From: ftoppin@eis.calstate.edu (Frank Topping)
Newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher,misc.education
Subject: Is K12Net a faulty product?
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:19:17 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

(posted openly because of current messages in "senior.chat" that are
attributable to adults - of sexual connotation.  ...what is it going to
actually look like when kids are approached sexually in the conferences 
by adults?  ....rather like that, I'd expect.  ..._exactly_ like that!)

...an open response to Helen Stermheim on issues of networking safety.

Helen - Jack Crawford and the K12Net Council are the ones obstructing
open and honest discussion of the dangers involved in networking via
K12Net, (sm),(tm) Jack Crawford, Stanley, N.Y.
 
As long as this obstruction continues you can DAMNED WELL expect I'll be
opposing the forcing of K12Net into California unchallenged.
 
....obstruction such as you've consistantly engaged in is usually
reserved for use by large corporations when they have "faulty products".
 
....anything you don't want new users to know Helen?  ...Jack?

I had a child from Sacramento post to this echo once about a problem with
guns he new of coming to his school.  ....you _personally_ told him to get
out of the Teacher's Chat area.   ...didn't refer him back to local
responsible parties,  ....didn't offer any advice,  ....threw him out!
 
Lady - when I see some responsible professional judgement emanate from
this network I'll back off.  ...and that damned well means from you too.
 
Those postings came from your own conferences that you weren't watching
_AT ALL_ until I got "in your face" about it.  ...now all you're doing is:
"after the fact" & "CYA".  ....as soon as "the heat's off" there is nothing
preventing the conferences from going back to the same damned miserable shape.

You're putting kids in danger of being hurt and killed the way you've
insisted on structuring (and in trying covering _that_ up).
 
Until Jack Crawford has the courage to open honest discussion of the
dangers I could care less how uncomfortable it gets;  ...for me, for you,
for the full council.   ...you aren't forcing this network into California
without that;  ...simply: "open and honest discussion".
 
You've got an adult in the senior.chat area _NOW_ "leading in" to the kids
with jokes of sexual connotation.  ...what's it going to look like when
the kids start being approached by adults meaning them harm?  ....rather
like that I'd expect.  ...exactly like that, as a matter of fact! 
 
Responsible discussion is a simple thing to ask for.
 
Responsible discussion would be a simple thing to grant.

You're objecting to the consequences of your own cowardly actions.
 

...just why _is_ it that you object to teachers knowing what the real
danger they're facing is - then they could deal with it.
...something about being a "networking biggie" gone to your head?

...you're the one that joined the group that was actually caught lying to
everyone alse about the existance of the k12.admin hidden conference.
You sure changed your tune once you got "on the inside".  I can still
remember Mort's own expression of surprise when _he_ found out there was
a "hidden conference" (that the "council" was denying the existance of).

What do you teach _your_ kids that is?  ...whether in corporate boardrooms
- or on the street corner - it's called LYING.  ...blue collar or white
collar, the people engaging in it are called LIARS!   ...ok, so you're
"walking with liars".  If it wasn't for Gordon B. forwarding me the
captures of the entire conference we'd all still be in the dark, right?

So, just because you and I have different standards, does that mean we
have to roll over out here and take what those of "lesser standards" are
going to try to covertly "shove down our kids throats"?

...not without a fight, lady.  ...I've given Honig's office a solemn
promise of "pickets, placards, posters and press" on the front lawn of 
CDE headquarters if they don't show some of the responsibility you've
obviously turned your back on.  ...I damned well mean it too.

Makes all the difference in the world when your voice isn't stifled
doesn't it?


Let's make it safe out there for 'em instead of putting them:

     "in harm's way"  -  "with blinders on".

btw - there _are_ nets out there that _don't_ endanger kids &
put teachers at liability to risks they're intentionally kept
in the dark of.



Frank L. Topping, Sacramento