HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Fibre: Definition of Fibre
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:40:11 GMT




IV.  DEFINITION OF FIBRE

If there is confusion about fibre, it may largely be due to
the fact that dietary fibre does not constitute a single
entity.  Indeed, there is "no universally accepted
definition for this food component yet evolved" (Hunt &
Goff, 1990).

Dietary fibre has been conventionally defined as those foods
which enter the cecum (beginning of the large intestine)
unchanged.  But which "foods" and what kind of changes?
Maybe the most widely accepted definition was proposed by
Trowell et al (1976):

    "plant polysaccharides and lignin which are resistant to
    hydrolysis by the digestive enzymes of man"

One problems even with this definition is that it doesn't
include all the indigestible residues from food that may
reach the colon.  Another is that it is predicated on the
idea of "undigestability" as a criterion, but some so-called
"undigestible" foods (e.g., nonstarch polysaccharides) can
undergo fermentation by colonic bacteria thereby producing
short-chain fatty acids that can be used for energy by the
host.  On the other hand, potentially digestible starches in
varying amounts will reach the colon in an unaltered state.
Most researchers believe that materials such as resistant
starch and man-made ingredients should not be considered
components of dietary fibre.

It is interesting to note that no longer can the potential
energy in fibre be considered totally unavailable to the
human body.

                                     ted

References:

Hunt & Groff's (1990), ADVANCED NUTRITION AND HUMAN
    METABOLISM, 1990.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader)
Subject: Re: Ted Altar
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 15:10:54 GMT
Organization: Professional Student, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: dbader@mountaindew.eng.umd.edu


In article <1993Jan8.062121.7601@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
> [REPOSTS deleted]
>
>Abhay


Abhay,
  I can't understand why the readers of rec.food.veg are inflicted by your 
never ending generalizations.  Isn't it time you stopped reposting this
message?  There was a flame-war the last time, is that what you want again? 

Peace,
 david

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: WHO & Iron - Have They Gone Mad?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:21:15 GMT

In article <C0D66K.9wu@dircon.co.uk> uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes:
>
>I just caught part of an interview on BBC World Service
>with Dr. Barbara Underwood of the WHO (World Health
>Organisation).  She was making some pretty wild claims
>about vegetarians being deficient in iron.  At one point,
>the interviewer asked her what vegetarians should do about
>it. Part of her answer included the advice to eat RAW
>potatoes!!!
>
>Does anyone know if the WHO has an Internet address so I
>can follow this up?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- 
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>                     Peter Cox
>uad1214@dircon.co.uk           CompuServe 100012,221 

Geez! How exasperating!  It really does seem sometimes like the
"establishment" (excuse the old hippy term ) is really out to
get vegetarians despite all of the obviously apparent benefits.

I guess there is money to be lost and ways of living to feel
defensive about.

First it was protien, then B-12, then calcium, and now iron.  Something
tells me we are going to go through a "vegetarians cant get this---"
phase for every single damm nutrient before reactionary nutritionts
finally stop         

Steve

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Vitamin B Supplement?
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:17:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.135955.28963@cabell.vcu.edu> cjenson@cabell.vcu.edu (Cary E. Jenson) writes:
>
>Dear Friends,
>
>I've been an ovo-lacto (sp?) vegetarian for several years and am in
>excellent health. However, I recently read an excellent book about
>the impact of nutrition on cognition. The author was very balanced
>and even handed about vegetarianism but did make the point that V.s
>should take a B supplement.  I'm curious to know what you all think.
>How many take supplements? What kind? Is there any reason to pay for
>expensive name brands like Solar or Schiff when health food store
>brands are much less expensive?

	If you're eating a veried diet with sufficient calories, the chances
	that you're low on any "B" vitamin are not great, with the exception
	of B12, which may be more difficult than most to acquire on a purely
	vegan diet.  On the other hand, so little of it is required (only
	one or two micrograms per day) and so much is stored by the body,
	that three to five years may pass between cessation of B12 intake
	and appearance of deficiency symptoms.  A supplement of B12 now and 
	then will certainly address any possibility of deficiency, unless
	you have an absorption problem such as insufficient "intrinsic 
	factor."

	On the subject of "generic" vs. name brands, there is supposed to
	be no difference between active ingredients, BUT there is a great
	deal of controversy regarding the dissolving characteristics of
	some brands...undissolved multivitamin tablets have been found in
	sewage (and they were clearly not dumped down the commode by the
	handful).  Also, remember that, to be absorbed, vitamin B12 must
	be bound by "intrinsic factor" which is only secreted by the
	stomach during ingestion of food, so take your B12 supplement (or
	any vitamin supplement for that matter) with a meal.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: Questions
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:42:41 GMT

In article <C0GqG3.11z@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>,
bslandry@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Bruno S. Landry) wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> My girlfriend and I have recently switched to a vegetarian diet.
> We've been reading rec.food.veg for a few months but still have a 
> few unanswered (basic) questions:

Congrats on the switch! Hope we at r.f.v. are helping you become veggies
with ease. Ask questions at will, no matter how basic; we're here to help.
(hope the rest of r.f.v. doesn't mind the imperial "we" there....)
> 
> Since we have to change the water in tofu every day or so, does
> that mean that any food (not cooked) prepared using tofu will only keep
> a day or so in the fridge?

No, in my experience. Maybe because it's been cooked? Actually, tofu spread
keeps in the fridge for at least a week, for me, and that's not cooked....
If you buy tofu in bulk (from big tubs in a co-op, e.g.), make sure the 
date on the lid is recent; otherwise, your tofu might go bad sooner than
you'd like, regardless of water changes. 
> 
> We've seen kosher cheeses which include "microbial enzymes".  What is
> this stuff?  Vegetarian?

Probably the so-called "vegetable rennet", although the kashrut rules MIGHT
allow real rennet in kosher cheese (something about it being sufficiently
remote from the source). There was a discussion of this on r.f.v. not too
long ago, but I cqn't recall the exact outcome. If possible, contact the
manufacturer to make sure, if you're concerned.
> 
> One more...  Are pinto beans and romano beans the same?

No, unless someone has thought up a new & confusing name for pintos! Romano
beans are a variety of green bean, usually flat pole beans with good
flavor.
Pintos are a dried bean. If you're looking for a substitute for romano
beans, try regular green beans (not dried beans). 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bruno & Brigitte

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
From: glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Gelatin
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:50:10 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

waffle@steer.sdsu.edu (Kevin M. Savetz) writes:

>In article <1iss0tINNoa5@life.ai.mit.edu> jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson) writes:
>>
>>I think someone asked this before but I have to ask again since I can't 
>>remember the answer.  Are there any animal products in Jello  gelatin? I 
>>have a few boxes in the house and I'm craving something sweet.

>Ugh, gelatin is icky. Gelatin would be icky even if I weren't a vegetarian.
>Geletain is made thusly: incenerate a load of animal carcasses. Cremate them.
>Add flavoring to what;s left over. Enjoy. That's it. So jello is Right Out.

I don't think that's very accurate in detail, but yes, gelatin is an animal
product.  I think it forms on the top of home-made chicken soup when cooled.
From the paperback American Heritage Dictionary:  A transparent, brittle
protein formed by boiling the specially prepared skin, bones, and connective 
tissue of animals, and used in foods, drugs, and photographic film.

>Geletan is in many foods. Like marshmallows. Happily, foodmakers can (and 
>sometimes do) use pectin instead. Just as good, but its veggie-based.
>I have never found pectin-based marshmallows, though, and miss Rice Krispy
>treats. 

I have heard that they can be made with Marshmallow Fluff, which I think
does not contain gelatin.  Can someone confirm both of these points?

-- 
Every child shall be treated with complete respect.

Glen Ecklund     glen@cs.wisc.edu   (608) 262-1318 Office, 262-1204 Dept. Sec'y
Department of Computer Sciences        1210 W. Dayton St., Room 3355
University of Wisconsin, Madison       Madison, Wis. 53706  U.S.A.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: Silk
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:09:05 GMT

> 
[everyone's interesting comments deleted to save bandwidth]

Another problem with rayon is that much of it has to be dry-cleaned, which
adds to the previously mentioned deleterious effects on the environment ...
I'm uneasy about the silk question --- it's one of my favorite materials,
on a purely textural basis, but I don't like the idea that insects are
deliberately killed to get it. However, most of it IS hand washable. Cotton
farming is one of the worst things to hit the south and west (needs lots
o'pesticides and water), but now there's organic cotton becoming available,
which avoids the first problem at least (check Seventh Generation catalog,
for examples). Wool? At least they don't kill the sheep, but... 

As a gardener, I have to kill insects all the time --- I'd rather find ways
to repel them from plants (to avoid the ickiness factor of killing them, if
nothing else), but that's unrealistic. Ditto for slugs. Even if you only
eat organic food, insects have died for you! So where does this leave us? 

I dunno, it's hard trying to be a thinking AND ethical (but practical)
person! Ignorance truly is bliss... :^<

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
From: jerryg@jaiser.rain.com (Jerry Gaiser)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: supplements
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:24:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: jaiser.R7D5wB2w165w
Organization: Jerry's Attic, Gaston OR

abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:

> In article <Ze01wB1w164w@fatcity.cts.com> liz@fatcity.cts.com (elizabeth host
> >a cat can only be vegetarian with the aid of supplements, though...
> 
> Did you miss Ted's two postings on Little Tyke, a lion ?
> 
> Abhay
> 

Abhay, are you a Vet or an animal nutritionist? You really should stay in
your own area of expertise. Cats _require_ Taurine in the diets. That means
that they must eat meat or they must be given supplements. Period.

--
Jerry Gaiser (jerryg@jaiser.rain.com)              (voice) 503-359-4017
Fidonet 1:105/380                                    (bbs) 503-359-5111
PBBS n7pwf@n7pwf.or.usa.na
                                                 .. I read banned books ..
From: jfield@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (James Field)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Insulting Your Family
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:47:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1993Jan6.185103.10940@wam.umd.edu> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
>From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>
>
>Steve Russell writes:
>
>
>>It has been my experience that the majority of these situations ( not all )
>>are tenuous at best.  Just remind your parents you still love/respect them
>>and value your heritage and by all means dont let them manuever you into
>>doing "nutrition talk" at the dinner table.  Tell them you would be happy
>>to talk about it, after dinner etc.  It will be a less threatening and
>>tense situation.

It's funny. Two years in a row now someone has asked me while they
were eating Christmas dinner why I am a vegetarian. Both times I
tried my best to politely tell them that right then was not the most
appropriate time for me to get into those issues.


>	Vegetarians also dont like being asked "Are you a vegetarian?"
>	"Why?"  "Where do you get your protien etc"? everytime they
>	sit down to a meal as well.  Depending on my mood I either lie
>	and say Im not a veg or explain to the person as politely as I
>	can that these questions were fun when I first became a veg when
>	I was 14, but now at 28 after hearing them umpteen times I just
>	want to be left alone to enjoy my food.

The question I get that annoys me is always, "Are you still a
vegetarian?" I'm still enough of an activist that I would never lie
about it though. I think it is important that people with
countercultural practices stand up for them. But I sure don't want
to do it at the dinner table.


James Field
jfield@ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Insulting you family?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:37:10 GMT

In article <C0EtMz.Iut@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cgk@n.tam.uiuc.edu (Chris Kocher) writes:
>
>	I've recently made a conversion to a new, healthier diet, but I'm
>the only one in my family to do so.  My parents are both of German
>extraction, though at different points down the line, so our family diet
>was all meat and potatoes.  Well, whenever I go to visit my parents, 
>that's all they eat.  It's hard for me to tell them that I don't want to
>eat their food, especially when I know they've gone to considerable
>effort to fix it.  I feel especially uneasy when they prod me further to
>ask about my diet, and I tell them how unhealthy their food is.  
>Fortunately, they appear to understand.  Does anyone else have this
>difficulty?  I'm curious to know what others' experiences have been.
>
>Chris
>
>P.s.  If anyone near Janesville, Wisconsin, is interested, I can put
>them in touch with a FANTASTIC nutripath there.
>

It has been my experience that the majority of these situations ( not all )
are tenuous at best.  Just remind your parents you still love/respect them
and value your heritage and by all means dont let them manuever you into
doing "nutrition talk" at the dinner table.  Tell them you would be happy
to talk about it, after dinner etc.  It will be a less threatening and
tense situation.

Good Luck
SFJR

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Subject: vegans and 'establishment' nutrition (was re:  WHO...)
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:33:40 GMT

I've just begun to read _Apetite for Change_, a social history of the counter-
culture's impact on food, so I'll probably tell you more about this in a week,
but I did notice that the new _LaRousse Gastronomique_, the bible of gourmet
cooking, has entries on vegetarianism and veganism.  The first edition didn't
mention veg'ism at all, so maybe we should be happy, but this one says vegies
must be attentive, and the vegan says jyou must be very careful not to wind
up deficient in protein (ARRRRGH!), calcium, iron and B12.  

I've commented on this before, but it still drives me bugfuck.

Billy Magic

"You can't tell vegans from omnivores except that they're slimmer and perhaps
smile more."  Frey R. Ellis, MD
From: sbhattac@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: veg ghee
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:22:57 GMT
Distribution: rec.food.veg
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <fiddick.726544996@condor> fiddick@condor.ucsb.edu (Laurence Fiddick;) writes:
>i was wondering how i'd make vegetable ghee? could i just use regular
>margarine?

There are two aspects to ghee.

One is the texture, which is a function of both the degree of saturation of
the fat, and of the distribution of fatty acids in the fat. You can
approximate the saturation, but you cannot easily approximate the fatty
acid distribution. Still, rather highly saturated vegetable fats can come
close.

The second aspect is the flavour. There is no reasonable way to fake that.
I have never seen a fake ghee, derived from vegetable oil, which had a
flavour anything at all like the real thing. The ones I have tried were
just irritatingly reminiscent of the real thing. They spat in my eye and
said, "You could be using real ghee; instead of which you're trying to make
do with this junk."

I think the sensible approach is simply to accept that if ghee is not
acceptable in your diet, for whatever reason, you will do without it.

I don't base that on any philosophical position on ghee, animal products,
etc. etc. I simply don't think the flavour is duplicable in any
reasonable way, and success is even less likely at home.

- Shankar
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Flaming & Gay Cats
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:51:26 GMT

	I have seen enough flamewars like the current one over the gay
cat jokes to know they are common on the net and almost all of them
start as stupidly as this one.

	If someone offends you and you know the idiot didnt realise
what he was saying E_MAIL him and explain yourself.  Calling him various
pejoratives on the net just backs him into a corner making him more 
defensive, escalating the situation.

	For the people who think we are all big enough to take a little
ethnic/subculture joking I have something to say to you as well.  "WE"
( just about everyone in the world ) ARE NOT.  Some people belong to
the minority groups you joke about.  Many still suffer from defensiveness
from the prejudice they experience and your jokes arent jokes to them.
  Spare me the "it was just a joke, they are taking it to seriously"
Bull Shit.  Just about everyone says that until THEIR group takes a hit
from such a liberated "comedian/critc".


	Lets be adults, apologize when we inadvertantly offend someone.
  It doesnt make us wrong or an asshole.  Lets also realise we arent standing
up for ourselves by flaming such jokers.  It just turns someone with poor
social judgement into an entrenched defensive critic who is more likely
to accept as truth the stupid joke he started with after being flamed.

Steve R
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: RE: Insulting Your Family
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:51:03 GMT

From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:


Steve Russell writes:


>It has been my experience that the majority of these situations ( not all )
>are tenuous at best.  Just remind your parents you still love/respect them
>and value your heritage and by all means dont let them manuever you into
>doing "nutrition talk" at the dinner table.  Tell them you would be happy
>to talk about it, after dinner etc.  It will be a less threatening and
>tense situation.

This is excellent advice!  Especially good is the concrete suggestion
not to get suckered into, or initiate, "nutrition talk" at the dinner 
table.  Family members constitute an intertwined "system" and the
underlying tensions, cracks, dynamics and so on of that system are
often most powerfully expressed and enacted around the dinner table.
Much more than eating simply occurs around the dinner table.  One
risky technique in family therapy actually consists of a session around
the dinner table!   Don't try it on your own, leave well enough 
alone.

						ted

 
	I never knew that.  I just know from my own experience people
	dont like having their food analysed, especially when they
	are the process of ingesting it.  Vegatarians dont win friends/
	converts by pointing out to their friends that "the piece of
	dead animanl they are chewing on is destroying them and the 
	environment etc".

	Vegetarians also dont like being asked "Are you a vegetarian?"
	"Why?"  "Where do you get your protien etc"? everytime they
	sit down to a meal as well.  Depending on my mood I either lie
	and say Im not a veg or explain to the person as politely as I
	can that these questions were fun when I first became a veg when
	I was 14, but now at 28 after hearing them umpteen times I just
	want to be left alone to enjoy my food.

Steve






Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Question about asthma
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 01:56:21 GMT

Without a doubt, cutting out dairy has made a MASSIVE difference in  my
asthma.  Try it, even if only for a month, like I did.  You'll notice a
change.
 
Of course, staying away from cats WILL help, too.
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: GM & animal testing
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:59:37 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <EfGPryO00iV002_2sO@andrew.cmu.edu> rs57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ruthann Schmidt) writes:
>I don't have the name of a strictly animal rights newsgroup, so I've
>posted this question here. Does anyone know the person/dept/address to
>where I may send a letter to GM concerning the company's use of live
>animals in testing? You can either send email to me or post to the group.
>

John F Smith, Jr
President, General Motors
3044 W. Grand Blvd.
GM Building
Detriot  MI  48202
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Cure worse than the disease?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:51:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.233516.10459@sarah.albany.edu> la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>Actually, I appreciate all of the feedback on the lights and vitamin D.
>But what I am looking for is information on the lights that are used
>in SAD therapy, which I suspect I may have.

Doesn't the danger of extra UV exposure completely undo any benefit? Why
not just take supplements instead of increasing your skin cancer risk?

-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568
From: ded@kps.se (David Edwards /DP)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Question about asthma
Summary: Does vegetarian diet help asthma?
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:50:11 GMT
Organization: Kuwait Petroleum, Stockholm, Sweden

Hello everyone,

During the Christmas holidays we had a visit from my bother- and
sister-in-law along with their 3 kids. We had not seen them for some
time and it seems that the second child who is about 7 years old has
developed asthma. Although he didn't have an attack while with us, he
gets them quite often, especially around animals.

Anyway, does anybody have information about whether a vegetarian diet 
could help the youngster's condition? I would like to pass it along
to my sister-in-law.

Thanks in advance,
David Edwards
===============================================================================
"The crux... is that the vast majority of the mass of the universe
seems to be missing." -- William J. Broad
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg