From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:01:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.172742.14391@uwm.edu> pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) writes:
>After following the "men's mysteries" thread for a while, I think a general
>consensus <as much as any can be reached thru the Net> that male mysteries
>are needed.  The question then becomes, where to start?
>
>I think a appropritate place would be with rites of passsage from boy to
>manhood.  

Feel free to correct me here, but I think that "card-carrying" rites of
passage have been suppressed, so the desire for one in men comes out in
other ways -- such as turning 21 and going into an alcohol coma from
drinking 21 Black Russians, or joining a frat and screwing a drunk 14
year old as an initiation test.  Rites of passage for men exist, believe
me, but they are hardly productive as far as developing any sense of
spirituality or profundity in the man doing it.

People -- men and women -- have a deep need for ritual and some sense of
passage as well as ecstasy, but we aren't allowed to taste any of these
in any other than rigidly prescribed ways, and the ecstasy is off-limits
totally.  Men's desire for a rite of passage marking entrance into manhood
is still extant, quite so.  It has just been frustrated into finding
other less savory ways of satisfaction.    

>To digress for a moment, it is my opinion the lack of a "rite of passage" for
>males in US culture is a major cause for anti-social behavior.  

Read above -- the antisocial behavior IS the rite of passage,because the
men have no other way to obtain it. 

>For women, there is a clear, physical sign that she is no longer a girl, but
>now she is growing into a mature, women: the onset of menstruation.  

I've heard men talk about shaving this way, but again, it isn't a clear
onset.  Women do have an advantage here.

My SO -- TMM -- and I were talking about designing a spirituality or
religion or whatever one time (I've since just decided to find my own,
and let everyone else know what I do so they can pick what they wwant
from it, likeI did).  We hung up BADLY onwhat to do for men to mark a
passage into manhood.  Menarche is so easy for women, and it's also
individualized.  You pass as an individual, and YOU are center stage for
that time.  The onlything you can dofor men is something where all the
boys turn age N and pass them all as a group,but there isn't any
INDIVIDUAL thang.  (One of us suggested first nocturnal emission, but I
don't know about when that happens.)  
 
This may be a reason why there are so many "solitary hero" movies about
desperados who ride off into the sunset alone, and single warriors, from
Odysseus on down. It's a major cultural icon.  
 
>For males there is no clear sign.  Worse yet, our culture doesn't provide any
>way of marking that change clearly.  Legally, when we turn 18, we're an
>adult, but it isn't indicated in any clear fashion.
>
>IMHO, young men going out, joining gangs, getting drunk, engaging in other
>such behavior is their way of saying:  this is how I prove myself, this is
>how I show I'm an adult now.  

Agreed. 

>Back on topic.  I think the first thing we need to address as a men's mystery
>is the idea of what it is to become a man and the responsibilities that go
>with it.

I can't comment onthis, and I'm not goin to try . . . except a little
bit.  I think men have defined themselves negativelyfor a while -- we're
not women.  If they can get past that, it would help.

I'll shut up now,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan