Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Approved-By:  Uma Ramamurthy <uma@ORION.STJUDE.ORG>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.india-d
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:37:35 -0600
From:         Uma Ramamurthy <uma@orion.stjude.org>
Subject:      India-D Digest - Jan 21

India Interest Group Digest Thu, 21 Jan 93       Volume 2: Issue  80

Today's Topics:

      "New" India
      Another no dowry community
      Cricket Simulation
      Dictatorship - Not a Feasible Idea
      Dowry and a related issue
      Grad pgms in Intl Business
      Hindu Gangs
      India-D
      India as a  permanent member in UN security Council
      Info about EE and CS Depts at Cleveland State Univ
      Info about NIH Fogarty Fellowships
      Information requested
      Languae Debate [Part 1 of 6]
      Medical Terminology for the Layperson
      Of course American football is fun
      One more way to find your friend's email address
      Sambar series
      Secularism and India - Part 8 of 8
      Some submission suggestions i heard about
      The Balasore Test Range and India's missile program
      Visiting India during EAD
      Words of Swami Vivekanda    Part-II

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___________________________________________________________________________

Date: 19 Jan 1993 13:52:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Sumon Bhaumik <sumonbha@alnitak.usc.edu>
Subject: "New" India

  Source : India Today (Jan 15, 93)

  1.    If we blink now, events may blind us.   -       P. V. N. Rao

  2.    What Md. Ghori and Ghengis Khan failed to do, the BJP has done to
        India. They have destroyed thousands of years of heritage and our
        image of tolerance and pluralism.       -       Chandra Shekhar

  3.    Don't insult the jungle by saying that the law of the jungle
        prevailed on December 6; it was ten times worse. - Indrajit Gupta

  4.    The BJP dreams of a Hindu Rashtra, they will get it only over our
        dead bodies.                            -       Indrajit Gupta.

  5.    The war has started and Delhi is our aim. The prime minister has
        sacrificed the BJP in a bid to save himself. - B. S. Shekhawat

  6.    Who knows, Narsimha Rao's decision of not taking a decision might
        be a decision as well.                  -       Chandra Shekhar

  7.    I thought I would be like a Pied Piper. I thought I could start
        selling dreams.                         -       Harshad Mehta

  8.    We expected a change when a south Indian became prime minister. But
        we feel left out.                       -       Jayalalitha

  9.    We will not let the Government function because it lacks the Sikh
        mandate.                                -       G. S. Tohra

 10.    I do not believe in the 90s team. Too many batsmen were phased out
        too quickly.                            -       Md. Azharuddin

 11.    While other actresses camouflage their drinks in Thums Up and then
        go hicupping, I drink openly.           -       Nadira

 P.S: I realize this is not a forum for voicing individual opinions. I would
      just like to point out that out of many quotes I chose those which
      I thought set the mood for the "new" India.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 10:27:55 -0500 (EST)
From: abd@conflict.engr.ucf.edu (Adesh Daryapurkar)
Subject: Another no dowry community

"Bagherwal Digamber Jain" is another community which doesnot have a custom of
dowry. The father of the girl gives the daughter and a coconut(Shri-fal).

Adesh

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 16:24:27 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dipan Shah <esuvb@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: Cricket Simulation

Dear Netters,

           Hi! I am a first time user of the India-D network. Currently I am
in my 2nd year at University studying Computer Engineering. As part of my
second year project I have been asked to design a Cricket Simulation. I am
sure there are alot of Cricket fans and experts out there! What I would like
is a few ideas as to what the simulation should contain. The main objective of
the simulation is to teach someone how to play cricket. So all you cricket
lovers - ideas are welcome. Thanks alot.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 12:39:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "D. Karanth" <KARANTH@ucc.uwindsor.ca>
Subject: Dictatorship - Not a Feasible Idea

Hi netters,

After the Ayodhya incident,few netters are suggesting to go for dictatorship.
The question is whether it is a pragmatic idea. If India goes for a
dictatorship, its credibility will go down internationally. Dictatorship
is worser than democracy. We beg everyday with IMF, WORLD BANK etc , to
pay for our treasury bills. We can not afford to live without the
support of international community.

Most of the western democratic countries do not give any respect to a country
governed by a dictator. I am sure that India will not opt for dictatorship.

Some of the netters may be worried about the possibility of BJP coming to
power. According to it is just like any other political party in India.
In order to gain votes, parties like DMK and other leftist parties fuel the hat
red towards brahmins and other forward caste people. Where as some people in
BJP try to fuel the hatred towards muslims.  I don't see any difference between
BJP, CONG(I) or Left Wing in their strategy for catching the vote bank.
However, economic and some of the other policies of Cong(I) and BJP are very
viable for the country's growth in the global scene. If one wants to have an
isolated country, leftist parties are good. I think, our main aim should be to
build a strong economy and not to have a dictatorship. We have to become a
key player in the global economy. We need to follow the footsteps of some
developed country for faster growth. It is too late to form our own economic
policies. We are lagging behind by other devloped countries by atleast 10 to
20 years. Our economy is worser than some of the fundamentalist countries.
We need a better democracy, economy and education. Definitely not
dictatorship.

D. Karanth

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 12:56:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Pratheep Chidambaram <pratheep@herky.cs.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Dowry and a related issue

The system of Dowry, when it first started, was with
noble intentions. It was meant to be a voluntary donation
by the Bride's parents to help the newly-weds start their
new life together.

The problem with dowry in modern days, however, arises
when the bride-groom *demands* money from his in-laws
even if it is beyond their means. Sure, Bhavesh is
justified when he suggests that the daughters should be
allowed an equal share in her Parents' wealth. This means
that the Parents do have money that they could give their
daughter.

Bhavesh has confused two issues that are quite
different. Dowry is a social evil, that cannot be solved
by the Constitution.

Pratheep Chidambaram

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 08:38:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: SL3G9@CC.USU.EDU
Subject: Grad pgms in Intl Business

Dear Netters,
        A friend of mine wants to come to the U.S. for his Doctoral program in
International Business.  He is B.E. Electrical and M.B.A. (I.I.F.T.) from India
 and has good work experience (presently working in L&T Exports).
        I would like to find out (for him) about Universities that have good
International Business programs (Doctoral) that would provide Admission + Aid
tosomeone like him with an Average GMAT score (630) and a good work experience.
        Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
        BISHI

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 21:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: CHRMNVK@engvms.unl.edu
Subject: Hindu Gangs

Dear Editor,
        In his posting, ramprasa@ukrain.corp.mot.com states that Hinhu
gangs like Shiv Sena has killed moslems. I would like to say two things
regarding this.

        Firstly, there is no reason to beleive that Shiv Sena has done this
and secondly it is an organization which has won just less than half seats
in Bombay municipal coorpoaration elections and therefore has support of
large number of people. Therefore, you can't call it a gang and place in
the category of LTTE etc.

        peace,

Nitin

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 14:55:46 -0500 (EST)
From: dhulipal@egr.msu.edu
Subject: India-D

This is further to the publication of my article in the India-D dated
Jan 13, in which I pointed out incongruencies in the implementation
of editorial policies by the editor Uma Ramamurthy. I am surprised to
find no reply included with the article. Does the silence mean that the
editor is repentant about way she has handled the Digest???
or Does she want to bypass the issue ????????
Also the question of whether she will allow a poll on the issue
remains unanswered.

This reminds me of a saying "maunam artha sammatham".
silence is half acceptance is what it translates to.

I am sorry that I could not reply to the Digest earlier because I was
ill and this is the first time I am reading the mail after the
digest of Jan 13 came out.

Dhulipala Ramakrishna

 [ Dear Member,
        The Editor answered your questions a month ago, on this Digest.
  We do not have the time and do not see any need/purpose in repeating
  those answers again and again. At India-D, we appreciate the fact that
  you are entitled to your views, your criticisms, your claims, your
  surprises and your questions --- So long as your expression of these
  conform to the guidelines and format of this forum, your posting
  will be accepted and posted in this Digest.                  - Editor ]


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 14:01 MTS
From: Dhananjay Patankar <PATANKARRTOO@CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: India as a  permanent member in UN security Council

Hi,
In response to Alwar Giridharan's posting regarding India and the UN:
>" Since the U.N. is supposed to represent the world and since India holds
>about 1/5th of the world's population, shouldn't India be made a permanent
>member of the U.N.?"
>
>Should this happen, it would immensly help India as no sanctions can be
>imposed against India. Any sanction would require the approval of the
>permanent members and even if one permanent member disapproves then that
>sanction is not passed. So come along Netters! Shoot your points of view

Firstly it is the permanent membership in the SECURITY COUNCIL of the UN
that is the issue. All members of the UN itself are permanent.

Also, permanent membership is distinct from veto powers. According to
what I have read, there was some possibility of India being made a
permanent member, but WITHOUT veto powers. So we COULD NOT ensure that
no resolution is passed against us, but we COULD ensure that our
viewpoint always got presented and our vote always counted.

Should India get it? Is population a sufficient consideration for being
in the Security Council? I do not believe India is a major player in
world security affairs. India is not economically, politically, or
militarily strong enough that its input is essential in taking decisions
that affect international relations all over the world. Moreover, India
has not shown the necessary maturity in its foreign policy stands on the
many issues currently worrying the rest of the world.

Dhananjay B. Patankar

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 13:03:56 -0500 (EST)
From: rpalakk@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU (rajesh palakkal)
Subject: Info about EE and CS Depts at Cleveland State Univ

Hi netters,
        I need some info about the Electrical Engg. and Comp. Science depts.
at Cleveland State University - like the department ranking, the areas of
research activity, the funding scene etc. Please send info about accomodation,
expenses(both academic and living) and  prospects of on-campus employment.
Please mail to :
     rpalakk@eng.clemson.edu
Thanking you in advance.
Rajesh Palakkal.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 12:15 -0800 (PST)
From: amardeep singh thind <IC46AST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Info about NIH Fogarty Fellowships

Hi netters,
           I am looking for information about the NIH Fogarty Fellowships,
that are advertised by the ICMR. A friend of mine is applying from India, and
I would be grateful if any body having information would pass it on to me.What
I am specially interested in is the criteria for selection,who makes the select
ion(i.e. the ICMR or the Fogarty Foundation) and where it is tenable.It would
be just great to hear from a   fellowship recipient. My phone is (310)-794-3224
and my e-mail address is IC46AST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU. Thanx.

Amardeep Singh Thind.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 13:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Sapna Mehtani <XM00SM0%LUCCPUA.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Information requested

hi,netters
        I am planning to visit India this summer.I have to book a ticket
from Chicago to New Delhi.Somebody told me about Mona Travels and Discou
nt Travels both based in Chicago.I would really appreciate if somebody
could tell me how reliable these two agencies are.I would also like to
know about other Travel agents in the Chicago area.Anybody who can help
me should send me an e-mail at xm00sm0@luccpua.it.luc.edu.If somebody
is planning to go to NewDelhi inthe last week of may and would like
some company,please let me know because I would prefer some company
rather than going alone.
                                                      thanking you,
                                                       sapna mehtani

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 11:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Deivan Durai <DURAI@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Languae Debate [Part 1 of 6]

LANGUAGE DEBATE:  Arguments Against Imposition of Hindi

1.  A natural language can be characterized as an embodiment of the
    collective feelings, emotions, and history of the people who consider it
    their mother tongue.  Cultures and traditions both feed the language as
    well as derive from it.  That being the case, the collective sentiments of
    a community would be offended if outsiders are perceived to be trying
    concertedly to denigrate the community's vernacular.

2.  To most Tamils, Tamil language takes a place akin to God.  Tamils would
    talk about "Tamil Mother" the same way an Indian talks about "Bharat
    Matha".  In many Tamil functions, recitals, rehearsals, etc., songs
    praising Tamil are sung at the start.  The fact that Tamil language is
    that much dear to Tamils can be realized by reminding ourselves that scores
    of Tamils committed self-immolation during the infamous Hindi-agitation in
    the 60s.

3.  India can do much better by adopting a stance that is fair and equitable.
    In my view, the best solution is to have a nation-wide language policy that
    encourages and commits students to learn three [or, perhaps more!]
    languages.  The government need not make suggestions or enforce a policy
    as to which language(s) must they be.  The students, the general population,
    and the marketplace are capable of making the right decisions.  I have no
    doubts that Hindi will become more popular then because the learners will
    have realized the need and importance for it.  The policy will still allow
    the students to study their mother tongues and English.

    If Switzerland can require each of its citizens to learn three languages
    and if most Europeans can speak multiple languages, so can we!  If
    Nigeria can adopt a multiple language policy, so can we!

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 09:40:40 -0500
From: desaivi@Kodak.COM
Subject: Medical Terminology for the Layperson

   The following does not need any translation and one need not be
from North India or South India; or a Hindu/muslim to have a few
laughs!

   Artery.....................The study of fine paintings
   Barium.....................What you do when CPR fails
   Benign.....................What you do after you be eight
   Cesarian Section...........A district in Rome
   Colic......................A Sheep Dog
   Coma.......................A punctuation mark
   Congenital.................Friendly
   Dilate.....................Live long
   Fester.....................Quicker
   G.I. series................Baseball games between teams of soldiers
   Grippe.....................A suitcase
   Hangnail...................A coat hook
   Medical Staff..............A doctor's cane
   Minor Operation............Coal Digging
   Morbid.....................A higher offer
   Nitrate....................Lower than day rate
   Node.......................Was aware of
   Organic....................Church musician
   Outpatient.................A person who has fainted
   Post-operative.............A letter carrier
   Protein....................In favor of young people
   Secretion..................Hiding anything
   Serology...................Study of English knighthood
   Tablet.....................A small table
   Tumor......................An extra pair
   Urine......................Opposite of you're out
   Varicose veins.............Veins which are very close together

Vinay Desai, Ph.D.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 19:41:57 -0700 (MST)
From: SANDEEP KRISHNAMURTHY <KRSNA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Of course American football is fun

Hi everybody.

I am glad Arjun brought this thing up. I am a crazy football fan and watch
all college/pro games.  To me sports is very exciting and I also enjoy the
NBA. But, football is the real thing.

It is amazing what a conversation starter football can be. I have made a
number of friends through casual conversations.

I
find football the grandest sport in the world. Wimbeldon may have its
sober elegance, Lords its understated charm. But, folks, face it.
Football is the grandest spectacle on earth. The first time I went to a
football game I was taken in by everything but the football (and this
was a college game!)...the floodlights, the band, the cheer-leaders, the
bright uniforms and jazzy helmets...Man, life is good.

As for preferences it is the Cowboys all the way. We got together last
Sunday for the game and I was the only cowboy fan. I had to leave early.
But, as the bills say" You gotta believe."

It is going to be the Cowboys on the 31st. Any takers?

Cheers
Sandeep

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 10:48:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Mahesh Bagade <c23mkb@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
Subject: One more way to find your friend's email address

Hello Guys,

If you are interested in finding email address of your pal, following is
another method. It is assumed that the friend you are looking for has posted
an article/followup-article to any of the newsgroup on the usenet.

Send mail to "mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu" with the following one-line:

         send usenet-addresses/First_Name
                     or
         send usenet-addresses/Last_Name
                     or
         send usenet-addresses/First_Name Last_Name

Within the next half-hour you will receive a file with the required
information.

Hope this help....
Mahesh

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 11:13:33 -0800 (PST)
From: R S Mani <rmani@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Sambar series

Hi Indians,

  - What I felt as the inner feeling of Mr.C.Venkatesh, which made him write
all those about Tamilians, was the word 'Sambar'.
  - If you want to say good about something, you are welcome, it is not going
to harm.
  - But why do people, without even thinking for a while, hurt others feelings.
  - Had the sentence 'Sambar, made as the national ..' not appeared, Mr.CV
would not have come out with a list, and several replies (including this)
would not have come, (though we came to know of many things to be proud of as
"I N D I A N S").
                                                        - A proud Indian,
                                                                R S Mani.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Jan 1993 13:02:47 -0400 (AST)
From: Girish <bond@jupiter.Sun.CSD.unb.ca>
Subject: Secularism and India - Part 8 of 8

>From: dave@ttd.teradyne.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Judging various definations of Secularism and their inverted implementa-
tion  in India, its anti-Hindu character becomes self-evident. Congress party
and its leftish affilliations have been  the  chief  architects  of  negative
Secularism and had unhindered monopoly in its implementation. Often one defi-
nation was posed to the masses to implement just the  opposite  or  different
defination.   Never  has  been Secularism put thru public debate or consensus
regarding its desirability, precise defination and scope. If Secularism is so
good,  its  votaries  should  never  shy away from seeking the consensus from
Hindu majority. In stead, Secularism was inserted in the Indian  Constitution
using the political chill of the Emergency by Congress party. Why do Secular-
ism has to walk on  the shadow of  Stalinist measures?  The  recent  upheaval
also  has  brought  out  the  inherent insecurity and weaknesses of Congressy
Secularism. In stead of engaging in good faith debate on Secularism, Secular-
ism has again sought to fall back on the familiar tactics and Stalinist meas-
ures to silence Hindus. What is the reason for fear, insecurity, paranoia and
exclusionary  and  reactionary behaviour on the part of Congressy Secularism?
Is it because their brand of Secularism is a disguise for anti-Hinduism?   Is
such Secularism a cover for globalism as opposed to nationalism?  Is Secular-
ism a cover for anti-nationalism? Is  Secularism  a  cover  for  Statism?  Is
anti-statism  really  anti-national  and anti-Secular?  This last question is
crucial because all patriotic and nationalistic organizations are branded  as
anti-national  and  unSecular  simply  because  they  oppose  statism  of the
congress party and Congressy brand of  Secularism.  All  anti-national,  pan-
Islamic,  pro-imperialistic and neo-colonial organizations are judged nation-
alistic and Secular simply because they support Congress, statism  and  their
brand  of  Secularism. This is the rough anatomy of the current confrontation
between negative Secularism and positive Secularism. Secularism  is  insecure
and has to resort to violence mainly because Ayodhya issue has brought out in
open the inherent contradictions & anti-Hindu and anti-national agenda of the
negative Secularism. Secularism in its current form can not and will not sur-
vive much longer in India. Its anti-Hindu animus has to go. Only  then  India
will  have  a  Secularism that is both viable and secure that do not need the
alliances with street riots or fascists supressions  to  surive.  Because  it
will  then have the support of the masses. Instead of remaining a cult of the
politicians,Secularism will become a mass movement and an unalienable reality.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 18:50:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Nidhi Srinivas <SRINIVAS@Management.McGill.CA>
Subject: Some submission suggestions i heard about

hi netters
you may be reassured to know that many other nets are also occasionally beset
with acrimony and overindulgence in issues that have been already flogged
dry... the following suggestions (given by another person on a different net i
subscribe to) may be of relevance to us on india-d!
 >      a. Remember that the debate is public and as such, any discussion should
 > be addressed to the audience and not the other party.  Directing the debate
 > to the other by use of their name or of the personal pronoun 'you,' belittles
 > the audience.
 >      b.  To the audience, any personal attack relects more on the
 > attacker that the intended victim.  Although it is difficult, I sugget that
 > debaters not respond to attacks, other than to point out that
 > one was made.  The audience only cares about the quality of the argument, not
 > judgements about character.
 >     c.  The same is true of self-references.  While it is pleasant in a
 > verbal conversation to share personal information, it degrades the audience
 > who is taking the time to read a debate.  Personal information may have its
 > place elsewhere.  I am not urging that we dehumanize the discussion.  But
 > while verbal conversation can shift context rapidly, written ones require
 > demarcation of issues so that the audience can choose its topics.
 >     d. Strong adjectives, while giving color to verbal conversation, are
 > amplified when written and read as if they were shouted.  For instance, if I
 > said that the rhetoric used was childish, it would read as, "what you are
 > saying is CHILDISH" or even worse, "you are a CHILDISH debater."  Despite the
 > informality of bitnet, it is a written medium that shares this trait.
 >      e.  Debates often become repetitive and personal after the first
 > reply. If the arguments are worthwhile, then third parties will add points to
 > the discussion.  I suggest that as a general rule, we only reply once to a
 > criticism.  Let others defend or criticise the points thereafter until
 > the subject changes.  For instance, my impression was that Frank's initial
 > comment to Bhatia was a friendly criticism mainly aimed at requesting
 > clarification.  Bhatia apparantly thought the comment derogatory, or at least
 > that is how I interpreted the response. As the debaters were misunderstanding
 >  each other, further interaction only increased the confusion.
 >      f. Finally, keep it short and do not be pedantic, both of which I
 > apologise for failing to follow.

 ...wish i had written that! (Frank and Bhatia are two people on the original
 net who were involved in a slightly intense argument...they're not the only
 ones eh?!)

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 08:00:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Samit Banerjee <banerjee@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: The Balasore Test Range and India's missile program

sr3u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shrisha Rao) wrote:
>Does anyone know the latest about the missile range planned to come up
>in Balasore in Orissa ?
        The Balasore Range is fully functional and as far as I know, all Agni
launches last year (including the one scheduled for March this year) will
take place from that site. The ostensible target has been somewhere
in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, within India's territorial waters.
>that is certain to occur in faraway Antarctica when our missiles start
>impacting near the south pole is not even mentioned.
        Environmental concerns aside, Agni is a Intermediate Range Ballistic
missile (IRBM) and it's current range does not exceed 3500 miles. To even
think that such a system can deliver a payload to the Antarctic continent
is to be blissfully unaware of the rules of physics and dynamics. In other
words, by the Agni's current standards, it will fall far short of impacting
Antartica.  This is ofcourse assuming a land based launch site for the
missile. It is another matter altogether, if India decides to go in for a
submarine launched version. A report in India Today couple of months ago
envisioned such a possibility.
>bull's eye for our Agnis (or whatever the latest ICBMs are called) would
>definitely be a violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of the
        In my opinion, India's missile program is largely regional and for the
most part confined to the Asian continent.  Under the circumstances, an ICBM
may not be required or developed by India, since the Agni's potential
targets fall within it's current range.
>really need to spend hundreds of millions on nuclear warfare systems, at
>a time when the world is finally showing signs of coming off of the
        The Agni technology is a spin-off from our sattelite launch vehicles
(SLV and now ASLV) and other than development of the materials which protect
the payload from friction during re-entry, there was very little spent on
actual development of the missile technology.
        Your claim that a post cold war world, is acknowledging the rationale
behind nuclear detente, flies in the face of reason. A look around the
world will tell you that the number of 'nuclear states' has increased to
include Pakistan, Ukraine and Tjakisthan with North Korea, Iran, Brazil and
Argentina and until recently Iraq trying to accquire nuclear and/or missile
technology any which way they can.
        In such a volatile scenario, the only way for India to protect her
genuine interests would be through nuclear deterrence and not the kind of
submissive pacifism that you advocate.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 09:46:39 -0600 (CST)
From: VPILLAI@vms.ucc.okstate.edu
Subject: Visiting India during EAD

Hi,
Is it safe to go to India when I am in my EAD ? Can anyone
help me in this regard. And also I like to know about getting
a H2 visa from India, how hard is it to get?

It will be really helpful if someone answer this question.

Thanks
V Pillai.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jan 1993 18:54:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Prasad@biologysx.lan.nrc.ca
Subject: Words of Swami Vivekanda    Part-II

(This is the second and LAST, I PROMISE, of the excerpts from the works of
Swami Vivekanda. Publishers:Advaita Ashrama, Calcutta.)
***"Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this divine
within, by controlling nature,external and internal...by work, or worship,
or psychic control...and be free. This is the whole of religion. Doctrines,
or dogmas, or rituals, or books or temples are but secondary details".
***"Do you feel? Do you feel that MILLIONS ARE STARVING TODAY..that IGNORANCE
HAS COME OVER THE LAND AS A DARK CLOUD? does it make you restless,
...sleepless? Has it gone into your blood, coursing through your veins,
becoming consonant with your heart beats? Has it made you almost mad? Are you
seized with that one idea of the misery of ruin, and have you forgotten all
about your name,fame...your own bodies? Have you done that? THAT IS THE FIRST
STEP TO BECOME A PATRIOT. THE VERY FIRST STEP".
***"COME, BE MEN, Come out of your narrow holes...SEE HOW NATIONS ARE ON THE
MARCH. Do you love man ? Do you love your country? Then come, let us struggle
for higher and better things. LOOK NOT BACK, NO, NOT EVEN if you see the
dearest and nearest cry. LOOK NOT BACK, BUT FORWARD."
"***"With all my love for India, and with all my patriotism and veneration
for the ancients, I cannot but think that we have to learn many things from
other nations...We cannot do without the world outside India; it was our
foolishness we thought we could, and we have paid the penalty by about a
thousand years of slavery. That we did not go out to compare things with
other nations, did not mark the workings that have been all around us, has
been the one great cause of this degradation of the Indian mind. We have paid
the penalty; let us do it no more."
***"I consider that the great national sin is the neglect of the masses, and
that is one of the causes of our downfall. No amount of politics would be of
any avail until the masses in India are once more WELL EDUCATED, WELL FED,
AND WELL CARED FOR".
***"EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION ALONE! Travelling through many cities of
Europe and observing in them the comforts and education of even the poor
people, there was brought to my mind the state of our own people, AND I USED
TO SHED TEARS. What made the difference? EDUCATION-WAS THE ANSWER I GOT.
Through education comes faith in ones's self and through faith in one's own
self the inherent Brahman is waking up in them".
***"Keep the motto:'ELEVATION OF THE MASSES WITHOUT INJURING THEIR RELIGION."
***"DO NOT TRY TO LEAD YOU BRETHREN, BUT SERVE THEM. THE BRUTAL MANIA FOR
LEADING HAS SUNK MANY A GREAT SHIP IN THE WATERS OF LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
....Let us pay attention to his words before we say or do anything, before we
claim ourselves to be worthy of our country..................(Krishna Prasad)

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End of India Interest Group Digest
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