From: garrett@Ingres.COM (It's not what you got, it's what you give)
Subject: Re: Bill & Hillary are Socialists (was SOMEBODY'S GOT TO SAY IT)
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Summary: Point/Counterpoint  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
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Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Distribution: usa
Date: 6 Nov 92 04:59:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.032716.29047@news.acns.nwu.edu>, dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)                 writes...
>In article <1992Nov5.220430.1@vxcrna.cern.ch> zeus@vxcrna.cern.ch writes:
>>
>>There are many fine words spoken by communists on many subjects.
>>Not least the condemnation of slavery which was seen by both the
>>communist and Socialist movements as evil long before abolition.
>>McArthy was not a notable advocate of freedom of thought or
>>expression, It is very noticaqble that those who jump up and down 
>>screaming that anyone who gives a damn about anyone other than
>>themselves is and evil Stalinist bent on destroying society and 
>>removing all freedom of thought attempt precisly these things. They
>>attempt to destroy society by dividing it into rich and poor and
>>attempt to silence anyone who protests against them by yelling
>>Socialist in a venemous way in the hope that it may eventually become
>>a form of abuse.
> 
>Might I remind you that Nazi Germany was a socialist state.

In name only. And not even that after they were elected. Nazi Germany was
a Fascist state. Hitler made many speeches about how the evil menace to
the world was, you guessed it, communist Russia.

  It is when people
>develop the type of groupthink that socialism encourages and sacrifice        
>themselves and their minds to the state that tragedies such as The Holocaust
>occur. 

Don't confuse Communism and Socialism. Also, don't confuse Nazi Germany
with liberal thinking.

>>After years of telling the whole world that Liberals, Socialists
>>and Progressives were all evil monsters, that anyone who dared
>>to defend civil liberties was bent on enslavement of the people
>>under a Stalinist regime, that anyone who disagreed with them
>>was unamerican, now we know the truth. The American people have
>>chosen Liberal Progressive and Socialist policies.
> 
>Socialists are one of the greatest advocates of eliminating civil liberties. 

Whoa! Just who has tried to destroy such civil rights as Habius Corpus,
right of privacy (ie drug testing), freedom from unwarrented searches,
and seizing your property before the trail? You guessed it, the Republicans.
The Warren Court, a liberal court, expanded countless civil rights. The
Rehnquist court has eliminated countless. If you want to put this in a 
historical context then look at the conservatives in the 50's. The 
Puritans of America and England (they actually outlawed Christmas). 

>What could be a greater blow to liberty than to have your government make your
>choices for you and impose upon you what the state thinks is best?

No arguement. But the question is, who is more likely to do this?
> 
 I am glad that the
>>American people have chosen to rebuild the great society which
>>Franklin Roosevelt and John Kennedy stood for.

Don't count your eggs before they hatch.
> 
>[deletions]
> 
>>Returning to the original point. I hope that Bill Clinton does
>>turn out to be a Socialist, just as the greatest US President
>>this Century, FDR did.

I wouldn't put money on it.

 Today a solution must be found to the
>>devastation caused by the failed policies of Bush and Regan.
> 
>I blame FDR's programs for many of today's problems.  His agenda did not bring
>the US out of depression, WWII did.

FDR cut the unemployment rate in half before WWII started.

  The creation of the government controlled
>Federal Reserve was part to blame for the Depression, it was not all Hoover's
>lack of policy. 

No it wasn't Hoover. It was Coolidge. Just like it wasn't Bush's fault
for the current problems. It was Reagan.

 A move closer to socialism will only succeed in quickening
>our country's downfall.

Freudian slip? Did you just admit that we are going downhill becuase of
Reagan/Bush?
>  
>Douglas C. Meir
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:60073 ca.politics:9568 misc.legal:19903