HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vincent@reg.triumf.ca (pete)
Subject: Re: What is the speed of light measured from?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: dept. of theophysics and cosmogyny
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:18:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.173411.13396@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, 
wa2ise@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.f.casey) writes...
>Makes you wonder how the "particle" of light "knows" how fast or slow to
>speed up by to be travelling at the -speed o' light- at or near the
>local frame of reference.  Does it "feel" the local gravity, or something?
> 

What you have to understand is that c is not just a velocity.
The way this universe is constructed, it's like a point that
time and space both pivot on. You could say that c is infinitely
fast, for anything travelling at it, it's just that the geometry
- in fact the _logic_  - of the universe requires that it not
be seen as infinitely fast by other observers. For instance,
if you board some wonderful rocket, which can sustain constant
acceleration ( in your frame of reference ) and commence 
accelerating, it will seem to you that you just keep getting
faster and faster, and you pass c without incident. The only
catch is that in the rest of the universe you travel through,
time seems to be going by faster and faster relative to yourself,
such that to observers in other frames, your velocity never
quite reaches c. They also see your time slowing down, so they
can understand why you might think yourself going faster than
c ( for simplicity I've left out all the interesting details
of how times can be compared between reference frames).

    Now for light, and anything else travelling at c, duration
of time has slowed to 0 as seen from any other reference frame,
so this can be seen as equivalent to travelling infinitely
fast. This sort of solves the problem that led Einstein to
relativity in the first place - how, if one were in the frame of 
reference travelling with light, and observed the (now stationary)
electromagnetic fields which comprise it, one would see 
the EM fields vary in amplitude periodically
in space, which according to Maxwell's equations shouldn't
be possible without electric charges at the local maxima.
The solution is that in relativity, this frame of reference
is not well defined, and it occupies no time, so it's
never really there to contradict Maxwell. Thus light always
knows how fast to go: as fast as possible.
    The moral of the story is that the world is not at all
as it seems, and nothing like our naive Aristotelian/Newtonian
intuitions.
========================================================================
Wait until time is fully dilated                          Pete Vincent
before releasing tangent bundle...

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: fils@iastate.edu (Douglas R Fils)
Subject: Economics of light gas guns
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:06:06 GMT

sci space,

	The recent issue of _Aviation Week and Space Technology_ has a
report
on the light gas gun and its possible use for sending payload to LEO and to 
the Moon (with added boosters).

My question concerns the economic aspects of a light gas gun capable of
placing 2000 Kg (Shuttle ~ 30,000 Kg to 185 Km) to LEO.  I wonder what 
use such a project has and its reception by the space market.  The main
point of discussion in a light gas gun would seem to be the high
acceleration
the payload would have to undergo when being launched to orbit.  

-Would a significant amount of support payload for a manned orbital facility
be able (or made able) to take the high acceleration? (Water, food, mail,
clothes...)

-Small satellites are becoming popular.  Not addressing if this enthusiasm
will continue, can small satellites that can be launched by light gas guns
be manufactured with current or foreseen technology?

-Are the friction problems while traveling through the atmosphere solved
or solvable and are there limits to the diameter of -shell- that light
gas can launch?  I seem to recall the report saying that larger shells
are easier to launch than small ones from a friction standpoint.  What
is the current understanding of dimension (of shell) to feasibility with 
light gas guns?

-What is $/Kg comparison to the projected DC-X?

-- 
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Solar Sailers
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:30:50 GMT

Also note that the CIS is flying a solar sail deployment experiment  
near MIR very soon. It will use centrifugal deployment techniques and  
is not a flight test. After the test it will be gotten rid of by  
letting it reenter. Check recent AW&ST for details.
From: Dave.Beaujean@davespc.mi.org (Dave Beaujean)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Mars Pictures request
Date: 30 Aug 92 06:13:00 GMT

Hi All!

I am looking for picture of Mars which would let me become
familiar with Mars before the mapping project gets going.
I am especially interested in the "Face on Mars" area which
I have only heard mentioned before. I know there are
bazillions of gifs on ames and spacelink, but I was wondering
if there is a specific area where these type of pictures may
be located at. Any help would really be appreciated!!!

Dave (New father of a future space traveler!!!)
From: jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Another Shuttle Tank Reuse Idea, From NASA
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:57:57 GMT

henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <15292@ksr.com> jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods) writes:
>>...hydrogen tank inside would be removed, leaving the oxygen tank and
>>intertank structures, to which would be added living quarters,
>>instrumentation, an airlock, and small thrusters and fuel tanks...
>Small correction... I doubt it really said that... because there is
>no hydrogen tank "inside".  There is one, 1, 00001, layer of metal
>between the liquid hydrogen and the outside world.  (There is some
>spray-on insulation on the outside of the metal.)  The tank wall
>and the outer shell are one and the same.  If you cut away the
>hydrogen tank, you're cutting away roughly the lower two-thirds
>of the ET.  Still might be a sensible idea, although it seems a
>shame to throw away most of the internal volume (the oxygen tank
>is much smaller).

I wish my copy weren't at home so I could check for sure, but I'm pretty
sure this is exactly what they do.  I suspect that the concern is where one
attaches the engines; if you attach them to the nice, sturdy intertank
structures (as the diagram indicated) you either have to fire them through 
a tank or get the tank out of the way :-).  The LOX tank is probably sturdier
and hence more suitable for keeping.
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke)
Subject: Re: With telepresence, who needs people in Earth orbit?
Organization: University of Central Florida
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:21:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.193908.25701@clipper.ingr.com> arnold@clipper.ingr.com  
(Roger Arnold) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.123432.16321@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)  
writes:

> Most of the objections to teleoperation that people raise, or the
> problems that they posit as standing in the way, are easily avoided.
> It's absurd to tie teloperation in low earth orbit to a communication
> path involving two round trips to Clark orbit.  Build a necklace of
> co-orbiting microsats to relay signals from the facility to whichever
> satellite is currently in position to downlink.  It's easiest if the
> orbit is equatorial, and so what if that means using Pegasus or Ariane
> for launches?  

Easier still, use the Motorola Iridium constellation of 77
satellites for teleoperation.  Iridium should work just as
well for LEO as for "cellular phones" on the ground.

--
Thomas Clarke
Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL
12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826
(407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu
Xref: sparky sci.space:12388 news.answers:2751
From: bill.edwards@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: soviet rovers on mars
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:31:42 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

JD>They also had a Soyuz return capsule.  I would hate to spend a year
JD>in micro-gravity and then ride back in that rascal.  It didn't look

I read in the UK magazine Flight International that NASA were
considering using the Soyuz decent capsule as an escape system
on the Freedom space station.

JD>very comfortable.  It is a big improvement over the Vostok return
JD>capsule however.  I never knew that the hatch was blown at 22,000 ft
JD>and the cosmonaut jumped out. Sheeeesh.

He/She was shot out on an ejector seat.  The Soviets maintained for
many years that Gagarin did not eject - something to do do with claiming
the record - but later, it is reported, admitted he did.

Bill ~ Tue ~ 01-09-92 ~
---
 ~ DeLuxe}/386 1.25 #9224 ~ 
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
From: LUNAZZI@BOIFCC.CINECA.IT
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: space digest 156 troncated
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:13:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtztJ3.Ew7.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: [via International Space University]
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

Date sent:  4-SEP-1992 21:12:57

I receive space digest 156 troncated. This is the end of the digest:

>        It was a very successful test of this probe design.  At 225-plus
>    days, ZOND 3 was also the longest-surviving Soviet lunar or planetary
>    probe to date, beating the previous record holder, MARS 1, by almost
>    three months.  Ironically, its Venus-bound sister probes did not fare
>    as well.  VENERA 2, launched on November 12, which carried the same
>    instruments as ZOND 3, failed just as it was to perform its photo-
>    graphing session of Venus on February 27, 1966, after a flight of
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 156
>------------------------------

Please, would you remail to me the article "THE GREAT MOON RACE: THE LONG ROAD
TO SUCCESS" ?

Thanks
Mauro


|===================================|    /\
|Mauro Andrea Cremonini (IW4BOX)    |   //\\
|Dept. Organic Chemistry            |  ///\\\
|University, Bologna, ITALY         |  \\\///
|e-mail lunazzi@boifcc.cineca.it    |   \\//
|===================================|    \/
Xref: sparky sci.space:12266 sci.astro:9278
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
Subject: Mars Observer Update - 08/27/92 (Launch has been postponed)
Keywords: Mars Observer, JPL, KSC
Date: 28 Aug 92 07:47:21 GMT
Reply-To: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Forwarded from Glenn Cunningham, Mars Observer Deputy Project Manager

                          MARS OBSERVER
                 DAILY ACTIVITIES STATUS REPORT
                            FROM THE
      KENNEDY SPACE CENTER/CAPE CANAVERAL AIR FORCE STATION

                      Launch Minus 20 Days

Date of report:     8-27-92        Time of report:     6:00 pm EDT

                [There was no report on 8-26-92]

Two evenings ago, on Tuesday, August 25th, a significant amount of
debris was observed on the nadir panel surfaces of the spacecraft
through the access port in the side of the payload fairing near the
MOLA (Mars Observer Laser Altimeter).  Subsequent investigation also
found debris on the TOS (Transfer Orbit Stage).  A series of
investigative teams have been established to: 1) identify the constituents,
size and distribution of the debris, 2) identify and correct the source
of the debris, 3) assess the mission impacts, and 4) define the cleaning
plans.  These activities involve all members of the project community
from the science instrument people, spacecraft, TOS and to Titan, and
including our KSC support partners.

Investigation of these items is far from complete.  The exact
source of the contaminating debris has not been firmly established.
The contamination may have been introduced into the fairing when a
dry nitrogen purge was placed on the spacecraft as part of the
securing the payload fairing air conditioning for Hurricane Andrew
last Sunday morning.

In addition to this anomaly, TOS had difficulty turning themselves
off during a readiness test last night.  Trouble shooting is
underway on that issue at this time.  The spacecraft is implicated
in this problem.

As a result of these two problems, the Launch Day Dress Rehearsal,
scheduled for Friday, was canceled.

Based on the evidence of the severity of the debris contamination
problem, a decision was made to removed the encapsulated spacecraft
from the Titan and return it to the PHSF (Payload Hazardous Support
Facility) immediately.  The current plan, somewhat contingent on the
conclusion of TOS's trouble shooting, is the transport back to the
PHSF on Friday night.  Access to the spacecraft would them be available
Sunday morning.

The amount of time required to clean the spacecraft and the TOS is
unknown.  The launch has been postponed, and no new launch
readiness date has been established.

A decision relative to holding or postponing the Spacecraft Launch
Readiness Review will be announced tomorrow, Friday.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Optimists live longer
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | than pessimists.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     |
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Laser distance record?
Date: 3 Sep 1992 20:11:59 GMT
Organization: sio
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu



>In article <26059@dog.ee.lbl.gov> sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
>>In article <rabjab.77.0@golem.ucsd.edu>, rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)  
>writes...
>>>To date, what is the farthest that a laser has been seen from?
>>> 
>>>I recall a successful experiment sending a laser beam from the
>>>Earth to a Surveyor lander on the Moon in the sixties.  That would
>>>make the current record approx. 384,400 km?
>>
>>If you allow masers, then the answer is best measured in parsecs.  Oh... you
>>want man-made lasers.  Never mind.
>>

>I seem to recall reading something about natural lasers in the atmoshere 
> of Venus??????

Gee, I thought my question was clearly stated :-(.

Manmade transmitter, manmade receiver, confirmation of receipt,
of a Laser (optical maser) signal.  What is the maximum confirmed
link distance of said system?

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
From: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: What happened to Viking?
Date: 27 Aug 92 08:49:47 EDT
Reply-To: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp
In-reply-to: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

In article <BtGMGs.Dw6@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.222739.19157@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>[someone else asked]
>>>What happened the Viking spacecraft?  
>>>[...]
>>>I heard through the grapevine that someone sent a bogus signal to it which  
>>>turned the antenna away from Earth, resulting in LOS.

[concerning the Viking 1 lander...]
>		       What finally happened was that a routine contact
>to pick up recent weather data couldn't get an answer from the lander,
>all attempts to reach it failed, and it was eventually declared dead.
>I believe it *was* eventually established that this was due to a command
>error that fouled up antenna pointing, although this was not obvious at
>the time.

This is all from my [sometimes faulty] memory, but I recall reading that the
error was in reprogramming the lander's computer.  A patch was loaded into an
area of memory which was thought to have been used only during the landing
portion of the flight.  As it turned out, a previously loaded patch had come up
with some clever way of using this memory, and obliterating it led to the loss
of signal.
--
Chris Jones    clj@ksr.com
From: fcrary@ocf.berkeley.edu (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Magnetic Sail
Date: 29 Aug 1992 16:46:13 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug29.101135.16007@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
>Unfortunately, I get the impression they badly miscalculated the
>tension on the loop, which renders the whole idea much less interesting,
>as the loop would have to be much more massive.

Actually, he didn't calculate the loop tension at all. (At least
not in the pre-print of the technical paper I have. 

He caluclated a mass based on the critical current density and mass
density of the superconductor, and the loop current:

M = 2pi*RAp = 2pi*RIp/J

Where R is the sail radius, A is the cross sectional area of the loop, 
p is the mass density of the material, I is the maximum loop current
and J is the critial current density of the superconductor.

Zubrin seems to simply assume the tension on the loop will be low.

A more serious problem is his use of high temperaature superconductors:
He assumes nitrogen-temereature superconductors with properties like
those of helium-temereature ones. We don't have anything like that at 
the moment, and the people working in the field have been promising
them "soon" since high temperature superconductors were first dicsovered
6 years ago.

						      Frank Crary
						      CU Boulder

(By the way, does anyone know how to get a usenet feed here at
Boulder? My new account is on pprince, which doesn't seem to accept
news commands. Remote logins to my old Berkeley account are getting to
be a pain...)
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Saturn class (Was: SPS feasibility and other space
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:00:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Aug26.170006.8440
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug25.210314.14787@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <BtJutG.CA3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>
>>I think Nick is right
>>in saying that HLVs have no commercial relevance in this decade.
>
>SS Freedom construction and supply IS a viable commercial market for 
>HLVs this decade.                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Really? And I thought Fred was a *government* project. Wonders will
never cease.

A market requires buyers and sellers. I don't see either in this
case. NASA is going to use it's in house Shuttle that it already
owns and has already paid for to build and supply Fred.

Gary
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Summary: Econut hysteria.
Date: 4 Sep 1992 16:06:21 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

In article <BARRY.92Sep3204008@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu> barry@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu (Barry Kort) writes:
>A colleague of mine, who claims to be knowledgeable in such matters

Well, he's not.

>tells me:
>
>        A fairly large team <at NASA>, is planning the terraforming
>        of Mars, which involves destroying the planet as we know it.

We hardly "know" Mars.

>        Mars will be rasied 20 degrees C.  And with minimal study of
>        that planet it becomes clear what chain of events will occur.
Huh?
>        After this chain Mars will be 'polluted' with earth-based
>        micro-organisms and rugged plant life.
>
>Can anyone confirm, deny, or refute the above, or otherwise
>elaborate on NASA's plans with respect to Mars?

As far as I know, NASA only has two funded Mars spacecraft projects.
Mars Observer is to be launched in the next 6 weeks to orbit Mars, take
pictures, watch the weather, etc. No landing will take place. NASA is
also involved with the joint XSSR/Russian/French missions to land on
Mars in 1994/96 timeframe. This includes use of Mars Observer to relay
data from the landers.

There is a study on Goldin's desk that proposes to land a number of
small weather stations on Mars to get a better picture of the global
weather and climate, called MESUR. There have been studies for a sample
return mission that would include a rover or two. This is as far along
as some prototype/technology testbeds being built at JPL and
Carnegie-Mellon U. This may lead to a project start.

The probable origin of this rumor is a book by a contractor at
JSC (Jim Oberg) on how to terraform Mars. There have also been a few
what-if type papers done by the NASA and planetary science community
following up on this. I know of no "fairly large team" working on this
with NASA money.  In fact, a big chunk of the SEI support staff at JSC
(19 contactors) get pink slips in the next week, due to lack of FY 93
money. This sounds like more wild rumors started by ecofreaks to show
how evil NASA and the Government are.



-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "No the game never ends when your whole
|       world depends on the turn of a friendly card"
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Saturn class (Was: SPS feasibility and other space
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:03:14 GMT

In article <BtJutG.CA3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:

>I think Nick is right
>in saying that HLVs have no commercial relevance in this decade.

SS Freedom construction and supply IS a viable commercial market for 
HLVs this decade.

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------241 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Re: Venus orbiters
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 11:55:14 GMT

In article <6wZ5PB7w164w@curlie.UUCP>, thierry@curlie.UUCP (Thierry Lach   ) writes...
>baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes:
> 
>> In article <rabjab.39.0@golem.ucsd.edu>, rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof) w
>> >Is the Pioneer Venus orbiter still functioning?  
>> 
>> Yup, but it is running out of propellent and is due to burn up in the
>> atmosphere of Venus this December.
>> 
>Will magellan be in any position to gather data from the burn-up?

Considering Magellan only has a radar mapper and an altimeter as its only
science instruments, it is not really equipped to observe a burn-up of
a Pioneer Venus.  Interestingly enough, two years ago Pioneer Venus made an
attempt to image Magellan as it was executing its burn for Venus orbit
insertion, but that turned out unsuccessful.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Optimists live longer
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | than pessimists.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | 

Newsgroups: sci.space