HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Subject: Re: Many things - was women Vs men (ugh)
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:25:44 GMT

In article <memo.744592@cix.compulink.co.uk> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Look peggy - Read Ole Carlos again. The humble warrior bit. The thing
>that matters is the path with heart. Who knows whether it is better
>to touch infinity with your soul, or to hold your first child in
>your arms? Shamans have traditionally been loners, not family people.
>They also have a tradition of not willingly choosing the paths they
>find themselves on.
>
A point I having been meaning to bring up for some time now. Shamans in 
traditional societies tend to be the "exceptions" to the society. They exist
in part to regulate and also make exceptions to taboos in the society. They
also are those who deal with a lot of things that give them much 
responsibility because if they deal with them properly, then they are acting
as both a safety valve and a check on behavior in the society.  They tend
to be drawn from those who don't have a better niche elsewhere, and tend to
be odd little people.

As members of the society who sort of live half-exiled from that society,
they are entitled to respect by those who understand their function, may
be feared by others, may be laughed at by yet others. But they are not 
representative of that society, and the others should not either be judged 
by the behaviors of the Shamans, nor should the rest of the society start
acting like them.  In fact, this would be Harmful to the society. 

If you want to be a shaman, or a magician, or a priest, there's probably 
something wrong with you, in nearly all cases.  Of course, whoever is reading
this is the exception. -)  Even my love, the Bhoddisatva of Anti-Asceticism,
(pardon the sp), runs into trouble with this removal from society going 
hand in hand with being a holy person.  It is a paradox and a dilemma, and
is not going to be "resolved". You have to learn to live with the concept
that you are Not a normal member of society, neither are you going to 
convert society to an "enlightened" point of view.  This is sort of what 
Lao Tsu said, a lot. 

I do think there are workable coping methods for this, in order to allow 
the individual to "lead a normal life".  One of the biggest is to simply
modifty your concept of magick to being simply Living Life.  Soren 
Kierkegaard, in Fear and Trembling, talked about this a lot, with his 
various "Knights" and examination and transcendence.

This is just a few notes that struck me as I read Leo.  Thank you Leo. 
I just wanted to share them.  

				-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
				

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: tarot workshop with RJ Stewart
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:24:30 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK



We had another workshop on Halloween.  It was pretty good.  To summarize:

Ace cards -- four primary powers of the universe
             The idea comes from the Vita Merlini which states that
             out of nothing the 4 primary powers begin

      Fire (dragon) ace (earth), bird (air) and fish (water)

Mediation on moon, sun, star, Judgement, justice and wheel of fortune cards:

Start off with dark pool of water.  Look in it, lie down flat with the
water touching your nose.  See image of goddess see a strand which takes
you somewhere, meditate on it then open a door which brings you back.

If it was something in your  past: it's something you need to resolve

If it's in your future, it's somewhere you are going or maybe should go to.


Later he had a Halloween party.  Bob was fairly hammered and had
all eyes on the more attractive women there.  It was pretty funny to see.

later,

Chris
From: tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:33:50 GMT
Reply-To: tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Actually, I've had this feeling also; like something really nasty is going
to happen.  There is a book for sale called _1994_ which predicts the end of
the world in 1994.  I looked at it and dismissed it as a scam to make money.
But what's funny is that I have always been able to easily imagine the future,
not predict it (willingly i mean- every so often I do see some insignificant
event that happens within a minute or two), just imagine it.  For example, 
I could easily imagine myself in high school when I was in grammar school, or
graduating when I finally made it to high school.  But for some reason I
can't seem to imagine what my life will be like after I graduate from 
college.  I'm due to graduate in 1995.  I can't even imagine myself as 
graduating from this place.  If the world does end in '94 then that would 
explain it,  but I think I'm just under too much pressure, and can't think
straight.  Maybe during break I can go relax and go back to my study of the
psychic mind and things will clear up.
There is a book about the end of the world out which is more believable
called _5/5/2000_ which predicts a major disaster on that date based on
scientific data.  The theory is:  due to pollution, global warming, etc.
ice has been building up at the south pole.  This has been proven by 
scientists.  One scientist believes that by the year 2000 there will be
such a mass of ice in Antartica that the earth will be twisted off its axis
due to the gravity of the planets which will line up on that date.  The 
earth will not be pulled out of orbit, but instead will be shifted 90
degrees.  So the earth will rotate top to bottom instead of left to right.
This will cause imense destruction.  I think he said something about the 
center of gravity changing.  Anyway, he said the average wind speed will
be 400 mph and all the oceans will shift positions as the earth tries to
regain a normal weather pattern.  That's the theory, it's not mine, don't
blame (or flame) me.  It sounds reasonable to me, but I don't think it
will happen.  Other scientists are saying that there will not be enough
ice in the south pole to affect the earth in such a drastic way.
Anyway, after the election of Clinton, I've gotten that foreboding feeling
more than ever.  And now I'm really worried.

                                                 ->Spice
From: kendrick+@CMU.EDU (Kendrick Kerwin Chua)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:26:34 GMT
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>->    Actually, I believe--but I'm not sure--that the Mayan calender
>-> does not stop at 2012.  Instead I think that it starts into a new
>-> age at (or around) this time.  I vaguely remember hearing that
>-> every age is supposed to be marked by some extraordinary events.
>-> I think that this approaching one is supposed to bring forth a new
>-> race of human(oid)s and a mass re-awakening of magick.
> 
>According to Terrence McKenna (in Archaic Revival) the Mayan calendar
>does indeed indicate the end of an age in 2012.  McKenna has done some
>very suggestive work with fractal-based timelines plotting technological
>innovation, the rise and fall of civilizations, etc. and makes a case
>that they too seem to predict the "immanentization of the eschaton"
>circa 2012.

Is the end of whatever era we're in really coming, and what would the
effects be? We have this Mayan thing, we have the christian rapture, we
have Crowley's transition from the Age of Horus into the Age of Osiris,
we have the aquarian thing, etc.etc.etc. . .

Call me skeptical, but the European churches were all convinced back in
medieval times that the world was going to end on December 31, 999 AD
(or CE, if you prefer). Things have been weird lately for me mentally,
but they need to get much more commonplace and much more physically
apparent before I start announcing the second coming of Cthulhu. :)


Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu    or
kendrick+@CMU.EDU

Dark Lord see me to freedom.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: herb books
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:02:10 GMT

In article 92Nov10080144@bailey.cpac.washington.edu, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Nov10.050321.25998@samba.oit.unc.edu> shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu
> (Shava Nerad Averett) writes:
> 
> >                                                         No american cultures
> >   used the tobacco plant recreationally before europeans arrived here, to 
> >   the best of our knowledge (_Hallucinogens_ forget the author, a good book 
> >  on new world hallucinogenic use, UCLA Press, I think).  
> 
> the old mexicans did ('true history of the discovery and conquest of new 
> spain', bernal diaz del castillo, various editions). 
> 
> josh


and the american indian. 
as well as for ceremonial 

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter)
Subject: Re: The End of the World - Again
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 06:28:22 GMT

joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:


>can you say 'millennial panic' boys and girls?

>all of these predictions of 'the end of the world' are either
>misunderstood astronomical myths, or bullshit, or both. I am
>completely confident that world is not going to end anytime
>soon. I am reasonably confident that human civilization is
>not going to end anytime soon. Anyone at all is welcome to
>bet me $1000 against my $1000 that the world is going to end 
>on any given date you care to specify, be it 31 December 1999,
>23 December 2012, 28 October 1993 (in case the korean christians
>decide that they made a slight miscalculation and it's coming a
>year later) or whatever.

>yes that's right folks, even money on this one!

>josh

the actual date of the end of the world (as we know it) is of course july
5, 1998.
and it happens again on december 31, 2000.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: Of giving up and getting on..(was Women vs Men)
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:56:53 GMT

In article <BxIF7B.Koo@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>The point is, women may have been canonized, but it was done in 
>spite of their being women and they were exemplary at following 
>rules set up by men.

Joan of Arc and Hildegarde of Bingen being among the minority of exceptions.

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava@unc.edu
/*  all original materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing 
    significant to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned 
    subsidiary of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of NC DOT. */
From: tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Sorry but...
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:08:51 GMT
Reply-To: tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

If you've only been a Christian for 3 years now you may not have realized
this but the Christian church is _very_ closed-minded.  I'm an artist and
my favorite subject to paint is death, and I went to a Catholic high
school.  You can imagine the tension I caused.  Anyway, I've been a
Christian all my life and I have been experimenting on and off with magick
for a few years now.  It has not interfered with my religious beliefs at 
all.  In fact, it has enhanced them.  I have a more realistic understanding
of the world than most of the priests I've met.  The problem is that 
Christianity totally ignores the forces of nature.  It says simply that
nature was created for man, and that's all it says.  Don't be afraid to
exlore magick in whatever way you see fit, just don't discuss it with a
priest.  Anything that can't be explained by science is dismissed as evil,
and those who look into these things are labelled as blasphemous.  I 
always thought that in Catholic schools there should be a course in 
Satanism.  That would explore forces that Christianity refuses to deal with
and would probably strengthen the Christian beliefs.  Remember, the Church
is full of propaganda.  All they want is your belief, and a little bit of
money.  If you're not happy with what the Church has to offer as far as
magick goes, odds are you won't be, then feel free to explore it yourself.
Don't be intimidated by people who say that you're going to go to Hell
because you use your psychic powers.  I look at it this way, God gave me
my psychic powers and it's up to me to learn how to use them.

                                             ->Later.....Spice
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Women vs Men
Summary: cheap shot
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:01:17 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <JOSHUA.92Nov2110000@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>In article <lfamk8INNrn0@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>>   since the baby has been born I'm lucky to read one book a month and the
>>   list is growing much faster than that.
>
>this is the reality behind castanedan talk of holes in the aura, the
>left-hand tantrik avoidance of pregnancy, and much other denigration
>of parenthood by many magickal traditions. children are parasites: they
>suck about 15 - 20 years out of your life (more intensely, perhaps, to
>mothers than fathers). whatever you were doing before, stops, and
>the child becomes the center of your existence.

this is the reality behind castanedan talk of holes in the aura, the
left-hand tantrik avoidance of ambition, and much other denigration
of materialism by many magickal traditions. carreers are parasites: they
suck about 35 - 40 years out of your life (more intensely, perhaps, to
fathers than mothers). whatever you were doing before, stops, and
the job becomes the center of your existence.

Just a reality check for the folks who aren't trying to have a life...;)


-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava@unc.edu
/*  all original materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing 
    significant to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned 
    subsidiary of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of NC DOT. */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Childbirth
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:45:00 +0000

.. reading something from shava about childbirth being treated
pathologically, and her not liking it...


Again Shava, I accept your emotional stance. The reality (as I see
it) is that prior to obstetrics in hospitals, and the advent of
modern antibiotics and immunisation, the great majority of people
died really quite young.

I am not a medical historian, but I think that if you were to look at
statistics pf a 100 years ago or so, you would find that large
numbers of people died from raging bacterial infections following
physical trauma, or various epidemics (e.g. cholera etc) or food
poisoning. These might be thge cause ofd death of more than 50 % of
young children (i mean that 50% never made it to teenage).
Theronafter the greatest cause of death was childbirth.

This puts the medical profeesion in a dilemma. On the one hand there
is a growing realisation that the single most important factor in a
good comfortable delivery of the baby is the comfort (sic:-) and well
being of the mother. On the other hand, complications can kill mother
child or both. Hence the 'modern' trend to whip out the razor and the
curare, and avoid lawsuits :-(

Understand THEIR situation. Faced with a situation of even a 5%
chance of loss of life, falling to say <1% if you use the knife, and
faced with a potential career wrecking lawsuit if you don't follow
'accepted medical practice' what is the doctor going to do?

If you want a natural childbirth and are prepared to take the risk -
then I personally feel that you have every right to do so. But please
consider the position of any of the medical profession that you may
need to turn to for help.

Good luck.
From: mimir@stein.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Slopoke FTP Site
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:02:10 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society


 Does anyone know the e-mail address of the person in charge of the
slopoke ftp site for magick files and such? I've put a lot of files there
in the last two months and they are all still in the INCOMING directory. I
was going to upload all the files I had on the Thelemic Golden Dawn and
their practices, rites, and beliefs but I don't want to put them in the
INCOMING directory and have them sit for months in a mess.

Wassail,
Grendel

=============================================================================
|     O     |  Hammar I COMPUTER, Helga Ve Theta Ok Hald Vordh!             |
|    /|\    |                                                               |
|   O-O-O   |  "Praise the day in the evening,      mimir@u.washington.edu  |
|   |\|/|   |   a torch when it is burned,          Anthropology Undergrad  |
|   | O |   |   a sword when it is tried,           Admin for Troth-L       |
|   |/|\|   |   a maid when married,                System operator of      |
|   O-O-O   |   ice when crossed,                     The Sacred Grove BBS  |
|    \|/    |   ale when drunk."                      (206)634-1980 V.32    |
|     O     |                  - Havamal, verse 81                          |
=============================================================================
From: skye@brewich.hou.tx.us (Skye Stryder)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Trouble?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:36:47 CST
Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

> tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
> 
> : There is a book about the end of the world out which is more believable
> : called _5/5/2000_ which predicts a major disaster on that date based on
> : scientific data.  The theory is:  due to pollution, global warming, etc.
> : ice has been building up at the south pole.  This has been proven by 
> : scientists.  One scientist believes that by the year 2000 there will be
> 
> Sorry, if there is global warming, the ice would be melting, not building
> up. Junior high science will tell you that.
> 
> : such a mass of ice in Antartica that the earth will be twisted off its axis
> : due to the gravity of the planets which will line up on that date.  The 
> 
> I think "scientist" is too generous a term.
> 
> No chance if such a thing occurring. All the water on the earth comes to  
> less than 1/10000th of the mass of the planet. Even if you piled it all
> up in the worst possible place, it would not cause the slightest wobble
> in the rotation of the earth.
> 
> Also, even if all the planets did indeed line up perfectly, the moon
> and sun still will have thousands of times more effect on the earth
> than the aligned planets. 
> 
> : earth will not be pulled out of orbit, but instead will be shifted 90
> : degrees.  So the earth will rotate top to bottom instead of left to right.
> : This will cause imense destruction.  I think he said something about the 
> : center of gravity changing.  Anyway, he said the average wind speed will
> : be 400 mph and all the oceans will shift positions as the earth tries to
> : regain a normal weather pattern.  That's the theory, it's not mine, don't
> : blame (or flame) me.  It sounds reasonable to me, but I don't think it
> : will happen.  Other scientists are saying that there will not be enough
> : ice in the south pole to affect the earth in such a drastic way.
> : Anyway, after the election of Clinton, I've gotten that foreboding feeling
> : more than ever.  And now I'm really worried.
> 
> As I stated above, this person is not a scientist. The real scientists are
> right.
> 
> As you state, you should be far more worried about the politicians and
> religious fundamentalists on this planet than the physics of the universe.
> 
> Bill

 
This sounds an awful lot like some of Velikovsky's (pardon my spelling, 
I read his stuff in 7th grade) theories.  By the way...any geophysicists 
out there know why the earth's magnetic poles tend to switch polarity 
every so often? 

Skye


------------------
skye@brewich.hou.tx.us (Skye Stryder)
Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Sorry but...
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:14:37 GMT

In article 1dr62eINNkkg@uwm.edu, hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark Peterson) writes:
> From article <1992Nov10.025658.24545@primerd.prime.com>, by jasonp@sunbabe.Prime.COM (Jason Pascucci):
> > Actually, there is no christian church, per se. It depends
> > on which particular sect to which you belong. 
> > 
> > The Roman Catholic Church tends to frown on all kinds of
> > such excercises. For example, meditation on the Bible,
> > or a particular prayer, is okay, but meditation to 'blank
> > the mind' would be bad because of the chance of demonic posession. 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.  Get thee to Loyola's _Spiritual_Exercises_ and think again. ;-)
> 
> 
> hiho
> -- 
> mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
> dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        
> 
>      The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.


but it could also lead to divine possession. 
i think u were mislead in your interpretation.
meditation is not frowned upon. any meditation to bring inner peace and oneness with god is not frowned upon. 
u could be possessed per se' while meditating on the bible. 
the devil or satan or demonic entity could trick u into thinking u were divinely possessed. 
this is not a flame , just helping in enlightening the subject 

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: knightster+@CMU.EDU (Shawn Clayton Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Opinions needed on the future...
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:39:22 GMT
	<BxF2Mx.Lz2@cs.psu.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

on the subject of the Great War, I quote from Magick in Theory and Practice:

"When it becomes necessary to utter a Word [to initiate a New Aeon], the
whole Planet must be bathed in blood.  Before man is ready to accept the
Law of Thelema, the Great War must be fought."


Hmmm....


-shawn