HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Date: 19 Nov 1992 19:43:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 24857@tessi.com, allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:
>
>>I have never understood the justification for linking a RE agent's fees
>>to the price of the house.  
>
>Still, I can't
>imagine how the real estate business would be able to set up
>how much a realtor gets paid other than the present system.  Attaching
>a basic pay amount of a certain percentage of the sale price seems
>the only easy, least confusing way.

Oh, please!

Doctors, lawyers, engineers, stock brokers, and professionals in every
other realm of life manage to do it.

Flat fee, fee + expenses, fee + hourly if over n hours, flat fee with
incentive bonuses, there are about a million possibilities.

The only other professionals I know of that charge that way are
architects, for whom there is a direct correlation between the cost of
construction of a building and the amount of design and contract
administration work involved.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rmrin@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (r.m.rickert)
Subject: Re: refrigerator in a garage?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:16:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.132703.26478@cci632.cci.com> lcw@cci632.cci.com (Lori Wershing) writes:
>
>We have two refrigerators...one for the kitchen and one for ????.  In the past
>we kept it in the basement, but in the new house it is actually more 
>convenient to have it in the garage.  Is there any reason not to put it
>there?  We live in Rochester, NY so it does get somewhat cold....will this
>damage the motor?
>
>My father thinks that it should be adequately insulated to protect it from
>cold.....my husband is willing to move it if necessary......what do you folks
>think?
>
>All comments appreciated........Lori.
>
>

I've done this for about 25 years now so it works.  However:

1-	I've never had the problem others mentioned of stuff in the freezer
	thawing but stuff in the frig (it's a side by side) will freeze.

2-	If the frig you have is not too old it probably uses a fan to keep
	the air moving over the coils.  Also, the coils may be on the bottom.
	If so, clean these suckers regularly!  I'm on the third garage frig
	and the first two died at least partially because of dirt buildup.
	You've got to keep the blower motor clean as well as the coils.
	The same warning applies to a unit in the basement.
	If you buy a second hand unit for such service, try to get one
	which has no fan and the coils on the back instead of underneath
	the unit.
-- 

Dick Rickert  AT&T Consumer Products Laboratory
From: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: D.I.Y installation of Air Cond.
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:10:18 GMT
Reply-To: plumpe@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Plumpe)
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In misc.consumers.house, rlittles@qualcomm.com (Roland Littles) writes:
>I have an existing Central Heating system and would like to add Air
>Conditioning.
>Has anyone done this themselves, what does it entail, MFGR used, Price,
>etc....

    Yes, back in 1965.  It was a new tract house and the builder wanted
$1250 (in 1965 $$!) for A/C.  I paid him extra for the optional large
furnace (with plenum large enough for the A/C evaporator and larger
fan) - I think it cost $50.  I bought Sears condenser, evaporator, lines,
etc and installed them myself.  The hardest part was getting the condenser
from the curb to the slab, and removing a brick to make a hole in the
wall to run the lines.
    Altogether, it cost me $555 and 25 hours of labor (not including
planning/procrastination).  Thus I "earned" $645, or $25.80 per hour,
tax-free, in 1965 dollars!  (my real job at the time paid $4.44, taxable). 
I have no idea how the present-day economics would work out.
    In 1966 the compressor crapped out.  Sears came out and replaced
it for free (even free labor!)  Since then it's run fine.  I added
a little freon once and have to free-up and lubricate the condenser
fan every few years when it runs out of oil ("permanently lubricated"
bearings).  I'm sure new units are much more efficient, but this one
just won't break and the watt-hours now are the same as 1965.
    Advice:
	 Understand what's involved
	 Check if furnace fan, plenum size, and house wiring are adequate
	 Estimate your savings, compare with estimated time and risk
	 Act on it
Enjoy!
-DaveP
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Getting Ready to Sell House: How to Make it Most Appealing?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 17:24:39 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:

> In article <1992Nov11.192436.11903@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. 
> =When it was all over with, and we decided to stay, we remembered that one
> =of the things that endeared us to the house when we bought it was a
> =framed piece of needlework that was hanging in the dining room.  It
> =depicted the Kiev railroad station, and was completed by the owner's
> =grandmother during her boat trip from Russia to America.  It represented
> =her last (ever) view of her native country.  You can't
> 
> Do you have an emotional connection with Russia??

I do. Isaac Asimov was born there. 

:-)

In any case, I'm on the side of the personalized house; bare walls,
bland color, and a general sense of sterility don't turn me on.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: rrw@sunset (Bob Wier)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Home Automation
Date: 21 Nov 92 04:01:04 GMT
Originator: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu

>>I'd like to know if there are any cateloges out there for home
>>automation especially how to attach a PC to control this stuff....
>>
>>Mike Couture
>>mikey@nlbbs.uucp

 Anyone interested in home automation might want to check out the 
 X10 files available via anonymous ftp at red.cs.tcu.edu (138.237.7.8
 ) in the "hc11" directory...


- Bob Wier

  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
                   College of Engineering
      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | WB5KXH | fax:602 523 2300
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Date: 19 Nov 1992 16:04:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 7781@tessi.com, allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:

>What does FSBO mean?

For Sale By Owner (ie, not listed through a RE agent).

>I guess that I'm agreeing with you in that real estate is fundamentally
>a dishonest business in some respects, but then, I think plumbers and
>electricians, etc. are grossly overpaid as well. 

Perhaps, but at least they *do* something  :^).  Besides, they are paid
by the hour, regardless of the nature of the job.

I have never understood the justification for linking a RE agent's fees
to the price of the house.  If there is any correlation at all between
price and the work required to sell, it seems that it would be
negative.  People at the lower end of the spectrum are the ones barely
qualifying for loans, don't understand finance and negotiations, etc.
Does a realtor really work 5 times as hard to sell a $500K house as
they do to sell a $100K one?

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john)
Subject: Re: Basketball Goal
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:20:37 GMT

In article <BxtM9x.CAx@unx.sas.com> sasjtf@scorpion.unx.sas.com (Judy K. Heffner) writes:
>
>
>My son has requested a basketball goal for Christmas.  We are
>considering mounting the goal above our two-car garage.  
>Any suggestions?  recommendations? 

I am putting one in myself this Christmas and will set the post in concrete at the
OPPOSITE side of the driveway.  At our last home, I mounted one above the garage
doors...The noise inside the house drove anyone NOT playing outside nuts! 
-- 
Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com		| kahuna@attmail.com
	-- Illigitimi non carborundum est -- Kris Kristofferson
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Basketball Goal
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:34:36 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

stevee@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Stephen Elmendorf) writes:

> I also would like to put up a goal (on a post). My concern is that we don't
> plan on living here more than 4-5 years at most. How much of a negative is it
> to have a goal in front of the house when it comes time to sell? It seems tha
> removing it might be difficult, since it is sunk into a block of concrete. 
> Unless the prospective buyers had kids, or liked to play, I would think it 
> might turn them away. Any comments?

Plant an 18" piece of square steel pipe (about 6" square) in the
concrete, about 4" below surface level. Use a smaller piece of 
square pipe (about 4.5" or so) that will slip into the concreted
piece as your pole. When time comes to move, just pull it out and
fill in the buried piece.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 16:16:40 GMT
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Surge protection - how does it work?
Reply-To: blarson@usc.edu
From: blarson@blars.UUCP

In article <BxKnAD.Its.2@cs.cmu.edu> goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) writes:
>I have a surge protected outlet in my study.  I took it apart
>to figure out how it works.  I had assumed it was like GFI but
>I find it isn't (it doesn't have line and load).
>I think surge protection works by shorting the circuit if a voltage
>spike occurs.

Basicly correct.  It's some form of voltage dependant resistor that has
a resistance that drops dramaticly when the voltage exceeds a
threshold.

>If my idea is correct, then it would seem that any other
>outlet on the same circuit as my surge protected outlet is also
>surge protected.  Is this correct?

Maybe.

If the source of the surge is beteen the protector and the load you
want protected, don't expect your protector to be worth much.  If the
surge is on the other side of the protector, it may help quite a bit.
Sources of surges include electric motors and induction from lightning
induced into your wiring (can show up on any run of wire more than a
foot or so).

-- 
blarson@usc.edu			usc!blarson			blarson@zog
		C news and rn for os9/68k!
I think I hear a scream.  A great many dramatic situations begin with a scream.
							-- Barbarella
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek)
Subject: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:13:07 GMT

In several articles, many write:
|> |> >If the agents are getting paid by the seller to begin with then they aren't
|> |> >really 'buyers' agents, they're 'selling' agents.
|> |> 
|> |> If you want to pick nits, there is no such thing as ANY agent being
|> |> paid by the seller, 100% of the RE fees come out of the buyer's pocket,
|> |> as they are tacked onto the price of the house.
|> 
|> You can use exactly the same logic to demonstrate that the agents are getting
|> paid by the seller, since their fees reduce the amount received by the
|> seller.  Sure, the money doesn't pass through the seller's hands, but it is

Disclaimer:  The following applies to _most_ states in the USA.

Legally, the agents are working for and under contract to the seller.  Legally,
they get paid by the seller.  If something bizarre happens (like the seller 
arranges to bypass closing and all that stuff, thereby bypassing the agents'
getting their check), the agents can sue the _seller_ for breach of contract.
This has nothing to do with the price of the house or whether the agents' fees
are added to the worth of the house to get selling price or subtracted from it
to reduce the seller's proceeds.  

Legally, for an agent to have a fiduciary responsibility to the buyer, a
contract must exist between the buyer and the agent.  For a contract to be
valid and binding, some consideration must be given.  In this case, the
buyer must give the agent consideration in return for the work the agent 
will do.  This is generally in the form of a lump-sum cash payment, but
may take other forms including a percentage of the purchase price of the
house.  Sometimes the selling and buying agent will agree to split the
commission, but to obtain a true buyer's agent his consideration should
not be connected in any way to the seller's agent's commission.   

If I hire a buyer's agent for $2000, and buy a house, I will pay the agent
$2000.  I really don't care whether the seller's contract with his/her agent
specifies 6%, 3%, or 99% commission.  I expect my buyer's agent to get me
the best possible deal and I'll pay him his money.  If the seller's agent
gives my agent money (i.e., splits commission) then I expect that money
(providing, of course, I specified it in the contract).  The buyer's agent
will have no right to it as he is working under contract to me for a specified
consideration ($2000).  His responsibility to me includes getting the lowest
price possible including any "rebates" from the seller's broker.

-Mike
From: LARRY@THEORY.PHYS.VIRGINIA.EDU (Larry Suddarth)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Upright Vacuums
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:46:56 GMT
Organization: DEPT. OF PHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

Has C.R. done a comparison of Upright Vacuums recently?  And, additionally, if
any netters have had very good or bad experiences, I would appreciate info
in regard to good points, bad points, etc.  Thanks in advance.




Larry T. Suddarth			larry@virginia.edu
University of Virginia			
Physics Department			I alone am responsible for the contents
McCormick Road				of my postings and mailings.
Charlottesville, VA 22901
(804)924-6784
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: hbb@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (harlan.b.braude)
Subject: Calibrating old Honeywell "round" thermostats (for furnaces)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:20:41 GMT

I need some calibration information for one of these thermostats.
The newer "round" thermostats may be functionally different than
what I have, so I'll first describe the "algorithm" of mine (as I
understand it) and then present my question.

algorithm:

	There is a small vial of mercury attached to one end of a
	temperature-sensitive coil. At the other end of the vial
	are wires for a low-voltage selenoid (it's for an oil-fueled
	steam system.) When the vial tips far enough so that the
	mercury in the vial completes the circuit, the furnace fires
	up.

My question relates to the use of two small levers in the thermostat
that are in addition to the temperature selection dial and can be
seen when the front cover is removed. One lever points to a position
on a scale from .2 to .8 at .1 increments and the second lever has
a scale from 6 - 10 that is marked by an arrow with the word "longer"
(I think.)

Clearly, these levers are supposed to be set in some complementary
fashion to define the optimal temperature range around the set
temperature; the idea being to limit the on/off cycling of the
furnace.

What is the optimal balance and how is it achieved?

Currently, the thermostat allows the temperature to drop too low
between cycles. Is trial and error the only way or is there a more
direct path to comfort short of replacing the thermostat with
something more modern?
-- 
Harlan B. Braude
hbb@karin.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange)
Subject: Re: Comments on hand blenders?
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:10:10 GMT

I have a Braun and use it often. It is marvelous for blending flour and
water, mixing diet powder drinks, stirring juices. Easy to clean: just
put its end in the water and turn it on.
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Neighborhood from hell
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:27:51 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

{In article <lgthgaINNqge@boogie.cs.utexas.edu>, swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher) writes:
> In article <1992Nov21.140321.5749@desire.wright.edu>
{ sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
>>They did not know when they moved in (the agent didn't tell them until the 
>>papers were all signed) that the plat had an owners' organization and that 
>>the Owners' Organization could make rules and regulations as to how you used
>>your land, any modifications to the house, outbuildings, etc.
> 
> Shouldn't this have been revealed by the title search?  I don't know
> specifically about owners organizations, but the title search on my
> house turned up some restrictive covenants (one racial which I assume
> is legally null, and some about building size, use and setback from
> streets).  I bought the house knowing these covenants existed.  Either
> they weren't informed that the papers they signed agreed to this, in
> which case whoever performed the closing may be liable, or the agent
> didn't reveal all he knew about the property, in which case he may
> liable.  None of this helps your friends out of their ugly situation,
> but they may be able to recover damages for their trouble.
>

I don't know exactly what happened, Diane didn't sign the papers, her
inlaws did, but evidently they either did not understand about the Owners'
Organization or else they really weren't informed.
They could sue the realtor or the title company but as far as I can tell,
right now they just want to sell the house and get OUT of there.  
When she told me that the owner of the land they wanted to buy had
gotten phone calls about them, I was appalled and puzzled.  After all,
if the neighbors want them to leave, then why are they trashing their
possible new buy?  
Only thing I can think is, some really vindictive people are involved.
 
>>I've learned one thing from all this.  AVOID ANY HOUSE THAT IS PART OF AN
>>OWNERS' ORGANIZATION!
> 
> At the very least, make sure you are fully informed about such
> restrictions before you buy.
> 

Even then, when it comes to Owners' Organizations, how things go can be
determined by who runs it.  I've heard lots of bad things about how they
can be used to harrass people, but very little about any good.  A strong
deed covenant can cover any problems, is just as inforceable, and the
land owner doesn't have to worry about running afoul of an Owners' 
Organization that may fall into the hands of the Nazi group from Hell.


Sue

> --The above comments should not be perceived as legal advice--
> 
> -- 
> Don't take life so serious ... it ain't *no how* permanent. -- Porkypine.
From: 1k1mgm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Christopher Gunn)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Info on renting/buying
Date: 18 Nov 92 10:44:44 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov18.143832.2788@meaddata.com>, dedek@meaddata.com (Mike Dedek) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.232624.26624@wixer.cactus.org>, guppy@wixer.cactus.org (Jennifer Mery) writes:
> |> I have a lot of good reasons to buy this house, but a tax deduction
> |> isn't one of them. I'm always amazed by the stress put on tax
> |> deductions. Some make little or no difference as compared to the cost
> |> (like having kids, or losing money at the stock market).

Yeah, I fed a year of projected mortgage interest payments into a
tax program and it turned out Uncle Sam was willing to pay $17 a month
toward buying a house.  BUT that chunk of interest gives you a base
for other itemizations and a lot of the 'middle-class perks' in
the tax code are structured on the assumption you have that.  I've
filed complicated returns only twice (due to causalty losses once,
liquidation of a profit-sharing fund once), and without a 'platform'
to put other deductions on, you just have to swallow hard and watch
what looked at first like wonderful tax breaks go bye-bye....

Laws are written by and for white conventional middle-class home-
owners, and if you don't fit the profile a lot of things don't
work for you.  Shame in a way, but I don't even hear the politicians
talking anymore about re-structuring the mortgage deduction into
a general housing allowance.  (Was that a Jerry Brown thing?)

Christopher Gunn	Molecular Graphics and Modeling Lab
SPAN--KUPHSX::GUNN	Department of Medicinal Chemistry, Malott Hall
913-864-4428 or -4495	University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS  66045
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: rogerv@sco.COM (Roger Vortman)
Subject: Re: DIY blown-in insulation
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:44:10 GMT


> Before you do it yourself get a bid (or 3) from insulation contractors.
> You might also check w/PG&E and see if there are any rebates. I have 
> found that contractors can do insulation installed for what you can buy
> the stuff for. Also if there are rebate from Pg&e they probably won't 
> honor them for doityourself.
>  This is my expirirence with contrating a new home. Retrofitting an existing 
>  one may be different.

We are PG&E customers, and got a $100 EGIA rebate when we got some
insulation blown in.  In order to get the rebate you had to pick from
a list of approved contractors to do the installation...which was fine
since the one that we were going to use was on the list, anyway.

However, it seems like if you think that you can do a good job, and can
save more than $100 over using a contractor, then you should consider
doing it yourself.  But first find out what a contractor would charge
just to see if it is worth your while.

Oh, and the rebate offer goes through December of this year, "or until
the money runs out"...

-Roger