From: mitton@dave.enet.dec.com (Dave Mitton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Other 1830 questions
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:49:15 GMT
Reply-To: mitton@dave.enet.dec.com (Dave Mitton)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Littleton MA


In article <1992Aug25.174909.11403@uwm.edu>, bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.games.board
>From: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III)
>Subject: Re: Other 1830 questions
>Reply-To: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu
>Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:49:09 GMT
>
>From article <1992Aug21.185925.22591@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, by mitton@dave.enet.dec.com (Dave Mitton):
>...
>This rule quote does not match the rules I have in front of me. The
>differences aren't really significant. 

>If Dave is reading the same rules as I have he is quoting severly out
>of context. If his rules really are different he is excused.  Are
>there different editions of the rules?

	No, there are not different editions.  I was quoting a couple sentences
past where you started.  You gave it better context.

>....
>We figured this rule was for when another corporation purchased a new train
>type that reduced the number of trains you were allowed to have, not that
>you could buy extras and turn in some trains after doing so.

	My news feed was down last week, so I haven't been able to get
though until now.
	Since my posting of about a week ago, I've moderated my opinion 
(below) too.  The wording of the above rule is clearly intended for that.

>> 
>> You can just push out your obsolete trains this way.  This rule leaves
>> it to the RR to decide what to return to the Bank.
>> 
>> Furthermore, as Alan Applebaum pointed out in his "Bed of Steel" General
>> article... this can be used to screw other players.  Combined with the rule
>> that says that a  Corp. must buy the cheapest Bank train availible, before
>> dipping into the President's cash. By causing a soon-to-be obsolete train to
>> show up in the Bank just before another cash-poor Corp needs to buy a train,
>> you can cause him to waste money on that train, and be in trouble again when it
>> quickly becomes retired.
>
>Actually I didn't even think there was a problem with buying extra trains
>and turning in ones you didn't want until I read his article. He mentioned
>that you shouldn't own two 3 trains because if you don't get the first 5 train
>you will eventually not be able to pay dividends if you don't own another
>corporation that will allow you to shuffle trains around. Since you can't buy
>another train once someone else gets a 5, you have to wait until your trains
>get flushed by someone else buying a 6.

	You are correct.  The BOS scheme is very dependent on the right
set of circumstances around the 4-5-6 train breaks.
	I have reread the section just before this discussion and as 
Bruno points out:

>From: bruno@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu (Bruno Wolff III)
>Subject: Re: Other 1830 questions
>Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:49:09 GMT
>
>From article <1992Aug21.185925.22591@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, by mitton@dave.enet.dec.com (Dave Mitton):
>> 
>> Furthermore, as Alan Applebaum pointed out in his "Bed of Steel" General
>> article... this can be used to screw other players.  Combined with the rule
>> that says that a  Corp. must buy the cheapest Bank train availible, before
>> dipping into the President's cash. By causing a soon-to-be obsolete train to
>> show up in the Bank just before another cash-poor Corp needs to buy a train,
>> you can cause him to waste money on that train, and be in trouble again when it
>> quickly becomes retired.

>Actually I didn't even think there was a problem with buying extra trains
>and turning in ones you didn't want until I read his article. He mentioned
>that you shouldn't own two 3 trains because if you don't get the first 5 train
>you will eventually not be able to pay dividends if you don't own another
>corporation that will allow you to shuffle trains around. Since you can't buy
>another train once someone else gets a 5, you have to wait until your trains
>get flushed by someone else buying a 6.

	Applebaum does talk about train limits.  He recommends against buying
two 3-Trains, as when 5-Trains break, the limit goes down to 2 trains, but
you cannot buy a 5 or 6-Train yourself until someone else buys a 6-train
finally killing the 3-trains.

	So, I retract my previous opinion.  This is another case where the
1830 rules would benefit by some more clarity in explicit statements of
what is not allowed.

	Sigh... Dave.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board