HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:34:34 EDT
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Perot's Economic Figures - TV
 <1992Oct7.174316.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> <1992Oct8.132759.9489@bnr.ca>

In article <1992Oct8.132759.9489@bnr.ca>, bucknerb@bnr.ca (Brent Buckner) says:

>Yes, it was definitely a political speech.  For example, he discussed
>infant mortality, something that is beyond the focus of
>mainstream economics.  Further, as you rightly point out, there was no
>attempt to present a balanced case.  Finally, it was part of a political
>campaign.

While I agree that it was a political speech (hey, it's a political job,
not an economic job), I'll take issue with your statement that infant
mortality is "beyond the focus of mainstream economics".  Health economics
is one of the fastest growing fields in economics.  If you consider applied
micro as "mainstream" and infant mortality as one of the key dep. var.
in health economics, one of the fastest growing applied micro fields,
then I think you're incorrect in making infant mortality "beyond the focus."

>>I don't recall Perot saying anything about inflation and i%.
>
>Well, real long-term interest rates are quite high by historical
>standards (including recent history).  Low nominal interest rates
>are based upon the lower inflation of the past twelve years.
>I have no doubt that Perot omitted this policy success.
>
>>
>>Also, Perot did not mention how much money he made in stocks during the last
>>twelve years either.
>>
>
>That had very little to do with the overall situation
>of the country.  On a practical note, mentioning it would only have
>served to further alienate voters.
>
>>
>>Oscar Trevizo, trevizo@fnal.fnal.gov
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>These are just my opinions, and not necessarily Fermilab's.
>
>
>--
>at Bell-Northern Research
>voice:        (613) 765-2739
>Canada Post:  P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7
>I do not claim that BNR holds these views.
Dennis G. Shea, Penn State
"I believe that there is social and psychological justification
for significant inequalities of incomes and wealth....But it
is not necessary....that the game should be played for such
high stakes as at present."  John Maynard Keynes
Dennis G. Shea, Penn State
<<DISCLAIMER>>
Ain't nobody's bizness but my own. I'll be happy to accept all
the credit for anything I've written.  It's funny, however, how
employers only acknowledge the profitable ideas.
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Have we already lost control of the national debt?
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:29:50 GMT
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

What with the public's refusal to pay more taxes and congress
unwilling to reduce spending, are we doomed to let the fraction
of the budget (now 20% ?) that goes to service the debt grow
until the debt has to be repudiated?

Are we damned if we do and damned if we don't? If we try to 
reduce spending to balance the budget, won't that cause
negative growth (a recession and how long would it have to
be?) and if the debt is repudiated our money would be worthless
and the economy shattered.

In short, is it already too late?

-- 
Bruce Watson (wats@scicom)  Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando.  
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: akelly@cs.ulowell.edu (Allen Kelly)
Subject: Stock Market
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:25:38 GMT

I'm working on a history project for school and i need more information on the stock market i.e. the crash, etc.  It would help me alot if anyone could give me info on this.  Thanx
					-Earwax
From: akins@flamingo.cis.ohio-state.edu (gregory adkins)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Clinton Economics
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:15:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Oct16.031549.1635
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

I have been hearing comparisons of Clinton economics to R. Reich economics.
Unfortunately, I have not been following the election close enough
to understand how closely Clinton is following the philosophies of Reich.

Does anyone know what differences exist between Reich's propositions
and Clinton's plan.

Specifically, I mean those propositions put for in Reich's _The Resurgent
Liberal_. (It is the only Reich that I have read ).

Please E-mail me.  Most of the posts in this group are way over my head
so I don't subscribe.

Appreciate the help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Akins                            |  It was not my strength that
akins@cis.ohio-state.edu              |  wanted nursing, it was my 
				      |  imagination that wanted
				      |  soothing. - Joseph Conrad
                                      
Xref: sparky sci.econ:8130 talk.politics.misc:52146
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Unemploment (Re: Presidential Debates)
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:09:35 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <1992Oct8.205859.29664@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>In article <84325@bcsaic.boeing.com> lbaum@bcsaic.boeing.com (Larry Baum) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct2.124453.12327@hemlock.cray.com> rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
>>: 
>>: Do you mean the way that there were 57,000 fewer jobs last month, new claims
>>: for unemployment has been up every week for the last 5 weeks, yet the
>>: unemploment rate went *down* to 7.5%?
>>: 
>>: I'm still trying to figure out how fewer jobs and more unemploment claims
>>: can result in lower unemployment.  Maybe I'll find out after November 3rd...
>>: 
>>: The country has 200,000 fewer jobs than 2 months ago while the unemployment
>>: rate has dropped 0.2%.  
>>
>>The likely reason is that the unemployment rate does not
>>include those discouraged people who have given up seeking
>>jobs.  ...
>
>The most likely reason is that school's back in session. Seasonal
>unemployment by high school and college students routinely distorts
>the statistics.

They seasonally adjust the figures to remove that factor, based on previous
years' experiences.

-dk
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: pwg1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Paul W. Grimes)
Subject: Re: Nobel prize
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 02:19:59 GMT

Gary Becker and/or Jacob Mincer.  (If not this year, soon.)

 
--
Paul W. Grimes, Ph.D.			Voice:    (601)325-1987
Associate Professor of Economics	FAX:      (601)325-2410
College of Business & Industry		Internet: pwg1@Ra.MsState.Edu
Mississippi State University 		Bitnet:   pwg1@MsState.Bitnet		
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire)
Subject: Re: You can't be serious
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:00:41 GMT

cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:

>What really bothers me about looking at the federal debt/GNP ratio is this
>is the wrong ratio to look at.  The federal debt is the "government" debt.
>The GNP is the peoples income.  The assumption that the ratio is acceptable
>assumes that GNP is "government" income--which it is not.  A better ratio
>would be to compare federal debt with federal income (which is about a factor
>of 5).

>Charlie

Unfortunately, the government doesn't play by the same rules as you and I. 
For us regular folk, the correct ratio is debt/income.  The problem is that
my income has a strange tendency to become the government's income.  :-(

Scott McGuire
Xref: sparky sci.econ:7983 talk.politics.theory:4458
From: jfh@reef.cis.ufl.edu (James F. Hranicky)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Economic Discrimination was Outgrowing Libertarianism...
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:56:52 GMT
Followup-To: sci.econ
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: What happens when USA goes bust?
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.
Keywords: 

In article <BvCCpA.1Mz@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>>BTW, that's also why natural sciences/engineering have been so successful
>>and why social sciences/engineering have failed to produce anything nearly
>>as useful.
>
>  The social "sciences" have failed us miserably because they refuse to
>  be sufficiently rigorous in their theories and models, and thus failing,
>  they refuse to acknowledge this to the public.   
>
>
>---peter

Social "engineering" has failed because of the premise that people can be
treated like building material, i.e., the "enlightened" will decide for the
"material" what is best for them. The irony, as is so often when people feel
they have the right to direct the lives of others, is that these "engineers"
have done precisely what is worst for the "material"--preventing some from
thinking for themselves, and allowing others the luxury of not needing to
think for themselves.

Jim Hranicky (jfh@reef.cis.ufl.edu)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,alt.amateur-comp,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism
From: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: Re: Vote for 3rd party/no-party candidates!!!
Reply-To: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:40:21 GMT


In a previous article, mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) says:

>In <1992Oct9.134942.19343@news.ysu.edu> ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>
>>The historical record indicates that a decrease in the number of hours 
>>worked results in a proportional or more than proportional increase in
>>productivity for several reasons.
>
>
>Are you sure you have attributed cause and effect correctly.  It is quite
>possible, that rising productivity allowed a decrease in working hours.
>
Yes I am sure I have attributed cause and effect correctly. The Frankfurter
Brief is about 300 pages documenting sources from around the world that
show the beneficial effects of shorter hours.

Without govt regulations like shorter hours, health and safety regulation,
etc. the most advanced technology ends up being used the longest hours
because the employers are trying to get back their investment most 
quickly.

The Ten Hours Advocate published in England in 1846-7 (and led to 
the passing of the Ten Hours Law) showed how the Mills in England where
the most advanced machinery was used were the greatest offenders of
long hours and dangerous working conditions.

              Ronda

>
>-- 
>Mark
>My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.
>Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
>
>
-- 
Ronda Hauben                    email address:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Amateur Computerist Newsletter              or
P.O. Box 4344                   rhauben@heartland.bradley.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
From: dcaulkins@igc.apc.org (Dave Caulkins)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Economic Democracy
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:00:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct8.164920.27370@leland.sta:1818218612:cdp:1466000002:000:306
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dcaulkins    Oct  8 22:00:00 1992


Voting for the people who decide how to spend the money is a
vastly different scheme than voting directly on how the money is
to be spent.  As we see, the existing system is considerably
corrupted; allowing each tax payer to vote on spending is
democracy in the original Greek meaning of the word.

Dave C
Newsgroups: sci.econ,alt.amateur-comp
From: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: Re: Nobel Prize
Reply-To: ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:52:48 GMT


In a previous article, wich1820@ww.tu-berlin.de (Thorsten Wichmann) says:

>Any suggestions who will or should win the Nobel prize for economics this time?  
>What about Mancur Olson???
>
I can't say who will win it because those who make real breakthru's in 
economics will not even be considered.

But I have a suggestion of who SHOULD win the Nobel prize for economics

The world in general is in economic doldrums -except for one significant
and amazing breakthru - that is the significance of the telecommunications 
revolution that has created the BIGGEST MACHINE IN THE WORLD  - the 
connection of automation and of people -

This is an outstanding development which has been clarified in a recent
article that was posted on the net "Net Cultural Assumptions..."
by Gregory G. Woodbury. 
 
The essence of the article is that the development of the net has
been the hard work of many people who wanted to communicate and who
therefore did the hard work necessary to make such communication possible.

And the communication that is now possible and functioning is a very
important achievement.

The splendid achievement of USENET News and the many pioneers unsung
and unrewarded - who put hard time and energy into both the work to
make usenet possbile via the programs needed and the working out of 
the theory of why it was something important.

Usenet has meant that people around the world have wanted to figure
out how to be connected with each other and so the nets like
the Internet, UUCP etc. have developed and spread.

(Not only do these pioneers deserve the economics prize but also
the peace prize).

This is an unnoted achievement of our times - and it was build on
restricting commercial usage and ecouraging education and research
activity and purposes.

This flies in the face of all the current dominant economic dogma
which proclaims commercial the be all and end all (and is thus
responsible for the bankrupting of whole countries and societies).

So there is a need for a legitimate Nobel Prize in economics
to be awarded  - but it is hard to believe that any such thing is
yet possible.

But it was good that you asked.

>Thorsten
>
>===============================================================================
>T. Wichmann, Dept. of Economics, Technical University of Berlin
>
Ronda
-- 
Ronda Hauben                    email address:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Amateur Computerist Newsletter              or
P.O. Box 4344                   rhauben@heartland.bradley.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: dons@is.ussprint.com (Don Stadler)
Subject: Re: Japanese Economy
Organization: US Sprint-IS
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:44:45 GMT

>   It's incredible.  The Japanese economy looks to be heading towards
>   upwards of a ONE TRILLION dollar bank bailout.

Sort of looks like it to to me. The Japanese stock market of the 80's
will be remembered as one of the biggest bubbles in history, right
up there with the South Sea bubble (England, ~1720), Missippi (France,
same time), and the Dutch tulip craze (around 1640). I remember looking
at the P/E ratio of the average stock in the Japanese market (about 80),
and wondering when the crash would come. Also, what effects there would
be. I think we now can see the effects. The two big lenders of the 80's,
Japan and Germany, have become net withdrawers from the world money system.
Add the capital demands from the former Russian bloc and from China, and it
looks to be quite a capital shortage for the next few years!

The scary part is that while the Japanese P/E ratios are down, they are still 
selling at P/E ratios from 2 to three times western norms. It also is quite
apparent that the government allows/connives with Japanese financial companies
to cook their books. So we don't know the full story yet. 

If the P/E ratio of Japanese stocks fell to western levels (from 10 to 20),
one might see a Nikkei of 6000 to 8000 yet.

Big Japanese companies are laying off masses of "part-timers". These are people
who work upwards of 30 hours/week for years in many cases. They don't fall under
the "lifetime employment". The official Japanese unemployment rate isn't nearly
comparable to U.S. figures. It's nearest counterpart in our figures is the sub-
rate for white caucasian/asian male heads of household. Does anyone know this 
rate right now in the U.S? I suspect it is the lowest of all groups in our country.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something as bad as the Geat Depression in Japan.
Good luck to em'. I wouldn't wish that on anyone!


Don Stadler
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Two Speed Europe
Keywords: Europe maastricht economics pizza
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:49:15 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct9.163747.3197@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, vcbowles@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Saccio Vanzetti) writes:
|>
|> Over the past few weeks it seems that there has been much effort 
|> exerted in order to prevent Western Europe from splitting up int 
|> two groups of nations on two seperate economic tracks. 

If you are talking about the effort various countries put into trying
to keep their currencies in the ERM, there's a good reason.   If your
currency is *credibly* linked to the DMark, then currency investors
are supposed to be more likely to assume that it won't fall in value, 
so they don't demand such high interest rates wrt German interest 
rates from you.

As it turned out, of course, the currency investors aren't that
dumb.   Dumb, but not that dumb.


|> There's no special reason (that I can see ) that prevents Germany, 
|> France, Benelux, etc. from forming an association of wealthy nations
|> that excludes counties like Britain(!), Italy, Spain, etc.

Now you're asking a different question.  Not why did they try to
hold things together, but can they separate into two groups.  The
answer is, to all intents and purposes, they already did.   Only
if the DMark-Franc link finally breaks will the whole thing finally
fall apart.   As long as the  DMark-Franc link holds, there is an
inner group.    Personally, I give it a couple of months.


|>                                  yet Kohl and Mitterand deny
|> any allegations that they have something like this planned.

Admit nothing.  Deny everything.   Keep your options open.
Enrage diplomats.    Annoy the Press.     Sounds like a plan. 


|> (Even if they did, what could the 'out' nations do about it?)

Nothing.   Same as they could do nothing all along.

jon.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: smcguire@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott McGuire)
Subject: Re: A NEW WAY TO REDUCE THE PUBLIC DEBT
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:20:32 GMT


The problem now is not the debt so much as the growth in the debt.  The growth
is caused by the deficit and interest.  Inflation does not help us in reducing
the deficit and the debt is not too high (yet) for us to pay off without
high inflation.  I believe the interest on the debt is about 300 billion a 
year.  We can afford this given the size of the federal budget.  The problem
is that we need to stop borrowing more.  We can take our time to pay off the
debt.  We can not take any more time in ending the deficit.

Scott McGuire.
From: v068mwnn@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (THE VISION)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: EXPORTING TO CZECHOSLOVAKIA
Keywords: heart monitors, medical supplies, etc
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Would it be feasible to export medical supplies (such as heart monitors)  
to the CSFR?  What are the economic, cultural, and/or political boundaries 
that would have to be traversed in such an action?

Thank you in advance,

Jesse Sibarium
From: dcaulkins@igc.apc.org (Dave Caulkins)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Economic Democracy
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:19:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct8.164920.27370@leland.sta:1818218612:cdp:1466000003:000:844
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dcaulkins    Oct  9 23:19:00 1992


>By definition, democracy is related to the principle of "one
>person, one vote." The above idea might be summarized as "one
>dollar, one vote." This is known as plutocracy.

Plutocracy, according to my dictionary, is "government by the
wealthy."  My scheme is not this; it simply allows tax payers to
determine by a democratic process how tax monies are to be
distributed across budget expenditure categories.  The scheme
generates an average-type consensus across all tax payers; if the
averaging algorithm weights all tax returns equally there is no
preference given to wealth.

>I think the above poster's confusion between democracy and
>plutocracy may reflect a fairly mucked up set of values.
>Robert Vienneau

I think Mr. Vienneau's ad hominem posting reflects a set of
values even more mucked up than any I am likely to hold.

Dave C
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu ("Broward "Claymore" Horne")
Subject:      The Big, BIG BOOM!
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:58:54 MST
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X-To: sci.econ.usenet


        Big Boom is acoming, chums.

        The Big, BIG BOOM!

        What, pray tell, might be the effect upon a weak world economy
    when commodity markets are glutted with Russian castoffs, a Japanese
    banking collapse, and rocketing U.S. interest rates?

         BOOM!
Xref: sparky sci.econ:8138 talk.politics.misc:52220 alt.politics.elections:17200
From: mccabe@gdls.CSCTMD.COM (Harold McCabe)
Subject: Federal Reserve:  'monetizing' debt
Followup-To: misc.invest
Keywords: monetization of debt, open market operations
Organization: Computer Sciences Corp. @ General Dynamics
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:24:02 GMT

I recently read one economist who said that the US Federal Reserve was
getting ready to monetize the US debt, to the tune of about $30 billion, in
1993.  Forgetting whether this prediction is true or not, I would like to
know just *how* the Fed monetizes debt.  The result of my initial investigation
into this, is that the Fed purchases Treasury bills, and credits the seller
of the bills with dollars; this is how the debt is monetized (and how money
is created).  When the Fed sells bills, the money supply is decreased.  But,
the Fed also buys/sells normally (when the debt is not being monetizes)
to adjust the money supply for seasonal variations.  How can one determine the
difference between normal Fed operations on the open market, and when the
Fed is 'monetizing the debt?'

Harold McCabe
Xref: sparky sci.econ:8017 talk.politics.misc:50426
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Unemploment (Re: Presidential Debates)
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:58:59 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <84325@bcsaic.boeing.com> lbaum@bcsaic.boeing.com (Larry Baum) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.124453.12327@hemlock.cray.com> rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
>: 
>: Do you mean the way that there were 57,000 fewer jobs last month, new claims
>: for unemployment has been up every week for the last 5 weeks, yet the
>: unemploment rate went *down* to 7.5%?
>: 
>: I'm still trying to figure out how fewer jobs and more unemploment claims
>: can result in lower unemployment.  Maybe I'll find out after November 3rd...
>: 
>: The country has 200,000 fewer jobs than 2 months ago while the unemployment
>: rate has dropped 0.2%.  
>
>The likely reason is that the unemployment rate does not
>include those discouraged people who have given up seeking
>jobs.  To get counted one must be actively looking for work.
>The number of discouraged workers is quite high.  If they were
>counted the unemployment rate would be over 10% and would be
>higher than the figure for last month.

The most likely reason is that school's back in session. Seasonal
unemployment by high school and college students routinely distorts
the statistics.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.econ