HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:15:33 EDT
From: <SIMCOEE@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: misc.int-property
Subject:    Legal status of Preamble

OK - here is another question from a budding patent agent.

What is the legal status of the Preamble to an independent claim?

More specifically, can a limitation to the claim described in the
preamble serve to narrow the protection to the text following the
word "comprising"

More specifically, if the preamble says "a system for interfacing
a standard telephone to a radio transceiver comprising" and the means
listed do not include a standard telephone - can the protection of
the "system" be broadened to include interfaces for non-standard
telephones? (whatever that means).

More specifically, if the disclosure describes a system for interfacing
a standard telephone with a radio transceiver, can the independent claims
support something "more" if the limitation is only listed in the
preamble?

I hope that I have phrased the question properly.  I look forward
to your responses.  Thank you.

Elliott Simcoe
Newsgroups: misc.int-property,misc.legal.computing
From: bhayden@teal.csn.org (Bruce Hayden)
Subject: Re: Look and Feel Infringement (was: Interface monopolies)
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:41:59 GMT

tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.184022.22163@fcom.cc.utah.edu>, terry@cs.weber.edu (A 
>Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>> "Look and feel" is a direct result of an attempt to extend the protection
>> granted in a copyright to effectively produce a "software patent", or at
>> least the equivalent. 

Unfortunately, look and feel C/R is invariably much broader than patent 
protection. Additionally, the C/R is never examined.

>"Look and Feel" did not originate with software copyright.  It originated in 
>a case where Sid and Marty Kroft sued McDonald's for producing television 
>commercials with the same "look and feel" as (but no literal copying of) the 
>Kroft TV shows like "H.R. Puffenstuff".  It's not a result of an attempt to 
>effectively produce a software patent.

I do not agree with your logic. Yes, the concept was not invented just
for software. But that is where it is the most insidious. I believe 
that that is partially because of the nature of the medium. Few
media have as much difference between the literal aspects and the
"look and feel". Two programs may look and feel almost identical, yet
have _no_ similarities in their literal embodiment. This is not the
case with most media. For example, in order to get the same feel
from two books, there is invariably some identifiable literal copying.
This need not be the case with software, and almost never is. Note
the (in?)famous look and feel software cases: Lotus v. Paperback,
Lotus v. Borland, Gates v. Bando, etc. There was never _any_ 
"literal" copying of the _protected_ source code.

I believe that Look and Feel is so dangerous primarily because it is
so easy and so broad. You need not register the work until you decide
to go to court (as was done by Gates Rubber in Gates v. Bando). 

The Gates v. Bando case is illustrative of the problems:
1) the plaintiff did not register until the day before filing suit.
2) the plaintiff did not mark his works until at least 4 years
   after the alleged infringement. (Note - pre Berne work)
3) The primary similarities between the two works were functional.
   The main thing that Bando did was to hire away a Gates employ
   to create a work that did the same thing in somewhat the same
   manner.

The Lotus cases are troubling on a slightly different level. 
Lotus is obviously trying to do in the courts what it cannot do
in the marketplace. A defacto standard had grown up. Companies
like Borland did not feel that they could operate without being
compatable with the millions of 123 macros out there. They also
probably couldn't get in the door in corporate America if the
corporations were facing the retraining costs of converting spreadsheets.
(actually, several people have suggested that Gates went after 
Bando for purely competitive reasons, having nothing to do with
the programs at issue in the suit). 

Bruce Hayden
bhayden@csn.org
(303) 758-8400
From: paul.westley@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul Westley) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: IS TRI-STATE MAIL ORDER D
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:11:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591
Reply-To: paul.westley@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul Westley) 

Glad you should ask.  I once ordered a Toshiba VCR from them.  They sent
one that was obviously used - the foam packing was all broken, the VCR
was dusty, IT HAD THE WRONG REMOTE.  It was an incredible hassle to get
my money back - first they wouldn't return my calls, so then I started
calling the 800 sales number and they wouldn't put me through, so I
called the 800 number 10 times in ten minutes and explained this was
costing them a fortune (from CA to NY), so they finally got the manager,
and I finally got a return number.  I then had to ship it back ($27 with
insurance) and then had to keep calling again for my refund, which I
finally got minus the $27, so I had to start all over again until I
finally got paid.  So, no, I wouldn't trust them for a minute.
Sorry if this isn't E-MAIL, I don't know how to do that - an E-mail post
telling me how would be much appreciated.

         
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:18954 alt.drugs:18190
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:07:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


The biggest doctor ripoff is emergency room treatment. I went into
the Huntington Memorial Hospital in Pasadena, CA with a sprained ankle.
Emergency room charges, X-ray charges, and a separate charge for the
physician to glance at the X-ray, say "It's just a sprain" and splint it
($300) ran to almost $1000.

The second time that happened, I went to my orthopedist--by some
accounts the best man in Beverly Hills. He did x-rays in the office,
spent considerably more time than the emergency room physician,
provided a much better newer technology "air splint" was much more
experienced and famous in his field, and the total bill was $300.


-- 
David Sternlight
(pgp 2.0 and ripem public keys available on request)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.fitness,misc.misc
From: younger@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted on Home Workout Equipment
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:29:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.121923.107@janus.arc.ab.ca>, erkamp@JANUS.ARC.AB.CA (Bob Erkamp) writes:
> In article <1992Nov10.014830.3391@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
> 
>>Please, I'd still like to get recommendations as to workout equipment.
>>
> 
> I seem to recall that one of the consumer mags stated that if you are looking 
> for one piece of equipment that a rowing machine was the way to go. Just my
> $.02.
> 
> Bob

    I bought a concept II rowing ergometer this past January and cancelled
  my health club membership.  It's great.  I work out ~45 minutes on it
 almost every day and this is the best I've felt in years.  I actually look
 forward to the workout after work.  It helps to crank up the stereo. 

                      jwy
From: nan@ertou.UCSC.EDU (Nan Ellman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: DiDi7 (?) stain remover
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:47:19
Organization: /u/nan/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ertou.ucsc.edu



Does anyone know if the super stain remover advertised on late night
tv (I think it's called DiDi7) is any good? Can it deal with ink
stains of the sort from capless pens left in pockets? If so, where
could I find it? Does it have to be bought mail order?


Thanks,

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Nan Ellman <nan@helios.ucsc.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: auidcc@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Cadilac Service "hotline" number?
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:09:26 GMT
Organization: Auburn University, AL

Does anyone have a phone number for resolution of Cadilac service problems?

Steve
From: paul's.friend@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul'S Friend) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: SANTRON 5 OF 5
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591
Reply-To: paul's.friend@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul'S Friend) 

Santron, Part V of V: The Nightmare Ends (almost).

     And so, fellow computer buyers, you would think that that
would be the end of this little tale, but alas no.  Santron
ignored the request to pay up the $2529.00 they owed and my
friend had to start a whole new legal process to get the money
they owed him.  He spent another 4 hours at City Hall filling out
forms and checking county records.  Finally, SEVEN MONTHS after
this little tale started, Santron paid up.  Unfortunately, by now
my friend had incurred more legal fees, which he is in the
process of recovering.  He has spent well over a 100 hours
preparing this case, he has lost countless nights sleep worrying
over it.  He doesn't think Santron have been very nice to him.

     Like all good stories and 90210 episodes, we have to end
with a moral, so here it is:

     If you should ever happen to call Santron to order
something, (and please don't forget that Microlink Data Systems
(MDS) also does business out of the very same locations as
Santron, and with some of the very same phone numbers, and
"Computer Link" in Berkeley also uses the same phone numbers as
MDS and says it is a "sister company" of Santron), maybe you
should let them know how you feel about customer service.  Check
out their policy on adding cards to the computer, (you might want
to add or replace a modem one day).  Check out if they use new or
used parts for repairs.  Check out how long they take for repairs
and what they will do if they can't get the right parts,
especially under warranty.  Check out what they actually mean by
"one year full warranty" and what happens to the level of service
as the end of that year approaches.  And remember, whatever the
salespeople tell you, GET IT IN WRITING.  It may not help much at
repair time, but at least you and the judge can have a good laugh
later.
                                                                      
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: chrz@tellabs.com (Peter Chrzanowski)
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:36:28 GMT

In article <Bx9Mq3.HIC@taligent.com>, cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
> In article <Bx9L2q.93o@fc.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
> >Does that make Burger King responsible for each franchise?
> 
> Absolutely.  They use common advertising, a national identity, etc.
> There is no way for the average consumer to tell that it is a franchise
> and not owned directly by the identity corporation (many have both).
> The parent should take as much responsibility for the franchise as for
> one of its own operations, and many do.

Most franchise owners are only semi-independent as they are bound by
contract to the franchiser; should the franchisee violate the terms
of this contract, the franchiser can revoke the privileges of the
franchisee, such as the right to use trademarked names, symbols, etc.

This is a non-trivial consequence to the franchisee as most franchisers
charge a hefty up-front franchise fee.  

Franchises aren't always a good deal; they tend to be structured so that
the franchiser makes money whether the franchisee is successful or not.
Still, IMO they're easier to evaluate as a business proposition than
MLMs because they're about selling (and perhaps also producing) goods
and services rather than about getting others to get others to get
others to get others to get  ... others to sell.  

It's always seemed that anyone who was going to regularly buy an MLM's
goods might just as well become a 'distributor' themselves -- but then
who's left to be the 'leaves', the 'retail customers', on the distribution tree?

Finally, while the products sold by some MLMs are good quality I've
yet to see any that are a good value; they're just too expensive.
According to Business Week magazine and other sources, a typical big
discount chain store (e.g., Kmart, WalMart) has overhead in the area 
of 15 to 30 percent of sales. I don't see how an MLM can keep costs 
anywhere near that low.
From: rjohnson@shell.com (Roy Johnson)
Subject: Re: Charles Givens books and organization
Organization: Houston, TX
Date: 4 Nov 92 14:48:26

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
   In fact, much of the dialog in his home-study videos is
   taken verbatim from "More Wealth Without Risks." Therefore, I suggest
   people should read his books, but not join the organization.

I also liked his book, "Wealth Without Risk".  I found it interesting,
though, that one of the main differences between it and "More..." was
downgrading the investment goal from "20% average annual return safely"
to "15%".  ;^)  Guess the economy even got to Chuck.

Be careful out there.
--
Roy Johnson
Shell Development Company (but speaking for myself)
Clinton won - I guess there are still plenty of people who don't
see the irony in "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
From: stlucas@gdwest.gd.com (Joseph St. Lucas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Gear needed for fast-trakx
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:05:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: gdwest.1992Nov9.190508.13453
Distribution: usa
Organization: General Dynamics Corp.

My son has a Tyco Fast-Trakx racing car that is radio-controlled.
The gearing has two positions for low and high gear.  It started
grinding in low gear because one of the gears is partially stripped.
I called Tyco, got a replacement price list, but they only want to
sell the entire dual-motor transmission assembly as a unit, and not
the stinking $0.20 nylon gear that stripped.  The motor uses a metal
gear, coupled to the nylon gears, to another metal piece, to drive the
rear wheels.  He can use the thing in high gear only now, but it seems
stupid to not be able to get a replacment gear for it somewhere.  The
local hobby shop sells gears that fit other r/c cars, but not these.
ANyone know where I might be able to mail-order some of these gears,
with 9015-A as an identifier?  THanks.
Joe

-- 
Joe St.Lucas    stlucas@gdwest.gd.com        Standard Disclaimers Apply
General Dynamics Space Systems: our last launch ATTEMPT, Galaxy 1R, leaving
me temporarily at a loss for something witty to say in my signature.
From: yjkim@stein.u.washington.edu (Yong Kim)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Encyclopedia Britannica
Summary: $999
Keywords: Price!
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:19:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov5.191925.26079
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington

I found that they are locally available at Costco.
The price is $999.

-- 
Yong J. Kim  yjkim@milton.u.washington.edu
Department of Management Science
School of Business Administration
University of Washington
From: pc@bellcore.com (Peter Clitherow)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: 20th century ins company?
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:56:00 GMT
Reply-To: Peter Clitherow <pc@bellcore.com>
Organization: Bellcore - Information Technology, Morristown, NJ
X-Gateway: ALEX.ims.bellcore.com
To:  news.post@ALEX.ims.bellcore.com



newsgroups: misc.consumers

a while ago, someone posted an article mentioning "20th century
insurance company" as a good place to get auto insurance, and suggested
800 information for the number.   i just failed to get a number for them
- anyone have any more information about how to contact these people?

p
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:18986 alt.drugs:18232
From: chrz@tellabs.com (Peter Chrzanowski)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:14:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: tellab5.1992Nov12.001441.7288
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.

In article <1992Nov11.160714.29909@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> 
> The biggest doctor ripoff is emergency room treatment. I went into
> the Huntington Memorial Hospital in Pasadena, CA with a sprained ankle.
> Emergency room charges, X-ray charges, and a separate charge for the
> physician to glance at the X-ray, say "It's just a sprain" and splint it
> ($300) ran to almost $1000.
> 

Around here, some for-profit hospitals have closed their emergency rooms.

It seems the big ticket customers for ER service are either victims of 
car accidents or of violent crime.

Car accident victims are likely to have medical insurance, but 
people presenting knife or gunshot wounds are often uninsured.
Car accident victims are usually taken to the CLOSEST ER.  

Therefore, to be profitable, an ER must be located near the off-ramp
of a major highway.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: phone needles
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:08:49 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <4232@cvbnetPrime.COM> dburns@cvbnet.prime.com (Dana Burns x4370 5-2) writes:
>The kids got to the old needle of my pickering cartridge and I'm
>having one heck of a time trying to find a replacement! Please save
>the CD discussion for now, I'd like to cheaply listen to the many
>old scrathies I have. Does anyone know if they sell phonograph
>equipment anymore at all? Does anyone know pickering's number??
>
   Pickering and Stanton are the same company, often styli from one
   will fit the other.  

   You may just want to go to a local Radio Shack.  They carry
   replacements for most of the popular models.  

   If they don't have one, you can mail order a replacement from
   MCM Electronics.  Their number is 800-543-4330.  
   Their current catalog lists entries for Pickering series
   AT-1, AT-2, AM-1, NP/AC, V-15, AME, XV-15, TLS, and TLE.  It has
   pictures for all of those in the event you don't know the 
   exact model number of your cartridge.  Price ranges from $6-20
   with $9 the average.  

   You may also want to check the yellow pages for repair shops in
   the area, many stock the older styli...but I wouldn't pay over
   $20 for any model.
From: wilson@mml.ncsl.nist.gov (Ron &)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Car Driving Service?
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:55:59 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


I would like to know if there is any type of service that 
will drive a car from one city to another for you?  I want to fly my 
mother up here (Maryland) from Cincinnati, Ohio, and I would like a 
way to get her car up here and back.  Does anyone know of a service 
for this?  Someone told me that college students do this sometimes.  

Any help would be appreciated.  Please email me at wilson@mml.ncsl.nist.gov.

Thanx,

Ron Wilson
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Subject: Re: Prodigy - Don't even think about it!
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:28:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.195917.3497@news.acns.nwu.edu> alasnik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Lasnik) writes:
>
>I have found the management of America Online (AOL) to be quite insensitive to
>both new and old customers.  I tried out AOL a few years ago, liked much of
>what I saw, but felt that the offerings were in NO way worth the $6 an hour
>charge.  I became further annoyed when I heard substantiated claims that AOL
>was charging many different rates to different groups of subscribers AND
>wasn't even letting their current subscribers in on the deals.

How is this any different from publishers who offer introductory rates
to snare new subscribers, or from check printing companies who offer
special low rates on your first order of checks but not subsequent
ones, or from credit card companies who charge different interest rates
to different groups of customers?

Seems like a common practice to me.

Charleen

--
If a train station is where the train stops, what's a work station?
From: sean@cobra.dra.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Britannica
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:45:07 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Data Ressearch Associates, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.191925.26079@u.washington.edu>, yjkim@stein.u.washington.edu (Yong Kim) writes:
> I found that they are locally available at Costco.
> The price is $999.

My local public library sells their old encylopedias for $1 per volume when
they get the new edition in.

-- 
Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
Domain: sean@sdg.dra.com, Voice: (Work) +1 314-432-1100
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: judd@mamane.ifa.hawaii.edu (David Judd)
Subject: Re: Re: HELP!  How Can I Improve FM Radio Reception in Office Building? (LONG!)
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Summary: info on DAK 'booster'
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:54:33 GMT
Expires: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 10:00:00 GMT

Hi, the DAK "signal stalker" (I have one) is only for shortwave

reception (3--30 Mhz.).  It will not help on AM or FM broadcast

bands.  Same goes for a longwire antenna, in most cases. Attaching

a longwire to my  AM/FM/SW radio external antenna jack makes the

AM and FM reception worse. 

Aloha,   David     ( ham   NH6H )


   judd@koa.ifa.hawaii.edu
From: pas@ansley.cc.gatech.edu (Paulo Santos)
Subject: Re: The unhappy byproduct of gas stations and ATM cards
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:23:40 GMT

In article <Bx9vxr.7zu@chinet.chi.il.us>, koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz) writes:
> Well I decide to stop at the local Amoco tonight and fill up the car.  
> There's not much money in my wallet, so I decide to use the nifty new ATM
> debit feature.  Same as cash, how can I go wrong?  
> 
> I fill up, walk inside, hand the girl my ATM card, she replies 'Our Cash
> Station connection is down'.  NOW what am I gonna do?  I tell her 'I wish you
> had a sign outside that said that'.  She shrugs.  I take out my credit card,
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why?  You could shrug too.  After all, there was no sign outside, you intended
to pay by ATM card, and you didn't have cash.  You don't have to have a credit
card either.  Wanna bet they find a solution real fast?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Paulo Santos                         Internet: pas@cc.gatech.edu
   Georgia Tech, College of Computing       uucp: ...!gatech!cc!pas
   Atlanta GA 30332-0280, U.S.A.           Voice: (404) 853-9393
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.invest
From: mrand@sdf.lonestar.org (Marc Randolph)
Subject: Re: FORD visa vs. DISCOVER
Organization: Best lil' ol' Pubnix in Texas
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:30:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.224354.10489@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>ff76@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>>> [...]
>>>happen to disagree.  FORD visa gives you an automatic 0.5 percent rebate on
>>>every purchase made.  The rebate is 1.5 percent in any month when you have 
>
>Take a look at the discover rebate, i don't think it starts out at
>1%. I think the first $1000 is at a lower rate.

   I don't know when they will give you 1%, but if you notice in all of their
ads, they say "Up to 1% cash back."

   I have my Discover bill in front of me here.  I've only charged $500
this year, and my "earned" cashback bonus is $1.24.  That means I'm only
getting 0.25% rebate.  Looks like I need to switch to the Ford Visa...
but then again, I have a strong dislike for Fords :-)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.house
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: taping phone conversation
From: <ELTQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 23:15:54 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I just want to know if it's lawful to tape phone conversation within the
Tri-state area.  I think it's OK in New York, only if one party or both
parties know that they are being recorded.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers