HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amuser@cs.curtin.edu.au (Bill Sharp-Smith AUG)
Subject: Re: Complete A4000/A600/A570 Press Release
Keywords: AA, Display Modes
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:59:34 GMT

kcd@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ken Dyke - Amiga Networking) writes:

>In article <Chris_Millar.04jz@lppl.mi.org> Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar) writes:
>>A humble request:  Could some kind soul post a COMPLETE list of resolution
>>modes - including colors avaibale, interlace, non-interlaced, HAM, etc.
>>I would be much obliged........

>This should give you a rough idea of what modes AA is capable of.  There
>are a few more, such as double-scanned NTSC and PAL modes as well.

Are the double scanned PAL/NTSC modes exactly the same in pixel
dimensions and aspect ratio as the older equivalents ?

Eg. can I get 640x512 non-interlaced and expect my existing pictures to
look the same, just not interlaced ?
I am in a PAL country.

Also, the lists I have seen of graphics modes always show the NTSC modes
eg 1280x400 interlaced. Is the PAL equivalent 1280x512 available as   
well ?

>-Ken

>-- 
>Kenneth Dyke                                  All of the above opinions are my
>Commodore-Amiga Networking Group              own and not necessarily those of
>email: kcd@cbmvax.commodore.com               my employer.

>        "You'll get over it.  If not, you'll learn to live with it."
-- 
 ________________________________________________________________________
/[  /~7 / / /~~ /  / /~7 | Email: amuser@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au          ]
 [ / 7 /_/ /_7 //l/ / 7  | By post: PO Box 595, Cloverdale,W. Aust 6105  ]
 [ Amiga Users Group of  |                                               ]
 [ Western Australia Inc | Opinions expressed are my own etc...          ]
 [_______________________________________________________________________]
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dvan@crash.cts.com (David Vandeven)
Subject: Jeff Young is a Tweeker
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:52:40 GMT
Summary: jyoung? What a GEEK
Keywords: Tweeker,imbecile,atavism


Somebody come clean...  Is jyoung an actual person, or perhaps the rantings
of some freshman joke concieved while snorting Dran-O?

The weirdness factor around here is definitely arisin'.

David Vandeven-     ********************************************************
Systems Progammer   *   "If you can't say something nice, say something    *
                    *       SURREAL"  Zippy the Pinhead                    *
You down wit OOP?   *               (dvan@crash.cts.com)                   *
 Yeah, you know C!  ********************************************************

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23983 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13886
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: No AGA for current users!?! *Excuse Me?*
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:25:14 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes:

>I have to say maybe we 3000 owners deserved it... I mean, for years, people
>have been posting to complain about the A1000 being orphaned, and we reply
>with an air of superiority, why didn't you take any of the dozens of powerups
>to a 2000 or 3000?

  C'mon, it's not like your clock circuit expired the day the A4000 was 
released or anything, it's as functional as it ever was.  It will continue
to be as well until the majority of new applications start to demand AA level
chipsets.

  As for the A1000, it served me well and I never saw a need to "upgrade" to
the A2000.  I leap-frogged to the A3000 and will probably bypass the A4000
in the same way.

  -jack-
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unix for the masses, was Re: C= (Sweden) does things right!
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:29:04 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Sep13.210310.15279@ultb.isc.rit.edu> eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story ) writes:
>>   Now if Commodore had designed into the AA chipset some high-resolution
>>non-interlaced display modes on the order of 1280x1024 or higher with limited
>>color capabilities, Commodore could have been able to push into the low-end
>>UNIX market with Amiga UNIX systems that are dirt cheap to manufacture and
>>yet good enough to actually be sellable as UNIX workstations.  But with the
>>AA chipset having no non-interlaced Productivity-style modes with resolutions
>>higher than 640x480, they will not be able to do this.  
>
>Huh?  C= specifically mentions the same altering of resolution
>capability as in the ECS in their "A4000" press release!  The AGA can do
>1280 across, dude.  There's nothing preventing the AGA from doing
>800x600 in 16 colors, 1024x768 in 4 colors or 1280x1024 monochrome all
>noninterlaced.

   sorry, but you cannt get solid technical details from press releases.  First
of all, the AGA Lisa chip cannot generate any resolution modes that are not
also possible (but with more limited color capabilities) in the ECS Denise.
If you cannot generate a certain resolution mode with the ECS Denise, then it
is not possible with the AGA Lisa chip either.

   The Lisa chip does include an on-chip scan-doubler/deinterlacer, but this
is really only slightly improved from the external display enhancer of the
A3000.  It now handles all 15Khz modes, including SuperHiRes.  But it is
still not capable of deinterlacing any modes that are not 15Khz PAL/NTSC modes.
This means that the Super72 800x600 mode is always interlaced in the AGA
chipset (it's 24.62Khz), as is the 640x960 Productivity Interlaced mode (which
is 31Khz).

   So, if you can generate a 1280x1024 non-interlaced display mode on your 
A600 or CDTV, then you can generate one on the A4000.  But if you cannot
generate such a mode on the A600 or CDTV, then you cannot do it on the A4000.

>"THAT is a DRY turtle.  That turtle is NOT moist!"
>Ezra Story, a student at RIT, and
>eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:31:16 GMT

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>In <1992Sep3.153612.7650@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>> [more of the same old tripe deleted]
>> This is a lie.

>Marc, you wouldn't recognize a lie when it jumped right out of your mouth.

Well, you do know how to tell when a lawyer is lying, don't you? I think
the same technology can be applied here.
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
From: skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:15:32 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <jorngh.15.716550385@dhhalden.no> jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN GUNNAR HALONEN) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.153710.20705@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>>	Why would they bother?  The only Amiga that has the AGA chipset
>>  is the A4000.  The Amiga that is truly going to sell well, the A600, still
>>  only has the ECS.  Where the heck is Commodores affordable AGA chipset
>>  machines??  Do they call the A4000 at over $3000 without a monitor 
>>  affordable?
>
>Affordable ? YES!
>
>I wonder why you americans whine about prices all the time, no matter
>how low the prices are they still are too high. I wish I could buy an
>Amiga 4000 for _ONLY_ $3000, but I live in Norway and I expect to pay
>about $4500 for it (roughly calculated). Yet I won't complain.

Hey, I'm an American and I'm certainly not whining about the price.  Amiga
owners in this country have been treated much better than owners of other
computers and better than Amiga owners in other countries, in fact much
better than we deserve.  Given all of the complaining about the prices,
the lack of AGA for the A3000, etc., I can understand why you would come
to the conclusion that we are all whiners.

If Amiga owners would like to see C= continue to develop new hardware and
software, then support the company by buying something!  If you think that
a $2000 486, SVGA, and SoundBlaster combo from the Bozo Clone Emporium is 
such a great deal, then buy one and try to be happy about it.  But you'll
be in the same situation as A3000 owners are now when the P5 machines with 
XGA and SuperSoundBlaster Pro are available next year for the same price.

>*JORN* (A3000)

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: terjem@stud.cs.uit.no (Terje Normann Marthinussen)
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Organization: University of Tromsoe
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:09:18 GMT

In article <Holt-150992075346@128.95.214.231>, Holt@cheme.washington.edu (Brad Holt) writes:
>In article <jorngh.15.716550385@dhhalden.no>, jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN
>GUNNAR HALONEN) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <1992Sep14.153710.20705@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>> >	Why would they bother?  The only Amiga that has the AGA chipset
>> >  is the A4000.  The Amiga that is truly going to sell well, the A600, still
>> >  only has the ECS.  Where the heck is Commodores affordable AGA chipset
>> >  machines??  Do they call the A4000 at over $3000 without a monitor 
>> >  affordable?
>> 
>> Affordable ? YES!
>> 
>> I wonder why you americans whine about prices all the time, no matter
>> how low the prices are they still are too high. I wish I could buy an
>> Amiga 4000 for _ONLY_ $3000, but I live in Norway and I expect to pay
>> about $4500 for it (roughly calculated). Yet I won't complain.
>> 
>> *JORN* (A3000)
>
>   Well, if you got rid of your import tariff and VAT it might be more
>affordable

The A4000 will be produced in a ECC country, therefore no import tariff to
Norway.....

There will be 20 % VAT though but if C= restartet the student discounts
which they had a couple of years back (30 % discounts) it might actually
get dirt cheap here too....

I have big hope for C= in Norway though. C= has just kick the old boss
out of the Norwegian division and replaced him with a person named 
Tom Jahr.

Tom jahr is actually a well known person in the Norwegian Amiga community
and in the last issue of the Norweigian computer magazines "Data Tid" 
he said that C= Norway wanted to get back into the market by offering
quality computers for clone prices.....

Let's just hope that this might get true....

Personnaly at least, I have a good feeling about this.
When I last spoke to my dealer this morning, there was still not any 
Norwegian price available, but he said that approx 20000 N.kr (probably before
VAT though) had been mentioned (approx 3600 dollar).
If this is close to the final retail price I would most certainly feel very 
pleased with the price. It would most certainly beat the hell out of any 
competition by Apple in Norwau (hmmm i think the retial price for a quadra is
about $10000 here....) and would be highly competative with quality 486 EISA 
clones (especially if they add a SCSI and keep the price...).

(Just for the records.... In March this year the retail price of a basic
A3000 25/105 was approx. $5400 + 20% VAT in Norway.....)

(remember though when you look at these prices that the dollar is very low
right now)

I don't know about how you in all the other countries out there feel about 
C= right now, but at least here in Norway I feel optimistic about the future.
There seams to be a lot more than just development of new computers
going on in the organisation.....


Terje Marthinussen
terje@stud.cs.uit.no

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:43:12 GMT

In <1992Sep15.060537.24941@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   If the system had the capability of using much more chip RAM (16M, for
>instance) and if the 256-color mode was much more speedy, I am sure that a
>lot more people would want to run the Workbench in 256-color mode all of 
>the time.  

You mean like those people with SVGA cards with 16M video memory ?

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:09:47 GMT

In article <0w9ylfc@rpi.edu> danaf@rpi.edu writes:
> "Here's the new Amiga 4000. It's better than any IBM or Apple system currently
> available, and they probably won't be able to catch up for at least a couple of
> years. It's not gonna run your old software, and the old Amigas aren't gonna 
> run the new software, so you'd better get out there and buy a new computer.

I'd sure do that. I'd get a 486DX2/50 and QNX for less than the Amiga 4000
cost, I'd get a faster processor, a better operating system (think of QNX as
networked protected mode AmigaOS... it's that good, and it's UNIX-compatible),
and I can go into any computer store and buy peripherals.

It's too late to come up with a new hardware system in the low end. Commodore
has to dance with the ones that brung 'em.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`  
From: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:14:37 GMT
Subject: Re: SCSI Vs. IDE?
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy

In comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> In article <BuFHLn.JGA@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
> says:

> Two IDE drives are supported per cable (daisy chain). However, your point
> is still valid -- IDE in the A4000 is really dumb when you consider that
> C= already had a good SCSI design. You can always count on Commodore to
> abandone a good thing. :-(

Well the move to IDE may not be as dumb as everyone seems to think. 
According to Jim Dionne in his WOC key note address, the move to IDE was 
made for cost reasons. He mentioned the availability of low cost high 
capacity hard drives with IDE interfaces as the major reason. He also 
stated that C= has an 8-bit SCSI card as an option and soon a 32-bit SCSI 
card will be available.

When I look at all the PC clones selling at such low cost with huge hard 
drives I find it hard to argue with his point.


       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------
      | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |
      | Hewlett Packard Firmware QA | HPDesk: Kevin TADDEUCCI /HP5300/A0 |
      | Telnet: 794-4192            | HP Mailstop: 2LR-N                 | 
       ----------------------------- ------------------------------------

 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:02:07 GMT

iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:

>Glad to know my not yet paid for A3000 is an orphaned
>machine.

So was I.  Oh well, I got bitten with my 1000 as well.  You cant avoid it, it 
happens anyway.

>Just who is going to develop software for the new AA chips?
>Since none of the current machines can use them I see no reason to.

Correctly written software (e.g. Prowrite 2.2.4) will automatically be able to
use 256 colour modes.

>And what's the deal with the A600? And the A3000T/040? It makes
>no sense at all! None! Two newly released machines that can't use
>the new chips? Who's going to buy them? Especially the A600? And if
>these machines (the A600...) do sell then why develop software for
>the AA machines as there will what, maybe ten users out there with
>A4000s?

The A600 will be their only no AGA machine.  It will become dirt cheap really
soon.  ($300)
The A3000T/040 is to clear old stock before the replacement ships, and to pay
for the 040 board.

>Commodores "strategy" evades me. I'm totally confused. Somebody send over

C= knows what it is doing, believe it or not.

You WILL be able to get a 3rd party AGA upgrade.

>Ian "Huh? Say what?" Kennedy
>-- 
>/* IanK@Microsoft.com		*/
>/* The AA chips are here! Too bad they won't work in my A3000	*/
>/* Once again C= screws its entire user base. Way To Go!	*/
>/* Now I konw how the A1000 owners felt. Oh well.		*/

If the PC heads had their way the new machine would have been a pc running
AmigaDOS 124.28.  REAL good for compatibility, that.

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: A4000 - Early Impressions
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:35:21 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>One other thing is to release an update of AmigaUX for the A4000.
>>Maybe an A4000T would be nice...  (I am too full of ideas.)
>
>   If Commodore had put a 1280x960 non-interlaced monochrome or limited-color
>mode into the AGA chipset, and had put SCSI on the motherboard, the A4000
>would have made a damn nice low-end machine.  All Commodore would have had 
>to add to it to sell it as a UNIX workstation is a little more memory, 
>slightly bigger drive, monitor, and an EtherNET card.  

The memory and drive seem like a trivial upgrade.  The EtherNET card is
only going to be used by those needing networking, so this is not needed
in the base machine.  Given the A4000's current graphics and expansion
capabilities, adding a graphics board should be a very low cost upgrade.
It does not seem like a Unix system would cost much more than the base
A4000 (except for the cost of AmigaUX, of course).

>   As it is, by time you've added enough hardware to the A4000 to make it
>usable as a UNIX workstation (a video card and SCSI card, in addition to the
>rest mentioned above), Commdore's costs for the system make it impossible for
>them to undercut anybody in the low-end UNIX workstation market.

I will have to look into the costs of the competition.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:35:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.145829.2591@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>
>	For the same price, Gateway 2000 has an EISA 486 50mhz system with
>  32 bit SCSI controller and 340meg SCSI HD.  More ram ( 2meg ).  System is
>  a Tower version, not desktop.  Hicolor SVGA graphics card that offers 
>  higher resolution.

   The functionality isn't the same. The plain and simple fact is that I can
do things with AmigaDOS that I can't do with Windows 3.1 or MS-DOS 5.0. And
the OS of the Amiga is no small factor in comparisons.
   And I won't mention video compatability. Suffice it to say that the MS-DOS
vs. Amiga debate is one of apples and oranges. The unfortunate thing is that
the majority of American computer buyers appear to know little to nothing
about computer specifics and technicalities. All they really see is a box,
lots of colors, and a price tag. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Link
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:15:03 GMT

In article <92254.134033DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

[ ]
>
>Any PC(clone)? No matter how good it is? Interesting...

Yes, any PC clone. It's the OS that is messed up. DOS is terrible. OS/2 on
the other hand is very nice. If it becomes popular I will reevaluate matters
at that time. As it is, it doesn't run any software I use. 
>
>>Yes I was annoyed, becaues the PC world hasn't changed. It's as bad as the
>>days when I has a PS/2 model 80. PC's have set back progress in micro
>
>I guess cheap, hires/hicolor/fast graphics, standardized sound cards, cheap
>CDROMs, and way faster CPU for the same price (486-33 is very common now)
>isn't progress. It is the Amiga that hasn't changed, leaving PCclones
>plenty of time to catch up.

The bus is a problem, the OS is a problem, audio is hardly standard and if 
you call the SB the standard then you've settled on a poor one. CD-ROM's
are not cheap and the software is neither plenitful nor inexpensive. The
CD industry is basically run by people try to bancrupt customer. $70 for
a book. Please...I have a CD-ROM (in fact 3 of them). They are all slow and
essentially only useful for system upgrades, and a few CD's.
 
Graphics on a PC is still not standard. You basically have VGA. Nothing else
is there (unless you use Windows) except for the 8514 and XGA. 
>
>>That's not a lie +/- 50k depending on your memory manager. You simply don't
>>have more than 640k of real RAM (unless you use OS/2 or Unix, which is another
>>story. OS/2 does not support MPC's yet, and Unix is better run on a NeXT, for
>>example. I defy you to point to any evidence that DOS users have more than
>>640k of memory without going the extendor route.
>
>Ever heard of Windows? Windows gives apps access to up to 16MB of memory.
>Nobody claims that it's elegent, but you are just wrong.

I use and own it. It sits on top of DOS. DOS gives you 1 meg. That part
consists of 640k + upper memory. Windows will let you run many 640k type
sessions. It uses virtual memory to get around the 640k issue. This, or
whatever the trick is, has been around for years. Are you telling me that
a Windows application can address in a linear fashion 16megs?          

>
>>Look, Jerry I'm actually pretty open about PC's. I went so far as to get one.
>>I have a number of systems. It's simply the worst  of the lot. Please
>>explain how you get around the 640k issue.
>
>You sound really biased despite your claim to the contrary. For your
>information, I'm a hard-core Amiga user, but it's easy for me to see
>that the Amiga is standing still while PCclones are improving very quickly.


I am biased at this point. I see nothing except for OS/2 version 2.0 which is
nice about PC's. I'm really surprised Apple hasn't taken over.
 
I don't see the Amiga standing still. It needs more sofware, but so do PC's.
Try running one on a network some day.
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy