HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan

>     Well, yes.  Words come into being in response to the need to express a
>concept or describe an object, right?  A few years ago you used to hear
>"AIDSjin."  Lately we've been hearing "gaitou" (gaijin no gai and ketou no tou)
>once in a while.    
> 
>     It is, as you suggest, not important which particular word is being used
>to convey these concepts at any given moment.  What is important, I think, is
>understanding what concepts are being communicated, whatever the terminology.
> 
>----------

I'd have to say this is correct based on the US experience.  For
example, any and all terms which have been used to describe those
citizens of the US of African decendancy have ended up as two edged
swords.  A particularly telling example is the shortening of "african-
american" to "afam", which is then used in a slightly negative sense.
I have watched this particular term evolve in real time on notes.

I have been assured several times by Japanese friends that "gaijin" is
not derogatory in itself.  It can be used in a negative way, but so can
the term "Japanese" in American English.  If you don't believe this,
read political literature from the left and the right, and you will see
the use of "Japanese" as a codeword for "sneaky foreigner".

In any case, I find the "gaijin" debate amusing.  It mainly exists
because of the shock of white American males (including myself) at
discovering that some people don't think we are God's gift to humanity.
My limited experiences in Japan, and elsewhere, have gradually convinced
me of something which I didn't used to believe:  racism is a deeply
internalized habit and is hard to recognise.  Without any explicit
effort at all, most white American males (again including myself) do
internalize the idea that they are on top of the world.  When they
encounter people (Japanese males is my example) with a similarly
internalized view of themselves, friction results.

Approach the world with the humility, caution, and respect it deserves.
Remember that your most deeply held beliefs are as likely to be wrong
as they are to be right.  Expect friction when dealing with people
who come from another culture.  All of these things help me somewhat.

--arne

P.S. - Despite this, I still feel strange being called "gaijin-san". :-)

DISCLAIMER:  I am speaking for myself, not my employer, HP.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:10412 talk.politics.guns:23840
From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: A Japanese student killed in Lousiana
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:33:39 GMT
	<Bx7xpM.FJr@ncifcrf.gov> <1992Nov5.022018.17105@adobe.com>
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
In-reply-to: pngai@adobe.com's message of 5 Nov 92 02:20:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.022018.17105@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
   writes:

 =}I don't think criminals will come to class at all. Since they cause most of
 =}the problems, I don't see education as being very helpful.

   Then you didn't learn much from the Louisiana incident.  A proper
education will help reduce incidents like the one involving Mr. Hattori.
I am 100% behind such an education...

Al
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: A Japanese student killed in Lousiana
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:14:42 GMT

In article <Nov05.072102.65541@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>	Mr. Ngai, if you edit someone's article, please try not to alter the 
>	original poster's intention.  In this article, Mr. Masuda was talking
>	about educating owners of firearms, but NOT about banning guns.

Since criminals cause most of the problems with firearms, we are either
talking about teaching them to shoot better, or we are talking about
wasting time on small problems while ignoring big problems.

-- 
My opinions are my own.
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Japanese exchange student killed in Louisiana...
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:20:57 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <5855@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com 
(Lawrence C Smith) writes:

=> ................................................... Just a few months ago
=> some kid in Boston (I think - one of the thousands of little towns inside
=> rt 128) was blown away by a cop because he drew his water pistol on a friend.
=> It was late in the day, the light wasn't good, it was a bad neighborhood, any
=> or all of which might have also applied to the student shooting.  So a
=> nine-year-old bites the dust when the cop sees him train what looked like
=> a gun on another person.  I suppose we should be grateful the kid was white
=> or we'd have had race riots.  The cop was not charged, or even disciplined.
=> It _looked_ like someone was going to be attacked.  That is a legitimate
=> excuse.

I'm not familiar with the story quite that way. I thought that the
kid with the water pistol was shot by another kid with a real
pistol. I don't think a cop was involved in that incident at all.
Can some one else verify? If someone's going to use this to argue
excuses, the story should at least be accurate. 

- Bill Lambert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Japanese Major Suggests Military Coup:Your Opinion? (mod. long)
Keywords: 'democracy' in Japan
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:59:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.093838.25119@westford.ccur.com> hank@westford.ccur.com (Hank Cohen) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov3.175303.4143@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>>representative as it should be. Allow me to a couple questions here: Recently,
>>the Supreme court agreed that the districts should be redrawn to reflect the
>>current population distribution. What has happened (if anything) to implement
>>this? Second, why do the opposition parties (SDP, JCP, etc) also oppose
>>redistricting when it comes up? It seems to me that they have the most to
>>gain, but they oppose it as strongly as the LDP.
>

[Mr Cohen's cogent summary of former Kaifu's plan to eliminate multi-seat
constituencies deleted for bandwidth's sake]

I understand that, but I don't recall the Kaifu plan actually eliminating
seats; rather, my impression was that there would more, smaller constituencies.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese Student killed in Louisiana
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:31:13 GMT

In article <Bx7J2A.JGL@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>In article <1d7ve8INNl4j@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>.....
>>  So, naive Japanese fellows, get accustomed to the street
>>level of life your country has so effectively isolated from mainstream life.
>>.22 caliber has the least backfire so is the easiest handgun to use.
>
>  Would a non-US citizen be able to purchase and own a gun legally in the US?
>Just curious.

Yes, if he/she had the proper ID (driver's license is most commonly required)
in areas where ID is required.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp (Daisaku Itasaka)
Subject: Major League vs All Japan (game 6&last)
Organization: NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd., Tokyo, Japan
Distribution: world 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:27:11 GMT

Game 6 (Saturday, at Tokyo Dome)

	                 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 hits
	All Japan     5  0 0 0 0 0 1 3 0 1   7 
	Major League  9  0 0 5 0 0 4 0 0 x   9

	Langston(W) - Patterson - Olson - Ward
	Makihara(L) - Kawaguchi - Shibata - Kawamoto
	homerun: Sierra(2), Walker(2), Takahashi


last game (Sunday, at Tokyo Dome)

	                 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 hits
	All Japan     3  0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2   8 
	Major League  4  2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 x  10

	McDowell(W) - Ward(Sv)
	Okabayashi(L) - Nakada - Nomo - Miyamoto - Watabane - Sasaki
	homerun: Griffey(2), Ishii


MVPs of the series)
	ML: Mark Grace(Chicago Cubs) batted .385 and hit 3 homers
	AJ: Nomura(Hiroshima Carp) batted .348 and stole 4 bases

At last, ML won 5 games and lost one in the 7-game series.(tied one)
And at last, Craig Biggio of the Houston Astros, the only member
of the ML team without a hit in the series entering the last game,
finally hit a single to left. I think he can return to the US safely.:-)

-- 
A wrong guy in a wrong place at wrong time...
						 Daisaku Itasaka
				      d-itasak@nmit.mt.nec.co.jp
				NEC Microcomputer Technology Ltd.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: Please give your opinions...
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:15:59 GMT

In article <10NOV199220284420@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
>In article <BxH0y1.CnK@ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes...
.....
>>   Then, you might want to learn that the Japanese language cannot
>>be measured by the standard of the English language. Whether you
>>think it sounds strange or not, "gaijin-san" does not sound weird to
>>us.
.....

>Perhaps, but I still do not like the "exclusive" element in the word
>gaijin.  I realize by strict definition, the word is neutral.  But in
>standard usage you can be gaijin in so many ways (be white/black/mixed
>blood, be raised in non-Japanese background or have mixed culture), that
>it can sound a bit xenophobic.

   I don't have anyting to say about your personal feeling against the
word "gaijin," but it is not the only word that can be used in many ways
with a possible taint of xenophobia. For example, "okyaku-san" is a 
neutral word meaning "guest." However, the same word in the phrase,
"okyaku-san atsukai suru" would imply exclusion.

   I believe that each word was created out of its necessity. The primary
function of the word is express some concept. If there is any other word
that could express exactily the same concept that "gaijin" can, that
might substitute. The only "exclusive" element that I can see in "gaijin"
is "gai" (soto, outside). Therefore, "gaikoku-jin" would sound
xenophobic to some people, too. Only when this world becomes a place where
there's no necessity to tell the difference between "uchi" and "soto",
"gaijin" will find a good reason to be abolished.

   If "gaijin" sounds more exclusive or xenophobic than "foreigner" or
"alien," that's more of a matter of culture than a meaning or usage of
a single word. Being more homogeneous society than most others, Japan
might be one of the most xenophobic country. It's my impression that
discussing this attitude would be more fundamental than how some 
word sounds under a certain circumstance.
 
>  But language does evolve and I hope gaijin
>will just mean non-Japanese by plain citizenship.  I know some Japanese
>who use the word that way.

   I believe that "gaijin" was originally used that way if it's derived
from "gaikoku-jin."

--Michiaki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: A Japanese student killed in Lousiana
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:41:06 GMT

In article <viking.720951201@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:

.....
>> However, if it turns out that you cannot use it appropriately,
>>and you still stick to your weapon, that could be an invasion of other
>>people's right.

>	Sorry, but this is a pre-emptive attack.  I remember a friend of mine
>raised in a Shinto temple in Japan.  His telling me an old Japanese legend:

[Sorry, but I deleted the legend which didn't seem to be a good analogy
nor so relevant. Maybe, this is another cultural gap...]

>  The Japanese
>and American cultures are entirely different; what you accept I abhor,
>and visa-versa.  The facts, however, speak for themselves.

   It might be true that "Don't do that because it invades someone else's
right" is more Japanese than American. If it's Japan-specific and none
of American, I'd be willing to retract this rationale in order not to
force a wrong culture at a wrong place.

   However, if your neighbors start to practice shooting in their
back yard and might miss the target and shoot into your back yard, wouldn't
you want them to stop it? Wouldn't you think that they should go to a
shooting range to take the education first?

   As I understand it, we cannot carry a weapon in the commercial airflight.
Despite the security system, it IS possible to have a hijacker in our
flight. We should have a right to be prepared to protect ourselves from
a possible hijacker, but they don't allow us to do it.
I wonder what their rationale to enforce this is.

.....
>>   Please consider the background of this incident before concluding that
>>it was the victim's fault.

>	Please consider that you have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable
>doubt in this country.  The grand jury has indicted the home-owner; it
>has not said he is guilty, only that a trial is deserved.

   I don't think I ever said or tried to say that the shooter is guilty.
I was just trying to protect the deceased from those who might or did blame
him making, "It is reasonable for him to have been killed if he made a mistake 
without knowing the American way"-type of comments.

Michiaki Masuda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,news.answers
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan

Interesting, but Phillip Dick did this kind of stuff already (unless
this is something from him!).  Is this part of a book you are reading,
or stuff you are writing, or what?

--arne
From: t_yamasi@hoffman.cc.sophia.ac.jp (Yamashiki Tsuyoshi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS MASSACRE 47 COLLEGE STUDENTS IN RO
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:53:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Center, Sophia Univ., Tokyo, Japan

Ok Stephen, you're the fourth person to be put to my kill file.
Stop that stupid sig.  Stop the sick joke.  Bye.
--
Tsuyoshi Yamashiki, lost boy in cyber space.
From: claude.hunter@nitelog.com (Claude Hunter) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: DJ's character issue(2)
Date: 4 Nov 92 19:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Nitelog BBS - Monterey, CA - 408-655-1096
Reply-To: claude.hunter@nitelog.com (Claude Hunter) 

SL>They found out very vividly that their own government could send the green
SL>berets to slaughter them. They found out that there was no mercy on them.

Do you really think that the South Korean government under Chun Du-hwan
order the the special forces unit to slaughter inocient Korean citizens.
I think that that is looking at the problem with very narrow "eyes."

Claude
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a
From: onishimu@nmt.edu (Osamu Nishimura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Japanese history textbooks wanted
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:48:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Nov11.124845.8592
Organization: New Mexico Tech


     JAPANESE HISTORY TEXTBOOKS WANTED

	I've started teaching Japanese here at New Mexico Tech in Socorro, 
	New Mexico, but I need some Japanese history textbooks at junior 
	high school and high school levels, written in Japanese.  Also, I 
	want some reference books with chronological tables.

	If you have any information, please inform me at :

			      osamu@minos.nmt.edu
				      or
			      Osamu Nishimura
			      New Mexico Tech., Box 3256
			      Socorro, NM 87801-3256
			      Phone : (505) 835-2093[home]
			              (505) 835-5388[office]

	Thank you,

	Osamu Nishimura
	(11/11/92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto)
Subject: Re: Phone
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:28:59 GMT

Code Blue?

 I wonder if i think of Japan and wear her in my liver, will a nice girl from
Japan tumble into this group and steal my heart away? (I need my liver.)

--
PGP 384/D7484F Stephen Kawamoto

a7657@mindlink.bc.ca.


UUENCODED on MIND LINK! Fri Oct 30 10:35:08 1992


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M```````````````````````````!)@``````````````````````````````
M``````````````````````````````````````````````````#E_\'PY?_!
M\.7_P?#E_\'PY?_!\.7_P?#$_\'/X/_!\,3_P<_@_\'PQ/_!Q\W_/]+_P?#$
M_\''S?\
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:10471 talk.politics.guns:23897
From: bam@bnr.ca (Bruce Matsugu 1629654)
Subject: Re: internment camps (books on the subject)
Organization: bnr
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 14:30:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.160952.28595@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
 [stuff deleted]
>	On the Canadian internment and virtual slavery as
>	farm workers for years _after_ WWII ended see
>	"Obasan", which has been translated into Japanese.
>	Despite its grim subject, it is almost poetic in
>	tone.  I forget the author right now.
>
>	- Michael Goldman
>
  I think the author is Joy Kogawa, who went through the
  Japanese-Canadian internment and its aftermath as a teen.
---
Bruce Matsugu   --- my submissions are my opinions; BNR and NT are innocent!
Bell Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
---
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: IS this
Date: 9 Nov 1992 21:26:17 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Where has this geek been?

In article <gate.89kVTB1w164w@cyberweb> GunBuste@cyberweb.UUCP writes:

  >So, anyone like the new pop group in Japan...they're
  >call "TUBE", their music is really nice....gotta
  >listen to them!!

Tube has been around for quite a while.  They're okay.  But Kome Kome
Club is still kick-butt-shite iru IMHO. I have yet to hear a better
song than "Roman Hikou."  Although J-Walk's "Nani mo Ienakute..Natsu"
is pretty good and K2C's recent hit, "Kimi ga iru dake de" is also
pretty good, and Hound Dog's "Bridge - Ano hashi o watarutoki" is so
good it almost makes me want to get drunk on Asahi Supa-dry!!! ;-)

References:

"Roman Hikou" - copyright 1987 by K2C Music Publishers
 Released on several albums Best one, IMHO, "Komeguny"

"Nani mo Ienakute..Natsu" -copyright 1991 by Terebi Asahi Music
Don't know which album...Help out there?

"Kimi ga iru dake de" - copyright 1992 by K2C Music Publishers
Available on album, "Octave."

"Bridge - Ano hashi o watarutoki" - copyright 1992 by Grandmother Music
from the album "Bridge - Ano Hashi o Watarutoki"  (Theme music for
recent Asahi Super Dry commercial .. young, handsome Nihonjin guy
workin' up a sweat, splashes water all over face...cut to scene with
tailors dressing him up for a party...cut to scene going down escalator
in expensive hotel...steals flowers out of vase...goes up outside clear
elevator overlooking city skyline...goes to party and gives flowers to
gaijin koibito.  Drinks Asahi super "Draaaaiiiii"  and winks into camera
with left eye.)

Of course, this short IMHO-ichiban-suki-na song list is for male
vocalists only.  Female vocalists would take too much bandwidth..:-).

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Please give your opinions...
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:13:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov13.011355.14547
Organization: clearer than blir

>In article <1992Nov12.004808.17045@u.washington.edu>, 
>tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:
> 
>=> In any case, Japanese people are going to lose this argument in the
>=> long run, because the minority always decides what it finds offensive
>=> and, out of sensitivity, the majority usually gives way and tries to
>=> accomodate the minority opinion so as to decrease tensions.

In article <7445@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>,
blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>
>Reasonable analysis, Tad. I think that within one language, your last
>point is true. But it is a little crazy when people try to enforce
>standards on another language. 

It may be more than a little crazy, but that's the direction things
are moving. I know you understood my position but just to make it
absolutely clear: I don't agree that Japanese should be forced to
change the way they speak (or told what they mean by what they say),
but rather I am merely trying to wet my finger and hold it up to see
which way the wind is blowing. And as far as I can see, more and more
gaijin are going to dislike being called "gaijin" and the word will
fall out of favor.

-- Tad Perry   Internet:    tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
               CompuServe:  70402,3020
               NIFTY-Serve: GBG01266
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:10467 talk.politics.guns:23892
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Japanese exchange student killed in Louisiana...
Date: 10 Nov 1992 21:57:05 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Paranoia alert one more time

Okay folks.  Enough of this gun bsuiness already.

Seems like we got two factions paranoid about crime in America.
One faction is paranoid that it going to happen to them so they support
packin' portable firepower.  The other group is paranoid that these
"packers'" are gonna blow them away any chance they get.
(Turn on facetiousness alert)

To the first group, I propose the concept of a societal contract:

  "If you are a gun owner and for whatever reason, accidentally blow
   away the wrong guy, society terminates your sorry ass.  No Ands, Ifs,
   or Buts...No excuses.  Nothing like, 'I thought he had a gun...duhhh'
   or, 'he looked dangerous to me...duhhh"

  "If you use a gun to commit a crime...again, society blows away your
   sorry ass, again."

  "If your kid gets a hold of your gun and accidentally blows somebody
   away, again, society wastes your sorry ass..."

To the second group:

   Like there's 250 Million people in America.  This Louisiana shooting
   was extremely 'mezurashii'.  I'd be more concerned about that car
   zooming up the street that's going to run over your sorry, unalert
   body than getting blown away...like live a little... take risks.

   Sore kara,  for all inexperienced, or naive, baka-jan persons coming
   to America, be aware that social Darwinism is alive and well in
   America and if you're survival instincts are poor, you'll pay the
   price.  No bozo's please...

Personally, I'm installing 1cm thick polycarbonate for windows on my
next house, plus metal detectors, cameras, independent house power, totally
cellular telecommunications systems, infra-red motion sensors w/ size
discrimination, auto locking doors w/ retina scan and voice recognition
security, and electric shock stun surfaces on all entrances and exits
w/ person recognition.  I think I'll throw in a laser karaoke system,
32" Sony trinitron and a Sparcstation 10 with that. :-)

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan