HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Bruckner (was Re: The BEST finale!)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:36:33 GMT

broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:
: In article <1992Dec17.055240.28207@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer) writes:
: |> In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
: |> >I just listened to Brahm's Symphony #1 over and over and over...  The  
: |> >final movement is possibly the BEST ending to a classical piece I have  
: |> >ever heard!  That sparked me to ask this question to find out what else I  
: |> >should listen to to hear some amazing endings:
: |> >
: |> >What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
: |> >
: |> 
: |> 
: |>  Mahlers' 9th
: |>  Bruckners' 8th
: |>    Both great masterpieces
: |> 
: |> 
: |>  john
: |> 
: 
: 
: 
: Bruckner ????? 
: 
: Can any good thing come from him ?

Take off your coat and step outside.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 14:14:46 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!

I put in my vote for the finale of Mahler's Ninth.

B.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Mahler novice
In-reply-to: mgn@csd.uu.se's message of 14 Dec 1992 13:14:25 GMT
Organization: pubs
Distribution: rec
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:16:28 CST

Magnus Nordin writes:

   I'm curious about Mahler and have decided to start listening to his
   symphonies. My question is: which symphonies to buy and which
   conductor(s)?

No one has mentioned Das Lied von der Erde, which probably should be
considered a symphony (there being a well-worn anecdote about Mahler's
reluctance to call something a "Ninth Symphony").  This is among
Mahler's greatest works and has a wide appeal.  Standard recommendation
(heartily endorsed here) is Klemperer.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:42:09 -0500 
From: Millie Myers <mm7a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NEWS: Pavarotti booed out of the SCALA
Distribution: na

I couldn't agree more about people who talk during live performances or
let their children make noise; such behavior is inexcusable.  But I am
troubled by the idea that a live performance is first and foremost a
recording opportunity. I expect people to behave civilly for the sake of
the performer(s) and their fellow audience members, but human beings
will, on occasion, cough or sneeze or drop a program, just as performers
will, on occasion, flub a note.  But for me, no perfect recording ever
matches the emotional involvement I get in a live performance, just
_because_ it involves the interaction of human beings, with all of their
potential failings.

Millie Myers
Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hcresnic@quads.uchicago.edu (hugh carney resnick)
Subject: Re: Music Schools
Keywords: Music Schools
Reply-To: hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:17:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.231819.881@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> boroson@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BOROSON BRAM S) writes:
>michaels@aludra.usc.edu (Michael Adam Schmidt) writes:
>
>>I have been hopping around for a while now in a number of music schools
>>and conservatory-seminar-master class-programs and have mixed results
>>from the experiences.  I know what most people consider the best programs
>>around.  These are: Juliard School
>>                    Eastman School
>>                    N. Texas State Uni.
>>                    Peabody Conservatory
>>                    Cal. State Northridge
>>                    U.S.C.
>>                    New England Conservatory
>>                    Royal Academy of Music/London
>>                    Mannes Conservatory
>>                    Northwestern University 
>>                    Manhattan School of Music
>>>******************************************************************************
>
>What about the Oberlin Conservatory?
>
>Bram Boroson
>boroson@ucsu.coloado.edu 
>
******
It really depends on what you're looking for. The above mentioned schools 
(and yes, I include Oberlin) are wonderful for practical music instruction
and performance. But there are many other areas: musicology, theory, music
criticism, composition, ethnomusicology that would point to other schools.
There is no one school that does it all the best.

hugh


-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
	  Hugh C. Resnick (hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu)
"What if I were Romeo in black jeans? What if I were Heathcliff, it's no
myth. Maybe she's just looking for someone to dance with." - Michael Penn
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
Subject: Re: Valkyrie recordings
Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:22:08 GMT

In article <BzFCry.CvM@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.161834.11532@lloyd.Camex.COM> chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
>>
>>I've finally found a way into the Ring, which is taking small chunks at a
>>time and living with them in various versions over a period of time.  So
>>I've been listening to Act I of Die Walkure incessantly (well, partly
>>cessantly, but a lot).  I love Jon Vickers Siegmund, which I find more
>>expressive than James King's and even (dare I say it?) Lauritz Melchior's.
>>I'd like to put Vickers' brain in Melchior's body, because sometimes I just
>>don't find him very artistic, though he's so incredibly capable.  I don't
>>know what the consensus was on Gary Lakes in the Met production, but I
>>wasn't unbearably moved.
>
>You may dare say it, and I rush to second you here. Jon Vickers, probably alone 
>among the latter day Wagnerian tenors, can be placed on the same footing as
>the great Melchior. I am not sure, from what you've mentioned above, if
>you're suggesting that Vickers is intelligent but somewhat lacking in
>heft(?). You've only got to listen to the last act of his Tristan with 
>Karajan to see that he had both: tremendous characterization and no one can
>fault his volume either, can one? Also listen to his Grimes for another example
>of a most credible, and totally different from Pears', realization.
>
>I haven't heard the Leinsdorf recording. I have heard the Vickers Siegmund
>in the Karajan/DG Walkure. He is, of course, the highlight of that recording,
>but that's another story. 

Vickers is one of the highlights of Beecham's Messiah (Goosens orchestration)
recorded in 1959 and now available on CD.  Nothing wimpy about his rendition
of "He shall break them".
-- 
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 
Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ
  Omen Technology Inc    "The High Reliability Software"
17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD   Portland OR 97231   503-621-3406
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich symphony recommendations
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:48:48 GMT

In article 18333@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu,  jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
>	I'm just beginning to explore Shostakovich's symphonic output.

Great music, isn't it?   :-)

>To date, I own symphonies #7 (Mata/Dallas) and #6 & #9 (Jansons/Oslo),
>and I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:
>	1.  What are the "best" recordings of his 11th and 13th?

I have yet to acquire the 13th, but I have heard two recordings of the 11th:

   1 - On CD (Delos), the Helsinki Philharmonic, under the baton of James
       DePriest.  I do like this and have seen a few recommendations for this
       release ...

   2 - On LP, the Houston Symphony Orchestra, with Leopold Stokowski.  This
       was the first recording I heard of the 11th and edges out the Delos CD,
       IMHO ... I have heard that the Houston/Stokowski is available on CD, but
       I have yet to find it ... *sigh*

>	2.  Which other of his symphonies would be most worth exploring
>(as a possible guideline, I like the 7th much more than the 6th and 9th)?
>    Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Good to have in your library are the fifth and tenth symphonies ... I have both
on CD (Telarc) with the Atlanta S.O. (Yoel Levi).  I'm sure the regulars of this
group can provide you with some other recordings as well ...

You may have seen the recent postings regarding the 7th ... if you are looking
for a GOOD recording of the 7th, obtain the 2-CD set that also has the 1st sym.
This is on the DG label with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, with Leonard Bernstein
conducting.  I can't recall ever hearing a more moving and emotional performance.
It was recorded live at Orchestra Hall in June 1988 ... worth getting.   :-)

>--jason
>

Happy listening, Jason.


Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Member, Technical Staff            | Winter Bowling Leagues 1992-1993
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From: ray.horton@tfd.gwinnett.com (Ray Horton) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: ?: Dvorak's use of PE
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:26:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Fifth Dimension - Louisville, KY - 502-423-8654
Reply-To: ray.horton@tfd.gwinnett.com (Ray Horton) 

JU>Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
JU>From: jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( )
JU>Subject: Re: ?: Dvorak's use of PENTATONIC scale?
JU>Message-ID: <1992Dec15.003819.26858@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
JU>Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:38:19 GMT

>among this and several other of his works, Dvorak loves to throw in melodies
>based on the pentatonic scale.

JU>Dvorak was really fascinated with blues and in general African-American
JU>music... (much before any significant number of White Americans)

Afro-American music, certainly, but is it too early to refer to Blues?

JU> of Hungarian and Rumanian music, I wouldn't say (anhemitonic)
                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey! That's a five-dollar word!  Can you define?

JU>pentatoniticity would be the most conspicous characteristic of Eastern
JU>European music (although I suppose if one looked hard one might find some
JU>pentatonic tunes even there too)

>Correct me if I'm wrong, this scale gives music a oriental like quality.

JU>Or Blues-like, or Irish-or-Scottish-Celtic-like, or sea-chantey-like, or...

The pentatonic scale sprang up independently in MOST cultures - from
nature's harmonic series.  Eastern Europe may have given a more exotic
slant to it eventually but it was present there also.  Many references
to folk elements by classical composers have hints of the pentatonic
scale.
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.25 #12024 . This tagline is SHAREWARE!  To Register, send me $10
                                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Carl Schuricht
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:39:16 GMT

apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
: In article <1992Dec16.140215.24482@bristol.ac.uk> plcdib@bristol.ac.uk (C D I Bertram) writes:
: >I've been reading Paul Bernhard's novel Wittgenstein's nephew. In
: >it the narrator mentions that his favourite conductor is Schuricht.
: >What is known about him? A recording of Mozart's Haffner symphony (no. 35)
: >is mentioned - is this a good recording? Is it available? 
: 
: 
: Quite a few Carl Schuricht recordings are available.  The EMI 
: Beethoven symphony box is easy to recommend.  And there is a fine 
: Missa Solemnis included in the DG Vienna Philharmonic commemoration 
: set.  Some live Bruckner recordings exist on CD, but I haven't heard 
: any of these yet.

Nor have I but I'd be interested. There is a live Beethoven 1 & 3 on
Disque Montaines, which is nothing if not interesting; I also have
studio Bruckner 7 and 9 (Turnabout and EMI) which are very fine. He
seems to be somewhat underrated these days.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Requia, pass 2
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:12:12 GMT

In article <mrqbpi8@Unify.Com> dbrus.Unify.Com.ceb@unify.uucp (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:

 >Requia I have listened to and loved:

[list of nine with conspicuous omission follows]

 >So, whose requiem am I committing a criminal act of being ignorant of?

Dvorak's!

Richard
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:40:12 GMT

On the subject of deciding the relative merits of conductors,
I wonder what criterion I should use to reach conclusions.

Is a conductor to be considered great, or near there, if he 
consistently produces very good work, preferably over a period
of decades. You know, restricting ourselves to living conductors, 
somebody like Solti. Do we rule out conductors who have a narrower
range than some others? Is versatility a virtue, or is it neither
here nor there. Is Serafin, though he's dead, not a great conductor
because he didn't conduct Beethoven. Should we consider Pinnock to be
below par because he is less versatile than, say, Levine.

Also, especially in recorded stuff, can a conductor achieve greatness
through the creation of one awesome recording so you are left admiring
and puzzled because the rest of his legacy don't match up? As an
example, Mehta's Turandot recording I think is up in the stratosphere,
but should we judge him by that or by most of his other, faceless,
recordings?

Is creating a new sort of expression, something that is made distinctive
by the stamp of the conductor, but is not as idiomatic as some would
like, "good". It is considered a virtue that Furtwangler chose tempos
slower than most of his colleagues. But, in more recent times, Sinopoli
has been criticized on the same count. Boulez, regarded by some as
supreme in a limited repertoire, is always too fast!

Anyhow, restricting myself to conductors who weren't very well known
even ten years ago, I always look out for new recordings by Sinopoli,
Hickox (how long has this guy been around?) and Rattle, among others.

					Sami Mitra
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: *HELP*  Info on Schubert's Fierabras
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:50:15 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Dec15.040648.8075@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Simon.N.McRae@dartmouth.edu (Simon N McRae) writes:
>Can anyone out there provide info on Schubert's only full-scale opera? 

I should add to my previous posting that this is *not* Schubert's
only full-scale opera.  Alfonso und Estrella, however preposterous
and unstageable, has far better claim to that title, being an _Oper_
(sung recit.) and not a _Singspiel_ (spoken dialogue).  Schubert also
wrote some operas before either of those.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian J. Haag)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:34:27 GMT

coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

>I was going to stay out of this one, because in general I find
>discussions of "*the* best X" tiresome, but seeing so many mentions of
>Mahler symphonies makes me wonder why nobody has mentioned the 4th.
>You know, like in the cliche, "I thought I had died and gone to
>heaven."

>:-), sort of -- but I also really love this piece, especially the
>final E major section.

I guess I'll throw mine in too:

Schostakovitch #7



-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Brian J. Haag                                    Senior, Department of Finance
bjh42543@uiuc.edu                                       University of Illinois 
       "Remember:  No matter where you go, there you are." -- Anonymous
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:18398 alt.conspiracy:13003
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:39:33 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Dec8.074015.8920@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>In article <870027@hprdash.rose.hp.com> paulz@hprdash.rose.hp.com (Paul Zeman) writes:
>>After reading some of the informative responses here, I suspect even
>>more strongly that Alberich and Mime are Wagner's representation of
>>Jews and their motives; an unfortunate revelation since I am also
>>starting to see the Ring as one of the towering human accomplishments.
>
>To the contrary, it's an unfortunate fact, but a fortunate revelation.
>His music was created for a purpose and that purpose was an evil one.
>Perhaps the world of Wagner's oeuvre is not a healthy place to linger.
>
>-- Brad Pierce --
>
>p.s. Note crossposting to "alt.conspiracy".

I have been listening to Wagner's music for years and find
no trace of anything antisemitic in it.  The judgement of 
history on the personal views and actions of Wagner are simply
not there musically and dramatically.  If his followers, including 
the Nazis have made something out of it, that is their business, 
but for me the music is uplifting and healthy, and I find myself 
in no way developing any antisemitic tendencies at all in listining to
it.  If that was his purpose in writing it, then, for me anyway, Wagner 
has failed utterly.

Alberich and Mime are archetypal figures that arise out of the
Ring story and music itself.  I find the identification of them
by historical analysts (and, if it is true, by Wagner himself) to
be an interesting historical sidelight, irrelavent to the Operas.

By the way, I can understand why many Jews cannot separate the historical
words and deeds of Wagner and the association of the Nazis with his 
music from the music itself.  Yet there are many Jews in Israel who
also feel as I do about the Operas and have tried, so far without
success, to have them performed there.  Sometimes spiritual genius
makes use of an unworthy human vehicle to accomplish its work.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
From: spacefox@bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Logic problems
Date: 13 Dec 92 00:06:03 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Richard Smith (r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca) wrote:
: I've noted the occasional logic problem in some postings. A couple of 
: examples of how they might go:
: 
: 1) Stravinsky admired Tchaikowsky, Boulez admires Stravinsky, therefore 
: Boulez admires Tchaikowsky.
: 
: --maybe, but doesn't follow
: 
: 2) I hate liver, therefore I hate all those who like liver.
: 
: --uh-uh.
: 
: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
: Western Business School  --  London, Ontario

in 1:
"Boulez admires Tchaikowsky" maybe a logical result if the "admires"
     function possesses transitive properties.

                                        -G. Degamo,
                                         spacefox@acs.bu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: organized music
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:52:13 EST

KRWE>I am a music performance major here at CIM/CWRU. actually, i am a double

Just curious ... what is CIM/CWRU?

    >major with chemical engineering being my second major. I just want to say
    >that i am sick and tired of the way that organized music (symphonic) is ru
    >in the United States. I am fed up with all the lack of jobs, the poor
    >wages, the shitty benefits, and especially THE ATTITUDES. Look people, if
    >you are going to be in music, be in it for the right reason. Music is not 
    >power struggle, it is expression. I only want to play, not to conquor. I
    >was going to go to Eastman, but i decided against it due to the above

Sorry to sound trite, my friend, but life is what you make of it.
Circumstances sometimes deal us a crummy hand, and endless politicking
in any organization will eventually doom it: the deadweight tend to hang
around while the brightest go elsewhere. I've found in any group, there
tends to be one or two who can really mess things up -- you've got to
find some way to isolate their negativity from yourself so you can do
the things your inner being needs to do.

    >conditions. The perfect job for me would be to play professionally, but,
    >let's face it, it's just not practical,that's why i chose double-major, an
    >i truely feel sorry for all the poor souls who are in music alone and will
    >have no job, or a shitty one at best.THOSE OF YOU WITH ATTITUDES, and you
    >know who you are, GET A REAL LIFE! your attitudes make you all the worst
    >bunch of musicians to walk the planet. I hope you all end up working for
    >K-mart.

On the other hand, if you're saying the world owes you a living ...
forget it! It just ain't so.

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: shire@dorsai.com (Kenneth Shire)
Subject: Re: Various _Goetterdaemmerung_s 
Keywords: Janowski, Karajan, Solti
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:44:36 GMT

> take issue with.  (The exact opposite of the Met production, in other
> words.)
> 
Having suffered through the Met Ring from its inception I was really 
surprised and frankly disappointed at the NYT review of the first 
December Walkure performance.  Ed. Rothstein mentioned that there were 
dissenting voices when the Ring was first mounted, but that the Met's 
"traditional" (read unimaginative!) staging would outlast all the 
"innovative" (read thoughtful and most often European) Rings.  Living in 
New York one would think that there's this terrific banquet of opera, 
what with the Met and NYCO, and the small companies.  But in fact, 
there's little real excitement here because the current administration at 
the Met is simply not willing to take a risk on the younger directors.  
And boy, do they know how to cash in on a "good" thing.  Like the 
crassest salesmen, when the box office and critics decided that the 
Tannhauser was good for business, they hired Otto Schenk to do all their 
Wagner.  We now have an almost complete Wagner cycle of the dullest, 
least insightful productions imaginable.  But they sure do obey Wagner's 
instructions.  Too bad nobody at the Met bothered to read about Wagner 
and his disappointment in the stage pictures in his own 1876 Bayreuth 
Ring.  From what I hear, Seattle and their festival seem to be the only 
company willing to do justice to Wagner in America by paying homage to 
Wagner's principle artistic instruction, "Kinder, shaft neues!"