HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Our parents and spanking  Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 8 Nov 92 04:19:46 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

> davids@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (David Schwantner) writes:
>. Anyway, I really need to think about how we can still
>teach our children the sacred nature of their own bodies, and yet
>convey to them that there are certain consequences to their actions;
>one of which is the discomfort of a spanking. 

This sentence really bothers me.  Why should the discomfort of a
spanking be a consequence of their actions?  And how can that possibly
be reconciled with the "sacred nature of their bodies"?

Everyone who's been reading my input on the spanking issue knows that
I don't think it's appropriate to spank children, and also knows that
I've managed to express my views without flaming.  

(hey jlt--I don't need a timeout :-)  BUT, I took one before answering
this post, and I'm still just as distressed by it.  David Schwantner's
other posts make me think he doesn't really mean this the way it
sounds to me: like a vindictive parent punishing a child by causing
discomfort--at least I hope he doesn't mean it that way.

Why would "the discomfort of a spanking" do a better (or even as good
of a) job of teaching a child that a given action is undesirable?

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ginger@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ginger Ogle)
Subject: Re: You know you're a parent when ...
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:22:22 GMT

you know the names of heavy equipment (and you don't work in that field):
	gooseneck lowboy
	skip loader
	backhoe
	gravel loader
	etc....
-- 
/*   Ginger Ogle	       ginger@cory.berkeley.edu	
 *   EECS
 *   University of California at Berkeley, California
 */
From: lynne@pacersoft.com (Lynne Chantler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Diapers and the Environment
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:10 GMT
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXDate: Tue, 10 Nov 92 15:12:37 GMT

In article <10NOV199201023881@trentu.ca> BEN WOLFE, bwolfe@trentu.ca
writes:
>I firmly believe that every parent has the right and the obligation to
>make his or her own responsible choices. But as misc.kidders are fond
>of reminding each other, choice depends on accurate information. There
>are some very large corporate interests out there that are in the
>business of using misinformation to shore up billions of dollars worth
>of sales of damaging products.

What you have said here is absolutely correct.  The information you have
left out here is the amount of water used to launder diapers, correctly. 
Water is also a precious and limited resource.  The amount of pollution
caused by detergents used in laundering the diapers.  The health risks
associated with the use of cloth diapers when not laundered correctly or
a dirty diaper pail.

If you use a diaper service, what about the pollution released into the
environment from the delivery trucks?

The cost for infants is usually more expensive with a diaper service in
the first few months, but then levels out.  If you use a diaper service
for the entire time the child is in diapers, then the price averages out
to be slightly cheaper than disposables.

As you can see there is pollution, and waste of natural resources on both
sides of the coin.  Neither cloth or disposable is a perfect solution.  

When all the factors are weighed, it will still boil down to convenience.

Being a single mom with a 10 month old, and a full time job the last
thing I need is 5 more loads of laundry or tracking down a delivery truck
that failed to show up.  Besides most daycare facilities will only allow
disposables for health and sanitation factors.

No flames please I just wanted to point out the facts of the other side.

Lynne
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: janines@novell.com (Janine Schenone)
Subject: Re: Car seat battles (13 mos)
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, California
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:23:46 GMT

In article <92314.100920CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Over the last month Doug (13.5 mos) has developed a fierce determination not
>to get into his carseat. . .  Any hints in the meantime to make things easier? 

Welcome, fellow wrestler. I have dubbed myself the carseat wrestling champion
of Northern California. Georgia (21 mos.) has been fighting getting into
her carseat since she was about 16 months old, and since then, we have
had quite a few wrestling bouts. My hints aren't the greatest, but
they have helped some. At first, I would let her toddle around the car
a bit and express her independence. But she kept extending the toddling time,
and she would still fight me when I tried to put her in the car, so
I stopped that. Now, I always make sure she has some comfort object 
(baba, blankie, "Baby"--her doll) in her arms when I put her in the
car seat. 

Just two weeks ago, she came up with her own coping mechanism:
she wants to climb in the driver's seat and push all the buttons. Sigh.
At first I was not happy with this development. But it turns out that
if I let her do it for a little while (about 15 seconds), she feels,
that she is being accorded the respect that she deserves, and she'll
usually get back into the carseat without a struggle. Doug's too
young for this option right now, but if you can think of some way
to empower him, it will help. It beats shoving your kid into the
seat while she arches her back and kicks.

Janine, Mom of Gorgeous Georgia
From: obrien@hri.com (Jim Obrien)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: WHERE IS DADDY???
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:00:53 GMT
Reply-To: obrien@bigbird.hri.com
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

A good friend of mine is having a problem with her
2 year old daughter. She is a single mother, and her
x-husband only see his daughter for 2 hours a week, and
only shows up 50% of the time. He is not a very stable
person, and can not be trusted alone with his daughter.

After every visit, the daughter is in a state where she
hates everyone. She also crys alot, and is definitly
affected by the visit.

My question is, would it be better if he just stays away
completely? Seems like he doesn't care one way or the
other, because they hardly know each other. Or should
the mother assume that the daughter will grow out of this
phase, and accept thing as they are..

Please give me your opinions.      Thankx Jimm..
From: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: After The Stork sizes
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:27:14 GMT
Reply-To: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CDNSWC

I remember a discussion here recently about how "After the Stork" clothes
fit.  In particular, I am considering getting some of the long underwear
for use as pajamas, but I seem to remember someone (Tigger?) saying
they were tall and thin fitting, which definitely DOESN'T describe my
son.  Any comments, anyone?  Thanks.

Diane Segelhorst
dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: leeba@mot.com (Leeba Salzman)
Subject: Re: Spanking
Reply-To: leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Communications Israel Ltd., Tel Aviv
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:05:51 GMT

Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Spanking
Reply-To: leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com
Followup-To: 
Organization: Motorola Communications Israel Ltd., Tel Aviv
Keywords: 

Just a few thoughts relating to points brought up in the Spanking thread:
-
1) It is often easier to deal with other people's kids, because there isn't the 
cumulative anger/frustration from years of being tested by the child.  Then again,
there isn't the same degree of love which permits you to forgive.  And if a 
child consistently disrupts/misbehaves in school, they can sometime be moved to 
another setting/teacher/class/school.  In a home situation, your options are
much more limited.  Also teachers are supposedly trained to handle these
situations.  Until training for parents becomes required (including a sabbatical
off for enrichment every 7 years), I think the educators on the Net should give
parents a little more space.  

2) Kids who behave in school but misbehave at home may be following the lead
of schoolmates with different home environments.  While at home, siblings often
share the same experiences and behavior patterns.  It isn't necessarily because
the teacher is "Mary Poppins, Practically Perfect in Every Way," and the
parent is a lazy, self-engrossed pig.

3) Before ripping apart parents who spank, remember that there are different 
personalities.  Some people have strong tempers which come out when stressed
or fatigued.  Instead of controlling the spanking, they should be encouraged/
taught to control the anger (and other negative emotions).  Then they can handle 
the misconduct.  Otherwise, spanking can be replaced by nonphysical forms of 
abuse which can be just as damaging to childrens' self esteem and to the family.

4) Remember some of these adults grew up seeing their parents spank and scream
instead of controlling their anger.  It's a lot harder for them to learn new
techniques, EVEN when they try.

5) For those who depend on childproofing instead of discipline to protect their 
kids from knives, matches, etc.  Remember that doesn't protect them when they are 
out of the house/with someone else.  Children still need to know what their 
limits are and what the rules are.  (I suspect a person is more likely to end
up in jail because he/she ignored society's rules than because of being spanked
as a child.  And then there's the Attractive Nuisance thread :-))

6) As a (very conflicted) full-time working mother, I take off my hat to stay 
at home parents who deal with their kids and pressures all day long.  (No jokes, 
GB!) I sometimes wonder whether I sometimes don't deal as well with misconduct 
because I have to deal with it when rushed/stressed.  Perhaps if I were home all
day I would be forced to come up with better techniques, just to survive.


Disclaimer: No disrespect meant for teachers, spankers, nonspankers, or Mary 
Poppins).  

Happy parenting,
Leeba
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:29:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1d9s2fINNp09@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
 >I have a question for everyone here, having heard all of the arguments
 >going both directions.
 >
 >Did anyone whose parents didn't spank ever wish they did, rather than
 >the punishment they actually received?
 >
 >Many times, my father would scream and yell at me for a long time.
 >Gradually, I learned to tune him out.  He would have been much more
 >effective in disciplining me if he *had* spanked, instead .....
 >

Thanks for admitting this, it lends some credibility to my argument.
Would you say there was an incident you can remember that a spanking
probably would have kept you out of trouble later?

I've been trying to show that whether we like it or not, spanking is
sometimes necessary.  The basic argument I make is:

    There exists a child and a situation for which spanking is the
best solution.  Therefore, "never spank" is invalid advice.

Dave
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: role reversed households
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:20:07 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

Yesterday I saw a post requesting information about homes where Mom works
and Dad stays home.  I marked it to respond today, but alas our news purger
killed the article and I don't know who asked.

I am the working Mom in such a relationship (we have two kids) and will be
happy to talk to you about it via e-mail.  My internet address is:
		
		judy@locus.com





-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Century Recall
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 13:44:29 GMT

In article <gey1b0200iV243INYD@andrew.cmu.edu> "Paula K. Davis" <pd1i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Century has publicized that there is a problem with the release latches
>on their 4000 and 5000 series car seats.  The problem exists with 4300
>and 4400 models.  If your car seat is a 4300 or 4400 model, and the last
>4 digits of the serial number begin with 8 or 9, you'll be sent a kit to
>retrofit the latch.  You'll find the serial number stamped on the side
>of the seat.  
>

  What about their 2000 car seats?  Do you think they'll eventually
  come out with  a problem on those latches also?  I find them hard
  to disengage sometimes...

  The reason I'm wondering is that we have an old 1985 Fisher Price
  that a coworker lent to us in my in-law's car and a new Century
  2000 in our car.  I'm going to go and buy another carseat for
  my in-law's car since the F.P. is no good and too old for the
  recall.  I was going to go buy another Century 2000 until I heard
  of the Century recalls.  I figured my son was used to the Century
  2000 design.  Now I'm wondering if I should buy another brand,
  and if so, what brand???  There's a Gerry Snaplock one that looks
  interesting and a few others.  My husband believes in "going with
  what works" (or so he thinks), but since I'm into stocks and
  mutual funds, I believe in diversification or "not putting eggs
  in one basket".  So my problem is whether to buy another Century
  and risk them recalling the 2000 also (in which case we'd lose
  both carseats), or buying another brand and having my son not
  like the little bar that goes around the front.

  Any recommendations on good carseats and/or information on recall
  history would be helpful.  Thanks!

  Clare
  clare@nynexst.com

  p.s.  BTW, thanks to everyone who supported me through my ordeal
  with Millie.  I'm resolved to talk to my midwife about it next time.
From: dank@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel G Knierim)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Examples for discussion (was Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long))
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:46:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.7524
Reply-To: dank@tekig6.pen.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Nov06.235228.2222640@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
Sure, I'll bite!

>"You tell your 6 YO that you need to vacuum the floor and he needs to pick
>up his toys.  An hour later and the toys are not picked up."

Pick up the toys, and put them where the child cannot, or is not allowed to,
get them until after the *next* time you need to vacuum.  Explain to the
child that if you have to pick up the toys, you want to make sure you won't
have to again the next time as well.

>And here's one from one of the class members himself:
>"Your 4 year old forgets to flush the toilet.  This is one of your pet
>peeves and you really cannot allow it to continue."

This seems like a stretch on the capabilities of a 4 YO, so I'd go easy on
the consequences, and work on methods to help him/her remember.  For the
consequence, I'd probably just call the child to come flush the toilet
whenever I found it not flushed.  I'd try to remember to remind the child
after s/he left the bathroom (which is a stretch on the capabilities of
*this* 34 YO).  If the child can read, or at least recognize, a simple word,
I might put a poster saying "FLUSH" on the back of the bathroom door, or by
the towel rack, or behind the sink, or whereever it would be most likely to
be seen.

>"Your 15 year old is supposed to be home at 8 PM.  It is now 10 PM and 
>and your child comes sauntering into the house."

I'd ask why first, and *listen* to the answer.  If the reason is sound (in
my/my wife's opinion), no problem.  If not, I would explain why not, and try
to be specific as to what I/we found unacceptable.  (E.g. is it the time
the child came home, or the discrepancy with the expected time, or the lack
of a warning phone call, etc.)  Then I'd ask the child for ideas on how we
could allow him/her to go out again, without the problem repeating.  The
child could not go out in the evening until we all have agreed on some
plan of action that would serve to prevent a similar occurance.  (This is
very similar to the "choose your own punishment" technique, but I'd be
willing to entertain techniques not necessarily involving any punishment if
the child could make a convincing argument of said technique's effectiveness.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, if this were real life, instead of an exercise, I'd be in a bad
mood at the time, the other kids would be acting up too, the child wouldn't
respond to the text-book example the way the text-book said s/he would, etc.,
etc., etc.  Sigh.  But the above is what I hope I would do, and what I hope
would work, in those situations.

- Dan Knierim
These opinions aren't worth the standard disclaimer form they're printed on!
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gbk@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (g.b.karlovsky)
Subject: Re: Brio Compatible Thomas trains
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:12:52 GMT

In article <1689D9E5E.LISAS@pucc.Princeton.EDU> LISAS@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Lisa S Lewis) writes:
>A while back people were looking for Brio compatible Thomas trains.  I
>noticed that these are available through one of the catalogues I receive.
>It's called Troll Learn and Play, and their number is 1-800-247-6106.
>>
>I have ordered from them in the past, and they seem to be a pretty good
>company.
>Lisa

Boy did I have to comment on this...  I had a terrible experience with this
mail-order company.

Two years ago, I called them to order Chanukah gifts for my two nieces and
nephew.  I ordered one larger gift for each of my nieces and two small
puzzles for my nephew.  They wanted to charge me FedEx charges for each
gift... twice for my nephews gift.  I explained they were all going to the
same address, couldn't they put them in one box and ship them together?

The instructions were to wrap each piece and some how label them with the
appropriate name (I told them what was for who), and that they could wrap
the two puzzles together or separately, as long as they had the right name
on them.  They were also to have one message for all three, saying Happy
Chanukah and who it was from.

What my nieces and nephew received:

	1.  Three separately wrapped packages, all in the same paper,
	    none labelled.  One unwrapped puzzle.

	2.  One message to my oldest niece.

	3.  Two of the three gifts required instructions on assembly.
	    Neither gift had the instructions.

	4.  The invoice, sent separately, to them, with prices and all.


I have never been so embarrased.  My husband and I had a busy season.  It was
our first season with a child, in a new house, near relatives and responsible 
for alot more since we now didn't have to TRAVEL, a full-time job, etc.
Needless to say, I was grateful for the idea that I could call someone up and
tell them what I wanted.  They removed the time I had to spend shopping,
wrapping, and going to the post office.  I also spent MUCH more money than I
would have normally, and my brother and sister-in-law are very careful about
money.  In addition, my sister-in-law had to unwrap and rewrap everything to
figure out what was for who, and label them, and save my butt.

I DID get all shipping/handling/wrapping and FedEx charges reimbursed, but I
will never order from them again.  There are many places out there that sell
the same stuff.

Be careful...

		Gail Karlovsky





	***********************************************************
	*							  *
	*   Gail Karlovsky	(gail.karlovsky@att.com)	  *
	*        		(mom to Adrienne - born 4/30/90)  *
	*							  *
	*							  *
	*   The ideas expressed here are mine and do not 	  *
	*   reflect the opinions of my employer.		  *
	*							  *
	***********************************************************



Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: rzahavi@rod.mitre.org (Ron Zahavi)
Subject: Car Sear Recall Information
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:19:31 GMT


I recently heard that some Century car seats have been recalled but I
don't know which models.  I also cannot find an 800 number for Century.
If you have any information that would be helpful, please e-mail me.

Thanks,

 -- Ron --
==============================================================================
Ron Zahavi                              Tel:            (703)883-5407
MITRE Corporation                       Internet:       rzahavi@mitre.org
Mail Stop Z267
7525 Colshire Drive
McLean, Virginia 22102
==============================================================================
From: lm3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Laura McGinnis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Kids names for food (wqas Cute things they say)
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:06:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Iezbu3e00WBKM1o=ZZ
	<GeraldR.155.0@sunfish.ratsys.com>
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

On 09-Nov-92 in Kids names for food (wqas C..
user Gerald Ruderman@sunfish. writes:
>In article <Nov07.000231.64436@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
ian@candela.ATMOS.ColoS
>tate.Edu (Ian Wittmeyer) writes:
>>Sean *used" to like broccoli (when he was 2). he called them 
>>"trees" before we told him the real word. sound familiar to 
>>anyone???
> 
>My daughter liked cooked onions since we called them "noodles." When she was 

I was making my practice turkey (the one you do before the holidays so
you know you remember how when the time comes :-) and Mickey was
watching me baste it.  When I asked him if he knew what it was, he told
me it was a chicken.  When I said "sort of, it's like a big chicken", he
said "Oh, elephant chicken" and merrily went on his way.

L.
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: 2 year old traumatizes front teeth
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:13:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

When my daughter fell and injured her mouth, at about the same age,
the dentist prescribed some antibiotics in an effort to ward off
infection.  We thought it had worked, but a year later, at her
first routine dental checkup, the dentist noticed an abscess.  She
recommended that the teeth be pulled.  Other dentists we consulted
agreed.  They all felt that root canal wasn't worth it; it doesn't
have that high a success rate in young children, and it is, of course,
a difficult and painful experience.  The extraction went remarkably
well.  And an examination of the roots of the extracted teeth showed
that they had indeed been damaged by the infection.

So -- it's 3 years later, and Rebecca is getting very impatient for
her new teeth to come in.  And she'd very much prefer that new top
teeth appear before her bottom teeth fall out, or she'll have trouble
eating apples....