HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobber@daytona.tunl.duke.edu (Robert Chasteler)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Frozen Wyeast??
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:26:45 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <1993Jan27.130355.3526@walter.cray.com> kelly@spyro.cray.com (Matt Kelly) writes:
>
>Fellow Brewers,
>
>I got a packet of Wyeast in the mail a while back, but it sat in my
>garage for about 3 days at -10F or so.  By the time I got to it, it
>was, needless to say, FROZEN SOLID!!!
>
>Is this yeast usable anymore?  I know I can pop the packet and see if

I would have to say you will be damn lucky if the yeast is still okay.
This has to do with the fact that water freezes, it expands.  This 
expansion will cause the yeast cell membrane to break.  Freeze-dried
yeast, the dried yeast most people buy is actually dehydrated and cooled
at the same time to stop this from happening.  

I agree that you should still try and see if it will actually cause the
package to bulge, which it might depending on how long it was actually below
freezing temps.

Bobber
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Low O.S.G. reading
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean  VA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:16:22 GMT

In article <C17uqy.GK0@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
 nicholas@brazil.psych.purdue.edu (Jeffrey Nicholas) writes:

>I too had a similar experience with IPA.  I used 6.6# of light extract and
>1 pound of honey and got an original gravity of 1.030.  I think it is time 
>for some homebrewers more experienced than we to comment.  What do you say 
>guys and gals - Is something out of whack here?  My hydrometer is accurate.

The most likely explanation (99.9+ %) is that your sample was not 
representative of the wort.  This happens quite readily with mixing cold 
water and hot wort to get 5 gallons.  You need to mix better before taking 
the sample.

Another approach is to take a small sample from the brewpot and add the same 
proportion of cold water to it that you are adding to the fermenter.  If 
your brewpot has measurements so that you know you have 1.5 gallons in 
there, you can take out 1.5 ounces and add 3.5 ounces of water and measure 
the S.G. from there.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org
From: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Aluminum Pots: good or bad
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:33:30 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <1993Jan20.230726.434@news.mentorg.com> dgrammel@dgrammel.mentorg.com (Dave Grammel) writes:
>Some misinformed persons will probably claim that the aluminum will
>lead to alzheimers disease.  There is no proven cause and effect
>relationship between the two.  

In fact, the linkage between the two is now known to be nonexistent.
A recent paper (sorry, I don't have the reference but could probably
get it if anyone is really interested) points out that the original
study was flawed and what the researchers saw was actually an artifact
of the cell staining process.

Aluminum may or may not make your beer taste "tinny" but the link to
Alzheimers is spurious.

[Disclaimer: I am not a physician nor am I a biologist or biochemist.
I work with them but I ain't one and don't pretend to speak for anyone
other than myself.  If you're really concerned, ask a qualified
medical expert.]

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"The English are drinking the better beer in Bavaria."
            - Archibald Macleish, "Lines for an Interment"
From: slndw@cc.usu.edu (Mark Taratoot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: honey purification question ???
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:00:14 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

In article <20JAN199313210095@rosie.uh.edu>, st1xe@rosie.uh.edu (Brown, Derek S) writes:
> My uncle is an exterminater and in Texas, they are the only ones allowed
> to get rid of wild bee hives.  He has offered to give all the honey he gathers
> to help me make my meads.  
> 
> My question is:  How do I (do I even need to) purify the honey before I use it?
> 	He gives it to me with the the hive and dead bees still in it.  Should
> 	I boil the honey before I use it, like some recipes say to get rid
> 	of the wax, to purify it, and if so, for how long and at what
> 	temperature.  Or would the campden tablets provide enough sulfur
> 	dioxide to purify the honey whenever I use it.  I need a way to store
> 	the honey for a length of time also if he gives me more then I need at
> 	the time I'm using it.
> 
> Hey, fellow brewers, let me know.  I need ideas.
> 
> Derek

um, uh, just exactly how does he kill the bees?  I am assuming he 
uses some kind of poison and there would probably be some residual
toxic stuff in the hive/honey.  This would be more of a problem than
purification.  Just simmer the honey for a while with at least 30%
water.  The wax will float up and you can skim it off.  I don't know 
how to remove the toxic nasties.

good luck

-toot
-- 


  Mark Taratoot                   * I BRU.
  DoD3323                         * DU U?
  SLNDW@cc.usu.edu              
  Watershed Science                     
  Utah State University                             
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Re: Year end report
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:20:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.103520.10255@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Adam Edwards) writes:
>The 2% decline in total beer sales last year is indeed saddening, but
>bearable considering the small increase of late.  BUT DON'T WORRY, 
>this figure will increase signifigantly starting Sunday(my 21st
>birthday  :) :) :) :)

Actually, I don't think that it is saddening.  My own consumption of
commercial beer has declined by about 75% this year.  Of course, that
is due to the fact that I started brewing my own.  Of course, my
consumption of the top 10 beers remained static (at ~0%).  It does
make you wonder if homebrewing is becomming a large enough hobby
to impact commercial beer sales (of course, I am talking tenths of
a percent here).

Guido
From: ijn@bnr.co.uk (Ian Normington)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: REQ: Wheat beer recipe/help wanted
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:46:02 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Rd, Harlow, Essex, CM19 9NA, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.200.40


Hello,

	I had my first wheat beer this weekend, a Dunkelweizen(sp?) from
	the Munich area I think. I really enjoyed it and would like to
	have a go at brewing my own. So far I've only done extract and
	partial mash recipes, so I'm hoping that the process isn't to
	much different.

	Any advice will be gratefully received.
	
	Thanks,
		Ian

--
/********************************************************************\
	Ian Normington 			email:  ijn@bnr.co.uk
	BNR Europe Ltd, Harlow,		voice: (44) 279 402113
	Essex, England.			flames: bin
\********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: puc@stars.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bernard Puc)
Subject: need address
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA/GSFC-Laboratory for Astronomy and Solar Physics
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:11:00 GMT

Howdy Brewers-
	Can anyone tell me in what city Old Dominion Brewery is
located?  I know its somewhere in Northern Virginia.

	Thanks in advance...

-Bernard
From: watson@ccsf.caltech.edu (Stephen H. Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Hymn to Ninkasi:  Ancient beer recipe
Date: 26 Jan 1993 17:48:23 GMT
Organization: CCSF Caltech, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu

In article <1993Jan25.204055.10561@ac.dal.ca>, ech@ac.dal.ca writes:
|> Here's the original Sumarian Beer recipe, translated into English.  I
|> did copy it down off the radio, so there may be c ouple of minor errors.
|> 
|> Professor Solomon Katz, University of Pennsylvania, Anthropology,
|> interviewd on CBC AS IT HAPPENS, april 1992
|> 
|>  ...
|>
|> The filtering vat which makes a pleasant sound
|> You place appropriately on top of a large collector vat.
|> When you pour out the filtered beer of the collector vat, it is
|>      like the onrush of the Tigris and Euphrates.
|> 
|> 
|> 	So, you can interpret the recipe for yourself.  
|> 	Happy ancient brewing...
|> 	ed
|> 

Wait a minute...Sumerian includes words like "collector vat" and
"filtering vat"?   Hmmmm....Sounds like some Sumerian poetic
license to me, but I dig it anyway!

Steve Watson
JPL
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: garnett@teal.csn.org (James Garnett)
Subject: Re: How about potatos ? (Can one make anything from them) ?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:41:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.205058.25876@PacBell.COM> smmyers@foghorn.srv.pacbell.com (Sean Myers) writes:
>
>     It doesn't sound gross at all, it sounds like vodka ;-)  Although I'm not
>sure what process they go through to make the vodka (some distillation process
>I'm sure), but it is made out of potatoes.

But then this isn't always true.  Stolichnaya Vodka says on the label 
something to the extent of "made with (the finest?) russian wheats..."
and then goes on to babble about spices and peppers if you got the
pepper-flavored type.   "vod" is, according to an east-german friend, russian 
for "water" with "ka" being some sort of standard linguistic attachment, the 
meaning of which I forgot.

The online webster says vodka is "a colorless and unaged liquor of neutral 
spirits distilled from a mash (as of rye or wheat)" so with a certain 
stretch of the imagination I suppose I could distill my wheat beer currently
in the carboy and call it "vodka"!

~james

James Garnett                       Colorado SuperNet Technical Support
XOR Network Engineering Inc, Boulder, Colorado          garnett@xor.com
All opinions expressed here are my own, of course.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Aeration
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:34:30 GMT

In article 10613@PacBell.COM, smmyers@foghorn.srv.pacbell.com (Sean Myers) writes:
>
>Lemme get this straight.  You aerate your wort before adding the yeast right ?
>
>or do you shake it up after adding the yeast ?

I personally aerate before pitching.  I found that if I aerate after
pitching, lots of yeast stick to the inside shoulder of the carboy,
rendering themselves useless.  (I am not making this up.)

Whatever works, right?

have fun
gak

---
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------|
Internet:            gak@wrs.com |----GO----| Oh, what heights we'll hit...
ATTMAIL: ...!attmail!gakhaus!gak |---SHARX--| On with the show!  This is it!
Cow Palace:            107/H/3-4 |----------|

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Baker)
Subject: Anise (and a bit on Wyeast)
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: all
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:20:16 GMT

 I am thinking about adding some anise seed when I dry hop my latest batch
of Edwin's Special Cider.  Anyway, I am at a loss as to how to add them.  
Should I crush them and then add, or should I just drop them in whole?  
Also, would it be better if I just went out and bought some anise oil
and added it instead?.  Any help taken!
 I also just started my first liquid yeast batch yesterday.  I am making 
E.S.C, Munich lager version, using 13.3 IBU of Chinook, and I used
Wyeast Munich Lager.  Although my one gallon batch is not much bigger than
a starter, I just pitched direct after letting the package swell, and this
morning it was going quite well at about 70 deg. Farenheit.  After it 
kraeusens out, I will be transfering it to the frig where I will keep it
at about 40.  So far it looks pretty good.

******************************************************************************* All animals are strictly dry, they sinless live and swiftly die.
But sinful, Ginful, beer soaked man survives three score years and ten
                                                -origin unknown-
*******************************************************************************
Edwin Sharp
esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu
Finger me often to see the amazing plan changer in action!

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: zamick@inferno.rutgers.edu (Jonny the Z)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer
Subject: Another Pub for the list
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:36:56 GMT
Followup-To: rec.crafts.brewing
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I noticed when reading the brewpub lists that not all the places
listed brewed their own beers, some merely (as if its a minor boon =)
provided fine beers, and a good atmosphere.

Since New Jersey does not allow places to brew their own beer I have
decided to write up a fine bar which provides a good beer and what's
more doesn't have a piece of yuppified faux marble anywhere.

So if somebody could please add this to whatever list it belongs on
I'd be very pleased-

-------------------

New Brunswick, New Jersey:

Name: McCormicks 	Address: 266 Somerset Ave.

This small bar is just out of the standard college radius (New
Brunswick being the center of Rutgers University.) So there will be
students there, but the clientele is very diverse and a meat scam
scene it is not. The selection of beers on tap is very nice. They have
'cheap beer' for those of the undiscerning palate. (I don't know what
it is, never drank it, and it really is listed as 'cheap beer'). In
addition they have beers such as the standard Guiness and Bass, and
the not so standard: Pilsner Urquell, Hacker Pschor, Woodpecker Cider,
and a few others which I'm sure deserve mention but I currently
forget. (Woodpecker cider on tap is not to be missed). They also have
a great selection of bottled beers. Yes even such greats as Old
Peculier. Wowsers.

While writing this post, I am sipping from a to-go container of
Pilsner Urquell I picked up for inspiration. They have music
sometimes, and recipes for Irish stew on the wall. The dart board is
right by the door so be careful when entering, and the pool table at
the back is usually available for the affordable $.50. So go go go go
go to McCormicks. If you don't know how to get there look em up, they
should be listed. But go. You won't be disappointed. Its all wood. No
wierd light fixtures and no cold stone. Drink and be merry.


-----------------


Jonathan Zamick
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: birmingh@fnalo.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Which dregs to culture?
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:46:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Deep Thirteen
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

In article <1993Jan25.225826.16862@mdd.comm.mot.com>, byars@mdd.comm.mot.com (David A. Byars) writes:
>  Would other's who have cultured from bottles of SNPA post or mail
>  your experiences?

         Please post, as I've been toying with this idea, too.

-- 
 Phillip J. Birmingham   birmingh@fnal.fnal.gov  
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...
From: debram@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Debra Mallette)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:43:15 GMT
Subject: Re: knitting gauge swatch
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles

You did right by measuring the whole gauge swatch then calculating the
unit gauge.  You want to make sure your swatch is large enough to 
encounter all of the variation at least twice on both rows and stitches.
You also want to wash the swatch using the directions for the yarn to
make sure you don't have any unpleasant surprises the first time you
garment.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
From: pwb@aerg.canberra.edu.au (Paul Blackman)
Subject: Gifxts.zip: Where would you like it FTP'd to?
Organization: University of Canberra
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 22:32:37 GMT

I would like to know any FTP sites that
would be appropriate for the uploading of
GIFXTS.ZIP.

I thought I should see if there is a well know
craft type ftp site.

Any suggestions?

Paul...   (pwb@aerg.canberra.edu.au)
PS. Let me know today and I'll put it up today,
otherwise I'll be gone for ~5 days.

Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Canberra
Keywords:
From: nancy@world.std.com (Nancy C Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: Re: Need x-stitch hints
Keywords: needles, rust, gold
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:54:03 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Although my gold needles have lost their gold after a lot of use, I
haven't had any of them rust.  Same for the needles that started out
silver.  Maybe I'm just lucky.

--Nancy Reynolds
From: jdoak@lab1.smcm.edu (Jennifer L. Doak)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: cross-stitch program and computer mis-understanding
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:53:32 GMT


I've been reading with interest about the cross stitch program.  I've ben  
told that someone here could show me how to ftp (am VERY new to computers  
and all their functions that I don't understand) but I don't know if it  
would work on the NeXT computers I currently use...anyone know about  
that??  Thanks.....

jen

jdoak@oyster.smcm.edu
From: edg@netcom.com (Ed Greenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: GIFXTS in SIMTEL20 and Mirrors
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:33:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)


I have uploaded to WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil:

pd1:<msdos.gif>
GIFXTS.ZIP      Transforms GIF file to Cross Stitch pattern

The purpose of this program is to take GIF files (some of which are
great pictures) and change them into charted stitch patterns.  The
program can handle GIF images up to 640 pixels x 480 pixels.  The
simplest use is to load in a GIF image, create the printable output
and print the charted image.

GIFXTS is shareware by:

   Chris O'Donnell
   576 Benson Road
   Middlebury, Ct 06762

   CIS: 70431,1427

- -
Edward W. Greenberg  | Home: +1 408 283 0511 | edg@netcom.com
1600 Stokes St. #24  | Work: +1 408 764 5305 | DoD#: 0357
San Jose, CA  95126  | Fax:  +1 408 764 5003 | KM6CG (ex WB2GOH)

-- 
Edward W. Greenberg  | Home: +1 408 283 0511 | edg@netcom.com
1600 Stokes St. #24  | Work: +1 408 764 5305 | DoD#: 0357
San Jose, CA  95126  | Fax:  +1 408 764 5003 | KM6CG (ex WB2GOH)
From: judys@sytex.com (judy smith)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: Re: quilt program for com
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 11:54:29 EST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

LC>|> Also, does anyone know
LC>|> if there is a list that deals with quilts? Thanks!
LC>|>                                           Kim


Kim, there is a QUILT maillist group on Internet. You can subscribe
by sending the following info to listserv@cornell.edu:
 SUB QUILT firstname lastname
 SET QUILT MAIL ACK

These commands must be in the body of your mail files. They cannot
be in the "subject" file.

For further info about QUILT, contact Anne Louise Gockel, at
alg@cs.cornell.edu.

Also, there are active quilting groups and categories on both
GEnie and Prodigy. I am active in both and would be glad to answer
questions if anyone wants any info. JUDY
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
*  Judy Smith                   *
*  INTERNET: judys@sytex.com    *
*  GEnie: JUDY.S                *
*  PRODIGY: TXXT92A             *
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
From: holsten@golden.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: Re: Need x-stitch hints
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:51:27 GMT
Organization: U.C. College of Natural Resources
NNTP-Posting-Host: golden.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan26.084806.21780@newstand.syr.edu> jareed@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Judith Ann Reed) writes:

>* How do you deal with patterns that need a stitch or three of a color in 
>widely varied places? 

I would like to hear some answers for this question, too.

>* Do you work in straight rows across the pattern, in one direction, or do you
>follow the design sections, working on various sections as you get to that
>color?

I start in the middle of the piece and work out from there.  I will
usually work in color blocks, rather than in straight rows across the
pattern.

>Do you mark up the pattern as you go?

Yes.  I fill in the squares with a light pencil.  If I feel that there
might be a chance that I will want to reuse the pattern, I make a copy
before I begin.

>* Is it possible to clean the face of the work when you finish, as I note it
>can sometimes get a bit dirty.

I always dry clean my work.  Also, if you put a kleenex over the fabric
before you put it in the hoop, and then just tear out the part that
covers your working area, the rest of the fabric stays cleaner.

>Should it be put in a frame with or without glass?

A frame with glass will keep the piece clean longer.  With some types of
embroidery (pieces with texture), glass is detrimental, but with
cross-stitch, I find that it works well.

>* How old is counted x-stitch as a craft? Is it fairly recent? If not, how
>did long-ago stitchers do things? What fabrics did they use, what did they
>do with their finished pieces, etc? Was it used on clothing and household
>items?                                        

I don't know how old cross stitch is, but blackwork (similar to cross
stitch; it is a counted stitch type of embroidery) goes back to the
Renaissance and possibly even earlier than that.  They would use
regular, evenly woven fabric and generally wear the pieces as part of
their clothing.                

>* Do you knot the threads on the back, or rely on weaving it in under other
>threads?

I always weave the threads under other threads--I find it faster than
knotting.

Hope this helps.

Donna Holsten
holsten@insect.berkeley.edu
From: kao@adam.unbsj.ca (Kim Osborne)
Subject: quilt program for computer?
Keywords: Knitted Vest
Organization: University of New Brunswick, Saint John
 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:41:43 GMT

Hi, I got the xstitch program yesterday and it is great! I was wondering
if there was a programout there for quilts. Also, does anyone know
if there is a list that deals with quilts? Thanks!
                                          Kim
From: lsc@ssd.intel.com (Linda Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles
Subject: Re: >> Program for WEAVING designs <<
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:23:49 GMT
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.

In article <1993Jan25.144932.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, ksmith@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> 
|> WANTED:  weaving design program, preferably SHAREWARE
|> 
|> does anyone know of a SHAREWARE program (meaning, i can get it off a bulletin
|> board using FTP, and it's free) that helps in designing weave patterns on
|> multiple harness looms?
|> 

	There is a program called Weave that is available via ftp from 
the simtel mirror sites.  E.g., ftp.uunet is one such site, and has it 
under systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel20/graphics/weave20.zip.
	There is also Draft, which is available on Compuserve, Fibernet
(1-218-583-4337), and on disk from Seattle Textile Computer Users Group
($4 to P.O. Box 17506, Seattle, WA, 98107).  Weave is also available
from Fibernet and Compuserve.
	There are others, but are mostly demos of commercial programs, 
and may not be fully functional.  These programs are for DOS machines.
	I believe both Draft and Weave are freeware.  Remember that 
*shareware* programs are not intended to be "free".
 
	linda

Note:  I am not affiliated with any of the BBS's, groups or software
listed above; I am just another user...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in
the same place.  If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at
least twice as fast as that!"	
                                        Lewis Carroll
Linda Cline                             Through the Looking Glass
Intel Supercomputer Systems Division 
email: lsc@ssd.intel.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles