From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Why do people HATE Image?
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:45:37 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Nov17.001924.3940@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st902173@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

+>okay, i'm generally a lurker, but i have to do this.
+>the reasons i hate image:
+>actually, the reason i could like them first:
+>i could admire image because it represents a group of creators
+>(term used loosely here) who had the balls to break away from the
+>norm, remove unfair editorial control from their creations, and    
+>generally take their creations into their own hands. HOWEVER,
+>i do not like the fact that the creations which have been produced
+>under the image banner represent little more than a reworking of the
+>work these people did for marvel. 

	What does it matter that these books look similar to the 
books they worked on at Marvel.  In the example of Leifeld, (whose
works I am no fan of by any means)  do you really expect him to
refuse to ever do anything remotely like his work at marvel just
because he left the company?  The work he did at marvel was in
his style and mostly his visual designs.  Now obviously if he
duplicates anything whole, then that is wrong.  But I look at
what he is doing on youngblood and can't find much more simularity
than it looks like a team book drawn in Liefeld style.

	What they are doing is no more thevery than lets say
any of the big companies continuting to publish series using
writers and artists as interchangable parts.
	At Marvel, Stan Lee sits in the background silently
credited for the success of characters/concepts (like lets
say x-men) in which he had a rather limited involvement and
on which he has not worked on in over 20 years.


+>i resent the fact that the books 
+>produced by image are some of the best selling books on the market
+>and are complete trash at the same time, while cerebus and other
+>worthy books are virtually ignored by many dealers and conventions. 
+>(it is very ironic that cerebus has actually been adveritsed in 
+>image books)

	Its not all that Ironic because Sim seems to understand that
there is nothing "evil" about image by reports.  You could put
image out of business tomorrow and dealers/conventions STILL would
not bother with Cerebus.  
	Sandman in general terms sells so well in Dallas that its 
impossible to even find any back issues at all for sale beyond
about one month back.  And yet the price guides say the books are
not in demand and the prices/promotion of the books both stay low.
	The local retailer chain (Lone star) refers to Sandman and
the DC mature line in general as "Death-oriented" books.  He
dislikes them and does editorials about how DC is wrecking itself
by doing all these "Death oriented books".


+>	i do not like the fact the the image phenomenon has done a 
+>wonderful job of shifting the focus of the comics medium (for many people)
+>towards the art on a book, rather than the story or comic as a whole.

	I think that focus has always been there and that good art can
cover up lots of bad writing.  Streanko, Starlin, Byrne, Neal Adams, Kirby,
Ditko...etc are examples of past people who have been able to be big
"stars" in the industry surpassing in most cases the writers who worked
with them or doing the writing themselves.

	



+>	in addition, this type of mindset has turned the comics market
+>into a collectors, rather than a readers market. the purpose of a comic
+>book is to tell a good story, not to provide college tuition for your children  . today, many kids who are discovering comics are buying comics only because
+>a particular book might be worth money, rather than because they actually 
+>like the comic. the fosters the "multiple copies" syndrome, so that 
+>people begin spending their money on several copies of one book rather than 
+>trying out new titles which do not seem to have the immediate value potential.  if people actually read the books and like them, and buy them for that 
+>reason alone, then there is no problem. however, that should be the only 
+>reason to buy a comic. 

	Again, this started long before image appeared and will continue
to go on as long as people buy into books being "investments".  I dont
see Image as being any more damaging to the industry as a whole than
Valiant, Dark Horse, Malibu or Marvel.  
	The people who decide to buy sandman or cerebus generally do
so because they "like" the books.  If the "investors" don't buy into
Image, they are just going to buy into Robin 3000, bagged x-men or
some other gimmick.  You could wipe out all the fan-oriented books
and still not have people rushing to buy Cerebus.
	I think that the birth of the price guides dedicated to feeding
the investor mentality (Wizard and CVM in particular) have done more
damage to the industry than image could ever do.


+>	ultimately, i, personally, do not like image's books. i fell that 
+>the art is too exaggerated to be enjoyed, and that the stories are far
+>below average. the books are exatly what the banner suggests-'image'.

	I can't understand how you can blanket judge all the various
books like this.  Each book has a style and a personality of its own.
Spawn and Savage Dragon are not high art, but they are better in quality
by far than half of the books put out by the Majors.
	Lumping them all together is not fair to the books or the people
who work on them.

+>	now, this does not mean that i hate image absolutely. i am going to buy
+>spawn 8-11, more out of curiosity than anything else. if image ever produces
+>an book other than these which seems worth some of my small supply of
+>cash, i will buy it. at this time, however, i can not respect image because
+>i feel that they have done nothing to benefit the comics industry. instead, 
+>they pull it down into trends described above which, i feel, can only hurt the  comics industry as a whole. 

	They hurt the industry no more than the existance of any other 
company.  I don't really know what company has "benefit[ted] the comics
industry by its existance ever.  Everyone is in the game to make money
or sell books to a particular audience.

	If anything Valiant appeals much more shamlessly to all of the
trends your describing (or at least it used to).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc