From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48
Subject: Re: Tricorder simulator
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:25:29
Organization: University of Oregon Chemistry Stores
	<STEVEV.93Jan4192708@miser.uoregon.edu> <1ibcmuINNr58@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: miser.uoregon.edu
In-reply-to: ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca's message of 5 Jan 1993 07:17:50 GMT

In article <1ibcmuINNr58@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> ochealth@unixg.ubc.ca
(ochealth) writes:

   Following your reasoning, we could say that Alonzo was wrong to
   have changed HP's mnemonics, after all, Alonzo's 'changed mnemonics
   are no better in terms of comprehensibility or notational
   convenience than the originals [HP's]', at least using any measurable,
   objective set of criteria.

Actually, Jan Brittenson recently mentioned one reasonably
objective criterion by which the Alonzo mnemonics are
significantly better than HP mnemonics: the HP mnemonic set is
highly context-dependent, in that the mnemonics must be
interpreted differently than symbolic expressions that often use
nearly identical syntax.  On the other hand, more conventional
assembly languages clearly differentiate opcodes from operands,
which makes them easier to read.  AG mnemonics are much more
conventional than HP's, and many people prefer using assemblers
with AG mnemonics because they consider them more notationally
convenient.

   You accuse Lutz of 'gratuitously changing a few of Alonzo's around'.
   For all we know, Lutz has been confined to the Fidonet wasteland
   with a 300 bps modem, living in a shack in the Black Forest 
   for the past 5 years, and has never seen Alonzo's. Just because
   they look similar, doesn't mean Alonzo is the one who invented
   that style, and Lutz is the one who 'gratuitously' changed Alonzo's.
   We all know Motorola, Rockwell had been using that style for years,
   with all kinds of CPUs, controllers etc. Sheesh! Give the guy a break.

This is a very interesting defense, although one that is probably
wrong.  I seriously doubt that Lutz can document that he came up
with this mnemonic all by himself without reference to the AG
mnemonics.  There are too many similarities between his mnemonic
set and Alonzo Gariepy's.

Here's a restatement of what I feel the problem is.  If you want
to share source code with others, you should be aware of what
languages are commonly available.  Right now, for the Saturn
processor, HP's SASM or Jan Brittenson's STAR are the most
widely-available assemblers for the Saturn.  It's bad enough
having two standards, although for me there is a clear choice
(obviously, I prefer STAR).  I do not want to have to also obtain
Lutz Vieweg's CLASS or convert code from CLASS to STAR,
particularly when so little code is available for it.  Especially
where programming tools are concerned, there is no benefit to
having a lot of different quirky variants, and programmers should
think about what standards they want to use and promote.  I
reluctantly begrudge the existence of SASM, since HP did all
their Saturn development with it and were kind enough to release
it to the public.  I feel that STAR is much better, both for
using the more sane AG mnemonic set and because it is available
in source code form and has been ported to a wide variety of
systems, unlike SASM which is currently only available for
MS-DOS.  But I find it very frustrating that someone would invent
yet another assembler with a mutated version of AG mnemonics and
syntax without any regard for the compatibility problems it could
cause.  Jan Brittenson was kind enough to poll people about
whether STAR and MLDL should use HP or AG mnemonics; that his
respondents recommended AG mnemonics indicates that the AG set is
not just some quirky individual format, but has a reasonable
level of support in the user community.
--
Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48