From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Living in a State of Siege
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:12:34 GMT

In <C0C4L0.2EA@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> sam@sad.hp.com (Vicky Hansen) writes:

>Rich Payne (payner@netcom.com) wrote:
>: Perhaps if women took responsibility for raising
>: their children as non-violent there would be less.

>I doubt if the majority of mass murderer's mothers deliberately raised their
>children to be violent.  I also question the fact that fathers seem to be
>out of this picture (especially since I suspect you are male).
>I am not a violent person and I raised my boys in a way that I hoped would
>limit any violent tendencies.  However, 
> 1) My ex husband gave them laser tag sets that teach them to shoot to kill
> 2) Violence is on most TV shows, including cartoons aimed a children
> 3) Violence is so common at school that one of my boys stayed in the
>    classroom for a few months one year rather that go to recess and get
>    beat up
>Mothers are indeed a part of the environment but not as much of one as we
>would like to be.

I can't help but feel that there is another 'trigger' somewhere beyond
the TV violence, etc. As a child, I saw many violent cartoons at the
moviehouse (pre- TV), Grimm's fairey tales were just that - grim. Yet
I like to believe that I am not a violent person, but what caused me
to be non-violent? Size might have helped - you don't normally get too
violent at 5'8" and 140 lbs :-/, but there have been serial killers
who were my size.

I used to wonder about the TV shows when I was raising my son, not
just the violence, but the advertising too. Well, after a couple of
Christmas toys didn't perform the way they were shown to perform on
the TV, he became a real sceptic of advertising - they seem to have
shot themselves in the foot. He is opposite in size 6'2" 190 lbs and
turned into a gentle giant. He did say one thing revealing during a
conversation. I had apologized to him because I had no training as
a father, yet he turned out pretty good. His response was to the
effect that he too had something to do with his upbringing. Stopped
me in my tracks for a bit, but it is true - you can teach, you can
set examples, but they have to learn.

Now that he is 27, I find from things dropped in conversation that
the greatest lessons were where I set the example. He seems to have
learned a hell of a lot more from what I did than what I said. Let
that be a warning to all.

Many posters in this group appear to be trying to stem the tide of
violence. In how they raise their children, in controlling their
own feelings. I aplaud you. I would ask that we stop trying to fix
blame and admonish those who do, since it will serve no useful
purpose. Attempting to attain absolute 50/50 equality *at all times*
is just as futile. We need to look at the balance over the long haul,
for just like marriage (a working one) somedays you give 100% and
get nothing back because your mate is lost in some internal or
external struggle. Don't worry, you will have your days when you
get 100% in return for nothing. Or, if as in my first marriage, it
seems that you can do nothing to please, then break it off but in
a civilized manner. Sure, it hurts to admit that you failed at
something, but blaming it all on the other party only butters
up your ego for a little while. Generally, it takes two to waltz.

This started out about violence, guess I wandered a little, but
not too far. The one thing that stands out is the verbal violence
we do to each other. In my generation, manners were important. It
seems that somewhere in the 60s they became hypocrisy and were
thrown out. Manners are not hypocrisy, they are simply the
social grease that keeps the friction low. It doesn't matter
that you may not really mean the nice things you say, but it
keeps the blood pressure down. Someone starts out feeling a
little down. People keep bumping into him/her without an
apology. Other frictions are applied, work was the pits, finally
on the way home another driver cuts them off and then something
really stupidly violent happens, commited by some normally
quiet, gentle soul.

I'm not always innocent of doing these things myself, and I'm
not suggesting we resort to flowery Alphonse/Gaston language
in this group. Just a little restraint

I guess that's about $0.15. :-/

REB

Newsgroups: alt.feminism