HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Disappointed in Vatavia
From: kgassner@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:58:32 CST
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax1.umkc.edu


Greetings unto the populace of the Rialto!

Today  I want to tell you about a very disappointing experience  I 
had to make in Vatavia (Wichita, Kansas).

I wanted to attend the Yule Court there last Saturday.  The  roads 
ware  just  barely usable that day in the snow but because  I  was 
really looking forward to it I went anyway.  After a 5-hour trip I 
reached Vatavia,  followed the map on the flyer,  found  SCA-signs 
and following them I found - the closed gate of the site.

I thought, Ok, so it's been cancelled, too bad, and tried to phone 
the autocrat because I still needed the crash space I had arranged 
for  beforehand.  But there was only the answering machine with  a 
standard message.  I tried to reach the seneschal to ask for help: 
Same  thing.  And  that  was  all  the  numbers  I  had  from  the 
newsletter,  being from Forgotten Sea and rather new to the SCA  I 
didn't know a single soul in Vatavia.

So  I  settled for getting something to eat and  trying  it  again 
later.  Only when the answering machines stayed on on both numbers 
for  hours,  I got the nagging feeling that they might be  at  the 
event.  I  even  tried to find anybody who might know  what  "SCA" 
means by sheer chance, but no luck there.

Next  day before I went on the trip home I went to the  autocrat's 
place.  I found out that the event had been moved on short  notice 
and  everybody locally had relied on a hotline phone  number  that 
was  not published in neither the newsletter nor the event  flyer. 
There  was no message neither at the original site nor at  any  of 
the signs nor on the answering machines and absolutely no way  for 
one who didn't know someone in Vatavia to find out WHERE the event 
was.
 
So about $60,  9 hours on the road and the weekend were wasted for 
a frustrating day in Wichita on a wild goose chase.  It could have 
been  a  great  day if the autocrat would have  invested  about  1 
minute's worth of work for any kind of a message. I also know that 
it  didn't only hurt me but also several other people  whose  tire 
tracks and footprints I saw at the closed original site.

I  sincerely hope that this kind of - ahm - organization is not  a 
representative example for how SCA events work, because it kind of 
"reliefed" me of most of my beginner's enthusiasm.

May  this story be recalled by some autocrat at some time at  some 
place to keep this from happening again and save a lot of people a 
lot of trouble.


Still furius after two days of sleeping over it

          Ekkehart von Wartstein

who  promised  himself  to  make  a  wide  detour  around  Vatavia 
henceforth!
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: visiting Meridies
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:06:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC


	Looks like I'm going on a business trip to Atlanta GA soon. Is 
there going to be an Event near there on the weekend of February 6th?
I'd love to go to one while I'm down there.
				-Ilaine

-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	We're going to try an experiment now. Instead of using
                   | 	a loom, we're going to wind all the yarn into balls
ilaine@panix.com   |    and adopt an infinite number of kittens...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: buying chainmail link
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:55:20 GMT

In article <726404489.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Blackwolf@f7.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Blackwolf) writes:
>[...] so that i can get
>more of the commission backlog off the bench and converted into flaxscript
>[...]
	flaxscript? Who is on the linen standard? inquiring minds want to
know more!
						-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	We're going to try an experiment now. Instead of using
                   | 	a loom, we're going to wind all the yarn into balls
ilaine@panix.com   |    and adopt an infinite number of kittens...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PAULB@saturn.uark.EDU ("Paul A. Byers")
Subject: Lilies VII
Organization: University of Arkansas
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:46:34 GMT

War of the Lilies VII
Known World War
Date: June 14-21, 1993
Site: Smithville Lake
25 miles north of Kansas City, MO

The Theme of  the war will be Western Kingdoms
versus Eastern Kingdoms. The split will be at
the Mississippi River. Calontir Forces will be
used to even up the sides.The site is
Kelsey Short Youth Camp near Smithville MO.
The  site is semi-primitive, with minimal restroom
facilities, three small shelter houses,
picnic tables, and running (drinking) water
available. Showers are available just off site.
(We hope to have a new shower on site ready
by the event.) The site includes a swimming
beach and swimming in the lake is unlimited.
About 1 mile off site there is a small
convenience store, phones, and a restaurant.
The city of Smithville is on the other
side of the lake. (about ten miles away.)
and offers many services, including motels
and a hospital.

Site opens  9:00 a.m. Monday, June 14th
Site Closes Monday, June 21st 11:00 a.m.
Friday night Calontir will sponsor a feast
for everyone at the war!

    Autocrat:                     Fighting Autocrat:
    Pavel Ihaveaboot!avich        Syr Gilligan of Eire
    Paul A. Byers                 David Volmut
    220 W. Lafayette              1512 Kentucky #A
    Fayetteville, AR  72701       Lawrence  KS 66044
    (501) 443-7174                (913) 842-9238
    (501) 442-6086 FAX            Dmvolmut@Ukanvm
    PaulB@Saturn.uark.edu

Eastern Army Coordinator:*        Western Army Coordinator:*
Syr Lorell of Shewsburry          Syr Valens of Flatrock
Kevin Richardson                  Mike Jackson
8 Apollo PL.                      9817 Hollingsworth Rd.
Iowa City  IA  52240              Kansas City  KS  66109
(319) 351-5018                    (913) 334-2098

*Contact persons for their respective sides.
From: 880840m@axe.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY)
Subject: Re: recreating the middle ages
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:33:58 GMT

In article <9301091427.aa18909@mc.lcs.mit.edu> SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:

>I've got a problem with this - it involves things I regard as unethical.

>For instance, being a proper Hundred Year's archer would involve (to stick
>to the typical) a tendency to loot anything not bolted down, get roaring
>drunk (if possible), wench indiscriminately, and sometimes shoot at heralds.
>I have no desire to act like that.

 I'm sure it's perfectly period to _not_ act like this; after all, your 
description does (as you say) "stick to the typical". 
                                            ^^^^^^^
>To recreate an Arthurian romance, being a proper archer involves being part
>of the scenery, since all the characters are either noble or holy and
>sometimes both.
>I like trees, but I don't really want to be one, or indeed any other part
>of the scenery.

 I don't think it's wise to judge period behaviour on what you read in 
romances. For example, I don't think Mallory was being particularly 
realistic in _Le Morte d'Arthur_ when he had the heroes say "mercy Jesu" all 
the time and end up becoming monks in the end.

>What I *do* want to do is to be able to do what an English archer of the
>Hundred Year's War era (since I have no hope of finding out anything 
>specific about about Saxon archery, other than it existed) could do, and 
>with what (so closely as I can manage) he did it with.

>So, folks, what's *that* recreating??

 Reality?

>Maybe what we ought to say we are trying to re-create the _skills_
>of the Middle Ages and Renaisance...

 Absolutely!

                                              - Michel du Flambard
From: lcatlett@carson.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: non-fighting rulers
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:46:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i9t63INNcf7
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <726159969.F00002@ocitor.fidonet> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
>    Mackenzie wrote:
>
> C> It is us who make Royalty special becouse " WE ARE SPECIAL ".
>
>    As in "Special Olympics" and "Special Education"....
>
> * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: timsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:07:15 GMT
Reply-To: timsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy Smith)
Organization: The David Taylor Model Basin

Poklon k Rialto ot Timofeya Ivanovichya!

In rec.org.sca, kellogg@teal.csn.org (Patrick Kellogg) writes:
>I dropped out of collegiate fencing because SCA fencing was much closer to
>the true feel of the weapons used in the 1600's. The is a "right of way" in
>collegiate fencing, which never made sense to me. He/She stabbed my arm a
>second before I skewered his/her chest and I'M the LOSER?

Actually, there is some sense to this, especially if the time difference
is as great as a second.  After all, having your biceps pinned to your
triceps can really ruin a good thrust....

>I love to circle my opponent, use a cloak, an offhand weapon, and fight from
>my knees (which I do often 'cause I'm also slow)

This is one of those odd things you only see in SCA combat (as far as
I know).  Generally, if you were thrust through the thigh, you'd either
yield (if given the option) or bravely and clumsily try to stumble and
limp your way through the fight until your opponent ran onto your point
or you dropped from blood loss and shock.  Damned messy business.

A little attention to this sort of detail can make rapier combat considerably
more fun for participant, marshal and onlooker alike.  And, after all,
if we aren't having fun, why are we doing this?

Do svedanya,

Timofei Ivanovitch
Ponte Alto
Atlantia
-- 
--- Tim Smith ---  timsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil ---- (301)227-1611 ---
----- Code 1522, David Taylor Model Basin, Bethesda, MD  20084 -----
----- The Secretary will disavow all knowledge of my opinions. -----
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: blow calibration
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:42:12 GMT

In article <9301111836.AA10742@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
>
>
>There's just one thing that makes me a bit suspicious about this
>particular experiment; the pig wasn't dodging.  Also, by being tied to
>a tree, it couldn't move very much, whereas someone being hit by a
>really hard blow would be expected to absorb considerable momentum.
>Has anyone done a similar experiment with, say, the carcass weighted
>down (i.e., so its mass was approximately that of a man) but able to
>move freely?  That would be a more valid test of damage potential.
>

Of course the poor thing couldn't dodge! It was dead! :)

(More seriously, the carcass was probably also skinned and gutted, so it
gave no indication of how hard a weapon had to hit to penetrate into the
chest cavity to hit a vital organ. I really must FIND the damned
article.)

Lothar.

>Fujimoto


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown..Another question.
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:18:00 GMT

>>Have _both_ members of a prospective Royal couple
>>ever entered a Crown list?
>>Or is this explicitly ruled out?
>>
> MAC> Certainly it happens. As a matter of fact
> MAC> (Ansteorrans, please correct
> MAC> me if this is incorrect) WHen Dutchess Sir Rowan
> MAC> became the first lady
> MAC> ever to win a crown tournament, her opponent in the final bout was
> MAC> Duke Hector. Her lord.
> Yes, that's correct.  Also, Sir Elzasif was in the same list that Sir
> Finn won for her.  And in the one where they both got knocked out in
> the semi-finals.  Those are the only specifics I can think of.  I
> don't know if Regina was in this last Crown list, which her Significant
> Other won (Sutan Bloodaxe)....
>     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes Ansteorra
Gwen,
Her Highness was not fighting that day.
      Marke von Mainz, Mooneschadowe Ansteorra
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: M22079@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Axel Bandit
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:41:02 GMT

I am not surprised at Axel the Bandit's reception or his reaction to it.  The
SCA used to recruit heavily, was tolerant of newcomers, and bent over back-
wards to help new members.  I have not seen much of this recently.  The
problem is partially that the recruiting function has become officialized.
If you expect someone else to be doing it, you don't want to get in the way,
or at least you don't want someone telling you that you are unauthorized.
Listen to people on the net talking about newbies giving reporters the
wrong impression and you will see this rearing its ugly head.  The SCA was
once primarily scruffy, blue jeaned people with velour custumes, now you
need a degree in history for anyone to talk to you.  Sort of like the
problem with rock and roll.  I had a vicious argument about 15 years ago
with my seneschale about the discouragement of a member just because he
was a wee bit (OK a lot) weirder than the rest of us.  Since then I have
seen some of the more laid back members become authenticity nuts and
byzantine politics mavens.
 
Chill Out!!  The SCA is rapidly becoming a Yuppie DAR.  I am from the
education through fun camp and believe that if you drive off the newbies
you will stagnate and die a horrible middle-aged death of being the LIONS
club without the charter of doing good work.  If you want to be intellectual
there is the Academy and other academic organizations that will critique
your research.  If you want to have a party in the grand arthurian style
the SCA should be the place to go.  I say Romance before Research and style
over substance, because the SCA cannot compete in either research or substance.
 
I mourn for the good old days when it was more important to have fun than tell
people to put on the appropriate clothes.  In my HELL there will be a room
where those people will be put and they can have each other.
 
                     Lord Ian of Gloucester
                  Who believes that the most realistic facet of the SCA is
                  byzantine power structure and decision making.
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee)
Subject: Re: period firearms
Keywords: firearms
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 07:38:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.005201.16889@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Michael Squires" <mikes@cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <pa142548.621.726252148@utkvm1.utk.edu> pa142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>>
>>Do we not have this already:  many of us manufacture bows, arrows, swords, 
>>and knives.  These are also possibly dangerous products.
>
>I talked with a Williamsburg gunsmith some time ago and he said that although
>they could build guns with forge welded barrels as was done in the 18th 
>century they refused to do it for sale, as it was impossible to be certain
>that the barrel would not explode later as a crack propagated with age and
>stress.
>
>In the 16th century iron cannon were very hard to sell, as they were well
>known to be dangerous.  The British were the first to figure out how to
>make fairly reliable cast iron cannon, but they still blew up from time
>to time, even after proof testing.  This continued into the American
>Civil War (I remember a picture of a Union adminral being killed when
>a Parrott cannon blew up).
>
>The failure mode for firearms is unlike those for arrows, swords, and knives;
>the closest would be prod failure on a high-powered crossbow, but even then
>the damage would be much more limited.
>
>-- 
>
>Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
>mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408

I keep hearing this argument about the failure rate of period firearms.
I would suggest you take a look at a revolutionary war reenactment.  
The weapsons they use don't blow up.  They use replicas made with modern
materials and techniques.  I have never know the society to be so exacting
that we are worried about period materials.  Remember we have people fighting
in lexan armour.  This concept of period firearms is the most interesting
thing I have seen to come along in years.  I don't think we will ever see
period firearms in the SCA.  Which is more of a lost to the SCA than the
people who want to pursue this.  

Dale


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: 14 score yard clouts
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:18:00 GMT

Rhys:  this really isn't all that hard, it's called a field.  280 yards
(or 240 yards) is a *big* field, but this is a clout - it doesn't really
need to be level, all that flat, or even mown.  (Finding arrows in an
unmown hayfield is hard, but I could manage it as a kid.)  Big field for
southern Ontario, too - the folks in Calontir are unlikely to have a
problem...  (could scyth the clout area and around it for a bit, too -
it's a period skill...)

I, personally, don't want to see a seperate class labeled 'longbow'
(particularly not the Midrealm's poundaged based division!); I want
to see two seperate classes; one for at least two of, and one for at
least four of, the following list: self nocked arrows, tied fletch arrows,
natural fiber bowstring, straight grip, no arrow window, shelf, or rest, and
no synthetic materials in the bow.

So people with take down recurves could get into the '2 of' category
by working on strings and arrows, and the people with a little more time
or stubbornness could get into the '4 of' category.

I'd also like to note that the score drop is not extreme; ten points
or so on a Royal Round, and that this is easily corrected for by shooting
at more period marks in a more period way (these all seem to favour
instinct shooting... :]

Graydon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saundrsg@               "Praise then Darkness and Creation unfinished"
   qucdn.queensu.ca                   - U. K. LeGuin
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Even Mongols may eventually "get it".
Date: 9 Jan 93 13:50:23
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se's message of Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:13:34 GMT


BTW, Mongols DID get it : they got more of "it" than anyone
ever had, and more of "it" than anyone ever did again until
the British Empire and the USSR.

By "it" of course I mean the _real_ it : real estate !

And they got "it" the old fashioned way : they took it !
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: n9110536@henson.cc.wwu.edu (W. Douglas West)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dollar Cost of Awards
Summary: Award appeal
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:45:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1993Jan8.174555.5429
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Washington University

In article <C0GvDM.3GL@world.std.com> dillon@world.std.com (John T Dillon) writes:
>
>There is a cost involved in getting awards?
>
>  And here I was using my hobbies to justify spending money on my tool, book
>and fabric collections...  
>
>  A dangly really has little appeal compared to a set of really nice tools 
>that you know like your own hands.  Or the faithful if finicky sewing machine 
>that brings back fond memories of assorted outfits at each stitch.  Or the
>thrill of figuring out how to build your latest project.  
>
>John McGuire
>  
 
	I would like to point out that although it is indeed enjoyable to
know that *I* built this, or *I* won this tourney, or *I* helped out, it is
also enjoyable to know that your peers (small case) appreciate your
participation enough to make sure that Their Majesties are made aware of
your dedication and contribution to the Society and embodied within the
giving of an award.  Recognition by our peers is something, IMHO, that most
people strive for and appreciate.  This is in no way meant to be a flame,
just my two pence worth.
 
(St.) George Slade the Dragoon
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Axel Bandit
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:40:05 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan11.142323.5636@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:

>The most critique I will ever allow myself, if someone is clearly in mundane
>clothes, is to walk up to them and say "I have some more medieval garb, if
>you'd like to borrow it."  Commenting on a problem without at least some
>attempt at a solution, in this case, seems rude to me.

I always ask people who are in mundane clothes at events if they are in
a play.

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mwilcynski@pimacc.pima.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Need local contact info
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:04:15 GMT


I have a nephew that was recently stationed at Ft. Lewis in Laughton, Ok.
He spotted some signs in the area indicating that the SCA was active
near there and needs some contact names & farspeaker numbers in the area.

I'm hope someone that has such info can e-mail it to me sometime this week.

Many thanks in advance.

                                  ............................................
Lord Mark Lightburn               :  Mark Wilcynski                          :
     Barony of Tir Ysgithr        :..........................................:
          Principality of the Sun :  MWILCYNSKI%PimaCC.Pima.edu@Arizona.edu  :
               Atenveldt          :..........................................:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca