From: lro@YP.melb.bull.com (Liam Routt)
Subject: Re: Judging Role-Play
Keywords: roleplay, tournaments, judging
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Australia.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:53:57 GMT

    First of all, Tonio, let me appologize for assuming that you hadn't been
involved in the organizing or running of games. I meant no slight. Your
arguments have the tone of a person who has been overlooked at too many
conventions, and really wanted to win prizes. I guess I was blinded by
that. Now that I've read a bit more of your point of view, I'll try to discuss
this a bit more clearly.

tal691@huxley.anu.edu.au (Tonio Loewald) writes:

> lro@YP.melb.bull.com (Liam Routt) writes:

> >    The players we spoke to, and there were a large number, felt that the
> >awards, whether they got them or not, gave them something to aim for, and
> >made a point for what would otherwise have been an unconnected weekend of
> >too much roleplaying. The point was that you have to have a reason for going
> >through it all, even if you do not achieve the award, it is there as an
> >ultimate goal.

> I take it that they don't role-play outside of tournaments, because
> there's no ultimate goal?

    There are many goals in roleplaying. Not only to different people have
very different personal goals, but I think that it is clear that those goals
change in different situations. The goal for me, outside of a convention, is
one of either enjoyment, or the expereince of new ideas (both as a player and
as a GM). But neither of those goals work entirely in a convention setting.
    Enjoyment: Playing for hours on end for three days (or more) is not fun.
It is tiring. It is often loud, and often frustrating (dealing with the
upleasant characters and scenarios that are out there, not matter which side
of the table you are on). Sure the basic idea is fun, and there are even fun
parts, but I'd never exhaust myself that way _just_for_fun_. That's not the
way I enjoy myself.
    New ideas: Sure there are new ideas, but the format of a convention does
not really allow you to enjoy or appreciate them. If I want to actually get
the feel for a new idea I want to attack it when I have plenty of time to
examine it. Rushing through it too fast, and without a chance to sit down
and work it through, is not the way to really appreciate a new idea.
    So for me, at least, the goals of a convention have to be quite different
from the goals I have when I am not a convention.


> I've always enjoyed meeting people at conventions, and I think that
> such meetings go a long way to fulfil the supposed objectives of
> tournaments (spreading new ideas, etc.).

    Whose supposed objectives are those? Yours? They are not mine.
    If I want to meet people, I will do that in a more relaxed atmosphere, and
one where I will actually get a chance to know them, not a hectic weekend.


> >    We do not want to judge roleplaying, but I think that in the artificial
> >organization of a tournament, you really are bound to do so.  Roleplaying is
> >not competitive by nature, but tournaments are.

> Conventions aren't. Perhaps "tournaments" is the wrong thing to call them.
> You're just using a word that has been borrowed from wargaming (which in
> turn laid the groundwork for games convention organisati) and then 
> are taking the baggage that comes with that word and saying that this
> should define our objectives. If you use a neutral word, such as
> "Role-Playing Meet", this argument suddenly is revealed to be hollow.

    OK, nice point. But flawed, from my point of view.
    First, though, I don't feel that the word tournament has to, or should,
be considered to be out of place in roleplaying. Sure it was the wargaming
crowd that started getting together to compete, but that does not mean that
the roleplaying crowd shouldn't (or more relevantly, doesn't) get together to
compete on some level.
    You have complained that most of the people arguing are not players.  Well,
I'm a player. If I want to meet new gamers, and play with them, there is no way
that I would do that at a convention. Firstly, I always play with teams of
people I know, and secondly, You do not have enough of a chance to meet people
over a weekend convention - you play with someone for a few hours, and you know
nothing about them. The only people I have come to know from conventions are
those I have seen for years on end, and then got to know outside of the 
convention.
    The getting together function of a convention seems minor to me. If I want
to meet people etc. I would go to a RPG club. Or I would call around and try
set something up with friends of people I know.
    Conventions, then, have a different function. Maybe on one level they are
a display vehicle; I am able to play through a story that someone has put time
and effort into - a story that I would not otherwise get a chance to play,
perhaps. And to take that a step further, maybe conventions allow me to play
a number of such games.
    And on that level there is no reason to have any judging at all.
    But what if the competition itself is a goal? What if the idea of comparing
yourself to others and trying to come out best is a goal?  What if that part of
the tournament actually helps one to improve one's roleplaying ability?
    I am challenged by the competition in a tournament. I may, or may not, be
actually attempting to "win" (to be better than the others who are playing),
but I am always affected by the situtation; and the effect is often good: I am
focused, I play more intently, and I play out more than I do in my regular
games. I find out things about my own abilities in that way - by pushing
myself because the situation is a competitive one. And at the same time I gain
additional information from the others who play the game - those I maybe do
not even see - because they set a standard.
    So for me, at least, the competition in a tournament is important, and is
a significant goal. And I am a pure roleplayer, not a competitive munchkin.


--
						Liam Routt
	"Murder by Pirates is Good!"		Senior Software Engineer
		-The Princess Bride		Bull Information Systems
						Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Newsgroups: aus.games.roleplay