HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Marraige and Segregation
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:07:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.131133.1644@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
>Brad-- this isn't a matter of "palatability."  Marraige, to me, is
>appalling because it privelidges a certain type of relationship in a
>manner which is both homophobic and sexist.  It supports a value
>system which supports an ideal in which _I_ can not exist.

It might be important to clarify whether 'marriage is plain bad' or 'marriage
isn't, but excluding MOTSS couples from it is'.

>  I.e., the
>legitimization of families through special treatment only for
>_heterosexual_ models of a family is designed, in part, to do us in. 
>And I say that when we, as bisexuals, choose to marry, we are engaging
>in a form of apartheid which is truly insidious and self-destructive
>and I can't make an exception for you because it might hurt your
>feelings.

And I don't expect an exception.  I have said that if I am to be damned for
it, then let me be damned.

In the world you paint, I cannot exist.  Married bisexuals are an evil and
terrible thing to be despised -- not suprisingly, I'm not pleased with that.

>  It's not a matter of your relationship with a woman and it
>is not a matter of your "chaning."  It's a matter of how you seek

What is "chaning"?  The term is totally unfamiliar.

>validation for who you are and where you go to seek it.   By getting
>married, you sure as hell won't get it from me.

Being me means having some people despise me, then, but I can't stop being
me for that reason.  In choosing, I have obviously chosen against you, and
so fully anticipate your scorn and your anger and your hate.

>--Julie

It seems you have no place for or tolerance towards married bisexuals in your
position, and so how could I imaginably defend myself?


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: Clive's Pictures of the Party...
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:47:29 GMT

In article <memo.531322@cix.compulink.co.uk> cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
[list of pictures taken, among which:]
>The Morning:
>-----------------
>Olaf: Crashed out on the floor in sleeping bag. Oh, he's such a cutie 
>when he's asleep.

Only when I'm asleep, huh? Thank you! I'd almost censor you from *my*
pictures, but you're on too many of them.  :-)

Can I have a copy?
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/  I survived Dave's party for 7 days and all I got was this lousy .sig!
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Ireland Party (was Re: Muffin Alert!)
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:13:09
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<36193@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <1992Jul27.082025.11393@koko.csustan.edu>
	<24184@castle.ed.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk's message of 27 Jul 92 14:43:09 GMT

In article <24184@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>dsolis@koko.csustan.edu (Djelrik Solis) writes:
>>can go at least 65 MPH for most of the trip.  After crawling through the
>>brown stuff that is Los Angeles (don't actually expect to *see* anything from
>>the freeway!), you will no doubt appreciate the higher speed limit.

>No, I DO NOT DRIVE!!!  I gather this is sacrilige in that part of the
>world.

In LA/southern California, perhaps, but not in San Francisco/the Bay
Area.  I didn't learn to drive until I was 24, and that was so that I
could drive when I travelled on business.  (Actually, I got along fine
for 3 years travelling, but I figured driving was a generally useful
skill.)

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy | muffy@mica.berkeley.edu | wi.4636@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I'm Angry
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:10:00 GMT
Reply-To: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk


Thanks to all of you who have told me that my message was mangled,
i've just seen it... sigh... yet another package hits the bin as
being usenet-hostile... Back to the Notepad methinks.
From: julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Night Court, Transexuality, and homosexuality.
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:41:15 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

>>Reasonable Doubts	A lesbian was a guest on one show.
>>Night Court		Same as above--^
> 
> Night Court: a high school classmate of Dan's shows up and turns out
> not only to have been gay, but is a male-to-female post-op TS.

The charater wasn't gay, otherwise I would have included her.

--Julie
From: cullen@tree.egr.uh.edu (Caleb Cullen)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lycra
Keywords: Lycra, Spandex, AND Sweats...
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:51:16 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

>>>> Weeell.. Anyone who's interested in this, alt.lycra is currently  
>>>>proposed in alt.config. If there's any interest, pleeeeeeezzzzee show  
>>>>it.. <grin> 
>>>>
>>> I am definitely voting against it.  If I start thinking about lycra at  
>>> work, I won't be able to get anything at all done.
>>
>> *snif*  Alright then.. is it okay if I just email you about it instead  
>> :)
>
>Well, maybe just a little bit.  But don't mention those tight little...
>oh, no, I have to stop doing this during working hours.
>--scott

I arrived in Usenet too late to see alt.lycra the first time, but I think  
we should all support its reinstatement.  It sounds like too much too  
miss!  I don't need to code *all* the time...

-----
Caleb Cullen
cullen@tree.egr.uh.edu
I know I'm a silly person; you don't have to tell me specifically!
(Unless you feel strongly about it...)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The Grinch Returns...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:39:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.150300.12846@micor.ocunix.on.ca> grinch@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Dave Ferguson) writes:
>
>Lately I've been on the verge of tears for days at a time.  I know a total
>of three (straight, female) people in this "city that fun forgot".

And I thought you were going to do the trail-blazing out in the Wa?

Come on, Ottawa not bad, actually.  Ya just got the 'New City Blues'.

And at least you got the last bit of the summer.  Except for a vain
hope of finding a nice fireplace somewhere, I must sit in dreadful
contemplation of the Wa Winter.

>  I think
>I'll take a posting vacation until I'm back to my perky self.  I'd hate to
>be a total downer...

The latest the calvary is scheduled to arrive is September 8th, so cheer up.

>I'll be back soon...(yes, it's a threat)
>
>Daemon

Hey, e-mail me.  It's getting busy as exams approach, but it's not that
bad yet that I can't set aside some time for e-mail.


*hugs*
*gropes*


Sure, it's not much, but if things are that bad it'll hafta do ya, for now.

Brad -- The Official Xmuffin of Getting Up to Ottawa Quick and Rescuing Dave's
	Ass
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: could you repost young and queer?
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 07:52:20 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <1992Jul24.200233.23793@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Scott,
>Several people have asked me to email them the young and queer article.
>I wonder if you could repost it?  Any others agree?
>
>
>-- 
>
>- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
	Considering that I'm one fo the people who asked Heather to mail
it-- I agree.. :-)
-- 
  _Sameer_Parekh_zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM_zane@infopls.chi.il.us__________________
 / STOP The War on Rights          | | Restore liberty in the United States \
 | "Specialization is for Insects" | | Vote Libertarian 1992          ______/
 \________- Robert A. Heinlein_____/ \_ap.2363@cupid.sai.com (anon)__/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:04:49 GMT

In article <36218@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:

>I usually point out to my 'hot het stud friends'

You have some?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Where did Ciaran Go? (was: the Party)
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:21:22 GMT

sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:

>cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace) writes:

>>of the netters just *why* we'd never be able to go back the the Meriden
>>hotel...  ever, and how I used a cellular phone to get us out of our... 
>>"predicament". 

>But I don't know about this; hmmm, there must be someway I can, er, coax
>it out of Ellen ...

Trying being a cripple and looking beseechingly at her  ... it worked wonders
for me.

I guess cellular telephones could come in very handy in Clives new
Floor Shows R Us business ......  

Iseult.
From: porsupah@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lycra
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:53:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Jul27.155342.1627
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Jul24.101855.7758@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, atmpas@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>  Hmm.  Given my preference for wearing white [lycra], I've just discovered why
> black is more favoured.

 *chuckle*  No, it just leads to a more interesting image in the dark..

> My white lycra cycling shorts are virtually 
> transparant (no, scrub the virtually) when wearing anything other than white
> underwear.  I only own one set of white underwear.  And as for wearing them
> without underwear - well, umm.

 A lot depends on the actual design. I've some that are quite revealing,
tending to hug around.. ah.. anything and everything there. My preferred pair,
though, tension themselves very well, just showing some (to me) very pleasing
smooth surfaces.

 Underwear - that's one problem. It also, like, slightly disrupts the inherent
aesthetics of the totally smooth lycra surface, or some junk.

> 
> 	I suppose I need to buy some white y-fronts...

 Maybe, maybe.. (or just wear longer t-shirts.. !)

> 
> 		- Paul
> 
>> -- Porsupah, who agrees alt.lycra should be created herewith.
> 
> 	(interesting, but we'd never get it...)

 Who knows ? After all, there are many ways to read newsgroups certain sysops
consider unworthy of attention, not least external accounts, which can be
anything from free through cheap to sort-of-affordable.

-- Porsupah

\      __     /  ---  porsupah@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
 \\     /'   //                      wi.5380@wizvax.methuen.ma.us
  \\\__/!|__///  ---                                   B5fw-cvdvg+(+)k+s++e+p
From: grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Keywords: motss motos m-o-u-s-e
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:05:17 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Steve Dyer writes
> Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
> homosocial (if you will)?  Every bisexual I know has a MOTOS on
> hir arm but also professes interest in MOTSS. :-)

Lots.  Some even in this newsgroup.  :)

In the Univ. of Chicago Bisexual Union, those of us who are in couple  
relationships seem to be about 50/50 motos and motss.  But that's by  
practice, which doesn't necessarily reflect the gender leanings, if any, of  
the people in those relationships.  And the relationship between theory and  
practice is, of course, another thread....
--
Cliff Winnig     			 -------_
cliff@uchicago.edu		          \ hi //
or, for mail with NeXT attachments:        \  //
grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu	            \//  
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Night Court, Transexuality, and homosexuality.
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:11:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.114115.1624@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

>[I said:]
>
>> Night Court: a high school classmate of Dan's shows up and turns out
>> not only to have been gay, but is a male-to-female post-op TS.
>
>The charater wasn't gay, otherwise I would have included her.

My understanding of the show was that during the time that the
character identified as male, it was as a gay man.  I'm not sure if
that makes any difference.>

Come to think of it, there was another episode of NIGHT COURT with a
queer character.  There was a guest character, a gay man, who asked
out Dan (and, predictably, frightened the bejeezus out of him).  Later
in the show, Dan and this man were trapped in an elevator together for
ten or twelve hours, during which Dan had something of a revalation
about homosexuality.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Making your own categories
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:21:42 GMT

   I was thinkin' recently about how _I_ categorize people.  And I
realized, quite suddenly, that I don't use the normal labels.  I don't
list someone in my head as 'gay,' 'lesbian' or 'bisexual.'

   I use a simpler one, at least one I think is simpler.  The "Oriented
Towards" categories.  Mostly, I realized how necessary this was to my
life when I realized I knew several Transsexuals in various stages, and
wasn't sure how to catgorize them in terms of being gay/straight.
Finally I decided "Fuck it, Jeri's OT women, Pat's OT men."  It made my
life a whole lot easier.

   And it makes angsting of the sort Ailsa's going through a little
incomprehensible.  F'r instance, there's Karen.  "OT Women and Elves."
Heheheheh....

            Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:46:38 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <1992Jul30.102949.3508@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>Edinburgh and chicago are the current hotspots to find soc.bi posters.
>With 3 people posting from Lehigh Valley, I guess that makes it a
>luke-warm spot.

Grumble.  The problem is that all the Coventry bifolk (apart from me) have
at the moment only tenuous-at-best electronic solace... otherwise we'd
definitely be a tepid-to-warm spot.  And, I may say, Edinburgh only
got the way it was because it pinched Dave, Alex and Pete Strover from
Coventry :)   Nearly had me too, but c'est la pomme de guerre...

>Unfortunately, with the lack of local posters and the traditional
>Irish weather, Dublin could best be described as a wet-spot.

Ooo! does this mean that I can get to sleep in the wet spot? :)

		mad, bad, and moist already
		Kay
  

-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Touching and the Party
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:04:48 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <1992Jul22.130721.7396@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu
(Albert Lunde) writes:

>To take a different example, I'm over six feet tall and it is not usually
>difficult for me to pick people up when I hug them. However, I tend to
>be cautious about doing this, as it upsets many people.

I had an experience with this sort of thing. I'm very close with my parents,
and we frequently have a good hug (particularly with my mum) when I go to
see them and we haven't seen each other for a while. It's sort of a "yes I'm
here, yes we still love each other" type of hug. Anyway my mum is 5'4" and
about 8 stone, and I'm 6'0" and 12 stone. On one occasion I'd hurt my back
and bending to hug her was painful, so I picked her up. I was surprised how
easy it was actually. My mum was quite surprised by this. Although she never
fully said what the problem was, I think it was twofold. I think by picking
her up I had strayed into areas that she regarded as sexual, and secondly my
dad is 5'8" and he has a lot more trouble picking her up than I do. Height
is very important on these leverage based activities.

Owen.

The views expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of Acorn.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Rights or Privilege
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1992Jul29.135333.9980@athena.cs.uga.edu>
	<1992Jul29.145432.17937@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:59:58


Ciaran-

I have the same reaction.  I think of "privelege" as something beyond
what everyone should have.  Therefore, "heterosexual privilege"
suggests to me that heterosexuals shouldn't do those things because
people shouldn't generally do those things.

-Alan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: johnson@swings.enet.dec.com (Dennis M. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Bisexuality runs in the family?
Reply-To: johnson@swings.enet.dec.com (Dennis M. Johnson)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:13:50 GMT


>>they are related.  Are they?  Anyway, the issue that made me post here
>is that there are now (at least) 3 of the 4 children in my family 
>identifying as bi.  Is there anyone else out there who is in a similar
>situation?

A year or two ago I was in a seminar for sexually abused men. The statistic 
that was cited there was that about 70% of men who were abused are gay/bi.
It was safe space and we took an informal poll in that group and found that 70%
of the group was gay/bi identified. It is well known in school counseling
circles that a majority of women who have been abused experience either
promiscuity or lesbianism. I would say they tend to be more related than not.

Just my experience.

Dj
From: porsupah@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The Party
Date: 22 Jul 92 07:57:11 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <memo.something-I-can't-remember-what@cix.compulink.co.uk>, cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace) writes:

>>> but who'se going to break the stories? spread the dirt?
>>>I think we need to design a roadmap to work out who was with
>>> whom... and when... and how... using what.

 Sounds like less a matter for cartography than advanced topology..  >chuckle<

-- Porsupah, awaiting the appearance of the party gifs..
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler)
Subject: Re: Hetero/bi/homophobia (Was: Lesbian denial)
Reply-To: bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 03:18:13 GMT


In a previous article, elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) says:

>In article <1992Jul30.140223.9149@amhux2.amherst.edu>
>     twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>Do you think that bisexuals, for example, are being
>>short-sighted for limiting themselves to sex with human beings?
>
>   Some of us think so!
>
>         Elf !!!  (Kinsey 3, Doolittle 1)
           Giggle!!!          ^^^^^^^^^^^
-- 
|Jeff Epler               Additions Welcome           c(-8 ;-) >{8-) |
| :) (=( =-] (-= Celebrating the variety of faces =-> :^) {-= |-) (: |
|                                                   Lincoln, Nebraska|
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Life does funny things sometimes
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:37:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.190620.7260@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>[Albert:]
>>>It is worth noting that lesbians were once outcasts at the fringes of the
>>>feminist movement instead of being assigned mythic status as the ideal.
>>
>[Dave:]
>>Yes, indeed, and it was largely lesbians who campaigned for the addition of
>>the aim that I (mis)quoted to the aims of the UK WLM.  And of course many
>>women who support the WLM do recognise and accept bisexuality.  (In case
>>anyone took my remark seriously (I omitted a smiley), the aim says that
>>women have the right to choose their own sexuality.  I added the remark
>>about bisexuality.)
>>
>Hmmm.  I know that NOW was harsh on the lesbian members in it's early years,
>but NOW's a "mainstream" feminist group (IMHO).  It was my impression that
>fairly soon after "radical" feminism started in the late 60's, lesbians 
>played a very large role in the movement.  If I feel either energetic
>or naughty enough, I'll try to track down that book on radical feminism that
>talked about those early years.

I've got several such books, i.e. "Plain Brown Rapper" by Rita Mae Brown,
"Amazon Odyssy" by Ti-Grace Atkinson, "Feminist Revolution" by the Redstockings
among others.

I made some dubious comments about NOW partly in response to seeing the
response of the Chicago NOW chapter to a program on homophobia and the 
media response to Patricia Ireland.  It seems to me like NOW is still
processing issues I would have thought they had settled years ago
based on the history I'd read.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................