HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nate@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Nathaniel)
Subject: Re: POPE NEEDS MUD LIST, Film at 11.
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:51:05 GMT

In article <3591@carroll1.cc.edu> acct204@carroll1.cc.edu (Rick DeBies) writes:
>I've been off the MUDs for a loooooong time, my old MUD list is way out of
>date.  I'd appreciate it if some kind soul would either mail me a recent MU*
>list, or point to to an ftp site with such a list.
>
>Thanks in advance...
>
>el Pope est numero 751

If someone would send me a list or tell me where I could get one I would 
also appreciate it.  Thanks in advance.

				Nathaniel Estes
				nate@sage.cc.purdue.edu
 
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2084 rec.games.mud.admin:1202 rec.games.frp.misc:11839 rec.games.int-fiction:1231
From: phuyg@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr P V Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Rumor has it...
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:38:40 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: dill.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan27.004007.17268@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1k3ofbINNluq@uwm.edu> despair@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Craig Andrew Tollifson) writes:
>>THIS IS NOT A MUD and it is NOT on the InterNet. Though we do have use
>>of a national network free of charge to GMs.
>>We are the makers of a new fantasy Text-Based On-Line Multi-Player Role-Playing
>>Game. ...
>
>But a text-based on-line multi-player role-playing game is a mud.  What do you
>mean, it's not a mud?  What else do you think that that sort of thing is?

  I expect they are saying it's not a 'mud' because most people when they
say 'mud' don't mean it in the literal sense, if i say 'mud' to any 'mud'
player i know, most will just assume it's an LP, others may be diverse
enough to think LP, Diku, Aber? etc? So i expect they say it's not a
'mud' so people realise that it's different from the standard sort of thing
you're all used to...

  Hmm... i'm not sure if my addition is more letters than the included bit,
so i'll waffle a bit to put it up, else it wont let me post this article ;)

~Beebop/Paul V. Smith

    Rhubarb rhubarb  waffle blah  rhubarb blah.   Waffle, blah  rhubarb,
rhubarb
waffle waffle  waffle blah  blah blah   waffle waffle  waffle. Waffle blah
blah
rhubarb blah blah waffle waffle blah rhubarb.
    Blah blah blah waffle waffle waffle waffle  waffle blah rhubarb blah
waffle.
Rhubarb waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle blah! Blah.
    Rhubarb waffle blah rhubarb. Waffle waffle rhubarb waffle waffle waffle
blah
waffle.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.int-fiction
From: wrighttj@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Auntie Tim)
Subject: Re: Rumor has it...
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.int-fiction
Organization: Aston University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL241235]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:35:05 GMT

Personally, I was impressed by the fact that the NPCs will use
"Artificial Intelligence"... I was under the impression that 
this wasn't currently possible. I believe that there's a standing
prize put forward by someone in the states (in the order of 10,000?
not sure...) for the first machine intelligence to pass a Turing 
test. Most of my AI lecturers, and the few text books I've read 
seem to think that it's not going to happen in the near future. 
Okay, so I'm being pedantic; the poster evidently meant AI techniques
designed to make things more believable (sp?) rather than convincing
people that an NPC was actually a human being. If so, it could be 
interesting to see how well they do... if not, then I'm sure they
could get government sponsorship, unless they're just blowing hot
air :). All IMHO, of course...

--
Tim Wright.                   \             Being Human just isn't
wrighttj@uhura.aston.ac.uk     \                       enough fun.
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2054 rec.games.mud.lp:4980
From: hawkeye@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Ken Keys - TF Dude)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Client/server protocol for LP prompts
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:11:32 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: glia.biostr.washington.edu
Keywords: client server prompt protocol


The Problem:
When a client receives a block of text not terminated by any
end-of-line marker, there is no way for the client to tell if that text
is a prompt or just the end of a packet which will soon be followed
another packet containing the remainder of the line.  TinyFugue
attempts to handle this by waiting up to 0.25 seconds after receiving
an unterminated line.  If no more text is received in this period, TF
interprets the text as a prompt.  This method causes annoying delays in
displaying prompts, and delays in the net cause many normal lines to be
falsely interpreted as prompts.

The Solution:
The server can append the TELNET protocol sequence IAC GA (Go Ahead) to
lines not otherwise terminated (i.e., prompts).  A client can then
immediately determine how to interpret a block of text:  text ending in
LF or CR LF is a normal line; text ending in IAC GA is a prompt; and
unterminated text is a partial line which can be held pending the
arrival of the rest of the line.

I don't see any problems in this new method.  Old clients will simply
ignore the IAC GA, just as they have always ignored the IAC WILL ECHO
sent by LP and Diku servers at the password prompt.  New versions of
clients talking to old servers will have to guess, as they always
have.

-- 
--
Ken Keys, aka Hawkeye
Master of the Fugue
kkeys@ucsd.edu or hawkeye@ucsd.edu
-- 
--
Ken Keys, aka Hawkeye
Master of the Fugue
kkeys@ucsd.edu or hawkeye@ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2097 rec.games.mud.lp:5031
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Client/server protocol for LP prompts
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:42:44 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

mta@cs.tut.fi (J{rvinen Markku) writes:

>anipa> Bat now supports the telnet GA. Most clients (mud.el, pmf, TF) seem to
>anipa> have some minor cosmetic problems with the extra character that this
>anipa> creates.

>Mud.el now handles correctly telnet GA. Actually it has done it almost a day.
>And it can be taken from cc.tut.fi:pub/mud/mud.el.shar.

Arghhh!

BTW Mudos supports telnet suboption negotion.  (I think they added those
diffs), and I can send you code to get your mud to query the remote
hosts terminal type if you wish.

David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Client/server protocol for LP prompts
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:21:23 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
Keywords: client server prompt protocol
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

hawkeye@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Ken Keys - TF Dude) writes:

>The Problem:
>When a client receives a block of text not terminated by any
>end-of-line marker, there is no way for the client to tell if that text
>is a prompt or just the end of a packet which will soon be followed
>another packet containing the remainder of the line.  TinyFugue
>attempts to handle this by waiting up to 0.25 seconds after receiving
>an unterminated line.  If no more text is received in this period, TF
>interprets the text as a prompt.  This method causes annoying delays in
>displaying prompts, and delays in the net cause many normal lines to be
>falsely interpreted as prompts.

Why do you need to know whats a prompt?  The way I handled it with
whelk was to keep a nice little buffer thingy which had the current
unterminated characters in it.  These I assumed to be a prompt.

It works for me :)  However, why do it with a sleaze on the telnet
protocol?  Why not define up a client/server protocol for muds that
includes all sorts of useful things that should have been done ages
ago :)  Like typeing the packets and so on.

May yours frogs never rot,
David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: singram@eng.auburn.edu (Scott Ingram)
Subject: Re: Can a WIZ threaten you in RL????
Reply-To: singram@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:27:27 GMT

In article 1159@microsoft.com, bethmo@microsoft.com (Beth Moursund) writes:
>IMHO, sending one rude mail message to 20 people is just as worthy of
>being called harrasment as sending 20 rude mail messages to one person.
>
>  - Annalyn @ various MUSHes
>


Please.

This debate has gone much too far.

Cynbe insinuated that there were events we (as r.g.m.t. readers) do not know that
caused Rich to be toaded.

Harrasment is a much overused term these days. It got its hayday, and now I as a
guy am afraid to joke with women in my workplace for fear of a lawsuit.

It is harrasment if your boss asks you to go out with him 20 times.

It is NOT harrasment for that same boss to ask 20 different employees out once
each.

Give it up. Rich obviously thought his request was `ok'. He was shown differently.
It was NOT harrasment in ANY fashion. Merely an unwanted request.

Orion.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: Oh dear, here I go again (was: Can a WIZ threaten you in RL????)
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:28:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.153701.1234@uoft02.utoledo.edu> 
jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
>> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes:
>> >> 
>> >> This is a different situation. There's a difference between 
>> >> posters on a wall and fliers in personal mailboxes.

I wrote the above.

>> An advertisement for a perfume is not very much at all like asking 
>> a woman who you haven't met to portray herself as an object of male 
>> fantasy and perform sensually for the amusement of pimply 
>> undergraduate computer nerds.

Quite.

>you're missing the point. the original poster said that she was

I'm not the original poster. The original poster was the person who sent
the messages.

>not offended by the idea of popping out of a cake at a bachelor party.

No, I said I wasn't offended by bachelor parties. I mostly certainly *am* 
offended by the idea that I should be interested in popping out of a cake
at a bachelor party for someone I have never met, just because I am female.

>i'm trying to figure out what she -was- offended by. was it the fact
>that she got mail from someone she didn't know? was it the fact that
>she got mail at all? was it the fact that that message had also been
>sent to several other people? (Cc:phobia?)

I was not one of the recipients of this particular message. Despite your 
self-claimed nick, you seem completely unable to actually read what's 
written.

-jenneke

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: jsjdb@acad1.alaska.edu (Jason D. Bourgoin)
Subject: Enough (WAS: Can a WIZ threaten you in RL????)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Alaskan MUD Players
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:16:00 GMT

Look, everyone is going to ALWAYS disagree with the next, so why keep
this STUPID, tedious, redundant thread going ?  And besides, I'm feeling
"harassed" by having to wade through all this *Katmandu chuckles politely*

Send all flames to root@localhost (Send to SYSTEM on VAX/VMS systems) ;)

Jason D. Bourgoin,
aka "Katmandu"
_____________________________________________________________________________
\   Jason_D_Bourgoin()->return_email("jsjdb@acad1.alaska.edu");             /
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
\   The opinions/etc expressed herein are my OWN, and do not necessarily    /
/   reflect the views of the University of Alaska, and any affiliates of    \
\   the University, including the University of Alaska Southeast Juneau,    /
/   or the Computer Center and Academic Computing thereof.                  \
\___________________________________________________________________________/
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Client/server protocol for LP prompts
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.misc
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:12:34
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaarne.cs.tut.fi
In-reply-to: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu's message of 27 Jan 93 06:55:25 GMT

djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
> >The Solution:
> >The server can append the TELNET protocol sequence IAC GA (Go Ahead) to
> >lines not otherwise terminated (i.e., prompts).  A client can then
> >immediately determine how to interpret a block of text:
> ...
> >I don't see any problems in this new method.

> a) All the output statements that do not have a carriage return
>    at the end will have to be examined to determine if they
>    are a prompt or not.  Unless your client is willing to accept
>    making an occasional mistake either way.

There is a line of code that prints the prompt if the player is not in
input_to. It is easy enough to add the printing of the IAC GA right
after this if. Whopping 1 line of code.

> b) Is it important enough to make this change?  Why not just display
>    the partial text, then place the cursor after it?  Then if more
>    text comes in later, display that, move cursor, etc.  If the user
>    had typed text in the meantime, move the text to the new cursor
>    position.  (is that easy in tinyfugue?  I haven't looked at it)

>    (my problem here is that I'm unsure why you really need to know
>    exactly if it's a prompt or not - it was a simple matter in my
>    emacs client)

Ever seen rooms/monsters which say messages in call_outs?

> c) It's just more characters that end up getting ignored by everyone.
>    (assuming it doesn't mess up things that aren't strictly telnet
>    complient - including clients *and* telnet implementations)
>    For example, MudOS added extra telnet options for character
>    mode, involving adding extra filters to ignore them (twice,
>    since the first time I mistakenly assumed no one would be
>    silly enough to every turn that mode on).  It's minor, but
>    it is annoying.

>    (and ECHO isn't ignored by all clients.  Most clients can't just
>    simply ignore stuff it doesn't understand, instead they have to
>    filter them out so they don't cause terminals to mess up)

Yup, No client I have so far seen has managed to work without minor
changes. But as a client must support the echo it should be fairly
easy to either ignore or use the goahead.

++Anipa
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: callahan%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Michael Callahan)
Subject: Re: Client/server protocol (not just LP)
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:44:02 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept


kkeys@ucsd.edu or hawkeye@ucsd.edu writes:

>Certainly, one could define a much more complex protocol to do lots of
>other useful stuff.  But that would require new clients and new
>servers, totally incompatible with existing clients and servers.  By
>staying within the TELNET protocol, "raw" telnet and old MUD clients
>continue to work on new servers, and new clients can still use the
>guessing method when connected to old servers.

How about adding flags to the character object which indicate how much
information a person on the other end wants?  For instance, people with
graphics clients could type graphics and be in graphics mode, where they
would recieve extra strings that describe visual information in some graphics
protocol or another.  People who wanted to follow another protocol could just
type it to turn it on.  If it wasn't supported, then they would just have
to suffer with the telnet protocol.  But if it was, they would get all of the
benefits.  Of course, this might slow down the MUD some minimal ammount
with the extra if statements, but this shouldn't be too much of a problem.


  mike
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2039 rec.games.mud.tiny:1484
From: ronan@ug.cs.dal.ca (brian c ronan)
Subject: Re: Can a wiz blah blah blah
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:14:37 GMT

To the people who think that repeatedly asking someone a question
and asing many people a question ONCE is the same thing then
wouldn't EVERY guy and girl be guilty of it everytime they went
out and asked a girl/guy to dance or if they can buy a drink for them?
I mean they ask the same question to many people and guys *GENERALLY*
ask girls to this shows a gender preference...and they may ask ALL
girls so there is no basis on who receives the question.  See they
are NOT the same thing and this whole issue is STUPID and I really
can't see why it went on for this long.  He never harassed anyone, he
just asked a question ignore him and go on with your lives..that Wiz
actually went way out of control too find a better MUD to play on.
I can suggest a few but I read somewhere that we shouldn't so I won't.
Isn't it shitty though the way this word is being used TOO MUCH.
Fuck the world is going to pot...oh yeah one more thing:

		IT"S A GODDAMN GAME HE NEVER WANTED YOU
			TO JUMP OUT OF A REAL CAKE

Did you think that this guy wanted you to come over to his house
and get naked or something..come on next you'll be telling us to 
remove the hug and kiss and all the other social commands cause
they are the same as harrassment.  Get off of the computer lady and
get counselling cause your in way TOO DEEP.

Sorry if this offends anyone but I'm just tired of the whining
it's only a game let the issue die and get on with it.

					Brian
From: test@test.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: test
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:40:33 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

hiho... this is a test
 
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2096 rec.games.mud.admin:1207 rec.games.frp.misc:11939 rec.games.int-fiction:1238
From: gtd543a@sol.crt.columbia.edu (death)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Rumor has it...
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:42:38 GMT
Reply-To: gtd543a@prism.gatech.edu
Organization: Purgatory
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: sundial.gatech.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Auntie Tim (wrighttj@uhura.aston.ac.uk) wrote:
: Personally, I was impressed by the fact that the NPCs will use
: "Artificial Intelligence"... I was under the impression that 
: this wasn't currently possible. I believe that there's a standing
: prize put forward by someone in the states (in the order of 10,000?
: not sure...) for the first machine intelligence to pass a Turing 
: test. Most of my AI lecturers, and the few text books I've read 
: seem to think that it's not going to happen in the near future. 
: Okay, so I'm being pedantic; the poster evidently meant AI techniques
: designed to make things more believable (sp?) rather than convincing
: people that an NPC was actually a human being. If so, it could be 
: interesting to see how well they do... if not, then I'm sure they
: could get government sponsorship, unless they're just blowing hot
: air :). All IMHO, of course...

I think the NPCs are all going to end up sounding like a $2
psychiatrist.  Sample "SuperMUD" NPC conversation:  (my MUD
id is Popskeeter)
(everyone I'm sure has had a laugh or two shouting curse words
at your favorite ELIZA clone)

pops:  hi, who are you?
npc:   my name is arthur tomatobane.  what's yours?
pops:  you know damn well what my name is, you saw it like every
       other player when I entered the room.
npc:   thouest knowst not what thou says.  why do you talk
       like that?
pops:  because my mother didn't bring me up right.
npc:   why didn't your mother bring you up right?
pops:  because she was a bitch, ok?
npc:   why was she a bitch, ok?
pops:  shut the hell up you stupid computer.
npc:   thouest knowst not what thou says.  why do you talk
       like that?
pops:  we already had this conversation.  I just proved you were
       a stupid computer who could never pass a Turing test.
npc:   Why am I a stupid computer who could never pass a 
       Turing test?

{ etc }

In LPmud you can key on certain phrases, so a smart programmer would
guard against the typical newbie cussing out an npc - but you still
can't really get past that stage and realistically expect the program
to function at some sort of pace.  Even the lowest of AI programs
which attempt to interpret natural language run at a snail's pace
when confronted with a sentence longer than something like this:
Jane is running.
 
--
Death: the high price of living
========================================================================
Disclaimer:  I am not bubba.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.int-fiction
From: atk@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Alan Krantz)
Subject: Re: Rumor has it...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:25:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.173505.12915@aston.ac.uk> wrighttj@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Auntie Tim) writes:
>Personally, I was impressed by the fact that the NPCs will use
>"Artificial Intelligence"... I was under the impression that 
>this wasn't currently possible.

Uh this is kind of - oh i don't know - snobbish ?  AI doesn't imply it
passes the turing machine test - it just means he uses some heuristic 
to make it appear pc'ish. Now the real qeustion is just how pc'ish does
it appear ?



Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:2083 rec.games.mud.lp:5014