From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Summing up the Sega/SNES talks, and the Sega/SNES CD issues
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:21:03 GMT
Organization: VMark Software, Inc.

Hello net.game.fans...

For some time now, we have had a couple of threads going on that have been
bantering back and forth and I thought I would sum up some of them as best
I could..  Mainly because they both strike up controversy and flames, I am
just voicing my opinions and do not attempt to offend anyone...  Take it 
however you like...


Part I....
============================================================================
First, the classic Sega vs SNES debate...  Some people have some very narrow
minds the way I look at it.  I started off a very loyal Sega fan.  I avoided
buying the SNES due to an extreme lack of games (and a very high price) as
well as the well-known system slowdown problems.  However, after playing
Street Fighter II I decided it might be time (plus the price had come down
to a more realistic level by then).  And, quite frankly, I am very glad I
did.  I have found a few very good games in the SNES ranks that I really 
enjoy.  But, alas, I still find the majority of games to be bad.  Similar with
the Sega, they have had a number of very good games come out in the last year
or so, and a large number of bad games as well.  Looking at both systems and
my purchases over the last year, I find that I still own and enjoy more 
Sega games than SNES ones.  I do find that I have bought a few more SNES games
of late, but some of that is because I had so many of the good Sega games 
already.  I enjoy both systems and find it funny when people talk about 
how they are going to "dump" one system or another...  It is unfortunate,
because as a very unbiased observer, I don't see either system with all that
much of an advantage that would make we want to choose between the two.  Both
systems have their strengths and weaknesses, and both have their good and bad
games...  What do I like about each??? Well, for those that ask "Which is the
better system?", here is my stock reply...

Both systems are basically equal..  The Genesis offers a much faster and
more powerful processor, good sound, very good graphics, and a huge library
of games.  The SNES offers great sound, lots and lots of colors, sometimes
great graphics (but not always), and a library that is growing all the time.
What are the problems with both??  Well, the Genesis has a smaller palette
of colors to choose from, and can handle fewer colors onscreen at any time.
However, it handles these colors and sprites with very great speed.  The SNES
can handle many, many colors and has the ability to support a great number
of sprites, but suffers from an inferior processor and suffers from slowdown
in a great many games.  Many people have come out trying to proclaim that the
slowdown issue is dead, but I think they are very disillusioned.  But, I will
get to that later...   So, as you can see, both games are essentially equal
with a slight difference..  The Genesis gives you speed while sacrificing
# of colors onscreen while the SNES gives you great colors, but can't handle 
the speed very well without slowing down..   Now, let's look at the two 
problems.  The aforementioned color problem of the Genesis is occasionally 
noticable, but not that often.  Sometimes, on games made for both systems,
it becomes more noticable.  But, a great deal of the Genesis games have 
remarkable graphics and make great use of colors.  In fact, few of the games
really use the full capabilities of the Genesis anyway.  There are some games
that it does affect however.  On the SNES, the slowdown issue is apparant in
most of their early games (especially shooters), and many of their current 
ones.  Does it affect gameplay???  Well, in the early days it made some games
almost unplayable.  Now, through good programming, many games still suffer 
from it, but only in heavily loaded situations and not as a common thing, thus
is doesn't hurt the games all that much.  It still destroys some games, but 
not all.  Later, I will look at some examples...  
Anyway, so what seperates the two systems??? Games..   Nintendo started out 
with a huge advantage in 3rd party programmers that have helped a great deal
in building their library.  Not all of the games have been all that good (in
fact, most have been bad), but that is true with both systems.  However, Sega
has done an amazing job with getting those die-hard Nintendo vendors such as
Konami and Capcom to start doing games for the Sega as well.  Sega already 
enjoys a huge lead in # of games available and programmers have learned the
tricks of it's hardware.  Where are the "strengths" of both systems??  Well,
this is a tough question, but I think that some of the main areas would be that
at this point, Sega has the market on sports games.  I would say the best
Football, Baseball, Golf, Soccer, and argueably basketball (though NCAA is
pretty nice) are on the Sega system (usually from Electronic Arts).  The 
SNES is finally starting to put out some nice titles though.  The NCAA 
basketball was very well done.  Jimmy Conners tennis is another nice title.
They have about a dozen each baseball, soccer, and golf games, and for the most
part they are really very poor.  The EA conversions (Bulls vs. Blazers, PGA 
Golf, Madden Football, etc..) are not as good on the SNES for some reason.

So, what about other areas???  Well, in the area of platform games, I think
the Sega has a slight lead with games such as Sonic I & II (Sonic II being one
of the best games for any system, IMHO), Taz-Mania, Mickey's Castle of Illusion
and Donald Ducks Quackshot, Kid Chamelion, etc...  The SNES has some good
ones though with Super Mario World, Death Valley Rally, Mickey's Magical 
Quest, etc..  I just think the Sega has more good ones at this point.

In the area of RPGs, it is a tough call.  The Sega has the classics like
Phantasy Star II & III, Might & Magic, and others while the SNES has some
very good ones like Legend of Zelda, Soul Blazer, Actraiser, Final Fantasy,
etc...   There are also some very good similar games (some more war simulation
than RPG) like Warsong, Centurian, Herzon Zwei, and the new Koei games 
(Uncharted waters, etc...) for the Sega and some for the SNES (but not as 
many).  I would give the Sega a slight edge as well, as it again seems to have 
more games...

In the area of shooters, I think the SNES is taking the lead if for no other
reason than shear numbers of late.  While most of them have been very lame
(Blazeon, Imperium, E.D.F, SDIW, etc...), some have been good (Axelay, 
Space Megaforce, etc...).   While they have been overhyped on this net, they
are still very good games.  The Sega does have some  great ones as well, 
most notably Thunder Force III and IV.  

In the area of fighting games, I think the SNES wins on the strength of 
Street Fighter II alone.  This is the flagship game for the SNES and is 
probably the very best game around.  Sega has some really good games, but
more in the Streets of Rage vein.  Many of their 2 person combat games have
been ok at best...

Both systems also have some other great games like Super Smash TV , Super
Mario Kart, Mario Paint, and others for the SNES and many others for the
Sega

Anyway, the point is...  Both systems have great games and both systems have
a great deal of REAL bad games.  Many of the SNES games look and sometimes
even sound pretty, but play very bad.  Same with the Sega...  

Some people have tried to say that Sega hasn't had any new games of late, 
while SNES has had so many... I asked what people thought was great for the
SNES and didn't get many replies...  Looking back over the last year or so,
I though about some of the good games for both systems...  

For the Sega... Taz-Mania, Sonic II, Streets of Rage II, Quackshot, Kid 
Chamelion, Turtles, John Madden 93, Bulls vs. Lakers, NHLPA Hockey, 
Joe Montana 93', Chuck Rock, etc... I thought were all very good games.
There were others as well.

For the SNES, Street Fighter II, Soul Blazer, Super Smash TV, NCAA Basketball,
Mario Paint, Mickey's Magical Quest, Hook, etc... were all very good (though
Soul Blazer, MMQ, and Hook were all WAY too short).  There were others as 
well.

I recently took a look at some recent SNES releases...  Here are some 
impressions..

Axelay - decent shooter, WAY overhyped.  Very slow action, some slowdown...
Blazeon - perhaps the worst shooter I have seen in a long time...Very slow,
	poor graphics, slowdown, etc... just plain bad...
Phalynx? - decent graphics, but not real exciting...
Imperium - another VERY bad shooter
GunForce - a VERY bad side scroller... Slowdown, and tons of display problems.
Death Valley Rally - very fun, though hard to control at times.  Great 
	graphics and humor...
Space Megaforce - good shooter...  Did notice some slowdown (that people keep
	trying to say doesn't exist) and sprite problems though...
Jimmy Conners - very good tennis game.
Super Star Wars - WAY overhyped game.  Good graphics and sound, but pretty 
	boring game play.  Just didn't enjoy the game all that much.
Mickey's Magical Quest - great graphics and sound, great game overall, just
	was able to finish it in about 2 hours.  
Hook - See above, great graphics and sound, great game, only took about 2
	hours to finish.
(Note: I am not an expert game player either... these games were just plain
easy...)

Anyway,  people have been knocking one system or another, especially the
Sega lately.  But, I remember when the SNES first came out, everyone jumped
on the Sega saying how it was done...  Well, when the first XMas came around
and Sega destroyed the SNES, those people shut up for awhile... Until, 
SFII... Then, they touted how it was going to be the death of the Sega...
Well, when Sonic II came out and others and the Sega is currently doing 
great, they stopped that...  Well, then the Sega comes out with the 
CD player.   While the system hasn't got the games everyone wants, it is
still selling like hotcakes.  And, as the commercial says... "There is no
Nintendo CD".  I will talk about that next...  Anyway, it seems there are
some people trying to get people to shy away from the Sega..  I would say
that people should basically ignore them.  Again, I own both systems, buy
lots of games for both, and enjoy both.  If I had to choose between the two
right now, I would choose the Sega (mainly because of things like the CD
player, the rumours about SFII:CE, and great games), but am extremely glad
I don't have to choose (as I love the SNES as well.) As someone pointed out,
the Genesis (or SNES) costs about as much as two normal priced games.  
And that is for the full system (not the core systems).  Most people that 
are actually buying many games can afford to do this, and would greatly
benefit by having both..  



Part II
======================================================================

The Vapor-Ware SNES CD player...

Lately, since the arrival of the SEGA CD, people have been dogging it and
talking about the so-called SNES CD player.  I remember last year, when Sega
announced it, Nintendo announced they were going to have one as well.  Then,
when Sega showed it, Nintendo said theirs was going to be better and cost
half as much.  Then, when Sega started selling theirs in incredible numbers
around the country, Nintendo has been saying.. "Don't worry, remember that
incredible claim that we would come out with a better CD player for half the
cost???Well, now we are still saying that, but we will make the CD player
be a 32 bit machine, instead of just 16 bits..."  Yeah, right...  Oh yeah,
and this so-called machine is going to come out this summer... for under
$200..  yeah, right...  What is funny is that people actually believe them.

As for the SEGA CD, it is really funny listening to some people.  Many people
are complaining that they don't like the concepts to many of the CD games
and want more of the old-style games, and then complain that there are too
many of the old-style games.. that they want something new... Huh??? Did I
miss something???  While the full-motion video and music video stuff coming
out in the first wave may not be what everyone wants, it is a very good 
attempt to provide something new and different.  Most people I have talked
to about it have been very happy with most of the new offerings (not the
music video stuff, the other games).  Soon, there is going to be a lot of 
classic PC style games released (Willy Beamish, etc...).  And, their are going
to be lots of current style games with tons of additional levels/cinemas/sounds
etc...  Personally, I don't own a Sega CD yet..  But, when they get a few more
titles out, I will probably be buying one as well.  I applaude Sega for
coming out with the unit, for it's relatively good price (with the software),
and for it's putting out "new" style games.  Now, the real games will start
coming out (WonderDog, others..) and I think they are going to be great...
And the SNES... still waiting for their announcement concerning their new
64 bit CD player coming out next winter for about $99 ...:-)

Another thing lost in all this is that the race for true 32 bit machines
is in full swing.  Sega has reportedly been developing a hom 32-bit machine
for sometime now.  Some people have been speculating about a XMas 93 release.
This machine is also supposed to be compatable with the Sega machines.  Also,
Atari has it's Jaguar supposedly ready to go, and Mitsubishi/EA/??? have a 
machine close to completion... By the time Nintendo gets their 32 bit CD 
player ready (even if they make their supposed dates, year right), other
full-blown 32 bit machines will be out...One step behind yet again...


Anyway...  in closing, sorry for being so long-winded...  Just tired of 
hearing the same old complaints from the same old people and the same old
rumors...  All seem to try and dog Sega, and I think it is time someone with
some degree of impartiality to defend them... 


Until next time, same bat time, same bat channel...
-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"