HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "Democracy" & "Israel" are Axonyms.
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:31:07 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <Apr.9.22.22.29.1992.3790@paul.rutgers.edu>, marwan@paul.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:
} 
} The sceen was about two brothers from Nablus (Nablus==Jabal El-Nar==the
} mountain of fire) running with fear from 7-8 Israeli soldiers who finally
} captured them ... The reporter was probably hiding on an adjacent hill, so
} the sceen looked like taken from a distance ... One of the soldiers looked
} all around him to see that there is nobody seeing him (the stupid did not
} see the reporter and the camera) and after that the 5 DEVILS started their
} evil business ... 2 of the Devils held the arab teenager, one pressed him
} firmly to the ground and the other twisted the boy's arm and extended his
} elbow behind his back ... Another Devil looked around him and found a huge
} rock on the ground, he picked it up, and then with all his force, he lifted
} it high up and slamed it to the poor guys hand ... For those pro-Israelis,
} I want to say that the devil hit the boy on his Elbow ... GOD ... THE
} ELBOW ... I sware to god that I felt that stone on my elbow as I was 
} watching the scene ... The scene was so unpleasent to watch that I could
} not bear to continue to see it ... I jumped and went streight to my room.
} 
} But as I got there, I was woundering, what kind of hate do the Israelis have
} and how can a human being be so crewl? ... Pro-Israelis ... Please elaborate.
} I realy want to know how much would an average Israeli hate Arabs.


	I don't know the average Israeli, but I can't recall even the
	extreme Israelies describing Arabs as DEVILS. I think that the
	language you use is revealing. And you have the guts to ask
	about Israelis' hate?

	The actions of the Israeli soldiers you just described are deplorable,
	regardless of the brothers preceding actions (which you forgot to
	mention). But if maliciously hitting one's elbow makes someone a 
	devil (and makes Marwan sick) how would you call your fellow 
	Palestinians who have executed hundreds of their brotherns in ways 
	such as chopping their organs one by one? Is your dictionary reach 
	enough? And how do you feel about it? Please elaborate....




} Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 


Noam
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: The Great Silence (semi-condensed version)
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:47:11 GMT

In article <14579@vela.acs.oakland.edu> rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey) writes:


>Oh yes, quick question, twice you referred to Jake Livni as "Ilan" and me as 
>"Jake", was this a mistake or a joke aimed at my accidentally mixing you and Antoun up.

Guys, leave me out of this, please.  Thanx.

-- 
Jake Livni
jake@bony1.bony.com
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric)
Subject: Re: Give TPM back to those who want to talk about the Mideast
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:04:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.033306.26725@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.203807.27039@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@sparkplug (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>>
>>	Excuse me if this was offered before, I have been away from
>>TPM for a while.  What about getting moderators on this group???  It
>>is done in other groups usch as sci.virtual-worlds soc.religion.islam
>>(i think i counted about 135 such groups at our site).
>>
>>	So what will it be???  ya know that opening a alt.revisionists
>>wont get the slimeballs outta here... I am not talking bout taking
>>someon's freedom of speach (*** forbid) away, I mean even grabage like
>>ARF's belongs here (well sometimes, I mean when th subject is not
>>Secret Rabbi Taxes (Kosher foods) etc).
>>
>>
>
>I personally don't find ARF's postings garbage at all.  On
>the contrary, I find them often quite informative and
>reasonable.  Just because you don't agree with someone
>doesn't justify censorship.

Calling ARF's postings "informative and reasonable" is like saying David
Duke is struggling only for overall equality.

Both are ridiculous and untrue.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Hey, Ralph Winston!
Organization: Bradley University
Date:  5 Apr 92 17:39:08 GMT

(or Jack Scmidling, or ARF, or whatever you call yourself today)

Are you happy yet?

Chicago Tribune Letters to the Editor, Sunday 4-5-92

Anti-Israel:   2
Pro-Israel:    1

Zionist-controlled media, right?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: naftaly@supergas.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer)
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Reply-To: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:36:59 GMT


In article <1992Apr6.174315.25246@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>But when the establishment itself actively pursues a policy of
>physically eliminating its opponents, as the Israeli government is
>doing, it is to all intents and purposes impossible to find any proof.
        ================================================================
>The politicians, the police, the army and Shin Bet close ranks to make
>sure that the evidence is not available.
>
[DELETED]
>
>As for the counterallegations that those who have been murdered were
>themselves killers, responsible for the deaths of the 462 Palestinians
>shot for alleged collaboration with the Israelis, it is tantamount to an
>admission that the squads exist. But that is not the important point.
>The fact is that these intifada activists were alive when they were
>captured. If there have been summary executions, as it appears almost
                                                 =======================
>certain, it proves the lie that Israeli society is one based on justice
=========
>and human rights.
>

Brad, 

In the first paragraph you say that there is no proof, yet in the second one you
say that it is almost certain. Make up you mind, will you.

It is the same as if I'll say that in the case of the lat murder in your city,
there was no proof that you are the killer because you made sure that the
evidance are not available, but it appears almost certain that you are the killer
and it proves that you lie when you said that you are not a murderer.

--

Naftaly Stramer (303)530-0441, FAX (303)581-0106    DAZIX, An Intergraph Company
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  6285 Lookout Road    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            Boulder, CO 80301
Please excuse my English
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz)
Subject: On the subject of JERUSALEM
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:52:42 GMT

In article <dfs.702939778@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>In <1992Apr10.140151.16047@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
>Hernlem) writes:
>
>>I was under the impression that the city of Jerusalem was to be an
>>international city under the U.N. partition plan. As soon as they had
>>the opportunity, Israel seized as much of the city as they could get.
>
>Of course.  But so did the Arabs.  I didn't see them making their chunk
>of Jerusalem into an "international" city - did you?
>
>The discussion is academic anyway, since all of Jerusalem is de facto
>part of Israel, and no Israeli politicial will ever suggest giving it
>up.  Neither will the overwhelming majority of Israelis or Jews.
>

	And we are so close to Passover (Pesach), the Hagada says:

	"Im Eschachech Yerushalim Tishachach Yemini" 
	(If I forget you Jerusalem, I will loose my right hand)

	and.....

	"Beshana-Habaa, beYerushalim Ha M E U CH E D E T".......

	(Next year in UNIFIED Jerusalem. This phrase used to be
	 Next year in Jerusalem.... until 1967)

	Now, do people truly think that Jerusalm will change under
	ANY Israeli law?.......

--Rafy
-- 
________________________________________________________________________
		       __        _    
  =_   __   ___    =  /  )      / )   ==========   diaz@sigi.sps.mot.com
 =  ) /_ )     )  =  /--<  _  -/-     == oakhill!sigi!diaz@cs.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: ARAFAT ALIVE-PLO BLAMES MOSSAD?!?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:49:11 GMT

In article <57328@cup.portal.com> Paktor@cup.portal.com (David L Paktor) writes:
>
>In Message: <1992Apr8.142507.16215@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> 
>      friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)   writes:
>
>>   As reported this morning, PLO Chairman Yassir Arafat was found alive.
>>   
>>   At first report of Arafat's plane disappearing, the PLO 
>>   (Pitiful Lack of Organization) accused the Mossad of
>>   orchestrating his assasination.
>>   
>>   Now that Arafat has been found alive, the PLO is now claims
>>   that the Mossad never had anything to do with it.
>>   
>>   Come on guys, you're slipping.  Is it the Mossad or not?

ARAFAT's leading of the PLO  is actually a blessing for the mossad.  I 
don't think the'd kill him.   In fact probably the Mossad helped
find him.   If that is not true, why didn't they kill him when he
was evicted twice from Beirut and Tripoli ports?


>
>From the title of this thread, I thought the PLO was blaming
>    the Mossad for Arafat still being alive.
>
>From the history of the PLO, I was ready to believe it, too...
>
>David
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  === Mister Systems ===    |  And pray that there's intelligent life
>      David L Paktor        |  Somewhere out in space,
>                            |  Cause there's bugger-all here on Earth!
>  Paktor@cup.Portal.com     |     -- Monty Python, The Meaning of Life
>                            |
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above represents my opinion, and is irrelevant to that of my employer
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10999 talk.politics.soviet:3471 soc.culture.greek:3378 soc.culture.german:3112
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel Accused Of Gunning Down Activists
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:31:24 GMT
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department

In article <1992Apr6.140734.17861@ncsu.edu> hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>In article <cubsfan.702336098@camelot>, cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu
>(Michael Silverman) writes:
>> In <1992Apr3.163711.3172@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
>Hernlem) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> >PALESTINIANS ACCUSE ISRAEL OF GUNNING DOWN ACTIVISTS
>> 
>> >OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, Fri. (UPI)
>>  ^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> The UPI news wires do not include this word. This is something called
>> "editorializing" and UPI does not do that. Brad, its fine that you report
>> these news items, but do you have to embellish them, and not only that,
>> but make your additions indistinguishable from the original text of the
>> UPI story.
>
>I don't get these stories from the "wires". This is exactly the way the
>story appeared in the newspaper. If I change anything or leave something
>out I somehow make a note of that fact but I usually present news
>postings exactly as I read them.

... in the Saudi Gazette, where they've been pre-editorialized for you.

'nuff said.

-- 
Jake Livni
jake@bony1.bony.com
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sepehr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ramin S.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Mojahedin Attacks
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:13:55 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Apr15.185352.14449@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>Don't these people have any relatives in Iran? How can they excuse this
>kind of behaviour? How does beating ambassadors and representatives and
>destroying records and property further their goals?

I totally agree ... Those who did it accomplished nothing but ruining
their own reputaition ... 

r.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: How to post an article from the news media.
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:01:19 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.164308.11653@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>TROOPS KILL THREE IN WEST BANK

>OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, March 29 (Agencies) 

 [43 lines deleted]

>[Arab News, March 30, 1992]

This is was article written by Arab News reporters, based on data from
Agencies.  It would be more honest to quote it as being from the Arab
News, based on wire service reports.  no news wire calls Jerusalem
Occupied Jerusalem.

An order of magnatude worse is Ralph Winstons postings from "The Daily
Northwestern" ads.  It is a decietful use of a tag line, please stop
doing it.

Adam

Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Give TPM back to those who want to talk about the Mideast
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:19:51 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


In article <1992Apr15.183032.13601@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu 
(Ridha Souissi) writes:


>I think that the above issues [revisionism, Jewish media control, etc.]
>do have pertinence to tpm.
>Most Israeli are Jewish, and Israel is in the Middle East,
>isn't it (unless you think it's in Europe).  Also I share
>the view that the Jews control a substential share of the
>media in this country.  the media helps shaping the views
>of people and policies of the Government towards Israel.
>That returns us to the Middle East. If you think I am
>an idiot, it is your opinion.  I will not call you the
>same, but I do keep my views for the moment, even if you
>don't agree.


Some People Just Don't Get It!!

NOT ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT ISRAEL ARE JEWISH 
(Dan Quayle who spoke at the AIPAC convention last week, or H. Ross Perot who received 
an award from Shaarey Zedek Hospital in Israel for his efforts, or Bill Clinton who has 
repeatedly shown his support for Israel).

LIKEWISE NOT ALL JEWS SUPPORT ISRAEL 
(Norton Mezvinski, a self-hating Jew who teaches History at Central Connecticut State 
University and espouses the destruction of the State of Israel (NOTE: his uncle is 
Rabbi Menachem Porush, the PRO-Israel Orthodox Rabbi in Israel), or some Ultra-Orthodox 
Jews in (and outside of) Israel, who burn Israeli flags in celebrations during Israel 
Independence Day).


Holocaust revisionism and other anti-Jewish has no relevance talk.politics.mideast!!!

Moreover, if anyone cares to try to prove the REVISIONISM <==> TPM connection,
DO IT ON ALT.REVISIONISM WHERE YOU BELONG!!!!

Give TPM Back TO Those Who Want To Talk About The Mideast

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Michigan State University
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid To Israel?????
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:55:56 GMT

Yeah, yeah, Brad Hernlem already posted it.  Do you think if you say it
twice that more people will believe it?

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jars@milton.u.washington.edu (Juan Rodriguez-Sero)
Subject: Re: "Democracy" & "Israel" are Axonyms.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:50:51 GMT

In article <2815@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>                      what other ways does the Israeli government function
>in view of democracy?  Why doesn't it have a constitution if it is a
>'democracy'?

A constitution is NOT a necessary condition for a democracy; just think
of the United Kingdom, the oldest democracy in continued existence. It
doesn't have a constitution either; considering that the state of Israel
is a successor to a British mandate, that coincidence is not so sur-
prising.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: King David Hotel bombing
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 18:18:29 GMT


When was the last time Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad made a phone call
to warn anyone before they destroyed anything?  The only calls they
make are to the media, to take "credit" for their sick activities,
AFTER they have spread their death!
From: souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:18:40 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr15.232537.27270@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.195927.15326@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>>
>>Do you compare stones with bullets?  How many Israeli policemen
>>died from stones and how many Palestinian youth were killed
>>by life amunition? Compare the numbers.
>
>Do you compare photographs with aggravated assault? To what extent
>did the person being photographes suffer physical attack from the
>camera, and to what extent did the students suffer physical attack
>in return? Please take your double standard home.
>

Do you compare a couple of punches to a couple of bullets?
Certainly the Palestinian youth who are being killed would
rather be punched than have their lifes taken.

If you return to the original article, it says at the end
that the two Jewish men didn't sustain injuries.  Their
camera did.

>	-Nora
>
>-- 
>Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Palestinian Self-Determination (was RE: How to post....)
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:10:16 GMT

In article <kubj7hINN84k@male.EBay.Sun.COM>,
peewee@playhouse.EBay.Sun.COM (Philip H. Stromer) writes:
> 
> 	Brad Hernia writes:
> 	I was under the impression that the city of Jerusalem was to be
> 	an international city under the U.N. partition plan. As soon as
> 	they had the opportunity, Israel seized as much of the city as
> 	they could get.  Have we forgotten that Israel seized a very
> 	large chunk of what was to be the "Arab" portion of the U.N.
> 	partition?
> 
> Brad, you stupid, stupid, assholy SOB.  You're completely ignoring
> the fact that the Arabs ATTACKED Israel three separate times, not
> even waiting for the State of Israel to live for ONE DAY in peace.
> They attacked her, six-on-one, the same day that she declared her
> independence.
> 
> Jordan never seized Judea in 1948, nooooo.
> Egypt never seized Gaza in 1948, nooooo.
> 
> The 1948 partition plan was unworkable.  The Arabs proved it.  Now
> they (and you) want to go back the 1948 borders.
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

Mr. Stromer, I don't think I ever said this. The problem is that the
natives of Palestine were never given the option of deciding for
themselves how they should be governed; the partition plan was imposed
on them by outside people making decisions for them. I am not sure that
a two state solution is best but I AM SURE that the Palestinians should
be given a voice about how they wish to be governed. (as an aside, has
anyone wondered why the PLO represents Palestinian interests at the U.N.
but the PLO is excluded from peace talks with Israel? Why are the
Palestinians not even given the right to choose their representatives?)

> Israel should
> give back NOTHING, never, unless she loses in war.  Israel welcomes
> the challenge from you and your relatives.
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^

My relatives are all of German, French, and Polish decent. Do you
envision a war between Europe and Israel?

>  We'll squash you like
> grapes, then expand Israel all the way to the Euphrates.  Sound
>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^ 
>good?

My Wife's relatives are all Iranian. You'd better conquer more
territory, Emperor Peewee, if you expect to make any difference to them. 

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Give TPM back to those who want to talk about the Mideast
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:16:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr15.201634.19738
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Apr15.185215.14074@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.170432.12305@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.033306.26725@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr14.203807.27039@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@sparkplug (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>>>>
>>>>	Excuse me if this was offered before, I have been away from
>>>>TPM for a while.  What about getting moderators on this group???  It
>>>>is done in other groups usch as sci.virtual-worlds soc.religion.islam
>>>>(i think i counted about 135 such groups at our site).
>>>>
>>>>	So what will it be???  ya know that opening a alt.revisionists
>>>>wont get the slimeballs outta here... I am not talking bout taking
>>>>someon's freedom of speach (*** forbid) away, I mean even grabage like
>>>>ARF's belongs here (well sometimes, I mean when th subject is not
>>>>Secret Rabbi Taxes (Kosher foods) etc).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I personally don't find ARF's postings garbage at all.  On
>>>the contrary, I find them often quite informative and
>>>reasonable.  Just because you don't agree with someone
>>>doesn't justify censorship.
>>
>>Calling ARF's postings "informative and reasonable" is like saying David
>>Duke is struggling only for overall equality.
>>
>>Both are ridiculous and untrue.
>>
>
>How about your postings, are they informative, reasonable and
>unbiased? are you just and equal in your writings?  My answer
>>  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Well, I certainly try to be informative and reasonable.  Admittedly,
though, no one can be unbiased.  Also, everyone is certainly free to
state his/her views no matter how different they are.  That having been
said, however, you miss the point.  I was objecting directly to your
characterization of ARF's postings as "informative and reasonable", a
characterization which is anything but factual.  His attempts for
"reasonability" often deliberately take those who comment on his
postings out of context and for a meaning very different from their
intent.  Also, many of the things he posts are genuinely anti-semitic.
Is this the kind of thing you are referring to when you call ARF's
postings "informative and reasonable"?

Please elaborate.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder