HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdubois@nis.Naitc.Com (Tom Dubois)
Subject: This could happen to YOU! Need Internet in London
Followup-To: tdubois@nis.naitc.com 
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 21:50:06 GMT

Help!
I just learned that I am being assigned to our office in High Wycombe, England.
This is outside of London, towards Oxford.  
How can I gain access to the Internet easily and cheaply using either a PC 
clone or Macintosh?  
The phone exchange is 494-422xxx, if that's important.

I'm sure this has been answered before, but you never pay until attention 
until you really need to.  Thanks for any advice.

Tom DuBois
Phone (708) 317-4288
Nielsen Market Research
 
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: pallantj@unvax.union.edu (Joseph C. Pallante)
Subject: Albany (518) area?
Organization: Union College, Schenectady, NY
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 21:48:53 GMT

I know of PSI, which has a local (518) dialin, but they provide
they type of service where you configure what you are looking for
offline (ie, the ftp server you want to get a file from, the 
newsgroups you would like to read, etc), then you call up, and 
all info is transfered to your PC.  Very awkward if you want to
look for a file at some ftp sites....  Gotta list the sites
you want to check, and then the directory.... Log on...  Log off...
Check the directory offline... Decide what file(s) you want...
Log back on, and get the file...

Anyway....  If anyone send me in the direction of an Albany NY (518)
access, I would appreciate it.  I am not looking for free access,
but am looking for access within my area code.

Thank You!

Joe

Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph Sims)
Subject: Re: SLIP Connection
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:57:11 GMT

vpoy@terapin.com (Vincent Poy) writes:

>either via a local dialup or via a toll free 1-800 dialup... Does anyone also
>have a list of Educational Institutions in the San Francisco Bay Area? Thanks!

Try the telephone books.

-- 
     halcyon.com, Public Access Internet, Seattle, WA, +1 206 382 6245
                 "A World of Information at your Fingertips"
                 P.O. Box 555, Grapeview, WA 98546-0555, USA
                    ralphs@halcyon.com,  +1 206 955 1050
From: vpoy@terapin.com (Vincent Poy)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: SLIP Connection
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:44:38 GMT
Organization: BBS

I am looking for a Low Cost SLIP Connection in the San Francisco Bay Area
either via a local dialup or via a toll free 1-800 dialup... Does anyone also
have a list of Educational Institutions in the San Francisco Bay Area? Thanks!
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: lucas@teal.csn.org (Rick Lucas)
Subject: Woodacre/San Rafael access
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:14:51 GMT

     A friend in the Woodacre, California area (San Rafael is local) is
trying to determine what Internet access options are available to him.
I've already sent him the PDIAL file; He's interested in what systems
exist in the area in either the .edu or .com domains as well.

Rick Lucas (rlucas@bvsd.co.edu [preferred] or lucas@teal.csn.org)
Debate Coach, Fairview HS, Boulder, CO
Teaching others to argue almost anything with almost anyone.

Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: hrlaser@netcom.com (H.R. Laser)
Subject: Re: PC Pursuit
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:33:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.044358.11352@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>
>What is PC Pursuit?
>
>I heard about it in reference to using it to connect to somewhat distant
>internet sites.  Is this some way to get around paying long distance
>charges from a small town without a local dialup number to a big town with
>one?


PCPursuit is a service of SprintNet. SprintNet is an X25 packet
switched network available in hundreds of US cities. You would normally
use it to connect to a host, who would bundle SprintNet's charges 
with their own in their billing to you. 

PCPursuit is an account you buy directly from and pay for directly
to SprintNet. You buy hours in blocks of 30 hours a month for $30,
or 60 hours a month for $50, or those who qualify for the handicapped
plan can buy 90 hours a month for $30.
You can't buy less than 30 hours a month.
You can't buy more than 60 hours a month, unless you qualify for
the handicapped deal.

Those hours can then be used for two things:

1) connect to a local SprintNet indial node and use it to dial
another city's outdial node and then use that other city's modem
to connect to a BBS in that other city. For example, I could
be in L.A. and connect to and use a BBS in NYC or Florida or
wherever for $1 an hour during off-peak hours (evenings, weekends,
designated holidays).

2) connect directly to a host system without using the indial/outdial
routine. This would allow me to, for example, make a direct
connection with The Portal System in Cupertino, CA, for $1 an
hour (off peak) and then use whatever their facility offered
(which happens to include their front end system, Usenet, Full
Internet (FTP, IRC, etc. etc.) net email, and so on. Of course
one would need to pay not only one's SprintNet/PCP charges (above)
but also the host's charges if any, in the case of Portal, they
charge a flat $19.95 a month for full access and no limits.

Portal, and some other services, are called PCPursuit DAFs - 
direct access facilities, since you can use your PCP hours
to connect to Portal directly without going thru two cities'
modems. As you might guess, dialing a modem in another city,
and then using that modem to dial a host would induce more
delays/slowdowns than dialing the host directly. 

At any rate, that's basically it in a nutshell. 

Holler if you have more questions. 

Harv
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 14:30:14 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Re: Access in the Orlando Area Wanted
Distribution: na
 <BzpypK.Inu@gator.use.com>

In article <BzpypK.Inu@gator.use.com>, larry@gator.use.com (Larry Snyder) says:
>We plan on bringing full IP to Orlando in May, however -- we haven't
>decided if and how we plan to market it.  I would rather do a CO-OP,
>but I don't know if I could get enough support.

I've been considering for some time the possible of establishing a public
access internet site in Orlando.  If you're serious, we should talk.
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Does Yale have a mail/news gateway
Date: 2 Jan 93 23:31:07 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@acs.bu.edu


Hello

I was able to access the Yale main bboard, however, I was unable to access
the individual news boards. How can I do it from the internet. Are there email
address for the individual news boards. For example, Stanford news boards
can be reached through the internet or by sending mail to i.e. su-etc@shelby.
stanford.edu.  How can I do this for Yale?

regards
Neil Schier


Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: msagi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jozsef Hollosi /HIX/)
Subject: *** WANTED *** -- SLIP providers --
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:59:59 GMT

I am looking for regional or national Internet providers for the (908) 571-xxxx
area in New Jersey. I need a low-speed (let's say V.32bis) connection via
either a dedicated or non-dedicated line.

Thanks for any help,
Jozsef
<msagi@phoenix.princeton.edu>

Ui.: Personal experiences and suggestions are greatly appreciated, too.
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: shl@ais.org (Stephen Landman)
Subject: Canada Freenets?
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:32:43 GMT

I've read that Canada is starting freenets in some cities, with
internet access.  I need info specifically for Ottawa and
Toronto. Thanks.
shl@ais.org

Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph Sims)
Subject: Re: SLIP Connection
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:00:22 GMT

vpoy@terapin.com (Vincent Poy) writes:

>>>what exactly do I look under in the telephone book?

>>Well, try the Yellow Pages under 'schools'.  Why is this so hard?  We went
>>through this before when you asked the net the same question.  You received
>>the same answers (from me, it was a post here and in email to you).

>The hard part is the San Francisco Telephone books doesn't even mention real
>Universities or Educational Institutions like UCSF, USF or even SFSU, they
>mention only those schools that are like a Heald Business College type...

Try under the various Government sections:  San Francisco, City of...
California, State of...

Call the library and ask the folks in the reference section.  Drive to
the campuses and walk around, ask questions.

-- 
     halcyon.com, Public Access Internet, Seattle, WA, +1 206 382 6245
                 "A World of Information at your Fingertips"
                 P.O. Box 555, Grapeview, WA 98546-0555, USA
                    ralphs@halcyon.com,  +1 206 955 1050
From: br365@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Justin W. Richards)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: dialout service, and uucp
Date: 21 Dec 1992 21:34:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am looking for a couple things.  
First off, I need to know where to find UUCP connections (prefer free, or 
very low cost) for Lincoln, Nebr.
 
I also would like to know about any dialout services located in the 
Toledo, Oh. area, (free would be great!!, but let me know about any!!)
 
thanks
-- 
Justin Richards  br365@cleveland.freenet.edu
	    ---------------------
	    ---==*FEC AMIGA*==---
	    ---------------------
From: jesse@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Jesse Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Vermont access.wanted
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:27:30 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

I have a friend who's a student at Marlboro College in Marlboro
Vermont. He's looking for both inexpensive personal local access
and access for the College. If anyone knows of anything good,
please reply by email to this address. Thanks in advance :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, you may see me tonight with an illegal smile |    Jesse Davis     |
 It don't cost very much but it lasts a long while  |jesse@picasso.ocis. |
 Oh please tell the man I didn't kill anyone,       |       temple.edu   |
 Well I'm just trying to have me some fun."--J Prine|     215-545-3724   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: scease@worldbank.org (Sean Cease)
Subject: Access wanted in Paris France
Followup-To: alt.internet.access.wanted
Organization: Worldbank.org
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:55:19 GMT

My mother, who lives in Paris is interested in getting connected to
Internet..does anyone know how she can go about it?
Any and all help is appreciated.
Sean
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted,oau.news,fl.general
From: larry@gator.use.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Access in the Orlando Area Wanted
Organization: Gator Communications - Feeds-R-Us 219-289-3745 
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:32:04 GMT

<FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:

>I've been considering for some time the possible of establishing a public
>access internet site in Orlando.  If you're serious, we should talk.

There currently are several public access sites in Orlando, none of
which are directly on the internet.  We plan on bringing IP to Orlando
in May (May 15th is the target) and if there is enough interest, we would
be willing on serving as a hub (and could increase the bandwidth)..

Right now, I'm looking at $350/month for a SLIP/PPP link.  56kb would be
in the $800/month range.  I need a couple of sites willing to split the
$800 in order to make that kind of payment.  On top of the $800 would be
the charges from my house (South Orlando) to yours -- and you would need
to supply the modem for both ends of the circuit if you want a dedicated
link.  Otherwise, we will have multiple (dynamically allocated) Worldblazers,
so your IP address would vary depending on your inbound line.  This is fine
for outbound traffic from your machine, but not for inbound (unless we were
set up as  MX for your machine).  There are lots of options.  Like you
said, if we are interested, we need to talk.  My voice number is 219-232-5497.

FYI -- in the event you reply via email --
Our IP link will be down for the next 4 days as the Alternet T1 from VA to
Indy is going down for POP work on the routers and such.

Happy holidays -- larry

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.use.com
keeper of the Gator                                   uucp: uunet!gator!larry
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: cknight@nmt.edu (Chris Knight)
Subject: Access wanted in PA (215), Philly, and suburbs
Summary: see subject line
Keywords: wanted, PA, 215, Philadelphia
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 01:58:11 GMT

Looking for Publicly accessable access for a friend who wants to
keep internet access after a layoff.  Would like mor then e-mail
access.


						Thanks in advance
						Chris Knight
						cknight@nmt.edu

Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: kelley@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (Sean Kelley)
Subject: Internet/Usenet
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc., Nashua, NH
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:39:34 GMT

I'm looking for;
 
   1) FAQ on this group (or ftp site where it can be found)
   2) Information regarding access to Internet from a PC at home.
      with a) E-Mail
           b) Usenet (NNTP news)
           c) ftp
 
I'm aware of Compuserv and MCI mail, but they only offer E-Mail.
 
             Many Thanks,
 
                       ,
                     SEAN


--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  ,
SEAN KELLEY            INTERNET: kelley@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com

Mission Computers,
Avionics Division,     
Lockheed-Sanders, Inc.
Nashua, NH               
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rock-Chalk JayHawk KU!!!!!!!!!!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: muoto@aludra.usc.edu ("Olivetti")
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Access in Malaysia
Date: 24 Dec 1992 17:23:47 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu



Anybody know of any public access internet in Malaysia or Singapore.
A friend of mine of returning home in January and would like some
way to continue using e-mail and internet.  If you know of any
please e-mail.  Thanks in advance.

Oliver Muoto
From: xbaquero@ecnet.ec
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Access in the Capitals of the World
Date: 2 Jan 1993 23:40:33 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



We need Internet SLIP dial-up access in as many capitals
of the world as possible.
We prefer services with a monthly fee (not by message volume).
Appreciate info on this.

Xavier Baquero
Quito, Ecuador
From: Michael Wroobel <michaelw@jaflrn.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Telnet
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 02:51:09 EST
Organization: The Wizzard's Cave, East Meadow, NY

Hello Everyone, I have a question.  I am new to UUCP newsgroups and internet 
in general, and I wish to know about how to get access to Telnet, what is 
involved, how much it costs, etc.  I have someone I would like to xfer info 
with, and I was told to       TELNET  ...............
All help would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
From: vpoy@terapin.com (Vincent Poy)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Re: SLIP Connection
Date: 2 Jan 93 00:05:58 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1993Jan2.035711.20271@nwnexus.WA.COM>, ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph
Sims) writes:
>vpoy@terapin.com (Vincent Poy) writes:
>
>>either via a local dialup or via a toll free 1-800 dialup... Does anyone also
>>have a list of Educational Institutions in the San Francisco Bay Area?
Thanks!
>
>Try the telephone books.
>
>-- 
>     halcyon.com, Public Access Internet, Seattle, WA, +1 206 382 6245
>                 "A World of Information at your Fingertips"
>                 P.O. Box 555, Grapeview, WA 98546-0555, USA
>                    ralphs@halcyon.com,  +1 206 955 1050
what exactly do I look under in the telephone book?
From: dougnews@access.digex.com (Doug Humphrey)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Re: Greater DC Area
Date: 25 Dec 1992 01:14:03 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <63014@mimsy.umd.edu> jochen@cs.umd.edu (Jochen Heyland) writes:
>I have a friend looking cheap internet access (mainly for mail) in the
>greater Washington DC area.
>				Thanks
>					Jochen

Digital Express Group provides Internet access for a fee in both 
the Washington DC and Baltimore areas.  Information on the services
and rates can be obtained by sending mail to   info@digex.com
or by calling our offices at (301) 220-2020.

I am sure that we can provide your friend an email account, or an
IP access account, for a reasonable rate and with quality service.


-- 
Doug Humphrey    Express Access Public Access Internet   Voice (301) 220-2020
doug@digex.com   Dialup: (301) 220-0462 Login as "new"   Email info@digex.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I say it again, in the land of the free; use your freedom of choice." - DEVO
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: allan@sunk.hc.ti.com (Allan Poindexter)
Subject: News and Mail access in the San Antonio area
Organization: TI Computer Science Center, Dallas
Distribution: alt, tx
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:42:04 GMT


Does anyone know of any free or flat fee access in San Antonio?  I have
a couple of people who I would like to get connected.

dex
From: cm945@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric C. Totherow)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Internet acess in 209 area code?
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:41:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know of a place that sells internet acess in the
209 area code.  Dosen't have to be a high speed line.  Anything
would be nice really.
 
-- 
/       Eric Totherow        | "A common mistake that people make when trying\
|         Internet:          |  to design something completely foolproof was |
|   totherow@nes.nersc.gov   |  to underestimate the ingenuity of complete   |
\ cm945@cleveland.freenet.edu|  fools."      -Douglas Adams                  /
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: randy@halcyon.com (C. Brandon Gresham)
Subject: Re: email/Internet in FINLAND
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 08:13:33 GMT

davorinf@spot.tv.tek.com (Davorin Fundak) writes:


>Please send me information about email and internet newsgroup access for my friend in Helsinki, Finland.  He currently has access only to his employer's (Citibank) private international network.


Providers Based in the United States of 
America
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Alternet	US and International
	UUNET 		(800) 4UUNET3	
alternet-info@uunet.uu.net

ANS		US and International
	Joel Maloff	(313) 663-7610	
info@ans.net

CERFnet		Western US and International
	CERFnet Hotline	(800) 876-2373	
help@cerf.net

International Connections Manager (ICM) International
	Robert Collet	(703) 
904-2230	rcollet@icm1.icp.net 

JVNCnet		US and International
	Sergio Heker	(800) 35TIGER	
market@jvnc.net
        Allison Pihl

PSINet		US and International
	PSI, Inc.	(800) 82PSI82	
info@psi.com

------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Providers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

EUnet           Europe, CIS-region, and Northern Africa
	EUnet Support   
+31 20 592-5124 glenn@eu.net


randy@halcyon.com
From: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Re: *** WANTED *** -- SLIP providers --
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:37:33 GMT
Reply-To: dave@intercon.com (Dave Saunders)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: dave.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b30

In article <1992Dec27.215959.18524@Princeton.EDU>, 
msagi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jozsef Hollosi /HIX/) writes:
> I am looking for regional or national Internet providers for 
> the (908) 571-xxxx area in New Jersey. I need a low-speed (let's say 
> V.32bis) connection via either a dedicated or non-dedicated line. 

PSI provides a SLIP dial-up service with access points all over the US.

Dave




----------------------------------
Dave Saunders <dave@intercon.com>
InterCon Systems Corporation
"Standards-based networking for a standards-based world"
When your IQ rises to 28, sell. --Professor Irwin Corey to a heckler
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: hrlaser@netcom.com (H.R. Laser)
Subject: Re: PC Pursuit
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:41:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.174756.16992@src4src.linet.org> zaphod@src4src.linet.org (Steve Wechsler) writes:
>
>Anyone know the maximum baud rate that PC pursuit can handle?
>
>-- 
>Steve Wechsler | zaphod@src4src.linet.org    |    Call Lady Hawke's Castle BBS:

2400bps if using outdial/indial method to connect to another city
 to dial a BBS in that city
9600bps if using outdial only to connect to a DAF host or to PCP's
 own 24-hour free BBS for registered users.

Harv
From: mikael@terapin.com (Mikael Andersson)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Internet access
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:32:20 PST
Organization: BBS

I am looking for internet access in sweden. Anyone who can help me?
 
mikael
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted,biz.comp.services
From: tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
Subject: Germany
Date: 30 Dec 1992 05:34:15 -0600
Organization: Tweek-Com Systems BBS, Moraga, CA (510) 631-0615
Reply-To: alizard%tweekco%boo@ns.PacBell.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

 
I'm looking for a low-cost Internet mail node in this part of
Germany for a German friend:
 
W-4200 Oberhausen 11 Germany
 
(I don't know German snail-mail addressing that well, so please
extract the parts of the address that make sense...)
 
If you can send me access information for a BBS or whatever in
that area, I'd really appreciate it.
 
Please respond via E-mail to the address in the sig file, as I
don't have direct access to this newsgroup.
 
thanks
A.Lizard

------------------------------------------------------------------
A.Lizard Internet Addresses:
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM        (preferred)
[path]!pacbell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above)
alizard@seer.mystic.com (backup)   alizard@Blue.Kludge.com (backup)
PGP2.0 public key available on request.

Newsgroups: alt.internet.access.wanted
From: blumb@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Bill Blum)
Subject: Internet access wanted in Elkhart, IN. (219) areacode
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tommorrow
Distribution: in
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 00:50:53 GMT

Well, I'm looking for internet access in the (219) areacode, preferably
localdial from elkhart.

I just need access to mail, and USENET newsgroups.





Please reply via email.

-- 
Bill Blum, blumb@sage.cc.purdue.edu  Student, School of Nuclear Engineering
Member, SEDS National Board.  Model Rocketeer, SF Reader, amateur fishkeeper
The meek can *have* the Earth.  The rest of us are going to the stars.-Heinlein
You'll never do more than survive until you expect it.-10,000 Maniacs