From: s7663277@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Dread)
Subject: Re: On the alleged cheating in the UB game....
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 01:00:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.220612.6797@acsu.buffalo.edu> keith@acsu.buffalo.edu (Hawk) writes:

Ok, now I have to reply. First off, let me say that 


*******
Elf and Dread are not the same person. n't attribute his comments to me
*******


>
>	Now, as far as Dreadlands and the Elf's accusations that *I* changed
>	the victory conditions, THAT IS A FLAT OUT LIE. *I* argued with
>	Larry (Rodina, if you don't know) to change the victory conditions
>	BACK TO WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY WERE! *I* DID *NOT* have ANYTHING to do
>	with him deciding to change them. 

Didn't say a word on this. However, this was the beginning. Land jumps into
first place, then Rodina says the first place person will be the only
winner and the game is gonna end in two weeks tops. By itself? Ok, no one
accused you of cheating at this point, though we did not like it.

>
>3) Dreadlands would have been done in the next few days anyway.
>	Yes,  sorry to say, Mr Dread, but there was a co-ordinated effort
>	to smoke you. Ask Mith, Cylamaron, Icehouse, or Commonwealth.
>	The attack was laid on for today at 6pm. The plan was, with the number
>	three country (and the ONLY COUNTRY OUTSIDE OF OUR ALLIANCE THAT COULD
>	HAVE AFFECTED THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME) removed, we could declare the
>	game over... Leaving, of course, anyone who wished to try and take us
>	out to do so. And I'm sure there would have been MANY takers to that
>	offer.

Perhaps. I knew I shouldn't have let Cylamaron live. However, even so, don't
count the Dreadlands as "surely gone." I have a way of finding allies when
I need them. Besides, a country as big as mine doesn't get smoked in a few
days. Maybe in a flatworld game, yeah, but not in this one. Boats are a non-
factor as I would have sunk them all instantly. Icehouse and Commonwealth
were not near me. Thus it would have been Cylamaron, Mith, and you against
me. Cylamaron's airforce was too small to be a big factor. Thus, it is you
and Mith against me. Yeah, perhaps I would lose, but I can think of some people
who might join me. It was not decided.

>
>	The fact that Dread and the Elf were bungling the management and the
>	running of their country to a point where they were out of contention
>	and THEN CHOSE TO BLAME THEIR LACK OF SUCCESS IN THIS GAME ON *ME*
>	I find HIGHLY offensive. In the context of the game, I *TOLD* dread 
>	that if he, or anyone else in the game, could prove that *I* had 
>	cheated,  then *I* would have removed LOF (me) or ANY OTHER COUNTRY 
>	THAT IT COULD BE PROVED CHEATED. Dread then told me "Well, I don't 
>	have any proof, how can you prove it." 

Bungling the country??? Hummm.... I don't think so. However, cheating was going
on, no question. And rumor had it you were cheating. And then I got a bulletin
which was supposed to be a message from Land_of_FaaKing... You figure it out.
The person who happens to be in the number one slot, happens to be rumored as
cheating sends me a message from the deity's account. What would you think?

>
>	Then he told me he was going to quit. So what am I supposed to do?
>	Sit and watch Mith demolish everyone else in the game?
>

Actually, you asked me if I was going to quit, and my response was, "I
haven't decided. I want to see what other people have to say." BANG, down
went the game.

>3)  The "proof" Dreadlands had for me "cheating" was this: ( I will rebut 
>	these in order after I list them)
>
>1. I had over 400 planes, but my money remained the same
>2. I was higher tech than he was
>3. I "thought that ships were the greatest thing since sliced bread".

As I said, there were also rumors, little things, etc. Then when I got the
message from the deity's account... we'll, I have no regrets for the
conclusions I reached.

>	WHAT is the POINT of cheating? Especially in Empire. Where's the thrill
>	of winning with a super country? Maybe I'm just being an idiot, but I
>	don't see the logic in it. I am HARDLY that hard up that I have to
>	assauge my ego by CHEATING in a  FODDER game! Face it, there were
> 	*MAYBE* five countries in the game that had a chance of winning them.

Not so. You fail to realize how quickly an alliance can take out a big country.
If what you said was true about those countries ganging up on me, I would
have fallen without aid. If 4 countries in the top 20 ganged up on even the
top country, knew what they were doing, and the top country was alone, that
country would fall. Some of the game's players are not fodder. This game was
in no way decided.

>
>	If the players in the game want me to remove LOF, and have the game
>	continue, then I will do so. It doesn't matter to me. After all, it
>	*IS* only a game.
>

We never had a chance to discuss it 'cause you shut the game down.

>	Yes, at certain points Rodina (larry, at the time) DID aid
>	newbie players that had done stupid things. Like the guy that
>	landed his planes in the water. There are other circumstances also,
>	NONE of which affected the outcome of the game.
>

Remember, none (well, me at least) of us knew anything other than Rodina
helps out someone. Try to look at this from our point of view. If the deity
helps people out, we begin to wonder. When the deity is a player, well...

>
>So, ANYWAY, all this is in the way of saying this:
>
>1) I did NOT do anything with Rodina that gave LOF an unfair advantage.
>   (And I really don't care if anyone believes that or not, it's the truth
>	and people that KNOW me, know I would NOT do that.
>2) The game is back up. I am still running it, but if enough people have 
>	a problem with me being a player/deity, I will remove LOF
>	AS I FUCKING TOLD DREADLANDS I WOULD IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!

Calm yourself. You said no such thing. I believe you shut the game down
before we could even discuss it.

>3) *I* took the game down, Larry killed the processes. Why did I take the game
>	down? Becuse with the number three (and Dread had a SOLID lock on
>	number three) nation gone, and most of the other countries in the
>	top 10 allied to Mith and LOF, there was no one that could affect
>	the outcome of the game. Mithrilien almost quit over the victory
>	conditions. I would have taken the game down then too...

Obviously I didn't have a solid lock on third place if I was to be attacked
by your huge coalition.

>
>Any of you have something to say, say it to ME.
>
>				C. Keith, LOF.

That wasn't possible until now, since you turned off the game and I didn't
know your mail address. We could only wait for a post to r.g.e.



I don't want to be blamed for what Elf said. You want to flame me? Fine, flame
what I said, not what he said him.

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Dread				      (Richard Robinson, Univ of Mass, Amherst)
s7663277@titan.ucc.umass.edu	      "There is no right, there is only power!"
robinson@elux3.cs.umass.edu		     "Kill them, kill them all!" 
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