HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a black belt?
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:07:11 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <BOWERS.92Aug19143826@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>
>It should be pointed out that bueareaucratic gibberish caused Robert
>and his group to be snubbed by the officials in the BKR, and Robert
>tried very hard to get his group recognized by both.  A difficult
>situation.
 You did good except here.  The 300 member BKR broke away from the 1000
 member KFUSA and wants to be the governing body for kendo in the US.
 But the KFUSA is the governing body.  It is a voting member of the IKF
 and the BKR really wishes they were on the IKF board.  The ZNKR and IKF
 continue to include both groups in world events with the hopes that they
 merge in the not too distant future.  I don't think I agree with your
 wording about who is snubbing who maybe it is enough to say that the head
 honchos get real tense when they are arround each other.
 
 I don't know what else Al and I can contribute to this discussion without
 actual mud slinging.  I think that it is nice that he and I are able to
 discuss this and show our different perspectives and remain on speaking 
 terms.  This is a skill I wish the top kendo power would practice more
 often.
 
>I prefer the word "exponent" to "player" (player can have a bad
>connotation in English).  I do not doubt their ability (they beat me
 
 I agree and have still managed to use the term "player" over the
 years.  I think it just sticks in my mind as a very Japanese thing
 to say in English.  So many Japanese University Kenshi use it that
 I have picked it up.  I quess I have just adopted their useage.  Player
 (Are you listening Jonathan?) implies a casual approach to training.
 And I am sure the hard core traditionalist will always winch when they
 hear it used.
-- 
Robert Stroud
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: re: Shao-lin Temple news
Keywords: ???
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:56:55 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.


From exudms Fri Aug 14 14:17:24 1992
From: lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund)
Subject: conflict avoidance
Summary: The Gental Art of Verbal Self Defense
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 22:47:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.145321.5619@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
 lauren@bushmill.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) writes:
>[...]                          I have a question.  Are the principles
>of conflict avoidance/resolution (which is a legitimate field of
>study) taught (semi-)formally in anyone's doj*?

Yes.  As an introduction to this area, we listened to a tape series
called The Gental Art of Verbal Self Defense.  The author also has
a series of books out, the first one starting with the same name.

Haven't read the books, but based on the tape series, highly recommend
any material by this author.  (Sorry, don't have her name on instant
recall, but will find it and follow up if sufficient interest.)

Nate
nlund@kodak.com
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Date: 14 Aug 1992 21:04:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:

  +And I would like to give the proof here if anyone is interested.
  +
  +'ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE BAD' in terms of logic, is:
  +forall x and x = generalization, x is bad.
  +'All GENERALIZATIONS ARE BAD' is a generation and let it be x.
  +Using the rule of universial instantiation, 'ALL GENERALIZATIONS
  +ARE BAD' is bad.
  +So, what does this tell us???
  +Surprised that not too many people have learnt logic before.

Boy!  This thread just keeps getting better and better.  Thanks again
to Stephen Brenner for starting us all off!


Terry ":-)" Chan
--
Berkeley, California                           Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
"A few months ago, I was watching 'Friday Night Videos' and I saw three
 groups in a row with one member who is a client of mine."
                                               -- Sy Sperling
From: doug@celia.UUCP (Doug Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:11:33 GMT
Reply-To: celia!doug@usc.edu (Doug Nichols)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

On the flip side, you might want to try Halberstadt Fencer's Club
in San Fransisco, or one of the other numerous clubs in the city
and area. Some of the best fencing clubs in the country are in the
San Fransisco/San Jose area, Halberstadt being the one I'm most
partial to. They won't teach fencing in the round, both hands during
a single engagement or anything that isn't within your basic fencing
rules o' the game, but you can be taught fencing by some of the best
instructors you can find anywhere in the country.

And I've BEEN to other parts of the country. I've even been to UVA...

Doug Nichols
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Yokomenuchi vs Hook-punch.
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:23:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3479
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug19.020213.3028@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
> So I was wandering how Aikido deals with the "hook" ?

	(Weren't you the guy who was just telling us all about aikido??)

	How about maki-otoshi or  hiji-otoshi?
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 17 Aug 1992 22:16:02 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug17.194949.23115@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.133759.11439@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>>I see him, jump up and try to soccer style *plant left-kick right*
>>boot him into the street.  Rat does a 180, zips back into the storm
>>drain, with me on his heels.  EVERYBODY else goes, what was that!! 
>
>Being in more of a hurry, and convinced that my size gave me an
>overwhelming advantage, I moved first.  With teeth bared and
>growling as ferociously as possible, I made a few quick and
>noisy steps toward the rat.  The idea was that he would see I
>was the tougher rat and run away.

You meanies.

Rats are one of the few members of the animal kingdom with a genuine 
affection for humans, and all they get from us is hatred and abuse.

Sure, in the "wild" they can be nasty, disease ridden, and offensive, 
but when people have to eat garbage and live in sewers, they become
nasty, disease ridden and offensive as well.

So, are we going to start drop-kicking street people into traffic next?

>Instead, old grizzly rat just
>stood his ground.  Worse yet, he started making this horrible,
>loud chittering noise.  Then suddenly, he jumped straight up in
>the air a good 2' and came down running - directly at my ankles.
>Thoroughly unnerved by now, I turned tail and ran like my life
>depended on it.  I don't even know whether he actually chased me
>or it was all a big fake since I didn't look back until I had
>covered half a block or so.

He probably just thought you wanted to play.  One of my rat's favorite
games (may she rest in peace) was to ambush my hand.  After wrestling 
around a bit, my hand would ultimately prevail, and Marti would retreat
to find something else to do for a while.  But in over three years of 
roughhousing, she never drew blood (which is more than you can say for 
most household felines).

In my mind, the only drawback rats have as pets is their rather short
attention span.  But they do make loyal, affectionate, and undemanding
companions.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: An Aikido Question (...what else!)
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:02:00 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <34494@cbmvax.commodore.com> kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:
>As far as techniques for street, we practice several techniques where nage
>actually attacks uke first to provoke a useful response.

I've been wondering about this kind of strategy lately:  should you use
techniques that another art is likely to be better than yours is at countering?
F'rinstance, an aikidoka throwing a jab at a wing chun practitioner.  In
the street, my guess is that you can fairly safely assume that your opponent
will have minimal training in the martial arts, but what if you guess wrong?
How safe is it for an aikidoka or t'ai chi player to throw a punch?

Conversely, how safe is it for a wing chun practitioner to attempt a body
throw?

No offense intended by any inaccuracies I may have committed by naming
specific styles -- please correct me if you must and we can pretend I just
put blanks in instead of actual names.

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 07:09:38 GMT

In article <10345@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>A related subject, to open this up to other folks...
>
>From my current perspective, it looks as if most throwing techniques are
>inherently circular in nature. Comments? Counter-examples? If so, and if
>your style tends to be rather linear in nature, what role do throwing
>techniques occupy in your system?

I don't think of throws as inherently circular.  I think we tend
to *practice* throws that way.  Big, extended, circular motions
are easier to learn, and lots easier on training partners, so we
mostly do throws that way in training and in sport forms.  But in
combat, throws assume a much more linear aspect.  Or at least
the circularity becomes very, very tight.  In a real fight, I am
not throwing just to make my opponent lie down.  Sometimes that's
all you can manage, but it leaves you facing a groundfight with
no particular advantage.  No, what I want to do is drive my
opponent's head (or some other vulnerable piece of anatomy) into
the ground as quickly and with as much force as possible.  It's
a form of striking, really.  It seems to me that the motion that
gets this done best is usually more linear than circular.  Quick
up and down, or better yet, just down - boom.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Summary: Some experience and my initial thoughts on what I saw
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:33:20 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I find the recent discussion of sticky hands principles and such fascinating.

I got some brief initial experience with some of this recently.

This weekend, I had the opportunity to work briefly with a gentleman who 
apparently has some form of Wing Chun training, which he seems to use as his
primary structure, but has incorporated that with some other things.

We didn't spar, just exchanged some ideas about gap closing.  Once he was
in arms reach, his gap closing was fabulous.  He just burst in with a little
ballestra-like movement (step up rear foot, push off lunge) and slammed
into me, pinning my hands down and hitting me.  It was effective and made me
feel completely helpless.  I might sidestep or back off if given enough time,
but the explosiveness of the movement was impressive.  In sparring, it probably
could have led to a finishing combination.  

It seemed a poor choice if started at slightly longer range, though, where I 
could sidestep the lunge and catch him coming past, with a hook.  It seemed 
like he couldn't see hooks coming too well because he was so focused on the 
linear centerline principles, and expected control of the center to keep the 
hooks away.  He had a great short punch, but I think didn't 
really understand the function of the boxing jab too well (I guess because it 
is a completely different philosophy of gap closing, a rangefinder and
dancing long range disruptor rather than a centerline blast with arm control).

So I guess, I'd agree, from this one experience at least, that the long range
skills I saw were 'handled' but definitely not highly developed, and that the
real power was definitely in the quick flurries from punching range into
very close range.  Very aggressive and very direct.  Definitely effective.
The trick for this kind of fighter, I think, would be 
getting from just outside punching range into punching range in a position
where they could start their trapping and blasting, without getting caught 
by straight punches sidestepping into hooks.  If there is no contact with the
arms, the ability to trap to close the gap becomes eliminated somewhat.

I'll have to work with him a little more and see what he thinks.

							kind regards,

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejdath@donner.uucp (25832-dath)
Subject: did someone say invertebrate?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 12:46:02 GMT

It's funny that someone mentioned invertebrates...

I was wandering down my front walk not really thinking clearly and all of
a sudden I was confronted with a really huge earth worm, the wild kind.

It wouldn't let me pass... I didn't want to hurt it, but it gave me no choice
(it slimed my shoe when I got too close).  I delivered what I thought to be
an excellent palm strike to the midsection, the worm split in two and I thought for sure that it would let me pass.  NO! both halves jumped into the melee!
Now faced with multiple attackers I gave them some ground.  They were both
really pissed now, being cut in two and all.  As I sized up the situation I
decided that without any groin, neck, eyes or any other real vulnerable points
continuing the defense was hopeless.  I retreated to my car and waited for them
to leave the area before attempting to reach the house again.

While I sat in the car and after while washing the slime off of my hands and
front walk (cursing them the whole time) I could not come up with a suitable
defense.  Since then I have been working on Worm style Kung Fu, but I haven't
been able to get a handle on the splitting in two thing and my slime covering
keeps drying out...

any suggestions?

Does anyone have any defenses in case the worms return?


(Hey, can't you take a joke?)
E.J.
From: pitaro@joker.sanders.lockheed.com (Michael Pitaro)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:30:50 GMT
Reply-To: pitaro@rocket.sanders.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
In-reply-to: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com's message of 14 Aug 92 19:34:04 GMT


  From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)

  Experienced Aikidoka tend to have a posture and basic grounding skills
  that makes standing throws against them extremely difficult.  Probably not 
  what would be considered good practice in Judo, though.  I remember one 
  good competitive judoka trying for several minutes unsuccessfully
  in our dojo to throw several of the senior Aikido people.  He
  sometimes threw them if he switched to a tomoe or other sac throw,
  but they effectively heavy-armed him against hip throws and
  footsweeps because of their posture and balance skills.
  They didn't even try to throw the Judoka.  I suspect they would have
  failed at least 9 out of 10 times if they had taken the offensive
  against this guy.  He was pretty good at standing counters.

That's not surprising.  The same thing happens when judoka play each
other.  It is extremely hard to throw someone with alot of experience
if he is doing nothing but defending.  That's why there are stalling
penalties in competition.  It is more interesting to see what happens
when both competitors are trying to throw.
--
Michael Pitaro                              Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
                                            PO Box 868, MER24-1583C
Signal Processing Center of Technology      Nashua, NH 03061-0868
pitaro@rocket.sanders.com                   603/885-9794 (Voice)
(or) ...!uunet!rocket!pitaro                603/885-0631 (FAX)
--
Michael Pitaro                              Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
                                            PO Box 868, MER24-1583C
Signal Processing Center of Technology      Nashua, NH 03061-0868
pitaro@rocket.sanders.com                   603/885-9794 (Voice)
(or) ...!uunet!rocket!pitaro                603/885-0631 (FAX)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 16:05:23 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Keywords: wristlocks

In article <3446@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
|In article <1793@celia.UUCP> celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
|>Obviously, if an experienced uke realizes that he is being led
|
|	Yup, my point is exactly the it's much harder to "trick" a judoka
|into giving up her balance than Joe Average Aikidoka, because her training
|is "be sensitive to your balance and always adjust to make sure you stay
|balanced".
|

... which, I suppose, can be said of any foo-ka with enough experience.
Perhaps the outcome of a judoka vs. aikidoka contest is just a question
of relative skill and not of the arts?

|								wr

--Sergej Roytman
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Doug P Forbush)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Originator: dpf@convex.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:35:30 GMT


>From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
>Subject: The Christian MA
>Message-ID: <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
>Date: 12 Aug 92 11:30:42 GMT

Well Stephen, you've stirred up the pot with this one.
The dogs will pack when they smell blood.  Hang in there.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Keywords: wristlocks
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:57:20 GMT

In article <3390@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

>my aikido sensei can throw me without touching me

That's nothing.  A Greenoch master can kill you over the phone.  The
original Celtic technique involved shouting from the top of a crag, but
the principle is the same.

Email is harder, due to the propagation delays.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: rakoczynskij@gtephx.UUCP (Jurek Rakoczynski)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Headlock escape for non-vampires (was Re: Biting in the MA's?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:09:05 GMT
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <1992Aug10.163813.13864@cpqhou.compaq.com>, pipkinsj@cpqhou.compaq.com (Jeff Pipkins ) writes:
> In article <BsMCy2.AEM@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:
> >I was taught a technique for getting out of a head lock.  Just turn
> >your face in towards your opponent's side and start chowing down on
> >their ribs.  My instructor claimed that, not only will they let you
> >go, but they won't bother you any more since they will be convinced
> >that you are a lunatic (I expect it helps if you growl as you bite).
> 
> Let's assume that the opponent is standing and has you in a headlock
> on his right side, using one or both hands.  Every escape technique
> should be preceded by an attention-getter of some kind to focus the
> attention away from your task.  Even in this awkward position, there
> are many targets you can reach!
> 
[Various escape techniques deleted]

I had an unfortunate circumstance (back when I knew I was a walking
killer!  :-) I know better now.) to have someone in a head lock on my
right side while blocking his friend from trying to kick me in my left
side.  We were between cars in a drive-in.  A few seconds after I put
the first guys head into a head lock. I felt him trying to bite me.  I
increase the pressure with the side of my arm to push his back down
and twist his head up and away from me, and dropped my center at the
same time.  He had all he could do to keep from falling and hurting
his own neck.  I'm sure his neck hurt for many days after that.

Well the fight broke up after people around us came to help me and my
GIRL FRIEND!  Did I say GIRL FRIEND (I knew I married her for some
reason!)  She was doing a great job keep the 3rd guy away from me. 
She scared him and kept him back with what looked like a perfect kata
defensive stance.  She probably could have done some damage to him (at
least that's what I'd like to think).  Maybe even better that I was
doing!

Well back to the bite.  It didn't start hurting until things settled
down.  There was a minor bruise where he tried to bite and it hurt
just enough to remind me it was there for about 1 week.  Same with the
2 kicks that the 2nd guy got through into my left side.  It's a lesson
I haven't forgotten.

-- 
Jurek Rakoczynski, AG Communication Systems, POB 52179, Phoenix, AZ. 85072
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!rakoczynskij  Voice: +1 602 581 4867
Inet: gtephx!rakoczynskij@enuucp.eas.asu.edu              Fax: +1 602 582 7111
Inet: /DD.UN=J.RAKOCZYNSKI/O=GTE/PRMD=GTEMAIL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:22:43 GMT

	I think the best thing we can do with this thread is to bury it.
	What a waste of time.

	-Andy V.