HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Gayspace
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:28:54 GMT
Distribution: usa

eleanor.j.gallagher writes
> In article <l76kmjINN2gt@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)  
writes:
> > In article <2A733D51.5586@noiro.acs.uci.edu> 
> > cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman) blathers about
> > something that I decided to delete.
> > 
> > Drop dead, asshole.
> 
>             I could not have said it better myself Arne!!!!!!!

I believe you. Quite probably you really couldn't have said anything better  
yourself. The option to view this as a compliment is certainly open to you.

As for myself, over many years on the net and quite literarily thousands of  
articles I've never criticised or attacked homosexuality or homosexuals for  
their preference, but have instead argued for tolerance and openess whenever I  
had the opportunity. I will continue to do so and at this confine myself to the  
quite clear observation that the homosexual community like all other  
communities has its share of dregs.

	Carl Edman
From: eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com (Eric Hunt) 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: I HAVE THREADING
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:37:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com (Eric Hunt) 

MB> I am so pleased with this new reader.  It threads.
MB>
MB> And it has a filter file.
MB>
MB> Joy.  Bliss.  I can tackle soc.motss again.

Hi, Mike! What reader are you talking about?

Do you read soc.motss through Waffle directly, or via QWKs?
--
Eric Hunt                     | bsc835!ehunt@uunet.uu.net (preferred)
User, The Matrix BBS          | eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com
Birmingham, AL (205)323-2016  |          ^----nothing longer than 100 lines
From: George.Hunt@f14.n280.z1.fidonet.org (George Hunt)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: WHERE ARE YOU?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:57:00 GMT

H{EY RICHIE,  HAVEN'T HEARD BACK FROM YOU!  WONDERING IF YOU EVEN
 GOT MY MESSAGE.  I WILL ASSUME IF I DON'T HHERE BACK FROM THIS
 MESSAGE THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO PURSUETHIS B{BSx@{ RELATIONSHIP,  HAVE
 A GOOD ONE

 * Origin: Gays 'R Us * GCOMM (816) 229-3549 (1:280/14)
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:21:39 EDT

In response to a couple of people:

In article <l6u85lINNe31@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> If you don't get how to read prose critically, say,
> or think an argument through to its conclusion, then you 
> should be in a trade school.

Exactly--but I was responding in part to some who disparaged those who 
chose to go to schools with fewer Gen Ed requirements.

> In article <1992Jul23.191500.12036@spdcc.com> Allan Bloom writes:
>>  ...   But it is the
>> responsibility for a liberal arts college to exert an influence on
>> its students to make good choices, at least subtly.
> 
> When I was in college, the scientists and engineers had to take 
> about as many courses in the humanities as I had to take in the 
> sciences.  (And I do hope you don't count English Comp as a 
> *humanities* course.)  I have heard comments about this extra burden
> on engineering and science students more than a few times around here, 
> but it doesn't really hold up to any kind of scrutiny.  

For me, taking classes outside my concentration was a pleasure, not a 
burden.  And I confess that the Gen Ed requirements encouraged me to take 
more soc sci classes than I might have otherwise, which is something I 
don't regret at all.  Though the broadening of my horizons was probably 
at least as much encouraged by the political arguments I was always having 
with my radical roommate.  And that was as much a part of my education as 
anything else.  But I liked the Gen Ed system.

The thing is that the Core curriculum actually would have _narrowed_ the 
range of subjects that I took.  Under the old Gen Ed system, I was able to 
take classes from any departments, such as Music, Philosophy, Economics, to 
name a few, in addition to the Gen Ed classes.  Under the Core curriculum, 
these classes would _not_ have counted towards distribution, and I might not 
have had the opportunity to take them.  The Core is geared towards the lowest 
common denominator, towards forcing a minimum amount of breadth on those who 
wouldn't be interested in a wide variety of topics otherwise.  Those people 
shouldn't be in liberal arts schools to begin with.
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fashion Plate
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:06:10 GMT

joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>In article <asuccop.712002112@milton> asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop) writes:
>>	xaviera hollender calls your house?
>As FJ!

Oh, how he gets on my nerves....I love him, I really do, there's
nothing like shopping for harnesses with him, but it is just that
incessant namesdropping of his...ah.

						FJ!! ( :), Jojo. )
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Gay martial artists (was Re: aikido!)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:14:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.015210.22308@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> > There did seem to be an awful lot of that going on.
> 
>   Color me clueless (or married), but I didn't see much going
> on -- well maybe I did see grandmama being a bit naughty :-)

"Married" didn't stop some of us, love. You just have to pay more
attention. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:05:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.174537.25142@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.155006.27282@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>
>>While I would definitely prefer to see more lesbian mothers than bigot
>>mothers, I'd rather see less mothers all around.
>
>"Fewer" mothers and fathers.  "Less" mothering and fathering. :-)

I suspect that neither of you cares one way or the
other about the number of mothers or fathers, but would like
to see a higher proportion of them attain that office
through adopting parentless children, of which there is,
contrary to popular opinion, no shortage.

I have seen more motssers than just you two suggesting that giving birth
makes you a parent or that adopting doesn't. I doubt you
really believe that; I guess I'm just calling you on the
language issue.

Kate
avoiding the *other* language issue in this thread, deliberately.
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Spanish spelling
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 22:32:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul20.140019.26509@macc.wisc.edu> <62498@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Jul21.034552.4117@macc.wisc.edu>

>In article <62498@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com
>(Frank - Swilling) writes:
>
>>My CDs might be smaller than your records, but they're harder and
>>they last just about forever.
>
>The 9,000 figure includes 600 CDs.
>
>Jess Anderson

I should have known that a man of your vast experience would have all
the bases covered.  With all those *BIG* *HARD* *VINYL* and *PLASTIC*
toys, you must be groovin' night and day.

Say, isn't that Tipper Gore headed your way with Granny K?

Frank Swilling
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: High School G/L Outreach Program
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:06:12 GMT

If anyone in interested, there is an excellent program being
run by Dr. Virginia Uribe for the LA School System which helps
students, teachers, couselors, and administrators provide the
needed support and positive outlook for g/l youth.  In fact,
the National Education Association has presented Dr. Uribe
with an outstanding achievement award for her tireless work in
LA as well as around the country as a speaker and counsultant.

The Friends of Project 10, Inc. is a non-profit corporation
recognized by the IRS (# 95-4080446) and is reachable through
the United Way or direct.  They are constantly in need of
office supplies, office serives, blank tapes, etc. in addition
to monetary donations. The address is: 
  
  Friends of Project 10 -- Virginia Uribe
  Fairfax High School
  7850 Melrose Avenue
  Los Angeles, CA  90046

  (818) 441-3382

The Friends of Project 10 also has available "The Project 10
Handbook" ($18) which details tips for teachers, students, and
couselors in dealing with g/l youth... this is the perfect
"gift" for your local school system.  Other items are a video
entitled "Who's afraid of Project 10" ($18), Tshirts (M,L,XL
$13), and the 1989 HHS Report of Teen Suicide ($13).

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
From: jleduc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (JonPaul Leduc)
Subject: Reply to Nelson
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:46:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.070446.5973@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>I wish that all straight folks would be as truly accepting of my
>sexuality as some are, but I have no illusions about it happening
>tomorrow. In the meantime, I will take care of myself.
>-- 
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/              Death needs time for what it kills to grow in

	I think it would help if you look at the issue in a different
light.  If we don't classify people, the it becomes harder to stereotype.
I think when you look at a persons behavior, their prefs are irrelevant.  I
know too many gays who can't accept Bi's and Hetero's that are hipocritical
on their own views.

	It is society (ie US) overall that is the problem, and if we can't
help but stereotype and group people, than deserve no better than the
"oposition". 
 
(Whoops, I was only ready this group for the stories. Well I can make an
acception)

--Jean-Paul Leduc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Hippie Dick
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:03:57 GMT

In article <63028@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>_Hippie Dick_ is even worse.  Not enough "Hippie" or "Dick" for my taste.
>[ SOUND OF AN *ENORMOUS* RAZZBERRY GOING OFF IN STEVE'S FACE ]
>So much for YOU.  As it happened, the twisted furball behind
>_Hippie Dick_ happened to be in Portland the weekend of
>Motss.con, but I'm now rather glad I didn't introduce you.

Why?  I think it has a lot of potential, and I'd have let him known
that.  I've bought all of this issues, because it's got something that
hasn't been available elsewhere.  Keerist, I've been slumming around
my local gay bookstore regularly asking when the next _HD_ comes out.
But it's not hot enough; not enough sex.  Too self-conscious and self-
indulgent, IMHO.  I could live with that that if it offered more in
return.  You can't even masturbate to it. :-)

>I don't even think it's possible to put _HD_ in any sort of
>category other than "'zine."  'Zines tend to be something of
>a stream of consciousness from the perpetrator (in this case,
>one Gene Barnes), whereas something like _RFD_ is more 
>structured and actually has a stated purpose.

OK, if you say so. :-)

>Of course, the fact that I know Gene may have something to do
>with my appreciation for _HD_; the way he beseeched me for
>a story to print in an upcoming issue might have something
>to do with it as well.  ;-)

You're too straight for that 'zine, George.  Your problem (see below)
is that you tried LDS instead of LSD. :-)

>In any case, if you are lucky enough to see a copy of _Hippie
>Dick_ on your local newsstand, don't let Steve's maladaptive
>response to it dissuade you in the slightest.

Good Lord, buy it.  Shirley you're not saying that it has either
enough "hippie" or enough "dick"?  It could use about 200% more
of each.  "_HD_, the video" has been released; it will get a
review in the BML once I receive it.

>(Perhaps Steve just did too much LDS in the '60s. ;-)

You're talking to someone who knows the difference. :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:28:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.142814.25585@menudo.uh.edu> elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.074541.7622@news.Hawaii.Edu>, johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>>>>>Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
>>>>>homosocial (if you will)? 
>>
>>Me too.
[...]
>>I also know others (hi, Ken, I know you're reading this).
>
>>--John, formerly johnf@ssl.berkeley.edu
>
>Tsk, tsk, tsk.....
>Yes, I just read this.  Just got back to U.S. last night.
>
>Now, what gave me away that I am primarily homosocial, huh?  8-)
>
>Oh.... was there another Ken that you were refering?  If that's the case,
>then *oops* excuse me.

Yes, there was another, who is making a fool of me by not reading
this thread after all.  Just another fickle bisexual...

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           ||"Don't worry, honey, 
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| our skirts are clean."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32459 talk.politics.misc:35827 alt.individualism:4556 alt.activism:13443
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:36:23 GMT
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <1992Jul24.171336.24814@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.234223.26537@pony.Ingres.COM> rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:
>
>>It is the attempts to pile a thousand years of inequality upon the shoulders
>>of those white hetero males who are alive today that is a pile of dung.
>
>No one is attempting to pile a thousand years of inequality upon the
>shoulders of these people.
>
>They are attempting to pile the inequality that exists here and now
>upon their shoulders.

Typical racism.  It really doesn't matter if they have anything to do with
it, it is just a convenient place to heap your garbage.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr)
Subject: Re: Clinton in Seattle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 11:57:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Jul26.231006.29685@u.washington.edu> tardis@u.washington.edu writes:
> JEAN EMERSON: "We'd like to welcome back our viewers and our
> listeners all over the Nortwest to KOMO television here in 
> Seattle, KATU television in Portland and KOMO Radio AM-1000. 
> And welcome back to our studio audiences in Portland and 
> Seattle.

I assume from this that Jeannie jumped ship.  Speaking as one who
was around the KING newsroom enough to see her mammoth collection
of tartan slacks, I always wondered if she was some sort of celtic
Alice B. Toklas.

This will only mean something to folks from the Land o' the Space Penis.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss,soc.rights.human
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: sex with gay and bi men (part 3)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:03:37 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar, one of Portland's finest) writes:

>Most of my notions about gender roles ("real man", "nurturing woman",
>"thoughtful", "caring") are based on years of heterosexual
>brainwashing. And I know that much of straight training about gender
>and sexuality is not useful - in fact, some of it is downright evil.

Such a *hesitant* child! I tend to disregard heterosocietal brainwashing
out of hand (jesus, do I sound weighty alla sudden or what?).

>Isn't it better to completely ignore terms like "masculine" and
>"feminine" for purposes of useful description?

I've been thinking about that. Whenever it occurs to me to try to say
if someone I like is masc or femme, I often can't decide. I'm most
attracted to people who just don't care (BTW, yet another kinda-exclu-
sionary con-attendee aside: Am I masc or femme? Both? Neither? I wonder
about that sometimes...).

>The only meanings they
>have are those that heterosexual society has created, and those
>meanings are oppressive. Why continue to use them?

No reason at all. We only do because hetsociety says they matter.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
From: Lomker@tdkt.kksys.com (Michael Lomker)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay Youth
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:52:52 -0600

-> We have a gay group on the campus here and while there are a
-> good number of women involved, there are only one or two gay
-> men involved.  And posters for the group rarely last more than
-> an hour or so - all the usual.  I can only imagine what it must
-> be like for gay kids in the local high school.

    Life is always difficult in the rural areas.
    I live in Roberts, WI, and I am forced to drive 40 miles one-way
every week just to attend a gay youth group.  Some of the other club
members can't believe that I do that, but living all alone in a rural
area can be awful lonely.  I really enjoy my Thursday nights in the "big
city" .... even if I don't fit in terribly well .... everything
seems to be so different there.  |-)


 * Origin: Lomker@tdkt.kksys.com  or  FidoNet (1:282/4011)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: motss.com
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:02:49 GMT

[]
I had considered going, but decided not to because

1)  I'm *buried* in work right now

2)  I'm really busy outside of work, too

3)  I'm uncomfortable in groups

4)  Few women would be there
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Lost Language of Cranes question
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 12:57:45 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>There's one niggling little thing that's getting to me, though. What
>>do the various language vignettes have to do with the story of the
>>family?

while i agree completely with jojo on Leavitt, the whole point
was the breakdown in communication between the members of the
family, hence "The Lost Language."  [the crane child seemed like
such an awkward metaphor; he should have stopped here. :-]

you'll remember that a focal point in the movie, loaded with
incredible tension, is the scene where Philip comes out to his
family.  his mother's response was something along the lines,
"there are some things that are supposed to be kept secret."
in other words, there are some things that are not supposed to
be communicated, like her husband's homosexuality which caused
her to seek sexual fulfillment outside of the marriage, like
where her husband has been going on Sunday afternoons for the
past million years, like ...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:01:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.214009.27549@tc.cornell.edu> shore@tc.cornell.edu writes:
>> A new issue is being worked on by a group of Chicago Faeries. (No, I'm
>> not one of them, I just ummm know a few of them.)
>
>I thought RFD was for rural gay men?

It's for rural gay male wanna-bes, too.

Mostly rural gay male wanna-bes who never got the excitement of
putting together an "experimental" high school magazine out of
their systems when they were in high school.

_Hippie Dick_ is even worse.  Not enough "Hippie" or "Dick"
for my taste.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mjg@eng.cam.ac.uk (Michael Gray)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: An Englishman Abroad -- please help
Summary: English grad student visiting US seeks accommodation
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:26:49 GMT
Organization: cam.eng

I am posting on behalf of a very good friend of mine who does not have
USENET access.

Alan Stacey is visiting North America from the beginning of September,
and is hoping to get some assistance with his trip from soc.motss.

He is a 24 year old grad student studying for a Ph.D. in Pure Maths
here at Cambridge, and is a good-looking 6'4" tall bon-viveur and
gentleman!  He is a regular poster and social participant on the
uk-motss mailing list.

Alan's plans are not yet finalized but he will probably spend about
five days in each of New York, Montreal, Chicago, San Francisco and
Los Angeles, in that order.  He would appreciate any offers of
contacts to show him around or to give him advice and info for all
these cities.

He would also value any offers of possible accommodation in New York,
Chicago and San Francisco and assures me that he is house trained and
will try not to get in the way of busy hosts too much!

Please reply directly to Alan by e-mail if you can, although I will
pass on any replies that reach me:

Alan Stacey,  AMS14@phx.cam.ac.uk

Many thanks
Michael
mjg@eng.cam.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: n2473@cray.com (Robert Bernard)
Subject: Re: Vatican equates homosexuality with mental illness
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 23 Jul 92 07:57:50 CDT

In article <73D6NB4w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul17.121246.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> remcke01@ulkyvx.louisvi
>> >It seems that the Roman church now sees homosexuality not
>> >only as a sin, but a MENTAL ILLNESS
>> 
>> No, not a MENTAL ILLNESS, but an "objective disorder".
>> Get it straight!  The difference should be obvious to
>> anyone!
>> 
>THIS from a group that (the last I heard) had 1 Billion dollars set aside to
>handle all its sexual abuse cases....sheesh-
>now when I meet someone who is Catholic I just assume that either they WERE
>abused as a child or ARE a child abuser...

Some think that the letter was written in the United States in response to
domestic partner legislation, and sent to Rome for distribution.  (It was 
not signed by the Poop.) As such it's not a teaching document, but a 
political one.  Accordingly, it is opposed in this country, most 
notably by Rembert Weakland, Archbishop of Milwaukee -- one of the finest 
Christian minds in the entire Church.  

Considering the blizzard of pedophilia litigation against the Church, this 
letter is a sleight-of-hand.  It's trying to trick us to "look over there" 
at the queers so that the clerics can quick wipe up the spuzz they've 
been squirting all over the sacristy for so long.

The magesterium has lost its moral authority on sexual matters.  Period.
It used to be that when they barked zippers zipped and belts buckled, or
so they thought.  Now they don't get even a muttering of acquiescence.  We
instead see through their puritainism to the sexual pathology that it 
too often protects. 

So, they preach to the choir.  But even the choir luxuriates in long, 
soft robes.

BB