HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Subject: Re: What keeps me from being Lib. (was Re: FW: ne
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 19:30:08 GMT

In article <rdippold.703481360@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
|koumis@husc4.harvard.edu (Anthony Koumis) writes:
||In article <rdippold.703451296@cancun| rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
|||foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:
||||In article <rdippold.703367531@cancun| rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
|||
||||There would be coups, revolutions, insurecctions, riots, or you name it.
|||
|||Let them riot.  The ones doing the rioting are going to be the
|||nonproductive members of society who were on the government dole.
|||Plus outraged socialists, but they're for gun control anyhow, no
|||threat there.
|||
|
||Seriously, your flip dismissal of riot and insurrection is rather
||silly. [...]
|
|It was a flip dismissal because I thought it was rather silly to begin
|with.  Riots, coups, and revolutions, sheesh.  It wasn't serious and
|neither was I.
|

However, it was serious at least the riots part. 

Currently approximately 1/3 of the people in this country are employed
either directly or indirectly by the government. I don't know what 
minimilist government you would allow at the end of one year. I interpreted
you to mean almost none, say at most 10% of what we have now. 

If you cut the government to 10% of its current budget, there would be tens
of millions of people out of work. Industry would in now way be able to absorb
most of them into non-government supported work. I also suspect that many of
the monied people would not do as you suggest regarding production. Rather,
I think they would take their money somewhere else to invest than in an
unatable USA, being run by a bunch of fuzzy thinking, messianic, Libertarians.

The riots in the 60's were started by a lot less than millions of people.
You might also remember that many of those people who would be out of work,
loosing their houses scratching for food now have UZIs instead of the pistols
and rifles of the sixties.

Please don't accuse me of being for gun control from the above statement.
The one valid reason for not having gun control is to create a certain 
amount of fear in the leadership of the country of well ammned rioters
if they go to far in trying to screw up this country.

Richard Foy           Standard Disclaimer






Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics,soc.motss
From: solomon@chaos.utexas.edu (Thomas Solomon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Jerry Brown and lack of thinking
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:58:51 GMT
Reply-To: solomon@chaos.utexas.edu (Thomas Solomon)
Organization: University of Texas at Austin, Center for Nonlinear Dynamics

In article <11103@borg.cs.unc.edu> bell@cassatt.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell) writes:
>
>For business, the basic tax is a simplified version of the value
>added tax popular in other countries.  Our version would be much
>better because it is so simple.  Each company would just take
>its total sales and subtract its purchases from other taxpaying
>companies to get its tax base.  The tax would then be calculated
>by multiplying the tax base by 13%.
>
>It *is* a tax on profits -- profits are the value added.
>
NOT!  A VAT is not merely a tax on profits.  A company's profits are
determined by taking its total sales, subtracting its purchases from
other companies, _and_ subtracting the salaries and benefits that it
pays to its employees.  There is therefore a HUGE difference between
"value added" and profit.  This is especially true for service-oriented
industries.  If I were to run a company that fixed lawnmowers, e.g.,
the "value added" would be close to the full amount of payment for
services that we earn each year.  The only thing to be subtracted would
be the amount of money that we spend on tools to fix the mowers (plus
anything we spend on transportation and on record-keeping and
accounting).  But the salaries paid to the repair-people would be a
very large percentage of the total amount brought in to the company, so
the company's profit is _much_ smaller than the value added.  I could
imagine a situation in which all money beyond that spent on tools, book-
keeping/accounting and transportation goes to employees' salaries and
benefits.  In this case, the profit that the company earns is _zero_.
But the "value-added" is far from zero.

Another thing about the VAT that people often forget to mention is
the fact that all the "raw" products that a company buys to produce
their product have also been value-added-taxed at 13%.  So, the
tools that our lawnmower repair company buys will be more expensive
as a result, and, of course, we will pass that extra cost on to our
customers.  (If I have to pay more for raw materials, I have to charge
an equivalent amount more to my customers to make ends meet.)
Since a value-added tax (as Brown proposes) taxes goods at every stage
of the production, the total value added (if you take into account
every step of the production) is, in fact, the total value of the
product.  So the a 13% value-added tax _will_ increase the price of an
item approximately 13%.

                       Tom Solomon

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.canada
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Sydney Sharpe and Don Braid's new book on the Reform Party
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: ca,usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 04:59:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.193730.29974@cs.tulane.edu> coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.205104.21087@mdivax1.uucp>, robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson) writes...
>>Seriously, Laura has a point and Michael Hui could be right. The RP could
>>be a viper pit of racists. I just have not seen the evidence. Most
>>accusations amount to as much substance as Copps' ravings. Please, please,
>>please provide some hard evidence of the racist nature of the RP if it
>>exists. 
>
>Sorry, can't do that from down here.  My guess would be that the RP is an
>approximate equivalent to the George Bush style Republicans (in terms of
>right and left).  This should strike fear in your heart. <:-O
>But seriously, the Republicans haven't been noted for their "kinder, gentler
>nation" despite George Bush's flapping lips.

Oh yes, right on! I recently wrote a personal letter to Linda Cullen,
principal writer for the CBC Radio farce on the current Canadian
political scene called Double Exposure, commenting on her use once in a
while of a serene flute solo with piano accompaniment, perhaps it's
Ravel's famous piece?, whereby an even more serene clergyman's voice
slowly surveys the recent political developments over the music in the
same style that an Audibon member would quietly describe the migratory
patterns and feeding habits of birds over the Great White North.

Excerpts:

        "The BobRae was tending to his flock in the ...
         While the BobWhite was doing this and that ... "

They update the words each time, of course.

I wrote the letter to encourage them to keep doing that more, at least
regularly, since it truly makes me cry with compassion and love for my
country, where it is truly a

                 kinder, gentler, nation

than its southern neighbour, where I've just come back from a long
conference, and during that time I've had to defend my dignity using no
less than the maximum dose of biting insults and clever innuendos I've
learned to use well through public debates on the net. Here, in Canada,
I've never had to stoop so low in my face to face conversations.

No, I'm not slurring the entire population of the USA in my above
comment, but merely the hard-core elements I had to deal with during my
short stay down there. Of course, the locale says it all: the conference
was in Atlantic City, NJ. Form your own conclusions from that.

That place was a dump.

     Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: It can HAPPEN in *IOWA* [gay rights law]
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 08:57:37 GMT

In article <rm7k4INNokm@agate.berkeley.edu> gnn@mastodon.cs.berkeley.edu (George Neville-Neil) writes:
>In article <1992Apr4.215253.25602@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>I have read a lot of their literature; a couple of close friends of mine
>>are Mormon and we trade religious literature for the fun of seeing what
>>someone else's perspectives are. I have no problem with what you are say-
>>ing about "the policies of the Mormon Church", but you didn't refer in
>>your original article to the Mormon Church, but to Mormons, the individual
>>people. At absolute best, you can be accused of inadvertent insult due to
>>inaccuracy of language; if you say that's what it was, I'll believe you,
>>since you're usually reasonable -- but that's a minimum.
>
>Let's just say I have a strong allergic reaction to religious control
>systems :-) 

If you want to be able to criticize people for acting on their own
emotional allergic reactions, you have to be prepared to keep yours
under control a bit. 

>And, no, I was not attacking individual Mormons per se,
>although I always cruise the missionaries on the subway, I was
>attacking the Mormon Church.

All right with me; I don't like the Mormon Church much myself -- but
that wasn't what you said. I don't mind, now that you've clarified.

>Later,
>George

	-Nora


-- 
Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18312 alt.politics.elections:957
From: dwallach@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Dan Wallach)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Perot upcoming appearance on Larry King April 16th
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:16:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:

>Let's get together and try to get REAL questions on the show.
> [...]

>Your opinions about an "electronic town hall" are very interesting.
>Does this mean that you support bringing networks such as Internet into
>every home by pushing Congress to accept ISDN as a low cost alternative
>to the broadband networks that already connect nearly every university,
>government office, and business in America?

I really like this question, but I don't really think it's appropriate to
start talking about ISDN on a TV show mostly watched by people who have
a hard time telling RAM from ROM.

You could phrase the question a little lighter...

    Your opinions about an 'electronic town hall' are very interesting.
    Do you support deregulation of the telephone and cable companies to
    provide these services?  Also, much of the infrastructure to provide
    this support doesn't exist yet, especially to rural areas of the
    country.  Do you support government funding of the work necessary to
    bring the 'electronic town hall' to fruition before your tenure of
    office would expire?

I think you get the idea.  It just sounds pretty bad to use technobabble
to put Mr. Perot on the spot.  It would be interesting to see if he's willing
to put dollars where his mouth is, though.


--
Dan Wallach              "One of the most attractive features of a Connection
dwallach@nas.nasa.gov    Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces
                         of its cabinet." -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: B-CPU Mail Path
Date:  9 Apr 92 15:18:51 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

dild@exmus.fabersham.com (Jonny Handsome) writes:

>>So, if you want to bounce Ralphie's articles back at him (not that I recommend>it, no, never! :-)), don't use the "Reply" feature of your news reader - it
>>won't work.  Instead, mail the words of wisdom to:

>'Twould be naughty to send him unsolicited 'opinions'.

>>       agora.rain.com!b-cpu!ralphw        or
>>       b-cpu!ralphw@agora.rain.com        or
>>       b-cpu!maynard@agora.rain.com

>But...but...

>        % ping agora.rain.com
>        ping: unknown host agora.rain.com

>Ralpharella, what is your internet number? You didn't pluck your name
>out of the server did you???

No, he didn't.  Here's what nslookup has to say on the matter:

$ nslookup
Default Server:  spss.com
Address:  192.35.251.1

> set querytype=mx
> agora.rain.com
Server:  spss.com
Address:  192.35.251.1

Non-authoritative answer:
agora.rain.com  preference = 50, mail exchanger = previous.rain.com
agora.rain.com  preference = 60, mail exchanger = percy.rain.com
agora.rain.com  preference = 70, mail exchanger = percival.rain.com
agora.rain.com  preference = 100, mail exchanger = rain.psg.com
Authoritative answers can be found from:
previous.rain.com       inet address = 147.28.0.67
percy.rain.com  inet address = 147.28.0.66
percival.rain.com       inet address = 147.28.0.65
rain.psg.com    inet address = 147.28.0.34
NS.UU.NET       inet address = 137.39.1.3


   -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18249 alt.news-media:232
From: jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.news-media
Subject: Re: Bill Moyers: Listening to America
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:43:21 -0500

In article <1992Apr14.015705.16271@nic.unh.edu>, pas@kepler.unh.edu (Paul A Sand) writes:
> jm> == Jim Mason
> 
> jm> [...yakity yakity yakity...] Do you have any conception of how many
>     Americans are believers in horoscopes, channeling, mystic-crystals
>     and UFO abductions ? How about faith-healing ? [...yakity yakity
>     yakity...]
> 
> Sigh. No I don't. Do you? Are there any hard facts behind any of this
> babble?
> -- 
> -- Paul A. Sand                | Question Authority. 
> -- University of New Hampshire | Why? Because I say so, that's why.

	Gee, Paul, you are apparently sitting at a big university - so
	if you don't believe me, look it up for yourself. I'm too
	goddamn busy to do your research for you.

	By the way, if you hear something you don't like ... do you
	stick your fingers into your ears and hum the 'Star Spangled
	Banner' or something ??? Just wondering ...

-- Jim : Standard Disclaimers
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:17176 soc.culture.canada:3210
From: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Sydney Sharpe and Don Braid's new book on the Reform Party
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:54:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr7.193730.29974
Reply-To: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Distribution: ca,usa
Organization: The unofficial LSU news node
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-1855]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1992Apr6.205104.21087@mdivax1.uucp>, robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson) writes...
>coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE) writes:
> 
>>Not necessarily an elaborate plot, just good political sense.  Such actions
>>draw in votes from moderates, but don't really lose you any extremist votes,
>>because they have no where else to go.  At least, that was the way David
>>Duke played it. 
> 
>Sort of like how the NDP tones down its policy statements, secure in the
>knowledge that the communist vote has no where else to go :-) :-)

Actually yes, exactly like that!  I was still in Ontario when the NDP went
scurrying towards center when it looked like they had a shot at winning.
And, hey, it worked too. :-)

>Seriously, Laura has a point and Michael Hui could be right. The RP could
>be a viper pit of racists. I just have not seen the evidence. Most
>accusations amount to as much substance as Copps' ravings. Please, please,
>please provide some hard evidence of the racist nature of the RP if it
>exists. 

Sorry, can't do that from down here.  My guess would be that the RP is an
approximate equivalent to the George Bush style Republicans (in terms of
right and left).  This should strike fear in your heart. <:-O
But seriously, the Republicans haven't been noted for their "kinder, gentler
nation" despite George Bush's flapping lips.   

>As it is I am beginning to think that the RP is the victim of the Big Lie -
>call them racist long and hard enough and people will start to believe it,
>even if the evidence is lacking. 
> 
>Where is Manning's tell tale trail of racist statements?
>Where is Manning's past affiliation with racist organizations?

My impression of Manning (only from the Maclean's article, sometime in Jan)
is that he's much too smart for that.

>Where are the RP's racist policies?

Valid question.  Can anyone in Canada enlighten a news bereft soul such as
myself?  (And I know there are many other Canadians in the U.S. who are
similarly "Canadian news challenged".)  What has the RP said they'd do, if
elected, that is racist, either blatantly or subtly?  Or is it just a creepy
feeling that some (many?) Canadians get when they watch him talk?  (I consider
this a valid point, I got creepy feelings when I saw Duke's picture in the
paper.  It got worse when he opened his mouth. :-)

Laura Carriere
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: areid@mary.fordham.edu (Darin Reid)
Subject: Personal SURVEY: U.S Presidents and Dates (two questions)
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 05:51:00 GMT

Hi,

      Since I finished high school I've always had two questions in my mind. 
The first concerns U.S. Presidents the second U.S. dates.  In fact I bet
everyone else has had these questions cross their mind.

     Well being a junior in college and discovering the Usenet has finally
given me a chance to ask these questions of everyone else.  Please send your
responses to me by E-mail as I don't regularly read the groups I'm posting this
to.

  The survey is simple.  Please send answers with reasons behind them i.e. no
cheerleading or slamming for one Pres over another.  If you choose one Pres
over another tell me why.  

   I'm posting this with a _world_ access because I'm _very_ interested in
non-U.S. views on the U.S.  So let me see some answers from everywhere
(especially British, French and Africans).

Please answer the following two question:

              1) Who do you think is the greatest/most important U.S.
                 President of all there have ever been.  Answers don't
                 have to be long but should have reasons (no so-so's the
                 greatest. stuff)

              2) What time in America's history (WHILE NOT AT WAR) do 
                 you think was/is it's most important.  This could be _any_
                 non-war time in U.S. history - 1780's, 1850's, Reconstruction
                 (the period after the U.S. Civil War), 1960's are a few
                 examples.

  _Most_ importantly, I am NOT a CIA operative!  I will not create a file with
names of the people who answer.  This is for my own personal consumption and
knowledge.  Like I said I've wondered how other people feel about these
questions for a long time.  And remember have fun at it.

Thanks in advance to all that answer,
- Darin

----
Fordham University
Internet:Areid@Mary.Fordham.Edu
Bitnet:Areid@Fordmulc
AT&Tnet:(212) 749-8187
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:17366 alt.activism:7381
From: robart@agora.uucp (Robert Barton)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: RON DANIELS (independent) FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:53:16 GMT
Organization: Organization


  Isn't this a little late for April Fools Day?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Champions of Welfare,T}@ }%Y&eJr Mary Rose Oakar
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:00:11 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

	Rep. Mary Rose Oakar, D-Ohio recently announced her intention to seek a
9th term.

	This despite her achieving the lofty "Dirty Double Dozen" worst-abusers
list for Rubbergate.

	She has had little to say about her bounced checks, and intends to run
on her record of "bringing federal money and projects to her western Cuyahoga
County district" and "hopes to continue the effort".

	Hmmm.  One does not have to wonder why state Democrats agreed to have
her district erased as one of the two congressional seats Ohio lost to
reapportionment.

Brett
===============================================================================
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                            CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Subject: Why do we all believe war is inevitable?
Reply-To: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 05:06:20 GMT



Is it because we've never had a lasting peace?  That is,

  a) It (achieving a lasting peace) has never been done before.
  b) THEREFORE, IT CANNOT BE DONE.

I think this is the general reasoning, which serves as a
psychological defense mechanism.  It allows people to maintain
their sense of pride in spite of the fact that they have given
up trying to solve the problem---even though it is ALWAYS INVALID. 
That is, the fact that something has never been done before
NEVER proves that it cannot be done. 

Of course, I don't fault anyone for giving up on the problem of
peace.  If you don't have the tools or the inclination to do a
job, then you shouldn't make the attempt.  A little more honesty,
though, would be in order.  When you don't know, admit it.  Don't
say it can't be done, without proof.
-- 
=======================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=======================
From: rinat@dirac.physics.sunsyb.edu (Rinat Kedem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Tax rate on poor > Tax rate on rich
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:01:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics, SUNY at Stony Brook

In article <1992Apr13.112412.928@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.163658.26179@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, weverka@spot.Colorado.EDU (Robert T. Weverka) writes:
>> 
>> Here is a graph of incremental tax rates for incomes from $0 to $150,000.
>> Poor people pay over 40% tax rate.  The current system in the USA is 
>> regressive.
>
>	If your definition of "poor" is 20-25K a year then your graph supports
>your statement.
>	However, this is in reality the lower end of the middle class.  Welcome
>to reality.  The middle class always gets nailed because that's where most of
>the tax revenue comes from.

Hey, give a voice to the voiceless.  We've heard enough about the "middle
class".  There actually exist poor people, like graduate students for example.
Give poor people credit for existing.  You seem to think for some reason
they don't count just because they aren't middle class.

>
>
>	You fail to mention that payments from social security are also indexed
>this way for payouts (the more you make the less you get).  SS is a pyramid
>scheme, of course the people paying into it are going to get burned.
>

Not really.  The SS code is an incredibly complicated piece of code.  For
example, did you know women are systematically discriminated against in this
code?  Their maximum benefits are lower than men's, they don't get benefits
if they earned much less than their husbands, and so on.  How does that fit
in with your description?  Not at all.
-- 
-rinat
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc