From: sunidh@m.njit.edu (Sunil Dhar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: A Parable
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:42:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47418
Distribution: world
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

I must beign by saying I have enjoyed this news group immensely.


Bill writes:

At Roger's suggestion, I've been reading a little Vivekenanda of late,
his book on Raja Yoga in particular.  I must say he is very inspiring,
and I had trouble putting the book down.  For the most part, he is
relentless in his compassionate efforts to persuade his readers to
practice well and to practice hard - kind of like one or two football
coaches I've had, but without the negativity.
	This being the case, I think it should be clear why I find the
following passage so ironic. On page 92-93 he relates the story of a
certain god-sage named Narada.

[]

There was a great god-sage called Narada.  Just as there are sages
among men, great yogis, so there are great yogis among the gods.
Narada was a great yogi, and renowned.  He travelled everywhere.  One
day he was passing through a forest and saw a man who had been
meditating until the white ants had built a huge mound around his body
- he had been sitting in that position so long.  He said to Narada,
"Where are you going ?"  Narada replied, "I am going to heaven."
"Then ask God when He will be merciful to me, when I shall attain
freedom."  Farther on, Narada saw another man.  He was jumping about,
singing and dancing, and said, "O Narada, where are you going?"  His
voice and his gestures were wild.  Narada said, "I am going to
heaven."  "Then ask when I shall be free."  Narada went on.  In the
course of time he came back again by the same road, and there was the
man who had been meditating with the ant-hill around him.  He said, "O
Narada, did you ask the Lord about me ?  What did he say ?"  Narada
replied, "The Lord told me that you would attain freedom in four more
births."  Then the man began to weep and wail, and said, "I have
meditated until an ant-hill has grown around me, and I have yet four
more births !"  Narada then came to the other man, who asked him
likewise, "What did the Lord say about me ?"  Narada replied, "Oh yes.
Do you see this tamarind tree ?  I have to tell you that you shall be
born as many times as there are leaves on that tree, and then you
shall attain freedom."  The man began to dance for joy and said, "Ah,
I shall have freedom after such a short time !"  A voice came [and
said], "My child, you will have freedom this minute."

Vivekenanda's comment:
That was the reward for his perseverance.  He was ready to work
through all those births;  nothing discouraged him.  But the first man
felt that even four more births were too long.  Only perseverance like
that of the man who was willing to wait aeons brings about the highest
result. 

[]

Now, its not V.'s comments that I find ironic, but rather the story
itself in contrast to the general thrust of V.'s rhetoric.  Is it just
me, or does V. seem to gloss over some of the more interesting
conclusions that can be drawn here ?  In particular, V claims that
liberation was a reward for his perseverance, when it seems to me that
the wild-man has "attained" liberation "this very minute" strictly by
virtue of his attitude.  His joy, gratitude, and patience brought him
to realization long before the many potential lifetimes of effort in
what is obstensibly his practice.
	Which of course leads us to his actual practice, his wild
singing, dancing and gesturing.  Is this to be taken literally ?  It
would seem to imply that if I go out clubbing *every* night (wouldn't
want to miss a day of practice, now would I :) and couple this with
joy and wonder over the fact that on a magic day lightyears away I
will awaken, then I will actually become awake NOW.  Another
possibility is that the wild-man is supposed to refer to some other
"path", one which V.  views as inferior to the one he is explicating.
But either way, it would seem that the most obvious reading of this
parable is that the actual practice doesn't matter at all, but rather
a shift in attitude which  V. seems to ignore.
	Maybe Shunryu Suzuki can help us here.  On page 128-129 of
ZM,BM, we have:

	So to have faith in the original emptiness of mind is the
	most important thing in your practice.

	Dogen-zenji said, "You should establish your practice in 
	your delusion."  Even though you think you are in delusion,
	your pure mind is there.  To realize pure mind in your 
	delusion is practice.

	So you should establish your practice in delusion.  To have
	delusion is practice.  This is to attain enlightenment
	before you realize it.

Page 112:

	If you seek for freedom, you cannot find it.  Absolute
	freedom itself is necessary before you can acquire absolute
	freedom.

And on page 111:

	There is no way set up for us.  Moment after moment we
	have to find our own way.


I think no matter what your perspective, it's an interesting parable,
tasty "worm-food" to borrow a phrase from Lorenzo.

Roger ?  Raj ? Others ??  Why should we wait 4 lifetimes for
enlightenment when we can have it NOW ???  And why does seem to be
necessary to have so much patience that we have effectively foregone
enlightenment (at least for ourselves :) in order to wake up this very
minute ? 


Yours in Dharma,
-Bill
-- 

In response Thyagi writes:


This is why I think that Vivekananda is a beginner's text; that he
speaks to one on the ascetic path and/or who has yet to find a 'Middle Way'
between the extremes of asceticism and euphoricism.


I disagree with Thyagi, it is a matter of ones mind whether one thinks he is
on an ascetic path or inbetween asceticism and euphoricism.


Another interpretation for,

 "I have to tell you that you shall be
born as many times as there are leaves on that tree, and then you
shall attain freedom." 

is that having this human existence allows us to enjoy God and hence being born
so many times so as to enjoy God is the best thing that can happen and is not
necessarily a bad thing even in terms of time.

Love 

Sunil