HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: Armor Piercing Pistol
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:31:47 GMT

Before the law changed in Canada, I was interested in
making what would be referred to as "armor piercing"
handgun ammunition.  No unlawful intent was contemplated...

Some of the references I found:

Arcane Ball Bullets:The Ultimate Military Slug
by Sgt. Gary Paul Johnston
("Combat Handguns" - August/85 [Harris publication]).
- .45 ACP, 9mmx19

Arcane: The Deadliest Ammo by James B. Adair
(Guns & Survival 1986 - Harris publication).
- 9mmx19, .45 ACP, .357 Mag., .45 Win Mag

The Argument for Small Caliber Handguns by Major Don Holmes
("Rifle" #118, July-August 1988)
- brass projectiles for .22LR,  .25 ACP, 9mmx19.

Reload Clinic - South African "Cuff Link" Bullet by Dean Grennell
(Gun World - May/91 p. 10)

Basically, the "favorite" configuration is a lathe-turned
brass projectile with a pointed conical tip, and a chamfered
base.  Some example weights and performance from Adair article:

9mm		 75g	1868 fps
.45 ACP		125g	1640 fps
.357 Mag         75g	2100 fps
.45 Win Mag	125g	2200 fps

Anyone considering such a project (legally, please) should be a
master reloader and a good machinist.
Matching the bore diameter with the projectile diameter is
critical, unless you like playing with handheld bombs!
One of the tricks used is to make the projectile a little undersize,
to allow for expansion inside the bore due to frictional and
powder heating.  Slightly undersize also reduces the pressures.

Some manufactures put lube grooves in the projectiles and
use special formulation silicone grease to reduce friction.

I believe that the law enforcement only AP pistol ammunition
sold by Winchester/Olin has some of the above general characteristics,
with a friction reducing coating on the projectiles.
(Check out the warehouse/armory scene in "Lethal Weapon III"
 for the manufacture of the so-called "cop killer" "bullets").

By the way, my recollection from my reading is that NO
United States law enforcement personnel have been shot THRU
a vest or "cover" with AP pistol ammo.

Disclaimer:

The above information is provided for reference purposes only.
Manufacture and/or possession of "armor piercing" handgun
ammunition by most United States or Canadian "civilians"
could result in criminal prosecution.
--
Rod Regier, Software Development                     bus: (902)422-1973
Dymaxion Research Ltd.,                              fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3J 1R2            Internet: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca
From: bbbrisco@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Bradley Brisco)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Wanted: Loads for .32 Magnum
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:05:56 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

Hello,

    The last time I was home to shoot with my uncle, he mentioned
having trouble coming up with a satisfactory load for his .32 Mag
revolver. He appears rather attached to it for some reason, and I
was wondering if anyone could recommend loads which have worked
for them or which they have found in obscure literature.
    My uncle, unlike myself, is a very avid collector with a lot of
experience hand-loading, in case that matters. Casting bullets is
not a problem. He is basically looking for something with a little
bit of pep to carry around the farm when riding his horse. He does
have several dozen other pistols, but he appears to be fixated on
finding something to load in this particular revolver.
    If anyone could mail me suggested loads, or post them if they
feel the desire, I would be very grateful. Pointers to articles
are also appreciated.

Thank you,
Brad Brisco

Disclaimer: I'm a lowly undergrad, and therefore speak for no-one.
Perl: One utility to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them.
From: erico@squirrel.pen.tek.com (Eric Oosterhof;627-4329;47-786;tekig1.pen;)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Traveling with a gun
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:51:56 GMT
Organization: tektronix


In article <1992Dec30.140727.9673@samba.oit.unc.edu>, rdrob@med.unc.edu (Ricky Roberson) writes:
|> Hi folks.  I posted to another group, got some really helpful information,
|> and someone also suggested that I post to this group as well. 
|> Here's my question.  I plan to be traveling soon, leaving NC, going
|> through SC, GA, AL, and into Mississippi.  I plan on carrying a handgun
|> for personal protection.  The gun will be a borrowed 9mm.  
                                               ^^^^^^^^
|> My question is about the legality of carrying a handgun in a vehicle.

It might also be prudent to look into the liability of the gun-owner
should you find it necessary to use this borrowed weapon.  Myself, I
have never and will never loan a firearm to anyone for this reason.

|> Rick

Shoot safe, then straight...


L8r,
erico

-- 
Eric Oosterhof                "Gentlemen, I have the utmost confidence 
erico@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM       in your ability to perform...
(503) 627-4329                 the impossible!"  Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
"Choosy mothers choose .gif"  Anthony C. Zable
From: grl@drutx.ATT.COM (Randy Lyman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Marlin model 9 camp carbine questions
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:48:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


Do any of you know of a mail-order source for Marlin Model 9
12-shot magazines?  I see a part number listed in the Natchez
catalog, but on the price page that part number is missing.
Also, for this "camp carbine," is there an equivalent Smith
& Wesson magazine that works?  Are there any "high capacity"
magazines for this rifle (like 20 rounds or more)?
 
BTW, I noticed that it is very difficult to convert the
present "politically correct" 4 round magazine back to its
original capacity   :-)   !  Had to search all of three
minutes to find my punch. . .
 
Any of you out there have the Model 9 and reload for it?
Care to share some "pet loads" with me?  I imagine that this
rifle could handle a diet of +P+ 9mm all day, right?
 
Thanks in advance for your comments.
 
Randy Lyman		grl@drutx.att.com		"I'm the NMLRA!"
From: jest@netcom.com (Jeff Stieglitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Striker 12 Experiences
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:55:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I'm thinking about buying a Striker 12 for home defense and for 
just plain fun.  The company name is "Penn Arms"

Does anybody out there in netland have experience or comments
on this 12-shot semi-auto shotgun beast?

Please email and I will post a summary...


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Stieglitz                                               jest@netcom.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock numbering.
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:31:54 GMT

Excerpts from netnews.rec.guns: 31-Dec-92 Glock numbering. by David C
Winters@pitt.edu 
#      The first Glock to hit the market was the 17 - were numbers 1
# through 16 prototype models?

Well I'm sure that many of us recall the the Glock 7, all ceramic
construction, impossible to detect.  But as David points out, many of
the other Glocks are lesser known.

The Glock 1 was made from very thick porridge, undetectable and quite
nutritious in a pinch.  It didn't have good foul weather resistance
however

The Glock 2 was made from ice, but suffered from brittle failure.  The
Glock 3 incorporated sawdust into the ice to prevent this, but this line
was abandoned for obvious reasons

The Glock 4 was an all steel construction with a plastic chamber and barrel

The Glocks 5 and 6 were made from straw and wood respectively, but had
trouble with being blown down by big bad wolves, thus resulting in the
development of the stone Glock 7 mentioned earlier

I'm sure someone else can elaborate on the Glocks 8 through 16.

:-) it's joke boy, ya know a funny, a anectodotal story with a humorous
intent... :-)

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:40 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec23.000557.1533@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#In article <1992Dec22.032539.5109@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#
##In the beginning of the book it mentions that such powders
##as 296 and H110 shouldn't be used in reduced loads (i.e. don't reduce
##more than 10%) but I don't see any other mentions in .357 Magnum
##or 44 Magnum (pages 426-429) sections.
#
#Hmmm.  I have some H110 and was thinking about making some .44 Special
#class loads in a .44 Magnum case with it ... Guess I'll have to think
#again!  (I was going to check MY Speer reloading book befor starting,
#but maybe I'll just use up some old Unique instead...).

  I tried to find something about this in the new edition (26th)
of the Hodgdon Data Manual (in the hopes that they would know
something about H110. :-)  In the intro to the .44 Spl section
they say "For full-power loads in the .44 Special, a 240-grain
jacketed bullet pushed along by H4227 or H110 is an excellent choice."
However they don't list H110 in the loads suggested for this 
caliber.

  In the .44 Mag intro they say  "One of the all-time classic hunting
loads for the .44 Magnum is a 240-grain bullet seated atop H110."
and they list H110 as one of the powders for which loads are given.
I don't see anything warning against reduced loads.  On the other
hand, Winchester specifically warns against light loads of 296.
In their brochure "Reloading Components Catalog" 12th ed, pg 45
it says "Do not reduce powder charges with 296 powder.  These loads
must be used exactly as shown.  A reduction in powder charge or
change in components can cause dangerous pressures."

  Their technical questions line is 913-631-3851.  Perhaps 
someone would like to call them and post their advice.

--henry schaffer
# ...
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:05 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <1992Dec29.171030.22491@tvnews.tv.tek.com> toddc@spot.tv.tek.com (Todd Carlson) writes:

#When I bought my Hi-Power, the gunsmith in the shop I purchased it from
#said that if I ever want to shoot IPSC I should have this procedure 
#done.  He described a metal strip inside the grip that prevents the
#magazine from dropping freely, and also prevents the hammer from dropping
#when the magazine has been removed.  The primary safety is unaffected.

The Browning magazine safety consists of a little plunger that is
part of the trigger assembly, and that is pushed forward by the magazine.
When the plunger is pushed forward, it moves the tripping lever into
position so that it can contact the connecting sear arm in the slide. The
trigger can thus actuate the sear only when the magazine safety plunger is
depressed by the magazine. The Browning magazine safety does not block the
hammer--it merely disconnects the trigger from the sear. It's an
ingenious--and simple--arrangement.

Since the safety plunger exerts some friction on the magazine, I imagine
that its removal would cause the magazines to come out more easily. In
actual combat, this is a dubious advantage (though I have myself never
accidentally released the magazine on a P35). Trigger action should also be
marginally improved by removal of the plunger. 

I haven't removed the magazine safety from my High Power because I don't
think that the possible advantages of doing this outweigh the risks. For
me, the Browning High Power is a combat pistol _par excellence_, and I see
no reason to remove features that its designers saw fit to incorporate. The
trigger action is satisfactory as is--I wouldn't want a lighter action on a
combat pistol. I shoot as well as I need to with this piece as it comes out
of the box.


 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Question about firing pin on recoil-operated pistol
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:50:12 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA


This weekend I went to try a Firestar M45 that my friend
just bought. It functioned flawlessly with NO malfunctions
after 200 rnds of 230gr .45acp FMJ.

My only concern was the shape of the primers on spent
cases. Every primer exhibited a streak from the center
to the outer edge of primer. I presume this is caused
by the firing pin that is protruding into the primer
while the action is opening.

Is this a serious problem ? What can be done to correct
this ?

I would rather NOT recommend to my friend that he send
his Firestar back to Interarms for repairs. Who knows
when they would return it.
From: jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun safe summary request
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:33 GMT

About a month or two ago there was a discussion on safes.  The
requestor (whose name I've forgotten) posted a summary.  I would
like to get a copy of this as mine has been deleted. Please email it.

Thanks
Jim        jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Canadian gun laws
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:55:48 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

Apparently, the magazine limits (5 rounds for semi-auto rifles &
10 for handguns) that were to come into effect Jan 1st, 1993 have
been delayed until July 1993.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: wkb@cblph.att.com (William K Brummett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T


    In article <1992Dec30.225158.15666@henson.cc.wwu.edu>,
    n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
    > 
    > A lefty I know wants to buy his first centerfire pistol for a
    > "fun gun" for use by himself and kids.  His two tenative qualifica-
    > tions are 1) that it have a manual safety, 2) it has controls for
    > lefties, manual safety at the very least.
    > ... 
    > The Browning standard with the molded grips seems like a good
    > starter gun and very good gun in general, but I have a concern:
    > 
    > 1)  The standard has safety on one side only.  What models have the
    > ambi safety, and how much extra work/cost is it to order an ambi
    > safety for the standard model? 
    > ... 


    The Quality Parts Co. catalog lists a "combat extended ambidextrous
    safety" (black) for the Browning Hi Power at $34.95.  There may be some
    gunsmith fitting necessary -- the blurb doesn't say.

	Quality Parts Co.
	999 Roosevelt Trail, Building 3
	Windham, Maine 04062

	(207) 892-2005
	Catalog $2  (AR-15 rifles, parts for military rifles and pistols)

    -- Keith

-- 
    | (614) 860-3187         Copyright (C) 1992, by       AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | att!cblph!wkb  or,     W.K. Brummett and AT&T      6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wkb@cblph.att.com       All rights reserved.      Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:42 GMT


#Looking through the Speer and Sierra reloading manuals, I read NOT to load
#44 magnum jacketed bullets lighter than the minimum recommended load.
#For example, a 240 gr jacketed bullet can be loaded to around 10.5 to 11.5 gr
#of W-231, but no less.  But looking at the same bullet in the 44 Special
#loading, it is backed up by around 6 gr of W-231.

#So if I can load it with 6 gr in a .44 Special case, why can't I load the
#same bullet with 6 gr in a .44 magnum case?

there is some evidence that, if the powder does not take up a certain
percentage of the case volume (I don't know what % exactly), then that
round may detonate with many times the force expected from that weight of
powder. if this scenario happens then the gun is likely to blow up,
possibly taking your hand and face along with it.

I have not heard an explanation of the physics/chemistry involved.
there was an article on it in a gun rag sometime in the past year.
I think the cover showed a 38 special revolver with the top 1/2 of the
cylinder blow off and the top strap curled up in a ball.

the way to go is to use a powder with more volume. an article I read
had some target loads using green dot or red dot. I bought all the components
(I bought red dot) but haven't set up my press for it yet.


	Regards,
	Ed Pendzik
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recommendations for purchase, high capacity autoloader
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, Harry.Johnson@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Harry Johnson) says:

#So, then, given these constraints:  intended use of defense, high capacity
#(>15 rounds), price <$650 or $700, which gun should I shop for and why? 
#Any advice is appreciated, especially with regard to caliber and specific
#model selection.

You can't go wrong with one of the Glocks in any caliber.
Someone else can list some whys.
From: sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: wanted .223 sources
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:52:12 GMT
Organization: Kent State University

I am looking for a good source of .223 shells for the AR15.  I am not
too interested in reloading my own (yet).  I am interested in somewhat
inexpensive - but reasonably accurate shells (aren`t we all!).  These
will be used only for target shooting at the local range - upto 200
meters.  I have heard that surplus .223 is available.  Anyone have any
sources - and what is the legality of shipping these - do I need a
federal firearms license? There is presently no regulation regarding
the ownership of them (AR15 or .223) in the state where I would
store/use them (Pennsylvania).  I want to purchase in bulk for cost
savings - a quantity in the few thousand range would not be
unreasonable.

Thanks,  Stephen
From: pusv1305@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .22 Magnum Semi-Autos?
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:37 GMT
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Has anyone seen a .22 Magnum Semi-Auto Pistol or Rifle?  NO DERRINGERS.
From: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: Pet loads for 223 (correction)
Date: 2 Jan 93 18:44:07 GMT

In an earlier posting, I indicated my preference for
Winchester Small Rifle primers in 223 Rem.
I gave the wrong P/N abbreviation for that component.

The correct designation is "WSR".
--
Rod Regier, Software Development                     bus: (902)422-1973
Dymaxion Research Ltd.,                              fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3J 1R2            Internet: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loading data accuracy?
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:55 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Dec31.173521.8970@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# ...
#BTW, in .45 ACP the max suggested loads/vels for fast powders like BE 
#and 231 seem to be below even the standard vels for non +P factory 
#for some bullets in some reloading guides.

  At least part of the reason is that Bullseye and W231 are two of the
fastest burning powders available and therefore could cause very high
pressure levels if too heavy a load is used.  A slower burning powder
will not rise in pressure as fast, and will keep burning a bit longer
and can give a higher muzzle velocity without having any higher a
pressure.  An extreme example of this is seen when comparing Bullseye
with 2400, which is a rather slow pistol powder.  With a 158 gr. JSP
bullet in a .357 Magnum

Powder  gr.  MV   psi
BE     6.8  1,250 33,100
2400  15.2  1,535 33,100

in which the pressure is the same but there is a whopping 285 fps
difference.

  In general Bullseye is not recommended when high velocity is
desired.
# ...

--henry schaffer
From: ksw9324@zeus.tamu.edu (WASHBURN, KENNETH SCOTT)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .380 Derringer
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:52:09 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services

Has anyone had any problems with the Davis Ind. .380 auto caliber derringer?   
Saw it in a gun shop for only $69.00.  The .22 magnum derringer was the same 
price.  At that price it is hard to go wrong.  If one were to load the .380 
version with Glaser safety slugs, this would be an adequate self-defence pistol.
From: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: Canadian gun laws
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:01:38 GMT

[MODERATOR:  An informational post for our readers up north;
as usual, please direct all followup and commentary to t.p.g.
Thanks, also as usual....]

Regarding delayed implementation of new Canadian firearm
& related regulations.

There was a news-wire story by Bob Cox of The Canadian Press
(in Ottawa), picked up by many local news papers on 15-Dec-92.
This followed the 14-Dec-92 announcements by the Canadian
Justice Minister Kim Campbell.

In essence, Mr. Cox indicates that the implementation date
for the large capacity magazines regulations will be
delayed from 01-Jan-1992 to 01-Jul-1992.

This is to allow the provinces and territories time
to set up registration systems for "sports shooters".

Only "sports shooters" will be allowed to possess LCM's
(large capacity magazines) for approved competitions
and practice for same.

All other LCM's will become "prohibited weapons", with a
penalty of up to 10 years in prison for possession.
That's right, the magazine itself will become the
"prohibited weapon".

(Hand over your money, I have a 30 round magazine aimed right at you...)

5 round limit for center-fire rifles and shotguns,
10 round limit for handguns.

Exemptions for 10 round Lee-Enfield .303 box magazines and
8 round en-bloc clip for 30-06 M1 Garand.

I have not heard that the date was to be delayed to allow
consideration of restricting or prohibiting yet more
firearms.  They can do that at any time with the new
"enabling" legislation in bill C-17.


The above information is based upon the Canadian Press story,
the Canadian Order In Council implementing large capacity
cartridge magazine regulations, and my own indirect
knowledge of how the regulations will be implemented
in the province of Nova Scotia.

If you are a Canadian resident, I would strongly urge
you to support the NFA (National Firearms Association).
I believe they are by far the most effective pro-firearms
advocacy organization in Canada today.

--
Rod Regier, Software Development                     bus: (902)422-1973
Dymaxion Research Ltd.,                              fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3J 1R2            Internet: rr@dymaxion.ns.ca
From: grant.robinson@CANREM.COM (Grant Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: airgun lubricant
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:35:47 GMT


How apropriate is the silicone oil for metal on metal parts?

Regards
Grant
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044