HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Re: Scientific Basis for Homeopathy?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:08:30 GMT

In article <BSIMON.93Jan26072711@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@stsci.edu
 (Bernie Simon) writes:

>I think you are mistaken about some of the aspects of homeopathic
>provings. The following description of how a homeopathic proving is
>performed is taken from J.T. Kent's "Lectures on Homeopathic

Unfortunately, that is not the reference you provided
when asked about the basis for your beliefs in
homeopathy.  How many times are we going to switch
references when I point out a potential discrepancy?
  

>illness for a month before the proving begins. Then they are given a
>homeopathic medicine, usually in the 30C dilution, to take dissolved

And according to your reference, they usually know what the 
medicine is and thus they may be more likely to report
an expected symptom. 


>prexisting symptom, is listed along with the number of persons
>reporting the symptom. Materia medicas pay most attention to symptoms
>reported by the majority of the provers. However, some also list

How many provers typically are involved in a given
proving, and how many typically report a given symptom?

The books you quoted state that the proper homeopathic
remedy will * ALWAYS * work and that treatment failures
are * ALWAYS * due to incorrect prescriptions.  This
is quite a bold statement -- I know of no allopathic
treatment which works 100% of the time.  However, I 
wonder why the correct homeopathic treatment will work
100% of the time if less than 100% of the provers 
initially experienced the symptom.

>only improvement I could come up with is to have some of the provers
>take a placebo.

Yes, you could not be more right here.  This would 
be a tremendous improvement in validity, and it would not
cost an unreasonable amount to do (your previous argument
against controlled studies in homeopathy).  So why
hasn't it been done?

-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com
From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Immunisation
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:58:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: coyoacan.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan21.230223.3376@trl.oz.au>, farrell@rhea.trl.oz.au (Peter Farrell) writes:
> However I was recently advised by 
> friends to consider immunising (or not) and they recommended two books.
> 1. A Shot in the Dark by Harris Coulter and Barbara Low Fisher
> 2. Vaccination Social Violence and Criminality by Harris Coulter
> I would be interested in views and alternative views.

Comment about the books - Proverbial grain of salt. If you see some claim
that particularly convinces you, cross-check it with another reference.

Comments on vaccinations - There are several vaccinations of interest,
and if you decide against them, you should decide on each one individually.
The first three are childhood-only vaccinations.

DTP - Diptheria-tetanus-pertussis. Each of these are potentially lethal
      diseases at all ages.
Measles, Mumps and Rubella - THe "childhood" diseases. They are usually
      not a big deal in children, but complications are not unknown. They
      tend to have severe complications in adults. In the U.S., these
      diseases are now rare enough that a child stands a good chance of
      reaching puberty without being exposed - thus vaccination is
      recommended by the medical profession.
TOPV - Polio. This is a sufficiently horrible disease that I can't think
      of why you would not want to be vaccinated.
Tetanus & diptheria - Only routine adult vaccination that I know of. If
      you're sure you aren't going to be exposed, you might forgo the
      vaccination. But both diseases are potentially lethal, and by the
      time you find out, it's too late.

Other vaccinations that you probably won't see in the U.S.:
    smallpox, influenza, rabies, cholera, typhoid, plague, yellow fever.
Unless you are planning travel in exposed areas, these vaccines are not
terribly useful.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Analysis of Homeopathy Literature
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan21074532@elvis.stsci.edu>
	<1993Jan21.134208.6588@spdcc.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:32:35 GMT

I posted the list of controlled studies of homeopathy at the request
of Dr. Kaplan. If it's considered improper to post a citation on the
net without first reading it, please let me know and I will refrain
from doing so in the future. My statement that the majority of
controlled studies of homeopathy support its effectiveness is based on
the statements in the BMJ survey. I have defended my interpretation of
this survey recently, so there is no point in repeating it here. I
invite all interested persons to read the survey themselves to see if
I have misrepresented it. You're quite right that this prolonged
discussion of the clinical evidence has grown tedious. I suppose it
just shows what an incredibly stubborn person I am to have dragged out
the argument for so long on sci.med and here. I would like to discuss
other aspects of homeopathy and will gladly drop conversation on this
topic if others will also.

"Clinical trials of homoeopathy.", Kleijnen, Jos; Knipschild, Paul; ter
Riet, Gerben; British Medical Journal, Feb 9, 1991 v302 n6772 p516(8).
--
Bernie Simon 		What we know comes to so little
(bsimon@stsci.edu)	And what we presume is so much  -- Neruda
		

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: mtymp15@staff.tc.umn.edu (David Hutton)
Subject: Garlic Gelcaps
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:27:02 GMT

What exactly is garlic supposed to do for your health?


-- 
The movement of the Tao consists in Returning.        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The use of the Tao consists in softness.              -mtymp15@staff.tc.umn.edu-
All things under heaven are born of the corporeal;    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The corporeal is born of the Incorporeal.           
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:27:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.085034.28988@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
 (Michael Traub) writes:

>My wife has been suffering from back pains recently and I urged her to
>see her M.D. He had a look at her back but said he wasn't able to
>do anything and referred her to a chiropractor.

What kind of M.D. did she go to?  Orthopedic surgeon?  Internist?
Family practitioner?  I suspect if she visited a physical
medicine & rehabilitation specialist (a physiatrist) and
got a prescription for a back exercise program to be 
demonstrated by a physical therapist, she would become
less dependent upon chiropractors in the long run.

-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  
Xref: sparky misc.education:6124 misc.kids:33343 sci.edu:1476
From: chenowet@rd1632.Dayton.NCR.COM (Steve Chenoweth)
Newsgroups: misc.education,misc.kids,sci.edu
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:09:57 GMT
Reply-To: chenowet@rd1632.Dayton.NCR.com (Steve Chenoweth)
Organization: NCR Technology & Development, Dayton, Ohio

In article <1993Jan20.215406.18366@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
> ...
>I don't really like the label "gifted".  One reason is because I don't
>like the unspoken implication that the _other_ children didn't get "gifts".
>In the 60's? 70's?, in New York State, certain children were "accelerated".  
>This term didn't bother me as much, I guess, maybe because it didn't
>mean that the other children couldn't do things, just that certain ones were
>capable of learning certain subjects faster.  I know I'm just arguing
>symantics, but I still don't like "gifted" (that having been said, though,
>I'll use it below :-).
> ...
>I believe that the powers of expectation are strong, and that the children
>in non-gifted classes will under-perform, and that the teachers of the 
>non-gifted classes will under-expect (what's the name for those two
>well-documented syndromes?..)
>

Did anyone catch the ABC News Special "Common Miracles: The New American
Revolution in Learning" last Saturday, 1/23/93?  The show came across as
much in favor of these views.

I liked the show's idea that teachers must really work to discover what's
special in every kid and try to build on that.  I think this is a part
of the point Staffan was making in the article, above.  I wonder if there's
been research going on here -- what kinds of new tools are teachers
getting to help identify a wide range of unique abilities in kids?

The ABC news show also was preachy about issues where the jury's still out,
however.  It was very pro mainstreaming, which has been debated at length
in some of these newsgroups.  Staffan has a sort of micro-debate with himself
about it, above.  I was surprised to hear on the show how everyone
who is progressive now agrees that all tracking is a bad thing for both the
average and exceptional kids.

As other authors in these groups have pointed out, the situation remains
unresolved for exceptionally fast learners in our school systems.  When you
have a child like some of those who've been mentioned, reading at 2 yrs., etc.,
and you show up four years later at their first grade classroom and see 30
kids with a teacher saying, "This is a b" to them, suddenly you know
how it's all going to go.  No amount of theory about virtues of mainstreaming
can resolve that feeling in the pit of your stomach.  Those of us who have
been through this tend to be less in favor of mainstreaming than we used to be.

Sudden vision:  How would it work if we tried to mainstream our next
generation of professional musicians all the way through school.  Could we
expect them still to be world class?  This isn't a perfect analogy, but it's
a worthwhile analogy, I think.



-- 
Steve.Chenoweth@Dayton.NCR.com
From: pmgt1425@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: School Systems
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:19:10 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

Would somebody please tell me something about the school systems at
Spokane, WA, and Tulsa, OK?  I may have to move to one of these
two cities, and the education of my children, age 8 and 10, is my
major concern.  They both play violin, read well, and work on
some geometry and algebra.  Your inputs are greatly appreciated.
From: SKH4161@MVS.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Gre scores
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:04:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory

In article <1993Jan27.072142.6847@netcom.com>,
johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu) writes:

>In article <CEDMAN.93Jan26163825@capitalist.princeton.edu> cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>>It has been my impression as well that the analytical score is widely
>>ignored.  But I do wonder why that is so.  At least superficially it
>>would seem to me that this score would come closest to measuring an
>>important inate ability ie. to reason logically quickly and
>>accurately, while the verbal test essentially only measures vocabulary
>>which anybody can acquire by reading and the quantitative test doesn't
>>touch on anything which any reasonably awake eighth grader even in an
>>american high school wouldn't have learned regardless of talent.  Does
>>anybody know ?

The GRE Quantitative measure appears to be a little easier than
the SAT Math, which is a sad commentary on the amount of math
learned by the average college student.  It even has a more
"vocational" look (pie charts and sales graphs), instead of the
more IQ-test like questions which pop up on the SAT Math.  About
2% of GRE test-takers get the top scaled score of 800 on it.

The Analytical measure, which became official only about ten
years ago (the other two scales are over thirty years old),
has always been a bit shakier than the other two measures in
terms of reliability and susceptibility to coaching.  Still,
the puzzle questions which seem to dominate the GRE Analytical
measure comprises all of the questions on half of the Law SAT
(the LSAT version is a little harder).  The validity correlations
of the Analytical are about the same as Q or V alone.
>
>The verbal portion of the SAT/GRE measure how much reading a student has
>done in the past by testing the student's vocabulary to the limits.

I suppose it's not politically correct to say so, but in the
statistical sense, it also measures your genes, as well as your
economic background (which is related to how much good reading
you're exposed to).
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Magnet schools
Date: 25 Jan 1993 01:51:02 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: periodic.eng.umd.edu
Originator: clin@periodic.eng.umd.edu


In article <C1DpMJ.7Bw@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <00727750886@elgamy.jpunix.com> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>
>>I would like to produce Rhodes Scholars as much as anybody. However, when I
>>see 6th graders who cannot read, I prefer to think that perhaps we'd be
>>better first getting those 6th graders reading at the 6th grade level, and
>>only THEN start thinking about producing Rhodes Scholars.
>
>If that's where your sights are pointed, then that's about as far as you are
>likely to get.

    I think it's the walk before run philosophy.   In any case, the Rhodes
Scholarship is given to so few people, that it would be difficult to
train anyone to get it.   Even if the student quality
improved, they would probably offer as many Rhodes scholarships as they
do now, out of economic reasons.   For those whose skills need to improved
to 6th grade level, it seems to make sense to get them there, at the very
least.

>Oh come on.  Lots of people know how to do these things.  It's just that
>nobody working for the schools of education knows.

    Who are the people that knows this?

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu


Newsgroups: misc.education
From: marshall@seas.gwu.edu (Christopher Marshall)
Subject: History of Public Education in U.S.
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:03:45 GMT

Hello, everyone.  I got interested recently in the history of
education in the U.S.  Does anyone have any data on the literacy rates
in the U.S. from 1776 - 1993 ?  When did public education first get started
and what effect did it have on the literacy rate?

Thanks in advance,

Chris Marshall
marshall@seas.gwu.edu
From: SKH4161@MVS.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Gre scores
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:33:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory

In article <1993Jan27.214613.11388@ra.msstate.edu>,
wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Wing-Keong Loke                                               the consummate chronic prevaricator) writes:

>In article <CEDMAN.93Jan26163825@capitalist.princeton.edu> cedman@princeton.edu (Carl Edman) writes:
>>
>>It has been my impression as well that the analytical score is widely
>>ignored.
>>...
>
>        because the psychologists found that the score didn't correlate
>well!  Just goes to show what common sense is worth.  Good too.  I bombed
>the analytic section.

Not so fast.  Fully 75% of the LSAT (the Law School Aptitude Test),
which has pretty decent correlations, is comprised of items virtually
identical to the logical reasoning and analytical "games" items
in the GRE Analytical.  The LSAT consists of four scored sections -
one reading comprehension, two logical reasoning sections, and
one analytical section.  If you bombed the GRE Analytical Section,
I hope you're not taking the LSAT any time soon.
Newsgroups: misc.education,sci.edu
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: Re: Rereading 20 times (was: Branding kids)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 04:56:25 GMT

laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL writes:

>In article <00728020029@elgamy.jpunix.com>, elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>[Stuff deleted.]
>>The sad part is that these kids' prior teachers DID spoon-feed them. So I'm
>>not just having to teach them this stuff. I'm having to de-program them
>>from a mentality of learned helplessness. They're accustomed to having the
>>teacher do everything for them. I refuse to do that. They hate it. So it
>>goes.

>Stick to your guns, Eric.  You are doing these children a great service.
>They will admire you for it later in life, even if none of them comes back
>to tell you so.

I want to second it ...

-pete
Pete Lancashire
petel@sequent.com
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: SKH4161@MVS.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:05:00 GMT

In article <77235@apple.apple.COM>,
billc@Apple.COM (Bill Cockayne) writes:

>I don't know that everyone here is claiming that IQs and SATs reflect how
>smart a person is. In my responses I have stated that SATs are worthless
>indicators and that standardized tests are questionable as to what they test.

You can say what you like but the correlations tell a different
story.  The problem is the other indicators are almost as worthless
as the SAT, which makes any extra information useful.

>People in general are hung up with comparing and testing themselves in all
>aspects of life. Test scores are a concrete way to some people to prove that
>they are "useful" and "smart."

Isn't that what sports is all about?  And what's wrong with having a
little of that attitude when sharpening up one's academic ability?
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: sjm@apollo.hp.com (Scott McCaig)
Subject: 4-7 schools
Originator: sjm@hummer.ch.apollo.hp.com
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:38:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

Our local public school system is running out of room given our
current configuration:

4 K-5  schools  - two schools over capacity
1 K-2  school   - 90% full
1 3-5  school   - 60% full
1 6-8  school   - 1200 with a 1000 capacity
1 9-12 school   - 1400 with a 2000+ capacity

Given the current and next five years of distribution of students across
the various grades, one of the few plans that we've cooked up that has any
chance of working is:

5 K-4  schools
2 4-7  schools
1 8-12 school

The two points of concern are the 4-7 schools and moving the 8th grade
to the high school. The total student population is around 5500.

I'd like to touch base with any systems that have a 4-7 school to discover
what type of educational philospohies might have been applied to this
particular age grouping, along with any problems, opportunities, etc.

If anyone knows of systems like this, please let me know.

I'd also like to hear from people with actual first-hand experience
(either as a parent, teacher, or administrator), with a K-4 school
or with an 8-12 high school. I'm much less interested in the theoretical
problems or opportunities. We've already done a wonderful job of thinking
of the possible problems :) , now we need some actual data.

Thanks for your help.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott McCaig    President of the Chelmsford Alliance for Education (and parent)
sjm@apollo.com
508-436-4243
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: Branding kids, IQ tests, smart vs dumb (Was: Re: Seminar Program)
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:25:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.C1FI6w.4E6
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1993Jan24.162308.2825@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
>In article <96f1029o33cX01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, led11@ccc.amdahl.com (Lynn Robinson) writes:
			...................

                                           You either get very few or a whole
>bunch. When teachers are suddenly faced with as much as 25% of their classes
>not being able to handle the material, time and time again they slow down the
>pace. 

If you get one who is unable to handle the material, and is not easily 
remediated, what CAN you do?  

>|> simply passed ahead without having the understanding, if they had to pass
>|> entry exams to get into subsequent classes, and if they could attempt
>|> the exam to get into any class at any level, you wouldn't have watered-down
>|> classes and parents would not be able to control the level of the classes
>|> that their children attend.

But they could still decide; there is plenty of choice.  However, I would 
make these exams advisory, BUT

>You act as though the level of the classes is fixed. It is not. The teachers
>adjust it. My mother (a teacher) used to say that if a significant fraction
>of the class failed, it was the teacher's fault. Teachers just slow the pace
>to make sure that they are not at fault.

THIS is what must be changed.  The integrity of any curriculum depends on
the teachers sticking to the content and level.  This goes both ways; if
you have a class where almost the entire class has an advanced background,
it is still necessary not to use this to penalize those who belong in the
class.  

Before WWII, most of the schools had a curriculum.  This has almost 
vanished.  They still give courses with labels, but "truth in advertising"
would find far too much of these labels fraudulent.

The success of a teacher does depend on the abilities and background of
the students.  Last semester my service course had a C average, 2 out of 33
got A, and there were 3 F's.  The previous semester, there were 5 A's out of
26, and no F's.  I can do nothing about the input, and one cannot make a
silk purse out of a sow's ear.  But we can make silk purses out of silk.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)