HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Its great to be on top
From: wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor)
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:36:51 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury

>Well it's fact that Kirwan and Tuigamala have been approached in the past and I
>agree Walter Little would make a good league player

Oh God, don't let them take Walter; the first really dangerous midfielder
we've had for Bog knows how long.

Incidentally, I would have thought Bunce would be a major target. I am still
a big fan of his, *but* , I detect the beginnings of an Innes-style approach
to his game; i.e. run full tilt at the oppo without passing, until tackled.
Of course, Bunce is nowhere near as bad at this as Innes was, no one could be!!
Still, the makings are there.

And that's what league scouts really love; hard runners who punch in blindly
without giving up the ball, combined with ferocious tackling (also Bunce-like).

If any of you know any league scouts, don't tell them this though !!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Bill Taylor              wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
           I drink to make other people intresting.   
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Oz coverage of AB tour
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:51:08 GMT
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia

In article <danielbt.712383811@marsh> danielbt@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Brett Daniel) writes:
>Anyone know which, if any games of the AB's tour to Sth Africa will be
>shown on Channel 10?

According to David Fordham last week.Ten will be covering the AB's tour
from August ? .This tour will include some provincial tour and ALL tests.

Hope this helps
allanc
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Oh wail; oh woe Again!
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:02:10 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Well, I don't think I've ever in my life seen a worse All Black performance.
We were demolished, thrashed. That Glenn Taylor, where did he come from, he
missed his first tackle, an absolute sitter. Admittedly he had only just come
on but hell, Duane Monkley would have dumped him no worries! Bring Back Buck
takes on new meaning after watching that game.
But, I have to say, Sydney were superb. The forwards, big and powerful. Kava
should be back in the Wallabies. The backs, fast and tackled well too. Eckhert
had a great game at halfback.
If we lose the third test, we'll be staring down the barrel against Natal I
tell you, we could be on a 4 game losing streak in the republic.

(I hate to say this, but the All Blacks last night played like Wales)

-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
			  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: danielbt@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Brett Daniel)
Subject: Oz coverage of AB tour
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:23:31 GMT

Anyone know which, if any games of the AB's tour to Sth Africa will be
shown on Channel 10?
--

Brett Daniel
School of Computing Science
Curtin University of Technology
Western Australia.
email: danielbt@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Subject: Re: What a massacre !
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:13:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.135358.6027@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:
|40 - 17   Oh my God !!!    Did the teams have the wrong uniforms on, or what ?
|
|If this sort of thing continues, I'll have to remove the map off my sig !
|
|This was indeed the worst performance of any AB team ever, both in the score
|book, and on the screen. I can't think how I managed to sit it right through
|to the end.
|

Truth is hard to swallow. The All Blacks did not play that badly.
Sydney was simply supeeeerb. The  All Black era has come to an end.
Their haka no longer frightens Australian players. In fact, it was
the All Blacks who must have been truly frightened when Australian
players (not only Wallabies) stare right into their eyes while they
perform their haka.

--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: NZ vs OZ and signs of things to come ?
From: david@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (David Eaves)
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:48:02 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Canterbury


After watching the second test between New Zealand and Australia I have
a couple of observations I'd like to make.

Was it only me, or did anyone else notice the number of times the
Australian backs seemed afraid to have a go at their man and instead
put a chip over the top to chase after ?  I was quite disapointed to
see the so called world champions resorting to kick and chase tactics
rather than running the ball.  All this says to me is that they don't
fancy themselves to be able to break the oppositions line of defense.
When I see Campese kicking for field position with only two defenders
to beat then I begin to wonder!

Perhaps we are beginning to see the real effects of the turnover of
possession rule.  With the possibilty of being caught and having the
ball tied up it seems you are better off putting the ball into space
and regaining possession by chasing or nailing the opposition with the
ball.  It is probably the sensible way to play to win, but to me is
not what rugby is all about.  If this is what we are going to see 
more of in the future then we might as well be watching soccer!!

Anyway I'd also like to say that although Australia have won the two
tests, the only place I see Australia being "better" than New Zealand
is in the tactics employed to win.  Not too convincing world champions
to me.  Lets just hope the All Blacks stick to running hard and show the
Aussies how it's done in the third test.

							Dave

=========================================================================
== David Eaves, Computer Science Department, University of Canterbury, ==
=========== New Zealand.  EMail: david@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz ============
=========================================================================
From: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au (Brendan Mahony)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Oh wail; oh woe !
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:51:35 GMT
Reply-To: brendan@cs.uq.oz.au

In <21JUL199208424503@vxcrna.cern.ch> bertram@vxcrna.cern.ch (BERTRAM,IAIN./PPE) writes:

>If you watched the replay Carozza got the ball just down before Timu managed to
>roll him over, I sid it was a great cover tackle but it wasn't quite good 
>enough.

Anyone else noticed that this tackle was actually illegally high,
started on top the shoulders and ended up in a half Nelson lock on the
throat. What with Loe's (at the very least) dangerous subsequent play,
there really was a good case for it being the first 10 point try in test
rugby.

BTW does anyone know what the value of a drop goal is under the new
rules? I had heard rumours that it might be reduced to 2 points, but
haven't been able to confirm one way or the other, since both Fox and Lygnah
missed the mark.

Also it is wonderful to see so many Kiwis making excuses to mend their
wounded pride. Get used to guys :-).

--
When soldiers form lines or hollow squares, you call it reason.
When wild geese in flight take the form of a letter V, you say instinct.
When the homogeneous atoms of a mineral arrange themselves into shapes
mathematically perfect you have nothing to say. You have not even invented a name to conceal your heroic unreason."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: imf@datamark.co.nz (Ian Franklin)
Subject: Re: All Ye of Little Faith
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:06:07 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <danielbt.712202124@marsh> danielbt@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Brett Daniel) writes:

[Good Comments Deleted]
>
>A comment on the new rule changes: The major tactic now seems to be to boot the
>ball up field, catching the opposing player outside his twentytwo, pinning him
>down and therefore winning the scrum feed.  I think this is a negative tactic
>which has done nothing to open up the flow of the game.  They should revert to
>the old rule of possession in an indeterminate maul => scrum feed.  Any coments?

I cant agree with you here. Kicking the ball up field and keeping it
in play adds to the action. When kicking to the Australian backs
anything could happen on the counter attack and clearing the ball
quickly from a ruck also adds to the open action of the game. The
forward game has changed from large heavy forward packs to strong
athletic ones that can run around the field getting second phase ball
to the backs.

>
>The sooner Rugby Union tosses aside the staid, snobby, wanky, upperclass notion
>of the purity of amateurism in sport and becomes fully professional, the better.
>

And I must agree with you here. These people who give up so much of
their talent and time should be rewarded.
-- 
Ian Franklin       | imf@datamark.co.nz | +64-4-233-8186 (work) |
Datamark Intl Ltd  |--------------------------------------------|
Wellington         | I drink to make other people intresting    |
New Zealand        |                    - George Jean Nathan    |
From: hist1261@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Bring back Buck
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:54:44 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul21.143843.5986@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.122634.9500@waikato.ac.nz>, hist1261@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>> I agree - we need sensitive guys like Buck so obviously in touch with the
>>  women's movement to lead our fine nation.  Trouble is he has only played
>> three club games since his return.  How about bringing back Pine Tree while
>> you're about - or George Nepia...
>> 
> 
> Seeing as I made the original comment in my summation of the second test it may
> be time for a little explanation here. I believe this current All Black side
> lacks discipline and leadership both on and off the field. Ever since Buck was
> dropped I've heard captain after captain (remember there have been a number of
> them for mid-week games) say they don't really have to do anything extra when
> captaining the All Blacks as every man knows his job. This is pure rubbish -
> the '87 All Blacks had great leadership from Brian Lochore (coach), David Kirk
> (captain) and Buck Shelford (pack leader). This continued in the form of Buck
> but since his demise both discipline and leadership have gone downhill. In the
> current All Black setup the lead must come from the team management who should
> come down strongly on any silly play and give full support to anything the
> captain has to say. For his part the captain can no longer be one of the boys
> and must be prepared to come down hard on anyone not doing his job.
> I fully realise that Buck playing again now is a nonsense (should have been at
> the last World Cup though) but this team really needs someone to supply
> discipline to cut out the errors and drive to continue to improve no matter
> what the game situation is. A good start would be to come down hard on Loe now.
> 
> Alan

I think the spectacle of last night only reinforces the above argument.  Why
was the out of form McDowell chosen to captain the side?  What a disgrace...

The issue of Loe's supposed indiscretion is a rather separate matter however.
Don't condemn a man on reputation alone, or on a subjective interpretation of
supposed video "evidence" (who killed JFK - have you seen the footage?).

Richard.
From: neil@neumann.une.edu.au (Neil Dunstan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: NZ vs OZ and signs of things to come ?
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:39:34 GMT
Reply-To: neil@leibniz.une.edu.au

From article <1992Jul21.194803.6000@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, by david@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (David Eaves):
> 
> Australian backs seemed afraid to have a go at their man and instead
> put a chip over the top to chase after ?  I was quite disapointed to
> see the so called world champions resorting to kick and chase tactics
          ^^^^^^^^^

Still hurts doesn't it.

On the subject of chip kicks. I've never seen Fox use the chip kick so
often either. I think both sides are so well drilled in defence that a
bit of variety is needed to create chances - or maybe its a consequence
of the new rules.

For the Fox bashers... The 3rd Test might well be Fox's last in Australia.
A great player that I will always associate with the AB's years of
dominance.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: NZRFU and Loe
From: R.D.Lynn@massey.ac.nz (R.D. Lynn)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 02:23:08 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

In article: <1992Jul22.022106.11284@cs.su.oz.au> (Restless Wanderer) writes:

>12pm 22 July 1992 ABC News.2BL(AM)

>The New Zealand Rugby Union today cleared Richard Loe of foul play
>in last Sundays test against Australia.The said that Loe had no case
>to answer and intend to let the matter rest.
>The ARU spokesman said,that if the NZRU have deemed this to be consistent
>with the spirit of the game then perhaps they should be looked at.


>My Say..

>Since the deciding body is and always will be,unless someone cites Loe
>in New Zealand, the purveyors of justice.They should be isolated from
>the team management/coaching staff.
>No one I've spoken to has any doubt(forget Hamish) that Loe deserved to be 
>sent home.If the NZRFU is to be seen as fair,then SOMEONE should cite
>him before the home National Body.

>As for my protest,I'll give the third test a miss IF loe is in the team.
>(so no-one cares,but the satisfaction will be worth it ).
>This goose will maime someone for life ,soon.Rugby has no credence anymore.!

>One disgruntled (ex)fan.

It seems unbelievable that Loe could get off yet again. How many more
incidents will it take before some action is taken?

Sooner or later we will see the opposition take the law into their own
hands. I can't see South African forwards lying down to take this rubbish. 
Burger Geldenhuys is probably working on his left hook right now!

Rob Lynn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: rbairos@cayley.waterloo.edu (Rob Bairos)
Subject: Televised Bledisloe cup matches in North America
Keywords: Canada
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:02:37 GMT

Does abyone here in North America know how to get a hold of international
rugby matches, such as the Bledisloe Cup?  Specificaly does anyone know
when any television stations and which ones, cable or satellite channels
will be televising test matches?  I beleive that this information will be of
interest to all North American readers of rec.sport.rugby so please post
any information rather than e-mail.

Thanx
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Its great to be on top
Date: 30 Jul 92 11:48:09 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1501@grivel.une.edu.au>, neil@neumann.une.edu.au (Neil Dunstan) writes:
> From article <1992Jul28.093401.6079@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, by cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty):
>> Well I reckon this is a misconception. The guys at the top of New Zealand rugby
>> do very nicely for themselves, thank you very much, and I doubt that too many
>> of them will be scrambling to play league. Take, for example, John Kirwan who
> 
> But an Auckland team will be a profit-making concern and those in charge
> will want the best players available. As for players switching to league
> ``in droves'' - this is not likely, nor is it the main concern. It only
> takes the poaching of one or two BEST players to make an enormous 
> difference to the national team. For example, look at the lose of Wales'
> Jonathon Davis. How well did the Welsh national team handle that? Have
> they won a game since? How about the AB's lose of Gallagher and Schuster
> (now playing for MY BELOVED Newcastle in the Winfield League Comp.) I
> think the AB backs are only now getting back to something like their
> strength when these two were playing.

I don't think Wales are really too good an example as they did lose players in
droves - probably because they weren't winning too many games even with
Jonathan Davies :-). The loss of Gallagher and Schuster were blows but really
only dented the All Black side. I mean after they went New Zealand still won
test series against Australia (in NZ 1990), France (in France), Scotland (1990)
and Argentina. Even now it's not as though the All Blacks are losing to all and
sundry - they've only been beaten by an extremely good Australian side. Other
players are also missing from when those two were playing - people like John
Drake, retired, David Kirk, retired, Craig Green, retired, Buck Shelford, upset
somebody :-) - so their loss, whilst substansial, did not ruin the All Black
side. There is depth in NZ rugby though it isn't always obvious - example how
many people are aware that 13 loose forwards pulled on the All Black jersey
during the just completed Australian tour.

> 
> As for who might get poached - there aren't too many current ABs that
> would be prime targets. Maybe Walter Little. An Auckland league team
> might have the view that a recent AB star would increase their home
> gate takings too.
> 

Well it's fact that Kirwan and Tuigamala have been approached in the past and I
agree Walter Little would make a good league player and may yet switch but
despite all the attentions of league scouts only three regular All Blacks have
signed over recent years - Gallagher, Schuster and Craig Innes (who must have
known his time was up after last year's World Cup). All the others, talented as
they are, have been fringe players who saw their way into the All Blacks well
and truly blocked. I don't see that changing too much.

Alan
From: rose@duncan.cs.utk.edu (John Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: new rules...
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:20:50 GMT
Reply-To: rose@duncan.cs.utk.edu (John Rose)
Followup-To: rose@cs.utk.edu
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu

i havent seen this posted and i think a lot of folks may be interested. could
somone posted a thorough list of the new rules? if this has already been done 
could i get a copy from someone? 


thanks
john
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: What a massacre !
From: awil2@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Andrew James        Willmott       )
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 09:47:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland

In <1992Jul24.081334.20276@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au> s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:

>Truth is hard to swallow. The All Blacks did not play that badly.
>Sydney was simply supeeeerb. The  All Black era has come to an end.
>Their haka no longer frightens Australian players. In fact, it was
>the All Blacks who must have been truly frightened when Australian
>players (not only Wallabies) stare right into their eyes while they
>perform their haka.

Oooh! I feel a shiver running up my spine just thinking about it! Gosh, those
Wallaby blokes are such tough jokers!

Andrew the intimidated.

-- 
+--- Andrew Willmott ------------- awil2@cs7.cs.aukuni.ac.nz ---+
|                                                               |
|   And all around the night sang out                           |
|   Like cockatoos                                  (R. Smith)  |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell)
Subject: It's not rugby but .....
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:31:45 GMT

Now that the Olympics are on for a few days, would it be possible for 
some of the rugby posters to report any successes by Kiwis and Aussies
in the Olympics? I know this group is rugby and league only but I don't
think NZ/Aust medals will be that accessible from the Olympic group.

Those of us from downunder who only see the Olympics through the eyes
of NBC would greatly appreciate any reports ......

cheers,

David B
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ccpcg@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (PHILIP GREENTREE VK2IW CCPCG@WOMBAT.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU)
Subject: It's great to be on top
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:59:18 GMT

In my recent post "It's great to be on top" I used the term
pakeha fifteen" and quite rightly, Bill Taylor of Cantab Uni
took me to task.  You're quite correct Bill, any Maori reader
would have every right to be up in arms.  In my defence, I was
intent on making the point that the ABs these days are NOT the
NZ first XV, they are actually the SOUTH PACIFIC REPRESENTA-
TIVE XV and lost sight of Maori distinction.

I do apologise to any Maori readers of this news group.  They
have a proud tradition in NZ Rugby, a tradition that goes back
to the great George Nepia and his predecessors.  The Maoris
are truly NZers, with that there is no argument.  

By the same token, even though it's only an academic question,
it would still be interesting to see how a Pakeha XV would
stand up without even Maori support.

Glad you liked the rest of the post Bill, now that I have
found this news group exists, I will probably become a regular
contributor.

I deliberately refrained from comment on the Richard Loe affair,
since it is enough that the NZRU has made a laughing stock of 
itself throughout the Rugby World.  A sure sign of a failing system
is when the leaders of that system pretend certain events haven't
happened since they believe they ARE the gods of the system, they 
set the rules and therefor, all others are wrong.

The Walabies won't be phased by R Loe & Co, they (Oz) have long
since realised that punchups etc detract from the task at hand, 
which is winning the game, and especially in the ABs case, grinding
them into the dust the same way the ABs did it to us for so many years.

I guess I have made my comment now! 

PS... What will videos of the SA v AB matches bring on the NZ
black market, since I hear that the TEN Network will be tele-
vising the internationals throughout Oz.  Should I buy up a
stock of blank tapes????

Rugby... the game they play in heaven

Philip Greentree -  University of Newcastle
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: All Blacks get thrashed 40-17 !!!!
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:38:02 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul23.081243.9548@waikato.ac.nz>, rel@waikato.ac.nz writes:
> Well NZs bad form continued last night at the Penrith Stadium where Sydney
> thrashes the All Blacks 40-17 YES you read that right.

I reckon we should find out who these guys were at Penrith last night and take
them to court. There must be a law against pretending to be the All Blacks.

Alan

ps - if you really need them :-) :-) :-).

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby