HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:50:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: gtephx.1992Aug19.195036.22404
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona


In article <1992Aug14.165106.4892@PA.dec.com>, stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
> 
> Experienced Aikidoka tend to have a posture and basic grounding skills
> that makes standing throws against them extremely difficult.  Probably not 
> what would be considered good practice in Judo, though.  I remember one 
> good competitive judoka trying for several minutes unsuccessfully in our dojo 
> to throw several of the senior Aikido people.  He sometimes threw them if he 
> switched to a tomoe or other sac throw, but they effectively heavy-armed him 
> against hip throws and footsweeps because of their posture and balance skills.
[rest of story deleted]

I got a chuckle when I was reading this 'cause it reminded me of a
leason I learned.  Having studied for a few years by this time, we
where in class practicing "unbendable arm".  For those that don't know
what this is, it's a excercise in ki where you have an outstreched
arm, your hand resting on the person in front if you, and they try to
bend your arm at the elbow while you concentrate on relaxing your
muscles, projecting ki out your finger tip, etc., etc., etc.. 
Anyways, I was working with my sensei, doing a great "unbendable arm"
when all he did was a slight turn to the right while controlling my
wrist/arm and sent me flying to the ground in a kote-gaeshi like fall.
... A little leason in practicing concentration without having
blinders on!
-- 
Jurek Rakoczynski, AG Communication Systems, POB 52179, Phoenix, AZ. 85072
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!rakoczynskij  Voice: +1 602 581 4867
Inet: gtephx!rakoczynskij@enuucp.eas.asu.edu              Fax: +1 602 582 7111
Inet: /DD.UN=J.RAKOCZYNSKI/O=GTE/PRMD=GTEMAIL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Subject: Wing Chun Books/Tapes?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:40:16 GMT


Can any of the Wing Chun folks out there
recommend any books or tapes?
_______
Al Tino
tino@globe2.ATT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cthong@fraser.sfu.ca (Christopher Thong)
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Keywords: wristlocks
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:44:12 GMT

funny - but having taken both judo and aikido (which was only for a SHORT
time ) i would think that a judoka however experienced would have trouble
with pinning or GRAPPLING with an aikidoka no?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 17 AUG 92 13:32:45    


ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) kindly responded to my WC comments ...
>stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) says:

Thanks very much for your comments, Marty.  I'm sure that some of the
weaknesses I thought I saw were just my inability to understand what
he was doing, and some were things that he uses his (considerable)
physical strength and explosive power to compensate for that might not be
classical Wing Chun.  I'm sure it's just like in Aikido, where people who are 
physically very powerful often have a harder time learning precision in 
techniques, because they can get away with powering the technique through, 
whereas the smaller, weaker people *have* to get it exactly right, or they 
can't get it to work at all.  You know what I mean ?  Anyway, I'd say that
what he does works for him, with his massive bone structure and thick
musculature.  

The stuff about sidestepping and hooking wasn't meant to imply 
anything like 'all I would do is ...' It was meant to say that I saw very
few weaknesses in what he was doing, and if I had to pick it apart
to fight this particular guy, or coach someone to fight him, I'd recommend
that the most likely openings in infighting would appear by keeping the hands
in tight and then shooting very short hooks over-and-around the 
shoulders and under-and-around the elbows, using evasive weaving 
body movement and lateral footwork, rather than a direct forward stepping in
because his structure in the center is so strong.   The usual types of 
direct combinations on the inside would probably be pretty well blocked, and he 
doesn't seem to lead enough on one side to permit an outside combination,
unless you're weaving a lot.  

I don't know how much of this applies to
classical WC, or whether it really even applies in this one case.  It's just
my impressions, for what they're worth.   Maybe he's completly unbeatable,
and maybe all WC people are completely unbeatable.  But my mind always runs
to try to find weaknesses rather than just give up.  ;-)

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Attitude, sectarianism, and the martial arts
Organization: me, myself, and i
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:27:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.174517.6965@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:

   Now, it seems to me that my dojo tries to stick to the sort of Buddhist 
   amorality at the heart of all of traditional Japanese culture.

I'm sorry to be so disagreeable, but the phrase "Buddhist amorality"
just sticks in my throat. If you think Buddhism teaches or encourages
amorality, you need to learn some more about Buddhism.

Obligatory martial arts content:

Sometimes people get the idea that all Chinese Buddhist monks were or
are martial arts experts. In fact, most are not and this perception
causes problems for Chinese Buddhists trying to teach in the West.


--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		life is too strange
From: cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart)
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:58:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.174615.22842@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>> "The sewer rat:  Jeopardy answer to "What good are .22 Shorts"
>Yeah, I guess, .22 short so the slug won't bounce up an bean ya???
>I wonder if it is probable to nail one of them suckers once they 
>start moving, with a handgun, oh Cherry, oh Cherry..............

Hi Stephen!  (rising to take the bait ;-)

I would use a .22 shot shell myself...

Maybe a comment on this stuff with the rat
and all...  When some people start carrying 
a handgun, with a carry permit or without, 
it is not uncommon to find an urge to get 
involved in "situations" come to the surface.

This is not because these are bad people, or
even macho people.  They are people who have 
strong beliefs, and deep down inside they want
to do the "right thing", whatever that may be
for them.  Now they have some new power that 
deep down inside they think might allow them 
to change some things.  People who always 
avoided the worst parts of town start not 
caring if they drive through them (bad) or 
they start finding excuses to drive through
them (worse).  Friends mostly talk people 
out of this, or they just get tired of it and 
shift back to their normal patterns (which is
the right thing).  Still, in a situation 
like the one that you described (but I didnt
understand your description real well maybe) 
there would be a real temptation to use that 
power to do the right thing, I would think.
After all these years of learning, a chance
to apply it, etc.

Do they hand out self-control pills when you
reach certain belt levels?  In a way, guns 
are better for this I think.  It would be 
hard to kill yourself with a MA (maybe I am 
wrong here) but with a gun you get RESPECT 
pretty early in the program, one way or another.

Self control, when you are in possesion of
a dangerous weapon, is a responsibility that 
you owe to all around you.  When you take on
the capability, you take on the responsibility.

Anyway, thats the way it is for guns.  Does it
work that way for MA?

Cherry!
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Attitude, sectarianism, and the martial arts
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:45:17 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada



I don't know if this is an inflammatory subject or not, but here goes...

I am a beginning student of Uechi-Ryu. A friend of mine, a blue belt in
Chito-Ryu, came along with me to one of my classes and was not impressed.
She seemed to feel that Uechi-Ryu encourages a "bad attitude" in it's 
students.  I'm not sure, but I gather that Chito-Ryu encourages a kind
of extreme pacifism in it's students. Is this accurate? 

Now, it seems to me that my dojo tries to stick to the sort of Buddhist 
amorality at the heart of all of traditional Japanese culture. We are 
encouraged to avoid violence, but if left with no acceptable alternative, 
to hit hard and effectively. Is this contrary to the spirit of the 
Chinese/Japanese/Okinawan martial arts? 

I'm a bit puzzled by this whole incident. If anyone has any comments that
would help me understand this whole question of "attitude in the martial arts"
I would be grateful to hear them. One almost gets the feeling that there is
a kind of sectarianism at work here... still, I am new to this game, and 
don't really know. 

Thank ya in advance...

Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Subject: TERRY DOBSON MEMORIAL SERVICE
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:23:25 GMT

  Memorial Service
        for
Terry Dobson Sensei

        at
     Mt. Vision
     Point Reys

       at 2pm
Saturday August 29th


fer
From: chang@assb01
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Lifting <ouch> with the testicles was Re: re: Shaolin Temple news
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:46:26 GMT
Reply-To: @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01

rtang asks:

>Just one question, HOW THE HECK do you lift ANYTHING
>with your testicles? There arent any muscles there?!

        I guess I have to get explicit <and generate painful imagery> here.
What the monk does is tie a rope around his testicles and the other end to
the object.

        I got a picture of one with a rather large rock tied to his testicles
where he is lifting it off of some platform.  Needless to say <ouch> that
his testicles were stretched quite a bit (say multitude of inches) in
that picture.

>Confused,

        In pain.
>RT

        I'll stick to strikes and blocks myself.

        Fo
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:32:20 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <BOWERS.92Aug13092654@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>>Question: do any other systems have such "regulated" black belt promotions?

Al you should have known I'd nit-pik this post and then
you could have flameproofed it. 
 
>The answer to this question from my perspective involves three
>dedicated and diverse groups of people.  The first is the Zen Nihon
>Kendo Renmei (All-Japan Kendo Federation).  Then there are two groups
>who represent the USA in kendo, they are Beikoku Kendo Renmei
>(American Kendo Federation) and the US Kendo Federation.
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually the name is Kendo Federation of USA (KFUSA) and the ZNKF
is not the founding body (Parent Organization).  The parent 
organization is the International Kendo Federation (IKF).  The 
IKF governs the kendo federations for memeber nations.  The
ZNKF however is a member of the IKF.

Currently the KFUSA is a member of IKF and the BKR is not.  This
is not really a concern because all rank and file kendo members
want to belong to a single group regardless of the name.  As
with all MA federation the BKR-KFUSA confusion is due to surprise
POLITICAL DIFFERENCES between the people at the top.  At least
we can take comfort? in the fact that the ZNKF is not the only
federation for kendo in JAPAN.  THe Butokukai is another large 
kendo federation that doesn't get along well with the ZNKF.
                                      >
>ZNKR is the founding body and all kendo applications for rank and
>teaching certificates (yes, they are two seperate and distinct things
>under the auspices of the kendo federation) must be approved by the
>home office (Tokyo, Japan).  The ZNKR has connections to the BKR and
>the USKF.
>
I have tried to figure out how to explain the relation of the
ZNKF standards for ranking and the other member nations.  It
is SURPRISE a little confusing as well.  Roughly member
nations are allowed to use what ever standard they want but most
choose to adopt the ZNKF guidelines.  It is amusing that some
of the IKF and ZNKF guidelines (Particularly with regard to 
time between ranks) disagree.
>Al Bowers                                 bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
  
Al I know all too well what you mean by questioning the idea
that the average kendo player would understand how to use a 
real sword.


-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Summary: or, eliminate 'black belt,' and provide specific license/certification
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:39:15 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


hoff@fasic5.tmc.edu (Jim Hoff) writes...

> I think that dedication could
>carry a student very far in an art, but in order to be a black belt in
>an art, you must be very good at that art or you cheapen the meaning of 
>Black Belt.
>	Comments?  Similar experiences?
> 
>					Jim Hoff

I agree with you, Jim.  For a certification to have meaning, it should be 
made clear what that meaning is from the start.  Either it should be explicitly
an honorary time-in-service or service-to-art marker, like the Aikido school
I most recently trained in (where failing a test was virtually unheard of),
or it should have explicit performance objectives of some sort to establish
a baseline level.  

Contrary to some arguments I've heard to the contrary,
this needn't prevent physically or mentally challenged persons from achieving
ranks  --  if the instructor is creative enough and experienced enough to teach
the significantly challenged, then they are good enough to design the
objectives functionally and loosely enough to allow people to excel within
their limitations in the art, while still providing for them to not achieve
the certification if the achievable objectives aren't met.  And to prevent
excessive subjectivity from sneaking in.  The alternative
is to have separate certifications for challenged individuals, that allow them
to meet the same goals through entirely different means.  But they *do* meet
the goals.   No problem with separate honorary time-in-service ranks, but 
I see them as distinct.

In general, I've always felt that schools should provide a separate teaching
certification from practitioner certification, since the most talented
performer is not neccessarily well suited for teaching, and vice versa.

							kind regards,

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: LGOODIN@WORLDBANK.ORG (Laura Goodin)
Subject: Re: Altitude adaption
Organization: World Bank
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:49:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.203028.23040@col.hp.com>, gee@col.hp.com (Ken Gee) writes:
> 
> 	I'm no doctor (I don't even play one on TV), but I have heard that
> the physiological effects of of living and working at altitude are mostly
> centered around the oxygen carrying capacity of your blood system.  The blood
> increases its oxygen capacity by either increasing the number of red blood
> cells or increasing the amount of hemoglobin per cell.  The result is an 
> increase in the ability of the blood to carry oxygen and an increase in the
> viscosity of the blood. 

Last week I spent five days in Colorado.  Ordinarily I'm a low-life 
(Washington, DC *is* at sea level, rougly), and I found the first few days I
had a low-grade, constant headache, and when I tried to run the second day
there, I got nauseated.  By the fourth day, however, I had very little trouble
on a five-mile run.  Was this unusually quick adaptation, or was I psyching
myself out that second day?  (This was Denver, incidentally, and the fourth
day was Golden.)  How long does it take for these physiological changes to 
occur?
  
-- Laura
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Comments, please
Organization: Savagi Associates, North Korean Coastal Branch
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 12:47:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <1992Aug10.195402.15617@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
>
>Two items:
>1. The Book (by Barnes?) titled _The Kundalini Equation_.

This book (by Steve Barnes) is weird but good.  The main character gets
into a sort of "applied Chi-Kung" practice, which was originally developed
long ago to turn volunteers into killing machines.  It affects him physically
as well as mentally.  I liked the tension created by comparing "good" 
martial arts teachers to cultists.  

If you want to see what happens when a pizza eating soda swilling couch
potato goes on an ox blood and weird meditation diet, this is a good choice.

>2. The series (Murphy & Sapir, now ghostwritten) _The Destroyer_.

Ah!  This is a serialized history of Sinanju.  It is absolutely accurate.
The only fault I find is that it does not contain enough of Chiun's amazing
poetry.  A look at the two greatest martial artists in history, and what
MA's can do besides opening a dojo and teaching.  A true inspiration to all
of us!

		David Pipes
robear@digex.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dccarr@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (david.c.carr)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:40:07 GMT

From article <1992Aug12.113218.9958@walter.cray.com>, by radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner):
>> In article <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>> 
>> < Stephen's anti-gay (among others) fear of god post deleted >
> 
> <Lauren's request for folks to ignore Stephen's post or
> take it to email deleted>

Too late, Lauren.  :-)



Dave Carr
isshin shorinji ryu okinawa te
ronin, wa bun bushi no michi
"Don't push the river, but don't pull no punches."
david.c.carr@att.com
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:15:35 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1992Aug14.092713.2723@mtroyal.ab.ca>, mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
|> >>   The difference between Western and Occidental thought is that Occidentals 
|> >>   recognize mastery and Westerners have to have everything proven.
|> >>
|> > How did you arrive at the generalization that  *Orientals* recognize mastery
|> > and Westerners have to have everything proven?  What is the basis for
|> > recognizing mastery?  Do you mean that they accept it without scrutiny?
|> 
|> I'm wondering if generally (ouch,ouch,ouch) the eastern cultures accept 
|> mysticism  and such more readily than western ones. Generally being a greater 
|> percentage of the population, and mysticism and such being more informal
|> institutions.  Given that, perhaps recognizing mastery in the west is mastery
|> in one of the western formal institutionalized discipline (academic, science,
|> orchestra) and in the east, more people (grass root) institution.  Hence
|> doctors might acknowlege the prowess of a martial artist and title as Master
|> without giving it the same weight as a master in Organic Thermo Dynamics.
|> The east might put a genetic engineer's accompishment on the same pedestal
|> as that of a MA master.

About the East accepting mysticism more readily than the West:
It was not all that long ago that West was pretty mystic.  Before
the Renaissance the West was pretty heavily into mysticism.  To
Eastern standards, 500 years is not a long time.

Belief in mysticisms is usually rooted in tradition.  The West jettisons
its traditions pretty easily.  The East has a much harder time getting
rid of traditions.  

If the East did not value tradition so much they
probably would have stopped traditional martial arts training when guns came 
along like
the West did and we would not have this newsgroup and this thread right now.

I am not convinced that the East holds a martial arts master in esteem equal
to a physics master.  Maybe they did in the past but I doubt they still do.
I know my Eastern friends do not.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: doug@celia.UUCP (Doug Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:48:31 GMT
Reply-To: celia!doug@usc.edu (Doug Nichols)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood


I'm a bit confused, I suppose.  I can't imagine that just being involved in
something  for  some undetermined amount of time justifys that you get back
some symbolic reward that should, to my mind, denote significant  knowledge
and ability within your art.

Now, I'm not coming from a eastern MA, but western competetive fencing,  so
my  slant is always going to be that you get what you deserve from your art
based upon proven ability.  Rather than  belts,  fencers  are  rated  in  a
series  of  rankings,  based upon a standardized national system, "A" being
the best, down through "E" and below that, Unclassified.  So, if you're  an
"A"  in  California,  you're  seeded as an "A" in Wisconsin and vice-versa.
Now, a Wisconsin "A" may be seeded as an "A" in  a  California  tournament,
but isn't always going to have the ability that a California  or  New  York
"A"  because  of  the  dearth  of people of similar rank in their vicinity.
However, at least you can make a determination based upon all things  being
basically equal, as you cannot receive your rating in any manner other than
by  superior performance in a forum that is anything but a microcosm of one
particular group's opinion of your ability.  In open competition, you  have
to prove your ability in combat with people from all over, against any  and
all  kinds  of  styles and levels of ability, and still come out top o' the
heap.  Or you don't get rated.  No matter how long you've  been  at  it.  I
know  people  that have fenced for twenty years and are still unclassified.
And not  because  they're  lazy,  but  because  they're  lousy.  No  insult
intended.  If  they're still doing it, it means they love it and they learn
from it and they have fun with it.  It doesn't mean you give  them  an  "A"
classification.

It would seem to me that any group that is selectively  creating,  in  this
case,  black belts, within an insulated environment where anyone can become
one based upon time or money spent, well,  seems  to  me  these  types  are
watering  down  the black belt gene pool in a rather alarming manner, and I
don't think you've hurt yourself by getting away from them.

Some people are really happy being big fish in a small pond,  and  if  they
want  to  call  themselves  "black  belts"  I guess that's what they'll do.
They'd better stay close to home, though.

My opinions, obviously....

Doug
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)
Subject: Bush Black belt??!!!
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:09:08 GMT

I saw a photo of Bush in some martial arts seminar.

He was wearing a gi with a black belt.

I thought a black belt was something that was EARNED after years of sweat and 
toil.  Guess I was wrong.  This must mean that anyone can wear it.