HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lou@cs.sfu.ca (Lou Hafer)
Subject: Re: Jointer vs Planer
Summary: bandsaw, planer, jointer
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:52:32 GMT

	What I find interesting about this whole debate (jointer, planer,
bandsaw) is the general assumption that there's a table saw already sitting
around in the shop. The first major power tool I bought was an 18" bandsaw,
and I bought it specifically because it can resaw a 10" board. I don't have
room for a tablesaw and a bandsaw, and all my experience to that point told
me that I wasn't going to be happy with the choice of S2S thicknesses from
the local retail (read, small quantity) lumber suppliers. Several years
later, I still don't have a tablesaw, and I still think it was the right
decision.  I was gifted with a portable planer and 6" jointer about two years
ago, but to that time had been getting along rather nicely with hand planes
and scrapers for surfacing.  If I had to give one up, I'd part with the
jointer. Planing edges or warps is easy compared to full surface planing.

	Depends a lot on what you do, I suppose - I tend more toward small
furniture pieces so I don't run into the bandsaw's throat limit too often.  I
also lean toward highly figured wood, which often doesn't take well to
machining.  But in the end, maybe the biggest consideration is how much of a
hurry you're in.  I get maybe 2 hrs. working time every other weeknight, and
with luck a full day on a weekend; definitely hobby only.  Counting my time,
I figure most things I make are worth several thousand dollars. :-) It still
amazes me that furniture makers can ever make a living knocking this stuff
out by hand - they must be able to achieve a speed of work that's still far
beyond me.

							Lou Hafer
							lou@cs.sfu.ca
From: jabarnes@batph5.bnr.ca (Jeff Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Gift suggestions for new Table Saw owner?
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: jabarnes@bnr.ca
Distribution: world
Organization: BNR Atlanta

|> 
|> My father just purchased a new Sears 10" table saw.
|> Anybody have any suggestions for Christmas gifts?
|> (i.e. table saw accessories, blades, etc.)  What
|> do you find most handy?
|> 

The first thing I bought for my Sears table saw was a good blade.
The one that they come with is basically garbage. Invest in a good
carbide tip combination blade. This will be a great gift.

-- 
----------

Jeff Barnes                      jabarnes@bnr.ca
BNR Inc.                     
705 Westech Drive
Norcross, GA 30092
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Douglas N. Surber)
Subject: What about Unisaw competitors?
Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:52:54 GMT


Sometime early next year, for absolutely no rational reason, I am going
to buy   

	 Ta Da!          
	                    A Real Table Saw.         
							  (Say "Amen".)



Yes I know that the Delta Contractor's Saw is all the saw I need, but I
want   A Real Table Saw.  I need one, I mean it's important that I have
one, I mean, it's like really cool, . . . All the guys have one, please?

Sorry . . .

Anyway, the default choice is of course the Delta Unisaw.  And a fine
aggreation of cast iron it is.  The Powermatic Model 66 is also in the
running.  So far as I can tell from casual examination, the main
differences between the two are that 1) the Powermatic tilts left and
the Delta right, and 2) the Delta is boring grey and the Powermatic is
ugly gold.

I have also looked at the Inca 2100, but $2200 is just too much money to 
pay for a table saw (and $1600 isn't?).  It's a beautiful tool, but I just
can't talk myself into spending the money.

And now to the point of this post (about time).

What about other choices?  I have heard of General and Davis & Wells (?),
but have never seen either and have no idea where to find out more about
them or even where to buy one.  Should I search out more info about these
or are they out of the running due to price, quality, or whatever?  Is
one of them so good that I should make a special effort to look into it?
Are there others I should look at?  Anything else you want to tell me?
How about them Cubs? (Sorry, forget that last one.)

One of the local tool dealers carries Hitachi and can get the Hitachi
table saw for me, but I'd kind of like to buy American unless there's
an overwhelming reason not to.  I've looked at some Taiwanese tools and
while they no doubt work, they don't have the sweaty palms kind of polish
I want.

That Hitachi resaw bandsaw is one of the most awesome things I have ever
seen.  A three inch bandsaw blade is truly a sight to behold.  And they
swear that it will handle a quarter inch blade as well.  If only the table
would tilt, I'd get that instead of a table saw. :)


Douglas Surber             "Would you rather debug at
Lockheed                    compile time or run time?"
Houston, TX                      --Michael B. Feldman
--
Douglas Surber             "Would you rather debug at
Lockheed                    compile time or run time?"
Houston, TX                      --Michael B. Feldman
From: bennett@adobe.com(Bennett Leeds)
Subject: Re: Artisan Table Saw
Reply-To: bennett@adobe.com
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:51:18 GMT

George Oliver writes
> The dealer I bought my Artisan's saw from also carried Delta.  While the base
> Delta Contractor's saw was less expensive ~550 with rebate, I thought by  
taking
> everything into consideration the Powermatic Artisan's ~700 was a better  
deal.
> First off the fence is better.  Delta: Jet Lock; Powermatic: Vega.

The real comparison is the Delta with Unifence versus the Artisan. This 
also gets the prices closer to each other. 


> Next, the Powermatic's motor was beefier

In what sense? Rated horsepower? Amperage? Internal construction? Did you
compare motor warranties?


> the steel gauge used for the cabinet is heavier

Does that make a difference in the saw's performance?


> the cranks are higher quality

You mean the handwheels?  Again, does that make a real difference in the
saw's performance? What about the blade tilt and height mechansims - are
they higher quality?

The things I'd be interested in are: how flat the table surfaces are, how
much runout is in the arbors, what size and quality bearings are used in
each saw, how well are the arbors balanced, what the drive mechanism
is like, how well machined are the miter gauge slots, etc. These are the
things that affect how well the machine cuts and how long it will last.
While a cheap handwheel is no fun, I'd rather have an arbor with less
runout than a better handwheel.

Note I'm not saying that the Delta is better in this criteria, only that
it is the criteria I'd use to compare saws.


> and the wings are cast iron verses the Delta stamped steel.

The cast iron wings *are* flatter, but they also have big holes in them that
I find disconcerting. On the Delta with Unifence, you don't use the right
hand wing (you make/buy a table board), so you only have the stamped
steel wing at the left. It is also possible to buy a solid cast iron wing
from Delta. But overall, I'd have to give the nod to the Powermatic for
wings (note that Grizzly touts this same advantage).


> One of the deciding factors for me was the fence....
> If I wanted to get an aftermarket fence for the Delta, I would
> end up spending an additional $200 for a good fence.  So even though I
> spent more money, it worked out and I am very happy with my purchase.

You actually spent less money than the Delta with Unifence (although I've
recently heard of deals as low as $650 with rebate on the DC with Unifence).
Note also that the Vega fence that comes with the Artisan saw is a scaled
down version of their own aftermarket fence, which is pretty nice.

Given that the Artisan saw is made in Taiwan (by Rexxon, I've heard), another
interesting comparison is the Grizzly saw outfitted with the aftermarket 
fence of your choice. At say $400 (including shipping), plus another 
$200-$300 for fence, you're in the same price range.

- Bennett Leeds
bennett@adobe.com
From: spangler@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bill Spangler)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:43:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Brio Toy Parts
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

Since nobody has commented, I will.

Ideally you must know what kind of stain base was used.  Some penetrate 
deeply, some are superficial.  Try stripping it in a less obvious area,
it may just lift off the stain.  I'm guessing, but I imagine the stain was
sprayed on over a filler base and will be easily removed.  That's how most
factory furniture is done.

If stripping fails, you must scrape or sand to bare wood.  That is a lot of 
work, obviously, and you may find that what you thought was cherry is 
partly poplar stained red.  That is often why strong stains are used,
they disguise cheaper wood.  Cherry is used for the drawer fronts, but the
structure may be other cheaper woods.

I hope that is not the case, and your efforts are rewarded with a magnificent
piece.

Incidentally, cherry is tricky to refinish, because it tends to blotch.  I
use a filler/stain to give even staining, some say this hides the grain too
much for their tastes.  You may want to try both and see what you prefer.
From: harris@sdd.hp.com (John Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: another plea for mantle advice
Date: 11 Dec 1992 20:14:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdl233.sdd.hp.com

In article <cf_8vvf0Bwxd9=tsp8@transarc.com>, Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com writes:
|> 
|>   My wife and I just bought an older (35 years) home
|> and we have a very nice fireplace in the living room
|> but it has no mantlepiece.
|> 
|>   I would appreciate any advice, ideas, recommendations,
|> including books and articles, that anyone out there
|> can provide.

I know that Fine Woodworking had an article on traditional fireplace
mantels a few years back.  I'd have to check to get the exact issue.

John Harris
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Subject: Re: Wood for Plane Soles
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:35:21 GMT

tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:

> Plane wood, persimmon, boxwood.  Where can one get such woods? Can one mail
> order them?  I can't find them for sale in Arizona.

You may have some local hardwoods that would be suitable.  I think there are
some desert "ironwoods", though maybe they're only available in short,
twisted sections.  Oak or hard maple should work too.  I have one plane made
of cherry, and it's holding up reasonably well.  I haven't noticed that the
wood chosen is critical, except for rough work such as that done by scrub
planes.

If you want a wood not available locally, check a woodworking magazine for
one of the many mail order wood suppliers.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:47:32 PST
From:         "Jim Johnson 7-9535 (6518 TS/EN)" <jjohnson@EDWARDS-SCY.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Re: biscuit joiners
              Dec 8, 92 8:25 pm

      I purchased my DeWalt biscuit joiner at Tool Crib of the North.
      Arrived just fine, hase a nice steel case and looks like it will last
      forever.

      James Johnson
      Standard Disclaimer
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: eap@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Edward A. Parrish)
Subject: Re: Safest way to use radial arm saw?
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:40:32 GMT

In article <1gt0gtINN12h@topaz.bds.com> ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie) writes:


>> Is it best to push the blade through the work, or pull it through the
>> work.
>
>Push, always push.
>
We need to get a definition of push. If you look at the RAS from
the left side, the blade rotates in a clockwise direction. For
crosscutting, the blade initially is behind the fence and the
workpiece in front, snugged against it. Now, it seems to me
you have to pull the blade through rather than push it. To
push would mean the blade would be at the end of the arm
initially; pushing it would result in the teeth lifting
the workpiece, which in turn would lead to some interesting
dynamics.
-- 
Goal: To benefit from the offer for "Free Tools Tomorrow" that
is posted in many store windows.
Standard Disclaimer, of course.
From: howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Bandsaws & Sears flame
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:06:44 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdum.col.hp.com

First congrats on saving a few bucks on the bandsaw.

There are a number of us on the net that use Sears table saws.  I have the
Sears 1.5(real) hp TS with the cast iron table and it is a workable tools if 
properly tuned.  While it is true that the fence is not the greatest this is 
allso true of the fences shipped with many/most of Delta's TSs.

Table saws are not inexpensive tools, a real good one with a good fence
can run you a grand or more.  You can not expect your TS to be as good as one 
costing many times more, you get what you pay for.

On the other hand if you tune up your TS it should be a useful tool.  If you
can't or will not upgrade the fence take the time to ensure that the fence is
adjusted properly prior to cutting.  

If you purchased you TS within the past year you should be able to have it
repaired/replaced or your money refunded if the saw really does not work.


asket@acad2.alaska.edu writes:
> I just bought a Delta 8" bandsaw, and I love it.  I happened to get a
> great price on it ($130, the store was selling off their Delta tools),
> but even for the more common price of $160-200, I think it's great.
> I'm even using it to do some things I would normally have used my
> piece-of-junk, wish-I-never-bought-it, I'll-never-buy-Sears-again table
> saw for...
-- 
Howard Rebel hpcsos.col.hp.com 

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: kwi@INEL.GOV (Keith Wickham)
Subject: Re: HELP: Looking for info on exotic hardwoods (mail order woes)
Reply-To: kwi@INEL.GOV (Keith Wickham)
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Lab
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:37:07 GMT

4/4 means rough cut to four quarters thick (one inch).  The wood may shrink
as it drys to about 7/8.  Surfaced 2 sides means it has been run through a
planner on two sides.  This usually reduces the board to 13/16.  The number
of flaws depends on the grade.  FAS, first and seconds is the top grade, but
even it will have some flaws.  Number 2 commmon is the lowest grade with about
half waste for most projects, but the most interesting grain.  You do not seem
happy with what you got, but I have no experience buying lumber mail order.
I end up driving 250 miles just to get domestic hardwoods, but at least I
can see it before I buy.

Just my 2 cents.

Please ignore the attached disclamer.
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:50:42 GMT
Subject: Re: re: Jointer vs Planer - Thanks
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
From: jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Roberts)
Subject: WoodSmith dovetail jig
Reply-To: jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:44:30 GMT

I'm considering ordering issue #58 of WoodSmith and building their
dovetail jig, mostly because people here said they liked it and it's
a cheap way to go.  But first I'm trying to add up the cost.  I called
WoodSmith and asked about the cost of the hardware kit ($34.95) but
the lady I spoke with couldn't tell me if I would also need to buy a
bushing for my router.

Could some kind soul with issue #58 tell me if I need a bushing to go
with my 1/2" dovetail and what size they specify if so?

Thanks in advance,
==============================================================================
J. Jeff Roberts              jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com             (205) 730-6155
	For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the 
	power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth...    Rom 1:16
==============================================================================
From: rstarr@pollux.svale.hp.com (Rob Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Machinery on Concrete Floors
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:43:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard CPCD, Sunnyvale CA

Has anyone ever observed any rusting problems for machines setting on a
concrete floor over a long period of time?  I am assuming the floor
is a bare concrete slab and does not get wet from something like hosing it
down.  This would be a slab at ground level (not a basement floor).  Does
concrete have/conduct enough moisture to cause the bottoms of machines
to rust significantly over a period of time?  

Thanks,
Rob Starr
From: twl10@ccc.amdahl.com (Tom Littauer)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Questions about building an exterior door
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: twl10@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Tom Littauer)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Dec16.162745.3997@ulysses.att.com> smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.005112.5567@eos.arc.nasa.gov>, phil@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Phil Stone) writes:
>> ... 
>> 
>> Tongue-and-groove seems to be a good method for joining the vertical
>> planks (suggest otherwise if you disagree).
>
>Umm -- I think you're going to get in trouble with expansion and contraction
>of the door as the humidity changes.  We have that problem with some T&G
>pine doors to closets in our basement -- in the summer, they're almost
>unusable.

You can have the look of T&G without the motion problems if your door is
really 3/4" exterior plywood with 1/2" shiplap on both sides. Fasten the
shiplap *ONLY* along the center of the vertical axis (so the wood can move
on each side) and remember to alllow space for the motion depending on
the humidity at the time you build vs. the rest of the year.

The sandwich thus created will be the standard 1 3/4" for exterior doors
and should have little in the way of motion problems. The Z-brace isn't
needed; if you want it for the look, be careful how you attach it (motion
again).

Good luck,
Tom
-- 
Tom Littauer at Amdahl M/S 278, PO Box 3470, Sunnyvale CA 94088-3470 USA
+1 408 737 5056     twl10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com     twl10@amail.amdahl.com
I'll tell you when I'm speaking as Amdahl's Spokesman - usually I'm not.
V'z n fgrnygu-grpuabybtl rapelcgrq .fvtangher ivehf - TBGPUN!!!
From: tmw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Tom Walley)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:44:32 GMT
Subject: Polyurethane Application
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

                    Polyurethane Application Questions

I am about to finish 14 windows and 2 doors with polyurethane and am
considering using a sprayer instead of a brush.  I would appreciate any bits
of wisdom about the following :
1).  Will a sprayer save me much time and/or will the finish be better?
     I ask this because I have had problems in the past on small projects
     with brush streaks and air bubbles in polyurethane even when using a
     foam brush.
2).  If a sprayer is the way to go, is an airless sprayer adequate or must I
     use a cup type with a air compressor?  Any recommendations on sprayer
     brand and sprayer aperture size would be great.
3).  Does the polyurethane need to be thinned or have some other type of
     "stuff" added to it in order for it to spray well?
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: knyal@ils.nwu.edu (Jarrett Knyal)
Subject: Anyone ever use Watco finishes?
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:00:26 GMT

I just ordered some Watco finish from McFeeley's.  Has anyone ever used this
stuff?  Is it any good?  They pretty much tell you how to use it right in the
catalog but if anyone can offer any additional tips, that would be great. 
Thanks. 
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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:13:55 -0800
From:         RMTYE@BIIVAX.DP.BECKMAN.COM
Subject:      Re: Machinery on Concrete Floors

I've had my tools in a non headed garage with a concreet floor for 2
years now. There doesen't seem to be a problem associated with the
concreet (the undersides and legs are just fine, it's the tops I have to
keep after because the ocean is about 1 mile away and the damp air is a
problem).

The concreet has a very smooth finish and may have been waxed or water
proofed.

                                Ron Tye (all opininons my own)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: ameres@ithaca.cat.rpi.edu (Eric Ameres)
Subject: Re: WoodSmith dovetail jig
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:48:34 GMT

In article <1goopmINNim6@roche.csl.sri.com> sgarcia@cisco.com (Steven Garcia) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.204430.7453@b11.b11.ingr.com>, jazz@jazz.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Roberts) writes:
>|> I'm considering ordering issue #58 of WoodSmith and building their
>|> dovetail jig, mostly because people here said they liked it and it's
>|> Could some kind soul with issue #58 tell me if I need a bushing to go
>|> with my 1/2" dovetail and what size they specify if so?
>
>Jeff,
>As requested, per Woodsmith #58:
>You will need to get your own 7/8" outside diameter guide bushing to fit
>your router.  Start with a dealer who carries accessories for your router.

Whoa!!!  My copy of WoodSmith #58 says the following (reprinted
without permission from "Sources" on page 24 middle of column 3):

GUIDE BUSHING:  You'll need a 7/16" outside diameter quide bushing for
1/2" dovetails and a 5/16" guide bushing for 1/4" dovetails.

additional stuff deleted...

I bought a Porter Cable dovetail accessory kit for about $15 which
includes a bit and the bushing (I have a PC adapter for my Ryobi).

I also bought the Woodsmith Kit including wood for $59.95 (I also
bought the 1/4" template but returned it) I haven't assembled it yet,
but another fellow here at RPI built one and a test drawer and brought
it to work.  

I'm very impressed with the potential of the kit and actually returned
the PC Omnijig I had gotten from Woodworker's supply ( I actually
ordered a Leigh (whoops!) and cancelled that as well).  Cost and
capability were the final factors.

For now all I require is the 1/2" halfblind capability and as I need
more capability from the jig I will probably redesign and re-build it (or
another).  I would eventually like to replace the plastic template
with an aluminum one (we have a computer controlled mill here at work
that I'm dying to get my hands on :^) )

Eric.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Ameres,  Software Engineer                 ameres@cat.rpi.edu
New York State Center for Advanced Technology in Automation & Robotics
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - CII 8313, Troy, NY 12180-3590
From: stockel@taupo.oc.nps.navy.mil (Jim Stockel)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: test
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:30:27 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School,Monterey CA


This is a test.  Please ignore.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking