From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:39:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.083348.11342@nuscc.nus.sg> eng10511@nusunix1.nus.sg (RAM VIKASH TIWARY) writes:

# David Makowsky (makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu) wrote:

# : In article <1993Jan11.111129.20038@nuscc.nus.sg> eng10511@nusunix1.nus.sg (RAM VIKASH TIWARY) writes:

# : # : 	And before anyone jumps on me, I am not claiming that it was
# : # : necessary for Israel's self defense just because Israel said it was.
# : # : However, based on the "facts on the ground", I believe even more
# : # : deportations orders of magnitude greater are needed for Israel's self
# : # : defense.

# : # 	What facts are you referring to.

# : 	Terrorism, demograhics, security, resources, etc.  What did you
# : think I was referring to?
 
# 	Do you really believe that such concerns will be alleviated by
# deportation. 

	Not if only 400 are deported.

# : # I strongly disagree with the
# : # assessment that Israel needs to expel Arabs in the interest of its
# : # national security.
 
# : 	Correect.  It does not need to if it decides its national security
# : interests lie in suicide, terrorism, South African apartheid, etc.

# 	As far as suicide is concerned, the present posture of hostility
# and intransigence taken by Israeli leaders is the surest recipe to that
# end.

	How can you call a weak and wimpy policy a "posture of hostility
and intransigence"?  The only people they are being intansigent with
is their electorate who have had just about enough of it.

# Terrorism, well what else would you term what is going on in the
# West Bank and Gaza.  The apartheid analogy baffles me.

	I agreee that Hamas terrorism is going on in Gaza and the
liberated territories of Judea and Samaria.  Here is the apartheid
analogy.  Israel cannot afford to let the Arabs in the liberated
territories vote, and eventually they are going to have to take it
away from the Arabs inside the Green line.  If this does not happen,
the Arabs will eventually be able to outvote the State of Israel.  So
either Israel will cease to exist, or it will become an aparthied
state.  Now, I do not expect the Arabs to sit by and twiddle their
thumbs while living under apartheid, so the only real option is mass
expulsions of those who refuse to live in Israel without political
rights (but they can retain full civil rights).

# : # What constitutes this need may I know.  How can 418
# : # members of an extremist group (and they never got a chance to a fair
# : # trial) pose a threat to a garrison state like Isreal which is more than
# : # a metch for all the armies of its Arab neighbours.
 
# : 	Well, israel is not really a garrison state.  Expulsions will help
# : it prevent becoming one.  Now, in the larger scheme of things, I
# : agree 418 will not do much.  That is why expusions orders of
# : magnitude higher are needed.
 
# 	I suppose the entire Arab population of Greater Israel would be
# of a magnitude sufficient to satisfy you.  When you have thrown the
# dirty Arabs out, you might suggest building a wall to keep them out for
  ^^^^^
	I resent that remark.  I do not consider any Arab to be "dirty"
because they are an Arab.  Arabs, like everyone else (including Jews)
are judged by their actions.

# good. But beware all walls eventually crumble and usually to the
# detriment of its builders (Great Wall, China and Berlin Wall).  Lets
# just suppose this happened, then would terrorism and security concerns
# disappear.

	I do not want to build any kind of wall.  And those that wish to
live in Israel can do so as long as they live peacefully and will not
engage in any conduct detrimental to the survival of the Jewish state.

# Increasing tension and stalling the peace process (two of
# the most tangible achievements of deportations) do you suppose
# increases Isreal's long term security.
 
	There is no "peace" process, only a "piece" process by which
Israel is destroyed piece by piece.  For many reasons, peace is
impossible without divine intervention.  Israel (and everyone else in
the region) had better realize this and plan accordingly if they even
want to exist long term.

# : # It is action of this
# : # nature, without regard to rights and aspirations of others that sets the
# : # civilised world apart from savages.
 
# : 	Wrong.  It is this action which will help prevent the civilized
# : world from being overrun by savages.
 
# Refer above for Great Wall of China analogy.

	Refer above to why it is not a proper analogy.

# : # Israel and is American patrons who
# : # keep harping on human rights and democracy (what democracy did the
# : # native americans get) should stop the farce.  It makes my stomach turn.
# : # Justice is a not objective, it is the will of the powerful imposed on
# : # the weak.  Have the guts to face the facts for what they are.   
 
# : 	Have the guts to get your information out of something other than
# : a Cracker Jack box.

# 	I suppose you derive your facts from sources close to the
# Isreali cabinet.  They sound to me rhetoric uttered more often by
# fanatic followers of Rabbi Kahana.

	These facts are becoming more and more apparent to the Israeli
victims of Arab terrorism which is encouraged by the wimpy response to
that terrorism by the Israeli government.

# : --
# : 	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
# : at math and those that are not.

# 	Could you please sum for me 1 + 1

	Could you please look up the word "joke" in a dictionary?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu