HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Tufte
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:37:49 GMT

In article <93022.133725U48073@uicvm.uic.edu> Cole Kendall <U48073@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>In article <1jodr5INNo1@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger
>Squires) says:
>>
>>        On this subject, I've always wondered how good
>>        the book(s) advertised in SciAm and SciNews are.
>>        The ad I'm thinking of is the one with the graphic
>>        of Napolean's Russian campaign.  As I recall the
>>        price is reasonable, and am curious how it compares
>>        to the high dollar books in these reviews.
>>
>_The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ by Edward Tufte,
>some sort of professor at Yale (design? architecture ?).  He discusses
>how to create informative data displays, using many examples from
>journals, magazines and elsewhere.  I found it useful, but I am
>in the business of displaying quantitative information.

Tufte's book is about printed, generally non-computer generated graphics.
Some general principles apply to computer displays, and some new problems arise
out of computer technology.  For example, computers make it easy to add
motion/animation to visual displays.  How can this enhance or obscure
information?  Another example are advanced data interpolation methods
such a phong-shaded nurb surfaces.  The actual data may only be at
the control points.  Is computer interpolation enhancing understanding
or distorting the view of the data points?
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26500 talk.politics.soviet:10778
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:13:08 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <BHANAFEE.93Jan26182240@picasso.ads.com>
bhanafee@picasso.ads.com (Brian Hanafee) writes:

>In article <1993Jan25.122432.19779@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>[bulk of posting excised]

MZ:
>>the same logic can be applied to justify the Nazi Judeocide, which
>>logically proceeded from the assumption that the Jews were an evil and
>>noxious race, congenitally and irremediably deadly to the Aryans.

BH:
>I'm sure Mr. Zeleny will be pleased to no end that he has just
>provided yet another positive data point for Godwin's Rule.

So what?

>--
>Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
>bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
>(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Where is well met in Huston, TX?
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:20:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: morrow.1jufk6INNi0g
Distribution: world
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Just off to Huston for a couple of days. Not a town awash with books,
but I will be meeting up with the infamous Mike Schoenberg with whom
I have once co-authored a paper. Apart from an extravagantly grey afro,
Mike is also known and loved for his pseudo-Russian-Jewish greeting:
shalomski! But enough of this trivial stuff and down to business. Where
in Huston is the closest thing to a RABfestspielhaus?

						RABworm
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26407 alt.president.clinton:1840
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:14:31 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.


                Spring


Green-shadowed people sit, or walk in rings,
Their children finger the awakened grass,
Calmly a cloud stands, calmly a bird sings,
And, flashing like a dangled looking-glass,
Sun lights the balls that bounce, the dogs that bark,
The branch-arrested mist of leaf, and me,
Threading my pursed-up way across the park,
An indigestible sterility.

Spring, of all seasons most gratuitous,
Is fold of untaught flower, is race of water,
Is earth's most multiple, excited daughter;

And those she has least use for see her best,
Their paths grown craven and circuitous,
Their visions mountain-clear, their needs immodest.


                - Philip Larkin
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26538 talk.politics.soviet:10799 soc.culture.jewish:26280
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:37:08 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <kosinov.727722981@ceg.uiuc.edu>, kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:
> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
# #	I guess I am not an intellegint person :(
# #	There are rights which any goverment abrogates
# #	and there are rights which nobody could deprive
# #	you of. 
# 
#  I have no idea what this Delphic pronouncement means, but if Verbitsky also
# believes that "political terror does not necessarily abrogate human rights,
# then I am beginning to understand why so many people have put ALL of Harvard
# into the kill file.
# 
# Greg K.

The notion that "political terror does not necessarily abrogate human
rights" defines a fundamental part of the left's agenda.  This is
why, during the L.A. riots, when innocent people were being murdered,
burned out of their houses, raped, etc., many liberal legislators
from the affected areas tried to justify those actions on television.

It should come as no surprise that the same crowd is intent on
disarming the law-abiding population, in order to guarantee that
savages can do as they wish.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Pentagon Papers and Prior Restraint
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:15 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>The case was indeed one involving prior restraint--the effort to prevent 
>publication of the remaining installments of the papers.  The majority opinions
>repeatedly recognize that prior restraint was the paramount issue.
>J. Del Col

+------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+
Yes, but that is of course mitigated by the fact that the public was already
aware of the scope and general content of the papers.  Nixon was basically
saying, `I don't want the Times to reveal any more of my lies,' in the public
perception as opposed to the `I don't want the Times revealing secrets vital
to national security' that he probably would have gotten away with otherwise.







-SubGenius
From: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:05:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au500@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zinn)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) says:

>From the _Globe and Mail_'s review of William Harmon's _The Top 500
>Poems_ (Jan. 23, 1993):
>
>"400 poetry anthologies were fed into a computer and voila -- the 500
>most anthologized English poems rose to the top.  A revealing snapshot
>of one aspect of Wesern civ, even including a list of the poems in
>order of popularity. (... is Number 1.)"
>
>Can you guess?  I couldn't; but the winner is neither trivial nor
>inappropriate.

My guess: _Sonnets from the Portuguese_ by EB Browning? (specifically number
XLIII: "How do I love thee....")

If not, did she make the top-500 countdown?
-- 
________________________________________________________________________
* Linda Zinn                    When you point a finger at someone,    *
* au500@cleveland.freenet.edu   you're pointing three back at yourself *
* ******Wanted: Books by E.D.E.N. Southworth; cattail dinnerware****** *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper)
Subject: Re: Biggest Disappointments and Surprises
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:40:43 GMT

In article <C1A37t.5uF@ccu.umanitoba.ca> tvorst@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tommy Che Vorst) writes:
>In <1993Jan21.004842.16576@csusac.csus.edu> yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot) writes:
>
>>She mentioned CRIME AND PUNISHMENT which I had to read for not one, but *two*
> ^^^
>
>>---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
>>			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
>>                              | and stick together.
>>CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum    
>
>--> Sorry, Jan, but while I know of many males named Jan, I know no
>females named Tommy. ;-)
>
>+-------------------------------------------------------------+
>Tommy (aka Guy Gadbois)                     Grad Studies, UofM

I know it's somewhat eccentric to mention a book in this newsgroup, but
how about General Caldwell's daughter Tommy in Anton Myrer's _Once An
Eagle_?

-- 
Douglas Harper | harper@oracorp.com | +1 (607) 277-2020
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John A. Nickles)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:35:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.190122.6751@cactus.org> kate@cactus.org (Katherine M. Catmull) writes:
>Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
>speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
>of What Americans Do, or try to do, for good or evil. Two questions:
>
>1. Am I the only one who found the phrase pretty and evocative?
>
>2. Is it a quote, or did our own new president make it up himself?
>
>Beginning to feel more hope(ark.)ful,
>
>Kate


I liked it so much, I stole it. (Okay, I fessed up later.) I had been
working on a presentation on Chaucer's "Parliment of Fowls" in which
the main source was an article explaining why the birds are singing 
about spring in February. (Because medevial calendars claimed birds were
first heard to sing every year around  Feb. 12. How they came up with
this idea is beyond me) Anyway, I was watching the inauguration when
Clinton said the "forcing the spring" line. I immediately wrote down
the sentence and began my presentation the following day with that 
quote. (The presentation went over well, btw, though I don't
think it was solely due to the quote.)

John A. Nickles
Standard Disclaimer:
Whann that Aprill with his souers soote...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk
Subject: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 15:11:17 BST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA17975; Thu, 28 Jan 93 07:12:56 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA18671; Thu, 28 Jan 93 07:12:51 -0800
X-Received: from bnr.co.uk by eurogate.bnr.co.uk with SMTP (PP) 
          id <27534-0@eurogate.bnr.co.uk>; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:12:44 +0000
X-Received: from bnr.co.uk by hedera.bnr.co.uk with SMTP (PP) 
          id <23258-0@hedera.bnr.co.uk>; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:12:39 +0000
X-Received: from holly03.bnr.co.uk on holly.bnr.co.uk over SMTP (5.61++/UK-2.1-MX(holly));
          Thu, 28 Jan 93 15:11:16 GMT
X-To: rec.arts.books.usenet@decwrl.dec.com \(\) \(\) (\) (rec.arts.books \(news\))

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 at 03:19:19 GMT, lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo) wrote:
> I don't use anything quite as exotic, but have managed to hold onto the
> stub that they rip off your ticket when you board a plane.  Somehow this
> stub has lasted years and several books.

For many years I used a 1980 Paris metro ticket. It went from book to
book to book in the sequence of books I was "reading on the train" for
over ten years. I can't remember what happened to it. In the sequence
of books I'm "reading at home" I'm still using an embossed leather
bookmark, a souvenir from a museum in Beamish, given to me in the
early seventies. 

It's unusual for me to be reading more than two books in parallel so I
could never hope to equal other r.a.b. posters impressive curiosity
lists. In fact right now I'm between "train" books (Arthur Ransome's
"Secret Water" is next up) and I haven't read a word of my current
"Home" book (Jane Austin's "Emma") at home, the one-third of it I've
completed so far was read while waiting for a flight at Charles de
Gaulle airport.

-- 
Regards

Steve Fagg      ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 )
BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK

*** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". ***
From: gordon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Gordon Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Identify this book?
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:30:54 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Computer Science Dept. - University of Exeter. UK

Can anyone identify the following book? I read it as a child
in Norwich, England in 1968.

	1. Title is "Smallville" (spelling unsure)
	2. About a town where the children wake up one morning
	   to find all the adults have disappeared. The children
	   then try to get things going on there own - I remember
	   them trying to crank up the local power station.

The libraries can't find it, nor the local booksearch people.
I would like to find it for my 10 year old son.

Thanks.

--
Gordon Watson
 UNIX Systems Manager
  Department of Computer Science
   University of Exeter
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Organization: Moi?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 01:19:03 GMT

Allan Drury, _A God Against the Gods_ and _Return to Thebes_, about Ikhnaton.
--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
                              | and stick together.
CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Angelou
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:42:37 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: huey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1jnbbmINNkjh@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>		William Sapphire, of the New York Times, remarked that 
>		this conjured up for him an image that he was not 
>		certain Angelou had intended. 
>
>I imagine that Sapphire, the Old Fossil, was thinking of coprolites.

Are you suggesting that Safire is of (un)American Blue Blood?




-- 
"Every passion borders on the chaotic, but the collector's passion
borders on the chaos of memories" 
                                                -- Walter Benjamin
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: acw@goofy.apple.COM (Art Willis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Help with bookstore
Summary: Powell's
Keywords: Bookstores, Portland, Large
Date: 23 Jan 93 07:13:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan21.185424.8734@ide.com> nemet@ide.com (Todd Nemet) writes:
>A friend and I are planning a road trip to Oregon this
>weekend.  I seem to recall hearing that there is a very
>large bookstore in Portland called Border's.  But when
>I called information, #25 ("What a dainty moniker.")
>said that there was no Border's listed.
>
>Please email me if you know the bookstore in question
>as buying our weight in books is a major goal of the road
>trip.
>
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Todd Nemet
>nemet@ide.com

I think the name of the bookstore you're looking for is Powell's,
although I can't guarantee that I spelled the name right (or that
I spelled anything else right, for that matter.)

--

Regards,

Art Willis
acw@apple.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26523 alt.censorship:10134
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Health of Free Speech in USA -- WAS: Re: Censorship
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:30:34 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1993Jan26.213508.23709@linus.mitre.org> jon@mitre.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan26.191036.24226@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>> Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
>> significantly in this country in the last three decades.
>> 
>> --Mike
>
>I recommend that you read _Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee_ by
>Nat Hentoff.  I think it will cause you to reconsider the above
>statement.

I have read the book and spoken with Hentoff about it. I think his book is
an excellent one, but it does not contradict what I have posted here.

After Hentoff and I spoke at a recent library association convention in
NYC, I recommended that he look at free speech on electronic forums. I've
since been told he's doing this for a New Yorker piece.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: bhanafee@picasso.ads.com (Brian Hanafee)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300
	<JMC.93Jan24220019@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<1993Jan25.122432.19779@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:22:40 GMT


In article <1993Jan25.122432.19779@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
[bulk of posting excised]
>the same logic can be applied to justify the Nazi Judeocide, which
>logically proceeded from the assumption that the Jews were an evil and
>noxious race, congenitally and irremediably deadly to the Aryans.

I'm sure Mr. Zeleny will be pleased to no end that he has just
provided yet another positive data point for Godwin's Rule.

--
Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:59:50 GMT

In article <13988@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan16.140729.10683@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan16.102022.3751@cheshire.oxy.edu> rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney) writes:
>> >	No, we're born with, and always live with, the ability to
>> >act ethically.  We are not born with innate dispositions in either
>> >direction.
>> 
>> Aren't men, at least, also born with the potential to rape?
>
>Aren't people, at least, also born with the potential to murder?

Precisely my point.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: ndrose@husc9.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Martin Gardner
Keywords: Gardner
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:00:44 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Gardner is a mathematical writer and sometime litterateur. He used to write
a column for Scientific American called "Mathematical Games". He's published
some essays (Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener is the title I remember)
explaining his views on God (Theist), Pragmatism (agin' it), Subjectivism
(ditto), &c. He's also done a number of Annotated editions, e.g. The
Annotated Alice, Chesterton's Fr Brown, Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient
Mariner--rather offbeat but refreshingly no-nonsense.

Nathan Rose
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring
Followup-To: send
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:21:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.221833.12244@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe) writes:
> 
> >Katherine M. Catmull writes:
> >>Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
> >>speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
> >>of What Americans Do....
> 
> 
> I particularly liked the phrase, as the Inauguration comes so close to
> the festival of Imbolc -- the celebration of the promise of spring during
> the coldest/worst part of winter.
> 
     The spring term at Oxford is called Hillary (or is it Hilary?)

Could there be any Freudian connotation here?
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Theroux
Keywords: THUR-oo
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:11:35 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: milton.u.washington.edu

In article <C1FHCK.DIy@panix.com> stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller) writes:
>I'm reading his "Kingdom by the Sea" - pretty vintage stuff.

"Vintage stuff"?  What does that mean? 

I remember reading _Kingdom By the Sea_ and thinking within the first 
three minutes, "Whoa, time for you to move on, pal.  The British Isles 
have clearly lost their enchantment for you." 

I've read a lot of Theroux, and aside from a snide appreciation of 
his snobbery and his finely honed sense of observation, I haven't 
liked much of it.  In fact, I like nothing of his fiction 

*except* 

_Picture Palace_, which I believe was his first published novel.   

I found this a fascinating exercise in imagining an androgyne 
progragonist that was a composite of Georgia O'Keeffe and Alfred 
Stieglitz.  It purports to be the story of one of the women 
pioneers in the art of photography, and my favorite scene is 
when she finds herself cornered in a Greenwich Village garden 
by D.H. Lawrence.  (He has designs on her, she is repelled by 
his bad breath.) 

Question for anyone who has read the book:  did she *really* go 
blind, or was she so repelled by what she saw that she experienced 
a decade oor so of psychological trauma?  (I also had trouble 
tracking time in this book.) 


--Barbara 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu (michael bruce mcdonald)
Subject: Hogan's films
Reply-To: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:59:30 GMT

Great post, Ron.  My erstwhile position is one that I shall no longer
seek to defend, nor to propound.

propounding off,
michael mcdonald
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Subject: Arabic? (was Re: hanif)
Organization: Systems'n'Software
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:51:55 GMT

In article <1jrumcINNqrf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:
>
>In a previous article, yamen@cae.wisc.edu (Soner Yamen) says:
>
>>Bildigim kadariyla "hanif" cahiliye devrinde Hz. Ibrahim (as)'a
>>tabii olup, putlari reddedenlere deniyor.
>>
>
>It is EXTREMELY bad form to print a message in Arabic and not translate 
>for the rest of us.
>
>-- 
>---  !      ^    !\  !
> !   !     /-\   ! \ !
>___  !__  /   \  !  \!  
>                        Avoid cliches like the plague" George Shaw

You've got your languages mixed up, buddy. Is it also an EXTREMELY
bad form (?) to print (?) a mesage in Turkish and not translate
for the rest of you?

Just kidding!

ATTA