HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:58 PDT
Subject: Atlanta, GA Save Somalia Project
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700116:000:778
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep 12 19:58:00 1992


Ali Mohamed has begun the "Save Somalia Project" in Atlanta, Georgia.
He is from Somalia, has been in the US about 8 years, and says his
organization is a grassroots effort.

An article by Ali Mohamed on the Somalian famine appeared in the Atlanta
Constitution (and was reprinted in the Austin American-Statesman in Texas).
He says this article resulted in a number of contributions to CARE for
Somalian relief.

He is working without a fax machine and wants to hook up to computer networks.

He says he has been writing Congresspeople and warning about Somalia since
MArch 1991, but "nobody would listen to me."

He can be reached at P.O. Box 190063, Atlanta, GA 31119-0063

Telephone nos. 404-320-9240 and 404-634-6353.

Mr. Mohamed's parents are still in Mogadishu, Somalia.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Email for Zimbabwe?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:28:07 GMT

In <4050@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>Can any one give me an email address for Zimbabwe? Please write to my
>address not the net. 

The University of Zimbabwe is emailable - try "postmaster@zimbix.uz.zw".

(I've responded by mail as well, but thought this might be of general
interest)
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Re: Bisho Massacre
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:42:16 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za (AK MARQUARD) writes:
>This seems to be a tendency at UCT, or is it just 
>confined to the maths and philosophy departments? Does "Gavan" think 

I'll make a bargain with you.  You don't characterise the whole of
UCT by Gavan Tredoux and Hardy Hulley, and we won't characterise
the whole of Rhodes by Wayne Humphreys.  Deal?

-- 
--------- Heidi de Wet ---------- heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za ---------

For the finest galactic travel
                             Kippenhan Cruiseliners gets you there
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: T.K.Hara@newcastle.ac.uk (T.K. Hara)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Email for Zimbabwe?
Keywords: e-mail to Kenya
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:14:31 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU

Any information of e-mail  facilities in Kenya ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
From: ccdw@kudu.ru.ac.za (Dave Wilson)
Subject: Re: Campus Fascists
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:30:26 GMT

In <1992Sep9.192743.25324@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:

>In <1992Sep9.135222.202729@uctvax.uct.ac.za> msncra01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Craig Mason0--Jones) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep9.131733.202726@uctvax.uct.ac.za>,
>>wnljam01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>>> I don't believe there has ever been freedom of speech at certain university's
>>> in S.A. - certainly not at U.C.T or Wits!  Last week SASCO made a mega-noise
>>> because of an INKATHA speaker being invited onto the campus - they suggested
>>> the trashing of the meeting!  Interesting parley for "freedom of speech"
>>> advocates.  I wonder if the ANC and their puppets know what those words mean?!

>>But of course you overlook SASCO's first objection - that INKATHA has no idea
>>what freedom of speech means. After all, SASCO is effectively banned on all
>>KwaZulu campuses, is not allowed anywhere in KwaZulu. Don't try to whitewash
>>Inkatha by criticising SASCO.

>So we solve this problem by effectively banning Inkatha from speaking on
>campuses where SASCO has a major role.

Welcome to tit-for-tat politics.  As long as there are *any*
organisations allowed to get away with this sort of thing, selective
criticism is meaningless.  

>Swift move... but didn't somebody once say that two wrongs don't make a right?
>Or doesn't that maxim apply in this case?

I'm pretty fond of that maxim myself - except when it is used to justify
criticism of a second wrong, when the first wrong has gone largely
unnoticed and unremarked.  This also applies to all the criticism that
has been heaped on the ANC since the events of the last few days in
Ciskei - the fact is Ciskei was set up and is ruled by a minority
government inspired dictator.  Let's put our energies into righting that
wrong.


--
Dave Wilson                               Computing Centre  
ccdw@kudu.ru.ac.za                        Rhodes University
27-461-22023                              Grahamstown, South Africa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:29:24 GMT

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>I agree with the person who described Die Stem as a tribal
>anthem, not just in its wording, which you may judge for
>yourselves, but also (through its exclusive use) what it
>represents.  

So allow me some stirring.. :-)
I don't think it's wording supports much of the tribal anthem thing.
If one disregards the baggage that comes with Die Stem ("the voice", for
those who don't understand Afrikaans) and only look at the words,
especially the official translation, it is not at all "exclusive"
-- or am I totally mistaken?  OK, one also have to ignore its christian
nature, but then Nkosi sikelele is even more christian.

The only "exclusive" part in Die Stem is in verse 1:

>     From our plains where creaking wagons cut their trails
>          into the earth - 

but one could argue that not only whites (or afrikaners) used creaking
wagons in the past (or even still today).

The Afrikaans version is more "exclusive", but only in two places: the
one mentioned above and then the last line of the second verse

>     Waar en trou as Afrikaners - kinders van Suid-Afrika.
      Tried and true as Afrikaners - children of South Africa

[Which gives me an idea - I'll translate the Afrikaans version more directly
into English and post it tomorrow, unless I get a flood of NO! PLEASE
DON'Ts :-)]

And before I get hate mail: no, I don't care if we get another anthem, as
long as it is a nice one.  Nkosi would do, just a pity Zimbabwe already
took the tune (and Malawi's anthem also sounds like it - words are 
similar too).
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Freedom of Expression
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:03:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

 AV> superstitious.  AND I DEFEND THE RIGHT OF ANY WITCHDOCTOR TO PLACE A
 AV> CURSE ON THE INTERNET, INCLUDING ON MYSELF AND ON YOU.

Consider it done! <g>




--  
INTERNET: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Subject: Re: Killing (Masacre) in South-Africa
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:35:09 GMT

Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters) writes:
> GTH> most cold blooded "human being" is the leader of Ciskei.
>
>Yes, agree 100%, but I would add Ronnie Kasrils and a few other
>"lesser known brands" to the statement.

To equate what Kasrils did and what Gqozo did relies on a
conspiracy theory. To quote the great authority, where's
the proof that there was a conspiracy from the ANC? The
interview with Kasrils convinces me that the ANC gambled
on Gqozo backing down. Isn't this what Lenin (or someone
like that) called adventurism? The postings saying that the
local ANC on the ground wanted to march and that nothing
could have stopped them. The first part I agree with, but the
second not. The point of leadership is to provide leadership
not to pander to romantic notions.It's very easy for me to
say this I know, but I think that they could have 
channelled the anger in some way.

The government really acted stupidly. Imagine if Ramaphosa
had been killed (or John Hall for that matter). Where would
negotiations be then. They are in control of the Ciskei and
need to take responsibility. 

That doesn't mean that Karils shouldn't be criticised. 
Sometimes I think that he thinks he is in a Baroness Orczy/
Enid Blyton adventure book, when he is not. What he did was
stupid, but that doesn't equate him with Gqozo.
From: bk577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jane Bires Jiumaleh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SOMALIA: As if hunger is not bad en
Date: 11 Sep 1992 04:33:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


NPR reported today that the Somali "minister of health" signed
a $80 million agreement to allow European countries to dump
toxic waste in SOmalia.  The agreement was signed last December;
was the signatory a member of Ali Mahdi's "interim govt?"  In any case,
the agreement was secret.  No evidence of payment of dumping yet.

BUT, I have been hearing rumors in the Somali community in Ottawa
all summer that toxic waste HAS been dumbped in Somalia  Has anyone
else heard these rumors?  Can anyone provide more information?

Waste was to be transported by Swiss and Italian ships.  It's too
shocking to think that Euripe would take advantage of Somalia's
lack of government to sign such a n agreement with a figurehead who
needs money for his civil war effort and probably represents little
of the citizens outside Mogadishu.  Do I need to mention that Somalia
does not have the technical knowledge to handle and store toxic w
waste safely?  

Do we have a fax number for the Swiss?

Jane Bires Jimumaleh
(that should be, Jiumaleh)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:4781 sanet.talk.politics:17 apc.reg.safrica:6
From: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics,apc.reg.safrica
Subject: Re: Figures on Violence - Controversy Grows
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:51:06 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Sep9.163514.16718@cs.ubc.ca>, shaze@cs.ubc.ca 
(Scott Hazelhurst) writes:
> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

[Stuff by Gavan deleted]
 
> Final shot: if my views are of so little interest, why do you spend
> two articles ripping them apart.

Maybe because ripping them apart requires very little effort?

Hardy


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mike Lawrie)
Subject: Re: Killing (Masacre) in South-Africa
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:49:33 GMT

In <GILFORD.92Sep8121848@lexus.vuse.vanderbilt.edu> gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Gilford T. Hapanyengwi) writes:

>...[]...
>	I would really appreciate more information from the people in
>South-Africa in particular and the rest of the world for that matter.
>Please tell us what the heck is happening and what you (or they) say
>is going to happen next.

It is a long story, of course, and you will need to have a great deal of
background to realise what is going on.

Here's a personal viewpoint:-

1/ the ANC want to topple the rulers of the "homeland" (sub-)states that
are not controlled by the ANC

2/ the ruler of the Ciskei is such a target (as is the ruler of Kwazulu,
more violence to come and the Zulus could show the world what "massacre"
means

3/ it was known with complete certainty prior to the march that it
would result in deaths because the Ciskei ruler is not going to allow
himself to be toppled by such activity

4/ in spite of (3) the ANC proceeded to organise the march

5/ the ANC has lost a great deal of sympathy amongst liberal whites in
South Africa for this action

Mike
-- 
Mike Lawrie                                    <ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za>
Director, Computing Services                   ph +27 461 22023 x 279
Rhodes University, Drostdy Rd                  fx +27 461 25049
Grahamstown 6140, South Africa
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS: MOZAMBIQUE: PEACE AGREEMENT EXPECTE
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:35:20 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

Reference: Disarmament & Peace; Europe, western
Title: MOZAMBIQUE: PEACE AGREEMENT EXPECTED ''WITHIN A FEW WEEKS''


rome, sep 5 (ips) -- a general peace agreement between the
government of mozambique and the armed opposition movement is
expected to be signed ''within a few weeks'', according to
monseigneur jaime goncalves, archibishop of the mozambican city
of beira.

goncalves has acted as mediator in the peace negotiations that
began in rome two years ago, to put an end to mozambique's
16-year civil war which has claimed more than one million lives.

the archbishop said the success of the talks is due in large
measure to an ''initiative by the episcopal conference of
mozambique, which always believed in the possibility of a direct
dialogue between both sides'' in the conflict.

he recalled that in 1985, when all contacts with mozambique's
national resistance movement (renamo) were illegal, the church
established relations with the rebel organisation both in
mozambique and abroad.

goncalves said the bishops of mozambique had been instrumental
in paving the way for the direct dialogue between the warring
factions, which began in rome in july 1990.

at a meeting in rome on august 7, mozambique's president,
joaquin chissano, and renamo's leader, alfonso dhlakama, agreed
to conclude the peace talks by october 1.

the two delegations are due to meet again on tuesday at the
san egidio catholic community in rome, where negotiations have
been taking place with the mediation of italy's deputy foreign
minister, mario raffelli, and two representatives of the catholic
community.

the mediators expect to receive a positive response to a
request they presented to president chissano and the renamo
leader, calling on both parties to take a decision on the
reorganisation of the country's secret services.

this delicate issue, which has been the final obstacle to
reaching a peace agreement during recent talks between the
mozambican government and renamo, will need to be resolved at the
highest level.

to this end, the mediators have sent letters to president
chissano and renamo leader alfonso dhlakama calling on them to
intervene, since they believe the matter can only be resolved by
the top leaders of both sides. (ends/ips/trd/sp or en/jp/vh/cg)



-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:48:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.BuCr1A.E7o
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) writes:

>In article <Bu7v51.4u5@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>>took the tune (and Malawi's anthem also sounds like it - words are 
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>This is totally untrue! Malawi's anthem has almost nothing to do with
>Nkosi - Zambia's, yes. 

The Malawian anthem starts:

  Mlungu dalitsani Malawi, Mumsunge m'tendere
  [Lord bless Malawi and save her in peace]

   (sorry, I can only remember snippets of the rest now - can get it if you
   really want it)

The tunes are not identical, but there are resemblences.  The reason I
mentioned it was because I read (a couple of years ago, so can't remember
where anymore) that the Malawian anthem was based on Nkosi..  This of
course is no proof that it was.  Why are you so adamant that the one has
nothing to do with the other?

-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: Killing (Masacre) in South-Africa
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:25:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.194933.2916@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mike Lawrie) writes:
>In <GILFORD.92Sep8121848@lexus.vuse.vanderbilt.edu> gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Gilford T. Hapanyengwi) writes:
>
>>...[]...
>>	I would really appreciate more information from the people in
>>South-Africa in particular and the rest of the world for that matter.
>>Please tell us what the heck is happening and what you (or they) say
>>is going to happen next.
>
>It is a long story, of course, and you will need to have a great deal of
>background to realise what is going on.
>
>Here's a personal viewpoint:-
>
>1/ the ANC want to topple the rulers of the "homeland" (sub-)states that
>are not controlled by the ANC

So does de Klerk and his government, even though they are probably the
only ones who believe places like Ciskei, Venda, Bop..., etc are 
independent states... In case some don't get the drift, de Klerk is
reported to be planning to call on Ciskei to surrender its security
forces or some such thing and the announcement is to be made Tuesday.
I'm not sure why Tuesday, especially when the info seems to already
have gone public...

>
>Mike
>-- 
>Mike Lawrie                                    <ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za>
>Director, Computing Services                   ph +27 461 22023 x 279
>Rhodes University, Drostdy Rd                  fx +27 461 25049
>Grahamstown 6140, South Africa

--

lk(with the man in the yellow hat)
              Hamba Ine, Adada cha!
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Drs. Without Borders Press release
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:55:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700113:000:2211
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep 11 18:55:00 1992


                    SOMALIA
           PRESS RELEASE #24
        FROM MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES (DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS)

	
PRIORITY MUST BE GIVEN TO THE CONTINUATION AND DECENTRALIZATION OF FOOD AID


In the extremely tense social and human context of Somalia, Medecins Sans
Frontieres, which is in favour of the principle of UN forces intervention,
is worried that the nonnegotiated arrival of more troops may constitute a
serious danger for the safety of humanitarian workers and for the still
fragile aid infrastructure.

In contrast to the presence of UN forces in Mogadishu, which had been
properly prepared and is proving necessary for the capital's security, an
added deployment in Somalia without previous agreement by all sides may
risks to be taken locally as an agression and result in the rejection of
any form of western intervention.

Medecins Sans Frontieres would like to remind all sides that the delivery
of supplies must remain the priority in interventions.  Tensions will be
reduced when the volume of delviered provisions is increased to more
regions.

Large numbers of displaced persons are leaving their regions, where
privation is considerable, for the cities in the hopes of receiving survival
rations.  This leads to high concentrations of people in a few sites where
health conditions are extremely precarious and the tension is all the
stronger for the fact that *aid is as yet insufficient* [emphasis added--dm]
Greater deployment is indispensable and must lead to keeping populations in
or encouraging them to return to their home regions.

Medecins Sans Frontieres and a certain number of humanitarian agencies such
as the ICRC [International Committee for the Red Cross] are already
trying to widen the perimeters of aid.  These are presently 18
Medecins Sans Frontieres child feeding centers in the Marka-Brava region
(Marka, Qorioley, Bulo, Marer and Brava) and 6 in Kissmaayo.  A new
feeding and medical programme has now been set up in the regions
of Baidoa, Waajid, Hoddur (about 150 kms. to the north of Baidoa) and
Kansardhere.

For further information please contact Francois Dumaine at Medecins
San Frontieres (Paris): Tel. (33-1)402102846.

Paris, September 10, 1992
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Re: SOMALIA: Free faxes to Italian UN mission
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 07:34:54 GMT

The faxgateway of the Swedish University net (SUNET) can be used for sending
questions to the Italian UN mission. My experience from dealing with Italian
bureaucrats is that nothing but an extremely corteous tone does the job.

Send your fax as an ordinary e-mail with the following address:

Italian_UNMission@f0091212-486-1036.fax.sunet.se

Faxes can be sent free of charge. 

Take the opportunity to ask about the Italian position on the Somali crisis
as a whole. During the initial phase of the civil war Italy supported one
of the factions and their Ambassador in Somalia (Sig. Sica) refused to even
meet with representatives of the other factions. Recently a senator went to 
Baardheere and met with gen. Aydiid. Does this mean that Italy are shifting
its support to that faction (i.e. the USC / SPM ) or what motives did they
have for that visit. 

Another interesting question: Given the facts that Southern SOmalia was an
Italian colony for more than fifty years and that the Italian government
was the last foreign power to withdraw its support from Siyad Barre's regime,
does the Italian government now feel that they have some kind of moral
obligation to support the suffering masses of SOmalia?


FAX NOW!


-- 
*****************************************************************************
*                                  *                                        *
* Bernhard Helander                * Telephone: +46-18-182289 (office)      *
* Dept of Cultural Anthropology    *            +46-18-303448 (home)        *
* University of Uppsala            *                                        *
* Tradgardsgatan 18                * Fax:       +46-18-151160               *
* S-753 09 Uppsala                 *                                        *
* Sweden                           * E-mail: Bernhard.Helander@antro.uu.se  *                                  
*                                  *                                        *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccdw@kudu.ru.ac.za (Dave Wilson)
Subject: Re: UPI: Ciskei troops kill fifteen as ANC marches on Ciskei capital
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:50:04 GMT

In <1992Sep10.142340.27922@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

>There isn't any parallel, merely because people are out in the streets
>in both cases. The European situation was largely spontaneous, it wasn't
>organized by a insurgent organization with a history of armed struggle
>and "people's war". One striking difference: in Europe the communists
>were the target of the protests, here they lead them. Notice Ronnie 
>Kasrils' admission that his Olympic sprint was planned, in defiance of
>a magisterial order.

And what better reason is needed to shoot a couple of dozen people.
Congratulations, you just made my kill file.

--
Dave Wilson                               Computing Centre  
ccdw@kudu.ru.ac.za                        Rhodes University
27-461-22023                              Grahamstown, South Africa