HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:07:12 GMT
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon9.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep10.104344.11823@daimi.aau.dk> ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
>
>Now, for one thing, Redline claimed that NO non-US players were among
>the best of the community.
>
>
>Now down to business:
>
>I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
>that my wife and child won't like......:( ):
>

I'm no Redline, but if you're willing to take on a next echelon US player to
prove your competence and can find a machine to play on, I'm willing to accept
your challenge. I'm better than at least 90% of the US players anyway.

It'd be a fairer contest in its own right, since I have a wife and outside
commitments as well (Of course, she's a good empire player in her own right-
the only non-allied survivor of your last Sweden SlowEmp game).

>BUT the conditions of the game need to be such, that I have a chance to
>perform as best I can.
>Which means:
>
>ROTATING UPDATES (yes, I know Redlien thinks those sthink...but if he wants
>to claim he is better than someone we need equal terms).

If you'd like. I'm also willing to play a gentleman's game, and dispense
with around the update attacks if you'd like. Conditions similar to the
recent Temekula-Stronghold world setup might be good- two 50-100 sector
start islands and little or no other land. Plenty of resources, but not
perfect worlds (yech).

>AT LEAST 6 DAYS BETWEEN UPDATES (I simply can't manage anymore....
>I PROMISED my wife this would be the last Empire game for some time).

Fine with me; I'm busy too.

>
>And I need to wait some time before this challenge game can start......
>I am currently playing the ALberta Invitational.....I need that to
>finish first, and I need my wife to calm down after that one....:)
>

Well, in theory I'm playing in UAlb too, but I haven't done anything since
the third week.

>
>Now some additional comments:
>1) A one-one challenge will NEVER prove who is the better player in an
>   ordinary game, but just maybe it will settle this criticism of NON-US
>   players.

True, but it some ways it is a better criterion of inherent skill, rather
than that derived from preconceived alliances.

>
>Claus/The King of Graahoeje
>(maybe not the best of Empire players but at least I have my pride)

Dan Mytelka (mytelka@enzyme.berkeley.edu, Langerhans)
From: heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Top Players
Date: 12 Sep 1992 02:43:39 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


man...  once again, i'll try to hope the network doesn't kill my
replys. :)

1)  Jason, you're right, and I tried to reply to that before:

	I play Narnia, and although I consider myself to be extremely
competent, I don't fool myself that I'd be able to CONSISTENTLY beat
people the calibre of Tedrick, Watkins, and Matt and Co. from Ga.
Tech.

I might be able to beat any one of them on a VERY good day, but not
consistently.  

2)  Jason, please buddy, I know how you are, don't get all stressed
out on the game ok? ;)

3)  It takes a HELL of a lot more than being able to beat up on FODDER
to be called one of the best.  I'm not even going to try to put myself
up in that position, i'm not qualified, and I know it.  It's people
like Jason, (who I must admit is an excellent economist for empire)
who do that already, but then again, ego's tend to run rampant on
empire.

4)  the joke that Seymour is talking about is that BOTH narnia, and
Narnia were me... :)  zog's just a little out of it, not actually
having seen some of the empire history Seymour has. :)

5)  The only people qualified to be in the 'Top' list that everyone is
speaking of, aren't talking, with the singular exception of Redline.

many of them, including Mithrilien, Evil_Empire, and such have been
mentioned, but IMHO there are only 3 people that I can expect to see
in the top 3 positions every time they get the mood to play:

a) Afrika Korps :  played by Tom Tedrick
b) Lersing:  played by Rob Watkins
c) Redline : man, your name keeps eluding me all the time you know? ;)

so, until you can say you can start up a 32x32 or 64x64 game, and beat
any of these 3 guys 1-1 3 throws out of 5, shut the hell up, cuz
you're just wasting bandwidth. 

:) for the humor impaired.


Mike
-- 
Gee, I finally made a .sig file. Isn't it grand?
Chris Green is way cool. :)   My idols are camels.  OH! You wanted sarcasm,
well, just go read my .plan then. :)  - Mike Monthey heinlein@matt
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 11 Sep 1992 19:41:30 GMT
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon9.berkeley.edu

In article <BuE02I.568@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:
>>ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:

>>>I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
>>>that my wife and child won't like......:( ):
>>I'm no Redline, but if you're willing to take on a next echelon US player to
>>prove your competence and can find a machine to play on, I'm willing to accept
>>your challenge. I'm better than at least 90% of the US players anyway.

>Ok, I'm willing to run this game.

>BBN code, NO NEW TEST CODE. NO NEW TEST CODE.
>any objections to allowing an australia contingent i nas well?

Whatever code Claus wants. I don't know that he's ever played BBN, so that
might put him at a slight disadvantage (though I've only played it for a week).

>I'll make three countries.

>Europe
>United States
>Australia

This will not work. Empire can be teams or one-on-one, but a three way
match will go absolutely nowhere. Whenever any country starts leading, the
other two countries will join forces and knock him down. A natural 
balance of power. No way that any player can beat up two competent
opponents simultaneously.

Maybe you can arrange it as a Ryder cup type thing though: say 5 one-on-one
matches between US players and others, all playing in the same world. It
would be interesting to go back at the end and see how five competent players
set up on the same starting island.

>
>-michael

Dan Mytelka (mytelka@enzyme.berkeley.edu, mytelka@mendel.berkeley.edu, Langerhans)


Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: nwang@black.clarku.edu (Anonymous)
Subject: Can i remove *.c files?
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)
Date:  9 Sep 92 03:26:31 GMT


I will probably exceed my disk quota when I receive my next mail
messege, so do any of you happen to know would the client still function
properly if I delete all the *.c files?

Thanks in advance!

Andy N. Wang 

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: bill@ncsu.edu (Bill Goodwin)
Subject: Broken Throne ... Anybody remember this one ???
Keywords: Broken Throne
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:22:39 GMT

	I'm looking for 'Broken Throne' a game similar to Empire that I've
fiddled with a little. A friend had a copy a while back and trashed it, and
can't remember where he got it. Anybody know of an archive etc. that has a 
copy of this game in ftp'able form ?

Bill Goodwin

bill@shaman.cc.ncsu.edu
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:46:33 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep9.115109.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:

|>         Odd, I could have sworn that several of the "Best Players" were non-US.
|> Or don't we count the games played last year and the years before?  Why is it
|> .. all of the so called "Best Players" play in Power Blocks?  ie.  They, and
|> their 10 companion countries win games...  What happened to the 
|> 
|>                     I Win this Game 
|> 
|> .. approach?  I find it hard to allow any of the current power block players
|> the ranking of a good player.  It is well known that if enough people attack
|> a single lone country, the country loses.
|> 
|> /* Lotz of disorganized thoughts  |   Shoot me Later */
|> /* runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu                      */
|> /* fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu                            */


Who are these power blocks that you are talking about?  I admit that
personal friends will often sign up for a game because they nkknow each
other and  like to talk to each other during a game.  It gets a little
boring sometimes when you don't have someone you know to talk specifics
with about the game.  However, I don't know of any so-called 'POWER
BLOCKS' (at least not any that I've noticed make any real impression
upon the game).  If you're worried about a 'Power Block' or something,
just go pick them apart one by one.  The odds that you'll be surrounded
by '10 companion countries' (or even 3) is EXTREMELY slim.  Evem of these
'Power Blocks' did exist, who really cares?  If you know how to play,
just deal with them in the clasic empire style (mow them down with the
rest of the FODDER).


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
-----
From: reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:10:50 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell) writes in pidgen english:

>To me, and maybe to many others here, it is absolutely clear that Vulgaria,
>Graahoeje, Lochett, Finland, and even Guzzer, let's not forget Dr.Bob, can
>play as good as you, Red. But PROVING? No, it's a waste of time. Every time
>I beat a US ace, I get some excuse: not enough time, connection broken, JUST
>dissolved, ace wasn't actually an ace (hi Barb), you name it. So I play for
>myself, and I don't care what you think, Red.

    Now just hold on a minute. Matt ran some of the first games I was in,
and he's a good guy and all, but he got my excuse totally messed up (he
was the one who thoughtfully told everyone Barbary Coast sucked. As an
aside, I'd like to say that I've always disliked BC as shorthand and
think I prefer 'Barb.')

    I think Angels, Tofu_Nation, and Nobody can pretty much back me
up on this one: I started an invasion of Tofu_Nation (henceforth TN)
but stopped when he told me he, Nobody and Angels were in a 3-way war
of some kind (that's what he told me.)
    I promptly notified all parties that I regretted spoiling their fun,
and was only invading by reflex, having long since been driven crazy by
rotating updates.

    You can see where this is going. My official excuse is:




	>> I wasn't really playing anyway  <<


    I'm getting sick and tired of dirtface, ratbag, non-native english
speaker types getting my excuses wrong. I go to great lengths to be
certain everyone knows the reason I don't win every single game I
start. If you have a question about one of my excuses, please, Please,
PLEASE, write me and confirm it first.
    As I am getting low on disk-space, the excuses-archive anonymous
ftp site is being moved, so is currently unavailable.
From: mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer)
Subject: Re: Land Units (complexity)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 05:43:12 GMT

In article <189l4bINNd9q@agate.berkeley.edu> tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
>It isn't the idea of land units that is the problem, it's having
>too many different types (which is a problem with ships and
>planes currently). You have to get someone who is mentally
>into pruning out the unnecessary unit types running some games.

What is the problem with many types of units? So long as the
various types actually have the capabilities listed in show
unit build|capability there isn't anything confusing about it.
I think many types make the game interesting. 

The problem is managing whatever units you have. That is
extremely time consuming and boring.

Negativland
-- 
Mike Linksvayer   m-linksvayer@uiuc.edu   +1 217 344 1326
From: fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Redline, Vulgaria, Ultima
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:46:08 GMT
Organization: UB

Everyone who couldn't care less about the "Hall of Fame" and all the old
cronies trying to out-ego each other, say YEA.  People who think its
important for Subbie to take notice of them and add their name to a
ugly display of fraternity, say NAY.

YEA!  Come on!  Let's get on with playing this game and having a good time.
If people spent half the energy they spend foaming at the mouth at improving
the game we'd be to Empire 7.0 by now.  Shut up!

-- 
Paul Fly                      | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing,
fly@acsu.buffalo.edu          |  but less interesting than looking."
v092pxca@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |    --Goethe
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 15:52:43 GMT

ARGH!!!  I'm going insane.
I don't believe i've ever had the displeasure of playing in a game
with YOU, Ultima ... perhaps our egos wouldn't fit in one world?  :)
Anyway, you are so *completely* clueless.   Graahoeje is one of the
absolute best empire players.  Finland is a very strong player.  Vulgaria,
who you are arguing with, is probably more than a match for you.
Give it a rest.  Most of us (who know the people you are flaming) are
just laughing at your stupidity.

Please, please, give it a rest, or confine it to email.

Jason -- Temekula
From: tedrick@bongo.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Best Players and all that (Harvard tourney, tradeships)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 03:30:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: bongo.berkeley.edu

Personally I think both Redline and Vulgaria are exceptionally
good players. I'm a little more inclined to respect the
European players than most Americans are, partly from
having been seriously outclassed by some of my Danish friends
playing chess in elementary school. European educational standards
are higher than in USA, and the standard of competition in chess
and other games is quite high as a result. Americans are
exceptionally aggressive compared to most other countries,
which gaves them some counter-balancing advantages.

Anyway, the Harvard tourney was one of the best empire events.
Maybe we ought to try it again if some experienced players
are willing to serve as deities and enough machines are available.

About BBN II, I knocked myself out to make it a classic game,
but unfortunately I made a couple serious mistakes (etus too
low per day, etc.) The chainsaw code is very good, but I'd
suggest not using tradeships if the code is used in a serious
game. Making trade more important would be very desirable, but
in my opinion it should be done by adding more commodities, making
them more valuable and scarce in some areas, thus indirectly
stimulating trade. But that is a very difficult and complicated
project.

The direct approach of adding tradeships is like attempting to
fix the problem of low commodity values by patching over it.
The commodity problem will still be there, and most likely
people will make huge fleets of trade ships for no purpose
other than generating cash. This adds a new activity which
players will be forced to engage in if they play to win, and
it looks like a game-breaker to me, not to mention a silly
way of spending ones time. It just complicates the players
tasks which are already too complex.

Anyway, I won't play in a serious game that has tradeships.
The idea is so bad that words fail me. Can someone else
opposed to tradeships please try to explain why they are
a bad idea?

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters)
Subject: Re: Redline, Vulgaria, Ultima
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:46:53 GMT

In article <BuLMny.7Jz@acsu.buffalo.edu>, fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly) writes:
|> In article <BuLEM0.HEz@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
|> >fly@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul D. Fly) writes:
|> >>If people spent half the energy they spend foaming at the mouth at improving
|> >>the game we'd be to Empire 7.0 by now.  Shut up!
|> >
|> >Only mr-frog can release new versions of empire with the name "empire x.x"
|> 
|> Just a figure of speech.  And I know chest-beating is a part of Empire
|> (and can be fun), but I don't get these private top ten lists and halls
|> of fame.  What's the point?  Oh, I get it.  "I'm the best player, but
|> here's a few of my friends in a list here, they're pretty good too."
|> 
|> -- 
|> Paul Fly                      | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing,
|> fly@acsu.buffalo.edu          |  but less interesting than looking."
|> v092pxca@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |    --Goethe


	"The point...", said The Saint to the Fly,

"...is that reading the Empire Hall of Fame document is for entertainment. 
the point of the HoF is not neccessarily to dictate who the best players are,
although undoubtedly some of the best players have wound up there.  Essentially
it is an extended concept of the Subby awards handed out at the end of games.
Some people enjoy being recognized by others for some accomplishments.  Others
like to read about players that they might not have had the opportunity
to play with and thus learn about them in some way.  Others read about
some of the characteristics of some players and try to emulate or avoid those
characteristics.  U.S Madison is a prime, and often mentioned, example.
He was a terrible player, and yet more people might recognize his name in a
game than they might recognize someone like Techno, who is a strong player, yet
not in the HoF.
	Throw in the summary from a couple of impressive games, and then
you have the whole document.  The chest-beating section is just that, only
one section.  And please, allow us to do that, some people find chest beating
to be very relaxing and entertaining....."

Also the unreleased *updated* version has included some more great players.
Such as:  Temekula, Guzzer, and others...

And I'm working on game synapsis for BBNII, so people can send me their
game synapsis and impressions and I'll include them, especially since I
didn't play in that game.

That's the point.  Any further questions can be directed by directly mailing
the SAWA at madpit@athena.mit.edu..."


Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: verprsks@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Andrew J. Verprauskus)
Subject: Open spots for a new player?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:10:32 GMT

I've never played before.  Are there any openings in a game suitable for
someone of my ability? 

Thanks in advance for your reply,
	Andy
From: zog@silver.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Blitz    &  Tech Production
Date: 6 Sep 1992 00:51:57 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ksu.ksu.edu


Keywords: 


I have been hearing all This conversation about How to limit Tech And how
Money was used to try and prevent tech wars...

Well here is What you can do

COME JOIN THE LABOR DAY BLITZ
that Greyhelm has advertized

   In it we are limiting Tech by reducing the amount of money you get from civs
and Bars.  you can easily go broke by producing Lots of Edu. and Tech if your not
carefull.

Just a thought


ZOG OUT
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: melissa@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Melissa C Merrill)
Subject: Re: Ancient Empires?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:42:24 GMT

>In article <92255.153435HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET> HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET writes:
>
>I would be interested to know if there are any versions of Empire
>being run which use   medieval or ancient economic, political, and
>military models, instead of twentieth century.
>
>Has anyone heard of such a variation on the game?


Well, I dont if anyone else has done this, but I did run my *only* 
attempt at being a diety, and I though it might be fun to try a low
tech game. The maximum tech was 60, and ships and planes were all limited
to that tech. Small world, only 12 countries. I think most countries
had a pretty good time. Why doesnt some else run a game like this? I
know I would like to play in one, or maybe if I could get a machine and
some help, I might run one, but Ill admit, Im not a great diety......:)

Melissa
TOG
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:36:12 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <36989@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
>4)  The game has start areas of unequal sizes 10-25 sectors.

>What I would like to know is where have all the really good games gone?

I've got high hopes for the currently running Chainsaw game, but we will have
to see how the new code works out.  Of course, if you are among the many who
have been spoiled by start islands, (Don't you yearn for the days of unknown
neighbors and unpredictable islands?) you wouldn't like this game.


-- 
Matthew DeLuca                      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their 
Georgia Institute of Technology      P.O. box."
Office of Information Technology                - Zebediah Carter, 
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              _The Number of the Beast_
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: agathon@athena.mit.edu (Garry Moorer)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:07:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.115109.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
|>         Anyone notice the result of these "Bad time Updates" in Euro III?
|> 
|>         Looks to me as only those who could make every update are still
|> playing.
|> 
|> /* Lotz of disorganized thoughts  |   Shoot me Later */
|> /* runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu                      */
|> /* fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu                            */


Yo, it just ain't so.  Some of us have missed several updates.  As a matter of
fact, some of us have missed several consecutive updates, not even logging
in for days at a time.  Had my FODDER neighbor shell me to pieces and take
half my country on the ground.  Of course whenever one finally has time to
play it gets retaken and then back to square one...  (Of course I don't really 
expect to be alive much longer at this rate :+}

But maybe the purpose of the 7am update was to cut down on those "update attacks"
that a lot of you seem to hate so much.   The reason I don't like the 7am update
is that 7am was always the ideal "mop-up and drop" time.


The worst new concept IMO:

Down Times.

That whole idea really sucks.  What if the only time you can log in is during
lunch breaks and stuff like that?  Or immediately after work?  Or what if one
ain't from the States and can't log in much at nite?   Why a game would be down
during the day is beyond me, but I guess it makes sense to someone so...
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. G. Moorer 			|     "Y'all lucky I ain't the president,
*=Aquitaine=*			|      'cause I'd push the fuckin button and
agathon@athena.mit.edu  	|      get it over with."  Bushwick Bill '91
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire