HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:58:39 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

I too, just had to say how startled I was about Bob's death (I don't even
know if I knew him enough to use his first name).
When I, finally, got access to Usenett (urso talked about it constantly)-
Bob's name was one that I began to recognize and 'follow' the messages of (this
place can be overwhelming). I never met Bob- or have I met many of the motss'ers/
But as I sat there (when I found out Friday night (the irony being I had
just walked in the door from working at a nearby AIDS Hospice, and was discussing
how cool the 'veteran' volunteer was on loosing people)
well, I sat there crying over someone I had never met, and listening to
good peoples comments on loosing what must have been one heckuva wonderful
fellow, I am really struck by how many friends this man has. He was a very
lucky man.
Bob, I am honestly sad to have never met you, or gotten to know you- but
it sounds like you will Never be forgotten. thanks everyone for all the wonderful
memories you are sharing with us.
growf.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:24:34 GMT

In article <joelp.714173518@cs.man.ac.uk> joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project) writes:
>Hey, look, I've thought about this, really.  As a vegetarian, I still eat
>chicken and fish and stuff occasionally, and in a pinch (i.e., forgetting to
>order a vegeterian meal for the transfer portion of the flight back here) I'll
>even eat incredibly gross things like black pudding.

Joel, by your later arguments, you really shouldn't be averse to black
pudding: it's one of the few meat-related products that can be made with
no more violence than a needle in the arm.  No slaughtering is necessary:
the Masai regularly bleed their cattle to provide them with food.

I really like black pudding, even if it is usually a product of slaughter,
and, I must admit, have contemplated finding someone who wouldn't
object to donating a pint or two so that I could try the human variant.

Then again, I have no qualms about consensual cannibalism, so that
probably marks me out as someone who should be betrayed to the Nasties that
have been harrassing our poor Nelson, even though he is a greenchompist.

		"Reader, I curried him."
		Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Summary: how to respond?
Date: 23 Aug 92 00:54:03 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: anticrossposters 'r' us

i have not read any of the fabulous nelliphobe's postings since the
first vile one, but i've read all the responses to the creature except
those that quoted great chunks of its texts.  many of these struck as
carefully thought through, well expressed, and passionate; some were
also quite funny.

glad as i am to have read this stuff, it seems odd to me that so much
effort is directed against something so impervious.  i suspect, in
fact, that the more energy that is expended against it, the more
resistance it exhibits.  the zen thing to do would be to collapse to
nothing and to talk amongst ourselves about any and all subjects of
interest to us, including (perhaps) the distressing syndrome in which
gay people reject anything but strictly stereotypical gender
presentations from other gay people.

meanwhile, i continue sending my warning messages to the new
crossposters from hell (about 50 such messages so far), and getting in
return some flak (which in one case i turned to some understanding, i
think), some apologies, and two bold assertions that the crosspostings
to all nine groups were appropriate and necessary.  i have just told
the second of these, "fuck off, asshole", something which some of you
will (rightly) suspect i very rarely say, but which seemed in this
case exactly the thing to say.  so maybe i shouldn't be counseling the
rest of you on when to speak and when to be silent.

arnold (thin in the patience department)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:30:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.012058.5470@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>Oh, and as for you three ladies and me "on top":  
>There isn't a nickel's worth of difference between any of you and an
>actual woman; (of course there isn't; you like it that way).

I think that gay men who spew misogynic garbage are giving undue credence 
to the homophobic notion that gay men are gay because they're women haters.

Addtionally, these attitudes harm the community itself, because this vicious 
stereotype makes it harder for normal-thinking gay and bisexual men to come 
out, for fear of being linked to such unsavory attitudes.

Between reinforcing women-hating sterotypes of gay men both within the 
male queer community and the larger society, misogynist gay men are 
retarding any chance for advancing male gay and bisexual issues.

-- 
				||| Polly Powledge
				||| Internet: P.S.Powledge@ATT.COM
				||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Republicans and Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/etc. Rights
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:32:27 GMT

Julian C. Lander (jclander@maestro.mitre.org) wrote:
> 
> By the way, does anyone know how to get in touch with the Clinton/Gore
> campaign?  If you do, could you send me email? (Posting's
> OK, too, but it might be a waste of space.)
------------------

You can contact Clinton For President by email at:

          75300.3115@compuserve.com

Mike Drayton
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: more (and revised) faces for the soc.motss GIF archive
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:47:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug20.084735.6012
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

First, several photos of Rob which were already in the archive,
but which had been scanned with a low-quality scanner.  These
new versions under the same names are quite superior.

billy_green.and.rob_bernardo.gif	- Resting on the library steps
rob_bernardo.gif			- whose beautiful blue-green
					  eyes come out a little more
					  clearly now (thanks, Jim)

Two more photos of Rob, taken at the 1988 con:

robert.rob.billy.gif			- Robert Cohen, Rob and Billy Green
rob_bernardo.and.robert_cohen.gif	- This is a study in cowboy hats,
					  knees and elbows.  Rob is behind
					  the hat.

david_kerlick_head.gif			- The Magnificant Persimmon
david_kerlick_lotus.gif			- in a lotus position.
john_dorrance.gif			- at Rooster Rock
max_meredith.gif			- a great portrait of Max Vasilatos
brent_davies.gif			- from Melbourne, OZ

tony_berno.gif				- aberno@cs.ubc.ca
tony_berno2.gif
john_vogel2.gif				- aberno's lover, vogel@llnl.gov
john_vogel3.gif
					- I'd never met either Tony or
					  John, but I bumped into them at a
					  sandwich shop in Berkeley last week,
					  recognizing them from photos I'd
					  seen in Bear Fax and Discover.
					  Tony says he hasn't dropped off the
					  face of the earth, merely teetering
					  on the edge, and should be back on-
					  line in Vancouver in a month.
-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From:  David Christopher Rogers <drogers@riacs.edu>
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Originator: drogers@solstice.riacs.edu
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:37:26 GMT

    Message-ID: <1992Aug13.042650.7512@news.ysu.edu> 
    From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) 

    >>Instead of drafting anyone, let's keep things as they are, an 
    >>all-volanteer service.  In this way, we can assure that 
    >>these things never happen.

There are undoubtedly some advantages to an all-volunteer force,
but there are clearly moral implications of using a mercinary rather
than a civil force in war.  Crudely put, rich people get to buy
poorer people to die for them, and have less worries about starting a war.  
"Volunteer" does not absolve it of issues.

Me, I'd feel safer if ALL people, sexes, ages, and incomes had some 
risk of dying in a war.  Especially if people in our political system
had spouses/children/selves carrying the same risk.  Guess how many
children of congresscritters went to Iraq?  Better guess low.

At least in the old days the king had to duck spears in the field with
the rest of them.  We should be so lucky. 

David Christopher Rogres
From: Mark.Thomas@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Info Request: Toronto, Buffalo
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:46:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.QeWzy8600hNH0AM19L
Reply-To: mthomas+@globe.edrc.cmu.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA



A friend and I will be in Buffalo/Niagara Falls on Thu 20 Aug and in
Toronto from Fri 21 Aug to Mon 24 Aug.  This is my first trip to
Buffalo, and both of us are virgins to Canada.  We are looking for
suggestions of sites to see, clubs to visit, things to do, and
inexpensive hotels/bed & breakfasts.  We are both (single) gay white
male students; he's 19; I'm 25; we enjoy dancing, good food, shopping,
the theatre....  If you have any suggestions, please mail them to
mthomas+@globe.edrc.cmu.edu.

Thanks in advance,

-Mark
--
Mark Thomas                      Chemical Engineering Dept
(412) 268 5212                   Carnegie Mellon University
mthomas+@cmu.edu                 Pittsburgh PA  15213-3890
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:02:35 GMT

In <92232.132006IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>sorry, if you eat "chicken and fish and stuff" you are NOT a
>vegetarian!  vegetarians do not eat meat.  period.

>                                        -ailsa

Oh, yes, this gets into all kinds of fun stuff: "No, I'm a
vegetarian...I'll have that fish dish instead..."  Gurgle...

We need proper names for these people (besides curses, I mean! ;-)

any-meat eater
red-meat eater
white-meat eater
seafood eater
lacto-ovo vegetarian (+ lacto-vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian)
vegan

It seems that everyone who restricts some sort of meat from their diet
will call themselves a "vegetarian"...sigh.


Terminologically,
--Cindy
--

*  I would rather that a bigot thought I was a lesbian than that a
*  lesbian thought I was a bigot.        -- Tovah Hollander
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:37:12 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <15731@star.cs.vu.nl>,
fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

> Thanks to the new world order, the Netherlands are talking about
> abolishing the draft and going for a proffesional-only army. But with
> my luck, I'll probably get into the last shift.

I don't much like the idea of the draft, and I feel sorry
for FJ.  But I'm in two minds.  The trouble is, it seems to
me that the only practicable alternative to the draft at
present is professional armed forces...

The UK has had professional armed forces for about twenty-
five years.  What this means in practical terms is that we
collectively employ upwards of 100,000 highly-trained, and
totally committed berserkers, all armed to the teeth. 

Their effectiveness as an army can scarcely be doubted, as
various people have discovered to their cost.  Whether it
is a good thing to have these people around in society,
however, is far from clear to me.  Frankly, I would rather
share, say, a railway carriage with a whole platoon of FJ's
fellow-draftees, drink, machismo and all, than with one
single drunk British paratrooper.

A neighbour's son was recently cashiered from the army.
He'd been in for nine years.  Walking back to base after an
exercise and a few drinks, he had let fly with a bazooka
and blown away a colleague.  It was an accident, of course,
but what horrified me about this story was that he really
felt quite proud of it.  "FDOOM! Smack in the back!" he
said, grinning.

The UK is in many ways one of the most militaristic
societies in the West, and I really would rather it wasn't. 

--John
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Powell's Bookstore
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:56:06 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug13.001344.20397@macc.wisc.edu>,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug12.162254.9370@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
> gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
> writes:
> >     True sign of a size queen:
> >Grabbing onto something that is too big to handle!
> 
> We do not acknowledge this ever having happened to a *true*
> Size Queen!

If I can't get it in my mouth, it's unfeasibly large.

"Never eat anything bigger than your head."
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"Being kissed by a man who didn't wax his moustache was --
like eating an egg without salt." -- Rudyard Kipling
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:26:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug18.142659.4815
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <14552@borg.cs.unc.edu> harris@currituck.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris) writes:
>Sorry I ruffled your feathers, Tom.  It wasn't intended.  *sigh*
>Maybe I should just take a vacation from motss.

Pulease.  Getting called a "bigot" (chortle) in such a context
(i.e., where the word "bigotry" is wildly inappropriate) is a mark
of honor.  Frankly, I first thought the guy's response was a
rather wry example of sarcasm itself.

>I don't seem to be able to make my point in under three pages...

That's never stopped even our most esteemed members. :-)

Youth!  First they apologize for making silly posts about gerbils,
and now they apologize for insulting the sarcasm-impaired.  Why is
it that only the ones who needn't apologize think of doing so, whereas
"Sargon the Butch" marches on...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: Huntsville? Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:38:05 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>> Jeff, dear, you should know that if nothing else, the Motss Grand 
>> Faggot gets around.
>But not, as of yet, to Huntsville, Alabama.  Nor, recently, to the
>glorious Pacific Northwest.  [Note to Steve Dyer: What's with the 
>piece of linoleum over John Dorrance's love muscle?]

oh my.  (Rummaging around) Now wherever *is* that archive address?

-jeff
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 18 Aug 1992 14:43:45 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <18AUG92.17292646@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> In a previous article, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
> >Oh, honey, you haven't been in this tropical heat wave 
> >we've been suffering through for the last week and a half. 
> >I'd pay to have my central heating *removed*.
>
> You *could* just turn it off.

I was talking about my metaphorical central heating.  I'd
love to have refrigerated air conditioning installed in
my body.  It is too darn hot.

> Sim, really in the tropics, with no artificial heat needed.

OK, LA's not in the tropics, but we've had a week and a half
of 95+ days with hideous, godawful humidity.  They've even
started using the heat-humidity index here, according to which 
it felt like it was 112 on Saturday.  It's *awful*.

Arne
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Question about non-rights laws (OR:9 CO:2)
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:43:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug16.154331.3346
Organization: insert anything here


	I don't have the texts in front of me, so I thought I'd ask the
enlightened opinions of those closer to the front lines...

	Could the proposed anti-gay laws in CO and OR be construed
to outlaw gay bars?  Seems to be that the state licensing commission
would also be under the law not to promote homosexuality which could
also include prohibiting (and in the most stringent case revoking)
any liquor licenses for operations supporting a mostly-gay clientele.

	I suppose that one might not be required to say that one was
applying for a license for a gay bar, but I'm sure at some point the
info has to leak out.  If in fact a lot of things are retro (as evidenced
by the fact that in both cases all standing pro-gay law are removed)
then it wouldn't be too hard to extend it for standing things like
liquor licenses.

BBC, not looking forward to
a possible gay-rights repeal
in Mass. in 1994.
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Not hiding (was Re: Lost in Austin)
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:49:18 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <170hnmINN6hv@agate.berkeley.edu> 
 sclark@ocf.berkeley.edu (Steven Clark) writes:
>Who knows my name, phone number, and sexual preference that would do
>something like that? What would have happened if I fell for it?
>	I feel violated. Hunted. Unsafe in my own home. I feel like crawling
>into the closet, running away. I feel like fighting back but too weak
>and frightened and I don't know how. 
>	And my shrink is on vacation this week. 

All I can say, Steven, is I'm really sorry.  I empathize.  I've been
uncomfortable lately too:

* A good friend (and fellow motsser) was harassed last month by kids on 
  the street while leaving our apartment late; they wanted to know
  if he was a faggot, so he said, "As a matter of fact, I'm bi."  One
  thing led to another, with Cliff leaning out the window to yell at the
  harassers, and me calling the cops.  We didn't sleep very well for
  days, because they knew where we lived.

  A few weeks later, someone identifying himself as a gas-company employee
  hoodwinked our downstairs neighbor into showing him around.  After he'd
  gone, she realized he'd had no ID and left on a motorcycle, rather than
  a company vehicle.

  Last week, I heard noises at our back door at 3 am.  I padded to the
  kitchen, suddenly turned on all the lights, and was rewarded by the sound
  of running feet down our back stairs, followed by a car roaring away.

* Somebody called me a couple of days ago, asked for me by name, said he
  "was deeply depressed about his sexuality" (sounded like he was reading
  from a prepared script), and he wanted to know about the Bisexual Union.
  I was noncommittal, but asked where he was.  He said he was a U of C
  undergraduate, doing something-or-other "this semester".  Click.  
  (Chicago's on the quarter system.)  I discovered last weekend, at the
  Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, that my name and phone number are in
  an international bisexual resource guide.

* During the bashings and harassments at the University of Chicago last
  spring, a friend was told to "watch out for that redhead friend of
  yours"; I was one of the more prominent campus activists at the time.
  The photo of me holding the "Another Queer for Non-Violence" was used
  on the front page of the campus paper _again_ last week.

Yeah, I'm not happy about it.  But what's the alternative:  the closet?

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "Consider it an expression of `We're here, we're queer, and it's within 
   the realm of distant possibility, perhaps, that we're not going away (am
   I being too pushy?  forgive me).'"  --Melinda Shore (shore@tc.cornell.edu)
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RNC: Buchanan's speech
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:03:03 GMT

anon@spdcc.com (Forwarded Anonymous Posting) writes:
:The times have changed, and so must society.  The views of the fundamentalist
:Republican party are out of date and truly do not represent the views of
:the majority of Americans.

That we will see come November. Here's hoping for you that you are right.
Vote, all of you.

							FJ!!
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Masculine and Feminine, round 4.
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:12:23 EDT

In article <1992Aug12.022513.25416@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I want to further develop my understanding of what it means to be
> completely queer and yet still love men, as a man, in a way that I see
> being essentially *male*. This is a new awareness for me - that one
> man can love another and still be a "real man", or be "masculine".
> 
> But the terms "real man" and "masculine" are inappropriate.

When I was little, I used to imagine "masculine" and "feminine" as a 
circle, rather as the Libertarians pretend to do for right-wing and 
left-wing, and think that the most masculine men would love men.  This 
might be the sort of thing that Arnold referred to as hypermasculinity.  

If I were constructing this image now, I might pick a helix, as they 
sometimes do to depict musical pitch.  Those baritones down at the E below 
middle C have so much in common with the altos up near the E above that 
we even give them the same pitch name, but the octaves are quite distinct.
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:40:09 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
>[Aside: What *was* that horrible restaurant Mae West used to
>like?  Damn, I wish I could remember.  Anyway, the father of
>a friend of mine was in the national tour of "Sextette" and
>he has all sorts of funny stories about her.]

Perhaps we will hear some of them during the next crosspost frenzy?

>The sweat scenes always make me laugh.  Are they having sex
>in a sauna?  Do any of *you* work up a lather like that?
>(I imagine Arnold is going to jump in and say yes.)

After seeing one particularly unreal scene, Daivd and I tried to reproduce the
sweat.  We tried just about everything we could think of, kept the air 
conditioning off and the door closed.  We worked up somewhat of a sweat, 
but nothing in comparison to the movie we had just seen.  Obviously we
didn't do it right.

I'm realizing that the few same-sex love scenes I have seen seem more 
real to me the motos sex on screen, not because I can relate to them, 
but possibly because they are portrayed more realistically.  They don't
have passion measured by dripping sweat, sex in bizarre places
(Risky Business comes to mind - the scene in the subway), moaning and
groaning to orgasm usually seen in opposite sex coupling.
I could just be idealizing the very few gay sex scenes I have
ever seen on the screen, though.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold