From: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Subject: "Chinese-cu"
Reply-To: russil@idacom.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 06:08:02 GMT

Hi, Dwight.

>My suspicion that Ms. Jenny Shum is Chinese-cu is not based on her
>last name.  Only a Chinese-cu bigot would make that kind of conclusion.
>My suspicion that Ms. Shum is Chinese-cu is based on her assertion that
>(1) Chinese-ge = Chinese-cu and (2) Chinese-ge are a race.
>
>I know of no one, except Chinese-cu people, who believe that #1 and #2
>are true.  Ms. Shum is an example of someone who believes in #1 and #2.
>Therefore, I suspect that she is Chinese-cu; this has nothing to do with
>her last name.

Huh?

#1:  Jenny's assertion is that your distinction between Chinese-cu
     and Chinese-ge is completely bogus.  (Frankly, I agree with her.
     What am I saying?  Hell, I even put it in the FAQ.  What you mean
     by "Chinese-cu" seems to change depending on the situation.)

     This is not the same as the assertion that all ethnic Chinese are --
     or should be -- culturally Chinese (able to speak Chinese, obedient
     to parents, etc.).

     Phrasing both assertions as "Chinese-ge = Chinese-cu" is misleading.

#2:  Chinese people are an ethnic group.  Insults based on someone's being
     Chinese are called "racist", because "racism" includes prejudice
     against specific ethnic groups.  Nothing unusual (or specific to
     Chinese-cu) about that.

--
Let me try to get this straight.

(1) It's unclear what the definition of "Chinese-cu" is.  Three possibilities
    exist:

    (a) A Chinese-cu person is someone who is "culturally Chinese".
        This person speaks Chinese, and is as familiar with Chinese
        culture as someone who grew up in Chinese society.  This person
        holds the beliefs and follows the traditions of Chinese culture:
        absolute obedience to parents and other authority figures, etc.

    (b) A Chinese-cu person is someone who identifies himself or
        herself as being "Chinese".  This person may or may not speak
        Chinese, and may or may not be as familiar with Chinese culture
        as someone who grew up in Chinese society.

    (c) "Chinese-cu" means something other than (a) or (b).

(2) Under definition (a), no American-born Chinese are Chinese-cu.
    For example, you've stated that one of the beliefs of Chinese
    culture is that infant girls can be killed by their parents.
    No American-born Chinese hold this belief.  Other differences:
    knowledge of the Chinese language; belief in democracy and human
    rights; belief in individualism.

(3) Under definition (b), all Chinese-ge except yourself are Chinese-cu.
    I know of no ethnic Chinese who have assimilated to the extent that they
    don't think of themselves as being "Chinese", with the exception of
    yourself.  Therefore, Chinese-cu and Chinese-ge are equivalent,
    with the exception of yourself.

(4) Therefore, one of the following is true:

    (a) RT, Jenny Shum, and practically everyone else on s.c.a.a. are
        not Chinese-cu, even if they're Chinese-ge.  OR:

    (b) "Chinese-cu" and "Chinese-ge" are equivalent to "ethnic Chinese",
        with the exception of yourself.  OR:

    (c) "Chinese-cu" means something other than the two definitions above.

You really need to rethink your definitions, Dwight.  If Chinese-cu
really means "culturally Chinese", then American-born Chinese are
automatically excluded.  If American-born Chinese are included as
Chinese-cu, then all Chinese-ge should be included as Chinese-cu.

--
The really peculiar thing about this, Dwight, is that you keep insisting
that Chinese-ge and Chinese-cu are not the same, and that people
shouldn't assume someone who's Chinese-ge is Chinese-cu.  But at
the same time, whenever someone who's Chinese-ge criticizes you, you
say that they're just being Chinese-cu!  ARGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

(The one other thing that REALLY bugs me is that Dwight never responds
when I write articles like this.)

--
Russil Wvong
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
russil@idacom.hp.com