HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Subject: The Syrian security point of view
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:22:19 GMT

I received the following email.  It illustrates a point often made to justify 
the Syrian incursion in Lebanon: that of security.  The author gave me 
permission to post it anonymously to scl.  I give no further comments.  

bassem


To answer your questions and Mr. Guailluame's; what right did france have in 
the 19230s or so of taking a very large chunck of syria (8/10 of present day 
Lebanon) and forming a new state called Lebanon. We all Know there was only a 
Mount Lebanon, not a state of Lebanon. Also Syria must have a strong presence 
in lebanon due to the following reasons:

1. I grew up in Syria in the 70s, I lived about 15 km from the the so called 
lebanese border (Tripoli). Almost every night Isreali Jets would come over the 
area I lived in through Lebanon and Bomb the Hell out of Syrian positions.

2. Lebanon have always lacked a strong position against isreali attacks on 
Syria through the Lebanese territory, and had no defense what so ever.

3. Lebanon is only about 40 km across, and Syria could not detect isreali jets 
in time to react and avoid the ditruction that took place constantly.

4. Lebanon could not stop the PLO presence in its territories and could not 
defend its self against Isreal. Lebanon's security is extremely important to 
syria's security.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad)
Subject: Re: Joke :-)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:57:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.035209.10413@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@sensors.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:
> 
> Imam Moussa Sadr's sister calls Libya to inquire about her brother.
> 
> Sadr: "Alou"
> Libyan: "Laa', shawou"
> 
> --

Even though I am not a Shi`a Muslim, I can spot that this joke is
in very poor taste. There is a large section of Lebanese who would
be offended by this joke. There is no need for this kind of humor.

Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 01:15:12 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Jul29.194216.12023@prism.poly.edu>, medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) writes:
[.....]
> THe analogy between UN/Iraq and Europe/Lebanon is not valid.
> 
> bassem
> 

Oh...Bassem.  Who controls the United Nations?
To answer this question, I refer you to the situation in Yugoslavia,
and Boutrous Ghali Vs. the British latest resoltuion and how it was passed
in the UN General Assembly.  

The Analogy is valid if you understand the International politics.
> 
> >
> >We understand that Iraq is undergoing such a process since they 
> >have lost a war, were aggresive and violated international law.
> >But what business they have to do with the Lebanese affairs?
> 
> I imagine some Lebanese (like us) lobbied them to adopt such a resolution.
> I salute the Lebanese living in Europe who got this result.
> 
> bassem
> 

While you are saluting the Lebanese who sun bathing in FRance, I salute the
Lebanese who are in Lebanon trying to make a country out of ashes, and
trying to liberate the South.

-hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:52:43 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Bassem scores again with good articles. (who is your contact man ?) :-)
We're 25 or so days away from elections. I have no idea who is running :-)

Elie.

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
From: ali@babar.inria.fr (Ali Atie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Jaber believes his lies
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:48:49 GMT
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

Mr. Jaber writes:
> To prove the Iranian sectarian
> connection of Ajami he forgot to mention that the Syrian
> President who is an Alawi ( a radical Shia Sect that conisder
> Imam Ali  as God)

>I am my self Fellah( Country dweller)

Your sick mind still secrete cheap lies, and your lousy mouth
continues to throw them onto the net. Are you paied for that ?
You're indeed doing a hard job, and you really deserve to title
yourself as Fellah with the slight difference that you do not 
harvest any fruit. 
Your ignorance about Shia beliefs and your hatred of muslims
in Iran make you imagine relations that does not exist. How could
Alawis belong to a Shia sect while the doctrine of Shia is the
Islam (pur et simple) ? 

Ali
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Brotherhood ... one more time
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:05:26 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Jul28120708@math.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu
(Naji Mouawad) writes:
>
>
>Hello Ayman,
>
>
> My camp is that of the victims. They are my true brothers and
>friends.
>
>naji.


the issue of brotherhood is not a light one.

What does brotherhood entail?

Let me take an example:
The Swedes and the Norwegians (who by the way very rarely speak of brotherhood)
are two countries that have ties that go back in history and in culture. I
would even say that between Sweden and Norway there ismore homogeneity than
there is between Lebanon and Syria.

I say this due to religion, nature, culture etc.

Yet there is no ambuguity as far as their national staus is concerned.

Norway has an embassy in Sweden, Sweden has an ebmbassy in Norway. As a student
in NOrway, I need to get a visa to entre Sweden. Not so for the residents,
since there are agreements that regulate this issue.

Even if the Norwegians re happy when the Swedes beat the Russians in ice Hockey
(even if deep inside the Norwegians wish they could beat both!) and even if the
Swedes are willing to do all they can in order to assist the Norwegians, the
two countries are independant. The peoples do not want to unite. In fact Norway
was under Swedish rule up to 1907 (if I remember excatly) The Norwegians
threatened to wage war agianst the Swedes. Even if the Norwegians did not have
a chance to win this war (excuse me Norwegians, but this is how I see it), the
Swedish King said:

  Det maasta inte vaar krig mellan vaara folk! 
                          (or something to that effect!)

that is: there should not be any war between our people.

The Swedes gave up their control over Norway that became completely
independant.

The relations between the Swedes and the Norwegians are very good.

(Yes the Swedish king may say some silly things about Norwegian seal hunters,
but we don't blame him he is Swedish!  :)   )

THey cooperate on every possible matter. Police, security matters (belive me,
it is true that the securty of Sweden is the Security if Norway! Have yuo heard
this term some place?) When the Swedes decided to make cuts in their military
bidget, the Norwegians started to get nervous.

Yes these two countries cooperate in every level.

To make my point: They two countries, THey are two nations they are two peoples
they are "brothers" if you want, but based on mutual respect and recognition.

To illustrate: The Norwegians decided that it was in the benefit of their
country to join NATO, while the Swedes did not agree. Each country decided on
its oun. This did not disturb their cooperation or their "brotherhood".

let me stop since we could continue.

I am willing to have a similar relationship with Syria, Israel, Iran, Turkey,
Saoudi Arabia, Iraq, Cyrpus, Greece, France, Marocco, Egypt.


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Khomeini (was Re: More HUMOUR!)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:05:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.145322.7158@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:

>Didn't Khomeini also ban classical music ?

No, Imam Khomeini (may he rest in peace) didn't ban
classical music (neither Western classical nor Persian
classical).  Certain types of non-classical Western
music are not banned either (instrumental, soft songs).

When I say banned, I am talking about TV & Radio broadcasts.
Private possession of tapes was not strictly regulated.

Behnam Sadeghi
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: schoolboys.gif: INFO
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:47:30 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul23.024845.8473@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) writes:
>
>I don't know whether you are quoting something or making it up.  Either way,
>your posting it is to approve of it:

I did not make it up! 

>HATE Muslims
>HATE Arabs
>HATE Muslims
>HATE Arabs
>HATE HATE HATE HATE..
>
>Don't you have something else to do than to hate?
>

Bassem, you know me better than that to say such things about me.
Or at least I thought so.

...

>If you want your Muslim compatriots to be with you to liberate our country
>from usurperers, start by respecting their believes, but I guess your mind is 
>already closed.  I feel pity for you.  May God save you from your ignorance.

Lighten up bassem. Arguing with me is not gonna change what was printed
in that book. Please note that I wanted to show the presence of 
interesting BS occasionally.

>bassem

Regards, Elie.

PS: There are a few more funny photos and a few really pretty ones
    which I am sure you'd like. 

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:26:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.151735.19053@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
(Bassem Medawar) writes:


>To know what the facts
>are: that Lebanon was one time part of a Syrian province in the Automan
>Empire, that France cut out "Le Grand Liban" from that Syrian province,
>that all Syrian governments since then has resisted Lebanon's
>independence (as I may I have done if I were in there place), that the >Assad
regime is strong enough to do something about it.

is this a fact? when did the Ottoman empire have a "Syrian" province?

When was Lebanon part of this provnince?

Ah bilaad al-s^aam?

Yes Damascus was a wilaaya, but the "borders" of this wilaaya changed with the
strength of the waly and his enemies.

The same is true for the Sanjaq of Lebanon. The Biqaa@ valley was under the
direct control of the Baab l-@aali, since it was too important to leave in the
control of the Waalis.

Syria never existed. The term Syria is a greek invention, and the term Bilaad
al-s^aam is a borrowing from this Greek terminology.

Yes Damascus was/is the most important city in the area. Naturally enough the
area could be called according to it.

THis does not mean that this area actually was "part" of al-s^aam.

Note the term: al-Maghrib al-@arabi does this imply that Lybia, Algeria, and
Tunis are part of Marocco?


While in Lebanon we had our own rulers who were Lebanese, the Waalis of
Damascus, Saida, Taraablos, Bayrut, Akka, etc. were Turks. THese came under the
rule of the Turks who controlled the whole area.

Occupiers and colonizers devide the areas they have occupied in administrative
regions that best suit the interests of these occupiers. What the people in the
region want, is another matter.


So if there are Lebanese who want to unite with Syria, please say so, and
Lebanese will have to see how to deal with the issue.


To those which such a union, all you need to do is state your wish rather than
presenting old and used up arguments as if they were historical facts.

Yet you should aslo accept that there are those who do not agree with you. 

So since there is something called the State of Lebanon, areas that want to
break away from this state and join Syria (or Israel for that sake) should do
it in an orderly manner. If there are those in your areas who do not want to
move you should find a solution that will suit every body.

Yet by default Lebanon is Lebanon.

Moreover, the "historical" Syria that we always here about, has nothing to do
with Hafez al-Assad and his criminals.


The rest of your article Bassem is impecable!

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Soverienty
Reply-To: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:04:36 GMT

Thank you Elie for a wonderful analogy (using Sweden and Norway) this is
a perfect analogy to the Syria/Lebanon debate.  To re-iterate what you, so
aptly exhibited in your post:  While there may be many connections between
Syria and Lebanon (some of them VERY recent) they are now, and should remain
two separate countries.

To anyone who has not read Elie's post:  Read it.

No e-mails please, I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks and my account will
be used by someone else while I'm gone.

Debbie Masri
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Apples vs. Oranges (Re: More polls. (Special for Hani :-)))
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 14:32:46 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Jul22.121500.13640@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:
> From the Leb-Net archives:
> --------------------------
> 
> Subject: UNICEF Poll: The parties, militias and the army
> 
> This poll comes in a serie of polls made by UNICEF and Association
> Lubnan in Lebanon during 1991-1992. This poll deals with the political
                          ^^^^^^^^^^          
> parties, militias, and that of the Lebanese army, as perceived by the
> Lebanese population. 
> 
This poll has nothing to do with the previuos "poll" you posted.
This one is so general that all numbers look alike and almost the same
in all parts of Lebanon.  

> The poll is taken from "Al Mouaten", a monthly magazine edited in
[.....]

At least the numbers and the conclusions are clear and documented.  
While the previous "poll", where exaggerartion and fabrication are
too obviuos, is nothing but a personalized version of CLAO's 
wishes catered to us in a "near-consesus" formula...

Sorry ELieM, no one will buy it...unless you provide documented results.

-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@licorice.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 19:23:13 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@licorice.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Jul26.021955.14741@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
[.........]
> >Mediterranean coast.  When we compare these idiots' mind, so confused,
> >so dark and airy within, with the lofty substantial American minds around,
> >which act rather modern, we understand how low the degree of culture to which
> ...
> 
> (I'd reconsider your last statement given the fact that the photos and
> captions are taken/written by the same people you are praising)
> 
> I repeat one more time.
> The INFOs are not necessarily my views nor are they my words.
> They reflect how the West (in particular the USA) viewed the Middle
> East in the 1930s. 
> 

If you are so "sensitive" why didn't you show a disclaimer, that
"you only showing how the US.A. views the Middle East.  I have no
doubt that your intentions just the opposite.

> You people are too touchy. While the opinions of Hani and Khaled
> are low on my list, I do care what you and Bassem have to say.
> If you want me to stop, I'll stop.
> 

Do you need someone to stop you always...I guess you need to be told
when you are behaving or screwing...A KID IS A KID...

-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Khomeini (was Re: More HUMOUR!)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:15:30 GMT

Somebody wrote:

>> If singing is not
>> allowed, probably she would not be allowed in. Even in Iran,
>> singing was allowed by Khomeini (but just for the revelution).
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Regardless of whether the last word is Qur'anic "revelation" or
the Islamic "revolution," this statement is incorrect.

>> I heard women sing for the revolution. My guess is that Khomeini's

True.

>> ban was on the musician's and singers who were close to the Shah
>> or what is considered abscene. 

Love songs are a big no no.   Non-romantic poetry, cultural, religious,
mystical, or revolutionary songs are no problem.

Somebody else wrote:

>This reminds me of a postage stamp issued recently by Iran to 
>commemorate the International Year of the Child. (It showed a
>little boy throwing a stone onto a glass with a star of David on it).

The Star of David represented Israel (not Judaisim) and the little
boy's throwing of the stone represented the intifada.  

>But then they did issue a stamp recently about Christ's ascent to heaven
>too. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:29:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.032353.13245@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ayman@eecs.umich.edu
(Ayman I. Kayssi) writes:


>Contrary to what you hear from CLAO and company, the situation on the ground
>in Lebanon suggests that the parliamentary elections will take place, in a
>"normal" atmosphere. By normal I mean similar to what the Lebanese were 
>used to, election-wise, before 1975, including all the talk about the various 
>deals between the parties and the families, and also the usual rumors about 
>how all the results were falsified, etc... 

This is not completely true. I have some talks with peo le who are in Lebanon.
THey descibed the issue as such:

    "This show of elections is like a theatre. We feel like it does not
     concern us. As far as the government is concerned, they are living a
     life of their own."


>The number of people that have already declared their intent to become 
>candidates is really amazing, and I do not think that you can label them all
>as traitors.

Ayman I hope that at least some Lebanese will want to go out of this vicious
circle that we have had as "normal". Yes there are many Lebanese that would
jump at the first chance of being elected to any public office. 
I would say that in the present situation, any one who does not act based on
the interests of the nation is a traitor.

If I am not to consider those who run as traitors, they must first show me why
they are running and how by so running they are going to serve Lebanon and the
Lebanese.

The argument that either me or my rival is one that we can not afdford
supporting or condoning. Not even tolerating.


THere is more at stake than a 'batal' or 'za@iim'. THere are people who are
opprssed, there is the occupation of a country, there are people who are hungry
etc.

etc.

>I will not address the question on what the new parliament will do regarding
>unification with Syria, as this would be pure speculation, and I will not
>assume beforehand that the elections will be dishonest. As for the presence of
>the Syrian Army in Beirut, it is not the parliament's job to extend or 
>declare an end to it, but rather, the Presidents and the Councils of Ministers
>of both Lebanon and Syria will decide on that matter.

True that the accord of brotherhood and cooperation etc. does take out the fate
of the country from the hands of the people/parliament and puts it in the hands
of Our Hrawi, Solh, and Hussaini together with Assad, Khaddam and somebody
else.

So it seems like the game is played. But Lebanon is not Syria. The rubber-stamp
parliament needs to ratify the treaties, and accept to ratify the ones to come.
(That reminds me, What do we know about the treaties that were ratified, can
someone tell me how many and what is their texts?!).

The parliament elected in 1972 in the normal way sold us out. What about one
that is elected under direct Syrian control?

>
>-Ayman
>
>

elie wardini
From: irwin@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Irwin David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Questionnaire/Survey
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:00:24 GMT
Distribution: qc
Organization: Universite de Montreal



To whom it may concern,


In order to complete a Ph.D. dissertation in the field of political science 
I must verify a certain number of propositions. To do so, I must gather data.
To gather data I must ask people to fill a questionnaire.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 |If yourself or your parents were born in a country other than Canada you| 
 |qualify as a respondent.                                                |   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wish to receive a copy of the questionnaire or further details, please 
send me a message or provide me with a postal address. You should expect the
questionnaire to arrive via Canada Post within the week. 

P.S. Thank you to those who have already accepted to participate in the
study.

Regards.

David H. Irwin

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
David H. Irwin				E-mail: irwin@ere.umontreal.ca
University of Montreal
			<<Have a Nice Day>>
B
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: guncer@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Selim E. Guncer )
Subject: Re: About vain words and music (was Re: MORE HUMOUR)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:52:49 GMT


Why did Cat Stevens stop making music after he became Yusuf Islam?
He had a message of love and peace before. Now... It's a pity..

I don't think music is forbidden in Islam.  'Ilahi's, i.e. Islamic
sufi mystical music, are among the most beautiful examples of Islamic
culture. However, the young male voice singing appears to be frowned upon.
I don't have my references for this in hand, maybe someone in netland
can help.

Selim


--
Selim E. Guncer               | Jaca negra, luna grande,
CSSER-ASU                     | y aceitunas en mi alforja.
(602)-965-4096                | Aunque sepa los caminos
guncer@enuxha.eas.asu.edu     | yo nunca llegare a Cordoba.. (FGL)
From: sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Organization: Free Lebanon
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:18:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: sioux.ctr.columbia.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Regarding slavery, there was a report on CNN about a week ago about how Arab 
men went to India to purchase female children as "brides".
The age of the children was between 12 and 16 yrs old. The price of such a 
child was around $400.

If that's not slavery, I wonder what is.

Boudi
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: druze-lady.gif: INFO
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:21:41 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Photo caption:

"A Druze Bride's Finery"

This queer hairdress, eighteen to twenty inches high, was once worn by the
women of Lebanon. Now it is rarely seen, except as a Druze bridal costume.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon