HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 28 Sep 1992 10:25:55 EDT
From: <IO81373@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: NEW VISA SYSTEM FOR CIS


     I heard on CNN the other day something to this effect:  To
make the CIS more open to Western media journalism, alot of visa
restrictions were being lifted.  I'd guess this wasn't a big story
to them, because there was no mention of the new requirements.

     Question being:  What do I have to do as an american wanting
to visit the CIS in order to get a Visa NOW????  I just spent a year
in Austria and didn't get to the CIS because the visa requirements
were so strict (required basically that I either go with a group or
that I'm invited by someone).  Is all this a thing of the past??

Thanks,   Dougly


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%%Douglas Julien| "It's our own world we paint, |371 Colege Ave #18 %%
%%aka Dougly    | and I want the brightest, I   |  Orono, Maine     %%
%%aka Almdudler | want flourescence..."   FNM   |    04469   USA    %%
%%              |===============================|                   %%
%%IO81373@MAINE.bitnet                       9124061@AWIWUW11.bitnet%%
%%io81373@maine.maine.edu                     Dougly@UMAINECS.bitnet%%
%%                                                                  %%
%%Opinions expressed are neither those of the University of Maine   %%
%%nor of the Universitaet Salzburg, but what do they know???????    %%
%%==================================================================%%
%% "Die meisten verarbeiten den groessten Teil der Zeit, um zu leben%%
%%und das bisschen, das ihnen von Freiheit uebrigt bleibt, aengstigt%%
%%sie so, dass sie alle Mittel aufsuchen, um es los zu werden."     %%
%%                                                -J.W. Goethe      %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 12:58:28 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

>That letter is from a person whose education is one of the best that America
>can offer, and (this is my claim) probably as good as the best that Russia
>can offer.  Now, you are comparing systems by some math scores.  Is it the
>only, and is it the best way to compare?  I don't completely agree that it
>is either best or only.  Consider a different matric: quality of education
>system is based on how much an average individual can get out of it. Would
>you then be able to say that Russian or Chinese systems are better?
>
>----Garik.

The magic word that you keep using is "can". The system is measured not
on what it can offer, but on its fan-out of education. That's what
a system is for, not to offer to some Lomonosov-type individual the best
environment. The score is more or less the only tangible way to compare
systems. Not only your other metric is really hard to measure, it is
rather immaterial.

Oleg V
From: muh@physics20 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 30 Sep 1992 20:24:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics20.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Russian students, "cookbook recipes."

In article <1992Sep30.192224.33767@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>soderzhanie soobsheniya. Neadekvatnoe soobshenie vosprinimaetsya 
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Celikom i polnost'ju, edinoglasno, ves' kak odin p[rosoedinjaus'.

>Koroche, drugoi by uvidel ssylku na "igru v biser", kuda bolee 
>yavstvenno vypirayuschuy is "biser, Poigraem".

Nu, chto'z, ja uvidel javstvenno vypirajuschee is vsei stat'i chuvstvo
prevoshodstva nad neobrazovannoj publikoj i progljadel javstvenno vypertuju 
is zakpluchitel'noi frazy vysokuju erudiciju avtora. Pozor na moju seduju golovu.

>obscheupotrebitel'nogo slovosochetaniya, ravno kak i ego analogov.

"On ponjal davno, 
chto ochen' vazhno ne igrat' v domino ..."

K sozhaleniju s teh por process ponimania neskol'ko zatormozilsja.

>Posemu pros'ba v bor'be s vetryanymi mel'nicami za mnoi ne gonyat'sya.
>I naoborot.

Posemu pros'ba kryljami bolee na okruzhajuschih ne mahat'.

>
>Eshe voprosy?

Eshe otvety?

>
>:-)

:-)

Yury
>	-igor 


Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8114 talk.politics.soviet:8246
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 28 Sep 1992 09:28:40 CDT
From: ---  BORYS  --- <U52539@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,uic.ukrainian,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Ukrainian Consulate in Chicago

  Plans are going ahead for establishing a Ukraine Consulate here in Chicago.
There will be a meeting at the Ukrainian Cultural Center this Friday to explain
how the consulate will work and a chance to meet some of the representatives.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: education
Date: 30 Sep 1992 18:01:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

I red funny story in SF cronicle (from Wash.post). Some company started
producing talk Barbie. Among other things she says "Math class is tough".
Association of math teachers 9or something like this) protested, saying
that this discouraging interest to math among girl. Company spokes(wo)man
replied that it also says something supporting math: "I'm studying to be a
doctor", "We should start our own business", "Computers make studying fun".

Yury
From: smir+@CS.CMU.EDU (Yury Smirnov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Use of Western software in the CIS
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:08:14 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <14100.2acf3539@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu  ( Viznyuk Serega & Co ) writes:
|> > davidson@ccrs.emr.ca (David Davidson) writes:
|> > 
|> >>A private software firm has asked me to find out how Ukrainians, Russians
|> >>etc. use software with an english interface. They are not prepared to
|> >>rewrite their code but someday wish to market their software in E. Europe.
|> > 
|> Huh, I know the simplest way how to "russify" the existing
|> software: just use the DUMP editor to change the output ASCII
|> characters in _machine code_. The only thing required is a
|> little bit of imagination: the number of characters in
|> a "Russian" text should match the number of substituted
|> "English" chars.
|> 
   The simplest way, for my oppinion, is to present west software
   to Russian hackers. If they find it interesting, in 2-3 months
   it will be completely "russified". But still it isn't mandatory
   to translate everything, each reasonable user can uderstand even
   hungarian or portugees if it's really necessary.

   Yury.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 17:08:08 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Oct5.111321.16089@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) as usually writes something not quite well so to say
correct:
>From scs patented Cthulhu worshipper:
>
>In article <1992Oct05.131559.29645@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>>FYI - I believe Anna Karamazoff was one of typical Nabokov's jokes.
>>Everything needs explanations in this damned group.
>
>Do you believe that everything needs *wrong* explanation
>on this damned group? 

No - that's where your and my (definitely not 'our' :-) 
approaches are different.

>The joke has nothing to do with Nabokov.
>Anna Karamazoff was the name of the hit French play
>from Russian life of 20-ies. It was tongue-in-cheek, and the 
>mainstay personages (all male) were Petrushka,
>Babushka and Annushka. It could happen that I confused
>two French plays there, one with Petrushka,
>Babushka and Annushka and "A. K.", but both of them
>existed and were very popular.
>
>Misha.

Where was Nabokov in twenties?
What was his occupation in twenties?
Had he any connections with theater?

AND, BTW, OTOH, 'xplain, pls, how from your comment 
follows *wrong*-ness of explanation. (Or why is *wrong* at all?)

LFTYR, SY,
	-igor

LFTYR == looking forward to your reply
SY == Sincerely Yours
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Solaris - the "freeway sequence"
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:10:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: golem.rabjab.8.718409423
Organization: ucsd
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu

>> rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu:

>>I just saw the video of Solaris, Tarkovsky's adaptation for the
>>screen of the Stanislaw Lem novel.

> shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu:

>This is the only Tarkovsky movie that I do not like because it completely
>distorts Lem's original work. 
>Lem was mad as hell at Tarkovsky for making that movie and would have
>definitely stopped the production if he could.

I always thought it would be neat to do a remake of Solaris using
all the latest in computer-generated special effects.  The imagery
in the novel just begs for it!  Tarkovsky's film version just barely
hints at the scenery and concentrates more on the story of the Kelvin's
"guest", and other unresolved personal issues.

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 17:51:43 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <BvI5AH.MqL@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
> ...
>I am not familiar with the definition of "fan-out", I would guess that you
>mean something like "amount". In any case, you take education to be what you
>feel it should be, however this is not the only way to look at education. As
>you guessed, I look at schools as a place where I can go to get what I need
>to get, or what my parents want me to get. (sorry for stupid "get")  In America,education system is not just that, government does step in to make sure that
>everyone will get a minimum so that personal stupidity will not prevent an
>individual from future opportunities.
>
>Now, let us have another test for how good is a given system. Let's take an
>individual with his goals and aspirations and put him through the tested system.
>Why can't statistical result of this experiment be considered to be performance
>indicator?
>
>By the way, one of the reasons why russian-jewish immigrants like america is
>that they had tried that experiment on themselves.
>
>---Garik.


Do not get me wrong, Garik. I agree that there are other metrics by which
US K12 education measures more favorably than that of xSU.
Those favorable metrics are:
    o Quality/amount of school lunches
    o Amount of money spent on schools
    o Number of computers per pupils
    o Number and diversity of books in school libraries
    o Teacher/pupil ratio
    etc etc

The only metric which fails the US system is that which measures
the ability of the system to mass-produce educated citizens (fan-out
you were asking for), which in the long run causes the country to slide
of the top nations list.

P.S. I missed you reply - hence, the delay.

Oleg V
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: frants@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Leonid Frants)
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Keywords: Russian students, "cookbook recipes."
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:02:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.135430.33221@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>In article <_j+prrb.oleg@netcom.com> oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep28.142827.17509@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>>>Kind of strange - at least 4 grammar errors in  one paragraph.  Should be 
>>>tough Ph.D.
>>
>>Grammar flames, like spelling flames, are a sign of a feeble mind and
>>blatant disregard for the establised USENET conventions.  They look even
>>worse when their author makes the same kinds of mistakes in his/her own 
>>article.
>

>2. Please, apply your posting to itself, and result of this application 
>to own mind.
>
>>Besides, those were typos, not simple grammar errors. 
>So what? Is it OK for Ph.D. in US? Or typos are OK for HS graduate in US?
>Explain, please - I know only education norms in Russia, where 
>typos were (grammar) errors.
>>-- 

Igor,

1. The basic fact is that here the contents of the message count
rather than the typos -  if you do not understand this fact you should not be
posting at all :). I, for one, do not care when others make mistakes
as long as I can understand what they are saying.

2. This is not the third grade of a soviet high school.

3. Making a point of someone's typos is a sign of a feeble mind no
matter what you say.

4. The education norms in Russia, as far as the spelling is concerned, suck.
Anyone who can justify getting a C grade instead of an A grade for
writing a brilliant university entrance composition on (... whatever topic
..) because of 2 or 3 spelling errors is an idiot by default.

5. Most editors have spell-checkers now. So avoiding spelling errors is
in not a sign of anything but knowing how to use these spell-checkers.

6. CHYA BY KOROVA MYCHALA....






>>Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
>
>Disclaimer: I never thought or told my English is error-free.

Leonid Frants.
From: smir+@CS.CMU.EDU (Yury Smirnov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:08:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BvLu5x.58v.1
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <BvK984.CA8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Garik
D'Curiosity) writes:
|> I have a question about oral exams in Russia. I heard from a lot of people 
|> that often it was not enough to have good knowledge of the material, but 
|> having a good relation with professor would be even more helpful.  Moreover,
|> bad relationship with prof. were also an obstacle in getting a good grade.
|> How widespread was influence of prof/student relationship on grades?
   
   Have you seen that bad relations helped to get something better than
   in case of good relations ?!(ritoric queston). This fact mainly concerns
   undergraduate girls, which are never sure that they are well prepared
   for an exam. Guys are usually more steadfast and assured. BTW, here in 
   the US. a bunch of undergraduate girls look as if they have just did 
   something terrible and are fearfully waiting for a punishment. In xSU 
   this happened with girls only twice a year, all the rest time they were
   quite content with an educational process.

	Ot sessii do sessii zhivut studentyi veselo,
        A sessiya vsego dva raza v god.
|> 
|> And another question:  Not everyone can take an oral exam, often for psychol.
|> reasons.  (In my HS a very bright guy could not take a written exam, so 
|> teachers examined him orally)  Hence, did russian school or university
|> ever went out to help these people by giving them a written exam.
|> 
   In my high school (Len State Univ) you could do everything :
   - having got C, you can try to retake an exam a week later in order to get B,
   - having got B, you can try to retake an exam a week later in order to get A,
   - having got A, you didn't need to do anything with this subject,
   - you can ask to get questions a day before,
   - you can ask to get questions a day after,
   - you can ask to take an exam orally,
   - you can ask to take an exam in a written way,
   - you can take several exams during a day,
   - after taking questions at an exam, you can tell that you'll come a week 
     later,
   - etc.    It was quite democratic !
   But, as showed student experience all this options never gave any advantage,
   and quite the opposite. If you were doing something like this, in order to get
   the same grade as in a ordinal exam you would need to meet slightly higher
   requirements.

    Yury.
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: American Education/Soviet Education
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:39:57 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1ai831INNl6n@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1992Oct02.134616.28692@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>>
>>There is only one God.
>
>Named? ....

Unnamed. Or you may use any name - names are referencies, not entities.
("As long as pointer is initialized, pointer's name is irrelevant").

>Yury
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Americans and movies: something's wrong
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 18:20:51 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.12 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <Bv7zML.HoE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(didinsky garry) writes:
> root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan) writes:
>
> >oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
> >: American public does not like depressing movies because it was not
> >: brought up on them and when it sees one, it tries to shield itself against
> >: it - quite a normal psychological reaction. Laugh it off is a good way of
> >: closing back doors towards one's consciousness.
> >:
> >: Oleg Vishnepolsky
> >:
>
> >Not many downbeat or depressing movies are made these days; see 'The
> >Player' for a satiric comment on this. But they still appear, and I was
> >certainly brought up on them. 'Easy Rider', 'Joe', 'They Shoot Horses,
> >Don't They?' come to mind. Earlier, there's film noir.
>
> >I have encountered the laughter reaction, of course, and I agree with Misha
> >that it's annoying. I change seats if I can.
>
> >--
> >Timothy.
>
> I am not sure what Oleg means when he says that american public is not
> brought up on depressing movies.  Are russians brought up on depressing
> movies? Are "17 mgnovenii vesnyi" or "Rozhdyenie revolutseei" depressing
> movies that Oleg was brought up on?  Or Oleg was more into "A zori zdes'
> tikhie"?  For your information, most germans do not watch nor like either
> Wim Wender nor Herzog, just like most russians do not watch nor understand
> Tarkovky.  In the same way, most Americans do not watch non-Hollywood-end
> movies, but there are number of them that an acquired taste for movies.
> As for American movies with depressive content, go to your local library
> and one of those movie review books. You will find that there are more of
> them than you will want to see.
>
> ---Garik.
>
> ps.  After you finish watching your depressive movie, watch some Woody Allen,
> he is more than depressive, he is great.  Woody Allen is my God! (Sorry,
> it is late, and I am losing it.)
>
> pss. Something depressive: Apocolypse Now (sp?). Since it just surfaced again.
>

Garik, I would venture a guess that you left the SU long time ago and
did not really go to movies forbidden under 16 years of age (you did
mention that you graduated from a hs here). Anyway, there have been
a lot of depressing (tyazhelyh) movies that you just can't remember.
Also, you probably do not remember how many movies without 'happy end'
were shown regularly on TV.
There have been made some depressing movies in Hollywood but
     1) They were made long time ago
     2) If made today they would not gather a lot of public.

As far as "A zori zdes' tikhiye" - that's a pretty good movie,
a lot better than what Hollywood feeds the public with nowadays - so
I resent your sarcasm, and that shows me that you do not know what you
are talking about.

Cordially...Oleg
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: education...
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:58:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep29.005812.15928
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <LEONID.92Sep28202905@estragon.uchicago.edu> leonid@estragon.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
>Mikhail Verbitsky writes:
>Oh fuck!.. ( No, he doesn't write that; it just means that for some reason 
>I can't qoute him; OK, let's try to avoid qouting )

>Mikhail, it's all
>correct except one thing: you keep telling "all the people in MY CLASS" 
>from one hand and "the COMMON educational level" from another... 

Sorry Leonid, I never did any sort of research on the
educational stuff. Everything I know is a firsthand
experience. Probably I should not pour it in guiltless
s.c.s so much :), but this is what I personally know.
I was asked by David Stein if Soviet education is
bad in humanities, and I tried to answer as good
as I could. In America, I have some experience
in studying and (not much) teaching at Harvard
and MIT which are supposed to be best schools
around. They are good schools, really. If their
students were as good as their schools the whole
thing would work a lot better. Anyway, I rather
like the way American education works. Two bad things
are disrespect to the knowledge in itself and
the existence of TV (in other words, consumer
culture, which is mutually exclusive with traditional
one). I am sure that Russian education is
no really better than American one, and a lot worse
with respect to the way American teachers are paid
and American schools are funded. 

Misha.
From: smolyd@gizmo.ECE.ORST.EDU (Dmitry Smolyansky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: E-mail in Kiev (question)
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:13:24 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Computer Engineering Dept, OSU

There is a very interesting discussion about the Internet (and others) E-mail
cites in CIS. But most mentioned ones are located in Moscow. Does anybody know any
E-mail locations in Kiev?

Please respond via E-mail; I'll post a summary.

Thanks,

Dmitry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Subject: Re: ``Moon's ass'' (long lasting saga...)
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:05:44 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <BvKxGv.Azr@max.physics.sunysb.edu> gene@max.physics.sunysb.edu writes:

 <... review of asses, darksides and backsides deleted ...>

> P.S. ASS is not a DARKSIDE also, because:
>  1) it is not a SIDE
>  2) one can insert a lightbulb inside and it will be s LIGHTEDCAVITY
> 
> Eugene N. Tyurin 

I really *love* the second argument. But just ENLIGHT me, pl-e-e-ease:

Q. How many Eugene N. Tyurin's does it take to screw a light bulb in an ass?

Cheers,

Greg