From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:58:45 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <1992Nov18.175600.1908@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

# In article <1992Nov18.003922.5269@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# > In article <1992Nov17.111759.1876@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
 
# > # In article <1992Nov17.033010.29146@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# > # > In article <1992Nov16.202637.1867@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

# > # > # In article <1992Nov16.160701.16000@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:

# > # > # > In article <BxsnnI.A1I@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:

# > # > # >>In article <1992Nov14.200904.1705@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

# > # > # >>>In article <1992Nov10.015508.24588@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:

# > # > # [text deleted]

# > # > # > To say Jews control international banking is ludicrous.  If it were
# > # > # > true, than Israel wouldn't need loan guarantees, they'd just go to
# > # > # > the Jewish international bankers with their perfect no-default record,
# > # > # > no?

# > # > # Why should Israel go to the bankers direct when generous old Uncle
# > # > # Sam is good for the touch.  Under the Cranston amendment, Uncle
# > # > # has also promised to help the perfect no-default record by advancing
# > # > # money as needed to forestall any delinquency....just roll the
# > # > # notes as need be.
 
# > # > 	This is a lie whi was first (I believe) presented on USENT by
# > # > Yigal Arens.  The fact is that the Cranston amendment only indicated a
# > # > desire to do something, but id DID NOT AUTHORIZE A SINGLE PENNY of
# > # > expenditures.  Besides, it was included in a resolution that was
# > # > effective for only one year.
 
# > # > # This sounds like pretty powerful financial
# > # > # clout to me, but don't give Israel all of the credit when probably
# > # > # most of it should go to AIPAC, a lobby that seems to be well out
# > # > # of control and working against the best interests of the American
# > # > # people.
 
# > # > 	Contrary to popular myth AIPAC is a worthless organization with
# > # > clout at all.  It has never won a contested battle, and the recent
# > # > loan gloan gau fiasco showed just how impotent they really are.
 
# > # If AIPAC is so powerless, then why did the president of the pro-Israel
# > # lobby resign after being secretly tape recorded while bragging that
# > # AIPAC was negotiating with the Clinton campaign about key appointments
# > # and claiming that he had made a deal with James Baker to get Israel
# > # extra aid?  Harry Katz, AIPAC member, who taped David Steiner's
# > # conversation, sent the tape to the Washington Times which published
# > # the news about last Wednesday.  
 
# > # Katz is quoted as saying "I don't think the Jewish lobby should have
# > # disproportionate political power" and "I wanted him [Steiner] to admit
# > # to me the incredible infiltration of the Israel lobby into the
# > # campaign."  Steiner is said to have bragged about the many people
# > # "we have" in Clinton's headquarters and how they were all going to
# > # get big jobs.  He even said "we're negotiating" with the Clinton camp
# > # on who might be secretary of state.

# > 	He was fired because the whole thing was a lie.
 
# 	How can you be so dogmatic in your belief that he was lying?

	Because he admitted to it, and it makes no sense.

# Evidently Harry Katz, member of AIPAC, thinks the lobby has indeed
# acquired "disproportionate political power" as he said or I hardly
# think he would have gone to the trouble to start taping conversations.

	That is what he thought, or at least was afraid of.  That has no
bearing at all on whether or not it was true.  It was based on fear
and emotion.  Mr. Katz had know way of knowing for sure.

# > # > 	By the way, what agenda caused you to utter that nonsense about
# > # > "working against the best interests of the American people"?

# > # Possibly the same agenda that motivates Harry Katz.  My allegiance is
# > # to this country and its constitution.  I'm tired of seeing the few
# > # remaining nickels in our near empty coffers siphoned off by foreign
# > # interest groups.

	Actually, AIPAC is an America interest group.  Just because you
disagree with its aims does not mean it is not.  And how dare you
claim its members do not have allegiance to this country and its
constitution.  Are you trottting out the old double loyalty canard?

# > # I'm amazed that our Congress will do so much to
# > # assist the immigrants of a foreign nation and  so little to help
# > # the millions of recent immigrants in our own land.
 
	Fine.  Then vote them out if you do not like it.  However, do not
play McCarthy with those you disagree with.

# > 	Listen, just like you and I, AIPAC is the American people whether
# > you like that or not.  If you are for/against certain policies, you
# > are free to make up your own lobbying group.  it is disgusting that
# > you feel those Americans some how are not American enough for you.

# 	I hardly need to make up a lobbying group to express my opinion
# that a major part of our problem is lobbying groups.

	It is not a matter of making up lobbying groups to express an
opinion.  The point, as YOU have made it, is the effect of lobbying
groups on policy making.  Therfore, why not start your own?  You are
free to do so.

# And regardless of
# who likes it or not, I am free to speak out against the abuse of powers
# by special interest groups, of which AIPAC is just one

	As far as I know, even ass-holes like you are free to speak out,
so nobody trying to deny you this.

# although it is
# a powerful one, which are so damaging to the best interests of this
# nation.

	It is a weak lobby.  It may be adamaging to the US, although I
doubt it.  At any rate, even if so, how dare you impugn upon the
motives of its members?  Maybe they are just wrong, not unpatriotic.

	By the way, the only real lobby that does what you claimis the
Japanese.

# Frankly, I am tired of government by lobby and special interest
# group.  If being a loyal citizen who would like to see government restored
# to the people is a crime, then I plead guilty.  If you prefer government
# by lobby, fine.

	What I prefer is not at issue.  What is at issue is your
Mccarthyism and your desire to take away certain freedoms like
political organization from American citizens.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.news-media