Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:16:50 -0500 
From: Mark Beirne Lively <ml5a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: God and Science: The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
	<1992Nov11.175302.27720@data-io.com>

	Bear is listening to everyone ramble on about God and science and the
nature of the universe. His gaze is locked on something off in the
distance as his glass slowly slides down out of his hand and lands in
the hot tub floating quietly.  He climbs out of the hot tub with
eveything below his arm pits a pale pinkish color.  He walks behind a
pillar and his appearal is transfored into a light jacket, shorts and a
short sleeved shirt(I thought I would interject a little narrative, Bear
with me :) )  He flips Mike a large silver coin.  "Muck."
	Mike looks in disgust and the retrieves a murky brown substance in a
glass and hands it to Bear with a slight look of disgust on his face. 
Bear accepts the glass and takes a sip of the swirling fluid.
	"I've been listening to all of this and I have a few things to
interject random scattered thouhgts."
	He takes a large piece of chalk and begins inscribing complex intricate
patterns on the floor.  short joined and disjointed line segments
attached at seemingly random angles.  It is all one hetrogenous mass of
lines and squiggles with no real border or defining boundry.
	"This IS the truth little bits of random information, which reflect
what each of feel at any given moment.  These have no real meaning in
and of themselves and can only be analized in the subjective now.  In
another times they are just meaningless scribbles.  At least they look
nice."
	"Onward on the quest for the ultimate truth we reach the fable of the 6
blind men and the Elephant is is a snake, or a tree or a wall, or an
army of fierce pigmies, or a fan or a giraffe or a collection of
squiggles on the ground."  Bear says as he points to the newest set of 
drawings which strangely resemble an elephant.
	"What will we accept as true.  What we see or percieve, what we are
told other people see or percieve, what other people tell us we see or
percieve.  There are little bits of truth in everything.  Science and
religion aren't forces at odds with each other they are complimentary. 
Religion tells morally right from wrong and science tells us physically
right from wrong, ie entropy can't revese, things fall down and never
up.  You may ask why do I need religion to tell me whats write and
wrong, I can figure it out for myself.  But where do you get the basis
for your own judgements.  Thoughts do not spring forth fully formed into
human minds.  People did not all of the sudden assume that Killing is
Bad, it took time and evolved from stories and Mythos which themselves
form the Basis of religions."
	"Science and religion need not even butt heads.  A very scientific
proof of the existance of God was given by Saint Thomas Aquinas I
believe.  It was based on the principle of cause and effect.  For every
effect there is a cause.  Now if you trace all of these causes back to
the begining of time you reach a root caust the Motis Prime.  The thing
which caused all following things to happen, This is God."
	"What exactly is the truth?  Do we believe what we see and hear?  How
far do we believe what other people see and hear?  Have you ever seen
God face to face?  Do you know someone who has?  Do you believe that
person?  Can it ever be proven that God does exist?  How?  Would you
have to see him yourself?  Would you like Thomas have to put your
fingers in his hands and your fist in his side?  Can it ever be proven
that he doesn't exist?  Remember the truth is right in front of you"  
	Bear says as he points at the lines of chalk covering the floor.  Then
he blows down at the floor and a huge cloud of chalk dust flys up
obscureing everything in a fine white cloud.  "Or maybe not..."

-I remember the the glory days when we sat with the king.
Dining on meh yams and washing it down with red rum.
ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender
Newsgroups: alt.callahans