HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:54:16 EST
From:         Ann Green <USERTFSH@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      tech prep

Bill, Jackson county is becoming very involved in tech prep.  Most of the
high schools have signed on, so to speak, and the community college and the
Intermediate School District have partnered to advance the cause.  This has
sounded very good and I trust our admin who's pressing this, so I'd like to
hear about the conflicts you're encountering.  My sense was that this was
a K-12 initiative that would feed into the higher ed system (although
probably more at a community college than at a university).  Ann/JCC
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:58:00 CST
From:         "brown, lady" <ykflb@TTACS1.TTU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Politically grumpy

Bill, couldn't help teasing you a bit.  I'm glad to hear you
voted for Clinton.  Lubbock is TERRIBLY CONSERVATIVE--67% or so
voted for Bush, and all my Republican friends are forecasting
great peril for the nation.  Thank goodness I take the NEW
REPUBLIC and THE NEW YORKER (mainly for the cartoons and
movie/book reviews); otherwise, I too would probably think George
Bush is probably St. Peter to Reagan's God.

Are you from the South, then, if you voted for Clinton three
times?  I must admit I'm a bit chauvenistic about the South and
Texas, of course.

By the way, is it absolutely too late to submit a proposal for
Computers and Writing Conference?  I went to SCMLA last weekend
and came back to a mountain-load of stuff.  I'm embarrassed to ask,
but thought I would anyway.

Thanks,

Lady Falls Brown
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:39:44 MST
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Dr. Seuss

From: David E. Schwalm
Can't give you a title, but check out the work of Ruth MacDonald who has done
quite a bit of work on Seuss.

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
From: BURKE@MC.BITNET (Doyle Burke)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Foreign Language Instruction
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:53:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-L@ttuvm1"

Don Langham asked about computer use in foreign language
instruction.

At Mesa Community College, students are corresponding with
French, Spanish, and German students using Internet.

Paul Privatier of Arizona State University worked with foreign
language faculty to set up the exchanges.   I believe he
contacted professors at European universities and arranged for
students to send messages to one another.

If you want more information, you might send a message to the
foreign language department chair, Elias Esquer, at this bitnet address:

Esquer@MC.

I will forward your enquiry to Elias.
Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College (AZ)
Burke@MC
From: BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: RE: query
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:52:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET"

Look at Susanna Moodie's memoir _Roughing It in the Bush_, about life
on the frontier in Canada.
John B
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:58:43 EST
From:         "Alicia Conklin, CCNY" <ALCCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Clinton/Gore

On Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:30:00 Judith said:

>                 I have come to adore Bill Clinton, not just because he
>is a not-Bush but because he is actually intelligent (a nice change,) and
>has an intelligent wife

Amen to that!  Intelligence in the WH and a secure, savvy First Lady who doesn'
feel she has to hide her brains beneath a grandmotherly or Barbie-like
exterior.  Fifty years ago we weren't ready for Eleanor, and not so long ago
we put down Rosalind--I wonder if the American people are grown up enough yet
to welcome a thinking, talking, thought-provoking woman in this "Year of the
Woman"?  I think it will be great to have a President who really likes and
respects strong women.  (And I'm probably only a bit influenced by the fact
that Hillary left Wellesley the term before I started.)    --Alicia Conklin
From: SSELBER@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU (Stuart Selber)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Multimedia and hypermedia
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:41:28 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     Resent-From: Stuart Selber <SSELBER@MTUS5.cts.mtu.edu>
Comments:     Originally-From: "(Gary Beason)"
              <bubba%MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
              MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
              92 4:44 pm

Gary Beason writes:
I wonder to what extent multimedia will challenge even more openly
deductive or inductive reasoning.  This is a generation that has grown
up getting information and codes through television.  The associative
persuasion of television could emulated in multimedia documents.

I think Gary has an interesting point here and one I've been thinking about for
a while. At risk of being reductive, deductive claims generally use
propositional logic to create syllogisms and enthymemes and depend on a
reader's willingness to work through major and minor premises toward
conclusions.  This process may depend on a somewhat linear reading of discourse
If non-linear reading is encouraged--especially in constructive (Joyce) models
where users can create multiple points of entry and exit--deductive logic may
becoming limiting for building and sustaining arguments in hypertext.

I think induction (I'm thinking argument by example here) may be an interesting
concept to explore, given the various media, perspectives, and experiences that
potentially constitute a given hypertext.

Stuart Selber
Michigan Tech
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X400-Trace: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; arrival Wed,
            11 Nov 92 12:52:10 -0500 action Relayed
P1-Message-ID: US*UMASSMAIL*UMASS; 921111122316270-MTASATURN
UA-Content-ID: 921111122316270-
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:52:10 -0500
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Non-traditional students

This thread on non-trads/remedial/basic writing/curricula reform/ethics points
me back to some of the work on the histories of English departments and writing
instruction (Berlin, Ohmann, Wirth, Parker for example).  The changes in our
student populations seem to me to be as dramatic as those at the turn of the
century and after WWII--in some ways more dramatic given that, according to one
colleague, so called minority populations will make up a majority of the country
soon (sorry no specifics to back that up, consider it anecdotal).  Given all
that, we really need to look at the missions we define for ourselves as
institutions and teachers.  We need more people like David Schwalm moving
into administrative roles, we need more reminders like Bill Wresch's about
the ethics of sending mixed messages, and we need more recognitions like
Robert Royar's about the complexity of the problem--its institutionediness (how'
that for an ugly word).  And we need the kind of testimony Nancy makes about
the limits of what we can do, about the unfairness of making composition teacher
s, often enough adjuncts and T.A.s responsible for shepherding at risk/non-trads
/first generation college students through the academic jungle.
     But so much of the process of redefinition seems to occur adhoc and
with less of an eye to the future and more with one committed to
perserving the past.  So who controls the writing program, which department
gets stuck with the basic courses, which kinds of learning are worth giving
students credit for learning become more about preserving old definitions
than about conceiving new ones.  Irv's idea of conceiving of a college as
a place rather than a level is the kind of new perception needed; it radically
redefines what we are and where we might go.
    I've known lots of professors who would call a student on the phone if they
missed class, but only if they liked that student, only if it were one of their
better students.  They'd go the extra distance, so called, for one they think
deserved their attention, usually one poised to succeed, to reaffirm what the
professor values.  A second general principle should be to try to afford to
the least ready what we lavish on the most successful.  A lot of us
do it, as Nancy I think remarked, with this technology.  Computers are perceived
as special machines still, they require funding to get and upkeep, special tr
training for teachers and lab aides.  Putting those resources in the hands of
our most at risk students, making what is best or leading (or perceived to be)
available to them is a step as well.
    But to a large degree, that practice seems to be an institutional behavioral
anomaly rather than a principle.

nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:15:00 CST
From:         ROSE NORMAN <UAHRXN01@ASNUAH.ASN.NET>
Subject:      Writing Pedagogy Book List

}ooks for EHT 601  Writing Pedagogy

Course Description: Research and analysis of approaches to the
teaching of writing.  Students will choose one of three tracks
for library and field research.   Field research will include
attending at least five class meetings of an undergraduate class
in the selected track.

***General Books on Writing Instruction* (required of all students)

Bullock, Richard, and John Trimbur. *The Politics of Writing
   Instruction, Post-Secondary*  Boynton/Cook.   ISBN 0-86709-272-6


Murphy, James.  *A Short History of Writing Instruction*
   Hermagoras Press.  ISBN 0-9611800-6-4

***On Technical Writing Instruction* (required TW track students)

Stevenson, Dwight, et al. ed.  *Courses, Components, and Exercises in Technical
    Communication*.  Urbana, IL: NCTE, 1981.

Cunningham, Donald H., and Herman A. Estrin, eds. *The Teaching of Technical
   Writing*. Urbana, IL: NCTE, 1975.


***On Business Writing Instruction* (required BW track students)

Golen, Steven P., ed.  *Methods of Teaching Selected Topics in Business
   Communication*.  Urbana, IL:  Association for Business
   Communication, 1986.  In print?

Douglas, George H., ed. *The Teaching of Business Communication*.
   I have the 1978 edition, but there is a 1987 edition. In print?

Douglas, George W. and Herbert W. Hildebrandt, eds. *Studies
   in the History of Business Writing*. ABC 1985. Still in print?
   ISBN 0-931874-16-5

Halpern, Jeanne.  *Teaching Business Writing:  Approaches,
  Plans, Pedagogy, Research*.  Urbana, IL: American Business
  Communication Association, 1983.  (Out of print, but was
  available in offprint from Director of Business Communication,
  Dept. of English, Purdue University.)



***Special Topics in Composition* (required of all Comp Track students)
   Includes Remedial (EH 003), Freshman Comp. (EH 101 or 102),
and Computers & Writing Instruction (attend selected sections of
101/102 and any 300 or 301 class).

Halpern, Jeanne W., and Sarah Liggett.  *Computers & Composing*.
   SIU Press, 1984. ISBN 0-8093-1146-1

Hill, Carolyn Ericksen.  *Writing from the Margins: Power and
Pedagogy for Teachers of Composition. New York: Oxford
University Press, 1990.

Langer, Judith A. and Arthur N. Applebee.  *How Writing Shapes  and Learning*.
 NCTE 1987.
   ISBN 0-8141-2180-2

North, Stephen.  *The Making of Knowledge in Composition*
   Boynton/Cook.  ISBN 0-86709-151-7












 SNAPSHOT      3 ANSI     3 FDX 3  1200 N81 3 LOG CLOSED 3 PRINT ON  3 ON-LINE
From: LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: ncte 93 & cccc 94?
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:41:35 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"MBU-L%TTUVM1.BITNET@vaxf.Colorado.EDU"
X-VMS-Cc: LHAMPLYONS
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I'm becoming confused.  I've read messages saying CCCC 94 will be in Atlanta--wa
   sn't that 92?
and others saying it will be in Pittsburgh, which indeed it may.  But the latest
I've read says it'll be in Nashville in 93.  Am I losing my mind?  Isn't
CCCC 93 in San Diego?  Somebody help me out here!!
Liz H-L
Organization: Samford University Writing Programs
X-Acknowledge-To: <DHROBERT@SAMFORD>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:46:26 CST
From:         "David H. Roberts" <DHROBERT@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lurkers or Wallflowers?
              10 Nov 1992 17:36:26 -0500 from <WALTERSAM@WCUVAX1>

On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:36:26 -0500 Angela Murphy-Walters said:
>     Michael S. Hart posted a suggestion that "wallflowers" be used in
>place of "lurkers."

Hart has a habit of defining everthing to suit him; personally, I prefer
"voyeur."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"MBU-L@TTUVM1.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:08:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Clinton/Gore

I too am increasingly delighted with Bill Clinton. I was impressed with
his ability to weigh the strengths of opposing points of view in the
second debate, with his refusal to take the iraq-gate bait he was handed
in that debate (although he could have really made something of it--it
was his interest in answering the questioner's question rather than the
moderator's which struck me), and with his willingness to disagree with
voters who ask him questions. I see in him a reflective intelligence
which reminds me a little of Carter, who has always rated highly with me.
John B
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:45:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Yesterday's shutdown of mbu

When MBU reaches its daily limit of 50 messages is locks and
waits for me to free it.  I was out of town and wasn't able to do
that until I returned late last night.  Sorry for the busted IRC,
Eric.  Fred Kemp, TTU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:33:52 CST
Comments:     <Parser> E: RFC822 "local part" (username) containing a blank was
              encountered. These usernames are not presently supported.
From:         Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@TTUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in
              06 Nov 92 09:07:00 -0600. <9211061512.AA28253@po-1.iastate.edu>

John Slatin says, "More and more, the students who graduate from our
institutions will be entering environments, information environments,
consisting of complex webs of information linked to other webs of information;
and they will be expected to negotiate those webs and to construct them."
	Isn't that what we've always required of our students?  This
discussion of hypertext seems to underscore the notion that hypertext is
in many ways no different from what we have always written; the only real
difference seems to be in its self-conscious approach to the construction,
deconstruction, and reconstruction of webs of knowledge created through
written discourse.  Increased self-consciousness might be, in itself,
a useful and enlightening thing for our students.  But it does not seem to
justify a label of "new form of writing" for this particular technology.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:27:09 -0500
From:         Marcia Halio-Peoples <mhalio@BRAHMS.UDEL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Foreign languages?

Don,
Afraid I can't help you about foreign language depts. and computers,
but you might try writing to jerry culley in our foreign lang. dept.
(Delaware)His address is either gculley@brahms.udel.edu or just culley@brahms.
He's done some interesting stuff.  Regards, Marcia Halio
ui On Wed, 4 Nov 1992, Don Langham wrote:

> Sorry if this seems off the wall, but I need to know something.  Do
> any of my fellow MBUers know anything about how foreign language
> departments are incorporating computers into their instructional
> programs?  Any info, especially journal articles/book titles, will be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Meanwhile, off to the library. . . .
>
> --Don Langham
>   University of Alabama
>   DLangham@English.as.ua.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:58:36 CST
From:         "Patty Ericsson" <PATTY@SDNET.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: lurkers or wallflowers
              11 Nov 1992 17:52:00 EST from <KARCH%MUNIN%HUGIN@NORWICH>

Just an observation - as soon as the discussion of naming or renaming
lurkers came up, many lurkers changed their status and
"unlurked" themselves.  We like to be able to name (label) ourselves.

I know this phenomenon has be observed in other situations, but we have a
written record of it happening!!

I like this stuff!
Patty E.
From: SSELBER@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU (Stuart Selber)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Books on Teaching Writing
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:12:35 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     Resent-From: Stuart Selber <SSELBER@MTUS5.cts.mtu.edu>
Comments:     Originally-From: RONRON%USU.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
              MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU

Ron Writes:
Hi Rose.  Re your call for books on Tech writing et al.  At Utah State
we don't use an actual text.  Instead we base our courses around a
style guide designed fortechnical/professional people who write. In other
words, it isn't a college text. The book is the _Shipley Associates Style
Guide_, from Shipley Associates, P.O. Box 460, Bountiful, UT, 84010.
I'm not being a Utah booster when I recommend this guide.  It is one of the
standards of the industry, is available in electronic version, and serves
very well to anchor our programs.  I find that the less I use textbooks,.
the better the classes get, particularly at the graduate levels. Ron Shook

I'll second the Shipley books.  This summer I used one of their texts for
proposal writing and it was top-notch.

Stuart Selber
Michigan Tech
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:23:38 PST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@IDUI1
From:         Gordon Thomas <ENGLAB@IDUI1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: synch/asynch

Slatin (the younger) writes:

>Are we assisting at the end of the
>traditional academic essay?  Damn right we are, though there's no cause for
>celebration there (the traditional academic essay is capable of real power),
>any more than there's cause for alarm that the demise will be sudden or that
>the form will disappear anytime soon.  The print-oriented essay will be around
>for a long time to come, side by side with hypertexts and electronic
>conferences, synchronous and asynchronous.

I agree completely.  This reminds me of Walter Ong's essay "The Spoken Book"
in which he considers the effects of media transformation.  One of the points
he makes in passing is that musicians feared the demise of live concerts
when the popularity of recorded music first became obvious.  But instead
of a decreasing demand for live music, recorded music appears to have
increased that demand (of course there were a lot of other factors at
work, increased leisure time and disponsable income, that may well have
been the most important effects).  But Ong points out that during periods
of media transformation, the new medium tends to *enhance* rather than
*replace* the old, at least for a while.

In the same way, any kind of e-mail activity appears to me to result in
a net increase in the amount of oral communication that also occurs among
the participants.

Correction:  Ong's essay is "Media Transformation: The Talked Book" in
_Interfaces of the Word: Studies in the Evolution of Consciousness and
Culture_, 1977.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:52:43 CST
Comments:     Resent-From: Ellen Redding Kaler <KALER@UKANVM>
From:         Ellen Redding Kaler <KALER@UKANVM.BITNET>

Does anyone know about the availability of Forest Houlette's program,
WRITE ENVIRONMENT ?  Is Houlette on this list? (Being a relative new-
comer, how do I find out who is on the list, anyway?)  The program
won Zenith Data System's Master of Innovations competition a year or
two ago for classroom applications.  I have a write-up description, but
don't really know specifics about source, price, etc.  Has anyone used
it with students?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: BITNET::"mbu-l@ttuvm1"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:57:00 EST
From:         "Rhoda Carroll, Vermont College,
              Montpelier" <RHODA%MUNIN@NORWICH.BITNET>
Subject:      Yankee Trader Needs Info

Dear MBU:  Finally, I have a writing lab booked for one class meeting
per week for a twice-weekly Intro to Lit class.  Now I need (and will trade
for!) suggestions for ways to use the 75-minute class period. We have 18
stand-alone IBM-clone 386 pc's loaded with WordPerfect 5.1 in a room that
also has six vax terminals (the terminals are not hooked up to
the pc's).

What I need is this: specific *writing* projects that can be done
in the lab during class time, either solo or collaboratively.  I can
adapt suggestions for types of writing projects to the readings
we will actually be using; I haven't decided yet what these will be,
but normally our department uses one of those standard Intro to The Various
Genres of Literature texts (although I can select my own text -- by next week!)

I'd be grateful for concepts, actual assignments, hardware/software
suggestions, anything!  This will be my first time using the new
lab (the lab isn't networked yet; next year, though) as a routine
part of class meetings.  I don't want to waste a minute of precious
lab time.  I'm not wedded to any one pedagogical approach; I've been
teaching these courses for twenty years and I've never done them
the same way twice.  I'll try almost anything.

In return I can trade for any of the writing projects/exercises I've
cooked up for my first-year comp classes and/or for my intro-level
(the only level!) creative writing course (it includes fiction and poetry).
Some stuff I can just describe; some is on disk and can be sent via
Bitnet (no Internet gateway, sorry!).  I'm happy to let any of you use
anything of mine, with attribution, as I would use yours.  I do believe
in collaborative learning and I would be honored to tell my
students where some of our classwork originated!

If you send suggestions to me via MBU, everyone can see them.....but
tell me what you want in return.  If you want to stay off MBU,
write me directly and I will do the same for you.  Many thanks all.
Viva MBU (and the Clinton/Gore Dynamic Duo: may they deliver what they
promised!)

Rhoda Carroll
Rhoda Carroll*Vermont College of Norwich University*Rhoda@Norwich.Bitnet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU