From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.sf.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Deckard as 6th Replicant doesn't hold water
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:49:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep29.184912.22793
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <BD.92Sep28134215@fluent.UUCP> bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>
>>In article <BD.92Sep26090551@fluent.UUCP> bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>>>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>>>How could someone be responsible for killing lots of other replicants
>>>>and keep it a secret?  Sounds reasonable to me that lots of replicants
>>>>have heard about him.
>>>
>>>Sure, like all the little replicants on the outer worlds get
>>>together and talk about the newest rumors from earth.
>
>>Why not?  Some of them are extremely intelligent, e. g. Roy.  
>
>I'm not convinced Roy is all that smart.  What he accomplishes he 
>accomplishes by brute force, not intelligence, and he failed at his 
>one goal - gaining a longer life from Tyrell.  I'm not going
>to argue that Roy was dumb, but there isn't a lot of evidence
>for him being bright, either.  Poignant, yes.  Bright, maybe.

Roy is only four years old, and has a very low level of emotional
maturity.  But he is smart enough to know and understand the types
of approaches Tyrell considered for extending the life of replicants.
To absorb this in his short lifetime would require high intelligence.
But this is irrelevant, since all is required by the original poster
is enough intelligence to gain information about the existence of
a person like Deckard, as you will agree.
>
>>They apparently have set up some kind of semi-family unit or
>>at least live together.  
>
>Why do you think this?  I don't recall anything in the
>movie to suggest this.

Deckard goes back to Leon's apartment and sees the remains of 
Zhora's makeup in the bathtub, which is how Deckard tracks
Zhora down.  There is a photo, as well, in Leon's apartment which
shows someone else (Zhora?) on the bed.  Further, both Leon and
Roy are upset that Zhora was killed, which suggests that there is
a bit of a bond between these replicants that all escaped to
earth together.
>
>>It's certainly not inconceivable
>>that this particular unit has communitcated with others.
>
>Not inconceivable, but there's no evidence for it, either.

Which is more probable:  Replicants have occasional conversations
with other replicants, or replicants are kept in isolation and only
learn about earth from memory implants or escape to a planet knowing
nothing about it except that they want to go there?

>>There are apparently lots of them out there.  
>
>We really don't know this, do we?

Walsh talks about "skin jobs".  Do you think it is probable that a
derogatory slang term would be used for a very rare type of individual?

>
>>They aren't in prison
>>or kept incommunicado.  
>
>We don't know this, either.  In fact, since one of the
>escapees got fried (on a fence?) in the escape, it would not be 
>unreasonable to assume that they *are* in prison.

They could have been in prison at any time, but what would be the
point of building robots and keeping them in prison?  Just kill
them.  And this is irrelevant, since they are now not in prison,
but on earth, where they can communicate with anyone they choose.
Zhora had a job.  She had to communicate with other people, any of
whom could know about the "best" bladerunner, Deckard.  Some of
whom are shown in the movie as knowing Deckard by sight.
>
>>Some jobs require communication.  
>
>True, but my computer communicates with other computers - I doubt
>they gossip behind my back.

Your computer is not an AI.  Further, your computer can be shut off.
Even further, even your computer could have information received
from other computers describing Deckard's personnel file.  That 
analogy is just a tad weak.
>
>>It's no secret which of them are replicants.  They apparently have
>>affection and loyalty for one another.  
>
>So?
>
>>They had to make some
>>kind of preparations to get to Earth, and they may very well
>>have been aided by others with the same aspirations.  
>
>Again, you can assume this if you want to, but there's no
>evidence for it in the movie.  If you want to start a
>new thread in another group about possible lifestyles
>of replicants, that's fine, buit what's it got to
>do with this movie?

The original question was how it was possible that the replicants
could know about Deckard beforehand.  It has been shown that it
could have happened quite easily.
>
>>It's less probable that they have no knowledge of Earth and what
>>awaits them there.  And if they have nascent human emotions,
>>I'd consider it much less probable that they could resist
>>hearing about Earth and what goes on there.  For instance,
>>it didn't take Zhora long to figure out Deckard was a phony.
>>She didn't seem naive at all.  Don't know what else there
>>is to say
>
>Assuming for the moment that the replicants offworld do live
>in some sort of prison (since there is at least *some* evidence
>for that in the movie) why would they hear much about life
>on earth?

Oh, gee, I don't know.  Maybe a lot of the humans they run into
came from there?  
>
>We don't know a whole lot about the blade runner operation
>on Earth - all we know is that there are at least 2 blade
>runners (Holden and Deckard), and that their boss is in a tiny
>little office attached to some police force somewhere.
>
>Since the bladerunner operatiojn is so small budget, with such

Can't say.  Don't know anything about their budget.  Only
their interior decorator's budget.

>slimy little characters populating it (i.e. it's nothing
>large-scale, slick, and formal like the FBI), it's fair to assume
>that not many skin-jobs get back to earth.

Enough so that "bladerunner" is a particular appointment on the
policeforce, and that the guy serving Deckard his food at the
beginning seemed to know what Gaff meant.
>
>Your scenario, though (that a lot of replicants would have heard

No.  It's not necessary that a lot have.  Only that some have, and
that these include at least one of the replicants in the movie.

>of Deckard) requires not only that a fairly good number of replicants
>make it safely to earth (which is doubtful or there would be a larger, 
>better equipped blade runner force), but that some of them make

I can't make that assumption.  I don't know how many bladerunners
it takes per replicant.  I don't know how many there are.

>it back to the off-world sites and tell the other replicants what
>the story is.
>
>Sorry, Gilbert, it doesn't sound too likely to me.

Then the replicants are few in number or they do there jobs without
speaking to one another, or only talk about the job at hand, are
kept completely unaware of the existence of earth, or don't care,
or are kept in prison?  Okay.  May be the reason Roy wanted to
leave for earth so badly.
>
>
>-- 
>   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
>                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
>             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
>                              DoD # 0698