HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ravi Konchigeri <mongoose@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Apple Quality is sh_t !
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A753920DB80200ED@kimball-pc-316.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:45:49 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 21:44:36 GMT

	Just thought I'd add my 2 atom's worth.  I've had my SE/30 for a little over
a year now and I haven't had a hardware problem yet (I have had ton's of
software problems, but that's due to my incessant 'Crash Field' I project). 
I've popped in SIMMs, changed the hard drive, added a Micron Xceed 30-8, and
consequently brushed that card on the back of the monitor several times.  I've
also tossed it around planes, car trunks, etc.  No problems.

	I do have one complaint about Apple hardware.  I've found that about half of
the FDHDs out there have problems.  Often you'll save a file to a disk, take
it to another computer, and the computer will say 'This disk is not formatted
for Macintosh.  Do you wish to initialize."  Then you take it back to the
original computer and it works fine.  Has anyone else had this problem?  I
consider myself lucky to have gotten one of the good drives, but many of the
computers I've worked on have finicky drives.  

Lastly:
In article <1992Dec14.191238.1120@lmt.mn.org> Chaz Larson,
ChazL@county.lmt.mn.org writes:
>Last month, pete's SE/30 had it's first failure; the internal video failed 
>completely.  He has a Micron XCeed 8-bit card installed, and the external 
>monitor continues to work fine.

Do you find the second monitor to be useful?  People ask me why I have two
monitors and I tell them that it's very handy.  For example, you can write
replies to a post on one screen, while seeing the post on the other.  I use
the 9" to stick palettes on when I'm working on graphics (like Freehand, which
has about ten million of them).  Does anyone have any interesting uses for the
second monitor?


"Why ask why?  Computers never do.  They just crash."

Ravi Konchigeri.
mongoose@leland.stanford.edu
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Mac PC Exchange vs Dos Mounter
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:57:01 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc

In article <7F8RVB5w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) wrote:
> 
> skippy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Ian Chesterton) writes:
> >   I'm interested in either "Macintosh PC Exchange" or "Dos Mounter" for
> >   a system 7.0.1 machine.  They seem to do the same type of things, ie.,
> >   both will mount DOS disks like Mac disks on the desktop.  However, 
> >   the "Mac PC Exchange" comes in at $10 less.  Is it worth it to spend
> >   more on "Dos Mounter"?  Inquiring (and buying) minds want to know!
> 
> Also, how much memory do the two products *actually* consume?  Macintosh PC
> Exchange claims to require a 3MB machine, but I can't believe it really eats
> 1.5-2MB of memory.

Macintosh PC Exchange runs only under system 7 or later; system 7 requires
2 megs, preferably 2.5 megs, minimum.  3 megs is only .5 or 1 meg more;
since RAM can be upgraded in Mac machines only in .5 or 1 meg increments,
the 3 meg minimum could really be a 2.68 meg requirement, rounded up to the
nearest half-meg.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jbailey@world.std.com (jim bailey)
Subject: Re: Soft_PC. How compatible is it?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:32:44 GMT

kanala@sc2a.unige.ch writes:

>>>
>>>>Soft-PC was mentioned a number of times.  Although it's likely to be slow,
>>>>just how compatible is it?  
>>>
>>>100%.
>>>
>>>>Do any users of Soft-PC have any comments?
>>>
>>>OK, I'm not a user I work for Insignia. But the emulation is solid.
>> 
>> Not true. An Apple systems engineer said that the low-level disk editing
>> routine in Norton Utilities (the PC version) became confused when it saw raw
>> Macintosh disks.
>> 
>> So make that 99.9999%.

>About a year ago, I worked for a company where I have used SoftPC and SoftAT
>on a Mac II, then on a Mac II fx. On the fx, the Norton benchmark was about
>8.6 to 8.8 (1=PC XT), and the emulation in version 2.3 was solid. It ran all
>the programs I have tried, even programs I wrote in dark ages on a IBM AT
>(Ryan-McFarlan Fortran, MS Fortran).
>However, it may have problems with some MS-DOS development environments
>like Borland Turbo Pascal when attempting to write directly to screen pixels
>and such wild things.
>Otherwise, the emulation is splendid, it has Extended Memory, can run Windows,
>and even emulates the kch-kch IBM startup sound for nostalgic users...

>Roman Kanala, COMIN, University of Geneva, Switzerland, kanala@sc2a.unige.ch

I don't think SoftAT supports extended memory, just expanded memory.  It
traps out if any direct accesses are made above 1MB.  This needs to
be fixed in the latest Windows compatible version or I can't use it.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: monitn@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Nicholas Monitto)
Subject: Re: How to add RAM to 10 MB in LC?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:34:49 GMT

rees@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Rees Griffiths) writes:


>      We just received a 4 Mb LC II and before turning it on I upgraded the
>VRAM to 512K.  To my horror the 2 SIMM slots were empty.  I thought damm
>we've been sent a 2 Mb machine.  Wrong on starting it there is 4096K
>available.  However the maximum RAM size is still 10Mb.  So when you put in
>the two 4 Mb SIMMS, where does 2 Mb go???????

The LCII has 4Mb soldered to the motherboard and 2 SIMM slots. Adding a pair of
4Mb SIMMs would give 12Mb of physical memory, but some sort of limitation in
the machine's hardware(?) allows it to address only 10Mb of memory. Strange
but true...

Nick
monitn@rpi.edu

>Rees

>_________________________________________________________________________
>Snail: Rees Griffiths, Computing Officer
>       School of Biological Sciences, Macquarie University
>       N.S.W.  Australia   2109
>Phone: (02) 805 8202  Facsimile: (02) 805 8245  Intnl +61 2 805....
>                                                              <<<<<>>>>>
>email               "rees@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au"               <<<<43>>>>
>                                                              <<<<<>>>>>
>*************************************************************************
>"There you stand like a duck in a thunderstorm again,
>aren't you ever going to understand".  W.A. MOZART.
>*************************************************************************
>P.S.  This message is transmitted with 100% recycled electrons
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Apple Crippling Systems?!?
From: seth@physc1.byu.edu
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:14:20 -0700
 <Stafford-111292163405@stafford.winona.msus.edu> <1gdb40INNps@morrow.stanford.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University

In article <1gdb40INNps@morrow.stanford.edu>, Malcolm Pradhan <pradhan@camis.stanford.edu> writes:
> In article <75489@apple.apple.COM> bill coderre, bc@Apple.COM writes:
>>Let's cut the bashing and get to the real question:
>>
>>What would you like to see in a new technology-leading Mac?
>>
>>What's missing from the Quadra 9xx and 7xx? 
>>
>>And remember, try to keep the price under $7500 for a base unit.
> 
>  Ok:
>  
>   DSP
>   DMA
>   SCSI-2
>   128K CPU cache
>   More RAM slots (Q700)
>   2.8 Mb floppy disks
>   
>  On the software side:
>  
>   Memory protection (nuKernel, if it ever gets out..) - it's sad
>    to have such a powerful machine and have it crash because a
>    small programs dies. No I don't want to install AU/X.
>   Multi Threaded support in OS.
>   DSP libraries, and codecs for QuickTime codec acceleration.
>  
>  I know every extra gadget costs money but Macs need to have that extra
> something (or somethings) to justify their purchase in a PC world,
> and the Mac GUI isn't going to be able to do it forever.

Ok, here's my version. 
>>What would you like to see in a new technology-leading Mac?
>>
>>What's missing from the Quadra 9xx and 7xx?

Well, not enough actually... I want a machine that doesn't have all that
junk that they have. I don't care about built-in ethernet... I don't care
about all the extra space in the Q950... All I want is four simm sockets, a
pds/nubus setup like the IIsi. I like the Quadra built-in video, and since
it obviates the need _for me_ to have to buy a video card, I would want it in
my  machine. It should be a 33 MHz 040 cpu. That is it. Basically it would be
a IIsi running a faster, better processor, and with better built-in video. I
don't need all that extra junk they make you buy when you want a very powerful
mac. I haven't needed anything extra in my IIsi since I bought it except a
RAM cache and fpu on a pds adaptor, which I wouldn't need of course with my
dream machine. I don't do all the high-tech graphics and such that require 
super-dooper graphics cards, and the best sound in and out money can buy, and I
resent that I am forced to spend thousands of dollars for stuff in a machine
when I all need is the basics and a faster processor. I have done nicely with
my 80 meg hard drive, and the need for space for several more drives inside
my machine just isn't there; I am tempted in the future to get a 300i cd-rom,
but by that time the external version would be out.

Seth Leigh
BYU Physics Dept.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: lamont@rtsg.mot.com (Bradley Lamont)
Subject: Re: ** WARNING ** AVOID TIGER SOFTWARE!!!!
Keywords: TIGER SOFWARE
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:24:55 GMT

In <1992Dec15.031832.17466@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> ajiang@lonestar.utsa.edu (Alexander X. Jiang) writes:

>Thanks for the warning...
>
>Tiger wasn't really even a good place to start with, they don't offer $3
>next day shipping as most other reputable mail-order place does, and worse
>yet, if you read their 'policies' carefully, they don't really refund your
>money, they credit your account for 'future purchase' should you decide to
>return their '30-day return guaranteed' products.
>
>personally, i find MacWarehouse, MacZone, MacConnection, and Mac's Place all
>pretty nice companies, especially the Zone and the Connection who offers
>slightly lower prices.  Mac's Place seemed to be little understaffed.
>
>I think at least a good mac mail-order house should start their name with
>'MAC', not like tiger..., besides, their catalog is way too big.

Personally, I kind of avoided Tiger software after seeing one of their ads
in MacWorld.

In it they had a quote under a picture labeling the card as the Rocket 25
and the picture showed a PC AT video card.  To me thats a good indication
to stay far away. :-)

Brad
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bradley H. Lamont                email:  lamont@rtsg.mot.com
Motorola, Inc.                           lamont@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,misc.invest
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: History was made today...
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:56:10 GMT

In <BzGvpx.43M@unix.amherst.edu> cgarnett@unix.amherst.edu (Craig Garnett) writes:

>Craig Williams (craigw@fnal.fnal.gov) wrote:
>: In article <1992Dec17.191137.423@walter.cray.com>, huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
>: wrote:
>: > 
>: > From the 1990 Almanac (I wish I had a later one)
>: > Sales in Millions:
>: > IBM  - 59,681
>: > Apple - 4,071

They have different fiscal years, so these aren't quite directly
comparable, but, in thousands:

Apple FY 91 (Sept '91) Revenues   $6,308,849
                       Net Income $  309,841

IBM FY 91 (Dec '91) Revenues    $ 64,792,000
                    Net Income  $ (2,827,000)    * Includes (2,263,000) 
                                                 from adoption of SFAS 106.
                                                 Total non-recurring charges
						 for the year, $6.3 billion.

According to John Akers, as reported in Investor's Business Daily 
16dec92, mainframe revenues may be down as much as 10% in 1992 from 
1991.  He also said the company's PC shipments will hit a record 
high this year, but that the company is losing money on PCs. 

It's also interesting to note that, based on the nine months ended 
30sep92, sales made up 50.6% of revenues, vs. 17.6% for software, 
12.7% for maintenance, 11.0% for services, 7.9% rentals & 
financing.  This is a considerable shift from a few years ago.  In 
1989, revenues were 66% sales, 13% software, 11% maintenance, 5% 
services, and 5% rentals and financing.  

If you want information on the companies, just call them up and ask 
for their annual reports -- a much more reliable source than the net.  
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jde@ausom.oz.au (Joseph Debono)
Subject: Re: Re: Password Protection
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 05:34:22 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

>Subject: Re: Password protection
>From: justin@nx30.mik.uky.edu (justin sullivan)
>In <dmeyers.723578665@mal-s2> dmeyers@mal-s2.gatech.edu (Dave Meyers) writes:

>[bit about screensaver approches deleted]

>I don't suppose there's a password utility that will prompt for a password
>when my PowerBook comes out of sleep mode, is there?

Yes Justin, there is and it's a ripper. It's called
Connectix PowerBook Utilities (CPU) and it can be set to ask for
a password at startup, after sleep, after a "panic" or any
combination of all three. It gives you enhanced power management
and displays as well. I wouldn't be without it on my PB!

Joseph Debono ...|            jde%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au
.................|  PO Box 270 Pascoe Vale South Victoria Australia  3044
-- 




Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: gpb@gpb-mac (greg berryman )
Subject: Re: .Z extension
Organization: SPS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:43:11 GMT

jpw@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:
: Someone sent me a file, and after uudecoding it, it now remains a *.Z
: 
: 
: How can I restore this thing back to its original (whole) self?

What you have is a file that has been compressed with the unix compress
command.  There may be a Mac app that will uncompress it, but the easy way
to take care of it is to ftp it to a unix system, uncompress it, and ftp
the resulting file (without the .Z) back to your Mac.

Greg.

--
My words, not Motorola's.   * ______ *
gpb@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com     * \ BI / * I will NOT ride in the back of the bus.
Greg Berryman (512)928-6014 *  \  /  *         SILENCE = DEATH
Motorola Austin, Texas, USA *   \/   *     First, be true to yourself.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: jbailey@world.std.com (jim bailey)
Subject: Re: Mac & IBM Info (added Info)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:57:31 GMT

wondertr@fraser.sfu.ca (wondertree learning center) writes:

>Responding to the question of if any basic Macs support 24-bit color
>(or 32-bit for that matter)
> ... the anwser is a resounding YES!!!
> 
>BOTH models of the Quadra line support 24-bit color with their built-in
>displays... on either 14" or 16" inch monitors and 16-bit color on the 21".

This is not completely accurate.  Only the Quadra 950 supports 16-bit
color on 21" monitors.  The rest is right though.

> 
>As to wether or not MACs support for 24/32-bit color is built in ...
>every try opening a 24-bit TIFF file on a PC with only an 8-bit card
>you can't do it (at least with programs I've used) but you can with any
>MAC beacuse the Color QuickDraw handle the conversion for you...
>THAT's BUILT-IN!!!!
> 
>TED

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: brett%jericho.uucp (Brett Cheng)
Subject: Error -535 (?) in DiskFirstAid 7.1
Summary: what is it?
Keywords: Disk First Aid
Organization: S-MOS Systems, Inc. (Vancouver Design Center)
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:55:15 GMT

When running Disk First Aid 7.1 on a Mac IIci with 80M drive,
I get the following error (with the cmd-S status window open)

 "Error -535 Missing thread record (TarID=2128, TarBlock=143)
 Test done.
 Problems were found but Disk First Aid cannot repair them."

1) what does this error mean?
   (yes, I've checked the sys error list but its not there...)

2) is it something to worry about or to try fixing?

Thanks for any help on this.

BC

-- 
Brett Cheng
uunet!jericho!brett    brett%jericho@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: N.W. Choe <nwc1@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Quadra 700 - How many monitors?
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75874FB5C05748D@sl-mac-13.rh.uchicago.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sat, 19 Dec 92 12:43:07 GMT
Organization: Beaver Consulting Co.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 12:46:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.211456.12044@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> ,
jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu writes:
>> However, using the PDS blocks one of the nubus slots so the Q700
can use a
>> maximum of 2 expansion cards, not 3.

...on the other hand, what about the second wave expansion chassis?
these let a number of Unewj NuBus slots appear, I think. I assume
that
daisychaining these is not allowed :-) . A nine-monitor mac, anyone?
N.W. Choe    Beaver Consulting Co.- Chicago
5454 S. Shore Dr. #318
Chicago, IL 60615     312.702.4605
"Embarking upon the obvious to stumble upon the truth."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jjmckay@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim McKay)
Subject: Re: Mac PC Exchange vs Dos Mounter
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:25:47 GMT

It's that weekly question all over again.

Answer:  Buy Access PC.  Mac-PC Exchange is basically just a warmed over 
older version of Access PC licensed by Insignia to Apple.  DOSMounter
does weird things like format PC disks incorrectly and create little 
files on your DOS disks.   Buy Access PC.  I know, I bought them all 
at one time or another.  AccessPC usually is the cheapest too.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Of ROM, video, and IMHO ....
From: seth@physc1.byu.edu
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:42:39 -0700
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University

Several questions:
1) I see people writing stuff all the time like "well the ROMs in <xxxmachine>
don't support this or that because they are older..." Why haven't I ever seen
anything come out from Apple that utilizes that little "ROM-SIMM" socket in the
IIsi and other machines? I mean, they went to the expense of putting it there,
why don't they use it? They could put all the sys. 7 junk that they added, plus
all of the stuff they currently patch, onto a new rom-simm, and we wouldn't
have to have a system that takes up 50*10^6 meg of RAM, plus they could put in
that nifty ram-disk that is on the VX...

2) I was wondering about something that I know is probably dumb, but here goes:
Why can't the IIsi be made to do better than 8-bit color with its internal
video? I mean, it currently uses regular RAM for its video, and I have 17 meg
of RAM, I would be willing to give up a bit more to the video to get more
colors. Is it a hardware problem? Is it a ROM problem? (another argument for
question 1) This is a legitimate question; I just wanna know, that's all.

3) What in the heck does IMHO mean?

Seth Leigh
BYU Physics Dept.

PS: about the dogcow explanation given by someone a few postings back; I looked
at the "options" in the page setup menu command, and it DID look exactly like
a dogcow. MOOF!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: takrewso@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU (thomas a krewson)
Subject: Re: Crash-Happy Mac II (possible hardware ?)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:22:28 GMT

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: 881045m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Richard Muise)
Subject: Crash-Happy Mac II (possible hardware ?)
Summary: Need help with Crash-Happy Mac
Keywords: crash mac system boot help
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:47:32 GMT


Subject: Macintosh Problems.

I was wondering if you would be able to help with a Mac problem. It is a
Mac II, with no PMMU, 4MB RAM, 1-800k drive, and 1-40MB HD. I recently upgraded
to SYS 6.0.8 (not Sys7 because , there is no 800k version of the Sys 7 disks,,
and in case of software incompatibilities.) It also has an internal NuBus 2400
modem, and an Apple 8-bit video card.
 So now the problems.:
At boot time, sometimes there is a 5 note harmonic. It usually happens before
the screen goes grey (ie loads the destop background), so i guess it's a 
problem with the self-test. I've taken out all the INITs, except gaurdian and
After Dark. But since the sound plays at power on, long before INIT's are
loaded i don't think it's a problem. Sometimes it will power on, load
init's and then, when the Welcome to Mac sign comes up i get more errors.

I have gotten four different errors:
System Bus  Error
File System Map Inconsistant (for which i immediately rebuilt the desktop)
Unimplemented Trap
Coprocessor Not Installed (in fact the 68881 is built in)

	Once i crashed into a monitor. Where the middle of the screen
puts up the Welcome to Macintosh sign, a prompt appeared, and it accepted
typed letters (i typed them , then deleted them before i messed up something
important). 
	One final problem, once it got as far as the Welcome picture,
when the screen went black, witha small 'Dead Mac' picture
Below it where the numbers :
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 F
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 A
(memory locations?). Is there any where i should look for problems. All
the chips and wires inside _seem_ to be seated right. What does the five 
note harmonic mean? Should I post to comp.sys.mac.help.my.mac.is.dead???
thanks
richard


-- 
Friends : Don't Let Friends Do DOS !	
	881045m @ dragon.acadiau.ca
       	881045m @ ace.acadiau.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hypercard
From: davids@gardener.lanl.gov (David G. Simmons)
Subject: Strange behavior
Originator: davids@feynman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:09:37 GMT


No, not mine....;-)

Here's the deal.  I am getting some strange and not-so-wondeful
behavior out of a script of mine.  I pass in a card number to
this handler (I also pass it to other handlers before, during
and after this handler) to process some information.  Here is
a cut-down version of the script:

on fooBar cdNo
   put line 1 of bg fld "pweek" of cd cdNo + line 1 of bg fld "aweek" of cd cdNo
	into temp1
end fooBar

I have MANY lines before this that use the "bg fld XX of cd cdNo" reference
without difficulty.  However, whenever I get to THIS particular line,
I get a "No such card" message.  I can comment out this line, and subsequent
lines with this SAME syntax work just fine.  So what the hell is wrong?

I have tried re-typing the offending line, changing the name of the parameter,
pasting the line from somewhere else that has an almost identical line (only
the FIELD names are different), all to no avail.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am *VERY* frustrated by this
strangeness.

Thanks in advance.
-- 

David G. Simmons
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| "Redneckness has got to be a disease.  You catch it on your fingers and it  | 
| just *crawls* right up your sleeves." -Lyle Lovett			      |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
These could not possibly be LANL's opinions.  I have not filled out the required
suite of forms in quadruplicate.
-- 

David G. Simmons
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| "Redneckness has got to be a disease.  You catch it on your fingers and it  |