HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss brunch in NYC: thank you
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:20:00 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) confronts Doron:
  >>Everyone was stupendously nice to me and me feel right at home.
 >What an *AWFUL* thing to say!  Why next everybody will be thinking
 >that Greg, Tovah, Joe, JT, Dave, and I are *NICE*.  What a horrible
 >thought, why the next thing will be e-hugs, and heaven knows what
 >all.  

See what happens when I don't get there?  Everyone else has to take
up the slack.  And where, when we need him most, is Jeff Shaumeyer 
and the soc.motss.nice crew?  Nice indeed.  Have an eclair.

 >Now you go back out there and tell them how awful we were to you
 >this instant!  Quick boy, our reputations as heartless, cruel,
 >Cobra People is at stake!  Fail to obey, and I shall summon
 >*THE* Cobra Woman, then you'll be sorry.  really you will.
You rang?

Hey, what the dickens ever happened to GGGrandma KKK?  I'm still
not used to being Cobra Woman, and I'm no good at all at this
punishment stuff.  I need help, or at least training.  (This is not
to be confused with discipline.)

 >ry@usl.com
 >Cobraette
Uh huh.  You bet.

Cobra Woman
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:51:43 EST
From: bb <BURGER@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?

In article <1993Jan21.035753.5353@Princeton.EDU>, dem@cs.princeton.edu (Doron
Meyer) says:
>
>Hello again everyone.
>
>I'm starting to contemplate coming out selectively to very
>close friends.  However, I want to make sure to do it right,
>as I can't undo things if I screw them up.

True. Once you're out to someone (read: the world through that grape vine)
you can't go completely back in. Mind you, who would want to? ;-)

>What I'm asking is what things that worked and what you
>wished you had done when coming out to your best friends.

Remember that everyone is an individual and will have differing responses to
what you have to say. My route was to select my most catholic friend and work
stuff out on/with her. This was, although, my second attempt. My first attempt
to be myself took place when I was a teen and the "adult/friend" was so
disgusted that I locked myself away for a couple more years and a new city.

>Did it work better to mention it in passing, as if it was
>inconsequential (i.e. "I can't wait until the next meeting of <insert
>gay and lesbian organization here>") or to be straight out? (i.e.
>"Bob, I have to tell you something important that I've been hiding;
>I'm gay.")

I found that I had to do the straight out approach with all of my family
members and some of my more dense friends. I don't think that I used the
"hiding" line -- it sounds like a "What do you mean? Don't you trust me?"
generator.

What I did notice when I started this coming out process was that with some
people I used the term "not heterosexual" as opposed to "gay" or "homosexual."
Semantics? Maybe. But I just found that term easier with/on a few of my more
straight friends.

Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: Re: Are Gay Men Richer, Really?
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:09:50 GMT
Organization: The Edge of the Final Frontier
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
: 
:In article <18356@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D.  Owen
:Rowley) writes:
: 
:>Financial analysis shows that gay men have more disposable
:>income than their strayt peers.
: 
:This is an often-repeated remark.  I've seen it used by
:those opposed to us.  I've never seen the evidence used to
:support the claim.  Anyone have a pointer to solid research?
:(The _Advocate_ probably won't do.)
: 
:-- 
:[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
:[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
:[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
:[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]

Jess;

	Could  it be  that  *most*  gay men  don't  have  the  financial
	obligations  of their  strayt  peers?  IE, kids.  Like  Jennifer
	says in another  followup - two gay males  would  probably  make
	more money than a man and a woman.

	My lover  and I found  that  our  disposable  income  went  down
	considerably after my kids moved in with us.

--
Regards,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:41:56 GMT

[]
Panic is both inappropriate and unnecessary.  Yes, Congress
may try to enact legislation creating a legislative ban, but
let's not forget the presidential veto.  A solid, rational
letter to your congressthing would be invaluable.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 00:56:50 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell) writes:
>Not _all_ Brits are inclined to so destroy their tea.  I, for one,
>enjoy both tea and coffee, although which I drink is largely dependent
>on the mood I'm in an the time of day it is.
>I take my tea quite weak, without milk.  Also, I prefer to drink a
>specific tea, e.g. Darjeeling, rather than the usual stuff that goes
>into the so-called "Great British cuppa".

Agreed.  Still, it's worth remarking on the fact that generic British
tea is still drinkable, while American is not.  I take the best of both
worlds, and hate the deficiencies in the beverage department when in the
"wrong" country.  I adore strong coffee, and the stuff you get served in
Britain is uniformly awful - I shudder to think about the number of
times I've been given a "cappuchino", meaning a regular coffee with
pseudo-cream squirted from a tube on top!  Buying a cup of non-herbal
(?!) tea in America can produce similarly appalling results.

So I make my own tea in the US, and my own coffee in the UK.  People
tend to regard those of us with such habits rather "picky", at least
until they actually *try* the experiment ...

>(And does anyone apart from myself like lapsang souchong?)
>(forgive my possibly erroneous spelling)

The spelling is fine.  The tea is glorious - I just finished a mug.  It
has the same obnoxious features I adore in my favourite whiskys .. :-)

Mike, who prays he gets a job soon so he can afford a coffee machine in
his new apartment
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey (and Katharine)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 11:36:00 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <mattm-280193094747@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon), getting the attribution
wrong, writes:

> In article <PC.93Jan27183852@bacon.linus.mitre.org>, 
> pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase) wrote:

Sorry, *X*, but I was the one who wrote:
> > Au contraire!  Katharine Hepburn is as convincing
> > a Southern grande dame as I would be.  She's pretty
> > good in Summertime, now that I think of it.  The
> > rest of the time, though, it's all variations on
> > the one character she *can* play convincingly: herself.  
>
> You are saying that "Bringing Up Baby," "Long Day's Journey Into
> Night," The Lion in Winter," "Summertime," "Rooster Cogburn,"
> and "On Godlen Pond" are all variations on *one* characterization?

Yes.  I'm also saying that "Alice Adams", "Pat and Mike",
"The Philadelphia Story", "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner",
and "African Queen" are all variations on the same
characterization.

> Nonsense.

The truth hurts, don't it?

> Katharine Hepburn is a great movie star

Yes, one of the greatest.

> *and* a great actress,

I keep forgetting that when you're not dancing yourself
to a frenzy at Cybele's (= Madonna's) shrine, you're
busy admiring Meryl "Frank Gorshin" Streep.

> and is fulling deserving of the recognition she has received.

Yes, she is.  It still doesn't make her a great actress, though.

Arne

Xref: sparky soc.motss:57837 rec.music.cd:9078 rec.music.misc:30765
From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: Looking for YAZZ "Wanted" CD or tape
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:13:18 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:

>In article <mattm-200193101630@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.164032.8596@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>,
>>rosario@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Rosario Gennaro) wrote:
>>
>>> I am looking for the only album of a group called YAZZ. 
>>> The album came out around 6-7 years ago and its title is "Wanted".
>>> The hit from that album was "Stand up for your love rights" a song 
>>> with some kind of gay motif in it.

Also, "The Only Way is Up" was a big dance hit.

 >>In fact and without doubt, there are *two* albums by YAZZ(OO) -
 >>the post-Depeche-Mode pre-Andrew-Bell with Alison-Moyet brainchild
 >>of Vincent Clarke.  Very cool.

 >I dunno, *X*, is Rosie really talking about Yaz (one 'z'), the same
 >band?  In which case he certainly has neglected 'Upstairs at Eric's'
 >as one of their albums.  However, I'm not familiar with "Wanted",
 >and Yaz had certainly disbanded by 1986, the date he sticks on the
 >song.

You are indeed talking about two different groups.

Yazz, featuring a girl with short white hair, whose name I cannot remember,
indeed had an album "Wanted" featuring "Stand Up..." and "The Only Way...".
Domestically, it was out about 88/89.  I think that the songs were first
released in Britain at least a year earlier.  I think that the CD was
available, but I think has been long discontinued.  It was bright yellow
with squiggly blue and pink writing.  I recall the lead singer going solo
after the project, recording under her real name.

Yaz, in the US, and Yazoo, elsewhere, is the "group" that Vince Clark formed
with Alison Moyet circa '81-83, post-Depeche Mode, pre-Assembly,
pre-Paul Quinn, pre-Andy Bell/Erasure. They had two albums,
"Upstairs at Eric's" and "You and Me Both", both of which are usually
available for a "Nice Price". They had a few other singles, unavailable
on albums depending on which country you live in; most notably,
"The Other Side of Love".

There is also an old, defunct (I think funk) group called Yazoo in the US,
which is supposedly the reason why Vince Clark shortened the name to "Yaz".
Two groups cannot have the same name.

BG
bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Telephone calls for national politics
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:09:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.044204.7827@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Am I the only one who is disgusted by this latest game in politics,
> thousands of citizens telephoning various people in Washington DC and
> registering their "vote" for or against the ban on queers in the
> military?

I don't think it's that new, although perhaps the amount of media
attention it gets is. (All part of the increasing trend in the News
Biz to provide "numbers" on every subject whether they mean anything
or not.) Every now and again there's a hot issue that gets people
calling their government. Most of the time, on most issues, 10 calls
on any given subject is considered "a lot".

> But what the hell? The news media are reporting the "tallies of calls
> for or against" like they were votes or scientific polls or something.

Saves them the trouble of coming up with substantive reports.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ctc10@cl.cam.ac.uk (C.T. Charlton)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:39:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.184923.7160@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
suggests:

> you might try to think in terms
> of *not hiding* it. Like, if your friends are talking about who they
> went out with last weekend, you can talk about it too, without
> changing pronouns. Similarly if the discussion is about who's
> attractive: "Say, look over there, she's pretty cute, isn't she?" --
> "He's not bad either."
> 
> You probably want to choose pretty carefully *which* friends you do
> this with.

I disagree, I have found altering pronouns works fine. Those who're prepared
to notice, will; those with closed minds won't; if anyone makes an issue of it
and you don't want to, it can be dismissed as humour.

Besides, I like going man-spotting with my women friends ;)

  - Chris

-- 
Chris Charlton
JANET: ctc10@uk.ac.cam.phx, Internet: ctc10@phx.cam.ac.uk
rmail: Queens' :) College, Cambridge CB3 9ET, UK
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: FYI: March On Washington EMAIL address
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:36:09 EST
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The Steering Committee for the 1993 March On Washington for Lesbian Gay Bi
Equal Rights and Liberation is on the Internet and can be reached at 

MOW@GLIB.ORG.

   
---
"If you stick a knife nine inches into my back and pull it out three inches,
 that is not progress.  Even if you pull it all the way out, that is not
 progress.  Progress is healing the wound, and America hasn't even begun to
 pull out the knife." ---El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X)
From: buckmr@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:46:03 GMT

rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:


>Yesterday's (01/20/93 -- Inauguration Day) New York Times
>ran this editorial, reprinted here without permission...

>    ---------------------------------------------------

>In the heat of the campaign, Bill Clinton pledged to issue
>an executive order to repeal the ban on gay men and lesbians
>in the military services.  The pledge was not made lightly.
>Mr. Clinton was courting the votes and contributions of
>homosexuals -- and the approbation of all fair-minded
>Americans distressed at discrimination and gay-bashing in
>all areas of society.


>But a contentious civil rights issue like this is not
>appropriate for buck-passing.  If social change is to occur
>against widespread opposition, it is best ordered from the
>very top, carrying the weight and moral authority of the
>Presidency.

>Mr. Clinton needs to proceed with his original plan to issue
>an executive order.  He could lift the ban on homosexuals
>immediately while granting the military time to devise new
>policies, if needed, governing housing, gay social clubs,
>dependents' benefits and other issues.

Cool beans! But I'm STILL curious about whether the Executive Order will cover
anything else but the Armed Forces? I mean, the FBI and CIA still discriminate,
don't they?

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. "See YOU in D.C. 4/25/93"
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
``Due to a change in Presidential Administrations, the light at the end of the
tunnel has been turned back on.''---The Management.
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Smoke in gay bars
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:59:59 GMT

In article <727702249snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>, graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary) writes:
> Path: jjmhome!transfer.stratus.com!noc.near.net!news.centerline.com!uunet!pipex!demon!drummond.demon.co.uk!graeme
> From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)
> Newsgroups: soc.motss
> Subject: Re: Smoke in gay bars
> Message-ID: <727702249snx@drummond.demon.co.uk>
> Date: 22 Jan 93 04:30:49 GMT
> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk
> Reply-To: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk
> Organization: not
> Lines: 26
> X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
> 
> In article <47-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan19.172601.16385@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>, aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) writes:
>> >
>> > However, it still amazes me that smokers are allowed to inflict irritating
>> > fumes (much worse than the airborne "irritants" that make the LA
>> > authorities close elementary schools) on non-smokers. I'm very tempted to
>> > carry around a ghetto blaster with a tape of some really horrid German
>> > experimental electronic music, and turn it on at high volume whenever
>> > someone starts to smoke... Not that smokers are outside their civil
>> > rights, I'd just like to have a hobby that is equivalently annoying to
>> > others. ;-)
>> >
>> hee!  i LOVE it!  time to buy a ghetto blaster, preferably one that
>> plays CDs, so that i can blast Laibach at people (we have them on CD,
>> not tape), or Einsturzende Neubaten, but we don't have any of that, so
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> i'll have to acquire it first...  fun stuff, that...
>>
>>                                                 -ailsa
>>
> 
> Aren't they the people who throw cutlery down mineshafts just so they can
> tape it and incorporate it into their musak???
> 
> 
> ===Graeme
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Katharine Hepburn
Date: 27 Jan 1993 11:10:41 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <15677.2b663797@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> 
msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
> In article <1k4ld7INNgd5@mizar.usc.edu>,
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> > I think she's [Katharine Hepburn, that is] a great movie 
> > star (but one I don't care for), on the level of Bette 
> > Davis and Greta Garbo.  I do not think she's a great 
> > actress, but then I don't think Davis and Garbo are great 
> > actresses either.  Acting is sort of beside the point.

Yes, I see that I'll need to refine that.

> It strikes me that the people you call "great movie stars but not
> great actors" are the ones who have enormous screen presence, as though
> you look at them and think, "Ah, Garbo," and not "Ah, Ninotchka."
> (I got the laser disc of this movie for Christmas: I was so pleased.)

Yes, that is indeed part of it.  Somewhere in this thread
I wrote that the truly great movie stars -- Garbo, Davis,
Katharine Hepburn, Dietrich -- create their own reality
on screen.  You never for a moment forget that this is a
star; as you commented, you do look at them and think, "Ah,
Garbo!"  I don't think that's a bad thing.  Far from it, in
fact, and I'm sorry that this kind of star no longer exists.
I love star acting, and would rather sit through Garbo in
"Mata Hari" or "As You Desire Me", or Dietrich in "The Devil
Is a Woman" or "The Scarlet Empress", or Davis in "Another
Man's Poison" or "Dead Ringer", than watch the kind of fake
star turn so common these days.

> But this doesn't mean that she's not a great actress.  The projection
> of that screen presence requires great talent, I think.  

And one either has that screen presence or one doesn't: it's
not the kind of thing that can be taught or manufactured (look
at Madonna's screen career to date for an example of this).

> The fact
> that Garbo made the character of Ninotchka her own doesn't mean that
> Ninotchka was Garbo.  Compare Cyd Charisse in Silk Stockings, if you
> need convincing that Garbo did something special with the character.

Well, Silk Stockings was a mistake from the word go.
I don't dispute the fact that Garbo did things with 
the characters she played, but I have to tell you that
one of the things that surprised me so much when I 
saw the LA County Museum of Art retrospective (I ended
up seeing all of her American films in the space of
about 4 weeks) was how limited her range really was.
That didn't change my feeling that Garbo is the 
greatest screen star of all time.

> Perhaps it would help me understand what _you_ mean by "great actor"
> if you gave me an example of someone you thought was one.

Jo Van Fleet.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Gays in the military (was:Re: Book Review "The Homosexalities")
Followup-To: misc.misc
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:06:55 GMT

In article <14078@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>The real difference, is that being black isn't evidence of being
>emotionally disturbed and damaged, as being a homosexual is.

And this, boys and girls, is why we don't crosspost to
talk.politics.misc.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"Wait a minute! You guys are NINJAS!"
                ---The Tick
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey (and Katharine)
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:50:36 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <PC.93Jan27183852@bacon.linus.mitre.org>, pc@linus.mitre.org
(Penny Chase) wrote:

>    Au contraire!  Katharine Hepburn is as convincing
>    a Southern grande dame as I would be.  She's pretty
>    good in Summertime, now that I think of it.  The
>    rest of the time, though, it's all variations on
>    the one character she *can* play convincingly: herself.  

You are saying that "Bringing Up Baby," "Long Day's Journey Into
Night," The Lion in Winter," "Summertime," "Rooster Cogburn,"
and "On Godlen Pond" are all variations on *one* characterization?

Nonsense.

Katharine Hepburn is a great movie star *and* a great actress,
and is fulling deserving of the recognition she has received.

*X*
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Wil Wheaton at MacWorld!!!!!
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:14:44 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan21.182924.22412@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
(Jess Anderson) wrote:

> >That's known as twit for tat.
> 
> Tee hee.  This started me cackling ...

I find that easy to believe.  But application of "twit for tat"
would make Lodenkamper the twit, and while BL may be overbearing
and moralizing, "twit" is perhaps not the right word...
 
> >>For the record, the day I find Cmdr. Riker attractive is the day they put me
> >>in a padded cell.
> 
> >Make it so.
> 
> ... and this put me on the floor.  You have my vote for Best
> Come-Back in the One-Two Punch category for 1993 so far.

I hadn't realized how truly disadvantaged you were, Jezeboo.

*X*