X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:42:33 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2829
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2829

                           Tuesday, July 28, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                    Re: RE: TDD RELAY SERVICE: ETTIQUITTE
                              TT/TDD retailers
                                  Re: Pain
                           Conservative treatment
                                  PAIN MEDS
                           Conservative treatment
                                   Vicodin
                                     RSD
                      ASCII Stardard results for TDDs.
                              Re: DEAF CULTURE


                                ******


To subscribe to the Handicap Digest mailing list or have your
thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to
Bill McGarry at any of the following addresses:


UUCP:       uunet!bunker!wtm
INTERNET:   wtm@bunker.shel.isc-br.com
BITNET:     l-hcap@ndsuvm1.bitnet
Fidonet:    The Handicap News BBS (141/420)   1-203-337-1607
	    (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064

                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: Re: RE: TDD RELAY SERVICE: ETTIQUITTE
From: rbarth%ka3ovk.uucp@uunet.uu.net (Dick Barth)
Organization: ARS W3HWN

> From: Leti.Labell@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Leti Labell)
>
> I don't know how it's done, but there is a bbs in the DC area that
> people can call with a TDD.  The name of the board is TEDI-Net, and
> the number is 703-242-8117.  I suspect that they have a modem that
> will convert between Baudot and ASCII, but I don't know for sure.
> You could call the board (actually it's located in Virginia, not
> DC) and ask them how they do it.
>

The TEDI-NET BBS doesn't accept TDD calls, but mine does.  The Handicapped
Educational Exchange (HEX) BBS is in Silver Spring MD, a suburb of
Washington DC, and can be called through the DC port of PC Pursuit.

Phones:   301-593-7033 (TDD or 300 baud ASCII)
          301-593-7357 (ASCII only, 300-2400 baud MNP5)

If anybody is interested in how it's done, I'll be happy to go into
details.  I'm not sure, though, whether this whole group is interested
in a lot of technical detail.  Perhaps email is best.

        Dick Barth,  rbarth%ka3ovk.uucp@uunet.uu.net

--
Richard Barth, W3HWN **** HEX, the Handicapped Educational Exchange BBS
(301) 593-7033 (TDD and 300 baud)    | Domain: rbarth%ka3ovk.uucp@uunet.uu.net
(301) 593-7357 (300-2400 MNP)        | UUCP:   uunet!media!ka3ovk!rbarth



------



Subject: TT/TDD retailers
From: rbarth%ka3ovk.uucp@uunet.uu.net (Dick Barth)
Organization: ARS W3HWN

> If you can give me the name of one or more retailers, please Email me at
> spgreg.mars.lerc.nasa.gov or post to usenet-misc.handicap or DeafL.
>

    Manufacturers and suppliers TDDs and related products:

    Phone-TTY Inc.
    202 Lexington Avenue
    Hackensack NJ 07601
    201-489-7889 (voice)
    201-489-7890 (TTY)
    201-489-7891 (FAX)
    201-489-3323 (CBB)

    Krown Research Inc.
    10371 West Jefferson Blvd.
    Culver City CA 90232
    213-839-0181 in California
    800-833-4968 elsewhere

    Ultratec
    6442 Normandy Lane
    Madison WI 53719
    608-273-0707 (V/TDD)



--
Richard Barth, W3HWN **** HEX, the Handicapped Educational Exchange BBS
(301) 593-7033 (TDD and 300 baud)    | Domain: rbarth%ka3ovk.uucp@uunet.uu.net
(301) 593-7357 (300-2400 MNP)        | UUCP:   uunet!media!ka3ovk!rbarth




------



Subject: Re: Pain
From: kak@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Kim Kohler)
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies

Keith.Jones@p13.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Jones) writes:


> IMHO, too many physicians specialize and if you cannot be pigeonholed
> right into their field of expertise, they say they can't help you and
> send you to another "expert" who, in turn, passes you off to another.
> This is true especially in those difficult to diagnose pains or
> illnesses. If you do not fit the specifics precisely, doctors feel they
> may be going out on a limb and subjecting themselves to litigation if
> they were to prescribe some drug say that could help but may have some
> very adverse side effects. It is called "passing the buck".
> Unfortunately the "buck" is human which is something they don't take
> time to train these physicians during the long time they have them in
> medical school.


KEITH !!  Yes yes yes.  this is exactly what is going on with me.
Even at the Mayo clinic this occurs... i saw a physician in a numer
of specialties and each passed me on "not in my area"..
Seems to me that maybe if all these physicians actually had a MEETING
to discuss the various cases and take some OWNERSHIP of the difficult
cases, we might have better luck.

Keith:
SO GLAD YOU'RE BACK ON THE NET !!  Enjoyed your discussions of your
journey.  I felt joy for your accomplishments.  You should feel a great deal
of pride in your acheivements.
BTW, after 7 years of disabling pain I again hit bottom this winter.
I truly believed i was dying for sure, and *FINALLY* started dragging
my butt to a pool at the local Y.  I am swimming nearly everyday, and,
unlike what you've experienced, it doesn't help the pain (sometimes makes it
worse), but has helped the depression tremendously.  I'm hooked, too.
A up to 1/2 hour  of laps per day.. resting for a few minutes 3 times per
session.

one more thing.  I met a young man a few weeks ago.  He is 23 years old
and a few months ago suffered a spinal cord injury in a motorcycle race.
Have volunteered to try and get him on the net.,...
I know that when ethan introduces himself, you'll all welcome him warmly.


-kim
--
Kim Kohler				kak@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
220 CCC
Cornell University, Ithaca NY




------



Subject: Conservative treatment
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Linda!

17 Jul 92, Linda Cummings writes to Arthur Saus:

 >> Well, that is one possible explanation, but there are others that
 >> are equally possible if you understand the anatomy.  The L5-S1 and
 >> S1-S2 nerves pass through the L4-L5 spinal canal before they reach
 >> their respective levels.  It is certainly possible that a problem
 >> at the higher L4-L5 area can affect any nerves at a lower level.

 LC> So, this could explain my excrutiating tailbone pain, huh?  Possibly?

It possibly could, although there are many other possibilities
also.  Any set of symptoms can be associated with a number of
different medical problems. This is what is referred to as a
"differential diagnosis".  The challenge for the physician is to
figure out which problem a patient actually has, from the
constellation of symptoms that is presented.

 LC> But, it sure is hard to have chronic pain and be on any real
 LC> beneficial exercise program except to keep limbs limber.  For me, I can't
 LC> hardly stand to any type of real good exercise for weight loss. In fact, I
 LC> gained weight *after* the surgeries because I can't exercise.

Unfortunately this gets to be a vicious cycle, like so many other
disease problems.  Chronic pain is associated with being
overweight... patient doesn't get exercise because of the pain...
weight increases...pain increases...patient exercises less...etc.
Trying to break out of this cycle is difficult and requires a lot
of determination on the patient's part.  The problem with trying to
break this cycle is explained in the basic college psychology
courses... there are no immediate rewards for your efforts (ie
positive reinforcers), only the negative ones such as discomfort if
not outright PAIN.  The rewards for weight loss are there, but they
are long term.

Did you ever hear the old Kingston Trio song, "Desert Pete"?  The
setting of this ballad is that a man is wandering through the
desert, about to die of thirst when he runs across an old well that
has a bottle of water sitting beside it and a note from Desert
Pete.  The note states that there is a limitless amount of water
that will come from the pump, but to get it, the thirsty traveler
must first pour all the water from the bottle into the pump to
prime it.  The note states:

 You've got to prime the pump.
 You must have faith and believe.
 You've got to give of yourself
 before you're worthy to receive.
 Drink all the water you can hold,
 wash your face, cool your feet.
 But leave the bottle full for others.
           Thank you kindly,
           Desert Pete

Of course the ballad goes on to tell how sorely tempted the
traveler was to ignore the message and drink the water from the
bottle, but he had faith, followed the instructions, and indeed got
the pump working and was able to tap this limitless water supply.

Certainly you and others are not worrying about severe thirst in
the desert, but I think there's an important attitude expressed in
this ballad that will help in anything you are trying to
accomplish, even in the face of punishment or negative
reinforcers.

Arthur

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: PAIN MEDS
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Connie!

17 Jul 92, Connie Crum writes to William Herrera:

 CC> TORODOL WORKS GREAT AS A PAIN MED. I WORK IN AN OUTPATIENT FACILITY AND
 CC> USE TORODOL ROUTINELY POSTOPERATIVELY. IN 12 MONTHS TIME I HAVE
 CC> NOT ADMINISTERED A NARCOTIC OF ANY KIND. WE ALSO WILL USE DALGAN ALONG
 CC> WITH THE TORODOL. WE GET TREMENDOUS RESULTS AND WE HAVE EXPRIENCED NO SIDE
 CC> EFFECTS.

I did not see the original message, so I may be reading your
message totally out of context.  If so, you may feel my comments
are out of place, but your experiences are certainly interesting.

I agree with you that I have also been pleased with these
medications, but I'm not so sure I'm willing to say Torodol "works
great as a pain med"... "fair" to "good" maybe, but not "great" in
the immediate postoperative population I'm accustomed to seeing.

Yes, the combination appears promising, but this is a pretty
expensive approach currently, when you compare this to the more
traditional approaches.  Of course, there are a lot of advantages
in providing good pain control while not using narcotics or
controlled substances of any kind.  Remember however that both
medications are available by prescription only, so most readers of
this echo will not have access to these drugs, except as hospital
inpatients.  Again, I'm glad to read of your experiences with these
relatively new drugs.

Arthur

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Conservative treatment
From: Wayne.Briggs@p3.f26.n392.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Briggs)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:392/26.3 - Star Express, Abilene Tx


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hi Linda:

I'e found listening to your messages (a) helpful and (b)
inspirational. Mind if I toss in an idea  ?

Water exercises, floating on back, swmmimg are pare of a typical
pain management program for individual with arthritus and for many
with back pain. I'm basing that on info as a hospital Social work
director & info from the Socciety for Behavioral Medicine, as well
as what my mom's doctor told her. Carolk Arter (James Arter) in
Abilene, Tx has info on a vest you can wear in water that keeps you
up right. For most of us, inactivity may be associated with feeling
worse, deterioration of general health & muscles strength, increase
muscle fatigue, increase musclew spasms or strain, increased
hopeless thnking & inceased depression. This letter is not coming
from an exercise nut; but a person who has struggled with
inactivity/weight since after 3 years in Viet-Nam and try the OA
program becaus I dojt hasve any other choices.

NONE f this stuff is a CURE; but TOGETHER they help things goa bit
better some of the time.It reminds me of a story my grandad told
about how he fekt about gettinging other ."Its better than the
other option!"

feel worse when my pain level ip up. It's like I'm suddenly wearing
dark glassses. Any chance yours has been up lately ?

Do you know any relevant Jewish jokes or stories ?

Good luck.  hope the national weather system changes & ifd you are
now in a "high pain index area", gives yousome relief.

P.S. I wish my communications rogram had a spell checker!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!392!26.3!Wayne.Briggs
Internet: Wayne.Briggs@p3.f26.n392.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Vicodin
From: Wayne.Briggs@p3.f26.n392.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Briggs)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:392/26.3 - Star Express, Abilene Tx


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

What ever helps some of the time.

Personally, if I take any of that stuff after two doses, it makes
makes me stuck up.

IWhile 1 person may react or perhaps be allergic to 1 drug. Codine,
hydrocdine & trade names like Vicoden, Lora-Tab, Tylox according to
my doctors & pharmacist are all about the same thing. I try to
limit use to 16 hours max & avoid any AM use, try rest, heat, cold
& TENS as alternative so that the stuff still works some when I
need it.

I've thought of myself as having a rather low pain tolerance - but
todsay felt kind of good when my doctor told my my 1 good shoulder
had beemn dislocated for a week and that was why I was
"uncomfortable."  I was also greatly releaved that the RSD hadn't
travelled from 1 arm to the other.

May your infection always benever or mild.

P.S. I've been able to save $ with generic pain meds - however
generic nti-depressants are not always biologically equivalent. Are
you able to take Asprin & have to tried the 6 hour time release
stuff ?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!392!26.3!Wayne.Briggs
Internet: Wayne.Briggs@p3.f26.n392.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: RSD
From: Bob.Eagly@f21.n3619.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Eagly)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3619/21 - Inner Sanctum, New Port Richey FL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Well I have been told just resently I have RSD. Would like to hear
from others with same. Tring to learn more about it. I had a
operation on my right waist in 89 and now I have pain up my arm in
my right side of my neck and chest. They are talking
Blocks.          Thanks BOB

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3619!21!Bob.Eagly
Internet: Bob.Eagly@f21.n3619.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: ASCII Stardard results for TDDs.
From: Raphael.Joa@f102.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Raphael Joa) SYSOP, Norman
 Williams,
From: SYSOP, Norman Williams,
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/102 - The Event Horizon, Bay Ridge NY


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

UPDATE NEWS:
^^^^^^^^^^^
TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT PROGRAM
at Gallaudet University
Bulletin Board System for Deaf and Hard of Hearing People.
SYSOP: Norman Williams, deaf author.
(202) 544-3613 Modem 8n1 3/12/2400 Baud, 24 hrs, all times.
 +---------------------------------------------------+
 | Futura-TDD V2.10 software on sales                |
 | FUTURA WAVE COMMUNICATIONS                        |
 | Attn: Norman Williams,                            |
 | Designed of futura-TDD V2.10 & ASCII-TDD software |
 | 3506 Commodore Barney NE # T-2                    |
 | Washington  DC  20018                             |
 | (202) 651-5613 [Tdd/ASCII]                        |
 | (202) 651-5257 [Voice]                            |
 +---------------------------------------------------+

Msg # 5
Date: Fri 7-17-92, 10:36 am

Regarding to ASCII Standard meeting results

Hi Everyone,

I went to the NAD convention to moderate ASCII standards with about
20 companies who involve with TDD products and relay services.

Also, Dick Brandt who works with CCITT standards for modems were with us
to make sure the Baudot specs are up to date before it may become standard
to all new modems. Yes! It is very possible that all Hayes and compatiable
modems will include Baudot calls. Not offically yet, but the formal voting
at CCITT meeting will be on Sept '93. After approval, usually 1 month
later, the products will appear on the market. Meaning? We can get 14,400
Baud modems with Baudot support! More details later...

About the ASCII standards, so far we agreed to:

SPEED        BIT STRUCTURES                CALLER MODE     RECEIVER MODE
========================================================================
300 BAUD     8N1 w/ 8th bit stripping      Half Duplex     Half Duplex
1200 BAUD    8N1 w/o 8th bit stripping     Full Duplex     Host Mode
2400 BAUD    8N1 w/o 8th bit stripping     Full Duplex     Host Mode

LINEFEED: On
MINIMUM BAUD: 300
CARRIER LOST: Do not hang up
LENGTH TIME OF ASCII CHECKING: User selectable (incoming calls)
More news coming up later...

-EOF-

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!102!Raphael.Joa
Internet: Raphael.Joa@f102.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: DEAF CULTURE
From: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Fran O'gorman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:272/94 - Monroe Electronic M, Monroe NY


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Hi Laurel,

 LG> James, I have read the book "Disavblingg of the Deaf Community",
 LG> and I can see that ASL and Deaf Culture are really the most
 LG> appropriate cultural formss for the born-deaf or pre-lingually
 LG> deafened.  But, I still do not think that Deaf culture is simply
 LG> another culture -- like English culture or French culture. Any
 LG> more than riding around in a wheel chair is a cultural alternative
 LG> to walking.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here (as I think others might
do so also) but I really wanted to comment on what you were
saying.  I haven't read the book you're referring to so alot might
have to do with how that book defines 'culture' (if it supports
your view) but I think that this is definitely open to debate.  It
may sound like semantics here but to say that Deaf culture is not
a culture is to try to force Deaf culture into a very narrow
defintion of culture and then say it doesn't qualify--

 LG>  I have three reasons -- 1) There are six thousand
 LG> words in ASL.  There are six HUNDRED thousand words in English.

The number of words in a language doesn't give one language or the
culture from which it springs a higher standing.  The native
American languages typically had fewer words than the European
ones but for a variety of reasons.  The kinship factor allowed for
a greater understanding (without specific words) of what one meant
by a term or word (no need for new words for shades of meaning,
the hearer knew what was meant) and their culture and lifestyle
was simpler so they simply had less 'stuff' to name.  While the
Europeans thought (because they were so different) that these
cultures were primitive, actually the contrary was true, as we
have come to realize today.

(As an aside, the Spanish have 2 words for 'know', one for just
'knowing' in a very generalized sense-- sort of to 'know of'--
whereas the other word for know denotes a deeper knowledge like
knowing a person and having a relationship with them.  English
only has the one word to do the work of both conotations... I
think Spanish is for good having another word for this but don't
have a problem with English because it doesn't.)

 LG> 2)People with all their senses do not sometimes develop sign
 LG> language and sometimes develop spoken language.  Cultures of
 LG> people who are healthy and have all their senses ALWAYS develop a
 LG> spoken language.  Infants with all their senses do not sometimes
 LG> babble and sometimes make finger motions.  Infants with all their
 LG> senses ALWAYS babble.

Some cultures are more gestural than others (like the Italians)
but all use whatever is at their disposal to communicate.  It just
so happens for the non-oral deaf person, speaking isn't one of
those things.  Monkeys use their tails to climb since they have
them, I'm sure if we had tails we'd take advantage of them too.
I think this is just a utilitarian pragmatic thing.  Also you use
the word 'healthy' -- having lost one's hearing (while it might
have occurred as a result of an illness) is not in and of itself a
matter of ill-health.

 LG>  The only hearing people who have EVER used
 LG> sign language are the American Indians (or Native Americans, if
 LG> you prefer).  And that was only because there were many tribes,
 LG> with many languages, and it was considered humiliating and
 LG> degrading to learn another tribe's language.

There are other cultures that used sign, but you're right they are
the ones that used it the most but the reason they didn't learn
the language of another tribe was because language was looked upon
as a sacred gift, and was thought of as much a part of the body as
the head or limbs.  For this reason an Indian never spoke the
language of another nation except through the capacity of an
interpreter. It was both an affirmation of being happy with one's
own language and that of one's ancestors and a mark of respect to
the other nation's language to speak only one's own.  At least
this is what I know of the Iroquois from my home state NY.

 LG>  So, Deaf Culture may
 LG> be best for the Deaf, but it is NOT just another culture.

Maybe not *just* another culture, but I feel it IS a culture.
It's linked by common experience, language, humor, etc., etc.

 LG>  It IS a
 LG> handicap,

Now again I may seem to be arguing semantics here, but the word
'handicap' is a heavy.  While it may not seem as negative as some
terms the etymology of it alone is not good.  It comes from the
Dickens' era of England when persons with disabilities were
relagated to begging in the streets with 'cap in hand'.  But now
it is still viewed as something that holds one back and so can be
viewed as very relative.  While it poses difficulties, I don't
think many here, oralists or signers feel handicapped by their
deafness.  They put up with the aggravations it poses and move on.
If a person so chooses, they could be handicapped by a hangnail,
and while I don't pretend to minimize the challenges deafness
places on people's lives, the people here have definitely risen
above the 'handicap' and don't feel handicapped.  That's my
perception anyway.  If we had a 250 IQ and a face and body like
Julia Roberts, maybe we could say we're not handicapped but
everyone has their limitations but are not necessarily
'handicapped' by them.  In fact I read once where extreme beauty,
instead of an asset can, in some circumstances, be a handicap.
Anyway I hope you get the idea of the realativity and semantics
involved with that word that I'm trying to point out.

 LG> and they ARE communicating in a way that is not
 LG> instinctive for the human animal.

Actually gestures are somewhat instinctive (unless you've got some
kind of paralysis and can't) but gestures without speaking is not
for the hearing person but can be for the non hearing person (or
person not able to speak for another reason like a stroke or brain
injury).  My daugther who is brain injured started to make up her
own sign language to communicate with us before the school finally
decided to switch her over to sign.

 LG> 3) If Deaf Culture is just
 LG> another culture, how come nobody ever VOLUNTARILY becomes Deaf?

People don't become Black (a guy did once to experience black life
and write a book but not usually).  But they sometimes do enter
into their society, perhaps marry into it or whatever... and the
same is true when hearies learn sign and become socially involved
with a deaf community.  But you can't change who you are nor would
anyone want you to.  That doesn't happen with the other cultures
either.

 LG> My grandparents voluntarily left Europe and voluntarily became
 LG> English speaking Americans.  Where are all the people who have
 LG> voluntarily become deaf?

Learning another language and becoming assimilated into another
culture doesn't take away your previous heritage.  Your
grandparents were probably considered Dutch-Americans or German
Americans or whatever country they came from.  They didn't have to
cut off an arm or something to do that.

 LG>  How come, when two deaf people have a
 LG> hearing baby, they do not automatically take the baby to a doctor
 LG> and have its auditory nerve severed?

Because being deaf is something to be dealt with.  They can assist
the child in dealing with his or her difference if she or he is
deaf but if the child is more like everyone else, life is easier
for him or her.  No one wants to make life more difficult than it
already is.

I'm not trying to minimize the challenges deafness brings to one's
life.  But the word 'handicap' seems so negative.  I hope you
understand the spirit in which this was written.

Oralists are not involved in Deaf Culture usually and this is fine
too.  The bigger hearing world is theirs and I know Ann would like
to see the Deaf culture people open up more to the hearing world
as much for their own benefit as anything else.  That's another
whole issue.  But what they (the signing deaf) do have presently
still constitutes a culture in my opinion.

Actually I think Ann would take issue with you on your first
statement in your msg where you said that signing is probably best
for people who were born deaf as she was born deaf and is an
oralist.  I'm not even going to discuss what's 'best' but just
what 'is'.  Some people seem to manage oralism successfully, and
some in the end do better with sign...but after all is said and
done, we should accept each other in however way we communicate
and move on from there.

--Fran

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!272!94!Fran.O'gorman
Internet: Fran.O'gorman@f94.n272.z1.fidonet.org




------






                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2829 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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