HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose)
Subject: Re: Mensch
Organization: The Evil Fascist IRC Admins From Hell, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:55:26 GMT

David> == David Gordon Campbell <davidcam@wam.umd.edu> 

 David> HERE'S WHAT I RECEIVED 
 David> 	From: henry@ads.com (Henry Mensch)
 David> 	Subject: Re: SELLING 1-WAY TICKET LA=>WASH,DC.
	
>>this isn't a forsale group; please keep this crap out of
>>rec.travel.air

 David> What a nitwit, Mr. Mensch is!  I have used this newsgroup many
 David> times to sell tickets and to buy them.  Many friends of mine do,
 David> also.  Why do people like SUPERmensch take such pleasure in
 David> being nasty?

 David> My little 3-line posting wasn't bothering anyone.  The only
 David> reason to have a group like this, is so that we all can fly a
 David> little cheaper.  The aircarriers really screw you when you're
 David> trying to fly somewhere on short notice.

The CFV for a new newsgroup "rec.travel.marketplace" (forsale, wanted,
discount coupons, etc.)  has been sent to the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups and should be appearing soon. 

rec.travel.air was created for airliner (and associated) travel
postings. Whether "forsale/wanted" postings are a part of this is
arguable.

--Helen

--
Helen Trillian Rose             	<hrose@eff.org, hrose@kei.com>
Electronic Frontier Foundation   	email eff@eff.org for EFF Info
Kapor Enterprises, Inc.                 Flames to: 
Systems and Networks Administration	women-not-to-be-messed-with@eff.org
From: sajja@central.cis.upenn.edu (Rajeev Sajja)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: BA, frequent flier mileage for a trip to far east -- need info.
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:45:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

hi. I am planning to take a flight on british airways in dec. to india
from philadelphia. The question i have is that can i get frequent flier
miles on USAir for the entire trip. phila-london-bombay-london-phila.

i have heard rumors that only the phila-london leg can get miles..
Does anyone have any first hand information on this..

thanks.

-Rajeev
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: rkimm@ameris.ameritech.com (Robert L. Kimmel)
Subject: Re: BAGGAGE AT CAROUSEL
Organization: Ameritech, Hoffman Estates, IL
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:12:12 GMT

smsriv@melkor.lerc.nasa.gov (Rakesh Srivastava) writes:

>There are security people
>at these airports who do not let you walk out of the carousel area unless
>they cross check the stub on your baggae and the stub on the ticket to ensure 
>that you are taking the baggage you checked in.

I think it would be easy to beat in some cases.  If a bag is small enough to
be carry-on, what is to stop me from just ripping the tags of someone else's
bag, and saying "this was my carry-on bag"?  On those occassions when I have
seen security people checking tags, they just watch the exit; they don't
actually watch people take bags from the carousel.

BK
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Aircraft Age
Date: 4 Oct 92 20:59:25 GMT
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <1992Oct4.092139.29854@ohare.Chicago.COM> kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) writes:
>In article <HROSE.92Sep28162927@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
>>United is about "average" -- adding new 737s and 747s (plus 767s) while
>>phasing out their older stuff (no more United DC-8s :)
>
>Also boatloads of 757s (~60 delivered in two years, with 30 on order
>and 60 more on option), the first batch of which replaced those
>DC-8s -- is that a smile at them being gone?!  That hurts -- I miss
>them as I flew them a lot and they were problem the most comfortable
>single-aisle aircraft in United's fleet.

Maybe at one time they were so comfortable, but not lately.  The thing
that annoyed me the most when I flew in a UA DC-8 a couple of years
ago was that half the "window" seats did not have a window -- they
had a blank wall.  The DC-8's windows are spaced further apart than
on other, more modern, airliners.  I guess at one time the seats
were spaced equivalently, which means they were probably very comfortable.
But as someone who had to take a cross-country flight sitting next to
a wall, rather than the window I had expected, I was VERY disappointed.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
From: tt26+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tamminh Tran)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Mensch
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:14:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Right on, David.  People do get out of their way to be nasty, don't they?
From: sajja@central.cis.upenn.edu (Rajeev Sajja)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Frequent flier miles question.. RT from USA -India
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:13:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

i am looking for some experience from people who have travelled to 
India and got frequent flier miles for the complete distance on any
US carrier frequent flier programs (excluding delta) preferrably
American.

please let me know your experiences...

-Rajeev
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Subject: Re: Q: standby tickets
Reply-To: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - Chicago Div.
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:19:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.164822.19799@news.nd.edu> tchen@ndcvx.cc.nd.edu (T. chen) writes:
>
>I have seen some postings about standby tickets.
>But I don't really know how to get them and use
>them successfully.  Can anyone who has taken standby
>flights several times give me some detailed
>information and procedure about that? thanks.

Within the US there is basically no  such animal any  more.  If you've
got a ticket  for the  same day   you  can  usually  go standby  for a
different flight to the same city on the same day.  If you change your
date of travel the airline will more than likely charge you.
								reb


From: sievertl@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lisa Sieverts)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:45:23 GMT
Subject: Morris Air Service??  OAK-TAC
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air

Has anyone used Morris Air Service?  They seem to be based on 
Salt Lake City, and provide quite inexpensive service from the
Bay Area to the Pacific NorthWest.  They also seem to be some
kind of a charter service, purchasing seats on different airlines.

All info would be appreciated.  Thanx.
From: hafer@apple.com (Rob Hafer)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Luggage (was: AIRLINE SCAM)
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:13:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel.air
Organization: Apple Computer

> >(comments on flying with lots of luggage).

Another tip: Many airports in the U.S. still offer 'curb side check-in' for
domestic travellers.

When returning from a trade show, I drove up to the terminal and dropped
off 750lbs of boxes for four passengers...needless to say we tipped heavily
but did not have to pay any excess baggage charges.  On several other
occasions I've checked well above my allotment of luggage at the curb
(where they often don't have scales and tipping is encouraged).
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: AS.RFS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Russell Sole)
Subject: Re: 'Window' seats (was Re: Aircraft Age)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:20:32 GMT

In article <92279.124701AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET>,
Aron Eisenpress <AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>In article <138044@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) says:
>>
>>   {...}   The thing
>>that annoyed me the most when I flew in a UA DC-8 a couple of years
>>ago was that half the "window" seats did not have a window -- they
>>had a blank wall.    {...}
>>But as someone who had to take a cross-country flight sitting next to
>>a wall, rather than the window I had expected, I was VERY disappointed.
>
>United's 767's which are still in the 2-class configuration do *not* have a
>window in row 8.  (The 3-class ones, where row 8 is in business class, do).
>-------
>
> -- Aron Eisenpress, City U of NY
>    (AFECU@CUNYVM.BITNET, or AFECU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU on the Internet)

On a similar note, I've noticed that on some new 737's that in row 6
there is not a window either.  It seems to be in the manufacturing
of this version, since I've noticed it on United, Continental,
Southwest, and America West.  Does anyone know why Boeing
manufactured these planes this way???

Russ.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Subject: airline ticket offers (was Re: Mensch)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:12:46 GMT

As annoying as I find these ticket offers (and as puzzling as I find all these
unused one-way tickets), it seems to me that the main reason this group was
formed in the first place was to get all these offers out of rec.travel.
It seems to me that they're an appropriate use of the group.

Wayne

-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg)
Subject: Re: Morris Air Service??  OAK-TAC
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:59:29 GMT

In article <66070005@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> sievertl@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lisa Sieverts) writes:
>Has anyone used Morris Air Service?  They seem to be based on 
>Salt Lake City, and provide quite inexpensive service from the
>Bay Area to the Pacific NorthWest.  They also seem to be some
>kind of a charter service, purchasing seats on different airlines.
>
>All info would be appreciated.  Thanx.

I posted some information back at the end of August, and just got back
from a trip to San Jose on Morris.  Here's an updated version of my
August posting:

Morris Air started 9 years ago with 1 flight: Salt Lake to Honolulu.
Then they added Orange County, Ontario, San Diego, Oakland, San Jose,
Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Laughlin NV (yes, to go gambling).  They
used to be a hub and spoke system with the hub being SLC.  Now they
have more direct flights between cities, and more cities including
Portland, Anchorage and Spokane.  They dropped Ontario a little while
ago.

They also do flights from SLC to Orlando, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta,
Cancun, and Cabo San Lucas.

Morris is actually just a ticketing / charter company which contracts
for flights with both Sierra Pacific and Ryan International.  Their
ticket prices in the Seattle - SF Bay Area market are $100 below
American or Alaska.  Ryan flies 737-300's, Sierra Pacific flies older
737's, either the -100 or the -200.

Morris, much like Southwest, offers no advance seat assignments or
meal service, although on the San Jose to Seattle leg they brought
these HUGE muffins by along with drinks.  The plane was quite full,
with all the window and aisle seats occupied and about 1/3 of the
center seats occupied.

In both Seattle and San Jose they have contracted with Continental for
support services.  The Morris ticket counter is part of Continental's
counter space with a Morris sign behind it.  In Seattle, we could have
used Continental's curb-side check in, but since the Morris ticket
counter was only 20 steps through the door, and we had to go to the
counter anyway for seat assignment, we just dragged the bags in.  When
I flew Morris in 1990 I seem to remember long check-in lines, but this
time we walked right up to the counter.

BTW: They also have some great ski packages.  I took 1 day off work
(Friday), left San Jose Thursday night about 7:00pm, skied Alta,
Snowbird, and Solitude in three consecutive days, and got home Sunday
night about 9:00pm.  Total: $358 for everything except food.  Yep,
that's airfare, hotels, shuttle busses, and lift tickets.  Had a great
time.  This year's prices for SF Bay Area or Seattle to Salt Lake ski
packages: 2 days = $298, 3 days = $368 (up $10).

[ Obligatory Note: No connection with Morris Air except that I'm just
  a happy customer. ]

Erik
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 23:58:32 CET
From: C R Francis <RFRANCIS@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Govenment subsidy: Was Re: Aircraft Age
 <HROSE.92Sep28162927@rocza.eff.org> <1a9tktINNfli@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>

In article <1a9tktINNfli@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic)
says:
>
>But the U.S. military buys a product, they don't give charity contributions
>to MD or Boeing, etc the way the europeans support Airbus. Also, a little

Do I detect a litle xenophobia here ?  The clear implication in this thread
is that European products (planes in this case) are intrinsically bad, and
the only reason a US airline would buy them is if European governments pay
them to.

This betrays a somewhat simplistic view of the way the world works.  It is
of course true that Airbus offers attractive financing packages on its
aircraft.  It's also true that Airbus does not have any miliatary
forerunners or derivatives of any of its aircraft (unlike Boeing or MD)
--- and it is naive to believe that government work, particularly in the
defence field, is equivalent to commercial competition.

And there are other factors than subsidy.  Who remembers the saga of the
Microwave Landing System (MLS) which was played out in the seventies. There
were two competing solutions for the (then) new worldwide standard, one
from a UK compasny, one from the US.  The British system had been built and
was demonstrated at one difficult airport after another, around the world.
It has since been installed at British miliatary airfields.  The US system
existed as a simulation.  The selection was made by international
voting, with much lobbying and other interesting tactics.

Guess who won, and ask yourself why MLS is still not a worldwide
standard (we use ILS today) when we had a working system 15 years ago.

Government assitance exists, explicit and hidden. There are also
other ways of promoting national hi-tech industries. And please don't
forget ---- Europeans products do also have technical merits.



-------------------------------------        Richard Francis
Internet: rfrancis@estec.estec.esa.nl        European Space Research and
Bitnet  : rfrancis@estec.bitnet                Technology Centre (ESTEC)
SPAN    : ESTERS::FRANCIS
smail   : C R Francis, OEE/OWP, ESTEC, Keplerlaan 1, 2200AG NOORDWIJK NL
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: mdivya@world.std.com (Marigowda Divya)
Subject: lowest airfare BOS-SanFrancisco
Summary: Lowest airfare for BOS-SanFrancisco
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 14:22:23 GMT

I am looking for the lowest airfare between BOSTON and SANFRANCISCO
(or SAN JOSE/SACRAMENTO/OAKLAND), for travel around mid October.
(my preferred airline is Northwest; mainly because of frequent
flier mileage benefits).

If you are aware of any special fares or discounts or coupons,
could you please let me know.  Lowest fare that I have come across
so far is a 14-day advance $450.00 roundtrip fare.

Thanks in advance.

divya
(mdivya@world.std.com)
From: tt26+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tamminh Tran)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Cleveland-Pittsburgh ride
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:59:48 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Ride offer in exchange for share in gas and rental expense:
    Cleveland-Pittsburgh Friday afternoon 10/9/92
    Pittsburgh-Cleveland Sunday morning 10/11/92

Call Tami (412)268-3681 or (412)681-0959.
From: snayar@next3.cs.umr.edu (Sanjay Nayar)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Bangkok
Keywords: Airport
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:28:42 GMT
Reply-To: snayar@cs.umr.edu
Organization: University of Missouri-Rolla, Missouri's Technological University

Hi!

	I have a couple of questions for anyone who is familiar with Bangkok.
I have a 12 hour stay there on my way from the US to India.

	(1) Do I need to get a visa if I want to get out of the airport?
	(2) Are there any reasonable Hotels/Motels close to the airport, 
	    and how to get there?
	(3) Is it possible to spend the night at the airport?

I have an Indian passport.  BTW, I will be using Thai airlines.

Thanks in advance,

Sanjay Nayar
snayar@cs.umr.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: reddyv@infonode.ingr.com (Venu Reddy)
Subject: Re: Charge Card for ticket purchase (Q)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:55:30 GMT

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

>Anand.Rao@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Anand Rao) wrote: 

>-> What about the travel insurance provided by the credit card companies?

>credit card companies don't provide "travel insurance," generally;

	My Discover card and NWA Visa card from Bank One, both PROVIDE
me travel insurance worth more than 300,000 for free.

>--
># henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: davida@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (David Andersen)
Subject: Flat Tire rule?
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:34:15 GMT


We've all heard about (and used) the Flat Tire rule which says that
if you're late for a flight, the airline will typically put you
on the next available flight (standby, of course) to your destination.

The question is:
  -- Has anyone ever been *charged* for this?

I missed my flight last month, and AA insisted that they charge me $25
because _they_ wanted to change my routing.  I had no problem
with the change in routing (it meant jet service instead of
puddle-jumper), but I've never heard of a charge!  I told him
to charge it and I'd appeal to AA.....any thoughts?



David
From: dickerso@fester.dell.com (Russell Dickerson - X2787)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Children's Airline Fares
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:05:59 GMT
Reply-To: dickerso@cpat.stortek.com
Organization: IO SpecialistsConsulting

Continental charged me a FULL adult fare on a ticket from HOU->DEN->HOU
for a child who was 2 1/2 years old.  Every time I asked them they told
me it was a full adult fare for children over 2.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Dickerson	Unix/X Consultant	IOSpecialists
(303) 673-5409 ---REPLY TO>>> dickerso@cpat.stortek.com <<<!!!!--------
For every vision, there is an equal and opposite Congressional revision.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Aircraft Age
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Oct4.092139.29854@ohare.Chicago.COM>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:28:23 GMT

Karl> == Karl Swartz <kls@ohare.Chicago.COM> 

 Karl>     727-51	  3 @ 27.5

Hrm, I'm pretty sure they've gotten the last 727-100s into retirement.
(I wound up flying on one before they did, though, on a DTW-CLE hop.)

You're right, though, the average by airframe is often WAY off the
average by seat, due to the acquisition cycles of the different
airlines.  Maybe we need to see an 'average age by seat' instead of the
(highly misleading) average by airframe...
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Govenment subsidy: Was Re: Aircraft Age
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<3106@voodoo.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 03:56:33 GMT

DB>   == brit@wagner.Physics.McGill.CA (Dave Britton) writes:
Mike> == Mike York <zombie@voodoo.boeing.com> 

 DB> All the American aircraft companies owe their existence due to
 DB> govenment subsidies in the form of military contracts.  I much
 DB> prefer the european subsidy since that didn't result in weapons of
 DB> destruction.

 Mike> Hmmmm.  Does this mean that the companies that make up the Airbus
 Mike> consortium have never had any defense related contracts?

Based on the BAe and Aerospatiale ads for missiles and other ordnance,
as well as the EFA, I'd have to say "highly unlikely".

(I might also note that the US aerospace companies that depended too
heavily on defense contracts are now hurting pretty badly...)
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ccd@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Carol C Denehy)
Subject: Re: BAGGAGE AT CAROUSEL
Organization: None, and I like it like that
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 06:18:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.070528.11863@schbbs.mot.com> RMNL69@paccvm.corp.mot.com (Les Aquino) writes:
>This might be an FAQ.
>Anyway, what prevents somebody (other passengers, airport personnel)
>from taking your baggage at the airport's baggage claim carousel ?
>Seems to me that anybody can get anything at that point.

Absolutely nothing in most airports, and twice I have had another
passesnger walk off with my luggage. Both times it was returned later,
altho one time it took several days (they didn't notice as soon as they
got home??). Once was even after an international flight, and customs 
does not usually check to see whose bags you have if you go thru
the "nothing to declare" side. When the only bag left looked an
awful lot like mine but wasn't mine, I guessed what had happened.
This was in Sydney, and indeed the other people returned it quickly.
I wish all airports would require verification with baggage check
stubs. There are a lot of similar suitcases out there, especially
some of the more popular lines.

Carol Denehy
From: slambert@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Roundtrip OAK<-->LAX tix weekend of Oct 24th
Date: 29 Sep 1992 21:56:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu



**********************************************************
* Posting for a friend -- Please do not reply by e-mail  *
**********************************************************

Roundtrip plane ticket between OAK <--> LAX available,

Depart OAK 4:00 pm Friday October 23rd United flight #506
Depart LAX 5:55 pm Sunday October 25th United flight #1270

Male name, asking $78 or best offer

Call John at (510) 524-9669 (evening/answering machine)
             (510) 642-5554 (daytime)


Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: davidcam@wam.umd.edu (David Gordon Campbell)
Subject: SELLING 1-way ticket LA=>WASH, DC for male
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:31:18 GMT

I have a 1-way ticket for a male traveling from LAX to Washington (BWI)
on Oct. 9th.  Price today is $50 => $0 as the day
approaches.  E-mail davidcam@wam.umd.edu or call David 818/796-8803.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air