From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Chinese myths
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 04:22:57 GMT

In article <8370@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou) writes:
>>That's the same sort of idea as dragon in Sun-style bagua: Reaching around,
>>grabbing, etc... But the Cheng-style dragon is quite different. (Which
>>makes me think I'm missing some underlying, common feature.)

>Can you describe the Sun and Cheng styles a little more?

Well, I can _try_... I'm not sure how clear these descriptions will
be. 

The Sun style dragon palm change is quite simple. It starts off 
exactly like single change palm (walking a circle/strike forward
along the edge of the circle/turn with a block-strike in the opposite
direction/turn to face outward in a ba stance/pierce under one arm
with the other hand, or if you are more poetic, Green Dragon Retracts
its Tail/Close Door to Push Out the Moon/Big Tiger Coming Out of the
Cave). However, unlike single change, dragon then turns to face along
edge of the circle with both hands forward and next to each other. As you
walk forward, the hands move to either side with one ending up in the
normal position for the inside hand when walking the circle. The other
is held, palm up at head level extending outward from the circle. If
you are walking the circle with someone, the outside hand is in a very
usefull position to grab or strike, should you get ahead of the other
person.

In Cheng (or at least the Cheng animal system I know...), the palm
change is totally different: From walking the circle, one takes a quick
double step forward along the circle, while sweeping both hands in
a circular motion (down, outward, up, and back towards the center in
a strike). Then there is a step backward with the outside foot, and
the inside foot raises up, with the thigh horizontal. Here the inside
arm is bent 90 degrees at the elbow, extending horizontal and then
straight up. The outside forearm is horizontal across the front of
the body. (This is a good counter to a grab, by the way, with the
inside arm connecting with the opponent's grabbing arm and the
inside foot kicking at the inside of the opponent's knee.) Next,
the raised inside foot drops down and back, and you turn towards
the center of the circle, crouching down on the forward (was outside)
leg, with the other leg extending straight. The inside hand then 
twists and slides along the extended leg, rising up at the end (with
the whole body rising with it). Then step forward and turn in a full
(360 degree) circle, but _not_ moving the extended arm (e.g. keeping
it level and pointing along the edge of the circle, and twisting the
body around and under the arm.) In the process the other arm rises.
From this position (both arms extended and twisted palm up, with the
legs together and the body facing the center), step sideways into 
a horse stance (sort of... the weight distribution is a bit different)
and drop the arms into downward arcs with the palms facing outward
and along the edges of the circle. Then turn away from the center
and step into a ba stance, with one arm over the other ("gathering
a ball") then turn back to the center as at the end of single palm 
change.

These aren't very good descriptions. I think I've just proven the
reason (from another thread here) why people don't try to discuss
and describe the details of techniques...

>>Swallow also appears in eight-animal bagua styles, but it's often called
>>falcon or sparrowhawk. I didn't get the reason for the name, until 
>>I was on a hiking trip, and saw a falcon diving at its prey: The form
>>has the same opening/rising and then overturning/downward striking feel,
>>as a bird of prey's dive. 

>Is the power of this animal called "guiding" in the pa kua your learning?

No, I learned it as a "upward" or "rising" energy...

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder

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