From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Defense of CLI  (there, I changed the subject ... )
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:25:31 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <TOMSTER.92Sep28222039@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, tomster@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Thomas Richard Dibble) writes:
> 
> The example *you* gave, however, is more than just slightly caterring to your
> GUI point of view.  How does 'the first four columns' relate to any real
> filing system?

Go back and re-read the original postings. I didn't give the "first four
columns" example. I was asked, "How often do you select the first four
columns anyway." This was referring to the first four columns in a window
full of icons (which are usually laid out in a grid). 

I was attempting to answer the question asked. I didn't make it up.

> The system 'imposed upon us' by that evil thing DOS by nature has very quick
> short-cuts and casts in it.  The system imposed upon *you* by the Mac UI is
> equally streamlined.

The only "short-cut" built into DOS (or other CLIs) appears to be the wildcard
matching of the "*". That appears to be the singular advantage of the CLI.
This short-cut is unfortunately limited to a rather constrained task. I have
yet to see any other example presented by CLI aficianados.

>    As explained last time, it isn't. With a visual interface, there's little
>    planning. With a CLI, you HAVE to plan to get work done. Experienced CLI
>    users plan a bit faster, and they conform their work conventions to be
>    compatable with the limitations of the CLI in order to AVOID planning.
> 
> Well.  Hm.  Lets see.  I can type 'ds en /s' to sort my directories by
> extension and then by name.  or I can type 'ds' and be asked what I want
> to do.  

Or, you could have an OS that automatically presents you with files sorted
in order, so you don't have to remember obscure commands like 'ds'.

>    Or you could run an "undelete" application on your PC. You miss the point. 
>    if you type 'rm *.c' you can't see the results. You may be unaware you
>    deleted some important file. 
> 
> you will most likely see the listing
> of deleted files go up on your screen.  

Last time I looked at Unix. 'rm' did no such list by default. You probably
can specify a command line option to do it. You'd have to remember that
option.

Subsequently, if did delete a file, and see it come up on your screen
(provided you recognized it from the limited file name), you'd still have
to root around in an undelete command or application to retreive it.

> I do understand and cede at least *part* of your point here, though; this
> recognition comes *after* the file has been deleted, and you have to run
> unerase to get it back again.  On UNIX systems (at least the one at my school)
> I am automatically prompted before *each* file I delete.  This seems counter-
> productive at times, but there is no 'unerase' on our UNIX server.

Ouch. Even more fault-intolerant. Hence you'll get in the habit of typing
"yes" to the prompt, until the day when you habitually type a "yes" response
to something you really didn't want to erase. 

>    > Since your job is (apparently) doing graphics, I am sure that you are far
>    > happier with a GUI. I as a programmer would be VERY unhappy if I just
>    > had a GUI.
> 
>    I have a surprise. I'm a programmer.
> 
> I feel sorry for you, really I do.

I fail to see why.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
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Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy