HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Monument to de Gaulle
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:12:05 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Jul23.210907.25640@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>
>  Mr. Bouchard should take note:-
>
>  less - with or without Mr. Bouchard's approval.
>
>-- 
>  ///==================================================================\\\
>  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
>  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
>  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||

BOUCHER et BOUCHARD sont deux noms de famille differents.  Meme s'il y a
plus possiblement plus de BOUCHARD que de BOUCHER, il n'y a pas de raison
de les meler.  A moins de vivre resolument en anglais sans attacher 
d'importance a ces faits folkhloriques que sont les noms des francophones.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: Olympic Musing
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:36:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.010006.27816@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>In article <Bs2M4J.9I6@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul27.154040.11394@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>>>From article <Bs217F.6Fy@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
>>> Denis Beauregard protests:-
>>>> The advertisement is showing all those Olympic athletes and says
>>>> how great Canada is.  This is crap and abusing the olympic spirit.
>>>> Without Canada, Quebec athletes would say they are representing
>>>> Quebec, that's all.  ...
>>>  Quebec isn't a country.
>>Out of subject here.
>But it is relevant, since you brought up Quebec nationalism.  Athletes
>come from many COUNTRIES around the world.  There are no "provincial"
>teams there.
>There's only two options, for the "Canadian" team, both of which are
>unacceptable to SOMEBODY:
>(1) Send all of the athletes together in one bunch, known as the
>"Canadian" team.
>This is, of course, objectionable to the Quebecois nationalists.
>It is also the only option that is open, since Quebec is not a
>country.
>(2) Send in two teams; a "CSQ" team, and a "Quebec" team.  

 This is one time that Quebec's entitlement or pretension to
 nationhood is not debatable; countries get _invited_ to the
 Olympics, and the IOC decides what's a country and what isn't,
 after due attention to the political situation of the week.
 This time, they decided that Canada is still one country and
 includes the triangular bit between Ottawa and Moncton; so let's
 relax and enjoy the likely impressive performances of Quebec
 athletes on the Canadian team.
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome"
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:38:03 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> original text              [translator's comments...       Vive le Net libre!]
= unauthorized translation   [~] [?] [??] approximate, uncertain, uncomprehended
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>Je suis passe dans le quartier chinois de Montreal hier.  Il y avait plein
>d'affiches bilingues chinois-francais, ceci au neon et tres propre
>(c'est-a-dire tres recent).  Donc, il y a d'un cote la loi, et de l'autre
>son application.  C'est comme la limite de vitesse : 100 km/h alors que
>tout le monde roule a 110 ou 115.  Il y a toujours une zone de tolerance.
>Dans le quartier chinois (et ailleurs), le cote culturel facilite un tel
>affichage culturel.  Mais, c'est quand un tel affichage est fait uniquement
>dans le but de denigrer les francophones qui veulent se donner un pays,
>dans le but d'etre arrogant, c'est inacceptable.  C'est jouer avec les
>sentiments tout en rejetant le nationalisme quebecois en disant qu'il
>est aussi base sur des sentiments.
>-- 
>  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
> /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
>J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
>\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !

= I went through the Chinese quarter of Montreal yesterday.  There were
= many bilingual Chinese-French signs, in neon and very clean (which
= means very recent).  Therefore, there is on the one hand the law,
= and on the other its application.  It's like the speed limit: 100 km/h
= when everyone drives at 110 or 115.  There is always a range of
= tolerance. In the Chinese quarter (and elsewhere), the cultural side
= facilitates such cultural signage.  But, it is when the signage
= is there solely for the purpose of denigrating the francophones that
= want to give themselves a country, for the purpose of being
= arrogant, that is unacceptable.  It is playing with emotions while
= rejecting Quebec nationalism by saying that that is also based on
= emotions.

[end of translation]
>_____   Thomas Hood
>J   _|  Anglo Rhodesian : Westmount/Hampstead/South Durham/New Carlisle
>\_.-=== Alexander Young (1759) -> Anne Woolfrey (1901) -> Moi (1992)
--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: English services in Quebec ( was Re: Biliguism)
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:48:59 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Jul23.152901.1631@pandora.matrox.com> thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
>
>At this point, I should recognize that Quebec has indeed done some
>things, voluntarily, to guarantee English-language services.  Bill 160 (?)
>was passed; driver's licenses and income tax forms are provided in
>English, and so on.  The anglophones should be grateful for this.
>But "protected" they are not, cf: Law 178.
>
English driver's licenses?  This is news to me.  When I renewed my
license a few years ago, I checked off the box requesting service
in English.  I got a new license last week.  The letter accompanying
it, telling me to pay up, was in English, but the license itself
was in French (except for the organ donor form, which is bilingual).

Income tax forms are available in English, though my gratitude for
having to fill out two forms, when everyone else in Canada has
to fill out only one, is very limited.  This is a good example of
stupid symbolism by the Quebec government.  In theory, Quebec can
change its income tax rules independently of Ottawa, but in
practice, this never happens.  E.g. when Ottawa changes the RRSP
contribution limits, Quebec always does exactly the same thing.
Quebec taxpayers are inconvenienced every year by having to fill
out two returns.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: can
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:31:38 GMT

ph3@unixg.ubc.ca (Michael Hamilton (phys 306)) writes:
>In <12466@audetf> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>
>
>>Well I wouldn't swear allegeance to a Queen of England more than to an
>>American flag. They both are, for me, equally "a croc".
>
>Francois, did you ever have to pledge allegience to the Queen? I never did,
>and I assume that my situation is common to most Canadians, except possibly
>immigrants to Canada. (I don't mean for this to be a snarkey question, I just
>want to know.)

New Canadians must indeed swear or affirm allegience to the monarch during
the naturalization ceremony.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson

Xref: sparky can.politics:5303 can.general:3372
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.followup,can.general
Subject: Re: Bof?
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:43:39 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <BABY.92Jul21114737@watson.info.polymtl.ca> baby@info.polymtl.ca (Philippe Grant) writes:
>In article <Brnsqn.1Iq@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>
>   continue to shot, first camp will continue too; if they stop and
>   the first camp prefer the peace (and Quebecois are peaceful, see the
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   proportion of Quebecois who voted against conscription), then the conflict
>   will stop alone.  If both camps keep firing, the war will last.
>   (end of comparison).  In the actual case, there is no war nor ennemies,
>   just two groups with (somewhat) opposite targets.
>
>Please don't make gratuitous generalizations.  The fact that Quebecois
>voted in majority against conscription doesn't mean they were peaceful.
>Does the FLQ ring a bell with you out there?  Maybe most Quebecois just

Il y a eu moins d'une douzaine de Felquistes actifs.  Generaliser
de 12 a 6 millions, c'est encore plus gratuit :-O

>didn't want to put their butts on the line for "des etrangers".  Let's just
>hope we're ever in need of military assistance some day (as unlikely as it
>may seem).  Not standing up for what's right is as bad as doing something
>really wrong, if not worse.  This is why the media is opposed to
>infringements on freedom of expression.
>
>Just my 0.02c CAN. (0.016 US) worth.
>--
>Philippe Grant                     |
>Etudiant, Genie Informatique       | If it ain't broke,
>Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal    | DON'T FIX IT!!!
>baby@info.polymtl.ca               | Including this signature!


-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome"
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 04:20:06 GMT

In article <BrwHuF.ox@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>Je suis passe dans le quartier chinois de Montreal hier.  Il y avait plein
>d'affiches bilingues chinois-francais, ceci au neon et tres propre
>(c'est-a-dire tres recent).  Donc, il y a d'un cote la loi, et de l'autre
>son application.  C'est comme la limite de vitesse : 100 km/h alors que
>tout le monde roule a 110 ou 115.  Il y a toujours une zone de tolerance.
>Dans le quartier chinois (et ailleurs), le cote culturel facilite un tel
>affichage culturel.  Mais, c'est quand un tel affichage est fait uniquement
>dans le but de denigrer les francophones qui veulent se donner un pays,
>dans le but d'etre arrogant, c'est inacceptable.  C'est jouer avec les
>sentiments tout en rejetant le nationalisme quebecois en disant qu'il
>est aussi base sur des sentiments.

Oui, il y a une zone de tolerance.  Et si on ecrit en chinois, on a de
tolerance pour ca.

Evidement, selon vous, si on ecrit une affiche en anglais, ca faut
denigrer les francophones, ca c'est une act arrogant et inacceptable.
C'est vrai?

-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: skenny@femto.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:00:36 GMT

dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:

>In article <12388@audetf>, audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>|> And why show respect? I'd respect her more if she didn't pretend to be
>|> the Queen of my country.

>Common courtesy.  Respect for human life.  Or maybe just enough intelligence
>to realize that she leads the Commonwealth and that if you insult her you
>insult the Commonwealth, and people generally don't associate with those
>who insult them.  I can understand wanting you're own country, but to go
>around insulting everyone that your economic life depends on is just plain
>stupid.

Well my own personal opinion of the Queen/Monarchy is that it is a bunch
of BS. The only connection to me with Canada is a part of history and
that's where it should belong. This is not insulting the Commonwealth
nor the Monarchy nor Monarchists. On this note, when I saw clips of the
Canada Day celebrations where new Canadians swearing allegiance to the
Queen (in Winnipeg I believe), I nearly gagged... what a croc.
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome"
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:15:15 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1029

> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:

>Of course you can put your company's english name on your sign. Stop
>making unfounded assertions like this. They are tonnes of shops with
>legal english names, written on their signs.
>

  Like:-
              Eaton      was   Eaton's

           Chez Ben      was   Ben's Delicatessen

          Vieux Dublin   was   The Old Dublin

        Pub Alexandre    was   Alexandre's Pub (An English pub run
                                                by a Parisien) 


     Giving a British pub a French name is really ridiculous!

     I suppose British pubs were bound to be among the first targets -
     being internationally recognised as British institutions! :-)

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Bla, bla
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 03:50:06 GMT

In article <CLAMEN.92Jul22210909@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>In article <mede.711843101@cunews> mede@alfred.carleton.ca (Meghan Ede) writes:
>
>   RE: Schooling in Quebec
...
>   Schools are more expensive to run in French because of the supplies.
>   Textbooks have a much smaller market, and with the lack of a previous
>   generation of scintists, usually must be translated or imported.
>   Quebec is trying to build a sufficient group of academics in a wide
>   range of disciplines to be able to provide its own textbooks.

It's "unfortunate" that in order to do research in science, there is
drastic need to use English.  Someone who does their science education
in French only will have great difficulty in keeping track of the
"wide world of science," in which most of the journals and primary
sources are published in English, with second place probably going to
German.

>   Students in English schools will take the easy way out and teach
>   science in English, rather than doing the hard work of developing
>   a significant library of French research material and textbooks.
>   It is important therefore, to ensure that enough people study all
>   subjects in French to both create a critical mass in those fields
>   and to create a demand.

Isn't this a bit of a circular argument?  Especially when the
"therefore" doesn't seem to refer to anything?

And it seems to assume some particular assignment of responsibility
for creating French libraries.  I think I could substitute the words
"stimulating business", "increasing domestic markets", "South Africa"
and "police weapons", and get something that looks only slightly more
repressive...

>   Experiments in immersion orf "bilingual education" have proven to be
>   very poor ways to achieve this critical mass. Science at the 
>   University of Ottawa, for example, is an English discipline, even
>   when supposedly offered in french.
>
>There are far more students (English OR French) then there are
>students at University of Ottawa.

True, there aren't THAT many students here, but the issues ARE on the
right scale.  If a small "test case" won't work, then you can be
pretty sure that there will be problems when you look at bigger
situations.

In my program, we ``officially'' offer courses in both official
languages.  In reality, I don't know of ANY time at which any of the
core courses were offered in French.  (In spite of the fact that there
are quite a lot of francophone professors!)  I heard that it happened
ONCE, a few years ago.  Most of the students ARE bilingual, but French
is seldom one of the two languages.

-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:22:39 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Jul28.090039.21380@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:
>From article <Bs2uL0.AsI@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
> Denis Beauregard writes:-
>
>> And the Acadia was a british land since 1713.  They did not repeat in 1763
>> for an economical reason : it was too much trouble to handle those
>> NEUTRAL FRENCHes.  ANd they could not kill everybody directly.  Other
>> colonies would had rebel.
>> 
>> And someone shown me some papers about the 1755 deportation, about the
>> harm they had.  WOrking like slaves in New England.
>> 
>> I would say that in 1763, they were afraid of some effects on their
>> American colony.
>> 
>> But don't talk about respect please.
>> 
>
>  Maybe I should start whining about the Norman Conquest and the Battle
>  of Hastings. :-)
>
>  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||

Remove your sunglasses, Steve.  
My posting was a response to the hypothetical fairness of the English during
conquest.  Original posting was made so that we think we should be
grateful to be allowed to speak French.  Actually, there was no more
laws to forbid local languages in Ireland and Scotland and in those
countries (Et vive l'Ecosse libre) I wouldn't be far from truth if I'm
not true, in saying that English is now the majority language.


-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Friday, 31 Jul 1992 10:47:34 EDT
From: Peter Gogolek <GOGOLEKP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: God Save your Queen
Distribution: can

>
>BTW, is it true that the King or Queen of England is prohibited from
>marrying a Roman Catholic? As a person who does not believe in
>discrimination on the basis of religion (not to mention being an extremely
>lapsed RC) I find such intolerance unacceptable for the head of state of
>Canada (assuming this prohibition does in fact exist).
>--
>Jim Robinson
>robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
>{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson
>

Yes, it is true.  It is also illegal for the English Monarch to
be a Roman Catholic, or anything except C of E.  This should be
unacceptable to Canadians, who don't have an established Church
and who are in large number non-Anglican.

Peter Gogolek
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Monument to de Gaulle
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:15:16 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

>>>>>> On 23 Jul 92 16:05:26 GMT, thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) said:
>	[...]
>  > soldiers.  This man had the gall (forgive the pun) to
>  > come over here, and interfere uninvited in the internal
>  > affairs of Canada, in an extremely ignorant and disruptive
>  > manner, by saying something he never bothered to justify,
>  > even in his memoirs.  The bad taste is very strong.

sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>Tu aurais pu dire la meme chose de la reine. Recemment elle
>est venu et elle a parle d'un Canada uni, ou quelque chose
>du genre. En plus, on a erige une statue en son honneur tout
>recemment.
>
>Tu aurais pu aussi parler de cela, mais tu-as choisi de ne
>parler que de De Gaule...

To see the difference, please note the words "interfere", "uninvited",
"ignorant", "disruptive", and "unjustified".

interfered?   The Queen was not "entering into the concerns of others"
              because Canadians are her subjects.
uninvited?    She was invited.
ignorant?     She knows what she's talking about.
disruptive?   She called for unity.
unjustified?  She was thus fully justified.

As for the statue, I haven't seen it.

If Quebecers hope to remain within the Commonwealth after
separation, then it will be prudent for them to show
respect for Her Majesty.

Thomas Hood
--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Monument to de Gaulle
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:09:07 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1676

From article <1992Jul23.154103@IRO.UMontreal.CA>, by robichau@IRO.UMontreal.CA
Benoit Robichaud writes :-

> Il ne faudrait pas oublier que cette genereuse et courageuse assistance
> du Canada a ete mise sur pied en vue d'empecher l'avance des forces
> allemandes en territoires anglais (ou tout du moins faire cesser les
> bonbardements sur la Grande-Bretagne).
> 

  Just had to interject here that both my parents were children in the
  Eastern edge of London during those bombing raids. (In fact their
  families new each other.)

  Their education was totally disrupted. Apart from the constant 
  disruptions to their classes and to general routine due to air raids,
  fires, destroyed buildings, devastated homes, deaths, sleepless nights
  spent in damp, smelly, overcrowded makeshift air-raid shelters -> the
  fit and able teachers were sent away to fight.

  My mother still gets claustrophobia and is terrified of flying!


  Mr. Bouchard should take note:-

  It wasn't to stop a possible invasion of England that Canada got
  involved. It was to fulfill her duty as a member of the international
  community of civilised human beings to help put an end to a ruthless,
  evil and terrible regime (member of the Commonwealth regardless)!

  I would hope that, given the same circumstances, Canada would do no
  less - with or without Mr. Bouchard's approval.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||