HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell,G2,3123,homephone)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Qualifying Time for Boston
Date: 6 Oct 92 09:54:36 GMT
Reply-To: atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

In article 9988@Princeton.EDU, quinn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael J. Quinn) writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.204709.19935@schbbs.mot.com> p0035c@email.mot.com (Deena Snell) writes:
> >Does anyone know what the qualifying times for the Boston Marathon are for
> >a female, age 24 and a male, age 36 or where you can get a copy of what 
> >the qualifying times are?
> 
> Boston Marathon
> ==================
> The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots day (3rd monday in April).
> For an application send a SASE (business size) to:
> 
>         Boston Athletic Association Boston Marathon
>         P.O. Box 1992
>         Hopkington, MA 01748
> 
> The qualifying times are:
>  
>  Age   Men   Women
> 18-34  3:10  3:40
> 35-39  3:15  3:45
> 40-44  3:20  3:50
> 45-49  3:25  3:55
> 50-54  3:30  4:00
> 55-59  3:35  4:05
> 60-64  3:40  4:10
> 65-69  3:45  4:15
> 70+    3:50  4:20
> 
> A couple of marathons held just before the cutoff date for applications:
> 
> 27 Feb, Pensacola, Blue Angel Marathon, 904-452-4391.
> 6 Mar, Aberdeen MD, Last Train to Boston Marathon, 301-661-6099.


How long will a qualifying time last for, ie if someone ran a 3.01 marathon in
1986 will that qualify him for next years Boston? Also if you run 3.12 aged 34
will you qualify for next years Boston if you turn 35 before April?

thanks    tony bell
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:54:43 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL

fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
>I am having real difficulty following your model for human physiology.
>Previously you stated that one sustained tendon damage during a run of
>20 miles or more and the body needed weeks to recover.  I gave proof
>by contradiction that this is not true, e.g. there are many people who
>run more than 20 miles at a time several times a week. Now you seem to
>be saying that the damage is conditional, some people sustain it
>others do not.  Do you know what the criteria are for sustaining
>tendon damage?  Genetic predisposition?  Level of conditioning?
>Environmental factors?

The model is this:

  Damage (miles)  +----------------+  Healing (time)
----------------->|   Tendons      |----------------->
                  +----------------+

Damage increases with distance and decreases with time.  When the box
fills up, an injury occurs.

ALL running damages the tendons, and the damage is directly
proportional to distance.  The rate of healing varies, and might be
as high as 150 miles/week in a few genetically gifted elite athletes,
but is probably closer to 20-50 mi/week in most people.  As long as the
rate of damage is less than the rate of healing, then no harm occurs.

The tendon's capacity to absorb damage before an injury occurs is
a couple hundred miles, or about 2 month's worth of running, according
to the model.  Tendons usually heal with about 2 months of rest.

I strive to get the maximum training effect from minimum miles by cross 
training and varying pace, distance, and effort.  I reduced my weekly 
mileage from 30 to 15 2.5 years ago after my last overuse injury, and 
have since run three marathons, a 50K, and an Ironman-distance triathlon.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu (Joseph Seeley)
Subject: Re: racing pace
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:03:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.233556.17538@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo) writes:
>my first 5k on Labor Day and psyched myself out because of all the other 
>runners; I started too fast and was dead at the end.
>
>I have a 5 miler coming Saturday, and hope to keep a more level head this time.
>Do most runners keep a constant pace throughout the whole race?  I tend to
>take it easier towards the beginning of my runs then gradually speed up. Any

I think your strategy is good, especially while you are learning what your
race pace is.

There are two issues here (at least).  What pace should you run at, and how do
you know you're at that pace.  Experience helps you with both, but you won't
get much between now and Saturday.  So --

What pace?  How about figuring out your pace (minutes per mile) from that
Labor Day 5K that you did not run wisely?  That average pace might actually
be a good target for a five mile run.  It will feel too easy at the
beginning, and it will feel harder as the race goes on.  You should pass the
5K mark in the same time that you ran before, but you have almost 2 more
miles to go.  You'll be able to do it because you ran evenly (and maybe 
because you are in better shape).

How do you know you're at that pace?  The breathing tip mentioned earlier
might work, although that also takes experience.  You can ask at the start
of the race for runners who will be running at the pace you want, though this
is pretty risky -- so many runners go out faster than they say they want to
run.  Eventually, you should get yourself to a measured course (like a
track) and do some running at specific paces to learn what they are like.

Good luck.


Joseph Seeley	| seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu
		| seeley / cca / cerl
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Injury risk using a treadmill?
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:33:19 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

According to Gabe Mirkin, a former competitive runner who is now a
sports-medicine physician among other things:

Runners who exercise on treadmills all winter, and then return to
pavement when spring arrives, are prone to hamstring injuries. The
hamstrings don't get an adequate workout on treadmills to keep a
runner conditioned for pavement, especially when treadmills are
used in lieu of pavement for extended periods.
From: pru@tko.vtt.fi (Ruuska Pekka)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: This is Cooper's test
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:48:23 GMT
Organization: University of Oulu


Cooper's test is a test, in which you run exactly 12 minutes. Your
result is qualified as follows:

2600 metres    satisfactory condition
2800 m         good condition
3000 m	       excellent condition

These are the results expected from 20..30 year old men. For women
of the same age, 200 metres less is required. For people of 30..40
years of age 200 metres less is considered as satisfactory condition.

This test is very widely used in my home country, in schools for instance.
Almost everybody has tried it at least once in their life. Only active
sportsmen are able to do more than 3500 metres in that test, and I think
that 3200..3400 metres might be the best possible result for most people.

But this is only my personal view, and I would be happy to get some facts
about this matter.

Pekka Ruuska
From: karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:46:59 GMT
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.running

In rec.running, mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:

> You should not be doing a long run like this every week.  If you are
> following Galloway's technique, then after your long run reaches 12
> miles, increase by 2 miles every 2 weeks.  Your last long run should
> be at least 3 weeks before the marathon.

Actually I should have said I was averaging one extra mile per week.
I was adding 2 miles every other week.  When I reached 16 miles,
then I kept the short weekend run to 14 miles.  Maybe that was too much?
The first 18 mile run was very hard, so instead of going 20 miles on
my next long run (2 weeks later), I did another 18 mile.  Again it was
very hard - it didn't feel any better at all.  Well, 2 weeks later,
I went for 20 miles, but I flat out died so I walked after 18.
Even the walking hurt my legs (mostly the quads).  I had started at
6:30 am and the weather was overcast.  I hardly broke a sweat, but
I used my water bottle which I filled up at a water fountain.

> A long run produces cumulative muscle damage that takes about 2 months to 
> heal.  However, the adaptation that results is also quite long-lasting. 
> I do my last long run 2 months before the marathon without any loss of
> conditioning.

Does it matter how hard you run those long runs?  As I said, I slowed
to 9 min miles just to see if I could do the 20.  In the beginning,
I felt like I was walking - it was soooo slow.  Some people have said
that they have a hard time slowing down.  Is it because you are using
different muscles?

Karl Watanabe
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu (Joseph Seeley)
Subject: Re: Painful Heels
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:07:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.020833.28417@informix.com> gingerk@informix.com (Ginger Kelly) writes:
>
>The problem I have is that my feet, primarily the heels, have been getting
>sorer and sorer over the past 3 months.  It started as an annoyance that 
>disappeared after 5 minutes or so, but it has gotten to be very painful.
>In fact, periodically throughout the day I will get sharp, excrutiating
>pains that last for 5 seconds or so, for no apparent reason. I tried laying
>off for 3-4 days at a time, but I didn't notice any improvement from the
>layoff, so I resumed training.  

When do you notice the pain the most?  If it is right after waking up or
after sitting at a desk for awhile, it might be heel spurs.  These are bony
deposits that build up where the plantar fasciia (the thick rubber band from
the ball of your foot to the heel) may be pulling away from your heel.

Or, it might be plantar fasciitis, with which I have no experience and so
cannot recall the treatment.

Get yourself a sportsmedicine book.  I have one I like called, I think,
Sportsmedicine, by Taylor and Taylor, put out by a publisher here in
Champaign, IL (it's either Human Kinetics or one of its divisions, like
Leisure Press).  It describes a wide variety of injuries, how to diagnose
them, possible home remedies, and when to take yourself to professional
care.  (Alternatively, go to a library.)

Both plantar fasciitis and heel spurs should be taken very seriously.  Also,
you could have some other condition that hasn't popped into my mind.  I'm
no expert on injuries, despite my vast experience.

Joseph Seeley	| seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu
		| seeley / cca / cerl
From: paul@eye.com (Paul B. Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Injury risk using a treadmill?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:24:23 GMT
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

In article <1992Sep27.215233.109209@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> rm0b@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROGELIO MACIAS-ORDONEZ) writes:
>Hi,
>    I am a new reader of rec.running and new also in a country where weather
>won't let you run outside for several days. This is why I have used a
>treadmill machine for the first time in my life. But I have been feeling some
>strange pain I hadn't had before on the outer side of my left knee.
>    Does anyone know if ther is something to be aware of when using this
>machines?
>
Rogelio-

I've used a treadmill during the winters for the last couple of years in order
to keep my weekly miles up.  As far as I know, treadmill running by itself is
not harmful, but IMPE (In My Painful Experience) it _can_ hurt you if you don't
watch out for a couple of common-sense things:

Definitely _warm_up_thoroughly_ before putting 5-6 fast miles on the treadmill.
Don't trudge through the cold/snow/dark of Bethlehem and immediately jump on a
treadmill -- your legs will be too tight, and injury can quickly follow.

The other thing is that treadmill running and road running are (I think) pretty
different animals.  I always feel like the treadmill works my lungs while the
road works my legs.  If you plan to do both, be careful about placing too much
confidence in the miles you've logged on the treadmill.  I wouldn't recommend
putting in weekly miles on a treadmill and then going for long road-runs on the
weekends for example.  This was my 'training plan' to get in shape for a
marathon early this spring, and what it did for me was to give me a nice case
of ITB that sidelined me _completely_ for 10 weeks!.

Just my opinion...

-- 
Paul B. Booth  (paul@eye.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY  14850    voice: (607)257-1381
                                                             fax: (607)257-7335
From: stieger@cco.caltech.edu (Ronald David Stieger)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Etonic Stable Airs
Date: 6 Oct 1992 18:20:26 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

<AGRGB@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:

>I'm just doing a little opinion shopping. Anyone out there running in any
>of the Etonic Stable Air shoes (Street Fighter, Pro, Plus)? It's been a long
>time since I've run in Etonics and I'm tempted (after my recent injuries) to
>go back to them.

I recently bought a pair of Stable Air Lites for cross country races, and
I think they're great.  Probably the best shoes I've ever worn for cross
country.  Actually, they seem to be better for running on grass than pavement/
concrete, though.    I haven't done any road runs in them, but in a race last
Saturday (mostly grass, but pavement in some parts and a choice between the
two in many places) they felt much better on the grass.  So far I've only run
three races in them, so I don't know how long they last (hopefully for a long
time).


-- 
--Ron Stieger                      **** JUST VOTE NO. ****
  stieger@cco.caltech.edu
"For some, it's simply something you wear around your neck. Just a chain.
It means a lot more than that to me."--Michael W. Smith, "Cross of Gold"
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: What are "franchise" shoes?
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:13:45 GMT

>	Saucony is attempting to develop its own reasonably priced
>	"franchise" shoe, similar to the Asics Saga and Nike Icarus...
>So what the heck is a "franchise" shoe?

I take "franchise shoe" to mean the shoe that makes the company.  Ie. their
best selling shoe that fits most of the people, is reasonably priced, and
is for the average runner.  They sort of have the concept that you build
a basic good quality shoe, and then you build your whole line around it,
adding specialized features in other shoes at greater cost.  For Nike this
would be the Icarus or Pegasus.  Nothing very fancy, but a fine shoes for
the majority of runners without special problems requiring special technology
(like lots of motion control, lots of flexibility, very light weight for racing,
pumps, four wheel antilock brakes, passenger side airbags, etc.)  The franchise
shoe is to the shoe company what the Accord is to Honda, a middle of the road
set of tradeoffs that is right for the largest number of people.
Tom
From: quinn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael J. Quinn)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Qualifying Time for Boston
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:52:58 GMT
Distribution: rec.running
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Oct2.204709.19935@schbbs.mot.com> p0035c@email.mot.com (Deena Snell) writes:
>Does anyone know what the qualifying times for the Boston Marathon are for
>a female, age 24 and a male, age 36 or where you can get a copy of what 
>the qualifying times are?

Boston Marathon
==================
The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots day (3rd monday in April).
For an application send a SASE (business size) to:

        Boston Athletic Association Boston Marathon
        P.O. Box 1992
        Hopkington, MA 01748

The qualifying times are:
 
 Age   Men   Women
18-34  3:10  3:40
35-39  3:15  3:45
40-44  3:20  3:50
45-49  3:25  3:55
50-54  3:30  4:00
55-59  3:35  4:05
60-64  3:40  4:10
65-69  3:45  4:15
70+    3:50  4:20

A couple of marathons held just before the cutoff date for applications:

27 Feb, Pensacola, Blue Angel Marathon, 904-452-4391.
6 Mar, Aberdeen MD, Last Train to Boston Marathon, 301-661-6099.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: Marathon Leg Pain
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:19:39 GMT

Fellow Netting Runners,

I'm training for the NY Marathon, my first.  After 10M of intervals or 
long runs of 20M or so, I can feel some minor pain on my lower tibia.  
this would last 2 to 5 non-running days, depending on how much sleep I 
can get.  This pain can be detected by pressing on the in-side of the 
leg along the "edge" of the tibia.  This problem seems to be more 
prominent when I'm not getting enough sleep (~6hr/weekday average).
Hope I can get my idea across here.  

I'm wondering if this is normal and would like to hear advise, suggestions, 
and similar experiences.  Is this symptom on injury or just normal stress?

I'm an "pain-free-running-advocate", so I usually stop running and swim
until the pain eased.

Backgroud:
	Active all the time before started running.
	On and off running for 2 yrs, 2nd yr included versity Tennis
	Serious running for 1.5 yrs.
	No had major injury or sickness.  Never operated or hospitalized.
	 60M + 2-3M swim    /wk		for 1/2 of the Summer.
	~40M + 2-5M swim    /wk		since academic year started.
	    longrun of 20M  /wk
	1/2 Marathon PR:  1:24:29	9/20/92

Happy running and Thank you all,
Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)        hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
From: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu (Siddarth Subramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: What's a good result in Cooper's test ?
Date: 5 Oct 1992 15:12:12 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct5.155446.24278@ousrvr.oulu.fi> pru@tko.vtt.fi (Ruuska Pekka) writes:
>
>Can anyone tell, what are the average results of healthy, young men and
>women in Cooper's test ? 

Pardon my ignorance but what is Cooper's test?

-- 

Siddarth Subramanian          INTERNET: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu
Austin, Texas                 UUCP:     uunet!cs.utexas.edu!siddarth
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kevin_mcentee@taligent.com (Kevin McEntee)
Subject: Nike AirSpan II ?
Organization: Taligent
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:23:47 GMT

Folks,

I've got about 250 miles on a pair of Nike AirSpanII shoes.  This is my first
pair of running shoes that I bought at a running store and so I'm wondering if
others on the net have had them and how long I can expect them to last?  They
are a little bit worn on the toe and heel and not as soft as they used to be but
otherwise seem to be holding up well.  I have not injured myself while wearing
them.

Any experiences with these shoes you would like to share?

Thanks,
Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: ws1c!ws1c.uucp%rocky.dnet@gte.com (Andrea Preciado)
Subject: I want to subscribe
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:28:25 -0400
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I would like to subscribe to this newsgroup or if there is a 
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Thank you
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: edd711ysft@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Shoes are driving me crazy!
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:08:11 GMT

Although you are all probably sick of requests like this, I'm new to the scene
and am after any information on purchasing new shoes.
 
A bit about myself; I've been running for 4 years, I run around the 37 minute
mark for 10k, 80 for 21k, I haven't tried a marathon yet but its comming, 
my last set of shoes was Brooks Enterprise (which I found excellent), my feet 
are narrow so brands like New Balance blister my feet, I have a light frame 
and prefer a well padded, high heel.

I've had a look at the market here in Australia and I'm bordering on insanity.
What can anyone tell me about the new 'top-range' shoes. Price doesnt really
apply if they are generally a good shoe.
Could anyone with experience or word on the following shoes (or any other
suggestions) please contact me.

Puma Disc System
Nike Air Hurarchie (?, sorry, even the spelling has got me confused)
Brooks Beasts
Asics
Saucony Grid
Etonic

Any information from you would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks in advance, Stuart White (Melbourne, Victoria)
From: jennings@cl.bull.fr (Philip Jennings)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Running gear by mail order
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:53:28 GMT
Reply-To: jennings@cl.bull.fr (Philip Jennings)

I have been asked to summarise the replies to my question about getting running gear by mail order
from the U.S.
The company whose name I quoted doesn't appear to exist (Runner's Supply in San Diego CA), however
another name has been given to me :
Road Runner Sports, 6310 Nancy Ridge Drive, San Diego CA  Tel: (619).455-0558/457-4445.
I've called them to get a copy of their catalogue, and they claim to have dealt with orders from
abroad before. If there's any interest then I'll post again once I've ordered (and received)
something from them.
In the meantime, I would still be interested to hear about any simliar companies in the U.S. (I did
not intend to limit my search to the San Diego area !)
Thanks,

Philip JENNINGS		<P.Jennings@frcl.bull.fr>
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 16:10:17 GMT

Karl Watanabe writes:
>My problem is I am running out of legs after 16 miles.  I have done
>3 18 mile runs, but I can't seem to go further because after 16 miles,
>my legs feel like s..t!  I tried slowing down to 9 min miles (just
>to see if that would make a difference) and my legs felt worse than
>at 8 min miles.  I was wondering if I just don't have the ability
>to run a marathon. 

On long runs, I usually pass through a couple of hard threshholds.  I have a 
rough spot when I pass my daily average run.  My body says "what, I have to
go longer than 7 miles?"  Then I get a second wind and go pretty easily until
I get in the range of my longest recent run.  It is quite hard punching through
that barrier and doing the extra 1 or 2 miles additional.  Anything beyond that
you should expect to be very very hard.  So if this is what you are experiencing,
I would say it is normal.

If what you are experiencing is a complete inability to punch through a
barrier, perhaps you need to be more rested for your long run.  I would try
not running at all the day before your long run.  You need to do kind of a
mini taper to get ready for a long one.  Run very easily the day after the long
run (say a real slow 4 miles).   I would also not try to do a long run every
week.  Once every two weeks is pleanty and will assure you are recovered from
the last one before you try it again.  Go only about 11-13 on the off week.

If none of the above works, throw in several walking breaks during your long
run to save some energy for the part beyond 18-20.  Perhaps try cutting back
the distance or intensity of your week day runs so you are even fresher for
the long one.  Experiment with more high carbo foods several days before your
long run.  Make sure dehydration is not the problem.  Try getting a friend to
join you for the last x miles of your long run.

Some combination of these should help you punch through your 18 mile barrier.

Good luck,
Tom