From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: TANGENT Re: Which music amoral??
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:23:28 GMT

Once again I'm straying far from the realms of the r.m.christian charter,
so I've put the all-purpose TANGENT header in place.

In article <1992Aug27.153551.3372@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>Andy Whitman writes:
>>Yup, murder is bad.  Of course, the point applies to both sides -
>>black or white, those who wear a badge and those who don't.
>
>I am ever so glad we are agreed here.
>
>>the point Ice T is making in the song:  you harrass me, hound me,
>>throw me in jail for no reason, and you better watch out, 'cause
>>the next time you try it I'm going to kill you.
>
>You feel that this is his point (or was it just to make $$$?)

That's the point of the lyrics.  I don't know how Ice T could have
expressed the point any more bluntly.  As far as other motivations -
desire to make big bucks, impress his girlfriend, win fame, glory,
notoriety - I don't know.  Do you?  But I'm curious why you would
single out this particular song as an example of crass money-making.
Inflammatory political statements don't exactly have a great
track record of reaching the top of the charts, you know.

>>Ice T has the right to make the statement, and I think that other
>>people have the right to hear it and to make up their own minds
>>about it without having the song pulled from the album because
>>some people are offended by it. 
>
>First, a reminder of my original note's position.  Having not been
>in a record store for years, I was surprised at the violence.  Not
>just Ice T, but also Ice T.  I don't hear you defending megadeth or
>whatever the name of the group with all the iron crosses and swastikas
>on the cover, but I assume you wish to champion their rights as well?

I support their right to express their beliefs without the fear or
threat of censorship.  You bet I do.  But that's a far different
thing than agreeing with what they're saying.

>Well I didn't post about their rights, I talked about my surprise, shock
>and horror and for me, I am not giving any of them or their record companies
>one more dollar.  They can put that trash on the shelves till they get
>tossed in the lake of fire, but I am NOT supporting them.  My right
>is to spend my consumer $$$ to support christian musicians.  My right
>is to own and play spiritually uplifting music. 

Hey, I agree with you.  You saw music that you deemed to be offensive,
and you chose not to buy it.  Good for you.  And I'm simply stating
that other people should be allowed to make that choice too.  When
Time Warner Records pulled "Cop Killer" off the album, people
were no longer given that choice.  And that scares me.

Like it or not, we live in a pluralistic society where every conceivable 
viewpoint and world view has been represented in books, films, and albums.  
Christianity is just one of many world views competing for the public's 
attention.  I happen to believe it's true, and so do you.  But there
are plenty of people out there who *don't* believe it's true, and
who find the central tenets of the faith to be deeply offensive.  
And I fear the day may be coming when special interest groups
dictate that Christian books, movies, and albums should be removed
from the shelves because the Christian belief system offends their 
sensibilities.  I don't know that it *will* happen.  But there's
certainly precedent for it, isn't there?  Time Warner did a great
job of seeing to that.

All I'm saying is that in the realm of entertainment people should
be allowed to choose.  These are obviously difficult issues, and
they get particularly thorny when you toss in unresricted access
media like television and radio, and tax-funded grants and 
foundations for the arts.  But in the arena of entertainment
products (books, films, albums) the issue seems considerably
more straightforward to me:  if you don't like it, don't buy it.
It's simple, really.  That was precisely the choice you made at
the record store, and I wholeheartedly support your right to 
make that choice.  

>Now I know this is a bit corny, but I am really interested in hearing
>your answer.  How would you feel if Jesus was leafing through your
>CD collection and pulled out this Ice T CD? (or any other by any other
>group or artist which explictly advocates sex, drugs, violence)

I don't buy CDs that explicitly advocate sex outside of marriage,
drug use, or violence.  I don't buy them for the same reason you
don't buy them - they offend my beliefs as a Christian.  You seem
to think I have a warm spot in my heart for Ice T.  I don't.  I
disagree with what he says.  And I support his right to make
disagreeable statements and to offend me.  

>>I think Time Warner ought to be ashamed for their cowardly reaction
>They aren't cowards!!!!!  They simply feel that they have made all the
>$$$ off that issue they can without suffering undue negative consequences.
>Ice T may or may not have a heartfelt political position on this, but
>Time Warner has no heart, just a bottom line.

I have no doubt that Time Warner is only concerned with the bottom
line.  And I'm sure that the TW executives now feel that they have
a cleaner, safer, more profitable album on their hands.  But here's
a little twist in the plot line:  I had no qualms about signing
a petition last week agreeing to boycott future Time Warner
products unless "Cop Killer" was re-released on the album.  There
were a few hundred other signatures as well.  I'm dead serious
about what I agreed to.  I don't like the PC gestapo dictating to
me what I should or should not listen to.  I say screw 'em.  This
bottom line game is a two-edged sword. 

>>And I think Americans ought to be pretty
>>frightened at the direction this country is turning with regard
>>to individual rights and freedom of speech.
>
>I truly am frightened at the direction of the country, I guess I just
>see different trends than you do.  I think religious freedom and privilege
>is degrading faster than individual freedoms.  Let me ask you this,
>what if Ice Ts (or another "artist`s") next big hit is "schoolteacher killer"
>do you still support their right?  Baby killer?  Christian killer?

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Any other questions?  Naturally, I also reserve the
right to deem such material deeply offensive and to not support
it with my wallet.  But let me also say that if you make the 
determination that a particular viewpoint is so offensive that 
its very existence should be suppressed, don't be too surprised
if they come for you next.  Last time it was Auschwitz and Dachau
and Treblinka.  This time it will be a kinder, gentler fascism.  

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian