From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: In defense of Peter against "Lady" Adrienne
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:59:02 GMT


By (Muriel Nelson):
>In article nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>
>>Adrienne, by the way, did not use a smiley when she came up
>>with that story about hearing women screaming at doctors to
>>stop delivering their children.  Part of her prerogative as
>>Lady High Everything Else, you see, is to leave them off.
>>
>It is a measure of your misogyny that you fail to appreciate
>Adrienne.  


"Appreciate"?  Adrienne who's so bitter and angry she devalues
motherhood at every opportunity?



>She is a doggedly consistent defender of individual
>choice for women, 

And the trashing of children.


                de
                ^
>and a system of values which places the life
>and life plans of a thinking, feeling, living, breathing woman
>above the interests of potential lives in all cases.  

Even when those lives are very REAL, and whose only crime
is simple dependency on their mothers.


>If you
>find this irritating, it speaks volumes about you.  

It sure speaks about you and Adrienne, doesn't it.


>Adrienne
>has asked you to leave off the "Lady High" sarcastic bullshit.
>I'm asking you, too.

And I am asking him to continue it _forever_, because it is all too true.
Not only does Adrienne's arrogance make her think she is above everyone
else in the net, but it makes her think she has to the right to kill
other human beings who simply get in her way.


>Perhaps the reason you don't see a smiley on the posting about
>women screaming at doctors is because it wasn't intended to be 
>funny.  

Perhaps it was even a lie.   I have seen women screaming in childbirth, but
it was _never_ to make doctors stop delivering their babies.  It was _always_
a plea for them to hurry the process and get it over with.


>It was intended to make you think about your twisted sense 
>of priorities, 

Holy Cow!  
Adrienne is the most twisted person on the net, and you're joining her!


>which focuses in so tightly on the suffering of
>a few women who've had negative experiences with abortion, and

Far more than a "few"!


>completely glosses over the very real suffering of millions of
>women who go through long and complicated labors and deliveries.

You know, even women with long complicated labors and deliveries manage 
to get over it emotionally and even go on to have MORE children!   WHY?
Because the overall outcome -- a beautiful child they quickly fall in love
with -- is POSITIVE!


>If you gave this some serious thought, it might occur to you
>that childbirth is a much more prolonged and violent experience
>than abortion, 

Whereas the experience of women all over the world who suffer the violence
of abortion, forever have only the pain and NEGATIVE outcome to associate
with their experience.


>an experience which should never be forced on an
>unwilling woman.

For Pete's sake, Muriel, you're addressing the one man on the net who's been
providing documentation of women who've been having ABORTIONS FORCED on them!
and attempting to DEFEND THEM!   Who, as a very participatory father, sees the
positive outcome of childbirth, that even you two women, Adrienne and Muriel,
can't manage to see!


>muriel

Suzanne Forgach
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.birthright