HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: comments and questions
Originator: young@plasma
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 16:31:55 GMT

In article <altar.725908907@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...]

>Yes, in fact not only can I imagine a lion eating beans, there is
>the documented case of "Little Tyke", the pet lion in
>Washington State, who when alive back in the 1940-50'ss refused to
>eat flesh.>

[...]

>    So, although they had worked out a diet Tyke loved --
>    cooked grains mixed with raw milk and eggs, ...

[...]

>    Little Tyke was admittedly an unusual case -- especially
>    as it is the females in a pride of lions that do most of
>    the hunting -- but she does prove that customarily
>    carnivorous creatures can be satisfied with -- or even
>    prefer -- a vegetarian diet"

	After we've just been treated to a discussion of the feline
	requirement for taurine (only found in flesh or synthesized...
	...something not done in the 40s), and the biotin-inhibiting
	results of raw eggs, we see this about a lion who not only
	apparently ate no taurine and consumed raw eggs regularly but
	remained healthier than her flesh-eating sisters.

	This fairly SCREAMS "hoax"; a healthy dose of skepticism should
	be taken with the "Little Tyke" story until we see some real
	scientific evidence that the story related by this vegetarian
	advocate has some basis in fact.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Little Tyke the Veggy Lion
Originator: young@plasma
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 02:23:47 GMT

In article <altar.726094709@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...Little Tyke story deleted...]

>So, we end with a mystery.  Now, one explanation would be that
>the story is an clever hoax.

	"An" clever hoax?  Indeed we have been treated to an interesting,
	if somewhat overwrought and emotional, story which proves nothing
	regarding the vegetarian inclinations of felines.  I am reminded of
	the famous counting horse, which was eventually shown to be watching
	his master for the answers.

>Well, maybe so, but what is not
>fake is the witnessed fact that Little Tyke did not attack small
>animals on her farm (Becky the lamb, Pinky the kitten, etc.).  Of
>course, maybe this is not too unusual.

	Indeed, it's NOT too unusual.  There is a plethora of anecdotes
	regarding the peaceful coexistence of felids and all manner of 
	mammalian, avian, and reptilian companions.  It is also a well-known 
	fact that cats, as with most carnivores, must be taught that certain 
	things are foods; this knowledge is generally supplied by example 
	by the mother.  If such examples are not forthcoming, then the kitten 
	(or cub) will never associate animals with the concept of food, and 
	may, in fact, reject what other cats normally accept.

>More interesting is that
>Little Tyke did reject raw meat given to her from outsiders.

	See above.  Given what we know about feline nutrition...and let me
	say that the rigors of animal maintenance in zoos have provided a
	wealth of knowledge regarding the proper diet for non-domestic
	felids...I cannot believe that the story of Little Tyke is anything
	but a total, if engaging, hoax.  Let's see the story told by an 
	expert in animal medicine who's not bent on promoting a vegetarian
	diet for cats and dogs, as are the Pedens.

[...]


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Final Word
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:37:05 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Dec30.133625.17519@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>
>No cat with any self respect would accept a vegetarian diet. Without
>meat, a cat would soon become an impotent, gay, wimp, unable to
>stand tall among his neighborhood peers who hunt birds, mice, and
>squirrels for their meals. 

Right, he'd probably start voting Democrat, worrying about
"mice rights", etc ....

:-)
From: andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Date: 24 Dec 1992 19:56:01 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <1992Dec24.084605.26432@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>Since no one had much to speak on that matter, here is what I think.
>The word "fur" is disgusting to many of us. While some people go to
>extreme lengths to produce artificial meat from soyabeans to feed
>a vegetarian, the vegetarian guest is hardly impressed. In fact, he
>might not even endure it. Why meat in the first place ?
>
>Similarly why fur, even if artificial ? Fur is not socially acceptable
>in many places. 

I thought I would add my agreement with this.  I have little interest in
eating replicas of the things I have decided are against my morals.  The
veggie "burgers" I have enjoyed taste nothing like meat.  My one slip is
the package of "Fakin Bacon" in our freezer.  I can't quite believe that
I bought it but hope the health store owner was right when she said it
doesn't really seem like bacon, but it does taste good on toast with
lettuce and tomato.  I think the basic flavor is wood smoke.

Similarly I don't quite see the fascination with fake fur.  Do you really
want to fool people into thinking you would wear fur?  I think fur is
beautiful and if I want to pay tribute to it in my clothing I would go
for using the pattern of stripes and spots and colors in a print, not to
duplicate the hair itself.

While there are many questions about "fake" meat on the net, do most
veggies really eat these?  Perhaps the fake meats really appeal to the
health-reasons veggies and others on restricted diets.

Andy
Pesce-ovo-lacto-veggie (a.k.a. a pesky-veggie :-) )
for environmental and ethical reasons if you must know.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Final Word
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 04:48:27 GMT

My cats eat a very large amount of vegetarian stuff - after all,
people food is a treat! Last night, I was lucky to get ANY of my
dinner; they all decided that green beans and garlic with brown
rice was THE thing to eat.  After that, still being hungry (with
4 cats begging, who's surprised???) I munched some cashews.  Only
one wanted the nuts, but I suspect that was more from them all being
STUFFED on my dinner!!!

Other than that, I feed them alternately Iams diet food and Lick
Your Chops food.  I don't know as much about the former, except
that when eating that exclusively, they lose more of their pudge.
The latter is all natural, only using meat acceptable for human   
consumption - i.e. no road kills, no beef lips, etc...
 
I
oops...
I'd like to wean them off of the other stuff gradually, but I think
I'd like to get them (and myself) on to a regular eating schedule first.
It's going to be hard - they've been "free feed" for 7 years, and
you can't do that with fresh food.  If I feed them one meal a day of
fresh and the rest dry, they'll eat just as much dry as before and
eat the fresh in addition, I know them that well.
 
Also, a couple are shyer about approaching the food bowl and a couple
will bully them away, so they might not get their fair share.
 
*SIGH* The trials and tribulations of motherhood.  At least my cat
hasn't needed surgery... yet.  Hopefully, she ejected all of the plastic
that she ate.  Stupid cat!

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Becoming a vegetarian and lactose intolerance
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:57:29 GMT

Eric Hansen writes:

[...]
>Shortly after cutting beef and pork out of my diet, I decided that I was
>lactose intolerant (classic indigestion symptoms).  Drinking Lactaid or
>DairyEase brand milk prevents this.  Is there possibly any causation here?
>It seems peculiar that I've consumed regular milk my whole life without any
>problem (I'm 22), and as soon as I stop eating beef and pork, I become
>lactose intolerant!

    As you probably know, lactose intolerance is generally due to
the insufficient or reduced production of the enzyme lactase,
which serves to break down lactose.  Of course, there are marked
individual and racial differences to here be considered (about
85% of the Japanese, 99% of Nigerian tribesmen, and only 7% of
the Swiss who have been pasturing cows for centuries, hence about
75% of adults in all ethnic groups except those of northwest
European origin)).

Just to reiterate for other readers, it is to be remembered that
virtually no digestion of disaccharides like lactose occurs in
the mouth or stomach.  In humans it all takes place in the upper
intestine.   The enzyme lactase here catalyzes the cleavage of
lactose to equimolar amounts of galactose and glucose which is
then absorbed across the gut wall.  When lactose isn't broken
down in the small intestine it ends up in the colon, where
bacteria there have a riotous feast producing gas that in turn
causes those typical symptoms of bloating, cramps, wind, diarrhea
and maybe nausea.  The diarrhea may result in nutritional
deficiencies since food matter is being purged before certain
nutrients are fully absorbed.

    Now, your increased sensitivity may be due to something as
simple as the fact that with age, the majority of adults have a
reduced production of lactase.  Most individuals with some
lactose intolerance will not experience any immediate symptoms
from a 8-oz glass of milk since they can still produce sufficient
lactase to break down the lactose, but here is a critical
threshold where too much of an intake of lactose exceeds the
individual's production of lactase necessary to deal with the
increased intake.

    Another possible reason for your apparent increased
sensitivity may be due to an inadvertent greater consumption of
milk and diary products, however slight.  Possibly, that critical
threshold has been reached.  Certainly, an increased consumption
of dairy products frequently occurs with new vegetarians who are
under the mistaken assumption that they must do this in order to
maintain an adequate protein intake.  Hence, the intestinal
problems they may experience is due to the increased consumption
of milk that is now making more manifest the lactose intolerance
they always had.

                                Happy Vegetarian New Year,
                                        ted
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN:  long haired gourmet goes nuts for NYE
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:21:22 GMT
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace

New Year's Eve has long been a time for gourmet restaurants to wheel out their
big guns.  For us weirdo types, NYE is a time to wish we were @Milly's in San
Rafael.  Oh well.  Any, I've spent this afternoon in the kitchen and will do 
so tommorow as well in meagre imitation of the Malones' probably sexual menu.
Haven't got time to put the recipes in now, so they'll be coming up slowly 
over the next week.  Anyway, here's the menu:

Appetizer:   Wheat berry caviar on arame toast

Soup:        Carrot and red pepper

Starter:     Provencal artichoke tarts

Sorbet:      Champagne lemon granite

Entree:      N.Y. Cima roulade,
	     Garbanzo parsnip gnocchi and
	     Garlic parsley ribbons in tomato sauce w/
	     Zucchini w/toasted almonds

Salad:       Mixed greens w/shaved carrots and marinated mushrooms i
		in homemade French dressing

Desert:	     Mocha creme pie


Hope the menu satisfies y'all out there.  I know you won't be making this
tommorow, but it's good enough for damn near any special occasion I can
think of, so just be patient;-)

Billy Magic
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: 11jsutton@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: I've quit "Better Than Milk?" now. *sigh*
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:44:03 GMT

My thanks to everyone who posted their comments on "Better Than Milk?"...
I won't buy it again, and will write to the company that makes it to tell
them why.  It really seems crazy to me that they'd make something with
appeal to vegans yet make the product lacto-vegetarian.  I mean most
lacto vegetarians never touch soy milk of any sort in the *first* place!

--Jennifer Sutton
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: VEGAN:  long haired gourmet goes nuts for NYE
Date: 3 Jan 93 06:44:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan3.064422.10797
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan3.043621.1184@sarah.albany.edu> la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>What is "grain coffee substitute"? I THINK I might know, but I'm not
>sure...
 
Postum.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:21:38 GMT

very nice passage, abhay... lots to think about in it.

very timely, too. :)

*j*
--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Vegan Xmas Pudding
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:46:43 GMT


              THE ULTIMATE VEGAN CHRISTMAS PUDDING
                       (look Ma, no suet!)

     "Whenever people say `We mustn't be sentimental', you can
     take it they are about to do something cruel.  And if they
     add `We must be realistic', they mean they are going to make
     money out of it"
          Brigid Brophy


The following recipe comes from the Manitoba Animal Alliance
(MAA) , Canada, COMPASSIONATE BAKING desert cookbook.  The MAA is
a non-profit organization and all profits from the sales of their
cookbooks goes directly to helping the animals in need. :-)

     Manitoba Animal Alliance
     P.O. Box 3193
     Winnipeg, Manitoba
     Canada   R3C 0K2
     (204) 772 4105


Soak overnight:
     1 cup raisins
     1 cup sherry

Other Ingredients:

     1 cup margarine
     1 cup sugar
     1 cup flour
     1 tsp baking soda
     1/2 tsp salt
     4 heaping tsp. flax seed egg replacer or commercial egg
     replacer equal to 4 eggs
     2 cups chopped dates
     3/2 cups grated carrots
     3/2 cups chopped pecans
     1 cup breadcrumbs
     1 cup soymilk
     1 cup soymilk
     1 cup currants
     1/4 cup molasses
     1 Tbs grated orange peel
     1 Tbs grated lemon peel
     2 tsp cinnamon
     1/2 tsp cloves
     1/2 nutmeg
     1/2 mace

Cream margarine and sugar in a large bowl.  Add egg replacer and
mix in all other ingredients.  Spoon into a heavily greased 2 qt.
mold and cover tightly.  Aluminum foil will do, if tightly
sealed.  In bottom of a deep stock pot (8-10 qt.), place a rack
or overturned soup plate.  Add boiling water to reach halfway up
side of mold. Cover kettle and steam pudding in gently simmering
water for 5 hr., adding boiling water as needed.  Remove mold
from water and uncover.  Cool for 30 min.

Loosen pudding from mold with knife and invert onto serving
platter.  Leave mold over pudding to cool if you wish.  Then
steam for 1 hr. before serving.  It can also be frozen when
cooled, but must be defrosted before resteaming.

heat 1/4 cup brandy, pour over and ignite.  Bring to table
flaming, and serve with hard sauce.


LEMON BRANDY HARD SAUCE

Ingredients:
     3/2 cups icing sugar
     1/2 cup margarine
     3 Tbs brandy
     1 tsp vanilla
     1 tsp grated lemon peel

Combine all in a food process, but chill server hours before
serving.

                             Happy Holiday Season Everyone,

                                   ted
From: eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Eric Hansen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Becoming a vegetarian and lactose intolerance
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:12:10 GMT
Organization: Center for Clinical Computing - Boston, MA.

About six months ago, I stopped eating beef and pork.  I have more or less
always been allergic to poultry, so I didn't eat that anyways.  I will
still consume dairy products (Egg Beaters, milk, cheese, etc), and an
occasional piece of fish.

My question goes like this:

Shortly after cutting beef and pork out of my diet, I decided that I was
lactose intolerant (classic indigestion symptoms).  Drinking Lactaid or
DairyEase brand milk prevents this.  Is there possibly any causation here?
It seems peculiar that I've consumed regular milk my whole life without any
problem (I'm 22), and as soon as I stop eating beef and pork, I become
lactose intolerant!

Thanks in advance for any information,

Eric Hansen

--
* Eric J. Hansen                       |    Center for Clinical Computing   *
|  eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu          |   350 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA  |
*  eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu   |            (617) 732-5925          *
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
From: starver@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:31:59 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

In Item 22057 Claudia Kale refers to Ted Altar (I think)
>>we might in turn be better able to understand each other a little
>>more.  

Claudia Kale (STG) writes:

>Again, I ask: exactly how does it "help" to know whether a poster
>is vegetarian or not? Is a vegetarian biochemist a better biochemist
>than an omnivorous one? I may be a victim of a limited imagination,
>but I can only see that sort of information as prejudicial. Hanging
>a tag such as "vegan", "ovo-lacto-vegetarian", "omnivore", or
>"fruitarian" doesn't really tell you very much about the person you
>labelled. The categories are very one-size-fits-all, and I doubt
>that you'd find any two posters in one category who agree on all
>the issues raised here. I might even go so far as to wonder whether
>labelling posters fosters an "us vs. them" atmosphere?

In view of the flames here in r.flame.v I see your concern. I don't think
it is possible for a human not to be prejudiced. Isn't most of our
thinking (learning?) predicting outcomes based on past experience? I
consider this 'prejudging', although this is not what people complain
about with prejudice. I think the negative actions taken because of
past experiences (or misinformation) is what we object to. I love the 
news because it puts me in contact with a caliber of people I could
never put together here in Kansas. What I cherish is personal contact.
Knowing that a respondant is a woman, a vegan, a vegetarian, associated
with the Society of Neuroscience, lives in taiwan, is Hindu, etc. helps
make news contact more personal and much more enjoyable for me. As far 
as prejudice goes, can't help it, I'm human (Although I can't recall
having negative feelings for someone for any reason other than their
own actions). How should you feel about this? 
Well, now my past experience includes an articulate, bright, 
female (gawd, I hope this is right, I am guessing from your name, again
from my past experiences with people named Claudia), vegetarian who
thinks [..thoughts too numerous to mention..].
Here (KS), most people can pronounce vegetarian but few know what it
means and fewer know why you would want to follow these precepts.
A person may have problems with people discounting their statements but
I, personally, am proud to say who I am and what I believe.

For the record:
Steve Tarver
Ex-submarine/commercial nuclear power plant worker
29 y-o non-traditional Comp. Eng. Student
Vegetarian
______________________________________________________________________________
Lo, there are some who can call themselves nothing more than a passage 
for food, producers of dung, fillers up of privies, for of them nothing else 
appears in the world, nor is there any virtue in their work, for nothing of 
them remains but full privies.
						Leonardo da Vinci

starver@oread.cc.ukans.edu		The virtual me.
starver@volta.ece.ukans.edu		The real me.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: Strange Squeamishness
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:05:00 GMT

> Ted Wayn Altar writes:
>
> Just one neurotic? :-)   Anyway, good to see a fellow Vancouverite
> posting, especially from what I gather bo be that pay-as-you-go
> MINDLINK.  I wasn't aware that they also had a link to internet.
> When I graduate next year no doubt I'll be losing my free
> computer account at the university; maybe I could
> continue via MINDLINK.  I'm sure George Clark would
> be pleased  :-)
>
>                         Happy Vegetarian Holiday,
>
>                                         ted


hi, ted... thanks for the thoughtful reply...

yes, I'm sure that ML would be thrilled... we get all the internet that we
can handle, and menu-driven to boot!! :)
happy Christmas to you!!

*j*

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Terminology Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:44:03 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A75B5E083D060456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Mon, 21 Dec 92 11:42:00 GMT

I lost the last paragraph to my previous missive on this subject. My news
server has decided not to allow me to add to a thread. So excuse the
confusion.

After my suggestion of alternative terms there was:

Anyway - I agree with Ted's suggestion of using the term semi-vegetarian,
a term of some sort - any sort - is needed. Giving up things we have
become accustomed to can sometimes be extremely tough and we need to
acknowledge the work people do when changing life styles for the better.
So, for my part, a semi-vegetarian is a person who is in the process of
converting to a vegetarian life style.

Lawrence
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg