From: marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Sin to Heaven?  NO.
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:00:28 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Jul22.012538.5855@njitgw.njit.edu>, rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.224215.5691@iscsvax.uni.edu> marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>This conversation (or arguement) started when someone said, "Why not live a
>>life of sin and then tell God that you're sorry from your death bed."  The
>>person who wrote this shall be labelled "A", the first responder is "B", and I
>>will be called "C".  "D" is Mr. Rich's response.  ANY ADDITIONAL WRITING THAT
>>IS MINE FROM THIS ARTICLE ONLY WILL BE IN CAPS.
>>
>>B  And you know this from personal experience, I assume?
>> 
>>A  Personal experience, HA.   Get a life.
>>
>>C  Thanks, already got one!
>>
>>D  And what a life it is!
>> 
>>IT'S STILL A LIFE OF SIN AND DEATH BECAUSE YOU LACK RIGHTEOUSNESS GIVEN TO YOU
>>BY GOD THE FATHER THROUGH THE SON, JESUS CHRIST.
> 
> D  Okay, you bigot, you consider all the other faiths of the world (and there
> are many) to be living lives of sin and death regardless of their altruistic
> accomplishments.  You just prove that religious discrimination is still alive
> and well in this world and that is truly sad.  How long before all you
> christian holy soldiers take up arms and back your prejudice with force?  BTW,
> it seems your bigotry also includes Judaism, as they do not follow Christ.
> Hmmm.. Seems you can make a world of enemies with one foolish statement.

For one, looking outside my "religion", most other religions also consider
themselves the only true and good faith.  Why pin down us?  Is it because we
seem to be the zealous or out-there or annoying than other religions?  We
believe that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  Judaism doesn't
believe their own prophets when they said that the Messiah would come.  Sorry
for making enemies, but it is written that people will hate us because of
Christ.  Maybe thats very literal.

> 
>>
>>A  Just read any bible.
>>A  (well except one, the only one with the right answers)
>>
>>C  Read the Bible that God the Almighty inspired.
>> 	
>>D  OK, which one.   The Koran, Old Testament, New Testament, Dianetics,
>>D  what makes yours so special?  And don't give me that "One True God" bullshit.
>>D  Unless you can back it up with tangible proof, I don't want to hear it.
>> 
>>THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS OF THE BIBLE ARE GOD INSPIRED.
>>
>>THE KORAN WAS TOLD BY A MAN WHO COULD NOT WRITE, SO HE HAD TO HAVE SOMEONE
>>ELSE WRITE IT DOWN FOR HIM.  MANY THINGS CONFLICT WITH THE BIBLE AND IT HAS
>>BEEN SAID THAT THE MAN WHO WROTE THE KORAN ON PAPER WAS A DRUNKARD.
>>
>>DIANETICS IS THE BOOK OF INSTRUCTION FOR SCIENTOLOGY WHICH HAS GONE OUT AND
>>ATTACKED PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEFT THEIR "RELIGION" FOR CHRIST.  MUCH OF THEIR
>>TEACHINGS ARE NONSENSE AND FALSE.
>>
>>THE WORD OF GOD (THE BIBLE) SAYS THAT IT WAS WITH HIM WAITING TO BE SPOKEN IN
>>JOHN 1:1,2 "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE
>>WORD WAS GOD.  HE WAS WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING."  ALSO THE WORD SAYS THAT IT
>>WAS INSPIRED IN 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 "ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD,
>>AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION 
>>IN RIGHTEOUSNESS"
>>
> D  Because the Bible said it was inspired by god doesn't make it true.  Anyone
> can write a book and say it was inspired by god.  Hell, many criminals claim
> their unquestionably heinous acts as "inspired by god."  You can quote chapter
> and verse until you're blue in the face, it doesn't prove anything.  You're no
> more righteous than the followers of any religion.  Personally, I'm more prone
> to follow the beliefs of a book whose author can be found, not a book from
> ages past, translated numerous times with stuff lost each time, whose
> authorship is questionable.
> 

Did the criminals have miracles to back them up?  No.  Did they go against the
nature of God?  His will is to have His creation believe and follow Him, not to
kill people at random or whatever the crime was.

The disciples had Jesus with them and He did perform many miracles so that
people would believe that He was sent of God.  After he rose to His father's
side, He sent the Holy Spirit to the disciples and they also performed miracles
because of the faith that God gave them.  They had proof.  Miracles are still
performed to this date.  It's written that "If you have faith the size of a
mustard seed, you may tell a tree to plant itself in the sea and it will do
it."  People are still convinced and saved after seeing works like these.  Why
don't you search out these things and SEE for yourself.  Don't sit at home and
reason posibilities out of existance.  GO and check it out.

>>A  I don't claim to believe in sinning then repenting.
>>A  Why should I when I feel no need to ask for forgiveness for something that I
>>A  choose to do in the first place.
>>A  I was just pointing out some of the falicies in christianity
>>
>>C  Falicy?  You're just dead and lost.
>>
>>D  And you're as good as dead.  Pointing out fallicies in christianity is
>>D  like counting blades of grass.
>> 
>>I'M AS GOOD AS DEAD?  ARE YOU COMING AFTER ME OR SOMETHING?  POINTING OUT
>>FALLICIES IS NOT AS EASY AS COUNTING BLADES OF GRASS, YOU JUST DON'T CARE TO
>>BELIEVE SO YOU SPEAK UP AGAINST GOD'S PEOPLE AND ATTEPMT TO "TRIP" THEM IN
>>THEIR WALK WITH CHRIST.  YOU DON'T WANT OR CARE TO UNDERSTAND.  (DEAD AND LOST)
>>
> D No, idiot.  Violence for religious reasons is your territory.  I meant that if
> you follow all doctrine set forth in your beloved bible strictly, you might as
> well drop dead, for you will lead a life of ignorance.  Ignorance is bliss, 
> however.  As for my speaking up, remember where you are.  You're a christian in
> the lion's den, so to speak.

Sorry, I've been threatened before on the subject of God in a "lion's den" like
this newsgroup.  Didn't mean to make you sound violent.

> 
>>A  Any more stupid remarks from the stalls?
>>
>>C  Your heart is hardened.
>>
>>D  Yep, some more stupid remarks from the stalls.  Well, now that we've
>>D  got you here, crusader, tell us:  How does it feel to follow a slave religion?
>>D  christianity was founded by slaves for slaves and teaches the less is more
>>D  philosophy.  Consider that it is easier to pass a camel through the eye of a
>>D  needle than to get a rich man into heaven.  Now look at the money you're 
>>D  wasting sending your feeble message across the net.  Isn't that money better
>>D  spent on those less fortunate than you?  Look around your home and see all
>>D  the things you don't really need.  All the food and clothing that people would
>>D  give limbs for in the streets.  Think about that before you call me evil.
>> 
>>I AM FREE IN CHRIST.  FREE TO SPEAK THE WORD OF GOD OPENLY.   FREE TO LIVE A
>>LIFE WITH THE PROMISES OF MY CREATOR.  FREE TO FOLLOW THE GOD WHO SAVED ME FROM
>>SIN AND SINFUL NATURE.  TO BE FORGIVEN FROM SIN IS WHAT BEING FREE IS ALL
>>ABOUT.  WE WERE NEVER SLAVES.  EVEN IN THE MIDST OF ALL THE NON-BELIEVERS
>>ATTEMPTING TO HOLD BACK THE CHURCH OF GOD (HIS PEOPLE).  WE SHALL NEVER FALL TO
>>YOUR OPPRESSION.  DON'T TELL ME ABOUT THE MONEY SPENT HERE, FOR YOU SPEND THE
>>SAME MONEY.  HOW LONG WILL I HAVE THE CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH YOU?  WILL NOT THE
>>POOR ALWAYS BE WITH US?  BLESSED ARE THE POOR IN SPIRIT.  HOW LONG WILL THE
>>WICKED GO AGAINST GOD.  YOU ARE EITHER FOR OR AGAINST GOD.  HOW LONG WILL YOU
>>FIGHT AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT?
>>
> D You are free so long as you follow unquestioningly the tenets set forth in a
> book that is way out of date.  My point was that if you consider the motives of
> those that constructed the religion (questioning for a mere moment it's veracityI know that's hard for you) you can see why many of the christian beliefs are
> the way they are.  christianity appeals to those enduring hardship by reassuringthem that it's ok to have nothing, because you have god.  The pagans who
> dominate you will suffer in the afterlife, so it is ok to accept your lot in
> life.  Thus, christianity was designed as a religion to appeal to slaves.  You're free now, it's time to open your eyes and take charge of your own destiny.

What says that it's out of date?  Obviously our technology and customs have
changed, but people haven't.  We haven't developed much that's new in a
person's nature or thinking.  All of the morality taught in the Bible is still
the best examples to take.  (please don't point out random specifics that would
be out of context, look at it as a whole)  Not only the poor and downtrodden
come to know Christ.  Yes, it may be hard for a rich man to enter heaven, but
it can and does happen.  It's God that makes the impossible possible.


> D  Our oppression?  Look at who controls the airwaves.  I don't see any Satanic
> Cable Network (unless you consider MTV   :)  ), but your pablum pukers flood
> the airwaves.  I don't mind this tho, because I have the freedom to change
> the channel and watch something intellectual.  I don't recall an Unholy
> Satanic Empire spreading its philosophies thru force or coersion either.

Hmmm... Are we the only ones who care about peoples eternal souls?

> 
> D  Personally, I don't care how much money I spend here.  It is my money and
> I earned it.  I look forward to acquiring more money in the future.  Your
> bible calls this greed and a deadly sin.  I call it desire and a basic instinct
> that should be encouraged and not denied.  My point was that you should make
> sure you are following the tenets of your own religion before you condemn mine.

Well, I pray that God continues to meet you financial needs.  Maybe in the
midst of your prosperous life, you will share also with others.

> 
> D  I fight against bigotry and not your so-called holy spirit.  Tho I am
> anti-christian, these are my religious beliefs and I am intelligent enough
> to accept that the world is full of good people of all religions.  Thus, while
> I may argue doctrine endlessly, I see no problem with being friends with someone
> of a diametrically opposed religion.  I'm not on any crusade to eliminate
> christianity.  Hell, Satanism and christianity need each other.     

Good.  I'm glad you can think and reason.  We need more people in the world
that have that ability (it seems the world lacks thinking humans).  I disagree
that satanism and Christianity need each other.  There would be less people to
convince that Christ is the way if there were no satanist, and that would make
our job as ministers a lot easier.  I don't have many friends that aren't
Christians, but the ones that I do have that aren't Christians don't drag me
down from my faith.

>>
>>Feel free to write me about the material I wrote above.  Especially Raymond
>>Rich.
>>
>>Evan Marshall
>>marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
>>
>>Proverbs 4:2 "I give you sound learning,
>>                so do not forsake my teaching."
> 
> "It is far better to be feared than to be loved." ---  Machiavelli
> 
> 					Raymond H. Rich

How about reverently respected and loved, the way God wants to be. -- Evan

Evan Marshall
marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu

"They say that God is oh so tasteless,
        but they've never tasted Him.
 Taste and see that the Lord is good.
        Taste and see, He's so good for you."
                                --- Newsboys

Newsgroups: alt.satanism