From: mcdonald@kestrel.edu (Jim McDonald)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice Criteria for Personhood
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:50:34 GMT
 <1992Nov6.065817.2564@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov6.145325.24639@netcom.com> <1dlkmmINN154@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>
Organization: Kestrel Institute, Palo Alto, CA


In article <1dlkmmINN154@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov6.145325.24639@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
|> >sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson) writes:
|> >>Yeah.  But I guess the point is that it's not so obvious that the
|> >>brain is the seat of personhood, much less "consciousness" and other
|> >>fluffy stuff.
|> >
|> >Try the argument from the other direction, then: does there exist
|> >anything which you would call a "person" but which lacks a brain?  If
|> >so, then how is this thing similar to an adult human person?
|> 
|> Sure there is.  A zygote or early embryo lacks a brain, and I would call it a
|> person.  It is similar to an adult human person in that it is human, has two
|> human parents, and that it was conceived.  ...

I'm genuinely puzzled by the belief systems of people who say they think a
zygote is a person, given the existance of people who are chimeras (i.e., are
derived from two or more zygotes that fused).  Maybe you could help me 
understand.  (You are an expert on your own beliefs, after all!)

Since you believe a zygote is a person, could you please satisfy my curiosity 
about your beliefs in the following situations?  For what it's worth, these
are not all hypothetical situations--some are well documented, and all
are plausible.  (I would personally guess that all have happened, but it's rather
rare that genetic tests are performed that provide definitive documentation--
usually this only happens when a person has noticeable medical problems as
a result of being a chimera.)

 o When a zygote fuses with another zygote, do you think that two people 
    literally become one?  (If you believe people have souls, did two souls
    become one?)

 o Do you need to know what happens later to answer the question above?

    E.g., what if the cells derivative from one zygote form the majority of the 
    resulting body, and the other zygote merely provides some blood cells?
    Did the first zygote remain a person and the other stop being a person?

    Alternatively,  what if each zygote develops into half of the resulting body?

 o What if two zygotes fuse, then one dies?   Did the survivor have continuity
    as a person, or did it disappear into a new composite person and then
    re-emerge as itself again?  Or did it re-emerge as a new distinct person?

 o What if the zygotes fuse, divide once, then the resulting cells separate into
    two pairs of cells (each pair derived from a single zygote) that go on to become
    twins?  Did two people become one and then re-emerge as two again?
    If so, are they same two people that existed in the original zygotes?

 o What if,  after one division as above,  twin A derives from one cell derived 
    from zygote 1, while twin B derives from three cells--one derived from 
    zygote 1 and both derived from zygote 2?

 o If you think two fused zygotes persist as separate persons, then if one
    becomes most of a woman while the other becomes her ovaries, would she 
    be comitting murder if she has her ovaries removed?

|> >_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
|> 
|> -- 
|> Frank.ODwyer@ap.mchp.sni.de   "You take slaves when you make us free,
|>                                when you make us free your way"
|>                              World Party - 'Ain't going to come til I'm ready'
|>                    

Yours in puzzlement,

  jlm
Newsgroups: talk.abortion