HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:37:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.170726.6907@nntp.uoregon.edu>, ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep12.4477.28381@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
|> >
|> >Has anyone who has been to the show
|> >asked about when AGA Chipset will be available for the Amiga 3000 and if
|> >it will work in on an Amiga 500/2000!
|> 
|>    The AGA chipset, while backwards compatable software-wise, is not a 
|> drop-in replacement for the old classic and/or ECS chipsets. The pinouts of
|> the Lisa are radically different, and all are full 32-bit. 
|>    In order to move forward, you often have to make a break with the past.

Too true... so, my question is, why DIDN'T they??? By the prominent position
given to compatibility in the press release, I'd say it was pretty high on C='s
list of priorities. If that's true, think of how much they must have SACRIFICED
to MAKE these machines compatible! It's depressing. As I said about a week ago
on this group, Commodore's press release should have been something like this:

"Here's the new Amiga 4000. It's better than any IBM or Apple system currently
available, and they probably won't be able to catch up for at least a couple of
years. It's not gonna run your old software, and the old Amigas aren't gonna 
run the new software, so you'd better get out there and buy a new computer.

Upgrade? Yes, you can UPGRADE to an A4000 by following these three simple steps:
	1> Get $4000  (not a high price for what it SHOULD have been...)
	2> Go to one of 250 authorized Commodore dealers
	3> Say "I want to buy an A4000"

Congratulations! You have now upgraded to the new Amiga 4000! And, best of all,
you still have your old Amiga to run the old software!

Thanks for dealing with Commodore Business Machines, leaders in the science of
multimedia computing."

Is this too much to ask? That's exactly how it went on the "upgrade" from the
C=64 to the A1000.

|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
|> All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:10:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.005152.10050@tronsbox.xei.com> bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:
>
>Well, the PC version of Lemmings looked just as good and was
>hard-drive installable.  The SuperNintendo version looked better.

I don't know about the SNES version, but the PC version lacked the little 
details, such as the flaming lava at the bottom of the screen and other 
pattern-animation effects.  It was okay on my friends 386/40dx, but he 
lacked a sound card, so we missed the little lemming noises.

 
> *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@tronsbox.xei.com          *
> *                                                              *

Jim


Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
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 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.
From: bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:42:32 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <1992Sep14.100016.1207@msus1.msus.edu> lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>
>The point here is that making comment on the machine is fine from a perspective
>of not having used it.  However, making judgemental conclusions is not.  Lets
>not add the 'trust' component here.  I highly doubt Marc even knew the poster
>of the original data.
>

Doesn't matter if he knows him, and your opinion of whether Marc
should trust him is less relevant than anything we've discussed so
far.

>This is clouding the issue.  Marc made references to the A4000 under 256 color
>mode and judged it "unusable", and stated that it "crawled".  These
>pronouncements were made after reading one person's report about the machine,
>and never having any experience on it whatsoever.

It's your right to have an opinion on Marc's opinion.  It's not your
right to say that Marc can't have an opinion just because he hasn't
experienced the slowness first-hand.
 
I used the hurricane as an example;  it obviously doesn't have a
point-to-point correspondence to this situation.

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@tronsbox.xei.com          *
 *                                                              *
    "There is nothing more frighful than ignorance in action."  

                           Malcolm X
XY + XX = :-)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23277 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:14949 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13522 comp.sys.amiga.emulations:3831
From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.emulations
Subject: Re: High Density drive for the Amiga???
Date: 6 Sep 92 18:40:40 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

davereed@wam.umd.edu (Michael Robert Bromery) writes:


>  Don't they have anything better to do? I don't see a bunch of amihga
>  owners going to comp.sys.ibmpc or something and flame them. What's the
>   problem here? Do these guys just have an attitude problem or just want to
>  be punks and fight against people who just want to use their system in
>   peace. Geez! that's all I ask for. <sigh> By the way, anyone ready

It's not so bad these days, and I will point out to you that there was a huge
flamewar between the NeXT and Amiga groups, with Amigaites posting to NeXT
groups as well as vice-versa, so we don't have a clean record as you suggest.

>              --- Michael Bromery.

Wulf                    | "Martha, it's another one of those CS majors asking
jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |  if cow chips are pin-compatible with 68040s..."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: terjem@stud.cs.uit.no (Terje Normann Marthinussen)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: University of Tromsoe
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:42:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.150640.19804@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:
>
>: the next chipsets will be faster.  I personally use a program called CpuBlit.
>: It uses the 030 or 040 for blitting.  The old blitter is about the same speed
>: as a 68000 (flat out), an accelerated amiga wipes it out.  CpuBlit uses the
>
>This is not the full truth - blitter is faster than 68000 in just
>about all cases and quite equal (depends on case) to 68030. Also
>CpuBlit does not fully replace blitter, but it only replaces some
>(one?) very simple blitting routines.
>
>--
>Jarkko Lindblad
>lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi

If I'm not totally wrong cpublit only speeds up text scrolling.

Terje Marthinussen
terjem@stud.cs.uit.no
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:24117 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:15324 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13932
From: ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Problems with the A4000
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:52:00
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: dej@qpoint.ocunix.on.ca's message of 13 Sep 92 19:27:50 EST

>>>>> On 13 Sep 92 19:27:50 EST, dej@qpoint.ocunix.on.ca (David Jones) said:

dej> Not to mention that a "multimedia" machine such as the 4000 would
dej> have its users wanting things such as tape drives and CD-ROM.  So
dej> easy with SCSI, but I guess A4000 users are going to have to pay
dej> even more to get a SCSI interface for their 4000s.

So, instead of being stuck with the two year old SCSI you can get a
new SCSI-II, and then (hopefully) use that on at least the next couple
of generations of the machine.  In the process saving you from buying
an SCSI over and over again.  The IDE on the A4000 is almost at no
cost and not including it on the mother board simplified the mother
board design and debug and development cost.

dej> I've actually seen SCSI hard disk prices lower than IDE prices
dej> for the SAME hard disk model, manufacturer AND vendor.  Check the
dej> ads in BYTE!  You are not saving much by going to IDE, and you're
dej> screwing many high end users.  I wonder if Amiga Unix knows about
dej> IDE...

Why do people think its the drive prices that are dramatically
different.  I've only seen at most a 10% difference.  The IDE reduces
cost of the 4000 because it is much simpler than the SCSI in the 3000
even.   The added development cost is minimal and is offset by the
savings of not jamming it on the A4000 board and the saved production
cost.  

For those who want SCSI it will be available from C=.  Hopefully they
will offer a configuration with the SCSI card and SCSI drive and the
IDE shut off. (I take it that the IDE interface can be bypassed.)
Yes, you paid a little more because it's not on the board, but how
much difference does that make to Mr. High End buyer.  

dej> -- David Jones, 6730 Tooney Drive, Orleans, Ontario K1C 6R4
dej> CANADA email: dej@qpoint.ocunix.on.ca Fido: 1:163/109.8 AMIGA:
dej> Advanced Multimedia with Interactive Graphics and Audio

-- Andrew Hansford
   ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu
From: slbfn@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:33:53 MDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Sep12.170726.6907@nntp.uoregon.edu>, ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
> In article <1992Sep12.4477.28381@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>>
>>Has anyone who has been to the show
>>asked about when AGA Chipset will be available for the Amiga 3000 and if
>>it will work in on an Amiga 500/2000!
> 
>    The AGA chipset, while backwards compatable software-wise, is not a 
> drop-in replacement for the old classic and/or ECS chipsets. The pinouts of
> the Lisa are radically different, and all are full 32-bit. 
>    In order to move forward, you often have to make a break with the past.


  Break up with the past?  What about brake up with the present?
  Just a couple of months ago, I purchased an A3000-16MHz and 1950 for $2100
 
  At WOC, NEW AMIGA 3000-25MHz were being sold for $1600!  

  Greetings,

	Travis Carter
	slbfn@cc.usu.edu
 
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
> All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: MACers join the crowd...
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:20:36 GMT

Everyone see the vote results in newgroups? Seems the MAC people now have their
own advocacy group to shout ... uh... exchange ideas in. (Like they need it...
in most of the world, either you BUY a MAC, or you can't AFFORD a MAC...)

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger?
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:22:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.152217.21004@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
>Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:22:17 GMT
>>It seams with a lot of these new RPG (which I happen to like) is that is 
>>just adding more of the same without putting anything new into the genre.
>
>	I would say Ultima Underworld is pretty inovative.

I haven't seen this.  How much hard-drive real-estate does it take up?  None 
of my PC owning friends seem to want to spend more than 5meg (of h/d real-
estate) on a game and won't pay more than $0 dollars for it.  So I doubt I 
see it in action.  I've haven't seen Wing Commander yet either...  Piracy is 
getting pretty rampant over on the pc-side.  I don't know anyone who has the 
original Windows package!

>	Lets wait and see what Commodore releases and at what price its
>   gonna cost.  If the AA chipset machines are priced like the 040 A3000T,
>   not many game software compaines are going to support the AA chipset.
>   
>							G.Greene

I'll be interested in what the prices are going to be like.  I read a quote 
from a Commodore engineering talking about "new technology" and "
competitively priced" in reply to criticisms on "internet"? in a magazine.
If the new machines aren't well priced, I'll be getting a '386dx clone too.
I'll keep my amiga though, as it's an interesting machine.  I sold/junked my 
Vic-20, Commodore-64, Apple clone, IBM XT clone, so it's the only machine I 
have ever considered keeping.


Jim


PS.  Jerry, I don't think the poster said he owned an Amiga (CDTV, SNES?, 
PC, Mac, Apple IIGS maybe), so I don't think you can call him a biased 
Amigan.  I don't want to follow up and to start even more threads.


Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
InterNet  10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au     \_.-._/       Brentford Square
 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: a4000 specs? who know
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:34:35 GMT

In article <3737@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:

>>SCSI drives cost more because they're better drives to begin with.
>
>  That's horseshit and you know it!  You couldn't give me a Seagate drive,
>SCSI, IDE or MFM, they're all crap.  And Maxtor makes IDE drives, same
>hardware, different electronics.

The high-end Seagates aren't too bad (i.e. the Imprimis line, which, I
believe, is the result of Seagate's buyout of CDC, an excellent drive
maker).  The under-100-meg drives aren't too great, though.

As you mentioned, usually the only difference between IDE and SCSI
drives are the electronics.  The mechanical parts are the same.  Also,
for some reason, you don't see many high-capacity (300+ MB) IDE
drives.  Is this a limitation of IDE, or simply a function of supply
and demand?
-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Upgrade path from A3000 -> A4000? Ask at WOC!
From: <JBK4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:57:13 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

I'd be more happy knowing if I can install the new chipset in my 3000 than
knowing about a power-up deal.  What's the word on it?  Anyone?

JK
From: asp@trail.sharpstone.com (Alexandre Sasha Polozoff)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM lamers at their worst - uiuc siggraph meeting
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:34:52 GMT
Reply-To: asp@trail.sharpstone.com
Organization: Sharpstone Trail Productions - Austin Texas USA
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Sep10.203022.23421@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> (comp.sys.amiga.advocacy), gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George McBay) writes:
> >Bullshit.  My 1981 Atari 800 can do the same thing.
> 
> 	Have you finally gone off the deep end, Jerry?  Or am I the crazy one?
> When did Atari (or a 3rd party) develope a genlocking device for the 800?
> The original poster was *not* talking about just taping output from an
> Amiga RF connected to a VCR....Almost anything can do that, if you use
> proper cables.  He was talking about things like Genlocks, which are
> fairly inexpensive devices that allow you to mix live action video
> with computer graphics, not all of one or the other.   This is used
> to titling, among other things.
> 

There are genlocks for the PC.  I was in a post-production house for
a film where the titling was done by a PC.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Polozoff      512/218-1178       Internet    asp@trail.sharpstone.com
Sharpstone Trail Productions          Compuserve  73467,252
Austin, Texas USA                     OSI Network Management Products
From: 2ftqkiln@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: scsi vs ide?
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:15:16 CDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Sep13.4477.28558@dosgate>, "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
> 
> -> Two IDE drives are supported per cable (daisy chain). However, your
> -> point is still valid -- IDE in the A4000 is really dumb when you
> -> consider that C= already had a good SCSI design. You can always count
> -> on Commodore to abandone a good thing. :-(
> 
>  Commodore has abandoned "A GOOD THING" SCSI devices. They offer it as
> an option for the Amiga 4000. This helps keep the price of the machine
> down.
> 
>  Put it this way, If Commodore has used the SCSI controller found in the
> A3000, how many people would be bitching that they didn't use a SCSI II
> interface. Now you have the option to buy a Commodore SCSI II interface
> when it becomes available or one of the many 3rd party SCSI II
> interfaces when they become available.

True, and when they use the 4000 platform but instead put a 030 or 020
and knock the HD down to 50MB then this will be a very well placed
computer in the price wars for what you get. And someone in the low
range doesn't need scsi II they only need any HD controller. As for
high end, in any tower version they should have scsi II but for
desktop i think the choice of which scsi II controller to get is 
a good choice and its probably good that commodore didn't put it
in. I would have liked to have seen it there but lets be practical..

> --
> Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
> World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 92 19:43:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep4.170730.27008@sbcs.sunysb.edu>

>        Phil Robinson did not know what n Amiga 3000 was or what Workbench
>2.0 was. If he did, the article would not have been written. Many people
>think that the only Amiga on the market is either the A1000 or the A500.

Ah. Then I can see you never read his follow up article that he wrote
after all the "input" from Amiga people.

> And are you not the expert?

Is this a line from a Devo song?

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: Upgrade path from A3000 -> A4000? Ask at WOC!
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 06:16:57 GMT

In article <92256.155713JBK4@psuvm.psu.edu> <JBK4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I'd be more happy knowing if I can install the new chipset in my 3000 than
>knowing about a power-up deal.  What's the word on it?  Anyone?

   No - AGA is not pin compatable with ECS. You cannot plop the AGA chipset
into the A3000. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Date: 7 Sep 1992 01:59:05 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND) writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:

>>What I don't agree is when people say interlaced video looks just as good
>>as non-interlaced video (at the same vertical scanning frequency).

Hopefully I've made myself clear in another post so there's no more
confusion about vertical scanning frequency/field rate, and refresh rate.

>                                   ...or that a flicker fixer outputted
>display (which starts life as interlace) still doesn't look as good as a
>display that omes from an originally non interlaced source? I'm confused.

I never said this.  I'm sure the flicker-fixer does exactly what its name
suggests.

-- Nan
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Adventures with Nigel Migraine
Distribution: world
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:08:20 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

>sounds oxymoronic
Oxymoronic isn't a word.  And you obviously don't know what an oxymoron is.
Hint:  Look in the dictionary........


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: gs@TEETOT.ACUSD.EDU (Greg Simon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: FINALLY!  THE MARC BARRETT POSTING TRANSLATOR!!!
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:36:38 GMT


Has anyone successfully compiled the Marc Barrett flame-program?

Has it been sent to Fred Fish for inclusion in his library?  It is a
good example of code-writing techniques :-)

 -Greg

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy