HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Mutimedia?? 
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:11:28 GMT

dmkasten@redorc.chi.il.us (Bowie Poag) writes:
                           ^^^^^^^^^^
Seriously?  Are you the same Bowie Poag that was on a while back?

>Everyone knows that choosing an IBM (Regardless of wether youre running OS/2,
>Windows, or DOS) is the absolute WORST choice of platforms to develop
>multimedia on, simply because its architecture is so weak and slow..

While I agree that it is not the ideal platform for multimedia, the size
of the market makes it very attractive.  There are some very nice software
and hardware for the Clones which may never appear for the Amiga, and the
situation doesn't appear to be getting much better.  I am helping to setup
and configure a multimedia Clone system that costs about half of what a
comparable Amiga setup would...  :-(

Granted, it does lack some of the Amiga's niceties, but it does have a few
things like CDROM support, sound input, and several applications which the
Amiga lacks.

>Hell, even Byte magazine admits the PC is the worst platform for multimedia.
>Guess which one they chose as the best? :)

The Macintosh?  :-)

>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>|                I think, therefore I Amiga.                |
>+-----------------------------------------------------------+
>| Douglas Michael Kasten (DMK) | Amiga 2000HD/5 with a tiny |
>|  dmkasten@redorc.chi.il.us   | little 21" Toshiba monitor.|
>+------------------------------+----------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:14:09 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

g2z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Ron Siemens) writes:

>Although my quoted text of what you said may be misleading, I'm not
>referring to the distinction between compiled code and hand-coded assembly
>as you have assumed.  Rather the distinction between OS supplied virtual
>memory or programmer-supplied virtual memory.  You advocate the programmer-
>supplied method.  Putting this burdon on the programmer is non-sense, when
>the OS could do it efficiently and seemlessly.  This is analogous to the
>OS-provided multitasking the Amiga has, and the programmer-provided multi-
>tasking the Mac has.  It's just as rediculous to have the programmer
>provide VM as it is for the programmer to provide the multitasking
>support the way the Mac does. 

  That is all well and good, but I wasn't refering to, nor was I intimating
that the programmer should supply VM.  If that's how you associated a program
that was constructed with an overlay map as, then you're completely mistaken.

  And, I still stand behind my assertion that for most applications that are
run under a personal computing environment, ie. a *single* user environment,
an overlayed program is easily fabricated, if it was designed as such from the
beginning of the project.

  In that light, when compared to the OS managing memory services, a VM system
probably will not be able to match the memory utilization as efficiently since
the OS cannot "know" as much about the program is it's designers did.

  When you throw UNIX, or most any multiuser environment into the mix along 
with mega-applications, then yes, VM is most often the most pragmatic solution.

  -jack-
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:16:49 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>Actually I use a 486-50DX2 at work with 16M Ram, and running Windows 3.1 is
'>a joke... gah... the response from my stock A500 is much better.. though it
'>would be nice to have a decent screen saver for the amiga that does not take
'>up too much of my ram..

	I love these comments.  I am certainly no big fan of Windows 3.x, but
   on my 33/486 (which is slower then yours) Win-OS2 at 640x480x16 runs 
   faster then my old 1meg A500 running a 4 color low-res WB.  Even when I
   up the driver to 256 colors its still fast.  I am using the outdated 
   Diamond Speedstar Plus card also.  For the same money today, you can get
   a Diamond Speedstar 24X which provides much faster Windows support, along
   with true color. 

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

'>Ray
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: To VM or not to VM?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:25:19 GMT

das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>>On the Mac you are happy to use programs from anyone, on the Amiga C=
>>has to do it all.
>
>Well, I don't think he meant that.  He means that VM is supposed to
>be such an important part of a computer that he doesn't trust a 3rd 
>party to do it.  And I agree that running VM on a computer is more
>fundamental, say, that running a spreadsheet or whatever.

Perhaps, but many people are happily running third-party operating systems
on their PCs.  I would think the OS is a fundamental part of a computer
system.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Re: 486's are in no way upgradeable to Pentiums
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:24:15 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: cs1.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Roger Uzun (uzun@crash.cts.com) wrote:
: Some of the Amiga bashers have stated that the Intel Pentium (formerly
: 586) will be available as an upgrade to all 486 users.  This is
: not the case.  The Pentium uses a drastically different memory
: architecture, and is a much higher performance chip.  To use
: it in an existing 486 design would really hamper the performance
: of the CHIP.  
Well, they keep the ISA bus... They'll probably stick the Pentium on it,
just so they can say they're running with it, and then complain when
people tell them their machines are crippled. =)

: Many existing overdrive sockets have additonal pins for a future
: overdrive chip which will have many pentium like features, and
: will provide higher performance than existing 486's.
: Please look at the Nov 16 issue of EE times, page 121
: for a quote from Intel on future overdrive options.

: -Roger
: --------------------------------------------------------------
: bix: ruzun
: NET: uzun@crash.cts.com

--
---------------------------------------------------------
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name for email... Please send all email to zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu or
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---

Millions of lemmings can't be wrong -- throw yourself off a cliff
Remember to always be a visionary, or someone will do it for you and beat you.

The best Disney girl?  Definitely Belle (BatB)

I hate hicks and farmer boys. I hate everything they stand for, especially the
part about putting food on my table. I can do without the food. I wish all
farmers would just die. I can live off of lawn clippings.  -- Dave Tiberio

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:19:11 GMT

In <C0pAF5.8Fp@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>Too bad it doesn't work on 040s and isn't part of the operating system.

The former will get changed in the near future, the latter isn't really
a problem. Windogs isn't part of the operating system (MSDOG) either and
noone complains. It isn't even made by the computer manufacturer as hardly
any clone software is done by the manufacturer.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:52:09 GMT

In article <C0CJnH.4DL@news.iastate.edu> Marc N. Barrett whines:
>   What happens if you give a text file a project icon, enter "c:more" in
>the tooltypes for the icon, and "more" is not in the "c:" directory?  Do
>you get an "Unanble to open your tool 'c:more'" requester?  This does not
>happen on the Macintosh.

I really wanted to stay out of this, but you have brought up one of the
features of the Amiga's O.S. which is (for me) an improvement over the
Mac's way of doing things.

What happens if you have two versions of Turbo Pascal on the Mac, and load
it an a program by clicking on the project Icon. --- 9 times out of 9 you
will load the wrong version of the program.

On an Amiga Suppose one person likes the More text reader, another likes
MuchMore, yet another likes TY, etc. They can all set their systems up
appropiately.




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:07:08 GMT


Ok, I have a question.  Say we have a RISC processor, make is arbitrary,
that gets about 90 MIPS or so, but based on current avaliable tech.

Would it be possible to run 68k machine code ALONG WITH native apps
(relative to the processor)?  What I'm asking is: when you go into
"emulation mode" in a RISC processor are you locked in it, or can
you run different modes at will?

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:41:38 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Stephenson Daniel A (das9674@ucs.usl.edu) wrote:

: and I am supposedly not have fun with it on my Incredibly Boring
: Machine?

Well, how fun is it to program a PC? Not a blast I can tell you,
especially not when it comes to moving graphics...

--
=========================================================
=  Regards  =  email:              =  1280x512x262000+  = 
=  Mattias  =  matt-dah@dsv.su.se  =  I love it.        =
=========================================================
=  If we don't *buy* our programs, there soon won't be  =
=  any new software for the Amiga. Obvious, is it not?  =
=========================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:23:47 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jack Radigan (jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov) wrote:
:
:   The 3.0 release called itself an environment, the 3.1 manuals now proclaim
: it to be an operating system...
:
:   It's still bogus.
:

It's generating too much software support to be called "bogus".  It works
well and supports applications the likes of which no other system can offer.
Like it or not, most computers are used for applications, not games and
demos.

:   -jack-
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: dtiberio@src4src.linet.org (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 4 Jan 93 05:36:49 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source

In article <C0Au54.8n0@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <1993Jan3.185526.14646@samba.oit.unc.edu> John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver) writes:
>>Alas I think there is no way Commodore can compete with that.  Even
>>though Commodore clearly has a better, more powerful system, quality
>>does *not* sell computers.  Price sells computers.
>
>   You're wrong.  Software sells computers.  Price is important but secondary.
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu


	Do you know what the secret to a successful beer is? No, it isn't the
aging. No, it isn't the flavor either. It is ADVERTISING. Beer is basically
p*ss colored water. (from the movie BEER). 

	Whip out your Knorbecker!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:45:49 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Skip Sauls (skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu) wrote:
:
: It is not a DX, it is a DX2, which uses Intel's clock-doubling scam.
:

Oh yeah.  At least a 75% performance improvement with a single-chip upgrade.
What a scam.

:
: If Motorola had better marketing folks and if the people who buy the
: Motorola machines were as ignorant as those who buy Intel machines,
: the could have called the 040-25 a 50Mhz chip.
:

They did, in one of their ads.  BTW, a DX has been shown in several
benchmarks to be as fast as an 040 in integer performance, a bit faster
even.  A DX2 blows it away.

:
: The motherboard of the
: Gateway is only running at 33MHz, not the full 66MHz, and the machines
: are not much faster than the regular 33MHz models.  For some operations,
: the 50MHz DX machines are faster than the kludged 66Mhz models.
:

There's that word again, "kludge".  I guess the SGI Crimson is also a
kludge, as it's a 50MHz machine that runs at 100MHz internally.

:
: Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: I.A.Inman@newcastle.ac.uk (I.A. Inman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:47:32 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU
Originator: n08dp@tuda


Simple, get an A4000, you can get a PC emulator later!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: RISC Amiga?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:22:34 GMT


	With everyone else fleeing Motorola's 68k, does anyone know
	if commodore plans to get away from the 68k line to a new
	chipset?


-- 
      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
 ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."  
		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:38:50 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>You really should take a 'History of Computing' course, or read a book,
>or something.  Multitasking operating systems do not require gobs
>and gobs of RAM.  Guess how much ram early Unix required ?  Hell,
>I was running a multitasking operating system on a 16K PDP-8/E in
>1974 (it was multiuser, too :-) )

	hhmpf!  We ran 3 users, and only had 8K of core!  (also pdp8/e).  :-)

[Jerry whoever writes]
>>As soon as multitasking was feasible (with the advent of the 286) IBM
>>started work on OS/2, the multitasking OS for it.  The amiga was not an

	I personally wrote (and wrote applications for) a multitasking system
that sat on top of the C64, for use as the basis for the PlayNet (later
bought by QuantumLink) software.  Not only did it multitask, it also handled
horizontal screen windows (using display ints), did windowed CRC-checked
error-correcting communication over the modem, included a disk handling system
complete with huffman file compression, AND it left Basic running.  (I didn't
write all of it, but I did write quite a bit of it.)

	1 Mhz 6502's (with 64K memory) aren't as powerful as '286's...

-- 
GNU Emacs is a LISP operating system disguised as a word processor.
 - Doug Mohney, in comp.arch

Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Keywords: Neuroses lobotomies penis envy spam spam spam humbug 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:57:02 GMT

> Flipping through my AmigaWorld... 16-bit sound card, CD quality: roughly $600
>	for the SunRize product; internal modem: EXACTLY the same as PC prices
>	(remember, we have a 16-bit "IBM" slot or two also...); and video
>	upgrades?  Sheesh.. we have a veritable plethora, from DCTV to HAM-E
>	to Visiona and Opal-Vision; you makes your bets and you pays...

600.00 for 16 bit sound????

And a "plethora" of video cards?  Want to list some specs and prices,
say between $200.00 and $600.00.

> You really mean to say they have 33mHz 486 machines now for under a $1000?
>	Good quality 486s manufactured by a company that has a good solid
>	reputation and a sound production base?  Really? From who?  vortex makes
>	the 486SLC bridgeboard, and I haven't seen ANY Dell, IBM, or Compaq 
>	machines for that price...

First: the 486SLC is not a 486,it is a souped up 386.  Seems like Amiga
users are the ones that are getting sucked in by shams.  Second: There
are 486 computers from companies more reputable then "Vortex" for under
$1000.00.  Real 486.  Not souped up ones, but they have a hard drive
and a monitor...which your emulator doesn't.

> And, I might add, you failed to address the Mac capabilities - you honestly
>	cannot say that the IBM has better word-publishing or graphics
>	capabilities than the Mac (or the Amiga, for that matter...)

There is not a single high-end Macintosh (or unix, for that matter)
desktop publishing program that does not run on the PC.  We also have
all of their high end graphics programs, but Coreldraw steps all over
them, and they go crawling back to the Mac.

>
Try to think of a high-end mac DTP program that doesn't run on the PC.
Quark, Ventura, Pagemaker...we've got them all.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:36:16 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.210135.29840@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Windows programs run in Protected Mode, which uses virtual addressing.
>You thought you were overwriting DOS, but you probably overwrote something
>else.

I don't think so--it wasn't in protected mode.

>In any case, even if you don't have the source, perhaps you could describe
>the method you used to search memory for the resident DOS kernel?

Search for the first, say 150 bytes of the known image, and zero the
exact size of it out.

I'm not saying it's not possible that I zeroed the wrong thing, BUT
I'm relatively positive that I got MS-DOS and ONLY MS-DOS.  (shrug)  I
also wouldn't venture to say I got ALL of MS-DOS.  I wouldn't know
whether MS-DOS creates tables, expands, whatever.  I just know I got
the disk image, and poof.

Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:06:24 GMT

Thanks, everyone, for your information on RISC processors.  I think
I'll go get a book and find out more.  :)

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:16:37 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>:   After all, people *did* get work done in the days before MMU's, VM, MP and
>: other esoteric niceties, right?

>People also got work done before they invented computers, cars, and even
>wheels.  Are you suggesting that we should go back to those days?

  Why must everything be so monochromatic with you?  

  -jack-
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 12 Jan 1993 03:18:27 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <EMCOOP.93Jan11123448@bcars148.bnr.ca> emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith) writes:
>good for in that regard :-)  i'd like to know how it is that the Amiga OS
>seems to take so little memory, and others so much.  Is there a lot in ROM?

We've got a 512k rom which holds all of the ESSENTIAL stuff for a
fully usable cli-based system, including exec, graphics, intuition,
etc...

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.programmer