HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: perlman@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Schwinn Chapter 11
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:25:06 GMT
Reply-To: perlman@smtc00.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center

I heard this am about Schwinn's severe financial problems.  An NPR
interview of bicycle business analyst indicated difficulties were
due to the way Schwinn sells through its own distribution rather
than mimic Huffy and Murray approaches to mass merchants.  The analyst
felt that problems were not related to foreign competition.  He feels
that the name *Schwinn* is a very big asset.  

Subsequent commentary included fond reflections of the popular models
from 40 to 60 years ago with only the slightest mention of their
Paramount.  Perhaps this indicates that the problem may lie in the
company's failure to recognize changing consumer trends.

Any Scwinn customers comments would be appreciated.  Any bike dealers
opinions?

Rich.
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Racing in Europe or elsewhere
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:30:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom

In article <jbr1.719156746@Ra.MsState.Edu> jbr1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jarryl B. Ritchie) writes:
>I have a rider who is interested in racing in Europe or elsewhere sometime
>in the spring as a month long tune up for the '93 season.  Any suggestions
>and information about such arangements would be appreciated.  I attempted
>to make a similar trip several years back and have some idea of the logistics
>but would welcome other suggestions and information.
>thanks
>jay

What do you mean by 'Springtime' Jay?  If you're talking about Feb. -
March then the training camps between Aix-En-Provence and Nice are
great.  Of course you'll need a French club and a French license to
race.  I've heard there's some good early training in Italy too but
it's much more difficult to get a license there as a foreigner.

After mid-March the season begins in northern Europe.  Holland,
Belgium, France, Switzerland and Italy all have good races.  Many
international amateurs spend March / April / May racing the classics
in the regions surrounding Paris.  Good weekday races are also common in
these areas as well as Belgium and Holland.  You can use an international
license for the classics but, again, you'll need a French/etc. license for
the weekday races.

After June Belgium is _the_ place to be.  I like eastern Belgium,
around Liege, for the hills and French language.  Just about anywhere
in Belgium has racing 4/5 times a week within 50km of anywhere.  You
don't need a Belgian license (after mid-June) but you can avoid the 
insurance surtax if you have one.  Lots of English speaking riders hang 
out in western Belgium which can be nice if you don't speak Flemish (Dutch).

Your best bet would be to find someone who's been over there recently
and has some good contacts.  You might be able to stay with a family
or find a cheap room in an all cycling house/hotel.  Be prepared for
the cultural differences (bring a radio/tape deck and lots of good
reading) and some cold wet weather (except in Southern France).

You'll be amazed at the level of cycling proficiency over there.
Coming back can be a shocker though.  After learning all those tricks
you'll feel let down at our 'amateurish' races.  You'll never regret
it though!

Roger (marquis@netcom.com)
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: La Vuelta a Dia de la Raza (Chihuahua, Mexico)
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:15:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Jim Warsa (warsa@polaris.unm.edu) writes:

> and while Kent was actually third, he was placed fourth.

> and they gave Youshimatz third, although he got fourth,

> The rider from Delicias ... got a 
> mysterious 20 second time bonus that put him into the lead on G.C. 

> at the start of the next stage, Brij saw the Juez (judge)
> subtract five seconds from his time

> They just stood around us and looked at us.

Much mysteriousness.


> It turns out that the Mexican
> government sponsored the race as part of their support of local sports.

Mystery solved. Nothing like a little jingoism in the officiating, eh? Hey 
Les, hozabout we start doing this in the Tour DuPont?


> It was one of the best races I have attended. 

That's good, anyway.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: roadman@leland.Stanford.EDU (arthur walker)
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 03:02:04 GMT

Les Earnest describes scenarios wherein riders lapped by a lead rider
(or, implicitly I think, a small lead group or even the field) may have,
prior to the recent rule change, scored in multi-place primes.  

I'm not sure, but I think when he referred to cases in which the rider
did not "properly earn" the prime award, he meant the case in which
a rider is overtaken or lapped during a lap defined for the overtaking
group as a prime lap (the bell is rung for the overtaking rider or group).
It's been common practice to exclude such overtaken rider(s) from
such primes awarded at the end of such laps, but I don't know whether
this was explicit in the old rules.  Perhaps on the basis of common
practice, I would agree that any award given would not be "properly
earned".

However, whether newly excluded cases in which rider(s) is/are overtaken
shortly before the start of the prime lap and subsequently cross the
line in advanced enough a position at its end to score are not cases
of properly earned awards is unclear.  For many years, Stanford riders
in fields small enough to allow completion by all have been coached,
if dropped, to be overtaken just prior to the next bell lap (the lap
numbers of which are to be announced prior to the race by statute).

This may seem like insanity, or a situation which must never occur,
but many great sprinters are not constituted to hang with a lead
pack in hilly crits and it seems to me that in ringing the bell one
lap prior to the awarding of primes we implicitly declare the period
of "earning" to fall within that lap; and so I'm chagrined to see the
rule change as it did.  Both Les's and Casey's suggested texts seem
fine to me.

Sorry if this sounds like just so much collegiate arcana.

art walker
"coach", SU cycling team
ahw@egret0.stanford.edu
From: cmanry@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Charles (skip) W. Manry Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Net.Powerbar.recipe.book
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:31:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: serval.1992Oct13.153142.17511
Organization: Washington State University!

In article <1992Oct12.160230.29367@netcom.com> marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis) writes:
>
>Skip,
>
>Why go to the trouble of mixing, baking, whatever when good ol'
>bananas, dried pears, fig bars, etc. can be found in any grocery
>store.  They might not have a super-optimal secret formula but they'll
>do the trick.
>
>Roger (marquis@netcom.com)

Roger, 

Thanks for the info.  However I have a handle bar bag.  Bananas turn to mush
in there.  I *hate* fig bars, etc.  Plus I like to cook.  I am looking for 
something like a endro-bar that I can fish out and eat on the fly.  

My intent is not to flame.  I welcome *all* comments.  The more Ideals I can
get the better!  Please e-mail me any other follow up's to my original 
article and this one.  I do not always take the time to read all the groups.

Skip.
ps.  You'll be seeing my message here again with the follow up message 
     attatched.  Plus I'm going to rename it Net.endro.bar.recipe.book
     That way I don't look like I endorsing Powerbars.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%  Charles W. Manry  / cmanry@nextasy2.eecs.wsu.edu    %  Vote "Cthulhu" in   %
%  Dept of Electrical Engineering and Computer Sci.    %  1992.  Why vote for %
%  Washington State University, Pullman WA 99164-2752  %  the *lesser* evil!  %
%  ** Opinions expressed here do not in any way    **  %                      %
%  ** reflect that of my department or supervisors **  %  From rec.games.frp  %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: La Vuelta a Dia de la Raza (Chihuahua, Mexico)
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:28:51 GMT

In article <mlppqq@lynx.unm.edu> warsa@polaris.unm.edu (j warsa) writes:
>The following is a race report describing the La Vuelta a Dia de La Raza
>(Tour of the Day of the People) in the Chihuahua province of Northern 
>Mexico held on 9-12 October 1992. ...

Good race report!!  Thanks.

And congratulations to you and your team.

>The Seventh Annual La Vuelta a Dia de la Raza ... is traditionally
>used for preparation by Mexican riders for their national Tour of
>Mexico, beginning later this  month. 

Now that you, too, are prepared, are you going to ride that one, too?
Whether you do or not, send any information you hear about it, please.
You know as well as anyone how hard it is to get news on North
American racing.  Hell, any news in North America about bicycle racing
anywhere.

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: Net.Powerbar.recipe.book
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: Netcom 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:02:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.041744.21355@serval.net.wsu.edu> cmanry@luke.wsu.edu (Charles (skip) W. Manry Jr.) writes:
>
>"Powerbars".  This weekend I tried out a product called "Cliff Bars".  It
>was like this very dense oatmeal cookie.  
>
>So I had an ideal [ a risky thing )-> ].  Why couldn't I make/bake my own
>"Power bars"!?!.  
>
>So mail me your recipes to cmanry@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu and I put them all 
>together and post 'em.  I call it the Net.Powerbar.recipe.book  So send
>those recipes to me.  All who send me a recipe will get there recipe listed
>in the book and their name so we all know who to thank.

Skip,

Why go to the trouble of mixing, baking, whatever when good ol'
bananas, dried pears, fig bars, etc. can be found in any grocery
store.  They might not have a super-optimal secret formula but they'll
do the trick.

Roger (marquis@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: edm@tahoe.asd.sgi.com (Ed Miszkiewicz)
Subject: Klein Frame For Sale
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:54:55 GMT

        KLEIN QUANTIM FRAME FOR SALE
        ----------------------------

55 cm (Klein's measurement), brand new, unpainted,
comes with aluminum fork, bottom bracket,
will ship $400.00 + shipping
call Ed Miszkiewicz (415)390-1076
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:40:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: msc.1992Oct9.154013.15236
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu

From article <102600009@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, by khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine):
> In rec.bicycles.racing, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> 
>> I hope that there is plenty of climbing next year. It's time for the
>> climbers to get a chance 
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly.  I would love to see Andy Hampsten have a real
> chance to win a Tour with more climbs and less ITTs.
> 
As long as there are TT's worthy of the Tour (not necessarily 65 km long, btw)
I doubt very much that the pure climbers, the Hampstens, Millars, and 
Claveyrolats, have much of a chance of winning the whole thing.

Just my .02

Dave
From: loucks@isrc.sandia.gov (Cliff Loucks)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Summary of changes in USCF regulations
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:25:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM

Terry Thiel:
> Blah, blah, blah.  What has the USCF done to increase the enjoyment of our
> sport?  When are they going to get beyond their emphasis on bureacratic
> management of a handful of people.  What a bunch of weenies.
> -Terry

Now this is really helpful, intelligent response.  Now tell us,
Terry, what have you done to increase the enjoyment of out sport?

Cliff
-- 

Cliff Loucks  <=>  loucks@isrc.sandia.gov
Sandia National Labs, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 17:59:21 GMT
Reply-To: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)

In article <1992Oct16.020239.27503@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
|> Bruce Hildenbrand argues against lapped riders being eligible for
|> primes thusly:
|>    .  .  .
|>    As I said before, I think it is unfair to take money
|>    away from the leaders of a race and give it to other
|>    racers who have not performed as well.  I don't see this
|>    happening in any other sport, why should we do this in
|>    bike racing?
|> 
|> I agree with Bruce that it is fairer to exclude lapped riders from
|> primes, but there is a pragmatic reason for making them eligible:
|> to do otherwise can make it very difficult to pick the prime winners.
|> For example, suppose a group of twelve riders breaks away and gains a
|> lap on a field of 50 riders.  Now how are you going to pick the
|> first one of those 12 riders on the prime sprint?
|> 
|>    I will restate my original example and say that one year
|>    at the Coors Classic, I witnessed the Italians sitting
|>    up and resting a few laps, then getting back into the pack
|>    and sprinting for primes that reached almost $1000 in value.
|>    Is there anybody out ther in net land that thinks this is
|>    fair?  If so, why?
|> 
|> If Bruce is thinking of the same incident that I recall, some Italian
|> riders were hanging out in the back alley of North Boulder Park and
|> were giving lead-outs to their principal sprinter(s).  As I recall,
|> the sprinters were not going down laps but their lead-outs were, which
|> makes the whole thing even more complicated.

I, for one, think that it's okay for lapped riders to sprint for primes.
Primes are not necessarily for the "leaders" of the race.  Winning a
prime is definitely different from winning the race.  I know people
who race only for the primes, or they win a couple of primes and
then drop out.  Also, if a lapped rider can win a prime, then I 
guess they were a little better than I thought--or maybe they had
a mishap and weren't able to get back with the pack in time.

Leigh Ann
tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov   

|> Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
|> UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: no Alpe d'Huez on 93 Tour!!!
Date: 15 Oct 1992 20:36:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1992Oct15.015728.14946@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>Bruce Hildenbrand (bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM) writes:
>
>> For those of you into gearing, Andy said he rode a 39x23...
>
>Did Andy have anything repeatable to say about LeMond's performance?

Yes.  If you remember in the 1991 Tour de France(TIOOYK), LeMond only
lost 20 seconds to Indurain in the first time trial, in 1992, he
lost 4 minutes.

Andy said that LeMond looked very concerned the day after the 1st
time trial and that his morale really suffered from then on.

Bruce's thought: most likely LeMond realized that he was not going
to be able to win the TdF and his already shakey mental outlook
did him in.  The other people I talked with in Europe seemed to agree
that is was LeMond's mental preparation/state that forced him
to retire, not a physical problem.

Bruce reiterates another thought: LeMond's performance's in the 1991
and 1992 Tours de France in no way diminishes the other incredible
performance he has shown in his career(3 wins in both the TdF and
the World Championships just to name a few!).

Bruce

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Rule Change for 1993: Lapped riders not eligible for primes
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<ldjed8INN9n4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
	<1992Oct15.032426.3946@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<ldrkv4INNhbn@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:02:39 GMT

Bruce Hildenbrand argues against lapped riders being eligible for
primes thusly:
   .  .  .
   As I said before, I think it is unfair to take money
   away from the leaders of a race and give it to other
   racers who have not performed as well.  I don't see this
   happening in any other sport, why should we do this in
   bike racing?

I agree with Bruce that it is fairer to exclude lapped riders from
primes, but there is a pragmatic reason for making them eligible:
to do otherwise can make it very difficult to pick the prime winners.
For example, suppose a group of twelve riders breaks away and gains a
lap on a field of 50 riders.  Now how are you going to pick the
first one of those 12 riders on the prime sprint?

   I will restate my original example and say that one year
   at the Coors Classic, I witnessed the Italians sitting
   up and resting a few laps, then getting back into the pack
   and sprinting for primes that reached almost $1000 in value.
   Is there anybody out ther in net land that thinks this is
   fair?  If so, why?

If Bruce is thinking of the same incident that I recall, some Italian
riders were hanging out in the back alley of North Boulder Park and
were giving lead-outs to their principal sprinter(s).  As I recall,
the sprinters were not going down laps but their lead-outs were, which
makes the whole thing even more complicated.

After that race, as I recall, the chief commissaire (Artie Greenberg)
fined the Italian team a substantial sum, but not as much as they had
won by this "tactic."

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:428 rec.bicycles:23148 rec.bicycles.rides:283
From: jaslow@bissun.kodak.com (Russell Jaslow)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.rides
Subject: An indepth look into ultra-marathon cyclists, Dennis DeLong.
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:16:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Oct13.141644.12816
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Originator: jaslow@bissun

Have you ever wondered what it was like to participate in a 3000 mile
bicycle race?  Or wanted to peek into the secret training diary of someone
crazy enough to race 3,000 miles?  Pondered what a person thinks about or
even fantasizes about (PG, R, and even X rated) after he has ridden
without sleep for days?  Wondered about how much pain and suffering the
human body can take?  (You'd be amazed!!)  Wanted to attempt something
like this but wasn't sure if you had what it takes?  Or just plain WHY?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, then follow 1992 Midwest
Qualifier winner Dennis DeLong through his newsletter as he prepares to
compete in the 1993 Race Across AMerica (RAAM).  To help finance this 
grueling event, Dennis is publishing a newsletter that will detail his
training, fund raising efforts, inner thinking, and all the current
news as he receives it from RAAM headquarters.

There will be five (5) issues to be sent out in February, April, June,
July, and then a follow-up edition after the race.  A $20 donation will
help get Dennis to the starting line next summer.

If you wish to help Dennis DeLong in his quest to win RAAM '93, please
send your $20 donation to:
                     
                    Dennis DeLong
                    370 McCall Road
                    Rochester, NY  14616

Don't miss out on this opportunity to find out first hand the effort,
dedication, pain, and joy of preparing to meet the challange of perhaps
the toughest endurance event in the world.

[Note -- I'm posting this for Dennis.  You may email me any questions,
and I will get them to Dennis.]
-- 
Russell Jaslow         |Spec Racer #33 Finger Lakes Reg|NY RANGERS|My employer
Eastman Kodak Company  |In memorium: Andrew Spiller,   |and the   |has nothing
Rochester, New York    |Cynthia Bishop Halstead.  Keep |Cup!  Why |to do with
jaslow@bissun.kodak.com|the damn drunks off our roads! |not dream?|my drivel.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Alcala's teammates at Wordperfect
From: Willem Boersma <SOND0091@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 13 Oct 1992 14:51:20 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

"So who are on Alcala's team? The Brainless want to know."
 
A question not so easily answered, because these transfers are reported
on a day-to-day basis in Dutch newspapers, and I don't keep a list.
Fortunately, last week there was an overview.
So these are Wordperfect's teammembers:
 
Leftover from Buckler (some had a contract with another team already
with a clause that Raas could claim them if he could come up with a sponsor):
Kokkelkoren, Maassen, Mulders, Nijdam, Zuyderwijk (all Dutch),
Segers, Edwig van Hooydonck, VanderAerden (Bel).
 
New: Alcala (Mex, PDM) , Ledanois and Moncassin (Fra, Castorama), Moreels
(Bel, Lotto?) De Koning (Neth, Panasonic), Erik Dekker (Neth, neo,
Olympic silver winner), Runkel (Swiss, neo), Daelmans (neo).
 
A strong team, certainly for the classics, but Alcala may lack some
support in the mountains in the big Tours.
 
There are a lot of Dutch pro riders that don't have a contract for next
year. Peter Post has signed a French sponsor (Novemail, no new email program
but some kind of paint) and has so far only taken Eddy Bouwmans. Knuvers,
Van Orsouw, Van de Vin and Vink got the sack. Also without a contract
so far:
Buckler: Eyk, Goense, Poels, Solleveld.
PDM: van Aert, Van den Akker, Hendriks, Jakobs, Verhoeven, Vos.
Lotus: Akkermans, Hermans, Suykerbuyk.
TVM: Jan Siemons, Marc Siemons, Van der Pas.
Tulip: Kools, Meijs, Pieters, Adri van der Poel, Jac van der Poel.
Z/Gan: Johan Lammerts.
 
Other moves: Hanegraaf (Panasonic -> Telekom), Rooks (Buckler -> Lotus)
Wiebren Veenstra (Buckler -> US, I forgot which team) Breukink (PDM -> Once)
Talen (PDM -> TVM) De Vries (Buckler -> TVM) Cordes (PDM -> Amaya)
Den Bakker (PDM -> TVM) Danny Nelissen (PDM -> TVM)
 
Lotus will also take Lino, Virenque, Dojwa and Marie (all French).
 
All in all pretty confusing. I presume many of these riders will still
get a contract. Among those who have no contract yet, there are a few
big names (Van der Poel, Hermans once won six stages in the Vuelta), but
more faithful domestiques who now fall victim of the FICP-point system.
Johan Lammerts is perhaps the best example. This loyal servant of Greg
Lemond obviously was of no interest for the new sponsors of the Z team,
insurance company GAN. Others who spring to mind are Toine Poels and
Jan Siemons. That means no Sauna Diana bus in The Tour this year.
(The Siemons family runs a classy whorehouse, and they always came
to the tour with a luxury bus that somehow always attracted a lot of
attention ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Willem Boersma                           Bitnet:SOND0091@HASARA11
SARA                                     Internet:wboersma@sara.nl
Academic Computing Services Amsterdam
The Netherlands                          "Suit yourself - I'm easy"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing