HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: Fractint 17.2: Intere
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:44:24 GMT

bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler) writes:

>If you zoom beyond the limits of Fractint's integer math algorithms, Fractint
>quietly switches over to floating-point math.  Its precision limits
>are essentially those of the Intel architecture at that point, and are
>based on its ability to store the coordinates of successive pixels (in
>'double' format) using different values.  (I'm on vacation and checking my
>mail on a laptop that doesn't have a "C" compiler, so I can't dig
>up the exact limit at the moment.)  To get around that limit,
>you would have to rewrite Fractint (including its asembler routines)
>using an alternate format - or use an Xfract port on a machine which has
>more significant digits in its floating-point format.  The latter is probably
>*far* easier.

The machine is the machine.  So I guess I will be doing some assembly.
Now is the source to fractint itself available?  I doubt if I want to
modify fractint, though I might want to "borrow" some of the video mode
code for VGAs I don't have to get a start on them.  Otherwise I will
just use the standard and VESA 16 and 256 color modes only.

I'd rather have more precision in integer anyway, especially since my
machine is a 486SX.  Maybe this would be a good reason to go ahead and
port GMP to MS-DOS.  But then again, multi-precision integers are not
that hard to code.


>PH>I also find a limit of 1000 on iterations to be rather small.

>I'm confused - Fractint's current iteration limit is 32,768 (it would have
>been 65536 had I not been stupid enough to use signed integers for a field
>that never goes negative - maybe we'll fix that someday).

I'm confused.  It doesn't go above 1000.  I just grabbed a new one about
3 days ago.

Since you said "I", I take it you are the author.  Where does the OFFICIAL
release get put up for ftp access?  I must have an old version or something.
Since the file names on ftp site very rarely give the version, I have no
clue as to which sites are up to date and which sites have just copied the
file without preserving the date.  I list the sites from archie and then
just pick the largest one that has the most recent date and on my own
continent if possible.
-- 
/************************************************************************\
| Phil Howard,  pdh@netcom.com,  KA9WGN    Spell protection?  "1(911)A1" |
| "It's not broken... it's just functionally challenged" --Phil and Pete |
\************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo)
Subject: structure in capital markets
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:14:06 GMT

Greetings all,
     I'm looking for references on fractals and struture in
the capital markets.  The FAQ file does contain one such
reference, which I'll surely hunt down.  
I've also been able to locate an article in NewScientist, "Chaos On
The Trading Floor." But does any one
have any other references on the subject?  Thanks much!

Tony Rizzo  (att.com!hogpb!rizzo)

Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: lestrade@Ra.MsState.Edu (John Patrick Lestrade)
Subject: Need a reference for [Strahle 1987]
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:56:15 GMT

On page 193 of ``Fractals Everywhere'' by Barnsley there is a reference
to Strahle (1987) on the first line of example 3.3.  However, I cannot
find the full reference for this work anywhere in the reference section.
Can someone help.  His application is exactly what I would like to do
with fractal dimension and I would like to see how he did it.
thanks and happy holidays          
patrick

--
John Patrick Lestrade        
cnesta::lestrade                       Let's try again in '96!
lestrade@ra.msstate.edu
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: Fractint 17.2: Interesting Mandelbrot Set Parameters Wanted
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:09:34 GMT

noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>If you have some interesting Mandelbrot zooms that you'd like to share,
>could you send me the parameter file(s)?  I'm especially interested in
>zooms near the limit of Fractint 17.2.  BTW, I've already downloaded

Is there any way to increase this limit?  ...or do I have to start from
scratch and write my own version of fractint?

Just how many bits of fraction does fractint use?

I also find a limit of 1000 on iterations to be rather small.  I guess I
am just used to doing these on an IBM mainframe with my own program where
I have run iterations to 262144.
-- 
/************************************************************************\
| Phil Howard,  pdh@netcom.com,  KA9WGN    Spell protection?  "1(911)A1" |
| "It's not broken... it's just functionally challenged" --Phil and Pete |
\************************************************************************/
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Fractal Universe
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:35:11 GMT
Organization: Unocal Corporation

In article <1992Dec18.175134.1@venus.iteb.serpukhov.su> kolombet@venus.iteb.serpukhov.su writes:
>Does anybody know somewhat about the term "Fractal Universe"?
>I want to obtain references to sci. papers too.


It is in Mandelbrot's book on the Fractal Geometry of Nature.
The clumping of galaxies appears to be fractal.
It is also another way of resolving Olber's paradox that the night sky
in a sufficiently old universe should be as bright as the surface of
the Sun.  Fractally distributed matter, infinite in space and time, would
solve the paradox.
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: hassink@cs.UAlberta.CA (Hassink Brian John)
Subject: Re: Fractal Universe
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:40:11 GMT

stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:

>In article <1992Dec18.175134.1@venus.iteb.serpukhov.su> kolombet@venus.iteb.serpukhov.su writes:
>>Does anybody know somewhat about the term "Fractal Universe"?
>>I want to obtain references to sci. papers too.


>It is in Mandelbrot's book on the Fractal Geometry of Nature.
>The clumping of galaxies appears to be fractal.
>It is also another way of resolving Olber's paradox that the night sky
>in a sufficiently old universe should be as bright as the surface of
>the Sun.


Well, the earth would have to be equidistant from the sun and other nearby
stars for this to be true. And if this were the case, all sorts of frightful
things would happen to us :)
From: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Fractint 17.2: Intere
Date: 3 Jan 93 09:17:00 GMT
Reply-To: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434

PH>Now is the source to fractint itself available?

Yes, and it usually can be found (in a file labelled something like FRASRC*.*)
in the same place you found Fractint.  It's in the SIMTEL20 libraries and
its mirror sites, for example.

BT>I'm confused - Fractint's current iteration limit is 32,768
PH>I'm confused.  It doesn't go above 1000.  I just grabbed a new one about
PH>3 days ago.

What can I say - that "new" version you picked up is pretty ancient.  The
current version is 17.2, and *that's* almost a year old.  (Later) AHA!
I just looked it up in the "revision history" section of the online
help, and we changed that iteration limit from 1000 way back in 1989!

In fact, that version you have is *so* ancient that it may not even include
the automatic switchover from integer to floating point math that I
mentioned while discussing Fractint's zoom limits.

PH>Since you said "I", I take it you are the author.  Where does the OFFICIAL
PH>release get put up for ftp access?  I must have an old version or something.

I am just one of what is now up to about 50 authors, although I do have
the dubious honor of "leader of the pack".  The closest thing we have to
an "official" FTP site is the SIMTEL20 archives - Tim has been uploading new
versions of Fractint up there within a few days of its debut on Compuserve.
Of course, once we upload to Compuserve and the SIMTEL20 archives, it
spreads from there by means totally out of our control.


                   Bert Tyler   (bert.tyler@satalink.com)
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #343sa . Did you expect mere proof to sway my opinion?
From: sprott@128.104.39.173 (Sprott@Juno.Physics.Wisc.Edu)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Fractal Universe
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:05:16 GMT
Reply-To: sprott@128.104.39.173 (Sprott@Juno.Physics.Wisc.Edu)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin, Plasma Physics

Mandelbrot in his classic book, "The Fractal Geometry of Nature" (Freeman,
San Francisco, 1982), talks about "Fractal Universes."  I believe the term
is "Fournier Universe."  The idea is that the matter in the Universe is
distributed in a fractal manner with approximate self-similarity.  The
fractal dimension of the matter in the Universe is the order of 1.  Spheres
centered on the Earth, for example, contain an amount of matter that is
roughly proportional to their radii, because of the way the matter is
clumped around planets, stars and galaxies.  This relates to Olbert's
paradox which is why the sky is dark at night.  If stars were distributed
uniformly in a 3-D universe, the night sky should be as bright as the day
sky.
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: roachp@wl.aecl.ca
Subject: DEC Window's Fractals?
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:39:30 GMT

Does anyone now of any sources for Vax/Dec windows fractal routines?
Peter
UnderGround Research Labs
Atomic Energy Canada Ltd.
Manitoba
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: Looking for copy of Fract
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:35:09 GMT

bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler) writes:

>Matt, the latest version of Fractint is version 17.2.  It's been
>around for awhile and should be pretty well all over the FTP and BBS
>circuit.  It's available via FTP on SIMTEL and its various mirror
>sites, for example (but I confess that I don't remember in exactly
>which directory).

Is that the 1990 version?  I found too many bugs in that one and have
been looking for a new one.  Maybe if someone has source code???????
-- 
/************************************************************************\
| Phil Howard,  pdh@netcom.com,  KA9WGN    Spell protection?  "1(911)A1" |
| "It's not broken... it's just functionally challenged" --Phil and Pete |
\************************************************************************/
From: adrian@stein.u.washington.edu (Adrian Mariano)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: looking for manz2to4 and mandzoom
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:44:32 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Keywords: animation

About a month ago, there were some posts regarding the availability of
manz2to4.zip and mandzoom.zip which were FLI animated fractal zooms.

Both were reportedly placed on wuarchive.wustl.edu in the
/pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS directory.  Neither is there now.  Neither file
shows up in wuarchive's massive ls-lR file either.  

Archie reports manz2to4.zip as being on wuarchive, and says nothing
about the other one.  

So, know where I can get either of these files, please send me email.

Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Fractint 17.2:  Interesting Mandelbrot Set Parameters Wanted
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:01:21 GMT

Hello,

If you have some interesting Mandelbrot zooms that you'd like to share,
could you send me the parameter file(s)?  I'm especially interested in
zooms near the limit of Fractint 17.2.  BTW, I've already downloaded
parameter files from various ftp sites, as well as Compuserve, so I'm
only interested in parameter files that have not yet been posted anywhere.
And for now I'm only interested in the "vanilla" Mandelbrot set.

In a few days I'll have some parameter files to share myself.

Thanks.

Jon Noring

-- 

Charter Member of the INFJ Club.

Now, if you're just dying to know what INFJ stands for, be brave, e-mail me,
and I'll send you some information.  It WILL be worth the inquiry, I think.

=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.com        | I VOTED FOR PEROT IN '92 |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   | Support UNITED WE STAND! |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101   |  caravan moves on."      |
=============================================================================
Who are you?  Read alt.psychology.personality!  That's where the action is.
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: indole@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Matthew Parker)
Subject: Re: Looking for copy of Fractint
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:35:22 GMT

Um, nevermind.  I found it myself.  [Insert apology for wasting bandwidth.]
For all interested, it's available at wuarchive.wustl.edu in /usenet/comp.
binaries.ibm.pc/volume03/fractint.

-Matt

Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: pigeons@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Pigeon Steven)
Subject: Re: Chaos and Computability
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Distribution: sci.fractals
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:23:09 GMT

In article <RPATIL.93Jan1031622@pylos.nmsu.edu> rpatil@nmsu.edu (Raj Patil) writes:
>
>Is Chaos more powerful in the Computability sence then Turing Machine. In 
>other words: A *real* Chaos (not the discrete version) behavior can be 
>represented using a finite description which can generate  a Language that 
>is not generated by the other finite representations we currently have. (reg.
>exp, CFG, TM etc). I should be actually talking about decidibility of a 
>Language rather then its generation. But as i know a little bit about Chaos
>is it not possible to find the starting point and the curve given the 
>Language. I am refering a Language to a Fractal.
>
>Based on this idea of Machines and Languages, is Chaos more powerful then
>and Turing Machine? and is *real* Chaos Comuputable by Turing Machine?
>
>Any ideas..
>
>Regards
>
>Raj Patil
>New Mexico State Univ.
>Las Cruces, NM 88003


If one could answer "Can Chaos be satis. simulted on a TM?", you'd have your
answer, assuming that Choas does process information. Some "mild" Chaos does,
but what about "wild" Chaos with no (or too few) underlying rules? I'm not
sure that we can expect the two computabilty to be even of the same kind.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
 STEVEN PIGEON, a.k.a pigeons@jsp.umontral.ca, planet Earth.
==Departement d'informatique et de Recherche Operationnelle=
              == Universite de Montreal==
From: tsornas@dec5.ulb.ac.be (Thierry Sornasse)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Fractal in social science
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:20:21 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Free University Brussels  - Belgium -  Department of Molecular Biology
Keywords: Social science

Hi networkers,

I am completly naive in the fractal field but, because I have studied siences,
somebody ask me is there any relation between fractal theory and social behaviour?
If somebody could give some references about this matter.

Thank you

Thierry Sornasse
Universite Libre de Bruxelles
BELGIUM
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
Subject: Re: Fractal sound?
Date: 3 Jan 93 04:06:20 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <93002.002334U41602@uicvm.uic.edu> U41602@uicvm.uic.edu (Rich Chong) writes:
>I heard that there is a fractal tone that sounds like a tone of
>a forever increasing pitch, but in reality doesn't.
>Is there a name to this? Can someone post a sample or a generator?
>Thanks.

I'm not sure if I'd call it a "fractal," but the so-called "Shepard
tone" is such a sound.  The sound consists of a bank of rising
tones--say, ten tones in total--each an octave apart and rising in
unison.  A given tone starts at a very low frequency and with zero
amplitude, then gradually fades in as it rises, becoming loudest around
the fifth octave and gradually fading out to zero amplitude when it
reaches the tenth octave--and then starts all over again at the lowest
frequency.

Because of the gradual fade-in/fade-out, the starting and ending points
of an individual tone are not heard, and the ear tends to focus on the
tones pitched around the fifth octave, hearing them as a group of
"endlessly" rising tones.

Psychologist Roger Shepard discovered the principle behind these tones,
while Jean-Claude Risset developed the "endless glissando" I've just
described.  I have a CSOUND instrument which produces these tones, if
anyone is interested and has CSOUND.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: lisa@super.org (Lisa A Bloomer)
Subject: Request:  books
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:24:21 GMT

Hi everyone,

I'm writing an undergraduate thesis on fractal geometry,
and I was hoping someone could point me to some good
resources.  

Thanks a million,

Lisa Bloomer
lisa@super.org
Newsgroups: sci.fractals
From: emjay@dorsai.com (Michael J. Lavery)
Subject: Mandella/Fractint
Summary: Mandella reading fractinit files
Keywords: Mandella Fractinit parameters
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy +1.718.729.5018
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:55:22 GMT

	The version notes make reference to the ability of
Mandella to read Fractint parameter files.  However, it seems
that everyway that I try to read in a parameter, I get an error.
	The Documentation other than the passing references does
not provide any other information.
	Does anyone know what format it is necessary to have the
.par file so that Mandella can read it?
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: Useful material solves problem
Keywords: polyacrylamide
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:44:12 GMT
Distribution: pnw



I am not a materials scientist, but I regularly read this group with interest. 
I just found an interesting material that solved an awkward problem for me. 
To support a large Christmas tree, I built a wood stand that included a plastic
water pot that was intended to be nailed between tree butt and wooden supports.
It was supposed  to be self-sealing, but mine wasn't quite. Drip, drip, drip.

What to do? Large heavy tree is already erected on a stand that can't be removed
non-destructively. No direct access to either side of the leak. It's not real 
easy to even drain the pot. Drip, drip, drip.

Spoke with a garden shop in Beaverton that sets up trees for many local 
merchants. This guy is to Christmas tree stands as Col. Sanders is to chicken. 
Without hesitation, he recommended a product called Water Grabber, a little 
packet of granules. The package says "A water retention additive for 
plants", "Stores water", and "contains polyacrylamide".

I added a packet to the water in the pan, mixed another packet with about 
1 pt of water, and poured that in. It soon changed the liquid to a wet 
gel.

Result: in 30 minutes, the leak stopped. It's been dry ever since, 
(over a week) even when there is free liquid in the pan.

I'm pleased with this solution (pun inadvertent). Hope someone else can
benefit from this experience.

I would not recommend it for leaking aquariums.
Newsgroups: sci.materials
From: chancy@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Venkatraman Chandrasekaran)
Subject: Re: Superconductors and Piezoelectrics
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:24:52 GMT


NbN is a superconductor with a Tc of 16K.

- chandra
From: cris@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Cristiano Morgante)
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: Hazardous Waste Newsgroup
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:36:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

I would support a new newsgroup which discusses the problems and
solutions concerning hazardous waste.

Is there a newsgroup which handles this type of information ?

thanks 

cris
From: sushilb@elm.circa.ufl.edu (Sushil Bharatan)
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: TEM samples
Keywords: sapphire,TEM
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:46:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

I require information on preparation of cross-sectional TEM samples
of a semi-conductor material deposited on 0001 sapphire substrate.
I am currently using a dicing saw for cutting strips that are about
15 mils in width, but extensive cracking and chipping occur.
Any information on dicing saw blade manufacturers and alternative
methods is welcome.

Thanks,
Sushil Bharatan
Dept. of Materials Science and Engineering,
University of Florida.

email:sushilb@elm.circa.ufl
From: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu ( )
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: Re: Minority Carrier Diffusion length
Date: 24 Dec 1992 14:49:48 GMT
Organization: Department of EECE, Marquette University
Reply-To: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsf.csd.mu.edu

In article <1992Dec18.060633.8921@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>, dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>
>Does anyone know of any references that discuss diffusion length
>in SemiInsulators?
------------------------------------------

	Diffusion length will depend on the particular types of material
	being used and often this quantity is determined experimentally
	for the SUT. For a general treatment and lots of nice discussions
	consult Borg and Dienes, "An Introduction to Solid State Diffusion,"
	AP, New York, 1988. Also David Burn's "Solid State Physics" does
	some useful discussions.

	-Anis.
From: lm00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Louise B. McFeaters)
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: Steel BBoard?
Date: 3 Jan 93 07:07:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EfFlpNC00Uh_Q1R=0w
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Does anyone know whether a bulletin board exists, specifically for the
steel (or perhaps ferrous would be good enough) industry? If so, please
respond. And thanks.

Louise
Xref: sparky sci.materials:1070 sci.chem:5628
Newsgroups: sci.materials,sci.chem
Subject: Re: SEM of lithium?
From: mt_wilson@fencer.dsto.gov.au (Alan Wilson)
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:14:01 CST
Organization: DSTO, ARL, Australia

In article <BznzK5.JFH@creare.com>, kwg@creare.com (Kent Goeking) writes:
> 
> 
>    I would like to hear if anyone has any experience in preparing moisture
> sensitive samples for SEM examination.  In particular I would like to
> examine the interface between a piece of lithium...

I have looked at Li metal in a SEM by scraping the surface while the sample
is just out of the air lock and then quickly inserting it - probably not for
you.  I have also thought of preparing the sample under dry nitrogen and 
transferring under nitrogen into the SEM.

Alan Wilson, mt_wilson@fencer.dsto.gov.au
From: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu ( )
Newsgroups: sci.materials
Subject: Re: TEM samples
Date: 24 Dec 1992 14:42:10 GMT
Organization: Department of EECE, Marquette University
Distribution: usa,world
Reply-To: 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsf.csd.mu.edu


>               Usually, for brittle materials, you need to use what is called
>ion-mill to thin the sample down to your desired thickness, which is less than
>10 micron I think.
>		The ion-mill is a ion bombardment system.  Argon atoms are
>ionized and accelerated to the sample, therefore kicking off the materials very
>slowly.
>		Hope this helps.
>
>J. Yuan
---------------------------------------------------

	Actually ion-milling is the last step of the thinning process. Also, 
	once a sample has been properly thinned and used and then stored for 
	a while, one has to ion-mill it again before reusing, that way get 
	rid of the oxides and/or dirts that have accumulated during storage.

	However, inevitably one has to go through a sequence of polishing
	processes before s/he can put the sample in the ion-mill.


	-Anis.