From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Dead-Flames Digest #81 (was: Tipper & free speech)
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:32:46 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

In article <1992Jul24.205648.5605@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> sjeck@isi.com writes:
>mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
>|To extend the discussion, I feel that some uses of free speech can be labeled
>|abuse of free speech; the question is -- how should society or an individual
>|react? 
>
>Small wonder you agree with Jordan.  If you can not answer that question,
>you don't understand the issue.  You have not extended the discussion
>what so ever.  At least you phrase it better:  "I feel."
>
>If you don't agree with someone, either shut up or say so.  
>What other options do you have?  Imprison them?
>
>Steve-TOO
>
>"their motto was 'Don't Tread On Me!"
Steve

your reply was short and sweet, and I agree with the options, generally. But
it's not so simple (nor am I as simple as you implied).

The question was rhetorical.  I was identifying what I thought was the key
issue, once it is granted that free speech must not be abridged.  Recognizing
no limits to free speech does not mean that it is wrong to find certain uses
of it offensive or inappropriate.  What it means is that you can not muzzle it.
If you can't stop it, and an instance of what you consider an "excess" has 
occured, what do you do then? (another rhetorical question, not a plea for 
enlightenment)  Whether I have an answer for myself is not important. We are
discussing it because all do not seem to agree, and we can learn something
by hearing, refuting, supporting other viewpoints. The problem is that some
(the NEA, for example) do have options other than "shut up, speak out, or
imprison" and they have elected representatives in our government that use
funding to repress "objectionable" expression.  This is why the discussion 
is important in r.a.gd.  Have the Dead try to play in his home state, and
see how fast Jesse Helms uses it as a cheap anti-drug election issue, with-
out regard to the truth.

I guess I didn't explain well enough what I meant by "abuse". I see
abuse as a term describing the use of free speech to distort or disinform, or
to inflict hurt intentionally. Now, I am not setting this up as a bullet-proof
definition; just explaing my usage.  Also, unlike the overtones that goverment
places on its uses of the term "abuse", I am not advocating a reaction (i.e.,
jail abusers, or restrict their access or speech).  I am suggesting that, with
the exception of speech which causes harm that can be handled in the courts,
that the best remedy is in using free speech to counter an "abuse".  This
is difficult once the cat is out of the bag (such as Willie Horton or the
"trash deadheads" stuff). This a price we pay for the right to speak out our-
selves. I don't have an answer to this lack of balance. 

I don't agree with Jordan.  I just don't "infer" that he is a fascist pig,
the way others have, from what he has written.  (Let's not get into a quote
war here either.)  I used "infer" because I am interpreting the tone of Jordan's
posts, and the responses in a particular way.  I think he phrased several 
statements too loosely (priveledge vs right), and that some replies took this
too literally.  I agree that loose talk needs clarification, but not castig-
ation.

I think you summarized pretty simply what I was trying to say: shut up or
speak out are the major alternatives. The exception is when legal recourse
is justified.  Maybe "extending the discussion" was not accurate either.
Maybe I should have stated it in a coarser manner for this audience.  I was
trying to boil the argument down to "bottom line: whatta ya do?"  If this
wasn't an issue, we wouldn't have known who Tipper Gore was until last week.
The fact that it is a no-brainer for you, Steve, is a good thing.  But it 
apparently isn't so simple for lots of Americans who voted in the last 
administration.

Matt
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine