HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trigg@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Colour?
Date: 16 Sep 92 10:10:28 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <banks.716530526@csuvax1>, banks@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Corey Banks) writes:
> 
> 	I really hate white (or cream) computers,  so can I get a black case and
> shove the new A4000 in it?  Will C= release a black version of there computers?
> (how about a red one, cause it goes faster ;-)

Yep, a black case option would go down pretty well.  Might not look quite as
classy at the NeXTstation I'm typing on at the moment, but it would go a 
long way.  Red could be for the '050 version.


> 
> --
>     _-_|\     Corey Banks.           Okay, so what can I put in my sig? 
>    /     \                                         - Corey              
>    *_.-._/    banks@murdoch.edu.au   All my bits are down there, anyway!
>         v     corey@home.bed.zzz                   - Torban             


Len.
trigg@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falc
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:53:33 GMT

In <1992Sep9.212610.28937@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer is
>a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the Intel CPU.

No, nothing.. indeed ;-)  *chuckle*

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:24273 comp.sys.amiga.emulations:3961
From: SBACIR2@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.emulations
Subject: Re: Utilities Unlimited vs NewTek's cottage industry paradigm
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:47:07 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: University of Florida, NERDC

In article <1992Sep11.102952.1039@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:
 
>In our conversation, this NewTek person said that everyone asks:
>"Why doesn't NewTek grow?"  But then said in a perturbed tone:
>"...we can't find creative people.  Creative people are hard to
>come by.  You just can't find creative people these days..."
 
  Consider Amiga vs Mac vs IBM market sizes.  It would take a very unusual
creative person to want to develop for the Amiga.  The market share is so
small.  For the same amount of effort a very creative person can develop
a MAC or IBM product which will provide much more monetary return than an
Amiga product.  Just look at the Mac and IBM magazines.  One of their mags
has more ads than you see in AW and AC for an entire year - that's market
power.
 
  If you look at WordPerfect Corporation's decision to leave the Amiga
market, you see this demonstrated.  If the market existed WP would have
upgraded WP 4.1 to outperform Final Copy or ProWrite in GUI.  As it is
it outperforms them and the others in everything but GUI.
d.GAP
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Date: 14 Sep 1992 01:22:49 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>>das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>>philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:

>>[...]
>>>>I excluded DOS extendors from your list. There are few programs which use them.
>>>>I actually own 2 (Gauss and S+). So they bypass the OS. Let's stick to DOS
>>>>and Windows, say.
>>
>>>Yes, I think Windows has a limit of 4 megs.
>>
>>4 megs of what?

>RAM.  I think that Windows allow executables up to 4 megs.  Phil Mc disputes
>this, but I don't notice (limitations).

I don't think so.  Although I've never seen an executable that big,
Windows programs can address 16 MB in 64k segments, some even have a
32-bit address space, using a kludged-in .dll.  Besides, it's possi-
ble to have an executable much bigger than the address space using
overlays, the unreal demo is one .exe file 2.3 MB in size.

-- Nan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 16:25:52 GMT

If I might make an observation, I think that the solution of the A3000,
namely having both interlaced AND non interlaced displays, seems to solve the
problem quite nicely. I thought this was a buried issue. My only very minor
complaint about the deinterlaced display in 3000s is that there is a half of
a scan line at the top that flickers a little on our 20" multisync monitor
here at work. It might also be nice to have more memory in the screen buffer
so that the mouse pointer didn't jitter when you move it fast over the screen.
Other than that, the deinterlace system gives a nice display on the AMiga
for average users, and there's still the interlaced display output for those who
need it for video and so on. I really can't understand how people can possibly 
find any fault with this very sensible setup.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: number of infinite loops
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 12:01:26 GMT

In article <65493@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>>Never been any such thing as an infinite loop. Never has been, never will be.
>>
>>        On the contrary:  at any given moment, there are an infinite number
>>of infinite loops being executed.
>>
>>        I dare you to prove me wrong.  Nyaaahh.
>

Okay...

- There are a finite number of computers in the world, C

- There exists a set of C elements, P containing the 
maximum number of processes that can be run simultaneously 
on each of the C computers.  Each of the elements in the 
set P is a finite number, as any computer can only run 
a finite number of processes simultaneously due to
memory restrictions.

- Any process can only be executing a single infinite
loop at any given instance in time

Therefore the highest number of infinite loops
possible, I,  is:

         C
         ----
         \
I =      /    P(i)
         ----
         i=1


Go on Skip, prove my assumptions wrong! :)

>TomK@cup.portal.com
>Tom Krotchko


-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas)
Subject: Re: User interfaces--Workbench and WPS
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:42:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep14.133906.42978@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>The Workplace Shell in OS/2 2.0 is based on the Common User Access 91
>standard put out by IBM.  It is heavily based on the object oriented

Oh that's amusing.  The company creates its own standard, and then, as if
by magic, a Workplace Shell comes out fitting the description.

Workbench 2.0 is based on the Workbench 1.0 "standard" from '87 and the
Amiga User Interface standard published in '91 (or was it '90?)

>desktop model.  Is Workbench 2.0 object oriented?  

That's another amusing thing.  Tell you what, you define what "object-
oriented" is, and I'll tell you whether Workbench 2.0 is or isn't.

>By the way, the CUA 93 specification will probably have voice recognition
>and other neat stuff. 

User access should be independent from input devices.  I'm not familiar
with this CUA stuff, sorry.  So is this a spec about implementation, support,
or yet another way to interact with your computer?  It would be fascinating
if they got it even close to correct in '93 -- I mean, how many voice
recognition systems have you seen around?  User testing?  ;)
It'll be a good starting point, though, probably.

David C. Navas						dnavas@oracle.com
Working for, but not speaking on behalf of, Oracle Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: sunga rettaf Confirmation
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:24:23 GMT

2575brooksr@vms.csd.mu.edu (Ryan K. Brooks) writes:

>Also, the specs make mention of a optional SCSI adapter...  I am
>not sure if that means a Zorro 3 card or something else.  BTW,
>don't say AA anymore,  its AGA for Advanced Graphics Architecture.

It would be a ZorroIII card.  The name would have changed due to the illegal
postings.  

>Ryan Brooks
>2575brooksr@vms.csd.mu.edu

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ecarroll@maths.tcd.ie (Eddy Carroll)
Subject: Re: World of Commodore summary, 9/12, part 2 (LONG)
Keywords: new chipsets, WOC
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:15:14 GMT

cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
>>	I just got back from the second day of the World of
>>Commodore show in Pasadena, and today was definitely
>>more impressive than yesterday.

Understatement of the week! :-)

[ Lots of amazing stuff which leads me to believe that Eggebrecht had too much
  to drink on Friday Night. I _really_ hope CBM management follow through on
  all this! I'll even forgive them for not including a DSP in the base A4000. ]

>Absolutely awesome stuff! 

You said it.

>All we can do to help is buy an A4000, which I will be doing if I hear good
>news about future employment this week...

I certainly have my eye on one.

>>As to how far along these things are, Eggebrecht
>>says they're close to working silicon, but would not
>>give any dates at all.  
>
>I find it hard to believe this incredible break from
>the Amiga architecture is almost in working silicon
>when it has taken so long for the AGA chipset

This is the bit I really wanted to reply to. At the European DevCon in
Milan this time last year, they had the first silicon versions of the AA
chipset on display, and were showing 1280 x 512 HAM8 pics. They looked
awesome. (The intervening year was most likely to get bugs out of the
chipset and get the system software to support it fully written.)

So I can quite believe that they've had a team beavering away for the past
12 months (or longer) on this new chipset who are almost ready to show
something for it.

The only thing is, I hope people won't put off A4000 purchases in the hope
that all this stuff is right around the corner. I'd say the chances of
seeing any of this next generation stuff before 1994 are pretty close to
zero.

Eddy
-- 
Eddy Carroll      ----* Genuine MUD Wizard  | "You haven't lived until you've
Internet: ecarroll@maths.tcd.ie             |  died in MUD!" -- Richard Bartle
From: kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:06:26 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <10667547.116.715404106@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.001252.11581@athena.cs.uga.edu> kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson) writes:
>
>>The Falcon030's "PDS" (as it's come to be called) is just a set of 
>>connectors which bring out all the 68030's address/signal/etc. lines
>>so that they can easily be accessed.  It's not a proprietary bus or
>>anything like that, but just a feature to make it easier for others
>>to design peripherals that need direct access to the 68030 rather
>>than having to do their own hardware hacks to get access to the
>>68030.
>>
>>Steve
>
>Oh, I see now.  I guess it's kind of the edge connector on the GVP 
>68030 and 68040 combo boards, the boards that you need to be able to run the 
>EGS chip set on.
>
>So it's not a bus, but how many gizmos can you attach to it?  I doubt if the 
>GVP EGS has a pass-through and the same would go for the Falcon stuff.
>
>A nice fast bus and slots would have been better...
>
>Interesting...

"How many gizmos can you attach to it?"  That depends on the gizmos.
Sure, a "nice fast bus and slots would have been better", but how many
bus slots can you fit into a few square inches?  That's what the 
upcoming desktop-model Falcon's are for -- people who *NEED* the added
expandability of VMEbus slots, etc.  How many bus slots does the A800
have? <grin>  Everyone here is comparing the A4000 with the Falcon030
and it seems rather silly since the Falcon030 is merely the low-end of 
Atari's new machines.

Steve
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: SCSI Vs. IDE?
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:40:47 EDT
 SF-Bay.ORG> <1992Sep11.170528.25807@cs.mcgill.ca><BuFHLn.JGA@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <BuFHLn.JGA@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
says:

>storm@uriel (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:

>I'm more concerned with the fact that you can't daisy-chain IDE drives.  1
>controller per drive.  I enjoy the fact that I can plug up to six drives into
>my Amiga, as well as other devices (assuming I can get drivers) like scanners,

Two IDE drives are supported per cable (daisy chain). However, your point
is still valid -- IDE in the A4000 is really dumb when you consider that
C= already had a good SCSI design. You can always count on Commodore to
abandone a good thing. :-(

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: a4000 specs? who know
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:09:04 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>Similar drives? Did you compare them side by side and see if the quality of
>the construction was the same, the transfer rate, the error handling, and so
>on? If you did, you'd find the price difference negligable. Try comparing the
>price of drives that come in both SCSI and IDE versions.

>SCSI drives cost more because they're better drives to begin with.

  That's horseshit and you know it!  You couldn't give me a Seagate drive,
SCSI, IDE or MFM, they're all crap.  And Maxtor makes IDE drives, same
hardware, different electronics.

  -jack-
From: dwong@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:34:03 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Sep14.052718.9878@cco.caltech.edu>, jsurace@cco.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace) writes:
> 
>   Well, I was at WOC saturday. Although I was somewhat depressed about the
> A400 before I went, I left VERY impressed. The reasons are:
 
[Lots of opinions about AA chips and new graphics capabilities deleted...]

> 3) 2.1 & 3.0. A few big improvements. Disk cacheing. But mostly the
> shared color palletes impressed me. I've often wondered why they didn't do
> this earlier. There is now a fairly sophisticated color allocation system
> for squeezing the most out of the chips. Pictures now dynamically share their
> palettes, and even try to match their color to ones already used if no more are available. I saw 8 different 32-color images opened on a 64 color screen.
> All of them looked very good, although by the 8th there was some minor
> color degradation.
> 

Now this colour management capability of 2.1/3.0 sounds great!  Besides the
driver type interface to Intuition and Graphics libraries for DIG I thought
that this was one of the next most difficult jobs to get done for DIG to
materialise.  Device Independent Graphics may not be that far away after all...

It might actually make sense to forget about the concept of screens now that
applications can share the Workbench palette.  Just have all your applications
run on one screen...  I always admired this feature in Colour QuickDraw on 
the Mac (okay they didn't have screens - maybe they COULDN'T have screens 8^).
Just an opinion anyway.

Looks like I'll have to start saving my loose change up for this machine...

> 
>                                                - Jason Surace
>                                                 jason@ipac.caltech.edu
> 
> 

BTW, anyone have any solid hardware details on these chips?  If so, please move
this discussion to comp.sys.amiga.hardware, inquiring minds must know!  Thanks.

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Derek Wong.                    | While we're waiting for the worm to turn,  |
| Computer Science Dept.         | while we're waiting for everybody else to, |
| University of Waikato,         | come around to our way of thinking, I      |
| Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND.         | think we've found a way that it could be...|
| Internet - dwong@waikato.ac.nz | -- Bourgeois Tagg                          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23963 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13876
From: Wizard0@cup.portal.com (Asher Wizard Feldman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: FINALLY!  THE MARC BARRETT POSTING TRANSLATOR!!!
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 16:22:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I compiled this thing on my unix system, and its realy a riot. I've
added 12 new phrases to it too.. Its too bad though that lex won't
make code that can be compiled on an amiga.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:33:05 GMT

boberg@lysator.liu.se (Stefan Boberg) writes:

>>> >Since there is a modular CPU design, Jim Dionne mentioned they might
>>> >consider a RISC board. (por favor!)

>>> This Risc board idea sounds like a pipe dream to me - especially since
>>> 3.0 has more of the OS downcoded into assembly.

>>They should have spent the money they spent on THIS improving the compiler.

A RISC board would only be of use to a UNIX box.  NO SOFTWARE AT ALL would run
on it, if used for a general amiga.
Perhaps a RISC unix machine is in the works?

>  Really? How could they possibly? SAS makes the compilers CBM use, and
>CBM has nothing to do with the actual development. BTW, they DID improve
>the compiler; SAS/C V6.00 is supposed to generate much better code than
>older versions. Even better than GCC which generates fairly good code.
>If the entire OS was recompiled with the new compiler quite a lot must
>have become faster anyway.

SASC 6.0 is supposed to produce 20-40% faster binaries than 5.10a or Manx.

>--
>Stefan Boberg - AP & EE student at Linkoping Institute of Technology, Sweden
> Author of LhA, ArjA and LhArcA. Co-author of Alien Breed, Project X, Full
>  Contact and Miami Chase.
>    EMail: boberg@lysator.liu.se, lha@augs.se       FidoNet: 2:204/404

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Distribution: comp
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 17:07:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.4477.28381@dosgate> "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com> writes:
>
>Has anyone who has been to the show
>asked about when AGA Chipset will be available for the Amiga 3000 and if
>it will work in on an Amiga 500/2000!

   The AGA chipset, while backwards compatable software-wise, is not a 
drop-in replacement for the old classic and/or ECS chipsets. The pinouts of
the Lisa are radically different, and all are full 32-bit. 
   In order to move forward, you often have to make a break with the past.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Some random thoughts on the A4000
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:56:37 GMT

Holt@cheme.washington.edu (Brad Holt) writes:
>   While we are on the topic, why in the world is there only 16Mb available
>of fast ram??  This is supposed to be the top of the market machine!

I think this is just another method of cutting costs as with the IDE drive.
The real power users can always add more RAM with an expansion card.  Check
out the issue of AmigaWorld which discusses the ultimate A3000 setup; the
machine has 114 MEGS of RAM!

Some might say that the A4000 is not a top of the market machine unless
Commodore releases Unix for it...

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:27:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.145829.2591@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

[ ]
>>
>>What exactly do they offer that's more?
>
>	For the same price, Gateway 2000 has an EISA 486 50mhz system with
>  32 bit SCSI controller and 340meg SCSI HD.  More ram ( 2meg ).  System is
>  a Tower version, not desktop.  Hicolor SVGA graphics card that offers 
>  higher resolution.

Yet another mail order clone. Oh well...Does the video support OS/2? These
486 systems sound great until you use them.
 
Try, by the way, putting an ISA MPC upgrade kit into the EISA bus and see
what happens. That will add a bit of money to the cost and may or may not
work.
 
16bit graphics on a PC are useless unless you are using Windows or it supports
OS/2 and you have applications for it. I see no reason for high colour graphics
on a PC. Local video and ISA are quite enough for what the machine was intended
to do.
 
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:36:21 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>In article <copes.716442907@marsh> copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope) writes:

>> AmigaDOS is very efficient.  All those people who want resource tracking and
>> memory protection, you will slug AmigaDOS up, turning it into OS/2.

>Not so. You can have a VERY efficient system with resource tracking and memory
>protection. There are real-time OSes out there that run like AmigaOS with
>all these tricks. VM is tougher, but if it's optional on a per-process basis
>it's fine. What clog up Macs and PeeCees is years of forced backwards
>compatibility to some really STOOPID system software. 

	Actually this very question was asked at the WOC to Peter
Cherna.  His response was the opposite of yours -- VM is
pretty easy to do, but MP would slow the system down and
be hairy to implement.  He also questioned the need for
resource tracking and said something about how some system
resources already are clean (Gadtools was the example).
He said C= wanted to spend more of their time and money
on something they felt was much more important -- retargetability.

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)