HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Clinton Policies (was: Re: Legalized Theft)
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:26:02 GMT

In <21630@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

>Employees are like anything else that an employer buys.  If the employer
>wants to buy a good quality copying machine, the employer is likely to
>pay a large sum of money - for the simple reason that quality copying
>machines are in shorter supply than cheap ones that break.  And if supply
>doesn't explain it, then demand surely does - people want a GOOD copier
>much moreso than a bad one.

This much is true, at least on a simplistic level.

>So what we have is an environment in which MANY people have the ability
>to teach, and teachers are a plentiful commodity.  The evidence of this
>the low wage that teachers are able to command versus other 4 and 5
>year degreed professionals.  Supply and demand - a plentiful supply of
>teachers will always drive the price down.

This bit tends to be false, and the reasoning here needs to be looked
at a bit more closely.  Teaching, at least in this century, tended to
be one of those 'female dominated' professions (like nursing, etc.).
The classically female occupations have traditionally been lower-paid,
for good economic reasons.  Women in the past tended to move in and
out of the workforce in the process of raising their families and
such, so jobs which were disproprotionately held by women tended to be
lower paid because the employer could expect the employee to NOT make
a 'full career' out of it.  Thus, there were always new people moving
in to fill jobs that were vacated by women who had dropped out of the
labor force for the next dozen years or so.  With no 'buildup' in
seniority, wages stay low.  In the event today, those lower wages
mitigate against many of the 'best and brightest' going into
professions like teaching, and so quality of the 'average' teacher
suffers.  Bureaucratic mis-administration also plays a part in driving
out the teachers who are actually good at what they do.

This is, of course, the simplistic version of the reasons why
traditionally female jobs are lower paid, but I hope it will at least
make it clear that 'supply and demand' in the simplistic sense are not
the only forces acting in the market.  It also helps explain things
which would otherwise have to be viewed as anomalous, such as the fact
that there is a shortage of nurses, yet the payscales remain
relatively low (with the exception of 'contract nursing', which tends
to be quite expensive from the employer side).

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: READING:  STUDY FINDS U.S. COMPARES WELL TO OTHER NATIONS
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 15:07:25 CDT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Radio Amateur k5qwb

curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072) writes:

> 
> *10  READING:  STUDY FINDS U.S. COMPARES WELL TO OTHER NATIONS

>      Nine-year-olds in the U.S. ranked only behind Finnish
> students on the test.  And American 14-year-olds were
> outperformed slightly by Finland, Sweden and New Zealand.

Sounds like the test was given in English. :-)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 
73,            internet     | lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org
Lyn Kennedy    packet radio | K5QWB @ N5LDD.#NTX.TX.US.NA
               pony express | P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154

-------------- "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Pogo --------------
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: READING:  STUDY FINDS U.S. COMPARES WELL TO OTHER NATIONS
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:58:49 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX


*10  READING:  STUDY FINDS U.S. COMPARES WELL TO OTHER NATIONS
     U.S. students rank near the top in reading compared to other
nations, according to an international study of reading
proficiency (Manning, USA TODAY).  The study was conducted by the
International Association for the Evaluation of Education
Achievement, based at The Hague, Netherlands.
     Alan Purves of State U-N.Y./Albany, the study's U.S.
director, said it was based on a test given last year to 210,000
9- and 14-year-olds in 31 countries.
     Nine-year-olds in the U.S. ranked only behind Finnish
students on the test.  And American 14-year-olds were
outperformed slightly by Finland, Sweden and New Zealand.
     Purves said the study is no surprise, since in reading, "our
students have always been quite good."  According to USA TODAY,
he said elementary teachers in the U.S. "spend a lot of effort
getting kids to read."
     Francie Alexander of the U.S. DoEd said the test "shows kids
are getting the basics" but did not test "for the depth of
understanding we look for."  Alexander:  "This is OK for the
'80s, but for the '90s and beyond, kids are going to have to do
better."
     The study also found:  U.S. students were good at prose but
weaker on maps and charts; girls performed better than boys in
all countries but two; and up to 3+ hours a day of TV has little
effect on reading, but more is detrimental (9/29).

--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: kossack@owlnet.rice.edu (Jordan Marc Kossack)
Subject: Re: Chinascam
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Reply-To: kossack@qvi.com
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: tx
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:08:48 GMT

In article <RBH6RB3w165w@korova.uucp> popec@korova.uucp (Mr. Charlie) writes:
- Rantings!  I would rather be accused of ranting than being ignorant like 
- you are!  Actaully I do not give a fuck about all you neocons who are too 
- damned foolish to see how yrer precious Republican Presidents have 

	Nope, no rantings here.    :-)   

-- 
 Jordan M Kossack  |  "From each according to his naivete, 
  kossack@qvi.com  |   to each according to his greed"  
  +1 713 240 2073  |                         -- Jeff Orrok
From: gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Prove it!
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:46:22 CDT
Organization: Ham Radio Operator, Houston Tex.

jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:

> In article <1992Sep28.212621.26756@NeoSoft.com> rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullal
> >	Furthermore, why not let John's style work against him, as it should?
> 
> You mean, my style of documenting what I post?  Or my style of not having
> any tolerance for idiots?  I'm not sure which style you are referring to
> and why that style will, or should, work against me ...

 I susect only you, John, and perhaps Fred, failed to understand 
this comment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI - 
                      gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Exculpatory, a nifty little word that meant confuse
           the hell out of the jurors. -- Stephen Coonts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
From: judy@technology.com (Judy McMillin)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:54:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

In article <7434@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.131343.18327@technology.com> richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy) writes:
>[about importing Chinese or Russian programmers at bargain basement prices]
>
>
>...and if you think you can get an experienced MVS type from overseas, and get
>him to the US, and through immigration (including convincing the INS that
>there isn't someone local you can hire to fill the job acceptably), and
>settled, for what I'm getting paid, then have at it.
>-- 


	I think you're missing the point, Jay.  These people don't
	have to come here to do the kind of work being discussed.
	They can do it from many places throughout the world and
	never set foot in Texas.  The point being made is that, you
	don't seem to mind other people's jobs being sent "overseas"
	because you feel quite secure in your high-tech job. Well,
	nothing's high tech for long.  My granddaughter was using
	a computer at school in first grade.


	People probably thought lighting a fire was high-tech at
	one time.  

	Did anyone see 60 Minutes last night (9/27).  There was
	a segment about the gov't actually subsidizing US companies
	for sending their manufacturing/assembling/etc. overseas.
	Gov't subsidies is a thinly-disguised word describing the
	money we pay in taxes.  Nobody disagreed that this is
	being done, but the Republicans don't see anything wrong
	with the policy. Now, it's one thing to send foreign
	countries our money, but our jobs too? What next?

		Bye, Judy.
From: ldillard@digi.lonestar.org (Lawrence Dillard)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Quality of Public Education.
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:49:19 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1503@airgun.wg.waii.com> miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>As the son of two public school teachers, I can tell you that one thing that is hurting
>public education is the immense amount of paperwork they have to do as required by the 
>state. They say that there is very little time left to actually teach anything anymore. 
>It gets harder and harder every year just to do their jobs, what with all the paper they
>have to wade through.
>
>Big government hurts efficiency.

Along this same line, according to my sister, who is a speech pathologist in
the public schools in a rural Arkansas town, after 12 years of Gov. Clinton
she now has to have an assistant to help fill out all the paperwork.  Note
that I _didn't_ say help teach the hearing and speech-imparred children.  No
they now must come _after_ the paperwork!

-Tom

-- 
--
 L.T. Dillard                         ldillard@digi.lonestar.org
 DSC Communications Corporation
 1000 Coit Rd, MS 120, Plano Tx 75075
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
From: richard@technology.com (Richard Murphy)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:32:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

In article <21664@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>In article <7464@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>People that make this comment don't understand the nature of the job. Systems
>>programmers need to be next to the machine.
>
>As I stated, in the case of MVS, sitting next to my 386/PC at home is
>as close to a S/370 as I have to be in order to do "systems programming".
>Only recently did I throw out my 3x5 cards for doing obscene things to
>virtual machines.  And I did all of those things from a PS/2 running AIX.
>
>>If my job _could_ be sent overseas cheaper and just as effectively, I'd have
>>to live with that. Union steelworkers who have priced their jobs at five times
>>the going rate on the world market are in for a very harsh dose of reality: a
>>job isn't worth more money just because you coerce an employer into paying
>>more for it. At some point, he'll find a cheaper alternative.
>
>Systems programming =can= be done cheaper and just as effectively overseas.
>
[stuff deleted]

I didn't get rid of the people who work for me and contract the work to the
Chinese because I know and like my co-workers. However, someone above me, if they ever
received the same brochure, might not feel the same.

As for free trade, too much of it smacks of exploitation. Why not pay the Mexicans
a higher wage than the local norm, which still be cheaper than here? These
people would have more to spend and maybe buy some American products, etc, etc.
Henry Ford realized that if his own workers could not afford to buy what they
made, the market would always be self-limiting. Think about the Mexicans in the
same way, unless you just want an endless supply of cheap labor....
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5842 alt.politics.clinton:8444
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Good Teachers in Public Schools (Was Re: Clinton ... (was Re: Th
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:02:56 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <NHa5RB4w165w@unkaphaed.UUCP> popec@unkaphaed.UUCP (William C. Barwell) writes:
>It sure is a wonder how John can be so ticked at Clinton's picyune lies 
>and be so placid in the face of the flurry of lies told by Lying George 
>Bush.
>    Iranscam
>    Iraqscam
>    Chinascam
>    Taxes
    
Iranscam -
	There has been no credible proof that Bush had anything to
	do with "Iranscam", or even that "Iranscam" was illegal.  Bear
	in mind that Reagan, as President of the United States, had
	the authority to conduct whatever "Arms for Hostages" trades
	he felt like.
Iraqscam -
	Bearing in mind the adage "The Enemy of our enemy is our friend",
	selling arms to Iraq made sense at one point in time.  However,
	whether or not it made sense, the US was NOT the principal arms
	supplier to Iraq.  The US was not fighting against American
	warplanes or tanks - those were Soviet models.
Chinascam -
	Huh?
Taxes -
	Bush does not have the constitutional authority to raise, or
	for that matter lower, taxes.

All in all I'd say you need to re-read that Constitution.  Bush is not
the president of a major corporation.  He is one third of the system of
checks and balances.  And after the last 4 decades, he is the third that
has the LEAST power.

>A huge chunk of my income is subtracted out of every paycheck I recieve.
>This is supposed to be set aside for when I retire.  Yet Bush with 
>astroke of a pen turned this into a tax.  $300 billions have to date been 
>stolen by Bush out of the Socuial Security Trust Funds,  Bush is a thief 
>too.

Go read Article I, Section VII.  It is obvious from your rantings that
you haven't.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Are High Tech jobs secure?
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep29.150829.13986@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806) writes:
>High tech careers, (perhaps not jobs,) most certainly are secure.  
>High wage brainless steel worker jobs are gone.  Mostly thanks to
>programmers like the ones here and in Germany and Japan.

No, the "high wage brainless steel worker jobs" are STILL here and will
continue to be here.  However, those jobs that can be done in Germany or
Japan for less money will continue to move overseas.

There is one very simple way to stop the trades from leaving and that is
improve the productivity of our workers.  Much welding is still done by
hand when machines are quite plentiful and do a wonderful job.  But the
unions get in the way by forcing the companies to hire a certain number
of trades people ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: The blame game
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:17:29 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: usa,tx
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Oct5.102643.16802@montagar.com> davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
>	I think per worker the Japanese are.  This is mostly because of an
>almost religious dedication to the corporation, something which we don't
>have anymore... (I've jumped jobs twice, so I plead guilty too...).

Nope, it's not just my musings.  American workers are #1 in per worker
productivity (or something closely related to that ...)  We have been
#1 for years and it hasn't changed recently.  In fact, a number of
companies are now re-discovering this fact and bringing American jobs
back to America.
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Obnoxious DC teachers
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:45:21 GMT
Reply-To: curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072)
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin, TX



                    =====  FRONTLINES  =====

*5   EDITORIAL:  D.C. SCHOOL PRACTICES "OFFENSIVE" TACTICS
     The WASH. POST criticizes teachers at D.C.'s Woodrow Wilson
H.S. for telling parents to lobby city officials for higher pay
if they want college recommendations written for their children.
The POST says it is "truly amazing to observe the staying power
of stupid ideas."  It calls the tactic "as repugnant today as it
was last year," when some teachers at a school in Montgomery
County, Md., took the same action (See DRC 11/7/91).
     The POST quotes a letter to parents, which it called an
"unquestionably offensive tactic."  The letter reads:  "Please
submit to each teacher from whom your child is requesting a
college recommendation your letters to your City Council member,
the Superintendent, and your School Board member along with three
addressed and stamped envelopes.  At that point we will be happy
to complete and send in the recommendation."
     The POST also quotes Delabian Rice-Thurson, exec. director
of Parents United, who said:  "I'm really angry that people would
use a basic function of being a high school teacher, writing
these school recommendations, as a way to hammer at parents."
The POST writes that "parents should hammer right back by
summarily rejecting this outrageous quid pro quo."
     The newspaper writes:  "For teachers to use this dependent
relationship as leverage to extract something to their own
advantage from students and their parents is so professionally
out of line as to raise the question of why these teachers are
even on the payroll." (10/2)

--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |       Austin, TX
 -Public school administration has gone from 15% to 30% of expenses since 1960-
Xref: sparky tx.politics:5706 alt.politics.clinton:7453
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Clinton Policies (was: Re: Legalized Theft)
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:39:53 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1a5okcINN791@agate.berkeley.edu> lazarus@ocf.berkeley.edu (Andrew J. Lazarus) writes:
>Reference please? I don't believe it.
>
>John Haugh II mangles almost 100% of all statistics. I believe the
>number is closer to 97%, but I'm sure you get the idea.

Reference was provided earlier this year.  If you'd stay in California
and keep your unemployed and vindictive nose out of Texas, you wouldn't
be troubled by such matters.

I will not repost every piece of news I ever wrote every six months so
some guy who is out to prove that everything I write is a lie "including
``and'' and ``the''".  I believe that is the exact quote from Lillian
Helman you used.

Now, run along and go find yourself a job before I turn you in to the
unemployment people out there in California.  Shouldn't you be looking
for work or something?
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Pro-life vs. Pro-abortion
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:13:17 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Sep25.152526.30182@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti) writes:
>I'm starting to understand your confusion now.  "Readable" in this
>context means "detectable", not "differentiable".

Probably so.  Fred's reading comprehension is pretty damned close to
zero as it is.  But just so Fred can see it again (this being about
the sixth or seventh time now ...), here is the line in question -

	40 days		The baby's brain waves can be detected,
			recorded, and even read by a doctor.

This doesn't say what "read" means, but then Fred's assertion is that
the brain isn't even producing "brain waves" since the brain isn't
there yet.

What is interesting is the next one -

	8 weeks		The fetus now looks like a little human baby.
			Fetus in Latin means "young one" or "offspring".
			It now has muscles, and cartilage that will soon
			change into true bone.  Movement begins, although
			the mother won't feel it for another few weeks.
			For several weeks now the baby has been capable
			of feeling pain; it can even be taught conditioned
			response.

[ NB: this is 8 weeks after conception ]

Ain't got no brain, sure can't feel no pain ...
-- 
John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
From: susan@korova.uucp (Susan)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Chinascam
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 21:55:14 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

popec@korova.uucp (Mr. Charlie) writes:

> Chinascam - 
>         Huh?
> 
> John F. Haugh II
> 
> Chinascam.
> 
> Some years back, a CIA analyst was tracking missles being shipped from 
> China to Iran.  This was the tip of an Iceberg.  China was selling 
> Missles, Nuclear Waeopn Technology nad Biochem Technology to Iran, a 
> terrorist state involved with holding our hostages.  Among other unsavory 
> things.  This analyst dutifuly kept his superiors informed, yet nothing 
> was ever done about this.  The Bush, Reagan adminstration did not even 
> seem to care.  Tired of beating his head against a stonewall, this 
> analyst tipped off columnist Jack Anderson.  Anderson, ever the careful
> journalist, approched some sources he had in intelligence and word got 
> back to Washington.  Anderson git a visit from the CIA and was informed 
> that even tho' it was true, he should not publish, as this would 
> compromise intelligence gathering methods and personnel.  He reluctantly 
> agreed under pressure.
  
   'Scuse me, is that meant as a crack about Anderson?  Hope so as he is 
well known as one who does not check facts -- several articles have been 
published on this for those of your who don't, as I do, know anyone on 
his staff.  The guy is and has been cruising on reputation -- not that 
this point refutes your post, but, it makes me wonder about who you 
consider trustworthy.  If you quote Paul Harvey, I won't read any more of 
your messages.


--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton