HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:11:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <Nov11.191952.43471@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>> Rolls a tire into the Grand Canyon.
>
>Those who grew up during this period in the western US understand
>that every side canyon or gully had a tire rolled into it, if not
>an entire car.  It was part of our culture and entertainment...
>kind of like every side canyon now has a yuppie on a mountain bike
>with a power-bar in his pocket.

This is a nice image... every Friday night hundreds of teenagers
getting in their trucks, driving out into the National Forest,
and rolling yuppies on mountain bikes into canyons...

--Peter
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: supermarket backpacking
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:16:04 GMT

In article <84005@ut-emx.uucp> onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew) writes:
>In article <ahallam.721789834@pv2119.vincent.iastate.edu> ahallam@iastate.edu (J A Hallam) writes:
>Have you ever had Chinese food in your backpacking trip?  I have.  Well, first
>of all, I'm Chinese (from Hong Kong).  However, if there is a decent oriental
>supermarket in your area, you may be able to find some decent dehydrated 
>Chinese food.  They are packed in paper box on the outside.  When you open them
>up they look very much like those dehydrated food packs you can find in REI
>but they taste much better!  

Frying Asian style requires a lower stove temperature than boiling
which is convenient at high altitudes and winter.  However cooking oil is highly
flammable and one has to be careful.
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:51:22 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

The (unannounced) charter of the USFS is to provide subsidized timber 
and grazing rights to select, entrenched corporations. 
This isn't going to change by charging hikers a few bucks to walk
through a clearcut or overgrazed grassland.

Mike
From: skimmel@amex-trs.com (Steve Kimmel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:56:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: American Express Travel Related Services

In article <Nov11.191952.43471@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>Careful: Knocking Abbey in rec.backcountry is like standing up in church and
>shouting, "I hate Jesus."
>
>> Rolls a tire into the Grand Canyon.
>
>Those who grew up during this period in the western US understand
>that every side canyon or gully had a tire rolled into it, if not
>an entire car.  It was part of our culture and entertainment...
>kind of like every side canyon now has a yuppie on a mountain bike
>with a power-bar in his pocket.
>
>Which of these causes more errosion?
>
Of course in those days if you didn't bring a tire or a car you could
always push loose boulders off the sides of the canyon.  But then, large
rocks are natural.

-- 
Steve Kimmel   N7ULW           Phoenix, AZ      |                         
Internet skimmel@amex-trs.com                   | my views only, in no way
UUCP	 uupsi!amexphx!skimmel                  | the views of my employer.
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hunter shoots partner
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:19:59 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

How about the woman in Maine hanging clothes in her backyard. Shot and
killed by a hunter. The hunter got off because the
court decided ``she had no business
being in her backyard during hunting season!''

Ah, America!

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne)
Subject: Re: Chattahochee recomendation
Organization: University of Absurdity
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:34:32 GMT

In article <BxzHsp.AK2@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips) writes:
>hang the Chattachochee, try the Cohutta wilderness.

Well, the Cohutta wilderness *is* part of the Chattachoochee National
Forest.

>Its sorta touristy but a short hike is to go up I75,
>enter the Cohuttas from the north and hike the Beech Bottom
>Trail down to Jacks River Falls, about 3 miles good geo/hydro.

One of the most popular and crowded routes in the Cohutta's.
Sometimes you can go in there to camp, and find 200 others
already there (Greyfield, for example). This is a beautiful area,
but is increasingly coming well over-used, thanks to articles
in Backpackers Magazine, and posts like this. If you go in the
Cohutta's, please practice minimum impact - it may even become
an official policy (along with regulations) of the Cohutta district
Forest Service (public meetings are being scheduled now).

>There are !lots! of state parks in N. GA with these same features.
>See Unicoi, Anna Ruby Falls, Tallulah Gorge, Amacolola Falls etc.
>

Anna Ruby Falls would be a good choice if the grandparents came
along.


-- 
David R. Mayne         1372 Normandy Dr. NE             Atlanta, GA 30306
david@wmms.UUCP        (404) 876-0943        ...!gatech!bagend!wmms!david
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: awatt@trentu.ca (Alison Watt)
Subject: information request
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:37:00 GMT


Dear all,
  I am doing a paper concerning the use of wilderness for commercial 
wilderness vacations.  If anyone has participated in such a trip or knows 
anything at all about them, please let me know.  Opinions are welcome.
Thanks to all in advance.

Alison Watt
Trent U
Peterborough, Can.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Hunter shoots partner
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:49:07 GMT

In article <BxzzIM.L7s@world.std.com> ari@world.std.com
(Ari I Halberstadt) writes:
>Disclaimer: reprinted without permission. Whatcha gonna do, sue me?
					   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are you challenging us?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya

	Always a first time.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tom@ulysses.att.com (Tom Smith)
Subject: Re: Alimeter Watches (Update)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:30:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA

In a previous article, dmanke@sanjuan (Dennis Manke) writes:

>If anyone has a new one and has any gripes could you let me know as I'll
>probably be buying my Christmas present in a few days (thanks in advance).

I have a gripe about my Casio Alti-Depth watch.  This is an analog
watch with a digital inset (for time, alarm, altitude, barometer,
depth, etc.).  There is no light for reading the digital part in
the dark, and only the minute hand is luminous!  So I wake up in
the middle of the night knowing that it's twenty minutes after
something.

Is this a design flaw or did I just get a buggy watch?

Thanks,

Tom Smith.
tom@ulysses.att.com			"Hold these pies."
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: FIRST-AIDS KITS
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:02:37 GMT


My first aid kit contains only items that relieve misery.
By that I mean I already know I am not going to save
anyone's life with diahrrea medicine or something for itchy
bug bites or painful sunburn. Life saving stuff is going
to involve shirts wadded up, or paddles and pants making
stretchers, that sort of thing. The first aid kit
keeps people enjoying the trip, and prevents those
cold-miserable-tired-not-paying-attention accidents too.

So, I take Second Skin for blisters and small burns,
Solarcaine for itching and sunburn, something for
colds, fever blisters, constipation, diahrrea, headache,
sore throat, that sort of thing. Bandaids and some sort
of ointment. A sling. An elastic bandage for sprains.
Some big gauze pads, rolls of gauze, butterfly bandaids,
and tape for large cuts or scrapes.

Nothing life saving. But it has been trip saving.

Kate
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:31:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Warm clothing while hiking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

> ...the moment I stop for a break, within 10 min or so, I get chilled to
> the bone!

I know the feeling.  My practice is to be aware of the likelihood of
that (given the conditions), and put on a wool or synthetic hat (cap)
immediately upon stopping, before getting cold.  This makes a *big*
difference.

Also, I look for a place to break that's out of the wind.

Also, I make eating/snacking/drinking my first priority so I'm done and
digesting as soon as possible.  If I still get cold before I'm ready to
resume exercise, I add a layer (like a sweater), which often must be
removed five minutes after continuing.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
X-Xxdate: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:54:03 GMT
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:54:50 GMT

In article <10797@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> Hal F Lillywhite,
hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM writes:
>1.  Provide convenient means of contraception, and
>
>2.  Assure a good chance of survival for children which are born, or
>provide other means for parents to be supported in there old age so
>they won't have to have a lot of children to support them.
>
>If you want to reduce the birth rate, forget the preaching and worry
>about economics.

Interesting and very well stated.  Do you agree that all countries,
whether developed or not, contribute to the usage and thus the
destruction of the eco-system?  If so, then this should be handled on a
global level, the US included.

***************************************************************
**** Laissez le bontemps rouler ****  JB  *  no e-mail address *
***************************************************************
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:21:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <01010064.j53346@titipu.resun.com> ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid) writes:
>hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>> If you want to reduce the birth rate, forget the preaching and worry
>> about economics.
>
>Economics and education.  The two are intertwined, of course, but education
>will have a salutory effect even by itself.

I'd put education ABOVE economics.  It's like preaching, assuming
there's validity to what's being preached.

But behold: The end (of backcountry as we know it) is near, brothers and
sisters, lest we repent and change our wicked ways.

I like open discussion.  It's a learning process.  (Or is it mutually
consensual indoctrination?).
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: other bashing.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:06:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.182636.28571@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <1992Nov15.201031.9408@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
>marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>P.S. Sending more SB's to Ilana today.
I'll look her up this week. You must have found a magic SB fountain...
[...]
>>        Mark Twain (Clemens).
see Ascent, III.

>>        Norbert Casteret.
>
>We don't have NC, and I don't have time to look up his writings.
>But if you could elaborate.
Thought he might get by you. Classic accounts of early French caving.
_The Years Under the Earth_, _The Darkness Under the Earth_, others.

>  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
>Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
>			3 down 1 to go.
Have you checked with Spartan Books?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do I dare                                                                 
Disturb the universe?                                                     
In a minute there is time                                                 
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.                  
  --T.S. Eliot,  The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock                      
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Multiplying in the Backcountry (kids/population)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:01:40 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:50:51 GMT
>FROM:   Greg Jahn <jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU>
[....]
> It sure seems to me
>that everywhere I've gone there are more people now than before, 
>I've certainly seen very distintive changes here, both in town AND
>in the backcountry ... [....]
> the FACT is population HAS profoundly affected the entry
>points to roadless backcountry here in Idaho.  So, who cares what the
>statistics and population models say?  LOOK AROUND!

Your toolbox of concepts obviously includes that of population growth, 
but you might want to consider adding to it the concept of population 
movement. The latter can, in some cases, produce local instances of the 
former. In the last few decades, the US population has notoriously shown 
a tendency to move West and South, a trend quite clearly encouraged, if 
not entirely created, by policy. So your anguish might actually have its 
origin in something other than the statistically invisible 
philoprogenitiveness of North Americans.

--Michael Smith
From: map@violet.berkeley.edu (Pollen Lab;103 ESB;38108;;NZ29)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cat mistakes sleeping bag for litterbox
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:08:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov20.055711.1989@tc.cornell.edu> eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander) writes:
>I had my sleeping bag in storage, stretched out on the floor of a closet.
>Imagine my surprise when I found that my girlfriend's cat has been pissing
>in it for the past several weeks.
> 
>This is a decent quality light-weight bag (North Face), made of ripstop
>nylon and goosedown.  The bag was really soaked.  Is this likely to be
>salvageable?

Cat urine's not that bad, at least if it's *not* an un-neutered male cat.
Just put the bag in the washing machine, use a gentle cycle and detergent,
and maybe throw in some baking soda in the rinse cycle.  Put a tennis shoe
in the dryer with the bag, and dry it really thoroughly (not too hot though)
to eliminate clumping.

There's no reason to take this bag to a dry cleaner, and several good
reasons not to.  First off, dry cleaners emit some pretty noxious pollution,
whereas you can use a pretty harmless laundry detergent.  Obviously, you'll
save at least 5 or 10 bucks by avoiding a dry cleaner.  In terms of the
much larger inestment in the bag itself, I've never ruined anything in
the 8 or 10 times I've washed and dried down items, whereas the one time
I sent a down jacket to a dry cleaner, it came back with the down badly
matted and clumpy.

Eric Edlund
U.C.Berkeley Geography
eric@pollen1.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:08:56 GMT

In article <1ebq45INNm42@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
>view.

This practice may have already started.  Some of the ranger stations in
CA now charge a few dollars per person for an advance permit by mail.
Ostensibly this is to discourage overbooking and no-shows,
but I could easily see this as a entrenched means of revenue generation.
I personally wouldn't object to paying a small fee.  It is annoying for
non-profit hiking clubs like the Sierrans and college outing clubs
to have to fork out a couple hundred dollars in advance for a season's worth
of permits.  As with any regulation, when it gets too annoying, then people
may stop obeying it.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: stewe@cs.tu-berlin.de (Stephan Wenger)
Subject: Re: GoreTex bags (was Re: Light & Warm Synthetic Bag: PARADOX?)
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:47:07 GMT

>>On the topic of wet down sleeping bags, any advice on restoring
>>the loft of one thats been completely soaked. 
>
>After washing a down bag, you are supposed to dry it in a large
>front-loading dryer (low heat), with a few tennis balls thrown in
>to break up the clumps of down.  So maybe it's time to wash it.
>
I cannot recommend this tennis ball trick. I washed my Marmoth Gopher
with a special down soap and dryed it (following the instructions) with
some tennis balls in a dryer. The bag wasn't usable after that (ok, it
is usable in normal conditions, but the Gopher should be comfortable at
-20 degree C). I had a unconfortable night near Mont Blanc this year with
this bag.

I will use my new extrem slpeeping bag (Marmoth Penguin) only, if temperature
is below 0 degree C). If it is raining, it is unlikely, that you will die
because of the cold. So, I will try to get down to the next hut, even if its
raining, or take a tent with me. I have never heard of a sleeping bag, or
even of a combination of sleeping bag and bivvy bag, that withstands a
heavy rain. Suggestions are welcome.

Stephan Wenger   stewe@cs.tu-berlin.de
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:9063 rec.climbing:4557
From: clissman@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Yet another tent Q:European tents
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:05:37 GMT
Summary: any good tough ones in Uk/Ireland
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Keywords: expedition tents, Irish/UK availability
Distribution: world
Organization: University College Dublin

Yet another request for opinions on tents.....

I'd like to get a 2-person tent that performs well in very nasty
conditions (strong wind, snow and so on) for a trip to the himalaya
to do a 7,000 metre mountain. Ideally the tent should of course be light,
strong and so on, and I think a dome/tunnel shape with at least one 
vestibule and maybe two doors would  be suitable. 

I'd appreciate if you could e-mail or post recommendations. Price is not
too great a limiter, and I'd think about getting a goretex tent if that was
the way to go. 

One important proviso is that I must be able to get the tent in Ireland or 
the UK - obviously I'd like to see the tent before buying it. 

MAny thanks for any input and opinions,

Ciaran


......................................................................
Ciaran Clissmann, Univ Coll Dublin Ireland, CLISSMAN@CCVAX.UCD.IE
.....................zzzzzzzzzzzzzz how does this .sig thing work ? ....
From: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lowe/North Face/Patagonia, etc...
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:24:03 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

>sh666@selway.umt.edu (Ysidro) writes:
>
>>looking for a new tent and a all good winter jacket.   I like
>>North Face tents alot but I would like to get some info from
>>anyone who has used them extensively...  I usually camp in the
>>Summer/early fall, but I have been known to do an occasional
>>snowshoe.  

I saw a Sierra Design Teros-1 setup.  It is a very nice 2-person 4-season
tent.  Check it out.

>>Also looking into a new backpack.. Mountain Smith/Dana Designs
>>or Lowe... again any one who has used some of this equipment
>>please let me know what you think of it

I love British backpacks/rucksacks.  Berghaus and Karrimor are very popular
in Europe.  I have used both of them.  Berghaus's designs are very practical 
while Karrimor's are fancier.  I personally have 3 Karrimor backpacks (of 
different sizes).  My favorite is their (Berghaus and Karrimor) unique hip-belt
buckle design.  Climb High is the dealer of Karrimor in the States.  However, I
don't think Berghaus is available in the States.  (What a pity.)  Before I 
bought my Karrimor Condor, I did some researches in rucksacks.  I think Dana 
Designs's are pretty innovative; North Face's are quite good too.  Nonetheless,
I still chose Karrimor.   

anDrew 
-- 
+-----------   @}-'--   -----------+  "To Serve, To Strive and Not to Yield"
|      Lee, On-Lit Andrew          |               - Motto of Outward Bound 
|                                  | 
|  email: onlit@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  "Your disability is your opportunity"
|  University of Texas at Austin   |               - Kurt Hahn,  
+----------------------------------+                 Founder of Outward Bound