From: manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:28:28 GMT
Organization: DSC/Optilink Access Products

In article <11785@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <193241@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>> In article <11727@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> > In article <193135@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>> > "They insist that they don't support molestation, and yet a large
>> > fraction of the group will engage in semantic games to show that 
>> > adults having sex with kids as young as eight isn't 'molestation' 
>> > but 'love.'

>> Interestingly, in all of the public debates I've seen with you, *you* are
>> the one who keeps tossing ages like "eight" and "three" around.  The others,
>> including Jeff Dauber, talk about adolescents who have gone through puberty.
>> You, of course, refuse to even discuss the issue in any rational manner,
>> resorting instead to the "child molesters" straw man.

>Here's a statement from Ry Schwark:

>$ What do you think?  I mean you couldn't possible survive the guilt unless
>$ everybody said it was ok, could you?  I mean I fornicated with my 
>$ upstairs neighbor at 8, so like I *know* people can't possibly do it
>$ when people have awful ideas about it.  I mean look at me, I'm a quivering
>$ blob of EVIL SEX-GUILT! stop me before I sin again!
>$ 
>$ 
>$ Ry Schwark

I read this to say that Ry Schwark had sex with his upstairs neighbor
when he (Schwark) was 8.  It doesn't say how old the neighbor was.
Was the neighbor an adult, a teen or another 8 year old?  Is Ry
Schwark male or female? Was the neighbor male or female?  Was this a
hetero- or homo- sexual act? You have know way of knowing.  This post
says nothing definitive about child molestation by adults. 

I give you 0 points for this post.

>Here's a posting that ought to convey what they are after pretty
>well:

>$ In <62364@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) writes:
>$ 
>$ >Don't bother posting any notices to anyone from NAMBLA today.
>$ >They've all gone out to see that new movie, "Honey, I Blew the Kid".
>$ 
>$ Now that's a mouthful.  :-)
>$ 
>$ Yours in Liberation,

>$ Roy Radow		roy@panix.com         ...rutgers!cmcl2!panix!roy

This is an child molestation/incest joke in tremendously bad taste.  
Bad jokes are made about all subjects practically all the time.  The
joke does not necessarily imply the joke teller believes or supports
the underlying subject of the joke.  

While this is not a direct hit I agree the subject is disturbing
and give you half a point.

>And of course, memorable postings from Jeff Dauber about how 12
>year olds should be open season, though he agrees that younger might
>be a problem:

>$ Fuck you.  Don't you fucking dare tell me that I am doing a disservice
>$ to homosexuality.  Get the fuck out of my sex life.  I have not taken
>$ any shit about what I have done sexually since I became sexually active
>$ at age 12.  Just because you do not approve of children having sex
>$ does not make it wrong.  Get over your hang-ups, I know of many
>$ situations where boys were involved in man-boy relationships which
>$ were wonderful.

Jeff is talking here about a relationship he initiated when he was 12.
(The implication is the relationship was homosexual in nature, but it
is not explicitly stated.) He has not explicitly advocated adults
pursuing children.  In another posting I question Jeff whether it is
appropriate for adults to respond to sexual advances from children - I
don't think it is - but it Jeff thinks he knew what he was doing and
doesn't think it was molestation. 

Was this child molestation? 

You have presented three postings involving five individuals none of
which clearly and explicitly support child molestation, I think you
need better evidence to support your assertion that large numbers of
homosexuals support child molestation. 

--
dave
manley@optilink.com

Xref: sparky ca.politics:6675 ba.politics:4427