From: jas@rdii.com (Jim Smith)
Subject: Re: Duelmasters: Need help with first roll-ups.
Followup-To: rec.games.pbm
Keywords: DM, Duelmasters, RSI
Organization: Racal-Dana Instruments, Inc.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:01:17 GMT


> This didn't work the first time around.  I think.

Wouldn't you know it, I got impatient and sent in my roll-ups on 
Monday.  I did get some advice via e-mail from another player, but 
it appears I may have made some nasty mistakes anyway.

> > 17-15-5-7-14-6-6
> > This one looks like it would make a Basher at 17-15-5-13-15-7-12,
> > or should I not worry about the DF and make increase the ST?

> Good call in some respects, but not in others.  Bashers are probably the only
> style that I've dealt with that don't require huge amounts of deft from the
> beginning.  On the other hand, you probably don't want a basher that's much
> smaller than size 9.  A bit higher might even be better, since size is the  
> stat that most "solidly" affects your damage rating (damage is the physical  
> characteristic which may be most important to a basher).
> On the other hand, you may be holding the Mail-In Tournament Champion for  
> the Rookies division.  What I mean is make an Ultra-Scum: 17-21-5-7-20-6-8.
> Total Parry.  No question.  I would say that you have an excellent chance of
> at least getting a Tournament Victor (warrior who is uneliminated after 10  
> rounds) (the tourney is triple elimination).  That's a great way to start  
> out your DM career!  Afterwards, you have a scum that's good for 13-2-0 or  
> better.  Don't just DA this guy!

I was told this guy was pretty much worthless long term and I should 
just make him anything and DA him.  I made him a 19-17-5-13-17-6-7 BA
so I could run him a turn or two to get some experience running a BA
before I DA'd him.  Sounds like I ruined a potentially great TP. :-(

> It is a fairly subtle point, but if your SCUM has points added to speed, like
> you did here, your scum will have higher init, and will be more likely to  
> attack, which ISN'T as great as you might think.  Against a lunger in minute
> five, it'd be ok to attack, since you're going to outlast him anyway.  But  
> if you want to WIN the TC prize (which this guy could do.  Honestly), you  
> don't want your scumto be attacking in minute 6, because in later rounds,  
> it's going to come down to who can last the longest just standing there.   
> Virgil Locke won the last rookies TC (beating Anne Arky, I think), in  
> twenty-seven minutes, if my memory is correct.
> I'm not sure if this got through before, but this guy is a STRONG candidate  
> for the Rookies TC.  Since you probably couldn't use the prize (resurection  
> of any of your past dead warriors), you could trade it for something.  Say,  
> a decent AD warrior....
> Your Rookies Tournament Champion:  18-21-5-7-20-6-7.

OOP, ACK! Now I KNOW I ruined a potentially great TP.  Somebody pass the 
Kleenex. ;-(

> > 10-4-9-10-13-15-9
> > Since the CN was so low, I was thinking a PR with 10-4-9-16-15-15-15,
> > but I don't think he would last long.

> I'm fighting a lunger right now with the following stats:
> 11(1)-4-10-15-15-15-15.  He started expert attack, and got expert init in two
> skills (which spells excellent long-term success).
> As Todd Thompson and Dick Brown put it to me, "That's a warrior who will be
> very, very good, in a very, very long time."  Well, he's 3-1-2 now, which is
> what I'd pray for any of my short term warriors to do, so he's doing pretty
> well right now! :-)
> The point is that I'd go 11-4-9-15-15-15-15.  If you want, you can train wit
> to 16 with no penalty.  There really won't be much of a difference, though.
> Other than that, I wouldn't do much else besides train up con 1-2 times,  
> then go skills all the way.
> Keep him.  No question about it.

> >	There are a lot of ways to go with this guy.  I'd be tempted to make
> > a slasher out of him, say 11-4-9-15-15-15-15-SL.  Maybe some of the more
> > expreienced players have some better suggestions.

> As David will tell you (hey, where are you, David?  Why haven't you said  
> anything about this rollup? It'd make a great slasher!), slashers do benefit
> a lot fromspeed.  On the other hand, they also benifit from wit.  15 is a  
> relatively high speed, while 15 is a relatively low wit.  I do know someone  
> who made a warrior very similar to this.  He said that he wasn't at all  
> impressed with how the experts fell, so I would only be tempted to try  
> slasher if I got ANOTHER rollup like this.  As I said before, make an  
> 11-4-9-15-15-15-15 Lunger.  Mine is doing really well (two kills, both using
> an epee).  Trust me.  Any decent rollup will make a decent lunger, anyway...

I ended up going with an 11-4-9-15-17-15-13 SL.  I figured I could
train up the con a couple and he would do OK.  I have a sneaking
suspicion the low con will get him dead very quickly however.  Ah,
well, at least lessons learned the hard way are seldom forgotten. ;-)

> > 5-10-12-5-16-9-13
> > Great WL but horrible WT.  Maybe a PS at 5-11-12-11-19-9-17?

> Mistakes that most beginning managers make:
> 1) Add to con to make the warrior more "survivable." i.e. I don't want any  
> of MYwarriors to DIE!!!
> 2) Try to make up for the warrior's weaknesses instead of adding to the  
> strengths.
> Things you should do with this warrior:
> 1) Recognize that a warrior starting with 5 will can only get to an 11 wit,
> which is something you wouldn't do anyway (see #2 above).

So is it always better to just ignore very poor stats and raise the
better stats even higher?

> 2) Realize that an 11 wit (which is something you wouldn't do... oh, you get
> it) isn't good enough to run as a "long-term" warrior.  This implies that  
> you'll be running a short-term guy.

Is there any advantage to running short-term other than the thrill of
watching him hack and slash his way to victory for a few fights?  What
are the implications of running short term vs. long term characters?

> 6) You don't add to con, because points used here are much better used 
> ANYwhere else.  You don't care if he happens to die, because then you 
> get to bloodfeud.

What is "bloodfeud"?  This is the first time I've seen that term.

> So, you end up with something like 10-10-12-5-21-9-17.  Train 1 point of ST
> on his first fight, and you're set!  Could also go 11-10-12-5-21-10-15 and 
> train two points of dft.  Nah, I'd do the first.  LUNGER!!!

I sent in a LU at 11-13-12-5-21-9-13 making the CN mistake you spoke of
above.  Sheesh, did I ever blow this one.  I was figuring on DA'ing this
guy anyways so no huge loss I guess.

> > 8-10-7-13-7-15-10

> Someone I knew was doing experiments with low will PL's.  You could try:
> 11-10-7-17-7-17-15.  I'd make him a short-term striker with those stats,  
> though.  Could also try 12-10-7-13-7-21-15 striker too.
> The second guy might be interesting, but I wouldn't keep either for 
> more than 5 wins, and DA at the first kill, unless no warriors will 
> be bloodfeuding from higher than the Challenger Inits.

I went with an 11-10-7-17-13-15-11 ST to try and make an attempt at
a long term character.

> > 6-10-12-9-12-10-11

> That same lunger idea:
> 9-10-12-17-10-17

I assume you mean a 9-10-12-9-17-10-17?  Again, it would have made a
good short term character, but I ended up going for the long term
again with a 9-10-12-15-17-10-11 LU.

> Your four additional warriors are all excellent in the short-term sense.

Unfortunately, I tried to turn them into long term characters and will
probably end up DA'ing most of them as a result.

> Post if you need any help running them.  Like, from the first fight.
> Let me put it this way, do you have any ideas about how you would fight  
> these guys?

I don't have so much as a hint about how to fight these guys.  Any
suggestions will be most appreciated.

> Don't just let this die.  Ask me why I did things, why I said things... When
> you're on the inside, it's hard to have a feel for what people just learning
> are thinking.

Don't worry, I won't hesitate to ask.  I have a lot of learning to do
so I may ask a few stupid questions, but bear with me and I'll figure
it out eventually.

> > Also, should I request a specific arena, or just let fate take it's course?

> My home arena is 18, and you don't really want to be there.  Most of the  
> managers have a severe clue on how the game works, so have a fairly big  
> advantage over the beginning manager such as yourself.  I do run in 
> arena 58, and it seems to have a fair number of managers who are 
> inexperienced.  In addition, you'd know at least one person there (me!), 
> and we could trade info on warriors.  Drop me a line if you come to game #58!

I just let random chance decide so I'll just have to wait and see where I
end up.

> Like I said, don't let this die out.  I can clarify, and rather do that than
> my EE14 homework!!!

Sure thing.  Thanks for the input, everyone.  With the mistakes
I've made already I'm gonna need all the help I can get just to
salvage something! :-)

By the way, John, I used to drive to Pasadena every Friday night to play
a D&D variant called Warlock at Cal Tech.  I've got a few friends that
graduated from there that still go regularly and I go up once or twice a 
year so next time I'm up that way I'll let you know and maybe we can talk 
DM for a bit.

Jim
-- 
jas@rdii.com                 | "If you put tomfoolery into a computer, nothing
James A. Smith, Sr. Engineer | comes out but tomfoolery. But ... having passed
Racal-Dana Instruments Inc.  | through a very expensive machine, ... no one
POB C-19541 Irvine CA 92713  | dares criticize it."  Pierre Gallois