From: v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (John of Gaunt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Car Wars
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:39:00 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr5.234916.11526@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, ks5y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes...
>v077mdph@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John of Gaunt) writes: 
>> TJS107@psuvm.psu.edu (Sime) writes...
>>>It seems to me that even with all the variety of weapons and vehicle types,
>>>there's still only so much you can do.  I know everything is limited, but
>>>for example, there are a certain few types of cars you could built for a
>>>div 5 (or 10 etc.) that would actually have a chance of surviving.
>>>They did fix the ramplate rule, thank goodness, since that was about the
>>>only weapon worth getting before Uncle Al's new book came out.
> 
>> In my experience, ram cars are almost useless.  I have never, ever seen a ram
>> car win a duel of any sort.  I've seen them do well, but never win.  Fire and
>> some dropped weapons are usually much more effective.
> 
>I'd like to disagree.  Ram cars could be devastatingly effective in any rather
>large, open type of arena (e.g. Hammer Downs).  Unfortunately, the newer,
>munchkinized "big p*nis" weapons that SJG has introduced (anyone say "Blast
>Cannon"???) kinda make this a moot point.  I'd hazard that it's not possible
>to win without one.  Once, long ago, it was possible;  not any more.

	Sorry, but you can't really argue with facts.  In the arenas I have 
played in ram cars have not been very effective.  They would be more effective
in somewhat more open arenas.
	The blast cannon is nothing compared to the old VFRP!  Besides, I think
think they did it because they figured it would make ram cars less attractive.
Personally, I like the idea of big weapons.  They make the game shorter so that
you can play a ten-man free-for-all in under ten hours!
	You can win without a ram plate or blast cannon easily.

>>>But still, you could design a pretty effective car for 10k (w/o an ATG) and
>>>the guy with the 10k car and the sabot AT rounds is going to kick your ass.
>>>I'm not complaing that the weapons are too powerful (although I do think
>>>that this _is_ true) I'm just saying that there seems to be a limited
>>>amount of things to do.  (Does this make any sense?)
>> 
>> 	This could be a problem.  The game is designed such that firepower
>> usually wins out over armor. Believe me, I've designed a lot of armordilloes.
>> 	I don't think the weapons are too powerful.  Think about it.  How will
>> would YOUR car react to .50 cal machine gun bullets?  A car really can't carry
>> all that much armor, either.  It is not unreasonable for a car to carry an
>> anti-tank gun, either.
> 
>Well, I dunno.  A stripped mid-size with an extra ton of armour welded on would
>do pretty da*n well against a .50 cal.  'natch, you'd have to upgrade the
>chassis and frame or use enough that it's something like a monocoque chassis
>(the skin panels support themselves).  Anyways, that's how REAL "bulletproof"
>cars probably work.  And a few years ago, armour or movement WERE effective
>alternatives to firepower.  The NEWER weapons are definitely too powerul;
>just compare the AT gun with the Blast Cannon:  NO RECOIL, 4 dice damage,
>almost no additional weight, better accuracy(!), minimal cost increase.

	In my most recent duels, good movement and fire usually win.  Big
weapons and ram plates haven't.  Remember, even under the old rules, you
needed good acceleration to make a ram plate effective.  Having good 
acceleration and dropped weapons nullifies most of the advantages of ram cars.
As for dealing with a guy with heavy weapons, the keys are movement, accuracy,
and having big weapons yourself.

>>>Car Wars:  Tanks looks pretty ridiculously powerful, esp. the nukes, but
>>>interesting nonetheless.  Aeroduel looks good too (although I have neither
>>>of these).  How do they handle movement in Aeroduel, with the high speeds?
>>>The scale must be different (HAS to be different) since the speeds are so
>>>fast and the counter for a huge airship would take up an entire map in
>>>regular CW scale.
> 
>I've tried Aeroduel (playtest version).  Movement is handled rather well; it's
>a pretty decent attempt to deal with a LOT of stuff (planes, choppers, blimps).
>with 3 dimensions, high speeds, etc.  The scale IS the SAME.  But they assume 
>mega$$$$, so you buy RGMs and launch at range.  And you ignore motion except
>when the planes get close to each other.  So it really doesn't matter.
>Aeroduel adds all sorts of new ultra-powerful weapons;  it would be amusing 
>to bring them into official combat...  "You see a van..."
> 
>I'd be afraid to try tank wars;  don't we have that already in Car Wars! :)
>Nukes!?!?  Tanks!?!?  As if mini-buses with tank guns weren't bad enough.
> 
>>>Oh well, my 2 cents.  I hope to see some more CW babblings here.
>>>Here's to hoping you have an Improved Fire Extinguisher when the other guy
>>>has 4 or 5 incendiary MG's...
>> 
>> 	How about five incendiary machine guns and a high-temperature flame-
>> thrower?  The last time I used that kind of weaponry, even the guy with the
>> IFE blew up.
> 
>Hah!  I use a Deluxe FE with Halon on my electric car.  I can't burn.

	I've never even heard of it.  It's obviously something from hell.

>				- John.
>Standard Disclaimer.

Snoopy