From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: new topic
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 19:37:53 GMT

>In article <1993Jan3.181402.6399@desire.wright.edu>
lkampf@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>Just thought I'd start things off right with a new topic to get the geeks
>>riled.
>>Topic: Is climbing becoming overrun with boneheads because it is a very
>>photogenic sport and is also becoming very fashionable, or is it merely 
>>expanding in a natural way?

Old topic. (--fellow climbing geek, but that's okay)

Depends on you view the sport.  If you look at it solely from climbing rags
it might appear that way.  If you view it from changing technology you
will see some different views.

Fads and fashions tend to die out in a 2-5 year time frame.
Residuals still hang around but look at the fads: jogging, running,
Aerobics(tm) which evolved into walking, and simple (or not) exercise.
Consider Bungie(tm) jumping, can it ever be more than a fad (curiosity)?
Certain logical limitations will constrain snowboards and monoskis like
flats and uphills.  So where will climbing gyms go?  Certainly more of them.
What is natural expansion for climbing?  More people proportionally doing
more of the same?  

Is it logical the activity necessarily become an Olympic activity?
This necessitates some standardization for competition.
We can view skiing and white water some what in these ways.
Why? to place the faces of climbers on Wheaties boxes?
How about trading cards?  "I'll trade you a Todd Skinner for two Warren
Hardings..."  Sort of like that company making trading cards for mass
murderers, AIDS figures, etc.
Did other activities (football [socker, rugby, etc.], baseball, basketball,
tennis) grow in these proportional ways?
Is the activity defined by the participants or the spectators (ticket payers)?

>>(given that a large portion of any society is composed of boneheads)
>>Also, I think a question of philosophy is inherent in this,
>>is man fundamentally good or is man fundamentally evil? (climbers or
>>boneheads, or both)
>>                  any  bites?

Consider neither.

In article <5778@gold.gvg.tek.com> jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com
(Jim Delwiche) writes:
>I think it is growing in a somewhat natural way, fueled by the
>invention of the climbing gym.  Of course it's been beat to death on
>this forum that the indoor climbing wall multiplies the appeal factor
>of the sport, since a wall allows the potential climber to try it out
>in a controlled, fairly safe environment, with readily available
>instruction, and with little equipment required.
>
>I think the sport in the US is also being populated with lots of
>posers, wannabees, and lightweights (like me :^)) just because of the
>glamorous thrill seeker image--  Hell, if you are pretending to be
>something, you'd rather pretend to be a daring mountaineer than a
>wimpy badminton ace. 
>
>So, both are true.  Man is fundamentally confused.

Daring?  Glamorous thrill seeking?
I got into climbing precisely because it lacked "image."
You can take interesting photos, it's a kind of image, but that's
spectator value.  That's not climbing.  Climbing is getting there.
It's real.  The posers, the wannabees, shit in their pants.
You get up the B3 or you don't (in my case).  Fine.  There's other
aspects of climbing like figuring out an unclimbed wall.  In the past
you could resort to aid, but "standards" are higher now.  What about ice?
Another set of problems.  I don't look down on the weekender who's
happy doing class 3.  That's his/her thing.  There's a post in rec.skiing
asking, "When did skiing stop being an individual sport?"

What differs right now is that people are kinda fed up with their lives
and some of them wish to take an avocation and turn it into a vocation
(nothing wrong with this in the eyes of the economic world).  This
necessitates things like advertising, political action, etc.

Climbing is what climbers do.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
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