HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: OA Abstinence, is measuring your food compulsive?
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:55:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.2355
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

When I first came into program last summer, this was a big issue for me.  I'd
spent years trying to "diet" unsuccessfully; every morning I'd start out with
a more or less nutritionally sound plan for what I was going to eat during the 
day.  But I'm slightly hypoglycemic, and I have a frustrating tendency to get
extremely hungry all of a sudden.  Whenever this happened, I had to eat something
to get my blood sugar back up.  But then I always felt like I had blown the diet,
so why not binge for the rest of the day and start over tomorrow?  Of course I
never lost any weight this way - rather, I was slowly gaining.

When I came into program, the first thing I had to do was to stop being so hard
on myself.  There's nothing wrong with eating a small snack if I'm legitimately
hungry; the problem was the "guilt binges" which always follwed.  So I started
out with a "kinder, gentler" abstinence.  My only absolute is that I don't eat
sugar, becaue I know I have a real physical addiction to it.  I write down
what I eat to keep myself honest about it, but planning it out rigidly in 
advance feels too much like my old dieting patterns that I always used to beat
myself up with.  It look me awhile to learn how to be gentle with myself and
to forgive myself for not sticking to the "perfect" diet, but the ultimate
result has been a feeling of freedom, of being nicer to myself - and believe
it or not, gradual weight loss!

I'm fortunate to be in an area where the prevailing feeling is that each person
defines their own abstinence in whatever way works best for them.  I think I'd
find it very disheartening to be in an area with mostly HOW meetings, simply
because my own physical needs prevent me from following a three-meal-a-day
plan, and the few HOW meetings I've been to in other areas left me feeling
something of a second-class citizen because of this.

Just *my* experience, of course - I know several people who need more rigidity
with their food plans than I do!

				-Jeanne

-- 
   ***********************************************************************

Jeanne Nielsen
nielsen@math.duke.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: maxwell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Story)
Subject: help?
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 22:31:20 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Keywords: sponsor followup
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:30:18 GMT

joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) writes:

<stuff deleted>


>Recovery from what? Sexual abuse is not recover from an addiction. 
>You know I read many of the books you have mentioned and tons of other self
>help books when I was still using. I thought that I could find my answers
>in those books but guess what I continued to use and use and use. Nothing
>helped me until I came to AA. Know with a clear mind  I can read these books
>again and maybe get somthing out of them. I too have found out in the last
>year that I was sexually abused as a child.  I feel for you having to go
>through it alone. I have a support group of people around me. Many who have
>gone through the same things that I have gone through. Before I  came to AA
>I thought that I could do everything by myself that only weak people ask for
>help. I now find that it is the opposite I am a stronger individual if I
>ask for help.  The only way that I can learn to my fullest ability is to
>ask people to show me how they did it.


>Joni


Uhhh, what ^_she_ said ! 8-)

But seriously, folks, one of the worst verbal wierdies of our time is 
the reference to *A as 'self help' groups.

If it was self-help, we wouldn't need step 2 8-)

love and service,,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: tbachman@hamline.edu (Toni Bachman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Keywords: sponsor followup
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:12:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: uc.1992Apr17.001213.16505
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, MN.

In article <1992Apr16.122020.27951@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Steve Salter <ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap) remarks:
>
>>In article <crystal.703126214@glia> crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal) writes:
>>>I am one of those who used "self will" in my recovery.
>>>I did NOT use professional help.
>>>I can't stand the 12-step religions.
>>
>>A 12 step program is not a religion and if you had any experience in one
>>you would know that. SO don't condem anything that you don't know about!!
>
>Perhaps crystal does feel as if 12 step programs are "religions". You
>(and I) don't consider them to be religions but that does not make her
>opinion invalid.
>
>
>>Recovery from what? Sexual abuse is not recover from an addiction. 
>
>Oh, I dunno, it CAN be...personally, I try to stay away from blanket
>statements like that, Joni.
>
>>in those books but guess what I continued to use and use and use. Nothing
>>helped me until I came to AA. Know with a clear mind  I can read these books
>>again and maybe get somthing out of them. I too have found out in the last
>>year that I was sexually abused as a child.  I feel for you having to go
>>through it alone. I have a support group of people around me. Many who have
>
>Different strokes for different folks...hmmmm, did crystal say she
>went through it "alone"? I thought she just mentioned she didn't do
>any professional treatments or 12 stepping.
>
>>help. I now find that it is the opposite I am a stronger individual if I
>>ask for help.  The only way that I can learn to my fullest ability is to
>>ask people to show me how they did it.
>
>Through surrender lies the ultimate strength. 
>
>Steve

12-Step groups have been called a religion - I think people need to realize
that rather than "Religious" they are spiritual.  There is a big difference
between being spiritual and being religious.

For instance - some 12-steppers use their groups as God - others use God.
Now if this is a religion - why doesn't everyone use God??

I find in my program that my higher power changes throughout the year - this
is not religion - it is spirituality and thank G** for IT!!

Toni
From: freud@pilot.njin.net (Robert Freud)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Can't Take It
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:02:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

s
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: cowpatti@netcom.com (Patricia Mae Anthony)
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:53:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr12.122509.6808@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Salter) writes:
>moy@acf5.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy) relates:
>
>>	My sponsor fired me last evening. I am coming up on seven years
>>clean and sober, and she fired me because "she can't sponsor someone who doesn'tgot to meetings". I do go to meetings, but not all the time, or not according
>>to the way she goes to meetings. I currently work six days a week, go to
>
>	First mistake...not cowtowing to every whim of your sponsor.
>:) Sponsoring is great but it can be a power trip also. There is a
>fine line between giving advice or lending a ear or being an objective
>observer and falling into a control situation.
>
My gut feeling is that she was feeling uncomfortable about *something*
and it may or may not have been your attendance.  For me, if she
honestly felt that she wasn't comfortable with your attendance, she
might have talked with you and reached a decision together with you in
regard to finding a new sponsor, if it wasn't possible to resolve any
uncomfortable feelings.  The idea of "getting fired" makes me feel like
something was held back and/or maybe blamed on you, when it might have
been something about herself that wsa coming up around attendance.  It
seems honest to me for someone to say "I am having a problem within
myself about attendance, and I feel like I need to take care ofthat, and
that it might be wiser for you to have another sponsor for the time
being."  But to "fire" you because she is not in agreement suggests to
me that some kind o f"blame" is going on in order to avoid or out of
fear of her own conflicts.

Patricia
-- 

@>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,-->  @>-`,--> @>-`,-->
          >_,<   Cuando te acuerdes de mi, hechate una copa a mi salud. 
          (oo)   Porque donde quiera que estes, vas a cabar llorando mares.
  ,-------(._.)  Porque no vas a negar, que me llevas muy adentro.
 / |     ||      Y aunque lo quieras a no, sigo siendo tu tormento.
*  ||W--'||      Que le vas a hacer, Corazon?  Que le vas a hacer, Corazon? 
   ~~    ~~      Si te estas muriendo por mi amor?  [Cuco Sanchez]
<--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`, <@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@  <--`,-<@

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: diana@swsrv1.cirr.com (Diana Sparks)
Subject: Re: Freedom from bondage
Organization: Software Services; Garland, Tx
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:38:38 GMT

Wonderful story, Alex.  

				Thank You! 
	for sharing it with us, and with me! I'll take it the 
way it was given, with love!

peace,

diana

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  ******* Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly. ******
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jane of all trades: computer consultant, tech writer, illustrator.     |
From: ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous p 1
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:34:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdcsc.9204072134.AA12753

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This book (Big Book, second edition) is in the public domain.
=============================
page 1

	Chapter 1
	
	BILL'S STORY
	
WAR FEVER ran high in the New England town to which we new, young
officers from Plattsburg were assigned, and we were flattered when the
first citizens took us to their homes, making us feel heroic. Here was
love, applause, war; moments sublime with intervals hilarious. I was
part of life at last, and in the midst of the excitement I discovered
liquor. I forgot the strong warnings and the prejudices of my people
concerning drink. In time we sailed for "Over There." I was very lonely
and again turned to alcohol.

We landed in England. I visited Winchester Cathedral. Much moved, I
wandered outside. My attention was caught by a doggerel on an old
tombstone:

	"Here lies a Hampshire Grenadeir
	Who caught his death
	Drinking cold small beer.
	A good soldier is ne'er forgot
	Whether he dieth by musket
		Or by pot."
		
Ominous warning - which I failed to heed.

Twenty-two, and a veteran of foreign wars, I went home at last. I
fancied myself a leader, for had not the men of my battery given me a
special token of appreciation? My talent for leadership, I imagined,
would place me at the head of vast enterprises which I would manage
with the utmost assurance.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt)
Subject: Re: Flakiness...
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:22:35 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Doesnt matter one bit who is "right" or "wrong" here. Its an issue of
tolerance level......and Chris doesn't have it. 

It sounds like the "marginal utility" of this relationship < 0.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      		   	Herbert R Schmitt 
      Convex Computer Corp; 3000 Waterview Pkwy; Richardson, Tx. 75080
                      (214)-497-4845; (214)-497-4500 FAX
                        e-mail: schmitt@convex.com
                    "Battery chargers are re-volting"!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:49:56 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind But you
>seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going on.  Why do you
>not have a sponsor?  Do you really believe you can do it on your own?

If there exists someone without a sponsor and that person succeeds not only
in staying on the program but in being happy, then a sponsor is not
absolutely required for everyone.

So what?

How does that harm anyone who feels threatened by this knowledge?
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: diana@swsrv1.cirr.com (Diana Sparks)
Subject: Re: RULES....
Organization: Software Services; Garland, Tx
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 03:39:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.164050.18822@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Susan.E.Cox@dartmouth.edu (Susan E. Cox) writes:
>I have been recently reading about getting in touch with the
>subconcious mind.
>The theory is that the subconcious mind understands goals and so you
>have to give it firm rules to follow and it will achieve the goals you
>want-sort of like programming a computer. 
[stuff deleted]
>I guess I'm getting off track here- I think there is some validity to
>breaking the patterns of addiction within the brain cell. 
>{deleted} ..Anyway possibly the rules of the program help the brain take them
>in.Like boundaries for the brain cells. 
>It must be Monday. Just for today,I will give thanks that I am in
>recovery.Serenity.Suz

Actually, the 'oldtimers' in AA seemed to know this. I have been told 
stories about how members of the first 100 sober drunks were 'strongly 
encouraged' (made to!) do all physical tasks differently--put on the 
left sock and shoe first instead of the right, shave (yes!!) with the 
other hand (whichever they didn't use), etc.  It was one of Dr. Silkworth's 
ideas, I believe.  Maybe they had something there, huh?  There was 
a friend of mine who would have been sober 45 years this year if he 
had lived, and he was told to do all that stuff.

Just a little bit of history......

peace!
diana

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  ******* Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly. ******
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jane of all trades: computer consultant, tech writer, illustrator.     | 
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: A Hug for Starshine
Summary: just what I said...
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:47:06 GMT

Hey Starshine-

I was doing my run last night, and for some reason it occurred to me
that you might need a hug....

here it is. )hug(

Love and service,

jim p.


-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: diana@swsrv1.cirr.com (Diana Sparks)
Subject: Re: help?
Organization: Software Services; Garland, Tx
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:46:01 GMT

Mark, I have tried to send you mail, but it has gone into the 
black-hole-bit-bucket, and your posts aren't working either....


Not ignoring you,

diana

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  ******* Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly. ******
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jane of all trades: computer consultant, tech writer, illustrator.     | 
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:34:57 GMT

ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>>on 
>>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

>Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
>That's the only mind I have access to.
>And I am not opposed to self-will either.
>Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
>I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
>get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
>have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
>I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
>involves those things, I'm not in the least bit interested.

>-Karen


Whelp, here we are again!

I love it. It always comes down to 

1. I know what is best for me
	vs.
2. I don't know what is best for me.

One of these is psychological. The other one is spiritual.

To the original poster:

Imagine! The nerve of your sponsor, telling you to go to meetings 8-)
Well, I have done the same thing. 'If you want what we have and are 
willing to go to any lengths to get it, then you are ready to take
certain steps.'

If you don't want what we have, and you aren't willing to go to the 
lengths we go to to get it, then try it your own way. The 'therapy
too' crowd and the 'I love myself first' crowd will give you plenty of
support in that attempt. But to say 'find your own way' and to say
'in Alcoholics Anonymous' is to produce an oxymoron (that means a moron
without enough oxygen 8-). Alcoholics Anonymous has a program of recovery.
In the 12&12, in the Third Step, it says that, at least as far as 
drinking is concerned, we turn our will and our lives over to AA.

But never mind. If you could hear yourself, you might think about how
many times 'grad school and work' are great reasons to miss meetings--

--and famous last words.

'Where, then, are the other nine?'

love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Subject: Re: DRINK NOW!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: bl
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:46:07 GMT



Yes, Virginia, there is recovery.

And there is recovery from all manner of things that make your life
something other than what you want it to be.

Mary Otto
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RULES....
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:17:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr8.033914.10347@swsrv1.cirr.com> diana@swsrv1.cirr.com (Diana Sparks) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.164050.18822@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Susan.E.Cox@dartmouth.edu (Susan E. Cox) writes:
>>I have been recently reading about getting in touch with the
>>subconcious mind.
>>The theory is that the subconcious mind understands goals and so you
>>have to give it firm rules to follow and it will achieve the goals you
>>want-sort of like programming a computer. 
>[stuff deleted]
>>I guess I'm getting off track here- I think there is some validity to
>>breaking the patterns of addiction within the brain cell. 
>>{deleted} ..Anyway possibly the rules of the program help the brain take them
>>in.Like boundaries for the brain cells. 
>>It must be Monday. Just for today,I will give thanks that I am in
>>recovery.Serenity.Suz
>
>Actually, the 'oldtimers' in AA seemed to know this. I have been told 
>stories about how members of the first 100 sober drunks were 'strongly 
>encouraged' (made to!) do all physical tasks differently--put on the 
>left sock and shoe first instead of the right, shave (yes!!) with the 
>other hand (whichever they didn't use), etc.  It was one of Dr. Silkworth's 
>ideas, I believe.  Maybe they had something there, huh?  There was 
>a friend of mine who would have been sober 45 years this year if he 
>had lived, and he was told to do all that stuff.
>
>Just a little bit of history......
>
>peace!
>diana
>

History? I know of sponsors that suggets that their pigeons do stuff like that.
I know for me that It is hard to change old habits. It seems like a good
idea to start a newcommer off that is reluctant to change by doing somthing
as simple as changing the way they put there shoes on.


Speaking of history, does anyone know where the term pigeon came from when
discribing a new sponsee. 


Come on Jim I bet you know this one. :) :)

Joni :) :)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt)
Subject: prayer and meditation
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:42:48 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I have gotten some insights into my conscious contact and prayer/meditation
work since I have a little more 'time' in the program. Please remember that
these are MY insights from MY program....maybe they can help someone out
there. I realize that this has the capacity to become a highly
controversial issue, but I do not wish to engage in any controvery.....

1. Prayer and meditation frees me from ME and MY directives.  

2. To me, a prayer is NOT a specific request but rather a
   'general request' for guidance, direction, and awareness.
   By generally requesting guidance, I get myself out of a managerial 
   mode in which I pretend to have all the answers, indeed, I may not
   even have all of the questions! 

3. The act of praying acknowledges and reinforces my relationship with my
   higher power. This again helps me keep perspective about my relationship
   to the whole process of life, and of my relative importance in the great
   scheme of things.

4. I have a concept of my higher power which is unique (i think) to me but
   I have no preconceived idea of the communiucation mechanism my higher
   power uses. What I DO know is that by putting myself in the proper state
   of mind and spirit, and by becoming willing to accept answers from
   sources outside myself, directions come to me which I am totally 
   incapable of providing to myself without such preparation.
    
Herb


Newsgroups: alt.recovery