HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dnb@meshugge.media.mit.edu (David N. Blank-Edelman)
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Organization: M.I.T. Media Laboratory
	<1992Sep10.201331.2126@mips2.ma30.bull.com>
	<1992Sep10.214748.26806@osf.org> <CKD.92Sep11004230@loiosh.eff.org>
	<SPIKE.92Sep14140942@coke.std.com>
	<DNB.92Sep14183130@meshugge.media.mit.edu>
	<SPIKE.92Sep15115936@coke.std.com>
Distribution: ne
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:18:34 GMT

>       But let's go the other way.  Say good information could be
> gathered about your diet, drinking, and smoking habits.  Would it be
> wrong for the insurance company to charge you based on their risk?

Good question. Perhaps not, assuming that I authorized the collection
and use of the data beforehand (similar to the medical release your
doctor has to get before she talks with another doctor about you).
Unfortunately, the same sort of legal protection which binds medical
data transfer doesn't extend to other realms of personal data.

However, I assert that getting good data is high near impossible
because of all the factors involved.  
       Peace,
           dNb
--

 David N. Blank-Edelman              o/    \  /    \ /     /      \o   
 M.I.T. Media Laboratory            /#      ##o     #     o##      #\
 E15-473F, (617) 253-2169           / \    /  \    /o\    / |\    / \
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Looking for Yale '90
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:24:07 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@acs.bu.edu

Hello once again and thanks to all who have helped me earlier

I am looking for the whereabouts of Sarah Roff who was a History major 
at Yale. She graduated in '90 if you have any info please contact me

REgards
Neil Schier
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: zippy@cs.brandeis.edu (Patrick Tufts)
Subject: Union Trust in CT - no ATM fees
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: ne
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:53:36 GMT

I'd like to recommend Union Trust of Connecticut.  As long as you
maintain a minimum checking balance ($400, I believe), *all* ATM use
is free.  Yankee 24, Cirrus, NYCE, and one other.  Make 20
withdrawals on the East Podunk Credit Union's ATM for all they care.
It's still free.

They have branches in Hartford, Danbury, Southbury - all convenient to
I-84.  You can also deposit checks by mail.

--Pat

Side note: while out in Salt Lake City, I found an ATM that would
withdraw a $1 user fee directly from your account!  At least they 
had a warning to that effect on the machine.
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 8 Sep 1992 19:12:14 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <6217@transfer.stratus.com> kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
>I intend to keep reserve credit.  I will probably not use the
>Express-Check card.  I imaging that it will not be a different card
>than the ATM card.  If it were, I`d just throw it away (destroying

The Xpress Check card replaces your Xpress 24 card.  The difference is that
it has a MasterCard logo in the corner, so that anyplace that accepts
MasterCard will accept it.  But when you use it in an ATM, it acts like an
Xpress 24 card.

You only get it if you ask for it, so I'm not sure why you'd get it and
then throw it away.

-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu (John-Marc Chandonia, , , )
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Privacy and POS (Re: Speaking of ATMs)
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:20:15 GMT
Reply-To: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu
Distribution: ne
Originator: chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu

ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>      I don't know what we should do to improve privacy in this
> country, but we need to do something. Until then, ATMs are the main
> users of my plastic.

Aha, but do you regularly get money out of that ATM that's right
next to Martin's Liquors?  How about the one across the street from
Toys R Us?  If you're really concerned about privacy, you'd have to
use the machines right in the bank itself.

It would seem to make sense to pass laws restricting the type of
information that can be sold, rather than what info can be collected.
At the present time, any place you pay by credit card/check cashing
card (i.e. the discourtesy card) could potentially keep a database
using existing technology w/o much of a problem.

JMC
-- 
chandoni@husc8.harvard.edu    | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
John-Marc Chandonia           | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Graduate Biophysics Program   | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom 
Harvard University            | I will not yell fire ...
From: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:20:57 GMT
Reply-To: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Organization: Bull HN Info Sys, Billerica MA

In article <1992Sep09.171950.42284@kronos.com>, richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) writes:

|> P.S.  Have you *ever* been asked for ID when presenting a credit card?

No (although I sometimes use a credit card *as* ID), but many places
will check your signature.  Depends on how frequently they get bad
credit cards, I guess.

--Mike

(Or perhaps I just look untrustworthy...)

-- 
Michael Gelman -- M.Gelman@ma30.bull.com 
Bull HN Info Systems -- Advanced Engineering Program 
(Any similarity between my opinions and those of Bull, living or dead, are
entirely coincidental.) 
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: GeraldR@sunfish.ratsys.com (Gerald Ruderman)
Subject: Re: What is a bank?
Organization: Rational Systems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:54:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.141700.6396@kronos.com> richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) writes:

>Are we doomed to relearn the lessons of the Depression, the hard way?

There is a lot of disagreement among "experts" on what the lessons of the 
Depression that we should learn.

If this goes any further we should change the subject and maybe the news 
group.

Gerald Ruderman                                   geraldr@ratsys.com
From: bradlee@cg-atla.UUCP (Rob Bradlee)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Private message to Gerald Ruderman
Date: 15 Sep 92 11:23:46 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Agfa Compugraphic Division, Wilmington, Mass. USA


I tried to return email to Gerald Ruderman, but it failed.  Sorry to eat
up net bandwidth, but I'd really like to reply, so what follows is my
return mail to him.  Since I don't mind if all you other folks read my
mail I'll make it intelligible by explaining that the subject is my
father who used to be President of the Cambridge Trust Company.
Return mail:

    Yes, the former President was my father.  He died back in '80, but I'm
    glad to say that the spirit of honest and friendly banking has continued.
    What's more, the bank's profits continued to rise even during the 
    banking "crisis" of the last few years.
	    I am glad to hear that the bank's reputation extends all the way to
    Malaysia.  The high point of my father's career was when the Wall Street
    Journal published his annual report on the editorial page as an example
    of what corporations should aim for in forthrightness and charm.
	    As I go through my career and as I read about huge CEO salaries and
    perks, I often think of my father's approach.  As you remember he sat right
    out on the bank floor, the only acknowledgement of his rank being proximity
    to the fireplace.  During the opening of school he would open accounts for
    students along with all the other employees.  What a message to the other
    members of the bank!  They could all look over and clearly see that personal
    service was the essence of the bank and that the President thought it important
    enough to do himself.
	    Thanks for writing.  I really enjoyed your comments.


					Rob Bradlee


-- 
Rob Bradlee  w:(508)-658-5600 X5153 
Agfa Corporation.                      ...!{decvax}!cg-atla!bradlee
200 Ballardvale St.                        bradlee@cg-atla.agfa.com
Wilmington, Mass. 01887 
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:42:36 GMT

Rick> == Rick Savoia <savoia@sw.stratus.com> 

 Rick> I don't know if there was a point to all this, aside from 
 Rick> maybe, venting to others who may have the same problems.
 Rick> What do you do when your Bank pulls stuff like this?

Well, my fiancee and I punted on BayBank and went with CambridgePort.
Free ATMs (theirs, but Central and Harvard are convenient enough) and 3
free "foreign" uses a month, $1/use after that.  We use the 3 freebies
to hit BayBank machines ;-)

Of course, we also both have direct deposit, so we don't *need* to go to
the bank machines very often.
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768
From: alansar@ccs.northeastern.edu (Mohammad Al-Ansari)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:19:04 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <lb1ggcINNfs8@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.045739.6224@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, alansar@ccs.northeastern.edu (Mohammad Al-Ansari) writes:
>
>|> Yes, there are machines baring signs saying BAYBANK everywhere, but you get
>|> charged (or at least I do) $0.75 for using many of them! Since I knew that
>|> last month, I've been considering switching banks since this was the main
>|> reason I chose BayBank.
>
>The only machines that should charge you $0.75 are the ones labelled
>"XPress-24 CASH".   Usually you'll see these only in retail establishments
>like supermarkets and convenience stores.
>
>The regular BayBank X-Press 24 machines found in bank branches,
>T stations, storefronts, by-the-road booths, shopping malls, etc.
>don't charge this fee.
>

I now understand that after I had to pay for a few transactions like that. I
know it is my fault for not reading all the info they gave me, but it just
sounds strange that machines with the bank's name on them would cost different
amounts to use.  For a new customer, the difference between XPress-24 CASH and
XPress 24 is not very clear especially when all the machines have that big,
distinctive green sign.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mohammad Al-Ansari                      | alansar@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu
College of Computer Science             | alansar@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Northeastern University                 | BITNET: alansar@NUHUB
From: adamg@world.std.com (Adam M Gaffin)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:00:38 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <BuCCJo.EJn@world.std.com> grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady) writes:
>I wondered what incentive these stores have in installing this
>system (after all these terminals cost money).  I figure that some-one
>wants to collect information on who buys what.  After all, the scanner has
>just recorded everything you bought; now they have your ATM account
>number, which identifies you. (Good grief, maybe they capture
>your PIN also.)

It could also be the stores think this will be cheaper in the long run:
fewer checks to deal with in general, fewer problems with bounced checks, etc.
Or they could be scum-sucking leaches who want to know what's in your
kitchen cabinet.  A few years ago, Purity Supreme had these insta-coupon
machines in which you inserted a credit-card-like card and received a
bunch of coupons. When you used them, they were scanned in and voila,
instant database of your shopping patterns.

-- 
Adam Gaffin
Middlesex News, Framingham, Mass.
adamg@world.std.com
Voice: (508) 626-3968. Fred the Middlesex News Computer: (508) 872-8461.
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: SciFi Channel and Greater Media Cable
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:43:17
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: ne
	<1992Sep9.155726.12469@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: custard.think.com
In-reply-to: shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com's message of 9 SEP 92 11:56:13 EST


In article <1992Sep9.155726.12469@ryn.mro4.dec.com> shapiro@trade.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>    Is there anyone, thing, comission, agency, etc. that I could
>    contact to try to get Heritage to move off their butts and carry
>    these channels?

  I wonder about these things too.  I just moved to Waltham.  For the
first time in my life, I was going to sign up for cable.  The only
reason I wanted cable, however, was because I really want to watch The
International Channel.  I was willing to pay the monthly fee just for
that.

  Just my luck though, Waltham's cable company does not carry it.
Ugh.

--
Dave Hiebeler                         Internet: hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation         (617) 234-4070 (work)
From: dfoley@testament.bbn.com (Dennis Foley )
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: BayBank
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:34:17 GMT
Reply-To: dfoley@testament.bbn.com. (Dennis Foley )
Distribution: ne
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I also got the notice from BayBank to the effect that if I did
not sign up for their debit card then I would be subject to
a fee.

I do not like my bank coercing me to do something.  They seem
to have forgotten who is serving whom.  Yes, I can avoid the
fee by signing up for the card then never using it.  But there
is a principle involved.  And there is a question: what is the
next thing that they will try?

I'm switching to our credit union.  With direct deposit, there 
is free and unlimited use of Express-24, Cirrus, etc., machines.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                .   ,      . ,
Dennis Foley                "Riam n'ar druid o sbairn lann."  
(dfoley@testament.bbn.com)              - motto of the Irish Brigade,
The opinions are mine.                    Army of the Potomac
                            "I know of no way of governing mankind
                             but by conciliating them." - Chas. James Fox
                            "L'amour est si contraire." - Sartre
                            "Love stinks."              - J. Geils
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: GeraldR@sunfish.ratsys.com (Gerald Ruderman)
Subject: Re: Union Trust in CT - no ATM fees
Organization: Rational Systems, Inc.
Distribution: ne
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:46:35 GMT

In article <zippy.715744416@berry.cs.brandeis.edu> zippy@cs.brandeis.edu (Patrick Tufts) writes:

>Side note: while out in Salt Lake City, I found an ATM that would
>withdraw a $1 user fee directly from your account!  At least they 
>had a warning to that effect on the machine.

I saw a similar ATM at the Atlanta (I think) airport where the fee was .50 
from your account.

One of my theories about these machines is that the airport authority 
charges them so much they need to do this.

My other theory is that since these machines get so few customers from the 
owning bank, that the owning bank doesn't make enough money on them

I have another theory: As long as we use them they will keep charging us (
and raising the price).

Gerald Ruderman                                   geraldr@ratsys.com
From: edwardp@cs.umb.edu (Edward P. Piecewicz)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: What is a bank?
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:34:01 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS

In article <2678@mitech.com> gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette) writes:
>What is a Bank?
>
>Getting your MasterCard from AT&T, to double as a phone card.
>
>Getting your MasterCard from General Motors?
>And you get a 5% kick-back on purchases, up to $500 a year ($3500 limit) that
>can be applied as an added discount on a new car purchase.
>
>Obviously if you like GM cars that is a pretty decent incentive to
>start using your new GM mastercard for everything you buy. Including
>groceries at stores, etc. (Up to $10k worth of purchases).

And don't forget GE's new MasterCard.  THAT one is targeted towards major
appliance purchases.  And unlike AT&T and GM, General Electric DOES own
a bank.


-- 
Internet:  edwardp@cs.umb.edu                                  - guest user -
Member and Activist:  The Boston Computer Society
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi)
Subject: Re: BayBank
Reply-To: boaz@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: ne
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:06:28 GMT

In article <6259@transfer.stratus.com>, kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
|> 
|> My biggest consern was what happens if you lose your card.  (If you get
|> ExpressCheck, your regular BayBank card is replaces with a BayBank card
|> with MasterCard logo on it). My worry was that unlike a credit card where
|> you are billed charges (and thus can dispute them before you pay them), a
|> lost ExpressCheck card would allow someone to charge stuff on your account
|> and the money would be withdrawn from your account before you could do 
|> anything about it. 

Here is an idea I just had: If you want your ExpressCheck card to function 
only as an ATM card and not as a debit card (i.e., just like before we were
all forced into it), why can't you  MUTILATE the card ?
  For example, paint the card black or drill several holes into the card in
a way that no keen store employee would accept it, but leaving the magnetic 
strip intact (that's all the ATM reader cares about).

-- Boaz

===============================================================================
  _              _            __         __ ___  _ _   __ ___    ____      ___
 /_) _  _  __   /_) _   __ __ _/    o     |   |   \| __ |   |     /    \ |   |
/__)(_)(_|__/  /__)(_'_/ /   /__\/_(        __|_ __\    | __|_     \  __\| __|_
          __)                                           |                      
===============================================================================
 Boaz Ben-Zvi <boaz@lcs.mit.edu>     MIT Addr: NE43-526   Tel: (617) 253-6212 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: kyrouz@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Bill Kyrouz)
Subject: Re: What is a bank?
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:13:50 GMT



  Thought I'd throw in a footnote-- for those interested in national
economic collapse (at least a ficticious presentation thereof) may be
interested in "The Ropespinner Conspiracy" -- the name of the author
eludes me, but I found it to be an exciting book..  It's about an american
professor and superstar investment banker who take advantage of banking
deregulation to bring the american economy crashing down (while working
for Moscow)...
    Now back our regularly scheduled newsgroup..
Bill
From: gemmellj@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: East. Mass 3rd airport to help Logan ?
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:27:25 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

Hi, I'm just wondering on what the status for the proposed
airport at Ft. Devens.  I heard that one possibility for
the site is a railroad yard.

Does anyone know what's going on about the new airport  (as
a relieve to Logan??
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: What is a bank?
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:25:56 GMT
Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

What is a Bank?

Getting your MasterCard from AT&T, to double as a phone card.

Getting your MasterCard from General Motors?
And you get a 5% kick-back on purchases, up to $500 a year ($3500 limit) that
can be applied as an added discount on a new car purchase.

Obviously if you like GM cars that is a pretty decent incentive to
start using your new GM mastercard for everything you buy. Including
groceries at stores, etc. (Up to $10k worth of purchases).
From: richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun)
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:19:50 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>The Xpress Check card ... has a MasterCard logo in the corner, so that
>anyplace that accepts MasterCard will accept it.
>...
>You only get it if you ask for it, so I'm not sure why you'd get it and
>then throw it away.

Well, if they made me take it as a condition for getting something else I
wanted, this is exactly what I'd do with a debit card.  I've been lucky
enough not to ever lose my wallet, but if I did I'd be rather fearful
that my account had gotten cleaned out by the time it could be shut off.

A thief would have more fun with one of these than with a regular credit
card.

-rich
P.S.  Have you *ever* been asked for ID when presenting a credit card?
From: James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: ne.general
Subject: Re: Speaking of ATMs
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:23:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <laukuhINN1e8@news.bbn.com>

grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady) writes:
>In article <SPIKE.92Sep9125246@coke.std.com> spike@coke.std.com 
>    (Joe Ilacqua) writes:
>>
>>     The Purity Supreme in Watertown (on Watertown Street) has
>>installed gizmos that let you pay for your groceries with your ATM
>>card (or Visa and Master Card).  You swipe your card, enter your code,
>>agree to the charge ("PRESS OK IF $59.74 IS CORRECT") and you are off.
>>Like paying with a check you can over pay to get cash back.
>
>The DeMoulas/Market Basket Grocery chain has installed these in all
>their stores (I've seen them in Salem NH, Haverhill MA and Woburn MA
>stores.).
>I wondered what incentive these stores have in installing this
>system (after all these terminals cost money).  I figure that some-one
>wants to collect information on who buys what.  After all, the scanner has
>just recorded everything you bought; now they have your ATM account
>number, which identifies you. (Good grief, maybe they capture
>your PIN also.)
>Well, I value my privacy too much to play this game.  I'll keep on using
>cash, thank you!
>-- 
>            Dick Grady               grady@world.std.com

Jeez, some people are sure paranoid!  
What is the store's incentive?  Maybe to attract customers by offering
a very convenient method of paying.  This is no different than accepting
a credit card (which very few supermarkets in this part of the country
seem to do).

Jim Kowalczyk               James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Andover, MA
Newsgroups: ne.general
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: Anyone else get this from BayBank?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:37:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.174119.66591@kronos.com>
richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) writes:
>People are willing to shell out $1 every time they go get $20 out of a magic
>money machine (MMM).

Not if I stay at BayBanks machines. At least they do have the omnipresense
factor going for them.

>Cash in the wallet seems to me all the access to money I need,...

I'm from the South side of Chicago. You'll never catch me walking around
with $300 bucks in my pocket w/o a damn good reason.

-- 
Kenneth R. Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
Not one of the "PC" weenies.