HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: The Swedenfinns seek official support from Finland
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:07:39 GMT

[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.nordic ]
[ Author was Jarmo Ryyti ]
[ Posted on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:57:11 GMT ]

An other attempt with better english...)

: This is a translation of the latest issue of Ruotsinsuomalainen (Swedenfinn)
:  of the 10.12.1992.
: 
: FOR THE MINORITY STATuS IS SEEKED SUPPORT FROM FINLAND (was the headline)
: 
: For the aim of the Swedenfinns to attain an ethnic and lingual minority
: status is seeked now official support from Finland.
: 
: The issue is taken on the agenda of The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues set by Finland's cabinet, (Suomen valtioneuvoston asettama
: pakolais- ja siirtolaisasiain neuvosto), who gave the declaration of
: the minority status made by the swedenfinnish organisations for the Finnish
: governement last friday. (4.12.92) The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues for their part received the proclamation of the minority
  status during the  Roots in Finland-festivities last august. 
: 
: According to the committee, Finland shall include the Swedenfinnish
  aim for the minority status into  the issues in official  negotiations
  between Finland and Sweden.
: 
: On the communication made by the committee is reminded prime minister Carl
: Bildt charactrazing the situation of the swedenfinns. Bild has given
  a statement that due to a long common history of the countries,
   finnish settlements in Sweden and great numbers of swedenfinns give
  a right to give a special status for the swedenfinns.
: 
: 
: Ps.
: My comments,
: 
: Very difficult to translate, because of byreucratical text!
 You should notice that Carl Bildt is a concervative. During the social
  democratical time swedish
: governements aimed only to assimilate swedenfinns by all means.
: As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
: "Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
: politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
: and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did
: not rise international publicity. Source for the latest statement is
: an issue of Etel{-Suomen Sanomat, a respectful newspaper in Finland,
: issue of 11.12.92
: 
: Down with swedish faschism and oppression of the finns in Sweden!
: regards,
: jarmo ryyti
: 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: Joke!
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:58:43 GMT

In article 18DEC199215381536@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov, edwind@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (T. NG) writes:
>The following is the shortest speech Boris Yeltsin has ever delivered to 
>the Russian Congress of Deputies:
>
>"In the state of our economy, being transformed from a socialist,
> centralized system to a capitalist, free-market system, I have a bad news 
> and a good news.  The bad news is that we are out of toilet papers, and 
> the good news is that we are also out of food."
>
>
>T. Ng
>


I wish I could at least smile to this Joke, but do not get discouraged,
Keep trying, You are much better then Mr. Dimitri Vulis.

(:|)

Henry.
From: enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eric J. Nute)
Subject: What is happening in West Ukr.
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:07:03 GMT

To the net,
		I spent a year in the city of Lviv from fall 1990 to summer 1991.  Has
anyone been there more recently?  I am really asking for information about
the curretn state of affairs in Ukraine.  Thank you very much.

Eric J. Nute



Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human,soc.history
From: CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU ("VALENTINE M. SMITH")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Best wishes ...
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:12:38 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

for whatever holiday you observe whenever, and here's hoping 1993 is a
good year for you, the "CIS," and Russia. Val
From: edwind@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (T. NG)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Joke!
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:38:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

The following is the shortest speech Boris Yeltsin has ever delivered to 
the Russian Congress of Deputies:

"In the state of our economy, being transformed from a socialist,
 centralized system to a capitalist, free-market system, I have a bad news 
 and a good news.  The bad news is that we are out of toilet papers, and 
 the good news is that we are also out of food."


T. Ng
From: jlbass@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Moscow Magazine,Moscow Energy Institute-Information Please
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:53:29 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University


	I need some information on where someone can find the magazine MOSCOW
MAGAZINE. I have a friend going to Moscow in February and I've read this
magazine before and find it very informative. It's too bad that I can no longer
find it in Memphis. I'm also interested in knowing the email address(if there
is one) of Moscow Energy Institute. I studied there in the Summer of 1990 and I
would like to send email to the rektor of the "Russian for Foreigners"
department. 

	Thanks,
	John Bass(JLBASS@Msuvx1.memst.edu)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: soc.culture.baltic/balticum
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:46:01 GMT

In article <1gacd1INNltk@rodan.UU.NET>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
writes:

> This is a request for discussion of creating of the newsgroup
> soc.culture.baltic, which I think is long overdue.

After last week's heated discussion, I think I second the motion!


> The group would be unmoderated.


Don't you think there might be some need of moderation?


> The group would be devoted to the countries Estonia, Latvia and
> Lithuania, often lumped together under the label "The Baltic states".


This creates some problems.
Finland is a Nordic and a Baltic state, the majority of population
of which consist of Baltic Finns (most of them Eastern Balts).

According the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, Finland, Estonia and
Latvia were "the Baltic countries". In the document:
"Die Baltischen La"nder, Finnland, Estland und La"ttland".
According to these "gentlemen", Lithuania belonged to central Europe.
The definition was not exclusively their own, but was shared
by many of their contemporaries.

And in the history there were still another Baltic province in Russia,
the Ingrian lands.

What unites the "Baltics" (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) is the
Soviet occupation. This is a sign of NEGATIVE identity.

Estonia - perhaps even Latvia - belongs to the Nordic countries.
And Finland and Estonia are twin nations in the same manner
as Latvians and Lithuanians are. And Lithuanians have more things
in common with Poland than with Estonia, I suppose!

Should we continue to hold this NEGATIVE IDENTITY of Baltic
countries or create a new definition instead?

Of course, we could start "re-thinking" Baltic as a cluster
of states and cultures (even some Polish and Danish affairs
concern us, Sweden and St.Petersburg).

Why not call the group soc.culture.balticum?

Today, the Baltic sea unites our cultures and economies,
when the iron curtain does not exist any more! This might
denote a new POSITIVE identity.


> Topics would include culture, networking, language, politics,
> shortly anything you expect from a soc.culture.* group.
>
> The prime language in the group would be English, but the use of
>local
> languages should not be condemned.


Wondeful!


> Despite the existance of BALT-L, I think there is a need for s.c.baltic.
> If nothing else, a lot of the material in
>talk.politics.soviet,  once
> you filtered away Mutlu/Arigc, concerns the Baltic countries.


Still, unfortunately, the "Baltic" discussion belongs to the "Soviet"
group as long as Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are occupied
by the Russian army, against their will. This is a shadow from
the past, which we should get rid of as soon as possible.


> My planned schedule is to let the discussion period go before
> Christmas, and the start the vote around January 7th, when things
> are back to normal.


I support soc.culture.balticum - let us work (and chat) for the future!


with Baltic regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: the memory of 2.5 million is not that silent
Date: 14 Dec 1992 09:12:54 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Arxid) writes:
re: "Schuerzinger" insults the silent memory of 2.5 million Muslim people.

Arxid Bey,

judging from the amount of crap coming out of your account, I do not
find the memory of the '2.5 million' people that silent.

In fact, I have a good reason to believe that they've all risen from 
the dead and started reading and posting news, all using your user-id...

Bah Bah Bah

Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    "Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene ?
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com                 Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene !"
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:9623 soc.culture.soviet:10923 soc.culture.europe:10359
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Rectifying Verbitsky's misunderstandings
Date: 12 Dec 92 05:06:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec12.000653.18420
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

I would like to apologize before Tapani Hietaniemi for
the harsh tone of my previous article, and to clear up
some not very significant points.

In article <1992Dec11.161253.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.223245.18383@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@brauer.harvard.
>edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:


>Here is my point, expressis verbis, as I said above:

>>>Well, Russian and Russian... The Soviet Russian communism was not
>>>totally devoid of Russian features. Like the Russian language which
>>>was spread to whole Imperium. And even Tallinn got it's Lomonosov
>>>street...

>>       That's not Russian language, Russians will tell you
>>       on and on. That's newspeak. Better for everybody
>>       concerned if they used Esperanto (well, they
>>       almost did). In Moscow they have also streets named
>>       for Estonian communists (as well as Lithuanian,
>>       Belarussian, Hungarian etc. Commies, writers and
>>       scientists). Unfortunately, unlike Latvia and Lithuania,
>>       Estonia is not known for its writers or scientists,

>Estonia IS well known by it's writers. It is just you that do not
>know it. Some natural scientist could speak of Estonian science
>about which I know next to nothing...

	Sorry, Tapani, you are right: there are some great 
	Estonian writers. Anyway, they are, as far as I know,
	not older than 50-60 now, and the writer gets the
	street named if he is born before 1910 or such.
	Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all Estonian
	writers of some reknown are people of Soviet formation...



>>       This is what this discussion is about: Russian-speaking
>>       population of Baltics supported the Baltic independence
>>       in the name of freedom, and the native population - in
>>       the name of nationalism.

>When it comes to Estonia, unfortunately not the WHOLE of Russian
>speaking population supported the Estonian independence, as you
>might know...

	You are right, the Narva situation was pretty messed
	up from the start... The Latvian Russian-speaking population
	was on a big part from "intelligentsia", while Narva
	is a city of factories, so there lives proletariat
	with its own set of prejudices. All the workers of
	big factories in Russia are doing now, it seems,
	is strikes; in Narva the same energy finds the
	outlet in anti-Estonian sentiments.

	Misha.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.europe
From: Mark Lipsits <ml12@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Armenia Sends Emergency Appeal to the United States
X-Xxdate: Fri, 11 Dec 92 19: 52:51 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: ml12@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:49:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.023749.15963@leland.Stanford.EDU> Artavazd
Khachikian, arto@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Aggressive, stupid, uncalled for and incompetent. Why?
Mark Lipsits.  Cornell University Engineering ComSci.  AKA
ml12@cornell.edu 
                                        ***Lynah Faithful***
From: ssn@nail.msk.su (Mikle Rzuanin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Information about Russia:Politics,Economy,Markets,Business news.Daily or Weekly!
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:02:52 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: NEWS NETWORK SERVICE, Ltd
Reply-To: ssn@nail.msk.su
Keywords: information, Russia, Politics, Economy, Markets, Business

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From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Bilingualism in ESTONIA (Was: Baltic Russian-speakers)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:17:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.104545.3977@cs.chalmers.se>, tammet@cs.chalmers.se 
(Tanel Tammet) writes:


> I wouldn't mind having
> Estonian-German bilingualism in Estonia.


Pssst.. don't tell this to the Russians, but in the medieval Tallinna
vanalinn (old town) the usage of Russian should be forbidden and a strictly
German-Estonian culture should be established for ever (in this order
:-) :-) :-)


> The situation is VERY different. It is quite different from Finland
> already in Sweden, where the percentage of finns is noticeably higher
> than the percentage of swedes in Finland. 


Right! I am not for Swedish-Finnish bilingualism in Sweden, that
would be ridiculous. Sweden is a multicultural country in totally
other meaning of the term than for example Finland is.

(And in parenthesis: I really think that Sweden is the best country
and state on the face of the earth - this is no joke, this is my
conviction. Most of Finns are just jealous...)


> As you know, even after
> the WWII there were rather draconic rules in Sweden blocking the use
> of Finnish, even things clearly against "human rights". 


You might be right, unfortunately.


> Ask Jarmo
> Ryyti about that. 


I think you have understood that he is rather alone with some of
his opinions. As a bilingual Finn (or at least I hardly strive
to be one) I do not share any of his opinions about Swedes
that, after all, are the pillars of culture in Finland!


Hej paa dej
Stefan Sandudd
(Tapani Hietaniemi paa svenska)
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Kill file &Serdar Argic
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:45:15 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec9.064820.1306@jyu.fi>
ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

> Is there any enlighted persons around who know how to create a kill file
> for honorable Serdar Argic. I envy his industrious efforts and of course
      ^^^^^^^^^
I wouldn't call him honorable -- Argic is an AI program -- a computer.

> agee everything to the last and smallest detail he is writing
> but still I have not
> enough hours in my finnish day and night to read everything, without
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh really.  Helsinki nights aren't long enough for you?  Why not move
up to Utsjoki?  :-) :-)

> mention, important articles. I would appreciate to get a printed
> books of his high quality productions instead if possible. But for
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Defaming the memory of the Armenians is "high quality"??
 
> this time I unfortunately have not enought time, my employer bocomes
> angry if I use my entire time at my pc...and loose my job in a worsiest case.
> I would not blame honorable Serdar, but my poor understanding on this
> email-systems or how do you call it. Even driving a car I do not very
> much think how its motor actually works but in this case I need some
> advice to create a kill-file. I already beforehand ask for excuse from
> honorable Serdar Argic who certainly deserves from my side better
  ^^^^^^^^^
See above.
 
> notice, but the curcumstances are hard for me too, even if not so hard
> as for honorable Serdar which I appriciate very much. The finns and turks
> are however the sons of honorable Chingis Chan...and we of course once
> unite our efforts what ever they might be, we have a common history also
> in Santa Claus business to be guared so that the others do not stole him
> from us. 
> 
> Grateful of any useful and simple advice,
> jarmo ryyti


--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:9742 soc.culture.europe:10478
From: tammet@cs.chalmers.se (Tanel Tammet)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Russian learning Estonian and vice versa
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:52:18 GMT
Organization: Dept. of CS, Chalmers, Sweden

In article <1giibfINNqol@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.231011.19443@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>>
>>But in that case is that very practical? Assume for a moment
>>that the Estonians decide that they don't want to learn Russian.
>
>Why in the hell they will learn the language they know already?

Younger guys do not know Russian.

Regards,
	Tanel Tammet
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:9697 soc.culture.europe:10430
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Russian learning Estonian and vice versa
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:04:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec13.231011.19443@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>
>But in that case is that very practical? Assume for a moment
>that the Estonians decide that they don't want to learn Russian.

Why in the hell they will learn the language they know already?
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Bilingualism in ESTONIA (Was: Baltic Russian-speakers)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:04:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.232817.20011@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se 
(Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> Tanel Tammet (tammet@cs.chalmers.se) writes:
>>However, I do not agree on the same kind of bilingualism as is the case
>>in Finland. Estonia was NOT a bilingual country 50 years ago, and
> 
> Hm, I'm too lazy to look up the figures right now, but wasn't
> the proportions of Russians in Estonia 50 years ago in parity
> with the one of Swedes in Finland, that is 6-7%?


According to the 1934 cencus, the population of Estonian republic
consisted of


Estonians        88,2%
Russians          8,2%
Germans           1,5%
Swedes            0,7%


Well, literally speaking, Estonia should not have THE SAME KIND of
bilingualism as Finland. The Swedes were a tiny majority and the amount
of Swedish-speakers is even smaller today (0,1-0,2 %).
When we formulate the question in this way, then we agree...

But still, shouldn't Estonia pursue SIMILAR bilingualism towards
the RUSSIANS as the Finnish overwhelming majority pursues towards
the Finnish Swedes (finlandssvenskar) ...?

asks
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Helsingfors universitet
From: peter@OUZO.BROOKS.AF.MIL ("Peter G. Petropoulos")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: test
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:57:58 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>


  test
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:9794 soc.culture.nordic:7941
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinns seek official support from Finland
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:57:49 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Jarmo, why don't you talk about something more exciting -- like Matti
Nykaenen's sex life?  :-)

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:9631 soc.culture.soviet:10942 soc.culture.turkish:12963 talk.politics.mideast:23289 soc.rights.human:4480 soc.culture.europe:10366
From: shteingd@oak.math.ucla.edu (Semion D. Shteingold)
Subject: Re: Rectifying Verbitsky's misunderstandings
Reply-To: shteingd@oak.math.ucla.edu (Semion D. Shteingold)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 02:37:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.161253.1@cc.helsinki.fi>,
thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec10.223245.18383@husc3.harvard.edu>,
verbit@brauer.harvard.
|> edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
|> >
|> We agree that CCCP was a superpower. Anyhow,
		^^^^^^^????????

|> I am not claiming that USSR "did not exist" :-).
|> 

|> Right! Many of death camps were situated in Finno-Ugric areas
|> of the CCCP. But still, these are areas that even nowadays Russia
	  ^^^^
??????????????????????
|> wants to hold...
|> 
|> Estonians restituted their Republic for regaining their freedom
|> (which was destroyed by CCCP).
|> 			   ^^^^
?????????????????????????
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet