From: davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (David Schwantner)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:53:46 -0800
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <3110@contex.contex.com> liz@marvin.contex.com (Elizabeth Cyr Jones) writes:
>In article <25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
>>I'm not trying to tell you to spank your kids.  Don't tell me not
>>to spank mine.
>
>Pretty good job of backpedaling, Dave. Doesn't it make you wonder about the
>merits of alternatives to spankings if practically everyone in this
>group disagrees with you? 
>
(useless and abusive comment not followed by a ":-)" deleted)

I think, from the articles that have flowed so far, that the split is more
like 70% against spanking (with some of them maybe allowing it for some reason)
and 30% for spanking having some regular place in child training. This is far 
from "practically everyone". (I bet you believe the media that Clinton won
by a lanslide :-) :-)). What I am starting to conclude is that a persons
view of spanking is related to their view of authority. (this is not a perfect
corelation, but pretty tight). Those that believe that (for whatever reason,
either theological or whatever) parents arethe main agent of authority in their
childs lives also tend to believe in spanking. Those that beleieve the child
is mainly responsible for its own authority tend not to believe in spanking. 
There is also another less tight corelation between peoples experience as
a child and their views in this case. But this corelation is somewhat two 
sided. If we had a very bad experience, and we are trying to counteract or
live beyond it, we will not believe in spanking. But, if our parents used
spankning to train, discipline or punish (or abuse) us, we may just carry that
on like we do most of our experiences from our parents which we pass on toward
our children. 

To me, though, the real issue is one of resposibility and authority. As I
am under authority, I have been given responsibility for my kids, and
authority over them as long as they are children, and have been given a frame-
work for how to express that authority. I (personally) don't like to be in
a place of authority, but now that I have kids I am there whether I like it
or not. And, since I love my children deeply, I will then carry that 
authority out, governed by love always, always ready to humble myself before
my kids, and using the means of training that I ahve been given, while always
seeking new ways to live this relationship out with each of my kids as unique
individuals needing love and training (training being a subset of the love)
shown in unique and sometime new ways.

Thank you for everyone (even those I stringly disagree with) for helping me to 
think through these issues more!!

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Newsgroups: misc.kids