HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr)
Subject: Re: The Rainbow Flag
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:03:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.171827.6290@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>
>>We've had this discussion before.  The historical record is not clear.
>>There was probably a rainbow coalition before the use of the "gay flag",
>>but we're not sure that the coalition used the flag before the gay movement
>>did. 
>
>This does seem like de'ja vu all over again.  If memory serves,
>the Rainbow Coalition came into being around the time of Jesse
>Jackson's presidential campaign in 1984.  The rainbow flag was
>first flown (with different colors than those used today) at
>the San Francisco Pride Parade in 1978.  So the gay use of the
>flag came first.

No, Jack has it right as I explained the last time we had this
discussion.  Jesse didn't coopt the rainbow flag from gays, he
nabbed it from the peace movement.  If you look back, you'll see
the rainbow flag commonly used as a peace symbol in the early 70's.
Thing is, there were so many "peace symbols" (classic
peace symbol, the dove holding an olive branch, etc.) that things
kind of got muddled.  There's tons of symbols from those days
people've forgotten about.  

Because Jesse drew a lot of his white followers from the old
activist community, I pretty much assumed he grabbed it from them.
Wherever he got it, all manner of activist groups used it prior to
1978.  I sold rainbow armbands as peace symbols at street fairs in
the 70's.

Of course, the accepted symbolism becomes the acknowledged
symbolism just by force of numbers.  So maybe by normative
standards the rainbow flag is now the symbol for gay pride.
Whatever.
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Bar
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:16:35 EST
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Oct9.221225.28149@PacBell.COM>,rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
   (Rod Williams) writes:
> The following, from The New York Times's "Law" page (10/9/92),
> is a re-print of David Margolick's "At the Bar" column.
...
> James P. Carroll, also of Sacramento, described his chagrin
> when his teenage grandson asked if he subscribed to a magazine
> for homosexuals.  "It is a sad day when I must make apologies
> for my professional organization's official publication," Mr.
> Carroll wrote.  The next thing you know, he continued, the bar
> would be sponsoring a float in the annual gay-lesbian freedom
> parade.

     This sounds just like the reactions that were phoned/mailed in to the
American Library Association, after they put a photograph of ALA's Gay &
Lesbian Task Force banner, as it spanned across Market Street during 1992's Gay
Pride Parade in San Francisco.

     In our case, the ANNUAL ALA conference was scheduled to coincide with the
pride parade, in the hotel district of Downtown SFO, including hotels which
straddled both sides of Market Street.  So the gay pride parade was literally
intertwined with the conference, EVEN IF there were no librarians marching in
the parade.

     The 1992 parade did NOT include a float by the librarians, but the 1990
gay pride parade in Chicago did incorporate a complete float.  

     ALA's 1993 conference will be held in New Orleans.

     Anybody interested in joining up with our parade?

P.S.  Rod, will even make you an Honorary Librarian!
      And you don't even have to put your hair up in a bun.  
-- 
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:27:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Oct13.182735.25567
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct13.164835.6137@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>Matthew has finally convinced me by the inexorable force of argument
>and wit that Madonna is the Mary Pickford of the 90's.

Was that the *force* of Matthew's argument, or just the
*weight* of it?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Birthday Greetings (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:36:04 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

Just so's I've got this clear, the "year one graduates"
(making one "class of XXXX") is
the year in which one's last year in "high school" ended, right?

And in which month do your USA high school years end?
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*tick* n. crib-biting: a whimsy" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:58:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.003623.6864@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com (Howard 
Arthur Faye) writes:
>
>Tell it! He has the most adorable little tail dangling down his neck!

I guess if the economy goes really bad there's always a job for me in the
circus.

>>  In the thirties and forties men seemed to fear homosexuality as the 
>>  ancient mariners feared sailing off the end of the ocean.
>>
>>                            -John Cheever


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: They've *ruined* the _New Yorker_
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:22:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bw6JM6.2sA@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.022509.17598@boy.com> robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky) writes:
>
>>Does anyone else think that the new _New Yorker_ format stinks?
>
>In fact, I was dismayed to find that I rather like them.  (So far.)

Me too.  My first feeling, on opening the first issue in the new format,
was one of dismay.  I felt as though an old friend had abandoned me.
But, you know, I have come to like the new format despite myself.  The
text face has been slightly changed, and is (IMHO) more legible (though
some lines are set too close).  The general tone of the magazine seems
unchanged.

>>they started a *letters* *to* *the* *editor* column!
>>In this week's issue, some Clueless Reader wrote to ask what they meant by a
>>"tetragrammatonic mustache."

They seem to pick the rather wacky (or else painfully,
missing-the-pointly serious) letters.  (The first one was a terribly
earnest correction of the notion of firefighters rescuing cats from
trees.)  They have in the past reprinted some letters to the editor of
the _Times_ of London, under the heading "There'll Always Be an
England".  These letters seem to deserve the heading "There'll Always
Be a New Yorker".

>Now, if they start messing with the typeface for page numbers, I'm going
>to get *really* upset!!  :-)

Surely you jest.  They _did_ mess with the typeface for page numbers!
It used to be the same typeface as the text; now it's the display face
used for the flag and for article titles.  (Not a felicitous choice, to
my way of thinking; page numbers should be less obtrusive.)

--Rich, typeface queen

(My father--50 years a printer--and I were discussing these changes in
minute detail, when my mother joined us, listened for a few minutes, and
asked, puzzled, "The New Yorker changed its format?"  She'd just read
the long article on Dan Quayle and Brett Kimberlin and hadn't noticed
anything.  Good grief.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 01:15:49 GMT


In article <1992Oct10.004120.12791@adobe.com>
asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:

>I find quite amusing the claim that cultural icons must be
>timeless.  If this is true, who are the cultural icons from the 1800's?

Oh nobody much.  Just Beethoven, Pushkin, Liszt, Dostoevsky,
and a smattering of painters.  Inconsequential stuff like
that.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: The Unwritten Law
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:26:58 GMT
Reply-To: byma@clouseau.cog.brown.edu
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

There has been, at various times in the life of soc.motss, considerable
bandwidth expended on Christianity's views of homosexuality. With your
kind indulgence, I would like to add a brief additional viewpoint
which may be of interest.

Ever since I realized that I was gay (some twenty years ago) I have
been wrestling with the conflict between what my inner self was telling
me and what the Bible purportedly taught. For years, I allowed the
Bible and the interpretation put on it my fundamentalist pundits win
out. Upon coming out, finally, I realized that there was something
wrong with this interpretation. How could a God of love have a problem
with anyone loving someone else? But even more fundamentally, how could
a just God have two standards, one for gays and one for straights?

During a conversation I had with my mother the other day, she said that
she recognized that it was easy for her to say that homosexual love was
a sin because it wasn't something she didn't have to struggle with it.
Now, I have had similar conversations with others about the facileness
of heterosexuals who called homosexuality a sin, but all of sudden I
saw that this amounted to an 11th commandment, "the unwritten law",
Thou shalt not have sex with member to the same sex.

This unwritten law really doesn't apply to straights because they
wouldn't be tempted to 'disobey' it. Thus it only applies to the
queer 10% of the population. In effect, believing that there is
such a law amounts to saying that God has separate standards for
some people than for others. Clearly, any law that applies to some
people and not to others is unjust and because I believe that God
is fundamentally (sorry) a God of justice, this cannot be what
is meant.

Either you have a just and loving God who has no problem with
men loving men and women loving women, or you have an unjust
God. I know which one I would want to serve.

Gary Byma
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sister Souljah on White Feminists -- They Want to Seduce Black Women
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:03:28 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Oct15.142400.28158@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmp8p@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jeannine Marie Pinto) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.004509.20780@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
$
$	Is there _any_ support for SS's contentions? 
>		^^^^^^

>What do you mean by "any"?  Do you mean "Has any white woman ever
>tried to seduce a Black woman?"   What would count as evidence in
>support of SS's claim?  

	SS seems to think that white feminists' main interest in black
women is in seducing them.

	Since there seems to be no other evidence besides her say-so
for this curious contention, I think we can safely dismiss her as yet
another fruitcake. No good white people? Give me a break.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:09:29 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct7.153455.2674@osf.org> coren@osf.org
(Robert Coren) writes:

The by no means minor Minar:

>> Well, I hope I'm not *just* "e-fuckable".

>Especially "imminently", like in about 10 days or so?

Total e-sluts from hell, both of you, and about to be more
than e-slutting, from the sound of it.  By your leave, I
will e-hold the e-cam and if needed guide the e-prongs into
the e-orifices of the said e-sluts.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Ah, Smell the Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:44:27 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) wrote:
>Cologne makes me worry. I can never tell a 'good' cologne from a 'bad'
>one; I just either notice cologne or don't (But then, I can recognise
>petchuli; a guy was wearing *way* *too* *much* at the Run a few weeks
>ago (and combing his hair on the dance floor. Too tacky) and I made a
>point of avoiding him.), and I'm afraid if I decide to wear it I'll
>end up smelling like a damn French cathouse and not realize it (though
>come to think of it, that probably would fit me just fine).

Patchouli (correct spelling) is one of only two scents I can stand on myself.
One must find a good parchoulli oil (most are just dreadful), and only
wear it when the weather is cold, ow else that awful cathouse smell does
occur.  Needless to say I wear it very infrequently.

The other scent I like is Green Water, from what I've seen, only available
in France.  Very light and citrussy.  Perfect for hot and humid.

And yes, I do much prefer the natural scent of man.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:09:47 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <thaaang.718948398@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
Dorrance) wrote:
 
> Sideburn victim.

Is *he* the one that brought that *beastly* style back!?

Melmothra, ACC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Subject: Re: "I Hate Gay Men" text
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:00:42 GMT

In article <9210122241.AA04864@client.its.rpi.edu> buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>
>J.T. SANDONE posted to Gaynet@gallifrey.kent.edu
>
>
>I know that someone had requested this article, and since I have it, I 
>thought that i would pass it on.  All typos are mine.  
>
>	I hate gay men.  I feel more and more hopeless about our community.  
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I'm starting with the man in the mirror.

    I'm asking him to change his ways

    And no message could have been any clearer

    If you want to make the world a better place

    Take a look in the mirror and make that change.


The author of the "I hate gay men" might be right or he might be wrong
but he is a hopless case.  With such a bleak outlook I surprised he
didn't just bump hiself off and save the medical expenses of keeping
him alive when he starts rotting away from AIDS.

I think he was looking in the mirror when he was writing this.  He certainly
wasn't looking at me.

Xavier

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Oregon on Today Show this morning
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:13:54 GMT

> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM writes:

>This morning, Mabon of the OCA and a woman, (last name of Lowe, I think)
>spoke on the today show for and against measure 9.  He was a bozo (but not
>as obvious a bozo as I would have hoped) and she was brilliant.  He kept trying
>to paint the initiative as one against things like beastiality, sadism, etc.
>She made an excellent point that the initiative would be as dangerous for a
>CELIBATE (my emphasis, not hers) gay man or woman as for anyone else.  I think
>it was the most powerful statement of the discussion.  She was very good at
>showing why this is bad because against people as opposed to Mabon who tried
>to portray it as against acts.

I thought Katie Couric did a pretty good job pinning Mabon
down to say that he considered laws prohibiting consideration
of sexual orientation in housing and employment practices to
be "special rights".  He was using the smarmy, vicious
argument that such laws "elevate private sexual behavior to
the same status as race or religion"  -- without mentioning
that the dubious "status" those attributes share is as
reasons for people like him to hate and discriminate against
others -- and you just know that uninformed, fearful people
eat that crap up :-(

This was the first time I'd seen the guy on TV...what a creep!

Did you notice that when Katie asked him who supported the OCA
and Measure 9, he listed the usual suspects (Christian
Coalition, Traditional Values Coalition, etc...), including
the Eagle Forum, Phyllis (and John) Schlafly's organization?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Quayle Campaign Stroll Disrupted in SF
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:38:46 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Can someone explain to me how the campaign staff of the vice president
>of America can actually *lie* like this, and get away with it? It's
>astounding to me. This is a direct and deliberate misrepresentation of
>Bill Clinton's position on gay rights - how can he say it?
It's easy, hon. "Just put your lips together and BLOW!" :-)

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
The First Amendment: not just a good idea, it's the law.-murphy@omega.npri.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:19:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.011247.28788@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) 
writes:

>Um, Arne, maybe this is a generational thing, but I've never heard
>of Tucker Quayle until now.  Is he some sort of icon, too?
>
>(Who the hell IS he, Quayle's dad?  brother?)

He's Dan and Marilyn's oldest child, now a freshman at Lehigh University in
Bethlehem, PA.  His name is his mother's maiden name.  The second child, also a
boy, is Benjamin, and the third and last, a girl, is Corinne, named after Dan's
mother.

Maybe he'll become a soc.motss participant one day.

Katie
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:34:21 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <mattm-081092095447@mcmelmon.apple.com>,
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) mussitates:
> But time will fix it, and it will be my turn
> to set myself up as the pompous sage without a fuck,

Butcha *are*, Matt, ya *are*!
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*holoptic* having the eyes meeting in front"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: Paul Jabara
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:01:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.222433.2633@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.185730.25143@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>>|> Oh my.  I'd forgotten all about Jonathan whatshisname.
>>
>>Richmond.  Road Runner.  G-I-R-L-F-R-E-N.
>
>God, even pop culture amnesiac/illiterate that I am, I know
>that it's R-I-C-H-M-A-N.
>
>He's originally from the Boston area.

Yes, but does he know Madonna?
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:43:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <mattm-081092134906@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Kind of like Shawn vs. Shaun.  Kathy vs. Cathy.  Kris vs. Chris.
>John vs. Jon.  Qadafi vs. Khadafy.  /etc/etc

Melmon vs moron.

>Really.

Really.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:27:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct15.192721.11440
Organization: insert anything here

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>|> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>|> >Having dined with Phil Ronzone,

>|> >I have found that though we have differing
>|> >opinions on almost every topic, we do not have to stoop to insults.

>|> Wasn't it weird to eat in silence across the table from
>|> each other?  Someone might mistake you two for being married.

>Actually... Here are some interesting Ronzone facts.  He has one ear pierced...
>It is his right ear.  I thought this humorous.  He is quite civil in person.
>He also likes to get people riled.  He likes to see how far he can push
>people.  If he finds that he can push your buttons, he gets a thrill from
>doing it.  If he finds that he cannot push your buttons, he becomes a
>more reasonable person.

	So where's the incentive for wanting to have anything to do
with this person?  I only have 80 years on this planet (maybe more,
maybe less)... who has time to waste?

>Now, here's a question for you... If you were given the opportunity to
>have a one on one lunch with Jesse Helms, would you take the invitation?
>I certainly would... What about you?

	As much as I would like to think I would, I probably wouldn't.
There are so many other people on the planet for whom having lunch with 
would be a good experience.  It's totally clear that no one has
ever penetrated through his skull into what little mind he has
(let alone heart or soul), what could I bring that hasn't been brought
before?  I'd rather spend the time with someone for whom I could
be an influence, or just have anice lunch with someone separate
from any overriding pathos.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss