HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Reply-To: gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman)
Organization: Washington State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.183304.10537@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu  
(Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> In article <1gjia1INN4a4@mizar.usc.edu>
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Dec15.012442.27914@macc.wisc.edu> 
> >anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> >>[ ... ]  I propose a four-group division:
> 
> >>soc.motss.coping
> 
> >>The coming-out stories, dealing with parents, dealing
> >>with other individuals who have important roles in our
> >>lives, including us ourselves.
> 
> >I'm not crazy about the word "coping", but that's really a
> >minor issue.  A venue where such stories are not swamped by
> >all sorts of other things, where people can express
> >themselves clumsily without unwittingly setting off a
> >flamewar, is needed.  By all means.
> 
> I'm not irrevocably wedded to the word "coping." But I
> thinking "comingout" has defects of its own and isn't
> inclusive enough for the fare I was thinking of.  "Stories"
> would suggest fiction, which wasn't the point either.
> 
Just to throw in my 2 cents...I'm not to fond of the word 'coping'  
either...how about soc.motss.outing? or soc.motss.demuff? (last one thrown  
in for dramatic effect, as I'm recently demuffined) ;-) 
> 
> >>soc.motss.politics
> >>soc.motss.politics.documents
> 
> [...comments deleted...]
> 
> >> soc.motss.misc
> 
> >No problem with this.

no problem by me either
> 
> >>By myself, I could do
> >>nothing to change that, but if enough people were to make an
> >>effort, it could be better for all or nearly all.
> 
> >I'm certainly willing to make that effort.
> 
> Thank you.  May many others join us in this.
> 
How can I help?

> [...sig deleted...]

Joe Gerkman
gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (NeXTmail ok)
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil Metals's
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 22:34:00 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Ken Dykes writes:
>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>I am *NOT* into Megadeth. While heavy metal may sound all alike to
>
>well i'm pretty sure steve wouldnt realize his interesting choice 
>of "incorrect" metal band for you george...

I'm sure you're right.

>megadeth is fronted by dave mustaine, one of metallica's original
members and lyracists... 
>
I know this.

>you dont know it yet, but you are a megadeth fan ! Moooo hahahahahahahaha!

Only by Mustaine's fingernails, Ken. The only two songs on
_RTL_ that credit him are "Ride The Lightning" and "The Call of
Ktulu", and as you know, he's not credited for performing on
that album at all....  Since I've never gotten around to picking
up a copy of _Kill 'Em All_, that's the extent of the Mustaine
Influenced Metallica I've heard.

>the lyrics of metallica material may not be those of james.
>lars, kirk and cliff have also contributed a lot of lyrical work.

OK, but all the interviews &c. I've seen tend to credit him with
being the band's main lyricist. Forgive me for overgeneralizing.
;-)

>weeeeeeeeeeee, now this is a motss conversation i could have fun with :-)

I can think of something that would be even more "fun" and
wouldn't require much conversation, but it would entail 
air travel on the part of one or both of us.  ;-{)##]

 
() Before you judge me take a look at you  |
() Can't you find something better to do   | -- _Holier Than Thou_
() Point the finger, slow to understand    |    by Metallica
() Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand |
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: An Apology
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:20:41 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>If you're incapable of expressing anger without employing the word
>"bitch," I could probably recommend some courses in remedial reading
>for you.  It sounds like you're in dire need of them.

	I tried really...!

	I readm the man page for curses (1) but it didn't seem to help
at all!

BBC
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction
Date: 19 Dec 92 03:00:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec19.030002.18018
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1gtulvINNpm@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.233347.27802@klaava.Helsinki.FI> 
>hipoyhon@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Harri I Poyhonen) writes:
>> In article <1gt9erINNm57@mizar.usc.edu> 
>> hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu (Harry Baldwin) writes:
>> >Jean Cocteau: any of his films. Although not overt, they are 
>> >saturated with his own gay sensibility
>>
>> Also his White Book. And Jean Genet's Querelle, Roland Barthes's
>> Soirees de Paris.
>
>I *vastly* prefer Genet's _Our Lady of the Flowers_ and 
>_Thief's Journal_ to _Querelle_, on both gay-sensibility 
>and purely literary grounds.

I don't know. Genet had always seemed to me to be straining at
avoiding something in his writing, as fecund as it was, or that it was
overly cinematic; I agree on your placement of relative merits. There
are the French oddities, unmentioned, like "Papillion". I missed
mentioning Paul Bowles, and Proust. (not that Bowles is French, mind
you). What about Loti? Veeeery curious writing; strangely beautiful.

>> Alan Hollinghurst's The Swimming Pool Library is also well worth
>> reading -- and a bit more modern than most of the aforementioned.
>
>I'm convinced that I'm the only person in the world who 
>wasn't bowled over by _The Swimming Pool Library_.  I did 
>like it, but from the way *everyone* seems to go on about
>it you'd think Hollinghurst was, I don't know, Edith Wharton
>reborn.

It is because most people have such short attention spans that they
can't tell the novel was simply an ineptly edited short story
collection. I had to keep looking at the cover to remind myself it
wasn't written by Edmund "States of Desire" White. It was a good read.

>When I was but an itty-bitty faggot, I adored the novels
>of Patrick Dennis.  _Auntie Mame_, to be sure, but also
>_Little Me_ (I confess that at the age of 13 I found the
>model who portrays Letch Feeley *most* attractive), and
>_First Lady_, _Tony_, and all the rest.


Oh, "Little Me"! Yum.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:38:29 GMT

In article <1got3bINNo9j@alice.cs.purdue.edu> berninge@cs.purdue.edu (James Berninger) writes:

>Some of us don't know
>who this "Rob Bernardo" person was, and, no offense, don't care.  I
>nearly doubled the size of my KILL file within two days after he
>died because of various people posting the "news" (all under
>different subject lines), or giving their own testimonials.

Poor buby.  Your disk quota must be creaking.

>Personally, I'd like to see a group like talk.aids.support for this,
>since I'd really rather not see HIV or AIDS associated with the gay
>community any more than absolutely necessary

Even had talk.aids.support existed at the time of Rob's death, this
material would not have gone to that group.  Rob was so intimately
tied to the soc.motss community, your own ignorance notwithstanding,
that it would have been ludicrous and, I think, disrespectful to try
to move that discussion out of this group.  Your KILL file will live.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Followup-To: soc.motss,soc.bi
Organization: Nowhere
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:00:22 GMT

James J. Yorton (yorton@turtle11.rtsg.mot.com) wrote:
> I just finished reading the editorial for this issue (Dec 10)
> of Chicago's Windy City Times, entitled "A Disaster in the
> Making", and I'm rather distraught over it.  It's on page 13.
> For the most part, I agree with WCT's editorial.

> It details the demands of the March on Washington 1993,
> and discusses the ramifications.  It takes issue with the
> "transgender" clause of the march.  WCT reports that according
> to MOW officials, transgender is defined to refer to
> "transvestites" and "transsexuals".


> --------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
> Jim Yorton                            | 
> Motorola Inc., General Systems Sector |
> Cellular Infrastructure Group         | Internet:  yorton@rtsg.mot.com
> Arlington Heights, IL                 |

Jim,

Thanks for the support. <sarcasm>

Wendy (One of those yucky transexuals.....)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:22:46 GMT

In article <rizzoe.587.724635796@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.210854.18532@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
>
>
>>Salmon Dip Breasts (with cherry tomatoes for nipples)
>
>This reminds me of an Italian dish I had in a very expensive restaurant in 
>Little Italy (that's in New York).  It was called "Mounds of Venus" and 
>started with two slices of veal covered with fresh mozarella mounds 
>appropriately cone shaped and topped with an olive slice.  It was 
>absolutely delicious but it was a strange sensation cutting into it.
>There's also an Italian pastry (I don't know the official name) which 
>looks exactly like a breast and its done with white and pink icing.  

At a local Bistro, there is an extravagently tasteless dessert called
"Reve de la jeune fille" (Young girl's dream) which is essentially an
anatomically-proportioned banana split. We always order it as 'reve du
viex pede' (dream of the old faggot). It confused the staff briefly,
until we explained that it was the same as the reve de la jeune fille,
except that it was, well, larger.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Why don't more women post? (was Re: An "enlightening" experience)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:47:06 GMT


In article <168B9123F6.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu>, TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu writes:
|> In article <BywEt3.4uE@fig.citib.com>
|> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

|> >So - I have a question.  I live in NYC and hear about lesbian
|> >sex clubs and backrooms - what are these like?  Male backrooms
|> >usually involve masturbation, cocksucking, and (more rarely)
|> >fucking-with-rubbers - what varieties do these places support?
|> >
|> Well, Greg, the problem is that your question is not necessarily
|> *clueless*, it's just very narrow in scope. As much as we gayfolk
|> like to proclaim that we're not just about novel and resourceful
|> sexual practices, it seems odd that your first question about lesbians
|> would be similar to the ones we get from straight men -- "So what
|> *do* you do in bed?" (The president of the GLBA here always responds,
|> "We read, eat cookies, stuff like that...")

I didn't say anything akin to "what do two girls
do when there are no dicks present".  I didn't say
"who straps on the dildo".  I asked about lesbian
backrooms.  Sex in gay male backrooms is different
than gay male sex in general, and I was curious to
know what form it took for women.  I may be wrong,
but isn't this a fairly new thing?  Is it wrong for
me to be curious about how it's evolved? 

I don't get the "narrow in scope" criticism.  Perhaps
I should have first asked for the "lesbian overview"
to get the proper background before asking specific
questions?  I live in NYC, in the Village.  I know what 
lesbians do with each other.  I've even seen them do
it.  Walking to work, I see posters for lesbian sex 
clubs.  Instead of guessing, I decided to ask.  Had I 
had the overview, I could have asked a question *you* 
were interested in.  Perhaps you could post a list.

|> But so as not to discourage *genuine interest* in lesbian lifestyles,
|> I will say that I have never been to a lesbian sex club, but Donna
|> Minkowitz says they're way cool. And if she says it, I tend to believe
|> it. From what she wrote, it seems to be pretty much the dyke counter-
|> part to the male clubs. Yep, that's right, the women retire to a back
|> room, don Birkenstocks and whine about the patriarchy... : )

So even *you* make jokes about it, but I'm sounding
like a straight man when I ask about it.  I guess
I can use your stategy and tell you not to be so
over-sensitive.

And thanks for letting me know that my curiosity is
not "genuine interest".  Maybe when you post the list
of acceptable questions you can provide interest ratings,
so I can skip to the real important things.


-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:36:32 GMT

> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>                                          .. If homosexuality can't be
>shown to be morally reprehensible, then it can't be taught to be so
>from a moral, ethical, or more importantly, logical viewpoint,
>regardless of what a parent's sensibility is.

Shouldn't this be chiseled in granite somewhere?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: When Lesbians Kiss
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:38:48 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1gmm2cINNfar@roche.csl.sri.com> kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae) writes:
	
> "Whenever lesbians kiss, another angel gets it's wings..."

I thought this was a cool thing, too... Roseanne and Tom like to 
play with the bigots.  It's soooooo great!

Tom
-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is Yes, and We are All FREE!"  | CO made a #2 no-no... PU!
| My views may not be shared by the organization of origin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Hair and other private matters (was: [various other stuff])
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:31:04 GMT

In article <15DEC92.18493744@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> In a previous article, coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) wrote:
> >Poor baby. You want some snow? I'll send you a package.
> 
> That dreadful weather you had.  I hope everyone up there affected
> is now on the road to recovery.

Well, the *roads* are, anyway. Actually, where I am got about half
rain and half snow, leaving us with 4 or 5 inches of extraordinarily
heavy snow. Further inland (I drove to Worcester and back last night)
it was all snow, and looks lovely (from a distance, anyway). There are
some places on the coast that used to be houses that are unlikely to
recover.

> >> I also did the perm thing.
> > 
> >My mind simply *will not* grasp this image. Are there photographs?
> >(I'm inclined to hope not, actually.)
> 
> Yes, there are, unfortunately, but none for release.  It was truly
> awful.  There are pictures hanging in the bedroom, though, at Daivd's
> insistence, so, if you visit, I'm sure we could arrange a private
> showing.

A private showing! Now, this idea apeals to me. Never mind the
photographs.

(Hmm... didn't we have a private showing, quite a few of them
actually, more or less in public, somewhere along the Columbia River?)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53108 soc.bi:16880
From: tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Date: 19 Dec 92 18:03:08 GMT
Organization: Tachyon Labs
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Dec11.153134.11417@rtsg.mot.com> yorton@rtsg.mot.com writes:

>If a transgender clause (transvestites & transsexuals) is
>included in [the Federal Gay and Lesbian Civil Rights] Bill, it will
>*never* pass.  You can kiss it good-bye.

As far as I know, the Santa Cruz anti-discrimination ordinance (passed
earlier this year) is the only such law in the country which
specifically protects transgendered people.  During the four heated
debates (two in a packed civic center) held while the city council was
preparing to vote on the ordinance, the transgendered part was the
*only* part of the ordinance that neither the "my preacher says the
Bible says we need less anal sex and more Jesus in elementary school
bathrooms" fundies nor the "in this recession we cannot possibly pass
any laws that restrict the rights of business owners to do whatever
the hell they want to their employees" suit-and-ties had anything to
say about.
 
Personally, I would guess that either they didn't understand what the
word meant and/or most of them had never read the ordinance in the
first place and just were there because of their preachers' anti-gay
ravings.  (There really were a few severely-phobic churches trying to
get as many of their members there as possible -- the kind that walked
around with flyers about Dannemyer being the cure for the Republican
party's "turn to the left.")
 
Anyway, I'm saying that there may *not* be any difference in public
response if transgendered people are included in the bill.  The
fundies will probably keep the focus on "gays gays gays" because
if they start ranting about transgendered people too it will make it
seem like they no longer think LGB people are so evil as to be the
one main focus of their rantings.  Not to mention confusing their
followers by trying to make them think of more than one thing at a
time.
 
Wishful thinking at least ...

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|  tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu  \        /__    Big glitter-slob weirdo bisexual   |
|   tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu  \    /   /  feminist vegan homeschooling parent  |
| tachyon@deeptht.armory.com  \/   /  science fiction computer bum i.n.p.o.  |
 -------------------------------\/-------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:49:57 GMT

In article <1h02v1INNe43@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:
>
>> Sorry.....as I've said before I believe it is *your* kind of Christian
>> who is just as much of a problem as the fanatical fundies.
>> ... With vigorous and 
>> vehement opposition from the mainstream christians, I believe the 
>> fundies would be hard-pressed to continue their venomous tactics.  
>
>What you need to understand about that is, most 'mainstream' Christians 
>are not into "vigorous and vehement opposition", in either direction.

That's why they're part of the problem, rather than part of the
solution.

>Also, most 'mainstream' Christians that I know hold the view that 
>homosexuality is disapproved of in the scriptures.  And no matter how 
>much these  'mainstream' Christians say they think people should be 
>free to do what people want to, and that they have no desire to 
>'convert' homosexuals into hetrosexuals, they are still likely to 
>get bashed in this forum for not coming out as 'approving' of 
>homosexuality.

Of course they do.  They remain silent while their faith is wielded as
a weapon by a group of anti-gay zealots.  If they really felt that it
was wrong to persecute people on the basis of their sexual
orientation, they would do something about the people who were
maligning their good name.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: ebrown@corpurch.Corp.Sun.COM (Eric Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: NYC Information Request
Date: 15 Dec 1992 02:39:43 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ebrown@corpurch.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: corpurch.corp.sun.com

I will be travelling to New York this month and
would like to know of some good gay dance clubs.

My preferences--NO leather, 20s-30s crowd, great
dance music, reasonably safe neighborhood.

Please respond directly to me.  If anyone else is
interested, I will compile all the information and
repost to the group.

Thank you very much.

Eric Brown

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:57:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.192722.24591@psych.toronto.edu> paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:

>While we're on the topic of offensensitivity (to steal from B. Breathed), I
>would like to know how the women (and the men too, but primarily the women)
>feel about the drag-queen subculture of the gay male scene.  I recently 
>asked three (female) friends of mine if they found drag queens to be 
>offensive to women, especially as they often attempt to epitomize the 
>bitchy-catty stereotype of 'hard' women.  One (straight) woman said she
>had no problem with it; another (straight) said she did not know enough
>about it to say, but would love to attend a drag show with me; the third
>(gay) woman said she did not find impersonators of specific famous women
>to be offensive, but was offended by men who 'simply' dressed as women
>and defined their own personalities within those roles.
>Makes me think that the reactions to drag queens are as diverse as the
>reactions to anything else that may be considered offensive, but I'd
>still like to know what the motss-gang thinks of this.

I'm going to answer this  two ways, first speaking for myself and then 
for a group of much older women in my support group, since the subject
recently arose.

As for myself, my main emotion on seeing a really good drag queen is envy,
as in "I wish I could look that good" but that may be because I never 
learned to put on make-up, walk in high heels or keep my hems straight.
Seriously, I have never found drag queens as offensive as the heterosexual 
"bimbo" types.  

And now for the nice blue-haired polyster-clad ladies in my group.  They 
think that drag queens are a hoot!  They represent the "creativity" of gay 
men (I didn't say this folks, some one else did and everybody said "oh 
yes, of course") BUT they will also tell you that drag queens don't belong 
in the Gay Pride parades because they attract the wrong kind of media 
coverage.  Again, I am reporting only...I do not agree with them on this 
issue and I hesitate to mention it because I know this is a perennial 
open sore on soc.motss.  

So there's the report from Breederville, USA (a.k.a. Brooklyn).

Emily