From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Group Racism (Re: Others did it, why can't you?)
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:34:28 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <37877@cbmvax.commodore.com>, mitchell@cbmvax.commodore.com (Fred Mitchell - Product Assurance) writes:
>>
>>There is no credence to comparing the plight of North American blacks to
>>the discrimination faced by white ethnic immigrants. Even comparing the
>>situation to Non-white immigrants is faulty. No other U.S. ethnic group,
>>except for Native Americans, has suffered the wholesale cultural atrocities
>>that blacks have.
> 
> I beg to differ with you. The Jews have suffered such atrocities (and worse)
> for millinea. Remember, it was 6 million _Jews_ that were sent to their
> deaths, not 6 million blacks.

I think the poster was referring to the US not Germany.  However on the topic
of black deaths, we were suffocated and starved to death by the millions on the
middle passage, whipped to death on plantations, worked to death on plantations
from USA to Brazil to the West Indies to wherever slavery existed, and in the
process denied recognition of our humanity.  

I lived with two Jews,and  if they hadn't told me, I would never have known
this.  Their names sounded WASP-ish (Barnett was one), they behaved like your
typical college boy from the US, and they looked white.  They were integrated
in the sense that that even if you were a Jew-hater you would not know by
looking at them.

Contrast this with the store detective following my black ass around the store,
and the cashier telling me what's too expensive for me, the police stopping me
and accusing me of stealing my friends car;  people telling me I'm different
from the hordes of unwashed, worthless blacks (which the "oreos' among us buy
into, but that's another subject, another time) like every white man on the
road hives his ass off to Harvard, Yale, Oxford, etc.; and the numerous
injustices I and others have to face simply because of "blackness".

> 
>>Contrary to the excuseful thinking of those who like to
>>blame the victims, the condition of blacks and Native Americans in the U.S.
>>is directly a result of the racial genocide
>                                     ^^^^^^^^
> Where there was an attempt at genocide against the native americans, I am
> not aware of the same against the blacks. The blacks were very harsly
> treated, but I don't recall a systematic attempt to kill them all off.

Killing millions on the middle passage to enslave and kill millions more on the
plantations for profit qualifies for more than being "very harshly treated" in
my book.  Not genocide perhaps in the classic sense, but what would you
describe it as?

> 
>>committed by white Americans,
>>and to a lesser degree the continued societal racism that these groups still
>>endure.
> 
> Yes, and this group bashing can continue on and on ad neauseam to whose
> benefit? People must be looked upon and analyzed at the individual
> level. We do not choose to be white or black; therefore lumping everyone
> in blanket groups like this is grossly unfair to the individual.
> 
> And it is this that perpetuates the hatred between the groups.
> Sad.
> 

The sad fact is that by active enforcement of racism by the few, with the
continued apathy, silent support of the many who benefit, it still appears that
racism is very much supported by many of that group (this said not to demean
whites who are vocal against racism).  You should therefore not be surprised
after fire-bombings in Long Island, Howard Beach, LA, the numerous other
incidents that never make the headlines, the daily humiliations of black people
that the identify a group effect.

For e.g. many snakes are not poisonous, but what is your first reaction on
seeing a snake?  I agree with you that this is a sad state of affairs, and
before I came to live in a country with a white majority, I too had a certain
naivete about the relations with the individual.

I have made many white friends, but experience, and history, tells me to be
wary when dealing with your average white, and I have not had the gross
experiences suffered by many others.  I have spent the last year watching
convictions of black and Irish men in this country being quashed because of
trumped up police evidence.  This plus my own experience tells me that I am
more likely to meet a racist police than not.  I also have met non-racist
police.  I will describe the police in general as bigoted #$@!, which is true, 
but which in itself does not exclude the non-racist police officer.  The well
documented incidents of racism in even the most routine contact tells me that
the society in general is racist but does not exclude the non-racists.`
`
If you are not racist, then rather than attack the victims, your time would be
better spent trying to educate the ignorant.  Until the society in general lift
their voices and show by their actions that they do not support racism, then
blacks will have no other choice but to call a spade a spade.


>>__________________________________________________________________________
>>		Wayne Hines
>>		wayne@tse.uucp
> 
> === Fred Mitchell (mitchell@cbmvax.UUCP) ===================================
>  Lorinda, the    ..      ///     Heroic rescues are embarrassing          ..
>  9th wonder of   .. \\\ ///      if you're not really in trouble.         ..
>  the world! (44) ..  \\X//                          - Cally, Blake's 7    ..
> ============================================================================
> tlk[?t(ap',;].0R\/Mpy#J<_r$H%s_PVZ:Kg*8P(9pduOpgxN-a,DUbwQm=$Z+kds>l<WxF.K8G


McBean