HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: randy@cerl.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:05:42 GMT

I'm posting this as a courtesy to someone who was having trouble posting,
please respond directly to him.


From jmmatthe@cbda8.apgea.army.mil Fri Jan 22 20:10:26 1993

I'm going to post this to you since you're first in the string and for
some reason the system is rejecting my followups.  If you will, please
send it on to the net.

Back when I was taking lessons in a radioless ragbag, my instructor in-
troduced me to the "Aim to miss" method of navigation.  In its basic
form, it assumes dead reckoning navigation, though it can be used to
"shade" other methods when the circumstances warrant.

You're flying a longish leg, one which will stretch the fuel a bit, maybe.
Maybe your arrival will be close to sunset--possibly you didn't plan it
that way, but were delayed enroute.  There is a scarcity of good check-
points--lots of things on the chart, but less than totally informative.
The wind information you used to plan your flight is from a hundred miles
away and is now several hours old.  The visibility is good VFR, about 5
or 6 miles, but when you get high enough to see much, there's not much
to see.  Sort of like the southeast about half of the year.

When the middle checkpoint fails to show up, you don't want to wander
around trying to find it, for that path leads to fuel exhaustion.  If
you've been able to hold a steady course, you can continue that way.
But if the next checkpoint isn't there either, you're very nearly lost.
So, instead of holding that course until your ETA and not knowing which
side of you your destination is on, alter course 5 or so degrees downwind.
Sooner or later, you'll cross some identifiable feature--a highway, river,
or powerline.  When you do, you know which way to turn to follow it back
to your proper course, or at least terra cognita.

Like most things you learn about flying, this can't be used indiscriminate-
ly.  But there are times when it helps.

J. Matthews
Standard Disclaimers Apply
-- 
Randal  Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech
From: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Flying Movies (was Re: Book on Pancho Barnes)
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:13:56 GMT
Reply-To: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

>In article <1993Jan25.205200.20284@den.mmc.com>
>zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin) writes:
>
>> What are people's favorite flying movies, ones that really show piloting
>> and airplanes properly?  Has Hollywood ever gotten it right in your
>> humble opinions!?!

One movie which comes to mind is "Flight Of The Phoenix". It was produced
in the early 1960s, and has a dark side to it, in that stuntman and
test pilot Frank Tallman(?) died while flying a plane filmed in the
movie.

If the truth be known, I enjoyed the book much more than the movie.
But the plot tweaks the imagination just enough to be compelling. It
involves the crash of a twin-engined, twin-boom, cargo plane in a desert.
The survivors of the crash separate one engine, boom, and tail section
from the wreckage, attach the wings, and fly away from the crash site.
Pretty good stuff for not having machine shop facilities available.

Bill Palmer
-- 
----------------------------------------------
I'm the victim of EJ's signature virus! Oh No!
From: alans@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Alan Sanderson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:16:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Book on Florence "Pancho" Barnes?????
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting

I'm not able to give any references to books about Pancho Barnes,
but there was a film made about her a while ago.  She was played
by Valerie Bertinelli.  It may have been either a Disney or a
made for TV movie.


 *******************************************************************
 Alan Sanderson      Hewlett-Packard  ISD       alans@hp-ptp.HP.COM
 US Snail:           1266 Kifer Rd. MS101S      MaBell: 408-746-5714
                     Sunnyvale, CA 94086        FAX:    408-746-5890
 Disclaimer:  <Standard Disclaimer Applies> 
 ********************************************************************
From: stephens@access.digex.com (John Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:38:07 GMT
Organization: Severn Companies, Inc., Lanham, MD 20706
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1993Jan18.195355.19928@nntpserver.chevron.com> hdnea@usho88.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal) writes:
...I can never seem to match local landmarks with
...features on the map. If I insist on finding myself via 
...visual references, I can usually do it in 5-10 minutes. 
...ADF and VOR navigation work ok, but thats not good enough, 
...or even safe (IMHO). 
...
...I'm going to switch from a Grumman Cheetah to a Cessna 150 for
...a while because of the lower speeds. 
...
...Any suggestions for helping me to develop pilotage skills
...would be highly appreciated.

Flying at higher altitudes will help a lot.  One of the hardest
things to visualize at first is what something looks like when
viewed from an oblique angle.  Don't forget, the map "viewpoint"
is straight down.  It is even harder to recognize coastlines from
a boat, based on marine charts, so don't think you are alone in
this.

With practice, you will find it much easier, and even second
nature, to correlate what you see from the air with what you see
on the chart.  The higher altitude helps by making the angle less
oblique.

...P.S. My instructor is _not_ the type to really help
...me with this; he's more of the high-pressure 'Well? Well? WELL?!?!'
...type. Not so good when you are lost.

You need to let your instructor know how you feel, and what things
you are having more difficulty with.  Talk it over, and if the two
of you don't see eye to eye on your concerns, either reach a
workable compromise or find another instructor.  Remember he/she
works for you, not the other way around.  But, like any good
teacher, the instructor should "push" his/her students to some
extent, or they won't realize their potential. No pressure at all
is worse than an appropriately challenging environment.

Keep with the "ground feature visualization", it will come, and
then you will wnder why you ever thought you had any trouble with
it.  I promise!

   ********************************************************************
  *                             .                                      *
  *   John Stephens     ._______|_______.   Montgomery County Airpark  *
  *    PP-ASEL/IA             \(*)/                  ( GAI )           *
  *   C-172P N51078           o/ \o          Gaithersburg, Maryland    *
  *                                                                    *
   ********************************************************************
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Book on Pancho Barne
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:47:51 GMT
 <1993Jan21.211355.8928@den.mmc.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1993Jan21.211355.8928@den.mmc.com>
zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin) writes:

> I suspect that the movie took vast 'artistic' license with the details
> of her life and character

Suspect?  Suspect you say?  I had a lot of problems with the technical
honesty of that movie.  Sure the aircraft were great, but what was that
deal with a stunt man falling to his death because the winds aloft were
higher than normal.  The guy was simply hanging on to the strut, the
movie showed him falling off and then not opening his chute because of
the winds, as if having slightly higher winds would pluck him off the
strut like that and then make him not reach for the rip cord.  Then how
about the guy giving her her first plane ride.  He puts it into a spin
and then moves the stick about with a worried look on his face as if
something is wrong with the airplane.  Great, that's teaching movie
goers alot about aircraft.  Then during a cross country race, one of
the female contestants has an engine problem and promptly spins in and
creates a roast on the meadow.  Another nice message to send to all the
innocent viewers; have a problem and in you go with a big fiery
Sitzplatz.  As usual, I came away disappointed.

Corky Scott
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Charts in-flight (was: pilotage: any tricks/tips?)
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:17:57 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

I stated a week or so ago:
>Several people mentioned in this thread about marking their charts.
>I also think this is a good practice.  However, it significantly reduces
>the life and readability.

Thanks for the feedback.  I do - I do mark my charts now - a good practice.
I mark routes, and extend VOR radial lines out into areas that I frequent.

I typically fold my chart before the flight and hold it in a glassine
plastic envelope.  I typically have 2 charts, one on each side, and carry
my plotter in the middle.

I have found that the refolding is harder on the charts than the markings,
and usually have some holes in the chart by the time it expires.

>I have alway thought that the concept of a plexiglass type chart holder
>with grease pen markings could be a good idea. However, I have yet to
>see anything that looks reasonable.  For example Sporty's has such a
>device in their catalog, and I've seen similar things in local stores,
>but they seem way overpriced and very awkward.  A pad with a two dimensional
>scroll capability would be ideal.
>Has anyone had good experiences with these types of chart holders?

I've gotton some mixed e-mail responses.  The negative side seems to
be awkwardness of refolding in-flight.



-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: mjb@keps.kodak.com (Mark Biamonte)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:43:14 GMT

In article <93020.35980.L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>Any other tips on radio procedure at small and large
>controlled airports appreciated.

One of the most helpful things I have found is to get a hold of a portable
radio which receives the comm frequencies and go out to a controlled airport
and just listen and watch.  Preferably at a fairly busy GA airport which has a
mix student activity and transients.  Even better if you get some jets mixed
in as well.  

If you do this for a while you will see and hear many different situations.
Eventually you will be able to anticipate what both the controller and pilot
are going to say.  For example the first time I heard the phrase "Cleared for
the Option" was while I was doing just this.  My next lesson I asked my
instructor what that phrase meant.

BTW, for people in the Boston Area Hanscom Field (BED) is a great place to do
this.  A couple of good viewing spots and a very good mix of traffic.

Mark Biamonte 
PP-ASEL



Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Organization: Jade and Jett Incorporated
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:29:41 GMT

In article <skip.232.727705775@mitre.org> skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild) writes:
>In article <C17tvs.I1H@mach1.wlu.ca> eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen) writes:
>>...
>>On another occasion, I was flying in a control zone, and I overheard an
>>exchange between the tower and a another pilot (no, not me!).  The pilot
>>reported that he was about two miles from the field, and the tower asked him
>>why he had not called for clearance to enter the zone...
>
>Unless there is a difference in terminology between Canada and the lower 48, 
>I think you meant Airport Traffic Area (ATA) rather than Control Zone 
>(CZ).   There aren't any communication requirements which are affected by 
>being inside vs. outside a CZ.  A CZ only affects minimum visibility 
>requirements and often exist at airports without a tower.
>
>An ATA exists at airports with an active tower (i.e., on the air).  The 
>existance of an active ATA includes the requirement to contact the Tower 
>before entering the ATA.

Well, you're going to be in for a shock on September 16 of this year!

On that date, the new airspace system goes into effect, and (among
many changes) ATAs cease to exist.  They are replaced by Type D
airspace, which corresponds to today's Control Zones.  The
communication requirement you cite for ATAs above changes to refer to
Type D airspace around an airport with an operating control tower.

Canada, not being quite so retro as the US, already uses this system, so
Niels posting and terminology was exactly correct for Canada.

pmf
pp-asmel-ia
mooney n5632j
From: facemire@Software.ORG (Jeffrey Facemire)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:40:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: software.1993Jan26.144018.7254
Reply-To: facemire@Software.ORG
Organization: Software Productivity Consortium, Herndon, Virginia

In article L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM, L697187@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM () writes:
> I learned to fly at an uncontrolled airport.  This is good because I
> learned to LOOK out the window for other aircraft that happened to be
> sharing the sky with me.  This is also bad because proper radio
> procedures at controlled airports are glossed over.  You land at a
> couple and that's it.  I don't have mic fright so please no lectures
> on that but what I do need is info on radio PROCEDURE.  At controlled
> airports with no clearance delivery, do you ask for your clearance
> from ground before you request to taxi or do you wait and request from
> the tower?  Any other tips on radio procedure at small and large
> controlled airports appreciated.
> 
> Scott (never afraid to ask for help) VanArtsdalen
> /* brand new */ PP-ASEL


Well, this reply is going to surely show that I haven't had the
book open for a while :-). BUT, I'm going to take my best
off-the-top-of-the-head stab at this...

There is a book published by TAB Books entitled the Radio 
Communications Handbook (or maybe the Pilot's Radio Communications
Handbook).  As I recall, it was written by Illman and Pulzar and it
is now in either it's second or third edition.  I used this book
during my primary training since I flew out of a controlled field which
was situated beneath the veil of an ARSA and we also had a TCA close by.
I figured it was best to become very proficient on radio procedures.
The book leads you through most of the scenarios that you'll encounter,
and I found it very useful.  I've probably read through it three times
now, and I usually brush up on it once a year since there are things
from the book that I don't get to practice all that often.

I think this book will help you.

Jeff Facemire
"I'd sure rather fly for a living!!!"
From: stephens@access.digex.com (John Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Book on Florence "Pancho" Barnes?????
Date: 24 Jan 1993 21:14:07 -0500
Organization: Severn Companies, Inc., Lanham, MD 20706
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <C14Do8.I57@hpchase.rose.hp.com> bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Bob Devereaux) writes:
...I've been reading two fine biographies of Amelia Earhardt, and in one of
...them is an intriguing reference to another woman pilot of the time, one
...Pancho Barnes.  Do any of you into aviation history have any books and/or
...articles about PB you can recommend?


I believe that this is the same woman who ran the local "watering
hole" frequented by the test pilots in the late 40's/early-50's at
Edwards.  Check out the references to her in "The Right Stuff".
From: barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Charts in-flight (was: pilotage: any tricks/tips?)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 12:14:58 -0800
Organization: USC University Computing Services, Los Angeles
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu
Summary: Wherever You Go, There You Are


>In article <1299@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com> rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill) writes:
>> [ ..marking charts is good, but significantly reduces its life and 
       readability ...]

In article <1993Jan22.161520.7178@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@pex.eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
> [...need to replace them every 6 mos anyway (we ARE all using
>current charts, aren't we?)  ...the $5.50 to get a replacement.  :-)
                                      
Hmmm.. Hey, Bill.. are *you* using current charts?  I've been dishing out
SIX BUCKS for my sectionals since Oct. (and $3.75 for TAC's)!  :}

As for marking my charts, I use a pink highligter to mark "enroute"
courses on a sectional.  I'll re-use a lot of those paths so the chart 
doesn't get *too* messy.   

Selecting checkpoints: I avoid using those directly on/under one's
path.  A low-winger (or even high-wingers) might have a hard time
spotting it... esp when one is *on-course*, which we ALWAYS are :).
Instead, select one that's large and at least a mile to either
side.  VOR cross-radials also work great when they're sufficiently
far (10 miles) and somewhat perpendicular.  I'll use another color
to mark checkpoints/radials along the pink line.

While in flight, if you're not ABSOLUTELY sure where you are, determine 
that NOW.  You can then either get back on course, or plot a new course
altogether to get to your next checkpoint.

Don't become complacent with only *thinking* you're at a point...
verify as often as you need to. (I have an interesting story for 
another posting... maybe some day :) ).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >|            
              >|      barney@usc.edu  Barney@USCVM
 -->  -->  --> |   =======    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   ---    ---  
              >|      Permanent Student Pilot, On the Numbers   
              >|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:25:35 GMT

In article <513.184.uupcb@ssr.com> dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin)  writes:

>DN> .P.S. My instructor is _not_ the type to really help
>  > .me with this; he's more of the high-pressure 'Well? Well? WELL?!?!'
>  > .type. Not so good when you are lost.
>
>Change instructors.  Or go up with someone else for a while that can
>better help you develop your pilotage skills.

I believe that Dick is recommending that you go up as a passenger, but
in case you interpret it differently -

If you elect to go up with someone else who's not a CFI, keep in mind
that *you* can't legally carry passengers. The other person must be a
rated pilot with a current medical, and technically is the pilot in
command (even if you do all the flying). I wouldn't even log the time.

If your FBO is like mine, there are probably several older pilots who
don't own aircraft and will be quite happy to ride along and point out
landmarks, especially if they can take the controls for a while.

Try to wangle a long ride as a passenger. Then prepare for the flight
as if *you* were going to be the pilot. This gives you nothing to do
except find landmarks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Try to live your life so that you wouldn't be
George Patterson -  | afraid to sell the family parrot to the town
                    | gossip.
                    |                            Will Rogers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild)
Subject: Re: IMC/IFR: exactly why so difficult?
Organization: The MITRE Corp
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:38:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.044915.21655@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>Why exactly are instrument conditions so dangerous? I can understand how they
>would require special training, but I've heard about how easily pilots can
>get out of control, crash, etc. Is it the loss of spatial awareness because
>there's nothing out there to see, or do clouds cause a plane to fly
>differently?

The plane could care less whether it is inside a cloud or not (except for 
increased chance of icing or engine problems with water ingestion).  The 
problem is lack of visual cues for the pilot for attitude control (up-down-
left-right).  These external cues must be replaced with a 
knowledgeable instrument scan of all six of the primary attitude instruments 
which simply takes proper training and practice to do well.
From: lee@deneb.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:33:32 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.sw.stratus.com

I learned something yesterday during an uneventful flight from Burlington VT
back home to Hanscom AFB in Bedford MA.  The weather was VFR, and I was flying
in the clear above a broken layer, pushed along by a 50 knot tailwind (! :-) ).

The broken layer was not present over Hanscom, but I had 5500 feet to lose so
I chose to circle down through a big hole.  I was descending under power to
avoid shock cooling, a few knots into the yellow arc (about 140 knots in my
Skylane).  As I descended below the level of the deck, my circle was going to
lead me under one of the clouds and, I figured, I'd be 500 feet below it when
I got there.

Wrong, of course.  Clouds often (almost always?) have rising air under them
and the air under that cloud was rising quite rapidly.  Even after I figured
out what was happening and banked more tightly, powered back and nosed down, I
still had trouble keeping a descent.  I kept below the cloud (didn't have my
tape measure out to see if it was 500 feet or not) but I explored the high end
of the yellow arc to do it; thank goodness the rising air was smooth.

So, my lesson for the day: when spiraling down through a hole in broken
clouds, try not to end up under any clounds until you have more than enough
cloud clearance and don't need to descend any further.
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel)
Subject: Re: Engine Failure Due to Cold Engine?
Reply-To: km11480@medtronic.COM
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:16:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.044113.6485@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
>The temperature this past sunny Minnesota weekend
>was a balmy 2 degrees and I chose to take up my
>club's C-152 for some touch and goes during one of
>the few VFR days we have had recently.  I warmed up
>the aircraft for ab.....

Is 2 degrees warm enough to be doing touch and go's?  I remember
during my primary training having to wait a couple weeks for the
temperature to get above 10 so we could practice landings in 
preparation for solo.  We contented ourselves with hood work, but
it did delay soloing by a few hours.

As a fellow Minnesotan, I'd be interested in the net.wisdom's opinion 
on minimum temp's for this kind of activity.  As an aside, we lost several 
exhaust nuts during cold-weather touch-and-go's, perhaps due to the
temperature cycling loosening them.