From: kag1948@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (niente)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: parables compared with non-biblical jesus texts :)
Date: 24 Aug 92 01:21:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

[This posting started by quoting a request by someone for a copy of the
Septuagint.  It seems irrelevant to the contents of the posting.  --clh]

matthew...I have a very interesting book called The Parables of Jesus...
it does not include the complete septuagant but does, however, compare
the parables of the accepted books with fragments and books that have
been found since the bible was "brought together".  it is very
interesting, and since the book was given to a friend of mine (actually,
she had five) I don't think there would be a problem with giving it to
someone else...I have never seen it in print..and I have looked for it.

the book contains:

descriptions of the narrative gospels (you have them in your bible :) )

descriptions of the sayings gospels:

gospel of thomas (found in 1945 in egypt in complete form) which is
     widely regarded as a independant witness to the sayings of
     jesus...believed to be one of two sources used by matthew and luke to 
     write their gospels.

dialogue of the savior (found at the same location as thomas) closely
     related to the gospel of thomas and john.

apocryphon of james (same place :)  ) no narration...supposedly the
     words of the risen christ...the whole is embedded in a letter
     purportedly written (in hebrew) by james.

descriptions of the infancy gospels:

i.g. of thomas :fourth century manuscript oral sources and luke.

i.g. of james: second-third century detailed accound of the birth of
mary and jesus


passion gospels:

gospel of peter (fragment found in egypt in 1866) passion narrative,
     epiphany empty tomb and ressurection.

Acts of pilate: an account of the trial of jesus. supposedly written by nicodemus.


also the book contains parts of "Q"...a source used by matthew and luke.

the book really focuses on the gospel of thomas. the book is not trying
to convince people to put thomas in the bible.... but reading the com
parisons really gave me a lot to think about.

for example.

mat 21:33b-43                                 thom. 65-66

there was a householder who planted |   there was a good man who owned a
a vineyard, and set a hedge around  |   vineyard.  he leased it to ten-
it, and dug a wine press in it, and |   ant farmers so that they might
built a tower, and let it out to    |   work it and he might collect the
tenants and went into another coun- |   produce from them.  
try.                                | 
When the season of fruit dew near, 
he sent his servants to the tenants |   He sent his servant so that the
to get his fruit;                   |   tenants might give him the
                                        produce of the vineyard.
and the tenants took his servants & |   They seized his servant and beat
beat one, killed another, and stoned|   him, all but killing him.
another.                            |        
                                    |   The servant went back and told
                                    |   his master.  The master said,
                                    |   "Perhaps (they) did not
                                    |   recognize (him).   
Again he sent other servants, more  |   He sent another servant
than the first, and they did the    |   the tenants beat this one as
same to them.                       |   well.          
Afterward he sent his son to them   |   Then the owner sent his son and
saying, "they will respect my son"  |   said, "perhaps they will show
                                    |   respect to my son."
But when the tenants saw the son,   |   Because the tenants knew that it
they said to themselves, this is the|   was he who was the heir to the
heir, come let us kill him and have |   vineyard, they seized him and
his inheritance. and they took him  |   killed him.
out and cast him out of the vineyard|
and killed him.
"when therefore the owner of the vineyard|
comes, what will he do to those tenants? 
they said to him "he will put those wretches|
to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard|
to other tenants who will give him the fruits|
in their seasons "
                                    |let him who has ears hear.
Jesus said to them, "have you never |
read in the scriptures:             |

the very stone which the builders   | jesus said, "show me the stone
rejected has become the head of the | which the builders have rejected.
corner; this was the lord's doing,  | That one is the cornerstone.
and it is marvelous in our eyes.

you may also want to compare thomas to mark 12 1b-11 and luke 20 9b-18

if you want to hear more, post or email or suggest a parable you would
like to hear what is said in thomas or the apocryphon of james.

god bless

kate


  Th4448                                             
 

[Note that few scholars think Thomas was a source for any of the
canonical gospels.  Also, Q is strictly hypothetical.  I know there's
a concordance to it and that scholars sometimes talk about what
appears in it.  But no actual copies of it exist.  So anything that
appears from it in this volume would be a scholarly reconstruction.
As far as I have been able to determine, the only one of these books
that is likely to have any independent historical content is Thomas.
There are controversies about it, but at least many scholars believe
that it has some genuine sayings by Jesus, and that not all of them
are dependent upon the canonical gospels.  The rest of these should be
looked at with a good deal of scepticism.  --clh]