From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Subject: Re: Jesus is a Prophet, not Son of God
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:54:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.222210.4415@athena.cs.uga.edu>, hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov16.114345.4695@kth.se> d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi) writes:
|> >Secondly all prophets are looked upon as sinless, not only Jesus (pbuh) 
|> >in Islam.....
|> 
|> This is inconsistent with reality.  Moses even sinned.  So did David as we
|> see from what many scholars feel is the court history from his time 
|> recorded in Samuel. 
|> 

:-)... Well it depends on what you mean with reality......
Do you with reality mean the Bible?????

Let me just give you one example of many things in the Bible that can
be questioned.

We learn from (Deu. 23:2) that a bastard even to his tenth generation 
wont enter into the congregation of the Lord. Right?
But from Matthew ch. 1 it is understood that David (pbuh) penetrates the 
tenth generation from Phares.
But Phares was a bastard son as it is indicated in Genesis 38.
How then can David (pbuh) enter into the congragation of the Lord?

I know it is is tough to get to Paradise but when David a great messenger
of God can't make it then something must be wrong. 

My personnaly view on the subject (whatever that may be worth) is that 
the scribes & Co put in alot of bad things about the prophets to justify
their own actions... It is always easier to say: Ey look David did it??
so when he could do it and he was a prophet of God then why do you blame
me for it????

Take (2 Samuel 11:2 -5) as an example where prophet David (pbuh) is reckoned 
to have committed adultery with another man's wife.
If a great messenger can do it and then afterwards get forgiven for it 
then why shouldn't we?

Read (Genesis 35:22) concerning the son of Prophet Jacob, by the name 
Reuben committing forniciation with his father's wife. Btw what is his
punishment????? 

Then read (Genesis 38:15-18) and you will learn how to deal with a prostitute.
If a son of a great messenger of God can do it why shouldn't we?

Take (Judges 16:1) about Simson visiting Gaza as an example.
So what was the first thing he did?
Well he saw a hore and "WENT INTO HER" ( i.e had sexual intercourse with
her). :-) educational isn`t it?????

And then read (Ezek 23) and you will read another nice story....

Seriously there are alot of parts in the Bible that from a religious perspective
very easily can be questioned to be from God.....


|> 
|> >In Christianity you are told that the Messiah and the Prophet is the same
|> >person.
|> >But is that true?
|> >According to us Muslims it isn't.
|> 
|> Muhammad was not qualified to be The Prophet.  He was not Jewish.

How come?????
Is God for Jews only????

So who is this Prophet?
What is it that will show the People of the Book that it is really he?
What are his signs?

Well, lets look in the Bible if we can find something regarding this Prophet
foretold.

Deu:(18:15)"The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet from the midst
of your brethren like me (Moses); to him you shall listen."

Deu:(18:18)"I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brethren like
you, and will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that
I command him,"

In the Islamic way of looking at these verses we look upon the Prophet who
*WILL BE LIKE* Moses(pbuh) as Muhammed(pbuh).
In Christianity this Prophet foretold is the Messiah, Jesus (pbuh).

*LIKE MOSES (pbuh)*

So let us compare them :

  MOSES                  MUHAMMED                JESUS
-------------           -------------           ----------------

normal birth            normal birth            virgin birth

two parents             two parents             only a mother

married                 married                 no wife

had children            had children            no children

left birthplace         left birthplace         according to
when conspiration       when conspiration       Chritianity killed
to kill him             to kill him             after conspiration

brought Law             brought the Law and     brought the Gospel
                        the Gospel.

leadership accepted     leadership accepted     leadership NOT accepted
during lifetime         during lifetime         during lifetime

career as a ruler       career as a ruler       NO career as a ruler

encounted the           encounted the           NO physical combat
enemy and was           enemy and was
victorious              victorious

mission completed       mission completed       mission NOT completed
                                                will return to do so

established a new       established a new       no new order established
order under lifetime    order under lifetime    will return to do so

normal death            normal death            dissapeared

----------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been no Messenger like Jesus (pbuh). He was totally different if 
you compare him with the rest.

Jesus (pbuh) life was totally different and it can't be compared with 
the life of any other Messenger.

Jesus (pbuh) was a Messenger that *SHOULD* be different, he was to become the
Messiah. Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) can't be compared as they are *TOTALLY* 
different.

Still lets continue...

Deu:(18:18)"I will raise up for them a prophet *FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE
YOU*, and will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that
I command him,"

So the Prophet will be from the brethren of Moses (pbuh).
Who is the brethren of Moses (pbuh)?

Well, Moses (pbuh) was an israelite of whoms forefather is Isaac(pbuh).
And Isaac(pbuh) had a brother by the name of Ishmael(pbuh).
Ishmael(pbuh) is the forefather of the Arabs.
So Moses (pbuh) brethren are the Ishmaelites, the Arabs.

So the Prophet will be an ARAB.
Was Jesus (pbuh) an Arab?
No, he was an Israelite.

So it can't be referring to Jesus (pbuh).

Read also Isaiah 66:20 and you will very clearily see the difference bet-
ween brethren and the children of Israel.
If this new prophet was to come from the descendants of Israel, the
word children whould have been used instead of brethren. The brethren of 
Israel therefore means the desendants of Ishmael(pbuh) who is the brother
of Isaac(pbuh).

It looks as if the comparisation was unnescessary, it was already there, written
in black and white.

Deu:(18:18)"I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brethren like
you, *AND WILL PUT MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH*, and he shall speak to them all that
I command him."

So God will put His words in his mouth.
Interesting.
Put His *WORDS* in his (the Prophets) mouth.

Read this verse loudly.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(3:64)"Say:"O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you:
That we worship None but Allah: that we associate no partners with Him; That
we erect not, from amongst ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah."
If then they turn back, say: " Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims
(bowing to Allah's will)"."

Who is telling us this?
Is it you who are telling everybody to say that?
No, its someone else.
You are just reading whats there.
Someone is commanding you to say this.
Its not your own words you are saying its someone elses.
Someone is *PUTTING HIS WORDS* into *YOUR* mouth.
So who is it?

It's God that is putting His words into your mouth as He put it into the mouth
of the Prophet (pbuh).

Deu:(18:18)"I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brethren like
you, and will put My words in his mouth, and *HE SHALL SPEAK TO THEM ALL THAT
I COMMAND HIM.*"

So what does the Quran say?
Well, lets take a look.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(53:3-4)" Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than
inspiration sent down to him."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(10:15-16)" But when Our Clear signs are rehearsed unto them, those who
rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, say:' Bring us a Reading other
than this, or change this.'
Say:'It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it: I follow naught but
what is revealed unto me: If I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear
the Penalty of a Great Day (to come).'
Say:'If Allah had so willed, I should not have rehearsed it to you, nor would
He have made it known to you. A whole lifetime before this have I tarried
amongst you: Will ye not then understand?'"
I think these verses of the Quran explain it better than I could EVER do.

Then there is another verse that has to do with the Prophet foretold.

Deu:(18:19)" And whoever hearken to *MY WORDS* which he shall speak in My name,
I Myself require it of him."

My words = the words of God = the words of the holy Quran.

Deu:(18:19)" And whoever hearken to My words *WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME*,
I Myself require it of him."

This is VERY interesting.
What is it God means with : 'Speak in my name'?

Well, every time a Muslim recite a verse from the words of God (the holy Quran)
s/he ALWAYS say before Bismillah hirrahmanirrahim.
Every Sura (= chapter) in the holy Quran (except one of them) also starts with
Bismillah hirrahmanirrahim.

But what does this Bissmill..... mean?

It means *IN THE NAME OF GOD*, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

So *WE* are speaking in the name of God.

The Prophet (pbuh) spoke in the name of God as the prophecy says that he
should.


Deu:(18:19)" And whoever hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name,
*I MYSELF REQUIRE IT FROM HIM*."

Why will God, the Creator and Maintainor of the Worlds require it from everybody
to hearken to the words of God that this Prophet will be given?

Well, if you think about it for a while you will understand why.

* Its the *WORDS OF GOD*.

* Its the "*LAST* Testament" and therefore should be followed.

* Laws that were given more to punish the Jewish People in the Torah for their
  rebellion were abolished as this Last Testament wouldn't be for a special
  group but for all mankind, for all ages.

* The Jews had changed the Law, forgotten parts of it e.t.c  and made their
  own ones and this had to be corrected.
 
* In Christianity the Law have been forgotten totally (not all groups but in
  the majority of them) and the teaching that Jesus (pbuh) "fulfilled the Law
  concept" had to get abolished.

* It testifies that Jesus (pbuh) is no more than a Messenger of God.

e.t.c e.t.c

Peace
Just one of those Muslims around the world.....
Gani Skepi
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se

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(SAHIH MUSLIMIN)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: 
He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it
with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do 
it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength 
enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, 
and that is the least of faith."
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