From: gwangung@byron.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: Carol Moseley Braun (was Re: Women in Politics)
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:35:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr17.163523.6158
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <BMtwFH.3r8@world.std.com> tparks@world.std.com (terry parks) writes:
>>>I would really love to see a list of these unique to Blaks
>>>and unique to women problems.
>>        Certainly.
>>        Several studies have shown that blacks face discrimination simply
>>because they are blacks.
>>Matched pairs of black and white test participants
>>were sent out for job interviews, housing situations, etc.  Results?
>>Whites were treated better, blacks were more likely not to get follow up
>>interviews/calls, whites got more job offers, etc.
>More likely?

	Yes.  More likely.  Got a problem with English, I see.

 So some "blacks" did not get follow-up calls and some
>"whites" did not get follow-up calls. How is this a unique problem
>to Blaks which you claim justifies taking a job away from a "white"
>who didn't get a follow-up call and giving it to a "black" who did?

	Please deal with your English problem.  I did not say the above.

	I simply stated that whites got more follow up calls, more
job offers and blacks got fewer. I said nothing about taking away anything.


>>Another example, there are certain skin conditions that affect
>>blacks more than whites.
>More than? So some "blacks" have skin conditions and some "whites"
>have skin conditions. How is this a unique problem to Blaks which
>you claim justifies denying a scholarship to a "white" who has
>such skin conditions and giving it a "black" who doesn't?

	Deal with your langunage problem.  I said nothing about
scholarships here.  What I said deals entirely of problems unique to
blacks that are not treated the same as whites.


>>Various social psychology studies show the result that when men
>>and women make the same statement, men are taken more seriously and
>>women are judged to be more emotional.
>And these people making gender biased judgements, how many of them are
>women? 

	Irrelevant.

Why do you want to deny promotions to men who have never
>made any gender biased judgements and give them to women who always do.

	Your language problem is quite bad.  Try remedial courses.
I never said this.  If you look at the stats, you'll find that both
men and women make this biased judgement.


>>Oh, you HAVE heard of the glass ceiling, hm?
>You mean the concept of rather than a company of 1,000 people having
>one CEO and 999 workers it must have each female employee be CEO since
>the mythology goes that if it weren't for gender bias all female
>employees just would have to be in the top position.

	No, the concept that men of lesser education, lesser experience
make MORE money and have higher positions than women and male minorities.
See Census data for 1970, 1980.


>>>>Going back to Ms. Braun, the unhidden assumption here is that
>>>>minorities and women are not being heard in the Senate.
>>>And the factual basis for this is?  Something like, although they get
>>>all the restricted awards, classes, scholarships, grants, jobs, contracts,
>>>these people should be getting free daily lunches and preferred airport
>>>parking?
>>But not heard enough, or you STILL wouldn't have this current evidence
>>of ongoing, persistent discrimination.
>Really, I was kidding about the free daily lunches and preferred airport
>parking. How much discrimination against Caucasian males do you need
>to satisfy your lust? Is six million victims enough?

	Against 100 million?  


>>There is ample evidence that you are mistaken.
>Well where is it, just where is your mythical list of problems which are
>unique to women and Blaks?

	Right here.  Sorry your language problems are giving you
difficulty.

>>You can argue that these solutions are not the best possible, but
>>then the issue then becomes what is most effective.
>Not the best possible?  Lunacy best discribes this notion of giving dole
>to all Blaks because some Caucasians suffer job discrimination because of
>their skin conditions.

	Really, Mr. parks, I would really do something about your
language problem. I would think it would hurt your in the
employment world.
-- 
	"I got into theatre originally to pick up girls. Unfortunately, all I
found were women..."
e-mail:  gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu