X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 4 Apr 1992 17:07:00 CST
From:         Darryl Johnson <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Request for advice

From: Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Medically speaking, a fetus is human.  I have demonstrated this many times
in this conference, and have _never_ read any responses to the medical
issues I have raised in support of this.
     Probably because doctors have no better qualifications to
     determine what qualifies as "human" than anyone else.  They
     can certainly provide a unique perspective, but they are
     limited in that a) they only operate on humans, not ALL
     life forms, b) they are unfamiliar with most of the OTHER
     approaches to the issue (I thought this was a religious
     issue, or so I have been informed.  If so, why are you now
     ready to drag medicine into it?), as any specialist would
     be.  I would grant that doctors are the best qualified to
     determine when a fetus is alive.  The question of what is
     human is NOT a medical question.  I find it extremely
     doubtful that you posted medical information on abortion
     and it was ignored universally by all.  So I must assume
     that you mean that you didn't READ the responses to your
     information, not that no one posted any.

> My Pastor always likes to say, "When in doubt, _don't_."
>     I keep picturing a man with one leg on the pier, and
>      one leg on the rowboat, the gap between them getting
>      larger, and the man remaining motionless, because he
>      can't decide which way to jump.

Ridiculing my statements by taking them to ludicrous extremes is not
appreciated here.  In your example, the man clearly doubts whether or
not to get into the boat.  If he took "when in doubt, don't" seriously,
he would quickly jump back onto the pier and get another boat at a
safer time.
     Why do you assume he is getting INTO the boat?  Your
     pastors statement seems to say "When you are faced with
     a situation that might require some deep thought (i.e.
     a simplistic solution is not obvious), it is better to
     do nothing and hope the situation gets better on its own."
     In my opinion, my rowboat example is NOT "ridiculous
     extremes", it is a valid anology of what was originally
     a ridiculous statement.

Let's try to keep the discussion civil and rational, okay?
     I don't mind it when people get angry because I overstepped
     the line, and attacked them personally, or because I used
     unfair techniques on their position.  I DO mind when people
     get angry because I used a VERY rational, real-world analogy
     to show why their original STATEMENT was a bit silly.  I
     can only edit my own statements, people, not yours.  Don't
     get angry at me for YOUR statements.  Unless you can show
     me, Jeff, why my man-suspended-between-a-rowboad-and-a-
     pier does NOT accurately describe the proverb "When in
     doubt, don't", I stand by it.  The man, NO MATTER WHERE
     he stepped from, was NOT in doubt BEFORE he moved.  ONLY
     now, when he is EQUALLY distant from both boat and pier,
     is he in doubt as to which direction to jump, and your
     pastor seems to believe he should wait for the inevitable.

I resent you continually taking my examples to ludicrous extremes, and
thereby trying to put words in my mouth.  Jesus Christ taught moderation
rather than extremes.  Please try to do the same.
     Indeed.  They were ludicrous when I GOT them, Jeff.  Don't
     toss a platitude at me, imply that it has value in all
     situations, and then get angry when I point out a situation
     where it has detrimental effects.  What could be MORE
     extreme than a platitude that says simply "don't"?  Let
     he who is without extremes cast the first stone.
/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\
>   Darryl K. Johnson      (  "It is usurping life to do  <
>   Texas Christian         )  no more than simply avoid  <
>   University             (   doing harm; the dead do as <
>   Fort Worth, Texas       )  much, and exact nothing    <
>                          (   for it." - Prince de Ligne <
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/ DJOHNSON@tcucvms.bitnet      DJOHNSON@gamma.is.tcu.edu  \
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