HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dclunie@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: HELP !! Two suns, a MILAN 10BaseT hub & transceivers
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:03:38 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au


I have two sun sparcstations, an IPC and an SS 1. I want to connect them
together using the ethernet ports. I am pretty certain I have set the
software up on each correctly.

I bought two Milan transceivers, and a little 4 port (expandable) hub
and some cable and plugged everything in, et voila ...

It didn't work ! The two tranceivers have jumpers for LINK and SQE
(neither of which I understand the purpose of) and I tried all possible
permutations. Still no success.

The hub had jumpers to turn off its thinnet port, I did that ... still
no success. It had jumpers for MAU (whatever that means) or hub and
I twiddled those, still won't work.

When I "ping" from one machine to another, the little "transmit" light
on the sender flickers, but the receive light on the other transceiver
does not. Same thing happens in reverse.

Called the local (1000 miles away) distributor and they said try a
"null modem" style cable between the tranceivers and forget the hub
(wish I knew that before I bought it). Still didn't work though.

They now say maybe I have a bad transceiver and to ship everything back
to them (more delay :( ), but before I do I just thought I would ask
and see if there is something really obvious that I am overlooking here.
My experience with ethernet to date has been a hole in the wall that I
plug into and everything works, so I expected this little exercise to
be the same. I was surprised when there was absolutely no meaningful
documentation supplied with the transceivers and hub.

I am certain of the sun end of things, otherwise I presume I wouldn't
even be able to get anything transmitted when I "ping". Furthermore
the arp tables are empty so no arp packet is being received back.
Even if I manually insert the appropriate arp table entries to provide
ethernet addresses it still doesn't work.

If anyone has any suggestions ...

Thanks ... david

-- 
David Clunie (dclunie@itd.adelaide.edu.au)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: swhite@tybse1.uucp (William C. "Spike" White)
Subject: another 10BASE-T <=> 10BASE2 connection question
Organization: Tybrin Corporation, Shalimar, FL
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:29:55 GMT

I've been following this 10BASET <=> 10BASE2 discussion and am afraid
I may have missed something.

We have a NeXT computer we want to hook up to a 10BASE-T LAN.  We're 
purchasing a D-link hub and, since the NeXTstations don't come w/ a
10BASE-T connector, I have been assured by at least two separate distributors
that I can purchase a $30 10BASE2-10BASE-T balun.  It would go on the back
of the NeXTstation and do the impedance matching to allow me to connect to
the existing 10BASE-T wiring.  

In fact, these items may have already been ordered.

Now I'm getting worried.  The original poster specifically stated that he 
wanted the cheapest solution possible.  Will this balun approach not work?  I
KNOW a AUI-to-thinnet transceiver will work, but this is a pilot,
proof-of-concept project I'm doing here and I need the cheapest reasonable
approach. 


-- 
Spike White     Tybrin Corporation, Shalimar, FL   | Moderation in all things --
spike.white@tybrin.com                             | and abstinence in none! 
Disclaimer:  The guys down the hall disagree with everything I say! Guess 
	     who speaks for the company. 
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.lans.ethernet:2058 comp.sys.mac:337 comp.sys.mac.comm:9440 comp.sys.mac.hardware:17861 comp.sys.mac.system:12300
From: mlevins@metz.une.edu.au (Martin Levins)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: Macs on EtherNet bombing simulateously (with corrections)
Date: 22 Sep 92 06:29:55 GMT
Reply-To: mlevins@metz.une.edu.au
Followup-To: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Originator: mlevins@metz.une.edu.au

From article <1992Sep16.191111.26060@cumin.telecom.uqam.ca>, by berstel@mipsmath.math.uqam.ca (Bruno Berstel):
> We have a FastPath gateway to AppleTalk for other Macs and some
> LaserWriters.  What happens is that from time to time (thrice today --
> that's too much for one to bear) all three Macs on Ethernet bomb ("Sorry,
> system error 3 occured") at the same time. One of the three of us connected
> his Mac on AppleTalk after the second bomb and didn't bomb the third time;
> neither did the AppleTalk Macs ever bomb.

I have experience a problem very similar to this when some of the
(thinnet) cables were faulty. We solved the problem by replacing the cable!

> 
> One reason why we don't know where to dig is that the third Mac was totally
> idle all day (except for the reboots :-(), and lauches no network-oriented
> program (like Easy Alarm or MacX); all it does is share a folder. A
> suggestion from one of us was a bug in Apple's EtherNet card that would make
> the Mac bomb when it has to deal with some packets... As you may see, we're
> quite perplex.
> 
This sounds like the same sort of problem that we had.

Unfortunately, the sort of intermittent cable problem is difficult to trace,
so perhaps you could try another (known good) bit for a while and
see if the problem reoccurs?

I'm assuming that you *are* using thinnet.

Cheers


Martin Levins                               Internet: mlevins@metz.une.edu.au
Director of Computing                                     Applelink: AUST0479
The Armidale School                                      Phone: +61.67.738219
Australia                                                  Fax: +61.67.738230
From: anil@quiver.enet.dec.com (Anil Rijsinghani)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: spanning tree bridge specifications
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:28:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <c94TRB1w165w@major.panix.com>, dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea) writes...
>Not to play devil's advocate, but.. What if a particular bridge is not a
>necessary part of a spanning tree? ie. a bridge connected to an
>end-point on the network? Or one for which no alternate path exists? The
>example of a single bridge passing information across a long-distance T1
>might not have an alternate path, nor would any of the bridges on the
>other side of it. Would it not be better to have this bridge ignore - or
>not even pass - reconfiguration messages?
>

    End-points can only be transient, as is precise knowledge of
    the current topology.  Add a repeater, or a bridge, to even a
    moderate-size extended LAN and these assumptions change quickly.
    Note too that any bridge not in a purposely configured loop is a
    potential network failure point, easily avoidable.
    Besides all this, stp gives increased manageability/visibility.

    agr
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Ethernet address of 00: 00: 00:00:00:00
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:05:52 GMT

In article <booth.13.0@lub001.lamar.edu> booth@lub001.lamar.edu (John Booth) writes:
|In article <slendt.51@.unomaha.edu> slendt@.unomaha.edu (Steven Lendt - Data 
|Comm) writes:
|>Subject: Ethernet address of 00: 00:00:00:00:00

|>Our network analyzer has found a Novell file server that says
|>it's physical address is all zeros.  [ ... ]

|An all Zeros Ethernet Address is a type of broadcast used by Sun workstations
|and other (older) TCP/IP implmentations. The standard now is pretty much 
|all ones (FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF), although most TCP/IP implementations will 
|still give you a choice between the two. 

Geez. All this time, I thought an all-zero IP address was the old broadcast
command, instead of the Ethernet hardware address.

You sure about that, John?

-- 

Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chairman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"...I looked out my window, and saw Kyle Pettys' car upside down, then I
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au (Paul W. Brooks esq.)
Subject: Re: Slow ethernet performance
Summary: About right
Keywords: slow thinnet tcp ftp
Organization: University of New South Wales
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:06:48 GMT

In article <202@ucla-an.UUCP>, daveh@ucla-an.UUCP (Dave Hammond) writes:
> 
> We have a thin-wire ethernet with 10 connected hosts (a combination of
> 386 and 486 PCs running DOS, SCO Xenix or ATT Unix, and several HP-3000
> minis running MPE/XL), running TCP/IP.
> 
> According to ftp statistics, the time to transfer a 1024kb file between
> any 2 hosts averages 12 seconds (86 Kb/s).  Over several tests, the
> times range from a worst case of 15 seconds to a best case of just
> under 10 seconds.  These transfer rates seem especially slow, in
> comparison to the rates typically quoted in other news articles.
> 
> I have checked the netstat -s output on our Unix and Xenix hosts,
> and they do not show any great number of error packets, retransmitted
> packets, etc.
> 
> What are some possible causes for these poor transfer rates?

Actually, they are about what I see here, between PC-based machines. It
seems the rate is almost entirely determined by the speed of the
receiving disk-drive, which on PC-class machines makes it about 55-100
K/sec, although a decent disk cache that caches writes might help.
Between a 386/20 DOS PC and a DECstation 5000, I get around 60K/sec
towards the PC, and 210 K/sec to the DECstation. Try FTPing files to
/dev/null on the Unix boxes, and to NUL: on the PC, and see what rate
you get then.

> --
> Dave Hammond
> daveh@anes.ucla.edu


Paul Brooks        |Internet: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au
Uni. of N.S.W.     |If you have trouble sleeping, try lying on the end of
Kensington NSW 2033|   your bed. With a little luck you'll drop off. 
AUSTRALIA          |                              - Mark Twain.
From: jdm1@vogon1.pasen.gov (Jonathan D McCown)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: 10BaseT != 3-Com Multiconnect (interesting stuff)
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:33:08 GMT
Organization: Vogon Poets Society



We have run across an interesting characteristic of the 3Com Multiconnect
repeater (10BaseT Hub extrordinaire).  Apparently the Multiconnect hub
was designed before the 10BaseT Standards were finalized, and while the
Multiconnect is compatible with 10BaseT: IT HAS PHENOMINAL RUN LENGTH
CHARACTERISTICS WHEN USED WITH 3COM NICS.  (much better than other
"standard 10BaseT" equipment that we've tested).

Despite the  whining of our 3Com reps that we shouldn't mess with such
things, it is a fact of life that not all cable runs are short, nor is it
very easy to get permission to string cable in historical buildings.
We've driven runs up to 650' reliably (we use a router at one end) without
problems using Multiconnects-- futility incarnate with other gear.
It is also interesting that these runs are over telco 200 pair trunks :-)
The docs rate Multiconnect 10BaseT up to 200m.  (We need every inch) 

I am curious as to the degree of "weakening" the 10BaseT spec underwent
in the committee process.  Other vendors would stand a much better chance
with us if their gear could "go the distance."

The Multiconnect manual lists separate distance specs for "3Com" and
802.3 in all categories of Ethernet (base T,5,2 not BROAD) which basically
DOUBLE the distances set by the spec.  Maybe this is one for alt.conspiracy.

- Jon
  (I don't work for 3Com but I'm real curious why they don't claim to
   suport extended distance these days.)
-- 
            J.D. McCown - Computer Services - Senate of Pennsylvania  
psuvax1!vogon1!jdm1                    "You don't want to get locked into   
jdm1@vogon1.pasen.gov                   'open systems'." -anonymous IBM Rep.    
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 23:23:24 GMT
Subject: Re: ThickWire repeaters...
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet



    >We are considering using thick wire ethernet to connect two buildins
    >on our campus. Later on we are going to replace it by fiber optics;
    >but the easiest way and the fastest for us presently is to create a
    >thick wire connection.
    >Our thick wire cable may be near the maximum lenght that I believe is
    >1 km.

Maximum length for a 10BASE5 segment (thick wire) is 500 m.  If you want
to go 1 km, you should use fiber.

    >Could you please help me sugesting the best way to extend it.
    >I think I can use repeaters to enlarge it with another km or so. Is
    >this true? Could you point me to some repeaters?
About the maximum size you can get to with repeaters is 2.5 km (such as
5 500 m segments at least two of which are fiber).

I have (in the distant past) seen lightning arrestors that would work with
10BASE5.  Many will not.  The problem is that most arrestors present a
fairly high shunt capacitance to the cable which causes reflections
that can interfere with communication. 

I too would recommend going to fiber.

Pat
From: macewan_h@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Packet Driver for 3C503
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:56:32 GMT
Reply-To: macewan_h@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz


Can anyone tell me where I might find a public domain (free) Packet 
Driver (for use with WinQVT/Net say) for a 3Com 3C503 card (not using 
shared memory for data transfer?

Or, in case that request cannot be satisfied, suggest which of the 
shared memory addresses would cause the least trouble.  I use QEMM and
can exclude memory (if I know how much is used).

The options are listed as: c8000h, cc000h, d8000h, or dc000h

Plus would anyone have advice on routing with a BR3000 which is connected
(19.2k serial line) to an IB3?  I don't think it should work, and so far
it doesn't.  Bridges just fine, but routing, no.
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: kirchner@uklira.informatik.uni-kl.de (Reinhard Kirchner)
Subject: Experience with switching plugs?
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:52:09 GMT


Hello,

as you all know, when on ethernet one opens the wire, the net is down.

To overcome this there are now various systems of plugs on the market
which close the ( thin ) wire when the cable is unplugged.

I know about such a plugging system from AMP, and some others having plugs
like the german telefone plugs.

Does anybody have experience with such ethernet plugging systems ?

I heard about breaking outlet cables etc., but these opinions where second
hand.

Thanks for any answer.

Reinhard Kirchner
Univ. of Kaiserslautern, Germany
kirchner@informatik.uni-kl.de
From: pat@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Pat Thaler)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 23:08:50 GMT
Subject: Re: 10BaseT cabling question
Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: ? Relating collision, utilization rates
From: brown@lincoln.ac.nz
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:19:38 +1200

We're just trying to get the feel of our newly acquired Lanalyzer.
On one strand, it's showing 1% collision rate for 35% utilization rate;
we didn't expect the collision rate would be so high.  On another strand,
for 10% utilization rate we're getting 0.25% collision rate.

1)	Is this normal ?

2)	The lion's share of our load is Novell, with a small amounts of DECnet,
	IP and Appletalk.  Does anyone have information relating expected
	collision rate to given utilization rates for this type of load ?

Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Martyn Brown, Senior Computer Consultant          Phone: 64.3.3252811 extn 8012
Centre for Computing and Biometrics                 Fax: 64.3.3252944
P. O. Box 84, Lincoln University                 Pacnet: 05301.30000047::brown
Canterbury, New Zealand                 Bitnet,Internet: brown@lincoln.ac.nz
From: craigo@ESD.3Com.COM (Craig Owens)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: 10BaseT != 3-Com Multiconnect (interesting stuff)
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:28:26 GMT
Organization: 3Com Corporation

In article <1992Oct2.203308.2239@vogon1.pasen.gov> jdm1@vogon1.pasen.gov (Jonathan D McCown) writes:
>
>
>
>I am curious as to the degree of "weakening" the 10BaseT spec underwent
>in the committee process.  Other vendors would stand a much better chance
>with us if their gear could "go the distance."
>
>The Multiconnect manual lists separate distance specs for "3Com" and
>802.3 in all categories of Ethernet (base T,5,2 not BROAD) which basically
>DOUBLE the distances set by the spec.  Maybe this is one for alt.conspiracy.
>
>- Jon
>  (I don't work for 3Com but I'm real curious why they don't claim to
>   suport extended distance these days.)
>-- 

The 10BASE-T spec was written with silicon in mind.  That is why 10BASE-T
products are now so cheap.  The analog specifications were written so that
they could be met easily by a digital IC design.  In order to go extended
distances, you need tighter controll of the analog parameters, which can
only (inexpensively) be done with a discrete design, or with an analog IC. 
3Com's first 10BASE-T products had discrete transceivers and were able to 
support longer distances.  However, ethernet chips have become more 
integrated and it's no longer possible to be price competitive without a 
one-chip solution.  This is why we no longer support that feature.

Craig Owens
Network Adapter Division
3Com

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: fcawth@wam.umd.edu (Alfred B. Cawthorne)
Subject: NI5010 ethernet board
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:49:28 GMT

Does anybody have any information about this card?  I have 2 of them which
I would like to write 386bsd drivers for, and I have the source for the 
packet drivers.  Unfortunately, I do not have any manuals, etc... and I need
to know the jumper settings for some nice addresses, interrupts, etc...
Any email would be greatly appreiated.

Fred.

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Ethernet address of 00: 00:00:00:00:00
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 22:45:07 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <booth.13.0@lub001.lamar.edu> booth@lub001.lamar.edu (John Booth) writes:
>An all Zeros Ethernet Address is a type of broadcast used by Sun workstations
>and other (older) TCP/IP implmentations. The standard now is pretty much 
>all ones (FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF), although most TCP/IP implementations will 
>still give you a choice between the two. 

You're confusing IP and Ethernet addresses.  The Ethernet broadcast address
has always been FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF, and everyone -- even Sun :-) -- agrees
on this and always has.  It's been part of the Ethernet standard since the
first spec, Dec/Intel/Xerox Ethernet 1.

(If one really wants to be fussy, the original "Experimental Ethernet" at
3Mb/s within Xerox had a different broadcast address, but since it only
had 8-bit addresses, that's hardly surprising...)

00:00:00:00:00:00 is not a broadcast/multicast address and has no special
significance.  It probably indicates a programming error somewhere:  some
stupid piece of software is reprogramming the hardware's Ethernet address
(the first mistake -- that's seldom necessary or desirable) and is doing
it from an uninitialized variable (the second mistake).
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: unrz38@epix.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (Eduard Beier)
Subject: Re: 10baseT <-> BNC adapter availiablity
Organization: Regionales Rechenzentrum Erlangen
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:03:45 GMT

leonard@telcom.arizona.edu (Aaron Leonard) writes:

>In article <1992Sep25.074754.1@ptavv.llnl.gov>, oberman@ptavv.llnl.gov writes:
>|  
>| There is only one "standard" way to do this. Most companies which make 10baseT
>| equipment including both Cabletron and Synoptics have boxes which have both and
>| RJ-45 and a BNC. They are really a single port repeater which must be counted
>| in the repeater count, but they do the job.
>| 
>| Cheap? Depends on you definition. Seems they run about $300 and require
>| external AC power. But they give you a full 10base2 coax that can support
>| multiple devices. We use them both when we need 10base2 and when we have
>| several pieces of equipment in a single room with only one data port.

>There are actually two kinds of devices out there which have an RJ-45 on
>one side and a 10base2 BNC on the other.  

>One kind is NOT a repeater but a "media adapter" and steals from the 10baseT 
>run's jitter budget in order to pass the signal onto its 10base2 coax run.  
>Such devices run around $250 and claim to support a variable number of ThinWire 
>stations / variable length of 10base2 depending on the length of the 10baseT run.
>For example, the David Systems 6211-00 device claims to support a 37 meter
>ThinWire segment with 6 stations if it connects to a 70 meter 10baseT run,
>but if connected to a 90 meter 10baseT run it only supports 1 meter of ThinWire
>with one station.  These boxes are NOT "officially sanctioned" 10baseT devices,
>but are described as "plug and pray".

>The other kind, to which Kevin refers, *is* a true repeater and will support
>a full 29 stations on a 185 meter ThinWire.  Its disadvantage is that that it
>increases your repeater count ... which can be quite significant in a 10baseT
>network with tiered concentrators.

>Aaron

>Aaron Leonard (AL104), <Leonard@Arizona.EDU>
>University of Arizona Network Operations, Tucson AZ 85721
>|>   If it ain't broke, break it.




I think, that this devices (baluns) count in the 4-repeater-rule as 1 hop,
because they can cause a delay, compareable with a repeater. 

beier@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
From: leifa@ifi.uio.no (Leif Arne Neset)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: Re: Experience with switching plugs?
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:59:08 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Originator: leifa@bera.ifi.uio.no



> 
> I second that.  The AMP stuff looks good, but you do get flakeys on it very
> easily.  Also, the insulation-displacement connections used behind the 
> faceplate _look_ good & easy to install, but in practice are pigs.  Give
> me BNCs, a crimper & a good pocket knife any day for thinwire work.  10base-T
> is _much_ easier to deal with for office wiring and has the distinct advantage
> that one person stuffing up their link leaves everyone else alone.  
> 
> --
> Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                      don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
> Network Manager, Computing Services Centre          don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
> Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand.           +64-4-495-5052


I've installed both the AMP system and the Telegartner system. The
latter is much better designed. There is a good mechanical
locking of the connectors. I've had problems with the AMP system and
the "drop cables" falling out of the wallplate. No problems with
the Telegartner system. Telegartner also uses BNC connectors for their
wallplates.

	Leif Arne Neset 			leifa@ifi.uio.no
	Comp. sci. dep.
	University of Oslo
	Norway
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: rjohnson@eastrg1.cray.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Transceiver Monitor 
Keywords: ethernet, transceiver, monitors 
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:58:10 CDT

I would like to build a simple inline transceiver monitor, with leds for power, collision, xmit, and rcv. Can I just
hang a led with a resistor accross the appropriate pins 
of the DB-15 (MIL-C-24308 or equiv) ??