From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: [This is what Corey and Tim says] This is what the Jehovah's Witnesses do.
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:59:47 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England

In article <LAURAF.92Jul24135538@wolf.eecs.umich.edu> lauraf@eecs.umich.edu (Laura Falk) writes:

>>> Please do!!!! I keep an open mind just as long as what is being said agrees 
>>> with the bible.

>> Gosh, how open. See above.

> I accept the bible as Jehovah's word, which is far superior to that of mans.
> Why would anyone want to go through channels when they can go right to the
> source?!?!  (Men are imperfect; Jehovah is perfect.)

I've dealt with this stance and its illogic in another article on this
thread, to which you haven't yet responded. I'll reproduce the salient
point here:

# Trouble is that in accepting The Bible as "Jehovah's word", *you* had to
# make the judgement that it *is* indeed Jehovah's word. You trusted human
# reason (i.e. your own) at that point.
# 
# To reject human reason thereafter ("If man disagrees with the bible, he
# is wrong!") is inconsistent, since you have based your acceptance of The
# Bible on your own human reason.
# 
# This applies equally well even if you were to claim direct experience of
# God telling you that _The Bible_ is true, such as visions or whatever it
# might be: *you* decide that these are genuine and not hallucinations.
# 
# There's simply no way around it.

... or so I reckon. More below.


>>> You are right, Tim, it does take courage to admit when one is wrong!!
>>> However, I have a question: why is it JW's loss if Corey gives up
>>> everlasting life for Satan's system, which as he well knows will be
>>> destroyed very soon?

>> As who "well knows"? If you mean Corey, I don't think Corey "well knows"
>> this at all; indeed, Corey has recently shaken off this ludicrous belief
>> among many others. Hallelujah, as it were. Corey now seems to possess the
>> open mind which you clearly do not from your comments above.

> On the contrary, Corey does know the teachings.

But he doesn't know that "Satan's system...will be destroyed very soon",
which was what you said he knew. I'm sure he knows that it's a JW teaching,
but that isn't the same thing.


> As far as believing them, that is a different story.

You betcha.


> That is funny you mention the word "Hallelujah". Please look it up in
> the dictionary.  It means "praise Jehovah"!

I know. The intention was humorous, hence the "as it were".


> But I do have an open mind. Just show me from the bible and I will listen.
> As I mentioned above, I have a tendency to accept the words of a "perfect
> creature" before those of an "imperfect creature".

See above (the bit reproduced from my other article).

However you slice it, you use *your* (mortal, fallible) human reasoning in
judging, and continuing to judge, that _The Bible_ is the Word of God.

Unless *you* are omniscient, you cannot be sure that it *is* the Word of
God. Do you claim omniscience, or do you agree that you could be wrong
about _The Bible_?


> Regards,
> Laura

Cheers

Simon
-- 
Simon Clippingdale                simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science    Tel (+44) 203 523296
University of Warwick             FAX (+44) 203 525714
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