HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz)
Subject: Re: (Transaction costs are *not* part of the expenses?)
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 18:17:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.022007.17556@88open.ORG> sartin@88opensi.UUCP (Rob Sartin) writes:
>>>> Transaction costs are *not* part of the expenses for mutual funds.
>
>I must have missed the original article, but if this is exactly (and
>completely) what was said, then it's ambiguous.  Fidelity probably
>answered the question: "Are the transaction cost incurred by the fund
>included in the expenses?"  Morningstar, on the other hand, is answering:
>"Are the sales and back end loads included in the expenses used in
>making yield calculations?"  Both answers are correct.
>
>Rob

To state my point more clearly: Transaction costs are *not* included in the
expenses, and therefore high turnover funds do not have to have higher
expense ratios than low turnover funds. Loads are also not included in
the expense ratio, since they are only paid once. Expense ratios only
include management fees, 12b-1 (marketing) fees, and administrative
expenses. 

As Rob points out, expenses do affect the yield of the
fund, since yield is calculated as dividends and interest on portfolio
minus expenses.

To give an example, Fidelity OTC has turnover of > 200%, but expense
ratio is only 1.17%. Fidelity Emerging Growth had turnover 1/92 thru
9/92 of 558% but expense ratio was only 1.12% (figures from
Morningstar).

The bottom line: Both expenses and turnover are drags on performance,
and their effects must be considered separately. 

Don



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Katz                                .         Physical
                                       .- / \ -.      Sciences
University of Wisconsin - Madison   ./'  /+-+\  `\.       Laboratory   E-MAIL
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: sbrenner@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (scott.d.brenner)
Subject: Re: Quicken sources
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:48:42 GMT

In article <4020014@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> cola@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Ken Colasuonno) writes:
>
>Anybody know of cheap places to purchase Quicken (for DOS)?  I found
>one source (EggHead software 1-800-egghead) that sells it for $40.  
>

While we're on this subject, does anyone know of a UNIX package that's
like Quicken?  Public domain or shareware would be nice, especially
if ftp'able.  I called Intuit but was told there's no UNIX version and
no plans to develop one.

a T d H v A a N n K c S e

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott D. Brenner                  AT&T Consumer Communications Services
sbrenner@attmail.com                          Basking Ridge, New Jersey
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Looking for good investment book!
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:47:02 GMT

bair@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (matthew.a.bair) writes:


>I'm looking for a good book on investing.  I have very little knowledge of
>the markets and how they work.  I'm looking for something that covers the
>basics and has some practical advice and suggestions for someone who is just
>entering the investing "arena."  Would also be helpful if long-term apsects
>of retirement concerns are addressed too.  I am planning on continuing my
>education in this area further, but I just need to get my first foot through
>the door.  Any help is appreciated.

>Thanks,
>Matthew Bair
>(708)979-3170
>AT&T Belll Labs
>bair@ihlpm.att.com

I thought the book "Common stocks for common sense investors"
by William Mitchell and James Clarence ws pretty good.
The advice is pretty sound. They explain myths about the market,
what you can expect, portfolio management, risk management.
They boil investing down to 4 rules, which I think are:

1. Choose appropriate level of risk.
2. Diversify over industries and companies.
3. Diversify over time.
4. Minimize transaction costs.

They pay almost no attention to stock
selection. I think they say something like "if you like hamburgers,
buy MacDonalds. You can also look at value line or other
investment surveys". 

-Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu
From: doug_d@sdd.hp.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Days COGS in Inventory. what??
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:39:54 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdl126.sdd.hp.com

  I found "Days COGS in Inventory" entry under key ratios in a printout of
  a company profile. What does this mean? My guess is COGS = Cost of Goods Sold
  What are the implications and norms? The company I am looking at is
  Symbol Technologies and its Days COGS in Inventory are 1990=151.22 and
  1991 = 151.30. Thanks for any help

  doug
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jaeastman@anl.gov (Jeff Eastman)
Subject: Monetta
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:02:34 GMT

Does anyone have any opinions on the Monetta mutual fund? Their
literature sounds good: no load, approximately 1.5% annual
management fee, good performance over the last 5 years (but
not good this year), and low initial minimum investment ($100).
Is there any reason not to open an account with them?

_______________
Jeff Eastman
jaeastman@anl.gov
_______________
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Latest IBM Performance
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:02:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

IBM vacillated between 46 and 49 this week with heavy volume.  Looks
to me like everyone is confused as to the correct value for the stock.
Unless there are significant developements, I'm still predicting IBM
will hit 55+ by August as Wall Street moves more in line with reality.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ 08807-2618

Score: 0, Diff: 1, clong killed by a Harvard Math Team on  1
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: tony2@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (gozdz,antoni s)
Subject: Re: _Inside_Out_: a tale of insider trading
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 14:24:31 GMT

In article <1jnh5gINN8i6@gambier.rick.cs.ubc.ca> c6y092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Julien Rene Sellgren) writes:
>I am currently reading _Inside Out_, by Dennis Levine, and I my 
>jaw is hanging.  
>
>It is a true story about Wall Street during the roaring eighties,
         ^^^^
>when the markets and the Merger and Aquisition Business were
>booming.  Levine tells a factual tale about his carreer both as a
                          ^^^^^^^
>corporate deal-maker, and as a private inside trader.  He was
>the first of many big players to get busted for his illegal trades. 
>
>What amazes me is how much money these guys were pulling in, and 
>how easy it was for them to do it.   Before he got caught and 
>arrested in 1986, his insider deals were netting one million
>dollars +.  Incredible.  Throughout the whole book, he constantly
>re-iterates how easy it was: He simply went to work, and when
^^^^^^^^^^^^
>he found out through the normal course of daily business that
>a company was beeing 'aquired' he would take up a position in
                       ^^^^^^^
>that company via his secret account in the Carabean.  When the 
                                            ^^^^^^^^
>takeover announcement was made public, he would sell out for an 
>incredible profit... 
>
>The cool thing about this book is that he goes into great detail
     ^^^^
>about the deals and the players he was involed with.  I am finding
>it fascinating to learn how all these companies (whos names
>I recongnize) were traded around like hockey cards by these billion
>dollar tycoons.
>
>I am not advocating insider trading, but this is a fascinating story.
>
>-Julien
>
>

How can you be so naively fascinated and believe a
convicted crook doing his time in jail, who is seeking
publicity by writing a tell-all book (like almost every
notorious criminal seems to be doing)? Just wait to see
his story on TV in one of those slimy crime-of-the-week
movies... Read more, but not the junk written by the
perpetrators, but by somewhat more reputable authors.

Tony
tony2@cc.bellcore.com
From: txn@sirius.larc.nasa.gov (Troung Nguyen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: 20th Century Ultra & Nasdaq
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:25:35 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.larc.nasa.gov


I learned that NASDAQ is near the record high right now, and someone 
is predicting that there will probably be a correction in the near 
future.  I currently have less than $3000 in Twentieth Century
Ultra, which invests heavily in Nasdaq companies.  Do you think it's
a good time to sell some of the Ultra's shares?  What do you think 
the level of the correction will be, 15%?

Thank you,

Truong Nguyen
txn@radar0.larc.nasa.gov
 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert)
Subject: O'Neill's book (WAS Re: how good is investor)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 22:04:52 GMT

>> I read O'Neill's book (he's the publisher of IBD), in which he explains his
>> investing method. The guy may be good at investing, but he sure can't write!
>> One of the most poorly written books I've run across!
>
>	Agree !!  I just finish reading that book, and I don't have the
>slighest idea of what he is talking about regarding watching the market.  He
>also does some promotion for his paper IBD in that book.

Yes, although the CANSLIM method he proposes is, IMHO, fundamentally sound
and has contributed to some nice gains on my behalf.  I agree wholeheartedly
about the `technical' buy/sell method he supposedly preaches, however...
I looked at those damn charts for weeks and still couldn't figure out
what the hell he was talking about!


Matt Bohnert                 | Ron : Nice to meet you too... your name is?
Building 500, Room 501B      |		
Stanford University          | Don : This is Samuel Pierce, Mr. President.
Stanford, CA    94035        |	     You appointed him to be Secretary of
415.723.4490                 |       Housing & Urban Development.
bohnert@leland.stanford.edu  | 
			     |   - Overheard in Rose Garden Party, c. 1984


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: Daylight Robbery: GT Telecommunications Fund
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:08:40 GMT

 I recently chanced upon the prospectus of the GT Global Telecomm
Fund. This fund invests in companies around the world that have
a stake in the telcommunications revolution. I thought it is
a great way to play the globalization trend.

Until I called them up to ask about their expenses.

The fund charges 4.75% as sales charge on every single dollar
you invest into the fund. Further they have about 3.00% expenses
towards admin, 12b-1 and research. In total they squeeze the
investors for about 8% on their investments.

Now, am I missing something or is this fund an exception to
the general load funds that levy the sales charge only on the
initial purchase.

Satya Prabhakar
--
___________________________________________
Happiness, dear Phaedrus, is a passed pawn!
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster)
Subject: Re:      Re: The End of the Bull Market
Originator: usenet@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:24:37 GMT
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

>
>I give up.  All you bulls were right.  Bill and Hillary will save the
>country.  After pooh-poohing Chris Long last week regarding his IBM
>purchase, I have changed my mind.  I bought IBM yesterday, and am also
>looking for a bounce to 55.  After pointing out the ridiculous
>valuation levels on the Dow and S&P, I bought an index fund yesterday.
>After repeatedly decrying the frothy speculation on the Nasdaq, only
>to see it march up 30% in 3 months, I bought Ultra yesterday.
>

To me, the capitulation of bears, especially jumping into volitile 
stocks and funds in the hopes of "not missing out any further" is the
sure sign of a top.  However I hear that (as of last week) investment
advisor bullish sentiment is still only 40% bullish, so this is not
a widespread trend yet (bullish sentiment over 55ish%).

Your results may vary.

Keith

-----------------------------------------------
capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Subject: DJI Yield vs Bond Yield Gap Indicator
Originator: suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre)
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:03:10 GMT


A recent issue (probably Jan 93, but I mislaid it) of Technical
Analysis of Stocks and Commodities contains an article which uses the
gap between the Dow Jones Industrials dividend yield and a high grade
bond average yield.  As the yield gap widens, bonds will become more
attractive than stocks to some buyers and vice versa.  This observation
can be quantified into a timing indicator.  Also, rising interest rates
bode ill for the stock market but not necessarily instantaneously.
Sort of like a pendulum can keep swinging in one direction for a while,
but eventually swings back the other way.

The raw data is available in Barron's in the Market Laboratory/Bonds
section.  Look for Stock/Bond Yield Gap in the column titled Weekly
Bond Statistics.  Compute a four week moving average of this number.
Then take the current average and subtract the average from 26 weeks
ago.  Buy signal is +0.20 and rising, sell signal is -0.20 and
falling.  (Be careful with the negative numbers.)

The current status is "buy" which resulted from a signal on 7/17/92.
The gap reached a high of +1.08 on 10/2/92 and has been declining.  The
current reading (using the 1/25/93 Barron's data) is +0.23.

The signals are infrequent, perhaps one switch per year or so.

The results shown in the article were from 1981 through some time in
1992.  Buy and hold on the S&P 500 generated about an 11% compounded
rate of return.  The switch strategy generated about a 13% compounded
rate of return.  Dividends received from the S&P 500 while on a buy
signal were not considered, and interest earned in the money market 
was not considered while on a sell signal.  S&P dividends were not
considered for the buy and hold strategy.  In short, only price data
was used in the study.

I looked at all the signals that I had charts for which went back to
about 1985.  They were, in general, imprecise from a short term (day or
two) sense which is to be expected.  The sell early in 1987 looked
particularly poor -- the S&P 500 index was rising rapidly and was well
above its 200 and 50 day moving averages.  I'd certainly suggest
delaying a day or two before implementing any signal and possibly
employing some short term timing tools.

A broad indicator like this one doesn't require immediate action.  The
rate of decrease seems to have slowed a little which suggests a sell
signal might not occur for another 2 months or so.  A big jump in the
DJI will increase the spread and tend to trigger a sell signal.  What
should be done now?  Perhaps nothing, but a somewhat cautious attitude
is certainly suggested and it certainly seems like this is not the time
to jump in with both feet and 100 percent margin.

FYI and no guarantees :-)
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
From: fajack@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: how good is investor business daily ?
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:42:43 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

	Anyone out there subscribe to the Investor Business Daily ?  How is it
compare to the Wall Street Journal ?  
	I have access to the Wall Street Journal, and thinking maybe one
additional source of information may help.

	Any information is appreciated.  

Jack Teh
From: helen@access.digex.com (jayne levin)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: disc. broker vs. full-serv.
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:15:47 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Summary: Looking for performance comparison
Keywords: brokers

Does anyone know of any research/report that shows whether individual
investors do better at a discount broker or full-service broker? Would be
interested in any comments, too.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhsu@eng-nxt03.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason Hsu)
Subject: Re: Act Now to Fight the Deficit
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:38:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.193802.11812@adobe.com> hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon  
Hamachi) writes:
> I've read "Bankruptcy 1995: The Coming Collapse of America and How to  
Stop It"  
> by Harry Figgie, and it scares the hell out of me.  According to Figgie,  
the  
> most likely results of inaction on the deficit are:
> 
>        A catastrophic market panic
> 	   Hyperinflation
> 	   20% of American jobs gone
> 	   Social Security payments cut or eliminated
> 	  
> Figgie writes, "This is not an exaggeration.  In fact, I may be  
understating  
> the degree of calamity that will befall most Americans.  It's going to  
be  
> awful, and whatever you think I mean by awful, you can be sure that it's  
going  
> to be worse."
> 
	According to the book The Wall Street Gurus by Peter Brimelow  
(which I highly recommend reading), Charles Allmon, author of The Growth  
Stock Outlook newsletter, said that when he attends a  
world-is-coming-to-an-end conference, he offers to bet the speaker $10,000  
that the apocalypse will not happen.  Nobody ever accepted his bet.
	Figgie is correct that the national debt is a major problem.   
However, I agree with a Business Week book review that if Figgie's  
apocalyptic prophecy fails to come true, deficit fighting may lose its  
credibility.
From: bnguyen@airmics.gatech.edu (Binh Nguyen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: YOUR stock picks
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:48:54 GMT
Reply-To: bnguyen@airmics.gatech.edu (Binh Nguyen)

In article <1993Jan26.181956.2552@agora.com>, conway@agora.com (Mark
Conway) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan25.140330.11217@cbnews.cb.att.com>  
|> lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib) writes:
|> > In article <1993Jan22.163942.19832@spectrum.xerox.com>  >
|> > >Rio Hotel & Casino ( NASDAQ, RIO )
|> > >The Gap ( NTSE, GAP )
|> >    
|> > Body Shop 
|> > 
|> 
|> Broderbund Software (BROD-Nasdaq)	Recent Price: 47 1/4
|> ---------------------------------	--------------------
|> 
|> Educational software company has great products such as Where in ? Is
|> Carmen SanDiego and interactive CD/ROM books such as Grandma and Me. 
For  
|> the first time I heard an analyst mention this stock since it went
public  
|> about a year ago (one of the technology analysts on Wall Street Week
last  
|> Friday).  Their software alone is best-selling, but I think it's a
good  
|> future play on the interactive television market.


Because BROD will soon stop distributing Maxis products, what's your
expectation of its financial performance?  Will it be able to sustain
its outstanding earning momentum?
From: Bill.Burgess@p0.f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Burgess)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: Blinks in Ontario
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:17:23 GMT
Reply-To: Bill.Burgess@p0.f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:229/401.0 - The Connection HST!, Oshawa ON
X-Fidonet: Blink Talk Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 26359

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Willie, just a note to say that the term "blink" is used and understood
by those who attended the school for the blind in Brantford, Ontario.
Other Canadians who attended residential school in the west, namely
Jericho Hill in the Vancouver area have not been on the echo lately, so
we cannot get a verification from them as to their use of the term.  No
need to change the echo name.  As you stated, it is up to individual
sysops to name it in whatever manner best describes it for them.
Nothing seen in my area would be viewed in a negative fashion for the
name chosen.  TTYL
Bill

... This tagline is SHAREWARE!  To register, send me $10

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!229!401.0!Bill.Burgess
Internet: Bill.Burgess@p0.f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org
From: Maurie.Heald@f96.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Maurie Heald)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Help needed!
Date: 20 Jan 93 17:22:19 GMT
Reply-To: Maurie.Heald@f96.n343.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:343/96 - Information Laborat, Seattle WA
X-Fidonet: Able News Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 26306

[This is from the AbleNews Conference]

                    *******INFORMATION NEEDED******

             Consumer Report type and/or Personal Experience
                                 of
           Vans, Mini-Vans, Hand Controls and Wheelchair Lifts
                      (and combinations of above)

                    *******************************

                                                  .........Maurie Heald

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!343!96!Maurie.Heald
Internet: Maurie.Heald@f96.n343.z1.fidonet.org
From: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Phil Scovell)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Caller I D
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:18:01 GMT
Reply-To: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/810.0 - Electronic Library, Denver CO
X-Fidonet: Blink Talk Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 26365

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Walter,

You do in fact have to have caller I D to use the program but you do not
have to purchase, or otherwise rent, the display screen because the program,
along with its hardware, takes the place of the screen.  CAll blocker, the
feature which allows you to block a caller from ever calling your number
again, is $4 per month in Colorado right now.  I said in my earlier post
that I would be able to save that charge because the program will do that
for you but I believe I may have been incorrect about that.  You probably
have to have that feature turned on too, just like you do with Caller I D,
in order to invoke that command on the phone line.
Anyhow, I'll find out more in a day or two when it comes in the mail.  I
hope it works with speech as well as they claim.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810.0!Phil.Scovell
Internet: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org