From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Programming for the World of Bob Sargol
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:35:33 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In an earlier posting responding to Sargol, I asked about
his sexuality.  I've now seen a posting of his saying he's
gay.

He says to some of his detractors, in effect, you don't
allow for disagreement.  I don't think *he* allows for
points of view other than his own, either.  So maybe he's
projecting.  There's a great deal more in his postings that
supports my initial reaction to his remarks: he has a
personality disorder, an actual clinical problem.  Sargol's
mind is nothing if not made up.  We know what he thinks now.

I edited a posting of his, intending to respond.  But it's
such an unpleasant prospect, and from the things he says,
not a promising one.  I decided to try this instead.

I have a proposal to make to the cohort.  In the following,
"we" means anyone who thinks this is a good enough idea to
want to pursue it.  Contrary opinions, as usual, are
welcome.

For the meantime, perhaps it makes no sense to spend our
energies *directly* on this person.  Instead, we could
discuss some of the points that are mentioned in his
postings and responses to them.  Under this proposal, he
would not be a participant himself, but rather be
constrained merely to listen.  Postings he may make could be
ignored (or stored by interested or outraged parties) until
such a time as our own discussion winds down, reaches
approximate consensus, or reaches an impasse.

This proposal is the very opposite of a suggestion to
channel discussion or debate into "approved" forms.  On the
contrary, it is a way to get what we need without
squandering our energies on such fruitless hogwash as his
canards about thinkspeak and the like.

Sargol is a gay man.  There are millions like him, I think.
He stands for something, whatever one may think of that
something.  He walks and talks like the enemy, and in his
published remarks has forfeited most of his bona fides.  But
let's be generous and assume he's not altogether beyond
being reached.  Even if we don't reach him, we still have
the possibility of learning from each other, whether he gets
any of it or not.

Let's turn our attention to possible outcomes of such an
exercise, for if the outcome is not worthwhile, there's no
point in starting.  In many ways, Sargol is an instance of
the Kirk & Madsen typology, the "After the Ball" fantasy.
We've talked about that quite a bit already, and I doubt
much useful would come from further discussion.  But there
are issues worth talking about, I think.  Listing some (in
no particular order):

1.  Are we sure we know homophobia when we see it?  Not in
    the obvious cases (bashing, name-calling, blatant
    discrimination), but rather in the case when the
    opponent thinks (rightly or wrongly) they are merely
    expressing a divergent opinion?

2.  What are the terms of the middle ground between, on the
    one hand the ATB model of seeking acceptance by the
    majority in *their* terms, and on the other hand,
    categorically refusing to compromise the demands of the
    fraction of our cohort that ...

[Well shit, I can't even formulate that question, it's so
 revolting to me!]

[Maybe this isn't going to work.  Well, I still sort of like
 the first one, so I'll keep that.]

[Ah, this is easier...]

2.  What do we want?

3.  Can it be gotten?

4.  What will it take to get it?

The exercise is: we're the tv program, Sargol and his ilk
are the viewers.  Our goal is to reach them in terms even
they can comprehend and embrace.  Just to make it harder for
us, we're to try to keep them from changing channels, so to
speak.  We probably can't reach the George Bushes, but maybe
we can reach the Barbara Bushes (I see she's more popular
than he is at the moment, 62% to 36%).

What say?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
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Newsgroups: soc.motss