Newsgroups: alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.civil-liberty,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment2 Query
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:02:34 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.society.civil-liberty,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality
 <1993Jan05.220654.33157@rchland.ibm.com><C0F4sH.n1K@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU

In article <C0F4sH.n1K@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer) writes:

   In article <1993Jan05.220654.33157@rchland.ibm.com> jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:
   >In article <C0EF49.DJz@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer) writes:
   >|> Ok, let's say it was written to appeal to bigotry. How does it
   >|> legislate bigotry? Does it force anyone to discriminate against
   >|> homosexuals? 
   >
   >No, but it allows them to discriminate.  It prevents any law from
   >being passed that makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of
   >a person's sexual orientation.  It's as simple as that.  So anyone
   >charged with discriminating against someone because they are 
   >homosexual can get out of it because the state constitution says
   >that such laws are not legal.  

   This is true. However, it still does not constitute legislating
   bigotry any more than, say, re-legalizing drugs legislates
   heroin use.

This analogy is incorrect.  The Colorado law removed the ability of
gay men and lesbians to seek recourse for discrimination.  A better
analogy would be if society made drug treatment illegal (and kept
criminalization of drug use).

Your argument is also ignorant of the facts.  Incidents of
discrimination are already occuring in Colorado.  Hate-crimes against
gays and lesbians have also nearly doubled.  There are people in
Colorado that have taken the passage of Amendment 2 to mean that
bigotry and violence based on a persons real or peceived sexual
orientation is alright.

For example, from the Village Voice (12/15):
"... Despite Maybor Webb's assurances, lesbians and gay men in Denver are
already suffering from the new law's effects.  One 17-year-old lesbian lost
her job when she came out to her employers days after the vote.  Another
Denver resident was told he's no longer welcome at his doctor's, now that the
law permits discrimination based on sexual orientation.  And attacks on
homosexuals have doubled.  Nearly every gay or lesbian bar in the city has
been disrupted by bigots who beat patrons in the parking lot or break the
windows of their cars. [...]

In an earlier article, you claimed:
> Show me how
>white, straight males have more than equal protection _before the
>law_. I agree that straight males have advantages based on some
>people's attitudes and customs, but I am talking about _legal_
>advantages. 

In Colorado, gays and lesbians are less equal, before the law.  They
cannot seek recourse for hate-crimes committed against them.  They
cannot seek recourse for discrimination is public services, jobs, or
housing.  

People that murder gay men and lesbians are routinely found "not-guilty" or
guilty of a lesser charge by many juries throughout this country.  A
defense of "attempted seduction" by the victim toward his murderer is
often enough for the jury to justify the action.  This type of _legal_
discrimination is pervasive in our socity.  In Colorado, it is now
part of their constitution.

Scott Safier                                   corwin+@cmu.edu
Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon University
        
member, T.S.A.K.C.  B0/1 f+ w- g k+ s- m(+) e++

"We do not have an anti-gay policy... The problems Boy Scouts are
having are with people trying to get in - the gay community, the
homosexuals, the atheists."
Burford Hill, Western Regional Director, Boy Scouts of America. 
5 June 1992, San Francisco Chronicle

"We don't necessarily discriminate.  We simply exclude certain types of
people."
   Lt. Col. Gerald Wellman, an ROTC instructor at the MIT,
   on the military's ban on gays
   Newsweek, May 25

Xref: sparky alt.politics.correct:6119 alt.politics.equality:44 alt.society.civil-liberty:7331 talk.politics.misc:66801