HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ps@uta.fi (Pertti Suomela)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d,comp.windows.ms.programmer
Subject: Re: Linked Lists...
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:42:13 GMT
	<11DEC199208185618@trentu.ca> <1gkia2INN31u@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>
Organization: Tampere University, Finland
In-reply-to: rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU's message of 15 Dec 92 12:16:02 GMT

In article <1gkia2INN31u@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Kendall Bennett) writes:
 > cclark@trentu.ca (J. Chris Clark) writes:
 > >In article <1992Dec11.080213.6552@ugle.unit.no>, mariusk@solan.unit.no (Marius Kjeldahl) writes...
 > >>You should look into the CLASSLIB objects. I think they've got the most
 > >>usual lists, stacks, heaps and more adt covered in CLASSLIB. OWL for instance
 > >>uses CLASSLIB.

 > >Specifically, it's called the "container class library".  I looked at it
 > >once, considered using it, then decided that the overhead (probable run-time
 > >and my learning/frustration time) wasn't worth it for a doublly-linked list
 > >and I wrote the procedures in about an hour.

 > Actually, a good implementation of linked lists as a C++ class (forget
 > the whole concept of a container class library and go back to the old
 > concept of an ADT), can be more efficient than a set of nice routines
 > in C. Of course programmer's in C tend to write linked list code
 > inline anyway, using pointer arithmetic, but a C++ class can really
 > help to take the load of using lists etc.

The implementation of lists in CLASSLIB is quite braindead. For
example, you cannot insert or delete items in the middle of the list.
I cannot imagine any use for such a list.
--
Pertti Suomela

Internet: ps@uta.fi
X.400:    G=Pertti S=Suomela O=uta ADMD=fumail C=fi
From: rol@grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr (Paul Rolland)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: NonDos
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:19:04 GMT
Followup-To: alt.msdos.programmer
Organization: Apple Computer Europe

In article <18240@mindlink.bc.ca>, Robert_LaCasse@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert
LaCasse) wrote:
> 
> I have discovered in my chkdsk/f.com a reply stating--PROBABLE NON DOS DISK--
> every time I on my Hard c: drive the boot sector seems to be working just
> fine in booting up but I think that my partition section must be snafued
> since the command- PROBABLE NON-DOS DISK- is always displayed on chkdsk/f.
> I realize that this is usally bad news, but nothing apparently seems to be
> wrong with the general operation of the unit. I tried to sys c: from a floppy
> but the boot is alright. It was suggested that I format, but who wants to do
> that? Are there any other metods of fixing this problem;

Hello,

If my memory is good (and i think it is), this message appears when chkdsk 
doesn't find a DOS signature at the beginning of the FAT. In other words,
the
first byte of your FAT on the C: disk isnot 0xF8.
This is a bad news. It seems to prove that your FAT may be wrong...

> incidentally I put my
> pkunzip files in the DOS directory for faster access, could that be the
> problem?

No, i don't think pkunzip could cause such a problem, even if you are using
beta release. May be a virus... Why don't you run your favorite virus
checker?

Paul Rolland

A bug can be changed to a feature by documenting it. Developpers know !
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.lang.c
From: chambles@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:07:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.120344.13694@netcom.com> erc@netcom.com (Eric Smith) writes:
>
>By general purpose, you mean to exclude SQL, APL, Yacc, Awk, etc., right?
>
>When programmers invent new programming languages to write application
>programs, the application programs they have in mind are usually those
>they have done in the past and/or those they are doing at the time.  For
>that reason, a really general purpose language has to be invented by
>hundreds of programmers.  That means it has to evolve over a number of
>years before it will be really general.  Thus C++ etc.

When you mention a "general purpose" language designed by hundreds 
of programmers, I think of ADA .... and my reaction is:

AAAAAAARrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!

Thank you very much, but no, C is just fine for me.
Really.
-- 
* Billy Chambless   University of Southern Mississippi, USA 
*   chambles@whale.st.usm.edu
*    
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: maxtal@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (John MAX Skaller)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: MAXTAL P/L C/- University Computing Centre, Sydney
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:30:02 GMT

In article <FISCHER.92Dec30223532@orange.iesd.auc.dk> fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer) writes:
>
>>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Malak (malak@grebyn.com)
>
>Michael>    1) It has structured syntactic blocks for constants, types and
>Michael>       variables.
>
>Which is not much of an advantage. Look at all the pain Knuth has gone
>through to work around it.

	Could you explain? Seems to me that the simple concept
of nesting the symbol table so that symbols go out of scope
at the end of the block is very nice.

>
>Michael>    2) It has nested procedures.
>
>Sound like a neat idea but isn't a big deal in practice. Modules in
>much better. If you keep your modules (files in C) small, and keep
>functions local (static) you rarely need nested procedures. Note that
>Wirth is abandoning the idea, too.

	Dont quite agree. Many 'mess-arounds' in C could be avoided
if nested proceedures were supported. C's failure to provide them
possibly results from being designed with archaic architectures
in mind.

	Functional decomposition is a valid technique in my opinion.
So is partitioning the state space with objects. Forcing the programmer
to use data decomposition because functional decomposition is not
properly supported is against the spirit of C++ in my opinion.

>
>Michael>    3) Most importantly, the good structured programming professors
>Michael>       wouldn't be caught dead teaching C (biggotry in my opinion).
>
>A professor that believes the notion of structured programming is tied
>to a specific language should be teaching gardening instead.
>
	But C cannot be used easily for functional decomposition
because it doesn't provide proper support for nested functions.
Structured design may not be tied to a specific language,
but structured programming in a structured language is certainly
easier than in a non-structured one. Do you really want to
write code in the old BASIC (you know, the one with line numbers
and GOSUB without parameters?)

-- 
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
        JOHN (MAX) SKALLER,         maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
	Maxtal Pty Ltd, 6 MacKay St ASHFIELD, NSW 2131, AUSTRALIA
;--------------- SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING SOFTWARE ------------------
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: switzer@beta.uleth.ca (Dean Switzer)
Subject: EISA & VESA busses.
Summary: EISA & VESA Compatible busses
Keywords: EISA VESA standard bus
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: 24 Dec 92 11:59:57 GMT

Does anyone on the net know of any ftp sites having archives of
documentation of standards. There are some of the new standards I'm
having trouble finding info about. My main interest is the eisa and vesa
bus specs. I am seeing motherboards on the market capable of running
both vesa and eisa standards on the same bus. Has anyone used a board
like these and care to comment on it?

Thanx
Deano
--
Deano
* the guy with no sig *
Vc: (403) 329-3726
Internet: switzer@honte.uleth.ca
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3059 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11721 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:717 comp.lang.c++:18600 comp.lang.c:19087
From: fgd3@nifty.UUCP (Fabbian G. Dufoe, III)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re:  Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:55:22 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Fabbian G. Dufoe, III

In article <C003EI.H3u@news.udel.edu> bew@brahms.udel.edu (Ben Williams) writes:
>write application software.  Has anyone written a general purpose language
>to do what I would think is the most common use of computer programming -
>to write application programs?  And if this/these exist, what are they and

   Yes, it's called COBOL.  It's rather widely used. :)

--Fabbian G. Dufoe, III
   350 Ling-A-Mor Terrace South   | GEnie:    F.DUFOE3
   St. Petersburg, Florida  33705 | internet: fgd3%nifty@tct.com
   813-823-2350                   | uucp:     ...tct!deep6!nifty!fgd3

Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Summary: To the fellow who sent me mail (sorry everyone ...)
Organization: :
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 09:03:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.175440.19000@mole-end.matawan.nj.us>, mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes:
 
> I'm afraid that the original statement about C is wrong, and the followup
> at least partly so.  ...
 
> Pascal was designed for teaching; for reasons which I've belabored often
> enough, it's not really suitable for that either.

To the netter in or near Manchester, England, who sent me e-mail on this:
I would like to reply to you, but the return address doesn't work.  If
you'll send me a return address that will work from uunet, I can take
it from there.

Sorry to trouble everyone else, especially on a massive cross-post,
but I don't know which group my erstwhile correspondent was reading.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Summary: Begin at the beginning ...
Organization: :
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 02:30:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.220530.15347@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

> My wife ...  is now interested in learning C programming ...  I, too, have
> an interest in learning C ...

There is a difference between learning C and learning C programming.
 
> 1) There seems to exist C, as well as C++, and possibly other variants.  What
>    are the differences between these?  Which should we learn first?

You really have to learn C before learning C++, but you might as well learn
C++ _programming_ directly.
 
> ...
> 3) How robust is C compared to Fortran for purely number crunching, scientific
>    type applications on the PC?

Neither C nor C++ has an exponentiation operator, and multidimensional arrays
are arrays of arrays of single dimension, or arrays of arrays of arrays of
single dimension, or ...

If you can deal with these, you can get started.  Much of what is done by
nested arrays in FORTRAN is done by arrays of structs in C/C++.
 
> 4) What books would you recommend in learning C (my wife might want to take
>    classes - I do better teaching myself)?  ...

To my taste, nobody has beaten K&R II for C.  For C++, or the non-C part of
C++, you'll need at least two books: a book from which to learn and the ARM
(Elis and Stroustrup, _The Annotated C++ Reference Manual_) for checking the
details.  Since my book hasn't hit the shelves, I'll refrain from comment
on which book you should buy to learn from.

-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: suresh@argon.iss.nus.sg (Suresh Thennarangam - Research Scholar)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Reply-To: suresh@iss.nus.sg (Suresh Thennarangam - Research Scholar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 08:55:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.050515.20871@ncsu.edu> bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer) writes:
>    I'd like to follow-up on some subsequent Posts on this thread.
>
>3) If you are going to go into OOP, DO NOT start off with
>    stuff like Pascal, as one person has suggested. OOP is a
>    completely different mindset than the traditional forms used
>    by Pascal and C. The best language for learning OOP is,
  I concur !

>4) Even if you're not going into OOP, do NOT take up Pascal as
>    a road to C. Pascal is a language that assumes you know
>    very little and places lots of restrictions and
>    inhibitions on you. If you already are a traditional-style
>    programmer, you don't need the knowledge Pascal will
>    teach you (modularization, declaration, etc). Go on into
>    C and avoid having to unlearn all the limits Pascal will
>    place on you.
>
>5) Picking up Assembler prior to learning C isn't a bad idea.
>    Hardly required, tho.

The route I took was such BASIC -> FORTRAN -> Assembler -> Pascal
-> C -> Prolog/Lisp ->  C++. 

I am happy to announce( IMHumble/honestO) that I suffer from few 
prejudices and/or mindsets. Rather than having to unlearn limits I
was ecstatic( as I moved from each language to the next)
that I was finally able to do easily what I had trouble doing 
before. Picking up Assembler IMHO is a truly wise thing to do
if you want to write low-level code and understand porting 
considerations properly. Also knowledge of Assembly language
programming techniques can give you a major insight into
doing things more effciently( a simple illustration is of-course
integer divide/multiply by a power of 2).


      __                  
     (_   / /  o_   o  o |_
     __)/(_( __) (_(_ /_)| )_


***************************************************************************
* Suresh Thennarangam               *  EMail: suresh@iss.nus.sg(Internet) *
* Research Scholar                  *         ISSST@NUSVM.BITNET          *
* Institute Of Systems Science      *  Tel:  (065) 772 2588.              *
* National University Of Singapore  *  Facs.: (065) 778 2571              *
* Heng Mui Keng Terrace             *  Telex: ISSNUS RS 39988             *
* Singapore 0511.                   *                                     *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: mbrousse@cs.ulowell.edu (Marc Brousseau)
Subject: Re: bios password problem (how to bypass)
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:37:44 GMT

In article <tomcat.725931722@cwis> tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jeffrey S. Jo) writes:
>umfinla5@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Doug Finlayson) writes:
>
>>I have a friend who has inadvertently added a password to the bios and 
>>then forgotten it. Is there an easy way to reset the bios , without
>>attempting to remove the battery ? 
>>I don't know the bios manufacturer . 
>>Is there  a default password for AMI bios ,for example? 
>
>>Thanks for any help,
>
>>Doug Finlayson
I think on AST machines there is an internal jumper that can be changed
to bypass the password protection scheme.
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: ort@netcom.com (David Oertel)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Followup-To: comp.lang.c++
Summary: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 07:15:10 GMT



bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer) writes:
    of course, Smalltalk. I wouldn't want to DEVELOP anything
    in Smalltalk, but if I were to start learning OOP, I think
    that would be the best language to learn the concepts in.

Could someone elaborate on why Smalltalk is not a good development language if
this is not too FAQy?  I've been successfully developing products through rapid
iterative prototyping without any up-front design.  I've gotten good results
by throwing prototypes at the customer and letting him free associate to 
determine future direction.  Maybe Smalltalk would support this M.O. better
than C++, because I'm spending a lot of time compiling.  Maybe hardware is
getting fast enough to compensate for interpretation, garbage collection, and
slow method resolution.

thanks in advance,
Dave Oertel
ort@netcom.com
-- 
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3060 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11723 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:718 comp.lang.c++:18608 comp.lang.c:19092
From: norman@mdavcr.mda.ca (Norman Goldstein)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Setting up serial ports
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:48:35 GMT
Followup-To: alt.msdos.programmer
Organization: MacDonald Dettwiler, 13800 Commerce Parkway, Richmond, BC, Canada  V6V 2J3

zjtp04@trc.amoco.com (John T. Penn) writes:
: 
: In article <1992Dec30.200952.5153@panther.mot.com>, ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
: > Being my first post, I hope this is the appropriate newgroup.
: > 
: > I am a Unix/C/Assembler type that finds himself in the position of having to
: > write/port an app. on an IBM PC.  One of the functions needed is to establish
: > carrier on a modem.  My problem?  How do I setup the com?: port using 'C'.
: > Asking the user to use the DOS mode command would be sort of kludgy.
: > Can anybody give some leads?  Books?  Examples?
: > 
: > Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!
: > 
: > 
: > Thanks in advance, 
: > -- 
: > 
: > >
: > Ron Feigen
: > ronf@panther.mot.com
: 
: 
: There are numerous ways of initializing a serial port with 'C'. My standard
: method is to directly write to the UART addresses. A more commonly used method
: is to use a library function such as `_bios_serialcom`. Most `C` compilers for
: DOS have this function or one that is similar. If you wish to write directly
: to the port addresses, the proper function to use would be 'outp','outport`,
: `outportb', etc., again depending on the compiler you are using.
: Good Hunting...
: 
: John

If you want all the hardware details of the serial port, of course the
hardware spec (e.g. for National Semiconductor 16450) will have all the
"hard" :-) details.  Borland is offering a sample driver (source) from their
bulletin board, (408)439-9096; it is called SERIAL.ZIP.  I have a shareware
product called SERIOUS which is a DOS installable device driver for 
serial ports, and offers a C/C++/ASM interface to the application programmer.
It is available in the net ibm archives, and various boards elsewhere.  If
you want to try it, and have trouble finding it, please let me know.
-- 
NAME 	Norman Goldstein
EMAIL	norman@mda.ca
SNAIL	13800 Commerce Parkway, Richmond BC, Canada V6V 2J3
PHONE	(604) 278-3411 ext 2779 (Voice); (604) 278-2936 (FAX)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: bew@brahms.udel.edu (Ben Williams)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:08:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.230420.4243@sequent.com> furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes (among other things in an excellant article):

;                                         PASCAL was designed solely
; for the purpose of teaching structured programming as espoused by
; Tom DeMarco, Richard West, et al. C was written in 1969 for the
; express purpose of providing a general purpose Operating Systems
; language that was portable, (spelled UNIX).
; 

  Yes, isn't it interesting that two of the most popular general purpose
languages for writing applications software were not designed to be used to
write application software.  Has anyone written a general purpose language
to do what I would think is the most common use of computer programming -
to write application programs?  And if this/these exist, what are they and
how do you rate them?  [just curious]

Ben.

-- 
Ben Williams
bew@brahms.udel.edu

               What we got here is a failure to communicate... 
Xref: sparky alt.msdos.programmer:3034 comp.os.msdos.programmer:11665 comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer:693
From: mhughes@comtch.spk.wa.us (Mark Hughes)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.la
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:39:18 GMT
Organization: Waffle BBS at CompuTech Spokane, Washington

pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
> For a person who does not know structured programming ideas, Pascal is a
> must. The people who have the most difficulty (in my experience in
> teaching C) are those who are experienced in COBOL, BASIC and FORTRAN.

  Now waitaminit.  That is *NOT* correct.  I myself learned to program in 
BASIC and a smattering of Assembly.  After the first few years, I started 
spontaneously organizing my programs as subroutine calls and loops (yes, 
BASIC has loops - you just have to explicitly code them as IF...GOTO 
lines).  It's the only organization that really makes sense for large 
programs...  And when I started working in C, I discovered that my coding 
style was considered normal (tho' I must admit I'm less neurotic about 
GOTO than most C or Pascal programmers...  perhaps because I know that 
all loops are just CMP...JMP statements in assembly).
 
  When I taught myself COBOL and FORTRAN later, I found that both of 
these have better looping constructs than BASIC did.  I see no reason why 
structured programming would be difficult in either of them.  It may not 
be as elegant-looking as C, but it produces the same results.
 
> =5) Picking up Assembler prior to learning C isn't a bad idea.
> =    Hardly required, tho.
> 
> Many explanations of what C can do (and more importantly, what you did
> wrong in your program) are best explained to a person who knows what a
> computer does and how it does it, a background that is acquired fairly
> easily by learning any assembly language. IMO, of course.


  I'd say those who learn assembly are going to be better machine-level 
programmers in the long run, but it's not something really required.  You 
learn just as much about how the machine works from programming in a 
high-level language as in assembly.  (By machine-level programmers I mean 
people who rewrite their OS, or modify system calls, etc., not people who 
program in assembly - that'd be a self-evident statement, eh?)
 
  In fact I'd like the computer makers to ship a C compiler & editor 
(preferably integrated) and a good book on learning C ("Programming in 
C", by Stephen Kochan, was the book I learned from) with all computers 
instead of BASIC.  It's no harder to learn to program in C than in BASIC, 
and C is a lot more useful (since you get a real executable out of it) 
and socially acceptable (too many snobs look down on BASIC...  <sigh>)

 - Mark Hughes (Caves of Steel 509-624-1821)  mhughes@comtch.spk.wa.us
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Setting up serial ports
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:09:52 GMT

Being my first post, I hope this is the appropriate newgroup.

I am a Unix/C/Assembler type that finds himself in the position of having to
write/port an app. on an IBM PC.  One of the functions needed is to establish
carrier on a modem.  My problem?  How do I setup the com?: port using 'C'.
Asking the user to use the DOS mode command would be sort of kludgy.
Can anybody give some leads?  Books?  Examples?

Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!


Thanks in advance,




-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com