From: hamilton@hydra.cs.gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: The purpose and meaning of circumcision
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:00:07 GMT
Reply-To: hamilton@gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50)
Organization: GM Research Labs, Warren, MI

In article <1992Apr8.155223.29955@portland.mdc.unisys.com> tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.092721.15746@pbs.org> btiffany@pbs.org writes:
>>

Bruce said:
>>You didn't answer the question.  WHERE did Jesus say the nation of Israel
>>would be "punished by God" for rejecting the Messiah?
>
Tom replied:

>Bruce,
>
>Get real.  I quoted sections of Matthew 23 and 24 and Matthew 27:25.  Now
>you have the gall to ignore the quotes, no comment - no nothing, and then
>come back and ask your question AGAIN.... 

As I recall, Tom's statement that started the exchange was:
>
>>>The blood of the prophets, and the blood of the Messiah, was paid for by
>>>that generation.

My NASB says, starting @ Matt 23:33:

You serpents, you brood of vipers (from 23:25, He's talking to the scribes 
and pharisees) how shall you escape the sentance of Hell?

Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some 
of them you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your 
synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth,
from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of 
Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the alter.

Two observations:

1.  He does not say that that generation would *pay* for the blood of
    the righteous - only that the *guilt* of all the righteous blood
    would fall on them.

2.  He does not include Himself in His list of the righteous. (Obviously
    I'm not trying to imply that He isn't righteous - only that He
    does not include Himself in a list of the righteous, probably because
    their guilt has already been established by their past crimes
    against the righteous from Abel to Zechariah (from A to Z :_) sorry - 
    couldn't resist that one. This group could use a little humor.)

So it would seem to me that your claim fails on two counts, Tom. Certainly
they are guilty. But pay? for blood of the Messiah?

I looked at the remainder of the passage, but didn't see anything that would 
change my understanding of the verses I quoted.


>>
>>This is really a strange mutation of "Christianity".  ...
>
>Pay attention to the Bible, Bruce.  I offered texts; Matthew 23:33-24-2;
>Matthew 27:25 (please comment on that one ... don't ignore it again).  It's
>all there in black and white.  Comment on the passages for a change.  Give
>us the benefit of your extensive MJ background and theology.  Or are we
>dealing with a problem of too much "minute detail" again?
>
>Please how us that you really believe the Bible by dealing with the texts
>now and then, and that you just don't rely on your MJ traditions.
>
Ouch! The way you guys go at each other makes me cringe! I'm glad I
know that you both love the Lord. I hope you will always be able to love
one another. 

please reply to hamilton@gmr.com
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Bill Hamilton                  |
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