HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty-kun)
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:13:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.071713.15582@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, kuchar@buast7.bu.edu (Tom Kuchar) says:
> 
> >Paramount did a nice pressing of  the letterboxed edition.  They 
> >removed the  subtitles of the Klingon dialogue off the picture and
> >placed it in the lower black bar.  This was the first time I saw
> >this in a movie release on Laserdisc.
> 
> 	I _hate_ that!  Those bloody fools at Paramount did the same
> thing to the letterboxed edition of _The Hunt For Red October_.  When I
> saw the film in the theatre, the subtitles did not appear somewhere
> below the screen -- they were actually _on the screen_.  So, why put
> them in the black area on home video?

Assuming you're serious:
	If you compare the P&S and LBX versions of RED OCTOBER, you'll
	note that the subtitles for both are exactly in the same place.
	The people at Paramount re-mastered the subtitles for video
	(probably because the film subtitles wouldn't look "right" on
	the P&S version).

At any rate, I PREFER the subtitles outside of the picture area.  They
don't block the picture, and the black background makes them easier to
read.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
From: unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (tuu)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: Laser disc and video
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:51:28 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


In article <chrisco.18.713676927@emx.cc.utexas.edu> chrisco@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Cooley) writes:
}Also, apparently, SVHS in freeze-frame only gives 1/2 of the scan lines
}(~200) as when it's playing normally.  There's absolutely no comparison of 
}the freeze-frames of SVHS to the stills, drawings, and freeze-frames on the 

	Could you please elaborate on this? Are you just saying that VCRs
do freeze-field most of the time rather than freeze-frame (which requires
some memory in the VCR to store the other half of the frame)?

	I thought most Laserdisc players also did freeze-field rather than
freeze-frame.

	If you are referring to something else entirely, please explain. 
Thanks.
-- 
/unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu   used ADB trackball WANTED          Apple II Forever!\
\Mail me:Get INFOCOM GAMES RERELEASED,ULT VI GS done,for UNIX GS&CHEAP CD info/
What the world needs now is another folk singer like I need a hole in my head.
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: Who Framed Roger Rabbit questions
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:21:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1992Aug13.153154.17494
Distribution: rec
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Aug11.090553.29765@sco.COM>, davidv@sco.COM (Uncle David) writes...

} 1) is the CAV edition the only way to get the film in a letterboxed
}    format?

Yes.

} 2) what is the correct aspect ratio for the film?

2.35:1

} the credits claim it was filmed in Panavision, yet it appears to have
} been transferred at 1.85:1 for the CAV version.

Actually, it's quite a bit less than that. On my screen (allowing for an
overscan factor of about .05), it measures 1.65-1.70:1

} was it filmed in panavision, and the sides cut-off for theatrical
} presentation?

No, there'd be no sense in that. Flat photography is so much simpler to
deal with than scope photography (Panavision) that no filmmaker would
bother to shoot in Panavision unless he definitely wanted it in the
scope ratio. Even then, a lot of filmmakers have taken to shooting in
Super 35 rather than in a scope process.

} also, the jacket claims that it's presented in a matted-screen format,
} which would indicate to me that in fact it was shot full-screen, and
} matted for presentation in the theaters, and when they transferred it
} to video they opened up the matte, at least for the CLV edition. i'm
} really confused here...

No, it's definitely not an open-matte. For one, the full-screen version
does not have more top and bottom picture than the letterboxed version,
which would be the case if the full screen was open-matte. For two, there
are instances of noticible panning-&-scanning on the letterboxed version
(eg. the scene with Eddie in Toontown falling toward the ground along
with Mickey and Bugs). This panning-&-scanning would also eliminate the
possibility that the film was actually shot in Super 35, regardless of
the Panavision credit.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: JFK = Still Defective!
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:05:15 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

Curses! I bought JFK today since it was on special locally for $39.95 (this is
Canadian bucks, y'all understand...the regular price is $69!). My player won't
go to the ends of sides 1, 2 and 4! What a pissoff. Does this qualify as "laser
lock"? What happens is when it gets to the end (or as far as it will go), it
goes back several seconds into an endless loop. I've had this happen before
with disks that were over 59 minutes and 40 seconds because my ancient LD-700
won't go beyond that point (don't ask why, I've tried to fix it by cleaning the
rods the laser mechanism sits on). But JFK doesn't approach that limit. Sides 1
and 2 are around 54-55 minutes, and side 4 is somewhere between 40 and 45. I
checked out side one of East of Eden, which goes well over 58 minutes, and
there was no problem there. Does anyone else have this problem? I have about 90
laser disks, and aside from the above-mentioned mechanical problem, which only
affects 3 or 4 disks, I've never had this problem with any of them.
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:56:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.071713.15582@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes...
[quoting article about moving subtitles to the lower band on a letterbox disc]

} I _hate_ that!  Those bloody fools at Paramount did the same thing to
} the letterboxed edition of _The Hunt For Red October_. When I saw the
} film in the theatre, the subtitles did not appear somewhere below the
} screen -- they were actually _on the screen_. So, why put them in the
} black area on home video?

Boy, talk about strange complaints.

The reason subtitles "did not appear somewhere below the screen" in the
theater is because there *isn't* any "somewhere below the screen" in the
theater. That subtitles need to be placed on the image is a necessary
evil (hell, that subtitles are needed at all is a necessary evil).

In the case of letterboxed discs, there *is* space below the image, and
therefore placing the subtitles on the image is *not* a necessary evil.

Besides, placing subtitles against a solid black background makes them
easier to read.

} Any text that appears in the picture (subtitles, credits, et cetera)
} belongs in the frame of the film itself, precisely where it was in
} the theatre!

Methinks this is being purist beyond all reason.

Unless, of course, you're just yanking our collective chain...

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
From: chrisp@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Chris Pelkie)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:18:19 GMT
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

Now this brings up a question that has bothered me:
Anyone out there have direct experience with the new widescreen TVs (NOT HDTV!)?
My understanding was that one could "expand" letterboxed images to better fill the 16:9
ratio. I believe Thompson has sold these in Europe, though try as I might I couldn't find
anywhere to see one in Paris, Zurich, or Montpelier.

The question is: will I have control over the amount of expansion (and thus reading
drop titles in the black bar will be no problem), or will the box detect the black
area above and below the image area and do some automatic and probably wrong
picture adjustment  on letterboxed movies?

I'm really looking forward to the supposed introduction later this year or early next
in the US by RCA or widescreen TV! HDTV is wonderful: I've seen it many times
at the past 3 SIGGRAPHs, but I don't have $40,000, nor a collection of HDTV LDs
to watch, so I couldn't care less about that, but as a consumer who loves his
letterboxes, I'd like a better ratio screen.
-- 
Chris Pelkie
Scientific Visualization Producer
Cornell Theory Center
Ithaca, NY 14853-3801
chrisp@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Subtitles in black bar ( was Re: SUBTITLES )
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 09:55:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.071713.15582@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:
>
>In a previous article, kuchar@buast7.bu.edu (Tom Kuchar) says:
>>Paramount did a nice pressing of  the letterboxed edition.  They 
>>removed the  subtitles of the Klingon dialogue off the picture and
>>placed it in the lower black bar.  This was the first time I saw
>>this in a movie release on Laserdisc.
>	I _hate_ that!  Those bloody fools at Paramount did the same
>thing to the letterboxed edition of _The Hunt For Red October_.  When I
>saw the film in the theatre, the subtitles did not appear somewhere
>below the screen -- they were actually _on the screen_.  So, why put
>them in the black area on home video?  Any text that appears in the
>picture (subtitles, credits, et cetera) belongs in the frame of the film
>itself, precisely where it was in the theatre!

I'm for original versions too, but this is a different case. In the theater
there is simply no black bar whey you can add the titles for simple translation
issues ( not credits etc. ). You have to put the titles over the image and
thereby remove image information. If the director is aware of that he will put
nothing important in that area, but this doesn't make the location of the
titles in the image a virtue. It's done out of necessity, not for artistic
reasons. The ideal solution is no titles and a multilingual audience.
On the LD with letterboxing you have the option to leave the image untouched,
and I can't see why it's such a bad idea to do so. I certainly prefer this
approach unless the titles are specifically designed to build an artistic unity
with the images ( by appropriate fonts and interactions of title and image ) as
it is the case for the normal credits.
								M.H.
From: rjn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:38:44 GMT
Subject: The Archival Film Disc
Organization: Hewlett-Packard/WSY Ft.Collins,CO,USA
From: tzung@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (tzung-i.lin)
Subject: mini LDs review (5 of them)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:18:54 GMT

I recently rent 5 new releases LDs, and thought someone else might
be interested in their quality before purchasing them, so I 'll post
some mini-reviews on the pressing and so on.  No spoiler.

1. Naked Lunch

David Cronenberg's film is presented in 1.33:1 ratio.  No idea 
what's its original ratio.  The transfer and color are all very good.
An interesting movie, maybe can make a good double bill with Kafka (sp?)
If you like the movie/novel, this disc is worth purchasing.

2. Madome Bovary
Claude Chabol (sp?) film, also 1.33:1, probably P&S from 1.66:1.
two disc, three sides.  The picture is very "faded" in color,
I don't know whether it was shot that way or was due to a 
bad master or transfer, maybe both.  I was very disappointed with
the picture.  If you can rent it, rent it before buy it.

3. The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover
Peter Greenaway's masterpice doesn't get what it deserve on LD.
It is about 2.2:1 (maybe more) widescreen, but the transfer is
bad, blurry, color is bad, resolution is not good either.
Anyway, a very disappointed disc.  Needs lots of improvement.
But at least it's letterboxed, unlike Drowning by Numbers 
or Belly of an Architect which are P&S.  I hope they do it right
for Prospoero's Book. BTW, any plan for this PB onto LD?

4. Hearts of Darkness
Eleana Copora's documentary about the making of Apocalypes Now.
A must see for any Apocalypse Now fans.  The documentary itself
is 1.33:1 ratio with footages from the movie in 2.0:1.
Some documentary shows footages not used in the movie: the final
bombing/explosion of the Kertz's camp/temple, the encounter with a group
of French along the river.  A very good documentary, reminds me
alot of a documentary film about Werner Herzog's Fitzercaraodo.
Worth the $35.

5. Meeting Venus
A movie about opera, music, love and more.  A very entertaining film,
but the transfer seems grainy at times, other than that,
a very good disc with lots of music and the lives of those musicians.
Oh, it's 1.85:1 letterbox.

Tzung-I
From: dps@otter.hpl.hp.com (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:55:34 GMT
Subject: Re: casablanca
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases

In rec.video.releases, eric.walker@channel1.com (eric walker) writes:

>      Ted Turner must be a BIG fan of laserdiscs, because his laserdisc
>      marketing department a lot of effort into releasing the best discs
>      of the classics around, at prices that must be making Criterion
>      furious.

The cynical might maintain that he puts a lot of effort into producing the
best possible b&w print so that the colorisation process will work well.
Excellent LDs is the benefit LD fans reap from this questionable practise.
I think he can only keep the price low because the company owns the copyright.

>      (In addition, Turner is offering a "Return To Rick's" sweepstakes
>      form with the new release of "Casablanca," with the grand prize
>      being a trip to - where else? - Paris and Casablanca, where the
>      winner visits the real-life Rick's Cafe Americain.)

Bwah ha ha! There never was a `Rick's Cafe Americain', it was built after
the war to cash in on _Casablanca_ :-)

Duncan
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: bates@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Andrew Bates)
Subject: Re: Who Framed Roger Rabbit questions
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:32:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.144806.28667@bilver.uucp> bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
>
>However the nudes scenes in the theatrical version have been cut
>from the video.  I suspect these were also cut from the
>broadcast too.

    Pardon me, but where were there nude scenes in the theatrical version?
I don't remember any....

	Andy Bates.
From: otto@jybox.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 02:19:00 EDT
Organization: Jyvaskyla Electronic Mailbox

datri@convex.com (Anthony A. Datri) writes:

> See that "Star Trek VI" in the Subject?  Those subtitles are obviously part
> of the movie itself, since the Klingon language is made up on the fly.

Well, actually they do have some kind of a rudimentary syntax and dictionary
for it (so that certain key phrases etc. always come out the same), and there
is a "real" Klingon dictionary in print for the true fans.  I'm sure 1E6
other trekkies will fill in the errors in this.

Talking of titles... are Closed Captioning devices available separately
(let's say something to plug into a text generator), or only as a part
of the TV ?  The reason I'm interested is I have several friends who have
some problems picking up spoken english though they can read it well
enough.  As a LaserDisc fan, I'm intrigued by the possibilities...

The standard TV technology over here in PAL land doesn't cut it, as
subtitling is TeleText, which is a whole other bag of fish...

   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jybox.jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:48:47 GMT

In article <DyBoPB14w165w@jybox.jyu.fi>, otto@jybox.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes:
> 
> Talking of titles... are Closed Captioning devices available separately
> (let's say something to plug into a text generator), or only as a part
> of the TV ?  The reason I'm interested is I have several friends who have
> some problems picking up spoken english though they can read it well
> enough.  As a LaserDisc fan, I'm intrigued by the possibilities...
> 
> The standard TV technology over here in PAL land doesn't cut it, as
> subtitling is TeleText, which is a whole other bag of fish...
> 

Radius use to have a device called Radius TV (I don't believe they make it
anymore) that allowed you to play TV broacasts on your Macintosh.  The cool
thing about it was that you could select a search string which it would keep
watch for and when it found it (in the closed captioning) it would
automatically open up the TV window on your screen.  We used this during
the war in the gulf to keep up to date on the news.  We used "Desert
Storm" (or was it "Gulf" -- I don't remember) as the search string and the
TV would pop up whenever there was a news break!

The close captioning, incidentally, was often quite bad with lots of
mispellings and they couldn't always keep up -- things would be left out....

Steve
From: adammot@ltrnativ.UUCP (Adam Mottershead)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Wayne's World
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 19:26:14 EDT
News-Software: FSUUCP 1.2 R4
X-Mailer: DigiQR 5.38b
Reply-To: adammot@ltrnativ.UUCP (Adam Mottershead)
Distribution: world
Organization: The All Ter Nah Tive Un Der Groend

Well, I went out and bought my copy of Wayne's World today.  Pardon my
english, but it was an 'excellent' movie.

Anyways, I noticed on the back of the cassette sleeve it says "Some Music
Has Been Changed For This Videocassette".  Now, I never saw the 'original'
in the theatre, can anyone tell me what has changed and maybe why?

--
Adam Mottershead                      |
39 Havelock Drive                     |
Brampton, Ontario                     |             adammot@ltrnativ.UUCP
Canada, L6W 4K8                       |
+1 416 454 8597                       |
                                                                          --
From: datri@convex.com (Anthony A. Datri)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: SUBTITLES (Re: Star Trek VI -- Additional Footage?)
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:45:24 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>Another side effect of the subtitles in the black bars, is that when the new
>16:9 tv's come out next year that automatically cut the bars off to fit the
>screen, our beloved subtitles will be cut right off.  that sucks big time.

But cutting off the edges of the picture won't suck?
-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: When will 'Paris is Burning' be released on video??
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:41:42 GMT
Organization: Sporadic and incomplete

cathys@ingres.com (Cathy Savino) writes:

> That says it all. Does anyone know??

Sometime in the next month or so, I think.  Don't know about a laserdisc
release.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: La Femme Nikita (Was: Top Laserdisc Sales)
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:57:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Aug12.201954.4925@bnr.ca>, dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
> 
> 
> If it's the same one I saw last year, it's a French film with English 
> subtitles.  Good movie...
> 

It's a very good movie, but a pretty BAD laser disc.  The copy I viewed had
a very grainy picture with lots of color noise, etc. and even a few spots
where the "film" seemed to jump.  Still, it's the only letterbox version
available.  I'd recommend renting it first, if possible, to decide if you
don't mind the problems with it.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: wlrc@uhura.neoucom.edu (William R. Cruce)
Subject: Re: Hammer releases
Organization: Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:16:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.235316.13662@wri.com> andre@rurutu.wri.com (Andre Kuzniarek) writes:
>I've been looking for _Horror of Dracula_ for a while now, and have been  
>hearing about legal hassles surrounding the Hammer properties. Needless to  
>say, this movie is nowhere to be found on LD. Can anyone fill me in on the  
>full scoop?

It is available on laser disc.  Or was last April when I bought
my copy.  Warner #11499  $35.  23 chapters, 82 mins, side 2 in CAV,
pressed by WEA.  It is, of course, the American release.  I am told
the British releases were longer and had more sex, nudity and gore (that's
a general statement for all the Hammer films -I don't know how it
applies to this title specifically).  Warner is only licensed to
release the American versions.  sigh...

-- 
                 "So many windows, So little time"

Bill Cruce, N.E. Ohio Univ. Coll. of Medicine, Box 95, Rootstown, OH 44272
VOICE: 216-325-2511,  FAX: 216-325-0522,  INTERNET: wlrc@uhura.neoucom.edu
From: dylan@cs.washington.edu (Dylan McNamee)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: Re: La Femme Nikita (Was: Top Laserdisc Sales)
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:07:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle


Two other things to look out for on this questionable LD:
I've heard that it is in mono.  (I'm not sure this is true, but my
dealer, who's pretty sharp on these things said so.) Ken Crane's has
a version which is _dubbed_, with french subtitles.  I don't know about
most people, but I really hate dubbed movies.

I think I'll sit this one out, even though I was really looking 
forward to it.

dylan
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
Subject: JFK Narrator
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:15:26 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Does anyone know who is the uncredited narrator at the beginning of JFK? It
sounds like Martin Sheen...

Newsgroups: rec.video.releases
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Excalibur LBX & Flash LD are OUT!
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:39:29 GMT

Just got the LBX Excalibur and the Flash TV pilot on LD
from Sight & Sound today. Haven't watched them yet, but thought
I'd tell the world they are available.

-- 
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.releases