HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: defee@tukkasotka.tut.fi (Irek Defee)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:04:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.025453.2892@panix.com> jis@panix.com (Jack Szwergold) writes:
>In a poll taken in a local paper asking what people thought of the jews, the
>breakdown was along the lines of %5 openly hated them %15 don't like them
>%30 wouldn't mind if they left the country etc... etc... I think you get
>the picture.

On the other hand, in the last parliamentary elections in Poland, one
or two antisemitic groups were allowed to participate and got access to
public media (this was because of fervor of ensuring 100% democracy).
As it turned out, despite loudly campaign, they have not got even a 
single seat in a parliament although the rules were favoring marginal 
number of votes and plenty of strange people got places. How does 
this fit into your picture? (BTW, leader of one these groups was later
ordered by court to undergo psychiatric testing).

>The majority of Poles are NOT lovers of judaism.  I have a hard time
>dealing with it myself, since my background is Polish.

Hm, its hard to talk about "majority", but I noticed that at least in 
this part of population which has IQ enough to visit bookstores and 
cultural events there is huge INTEREST in judaism. I found plenty of
books by jewish authors, with Isaac Bashevis Singer being omnipresent.
Also, festivals of jewish culture/ exhibitions/theatrical events 
attract many people.

>PS: The Poles DID welcome Jews to Poland at one time, but when things
>turned bad, the jews became another scape goat.   The socialist partis in
>Poland before the war did more to accelerate anti-semetisim than even the
>Nazi's......  I have no love for them.

That is a proof that your knowledge of Nazi era is only by name...

>PPPS:  If Poland is/was such a great placefor Jews, please explain why the
>Jewish population fled th country in drove.....

No, no, the problem i s  exactly opposite: why it happened that, over 
centuries, Jewish population in Poland grew up to becoome most sizable in
Europe, while in all other places has decreased in equally sizable numbers?
Why?

>Jack
>jis@panix.com

Irek
defee@cs.tut.fi



-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:57:27 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Herman Rubin writes:

>Two of the rivers are there, exactly as described.  They are the Tigris,
>which is described, and the Euphrates, which was considered as not even
>needing description.
>
>But there are no other rivers meeting the descriptions given.
>
>Also, the region where Eden would have to be according to the location
>of the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates has been well explored.
>The Book of Genesis states that it is guarded by supernatural beings.
>Now, unless these beings, instead of using swords to keep people away
>as it states in the Bible, can convey the impression that there is no
>forbidden place there, and there is no detectible anomaly in our observations
>to indicate something is not there, we have problems.  If they can keep
>us today with our equipment from even detecting the existence of Eden,
>why not back then?  Why is the wording there?  

You seem to have missed my point.  The Torah asserts that there are
worlds other than our physical one.  Mankind straddles them all,
physical and spiritual.

If you want to believe that there is only the physical, then go right
ahead but don't call it Judaism.

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
From: rig@eng.umd.edu (Ronald Greenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:08:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <1992Aug25.115918.17339@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.153009.8660@schbbs.mot.com>
>swietor@ecf.toronto.edu (Maria Swietorzeck) writes:
>
>>       NAZI CAMPS BUILT BY THE GERMANS IN GERMAN-OCCUPIED POLAND
>
>>We urge you to do so by writing to the Press Council, and copying the editor 
>>of the Toronto Star and the Congress.
>
>Alternative text:

>I am aware of the complaint by the Canadian Polish Congress concerning
>the Toronto Star's use of appropriate wording to describe Nazi German
>concentration camps in German-occupied Poland.  I fully support the
>Toronto Star in this issue.  References to camps of unspecified origin
>and simply said to be located in Poland are factually accurate but
>deeply offensive to Poles trying to minimize their own participation in
>antisemitic atrocities before, during, and after World War II.  I
>believe that news stories should be clear on this point.

Sam, you've gone too far this time.  I agree that there was plenty of
participation of Poles in antisemitic atrocities and that many Poles
try to minimize it.  Still, the original article had a valid point
that it is more informative to refer to German camps or
German-occupied Poland.

Let's not have this become a Jewish/Polish flame war.  Please restrain
your urges to post on this subject.
-- 

Ronald I. Greenberg	(Ron)		rig@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vatican, Israel and Hidden Children
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 10:14:05 GMT
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger) writes:


> > You are right. Cardinal Lustiger, archbishop of Paris, was born from very
> >religious jewish (polish?) parents. 
> 
> Actually, I'm pretty sure that his conversion happened before WWII. 
> And he has been a Cardinal for some years now.
> 
 
 You are wrong, Cardinal Lustiger converted either during or after WWII.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ai726@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alice Schubach)
Subject: Re: A few questions
Reply-To: ai726@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alice Schubach)
Cc: jec@zurich.ibm.com
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:14:38 GMT


In a previous article, jec@zurich.ibm.com () says:

>
>2) It seems to me that most of the jewish feasts are related to the Hebrew history.
>For the christians, most of the feasts are related to the history of Christ. But
>as Christ is considered as a divinity for christian, religious feasts are really
>religious. On the contrary, I have the impression that jewish feasts are more
>the celebration of a common history where god has it's place. Therefore I think it is

No, Jewish holidays are essentially religious, not just the celebration of a
common history. Two minor holidays, Chanukah and Purim, are less religious
and a little bit closer to your definition. Yes, Chanukah is a MINOR Jewish
holiday, and has only been escalated by its calendar proximity to Christmas,
but this is another subject, best left to another discussion and another day.

The holidays that we are now preparing for are Rosh Hashona and Yom Kippur,
the celebration of the Jewish New Year. Major components of this are 
making your peace with G-d and man, repenting for your sins of the previous
year and getting a fresh start. The observation is not at all like the
secular new year, where people party and celebrate. Rather, we spend
several days in the synagogue and pray for forgiveness for both ourselves
and the entire community. On Yom Kippur (9 days after Rosh Hashona) we 
fast from sundown to sundown.

The above is just a brief summary, of course, of the significance of this
holiday. There are other major Jewish holidays, some of which are tied to
our history (as you say), but have strong religious meaning. I will not go
into details of these in this post, but perhaps somebody else wants to.

>easier to be jewish and atheist than christian and atheist for that reason. So,
>what is judaism ? Is it more than a religion, is it a way of life, is it a 
>philosophy ?
>

Judaism is all of the above and more. It is also membership in a world-wide
family and this is the reason for our attachment to Israel. I personally
don't see how a Jew can be an atheist. Without the religion, all the other
components are not enough to keep Judaism alive.

Alice Schubach
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ce157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric W. Mack)
Subject: Genealogy
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 22:15:33 GMT


Is anybody interested in Jewish genealogy?  Is there an existing
forum to swap ideas and seek information on names & towns?  If
not, how do I go about setting up such a bulletin board?
-- 
Eric Mack or Cheryl Birkner Mack
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Nazi Camps
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:06:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.131528.10834@sarah.albany.edu>, pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
> In article <67520@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
> >
> >communist, albeit oligarchical, government.  Have you actually forgotten who
> >Josef Stalin was?  This was a man who cruelty, paranoia, and ruthlessness made
> >HITLER cringe!  Hitler's worst nightmare was to be captured by the Russians
> >in W.W.II.  Stalin murdered nearly as many Jews, if not more, than Hitler did.
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >While Stalin may not have believed in "Aryan supremacy," he CERTAINLY was an
> >anti-Semite.  In the czarist days, the cossacks and others fomented pogroms
> >routinely.  When there was something going wrong, "it must be the Jews, let's
> >go have a pogrom and kill some..."  When you equate Poland and Russia, especiaally
> >from the time between WWI and WWII, you ignore just who was holding the strings
> >in the USSR at that time.  Other than fascism/communism, the differences 
> >betwenn Hitler and Stalin are not great.  Both were paranoid, power-hungry,
> >absolute dictators who were both anti-Semitic, among other hatreds they had 
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >also.
> >-- 
> 
>   I really feel sorry for you if you cannot tell the difference between
> Hitler and Stalin and their attitude toward Jewish people.
> 
>   Your views exposed in you text are simplistic, to say the least.
> 

I have to agree with Pawel here.  Hitler wanted to kill all Jews.
Just because they were Jews, even Jews who had converted or if they
only had one Jewish parent or grandparent.

Stalin probably resulted in many Jewish deaths, but I doubt that
as many, and not because they were Jews.  Jews who starved to death
in the Ukraine due to Stalins' policies there were not singled out,
they died because Stalins' policy was cruel and diabolical to all
residents of the Ukraine, among whom there happened to be Jews.
Jews escaping Nazi occupied Poland died in Stalins Siberian labor
camps (probably about 250,000) not because they were Jews, but
because Stalin felt anyone who had survived under Hitler
had been corrupted by him, despite the fact that communist sympathizing
Jews were far more likely to flee Eastward into the USSR from 1939-43.
Lots of Soviet POW's were summarily shot at the end of the war
because the Soviets didn't believe they could survive without
collaborating, especially Jews who were in double jeopardy under
Nazi control.

Both in extent and motivation I have to disagree with Avron.
Stalin was no angel, but he was no Hitler either.
And although at the end the Doctors' Plot did show lots of
anti-semitism and paranoia, his anti-semitism was
the run-of-the-mill kind common in Russia, not the maniacal
murderous brand of the Nazis.

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own, not my employers'.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:17:20 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <ALLEN.92Aug25161245@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>Herman> conclusions one can get from the assumptions.  Reform Jews do not
>Herman> accept the statement that God literally wrote even the written Torah

>Why does the Reform Movement think of the Written Torah as being more
>important than other ancient texts?  How does it decide which texts
>(or parts thereof) are important and which are not?

The entire Tanakh was written down in its present form in the Maccabean
period, which makes it considerably older than any written copy of the
Mishnah.  Classical Reform even placed more importance on the prophets
than on the Torah.  But there is considerable evidence that the Sefer
Torah is, in its present form, at least immediate post-Exilic, and that
much of it must have been considerably pre-Exilic.  The agreement
between the Torah + Joshua and the Samaritan Bible is good, but not
excellent.

To the extent that there is any "official" Reform position, it is that these
works, as well as the Talmud, Responsa, etc., are considered as Divinely
inspired, and not to be ignored.  Different individuals place different
amounts of importance of these various things.  As I see it, the consensus
is that the one-line Sh'ma prayer itself it the theology, and that the
Ten Commandments come close to being directly from God, and it goes down
from there.

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: petrel@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:25:18 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

> 
> For newcomers to this group, I must re-post this.  WWII refugees that
> belong to the same synagogue as my parents can forgive somewhat the
> Germans because they were just following orders, but they cannot forgive
> the Poles, Lithuanians, and Hungarians who jumped on the bandwagon.

Thanks for generous thinking about newcomers to this group who could miss your
elegant solution to those seemingly messy ethical problems of guilt
and responsibility. However, before I start to preach your Words among
the unenlightened, please clarify my (minor) doubt. Who gave the Germans
those orders they just followed?

Ah,  could I stupid of me...

He was an Austrian!


....
> Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
> AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.

Faithfully yours

Piotr Trela
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 02:40:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Herman Rubin should know better than posting such nonsense as that the
area around the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates has been
"thoroughly explored" and instead consult a map.

Even in "thoroughly explored" Israel people are still discovering
biblical source material to this day. In "thoroughly explored" London,
it seems that every so often when someone starts a new building site
they find archaelogical treasure. Yet the area of the Tigris and
Euphrates hasn't even been scratched, in comparison.

Unless Rubin has been over every square mile of the subject area, or
has spoken to colleagues who have, this is just one more case of his
making it up as he goes along. It's time he receded from this
discussion and returned to a subject one assumes he knows something
about: Statistics.
From: jjmorris@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Joyce Morris)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Shofar stinks - Help
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:52:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: gandalf.Aug.29.23.52.38.1992.2668
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

My Father bought a shofar in late December.  He says it now smells very
bad like something died in it.  How can he clean it so it no longer
smells?  He is able to blow it with no problem.

Thanks 

Joyce Morris  jjmorris@gandalf.rutgers.edu
From: gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Crowley's Significance? (Hitler)
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:05:37 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Just an honest question here.  I haven't read any Crowley, just heard alot
about him.  But my question was wasn't/isn't Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin
fame, a maven of Crowley?  I heard that Page bought Crowley's castle in 
England.  As to comparing Crowley with Hitler, I certainly wouldn't do that.
VERY FEW in history can be compared to Hitler.  Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc.
I don't know that much about Crowley, but I seriously doubt he could possibly
rank with the biggest mass-murderers in the human history.
-- 
BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6390a
Internet: gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:07:13 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <578@kesher.UUCP> aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) writes:
>In article <BtHo0M.3ws@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>>The Torah also commands us to use our logical capabilities to understand
>>the universe.  Modern statistics is concerned with this problem, and the



>Where?

Statistics should be looked upon as the theory of decision making under
uncertainty about the precise laws governing the data, including as yet
unobserved data.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ben nad Jerry's
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:11:39 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

David Gursky
 
TI> From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
TI> Subject: Ben & Jerry's gets kashruth certification
 
TI> Our rabbi has told us that for years people have been 
TI> petitioning B&J to get kosher certification, and it appears 
TI> that they have finally -- last week, a pint of ice cream 
TI> appeared in our house with a heksher on it!
 
Last I checked, Ben and Jerry's New York Super Fudge Chunk (as well 
as others I can't specificially recall) have been certified Kosher 
for several years now...
 
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
 * Origin: The Mac Union - home of baby.sea (1:109/70.394@fidonet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:09:20 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <dobo.715275757@swalwell> dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W.
>Dobosiewicz) writes:

>>The government organised nothing of the kind. The "shop Christian"
>>campaign was organised by political parties that-by accident, maybe-were
>>in opposition to the government of the time. The campaign (and many other
>>antisemitic motions) had considerable success. The government did nothing
>>for or against it. Check your sources.

>Our Polish net.friends would have us believe that antiSemitism was
>government sponsored when Polish territory was controlled by Germany,
>Austria, or Russia.  When it was controlled by a Polish government they
>would have us believe antiSemitism was caused by rogue elements or
>opposition political parties.

>How convenient.

>Revisionism or denial of responsibility?
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

Can you provide us with evidence of official involvment of the polish
government in these matters, Sam?

MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Not a Charm?
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:36:47 GMT

In article <israel.715596792@unixg.ubc.ca> israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel) writes:

>BTW, another reference I'd like to see is to a story from this
>same drasha, in which the Roman emperor and R. Yehuda ha-Nasi
>exchange gifts: a precious jewel from the emperor and a mezuza
>from Rabbi.  The emperor is angry until Rabbi explains that
>while a jewel needs to be guarded, the mezuza will guard the
>emperor.
>
>While I'm sure such a story exists (though I don't think it's in
>the Talmud), it seems to me to be "off the wall".   <|:-)
>The mezuza itself is supposed to guard an idolator (who has no
>connection to the mitzva)?

You know that.  I know that.  Rabbi Yehudah ha-Nasi knew that.  Just don't
tell the Emperor that!

Actually, according to a classicist buddy of mine, the Romans were very
keen on adopting the sponsorship of "local gods", and I can certainly see
an Emperor in Rome appreciating an amulet from one of the local gods of
one of the subject kingdoms.

I can imagine the Emperor turning the mezuzah over to the bureaucrat
responsible for keeping track of this sort of thing, and the mezuzah
ending up nailed to a door in the Imperial country house.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Re: Shofar stinks - Help
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
	<goldberg.715437239@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:30:07


In article <goldberg.715437239@techunix.technion.ac.il>
goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes: 

>  The Shofar being used for a Mizwah, may I suggest to open a
> competition for a word  better fitted than "stink" to describe the problem?

Sure.  I'll submit the word "noisome".  One of my favorite words.  Means
nothing like it sounds like.

Tell people your shofar is noisome, and they won't be sure whether that's
good or bad. 

-- Frank
From: santen@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Marieke.van.Santen.IS-tel-7216)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: yiddish folksongs
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:44:05 GMT
Organization: T W I, Delft University of Technology

Hello,

Recently I bought Volume four of The Anthology of
Yiddish Folksongs, a publication from The Hebrew
University of Jerusalem (Magnes Press).

Now I'm looking desperately for Volumes 1,2 & 3
which are, so it seems, not available here in 
Holland.

Is there anybody out there who knows how and where
I could find them ? 

Thanks in advance,

Shalom,
Mischa
I