HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shivanan@nyquist.usc.edu (Mr. Shivanan Bhajekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 29 Dec 1992 11:52:17 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyquist.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec25.040926.36952@slate.mines.colorado.edu> imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:

	stuff deleted [...]
>
>Thanks God I am a responsible citizen of Pakistan and have four wives and
							    ^^^^

	A serious question. What do the other three do when you are busy
	with one? Play rummy with themselves?

	Shivanand Bhajekar

>I would prefer donkey over ni-shit, puppet and deepuck.
		
	You have fantastic taste!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
From: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:28:33 GMT
Reply-To: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
 <dbose.724793192@khamsin.aem.umn.edu>  
 <1992Dec19.213117.9208@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,
 <dbose.724807670@khamsin.aem.umn.edu> <Bzop04.447@sunfish.usd.edu>,<dbose.725240976@khamsin.aem.umn.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

In article <dbose.725240976@khamsin.aem.umn.edu>, dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose) writes:
>shariq@charlie.usd.edu writes:
>>>
>>>
>>Very impreesive that a fag is proud of his heritage. I am really proud of you 
>>Faggot.
>
>>Shariq.
>
>	BABY SHARIQ , 
>			WHY DON'T YOU COME OVER TO UMN ALONG WITH
>
>			SHAMMI DARLING TOO ??.
>
>			BELIEVE ME  BADA LUTF AAYEGA !!
>
>			YOU'LL REMEMBER THIS CHRISTMAS THROUGHT
>
>			YOUR LIFE .
>
>			ARE AB AA BHI JAAO , JAANEMAN !!!
>
>						DEEPAK
Deepu Beta, 
          Oh I am so sorry that I could not receive your message in time
otherwise I would have made it. Unfortunately I could not make it. I am 
coming to Minneapolis to watch the Vikings game next weekend. Hope to see
there, if you give me the time and place.

Shariq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose)
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:49:36 GMT

shariq@charlie.usd.edu writes:
>>
>>
>Very impreesive that a fag is proud of his heritage. I am really proud of you 
>Faggot.

>Shariq.

	BABY SHARIQ , 
			WHY DON'T YOU COME OVER TO UMN ALONG WITH

			SHAMMI DARLING TOO ??.

			BELIEVE ME  BADA LUTF AAYEGA !!

			YOU'LL REMEMBER THIS CHRISTMAS THROUGHT

			YOUR LIFE .

			ARE AB AA BHI JAAO , JAANEMAN !!!

						DEEPAK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:10:08 GMT



Syed Irfan Hyder writes:

==============================================================================
>Doesn't answer the question. Why is a *political state* required to establish
>an "islamic" society ?

Answer is very simple. Islam is a DEEN, not a religion.
It has "laws" and "regulations" that need the political instrument
of the "state" for their enforcement. As Islam is not simply
some obscure set of rituals that can be practiced in isolation
it needs some political expression. Remember need for the Medinite
State?
=============================================================================


I had some questions. 

How is the DEEN of Islam (if we were to accept that Islam was not "just another
religion") different from the civic laws of today?

Why is it necessary to cause such convulsion in human history, cause so many
innocent deaths to bring in something which, IMO, is already part of the civic
laws of any civilised society?

Take the spirit and intent of the laws in any society and one can see the
amazing similarity in the guiding principles which shaped the laws of society.

Why is there a compelling need to drive a wedge between peoples in the name of
religion ?

Iqbal never explained how he justified the creation of a muslim/islamic state
which required the movement of millions of people from their homelands whether
by choice or circumstance.

The creation of the Jewish state of Israel solely on the basis of religion
which resulted in the mass expulsion of Arabs and non-jews is derided by the
entire muslim world and possibly by a large number of Pakistanis; but I've never
understood how the creation of the muslim state of Pakistan was justified in the
same breadth by the same people.

--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan Engineering Council
From: S.G.Abbas@massey.ac.nz (S.G. Abbas)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 04:37:05 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c



Dear
Aslam-o-Alaikoom,

The office of Pakistan Engineering Council has their HO in Islamabad who
deals with the membership etc. Address is:

	Pakistan Engineering Council
	Margalla Road,
	F-6
	Islamabad

The procedure is that you should pay fees from the year if graduation.
Therefore if you were graduated 4-6 years ago,it will be advisable for
you to get a life membership by paying Rs.1100/ as lumsum payment. Even
if you are a fresh graduate I will recommend you to pay for life
membership. Draft in favour of Pakistan Engineering Council Islamabad.
You are required to be a member of PEC by law if you wish to do an
enginnering job in any company / govt or semi govt organization. It is
advisable to get the "application form" from their HO and then send the
photographs/certified copy of your degree (in some cases they ask for
orignal degree) etc.

Good luck

Ghazanfar
(S.G.Abbas@massey.ac.nz)

Palmerston North
New Zealand
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18941 soc.culture.indian:42283 soc.culture.bangladesh:7182
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 29 Dec 1992 18:00:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Salam writes:
>> 	A "general concept" without any basis is not very useful and certainly
>> 	does'nt allow a conclusion that Muhammad knew what he was talking 
>> 	about in the sense of corresponding to observational reality.
>
>      The general concept is never for any scientific use. It is quite
>possible that Muhammad (SW) didn't know the exact details or He might knew,
>who knows, but God definitely knew and knows what he had revealed to his
>prophet.

	It is extremely possible that Muhammad did'nt know anything (or
	"God", for that matter). Without any corroborating evidence for
	his speculations, Muhammad is as bad as any other man who claims
	to know the secret of life :)

>> 
>> 	Unfair, IMO. The OP clearly made a tall claim, throwing in agreement
>> 	with "data" without saying what it was (if any, i.e.)
>> 
>       What is this IMO?
>       You are taking the word "data" literally and trying to make something
>out of that. It is a reference to the details given in Qur'an. Some of them
>are discussed in the book. BTW, the original article (paper) was in French.

	What deatils? That's what was questioned. Quran has *NO* details
	about anything which would stand strict scrutiny.

>>>They are simple, sensible and intelligible.
>> 
>> 	Even Aristotle was intelligible. But in no way connected with
>> 	"reality".
>> 
>> 
>         You are again doing the samething as you did before. Yes Aristotle
>was not connected with "reality", but the Qur'an is.

	on what basis? What makes Aristotle any lower than Quran? Both had the
	same modus operandi. Say something without justifying.

>> 	The scientific achievements of the former left tell-tale marks.
>> 	Muhammad's speculations did no such things and as such, imagination
>> 	does'nt need "existing knowledge". 
>>
>         That is exactly what Dr. B has made clear that the Qur'an is neither
>a book of scientific achievements nor any one's speculations. 

	If not speculations, then philosophy. Maybe "good" philosophy. But
	the very fact that busy B was trying to show an agreement with
	Science means that he's hinting that Muhammad knew what he was
	talking about i.t.o. observational reality.

It wasn't
>dependent on "existing knowledge". IT IS DIVINE. 
Dr.B reached this conclusion
>after an objective study of Qur'an. 

	Whhaaat? He found theu an "objective" study that Quran is DIVINE?
	Shows his credibility. Science and "Divine" don't gel. 

He found nothing in the Qur'an which
>contradicts well known scientific knowledge instead there is a great deal
>of agreements.

	So? you can always twist sentences to get meanings not intended.
	
	FFT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: inssppx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Satya Polavarapu)
Subject: ROOMMATE WANTED - ATLANTA
Summary: roommate wanted - Atlanta
Keywords: roommate wanted - Atlanta
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:49:57 GMT

Hello fellow netters,

	I am looking for a roommate to share a 3 bed room apartment in Atlanta
begining from January. The apartment is conviniently located within 10 minutes 
drive from both Georgia Tech and Georgia State. Also, MARTA (public transport)
LIndbergh Station is within walking distance.  Cub Foods, K Mart, Office depot
and several fast food restaurents are near by.

	The room rent is $ 160 per month and the new occupant will get a privatebed room. Currently 2 Asian graduate students are living in this place and we   need the 3 rd roommate.  

	There are several South Asian and International students living in this
complex (Lindmont) now. 

	Please call Satya at (404) 814-0384 for further details.


	Thank You and Happy New Year.

						Satya
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:32:34 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

Javed Ahmed Khan
  The whole idea of Pakistan was based on the premise that muslims must strive
  for an Islamic "political" state and the inspiration for such a premise was
  said to be derived from Islam. Hence I wanted someone to give me some evidence
  for the premise being made.

Aftab Ahmad
  Dear Javed. This thread is on the screen for months now. I did not
  see one historical evidence on the above claim. I will really appreciate if
  you will join people like myself in your conversation just by mentioning a 
  little bit on how you got this idea.

Syed Irfan Hyder
  What type of historical evidence do you want?
  Please, mention specifically?

  I have seen this problem with all the proponents who oppose the
  creation of Pakistan. They always clamor for evidence, but when
  evidence is presented, they turn away.


You got a BIG problem Syed.  Anyone who differs with your viewpoint, you 
catagorize that person first and  argue later. For example, how in the earth 
did you ASSUME that Aftab was against creation of Pakistan?
I have been reading his postings for a long time, and his letters do not
give this impression.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18823 soc.culture.bangladesh:7106 soc.culture.indian:42015
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 25 Dec 1992 19:45:31 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


>imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:

>>So many dogs barking at me . 

	I always knew dogs were intelligent....




Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Hey cousin!
Date: 31 Dec 1992 05:16:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu


	Cousin marriages among Muslims
	------------------------------

	Cousin Marriages are pretty common among Muslims, especially
among Arabs and Subcontinentals. What is the reason for this. I know it
is not prohibited in Quran, but it is not supported either. In fact Quran
does not say anything about cousin marriages.
	What are the advantages of cousin marriages?
	What are the disadvantages of cousin marriages( in-breeding)?
	How about cousin marriages generation after generation?

	Any experts with scientific background to discuss this issue?

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland, Ohio


	
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18976 soc.culture.indian:42401 soc.culture.bangladesh:7200
From: shivanan@nyquist.usc.edu (Mr. Shivanan Bhajekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 30 Dec 1992 22:27:43 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyquist.usc.edu

Posted for FFT:

In article <1992Dec31.112841.13157@topaz.ucq.edu.au> salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.203201.45959@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>    Yes, I am quite fascinated by mathematical descriptions ! Is it pagan ?
>      I appreciate that you fascinate mathematics. I myself am a mathematical
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	:):)  


>>    Your innuendos against Hawking are merely stupid. Needless to say, please
>
>    I think you are not in touch with the mainstream mathematical physicists.
>His work is well disputed though he has done some good work. The trumpet of his
>credibility is blown out of proportion to sell his book, "A brief history ...".
>It was money making business.


	Excuse me but that's plain hogwash. Give me one physicist, mathematical
	or otherwise, of Hawking's stature who's not well-disputed. Hawking
	had God-like reverence even before he was to write the book. His
	credibility does'nt beg propaganda but rather, rests on his own work.


>>    go thru' the posting of Milind Saraph (where he quotes Pervez Amirali
>      I have read it. That is irrelevant.

	Why is Pervez irrelevant and busy B not? Pervez has some very good
	comments on B.. and pretty pertinent ones.


>     It is not the matter of the vision of the future. I have insisted on the
>point that Dr.B's work is NOT a "proof" of the divine nature of the Quran. It
>is a personal testimony. It just happened to be that Dr.B is a scientist and
>his testimony carries the scientific notions. He appreciates the scientific
                                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^
>aspects of the Quranic description of nature because he is a scientist
^^^^^^^^^

	He makes a pretty poor scientist since he seems to have forsaken the
	basic tools of his trade. Milind, here's how Salam has been trying
	to have the Quran as Divine and ascribe "scientific value" to it.


>has talked about God and religion in term of science. He is much criticised
>because his references are to the Quran. A famous Australian theoretical
>physicist Paul Davies does the samething except that he associates with the
>"western theology" and is praised for that reason. His book "The mind of God"
>has won the UREKA prize.

	 To compare B with Paul Davies is ridiculous. And can you produce ONE
	quote of Davies where he accepts the conventional God? His book
	"The accidental universe" might give an impression to the careless
	reader that he's talking
	about a grand designer. He does nothing of the sort. Nor does he
	in "The mind of God"

>
>     I don't understand why you take Hawking's work as the gospel truth. I 

	And why do you take the Quran as the gospel truth?

	FFT
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 23 Dec 1992 13:40:17 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <aftab.725117985@nsisrv> aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:
>
>
>	The concept of political state was not known to Arabs of that time.
>(Haroon ur Rasheed discovered Aristotle). But as a natural law, when you

I guess Dr. Hamidullah in France would tear his hairs on this discovery!

Dr. Hamidullah did his doctorate from a German University in the 1940s
Since, then he has published over hundred books. 
He has written over 900 hundred articles in scholarly journals. 
Most of his works are in German, French and Italian. (Not many
of his books have been translated in English.)
His French commentary of Quran is published in 5 volumes.

His area of research: International relations of an Islamic state.

I have recently gone through two of his books.
One is a translation in Urdu of a collection of articles in French.
Title: "Rusool-e-Akram ki siyasi zindagi"
	Political life of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

The other book is in translated in English:
Title: "Muslim conduct of an Islamic State".

P.S.

Dr. Hamiddulaah now in his 80s has some years ago discovered one
of the earliest written manuscript of Hadiths in a Berlin Museaum.
The Hadith manuscript was written in 58 A.H. As such, it puts
to silence all criticism on Hadith that alleges them to have
been written after about 200-300 years. Silences all criticism
of prominent critics like Goldhizer and J. Sachacht.

He has also proven from the texts of the Jewish books themselves
that it was Ismail who was being sacrifized by Ibrahim not Ishaq.
Jews seem to think that Issac (Ishaq) was being sacrificed.
A major discovery.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 27 Dec 1992 14:24:06 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec25.164037@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:
>
>So how does the example of USA justify the contenion? 
>
>When any muslim country is taken as an example to justify some unfavourable 
>view about Islam, why is recourse taken by many to the claim that these muslim
>countries do not represent an Islamic system?
>
>Its easy to pick up isolated events to use as a stick to berate a system
>whether it is Islam or secularism.


Let me clarify the point I wanted to make when I gave the example
of USA and its tussle with Communism.

The world today "generally" holds 
	(i) secularism as the most "equitable" policy towards people
	(ii) Democracy as the most "effective"  system
		of government
	(iii)  Bill of rights are taken to be the ultimate RIGHT
The imperative of holding this as an ultimate
solution of all the problems (at least all major), compels the holders
of the solutin to  fight any other system that challenges the solution.

Thus, it is a natural imperative of holding some thing to be the ultimate
soultion and panacea for all the  problems of a society, that  "compels" 
the holders of the solution to fight any system
that challenges it for that place. Communism challenged it and found
itself being faught against by the West __ the upholders of such panacea.

If one considers  i-iii to be the solution and grants holders of i-iii 
the right  to fight any  Y that challenges it, 
then they must also give the same
right to Islam. The concept of secularism defines the perimeters
in which any other belief and creed can co-exist within i-iii.
It is not necessary for all other systems to have the same perimeters.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18834 soc.culture.bangladesh:7111 soc.culture.indian:42034
From: banerjee@hsc.usc.edu (Samit Banerjee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 26 Dec 1992 10:39:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu

In article <BzuK2v.G1r@news.cso.uiuc.edu> nd3375@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Nishit Dey) writes:
>>So many dogs barking at me . How wonderful :-)))))))))
>				            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  Very soon I will find somebody who will be willing to keep you as a pet.
>Hey fafat and samit, will you guys keep Mustafa IDIOT for few days till I
>move to an apartment where pets are allowed.

Heavens NO!!!! What a sacrilegious idea. Keep a filthy, abused, discarded
mongrel that no one else wants, as a pet. Surely that's not what you are 
suggesting!  Why, you couldn't even pay me to kick his behind, let alone 
allow him to rove unwanted and unsupervised in my home. 

I have a better idea. Why don't we set up a "Help Mustafa doggie" fund with
charitable (and yes tax deductible!!) donations from people on SCI, have him
neutered and put him up for adoption in Somalia or South Korea. I have always 
heard that they make a wonderful dog stew down there.

Ah, the culinary extents some people will go to..........
-- 
Samit Banerjee,			    |  
University of Southern California   |  A man who smiles when things go wrong,
Internet: banerjee@scf.usc.edu      |  has found somebody to blame it on.
Bellnet : (213) 342-1401            |
From: an3925@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: DEEPAK BOSE KI HINDU L*** KI AISE TAISE
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:34:59 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.culture.pakistan

OTHER DOG THAT DEEPAK BOSEADIKA BARKING AGAIN 
APRIL FOOL BABY :-))))))))))  MERE G*** MEN DUM HAI.

DEEPAK BOSE KI G*** MEN HAATI KA L*** :-)))))))
SALA KUTTEY KI AULAD :))))))))

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

MUSTAFA IBRAHIM 

imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu




-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 2 Jan 1993 17:00:27 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan2.193234.15044@prism.poly.edu> ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:
:
:Aftab Ahmad
:  Dear Javed. This thread is on the screen for months now. I did not
:  see one historical evidence on the above claim. I will really appreciate if
:  you will join people like myself in your conversation just by mentioning a 
:  little bit on how you got this idea.
:
:Syed Irfan Hyder
:  What type of historical evidence do you want?
:  Please, mention specifically?
:
:  I have seen this problem with all the proponents who oppose the
:  creation of Pakistan.  They always clamor for evidence, but when
:  evidence is presented, they turn away.
:
:
:You got a BIG problem Syed.  Anyone who differs with your viewpoint, you 
:catagorize that person first and  argue later. For example, how in the earth 
:did you ASSUME that Aftab was against creation of Pakistan?
:I have been reading his postings for a long time, and his letters do not
:give this impression.

Do I have BIG problem, or someone else has that problem? 
       [Note I am again using again a third person :):)]

 How in the world did you assume that my reference to the 
 "proponents who oppose the creation of Pakistan" refers to Mr. Javed."

Please, read my post again. It only says that I have seen this problem
with all the proponents .... It does not say that "any one who has
this problem, necessarily, opposes the creation of Pakistan."

By the way we were talking about Islam being the 
 purpose of creation of Pakistan and setting aside the 
technicalities of the semantics. The  more appropriate way of 
interpreting my statement could be
that "this problem exists with all people who oppose the creation
of Pakistan on the basis of Islam.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^