HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: england@milton.u.washington.edu (England)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Summary: Steve 'Nonsense' Dyer
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:05:37 GMT

I see that Steve's at it again, although in a different group this time.

I wonder how many people he'll hurt with his pointedly one-sided remarks
and not-so-subtle put downs in this group before he feels satisfied
enough to move on to the next group?
From: tamara@rodan.UU.NET (Tamara S. Bowman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat! I love sugar!
Date: 12 Aug 1992 19:06:57 -0400
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1992Aug12.164113.21981@csrd.uiuc.edu> saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen) writes:
>chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
>
>
>Yes, this is probably the way to go (I was able to drop the meat, salt & fish
>in less graphical ways). However, I have another somewhat related 
>question about arteries and eating fat. 
>
>Is it so that every meal might contribute to the fat in the arteries and 
>do also *slim* people have this problem? I.e. can you be slim *and* get 
>clogged arteries? I have often thought about this, since people around me 
>(in my office) eat hamburgers and junk food and still stay slim. Do their 
>arteries also clog or not? Or is it a very long term thing?
>
>thanks,
>Sirpa Saarinen
>saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu

Your arteries still clog it just may take longer.  My grandfather who
is still a very slender man had quadruple bypass about 10 years ago 
when he was 75.  He is a very active man, jogs every morning for about
3 miles and works outdoors most of the time.  He's not a vegetarian and
years of vegetables flavored with pork fat, biscuits made with lard and
a ton of other traditional southern fat laden eating habits finally
got him.  Being thin isn't a panacea to health ills.  He had high
blood pressure for years before the bypass as well.  Not something I'd
want to gamble with, animal fat has got to be one of the nastiest things
for your body.
 
Tamara Bowman		tamara@uunet.uu.net

"Drat these computers, they're so naughty and complex I could just
 pinch them"  Marvin The Martian from Looney Tunes
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Subject: VEGAN: Basic (but delicious) Muffins
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:19:58 GMT

From:  The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book

Ingredients:
1 1/2 cup whole wheat pastry flour
1 1/2 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. cinnamon (optional - but makes it taste o so good!)

3 Tbsp margerine (room temperature) or oil
3 Tbsp. fruit source (or any liquid sweetener) or light molasses
1 "egg" (egg replacer)
1/2 cup raisins (optional - I left them out and used walnuts)
3/4 fruit juice (I used apple)

1/2 cup chopped nuts (optional)

Preheat oven to 375 degrees.  Grease a 12-cup muffin tin.  Double the
recipe size if your muffin tins are of the large variety.

Sift the dry ingredients together.  Cream the margerine and sweetener
(or oil).  Beat in the "egg" and add the raisins (if used) and
fruitjuice.  Stir the dry ingredients into the liquid, mixing enough
to moisten.  Fold in the nuts.  Spoon into the muffin tin.

Bake 10 - 14 minutes, or until the center springs back when pressed.
If you use fruitsource, or any light sweetener, and pastry flour
ground from white wheat, the muffins will be quite pale.  

Variations:

Orange-Apricot Muffins -
Omit the cinnamon and substitute orange juice for the juice.  Use 1/2
cup chopped dried apricots instead of raisins - if they are hard,
steam or soak them in hot water before chopping them.

Fresh Fruit Muffins -
Fold 1/2 cup chopped fresh fruit into the basic batter.  Vary the
spices:  with apples, use cinnamon; with peaches, nutmeg is just
right; ginger complements pears very nicely.  If the fruit is not very
sweet, increase sweetener by a tablespoon or so.

Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott            "We suggest people take their Food Pyramids,
                            cut off the top and make a Healthy Eating
tara@socrates.umd.edu         Trapezoid."  -Neal Barnard, M.D.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: popcorn@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Valerie Mates)
Subject: Re: Recipe Request:  Hummus
Organization: GREX Public Access Unix +1 313 761 3000
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:13:12 GMT

In article <Bt72G6.7yy@hpbs654.boi.hp.com> kmarko@hpbs654.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:
>I've scoured a couple cookbooks for a hummus recipe, and have a pretty
>good basic recipe.  I was just curious if anyone had one they were
>particularly fond of and could post.  Any other sandwich/pita spread
>ideas would be welcome as well.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Kurt Marko
>

Here's my favorite.  I generally don't measure any of the ingredients,
so it comes out different every time.  The recipe started out with added
oil and a lot more tahini; this version is much lower in fat and just as
yummy.

1 1/2 cups cooked chickpeas (aka garbanzo beans)
big globby tablespoon of tahini (if your tahini is runny, use more)
water, possibly some of the water left from cooking the chickpeas
2 to 6 cloves of garlic, depending.
juice of 1 lemon  (strong hummus is caused by lotsa lemon, not garlic)

Pulverize the garlic in a blender or food processor.  Scrape down sides
and add chickpeas.  Pulverize.  Add tahini, lemon juice and any herbs or
other additions.  Pulverize.  Gradually add enough water 'til you like
the consistency of your hummus.  I usually make hummus that's thick
and dry if I'm going to pack it in pita pockets and use it as travel food,
or gloopier hummus if it's going to be dip at a party.

Variations:
 * add one or several of the following: parsley, cumin, mint, basil.
 * adding a jalapeno along with the garlic is an interesting experiment.
 * reserve some chickpeas, then use them to decorate the top of the finished
   hummus.  This is especially fun if you also use paprika and/or dill to
   make pictures on top.  Traditional hummus, they say, generally has whole
   chick peas, patterns of paprika, and some oil drizzled on the top.
   Decorating hummus is especially fun with a friend or two.

Happy hummusing!  :)
-- 
----------
Valerie Mates
popcorn@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Carrot Addiction !
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:38:18 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

pradeep@bkd.b11.ingr.com (Pradeep Deshpande) writes:


>	I heard this on "All things considered" on NPR. The show hostess was
>interviewing the editor of BJA ( British journal of Addiction ). It claimed
>that two British subjects have been known to have addiction to Carrots. Yes,
>the vegetable Carrot. Apparently these chaps used to consume  kilos of carrots 
>a day. Though, I don't quite remember the details of the effect but one thing
>they discussed was the skin of the individuals becoming orange. 

 
Without more information, calling this an "ADDICTION" seems
to be a sensationalist exaggeration.  Are we talking about
a chemical substance abuse (i.e., maladaptive behaviour 
associated with regular use of the substance) via carrots,
a substance that biochemically directly acts upon the central 
nervous system to modify mood or behaviour?
 
Traditional usage reserved the term "ADDICTION" for
physiological dependence, as indicted by physiological
withdrawal symptoms if the substance were to be
discontinued.  "dependence" signified psychological
reliance.  Regrettably, more recent terms like "DRUG
DEPENDENCE" has come to denote both psychological and
physiological dependence.  The term "DRUG ABUSE" simply
refers to excessive consumption of a drug whether or not an
individual is truly "drug dependent"
 
Given the above terminological usages, maybe we should call
this a case of "CARROT ABUSE"  :-).  More accurately,
however, the DSM-IIIr would simply designate such a food
use disorder, should there be a psychological component
here at issue, simply as an "ATYPICAL EATING DISORDER".
But possibly all that we are really dealing with are simply
two food faddists who really "dig" their carrots.  ;-)
 
                                   ted
From: deannab@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Deanna Bergstrom)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:54:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Veggie in Oxford...
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg

I live in California, and recently visited England for 10 days on 
business, including Oxford.  I found that eating veggie was really
much easier than in the US, that almost everywhere I ate had 
specifically vegetarian menu items.  Even the fast-food places
(Burger King, for ex.) had veggie burgers, which I have yet to
find in too many places in California.

And of course there are many Indian restaurants, which generally
have a good veggie selection.

I don't know about the dining halls at Oxford but I had several
delicious veggie meals in restaurants there.

As always, if you're lacto- or ovo-lacto, it'll be easier than
for a vegan.

Deanna
deannab@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: Veggie Restaurants in Copenhagen?
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:48:35 GMT

In article <KJL.92Aug10083922@minotaur.atex.kodak.com> kjl@atex.kodak.com writes:
>Anybody know of any places where a Vegan can munch in Copenhagen?
>
Aggh! The Danes are the pits when it comes to Vegan food! I worked there
for a while. They usually have salads for Sunday Lunch. Apart from 99%
of the salads being adulterated with corpses they actually had one salad
that consisted of nothing but raw mince and onions:-<

Here is what I could find in the 1991 Vegetarian travel guide, published by
the Vegetarian Society UK.

Doubtless some of these places will have closed down by now, others probably
won't have anything suitable for vegans. May I remind *********all*********
vegetarians and vegans that this book works by user input, and that doesn't
mean emailing me if a restaraunt has closed down! The address of the UK
Vegetarian Society is in the FAQ.

Beerola
Scala, Axeltorv, 1609
Open 10am-Midnight

Det Gronne Kokken
Larsbjornstradde 10 3rd, 1454K
Tel: 33 12 70 68
Vegetarian Propietor. Open 12 noon to 10pm. Closed Sunday.

Gennem Porten
Griffenfeldsgade 7A, 2200

Greens
Gronnegade 12-14, 1107K
Tel: 33 15 16 90
Open 11.30am to 9pm. Closed Sundays.

Greens Takeaway
Pistolstrade 10, 1102
Tel: 33 32 79 80
Mon-Fri 11am-6.30pm

Greenworld
Blagardsgade 4, 1, 2200N
Tel: 31 35 36 11
Vegan restaurant. Open 5pm to 10pm each day.

King Tut's Corner
Blagards Plads 10, DK-2200
'Restaurant  with  Middle  Eastern  veggie  hot  and  cold  table  buffet  -
extremely  delicious  and  tasty with lots of choice. The restaurant is not
totally vegetarian. Belly dancers on Friday and Saturday nights!'

Scala Shopping Maill
Centre of Copenhagen
'Shopping mall full of international snack bars including a vegetarian
bar. It's in the centre of Copenhagen - well worth visiting!'

Taj Indian Restaurant
Vesterbrogade 38, 1620 V
Tl: 31 22 55 86 / 31 22 72 77
Indian restaurant using fresh ingredients. Specialities include home
made cheeses. Open 12 noon to 11.30pm.

Urtehuset
Osterbrogade 35, DK-2100
Tel: 31 386 098
'An excellent health food shop with ready-made veggie burgers etc for sale'

Urtekremmerens Saftbar
Larsbjornsstrade 18, 1454K
Tel: 33 14 50 75
Small vegetarian snack bar. Open 10am to 5.30pm. Monday to Friday, 10am to 
1pm Saturday.


-- 
Michael Traub
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:55:43 GMT

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:


>When Steve gives you the truth, you holler for references. Yet when
>some layperson, who doesn't have any idea of what they are talking
>about makes a sensational claim, you are quick to believe.

>I just don't understand.

That's obvious.

>This colon cleansing stuff has been around for 100 years, and there
>is no data anywhere to show there is any merit to it. In fact, this
>same topic was recently discussed in detail on sci.med, and not one
>single health-care professional defended it. 

Are these the same health care professionals that brought us
silicone implants for breasts, thalidomide, breast removal to
prevent cancer, and other such goodies?  Not to mention the
"normal" (scientifically validated) 15% of iatragenic, i.e.,
physician-caused illnesses?  Not to mention the ones who can't
quite seem to figure out what's happening with the AIDS virus --
despite all those wonderful studies PROVING what now no longer
appears to be the case.  Naturopaths and other alternative
practitioners were advocating high-fibre, low-fat diets to
prevent cancer (for example) years ago.  Now, all  of a sudden
the American Cancer Society has caught on and it's "scientific".
I
t's incredible that anyone with any education believes colon
>cleansing and other such nonsense contributes to good health.
>It's scares me to realize how gullible people are concerning
>matters of personal health. No wonder the quack industry is
>booming, and you are its victims.

No, actually we'd prefer to wait until we get cancer, heart
disease, and various degenerative diseases, so that we can
provide more guinea pigs for the medical/pharmaceutical
industry.  Makes a lot more sense. 

 It's incredible to me
that supposedly "educated" people can be so closed-minded --
but that's all right.  I'm used to it.  I once spent 3 months
in hospital recovering from an iatragenic disease that my doctor
(one of the top specialists in the city)
claimed was "impossible".  (Fortunately another doctor disagreed
with him.  Just goes to show you can't believe everything you hear
from the "health professionals".) 

I'll put my health and my money in the hands of people who have
proven they can help me, who have a positive track record and who,
unlike many in the scientific establishment, understand the dictum
"First, do no harm".

An

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: hpiirai@cs.joensuu.fi (Heikki Piirainen)
Subject: E1404 etc. (Re: LIST OF INGREDIENTS DERIVED FROM ANIMALS)
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:28:57 GMT

Does anybody know anything about those E numbers they use over
here to identify some ingredients? E1404 (or something like
that) is gelatin; are there others to be aware of?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: pradeep@bkd.b11.ingr.com (Pradeep Deshpande)
Subject: Carrot Addiction !
Reply-To: pradeep@bkd.b11.ingr.com
Organization: ISGS, Intergraph Corporation. Huntsville, AL-35894.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:24:16 GMT


	I heard this on "All things considered" on NPR. The show hostess was
interviewing the editor of BJA ( British journal of Addiction ). It claimed
that two British subjects have been known to have addiction to Carrots. Yes,
the vegetable Carrot. Apparently these chaps used to consume  kilos of carrots 
a day. Though, I don't quite remember the details of the effect but one thing
they discussed was the skin of the individuals becoming orange. 

-- 
-Pradeep.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pradeep Deshpande			    |"The only tyrant I accept in 
Intergraph Corporation. Huntsville, Alabama |this world is the 'still small
INTERNET: pradeep@bkd.b11.ingr.com	    |voice' within me."
UUNET   : ...uunet!ingr!b11!bkd!pradeep	    |	-Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: Rich & Michael
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 08:35:56 GMT

In article <BtBDvn.AnE@vcd.hp.com> angelab@vcd.hp.com (Angela Byington) writes:
>I would hope that we are all mature enough to ignore the occasional
>trouble maker - without encouragement they usually go away.  Unfortunately,
>the people on this group are obviously not mature enough to have the
>tolerance of the diversity of opinion here to make it a pleasant
>place to be.  Even if the only people who ever passed through here were
>already vegetarian, I can't imagine them wanting to stay. 

By the same token these trouble makers are spreading malicious lies
about vegetarianism which is designed to mislead the uninformed
reader. As I stated in a previous article perhaps a regular rec.food.veg
health warning will solve this problem.


-- 
Michael Traub
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason)
Subject: Indian cookbooks
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:38:55 GMT

Since becoming vegetarian, my cooking skills have certainly grown.  My
favourite type of food, without a doubt, is Indian.  Can anyone 
recommend a really good Indian cookbook.  I saw one recently
in Toronto called _Vegetarian Indian Cooking_ but an Indian friend
of mine said it wasn't so great.  I can only afford one cookbook per
year and this will be it...

peace,


Peter

-- 
----------------------------------
Peter Mason
masonp@nukie.physics.mcmaster.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Dr. Bronner
From: sj@silma.com (Suzanne)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:30:25 GMT
Organization: Silma Inc

Dr. Bronner is a concentration camp survivor.
He went insane there.

This info is from my uncle who used to run a natural
foods store and had occasion to deal with Dr. Bronner.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:09:33 GMT

In article <matt.714333448@centerline.com> matt@centerline.com (Matt Landau) writes:
>Welcome to the ranks of the "Rich-lovers", Steve.  (I believe that's
>what Michael called me the last time I presumed to disagree with him
>on the role of tolerance in rec.food.veg :-)  Gee, and I'm not even
>a meat-eater :-)

In email to me you said about Mr. Young:

-Lighten up.  Rich consistently posts carefully considered, reasonably 
-worded, mostly non-inflamatory articles, and consistently refrains from 
-sinking into ad hominem arguments and personal attacks that so often
-characterize other postings in rec.food.veg, including yours.

From  that  remark  I  judge you must be a "Rich-lover". Anyone that thinks
that  Rich's  copying of articles from magazines are "carefully considered,
reasonably  worded"  articles  must either have a deep devotion towards the
man  or  be so foolish as to think the articles that he posts from "Science
News"  represent  the  forefront  of  current medical/ scientific knowledge
about vegetarianism/ veganism.

You  are  also  blind  enough  to  think  that Mr. Young does not resort to
"ad-hominem  arguments  and personal attacks and that I do" though this has
been  a  trademark  of  his  postings over the years. As another person who
emailed  me  recently  mentioned  "He  says  inflammatory  things in a very
polite  way".  You also obviously haven't read the man's lunatic ravings in
talk.politics.animals or in alt.activism.

Another   thing  you  totally  fail  to  consider  is  the  way  Mr.  Young
continually  repeats  himself,  ignoring the responses which place him in a
corner.  As  an emailer said to me: "He simply ignores what he doesn't want
to  hear,  brings  up  the  same  tired canards, and gets incensed when you
flame him for wasting our time."

When forced into a corner he often resorts to personal attacks in an
attempt to stifle discussion:

Article <1992Aug19.121514.16012@pixel.kodak.com>
-This is one of the more inane responses I've seen here.

Anyway  it  doesn't  matter  anymore.  I  shall  leave  you  all with these
peoples'  nonsense  to brighten your day. By the time they get through with
rec.food.veg  they  will  likely  have  convinced newcomers to start eating
meat  again  and  cause almost everyone else to unsubscribe. To think there
are  vegetarians  like  yourself who actually support this kind of nonsense
is even more disheartening.

Farewell.


-- 
Michael Traub
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:38:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug22.043831.8442
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug22.002632.494@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>Or perhaps take a look at a book on gastroenterology
>>which will have "digested" many of these.
>
>I may have mentioned this before but anyway; my father is a highly
>regarded specialist physician. He specialises in gastroenterology.
>He also has had 18 inches of his intestine cut out due to
>diverticulitis which he failed to diagnose. So much for western
>medicine. So much for gastroenterology.
>
Well, YOU should have more respect for your father.  On the other hand,
I would say he had a fool for a patient.  It certainly doesn't say anything
about western medicine or gastroenterology.

Diverticulitis may be minimised by a high-fiber diet (epidemiological
studies tell us this) and regular exercise.  However, there is also the
matter of genetic predisposition.  Some people are going to get diverticulitis
no matter what.  Needless to say, there is no reason to think that one of
these "colon cleansing" regimens is going to help such a person.  It's as
likely that they could aggravate the syndrome.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Nutrisweet not vegan??
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 17:30:20 GMT

From: rovel@eng.umd.edu (Amy L. Rovelstad) writes:
[]
>I just heard from someone that Nutrisweet(TM) uses some milk byproduct, and
>is therefore not vegan.  Has anyone else heard this?
>
>Amy


The ingredients on my EQUAL packet says:

Dextrose with maltodextrin, aspartame (NutraSweet brand).  Oops, defining
a word using the word in the definition. Sorry.

Chris
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cheese
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:18:02 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) wrote:
>> Elisabeth Freeman writes:
>> Does anyone know of anything with which to flavour tofu so it tastes
>> more like cheese?  Or, if that's impossible, to give it a flavour that
>> would be good for making lasagne with tofu?
> Have you tried soycheese?

Urggghhh...  have you tried soap?  I'm not sure I could tell the
difference...  I think products like this and soymilk are what give
vegetarians the reputation of being self-flagellating loonies.  The fact
that they have been technically feasible for a few thousand years and no
culture has ever adopted them as an item of diet before now ought to tell
you something...

There are some products that have the right sort of tanginess, though they
don't pretend to be cheese; you can get marinaded or smoked tofu from most
wholefood shops here, and they work fine in lasagna.  So does ordinary tofu
with the flavour supplied from elsewhere, like olives, mushrooms or Chinese
fermented beans.  There's nothing that will supply the texture of
mozzarella except mozzarella itself; some things you just have to do
without.

Someone asked a rather tougher question a couple of days ago: what sort of
sauce would you use on lasagna if you couldn't tolerate tomatoes or other
nightshades?  I haven't tried this, but I'd go for a peanut-based sauce
like that used for satays in South-East Asia.  In places where they're
available, tamarillos (tree tomatoes) might work, but the result will be
much more acid than a tomato-based lasagna.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp