From: minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Turkish Journalist Assasinated [sci-poster]
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:01:03 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <lmdn7tINNstg@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, forghani@condor.ccrit.doc.ca (B. Forghani (Idacom/HP)) writes:
> 
>>Ramin Shamsili writes:
>>
>>>Question : Is there any where in Islamic instruction and rules which makes it
>>>HalAl or MobAh to take the life of a journalist with different way of thinking
> 
> Zafar replies
> 
>>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! What the hell kind of a question is this? Does
>>Islam allow you to kill someone just because you disagree with him/her?
> 
> You are wrong Zafar:
> 
> 
> From electronically scanned versions of M.H.  Shakir's translation of the
> Qur'an:
> 
> 
> 004(Woman).89. They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, 
> so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from
> among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way;
> but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you
> find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
> 
> I take the previous verse very personally because I am a disbeliver and
> I like other people to disbelieve in all the Abrahamic/Semitic/Organized
> (whatever you call them) religions because in my opinion they made more damage
> to the planet earth and humanity than any other element.  Note that I respect
> respectable muslims personally as people and my own father is a beleiver and I
> just don't beleive in what they beleive in. However, because of my intelectual
> disagreemet I should be killed if I fly my home and get in Allah's way(IRI).
> 
> 
> Here is how a muslim should treat a poor idolater:
> 
> 009(Repentance).5. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the
> idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
> besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if
> they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their
> way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
> 
> Here, clearly, anyone which includes a journalist that is and idolater must
> be ambushed and killed if he doesn't repent and pay blackmail. I am sure
> that in your world nobody should give a damn about an idolater and he/she is
> not entitled to his/her own opinions. Also, you do not consider the case of
> an idolater a very simple disagreement with yourself. How merciful your Allah
> is!
> 
> Behdad

well behdad, i am sorry to tell you this but YOU are the one who is wrong.
please read the verse previous to 4:89. 4:88 was revealed during the battle of
uhud, in case you don't know what i am talking about, that is the second battle
the muslims faought against the meccans. they lost it. in fact 4:88-4:91 i
believe is in reference specifically to uhud. this was when the muslims were
expecting a certain group of people (won't say who they were, i don't want to
risk being called a racist) to fulfill their treaty by helping the muslims
against the meccans. so the verses were revealed to say basically this, "when
you fight with them in the war kill them unless they join you." that is all
that is saying. you may feel that what i am saying is just another
interpretation, but the fact of the matter is that most of the ulema (i
differentiate between a mullah and an alim) wouldn't give your interpretation
even half of a consideration.


as far as 9:5, you did not give the verse following it:

if one amongst hte pagans asks you for asylum, grant it to him os that he may
hear the word of allah and then escort him to where he can be secure: taht is
because they are men without knowledge.

so behdad, it is not as bad as you make it out to be. however ther is still
another problem in even this way of looking at it. please read 9:1-4 as well. 

here goes:

1. a declaration of immunity from allah and his apostle to those of the pagans
with whom you have contracted mutual alliances:-

2. go ye, then for four months backwards and forwards throughout the land but
know ye that YE CAN NOT FRUSTRATE ALLAH BY YOUR FALSEHOOD, but that allah will
cover with shame those who reject him.

3. and an announcement from allah and his apostle to the people assembled on
the day of the great pilgimage,- that allah and his apostle dissolve the treaty
and obligations with the pagans if then ye repent, it were best for you but if
ye turn away. know ye taht ye can not frustrate allah, and proclaim a grievous
penalty to those who reject faith.

4. but the treaties are not dissolved with those pagans with whom you have
enterred into alliance and who have not subesquently failed you in aught nor
aided anyone against you. so fulfill your engagements with them to the end of
their term: for allah loveth the righteous.


9:1-6 are talking clearly and unambiguously about an event where the quraish
had broken some agreement, however there were some people who kept their
agreements. for those people who broke their treaties with the muslims (this
was a time of war again) the muslims were not obliged to keep their end of the
deal and they were told to fight them. however with the few pagans who did keep
their end of the bargain, the muslims were obliged to keep their word as well.
as for those pagans who the muslims were going to fight, if they, like 9:6,
said, were to seek protection with the muslims, then the muslims were obliged
to give them protection.

the specific situation that these verses are referring to i believe was when
the romans were going to invade arabia, muhammad made alliances with jews,
christians, and pagans. the pagans however saw this as an opportunity to
destroy the muslim nation so they renegged, and this is the background
situation that the verse is talking about.

now as far as what most muslims in the know say, what i am giving once again is
not just a personal interpretation, i recommend you brush up on your history.
and once again, most ulama wouldn't even bother to give what you said a second
thought.


sincerely
zafar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian