From: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Coming Full Circle?
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:31:03 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:

>...  To allow the individual units the autonomy
>to choose leaders is important to the basic infrastructure of the BSA.  
>THe local leaders are from the community, are members of the community, and
>the BSA should not dictate to the local community who should be their
>role models and leaders.  ANyone disagree on this?

Well Dominick, I currently probably tend to lean your way on this
particular issue.  (If I sound wishy-washy on this I've succeeded in
getting my meaning across.)  However I think this remains a dynamic
thing.  In some cases in organizations and governments it's better to
localize these issues.  In other cases I believe it's better to
nationalize them.  For instance, the Federal government had to
nationalize National Guard units in the South at times for the
purpose of desegragation.  I think that was appropriate.  

I know I'm against a national policy by the BSA to force acceptance of
homosexuals, for example, to force Roman Catholic and Mormon (to name
just a couple) chartering organizations to have homosexual scouts and
scouters.  But if a chartering organization doesn't care then I don't
know if I should care.

>                                                     Now, the BSA has a 
>policy to exclude lesbigays.  that interferres with the local community 
>which may or may not have lesbigays who are qualified and willing to be 
>leaders, and acceptable to the community (see San Diego).  
>   Now, a troop is being sponsored (this is hypothetical) by the Metropolitan
>Community Church, and the scoutmaster is gay.  the BSA says no.  WHy.  Two
>reasons.  1). the scoutmaster has violated BSA policy and can not hold 
>his position if he is gay.  2). MCC is a predominately lesbigay oriented 
>non-denominational Christian Church.  Now, most of the boys in this troop
>are the children of lesbigays.  In this scenario, the parents rights have 
>been abandoned and disallowed by the BSA.  Is this a right or wrong 
>situation?  It is wrong in that it has violated the BSA's stance of serving
>the boys primarily and foremost. 
>   As far as Camporees, I don't see a problem.  Being gay isn't really an
>issue, but it has been made into one.  What would be a problem at a 
>Camporee, the "offended" troop not participate?  Then that's their problem.
>They are the ones' missing out.  they aren't being forced out, but they
>are missing out.  Gays are being forced out.  We don't have a choice.  

Well maybe.  For instance my workplace is generally smoke free.
However I'm "offended" by all the smoke roiling out of the break room;
I don't "participate" in the break room experience of sitting at a
table with a coke and paper (I probably wouldn't anyway so this
is a little hypothetical).  Is this "my problem" that I don't want to
be impacted by the health effects of tobacco smoke?  I'm the one
who's "missing out" if I really wanted to stay.  Am I not being
forced out (feels like it to me)?

>So, we are fighting for that choice.  What problems do you see occuring at 
>a Camporee?  I don't see any that aren't caused by fear and lack of education.
>They can be overcome by some simple programs.  

A camporee was just one of my example.  An actual case that causes me
to pause and consider this is that my two best friends (they still
are) were on camp staff about 20 years ago.  One of the other staff
members (male) made a pass at friend A in friend B's presense.  This
sorta set them both back for a time.  Now I don't want this to be a
big deal, it's not had much of any impact on their lives that I can
see. Still I'm not sure this is OK at a scout camp.

I really mean that last sentence.  I'm generally in favor of letting 
units decide if they want to go co-ed, and certainly in such a setting
hetersexuals will be making passes at each other.  

>WWW
>Dominick V. Zurlo
>Eagle Scout '87
>blacklisted '88
>"If the world is my oyster, Why am I allergic to Mollusks?"
> 
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Robert D. Losee                 BITNET: ucas402@unlvm
University of Nebraska          Internet: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu
Lincoln NE  68588-0496          Phone: (402) 472-7663