HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hasn@midway.uchicago.edu
Subject: Jewish Missions?? was :Re: Intolerance (was SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:24:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.055335.403@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec16.223256.23296@midway.uchicago.edu> hasn@midway.uchicago.edu  writes:
> >
> >I couldn't agree with you more.  Intolerance, within all of our cultures
> >is definitely a negative.  I am muslim by birth but not by practice.  Yet
> >I feel that I am still a "real" muslim regardless of my degree of following.
> >The final result of "judging and condemning" is indeed a depressing prospect.
> >I have been approached by both Christian and Jewish missions on the street
> 
> There is no such a thing as Jews trying to get people to convert to our
> religion!
> Thanks,
> Dima

The incidents I spoke of occured a while ago so I honestly am at some loss here.
But regardless of whether they were JforJ's or "independent" missions, that is 
not the point I was trying to make (so lets assume that I was incorrect in my
assumption....and keep this thread alive).  The issue was/is that who is the "real" jew or
muslim or hindu or christian and so on?  Its one thing to get annoyed (and I know
how annoying missions are, believe me) at missions, but it is a totally different 
thing to call them "phoney."  Because they're not a conspiracy.  Islam has many 
sects that constantly tell the other what is wrong with their side:  it is annoying but
does not make the other side "not-real" muslims.  The same applies to other religions.
If one chooses to detract, the condemnation received from the so-called "real" side
is equivalent to that received "by" the "real" side.  All of our cultures and religions
were never static at any point in history and continue to change/evolve/mature.  And 
that is the cause of splits and sects.  Having grown up with parents from two 
separate sects, and therefore having attended separate mosques, the question of "real"
was fluid from childhood.  But I'll end now (I love metaphysical issues and could
go on forever!).  I any case how do people feel about this issue?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Shem and Abraham (Was Re: Conversion Question)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:30:40 GMT

In <1992Dec10.161838.1@vmsa.technion.ac.il> chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il writes:

>2. The Maharsha's argument about primogeniture runs backwards!
>A more careful reading of his stilted prose than I gave it before 
>can be very roughly translated as follows: "To withdraw the 
>priesthood from Shem means to wthhold it from the sons that are 
>yet to be born to him. [Considering Shem's age when he met Abraham, 
>this is pretty impressive  _A.H.:-)], since the sons that had already
>been born did not become priests. This is similar to what was said 
>about Phinehas, who did not become priest before the affair of Zimri
>because he was born before Eleazar became priest."

Now I get it.  I speculate that to make this work, one has to assume
that ((Shem was not the firstborn) OR (Shem was, but being the
firstborn of Noah made him the priest for Noah's family, not the high
priest for the whole world, he later received a special high
priesthood)) AND (Shem became high priest after Arpachshad's birth,
the course of study must take more than two years, otherwise Avraham
would have been in line to inherit it anyway).

About whether Shem was the firstborn or not, it's not clear, the names
of Noah's sons are listed in differing orders.

Perhaps another answer might be (I'd have to check the ages of
everyone in Abraham's lineage, or look at the book with all the charts
(but it's still in New York), that some intermediate ancestor was
still alive and would have inherited the job, so in order to get the
job to the correct recipient, it was handed directly to him.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Question on "Jewish mother = jewish children"
Date: 20 Dec 92 09:07:20 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Dec17.192641.12992@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

   According to the g'mara, the answer is unknown. In (chulin?) they
   discuss the case of two animals that are placed so that their wombs
   are touching, and the one give birth directly into the uterus of the
   second, the young subsequently emerging to daylight from the second.
   This is close enough to surrogate motherhood as to make no diffrence.
   The g'mara asks "which animal is the mother?" and the answer is "teko,"
   which means that no answer is known (and/or that it will be resolved
   by Eliyahu ha tishbi etc.)

But we have to ask, in this case the fetus doesn't have anything
happen to it in the second womb, but in the case of embreyo
implantation it undergoes most of its developement there?  So is there
a different ruling?  Another teku, I'd suppose.  If Eliyahu thinks
he'll be able to just blow that shofar and vanish for another few
thousand years (cameos aside), he's got another thing coming to him.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:28:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.020441.15744@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>                                    Like parting the Reed Sea, turning
>Egypt's water into blood, slaying all of Egypt's first born, guiding
>the Jews through the desert for 40 years with a pillar of fire by
>night and a pillar of smoke by day, bringing manna from heaven to feed
>the nation while they wandered in the desert for 40 years, bringing
>water from any number of large desert rocks, almost completely
>revealing himself on Mt. Sinai as the Torah was given...
   You forgot the chorus:
  I want to hear everyone now...
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Missionary-inundating (Re: Here we go again)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:12:39 +0100
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"

Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

> In article <1992Dec14.195903.8015@nynexst.com>, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven
> Schwartz) says:
> >
> >A personal note has a much greater impact than a group posting.
> >472 personal notes from 472 people in one's e-mail box have
> >an even greater impact.
> (in making missionaries of various types leave SCJ, that is.)
> 
> Well Steven, you and I make 2. All we need is another 470 or so, and we
> can begin. We won't need anything more offensive than "Please DO leave
> SCJ." if we have enough people sending the notes. Anyone else game? It
> ought to be fun! :-) :-)


  Count with also with me. Now we need only 469 (or so?). 

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Shabbat question
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:30:48 GMT

In article <101968@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.220055.2804@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah (Joel Goldberg) writes:
   I had written before that the temptation to repair a broken down
   bicycle, the reason usually given for forbidding them even within
   an eruv on shabbat, applies equally well to baby carriages and
   wheelchairs. Matthew (I gather, the attribution line has been cut)
   responded:
>>>But the usual riders are often not in a position to carry it or to
>>>make the repairs.
   Ie. saying that my question is irrelevant: Since the ability to make
   the repairs is absent, the issue of temptation is moot.
   I suggested that
>>  They are also usually accompanied by people who are. definitely for
>>infants, depending on the disability, for wheelchair bound people too.
>And such people can usually push the broken item along, instead of
>making repairs--while the item is still being used as a bed/seat.
   I won't, for the purposes of this discussion, dispute this, but
there will still be a temptation on the part of the
accompanying individual to make a repair, rather than struggle with
damaged equipment--the same temptation that exists with bicycles.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A really important Hanuka question
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:01:47 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <102326@netnews.upenn.edu> chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin) writes:

>For years now we've suffered with those silly multi-colored candles
>from Israel that last about 7 seconds.  And every year I remember
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Hanuka lights are supossed to light, at the evening ,  for at least
1/2 an hour.

So don't buy  "Chanuka candls " ( in case they cant hold burning for
1/2 an hour ) but buy regular long enough candles.
Be a ware to that on Shabat eve when you light the candles befor
sunset and the candles are suppos to stand for at least 1 hour .

You don't have to be a white in order to say "WHITE candles ARE NICE"
use those regular white nice candels you can find at the nearby store,
and remember those jews who did not give up their faith and fought for
it.

   Shalom   gideon  ehrlich    ERETS YISRAEL
From: todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:35:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec15.193515.11066
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

How about "Happy Solstice". It's  non-religious merely making note of
an astronomical event.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Ellner  todd@reed.edu 
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator Dr. Haldane?"
JBS Haldane:"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)
Subject: If I were Prime Minister
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:27:55 GMT

Re: the latest murder of an Israeli.  After hearing about the latest
kidnapping and murder of the Border Policeman, if I were Prime Minister for
the day, I would authorize the immediated PUBLIC HANGING OF THE SHIEK. Not
withstanding the fact that violence begets more violence, it seems as if
the Israelis are not supposed to "degrade" themselves into brutal violent
acts.  I say, FORGET THAT!!  I think the time has come that even while
PEACE TALKS go on, the violence upon Israel increases, and it is now time
to match this violence.  If the kidnappers wanted the Shiek back, give him
back, but in the same condition in which the policeman was found; in fact,
give them back a dozen in that condition.  The Israeli's need to live in
safe, secure land--from the Mediterranean to the Jordan.  It is theirs.
(now let the flames begin)
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

   *    ***    **      *
   *   *   *     *     *
   *   *   *     *     *   
   *    ***         ***
   *   nison reuven b'R Shami             
   *   
   *   *  *   ***   ***   **  **
   *   ** *  *   *  *  *  * ** *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *    *
   *   *  *   ***   *  *  *    *
       norm  "EVERYWHERE I GO, I GO TO ISRAEL!"
+---------------------------------------------------------+
From: trb@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Date: 18 Dec 1992 22:59:12 GMT
Organization: Beth trb - Baruchline, MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

I am not going to debate the merits of the deportations.  I do want to
comment on the biased media coverage though.  I have seen several
reports that say that the Israelis deported 400 Palestinians, in
response to the murders of several Jewish officers by Islamic
terrorists.

This is only a partial story.  A less biased report would mention that
Hamas claimed responsibility for the murders.  That the people deported
were members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad.  That the deportations are
temporary, not to last for more than two years, and that the deportees
have to right to appeal within 60 days (my personal bias: a right which
I regret is no longer available to the murdered victims of Hamas).

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Brookline, MA  USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Contacting sysadmins (was Re: scj soap-opera(was Re: An open...))
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:34:37 GMT

In <1992Dec18.015317.13272@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto
Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>In article <dfs.724640529@kehleyr> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F.
Skoll) writes:

>>I'd
>>urge other readers of scj who are tired of Andy's behaviour to let
>>Mr. Hooper at Queens University know.

>I urge the same people not to do that.
>We do not need to call the authorities. We do not need to go around
>reporting people.

I agree with Mr. Pinkas 100 percent.  But I'd just like to point out
that "Andy" escalated first by e-mailing my sysadmin complaints about
me.  Once Andy has escalated to that level, I have no qualms about
following suit.

Luckily for me, and unluckily for Andy, the Department of Electronics
is a small department, and I am on very good terms with the sysadmin
here, who knows my personality and realizes that I mean no harm
to Andy.

>I feel that all of this Andy vs. Skoll et. al. is like a soap-opera,
>and that nobody is getting anything good from it.
>HOWEVER, do not report anybody. Reporting people is not a noble action.

Again, I agree.  But once Andy escalates, I cannot turn the other cheek.

--
David F. Skoll
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:30:50 GMT

dm = makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)

dm: However what he is quoted in Chadashot L.A. is about contemplating
dm: premeditated murder.  Now clearly one who contemplates murder does not
dm: not become a murderer unless action replaces thought.  But to ask
dm: "what's so bad about contemplating murder?"?

wb: Again, given the context, what is so bad, other than your using
wb: the same dishonest tactic?

I'm afraid that I must not understand what you actually mean, as I
can't figure out how I have misrepresented you, or what relevant part
of the context I deleted.  Perhaps you might try to answer the
following questions: "To what does the pronoun 'that' in your question
(quoted below, as #1) refer?"  I sincerely understood it to refer to Binyamin
Kahane's statement #2.

1: What is so bad about that, considering the situation with respect
1: to his father and his emotions?

2: "As far as I'm concerned, kill any Arab who stands in our way, in the
2: most humane manner possible, causing the least suffering."

Now I also *understand* why he feels this way, there are many wrongs
that I *understand*.  I would not, however ask, "what's so bad about
that?" unless I wanted to suggest that 'that' is not, in fact, a
wrong, or at least not seriously so.

I do realize that you object to actually *comitting* premeditated
murder.  But is that not what B. Kahane is proposing?  While it
may not be a prosecutable offense, isn't it wrong to suggest to
people that they commit crimes?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:58:29 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Andy the Canadian twat
 <1992Dec19.194406.1@vxdesy.desy.de> <BzIx1H.CJH@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>

In article <BzIx1H.CJH@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>, pasward@maytag.uwaterloo.ca
(Paul A.S. Ward) says:
>
>In article <1992Dec19.194406.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>
>>wisdom of the inhabitants of the world's most boring and mediocre country
>>(Canada).
>
>Hey, now wait a minute; both David Skoll and I come from Canada.  (Besides
>which, we're certainly not mediocre in Baseball - yes (and here we really

Um, who are we, a bunch of Americans and Dominicans?

>rub it in!) CANADA won the WORLD SERIES!  HA!  Yes the American national
>pastime is now no longer in American hands!

You're not helping our nation's case here:)
>
>:-)
From: bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Brian E. Foont)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A really important Hanuka question
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:51:12 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Dec15.194735.18670@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:
>For years now we've suffered with those silly
>multi-colored candles from Israel that last
>about 7 seconds.  And every year I remember
>the orange candles (I think they were made by
>the Penn Candle Company--something like that)
>that were _candles_.  Last time I saw something
>like them was about 1966.
>
You might try putting you box of candles in the freezer.  This may sound
stupid, but my landlady doubted the effectiveness of this during 
Chanukah last year, and so we conducted an experient, and found that 
the ones that had been frozen tended to last about 50% longer, i.e.
the room temperature ones lasted about 24 minutes, and the frozen ones
lasted 36 minutes.

I hope this works for you.

Brian E. Foont
bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

My opinions are my own, but you may share them.
Date: Friday, 18 December 1992 07:56:46 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <ednclark.724548111@kraken>, ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)  wrote:

  Watch carefully; you're about to see a lot of unsupported
  generalizations about "most religions."  Also, he cites several
  examples which are flat wrong.  Since it was crossposted to
  soc.culture.jewish I'll address the misstatements about
  Judaism.

# rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
# 
# >In article <1992Dec14.214931.5214@Princeton.EDU> jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:
# 
# >   If there is God, we ought to treat our fellow man with the
# >   respect that virtually every religion tells us He commands. And, if
# 
# But in certain religions some people are more important than others. For
# instance there are God's chosen in Judaism and Fundamentalist Xtianity.

  Why did the Creator start with multitudes of other creatures but
  only one pair of humans?  (You obviously are one of the zillions
  who completely misunderstand the concept of election.)

#                                                                         Most
# religions plainly state that women are objects to be dealt with as her man
# (owner) sees fit, providing he meets the laws of the land.

  And in others, the chattel model of matrimony has been out of fashion
  for thousands of years.  Nice try.

#        Unquestioning faith in an authority (any authority) is conducive to
# mindless violence, religion is unquestioning faith in an authority of some
# kind (in most cases).

  Please see the story of the Bat Kol.  "Unquestioning" is not one of
  the better-fitting adjectives for Judaism.

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:05:25 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <102195@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:

>How about:  "Christmas?  Gee, is it Christmastime already?"

Or "Isn't Christmas early this year?"
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:21:31 GMT

On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:15:25 GMT, davidh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Klein) said:

 > [...] Intolerance of any form is unacceptable. [...]

	But is it intolerable?

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Well, is it?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Emunim and trasfer
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:38:31 GMT

In article <92350.1252552893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

# I got into an argument where some silly poster denied that emunim is in favor
# of the "Nazi" policy of transfer.
 
# This is from today's Globe and Mail: "We shouold go house to house in Gaza
#  and Hebron and kick them out" said Rabbi Benny Elon, leader of Emunim
 
# As my friend is himself fond of saying, I guess this makes you a "liar".

	Listen Mr. Ad hominem attack, how can you possibly think that
quote proves your point?  Do you have any idea as to what just took
place (The kidnapping and murder of a police officer inside the
borders of 1967 Israel.)?  The quote could mean any one of a number of
things, such as kick out those they find with guns (there are other
possibiities) that have nothing to do with the Nazi policy of
transfer.o

	Given that, what ad hominem attack is proper here to describe
you?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu