HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfr@wcusv1.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Steven Schaeffer)
Subject: RE: New queue system stable?
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 19:15:41 GMT

In article <65920901091656.0004570754NA1EM@mcimail.com>, HOLDREGE+_MP%A1%PacifiCare@MCIMAIL.COM (Matthew Holdrege) writes:
|> 
|> >What say you readers with *large* clusters?  Is the queue system finally
|> >stable?
|> 
|> >Ed Wilts, BC Systems Corp., 4000 Seymour Place, Victoria, B.C., Canada, V8X 4S8
|> >EWilts@Galaxy.Gov.BC.CA   |   Ed.Wilts@BCSystems.Gov.BC.CA   |   (604) 389-3430
|> 
|> I haven't heard of any large clusters on the new queue manager. We have 
|> over 300 queues and we are also waiting to see if anyone else has switched.
|> 
|> I wonder if DEC has any large clusters on the new queue manager? 
|> =========================================================================
|> Matt Holdrege                5156065@mcimail.com
|> Pacificare Health Systems    holdrege@eisner.decus.org

I don't know what you mean by large clusters, but...

I have 2 clusters running 5.5-1 and have been using the new queueing system since
5.5. Each cluster has 20 workstations hanging off of a 3XXX server and there are
dozens of queues in each cluster. About 90% of the queue operations (maybe 500
per day) occur on the servers. I've not had any problems whatsoever... even with 
the "buggy" 5.5 queueing system software.

================================================================================
Steven J. Schaeffer         Ma Bell: (208) 526-8543      "If it ain't broke...
EG&G Idaho, Inc.            FTS:           583-8543       don't fix it!"
P.O. Box 1625               Internet: sfr@inel.gov
Idaho Falls, ID 83415-3418  FAX:     (208) 526-1998
================================================================================
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: jeremy@vsm.com.au
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Moving a DNS nameserver
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:27:12 GMT

Hello, I would like some assistance with Digital's DNS please (version
1.1).

At my present contract we are running DNS on a cluster of 3 VMS A5.5
systems.  DNS has been installed for about 12 months (before I arrived) and
when I came onto the scene it was not working properly: a system trying to
use DFS would intermitently crash the DNS, amongst other problems.  I
played with it for a while without much luck, and called Digital TSC.  They
played with it for a few days and everntually realised the machine running
DNS (ie the DNS server) had changed its DECnet address.  The TSC person
edited/patched various files and made it good.

Now we are installing a fourth machine, with its own system disk, and we
want to move the DNS server function onto it, and remove DNS from the other
cluster nodes.  I read the DNS book and came up with this strategy:

1) Install DNS on the new machine, and specify NO when the installation
procedure asks if this is a new namespace.

2) On the old nameserver, set access to the clearinghouse to allow the new
machine to update it (ie node::SYSTEM acc READ WRITE DELETE TEST CONTROL)

3) On the old namesever,
   DNS> STOP CLEARINGHOUSE wkv_ch
   DNS> REMOVE CLEARINGHOUSE wkv_ch

4) Copy the clearinghouse file from the old server to the new

5) On the new nameserver,
   DNS> ADD CLEARINGHOUSE wkv_ch

6) Stop the old nameserver

This all seemed to work, except for two things:
- the DNS installation procedure seems to have set the wrong timezone on
the new nameserver (I specified +09:30, but it was created -09:30)
- when I tried to install DFS on the new machine, the DNS fell in a heap.

I've stopped and started DNS on the new machine, and rebooted it, but it
just doesn't work.  I tried fixing the timezone on the new namserver but
that just results in "System time has gone backwards" messages on the
console, and attempts to communicate with the nameserver just hang.

Where have I gone wrong?

        Jeremy Begg

  +----------------------------------------------------------+
  | VSM Software Services,  |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au    |
  | P.O.Box 801, Unley,     |   Phone:  +61 8 4145074 (pager)|
  | South Australia 5061    |     FAX:  +61 8 3734911        |
  +----------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: aswx266@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke)
Subject: Re: Editing large files with TPU
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 05:41:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.172043.1@ptavv.llnl.gov> oberman@ptavv.llnl.gov writes:
>In article <01GO0EHHKABK0007D3@BENTLEY.BITNET>, KPETERSO@BENTLEY.BITNET writes:
>> I am trying to EDIT/TPU (EVE) a 29553 block file and coming up
>> with errors.  When I EVE the filename, the machine thinks about
>> it, then I recieve the following error message:
>> 
>> 2098 byte record to large for users buffer
>> 
>
>Neither the size of the file, quotas, or the system are involved.
>
>TPU has an internal record buffer of fixed size. I should remember what it is,
>but I don't right now. Either 1024 or 2048. I suspect the latter.

960.  Don't know why.

>
>Your file has at least one record of 2098 bytes. That blows TPU out of the
>water. There is no way to edit such a file with TPU as far as I know. SED
>should work on it, though. (No, I don't remember where to get it, either.
>(Senility!)
>
If you have the old DEC/Shell you got sed:  Do 
sed :== $sys$sysroot:[shellexe]sed

but there are others around.  Or use TECO:  TECO:==$TECO32 TECO  
Comes with VMS ;-)

-- 
Michael Lemke
Astronomy, UT Austin, Texas
(michael@io.as.utexas.edu or UTSPAN::UTADNX::IO::MICHAEL [SPAN])
From: dongray@cdclu1.genrad.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Submitting Jobs for Last Day of Month
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:28:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

> dongray@cdclu1.genrad.com writes:
>>   $  submit file.com /after="''f$cvtime(f$fao("1-!AS-!SL-1-0:0:0",
>>   f$extr(f$cvtime(,,"month")*3,3,"XXXFEBMARAPRMAYJUNJULAUGSEPOCTNOVDECJAN"),
>>   f$cvtime(,,"year")+f$cvtime(,,"month")/12),"absolute")'"
>>
>> I leave it as an exercise for the reader to make a more practical solution :-)
>> ...and avoid the pathological case. (Try running it at 31-JUL-1992 23:59:59.99).
>
> $ submit file.com/after="1-''f$extract(2,8,f$cvtime("1-+31-","ABSOLUTE"))':0:5"
>
> No tricks, no shortcuts, no truncated symbols, no pathological cases, and I
> also remembered to allow five minutes for out-of-sync clocks across the
> cluster... 8-)

> Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
> Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)

You don't consider the "1-+31-" a trick?? :-) Anyway you didn't quite complete
the solution; yours gives the 1st of the next month; what was needed therefore
is ...

$lastday=f$cvtime("1-''f$extract(2,8,f$cvtime("1-+31-","ABSOLUTE"))'-0-23:55",-
 "absolute")
$submit file.com/after="''lastday'"

... but, as yet (after 10 minutes), I can't reduce this to 1 line (the quotes
get confusing/confused).

BTW, I usually abbreviate the lexicals; probably a bad habit, but hard to
break. Also I run DECdts so my clocks are never more than a few seconds out of
sync; I used to run SET TIME/CLUSTER daily too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : Derek Dongray, Systems Manager, GenRad Ltd.
Phone : 061 486 1511 ext 166
PSS : 234261600119::Dongray                 UKnet : Derek.Dongray@GenRad.co.uk
InterNet : Dongray@cdclu1.GenRad.com        CompuServe : 70374,2745
Address : Monmouth House, Monmouth Road, Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire, SK8 7AY, UK.
From: T.Wade@vms.eurokom.ie (Tom Wade VMS Systems)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Automating login with PSI
Date: 31 Aug 92 11:04:08 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Greetings,

I wish to have a command file that automatically logs a user into a remote
site using a supplied username/password, and then pass control to his terminal.

I can do it quite easily with DECnet, for example

----------
$	Set Host <hostname>
<username>
<password>
---------
The above file will make the connection, log in, and leave the user to carry
on from there.  If I try the same thing with PSI, replacing "<hostname>"
with "/X29 <dte-address>", it logs in, and just sits there until the call
is cleared.  Has anyone found a neat way of doing this (I guess I could write
a PAD using the X29 routines, but it seems overkill).

Thanks for any help.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Wade        | Internet: T.Wade@vms.eurokom.ie  (all domain mailers).
Network Manager | DEC Enet: DECWRL::"t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie"  (VMS Mail)
EuroKom         | PSI-Mail: PSI%272431001992::_T_WADE
UCD Belfield    | JANET:    t.wade%ie.eurokom.vms@UK.AC.EARN-RELAY
Dublin 4        | X400:     g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail 400;c=ie
Ireland         | Telex:       (0500) 91178 UCD EI  ("TO: WADE" at start)
-------------------+----------------------------------------------------------
Tel: +353-1-2830555|  Official Disclaimer:  "This is not a disclaimer"
Fax: +353-1-2838605|          Unix  ....  Just say No !


Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: sysbrc@loki.albany.edu (Brian Cuttler)
Subject: Re: Disk quota report facility wanted?
Keywords: diskquota report utility
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:04:26 GMT

In article <01GO15DW2CPE9EDHKB@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU> JREARDON@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU (JACK REARDON) writes:
>Date sent: 26-AUG-1992 08:27:46.00
>Hi,
>   We currently review diskquota use by eyeballing terminal output from
>the DISKQUOTA utility.  We are running VMS 5.5-1
>Is there software available that formats diskquota data?  We look 
>at things like:
>      - over quota
>      - close to quota (90% of allocation used)
>      - top ten disk users (arbitrary number)
>      - unusally high quota allocation everything over our normal allocation
>
>Any pointers to SW would be appreciated.      
>



I have some local software that might do what you need.  It reads a file
generated from diskquota (we trap the output using "$ def/user sys$output")
and sorts the UICs and can report on the users who use over nn% of their
permquota (nn% is set on the command line as are the names of the input
and output files).  I also have companion programs to summarize disk
usage by UIC group on the disk and a program that will summarize by user
or by group across multiple quota input files.

If your interested I can send source (fortran and cld), if there is
enough interest I will post to the group.

						Brian
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian R Cuttler - Senior Systems Programmer, University at Albany
Phone: 518-442-3906                             sysbrc@albnyvms.bitnet
FAX:   518-442-3697                             sysbrc@uacsc1.albany.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cearley_k@wizard.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: TIFF to Sixel Conversion Software?
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:05:14 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder


Hi! Does anyone know of such a beast? We need to convert TIFF (or EPS)
to Sixel in order to setup some signatures to be included in
WPS documents for LN03s (yuck). We are investigated DECprint, but 
we're wondering if anyone is doing anything with sixel?

		-Thanks
		-Kent Cearley
		-University of Colorado, Boulder
From: barck@possum.den.mmc.com (Gerry Barck)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Apple Laser IIf
Summary: How Laser IIf to DECserver 200?
Keywords: Laser II, DECserver 200
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:26:26 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver



  Help!  I wish to attach an Apple Laser IIf to a DECserver 200.
  The Laser IIf queue will be on a VAX 4000, VMS 5.5.
  What should the cable wiring be?
  What should be the DECserver port settings ?
  To what should the SET TERM parameters be set ?
  Any special escape sequences ?

  Thanks much for the help.

  G. Barck
-- 
barck@pogo.den.mmc.com 
DISCLAIMER: Any opinion expressed or implied are not my employers and
	    probably not mine.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: murphy@burfle.dco.dec.com (Rick Murphy)
Subject: Re: Linking problem!!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!
Reply-To: murphy@burfle.dco.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Landover MD
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:13:52 GMT


In article <1992Aug26.191820.23959@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>, robert@triton.jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Angelino) writes:
>VMS Gurus,
>	I need to use the /G_FLOAT option to CC.  If I use this option
>the manual says to be sure to link with vaxcrtlg.  
	...
>
>The linker errors I'm getting follow:
>%LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ACOS multiply defined
>	in module VAXCRTLG file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]VAXCRTLG.EXE;2

	...hundreds of redundant lines deleted. 

Information on how to do this is located in the release notes.
Look for `sys$help:vacx032.release_notes' for the chapter titled
'Support for mixing /GFLOAT and /NOGFLOAT modules'. Note the correction to
the DEFINE below..

When compiling, use CC/GFLOAT/DEFINE="CC$mixed_float"
Make sure your programs include stdio.h, stdlib.h, math.h, and unixlib.h.
Link against VAXCRTL, not VAXCRTLG.
	-Rick

--
Rick Murphy, WA1SPT/4			Washington Open Systems Resource Center
Domain:  murphy@burfle.dco.dec.com -or- murphy@dco.dec.com
Bang:    decwrl!burfle.enet!murphy	Ding:  (301) 918-5883
Disclaimer: This nonsense came from an AI program written in TECO. Ignore it.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: brent@uwovax.uwo.ca (Brent Sterner)
Subject: Seeking "buffer recall > 20 commands" patch
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:18:40 GMT

   Could some kind soul point me to the appropriate patch for DCLTABLES
(I think) to extend the recall buffer beyond 20 commands for VMS 5.5?
Further, do you know if the patch is valid with 5.5-1?
--
Brent Sterner                       Manager, Academic Technical Support
Fast:       <BRENT@uwo.ca>          <129.100.2.13>
Telephone:  (519)661-2151 x 6036    Fax:   (519)661-3486
Slow:  Computing & Communications Services, Natural Sciences Building
       The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada  N6A 5B7
From: dragon@NSCVAX.PRINCETON.EDU (Mighty Firebreather)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: RE: Information on CMU-Tek TCP/IP
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:02:36 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


	Ian Leonard 
<munnari.oz.au!uniwa!fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au!i_leonard@uunet.uu.net> writes:
>
>I am wondering if CMU-TEK TCP/IP is still around. Can anyone supply me with
>some details and mailing addresses. Please mail directly to me. If anyone
>else would like this info then mail to me and I will forward the responses
>to you.
>

	CMU-TEK is still around.  The current version is 6.6-5.  For
information about CMU-TEK TCP/IP send to <tcpip+@andrew.cmu.edu>. 

	The mailing list is <cmu-tek-tcp@cmutek.cc.cmu.edu>.  Insert a 
"-request" between "tcp" and the "@" to subscribe and for other 
administrivia.


*************************************************************************
*                                                                       *
*                        Here, there be dragons!                        *
*                      dragon@nscvax.princeton.edu                      *
*                                                                       *
*                                                Richard B. Gilbert     *
*************************************************************************
From: winston@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: RE:Will lmf kill alpha???
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:01:21 GMT
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab

In article <9209030436.AA11396@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, ALLIN1V2@WR-HITS.AF.MIL ("Allin1v2") writes:
> |>When we got the "temporary SUPs" from Digital 3 years ago they told us
> |>that we needed to get real PAKs.  When the PAKs for some things didn't show
> |>up after 6 months, they sent us a letter saying, "if you didn't get any
> |>PAKs, please let us know."  When the Fortran compiler showed up last month,
> |>it had a big letter on the top saying, "hey, if you don't have a certain
> |>kind of PAK, then you better get one before upgrading."
> 
>    I agree that DEC needs to get on the Ball in sending out PAKs. There has been many times I was installing something and find out that the old PAK is no good and DEC forgot to send me a new one.  I found the Temp. Service PAK service on 
> DSNLink other day ago and figure that that should help, get a TSP a little quicker than calling CSC and waiting ( and waiting and waiting) for them to call back with the PAK they should have sent in the first place.
> 
>    I haven't had a chance to use DSNLinks TSP service yet, but figure it should help and others might not be aware of it (like I wasn't)
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Harry Anderson,ANDERSONHMAI@WR-HITS.AF.MIL 132.11.15.12 |Jesus Christ loves you
> Robins Air Force Base Ga - Geeks of the World Unite ! ! |and died for You.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: mrandall@av8r.uucp (Mark Randall)
Subject: Re: Script Language for VMS
Organization: Daniel Webster College, Nashua, NH
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 20:59:19 GMT

I have used Compuserve's HOST32 program - It seems to work well, and
has an impressive script language.

			Mark

-- 
Mark Randall         Icky-Icky-Icky-Icky BAKONG! ZOOBOING! VAUSHung....
(603)886-1203                            (Ni!)
decvax!av8r!mrandall
mrandall@av8r.uucp   (Please note that this node is NOT registered in a domain)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: parris@star.enet.dec.com (Keith Parris)
Subject: Re: Too many queues spoil the disk?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:55:31 GMT


In article <29662@ursa.UUCP>, RABINOWITZ@bear.com (Ari Rabinowitz) writes...
>As the title says, we seem to be having a problem caused by too many
>queues.  The disk which holds the JBCSYSQUE.DAT file, as weel as being
>the spool disk for all of our terminal printers is getting corrupted
>when we try to init a queue.

Is it perhaps the queue file itself which is getting corrupted internally,
rather than the disk structure?  (The error messages I'm thinking of might
easily be misinterpreted, I suspect...) 

>When we rebooted the cluster, which we do every Friday night, we could
>not get some of the nodes to come up at all until we changed the
>/BUFFER_COUNT on the START/QUEUE/MANAGER to 1000.  This allowed the
>nodes to come up without corrupting the disk, but as soon as we tried to
>INIT/QUEUE any new queues we had the problem again.

The first node to start up the queue manager in a cluster does some
more-thorough checking of the queue file structure, and may refuse to use the
file if the data structures inside it are found to be corrupted.  Since this
extra checking normally only occurs on the reboot after a total cluster
shutdown, the file can become corrupted internally and seem to operate just
fine for a while, until you take the cluster down and try to bring it back up. 

There are a couple of tools available to help rebuild/reconstruct a corrupted
queue file: JBC$UPGRADE from the V5.0 kit is the easiest, and works in most
cases; or my FIXQUE.COM.  There's an article on DSNlink which discusses
corrupted queue files, and FIXQUE.COM is available from the CSC (and it was
also put on DECUServe a while back). 

Since you shut down every weekend, you might consider using one of these tools
to rebuild your queue file once a week or as needed, until you can upgrade and
use the new V5.5 queue manager. 

>We have almost 300 queues, broken down as follows:

You're lucky.  Some folks have 500 to 600 or more.  But I'm sorry to hear yours
are broken down. :-) 
____________________-_-----_-_---__-__-_-----_____----_-____-_----____------_-__
         Keith B. Parris           Digital Equipment Corporation
                                   Alpha VMS Engineering, Clusters & I/O Group
Any information here which is later found to be inaccurate was mine, of course.
Digital gets the credit for any actual facts which happen to slip into this.
-__---__-_---__-__-_-_-_-_____-__--_____---_-___-_-_-_--__-_--_--___-_-__--_____
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: How many VUPS to 1 MIPS or how many MIPS to 1 VUP.
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:43:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bu2K3r.Lsr
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <1992Sep3.111756.14@bra.isnet.inmos.co.uk> tscarpenter@bra.isnet.inmos.co.uk writes:
>OK a easy question for all you Vax gurus,
>
>I know what VUP stands for but what does it equate to.
>
>For instance what is one VUP equivelent to in MIPS.
>
>Thanks in advance.

Here's your question worded slightly differently:
  What is one apple equivalent to in oranges?

VUP = unit of processing power
MIPS = unit of instruction throughput

In the VAX line of computers, 1 VUP is roughly equivalent to 1/2 MIPS.
Outside the VAX line (on a RISC machine, for instance), the correlation
can only be done on a architecture by architecture basis.

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"It's a marvel of vegetable containment..."
From: awb702@jaguar.uofs.edu (Alex W Bryant)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: equivalent to SET BOOT
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:13:06 GMT
Reply-To: awb702@jaguar.uofs.edu (Alex W Bryant)
Organization: University of Scranton


	Does anyone know if it is possible to issue an equivalent to the 
>>>SET BOOT <nickname> [>boot-parameters>], without bringing down the system.
We are running VMS5.5 on a 4010, 6320, and a 6610.  Thanks.
--
                                  
________________________________________________________________________
Alex W Bryant - UCS                               University of Scranton
awb702@jaguar.ucs.uofs.edu
From: n8846069@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Barry)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Ghostscript and GNU C
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:38:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Sep2.153800.855
Organization: Western Washington University

I am trying to create a working version of Ghostscript for VMS
using GCC using the included VMS-GCC.MAK.  But I can't get past
the linking stage.  I get the following errors:

%LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 2 undefined symbols:
%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         UDIV
%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         UREM

My Setup:
---------
VMS 5.5
DECwindows-Motif
GNU C 1.40
GhostScript 2.5

Any idea what's going on here?  Is this an artifact of GNU C?  Any
work arounds?

-BarryB
 n8846069@henson.cc.wwu.edu
From: mjb@lime.ems.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: What is MMS???
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:05:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: lime.1992Aug28.160531.309
Organization: Effective Management Systems - Milwaukee,  WI

Hello net world;

A program (lpd) I got from vmsnet.sources wants me to use MMS to build the
.exe.  What is MMS? Where do you get it? and if not can I use something else?


Thanks for any info.


-- 
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
Mike Braun                      Disclaimer:
Support Dept.                   My opinions count for nothing to anybody and
Effective Management Systems    are not my employers.
Milwaukee, WI USA               
Internet:  mjb@lime.ems.com     "The Bill of Rights" (use it or loose it) 
Ma Bell :  +800-227-9594                                  
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+