HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ACM022@Zeus.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Outed at my high school (anonymous post)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:57:01 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <uBP6iB6w164w@batpad.lgb.CA.US> mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US writes:

> He then proceeded to pull out a fanfold of paper, and began to read from
> a somewhat flirtatious e-mail message sent to me by an undergraduate
> in Chapel Hill, NC.  He explained that he couldn't allow such
> "vulgarity and profanity" on the school's computers.

This is awful. I'd kill. Barring that, I'd find a good lawyer-type civil-
rights group (ACLU? b'nai brith? I don't know a lot about legal matters)
and ask them if you'd be able to do something about this while preserving
your anonymity. What they did was totally unfair. Well, maybe not the
denying access to the modem, but...

> I was shocked, and stumbled out of the shop feeling very sick.  I
> actually had to make a pass by the bathroom :(.
> Here I had been spied on, humiliated, and outed!  The teachers, librar-
> rians, etc., didn't look at me the same way again.  Of course, word
> spread around, and things began to get difficult for me.

Did word get out to your classmates? Other teachers? Have any teachers/
faculty members been sympathetic/supportive? Do you think you could be
graded unfairly because of this? What has happened to you as a result
of being outed? There must be something you could do. This is disgusting.
Maybe a harrassment case? I dunno. Something's fishy, for sure.

> attending.  Oh, well.  I go to college in Chapel Hill, NC this fall--
> a rather open place.

That's good. Is it away from home? If so, great.

> (My parents are not supportive, to say the least.)

Do they know you're gay? Did the school tell them about this?

> out how to work the kill file yet).  Anyway my modem at home was an archaic
> 300-baud thing that wasn't Hayes compatible (or anything compatible for
> that matter; you had to dial manually), so I used the computers at school.

Can you get a better modem? Or have you lost all net access?

> What do you think?

Kill.

I just can't get over how unfair this is! BEH!!!

---
John Dorrance				** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **
ACM022@zeus.unomaha.edu
	You bring me to my knees while I'm scratching at the eyes
	Of a world I want to conquer and deliver and despise.
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Czech this out (was Re: outing the stars)
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:14:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr14.211407.11881
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Apr14.064237.11232@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Apr14.040411.10663@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
>(Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr14.014612.2737@macc.wisc.edu>
>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>>>>it's pronounced /Mine er/, but it has an "l" in it.
>
>>>Um, both the M and the L would be pronounced in Czech, /mlee'-nar/.
>
>>Is that ee a long [e] sound, as in "knee",
>
>Yes, approximately.


Wow, that means it rhymes with Neener-Neener!

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
(whose own name sounds like a seal barking or someone puking so he
oughtn't talk)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 05:50:43 GMT


Re: Madonna's Queer positive stance
bogus...

But she didn't let Sandra closet
herself in "Truth Or Dare"; this 
woman has been a revolving door
lesbian for years; I know it's 
not much, but it should count for 
something...

She's getting there.  She has 
lots more to loose from her
straight audience by putting
visible Dykes on film (if 
indeed she's still interested 
in them, see my earlier posts)
rather than the straight-appearing
bisexuals they watch in porn.

Which doesn't make it right that
she's lagging her feet, but in the
face of Jesse Helms or Donald
Wildmon (or even Guns n Roses, for
that matter) I'm willing to cut
her some slack.
-- 
"Imagine a war in which everyone won..."
Pet Shop Boys, "DJ Culture"
-----------------------------------------
Ward Chanley - bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dickson@nevada.edu (JON THUMIM)
Subject: Re: Auto-Fellatio (Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?)
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:59:44 GMT

In article <15APR92.10134640@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) wrote:
>>On the other hand, I've heard that it is a physical impossibility for
>>women (I tend to distrust such absolutes, though) but that one in five
>>men are capable of giving it to themselves.
>
>From a discussion I had with a number of friends years ago in college, the
>1 in 5 is about right, but amongst us all, only the Jewish men could do
>it while the non-Jews couldn't.  Coincidence?
>
Hell no!  We jews posses many a talent that you goyim can only hope to
emulate.

Jon "Stud O.C." Thumim
"My project is to learn something new.  When I do, I get to go home."


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Depressing Scumpits? Re: Regarding the NY/NJ CON Proposal
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 22:44:49 GMT

francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis) writes:

>To me, in comparison with Amsterdam, Berlin, ..., Hong Kong, Singapore, 
>and even Jeddah, New York is about as fascinating as an old scab. 

Well I guess you get a different perspective of a city if you grew
up there. Having grown up in Hong Kong and Singapore, I must say
they are some of the unfriendliest cities if you're queer. Very
fascinating to a visitor, but you don't want to hold a motss con
there (not that Jojo was suggesting that, of course).

>On the dirty and vaguely malaisaceous side
>Djakarta, Chicago, London, Mexico City, and definitely New York.

Actually I thought London is a much more pleasant place to live 
than Chicago (if you can afford it). I'm just comparing the fun
neighborhoods, clubs and cultural events, but isn't that all
that's important? :-)

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: John Haugh's Current Incarnation
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 01:14:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.145507.26660@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>I was struck the other day by his referring to himself as
>heterosexual.  We corresponded a bit that last time he was
>around, and I could swear he told me he was bisexual.

Might well have.  On soc.bi there is currently a thread regarding
people who tentatively identify as bisexual, but tend to shy away from
this label when confronted with Real Live Queerness: the origins,
effectively, of the bisexuality myths.  Haugh might be an example.  He
did refer not long ago to organizations in the Austin area for
"ex-homosexuals" or some other such tripe.

>Computing seems to gather *such* strange people together.
>Not any of *us* of course, but you know what I mean.

Are you insinuating that we're NOT strange, Jess?  Grrr....

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
From: francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Regarding the NY/NJ CON Proposal
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:18:15 GMT
Organization: IRCAM, Paris (France)

In article <1992Apr5.173814.14268@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.132130.25546@ircam.fr>, francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis)
>writes:
>|> Why not have the America.con in a "not super-queer significant city",
...
>|> Washington, D.C. Nashville. Santa Fe. Seattle. Vancouver.
>
>Because no matter what we'd do, we would not provide a "presence and diversion"
>for anyone, and even if we did, my interest is in having a con that I enjoy,
>not a foreign exchange program so the natives can see our strange and wondrous 
>customs.

Look, we all know .cons will focus on cities with or near a large
university, and as such inescapably have a certain amount of "kulcha";
that the diversions are not for "locals" as in "non-motss" locals, but
as in local motss participants. We're not talking about Murfreesburo,
Tennessee; Waco, Texas; Milpas, California; but cities of a particular
scale. If one drew a "Mason Dixon" line across the US, there has never
been a mention of a con south of it. Boston; San Francisco; Toronto;
Portland. The one mention of Atlanta met with shrieks and
hand-wringing.

>|> How many people have been to (raise hands:) New York; Toronto; San
>|> Francisco; Los Angeles; Dallas; Houston; Atlanta; Chicago; Montreal;
>|> do you want to go again, for a con? How many times have you been to
>|> one of these cities for a some sort of .con or vacation already?
>Many; two; a gazillion; many; two years of living hell; dozens; a dozen;
>dozens; several.  So?  I choose to return to places I enjoy and which have
>something to offer.

Well, some are comfortable with the familiar, and some seek new
diversions. I'm curious what Dallas is like now, since I last visited
around '92. I've heard all sorts of interesting things about Montreal.
My god, we're not talking about buying a house and becoming members of
the Kiwanis club, Gold-card entry to K-mart and everything.

I know it sounds naive, but, how do you know you won't enjoy a place,
after all, unless you visit it sometime?

>|> For all practical purposes anyway, the con is as fun as you make it in
>|> any city you go to - one can hear an opera, see a ballet, find a queer
>|> bookstore in any number of cities. Ya wanna do the same thing again?
>|> and again?

>Yep.  I go to share these and other experiences *with* motssketeers, not to
>sit around repeating net postings and looking at the trees.

I'm getting the idea that Portland is the west-coast equivalent of
"Lumberton" North Carolina a la "Blue Velvet". 
-- 
| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: Gay Dinosaurs!!
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:26:34 GMT

In <1992Apr11.021115.16802@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> dcf@po.CWRU.Edu (Donald C. Ferencz Jr) writes:


>	ABC, the network that brought you the infamous "thirtysomething"
>episode with pleasantly real gay characters, recently followed "Star
>Trek: The Next Generation" with a neat little allegory to homosexuality
>in the "sitcom" "Dinosaurs."

>	In a recent episode, Robbie (the teenage son) is embarrassed to
>admit that, unlike the rest of his family -- who are carnivores -- he
>might be -- GASP! -- an *herbivore*!  Earl (the father) laments that he
>should have taken him hunting more.  The show is replete with hilarious
>analogies...Robbie, in a dejected mood, finds himself hanging out with
>fellow herbivores in a little dive called "The Salad Bar"!  (I was on
>the floor with laughter.)

>	In the end, Earl admits that there might be all types of
>dinosaurs, and he'll love his children no matter what they are -- he
>lets his wife serve *both* meat and vegetables at dinner.

>	For me, this was every bit as, if not more, clever than the
>androgynous race thing in ST:TNG; besides, it was uproariously funny,
>and the ending was much more to my liking.  Unfortunately, "Dinosaurs"
>was recently moved to Friday nights, which is something like last rites
>for a sitcom.

>	-- Don


I *loved* this episode!  Particularly this snippet of dialogue:

Earl: Bigger eats smaller, it's dictated by the laws of nature!
Fran: The laws of nature also dictate that we protect our young,
	no matter what!

That and the "Give peas a chance" bit.

---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Deletions
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:17:28 GMT

gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith) wrote: 
->I don't see the economic fallout here. The easiest way to do what
->Frank wants would be to convert soc.motss into a moderated group. This
->is done all the time and does not entail any particular expense. 

of course, you've made the erroneous presumption that the time spent
by the moderator doing what needs to be done has no value.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: These Boots Weren't Made For Walking
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:05:46 GMT

In <bpqjtzf.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>As some of you may remember, one of my New Year's resolutions was to become
>more butch (another was to flirt more).

>I'm obviously beyond becoming innately butch, so I decided to go for
>exterior butch - boots, jeans, that sort of thing.  It turns out that
>Wrangler jeans fit me better than Levi's, even though Levi's are more
>politically correct, so I bought some.  I also started looking for some
>cowboy boots. 
> But you know what?  You don't walk in boots the way you walk in
>shoes.  I don't have the hang of it yet.  I feel like I'm going to fall
>over, and I probably look like someone who is trying to look butch, but not
>succeeding.

>Well, practice makes perfect.  What do you folks out there have to say
>about the proper way to walk in boots?

Heel-toe.  It's difficult (but not impossible) to tip-toe in boots. :-)
Swing from (and even with) the hips.  Pick up your feet unless you
like having your boots re-soled frequently.

---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
From: carlton@husc8.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Michael Nyman, Drowning by Numbers
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:28:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.CARLTON.92Apr7202833
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk's message of 7 Apr 92 19:09:53 GMT

In article <b2fhbxv1@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk
(the Crisco Kid) writes:

[ talking about Drowning by Numbers ]
> The bit that always cracks me (and the audiences) up is where we see
> Smut in his blood-soaked bed and he explains that he's just
> circumcised himelf with a pair of scissors - but he *did* sterilise
> them first :)

I'm not sure which part I liked best.  The game with the sheep and the
teacups was a riot, I thought.  Or the time when they were driving
along the road and ran into a pair of dead cows with numbers painted
upon their rumps and red paint marking the location.  Hangman's
cricket was funny, too, though on too large a scale to be the gem that
some of the other games were.

> On Nyman: I'm trying to get hold of as much of his music as
> possible.  If anyone has stuff that I haven't, I'd love to hear from
> them...

I can't say that I like him so much.  I liked his music okay the first
time I saw one of the movies, but it started to get a bit much even
then and after that it really started to pale.  I think it fits the
movies fairly well, but I do wish that it didn't all sound so
incredibly similar.

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

       Here I am at the flea market but nobody is buying my urine
       sample bottles..
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Regarding the NY/NJ CON Proposal
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 17:42:58 GMT


In article <j8j6re8@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff
Dauber) writes:

>Yes, but you are not being a cultural elitist.

If you'd said that about me, I'd probably be pissed, but I
bet anything it has a greater element of truth to it for me
than for Roger.  So I think it's a bit over the top on the
unfairness scale.  I thought it was not very useful for him
to speak of Portand in the terms he did, since the suite
makes clear he (mostly) meant *he* didn't like it much.  But
what the hell, apart from that, he's entitled to his
opinion, I think.

<> What does ISDN stand for, anyway?
<> It Still Does Nothing.
<> -- James A. Gaskin, "UNIX Today"
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Asimov and sexism
From: mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 09:16:52 PDT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kathryn Huxtable) writes:

> 
> I still haven't quite assimilated the news of his death.
> 

Referring to Asimov's demise, the inimitable CARASSO quipped:
"I guess Tomm Petty can shave his sideburns now."



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US -- cerritos.edu!batpad!mike
[] Long Beach, California
[] TNG Quote: "You were travelling in close formation at over 80,000 kph, only
[] 10 meters from Cadet Albert, and you didn't even know his orientation?!?"
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: IS OUTING ETHICAL?
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:50:41 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <farenebt.703531834@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) writes:
>aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>>Thank you for sharing.  We'll do exactly as you say now that we've seen
>>the light.
>In your attempt to be sarcastic you neglected to answer the question.

Some of us think he answered it just fine.  If you don't like it, why
don't you stand up and answer it?

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: Re: Not at all  Re: Con '92 Housing
Organization: University of Maryland
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:29:28 GMT

Mara Chibnik (mara@panix.com) wrote:
 
> [self-deprecating stuff]
> 
> Who's George?  Or should it be:  Whose George?

Honestly, ever since you laid eyes on
Mr. [Hot-Hirsute-Hung] Dyer, poor Greg
hasn't had a prayer.  [Neither will I
if I can't get his name right....]

> Ah, yes, but if it hadn't been for that typo you'd have been there
> at 5:45 to see that wondrous Turkish style delight I mentioned to you.

Yes, well, that *may* be unforgivable.

--jns  [and George is free to think what
        he wants about *that* slip.]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Czech this out (was Re: outing the stars)
Date: 14 Apr 92 06:42:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr14.064237.11232
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Apr14.040411.10663@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <1992Apr14.014612.2737@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>it's pronounced /Mine er/, but it has an "l" in it.

>>Um, both the M and the L would be pronounced in Czech, /mlee'-nar/.

>Are you sure about that, ie: are you an authority on Czech? 

I finished my course work for a PhD in Slavic Literatures, I
got an A on a paper (very boring) entitled, "The Morphology
of the Czech Verb," and I had two upper-level courses in
Czech literature, but no, I'm not an authority on Czech.

I'd claim to be an authority on only two things: the
harpsichord (and its music) and submarines.

>Is that ee a long [e] sound, as in "knee",

Yes, approximately.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Capping worthless threads
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:32:41 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) asks:
>What would "Sit on your hands" be in various languages?
>If Joe Chapman is still out there perhaps he can start things out in Latin?

                        ,                        ,          ,
In Irish: "Suigh ar do lamha" (singular) or "Suigi ar bhur lamha"
(plural).  Though I'm not Joe Chapman, I'd venture to translate the
singular into Latin as "Manibus tuis inside", the plural as "Manibus
vestribus insidete".

,
Eamonn McManibus
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Your Hair...
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 20:39:52 GMT

Robert Bernard:
>Who does your hair?

Why, myself of course, for the most part. For those tricky shaves around
the ponytail, two mirrors are very helpful. Gets cleaned up every few
months by helpful friends (or people I want to flirt with :-))

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Deletions
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 15:24:24 GMT


In article <56925@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com
(George Dalton Madison) writes:

>Perhaps, *IF* you know UNIX (GAG!).  Many people don't, and
>furthermore have an insufficient degree of masochism in their
>personalities to subject themselves to such a torture.

C'mon, George, even allowing for rhetorical flash, this is
wildly overstated.  As soc.motss's most relentless
unix-nixer, you've tilted this windmill mightily.  But the
actual fact is that Unix is not at all hard to use,
especially if you don't have to be involved with much in the
way of sysadmin tasks.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Music and Movies
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:32:28 GMT

> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
>I haven't seen any mention of _Howard's End_ here - I 
>saw it a while back and thought it wonderful.  
>Vanessa Redgrave gives an *incredible* performance,
>and the rest of the actors are top-notch.  
>Visually, it's stunning.  Highly recommended.

You haven't heard much because it takes a while for such
treasures to wend their way (by Pony Express, no doubt)
from New York City across Our Great Nation to appear on
our provincial silver screens.  I believe it opens here
in San Francisco (at the Bridge) this very evening,
displacing the delightful "Hear My Song"...

Can't wait!
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss