From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Where did all my "friends" go?
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:55:15 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <1992Aug22.005803.8435@midway.uchicago.edu>
orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:

>   This, on the other hand, isn't quite so good.  They could either be
>moderately dense or they don't really want you as a close friend.  You
>could try to be rather blatant about it - when they start discussing
>a party or somesuch, you could casually point out that "It's been a while
>since I've been to a <x>, mind if I drop by for your next <x>?"

I don't want to be pushy. If they haven't invited me, there's a reason for
it, and I want to either correct it or get some better friends, rather than
force myself on people who obviously don't want me.

>   What's your flat look like?  Does it have room to entertain a guest
>without them vanishing into a black hole of junk (my flat looked like
>that for a while, but discovering a collection of railroad books under
>a heap provoked me into a cleaning session.  Now I can confortably entertain
>one person (a few prospects spring to mind.. *sigh*) or three/four friends,
>if they don't mind being particularly comfy on the couch whilst being
>menaced by my book & music collection.

The house I share is a mess, but some of these people visit the guy I share
with so although a messy house is a problem I don't think it's the root
cause. The house used to be tidy, then I realised that I was the only one
doing ANY tidying up or house work so I gave up. It's got to the point where
Jon has a go occasionally now, but it doesn't last. Oh yes, the garden is a
mess too. My mum would die of shame if she saw the place, but then at home I
helped her around the garden and the house. It's all a matter of what the
situation is. To me, sharing with Jon is temporary (for the last five
years). We share a house together, not a home. Since we're just sharing
crash space, I can't be bothered putting any energy into the place,
especially since when I did in the early days he did absolutely nothing
(except mow the microscopic lawn very occasionally). If I was sharing with
an SO to build a home and lasting relationship I think things would be
completely different.

>|One lot frequently eats out for sunday lunch. They invite the guy I share a
>|house with, but never me. Indeed one sunday morning they rang to ask if Jon
>|was coming, but he was already out. They said "OK thanks" and put the phone
>|down. I know these people - why didn't they invite me?
>
>   Invite yourself.  If they hem and haw, you can always be rude and ask why.

Actually I don't really want to go. It costs too much, and it's the kind of
food you get fat on, especially if you sit around doing nothing for the rest
of the day. But it would be nice to be invited, even if only once and then
they find out I don't want to go.

>| Of course women don't socialise with me
>|because in their eyes I'm not female,

>  No, somehow I don't think that's so.  Men and woman do socialise, even
>when there isn't the compelling ulterior motive.

My scene is fairly Cambridge University dominated, which is about 35-40%
female (it varies every year). Some women keep out of the way deliberately
or just end up spending all their time within the single sex women's
colleges. This leaves sufficiently few women per hot blooded male that the
situation has often been described as a cattle market. This leads to the
women assuming that men talking to them are always out sharking, and leads
to some of the men getting fed up with the fairly competitive atmosphere and
giving up entirely. It's a fairly ugly scene all round - I can't stand it.
The only relief is in the orchestras I play in. They are over half female,
and the women know that you are there primarily to play music so it's more
relaxed. However, rehearsals are at slightly odd times so there is little or
no socialising. One of them finished at 10:30 PM on a Monday (too late) and
the other finishes at 6 PM on Fridays (too early). If the times were better
(eg. 8 or 9 PM finish) they'd probably be a very nice place to socialise.

>And, you
>know, there are still all the *men who do those things, and if you don't
>want *them for their bodies (I may be biased [so to speak], but I can think
>offhand of one or two computer geeks that I'd be more than happy to help
>break the morals code with), you can at least strike up a friendship with
>them and then become friends/lovers with their sisters/girlfriends/girl-
>friends sisters.

They don't have girlfriends or sisters, and if they did have girlfriends
they're up-tight enough that the mere thought of polyamory would give them
heart attacks. And they probably regard me as too perverted to be allowed
to go out with any theoretical sisters or gf's sisters. Basically, I
think I need a new group of friends. Finding them is the tricky bit
though.

>   In soc.singles, this has been run into the ground, and the general
>consensus there is that would put you into the dreaded LJBF (Let's Just
>Be Friends) category, and won't (at least not in most cases) drive the
>people screamingly away.

Oh no, the dreaded "Let's Just Be Friends". Argh! My last attempt at a
girlfriend ditched me with this, and she's hardly spoken to me since. She
said she didn't want to go out with me because she was frightened to lose me
as a friend. I don't know why she was frightened of this, since we aren't
friends, and never really were overly, more friends of friends. She was
nice she was. Sigh. Nice name too - Sarah. (Hi Swamp Thing - no of course
it wan't our nice Swamp Thing, she wouldn't say such stupid things. But
she does have the same name, if only phonetically.)

>   But I can't really see bringing it up when you see someone copping a
>feel, unless the people are fairly good friends...

We were meant to see, it was obviously a show, and it was only an extreme
example of a general issue.

>|Did they have their sense of adventure amputated at birth or what?
>
>   In England?  Dunno; it's your country.  Lots of people think it's
>a grand adventure just getting laid, and anything else is, like, way
>to spacey, you know?  I'd not imagine that the UK, as a rule, is any
>less puritanical than the USA about such things.

Actually I think the UK is less puritanical than the US, certainly a lot
less puritannical than your bible-belt anyway. We probably give a poor
showing compared to California though.

Owen.