HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thomas.taylor@aquila.com (Thomas Taylor) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: A RULES QUESTION THAT
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:40:00 GMT
Distribution: netcomsv
Organization: Aquila BBS - Aurora, IL - 820-8344
Reply-To: thomas.taylor@aquila.com (Thomas Taylor) 


 > Second, whenever anyone establishes possesion in either end zone, they
 > must carry the disk to the goal line.

I hate to be a pedant, but this statement, while true for the situation
under discussion (D blocks and catches in Zone that it's attacking), is not
true universally.  If the disc is caught or picked up after a turn or pull
in the endzone that one is defending, one has a choice of playing from that
point or bringing it to the line.  And if the O catches it's own pass in
the endzone it's defending, it has to play from where it is.

-tt

 -- SPEED 1.3f #1048: Thomas Taylor -- Internet: thomas.taylor@aquila.com
          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: reid@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (David Reid)
Subject: National's Results?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: reid@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: Institute for the Mechanically Declined
Distribution:  na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:06:36 GMT

Howdy!
	Ok, who has the results from National's this past weekend.  Care
to share them with the rest of the class?  Inquiring minds want to know!

dave
From: dks@Apple.COM (dk smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Women's games to 19
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:18:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Nov20.215027.16237@mprgate.mpr.ca> haman@mpr.ca (Anja Haman) writes:
>>Article: 3012 of rec.sport.disc
>
>>     The question I have is:  why did the Women only play to 19, while
>>the Open/Men played to 21?  If they play with the same 175g disc, play
>>on the same field, play with the same number of players, why not let
>>them play to the same point score?
>>
>>--Mike Tamada
>>  tamada@oxy.edu
>
>
>   When I first started playing in tournaments I wondered about this myself.
>   Fair is fair: if the men have to (get to?) run around until they score
>   21 points, so should the women. 
>
>   But, having played on men's and women's teams, it does seem to
>   take longer for women to move the disc upfield. We TEND not to
>   throw as far, or run as fast. 

So would it make sense (or sound terribly sexist of me) to suggest a smaller
field for women. I don't mean a drastically smaller field; just a bit shorter
... maybe 10%. Wouldn't this have the effect of increasing the percieved
pace of the women's games? Any opinions on this?

>   For example, even the faster
>   women on our team find it hard to keep up with most men who
>   play Ultimate at a more serious level. Since we take longer to
>   score a point, our games to 19 likely last the same amount of time as
>   men's teams playing to 21. That's coming from the perspective
>   of a Canadian woman... we simply do not have the numbers YET to
>   attract only top athletes. I realise that the women on the Maine-iacs
>   or Godiva, for eg., will have better stats. 

IMHO, these teams' games are slightly slower paced than the equivalent men's
games. By shortening the field maybe the pace of play can be made proportionate
to that of the men's games. (???)

>   I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this - esp from some of
>   the American women who play on "hot" teams. Are there stats re: women's
>   games vs men's games? Do we play the same amount of time? I'd like to 
>   think that someday we will play to 21.
> 
>anja haman
>haman@mprgate.mpr.ca
>

I'd like to hear some opinions on this too.

-dk
--
dks@apple.com | Above opinions are mine and are not endorsed by Apple Computer
AppleLink: ULTIMATE | 408 974-1275 | Ultimate Players Get Horizontal More Often
From: ce448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Lehmann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Cultural Relevance of Frisbee
Date: 19 Nov 1992 02:11:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ce448@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Lehmann)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Howdy, a prof of mine assigned a paper, saying we had to write a
research paper on how an object influences the culture around it.
Perfect, I thought, I'll write about the frisbee and how the cultural
dynamics of the frisbee has influenced the game of Ultimate. Since there
aren't a whole lot of articles floating around about Ultimate, I thought
that this would be the perfect place for some primary research. So here is
a questionnaire about Ultimate. Please take part and e-mail it back to me
at ce448@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu

I'll let you know how the paper went, I promise.

(BTW - for the purpose of this questionnaire/paper, I'm using the words
frisbee and disc interchangeably. My sincerest apologies to Discraft.)


1) What do you think is the general cultural assumption about the 
Frisbee?



2) What do you think of when you think about the Frisbee?



3) What is the general public's assumption about "playing Frisbee?"



4) Does the Frisbee's status as a non-traditional sports object 
contribute to the way the game of Ultimate is played?



5) Does it contribute to who plays Ultimate?



6) Hs the Frisbee's status as a non-traditional or "new" sports object
had a positive or negative effect on Ultimate? Why?



7) Has it contributed to the concept of "Spirit of the Game?"



8) What do you think are the main reasons we are able to play a sport
governed by the concept of Spirit of the Game?



9) Please add any comments you feel are relevant. 




Thanks in advance everyone. See you on the fields.

					Chris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Lehmann	 	 	 ce448@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
University of Pennsylvania	 "When a ball dreams, it dreams 
Breed Ultimate	 	 	 it's a frisbee."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush)
Subject: Re: Another question....
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 02:14:04 GMT

>
>In article <BxKMqB.5y3@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> cmparris@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (Chris Michael Parrish) writes:
>>Well, I have anther question already.... If a thrower makes a toss
>>that results in his hand or arm contacting the stationary limb or body
>>of a marker is it a foul? Also to carry it one step further, what if
>>the thrower attempts to reach around the marker(who is not moving his
>>blocking arm towards the thrower, but instead downward) and the marker
>>hits the hand/arm of the thrower? Is it still a foul even though the
>>thrower moved into the marker "space"?
>

It seems to me that the best way to handle this situation is to treat it
like they do in college basketball.  If the marker's body is stationary
and the thrower makes contact with the BODY, offensive foul IF the
marker is hurt in such a way that his ability to continue is impaired.
If the thrower makes contact with any part of the arm or a moving or
stationary leg/foot, defensive foul.  I really think that is simple.
The problem is that markers, like people taking the charge in basketball,
always think they are stationary.

Greg

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: evh@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Troy Saville)
Subject: Where to get a guide to disc golf courses
Keywords: disc golf
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:27:44 GMT



The PDGA(Professional Disc Golf Association) is the 'governing' body
of disc golf. Much like the PGA is in ball golf. They 'run' the pro
disc golf tour. They also publish a booklet of all known disc golf courses
in the world and information on those courses(who is course pro, #holes,
type of tee pads, length of course etc etc). I don't know how much this
booklet costs, but it isn't free. You can probably get one by contacting the 
office at the address below.




Contacts/Addresses:

     P.D.G.A.
     PO Box 240363
     Memphis, TN 38124-0363

     PH: (901)323-4849



  Personally, i have been playing for about 6 years. I can tell you about
most of the course in the DE,MD,NJ,PA area and some courses in NC and VA.


  Troy Saville
  EMAIL:   evh@genie.slhs.udel.edu

-- 
T. Saville, PDGA #5399,  GOLF DISCS & MINI'S bought,sold,TRADED
evh@genie.slhs.udel.edu
From: chrisf@jna.com.au (Chris Ford)
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:15:27 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: specific rules input sought

> From donc@ISI.EDU Tue Nov 24 06:50 EDT 1992
>
> In article <daemon.92Nov19175417@is.morgan.com> you write:
> > ... What does the corresponding rule in American Football say? They
> > have an almost identical situation, except they have 73 officials standing
> > around waiting to make the call.
> 
> That's a very poor choice of question.  American football has so many rules
> that a normal fan or player cannot hope to know them all.  Things like who's
> eligible to catch a pass, where (in what part of the field) you're allowed 
> to block someone, etc.  The rules even relate to what position you're 
> playing, which may be related to what number you're wearing.  One of the 
> things I like about ultimate is that the rules are (relatively) simple.
> 
> My IMPRESSION is that a touchdown results when an offensive player has 
> posession of a live ball (i.e., the play has not already ended), HE is 
> in bounds (which involves both feet touching in bounds after he gains
> posession), and some part of the BALL is past the goal line (called 
> "breaking the plane of the goal line", which does not require that the 
> ball be over the in-bounds part of the field).
> However, it takes a referee to be sure.  Note that rules are not the
> same, e.g., in professional and college football, and probably high 
> school rules are different again.  I may have answered your question,
> but I hope I've convinced you that the answer is not relevant.

I was not suggesting that we adopt any of the rules of American football. I
was just interested to know what their definition of "possession of a live
ball" in the endzone (as you put it) is. I realise they have a thousand
officials standing about to make the call, but the written rules must define
the requirements for a fair catch. I am definitely not suggesting we turn
our game into anything resembling American football. From a rules and
referees point of view it is about the most appalling game in the world.

--
Regards,

Chris Ford
Treasurer NSW Flying Disc Association
c/o JNA Telecommunications
voice:  +61 2 417 6177
fax:    +61 2 417 8026
e-mail: chrisf@jna.com.au
post:   16 Smith St, Chatswood, NSW 2067, Australia.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------JNA

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: lind@ils.nwu.edu (Jeff Lind)
Subject: Re: Paying the price for getting horizontal!
Followup-To: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:02:44 GMT

Mike Gagnon writes:

>Next chance you get to watch competitive play watch how the
>best layouts are done. Most of the really amazing guys, 
>like Lenny (With the horns) from Big Brother (or is it 
>First Time Gary, what are they called this year?), usually
>land on their stomach. Of course this implies you need an iron
>plate where most people have stomach mussels, but I've never seen
>an Ultimate player with a scab on his belly! :)
>I used to play alot of vollyball also, and the tendency to land
>with your wrists to absorb the dive is second nature. But with a 
>disc in your hand it really hurts.

>One word of caution, if you are going to switch to taking the 
>impact with your stomach, make sure you do just that. Coming
>down on your ribs from two feet up is sure to bruse them, if
>not worse. I played most of this season with sore ribs , due 
>to some difficulties with my style. :( 

In article <4083@sapwdf.UUCP>, wohler@sapwdf.UUCP (Bill Wohler) wrote:

>   technique and prophylactics.
> 
>   on the dive, don't land on your elbows--stretch them out straight as
>   far as you can.  maximize the landing area across your entire body.
>   forward momentum helps too: don't do a stutter step and spring with
>   both legs. instead, push off with your strong leg without breaking stride.
>   you'll fly longer and produce a more satisfying slide on wet grass.

I wish I could choose how I dive and land as much as you guys do.  My main
rule is:  get the disc.  I rarely have time to think about how I'm going to
dive.  (Which is a good thing, considering my natural self-preservation
instincts)

Sometimes I'm pretty and extended and land flat, which is certainly more
comfortable, though tougher to get yourself to do. But sometimes I'm
knotted and halting and land awkwardly and painfully (ever land right on
your crotch?  I didn't think it was possible 'til I did it).  

In general, I find that I usually dive better if I really have to extend to
make the play, or if I have to react very quickly.  For instance, if I end
up chasing a floater a long distance, and then laying out to get it, I have
too long to think, and I will usually not dive well or vary far and will
hurt myself.  The only way I've been able to help train myself to dive
consistently better is to wait for a good rain day in practice when the
grass is thick and the ground is soft and have someone throw you low ones
just out of reach and yell at you to go get them. Various games can be
devised. Our college team used to also have mud-diving competitions. When
at the end of practice we had a good muddy patch on the field to slide on,
we would take turns and judge each other for distance and height.  Getting
everyone cheering and excited can get you pumped up enough to think that
self-abuse seems like fun.  Highly reccomended.  Also throwing myself on
the ground a few times in warm-ups can get you "into the flow" so that you
dive more readily and with better form, thus reducing injury.

--Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: indoor Ultimate?
From: mike@inform.co.nz (Mike Williams)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:35:25 GMT
Organization: InForm Group, Wellington, New Zealand.


>>> In article <By0xHD.Eq3@ccu.umanitoba.ca>,
>>> "Stuart" == browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown) writes:

Stuart> We have a fairly active indoor program here in Winnipeg.

  We play quite a bit of indoor here in NZ as well, particularly thru
  winter when any disc thrown outside might end up in Australia.  I'm
  interested in how other people have adapted ultimate for indoor play (as
  far as I know, there's no OFFICIAL indoor form of game).
  
  We play 4-a-side on basketball courts, with the keyhole as the endzone,
  and a stall count of 7.  Are there any other variants out there? 

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mike Williams, InForm Group Ltd., Wellington, New Zealand.
   Email: mike@inform.co.nz   Phone: 64 4 472 0996   Fax: 64 4 473 2407
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith)
Subject: Demographics of players?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:40:53 GMT

Does anyone have or know of a demographic study of Ultimate players.
Any references would help, and I don't care how localized the study was.

Thanks.
Richard Griffith
From: Eric Simon <70540.1522@CompuServe.COM>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:44:14 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: UPA Nationals

News from Nationals:   Open Division:


Finals: NY over Boston, 21-15.
Semis:  NY over Rhino Slam, 21-8 
        Boston over Windy City, 20-17 (or 20-18?)

Comments: NY, as usual, as usual, seemed to peak at just the right
time.  They finished second at the Northeast Regionals, losing to
Boston 19-18.  At Nationals, they played pretty well, winning all
their games (not all by lopsided scores), but really peaked in the
semis.  The poor Rhino Slam (Portland,2d place West?) just didn't
know what hit them.  Get this: New York had *NO* turnovers for the
entire first half!  They scored on each of their first 13
possessions, and only made three turnovers the entire game.
     Boston and Windy City, on the other hand, had a very exciting
semi - which is part of their tradition.  I think that the only
overtime semi games in Open history were both Boston-Windy City
games (1987 & 1988).  This game had many lead changes, with Boston
getting the last two points to win.
     In the finals, Boston and NY played seemingly even in the
first half,  although a few keen observers who were also stat
freaks, noticed that even while Boston took a 10-8 lead, Boston
might've been in trouble.  The reason was the following:  during
pool play, NY had averaged 5.0 passes per possession; Boston had
averaged 5.9.  During the first half, NY was averaging around 5,
but Boston was averaging around 10-12.  In other words, although
the score was close, Boston was working much, much harder for their
goals.
     Down 10-8, NY scored three to take the half 11-10.  The second
half was all NY, as they scored five of the first second half
goals, to go up 16-11, and then cruised in with the 21-15 victory.

News from Nationals:  Women's Division

Finals:  Maine-iacs over Lady Godiva, 19- approx 15
Semis:   Lady Godiva over Satori, 19-17
         Maine-iacs over Block Party, 19-11.

Comments:  Four straight years, the same four semi-finalists.  The
Maine-iacs looked very impressive, especially there offense, which
seemed to make so few mistakes.
     The only exciting game of the semis and finals was the Godiva-
Satori game.  Satori was up 7-4, but Godiva took a 10-9 half-time
lead.  It was close in the second half, with Godiva keeping a 1
point lead, and then 2-3 point lead, until the end.  With Godiva up
18-17, Satori got the disc within one foot of a slight upwind goal,
but threw it away.  Godiva converted and won.
     Both Block Party and Satori each lost to Godiva by two, and
each lost to Maine-iacs by eight.


From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Demographics of players?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:17:16 -0500

RG>Does anyone have or know of a demographic study of Ultimate players.
RG>Any references would help, and I don't care how localized the study was.

There were some demographic questions in the UPA survey for the past
couple of years.  Of course, being a voluntary response survey, it is in
no way a random sample.  Will this suffice?

 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

From: Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:03:21 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: specific rules input sought

OK, net readers, here's the latest question:

A player catches the disc while toeing the line, establishing both
possession and ground contact, then drops the disc as s/he continues to
fall.  Similar case: player catches the disc on the run, establiching
both possession and ground contact, then hit the disc with their knee and
it pops out.   On the playing field, these are turnovers in any case,
because after the completion, the disc is still in play.  But in the end
zone, it's either a turn or a goal.

which should it be? 


Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown)
Subject: Re: A Rules Question that the UPA has yet to answer
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:51:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.204616.12923@news.stolaf.edu> richarje@inga1.acc.stolaf.edu (Joe E Richardson Iii) writes:
>Well, here's my scenario:
>	The score is tied 10 all, with our last point being played due to IM
>time cap restrictions at St. Olaf College.  My team pulls, and the receiving 
>team begins their offense, until they throw a pass which I unintentionally tip
>up and then catch IN the end zone.  Is my catch a score, or must I take the 
>disc out and throw it in?  In the rules it's kind of vague, so help me, please!
>
>Secondly, does anyone know of any winter tourneys in MN?  I'm especially inter-
>ested in playing indoors.  Thanks in advance.
>

If I understand this correctly, you intercepted a pass from the other team in
the far endzone.  This cannot be a point for your team as points can only be
scored on a pass from a teammate.  I'm not sure if you must take the disc back
to the goal line, or  whether you can just make another pass immediately.

By the way, where is Northfield, MN?  We have a fairly active indoor program
here in Winnipeg. Interested in coming up for a game sometime?

		-Dr. Stu 

-- 
Stuart M. Brown                             If you can remain cool when all 
U. of Manitoba, Dept. Plant Science         Around you are in panic,
Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANADA
browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca            Then you surely misunderstand the situation
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: peter@geology.wisc.edu (Peter Burkholder)
Subject: World Ultimate Club Championships '93
Organization: Department of Geology & Geophysics, University of Wisconsin - Madison.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:36:10 GMT


The 1993 World Ultimate Club Championships (WUCC'93) are coming up this
coming July in Madison, Wisconsin, USA.  Tournament dates are from July
25-31.

The WUCC'93 planning committee hopes to increase communication
efficiency and reduce costs down by using Internet mail and Usenet
postings.  You can help in any one of three ways:

1) If you represent a national Ultimate organization or club team
outside of the United States, please reply to this message with the name of
the organization you represent so you can be added to our mailing  list.

2)  If you know of an Ulimate publication *anywhere* in the world, please
send me the e-mail or snail mail address.

3)  Keep an eye on this newsgroup for more postings about WUCC'93, and
spread the word to your teammates and friends.

Thanks for your help,

____________________________________________________________________________
Peter Burkholder                                        \\  /~~~~~\
Madison Ultimate Frisbee Assoc.                          \\'  WUCC |
WUCC '93 Public Relatiions Dir.                           \=>  93  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                             \_____/
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Peter Burkholder 			Geophysical and Polar Research  |
| peter@geology.wisc.edu		Univ. of Wisconsin - Madison    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rpierce@oracle.com (Russell Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: UPA Nationals
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:43:08 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores, CA  94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


	Way to go Karen.  I wasn't there but my girlfriend plays on the
	Maineiacs and said that both semi's and the finals were great games.
	The original poster probably left after the men's game.  His loss!
	and spectator, I think the women's games are just a fun to 
	watch as the men's.  The teams are usually more evenly matched
	and there's not as much bickering.  Of course, I am also
	more interested in how Jackie does than a bunch of men from
	NY, Chicago or anywhere other that Santa Barbara.
        Of course, it also helps to keep me out of the doghouse.

		Russ