From: briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:51:03 GMT
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>How many British people have noticed that if a couple of people are
>talking in an inordinately loud voice [British definition]..
>
>(i) they're having a heated debate (in which all nationalities appear
>to raise their voice), or (ii) they're American
>
>But of course this doesn't take into account all the Americans who go
>unnoticed because they don't display the characteristics of the
>stereotype, and remain unheard.

Thank you.

>In Britain, someone with a consistently loud voice (to our ears) is
>often thought to be an overbearing arsehole with little to say in
>content, who uses volume to gain attention.

I personally have always believed this myself, though I am American in
America. That some of my relatives are this way, loud and loutish, only
reinforces my view.

>To start another thread. How anyone can put up with the impersonal
>"Have a nice day" without screaming back "Go f*ck yourself"/"Do you
>know me?"/"Do you really care?", I'll never know.  How can there be
>any sincerity wrapped up in this throwaway expression? Answers
>required to (i) how prevalent this is, (ii) what net-people think
>of the practice? (iii) examples from Britain.

The best comeback I've found is a very huffy "DON'T tell ME what kind
of a day to have!!!" Of course, it's as rude as the original so I rarely
stoop to it, or bother with it.

Believe it or not, after you've heard it a few kazillion times, you no
longer hear it. This probably answers (i) and (ii), and being American,
I can't give you (iii). Being polite, I probably wouldn't if I could.

-Brian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Summary: 
Expires: 
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Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.
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>How many British people have noticed that if a couple of people are
>talking in an inordinately loud voice [British definition]..
>
>(i) they're having a heated debate (in which all nationalities appear
>to raise their voice), or (ii) they're American
>
>But of course this doesn't take into account all the Americans who go
>unnoticed because they don't display the characteristics of the
>stereotype, and remain unheard.

Thank you.

When I was in Europe, some Dutch co-workers explained to me that the only
tourists who could out-American the Americans were the Germans. Either they
were being polite to me, or the fact that the Netherlands beach towns are
German vacation destinations was behind that. My impressions echoed theirs:
ugly Americans were reprehensible, but Germans were that way with malice
and intent. Americans were ignorant and oblivious, but unintentional.

Of course, intentions don't really change the result.

>In Britain, someone with a consistently loud voice (to our ears) is
>often thought to be an overbearing arsehole with little to say in
>content, who uses volume to gain attention.

I have always made this assumption, though I'm American in America. That
I have relatives who qualify on both counts, loud and lout, only verifies
it in my mind. I have been mortally embarassed eating with them in a
restaurant. Never again.

However, this can also be a socio-economic indicator. (We're not allowed
to talk about class differences in America; by definition there aren't
any. Any pistol-packing, beer-swilling, unshaven, swearing, gut-hanging
truck driver can become president. Or president's brother, in one case.)

>To start another thread. How anyone can put up with the impersonal
>"Have a nice day" without screaming back "Go f*ck yourself"/"Do you
>know me?"/"Do you really care?", I'll never know.  How can there be
>any sincerity wrapped up in this throwaway expression? Answers
>required to (i) how prevalent this is, (ii) what net-people think
>of the practice? (iii) examples from Britain.

The best response I've heard is a very huffy "DON'T tell *ME* what kind of
a day to have!" Best spoken at "brutish American" loudness levels. However,
this is as rude as the original is impersonal, so I rarely do it. Often I
want to, however.

After you've heard it a few kazillion times, you don't hear it at all,
which should answer (i) and (ii).

>(*) I am a "choir-singing coal miner, who shags sheep" (age old
>stereotype of the Welsh).

You mean this *isn't* true???? And they're NOT all named Llewellyn? Damn!

-Brian
--
Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 19-286
Beaverton, OR   97077