HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller)
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Tucson Az.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:58:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.192507.475@riacs.edu> dschlot@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Schlotthauer) writes:
>Does anyone know if an idea can be patented? I called a patent search
>company and they sent me some forms to fill out asking what my invention
>was with a space for me to draw a diagram of it. I told them it was
>still in the idea stage but they said it didn't matter. I haven't even
>started putting it together yet. Will they ask for a prototype when
>and if I am granted a patent?
>
>Thanks in advance!!
>

I am almost positive that it is entirely possible to patent and _idea_.

Luther
From: Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Grant Cunningham)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: The FIFTH DISCIPLINE - Reposted
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:03:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711800287.F00008

John Fischer wrote about "The FIFTH DISCIPLINE - Reposted".
Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:

 >> And as a REAL entrepreneur (tm) did
 >> he/she ask what can he do with the snake - sell it to the zoo/museum? And
 >> how can one get more snakes? Who would be the best customer, and what
 >> his/her needs really are? Today's problem come from two historical
 >> traditions   - avoid curiosity   - don't think.

 JF> ....Well, Tapesh, it's obvious you don't get the point.  That's to your
 JF> disadvantage.

Nope.  I think he's on the money.  It's all too easy to look at "systemic
problems", look a layer deeper, think about it, analyze it some more, then
do something that is scientifically correct -- and lose your shirt to the
rug merchant who switched to selling snakes.

Business is about making mistakes -- as fast as you possibly can.  You will
never stop making them, and no organization will ever solve its problems
permanently.  So, make the damn mistake, learn from it, and go onto the
new opportunities it opens for you.

 JF> ....If your comments are really serious (which I really doubt) why don't
 JF> you walk across the street and talk to Dr. Senge, yourself.  He happens
 JF> to be the Director of Systems at MIT's Sloan School of Management!!
 JF> ....Your comments strike me as arrogant.

Hmmm....which one of you gave Fred Smith a "D" on his term paper??
<just kidding -- go back to sleep!>

-=[ Grant ]=-

Fight-O-Net:  1:105/54.55
Eunuchs: UUCP  ...!{reed, m2xenix}!glacier!busker!54.55!Grant.Cunningham
         INTERNET  Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.FIDONET.ORG
From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Printing a Directory
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:01:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Jul21.125406.17252@microsoft.com>, muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim) writes:
> I am interested in printing a Directory.  I information will be
> completed in three months.  I have few questions
> 
> ADVERTTING:To cover some cost I will need some advertisement $'s
> Where to look for companies (doing business internationally or 
> related to)that will be interested in Advertising.
> Any Reference book for their addresses.
> 
> 
> PRINTING: Where to look for printing or publishing companies.  How to 
> deaal with them.  What kind of information should I ask them.
> Cost for 200 pages black & white except coverand back will be
> 4 color? Should I get the orders first than print or print 5,000  to
> 10,000 copies.
> 
> POSTAGE : Will it be better to get bulk rate or let the printer to
> all the mailing
> 
> MARKETING : How & where to advertise?
>     
These are very large questions, and you are going to need help from
someone who knows this business. It sounds like you want to attempt
to publish and distribute it yourself, but I don't see how that is
possible since you know so little about the mechanics of production,
publication, and distribution.  You will be doing yourself a favor to
try and get an established publisher (even a small one) to contract to
publish your book.  If, however, you insist on trying to do it yourself,
research self-publication in the library and read everything you can
find on the subject. And also be prepared to have cash to finance the
production and distribution of the book.

Good luck,  Lou Crago, Ed.
	    Medicine Wheel Press
From: jlegg@neptune.phys.ufl.edu (Jeff Legg)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: buying computer parts wholesale
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:10:06 GMT
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

Greetings,
A few business people in our area are considering starting a co-op
for computers.  We have had problems locating distributors/wholesalers.
If anyone has info. on credit terms, and or vendors, I would be very 
interested.  We are mainly looking into IBM clone types and peripherals.

Regards,
Jeff



Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: dschlot@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Dave Schlotthauer)
Subject: Patent Question
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 19:25:07 GMT

Does anyone know if an idea can be patented? I called a patent search
company and they sent me some forms to fill out asking what my invention
was with a space for me to draw a diagram of it. I told them it was
still in the idea stage but they said it didn't matter. I haven't even
started putting it together yet. Will they ask for a prototype when
and if I am granted a patent?

Thanks in advance!!
From: johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Patent Question
Date: 29 Jul 92 04:39:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <55340@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> warble@vmdb.vet.purdue.edu (Alan Warble) writes:
 
>If the idea is just an idea and not an idea about a specific
>thing (like a new machine) then write it down and take out
>a copyright on it.

The only thing this will do is prevent someone from using the
*exact* words that you copyrighted. It offers absolutly no 
protection from somebody using your idea in any other way
(like building and selling it). Matter of fact, after this 
country moves to a first-to-file patent system, your suggestion 
won't even prevent someone from taking out a patent on a 
copyrighted idea - they just couldn't use the copyrighted wording 
in the patent (and they must be first).
 
>If it's a patentable idea, there are two types of patents:
>a design patent and a utility patent. Both need patent attorneys,
>and both are expensive (design 6-800 dollars, utility $2000)

Huh? I'm named on 12 patents, and have sat through many hours
of patent counsel - I've never heard of any more than one type
of patent. Oh, and by the way, a patent attorney is going to charge
you more than $800 just to sharpen his/her pencil during the first
meeting.

John Abt
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level.scam.scam.scam
From: Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Subject: Re: Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Summary: response to diatribe on MLM
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:19:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.152742.1@ualr.edu> sabarnett@ualr.edu writes:
>What other business do you know that is legal, ethical, and :
>1.  You are paid exactly what you have earned and will realize an excellent
>    return for the time you invest.
>2.  You can start part-time without the risk of losing your present income.
>3.  You can start with a small, easily affordable investment.
>4.  You have unlimited income potential and the opportunity to be financially
>    independent.
>5.  Most Network Marketing opportunities have a very low overhead.  You do
>    not need an office or employees.
>6.  The income you earn is both permanent and self-sustaining.  Plus, the
>    business becomes part of your estate and can be passed on to your heirs.
>7.  Your business is non-seasonal and offers many tax advantages.
>8.  There are no territories or limitations.
>9.  Your business is inflation proof.
>10. No limitations on age exist.  Many retired persons are enjoying second
>    careers through Networking.  Many distributors have set up business in
>    the form of trust funds for their children.
>11. Many Network Marketing companies feature national advertising support for
>    their distributors.
>12. There are the possibilities of expanding internationally and traveling
>    extensively.
>13. A great many people have already proven that you can become wealthy in
>    this industry.
>14.  Today there are numerous books and audio cassette tape training programs
>     for new distributors.
>15.  This is the only business I know of where you can succeed by simply
>     telling other people what you are intending to do!  Sooner or later,
>     someone is going to offer to do it with you, thereby allowing you to
>     succeed in spite of yourself.

Well, if you eliminate the silly and unreasonable restriction of being legal,
and, some would argue, of being ethical, then robbing banks meets most of
these criteria.
				Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Organization: CSG Group
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:30:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.141821.26509@research.nj.nec.com>
shm@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Shailendra Majmundar) writes:
>Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? What I
>mean is that a system may be formed by which the people at the bottom
>of the pyramid would contribute x amount with an incentive to go up
>the ladder while the money be distributed in the pyramid top down? It
>would be similar to what Amway does, excepting that here there would be
>no selling of products, simply PURE MONEY GAMES.
>
>Note that this would not be gambling or game of chance. Statistical 
>formula can tell exactly how much a guy would make if the pyramid runs
>okey. 
>
>Sam (shm@syl.nj.nec.com)
>
>PS: My thoughts and whims are mine only.
>

TOTALLY ILLEGAL!! You'll have the FED's on your butt so fast it won't even be
funny!

Jon

Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2368 alt.business.multi-level:312
From: moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:57:20 GMT
Followup-To: misc.entrepreneurs
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Jul23.141821.26509@research.nj.nec.com>, shm@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Shailendra Majmundar) writes:
> Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? What I
> mean is that a system may be formed by which the people at the bottom
> of the pyramid would contribute x amount with an incentive to go up
> the ladder while the money be distributed in the pyramid top down? It
> would be similar to what Amway does, excepting that here there would be
> no selling of products, simply PURE MONEY GAMES.
> 

You are allowed to form a pyramid based on a service rather than a product.

One legal way to do this is to sell mailing lists, participation in the
pyramid invloves paying to have your name put on a mailing list which is
subsequently sold. The sales of these lists is necessary legally but it is
secondary to the main thrust of the group - which is the pyramid.


> 
> Note that this would not be gambling or game of chance. Statistical 
> formula can tell exactly how much a guy would make if the pyramid runs
> okey. 
> 

Remember that FRAUD and DECEPTIVE SALES PRACTICES are illegal in any case so
this scheme won't really work in most cases since you are in fact operating
a fradulent enterprise (assuming you claim that people, in general, can make 
money from doing this). The fact that the math is well understood legally 
requires you to tell your prospective clients that your scheme is valueless
to the vast majority of participants.

-Tom
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: jon_sree@world.std.com (Jon Sreekanth)
Subject: System administrator questions
Organization: The World
Distribution: misc
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:06:01 GMT


I'm studying some aspects of a system administrator's role. By system
administrator, I mean the person who's responsible for the 
nuts-and-bolts of keeping a lan, mini or mainframe system running : 
installing new software, creating accounts, backups, rebooting when 
it crashes, etc. I'm looking at both the academic and corporate 
computer center environment.

- What is the availability expected from a sys admin ? For large
systems, I'd assume there are 3 shifts of constant, on-site sys
admins. For smaller systems, which cannot afford this, and have
maybe just one person, is that person expected to be available
24 hrs ? Does he or she get paged at 3 in the morning  when the
system crashes ? (How do they get notified that the system died ?)

- Are sys admins generally employees/contractors or free-lancers 
(truly independent consultants, not people through a body shop). 
Is it common for a free-lance sys admin to support several systems and 
spread out his/her cost ? Are there third party "support houses" which 
have their own staff and send out a person to each site as required 
(as opposed to having them there all the time) ?

Any information would be much appreciated. I'd particularly 
appreciate hearing from readers who are or have been sys admins, 
especially in a campus setting. Please follow up here or I'll 
summarize email responses after removing names. 

Thanks, 

/ Jon Sreekanth

Assabet Valley Microsystems, Inc.           |  Fax and PC products
5 Walden St #3, Cambridge, MA 02140         |  (617) 876-8019
jon_sree@world.std.com                      |
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: tjio@venice.sedd.trw.com (Lee Tjio)
Subject: Re: Anyone need a SECOND INCOME???
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:29:44 GMT

Give us a break ... please!  How many MLMs do we need around here?  I start
seeing MLM recruiters in malls who approach total strangers and try to
get them involved.  They all seem to just have started a new MLM ... great
opportunity (so they claim) because YOU don't have to start from the bottom
of the totem pole.
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2388 alt.business.multi-level:319
From: kevoka@auto-trol.com (Kevin O'Kane)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:31:20 GMT
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation

In article <1992Jul23.141821.26509@research.nj.nec.com> shm@syl.nj.nec.com writes:
>Is it illegal to form a pyramid system without selling a product? What I
>mean is that a system may be formed by which the people at the bottom
>of the pyramid would contribute x amount with an incentive to go up
>the ladder while the money be distributed in the pyramid top down? It
>would be similar to what Amway does, excepting that here there would be
>no selling of products, simply PURE MONEY GAMES.
>
>Note that this would not be gambling or game of chance. Statistical 
>formula can tell exactly how much a guy would make if the pyramid runs
>okey. 

This is what is known as a ponzi scheme and is illegal. This is not in any
way similar to what Amway does.
From: dfavor@logan.tivoli.com (David Favor)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Taking Credit Cards w/o a Store Front
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:58:18 GMT

In article <70206@apple.Apple.COM>, spud@Apple.COM (Dave "Spud" Kalin) writes:
|> I too have started a company that deals mostly in non-storefront business
|> (mainly mail-order and trade-show sales), and here's what I found out:
|> 
|> Most conventional banks will not accept merchant accounts if you don't
|> have a storefront.
|> 
|> There are a number of Independent Processors who WILL accept non-storefront
|> businesses, but they obviously charge a higher rate.
|> 
|> Rates vary widely among IP's, and they will most likely check your
|> PERSONAL credit standing to determine your rate.
|> 
|> Just about all IP's make their money by making you lease their electronic
|> card-processing units at exhorbinant rates (one IP charrged $93 per
|> month for 48 months, until they checked my credit, which then dropped it
|> to $48 per month).
|> 
|> If you look hard enough, you may find a real bank that will accept non-
|> storefront businesses.  Their rates may be lower, but they may make you 
|> deposit a multi-thousand-dollar CD in their bank to make sure you don't
|> run off next week.
|> 
|> 
|> As for my personal recommendation, after weeks of research, I chose Cherry
|> Payment Systems as my IP because not only were they the lowest rate, but
|> they were also very flexible in meeting my startup needs.  Contact Craig
|> Tanner at 408-733-4935 for more info, and be sure to tell him that I sent
|> ya.  :-)
|>  
|> Other places to research are ECS Systems (415-592-3767), and your local
|> branch of Bank of the West (in California).  There are IP's listed in the
|> business section of USA Today, but non of them were even close to the
|> rates I got from Cherry Payment Systems.  Of course, your actual mileage
|> may vary.
|> 
|> Hope this helps,
|>    Dave Kalin
|>    ProAct Software

my wife works out of our home and sells products at craft shows. on my
recommendation she called the bank that she had held a credit care with
for many years. she located the individual in charge of issuing credit
cards then traveled to the city where this woman had her office. she
took with her samples of her product and a 10 year business plan. she
was granted credit card priviliges on the spot without even having a
commercial account with this bank.

my point here is that successful people do whatever it takes. she got
a rock bottom rate 2.9% - 4%. if you find the actual person in charge
of making the decision you can probably cut an interesting deal. if you
show that you are serious you better your bargining position. 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: uk09365@nx11.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Subject: Re: vending machines
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:08:45 GMT

In article <711800287.F00007@therose.pdx.com>  
Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Grant Cunningham)  
writes:
> robert i kesten wrote about "vending machines".
> Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:
> 
>  rik> I've been following dad around lately watching as he arranged
>  rik> the purchase of a 6-unit residential property.  Now he is
>  rik> working on a 28-unit property near campus.  If the deal goes
>  rik> his way he is considering the installation of some vending
>  rik> machines in the complex lobby to boost revenues.
>  rik> Any experiences with this.
>  rik> Should he do this himself or rent space to a jobber?
> 
> Call a vending company and have them install the machines.  DO NOT
> try this at home. <g>  Your dad will have someone to take care of the
> machines, and all he has to do is cash the checks they send him.  Also,
> if the location is any good at all, he'll have several vendors vying for
> the space, with the contract going to the one who pays *him* the largest
> "placement fee".  That's right -- your dad will get an upfront payment
> just for the opportunity to put the machines in, then a monthly share
> of the profit.  Doing it himself would be something less than astute...


This advice appears to be fairly consistent with everything else
I've heard.

Thanks to everyone who posted here or sent email regarding my post.

Robert K.
From: mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Compact Disc Wholesalers
Date: 28 Jul 1992 12:38:19 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.89.16.47


>  4) Prices are not as good as you might think. Examples:
>
>     LIST    WHOLSALE
>     ----------------
>     $15.99  ~$11     (This is your standard new release POP/ROCK CD)
>     $14.99  ~$10
>     $13.99  ~$9      (These are getting into the budget or "nice price" CD's)

Whoa!! That's steep, considering I can go to the local HMV music store and buy
any new release for $10.99. I guess for the standard CD's (14.99) if you sell
enough it might work out.


								_Mike_
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: eric@tfs.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: Taking Credit Cards w/o a Store Front
Organization: TFS
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:29:49 GMT


To the extent that fraud makes it difficult to get a merchant account,
there is an opportunity for a group of entrepreneurs to solve this
problem.  Establish a credit card processing company that specializes
in fraud-prone markets such as direct mail.  To protect against fraud,
require the merchants to wait 3 months to get paid.  Allow exceptions
for those who put up collateral, such as equity in their house, etc.
Make sure all merchants are aware of the exact rules before they sign
up.  There is no need to harass them nor tell them they only have a 30%
chance of being approved.  If adequate protection against fraud is set
up properly, it should be feasible to accept 100% of all applicants
with no worry about making mistakes.  Your biggest competitive
advantage would be that you allow them to start accepting credit card
orders almost immediately after applying, and don't frustrate them with
burdensome paperwork, uncertainty, and delays.  To keep them as long
term customers, you could start them at a 5% rate and gradually lower
it such that after a few years they would be paying 2%.

Every problem is an opportunity in disguise.  An entrepreneur is one
who can see through the disguise.
From: dao4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD A. O'SHALL)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:56:09 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <26490026@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM>, fritz@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Gary Fritz (
tmp)) writes:
>In misc.entrepreneurs, moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:
>
>>You are allowed to form a pyramid based on a service rather than a product.
>
>This is true.  However:
>
>>One legal way to do this is to sell mailing lists, participation in the
>>pyramid invloves paying to have your name put on a mailing list which is
>>subsequently sold. The sales of these lists is necessary legally but it is
>>secondary to the main thrust of the group - which is the pyramid.
>
>I am almost certain this is wrong.  You can't slip around the pyramiding
>laws with a sham product.  You must have a product that people would buy
>EVEN IF THEY WEREN'T IN THE PYRAMID -- otherwise the pyramid IS the product,
>and that's illegal.
Be certain. Not only is it limited as you describe, but the product sales MUST
be a separate entity from the membership fees, etc., and the fee charged for
the product must be reasonable with its fair market value outside of the MLM.
DARE TO BE GREAT was taken down for lack of product when its product was a set
of inspirational tapes on the MLM... and the SEC confiscated virtually
everything the High Rollers involved had at that stage. Koscot Enterprises, on
the other hand, had a mink oil based product line in sufficient quantities to
be legal product, the higher fees for product based on a perceived value in
the derivation from Mink. ( I am not advocating this, so animal lovers should
find another target... I am merely relating the events. )

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not licensed to practice Law or Medicine in any State, so my opinions are
just that!         DAo4@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU      (Don)
From: fritz@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:35:43 GMT
Subject: Re: ILLEGAL TO OPERATE MULTI-LEVEL WITH PURE MONEY TRANSACTIONS??
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO