From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:14:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: en.1992Apr8.001434.25229
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <3288@daily-planet.concordia.ca> gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.073434.9253@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
>muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>
>>Our first and foremost goal is to see others come to know Christ
>>(Great Commission).
>
>Wrong. Our first and formost goal is to love God and our neighbor.

Granted.  Does this not directly imply reaching them for Christ? 

>>There is also some verse which states that we are to be acceptable
>>members of society so that the gospel will be well received.
>>Regardless of whether or not homosexuality is "right", if it is not
>>accepted by the lost people that the homosexual Christian is trying to
>>reach then it should not be practiced.
>
>Well, there are a lot of people who will not find you as acceptable a
>messager if they think you are completly straight. Are you going to do
>your Christian duty by them and sleep with men?

I think I could be associated with and accepted by them without the sex
act.  In fact I have first hand experience at this.  I cannot think of ANY
instance in which the actual sex act would help advance the gospel.  Notice I
am not against association...  In the world but not of it...

>What is it about this topic which seems to almost compell people to
>say utter nonsense? First Mike Sellar wants me to make some woman
>very, very happy by marrying her, and now this.

This "nonsense" is merely my interpretation of Biblical doctrine.
Paul tells us to flee the flesh and pursue the Spirit, avoiding marriage (not
very popular) unless one would "burn with passion".  If this interpretation
is wrong please tell me.  (I don't want an opinion, but rather something from
God's word).  So what if a homosexual "burns with passion"?  See the
hypothetical situation below.

>>I am heterosexual in urge only - I abstain from all sexual behavior.
>>I know all about overcoming the desires of the flesh and how hard it
>>is.
>
>Well, I know all about it too. And what I discovered is that it is
>*not* the key to living a godly life. In fact, it is a complete wrong
>emphasis to think this. What is important?

Exactly.  If one were to dwell on the things that will please his own
physical nature then they would be a nuisance.  Rather one should focus on
serving God and the lesser things will not even be an issue (below).

>>All I have to say is that their would be no problem if all Christians
>>were intent on seeing the gospel spread instead of bickering about how
>>much immorality they can get away with.
>
>This is important--not saying such things nor thinking such thoughts.
>Do you think you are living an especially godly life if you abstain
>from all sex but look upon others as cesspools of iniquity? Sorry, but
>it doesn't work that way. That is how you become a blind guide, and
>fall into a ditch.

I really don't care how bad I am because I know it has already been
forgiven by the blood of Christ.  I do care about being a light in the world
and living up to my fullest potential, which means focusing on God.  In the
same way I don't care how bad someone else is either - I just try and be
relatable, make a friend, and hopefully the gospel comes up after a
comfortable relationship has been established.  I am the last one to harp on
morality for its own sake, but I also think there are certain things which
keep one from walking in the good works God has set before him, and one of
these is homosexual activity.

>You sound like a person who is serious about the spiritual life--very
>good!  But I am a bit concerned that you are not applying your
>energies in entirely the best direction.

I assure you that posting to this group is only a small portion of my
energies... :-)

In the following I will present what I feel to be an acceptable and
beneficial lifestyle for the heterosexual and the homosexual (assuming that a
choice of sexuality is not involved, which I am not at all convinced of)

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS:

Heterosexual:
   Two individuals, one male and one female, realize that whatever their
   occupation is at the moment their career is reaching people for Christ
   (which implies loving God and others).  They both have good personal
   relationships with God and put Him in complete control of their lives.
   They feel a special attraction towards each other, so they grow to be very
   good friends (no sex) over the _years_.  They realize that the work they
   want to accomplish for God could best be done as a mutually supportive and
   loving team.  After praying extensively about the direction their lives
   are going they get married with God's approval and in fulfillment of the
   Genesis plan for man and woman.  They do not engage in sex that would be
   considered indulgent - just as everything is better in moderation.  They
   thank God for their relationship but compared to serving Him it is an
   insignificant part of their lives.

Homosexual:
   Two individuals, both male or female, realize that whatever their
   occupation is at the moment their career is reaching people for Christ
   (which implies loving God and others).  They both have good personal
   relationships with God and put Him in complete control of their lives.
   They feel a special attraction towards each other, so they grow to be very
   good friends (no sex) over the _years_.  They realize that the work they
   want to accomplish for God could best be done as a mutually supportive and
   loving team.  After praying extensively about the direction their lives
   are going they decide to form a partnership in God's service.  They are a
   great comfort to one another and their love is immense.  Their intimacy is
   such that it needs no crude sexual expression, for they realize this is
   not part of God's plan and they trust that it would not be in their best
   interest.  This matters very little to them though because even though
   their love for each other is great, their love for God is much greater,
   and they delight in serving Him more than in anything else.


I hope I made my point...  I realize that sex can be a very fulfilling
experience for two people, but homosexual activity was obviously NOT intended
for anyone (can be the cause of various physical difficulties and has no
natural function).  Note that I specify the sex act only.  In my homosexual
scenerio above the two people would not even be considered homosexual, but
rather good friends.  This is what I think was intended and part of their
calling as persons who are not attracted to the opposite sex.

--
John Muehlhausen (muehlhau@ecn.purdue.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc