HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seltzer@ics.enet.dec.com (Richard Seltzer)
Subject: Letter to Bush
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:22:59 GMT




I'm puzzled by the response of this newsgroup to Fischer's
indictment.  Yes, he makes outrageous statements.  Yes, his
opinions are obnoxious and even morally repugnant.  But what
kind of precedent is it to do nothing, to not even raise
a voice of protest while a public figure is persecuted and 
effectively exiled for his opinions?

Even though I'm not a political animal, and even though I 
realize it's probably futile, I would feel guilty if I didn't 
at least write a letter to the President.

Attached is a copy of the letter I sent today.  If enough others
do likewise, the volume of correspondence might catch someone's
attention.

******************************************************************


                                  December 22, 1992

Dear President Bush,

I am writing in hopes that you will reverse your decision to 
indict Bobby Fischer.

The greatest chess player in history, who for years was the 
Cold-War symbol of American brain power and feisty independence, 
is now a political exile.  His crime:  playing chess and 
expressing his opinions.

To reach the heights in the art of chess requires single-minded 
determination and concentration.  If Fischer were to return to 
the U.S. to face charges, 1) his earnings would immediately be 
impounded and 2) he would be involved in exhausting and 
entangling court wranglings for months, if not years.  Even if he 
were to win and be vindicated, his chess career -- his incredible 
come-back -- would be over.

Regardless of the technicalities of the law, this indictment 
effectively exiles Fischer.

And regardless of the technicalities, did Fischer's action in any 
way violate the intent of your executive order?  Did he provide 
any material support to Serbia?  Or did he, rather, remove from 
that country millions of dollars in hard currency?  

Would he have been singled out for indictment if he had not made 
a point of expressing his opinions and publicly ridiculing the 
order?  And is it a crime to freely express your opinions?

The record of your term in office is a brilliant one.  The visual 
image most associated with your name would probably be the 
collapse of the Berlin Wall.  With the indictment of Fischer that 
image has changed.  Now I see a bureaucrat persecuting a great 
and troubled artist, who is a symbol of American independence.

Surely, that isn't your intent.  Surely, this decision should be 
reviewed and revised in the spirit, and not just the letter, of 
American democracy.

Respectfully yours,

Richard Seltzer  seltzer@ics.dec.com
-- or --      ...!decwrl!ics.dec.com!seltzer
-- or --      seltzer%ics.enet.dec.com
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Chess problem of causing probelms.
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:08:24 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec27.141405.11723@schaefer.math.wisc.edu>, duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge) writes:
> In article <1992Dec26.183055.644@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <haha.725395615@vipunen.hut.fi>, haha@vipunen.hut.fi (Harri Haanp{{) writes:
>>> K . k r b . . .   Now certainly KRBP should be enough material to mate
>>> P . . p . . . .   against KPPP. In this particular position, however..
>>> . . . P . . . .
>>> . P . . . . . .   White (caps) to move.
>>> . . . . . . . .
>>> . . . . . . . .   C. S. Kipping (Chess 1936)
>>> . . . . . . . .
>>> . . . . . . . .   2X
>>> 
>>> Harri H.
>>
>>Not quite. Move the bishop, the rook goes free, and the board changes.
>>
> White moves the pawn
> Black moves the bishop, white moves the pawn, checkmate
> 
> Are you sure you are on the right group, Don?

I don't know about Don, but I am in the right group. Mr. Wedding can speak for
himself, and the least you could do is read the relevant posts before
commenting.


> 
> Jason
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Jason Duelge                                                              |
> | 141 Lakewood                                                              |
> |  Gardens ln                                                               | 
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: wchen@beirut.berkeley.edu (William Chen)
Subject: Pardon DMC and Sven?
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 02:10:55 GMT

The last 50 posts seem to have very little to do with chess.  The original 
debate was about the quality of games in the F-S II match but this debate 
about a pardon for Fischer has almost no chess content.  I really don't 
think Noriega, Constitutional powers, and admiralty laws have anyhting to 
do with chess.  I read enough of this stuff on other newsgroups like 
alt.politics.libertarian.  

Ok, now for the bit of chess in this post:  I've been looking into 
basic chess endings recently and was wondering about the technique to 
checkmate with 2N vs P when the pawn is blockaded.  I'm also 
interested as to the exact conditions when theis is a win, but I'm
much more interested in the technique (Like, how do you force the king into
the corner while keeping the pawn blockaded?

William
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:51:59 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec31.062052.17651@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
> In article <1992Dec29.100929.710@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>
>>Right. But, and make an honest effort to understand this, the states can only
>>give up the powers they have. See, just because they get together they do not
>>get new powers ou of the coalition. If Georgia lacked the power to convict you
>>for playing chess in Yugoland, it couldn't give the federal government the
>>ability to do so. (If I lack the power to fly, and I give you all my ability to
>>fly, you STILL can't fly. Or, if I lack the ability attach your assets, I can't
>>give someone else the ability to attach your assets.)
> 
> By this argument, no institution of the society could ever exist because it
> couldn't have any abilities beyond the abilities of individuals. Police, army,
> courts,... couldn't exist at any level.

You left you reasoning power at home today Sven.

The people give up their some of their rights of self-protection by forming a
police department.

They gave up their right to revenge when the gave up trial-by-combat in favor
of courts. (Well, OK, Henry II forced it upon them, but you get the point.)

And, the army is the masses of people banding together for mutual self-defense.

If you think about this, the light just might come on...

> 
>>
>>Rights can only be transfered and limited, not created. 
>>
> So how did we get any rights in the first place? (BTW, I won't buy any 
> arguments using `God'.)

A right is a legal fiction which is considered to be valid for the purpose of
helping create duties and obligations which promote a society which better
serves the needs of its individuals.

If you don't like that definition, you are stuck with 'from on high'. Sorry,
that is just the way it is.


> 
> 	Sven
>
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:20:24 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec21.050129.5523@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.164138.568@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec18.210943.10605@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld) writes:
>>> In article <1gpafnINN8bb@tamsun.tamu.edu> sharring@cs.tamu.edu (Steven L Harrington) writes:
>>>>
>>>>                   Couldn't we better use that "slot" in prison for housing
>>>>someone that is an actual threat to society?
>>> 
>>> By your logic, we should pardon WWII war criminals who are now 80+ years old
>>> and definitely do not pose any actual threat to society.
>>> 
>>> 	Sven
>>> 
>>
>>By your logic Bobby Fischer has done the equivelent evil as Megela.
>>
>>DMC
>>
> I guess you should work on your logic as well as on your spelling.
> 
> 	Sven
> 

Well, if your reading comprehension is so poor that you do not have the ability
to understand text with a few typos, then perhaps I should.

As for the 'logic' of comparing Fischer to Mengela, YOU were the first to
equate Fischer with WWII war criminals. If you can see how innane that is now,
pehpaps you whould not have used it in the first place.
From: csabatier@nola.win.net (Conrad J. Sabatier)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: New name for this group?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 17:44:17 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: csabatier@nola.win.net (Conrad J. Sabatier)
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
X-Unparseable-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 9:24.34.74

I recently subscribed to this group, and have been quietly
observing from the sidelines.  In the light of what I have seen so
far, I would like to suggest that a much more appropriate name for
this group may be the following:

rec.flames.chess

Come on, folks!  Can we get off this thread and get back to some
sane, sensible discussion of CHESS?

Conrad
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Conrad J. Sabatier      Internet:csabatier@nola.win.net
P.O. Box 641303               
Kenner, LA  70064-1303  Windows is to DOS as Color is to B&W, as
(504) 568-9202          Automatic is to Standard, as CD is to vinyl,
                        as ... (your analogy here)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: corleyj@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley )
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Harper vs. DMC
Date: 1 Jan 93 02:59:07 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <1hv0g3INNhds@life.ai.mit.edu> joltman@cookie-crisp.ai.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.210659.744@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec30.224451.2878@progress.com>, disabito@progress.COM (Paul Disabito) writes:
>|> "...to see if DMC accepts this offer....?
>|> 
>Paul was obviously referring to the match on ICS which was NOT made by you.
>It would be quite difficult for the rgc readers to see the match if it were
>not on ICS.
Hey! Which of them will be nude?
Hee hee hee.
      Jason
     Worst Chessplayer in Arizona
PS Happy New Year, guys n' gals.
From: jeff@emily10.Berkeley.EDU (Jeffrey C. Ely)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: DMC vs. Harper
Date: 31 Dec 1992 21:58:36 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: emily10.berkeley.edu

I want to see this match.  We will all see that DMC is not a chess player
and he'll have to go find some other group to annoy.

Now both of you are dismayed at the other declining the match which means
that each of you are willing to play.  Why doesn't one of you name a specific
day and time to play a game on ICS.  If the other fails to show up, then the 
argument can be considered settled.  So.. How about it!?  

By the way, anyone got a good library of rating supplements?  What's DMC's 
rating?  Elliot?

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: 2267 Performance Rating for 10-year old in Montreal
From: pmbarlow@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Pete Barlow... 'The Candy Guru')
Date: 2 Jan 93 13:03:52 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <31DEC92.15661460.0064@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CCHB@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCHB) writes:
> Here is a CHESS-related item:
> 
> Ten-year old Lefong Hua scored an impressive 3.5 out of 5 in the
> Open section of a tournament in Montreal (Canada) which ended
> yesterday. His results were as follows (he was ranked 45th out
> of 49 players at the start):
[results deleted]
> His performance rating was 2278, raising his rating to 1947.
> After adjusting for the "deflated ratings" of Canadian players, his
> USCF rating would be somewhere around 2100 (published USCF rating is
> in the 1600's, based on 6 games).
> His photo was on the front cover of the February 1992 issue of CHESS
> LIFE (upper right, holding trophy), after winning the Grade 4 section
> of the National Elementary School Championships (Nov. 1991).

Wow.

> His brother, age 6, wants to play in tournaments too, but is just
> learning to write, and cannot record his moves!

Easy enough.  If the kids parents are coming along to the tournaments, just
have THEM record the moves until the kid is old enough to write for himself. 
That'd come under the "appointing a deputy" clause, in the rules for
handicapped players section of the ORC, and not knowing how to write would
certainly be a valid reason to have someone else record the moves.

> Does anyone know if a ten-year old has ever had an expert (or a master)
> rating before? (Fischer became a master at 13).

Uh... I don't know if Jorge Zamora made expert before his tenth birthday or
not... or if he's even gotten there yet.  But aside from him, no one comes to
mind.

TCG, pb.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: vanweer@ecf.toronto.edu (VANWEERDENBURG NICHOLAS JOHN)
Subject: Re: DMC & this has gotta stop: ENOUGH ALREADY!
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:54:57 GMT

In article <Daniel_Marsalone.1beq@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Daniel_Marsalone@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Daniel Marsalone) writes:
> 
>    I think that if I see one more message about Sven, DMC, or entitled
>"this has got to stop", I am going to start killing those who post this
>nonsense.
> 
>    I am very displeased with what I see taking place here. Some messages
>are alright (like the one about dumbing down CM3000). However, the majority
>are just cal. 
>
>    And if I see another post with the title of "re: Pardon Fischer", Bobby
>gets a bullet through his head.
>
>
>-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
>
>Daniel Marsalone             Daniel Marsalone            Daniel Marsalone
>Internet: daniel_marsalone@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US
>    UUCP: rex!agwbbs!daniel_marsalone
>

Please don't encourage people to change their subject headings- my KILL
file won't work then and I'll have to suffer even more!  And who says
chessplayers are anti-social dweebs?  Can't think of why anyone would say
that.  Not with the quality of this newsgroup.
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:13:42 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1h7it0INN4na@parsifal.umkc.edu>, chris@kasey.umkc.edu (Christopher Mitchell) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec18.132520.549@uoft02.utoledo.edu>,
> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>
>>How is the US claim, that it can enact laws which attempt to exercise
>>control
>>over people outside of its territories, any different than the Iranian
>>claim
>>that it can pass judgment on Salman Rushdie for writing a book while he
>>was in
>>Great Britain?
>>
>>I eagerly await a mature response which addresses these questions...
>>
>>DMC
>> 
> 
> I think you're missing a point here...Bobby Fischer isn't just a person
> "outside" of our "territories."  Bobby Fischer is a United States
> citizen, thus subject to our laws (as particular Muslims were subject to
> Khomeni's proclamation).  Since Fischer chooses for the time being to maintain
> his U. S. citizenship, then he also chooses to be a part of our political
> process, i.e., the right to vote, petitioning congress, etc. as well as being
> subject to any and all of our laws.

Nice theory--but what factual/legal basis do you use to back it up?

Make no mistake, it LOOKS nice. However, you are rationalizing, and not pulling
anything from legal precedent.

> 
> A proclamation by Khomeni is similar in that a particular Muslim sect
> (forgive me for not knowing details) has members who have chosen to be
> members and have chosen to be subject to the sect's laws.  They had their
> own leader (Khomeni) whom had certain powers (as granted by their God). 
> Since they believe *all* Muslims are subject to these laws and powers,
> then Salman Rushdie was as well, and thus his particular blaspheme was
> to be condemned.

Right. I suppose if the US is correct in exercising their power over Fischer's
match then Khomeni was also justified in issuing his death sentence.

I mean, if you believe that way, fine. No reason to argue. Everyone is
permitted their own beliefs.

> 
> Bobby Fischer too is subject to our laws.  He either comes home and lives up
> to his commitment to our country, or I'm sure he's welcome to stay right where
> he is.

Ah.... America, love it or leave it.

Haven't we grown beyond that?

> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> --
> |                      |
> | Chris Mitchell       | Academic Computing Services
> | chris@kasey.umkc.edu | University of Missouri - Kansas City
> |                      |
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan)
Subject: Re: 2267 Performance Rating for 10-year old in Montreal
Organization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:31:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.150252.22412@athena.mit.edu> jmh@athena.mit.edu (J Michael Hammond) writes:
>...
>If you do break out the database, Elliott, could you look up two kids
>from Minneapolis: Jamie Wheat and his younger sister Erin?  

From the December 1992 Annual Rating List:

James Franklin Wheat (14) is currently listed as 2063*x2, number 11 on the
Top Age 13-14 list.

Erin E Wheat (12) is currently listed as 1510*C9, number 45 on the Top
Age 11-12 list.


>...Back in
>1990 they both played regularly at the chess club in Minneapolis, I
>think Jamie was nine and Erin seven.  Jamie was already an A player at
>that time and Erin either had broken or was bearing down on 1400.  I
>moved out of the area in early 1991 and haven't seen or heard much of
>the Minneapolis chess scene since.
>
>Unlike other notable examples, their parents seem to be quite
>reasonable.  Mr. Wheat took up tournament chess about the same time as
>the kids and seemed quite happy to learn from both of them.

Mr. Wheat seems to have dropped out - he's not listed, so was not active
in 1992.


-- 
Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station 
(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
From: arimakel@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Ari Kalevi Makela)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Petrosian-Bronstein, Amsterdam 1956
Date: 1 Jan 93 16:24:13 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In Amsterdam Candidates' Tournament 1956 Petrosian played a famous game
against Bronstein. Petrosian completely outplayed Bronstein. At the end
Bronstein could move only his knight forwards and backwards. But then
Petrosian blundered his queen and lost.

The game should be a strategical masterpiece and Petrosian once said
that it was his most beautiful game. Many books mention that game but I
have never seen the game. If someone could mail or post it I would be
very pleased.
-- 
Ari K. M{kel{		    Department of Radiochemistry
ari.makela@helsinki.fi      University of Helsinki

"Night must fall now - darker, darker"
From: haha@vipunen.hut.fi (Harri Haanp{{)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: It is legal to play chess in Yugoslavia
Date: 26 Dec 92 18:46:55 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

> Obligatory chess question:  Does there exist a chess position in
> which Black has enough material to mate White in theory, but Black
> cannot mate White even with White's cooperation, while on the other
> hand White can mate Black without Black's cooperation?

K . k r b . . .   Now certainly KRBP should be enough material to mate
P . . p . . . .   against KPPP. In this particular position, however..
. . . P . . . .
. P . . . . . .   White (caps) to move.
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .   C. S. Kipping (Chess 1936)
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .   2X

Harri H.
From: uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: MChess Pro vs. ChessMachine
Date: 28 Dec 92 07:12:17 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <2b3e4cfawnr070@ark.abg.sub.org> ralf@ark.abg.sub.org (R.Stephan) writes:
>> >
>> But in Madrid, Chessmachine Schroeder defeated MChess Pro on a 486/66,
>
>
>   NOT!!!!  Please check your facts.
You are wrong, my FACTS are correct, Chessmachine and MChess Pro met
head to head only once, and MChess Pro LOST.  Please check the facts,
I can send you a game listing if you like.

>   One CM win in one game is by no means a "defeat".  Here you see 30 games.
>   And more coming...

OK, perhaps the tourney can be declared invalid, but in fact MChess Pro
and the chessmachine only met in 1 game, and in that game the result
was decisive, The Chessmachine won the game outright.  The fact
is, if they had met 30 times, perhaps MChess pro would have won,
but IN MADRID THEY ONLY MET ONCE, and MChess Pro LOST THE GAME.
This may be inconclusive, I grant you, but....just declare the
whole Madrid Chess tourney invalid and we will proceed from there.
If you cannot declare the Madrid Chess tournament invalid, then
you must accept the fact that The ChessMachine won the computer
chess championship.  I hear another tournament (for computers)
is scheduled soon,perhaps that will allow MChess Pro a chance
to redeem itself.

-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------
bix: ruzun
NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hcb@netcom.com (H. C. Bowman)
Subject: New player and reader seeks FAQ
Keywords: FAQ, PBM
Organization: Box of Rain Productions
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:44:45 GMT


Hullo--

Is there an FAQ for this group?  Could someone mail me a copy? (I've just
scanned 400+ articles with no luck...)  And, finally, what is the 
"correct" way of soliciting e-mail games via the net?  Many thanks to
one-and-all!

--Cliff


-- 
| Cliff Bowman     |(501) 968-2232 Voice | As of 1 December, 1992, I was |
| Electronics Wonk |(501) 964-6118 Pager | approximately $1,017,077 shy  |
| Innovation Ind.  |(501) 968-7986 Fax   | of being a millionare.        |
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Harper Challenged!
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:41:50 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec31.053746.14255@Princeton.EDU>, carabalo@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David G. Caraballo) writes:
> In article <1992Dec30.224631.20511@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mzabel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Zabel) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec30.125320.739@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
>>writes (to Bruce Harper):
>>
>>>But, since you are SOOOO certain, I'll make you a wager. I fly out to where
>>>you are, and play YOU in a game of chess.
>>>
>>>Loser pays for the roundtrip tickets.
> 
> Is this guy serious about anything?

Very serious.

> 
>>Actually, it would be much easier to do it on ICS!!
>>You could post the time that the two of you would play,
>>and everybody here could watch.  Money could still be
>>involved (maybe...possibly...perhaps).
> 
> If I had it, I'd put $10,000,000 on Bruce...
> 
> David Caraballo

Then perhaps you would front Bruce the price of the tickets???

Or are YOU also all talk?



Newsgroups: rec.games.chess