From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:26:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug26.174057.23999@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>In article <=7!n#8-.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>So you are saying that the reason for IQ tests is to single out -them-,
>>the <shudder> different ones?
>
>They are used for this purpose in many jurisdictions, such as the one I
>grew up in.  And yes, in the eyes of a lot of people my age, I became one
>of "them", by virtue of the fuss this caused.
>
>>
>>If you need a test to do this, then I suspect you will do poorly on any
>>IQ test. Some things are evident by simple observation.
>
>Yes, but organizations like school boards need some method of singling 
>people out, of categorizing them.  In the '60's, if you tested low, you 
>went to a special education program, and earned a reputation of being
>very different, in a bad way. If you tested out very high, they would
>usually single you out to the teachers, causing them to treat you noticably
>differently, but *not* remove you from your age group - this was deemed to
>be bad.  You then also become different, and kids love to pick on differences.
>> 
>>>I find your comments very sad and narrow-minded.  I have however seen it
>>>many times while growing up, usually just before someone took a swing at
>>>me for being different.
>>
>>This does not necessarily follow from the little information that you have
>>provided. Many kids deserve what they get, many do not. This gaining of
>>experience is part of growing up. 
>
>I gather then that you have never been beaten up for being an "egghead" or
>a "bookworm".  I have, but I guess I may have deserved it, huh?  Thanks.

Don't thank me, you just put yourself in that category. I am tall enough
and aggressive enough that I have not had these problems. In fact, after
the attempt to 'initiate' me in high school with lipstick, they left me
alone. Somehow they seemed embarrassed wearing all that lipstick. And it
was a large group, they had me completely off the ground.

>Whatever else I learned as a kid, it is that someone who is lighter and
>shorter has no place being obnoxious, so I was very quiet and inoffensive.
>But who knows, maybe they just *told* me they were beating me up for being
>different.

Bruce Lee was a bit on the short side, but that did not seem to paint a
target on his back.
 
>As to the little information, I assume that people do not want a life history
>to justify one statement.

[...]

>>I assume that the "no place" is a type, and that you meant "a place".
>>And you assume that all intelligent people have difficulty "adjusting to
>>life", and that this is MENSA's purpose. I really do not thing that either
>>your assumption or conclusion are correct.
>
>You assume that *none* do, as much as I assume that all do.  In reality, 
>*some* people have trouble adjusting, and could use a group to find others
>in the same situation.  I propose that this is one function of MENSA, and 
>that it is useful.  

OK, I will accept that this is -one- function MENSA fulfills, but not it's sole
function. BTW, "type" above was a typo, it should have been "typo". 

>                      I do *not* subscribe to either of the assumptions or
>conclusions you misrepresent above.  

SInce I clearly stated my opinion as such, you are claiming that I am
misrepresenting my own opinion. Such silliness deserves a comment such
as -get a life-, or -get real-. You choose whichever you prefer, or would
prefentially flame. :^)

>                                   And yes, I took your postion to mean
>that you have no sympathy for people who are the victims of actions based
>on what other people believe them to be.  

I said "some kids" not "some geniuses". And that was exactly what I meant.
But I imagine you will stick to your assumption as long as it gives you
something to argue against. I'd love to be wrong on this.

>                                              Look at the reaction to this
>thread - there are definite stereotypes about "high-IQ" people.
>
>So...Perhaps MENSA is not just an organization of self-centered, arrogant
>dweebs.  Perhaps *some* of the people involved find it useful to meet others
>like themselves.  Is that so terrible?

It's incredible that this is a response to my post. You got so much more out
of it that I never put in. And oddly, none of your reaction is to anything
close to my views. Is there any link between the ability to communicate
and intelligence (as measured by the IQ tests)? You tell me.

>> 
>>>		David Pipes
>>>who does not belong to Mensa
>>>robear@digex.com
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>payner@netcom.com
>
>		David Pipes
>I *hate* those tests...

Rich

payner@netcom.com  (fighting massive line noise)