HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sr09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SIMON NICHOLAS RUSSELL)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Dusky Beauty Tells All
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:00:28 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <76728@ut-emx.uucp>, keisha@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Coed of the Damned) w
rites:
>
>Hello, Keisha here, demuffining.
>
>I have been reading this newsgroup for about five months now, but I never
>had the guts to post anything.  Well, I have nothing to lose by posting now
>because everyone that I care about knows about my preferences, so here goes.

As a fellow "recent-demuffiner" myself, perhaps I'm not established enough to
welcome you TO soc.bi, but I'm glad you found the "guts" to do it.  I dithered
for months before I decided to post--and, as far as I can tell right now, for
no good reason!  Anyway, hi!

>But I think that milling about with people who can attest
>to the normalcy of this lifestyle will make me a little more courageous
>when I finally make the plunge, so to speak.
>
>Some people may say that my being bisexual stems from confusion or lack
>of "strong, traditional family values." I really don't think that my
>being (or at least believing) that I am bisexual makes me confused or
>misguided

I've been mulling over the impact of "strong, traditional family values"
myself, and I guess I'm at the point that I'm not quite sure what those values
are supposed to be.  I'm sure my mother and father would be horrified to be
referred to as anything other than "strongly traditional" and seem utterly
"normal" to the naked eye.  But as far as presenting a normative model for
late twentieth century bourgeois heterosexual family life I think they did a
fairly shitty job.  Did it make me "confused?" The only confusion I ever felt,
was in attemtping to make THEIR lives--and the model they presented
to me--make any sense at all.  They're the misguided ones--not me!
>
>Something else that worries me about this whole thing is being identified
>as some sort of oversexed weirdo who can't keep her clothes on.  I know
>that I'm not like that.  I believe that if I have these desires, I should
>act on them, as long as the acts are consensual and the other person
>involved (male or female) is as open and understanding as I am willing to
>be.
>
>Or am I just deluding myself?
>
Absolutely not!  But then again, perhaps I'm similarly deluded....


>Keisha J. Gray -- Co-ed of the Damned
>(keisha@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu, but not for long.)
>"More fun than you can shake a stick at!"
>
<hugs>
Simon.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Subject: Re: The Big One
Reply-To: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:15:49 GMT

In article <YL6MBLKB@dri.com>, cmclark@dri.com (Chip Clark) writes:
>dente@els.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente) writes:
>
>]In article <1992Jul14.144903.9292@ils.nwu.edu>, lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:
>
>]|> Guess this is my official de-muffining,
>
>]*Pounce*
>]Hmmmm... what have we here?  <lick> <nibble>  Yum, it's a muffin
>]<Pat's head> hello little ex-muffin.  Welcome to soc.bi...

Stop playing with your food.  Now "EAT" your muffin.  Tsk, tsk..

>]We don't mind - so long as you don't mind getting flirted at outrageously..
>]<flutters eyelids>, <coy smile>

... and getting licked all over by Colin.

>
>]|> PPS:  I still haven't figured out that bear code, but haven't worked at it.
>]|> Is it worth it?
>]Depends on whether or not you like bears...

.... or whether or not you love to strip naked to everyone in this net.

>
>]Here's a hug -->*HUG*<--  The welcome wagon will be along shortly...
>
>]Colin

Sorry for being so goofy, Colin. ... must be the plane food.


BIG welcome Hug and Grin,

Ken   elee74l@jetson.uh.edu
From: elee52@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bill Gammie)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Opinions sought (long)
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:06:20 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Note:  There is much stuff deleted throughout this response.

In article <17003@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
:>
:>
:>I'm assuming in your case that the man who put his hand up your skirt
:>thought you were a woman. In my case he most definitely knew I was male (if

  No, he knew I was male.

:>none of my friends had recognised me they wouldn't have let me in to the
:>party for a start). Are you claiming that even though he knew I was male,
:>because I projected a female image he could treat me badly? What a horrible

   Yes, that's the way some people's minds work.

:>Being a basically non-violent person, I'm not keen this option but surely
:>even if you lose the fight and get a black eye or whatever for your
:>troubles, you'll still have put the guy off. If he continues at this point
:>then you are clearly in a rape situation, and you have bruises from the
:>fight to prove it. Plus other people will have seen the fight. So if you
:>don't mind ruining your clothes and losing some teeth (really nasty for a
:>brass player like me) then this a viable option :-) :-).
:>
   Yes but (IMHO) not the best one.   In fact a last resort.

:>Owen.
:>
:>The views expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of Acorn.

Bill - short on time today so no long responses -

Bill Gammie                                Phone:031 650 5612
Department of Electrical Engineering       email:bill@ee.ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: billybob@bnr.ca (Bill Nickerson)
Subject: If I were in San Francisco...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 17:47:55 GMT

Let's say that I were planning a hypothetical vacation for a couple
of weeks early next year (February or March-ish) in San Francisco.
Could anyone provide hypothetical answers to a few hypothetical questions?

.. (This may seem stupid, but) is there enough to see/do to warrant
   me staying in SF for the entire time?

.. Are there any particularly good places for food that I should
   try out?

.. Are there any particularly "bad" places I should stay away from?

I wanna do something myself and don't wanna go on those planned tour
things. I went to the winter Usenix, but I didn't have the time to
explore properly. I would like to take my time for this one.

Hypothetical replies appreciated.
--
                     _
Billy Nickerson      V | billybob@bnr.ca | These opinions are hand-crafted.
22C Castlebrook Lane   |-----------------| BNR had nothing to do with them.
Nepean, ON    K2G 5G3  |                 |
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:14:13 GMT

In article <Bs1734.Fqt@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.004204.22498@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> pclary@radish.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>>
>>Brad,
>>
>>I haven't completely mentally absorbed your entire post yet, 
>>but just to reiterate...
>>
>>I don't think anyone was implying that those who are already
>>married should break up their marriages.  The question in 
>>the marriage thread was: 
>>
>>[pclary@somewhereorother asks:]
>>>There are many married folk in this newsgroup whose opinions I,
>>>not only respect, but hold in high regard.  My question is:
>>>If you came out as bi after you got married, given the inequity
>>>in marriage oppertunities for motss vs motos relationships, would
>>>you get married again?
>>>
>>>If you got married after you came out as bi, what decisions/thought
>>>processes did you go through and what conclusions did you come to?
>>
>>
>>Ellen
>
>It was something said much later than that, although there is a good chance
>that I am attributing incorrectly, since I'm going on memory alone.
>
>*You* might not have made the statement I was referring to.  I just looked
>in my file of saved articles and (unfortunately) did not save the exact
>reference.  But it was made, and pretty well in the terms I describe.
>
>
>Brad

This may be the quote you are thinking of -- I don't have the orignal
posing because I'm missing a day or two in my files.

(quoted in a post dated Wed, 24 Jun 92 12:41:01 GMT)
- - - - - - - - - -
 Ellen writes:
 >I obviously can't speak for anyone else but me, but is it possible
 >that some members of the lesgay community might perceive bi's a little
 >differently if bi's chose to not marry until it is ummmm, equally available?
 >Wonder. Wonder. Wonder.
- - - - - - - - - -

Ellen quoted her initial post above, and this 2nd post came after 
many responses from bi married folk and others and should 
very likely be read in this context.

It sounds to me like Ellen was "playing devils advocate" more than
telling married bis to take a walk.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: revanbus@eos.ncsu.edu (RONALD E VAN-BUSKIRK)
Subject: yet another yet another muffin
Originator: revanbus@c00065-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: revanbus@eos.ncsu.edu (RONALD E VAN-BUSKIRK)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:59:34 GMT



Howdy,

   This is my first posting to the net, and I guess therefore my de-
muffining...

   It'll probably be one of the few I post because I'm not a real talker
but I felt kind of like I was eavesdropping every time I fired up the 
newsreader and I just wanted to say 'howdy'.

   Also it's kind of cool to be able to come out to 28,000 people all at once. 

   Also I wanted to post since reading soc.bi has helped me out, when I was 
questioning my sexuality and what it meant to be a good person in general. I 
guess I was just being so influenced by society's negative bisexual
stereotypes, that I wouldn't admit to myself that I was bi. I know it sounds 
like a dumb thing to find out, but after reading soc.bi I realized bisexuals
aren't any different from anybody else and that a person's sexuality doesn't
make any difference any more than their hair color or the car they drive... 
And now, although it's still kinda difficult to say, I'm not ashamed of saying
"I'm a bisexual" any more than I am of saying "I'm a democrat" or "I like 
country music"... (well, maybe the 'I like country music', is a bad example...
I may never get over the stigma... Oddly enough the few people I've come out to
have been much more accepting of my sexual preferences than my musical ones...
(-:) Go figure...
 
    So I guess the reason I really wanted to post was to thank everybody on
soc.bi for...uhmmm... just being themselves... thanks, and a big

		eeeee       h   h  u   u  gggggg
		e           h   h  u   u  g    
		eeee   ==   hhhhh  u   u  g   gg
		e           h   h  u   u  g    g
		eeeee       h   h  uuuuu  gggggg

to everybody....

(if anybody sees this, that is... with my skillful use of the newsreader I'm
probably sending out 1,000 copies of this article to alt.talk.plywood,
rec.music.eight.track, and soc.culture.botswana...)

______                                                                ______
\  __/___ o   revanbus@eos.ncsu.edu                                 o \  __/___
 \ \    / o    "Grooviness is in the eye of the beholder," - Plato  o  \ \    /
  \/\  /  o                                                         o   \/\  /
     \/   o      Ron Van Buskirk          NC State University       o      \/

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:33:55 GMT

In article <24224@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>
>>[about his original posting on this thread]
>>It was also a strong emotional reaction to tension between my marriage (which
>>people who have read other posts on soc.bi know I value deeply) and what
>>at least seemed to be presented as politically palatable queer values.
>>I've already stated which would win out, so I was feeling that if I couldn't
>>resolve the disparity, I should opt out of the forum.
>
>But where does "the forum" define these queer values and ask you to
>adhere to them?  Who says that these values are more valid than your
>feelings about your marriage?  Something is being blown up out of
>proportion here.  I can't see any reason why you should opt out of
>soc.bi; on the contrary, I think that you *should* continue to post
>here.  Where are other married bisexuals going to get support?  What
>happens if all married bisexuals opt out of "the forum"?  Things would
>get a little slanted, don't you think?  There are *always* disparities;
>don't expect them resolved in a day.

Well, I'm not going to pretend that every feeling I have is a rational one,
especially since if it were so I'd be quite a boring person.

And I wrestled with the issue, blew off a bit of steam, and I'm still here,
aren't I?

> >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__

And maybe a bit better for it.  I've found the best and strongest of souls
weren't grown in a gentle garden, but in a harder soil full of stones.


Brad
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: hot bi babes
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:24:26 GMT

asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop) writes:

>	annemarie, who just got her hot femmy babe _victoria's_secret_
>		   catalog....

I wish they would throw in a few cute butch women (yum), I 'd like
the catalog so much more then.

iseult.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: 'women's' vs 'lesbain'
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:40:22 GMT


	to clarify my post, sometimes i am not sure how welcome i am
	in *women's* sapce.  'women's space' is often used as a euphemism
	for 'lesbian' space, as in, 'women's music' or sappho being a
	'women's newsgroup'.

	i am also sometimes not sure how welcome i am in lesbian space.
	it is often not clear if 'lesbian' means 'vanilla only women-
	born-women only excluively lesbian only' or what.  

	i usually try to go places i'm comfortable & work out ways to
	feel better about going places i want to go but may not be as
	comfy as i want.

	annemarie
	asuccop@u.washington.edu
From: pclary@radish.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:17:04 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

dente@els.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente) wrote...
>What's worse, it would seem that people have been gossiping about party 'photos.
>
>Just how incriminating *ARE* they?

There's a photo of you consorting with someone who's drinking a <*gasp*>
chocolate frog!!!!  

So how much is it worth to you to keep this quiet?

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Hetero/bi/homophobia (Was: Lesbian denial)
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:03:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.140223.9149@amhux2.amherst.edu>
     twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>Do you think that bisexuals, for example, are being
>short-sighted for limiting themselves to sex with human beings?

   Some of us think so!

         Elf !!!  (Kinsey 3, Doolittle 1)
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Well, here goes...
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:45:04 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

sr09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SIMON NICHOLAS RUSSELL) writes:
>Since I've been reading soc.bi for several months now, I feel it's about
>time I posted something and got involved.  Having denied my bisexual identity
>for somewhere in the region of thirteen years, and having only claimed it
>during March/April of this year, this isn't exactly the easiest e-mail I've
>ever composed.  I've e-mailed individual posters to soc.bi as steps towards
>coming out more extensively, and I would like to thank them for their help and
>support (they know who they are!).

:-) *blush*

>Looking forward to talking with you at last, and (dare I hope?) an encounter
>with the welcome wagon,

Looking forward to talking with you in public. Folks, this is one very nice
guy, even if his self-esteem is even lower than mine (if possible!). He is
thoughtful and sensitive and I am sure will make a positive contribution to
this community.

>Simon.

Welcome `out', Simon. Enjoy the fresh air.

And after months of private e-hugs, here's some e-PDA: *hug* *lick*
*snuggle* *stroke* ...


/jon
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_     One of the "merry scurrying       //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /     pixy folk"  (--John Fisher)      // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/__[B2t+w-g+svrp]___________________///////////  //
From: aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ireland Party (was Re: Muffin Alert!)
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:52:32 GMT
	<13v85qINNjks@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
	<1992Jul16.014124.49349@ccvax.ucd.ie>
	<145cmqINN88k@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> <iw.711753605@tosser>
	<14jvqvINNg42@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
Organization: Computer Science, University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <14jvqvINNg42@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> 
ELAINE@brownvm.brown.edu (Elaine M. Brennan) writes:
   
   In article <iw.711753605@tosser>, iw@tosser.Rational.COM 
   (Iseult White) said:

   >If any of you dare have a party in Ireland while I am  not there I will
   >.....................  Well I 'll think of something very nasty to do
   >you all.  And it won't be nasty/nice it will be nasty/nasty!
   >
   ><Enormous hint>  I should be London/Dublin in Sept.

   well, that certainly sounds like it would fit in with various other
   plans that I've heard...Ang?  Peter?

Well, you having seen him more recently that me (exactly how much
of Provincetown did you manage to see, BTW?), should know better than
I the exact plans for the autumn. However, I was under the definite
impression that you weren't going to be in Ireland until October.

Other than that, if my organization coughs up the squids, I'm probably
going to be in Limerick this September for the Irish AI conference. 

So, where's the party? And who's bringing the hancuffs?

<equally enormous hint> Where in London, when, for how long?

Ang
--
Angela Gilham.                 \ aag@aber.ac.uk \ "You should have fallen in
Department of Computer Science  \                \ love with a happy man, if 
University of Wales, Aberystwyth,\ +44 970 622433 \ you wanted happiness. But
Penglais, Aberystwyth,            \                \ you fell for the breath-
SY23 3BZ. United Kingdom.          \                \ taking beauty of pain."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Subject: Re: hot bi babes
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:43:27 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey


Re: the hot bi babes myth
This sort of comes under the stereotypes hurt us all banner.

I won't even consider sleeping with hetero men.  One of the reasons
is because of the 'hot bi babe' myth that we've been discussing.  
[Another is that I have a terrible time understanding someone who 
isn't intrigued with their own sex; who isn't curious about how 
it would be to be with someone who lives in the same kind of body 
- but I digress.]  My sexuality is for me, not for the consumption
of hetero males.

What's sad is that bi women being objectified by het men has made
me perpetually suspicious of het male attraction.

Who was it here that said she caught herself checking out a man
and saying to herself "Too bad he's probably not bi."  I like that.

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson)
Subject: Re: making waves (at work)
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:00:33 GMT
Keywords: BGLAD (Silentium = Mors)

In article <24000@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>kts@philabs.philips.com (Kimberley T. Smith) writes:
>
>>Hi folks, I need your support.
>
>>I decided to make waves today... at work!  I'm a little nervous, but I'm
>>feeling good in general...


Today, I decided to wear my "Non-Breeder" t-shirt with the pink triangle on
the chest.  (Please, no flames about the content of my shirt, it's beside
the point)  Anyway, since I'm a "silly servant", I sorta have to wear a
shirt and tie to work, so nobody could see it.  Of course, when I rode my 
bike home, I took my tie off and just wore my t-shirt.  Unfortunately, I
only passed a couple of people in the building on the way out, so the impact
was insubstantial, but I intend to do it again...and again, and again.

I'd like to have everyone in my office see me in it at least once, just to
say "yes, this is what I am...got a problem with it?", in a quiet, 
inobtrusive manner.  I'm hunting high and low for a tie with pink triangles
on it, but it may take me a while to find such a thing...

Just thought I'd share  c(-8

Daemon -- boy toy with an attitude


-- 
+ D.C.X. Ferguson, "Daemon"          Industry, Science & Technology Canada   +
+ grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca          Policy Sector                           +
+                                    Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA                 +
+        No tax dollars were expended to bring you this message              +
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Subject: Re: Hetero/bi/homophobia (Was: Lesbian denial)
Reply-To: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:48:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.213429.14628@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
> 
> 	If you place a person in a room full of homosexual people and
> 	that person feels panicy and distressed then that person can be
> 	said to be suffering from homophobia. In essence, homophobia is
> 	an _irrational_ _fear_ of homosexuality.
> 
> So, how about the term "heterophobia"? This would seem to suggest an
> _irrational_ dislike/fear of heterosexual people. And that's where my
> problem with this term lies. Often a GLB person's dislike/fear of
> heterosexual people has a firm basis rather than being irrational. As
> such, I think it does not make sense to refer to it as a phobia.
> 

You carefully evaded the major point of my article: fear of hetero-
eroticism and homoeroticism. I don't care if some fundie is a bit
antsy in a den of queens, but when some "we gotta prove our masculinity,
let's go bash some fags" young men (denying homoerotic feelings) go
on the rampage, there's a problem needing addressing. Its usually
feelings incongruent with one's identity that provoke such violent
actions. Incongruence happens in homosexuals too, resulting in biphobia,
fortunately not expressed in violence.

Psychologicly, when a feeling or behaviour does not match the image,
the choice is: change the image or change the behaviour. When it
comes to feelings, they can't easily be changed, but can be denied.
So, the obvious, logical choice is to change the image. Less stressful
and dishonest than denial in the long run.
> 
> Is it just me or does anybody else find this to be bisupremist?
> 
Yup. I'm mainly interested in being honest about feelings. Behaviour and
identity can be consistant despite feelings. Homosexuals that can
acknoledge having heteroerotic feelings and those that truley don't
are not a threat to bisexuals, its the ones in denial.

Mark - recovering white male