HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 3 Sep 1992 01:37:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) says:

>Thus spake psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski):
>>
>
>The basics!?  Right.  Exactly what is "basic" about RBIs, except that it's a
>stat you grew up with?
>
>How about the *real* basics: plate appearances, hits, times reached base,
>doubles, triples, HRs, stolen bases, caught stealing.  In other words, what
>the individual player did with his chances.  You can't get any more basic
>than that.  And that's all we use.  You're the one who keeps trying to smuggle
>in these arcane teammate-dependent weirdo stats like "RBIs" into what should
>be a very simple evaluation...
>


   Is there any value to a statistic like RBI/(# of opportunities)?  The number
of opportunities would likely be weighted for runners at different bases.  It
seems that this would eliminate the performances of the rest of the team and
reflects what "the individual player does with his chances".  I assume that
this has been discussed in this forum before and may enter into the dangerous,
thoroughly disproven realm of "cluth hitting".

SfH
-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                 **  That restaurant is so crowded that 
Case Western Reserve University   **    nobody goes there anymore. 
Department of Physics             ** 
Cleveland, OH 44106               **                   Yogi Berra
From: subhas@ring7.rutgers.edu (Subhasish Roy Choudhury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Blockbuster trade
Keywords: Canseco, Sierra, Witt, Russel
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:19:44 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Just before roster freezing Oakland pulled off a big one.

Canseco for Sierra, Bobby Witt and Jeff Russell. Now Sierra is a free
agent, but how on earth could Texas give up twwo decent pitcher, when
their main problem is pitching. Now I like Oakland's chances over
Toronto or Baltimore/Mulwaukee. Over the Braves? Don't think so.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: reynard@susie.cs.scarolina.edu (John Reynard)
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  4 Sep 92 19:53:06 GMT


bacarlso@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brad Carlson) writes:

>Any bozo who thinks that Tom Glavine is more deserving of the NL Cy Young
>award than Greg Maddux must be smoking crack.  Maddux has an ERA of about 
>2.10 after tonight's complete game shutout of the Dodgers, which is much
>lower than Glavine's.  Additionally, Maddux has more strikeouts, complete
>games, innings pitched, and has given up fewer hits.  And all of this has
>been accomplished in a hitter's ballpark.  With the run support of a team
>such as the Padres or Twins, Maddux could be 26-0, considering that in his
>10 losses, the Cubs have scored only three runs total for him.  Morgan and 
>Maddux together form the best 1-2 punch of any team in baseball. 
>Incidentally, the Cubs have won 11 of their last 14 and IMHO will overtake
>the Expos and Pirates for the NL East crown before season's end.


Well although I agree wholehertedly with you about GMaddux, you should
not discuss smoking crack if you are going to end you post with a more
absurd statement even than 'Glavine desrves the CY'

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Re: Oh Cone-da!
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:08:08 GMT

In article <oebZIiq00WBM03IPwS@andrew.cmu.edu> jm50+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason Piers McDonald) writes:
>On the Cone trade:
>
>    You'd think for that a pitcher of Cone's caliber, the Mets could
>have got something closer to what the Jays were offering California for
>Jim Abbott (OF Derek Bell, C Ed Sprague, P Todd Stottlemyre, and
>low-level minor leaguers). Of course the fact that Cone is done after
>the season does lower his value, but Jeff Kent and a keg of Molson?

1. Labatts owns the Jays, so no Molson to the Mets :-)
2. Cone is a free agent this year.  Abbott is not.  Cone is worth less 
(not worthless) because there is only 5 weeks of service as opposed to 3
years of service for the Jays.

>
>    Besides, I somehow doubt that Cone will re-up with the Jays --
>Canadian teams just don't seem to be all that popular with top-flight
>free agents.

Well the Jays did sign Morris and Winfield this past year.  Also, if Toronto
wins it all, and looks to be in a position to do it again next year, free
agents *are* attracted by this.  I am not sure why Canadian teams are looked
upon so unfavourably...must have to do with the metric system.  :-)

Anand Sinha 
Blue Jays #1 -> all the way in '92 ...re-vitalised.
Robbie Alomar for MVP
Pat..sign Cone now!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: BLOCKBUSTER TRADE!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 20:35:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.184451.4987@island.COM> don@island.COM (Don Hermes) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.052431.16927@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>>I think the trade will cost Oakland in the long run, unless they can sign
>>Sierra.  
>
>I've seen and heard this line of reasoning before. And it doesn't make 
>sense.
>In order for Oakland to have made a 'good' trade they have to sign
>someone who they would have had the same chance to sign had they not
>made the trade.
>Think about it.

YOU think about it.  If Oakland signs him during the off-season without having
traded for him, they have to give up 2 high draft picks.  (Not that Sierra's
worth less than 2 high draft picks)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Subject: Re: Dick Williams as Manager of the Padres?!?!?
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:09:10 GMT

In article <37132@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.223552.27336@u.washington.edu> sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
>
>>Underachieving teams are supposedly the ones that Williams
>>is best for, but he most clearly did not know how to get the most out of
>>the Mariners. I think he got too big for his britches and then became a 
>>quitter when he wasn't successful.  
>
>possibly.
>
>>Not someone I'd want to hire to manage my ballteam.
>
>Billy Martin is working for the Angels now, as is Herzog.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is that some kind of sick joke?  If so, I like it.


>LaRussa and Leyland have jobs...
>I don't really believe Gene Mauch is a good manager...
>
>

c-ya

Sean
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Subject: Re: Cal Ripken Jr.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:15:00 GMT

In article <w1s3PB5w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, danforth.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes...
>Hello all,
> 
>With Cal signing his new/big contract, I was wondering about
>his playing time.  The last time I heard, he was still playing
>every inning/game.  What is the status of this.  If he stopped,
>how long did he go, if he is still going, how many games/innings
>is he at now.

The continuous game streak is still on--assuming he stays healthy (a bigger
if than a lot of O's fan's may think) he'll break Gehrig's record, I believe, 
in June of 1995.  

There's no way Calvin will come out of the starting lineup unless he suffers
a BAD injury.

The consecutive innings streak was broken some time ago (1987-88, I think).
It is believed to be a record, but I don't believe that accurate stats were
kept on innings played by players until recently.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce 'Slower than Sam Horn' Hasch                  hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: raistlin@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (The Joker)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cubs Protected 15?????
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:19:02 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana

Having only been a baseball fan for about 5 years now (just REALLY
starting to get into the game), and being a Cub fan, could someone
tell me if they know who the 15 protected players will be?  I can venture
the following guesses.  Does anyone know more?

Protected (I think)
Mark Grace
Ryne Sandberg 
Shawon Dunston
Doug Dacenzo
Greg Maddux (*IF* he signs and doesn't do that  Free Agent Dance)
Rey Sanchez  (could be a third baseman)
Mike Harkey
Sammy Sosa

anyone else?  I'm at a losss...of course, with the kinds of deals the
Cubs are known for, I don't think I would begin to put money on
any of these guys.

Still a chance in '92,
Mark

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Trade
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:54:30 GMT

In article <9209021621.AA07432@sumac09.cray.com> jjd@TEAK.CRAY.COM (Jeff Drummond) writes:
>
>Twins GM Andy MacPhail had an interesting observation on the Oakland/
>Texas trade.  He said that if the Twins were up by 7.5 games at the
>end of August, he would have disconnected his phone.  Namely, if it
>ain't broke...
>He thinks that the trade will hurt Oakland, at least this year (with
>Canseco and McGuire out of the A's line-up and Sierra out for 10-14
>days).  He could be right.  I can't see how it's going to help them
>in the long term either, unless Oakland plans to sell their team in
>order to sign all their free agents.

The A's made the trade for the playoffs, not the regular season or the
future.

>I don't know what Texas was thinking either.  Witt and Russell may not
>have been great, but I think Texas will be fortunate to replace either.

I think the trade is great for Texas.  They're out of it this year, and
they were going to lose Rusell and Sierra anyways.  So they traded Bobby
Witt and a couple of draft picks for Jose Canseco.

It is also a good trade for Oakland.  This year is their last chance to
do anything, and they strengthened themselves for the postseason.  
--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: O's get Lefferts
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:29:52 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

The Orioles traded a minor league pitcher and somebody else for Craig Lefferts
of the Padre's.  As an AL fan, I don't know much about Lefferts, could
someone give me the nitty gritty on this lefty. His numbers seem to
be average.
   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       Sometimes the truth is hidden,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         Like a shadow in the darkness.
  /     David Taylor Model Basin                  -Master Po
   \___________________________
			     \\
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dick1@hera.uucp (25443-vaughn)
Subject: All Right:  WHO IS JEFF KENT?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:25:54 GMT
Keywords: Flabbergasted Mets' Fans Demand to Know


Well, who is he???


And: is this all that a David Cone gets on the open market?


Mets' fans stunned.


Dick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Reardon to Braves
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.153526.2139@merrimack.edu> desmondw@merrimack.edu writes:
>
>     I suppose you've all heard about Jeff Reardon going to the Braves
>for 2 players to be named later. This deal was terrible for the Sox.
>They probably weren't going to sign Jeff anyway but they don't even
>care who they get obviously. They should have gotten at least one starter.
>And who is gonna take over the duty as the closer? Harris? Yuk! Look for
>the Sox to be in the celler next year too now. You can't win without a
>closer. Also look for Clemens to rack up the complete games. Do you think
>he's ganna trust one of the bums to save his wins? 
>     I think the trade was a desperate attempt by Atlanta to counter Torontos
>big trade. They know they're in for some trouble come World Series baby!

I think this belongs in rec.humor.funny. :-)  Boston was lucky it got
*anything* for Reardon, considering his age and how horrible he has been this
season.
From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Billy Spiers is back?
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:21:08 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Distribution: na
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC

Per this AM's paper, Billy Spiers was activated by the Brewers yesterday.
Has anybody out in America's Dairyland heard anything about how/if he
might be used. I'm assuming, of course, that they'll leave Listach alone
at SS.

Thanks - Bill
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |First things first!     |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 2759           | (But not necessarily in|
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |that order) - The Doctor|
_________________________________________________|________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jimdean@bnr.ca (Jim Dean)
Subject: Expos' Stupid Stats Tricks
Originator: jimdean@bcrks81
Reply-To: jimdean@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:56:58 GMT


Heard on WTBS' broadcast of the Expos-Braves on THURSDAY Sept 3:

"Coming into today's game, the Expos have not lost on a Thursday all
 season, making them 10-0 on that day of the week."

The 'Spos won again so now they're 11-0 on Thursdays. O.K. Skip, tell
me what it means?

I'm not a stat-head, but even *I* recognize that children shouldn't be
allowed to play with stats like these. Meanwhile, a lady in
Dusseldorf, Germany, burns her hand; her twin in Missoula, Montana,
feels a sharp pain in *her* hand. Coincidence? Ask Skip Caray.

-- 
Jim Dean (Internet: jimdean@bnr.ca) +-----+    National Capital Baseball League
mild-mannered computer scientist -->|Phone|--> President. Pitcher. My knuckler?
Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa,Ont. |Booth|    Not too legit to hit!  6-0, 1.99
Phone: (613) 763-2135 Fax: 763-7241 +-----+    Phone: (613) 723-1580
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Little League WS semis
Organization: Clarkson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:01:23 GMT

Since this is rec.sport.BASEBALL, I thought I'd post something on the
LLWS American championship. The team from Long Beach, CAL beat the team
from Hamilton, NJ by a score of 1-0. Certainly a heartbreaking loss for
the Jerseyans as their pitcher had a no-hitter going into the top of the
6th and last inninng but gave up a solo home-run that lost 
the game (the only hit he gave up).

They will play Santo Domingo, Dominincan Republic who beat the
Phillipine team.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			           GO ADIRONDACK RED WINGS
CLARKSON '95			         1992 CALDER CUP CHAMPIONS!!
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU   Calder Cup Champs: 1981 1986 1989 1992
					
rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact

"Hockey must be a great game to survive what the NHL has done to it."
		---Howard Baldwin, Penguins' owner
							

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: king@ssvax.gte.com (Larry King)
Subject: Re: Brave fans
Organization: GTE/SCSD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:31:04 GMT

	In Boston's 10 - 8  win over Seattle on Saturday the Red Sox
fans showed the same type of behavior.  In the seventh, Valentin hit a
grand slam to tie the game.  He came up with the bases loaded in the 8th
and popped out to first.  He was promptly booed.  How can anyone do that
to a guy.  Granted, booing Glavine in Atlanta with the season he has had
is worst but it is the same type of (or lack of) mentality that makes
these people (I won't call them fans) do this. 

--
Larry King
GTE Government Systems, Needham, MA    		(617) 455-3384 
E-Mail : king%ssvax.dnet@get.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: A question on free agency
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:18:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.185654.26176@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>Normally with free agents, their old club has to offer them salary
>arbitration in order (I think) to retain the right to bargain with
>them.
>
>1) If the club fails to offer arbitration, does it still receive the
>draft pick compensation?

No.
>
>2) Under the "repeater rights" clause, the club has to offer
>arbitration within five days of the end of the season.  If they fail
>to do so, the player can become an unrestricted free agent.  Does this
>mean that the original club has to either keep the player or receive
>no compensation?

Yes.  The player doesn't have to accept arbitration, though, if he is
eligible for free agency.  If he doesn't (and turns free agent), the club
does get compensation.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Trade
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:34:01 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <sybesmer.715457267@uther>, sybesmer@uther.calvin.edu (Eric W
Sybesma) writes:
|> Statistically, the Twins are a better
|> team than the A's, except in the W-L column.  

Too bad that's all that matters, eh?

-- 
+========================================================================+
| Rick Casares					Silicon Graphics	 |	
| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com			2011 N. Shoreline Blvd   |
| "Just wait till next year."                 	Mountain View, CA 94039  |
+========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: MLB Magic Numbers for Thu, Aug 27th, 1992
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:25:34 GMT
Organization: Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises; Berkeley, California, USA
Via: JTC Enterprises Major League Baseball Department (Statistics Division)
     JTC Enterprises Sports Sector (Information Department)


        MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR THURSDAY, AUGUST 27, 1992

          [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; i-idle yesterday
                   z-won yesterday or split a doubleheader.]

NATIONAL WEST		 MN	        	NATIONAL EAST		 MN
Atlanta	Braves		 --		        Pittsburgh Pirates	z--
Cincinnati Reds		z35		        Montreal Expos		z34
San Diego Padres	z31		        Chicago Cubs		 28
San Francisco Giants	 21		        St. Louis Cardinals      27
Houston Astros		z20		        New York Mets           z24
Los Angeles Dodgers	 15		        Philadelphia Phillies	 17

AMERICAN WEST		 MN 		        AMERICAN EAST		 MN
Oakland Athletics	 --		        Toronto Blue Jays	z--
Minnesota Twins		z30		        Baltimore Orioles	z34
Chicago White Sox	 29		        Milwaukee Brewers	 32
Texas Rangers		z21		        Cleveland Indians       z24
Kansas City Royals       18		        Detroit Tigers           24
California Angels        17		        New York Yankees        z23
Seattle Mariners	 12		        Boston Red Sox          z22
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises World Headquarters
*****  *****  *****  jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU          jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU
    *    *    *      jhernand@nyx.cs.DU.EDU                    josephhz@IDS.NET
    *    *    *      cb085@cleveland.Freenet.EDU      jph@m-net.ann-arbor.MI.US
*****    *    *****  University of California, Berkeley, California, USA  94720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kwh@stiatl.salestech.com (Kurt Hoyt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Reardon to Braves
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:23:40 GMT
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.

desmondw@merrimack.edu writes:


>     I think the trade was a desperate attempt by Atlanta to counter Torontos
>big trade. They know they're in for some trouble come World Series baby!

No, it was a desparate attempt to shore up a bullpen that was collapsing
fast. The loss of Pena and the subsequent failure of Freeman, Mercker,
Stanton or Wohlers to step forward as the primary closer was a huge confidence
drain to the entire pitching staff and was probably one of the causes of
the Braves most recent slide. The acquisition of Reardon put new life into
the staff (with the possible exception of Freeman), as evidenced by last
night's doubleheader sweep. The 1 Sept roster expansion might also yield
someone who can take Freeman's place and shut the door on the Reds for good.

-- 
---------------------+ 
Kurt in Atlanta      | "This 'Tamper Proof Bag' is being provided to
kwh@salestech.com    |  ensure the integrity of your 'Software'."
...!uupsi!stiatl!kwh |             -- IBM
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Blue Jays' Lineup
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 02:39:09 GMT

A. Colin Morton asked me to run Steve Stein's lineup optimizer with the Blue
Jays lineup, to compare with the Baltimore lineup.  Here it is:

Lee SS
Alomar 2B
Olerud 1B
Winfield DH
Maldonado LF
Carter RF
Borders C
Gruber 3B
White CF

This lineup would ideally score 5.69 runs a game.  Blue Jays actually score
4.75 runs a game.  (Of course, you should knock off some from the ideal figure
since I don't have the GIDP, SH, and SF numbers.)  Consider that Gruber
actually was replaced by Jeff Kent for a significant part of the season, and
that Kent is a better offensive player, Cito Gaston's lineup is probably pretty
faulty as well.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball