From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Othman's argument
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:48:53 GMT

Mr Khoo Siau Cheng (iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov14.063622.24302@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
: >Me Mann (mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
: >: 
: >: Have it ever come across to you that there are SBC publicity officers that 
: >: are  Malay and also fluent only say in English and Malay? You seem to 
: >
: >It did come across. But I was taling about Malay sensitivities. 
: 
: NO, you were not talking about Malay sensitivties; you were talking
: about laws and government practices that discriminate against Malay.
: Appended at the end of this mail is a copy of what you have written
: originally. Othman, please read carefully what you have written, and
: stand by your points.

Why are you so scared to quote my words side by side. You even delete some
phrases. Let me quote what I had written side by side.
	I also said:
 >: I may be wrong in the exact tittle of the Job so I hope someone can
 >: clarify. 


: 
: Out of curiosity, I called up SBC to enquire about this position. The
: lady at the other end told me that they are looking for someone who
: can head the group that is in charge of the publicity and promotion of
: both Chinese and English programs. Therefore, knowing Malays is not a
: pre-requisite. I hope this clarify everyone's doubt. 

I also check the directory, looking for jobs relevant to Publicity,

Only directors are listed:

director(public relations),

For those who do not know the SBC set up, please note that English and Mandarin
programs are the biggest in the department. My rough estimate is about 80% of
the local programs. The Malay programs in contrast are under financed.
	If there is an officer for the English and Mandarin programs, is it
economical to have another for Malay and another for Tamil? Use your common
sense. Unless it is justifiable to have a few officers for publicity.
	You've nicely telephoned SBC but you still have not answered a lot
of questions. I do not bother to telephone because it does not concern me.
I'll just be wasting my time and SBC time. What matters is how I feel on hearingthose advertisement.

: 
: > If you read carefully what I said in earlier paragraphs, some of them
: > may be wrong, but which ones?
: 
: Yes, you indeed said so in his mail. Again, it is appended at the end
: of this mail. However, I think this is a very coward act. You have no

Is it a cowardly act to present your doubts to usenet group? Knowing that
some may be proven wrong.

: intention of finding and telling the truth. Rather, you make wild

If I were to keep quiet, I can find the TRUTH?
: statements, and expect others to find out the truth, or argue with you
: based on these statements.

Is that the whole truth? Did I say it is the TRUTH? Is it my style to not
BOLDLY state the conclusion of a fact. I WILL gladly call the Singapore 
Government Departments a liar etc. if the facts are clear, just as I had
accused the journalists/editors of ST.

: 
: It seems that you are not honestly looking for truth, since you don't
: even bother find out what others have said is true or not, and worse
: still, you simply take them as facts and use them in discussion. 

Did I say they are facts as you had concluded? I only say the facts as I had
observed. The advertisement never mentioned the job area. I had to fill 
doubts to what I had observed. If I were a reported, I'll just repeat what
the advertisement had said.
	By phoning SBC, will not help correct the advertisement because they
will be on the defensive. After all they can always retract/correct the
advertisement any time. If the Malays in Singapore really want the job of
publicity officer, then they can complain.

: 
: Neither are you a conscientious educator nor a helpful friend, since
: you don't even bother to teach your friends (those who told your their
: experiences) to find out the truth before making their claims. 
	One of the things that I try to teach is to commit even if you do not
have the whole truth. This is my philosophy which you may not agree but is based
on my experience. The phenomeno which I got from colleages is termed as
ANALYSIS PARALYSIS. Lee Iacocca also wrote something along similar lines.
	If you were to get all facts before you take any action, then you'll
lose a lot of opportunities.
	Of course there are precautions to be taken such as taking into account
the probability of correctness of our estimation.
	You have taken the negative approach in getting the WHOLE truth, when
you GLADLY accept half truths form the Chinese Malaysians. You are therefore
pronounced as a HYPOCRITE.
: 
: In your original mail, you made some speculation about the truth of
: the claims (also appended at the end). I am amazed that you resorted
: to speculation when truth can sometimes be easily discovered
: by simply making a telephone call. Did you inform our Singaporean
: Malays about your speculation? I hope that most Singaporeans can
: determine to scrutinize your accusations and claims, but, wah-lau,
: with you in NTU ......
: 
: One interesting point: you mentioned that you suspected some of
: the claims are wrong, just like the claims of discrimination by the
: chinese. (I assume that you mean Malaysian Chinese.) You then
: estimated that 70% of the claims are true. I wonder if this implies
: that the claims by the Malaysian Chinese are also 70% true. Of course,
: you are always ready to say that the similarity does not apply to your
: private estimation ;-)
We are talking about the so called facts which each side presents. Not their
accusations. If they did present any fact.

Fact like, I do not see any chinese among us who have got scholarship, cannot
be doubted but we cannot conclude that they are discriminated based on their
RACE/colour.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean