HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg)
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.edu,misc.education,sci.engr.biomed,sci.engr.chem
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:50:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: unixland.1992Apr10.195056.14569
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS

I'm sorry if this is getting a bit off the subject of engineering, and I
can continue elsewhere if Gerry wishes. However, 

In article <GERRY.92Apr10111557@onion.cmu.edu> gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:

>As to the communication ability: When I travelled abroad, I made it a
>point to AVOID other Americans and English speakers because part of
>the reason for travelling is to learn a new culture and language.  

and also writes
>
>It has gotten to a point, for me, that if a person can not express
>themselves clearly, then I don't care what they are saying.  Trying to
>decipher some of the very thick accents around this place takes to
>much effort, and the point being made it typically lost in the effort
>to understand.

Do you notice nothing contradictory here? On the one hand, when you were
abroad, you wished to mingle with people in other lands and speak other
languages. Yet you are annoyed and can't be bothered talking with foreigners
with very thick accents.

Perhaps you are one of the lucky, talented people who can quickly pick up
languages and master perfect accents. Most people aren't. 

I have several friends from Russia living here, and we have spoken about
what George Bush might call The Language Thing. In my opinion, their
English is quite good -- I understand them fine, and they almost always
understand me. Thus it came as quite a surprise to me initially when
2 of these friends told me that they have problems not only understanding
some Americans, but having some Americans understand them. The reason,
they said, is people's attitudes -- if someone WANTS to understand them,
they probably will; if they don't want to make an effort, they won't.

I'm studying Russian now, and I know now what they mean. When someone is
warm, friendly, and encouraging about my efforts, my limited language
skills go a heck of a lot farther.

Were you fluent when you travelled abroad? Or maybe *you* were helped
by people who wanted to make the effort to understand you?

Whether or not students should be required to have a certain level
of ORAL proficiency before being admitted to study here is, in my
opinion, a legitimate--and separate--issue. But attitudes towards 
people with accents who are already here are something else.

Disclaimer: This posting and my employer have nothing to do with each
other.


-- 
Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
Framingham, MA  USA
email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: Steam engines in the Sudan.
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:12:29 GMT
Reply-To: Codesmiths <dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Gated to News by demon.co.uk


> Does anyone know how far an engine with a hot boiler but no fire can
> pull a train before it stops?

All day ! They're called fireless locomotives (for obvious reasons).
Small ones were commonly used for shunting & light use in chemical or
explosive plants, where a normal steam engine would have presented a
fire hazard. Some plants (like papermills) which already had an
abundant supply of process steam use them just because they're
convenient & the fuel is effectively free. They look similar to a
small steam engine, but the "boiler" is just a pressure vessel. They
don't have chimneys or water tanks either.

A few of these have been prserved in the UK. Steamtown at Carnforh,
Lancs have one.

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
Xref: sparky sci.engr:1214 sci.edu:537 misc.education:1891 sci.engr.biomed:247 sci.engr.chem:252
From: rdmiller@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ruth D Miller)
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.edu,misc.education,sci.engr.biomed,sci.engr.chem
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Date: 13 Apr 1992 16:51:11 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1992Apr13.161832.18145@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
>In article <scaacINN6rp@hilbert.math.ksu.edu>, bennett@math.ksu.edu (Andy Bennett) writes:
>
>|> >I find it interesting in the context of this discussion that the standard
>|> >for American English is set by someone who was foreign-born - Peter Jennings 
>|> >comes from Canada.
>|> 
>|> The last time I looked, Canada occupied the northern part of America. The 
>|> continent includes more than just the U.S.
>
>Besides, everybody knows that except for that Quebec place, Canada is just an
>extension of the US. We just call it by a different name for administrative
>reasons.
>
>Jason W. Solinsky :-)

Dear me, we are going to get some Canadians _furious_ with us!  The
Canadians I know would _Hate_ to be lumped with US citizens, even on
language.  Jennings has some verbal perculiarities: ever hear him
say "out" or "about"?  Canadian English and "generic" US English (if
there is such a thing) are 2 different animals. :-)

Ruth

Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Date: Tue,  7 Apr 1992 23:55:18 -0400 
From: Luis J Mendez <lm2k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Survey

	Sorry for the waste of bandwidth...
	My name is Luis Mendez, student  at the Information Networking
Institute at Carnegie Mellon and I am working on a survey for an
Industrial Administration course.  The purpose of the survey is to
collect information regarding the characteristics that industrial
customers look for in a firm from which they plan to buy a product or
service and how those characteristics affect the selection process.  As
area of study, I have chosen computer hardware firms.  It is of my
interest to learn what characteristics are considered by corporations
when deciding from which firm it is desirable to buy computer hardware. 
If any of this netnews' readers is related to hardware purchasing at any
company and would like to participate on this survey, please send me an
email with a fax number where I can reach you, and I will fax you back
the questions and all the information concerning the survey.  Any help
you can bring me  will be really appreciated.  Copies of the team's
final report will be available upon request.  Thanks for your help.

	Luis Mendez
	lm2k@andrew.cmu.edu
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 12:53:34 TUR
From: <E55189@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: HELP about TORSIONAL IMPAC

I'm interesting in torsional impac for my Ph. If you help me I will be grateful
.
  Thanks
        e55189 at TRMETU
From: dave@angmar.llnl.gov (Dave Fuess)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: Properties of steam and water
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:11:41 GMT
Distribution: sci.engr
Organization: UC LLNL


The following was a reference for a class in thermo. It not only includes
extensive tables but also includes the computational equations.

	THERMODYNAMIC PROPERTIES IN SI
	Department of Mechanical Engineering
	Stanford University
	Stanford, CA 94305

	LIST PRICE $5.50 (1979)
	ISBN 0-917606-05-1

Dave

Xref: sparky sci.engr:1197 sci.edu:523 misc.education:1869 sci.engr.biomed:236 sci.engr.chem:244
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.edu,misc.education,sci.engr.biomed,sci.engr.chem
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:32:20 GMT
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

Sharon,
Your point is well taken, and I can se where there may appear to be a
contradiction in my earlier post.  Let me clarify if I can: When you
speak with your Russian friends, and when I was in France, the
"foreigners" were making a clear, conscious effort to learn the new
language by submersing themselves into it fully.  This effort never
goes unappreciated by the natives.  [One of the best moments in my
life was when I was in Carcason, a small village near the Spanish
border. The French spoken there is quite "difficult" to understand due
to the strong Spanish influence... the accent is quite pronounce.
Anyway, while taking a tour of the old city, the tour guid, an
elderly, native asked me if I was from Alsasce, a region of France
near the German border that also has a strong accent.  What a
wonderful feeling!]

When I see a strong desire for a foreigner to learn our language, I
try to help that person and I DO listen to them.  It is those,
however, that make little effort, that I don't give a flip for.

p.s  I will be starting Russian classes this fall.  Wish me luck!

--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The most foolish mistake we could possibly
Field Robotics Center,          | make would be to allow the subjected people
Carnegie Mellon University      | to carry arms, history shows that all
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | conquerors who have allowed their subjected
(412) 268-3856                  | peoples to carry arms have prepared their own
                                | fall. Adolph Hitler
The opinions expressed are mine | 
and do not reflect the official | 
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
or any other organization.      |
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 12:44:02 TUR
From: Sajjad Badre Alam <E55902@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject:    HELP : searching for thesis topic

   I am a Civil engineer and will start my M.S. program in Structural
Engineering in the fall of 1992 . I am looking for a  suitable thesis
topic related to the following fields

         1- Finite Element Method .
         2- Matrix Structural Analysis .

   To give an idea I am writing some of the topics I found interesting :
     1. Analysis of behavior of shells under impact/dynamic loading .
     2. Collapse analysis of steel columns in fire using FEM .
     3. FEA of curved bridges .
     4. FEA of hollow concrete slabs .
     5. Deflection prediction for concrete slabs reinforced with
        steel decking .
     6. Analysis of composite slabs subjected to concentrated loading .
     7. Analysis of behavior of tall reinforced concrete buildings under
        impact/dynamic loading .
     8. Failure of tensioned plates weakened by circular hole .
     9. Error estimation procedure for plate bending design .

   I will be very grateful if somebody sends me some new and challenging
topics releated to the above mentioned fields or any other field closely
releated to them .

Sajjad Badre-Alam
E55902@TRMETU

Xref: sparky sci.engr:1145 sci.edu:491 misc.education:1827 sci.engr.biomed:198 sci.engr.chem:212
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.edu,misc.education,sci.engr.biomed,sci.engr.chem
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:16:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr8.041641.23041
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr8.022921.6693@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, khafagi@egr.msu.edu (Bassem K. Khafagi) writes:

|> * 1. Do you feel FE are assets or burden to the system

FE's are a huge asset to any engineering program. They bring an increased
diversity of viewpoints, an guarantee that any views that get forced on Americans
in secondary education, are not held by all students in higher education.
 
|> * 2. Do you beleive they discourage women or minorities from the eng. profession

No. Society does that.
 
|> * 3. Do they have any impact on the Salaries (for Faculty or Engineers)

Since they have the same representation in Faculty as in grad school (about 33%)
I'd imagine that they merely deny American born PhDs the chance to become faculty
members, and that they do not influence salaries in that area. Industry salaries
are governed primarily by the supply and demand of people with various levels of
skill so the same thing should occur there.
 
|> * 4. How the system can benifit from their existence in the U.S.

See question 1. It's ashame that discriminatory quota policies for undergraduates
at schools like MIT limit their numbers to 8% per class.
 
|> * 5. For Students taught by Foreign Faculty or TA's, What is your feedback

They seem to be perfectly fine. I think, however, that at other schools with
lower TOEFL requirements, this can be a problem.
 
|> * 6. Do they need more admin. work (Burden)

no
 
|> *** PLEASE, e-Mail your comments since I don't read this news group. THNX....

OK

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.edu,misc.education,sci.engr.biomed,sci.engr.chem
From: hadgraft@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (Roger Hadgraft, Civil staff, ext 4983)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: On-line Information Sources for Engineers
Date: 2 Apr 92 23:54:14 GMT
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University

In article <1992Mar31.183031.4408@unixland.natick.ma.us> sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:

>Thanks again to all who responded to my request for information about
>on-line information sources for engineers. My article will be
>published in the April 6, 1992 issue of Design News. (Unfortunately,
>I could only negotiate 2 pages for a subject that needs 20 :-) )

>Sharon

>-- 
>Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
>Framingham, MA  USA
>email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon

How about a posting here too?

--
Roger Hadgraft, Senior Lecturer in Civil Engineering
Monash University, Clayton, Victoria, AUSTRALIA, 3168.
phone: 03 565 4983  fax: 03 565 4944 or 3409 intnl: +61 3 565 ....
e-mail: roger.hadgraft@eng.monash.edu.au
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: The next EUS song!
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:26:39 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Summary: The U.S.'s beginning weren't so hot either!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

There's a bit of doggerel called "The Mining Engineer" of which I
only remember a few snatches:

If you can talk like Webster, Clay, or Depew 
Or stand a dinner table on its head,           
If you can mend a bone and bind up sinew       
And later preach a sermon for the dead;        

If you can build with neither square nor level
And lay out towns with just the naked eye,
If you can run a survey like a "civil,"
And analyze an ore by wet or dry;

{...ya da da...}

..we'll add the title "Mining"
when we call you "Engineer."

This would probably be the official song of my alma mater in the
event that they decided they needed one (culturally, "A Hundred
Bottles of Beer on the Wall" would be more like it!).

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: Foreign Students / Faculty
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:39:23 GMT
	<1992Apr10.195056.14569@unixland.natick.ma.us> <6686@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
	<2801@dove.nist.gov>
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co., Sunnyvale, Ca.
In-reply-to: gilligan@bldrdoc.gov's message of 15 Apr 92 01:03:44 GMT

In article <2801@dove.nist.gov> gilligan@bldrdoc.gov (Jonathan M. Gilligan) writes:
   I don't want to jump to a simple conclusion. However, there is a
   problem.  At a time when many qualified US PhDs cannot find permanent
   jobs, many permanent jobs are taken by foreigners, in whose native
   countries US citizens are not free to compete. Can we address the
   question of what to do about this problem constructively and without
   bashing foreigners?

----
No.

----
   Should there be prejudicial hiring of US citizens? Should we restrict
   our universities to producing fewer graduates? Should we let the
   free market take care of things?

----
No. No. Yes.  People talk about "letting" the market take
care of things as if they had a choice.  The market will
respond to conditions whether you want it to or not.  If
you attempt to manipulate the market, you are odds on to
screw it up.  Who are "we" anyway?  How would you go about
your manipulations?  Remember that actions have reactions
even in economic systems.

--
----
Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: bamse@IASTATE.EDU (Sten M Thernelius)
Subject: Birka, Stockholm.
Reply-To: bamse@IASTATE.EDU (Sten M Thernelius)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:19:07 GMT

 


    Hejsan,

       Skulle ngn kunna informera litet om hur utgraevningarna pa Birka
    i Stockholm gar.  

        
       Manga tack pa foerhand,

               Magnus Thernelius
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: johnnyb@ims.com (Johnny Battle)
Subject: Hupa Tribal History
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:34:50 GMT

An article in yesterday's Orgegonian discussed possible limits
to be placed on salmon fishing.  It quoted officials of the
of a Northern California indian tribe as saying that the Hupa
indian tribe had fished for salmon in the Trinity river for
10,000 years.  Is there any archealogical evidence to support 
such a claim?  Or is it just more political hyperbole.  Surely
tribal migration, reorganization, etc have occurred in that region 
over the centuries.
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Earliest Building
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:54:57 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Apr13.193648.4696@unocal.com>, stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.203852.7190@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>>Just as a matter of curiosity, when and where were the
>>first buildings (interpreted loosely)?  I guess we need
>>to add a "what" to the above question.
> 
> Aboriginal structures made of bone and some stone have been found in the CIS
> somewhere dating 20+ thousand years ago.  These would be similar to semi-permenant
> structures such as tepees by American Indians or wood houses in the Amazons.
> 
> Some stone buildings have been found in the Middle East some 9,000 years old.

Well if we're talking buildings in the loosest possible sense of the word (!)
aboriginal structures made of bone and stone...then I'd plump for Terra 
Amata where the great Henri de Lumley found evidence for 21 rudimentary huts
left by homo erectus on the present day French riviera. Dated to the holstein
interglacial 300 000 years ago de Lumley found postholes where stakes had been
driven into the ground and impressions of feet, bums etc in the ground. He 
suggested that the huts were oval in shape and quite large (ca, 26-49 feet
long). This would qualify as a "what" building :^)

Tom.
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: neanderthals
Date: 6 Apr 92 02:12:32 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum



According to a 1985 National Geographic, a bone sewing needle was found in
a Neandertal burial. They photographed it (it's in a museum) and printed it
and it is a beautiful needle, about the same shape, size, a design as a modern
medium large metal one, including a small eye. If you sew, you know there is
no need for such a fine needle unless you intend to do fine work. (And it must
have been very difficult to make! Or keep from breaking.) Accordingly, it
seems unlikely Neandertal sewing was as primitive as often postulated. For a
comparison, much Amerind sewing was done by simply sharpening a sinew, and
using the hard part to pull the soft part through as thread, for rough work.

This level of sophistication in a difficult task like sewing makes it hard for
me to believe the neandertal were all that primitive.

Suze
From: v187ef4y@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Patrick J Crowe)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: iroquois passports
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:22:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

It is indeed the Iroquois who have their own passports.  While attending a
conference in Switzerland, some Onondaga leaders brought along makeshift
passports, and the customs official, not sure what to do, stamped them.  In
international law, that act made the passports legally valid.

Pat Crowe 
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: keithh@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Keith Harwood)
Subject: emic; Que?
Organization: Telectronics Pacing Systems
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:16:30 GMT

In recent postings the word `emic' has turned up in relation to
traditional life-styles. What does the word mean, please?

	Lesley Harwood
From: pat@mtl.mit.edu (Patricia E. Varley)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re:  Hupa Tribal History
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:18:29 GMT
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories



The earliest settlement of the Northwest Coast was by both
coastal groups from the sub-Artic area and interior groups.
As the Northwest river waters warmed, their up-river habitats became 
suitable for salmon spawning.  The time frame was roughly
10,000-8,000BC.  Thus there was very likely a major shift in subsistence
strategy adding the salmon fishing to big-game hunting, increased\
foraging (after 9,000BC) and some marine resources such as
clams and mussels.  Unfortunately, the archaeological evidence
for fishing is rare because they are made
 of perishable material. The sites are poorly documented.
 Only the stone manos and metates for
 breaking up shells remain.

See:  C.A. Borden, "Origins and Development of Early Northwest
Coast Culture to About 3000BC," and K. Fladmark, "A Preliminary Report on Lithic Assembleges from the Queen Charlotte, Islands, British
Columbia," in Early Man and Environments in Northwest North
America.

Pat
From: medusa@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: neanderthal blood samples & DNA
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:09:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: ac.1992Apr12.130937.4992
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <EXILE.92Apr5124901@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, exile@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Heresiarch) writes:
> In article <h75Hye5e6@cs.psu.edu> okunewck@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Phil OKunewick) writes:
> 
>    
> 
> onto archaelogical applications of gene technology.
> 
> DNA molecules, bundled into chromosomes, are amazingly tough, so
> durable that DNA samples have been recovered from million-year old
> bits of cured hide.  the genes of every living creature are made of
> the same DNA molecules (except for some viruses, which have RNA, and
> may or may not be alive anyway, but that's another argument).  each
> cell in the body, blood, hair or skin, has the same genetic material.
> to make tests of DNA, a couple of cells from the sample (say, a
> neanderthal fingernail) are dropped into a test tube with
> DNA-duplicating enzymes cultured from modern cells.  the enzymes make
> exact copies of the DNA at an exponential rate.  in a short time, the
> few cells, each with their copy of DNA, have produced millions of DNA
> copies.  these copies can then be put into other test-tubes, hacked
> apart with chemical 'markers,' and the results studied with
> chromatography or other tests.
> 
> the upshot is, genetic testing uses a very small amount of original
> material, and the genes recovered can be preserved indefinitely in a
> culture in a laboratory somewhere.  therefore, the scarcity of
> neanderthal blood is no barrier to genetic testing and evaluation of
> our distant relatives' DNA.
> --
>
Granted that you can extract genetic material from Neandethals, to what
end is this being done.  What will the genetic material tell researchers
about early man?  Also ir you do not have any other early homo DNA 
samples to compare it to how can one judge what it is that made 
Neanderthals unique?                         </SIG>