HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Bowman says No!(USA Today WAS wrong!)
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 17:57:34 GMT

In <1992Aug18.160951.26681@adobe.com>, Sherri Nichols writes:

>>But your opinion of him seemed to be based on an erroneous history of the
>>process.  You claimed that he was a corporate raider type, and the history
>>doesn't support this.

Actually, my understanding of the episode was distorted because I had forgotten
the chapter about the threatened move to Oakland.  Anyway, Baldwin hasn't
shown himself to be someone who wants to latch on to a team and stay there.
Perhaps I'm being a bit too judgmental, but I based my opinions on what I have
heard and observed, and from comments by people who know more about the man
than I do.  History *will* show Baldwin as a journeyman--at least to date.
He has *appeared* to be after a quick buck.  He may prove me wrong someday...

>>And I'll guarantee you that the folks in Minnesota are glad Baldwin left...
>>judging by the reaction I saw in the '91 Stanley Cup final, Norm Green was
>>practically revered up there.  Far more than I can say for Baldwin...

>Baldwin wasn't there long enough for the folks in Minnesota to form any
>opinion of him.   Norm is revered mostly because he was lucky enough to
>have the Stars go to the final right after he bought them.

Correct.  What I meant to say is that they are certainly happy that things
turned out as they did.  And Green was, of course, lucky.  I think part of the
reason Baldwin such a reputation is that many thought he was trying to get a
high price out of Green and make a quick buck.  Maybe he really intended to
stay with the Stars and then wound up in disagreement with Green, but when
you look at the overall resume of Howard Baldwin, that's hardly a foregone
conclusion.

I'm sure they may not dislike Baldwin in Minnesota, but they certainly aren't
sheeding tears over his departure, seeing how things turned out for the Stars
in '91.

Just one person's humble opinions...

>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com

Tim Irvin  j056600@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
***************************************************************************
St. Petersburg:  Just say NO.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Adams division Analysis and Predictions
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:28:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.232454.17716@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.230746.3497@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>When your playoff record is about 1 win and 15 losses...and you get
>>your team eliminated from the playoffs in a single round over and
>>over again...it is kind of hard to earn a #1 job.
>
>And exactly how good were those Quebec and Washington teams?  If the Sharks
>make the playoffs this year (unlikely) and the next (possible), and
>lose 8 straight in those two playoffs with Jeff Hackett in nets, would you
>call Hackett, who probably has to be a super goalie to get the Sharks into
>the playoffs this season, a "proven loser"?
>

Some of those Quebec and Washington teams finished in 1st or 2nd place
within their respective divisions...this is not a San Jose scenario.

In Washington, Malarchuk had one of the best defensive defense cores
in the league with Rod Langway and Scot Stevens in front of him and
he still was unable to win a single playoff game.  In one year in
Quebec, Malarchuk had played most of the games for the Nordiques, and
choked big time in the first two games of a series against Hartford,
forcing the Nordiques to turn to the backup Gosselin, and Quebec
went on to win the series.

This is not a single year scenario...but one repeated over and over
for a period of more than five years.

Gerald
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Bowman says No!(USA Today WAS wrong!)
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:44:44 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug15.160016.2517@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>Point the finger where the blame is due...and that is Howard Baldwin...

Now it's my turn to say Amen.  I haven't trusted that guy from day one.  I
think all his wonderful talk is just that...talk.  The only big plans he has
for the Penguins is to gut the team of talent, unload it, and take the money
and run.

Lori
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: djung@fraser.sfu.ca (Derek Shew Lon Jung)
Subject: Re: 1994 Olympic teams?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:02:58 GMT

832989@BOOTH.USASK.CA (Glenn Chin) writes:

>CANADA	J. Sakic	M. Lemieux	R. Tocchet
>	L. Robitaille	W. Gretzky	E. Lindros
>	D. Hawerchuk	M. Messier	C. Neely/R. Courtnall
>	G. Roberts	D. Gilmour	T. Fleury
>			B. Sutter

>		S. Smith	A. MacInnis
>		S. Stevens	E. Desjardins
>		D. Manson	J. Patrick
>		M. Tinordi

>			B. Ranford
>			P. Roy
>			S. Burke

WHAT???!!!  No Kirk McLean????  Now, I know that Sean Burke has a load of
international experience.  He played in the Olympics.  But could that have
been because *he wasn't playing in the NHL*????  Kirk McLean, on the other hand,
carried the Canucks to their best ever record last season, and has been
acknowledged as the second best goaltender in the NHL in two of the past
four seasons (runner-up to Roy in Vezina voting in 88-89 and 91-92).

And yes, I'd perhaps support Belfour as a contender for a spot as well.  

And how 'bout Trevor Linden on a wing?  Plays with the same style as Rick
Tocchet, but much younger and faster.

>- A balanced team with lots of experience (too old?), but may need more speed to
>  keep up with the Russians.
>- Gretzky and Messier are essentially sentimental selections, since they will
>  both be 33 by the time the Lillehammer Games roll around.  The quality of the
>  competition precludes other sentimental choices such as Coffey and Bourque.

You would honestly take James Patrick over Ray Bourque???  Mind you, I rather
like the choices of Manson and Tinordi, some size and toughness on defense to
intimidate the smaller European forwards.  


Derek Jung
E-mail:  djung@sfu.ca
From: Tom_Gowdyk@mindlink.bc.ca (Tom Gowdyk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: John Kordic (Toronto Star Article)
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:45:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

You're dreaming if you think he would have gone to jail for several years if
Kordic did those things on the street.  The courts are even more laughable than
the NHL in enforcing rules.  This incident Kordic was involved in, had he
survived, would have netted him, at most, 6 months probation.  It would not
have gotten him the help he so obviously needed, nor would it have done
anything to straighten out his self destructive ways.

Kordic got himself into the alcohol and steroid abuse.  Why should the NHL take
responsibility for his actions.  He was a big boy and had the ability in
himself to clean up if he wanted to.  He obviously didn't want to very much.
He checked into a substance abuse clinic and the first thing he did on
completion of the program was to go out and have a "few beers with the boys"
because now he could handle it.

Tom Gowdyk
From: b_hart@odin.dev.macsch.com (Bill Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: LA Kings trade rumors
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:48:33 GMT
Reply-To: b_hart@macsch.com
Organization: MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation


In article <22967@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis) writes:
|>Path: draco.macsch.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!hacgate!oracle!willis
|>
|>Well it must be getting close to time for training camp, because trade
|>rumors are finally starting to circulate here in LALA land.
|>
|>Rumor of the week:  Puppa from Buffalo for ???
|>
|>Sounds a little more reasonable than Burke & a defenseman from N.J. for
|>Sandstrom.  I'll see if I can get the '???' replaced with a player name
|>or draft choice #.
|>
|>Stan Willis
|>net contact: L.A. Kings
|>
|>
|>

I least these rumors address the need for a backup to Hrudey.

I'll add the rumors I've heard.

1. Tomas Sandstrom to Detroit for Jimmy Carson. I've been hearing this for
the last 2 or 3 months, but haven't seen anything discussed here.

2. The Kings are supposedly talking to a goaltender in the Swiss league.
The name I've heard is Jakes. I don't know if this is first, last, or even
spelled right.

--Bill
b_hart@macsch.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: A Trade Prediction (Was: Adams division Analysis and Predictions)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:09:20 GMT

allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
>
>Quebec Nordiques
>----------------
>There are a number of questions about the Nordiques; Will the
>players obtained in the Lindros deal sign? Will Hextall return
>to his old form? How many Nordique players will want to be
>traded from Quebec?

If there's no deal between John Vanbiesbrouck and the Detroit
Red Wings (Beezer + Patrick for Yzerman is still going around 
in these parts) I'm calling for a three way involving Hextall,
Steve Yzerman, and Sean Burke.  The Wings have a strategic need
to prevent Keenan from getting Hextall, as the Devils have one
to prevent the Rangers from getting Yzerman.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Elections 1992-93:
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		* Jean Chretien (Canada)
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			* Perot^H^H^H^H^H Elvis! (USA)
From: 832989@BOOTH.USASK.CA (Glenn Chin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Steroids and drug testing
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:50:38 GMT

I read a quote from NHLPA Executive Director, Bob Goodenow, that said he is
against drug testing of athletes since it hasn't shown to work in other sports.
He made the statement after NHL President-elect, Gil Stein, brought up the
issue in lieu of Kordic's death.  Why these damn lawyers continue to say and do
what's in their own best interests instead of paving the way to help athletes
remain clean is beyond me.

Earlier this summer, a number of under-aged Saskatchewan hockey players were
arrested for breaking into labs and stealing steroids.  Undoubtedly, the promise
of glitz and big bucks in the NHL was a factor in their behaviours.  The coach
of one of the players caught said he will continue to play his player since he
is a key member of his team.

One way to remove the preoccupation with bulk and muscle among hockey players is
to emphasize the skating aspect of hockey.  Altering hockey rinks to
international-sized width would help, but that means lower ticket revenues for
the philanthropic owners.  Another way is to ban fighting completely.  Anyone
who wishes to watch men punch each other can watch boxing.  Screw them; hockey
doesn't need that kind of fans.  However, as long as NHL coaches, GMs, fans, and
media continue to seek big, tough robowingers (to borrow Gerald O.'s term),
I doubt steroid abuse among teenagers will completely go away.


Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Subject: Re: Rebound -- valid hockey term or not?
Reply-To: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 01:53:29 GMT


In a previous article, PORTIGAL_STEVE@tandem.com () says:

>Simple question, yes or no. Trying to resolve a small debate.
>
>thanks,
>
>steve portigal
>

I hear it on WJR all the time.  "Yzerman picks up the rebound and
scores."
-- 
Eric Rickin (ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu)
Pro-Choice/Pro-Clinton/Gore '92
Organization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:41:30 -0400 
From: "Derrick J. Brashear" <db74+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hornet Jerseys?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.hockey: 18-Aug-92 Hornet Jerseys? Marc
Green@cs.toronto.ed (354)

> I've heard a rumor that Pittsburgh Hornet shirts, etc. are now
> available. Any truth to this? (Too bad that Harris was such a jerk
> about the Hornets' copyright. It would have been a big BIG improvement
> on Penguins.)
[foo deleted]
> Marc Green
> Trent University

I haven't heard this or seen anything to the effect of this. I'd love to
get my hands on a Hornets jersey though.... that and an old Johnstown
Jets jersey.

-D
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: bdown@vis.toronto.edu (Brian Down)
Subject: Re: NHL in the Olympics (really: Brian Murray as a GM)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:21:25 GMT

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

>In article <1992Aug12.061639.21942@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>
>>If, as time is already indicating, Detroit made a bad deal in trading Johan
>>Garpenlov for Bob McGill, that takes nothing away from Murray's great
>>efforts in rebuilding the Red Wings into a power.  You don't have to, like
>>you are doing with Sather, try to defend the Garpenlov deal in order to
>>portray Murray as a perfect trade-maker.
>>

Excuse me. Seeing how as you were talking about trades that are
good for hockey, I find it interesting that you come up with this
trade as being a "bad" deal. Johan Garpenlov, wasn't going to play
for the Wings. They have too much depth on the wing. Rather than
letting him languish in the Press Box, Murray did Garpenlov and
San Jose  a favour by asking for Bob McGill. They were looking for
a little muscle on defense to handle Chicago's goons in the defensive
end. No doubt, Garpenlov is a better hockey player than McGill ever was.
However, teams weren't exactly beating down Murray's door asking
for Garpenlov. He wanted some toughness on defence, so rather than
let Garpenlov study the newspaper sports reporting business, he fed him
to the Sharks. :-) I certainly didn't loose any sleep over it.
I was happy that Garpenlov would get to play. 

>Bryan Murray inherited a team which had already drafted great players...
>Fedorov, Konstantinov, Lidstom, Cheveldae, etc. are choices that 
>pre-date Murray...it remains to be seen how good a GM Murray is...he
>is a good coach, however, (but who overcoaches in the playoffs).

Gee....you omitted picking up Miller, Vial and Cummings for Kocur.
I don't think that one went over too well in Ranger-land. Or how
about picking up Vince Riendeau for Rick Zombo? I also like the
Miller for Cicerelli deal. Lets consider Murray's free agent acquisitions:
like Paul Ysebaert, Ray Sheppard or Alan Kerr. (I'm sorry to see him
go.) Hell...I thought picking up Brad Marsh was a good idea, adding
a little heart to the dressing room. Howe (we won't get into that! :)
about the draft picks: Primeau, Lapointe and I believe Sillenger?

I think Murray has proven himself to be a good GM. As for his coaching,
well.....he actually won a series after being down 3-1 this playoffs.
Maybe he's turing it around.... :-)

Brian Down (bdown@vis.toronto.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: jrl8980@tamuts.tamu.edu (John R Lenz                  )
Subject: RANGERS = Dream Team!
Keywords: cup
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:54:33 GMT

The N.Y. R A N G E R S are the real DREAM TEAM!!

That's right.  Take it from a diehard:

They only win in our dreams!




Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Howard Baldwin
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:56:35 GMT

Howard Baldwin doesn't have enough money to hire Scotty Bowman or
pay Jaromir Jagr or Tom Barrasso, but he has enough money to
contemplate buying the BC Lions of the CFL...go figure?

Gerald
From: gomer+@pitt.edu (Richard J Coyle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Joey Mullen news?
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:45:17 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug18.173717.22071@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>I have heard no rumor regarding the Sharks having interest in Bourque.  I
>personally don't want to see Bourque in a Shark uniform, particularly if he
>requires compensation.

I doubt you will.  On a team with so many obvious needs, it would be
silly for them to spend much cash on a grinder such as Bourque.  And
I doubt he'd go, anyhow.  He'll end up either in Pittsburgh or Boston.

rick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: LA KIngs precamp moves
From: gjl@phx.mcd.mot.com (George Lloyd)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:30:59 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.


The Kings announced that Tim Bothwell will coach their IHL farm club, the 
Phoenix Roadrunners.  Bothwell last coached the WHL Medicine Hat club.  He
was instrumental in developing Brent Thompson in the league


*******************************************************************************
When I asked a Chinese Malay if he was going to give blood for a Blood Drive 
he said:
"What is inside a Chinaman should stay inside a Chinaman....
                               .....Unless there's money to be made from it!"
Ditto for Motorola's opinions!

George James Lloyd 
Motorola Microcomputer Division
2900 S. Diablo Way       DW234
Tempe AZ 85282
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Pens Negotiations Update
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:51:04 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Keywords:  Bowman, Barrasso, Jagr, Lemieux

This info was taken from this morning's USA Today, so I don't know how
accurate it is.

A few days ago Marc Green posted info from Toronto newspapers that said
Scotty Bowman would not be returning as coach.  The articles included quotes
from Bowman.  What a difference a day (and dollars) make.

According to USA Today, Scotty and the Pens are close to signing a contract.
While terms of the contract were not released, it is reported that Bowman is
asking for $350,000.  The Pens were offering $300,000.  The report goes on
to say that both sides are close to an agreement.

"I've been coaching 25 years," said Bowman.  "I wouldn't feel comfortable 
making less than coaches who haven't been around as long."  The highest
paid coach is believed to be Al Arbour at $400,000 per season.  Pat Burns'
contact with Toronto has him earning $325,000 this season and next, and then
rises to $400,000 in the third year.

The Bruins' Brian Sutter and the Kings' Barry Melrose will make more than 
$300,000 this season.

Bowman went on to say that, yes,  he was at first very reluctant to stay on 
as coach.  Even winning the Cup didn't stir any interest.  But the thought of
reaching 1,000 victories apparently has changed his mind.  "I think about 
having the chance to win 1,000 games.  With a good team like the Penguins, I 
have a chance to do it in 2 seasons.  

Bowman has 778 regular season and 130 playoff victories.  He needs 92 more.

-----------------

Howard Baldwin has become personally involved in negotiating the contracts of
Tom Barrasso, Jaromir Jagr and Mario Lemieux.  The article didn't say what
effect this had on the negotiations.

Lemieux has 2 years left on a five-year deal, but Baldwin wants to renegotiate
the contract and offer Lemieux a life-time deal.  Barrasso is entering his 
option year, and would like to be signed to a new contract before the start
of training camp next month.  Jagr, who just completed the second of a five
year deal, is unhappy with the reported 200-250,000 he is earning on his old
contract.

Lori 
Contact for the Penguins
lli+@cs.cmu.edu



Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Oilers upset over Neutral Site games (was Re: OKC get the real thing!!)
Keywords: YESYESYESYES!!!!!
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:49:13 GMT

mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster) writes:


>Oilers vs. Islanders: December 13, 7:30PM at the Myriad in OKC.

>There is a God.

>Tickets aren't on sale yet, but will run from $12 to $35.

>I guess the OKC people really had to sell it to Stein, because I
>never expected to get a game here. Dallas yes, OKC hell no.
>I do feel sorry for Seattle and Houston, though.  I think they 
>should have gotten a game each.

According to the Edmonton Journal, the Oilers are upset over
the selection of their Neutral site games... They play one
in Oklahoma City, and another in Clevland. Neither site fits
in well with their travel plans, and the Oilers and the
Canadiens are the only two teams who don't play at least
one Neutral Site game in Canada.

The Oilers may look to make a deal with the NHLPA to split
the costs of transportation to the games.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: NHL in the Olympics
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:50:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.062018.16561@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

>Soccer football is perhaps the most popular sport in the world...what
>is wrong with advocating a format for hockey just like that of soccer.

Basketball is perhaps the second most popular sport in the world...what
is wrong with advocating a format for hockey just like that of basketball.

===============================================================================
GO LOS ANGELES KINGS!  Go for Next Year! :-(
GO SAN JOSE SHARKS!  Ray Whitney for Calder!  Jeff Hackett for Vezina!
	Pat Falloon for Hart! :-) Neil Wilkinson for Norris!  ('92-'93)
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks