HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:57:20 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <kbdnh8p.tcox@netcom.com>, Thomas Cox writes:

 T> >>A 19 year old nutcase was shot after she attacked a cop with a machete
 T> >>after breaking into the Chancellor's home in Berkeley.
 T> 
 T> >I am bothered by the question: "Why did they have to shot her?"
 T> 
 T> > [...] As the
 T> >papers reported she was under five and half feet and weighed about 100
 T> >pounds. She was by all accounts armed with a machete.
 T>   [...]
 T> >She wasn't a threat to anyone's life in that situation.
 T> 
 T> 	Good point.  Plenty of opportunity to wait, talk, and let
 T> 	things calm down.  Maybe go get some tear gas on the side. 
 
 I haven't read the previous messages, but the statement that 'she wasn't a 
 threat to anyone's life' seems not totally true. Anyone with a machete can
 kill, even if they're under 100 pounds. Maybe the cop should have used mace
 or his nightstick. But when things go fast and people become scared, they 
 don't think logically. The cop did the thing he probably had been trained
 for the most: he took out his gun. His basic reaction might have been
 machete = blade, blade = deadly, deadly force = use gun. And that he did..
 Also, most people tend to aim for the center of the mass when shooting any-
 thing, so I think he (the police officer) didn't mean to kill her, he was
 just following his basic instinct (no pun intended). A person trained in 
 a different way would have used the nightstick or the mace.
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:56:28 GMT

In article <2Zj-mt-@engin.umich.edu> cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.213442.17133@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>In article <10420@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>>He *was* head o' the secret police for several years, it just may be
>>>possible that he's had some meaningful empty hand training. Ya just
>>>never know...
>>
>>	I'll STILL kick his fuckin' ass.  Lemme AT `im...
>>
>
>What about those guys wearing the suits and sunglasses?

	HA!  Figures... gotta have a ream of goons to do his fighting for
	him... wimp.... pussy....  <grumble mumble slinks under a nearby rock>
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Styles in Bloodsport?
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 12510005@hplsla.hp.com, natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard) writes:
>
>
>  and what style imitates
>a monkey fliping around the ring?  

Your gonna hate this...but it's Monkey Style.  You don't see it much in
the states.

> I could identify the
>two Fung fu stylists,  but was there actually an Akidoka
>wearing hakima fighting in the quick fight sceans?  Was
>the big guy wearing a loin cloth supposed to be a sumo
>wrestler or is this a Somaian art?

Yea, Somaian art...I forget the name of the style.

You should check out the internationals sometime.  All kinds
of styles show up.  You see some very strage stuff.




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schwab@ariel.mathematik.uni-kl.de (Hartmut Schwab)
Subject: RE: Seoi Nage 
Keywords: Judo, Seoi Nage
Reply-To: schwab@mathematik.uni-kl.de
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:04:14 GMT

In my last post, I said, that Seoi Nage with Tori beeing on both
knees is not legal in tournaments.

This in NOT true.

Sorry for this mistake.

I yesterday had a talk to a referee. So Seoi Nage on both knees is 
legal. But it is punished, if Tori is dropping to his knees in 
order to prevent Uke doing an attack. So if Tori is in front in
the match and wants to hold his advantage until the time is over
and therefore is always dropping on his knees without throwing, so 
that Uke can not attack, then these actions are punished.

Hartmut Schwab
schwab@mathematik.uni-kl.de
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: help with soft arts?
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:10:12

In article <16852AC1D.R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU writes:

   From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
   Organization: The University of Akron
   Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:14:21 GMT
   Lines: 4

	  I enjoy the soft arts more than the harder styles. As a matter
   of personal opinions, which style do the readers feel is the best soft
   style?

--------
	Why, the one with the "best" teacher!

	I personally find Bagua to be the most aesthetically pleasing MA, in
terms of interesting movement. But a skilled kenjutsuka moves with amazing
gracefulness, and I've seen "external" Chinese straight sword forms which were
also incredible combinations of gracefulness, power and acrobatics.

	Besides, everyone knows that soft stylists couldn't fight their way
out of a sealed Cool Whip container :-)

	Incidentally, for those who were interested, I'm studying Taiji in
Wheaton, Md, under Tim Lee. He doesn't count as a master, and he doesn't
emphasize "combat", but I enjoy his classes, and his technique looks pretty
good to me. He's an instructor at Tai Yim Kung-Fu.
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: An ex-boxer and lurker wishes to comment...
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:30:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23626
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <0wsHqB5w165w@ledge.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> bhendrix@ledge.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Brian Hendrix) writes:
>I've been following these posts on boxing and the argument as to whether 
>or not it is a martial art.  While I only boxed for 4.5 years, at a 
>low-amateur level (as a teenager) I would like to throw in my two cents.  
>This isn't meant to put-down or flame anybody, but rather to add a few 
>data points from a different perspective.  Please forgive any errors in 
>the following, especially with respect to other martial-arts.  

[excellent commentary deleted]

Thanks, Brian, for an informative, well thought out article.
I've stayed out of this one 'til now.  But at my dojo, 
boxers were well respected.  Several of my fellow black belts
trained with some, and we had boxers come to train with us from time to time.

Two bits of advice I heard many times over the years apply:

"*Never* try to match hands with a boxer" and
"Fight *your* fight, not his"

We were always taught not to get sucked into an opponent's game plan, but
to force him into yours.  The answer to the question,
"will a boxer/judoka/wrestler/karateka/etc beat
a boxer/judoka/wrestler/karateka/etc?" is simple.
The better fighter will win, and they will win because they are able
to maneuver their opponent into fighting on their terms, taking advantage
of their strengths and their opponent's weaknesses.

A TKD person will beat a boxer if they can keep him out of punching
range and nullify his advantage in hand techniques, while using powerful
kicks to slow him down.  A better boxer might beat that TKD person
by getting inside, perhaps absorbing some punishment, then using his 
strong infighting abilities.  An Army grunt might beat them
both by staying out of range and calling in an air strike :-)

>It saddens me when someone says:  "Art X is useless, 'cause I can just
>kick and not let the guy get within range."

Yeah.  This reminds me of the whole thread about "Spinning kicks
are useless because I'll just push his buttocks and send him flying."
*Please* let's not start that one again...

>It especially saddens me 
>when someone tries to say "Art X isn't really a martial art, but my art 
>is a *real* martial art."

There's a definite pro-Eastern bias in the martial arts.
We are generally pretty good in this newsgroup about 
respecting one another's arts, and avoiding the
"My Kung Fu is better than Your Kung Fu" kind of crap.
But for some reason Boxing seems fair game.  I don't know why.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Boxing and Kicks 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:04:49 +0000


In article <1992Aug31.143919.13793@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu writes:

>
>
>Well, my sparring partner and I perform one round feet & hands and one round
>just hands in series for about an hour and a half per bout -- seems like good
>training.  He has somewhat of an advantage when we go hands on hands (most
>boxers he fights say he has *very* fast hands), but when we kick, he typically
>can never touch me unless I do something adventurous or just plain stupid.  He
>can basically do nothing against my constant shin kicks, and indeed, I have
>found these to cause him to leave his head inexcusably (by his own standard)
>open.
>
>I've never fought with a a professional boxer, but I sincerely doubt there is
>much to do against a good low-line kicker when all you have is your hands.
>I have been very effective with these, and I'm not even very good at them yet.
>
This tends to bear out my own experience.  As long as the kicks are
low level, the boxer is at a disadvantage.  High kicks though are a
very different matter.

By the way, I also found that most boxers were much quicker on their
feet than most traditional martial artists.

Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:24:07 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Aug26.213442.17133@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <10420@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>He *was* head o' the secret police for several years, it just may be
>>possible that he's had some meaningful empty hand training. Ya just
>>never know...
>	I'll STILL kick his fuckin' ass.  Lemme AT `im...

I'd love to see it happen, Andy, but I'm afraid we can't allow that.
Bush is assasination-proof, remember?

DAN QUAYLE (sp?)

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu

From: eric@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Eric Tend)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:36:11 GMT
Subject: Rapid Fire & Jackie Chan
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


In the latest Brandon Lee film RAPID FIRE, did anyone else notice several
blatant stunt ripoffs inspired from Jackie Chan films??  I did read
somewhere that Brandon Lee is a fan of his.

A few standouts include :

     1. The motorcycle scene with the baddie straddling while going through
	several glass cabinets --> from POLICE STORY 1.

     2. The 2nd to the last baddie kicks Brandon up against a wire fence and
	he bounces off and counters in one continuous motion --> from
	THE PROTECTOR.

--Eric--

Anyone know when POLICE STORY 3 is coming to the Bay Area?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Cornish Wrestling & Judo
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:00:34 GMT

I've notice that photos of Cornish wrestling around 1900 show them
wearing heavy jackets that look a lot like Judo tops.  This leads to
a couple questions:

1.  Who used these jackets first?
2.  Could sailors/travellers from Cornwall have influenced Kano's
    choice of gi?  Or vice versa?
3.  Are there any books on Cornish Wrestling (by the way, I've seen
    this described in Normandy as Gaelic Wrestling)?

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:52:06 EDT
From: Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU <GMS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
 <1992Aug25.233444.2057@gtephx.UUCP>

I agree with the idea (that someone stated here) of uke offering only
enough resistence for nage to learn to execute the technique effectively.

Of course, this assumes that the uke is of higher rank (and therefore
instructing) the nage.  With a beginner I would offer no resistance at
all -- since they have not learned the mechanics of posture, relaxation, etc.
that are necessary for proper technique execution.

As nage progresses, I will offer more and more resistance -- endeavoring
to become more realistic in my attack.  Nage (as per increasing skill)
will still be able to use my force against me, without unduly hurting me.

I'll also point out that this requires considerable skill on uke's
part.  I've had some beginning students (who do not understand Ki)
use too much muscle.  An experienced uke will give rather than resist to
the point of injury.

gerry santoro
academic computing/speech communication
penn state university
aikido kokikai
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jmw1@ra.msstate.edu (John Westerburg)
Subject: Stretching Exercises
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:57:17 GMT



   What are some good execises to increase flexibility in the legs?
I'd sure like to be able to get my side kicks up a little higher without
pulling a groin muscle....(ouch)
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:49:27 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

The story being told in the local press is that the intruder:

* Maded a forced entry using a blowtorch in some way (to cut
  burglar bars?)

* Had a machete and attacked, or offered to attack, the cop.

* Was (they discovered after the shooting) a well-known local 
  political agitator who had been arrested numerous times, 
  including a farily recent arrest for explosives, and who 
  kept some kind of journal that included the names of people
  she didn't much care for.

* The cop had a record of being out on the ragged edge of locally
  acceptable police conduct.

Perhaps all we'll ever know about the shooting itself is what Officer
Chew (no relation) cares to tell.  But thus far it looks like a 
situation where a lot of armed private citizens, defending their homes, 
would have pulled a trigger.  If you think a machete isn't a deadly 
weapon, I refer you to the neighborhood escrima parlor.

Those are the facts being given publicity, though something else 
important might come out as the shooting is investigated.  I don't
have enough facts to really form an opinion as to whether it was a
righteous shooting, but I think it's an understandable one. Certainly
I don't think breaking into the university chancellor's residence 
and waving a machete around is much of a contribution to either the 
academic or the political dialogue, even by Berkeley standards.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:02:50 GMT
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <3582@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.144754.7929@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>>seen people defend judo as a fighting art because one can add the 
>>atemi and other goodies left out of sport judo to make it a more
>
>	You don't need all that stuff.  I can win fights with just 
>throwing techniques.
>
>	Especially against people who stand on one leg. :-) :-) 

Yes, people will stay still and stand on one leg to let you
throw.
From: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil (Eric Westreich)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: OPEN MA TOURNAMENT MONTEREY CA
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:08:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Originator: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil


SATURDAY   OCTOBER 3, 1992

NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL, MONTEREY, CA

VETERANS CLASSIC OPEN MARTIAL ARTS TOURNAMENT

OPEN TO ALL STYLES

TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR: KEEBOM KANG

10:00   FORMS

12:00   WEAPONS KATAS

12:30   MARTIAL ARTS DEMONSTRATIONS

1:00    SPARRING

SPECTATOR FEE: $2.00

$25 ONE EVENT, $30 TWO EVENTS ($5.00 DISCOUNT FOR REGISTRATION
                               BEFORE SEP 25, 1992)

FULL SAFETY GEAR REQUIRED: HEADGEAR, MOUTHPIECE, HAND PADS, FOOT PADS, GROIN CUP

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:

		DAVE DAMPIER: (408) 649-4559
			      383F BERGIN DR.
			      MONTEREY, CA 93940
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: blake@nevada.edu (Rawlin Blake)
Subject: Re: Aikido in Las Vegas, NV
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:08:49 GMT

In article <ZTRcqB1w164w@admiral.uucp> flash@admiral.uucp (Gordon Wormser)
 writes:
>From: flash@admiral.uucp (Gordon Wormser)
>Subject: Aikido in Las Vegas, NV
>Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:04:22 GMT
>Anyone know of an Aikido dojos in the Las Vegas, NV area.  Thanks.

There is an Aikido Club at UNLV. It meets in MPE508 5:30 - 7:20 Monday and 
Wednesday.

---
Rawlin Blake    blake@nevada.edu

No news is bad newsreader :-)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rschoen@laborixsai.mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Reinhard Schoen)
Subject: Re: Olympic results ?
Keywords: fool makes fun of typo
Reply-To: rschoen@laborixsai.mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Reinhard Schoen)
Organization: University of Ulm, SAI, Germany
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:39:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.033506.28961@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>,
rhuynh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Richard Huynh) writes:

|> Does anyone know the results for Tea Kwon Do at the Olympics ?

Yes. Japan won with three cups of green tea,
India was second with a great darjeeling first flush,
the USA team was disqualified for taking three lumps of sugar.


Sorry couldn't resist the temptation.
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: All T'ai Chi Teachers are Bogus?
Date: 27 Aug 1992 06:55:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

In a style of poor or outright incorrect attribution, jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP 
	(James H. Coombs) writes:

  +In article <25790@dog.ee.lbl.gov> TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
  +>robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
  +
  +>>I know that the sad truth that I just written will anger a lot of 
  +>>people who think they have learned the "real" thing. So, if you
  +>>don't believe me, just forget about what I have said.
  +
  +I see: either agree with me or just shut up?!  How convenient.
  +
  +As for "the 'real' thing," there is no such thing.  T'ai Chi masters
  +understand that.  --Jim

Sorry Jim, but neither Michael nor I wrote the above statement that 
you commented on.  It was written by an L. Chan to which I had 
commented.

Terry "I always thought the Real Thing was Coca-cola, after all,
           it's trademarked" Chan
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov                  This is illegal, but I know jujitsu
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory                         so I don't care.
Berkeley, California  USA  94720                      
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Karate Styles
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 02:39:49 GMT


Having studied TKD for almost 9 years, I'm looking for something
different.  I would try Aikido, but there are no classes here.  I'd
like to know which major traditional karate styles are unblemished 
by time and haven't become too soft.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: help with soft arts?
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:11:22 GMT

In article <16852AC1D.R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU writes:
>       I enjoy the soft arts more than the harder styles. As a matter
>of personal opinions, which style do the readers feel is the best soft
>style?
> 

	Meaningless question, so sorry.  Investigate many styles and decide
	for yourself which one best suits your predilections.

	-Andy V.
From: jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:32:23 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

SCA vs. Fencing:  The previous reponses have dealt with metal weapons fighting
styles, not with the rattan stuff.

Rattan advantage: Much closer to full-out fighting than fencing (or karate.)
Rattan disadvantage: Big bruises, as opposed to small ones.
Rattan advantage: Easy to find substitute weapons.  (Bar Stools!)
Rattan disadvantage: Not as good as escrima.

Cheers,
John
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:25:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <2Zj-mt-@engin.umich.edu> cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.213442.17133@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>In article <10420@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>>He *was* head o' the secret police for several years, it just may be
>>>possible that he's had some meaningful empty hand training. Ya just
>>>never know...
>>
>>	I'll STILL kick his fuckin' ass.  Lemme AT `im...
>
>What about those guys wearing the suits and sunglasses?

In the plan to kick Bush's ass (which I'm not advocating because I
_know_ that the spooks are writing me up as a write this  :-)), those
"guys wearing the suits and sunglasses" are known as Minor Technical
Difficulties(tm).

--
David "Jester" Winters
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu *OR* winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

	Illigitimi non carborundum
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mcleod@instant.Colorado.EDU (Bob Mcleod)
Subject: Tang So Do groups in Boulder/Longmont CO?
Reply-To: mcleod@instant.Colorado.EDU (Bob Mcleod)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:03:53 GMT

Greetings,

As the subject line indicates, I'm looking for a TSD group in the Boulder 
area.  I know there's a group on campus, but I can't find them in any
organizational directories.  I'm interested in groups that are either 
100% TSD or organizations that teach several styles (TSD included).

Any help will be most appreciated.  Please respond by e-mail at the
above address or post if this is difficult.

Thanks in advance,

Bob McLeod.