HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Subject: Re: ISLAM ON ABORTION
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:54:55 GMT

gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:

>In article <19664@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

>>I only find it puzzling that so many educated people pose indirect
>>questions like this, since they are trivially answered depending on
>>whether or not one believes that the unborn child/fetus is a clump of
>>cells or a human baby.  If we are talking about a clump of cells then
>>abortion should be restricted no more than clipping one's toenails.
>>If, however, we are talking about a human baby, then how could any
>>of the above justify killing the baby?  Because of the sins of others?
>>And just because it is less than perfect?  A lot of people with
>>``severe handicaps'' go on to have productive lives and teach us
>>all about the true value of life.  Few of them wish that someone else
>>had killed them in the womb.
>>--

Dave,

There is one question that I think is valid and that is,
"What if the life of the mother is at risk?"
To date, the only time that I have heard a scholar say that
it was ok was when it was understood that the child would
probably not survive, and if the pregnancy were carried to
term, the mother would probably not survive either.
Still, I am not a scholar nor do I play one on TV etc.
[I assume that the scholar viewed "it" as a human baby
and not just a clump of cells.]


>That's why the women should be given the choice of abortion. 
>Her choice will depend on whether she considers it as a clump 
>of cells or a life ?  Even if she considers it as a life, her 
>decision can be altered by whether she considers it as dangerous 
>to her own life or not. By dangerous, I mean it need not always 
>be in terms of physical danger. It might mean ruining her 
>whole emotional and social life which she might not want to 
>sacrifice for the sake of another life. No one should be forced 
>to sacrifice their own lives for the sake of another. That choice
>should be left up to the person. 

Gopal,

"Should" according to your opinion MAY or MAY NOT agree with what
"should" be done according to Islam--which, I believe, was the
original poster's question. Just wanted to point that out before
this degenerated into a pro-life/pro-choice debate. That said, :-)
I can take your argument to ridiculous extremes: "There are people
that I view as lower than life, and less than human [Adhvani, Shamir,
Solarz, etc]. These people have ruined my life emotionally, physically,
religiously, whatever. Ergo [I love this word don't you?] ergo,
I am morally justified in "aborting" them."  Note that I am even
making greater allowances, because I am saying that X individual
has already ruined my life, not that he/she has the potential
of ruining it.  Again, I am not a scholar--just leftovers from the
logic portion of my GMAT :-) .

-hd
From: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: A ghazal by Ada Jaafry
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:47:41 GMT
Reply-To: zafir@unssun.UUCP (Zia Zafir)
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno

In article <4178@equinox.unr.edu> zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir) writes:
>
>	baaqi na rahay paas Ada dasht-e-junooN ki
                       ^^^^
>	dil maiN agar andesha-e-anjaam hi aaey
>

 
A correction I think and also mentioned by Faheem.  He said that

it should be saakh instead of paas.

thanks Faheem

Zia Zafir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Regarding RAW-Mossad Nexus to Fight Terrorism
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 23:07:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.173309.2864@memstvx1.memst.edu> patrinr@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.220925.7256@leland.Stanford.EDU>, usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed) writes:

>> Only time will tell if suppression, or should I say counter-terrorism,
>> is the solution to problems in Kashmir, Assam and E. Punjab.  Some
>                                 ****************************
>> quarters naively feel a political resolution is necessary :-)   
>> 
>> Hum kiya jaaneiN.
>> 
>> Usman
>> 
>  and ofcourse, Sind.
>
>  Rao

Would you really cast the MQM vs. PPP vs. (much smaller) Jiye Sindh
power tussles as a separatist movement, to rival those in the 3 Indian
states?  Secession is used more as a threat to extract concessions
from central authorities, than as a serious solution for political
disenchantment.

Usman

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: return of bayt-baazi
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:09:39 GMT

Come on guys cheer up... Here is my all time favourite... brings back memories..
Yes!! guess what... Even Sindhis have memories :) :)

	baRee raushnee bakhshtai hai(n) nazar ko
	tairay gaysu'oan kay muqaddas  andhairay

	yai.....

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: fatwa of the day
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 22:32:43 GMT

	Due to global warming and the total disregard by all
religious leaders to address this problem. I in the authority vested in me 
by Dr. Abid Kemal ..............

My muslim brothers and baagees(bhabi's etc) to save energy, when going to bed
cuddle with a member of the opposite sex. And for greater savings  two.

remember it does not matter if the member is not a muslim, for such a great
service to humanity, even blondes are allowed.

sahibzada rafay khan[ when in doubt use a condom]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: m21757@mitre.org (G)
Subject: Re: fatwa for today
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:19:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.062422.18946@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
>       after the tensions in peshawar.
>         all religious tension between shia's and sunni's must cease.
>         therefore i ask my followers and brothers and bhabi's
> 
>                 all sunni men should marry shia women
>                 and all shia women should marry sunni men.
>                                                                 17:6:92
    
   So does this mean that shia men should not mary sunni women?

> 
> sahibzada rafay khan[the world for a .........]


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: asim@pak.sps.mot.com (Asim Omair)
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:45:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.181341.27875@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>Last olympics, a Pakistani won a medal in boxing, did he make it this
>time? If not, does any body know why?
>Also what other events Pakistan is competing in besides field hockey?
>There was another Pakistani who won a medal in wrestling in last olympics,
>did he make it this time?
>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca

I thought that the Pakistani won a medal in the Asian games and not the
Olympics. Can somebody confirm this ?
*****************************************************************************
SPORT     FAVOURITE TEAM/PLAYER                    |  asim@pak.sps.mot.com  |
-----     ---------------------                    | 5413 Manchaca Rd. #223 |
CRICKET : Pakistan/Imran Khan                      |    Austin, TX 78745    |
SOCCER  : Manchester United (England)/Bryan Robson |TEL#(512)-444-7076 :home|
TENNIS  : Stefan Edberg and Steffi Graf            |    (512)-891-8342 :work|
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:37:12 GMT

In article <samaddar.711671220@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:

>Yes, but nowhere is the national language spoken by a tiny minority. In most
>European countries, the younger generation UNDERSTANDS English. Will that
>justify adopting English as their national language someday? 


What's your point here Sumitro?  Are you saying that a small minority
of people speak Urdu?  Or that if the younger generation understands 
Urdu, this does not justify its adoption as a national language?
Or are you arguing against the adoption of any one language in
a multilingual environment?

Usman

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: ........where am I?.........
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:55:17 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


I got mail from a few friends inquiring where I was.......


	humm wahaN haiN, jahaN say humm ko bhi
	koee aapni khabar nahiN aati
	
	[I am there, from where
	 I do not recieve news, even of myself]

.....more simply stated, while you all enjoy
these 80s and 90s which they call summer, I
remain immersed in a killing load of coursework

....but Pakistan, Pakistanis and SCP are never
far from my thoughts.......as another, far more
sensitive and articulate than myself, had been
moved to state of his confinement......


	bujha jo rozan-e-zindaaN, tou dill yeh samjha hai
	keh tairi maang sitaarouN say bhar gayee ho gi
	chamak utThaiN haiN salaasil, tou hum nay jaana hai
	kay aab, sahar tairay rukh par bikhar gayee ho gi

	isSee sabab say koee gilla nahiN kartay
	tairay firaq meiN humm dill burra nahiN kartay

	[when the window in my cell grows dark, then I know
	 that stars have begun sparkling over your head,
	 and when the chains on my wrists reflect the
		piercing rays of the sun, then I know
	 that the bounty of morning brightness would
	 	have made your beauty even more bountiful,

	 it is for this reason, that I do not cry in
		disdain or dispair,
	 for even in my distance from you, you are near 
		me, in my heart]

.....as more perceptive minds might discern, these
thoughts are not necessarily about the SCP ;-) ........
but then "kehnay meiN kiya haarj hai!"........



ADIL [jaazbay hassool-e-rizq kay raastouN meiN kho gaaye
      khaabouN ko mairay ehdd ki taanhai lay gaaye] NAJAM
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ISLAM ON ABORTION
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:48:49 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <92043@bu.edu> khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid) writes:

>People strongly against any abortion may find these questions puzzling:
>
>1	What if your (whoever's) sister were raped and the world knew about
>	it -- would you like her to continue the pregnancy?
>
>2	What your "child" is known by tests to be seriously malformed: such as
>	serious chromosomal abnormalities leading to bodily malformation?
>
>3	Imagine your own wife to have been raped -- would you raise the
>	rapist's kid as a foster father?

I only find it puzzling that so many educated people pose indirect
questions like this, since they are trivially answered depending on
whether or not one believes that the unborn child/fetus is a clump of
cells or a human baby.  If we are talking about a clump of cells then
abortion should be restricted no more than clipping one's toenails.
If, however, we are talking about a human baby, then how could any
of the above justify killing the baby?  Because of the sins of others?
And just because it is less than perfect?  A lot of people with
``severe handicaps'' go on to have productive lives and teach us
all about the true value of life.  Few of them wish that someone else
had killed them in the womb.
--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:29:06 GMT

>Article 26214 (3 more) in soc.culture.pakistan:
>From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.caoss (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
>Subject: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
>Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:13:41 GMT
>Lines: 9
>
>Last olympics, a Pakistani won a medal in boxing, did he make it this
>time? If not, does any body know why?
>Also what other events Pakistan is competing in besides field hockey?
>There was another Pakistani who won a medal in wrestling in last olympics,
>did he make it this time?
>
>--nasir
>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.caoss

Pakistan this time is supposed to be competing in sailing(yachting), and they
did win a gold and bronze in 1984 and one silver in 1988.  There are also  
sending (at least they are supposed to): archerers, fencers and one eight-man 
rowing boat (heavy weight 8 crew -> for those in college).

Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
From: amatin@prism.poly.edu (Akbar Matin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Medals in Olympiads...
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:38:42 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York


	I guess Pakistan has won 9 medals in Olymiads so far out of which
7 are in Hockey.

	Pakistan beat Malaysia 4-1 and New Zealand 1-0 in the 25th Olympiads.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: mghayalo@uceng.UC.EDU (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: ANOTHER JOKE, no offense!
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:18:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.143342.3648@cbfsb.cb.att.com> onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>
>A Sikh newlywed couple is given a house in a village as a present.
>The village is mostly Hindu and Muslim,and they are the only Sikhs
>in the area.  Since they have just moved in, the house is mostly
>empty and bare.  
>
>So one day, the wife says:
>"Bazar ja kay ik almari thay laia!"
>
>The Sardar is busy with his own things and says:
>"Main apni fursat nal jawan ga, mennu thang na kar!"
>
>Many days go by and guests start arriving at the new couple's home, so
>the wife, who is upset by now, says:
>"Kapre saray bikar pay, thenu koee sharam nee andee"
>
>So the husband reluctantly strolls into the bazaar in the center of the
>village, walks up to a storeowner and says:
>"Pahji, ay almari kennay dee aiy"
>
>The storeowner replies:
>"Sardar-ji, thoday nal koi karobar naee chalda, thuseen aithon jao"
>
>The husband, perturbed at the reaction of the local people, decides to 
>wait a week and come back with a different look.  After one week, he
>has removed his beard and Sikh turban and grown a long moustache and
>a regular turban with a long kurta and dhothi.  He then walks into
>the same store and says:
>"Pahji, ay almari kennay dee aiy"
>
>The storeowner replies:
>"Thu phir aithay agia, mai thennu dusrian, aithon chathee nal nikalja"
>
>Again, the husband is quite perturbed and goes home very discouraged.
>But he decides to give it one more try and waits another week to yet
>come back with another different look.  A week goes by and he now looks
>like an Arab Sheikh: he has a goatee beard, a headdress, a robe, dark
>glasses and a brief case.  
>He walks up to the same storeowner and says:
>"Marhaba, Assalamualeikum Warahmatullah, ye almari kithnay ka hay?"
>
>The storeowner replies:
>"O Sardar-jiii, thusee baz nee anday, may kennee daffa thonnu dassan
>ga, thoday nal koi karobar naee chalda.  Aithon ja, verna may bakian
>noo bulandan"
>
>The Sardar gets very upset and suddenly tears off his head gear and
>shouts:
>"Thennu kiddan patha see kai may Sardar ahn"
>
>The storeowner replies:
>"Sara wuqth, thu hee es fridge noo almari kayray-a see!"

A pundit is walking in front of a mosque tossing a rupee coin, the
coin falls on the road and rolls off in the gutter. The pundit says
"Allah help me" and the coin comes back to him. The mullah from
the mosque runs to the pundit and says "at the end you have to ask
Allah for help". The pandit says "Did you think I would ask Ram
to go in the gutter?".



As you said, no offence.

Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:37:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.012621.27849@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.221955.18403@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul22.135406.4830@cbfsb.cb.att.com> onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>>>----------------------------------------
>>>Article 25982 in soc.culture.pakistan:

>By proposing Punjabi language as the sole national language of Pakistan, 
>Mr. Sahibzada has tried to play the same trick with us which these people
>have been playing since independence... divide and conquer. I can but feel
>sorry for him...
>
>Nadeem


Nadeem, Rafay is just kidding.  I think he should be more
liberal with smilies  :-) 

Rab rakha.

Usman

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Subject: Haroon, Iftikhar and m'man Malcolm (and two types of niggers)
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:42:30 GMT


I would like to make a little contribution to the "colonial attitudes"
discussion that Haroon Dogar has started (with the help of Iftikhar
and some other unknown auther).

Malcolm X spoke on the subject in one of his speeches.  It has been 
many years since I have heard a recording of it so I am presenting what
is at best vague parapharsing.  Malcolm makes the point, in characteristic
style, with imagery far more powerful than the scholarly approach
taken in the previous posts.  The topic is essentially the same.  The
text of the speech might be found in his autobiography, and I will look
it up if there is sufficient interest.  

So here is my rendition of Malcolm's speech:

--
Out there in the cotton plantations there were two types of niggers:
The farm nigger and the house nigger.  The farm nigger was the one
one who carried the burden of slavery. He worked in the oppressive
conditions of the fields, was regularly whipped, raped and starved.
He lived in the worst of conditions, on the other side of the plantation
away from the massa's house.  He, however, was not the only nigger
on the plantation.  There was also the house nigger, who was also a 
slave.

	The house nigger lived a better life by comparison.  He looked
after the house, served the food, drove the carriage and kept an eye
on the farm niggers.  The house nigger was given privileges that the
farm nigger could never dream of.  He lived in or around the house and
spent his day away from the oppressive fields.  He wore finer clothes
handed down by the massa, and ate better food left over in the kitchen.

	Life for the farm nigger was so oppressive that all he could
think of was survival and the remote possibility of escape.  His heart
bore nothing but contempt for the massa.  The house nigger, on the other
hand, looked out for the massa's interests.  He even used the first person
"we" to address the massa.  When the master was not feeling well the farm
nigger wished him speedy death, while the house nigger got very worried.
He saw his priviledge being threatened.  "Massa, we sick?," he would 
inquire.  If the house ever caught fire the house nigger would run and
fetch water, while the farm nigger would pray for a strong wind to blow,
and plan his escape.

--
	Even to this day the master has divided us, including the Pakistanis,
into house niggers and farm niggers.  Look around the Muslim world today
and tell me how many house niggers you see?  And look at us ...

j n a.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanese,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.asean
From: tariq@cowan.edu.au (T.MALIK)
Subject: Re: muslim computer scientist association
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:34:30 GMT





jgjkg
jkhjkh
From: debchat@vax2.concordia.ca (DEB CHATTERJEE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RE: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (21st)
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:47:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul23.130605.2272@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com 
(omar.farooq) writes...
>....... (stuff deleted) ........
>..................There are many sites there that were originally mosques, 
>some were destoryed and mandirs were built there, since pockets of that area 
           ?????????
>were owned by Rajahs and Hindu-landowners.  Yes, many of those mandirs were
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>reconverted when Pakistan was created ..........
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Omar

 Thus, by your own logic, what is wrong if a temple is built, without doing
 anything to a neighboring mosque, in its vicinity ?????

 - deb chatterjee
(a good samaritan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanese,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.asean
From: minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas)
Subject: muslim computer scientist association
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:46:59 GMT

salam alaikum interested muslim computer scientist,

my name is zafar minhas of the university of cincinnati. i have completed a 
double major in computer science and biology. at this time i am trying to 
establish a database of muslim computer scientists all over the united states 
from different fields of study for the purpose of business in development in 
the muslim world. as you probably know the technological development in the 
muslim world is very low. inshallah if you are interested, please send me your
name, e-mail address, field of specialization, and country of origin/ethnic
background and a comment or two about yourself. if you would like any more 
information please send me some email and i will try to answer your questions
as best as i can.

jazakallah khairan in advance

zafar minhas

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 15:29:42 GMT

usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed) writes:
: In article <1992Jul24.210049.2294@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
: 
: >Everybody who tried UNIFORMITY as nation building
: >theory has failed.
: 
: 
: THEN JAPAN CLASSIFIES AS A FAILURE!

Japan has a great advantage in that it is one of the few countries in the world
which has virtually no ethnic diversity ---- they are literally one people.

[deletion]

: >-Naveed
: 
: YOU MAY BE RIGHT.
: 
: USMAN

Nadeem Malik
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan