HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: orville@weyrich.UUCP (Orville R. Weyrich)
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 15:35:46 GMT

In article <greg.717948880@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
>Terry must be a very patient man.  This country has seen a steady*
>decrease in the ratio of one's life spent in discretionary time vs. one's
>time spent in mandatory labor during the last 150 years.  And, the last four
>decades of the period, like the first four, have produced a particularly
>distressing acceleration** of that erosion.
>
>*There was a temporary reversion during the depression when the average
>workweek dropped to 30-35 hours.


Now that's an idea -- what this country needs  is another depression :-)

Congress should be able to  imnplement  this in no-time, after all the
practice they have had  implementing our present "its not a  depression  its
only a recession, no  its not even a recession anymore" economy.

orville

--------------------------------------   **************************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
--------------------------------------   **************************************
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6836 misc.jobs.offered:11793 misc.jobs.resumes:5790
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered,misc.jobs.resumes
Subject: Geographic split: proto-formation of RFD
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:39:35 EST
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

	It looks like we're a go for an RFD on geographic based split of
misc.jobs.offered.

	The next step is to decide *what* the geographic splits should be.

	I would suggest keeping it as general as possible for now.  Further
splits can be done later, if necessary.

	For example:

	misc.jobs.offered.
			  usa.west
			     .south
			     .east
			     .midwest
			     .misc (for national availability, etc.)
			  canada.east
				.west
				.other (as above, maybe for MacKenzie locations:)
			  europe...

	So post (to misc.jobs.misc ONLY please!) your geographic split
suggestions.  I'll post an RFD sometime next week.  Also needed are charter
suggestions, FAQ file(s) (use same for each, etc.), etc.

	I would think continent.region or country.region would work best for
the split.  Even though m.j.o is dominated with "western" countries, please
include ideas for all inhabited continents!

	And for those who oppose such a split, no I (we?) am not ingoring your
views.  However, email and posts showed an over 3:1 in favor result.  This is a
good indication that a well-run split will work.  Don't feel that you have to
stop objecting on my account :).

	The vote (if/when it comes) will be a multiple, parallel vote with
*each* subgroup requiring a vote.  If we want this to pass, that's the way it
has to be.  Otherwise the vote is likely to be rejected for violating the
guidelines.  Because of this, let's keep the total number of groups to a small
number (<15-20).

	Thanx for your interest!  Followups to misc.jobs.misc (as always:).

Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jcm@apollo.hp.com (John C. Minniti)
Subject: Re: To all those looking for lists of recruiters...
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:55:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

Sorry to use this bandwidth, but... 

I've been trying to send you email re: this and your posting, last week, in 
misc.jobs.offered. Unfortunately, it's bouncing. Would you try sending me mail 
at the address below, so I can try to respond that way?

============================================================================
John C. Minniti
Technical Publications Consultant
Technical & Professional Consultants, Ltd.
15 Myopia Road
Winchester, MA 01890-3713

telephone:  (617) 721-2054 (please leave a message)
            (617) 729-9328 (home phone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             At HP, you can reach me via email or phone (until 30 Oct 1992):

                   email:      jcm@apollo.hp.com
                   phone:      (508) 436-4144
============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:21:12 GMT

orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:

>In the area of physical needs, women clearly have significantly greater needs
>than men. Believe me, I was able to work right up to the evening of my child's
>delivery, and show up at work the next day as well.

My God Orville. I am just floored.   "Dull chap" doesn't begin to
describe you.

Screw the goddamned job.  Why did you have a child in the first place if
you were totally unwilling to act like a man?

I hope your wife had enough sense to run off with a human.

greg
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Where all that vacation time went!
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 14:08:21 GMT

In article <1874@sousa.ltn.dec.com> paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis) writes:
>How about the counter-argument that kids get in trouble during the summer
>because there are no adults around to see to their emotional growth?
>
>Try this one on for size:  Instead of locking the kids up in school over
>the summer, give *adults* 12 weeks of vacation as well, so that parents
>and kids can enjoy the summers *together*!!
>
>Isn't this what family values is all about?

Except that the kids that are getting into the most trouble don't seem to 
have families. Generally their mothers will claim them as long as they boost
the welfare check, but a typical dialog concerning the father goes something
like this:

	What is the father's name? ... I don't remember.
	Can you describe the father? ... I can't recall that incident.

[No appology made to a certain senile ex-president :-)]

>Naaahhh... can't do that.  Now that there's no missle gap with the Soviets,
>we need to work on the Workaholism Gap with the Japanese instead.  Until

Sounds good! And we can get all the workaholic Japanese tourists to come over
and drive our lorries in the Summer and run the hospitals and grocery stores. 

:-)

orville

--------------------------------------   **************************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
--------------------------------------   **************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston)
Subject: Re: Hiring Freeze
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:25:08 GMT

In article <3775@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, mtw8527@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Wallach) writes:
|> Has anyone had an experience where a prospective employer was prepared
|> to offer he/she a job and a hiring freeze was put into effect?
|> If so, when the freeze was lifted was the position still offered?
|> 
|> 

This happened to me a couple of times. Each time I had to keep waiting and
then the requirements changed.

-- 
************************      Don't just do it!     ***********************
Lockheed Eng. and Sci. Co./Nasa Larc|J. Keith Alston jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: icpa@orac.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: NZ Engineering Jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:55:26 GMT

selee@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lee Say Eng) writes:


>How does one go about applying for engineering jobs in
>New Zealand?  

>Which organization should one get in touch with to see 
>what jobs are available in NZ? 

>Any information regarding this will be greatly appreciated.
The International Computer Professional Association is a member supported
organization for experienced software professionals who want to work overseas.
We have contact with over 750 technical recruitment firms in the US and
abroad. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us and we will
send you information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net



Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 22:40:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.102544.24569@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl> arjay@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel) writes:
>cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver) writes:
>
>>In article <BvFBAK.FB1@world.std.com> ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:
>>>[lots of stuff deleted]
>>>
>>>I think companies should provide family leave, but benefits like this
>>>should be voluntary, not forced either through legislation or
>>>collective bargaining.  In the long run, far-sighted company
>>>management would see that such efforts would benefit the company as
>>>well as the employees (obviously true, but management is not noted for
>>>its vision).  Forcing companies to comply would simply cause them to
>>>supply the very minimum possible benefit and still be within the law.
>>>
>>>And, young married women might find it a bit harder to find a job.
>>>
>>>T.T.
>
>>And single women too.  Well said, well said.  
>
>Women in general do, and will continue to have a hard time in the
>Business marketplace as long as attitudes continue along these lines.

Exactly what atitude is that? The attitude that women should be treated as
interchangeable with men in the workplace, but should be given benefits that 
men don't need? Somehow this seems to me to be hypocritical and contradictory.

IMHO our society would be better off if the current Politikally Koreckt
thinking were abandoned in favor of some set of axioms that are both internally
consistent and consistent with physical reality.

>>There are too many people
>>looking for a free lunch in this country and we have it relatively easy 
>>compared to others.  We need to look to Asia in addition to Europe for
>>hints on policy; the Asians will eat our lunch if we are not looking.
>>(I think they already got breakfast)

Agreed.

orville

--------------------------------------   **************************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
--------------------------------------   **************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: akerson@deimos.srg.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp)
Subject: Re: Cash Prizes for Ideas on Saving U.S. Jobs
Organization: ARINC Research, Corp.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 12:58:21 GMT



orville@weyrich.UUCP (Orville R. Weyrich) sumarizes :

>> The United States must maintain equilibrium with the rest of the world
across its borders. Protectionist import taxes are not a good idea, but taxes
that are generally applied to all imports while we have a trade deficit are
a good idea, as long as the procedes are re-invested in domestic programs.

(Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp) wrote:
>>>>(2) highly tax imported cars, electronic goods, and electronic parts; use
>>>>that tax revenue as capital to (re?)-invest in those industries.

(hundreds of lines of protectionist and anti-protectionist stuff chopped.)

some reasons to try (2) above are:
1. Some (Japanese) imports sell below cost to build; when the US manufacturers
   collapse, the (Japanese) own the whole market. eg. TVs.
2. National security; without a manufacturing base for vehicles and electronics,
   how are we supposed to defend ourselves. (Dont ask me against whom.)
3. Jobs; paying a slightly lower price to some overseas company impoverishes
   the country by that $ amount. And you have to put Joe Autobuilder on the
   dole.

No, I dont expect Congress to allocate said tarrifs responsibly. So I say try
for symetry; use tarrifs on imported electronics to help domestic 
electronics, etc.
--
Usually Reply-to: akerson%srg@uunet.uucp
Internet: akerson@srg.af.mil@uunet.uucp
Uunet: uunet!srg!akerson
Milnet: akerson@srg.srg.af.mil     maybe ...
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 02:29:25 EDT
From: <343DALN@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: naturalization
Distribution: na

NAMES
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jean@rs.com (Jean Safar)
Subject: C++ Sun Unix Sybase Jobs (Recruiter)
Reply-To: jean@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:21:07 GMT

This is posted for a friend:

Positions available in new York City in the banking industry.
1 to 2 years experience with C++ and Unix. 

If interested  please contact 

Larry Santarelli 
Phone: 212 921 1319 
Fax: 212 764 3363



 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: keith@rss.dl.nec.com (Keith Becker)
Subject: Re: what's a nice place? Places in the US
Organization: NEC America
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:31:58 GMT

I'm with Mike Sellers that the Northwest is tops. I lived there most of my
life before taking a job here in Dallas, TX. Now after four years I'd like
to move back. I'd rank the Portland metro area as #1. Seattle isn't so bad,
but he's right, the traffic is murder. Crime rate is rising, too, and property
costs have definitely increased. Seems like those darn Californians are moving
up to the NW and bringing their problems with them! Next thing you know, 
they'll be having earthquakes, too! :-) (just a joke - no flames, please!)

I'd rate the D/FW pretty high for big city environments. The cost of living
is very low here, and the job market for tech. workers is pretty good compared
to the rest of the country. But if you're a yankee like me, it can be a pain
in the butt sometimes, too. It's just too damn flat and hot here! And what
happened to all the trees? On a serious note, Dallas and Fort Worth have a
serious crime problem to deal with. But I guess most big cities do.

I'm looking into the Boise, Idaho area right now. It's nice there, too. Anyone
have opinions on Boise?

Keith Becker
keith.becker@rss.dl.nec.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Subject: Re: Salary History?
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:33:51 GMT

bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:

>	If a company asked for my salary history, I would ask why they wanted
>it.  There aren't any good justifications that I can think of right now, but it
>would be interesting to hear their response :).  If it's to *justify* the
>salary you are asking for, watch out.  You may never be treated fairly by this
>company.  If you have been underpaid the last few years (a good reason to seek
>a new job :), you're supposed to come into a new company just as underpaid?!
>
	True.  No good justification, but some poor ones that make sense
	(but still aren't good).  For example, I have heard that a company
	will ask to make sure that they can afford a salary that you would
	ask for.  Also if the budget is tight for the job they are offering,
	then it might be important to know a bottom figure for you (assuming
	that most people don't want to leave a current job for another one
	of lower salary).  I understand that the better question is to ask
	what your required salary range would be.

>Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
>to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	My goodness.  What a sexist quote.  Did she really mean this?  This
	is the true bigotry of sexism...  The courts don't tell a husband
	to get out and get a job for the same reason that they don't tell
	the thousands of wives out there living off their husbands to go
	out and get a job.  How offensive.  Is there something inherent in
	the Y chromosome that obligates it to support a spouse?

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Salary History?
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:58:42 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <92272.102759RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Ricki Dulin) writes:
>As a previous Personnel Manager there a good reasons to ask for this
>Let's say you currently earn $45,000.  The job you just applied for will
>only pay $25,000 (but you don't know this because they failed to post the

No! No! No! This still doesn't justify asking for salary 
history!  You could have a very good reason for taking what
appears to be a salary cut, and for exactly the reasons you
specified.  Yes, there are tough economic times out there.
Isn't that in and of itself reason enough to accept what 
appears to be a pay cut from a previous job of $45000 to
their current offer of $25000?  It isn't a cut if you are
currently unemployed.  You may have made $45000 in the past,
but if you are unemployed now, you aren't making *anything*.
With all the unemployed engineers out there, $25000 is better
than nothing.
--Keith
From: jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov (J. Keith Alston)
Subject: Re: Salary History?
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:35:40 GMT

In article <92272.102759RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>, Ricki Dulin <RICKI@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
|> As a previous Personnel Manager there a good reasons to ask for this
|> information.  Don't ever lie - it is almost always grounds for immediate
|> dismissal.

 Spoken like a true human resources person. I don't want to seem to be
 advocating lying, because I'm not, but how would they ever know that you 
 lied? To my knowledge, employers don't give out current or ex-employees
 salaries to just anyone who calls on the phone.

|> 
|> In poor times as the US is experiencing now most companies don't offer
|> a lot of negotiation.
|> 
|> Example:
|> Let's say you currently earn $45,000.  The job you just applied for will
|> only pay $25,000 (but you don't know this because they failed to post the
|> salary in their advertisement) The employer must assume you would not be
|> willing to take this sort of paycut (and therefore can't not afford you).
|> If you are willing to take such a big pay cut the employer will make some
|> assumptions about what kind of person would do such a thing.
|> In times like this I wouldn't expect to double your salary by switching to a
|> new employer.

   I wouldn't want any employer making these types of assumptions about
   me, and so I prefer to keep my salary history to myself. If they ask
   how much you're looking to make and you reply, X amount of dollars,
   thats all they need to know. Either they can pay it or they can't.
   They can offer you less, but it's up to you whether you`ll take it
   or not. I believe that asking for a salary history is almost always
   (at least in my part ot the country) an attempt to find out how
   little a company can get away with paying you. I think a person
   ought to be paid according to what the job pays and not according
   to what they made with a previous employer. 

-- 
************************      Don't just do it!     ***********************
Lockheed Eng. and Sci. Co./Nasa Larc|J. Keith Alston jka@windshear.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jost@wilbur.coyote.trw.com (Patrick Jost)
Subject: Re: Recruiters/Headhunters/Personnel Services, disadvantages of using them?
Keywords: Recruiters, Headhunters
Reply-To: Patrick Jost <jost@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:28:40 GMT


Headhunters-YUCK!!

I got the job I just left (at TRW) through a headhunter. He either painted a 
very optimistic picture, or had no idea what was going on. The job he described
just didn't exist, and it took me YEARS to undo the foolish mistake I made 
of taking the job. 

BTW-watch out for him-Dan Huber of "Action" in S. California.

Personnel/HR departments...I liked the post where the guy said some HR person
wondered if astrophysics were like physical education. That must have been
a smart HR person. Their job seems to be screening people out, dealing with
headhunters, and, these days, doing exit interviews. Personnel can't help
you get hired, just the opposite!

Everything I've read about finding work, as well well as my own experience
indicates that you've got to network like a mother$%^&*# to do it. I've got
staggering phone bills to show for it, but I've also got a job. As I said, it
took years!



Patrick




-- 
..suenos perdidos, dolor infinito, ya sin sentido, en el triste fluir, de los
llantos sumergidos, al silencio de un grito en el vacio... (J. L. Velasquez)

                  Patrick Jost/jost@itd.nrl.navy.mil
From: pchaddha@oracle.uucp (Parmeet Chaddha)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: WANTED IMMEDIATELY:  MS-WINDOWS DEVELOPER
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:21:19 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

POSITION:  	Software Development Engineer
LOCATION:	Datis Corporation, 1875 S. Grant St., Suite 400
		San Mateo, CA 94402
SKILLS:		- At least two years MS Windows Development Experience
		- At least four years of C Programming (System and App)
		- Experience in C++, Object Oriented Analysis and Design,
		  Database Design (ORACLE), Networking (LAN and WAN)
QUALIFICATION:	- At least a 4 year Bachelor Degree in Computer Science or
		  equivalent
		- A M.S. in CS with work experience is preferred
RESPONSIBILITY:
	This position provides an excellent opportunity for a dynamic
	technical wizard to participate in a high growth company.  Datis
	Corp. is involved in the business of selling information to the
	health care industry.  This position is an opportunity to shape a
	new segment of Datis' business by building cutting edge tools and 
	applications to serve the information needs of the largest 
	industry in US, i.e. health care.

	The high growth rate of the company offers an attractive growth
	path for the qualified individual.

CONTACT:
		Parmeet Chaddha
		(415) 571-0931;  (415) 571-0955 (FAX)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: frain@cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: what's a nice place? Places in the US
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:15:11 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: depot.cis.ksu.edu

While we're on the topic of places to live, would anyone like to share
their opinions on Maryland, in particular the Baltimore area?

Jerry Frain
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc