HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Search for Noah's Ark
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:28:37 GMT
Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co.

In article <1992Jul20.230347.8366@acuson.com- lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) writes:
-In article <35813@sdcc12.ucsd.edu- slinke@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Steven Linke) writes:
--Has anybody seen the creationist film on Noah's Ark?  I think it
--is called "In Search of Noah's Ark" or "The Search for Noah's
--Ark."  It was made in the mid to late 70s.
-
-I think I saw that.  At least I saw something from that time with a
-similar title.  I think it must have been different because the
-conclusions reached were that the "arc" on the mountain was an early
-(10th century?) shrine built by some monks and long forgotten by most.
-I seem to recall some meantion of carbon dating samples taken by
-earlier expeditions.  These confirmed the later date.  At the time,
-Turkey was not allowing any expeditions to the arc site, so they (the
-movie) said that little more could be done.

It was shown here a few weeks ago. They showed film of the guy in the 50's
who found the wood on Ararat. They took it to be carbon dated and as you
say was found not to be 6000 years old but more like 800. Then came my
favorite part: They interviewed an "expert" on carbon dating. He said
that carbon dating was notoriously unreliable, that living molloscs
show themselves to be 600 years old. So much for carbon dating. It
didn't give them the result they wanted so they rejected it. Next
they did a microscopic analysis and decided it could be 6000 years
old. So much for science.
-
-Personally, I have trouble understanding Creationists.  I believe in
-the Bible as somewhat literal history, but I don't expect archeology to
-prove it.  I would be disappointed is Noah's Arc were found as it would
-undermine faith.
-
Yes it would undermine faith. If it were found and could be proven it 
would no longer be a matter of faith but fact.

-Science claims to explain, not to know.  Many people loose track of
-that.  I accept (for example) the theory and description of
-evolutionary origin of species.  I just choose to believe that it
-didn't happen that way.  Yes, it COULD have, which is why I have no
-problem with the science.
-
Agreed, but creationism doesn't explain anything: God made everything.
End of discussion. I'd like to know how he did it.

--- 
-Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
-lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Garlic - the wonder herb ??
Keywords: garlic
Date: 20 Jul 92 23:05:49 GMT
Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA

In article <9220123.25217@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> fjh@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fergus James HENDERSON) writes:
>My flatmate and I have been arguing about the benefits of garlic as "a good
>tonic for the blood" and for "general health".
>
>Is there any evidence that garlic has any beneficial effects other than the
>placebo effect?

Well, it does gave beneficial effect on pizza. ;-)

-- 
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
From: hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Weakly World News
Date: 27 Jul 92 01:12:41 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Jul26.232327.22175@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> kachun@astro.as.arizona.edu (Ka Chun Yu) writes:

>The most famous alien has probably been the one in US Secret Service custody.
>(They showed photographs of him being hustled about by guys in suits and 
>dark sunglasses.)  He met with Ross Perot according to a WWN cover article
>several weeks back.  Is he still in the Witness Protection Program?  (Seems
>that he's been threatened by other members of his species for revealing too
>much to the Earthlings.)

While I admit this is amusing, my favorite article was one I read about ten
years ago.
We were on a road-trip and I bought WWN to pass the time. (Really.)

The headline was something like "Hitler is ALIVE" and the article explained
how he was hiding out in Argentina and was also responsible for the 'Faulklands
War'. (It was topical ten years ago)

I wish I had saved that newspaper (I use the term with a ;-), but my friends
found it so amusing that it never survived the trip.... (Ah, well. Life goes
on.)

					James Willer email to jmw1388@cs.rit.edu
{The opinions above are probably NOT those of
 Hanan Polansky. I don't know. I never asked.}
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: j.newman@qmcc.curtin.edu.au (John Newman)
Subject: Re: Radio transmission ESP test?
Organization: Computing Centre, Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:07:25 GMT

In article @ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au> u6523879@ucsvc.
ucs.unimelb.edu.au writes:

>I was wondering if anyone remembers the Science Show on Oz Radio 
>National special testing of ESP. As I recall, they had a transmission 
>test, but I never heard the results of this test. Can anyone please
>tell me what happened if they recall the events? Thanks in advance.
>John Merakovsky
>Dept Genetics
>University of Melbourne

I posted some interim results about 3 weeks ago.
About 3500 responses were processed. As I recall, only
5 responses got 2 out of 6 correct. This appeared to be
much less than would have been expected from purely random
responses. The design of some of the questions did not allow
for accurate statistical analysis.

UPDATE
------

Just last week the Chanel 9 network, "A Current Affair" ran a
copycat segment.
The ESP test was designed by Ken White, a psychologist
from Queensland Uni. Others on the TV panel were Simon Turnbull,
president of the Aust. Psychics Association, Nigell Lovell,
and Barry Williams from the Aust. Skeptics Association.

The test was similar to the ABC Science Show (also designed
by Ken White), and has the same problems.

Card 1: Contains a circle with an arrow in 1 of 4 possible
directions. (Up, Down, Left or Right)
Card 2: Shows a picture of a vegetable.
Card 3: Letter of the alphabet.
Card 4: Contains a simple geometric symbol.

Statisticians can draw some conclusions from Cards 2 and 4.

In order to respond, one had to go out and buy a copy of "The
Australian" newspaper for a reply slip.

No wonder I am a cynic as well as a skeptic!

I'll post Ch9s results if I get to see them.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 
\  John Newman                Internet: J.Newman@qmcc.curtin.edu.au      /
/  Computing Centre,                                                     \
\  Curtin University,        "There is less to this than meets the eye." /                         
/  Perth,  Western Australia          - Tallulah Bankhead                \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: spont. human combustion
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:13:08 GMT
	<rdippold.711677718@cancun>
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com's message of 21 Jul 92 00:15:18 GMT

>>>>> On 21 Jul 92 00:15:18 GMT, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) said:
Ron> Nntp-Posting-Host: cancun.qualcomm.com

Ron> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.170921.11330@schbbs.mot.com> RXTL20@WACCVM.corp.mot.com writes:
>>
>>The Phx Republic and Gazette recently mentioned that the drummer for some
>>heavy metal band had spontaneously combusted on stage a few years back.
>>Sorry, forgot the band's name, but they were here in concert a few months
>>ago.

>That would be the band Spinal Tap. I have no idea if it really happened
>or not, but it was a running gag in a movie about the band.

FYI, they are a parody "band" like Weird Al Yankovich for Heavy Metal.
 
Ron> It's completely a joke, the idea being (as you saw in the movie) that
Ron> all their drummers die a horrible death quickly.

I think the reason they wrote this in was as a subtle reference to Keith
Moon of The Who and John Bonham of Led Zeppelin. Both drummers for (HM
pioneering bands) that died of unnatural causes.

Ron>  I believe they
Ron> sometimes end the concert with a large explosion as the drummer
Ron> "self-combusts."  If it's Spinal Tap, it never really happened.

Yes I just rented the movie again two weekends ago. Hilarious.
--
/**************************************************************************/
/* Kent Dalton                   * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */
/* NCR Microelectronics          * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319            */  
/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A      *   FAX: (303) 226-9556                  */
/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525  *                                        */
/**************************************************************************/
Look!  A ladder!  Maybe it leads to heaven, or a sandwich!
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:13:25 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK

In article <1992Jul30.175057.9797@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:

>Well, his name was James Ussher, he was a bishop, and he lived in the 16th
>and 17th centuries (1581-1656).  And, yes, he did that, which was quite
>clever of him considering that there are a great many gaps in the biblical
>record, and, yes, an awful lot of people took him seriously.
>
>Which only goes to prove that people can be schmucks.
>
>As I recall, he came up with a specific *day* in 4004 (in June) and even
>a specific time of day, but I could be wrong about that.

According to Terry Pratchett and Niel Gaiman in "Good Omens", the good
Bishop came up with 4004 BC and an assistant later extended the
calculation to 9am Jerusalem time, 29th October.  This calculation is
inaccurate.  By almost 15 minutes :-)

This date and time (without the time zone) also made an appearance in
the film dramatisation of the Scopes Monkey trial.  Does anyone know
if this really happened?  What does the court record actually say?

Paul.
-- 
Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: CSYSPCN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (CSYSPCN)
Subject: Another thought problem.
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:24:45 PDT

Since we're doing thought problems, this is one of my favorites:

Suppose we have a cannonball, suspended over an infinit plain, by
a lightyear long piece of wire.  You cut the wire at the top, speed
of light limitations say that the cannon ball can't know that the top
has been cut for a year, so it can't start to fall for at least a year.

So the question is: What holds the cannon ball up during that time.

Answer: Ignorance!
From: u6523879@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Radio transmission ESP test?
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:55:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne

I was wondering if anyone remembers the Science Show on Oz Radio 
National special testing of ESP. As I recall, they had a transmission 
test, but I never heard the results of this test. Can anyone please
tell me what happened if they recall the events? Thanks in advance.
John Merakovsky
Dept Genetics
University of Melbourne
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: PSI - summary of book review
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:03:30 EST

In article <1992Jul29.214736.4576@news.uiowa.edu>, boyken@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Karl Boyken) writes:
> In article <1992Jul29.204138.3043@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>,
> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
> [...]
> Yes, I _am_ referring to their perceptions, and to how their perceptions are
> interpreted.  I'm not saying that anything _really_ happened, other than the
> perceptions.  And _any_ interpretation is just that, an interpretation, and
> _no_ interpretation is superior in any absolute sense--not even the much
> revered and worshipped scientific one.  In a given context, one belief system
> may have more utility than another.  I find that a belief system that tells
> me that what I've experienced isn't real has little utility.  Your own mileage
> may vary.
You can demonstrate that science works in every culture, independent of whether
you believe that it works. The rules really do help.

>> Every culture probably knows some "paranormal
>> phenomena", but not every culture knows the concept of scientific proof.
> Which proves that people can get along fine without the concept of scientific
> proof.  Which suggests that it is not superior to any other belief system in
> an _absolute_ sense.
In the current world situation, the lack of understanding of science in the US
is causing the US to fail in economic markets.  You may argue that
nonscientific beliefs are more important, but most people would like to have
the material benefits of science to support their "nonscientific" belief
systems.  (They like to sit in comfy chairs while they pontificate.)

GXKambic
standard disclaimer

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Anti-motion sickness wristbands
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:04:48 GMT
Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

In article <1992Jul22.114211.22849@cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
#>[Me]
#>Motion sickness seems to have great potential to be cured by placebo  effect.
#
#I think you're overgeneralizing the term "placebo effect" here.  I know that in
#my case, anything that distracts my attention from the scenery to the side of
#the car tends to prevent motion sickness.  This can include sitting in the front
#seat where I have a good enough view through the windshield that I don't look
#through the side windows.  Now, if all that's needed is some distraction from
#the motion, then we're not talking about a placebo effect here.  It's a placebo
#effect only if whether it works depends on whether the person believes in
#advance that it will work.

It is believed that motion sickness is caused by incongruence between the
sensory signals from the eyes and the equilibrium organ in the inner ear.
The classical remedy against it is watching anything stationary outside.
In that way, what the eye observes (motion of the own body with respect 
to the stationary scene) and what the ears feel is congruent.
This at least is the common explanation I often hear/read. It fits in with
the observation that the driver of a car rarely gets motion sickness.
I did not read about systematic experiments proving that this explanation
is correct.  Of course it conflicts with "not seeing side scenery".
Do you mean that sitting in an airplane or in a ship without being able
to see any moving scenery outside (either on the side or in front) would
stop motion sickness?  When you are not experiencing any motion, but see 
a realistic movie taken from a strongly and wildly accerelating vehicle,
you'll experience motion sickness (I believe).  Being swung around, and 
experiencing a rather constant apparent force (centripetal force), combined
with looking at the wildly gyrating surroundings, can make people also very
dizzy.
About the placebo effect: a well known drug, scopolamine was tested; it
"worked", but after comparing with a control group that had received a
placebo, the effect was less impressive. 
Other data I've to look up at home.

JWN
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: PSI - summary of book review
Date: 21 Jul 92 02:49:41 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <92199.114042DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Jon J Thaler) writes:
|egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) says:
|
|> "Parapsychology: the controversial science" by Broughton.
|> Any comments?
|
|  For example, Broughton does not take a
|position about Uri Geller's abilities as a psychic.   His discussion of
|Geller is largely an attempt to discredit James Randi.

This in itself is enough to discredit the book.  Anyone who is credulous
enough to still believe that Geller is a genuine psychic is too credulous
to right a thoughtful treatment of parapsychology.  Really, it is hardly
as if The Amazing Randi were the only person to blow awy Geller's facade!

Even *if* there is something to parapsychology other than wish fullfilment,
Uri Geller is *not* a psychic, and never was.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:13414 sci.physics:12062
From: echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics
Subject: Re: FTL images (was Re: help needed with a thought problem)
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:38:25 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

In article <1992Jul29.092058.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> ggeorge@kean.ucs.mun.ca (G.H. George) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.025114.15848@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, 
>kachun@astro.as.arizona.edu (Ka Chun Yu) writes:
>> 
>> A more interesting question of FTL communication posits an immense solid
>> spherical shell surrounding a very bright light source, e.g. a star.  (I
>> don't remember where I first read about this--anyone have a clue?)  An
>> object is made to orbit about the light source at an extremely high angular
>> velocity.  If the spherical shell is large enough and if the orbital speed
>> was high enough, one could envision that at one point, the shadow of the
>> orbiting object on the inside of the shell will be moving faster than the
>> speed of light with respect to an observer standing on the inside surface
>> of the shell.  The question then is, can this be considered some kind of
>> signal that is 'faster than light'?
>                                     - Not really, as no observers on the
>shell could use the shadow to transmit any information between them faster
>than light.
>
>Another interesting thought experiment concerns a powerful laser lighthouse
>rotating at a modest angular velocity on Earth.   If its tightly collimated
>beam is allowed to sweep across the lunar surface, then the spot can easily be
>
> (edited)
>
>x'(x,y,t) = b/(b^2 - 1) * {-[ct + d + x/b] plus or minus 
>            sqrt[ b^2 * (ct + d + x/b)^2 - (b^2 - 1)*(d + y)^2 ] ;
>
>                    y'(x,y,t) = d + y
>
>The positive root corresponds to the forward image and the negative root to the
>backward image.   The centre of the spot does not become visible until time
>t = - d/c , at which instant the image is travelling infinitely fast in both
>directions!   The angle between the velocity vector and the line of sight at
>the instant of first sight for any part of the image of the spot is
>theta = Arctan(sqrt[b^2 - 1]).
>
>It is quite an interesting exercise to verify these conclusions!
>
>G.H. George                                       ggeorge@bigvax.engr.mun.ca
>Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science
>Memorial University of Newfoundland
>St. John's,   Newfoundland
>CANADA     A1B 3X5

What factors would keep us from really
doing this experiment?  I think it would
be really neat if it were possible! The
part about seeing the two images moving
in opposite directions is really interesting
to me, although I am not able to understand
all of the technical aspects.

-Craig
echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu
-- 
--------------------
Craig Hyatt
NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA
echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu
--------------------
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: The EVE theory
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:02:12 GMT

bourd@indian.cps.msu.edu (Robert Bourdeau) writes:
: It has been sometime since I have heard much about the
: Eve theory (that all humans share a single female
: ancestor from Africa).  I don't recall any articles in the
: Skeptical Inquirer recently, or any other sources.
: 
: Does anyone have pointers to sources of information?
: 

There was a pretty decent article about that in Scientific American
(about six months ago, I think.  I'll see if I've still got that
issue).

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I wonder if I could
Rosemount Inc.                                |ever get started in the
                                              |credit world?
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Testing for "Auras"
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:25:29 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Jul21.141826.24840@ccu.umanitoba.ca> rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes:
>>I am not "seeing auras" right now?  The question is, just what information
>>does this person claim to be able to derive from the aura?

>This is exactly what we hope to test.  So far, the person has been
>fairly vague about the claims.

Vague claims lead to vague tests and vague results, which your subject
will use as "scientific" evidence in support of his claims. Don't get 
sucked into this unless you get your subject to agree to very specific
criteria before you start.
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: test that proves obes
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:05:15 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Distribution: sci
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <24203@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes in part:
[crisp, clear description of "false awakening" deleted]
|> 
|> Anyway, unless false awakenings count as OBE's, there are definitely
|> dreams that are real enough to fool the observer. It gets really
|> irritating when you get to the point that you aren't sure you're awake,
|> even when you are.
I'll certainly concede that there may be dreams that "are real enough
to fool the observer".  I think you will agree that not all dreams are 
that way, though.

I'd expect that "false awakenings" and OBEs might well be related to
each other.   

I might point out that some OBEs occur while the person is AWAKE, 
which is really, really, wierd!

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Another thought problem.
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:44:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.92Jul30104409
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU


   CSYSPCN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (CSYSPCN) says:

   > Since we're doing thought problems, this is one of my favorites:

   > Suppose we have a cannonball, suspended over an infinit plain, by
   > a lightyear long piece of wire.  You cut the wire at the top, speed
   > of light limitations say that the cannon ball can't know that the top
   > has been cut for a year, so it can't start to fall for at least a year.

   > So the question is: What holds the cannon ball up during that time.

   > Answer: Ignorance!

Sorry, wrong answer.

Gravity acts on each particle in the wire, so the minute it is cut,
the entire system will start to accelerate downwards.  


--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The story of Jesus Christ appearing after
Field Robotics Center,          | he was dead is the story of an apparition,
Carnegie Mellon University      | such as timid imaginations can always
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | create in vision, and credulity believe.
(412) 268-3856                  | Stories of this kind had been told of the
                                | assassination of Julius Caesar...
The opinions expressed are mine | Thomas Paine
and do not reflect the official | 
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
or any other organization.      | 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic