HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Wanted: Essays/etc. on se
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:35:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 

R> Could anyone please tell me where I could find/get essays/articles/pappers
 > on saxism in cyberpunk?  I have a feminist friend who always calls me a sexi
 > pig because I happened to have read a few cyberpunk books.  I have only read
 > Gibson's works so I don't have enough expirence to dis/agre with my friend. 
 > if any one has a file to email/ a ftp site name / or just wants to do a quik
 > up, I'd really apreciate it!
 
Good luck.  "Sexist: is a very difficult label to overcome.  Sort of a more
general version of "Racist".

Does your friend have a single clue about the nature of c-punk?  Does/has
(s)he read cp extensively?  Seems to me inequality is a central theme of 
some CP, but that may just be a personal impression.  But the ineqality 
isn't about sex, it's about everything.  Most notably power, IMNSHO.

Probably should clip the line with your friend when that subject comes up.

In my experience, it's been a losing battle.  Especially if you happen to
be male.

Feel free to e-mail me privately to discuss this further.  I really don't 
want to spread a lot of this around this news group (Follow the thread on
ROBO-COPULATION) for some fun quips in this vein.

Mykel


 -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: Me hav'em heap trouble. - Tonto the programmer
               
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: dggoldst@quads.uchicago.edu (daniel gray goldstein)
Subject: Re: Unicorn scene in Bladerunner
Reply-To: dggoldst@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:51:17 GMT

Decker is a replicant!

Accept this and go in peace.

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:37:25 GMT

In <BxH6pH.35p@cda.mrs.umn.edu> carlsoje@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Joel E. Carlson 1625773) writes:
>Let's ignore the established church and look at the character of jesus.
>He talked about love, yet he himself was incapable of love.  He hated
>mankind and gave us 2000 years of terminal-guilt.  He hated knowledge
>(his attacks were against the learned classes).  He preached "love thy
>neighbor," but in reality it was more likely "fear thy neighbor," "hate
>thy body," "hate all that is noble."  Jesus was said to have love for
>all mankind, agape.  Which in reality means nothing; because love only
>has value if its cherished and shared amongst equals.  Anything else is
>just pity.

Please try to seperate traditional church teachings of what Christ
taught from what it is likely that he actually taught (if you bother
to read the New Testament, and even that is suspect).
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
   The city calls to me...it cries to me of its need.  And as I approach it,
     antennae twitching in anticipation, I see the city for what it is....
  A big place with lots of buildings, and lots of rooftops to jump around on.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:51:42 EST
From: <BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer dream-cast and soundtrack

not bad, i'd pay $100 for a copy but not to see it though.
Glad to see Ministry on the soundtrack, did you see Freejack?  They were in
that as backround music on the street in one of the scenes.  Anyway, excellent
cast and soundtrack!
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5607 alt.industrial:663
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:47:46 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

gallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Geoff Allen) writes:
> 
> Just dawned on me - you people are some of the most open-minded I 
> know when it comes to technological issues/ implications on 
> society, but how come there are so few women participating in the 
> Industrial and/or Cyberpunk movements? Is there something 
> inherently sexist about Cp that I'm just missing? 

dunno. but i'd be willing to bet it's the same reason that only 1 in
10 students in my math and CS courses are female.

jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data  `,`
`,`  is Life -- The Player's Litany, from _The Long Run_ by D.K. Moran  `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: FAQ Request
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:06:26 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

Could someone please email me the most recent FAQ or tell me we
where to ftp it from.  Thanks.
(P.s.- The only reason I'm posting this is that I really need the Faq
for a prog
project)
-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry                              I live in a place that has no sidewalks

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5487 rec.music.industrial:13021 alt.industrial:584
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,rec.music.industrial,alt.industrial
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:46:46 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik) writes:
> 
> The sexism of the hip young man of to-day isn't as blatant, but it 
> *is* in our language, and it may take a very very long time before 
> it can be eradicated.

waitjustagoddarnminnit. language is nothing more than a system of
symbols. the only meanings are the ones attached to the sounds by
the listener and the speaker. language by itself cannot be sexist.
if no sexism is present in the mind of the speaker then any
perceived by the listener is -their- responsibility. sometimes the
misunderstanding is genuine. (take the term "wench" for example...)

however, there are some people who insist on finding sexism in
every little statement, and using their interpretation of the 
semantics to accuse all "hip young men" of sexism. it is those sorts 
of uninformed generalizations that thinking young men and women should
reject. if something offends you take time to find out if you were
meant to be offended before wasting your time and energy.

at any rate, "Paula's" article was indeed complete & utter flamebait.
too bad there are -real- people who believe that garbage.

jason

--
me
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: Terry_Palfrey@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey)
Subject: Re: alt.cyberpunk and the jesus post
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:43:45 GMT

The consensus of these white male techno freaks on the bleak world view that
they had come to discuss was that they didn't want to live there but
expressed an open attraction for the toys of that environment.

Terry_Palfrey@mindlink.bc.ca     or     UGS 604-590-1147 "The Hacker Game"


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: v067rcyf@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (AARDVARK)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:33:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <ZENNARO.92Nov9141449@papegoje.iesd.auc.dk>, zennaro@iesd.auc.dk (Christina Zennaro) writes...
>-Sgreever wrote:
>If we each followed the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have
>them do unto you", 
> 
>there would be no problems in society.AA
> 
>I do not think that my last lover would have approved that. I think
>she wanted it to be: " Do not onto others as they have not asked you to
>do."
> 
>Christina
> 
>--
> ________     
> \      /   Christina Zennaro               |zennaro@iesd.auc.dk
>  \    /    Dept of Math and Comp Science   |
>   \  /     University of Aalborg           |Frederik Bajersvej 7
>    \/      Denmark                         |DK-9220 Aalborg S0
> 
>"Call me straight and i'll sue."
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   i think i like that
 and to think, a friend just called me a breeder...

                        i revise my last post...

"Do unto others as they have done unto you"

                        unless they haven't done anything
                        in which case you just leave them
                        the hell alone.....

          ------------------aardvark

"there is a lot at Steak"
                                         as you can see,
                                         i have no sig file
                                         i am inferior
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 18:04:03 -0500 
From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: neuromancer the movie

Yeah, that girl from "Booker" (and also occaisionally on Fox's "Alien
Nation") would be great!  I'd pictured Molly being like her, 'cept maybe
with a bit longer hair.  But she's got the right attitude.  

Chris

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: jwells@netcom.com (Jason Paul Wells)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:45:29 GMT

* Perhaps you might want to post things like that on some sort
* of religious newsgroup. It will lessen the amount of flames
* you get! =)

-- 
 ______________________________________________________________
| jwells@netcom.netcom.com     |"Citizens of the Planet Earth, |
| wells@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu | we bring you greetings...and  |
| jaywells@aol.com             | we come in peace."    ---John |
|______________________________|_______________________________|
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.graphics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
From: ploof@griffin (Scott B Ploof)
Subject: Legacy Magazine
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:44:19 GMT

ntroducing a new concept in magazines:

             
                                 L E G A C Y

                               M A G A Z I N E
                                           
                     (Visual E-Magazine for the Ms-Dos)

   More and more emphasis is being placed on the visual side of computing,
more so every day.  Legacy Magazine will be the first in a (hopefully) new 
line of e-magazines dedicated to the graphic side of the computing industry.

   Legacy will be a completely freeware magazine, showcasing the best art,
while still holding a very wide appeal.

   However, we need YOU'RE help.  Legacy will have a very wide distribution
through the many FTP sites available, so you're artwork will have a very
large viewing audience.


   What we need are the following:

   VGA art (320x200)....(we are working on the code for SVGA and
                                  640x480....)

   Ansi Art...ansi art of any dimension.

   Loaders under 40k.

   Articles pertaining to computer art, history thereof.  Also any articles
      related to the computer industry as a whole will be graciously
      accepted.

   Artwork can be of anything (except the very few conditions listed below),
from bbs ads, to scanned art work done by hand, to visually ambitious  
graphics from other sources.

   We have a target date of ONE MONTH.  Legacy WILL BE put up at that time.
The Legacy Staff has submitted a few items, so the magazine will be put
up no matter the turn out.

   This will NOT be another lame "magazine" that is just a bunching of
files that can be individually viewed.  It will be a full magazine with
a very unique and visual menuing system.

  All submissions WILL go into the magazine.  However conditions do apply.
We will NOT accept any pornographic scans (such as Hustler scans and so
forth) or articles (how Suzy got it at college for example).

  If art submitted is from a game or other source, credit will need to be
supplied so credit can be given where it is due.


         PLEASE help us in making the best magazine possible.


   I can be contacted, and submissions can be sent to:  PLOOF@UVM.EDU.
                 (all popular graphic formats accepted)
                               
                               Scott Ploof
                           (Legacy Cofounder)
                                                              

Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5717 alt.industrial:720 alt.sex:35989 alt.sex.bondage:21773
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Ye Golden Rule
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:10:40 GMT
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Episcopal Church Foundation at UIUC

malloy@crash.cts.com (Sean Malloy) writes:
|morpheus@entropy.mcds.com (morpheus) writes:
|>Stuart Finkelstein <sf20+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|>> How about this? (Although its rather noncommittal...)
|>> "Do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you."
|>How about just "Do as thou wilt."?    ;-)
|If you're going to use that quote, don't grab part of it out of context,
|use the whole thing:

|  "An it harm none, do what thou wilt be the whole of the law."

Or, for a variation on a theme:

Bide the Wiccan law ye must
  In perfect love, in perfect trust
Eight wods do the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
  An it harm none, do what ye will.
What ye send forth comes back to ye,
  So ever mind the Rule of Three.
Follow this with mind and heart,
  And merry we meet, and merry we part.


(Thirty bonus points are yours if you do not know me personally, and you
 can find the hidden irony in this post. ;)
--
Bigotry is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado and Tampa.

Michael Adams (StarOwl@uiuc.edu, wi.4962@n7kbt.rain.com)	
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Subject: Re: Unicorn scene in Bladerunner
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 253-1481 
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 18:23:19 GMT

In article <509.2AF42825@mechanic.Fidonet.org> Denise.Turner@f160.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Denise Turner) writes:
>The owland the cat are often related in mythology, can'trecall the exact relation, but i'll post it if i can find it anywhere. Don't know if it relates to those movies or not, just a thought.
>
Well, to try to quickly run through the relationship without any source 
material at hand...

Back in pre-history sometime the owl was associated with various and sundry
birth and death Goddess figures such as Hecate in the Greek and the Morrigan
in Celtic mythology among others.  As such, the owl is associated with
wisdom, like the wise old hag or crone figures...age and magic equal wisdom.
However, the crone is also a symbol of death, including the fear of dying etc.
etc.  The owl is also a symbol of this aspect, an animal which can see and
hunts and kills at night...a frightening symbol like the cat.

Much of our "witch" symbology seems to come from these Goddess of Death (and
birth, and rebirth) figures.  The tadpole (associating frogs with witches) is
a symbol of birth with its resemblance to a fetus.  Cats are traditional witches
familiars as are owls (also dogs, particularly black dogs, but that's another
topic :).  Therefore, the owl is not necessarily a positive characteristic.

In the middle ages the owl was considered a very negative symbol.  In paintings
from this time period, an owl usually represents folly not wisdom, particularly
folly that includes death and eternal punishment ...i.e. the folly of not 
being a good Christian.  A painting representing a "fool" or a person engaged
in sin would often include an owl nearby.  It is possible that this association
led the the "fools cap" with a feather in it, representing the owl.  It is
also possible that this owl represents particularly the folly of being "pagan"
similarly to the depiction of certain hats intended to represent cultures 
other than Christian.

I'm not sure how all this would relate to the Bladerunner scene, but it seems
possible that like the cat, the owl is not intended to represent wisdom in a
"good" sense, but is intended to represent the wisdom of death...it would be
the ultimate parady to have the "familiar" of the witch (male witch in this
case) be already dead and reborn (a replicant)...

Anyway, I don't really know, but there is another possible layer of            
interpretation there.  Would depend, I suppose, on how familiar PKD was with
mythology.

				Laura Mollett
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: SMCMILLN@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Mondo's new book..
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:23:44 GMT

In article <49k5TB1w165w@pension.uucp>
rserling@pension.uucp (Rod Serling) writes:
 
>
>Can someone post the ISBN# for the Mondo's guide to the new edge(or
>whatever the exact name is).   advTHANKSance.
Can't give you the ISBN, but the full title is "Mondo 2000: A User's
Guide to the New Edge".
>_|_  Internet: rserling@pension.UUCP_|_   This post was the result of _|_
>_|_  At&TNet : 801 374 5788         _|_   markov chaining.            _|_
>_|_  Not witty/clever, but definately thought provoking: "I have      _|_
      forebodings for my country in the distant future, and am
      fearful that corruption will appear in high places and the
      money powers of our country will concentrate in a few hands,
      and there is great danger of it overthrowing our republic"
                                        -- Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:49:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.044003.25837@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Greever) writes:
>(
>(Disclaimer - these are fully my own opinios - I mean nobody no harm)

Ok.  If you hadn't put this, I would've flamed, probably. :)

>The more I look at people's postings about the problems of the world in our
>Industrial Society, I keep thinking, perhaps we have forgotten the
>techings of Jesus.  We must recognize Jesus as our true savior as always
>to lead us into the divine light of revelation.  Yet what do you people 
>practice: Ugliness, Deviance, Delinquency.  Jesus can show you all your
>true path in life, and then maybe you can all co-operate and be friendly
>with each other in industry.

Nahh.  I'm an agnostic, and there are many of us (and atheists).  From
what I've observed, and my own opinions, repressed people (i.e.
religious, etc.) are the most damaged.  I've been around quite a few
"prim & proper" people & they're too anxious & jumpy.. maybe from being
repressed too much.  Most of my friends are agnostics or atheists, and
they're much more calm and easy at mind&heart.

>If we each followed the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have
>them do unto you", 
>there would be no problems in society.AA

Now here I agree.  I follow the Golden Rule, generally.  But hey, you
can't make everyone follow it.  Such is life.

-- 
Sam Hulick          | "You can't discover new oceans unless you have the
shulick@indiana.edu | courage to lose sight of the shore."  --Anon.
(NeXTmail welcome)  |
From: parsogd@wkuvx1.bitnet (Geoffrey Parsons, WKU)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer the Music and Movie
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:34:49 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <1992Nov3.164930.7488@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, petersom@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Mark Peterson) writes:
> Robert Everett Brunskill <rb6t+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
>>>I wouldn't like to see the whole soundtrack done by one group.
 ditto. That would suck.

> 
> I'd like to see a combination.  Perhaps some Iron Maiden for one of the runs.
> It would help show the brutality of Case's experiences in the Matrix.  This is
> something that I don't think "Alternative" could produce in a person, however,
> it could be used for other parts in the movie.

  How about some industral music? This would be the most apt type of
music for a Cyberpunk genre movie. I would suggest _Nine Inch Nails_, 
or _Front Line Assembly_.

> 
> 
> Also, I think River Pheonix would make an excellent Case!

  River? Way to young. The actor should be at least 30 year old. 

PARSOGD@wkuvx1.bitnet
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5640 alt.industrial:675
From: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:34:02 GMT
Reply-To: kxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Kathleen Hardy)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bladex@wixer.cactus.org (David Smith) says:
>
>It is somewhat of a never-ending cycle.  Men create technology according to
>their mode of thinking, communication, and expression, which is markedly
>different from the discourse of women.  Trust me, women did not make up the
>unwritten social mores, rules, and guidelines of ABUSENET.  This is entirely
>a "male thang".
	Sure is. And if you want to play the man's game, you play by
	the man's rules. Which in and of itself is intimidating when
	a woman does it. 
>When women do attempt to initiate conversation in a male-dominated domain (cp,
> industrial, this newsgroup) they are most often ignored, taken for granted,
>or just plain not taken seriously.  Not out of intentional spite, but
>institutional blindness, imho.  So if you want more women to contribute, shut
>up and listen to those who are already present, is my advice.
	Hey, I've never had a problem, myself. But then, I don't go spastic
	over getting mail from weird people saying weird things. Like 	
	a lot of the guys who've responded to my posts with comments
	completely irrelevant to my original post.
>When you mix all these elements together, toss in cultural conditioning over
>appropriate gender behaviour (good girls don't speak out) and views towards
>technology, then you should be able to see, at least, that the environment is
>not nearly as conducive for women as it is for men.
	Of course good girls don't speak out! It interferes with netting
	a husband, you know? However, if you don't have all that baggage,
	it's not a problem. I don't post much because I only tend to 
	comment on things I know about - like the treatment of women on
	the net. Me, I've never had much of a problem - but then, I ignore
	the twits and they go hassle someone else.

Kitten
-- 
Do you like the dark?
Do you like the way it moves?
Do you come alive when neon kills the sun?
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: u734120@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (John Lamp)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:38:12 GMT


Look the bible has to be fatally flawed - If Jesus was Jewish, how did he
end up with a Mexican name?

Cheers
John


--
   _--_|\             John Lamp, originating in Hobart, Tasmania
  /      \                 Phone: 002 23 1366 - Fax: 002 34 5685
  \_.--._/                   email: u734120@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
        v <-----------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5726 alt.industrial:726 alt.sex:36010 alt.sex.bondage:21799