From: pafford@metis.rtp.dg.com (Randy Pafford)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:30 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <9209220025.AA05287@spsgate.sps.mot.com>, rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
|> -> |> I've only fired one pistol where a death grip was warranted. It was a
|> -> |> prototype 45-70 revolver loaded with hot rifle loads. The grip I use
|> -> |> and teach is the "firm handshake." That's all that's required for rapid
|> -> |> recoil recovery in the hottest factory guns. Many people who use the
|> -> |> suspension grip are doing so to compensate for other fundamental errors
|> -> |> like a cocked wrist. If you don't maintain a straight wrist, your groups
|> -> |> will grow as inconsistent muscle tension allows the weapon to twist by
|> -> |> varying amounts in your grasp before the bullet leaves the barrel. By 
|> -> |> using a suspension grip, you let the gun free recoil during the period 
|> -> |> the bullet is in the barrel. This compensates for the poor wrist angle.
|> -> |> But the loose grip doesn't let you recover quickly, and in some weapons,
|> -> |> will impede function or cause injury.
|> -> 
|> -> Interesting demo I learned:
|> -> 
|> -> Grip gun (e.g. 1911 .45) normally in one hand.
|> -> Move bottom two fingers away from grip, and pull palm of hand away from grip.
|> -> You are now holding gun with 2nd finger under the trigger guard 
|> -> (its normal position), and the web of your hand between thumb
|> -> and forefinger (normal grip here also).  Much easier to show than describe 
|> -> verbally.
|> -> 
|> -> Anyway, pull the trigger. The gun does not leap out of your hand like
|> -> a wild animal. Its not the best grip for rapid fire, but it demos the 
|> -> fact that that recoil is quite controllable.
|> 
|> 
|> Randy, have you actually tried this with a 1911 .45, or are you speaking
|> about something with little or no experience?  I have been shooting a .45
|> for quite some time and I would definite NOT recommend that this be done.  I
|> think it is rather silly to take chances with, at the very least, dropping
|> an expensive, loaded firearm.  A stunt like this can be dangerous, even if
|> it is possible.  Let's all try to remember that guns are dangerous and
|> should be treated with the proper respect.  The shooting range is NOT the
|> place for "I wonder what happens when I do this?" mentality.

As the wording implies, I have actually tried it.  Everyone in one
class I took got to try this [so "combat" guns with combat type loads 
were in use].  If you hold reasonably firmly (a death grip is not required)
with the finger and web of hand, the gun will not, as I said, jump out of
the hand.  If the description is not clear, then I take the blame for that.
If it makes you nervous, single load the gun.  A person with small hands
might have a problem with this (although none of the 10 or folks in the 
class I took did).  The teacher was a reputable instructor, who works mostly
with law enforcment, but sometimes gives classes to civilians.

This is not a "stunt", or silly unless you are misreading (or I miswrote!) the 
description of this demo, and I am surprised anyone who's shot much
finds it all that surprising.  The palm of the hand does little to control
the upward push of recoil, and I apply less pressure with the last
two fingers than with the 2nd finger anyway [i.e. most of the recoil
control is via the parts of the hand still on the gun].

I wouldn't try this with a .44 magnum, but for most .45s and 9mms it's not
a problem.


Randy