From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Is this wrong, or what?
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:52:04 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:

}In article <b0bC035Qc7Bq00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston) writes:
}> In the first place, you said that the man was *going to be arrested* for
}> child molestation.  And you seem to have taken his supposed suicide as
}> proof of his guilt.  Based on what you posted, *I* refuse to presume
}> that the man is guilty, therefore for me, the entire basis for your
}> outrage is non-existent.  Frankly, I am more outraged that our society

}Consider the choices:

}1. Commit suicide, and let everyone assume that you had something to
}be ashamed of, or,

}2. Go to trial, and take your chances on being convicted.  If you are
}a person of wealth, and have a good attorney, even if you are guilty,
}you may create enough doubt to be acquitted.

}Sorry, but someone who takes #1 as a choice, is telling me that he
}knows he doesn't stand a chance at trial.  I certainly wouldn't use
}suicide as proof of guilt for purposes of governmental action, but
}for the sort of individual moral judgments we make every day, it's
}sufficient.

Typical of you, Mr. Cramer.  There is *no* possibility other than
that which you have already made up your mind *must* be true.

Sorry, but it is also perfectly reasonable that the man knows the
witch-hunt mentality that exists on this subject; knows that there
are enough people like you and Mr. Ronzone in the world who believe
an accusation implies guilt; knows that whatever the outcome of a
trial, his standing in the community will be permanently destroyed;
knows that whatever the outcome, a trial would be extremely hard on
his family and might very well leave them drained of all money; and
so decides that it is just better all around to commit suicide.  This
is even more reasonable if, as is apparently the case, the man in 
question is nearing the end of his life anyway.  Sorry, but given
the facts as presented, it is wildly inappropriate to assume that
the suicide implies guilt.

}> has taken on a witch-hunt mentality with regard to child molestation
}> to such an extent that the mere threat of *arrest* can drive a man to
}> suicide, if that was indeed what happened.  I am also not prepared to

}Odd.  Lots of people are charged with child molestation, and fight
}it out in court.  For example, the former San Clara County Supervisor
}who was accused, and later found innocent.  Oh yes, messy divorce
}proceedings were involved.

Odd.  People are different.  Some are able to cope with and fight
situations that drive others to suicide.  Does the fact that some
people are willing to put themselves through hell imply that the
hell really isn't so bad after all?

}> Secondly, even if I assume that the man was guilty, I wouldn't really
}> be outraged at what you describe.  The man clearly was a valuable
}> employee of the company; why shouldn't they honor him for that service?
}> What does his child molestation have to do with what he did for the
}> company?  Oh, I might question the appropriateness of so honoring him,
}> given that he molested a daughter of an employee, and I might suggest
}> that the medal wasn't really proper under those circumstances, but I
}> don't think I would be outraged.

}Of course not.  You aren't outraged about child molestation.  WHAT
}IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?  You must not know any of the victims
}of this sort of thing.

True.  Which is why I am able to be reasonable and rational in my
approach to the situation, rather than to emotionally knee-jerk and
assume the worst as you do.  Look at it this way:  Suppose, just SUPPOSE
for an instant that the unthinkable happens and you, Clayton, are
unjustly and completely falsely accused of child molestation.  Who
would you rather have on your jury, someone like me who waits for all
the facts before making a conclusion, or someone like you and Phil who
assume that arrest equals guilt?  

--James Preston

Newsgroups: ba.politics