From: i000@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re:RSS (CONVERTED-HINDUS[Muslims] and their questions..)
Originator: indu@iss700
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 22:11:20 GMT

Article: 82966 of soc.culture.indian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: Re: RSS ( a reply to fundamentalists)


The following are the set of articles posted by some friend(s) on s.c.i 
(it is interesting to note those friends and their pattern).

THIS IS ONLY INTENDED TO RAISE THOSE QUESTIONS WHICH OUR FRIENDS ARE 
unable to answere and hence avoiding to answere. 

Since all of these articles are from the same person, I try to handle them 
in one shot.

Please proceed.


                 ***********


>> 
>> >[.....]
>> >What a great way of disobeying the constitution and suprem law.
>> >[.....]
>> 
>> Do you know that none of the court orders, as of today, has been
>> disobeyed by VHP/RSS? The High Court order prohibits the construction
>
>This can only be established when the team sent by the Supreme court to
>Ayodhya to inspect the construction submits its report. The court can then
>decide if the construction violated the order of maintaining the status quo.  

THIS IS ALREADY  ESTABLISHED. For, BABARS ENTRY INTO A HINDU RELIGIOUS PLACE
PROVES THAT WHAT HIS ACTUAL MOTIVES ARE.  NOW WHAT SUPREME COURT?
   Will the supreme court deduce that whether RAMA was born or not?
   Can Supreme court find out wheteher RAMA was born to Kausalya on a particular
     date or not? And can it provide the actual BIRTH TIME?
   Can the SUPREME COURT find out whether Lord RAMA was born at at a given
     place exact to its longitudes and latitudes?
   Can the supreme court call all those SIX LAKHS who lost all their lives 
     fighting a ILLEGAL STRUCTURE UNDER BARBARIAN RULES and find out what they
     were fighting for?
   Can SUPREME COURT also deduce why and How HINDUS were converted by the 
     ISLAMIC thugs and what the actual measures and secretive tortures they 
     put the indian society to?

   IS IT THE DUTY OF SUPREME COURT TO FIND OUT THE TRUTHS BEHIND EVERY RELIGION?
   THIS IS SOME THING ABOVE THESE COURTS. IT IS A BELIEF OF 80 Crores of Hindus
   who are present not only in BHARAT but through out the World. It is no 
   Religious mamla. It is a matter of OUR NATIONAL Prestige. Thats it.

   TODAY WHEN THESE QUESTIONS ARE ASKED THEN THERE IS NO ANSWERE. 

   A BIASED MIND (yours) WHICH DOESNOT WANT TO SEE THE TRUTH AND CANNOT EXTRACT 
   THE DETAILS FROM AN ARTICLE IS NOW FURTHER TALKING ROT (Ref: RSS )

   WHAT MUSLIMS AND WHAT THEIR LEADERSHIP? THESE BUNCH OF BIGOTS who donot
   care a old and abandoned lady, for their fanatical motives cannot digest
   and understand the basic ideals of assimilation, peace, HARMONY, 
   are today talking of SUPREME COURTS. 

   Very fortunate that INDIA is still a Hindu dominated country where 
   Hindu ideals are still respected.  Had they been in some other 
   Islamic Country they would have been STONED-TO-DEATH.

   THEY ARE NOW MAGNANIMOUS TO LET THOSE MUSLIMS STAY IN THE VICINITIES 
   OF OUR RELIGIOUS PLACES.  FOR THEY ARE HINDUS, unlike those who cannot
   tolerate even a human of any other race to enter or inspect what 
   is going on in the name religion in those places.

>> -Girish.
> 
> Javed


Article: 82968 of soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: Re: RSS ( a reply to fundamentalists)
> 
> >>   Even all the proofs you require are quoted in my article on AYODHYA..
> >>   posted in s.c.i.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >That's why BJP and RSS want to settle the issue outside the court.
> >ideas of RSS.
> 
> >Bye
> >Adil



>As far as I know the BMAC has (at least publicly) always maintained that it
>will accept the decision of the court even if it goes against them.
>--Javed.
  WHETHER THEY MAINTAIN PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY,  CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
    What does BMAC mean? Is it a group of Indiviaduals or a Group who have
    registered themseleves with some Articles of Associtaion? Or is it that
    Registry certificate saying that so-ond-so maulana, so-and-so kamaluddin
    are BMAC?


    All the present leaders of BMAC were involved in some nefarious act of other
    in the past. THESE ARE THE SAME FELLOWS WHO COMBINED UNDER SOME OTHER
    JUNK BANNER AGAINST SHAHBANO VERDICT. THESE ARE THE SAME JUNK or AULADS 
    OF THE SAME FANATICS WHO WERE AGAINST UNITED INDIA. THESE ARE THE SAME 
    Anti-National, Bigotry, Fanatical leadreship which has taken 
    Converted-Hindus (whom you may want to call Muslims) 400 years back.
    I hope with the same breath if they take them back by  another 
    800 years then the existence of muslims itself will vanish. We can 
    assimilate our converted-hindu brothers without any of these leadreship
    hassles.

Article: 82994 of soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: Re: RSS ( a reply to fundamentalists)

In article <1992Aug30.220214.10845@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
bond@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Girish Bonde) writes:
> In article <1992Aug30.100629@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
writes:
> >
> >This can only be established when the team sent by the Supreme court to
> 


IMO the issue can be tackled in two ways :

>1. The govt. arbitrates or negotiates a settlement between the two sides. But
>2. The "muslim leadership" volunteers to hand over the mosque over to the RSS
>3. The VHP-BJP-RSS combines gives up the claim on the BM and negotiates with
>4. The court determines the likelihood of a temple having been demolished to

    THERE ARE COURT ORDERS PENDING AGAINST ABDULLAH BUKHARI (some guy for 
    JAMA MASJID in New Delhi). Ask him to attend the court first.
 
    AND before you pass your verdict, please prove your credibility 
    that you read articles with an intention to get the news and not
    to mislead others who do not have access to that. (w.r.t RSS )


Article: 82997 of soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: Re: RSS ( a reply to fundamentalists)


>A favourite half-truth from the BJP-VHP-RSS combine. They never mention why
>this was so. There had been some trouble over the issue in the 40's(?) which
>lead to a court ordering that the muslims could pray inside the the mosque
>while the Hindus could worship at the Ram chabutra in the compound of the
>masjid. When the idols had been secretly smuggled inside the mosque one night
>some years later, tensions flared up again leading to the court ordering
>that the masjid be locked and muslims were barred (I'm not very sure if it
>applied to the Hindus too)from praying in the mosque to maintain peace. This
>is touted by the VHP-BJP-RSS combine as proof that the muslims have no claim
>over the masjid.
   OK NOW KNOW THAT ONLY MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN BARRED TO ENTER THE TEMPLE. 
   HINDUS ARE ALLOWED AND THE SAME COURT HAS ALSO ALLOWED REGULAR HINDU RITUALS,
   ARCHANA, POOJA AND OTHER RITUALS. 

   Now not only these; there are imminent archaeologists who have surveyed
   and found existence of an Hindu structure ( non Islamic). 

   Also I DONOT KNOW WHETHER BABAR WAS FASCINATED BY  INDIAN ARCHITECTURE 
   FUNDAS BUT THERE ARE CARVINGS OF PARROTS, YAKSHIS, CREEPERS AND OTHER
   HINDU ARCHITECTURAL SYMBOLS. ARE THESE ALSO ISLAMIC?
 
 

>> dispute  the  explosive  potential it has acquired. Such  developments

>Girilal Jain is blissfully ignorant of the agenda of the RSS-VHP which calls
>for the destruction of over 3000 mosques which they claim have been built after
>destroying temples. There's no reason to believe that they will give up their
>claim even if the muslim community agrees to hand over the mosque to the
>RSS-VHP to build a temple.
>
  ACTUALLY THE VHP IS JUST WANTING 3  such TEMPLES. Others are left away.
  And these are so important to Hindus as are Mecca and Madina to MUSLIMS.
  Actually not all Muslims believe that. Only a few minority of them. Others
  are just being grossly misled by their fundamentalist leadership.

> 
>> Thirdly, the Supreme Court cannot resolve this problem, brave declara


>He has a point here about the Supreme Court not being able to cut through
>the legal maze but its possible for a Supreme court panel of judges to make
>a final arbitration in a reasonable time-span after going through all 
>currently available documentation and evidence with the understanding that its
>ruling will be binding even if one party feels that its decision is unfair.
>
  LEAVE ALL THESE. One cannot expect Supreme Court to decide whether
  ALLAH exists or not, or Whether RAM was Born there or not.



> 
>> The critical issue in this case is in fact no longer legal at all. The


>There are at least three other sites in Ayodhya which also lay claim on the

      ***  I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED ***

>
>
> 
>> The Supreme Court can only help prolong the status quo as the  Allaha-
>
>
>The BMAC cannot claim to be representatives of the muslim community. And
       TRUE. BUT BMAC DOES NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU SAY. IT IS  BLINDLY 
  CONVINCED OF THAT. AND TRIES TO PROJECT THAT WAY.

>as such their suit in court is their personal public interest litigation.
>But it is a fact that society as a whole is now party to the dispute and
>hence trying to dismiss the role of the BMAC as an illegitimate but
>
>
> 
>> The VHP leaders are not being deliberately provocative and  subversive


>Great ! His argument is that the since some leaders of the BMAC were so
  HE DOES NOT MEAN THAT. HE ONLY SAYS THAT BMAC has no right to talk on
the grounds SUPREME COURT and stuff..



>One thing to be made clear is that its my opinion that the muslim community
>is certainly not crying for preventing the hindus from building the temple
>for Lord Ram. Contrary to popular belief the muslims have a high respect for
>the Hindus and their belief. The problem here is that there seems to be a case
>of injustice being sensed by both communities which is largely as a result of 
>political events and historical acrimonies. The Hindus are incensed at the
>percieved stubborn attitudes of the muslims and hence fitting their
>stereo-types

  THE INJUSTICE IS NOT JUST BEING SENSED. BUT HAS BEEN COMMITTED. AND 500 years
  BACK. AND NOT ONCE OR TWICE BUT 3000 times. IT IS AN ACT OF CORRECTING
  THREE OF THOSE GREVE ERRORS AND FORGET OTHERS. THAT IS THE MAGNANIMITY OF
  VHP.


>of the trouble-making muslim. The muslims on the other hand see that there
>is no *visible* sign of any destruction of a Ram temple and seeing the
>BJP-RSS-VHP spearheading the movement they donot want to be seen surrendering
>to these groups who have made no secret of their anti-muslim stand.
>These perception may be right or wrong but are for real and each perception
>seems to be feeding the other when any major politico-religious upheaval takes
>place.
   WHY WILL THEY BE ABLE TO SEE, THEIR LEADERS ARE THGERE ALWAYS TO MISLEAD
  THEM AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS EASY TO MANIPULATE THEM ON THE NAME OF RELIGION.
  THEY HAVE BEEN UNDERGOING ALL THAT SINCE AGES.

>
>

> 
>> For, there cannot be much doubt about the existence of the temple.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Then the RSS-BJP-VHP should have no problem in convincing the rest of the
>country and the court that a temple was indeed demolished and would lay to rest
>the controversy.

    PLEASE Refer India Today Aug'15 pages 14-21
    and find out HOW  the COMMON MAN ON STREETS IS THINKING AND VIEWING THINGS.
    IT IS A CHANGE BROUGHT AFTER A PERIOD OF 5 years, since          he has 
    started knowing facts. THE DAY WHEN EVERY BODY KNOWS OF ALL THESE 
    EVEN YOU WILL BE CONVINCED OF ISLAMIC-CRUSADES and their 
    horror filled side effects.
    


>--Javed.

-Indu.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  The views expressed above are on my personal basis.                 |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|  NO DEATH THREATS PLEASE!                                            |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian