From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution
Subject: Re: [ACLU] A History of the Bill of Rights
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:09:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov11.211933.2639@pony.Ingres.COM>, garrett@Ingres.COM (It's not what you got, it's what you give) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.044456.7412@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)                     writes...
> >In article <1992Nov11.040004.22725@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (It's not what you got, it's what you give) writes:
> >> (By the way, it is
> >>>also inaccurate for the ACLU to claim they defend the Bill of
> >>>Rights: They defend the parts of it which their members find
> >>>politically comfortable and make specious arguments to ignore 
> >>>other parts...)

> >Actually, I was refering to their position on the Second Amendment:
> >The ACLU position paper on the subject contradicts historical facts
> >and ignores Supreme Court rulings, to conclude that it is ok for
> >them to ignore the subject.
> 
> Unfortunantly, I am unfamiliar with this position paper. Could you supply
> more information?

Here are excerpts from previous postings on the subject.  (Note:  The "I"
referred to in all subsequent text refers to the various original posters.)


	Here's ACLU #47, as adapted to the Southern
	California chapter of ACLU, circa 1989:

      We deplore the ghastly fact that in the life of this nation the use
   of handguns brings death to 60 men, women and children by accident--
   and 200 more by intent--every week.
      We concur with repeated rulings of every court that has ruled on
   the issue--including the U.S. Suprme Court--that the Constitution's
   Second Amendment provision for militia never has meant that all 
   individuals have a right to own all kinds of firearms.
      We urge passage of federal legislation--and meanwhile, in its absence,
   the partial remedy of state law--to prohibit, with few and narrowly drawn
   exceptions, the private ownership and possession of handguns, much the 
   way existing laws prohibit machine guns, grenades and cannons.
      We declare that Americans and their rights to life and liberty will
   face less danger in the presence of such laws and their enforcement
   than in the deadly, daily civilian shooting war around us now.
      The National ACLU gun control policy, adopted in 1967, calls for the
   reistration of firearms and the licensing of owners and dealers.  The 
   Union recommends the adoption of strong federal gun control legislation
   as a "necessary condition of fostering the atmosphere of open and fearless
   debate on which a free society rests."
      Both National ACLU and the Southern California affiliate base their
   policy provisions on long-standing interpretations of the Second Amendment
   by the U.S. Supreme Court, that the individual's right to keep and bear
   arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of "a well-regulated
   militia".

   (Adopted by Board of Directors in September 1976.  See national ACLU
   policy #47, "Gun Control".)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Ira Glasser, Executive Director of the ACLU, responded thusly on October 30,
1989 to an inquiry from Hal Berenson of Colorado Springs, Colorado, a former
ACLU supporter,

``We understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to guarantee to
the states the right to maintain state militias as a countervailing force
against an armed central government.

``Back then, there was no state repository for weapons or any standing state
militia, so in effect it was impossible to have a state militia unless people
were allowed to keep arms.

``But looked at in the contemporary context, we do not believe that the Second
Amendment, or the purpose for which it was intended, confers an unlimited
right upon individuals today to possess and use all manners of firearms,
including handguns, AK-47s, etc. That does not mean that the government can
constitutionally prohibit all weapons but it probably means that the
government can reasonably regulate and limit their use.

``The ACLU does not advocate gun control laws. But we do not oppose reasonable
regulations on Second Amendment grounds because we do not think the Second
Amendment bars such regulations.``

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The ACLU has sold its name list to HCI.

The ACLU has actively attacked the 2nd amendment by supporting a gun
ban in Illinois.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I recommend that all members of the ACLU write to their chapter and urge
the ACLU to rescind policy #47 if not to defend the Second Amendment.
You should cite the Yale Law Journal article "The Embarrassing Second
Amendment".  Also, cite the Ninth Amendment and the individual RKBA clauses
of nearly every state Constitution most recognizing the RKBA for self
defense.  Ask them to justify their distortion of the Second Amendment
and the Supreme Court's interpretation of it particularly as it relates
to "assault weapons:"

   The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates
   in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States,
   and the writings of approved commentators.  These show plainly enough
   that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting
   in concert for the common defense.  "A body of citizens enrolled for
   military discipline."  And further, that ordinarily when called for
   service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by
   themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.

      -- Supreme Court, United States v. Miller et al., 307 U.S. 174

Ask them about their claim that the ACLU "champions the rights of man
set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution..."

The national ACLU address is:
   American Civil Liberties Union
   22 E. 40th St.
   NY, NY  10016

In Southern California:
   ACLU Foundation of Southern California
   633 South Shatto Place
   LA, CA  90005
-- 

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