HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:11:00 CST
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Reply to Re: is the end of "the

About the IBM multimedia Ulysses (not truly hypermedia, btw, since it didn't
employ linking in the ways hypermedia does: hypermedia implies linkage;
multimedia simply implies use of things other than text and says nothing about
the relationships among them).  Nick and Russ are absolutely right in saying
that it offers the student nothing in the way of increased freedom or ease of
access and movement.  But that's not a function of the technology: it's a
function of IBM's attitude toward the technology.  I spent a long, very long
several months trying to explain to an IBM rep that my colleagues and I aren't
interested in more expensive blackboards.  He never did get it.

John Slatin
UT Austin
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From: RHODA%MUNIN@NORWICH.BITNET (Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: For Judy Boss (sorry to clog MBU)
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:30:00 GMT
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Judy, hello again, and thanks for your GREAT suggestions.  I can't send
mail to you (I can't get our Internet lock open) unless you have a Bitnet
address, but I seem to be able to *receive* OK.  YES YES, please
send me your list of ASCII texts!  How did you get them? Proj.
Gutenbery?  ANd what can I give you in return?????

Thanks again,
Rhoda
Rhoda Carroll*Vermont College of Norwich University*Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:43:59 -1000
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Foreign languages?

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992, Don Langham wrote:

> Sorry if this seems off the wall, but I need to know something.  Do
> any of my fellow MBUers know anything about how foreign language
> departments are incorporating computers into their instructional
> programs?

Please contact Steve Singer at Kapiolani CC:  singer@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu

He's our communications lab coordinator -- computers play a key role
in foreign language classes scheduled in the lab.

Carol Beresiwsky teaches French and Spanish, and she's done a lot with
HyperCard.  I don't know if she has an e-mail account.  You can reach her
via snail mail:

     Prof. Carol Beresiwsky
     Univ. of Hawaii-Kapiolani Community College
     4303 Diamond Head Road
     Honolulu, HI 96816
     FAX 808-734-9151

Jim Shimabukuro
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:41:18 -0500
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to open admission concerns

"What I'm apprehensive about is the kind of student who's academic
interests have produced say an 8 or 10 on something like the ACT and
whose hs transcript shows pure mediocrity. Tell me how these students
suddenly become concerned, interested students.  My experience does
not support any hope for "magic" in the classroom."

--Nancy Ellis
nse2@ra.mstate.edu

Nancy's point reminds me of one of the dangers of open admissions, open
admissions for the sake of admissions.  I taught at a state college in Vermont t
that has--and should have--open admissions.  However, sometimes the admissions
office was overzealous in accepting students who weren't ready for college
and who the college wasn't prepared to help make ready.  That's dishonest.
If a college agrees to take a student who is not prepared for its minimum
academic requirements, it has an obligation to provide programs and services
that will help that student succeed.  I had a student who one, should have
been in a basic writing course, and two should have been in an entire basic
program for her first year.  I worked with her once a week, she also met with
a writing lab tutor.  Finally I met with her advisor.  He felt at a loss.
    Her scores were the lowest he'd seen on the sats, her verbal score was
about 300.  My class was the only class she felt she would be able to pass.  In
her file there was a letter of recommendation from her guidance counselor
that said while she wanted to go to college, he had serious reservations about
her ability to do the work.  With this as a recommendation and the the scores
she was accepted.  Fair enough, but the school had no support for her.  There
was only a part time academic counselor for students in trouble, no program
or system in place to work with her consistently.  She was frustrated, stymied,
or
and in a way academically abused by the college.  The need to keep enrollments
up got ahead of the need of the student.
     Open admissions require an institutions commitment to every student it
accepts.  Otherwise it's duping students out of their (or their parent's) money,
 money that is precious to many of the familys, and also duping them out of
their dreams, especially if the student is the first one in the family to go
to college--she is under a lot of pressure to succeed.  Sometimes a policy
couched in fairness and egalitarian ideal becomes a cruel and cynical instru-
ment.
nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
From: 00mdfisher@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: enough of election
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:22:00 GMT
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PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:48:43 CST
From:         "Patty Ericsson" <PATTY@SDNET.BITNET>
Subject:      stretch and jumbo comp classes

A few weeks ago David Schwalm and a few others mentioned "stretch"
and "jumbo" versions of composition classes that were taught at their
universities.  I communicated with David, but would like to gather more
information on these courses.  Could any of you who offer modified
sections of comp. courses instead of basic writing or in addition to
basic writing please tell me about them.
Patty Ericsson
From: SULKES@UCBEH.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: computers and tech writing
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:02:03 GMT
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IUm interested in learning about software written
to teach tech writing.  Does anyone know of any?
I am also searching for a list server that
combines these interests (tech writing and
computers) and would appreciate
any information you could post.

Regards, Stan Sulkes, Raymond Walters College,
Cincinnati, Ohio.
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:53:00 EST
From:         00mdfisher@BSUVAX1.BITNET

Please eithre sign me off, or tell me how to do it.
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:59:00 PST
From:         Lisa Gerrard <IDR2LXG@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      More foreign languages

A couple of general sources I forgot to mention: the Calico Journal, which
is devoted to computer-assisted instruction, and the Modern Language
Journal, which occasionally has information on technological issues.

Lisa Gerrard
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:47:31 -0700
From:         MACEYTAY@ARIZVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Multimedia and hypermedia

Re teacher responses to student multi/hyper

It's unfortunate that situations such as that recounted by Nancy Kaplan
continue to exist.  As an ESL teacher, I have long promoted student use
of the computer as a tool, especially in the production of "papers" and
other presentations, and as a sometime teacher of business writing and
technical writing, I have urged them to go beyond the slide projector and
OHP to use desktop video in their presentations.  Last year, one of my
ESL students defended his thesis via a DTV production (very successfully)
and wwed his professors, who had never seen a DTV presentation.  This
really amazed me, for his field is solar/nuclear engineering, one of the
high-tech-est disciplines we have.  I can understand why English teachers
lag behind and want words on paper (understand, not approve) and why many
are unaware of hyper/multi, but it seems really strange to me that the
people who do have access to hardware and software that will do interesting
things are so unaware of what they could be doing with it.

Macey Taylor  maceytay@ccit.arizona.edu
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:34:11 CST
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reply to Re: Non-traditional students

Mixed messages:
A student in Remedial English a couple of years ago told the class that the
biggest problem that she had with the word "remedial" is that it didn't so much
try to describe the courses she was taking but was a label pinned on her--a
college student who shouldn't be.

Last week my dean, asked about what effect he expected reducing English 90
from a 5-hour course to a 3-hour course would have on retention said we are not
in the business of educating these students.

About three years ago the state legislature reduced the funding for "remedial"
courses from almost as much as universities received for graduate courses to
less than what universities receive for any other courses.  Universities must
admit and teach the students who need these courses but now lose money on these
courses.

Jim McDonald
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:09:53 MST
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in sight?

From: David E. Schwalm
And let's discuss whether totally reader based prose is a totally desirable
outcome, notwithstanding what we think about persuasion. In my view,
"experience" is the ultimate reader based prose, and I would not like to have
all of my learning dependent on experience. I want writers to structure
experience for me according to one or more coherent paradigms. Would hypertext
"nonstructures" be informed by some concenptual paradigm or would they wind up
as random organizations of misc bits structured according to possibly
conflicting paradigms (sort of like the typical undergraduate schedule of
classes any give term)?

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:19:44 EST
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      WC/Computer Labs

Does anybody have a compilation of the travel logs that Jim Crosswhite
posted on MBU? Jim?  They would be quite useful for Dave Healy.





>Sender: wCenter List <WCENTER%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
>From: Dave Healy <dhealy%GCMAIL.GEN.UMN.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
>Subject:      WC/Computer Labs
>To: Multiple recipients of list WCENTER <@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu:WCENTER@TTUVM1>
>
>A colleague of mine may have the opportunity soon to set up her own computer
>writing lab.  She's wondering what the ideal room would look like.  Where would
>computer stations be situated? What would they look like?  What mix of
>technology would be ideal--computers, printers, video projection, etc.  In
 other
>words, if you could design your own room from the ground up, what would it look
>like?  Does anyone have diagrams, floor plans, photographs, etc. to share?  Do
>you know of articles that have addressed the physical layout of a room? Or does
>anyone have suggestions on sites to visit?  Remember, money is no object.  On
>the other hand, the goal is not to spend as much money as possible, but rather
>to design the ideal room for a writing center making maximum use of available
>technology.
>
>Dave Healy
>University of Minnesota
>General College
>240 Appleby Hall
>Minneapolis, MN  55455
>612-625-1541
>612-626-7848 (Fax)
>dhealy@gcmail.gen.umn.edu
>

P.S., Dave, Send your colleague on over for a visit to MTU if she has time.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:27:00 CDT
From:         Mary OSullivan <MFOSULLI@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Techprep

>From:    IN%"MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU"   "Megabyte University
 (Computers & Writing)"
>To:      Multiple recipients of list MBU-L <MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET>
>Subject: Techprep
>
>Received: from 129.130.12.1 by vms3.macc.wisc.edu; Wed, 11 Nov 92 09:14 CDT
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>Message-Id: <22111109140404@vms3.macc.wisc.edu>
>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:11:56 -0600
>From: bwresch%UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
>Reply-To: "Megabyte University (Computers & Writing)"
>          <MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
>Sender: "Megabyte University (Computers & Writing)"
>        <MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
>Subject: Techprep
>To: Multiple recipients of list MBU-L <MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET>
>
>Hate to change the subject (or subjects), but anyone out there working on
>techprep initiatives?  Wisconsin is far enough down the road to see some real
>conflicts between tech schools and universities, and to have encountered some
>real confusion on the part of teachers.  Not that I am against techprep, I see
>some real possibilities.  But we are getting badly hung up on the day to day
>aspects of this effort.
>
>Any experience out there?
>
>Bill Wresch
You bet I have experience with Tech Prep!  And, I find that once again the
people at the top in state administrative positions--both in DPI and VTAE have
been making decisions without talking to faculty and without carefully thinking
about student needs.

At WWTC, a Tech Prep agreement was signed giving a local high school the option
of offering a dual-credit class, WITHOUT ANYONE TALKING TO FACULTY at either
school.  I, and some of my colleagues, have just put in an incredible amount of
time fixing this mess.  After talking with the high school faculty and
explaining to them that in this state (WI) in the VTAE system, it is impossible
for the Communication Skills Department to offer more than the basic writing
class, and that, therefore, if a high school student took that class in high
school for dual credit, that they would never again have an English class, the
high school faculty agreed with the tech college faculty that this was not a
good idea.

I won't take up more space on MBU to rant about this, but feel free to call me
at WWTC, Bill, if you want more info (608) 785-9197.  Or email me directly at
mfosulli.macc.wisc.edu.

PS--we recently installed Daedalus in our computer-supported classroom, and are
purchasing Writer's Helper to add to it next year.  It took us awhile to get it
all together in the budget department after your visit a year ago, but
eventually....

Mary O'Sullivan
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:11:00 CST
From:         ROSE NORMAN <UAHRXN01@ASNUAH.ASN.NET>
Subject:      Books on Teaching Writing

I'm in the process of picking textbooks for a new graduate course I"ll
be teaching spring term (starts in March) on Writing Pedagogy.  Most of
the students will be from our Graduate Certificate in Technical Communication,
but I expect to draw some of our regular M.A. candidates, so I'm going to
allow them to choose one of three research tracks: 1) Technical Writing,
2) Business Writing, 3) Other Specialties (Composition, Remedial, and
Computers are specialties they can choose from or combine).

Have any mbu-ers taught pedagogy courses of this kind? Would you be willing
to share textbook and syllabus suggestions?  I'm going to post the booklistt
I've so far compiled as a separate posting for those interested in the topic.

Rose
Rose Norman, Associate Professor of English
University of Alabama in Huntsville
Huntsville, AL 35899
205/895-6320
RNORMAN@UAHVAX1 bitnet or RNORMAN@ASNUAH.ASN.NET
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:21:50 -0500
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Multimedia and hypermedia

Peg Syverson--
     Your son's got all that neat stuff to work with at home?  Adopt me,
please.
nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 08:08:40 EST
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From:         IDANA HAMILTON <SWHAMII@VCCSCENT.BITNET>
Subject:      ncte 93 & cccc 94?

*** Reply to note of 11/06/92 17:21
GOSH, I'M SORRY FOR ANY CONFUSION I'VE CAUSED. WHEN I RESPONDED TO ERIC I
SAID CCCC NASHVILLE, MARCH 16 -19 1993--I MEANT 1994. SANDIEGO IS 93. I TOO
WAS BUDGETING AND WRITING PROPOSALS; I CALLED CCCC OFFICE AND ASKED. THAT'S
WHERE I GOT THE NASHVILLE '94 DATE, EVEN IF I REPORTED IT INCORRECTLY.

SORRY, SORRY! BACK TO LURKING.

IDANA HAMILTON, CAI COORDINATOR      703 964-7522 (VOICE)
SOUTHWEST VIRGINIA COMMUNITY COLLEGESWHAMII@VCCSCENT.BITNET
RICHLANDS, VA 24641
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:44:06 EST
From:         Ann Green <USERTFSH@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      Foreign Languages?

Don, at Jackson CC our Spanish instructor is using a hypertext document for
vocabulary and Interchange for people to have real-time in-class conver-
sations in Spanish.  She can comment on people's use of the language
immediately and she saves the transcript to review how people are doing
with the language.  Ann Green
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:04:07 CST
From:         mcmorg@VAX1.BEMIDJI.MSUS.EDU
Subject:      RE: Info for an argument

I join with Roni: I too could use a rough count of writing labs that use
computers to bolter my argument.  We just lost 30 Macs as the university
decided they would be "better used" in a public lab than in a classroom.

Mike Morgan
Bemidji State
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:45:00 PST
From:         Lisa Gerrard <IDR2LXG@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Foreign languages

Don, thanks for letting me know that my message didn't get through.
I'm reposting this on MBU in case anyone else is interested.

I've been working with UCLA's Spanish and Portuguese Dept. for years,and
though we've instituted process-based writing pedagogy, in the computer
lab we use principally word processing and an invention program that
I developed called *La preescritura*.

Take a look at the Software Review section in the journal *Hispania*. Most
FL software is of the grammar drill and practice variety, though
increasingly there are interactive videodisks for conversation practice.
Also, every few years ACTFL (American Council on Teaching in Foreign
Languages) has a technology fair at their annual meeting in November
(almost always the same weekend as NCTE). If you know anyone who went
to ACTFL in 1991, you might want to take a look at their program; I
didn't go last year. The tech fair before that was in 1988.

Bibliography

Margaret Healy Beauvois. Computer-Assisted Classroom Discussion
in the Foreign Language Classroom: Conversation in Slow Motion.
Foreign Language Annals 25. 1992.

Carol Chapell. The Discourse of Computer-Assisted Language
Learning: Toward a Context for Descriptive Research. TESOL
Quarterly 24. Summer 1990.

Dorothy Chun and Klaus Brandl. Beyond Form-Based Drill and
Practice: Meaning-Enhancing CALL on the Macintosh. Foreign
Language Annals 25. 1992.

Patricia W. Cummins. CAI and the French Teacher. The French
Review 62. Feb. 1989.

Nina Garrett. Applying Instructional Technologies. Foreign
Language Annals 23. 1990.

Nina Garrett et al. Computers in Foreign Language Teaching and
Research: A "New Humanism." In Computing Across the Curriculum:
Academic Perspectives. Ed. William H. Graves. EDUCOM, 1989.

George Greenia. Computers and Teaching Composition in a Foreign
Language. Foreign Language Annals 25. 1992

T. Edward Harvey. Second-Language Composition Instruction,
Computers and First-Language Pedagogy: A Descriptive Survey.
Foreign Language Annals 20. April 1987.

Orlando Kelm. the Use of Synchronous Computer Networks in Second
Language Instruction: A Preliminary Report. Foreign Language
Annals 25. 1992

Ken R. Lunde. Using Electronic Mail as a Medium for Foreign
Language Study and Instruction. CALICO Journal 7. March 1990.

Lydie Meunier-Cinko. Interactive French Language Curricula of the
Future: A Study of Computer and Video Potential. French Review
66. Oct. 1992.

Karen Smith. Collaborative and Interactive Writing for Increasing
Communication Skills. Hispania 73. March 1990.
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:59:29 EST
From:         "(michael marx)" <mmarx@SKIDMORE.EDU>
Subject:      Restructuring Writing Programs
              "bwresch%UWSPMAIL.UWSP.EDU@bitnic.educom.edu" at Nov 4,
              92 12:15 pm

Although this question is not specifically related to computers and
writing, I was hoping I might be able to call upon the good hearted
members of MBU for some assistance.

Skidmore College is currently in the process of restructuring its
expository writing requirement.  We are attempting to move away from
the model of sections of required freshperson writing seminars and
toward a model that more actively embraces writing across the
curriculum by integrating writing (and writing instruction) into the
college's first semester, required, interdisciplinary course in the
Liberal studies sequence called, "THe Human Experience."

My questions are:  Do any of your schools follow such a model of
having a required first year writing experience integrated into
another required "core" course?  If so, does your English or
Composition Department continue to offer elective writing seminars at
the 100 level?

If you know of or teach in such a program, I would appreciate hearing
from you.  You can contact me at mmarx@skidmore.edu  or
Michael Steven Marx, English Department, Skidmore College, Saratoga
Springs, NY 12866, 518-584-5000, ext. 2324.  I would be happy to share
our plans with any interested folk.

Thanks for all of your assistance!
Michael Marx
-------------------
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:51:00 CST
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      irc

Don't know about everybody else, but some of us didn't get any mbu
mail yesterday. And two of the notes we didn't get were invitations
to get together on irc and talk. And I just realized that I probably
didn't say which day I meant in my invitation.

-so-

If that notes arrives in your mailboxes today, pitch it.

Eric Crump
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