From: news@fedfil.UUCP (news)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: 9'th Category of Evidence / Saturn Myth details
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:25:22 GMT
Organization: HTE




To the best of my understanding at least, the
picture I shall try to present here is not precisely known in great
detail.  Nonetheless, at this point in time, a general outline is
visible, the major elements OF the picture are clear, enough of the
picture IS visible for a viewer to grasp the basic concepts, and at
least one good book has been published (Talbott's "The Saturn Myth").
The "Saturn Myth", Doubleday 1980, although out of print at present,
will hopefully be printed again in the near future.  The scientific
heresy represented by all of this is not going to fold up and die any
time soon.  Too many serious people find the evidence altogether
convincing.

Possibly the best place to start is with a couple of cheap, easily
obtainable paperback copies of several ancient works;  I am going to
recommend the Dover paperback copy of E.A. Wallis Budge's "The Egyptian
Book of the Dead" (yellow cover), and, as a cheap and easy way of
viewing items from both Ovid's "Metamorphoses" and Hesiod's "Theogeny"
and "Works and Days" in one place, Rhoda Hendricks' "Classical Gods and
Heroes, Myths As Told By The Ancient Authors".


Greek authors generally spoke of the antedeluvian world as a golden age,
the so-called "Age of Cronos".  Hesiod says:

        "First of all, the immortal gods who have their homes on Olympus
        created a golden race of mortal men, who lived in the time of
        Cronos when he was king in heaven."

Cronos, as we know, was the planet Saturn.  Ovid describes the golden
age in part:

        The earth gave forth all good things of her own accord, and
        mankind, content with foods created without labor, picked the
        fruit of the trees and the mountain strawberries and the cornel
        cherries and the mulberries clinging to the wild thickets and
        acorns that fell from the spreading oak of Jupiter.

        Spring was eternal, and the gentle breezes caressed the flowers,
        all springing forth without seed, with clear warm air.  Soon,
        also, the unplowed earth was rich with grain, and fields always
        fertile, were white with the heavy beards of corn.  Then rivers
        of milk, then streams of nectar flowed forth...

        After Saturn had fallen to the shadowy lower world [by which
        Ovid intends some location no longer visible to mankind on
        earth], and the earth was under the rule of Jupiter, the Silver
        Age followed...

        Jupiter shortened the length of springtime, and through winter
        and summer and a changeable autumn and a short spring he
        completed a year of four seasons.

        Then for the first time the scorched air glowed with parching
        heat and ice hung frozen by the winds.  Then first, mankind
        lived in houses...


There are several things to note here.  The Greeks and Romans universally
acknowledged former golden and silver ages, during which Saturn and
Jupiter had been "kings of heaven".  There is nothing exotic about the
language;  in the same language, our sun is the king of heaven now.

Charles Ginenthal ("Carl Sagan and Immanuel Velikovsky", page 319) quotes
Immanuel Velikovsky in part:

        "During our conversation [with Albert Einstein at Princeton], I
        took this lead and remarked:  'If one evening I should stop
        every passing student and professor on the campus and should ask
        which of the stars is Jupiter, it is possible that not even one
        of them would be able to point to the planet.  How is it then
        that Jupiter was the highest diety in Rome and likewise, Zeus in
        Greece, Marduk in Babylon, Amon in Egypt, and Mazda in Persia --
        all of them represented the planet Jupiter.  Would you know why
        this planet was worshipped by the people of antiquity and its
        name was in the mouth of everyone?  Its movement is not
        spectacular;  once in twelve years it circles the sky.  It is a
        brilliant planet, but it does not dominate the heavens.  Yet
        Apollo, the sun, -- the dispenser of light and warmth, was only
        a secondary diety.'


The ancients universally associated some sort of a magic mountain
with either Jupiter or Saturn;  some kind of a visible structural
support on which either of them, when visible, were seen to rest.  The
picture of Zeus on Olympus, or Jahweh on Zion.  Eventually, in every
land, some local mountain came to be associated with the original magic
mountain, but these were transpositions of a later day.

It is interesting to note that the ancients found it necessary to
explain SEASONS;  they universally believed that seasons had not existed
in the antedeluvian world.

One may note also that the original great god is always seen inside of
some knd of a ring or circle or crescent of light;  kings crowns and the
idea of halos are a leftover from this idea.


Let's go to the Book of the Dead for a monent.  I am assuming that
anybody serious enough to have read this article this far will have
purchased (about $5) a copy by now.

I should mention the chief item of uncertainty when reading Egyptian
sources on the antedeluvian world.  The various names for Jupiter and/or
Saturn (Ra, Amon, Horus, Osiris, Atum etc.) correspond to rapidly
changing celestial configurations, different time periods, different
usages in different cities, i.e. it is very easy to be off as to which
name represents which at a given time.  Neo catastrophists are fairly
certain that Atum always meant Saturn, Horus always Jupiter, Hathor (the
so-called "eye of Ra") always Venus;  beyond that, it's not possible to
always be sure.


Beginning on page one, it may be seen that Ra, one of the various names
for one of the major gods over certain time periods is represented by a
dot inside a circle and, occasionally, by a dot insode a hoop-snake
coiled into a circle:



                                        x
                               x    x       x
                              x x
                                   x    x    x
                                x
                                    x       x  x x x
                                   x    x    x




It may be seen that Budge is translating into "Eastern Horizen of
Heaven" a symbol:


                                        x
                                    x       x

                             xxxxxxx         xxxxxxx
                             x                     x
                             x      x       x      x
                             x          x          x
                             x                     x
                             x                     x
                             xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


the lower part of which is normally associated with words meaning
"mountain", because the normal context is always something like:

"Adoration of Ra, when he ariseth in <magic mountain symbol>.  Budge, of
course, was writing in 1895 or so.  The concept of Ra being anything
OTHER than our sun, which does rise in the eastern horizen of heaven,
had not occurred to anybody then.

On page 250 (hymn of praise to Ra), we see in no uncertain terms:

        "Thou risest in the horizen of heaven [again the mountain-and-
        ring symbol], and thy disk is adored when it resteth upon the
        mountain to give life unto the world."


Our sun never rests and, when it sets atop some mountain, it's gone ten
minutes later.  We certainly don't picture it sitting there on some
mountain top just glowing and doing its thing.

Any word which means illuminate, enlighten, rays, beams, or anything
like that usually includes the following glyph (also on page 1, for
example):



                                        x
                                    x       x

                                   x    x    x

                                    x       x
                                        x
                                  xx        x
                                  x     x   x
                                 x      x     x
                                 x      x     x
                                x       x      x
                                x       x       x
                              xxx       x        x
                              xx       xxx      x
                              x        xxx      xx
                              x        xx         x
                              x        xx          x
                             x         xx          x
                                       xx           x
                            xx        xxx           x
                                      xx            xx
                            xx        xx             xx
                           xxxx       xx              xxx





Best I can do in character mode on a crt...  sorry.  The idea is that of
a star or planet surrounded by a ring of sorts, atop some kind of a
magic mountain made of lightning forks, which can clearly be seen to
point UPWARDS in sharp contrast to any normal kind of depiction of
lightning.

Likewise also, the familiar ankh symbol is basically a circular
enclosure of sorts atop a kind of a T, basically a glyph for a
structural support of some sort (often, the god Shu).


Osiris, another of the chieftain gods, is also pictured as a kind of a
representation of of dot inside a circle;  actually a human eye, the
form of the eye the ring, the pupil the dot.  This glyph is also
normally pictured atop a magic mountain but, in this case, you shouldn't
need me to draw a picture of it for you with x's on the CRT;  just
pull out an American dollar bill...  it's the oldest metaphysical symbol
the human race has.  Budge mentions Osiris as the so-called "night-sun"
(page 253), more of which later.  We have no "night-sun" now.  Page 253
also contains two very stark pictures of Horus, hawk and solar disk,
atop pedestals.  Horus was normally associated with Jupiter.


Picture a planet such as ours circling a small star such as Jupiter or
Saturn, or possibly a small double star composed of two such, the pole
of the planet pointed straight at the small star.  This means daylight
on one side, darkness on the other.  Always...  you just don't live on
the dark side.  This means, no seasons.  You just pick what kind of
weather you like, and you live at that latitude.  Assuming a close
enough orbit, and I WOULD assume a much closer orbit around such a
smaller body than our present sun, this means that creatures living on
the surface of the planet would also feel, and very strongly, the
gravity of the small, faint star as well as the gravity of the planet.

This, on a planet our size, would enable creatures to grow to sizes
to which, as I have repeatedly demonstrated and as reality and
observation dictate, they cannot now grow and DO not now grow.

Picture a tube of electromagnetic flux between the small star and the
planet (as may be seen now between Jupiter and Io).  Primative people
living on the planet, having no knowledge of physics or electromagnetic
flux tubes, would simply believe that the great god, the small star,
lived atop the magic mountain, and so draw it on the walls of their
pyramids, said pyramids themselves being representations of said magic
mountain, or flux tube.

Picture a ring around the small star or, if the case actually was that
of a double star, a ring of debris held by fields between them:



             small star                 x
                                    x       x

                                   x         x

                                    x       x
                                        x





                                x         x       x
                        x  x                             x   x

                 x                                                 x

           x                                                               x

         x             ring of debris                                       x

           x                                                               x

                                                                   x
                  x                                          x
                        x                                      x
                        x     x                     x x
                                  x       x




                                        x
                                    x       x
             other small star
                                   x         x

                                    x       x
                                        x
                                        x
                                        x
                                        x
                                        x
                                        x
             electro-magnetic           x
             flux tube                  x
                                       xxx
                                       xxx
                                       xxx
                                       xxx
                                       xxx
                                       xxx
                                      xxxxx
                                      xxxxx
                                      xxxxx
                                      xxxxx

                                        x
                                     x  x  x
                                        x
             earth-sized planet    x    x    x
                                        x
                                   x    x    x
                                        x
                                     x  x  x
                                        x







How would a primative, living on the surface of such a thing, draw what
he saw?  Again, check the back of a dollar bill.


The notion of a magic mountain or holy mountain in mythology had
two meanings:  the high part of the earth itself, which was eggshaped
before and for awhile shortly after the deluge, and the electromag flux
tube.

But, the picture gets stranger.

Versions of this basic picture show an astral body atop a magic mountain
with HALF of a circular enclosure about it, variously to the left,
above, to the right, and below the body.  The way I picture this is sort
of like:


                                                       ring dark on this side
                                 ring lit up
                                 this side      *   *
                 sun                          *
                      *
                     ***                     *    *   *    small star(s)
                      *                                     with ring
                                              *      *
                                                  *

                                                  | flux tube
                                                  |

                                                  *  earth


Talbott takes this as
indicating that the ring about the astral body showed phases as does our
moon now, during the various times of the antique day, and this also
indicates that at the time when these drawings were made, shortly after
the flood, that the light involved was reflected, most likely from our
present sun.


You can see that as the earth would spin in the diagram, the lit section
of the ring would appear above, to one side, below, and finally to the
other side of the star.  Talbott shows numerous representations of this in
ancient art.







-- 
Ted Holden
HTE

Xref: sparky talk.origins:8849 talk.religion.misc:12873