From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.women,soc.men,talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: Arab preservation of "european" thought
Summary: What is this about Arabs
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:29:42 GMT
Followup-To: talk.philosophy.misc
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <Bz10nC.Du3@nic.umass.edu> quilty@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Humberto Humbertoldi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.215758.28173@panix.com> jk@panix.com (Jim Kalb) writes:
>>In <Bz02s5.6Ho@nic.umass.edu> quilty@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Humberto Humbertoldi) writes:

>Medieval Arab scholars discussed Virgil at quite great length; and
>were responsible for his preservation when the work was largely lost in
>Europe.
>       The case with the Greeks is much clearer than with Virgil and
>other Romans, however.  There was some preservation of the traditions
>of Roman philosophy in Medieval Europe -- but quite literally NONE of
>Classical Greek thought (and by this I roughly include the wide area
>of Greek contact:  Phonecia, Egypt, Palestine, and elsewhere).

Come on you are kidding me! 90% of all surviving Classical texts whether
Greek or Roman have as the oldest surviving manuscript a copy from the
Court of Charlemange. That is the scholars working under Charlemange
preserved 9 out of 10 Classical texts we have today. That is ONE European
court, ONE European scholastic group preserved 90%. He also invented the
script you and I are using today. Perhaps you might like to name a single
Classical text which was preserved by the Arabs? As for Virgil to say
that his work was lost in the West is a joke which I doubt you can prove.
Perhaps you might like to list all the Arabic scholars who discussed Virgil
at all - and what happended to them when caught.

>  In
>1000 A.D. there was quite literally not ONE LIVING EUROPEAN who knew
>the classical Greek language!

Another ignorant blunder. Byzantium was in 1000 AD alive and well. It's
official language which everyone had to speak was Classical Greek. I guess
you don't count the Greeks as European? What about the Bulgars, Serbs and
Russians? All of them had scholars/monks using and studying Classical Greek


>Both the language and the texts of
>classical Greece were preserved only by Arab scholars.

Wrong - see above. Name one text if you can.

>Even in the 13th Century, much of the Classical Greek
>tradition still existed only in the Arab world, however.

Wrong again. See Byzantium above where the Classical tradition was very
much alive.

> The full
>collection of texts now extant were not brought to Europe until
>sometime later than this.

Wrong again - the full collection of texts (or at least 90% of them)
never left Europe and were never reintroduced

>  None of this is to insult the intellectual
>tradition of Turkey, of course

What intellectual tradition? Can you name one Turkish intellectual who
has had any impact on European thinking? or Western civilisation? or
Arab civilisation? or anywhere outside Turkey?

>Millenium A.D. were extensive, in any event).  Most of Greek thought
>was brought to Europe through the conquest ("Crusades") of
>Islamic/Arabic Iberia by European Christians.

Wrong again. The Renaissance started in Italy brought on by the large
number of Greek Scholars fleeing the brutal conquest, pillage and rape
of the Eastern Empire by the semi-savage Turks. This is a matter of
historical record - large numbers of Byzantine scholars went to Italy
and opened schools. That is why the Renaissance started in Italy and
not in Spain or Southern France.

Nor did the Europeans conquer Iberia - they LIBERATED it. You know like
Palestine might one day be liberated from the foreigners who have come
and stolen the land from the rightful owners killing thousands of them.
(spot the sarcasm)

The Arabs played little or no part in Western Civilisation. What part
they did play was mostly as intermediaries - bring paper to Europe from
China for instance. You can see this by listing the number of European
scholars who felt the need to learn Arabic.     That's about all of them.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: alt.feminism