From: ae766@yfn.ysu.edu (David Sanders)
Subject: German heraldry;  Eulogy for Axel Bandit; SCA style
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:33:20 GMT


Greetings to all, from Vajk!

Gwenllian asks:

   > Ok, do you have a single, widely available, English-
   > language source for these German words?

Well, how much money do you want to spend?  I have
recently come accross the following:

   40  German & French for Heral    Neubecker, Ottfried

The entry is from a screen-print of a list of 82 items
obtained by doing a subject search for books currently
available from publishers.  The listed cost is 59.95, but
the price may have gone up, even though this was just last
week.  I will endeavour to get the full citation, as I am
going to order this book for myself.
==========================================================

Alison MacDermot writes:

   > I have actually gotten to the point where I'd
   > advocate dropping conflict checking against "all"
   > real-world armory, including "Gules, three lions
   > passant in pale Or", and throwing all of our released
   > energy into research and education.

Hear, hear!  Believe it or not, the heraldic bibliography
project is not dead, just not much noticed.  Such a 
bibliography will, in a few years from now, provide any
herald with the necessary tools to document anything,
or at least just about anything, which is documentable.
   You are welcome to contribute.
==========================================================

William writes:

   > Whew!  Something must have happened here.  Are we
   > prepared to actually consider the possibility that the
   > SCA as such might need an upgrade?  Or am I walking
   > with my head in a cloud of glogg foam?  :-)

Well, I, for one, will say it:  At least some of us are
prepared to actually consider the possibility that the
SCA as such might need an upgrade.

And, while not exactly an old-timer at 16+ years, I'm also
not a newbie (less than 5 years or so) who just wants to
say out with the old and in with the new!  (Note:  I do
not mean to imply that ALL newbies are like that, only 
that there are some very vocal ones.)
==========================================================

Lord Ian of Gloucester writes:

   > The SCA used to recruit heavily, was tolerant of
   > newcomers, and bent over backwards to help new members.
   > I have not seen much of this recently.

Question:  Why is it that the SCA "recruits"?  If we are
really a totally volunteer group, what are we "recruiting"
for.  I agree with all the statements quoted here, but
I am also curious as to why we recruit at all.  I heard 
about it from friends, and that might be a good way.  If
we simply bring in people who are already "hanging out"
with SCA type people, sounds like the person is already
ready for the SCA.

Lord Ian also writes:

   > I say Romance before Research and style over 
   > substance, because the SCA cannot compete in either
   > research or substance.

Speak for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!
I am one who believes that the SCA  "CAN"  if it decides
that it wants to, compete, and excel, in both research
and substance.  The only question is:  Do we want to?

==========================================================

Another question:

   WHY IS THERE AN SCA STYLE of anything?

OK, I can see fighting, since we can't actually do real
fighting with real armor and real weapons.  But why should
the SCA derive its own style of heraldry, garb, music,
dance, painting, armor (we can use real armor, even if
not real weapons), etc.

Put another way, the question may clarify the current
debate over "fantasy" and "authenticity" that has been
raging:   Should the SCA try to re-create the Middle Ages,
or should the SCA provide the framework for the
individuals to re-create it?

In the second case, geographic regions could form their
own "kingdoms", "principalities", "households", "khanates",
etc., with the SCA as an umbrella organization to
facilitate communication between the groups.  More than
one group could exist in the same geographic area.  Still,
the groups could "play" together.

In the first case, the Society must pick and choose from
the vast number of possibilites, and as such it must
exclude much which is period, and perhaps also include
stuff which is not, thus deriving its own "style".

Thoughts?

==========================================================

Vajk
ae766@ysub.yfn.edu