HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: xerox@cs.vu.nl (J. A. Durieux)
Subject: Alphabet independence (Was: Case sensitivity)
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:53:26 GMT

The issue of case (in)sensitivity is merely a special case (sic!) of
alphabet (in)dependence.  Some people want an alphabet with 26 characters,
while others want the double number.  Probably still others can't wait to
see their national characters being included.

For those who want case insensitivity, capital letters are just another
*font*.  Likewise, underlined or overstrike letters might be either other
characters or other fonts.

I can very well imagine having a rule that variables in italic are used for
e.g. differences or step sizes of their roman counterparts.

For historic reasons, our keyboards have a "capitalise" (= shift) key,
while most do not have an "italicise" or "underline" key, but that might
change when fonts become more common on computers (some program might
interpret the alt, control, meta, etc. keys as font changers).

Anyway, I think the case sensitivity discussion should be held in this
larger context: do we want to allow freedom in the definition of the
alphabet, and do we want to support fonts.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
From: pmathis@utdallas.edu (Paul J. Mathis)
Subject: What are good references on learning Scheme
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 07:15:45 GMT

What are some good books on Scheme?  I currently have only PC Scheme's
User's Guide and Reference Manual.  Thanks!

Chang Yoon
c/o pmathis@utdallas.edu

BTW:  I have had some Lisp experence, but not much.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
From: Alan@lcs.mit.EDU (Alan Bawden)
Subject: Case sensitivity
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:27:44 GMT

   Date: 7 Nov 92 01:25:25
   From: "Thomas M. Breuel" <tmb@arolla.idiap.ch>
   ...  On the other hand, writing the same symbol as "Foo" in one place
   and "foo" in another is just plain in bad taste....

I love it.  Earlier in this discussion there were people who wrote to say
that they -like- to write code such as

  (define (FACT n) (if (< n 2) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))

in order to emphasize the definitional occurrence.  So now you've labeled
this as "bad taste".  There is now no doubt that this discussion is going
nowhere fast.

				- Alan
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
Subject: Re: Case sensitivity
Date: 7 Nov 92 12:24:04 GMT
	<1992Nov3.145414.28199@csservices.Princeton.EDU>
	<1992Nov5.125818.29114@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au's message of 5 Nov 92 12:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.125818.29114@syacus.acus.oz.au> ian@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ian Joyner) writes:
   >I still don't understand, why some programmers (and program readers) should
   >have such difficulties remembering, that Foo and foo are not the same!
   >I already knew about this distinction as a kid, 1st grade in grade school :-)

   Firstly, they are the same. A first grade kid WILL tell you this.

Oh yes it is, oh not it isn't ... etc.  It is obvious people disagree
on this so could we please be spared these "statements of truth" (tm)

   Thirdly, the memory of the word foo is achieved by remembering the sound.

amongst other things.

   'Foo' and 'foo' are both remembered as the sound "FOO".

"bow" and "bough" both have the same sound, but that doesn't make them
the same word.


   > And again: there are ``natural'' languages, where case matters.  I
   > haven't met any German speaker, who confuses `Weg' and `weg'.  Is
   > this really that hard? 

   But the more I see this example in its different guises, the more I
   realise that it has little to do with the problem. It is a complication
   in a natural language. I cannot see that this justifies the introduction
   of the same complication into programming languges.

I think the opposite of this is that many people cannot see why
"somefunction" and "SOMEFUNCTION" (or even "SoMeFuNcIiOn") should be
considered the same.  Your statements such as "no appreciable benefit"
and "no way enhances the expressivness of a language" aren't likely to
change their minds. 

yours ambivalently,

bevan
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
Subject: Re: Location tags of primitive procedures
Date: 13 Nov 1992 15:25:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

pk@cs.tut.fi (Kellom{ki Pertti) writes:
| [...] I try to catch application of a primitive procedure that
|would cause a runtime error. This is done by having an alist of
|procedures and associated information about the parameters they
|accept, for example
|
|  ...
|  (,close-input-port (1 ,(assert 1 input-port?)))
|  (,close-output-port (1 ,(assert 1 output-port?)))
|
|Before a procedure is actually applied, it is first looked up in the
|alist.

Haven't we all had to do things like this?  Doesn't it seem silly
to spend our time rewriting the Scheme interpreter?  That's what this
amounts to.  I think we should find a way to solve this particular
problem by having a portable catch-error mechanism.

(P.S.  Your article arrived with "Distribution: comp" in the header
and that made my attempted reply bounce the first time.)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
From: mj@cs.brown.edu (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Total ordering on scheme objects (Was Re: case sensitivity)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:18:39 GMT

>> string->symbol is a concession to people with unusual needs. ...
>
>I disagree.  I use string->symbol as a way of defining a total ordering
>on symbols ....

How embarrassing.  I mean symbol->string, not string->symbol.

Sorry, and thanks to the kind netters for gently pointing out my mistake.

Mark

Mark Johnson
Cognitive Science, Box 1978
Brown University
From: tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas M. Breuel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme
Subject: Re: Case sensitivity
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:25:25
Organization: IDIAP (Institut Dalle Molle d'Intelligence Artificielle
	Perceptive)
	<1992Nov3.145414.28199@csservices.Princeton.EDU>
	<1992Nov5.125818.29114@syacus.acus.oz.au>
Reply-To: tmb@idiap.ch
NNTP-Posting-Host: arolla.idiap.ch
In-reply-to: ian@syacus.acus.oz.au's message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:58:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.125818.29114@syacus.acus.oz.au> ian@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ian Joyner) writes:

   [lots of arguments one way or the other about why case sensitivity
   is good or bad]

Case distinctions are useful if you have frequent name conflicts
between name spaces like variables and types. That's not the
case in Scheme. On the other hand, writing the same symbol
as "Foo" in one place and "foo" in another is just plain in
bad taste.

Maybe the best solution would be to prohibit mixed-case programs
in Scheme altogether. Either you write code in upper-case or in
lower-case, but not both.

					Thomas.


PS: someone who shall remain nameless writes:

   Thirdly, the memory of the word foo is achieved by remembering the sound.
   'Foo' and 'foo' are both remembered as the sound "FOO".

I love those "well-founded arguments" about programming languages
based on folk psychology.

Seriously, in languages that support case distinctions, case
distinctions, by convention, follow regular rules. I know of nobody
who has had serious cognitive problems with such distinctions.
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: cjw@moo.acns.nwu.edu (Christopher Wargaski)
Subject: Re: Need Help on RPC 
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:14:37 GMT

881244y@dragon.acadiau.ca (Choon Lin Yeo) writes:


>	I have recently tried running a short program on rpc. The client 
>program sends request to remote host for system time, and the server 
>routine (on the remote host) simply reads the system time and outputs it. 
>However, I kept getting the message "couldn't set time of day: not owner" 
>when the program was executed. Does anybody have any idea what is the cause? 
>And how I can solve it? Any advice is much appreciated. 

Make sure that the server is running it as the person who owns it on 
the client end.  That sounds like the problem.  Please let us know what
the final problem is.

cjw



>-- 
>			    _ _ 
>------------------------ooo--U--ooo-------------------------------
>* Acadia SUB Box 6732		Choon Lin, Yeo	
>* Wolfville, Nova Scotia 	e-mail: yeo.choon.lin@acadiau.ca
-- 
Christopher J. Wargaski 	<-or-> 	    Aspheric Artwork Sigh
		c-wargaski@nwu.edu; ACNS, DSS, RC
``The highest possible stage in moral culture is when we recognize
that we ought to control our thoughts.''  --Charles Darwin
From: greg@thirdi.uucp (Greg Holmberg)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Re: Client/Server - rpc
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:17:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Third Eye Software, Inc.

In article <1197@pivot-sts.sbi.com> ken@comanche.sbi.com (Ken Jones - Consultant) writes:
	We have been building distributed systems on Wall Street for 4
	years and abandonded RPC's as unreliable. In tests of heavily
	loaded systems, RPC's will fail to be delievered.  Therefore,
	we have switched to using TCP/IP connections with XDR streams
	on top.  In thus doing so we have developed a client/server
	commericial product with a simple API and client lib's for C
	and X-Windows programs.

I don't get it.  If you create your CLIENT with clnttcp_create(), then
RPC _IS_ TCP/IP connections with XDR streams on top.  How could
clnttcp_create be less reliable than your own version of the same
thing?

	The possible system wide overhead of a sustained TCP/IP
	connection far outweighs the benifits of reliable communication
	across subnets.

You must mean the benefits outweigh the overhead.  If you believed the
opposite, you wouldn't be using TCP/IP, right?

	We would urge any group NOT to use RPC's in developing
	distributed systems since they fail at the worst possible
	time.

You must be using clntudp_create and a UDP connection.  That would be
unreliable.
-- 
Greg Holmberg

Third Eye Software, Inc.                415/321-0967 Voice
750 Menlo Avenue, Suite 300             415/321-2066 Fax
From: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Re: TCP limitation in UNIX (was: Client/Server - rpc)
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:43:44 GMT
Reply-To: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com
Distribution: comp
Organization: BoGART To You, Buddy


In article <IMV.92Nov4125505@yosemite.inesc.pt>, imv@yosemite.inesc.pt (Idalina Videira) writes:
|> In a post in this thread Robert Cooper referred the problem of
|> running out of file descriptors when using TCP based communication.
|> 
|> I heard that in newer versions of UNIX the number of file descriptors
|> a proccess can use simultaneously is around a thousand but I don't
|> know in exactly what systems. Does someone have accurate information
|> on this?  

Sorry to waste bandwidth; mail keeps bouncing.  This number is
configurable (at least with Silicon Graphics' IRIX) via a text file (if
you're root).  Once you reconfigure a bootable kernel (on IRIX, with
the 'lboot' command), you reboot and the new value is in effect.
-- 
Jim Tomlinson    BoGART Project    Boeing Computer Services    Bellevue, WA
jdt@voodoo.boeing.com       ...uunet!bcstec!voodoo!jdt        (206)865-6578 
          "It's the end of the world as we know it; I feel fine."
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: glazo@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (LAZO,GERARD)
Subject: AS/400, Macs, PCs, VAX on direct line
Originator: usenet@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:21:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oklahoma - University Computing Services
Keywords: How do you put them together?  

As far as I'm concerned, our set up can really use some upgrading and
optimizing of the system.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Local:
IBM AS/400 with modem access
Several PCs with DayStar connection to Apple printers
Several Macs (Si and Classic) on AppleTalk
Apple LaserWriters on AppleTalk
Eight direct phone lines to VAX 100 miles away
No LAN between all above except for Macs on AppleTalk

Remote:
Access to VAX on Internet (U. Oklahaoma) via direct 9600bps lines (not node)

Question:
What's the best way to put these environments together?  It would be
nice if we could establish a file server here to make files available to
each of the environments.  What would be the best way to establish us as
a node so that we can use FTP rather than Kermit (slooow) to transfer files?
Would a token ring LAN setup be appropriate?  We may get a UNIX machine
(i.e Sun) to be on the LAN.  There are probably several possibilities,
but I would like some suggestions on where to start.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,

Gerard R. Lazo               /\     //====== glazo@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Plant Biology Division      // \   //            LAB: 405-221-7305
The S.R. Noble Foundation, Inc. \ //======           FAX: 405-221-7380
Ardmore, Oklahoma 73402   //     \/                      MSG: 405-223-5810
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: murad@mars.dgrc.doc.ca (Murad Mirza)
Subject: Need FAQ file & more...
Keywords: FAQ,client,server
Reply-To: murad@mars.dgrc.doc.ca
Organization: Communication Research Centre
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:13:24 GMT

Hi,

A friend of mine needs the FAQs file on the C/S systems.  He is starting a
project involving distributed databases, X based GUI apps., and transaction 
processing applications.  He also needs material on 'Distributed Systems Testing &
Test Architectures.'

Please post or you can email to me.  Thanks in advance.

Murad Mirza.
CRC/DOC

=======================================================================================
Std. High Tech. Disclaimer.

Opinions, assertions, assumptions, ideas ..... etc..., are mine in whole and soul.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:54:20 EST
From: Kayvon Z. Sadeghi <KSADEGH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: SQL and Client-server architecture

Hi out there

I was wondering why all the client/server systems use SQL as their manipulation
language. I don't recall seeing any client/server that works on OO or
hierarchy, for example. Is this because its easier to implement client/servers
in SQL or is there any especial reason.

I would appreciate if someone could give me some pointers on this.

thanks in advance
k1
---
------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Of Course,  I Could Be Wrong !!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kayvon Sadeghi                    k.sadeghi@ieee.org
Voice:202/244-0789
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: goldstn@arrinext.uta.edu (David Goldstein)
Subject: wanted: product info for mac, pc, mainframe connection to IP, etc.
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:19:04 GMT

Hi!

I am looking for price/vendor/service information on products will provide me
TCP/IP, UDP/IP, rpc, SLIP, etc. access to internet.  IF there is 
sufficient interest, I will collate my replies and post.

Thank you very much!

David Goldstein
Newsgroups: comp.client-server,comp.unix.large
From: hschadha@eos.ncsu.edu 
Subject: Re: Upper bounds of TCP & server processes in Unix
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:21:38 GMT

In article <Bx7JGy.6BJ@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, eric@cathaus.utcs.utoronto.ca (Eric M. Carroll) writes:

|> Has anyone tried to drive this class of machine hard in a
|> "connection-oriented" client/server relationship? 

I had a tough time once last year (being then a novice in the world of
UNIX 4.3 BSD sockets) trying to figure out why my distributed matrix
multiplication program hung up for big problems (with higher number of
non-blocking calls to remote servers). Experimenting with different sizes
of matrices (and blocks), I found that the problem arose after about
fifty client-server stream (connection-oriented) connections.

The problem was in my leaving the sockets open, even after the client had
successfully demanded the result. Yes, it was the wrong way to look for 
errors. But .......

I was using TCP/IP on the DEC 2100s here.

-- 
 Harpreet S. Chadha           
 Graduate Student
 Civil Engineering, NCSU
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: achel@ctp.com (Alex Chelminsky)
Subject: Novell client code
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:30:08 GMT

I am currently implementing a client server set of routines where
the client code resides on the PC. I am using the Novell LAN
Workplace for DOS library. Has anybody who has worked with it
ever used the asychronous reads/writes. Do you have any sample code?

I would really appreciate any leads as to where to get more info.

Thanks,

Alex Chelminsky
-- 
 +     /\/\     Alex Chelminsky  (achel@ctp.com)                             +
 |    /-/  \    CTP, Inc.					             |	
 |    \--/ /    304 Vassar Street                                            |
 +     \/\/     Cambridge, MA 02139                                          +
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: 881244y@dragon.acadiau.ca (Choon Lin Yeo)
Subject: Need Help on RPC 
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:56:12 GMT

Hi all, 
	I have recently tried running a short program on rpc. The client 
program sends request to remote host for system time, and the server 
routine (on the remote host) simply reads the system time and outputs it. 
However, I kept getting the message "couldn't set time of day: not owner" 
when the program was executed. Does anybody have any idea what is the cause? 
And how I can solve it? Any advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks. 


-- 
			    _ _ 
------------------------ooo--U--ooo-------------------------------
* Acadia SUB Box 6732		Choon Lin, Yeo	
* Wolfville, Nova Scotia 	e-mail: yeo.choon.lin@acadiau.ca
From: arzt@dccs.upenn.edu (Noam H. Arzt)
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
Subject: Re: Looking for document management system
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:35:12 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.131601.8765@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>  
shn@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (steven.h.nurenberg) writes:
> Our organization has about 200 people who among other tasks
> produce documents and talks.  We are looking for a software
> package that will allow us to better manage this process.
> The package should work in a client/server environment.  The
> server will be Unix based.  Clients can be either PCs or
> X (workstations or terminals).  It must support multiple

We've been very impressed by the Excalibur imaging system. It runs off  
DEC/Ulgtrix now, and other Unix platforms shortly, and supports X, PC and  
Mac clients with NeXTstep support expected soon.

--
Mr. Noam Arzt                            215/898-3029 (voice)
Director, Special Projects               215/898-9348 (FAX)
University of Pennsylvania               arzt@dccs.upenn.edu
Data Communications & Computing Services (NeXTmail is OK)  
Suite 221A, 3401 Walnut Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104
Newsgroups: comp.client-server,comp.unix.large
From: parson@coulomb.pcc.oz.au (Brenda Parsons - x2403)
Subject: Re: Upper bounds of TCP & server processes in Unix
Organization: Prospect Electricity, Sydney
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 20:21:57 GMT

In article <Bx7JGy.6BJ@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> eric@cathaus.utcs.utoronto.ca (Eric M. Carroll) writes:
>
>An issue that I have seen kicked around briefly in these groups, and
>now has arisen locally, is a question about the upper limits in Unix
>for supporting large volumes of TCP connections and server processes.

< STUFF DELETED >

>Has anyone tried to drive this class of machine hard in a
>"connection-oriented" client/server relationship? Is there any relavent
>performance analysis literature in this area? Or does anyone have any
>fundamental insight into this problem based on their knowledge of
>Unix?  Any comments on this topic would be welcome. If there are
>vendors that have specifically addressed these issues in their kernel
>implementation, I would like to hear about it.
>

We too would like to explore this field.  Has anyone out there
written any 'client/server' testing software?

This would be useful in determining where the limits lie for each
system and the gains and/or losses achieved from kernel tweaking.

Let's here from all of you LARGE client/server sites out there!

-brenda
-- 
% Brenda Parsons                  
% Currently at Prospect Electricity
% 10 Smith Street, Parramatta 2150, Australia
% +61 2 635 0300              e-mail:   parson@coulomb.pcc.oz.au        
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: umwan010@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nga T A Wan)
Subject: Sharing a PC's hard drive over modems
Originator: umwan010@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:49:58 GMT

	I want to have a partition of my PC's hard drive acting as a
network drive on another PC connected through modems.

	Here are the criteria for such a system:

(1) Machines & Operating Systems

	My machine is an IBM 286 running DOS 4.0.  The other machine can
be anything between IBM 8086 running DOS 3.3 & IBM 486 running DOS 5.0.

(2) Hardware Requirements

	I desire software solution only.  ie., the only hardware desirable
is modems.

(3) Security of minimal form suching as asking for a password is desirable.

(4) If possible, I want to work on my machine while some one is using my hard
drive (I know this probably means my machine has to use a multitasking
Operating System such as OS/2).

	Please give me some advices through e-mail or posting to this group.

	Thanks in advance.

======================================================================
WAN, Nga Ting A.			internet address:
Department of Computer Engineering	umwan010@ccu.umanitoba.ca
University of Manitoba, Canada R3T-2X7
======================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.client-server
From: 881244y@dragon.acadiau.ca (Choon Lin Yeo)
Subject: Re: Need Help on RPC 
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:56:33 GMT

cjw@moo.acns.nwu.edu (Christopher Wargaski) writes:

>881244y@dragon.acadiau.ca (Choon Lin Yeo) writes:


>>	I have recently tried running a short program on rpc. The client 
>>program sends request to remote host for system time, and the server 
>>routine (on the remote host) simply reads the system time and outputs it. 
>>However, I kept getting the message "couldn't set time of day: not owner" 
>>when the program was executed. Does anybody have any idea what is the cause? 
>>And how I can solve it? Any advice is much appreciated. 

>Make sure that the server is running it as the person who owns it on 
>the client end.  That sounds like the problem.  Please let us know what
>the final problem is.

>cjw

The problem has been solved by renaming the client program. It used to be
called "rdate" and the host site seems to have interpreted it as a 
time set command. 

yeo

>>-- 
>>			    _ _ 
>>------------------------ooo--U--ooo-------------------------------
>>* Acadia SUB Box 6732		Choon Lin, Yeo	
>>* Wolfville, Nova Scotia 	e-mail: yeo.choon.lin@acadiau.ca
>-- 
>Christopher J. Wargaski 	<-or-> 	    Aspheric Artwork Sigh
>		c-wargaski@nwu.edu; ACNS, DSS, RC
>``The highest possible stage in moral culture is when we recognize
>that we ought to control our thoughts.''  --Charles Darwin
-- 
			    _ _ 
------------------------ooo--U--ooo-------------------------------
* Acadia SUB Box 6732		Choon Lin, Yeo	
* Wolfville, Nova Scotia 	e-mail: yeo.choon.lin@acadiau.ca
Newsgroups: comp.client-server