From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.120106.12136@sei.cmu.edu> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.173003.6057@tc.fluke.COM> nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:
>
>>Divine inspiration is what the bible claims of itself.  When the bible 
>>claims  that "all scripture is inspired" (theopneustos-literally God breathed) 
>>it is claiming *what is written* is true.
>
>Nonsense.  It is claiming that what is written is inspired.  The same claim
>was made by Milton of 'Paradise Lost'.  The same claim, using the exact
>same greek word, was made of the Iliad of Homer; any Hellene who on this
>basis asserted that, say, the 'Catalogue of Ships' was literal truth
>would have been laughed out of the agora.
>
>"inspired" doesn't mean "literal": poetry is inspired; drama is inspired -
>and so on for the rest of the Nine.  Scripture itself tells you as much:
>"for the letter killeth; but the spirit giveth life".

It is not nonsense.  It is painted on just about every page of the bible.
Even the verse 2Tim3:16 in which says that "all scripture is inspired",
continues on and says it is useful for *correcting*.  How can it correct
if it is not the truth?  

The bible does not claim some sort of "poetic" inspiration, or enthusiasm,
or 'uplifting'.  It claims it can teach, rebuke, and correct.


Here's a ***BRIEF*** look at its claims.  

The scriptures were considered absolutely sacred--just look at Psalm 119.
Moses placed the law by the ark of God (Deu 10:2).  It
was preserved in a tabernacle for future generations
(Deu 6:2).  The prophet was a man of God(1Ki12:22)
a messenger of God (Is 42:19), a seer (Is 30:10) 
a man of the Spirit (Hos 9:7), a watchman(Eze 3:17).
One prophet said, 'I could not go beyond the command of the Lord
my God, to do less or more'(Num 22:18).
The prophets were not to take or add to the word given by God: (Deu 4:2)
"You shall not add to the word which I command you nor take away from it"
God commands the scriptures not to depart from the Israelites mouth:
"This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth"  (Jos 24:26)
Joshua, wrote words 'in the law of God'  (Jos 24:26)
When the king burned Jeremiah's first written message to him, the Lord 
ordered the prophet to 'take another scroll and write on it all the 
former words that were in the first scroll' (Jer 36:28)
According to Exodus 20:1, 'God spake these words.', and is repeated
many times in Leviticus(1:1 for example).  The rest of the O.T.
declares the Mosaic books given by God--Judges referes to the
writings as 'commandments of the Lord' (3:4).
Samuel acknowledged that God had appointed Moses 1Sam 12:6)
the Latter prophets are bound in inspiration with the phrase
(Thus saith the Lord....).  Daniel recognizes Jeremiah's book as 
inspired (Dan 9:2)....Ezra recognized Jeremiah (Ezra 1:1)
Zechariah refers to Moses and the prophets who preceded him calling 
their works 'The law and the words which the Lord of hosts had 
sent by his Spirit through the former prophets' (7:12)
Proverbs 30:5 says:
Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take 
refuge in him.  Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and 
prove you a liar.
Psalm 12:6 says:
And the words of the Lord are flawless; like silver refined in a furnace 
of clay, purified seven times.
Psalm 18:30 says:
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless.
2Sam 22:31 says:
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless.  
The bible speaks with authority of God, the Lord sayeth, it
is written; Jesus used scripture in Deuteronomy to rebuke the devil.

In the New Testament:  Consider the following:
Jesus said, ' I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, 
not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any 
means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished'.
Paul said, '*All* scripture is inspired of God' (2Tim3:16)
Jesus said 'The scripture cannot be broken' John 10:35
Paul argued from the scriptures (Acts 17:2)
Paul refused to tamper with the word of God (2Cor 4:2)
Hebrews states the word of God is living and active. (Heb 4:12)
Jesus came to fulfill scripture (Mt 5:17)
Revelations warns those not to take anything away or add anything to
the book (Rev 22:18-19)
Jesus said, 'But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit whom the
Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and
bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you' (John 14:26)
and:
When He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all 
truth. (John 16:13)
Also, Jesus said of his disciples, 'He who hears you hears me, and he 
who rejects you rejects me' (Luke 10:16)
Peter classified Paul's writings as scripture 2Pet 3:16
and Paul quotes Luke's gospel, calling it scripture 1 Tim 5:18 
quoting Luke 10:7  and Paul gives his own writings authority as 
scripture (1Tim 4:11,13.)
The book of Hebrews declares that the God who spoke of old through 
prophets has in these last days spoken to us about salvation through 
His Son (Heb 1:2)
Peter wrote that prophetic wriings came by divine inspiration (2Pet 1:21)
John calls his book a 'prophecy and classes himself among 
the prophets (rev 22:18-19)
New Testament prophets are listed along with the apostles as foundation
of the church.
John recorded his words that men may believe that Jesus is the Christ, `
the Son of God and that believing may have life in his name (Jn 20:31)
He adds his testimony is true. (Jn 21:24)

Acts presents itself as an authoritative account of what Jesus continued 
to do and teach through the apostles (Acts 1:1).  This too, was seen as 
fulfillment of OT prophecy (Acts 2:16 and Joel 2:28)
Since Paul quoted Luke's gospel as scripture (1Tim 5:18), it is
evident that both Paul and Luke considered continuation of that 
account in Acts to be divinely authoritative as well.

In Romans Paul claims to have the divine claim as an apostle (Romans 1:1-3), 
and concludes that his writing is prophetic (Rom 16:26)
1Cor is concluded 'What I am writing to you is a command of
the Lord' (1Cor14:37).  Paul introduces 2Cor by repeating his claim 
to apostleship.


Biblical "inspiration" is more than just a feel good attitude;  Milton
would hardly claim that Paradise Lost should be consider the "word of
God".  But the authors of the bible clearly identify scripture as such,
useful for rebuking, teaching and correcting.

Now you can reject its claims, but it doesn't change what it claims, does it?

-Arnold Nordeng
nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4350 alt.alien.visitors:6625 sci.skeptic:16407