From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revisited
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:13:15 GMT

In <BzoIGB.5yJ@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:

><bob1.725051279@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>><BzMI8D.L4H@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>>><bob1.724607266@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:

>>>>Don't get me wrong, I don't care whether two people get churched or
>>>>not, but there needs to be a commitment, a meeting of minds and
>>>>spirit, or what is different about it than two animals rutting in
>>>>a field?
>>
>>>To contrast your image of animals rutting: the person you're supporting
>>>suggested cunnilingus as a natural way to preserve a man's reproductive 
>>>rights -- is that the kind of "meeting of minds" you're looking for?
>>
>>Where in hell did you find this in my post? Shit, another Nyikos who
>>reads words in the white space!

>It's a suggestion Michal made a while back.  You were making your
>statements against liberal behavior in the context of her claim
>that men who don't know they are fathers are guilty of heinous sin,
>and shouldn't have their parental rights protected.

>Your romantic/conservative beliefs should be independent of what 
>the *law* says about when/if men have parental rights.  Your values
>aren't at issue.

Well, I guess I did not realize that by joining in a thread I had to
join one team or the other. Sorry, I'm used to thinking for myself
and being rather independent. As to my 'conservative' attitudes,
I suppose they might be, but I hope I've made it clear that I have
no desire to force them on others. By persuasion or by legislation.

Now, I guess I didn't read that into Michal's post regarding the
case (as you outlinedin a previous post) where the father is not
aware that he is a father. I suppose this comes under the legal
argument that ignorance is no defense, but I would hope that the
courts would use their alleged intelligence. But then I've always
been saddened that most of the time it is the letter of the law,
and not the spirit, that is followed.

Of course, the worst aspect of all of this is the massive distrust
of each other that I see in this group and others. As stated in 
another post somewhere else, all this pointing of fingers and
trying to fix blame for why things are the way they are is a
simple waste of time (maybe you kids have the time to waste, I don't.
Having recently achieved middle-age at 62, I figure I've only
another 62 to go). So when we fix the blame, what will we do? Send
the guilty to jail? Fine them? Take them out a dawn and shot them?

Why not expend all this energy and bandwidth on solutions? And not
on solutions that swing like a pendlum, i.e., for years women were
kept down so now lets do it to the men. Like it or not, its a
pretty darn small planet and we all have to live here. What we
needto figure out is how to do it fairly.

>Don
>-- 
>beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged

bob

No man is an island, but each is a piece of the main...
							T.S.Eliot
Xref: sparky soc.men:21835 soc.women:21930 alt.feminism:6582