HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Probe / Mercury Capri / Ford Capri - Which?
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 23:30:08 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Oct5.090258.1@sdl.mdcbbs.com> richardk@sdl.mdcbbs.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.232255.18081@koko.csustan.edu>, james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy) writes:
  
>> There is no way any peice of junk Mazda/Ford collaboration is going to live
>> up to the German Ford Capri. This car is pure gusto. 

The Japanese can't build cars!!! No way, never could never will.  NOT!!!

Mazda make some very, very good cars.  The weak part of the Mazda/Ford 
partnership is probably Ford!.  Here the Ford Laser, a Mazda 323 re-badged,
has a _lower_ spec than the Mazda version.

>This is not entirly true! The 3.0 V6 version was superseeded long before '86
>with a much more powerful 2.8i version. This had uprated suspension and all
>those nasty trimmings you'd expect to see on a cheap car with a big engine (eg
>skirts, air dam, huge spoiler...). Yeah the German Capri was fast, but it
>handled like sh** and has developed a reputation that most car manufacturers
>cringe from. (Hence the doubts about renaming the Ford Probe the Ford Capri
>over here in Europe).

Well said.  It is interesting to note that the old european Ford Capri 
exhibited the worst aspects of rear wheel drive cars.  They fitted LSD's to
stop people losing it on roundabouts in the dry at 10 MPH (only a slight 
exaggeration).  My memory of the old Capri is those guys in the TV show 'the 
Professionals'  doing 180 turns at 5MPH.

The New Ford Capri is a Front Wheel drive and no attempt has been made to 
overcome torque steer, transmission shunt etc.  A fitting successor to the 
old Capri if ever there was one!


-- 
Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz --  Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:16:07 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In Article <51156 harling@miki.pictel.com> Dan Harling writes:

>>>	Think of a snowmobile scudding quickly over a ten-foot deep snowbank.
>>>	Then think of an M60 tank trying to plow through the same snowbank.
>>>	Extreme examples, same principal, if you catch my drift.

>That's fine, if you have skis on the front tires and treads on the
>back.  With typical snow tires, how do you propose to exert *any* force
>on the car if the wheels don't "dig in"?

	I don't understand the question.  How do tires exert *any* force
	on concrete if the wheels don't "dig in?"  Does this mean that
	cars cannot drive on concrete roads?

	Between the extremes of sinking into quicksand, and sliding
	along tractionless on glare ice, lies an infinite variety of degrees
	of traction.  It is very possible to drive on snowpack.  People do it
	along mountain roads, or did it on the Alaskan highway in pre-pavement
	days.  In fact, because of a good snowpack the Alaskan highway was
	easier to drive in winter than late spring, when the muskeg turned
	parts of the road into mud bogs.

	Dave

		Dave

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Big or Small,was FWD or RWD: Which is better?
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 21:27:00 GMT

In article 13402@texsun.Central.Sun.COM, dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>
>	Given that the 77 Toyota IS RWD, and given that both the Corolla
>	and the larger 60s vintage US car have kitty litter in the
>	trunk, I'd say that the extra half-ton of vehicle weight gives
>	the heavier car a better chance of sinking deeper.  And let's call
>	the "snowbank" snowpack rather than snowdrift.  Or let's call it
>	a snowdrift that has alternately thawed and frozen, forming a
>	crust over softer snow.  First car to break the crust bogs down.
>	Guess which car will break through first?

Since I want to get through snow drifts, give me a mid-'seventies Olds
Custom Cruiser with ten 1"-thick sheets of 4X8 plywood in the back. The car
must have Posi, and studded snow tires. Nobody would keep up with me. 

The essential question is: Do we want the car to sink or drift over the snow?
If you drift over, what friction is used to control the car? 

Ans: Nothing but the slippery glide-planes between compacted and recrystallized
     snow flakes represents the friction that is used in controlling the car.
     Based on this, we want the car's wheels to sink.

What happens when the wheels sink into snow anyway?

Ans: The wheels get down past the slippery glide-planes between recrystallized
     snow flakes.

What recrystallizes the flakes? 


Ans: Freeze and thaw or the following:
     The weight of the moving car on the contact patch between the tires
     and the snow produces heat which melts the snow during rubber/snow
     contact. This is hydroplaning on ice: really dangerous. The water
     produced by the melting freezes(recrystallizes.)

Why use snow tires with big treads?

Ans: The big treads force the snow into spaces between the treads, getting
     down below the snow, onto something more grippy. I prefer studs,even.
     Light little cars don't have the necessary weight to sink down, dis-
     place the snow and get to some surface (blacktop or gravel or concrete)
     that roads are made of. These little cars are the ones that wipe out
     in the white stuff more easily regardless of FWD or RWD than big, heavy machines 
     with blocks of concrete(or other suitable heavy stuff) in the trunk and RWD.
   
   Let's face it, you cannot change the laws of physics. Big cars by
their weight get more traction and better control on snow or ice than 
little cars by their lack of weight.
The debate is no longer about "FWD or RWD, Which is better?" For winter
driving: "Big or Small, Which is better."

Andy.



Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: Big or Small,was FWD or RWD: Which is better?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:55:01 GMT
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In article <13410@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>In article <Bvuvws.36p@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Khan writes:
>
>>All those in favor of making a solid foundation in basic physics a
>>prerequisite for access to the rec.autos.* hierarchy, raise their hands
>>and say "Aye!"
>
>>What you're saying is complete gibberish.
>
>And so, with a devastatingly precise reference to physical laws, delivered
>with rapier-like wit, is my argument crushed.  The law of phyics invoked in
>so doing is the law of "No-no."  And yet, in defiance of these laws, 
>and despite all protestations, lightweight cars do get about in the snow.
>Perhaps these Newtonian scofflaws, driving little cars where it is impossible 
>for them to go, should be ticketed by the Physics Police.  When the Physics
>Police, in their heavy cars, get bogged down in snow or mud, they can shoot
>out the tires of the Corollas receding in the distance.	

And how often in the winter do you see pigs stuck on the side of the road?
Can you say 'Never'?  There's a reason for that.  Big cars are better in
the snow because they have the weight to either push their tire-tread-blocks
through to pavement, or compress the snow hard enough to create tread-
block-shaped hardpack under the tires.  The key factor here is the amount
of weight on the drive wheels of the car.  Heavy RWDs have lots of weight
on all 4 tires, so they will usually have better traction than smaller
cars.  And the argument about big cars having more inertia to overcome is
bullshit, because the cars were built with great big engines to overcome
this inertia in the first place.  AWD small cars have alright traction
because they have the engine block over the drive wheels to provide weight
and therefore traction.  RWD small/light cars like mine SUCK in the snow
because they have NO weight over the drive wheels, and big tires make it
worse, because they cause the tires to float over the top of the snow.
Floating over the top of the snow is NOT desireable at all, since then
you have nothing substantial for the tread-blocks to grab...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

           "Laughed at by time, tricked by circumstances" -Peart
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RX7 Mailing list is AFU.
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:53:42 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA


   HEY, JEFF NAPPI!

   Your !@#$!@$!@#$ RX-7 mailing list is generating hundreds of 
   phony error messages to several members.  It keeps sending error
   messages from somebody's postings to every on on the list.

   Please !@#$!@#$!@#$ knock it off, OK?

   And you may want to ask your sysadmins why they don't respond to
   the postmaster@att.com email address as well.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: The Geo "family"
From: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp)
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:25:50 -0700
Reply-To: erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA
Organization: Alberta Research Council

In article <92280.103932WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>, <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>   The Geo Metro is essentially a Suzuki Swift
>The Geo Spectrum (no longer made) is essentially an Isuzu I-Mark
>The Geo Prizm is essentially a Toyota Corolla
>The Geo Storm is essentially an Isuzu Impulse
>The Geo Tracker is essentially a Suzuki Sidekick
>
>
And now there is Asuna which seems to have all these vehicles with different 
names?!?

Bob
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: toga@shell.portal.com (Lawrence H Brown)
Subject: Ford 1967 Mustang Convertable
Summary: $9000 asking, well maintained
Keywords: 289 engine, AC, Mustang, For Sale by Owner, Posted by friend
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/725-0561 (data)
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:57:11 GMT

1967 Ford Mustang Convertable

Turquoise Blue, White Roof, Powered Convertable Top
289 Engine, 3 speed manual shift, AC, Radio
155k miles, 60k on new engine. Soft Top is 2 years old.
Despite the mileage, this car has been well maintained
and is in excellent physical and mechanical order.

Asking $9000 or best offer.

PLEASE!  Call 408-246-1734 if you are interested in the car.
I have seen the car and can vouch for the owners desciption,
and I'll try and forward email messages, but the FASTEST way
to reach the owner is to CALL 408-246-1734 and ASK FOR DAN CARLOW

IF you must reply via email, use lbrown@cisco.com for fastest
response.  Use toga@cup.portal.com only if all else fails.


Xref: sparky rec.autos:23940 misc.consumers:17786 alt.activism:17453
From: 891078p@ace.acadiau.ca (Trevor Perkins)
Subject: Re: Canadian names for U.S. Cars
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:07:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.222501.23506@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik) writes:
>
>  Do you all remember the Beaumont? This was almost identical to the Chevelle.
>Canada only had Beaumonts and Chevelles. Don't think we had Malibus.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
    As a matter of fact, we did have Malibus

>
>  What about Pontiac Acadians? Chevettes with a pontiac label.
>
>  What's the difference between a Chrysler Dynasty and a Dodge Dynasty?
>Chrysler is a name that is more popular with Canadians than Dodge because
>Dodge makes working trucks, and Chrysler makes luxurious sedans.
>
>  You see, Often models with American names don't appeal to Canadians. Put
>a canadian name on it and it becomes familiar.
>
>  Why did W.P. Chrysler call Plymouth Plymouth? I think the story goes
>like this: Chrysler was going to produce a tough, no-nonsense low-cost car.
>His target market was in rural areas of your country. He wanted farmers
>to buy the car. Calling it a cow would be stupid. Calling it a horse
>would make it too spirited to be dependable(interesting how that spirited
>theme caught on for Ford in '64.) But naming it after the most popular
              ***  MUSTANG ***  Now there is a car ! 
                   '64(1/2) to '71  Those were the days !

>brand of hay-baling wire made the Farmers think subconsciously. Gee,
>Plymouth is tough baling wire...Plymouth must be a tough car. Result:
>
>MOST FARMERS BOUGHT PLYMOUTHS!!!!
>
  I could say something about this, but I think I will keep my mouth shut 
for a change :-)

>  It would appear that different names would cost more, but in reality
>they cost less because familiar names sell more cars.
>
>  Ever wonder why many Monte Carlos are owned and driven by Italians?
>
More protection in a crash because they drive like maniacs ?  :o)

>  Ever ask why country folk don't drive Civics?

                                  aka  "Bubble-mobile"
>
>  Would you buy something called,"KREMLIN CRUISER?"
>
>It's all in the name.
>
>Andy.
>
trevor
  =======================================================================
  |                 " Have You Driven A FORD Lately ! "                 |
  |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |   C. Trevor Perkins                       891078p@ace.acadiau.ca.   |
  |         Acadia University                                           |
  |            Wolfville, Nova Scotia    CANADA                         |
  |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |   " This is FORD country ...                                        |
  |               on a quiet night, you can hear a Chevy rust !! "      |
  |      ( previous owner & faithful follower of the Mustang )          |
  |                ( '69 Grande 302 - '79 Cobra 5.0L )                  |
  =======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: oil change question
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 23:08:06 GMT

In article 1bibv6INNh4d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:
>
>In a previous article, rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer) says:
>
>>@ (Nico Tranquilli) writes:
>>>The time between oil changes vary from car to car. 
>>>Why some cars need it after 7500 Km, others after 15.000 and so
>>>on ? 
>>>
>>>--nico.
>>
>>RTFM! All manufacturers require that oil be changed _more_ often than 
>>7500 miles _or_ kilometers, probably half of that in severe service. 
>>severe service also being defined in your friendly service manual.

7500 miles? That's almost 12000 Km! Bit of a long distance don't you
think? Is your oil always black and full of abrasive bits? I wouldn't
buy a used car if you owned it previously. I change my oil every 5000 Km
and it's always the color it was when installed: Golden. FYI 5000 Km is
roughly 3150 miles. This is a good oil change interval.

>>-- Dan
>>
>>Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
>>Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
>>UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
>>INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
>>
>
>I have a Nissan Sentra SER and Nissan suggests that the oil be changed
>every 7500miles or every 6 months.  I'd like to try out Mobil 1 and is it
>therefore safe to assume that my oil changes can now come every 15,000miles
>or once a year?

Automotive maintainance is crucial and can save you an expensive rebuild.
If you have not changed your oil in 7500 miles, do it now. Then change it
every 3000 miles. I have taken engines past the 200,000 mile mark by doing
this and have never needed a rebuild. My present car is six years old with
75000 miles, and I'll run that engine without a rebuild into the next
century.

Andreas.
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:03:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvrGqF.31s
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


In article <13393@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>
>>Even better winter cars! They took longer to rust away with the salt because
>>there was more car:=\ IMHO the best is to have a really heavy car on the white
>>stuff. I used to drive Monte Carlos before they got small and toylike.
>
>On the other hand, there's something to be said for small, light cars in the
>snow.  Best 2WD snow car I ever had was a 77 Corolla, when they were still RWD.
>It "floated" over the snow,

That sounds great, as long as you don't want to stop or make any
direction changes! ;-)

>without sinking in and having to plow through it,
>unlike my old 60s vintage chevies.

You seem to be equating "sinking in" with "bad handling in snow." This
is incorrect. As a general rule of thumb, the more weight you have over
your drive wheels, the better your traction will be. Compare the
traction of a semi to that of a Geo Metro. Why do you think people with
RWD cars put 100 lbs. of kitty litter in their trunks in the winter? So
they can sink in and get stuck in the snow? ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: top ten sellers of '92
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:24:53 GMT

In article <1at066INN3tr@gap.caltech.edu> hacker@cco.caltech.edu
(Jonathan Bruce Hacker) published a list of the best sellers.  When
gathering these statistics, do they consider identical (and similar)
``twins'' (``triplets'' in the case of Chrysler --oops no Chryslers in
here!-- and ``quadruples'', in the case of GM)?

>   2) Ford Taurus        347,534

Does that include the Mercury Sable too?

>   4) Ford Escort        244,231

Does that include the Mercury Tracer too?

>   5) Chevrolet Lumina   219,120

Does that include similar GM models?

>   7) Ford Tempo         213,352

Does that include the Mercury Topaz too?

>   8) Chevy Cavalier     212,675

Does that include the Buick/Oldsmobile/Pontiac too?

>   9) Toyota Corolla     206,560

Does that include the Geo Prizm? (similar, but not identical)

>   10) Pontiac Grand AM  198,596

Does that include other GM twins?


--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP
From: maurice@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Maurice Liang)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:22:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Deloreans
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.
Newsgroups: rec.autos

  In California, DeLoreans are advertised for the mid-teens ($15k) typically.
  I once looked into shipping a car to Germany, and it ran under $2k all told.

  -Maurice <Viperholic> Liang
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why not a Taurus SHO Wagon??
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:55:15 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <22030057@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com>, maurice@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Maurice 
Liang) writes:
>  I even went as far as investigating buying a SHO engine from a junkyard
>   to put in our Sable wagon, but I spoke with the Project Manager on the 
>   Taurus @ Ford, and he said it would be major surgery to convert the
>   Sable to take the SHO drivetrain.  Apparently, mounting points, radiator
>   supports, etc. have to be moved.  

Ford produced several Sable SHOs for Bob Bondurant I believe -- must not
have been too difficult. :-)


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: paulw@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Paul Welch)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:05:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Good/Bad Mazda Dealers?
Organization: HP Palo Alto Fabrication Center
Newsgroups: rec.autos

RE: Sunnyvale Mazda-

Never bought a car there, mostly because of overly aggresive salesman.

The parts department has been pretty good, but replacement parts are 
expensive.

PW

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tewheele@iastate.edu (Todd E Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Extoic sightings
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:11:51 GMT

In <1bm238INN88t@bigboote.WPI.EDU> damong@manyjars.WPI.EDU (Damon Francis Gentile) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.232659.25416@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>>In article 1bk6ikINN1s6@bigboote.WPI.EDU, beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:

>>>        6 . ) Caddilac Alante'

>>6) Italo-American Bullshit

>how do you get italian out of a cadialac ?



You get Italian out of a Cadilac because the Allante was designed by
Pinfarina(sp?) in Italy, and the cars are partly built there before shipping
to the USA for final assembly.  I think that the bodywork is done in Italy and
powertrains are done in the US.

This is correct to the best of my knowledege, don't flame me if some of this
is not perfect... I don't have my stack of Motor Trends, etc. here to back
this up... :-)

Todd
tewheele@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: amin@rsvl.unisys.com (Amin Kassem )
Subject: Re: newsgroup for 4x4 trucks?
Organization: Unisys - Roseville, MN
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 20:20:59 GMT

In article <1anslfINNrmv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes:
>
>   I would love to see a 4x4 newsgroup. I'm planning on picking up a Ranger
>4x4 or a Jeep in the near future and would like to read up on these vehicles.
>-- 

I am thinking about buying a new Grand Cherokee Jeep orsomething similar in 
that class of vehicles.  I would appreciate it if someone was kind enough
to tell me the address of the 4X4 and the Jeep mailing lists.
I would like to hear opinions (comparisons) on the Grand Cherokee, Path finder,
Explorer, Trooper, etc ...

I also would like to see the 4X4 news group be created.

-- 
=====================================+======================================
| Amin Kassem - Software Engineer    |      I would give up an arm         |
| UNISYS Corporation - R & D         |      to be ambidextrous !!!         |   
| System Software & Interface Group  |   My employer doesn't even know     |