From: westr@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Robert _FinnAgain_ West)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Samples, Semantics, Death of "Industrial" "Music"
Date: 26 Jul 92 23:58:19 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Jul24.042211.11791@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bp271@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Matthew N. Sharp) writes:
>
>
>
>
>Point One:
>	The word "sample" is overused and misinterpreted among
>	the geeks that post to this group.  Samples are not
>	restricted to the vocal clip soundbites which you seem
>	to hold them as being synonymous with.  Most drum sounds,
>	and other instrumental noises you hear on the average
>	buttgeek Skinny Puppy or Ministry record are samples.  Two
>	seconds of sound is two seconds of sound.  if I had the 
>	time I would post a comprehensive list of "samples" to
>	any record by one of these "music" groups, howevere I do not,
>	and furthermore, the very concept of having to listen to
>	the trash again nauseates me greatly.
>
>If you mean "snagged vocal clip'art'" say something other than
>"sample", as "sample" is too vague a term to define what you are
>babbling about.

	To address the question of sampling: Industrial music is not
alone in using the "clip art" technique in its creative endeavors. The
techne is well-established and a respected method in many forms of
art. In literature, for example, authors such as James Joyce, William
S. Burroughs, Bryon Gysin, etc. have not only legitimized the method
but have stimulated artists in other mediums. Psychic TV, for example,
is greatly influenced by WS Burroughs. Granted, the Beat generation
sometimes carries with it a shaky validity, but then the Academy
requires at least a generation of time to pass before validating
anything.
	The repetitive nature of Industrial and Rap music is often
criticized. One might address this from two standpoints. 1) Music is
onlu music when created originally. Influence should be absorbed
before it is reproduced in one's own work. i.e. If you were influenced
by say, Led Zeppelin, you must create your music not WITH but THROUGH
Led Zeppelin. 2) That the repetition of influence and recombination of
previously created sounds creates its own sound space, informed and
sustained with the ever-present references of the sampled music.
	To wit: No one has ever criticized the Indian mystic for the
repetitiveness of the mantra. The creation of the canonical bible was
decided by a council sampling the available books. The retelling of
oral stories and legends are sampled and enhanced by each individual
story-teller, or are sometimes told exactly the same way as heard.

>
>
>I give "industrial" "music" two more years to die out completely,
>only to be replaced by some other moronic genre of Angry Young Man
>music that white suburban/subhuman geeks will buy, desparately
>grasping for some form of "expression" to identify with, unable
>to understand anything outside the realm of popculture.

	You may give any opinion you like, but for some of us
Industrial music is more than a mere means of identification in a
world that won't have us. Industrial music is a sonic expression of
the alienation and stratification that humanity feels in the wake of a
new religion: technology. Heidegger was perhaps more wise than
paranoid when he warned us of the machines. With the Industrial
Revolution came with it an attendant dependency on technology. We rely
on technology to solve even our most simple problems. The human spirit
is driven not TOWARDS but BY technology. Much like Industrial music,
in which the machines, at first invoked by the human, suddenly are
realized as the motive force behind its human progenitor, forced to
keep pace with the persistent drone of technology.

>I have a friend in the business who holds this same view.
>Be advised: if you wish to make money from the "industrial"
>"movement", do it now, or be forever banished to play what will
>be considered shortly, if it isn't now, passe.
>
>And isn't that what it all boils down to, anyway?
	One wonders why every "movement" that deviates from the norm
is branded by the cynics as "passe" and only a marketing ploy. I hope
that some of my thoughts will be seen for what they are, possible
explanations, rather than flames. I suppose this article will generate
ten more like it and ten more that agree with Matthew. I hope that
amidst the technogression that so dominates this particular brand of
music, we can at least allow the "white suburban/subhuman geeks" among
us to enjoy the music that best resounds with their sensibilities.

>
>Love,
>Matthew
>-- 
>Matthew Neill Sharp
>bp271@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu

   (BTW, IMHO Skinny Puppy jams.)

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:Robert West             :    away along the riverrun	: a schizophrenic out:
:English Department      :     past Eve and Adams       : for a walk is a    :
:Purdue University       :        or kill me!           :better model than a :
:westr@mace.cc.purdue.edu:------------------------------:     neurotic on an :
:AOL: FinnAgain          :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:    analyst's couch :
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Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial