From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:20:53 GMT

In article <LOWRY.92Oct7103712@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.130304.19446@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton) writes:
> > In article <1at09jINN8m9@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
> > > [description of playground run-in who felt that Diane's son Dylan
> > > should have pushed back when his own son, twice Dylan's side,
> > > pushed him]
> >
> > >It doesn't help parents like me who are trying to raise our sons
> > >to be prosocial rather than aggressive, to run up against people
> > >like that father at the playground.  But, to anticipate any other
> > >such macho types out there, such a childrearing goal does not mean
> > >that my son will not be able to assert himself.  Just as I would
> > >want a daughter to be self-assertive but not violent, I expect the
> > >same level of civilized behavior from my son.
> >  
> > Diane, idealism is all fine and good BUT it fades fast when the
> > other elementary school kids find out your kid won't fight back.
> > He's going to encounter confrontations ten fold.  
>
>It's one thing to acknowledge that there are situations in which one
>must defend oneself.  It's another to accept, as the playground
>bully's father did, the idea that your child can go around beating up
>on anybody, let alone kids half his size, and if they can't defend
>themselves it's there tough luck.  Your comment doesn't seem to have
>much to do with the situation Diane described.
 
 My comment was meant for the future. Not in regards to history.
 
 Let me tie it in for you. Do you think Diane will be there in school
when someone decides to pick on young Dylan. Do you think the
bully at school picks on bigger people generally. Now think about that.
 
So you see I was not referring to the slugs attitude, but about life.
Now think about that. Is a tie in developing for you? No? Well thats
OK because I wasn't responding to some obscure playground adventure
you where once involved in.
 
>
> > At some point a man has to do what a man has to do.
>
>Wow, what a macho phrase!  I take it you don't believe it's important
>for women to be able to defend themselves against attack.  Else why
>the gender-specific remark?
 
 I don't see a lot of bullys man handling girls out on the playground.
Your experience is probably different. As long as you have decided to
imply I'm a chauvenist allow me to inquire, do you always strike up
the cause of feminism at the drop of a hat.
Perhaps you are one of those militant feminist sensitive 90's type guys.
I hope I haven't offended you and I'll bet Diane is relieved her search
for her knight in shining armor is over.
 
>
> > Eventually your son will being fighting for his slice of the pie in
> > life and you are not going to be there.  
>
>It sounds like Diane will have prepared him well to fight for what is
>rightfully his, but not to exploit weaknesses in others to get what is
 
Nice leap of logic pal. Yes she did a wonderfull job. Mommy he didn't
give me my ball. Then Dylan saw his mother getting pissed off and
said "I shall not exploit weaknesses in others." Do you watch a lot
of cartoons?

 I personally would have said "Either you can have your child behave civilly
or I'll do it". I certainly would not sit there and let my kid get bullied.
My son is under strick orders to tell his teacher if he is hit. If the   
problem is not resolved and he is hit a second time he is to hit back.
Out of curiosity Andy do you have any children or are you some snot
nosed recent "mature" graduate?

>rightfully theirs.  The bully's father appears to be preparing his son
>to do the latter.
 
Yes the bully's father appears to be raising a serial killer or at the
very least someone who post's out of left field.

>
>Huh?
>--
>Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925

 
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