HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: charless@sco.COM (AutoPope)
Subject: Re: SF Titles
Organization: The Somewhat Contagious Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 11:49:09 GMT


In article <1992Oct2.023709.1410@techbook.com> dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque,,,,) writes:
>[I apologize if you've seen this before; I've been having trouble
>posting because of a full disk.]
>
>cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman) writes:
>>
>>The best example I know of is Kuttner's "Clash By Night".  I read this
>>when I was a young teenager, and just enjoyed the story (Mercenaries on
>>Venus) without thinking too much about it.  Then I discovered where the
>>title came from:  the original quote was "... as on a darkling plane,
>>where ignorant armies clash by night."  This quote totally turned the
>>meaning of the story around for me.
>
>Another one from this line of poetry (which you fail to mention is from 
>Matthew Arnold's Dover Beach) is _On a Darkling Plain_ (isn't it spelled
>"plain" in the original line?) by Ben Bova.  I had read Dover Beach
>in high school and I seem to remember that that influenced my decision
>to read Bova's book.  So I guess the allusion worked one way or
>another.
>
>Now all we need to do is find a book titled _Ignorant Armies_ and the
>entire line will have been recycled.


"Ignorant Armies" -- ed. David Pringle, 1989. Pub. G.W.Books in
the UK. I don't think there's a US edition, but I might be wrong.

It's a shared-universe anthology spun off from the "Warhammer"
RPG; G.W. Books was a subsidiary of The Games Workshop. If you
can find a copy there's a [pseudonymous] story by me in it. But
I wouldn't bother -- the whole thing's crap.


-- 
Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
product of a warped mind. Take two before meals. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Yet More on Languages in SF&F
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:16:04 GMT

ML> == "Michael J. Lonski" <mike@micros.COM> 

 ML> I remember a short story in a collection, (Alan Dean Foster's "With
 ML> Friends Like These..."???), where a human gets into a conversation
 ML> with a group of aliens at a bar.  These aliens are technoligically
 ML> superior but mention being wary of humans because we use the same
 ML> possesive, (ex. my father, my car, my hand), for everything whereas
 ML> they differentiate between all of these cases.  To them, this makes
 ML> the human's reactions very unpredictable and therefore unsafe to
 ML> meddle with.

It's a Niven "Draco's Tavern" story; I believe it's reprinted in
_Limits_.  I don't remember the story title offhand, but it's definitely
about the chirpsithra.
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt)
Subject: Re: Dark Sun
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 00:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu writes:

>Anyone bothered with the "Dark Sun" series at all?  I have the first three
>books, and while they are "mind candy" (tm.), they are an entertaining read
>on an interesting idea.  Just wondering if any of y'all read them and have
>an opinion (and BTW, I *do* play the AD&D game of this, also...)

Yeah, I do like the _Dark Sun_ novels. TSR seems to have finally gotten
their act together -- they're now apparently capable of publishing more
than three good books in one year. :=) I like the way Denning portrays
the societies of Athas, and his characterization is very good. (_Much_
better than in _The Parched Sea_!) And I'm glad they've given the whole
series to one person, instead of having one person write each book (the
one problem with the Cloakmaster Cycle is that the characters change a
little from book to book).

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: std_wilson@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: BOOK SEARCH
Reply-To: std_wilson@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:50:15 GMT

	Quite a long time ago I read a book that dealt with two planets in  
the same system (or two systems that were very close).  One planet was
populated by humans and the other by some species of large ant-like
beings.  Both worlds were at similar tech levels and they hated each 
other.  One human then noticed that a large fleet was on the way to destroy
both these worlds - I do not remember how he claimed he knew this - it 
was, however, still a long way off.  The impending invasion forced the 
two planets to put aside their differences and unite against the common
enemy and thus they found they could be friends.  It was then revealed
that the reported invasion fleet was a hoax designed to force the two
planets to see that they could be friends.
	I do not remember this book as being especially good, in fact I 
recall thinking the whole concept was a bit unrealistic but it has always
bothered me to not remember the name and author of a book.  I am hoping
that someone can tell the name of the author and/or the book.
		thanks in advance.
				Bill
From: mfterman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:44:44 GMT
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Distribution: rec
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.

In article <1992Oct12.191759.16894@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>Roger Zelazny's JACK OF SHADOWS would make a great movie, and the
>AMBER series would also be an awesome choice.  Though there are so
>many of them, it would probably be better as a high-budget TV series.

I've always felt that Lord of Light could be a nice little TV series,
and there wouldn't be an insane level of special effects either. Of
course, it would probably annoy a lot of people with some of the digs
it takes at religion.

Now that Morphing special effects have come onto the silver screen,
Amber is finally doable. Actually, it would be the opposite of what
they did in Terminator II. Instead of morphing a character against a
fixed background, they'd morph the background while keeping the
character fixed.

-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mad Scientist, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: a random quote to brighten your day
Date: 8 Oct 1992 04:26:59 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: adder.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct7.181155.29980@hellgate.utah.edu> speterse%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty) writes:
>In article <1avnt9INN3ts@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>
>>'"Yes,  but - no - wait!" for Alyx sprung to her feet
>>and fetched from his stool the pillow on which he
>>had been sitting, the purpose of which he did not
>>at first seem to comprehend, but then his eyes went
>>wide with horror, for she had got the pillow in order
>>to smother him, and that is just what she did.'
>
>>Can anyone guess the author?
>
>Joanna Russ.

Give the man a cigar.  (A long, fat Havana.  Sometimes a cigar
_is_ just a cigar.)

How such an awkward sentence ever found its way into print
I shall decline to speculate; but perhaps it has something
to do with the fact that _Adventures of Alyx_ was published
by...


suspense...


Yes, the good folks who brought you Jerry Pournelle.  Baen Books.

c
From: neel@erich.triumf.ca (MCNEELY, PAUL)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: The Shadow Rising-(Spoilers)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 19:30 PDT
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

This is in reply to the latest post by John Hansen, I am afraid they just
swithched editors on the system and I am not familiar enough with the new one
to risk using it.  Spoilers follow





























One of his questions was on why Gaebril was probably Rahvin.  Well when
Moghedien was taunting Nyneave she says something to the effect that he has a
pretty little queen now--the only land ruled by a queen is andor.  On a related
topic I don't think Moghedien did anything more than break through the shield. 
When Rand entered the world of dreams(I'm to lazy to look the proper name up)
he channel to do so and she was shielded at the time.

Some one (I can't remember who) brought up a good point -- why didn't anyone
catch on to Morgase's message to Elayne?  Mat obviously told her about the
meeting since she mentions Gaebril when she was drunk; did he forget the
message?  Another thing I noticed was three times in the bbok Jordan uses the
wrong name for the person being refered to anyone catch anymore?

On the topic of Mat and the ter'angreal I don't think to much should be read
into what is said there.  It seems unlikely to me at any rate that those
creatures have the power to permanently destroy the male half of the one power
not to mention doing so would break the wheel of time anyway since it runs by
the constant opposition of sadair and sadin.  I also don't think Rand is going
to go insane -- from TGH we know that the madness can be controlled and I just
can't see it happening because I believe the creator means to win not just draw
this round of the fight.  As Moiraine is constantly reminding rand The
Profecies are obscure.  When looking back on them it is usually obvious what
they mean but from the other damn side of the equation they are not that clear.

The bit about Lord Luc makes sense; I don't have my copy of TGH so I can't
refer back to see what the message said about him.  How did you ever come up
with it though?

				Paul McNeely
				NEEL@erich.triumf.ca
From: milan.rezac@canrem.com ("milan rezac")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: tolkien ?
X-OLD-Message-ID: <1992Oct13.2760.1928@dosgate>
Date: 13 Oct 92 08:27:43 EST

KD>I believe the story went something like this:

KD>The Tolkien mailing list was started about a year before The Big
KD>Split. This drained the original rec.arts.sf.lovers of Tolkien-related
KD>postings, so when the split arrived, very few could see the need for a
KD>special tolkien group.

Aww, damn!  I can't subscribe to lists.  Guess I'll have to talk to my sysop
again...and again...and again....  Is it (either of them, actually)
interesting?

KD>Also in general people was opposed to special-groups like Heinlein or
KD>Tolkien.

Well, perhaps it could have been called Middle-earth.  After all, there's
enough stuff there to keep us occupied for decades to come!

Thanks for the info,

Milan
---
  DeLuxe 5.60 #7817  BBSi ye rima, nan sera indo-ninya smen, ullume
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: brehonyt@ul.ie
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Jack the Bodiless-Availibility in Britain/Ireland ?
Date: 9 Oct 92 10:58:02 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


There have been alot of posting about Julian May recently. I have 
a question for fellow fans.

Has her new book "Jack the Bodiless" been released in Britain ?.
I ask because we would get the British edition here.

If so when was it released ?. Thanks.

Tom Brehony.
Uni Limerick, Ireland.
Email : brehonyt@ul.ie

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Next Rama Book
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:47:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Oct6.203745.20297@stsci.edu> gallim@stsci.edu (Jack Gallimore) writes:
>
>In article <1asrq2INNqk0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
>|> In a previous article, dbrod@eng.clemson.edu (Douglas Brod) says:
>|> >Does anyone know when Arthur C. Clarke's next Rama book will be out?
>|> Never, if the ones before are any indication of it. So far as I can tell,
>|> all the Rama sequels were written by Gentry Lee, with Clarke's name tacked
>|> on. The writing style and plot is not at all like him.
>|> -- 
>|> +-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
>|> | Damien Neil | dpn2@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve University |
>|> +-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
>Smug comments aside, I think Clarke made mention of a fourth and 
>final book called "Rama Revealed" or some such in the intro to Rama II.
>Release date?  Who knows?
>=================================
>   Jack Gallimore, Astronomer
>        Academic Affairs
>Space Telescope Science Institute
>        gallim@stsci.edu
>=================================


In the end of the paperback version it mentions Rama Revealed and states
it's coming out in fall of '93.  (I don't have it with me, but I'm pretty
sure of the '93 part anyway :)

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: WHITE@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU (Avid Reader - Fledgling Writer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Saber and Shadow
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:08:53 GMT

novak@wri.com (John M. Novak) states:

>dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>"Saber and Shadow", by Stirling and Meier, is out.  As is typical of Baen,
>>it does *not* have a little warning along the lines of "a substantively
>>identical version of this book was published as The Sharpest Edge, back
>>when sales weren't as good."

>I was disappointed by this too, but I was expecting it ever since the
>re-issue of Snowbrother (again, with the warning missing...)

      In fact, John, Showbrother *does* have a warning.  Its in very
small print on the copyright page, but it is there.  Maybe S&S has a
similarly 'hidden' warning?

          Dafydd
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jprlarib@cs.ruu.nl (Jan Peter Laribij)
Subject: Re: julian may and Fury (*spoilers*)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:39:58 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

In <Bw6Fnu.9nB@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.105229.162@syma.sussex.ac.uk>, jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jason F Ralph) writes:
>|> Denis is a viable candidate for Fury, but I do have reservations about
>|> him. He has been close to Jack and I can't see that he could evade
>|> detection for so long. I think that I shall have to go back to the
>|> book... 
>|> 
>|> jasonr@central.sussex.ac.uk
>The main problem with Denis, as far as I'm concerned, is that he's too
>bloody obvious.  On the other hand, the fact that the Ghost was Marc
>was pretty obvious too, so that may not rule Denis out.

 There is one other problem: When MacGregors wife got killed Fury was at
Concillion (sp?? I've got only a Dutch translation) planet together with
Hydra, while Denis was still on Earth. At the first attempt to kill her Fury
said it would teach Hydra some things aboard the ship to this planet, implying
that Hydra and Fury are at the same place at that time.
 My guess is that Fury is Victor, transferred in the brain of Paul. MacGregor
is his great enemy, and Paul couldn't be checked out (like Marc) by the
Krondaku/Simbiari searchers.

--
Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass. A good bookshop is just a
genteel Black Hole that knows how to read. - Terry Pratchett
   "Help, I'm having space-time distortions in my room!"

Be Aware Of Rocket Blast - The Vanishing Point - Slammin' Sammy Miller

Look very carefully, I will show this only once! - 'Allo 'Allo

-- 
Jan Peter Laribij, Student Computer Science. E-mail : jprlarib@praxis.cs.ruu.nl
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: al@iris.claremont.edu (Aotearoa)
Subject: REVIEW:  _Last Call_ by Tim Powers
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:09:29 GMT

I know, there have been reviews of this here in the past, so I will keep
this short.  _Last Call_ is wicked fun, with the kind of plot that only
Powers and a select few others can make work.  The characters are
interesting and wildly eccentric, and the magic makes sense in the context
of the story.  Others have said that any Powers is a must read, and I have
found this to be true without exception thus far (yes, that includes _The
Stress Of Her Regard_).  I would have to rate _Last Call_ near the top of
Powers' work, and also among the most entertaining books I've read all year.
There is a definite horror element at work here, and it reminded me a bit
of Clive Barker's recent fantasy binges, which I also find entertaining.
-- 
Michael L. Medlin      al@iris.claremont.edu
"There's a man on the shoreline with a white parrakeet
 Trying to make his bird go home"
 --Peter Jefferies, "On An Unknown Beach"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: charless@sco.COM (Charlie Stross)
Subject: Re: Ian McDonald's _The Broken Land_: review
Organization: SCO Technical Waffle and Blurb Department
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:26:05 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.071434.1401@math.ucla.edu> dstein@amalthea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.081600.22174@sco.COM>, charless@sco.COM (AutoPope)
>writes:
>
>|> Why do so many sf readers have a hang-up about `story'? Ian's work
>|> is definitively _not_ about `story' -- it's about `experience'.
>|> There is more to fiction than who does what and why, dammit. If
>|> there wasn't, we'd all be reading newspapers instead. Before you
>|> can understand The Broken Lands (published in the UK as Hearts,
>|> Hands and Voices) you need to surrender to it. Like life itself,
>|> it's plotless but full of feeling. 
>
>   My comment referred to the short story "Fragments of an Analysis 
>   of a Case of Hysteria".  Have you read it?

No. 

Nor was I aware that you were talking about the short story.
Given that your posting was a follow-up on the subject of The 
Broken Lands, and that the story ``Fragments of an Analysis of
a Case of Hysteria'' was not mentioned in your posting (or at
least not with sufficient prominence to attract my attention),
I think this was a reasonable assumption to make ...

>   As to the supposed distinction of a "story" from "experience"
>   (are they not linked?), it is irrelevant.  My point was there
>   was no point in writing the story, and you are welcomed to
>   change my mind by addressing the story itself instead of giving
>   a sermon.

I don't know of the story therefore I will not comment.

>|>                                      Do you insist on hanging
>|> an artificial teleological construct on top of your sensory
>|> input in real life? 
>
>   You mean a dildo?  I'm sorry, my dictionary is not around.

Now you're flaming -- and your ignorance is showing.

>|>                      If not, why do you feel the need for an 
>|> explanation when you're reading a work of fiction?
>
>   I did not say I do.  I said I would be "delighted" if someone 
>   "tried" to explain the point of this particular short story.

Well, you seem to be taking a rather combative stance, so I think
I'll butt out of this one. Frankly, I can't be bothered to get
involved in a flame war; my ego is so bloated that I'm trying to 
restrict its diet right now, and there seems to be an unhealthy
quantity of adipose tissue surrounding your pretensions ...

> - David
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
>Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
>================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===

Cordially,

-- 
Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
product of a warped mind. Take two before meals.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: ex
From: rwilley@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Hrothgar)
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:51:28 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Unfortunately, I don't have my copy of "Jack the Bodiless" handy, so most of
this is from memory.

In the quest to dertmine who or what Fury is exactly, there is one possibility
that seems to have been overlooked.  Much as Hydra is a multi-individual
entity, it is entirely possible that Fury is some kind of disembodied spirit
which is able to manifest itself through various members of the Remillard
family.  Victor was locked away within his own mind for decades.  He
undoubtedly went (evan more) insane, however, I don't think it is too great
a streach of logic that he might have been able to develop his own mental
powers during this time.  Note that when Dennsi goes to the final prayer
vigil, he meets with Victor alone, and it states that he "listens" with
all his mental shields and defenses down.  Its my guess that Victor/Fury
subverted Dennis at this time.  Then, as members of the family entered into the
MetaConcert, Fury/Dennis established linkages which allowed itself to
manifest through any of the Remillards who took part in that Metaconcert.
(I believe that the individuals who took part were brought one by one into
the concert, which would allow each to be subverted in turn).

Thus, Fury is not actually one of currently living Remillards.  Instead,
Fury is something like a Lylmik which must manifest itself through one
of the Remillards to have any ability to interact with the world arround it.
I would explain the "inevitably I am born quote" as Victo/Fury finally being
able to subvert the Remillards during the metaconcert, as he had been planning
to do for some time.

I think that this hypothesis would explain most of the discrepancies in the
"fury record", including the advanced lie detector tests, and apparantly
inconsistant people being present during different manifestations.

				richard
From: xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dragonlance
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:35:58 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

jng53092@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Gad) writes:

>bidelen@cs.few.eur.nl (Otto Delen) writes:

>>I've just finished the Legends trilogy (Dragonlance), and I was
>>wandering does anybody know if there is an order in those books. 
>>Which trilogy should I read first, the Cronicles, Preludes, Preludes II, 
>>Legends, Heroes etc..

>Easy.  First you read Chronicles, then you read Legends, and then you stop.
>IMHO, just about everything after Legends is crap.  Worse, its SILLY crap 
>that just dilutes the quality of the earlier novels.  Granted, I haven't read
>ALL of the Dragonlance books out there, but the few I DID read  after Legends
>and Chronicles were pretty much crap.  There are a couple of moderate to good
>short stories in some of the collections, and some of my friends SWEAR that 
>one or two of the others aren't so bad, but for the most part I stand by my
>analysis: crap.

Actually, I thought that all of the first _Heroes_ series was pretty
darn good -- especially _Legend of Huma_. I haven't read the _Heroes
II_ books, but two of them are sequels to, respectively, _Weasel's
Luck_ (which was fun -- not as heavy as the others) and _Legend of
Huma_; I'm not sure if that means they're likely to be good or 
they're likely to be bad.

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written