From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advantages
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:01:20 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

In article <1992Nov11.185411.945@news2.cis.umn.edu>, thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>How many people really find this intuitive?  A Weak-Willed character can
>easily have a stronger will than a Strong-Willed character.  The description
>of the advantage puts it in absolute terms, when it's all relative.
>The GURPS description says that Joe is firm-willed, and Josephine is
>gullible, when perhaps Joe has a will of 10 and Josephine has one of 14.
>
>>Alternately you can rule that IQ <> Will and make a new Will stat
>>that starts at 10.
>
>Set Will at 10 and use the Strong and Weak Will rules to modify it.

An interesting idea, but you should also change the point value of IQ to make
up for it, and personally, I don't want to try to deal with the problems that
could cause in my games.

[more stuff deleted]

>There are certain advantages and disadvantages that can modify some of these.
>By using Strong and Weak Will, you can tailor the Will to any desired value.

That's certainly true.

>You can raise, but not lower, Perception.  Therefore, if you want a brilliant
>scientist, he or she will be very perceptive, whether you like it or not.

This is just a load of bull.  Absent-Mindedness modifies perception.

>You can have a magician with average IQ and some magical talent, but if you
>want the magician to have great magical talent you need a high IQ.

Yes, but since ANY magician worth his salt (in any genre where there are
magicians) in the relevant literature ALWAYS has above average IQ, what's the
problem?  IMHO, this is one of the few universal constants in fantasy
literature.  If you want to change it, be my guest, but I think that this is a
good enough reason to build it into the system.

>Given that most people don't have many ads and disads, most perceptive GURPS
>characters will be highly intelligent, socially skilled, and strong-willed,
>and most socially inept characters will be unperceptive, non-intellectual,
>and weak-willed.  Again, I don't think these features are so strongly
>correlated.

Here's the problem.  You are ASSUMING that people are not going to design their
characters to have different levels of perception, will, IQ, etc., and then you
essentially blame this on the system itself.  This is faulty logic at best...
if people want to design a character where all of these things are different,
they can.  What's the problem?

>Also, it is difficult to impossible to set up some characters:  a brilliant
>scientist who is not very perceptive, a smooth-talking multi-talented con man
>with no talent for math or science, or said con man with low perception.

Bull.  To reduce the perception, you can take Absent-Mindedness.  For
smooth-talking, add Voice and Charisma, and maybe some good looks as well. 
That depends, of course, on what you mean by multi-talented... if you don't
want him to have any talent for math or science, just don't spend any points on
those skill areas, and you have the character you want.  I can and HAVE built
the first two characters you describe here, and the third is just the second
with Absent-Mindedness tagged on, perhaps....  If you read the description for
Absent-Mindedness, it really describes the state of not paying much attention
to the world around you, except for what you're working on/interested in/etc.
at the moment.

>In Hero, for example, there are separate stats for intellectual ability,
>social ability, and willpower, and perception can be largely divorced from
>intellectual ability.  It isn't perfect, but it works with a reasonable
>number of stats.

Yup.  And GURPS works with an even more reasonable number of stats.

>
>DHT
-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy