From: jrr@nsc.nsc.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: chauvinistic Posts
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:24:04 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <HARKCOM.92Aug17164922@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.203626.9230@u.washington.edu> jcr@milton.u.washington.edu
>   (Mr. EuStress) writes:
>
> =}Alton Harkcom writes:
> =}> It depends.  If he took the time to find a woman that will allow
> =}> him that choice then yes he does.  If he didn't and ended up with a
> =}> woman who refuses an abortion then he must face up to his responsibility.
> =}
> =} That's it -- blame the man for picking the wrong woman.
>
>   If the man picked the wrong woman then he deserves the blame for it...
>
...
>
> =} I don't suppose that Alton thinks she has a mind 
> =} of her own -- one that can change.
>
>   To the contrary.  And as I explained in email if she claimed that she
>would get an abortion before sex but changed her mind later then she
>should be entitled to nothing from the man.

I'm confused.  You say that... 

      If he didn't (pick the right woman) and ended up with a woman who
      refuses an abortion then he must face up to his responsibility.

But then, in this post, you say (see above)...

      "if she claimed that she would get an abortion before sex but changed
      her mind later then she should be entitled to nothing from the man".

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??  The effect is the *same*!

>   I have not claimed to be against "Fair Male Choice" [whether that
>is the same as Equal Male Choice is left open to debate] I have only
>claimed to be against those who made the wrong choice and don't want
>to face up to the results.

Boy, now I'm REALLY confused.  What, pray tell, is the difference between
a woman who won't get an abortion and one who won't?  Regardless of any
pre-existing agreements or lack of same?  If she agreed before sex that
she would get one and then refuses after she gets pregnant, or if she
didn't say one way or the other before sex and still refuses after she
gets pregnant, why, oh WHY, do you make a distinction that says the
man made a "wrong choice"?  In *either* case he made the "wrong" choice.
You say "if he took the time to find a woman who will allow him that
choice" then he's somehow better or more deserving than somebody who
didn't find a woman who would "allow" (ugh) him that choice - i.e.,
"If he didn't and ended up with a woman who refuses an abortion then he
must face up to his responsibility".  Or even if he DID take the time to
find a woman who would "allow" him that choice, but then changed her mind...
in EITHER case he's ended up with a woman who "refuses an abortion".

Your support of "Fair/Equal Male Choice" and rejection of those men who
made the "wrong choice" and therefore don't want to "face up to the results"
is inconsistent.  While the women continue to have the right to abort,
adopt out, or keep the child, unilaterally, and the men basically don't have
a similar right to make choices, there is NO "Fair/Equal Male Choice".


Jerry Roe		National Congress for Men
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			National Council for Children's Rights
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr