HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elie@hdtv.tmc.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:04:43 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Apr13.211258.8623@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>I don't ignore that most of the Arab countries are not democratic. But believe
>>>me, the EEC will not consider joining Lebanon or any other arabic country to 
>>>their market just for the simple reason that none of these countries is industrial.
>>>
>>>Nabil
>>
>>
>>Hmmm if Cyprus is able to start the process of becoming a member of the
>>EEC I see no problems with Lebanon doing the same. 
>>
>>Regards, Elie.
>>
>>PS: Sorry guys for no reply but I was in Montreal.
>
>That is great if you are right. But it seems to me like it is geographically 
>difficult for Lebanon to be a Member. EEC members have to be Europeans as the
>abbreviation imply.
>
>Nabil

Yes it is true! And believe me, during the past 15 years I witnessed an 
unbelievable progress in Greece and Cyprus.
One thing I like about Cyprus, is that they are very democratic, and 
political issues relating to government do not conflict with issues 
such as nationalism, defense, security, ...

Regards, Elie.
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: OMAR KARAMI et al: useless Syrian puppets
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:50:33 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


BEIRUT (APRIL 15) DPA - Life came to a standstill in Lebanon on Wednesday as
thousands of people marched through Beirut and other cities to protest
deteriorating economic conditions. 
   The marchers demanded the resignation of Prime Minister Omar Karami and his
cabinet, charging that corruption and excessive government spending was behind
the economic collapse. 
  Schools, businesses and most shops stayed closed in response to a call by the
General Labour Union. Beirut International Airport suspended air travel for
three hours in solidarity with the strike. 
   Some 15,000 workers, students and housewives took part in the Beirut march,
which wound its way down the capital's main avenue and encircled the government
palace where Karami has set office. 
   It was the largest anti-government protest since 1989 and the first against
the Syrian-backed prime minister since he took office in December 1990. 
   Karami has charged that the collapse of the Lebanese economy was a 
"conspiracy" against Lebanon to force it to sign an unfavorable peace treaty
with Israel. 
  Living conditions have been ravaged by a plunge in the value of the national
currency, which now stands at 1,400 Lebanese pounds per one U.S. dollar.

                                  ----

From: Clao's newsline

The dollar closed in Beirut at 1,355 Lebanese pounds; but it is being traded at
a much higher rate in the black market. Due to the deteriorating economic 
situation, the Lebanese Workers Union called for a strike on April 15 and 
April 22 to express the need for a truly democratic parliamentary system
in Lebanon, capable of providing and protecting the needs of all citizens.
The Pilot's Union also called for a strike tomorrow. The pilots will not
fly any planes for 24 hours.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ashraf@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Ashraf Mahmoud)
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid to Israel????
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:28:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.153525.17331@cbfsb.cb.att.com> arnaud@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (alain.arnaud) writes:
>In article <204359@unix.cis.pitt.edu> abas@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jasem Alhumoud) writes:
>>
>>                
>>
>>           Discovering the Victims of the U.S. Aid to Israel
>>
>>                  " By Eleni Katsoulakis"
>>
>>
>
>	{Trash deleted...}
>
>>
>>  "Eleni Katsoulakis, a journalist in her native Greece, is a free-lance
>>   writer presently living in New Jersey."
>>
>>
>>    Jasem (Dr. J.)
>
>
>	What's this garbage? She deserved what she got and probably not
>enough of it.

Can you explain why she deserved it, please?
From: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:14:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr9.201417.16117
Reply-To: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani) says:

>The article Mr. Karam has posted was initially posted on Lebnet and
>the topic was beaten to death there.

Oh really? Beaten to death? There were two articles about the pleasure 
marriages one trying to limit the damage caused by the article, the other
blaming the moderators of lebnet for posting it.


>  The problem I had with it along
>with most people was that it is uncalled for to post except to degrade
>a major sect in Lebanon and that is not Ok.

I found the article to be very informative and it confirmed various stories
I had heard about the pleasure marriages.

>  There was no discussion
>about this topic for Mr. Karam to generously post it for the rest of
>us. 

I find the article far more relevant to culture (note the name of this 
newsgroup) than the various political articles posted in here.

> In addition, the article has a couple of cheap shots against
>Sunni-Shiite relations and Islam in general. 

Could you mention the cheap shots? Are the claims made by the article 
inaccurate? Could you correct them for us? I would really like to learn 
more on the subject.

>
>No wonder Lebanon is so messed up after all.

Because of newspaper articles describing the customs of some Middle Eastern
religious groups?


Michel
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: On Aoun (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent)
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:12:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrcae.1992Apr13.211258.8623
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.

>>I don't ignore that most of the Arab countries are not democratic. But believe
>>me, the EEC will not consider joining Lebanon or any other arabic country to 
>>their market just for the simple reason that none of these countries is industrial.
>>
>>Nabil
>
>
>Hmmm if Cyprus is able to start the process of becoming a member of the
>EEC I see no problems with Lebanon doing the same. 
>
>Regards, Elie.
>
>PS: Sorry guys for no reply but I was in Montreal.

That is great if you are right. But it seems to me like it is geographically 
difficult for Lebanon to be a Member. EEC members have to be Europeans as the
abbreviation imply.

Nabil
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: A letter from Jounieh
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:54:34 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


From: Clao's via Leb-Net:
-------------------------

After a trip to Lebanon, Antony Shadid wrote in the Middle East International 
under the title "A Letter from Jounieh" that the people of this Lebanese city
blame the men in Damascus for everything that took place in the country the 
last 16 years: the Syrian army orchestrated the assassinations of Rene Mouawad,
Bashir Gemayel, Dany Chamoun and Kamal Joumblatt.

Mr Shadid said that the Lebanese feel that for every hopeless situation there
is a messaiah waiting, and in Lebanon that savior is Michel Aoun. THe writer
added that his cousins, whom he visited in Jounieh, proudly display videotapes
of Aoun's speeches and songs commemorating Lebanon's war of liberation. 
He added that Aoun is remembered as an inspirational symbol in an otherwise
hopeless situation and that the Lebanese are still quick to defend the 
General's honor and integrity, proclaiming him a new leader without ties to
Lebanon's feudal families, who would have shattered the country's old system
of nepotism and corruption if given time.

By any account, it is all too apparent that Aoun's exile in France will not
erase his presence in Lebanon. Mr. Shadid concluded his article by saying
that after years of strife and 100,000 deaths, some Lebanese still speak the 
words of revolution, rebellion, liberation and emancipation.

"As I left Lebanon," he said, "it was that mentality of war I feared most."
From: fadel@mbcl.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Lebanese and tolerance.
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:07:16 GMT

Dear Lebanese fellows,
As a new reader of these ever so entertaining letters, I am shocked by 
the general lebanese mentality. Have you poeple learned anything???..
All the letters posted are almost all aggressive and offensive.
Is this a sign of our "esprit meridional" or is it pure hate for your 
own kind??.. When are we going to start transcending religion and 
ideological opinions,and start really caring about the future of Lebanon?
Can't you see that we are starting to become parts of Syria, Israel and Iran.
They have been taking advantage of our stupidity and ignorance. Why can't we
just accept one another the way we are? Let's forget religion and its blind
extremism.... there are poeple litterally starving in Lebanon while we are
inflating our intellectual egoes by putting down the others'believes.
If you poeple love Lebanon so much, stop looking for a green card by any mean 
possible and plan ahead you return and the reconstruction of our country.
It is up to us. Our fathers destroyed it, let's rebuild with a new mentality
One of tolerance and acceptance. Embrace foreign cultures for what good they
can bring us without forgetting who you really are... proud poeple from a 
little beautiful country, trying to reemerge from its ashes. 
Addi.
Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.
 Rutgers University, NJ. USA.
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 16:47:08 TUR
From: <A09475@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: ahlan wasahlan

   hi there


this is a test
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Israel Vents Frustration On Villages
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:32:16 GMT

According to the Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran (9022 kHz,
2330-0030 UTC, April 8, 1992) Israeli occupationary forces in Lebanon
made a failed attempt to take a strategic position designated as hill
#910. Lebanese resistence forces repelled the attack and killed one
soldier, wounded several others and destroyed much military equipment of
the occupationary forces. In retaliation for this failure Israeli guns
were turned on three villages in Lebanon and they were shelled. Israeli
jets also terrorized the cities of Tyre and Nabatiyeh for several hours
by making repeated passes over the areas and breaking the sound barrier. 

Brad Hernlem

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: wsaba@csi.uottawa.ca (Walid Saba)
Subject: Re: Borrowing Money for Israel?????
Organization: CSI Dept., University of Ottawa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 03:40:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.201449.2722@cbfsb.cb.att.com> arnaud@cbnewsf.cb.att.com  
(alain.arnaud) writes:
> In article <204553@unix.cis.pitt.edu> abas@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jasem Alhumoud)  
writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                      Borrowing Money For Israel: Annual
> >                      Interest Alone Exceeds $3 Billion
> >
> >                            By Frank Collins
> >
> Egypt has been receiving the same level of aid as Israel since Camp david.  
They
> haven't repaid a dime, and the U.S. even forgave a $7 Billion loan last year.
> 
> Your articlse would be much more effective if they were more balanced
> or contained accurate facts.
> 
> -----


	Percentage wise, Israel is getting per capital, more than
	the avergae income of more than 100 countries. You know 
	what that means, it means that Israel is practically living
	off the US aid, and it is no victory of the great Israeli
	sosciety that they have achieved what they have when every
	Isareli gets around 4,000 US dollars every year (heck this
	is almost as much as the per capital income of Greece, 
	Portugal, and around 100 times that of many third-world
	countries)....

	Is it clear now?????


Best,

Walid Saba
From: ubbarazi@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Bashar Barazi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: To all Lebanese people
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:30:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Educational Computing Network



Hi everybody,my name is Bashar.
I live in Chicago and have been looking for some friends from Lebanon
but with no success.
So,if there is somebody out there who is interested please email me at:
              ubbarazi@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

Thanks and see you all soon.



                                                   Bashar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: summer@cs.mcgill.ca (Dania KODEIH)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:27:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.215519.14925@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam) writes:
>


>[copied from lebnet without permission]
-----------------------------------------

Everybody read (or saw) the article already, so no need to quote it..
but I wonder why some  may people find it soooooooooooooooooooooooooo
intresting to post AGAIN on scl..
From: sylvie@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Sylvie Feghali Ext. 6525)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Arab Identity
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:07:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrcae.1992Apr09.210722.4449
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Originator: sylvie@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM


Nabil writes:

>>Sylvie
>>
>>I consider an arab everyone that his country is a member of the 
>>arab league and speaks arabic. Just like everyone that lives in the
>>United States is an American, except of course the visitors. This 
>>cover parts 1 and 2 of your questions.
>>
>>Religion does not have anything to do with being an arab. There is
>>Christian and Moslem Lebanese, Palestinians, Egyptians, etc.. 
>>
>>If you read my two previous articles, you must have noticed that 
>>I asked those who are mixing religion with politics to stop doing
>>that. Even try to reconcile their political differences and start
>>rebuilding instead of pointing fingers at each others.
>>
>>The only reason I used the unpleasant term "puke" in my previous
>>article is because I feel bad when I see someone from Lebanon, which
>>I strongly consider an arabic country, trying to distance himself
>>from the Arabs. A lot of arabs can argue that their ancestors are from
>>Greek, Europe, or Africa. The Americans are from many different countries
>>as well, but they still call themselves Americans.
>>
>>Ofcourse, I could have just walked around the corner and told you 
>>this, but instead I posted it for everyone to read.
>>
>>Nabil
>>


    I really think that you guys are talking about different interpretation
    of the term "arab".  
    According to yours Nabil, I am an arab because I am from lebanon and lebanon 
    is in the arab league and arabic is its national language.
    No one can argue with this.
    But for some (especially western folks), arab is synonymous to desert, nomades 
    and sometimes even "islam".  Now we don't have deserts in Lebanon, I am not a 
    nomade neither were my ancestors, and I am not moslem so by this definition 
    I am not an arab.
    In either case I am lebanese.
    So you see, claiming a lebanese identity is "not necessarily" done in order
    to put down arabs or others but like any other subject you can stretch it
    to imply any message you want.

                            Sylvie
-- 
Sylvie Feghali                  | GO AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE; 
NCR,  E&M Columbia              | WHEN YOU GET THERE, 
Quality & Strategic Initiatives | YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE FURTHER
Email address: sylvie.feghali@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Reply-To: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 02:46:34 GMT


In a previous article, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) says:

>Despite all of the losses inflicted on most of the Lebanese people, it
>has always been my feelings that the under-represented Shi'a of
>Lebanon emerged as the only victors (if we can call it that way) of
>the bloody conflict.  Either way you look at it, they have definitely
>gained a significant weight in the government and they are finally a
>force to reckon with.  Nowhere this was more obvious than in the
>momentus creation of the Janoub "South" ministry back then with Nabih
>Birri and the Amal group.  

Hmm you are saying that the creation of the ministry for the South only
benefited the Shiites? Are you saying that the South belongs to the Shiites?
Or are you saying that the creation of such a ministry gives the Shiites
their equal share  in the government when they represent the largest sect
of Lebanese living in Lebanon?
Now that you mention it, I think that the Shiites are still under-represented 
in the Lebanese government. Taef did take a lot of the power from the 
Christian president, but the power was given to the Sunni prime minister... 
If anything, the prime minister should be shiite, now that the Sunnis are a 
clear minority. Heck, the Shiites have even a valid case to get the 
presidency.


>
>Of course, this means big trouble for people like Mr. Karam and those
>who normally share his views.  

Yup and by posting the pleasure marriages article, I would make all the 
Shiites disappear....


>the contents of the article he posted!  Mr. Karam is simply ignorant
>and I suggest to the good people out there not to waste their time
>discussing this crappy article of his because he himself doesn't know
>what he is talking about.

Please inform me Mr. Soufi! O give me your mighty knowledge!
By the way can you tell me if it's true that pleasure marriages are allowed
in Shiite Islam? Can you also tell me if they are allowed in Sunni Islam?

>
>By the way, I remember a Michel Karam who was the representative of
>the "Kataeb" at AUB.  I remember he ran away to the OCP in 1983 (not

Oh and don't you remember the other Michel Karam, the Mossad agent you helped
catch in Tripoli? Nice try though ... :-)


Michel.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Pleasure Marriages
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:19:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr9.201926.16484
Reply-To: at392@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michel M. Karam)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, summer@cs.mcgill.ca (Dania KODEIH) says:


>
>Everybody read (or saw) the article already, so no need to quote it..

So you are claiming that everybody on scl reads lebnet?

>but I wonder why some  may people find it soooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>intresting to post AGAIN on scl..
>

Do you mean so many people find it so interesting? Of course it is. Otherwise
you wouldn't have replied...

Michel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: I am a phoenician! (was:Re: Arab identity)
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 15:55:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.165921.366@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>It seems like will never learn!
>
>
>So I say that I am a Phoenician on the following basis:
>
>1- I do not know exactly where my physical ancesters came from (e.g. father,
>father's father, mother mother's mother) so in these terms I could be a
>descendent of a mongolian who raped a euorpean princess?
>
>2- I am from Lebanon, a country with a long history. Lebanon is first mentioned
>as far as history is recorded (more than 6000 years ago).
>
>3- for most of these years app. from 2000 Bc to 600 AD, it was the Phoenician
>element that prevailed in Lebanon. True there was a strong interaction between
>the lebanese and many other peoples (aramaens, Egyptians, Hebrews, Philistines,
>Hitties etc. etc.), but the Phoenician element prevailed.
>
Elie

Everything you said above may be correct. But one can argue, well we are all 
descendant of Adam and Eve. I know some Palestinians origin can be traced back
to Greece. The Americans are a mixture of many cultures and yet they are proud 
to be Americans. However, an American can defect to Russia and deny his American
citizenship and nobody will criticize him.

In short, that is fine, if you don't want to belong to the Arabs nobody will blame
you, but in this case you will create a gap between you and the rest of the people 
who claim they are arabs.

Nabil
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: LEBANESE POUND FALLS TO NEW LOW, 1410 TO THE U.S. DOLLAR
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:28:07 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


BEIRUT (APRIL 13, 1992) MIDDLE EAST NEWS NETWORK - The Lebanese pound fell to a
new low today: 1410 to the dollar, according to Beirut radio quoting the 
Central Bank. 

[Note that the "real" black market rate is at about 1600LP/Dollar]

Other news:

A western embassador was quoted in the daily al-Nahar as saying that nothing
in Lebanon is any longer Lebanese, including the currency.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: sion@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun)
Subject: Re: The racist Mr. Mourad (was Re: Bottom Line: Arabs Are Incompetent (was Re: Are Arabs incompetent))
Organization: Free Lebanon
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:04:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr09.152842.17564@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>You people who claim that you are not Arabs make me puke. 

I'm not sure your NCR keyboard can take ur puke man. The ones I tried were 
pretty wimpy :-)


>If you are not
>Arabs then don't speak Arabic. Speak French!!!

Who told you we spoke Arabic? :-) :-) 
We speak Lebanese!
From: ayman@sol.berkeley.edu (Ayman Fawaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Racism on scl (was Re: The racist Mr. Mourad)
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:06:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sol.AYMAN.92Apr16210605
	<AYMAN.92Apr13144722@sol.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Apr14.195312.12804@colorado.edu>
Organization: /home/eclair0/u/varaiya/ayman/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU's message of Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:53:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.195312.12804@colorado.edu> saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E) writes:

>I was about to reply to your article, and correct a number of assumptions     
>you made regaring my intentions and opinions.                                 

>That is until I came across this last paragraph, and concluded that 
>there was no point in discussing with someone who tries to intimidate others.

I am not sure what you found so menacing in my message, but it was not
my purpose to intimidate anyone into silence.  Sorry if the tone was a
bit harsh, but I think it was appropriate given the unending stream of
chauvinistic messages casting aspersions on Arabs.  It does get
irritating to read post after post to the glory of the Lebanese as if
we were god's shadow on earth and the people around us nothing but
subhumans.  

Anyway, as far as I could tell, I simply addressed point by point what
you had written.  I trust that I can read English well enough to
interpret your observation regarding Le Pen to imply that his rhetoric
is palatable because 15% of the French electorate think so, and your
request for 10 reasons why Arabs should be proud as an attempt to
disparage them.  If you think I misread your message, I remain all
ears for your clarifications. 

Concerning your charge that I am out to intimidate people, you are
simply wrong.  Quite the contrary, I will defend anyone's right to
express their opinions, no matter how unpopular the ideas are or how
repulsive I personally might find them.  
Having said that, it should be expected that those who feel offended
by slurs have their right to denounce the racists and challenge what
they write, be similarly respected.


Youssef Fawaz