From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Coren
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 16:25:57 GMT

>Article 2522 of alt.child-support:
>From: czeigler@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Coren Zeigler)
>Subject: Parents

	My purpose here is not to flame.

>I posted to this group a couple of weeks ago and boy did I ever get a
>response. I touched a lot of peoples emotions from my post. I didn't intend
>to be callous or uncaring as some people thought. I was just asking a 
>question and was not aware that in order to not be flamed I had to tell
>all of the details surrounding the question. That was my first post, FYI.
>
>I am a female, aged 19 years old, a student at the University of Oklahoma,
>majoring in radio-tv-film. My father is not paying my tuition for school,
>nor have I or my mother asked him too. 
>
>Up until last summer I had not seen or heard from my father in 10 (yes ten)
>years. For some reason when I was eight years old he decided that he did
>not want to have anything to do with me or my younger sister. It may have
>been my mother's doing. I don't know. All's I know is that I was without
>a father for 10 years and it hurt. I'm the one that got in touch with him
>last May. It caused a *LOT* of problems within my family. My parents had
>a very bitter divorce. There was no custody batttle over us, however. My
>father did not want us. It hurt but Mandy and I got used to it and dealt with
>it. 

	Now let me tell you *my* story, since you're new.  (Everyone else
	can go have a coffee).  My son is now 14 1/2.  After my divorce
	in the early 80's, my ex told me basically to stay out of her life.
	She made seeing my son enough of a pain that I decided it wasn't
	worth the pain, for my son in particular.  (I was also younger
	and parenthood meant something different)  That also included
	money.  There was an exisitng order, but I thing she felt like
	if she didn't take my money, she didn't owe my visitation.

	So several years go by.  I meet my present wife.  Our 9th
	anniversary is april 9th (2 days).  3 months before the wedding
	I get a summons to court.  Nice congratulations!  So I have to
	pay $60/week.  $40/wk original, and $20 arrears.  We struggled.
	It actually motivated me go go to night school. (Which *I*
	paid for my self). So I do night school.  We buy a house in
	87'. A dump that it took me 2 1/2 years to renovate, and
	$15,000.  All because of child support. In the midst of renovating
	tax time came one year.  I'm getting $1300 back.  And I need
	it for the renovation.  The IRS returns my form.  I cannot
	claim my som as a deduction anymore.  I re-write the return.
	I'm now getting about $850 because I loose the deduction.
	Also, I am in the midst of negotiation with the court by mail.
	I kept track, and my arrears are all paid up.  They admit it.
	I can reduce my payment to $40/week.  I get another letter from
	the state.  They have attached my tax return due to "arrears
	owed".  It took them 6 months to admit I was right.  Except
	they gave me about $600 instead of $850, with no explaination.

	So we finally have our house, I finish school, and I finish working on
	the house.  My payment is down to $40/week. And our life is 
	taylored so my wife can have our own kid, and she can stay home.
	(She still teaches night school part-time).  Our baby is
	born.  (Sept 12, 1989.  On *my* birthday)  Everyone is happy.

	In March 1990, I hear through the grapevine that my ex called
	my sister/parents.  My son wants to see me.  He's 12 1/2.
	I haven't seen him in 10 years.  We meet over Easter at my
	parents house (neutral territiory).  Everything is happy,
	quiet, etc.. I mention maybe we can go fishing sometime.  He
	asks for my phone #.  I write "Alan" instead of "dad".

	The next phone call I get basically states that somebody was
	hurt of mad or something because I wrote "alan". Keep in mind
	that *NOBODY* had ever called me dad.  My daughter was too young.
	Next I was told, "Don't you think that 3 months is a little
	long before you see him again?"

		Anyway, what's the bottom line?  I get the heave ho!
	10 years later these people show up and expect me to be 
	looking at my watch waiting for them.  I've got a life!  A
	good one.  But all of a sudden the rules change.  This kid
	is a stranger. His mother even has him officially going by
	her maiden name. All this is an intrusion into my life.
	I did my work, built my house, and have a new baby. And now I'm 
	supposed to divide myself for this?  Bullshit!  A family is exactly 
	that.  I have 3 members in mine now.  And he has his.  "Family" 
	involves bonding. It involves when my daughter comes in every morning
	to lay in bed with us. It involves when I slap her for being
	fresh.  It *DOES NOT* involve coming over every few weeks/months
	for a sleepover.  Maybe you should look at the situation in that
	manner.  Maybe your father just wants to be left alone.

	And from a personal viewpoint, when I see my son, all I can
	see is my ex, the mistakes I've made,  the bad times, and
	the money that goes out every week which takes away from
	my family.  But that's why I play the game.  For *my*
	family.  I need to keep my ex happy. And if an occasionaly
	weekend with my son will keep hom off her back, which will
	keep her off *my* back, then it's a small price to pay.
	
	From an overall perspective, your situation is "opposite" mine.
	You saw your father in the early years, and not the latter.
	But you are in a position now, like I was 2 years ago.  And
	the point to some extent is, "why bother". I don't know what
	your father has against you or your family.  But doesn't his
	opinion count?  I don't want to say anything blunt to my son.
	But he's all gung ho.  I wounder if when he sees someone he
	likes, in general, if he pulls the "fatal attraction" routine
	on them, like you seem to be inclined to.  That's what I feel
	like driving home to him.  Are people REQUIRED to associate
	with you?  Do you feel good about barging in on someone who
	doesn't want you around?  It irritates the shit out of me!
	And I generally like to be with people who want me there.

>I agree with Aaron (?) who said that children need their fathers. I missed
>out a lot because I didn't have one. I talk to my father about once every
>2 weeks now. My sister still refuses to have any contact whatsoever with
>him. 

	Would it be ok for your father to force himself on her?

>I am not telling people this story for want of sympathy, as I am sure many
>of you will think. I am telling this so parents will have the view point
>of a child who was put through sheer hell because of selfishness of her
>parents. 

	I am telling you this so you can understand the "adult"
	dynamics of the situation.  Would there be more hell if
	your father and mother were together fighting like cat's &
	dogs?

>My father does not pay child support for me anymore. He cut me off
>the minute I hit 18. Whoever commented on that was correct. 

	That was me.  Hence my sig. "tick-tock".
	

>I am trying to build some sort of relationship with my father. It is hard.
>I know it will take lots of time, patience and understanding. 

	Why?

>I did not ask for help for my mom out of despite for my dad. I did it
>to help my mom, simple as that. I don't imagine he would try to get
>out of paying but you never know. My mom is a teacher with one kid
>in college, soon to be two next fall. 

	My wife (B.A.) and her brother (Phd.) put themselves through
	school totally.  Coming from an intact, financially coherent
	family.  *I* put myself through night school, starting when
	I was 25. And most/all of the people here at MIT do it themselves,
	too.  Get a job like all of them did (and (*I* did).

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:20:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Help on child support issues?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA