HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Helmets (again): Skiing Safety
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:24:15 GMT
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <1993Jan25.195644.23815@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1993Jan25.133323.28257@bmerh85.bnr.ca> paynter@bnr.ca
|> (Stuart Paynter) writes:
|> >A better solution would be have skiers take lessons from qualified instructors
|> >so they learn to ski in control and not to ski beyond their ability.
|> 
|> Now let me get this clarified. (Since this is the US and Canada talking here).
|> Are you suggesting a REQUIREMENT of lessons?
|> For instance, should certification of skiers be required?
|> 

Interesting thought, but no I don't believe in legislated lessons.  IMHO,
I think that you get more out of the sport by learning to do it properly.
I have seen lots of people who are taught by their friends improperly.  I
was a poor skier until I took lessons (I am no expert now but I do ski much
better.).  Common sense should dictate here (but....see last point)


|> I don't believe that the original poster would see this as a solution
|> or that it should nullify the requirement of personal safety gear of this
|> type.  Please clarify.
|> 
|> >Some simple common sense and consideration thrown in for good measure and that 
|> >should cut down on the number of collisions on the hill!
|> 
|> Common sense isn't so common.

Unfortunate, isn't it.

|> He was not talking people to people collisions.


-Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mhoyt@crchh47.BNR.CA (Michael Hoyt)
Subject: UTAH Beer ???
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 03:07:26 GMT
Reply-To: mhoyt@crchh47.BNR.CA (Michael Hoyt)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

I will hopefully be returning once more to SLC to ski little cottonwood
again this year.  I was there this December and bought some beer at
a grocery store.  I don't remember if it took twice as long to catch
a buzz but someone told me that UTAH beer is rated PG-13.  Something like
half the alcohol % of beer sold in most other states.

Is this right, Pussy beer?!?

Mike.
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Thursday, 28 Jan 1993 10:23:35 PST
From: <FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: WANTED: 185 OR 190 CM SKIS

THE PAIR OF 200 CM SKIS I BOUGHT ARE TOO LONG FOR ME.  IF ANYONE HAS
A PAIR OF 185 OR 190 CM SKIS FOR SALE (NO BINDINGS ARE NEEDED) POST OR
CALL ME (FRANK) AT 415-926-2296. THANKS
From: broder@src.dec.com (Andrei Broder)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Skiing: goggles, glasses and FOG!
Keywords: Help me!
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:30:45 GMT
Reply-To: broder@src.dec.com
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <%MikeW.18.0@canc.byu.edu>, %MikeW@canc.byu.edu (M.D. (Mike) Wieda) writes:

>  If anyone out there has a secret home remedy for anti-
> fog stuff, PLEASE, let me know.  I am at the mercy of the condensation 
> gods!

Yes. Get a pair of Smith turbo-goggles (with a built in fan).
Ridiculously expensive ($120?  - I got mine a couple of years ago) but
they work.  I heard that Uvex makes a similar model, maybe they are
cheaper.

-- Andrei
From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Info Needed: Selkirk Snowcat Skiing
Date: 28 Jan 93 07:44:22 GMT
Organization: Live from Oakland, California


	Howdy!
	
	I am looking for comments, opinions, and impressions
	of snowcat skiing in the Selkirk mountains of Canada.
	The company I am looking at is call Cat Powder Skiing
	out of Revelstoke, B.C.

	For those interested, they are having a *sale* for
	their 5 day packages at $1375 CDN.  After last years
	splurge heli-skiing, I'm jonesin' to go back but
	can't afford another heli-trip for another few years.

	So what do ya'all think?

	rizzi
-- 
"(Ronald Reagan is) so dumb that if you put his brains in a bee,
 it would fly backwards." - Molly Ivins, Texan political columnist.
============================= rizzi@netcom.com =============================
From: rickc@scotty.TEK.COM
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Skiing: goggles, glasses and FOG!
Keywords: Help me!
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:50:37 GMT
Reply-To: rickc@scotty.TEK.COM
Organization: WV

> 
> "D-Fog": diving mask de-fogger, bought at a SCUBA diving shop in Dallas,
> "Fog-X": by the makers of "Rain-X" for your car,
> "Fog Free": skiing specific anti-fog soloution bought in a backpacking/ski 
>             shop near Ft. Worth (Texas),
> Scott "No Fog Cloth": self explanatory,
> Spit: this seems to work for divers, but didn't for me!
> tooth-paste: Somewhere I heard that this works as a fog inhibitor, but I 
>              haven't tried it yet.


   I found some anti-fog stuff at a ski shop at Mt. Hood called "Cat Crap"
   (no joke! 8^)) it has so far did the job on my glasses, I also put it on 
   my goggles
From: calondis@meaddata.com (David Calondis)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Winter Park latest greatest update please!
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:33:52 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: iron.meaddata.com

I know these requests are all over the net but here's mine anyway.  We
leave Saturday via Amtrak from Indianapolis and will be on the slopes
first thing Monday morning!  I've read this week they have about a 4-5
foot base!  Where exactly is any extreme skiing done/had at Winter Park?
Double black diamonds?
Thanks!
-- 
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
|   David Calondis    | Opinions, comments, snide remarks are my own    |
|  Mead Data Central  |    and not that of MDC...                       |
|    P.O. Box 933     +-------------------------------------------------+
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | Work to eat, Eat to live,       __o       __o   |
+---------------------+    Live to bike,              _,\<,_    _,\<,_  |
|calondis@meaddata.com|       Bike to work!          (_)/ (_)  (_)/ (_) |    
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: hollow@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (John Hollow)
Subject: Re: Skiing: goggles, glasses and FOG!
Keywords: Help me!
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:21:54 GMT

In <1993Jan22.023253.9490@trl.oz.au> harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant) writes:

>A thin
>film of detergent will stop the fog, but I don't know how good it is
>optically.  The fog won't form on the detergent.  However, I don't use it
>'coz I don't wear glasses, so this is just hearsay.  Carrera ultrasight
>goggles are excellent, and can also be bought in glasses versions.


I second this.  I do wear glasses, and it can be a pain.  Some of my tips:

     *  I use an antifog solution applied each morning on spectacles.
        Brand in Australia is OPSM Cleaner and Anti-fog.  Unsure of
        composition - possibly just a detergent.

     *  I use Carrera Ultrasight.  Depending on ones' headshape, you may need
        good clearance to front of glasses.  My head is narrow, and with many
        goggles (e.g. Scot, and to lesser extent Carrera Everclear), the 
        wraparound shape of the goggle lens presses against the front
        hinge-part of the glasses.  This presses the glasses frame
        against the bridge of the nose, causing the nose mild pain, and
        fogging in the middle corners of the glasses lens (lens too close to
        sweaty skin).  Carrera Ultrasight are the most generous for this
        geometry for spacing that I have found - thus they suit both wide
        heads and the more troublesome narrow heads.

     *  Ventilation of the goggles seems to help (why else do the fan
        varieties work?).  On my older goggles (Scott), I cut away some of
        the foam plastic to increase the ventilation.  Pick a spot where
        windblown snow and rain won't cause problems - I cut away portions
        of the foam underneath the headstrap where it is attached to the
        side of the goggle
--John Hollow, Telecom Research Labs, PO Box 249, Clayton, Australia 3168
      j.hollow@trl.oz.au              VOICE : +613 253-6400  (03)253-6400
      psi%050523542100201::j.hollow   FAX   : +613 253-6664  (03)253-6664
X400: g=john s=hollow ou=trl o=telecom prmd=telecom006 admd=telememo c=au
Newsgroups: rec.skiing,misc.forsale
From: rvn@icd.teradyne.com (Rafael Vidaillet)
Subject: Nordica Boots forsale...
Reply-To: rvn@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:21:02 GMT

	I got a pair of Nordica's 757 27.5 (I'm a 9.5-10 USA and 42-42 european 
in street shoes).  They are black/purple (good looking boots), rear entry,
3 level flex-adjustment. Very good conditions.

	Payed $245 when new (comparable ones still go for that price).
	
	First $150 takes it, if not best offer over $100.. (you pay shipping)
	
	_RV

---
 ______________________________________________________________________
/                                                                      \
| Rafael Vidaillet--MS: H71|   Internet:  rvn@dewey.icd.teradyne.com   |
| Teradyne Inc.            |                              _            |
| 321 Harrison Ave.        |   Voice:   (617) 422-2422   |_) \  /      |
| Boston, Ma. 02118        |   Fax:     (617) 422-2837   | \  \/       |
\______________________________________________________________________/



Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: New Mexico snow/ski report
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:21:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.201634.25136@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> mueller@delta.cs.fsu.edu (Frank Mueller) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.192954.26660@sj.nec.com>, paul@hagar.tdd.sj.nec.com (Paul Gordon  x3856) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan21.173344.26340@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>> >dlawren@salsa.abq.bdm.com (David P. Lawrence) writes:
>> >>            Base('')       New(24hrs)      New
>> >>Taos          90              4             8 storm
>> >>Purgatory     85              6            26 week
>> >
>> >Something's funny here - I was in Purgatory last week, and they had a ski
>> >team up from Taos because (they told me) there was so little snow in Taos!
>> >
>> 
>>   Thats because New Mexican inches seem to be smaller than the CO variety!
>> 
>Have you seen the spot where they measure in Taos? It's left of the top of
>the Phoenix lift (the left-most lift on the mountain), on the way to Huntziger
>Bowl. It's also right below Katchina Peak and in some trees. If it snows, it
>will snow there. And twice at much. And it doesn't become packed powder at all.

Most ski areas report bases as unpacked snow depth.  Most ski areas also
report snow depth from some place in the trees above mid mountain.

>So, 90in there means about 60in on top slopes and at most 30in (incl. snow-
>making) on bottom slopes. Well, and then there are all these rocks which need
>about twice the snowcover than anything else...

Oh please.  I musta been dreaming when I spent Tuesday and Wednesday a few
weeks ago skiing over the 85 inch base, taking knee deep powder excursions.
There musta been over 100 inches on some of the upper slopes!  The Hunziker
chutes were great!

Ooop!  Nope!  It WAS a dream!  It does not snow at Taos.  When they report
90 inches, they mean 10 inches of crushed styrofoam.  Whatever you do,
do not ski in Taos!  It's a myth!

Steve
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Copper Mt. on 1/29
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:25:13 GMT
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: ISSC Boulder

To make up for that post, if anyone is going to be up in Summit County next
Friday and would like to take some turns with a few of us, I think we're
heading to Copper.  Let me know if you'd like to meet us.  Also, we'll probably
stop at BoJo's on the way back down...
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
Ski to live, live to ski                                           ISSC Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Helmets (again): Skiing Safety
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 21:54:24 GMT

In article <AfNLR5m00WB8BHI7IU@andrew.cmu.edu> "Harold S. Lessure"
<hl0t+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
	<I have the H book which I am ready to mail you..>
>OK, now I want to know the source of these statistics...I'd love to
>cite these on occasion..

I am looking a lot for this up for the r.b. FAQ and the r.climbing
FAQ (re: law suits).  For the stats, I am talking to the National
Park Service (I have a couple of documents for climbing fatalities
(easier to document than injures), several professional organization
safety committees, insurance companies (an ex-boss's husband works for
Fireman's Fund), a net.lawyer, a real judge, etc.  I have decided that
I have to stick to fatalities because of that.  This forces putting on
hold a film I am searching for within NBC......

>Seriosly folks, I've seen lots of references to injury stats...but
>no one cites sources...Anybody willing to oblige?
>
>Also think it'd be good for the FAQ!!

The problem is that most of these figures are off the top of people's heads.
They sit on individual accident reports and legal records, and I don't
have time to swim thru these.  The stuff is creeping long, it's a modest
priority.

Brought to you by the Agency who said that space shuttles had a 1:10000 chance
of blowing up.  Wonder how they determined that figure?......

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Opinions on New Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:34:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp-col.1k3lmcINN1lp
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcslb1.col.hp.com

eriks@lin.foa.se (Erik Svensson FOA2) INCORRECTLY writes:

> rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern) writes:
> 
> >> I'd like to hear any opinions from people who have spent time skiing
> >> the new Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots.  These are the new four buckle 
> >> front entry boots.  I've heard the 9.0 Equipe Racing is definitely not 
> >> for back seat drivers, but would like to hear any opinion on the 
> >> standard Equipe 9.0, especially in bumps.

> I've tried the 9.0 Equipe boot for a day. I liked it so and so. I had troubles
> finding the right size. My main complaint tho' is the insulation! There isn't 
> any, almost. The temps were down to -18 deg centigrade and I nearly froze my 
> feet off. For that reason alone, I'd never by a 9.0 Eq. I've never been
> so cold in my entire skiing career! 

First of all:  I DID NOT WRITE THE ABOVE STATEMENTS!!  I did post a 
followup to this fellows questions, but you removed my followup and left
my name associated with his questions.  If you can't get the attribution
correct, why not just remove it entirely (which is what I usually do, since
I don't really care who said what)?

Now to the subject:  My Salomon Equipe 8.0 boots are very warm!
I'm not sure what you're comparing them to, but compared to my old
Lange's the Salomons are toasty warm.  I doubt if they are any less
insulated than other popular boots on the market.

Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: hale@itd.nrl.navy.mil (Richard Hale)
Subject: Info on Steamboat Wanted
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:27:14 GMT

	My wife and I are going to Steamboat Springs with another family.
None of the group has ever been before.

I'm looking for information generally on restaurants (for the
evening or two without kids), good places on the mountain for
intermediate skiers, information on cross country skiing,
and anything else anyone thinks might be useful.

                  Thanks in advance,
																		Richard Hale

From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:00:07 GMT
Subject: rec.skiing FAQ 02/16 Alpine Equipment
Organization: Toyz R. Me
From: geoff@chemeng.ed.ac.uk (Geoff Ballinger)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Newsgroup for European skiing...
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:07:30 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Chemical Engineering Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: oich.chemeng.ed.ac.uk

KKEYTE@ESOC.BITNET (Karl Keyte) writes:
>Is anyone out there in a position to do something about getting a
>'rec.skiing.europe' newsgroup set-up?  How could I request this?
>Would any of you be interested?

	The procedure for setting up a new newsgroup (as detailed in one of
the regular news.announce.newusers postings) is for the proposer to post a
"call for discussion" (CFD) in news.groups (crossposted to relevent groups
but with followups to news.groups). Assuming sufficient interest is generated
the proposer takes the results of the discussion and produces the charter
for the new group. He then issues a "call for votes" (CFV). If he receives
sufficient votes within the required period then the group can be created.

	I would be interested in having a group for european skiing (to save me
having to wade through hundreds of posts about skiing in the USA) but I don't
think there would be sufficient traffic to warrent it,

							Geoff.
-- 
 Mr Geoff Ballinger,                                    Email: Geoff@Ed.Ac.Uk
 Department of Chemical Engineering,                    Phone: +44 31 650 8557
 Edinburgh University, The King's Buildings,            Fax:   +44 31 650 6551
 Mayfield Road, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH9 3JL.
From: yamauchi@zulu.mti.sgi.com (Alan Yamauchi)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Opinions on New Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:56:56 GMT
Reply-To: yamauchi@mips.com
Organization: Mips Technologies Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: zulu.mti.sgi.com

I'd like to hear any opinions from people who have spent time skiing
the new Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots.  These are the new four buckle 
front entry boots.  I've heard the 9.0 Equipe Racing is definitely not 
for back seat drivers, but would like to hear any opinion on the 
standard Equipe 9.0, especially in bumps.

 thanx,
      Alan Yamauchi
UUCP: 	{ames,prls,pyramid,decwrl}!sgi!mti!yamauchi  or  yamauchi@mti.sgi.com
DDD:  	415/390-4488
USPS: 	MIPS Technologies Inc. a subsidiary of Silicon Graphics Inc.
        2011 N. Shoreline Blv, m/s 10L-175, Mtn. View, CA.  94043
                  
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mr@delfin.com (Mark Rosenberg)
Subject: Re: Bay to Mammoth -- How Long?
Reply-To: mark@delfin.com
Organization: Delfin Systems, Sunnyvale CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:35:39 GMT

In article <lm8gcuINNjk4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
|> From article <1993Jan23.023450.21746@leland.Stanford.EDU>, by jrawles@leland.Stanford.EDU (jody rawles):
|> > Could someone tell me how long of a drive it is from
|> > the Bay Area (Palo Alto) to Mammoth Mt. Ski Resort.

|> 
|> I the warm half of the year, it is a 4.5 to 5 hour drive via Sonora
|> Pass.  That pass is closed now. If all roads are open, my next choice
|> would be CA 88 over Carson pass to CA 89, then 89 via Markleeville to
|> 395.  

89 to 395 is probably closed just past Markleeville. You can just stay
on 88 to get to 395.
-- 
Mark Rosenberg
internet:mark@delfin.com
phone: (408) 562-1126	fax: (408) 748-1140
snail: Delfin Systems, 3000 Patrick Henry Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95054-1814
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi)
Subject: Re: UTAH Beer ???
Organization: Live from Oakland, California
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:41:09 GMT

pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>>When I have 11,000 foot peaks, and champaign powder
>>snow and no ome skiing sundays (mormons mostly go to church), and easy 
>>access, well, I'm happy to drink the stuff.

>Some of you people make Salt Lake sound like an Amish community of 750,000
>people.  Where they all ski on Monday-Saturday then flock to the church on
>Sunday.
>
	If it keeps Alta uncrowded, then I'm all for
	the sterotype...then again, I don't live
	there most of the year.  :)

>I just wish there was a day of the week where I didn't have to dodge
>out-of-state clowns standing on top of trailheads wondering how to get down.

	I just blow by them snickering to myself...

	god, I'm can be soooo arrogant.

rizzi
-- 
"(Ronald Reagan is) so dumb that if you put his brains in a bee,
 it would fly backwards." - Molly Ivins, Texan political columnist.
============================= rizzi@netcom.com =============================
From: acooper@nuustak.csir.co.za (Antony Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Newsgroup for European skiing...
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:38:53 +0200
Organization: CSIR, South AFrica
NNTP-Posting-Host: nuustak.csir.co.za
X-Disclaimer: The opinions expressed below are purely personal
X-Disclaimer: and in no way represent the official view of CSIR.

Thus spake graaff@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (Hans de Graaff):

>In article <1993Jan26.015843.6220@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>2) start it under on the existing European hierarchies like de or sub or fr or
>>what ever the Swiss hierarchy is, or eur.
>The best option for this would be the eunet.* hierarchie, but I don't
>know about their rules for creating new groups.

A problem might be that it is not just Europeans who are interested in
discussing skiing in Europe, and the eunet.* news groups are not
necessarily well distributed outside of Europe. While I know that we
receive some of the eunet.* news groups, we do not receive them all.

Certainly, one could be forgiven for thinking that rec.skiing is just
about skiing in North America (but don't most news groups have a
North American bias?  :-), and this probably inhibits people from
posting on skiing in other parts of the world. However, in the grand
scheme of things on Usenet, the volume of postings on rec.skiing
would not be considered to be sufficient for a split (compare the
volume to rec.sport.cricket, for example!  :-).

For the record, snow skiing is almost non-existent in Southern Africa,
so it won't need its own news group!  :-(

Antony
--
Antony Cooper                                        | Voice: +27 12 841 4121
acooper@nuustak.csir.co.za                           | Fax:   +27 12 841 3037
INFOTEK, CSIR, Box 395, Pretoria, 0001, South Africa | ICBM:   25 45S  28 16E
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: aa382@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Sira)
Subject: Re: Red Mountain, Canada
Reply-To: aa382@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Sira)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:47:17 GMT


In a previous article, John_McKercher@mindlink.bc.ca (John McKercher) says:

>Well...one run is listed as a 5 black diamond run (called Wherever!
>- You're Lost), two are four black diamond runs and one is a three

I don't think the 5-diamond thing is meant to refer to a specific run;
rather, it's anywhere on the mountain where you don't see a trail
marker B-).

I don't know that I like the idea of 3 and 4 diamond designations...
goes back to the ancient argument over double-blacks, I suppose.

Presumably, anything that _really_ deserves 4 diamonds shouldn't be on the
trail map...

-- 
Marc Sira                    |
toh@micor.ocunix.on.ca       |  "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar!"
aa382@freenet.carleton.ca    '