HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Arrogance in r.m.bluenote (was Re: r.m.bluenote --> ...)
Date: 3 Oct 92 15:18:27 GMT
Organization: Human Communication Research Center
In-reply-to: singh@julius.cs.uiuc.edu's message of 1 Oct 92 10:05:19 GMT

In article <SINGH.92Oct1040519@julius.cs.uiuc.edu>, Rajendra Singh (rs) writes:

>>>>> On 27 Sep 92 23:48:57 GMT, rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) said:
rsk> Secondly, you would have had no problem finding the newsgroup if you
rsk> had read the postings in news.announce.newusers, which ALL new Usenet
rsk> users should read, and all users should be familiar with.

rs> This is an example of the arrogance 

This isn't arrogance it is simply idealism. It ignores the fact that
the net is full of clueless news administrators. It shouldn't be
possible for people to start reading news without reading n.a.n.

However, in the real world we have a huge swarm of new people every
year who have no idea what the network is (eg suprised when people on
the other side of the world get irritated at them for behaving as if
it is a site-local system) let alone how to find out what goes on where.

Add to that the usual proportion of really clueless people (eg those
who will not even bother to _ask_ where to find a blues group) and you
get the net we all know and love.

Film at eleven.
--
rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk			_O_
					 |<
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Starting an alternative medicine newsgroup
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:45:52 GMT

In <1992Oct6.042532.14365@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.035705.9914@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:
>>But there really is a need for a separate newsgroup
>>where health care consumers who are interested in alternative therapies
>>can talk about those therapies without creating or receiving a lot of
>>antagonism.

>That won't happen until you pry my cold fingers from the keyboard... <snarl>

Allow me to qualify my statement; what I really meant was "a separate
newsgroup where health care consumers who are interested in alternative
therapies can talk about those therapies without creating or receiving a
lot of antagonism >about posting in an inappropriate newsgroup< such as
sci.med."

In an alternative health newsgroup, though, I'd welcome informed and
intelligent on-topic criticism.

-- 
Peter Kaminski
kaminski@netcom.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jvbutera@grad04.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:57:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.034513.547@hubcap.clemson.edu> rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:
*I have two problems with rec.marching.whatever:
*
*1)  I don't think marching is a large enough topic to just the creation
*of a new hierarchy just off of rec.  

Quite agreed in this point.

*2)  I *like* stressing that marching can be an art form.  I don't want
*it to be confused with military marching, etc. 

Also agreed.  It is an art, not merely a bunch of people running around.

*What does the length of the groups name really have to do with it?

I made this point awhile ago. Once you subscribe to a group, you don't have 
to type the name each time you read.

*I *do* feel that by including drumcorps we may be alienating other
*people that could be active participants in the group.  If the traffic
*becomes unbearably heavy, then we can consider splitting the group into
*WGI, MBA, DCI and DCA, etc. 
*
*Later,
*Bob

My name (as others) would be:

rec.arts.marching.XXXXXXXX

Where XXXXXXX could be

drumcorps
hs-bands
college-bands
winterguard

Etc.

*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
*-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
*-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


-- 
Jeff Butera            DISCLAIMER: I claim absolutely nothing.
Math Graduate Student
N.C. State University    "Still looking for a witty quote." 
jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu                           -Brad Halls
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 13:09:07 MST
From: Allen French <ICSAFF@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Arrogance in r.m.bluenote (was Re: r.m.bluenote --> ...)
 <92275.114651KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu>

I think r.m.bluenote is a good group, but I think there is a certain
snobbishness as manifested by the comments about not caring whether
new users find the group, and the loyalty to the cute name 'bluenote,'
even though it is obviously not a good, clear title.

I think if all groups felt the same way, there would be all these cute
names and everyone would have trouble finding/remembering what each
group is all about. It is only by looking at r.m.bluenote in isolation
that people are able to rationalize keeping the name. I like the name,
but I think it should be changed for something clearer.

What is the subject of the CFV: the formation of r.m.blues? I am for it
although I too like both jazz and blues. Allen
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: acgd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (andrew.charles)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.jazz
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:40:08 GMT

Despite my sentimental attachment to bluenote I think the split is probably
a good idea. Based on past experience, a split will probably increase the
total amount of traffic on the two (new) groups. Since r.m.b has generally
had a high "signal to noise" ratio, more traffic would be good.

On the other hand, I suspect that even if there isn't much "crosstalk" about
jazz and blues on r.m.b, there is a lot of "cross-listening" among the
readership (*I* would certainly end up reading both groups). However, even
if true, this isn't a sufficent reason not to do the split (as R. Shapiro
and others have argued).

My 2 cents worth,

Andrew Charles
acgd@ihlpl.att.com

p.s. The whole discussion of border cases in classification is kind of fun.
Here are a couple more to think about:

	- Western Swing (e.g. Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys)
	- "composed jazz" (e.g. "Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano")
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.marching
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:59:10 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <1992Oct1.195633.3303@oclc.org> hch@oclc.org (Curtis Hunter) writes:
>In article <BvEFns.F7I@csn.org> pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt) writes:
>>
>>Typically, the first hierarchy of names under rec describe major
>>sub-categories of groups: sports, arts, music, games. WRT your example of
>>music, there are approximately 20 groups under music.
>
>  Exactly, there are groups under music, but why is music not under arts?  Is
>music not a form of art?

I'll answer a more general question: why aren't the news groups ordered in the
"orderly" fashion?

Because News groups, and USENET itself, did not come into existence in an
orderly fashion. It's kind of like the planning for highways and cities.  In
the deep dark past, there was not a whole lot of planning.  Nothing fits and
works perfectly, but, amazingly enough, people get by. Today, when additions
are proposed to our cities or highways or our News groups, we try to plan them
out a little bit more. Have them make as much sense as possible in the
face of some chaos.

To answer your question specifically: you may be right -- maybe all the music
groups belong under rec.arts. That's not the way it happened originally. But
the fact that there's an inconsistency in the naming hierarchy of news groups
is not a justification to plan the addition of new groups with an appropriate
amount of deliberateness.

>Why should it be under arts when there are many other groups that are
>considered arts not under arts?  Where would you place *.music.new-age?
>Under rec.arts or rec where it is?  Why are there other groups that do not
>follow this convention?  An example - rec.aquaria.  Where should it be and
>why did it get placed directly under rec?  Possibly because it either didn't
>fit anywhere else or it fit in too many places?

The fact that there are inconsistencies -- possible "mistakes" -- in the
placement of other groups is not a justification for us to place our group
haphazardly in the hierarchy. People will judge if we chose the placement for
our group well; if we do not, we may not get our group.

I have read this and your previous posting, Chris. What I saw was descriptions
of the inconsistencies in the USENET naming hierarchy. What I didn't see was
the reason that having ".arts" in the name is grating on your nerves. Could
you address that in a posting?

--phil
From: meindert@inducom.nl (Meindert Kuipers)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.sys.vmebus
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:58:20 GMT
Organization: Inducom Systems BV, Oss, Netherlands

>>3- One person recommends that the charter of the newgroup be expanded to
>>    include other buses related to VMEbus, such as Futurebus+.
>>    Additional discussion on this point is encouraged.  
> 
> I suggest to open this newsgroup to all open busses. In particular to all
> busses which are discussed under the auspices of the VITA and ESONE
> commitees: VME, VXI, CAMAC, Futurebus+, SCI, ...

Good idea! But how about the various mezzanine busses? A lot of users use
M-modules, Sbus boards and other piggybacks which are not only used on VMEbus
boards but also on some other open system busses. Note that the VITA does
have a mezzanine mini-specification and more or less supports these busses.
Should we call the newsgroup comp.sys.open_bus or comp.sys.VITA or something
similar?

--
Meindert Kuipers             PO Box 627, NL 5340 AP  OSS      +-----+
meindert@inducom.nl          Phone: (31)4120-41922            |  o  <
Inducom Systems BV           Fax:   (31)4120-22640            |  INDUCOM SYSTEMS
******  Specialists in OS-9, VMEbus and G-64                  +-----+

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Subject: Re: RESULT: sci.virtual-worlds.apps passes 133:8
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:46:30 GMT


I appreciate Joel's and others concerns regarding bending of the
guidelines.  But even in a court of law motive counts for some-
thing, and there was no motive for me to prematurely post the
count for sci.virtual-worlds.  That the count became public 
through inadvertence seems to count for nothing.

Hey, I believe in reasonable rules to guide human conduct.  I
also know, as someone who wrote laws for application in the real
world, that laws (guidelines, whatever you call them) are neces-
sarily incomplete and require interpretation.  We have no court
here.  However, I do respect David Lawrence's thoughtful sugges-
tion to revisit the situation through a revote -- although the
process is a bit more chancy, people having once voted maybe not
doing so again under the misapprehension that it's already done.

I accept blame for making a mistake.  Whether that mistake 
warrants dedicating bandwidth and the putting on ice of five
co-moderators (who may find other things to do in a month) is
another.

Bob Jacobson
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
From: jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson)
Subject: RFD: rec.arts.comics.tv
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:34:17 GMT

This is a (well, not exactly formal) Call for Discussion of the formation
of a new newsgroup to handle discussion of the intersection of comic books
and television. Such a group would fit into the current r.a.c hierarchy,
and has precedent (ref. rec.arts.sf.tv) in a similar hierarchy.

Why the new newsgroup? Well, rec.arts.comics.misc should be able to handle
the discussion, but most television-related comics discussion tends to get
lost in the shuffle. In addition, rec.arts.animation has gotten deluged
by articles on the new Batman animated series. Without creating a Batman-
only spinoff (alt.tv.btas?), the solution seems to be a r.a.c newsgroup
that encompasses a larger set of topics.

r.a.c.tv would exist for discussion of past, present, and future television
shows with some foundation in comic books. Examples include the
aforementioned Batman animated series, the Fish Police series, the now-
cancelled Flash television show, the Human Target tv show, and others.
Information on upcoming comics tv projects could also be posted to the
group.

This is NOT a call for votes, merely a request for discussion of the
possible formation of such a group. Please make sure that all followups
stay directed to news.groups. No flames please, just state why you think
the group would be a good (or bad) idea, and feel free to suggest
modifications to the proposed newsgroup.

Let the chaos begin. :)
From: F36SI@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.save.the.earth
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:07:26 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


     Hello - I am trying to start a Model UN Newsgroup.  Such a
     group will help facilitate the exchange of info between
     Model UN groups around the world.  If interested, please
     post to news.announce.newgroups where I hope to start a
     discussion of the topic so as gauge what kind of support
     there is.  I will call it talk.politics.model un.  Hope to
      get your support soon.
Matt
Subject: Model UN Newsgroup

         Hello - I am trying to start a Model UN newsgroup.  Such
         a newsgroup will help facilitate the exchange of info
         between MOdel UN groups around the world. I am starting a
         discussion on news.announce.newgroups - please post there
         if in favor of it.  I will call it talk.politics.model un
         so that we will be all over the net.
                         Matt
From: natarsu@mse.ogi.edu (N. Sukumar)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: TT newsgroup
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:36:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43459
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering


	Yup! Here's another YES for the TT newsgroup.
Am moving to Vancouver, WA, next week.  Any TT-action
out there or even in Portland-area ?  Would like to
regain my lost touch ;-)

-suku.
--
N. Sukumar                   Home Phone: (503)-690-3097
Department of MS&E           Work  "   : (503)-690-1121 (X7451)
Oregon Graduate Institute      ****** BLAZERS IN 1993 ******
From: quigley@boston.sinet.slb.com (Joe Quigley)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.sport.fencing
Keywords: fencing, foil, epee, sabre
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:12:30 GMT
Reply-To: quigley@boston.sinet.slb.com (Joe Quigley)
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies CAD/CAM Division


A friend in the office told me that fencing was getting some discussion,
but I missed the dialogue.  Is there anyone still interested in starting
a new group regarding fencing?

If it does not get enough interest for a news group, are there any
USFA or IFE fencers out there that would like to open a dialogue via
news or Internet directly?
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
From: whc2993@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Reply-To: whc2993@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:22:29 GMT

There is not near the amount of blues traffic as there is jazz in this group.
I am 300% in favor of creating a seperate group for blues.  It is definately
worth a try.  If there isn't enough support it will never make a call for
votes.  Since I started reading this group 6 months ago I've haven't run into
any notes that really combined the subject of blues and jazz.  

							



********************************************************************************
"The blues is a low down achein' chill"  Robert Johnson
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.fishing
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton)
Subject: Re: rec.fishing
Organization: Organization
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:19:10 GMT

In article <BvI2nB.xu@animal.er.bell.ca> rpark@stam.bell.ca writes:
>In article <BvDwE6.AKK@agora.rain.com>, robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton) writes:
>|> 
>|> 
>|>   What happened to rec.fishing?
>|> 
>It got RECked.
>-- 
>Richard Park	


  What does that mean?

Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.religion.kibology,alt.config
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: RFD Alternative Medicine
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:42:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.181039.3224@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>No, I think "alt.medicine" is perfect. That will place it right where it
>belongs, next to "alt.alien.visitors" and "alt.kibology".

I humbly second Mr. Sheaffer's call for the creation of alt.kibology.

							-- K.


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: oliverm@nevada.edu (Moises Oliveira )
Subject: comp.sys.next.bugs, an abuse/waste of resources.
Organization: Organization? Ha, don't make me laugh
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:49:43 GMT

lusty@lusty.tamu.edu (Diana Kae Stanley) says,
> CALL FOR DISCUSSION
> .....
> With the release of version 3.0 of NeXTStep has come a rash of bug
> reports, as would be expected with any major software upgrade.
> This group will provide a forum for discussion of new bugs and
> a resource for those looking for bug fixes and workarounds.

But how many of these reports are REAL bugs, and not just people
quick to post of the trouble they have. 

With the release of version 3.0 of NeXTSTEP has many users are finding
that their old tricks do not work, as some features have changed in
their implemenation.  

Take a look in csn.sysadmin and csn.misc, and you will see quite a few posts
about "fast find" being broken in 3.0.  It's not broken, it's just changed.
It now expects allows (and expects) regular expressions.

> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) adds,
> I'd like to see a master bug list kept for confirmed bugs
> reported in this proposed newsgroup.  The list could be posted
> once a week or so.  It could include work-arounds as well.


Is the change in "fast find" a BUG?  Would you list it as one? I'm not
asking you personally Nathan, I ask it only to open people's eyes to 
what they are proposing.  The simple fact is, that any attempt by csn.bugs
to categorize, list, and verify bugs is flawed.  You (again that's a generic
you), do not have source, and without a lot of dissambley, will be hard
pressed to actually be able to say "X, Y, and Z" are all bugs.

> Since NeXT doesn't release it's bug list, this newsgroup
> would be quite handy.

The frustration is that you (another generic you) and I know that NeXT 3.0
has bugs.  We've found them, we've reported them, we've seen them ignored.
If we want to see an actual listing of major bugs and the associated
workarounds, we can't do it without the support of NeXT.

I too believe that the tracking of bugs would provide great support to
NeXT users.  But csn.bugs will quickly turn into a gripe session rather
than any serious attempt to provide a public list of NeXT bugs.  It would
end up with each user /developer grinding their ax on what they see as
NeXT's biggest bug.

If the goal is to provide a comprehensive list of known bugs and their
workarounds, I would suggest a differnet approach, preferably one not
involving news. Or if news, then the use of a moderated group.

Methinks the moderator would get awfully tired of telling people, "Didn't
you read the csn.bugs List/FAQ ?"

Or better yet, put the pressure on NeXT to cooperate.

Xref: sparky news.groups:18579 rec.music.bluenote:7549
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: r.m.bluenote --> r.m.jazz + r.m.blues (was: rec.music.jazz)
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:33:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Oct1.041938.23134@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo) writes:

>You've made the point that John Coltrane did not play much blues.

Who made this point?? I guess I better throw away my cd called "Coltrane
Plays the Blues"........

-r
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dickenjd@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (DICKENJD)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.comics.tv
Followup-To: news.groups
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.103417.24729@news.acns.nwu.edu>, jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson) writes...
>This is a (well, not exactly formal) Call for Discussion of the formation
>of a new newsgroup to handle discussion of the intersection of comic books
>and television. Such a group would fit into the current r.a.c hierarchy,
	A better idea would be to establish a newsgroup for, not only
the comic/tv intersection, but the comic/motion picture one as 
well.
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD rec.autos.antique
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:38:59 GMT
Organization: Vpnet Public Access

In article <1992Sep26.133720.2751@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>
>I'm a little unsure just what the discussion accomplishes, beyond informing
>people about the (potential) imminent creation of said group.

    It's the rules.  Besides, I've made certain modifications to the
    proposed charter as a result of some suggestions I've read here.

>Does this discusion lead to a concrete definition of the charter?        

    Yup.

>Well anyways, I was wondering if there was sufficient interest in european
>cars (antiques), because I suggest that the cars be limited to north-
>american made cars. (Don't flame me, it's only a suggestion!  :)

    No flambe; there's enough space for discussion of cars made on all 
    five continents here.  Judging from the traffic in alt.autos.antique,
    there will not be enough people posting to justify a second or
    third nesgroup at this time.

>With the topic of old cars and emissions, would it be fair game to discuss
>environmentaly friendly modifications (like  TB-fuel injection, electronic
>ignition, cat converters)?

    I suppose so, but we purists are gonna nail you to the wall on that
    one.

>Also, would alt.autos.antique be killed if the rec group is formed?

    That's generally the game plan.

>Hey, it would be cool if this was the start of a hierarchy like
>rec.autos.antique.gm, rec.autos.antique.chrysler, etc.

    Post, post, post! :-)

--
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Newsgroups: news.groups
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.sport.fencing
Reply-To: farrow@fido.Colorado.EDU
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:57:10 GMT

Hey, I'll vote for the group either as rec.fencing or rec.sport.fencing.
Doesn't matter to me what you call it.

Now if I can only graduate, get a life, and find time to fence again!

Scott

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Scott Farrow - Student Programmer & Operator, Computing & Network Services
University of Colorado at Boulder, (303) 492-4428 ,farrow@spot.colorado.edu, 
HATE is not a family value. - Vote NO on Amendment #2.