HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Lady and the Tramp
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:57:30 GMT
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

>>ICSPMS@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>>> Does anyone know if "Lady and the Tramp" is out on video?  I've been
>>> looking for it, but can't find it anywhere!
>
In article <Bvov74.20q@world.std.com> andyi@world.std.com (Andy G Ihnatko) writes:
>It's a fairly common item in most laserdisc stores; it'll cost you sixty bucks,
>and you'll have to copy it onto VHS, but it should be easy to find...

The only version that is presently available on laser disc is a Japanese 
import.  It IS letterboxed.  There is nothing else special about the disc
itself.  For example there are no Japanese subtitles as I recall.  There
are some Kanji characters on the disc jacket, however.  If your local laser
disc seller doesn't have it, they should be able to order it from Japan
(which may take a little time).  If you don't have a laser disc player, I'm
sure you could find a friend that would copy it onto tape for you as Andy
said.  (This is perfectly legal by the way, as long as you keep the original
and the copy.)

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: Children & 3-D Movies
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 18:51:13 GMT

In article <2237@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.153908.15195@news.ysu.edu> ad198@yfn.ysu.edu (Carl Landis) writes:
>
>The only trauma was caused by Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.  After riding it once,
>the three-year-old refused (as only a three-year-old can refuse) to enter
>any of the rides having similar-looking entrances (Snow White, Peter Pan).

Very interesting.  Another poster has also mentioned Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
as one that frightened her child, and I can attest, second hand, that it
has been doing so for many years.  My elder brother, when just a wee tot,
bit my father rather than permit himself to be taken on this attraction.
That must have been some thirty years ago.  I wonder what it is about
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride that children find so uniquely disturbing?

--
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: stewart@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Stewart)
Subject: Beauty and the Beast JPEG
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:31:26 GMT

I have posted a Beauty and the Beast JPEG in the alt.binaries.pictures.misc area.
It is a picture of the Beast and Belle dancing in the ballroom. It's not the best
because I had to take it off a Sing-A-Long Songs video, and I waited until no
words were on the screen. Anyway, it should be there if you want it. It's my
first post so we'll see. I may try to put more up later.

Daniel


-- 
Daniel Stewart
stewart@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: WDW at New Years
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:16:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: chinet.Bw2to0.720
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX

My family (parents) and I used to go to WDW every holiday season with the
explicit purpose of spending New Year's Eve at the Magic Kingdom.  Some
observations:

1) The park will be at max capacity, guaranteed.  Something like 95,000+ 
   for MK + EPCOT, I don't know how many MGM holds.  The parking lot will
   _close_ when the turnstyles hit that number, and they will stop incoming
   traffic in I-4.  Moral: Get there early, or else stay on Disney property
   and the shuttles will still run regardless of the park status.

2) Park is usually open until 1am that night.

3) Free party hats and horns for _everyone_.  Imagine 500 people blowing
   horns in _Pirates_, during shows, on Space Mountain, etc.  It's a blast.

4) Mega fireworks show at midnight, after a long show at Cinderella's Castle.
   Best I've ever seen.  There are tons of shows everywhere that night.
   Parade times are sometimes modified.

Disney puts on the best party for New Year's Eve I have ever been to,
alcoholic or non-alcoholic.  I've never spent the Eve at EPCOT, but I'm 
sure the same thing goes on.  If you can deal with the huge crowds and
very long waits, go for it.  Yes, the park does empty out right afterward.
Stay in the park and ride everything you can and let the masses fight their
way out the door.  It's kind of fun after midnight, the cast members kind of
loosen up a bit in the spirit of things.  

It usually gets cool at night, like low 50s upper 40s.  Days are warmer like
60s, which makes dressing hard.  Wear layers, dump stuff at the lockers.
You can see the fireworks anywhere, don't bother scoping out a spot.

Good luck...
-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us
From: cscon134@uoft02.utoledo.edu (John Heiden UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: The Small One
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:09:59 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <92287.083252WTQ@psuvm.psu.edu>, <WTQ@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> I'm not familiar with most of the post 1970 Disney animation. Recently I've
> read little blurbs regarding a "1978-Special" that was done by Don Bluth,
> however, none of my other Disney books mention it. Can someone fill me in
> on this film or recommend a book that has information?
> 
> ******************************************************************************
> * Reid S. Woolery                          The Pennsylvania State University *
> * (Appl/Sys/Analyst) UTS                   WTQ@PSUVM.PSU.EDU                 *
> ******************************************************************************
-- 
Well, let's see.  The film came out not too long before Christmas, and it
was either Don Bluth's last Disney film, or second to last.  But I believe
it was his last.  The film's title refers to the donkey that carried
Jesus' mother Mary before he was born.  I can't recall much more than that
this moment either.  I know the film is a short, and I also believe it
is actually a "featurette".

I'll have to dig up my complete presskit for the film sometime soon.  It's
very rare that a presskit was made for a short subject.  But I nonetheless
have one, complete with a set of black and white stills for the short.
And since it has a lot of notes for it, I'll try to post more information
if you or somebody else is interested.

As for books you might try checking with, try reading The Walt Disney Studio
Story.  It came out in the past couple or 3 years.  It's a pretty good book.
But the last time I read my copy, I remember finding an error or two.

I hope this helps you a little bit, Reid.  Let me know if you would like
more assistance.


John Heiden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Heiden

                                       Dept. of Computer Services

CSCON134@Uoft02.UTOLEDO.EDU            The University of Toledo
CSCON134@Uoft02.BITNET                 Toledo, Ohio     U.S.A.
From: tanida@seismo.CSS.GOV (Tom Tanida)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Postscript version of FAQ
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:20:08 GMT

The postscript version of the FAQ is in the incoming directory on
garfield.catt.ncsu.edu.  There are two files:

-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      system      77561 Oct 13 17:17 disfaq1.ps.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 ftp      system      38403 Oct 13 17:17 disfaq2.ps.Z

If you have a PS printer, I highly recommend this version in favor
of the straight text version.

-Tom
tanida@esosun.css.gov

Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: Jerald.Thomas@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jerald Thomas)
Subject: Disneyland crowds
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:34:29 GMT

Could someone tell me what the crowds are like at Disneyland during the
first two or three weeks of February.  I will likely be there on a weekday.

Thanks,
JT




--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: wallace@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Glenn Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Closing of the Walt Disney Story [Glenn's .sig]
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:53:42 GMT
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia

jtinkle@sparc1.sparc1.csubak.edu (j. tinkle ) writes:

>>Net: g.wallace@trl.oz.au | Help me escape this country! You can't buy Jolt
>Trade me places!  I live    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>3.5 hours from Disneyland, and about 80 minutes from Tower Records.

Heh heh, it sounds tempting, but how would you like living x,000 miles
from Disneyland or WDW? Let me tell you, it is frustrating!

Once I'm on the same continent I'll be happier (and once I've seen
Fantasmic!) - I'll also probably be near a Tower Records.

I'll still make the yearly pilgrimage to WDW every year though, on
matter WHERE I am.

>>RealTime: Glenn Wallace  | here, and they don't have Tower records, or
>>Work: Telecom Australia  | Fry's or anything! Argh.... Oh to be at WDW!
>			    ^^^^^ "fries", mate.

No, that's Fry's as in Electronics (Sunnyvale and ... Palo Alto(?))
I should have made that clearer!

>Jennifer
>Yet another college age Republican, Disney and Tiny Toons fan, Rush Limbaugh
>fan, Aussiephile, Bible-believing, PS-2 owning, Computer Science major!
      ^^ you've still               ^^ but aren't you 
      got this in your              embarrassed by this?
      .sig, which is good           :-)

Glenn

Net: g.wallace@trl.oz.au | Help me escape this country! You can't buy Jolt
RealTime: Glenn Wallace  | here, and they don't have Tower records, or
Work: Telecom Australia  | Fry's or anything! Argh.... Oh to be at WDW!
      Drift Project      | I'm on the next plane outta here!
From: sturgeal@sage.cc.purdue.edu (tony sturgeon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Please Settle This!
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:44:44 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <199210161228.AA20381@tuna.wang.com>, STEVEN.SULLIVAN@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Steven M Sullivan") writes:

> Person 1 says that the castles at Disneyland and WDW are both Cinderella's
> castles.
> 
> Person 2 says the the castle at Disneyland is Cinderella's castle and the
> castle at WDW is Sleeping Beauty's castle.
> 
> Who is correct?

First of all I am sorry I goofed up the previous post.
In response to your question, you are both wrong.  The castle at
Disneyland is Sleeping Beauty's castle, and the castle at WDW is
Cinderella's. 

Tony Sturgeon
Purdue University
From: kimp@nuge107.its.rpi.edu (Phil Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: Howard Ashman
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:06:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.lg2z9_+
Reply-To: kimp@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.

|> Howard Ashman is a lyrical genius.  His lyrics are comparible to no one
|> elses....
|> .... Of course, Ashman also has the amazing ability to write for adults and 
|> children alike, but that is not what seperates him from the others.  Nobody,
|> and I repeat, NOBODY has the inherent lyrical timing of Howard Ashman.

Well, I agree H. Ashman is a great lyricist and I would certainly miss him, but I don't think he's THAT great.  At least not great enough to be compared with great lyricists such as Ira Gershwin and Stephen Sondheim.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: wallace@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Glenn Wallace)
Subject: Re: Closing of the Walt Disney Story
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:17:55 GMT

berube_c@salem.enet.dec.com (Claude G. Berube) writes:


>I always liked going into the theater and viewing Walt's life on previous trips
>and seeing how it all started and can't imaging I won't be able to view Walt's
>history on future trips.

I enjoyed it. I also noticed the lack of people there. I felt it was a
kind of special place, for the more discerning visitor. :)

The cast member (quite old) showing people through was very
knowledgable, impressively so.

>I'll be sending my letter. 

Me too.

Glenn

Net: g.wallace@trl.oz.au | Help me escape this country! You can't buy Jolt
RealTime: Glenn Wallace  | here, and they don't have Tower records, or
Work: Telecom Australia  | Fry's or anything! Argh.... Oh to be at WDW!
      Drift Project      | I'm on the next plane outta here!
From: laut@alien.gici.com (Bill Laut)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: B&B "Work-in-Progress" on tape? Beta?
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:21:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: alien.1992Oct14.122108.1
Organization: Gull Island Consultants, Inc.


	I know this has been discussed here before, but my news server
purged out the files.

	Can anyone tell me the following, regarding "Beauty and the Beast":

	#1 - Will it be available in Beta?  (ha, ha!)
	#2 - Will the "Work-in-Progress" be issued on tape, or just LD?

	The folks at the local Disney Store in Grand Rapids hadn't heard
one way or the other, so I though I would check the *definitive* source. :)

-- 
Bill Laut			Internet:  laut@alien.gici.com
Gull Island Consultants, Inc.	Phone:     (616) 780-3321
Muskegon, MI  49440		>> "Usual disclaimers, apply within" <<
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: holliman@sounder.csc.ti.com (Ed Holliman)
Subject: backstage encounters
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:28:07 GMT

Rich's story of the sawdust sh*t reminded me of my own brief experience
backstage at WDW. It was a year or so after WDW had opened and my high school
band (Biloxi, MS) was playing in one of the Main Street Parades. We were
staging in the backstage area to your left as you enter the Main Street area.
Our band was in the company of all the Disney characters that were to be in
the parade that day. I looked over and saw the Snow White castmember smoking a
cigarette. Very interesting sight.

-- 
Ed Holliman                   Internet: holliman@sounder.csc.ti.com
CSL Speech Research Group     TI MSG:   EHOL
Texas Instruments Inc.        Voice:    (214) 995-6091
PO Box 655474  MS 238         Fax:      (214) 995-0304
From: Rich_Koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Rich Koster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Disney Branson
Distribution: world
Date: 10 Oct 92 12:42:00 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

Over in the Disney echo of Fidonet, Karen Richmond (1:123/43.1) tells me
that her local Memphis paper carried a story about Disney and Branson,
Missouri on 10/9/92.  I've asked her to post it there, and when I get
it I'll crosspost it here.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Internet: rich_koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US
    UUCP: rex!agwbbs!rich_koster
From: vibrad@os2dce06.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Halloween / Haunted Mansion Help
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:36:08 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

Big Favor to ask...

Im going to decorate my house for Halloween and try to put tombstones
in my front yard for a graveyard type scene (made of wood, of course).
Anyway, I would like to know the quotes on the the tombstones at the
Haunted Mansion in WDW so that I can put them on my tombstones and try 
to tie the life and fun of Disney with the Blood, death, and evil of 
Halloween (and I personally think it would be neat).

Thanks

Brad
From: Rich_Koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Rich Koster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Disneyana - Disney Store
Distribution: world
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:37:52 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

If you live near a Disney store, you might want to check them out this
week.  The one near us in Metairie is having a clearance sale on a lot
of the merchandise in the store.  I just picked up a 9" plush stuffed
Brer Rabbit as a souvenir of our trip to Splash Mountain -- originally
priced at $9.00 and marked down to $3.99 -- plus they still give the
10% Magic Kingdom Club discount on clearance sale stuff.  That's more
than 2 1/2 times cheaper than it had been.
 
Also in the store now, but not at clearance prices, is Aladdin stuff --
some of which we saw being worn by a select few at the Disneyana
convention.  The Aladdin logo says "Disney's Aladdin" in gold -- the
usual Disney signature plus a Middle East-style Aladdin logo.  This
can be found on black softball hats, black sweatshirts, and black
t-shirts.  It is also on single-hue tye-died t-shirts in red, reddish
purple, and blue.  Some of the clothings price tags had "Aladdin"
mispelled as "Alladin" -- I wonder if this would make it worth more
to Disneyana collectors?  (I kinda doubt it.)
 
There are Aladdin plush toys of the Genie (big and blue, with shiny
black boots and purple "satin" pants), the tiger (sorry, can't remember
his name), and Iago the parrot.
 
Aladdin china figurines are available of Aladdin himself, Princess
Jasmine, Jafar, and the Genie.
 
Aladdin buttons are also available.
 
And, of course, it has been previously noted here that Halloween
costumes from Aladdin have been out for a few weeks, even though the
movie isn't out yet.
 
Our store had the right front window set up with two child mannequins
wearing Beauty and Beast costumes.  The Beast one is especially well
done, including a multi-color, multi-pieced cloth head.  This one
might become collectible, folks, 'cause it is so cute!

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Internet: rich_koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US
    UUCP: rex!agwbbs!rich_koster
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 15:25:05 GMT
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Subject: Scary stuff for little kids (Re: Children & 3-D Movies0
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Keywords: 


Well, I'll interject my experiences here.  We took my two kids (aged 2.5
and 5 months) to Disneyland this last May.  The 5 month old did great on
everything except Pirates of the Carribbean.  He didn't care for the
drop at all.  We've since noticed that he seems to be rather suceptible
to motion sickness, so the drop may have been *quite* unpleasant to him.
Dunno.  The 5 month old enjoyed the Country Bear Jamboree the best.

As for the 2.5-year-old:

	He *loved* the line for Star Tours.  We did a baby swap (see
	below if you're not familiar with the term), and to this day he
	thinks he went on Star Tours. 

	He loved It's a Small World.

	He got a little concerned when the Casey Jr. Circus Train went
	fast toward the end of the ride.  He said he didn't like this ride.

	He loved the Country Bear Jamboree.

	He *says* that he didn't like Pirates of the Carribbean, and he
	cried a bit during the ride.  His primary concerns were: going
	fast, the dark, and the Pirates shooting at him.  Like I say, he
	says he didn't like it, but he sure talks about it a lot.  Like,
	all the time.  We bought a video while there called ``A Day at
	Disneyland'' and he calls it the ``Disneyland Pirates'' video,
	and generally seems to enjoy the Pirates and Big Thunder
	Mountain Railroad segments the most. 

	He and Grandma enjoyed Big Thunder Ranch while Mom and Dad
	enjoyed Big Thunder Mountain.

We didn't go on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. ;^)

Now, for those not familiar with the concept, the baby swap is a Disney
policy which allows the whole family, riders and non-riders, to wait in
line together.  When you get to the front, you mention that you need to
baby swap (or, the employees are likely to figure it out ;^) ).  Then a
subset of the riders (call them 'A') goes on the ride while the other
subset ('B') waits at the head of the line with the kids.  When A is done,
A takes the kids and B rides.  So you wait in line once instead of twice.
Just another example of how Disney does things right!

Geoff

-- 
Geoff Allen          \  Disneyland is going to be a place where you can't
uunet!pmafire!geoff   \  get lost or tired unless you want to.
geoff@pmafire.inel.gov \                    -- Walt Disney, 1953
From: ltw@titan.ucc.umass.edu (LEE T WARNER)
Subject: Howard Ashman
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:05:16 GMT

I was just sitting here, reading the Disney news group and listening to
the Beauty and the Beast soundtrack, when I realized that I should write 
something about Howard Ashman.  However, first I have a question:

Does anybody know If and What Alan Menkmen and/or Howard Ashman did before
Little Shop of Horrors?

Now, The statement:
  Howard Ashman is a lyrical genius.  His lyrics are comparible to no one
elses (This was drastically shown with the musical flop Newsies).  The songs
for such musicals as Beauty and The BEast, The Little Mermaid, and Little
Shop of Horrors fit their respective genres so well that most people take
them for granted.  If you have not sat down and truly listened to the B&TB
soundtrack, then I highly recommend you do.  Ashman has an amazing ability
to find the exact word that is necessary for the repective time in the music
and in the movie.  This is a rare gift that has practically been lost with
the decline of musicals.  
  Of course, Ashman also has the amazing ability to write for adults and 
children alike, but that is not what seperates him from the others.  Nobody,
and I repeat, NOBODY has the inherent lyrical timing of Howard Ashman.  It is
truly a shame that the public lost him to AIDS when he and Menkmen had just
recently begun the new generation of Disney Musicals.  He will be missed 
amongst the musical community and Disney fans.  Personally, I have never
met Howard Ashamn, but yet, somehow, I have.

Well, there you have it.  I've blurted out my two bits in front of thousands.
Any and all are welcome to reply.


--Lee Warner
  --The University of Massachusetts at Amherst.
From: Rich_Koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Rich Koster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Corporate News - Pt. 2
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:28:22 GMT
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

Reposted from a message originally posted in Fidonet's Disney echo on
Oct 7, 1992 at 15:03:00 by Ed Sterrett (1:3633/2) to All
Subject: Corporate News (cont)
 
Tokyo DL--
 
* During July, representatives from the Oriental Land Company
Advertising and their agency, DENTSU, traveled to WDW to film
portions of the Tokyo DL Splash Mountain tv commercial.  The spot was
produced at the same time as WDW's in orde to share and reduce each
company's overall costs.
 
*  Critter Country is on schedule for its Oct 1 grand opening.  The
new area includes a large fast food restaraunt, a juice bar,
relocation and retheming of the Canoe attraction, and the creation of
Splash Mountain.
 
*  Excavation began August 24 for the addition of the Swiss Family
Treehouse in Adventureland. Scheduled opening is July 1993.
 
*  Facility work began in September on the Circle Vision Theatre
conversion to "Le Visionarium", featuring "From Time to Time".  This
attraction replaces the CircleVision 360 show, "American Journeys", in
a redesigned, rethemed facility.
 
 
EDL--
 
*  On Sept 7, 5000 children from Ile-de-France who were unable to go
on vacation this summer, went to EDL at the invitation of Robert
Fitzpatrick.
 
*  On July 28, Michael Jackson took time from his "Dangerous" tour to
visit EDL.  He conducted the Marching Band and rode through the park
that evening inside the Dragon parade float.
 
 
WALT DISNEY STUDIOS--
 
*  Buena Vista Pictures has entered into an exclusive 3-yr, first look
agreement to distribute fils by Merchant Ivory Productions in the US
and Canada.  MI is known for films such as "Howard's End", "The
Bostonians, and "Room With A View".
 
*  Buena Vista Home Video will release videos of 5 John Cassavetes
films-  "A Woman Under the Influence", "Faces", "Shadows", "Killing of
a Chinese Broker", "Opening Night".
 
*  The Disney Channel has acquired exclusive rights to all 96 episodes
of the Emmy Award winning "Fraggle Rock" for the next 5 years.  TDC
has also been granted a license to air "The Muppet Movie" , "The Great
Muppet Caper", and "The Dark Crystal". Existing contracts for "Jim
Henson's Mother Goose Stories" and the animated version of "Fraggle
Rock" have been extended for a five year period.
 
 
                                  --cont--

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Internet: rich_koster@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US
    UUCP: rex!agwbbs!rich_koster