From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Integrated Application Packages
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:42:42 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan12.044850.9994@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In retrospect, the cut and paste operation was a poor example. A better
>illustration would be basic interoperability like having a table in
>your word processor update in tandem with changes in your spread sheet.
>The onus for this should be on the software, not the end user. 

And it could easily be done that way.  The onus would be not on the
end user, but in the applications.  Doing your interapp stuff with
ARexx isn't at all difficult.  That's the whole point behind it's
existence.  By using ARexx, you allow the user freedom to change which
applications get the burden.

What you spoke of above sounds EXACTLY like the description of
HotLinks.  Ever see it?

>The point moreover, is that the clipboard is poorly supported. Regardless

By applications, yes, unfortunately.

>of how adequate it is to the task at hand, it has be made use of 
>bidirectionally. What happens if I want to paste a DR2D structured graphics
>object into my current document? None of the current word processing
>packages support this format. So, you either use AREXX to convert the
>graphic to a bitmap and then and paste it, or you go without. This is
>unsatisfactory. If a single vendor or number of vendors were to develop
>applications with a standardized interface and data format, this would
>not be a problem. 

Or if they would simply support more than the simple FTXT IFF chunk.
Unfortunately, developers seem to be extremely lazy when it comes to
supporting anything other than FTXT and ILBM type chunks.  Support for
DR2D chunks _SHOULD_ exist, I agree.

>No reason to be caustic. I know what the clipboard is and how it works.

Didn't mean to sound caustic.

>I also know that it is one of the weakest links in the OS. Whether or
>not it has functional potential is of little use unless this potential is
>realized.

Again, I disagree.  As of 2.0x and beyond, the clipboard is not only
gaining a lot of "ease of use"--it's now VERY easy to not only parse
IFF files, but to parse them straight out of the clipboard, no
device-access necessary.  Before 2.04, you had to use the device
directly.  Now, IFFParse.library handles it for you.  Applications
_ARE_ coming around, this can be seen through SoftLogik's increased
support, typically the SLOWEST people to ever do something.

Of course, they've still got a long ways to go.

>I agree entirely and I'm sure this is the point Marc is trying to make.
>The degree of integration is what is essential, not the means. If the
>clipboard can be used, terrific. If AREXX is at your disposal even better.
>But at the moment, this is seldom the case. And for entry-level users,
>it is neither convenient nor easy. 

Again, there is nothing that says that the end-user entry-level person
must WRITE these scripts--they should come pre-written, of course.
And there isn't a reason that these applications couldn't use ARexx to
talk to EACH OTHER, no scripts involved.  When another application
became the module, one would have to only write an arexx script to
interface it.

>Certainly. Unfortunately, this is too often used as a suggested strategy,
>not a standard policy. Consistency has to be system-wide, not just within
>individual applications.

Consistency across the OS exists.  If the applications conform, then
there aren't any headaches, correct?

Greg

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy