HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:13:48 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Home education

I will be attempting to send to the list a compiliation of the information
posted to me by individuals who choose to educate their children at home.
Hopefully, I will be able to do this on Monday or Tuesday.  If anyone else
would like to add information, please e-mail me.  A list of questions issued
is avaliable upon request.


                          Renee (SRAutry@Samford)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:22:40 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Psalm 69 as Messianic

Bob Weiss quotes Psalm 69:8 ("an alien to my mother's sons") to show
that the Virgin Mary had sons other than Jesus. What conclusion does
he draw from verse 5?

My own conclusion is that New Testament writers, in applying Old
Testement quotations, often cheerfully ignore the context. Thus,
Matthew (2:15) applies the words, "Out of Egypt have I called my
son," to Jesus, ignoring the fact that the passage (Hosea 11:1f)
continues, "but the more I called, the more he went astray." It is
not that Matthew has carelessly overlooked the next verse. He is not
prooftexting in the modern sense. He believes that God's action in
setting aside a people to bear witness to Him in a pagan world
foreshadows His own taking human nature upon Him in the person of a
Man Who would be His definitive self-witness. Any resemblances
between the flock and the Lamb appeal to Matthew's sense of
appropriateness, but he does not expect that there will be no
differences. A reference to Solomon as David's royal Son may have
overtones for Matthew (indeed for any Christian reader) that it
would not have for Solomon's contemporaries, but it does not bother
Matthew that it is followed at once by a reference to Solomon that
has no Messianic application.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:30:00 EST
From:         HENZLEEF@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
Subject:      Streams in the Desert

I read the following passage today and found it very inspirational.
Thought I'd share it with you.

From: Streams in the Desert by Mrs. Charles E. Cowman

September 3:

And he saw them toiling in rowing (Mark 6:48)

Straining, driving effort does not accomplish the work God gives man to
do.  Only God Himself, who always works without strain, and who never
overworks can do the work that He assigns to His children.  When they
restfully trust Him to do it, it will be well done and completely done.
The way to let Him do His work through us is to partake of Christ so fully,
by faith, that He more than fills our life.

A man who had learned this secret once said: "I came to Jesus and I drank,
and I do not think that I shall ever be thirsty again.  I have taken for
my motto, 'not overwork, but overflow'; and already it has made all the
difference in my life."

There is no effort in overflow.  It is quietly irresistible.  It is the
normal life of omnipotent and ceaseless accomplishment into which Christ
invites us today and always.

                                        From Sunday School Times

God bless you all.
Elaine
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:36:16 PST
From:         FRANK@LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Mary and sinlessness

>Now they have all kinds of Mary statures and stuff around the
>block wall. The people were on the news and everything, and I
>didn't hear them talking about Jesus, only Mary.


    Yvette --

    That's part of the problem Protestants have with Apparitions of
Mary, Jesus, etc.  It seems that it is always happening to Catholics
(which isn't true.  Protestants receive apparitions they just don't
like to admit it.  Too Catholic!) and once they vision has appeared
we're jumping around the thing and seem to place to much significance
 on the object rather than the message or truth of the message.
Something similar happened out by where I live and the homeowner,
after roughly a week of the circus, cut the tree down.  The family
is very devout and felt tremendously blessed by the vision but
wanted others to pray and reflect on what the vision might have
meant and to pray and reflect on what role God is playing in their
lives.

Frank
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Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:17:46 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anti-Catholicism: "Saul, Saul, why ..."
              26 Aug 1992 16:03:54 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

On Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:03:54 GMT Steve Creps said:
>
>   For the record, I, myself, am skeptical of the apparitions in
>question (for one thing, I don't think they have been approved by the
>Catholic Church), but do recognize the possibility of the Virgin Mary
>appearing.  For example, her appearances at Fatima have been approved.

Are you speaking of the apparitions of Medjugorje, or of the inner
locutions (not apparitions) of Cyndi Cain? Its my understanding
that a final judgement is not usually rendered until the phenomenon
ceases. Currently Cyndi Cain has the approval of her bishop to
share her locutions. Medjugorje has the unofficial blessings of
Pope John Paul II, but according to what I have read no final
judgement will be rendered until the apparitions cease.

In His Love,
Elizabeth
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:10:54 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Skeptical about visions

Bernice,

You ask, "Please tell us why you are sceptical of visions of Jesus
and Mary."  I am not sceptical in general.  I believe that God sent
Mary to Mexico (Our Lady of Guadalupe), Lourdes, and Fatima, although
not with the same kind or level of faith that I have in God, in the
deity of Jesus, and other truths contained in public revelation.  I
am sceptical of Medjugorge and the messages allegedly given to Cyndi
Cain because I know that for every authentic apparition there have
been many false apparitions resulting from hoaxes or delusions.
Also, while I have not studied the matter, I have read things that
make them seem dubious.

Marty Helgesen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:00:48 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer suggestion

How about also praying for their mothers?  --Carol
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:47:24 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      God's warnings.

well, I guess I can't imagine building and ark and not
being questioned about it.

And just because the warnings aren't widely known doesn't
necessarily mean they weren't there.

Yes, God can do whatever he wants whenever to whoever.

This does not give us permission to ignore warnings if
they are occuring.  Do we, as Christians continue to
follow the crowd because something against God's will
has become socially acceptable?  If there is a sign warning
about a cliff ahead, do we drive over it to make sure it's
there?  If there is no sign, do we drive over so we can
warn others?  Too late.

Now, you intellectuals can tear this apart, I just had to get
it off my chest.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAROL NEMEC                             +
YA67@FERRIS                           +++++
FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY                 +
BIG RAPIDS, MI 49307                    +   PHILIPPIANS 4:13
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:42:37 EDT
From:         John R Laplante <jlaplant@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: On-Line Bible: NASB available?
              'Oscar' Works" at Sep 3, 92 1:54 pm

>
> Dear CHRISTIA,
>
>      I recently FTP'd the On-Line Bible 5.00 from wuarchive.wustl.edu, and
> was wondering if anyone out there knows if there is a New American Standard
> Version (NASB) module available for it.  I think it's great, although I'm
> having some problems getting the mouse to work properly.  Anyone else out
> there have any tips?  Thanks!

  Last I knew, the Lockman Foundation has control over the NAS, and they
  keep _tight_ control. That is, they have the copyright. If you want
  a computerized version of it -- if you want _any_ computerized version
  of it, you must go to _them_ and ask for _their_ program. They don't
  license it out to others, like, say the NCC (RSV) or the IBS (NIV).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait
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Original_To:  CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:32:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Church of God of Prophecy

Hello everybody!

During our stay in Jamaica we came across a denomination that I'd never
heard of before. It is called 'Church of God of Prophecy'. First input
about this denomination wasn't as positive as our short glance made it
look like. I have met a person down there that made a new start with
Jesus and I feel kind of responsible for him. Since he attends this
church I'd like to know if any one of you has any information about this
denomination (particularly its Jamaican form). If so you may contact me
on list or privately.

Thanks
Wolfgang <><

<><--------<><---------<><--------<><---------<><--------<><---------<><
 Wolfgang Hutter       I  Internet: hutter@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de
 Abt. Chem. Physik     I  Bitnet:   hutter@dulruu51.bitnet
 Universitaet Ulm      I  X.400:    S=hutter;OU=RZ;P=uni-ulm;A=dbp;C=de
 W-7900 Ulm, Germany   I  Tel.:     (49)731-502-2829
From: scsd1055@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Our lady of the bigmouth (Tom Brewer)
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:05:18 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

>Subject: Their Lady of Cold Springs
>From: Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
>Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:30:35 CDT
>

[...material deleted]

	Hey Tom, try reading the postings from last week.  You will find that
the majority of the posters feel offended by your blatantly anti-Catholic
trash.  Give it a rest...


Bill Plunkett
scsd1055@altair.selu.edu


NOTE***********************************************************************
	This posting was modified after a few nice people pointed out that
I was indeed wrongfully accusing Tom of being anti-Semetic.  The offending
material was erased, and an apology to Tom was posted.
	Hey, I'm not too much of an ass to admit my errors....
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:39:09 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 2 Peter 3

Excuse me, please, Jesse. I can't recall my last post on this. Can you be
more explicit in your question:

>Dear Memo;

>What sort of specifics?


>Jesse

Shalom,
Memo.
PS   Prayer Voting:

Abortionists (1)      2
Bosnia       (2)      1.5
Somalia      (3)      2.5
Andrew's victims (4)  0
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Joseph
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:47:39 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Tom, I am not sure if you got my message or not.  If not, please send me
Joseph's phone number (or address) by "e-mail" and I will contact him from
here.
                                             Thanks, zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:55:06 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Their Lady of Guacamole

Mary was blessed.  I always looked upon her as blessed by God in that sentence
and never noticed bless-ed.If anyone can tell us the meaning of the original
scripture, it would be nice.  I always interpreted it as a verb instead of as
an adjective. Either way, we know that God found favor with Mary.  Suppose that
God had not found favor with Mary?  CHrist would still have been born and still
through the line of David.  Although of course we know that Jesus's body was
created for him by God.    Jesus's body  was created in heaven.

I know that Mary must have been very special and I never meant to insult her.
It is very easy to be insulted as I have demonstrated to a friend, when we
speak out against other denominations or organizations.  We don't have to
intend it, we only have to sent it and edit it too late when it comes back to
us.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:41:40 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Christian Youth

Hello Christia,
I teach youth sunday school at my church and I was wondering if
anyone knew of any thing that can help make our kids want to study
God's word more, exciting youth activities, or
good fund raising ideas so they can
raise money to go to camp again.
Thanks ...







   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      Re: Anti-Catholicism: "Saul, Saul, why ..."
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:55:11 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92082316000096@ASUACAD.BITNET> Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:
>Your statement that to follow Mary is, by implication, to follow
>Christ has a few flaws.
>
>Certainly, we should follow any leader, or any person, not
>*because* that person follows Christ, but *as* they do.  This
>means that we do not grant *anyone* special status for interpreting
>His will, because they, as we, are human and fallible.
>
>By your logic, if I follow Pat Robertson's financial advice, I
>am, by implication, following Christ, since he is an ordained minister.
>I follow neither Pat Robertson, nor the Pope, but Christ and Christ
>alone.

   No, we Catholics believe that Mary won't lead us anywhere but to
Christ.  There is a big difference between a Saint in Heaven, and a
person who has not yet gone the Heaven.  The former, being in the
presence of God, can know His will perfectly, so will not lead us
astray.  The latter, still having mortal imperfections, cannot be
expected to know God's will in such a way.

   The Pope is somewhat of an exception, in that the Holy Spirit
guarantees infaillibility in certain matters.  However, this
infallibility is limited to matters of faith and morals.  Nor is the
Pope guaranteed to teach truth; he is only prevented from teaching
falsity when speaking infallibly.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:19:29 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Hermenuetics

Jesse,

I agree with your definitions of hermenuetics.  It's you application of
those principles that I find problematic.  Perhaps I should have said
that I find your _exegesis_ problematic.  As you stated in a previous
post on this subject, an interpretation of a particular passage in
scripure should answer fewer questions than it raises.  I find your
interpretation of eschatological passages in the NT to do just the
opposite, and I have passed on to you some of the questions which I
feel are raised by your approach.  So far, you have not really
answered my questions in specific terms.  If the gospel being "preached
throughout the whole world" (Mt.24:14) and "all the tribes of the
earth . . . will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with
power and great glory" (Mt.24:30) are apocalyptic descriptions of events
that actually happened on or about 70 AD, then I would like you to
tell us how and when they happened and what those events were.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:40:58 -0500
From:         Jason Briggs Cormier <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: biblical interpretations on homosexuality

From: Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
>Mark,
>
>     I don't believe that practicing Homosexuals are saved any more than I
>believe that the churches should accept abortion as "Pro-Choice".  If the
>Methodist church has adopted that stance as someone stated here, then I am
>ashamed that I was a Methodist.  When we have the spirit of Christ within us,
>we are like Christ.  I won't even try to consider the notion that Christ would
>approve.  This is not biblical.  The bible plainly points out that God does
>not approve of murder or same sex.

First, I'd like to say that the Bible doesn't "plainly" say anything.  Every
single idea and issue in the Bible has been and will be interpreted in
different ways by different people, even those within the same church.
To provide a little example of issues which are interpreted differently
by different members of Christianity there is baptism(child or adult)
to name just one.

>How can we think God sactions that which
>is an abomination to him?  We have given the verses over and over and they
>just can't see them.  We shouldn't argue with anyone over this because it will
>never end.  I have been watching it for years on here.

On this, I'd like to suggest that you don't take the moral high ground.
Others can state the same thing.  "We have given the verses over and over
and you just can't see them.  We shouldn't argue with anyone over this because
it will never end."

I myself am not so afraid of ambiguity that I must shut out anything that
I either don't understand, like comprehend, etc.

Sorry if this is a little high-brow as well.  I just often feel that
Christians want to put everything into abosolutes, which is something
that I am not willing to do.

Jason
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Original_To:  BITNET%"christia@asuacad.bitnet"
Original_cc:  MARCHIBOLD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 20:10:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      A production van for KWBI

A couple of weeks ago I asked your prayers for the money to purchase a
television production van for our local Christian broadcast station.

The money has come through, praise God.  There are many opportunities to
do local production and now the means is available.  Thank you for your
prayers.  The station is owned by Colorado Christian University and
occupies the same building as a radio station.  The call letters for
both are KWBI - harkening back to when Western Bible Institute began
the radio station before it merged with Colorado Christian College.

Just a little Colorado history as a diversion from some other more emotion
laden threads.

Again, thank you all for your prayers.

In His Love  Molly Archibold
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X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:39:46 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      STRIKE #2...

 OK...
 YVETTE sent me a fastball... went right up the middle!
 DAN just threw me a slider... wizzed right past me...
 (Yikes... maybe I outta do something to prevent that
 third strike.... )
 What next, the dreaded sinker???
 OH well.... I'll just don my cap, choke up on the bat...
 and give it another swing... (Maybe...)
 "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:17:55 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Their Lady of Guacamole

Excuse me:

While I in no way believe in any of these apparitions of Mary, nor in
the traditions of the Catholic church, I think that deliberately
referring to "Their Lady of Guacamole" is flippant, rude, and
uncalled for. We may not agree with the RCC attitude toward Mary,
but I think it is incumbent upon us to recognize the reverence in
which she is held by those who do.  I tried very hard not to
insult those who disagree with me on this issue, and to speak the
truth as I know it in love.

To deliberately denigrate someone dear to another is unChristian.
I would not treat someone's friend or mother in this fashion, and I
do not think that ridiculing a deeply held belief has any chance of
changing that belief.

I expect to see things like this on the Politics list, but not here.

Please, let us strive to keep the level of dialogue here a bit
higher than the mud-pits over on the Politics list.

Thank you.

Love INC,

--Kerry
From: JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET (WKJ)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: RE: GOP Convention: Monday 8-17
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:29:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"

You are absolutely correct !!

Homoliphobia is fear of SERMONS!

WKJ
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From: DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU (MARK DRAKE)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: biblical interpretations on homosexuality
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:11:05 GMT
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X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu


	I've seen a number of phrases such as "your interpretation" being
written on the homosexuality issue.  Usually this is in reference to a
traditional interpretation of the biblical passages on homosexuality.  I think
however that people shouldn't expect others to completely change their
understanding of scripture simply because they are told repeatedly and with
emotion that it is out of date, or incorrect.

	I am hoping that one of you who have a non-traditional interpretation
of the _ New Testament _ passages talking about homosexuallity would be
willing to write about it.  How can I even consider a radically new position
if no one tells me why I should believe it?  All I hear is that I'm a terrible
person 'cause I wont let people have non-het, sexually active relationships.
This is reason enough to totally change my view on the sinfulnes of an
action?

Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu

ps the essay posted earlier really wasn't sufficient.  It's treatment of the
Old Testament passages was reasonable, but as I remember, it had only one
paragraph actually dealing with an interpretation of Paul, and it was
incomplete/flawed (depending on your position).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:21:17 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Their Lady of Guacamole

        Madge and Kerry,

        Thank you for your comments.  Christians can disagree on the
        amount of attention that should be paid to the Virgin Mary in
        fulfillment of her prophecy "from henceforth all generations
        shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48) and on her role in God's plan
        of salvation, but I do not understand those Christians who think
        they honor Christ by insulting His mother.

        Marty Helgesen
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