HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edwardk@cup.portal.com (edward chungfan kwok)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: ABA membership is voluntary, right?
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:05:07 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>
>Given that I'm in my last year of law school, I'm a bit embarrassed to
>have to admit that I don't know this for sure, but I _believe_ that
>membership in the American Bar Association is voluntary, not
>mandatory, for lawyers in the United States.  Misc.legal added to this
>thread in the hopes of eliciting a definitive answer from somebody...
>

	Yes, ABA is a voluntary organization.  It is kind of like the IEEE
for lawyers.  Along that line, I don't think that the ABA's position on
abortion, regardless of whether one agrees with which side it takes, is 
a political position.  Just like the teaching of evolution/creationism 
may be an important political position for a state politician take, it is 
not a political position for the American Bological Society (or whatever 
it is called for an academic group of biologists) to take, because their 
position advances the cause of their profession and the society's charter.  The
 
ABA is an organization which is devoted to develop the legal profession and
therefore must be devoted to the development of the law, just like the 
American biological Society must be devoted to the science of
biology.  The ABA took the position it took with respect to abortion because
a majority of its members believe that choice promotes individual rights
and thus provide a more enlightened view of the law than the opposing view.
Thus, an abortion position is political for the IEEE, it is in my view, a
mandate for the ABA, whether it be pro-choice or pro-life.
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Jeff Dauber's posting on NAMBLA
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:45:49 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <11703@optilink.UUCP> manley@optilink.UUCP (Dave Manley) writes:
>In article <odbh710@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>
>>When they came for the pederasts, I turned my head, because I was not one.
>                        ^^^^^^^^^
>Don't you mean 'NAMBLA members' instead of 'pederasts'?

If you want to argue terms, I think that pederast is not the term I wanted.
I cannot remember what the term is for people who are sexually interested
in teenagers (not children).



>>3.  I absolutely positively think that sex with pre-pubescent children should
>>be punished with as much severity as the law will allow.
>
>We need to clarify your statement.  My dictionary defines pederast as
>"one that practices anal intercourse esp. with a boy".  This
>definition uses the word 'practices' not 'desires' or 'advocates'.
>This distinction is important. 

I draw the line at prepubescent children.  However, post puberty, I do not
mind (as long as it is consensual).


FWA
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Prop. 13 and California's fiscal crisis
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

Opponents to the part of Proposition 13 that limits reassessment to
when a property changes hands are basically saying the following:

    You bought your house for $100,000, but we know it now has a
    market value of $250,000, whether you choose to sell it or
    not.  Therefore you should pay taxes on the $250,000 rather
    than the $100,000.

Suppose your wife works, and earns $30,000 a year.  She gets pregnant,
and decides to quit and stay home with the child.  Now we *KNOW* that
her market value is $30,000 a year whether she chooses to earn it or
not.  So doesn't the anti-Prop 13 argument say that she should have to
pay income tax on the $30,000 that she *COULD* earn?

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM (Bob Deguc)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Willie Brown
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:28:10 GMT
Reply-To: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: holein1.corp.sun.com

In article l8jdacINNk6t@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM, bguest9@bsg9.Corp.Sun.COM (Kristian Skrinak) writes:
> Let get it together here. Recall? Talk about idoitic. How many of you 
> are actually registered to vote?

I am!

> 
> Willie Brown's ass is up for relection this September. I've only got one
> stone to cast but you can bet I'm pulling the other lever.

Well, you can only vote for/against him if you are in his district.  On
the otherhand, Wilson is a statewide official that was elected by all the
voters of California.


> 
> However, if there is a serious drive to remove the source of all California's
> fiscal problems, the anti-Christ himself, Willie Brown, I want my signature
> first on the list!

I would think that you would have to live in his district (I'm not saying that
you do or don't, just stating what I believe to be a fact).  If you don't live
in his district, you have no more right to sign a petition for his removal from
office than I do to remove Jesse Helms.  Or someone from North Dakota trying
to sign a recall on Wilson.

> 
> Willie Brown and most of the democrats are out to lunch! And it's your fault,
> either you didn't vote or you voted for the wrong person.

I heard that when this whole thing got started, Wilson's budget proposal
didn't get a single vote (I'm not sure if that was from just the Assembly or
the Senate or both) from *either* party!  If it were *strictly* the fault of
the Democrats, how come none of the Republicans voted for their own leader's
budget?  This is something I heard on the radio while I was leaving on vacation
at the end of June (since I was out of state for a while, I didn't get a 
chance to verify it in the papers etc).

> 
> A recall is admitting that you've let the problem go so far that it is
> out of control. Are you ready to admit that?

Yes, I voted for Wilson and now I'm sorry I did.


> 
> Dem - Your money,
> Rep - or your rights!

I'd think it would be easier to make more money than to get back rights that
have been taken away  :^D.

BTW, I am, by no stretch of the imagination, a Willie Brown fan.  Ever since
I heard (several years ago) that he flies 1st class because he "likes to" and
that one year they used state funds to purchase $55,000 worth of popsicles 
because "it's hot in Sacramento".
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6744 talk.politics.misc:39430
From: jdoskow@ichinen.Tymnet.COM (Jonathan Doskow)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Is the ABA liberal-biased:Abortion/Hill
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:57:36 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <63892@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>The ABA gives Anita Hill an award for telling a story that most Americans
>don't believe, and for taking a stand that most Americans think she is lying
>about. 

Perhaps the fact that lawyers are in some cases trained and experienced
in examining evidence and evaluating conflicting testimony has something
to do with it.

A while back I posted the result of a study on the American jury system
that indicated that, in rape cases, presiding judges were inclined to
convict 5 times more than juries.

I'm not saying that that indicates that juries are wrong.  But what does
the belief of the majority of people have to do with the truth of the
matter?  

Perhaps also, more ABA members have read or read summaries of "Capital
Games" which examines the confirmation hearings.  The authors quote
named sources (who, by their training should certainly understand the
meaning and consequences of slander) who state that Thomas frequented
hard-core porno theaters while a law student at Yale, that he rented
them from vidoe stores in Washington, and that, far from being shy about
talking about them, loved to "regale his friends with details of some
porn films he had seen, specifically ... joking about the then-popular
pornographic fantasy "Behind the Green Door."

I'm not sure whether or not such a pattern of behavior could be
admissible as evidence in a criminal trial, but then, Thomas was not on
trial for a crime.

>        Hillary Clinton gives a big speech. They take a position on abortion
>than can be nothing but political, and is so extremem that they believe that
>NO restrictions on abortion should be allowed.
>
Hey, sometimes lawyers think about the consequences of enforcing laws.

>How can the ABA call themselves non-partisan? How are the rest of us supposed
>to feel when we know any lawyer we hire is sworn to uphold the principles of
>political correctness?

If you do need a lawyer and feel you will get better representation by
applying a litmus test on an irrelevant issue, ask.
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Everything I know I read on USENET.

Opinions expressed are those of the author.  jdoskow@Tymnet.COM
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: A Retraction
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:24:30 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <11726@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> I referred to a posting a while back as "typical lying homosexual."
> One of my colleagues here pointed out that the lying homosexuals
> involved are a relatively small number -- unlike the number of
> homosexuals defending child molestation.
> 
> It is definitely incorrect to imply that all homosexuals, or even
> most homosexuals on USENET are liars.

Oh good, now can we get your to retract your statement that the "overwhelming
majority" of homosexuals support child molestation?

Actually that number of "lying homosexuals" is even a smaller number than
Clayton thinks, since he really did say what they claim he said.

> Now, can we discuss when the homosexual community is going to
> shun child molesters?

Why?  You've been discussing it ad nauseam for more than a year now.  Have
you anything new to add?  Is there any point in continuing that discussion
in this forum?  What relevance does it have to the various political news-
groups that this is cross-posted to?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Is the ABA liberal-biased:Abortion/Hill
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:44:44 GMT
Reply-To: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Pacific*Bell ESAC, Oakland, Ca.

In article <63892@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>The ABA gives Anita Hill an award for telling a story that most Americans
>don't believe, and for taking a stand that most Americans think she is lying
>about.

I guess you had better ring them up and remind them they are merely supposed
to adhere to the opinions of the masses when making resolutions.

>How can the ABA call themselves non-partisan? How are the rest of us supposed
>to feel when we know any lawyer we hire is sworn to uphold the principles of
>political correctness?

Sounds to me like the ABA, according to you, took the *unpopular* position,
i.e., the politically *incorrect* position.  You can't have it both ways.
(Oops, I forgot, the dreaded "politically correct" label merely means
"liberal"...)

jb

Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:990 sci.geo.geology:1813
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:32:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.142746.533@spacm1.spac.spc.com> iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen) writes:
>I have an earthquake pamphlet that says that if a power line falls on
>your car during a quake, not to worry.  You are safe in your car.
>What it doesn't say is when, if ever, you can get out of your car.
>Does anyone know?

When the power on the line is shut off.  (You'll know when the utility
crews *tell* you it's been shut off.  If you're *really* paranoid
about it--ask *them* to touch your car first . . .)

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: rlm@mcgort.COM (Robert McMillin)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Running out of the building
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:29:09 PDT
Organization: PBSR (Private Beta Site Research - Certified NetWare Engineer)

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes of non-natives'
tendencies to run outside during an earthquake as an example of

> Evolution in action.  To borrow a quote from an old climbing partner:
> "Selected against."  Selected against getting harmed by falling debris.
> "Selected against."  (Wayne was a geologist [soft rock].)
> 
> Of course, those staying inside are Selected Against staying in buildings.

Using a correlary, stupid driving genes would have surely have become
recessive by now.  Unfortunately, we have no such luck, and the world
still has a healthy population of Texans.  Texas, you will recall, is
possibly the only state in the Union that permits the operator of a
motor vehicle to hold a steering wheel in one hand while a passenger
holds his open beer.  No wonder Oklahoma state troopers hate anyone
with Texas plates.
From: rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:19:43 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Aug18.142746.533@spacm1.spac.spc.com> iccsap020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (David Cohen) writes:
>I have an earthquake pamphlet that says that if a power line falls on
>your car during a quake, not to worry.  You are safe in your car.
>What it doesn't say is when, if ever, you can get out of your car.
>Does anyone know?

One choice would be when the power is turned off by the power company.  Another
choice would be to drive out from under the wire, that is if your car is running
and there is a clear path to drive out.
The theory behind this is that the rubber tires are insulating you from
grounding the power which is why they say to stay in the car.  As soon as you
stepped out, you would be providing the path to ground the power is seeking and
you would get electrocuted.  I suppose you could even jump out of the car as
long as you aren't still touching the metal of the car when you touch ground, so
long as you don't land on the wire you are trying to avoid. :-)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Russell Hockins             |  This civilization is recyclable             |
| Innovative Interfaces, Inc. |                ( well most of it anyway )    |
|                           packet : ka6foy @ ki6yk.#nocal.ca.na.usa         |
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Nostradamus & Earthquake Prediction
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:03:58 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

>>    They should've studied Nicola Tesla's papers.  He succeeded in
>>    creating a few artificial earthquakes in lower Manhattan by
>>    smiting the ground (with a piling hammer) at it's resonant
>>    frequency.   
>
In article <51083@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>While it's true these are "earthquakes" by virtue of the fact that he is
>shaking the ground, they are not what we normally describe as earthquakes
>today.  Today, the word earthquake is associated with a specific type of source,
>which is motion along a fault.  Tesla did not accomplish that.  Shaking the
>ground with pile drivers is a pretty common source, actually.  There is
>a case where a pile driver actually did hit the natural period of a body
>of sedimentary fill on a lakeside.  The fill liquefied and ran into the
>lake, creating a major disaster.  As far as hitting the natural period
>of the granite bedrock under Manhattan - that'd be pretty tough - that granite
>is part of a continuous body of continental bedrock that makes up most
>of the crust of North America.
>
>
   Good point, what Tesla was really doing was studying resonance in
   general...using a pile driver style hammer.  However, according
   to the legend, he did indeed manage to stimulate nice resonance
   waves in lower Manhattan with hist testing...enough to crack
   windows in the Battery area some distance away.  

   Not ALL of Manhattan is so nicely underlaid with granite,
   tho...if you look at the skyline you can see the granite areas by
   the height of the buildings...the softer areas have average lower
   skylines.  

   Since I am about a Kmile from home, I can't dig up his biography
   and give the location of his lab at the time he did
   this..whether he was resonating the bedrock or fill/river bed
   area.
From: rogers@isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Interesting State Report on Loma Prieta (free)
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:45:53 GMT
Reply-To: rogers@blips.isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers)
Distribution: ca
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

In article <7736@public.BTR.COM> rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:
>
>I was at the USGS library the other day, when I came across the following
>report:
>
>	Competing Against Time
>	Report to Governor George Deukmejian
>        from
>        The Governor's Board of Inquiry
>        on the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake
>        May 1990
>
>It was so interesting, I called the Office of Planning and Research 
>Information Center at
>(916) 322-6312 to order a copy for myself.  
>
>(you're on your own with their phone system - it took me several tries and
> an operators help to get through!)
>
>It turns out that there is no charge for this 264  page document.
>(Your tax dollars at work).

	This document is no longer free.  I was told to send a $3.00
check or money order to:

	Attn: Cashier
	Governor's Office of Planning
	1400 10th St.
	Sacramento, CA 95814

and include, of course, the title of the document.

	Oh, yes.  Their voicemail system is still messed up.  I eventually
reached a State phone operator, using, I think, the sequence 010#.

					Craig Milo Rogers


Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: karn@chicago.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn)
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:50:34 GMT


During yesterday's earthquake I had a visitor in the lab from the east coast.
Two of us felt it because we were seated at lab benches with a knee against
the bench leg. Additionally I noticed an extension cord swinging slightly.
But our visitor, who was seated on an office chair, felt nothing. From his
expression he probably thought we were trying to pull his leg. I *think*
we convinced him...

Phil
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: Nostradamus & Earthquake Prediction
Summary: Experiment attributed to N. Tesla
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:00:34 GMT

In article <51083@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>As far as hitting the natural period
>of the granite bedrock under Manhattan - that'd be pretty tough - that granite
>is part of a continuous body of continental bedrock that makes up most
>of the crust of North America.

A nit: the bedrock under Manhattan, as I remember it, is
mostly Precambrian gneissic rocks with a smaller proportion
of plutonic rocks ("granite").  The bedrock is all
coherent crystalline rock, though, with seismic properties
grossly similar to granitic rocks.

As far as resonances go, it would seem that a pile driver
hitting the upper surface of a layer of sedimentary rock
or fill atop the bedrock might produce a pretty good
imitation of earthquake surface waves when its frequency
matched the two-way travel time from the top to the bottom
of the unconsolidated material and back.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@forel.stanford.edu
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Questions raised by SoCal Activity
Keywords: usgs refs, landers
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:57:41 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Originator: stgprao@xing

In article <jester.713904311@crash>, jester@crash.cts.com (Ken Bibb) writes:
> 3)  Can you give me references for the role of plate tectonics in the
>     creation of the Sierra Nevada, Owens Valley, White and Panamint ranges
>     and Death Valley?  

The Sierra Nevada granite was probably created by volcanism caused by the
Pacific plate subducting beneath North America a 100 million years ago.
However its more recent elevation is associated with volcanic heating of the
valley to the east.  This valley is the westmost valley of the Basin and Range
geologic province.  The B&R is has been pulling apart east to west the past 40
million years or so.  The overall area is elevated due to a thin hot crust
beneath it (the Ranges) and pull-apart zones have sunk a bit (the Basins).
It appears to be an incipient plate tectonic spreading ridge.  For unclear
reasons, most new spreading ridges appear to start under continental bodies.
Perhaps continents move slower than oceans relative to warm spots beneath
and are therefore subject to rifting.  Technically, the BR is not yet
classified as a plate boundary because the differential of the land on both
sides is less than five millimeters a year.

The B&R could also be what is called forearc spreading.  Subduction is
associated with convection cells on the leading edge that cause the leading
edge to pull apart, e.g. the Sea of Japan.  I use the weaker term "associated"
beacause it is not clear whether subduction causes convention cells or
vice-versa.  The problem with the B&R is subduction offshore California
ended many millions of years ago, so it is hard to explain the persistance
of a convection cell.

Note that plate tectonics is not a perfect theory, particularly where the
internal motions of continents are involved.  It explains the behavior of
oceanic crust fairly well.  Sometimes you can handwave an explaination for
some features in continents and sometimes you cant.
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Running out of the building
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:02:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <64219@cup.portal.com> <51094@seismo.CSS.GOV>

Richard... re your soapbox presentation today (which I won't bother to quote).
I agree with you 100% as I'm sure many other readers here do too. 
However those images of the collapsed new Philippine hotel are 
haunting and while you presented many theories concerning shady
gov't officials, bribery to avoid building to code and the like (and
again... I agree with those theories), I'd still like to know a bit more
factual info in this particular hotel's case. Any idea of where to
source same?

Harv
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes