HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: njale@dhhalden.no (NJAL EIDE)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:45:22 GMT

In article <1945@lysator.liu.se> marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans) writes:
>keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>
>>Once you realize that portability and not size and speed optimization
>>is the emphasis, you will see why no one really bothers to write
>>demos anymore.  Again, what is the use writing such a thing (other
>>than to practice your machine code on a single machine) when it will
>>be useless in but a few years?
>>Basically, the reason that there aren't many demos being written (here
>>at least) is the same reason why fewer people are bothering to learn
>>machine code.  I knew the machine language for my Commodore 64, but
>>I never bothered to learn it on my Amiga 3000.  I just didn't see any
>>point.  For most if not all of the things I am doing, C is quite
>>fast enough.  I also realize, writing in C, that my program will be
>>useful for years to come, no matter what machine I happen to own at the
>>time.
>
>Just writing programs in C doesn't make them portable to newer
>machines. C programmers can do the very same mistakes as assembler
>programmers. The only difference in portability between C and assembler is
>that C programs sometimes can be ported to a machine with a different
>processor, but since we're talking Amiga, that's off subject.
>
Sorry, but you are wrong. Pure C programs are much more portable. You will 
at worst have to recompile with a newer compiler (if your old compiler 
generates code that doesn't follow Commodores programming guidelines.) 
Anyway your source-code would still be the same.

As for porting C programs to other machines, that is a breeze if your not 
going to use any GUI-specific features (just re-compile). Otherwise you 
would have to rewrite quite a bit, but it's still far less work than re-
writing the hole program in assembly.



Njaal Eide -ODH Halden
Xref: sparky alt.sys.amiga.demos:1613 comp.sys.amiga.applications:8636 comp.sys.amiga.introduction:1510 comp.sys.amiga.marketplace:8878 comp.sys.amiga.misc:16814 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29097
From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.introduction,comp.sys.amiga.marketplace,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 14 Nov 92 20:51:18 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

In article <OAHVENLA.92Nov14170014@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> oahvenla@snakemail.hut.fi (Osma Ahvenlampi) writes:
>In article <1dv7qeINNsi8@ub.d.umn.edu> rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes:
>
>>AMOS is also a good alternative.  It allows you to do very impressive
>>things very simply. such as graphics, animation, and sound.  While some
>>people call this "a game making language" (and although it excells at
>>that), it is actually an extention of BASIC.  It utilizes all the
>[...]
>
>AMOS is not an alternative to anything. It is impossible to do a completely
>system compliant program in AMOS, which is essential for any serious language.
>Whether you _want_ to do system compliant code or not, is your choice, but the
>language MUST support it. Even the simplest programs, which anyone would do
>system compliant (because using the system is the easiest way), can't be done
>right on AMOS.

What do you mean by 'not system compliant'?  In AMOS, you have access to
all the libraries, AmigaDOS, system requesters (and they even show up on
the AMOS screen, so you don't have to do any annoying screen switching),
and more.  On the AMOS disks is a HD install program written in AMOS (you
can look at the code if you want too, as an example for any programs you
might want to write).  AMOS IS DEFINITELY AN ALTERNATIVE LANGUAGE. 
Again, I'm NOT saying "AMOS is the best language ever wittten and blows
everything away" etc.  It does have downfalls (as does ***** EVERY *****
language).  Many C (and other language) programmers like to use AMOS
because it is SIMPLE to do VERY COMPLEX THINGS.  Again, I am only a user
of AMOS for two months, and there are many other, more experienced
programmers in the language that can add to my testimony.

	Thanks
	Robert Fentiman

UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu
At: University of Minnesota, Duluth
From: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:36:38 GMT
Reply-To: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Hey man, if you could pay my ticket there, I definitly would be!
(In Rochester NY..)... Hell... Even gas, so I could drive there...

					-Garion...
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 05 Nov 92 15:58:25 PST

In article <MKNIP.92Nov5110420@silver-surfer.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>Copper plasma and starfields are really easy to do. Try to get somebody
>who is more experienced than you to explain how they work, and then
>try to do the routines yourself. The hard way is always the best way
>in the beginning.

I am just interested in the ALGORHYTHMS in how to do stuff like starfields
and plasma, etc... Mind you I'm on a PC, and things are a little harder
to do without blitter. I wish there was a comp.sys.demo.coders newsgroup
or something -- the algorhythms are always going to be the same no matter
what 'puter you're on, from C64 to iPSC/860 (I've got access to both BTW).

agrier@gompers.gompers.edu (real internet addy)
tfinn@crash.cts.com (UUCP address)

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: olavka@ifi.uio.no (Olav Lur}s Kalgraf)
Subject: Re: LAST TIME!!! PLEASE RESPOND!  (Hardwired demo)
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:58:25 GMT
Originator: olavka@sognsvann.ifi.uio.no


In article <1992Nov5.124827.8971@mercury.unt.edu>, west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
> 

> 
> 
> 
> IDEAS??  Anyone get this to work?  And what are some *AWESOME* demos I can
> get to run on my computer?  SOME must work on an A3000.
> 

How about getting Spreadpoints Cube-O-Matic? It's really fab on my A4000
and I know it look's almost as good on an A3000 :)


	-=Olav Kalgraf=-

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: manne@lysator.liu.se (Manne Landeholm)
Subject: Re: Anarchy's 3dDemo doesn't work!
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:10:49 GMT

MSAASTAMOINE@finabo.abo.fi (Mika Saastamoinen Tkkk) writes:

>I've got an A500/2.5M/2.04/PAL. I tried running the demo in this configuration
>-Crash!- then I started lobotomizing my machine: I switched to 1.3 (I've got
>a rom-switch) and -Crash!-. Finally I disabled the extra memory (another
>switch :) and -Crash!-. I even tried unarchiving the demo on 2 new disks just
>in case the 1st 2 were damaged or something: -Crash!-. Everytime the demo 
>crashed at exactly the same place. Has this happened to anyone else? 

The demo crashed at exactically the same point for me, must be a release-bug.
I formatted the disks. :-(
And yes, I agree. The first part was _GREAT_.
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:43:47 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:

>Quoted from <1dj1sqINNetk@gap.caltech.edu> by keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider):

>> >The Amiga has probably the best downward-compatibility of any computer...
>> 
>> That's because so little has changed... besides, somehow I doubt that
>> the demos (which emply many hardware tricks) will work so well on the
>> A4000.  Many of them won't even run on my 3000...

>    Er, you're talking about _upward_ compatibility.

Well, as you can see I was responding to some other guy...  I knew what
he meant.  Or did I?  It would be silly to expect programs written on
the new machines to work on the older ones, bu tolder programs sometimes
work on the new machines.  That point is that the more little hardware
tricks you employ in writing your demos, the less likely they will be
to work on a different machine.

>> No, I'm just saying that most people are not programming in machine
>> code any longer, due to the popularity and versatility of the Unix
>> machines.

>    Most people around here who program in C aren't doing it because
>    of the popularity and versatility of the Unix machines. In fact,
>    I think Unix sucks (well, it doesn't suck, it's just creaky) for
>    many kinds of program development, unless you also happen to have
>    access to a lot of tools, and I'm a C programmer (Unix, MS-DOS,
>    Amiga).

Well, the tools are what make the high level languages useful.  Of course,
there is nothing stopping you from having many machine language tools and
libraries.

>> be made.  OF course, if you write in a high level language, you can port
>> your program no matter what happens to the hardware (with a few
>> modifications).

>    And your program is less amazing. In the case of demos, there is
>    no need to care about portability, so why bother? As long as you
>    accept that, the rest of this argument about high level language
>    programming is just wasted air, because assembler will always be
>    necessary on the target platform for quality results. If you're
>    willing to give up quality because of the portability myth,
>    well...

Have you ever seen the "Quicktime" things for the Mac (and others)?
I'd call some of them pretty amazing.  They aren't quite as optimized
as the Amiga machine code demos, but they will run on almost any platform.
Pretty amazing to me.

keith
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Subject: Re: Has anyone gotten the lemmings-2 demo to wor
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:19:44 GMT

In article 24954@teetot.acusd.edu, gs@teetot.acusd.edu (Greg Simon) writes:
>The header says it all--
>
>It guru's under 2.04, 1.3 (!) and all memory conditions!
>
>HELP!
>
>Greg
>gs@teetot.acusd.edu
>

it worked for me under 2.0 with one meg (half fast/half chip)

had to turn off my 1meg supra-ram before it would work... but it never guru's on me...



Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley)
Subject: Re: Movie demos
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:19:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.213459.1282@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> clueless@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons) writes:
>Are there any demos out there which simulate what computers do in movies? 
>You know, like in Patriot Games, when they're in CIA HQ in Langley, when the
>computer sitting behind Jack is busily putting text and graphs and maps on
>the screen, generally looking busy and impressive, but in all probability
>doing nothing?
>

There is a great blan}er for MS-DOS machines (actually a module for
After Dark) that puts graphs and even little configurable non-sense captions
and units of measure.  So you end up with somthing like:

"Tallied goat beard count at Microsoft (Kg/sec)"

Followed by a great green-on black line graph.  SOmeone must do this
for the Amiga (as a commodity, of course!).


-- 
@@@@@#())()(___)()(__)(_)()(_)(_(_)()(_)_(()_@)#)(*$()*)(#$)(*(*)(*$#@)(*)(*$#$#( pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu   Disclaimer: "Hey, I said this, not anyone else" ^% Border by: Randumb Border Industries.                                        $&^*&^(&&(@#&^(&
(^)*)(())&*&*)#*)@!*&)*&))*&@!#)*&*&)@#!%%(^&$@!^*)&*#@&))&*#)*&@
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 06 Nov 92 16:19:07 PST

In article <MKNIP.92Nov6113247@blob.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>Yes, I agree with you. A comp.sys.demo.coders newsgroup would be nice.
>Are there others who would like a newsgroup for demo-programming?
>As for the plasma-routine, I don't think it would be very easy to do
>on a PC since it's made mainly using the Amigas' COPPER. But as I don't
>know very much about Intel-assembler or GFX-cards I really can't say.

	hmm... what exactly is copper? I'm aware that blitter is kind
of a background memory -> video data mover of some sort, but that's about
all I know.

	Well plasma on the IBM is currently done via palette cycling...
pretty fast and relatively easy to do (you've just got to do your code
right!)

	Would someone kindly define what exactly copper and blitter plus
any other amy specifics are?

agrier@gompers.gompers.edu (real internet addy)
tfinn@crash.cts.com (UUCP address)

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: njale@dhhalden.no (NJAL EIDE)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 07:16:02 GMT

In article <MKNIP.92Nov11143513@superman.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>From: mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip)
>Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
>Date: 11 Nov 92 14:35:13
>>   even C... I don't wanna have to sit down and figure it out myself...
>>   I'll hack through the code to find out what it does, and then
>>   go through and write my own version... And if ya wanna be REALLY
>
>Hmmm. With that attitude you`re never going to be a good coder.
>Hard work and tears is the only way, so get on with that assy yourself!
> 
>--
>
> *=-------------------------------------------------------=*=----------------=*
> *          E-Mail:   mknip@niksula.cs.hut.fi              *                  *
> *   Helsinki University of Technology /                   *                  *
> *                      department of Computer Science     *                  *
> *=-------------------------------------------------------=*=----------------=*
> 

What is the point with every single programmer re-inventing the wheel ? If 
nobody could take advantage of others expiriences the world would never go 
forward. It would be very prosperous if everybody had to figure out quick-
sort etc. for themselves, or ???


Njaal Eide
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: jbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Justin W. Brown)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:42:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.101357.23836@lth.se> d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson) writes:
>
>In Europe (or Germany?) last year Commodore was the second best selling
>company, they sold 12.4% of all computers. According to a scientific
>report in Sweden almost half of all kids at an age of 10-12 where able
>to use an Amiga at home.

Ahhh, but you forget... Americans in general, as a rule, do not make
sense :).  (don't flame me... remember, *I'M* one of 'em :).

-Maruku of Megawatts
jbrown@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: njale@dhhalden.no (NJAL EIDE)
Subject: Re: Hardwired - once more!
Summary: How to get it 
Keywords: Hardwired, Silents
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:25:03 GMT

>In article <1992Nov7.113639.8686@cc.tut.fi> l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero) writes:
>>From: l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero)
>>Subject: Hardwired - once more!
>>Summary: How to get it 
>>Keywords: Hardwired, Silents
>>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 11:36:39 GMT
>>
>>
>>	Hello fellow demo freaks out there on the net!
>>
>>
>>  I've just got some trouble with this wonderful piece of demo code. I finally
>>made it to work on my machine ( B2000 1.3 , 1Mb Chip , 2Mb Fast , Supra's
>>Wordsync controller + 105Mb Quantum ) by turning off everything except the 
>>motherboard installed Chip-ram. However, my problems aren't over since my 
>>HW disk 2 is corrupted - it crashes soon after the vector spacecraft has 
>>appeared. I've heard some other guys have had this problem too. So I decided
>>to download a new version of the demo. I tried the one in wuarchive.wustl.edu,
>>but oh shit, oh shit... 
>>  The .dms'ed file 'Hardwired-disk2' was over 740,000 bytes long so it didn't
>>fit on a DD MS-DOS floppy. I access the net via the shitty pc's of the 
>>university and move the downloaded files to my Amy on the DD floppies by 
>>using DosToDos. That's my only chance, since I don't have a modem or the 
>>ability to read HD-floppies.
>>  So how the heck can I split up that file and get it on the only  correct
>>format? Any ideas? God, I hate these stupid ms-dos machines! Screw 'em!
>>  Also, something more to complain about. Does anybody know the programmers
>>of Kefrens? I hope they get this: Kefrens, you are the shittiest coders I've
>>seen this far! None of many, many, many products carrying your name hasn't
>>work on my machine - no matter how much I degrade it. And I've only got a
>>68000-based B2000. Can't figure why it's so hard for some guys to write
>>WORKING code.
>>
>>			        Tero Lehtonen, l115130@cc.tut.fi

You could uucode the file and split it with an editor. Then use Amiga's join 
command to splice them, and uudecode it back. Or you can LHA the dms-
file. That will compress it just enough to fit a clone-disk. Apparently lha 
has a slighlty better compressing-algorith than dms.


Njaal
From: s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Pumpkin Power)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: x-specs demos?
Date: 9 Nov 1992 01:00:42 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>Well, 7thOctober is another one of those great demos that (to the best
>of my knowledge) never made it to the ftp sites.  D'ya think you could
>stick that one on amiga.physik? :)  Some other nice individual seems
>to be busy placing demos there.

Most of these demos that get brought up from time to time WERE on FTP sites -
about 2.5 years ago when the demo was current.  As soon as we can find a
site with infinite hard disk so they don't delete the old stuff we'll be
laughing :)  I already uploaded the above demo twice in the past...

Pumpkin Power : s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au


--
From: obbe@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Obbe Vermey)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: THE SHEPHERD; gods game demo on the net.
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:03:58 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology


  Hello Amigoids,

For the last one-and-a-half year I've been busy writing
a new gods-game for the amiga. I decided to put a demo
version of this game (which is called 'the Shepherd') on
the net.

You can find it at :

nic.funet.fi            128.214.6.100       pub/amiga/games
amiga.physik.unizh.ch   130.60.80.80        amiga/game/jump

                                           as Shepherd.lha

It's 100% machine code 390k long and I'd like to know what
you think of it. Furthermore I'm still looking for a publish-
er so if you know someone . . .
I'll be happy to answer short questions on the coding of the
game.

					Bye, Obbe.

Obbe@ph.tn.tudelft.nl
Holland.
From: slmt9@cc.usu.edu (Joshua Dinerstein)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Writing a StarField. Which method is best?
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:49:10 GMT
Organization: Utah State University


	Ok with all of this talk about Demo Coding and such I have decided to
write my second demo. 

	In this one I would like to add a star field. But I got to thinking
about it and I am not sure what method is the best/fastest. Is it fastest to
try to use and reuse Sprites to put the stars up. Or is just simple drawing the
best?

	Any help or algorithms for this would be great.

	Joshua

-- 
**************************************************************
*                     *                                      *
*  Joshua Dinerstein  *  Nothing matters and what if it did? *
*  SLMT9@cc.usu.edu   *            - Who Knows!!!            *
*                     *              Anyone?? Anyone??       *
**************************************************************

If it's a raincoat why does it have to be dry cleaned?
        - Some Guy on some comody show
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: clueless@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Re: x-specs demos?
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:05:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
X-Posted-From: cs1.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Boy Wonder (bubblz@ecst.csuchico.edu) wrote:
: Well, I can tell you where I got mine.  My roomates went to a 3-D Porno movie
: here in Chico, California, and the theatre was giving them out.  So, if you
: want to spend alot of $$$ to get a piece of cardboard and plastic, come on 
: down to Chico and watch a 3D Porno!!!  (Gives new meaning to the phrase
: "Cumming at you") :-)
Unfortunately, X-Specs are not just pieces of plastic and cardboard.  They
are goggles that fit over your eye, and have lcd shutters for each eye. 
The shutters oscillate between transparent and opaque 30 times a second, and
while the left one is opaque, the right is transparent... So all the software
has to do is alternate images 30 times/sec and provide the right images and
you'll see stuff in full color, flickery 3d.

That's how it works in NTSC land, I'm assuming it would be every 25th of 
a second over in PAL.

: -Jason
: 
: Pay no attention to this text, it's just because the new mail server won't
: post any messages that are shorter than the original text. 
Imagine the world's smallest violin playing the world's shortest sad song
for you... =)

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: jbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Justin W. Brown)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:44:13 GMT

In article <1dj1sqINNetk@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>
>That's because so little has changed... besides, somehow I doubt that
>the demos (which emply many hardware tricks) will work so well on the
>A4000.  Many of them won't even run on my 3000...

Heheh!  Remember, demos are that special case where you literally need
100% downward-compatibility... Which is why I personally can't justify
the purchase of anything other than the A500 (or A1200 once that becomes
popular enough) unless you already have one.

>dream up and create those things.  They are very impressive.  However,
>the knowledge is very specialized and is thus limited.  As soon as the
>particular platform is out-of-date, you have to learn so much new stuff.

Not so.  The process of learning how to do this & that can be useful
in the form of generic learning skills.  For example... I've become pretty
adept at ProTracker.  Someone asked me to port a MED mod to PT format
(because MED always makes a corrupt file when he saves as PT-MOD), so
I had to quickly learn everything about MED (everything that counted :).
After getting used to the labyrinth interface a little, it was a snap.
If I had never used PT before, I would simply have said "forget it!" :)

-Maruku of Megawatts
jbrown@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu (E-mail that address, not THIS one)
From: gunnbr@nextwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu. (Brian R Gunn)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Has anyone gotten the lemmings-2 demo to work?
Date: 10 Nov 1992 18:02:36 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: l130b12.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Nov9.164539.24954@teetot.acusd.edu> gs@teetot.acusd.edu (Greg  
Simon) writes:
> The header says it all--
> 
> It guru's under 2.04, 1.3 (!) and all memory conditions!

I've got a 500 with 2.04, 1 meg chip, 4 megs fast, and the demo works just  
fine.

Brian
From: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: good ol' 64 demos
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:40:07 GMT
Reply-To: jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Simplest Answer: Find someone patient enough to u/l the
stuff to their computer, compress it, u/l it to the 
net somewhere (or even mail it to you, via UUcode...)...
I would if I could, but I don't have my old 64 up here..
					-Garion...