HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:07:51 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Nov6.001536.5571@newshost.lanl.gov> gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov
(Graham W. Redgrave) writes:

>And don't forget to put down your cattle prod (oh, sorry, "sword"), too.  Who
>made you liberator of the bored?  Who told you they wanted to be liberated?
>_My_ humble guess is they just want a new, more glamorous sedative. 

They're free to pump their veins full of any substance they want.

>More importantly, who in his or her right mind [to assist in the overuse of
>a current net.logism] could think that it is possible to liberate someone else
>from his or her habits?  _You_ didn't bring the ideas to _me_ that have 
>raged in my soul ever since I uncovered them between their unassuming book
>covers.  Idiot.  You can bring an Idea to a Yahoo, but you can't make him
>think.  And some of us were thinking before you messiah-ed yourself into
>the role of Idea-cheerleader.  "People used to care about Ideas".  Really,
>you sound like Clayton Cramer from the 18th century.

And Clayton sounds like such an amiable fellow, too.

>What's worse is the fact that you used someone else's post as the target of
>your tirade, as if, by impugning another's spirit, you could elevate yourself
>to the circle of the chosen (whoever they are).

Choose thyself.

>Gross.  Look what a mess I made.  I'm sure I misinterpreted Marko's words,
>ad hominem attacks are uncool, etc., etc., but this is still pissing me off
>after three days, and there's not an idea at the root, but self-aggrandizement,
>therefore a person, a self.  I apologize for the public loss of control
>but not, I should quickly add, for the message in the puke.

And I thought that Americans wouuld have gotten used to self-aggrandizement
after all these years.  Perot, Trump, Trumpanova, Michael Jackson, how many
big egos do I have to name?

>Yours cordially, despite an overabundance of bile,

Ah, yes... Now, excuse me while I try to stop laughing.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:19965 rec.arts.poems:11247 soc.culture.french:8430 talk.religion.misc:20928 alt.feminism:4251
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.poems,soc.culture.french,talk.religion.misc,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Advice to the World Weary
From: sneering@husc11.harvard.edu (Stanley Sneeringer)
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:34:37 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Keywords: Boris Vian, Bison Ravi

In article <BxJ7x2.IG2@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.014151.17237@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.141447.25733@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
>>amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>>
>>>Mikhail Zeleny, l'autorite supr^eme dans l'art de s'eduire, cites:
>>
>>MZ:
>>>       La femme est ce que l'on a trouv\'e de mieux pour remplasser
>>>       l'homme quand on a la d\'eveine de ne pas \^etre p\'ederaste.
>>>		--Boris Vian
>>
>>MA:
>>>Est-ce ceci correspond `a ton exp'erience ``Harvardienne''?  Voici une
>>>petite chansson compos'ee par mon jumeau bien aim'e...
>>>
>>>	J'SUIS SNOB
>>>
>>>	Refrain 1
>
>etc. etc.
>
>Perhaps your discussion of women/men/child-molesting, your cute 
>snob song and the ensuing battle of quips are more appropriate 
>to alt.hasty.pudding.revue than to alt.feminism?
>
>Don
>-- 
>beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Thanks for the Arthur Ransome Tip
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:54:56 GMT
Organization: Austerlitz, Gershovitz, and Carmichael

Thanks for the discussion about Arthur Ransome's books. Kids'
books which can draw my son into reading are few and far between.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu>
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Musing about Ransome
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:43:58 GMT
Organization: It's Home, really...
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Oliver Sharp (oliver@dougfir.CS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
> changed since we first encountered them as children.  Any other Ransome
> fans want to jump in?
>
> Some of my favorite moments:
>
>   _We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea_, the crossing.  As Francis recently
> mentioned, the crossing during the gale is wonderfully evocative.  The
> confusion and despair of a terrible muddle under oppressive gale winds -
> if you've ever been stuck outdoors somewhere uprepared in the midst of
> wretched weather, you will know whereof he speaks.
>
    ...and the difficulty John has making the right (adult) decisions, to
go to sea and not try and head for shore, while having to break a (childs)
promise. Not worded too well, sorry.
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                 Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
               she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: fake accents
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:08:01 GMT

fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes:


>                                                 One who reads a given
>language knows perfectly well where the accents go; one who doesn't read
>it will not be helped by fake accents.

   If I came to your house for appetizers, would you mind if I cut
myself a piece of your pate?
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: rueful meta-remarks (was Re: popular fiction vs. literature)
Summary: Three cheers for Fiona, Forster, Houseman and archy
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:57:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bx9BC7.9so
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

Interestingly enough, Housman wrote a sequel to "taste for death"
which specifically deals with the net. It follows herewith:


Some read a file and then press "k",
But I needs must have my say.
There's this to say for rec.arts. books
It proves the adage "Too many cooks. . . "

On other matters, why don't we start alt.fan.fiona? 
Somehow, Ms.  Webster seems to sum up everything I want to say but have
neither the prowress or the nerve.

On other other news, I just started reading HOWARDS END. Does this
make me an official member of the r.a.b.ble?

John A. Nickles
Standard Disclaimer: Purdue has no opinions whatsoever       
"ONLY CONNECT"
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matthew E. Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Torturing Politicals (was Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved)
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:14:39 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matthew E. Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
>
>>There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
>>raw material for humor?  Like what?
>
>Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.

In point of fact (if not good taste), there is a regular bit on the
Nickelodeon Canadian-produced ostensibly children's show "You Can't Do
That on TV" (which brought us "sliming") that shows one or more of the
show's child-star hosts hanging in irons being tormented (at least
verbally) by one of the adult castmembers dressed as a banana republic
military officer. It also features regular firing squad skits with the
same characters. 

Not exactly what Amnesty International has in mind, is it?

If one were to argue that this is not as reprehensible as making a musical
comedy of _Midnight Express_ or _Missing_, my reply would be that
by trivializing the issue on children's television, this is even
worse.

Matt
I don't think Candice Bergen starring in a sitcom based on Mother Theresa's
missionary work would be very funny, either.
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: If Ripley were alive, he'd die
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:50:46 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

One or two weeks ago Tina's new NYer had a long, long article on viruses
in general and one particularly nasty one in general. It described the
agonal stage of the disease, with the brains of missionary nuns literally
melting in their skulls, and blood squirting from their eyeballs and
nipples. This was not breakfast table reading. My question is this: was
this one of those typically overly long pieces of self-indulgent reportage
that we have come to expect, or was it just a giant Hallowe'en hoax?

							Fido
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:02:34 GMT
	<WARKENT.92Nov9131714@ltisun14.epfl.ch>
	<1992Nov11.101846.3221@genie.slhs.udel.edu> <7ycq0hm@lynx.unm.edu>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu's message of 11 Nov 92 23:42:46 GMT

To badly translate Bergson, it is not so much that Man is an animal
that knows how to laugh but that Man is a funny animal.
No aspect of human existance is immune from a humourous treatment
and laughter is impossible only in heaven or in hell.

"Always look on the bright side of life."
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall)
Subject: S.I. explained
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:07:52 GMT

Earlier someone queried as to what is S.I. in re my posting on a
book about the Situationists. When I responded it appears I lost
text of my message and only my name appeared.

S.I. stands for Situation Internationale, the "official" name
of the Situationists.

In re if someone should care, I say you should care only if
you are interested in a group that helped bring down
the government of France in May '68

Andrew Hall
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Zeleny's dark secret? (was: Advice to the World Weary)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:48:46 GMT

hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:


>Mikhail Z. is single-minded in his efforts to prove to the net.world
>that he is a Eurosnob.  He makes me suspicious.  I bet he's hiding 
>something.  I bet his favorite record is Randy Travis' Greatest Hits.  

I hear from an unusually unreliable source that Mikhail is a great fan
of Wayne Newton.

Regards,
       H. Biesel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Florence King
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:38:39

Florence King had an article in _The Atlantic_, or was it _Harper's_,
some years ago about rednecks that struck me as an appeal to prejudice,
a fashionable prejudice among the liberal public of the time, but
still prejudice, and intellectually and morally no better than expressions
of prejudice against blacks or Jews.  Are the enthusiasts for Florence
King sure she isn't simply massaging their prejudices?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: sjk@netcom.com (Shel Kaphan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Cairo Trilogy
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:53:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Just finished reading the recent translation of The Cairo Trilogy by
Naguib Mahfouz.  (This includes the books "Palace Walk", "Palace of
Desire", and "Sugar Street").  Has anyone else out there read these?
I thought they were splendid, and haven't had such an involving
reading experience in quite some time.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:41:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Remember folks, BillyBob Moyers is an ordained Baptits minister.
(sorry  should be Baptist)...
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Those Sexy Finns (was: Advice to the World Weary)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 6 NOV 92 00:52:48 GMT

Marko Amnell writes:

>At least Francis knew that 85% of all men 
>are womanizers...  But, no shortage of servicers here. 

I visited Finland once, and my fondest memories are of Finnish men.  Sexy
devils they were.  Robust.  Perhaps it comes from eating things like
silakkapihvit, kalakukko and lanttulaatikko, not to mention hernekeitto every
Tuesday (or is it Thursday?).  Or perhaps it comes from centuries of
practice, through the long dark winter when there were no VCRs, and amusement
was had either by smiting your enemy with your axe so his eyeteeth rattled on
the ice, or by being inventive with your mate.  Markku was a foxy Finn, dark
like a medieval woodcut, with eyes that turned up at the ends.  He showed me
the best uses of a sauna.  He wouldn't agree to teach me Finnish, though.  I
really wanted to learn Finnish, but whenever I mentioned this to people over
there, they would nod and then change the subject.  The Finns are very
polite, in the same way that the Scots are: they never want to say anything
that will directly disappoint you, so they change the subject.

Markku was the one who recommended that I read THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER by Vaino
Linna.  He asserted that it was a great Finnish novel.  While I can't say it
was a great work of art, it was certainly a great work of history, and easily
the most horrific war novel I've ever read.  Almost every character in the
book is killed off by the end, some of them in spectacularly gruesome ways. 
Not the kind of book you forget.

Another thing I won't forget is actually *buying* the book.  That book and a
paperback edition of the Kalevala amounted to close to $70.00.  Once I had
figured out the Finnmarks, I fainted dead away.  Luckily every bookstore in
Finland is equipped with a crack team of paramedics who are trained for these
situations.

Anyway, Marko, I'm still interested in learning Finnish, since it's one of
the most beautiful languages I've ever heard.  So if you know of any Finnish-
for-English-Speakers books (I looked for them but couldn't find them), please
let me know.  Or you can change the subject.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Need more of Carlos Castaneda
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:21:20 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Nov3.153557.29410@news.nd.edu> jortiz@schumann.helios.nd.edu (jose ortiz) writes:
>I posted here a couple of weeks ago asking for any
>information regarding Castaneda.  I got a couple
>of interesting and helpful responses that left me
>craving for more.  So if you know anything about
>Castaneda and particularly, whether the Don Juan
>books are fact or fiction, let me know.  Personal
>opinions will be more than welcome.  I would
>deeply appreciate it!!!
>

Richard C. deMille wrote 2 books on Casteneda.
The Don Juan books are fiction, a gemisch of
eastern ideas (zen, Tibetan) and shamanism cooked
up by Casteneda.  The deMille books are pretty
fascinating stuff.  He's found out a lot about
Casteneda (not his real name).  Casteneda is
a real trickster and put it over on USC as well
as a lot of his readers.  




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:19582 soc.culture.french:8291
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: A Small Election-Eve Diversion [was: The Trut
Summary: the tits of edith cresson
Keywords: Nichael Nichil Nichon
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:50:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov6.045008.17160
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <5NOV92.15203991@vax.clarku.edu> 
hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

>>ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) writes:

>>>mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>>>Francis Muir writes:

>>>>Nichael Cramer writes:

NC:
>>>>>[Fido has a hissy fit and Mark responds.]

FM:
[...]

HH:
>>etc 

MT:
[...]

HH:
>>etc

NC:
[...]

HH:
>>etc

NC:
[...]

HH:
>>etc.

HH:
>Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

Never.

HH:
>Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

You are dating yourself again, Heather dearest.

HH:
>I hope you don't take this personally, Mikhail, but you really
>don't have to quote at such extreme length from the entire history
>of every thread. 

I know.  I like to.

HH:
>		  The repetition is annoying -- something like being
>trapped in a rehearsal hall listening to a troupe of echolalic
>actors trying to perfect a scene.

Sounds like fun.

HH:
>				   Don't worry, I'm sure most of
>us can follow who-has-said-what without your exhaustive attribution.

To be sure.

HH:
>And you write:

MZ:
>>Is there anyone, and I do mean *anyone*, who can think of a *good*
>>reason to care about the gender of the redoubtable Nichael Cramer?

HH:
>Gosh, Mikhail, you spent all that time and space on attribution just
>to work up to this bon mot? 

Indeed.

HH:
>			     Wow.  Things must be kinda dull over
>at Harvard, eh?

Yes.

HH:
>The obvious answer, of course, is Nichael him/herself.  

Nah, I asked for someone with a *good* reason to care.

HH:
>							My bet is that 
>she's female and it's pronounced "Nichelle".  Am I right?  Inquiring
>minds want to know.

Actually, it is an Olde English eponym of its bearer's sexuality, which is
accordingly pronounced "Nichil".  For reasons best left to inveterate fans
of William the Conqueror, the Gallicized version is spelled "Nichon", thus
evoking the habitual conflict between grammatical and biological gender,
which is endemic among the trans-channel face-fuckers.  And that flouncing
flash-in-the-pan frog bitch dared to claim that the forthright *Brits* were
notorious homosexuals!

HH:
>Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

Still stuck in the Seventies, you poor thing...

>Heather
>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
>"It's like deja vu all over again." -- Yogi Berra

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
" -- I shall speak bluntly, because life is short."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Private lives, public persons
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:25:50 GMT


Francis Muir writes:
 
        In discussing a recent biography of the poet, Anne Sexton,
        Mark Taranto raised concerns over the use of her psychotherapist's
        notes and recordings of conversations that took place in the course
        of treatment. It seems to me that the questions of legality and
        propriety should give way to the wider question of privacy. An
        author publishes stuff, not herself.
 
                [Quotation from Peacock on using sound judgement
                 in deciding what to put in a literary biography,
                 and what to leave out -- such as that which might
                 injure the living and that which the subjuct
                 would want left out.]
 
        Why not grant Anne Sexton the same favor?
 
There is ample evidence that Anne Sexton was granted this favor.
 
Sexton was not only obsessed with death, but obsessed with her
place in literary history after death.  She kept all of her papers,
well aware that they would be found when she was dead.  In her
therapy, she had talked about writing books which she did not intend
to be published -- so that they could be found and published after
her death.  Dr. Orne writes, in the introduction to the Biography,
that his primary concerns about releasing the tapes were the wishes
of Anne Sexton's daughters, and what he believes Anne Sexton would
wish.
 
As I mentioned, Anne Sexton's poetry is referred to as "confessional."
In her case, it seems that her private life WAS her public life.  That
is so much nicer than the other way around.  I'm reminded of Auden's
dedication to Stephen Spender in THE ORATORS:
 
        Private faces in public places
        are kinder and wiser than
        Public faces in private places.
 
 
 
Mark
 
 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:19955 sci.philosophy.meta:2527
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein's PI
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:15:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov11.201518.17359
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1992Nov11.233954.7782@eff.org> 
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.212854.9969@news.columbia.edu>
>dth2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David T Ho) writes:

DTH:
>>I was told that Wittgenstein's _Philosophical Investigations_ has gone
>>out of print.  Is this true?

Wishful thinking.

MG:
>Sounds as if someone is playing a language game with you.

At least, unlike Saint Ludwig's own case, the game in question 
is not one of five-finger solitaire.

>--Mike

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
" -- I shall speak bluntly, because life is short."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.music.misc
From: shmulevi@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Ilya Shmulevich)
Subject: a book by Godley and Creme
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Godley, Creme, Book
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 03:17:55 GMT

Hi,

I am trying to find the book 'The Fun Starts Here' written by Godley and
Creme (of 10cc). I know that it is published by Arrow Books, but I can't
seem to order it from my local bookstore. Could someone suggest a source
where I can obtain this book?

Please answer by e-mail, since I do not regularly read this newsgroup.

thank you,

  ------------------------  Ilya Shmulevich  ----------------------------
  shmulevi@ecn.purdue.edu |                 | shmulevi@physics.purdue.edu
  Electrical Engineering  |                 | Physics
  Signal Processing       |                 | Systems Programmer
  ------------------------ Purdue University ----------------------------
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Test
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:12:18 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

	
					Francis Muir	
francis@sep.stanford.edu	
					Morning becomes Electric
					Then I wake up.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY)
Subject: Re: Algernon Blackwood
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:37:22 GMT


hey, don't you have a church around here?

----->		SubGenius) writes

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books