HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: Brewhas intereseted in Brunansky?
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:15:05 GMT

In article <1k6ei0INN6b8@uwm.edu>, paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
wrote:
> 
> I heard on the local news last night that Milwaukee was interested in
> signing Tom Brunansky. Anyone heard any other news? I suppose it wouldn't
> be the worst thing that could happen. It would allow Garner to play
> Hamilton in center for Yount occasionally and sub Bruno for Vaughn when
> Vaughn is slumping. Bruno tends to be a streak hitter right? Between him
> and Vaughn, Milwaukee would probably have one of the best outfielders in
> baseball for a two-week interval about four times next season. Of course
> they'd have a rally-killing .180 hitter the rest of the season.
> 
> Any thoughts on this Valentine, anybody else?
> 
> --salty

Well, as we've been saying on the Red Sox list all winter, Bruno's career
stats don't look that much different from Ivan Calderon's. It all depends
on whether he's going to get regular PT; as you say, when healthy, he gets
streaky (I remember one game at Fenway when he went something like 6 for 6
and he looked like Babe Ruth's smarter, evil twin) but you don't get the
streaks if he's not playing regularly.

He's above average in the field, or at least was through '91 ( I didn't see
him play last year!!), and will get a small asterisk of appreciation for
his gutsy play in the Sox' pennant drive in September of '90 culminating in
a diving catch to end the last game against the White Sox and win the
division. He was beloved by fans in Minnesota and not hated nearly as much
as other players in Boston, which is as close to adoration you can get
there.

Bruno sticks out in my mind as the only guy I've ever heard of who said he
wasn't worth what he was being paid and deserved a pay cut.

- Matt

---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
From: ilindsay@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Local Star Wars Guru)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: AAA All-Star Game
Date: 24 Jan 93 04:54:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

Does anyone know where the AAA all-star game will be held this
year?  Also post or send any info (ticket) you may have about
how to get tickets, etc.
Thanks
                              ->Ian Lindsay<-
                              <ilindsay@flint.mines.colorado.edu>

Subject: AAA All-Star Game
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Distribution: 
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

Does anyone know where the AAA all-star game will be held this
year?  Also post or send any info (ticket) you may have about
how to get tickets, etc.
Thanks
                              ->Ian Lindsay<-
                              <ilindsay@flint.mines.colorado.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tjrad@iastate.edu (Thomas J Radosevich)
Subject: Re: Spring Training Schedule
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:07:06 GMT



Hi folks,

The spring training scedule is in todays (thurs.) USA Today sports section
in case anyone wants it.

Tom Radosevich
From: jortiz@vivaldi.helios.nd.edu (The Candyman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Moving superstars?
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:08:50 GMT
Reply-To: jortiz@vivaldi.helios.nd.edu (The Candyman)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

In article <1993Jan21.174815.14368@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan20.182513.13869@bsu-ucs> 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
|> >
|> >There was talk of moving Ryno back to third when Griffen got to the
|> >majors. He was thought to be THAT good. Well anyway Ryno became more
|> >than just a former MVP, he bacame the premier second baseman in
|> >history so the Cubs started trying Griffen at shortstop and thirdbase.
|> 
|> I'm curious.  Why should this matter?  Sandberg's defense is good, but
|> it isn't *that* good.  And it would probably be good at third base
             ^^^^^
Just wondering, how many defensive records has Sandberg set
as a second baseman?  How many times has he led the league in
defensive categories for second basemen

|> too.  I'd consider moving Sandberg to third to make room for even a
|> simply good prospect, if that prospect were better suited to 2B than
|> Sandberg.
|> 
|> I'm not proposing trading Sandberg, or doing anything that might lose
|> his bat from the lineup.  But if the offensive considerations imply
|> that you want to be playing Sandberg and X (maybe the Cubs have a good
|> 2B prospect and no 3B prospects), and the defensive considerations
|> imply that X at 2B and Sandberg at 3B is a stronger defensive
|> alignment than the other way around, why should it be a big deal?
|> 
It is unlikely that any manager could move a player of Sandberg's caliber
out of his favorite position for some unproven rookie.  It is usually
the other way around.

The Candyman
A Braves Fan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:59:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.122112.13976@bsu-ucs> 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>In article <2272@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>> Thus spake 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu:
>>>There was talk of moving Ryno back to third when Griffen got
>>>to the majors. He was thought to be THAT good. Well anyway Ryno became more
>>>than just a former MVP, he bacame the premier second baseman in history 
>> 
>> Do they really believe this in Chicago?  Talk about parochialism...
>> 
>So who do you think was better? 

Joe Morgan.

>And please don't say Joe Morgan. 

Oops.

>Maybe if you go back before 1950 you could make a case. 

Speaking of which, Charlie Gehringer died today.  He was about Sandberg's
caliber.

You can definitely make a case for Hornsby being much better.

>Although I admit I should have said,
>one of the premier second basemen in history.

The premier second basemen in history have more than three great seasons
and three good seasons.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mb@cray.com (Maynard Brandt)
Subject: Re: 1993 MLB WS odds
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Distribution: na
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:04:14 CST

In article <1993Jan21.132431.24404@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
>
>
>The following odds chart appeared today in the Toronto Star, and represents
>the odds listed by the Flamingo Hotel sports book in Laughlin, Nev. The
>odds represent the odds to win the 1993 WS:
>
>Team		Odds
>----		----
>
>Atlanta	3:1
>Toronto	4:1
>Montreal	8:1		[alright!]
>Chisox		8:1
>Cincinnati	8:1
>
Considering that the AL has the homefield WS advantage in 1993 and the NL
hasn't won in that situation for quite some time, isn't it strange to have
3 NL teams in the top 5?
-- 
Regards,

Maynard Brandt
Cray Research, Inc.
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dodgers in '93
Date: 24 Jan 1993 23:46:18 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

It is very simple.  Get rid of Fred Claire.  Enough said.

					BleedsDodgerBlue
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:36:49 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu:

>There was talk of moving Ryno back to third when Griffen got
>to the majors. He was thought to be THAT good. Well anyway Ryno became more
>than just a former MVP, he bacame the premier second baseman in history 

Hee hee.

Do they really believe this in Chicago?  Talk about parochialism...

-- 
       David Tate        |"Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | That sends the screaming liner over it 
 Prof. of Story Problems | And spills the bleacher-dwellers from their seats."
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR |  	"Fenway Wall", Robert Frost
From: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Why Rabbit is in the Hall
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 14:01:31 EST
Reply-To: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Distribution: na
Organization: G.T.M. Incorporated, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078
Content-Type: Text

roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

> In article <8824@news.duke.edu> fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:
> >
> >     Rabbit Maranville is in the Hall of Fame because he played for the
> >1914 Miracle Braves who won the World Series.  Anybody can play 3000 games,
> >but it takes a real HoFer to win the World Series for (a) Boston, and
> >(b) the Braves.
> 
> He and Boston great Babe Ruth also played for the 1935 Braves, one of 
> the all-time worst teams.    Both ended their careers that year.
> 
> 
> (Oddly enough, the 34 and 36 teams weren't all that bad.  Anyone know what 
> the story was?)
> 
> Roger
> 
1934 St.Louis (N) over Detroit (A) 4-3
Dizzy and Paul Dean hurled the cardinals to the title, winning all four
Redbird victories. A bad defensive series, with 27 errors and 13 uneared
runs.

1936 New York (A) over New York (N) 4-2 
The Yankees hammered Giant pitching in Games Two and Six, ending with 43
runs for the series. Tony Lazzeri and Bill Dickey each drove in five runs
in the second contest, when Joe McCarthy's "Windowbreakers" scored 18
times to set a record.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry A. Gerritsen         |  G.T.M. Incorporated              (613) 384 0162
Transportation Consultant  |  Kingston, Ontario           Fax: (613) 389 4594
Air/Rail/Road         "Transportation is our business"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Playoffs
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:43:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.162448.12615@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>Furthermore, they aren't thinking.  Unless the first round of playoffs
>is limited to a best of 3 or something, you could end up with a month of
>postseason.  What happens when all 3 series go to the final game?
>You're going to have 7+7+x games for each team.  That's too many.

Why is it too many?  Shorten the regular season (which would probably
be a good thing anyways) and there is plenty of room for three-plus
weeks of playoffs.  Of course, you might have to get rid of some of
the travel days.  But there are worse things that could happen.

>Now maybe if they make the 1st level a best of 3, and drop the second
>round back to best of 5.  That wouldn't be quite so bad.

Oh?  This would be *dreadful*.  A seven game series is chancy enough.
You expect the weaker team to often slip by.  But a best-of-three
series???  It would make far more sense to play a three game world
series and seven games in the first round.  At least make teams *earn*
the chance to play in the championship round.

-Valentine
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:38315 rec.sport.baseball.fantasy:1105
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 22 Jan 1993 13:55:21 EST
From: Michael S. Matusiewicz <34EX5PH@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Subject: FBL, How is yours run??

Question posed to you netters.  I have been involved in two different
FBL and an curious on how others are ran.  If possible could you send me
a list of rules and scoring schemas that you use in your league.  The
reason for this I would like to start my own, and modify a little of
what I have already.

thanks in advance, Michael
34ex5ph@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:43 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan20.234612.29231@Princeton.EDU>, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes...
>In article <105822@netnews.upenn.edu> jnimerof@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Jeff Nimeroff) writes:
>>As much as I hate rumors, a puzzling one has come across my desk by
>>way of Jayson Stark (a Philly sportswriter).  The rumored trade has
>>John Kruk going to the Cards straight up for Todd Zeile.  Any comments.
>> 
>I'm trying to figure out for which team this deal is dumber.
> 
>Do the Cardinals *have* another 3bman?
>They actually do have a potential 1bman -- Hector.
> 
>Where would Zeile play for the Phillies?  
>His two positions so far have been c and 3b.  The Phillies are solid
>there.  I guess he'd play first.  But Kruk is better than Zeile.  (Though
>older.)

This sounds like another "great" Dal Maxvill trade.  He seems to be covinced
(again) that the Cards are only a year away from greatness.  I wish that he
would just let the younger players develop.  The good young pitchers plus
Lankford, Jose, Pena, et al. would be the nucleus of a great team a few years
down the line.  If Torre didn't ruin them, that is.  But Dal seems determined
to trade away one good young player after another in an attempt to bolster the
offense for a year or two.  At least Kruk is a real offensive producer, which
Galarraga obviously wasn't.

On the other hand, trading Zeile for Kruk doesn't make much sense.  I guess
the Cards would switch Royer back to 3rd and hope he can play there.  Or maybe
they think Guerrero could play 3rd.  Don't laugh!  Last year they were convinced
he could play left.  

If they still had Hill they could afford to give up a starting pitcher for 
Kruk.  This trade would have made sense for both teams.  Unfortunately...

Aaron Packman
aaron@caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Lefty Grove....
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:46:06 GMT

In article <sterbenc-220193095818@150.130.23.185> sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com (Joe Sterbenc) writes:
>In article <21631@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary
>She's Making Eyes Huckabay) wrote:

>> Douglas Fowler writes:

>> +                           Boston Red Sox
>> +
>> +Starting Pitcher
>> +Cy Young
>> +Babe Ruth
>> +Roger Clemens
>> +Lefty Grove
>> +
>> +     Boston-Because of their park or something, there is a misconception
>> +that this team is not pitching-rich.  However, unless you're the Pirates,
>> +after 90 years you should have at least some pitching!  Look at this:  Cy
>> +Young in his prime; Babe Ruth, about whom Tris Speaker said that "he made a
>> +mistake by switching to the outfield"; Roger Clemens; and a still very good
>> +Lefty Grove. 

>> In my opinion, Lefty Grove is the BEST pitcher in the history of baseball,
>> bar none.  I don't think Young, Ruth, or Clemens deserves to be ranked 
>> ahead of him, as you imply here.  Perhaps Clemens WILL deserve that at some
>> point, though.

>> Grove...

>> Played 17 years in the bigs, and led the league in ERA 9 times in those
>> 17 years.  His career ERA of 3.06 is AMAZING when taken in the context of
>> the era in which he played.  Clemens' career ERA of 2.89, when taken in
>> context, is roughly comparable, perhaps not quite as good.

>> (Source: TB II.)

>> Of course, Grove played with Philadelphia, too, so there's that to consider,
>> but I don't think anyone, with the exception of Koufax, has the peak
>> value of Grove, and I don't think anyone comes close to the career value.

>I believe that Grove was at his peak pitching for the then-minor-league
>Baltimore Orioles, and that he then spent a lot of years with the A's. He

Grove joined the A's at the age of 25, so I doubt he'd peaked before then.

>probably wasn't at peak form when he was on Boston.

Naah.  Like, after an injury his first year with Boston, he won four ERA
titles in the next five years -- this is Fenway we're talking about,
fans! -- and placed 5th in ERA in the off year.  How many pitchers
have *ever* done that?  

Grove was 34 years old in the injury year.

No, that wasn't his peak.  But it was better than the peak of almost
any other pitcher...

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:25:18 GMT
Organization: HCF - Johns Hopkins University, Balitmore, Maryland, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

Does anybody (who was an adult at the time) know specifically and
thoroughly what the reasons were for instituting the DH?

I agree that it seems impossible to either banish the DH or standardize
it. I think we have to look at its origins and see if the original thinking
is still suitable for today's game.
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:44:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.180857.16945@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>Unfortunately, though perhaps nobody on the *net* is arguing that
>organizations shouldn't be able to ban all reporters from the locker rooms,
>it appears to be the case that the Commission has decided that they shouldn't
>be able to do so.

Which Commission is that?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cardinal's Player Development [was Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor]
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:37 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <2296@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes...

[original thread deleted]

>The Zeile situation has been confusing me no end ever since the kid came up.
>I mean, here's a player with outstanding offense for a catcher, OK offense
>for a third baseman, and rotten offense for a first baseman.  So, by all means,
>let's never ever let him catch, but instead put him at third with an eye on
>maybe first eventually.
> 
>Borrowing from the parallel thread on positional offensive adjustments, it's
>clear that you give up a *lot* by moving Zeile from catcher to any position
>way up on the "average offense" scale.  Third base is in the middle, but first
>base is out of Todd's league.  (Note: moving Biggio from catcher to 2B was a
>much smaller shift, in terms of average offensive performance across the NL.)
> 
>What good is extending the gentleman's career if he's going to be below average
>*during* that career?  Let him catch, or trade him.
[more stuff deleted]

As has been noted in this newsgroup before, the Cardinals have a terrible habit
of carefully bringing players up through their system and then screwing with 
them unmercifully at the major-league level.  Zeile's the best example of this,
but not the only one.  In Zeile's case, the Cardinals carefully gave
him a full year at both AA and AAA, but then decided he wasn't going to be a
catcher after he had some defensive problems his first year.  I think a big
part of the decision to move Zeile was simply that Torre had done it.  It
certainly wasn't Zeile's idea.  In addition, they tinkered with his swing, 
continually shifted him around in the batting order, and in general did 
everything they could to keep him from being comfortable.

I wish the Cardinals would just let some of these young guys play for a
while.  You know, take the best young players, decide what position they'll 
play, give them a spot in the batting order, and let them play that way for
a couple of months.  There's a lot of young talent there, but I'm afraid
it'll either be squandered in useless quick-fix trades or crushed like Zeile
was.

I guess what I actually want is for the Cardinals to just make rational 
decisions, but I guess that's asking too much. 


Aaron Packman
aaron@caltech.edu
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Why Rabbit is in the Hall
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:51 EST
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan20.012605.27165@Princeton.EDU>, roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes...
>In article <8824@news.duke.edu> fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:
>>
>>	Rabbit Maranville is in the Hall of Fame because he played for the
>>1914 Miracle Braves who won the World Series.  Anybody can play 3000 games,
>>but it takes a real HoFer to win the World Series for (a) Boston, and
>>(b) the Braves.
> 
>He and Boston great Babe Ruth also played for the 1935 Braves, one of 
>the all-time worst teams.    Both ended their careers that year.

	Rabbit is the best example of exactly why "mediots" shouldn't run
the Hall of Fame voting.  He played for 23 years, only excelling in 1921
and 1922 for the Pirates, but the sportswriters loved him.  He was a clown,
and one of those players that people loved to watch, even if he wasn't
great.
	The Hall of Fame Yearbook, which finds good things to say about
every inducted player, is nebulous on Rabbit.  It merely says:
	"Rabbit compensated for his lack of size with an overabundance of
spunk and determination.  He came up with the Braves in 1912 at the age
of 20 and he went on to play 23 years and 2670 games - combinations
exceeded only by Ty Cobb and Eddie Collins.  An excellent fielder famous
for his "basket catches", Maranville was considered an outstanding clutch
performer.  A Member of the 1914 Miracle Braves".
	Not exactly glowing ... so why did he get in?  It took him 20
years after he retired.  He was elected in 1954.  He died on January 
5th of 1954.   APparently, the sportswriters were so saddened that they
payed him the ultimate tribute by giving him enshrinement.
> 
>(Oddly enough, the 34 and 36 teams weren't all that bad.  Anyone know what 
>the story was?)

	When your #2 starter strikes out 34 men in 210 innings, in any
age, you have problems.  Having no power or average doesn't hurt either.
Without Wally Berger (34 HRs, .295, 130 RBI for a team with no on-base)
this team had nobody else even remotely memorable (Rabbit and Babe
retired early in the year)
> 
>Roger
> 
						Jason Miller
						"some doctor guy"