HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: God help pakistan
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:11:50 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <4f3y2le00iV3M2I35M@andrew.cmu.edu> ac46+@andrew.cmu.edu (Asad Iqbal) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 22-Nov-92 Re: God help
>pakistan by Nadeem Jamali@newton.ccs 
>>  
>> Nonsense...
>Really.......
>>  
>> How can she win a no-confidence motion in a parliament elected as a result
>> of rigged elections???
>And why do you think they were rigged.....do you have substantial
>proof...even the US monitoring team said they weren't rigged so there
>>  

Would you support her *IF* the elections in fact were rigged, or would
you still insist that she table a no-confidence in the parliament. I'm assuming
even you don't have "substantial" proof that the elections were not rigged.
And BTW, I never knew that US monitoring team was sent by Allah... Do you
really believe their saying something can be used as substantial proof? When
do you call something a proof anyway.

>> Aren't we forgetting what happenned in 1990.... The incumbent Prime Minister
>> was removed. The leader of the opposition was made the caretaker Prime
>Ministe
>> r
>> and given the responsibility to hold fair-and-free elections... Has anyone
>> heard of something so ridiculous before... 
>And what is so ridiculous about that. Its the law that states that
>anyone can be appointed caretaker PM and it just so hppens that a
>corrupt govenment was thrown out and I don't think anyone in the right
>mind would appoint somebody from the same camp as PM

I never suggested that someone from her camp be appointed caretaker PM. I still
find appointing someone from the opposition as ridiculous. Someone less partisan
could have been tried. And please don't tell me there aren't any unbiased people
in Pakistan.

Moreover, what substantial proof do you have about Ms. Bhutto's government's
being corrupt?? I have been trying to follow the cases on Mr. Zardari and I
am not really aware of a single case on which he has been proven guilty... so
far, all decisions have been showing him innocent.

>>  
>> How can any sane person expect fair and free elections after this... 
>Well if that's the case then no elections can be considered fair unless
>the incumbent loses.......

Wrong again... please read what I have said above... appointing the opposition
leader as caretaker PM does indeed say much more than that...

>>  
>> Nadeem
>
>Asad Iqbal

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7527  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:16883 soc.culture.bangladesh:6071
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:16:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: sarah.1992Nov18.181636.21665
Organization: State University of New York at Albany

In article <1edur4INNq8a@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) went on about...
>Circles?  Geez, some people really aren't reading the articles...  I
>have shown very clearly how the Ahmadiya claim to being Muslim
>violates the very definition of Islam itself.  If you can show
>otherwise, do so.  Otherwise, please refrain from circular arguing
>which avoids the real issues.

I have been watching debate for some time (even participated for a while).
The point you keep missing, Shakil, is that people don't seem to think
you have shown anything very clearly.  In fact, many people seem to have
quite a conflict with what you have shown.  You show things according
to your own interpretation.  What you keep missing is that your interpretation
is not the be-all-and-end-all of Islam.  These other people, who *gasp* don't
agree with you, have as much of a right to call their interpretations Islam.

Now, they don't have to prove anything to *you*.  If they are convinced of
the validity of their interpretations, all they need to do is wait for
God to render the final verdict.  While the case is pending, they have as
much of a right to assign 'Islam' to their ideas as you do yours.

Yasmin


-- 
**************************************************************************
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *           .sig undergoing          *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            reconstruction          *
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@engr.UVic.CA (Amyn  Hussain)
Subject: Re: Latest news on the March.
Reply-To: ahussain@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:05:38 GMT

In article 10302@galileo.cc.rochester.edu, ousi_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Omer Usmani) writes:
>
> Benazir has been arrested and the march has been stopped. Hundreds of
>police made roadblocks and stopped all incoming traffic to the Capital.
>   Benazir and her entourage when they tried to run one of the blockades 
>were attacked and latthi-charged. 
>  I saw all of this on the NBC and ABC evening news. They said that many 
>western embassies had requested her to stop the march calling it foolish
>(this is an internal Paki matter what right have those idiots to interfere.)
>  Anyway the lathi-charge was quite bad from what I saw, Benazir had her 
>dupatta pulled off and then arrested. This is after she got into her 
>Land Cruiser and (I assume) was trying to leave. The police promptly pulled
>her out and arrested her.
>  Personally I'm not her fan but really Nawaz should have shown more decency
>and sensitivity especially as she was a woman.
>
>   THATS ALL FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>Omer.........


I agree that Nawaz should not have done that and I am not a fan of
Nawaz either, but frankly speaking, it looks like the country is 
running better in the hands of Nawaz in comparison to what Benazir did.
Other than that I am sure that Nawaz had no idea that the police is going
to pull Benazir out of her Jeep otherwise he would have told the police to
leave her dupatta on her head and kindly requested to get herself arrested.
NOT.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:16866 soc.culture.bangladesh:6063
From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:34:28 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <1992Nov18.163444.13065@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> In article <1ebrtkINNodb@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:

> >I don't even have a problem with their *believing* that, even though I
> >think it is inconsistent with their own beliefs.  What I *do* have a
> >problem with is their publicly associating with Muslims under the same
> 		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >umbrella as would be the case if the newsgroup were approved under
> >that name.  It would make things so much simpler to take on
> >soc.religion.ahmadiya, just like the Bahais did with their group.

> Boy! We are really going in circles here. Why should one try to hide 
> their identity (irrespective of whether it is a true/false sense of 
> identity) ?  Why should'nt they publicly declare it so if they really
> believe they are muslims ? I fully agree that their beliefs may be 
> inconsistent by your standards and perhaps even by my standards if I 
> analyzed their beliefs (but so are many of the beliefs of muslims 
> by the standards of people belonging to other religions). However, that 
> still does not seem to be any valid reason to not permit them to call 
> themselves whatever they want to unless it poses a danger to your set 
> of beliefs in any way. Does it ?

Circles?  Geez, some people really aren't reading the articles...  I
have shown very clearly how the Ahmadiya claim to being Muslim
violates the very definition of Islam itself.  If you can show
otherwise, do so.  Otherwise, please refrain from circular arguing
which avoids the real issues.

-- Shakil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Was Bhutto an elected Prime Minister ?  No Way !!!!
From: A.Qadir@massey.ac.nz (A. Qadir)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 05:03:09 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

>In article <1992Nov18.034605.97803@slate.mines.colorado.edu>, imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (IBRAHIM  MUSTAFA ) writes:
|> 
|>    
|> 
|> 	One of Amercian Friends asked me a question that why bhutto was
|> hanged when he was an elected prime minister ? 
|> 
|> I replied him , ' Bhutto was an elected prime minister no way. 
|> Even in 1971 he was not elected prime minister. If he was
|> elected prime minister in 1971 the Bangladesh would not have 
|> been formed . He didnot enjoy the majority of the votes instead 
|> Mujeeb ur Rahman won more seats than him with a great majority 
|> only a few people know about this.But with the use of army and
|> bullshit journal like Yahya khan he unlawfully took the prime
|> ministership and the consequent loss of East Pakistan. 
|> 
|> What you guys think ? 
*I think you are absolutly correct. Bhutto said who ever want to go to 
*East Pakistan (at the question of moving the assembly there) should take
*a one way ticket. And the famous "Idhar hum udhar tum" formula. Now a fellow
*had knee jerk reation and started talking about Zia and Junnejo etc which was
*not the subject.

I remember Moulana Mufti Mahmood, went to E.Pakistan. He was trying at
his level best to keep unite bot East and West part of Pakistan. 
Even if you take % vote from West Pakistan only Bhutto took only 36%
of the vote, I think. 

Altaf Qadir
Massey Univ. New Zealand
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:34:44 GMT

In article <1ebrtkINNodb@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
>
>I don't even have a problem with their *believing* that, even though I
>think it is inconsistent with their own beliefs.  What I *do* have a
>problem with is their publicly associating with Muslims under the same
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>umbrella as would be the case if the newsgroup were approved under
>that name.  It would make things so much simpler to take on
>soc.religion.ahmadiya, just like the Bahais did with their group.
>
>-- Shakil

Boy! We are really going in circles here. Why should one try to hide 
their identity (irrespective of whether it is a true/false sense of 
identity) ?  Why should'nt they publicly declare it so if they really
believe they are muslims ? I fully agree that their beliefs may be 
inconsistent by your standards and perhaps even by my standards if I 
analyzed their beliefs (but so are many of the beliefs of muslims 
by the standards of people belonging to other religions). However, that 
still does not seem to be any valid reason to not permit them to call 
themselves whatever they want to unless it poses a danger to your set 
of beliefs in any way. Does it ?

As for the Bahais, they consider themselves an extension of not just 
Islam, but also that of Hinduism/Christianity etc. They couldn't 
possible prefix all the known religions to the ".Bahai" in s.r.bahai.
Hopefully, someone will soon be declared the official vote collector 
for this group and that will mark the end of this debate. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Subject: Re: Differences between Sunnies & Shias Muslims...
Keywords: Hydrocarbons...
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:31:48 GMT

In article <1eqp0tINNth@coral.bucknell.edu>, zabdi@bucknell.edu (Zakir Abdi) writes:
> 	Dear Netters,
> 
> 	Yesterday I was reading a magazine and found something interesting for
> 	you.  According to Alama Sajid Ali Naqvi following are the differences
> 	between two, and I am quoting here:
> 
> 
> 		"The differences are significant.  They say cut the thief's 
> 		hands from the wrists.  We say just cut the fingers from
> 		the palms."
> 
> 		"Alama Sajid Ali Naqvi"
> 		
> 	
> 	Any comments...
> 
>               OO shit here we go again. 
          
> 	Zakir Abdi
> 
             ___
 Lahori (LHL 111) Poond
From: silatman@hls.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Taqdeer will Change
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:46:32 GMT


    Pakistani public should wise up about Benazir Bhutto
by now. She only represents foreign interests in that
region, and of course, her own interests.
    Nawaz Sharif and other repeat-politicians represent
the hardcore Pakistani wadera/businessman/bureacracy
group. Then, there are sprinklings of Army people, those
at the top, and somewhat dubious and shifty.
    The Pakistani people, at the bottom, are not as
bad as the ruling lot. The ordinary Pakistani is a better
muslim, with more compassion, than those in some other
countries. Believe it or not, some of the most truthful
and honest muslims are to be found in Pakistani society,
who will sacrifice all for Islam. But, these are hidden
faces. 
    In time Taqdeer will change. The whole system in
this world will change, Rasul Allah [saw] has predicted that.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: khan@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (LAHORI POOND)
Subject: Lathi Charge
Keywords: Bhutto
Organization: Purdue University
Distribution: w
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:02:00 GMT


Just saw it on CNN the police Lathi charging the PPP supporters in Islamabad.
The Government was clearly bent upon on not letting the planned march take 
place. At one time Benazir also got into the thick of things as the police   
started to prevent her from crossing thier lines. I think the guy said that    
Bhutto along with other high opposition members was arrested. 
  Even though the planned march could not take place this has to be taken as a
victory for Benazir cause of all the negative media publicity given to the 
government. It seems it would have been better if they had just let the march
take place. Poor PPP supporters now not only have to worry  about the "Saykas"
that they got from the Lathi charge but also have to worry about getting a new
winshield for BB's Pajero, which was badly damaged.


 Later....

             ___
 Lahori (LHL 111) Poond
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: Paki BASTARDS
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:17:32 GMT

In article <SHAH.92Nov17095547@orange.tutee.tut.ac.jp> shah@orange.tutee.tut.ac.jp (Q. H. Shah) writes:
>
>Please ignore replying to this Willnecker. Just avoid him. He seems to be
>representative of American thought like Reagon used to use dirty language
>against Palestinians. Actually this is what the americans are. We do not
>have to worry about them. Most of them are Kafir and will go to hell. They
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>do not listen. So let them go to hell. We should not use a language like
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>americans. 
^^^^^^^^^^ I wonder whose language was worse.
>         Shah

Guess what Mr. Shah? You are living among kafirs and you're grossly 
outnumbered by them. Some of the kafirness of these viscious, conniving 
amrikees has already rubbed on to you. So you too will end up in hell 
like the rest of the kafirs. So it would be in your best intrest that 
you not live in this kafirland anymore. Don't say I didn't warn you
when you reach hell. 

BTW - Mr. Willnecker didn't post that message.

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|  LIFE's COMPLEX - IT HAS
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)  REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS.
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: x91ullah@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: BANAZIRE DESERVES!!!!!?
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:21:40 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Banazire deserves what happened today.

Asad.
Computer science department.
Western Michigan University.
From: imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Who hang Bhutto Zia or Tara Maseeh ?
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:45:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado School of Mines


 I have heared many people saying Zia hanged Bhutto. This is 
absolutely wrong.  Mr. Bhutto , the elected prime minister
after enjoying 90 % of the vote were hanged by a very ordinary
person whose income was even less than Rs 1000/-.
Please correct the records.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: qzuhair@milton.u.washington.edu (Newton)
Subject: Re: GOD SAVE PAKISTAN FROM BHUTTO FAMILY!!!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.162429.6507@gw.wmich.edu> x91abdullah1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
>Dear Brothers,
>
>      I felt very bad when I saw Report on CNN covering protest of Opposition 
>under the Leader ship of Benazir. Some American student were laughing on 
>the report shown by CNN.I think all blame goes to Buhtto famliy not PPP 
>becuse every person of Buhtto family ,not only crupt but they always actively
> involve in destroying pakistan and its integratiy.Her father divided Pakistan
> in two part,Her brother is well known terrorist always active in destroying
>Pakistan's Interest all over the world,and she siting in pakistan trying
>to complete her father's  and brother's plans (which I hope will end in
>distruction of Buhtto family not Pakistan Inshallah).
>       I hope God will save Pakistan from shadow of Buhtto famliy.      
>
>Thanks,

        I WISH THAT I COULD ASK HER THAT:
1) WHO HAS GIVEN HER THE RIGHT TO OVERTHROW A GOVERNMENT ON THE BASIS OF ITS
   ADMINISTRATIVE PERFORMANCE AS IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE?

2) WHAT POLITICAL PHILOSPHY, WHAT MOTIVES, WHAT REGULATIONS, WHAT POLICIES
   SHE PURSUES THAT SHE DEMAND THE SACRIFICES OF HER PARTY WORKERS, THE
   OVERTHROW OF THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT AND A REVOLUTION? JUST FOR "HER
   GOVERNMENT?

3) WHAT DID "SHE" ACHIEVE DURING HER RULING PERIOD FOR THE COUNTRY THAT ONE
   SHOULD FOLLOW HER? DID EMPLOYMENT LEVEL GO UP? DID LITERACY RATE GO UP?
   WAS THERE AN ECONOMIC BOOST? IF NAWAZ IS NOT BEING ABLE TO DO IT, WHAT SHE
   DID?

   I WISH SHE COULD ANSWER:


   I AM A WEALTHY WOMAN AND POLITIC IS MY HOBBY. FOR MOST OF MY LIFE I WAS IN
   US AND EUROPE. WHY SHOULD I CARE FOR THIS GODDAMN COUNTRY AND ITS INFERIOR
   PEOPLE WHOM I DETEST SO MUCH? ALL I WANT IS THE REVENGE. THAT BALD SLAPPED
   ME A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND I WANT TO THROW HIM OUT. OTHERWISE, I AM VERY
   COMFORTABLE IN MY LUXURIOUS BANGLOW IN CLIFTON AND WITH MY PAJEROS.


 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rajiv@me.uta.edu (Rajiv Chakravarti)
Subject: WHAT HAPPENNED TO the URDU POETRY GROUP?
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:17:19 GMT

Hello friends,

	I thought it had been a long time ago that all votes were
counted for the creation of rec.arts.poems.urdu.  Has the group been
formed yet?? Please inform me of the progress.
	My newsreader does not still recognize the name: rec.arts.poems.urdu.

Thanks a lot.
Regards.
--
=====================================================================
Rajiv Chakravarti
Dept. of Aerospace Engineering
University of Texas at Arlington

rajiv@utacfd.uta.edu                             rajiv@me.uta.edu
=====================================================================
From: nchaudhr@cs.ulowell.edu (Nadeem G Chaudhry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Was Bhutto an elected Prime Minister ?  No Way !!!!
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:29:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: ulowell.Bxyz18.1pL
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Originator: nchaudhr@cs.ulowell.edu


In article <1992Nov18.225452.28271@leland.Stanford.EDU>, arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
|> In article <Bxx9w4.2LF@ulowell.ulowell.edu> nchaudhr@cs.ulowell.edu (Nadeem G Chaudhry) writes:
|> >
|> >In article <1992Nov18.034605.97803@slate.mines.colorado.edu>, imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (IBRAHIM  MUSTAFA ) writes:
|> >|> 	One of Amercian Friends asked me a question that why bhutto was
|> >|> hanged when he was an elected prime minister ? 
|> >|> 
|> >|> I replied him , ' Bhutto was an elected prime minister no way. 
|> 
|> Bhutto didnt have a majority in East and West Pakistan combinewd .........
|> ...... but he did have a majority in '77 . 

Well Mr Rafay Khan it will be very educational if you read Kausar Naizi's book
"Our line cut gai" In that book he describes a scene where he and Bhutto 
were talking with a third fellow probably Pir Zahda. In response to a question
Pir Zadha said "Sir taqreeban 35 (not sure abuot exact  number but it was 
in 30s) seeton main jurlo chala ho ga." (Meaning: Sir tricks were used in about
35 seats) Now Mr Khan you live in this country were even the "speedy search"
of Clinton's file was considered a very bad thing don't you see any thing wrong
with "jurlo in 35 seats"? And Naizi was one of the close budies of Bhutto.

I have met a journalist whose nails were pulled by Bhutto regime because he
wrote an editorial against Bhutto. The guy suffers great pain every winter (may
be some doc can shed light on why he gets pain in winter even after so many
years)

> Blame west pakistan for the east pakistan debacle, why only bhutto and Yahya.
|> No one in West pakistan wanted the bengalis to rule, so they threw them out.
|> 
|> sahibzada rafay khan [] 
-- 
Nadeem G Chaudhry
nchaudhr@ulowell.ulowell.edu