HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Miracles
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:18:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: hilbert.1992Dec12.181828.14637
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon

In article <1992Dec8.215823.1465@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
>In article <1992Dec7.205604.2992@rosevax.rosemount.com>, grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
>|> 
>|> I've got no quarrel with a great portion of the values espoused by my
>|> judeo-christian upbringing.  If I might attempt to quote Rabbi Hilleil
>|> (sp?) from a passage in the Talmud: 
>|> 
>|>    That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor.  That is
>|>    the entirety of the law.  The rest is commentary.
>|> 
>|> A fine philosophy, regardless of whether one beleives in the god of
>|> Abraham.
>|> 
>
>A bunch of us doing some "quality" work for our organization came up with
>the variation
>
>That which is hateful to your neighbor, do not do to your neighbor.

In other words, "Do unto your neighbor as you would have your neighbor
do unto you, [if you were in your neighbors shoes]". Her shoes including,
of course, her dislikes.

I think what you have is an extension of the golden rule, adjusted
for invariance across viewpoints.

	Max G. Webb
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.messianic
From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren)
Subject: Re: What did Judas betray?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:50:15 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1gob0eINNik@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>Before the Bible-thumpers respond, repeat their mantra after me (preferably
>with as much whining as possible):
...
>definitely from Christian to Christian.  These jackasses could've given Reagan
>lessons in slipperiness.

Bless you, Carl.  (ref. Luke 6:28)
-- 
            _.
--Steve   ._||__    Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer
  Warren   v\ *|    -----------------------------------------------
             V
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: disappointed
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:12:20 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Dec9.4286.31184@dosgate>, "dan mckinnon" <dan.mckinnon@canrem.com> writes:
=    I see several causes for concern here:
=
=    1) An apparent lack of critical reading and comprehension.
=
=    2) An attitude of "If you say it or quote it, you must believe  it
=yolurself."
=
=    3) Poor use of an offline mail reader that prefaces quoted replies
=with " On XXX, yyy said: "    and then quoting something that yyy did
=not, in fact say, but was  only passing on or quoting himself. You have
=an obligation to use such mail readers properly, personally I have seen
=much mis-use of them. One guy had his set to say "On xxx, yyy was heard
=to mutter strangely", which I found offensive and judgemental, because a
=serious subject was involved.
=
=    4) Selective reading, where phrases that are red flags to the
=individuals concerned  leap out and overwhelm their rational thinking.
=They are so looking forward to vlasting someone that they lose track of
=who that is.

You forgot 
     5)  Readers of sci.skeptic frequently deal with people who make rather
	 remarkable claims, then some time later assert that they never made
	 the claim in question, despite having argued the claim sometimes for
	 several weeks.  One of their favorite strategies for achieving
	 plausible deniability is to start the thread with "I just happened to
	 pick up this article from somewhere else...."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban,alt.atheism,alt.feminism
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Ritual Abuse Taskforce Alleges Poisoning
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:11:43 GMT

People like that *almost* make me wish someone _would_ poison them.  Properly.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Biblical Inerrancy?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:36:51 GMT

In article <724726341.AA02459@csource.oz.au> joe@csource.oz.au (Joe Slater) writes:
>jds> Obviously the Divine Language is Hebrew. This can be easily
>
> Next: Did Adam have a navel?

NO! And anyone who suggests otherwise is a Damnable evolutionist!
And pictures depicting Adam with a navel must be banned as harmful
to the Christian faith!

This vital theological issue is discussed at great length by
Bergen Evans in his "The Natural History of Nonsense" (Vintage
Books, 1958), chapter 1.


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: gallas2@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Sean Michael Gallagher)
Subject: Re: Uri's Magic
Reply-To: gallas2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:10:05 GMT

In article <3062@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
|>     "They invited me to come quickly to NASA's control center.  They have
|>     a problem with the space probe Galileo, which was sent to Jupiter.  It
|>     cost the a lot of money, has already traveled millions of kilometers,
|>     but its antenna has not opened.  They called me, and I will try to
|>     help them.  I will stand in the control center, I will concentrate,
|>     and by means of my mental power, I will try to open the antenna.
|> 
|>     "The Americans have a practical approach.  They have already tried
|>     everything else and failed.  So one of the senators connected to the
|>     space project has now turned to me..  What do they have to lose?  If I
|>     succeed, I will save a mission worth billions.  If I fail - nothing
|>     has been lost.  How much would they have invested?  In all, an airline
|>     ticket, a few days in a hotel, and some money for my time."
|> -- 

I really hope this isn't true.  I have never been one to underestimate the
stupidity of a Congresscritter, but this is too much.  If one of the senators
on the Senate S&T Committee believes in Uri Geller, I can understand why NASA
has so much trouble...How can you expect to ask for more funding for your 
research when the Congresscritter thinks you can just call in a "psychic" to
solve the problem for you.  Can anybody flatly deny this article and save my
faith in my country?
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Uri's Magic
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:04:22 GMT

In <gdavis.723949216@griffin> gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:

> If Uri Geller is the psychic he professes,why doesn't NASA hire him
>immediately to unstick Galleo's main antenna before it gets out of
>range?

I translated (from Hebrew to English) parts of an article last October
and posted it here.  It appeared on p. 14 of Yediot Achronot of Oct
11, 1991.  Here's what he was quoted as saying about Galileo:

    "They invited me to come quickly to NASA's control center.  They have
    a problem with the space probe Galileo, which was sent to Jupiter.  It
    cost the a lot of money, has already traveled millions of kilometers,
    but its antenna has not opened.  They called me, and I will try to
    help them.  I will stand in the control center, I will concentrate,
    and by means of my mental power, I will try to open the antenna.

    "The Americans have a practical approach.  They have already tried
    everything else and failed.  So one of the senators connected to the
    space project has now turned to me..  What do they have to lose?  If I
    succeed, I will save a mission worth billions.  If I fail - nothing
    has been lost.  How much would they have invested?  In all, an airline
    ticket, a few days in a hotel, and some money for my time."
-- 
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     I feel partially hydrogenated!
 |warren@      
/ nysernet.org 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN)
Subject: Re: Meteors hit the earth? was (Re: AIDS and all that jazz)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU
Distribution:  world
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.034134.12874@netcom.com>, 
payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...

>In article <Bz3tI4.ILJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> 
>battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:

>>In article <1992Dec7.144114.25539@netcom.com>, 
>>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes...
>>
>>>In article <Byvn1G.3qu@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> 
>>>battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>>

[silly debate about meteors deleted..]

>This is getting silly, you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding 
>something very simple. 

No. Actually, I was just sarcastically*  disagreeing with _your_ deliberate
misunderstanding of the original poster's point, with your silly nit-picking
about whether he used the exact, correct, perfect analogy.

I refer you to the original post that I responded to, in case you've forgotten.

The _vast_ majority of meteors/meteorites which "impact" the Earth are
microscopic, and as others have pointed out, don't "vaporize" (as you would
undoubtedly prefer), so they remain meteors/meteorites all the way down.

The only thing silly here is your attempt to obfuscate the issue with
arguments from definitions.

Gene

*I _did_ use a smilely, which is common usenet usage to indicate humor and
sarcasm, but you seemed more interested in getting in the last word than
whether the discussion was getting silly or not...kind of strange that you
would now suddenly decide that it _is_ silly after all.  Glad to see we
finally agree on something!
However, I am perfectly happy to let you have the last word, since it seems 
to be important.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban,alt.atheism,alt.feminism
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: Hypnosis and Repression (was Ritual Abuse Taskforce....)
Followup-To: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban,alt.atheism
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:56:31 GMT


[A billion lines, more or less, of hypnosis discussion deleted.]

Y'all think you can cut down the cross-posting and keep this out 
of alt.feminism?  Thanks.

rini
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Crucifixion of Jesus?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:53:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.211744.1@stsci.edu> zellner@stsci.edu writes:
>  >  The strongest argument for crucifixion is "multiple attestation" -- all 
>  >  4 gospels (or 3.5 if you doubt the Markan addendum) describe it ...

Of course, the accounts in Matthew and Luke are derived from Mark, so
you *really* only have two....

>
>St. Paul also refers to Jesus's death on a cross, in his letters to the 
>Galatians and Corinthians.  Of course Paul wasn't an eyewitness, but he 
>mentioned in Corinthians that many eyewitnesses were still alive, and his
>information had to come very early.

Yes, but in 1 Thessalonians - argued by many scholars to be the oldest book
in the NT (although probably only 1 - 2 years before Galatians), Paul not only
fails to mention the cross, but more significantly, says that THE JEWS, not
the Romans, executed Jesus.

>
>Plus, we know that crucifixion was widely used by the Romans for executions 
>of bad characters of which they wanted to make particular examples - pirates,
>bandits, and insurrectionaries.  Remember Jesus took the place of the bandit
>Barabbas.

Allegedly. This "custom" of letting one victim off scott-free is unknown
outside the Gospels. Hmmmmm.

>
>Someone once told me that the Greek word translated "cross" (stauros) doesn't 
>necessarily refer to a structure with a cross-piece, but simply a "stake" or
>"pole".  I don't suppose the executioners were picky.  In Galatians Paul also
>referred to Jesus' "death on a tree" (xylon).  It could have been literally a
>section of tree-trunk. 

  But the obvious allusion to the "curse" of Deut. 21:22-23 implies a
  Rabbinical-style hanging. And the Deut. commandment that the body be
  taken down by nightfall would not apply to a Roman execution, only
  to a Jewish one.

>
>Along those lines:  I have always wondered exactly what "hanging" meant in 
>the book of Esther, when Haman and his ten sons were hanged on a "gibbet" 
>or "gallows" 50 cubits high.  References I have seen said that it was not at 
>all the same thing as the Anglo-Saxon hanging by the neck on the end of a 
>rope, but the articles were too delicate to be more specific.  Any information? 
The method of execution was stoning, the purpose of the hanging was
to serve as a warning to others. According to The Jewish ENcyclopedia,
they would be hanged by ropes tied to their arms, not their neck.
The rope would be tied across both hands at the wrists.

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
From: freeman_l@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Medjugorje
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:04:51 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


According to all the newsletters and leaflets I've been receiving
from the MEDJUGORGE CENTRE for PEACE
         91 Auburn Road, Auburn, Victoria, 3123, Australia,
apparently the conflict in Bosnia - Herzogovina has largely 
by-passed the village.
There is the report of a pilot who was ordered to bomb the village
but for some reason was unable to.
Pilgrimages are still being organized to the region, apparently,
you can still get there in relative safety.

Leo Freeman
Dept. of Physics
University of Central Queensland
Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia.
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: homeopaty... NBC's dateline
Date: 21 Dec 1992 00:38:00 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1641@tdat.teradata.COM>, swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
=In article <1992Dec15.053457.14466@udel.edu>, mccoy@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Don McCoy) writes:
=|> 
=|> Now, with regard to remedies that are on the order of a few percent
=|> strength, there *may* be an effect such as you are describing.  If you
=|> want to call this homeopathic, that's fine, but you'll have to distin-
=|> guish between the ~8% concentration remedies and the 0% ones in order
=|> to have any argument at all.  
=
=Though in the particular case of Arnica as a pain reliever, I seriously doubt it.
=Given the nature of the symptoms it treats, I suspect a natural analgesic, or
=perhaps a natural anesthetic.

Possibly an irritant as well, like methyl salicilate, which causes the blood
flow to the affected area to increase.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: wsadjw@rw6.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Ball lightning? (is there such a thing?)
Date: 19 Dec 92 12:04:07 GMT
Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

In article <1992Dec17.184414.25344@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> pepke@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>I have seen speculation that "ball lightning" is made of little balls of 
>plasma that bounce around until they run out of heat.  It seems plausible. 

No.  The color in the descriptions of ball lightning doesn't fit the
plasma theory.  A plasma should be really HOT. 
Also, a blob of hot gas would rise, and it has struck me that most descriptions
of ball lightning indicate that the thing (?) must be heavier than air. It 
either floats or it comes down, or it moves erratically across the ground.

What even more worrying, most reports of ball lightning are "stale". 
Usually socalled fireballs (meteors) are reported very soon after they
have been seen, but many ball lightning stories are reports of what people
saw a long time ago.

JWN
From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: RESENDING: Recent stuff...
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:47:58 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

James Randi <geller-hotline@ssr.com> writes:

>I'm told that UG did not show up for a scheduled deposition in Miami last
>week for the Prometheus case, the reason given being that his lawyers were
>suddenly too busy with another important case of theirs.  The notice was
>delivered 24 hours before the arranged hour, by fax.

It is hardly surprising that the psychic huckster Geller chose not
to show up for the deposition---his paranormal posturing and extravagant
claims are nothing more than a hatful of wind, and he knows it.

>I just returned from Russia, where I was filming tests of "psychics."  I
>have to report that the "psychics" there are no more "psychic" than those
>here, and the parapsychologists are just as naive as you might suspect. 
>"Biogravity" is the big discovery for them.  It takes place when spoons
>stick to their faces.  I kid you not.  Real scientists are agog over this
>wonder.  Spoons seem to figure very largely in parapsychology, don't they?

If this (ha-ha) "biogravity" nonsense works the way I suspect it does,
then I'd say that nose goblins figure very largely in parapsychology
too.

As spoon adhesive for the gullible.

Give 'em hell, James!

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha

>On Thanksgiving Day (Nov. 26, for our overseas friends) I'll be seen on
>the Larry King Live show.  Do tune in.
>							JR

>-- 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Hollow Earth
From: Richard_Plinston@kcbbs.gen.nz (Richard Plinston)
Date: 19 Dec 92 03:14:38 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

    >>> from the early 60s.  unlikely that he'd try to explain
    >>> satellite photos

    On the contrary the author used satellite photos to help
    'prove' that the Earth was hollow.  He printed two 'photos'
    showing the North Polar region, one had a large white area
    which was claimed to be cloud covering the hole at the North
    Pole, the second had a large black circular area which was
    claimed as the hole after the clouds dispersed.

    There were genuine NASA issue 'photographs'.  A cretin may have
    been fooled by the interpretation that the author placed on them.
    A slight amount of knowledge would have made one look for the
    'night side' of the Earth - there wasn't one, the illumination
    was constant all the way round.  These 'photos' were made
    of strips taken by satellite at midday as the Earth rotated.
    The white was undoubtedly cloud cover over snow, the black
    circular 'hole' was where the sun never rose at some later time
    of year.

    As another inconsitency the Aurora were claimed to be caused
    by light spilling out of the holes at the poles.  If this were
    the case then why is it claimed that the hole was the 'black
    bit'.  It should be bright if it could cause the Aurora.

    Just another book for the Science Fiction section.
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: lost skills of the ancients (was pyramids)
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:51:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.Bz4A67.E71.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
>Perhaps only slightly less mundane, but we can't reproduce the violin-making
>process of Amati, Stradivari, and Guarneri, only a couple of hundred years
>ago, which they used to create instruments superior to anything made today.

I've heard claims that the classic violins have improved with age,
and even a claim that the improvement was due to being played well.
Obviously, modern replicas would have trouble on this point.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science