HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Petch@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck Petch)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:03:31 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: oboe.gvg.tek.com

In article <1992Nov17.193128.21575@mcs.anl.gov>, nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov
(Jim Wylde) wrote:
> 
> Ok..... This shit is getting deep enough.  I gotta jump in here...
> 
> >>What I said was that all homosexuals do not pick up these
> >>mannerisms.  That does not mean that a mannerism cannot be commonly
> >>associated with homosexuality.
> 
...deletion...
 
> You also don't seem to be too interested in mentioning any of the
> GOOD mannerisms associated with gays/lesbians....  
> 
> I'd also like to know what you'd do.  Would you storm into the
> principals office and demand that junior be taken from Mr. 
> Smothers english class ....
> 
> Do you picture us "teaching" homosexuality?...
> 
> I hate to disappoint you, but most of us are professionals, and
> conduct ourselves in that manner, no matter what profession we
> may be in...
>  
> What exactly are you afraid of?  Why do you hate us this much?
> ...You refer to me like I am on the same social level as a drug dealer...
  What warrants
> making me seem that evil?

Jim, I guess you and the rest of the net didn't see my earlier posting a
couple of days ago to talk.religion.misc entitled "Homosexual Nightmare." I
answered some of these questions in that article, but apparently the
article is no longer posted, so I'll do it again in briefer form.

Being blunt, I don't think it's the mannerisms that really bother people.
Rather it's the fact that during the last 5000 years of Judeo-Christian
history, homosexuality has been considered immoral. In the Bible, God calls
it "an abomination." Those of us who try to live by Judeo-Christian moral
standards find homosexuality morally offensive, and many of us prefer to
shelter our children from that and other immoral or unhealthy influences
because we do not want them to follow what we consider a bad example. As
parents, it's our right to bring our children up according to whatever
standard we choose.

Unfortunately, there are many homosexuals who *do* try to influence
children toward the homosexual lifestyle. I just saw a tv news report last
Sunday in which a lesbian was talking to a group of 10-year old public
school children about how wonderful it is to be a lesbian. I think that's
wrong, and I have the right to demand that the schools not expose my child
to that kind of indoctrination. Accordingly, I believe a law preventing
schools from advocating homosexuality and other forms of immorality is
entirely reasonable. My value system (the Bible) is banned from schools;
why should yours (which I find highly offensive) be permitted?

It's not a matter of hate or fear. It's simply that I want the best for my
child, and exposing her to immoral influences is not what I consider  best.

Chuck Petch
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Truth in topic
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:54:53 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Nov21.184129.11977@en.ecn.purdue.edu>,
muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) wrote:
> It is very interesting to scan through all the topics addressed on
> this group (misc. religious) and note that overall Christianity in
> its various forms is discussed much more than anything else.
> 
> Could this qualify it as a "best bet"?

Maybe it's the most controversial religion, with no ties to
any others, as well. Also, it causes a lot of confusion due
to lack of historical evidence, and logic in statements in
the Bible.

Note that just because one issue is highly debated does not
imply that it's something profound. For instance, does 
the heavy abortion discussion imply that abortion is the most
important human activity?

> Is there relevance to the fact that Jesus was the most influential
> man who ever lived _by far_, even though we are in disagreement as to
> the type of influence?

I agree that he is very influential concerning the *Western world*,
note however that there are big cultures out there that don't have
access to the Net, and who cares little about Christianity. 

Actually, I would like to see more discussion about non-Christian
religions on t.r.m -- I agree that this newsgroup is artificially
too much biased towards Christianity. There are many other religions
in the world.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Is satan really evil?
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:46:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/(pwhite)
/Let's say that your house was on fire. I could come up, bang on the door
/and with great concern for your well being, say, "Hey! Your house is burning
/get out of there quick."
/Or I could stand out on the street and yell, "Nyahh, nyahh your house
/is burning, I hope you burn up with it because I don't care a fig for you."

/Peter White



Very bad analogy.


Here is a more correct one:


I rule the house.  I rule the neighborhood as well.  I even own you.

You must listen to me and obey me, but I won't force you.  If you don't, 
however, then I have decided that the penalty for not listening to me is for 
me to lock you in your house and then I will set the house on fire.  And
you will stay in that fire forever. 

I didn't have to make the penalty that high; I just decided I wanted to.  I 
could have simply ended your life, or waved my hand and made you cease to 
exist, but this is the way I chose to do it instead.

You can use my patented Escape Hatch (TM) to get out of the flames.  It 
is the only way out of the flames; I have written the rules to be that way.

I will only save you from the flames if you do things my way and use the
Escape Hatch.  If you do things differently, too bad.  You burn.  From my
perspective, doing things my way is more important to me than saving 
your butt.

If you try your best and have an honest heart, that's simply not good
enough.  You burn.

And, if no one ever tells you about my patented Escape Hatch (TM), also
too bad.  You still burn.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Proofs of the Bible (Long, but filled with information)
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:53:31 GMT

Sorry folks, but I couldn't resist this one . . .

In article <1992Nov11.131233.3887@wkuvx1.bitnet>, barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>   Comparison to other documents:
> 
> ANCIENT LITERATURE             # MANUSCRIPTS           PROXIMITY TO
>                                                        ORIGINAL COPY
> -----------------------------  ----------------------  -------------
> Livy's History of Rome                 20                500 yrs
> Caesar's Gallic Wars                   10                900 yrs
> Tacitus' Annals                         2                800 yrs
> History of Thucydides                   8              1300+ yrs
> History of Heroditus                    1               1000 yrs
> Writings of Aristotle                   5              1400+ yrs
> 
>   Now remember - all of these are universally regarded as accurate.  Let's
> compare them to the New Testament - 24,633 total MSS and 5338 complete MSS!
> The second-most is Homer's Iliad, with only 643.  In addition, these date
> to within 40-300 years of the autograph.  To reject the accuracy of these
> is to reject all we know about the ancient world as historically inaccurate
> as well.

You know, I'm really sick of this stupid argument, it'd have to be up there with
the 'Lord/Liar/Lunatic' argument on the scale of fundie sophistry. Hey Jeff, can
you think of any reason why there would be so many manuscripts of the NT?
Could it be anything to do with the fact that christianity was the dominant religion
in the Medditeranean and European worlds from the 3rd to the 19th centuries
and therefore there were an absolute shit-load of people producing, storing and
protecting MSS of this work? Could that have anything to do with the disproportionate
number of NT MSS? And could the relative scarcity of various pagan texts have
something to do with the fact that the guys who were in the business of copying
and protecting books after tha fall of the Roman Empire were christians, many
of whom openly declared that pagan works were worthless, and who were hard 
pushed to preserve even their own christian books, let alone abstruse works by 
Aristotle? Could that be the answer Jeff?
 
[The rest of Jeff's amusing arguments deleted.]

Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)
Subject: Re: Just a seasonal observation.
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:12:16 GMT

In article <adams.722186101@spssig>
adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>I have taught my children from the beginning that
>there is no such thing as Santa Claus.  My 3-year old happily tells anyone
>who cares that he is just 'a man in a suit playing make-pretend.'  And he
>knows that Christmas is "God's birthday".
>
 
He knows or he knows that it is supposed to? So you tell your children that
there is a god and not that that you believe that there is a god?
 
Anyway, this god must be Sol Invictus whose birthday the christians blatantly
plagiarized.
   Benedikt
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: rks@cscns.com (Island's Child)
Subject: Re: Prayer in Public Schools
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:49:47 GMT

usenet@nmsu.edu writes:
: I have one question:  if you are a true Christian, why do you need an
: earthly authority figure to tell you its okay to pray?

That is exactly right! It has been said that there is plenty of praying
going on in school whenever there is a test. It makes most sense to me
that one would take his or her own intiative and *not* count on the 
government to either approve or disapprove. 

: When I was a Christian, I prayed a lot, including during school hours.
: Never bothered me that school hadn't set aside an OFFICIAL time for
: prayer.  No teacher ever said to me, "You are NOT allowed to pray
: during school hours!"

And no one is saying now that one should not be allowed to pray -- only
that it should not be an official prayer -- including everyone. If there
was ever a prayer designed to be entirely politically correct and 
designed to offend no one, it would be so watered down as to be 
meaningless anyway. 

I am not a Christian and feel already that Christianity has already
inculcated itself into every facet of the culture. (And, PLEASE, 
no discussion on the supposed fact that this is a Christian nation!)
It seems only logical that one's praying should b a private affair, to
the deity of one's choice. 


gisle
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Problems with Paul's history of Jesus
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:49:50 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <fVwuGsX@quack.sac.ca.us>, pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
wrote:
> "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity", Hyam Maccoby. A
> provocative work arguing that Jesus remained a faithful Jew and that
> Christianity was created by Paul, who synthesized it out of Gnosticism
> and other Hellenistic cults. ISBN: 0-06-015582-5

It's been a while since I last read the book, however I don't think
he was hinting at Gnostic sources for Paulian Christianity. However
Larson in his books tries to map Christianity to a lot of other
Mid East cults and religions, and he produced some nice parallels
between Mitras worshipping and Christianity. It would not
be surprising if most if not all religions were inspired by
other religions. 

Note for instance how current day Christianity threads have 
separated, and in many cases influences by other cultures
have molded the doctrines (Mormonism, JV, Catholic church,
the Coptic church...).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Subject: Re: Qur'an recognizes Bible as inspired(was Jesus is a Prophet..etc)
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:14:45 GMT

In article <5945@balrog.ctron.com> king@nickel.Sgi.COM (John E. King) writes:

>YES,  the Qur'an does say the gospels are inspired.  At Sura 9:11
>it states,"Such is the true promise which He has made them in the
>Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran." (Also see Sura 5:65). 

Muslims (convienently) teach that what we have as the Torah and the 
Gospels are fabrications.  I think they believe that Jesus Christ wrote the
Gospel (Injiil) or perhaps transmitted it, and it was written down.



Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,rec.scouting,talk.politcs.misc
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Subject: Redundency is IMPORTANT
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:11:42 GMT

phill@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Phill Solomon) writes:
] >>10710736@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (ANDREW EDGAR) writes:
] >>] In Australia the whole question of which "God" is solved by putting in the 
] >>] promise,
] >>] 
] >>]   'To do my duty to *my* god'
] >>] 
] >>] which implies that you should believe in a god of any religion.
] 
] The Scout promise is ment to be personal, "on MY honour I promise"
] therefore the inclusion of the word "my" is not needed.
] 
] I better add IMHO !

Quite CLEARLY it is your opinion....

ONE NEEDS to specify which HONOR one is making the PLEDGE UPON,
as there is a difference between 'my HONOUR' and say,
"Upon the Honour of the Rgt."

Unless ONE IS the Regiment, and all that.....


ciao
drieux


-- 
Modern Day Problems:
Little Miss Muffett, sat on a ToughtIt,
Eating her Kurds and Weighs, Along came a Spider,
and she drove off with the Neat Guy with a HOT CAR!
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:27:08 GMT
 <92324.122242EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <adams.722198596@spssig> <1992Nov21.115144.5748@desire.wright.edu>
Organization: SPSS Inc.

sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:

>In article <adams.722198596@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>> <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>> 
>>>I just wonder:  can an animal sin?  (I mean animals aside from humans)
>> No.  Animals are not 'free, moral agents.'
>> 
>>>The reason I ask this is because homosexuality exists among other animals just
>>>as it does with humans.   Are these animals sinning as well?   Will they also
>>>go to hell even though they have no concept of this human insanity we call
>>>religion (to our present knowledge )?
>> 
>> Animals do not go to heaven or hell and do not have souls.
>> 
>>  -Steve
>
>How do YOU know that?  Prove it.
>
>Sue

Being as the existence of heaven and hell are unprovable, that particular
part is certainly unprovable.

Being as the existence of the soul is unprovable, that too makes the above
unprovable.

But, if we take the Bible as the basis for the argument, then the statement
stands.  Man was the only creature created in God's image and with a soul.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.philosophy.misc
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Duality of wave/particle, human/divine [Was: ... or chavinism?]
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:01:15 GMT

In article <nyikos.722202424@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>I have seen an "explanation" in Eddington's classic _The Nature of the 
>Physical World_ but it does not explain the wave/particle duality to
>my satisfaction.  Can you suggest a specific textbook?  Taking a course
>is not appropriate for me, although as a Professor I have the privilege of 
>listening in on courses.  But do you seriously think they "reconcile" the
>wave-like properties of matter with the particle-like properties?
Perhaps you misunderstand. The only acceptable answer to this question
is "Mu." Particles and waves are macroscopic objects which have
no real meaning on the quantum level. There is no reason that they
should accurately describe QM and as it turns out they don't.

-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:55:21 GMT
Organization: Apple
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Nov18.180839.24740@cs.joensuu.fi>, asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi
(Antti Siivonen) wrote:
> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik ) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Nov16.182719.4513@cs.joensuu.fi>, asiivo@cs.joensuu.fi
> >> 	Not necessarily good ones. I was a terrorist. 
> 
> >Just an interesting observation, if you maintain that you were
> >a Lutheran terrorist, it does not automatically imply that Lutherans
> >create terrorists. Neither does your current statement overrule
> >the fact that former terrorists are drawn to certain religious
> >orders. You have two issues, terrorism and religion, and if you
> >want to connect them somehow (something I think it naive) it 
> >will evidently make more connections that you asked.
> 
> 	I was an atheist. 

So does this imply that all atheists are terrorists, or that
you as an individual were a terrorist, and an atheist as well?

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Problems with Paul's history of Jesus
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Nov14.162532.3606@unixland.natick.ma.us> 
	<1992Nov17.235036.27187@digi.lonestar.org>
Date: 19 Nov 1992 00:44:33 UTC

In article <1992Nov17.235036.27187@digi.lonestar.org> 
gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>The argument over whether Christ or the Gospels or Paul state authoritatively
>that Christ was the Son of God is less interesting than the way in which
>Christ himself approached the issue.

Jesus spoke in Aramaic and we don't have a record of his speaches in
Aramaic so we have no idea what he himself actually said. Case closed.
For all we know, the Christian gospels in Greek may have been written
or edited by Paul and so we are dependent on Paul's history of Jesus
since there are no other accounts of Jesus, if he even existed as an
actual historical figure.

>Another difficulty with the fundamentalist (and also main stream) view of 
>Christ is the idea that knowledge and acceptance of him can only come 
>within the bounds of this one life on earth.  The more I read and 
>participate in this forum the more convinced I become that Christianity 
>needs desparately to come to terms with the reality of repeated earth 
>lives, and destiny (karma) as fundamental to the central principles of
>Christianity, in other words to understand it in terms of the reality
>of Christ's incarnation, death and resurrection.

Are you sure you don't mean reincarnation instead of resurrection?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: todd@toolz.uucp (Todd Merriman)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Nightmare
Organization: Software Toolz, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:34:24 GMT

Petch@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck Petch) writes:
>I have nothing agaist any homosexual as a person, but I believe their
>lifestyle is an abomination, and I refuse to stand idly by and watch while
>they begin to teach their lifestyle to children. It's time for the rest of
>us who have some standards of morality to take back our society from those
>who are pushing us to accept and tolerate their immorality.

Your self-righteous, uneducated, and hysterical raving is a fine
example of immoral behavior.  That kind of behavior is an
abomination.  I hope that this is not what you are teaching your
children, and I refuse to accept and tolerate your form of
immorality.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *********************
* Todd Merriman - Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the *
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: phys224@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: Is satan really evil?
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:46:33 GMT

Don't listen to jsv also from nz,he's a fundementalist who
takes pleasure in taking one side then arguing the opposite when he
thinks he has ingratuated with you.It never works!he has no knowledge of
mathematics (he is actually from the music department,and uses a maths
address to give his arguments some apparent validity when he writes to origins,
with his flat earth theories,etc.)
watch this one,he's a real nutter.






 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc