my own thinking on these issues.  But I 
can see some valid points on both sides.

One statement that I have seen in several replies to this survey, however,
seems to be widely shared.  Foreigners MUST take as many English classes
as necessary to be easily understood, and this includes working on their
accents and pronounciation, not just their grammar.  They should not resent
this and must accept it as the cost for going to school or being employed
here.  Miscommunication is a BIG hindrance to being accepted.