From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:42:50 GMT

In article <0105011F.athv89@dragon.enigami.mv.com>, cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf) writes:
|> This is an *EXTREME* example.  But the point is that the moderator's
|> oppinion of hirself is really not important when compared to the oppinions
|> of the readership.  
|> 
|> >You're one of the people who has been arguing that the moderator isn't
|> >special, that he's just another reader of the newsgroup.  If that's
|> >the case, then surely he, too, should be able to vote for whomever he
|> >thinks is best able to moderate the newsgroup.  If that is him, then
|> >so be it.
|> 
|> Like I said above, I don't think that the people being voted on should
|> vote in the question.  Especially with the pre-existing weighting.

This is unbelievable.

First, you say that the moderator is just one of the readers, and not entitled
to any special treatment.

Now, you say that not only is the moderator not entitled to any special
treatment, he's also not to officially express his opinion about what he
thinks is best for the newsgroup.

Votes to replace moderators should not be popularity contests.  They are votes
on what the people voting think the best thing for the newsgroup is.  The
moderator has as much right to say what he thinks is best for the newsgroup as
any other reader.  If he feels that he is the best person to moderate the
newsgroup, he has a right to cast a vote in favor of himself.  After all,
since his status is in question, he's just one of the readers of the
newsgroup, and in some ways not even fully the moderator, while the vote is
going on?

In any case, in the EXTREME situation you describe, do you really think that
the net's opinion about the issue is going to be so wishy-washy that the vote
of the moderator is going to cause the result to change?  If so, then he's not
doing as bad a job as you described.

|> At any rate, that is just my oppinion of what the moderator SHOULD
|> decide for hirself.  I do *not* advocate enforcement of said oppinion.

Well, then, we're debating a non-issue.  You think the moderator shouldn't
vote.  I think he should.  End of discussion, I guess.

|> I am not advocating a change to policy.  I interpret the later section
|> which states that the moderator should be selected in the discussion
|> phase, and should be included in the CFV.  Specifically, I interpret
|> the selection of a moderator as falling under these guidelines:

This is unbelievable.  The first paragraph of the guidelines EXPLICITLY STATE.
That they can only be used when CREATING NEW NEWSGROUPS.  They explicitly
state that they CANNOT be used in any other situation.

And yet you proceed to conclude, based on the fact that moderators are
mentioned in the document, that the guidelines can be used to replace a
moderator.  None of the quotes you gave imply anything of the kind.  They are
all talking about choosing a moderator for a new group, which is the only
thing, ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES, that the guidelines are allowed to be used
for.

Your "interpretation" is irrelevant, because it expicitly contradicts the
first paragraph of the guidelines (For god's sake, how can they be more
explicit than, "They are NOT intended as +guidelines for setting USENET policy
other than group creations?"  Is a moderator change a group creation?  No, it
isn't.).  Your interpretation is also irrelevant because it contflicts with
the interpretation of the people who have been chosen by the net to enforce
the guidelines.  Talk all you want, waste all the bandwidth you want, make all
the arguments repeatedly that you want, but it isn't going to do any good,
because the RFD isn't going to go into news.announce.newgroups and the
official moderator address list is not going to get changed.

There's really nothing else to say that hasn't already been said.  You can
have the last word if you want it.  I'm done.

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
MIT Information Systems/Athena              Moderator, news.answers
    (Send correspondence related to the news.answers newsgroup
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