From: SCHULTZ@admin1.usask.ca (Robert Schultz)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Removing lead fouling...
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:34:43 GMT
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


Netters:
	I picked this tip off the HBD (HomeBrewDigest) and found it to
be useful here too (kind of my Christmas Present to you all).

	To remove lead fouling from barrels use a solution of hydrogen
peroxide and vinegar (mix 50/50).  This solution produces peracetic
acid (approximately 5%) which eats (oxidizes) lead and leaves almost
everything else alone!  Plug one end of the barrel and pour it in,
shake around every once in a while and pour out the lead salts after a
few hours.

	I have tried this and it works great!  However I am not a
chemist and have inquired to a few, the response follows:

I do not claim any responsiblitiy blah, blah, blah, blah blah......


Robert
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ...
Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun."	- Gary Larson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

	Note: Caution is advised when using Peracetic Acid....

Subject: alternative chemicals for lubrication and getting the lead
out Below is the article: "An inexpensive method for lubricating
firearms & getting the lead out" by Pete Culpenski in the Oct. '92
Florida Rod and Gun Trader"

Any comments on this ?  Mine are in [square brackets -lvc].

"One of the most overlooked methods for lubricating firearms after
cleaning is to use air conditioning refridgerant oil.  A/C
refridgerant oil is one of the finest, odorless lubricants available.
As mentioned in previous articles WD-40 can do more harm than good and
transmission fluid (Dexron) also has it [sic] downfalls.  Because it's
meant to be used in transmissions, transmission fluid has coloring
added to it [I don't follow that logic - lvc] which will stain woods
and will not hold up in high temperature situations [such as in a
rifle chamber] without getting sticky.

Air conditioning refridgerant oil, on the other hand, is a highly
refined oil designed to lubricate under high pressure and high temps
as well as not freeze when mixed with liquid freon [maybe this would
be a good oil for cold weather hunting ? - lvc].  It has no odor, no
color added to it and it can be purchased inexpensively at any auto
dealership parts dept. It's also a good idea to keep a cloth with this
oil added to it to wipe off firearms after handling them [isn't this
stuff something you don't want on your hands ? -lvc]

For a penetrating oil, the best I have found is another automobile
product called Heat Riser Solvent.  It comes in a spray can and will
penetrate and dissolve rust or corrosion in a heartbeat.  Originally
designed to free up frozen (i.e., rusted) heatrisers on exhaust
systems of cars, this solvent contains a liquified graphite to eaze
removal of frozen hardware.

And, how about getting the lead out of them barrels.  The market is
saturated with all kinds of concoctions guaranteed to do the job
better than the next guys product.  Most products require elbow grease
and a stiff brush.  I got tired of using Hoppe's #9 and decided to
make life easier by using two common household ingredients that we all
have kicking around, white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.  Mix up a
50-50 mixture and you have a solution that will eat the lead out of a
gun barrel within minutes, with no hard scrubbing.  Here is how I use
it.

After blasting a hundred or so lead cast bullets out of my Ruger
Redhawk (stainless) [the man has good taste :-) - lvc] my accuracy
drops off due to leading and lead streaking the barrel.  When I return
home after shooting, I'll mix up a solution of peroxide and vinegar
which I put in an old mustard bottle [it's the mustard bottle that
makes this work! -lvc] with a painted tip so I can pour the solution
in after plugging off the end of the barrel.  A reaction will occur
between the lead and the solution.  You may even see some "fizzing"
out of the barrel due to the lead being attacked.  After five or ten
minutes, pour the solution out and rinse with tap water [not down your
kitchen sink! -lvc] to rinse out any residue.  A second cleaning may
be necessary in the case of heavy lead deposits.  After rinsing with
tap water run a patch through to dry and lubricate and you're done.
Sounds easy -- it is!

Okay, most of you are probably asking yourself right now, "Won't this
harm my barrel.  The answer is - no.  This solution is so mild that
you can drink it.  It's non-toxic and non-poisonous.  For years I've
poured vinegar on my greens and salads, and I've used hydrogen
peroxide to rinse out my mouth.  Now how on earth is it going to
damage a gun barrel, that you just blasted a hundred or so rounds out
of (especially stainless steel)?  [ What Culpenski forgets is the
chemical reaction, if any between hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar.
And what reaction does this "mixture" have with lead ? - lvc] The
salts in our skin and persperation [sic] are more harmful to firearm
finishes.  I've even conduct tests where I have put this solution in a
glass dish and added a lead bullet, a copper penny and a steel nail,
just to watch the reaction.  The lead was attacked immediately and by
the next morning dissolved.  And don't forget, we're only working
against a thin film of lead that has built up in a gun barrel.  I've
used this method for over 10 years on my Redhawk and the bore is
spotless and has lost no accuracy.

This method is basically the difference between spending big bucks on
cleaning supplies while a couple of dollars will do the same job.  I
personally believe that one a shooter trys [sic] this, he/she [sic]
will discard all other cleaning methods.

A follow-up message this morning by another guy discussed an
experiment where he put a slug in peroxide, and a visble, bubbly
reaction started immediately. A copper penny and an iron nail in the
same bowl were not attacked.

Disclaimer: The author and publisher disclaim any liability for the information
provided [that says it all ;-) - lvc] --
Larry Cipriani, att!cblpf!lvc or lvc@cblpf.att.com
"I just love the smell of gunpowder!" -- Bugs Bunny

Peracetic acid

>From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)

Now, the drawback of peracetic acid is that it will cost you something
like $100 for 3/4 lb.  And, of course, it can't be shipped by UPS.

Why bother buying it? There's a thread in my Firearms list where
someone advocates mixing equal parts of vinegar (acetic acid) and
drugstore hydrogen peroxide in a plastic mustard bottle, plugging a
gun barrel on one end, and then filling the barrel with the mixture to
clean out lead fouling. The writer the went on to state that the
mixture will dissolve completely a .38 unjacketed slug overnight, and
won't faze glass, steel, or ceramics.

From:   IN%"8220RWH@indy.navy.mil"  "ROBERT W. HOSTETLER"
*************************************************
Subject: peracetic acid

Just a little warning about peracetic acid, like concentrated hydrogen
peroxide, concentrated solutions of peracetic acid can be explosive
(explodes violently when heated to 110 C).  You should also be aware
that peracetic acid is a strong oxidizing agent, capable of
epoxidizing a variety of double bonded substrates.

SJB
From: berthels@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com


Subject: Peracetic Acid

All this talk about peracetic acid as a sterilizing agent may be more
trouble than it is worth.  In our lab, we prepare the peracid using
30% peroxide and glacial (ie 100%) acetic acid.  This reaction is very
exothermic, and the product is rather hazardous, tending to be
explosive in this concentrated form.

The home synthesis proposed recently (vinegar aka 5% acetic acid plus
peroxide bleach - I don't know the concentration offhand, but it is
quite dilute) would not be expected to give good yields of peracetic
acid.  It would probably behave essentially as the mixture of acetic
acid and peroxide.  This would be an effective sterilizing mixture, of
course, BUT IS IT WORTH THE TROUBLE?  Neat peracetic acid would be one
hell of a sterilizing agent.

From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
*********************************************

I am not sure exactly how much peracetic acid (CH3COOOH) would
actually be formed using domestic vinegar and domestic peroxide
solutions.  The maximum, of course, would be 5% by volume as this is
how much acetic acid there is in the vinegar [note pickling vinegar
has 7% -- Rob]!  However, on discussing this with one of my more
experienced colleagues, we thought that probably the chemical
equilibrium would lie more towards the starting materials than towards
product at the concentrations available.

In any case, I don't think there would be significant explosion
hazards at 5% v/v (I hesitate to say none at all).

In using peracetic acid to remove lead, the product will be an acetate
salt of lead, which is presumably soluble in water, and can be rinsed.
It would have the formula Pb(OAc)2 where (OAc) represents the
acetateanion.

From:   IN%"HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA"  "Phil Hultin"
Newsgroups: rec.hunting