HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martian Arts
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:45:05 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

>|
>|	I say the Martian wins every time. He just turns invisible and sneaks
>|	behind the poor boxer.
>|
>... not to mention the Space Modula-tor he usually keeps under his obi.
>Really, the boxer doesn't stand a chance.
  NOT A CHANCE!  Oh boy, flame war....
  I've been in MA for about 6 months now, and although MA is great, I 
don't see how anybody can consider a boxer easy to defeat.  For some
reason, people seem to think that a boxer is going to be stupid in a street
fight with a karate whatever and not throw, not kick, not do any extremely
painful things to your face.  Ever watch Mike Tyson fight?  He loves elbow
to the face.  Does them all the time.  To think these guys would just
stand there clueless as to what to do about your kicks is absurd.  I
havent had that much training, but I did box rather informally.  A little
patience on the part of the boxer would make it just as fair a fight as any.
  But wait, there's more...People I talk to always say things to the effect of
"could a boxer take a hit on soft spot X?"  Well, can a karate student?
Boxers can hit the bridge of your nose, ribs, sternum, thighs (that works
REAL well in slowing MA people down) and face.  Also, have you ever seen a 
boxer train--they block with their hands, not just put their fists in front
of thier face like they do in the ring--it just works better for them there.
I've seen alot of mature stuff, with all options considered enter this
forum, but "the boxer doesn't stand a chance" is silly.  

 --------------------------Jowfus   hogue@cs.arizona.edu------------------------
 | Before I die I plan to do one of two things: Solve the saw function problem |
 | or find a program that works better in COBOL than any other language.  Both |
 | are impossible.                                                             |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: berimbaus, Brazilian arts, Capoeira
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:19:06 GMT
Organization: UB


	Hi -- a while back, I read _In_Search_Of_The_Warrior_Spirit_,
written by a psychotherapist/aikido master, about teaching aikido to
Green berets.

	He mentioned Capoeira, a Brazilian method of martial artistry.
There is a funky stringed instrument, with one string, called the
berimbau, and apparently one strums funky jammin' Brazilian rhythms
on this and goes into trance and so forth.  

	Any one know about this? And (obsession becomes apparent) how
it relates to Kundalini?  If at all?


Thanks
Luck
Rick
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: local query on judo club
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:45:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.Bxtz7A.HsB
Organization: UB

Hi, does anybody at UB know when/where the Judo CLub is meeting?
Could you reply by mail or follow up this post please?
Thanks
Rick
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Re: Tae Kwon Do, getting a Black Belt, etc...
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:30:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Nov20.133134.1448@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>In article hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>>  Hello!  I only recently discovered this group - I don't have a specific
>>question to ask, but someone may want to make some comments...
>>  I have been training in TKD here in Ft Collins for about a year now, and I am
>>presently a red belt (white,yellow,green,blue,red,black).  This was not my
>
>From my perspective, that seems like *very* rapid progress. Just
>to give you a sense of the other extreme, it took me nearly five
>years to reach the red belt level in TKD.  I was spending about
>8 hours/week as opposed to your 12 - 15, but even so your rate
>of progress has been about 3 times as fast as mine was.

Yes, and this is what makes me wonder if I am a "real" red belt.  When you are
used to one school it is difficult to measure yourself against how others are
ranked.  I am very curious how I stack up with red belts from other schools.
Also, for all of our belts, we have a high ranking, that is, a black stripe
added to the ends of the belt.  However, for red, we have red, high red, and 
'black-tipped red' which has 2 black stripes.  So this provides yet another step
before black recommend.  And I said that I am a red belt, but yesterday I took 
my high red test.



mike

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy Middleton)
Subject: question about history of different styles
Organization: University of Waterloo Software Liberation Army
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:27:13 GMT

I'm trying to get some understanding of the differences in approach, and the
history of, jujutsu, aiki-jujutsu, aikido, and judo.  As far as I can tell,
they all are derived ultimately from jujutsu, but I'm not sure of how modern
versions of each are related.

As a concrete example: we (aiki-jujutsu) have a technique called nikyo, as do
the aikido people.  While the footwork looks the same to me, the hand and arm
positions are different -- the uke's seems to be held more loosely, and is
straighter, in the aikido technique.

In any case, it would be great if somebody who knows all these styles would
like to comment.

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@math.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cynthia@ll.mit.edu (Cynthia Eldridge)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Age and Training
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:13:40 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington MA
Originator: cynthia@ll.mit.edu (Cynthia Eldridge)


In article <By2MEt.As3@sju.edu>, tmoody@sju.edu (T. Moody) writes:
|> ...
|> I have been thinking a bit about this lately, but in the context of how
|> important a factor age (and lifestyle) may be in the decision to *begin*
|> martial arts training.
|> ...
|> As someone who started
|> Shotokan karate training at 35 and who is by no means an athlete, I have
|> noticed a few things.  First, the training is obviously not designed for
|> someone of my physical condition.  
|> ... 
|> Second, I have attended (as a spectator) a number of 1st dan exams and
|> observed others who *began* training at a non-youthful age.  There is,
|> in my view, a significant observable difference between these people and
|> the younger ones.
|> 
|> It may be that it is naive to expect to  attain any great level of
|> competence in any martial art if one does not begin training young; or
|> it may be that this is true only for certain styles.
|> 

I feel that what is considered "great level of competence" in a martial art
should be different for each person.  I also feel that competence should be 
based on the potential of each person.  I have come to this belief after
seeing many students practically transform before my eyes.  For example,
I watched one older fellow (he looks 40-50 to me), who always seemed so 
awkward, become much more coordinated and able to generate real power.  
Another student I know, who was born with a disability like cerebral palsy,
has improved his coordination dramatically during the 3-4 years that he has 
trained with my club.

So what if an older person cannot perform with the same ability than as
a younger person?  Will that make the person any less of a martial artist? 
If a person trains only 3 times a week because of physical limitations,
then (I think) that's fine!  That's 3 times a week better than no training
at all!  

In my own training (which is JKA Shotokan, BTW), I endeavor to improve 
myself, to do better than I though I could possibly do.  I do not compare 
myself to the person next to me (at least I try not to).  Isn't that the 
idea behind all martial arts?

Cynthia
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: Re: Stockholm Shotokan...
Keywords: Shotokan Stockholm
Organization:  JKA Dallas, Texas.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:08:58 GMT

Dear Sir:
please contact a Nils Petter Tetlie
                 Roslagsgaten 21
                 11355 Stockholm, Sweden.

He is a former student of mine living in Sweden who I directed to 
several dojos there.   He will also have the address(maybe phone #)
of Mr. Ted Hedlund... The head of Swedish Shotokan.  
I do not have Mr. Hedlund's address with me, however you could call
JKA Chicago (Sensei Sugiyama) where Mr. Hedlund used to train, the 
phone # is 312-472-2244.  I'm sure Sensei Sugiyama keeps up with 
Mr. Hedlund.    Best of luck.

B. Webb, JKA DALLAS.
From: v067rcyf@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: desire info...
Keywords: Defense!
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I once heard of a martial art that dealt only with defensive moves...
i.e. redirecting the attackers blow without using any offensive moves.

It seemed like the perfect defensive knowledge for a quasi-pacifist
like myself.

If anyone knows what this is called, could you please email me (or
post, but i don't read this group often) and if possible, let me know
where I can look into this?  Especially in the Buffalo, NY area.

Thanx in advance...
-------------------------------aardvark
From: linh@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Info wanted....
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:46:55 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY



   I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to give me some
intros to martial arts like different types of it(i.e. karate, kung
fu, etc).  I am interested in it, but don't know where to start.  Any
help would be greatly appreciated.....

   thanks..


   Shawn
From: ensrit@gdr.bath.ac.uk (R I Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Counters
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:20:08 GMT
Organization: School of Mechanical Engineering, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>
>My view, and that of m.a. people I have discussed this with (some of 
>whom are GOOD), is that dan level and above has protective value on
>the street, but below this, m.a. training can be a liability due to
>an undeserved sense of invulnerability even against untrained but 
>practised thugs.

I don't think you can draw a line that easily. Some kup grades are
perfectly capable of defending themselves and some dan grades are not.
It is true that "a little knowledge is dangerous" in most cases but
gaining a black-belt can sometimes reset one's sense of invulnerability.

Since training can be "irrelevant" on the street, "rank" must be doubly so.
--
   Richard.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: Informal Usage Survey
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:43:17 GMT

In article <Af2PIYu00VouET=n5X@andrew.cmu.edu>,
Michael Bauer <mb5o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> What do you think would be a fair price for such a yearly subscription, A, 
> B, C, D, E?
> 
>   A.  X < $25?
>   B.  $25 <= X < $50?
>   C.  $50 <= X < $100?
>   D.  $100 <= X < $500?

...

> What do you think would be a fair price for such a service, A, B, C, D, E?
> 
>   A.  X < $100?
>   B.  $100 <= X < $500?
>   C.  $500 <= X < $1,000?
>   D.  $1,000 <= X < $5,000?
>   E.  $5,000 <= X < $10,000

This is getting dangerously close to, if it is not already, prohibited
commercial use of the Internet.  While some particular subnets of the
Internet permit commercial use, many of the important "backbone"
subnets, such as NSFnet, prohibit commercial traffic.  IMHO, such a
service as you propose could not be lawfully provided at the current
time.  I would not advise setting up such a service, since it might
subject you to litigation if one of those subnets I mentioned earlier
decided to go after you.
	-Steve
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re:  Aikido, jujutsu, aiko-jutsu, etc...
Date: 21 Nov 1992 00:25:22 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 74491@apple.apple.COM, mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>In article <1ee4l8INNdfn@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>>The distinctive schools which were recruited by Kano include those specializing
>>in Shimete (constriction techniques) and Katame Waza (Grappling techniques)
>>as well as experts in Nagete (throwing techniques). 

>I study the Shao-Lin system taught by Sin The', which, in addition to 
>traditionally Shao-Lin material such as Lohan and Tiger-Crane styles,
>also includes the Four Roads of Hua Mountain, the internal 'Three
>Sister Arts' and other material, including Shaolin Chin Na and a
>style, Ground Dragon, that is much concerned with groundfighting.
>
>Overall, Master The' says that throwing, takedowns, and groundfighting
>make up about 30% of the system. However, most of the fighting styles
>that make up the system do not concentrate exclusively on one area
>of tactics in the way implied by the above categorization. Most
>of the styles are strategy-oriented rather than technique-oriented.
>Consequently, there isn't really a throwing style per se, but
>instead there are styles whose strategy involves a lot of throwing
>(together with other things).

I would suspect that most peoples have ground fighting & the like
The real question is if there is a Chinese style which literally
practices lots of constriction techniques on a partner as well as
applying asundry headlocks, armlocks, leglocks and combinations
of the three?

Still, to say that a Chinese style has some throws is not the same
thing as getting on a Judo or Jujutsu mat and taking 50-100 throws.
Even Karate has some throws, but the practice is pretty limited.

So, back to my original comment; I see the relationship between what
I term Yawara and Chin Na (they are basically one and the same except
the Japanese have [IMO] a greater emphasis on stability). I do not know
nor have seen any emphasis on Throws, Constrictions, and Grappling which
is prominent in Jujutsu (Judo) in Chinese styles. I would say that 
these Japanese arts are basically independent of Chinese styles. Any
similiarity might be coincidental. Indeed, many throws and constriction
techniques are 20th Century Japanese origin. Grappling has been influenced
by British/American catch wrestling.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura)
Subject: Re: question about history of different styles
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:35:32 GMT

Where does Aikido come from?  What are the origins of MA's in Japan?  Obviously China, but from what styles or combinations of styles?  Could anyone clear this up?  Thanx a lot in advance.
From: 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Date: 20 Nov 1992 05:30:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: eb5ts4.ebay.sun.com

I use to think that Tae Kwon Do was the ultimate self protection, but after
watching boxing such as Mike Tyson Razor Ruddock etc I cam to a conclusion
that the Undisputed Heavy Weight Champion of the world could beat the
best Heavy Weight Karate guy in a fight with out using any kicks,  But if 
kicks were allowed I know that a karate would break the knees and legs of any
boxer regardless of size.   What is the opinion of other people?

which is more superior martial arts or boxing ?


And Why?


Could Bruce Lee could had beaten Sugar Ray Leonard as a welterweight

Chuck Norris/Bill Wallace vs Marvin Hagler in a one on one any thing goes
fight including kicks and wrestling, who would win?
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re:  Aikido, jujutsu, aiko-jutsu, etc...
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:04:09 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1ee4l8INNdfn@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>The distinctive schools which were recruited by Kano include those specializing
>in Shimete (constriction techniques) and Katame Waza (Grappling techniques)
>as well as experts in Nagete (throwing techniques). 
>
>Perhaps someone familiar with the countless Chinese styles could identify those
>styles which emphasize the 3 above categories of study. I do not know of any 
>style which excels in this area other than Jujutsu (Judo).

I study the Shao-Lin system taught by Sin The', which, in addition to 
traditionally Shao-Lin material such as Lohan and Tiger-Crane styles,
also includes the Four Roads of Hua Mountain, the internal 'Three
Sister Arts' and other material, including Shaolin Chin Na and a
style, Ground Dragon, that is much concerned with groundfighting.

Overall, Master The' says that throwing, takedowns, and groundfighting
make up about 30% of the system. However, most of the fighting styles
that make up the system do not concentrate exclusively on one area
of tactics in the way implied by the above categorization. Most
of the styles are strategy-oriented rather than technique-oriented.
Consequently, there isn't really a throwing style per se, but
instead there are styles whose strategy involves a lot of throwing
(together with other things).

An example of a style with a lot of throwing techniques embedded
in it is Pa Kua Chang. Its basic strategy is to evade attacks
by going toward the attacker, turning or twisting around his weapons,
and letting his momentum set him up for a balance attack that
makes him vulnerable to a hand strike or a hard throw against
the ground. Pa Kua also includes locking and crushing techniques.

An example of a style that relies heavily on grappling is Eagle
Claw. Eagle Claw relies on deflections and grabs that turn the 
opponent's strikes into joint locks and breaks, but also uses
the punches and kicks characteristic of Northern styles.

Bodies of crushing, constricting, and controlling techniques have
not been as prominent in the material I have learned so far,
but appear in Tai Chi, Monkey, Tiger, the White Crane groundfighting
tactics, and in other places.
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: query on kundalini, kung fu, etc.
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:41:53 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


>Yeah, occultism is full of the axiom that the phenomena are
>merely distractions and that spirit is the reason for doing it.
 
     In occultism it's an axiom, but in mysticism it's learned 
through experience.  Telling someone who hasn't yet experienced it 
is also a kind of distraction..  (But hey, that's what the 
internet's for, isn't it?  Distracting ourselves?  ;-)
 
>But what is the problem with Left-Handed Tantra?  I have
>been ethically influenced by some yogis who call themselves Left-
>Handed, and if they are misusing spirituality, a sizable portion
>of my ethics might need revision.  Please elaborate on this
>Left-handed Problem.  
 
     Frankly, you probably only need to worry about the 
left-handed tantrics you meet in India.  American left-handed 
tantrics are by and large ritual practitioners who make use of the 
left-handed practices to further their own philosophies (which may 
or may not be as morally bankrupt as those of the Brotherhood of 
the Left Hand).
     An example of BLH practices that would .. erm .. "clash with 
my personal morals" is their extracting small amounts of spinal 
fluid from a (unwilling) human female and injecting it into their 
own spine..  I know that a decade ago the woman was unlikely to 
survive the operation.  I dunno if they're more humane about it 
today.
 
>Does it relate to the Sin of Separateness
>that Crowley ascribed to the Brothers of the Left Hand Path in
>what I thought was a different context?
 
     Probably not, if the context was way different.  In any case, 
I'd rather not drag Crowley into this.  I'm not one of his fans.
 
/---\ /---\ /=   /   ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
  =     =    = /    "Home is a place that keeps the rain off my computer"
  =     =    = \     B0 f- t+ w- g k s- m+ r- p-(++)     ______
  =     =    =   \                      silence = death   \bi/
                                                           \/
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:08:17 GMT
	<JON.92Nov19105944@zeus.med.utah.edu> <74530@apple.apple.COM>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <74530@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:


   In article <JON.92Nov19105944@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
   >
   >Perhaps I should mention that there is a major difference between
   >Kendo kata and Karate kata: Kendo kata are done with a partner.  This
   >forces the Kendo student to accept one single interpretation of the
   >purpose of each technique, because each technique is directly applied
   >to a real opponent.  On the other hand, having a real partner allows
   >the Kendo student to explore the realm of timing more thoroughly,
   >since imaginary opponents tend to attack us only when we're ready.

   For reference, Chinese fighting styles commonly include both
   weapon and empty hand forms performed with a partner.

Thanks for the input.  A question: Are these two-person forms named
and studied in the same way as the single-person forms?

In Wadoryu karate, we also have two person forms, but they are called
"kihon kumite" (basic sparring), and not "kata."  There are ten of
them, and they are not individually named, but just numbered.  From
what I have seen, few people study the kihon kumite as seriously as
they study the kata.  I feel this is unfortunate.

I think that two-person forms are an excellent way of learning.  The
down side of two-person forms is that you must find a good partner.
Having a lazy partner turns two-person forms into an exercise in
sloppy futility.  Having a partner with poor control, and/or an
attitude can be downright dangerous.  But when you get a good partner,
the intensity of two-person forms can be escalated almost to the level
of a real match.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Charging for training?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:30:35 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <1992Nov15.183208.28300@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu writes:

 > very much; I don't think that my enthusiasm is lessened or the quality
 > of instruction goes down because I teach for money.  
 > 
 > What is almost always better in a noncommercial school is the quality of 
 > the students, asthe instructor can boot the ones who aren't really there
 > to learn.
 > 
 > I dream of opening such a university.

Don't we all?

There's making a living, and then there's a McDojo...  Still, I belive
that if you are taught for very little, you should teach in the same
way...  What goes around, comes around.

Walker is still around.  So is that horse guy.  They just have no
money...;)  Sponsorship is the key, and sponsorship is not generally
given to non-glamorous sports.  I mean, for chrissakes!  It's hard
enough to get funding for our own tournaments!  Let alone TV coverage!

In the US, martial arts enjoy a much nicer profile (we can see that from
here) - you even have specialty magazines (Black Belt etc).  Down here,
martial arts can sometimes been seen as a dirty scody dishonourable
thing - much nicer to go with the nicer arts of boxing.  However, our
entire society is geared towards non-violence, and even boxing is not
tha popular.

Oh, for a Japanese or Korean attitude! 8-)