HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nstarr@amherst.edu
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst Mass.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:47:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.194314.2430@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
Dwight Joe writes:

> When one is depressed, the people with bubbly cheer like you Jenny
> almost always say, "But there's yet another road to explore
> that will surely yield something better and make you happy."
> 
> Come on.  Just how many bloody roads are there?  And do we
> have a f*cking infinite lifespan to explore all possibilities
> until we get the one that makes us happy?  Sorry babe, that's
> not the way it works.

	Although I have a poor memory, in five months of depression I have yet
to encounter anyone who has offered advice along the above lines.  More
intriguing (and disturbing) than the quibble just expressed is my observation
about the encouragement some friends _have_ offered: a number of people as old
as I have various accomplishments to their credit, and the friends were
offering sincere compliments, sometimes in abundant detail.  Those signals had
no effect.  The sounds were detected, the messages were interpreted, the words
were meaningless.  My thanks were almost always given in response, but the
hollowness and helplessness were not affected.  (Fortunately, the moods seem to
vary with time.)  The interesting phenomenon is that the offering of praise
simply turned me off.  I have no idea how many others experience similar
non-reactions.

> ... .   Depressed people are depressed because they've
> tried all j*cksh*t.  They are doers, not sloths.
> 
> It's just that everything they've tried winds up in a dead end.

	Among a group of adults over  40  years of age of my acquaintance,
a variety of approaches, from letting time take its course through various 
psychotherapies, institutionalizations, pharmaceuticals in depth, and
self-cutting have been tried, yet none felt every avenue had been pursued.
And some of these people are or were in trouble for decades.

	I guess that I am simply uneasy about generalizing too readily, even
though that is both natural and useful (when it is correct).  One cannot have a
newsgroup without some commonality of experience, but the claims made above
seem unreasonably categorical.

	In <1992Aug25.084309.22371@leland.Stanford.EDU> a similar, extreme
position is repeated: "revenge doesn't solve anything".  I am not certain just
what the author means by "revenge", but any interpretation ignores the victim,
for whom imagined as well as actual levels of, varieties of revenge may have 
considerable benefit (as well as damage).

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: quote of the day
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:39:03 GMT

The real reality is there, but everything you KNOW about "it" is in your
mind and yours to do with as you like.  Conceptualization is art, and
YOU ARE THE ARTIST.
                               --Principia Discordia, p.00054
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 01:59:50 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.001015.21620@efi.com> chrisp@efi.com (Chris Phoenix)
writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.070609.18239@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>In article <77908@ut-emx.uucp> llama@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (knobette) writes:
>>>... it's no more delusional than a the
>>>situation of a computer programmer who's stuck on a project but keeps
>>>trying to fix her old algorithm instead of finding a new one.
>>This assumes that there is actually an alternative algorithm.
>>There may not be one.
>>Suppose that one needs a sorting algorithm that can do better than
>>O(n * log(n)).  Unfortunately, it simply doesn't exist, no matter
>>how _hard_ you wish for it.
>Just in case there's no suicidal CS people out there, I'll respond
>even though our news feed is so slow.
>There is in fact an O(n) sorting algorithm.  It's called a bucket sort
>or bin sort.  You can sort any number of N-digit numbers with only N
>passes through the list.  The algorithm is even pretty simple.
>I don't know if there is a lesson here that can be applied to suicidal
>people or not.  Maybe that talking to someone else really can help,
>even if you don't think there's any hope.

The O(n) was already explained to me via e-mail by someone else.

I should note that the point which I was conveying can be brought up
to date by simply replacing O(n * log(n)) with O(n).  So,

"Suppose that one needs a sorting algorithm that can do better
than O(n).  Unfortunately, it simply doesn't exist, no matter
how _hard_ you wish for it."

We must accept reality, crappy as it might be for some of us.
Shooganai ne.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Make an ASH of yourself
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:34:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.190555.5225@eskimo.celestial.com>
alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:
 
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>    I've been trying to come up with definitions of ASH and ASHers.
>See what you think of it.  Feel free to make any additions if you
>are so inclined.
>
>===================================================================
>
>The ash party:
>   Games: pin the buckshot on the roof of your mouth
>          wrist slash relay race
>          bob for apples in ammonia - chlorine solution
>   Campfire activities: pour gasoline over self
>                        roast dynamite on a spit
>                        toast styrofoam cups and breath sweet aroma
>                        (styrene gas)
>
   Don't forget this one!  Playing chicken with speeding freight trains
  (my all time favorite).
 
euclid
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jgs1@ra.msstate.edu (jimi strickland)
Subject: I am here.
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:05:32 GMT

  Just my fall semester post, I suppose.
  I am sad to say that I have been unable to post because there is nothing
  worth following up.  My poor group is falling into boredom.
  Anyway, stay alive for a little while longer so you can see me post again.
  ha ha ha


                           Grand Overlord of ASH,

                                 jimetal
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: How to get hold of cyanide?
Keywords: turing, test, yum, yum, yum
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 01:05:31 GMT

In article <Bu09MA.364@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
thomasl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu ((thomasl)) writes:
>Final Exit being incredibly hard to come by (they just can't keep it
>on the shelves here.

The book is now available in paperback, which costs about $10.00.
It has also been updated.

>People are dying to read it), can someone please
>summarize why NOT sodium cyanide?  

The killing ability of cyanide can be unpreditable.

One possibility is calm peaceful death.  The other extreme is
excruciating pain with no death but possible organ damage.

The author of "Final Exit" does _not_ recommend cyanide.

>
>And, didn't Turing do himself in that way?

Yes, he did.

>And finally, just where the heck does one get a nice, fast acting, painless
>poison, outside of joining the C.I.A. and doing counter-intellegence work.
>...

The author of "Final Exit" mentions some sources.

Cyanide does have uses outside of suicide, and most chemists
can obtain the stuff.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Re: How to get hold of cyanide?
Summary: correction  
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 02:24:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.210003.13197@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:
>	I don't know that the Canadian Hemlock tree is anymore poisonous
>than Maple leaves (Wild Cherry leaves are another matter...)
>

	Seems I made a bad comparison... I don't know that the Canadian
Hemlock tree is anymore poisonous than the grass in your lawn.  I'm sure
if you ate a large amount of either you might get sick, but I don't
know that it would kill you.  (On the other hand, some Wild Cherry leaves
are poisonous.) 

						psycho kitten
						(AMW)

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Re: How to get hold of cyanide?
Summary:  correction...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:00:03 GMT

In article <justin.715158550@mik.uky.edu> justin@mik.uky.edu (justin sullivan) writes:

>[stuff about Henry Clay's tomb in Lexington deleted]
>   Perhaps it's ironic, perhaps just amusing.. But Henry Clay wished to
>have a very large Canadian Hemlock tree placed at the foot of the little
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

>knoll (I guess you could call it a knoll) his tomb sits on.
>   I had always wondered where I could get hemlock, and now I know.. :)

	I don't think that tree is the type of "hemlock" you were
wondering about...  There are several different plants that have the
common name "Hemlock" but not all of them are poisonous.  

	The plant Conium maculatum (poison-hemlock) is the one you
are looking for. It's a smooth, purple-spotted, hollow stemmed biennial
that grows to about 1-2 meters high and looks like wild parsley.  The
active toxin in Conium maculatum is coniine (this is what they gave
Socrates) but you can read about Coniine in the methods file.

	Hemlock Water Dropwart (also listed in the methods file) is also
quite deadly, but its toxin is cicutoxin and causes somewhat different
reactions before death. The only other plant with "Hemlock" as part of
its common name that I _know_ is poisonous is Ground-hemlock (Taxus canadensis).
It's a low shrub (a type of yew) that grows in Canada and the Northeastern
US.

	I don't know that the Canadian Hemlock tree is anymore poisonous
than Maple leaves (Wild Cherry leaves are another matter...)

					psycho kitten
					AMW
 
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: hughes@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Susan Hughes)
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Keywords: Boredom
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:32:35 GMT

This sounds like a last gasp plea for deliverance from death by boredom,
definitely the most painful way to go, IMO. I'm 99% vicarious, usually
read rather than risking posts, but don't want to see this board fade
out from lack of replies. At one time I would have faded off shortly
after reading the methods file for an entirely different reason than
shyness, but in the last few years things have improved a lot. Even
when they're not improved I've got husband and kids to consider. Back
to boredom; just for discussion here's some comments/questions:
1. After reading the methods file, was anybody else really ticked to
   find out that all those attempts involving 20-30 tranqs were doomed
   to failure and that those doses only work in movies? I had no idea
   that 50-150 would be needed! Anybody else get the feeling that God-
   the-pratical-joker only let me find out when it's no longer a going
   concern?
2. The threat of incarceration/commitment for a failed attempt always
   irked me. Favorite line from the `ASH Philosophy' post- Make suicide
   attempts a capital crime! That'll either drive the control freaks
   nuts or make them think, in thier twisted way, that they actually
   "won".
3. Back to husband and kids, anybody have thoughts on how much someone
   else's pain at losing you outweighs your right to relief from your
   own pain?
All for now. I hope this starts some discussions, or at least gives
Kali brief momentary relief.
Later,
Sue
From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: osted Recently
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:16:11 GMT
Organization: C.C.S.O.

Ahhhh, Kali.   Kali??  The post(s) to which you refer were mine. If you only
got the one whose title starts with the word "Correction!!", then indeed you
missed the crucial part.  Allow me to explain....there was a post, wherein a
certain fellow claimed that there is no place for revenge in this world, and
that it is never justified.  His reasoning is that revenge supposes the person
being inflicted with it is wholly responsible for his actions, but (sez this
person who posted), people are not wholly responsible for their actions, but
are molded by the world around them.  "Therefore" revenge is *never*
appropriate.  While i would agree if someone said revenge promotes bad karma
and is for that and other reasons *not* the option of first choice, the
reason for abstaining from revenge that he posted is not tenable.  To recap
my previous post:  "Good" people are as much influenced by the world as "bad"
people, and lots of "good" people are given alot of crap.  What distinguishes
these two types is how the *choose* *to* *act*.  However, we could go in an
infinite loop as to whether "bad" people are responsible for their actions,stil
l
, so i pointed out that if people are, as this fellow sez, not able to control
themselves, then how is one to choose to abstain from revenge?  If it is
acceptable to point to a previous experience, and so excuse oneself, as this
fellow implies, then revenge is as much a part of "this world" as pillage and
other, uh, things, and is (this is where the correction came in) as excusable
as rape.  PLEASE NOTE, i am not saying rape is acceptable (indeed, if you had
gotten the original post, i believe you'd not think i thought it ever was).
The functional word is meant to be 'as', not 'excusable'.
Neither rape nor revenge, nor any other form of violence is "justified".
But saying you can't have revenge cause the perp was himself abused some time
in the past and, poor thing, can't rise above the experience, is more than
i'll sit still for.
                             EUCLID
p.s., i'll dig up a copy of the original post i made and mail it to ya.
     Still wanna napalm me??
From: I.Rutson@bradford.ac.uk (Ian Rutson)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:53:09 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91722908@muser

alto@pegasus.com (Andrea Ostensoe) writes:

>What's this..everyone offed themselves again..sigh..doomed to
>be alone on this mortal plane.....oh well..back to the palace..
>I'm sure there must be a few tourists or ex Disney characters
>I havn't tortured yet.

>;->

>-- 
>**************************************************************************
>"I don't ask for much..just your heart on a silver platter;-)"
>						-Kali
>**************************************************************************

Hi Kali,

Still using that .sig file?  Oh dear!  It IS getting a little dated
don't you think?

No, you're not QUITE alone, I see there are still one or two postings
here, just wait until terms starts again.   As for me, I don't know if
anyone out there remembers my first post in here, all doom and gloom,
and considering suicide again.  The amout of replie I got to that one
still cheers me.

Right now, suicide isn't high on my list of priorities, it's somwhere
very low in fact.   I'm sorry if this depresses anyone, but I'm on top
of the world.  Ahhh.... it's good to be alive!

Seey'all

Ian


-- 
Ian Rutson                      |     ___     Meet Ozzie the Owl,
2nd Year Electronic Engineering |    <*,->
University of Bradford, England |    [`-']    He's got his beady eye on YOU!
i.rutson@bradford.ac.uk         |    -"-"-
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: alto@pegasus.com (Andrea Ostensoe)
Subject: Re: DEATH BY MISADVENTURE
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.001147.1595@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:
>	Well, apparently no one here is within 98 Rock's brodcasting
>radius (Baltimore radio station)...
>	
>	Now they'll probably never play "Death by Misadventure" again...
>
>	I really hate it when something this trivial eats away at me.
>
>						psycho kitten
>

hmmm I'm going to D.C. in September..perhaps I can call and request it..
*if* I remember..sounds like a song I could *relate* to..easily;-)


-- 
**************************************************************************
"I don't ask for much..just your heart on a silver platter;-)"
						-Kali
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: alto@pegasus.com (Andrea Ostensoe)
Subject: Anyone out there?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:48:36 GMT

What's this..everyone offed themselves again..sigh..doomed to
be alone on this mortal plane.....oh well..back to the palace..
I'm sure there must be a few tourists or ex Disney characters
I havn't tortured yet.

;->

-- 
**************************************************************************
"I don't ask for much..just your heart on a silver platter;-)"
						-Kali
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: uk09365@nx05.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Subject: Re: Suicide rate among male and females
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 06:53:19 GMT

In article <1314700001@igc.apc.org> James Reynolds <jreynolds@igc.apc.org>  
writes:
> 
> Does that count attempts ... or "successful" attempts?
> 
> I suspect the latter.  
> 
> From what I've heard, it's that men "succeed" more but women make more 
> attempts.
> 
> I can think of between five and ten acquaintences offhand who've made 
> suicide attempts ... about half men and half women.  But of those who
> did die none were women.

Men tend to use more lethal methods.  
Gunshot - 85% fatal in suicide attempts
Hanging - 80% fatal
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - 77% fatal
Drowning - 75% fatal

[my interest is in the relationship between gun availability
 and suicides, I don't remember from which particular article
 the above statistics come.]

Women tend to take an OD of sleeping pills or something
like that, and end up just puking a lot.  Even when they
use more potentially lethal means, they do it in less
lethal ways.  For example, women who shoot themselves tend
to do aim the gun at their abdomen or chest, whereas men
tend to aim the gun at their temple or stick it in their
mouths.

Women also seem to be more concerned about post-mortem
appearances.  This is supposedly a major reason why they
don't shoot themselves in the head.  Its not uncommon
for a woman to leave a suicide note with special detailed
instructions to her family / her embalmer / etc. about how
she wants to look and be dressed in her casket.

On a related note.  In ancient Athens (?) there was an
epidemic of copycat suicides by young women who were
hanging themselves.  The governing council issued an
edict that any girl who hanged herself would be
stripped naked - except for the rope around her neck -
and dragged nude through the city streets.  The
suicides stopped.

Robert K.

ps. for those interested.  I'm looking over the recent
King County, WA / Shelby County, TN study.  The authors
appear to have been motivated by the fact that their
earlier study (King County and Vancouver, BC) found no
evidence that greater gun availability produced higher
suicide rates (except among young males).



 
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: hass@mprgate.mpr.ca (Calvin Hass (CS Shad Valley Student))
Subject: Re: Current Results of the Poll about Life after Death
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 18:21:09 GMT

You write:

  P.S.
  One person wrote, "Yes, I request it [anonymity].  (Reading a.s.h is not
  exactly something to put on your C.V. :-))"  What does "C.V." stand for?

FYI, C.V. is probably referred to as one's Curriculum Vitae, and I think
that it is probably understandable why someone would not particularly
want to mention reading ASH as a hobby.  Some people may get a different
impression of you if you did.
-Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (wedge)
Subject: Re: quote of the day
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 19:36:06 GMT

In article <1684CBFF7.EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

|The real reality is there, but everything you KNOW about "it" is in your
|mind and yours to do with as you like.  Conceptualization is art, and
|YOU ARE THE ARTIST.

|                               --Principia Discordia, p.00054
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				  serious?  damn - need to look into
				  that whole "BoB" thing a little
				  more....

Anyway, as far as the quote goes - I think it's wonderful....Reality
isn't really real (I'll put a trademark on that line, if noone objects
:)...Your reality is what you make it....This is along the same lines
as my philosophy:  your reality is based around you, so do what you
want with your life....  

When you get right down to it, this makes the whole idea of community
and society a lot more useless than the emphasis we put on it today...
(ie:  Family Values and shit like that)...Rights of the individual
above all else (unless an act inflicts on the rights of another
individual, of course) - goes hand in hand with the right to kill
yourself.... 

ObASH:  I haven't read this newsgroup in awhile....School starts
tomorrow... Wonder if there's a any connection.... Haveta put on some
Morissey sometime soon, and get back to lonely nights of homework and
depressing poetry....See ya at finals!

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday