HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the CON
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:53:18 GMT

cerebus@engin.umich.edu (Joe Gorde) writes:
>>Some of the panels were fairly boring, others were great.  The most
>>"exciting" had to be the one on "Do Writers Need Artists?" in which
>>Mark Bagley from Marvel (Spiderman Artist) and Steve Gerber (Howard
>>the Duck, ex-marvelite) got in a spite match about working for someone
>>like Marvel, and Bagley postulated that turning out shit was fine as
>>long as you could do it monthly.  Then there was Todd McFarlane vs.
>>Doug Murray and members of the audience, and several exchanges which
>>involved "Fuck," "Fucking," and other conjugations of the word.  The
>>audience was really getting into it...  Peter David, although not a
>>member of the panel, was in the audience, and summed things up nicely.

>Can you give us some of the *content* of this?  What were people's positions?

Doug Murray, in the opening comments, said that it was a stupid topic
with an obvious answer - artists NEED writers.  He defended this all
the way through, with some lovely non-sequiters and very bad
analogies.  The best statement was where he claimed that nobody could
think both logically (for writing) and visually (for artists), at
which point the audience generally laughed at/booed at him.

Todd McFarlane said that he doesn't need a writer.  He says he knows
the writing in spawn isn't as good as it could be, but that he
didn't want the aggravation of working with someone else for a long
period of time.  Went on and on about how simple his life was, and
seemed rather slow.  He claims that his sales are proof that writers
don't need artists.

Mark Bagley claimed that artists need writers, because it's hard to
crank out that many issues a month if someone's doing both jobs at
once, and he's not really interested in writing anyhow.  Oh yes, he
also thinks he draws real well (audience laughter).

Wagner and Gerber were the most rational.  Gerber had a theme of
disgust for the two big companies.  They felt that if an arist really
thought he could plot well enough, and that dealing with a writer was
too much of a hassle that it was up to the artist.  However, if the
artist didn't then try to get better at being a writer, he was
cheating himself and the audience.

It was a rather stupid question... it totally depends on the artist -
look at the Tick, and if you're counting ability to get it out
monthly, there's Dave Sim.  On the other hand, you have Rob Leifield.


-- 
Real Programmers don't write in Pascal, Mesa, Ada or any of those other pinko
computer science languages. Strong typing is for people with weak memories.
From: mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC's plans
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:30:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame


 lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>In <k79mqr#.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>
>>                 yEs, DC really is doubling the number of titles it's
>>offering, and turning every viable title it carries into a constellation
>>of four or five titles.  
>
>Hmmm, so Sandman becomes:
>
>Sandman 
>Death           Who dies this month?

 Maybe a Suicide Squid crossover?

>Delirium        Issue #1 will be a Flaming Carrot cross-over.
>Destruction     And you thought Lobo was nasty.

 Both of these two will have lots of crossovers with the version 4.2 
Legion of Superheroes; Delirium will have regular visits with the 
Bierbaums, and Destruction will congratulate them on the fine job they've
been doing on the universe. 

--
+               Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics                +
+                                                                           +
+ mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu       "Come, come Slygg..."                    +
+ mkelly@undhe5.hep.nd.edu                                                  +
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Dealer horror stories (was Re: San Diego Con Horror Story)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:47:21 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx


	I didn't personally see it, but the guy who ran the store where
I used to shop said some guy who doesn't read comics at all bought 
all the copies of Superman #50 (where he proposes to Lois) after seeing 
a mention of it on TV.   I also heard from the folks at the store where
I go now (fewer fanboys, and the staff is cooler) that some kid bought 
50 X-force #1 (or 10 of each, I fergit).  

	However, it nice to see when this older ("Dad") type asked if 
Sandman was any good, he got a chorus of "yes-es" from me, the folks 
behind the counter, and another guy in line.  Another convert, mwah-hah-hah!
	Also, Elmo has gotten me into Zot, (and Tick).
	How about the reverse?  Anyone else have any "save the fanboy"
stories?
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
	"Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball."-Saturday Night Live
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: CEREBUS - obscurities
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:56:43 GMT

The "epilogue" section of Issue 138 *is* included in the _Jaka's_Story_
phonebook.

Alexx


Alexx@world.std.com
"(WHAT IF The Batman(tm) had become... A Psychiatrist?  "A treatise 
 on the collective unconscious crashes through the window!  'I shall 
 become... a Jungian!'")"
		-- Moriarty
From: ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu (Eric J. Olson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: CEREBUS: M&D 10 (spoilers)
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:59:57 GMT
	<1992Aug14.182938.8897@athena.mit.edu> <GK5NBWWD@cc.swarthmore.edu>
	<Bt01Kr.LLs@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam Fans

In article <Bt01Kr.LLs@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nathan D. Johnson) writes:

>What I am wondering is, who is the bishop? Powers hasn't shown up recently, but
>I don't know why he would want to save Julius. 

Punisheroach.

Eric Olson <ejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: birmingh@fnalo.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Subject: Re: Giffen : Re: Biz quitting Lobo?
Organization: Huh?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:27:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug19.134200.6124@iscsvax.uni.edu>, levin6706@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>         From what I understand, Giffen's going to try and "imitate" Bisley's
> style, to keep, oh I don't know, the ambience (sp?) of the book, maybe? 
> Something stupid like that.  Personally I think this kind of fanboy cowtowing
> is dumb.  What ever happended to freedom of expression in the visual artform? 
> Why can't we see (and accept) other artist's renditions of out favorite
> characters? Why now, does anybody who wants to draw LOBO, have to do it like
> Bisley?  

         I agree that this is stupid. I (fanboy or not) do not want to see
    Giffen imitating Bisley. I am even *less* inclined to buy the rest of
    "Lobo's Back" now that I have heard this tidbit. However, I bought
    issues one and two because I like Bisley's art, not because I am a Lobo
    fan. Since Bisley isn't going to be drawing the rest of the series, I
    won't be buying it.

> ... Look at Barry Kitson.  For a few years he was drawing LOBO, and
> everybody was happy.  Suddenly, Biz came out with his version and becomes the
> king of LOBO.  And anybody who tries something remotely different is 
> automatically snubbed.  Out of the blue, Barry Kitson becomes invalidated?  
> Is that right?  Is that fair and just to the artist? 
> 

         I do not think Kitson is invalidated by the fact that a lot of
    people like Bisley's Lobo better than his. People have their
    preferences in many matters. For example, I heard a Muzak version of
    Stairway to Heaven once. I'm sure there are lots of people who'd like
    it; I am not one of them. I am sort of that way with Bisley and Lobo. 


-- 
 Phillip J. Birmingham   birmingh@fnal.fnal.gov  
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
 "Mister Gaunt knows best."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Good Week Reviews, 8/22/92: THE SANDMAN 42/Brief Lives 2
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 05:49:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons):
>Mervyn...looks vaguely familiar -- can anyone place him?

If you've just [re-] read Season of Mists, you might be thinking
of him as one of the characters who came in when Morpheus called
a general meeting before going to Hell.

>Desire swears three oaths of honesty, none of which ring a bell
>and none of which ring of truth.

I believe them.  Remember, the indication from last issue is that
Desire really doesn't want anyone finding Destruction.

>"A Game Of You" keyed on the Land, which is somehow associated with Eleanora.

Are Eleanora and Alianora (the princess for whom that skerry was created)
the same person?  I was wondering.

>Fearless prediction follows:
>
>I don't think Delirium is going to make it to the end of The Sandman,
>and I have some doubts about Desire and Despair as well.  

I'd be very surprised if you're right.  It would be uncharacteristically
melodramatic for Gaiman to start knocking off the Endless.  The only
sibling who seems to stand a good chance of being replaced is Morpheus.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
From: crisper@deeptht.armory.com (Crisper Than Thou)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Fox's Fall Animation--Batman and X-men
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:43:59 GMT
Organization: The Armory (crisper@armory.com)

News from the San Diego Comicon on the animated BATMAN:

Okay, they had a two-hour previewing. I've seen five episodes so far
 (one Catwoman, one Poison Ivy, one Man Bat, and a two-part Two-Face
 origin story). And I'm very enthusiastic about it. *Really* good stuff.

It starts Sept 5th (Saturday) morning. Then a prime-time show on the 6th
 and THEN they start the daily late-afternoon runs. About thirty episodes
 are in the can and ready to go.

I could ramble for pages but suffice it to say that I'm really impressed.

	--The Elder Dan
	"Thank you Easter Bunny. BOK! BOK!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company
	<1992Aug11.125816.17927@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> <13990@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
	<77858@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:27:21 GMT

In article <77858@ut-emx.uucp> cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner) writes:
   I have a complete run of Eclipse's FUSION and a good portion of the ZOT! 
   series, in the same boxes with the semi-valuable stuff like a 1st printing
   TMNT #2.

Semi-valuable ?  Maybe inflated prices, but last I saw it, it was $50 !
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: nudd@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Nai Ying Kwok)
Subject: Re: 2000AD  RULES
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:03:21 GMT

Scot Joseph Wilson (u9044140@cs.uow.edu.au) wrote:
: Ok dudes, what's ya fave character and series in 2000AD?
: 
: just want to see what others like.
: 
: I like Rogue Trooper [Friday], ABC crew and FINNFINNFINNFINN.
: 	[and Revere and Dredd and........]
: 
: 

Not to mention ....  SLAINE!
Especially "THE HORNED GOD".
: -- 
:    	Paul Davis, [RENEGADE]	u9035281@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au
: 	University of Wollongong Simulation Games Secretary
: 	"Of course I'm Psycho - I'm a SOLO"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-                   - We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as  -
-                   - long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for -
-     Nudd          - making a useless thing is that one admires it      -
-                   - intensely.                                         -
-                   - All art is quite useless.                          -
-                   -    -_The_Picture_of_Dorian_Grey_, Oscar Wilde.     -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Montague_Kevin @Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Comment on Marvel Tendencies from a Marvel Character
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:09:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: In Effect Enterprises

In article <1992Aug21.032110.29759@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:

[snip, random stuff]

>      If writers like Nicieza and Lobdell (who I maintain is a good writer, not 
> a "washed up What The reject") can yak yak yak yak. . .[snip]  
> They'll never be high art, but at least they can be 
> high-quality low art (like good quality rap or an excellent sit com)...produced
> for the masses, sure, but not pandering to them.
>      Dave Van Domelen, metaposting like crazy

Hello?

"high-quality low art (like good quality rap. . ."???
I don't even know where to begin.
Philistine.

Kevvy Kev
The lyrical miracle

"Socrates' philosophies were fatal"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jlmiller@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: San Diego Comic Con question.
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:26:25 GMT

Question about San Diego Comics Con.

Was Bill (Zippy) Griffith there as he claimed he was forced into being? (In
Zippy at least.)
Was he really that much of an asshole towards everybody?

If you read Zippy, he considers us _all_ fanboys, mainly focusing on anyone who
would ever go to a comics convention, but basically anyone who reads what he
considers to be tripe; i.e. anything but literature and Zippy.
He can't really be like that.
Any comments?

jonathan.
From: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Popularity in Comics (was Liefield Throws Tantrum)
Date: 23 Aug 92 01:32:00 GMT

Hey!  People followed up one of my posts.  Hasn't happened in a while.

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor):
>>It's kind of depressing that comic book companies succeed by aiming
>>their books at a younger audience, one which in general has less
>>disposable income than (I expect) most of the people reading this
>>post.  It emphasizes what a minority adult comic readers are in the U.S.

>I don't see it as depressing.  We simply need to accept that there are
>two comics markets.  There is a large market, consisting primarily of boys
>in the thirteen-year-old range.  And there's a much smaller market,
>consisting primarily of older readers, with larger disposable incomes,
>who have been reading long enough to have more complex tastes.

I can accept that there are two markets.  Comic companies which aim at
the younger market can succeed wildly (Image, of course, but Valiant
is also doing well enough, not that I want to seriously compare the
two).  Comic companies which aim at the adult market have nothing like
the success they enjoy, even though their target audience has much
more money to spend.  Some of the best books of the last few years
came from Piranha; where are they now?  Fantagraphics is hardly making
a killing either.

Why?  Because, as you say, the adult market is much smaller.  I find
that depressing.

>The comics we may sneer at today are often the comics we liked, or
>would have liked, when we were twelve.  There's nothing reprehensible
>about the fact that most comics are still geared for that audience.

I don't sneer at the comics I liked when I was twelve.  In fact, I
still collect and read them.  That's a minor eccentricity.  I also go
see children's animated films.

But it is unfortunate that most comics are geared for twelve year
olds.  That's not true of most movies, for example, or most books.

If I meet somebody who knows how to read, I can pretty much always
hand them books that they will enjoy.  If I meet somebody who knows
how to see, I can rent videos which they will like.  That just isn't
true in comics.  There are a couple of reliable standbys, like Maus
and Why I Hate Saturn and Love and Rockets and, perhaps, Asterix, but
if somebody doesn't like heroic fantasy or bizarre autobiography,
there just isn't all that much else.

And, since I'd like to read more comics like those, that's kind of
depressing.  (Yes, there are other possibilities, and even I can think
of them, but there's not much point to coming up with additional
counter-examples unless you can think of a whole set of books that I
am overlooking).
-- 
Ian Lance Taylor                ian@airs.com                uunet!airs!ian
First person to identify this quote wins a free e-mail message:
``I would prefer my life to contain more hours of pain, if that means
  that none of this pain is still to come.''
Organization: The Pennylvania State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:16:40 EDT
From: Ernie Oporto <EAO102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
 <1992Aug11.125816.17927@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> <13990@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
 <77858@ut-emx.uucp>

In article <77858@ut-emx.uucp>, cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner)
says:
>This brings up an interesting net.question:
>
>Who else has a complete run (or just a load of issues) of a particular title
>that will never be worth a damn thing (at least from a monetary standpoint),
>but that you've kept anyway?
>
>I have a complete run of Eclipse's FUSION and a good portion of the ZOT!
>series, in the same boxes with the semi-valuable stuff like a 1st printing
>TMNT #2. They're not worth much, but I wouldn't trade 'em for anything. Anyone
>else have a "sentimental collection" too?

Yep...I have the entire run of Strikeforce Morituri, including the prestige
format 5-part series that later came out.  I keep them just because they were
really neat stories and I know I'll want to read them again some day.  Also,
I have many, thought not all of the Mirage TMNT, and am trying to amass a
collection of Marvel's Star War series.  Also because they are a neat read.

  _____)           ______        _)       _)  EAO102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
                               __       __    OPORTO@CORVETTE.ECE.PSU.EDU
______    ______            ___      ___      Ernie "SHOKK" Oporto
                               __       __    Computer Lab Attendant
(_______ _      _ ________ _     _) _     _)  for PSU's CAC Department
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: maser@engin.umich.edu (Steven Michael Maser)
Subject: 1993 Marvel and DC Annuals
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:41:01 GMT

According to the Comic Buyer's Guide, Marvel and DC have released their
plans for the 1993 annuals.  There is some cause for hope here:

DC -  Everything will be tied into a project called "Blood Line" where
"each title will introduce one or more entirely new heroes -- and
villians, too."

This is scheduled to begin in Spring 1993 with Lobo Annual #1 (surprise)
and will continue through all DC annuals, culminating in a two-part
"Bloodbath" special.

Eh.

Marvel - Everything united under a common "theme" rather than a 
storyline called "The Superstars of Tomorrow".  Each annual will
premier a new, never-before-seen super-hero  or -villian.  (Sounds
familiar, don't it?)

The 1993 annual plan calls for all annuals to feature new character
premiers:  24 annuals, 24 new characters.

Moreover, there will be NO crossover storylines (!), NO family 
groupings (!!), and no umbrella titles (!!!).  Each annual will have
self-contained stories (!!!!).

Best news I've heard from Marvel in about 5 years...



 Steve Maser                       | "Thrill, Thrill, Thrill.  Kill, Kill,
   - another systems programmer at |  Kill.  Make The Scene.  Bump Off The
     maser@caen.engin.umich.edu    |  Dean..." - The Sacred Cows
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: sherman@oak.math.ucla.edu (The Ahkond of Swat)
Subject: Re: CEREBUS: M&D 10 (spoilers)
Organization: The Island of Misfit Toys
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 22:46:06 GMT

About Posey's friends in prison: it's pretty clear that the one saying
"Posey ... _quiet_ ... have you lost your ..." is Oscar, but the one
saying "Posey!  No!  NO!" isn't.  Not that it makes much difference.  
The one wiping away a tear on p. 5 is also Oscar.

No one has pointed out that the bright spheres on p. 11 are the planets
of the solar system, in sequence: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars are the 
four small ones, then Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.

This is also on the obvious side but I thought I'd point it out.

--
   Bill Sherman      S^1 `--> S^(2n+1) -->> CP^n     sherman@math.ucla.edu

   Bugs: "It's curtains for you, Rocky!" (hangs curtains on Rocky's head) 
   Rocky: "Oh, they're adorable!"
From: gt7932b@prism.gatech.EDU (Hunter Rose (a.k.a. Sanjay Parekh))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Grendel
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:29:25 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


	Does anyone know when the Batman/Grendel miniseries is going to
come out..?  Or has that been canned?  Thanks..


-- 
Sanjay Parekh
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7932b
Internet: gt7932b@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: us279764@mmm.serc.3m.com (Philip . Miller)
Subject: "How to be a super hero?"
Organization: 3M Company
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 17:46:50 GMT

What a pea brain!

Several weeks ago there was some discussion in this
news group about a book titled something like:
_How to Become a Superhero_.  I've looked for this
book in two well stocked comic/specialty shops in the
area and the proprietors look at me like I've got three
heads when I ask about it.  Obviously, I've got the title
wrong.

Could somebody help me out with the title and author?


Thanks!

Phil Miller
pmiller@mmm.com

(Please e-mail me directly as I don't read this news group
regularly.)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: pmm34393@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dr. Claw )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Help:  The DC Earth Scandal.
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:20:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bsw39p.26p
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <1992Aug12.111837.58079@cc.usu.edu> sl859@cc.usu.edu writes:
>	I know that some of you out there claim that the DC earth crisis
>is easy to understand, and all, but for me who has only two or three DC
>comics in his collection, and the only one who attempted to explain the
>crisis stuff to me was a friend a few years back...  AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!!
>... Needless to say I have no idea how it works.  So is there someone out
>there capable of explaining this crisis multi-earth thing to me from the
>ground up, because right now it sounds like a bunch of hog-wash!  Perhaps
>this is a FAQ.  But I have never experienced the DC comic concept (or at
>least had a clue as to how it functioned!)
>						wReam...
>P.S.  This is Captain CoreDump signing off!
>


I agree,I don't have the Crisis on Infinite Earths series and really
don't understand what happened. Any posting or e-mail would be GREATLY
appreciated!
-- 
-p. minutillo

"Go-go gadget copter!.....No,no--NOT gadget roller skates!..AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!"
    ---Inspector Gadget (from just about every Inspector Gadget episode!)