From: ted@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.autos.rod-n-custom
Subject: Re: '87 Trans Am Modifications
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:49:15 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <BxFoHD.KID@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar) writes:
> In article <1992Nov7.031544.6822@ra.oc.com> rodder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jon D. Rodder) writes:
>>In article <BxBG46.HEL@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar) writes:
>>>> Stephen James Kendrish <sk4k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>>In need of advice.
>>>>
>>>>     I'm telling myself that I'm investing money into my '87 Trans Am to
>>>>get more money out of it than I'll put into it by reselling (a lot of
>>>>people probably say this).  I probably will not sell it, however, when
>>>>I'm finished with it.  I bought the car for $3000 R-Titled.  The body
>>>>work is still excellent and the 305cid non-TPI motor runs great for
>>>>116,000 miles.  I feel like I got a pretty good deal.  
>>>>     
>>>>     Anyway, at this moment I'm having a 400SB Chevy being built for it.
>>>> I got it for $200 out of a 1970 station wagon (70,000 mi.).  First of
>>>>all, I'm wondering if the transmission and rear end can handle this
>>>>power?  It has the TH700R4 Automatic OD transmission and stock rear end.

Any chance of picking up the transmission out of the station wagon also?

>>>
>>>Will the body be able to handle it?? I have seen and heard way too many
>>>bent up TA stories to ever consider putting a quality engine into one of
>>>these cars. Did you ever notice that you never see 5.7 TPI IROCS with
>>>t-tops (with the exception of one year, 1987 I believe)? Know why? The body
>>>could not handle the torque. Plus, a 1970 400 engine is going to be a lot
>>>heavier than a 1987 305. The newer engine has aluminum brackets, intake
>>>manifold, etc. while everything on the 400 will be cast iron. So, the front
>>>suspension will definitely need to be beefed up.
If it's like the ta's and cameros I'm familiar with the frame from the front
does not connect to the rear...they make a kit to connect them and thereby
strengthen the car.

>>
>>The 87 engine also had a LOT more smog equipment, etc.  I doubt that the
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>400 will weigh significantly more than the 305.  The 400 accessory brackets
>>most likely weigh less than the beffy 305 aluminum brackets, btw.  And
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>if he's going to all the trouble of doing this swap, why not spend
>>an extra $100 on a new aluminum edelbrock manifold? 
> 
> No, not really. The only piece of smog equipment with any appreciable
> weight to it is the AIR injection pump. The EGR valve doesn`t weigh but a
> pound, the computer weighs little more than that, and I assume that the
> converter will either be left on the car or replaced by a heavier dual
> exhaust setup. Sure, it looks like spaghetti in there, but really most of
> it is just vacuum hoses and electrical lines. Oh, there is also the vapor
> canister (another pound), and if you count the stock air cleaner, maybe
> another. But that is all there really is. So emmsisions control devices
> really do not put that much weight onto a car. As for the weight factor, my
> brother put an early model Olds 350 into his Cutlass (iron intake and all),
> and it simply weighed more than the 305 it replaced. In fact, the springs
> eventually had to be replaced. Maybe the Chevy 400 is different?

I should hope it will have dual exhaust!  Why build up an engine if you're
not going to have dual pipes?  

> 
> BTW why would a car company use aluminum brackets if they weighed more than
> the cheaper steel ones they replaced??
> 
> 
>>>A 700R4 will not last behind a 400. Period. The only way it will is if it
>>>is ripped open and modified by a good tranny guy. As for the rearend, if it
>>>is a 10 bolt posi, it will probably be OK. 
>>
>>I disagree...  I have a friend running an 87 700R4 behind a 90 HO350
>>with no problems in 30,000 miles.  I'm running a 91 4L60 (the new designation
>>for the 700R4) behind a 450hp blown 350.  SO far, no tranny problems,
>>but I don't have many miles on it.

I would think that a 70 400 would have a lot more hp than a 90 350 HO or not.

> 
> I am truly surprised. The reason for this is probably because the 700R4 was
> modified a bit by GM in 1987 (Hot Rod Magazine), and could handle more
> torque. Time will tell, I guess. All I can say is that I love my TH350.
> Has your tranny been modified at all??
> 
>>As far as the rear end goes, the stock 87 rearend will NOT take a moderately
>>built 400.  My friend with the HO350 went thru two of them in the first year
>>he had the 350, and finally went to 12 bolt.
> 
> Again, a surprise by me. My Nova had a 10-bolt behind a BUILT 350, and it
> held up pretty good. Maybe they were weaker in later years?

Hmm...maybe check and see what rear end was in the old station wagon?  
Maybe buying the whole car would/could be a good investment?  Station wagons
usually have heavier duty suspension, etc. especially back in the 70's...

> 
> 
> Again, I think that the most important question is whether or not the body
> could handle the torque of a built 400. I had an `82 TA, my friend has an
> `84, and still another friend has an `86?, and none of these cars had the
> body strength to handle a real engine. People I know tried it and regretted
> it, so that`s my testimonial. 

Did any of them try the frame kit I mentioned above?  I wonder how much it 
might help...
          TED

> -- 
> |       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
> |   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
> |  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
> |____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
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