HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:23:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <0f=yqFO00VpNATaFlP@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>rubin@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:

>> Although I may be in the minority I believe DDs are the BEST
>> dogfighters. 
>You are in the minority.  Talk to anyone who was in the dogfighting
>tournament.  Talk to any competent CA pilot, they'll show you why CA's
>beat up DD's.

I will say that of my roughly 300+ hours of play, a vast majority *haven't*
been in a DD.  The first 30 or so were (if I wasn't in a scout) and I thought
I had the DD mastered.  I went and fought against Yea Boy!!!!! and ensign
ensign and some other good CA's every now and then in honest dogfights.
I'd say my record was about 0-40.  I quickly decided to get out of the DD.
When I jumped into a CA, my record increased to around 35-40.  I was still
losing, but it was a hell of a lot closer.

>Both SC's and DD's survive dogfights with CA's.  They pivot, then
>maxwarp.  Not too tricky, the SC has a better chance of survival
>though...

That's exactly how I'd dogfight a CA with a scout.  The DD's, though don't
really pivot fast enough.  A decent CA player should get in about 2 phaser
shots, and if very lucky, a torp.  After about 2-3 maneuvers like this,
the DD is toast.

The reason I say "if lucky" is that any decent DD pilot should never get
hit by CA torps.  I once got to the point that I stopped firing torps at
DD's except to make them dodge near me.  Instead, I'd just fly at them at
warp 4-5 and phaser them to death.

By the way, any decent CA pilot should get hit by, at most, 1 torp from a
DD.  Given this, it's a battle of phaser fire between the DD and CA.  The
DD doesn't have a chance.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: escorting/no escorting (was Re: What to do with Newbies?)
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:06:14 GMT

josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes) writes:
| It also helps to be known as someone who seldom takes planets...
| people underestimate your potential threat. Become known as a 
| planet scum, and you'll be hounded forever.

 A specialized instance of a general theorem:

	Everyone is dangerous until proven otherwise.

 Really. You never know who's playing that odd-behaving ensign,
or whether that Flight Captain 'guarding' your agri got there
by being a massive runner scum until you've seen them in action.

--
"There are far too many demented mailers out there that just love to
 rip open your envelope, scribble all over the headers inside with a
 big black felt pen, and then seal it up again and send it on [...]"
	- Henry Spencer on trusting email headers
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
From: flan@froggy.wustl.edu (Ian Flanigan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek,rec.games.netrek.illuminati
Subject: Re: Another Clue game, and weeding clue from non-clue
Date: 20 Dec 92 10:17:13 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Dec16.201204.28907@wixer.cactus.org> rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
>jasonp@bungie.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:
>>
>>BTW, what ever happened with the discussion of gravity wells 
>>vis-a-vis BB-army anti-grav units, to allow them to conquer a planet
>>faster, to make up for the inherent power-up differential
>>of the Pattern Buffer on the other ships? Can someone send me the 
>>Official Clued-Proposal Modus Operandi, I think this is
>>a great idea. 
>
>Jesus Christ.  If I see another lame brained proposal to change
>the Pattern Buffer JUST BECAUSE people can't handle the BB's power-up
>differential, I'm going to scream. [...]  The BB's power-up differential
>is just completely *useless* in that context.  I hope people stop
>talking about it on the clued mailing list.

Sigh.  I agree, yet the BBs phase stablization metric is a little out
of sync with the rest of the ships, don't you agree?  I like the
addition of the Excalibur class ships as well.  The Auto-Orions are a
nifty feature too.

BTW, I want to enhance my Clue-Client 3D prjection goggles.  Can
someone point me to some schematics?

Thanks.

-- 
Ian Flanigan

Project Zeus
Washington University in St. Louis	"You can never have too many napkins."
flan@starling.wustl.edu
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:16:59 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1ghahmINNftr@girtab.usc.edu>


echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
> In article <4f=0CvW00VB6M4h15O@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@and\
> rew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >> DD -         good for quick takes in games with rabid oggers.  good for
> >>      dogfighting.
> >Good for Dogfighting?  GOOD FOR DOGFIGHTING?!?!?  A SC is better for
> >dogfighting than a DD.
> 
> Er, no.  It's not.
Um...yes it is.

Ok, let's compare how the torp warp goes.  The SC has a *much* longer
effective torp range than the DD.  Why?  SC torps go faster, and the
SC dodges better.  So the SC can get into torp range and DD can only
phaser.  Now, DD phasers don't bring fear into the heart of SC pilots,
and the DD tractors aren't too fearsome either.  So the SC closes to
effective torp range (the DD still can't hit it with torps) and wins.
Any questions?

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of


> 5150
> we're not going to go into this again, are we...
Yes, we are.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: kumara2@nuge110.its.rpi.edu (Anuj Kumar)
Subject: Re: StarBase practice/ogg server? (was SB's as 'bots, in normal servers)
Reply-To: kumara2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:17:35 GMT

In article <WMPERRY.92Dec13174009@ugly.ucs.indiana.edu>, wmperry@ugly.ucs.indiana.edu (William M. Perry) writes:
|> Just out of curiosity, since I've heard alot about these practice
|> arenas for basing and ogging....  where are the servers? 
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 	Bill Perry
|> -- 
|> William M. Perry          / 'When you know a thing, to hold that you know it;
|> wmperry@ucs.indiana.edu  / and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you
|> Phone: (812) 336 - 3071 / do not know it; this is knowledge.' - Confucius



Well, there are quite a few practice servers out there, but the one that I know
of is at vlsi.uci.edu. Its a base ogging practice server, where you can send robo-oggers after yourself. There are a lot of things you can do, so read the MOTD once you get there.

Another server, even though it isn't a practice one, lets you become a galaxy ship ( cool ) whenever you want, its at flint.cs.brown.edu. 

                                                                     Slut

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:16:11 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<18Oj03wnc5AI00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>


fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
> In article <sfAem0K00VpaBSsF8M@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C\
> . Worsley) writes:
> >       It should be simple.  If DDs are a better ship, then the best DD
> >dogfighter should be able to beat the best SC dogfighter even if the SC
> >is a little bit better.
> 
>         STOP!!
> 
> As somebody else stated, the best dogfighting ship is the one that YOU can
> dogfight best in.  I do best in a CA.  You can argue 'til you're blue in the
> face that BB or DD or SC or (what the hell) AS is better, but IT DOESN'T
> MATTER.
> 
> Every ship has tradeoffs.  If you can use them to your personal advantage,
> do it.  But you're not going to prove anything by facing off SCs vs DDs other
> than to show that some people are better at playing SCs and some people are
> better at playing DDs.

If a lot of people using ship X can beat the best player of ship Y
that means something to me.  It makes me wonder what the people who
use ship Y could accomplish if them bothered to learn about ship X.
Your statement about a person's best dogfighting ship being the one
they know best is obviously true.  But if someone starts by learning
the AS, would you recomend they learn to use another ship for a
mission requiring dogfighting skills (like ogging someone who will
run)?  Yes.  Just because you do best in ship Y doesn't mean it's the
best ship to use, consider learning about ship X.  A fact you refuse
to ackowledge. 

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 11:36:51 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Honor & Netrek
	<1992Dec10.195830.19514@cis.ohio-state.edu>


mdm@hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
> Ged can out-base Balton, out-ogg Mucus, and out-scoutbomb sunscreamer.
Hmmm...I'll actually agree with the last one.

Sorry Felix, couldn't resist the shot... :-)

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 09:11:21 GMT


the way i look at it these days, dogfighting is mostly a way
to get a kill.  except for LPS and planet defense, BBs aren't too
great because they don't regenerate fuel fast enough and
have trouble getting away before the scavengers arrive.  CA
has a good combination of power and speed, and it regenerates
faster.  usually i have enough fuel to fight off a scavenger
(and run) after i get a kill.  DD doesn't really have enough for
a second fight, but it does have enough to run away pretty fast.
SC is okay, but is a little fragile for hunting down CAs and BBs.
you can run pretty fast, though.

SC vs BB is insane.  i can kill some good SCs in a BB and live.
and i hardly ever fly BB (about as often as SB, which is almost never).
Mojo is right, plinking isn't going to work if the BB driver has any clue.

and by the way, just because the best SC player beats the best DD player
doesn't mean SC is better for dogfighting.  it could also mean that
the SC player is better at flying SC than the DD player is at flying DD.
as Sandia said, it would be more convincing if a bunch of SCs beat a
bunch of DDs.  (no, i'm not talking about a melee, either.)

just adding some pointless comments to the fire.
i promise i will not say another word on the subject.

-teddy
estoppel
epiphany (?  dunno if it's been purged from bronco)
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: AS: How useful is it?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 22:24:33 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec14.005311.15257@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
>I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the thing I don't like about
>assault ships . . . I've been hit by a phaser on the first shot.
>I've tried going slow, going fast, tricky spin moves, and I always
>get zotted. (etc...)

I find this hard to believe, Kerplunk! once wtempd a base simply by dancing
around it in a slow cloaked AS.  He didn't get hit once.

I mean, the AS is a lot more maneuverable than the other warp 8 ship, the BB.
And it brakes a little better than the CA (i think).

>For a while, I've been considering proposing either that the turning
>ability of the assault be improved, or that the randomness in cloaker
>position be increased. I haven't decided if either is appropriate,
>which is better, or what actual values would work.

Perhaps the first.  Making the cloaker position on the galactic more random
won't help, unless you are the one making that position random. :-)

5150
From: vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: server code with upgrades?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 20:49:16 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu

The FTP list in the FAQ doesn't specify which servers support upgrades.
I am looking for something with this capability, and maybe even galaxy-class
ships. Any clues?
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:17:35 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec10.135030@IASTATE.EDU>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Dec-92 Re: This has gone too
far..... exodus@IASTATE.EDU (108)

> hmmmmm.........did I miss a scrimmage somewhere?
> vs xgolems? hmmmmmm......maybe i did.......


	It wasn't exactly xgolems.  Purple Haze, Red Shirt and Stiletto subbed
in for EEK!, Balton, and Balinor, who were out of state that weekend. 
We were all scouts.  Wyvern and ISUboy were there, but you weren't.  
	I think that theme games like that are sort of fun.  I'm waiting for
woof to make his all SC vs all AS chalange.

ZZnew guy
From: v119matc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Claus Schwinge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Psychotron
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bz92HA.HLn@cs.bham.ac.uk>, jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk writes...
>Have you heard Psychotron by Megadeth its perfect for netrek!
> 
>Perhaps there are other netrek songs :-)

I always find AC/DC "Shoot to kill" ("Shoot to Thrill"?) running through my
head...

Shoot to thrill/play to kill
I'm a man on a mission gonna fire at will etc.......

(I don't have the lyrics in front of me right now...sorry)

>			James
> 
>Commodor wibble

-Halfdane
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tangwi@ecf.toronto.edu (TANG WILLY)
Subject: Re: Yet another reason not to like the RSA client (sort of)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:16:45 GMT

Well ... to make a long story short ... when are the Eastern servers 
(ie. Bronco, rwd4 ... ) going to go RSA ...  that will be when 
I get my copy ....

willy ( snowdog (small s), spotty )
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Another Clue game-at flint
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:17:29 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Dec14.184541.62044@cc.usu.edu>, sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 	I would like to get a game going, where we can vote for everything
> *BUT* chaos, and the super DD_ATT mega long BS torps etc etc.  (the thing I
> want to try the most, is ejecting somebody from the game by votes {chuckle,
> chuckle})
> 	If you are clue, and interested, e-mail me, perhaps we can set up a 
> time, with enough clue players, to play.  (it must be by the end of this week,
> as I will leave...)
> 
> 
> 		Later
> 
> 		Lynx
> 
> 		SL7SG@cc.usu.edu


	Looks like thursday evening is going to be a good day for this.  I am
posting, because it is the easiest for me.  If non-clue shows up, it will be
easy to eject them.  BTW, we will simply ignore the voting ability for;

	chaos and DD_ATT

	Basically, this leaves us with; Topgun (what is this anyway?!?!)
Newturnn, Hidden, Borg, Vanilla, Cloak, Tractor, and Iggy.  If you don't
know how the votes work, basically, if enought people vote against it, it
doesn't (or does) work.  Such as cloaking, if everybody votes against it, you
can't.
        Oh, yea, you can also set the amount of agriplanets, and eject a
person.  If you want to play, but are unfamiliar with their system, go ahead
and stop by there, and play with the votes (how to do it is about 3 pages down
in the motd).

	The address for flint (for those who don't know) is;
		
		flint.cs.brown.edu (port 2592)

	The time is negotiable, 8:00 MT is looking good right now


	I would like to see some good clue, just because I want to try out this
voting option in a *real* game.  It is a good idea, just needs work.  (in
actuality, I just want to eject some clueless twink! ;)  )


		-Lynx
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:35:17 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec15.035524.21049@cis.ohio-state.edu>


mdm@hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
> In article <Mf=AyPi00YUoEJrYx7@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.\
> cmu.edu> writes:
> >
> >
> >Ok, let's compare how the torp warp goes.  The SC has a *much* longer
> >effective torp range than the DD.  Why?  SC torps go faster, and the
> >SC dodges better.  So the SC can get into torp range and DD can only
> >phaser.  Now, DD phasers don't bring fear into the heart of SC pilots,
> >and the DD tractors aren't too fearsome either.  So the SC closes to
> >effective torp range (the DD still can't hit it with torps) and wins.
> >Any questions?
> >
> 
>         Boy, you got sand in your head if you think you can take out
> a DD in a scout.  DDs are better equiped to dogfight, they've got more
> shields, they've got more fuel, they've got tractors that actual work,
> they have torps that actually hurt, and they've got a recharge rate to
> kill a horse.
"They have torps that actually hurt"?  Huh?  They *can't* hit a SC.  A
SC closes to medium short range and wins, you can't hit with torps, he
can.  And you're phasers are (granted more powerful than a SC), but
laughable.  Recharge rate?  The battle won't last that long unless
you're willing to run.  Tractors?  You're going to hold in place with
this powerful DD T/P then phaser me to death?  Be a little more
specific next time...
		
	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of

>         And you must have amazing aim if you can kill someone from clean 
> out at maximum range without running out of fuel long before.
Mike, try reading the post next time.  I said you shoot from just
outside the *DD'S EFFECTIVE RANGE*.  Note, that since his torps are
slower than yours, and you turn better, this is fairly close.  So you
close to just outside where he can hit you, and plaster him.  The DD
doesn't have the T/P strenge or range, or the phaser power to do much
about this. 
Any questions?

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:03:55 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec16.005835.11371@cis.ohio-state.edu> rubin@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:
>>Nope.  I do not believe that a DD will beat a scout in a dogfight.  The
>>phasers on both are fairly comparable, and the scout has the advantage
>>of faster torps and more maneuverability.  The scout torps are only
>>slightly worse.

>You have got to be kidding!  A couple of torp hits and maybe a single phaser
>hit and the scout is toast.  I love it when a scout tries to dogfight me in
>a DD, I just tractor on to him and SMACK - easy kill.

Most people don't know how to play a scout.  Try saying easy kill to Helix,
Lumchan, Mergatroid, sunscreamer, Red Shirt, and several other well-known
scout players.

A torp from a DD is only 5 points more damage.  Plus DD torps are really
slow.  I can dodge them real well with a CA.  It would seem hard to believe
that I would be hit more in a DD.

DD's phasers aren't that bad, but they aren't that great.  Plus, if I'm
anywhere near enough that I have to worry about DD phasers, you can bet
that the DD is soaking up a lot of torps.

>Although I may be in the minority I believe DDs are the BEST dogfighters.  I
>will take a fast manuverable ship over a slow ship any day.  Scouts and DD
>are both fast, but at least DDs are not made out of balsa wood.  DDs are 
>more like pine...

>>Obviously, both ships will have to run from a CA to survive, but the SC
>>is much better equiped to hold its ground than the DD is.  A typical CA

>Whatever!  A scout is history with a CA in any dogfight situation.  A DD will
>most certainly survive a dogfight with a CA if he remembers not to get in
>tractor range and is a halfway intelligent dogfighter...

I read this as ... "A DD will most certainly survive a dogfight with a CA
if he remembers not to get in dogfighting distance."  If you don't get
into tractor range, you aren't even close enough to hit with torps - unless
of course, your opponent loves sucking torps.  If you don't get into
tractor range, then I just keep pushing you back at warp 4-5 until you
either A) find a friendly teammate, or B) hit a wall (in which case, you're
toast).  I've yet to meet a person who can kill a competent CA with a
DD at least half (hell, even a third) of the time.

Try taking on any player with about 100+ hours on bronco when they are in
a fully-fueled, fully-repaired CA.  I'm sure they will prove the point.

Brian
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Another Clue game, and weeding clue from non-clue
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:45:41 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


	Ok, I was recently thinking (moan from croud) about a way to weed clue
out from non-clue, and an idea hit me.  (one includes my previous post).  What
if there was a metaserver port, that only showed clued servers.  The only way
you could get this port address, was by some undercover e-mail or something.  I
know it would not weed out *all* of the clue, but it would certainly reduce the
clue jumping in games.  (the port could be the same as 3521, but showing
certain servers, not on 3521)

	Another thought I had, was, I would like to get a clued tourney going
at flint, just to try it out.  I love the idea of voting, but...everytime you
log in, it is non-clue players.  They, without fail, have chaos mode on, and
the DD_ATT super non-skill mode also on.
	I would like to get a game going, where we can vote for everything
*BUT* chaos, and the super DD_ATT mega long BS torps etc etc.  (the thing I
want to try the most, is ejecting somebody from the game by votes {chuckle,
chuckle})
	If you are clue, and interested, e-mail me, perhaps we can set up a 
time, with enough clue players, to play.  (it must be by the end of this week,
as I will leave...)


		Later

		Lynx

		SL7SG@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU>
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:24:58 GMT

>         I would happily dogfight any scout, save sunscreamer's (some
> players are in a class all their own...)




 hah.......I'd take Redshirt over Sunscreamer in a scout any
day.....not even close.....

 Just out of curiousity, why is this topic being argued? Seems
about as silly as arguing which side has the best looking
bitmaps....



				     Exodus
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: Re: review of popular servers
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:36:57 GMT


Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>>discovery.cl.msu.edu:  Usually has the best attendance; almost always

>I guess sturgeon does not count?

Well, we WERE talking about NETREK servers.

				--Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU
				--"although Sturgeon-style net.king-of-the-hill
				     does have its occasional charms...
					and when you find 'em, let me know."

--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu    \\---//  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
     It's time to see the world / It's time to kiss the girl
              It's time to cross the wild meridian
  Grab your bag and take a chance / Time to learn a Cajun dance
             Kid, you're gonna see the morning sun... 
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA