HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:59:02 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat, Inc.

In article <1992Aug17.022849.2319@tronsbox.xei.com> tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>>I don't read the National Enquirer, either.   Its the basically
>>the same thing.  If you want to read it, feel free. If you
>>want to write letters to it, challenging each and ever article,
>>also feel free.  However, innuendos that to not read the
>>National Enquirer is to bury your head in the sand...be serious.
>
>	The problem is that from the C= perspective it is NOT the same
>thing. They have a definate profit motiv to do some PR for the Amiga.

But, from my perspective you insisting that _I_ read and respond to
Marc's posts _is_ the same as requiring people to read the
National Enquirer.

>	No - I take your word for it. But your implication that we
>don't get info on Usenet because it is not "official" made me think
>that BIX (being official) had the info we want.

Certified or Commercial developers conferences on BIX might indeed have 
the information you want.  But I'm not going announce the info here.

>>>+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
>>
>>I've always wondered.  Do you have an actual connection to
>>Ted Nelson ?
>
>	Who is he ?

You're kidding, right ?  Ted Nelson, inventor of hypertext in the 60s, founder
of Project Xanadu in the 60s, owner of the Xanadu trademark, author
of the book _Computer Lib and Dream Machines_ , etc. ?  You've never
heard of him, really ?  I always thought your company name indicated
some connection.  (One of his other trademarks is "The Eternal Flaming X"
so you could see how I could have been confused :-) )  Basically, he
predicted a lot of the personal computer revolution, and came up with a lot
of advanced ideas about how to use computers that are just becoming possible
today.  
			
>+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
>|             Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1             |Virus


		andy

-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"The good news is that there is a program for the PC that converts between
 300 different graphics file formats.  The bad news is that it's needed."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 01:58:29 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Aug17.154656.8534@ultb.isc.rit.edu> eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story ) writes:
>In article (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>In article  (E.A. Story ) writes:
>>>In article  (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>>>In article  (E.A. Story ) writes:

>>>Oh, effective.. perhaps.. Moral?  no way.  Check out Japan's judicial
>>>system.  Yes, they have a 95% conviction rate, yes they have a very low
>>>crime rate, and yes, they are continually guilty of human rights abuses
>>>within this same judicial system.  
>>
>>Granted, this IS .advocacy, buy could be have _some_ base for this statistic?
>
>I'm not writing a report on Japan's judicial system... It was an
>educated guess based on the previous 95% rate.  I realize this is
 ^^^^^^^^
>becoming a MBism... so I withdraw the statement.

And by what basis do you consider it "educated".  It just sounds
like a guess to me.

>>DO you want to prevent crime or NOT?  Don't pussyfoot around with criminals-
>>they'll never learn.  If the US had a 95% conviction rate and a prison
>
>Ok, so how are criminals supposed to learn when you kill them?

Up till now, I hadn't been discussing the death penalty, just the
ridiculously-lax judicial system that fails to incarcerate.  But, if
you insist...

The point isn't to TEACH them anything.  Those who have killed
have already exhibited their inability to learn society's most
fundamental lessons.

The point is to forever keep them from doing it again.  The ultimate
deterrent, at least for THAT criminal.

I know...life without parole, eh?  Until that's outlawed (as it was
at least once here in California).  

>Jails
>don't reform anyone, at least the ones you and Mike are suggesting.  The
>means justify the ends?  You may subscribe to that.. but I dont.
>
>>Good grief, that is what I mean if I ask 'what do 
>>you propose?' - I mean that you complain about crime, but holler when people
>>like me calmly point out just _what_ measures would need to be taken.
>
>I never complained about crime... Mike Haas is the one doing the
>complaining.  I was pointing out that the measures that YOU and Mike are
>suggesting are repressive... even scary.  

No, the number of violent criminals walking the streets as free men,
AFTER having been apprehended, convicted and sentenced is what's
scary to me.

Taking your life, raping your mother, girlfriend, child...now THAT's
repressive.

Insuring that the inhuman garbage that does such things can never do
it again is MORAL, JUST and NECESSARY.

It's YOUR attitude, Ezra, that scares me.  And you STILL haven't
proposed anything.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21190 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12558
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: A570 price
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:32:20 GMT+12
 <1992Aug10.161627.14259@lth.se> <1992Aug10.213202.15982@cheshire.oxy.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

In article <1992Aug10.213202.15982@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>A570 available in Sweden?!?  Another CBM stunt, release the stuff in
>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>great.
>BTW, what is the price for this Swedish A570 (in US $$ or English pounds
>if possible)...
    If $NZ are O.K. :-) ... the A570 retails at $NZ955.00
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
              she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:15:26 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:

>>  It's representitive of everything wrong with American business today.

>Not at all.  What's wrong with business today is exemplified by
>practices like leverage buyouts, look-and-feel lawsuits, hostile takeovers,
>etc.

  Look and feel is not an endemic problem, it's primarily the domain of Apple
and Lotus.

  Leveraged buyouts and hostile takeovers are two manifestations of the "merger
mania" that occured during the later half of the 80's, but that also isn't the
root problem.

  What's wrong is the short-sighted profit motive these corporations all seem
to be guilty of.  Obscene CEO and other "inner sanctum" salaries are a side
effect of this method of doing business.

>The world is now a more dangerous place than at any other time in history.
>This is no time to cut the defence budget by 90%, as Clinton
>proposes.

  Just when did it become the exclusive domain of the United States to become
the World Police?

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: DIR
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 17 Aug 92 06:59:08 EST
 <1992Aug12.043556.6309@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> <1992Aug13.014759.3055@usl.edu> <185@future.sbc.com>
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <185@future.sbc.com>, mk9629@future.sbc.com (Mike R. Kraml) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.014759.3055@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>I beleive the full 50Mhz 486 runs a little over 40 MIPS, maybe 41-42.          
> 
>    I kind of doubt it, the 486/50 dx2 which does run internally at 50MHZ
>    averages 9 MIPs on the C&T MIPS benchmark, which, I believe does a 
>    pretty good job with a general instruction, integer, memory to memory,
>    register to register, and register to memory instruction mix.  Granted
>    the straight 50 will do better on the memory access tests, however, 
>    its only a fraction of the equation.  Overall, you could probably 
>    expect around 10-12 MIPS (using a decent MIPS benchmark) on the 
>    50 MHZ 486 DX chip.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Mike...
> 
	Unfortunately MIPS is not that good of a benchmark, since you
	don't know what that instruction is doing.  An example: on a
	CISC machine one instruction might do what several instructions
	are doing.

>>*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Re: DIR
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 16:27:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.211643.6069@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>In <1992Aug12.184148.22794@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes:
>>As for cpu power, the 486-50 beats it by quite a few marks.  A 040-25 only
>>has the performance of a 486-33 cpu.  But if you compare a 040-33, well
>>that may be another story.  
>
>Well, even that is only partially the truth. The 040 is remarkably fast
>at floating point operations and a large part of todays software that
>needs CPU power uses it for floating point.
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Michael van Elst

Yes, FP is a factor, but the last I read, 486-33 has about the same FP as the
040-25.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September -- NOT!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:45:52 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Aug14.135735.18712@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
> >>When I first heard about the IDE interface I thought it sucked, but it
> >>will be nice to be able to add huge and cheap hard drives.  Still, I
> >
> >But it's a *slow* interface...  Compare it to the 386/486 boards with IDE
> >interface: it's the bottleneck of these machines.  It's ashame that machines
> >with such processing power are released with the IDE interface in stead of
> >EISA or SCSI.
>
> 	I never seem to notice this awful bottleneck on my 486.  Maybe I'm
>    not running the right programs that show the IDE interface to be so slow.
>

A write-through cache solves the bulk of any bottleneck problems there are.
CPUs are getting so fast that ANY disk access at all is a bottleneck.  RAM
is fastest.

> 							G.Greene
>
> >
> >
> >Harald Tempelman <tempelma@prl.philips.nl>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:45:55 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug19.231919.14032@uwm.edu>

>To make another Star Trek reference

No, god, no.

Piccard didn't say anything. It was a two-bit TV writer that said
it.

Its only a TV show only a TV show only a TV show only a TV only a
TV show.

<g>

signed,
an anonymous person who thinks people who argue about star trek
should be put in a loonie (looney? loony?) bin.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: Crime & Death Penalty Re: Perot ? (the thread that won't die)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:32:43 GMT

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.142918.29322@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> robert@geoblue.gcn.uoknor.edu (Robert Lindsay) writes:
>> LET IT JUST DIE!!
>Would you prefer gas, electrocution, or lethal injection?

	NO NO NO!!! We cannot kill an innocent post just
becuase it offends someone! Just think of the poor posts
offsprings, its parent. How would they feel? It's moraly
wrong to let a post die, it has every right to life.

James

:)
:)
:)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gcasa@wam.umd.edu (Gregory John Casamento)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Summary: Multitasking
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:12:34 GMT


jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>You used the words "was originally designed for".  Pardon me if I take this
>to mean "was originally designed for" instead of "is being used today for".
 
Yes "originally designed for" and "is being used today for" mean two 
seperate things.  UNIX *WAS* designed as a single-user system in the
early seventies, but has evolved into a multi-user system whith many
nice features.  Clear enough?  
 
Oh.. BTW, you are pardoned for you gross misuderstanding of what 
I said. ;)
 
>>I still don't think that OS/2 has    
>>anywhere near the functionality of UNIX.  My reason for saying this is that
>>I have yet to see OS/2 multitask as effectively as UNIX or even AmigaDos.
>
>What the hell does this mean?  What does OS/2 have to do to multitask as
>effectively as UNIX or AmigaDOS?  Do you know what you're talking about at
>all?
 
Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.  It's a matter of personal opinion in
this case.  I have used all three systems and all I can say is that OS/2 just
doesn't have the same "feel" to it.
 
For one thing OS/2 does not support virtual screens.  Not screens bigger than 
the display, which both OS/2 and AmigaDOS do support, but screens which can be 
placed one behind the other.  The Amiga has this and it makes it a little 
easier to switch between programs than in OS/2.
 
In addition to the above you must also admit that OS/2 has *alot* of overhead
because it has to support both DOS and Windows programs.  This, I have
found, makes OS/2 a little jerky on anything less than a '386 machine.
 
>Are you done whining now?
 
Who's whining??  I'm trying to tell you my opinion.  If you don't like it, then
put me in your kill file and see it I care. 
 
>--
>+-------------------+-----------------------+-------------------------------+
>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages     |
>| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.       |
>|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses |
>+-------------------+-----------------------+-------------------------------+
>|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry            |
>|                            jerry@polygen.com                              |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 
--
Gregory John Casamento  --  gcasa@wam.umd.edu
**** The opinions expressed in this article are the of Greg's Amiga ****
**** And not of Greg himself.  He is currently being forced by his  ****
**** Amiga (at gunpoint) to write this article.  :) :P B) BP ;) :O  ****
-- 
Gregory John Casamento  --  gcasa@wam.umd.edu
**** The opinions expressed in this article are the of Greg's Amiga ****
**** And not of Greg himself.  He is currently being forced by his  ****
**** Amiga (at gunpoint) to write this article.  :) :P B) BP ;) :O  ****
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: atari users, go home!
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:30:21 EST
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


                              **ATTENTION**
                                   ALL
                      **ATARI USERS INVADING THIS NET**
 
 If the Atari Falcon is as good as you people say it is then people will
buy it. If the Atari Falcon is not a good machine then people will pass
it by. If Amiga users are interested in the Atari Falcon' they will
check out the Atari Nets for more information. The first few message were
informative. It was nice to hear about a new machine with some rather nice
features! The more message I read, the more I realized that Atari Users are
just trying to bash the Amiga. Is the Atari Falcon that bad that it requires
constant Amiga bashing to survive! Please stop you repetitive jabbering. 

 This is an Amiga conference, while I am open to hearing about new machines
I am not in the mood to read the same message worded 15,000 different ways.
Please stop your Amiga bashing, if Amiga users want to read about the Atari
Falcon then they will view the Atari nets. 

 If any Amiga users agree with what I have said and these users continue
with their Amiga bashing, then I invite you to post some information about
the 'AA' chipset, the new Amigas ect. in the Atari Usenet conferences.
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #8947  I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September -- NOT!
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:12:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.105449.22906@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.055043.27280@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>>
>>Oh, and the other little detail I don't know is how much they'll 
>>cost and in what configurations.
>
>I was going to try and guess the prices but it is too difficult as the
>overpriced 040 3000T has made estimations impossible.  Hopefully the 
>040 3000T really is just something stupid C= have done and not an
>indication of prices of the new machines.

Here's a positive side to the A3000T pricing - maybe C= need a bout of
stupidity from time to time, and this gives them a chance to get it out of
their system...  Well, we can hope it's a hiccup, anyway.

>As an aside, do we know for CERTAIN that the 040 3000T still has the
>ECS chipset?  Does the C= ad mention anything in that regard?

What do you expect - a line like "Includes new chipset which current software
and operating system cannot use at no extra cost!"?  Really, if they did
have AA chips, acting in ECS mode only (since they come with V37 ROMs), would
Commodore tell anyone?  I don't seem to remember them telling anyone they had
HD floppies, so the track record isn't good.

Anyway, it's pretty unlikely that they'd be using AA - the pinout's different
to ECS, so they'd need a new PCB layout.  If they were doing that anyway,
they could have put the 040 on the motherboard, instead of just leaving the
030 off the current one and plugging in a cpu board.

Of course, if anyone's bought one of these suckers, we could just ask them to
take a peek inside...  But who'd buy one at that price?


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:37:30 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila) writes:
>
>>DIG.  
>Coming soon to an Amiga near you (Kickstart/WB 3)
>

We'll see how all current applications work with it.

>
>>A graphics system that supports splines, 
>huh?
>

Curves constructed by control points.

>
>>paths, 
>What?
>

Complex graphical objects.  OS/2's Gpi has the ability to remember graphical
objects and render them with one call, or even use the graphical object
as a clipping area.

>>
>>non-rectangular clipping, 
>So?? Like you can't do that here!
>

Oh, you can do that on an Amiga?  OK, what Amiga graphics calls would you
make to draw some scaled text using an ellipse as a clipping region?

>>
>>2-D transformations, 
>jeeezzz... c'mon, give me a break.
>

Looks like the AmigaDOS programmers took a lot of those while they were
creating the graphics library :-)

>>
>>Adobe scalable fonts, 
>We already have CG font support.
>

Is it comparable to Adobe?  Does AmigaDOS have Postscript font technology
built in?

>
>>Queues.  
>We can add those easily.
>

You can add a lot of things easily, but then AmigaDOS would take up more
RAM and disk space than it does now.  RAM and disk space is what this
discussion is about.

>>
>>Binary compatibility with DOS and Windows executables.
>why the hell would we want that?!? We're precisely trying to escape it
>and you bring it up. How silly can you get?
>

The question was, "Why does OS/2 take up so much RAM and disk space?"  The
answer was, "Among other things, it's because it includes support for DOS
and Windows applications."  Whether or not you want that is totally
irrelevant.

Besides, why are you "trying to escape" DOS/Windows compatibility?  Do you
already have it?  Are you saying that you wouldn't want companies like Lotus,
Borland, WordPerfect, etc.  writing software for the Amiga?  How silly can
you get?

>
>-Gus
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Falcon030 is there ..
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:20:56 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

<assorted semi-official sounding claims about the Falcon deleted, as
 well as a few counter-points (flames) from an Amiga fan>

Fine write up.  I liked it.  It sounded like the kind of stuff I've
heard in official Atari pamphlets and catalogs.

But why, oh why, cross-post to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy?  Let's start a
pool.  My bet is that the resultant flame war from this article will
persist well into September.  I'll put $1 on Sept. 5 as the first day
free of Falcon/Amiga arguements from the post.  Any other takers?

Kidding, of course, about the gambling.  But this has the makings of
another  shitty flame war.  And college is starting back up for people
now.  Lots of drooling freshman who just figured out 'rn' and will want 
to fuel the flames.  Great.  I can hardly wait...


-- 
      +--------------------------------------------------------+
	   John Thaanum          thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu
	"A better tomorrow takes your best today..."  -Triumph
      +--------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy