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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:53:05 -0700
From:         WERLING <awerling@NMSU.EDU>
Subject:      Christ (Was: Homosexuality)

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992, Brent Winiger wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:31:16 -0700 WERLING said:
> >On Mon, 2 Nov 1992, Brent Winiger wrote:
> >
> >> Many of us on this list would tell you, Andrew, that
> >> we at one time also doubted the existance of God.  I personally will tell
 you
> >> that I could not have returned to Christianity had it not been for an ample
> >> supply of historical evidence for the Christian premises.
> >
> >I'd be interested in learning of this evidence.
> >
>
> Oh-oh. Can they kick me off the net for using too much bandwidth?  I'm not
> sure, but I know I can get fired from my job if I write as much on this
> subject as I'd like.  (Afterthought - because I'd be not working)

Hmmm....probably the same reason why I've been worrying about my
grades... ;-)

>      - Many extra-biblical sources from the first and second centuries confirm
> Jesus as a man of history, and that he worked supernatural miracles.

How can you confirm supernatural miracles?

>      - The life-changing Christian experience we can witness in millions of
> people like myself provides evidence.

I've had this happen ... life-changing spiritual things ... but I do not
attribute this to Jesus or God...

> >This is what I do believe: Jesus was a thinker, a critic of the Judeaism
> >of his contemporaries, and one of many people of his day with followers
> >(disciples) who thought he was the messiah.
>
> But he didn't claim to be a thinker.  He claimed something much more
> significant.  Do you think he lied?  Maybe he was crazy?

He may not have claimed to be a thinker.  But he was most certainly
one...his anti-Pharisee agenda (God-inspired or not) was well-thought-out
and argued.  In other words, he had a new agenda, and he was pretty
intelligent.

If the biblical account is correct, of course.

> >> According to Scripture, He
> >> claimed to be God, and convinced many of his contemporaries that he
> >> indeed was.
> >
> >Lots of people did the same thing.
>
> Nonsense.  Budda didn't claim to be God.  Mohammed didn't make that claim.
> Those guys are still in the ground.  Jesus rose from the dead.

I'm talking about Jesus' contemporaries.  There were many "messiah
figures" roaming the streets and countryside.  And they all had disciples.
The only one Christians ever mention was John the Baptist, and the writers
of the Bible either document or create scenes in which J the B's possible
messiahship is discounted and undermined.  (Head chopped off, things he
says about Jesus, etc.)

> >Did not Charles Manson do something similar?  How about Pat Robertson,
> >Orrell Roberts, et cetera?
>
> Again, nonsense.  I've never heard of Manson working a supernatural miracle.

Look into his eyes in a photograph.  You'll turn to shivery ice.

> I don't think Mr. Robertson or Mr. Roberts  claims to be a diety.

They sure have connections to God, though, don't they?  Connections that
ordinary humans don't seem to have.

> And when
> they die, I doubt if you'll see them back in three days.

You're probably expecting this, but I didn't see Jesus come back in three
days either. ;-)

> I believe the latter
> two worship Jesus, and although people give them lots of money, I don't know
> anyone who worships Roberts and Robertson.

They didn't worship Jesus while he was alive; they followed him.

> >> I think that question
> >> is in fact, so important, that if a person is in doubt, it greatly
 out-weighs
> >> any other concerns he or she may contemplate.
> >
> >I don't know if this is true in general or not.  I also don't know if it
> >"should" be.  Maybe it's a completely irrelevant question.
>
> Sure it is true Andrew, since our eternity may depend on it.

It may, and it may not.  There are so many other possibilities, however,
that it is as important as considering that we should live good lives for
now, 'cause when we die, perhaps we all cease to exist.

Happyfag!  Andrew Werling on Planet Yip  awerling@nmsu.edu  yip@acca.nmsu.edu