HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knecht@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (knecht roland)
Subject: Re: Another error?
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 14:19:02 GMT

Hi!

Why just talk about the movies?
Take the comic adaption of ROTJ: The scene where Luke is trapped and
brought to Vader on Endor. Vader activates Luke's Lightsaber. First the
saber has a red blade but even more funny Vader holds the saber the wrong
way, so the blade comes out of its rear end. If the saber would have
worked correctly (blade at the right end), Vader could go as Luke's mother
as well :-)

Happy New Year!

Roland Knecht

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bdwest@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (ALIS)
Subject: Re: New Star Wars Movies
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 29 Dec 1992 11:07 EST  

In article <1992Dec25.213511.2795@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, greenie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes...
>In article <ll36484@pro-smof.cts.com>, wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!rfletcher@cactus.org (Robert Fletcher) writes:
>>   You must have missed the one message that was from some guy, who knows a
>> person, who is working on the sound stage, where Star Wars is now being
>> filmed. ( not too clear...uh )
> 
>Which Star Wars?  Is that fatso Mark Hamil in it?  (No offense to Mark, but
>he's starting to look like Scotty :-)
> 
>Andy, green@ids.net

If there are any underway I hope they don't use Zahns stuff about anti 
force creatures.  The whole idea is stupid.  I stopped reading the book 
because of it.  Not to mention the cloned crazed jedi knight.  And having Han, 
Luke, and Lando give up their commisions is dumb.  And having a fleet of 
Mon Calamri ships be destroyed because of the way the see is dumb. That flaw 
in Mon Calamri perception should have been dicovered by the Allaince or the 
Empire long ago.  And Mara Jade obsessed with Skywalker is dumb too.
I'd rather see a revival of Boba Fett, angry with Skywalker for blemishing 
his reputation and killing one of his best employers.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bowman@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Carl Bowman)
Subject: Re: Lucas the literary genius?
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:20:10 EST

Julie asks whether Lucas should be considered a great writer.  I would like
to ask Julie if she feels Star Wars should not be considered as potentially
great work because it is A) science fiction, B) a movie and not to be taken
seriously, or C) not taught in universities where the only real culture
exists anyway.  I agree that it is too early to judge Star Wars on its literary
merit, but I sense a bit of cultural bias.  Gone With the Wind, surely
considered a literary masterpiece, was only a movie at one time.  Casablanca
was NEVER, not even by the producers and directors, considered anything 
special.  These movies became classics because they had loyal followers who
kept the memory alive and introduced these movies to new audiences.
 
I even submit that the only reason that certain items become classics is 
it is 'legitimized' by universities.  Try to get Joe Average to go to a
Shakespeare(sp?) play, or opera.  BUUUUUZZZZZZZ!  Wrong number!  Don't want
to sit through that trash!  (I actually tried that experiment many, many 
times, so I know I'm right).

Remember, most movies start off as scripts, and scripts are considered a form 
of literature.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: roy@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Luke uses the Dark Side (was: Favorite moments)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:00:05 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1211@blue.cis.pitt.edu> hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell) writes:
>                  emotional moment for me.  I beleive that in those final
>                  moments, Luke turned to the Dark Side (this is just my
>                  opinion), you could even see the hatred in his face as
>                  he stood over a defeated Darth Vader just before he looked
>                  at Darth Vader's arm where he saw how much like his father
>                  he had become.  That was the point at which he turned back
>                  to the Light Side.  The Emperor even knew that he had
>                  turned, that's why he was laughing and also why he became
>                  so enraged when Luke threw away his sabre and declared
>                  his triumph.

Andy,

I agree with you.  Let's start a thread here.  Luke did use hatred at that
point and channelled that hatred and into power from the Dark Side to aid
him in the final moments of that battle.  Let's see who agrees or disagrees
and why.

The points in favor of this stance include:

   1) The dramatic music that played when Luke was hacking and slashing.
   2) The fact that Luke was hacking and slashing blindly and uncontrollably.
   3) The *anger* and *rage* in the word NO!, as spoken by Luke.
   4) The realization by Luke of just how much alike he and his father were.
   5) The laughing of the emperor (he could feel the Dark Side in Luke).
   6) The displeasure shown my the emperor when Luke declared that he
      is a Jedi, like his father before him.

These points all paint a pretty convincing picture.  Feel free to use scripts
or the ROTJ book to backup your points.

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: knecht@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (knecht roland)
Subject: Star Wars RPG - Second Edition
Summary: Info to 2nd Edition RPG wanted.
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:48:33 GMT


Hi There!

West End Games published a Second Edition of the Star Wars Role Playing Game.
Question: Is it more than the old RPG + Rules Companion?
          What reasons are there to buy it if you already got all the old
          stuff?

Thanks!

Roland Knecht

-------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I'm swiss, so don't mind my english.... :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: comptec92023@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Meaningless dialogue
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:20:50 GMT

Meaningless dialogue
ANH C-3PO  "...the dammage doesn't look as bad from out
             here."
 Can anyone explain the significance of this useless statement???
When C-3PO and R2 jettison in the escape pod in ANH
C-3PO comments "... the dammage doesn't look as bad fr
From: Michael_Hilgers@k.maus.de (Michael Hilgers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Meaningless dialogue
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 01:26:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.14D/hb

In an article Dan Shoham (shoham@ll.mit.edu) writes:

s>In article <1992Dec26.152050.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
s>comptec92023@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>Meaningless dialogue
>ANH C-3PO  "...the dammage doesn't look as bad from out
>here."
>Can anyone explain the significance of this useless statement???
s>
s>"That's funny, the damage doesn't look as bad from out here."
s>
s>I think this line ties in with another mysterious C3PO statement a short
s>time earlier: "Did you hear that? They've shut down the main reactor.
s>We'll be destroyed for sure. This is madness!".
s>
s>One might ask, why was the main reactor shut down? Well, it wasn't
s>madness :-), the Blockade Runner decided to avoid destruction by
s>(apearing to) surrender. A very sensible thing to do when you have the
s>Rebel's sole copy of the DS plan. Furthermore, the rebels hoped that
s>diplomatic immunity and fear of senatorial action will moderate whatever
s>the Empire had in mind for them. After all, only DV is so bold as to
s>ignore both factors (according to Leia). It was the rebel's bad luck
s>that exactly DV was on the attacking SD.
s>
s>C3PO, not privy to such delicate command decisions is mystified at the
s>decision to shut down the main reactor. Thinking that the BR was too
s>damaged in battle to offer resistance, C3PO was again surprised to find
s>that it has surrendered (nearly) intact.
s>
s>- This is NOT a highly speculative interpertation (unlike most of my
s>posts :]). The only way one can explain the decision to shut down the
s>main reactor, is as a decision to (appear to) surrender. (This brings up
s>the evil of DV who ignore diplomatic norms). C3PO surprise at the low
s>level of damage only reinforces the point that the BR choose not to
s>fight to the end.
s>
s>-- On another level, C3PO may actually be viewed in a favorable light in
s>this incident (uncharacteristic, but not unique). While the rebels hoped
s>diplomatic norms would protect them, the simple minded C3PO actually had
s>the Imperial intentions figured out in his "black and white"
s>understanding of things.
s>
s>- What do you guys think?
s>
s>
s>Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
s>------------------------------------------------------------------------
s>The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.
s>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
s>Lincoln Laboratory
s>244 Wood Street
s>Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
s>Office B-373
s>617-981-3515
s>------------------------------------------------------------------------
It sounds logically to me and seems to be a good explaination of this dialogue.

Michael         michael_hilgers@K.maus.de
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Re: Luke and Leia confusion
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:32:04 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Reply-To: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
X-Posted-From: oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <C0193w.Iut@news.udel.edu>, darkstar@ravel.udel.edu (Jerry Garcia) writes...
>Ben might have wanted
>to train Luke because he wasn't as well hidden as Leia.  Also, Luke may
>have expressed more of an affiliation to the Force at that time.  And we
>are missing the argument that Kenobi may have been acting patriachical!

Or perhaps it was simpler: Kenobi never MET Leia....

--Gallandro

    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Favorite moments ...
From: hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell)
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:00:14 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Keywords: Darth Vader Luke Cremation

In article <9236416.13725@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> winikoff@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael David WINIKOFF) writes:
>No one seems to have mentioned this one yet ...
>
>One of my favorite moments in the trilogy is when Luke cremates
>Darth Vaders remains in ROTJ.
>
>It somehow makes me feel kinda sad for Darth Vader who, despite
>being a bad guy had a sort of integrity and nobility.
[stuff deleted]

Yeah, that's one of my favorites, too.

The rest of my favorite scenes:

From ANH:
		o  The capture and boarding of the rebel ship
		o  Every scene with Ben Kenobi, Darth Vader, and Tarkin
		o  The attack on the Death Star

From TESB:
		o  The Imperial March
		o  The battle for Hoth
		o  The asteroid field
		o  Yoda's reflections on the nature of the Force
		o  Boba Fett!

From RotJ:
		o  The battle at the Sarlacc Pit
		o  Yoda's death :-(
		o  Every scene in which an Ewok got toasted >:->
		o  The point where Darth Vader threatens to turn Luke's
		   sister to the Dark Side all the way thru the point
		   where Darth Vader dies (just the Death Star scenes, not
		   the Endor battle scenes (which were good, too, but not that
		   good)) -- IMHO, the end of the lightsaber duel was the most
		   emotional moment for me.  I beleive that in those final
		   moments, Luke turned to the Dark Side (this is just my
		   opinion), you could even see the hatred in his face as
		   he stood over a defeated Darth Vader just before he looked
		   at Darth Vader's arm where he saw how much like his father
		   he had become.  That was the point at which he turned back
		   to the Light Side.  The Emperor even knew that he had
		   turned, that's why he was laughing and also why he became
		   so enraged when Luke threw away his sabre and declared
		   his triumph.
		o  The funeral pyre of Darth Vader
		o  The appearance of the images of Ben, Yoda, and Anakin to
		   Luke -- The perfect upbeat ending, IMHO.

Andy 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm not insane...just a reasonable facsimile."  | Hummell@vms.cis.pitt.edu
   -- me				           | Andy Hummell     230 DLH 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bdwest@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (ALIS)
Subject: Re: Star Wars RPG - Second Edition
Summary: Info to 2nd Edition RPG wanted.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 29 Dec 1992 10:57 EST  

In article <1992Dec26.004833.10316@ifi.unizh.ch>, knecht@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (knecht roland) writes...
> 
>Hi There!
> 
>West End Games published a Second Edition of the Star Wars Role Playing Game.
>Question: Is it more than the old RPG + Rules Companion?
>          What reasons are there to buy it if you already got all the old
>          stuff?
> 
>Thanks!
> 
>Roland Knecht
> 
>

I only have the second edition and it says you don't need to by it if you 
have the first edition but the second edition is suppose to have included 
more stuff than the first edition in relation to the triology, or explained 
stuff better, or something like that.  I don't have the first edition to 
make any comparisons.  I just started buying this type thing.  Mostly for 
techincal data and to help explain somethings in the movies.  I've never 
been involved in the role playing  but it seems interesting.

Anyone know if there are RPG Star Wars groups/clubs? 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Subject: Re: Favorite SW Moments
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:35:49 GMT

Oops!  Forgot one of my favorite scenes in the last post...

ESB, when the Falcon is entering the asteroid field...

Han:  You said you wanted to be there when I made a mistake.
Leia:  I take it back.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
From: barth@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barth.richards)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Meaningless dialogue
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:28:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T


In article <gsandhu.725433151@unixg.ubc.ca> gsandhu@unixg.ubc.ca (Gary
Sandhu) writes:

>In <1992Dec26.152050.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
>comptec92023@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:

>>Meaningless dialogue
>>ANH C-3PO  "...the dammage doesn't look as bad from out
>>             here."
>> Can anyone explain the significance of this useless statement???
>>When C-3PO and R2 jettison in the escape pod in ANH
>>C-3PO comments "... the dammage doesn't look as bad fr
>
>That part used to bug me, but the 2nd or 3rd time I watched ANH I concluded
>it was poor C-3P0 mistaking the empire's ship for the one he'd just left.
>(since the bad guys' ship had swallowed up the good guys' ship). Hence, it
>was meant to be funny. Ha ha.

Which is further supported by the two lines that follow.  To wit:


     C3PO: "The dammage doesn't look as bad from out here."

     R2D2:  <something incomprehensible>

     C3PO: "Oh."


My translation:


     C3PO: "The dammage doesn't look as bad from out here."

     R2D2: "You're such a schmuck!  That's not our ship!"

     C3PO: "Oh."

-- 
8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
88  Barth Richards                  "Language is a virus from outer space."  88
88  att!ihlpf!barth                           - William S. Burroughs         88
8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: roy@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:24:22 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <1992Dec30.224540.22558@ll.mit.edu> shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.143822.16207@watson.ibm.com> roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com writes:
>>In <1992Dec29.082547.19859@schbbs.mot.com> bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis) writes:
>>>For some reason, the doors close to the area where Darth and Ben were fighting
>>>trapping Darth behind the doors.  ...
>
>It was shut because Luke took a (well aimed) shoot at the control panel, as
>per Han's suggestion.
>
>>As for Darth's lightsaber, this is further proof of a previous, long-lasting,
>>unresolved thread.  Some stated that the non-glowing blade of Ben's saber
>>near the end of one of the duel scene segments (when Ben is backing up,
>>and parrying (sp?) and Darth is taunting him, just before cutting to a
>>different scene) is an indication that Ben was weak in the Force, and it
>>is the Force that powers the lightsaber (or helps to power it).
>
>ONCE AGAIN, it is not the NON-GLOWING of the saber (which I admit may be an
>FX glitch) it is the VISBILE SHORTENING. (And it is not "some stated", it is
>only me. No brave soul had backed me up on that one yet!)
>
>Ben's fighting technique, the music, Darth comment, and the visuals are all
>consistent with a shortening saber.
>
>
>Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.
>
>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>Lincoln Laboratory
>244 Wood Street
>Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
>Office B-373
>617-981-3515
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

No one has backed you up because without 3-D glasses there is no
depth perception, and without depth, what you call a shortening
of a saber blade is more rationally explained as a blade pointed
towards the camera rather than at a profile.  The blade is not shortened.
However, believe what you want.

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joachim_Hoss@k.maus.de (Joachim Hoss)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Star Wars New Movie
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 10:21:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet (Mitglied im IN e.V.)
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.14D/hb

Hi!

A few months ago (In july, I think) there was an ad in a magazine in Berlin,
Germany. It was from Fox Germany and they were lokking for: "...extras for the
Film STAR WARS: The Fall Of The Republic." I don't know wether it was some kind
of Hoax or not.

Joachim Hoss
Cologne, Germany
Joachim_Hoss@k.maus.de
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: trogers@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Lucas the literary genius?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:33:04 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: trogers@yktvmv.vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <7o#@byu.edu> julie@alaska.et.byu.edu (Julie Gritton) writes:
>If people would read Julie's posts more closely, people might stop
>repeating what Julie said.  I distinctly recall saying that the best
>definition of a classic it whether it stands the test of time, and SW
>has not done that yet.  And I don't know about your university, but
>the film classes in my university teach about SW, mainly when they're
>dealing with special effects.  So to that person who said I was
>overawed by academia...if that was the case I would be overawed by SW
>too, right?  I have been a SW fan for years, I have read all the books
>and two of the scripts, I have seen the movies zillions of times and
>read the Han Solo series, the Lando series, etc.  There is nothing in
>SW to even come close to what I get from Shakespeare, whether or not
>Joe Average would agree.  Shakespeare has a timeless genius that
>speaks to every generation.  I have yet to see SW do that.  I know the
>kids in my classes (third grade and up) have no concept of Star Wars
>and would much rather see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.  So far, I
>don't see Star Wars spanning the generations.  When I was their age, I
>was a big Luke fan.  And don't tell me they have to be older to
>appreciate SW.  I think most of us here discovered it when we were
>their age.  They are simply not interested, as much as that may blow
>our minds, and we need to accept that.  I just don't feel the need to
>call SW a literary classic in order to assuage my feelings of
>worthlessness because I like it, the way some of you seem to.
>
>"You could use a good kiss!"           JULIE

Way to go Julie.  Let's end this thread.  The movies and all the 
entertainment value they and everything they have spawned is awesome.  The 
movies are well written with elements from many different styles of 
literature.  This is very true.  However, to be proven literary classics 
will require the test of time.  Also, due to their medium (film) they may 
never be viewed is literature.   They are classic films already and 
American icons. Isn't that enough?  Lucas has proven himself a master of
his medium.  Can't we just live with that?

Regards,
Tom Rogers
roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: s1400070@nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: x-wings??????   why?????
Organization: Laurentian University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:33:18 GMT

     Okay, forgive me if this has already been discussed but --- What the hell
is the advantage of spreading the wings in an X-wing fighter in deep space?  
The engines are close to the pivot point and do not have a new position that
is substantially more efficient than they do when the wings are closed.  
Perhaps the only advantage is the higher degree of laser spread that can be
achieved????.  
     Oh8Jyh yeah, in deep space, we would not be able to hear noise as there is
no air to carry the sound waves.  When you see a passing ship, it would not 
make that vvvvhhisssshhhhh sound... I guess that would make for a boring 
battle scene though.

                                   John