HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DTAUB1@ITHACA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: bio
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:26:00 GMT
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Hi,
My name is Debbie Taub and I just signed onto Deaf-l.  I just wanted to
send you my bio:
Name:  Debbie Taub
Occupation:  full time student, part time gymnastics coach
Age:  20
Hearing Status:  hearing
I am currently taking an ASL class at my school, Ithaca College, but I
knew a bit of sign language before.  I haven't had any real contact with
deaf culture before.  I began my college career as a Speech Pathology major,
but I didn't want to work in a clinic and that is the main focus at IC.  My
present major is Anthropology.
I would love to write more about myself, but I'm afraid if I get started you'll
never shut me up.  So, if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them and
   if not, I look forward to the discussions t









hat are going on.
One quick note, I'm just figuring out how to use this computer, so if I send
mail to the wrong place, sorry.
:) Debbie
From: derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink)
Subject: Handicap Digest?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:01:56 GMT

 Excuse me... Handicap Digest?

 I, for one, do *NOT* consider my deafness as an handicap.

 I just can't hear, but that doesn't stop me from using the Relay...
 Just a few modifications, like TDD, wirtten communciation,m interpreters,

 Is *THAT* handicapped? I think not.

- Scott

-- 

Scott Allen Steinbrink
 
NetCom: Derich@netcom.com
CompuServe: 76106.2055@CompuServe.Com 
America Online: Derichman
Bitnet: 11sstein%gallua.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu 
InterCon: tissue@intercon.com 

All opinions and remarks are not my responsbility - it's my own
mind's full responsbility. I just speak what it commands me to say. 

"Deaf people can do anything except hear" - I. King Jordan
From: askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:55:38 GMT
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              13 Oct 92 16:51:28 -0400. <9210132120.AA05697@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Can u remind me what the reply was to be  about?

Adam
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:49:28 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      John Tracy Clinic

Omer --

>  Let's make the distinction among wishing that your offspring be
>  so-and-so and FORCING him/her to be so-and-so even if you see it would
>  harm his/her life.

     Fine with me.
     Of all the parents who chose the oral route for their deaf children,
what percentage of them do you think did so with the expectation
(whether valid or unfounded) that it would harm their children's lives?
     What basis do you have for that figure?
     Do you have firsthand knowledge of a single such instance?

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM (Vicki Brown)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: handicaps?
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:31:14 GMT
Reply-To: vlb@apple.com
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I wrote:
>deafness could be considered a hindrance (a "handicap") in certain
>situations...
>But hearing can be considered a hindrance (handicap) in [certain] cases...
>So a "handicap" is all in how you look at it.  Context is very important.

At least one person (:-) understood this to mean that I was comparing or
equating handicaps; I did not mean to do so.  Lew tells me he would have been
much happier if I had included a sentence or phrase to the effect that,
overall, the "handicaps" of hearing are nowhere near as critical and frequent
and permanent as the handicaps of deafness".  As I never intended to equate
handicaps, it never occurred to me that this would be necessary.  However,
for anyone else who misinterpreted my post, I have no disagreement with Lew's
statement.

There are degrees of handicap; there are different forms of disability.
Some handicaps are more obvious, or occur more frequently in a person's life
than the lack of handicap might.  Some people may never be in a situation where
they don't feel handicapped.  Some may never consider themselves handicapped at
all.  As Esther pointed out, personal perspective can play a large role.  To
use the words Lew used, "There are handicaps, and there are handicaps."

However, I still believe that a handicap depends on the situation.  Thus, a
deaf person is not "handicapped" in the absolute sense.  He is "handicapped by"
his inability to hear certain sounds; if, in a given situation, he does not
need to hear those sounds to get by at an optimum level, he is not presently
suffering a handicap.  IMHO.

Vicki Brown
A/UX Development Group       Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
Internet: vlb@apple.com	     AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:38:00 -0700
From:         MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: hello - bio

Re: the political situation in New Zealand & the United States...

I can understand Barry's feelings towards his government in New Zealand.
Alot of people here in US believe that politics is a very dirty business
But I personally think it is a dirty business, where there are alot of scams
in the branches of government...There was a scam in Congress about the
Banking.  There was a scam in Rocky Flats (located in west of Denver, Colorado)
   this branch of government which was the executive branch.
But, as a deaf person, I'm not going to let my deafness get in the way when
I go into politics.

I am a student at University of Colorado at Boulder, and I am majoring in
Political Science and Pre-Law.  I suggest that you, Barry, move to USA to test
your political rights, I think u will be more satisfied here.

michelle
From: vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM (Vicki Brown)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: RE: recommendation (East coast) *USA*
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:18:23 GMT
Reply-To: vlb@apple.com
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To all those not in US or Canada, I apologize for my geocentric error in
not qualifying *which* East Coast. :-}

List members in Canada -may- find parts of NY state accessible...

Vicki Brown
A/UX Development Group       Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
Internet: vlb@apple.com	     AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:00:55 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      handicaps

Vicki --

>  Under no circumstances did I mean, or intend anyone to think I meant, to
>  compare, or equate "handicaps".  Context is everything; by taking my
>  comments out of context and attempting to generalize, you change them
>  and make them meaningless.

     Let's reread what you originally wrote:

>  So deafness could be considered a hindrance (a "handicap") in certain
> situations, such as viewing movies without subtitles or using the
> telephone, or ordering at the drive-through at McDonalds, etc.

>  But hearing can be considered a hindrance (handicap) in cases such as a
> noisy bar, working with loud machinery, trying to understand what the
> person on the bus is saying through the window, etc.

> A very clear example came up last night...

     I stand by my statement -- which was based on the context with which
you prefaced your example.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
From: DTAUB1@ITHACA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: BIO
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:37:00 GMT
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Hi Mark!!!  Glad that you've joined.  Good luck with your classes!!
-Debbie Taub (Ithaca College)
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:29:41 EDT
From:         "Cathy Brandt" <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)
              5 Oct 1992 20:46:32 EST from <91babik@GW.WMICH.EDU>

And here is the teacher with a story on the light side -

I am here working late tonight.  (Just check the header)  Didn't have time to
go home for supper.  So about an hour or so ago I put a bagel in the toaster
oven in the teacher's lounge -   Yeah, you can guess what happened -  I forgot
it!  I remembered it when I read Lisamarie's post about her oven!

Guess it is a good thing I decided to read the posts to Deaf-L before going
home.  Had I not -  Well, the headlines could have read  "Careless teacher
burns down school with bagel!"

Oh, I need to go home!


BTW - ( may I brag or something? )  A parent was in for a meeting today and she
told me that it is obvious to all in the family and to close friends that the
two most important people in her child's life are his mom and Miss Brandt!!!!
(Even though he tells everyone I give him tooo much work.  Can you guess who,
Lew?)

Now ask me again why I am a teacher.

Cathy - teacher of children who are worked too hard but must not mind too much.
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:07:00 +1300
From:         IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Subject:      Re: hello - bio

Subj:	RE: Handicap Digest?
Michelle Muth says:-
MM>How can being able to talk on the phone, using the TTY being a handicap?

MM>Leaders conference in Washington, D.C.  I was the Miss Indian Colorado two
MM>years ago.  I am very active in clubs, College Democrats, Oyate(Native
 American
MM>Club), and Deaf club.   Is that a handicap?  What I am trying to say is that,
MM>I have done anything a hearing person could do...
MM>michelle

If a deaf person wants a relay service or something, I see it as a way of
playing fair on the "level playing field" (a very common phrase in the NZ
economy these days).

Alas, our car manufacturers in NZ are still producing *TOO
EXPENSIVE* new cars (tariffs, custom duty, etc). (NZ$30,000 for one new car -
that's US$16,200). And car tyres are too expensive (I got a retread for
NZ$72.50 = US$39.15  - NZ$1=US$0.54). No wonder 2nd hand Japanese cars are
selling like hot cakes here. The Govt has just slapped a $1,000-2,000
(US$540-1080) tariff on 2nd hand cars from Japan - boo boo! Except that the
playing field for deaf people is still a lot steeper than the NZ economy's
playing field!

Barry Kirkland,
IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Full-Name: Tilak Ratnanather
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:40:59 EDT
From:         "(Tilak Ratnanather)" <tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: hello - bio

Hi Barry

Though I am from Britain, I would like to welcome a second
All Black fan to DEAF-L. If deaf people were as dedicated
as any All Black rugby player they would be better off!

Regards

Tilak

Tilak Ratnanather	Internet: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Dept of Otolaryngology -- Head & Neck Surgery    || Phone 410 955 3877
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine  || Fax   410 955 1299
Traylor Research Bldg 522, 720 Rutland Avenue    || Fax   410 955 0549
Baltimore MD 21205-2196				 ||
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X-VMS-Cc: HOFFMAN
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:37:00 EDT
From:         HOFFMAN@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Handicap Digest?

Scott Allen Steinbrink says (in his sig line):

>>>>>>"Deaf people can do anything except hear" - I. King Jordan

The exact quote is "...deaf people can do anything that hearing people
can do...except hear."  While it is true that I. King Jordan said this
during the Gallaudet DPN (Deaf President Now) protest, the phrase
originated with Frederick C. Schreiber in a speech he delivered in 1972.

Both deaf and hearing people feel that Frederick C. Schreiber is that
epitome of the deaf hero.  He made innumerable contributions to the Deaf
world in terms of the rights and opportunities of Deaf people.  However,
he was also the champion of cooperation between the Deaf and hearing
communities, a mentor of members of both groups, facilitating understanding
between the two.  He fought tirelessly for appropriate education for deaf
children, advocating Total Communication at a time when it was not widely
accepted.  He worked diligently to draw Deaf people into establishment of
and membership in organizations of, by and for the deaf.  As the first
full time, paid Executive Secretary (later retitled Executive Director)
of the NAD (National Association of the Deaf), he instituted many changes
in the way that organization functioned, making it bigger, stronger and
far more effective than it had been before he took over its administration.

Surely Fred should be properly credited with coining this now famous phrase,
but that should take nothing away from I. King Jordan who is becoming a
folk hero in his own right.

Cheryl M. Hoffman
(HOFFMAN@ITHACA)
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:12:00 +1300
From:         IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Subject:      Re: Handicap Digest

RE: HANDICAP

Lew Golan says:-
LG> Either this means that a deaf person can be:
LG>     a TDD relay operator
LG>     a music critic

LG>     ...or it's hype.

It's a bit of hype, really, but see, an important point is that
deafness(/hearing) is a social condition on which people's status in society is
evaluated. This means that if deafness wasn't such a big factor in the public
and non-deaf's perception of deaf people's abilities, then people in general
are more ready to accept that deaf people can achieve a lot.

By the way, the context of the TDD relay operator and music critic can change
very much. If the telecommunications system was better suited to deaf people's
needs then the idea of a relay operator would be more conceivable. E.g. what if
a hearing person needed actions signed very quickly by videophone through fibre
optics to reduce toll costs, rather than a lot of long words, he could have it
transmitted by a relay operator at the speed of light (!)

Vicky Brown says:-
VB>  So deafness could be considered a hindrance (a "handicap") in certain
VB> situations, such as viewing movies without subtitles or using the
VB> telephone, or ordering at the drive-through at McDonalds, etc.

I would like to simply say that the effects of deafness are only handicaps
because the sense of hearing exists. By the same token, hearing is only known
because the lack of hearing also exists, i.e. something exists because of the
absence of the same thing.

Seth Gordon's words support what I just said:-
SG>Within Deaf culture, deafness is not a disability.  But since oral
SG>communication skills are important within mainstream culture, within
SG>mainstream culture, deafness *is* a disability.

Why don't we use WHO (World Health Organisation)'s definitions of disability,
handicap and the absence bit? Except, these words have different meanings to
different people. My mum wrote a report about students with disabilities at
Otago University in 1990. The report contains WHO's definitions.

I am thinking of a rephrased question about 20-30% lipreading success. I will
send a message about that in the next few days.

I must go home now. You all have a nice day.

Barry Kirkland, B.Sc.

PS: Bachelor of Science is abbreviated as B.Sc.
From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: handicap
Date: 10 Oct 1992 15:37:06 GMT
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: marina.scl.cwru.edu
X-Post-Machine: marina.scl.cwru.edu

Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET> writes:
>Vicki --
>
>     You compared a hearing person's "handicap" in being unable to lipread
>something he wasn't even supposed to in the first place, and which would
>have brought him no benefit at all (it was, after all, a lesson in signing)
>with a deaf person's core handicap in being unable to get (and perhaps
>convey) vital information in a myriad of situations day in and day out
>throughout his lifetime.
>     If you were sitting next to a permanently wheelchair-bound person and
>your leg fell asleep, would you say to him, in all seriousness, "I'm
>handicapped, too, since I can't walk, either"?

	Deaf people are permanently DISABLED. (i.e. - UNABLE to do something
like hear) Whether it is a HANDICAP or not depends on the situation.

	Let's reverse the first example - Suppose that hearing person
worked for an all-deaf company. Suppose they almost always used sign.
Until he can become extremely proficient, he is as handicapped and in
as serious a way as the deaf person in an all-hearing company.
	And if a fire started in the building where the wheelchair-bound
and leg-asleep men are, BOTH of them are going to have one damn time 
sprinting down stairs. But the wheelchair guy will have much more speed
on the straightaways....:) 

	There is a real distinction between DISABLED and HANDICAPPED.
Unfortunately, handicapped is the word used most when disability is
meant. 
--
	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:38:40 EDT
From:         "Cathy Brandt" <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Biography
              6 Oct 1992 15:06:27 EDT from <markhunt@ZEN.CAC.STRATUS.COM>

Welcome to Deaf-L, Mark!

I am a teacher of the hearing impaired/deaf in the public school.  I'd be
curious to know how you and other hearing kids responded to the deaf kids in
your school.  What were the  general thoughts regarding the deaf kids in the
school?  Did they make many friends, stay much to themselves, participate in
school activities etc.

This list is full of diversity!  It gives one a more rounded picture.  So, sit
back and get ready to be educated!  I have been!

Cathy - teacher of children who persisted and today guessed the item in the
Mystery Bag - it was a filmstrip!  Lew, guess who guessed it!
From: pj_pycro@csd.uwe.ac.uk (PJ Pycroft)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:28:17 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU wrote:
: I'm surprised those gas thingees dont come with more warning labels...
: 
: Lets hope this doesnt happen TOO often..
: 
: As an undergraduate in Mechanical Egrg, I can give my two bits worth on gas
: stoves:
: 1) If the top stove isnt lighting, to light it, FIRST light the match, then turn
: on the stove...
: 2) When you're done cooking, make a visual check on the dials!
: 
: 
: Adam

How about a developing a gas warning detector (or a even bigger siren)
when gas is hissssssssing and the pilot light is not lit???? (assume
that the detector would be placed in the stove!!)

Paul

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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:48:48 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Intervention

Even though my parents had a successful intervention in my case when they
discovered I was deaf at age 2, I wonder what the usual intervention is for
parents today.  What do you do when you find out that your child is deaf?
Consult your family pediatrician?  Call your state association of the deaf?
Call Alexander Graham Bell Assn.?  Call John Tracy Clinic?  What I would
like to see is a good "balance" (though it might be impossible) in all sorts
of advice, and I'm talking about a relatively unsophisticated set of parents,
without funds and money to spend on 'experts' and the like?  Is there some
sort of hierarchy for a new parent to go through?  I'd rather refer a new
parent to this 'organizational' road map than spout my own experiences as
a deaf oral adult, neither do I want to 'refer' these parents to reactionary
cochlear implant advocates or ASL "native language" advocates (mind you,
no offense to these on Deaf-L!) but perhaps to meet other parents who have
gone this way before?

What do you look for when you want to do an early intervention in an infant
who is profoundly deaf at age 1 2 or 3?  Do you want to choose a good
kindergarten program, or do your own language acquisition schooling at home?
What utensils do you use?  What Dr. Spock "baby book bibles" do you use for
deaf kids?

Just wondering what is the expected standard in this day and age, than 20
years ago?

Thanks.
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:03:44 EDT
From:         Harold Johnson <HJOHNSON@KENTVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)
              6 Oct 1992 22:29:41 EDT from <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

The question Cathy is how can you receive the support/recognition that
you need to stay in there year-after-year + how can we go about giving
individuals in prep. to become teachers, access to you and other
dedicated teachers

I amasking the same question of myself now, I want to do less,and I want
to do what I focus upon well

been a long day!
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:54:21 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: hello - bio

arry Kirkland says:



QUESTIONS: The only question I have is: does anyone knows research authorities
for proving that only the best deaf lipreaders achieve 20-30% understanding of
what someone says to them? I just need the authority author name, journal, etc.


Thanks for asking this question, I have wondered this myself.  It seems like
a piece of folklore myself.  I know I can read about 85% of words on the lips,
am profoundly, prelingually deaf, and when people spout that "20-30%" number
it seems unproven a figure to me since it has gained so much currency.  Not that
    I am knocking anyone's need for sign language, but I *do* like to have my
facts straight and be able to quote facts knowing that I have the sources to
back Barry and I up!

Ciao!

Chris Lehfeldt
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:26:58 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RE:KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)

Lisamarie,

I too am glad no (or little?) harm came to you in the explosion.  I got
a BIG laugh out of the cow with milk out of her nose.  Heh, heh!

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
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