HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msmiller@Rational.COM (Mark Miller)
Subject: Re: What a Veg
Organization: Rational
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:17:41 GMT

In article <9210141337.AA13393@TIS.COM>, richard@TIS.COM (Richard Clark) writes:
|> 
|> 	Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggg!
|> 
|> 	What a Veg! Ole Stockdale gets my vote for loser of the week.

I think the man deserves a bit more respect than this. You wanna try
living his life and then having a live debate be your first major
public exposure in the campaign?

I wish he'd done better. But what he did say was generally right
on the money.

|> 	Danno was an obnoxious lying sniveling sack 'o shit. Kinda like
|> that last little cling-on that just won't come off no matter how vigorously
|> you wipe your ass...

Worse than that. He was a punk. You're pulling a "Clinton", nyah, nyah.

But he did set the stage for Dweeb-O-Mania II this Thursday.

|> 	Gore tried to maintain his cool, and mostly succeeded. I think
|> they (the Clinton campaign) had prepared for an *issue* debate rather
|> than a mudslinging contest...

Gore and Clinton must have the same coach. Dull, dull, dull.

|> 	Overall, the Bushman won by a little. Lie enough times and people
|> will start to believe you. Sling enough mud, and whether it sticks or not,
|> your opponent will start to look dirty.

No. Clinton lost a little I think. I don't think anyone has changed
their stance on Bush, but they're starting to take another look
at Bill "Mr. Honesty" Clinton.

|> 	I *did* find it interesting that the Perot camp decided to start
|> attacking the Clinton camp. Stockdale jumped on Gore a couple times.
|> I hope this doesn't continue! If Perot follows Bush and attacks Clinton,
|> then Clinton loses and Bush keeps the white house. :(

Stockdale had some valid points - even if they differ from Gore. We've
stripped down our military in peacetime several times and later 
regretted it. And some of the "environmentalists" _ARE_ fanatics.
There are tradeoffs to be made in managing the economy and the
ecology. We've just been making the wrong decisions up to now -
going 180 degrees the other way isn't any more correct.

I'm still not counting ole Ross out yet. As I see it, all he has to
do is come in 2nd - beat Bush - and US politics is changed forever.
It will mean that '96 will have better Independant candidates, which
should force the Depublicans to also get better candidates. This
should "trickle down" to all other elections.

|>	Well, back to politics as usual. Watch the mud fly Thursday!

Thursday should be gooooood. I don't expect Perot to mud-sling,
though. It's not his way - nor to his benefit. If its the same open
debate as Tuesday, do not be surprised if he manages to get Bush
and Clinton to agree with him on several points. He's a deal-maker,
afterall.

	-MSM
________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller                                     msmiller@Rational.COM
"Life is a 4-letter word."                        msmiller@world.std.com
[ insert tedious disclaimer drivel here ]                           IV-Q
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: walker@superman.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: New impressions of Adm Stockdale
Reply-To: walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:52:12 GMT

In article <92290.113941PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu>, <PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|> I'm much more concerned about Stockdale's association with the Rockford
|> Institute than I am about whether or not he wears a hearing aid.  Paula

What is your concern with the Rockford institute?

Doug
From: streb@ee.rochester.edu (Chuck S.)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Perot Supporters!
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:01:26 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

For the Perot supporters!

We have one of the most effective means of communiction ,Internet.
This can be used to get things started at all universities acrossed
america. For instance, a rally on the same day at universities
,colleges ect. That would get media attention , isn't that what this
is all about, Exposure...
Write if you are interested!
^chuck

-- 
===========================================================__________=========
=                                                       ' /----------\  ' 
=  There's no place like internet!!!                            |        '  
=                                                    '          |    '      
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: whangj@lib104.its.rpi.edu (Junho Whang)
Subject: Re: A farfetched scenrio for Perot victory
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: U.S.A
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:36:03 GMT



   Very unlikely scenario, but I do hope Perot has ideas other
than straight media and campaign for strategy.  - say covert
action?  If Perot continue to rise in polls while Bush continue 
sinking, I think Perot should try negotiation with republicans
pronto after the final debate.  

   What can Perot offer republicans?  How about high level jobs
for Jim Baker & other close associates of Bush should Perot be 
elected?  Clearly republicans will benefit, since they have some
influence in executive branch of government rather than none.  
Clearly Bush will like the prospect of saving jobs for some of his
dear friends.  If the animus between repubs & democrats are real,
then Perot should try to exploit this to maximum.

   When Perots son talks about "political miracle" needed
for Perot to be elected, I hope they mean that they are busily
in process of making one rather than just wishfully thinking.


****************Perot/Stockdale/Baker/Bush/Quayle in '92*******

   Democracy always gives a better government than is deserved
by the people, since whatever joker they elect as their leader,
they had to be stupider to elect him/her.

                                          -Broccoli Russell
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: mpye@netcom.com (Michael Pye)
Subject: Polls, polls, polls
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:57:27 GMT

POLLS TAKEN IN POST-DEBATE SHOW PEOPLE TAKING ROSS PEROT SERIOUSLY 
WASHINGTON (OCT. 12) UPI - Polls taken immediately after the first 
presidential debate favored Democrat Bill Clinton over President Bush 
and showed that everybody is taking independent candidate Ross Perot 
seriously. 

In a USA Today-CNN-Gallup Poll of 452 registered voters, 62 percent 
said they view Perot more favorably as a result of the debate, 
compared with 13 percent more favorable for Bush and 29 percent more 
favorable for Clinton. On the negative side, 24 percent said they 
came away from the debate with a less favorable view of Bush, 14 
percent less favorable for Clinton, but only 5 percent less favorable 
for Perot. 

A poll of 433 registered voters by Newsweek showed that 70 percent 
now say they take Perot more seriously as a presidential candidate. 
Broken down by supporters, 66 percent of Bush supporters, 64 percent 
of Clinton supporters and 100 percent of Perot supporters now take 
the Texas billionaire more seriously, as do 76 percent of those who 
say they are not committed to any candidate. 

Both polls have a margin of error of 5 percentage points. 

Asked in the Newsweek poll who did the best job in the debate, 43 
percent picked Perot, 31 percent Clinton, 19 percent Bush, 6 percent 
said none and 1 percent said did not know. Of Bush supporters, 44 
percent said Perot did a better job, compared with 34 percent of 
Clinton supporters and 78 percent of Perot supporters. 

Forty percent of Bush supporters said the president did the best job, 
while 55 percent of the Clinton supporters said their man did the 
best job. 

Asked whether the debate made them more or less likely to vote for 
Bush, 55 percent said less likely, 26 more likely, 17 percent no 
change and 2 percent did not know. Of Bush supporters, 17 percent 
said they were less likely to vote for the president. 

When the same question concerned Clinton, 40 percent said more 
likely, 37 percent less likely, 21 percent no change. Of Bush 
supporters, 10 percent said they were more likely to vote for 
Clinton, while 66 percent said less likely. Only 9 percent of Clinton 
supporters said they were less likely to vote for the Democrat, while 
68 percent said they were more likely to vote for him. 

Fifty percent said they were more likely to vote for Perot, 32 
percent less likely. Among Bush supporters, 45 percent said they were 
more likely to vote for Perot, 36 percent less likely; 43 percent of 
Clinton supporters were more likely to vote for Perot, 36 percent 
less likely; and 91 percent of Perot supporters were more likely to 
vote for Perot, compared with 6 percent who said they were less 
likely. 

Less than a quarter - 21 percent - said the debate pretty well made 
up their minds how to vote, while 64 percent said they were waiting 
for all debates and 12 percent said they made up their minds before 
the debate.
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: VOTE FOR ONE OF THE THREE CANDIDATES PA
Date: 12 Oct 1992 06:30:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


>Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: VOTE FOR ONE OF THE THREE CANDIDATES PA
Reply-To: holland@geop.ubc.ca
Date: Sun Oct 11 16:21:47 1992

In article 1b8gahINNah@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Brando:
>
>HELL NO!  The debates will not be legitimate unless they include
>ALL FOUR nationwide candidates!
> 
>This really sucks!


Forgive a question from an ignorant Canadian but.....

"FOUR nationwide candidates"?????
We up here in the frozen north know of Bush, Clinton, and Perot but who is
number four???

Is it another independent that is being ignored by the media?  Or do you only
have one fringe party!?!?!?!?!?

Considering the three "big name" candidates are all such fools it would be
nice
to see a few more "third" parties putting up candidates.

steve holland  (the man with no diacritics)

----------------------------------------------------

You are not a poor ignorant Canadian. :)  The media and the Democrat and
Republican organizations have done their level best to ignore the fact,
but there are *four* candidates on the ballot for president in all 50
states, plus Washington D.C.  His name is Andre Marrou, and he represents
the Libertarian Party of the United States.  There are also nearly 800
Libertarian candidates for federal, state and local office in 42 of the
50 states.  In 1988 our candidate, Ron Paul, pulled about 450,000 votes;
this year we hope and expect to draw more than one million votes.
We are small, but growing, and are, in fact, the third largest 
*permanent* political party in the United States, having been in
existance since 1971.

For more information, check out alt.politics.libertarian, or 
alt.politics.marrou.  If your system doesn't propagate those
groups, send me email, and I will send you a summary.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: byrd@lucerne.rice.edu (Marc J Byrd)
Subject: Re: NBC misrepresents reality
Keywords: media bias
Reply-To: byrd@lucerne.rice.edu (Marc J Byrd)
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:13:29 GMT

In article <98849@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
|> 
|> I'd just like to make a comment about something I saw this morning
|> on the Today show. Last night a young woman asked the question
|> ``How has the national debt affected you personally?'' to George
|> Bush. Bush said that it affects everyone, and was confused (apparently)
|> about the question and asked for an elaboration. The woman went on
|> to talk about _personal_ debt (still under the guise of a question
|> on the national debt). It is clear that she had difficulty
|> distinguishing national debt from personal debt. Bush then repeated
|> his statement that it affects us all. 
|> 
|> Now, perhaps Bush could have done a better job at answering the 
|> question. But what happened was that on the ``Today'' show it was 
|> reported that Bush couldn't answer a question about the effects
|> of the _recession_ on the American people (ostensibly since he
|> wouldn't be affected personally by it). This was a blatent 
|> misrepresentation of what happened which could hurt Bush very badly. 
|> FOUL!
|> 
|> 
|> Gregg
|> 
|> -- 
|> Gregg Jaeger    (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu)          VOTE PEROT  VOTE PEROT       
|> If you think the Republicans screwed up the country, can you afford to
|> see what the Democrats will do?!   ->BEWARE OF SLICK-WILLY CLINTON!!<-

Your absolutely right!  The rest of the media jumped to the same conclusion!
Also, did you notice that the moderator clarified the question after Bush but
before Clinton?  

FOUL!

(Of course Perot had the perfect answer for "How has the national debt
affected you personally?"   ;^)


-- 
Marc J. Byrd - byrd@rice.edu        
Rice University                    
Dept of Elec & Comp Engr          
XUV Holographic Microscope Project 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: dougc@htbawd.rain.com (Doug Carter)
Subject: Re: The truth about that crazy aunt in the attic
Organization: Merwin Software Services, Inc.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:32:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.211012.6500@seas.gwu.edu> korman@seas.gwu.edu (John Korman) writes:
>In article <1687BACFD.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
>>Let's see now.  "Consider this (campaign commercial) the first town meeting."
>>Stated with a straight face by Ross Perot.  Somehow, I thought he'd at least
>>try to give the ILLUSION of two way discussions.  Nope.  Ross' hired
>>economist (who now supports Clinton, you figure that one out) makes up
>>an economic plan, Perot presents his graphs about what is wrong with
>>America based on this crap, with no input from "you people".  That is his
>>idea of a town meeting.  Good work by a maniacal billionaire eccentric.
>>
>
>Leaving aside your personal attitude about Ross Perot, what kind of "crap"
>did you find in his talk? The only "crap" that I saw in his talk/presentation
>is the state of the U.S economy and how big of a trouble we are all in. 
>It is beyond me that someone can watch a half hour program on the dismal 
>state of the U.S. economy and then get infuriated about trivialities like
>"eccentric billionaire, two way discussions, ..." etc. The fact still remains
>that Ross Perot is the only candidate who is bringing this issue to the
>forefront of the discussions. Bush is ignoring it, while Clinton is making
>grand promises that sound very appealing to the ear. I am not sure that Ross
>Perot will make a good president, but if it is going to take an "eccentric 
>billionaire" to point out our deep financial problems, so be it. 

Well said. I'll admit, his talk was pretty ugly, but it had to be said.
Perot may be a little eccentric, but his message was right on the mark. 

Doug.
From: f435@cs.utexas.edu (Fall Class Account)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: PEROT TV SPOTS (16/17 OCT)
Followup-To: alt.politics.perot
Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:29:24 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: priddy.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: perot

Here in Austin, TX (central time zone) the Friday, Oct. 16 info-mercial airs at
9:30 on NBC.  I can't find a lising for one on Saturday (probably since I'm 
looking at a paper printed Oct. 11).

		-Wade

Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant)
Subject: Re: Is Perot serious?
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 20:12:29 GMT

>Since when does the Chairperson of the Senate have to be a good debator?
>Have you ever had the priveledge of watching Dan Quayle debating in the Senate?
>The Chairperson's job is to open/close the sessions and vote in case of a tie.
>This person is never involved in a "debate".

Public speaking is not solely used in the arena of debate. Public officials
need to be able to communicate efectively. And please do not misconstrue
this to mean this is the only skill that a public representative needs.
It is ONLY ONE of many. I believe that the other vice-presidential
candidates are very good speakers but are deficient in other areas.
From: dscharfe@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com (David Scharfe)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: The truth about that crazy aunt in the attic
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:58:39 GMT
Organization: Datapoint Corporation, San Antonio, TX

In article <1992Oct13.142322.10843@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
> [...]
>I don't think Ross would even associate with anyone who was a racist and
>stated that if you were a racist he did not even want your vote.
>
>I challenge Bush or Clinton to make this same statement.

Forget it; they are both cowards.
From: JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Is Perot serious?
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:13:05 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

No.  If there were any doubt left about the seriousness of Perot's candidacy
it evaporated with the first utterance of James Stockdale:
  "Who am I?  Why am I here?"
I wish he knew.  I wish Ross knew.  The office of VP has been denigrated
for eons.  Nonetheless, if you are running for President, you owe it to
your country to select someone who can at least keep a train of thought.
This isn't a game, Ross.  This is the man who would run the country if
you died or were incapacitated.  Then again, who is more senile, Ross or
James?  Hard to tell from their actions and words.

NOTE: I think Stockdale has earned the position of national hero.
That does not, however, qualify him for anything else.  The two issues
should be separated.
From: roth@csoadm.enet.dec.com (Lee Roth)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: PEROT TV SPOTS (16/17 OCT)
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:09:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Awful lotta different times have been posted here...

I just called (14-Oct 12:00 ET) 1-800-685-7777 and it offered the following:

Friday,   Oct. 16th on NBC at 10:30-11:00 PM Eastern time (30 mins.)
Saturday, Oct. 17th on ABC at  8:00- 9:00 PM Eastern time (60 mins.)

The above times agree with a UPI story I saw.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Lee Roth  N8JQY                         Digital Equipment Corporation
roth@csoadm.enet.dec.com                "Seen any good TRW+ lately?"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Volunteer Work for Perot's Campaign (Northern California)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:48:47 GMT

Hello,

A prior poster asked to volunteer in the campaign.  I might want to do so also.
I live in the Bay Area (see below) and if you have any info. you can e-mail
or call me.

Jon Noring

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant)
Subject: Re: Is Perot serious?
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 12:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.015210.1241@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, walker@superman.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Walker) writes:
>>One of the many requirements of being an effective leader is the 
>>ability to communicate your ideas to others. Mr. Stockdale per this
>>performance is clearly not capable of effective verbal communication.
>>To be quite honest, I cann`t believe that he is a college professor.
>>Does he actually lecture? What does his students have to say on
>>Mr. Stockdales ability to communicate?
>
>ADMIRAL Stockdale was obviously very nervous about being in the national
>spotlight for the first time. 

Unfortunately for Adm. Stockdale, being in the national spotlight 
comes with the job of being vice-president. This is no time for on
the job training. I expect my leaders to come prepared for the job.
By the way, I believe that Perot is prepared for the job, but not his 
vice-presidential choice.

> I debated in high school among other
>things and I will tell you that being in front of an audience is very
>unnerving.  Think how well you would have done if it had been you up
>there.
>
>Doug

I don`t think that my personal abilities as a speaker are relevent,
but I believe that I could have articulated my positions better than
Adm. Stockdale. 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: Interesting article about recession, politics and Japanese trade policy (2/2)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:55:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.171601.28433@midway.uchicago.edu> ar12@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Part 2/2; JAPANYES (monu6.cc.monash.edu.au)


>---------------------------------------
>List of companies:
>This is a list of some Japanese (or Japanese owned and controlled)
>companies. Some of the names that make this list may surprise you,
>depicted by '*':

A couple of these really surprize me as you have Japanese ownership
wrong on one, and another is an America company. 

>* MCA Home Entertainment (tv show company;ie. Dragnet..etc)  (SONY)

MCA was purchased about 2 years ago by Matsushita, NOT Sony.

>  Memorex (cassette tapes)

Boy is Tandy going to be surprised on that.  When Memorex was split up
the computer magnetics division went to Burroughs, and the consumer
magnetics went to Tandy.  "Is it live or is it Radio Shack!"

>  Ricoh (they make computer printers)

And Cameras and lenses.

>* Universal Pictures (Matsushita Industrial Electric Company)

This is the part of the MCA group.

-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|ge-dab|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
From: 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: on the VPs
Date: 16 Oct 1992 16:07:55 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

> 
>Certainly we expect this ("cue cards") from the pros.  I think Gore and
>Clinton are MUCH better at doing it, which I take as a negative.  If I
>can TELL that you are giving me a prepared statement, how am I to know
>if what you are saying is what you really believe.  Again, I cite


Why are you equating being prepared to defend your position with insincerity?

Of course Gore was prepared to answer the questions--he's been asked them
a hundred times.  Do you seriously want a candidate who thinks up his stand
on positions (or pretends to) three weeks before the election?  Given your
viewpoint I assume you think I don't believe what I'm saying because I used
a text editor to "prepare" my response rather than burden you with my typos and
spontaneous starts and stops.

Mary Hammes
Computer Services
Marquette University
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: maos@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Aos)
Subject: Perot won the debate!!!!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:57:52 GMT


Well as we all know by now Perot won the debate and is going to be the 
next president.

:-)

Mike
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot