From: koumis@husc4.harvard.edu (Anthony Koumis)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college
Subject: Re: Fraternities
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:13:39 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

I have been reading some of the fraternity debates.  First of all, I
am tired of the rational for frats as we do good service things.  YOu
do not have to join a frat (I am talking about frat/frat and not this
service type of frat which was mentioned and as one poster said wasnt
part of the Greek system at her school) to have a blood drive etc.

Good deed doing seems to be a post-hoc rationalization for an organization
under attack for other reasons.

What I find worrisome about frats is the collective/ groups behavior
problem.

What I mean is, when I was an undergrad the school I was at had mostly
co-ed by room dorms.  However, they did have a few co-ed by floor
dorms.  Well, the eventually abolished the all male floors b/c they
did way high damage to the floors as comp[ared to all female floors and compared
t co-ed floors.

The point is that often frats (as well as other organizations) foster
a group mentality that often does not have the most shall we say 
redeeming facets.  Hence, frats problems vis a vis women etc.

For instance, at my Undergrad college a group of women "Take Back
the Night" marchers decided to have a march through the Quad where
all the frats are.  As they marched protesting what they perceived
as sexist behavior etc. in frats and elsewhere, they were met
by frat members chanting R-A-P-E.

Not very enlightening.

But I would bet that if on another day, and speaking individually with frat
members most would say rape was terrible.  That they thought that no
one should force themselves on a woman, etc.

But in a group mentality, not-so-hot attitudes are accepted and
condoned.

ANother example, a bunch of frat members at my undergrad college
got in trouble b/c it was discovered that they would sit outside
the frat houses and as women walked by would hold up signs to
their frat buddies rating the passing by women on a scale of 1 to 10.

This brings me to a story:  A female friend of mine worked one summer
doing highway construction (she was an engineer supervisor). One day
she was wearing shorts and one of the guys said to her "Hey, those
shorts aren't short enough."  My frined said to him "DO you have a 
daughter", the guy said "yes" and my friend asked how old and he said 17. 
So my friend said "would you want someone saying that to her?"  The
guy admitted sheepishly that he would not.

Individually, some frat guys would say that if some guy tried rating
their girlfriend as she walked by, "watch out slimbag."

My point is that frats often condone and accept and help condition
behavior that often is considered offensive and sexist.

An individual can be nice by himself.  So can a frat guy but often the
whole entity is what is the problem.  We are looking at the effect  of
an institution not the effect of a few nice guys by themselves.

HIgher education is supposed to help us expand our intellect and hopefully
help question the things around us.  

One sorority member told me that she loved living in a sorority b/c
when she had a bad day she knew she could go home to 40 friends.

oh boy.

i just hope all the friends were individuals who thoguht for themselves
and were free from group norms etc.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.college