HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:54:47 GMT

In article <lk9c71INNn05@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan
Hyder) writes:
> In article <aftab.725638424@nsisrv> aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab
Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:
> >jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:
> >[deletion]...
> :
> :
> ::The whole idea of Pakistan was based on the premise that muslims must
strive
> ::for an Islamic "political" state and the inspiration for such a premise was
> ::said to be derived from Islam. Hence I wanted someone to give me some
evidence
> ::for the premise being made.
> :
> :	Dear Javed. This thread is on the screen for months now. I did not
> :see one historical evidence on the above claim. I will really appreciate if
> :you will join people like myselfin your conversation just by mentioning a
little
> :bit on how you got this idea.
> 
> What type of historical evidence do you want?
> Please, mention specifically?
> 
> I have seen this problem with all the proponents who oppose the
> creation of Pakistan. They always clamor for evidence, but when
> evidence is presented, they turn away.
> 
> 1: Do  you want specific quotations from what Iqbal said about his
>     idea of a separate entity?
> 
> 2: Do you want to know the actual words of  Jinaah in his  speeches?
> 
> 3: If speeches are no good, then do you want specific policy dileneation
>    of Jinnah as in his  14 points?
> 
> 4: If that's no good, do you want to know what Muslim League outlined as
>    its policy in the  objective resolution of 1940, presented by
>    Maulvi Fazlul Haq where Minar-e-Pakistan stands today?
> 
> 5: Do you want to know the manifesto on which Muslim League contested
>    the 1940 elections?
> 
> 6: Do you want to see the actual newspaper clippings of that period,
>    where Jinah, Liaquat ALi khan, Bahadur Yar Jung, and others
>    presented their point of view?
> 
> Please, tell us. We earnestly want to know what type of evidence you
> "will" consider historical evidence?
> 



There is no doubt that Iqbal, Jinnah and others in the Muslim League were
striving for the creation of a muslim majority Islamic state of Pakistan.

The foundation for this struggle was the belief that (correct me if I am wrong)
it is impossible for muslims to stay as a minority and are hence ordained by
Islam that Muslims must strive for the creation of seperate "political"
Islamic states; even if this means that non-muslims and muslims may be forced to
abandon their homelands to move to that Islamic state  and many innocent people
may be killed in the process.

See the distinction. 

--Javed.
From: fsahmed@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Farhan Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Sking in Pakistan
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:25:12 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <lkf2ciINNr9k@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu> hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>In article <1i7ea6INNcds@sumax.seattleu.edu> rathoret@sumax.seattleu.edu (Tariq Rathore) writes:
>>> I am going on a trip to Pakistan in late January. I have heard from a
>>> few people that there have been some ski hills constructed up north,
>>> namely in the Gilgit and Swat areas. I would like to know more about
>>> them, has anyone heard about these places? Are they open for business?
>>> How many runs do they have?
>
>Naltar, about 3-5 hours from Gilgit is a fascinating place.
>The tip of the mountain is lush green and the slopes  filled with 
>snow during winter. Whereas, the lower half of the mountain is
>as devoid of vegetation, or greenery as you can find. 
>Ah, how beautiful was the description of Naltar in Mukhtan Masud's
>Aawaaz-e-dost! Even more beautiful is the actual site!
>
>It is, I think maintained by army.


Yes, the slope at Naltar is used for training purposes by the army
but it is not a full fledged skiing facility - just a short
training slope. Rumor has it that the one in Swat is more elaborate 
and may be a more viable proposition; it being outside of army
jurisdiction. However, I agree, Naltar is gorgeous!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: pakistan moving forwa
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:40:12 EST

To: shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat)

SS> I am very impressed with and very hopeful about our PM.  The
SS> insecurity of a Third World upbringing, a fear of appearing naive
SS> and/or an irrational dislike of all things non-PPP keeps many of us
SS> from expressing our optimism in public.  Nobody wants to sound stupid,
SS> and to many of us the notion that a toilet like Pakistan is
SS> actually developing is simply low-IQ hyperbole.  Well, count me
SS> amongst the retards.  This guy is right for us.  His administration
SS> has launched an active program in several different areas.  He
SS> knows the value of manufacturing.  He wants to minimize the cancer
SS> of domicile quotas.  Now if only the Neanderthal electorate can
SS> keep itself from giving Master Asif's party another majority ....

Well...  talk is talk, but while Asif Zardari was known as "Mr.  10
percent", Nawaz Sharif's brother is now known throughout Pakistan as
"Mr. 90 percent" <laugh and grin>....

Pakistan is developing, but SLOWLY, and to the benefit of people
like Nawaz Sharif.

No effective development is occuring and vital things like education
are STILL in reverse gear: Pakistan's literacy rate (very sadly for
me, as I am a "sachcha" patriot) actually is LOWER now than it was
in the 1960s...

Faraz Rabbani

... Don't confuse The Issue with The Facts!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ss733645@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Sohban Shahid)
Subject: Re: DISGUSTED!!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:05:09 GMT
Reply-To: ss733645@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu
Organization: Colorado State U. Civil Engineering
Keywords: all the *F* words!

In article <1992Dec21.193118.1036@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com>, amjad@qureshi.austin.ibm.com () writes:
|> 
            All intellectual leaps are deleted

Amjad, get a life or atleast get some courage to keep your
actual address on the header.  Your keyword really works,
do you think that 'forged' is the right subset here.

-- 
*********************************************************************

SOHBAN SHAHID                
Civil Engg. Dept.                (303) 491 7710/8204 (work)
Colorado State University        (303) 224 0397  (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523

*********************************************************************
From: sgupta@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Please Help!!! (Music)
Date: 28 Dec 92 13:10:35 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services



Hi there!


There is this song I heard while watching "Tanhaiyan" when the song
comes on the tv and is turned really loud.. I believe it is from an
album (?). A few lines I caught are as follows:

"maine tau kar liya hai, milne ka faisla,
 tum hee se hua a pyar ka silsila"

If anyone knows the artist (from what I heard he is quite famous)
and the album, please mail me!  I really want the whole album 
that this song is in.  Also, please suggest places I can get it from
and if someone is kind enough to mail me a cassette with a recording
of the album, I would gladly reimburse the costs. 

Thankyou! 

Sameer

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.arabic
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Sufi Dhikr @ Los Altos & Oakland
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:30:02 GMT

In <ljhc1pINNfh3@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu> hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:

" In article <1992Dec22.151317.806@hls.com> silatman@hls.com writes:
" >
" >        Dhikr and talks are held on Thursday,
" >     Friday and Saturday evenings. 

" What type of "Dhikr" do you do?
" Is it the same "Dhikr" that Allah has mentioned
" in Quran as:
" 	In-na unzul-na uz- Dhikr-a
" 	wa in-na la-hu la haafizoon

   "'innaa na.hnu nazzalna a_d-_dikra wa 'innaa lahuu la.haafi.zuun"
   
Please, do not attribute to Koran what you are not sure of, or refer
to the meaning.

" 	[Indeed We have sent down the Dhikr and
" 	indeed We will be safeguarding it?]

**
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: !@#$
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:40:30 GMT


In article <1hbgk4INN13q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
writes:
> Stuff Deleted
> 
> >The creation of the Jewish state of Israel solely on the basis of religion
> >which resulted in the mass expulsion of Arabs and non-jews is derided by the
> >entire muslim world and possibly by a large number of Pakistanis; but I've
never
> >understood how the creation of the muslim state of Pakistan was justified in
the
> >same breadth by the same people.
> 
> >--Javed.
> 
> 	Pakistan and India were Created by bisecting pre-1947 India.
> 	People who lived in post-47 India were living there for centuies.
> 	Similarly people who lived in Pakistan lived there for Centuries.
> 	i.e. Baluchis, Panjabis, Sindhis, Bengalis, and Pathans. Yes, huge
> 	trans-border migration took place, but all of the people who now live
> 	in Pakistan and India,  lived in pre 47 India for thousands of years.
> 	Israel on the other hand was created for bringing people who
> 	did not belong to Palestine. In other words, Jews who live in
> 	todays Israel, most of them are of non Palestinian ancestary.
> 	i.e. people of pre 1948 Palestine <> people of Jordan + People of
> 					     Israel + People of West Bank
> 						      of river Jordan.
> 
> 	but people of pre 1947 India = people of modern Pakistan 
> 				     + people of modern India.
>   




I'm not disputing the fact that the people of India and Pakistan belonged to
pre-partition India. I am disputing the ideology that resulted in the creation
of these religion inspired countries. 

In the case of Israel, the majority of the Jews around the world are Semites,
like the Arabs and descendents of the Jewish tribes of the ancient biblical land
comprising present day Israel, who were exiled from their lands.

My argument is that if religion is the sole justification for creating Pakistan,
then the creation of Israel also cannot be faulted on that token.

Before people get worked up, I must make it clear that I support the claims
of the Palestinians in their fight against Israel because the foundation of
the Israeli state is based on morally unacceptable and illegal premises.

But I see the same parallels, though not of the same magnitude, in the creation
of Pakistan.


--Javed.








> Mansoor Khan
> Cleveland, Ohio
> 
> 



One addendum:

The real difference between pre-creation and post-creation of
Pakistan and Israel is that Pakistan's borders were defined by
the principle of creating a country in a region where there already
was a Muslim majority.  However, Israel's principle was to find a place
first and then settle it with Jewish immigrants from around the world.
Palestine had a far greater Arab population under Turks as well as
British

Omar
omar.faroq@att.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18776 soc.culture.bangladesh:7074 soc.culture.indian:41936
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 24 Dec 1992 22:34:02 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Nishit writes:
>	Question - What is the difference between Mustafa Idiot and a DONKEY?
>
>	Answer - Hmm.. let me think..  Yeah  Mustafa has a longer tail.
>	Hey fafat , you want to add anything?

	Nishit, you disappoint me. How many times do I have to tell you
	to be dumb to kind animals?? Now that Donkey (no, not Mustafa :)
	is all in rootha business because you talk about Mustafa's
	tail in the same breath. I would have tht there would be a better
	benchmark for comparing Mustafa. Say our dear NiRmmala... :) You
	don't even have to bother with tails :)

	FFT



Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:19128 soc.culture.indian:42712
From: fall266@cse.unl.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Appology demmanded from dchatterjee
Date: 4 Jan 1993 02:07:25 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:



>   - stay alive Mr.Syed Naqvi,

>         deb chatterjee
>       (a good samaritan)

>   P.S: Read the New Testament and the Parable of the Good Samaritan. Christ
>        (PUBH) explains the Ten Commandments via this example to his followers.

I have decided to sent all his mail to the net.  He is a guy who has no repect 
of the rights of others.  If he will not ask for and apology from the net for
the use of "good  landuage " for pakistan then I will tell the whole history of samaritanity and ...... in the net.

 	You should not think that last time I expected that you will show 
some decancy.	
I never understood the meaning of the proverb " angrez chale gai lekin
olad chor gai or bhugatni hamain par rahi hay"  it means that when britishers
were leveing they left their kids arround.  these kids created lots of problems
for us.  but since I read your mail I understood what does it mean.


DO NOT USE THE NAME OF GOOD SAMRITON AND JESUS THESE WORDS DO NOT MACH  WITH 
YOUR "GOOD " LANGUGE. THIS IS LAST THREAT THAT IF YOU WILL NOT WATCH YOUR MOUTH I WILL INFORME THE POSTSMASTER AS YOU DID FOR THE POSTING YOU HAVE BEEN DOING.



Dear Postmaster,


-----------  deleted------------
I urge you to take the strongest possible action against the person
involved including suspension of USENET priviledges from the account.
I believe in the free expression of ideas but I dont think bigotry or
hatred based on religious preferences should be any part of that.

As a practising member of the religion that was singled out for abuse
in this posting, I feel offended and humiliated. Please let me know
what action you propose to take, so that this is not repeated in the
future. 

Regards,

Samit

WHAT DO YOU THINK MR SAMIT ABOUT MR DEB!  READ HIS MAIL ABOUT 
PAKISTAN.  

_______________________________________________________________
HERE MR DEB HAS SHOWN HIS DEFINATION OF FREE SPEACH:


 Abbey, astaghfirrullah choop ho ja !

 Mujhe jo likhna hai, likhney de ! Tera keya kabab main haddi hain ????

  - deb chatterjee


MR DEB IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH ME OR ANY BODY USE YOUR LANGUAGE 
I DONT CARE.  BUT IF YOU WILL NOT TAKE YOUR MAIL BACK ABOUT PAKISTAN THEN
BETTER GET READY TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAY INCLUDE 
DELETION OF YOUR ACCOUNT
RELPAY TO YOU WITH THE SAME LANGUAGE
ETC. ETC.
WE ALL KNOW HOW TO TYPE DIRTY LANGUAGE ABOUT EVERY THING BUT VERY FEW 
GOOD SAMARITON HAVE THE CHARACTER TO WRITE SUCH LANGUAGE ABOUT A COUNTRY

 (a good samaritan)



SYED AGHA SAEED
From: sohan+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Date: 21 Dec 92 08:07:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofBUTRy00WAo81XFR1
	<1992Dec18.171447.9687@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Organization: Systems Group 82, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.pakistan: 18-Dec-92 Re: Washington
Ready to Bra.. Farooq M. Butt@engage.sp (2937)
> So what should Pakistan do: IMHO, we should immediately begin attracting 
> non-Western capital (i.e. Japanese, Malaysia, Chinese etc.) by 
> *whatever means we have to* and create Far-Eastern interests in Pakistan.

Blind spot there? I guess maybe near-eastern interests are not that
attractive :-)

> fmb



___
Sohan C. Ramakrishna-Pillai
Office: UCC 181	Phone: x6406 [(412)268-6406]

 "In the beginning, man created beer, and it was good. God was
  created shortly thereafter." Gospel According to Brew, 1:1
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS)
Subject: : ) Just-a-Joke (:
Keywords: head(s)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:01:03 GMT

	A very religious friend told this joke the other day. Let me share
it with those who won't press n now.

	This guy changed his religion. Priest told him that he must
circumcise (sp?). He said "what? no way! I am going back to my old 
religion".
	Priest said, "but the punishment for going back (irtidaad) is
being beheaded".
	He said, What a religion! If you join, you get one head cut if you
leave you get the other head cut!
-- 
Ruler told Socrates 'You think, therefore you are not'
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:19018 soc.culture.indian:42500 soc.culture.bangladesh:7226
From: rajesh@juniper (Rajesh Raman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 1 Jan 1993 22:16:14 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: juniper.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

: 	Nonsense.  Science has plenty to say for divine causes and supernatural
: 	entities: it calls them superstitition.  
: 
: 
: 
: 							smg

	Well, anything we can't prove we call superstition. Doesn't
	that smirk of vainness ?! If later we happen to discover
	that there was truth in it we don't call it superstition any
	longer. That's funny. Man is not all-knowing. That is why we
	cannot say that anything we cannot explain does not exist, that
	it is superstition. We cannot do that. 

--

Rajesh Raman

--
From: imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Difference
Date: 25 Dec 92 07:32:07 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

In article <1he71tINNvj@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>Mustafa Ibrahim writes:
>>>	Anyday, anyday. I'm yet to come across a Mustafa Ibrahim species 
>>>	amongst non-religious animals so I guess I'll thank you for that
>>>	advice :)
>>>
>>>	FFT 
>>
>>So in the society of animals , you have been recogniezed as FFT :-)
>>That is a good news . At last you get the place you really deserve.
>>:-) 
>>Be happy toad.
>
>	Tell me something, don't they teach grave digging at your mines
>	institute? Dig one, jump into it and pull the mud over yourself.
>	Not only because you're MUSTAFA IBRAHIM but also because you're
>	Asim Mughal's katlu donkey :) You'll save Deb some trouble with
>	"a moral responsibility to choke Mustafa" :) 
>
>	FFT
>	
>	PS: If name calling is all this takes, why, here's the first stone
>	at Katlu Ibrahim: IBRAHIM MUSTAFA! :)
>	PPS: Don't bother with death threats. Toads are immune to impotent
>	asses like MUSTAFA IBRAHIM.

Realising my moral responsibility I have already chocked your deb by
sending his obnoxious e-mail to the MSA(muslim student association) 
net. Aslo he rcieved a warning from the system manager in Concordia
University to behave like a man :-))))))
Now he is in another university.
Why should I bother by death threats off course I am not fft :-))
By the way toad is the only animal that I hate from the bottom 
of my heart.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: This Turkey............
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 07:15:53 GMT


Dear Turkey,

I just posted an article telling the Turkish rule over a large area of the
world in Africa and Arabia was a terrorist rule. I must revise it just a little
bit....  The Turkish rule was oppressive and brutal, that is true, however,
it was not a terrorist state as per todays definition.

Now, coming to this anonymity thing, I am just a leetle bit curious about
Mr. Ahmed or is it Ahmet ? Mansoor Dude has raised a good question, and I
for one am going to follow  up on it.

So, let me just say, Thanksgiving is done. Are you a real Turkey, or just a
turkey coming into season.....?

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18842 soc.culture.bangladesh:7119 soc.culture.indian:42051
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Appology demmanded from dchatterjee
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:51:01 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1hi9umINNn1k@crcnis1.unl.edu>, fall217@cse.unl.edu () writes:
>  I want to clearify one thing that I am not agree with the 
> thoughts of mr.shams either.  Dont assume that I am supporting 
> such kind of things.
> syed agha saeed
>

   Hello ???????:

     You have sent a physical threat to Mr.Khalequzzuman. I have sent the
   copies of posting from SCB to many others. Don't worry sir, we have sent
   demands to your sys. admin. regarding your vile posting. Since your English
   is basically garbage, i.e similar to the bullock-cart drivers in any 3rd
   world country, you have quite conveniently chosen to interpret your foolish
   attempt as "misunderstanding". This is absolutely a show of cowardice. Yes,
   the proof is there. I AM NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE for what I wrote to Shams
    Hasan. Mr.Hasan is (hopefully) more efficient than yourself to write better
    English, and, he will be able to get back to my post. 

    In this country, since you could "sneak in" somehow (????), without an iota
    of knowledge in English, you should *not* be allowed to post. Because the
    newsgroups are meant for persons who have a good command of English.

    To exemplify on the last point, read the postings of Javed Ahmed Khan,
    Naufal A.Khan, Mirza Ilyas, Anisul Haque, Zunaid Kazi and others. I have
    quoted only those names with whom, I feel that you can safely (8-),8-))
    communicate. Others also regularly post on SCI, SCB, SCP and to broaden
    your horizons, you may read them.

    Please *DO NOT* try to negotiate or be pretentious and justify what you
    have done. (You  have issued a *physical threat*, period.) I still have
    the posting. Thus, crawl back to your creepy hole, and, remain there. The
    issue is dead, mr. ????. We need not discuss this further. You may bark
    on the network, but then doing it too much will strain your vocal chords.

      - deb chatterjee
     (a good samaritan)  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18936 soc.culture.indian:42271 soc.culture.bangladesh:7177