HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:26:50 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) says:

>In article <1992Aug12.071020.7284@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1358@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>>>>jojo writes:
>>>>>I think everyone should serve in the army for a year unless they are
>>>>>a concientious objector in which case they are forced to fill
>>>>>potholes in Boston roads for a few months.
>>>>Sounds OK to me.
>>>
>>Oh?  How would it sound if it included women in equal participation with men?
>
>Err, why wouldn't that sound just fine?
>
What I'm asking is, would it be alright with you to require women to register
for the draft, to report to the service when called, to fight in ground combat
units?  Before you answer, extend the premise.

Say it was your wife, with young children at home, or your 18 year-old 
daughter.  Say they pulled a lower number than you, and got called before
you or your 18 year old son.  Is it OK with you then?

Now, for years the draft took all able-bodied men, reguardless of whether they
were new fathers and husbands, or in college, or in other positions of family
responsibility.  True, during viet nam, many of those were defered, but if
a manditory draft were to become law, those deferments would most likely cease
to exist.  

If a draft occurs, in any form, everyone gets hurt.  
Instead of drafting anyone, let's keep things as they are, an all-volanteer
service.  In this way, we can assure that these things never happen.


-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OUTING: Canadian Gold Medallist Swimmer
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:00:00 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

buckmr@vccsouth29.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:


>I'm currently channeling Joe Clark, erstwhile GayNetter and present 
>Village Voice _JockBeat_ columnist:


>And I assume you all know that Canada's gold medalist in the 100m
>backstroke, Speedo/beef/homoerotic Bugle Boy jeans spokesperson Mark
>Tewkesbury, is an homosexualist? Today's papers are full of stories about
>how clean-cut his image is. Either they are working at intense levels of
>irony or... we know something they don't.

>I do not mean to start an outing debate. There is no room for debate. I
>just outed him.


>                                           Joe Clark

The irony here is found in the post/not the newspaper accounts.  To whit,
one cannot be both 'clean cut' and homosexual - which is bunk.  Though
certainly, one cannot be 'clean cut' and a sleazy journalist (better yet,
one cannot be 'clean cut' and a journalist - the adjective is no longer
necessary, but rather, assumed.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Huntsville?  Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 14:26:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug19.154234.10606@infonode.ingr.com> 
norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug18.201315.23020@infonode.ingr.com> 
> >norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
> >> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
[...]
> >> *HEY*!  Can I apply for a position in the "fucking faction"?
> >
> >Absolutely.  The interview and audition can be *murder*, though,
> >so you might want to think about signing up for one of my
> >refresher courses.
>
> Hon (I drawl in my *sweeeetest* Southern accent), I can assure you that
> I am "refreshed" at least daily.

Just daily?  Sweetheart, you'll need to put in a lot more 
practice than *that* to beat out your competition.  Should
I pop an application for my refresher courses in the mail?

> >> >I'm only a pretender to that throne.  
> >
> >But Net Queen has such a *faaaaabulous* ring to it, don't you think?
>
> May I kiss the ring?

Which ring did you have in mind?

[...]
> >I didn't make any campaign promises to you, did I?  (Suddenly worried.)
>
> WHAT???!!!  You don't *REMEMBER*??? (Indignant)

But of *course* I remember!  I was just *teasing* you!

(Huntsville?  Oh dear, what did I say in Huntsville?)

> >>jeff - who appreciates the fact that this thread is lightening up a little
> >>       (but with the same great taste as your regular post.  Thanks Arne).
>
> >Thank *you*.  You know, I've thought of initiating ArneLite, 
> >but I just don't *taste* the same.  I'm *very* happy to know
> >you like the original formula.
>
> However, with the Lite formula, one can comsume more before one passes out
> from Too_Much_Of_A_Good_Thing (tm).

But ArneLite (tm) leaves an unpleasant aftertaste.  Surely
you'd agree that ArneClassic (tm) is worth those extra calories?
Besides, you can always burn them off later while performing
your duties in the fucking faction.

> jeff - who's feelin kinda woozie~~~

Would you like another sip?

Arne




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hartley@centerline.com (Timm Hartley)
Subject: Re: Credit Union Memberships for Domestic Partners?
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: CenterLine Software
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:42:14 GMT

In article <11AUG92.17590300@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov wrote:
> 
>> Daivd and I have a joint account at a national bank.  We asked to have
> both names on the account, and they were happy to do so.  I suspect that
> if you wanted to open an account with, say, Susan Sarandon, and could
> get her to sign the signature card, that this arrangement would be fine.
> I don't know of any banking institution which does not allow anyone to
> decide with whom they want to mix money.

This is true, I guess what I was trying to say (and did a poor job of doing
so) was that we had no hassles with making the benefits available to my SO.
He was able to consolodate his credit cards and drop his interest rate
almost 4%. He's also able to apply for all of their loan offers, most
having very attractive rates. All of this and he's not an employee of an
elligable company. 

Thats what I was really trying to say. (Ithink)   :-)

       Timm Hartley I Production Assistant
CenterLine Software I hartley@centerline.com
      10 Fawcett St I "Back off man! Don't 
Cambridge, MA 02138 I make me use this!!"
                         -Ren Hoek-
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: clc@big-brother.nevada.edu (Chris L. Cobb)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Organization: UCCSNCS
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:24:21 GMT

bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett) writes:
>
>If we really need to have a military, and our society places value on the
>service, then everyone should have to do it.

Gee, and I thought all queers were "pro choice."  I guess that doesn't
apply to everything.  Maybe it is just doublespeak for pro baby-killing.

>Not just the poor and the minorities, but the middle class and the wealthy,
>men and women, and you and me.

Poverty and discrimination are other issues that need to be dealt with.
The world is not a peacful place and each state needs to provide for its
protection.  I think the US is rather fortunate to be able to operate its
military on a voluntary basis.

And, yes, I'm registered with the Selective Service.  And, no, I'm not
from a poor family--we're loaded WASPs.  :-)

--clc

---
Chris L. Cobb -- clc@nevada.edu -- Stealth Bear -- B0 f t+ w c+ g k+ s++ p
Newsgroups: soc.motss

| booing at not only Clinton, but at us.  It is so ironic how someone can
| preach fundamental and moral love for God and of God, but go around and
| despise those who are not "morally" correct.  

It is not ironic at all.  A person who can believe in some particular form
of God is capable of believing anything.  If such a person likes
homosexuals, then they will assert that homosexuality is moral.  If such a
person finds homosexuality distasteful, then they will assert that
homosexuality is immoral.

Such people think with their intestines.  What they intuit they assert to
be true.  If they happen to intuit nice things, they are still dangerous; a
bad night's sleep and they could just as well intuit ethnic cleansing.
Zero-integrity thought is no less dangerous for being momentarily without
an explicit threat.
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:48:37 GMT

coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>Let's hear it for the oral tradition! I hereby offer to educate any of
>you young folks in the finer points of the oral tradition.

What makes you think we need it? :) :) :) :)

						FJ!! (did I write that?
						O gawd, I did. Can I
						still cancel it?)
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:15:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug17.131544.9954
Organization: insert anything here

In article <wb9m1#j.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) 
>writes:

>What would it take?  They'd have to have the copyright and trademark laws
>changed.  Since some of those laws are international treaties, it probably
>wouldn't be easy.

>It's very unusual for a name in common use, for instance, to become private
>property.  The only example I can think of is the use of "Olympics". 

	Don't for get "Bear"  ...  Oops!  I mean BEAR[TM]

BBC
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 17 Aug 1992 13:10:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug17.190349.17219@quantime.co.uk> 
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> In article <l8ualaINNl84@mizar.usc.edu>,
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> > I mentioned having found a tape of myself recorded when I was 10 or
> > 11 and being struck by what a faggotty voice I had even that early.
>
> Aged about 8, I heard a tape of my own voice,
> and was struck by how it sounded like a *girl*,
> when all I was trying to do was enunciate *properly*.

Yes, I had something of the same urge to enunciate *very*
clearly when I was a kid.  Part of it had to with the fact
that my mother is significantly hard of hearing so I *had* to
for her to be able to read my lips, and part of it had to do 
with the hideous Great Plains accent they have that I didn't 
want to catch from them.  It didn't work.  When I'm tired or 
not paying attention, I'll say things like "just get red of 
that trash".  (Thank god I don't ever book flights to 
Warshington.)

> > Why is it that I think that's a bad thing?  For it's clear that 
> > somewhere deep down inside I *do* think it's a bad thing.
>
> Aged about 13, I began making a conscious effort to roughen my voice,
> to slur my speech and to adopt a slovenly accent.
> I was becoming too afraid of my voice giving me away.

I did, still do, this occasionally when I'm in dangerous 
surroundings, but I can't imagine I've ever fooled anyone
for even a second.  (I just remembered that I was called 
"ma'am" by telephone operators until I was about 16 or 17.)

> (I also affected something between a swagger and a slouch (a swouch?),
> after one girl asked me how I managed to walk
> with one foot *exactly* in front of the other,
> and another pointed out how bouncily I walked.)

If my voice doesn't give me away, my walk does.  It's
those years of dance class.  And if my walk doesn't,
something else does.  I've never really been *able* 
to hide, so I've never made any concerted effort to try.

[...]
> > ... but the mere fact that it sometimes occurs to me that I would
> > want to change it is worrisome.
>
> I know what you mean.
> My reasons are different, though:
> what I want is to undo the (perceived *) damage I inflicted
> in a misguided attempt to pass.

It's odd what we'll do to ourselves, isn't it.

[...]
> [My screen background today is tiled with glasses,

You've *tiled* that .gif?  Eeeeeeeks!

> through which Arne stares at me balefully.

*Balefully*?!  I'm really a sweet-tempered guy, you know.

> I wonder what his voice sounds like.]

I believe it's been described as euphonious.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ro@panix.com (r l reid)
Subject: Re: Jeans
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:14:39 GMT
Organization: Playdoh's Republic

In article <64366@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I prefer Levis for the very simple reason they're the only jeans
>that come with a BUTTON fly.  I can indulge my preference for 
>going without underwear without worrying about pinching tender
>bits or catching hairs in the damn zipper.

Well, I can dig it, but I got a question - how do you avoid that
embaressing wet spot after you pee?

I *still* think these's a fortune to be made by one of the
one of the "personal products" companies by butching up the
packaging of mini-pads and coming up with a marketing strategy
to sell them to men (the non-penis-challanged) to catch those last
few drop of the famous rhyme.

	(Commercial:  Marlboro Man and Son, out riding on the
	range...
		"Dad, how do you keep yourself...you know....fresh?"
		"Hell, boy, I wash my underwear once a month
	         whether it needs it or not, and I always use
		 Studley Deoderant Super Absorbent Drip Pads
	         with the exclusive mauve adhesive strip"


-- 
		r l reid	ro@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lee Wiley (was Re: Introduction)
Date: 22 Aug 1992 16:12:15 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <os7vkcs@fido.asd.sgi.com> pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:

> But speak to me of Lee Wiley. The name rings a bell.

I'd rather you listen to her sing, but I'll have a (quick) go.
Lee Wiley was an Oklahomoa girl (part Cherokee, of which she
was terribly proud and always mentioned) who ran away from
home very young and, by the middle-late '20s had become a top
club singer in Chicago and New York.  She moved permanently to
New York in 1930 or '31 and started to sing on the radio in addition
to her nightclub appearances (both singing and boozing it up with
her friends, for she was a club goer).  She started recording in 
the late '30s, but she never recorded very much.  Her "drop dead 
if you don't like the way I'm singing" attitude probably accounts for
why she didn't become as famous or popular as her contemporaries
and only true rivals, Billie Holiday and Mildred Bailey.  Like them, 
Wiley is truly sui generis.  I can't really do justice to the way 
she sang, but the emotion that always comes through is a sort of wry, 
amused detachment.   And yes, I've heard it rumored (completely
unsubstantiated but believable) that she was family.

Arne
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:36:40 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug20.024320.9035@infonode.ingr.com>,
norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> >In article <2a913ae1@ThreeL.co.uk>,
> >jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
> >> ... the voice they *think* they have
> >> they usually hear through about two inches of head. 
> 
> >Oh, no, not me!  I *never* talk with my mouth full.
> 
> Full?? with only *two* inches?  Have you tried mouth stretching exercises?

Diameter, darling.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"The best way to find something you've lost is to buy a replacement."
-- Ann Landers
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:16:46 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <71318@apple.Apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:

>Nelson Minar: "Is 'queer' postmodern?"
>
>Jeff Norris: "Who cares?"
>
>a flying squirrel: "oh."

*snap*

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Rob Bernardo
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:43:19 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

I'm not sure what to say.  I feel slightly in shock.  Rob was neither
in my must-read list, nor was he someone whose postings I found
distasteful; he was, altogether, among the few motssers who I thought
to embody soc.motss.  While often I found his posts to be over my
head, there were a few that clicked for me with such precision that
they resonate with me still.  Whenever I mentioned that to him, he
seemed tickled pink.  Rest in peace, Rob, even if you _were_ born in
Long Island.


-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:01:05 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <l8uhvmINNlu1@mizar.usc.edu>,
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

[ to jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer): ]
> 
> How sweet of you.  But then what would *you* know about being
> disatisfied with one's voice, Silver Tonsils?  <Bats eyelashes> 

Nearly everyone's dissatisfied with the voice they hear on
recordings.  That's because the voice they *think* they have
they usually hear through about two inches of head. 

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Subject: Re: sexual attraction and paraphilias
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:41:30 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <1992Aug16.203820.13957@unlinfo.unl.edu> cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:
>>>what's an expert?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Good Grief.

>do you not understand what I'm saying? I'm challenging the notion that
>anyone is an "expert" at understanding sexual attraction.

That's just the problem, I understand it all too well.

>>>I have little control over who I find attractive.
>>I believe that it is just this little control over whom, or what, one
>>finds attractive that the psychologists throw into the paraphilia bin.

>then I certainly have a diverse set of paraphilias. Haven't I posted
>something recently describing all of the various people I find
>sexually attractive? I really don't see any nifty little classification 
>scheme for my various attractions. The only thing I've consistently
>required is for the other person to be intellectually engaging.

>ObDish: What's there in common between Sim Aberson and Robert Coren?

>ObBitch: Colburn, your posts would be a lot more interesting if you
>wrote more than you quoted.
>-- 

And yours, if you thought more than you wrote.


Colburn Eigen                     H|u> = E|u>
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Oscar Wilde and Green Carnations
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:03:07 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <carnatial@vadier.gr.osf.org>,
emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
> Roger Phillips writes, quoting Neil Bartlett:

[I was worried that it might appear I was trying to plagiarise him.]

> >        [Robert Hichens, _The Green Carnation_, R.  Smythe,
> >        London 1894.  Lady Bracknell, ransacking the library
> >        in the final scene of _The Importance of Being
> >        Earnest_ for a clue as to Ernest's true identity ...
                                                            ^^^
> >        finds a copy of Hichens's book.  "This treatise, `The
> >        Green Carnation', as I see it is called, seems to be
> >        a book about the culture of exotics."
> 
> I don't recall ever seeing this in any version of the play

I neither.
But what I omitted at the ellipsis was the reference "(WILDE, p. 383)",
where WILDE is an abbreviation for
_The Complete Works of Oscar Wilde_, Collins, London and Glasgow 1966.

So if anyone can find a copy of that book, let's see page 383.
[Or is this a hoax by Neil Bartlett?]

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"Pooter, n. a petit bourgeois, conventional and unimaginative."
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What the phobes really want
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:21:10 GMT
	<ROBERTL.92Aug17213922@luciano.Stanford.EDU> <#c0msqm.jfh@netcom.com>
	<1992Aug18.144720.5959@spdcc.com>
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com
In-reply-to: rdonahue@spdcc.com's message of 18 Aug 92 14:47:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.144720.5959@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:



   In article <#c0msqm.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
   >In article <ROBERTL.92Aug17213922@luciano.Stanford.EDU> 
   >robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) writes:

   >>And you delude yourself if you think that question is rhetorical,
   >>since our enemies don't hate us for how we act.  They hate us for what
   >>we are, and they will never be satisfied until we are ALL gone.

	   Yup.

	   This is one of the good/bad thing about the radical homophobes.

	   It's good in a way beecause I believe that they can't make
   us go away.  Not all of us.  Not unless they stop breeding us.
   And that isn't likely to happen unless at some point they declare
   abortion not as heinous as homosexuality.  so like it or not, we
   are here, we are queer, and we'renot leaving the planet.

	   What DO the phobes want?   


[lots of eloquent material deleted.....]

	   You know... if they were all dead, the problem might go away.

	   And that of course is the only logical conclusion that
   can come from this sort of bigotry.  It might take a while before
   it would get to this, but it is the only final solution.

	   Not that we haven't been there before.  (And of course
   most people aren't even aware of that since it gets removed from
   most/all Holocaust historical material... but that's all part of 
   the plan you see.)

   BBC


And, so long as the argument gets trivialized as a support for "family
values," those that don't want us to be, gain the support of people who
would let us exist AND be willing to see us have some [if not all] rights.  

Until the logical consequences of this form of bigotry is exposed, as BBC
does above, it will be possible to marginalize [willie hortonize?] us or
any other minority.  Once marginalized, it is easy to withdraw and withhold
rights without the "center" protesting.  

I did not believe I would live to see such a direct, public assault.  How
foolish I was.  There are problems in this country.  Someone has to bear
the blame.  As another poster in this group said, and I paraphrase, Bush
would be very willing to turn on the gas.

jim taylor      jpt@think.com