From: bdbryan@eng.clemson.edu (Ben Bryant)
Subject: Re: Job hunting: Playing it smart
Reply-To: bdbryan@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:39:54 GMT

In article A1v@acsu.buffalo.edu, diachun@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Justin D Diachun) writes:
>I think we can start a thread here that should be able to get a
>bunch of recent grads into the job market.  I want to hear some
>feedback on how one should approach the job market if you want to
>get hired, as a new college graduate.  To start, let me explain
>how I got a job.
>
>My biggest asset was that I had a good forum to sell myself in.
>I completed a BSCS in February.  I was looking for a job as a
>"computational biologist", where I would use computers to solve
>biological problems.  This just happens to be one of the good
>areas these days, to my surprise and good fortune.  I spent a lot
>of time to make a nice, clear resume that said exactly what I
>wanted to do.  I posted the text version on bionet.jobs back in
>March.  For the most part, they contacted me.  Obviously the
>ideal situation, since I now knew they were interested.  For the
>curious, the responses I got took 2 days to 3 weeks to come in.
>
>Sure, I had solid grades and good experience.  But the problem as
>I view it is to have people read your resume who are really
>hiring right now!  My brother is in the same position, as a just
>graduated mechanical engineer.  In his field, he has similar
>credentials as I did, but he is having trouble--probably because
>of his field.  These days a recent BSME is just not getting hired
>very easily.  His main source of interviews is his Career
>Planning and Placement office at his school.  He has had a few
>interviews, but nothing clicked yet.  I posted his resume for him
>on misc.jobs.resumes but there was no email, phone, or US mail
>responses that came from it.  Lost in the massive volume of that
>newsgroup, I have to assume.  To be fair, he is not looking for
>anything directly computer related, so it is unlikely it would be
>spotted there.
>
>Now some statements on methods that have worked and not worked.
>The big loser for trying to get a job seems to be to pick some
>company that you really, really want, not checking if they are
>known to be hiring now, spending a lot of time writing a great
>cover letter to that company, sending it off with your resume to
>the Human Resources Director, and waiting for a response.  The
>overwhelming conclusion is that this is NOT NOT NOT playing it
>smart.  I have heard stories of people sending out literally
>hundreds of "personalized" letters to companies that they have
>approached this way.  I never got an interview; maybe my brother
>got one.  The normal result is to get to get no reply at all, or
>maybe a card saying "thank you, we will put you on file and let
>you know" meaning you are going to be ignored.  It is my feeling
>that there are probably dozens of people in that company that
>would be interested, if only the resumes got as far as them.  But
>they don't.
>
>So now I need to ask those out there who actually do the
>hiring--what would be the best way to contact YOU if YOUR group
>was going to have an opening?  What would you do?  The
>theoretical idea is that Jake at R&D needs a new grad, so he
>calls his friend Joe.  Joe doesn't know of any, so they think of
>a few good schools in the area and ask to have resumes from those
>schools sent down to them.  Still too many, they scrap any GPA
>under 3.0 or 3.5 until the group gets small, and give a few
>people a call.  Jake might also call up someone that Joe suggests
>since he trusts his judgement.  End result is that probably less
>than 1 in 10 or even 1 in 100 resumes that were sent in got
>looked at.  I hope someone can deny this and paint a clearer
>picture of how the process really works.
>
>Now some unconfirmed methods.  First, if you know someone that
>you worked with, that is a great source to try to find employment
>again.  Call up an old boss from a summer internship or even high
>school, and see if they will try to help you.  Try having your
>parents ask their friends, or a minister at church.  It may be
>surprising how far this can go.  This did not work out for my
>brother or I--bad luck or a normal fate to this route?
>
>How about scouting the local city area and stopping by in person
>to deliver a resume?  Would it help to call first?  Does showing
>up in person help for any reason?  How about talking to the
>secretaries while there, what could you learn?  Is there a reason
>to try this instead of mailing one in?
>
>Of course there are the want ads, but they are normally not a
>great quality place to look.  Is there a step up from the want
>ads of the newspaper in the city you are in?  Scientific
>journals?  How about searching out a remote city?  Sure, you can
>buy a paper from that city too, but is there a better or smarter
>way of looking?
>
>If you got a job as a recent college grad, what method did you
>use to get it, and what did not work?  Or, if you have an insight
>into how people actually hire recent grads, how is it done and
>how do you get through to them?  Don't tell me that all of it is
>though college recruiting programs; I got hired without even
>talking to one since I was seeking a specialized area.  So it
>might be true for large companies, but how about smaller ones, or
>brand new startup places?
>
>Let's hear it.  How do you play it smart?
>
>
>Justin
>-- 
>___   ____   ____   ____   ___________________   ____   ____   ____   _
>\  \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ /      Helix        \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ / 
>/\  \  /\  \  /\  \  /\      Justin Diachun    \  /\  \  /\  \  /\  \  
>  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/  \ diachun@cs.buffalo.edu \/  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/


Those are some very good questions, Justin. I am currently finishing up a
Master's in EE at Clemson U. in S.C., and am very interested in the
responses you will get to this one. I personally have seemed to have the
best luck by going "straight to the top" in companies. That is, calling
up the President/Vice President/Owner of a firm, and asking them what
the hiring prospects are for that firm. If anyone would know what the
current needs are (I say this referring to smaller companies), the CEO
should. Larger companies seem to be more a matter of "being in the right
place at the right time". For instance, I recently finished working for
NCR corporation in their Workstation products division. I found out about
the part-time postition through a friend who mentioned that NCR-Liberty
(the plant that I worked at), was currently gearing up for a MP-Unix port
to a new 4-processor machine they were working on. I asked my friend who
he thought I should contact concerning this, and by persistance in getting
through to that person, it payed off.

One other piece of advice for folks, besides persistence and "going to the
top", is to know before you enter the job market what your goals and
interests are. I see many people in all walks of life and learning who
really don't have a clue what they really want to do. -This applies
to engineers and computer scientists as well. -My advice is find out
what you really enjoy, and go after it 100%. If no opportunities immediately
present themselves upon completion of studies or while currently employed
in an area that you do not desire to be in, be patient and persistent with
the companies with which you would like to work. -I guess in some ways,
it's like falling in love. You pursue them a little, and perhaps they will
pursue you in return. -Perhaps it will take some time for them to recognize
your credentials, and "come around".

-Well, that's it. Hope it helps. Again, I will be very interested as well
to get other peoples thoughts on this.

Cheers,
-Ben B.
<bdbryan@eng.clemson.edu>