HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Path: dcs.ed.ac.uk!edcastle!uknet!warwick!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news
   From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
   Date: 12 Dec 92 07:13:47 GMT
   References: <1992Dec4.092228.26548@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> <dennis.723851619@metw3> <1g38ihINN5ei@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
   Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
   Lines: 51
   NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu


	   clearly, symbols are important and meaningful only "in context"...

	   ....BUT:


    alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Thorsten Altenkirch) wrote:
   > I don't think that outlawing things like the Hitlergruss and using
   > swastikas is resticting the freedom of speech.

	   that shows that you don't understand "freedom of speech"
	   (which one probably should agree is "defined" by the US constitition
	    for use anywhere, worldwide - so let's not play games about the
	    definition... ok?!!)

Hi Werner,

how did I escape your killfile???

I actually do not believe in eternal definitions, whether it is the
bible, the US-constitution or the UNIX user manual. However, as Erhard
Sanio wrote recently (Re: from a champion of free speech):

   In my opinion, there are two different philosophies which both have their
   merits and their problems. The Weimar republic was destroyed by people who
   openly announced that they would remove democracy as soon as the would get
   the opportunity. One of their tactics was lying and spreading slander faster
   than sensible people could produce rebuttals (Nazis are still working that
   way). Therefore, in Germany and several other European countries (e.g. France
   and Italy) the attitude exists that only people respecting the constitution
   or at least the underlying principles of human rights can demand the full
   protection of the constitution exercising those rights.
   
   The other attitude holds that ideas can only be fought by ideas, not by the
   police. While that is clearly true, the problem is how far lies, slander and
   hatemongering shall qualify as ideas. I am not really decided about that
   issue, to be honest.

From what I know from political discussions here in Britain it may
well be that the term "freedom of speech" (Meinungsfreiheit) is used
differently in anglo-saxon society and for example after-War Germany. 

--

 Thorsten Altenkirch         	And there's a hand, my trusty fiere,
 Laboratory for Foundations  	   And gie's a hand o' thine,
 of Computer Science 	      	And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught
 University of Edinburgh     	   For auld lang syne!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: baier@forwiss.uni-passau.de (Joern Baier)
Subject: Re: verschiedenes
Organization: Multikulturelle Gesellschaft n.e.V.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:11:00 GMT

In article <psima01.724086554@convex> psima01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Maisack) writes:
>
>etwa 50.000 Bauern demonstrierten in Bonn gegen den Gatt-Kompromiss. 
>etwas weniger gewalttaetig als in Strassbourg und Bruessel.
Aber reichlich militant sind sie doch, unsere Bauern!! Wenn bei einer
Demo von links derartige Krawalle auftreten, haetten wir binnen 24
Stunden einen Vorschlag Stoibers zur Verschaerfung des Demonstrations-
strafrechts auf dem Tisch. Mein Vorschlag an die Autonomen: Zieht eure
schwarze Kluft aus und verkleidet euch demnaechst mit Mistgabel und
Gummistiefeln als Bauern. Nehmt ein paar Schilder mit, so a la "GATT
ist scheisse" und "Kiechle ist doof" und schon habt ihr Narrenfreiheit.
-- 
* Joern Baier     (baier@forwiss.uni-passau.de) __o   *
* Jesuitengasse 9, D-W8390 Passau             _`\<,_  *
* Tel +49/851/35239                          (_)/ (_) *
From: laufer@math.luc.edu (Konstantin Laufer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: schweiz
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:38:53 GMT
Reply-To: laufer@math.luc.edu
Organization: Loyola University Chicago

In article <1992Dec15.195946.14100@bernina.ethz.ch>, karrer@bernina.ethz.ch (Andreas Karrer) writes:
> >> Wie kann man die schweizer Staatsbuergerschaft erlangen, 
> [...]
> der film "die schweizermacher" (mit emil steinberger) muss als dokumentar-
> film (und nicht etwa als parodie) angesehen werden.
> 
> eine schweizerin/einen schweizer heiraten macht's einfacher.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^

Ich dachte, nur wenn eine Frau einen Schweizer heiratet.  Der Grimolli
in den Schweizermachern ist doch mit einer Italo-Schweizerin
verheiratet, muss sich aber trotzdem bewerben wie die anderen auch.
Wurde das inzwischen geaendert?

-- 
-Konstantin 	             "Es isch es Chogge Zue-ueg mit dene Chaibe Boelle,
[laufer@math.luc.edu]		         die branned choggemaessig i die Auge."
Loyola University Chicago		                 -- Die Schweizermacher
From: nitin@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: PhD+postdoc(robotics) looking for position
Date: 15 Dec 92 11:52:49 +1300
Reply-To: IN%"nitin@waikato.ac.nz"
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand



	Sub: Research or teaching position in robotics/electronics/
	     computer science area


	I am interested in working in German research/academic institutions
	as a researcher or lecturer in the above mentioned areas. Following 	
	is a brief description of my qualifications and experience.

	After obtaining my Ph D in Mechanical Engineering with specialization
	in robotics (University of Canterbury, New Zealand, Oct 1990), I am
	working as a Postdoctoral Fellow in the Department of Computer
	Science (University of Waikato, New Zealand). During this time I have 
	been working on the development of a robotics laboratory in the 
	parallel processing group. The work involved: 1. Development of a 
	workcell consisting of a SCARA robot and assembly tools. 2. Design 
	and construction of a transputer based distributed controller for 
	the SCARA robot.

	I am  proficient in programming languages: C(2 years),Turbo Pascal
	(3 years) and parallel C (2 years, for the transputers) plus 
	working knowledge of assembly language. Proficient developing 
	environments: DOS, UNIX and Windows. I am also familiar with other 
	software development tools such as OPENWINDOWS, SUNVIEW, MSWINDOWS, 
	PALASM AND SPSSX. 

	Because of professional and academic experience in Engineering and
	Computer Science, I am able to teach and conduct research in various
	interdisciplinary subjects such as: Digital signal processing, 
	Robotics, Vision systems and Real time processing.
		
	I can email full CV if required.

	Dr Nitin Afzulpurkar
	Department of Computer Science
	University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand
	email: IN%"nitin@waikato.ac.nz" Fax : +64 7 8384155
	
	

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: What about "free" speech
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:05:05 GMT

In article <Dec.16.11.24.01.1992.18352@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, deatz@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gregory H Deatz) writes:
> 
> I posted a few articles regarding free speech when we were discussing
> Mr. Godfrey, etc... I happened to mention that it was wrong to take
> away his internet account because he was exercising his free speech.
> 
> Several people who read this newsgroup have responded to my article,
> as well as others, refuting the possible suggestion that Godfrey
> shouldn't have had his account taken away.
> 
Well of course you wouldn't expect the German notion of
free speech to include criticism of the Germans themselves.
"Ve haf vays of making you not talk" -
including lying to your system administrator and then
running when we are exposed.

Of course the Germans fool no-one but themselves and a few stupid
American posters 

Laurence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: tnielson@spock.NMSU.Edu (THORIN NIELSON)
Subject: Vol Gefchliffener Narren Spiegel (?help?)
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:08:02 GMT


I am not a regular reader of this group.

I am, however, in possesion of a book with this title?!?? It's a collection of  
woodcuts and lithographs of a very interesting and bizarre nature as well as  
poems or allegories? I am thoroughly confused and I can't read a word of it  
except "spiegel". I am not in any way familiar with German, but this means  
"mirror" doesn't it? (this comes from the depths of my great store of trivial  
knowledge). Could someone please reply directly to me in the next week (12-12  
to 12-17)? I would be very appreciative. 

Thorin Nielson --
From: alti@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Thorsten Altenkirch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: wienerisch dama redn
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:31:00 GMT
Organization: LFCS, Edinburgh

In article <1992Dec16.134133.6072@siemens.co.at> barba@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Barbara Nowak-Teufl) writes:

   Volkmar Koch (masc0100@rohan.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu) wrote:
   > The next lines don't represent my opinion, I have posted it for a friend,
   > so don't blame me!!
   > 
   > Liebe Freunde der Deutschen Sprache!
		       ^
   ...

   > Warum posted ihr das nicht lieber in europe.jokes, vielleicht waere das die
   > richtige newsgroup.

   Den Naumen Piefke hasd da oba wiakli vadiend. Wiasd scho no auf di Go foin.

Piefke, so hie\3 doch der Bo\3 der BVG (Berliner Verkehrs
Gemeinheit)?! Wieso posted der jetzt hier? 

Hier is mein Senf: Ick wee\3 ja nich was dit mit die deutsche Sprache
zu tun hat, aba es jibt sowieso nur eene deutsche Metropole! Und die
is imma noch anner Spree!


--

 Thorsten Altenkirch         	And there's a hand, my trusty fiere,
 Laboratory for Foundations  	   And gie's a hand o' thine,
 of Computer Science 	      	And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught
 University of Edinburgh     	   For auld lang syne!
From: allanp@BNR.CA (Allan Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: How racit are the germans?
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:25:46 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom
X-Xxdate: Fri, 18 Dec 92 11:26:03 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

In article <1gr231INN4bo@meaddata.meaddata.com> Kai Rudloff,
kai@meaddata.com writes:
>|> |> German these days, yet I cannot help but feel that racism itself
is not THAT
>|> |> widespread, but I really would like to hear more from other people
on the 
>|> |> net.
>|> |> 
>|> |> Tony DeSouza                                                      
    \ | /
>|>
>|> Well bully for you!  The beauty of your humanity is only uglied by the
>|> fact that you would rather label someone else racist, yourself pure
and
>|> deny them the opprotunity to change. Answer the question first!  Then
> 
>So what's the question?

Tony asked for opinions on racism in Germany, not for opinions on his
level of racism. Simple question.

>
>|> judge, but keep these silly commentaries silenced until you have at
more
>|> than three lines of a hastily written question to make judgements by.
>|> 
>|> I would also like to hear some intelligent responses to the initial
>|> question.
>|> Thanks in advance to all those who reply.
>
>I never saw a question, and you might want to take a little less haste
>in what you post before you insult my relatives and my intelligence.
>If you had said your actions were done out of protest, then I would
>have taken it differently and encouraged it.
>

Learn to read, I never insult your relatives.  I never insulted your
intelligence.
I insulted your inability to respond to a request for help. 

By the way, the last part of your response answered Tony's question. Way
to go.  Thinking before you write, a skill under-utilised on most nets.
 
Allan Phillips
"Whose opinions are rarely his own but never his employers!"

"Hell, sure you can take a number, can't hurt,
  since I have no intention of talking to you anyway".
From: anlyyao@igc.apc.org (An-Ly Yao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Frage zu DATEX-P: change passwd.
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:28:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1473000062:000:497
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Dec 19 15:28:00 1992


Bin z.Zt. auf Urlaub in Deutschland und habe mein DATEX-P Manual
in Korea liegengelassen. Inzwischen habe ich 'rausbekommen, wie
ich in DATEX-P einlogge. Ich habe eine NUI (A und B). Es gibt da auch
2 unterschiedliche Login Prozeduren:
    (1) N<A><B>-NUA
    (2) NUI <A>
        <B>
        NUA

Aber nun moechte ich meine NUI B aendern. Kann mir jemand sagen, wie
das geht fuer PADs, die Login (1) benoetigen und fuer PADs, die ich
mit Login (2) benutzen kann?

Goetz Kluge
Wiesbaden 1992/12/19
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: trust the Canadians....
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:22:08 GMT

In article <1gamogINNsao@rave.larc.nasa.gov>, steinhau@ns.larc.nasa.gov (Uwe K. Steinhau) writes:
> I'm sick of German bashing (I, as well as most of the Germans have done 
> nothing to deserve that), of hearing what terrible and barbaric human beings 
> we are, and hearing that I owe the entire Jewish community for the rest of my 
> life. I owe NOTHING, not to anyone. PERIOD. I have as much to do with the 
> holocaust as I have with the assassination of Julius Caesar. I am a human 
> being who tries to live peacefully - like a great many Germans. It is 
> instigators like G. who get tempers flaring, and stir up hatred. Face it, 
> there are people out there, who don't start to hate G. for what G. writes, 
> they generalize, and hate Jews for what G. writes.  G. is so narrow-minded 
> that he simply CANNOT understand that his actions can lead to coaxing  people 
> into doing just that....but maybe that's what he wants. Seems to me 
> generalization is his forte.
> 
> I think the original message that started all this went like:
> 
> 				"GERMANY - BEWARE"
> 
> Absolutely correct, GERMANY - BEWARE of your future and be aware of your past.
>  
> *but also*
> 
> GERMANY - BEWARE of arrogant sado-racist bigots like G.
> 
Yes it was the original message, but it wasn't from me.  It was from someone
at Weizman in Israel.

You're sick of German-bashing and I'm sick of Germans.

Laurence
From: lang@igc.apc.org (Andrew Lang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: _Inside the Third Reich_ by Albert
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:39:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:92349.175152L98CC@cunyvm.bitnet:-174398551:cdp:1473000061:000:502
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!lang    Dec 18 07:39:00 1992


Bob, I agree with your post, but is it certain that Speer supervised
the constructin of the crematoria and gas chambers at the extermination
camps? The camps were under the jurisdiction of the SS, which would
have assigned contracts through its own economic office. I don't 
believe that Speer's ministry would necessarily have been involved or
consulted.

(Not to set aside Speer's guilt for building up the Nazi war machine
or his collaboration in the use of slave labor by his ministry.)

Andy Lang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: kparekh@uceng.uc.edu (Ketan Parekh)
Subject: Need penpals on email
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:41:48 GMT

Hi!
	I am a graduate student in Civil Engg. at University of Cincinnati,
 Cincinnati, OH. I am basically an Indian and am interested in Germany and its
people. I don't know German and know very less about Germany. But would like to
pick up a bit of German. I am 25 year old male and I am interested in music,
sports(soccer, hiking and trekking and swimming) and reading. Would like to
have German penpals. If interested please write to me at kparekh@uceng.uc.edu
Hoping to hear from you.
Ketan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Subject: Re: ASYLBEWERBER TATSACHEN
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:46:01 GMT

fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Lothar Fritsch) writes:
>y41@aix320c.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood) writes:
>[...] 
>:As you can clearly see, the Asylbewerber commit WAY more crimes than 
>:foreigners and more importantly, Germans.

>Well, but what would 100,000 Germans do if you put them in camps, don't allow
>them to work 

This indeed a problem..

>and to go where they want? I'm sure they'd take drugs and steal things, too.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But this is not true. They are NOT centralized, they live in Hotels, 
Appartments, Houses, whatever tha particular city could organize.
And of course they can go where they want.

But anyway, regardless of the roots and reasons for these numbers,
Jeffrey describes (correctly, IMHO) that we've got a problem. 
And it doesn't help to reason, that it's not the fault of these
people. In the End we have to solve that problem.
The only chance to keep some kind of Asylum open here is to restrict
access to those who really need it.

Looking away and hoping the problems disappear will not solve anything.

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr

-- 
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de 
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. 0631/205-3391                    |           D-6750 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: _Inside the Third Reich_ by Albert Speer
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:31:57 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Dec15.011103.10755@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George) writes:

>     Shirer was a journalist. Perhaps he infused RFTR with a journalistic
> style which favorably impressed the journalists who wrote popular magazine
> reviews.

Shirer's years as a Berlin correspondent during the 30's left him very
hostile to Germans as a people.  On occasion it surfaces even in his
more sholarly work.  When RFTR came out the German press returned the favor 
with scathing reviews.  

He also wrote "Berlin Diary" which is quite fascinating.

Incidently, "Inside the Third Reich" was titled "Memoiren" in German.

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: wienerisch dama redn
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:56:47 GMT

In article <1gnkd2INNq6l@nz12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> hi61@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Dreck) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.134133.6072@siemens.co.at>, barba@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Barbara Nowak-Teufl) writes:
>|> Dir dasselbe - aa waun ees Deitschn ollas sooo eanst nemz.
>|> Barbara Nowak-Teufl 		barba@patty.gud.siemens.co.at
>
>Da frage ich mich aber, wer hier was zu ernst nimmt. Mit Schimpfwoertern
>bist Du jedenfalls schnell bei der Hand.

Meiner Meinung nach war Barbara's Artikel intelligent, amuessant, und
nicht im Geringsten beleidigend (vor Allem im Vergleich zu Deiner Antwort).

>Hast Du Probleme mit Deutschen?

Offensichtlich mit bestimmten humorlosen deutschen Spiessbuergern, aber ich
sehe keine Andeutung das Sie adererweisse Deutschen etwas entgegen hat.

>Damit wir uns nicht falsch verstehen: Ihr koennt soviel Wienerisch posten
>wie Ihr wollt, mich stoert es nicht, zumal es nicht weniger intelligent ist
>als der Durchschnitt der restlichen Artikel.
>(Das Wort "weniger" ist relativ zu verstehen, nicht absolut.)

Im Gegenteil zu Deinem Artikel, der in Intelligenz, Humor, und gutem Anstand,
wesentlich unter dem Durchschnitt liegt. 

--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de (Roland Stahl)
Subject: Re: Neo-Nazi Information
Reply-To: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de
Organization: IPI University of Hannover
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:13:53 GMT

ah113@yfn.ysu.edu (Alex R. Henkel) writes:
>Neo-Nazi information wanted for a school report.
>Statistics, anecdotes, and any other pertinent information appreciated.


For actual informations read the "Spiegel" edition of Dec. 7th.
It should be available at every big Train Station or Airport book store.

rst
email: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: zxmkr08@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Cornelius Krasel)
Subject: Re: Information for trip to Germany...
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:48:52 GMT

In <1992Dec14.233908.26169@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> rschoen@mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Reinhard Schoen) writes:

>In article <U9S9FZV@hp832.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
>holz@obelix.fb-inf2 (E. Holz) writes:

>|> >I heard it is usual in USA to get your coffee cup refilled for free.
>|> >I'd appreciate German restaurants to do so!
>|> 
>|> Did you ever drink american "coffee" ?

>No - does it somehow resemble Saxonian "Bliemchengaffee"?
>That's a coffee you can see the flowers imprinted on the
>inside of the cup through.

Soweit ich weiss, gibt es auch noch Schwerterkaffe (der so duenn ist,
dass man die Schwerter auf der Unterseite der Tasse sehen kann) und
Doppelschwerterkaffe (der so duenn ist, dass man die Schwerter auf der
Unterseite der Untertasse sehen kann, die anderen natuerlich auch).
Funktioniert leider wohl bloss mit Meissner Prozellan... :-)

Cornelius.
--
/* Cornelius Krasel, Department of Physiological Chemistry, U Tuebingen    */ 
/* email: krasel@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Internet)   HAS CHANGED!!  */
/*        NO WIN/X400 MAIL POSSIBLE AT THE MOMENT!                         */
/* "People are DNA's way of making more DNA." (R. Dawkins / anonymous)     */
From: deatz@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gregory H Deatz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: What about "free" speech
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:12:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

smuench@i61s4.ira.uka.de (Stefan Muench) writes:

>In principle, I share your opinion about free speech. But as far as I know,
>not all people in the USA do. I've heard about mothers who are thinking that
>some stuff musicians are singing on their LPs and CDs may not be suitable for
>their children. What do you know/think about that?
>-- 

People can lobby as much as they want to prompt the legislature to make it harder to purchase albums with explicit lyrics, but this is not the speech freedom
I am talking about.

I am talking about BANNING a particular thought or comment completely from 
every aspect of public life.

What do you know/think about that?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: Michael.Schwuchow@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Michael Schwuchow)
Subject: Re: Autobahns uber Alles!!
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:40:44 GMT

icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking) writes:

>In <unhealth.723873638@mcl> unhealth@mcl.ucsb.edu (Kristian Dunn) writes:

>>Hitler did make the first network of Autobahns [...]

>Not true; the first Autobahns were already built in the beginning of
>the 20's.

>The next rumor is that Autobahns had military purposes at that time.

>Again not true: they were not strong enough to carry tanks etc. All that
>was transported via railway.
>Werner
Tanks? I thought they were inventing during the second WW. When the
Autobahns (intern vomit) where build, the tanks were "heavy armoured cars".
Or am I wrong?
Micha
-- 
!   Michael Schwuchow  Oldenburg, FRG/RFA/BRD  UUCP: schwuchow@uniol.UUCP  !
-Autofahren ist asozial:   Mit anderen Verkehrsmitteln kommt man gesuender,-
-umweltschonender, kommunikativer, platzsparender, volkswirtschaftlich -----
-billiger, und (mit Finanzbedarfszeitaufwand) meist schneller ans Ziel. ----

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german