HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ashtray@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (John Newnham)
Subject: Re: Annoying Linux developer habits.
Organization: you have got to be kidding!
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:06:46 GMT

These are my thoughts to what you said.  Of course, they are only opinions,
so hit N now if you wish:

In article <1993Jan11.154103.24261@bernina.ethz.ch> almesber@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Werner Almesberger) writes:
>
>Why I use LaTeX and not plain ASCII ? Because a) long ASCII documents are
>hard to read,

I do not agree.  ASCII printed on a nice printer is easy to read.
ASCII being read through less(1) is even nicer - I like being able to
search for terms automatically, and to have several pages open at once
so that I can compare different parts of the manual/faq/whatever.  Often, a 
misunderstanding of one part of a document becomes clear when read in
the light of another part.  And yes, I 

> seriously consider[..] reading more than very few pages of text on-line

And a 386SX (poverty? me?) is not too wonderful for X.

> b) manual formatting is a pain,

fair enough.  although I don't mind using nroff.  *shrug*

> c) ASCII drawings are hard to create and usually don't look good,

agreed.
> d) ..
> e) ..

fair enough, although nroff does not take long, so little time would
be lost.

>     (It would probably already
>     help a lot if somebody could generate HP-DJ output for the most
>     common LaTeX documents and upload it.)

good idea.

>  3) write a LaTeX to ASCII converter (with a few restrictions, of
>     course)

good idea.  All I need is time, knowledge, disk space ... :-)

>
>Introductory documentation is typically written in ASCII. That the more
>complete part is written in a decent format isn't a good excuse for not
>reading the READMEs and FAQs :-)

I agree again, BUT: people don't read the FAQs.  Observed fact.  So we
should (if only for the sake of our own sanity, and that of the poor
trn daemons) make it easier for them.  Then the noise in this group might
go down.

BTW:
lilo is wonderful.  One day I will learn how to use it properly, and probably
thank you again.  But for now:  thanks for an easy way to supplant MS-DOG!
(also thanks for the MESSY-DOS port of lpMUD, but of course now I want amylaars
port to linux.  any news of this yet?  amylaar?)
>
>- Werner
>-- 
>   _________________________________________________________________________
>  / Werner Almesberger, ETH Zuerich, CH      almesber@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch /
> /_IFW_A44__Tel._+41_1_254_7213___________________________________________/

ashtray
-- 
Vogt's commentary on the theory of Morphic Resonance:
  There is no god!  The universe just got into bad habits. (Marcus Vogt)
From: gt8134b@prism.gatech.EDU (Howlin' Bob)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: DOS emulation
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:01:19 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

wolff@liberator.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff) writes:
>Now I don't agree with this. the windows API has in the HUNDREDS of calls.
>Also given that hardware is slightly logical because making exceptions
>and so forth in silicon is very expensive.

Well, try it in software.  I promise you, it doesn't look cheap from
that side either.

>This is what is wrong with the current DOS emulator. It starts by emulating
>the MSDOS API. You should start by emulating the hardware, and after you

It doesn't really emulate the MS-DOS "API,"  as it were.  The DOS emulator
emulates the BIOS, and a very few int 21h calls that are necessary for
the "network redirector" (linux.exe) and good performance.  IBM thought
enough ahead to make a slight buffer between software and hardware: the
BIOS.  A lot of software calls the BIOS (for disk access, a lot of video
stuff, etc.)   MS-DOS itself calls the BIOS.  It is absolutely necessary 
to have some BIOS emulation.  Furthermore, the whole point of the BIOS is
hardware independence; the PC builder writes a BIOS to take advantage of
whatever features, quirks, and slight incompatibilities his machine might
have.  Running under Linux is a major feature of the DOS emulator.  Matthias
wrote the BIOS with such in mind. :-)

It would be idiotic to rely totally on hardware emulation and then run the
machine's native (ROM) BIOS under that.  The overhead would be tremendous.
If I can write a pseudo-BIOS trap for all int 10h (video) calls that
handles most calls with a very few lines of C (say, a few variable
assignments, input/output, etc), whyever would I want to do otherwise.
The entire int 10h section in my emulator is under 200 lines (I think)
and is sufficient for most programs.  (of course, direct screen writes
are also handled with a special feature of vm86 mode).

>are able to run MSDOS using that, you can start optimizing performance
>and functionality by trapping some MSDOS calls that you know are often
>used and are best emulated. The basic hardware that  MSDOS needs is:
>Keyboard/timers/video/floppy (harddisk).

Almost no programs directly hit the harddisk/floppydisk.  But I agree
with the others, and am working on it.

>At first video emulation need only be at 80x25 textmode. In the end it
>shouldn't be too hard to detect "going into graphics", and emulate that
>too. It might become a little slow, but it should at least work....

That becomes difficult.  I plan on getting around to it, but it's not the
most urgent thing right now.  I would be most pleased if you implemented
such a thing, however.  Please mail me any suggestions/diffs you have.

Robert Sanders
gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu


-- 
Robert Sanders
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt8134b
Internet: gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: rchen@fraser.sfu.ca (Robert Chen)
Subject: Re: Q^3: tcsh6.03, mbase5.0, and strace give me problems
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:22:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.163131.20260@fys.ruu.nl> hooft@fys.ruu.nl (Rob Hooft) writes:
>I currently have three problems that I'm sure of other people can
>handle in a better way than I can.
>
>1) the linux-patches to tcsh-6.02 say they will be incorporated in the
>next version. BUT: tcsh-6.03 will not work unmodified. Something wrong
>with wait(), I think. Are new patches (or suggestions) available?
>

A long time back (0.95-0.96 days) there was a lot of excitement 
about getting shells ported to Linux.  Tcsh hasn't worked well in 
ages, and most people have now just come to use bash or zsh and 
be done with it.  Has anyone recently tried to port BSD's csh? 
I don't even remember what problems were encountered way back 
when there was talk about people trying to port it.  There also 
used to be ports of pdksh and rsh floating around but I haven't 
seen them in a really long time.

Anyway, it would be really nice to see these other shells on sunsite
in the /pub/Linux/system/Shells directory now that the kernel is
looking quite stable (at least from the point of view of porting
non-tcpip type software).  I am going to take a swing at compiling
BSD's csh over the next few days.  If anyone out there has allready 
ported some nifty shells (or even has a working tcsh for 0.99.2), 
please upload them.  Bash is nice, but I miss csh.

- Rob
Organization: The Syd Barrett Appreciation Society
X-Mac-Bust: The Best Way To accelerate a Macintoy is at 9.8m/s^2
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:20:09 EST
From: Charles Fee <CXF111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Is there a policy on posting binaries to ftp sites?

I've compiled a few X11 client binaries from export.lcs.mit.edu and they
have so far compiiled cleanly with a simple xmkmf and then make.  Are they
worth putting up for ftp since they compile right out of the box or should I
simply note that they can be compiled right out of the box without changes?

The two programs I've compiled so far (xpaint2pl1, a MacPaint like paint
program, and Xpostit, a post-it note program) aren't very complex, but might
be useful anyway.

another reason to consider this is that now since Linux is at the point
where most of the major changes are done and it is better supported, more
and more software will port cleanly.  I think it might be a good idea to get
a policy ready, especially as 1.0 nears.

So, if there is agreement, I'll do as agreed upon.

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: danubius@halcyon.com (Joseph R. Pannon)
Subject: Re: 386 BSD
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:54:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.191406.25765@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lukka@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tuomas J Lukka) writes:

One of the reasons that originally steered me toward Linux instead of
386BSD was the latter's low version number (0.1) compared to Linux (0.97
at the time).  From what I hear from you guys, that big difference may not be
justified by the features offered by both.  What may be behind Jolitz's
thinking by assigning such an early version number to it?  What does he
think he should have in addition to existing features to qualify for 
version 1.0?

Any ideas?

Joe Pannon
From: rcopg@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Paul Gortmaker)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: getting linux
Date: 10 Jan 1993 10:35:23 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

Kyle.Hearn@f504.n130.z1.fidonet.org (Kyle Hearn) writes:

>I am trying to get a copy of linux and would download it from the
>internet except the telephone number I can access is 2400bps. That along
>with kermit would kill me. Could someone tell me how I can get a copy
>without downloading from the net?

>Thanks
>KH


> * Origin: The Information Age (1:130/504)


	Here is a blurb from the FAQ - once again showing that it pays to 
RTFM once in a while.

SLS is a complete Linux package that is designed (hopefully) for idiot proof
installation. I think that at present the SLS version of Linux will be 0.99p2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prices are for a disk charge of $3.25 US.

Tiny base system:        9 Meg  (Series 'a')			$23
Main base system:       25 Meg  (Series 'a', 'b' and 'c')	$52.25
Main base system + X11: 45 Meg  (Series 'a', 'b', 'c' and 'x')	$78.25

SLS is available from the address: 

        Softlanding Software               
        910 Lodge Ave. 
        Victoria, B.C., Canada             
        V8X-3A8            
        (604) 360-0188

More details about SLS can be asked to pmacdona@sanjuan.uvic.ca

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Or, even better, buy 3 boxes of disks, find a friend with net access,
and tell them you'll give them a case of beer if they pull off the 25 or so
disks of SLS via ftp. The ftp address near you can be found in the FAQ. This
method is a lot cheaper (...and quicker)

							Best of Luck.
From: christian.perrier@lill.frmug.fr.mugnet.org (Christian Perrier)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: ATP QWK 1.40 MAIL/NEWS RE
Date: 9 Jan 93 11:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: christian.perrier@lill.frmug.fr.mugnet.org (Christian Perrier)
Organization: Li'LL BBS - Paris, France


 TM> contained in the GPL. ATP is derived from an earlier work of Rene
 TM> Cougnenc (AzerTyuioP), but greatly enhanced. Users of earlier

Did you finally remove the funny jokes that Rene put in his source code?
I remember the first time we tried your ATP here with Rene....he tried
to type 'merde' as a command.....and it worked exactly as in
AzertYuiop...:-)

Christian

--- GEcho 1.00/beta+
 * Origin: <<BuBulle System>> 78 Maurepas FR (2:320/200)
From: christia@latenite.ssc.gov (Mike Christiansen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Future Domain SCSI controller...
Date: 10 Jan 93 16:52:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: latenite.CHRISTIA.93Jan10105215
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX


Hello All, 

I have a Future Domain TMC-1670 SCSI controller for my 386 system. The
chip in this controller is described as the TMC1800. The FAQ states
that the TMC 1660/80, or controllers based on the TMC950 work with the
SCSI driver. Am I out of luck?

thanks,
mike.

--
----------------------

Mike Christiansen
Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Controls Group
2550 Beckleymeade Ave.
MS.4002
Dallas, TX. 75237

214-708-3415
christia@latenite.ssc.gov
From: ludwig@wefunk.rent.com (Mitchel F. Ludwig)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Looking for...
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:32:55 GMT
Organization: WEFUNK, the Mothership Connection. East Brunswick, NJ


   Always like to be a bit nebulous with my subject headings :-)

   First, a hearty way-cool to those involved with anything remotely
relating to SLS-4 (v.99 system).  Everything seems to work.  Now I
did have to play with Smail (recompile with SIGNALS set off), and the
system hated most of my permissions (I know, I know...), but aside
from that, wow...

   Anyway, I'm gonna be putting up X in the next day or so.  I'm
wondering if there is, by any slim chance, a smalltalk environment
available for Linux under X?

   Also, since I'm posting anyway, are there specific VGA cards that
X will work with?  Will it work with the Trident or Orchid cards?

Danke,

Mitch.
From: ppc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Peter Pui Tak Chiu)
Subject: shared memory
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:10:21 GMT

hi everyone,

does anyone know if linux support shared memory?

please email ppc1@cec1.wustl.edu

thanks

peter
From: probreak@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (James Michael Chacon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problems with free
Date: 11 Jan 1993 13:34:08 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

<K3010E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:

>Hello Linuxers ||

>i have big problems with the command 'free'. if i login on tty1 and i try the
>command 'free' i get the error 'lseek kmem : error at 'nnnnnnnnn''. nnnnnn
>is a random number. if i make 'rsck' and then i try it again the error is
>away, but i get memory : 0 cache : 0 and so on.

>What can i do against???

As the FAQ and other docs mention, anytime you do a kernel upgrade or change
the system level stuff ps should be recompiled.

You can do a ps -U <unstripped kernel image>

The unstripped kernel image is usually in /usr/src/linux/tools/system.

If that doesn't work, you will need to recompile the ps package. It should
be available from any linux ftp site.

James
From: john.will@satalink.com (John Will)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: X-windows & aliases
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:23:00 GMT
Reply-To: john.will@satalink.com (John Will)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

Can anyone tell me how you get your aliases that appear in .profile to
be recognized when you're running X-Windows?  I have X running like a
champ, but it's a problem to be without all the aliases that I know
and love. :-)  I have the same problem with .emacs, it doesn't seem
to find that either.  This must be really simple, I just can't fine
the answer in any of my books or the FAQ.

Internet: john.will@satalink.com
---
 . KingQWK 1.05 # 97 . Bigamy: one wife too many.  Monogamy: same idea.
From: kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: mwm??
Summary: Anywhere?? Anyone???
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:31:25 GMT
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University

Is there a version of the Motif window manager out there for ftp?
Although I do prefer Openlook myself, I would like to experiment with mwm if
possible...


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Fisher  ><> 	|  "Thank you.  You can't believe everything you
kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca   |  see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP'
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Conrad_Nobili@Harvard.EDU (Conrad C. Nobili)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Reducing traffic on c.o.l.
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:05:06 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.linux
Organization: Harvard University Office for Information Technology

In article <1993Jan12.043947.9935@sfu.ca>, wonge@fraser.sfu.ca (Edmund
Wong) wrote:

> Do no forget that you too was a newbie once, so just because you know
> how to fiddle with Linux, it doesn't mean that newbies can be ignored.

As a newbie I found all I needed in FAQs and by *reading* (not posting)
news.

The problem is not that newbies might be ignored, but rather that newbies
are ignoring the blamed FAQs....  Newbies with new questions won't be
ignored....

> quite frankly, I don't think any Linux Gurus/Pros/Wizards would sit in
> front of the terminal, reading each newbie question in the other 
> "help forums", when each newbie question can be answered by reading 
> the FAQ.

Uh, frankly, that's the idea....  (Read your last phrase again....)

> ... but hey, it's my $0.02 worth, anyway.

Remember, folks, this is $0.02 CDN....  ;-)  Sorry, stupid cheap shot.

>    But how about these?  Don't these messages waste bandwidth ... ?

Yes, I am loathe to post this sort of crap, but my exasperation overcame
me.

Conrad C. Nobili  N1LPM  Conrad_Nobili@Harvard.EDU  Harvard University OIT
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Subject: Re: Corrupt 'tar' man page
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 13:48:26 GMT

danubius@halcyon.com (Joseph R. Pannon) writes:
>Thanks, J. M., but that only is half the answer I need.  I want it to
>work under the 'man' program, just as the other pages that do work.  In
>other words, how can I convert that text into the format 'man' uses.

The first form of online docs for Unix was man pages.  They are nice,
but could be better.  One alternative format for man pages is Texinfo,
developed by the GNU Project.  Texinfo allows hypertext (links in the
text to other parts of the document), has better readers (that allow
following the links), not just less or more, and is better for writing
longer documents in the form of books.  Texinfo is the preferred
format of documentation for GNU programs, and the GNU people
ultimately want to have all documentation in that format.

Man pages and Texinfo are not compatible, and it is very non-trivial
to convert Texinfo to a man page (although the other way can be
automated).  Texinfo to man page conversion has to be done by hand.

Therefore, there is little chance that you can get man to understand
the Texinfo document.  You'll just have to live with two different
forms of documentation.  Life's a bitch.

>Or is tar a command that is 'not supposed' to have a 'man' doc format? 

No, but it just doesn't have documentation in man page format (or does
it?  I can't remember that it does).  The reason it doesn't have a man
page, is either because nobody has written one, or possibly because
the author of GNU tar doesn't want to distribute two incompatible
forms of documentation.  I don't know which reason is true.

However, assuming it is because nobody has written a tar man page for
GNU tar, and you want it, you might want to remember how Linux has
become what it is: people who want something, and find that it hasn't
been done, do it themselves.  Doing something doesn't require knowing
everything, it shouldn't be too hard to write a very basic man page
for tar (after you know a little about tar).  Linux has not developed
thanks to people who pop into c.o.l and telling people that such and
such has to be done.

To get you started, the basic forms of usage for tar are

	tar -cvf tarfilename file1 file2 ...

		Create a tar file "tarfilename", put files "file1",
		"file2" into it.

	tar -tvf tarfilename

		Display a table of contents for the tar file.

	tar -xvf tarfilename

		Extract all files from a tar file.

And don't look at me, I'm perfectly fine with "tar +help" for all the
documentation I need, and I have better things to do than rewrite
existing documentation (such as writing new documentation).  

If anybody writes a tar man page, and wants it to be included in the
Linux Doc set (when that becomes ready in a few years), send me a note
and I'll direct you to the person who coordinates the man pages and
other program specific documentation (I don't have his name handy at
the moment, sorry).

--
Lars.Wirzenius@helsinki.fi  (finger wirzeniu@klaava.helsinki.fi)

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
From: vishal@kedar.ee.iitb.ernet.in (Vishal Misra)
Subject: MH,GNUS for Linux
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, IIT Bombay
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:51:28 GMT


Hello all,
	I have a few queries regarding linux -

	1)	Is anyone running MH on linux?
	2) 	Same for GNUS - My GNUS is running very shakily - keeps 
		breaking the nntp connection - the problem is not there
		with other machines/newsreaders-on-linux .
	3)	I can't get the forwarders bit right in my named setup.
		It keeps giving "no root nameserver for class 1" - could
		someone help me out with that?..

						Thanks a lot,
								Vishal

p.s. My setup is kernel 99.2, net-bin-0.2, SLS 99.1.  I have the other
TCP/IP stuff (including NFS ) running well so if anyone has any problems I can
 help out...





--
__Vishal Misra_________________________________________________________________
__28-B, Kumkum Apts_______Communications Lab___________________________________
__Vile Parle (West)_______Dept. of Elect.Engg._________________________________
__Bombay - 400 056________IIT Bombay___________________________________________
__Phone: 6121022(R)_______5782545 extn 2499_________vishal@ee.iitb.ernet.in__
From: ghod@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: SLS update: gcc 2.3.3, libc4.2, etc
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:36:15 -0500
Followup-To: comp.os.linux
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1993Jan11.205958.20840@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, sanjuan!pmacdona@sol.UVic.CA (Peter MacDonald) writes:
> This is a 1 day warning that SLS will be ugraded tomorrow,
> Monday Jan 11, 1993 at about 9:00 am PST.  Be forewarned,
> if you download SLS at this time, who knows what you'll 
> get.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Announcing SLS 99 p2.  This is a massive upgrade to the first
Yay! Time to start the 'midnight raids' again. :)

[stuff deleted for the sake of brevity]
> still not be perfect).  Ftp seems to have a problem with ls (kernel?).
                          ----------------------------------------------
Uhm... I have this dreadful feeling I'm about to dredge up an old subject
(again) but I think I solved this one -- assuming we're talking about the
same ls/ftp problem that is. After I patched up my ftpd to use shadow
passwords, I too noticed that doing an ls over the ftp connection to my machine
did nothing. I discovered this was because /home/ftp/lib/libc.so.4 was 
hard linked to the wrong shared library in /lib. Hence, ls would fail, but
no 'wrong library' error messages ever appeared 'cause all output had been
re-directed through ftpd. For the record, in my system, /home/ftp/bin/ls is
just a hard link to /bin/ls and /home/ftp/lib/libc.so.4 is as link to
/lib/libc.so.4.1  (I guess this should change to 4.2 for the new release).
This was tricky to find because, when logged in as a normal user, / is still /,
and /lib is still /lib, so /home/ftp/bin/ls works fine. But ftpd uses chroot()
to make /home/ftp into /, which makes /home/ftp/lib into /lib and blammo...
ls craps out. Hope this helps.

Kudos, Peter. Keep up the good work.

-Bill

ghod@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu

From: laurentj@hpgnd195.grenoble.hp.com (Laurent_Julliard)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:55:36 GMT
Subject: ** HELP ! Can't boot from HD...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, GND