HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 07:43:44 GMT

swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann) writes:

>These days, I improvise 99% of the time.  Almost all the NPC's in my
>campaign (except for a handful that I made up at the very beginning of
>the campaign) have been created "on the fly".  When necessary, I flesh
>out an NPC further on my own time, but I never really make them up in
>advance.  How could I?  I never know *what* sort of characters I might
>need!  ;-)  And the players invariably hail the on-the-fly adventures
>as the being the most fun and satisfying, because they're always so
>much more -kinetic-.

	Whenever I know I am going to GM a game ( these days CP or CoC ) I
will sit down and say to myself: what do I want to do with these guys this
session.  I will write down a page of stuff for ideas, possibly print up
a screamsheet, or ancient text from my computer (the laser printer makes it
look soo cool too.)  
	But I am very , very flexible in the way I run the scenario.  I also
spend about half an hour afterwards tying in the new NPC's, and other info.
This is then kept in a nice folder, to help generate new ideas and keep a 
sense of continuity.  

>Preparation is fine (in fact necessary) for the beginning DM, or for
>a DM learning a new gaming system.  After that, why bother, it's
>more fun to make it up as you go along.  :-)

	I also find that the actual system used becomes less important
when running a game like this as the rules sort of fade into the background.



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From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:39:09 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug21.222426.3790@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
 dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER) writes:
> In article <1992Aug21.003640.58302@cc.usu.edu> 
 sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

> This thread gneerated approximately 5 good articles after that it 
> degenerated back into mine is better than yours - that belongs on 
> advocacy (that is the reason for the split).
>
> There has not been a single post that has been anything else that defensive
> from you the entire time Deep.  You post how your way is the proper way
> and everyone is obviously playing wrong.  Shame on you (tsk tsk).
> [Above is an example of sarcasam - a note just for you Deep :)]
> 
> Basically it comes down to the style of the GM.  If you and your players
> like module-style approachs then  go with it.  If you and the players
> prefer improv then use it.  If they prefer a mix then grab it.

Well, it's mighty kind of you to step in and try to set us all straight, 
but we worked this out about a week ago. When the thread first started,
I told Steve:

>>>Now, I am not trying to convert you here, and I know you aren't trying
>>>to convert me. I see this as a learning thing, where you show me the 
>>>strong points of your preferences, and I do the same. It's not really a
>>>contest to see who has better ideas or who can argue better, but it is 
>>>stimulating to debate and counter-debate, even if it is just about
>>>gaming.
 
> Isn't that what gaming comes down too?  The enjoyment of the GM and the
> players......

You took the words right out of my mouth. Say, have you met Loren? (Oooh.
That one could cost me).

Okay,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``Ahm just a hunka' hunka' burnin' luv.''
--Elvis, Burning Love
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:30:05 GMT

swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann) writes:

>When I first started DMing (quite a while ago :-) I used to make up
>detailed scenarios and characters in advance, because my knowledge of
>Preparation is fine (in fact necessary) for the beginning DM, or for
>a DM learning a new gaming system.  After that, why bother, it's
>more fun to make it up as you go along.  :-)

I'm a GM of 12 years experience, I certainly am not a beginning GM and
I still do ( or use ) some prep. But I prepare different things. I 
prepare NPC's, or events which can be used at various junctures which
will make the players think - or challenge their characters personality.
If you saw my prep, you'd understand. 

The Game is entirely improvised: I may not use ANY of my prep. But the prep
is loose enough to be worked into almost ANY improvised situation. You'd
have to see the kind of thing I use as prep, I suspect, to know what I 
mean ( but I don't mean this as a put down, so don't be insulted ).

Mad Chris.
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:57:43 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug19.225229.16476@u.washington.edu>, 
 mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:
> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:

> I think the strict-preparation argument is a little silly, because
> there's no way to prepare to such a level of detail that you won't have
> to improvise, so if improvisation is lethal to the campaign, all our
> campaigns are dead.

Read the rest of the thread and you'll find that no one has argued for
100% preparation in games. Most of the disagreement arose over whether
using 100% improv is healthy to a game. 

> You may decide the gem is there:  how many carats is it?  What clarity?  
> How many facets?  Is there [and so on]

Yes yes, you can improv all that stuff, no one has said you should even
try to get down to that level of prepared detail. What HAS been argued
is that the main ``checkpoints'' of the scenario should be in place 
before the game starts, so that players cannot influence the outcome
of the scenario with their input. And if you ask me, you should at least
examine and think about insignificant details (even if it's just deciding
what you will do if the character ask about ``x''). 
 
> It's just a question of how much improv you are comfortable with, and
> individual answers clearly vary a lot.

Yep. You just restated about half the posts in this thread. What some of
the posters are doing is agreeing that much of the issue is based on 
personal preference, but also agreeing to continue the discussion on a 
general level. See -- it's moved away from ``well, it works in my 
campaign'' and moved into ``generally speaking, this could be a problem.'' 

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K
Organization: Penn $tate Univer$ity
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:35:15 EDT
From: Brian Panulla, MooCow <BJP108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Music & Roleplaying
 <BstwyG.4Hv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

In my deceased Star Trek game, I always had the various movie soundtracks playi
ng in the back. My players knew as soon as the theme from ST: TMP came on, it
was time to get drinks and sit down to play.

The Captain of the starship USS Canterbury (Hi Pete!) had the annoying knack of
 subcontiously timing his Captain's Log entries with whatever music was playing
 in the bckgrnd. Quite dramatic....
______
Brian Panulla                                              Hail Sinfonia!
bjp108 @ psuvm.psu.edu / ender @ vivaldi.psu.edu / panulla @ math.psu.edu
(The opinions expressed above are mine alone, and do not reflect those of)
(Penn State University, or the Center for Academic Computing, so there!  )
From: dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:34:15 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug19.030145.18318@tronsbox.xei.com>
>	"Knowing the answer" is not enough.  When you see a magician do a
>trick, you already "know the answer" -- it's a trick.  You need to know the
>why's and how's and such.
>	Then the players are writing the adventure -- and that's YOUR job.

I am glad to see that the some people on the net never change.  It seems
strange to me that someone who spends their time trying to enjoy a pastime
the the vocal minority want condem would condem someone who palys in a
different game.

>	A properly written mystery has one and only one possible solution.  It
>must be impossible for any other solution to be valid -- the facts of the
>case must be such that only the intended solution is correct.
>	If I found out that my GM changed reality so that my "answer" was
>correct, I'd slit his throat and take away his dice.

How utterly grand.  Here is someone telling the rest of us how to act.  In
fact our little expert here has studied every possible example of every
mystery ever written or studied since the dawn of time.  He can now
conclude in his holier than thou statement that THE IS ONLY ONE CORRECT
SOLUTION.  Harvard gradutate maybe???

Someone with this type of attitude would never make it one session in
any of my games.  I have had to remove only one person from my game.  The
only other person who left moved 150miles to the south.  I have run
several mysteries where there were several correct answers.  In one of
those the PCs tracked down everyone and never even found the two most
damaging peices of evidence - Sherlock's method of sweating them out proved
effective.

[Name witheld to avoid any further embarassment to his family and friend]

Chip

-----------------------------\_/-----------------------------
 Elwood H Dunning III         |     I am a pirate, I don't
  GALACTIC COMMANDER          |           DO decency!!
--

-----------------------------\_/-----------------------------
 Elwood H Dunning III         |     I am a pirate, I don't
  GALACTIC COMMANDER          |           DO decency!!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
From: mikew@mdcbbs.com (Mike 'the Bard' Whitaker)
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:28:35 PDT
Organization: Shape Data - a division of EDS Ltd

In article <1992Aug19.164817.58273@cc.usu.edu> 
sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>In article <ceYKrJq00Vp44dCX0n@andrew.cmu.edu>, 
> William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> Hmm.
>> Improv: +flexibility, -chaotic, Allows many threads to be handled, Can
>> get confusing.
>> Prep: +structured, -narrow, Allows organized 'reality', Can be too narrow.
>
>Good summary. Prep scenarios can be too narrow, but I'd argue that it's
>easier to make a prep campaign flexible than it would be to make an 
>improv campaign organized.

The glib answer is  
	to make a prep. campaign flexible, you improvise.
	to make an improv. campaign organised, you prepare.

For all that I spend my time advocating improvisiation, I do prepare (just not
always on paper, sometimes only in my head (I'm blessed with a good memory for 
the more artisitic side (even if I can forget to take a book back to my
fiancee three weekends running! (coo, three (four) layers of brackets!)))). 

Good improvisation is hard - it requires experience, quick thinking and an
ability to parallel process. Good preparation, IMHO, is just as hard, but the
patience and attention to detail it requires don't come easy to the improv.
GM (at least the ones I know).
-- 
Mike Whitaker +44-223 | mikew@mdcbbs.com, bard@spuddy.uucp | Me: Bards just
Shape Data/EDS 316673 | -or- mwhitaker@cix.compulink.co.uk | KNOW things...
From: mosson@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: mosson@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)

> In article <batemanc.712853135@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>
batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
> >AMBER DICELESS SYSTEM...
> >There are two main types of anecdotes in RPing: Strange play and
Lucky Breaks.
> >Strange play can still happen in Amber: players coming up with
totally bizarre
> >and entertaining ways of solving problems. Lucky breaks can't. Ever
stopped to
> >think about some of the Lucky breaks anecdotes you've accumulated...?
> 
  What? hey, everybody around, don't believe this. AMBER is FULL of
lucky breaks (and
unluck breaks too). Ever considered what the STUFF was for? Lucky Breaks...

							Redwing.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: (amber question at bottom)  about Chaosites
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 17 Aug 92 04:49:38 GMT

In <1992Aug14.202442.10654@orionsci> goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin) writes:

>Question:

>Reading the stats on Merlin, Dara and other half chaosites, I was stunned.
>Merlin has chaos stats for all attributes except for psyche in which he
>has a measly 4!  Martin, sone of an amberite and a shadow human or some
>such is a normal amberite.  Merlin, the son of Corwin and a chaosite is
>a wimp (attribute wise).  Same with Dara.  What gives?  Sounds like an
>error to me!

Its so consistent through the game, though, that I tend to doubt
its an error.  The whole deal with the Chaosites' (Courtesans'?)
stats seems unfair to me.  The Courts are supposed to be as
'real' as Amber, and every bit as powerful.  Why is Chaos rank
lower than Amber rank?

Personally, if'n I were to run a game, I'd change the stats
systems to Ranked, Family, and Citizen, rather than Ranked,
Amber, and Chaos.  Family rank being the standard for members of
both ruling families, and Citizen being the rank for a citizen of
either place.

I'd also make the Logrus powers equal the Pattern powers in both
points and abilities.  But that's just me.
--
"Now then: cretins.  Cretins don't even talk; they sort of
slobber and stumble.  You know, the guy who presses the ice cream
cone against his forehead, or enters a reolving door the wrong
way."
	  -Jacopo Belbo
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 20:05:37 GMT


In the campaign I just finished, I had everything very well
outlined.  However, there would be times where  they would finish
a  section, and they weren't ready to quit, and yet the next
section was too long to start.   SOOOO, I would let them run around
town  and do what they wanted and maake up  what I needed to.
This led to  a great deal of fun, and gave me an opportunity to
give them little hints/clues to the larger scope of things.

Of course, this led to one of the town armories being burnt  to
the ground, but they enjoyed in (now they've made notes  on their
sheets that they  are budding pyromaniacs).  Also,  I'll make up
festivals or  other scenarios to run them through.  The  best
thing about these improv sessions is they rarely got experience,
but roleplayed  a great deal.  It was a great way for them to
develop their role-pplaying skills (and mine as well).

I'd say 25-30% of my campaigns are improv, although that might go
up as high as 50% when the opportunity presents itself.
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ADELEKTA@kentvm.kent.edu
Subject: Sorcery and Amber
Organization: Kent State Univ.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:35:35 GMT

 
  I've been playing a lot of Amber lately, and I'm having a problem.
 
When I created my character, I spent most of my points on getting ranked in
attributes (1st in Warfare and Endurance, 2nd in Strength). I also took
Pattern Imprint, an artifact, and good stuff.
 I thought this would be an average player character. Wrongo.
 
The other characters in my party took things such as logrus mastery, sorcery,
and power words, accepting Amber or even chaos rank in attributes. Next to
them, I feel like I can't do anything except hit things with a sword. (which
was kind of the point of the character)
 Am I just being cranky because the other characters get to do neat and arcane
things?  Could I be doing more with Patern Imprint than just shifting shadows?
(I've tried reading up on it, but the other abilities that come with Pattern
Imprint seem difficult to incorporate into playing).
 Am I just whining, or can someone give me some advice to make this character
more fun and useful to play?
Thanks.
 
anne
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Curious about .frp
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:30:03 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Just wondering how many people have:

A). Given up on rec.games.frp because it is supposedly going to 
    be deleted.
B). Given up on rec.games.frp because now there are the split 
    groups to post in.
C). Given up on rec.games.frp because your site doesn't get it
    anymore.

It's just that there used to be about ten zillion posts per day on
that group, but now there are only about 10 posts per day, most of
them dealing with Bill Clinton..

Okay,
+  Chadd  L.  VanZanten   SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  +
+  ``You know,  I thought this was a good   +
+  idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  +
+                    -- TV's Frank, MST3K   +

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Timothy D Little)
Subject: Re: See the light
Keywords: Light Intensity
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:14:21 GMT

hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:

>I'm trying to put together a table of light intensities for various sources,
> [...]

I would also be interested in this data.

>When I have sufficient values, I'm going to put them into a log table that can
>be used to compute the effectiveness of a light source at a specific distance.
>(Ex: can a camp fire be used for reading at a distance of 10 yards, etc.)

>I'd greatly appreciate it if you could send me some meaningful data on various
>light sources. It would be helpful if the data was in foot-lamberts, but I can

Just out of curiosity, what on Earth is a 'foot-lambert'?

My physics text (with otherwise very complete conversion tables) doesn't give
them a mention.  What is the conversion factor between this unit and 'visible
Watts'?

>convert if necessary. I already have some data, but more numbers would be
>useful as a verification. Please list your sources.

Could you send me the data you already have?
--
Timothy D Little   a.k.a.   u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
"I'm a Tasmanian." - Yahoo Serious, in the film Young Einstein.
From: cpbeaure@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Beauregard)
Subject: Re: SRun: Mag 3 Cyber Eyes in Combat
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:38:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183343.13496@samba.oit.unc.edu> rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes:
>For .1 essense or less and 11,000 Y, I have no intention of letting 
>them reduce the firearm range of every combat to short.  Is this the 
>general concensus of the net.srun.gurus?  Help a poor beginning 
>Shadowrun GM.

Someone mentioned a while back that vision magnifiers can't be used with
Smartgun links.  I think that applied mostly to scopes, because I can't
see how you'd limit an integrated optical system.  You could rule that
unless the character dumps a lot of nuyen into his optics (say, double
or so) he can't have both systems active at once.  You could also do
this with Thermographic and Smartgun, Rangefinders, whatever.  

>Rick Hunt
>rhunt@med.unc.edu

Chris Beauregard                                cpbeaure@napier.waterloo.edu
Warning:  These premises protected by reality.
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:50:16 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I'm not that keen on GM-given gaming props (pretty maps, trinkets and
jewelry, photos and so forth).  They tend to jar me out of thinking in
my character's persona into focusing on the real world.  I'm personally
just as happy with a hasty pencil sketch on scratch paper as with a
lovingly designed parchment map--maybe happier.

On the other hand, some groups love them.  I just wanted to make the
point that this isn't universal, and if your players hate props, there's
not much point spending your prep time making them.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine)
Subject: GURPS: Close combat
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:39:08 GMT

 
A friend and I have Basic and Martial Arts, and we were trying
some mock combats that used close combat and martial arts attacks
and we came up wiht some questions that aren't easily answered,
and we're not sure of the correct "common sense" adjudication --
at least, we disagree on the common sense interpretation.
 
Two characters.
One: ST 8, DX 15, IQ 12, HT11, Judo 15, Karate 15.
Two: ST 14, DX 15, IQ 9, HT 13, no close combat skills.
 
Two grabs One in two-handed grapple.
 
One does grapple on Two (now they're both grappling each other)
and initiates an Arm Lock.
 
The arm lock is successful.
 
Questions:
 
* Does Two, who is arm-locked, lose his grip on One, at least with
the arm-locked hand?
 
* Can Two still attempt a takedown of One, even though he is in an
Arm Lock? If so, wouldn't it be more difficult? What would be an
appropriate modifier?

Further along, One still has an armlock on Two, One cripples
Two's arm.
 
Questions:
 
Is the arm lock rendered ineffective now, because One is holding
onto a crippled arm?
 
Can Two attempt a takedown when his arm his crippled? Is so,
wouldn't it be more difficult? What would be an appropriate
modifier?
 
Thanks,
 
Stu Castergine

-- 
scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -- Stuart M. Castergine
Fiver: "Oh, Hazel, look! The field! It's covered with blood!"
Hazel: "Don't be silly, it's only the light of the sunset." -- Watership Down