HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car dealers
Date: 6 Jan 93 06:12:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <1id4ghINNseu@anthrax.solbourne.com> kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>Because the Bay Area is large.  For every person that they piss off, there are
>most likely hundreds who do buy from them because they don't know better.  It's
>been my experience that most Bay Area dealers are slime.  My favorite example
>is Oak Tree Mazda.  Not only did their salesperson ask "who wears the pants in

I had similarly lame experiences there when shopping MX-6s a few months ago.

>between my wife and I must be like.  Likewise, I found the sales folk at
>Sunnyvale Ford to be more than a little slimy as well.  Don't even get me

*extremely* slimy in my case -- only Fremont Ford was worse.  Well, Frontier
was right up there (down there?) as well.

I visited every Ford dealership in the South Bay and Peninsula area when
shopping for my Probe.  The only one I could recommend is Ed Chovanes in
San Leandro.  Towne in Redwood City was okay.  The rest were impossible.

Just my 62 pesos.

--
Alan Denney       aland@informix.com        {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

"Feel free to hit 15-pound jackrabbits with your Saturn."  - Charles Guest
From: frankc@tgf.tc.faa.gov (Frank Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Warranties and driveway maintance.
Summary: Can I change my oil without voiding my warranty?
Keywords: warranty maintanence.
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:45:57 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: offserv2.faa.gov

While auditioning a new Plymouth Minivan as a prospective buyer, I popped
the hood and asked the salesman about the location of the oil filter.  He
told me to forget about changing oil myself because it would void
the super-dooper powertrain warrenty if I did my own oil changes.

Is this correct or was he trting to divert my attention from a hard-to-get-at
filter?

 
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-  Frank Coffman	frankc@tgf.tc.faa.gov                      -
-			FAA Technical Center, Mail Stop ACN-400c   - 
- 			Atlantic City Int'l Airport, NJ 08405      -
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chrz@tellabs.com (Peter Chrzanowski)
Subject: Re: Taurus tops Accord as #1 Seller in U.S.
Keywords: Maybe it's a case of fleet vs. personal use...
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:39:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.153441.10216@metter.fmpmis.metter.com>, virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (P. Virgo) writes:
> 
> This morning, I heard on the radio that the Taurus had finally topped the
> Accord as the best-selling car in the U.S.
> 
> Anybody else heard about this?? Anybody got numbers to back this up??

Daily newspapers have been carrying AP stories on this.  They've also
been saying that Ford 'bought' first place by offering deep discounts
to retail buyers and leasors.

On the other hand, the combined sales of Taurus/Sable have exceeded Accord's
for many years.

BTW, second and third place are held by Honda Accord and Toyota Camry,
respectively.  I wonder if the Consumers Reports stories about the
malfunctioning Camry power door locks will affect Camry sales.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Chain Driven "New" Cars?
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na 
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:47:02 GMT

In <1i7ni9INNisj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:



>>ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>  The only thing that concerns me about these cars is how the transmission
>>>is linked to the gearbox. The engine is not tranverse mounted, but 
>>>longitudinally mounted which is fine. The car is front wheel driven,
>>>which is also OK. The transmission mounts to the back of the engine,
>>>and is very similar to the conventional front-engine/rear-wheel-driven
>>>design, but is linked to front gearbox using a chain. 
>>>-- 

>>Based on the above experience, I wouldn't worry about the chain. it is about
>>the most reliable part of the trasmission.
>>-- Dan Meyer


>The stresses in a chain linking the engine to the transmission via a
>torque-converter would be somewhat less than a chain linking the
>transmission to the the gear box. In the later case, the RPM would
>be signifigantly less, but forces signifigantly greater. I'm more interested
>in the history of the use of chains in the later stages of of the
>drive train actually. ...  Chains have always been used in engines
>to drive the cam shaft, and now-a-days even gear belts are doing the
>job reliably. Though, it will be a while before we see gear belts in the drive

Reliably maybe, but did you ever see a requirement that you change the
timing chain at 60,000 miles?

>trains of automobiles I would guess?

The first Honda's had chain drive from the rear axle to the wheels so
that they could have a trailing link type suspension. Guess they did
not turn out to be reliable, since they switched to FWD.

Bob.




>-- 
>Josh Lackey III      Internet E-Mail:     ce423@cleveland.freenet.edu 
>                                          lackey@eglin.af.mil
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:00:33 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <lkpk2eINNeo4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>Could someone please describe the technology tradeoffs between
>large-displacement (mostly US) engines, and multi-valve engines
>with smaller displacement?  I'm wondering whether US technology
>is just behind, or whether I'm missing something.
>
     Probably.  How about the 4+ liter multi-valve engines in the
     Caddy and Lincoln's?

>
>I've heard that a double overhead cam requires less tuning than
>a pushrod or single overhead cam, because of greater rotational
>efficiency.  Is the main reason for larger displacement to produce
>greater torque with similar fuel consumption?
   
   You would be confusing the issue of small high revving engines
   with large low revving engines by worrying about where the valves
   are.  Its just that it is easier to make a high revving engine if
   you use OHC's or DOHC's.   


>
>When Ford needed a DOHC engine for the Taurus SHO, they just had
>Yamaha build it.  I know Saturn produces some very nice SOHC and
>DOHC engines, but GM doesn't seem to use these anywhere else in its
>product line.  And Chrysler still produces mostly pushrod engines.

   Check out the Northstar Caddy engine.  And the new Ford/Lincoln
   engine in the Mark VII


   Seriously, a lot of it had to do with materials quantity/cost as
   well as fuel costs.  

   If the engine materials are inexpensive, a large, slow-revving
   engine has longevity advantages over a small high revving engine.
   This USED to be such a fact of automobile engineering that Road
   and Track used to post the vehicle speed at which piston travel
   was 2500 feet/minute...the (at the time) safe long-term cruising
   limit for cast iron blocks, ordinary rings...etc.   The small
   high revving engines of the day typically required more frequent
   and careful maintenance in order to meet the lifetimes easily
   available with the lightly stressed American big iron...and
   typical non-maintenance of the American driver.  

   The biggest reason for the two philosophies was fuel costs.  A
   pint of fuel in most countries cost more than a gallon in the US.

   The stereotype of engines is today just that.  The BIGGEST V-8's
   in passenger cars are German (this eliminates trucks and the
   Viper).  The Japanese engines in their luxo models are about the
   same size as American engines.  And American engines much over 5
   liters (which used to be considered very small in the late 60's
   and 70's) are quite rare.

   We have had our share of high tech engines.....some still exist,
   some don't.         




Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger)
Subject: Re: Handling of 85 Toyota Celicas
Reply-To: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 18:32:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.165704.4053@wam.umd.edu>, asher@wam.umd.edu (Yes it's me....Asher) writes:
|> 	Hi !
|> 
|> 		I recently bought a used 85 Toyota Celica. Overall, it's 
|> 	alright, but the handling sucks. Whenever the car goes over bumps,
|> 	it literally "shifts", that is, it just "jumps". I used to own a 82
|> 	Tercel and it could handle turns (and bumps) at high speeds really
|> 	well. I was wondering if anyone else has similar problems with 
|> 	Celica's or if anyone has any advice that I could use. Thanks.
|> 	BTW, I have thought about my shocks. They are in fairly good shape,
|> 	and I  doubt if they are the cause of the problem. Thanks.
|> 
|> 
|> 							.......Asher.


Asher.. if your '85 Celica is the GT model, it has the same
suspension as the Supra's of that year.. and I can promise you
the suspension and handling shouldn't "suck"!

The symptom you describe is a classic one of worn out shocks, or
on this car - in the front McPherson struts. You claim they are
"in fairly good shape" - what is "fairly good shape"?? - not bent?
still there? not leaking?  How EXACTLY did you determine this???

Are all the suspension components original? How many miles are on
the car?? Did the former owner(s) do a suspension upgrade? Perhaps
stiffer springs, rally shocks??

Me thinks you need to clarify this a bit, and THEN perhaps someone
can help!

Don Eilenberger

PS: Have you checked your tire pressure? Could be WAY too high, will
give this sort of symptom.

PPS: My '83 Supra - which I'd bought 2nd hand, had shocks put in it
in the rear by the first owner at Sears. Turns out the Sears shocks
were LONGER than the stock shocks, and only had about 1" of compression
left when the car was sitting level (should have had about 5"). This
made for a VERY(!!) rough ride - and gave symptoms such as you describe.
You might want to crawl under and see if the shocks are from Sears..
the Sear's catalog lists the same number for the Supra and the GT Celica..

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Tires of the Integra
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:52:58 GMT

In article <1ifu5pINN7s4@fido.asd.sgi.com> jice@echo.asd.sgi.com (John Eisenman) writes:
>The time has come for me to replace my tires on my '88 Integra.
>I have been following the recommendations in the group and elsewhere
>and have some idea as to which tires to purchase.  However, as I am
>still a novice care owner (I never purchased tires before), I still
>have a few questions.
>
>The tires that came with the car are:
>
>	Yokohama AX-323   195/60R14 85H
>
>In this group, I usually see the size listed as HR14.  What does the
>H mean?  High performance?  Also, what does the 85H mean?
>
>My mechanic sells the Michelin MXV2 and MXV3 as well as the XGT H4 for
>$103 and the XGTV for $115.  However, I see that nobody on the net likes
>the MXV's.
>
>I am considering the following tires:
>
>	Yokahama A509
>	Yokohama AVS A+4
>	Dunlop D40M2
>	Michelin XGT H4
>	Goodyear Eagle GT+4
>
standard reply:  whatever you buy get them mail order from tire rack, 1-800-
428-8355 or call teletire, 1-800-835-8473....much better prices even considering
that you must go pay to have them balanced and mounted.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sahul@loading-zone.Stanford.EDU (Zakir H. Sahul)
Subject: Before Buying Foreign (was Re: Before Buying Japanese).
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 02:46:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.214149.22770@sco.com>, garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:
|> 
|> But if you eliminate your prejudices, does it matter if I buy American
|> or Japanese? Fine, I'll get out of this discussion by buy buying German 8-).
|> 

Prejudicies aside, it DOES matter.  The final top label (German/Japanese/American)
does not matter.  But the US content of the product does matter.  If people in
this country were employed making the product, then they will be able to...

1) Spend that money buying other products, thereby, creating more jobs.
     More People with jobs ==> More money being spent in the economy ==>
     More Computer Systems sold ===> Greater demand for SCO products ===>
     SCO revenues and profits increase ==> Gary H gets a raise ==>
     Spends his extra money ===> More People with jobs.
     
   Or conversely:
     Fewer People with jobs ==> Less money being spent in the economy ==> 
     Fewer Computer Systems sold ===> Much Smaller Demand for SCO products ==>
     SCO lays off people ==> Gary H out of a job.  ==> Fewer People with jobs.

2) Spend that money paying taxes to the government which
   - gives us a strong defense
   - funds education
   - funds research at universities (which BTW is in MY interest)
   - which provides Social Security benefits to the elderly
   - goes to building/repairing those great highways and biways that 
     people love to drive on.
   - etc.
   
   The employed peoples of Germany or Japan do not provide these services for
   Americans.  Although, we should probably campaign...

etc.

Many people tend to think "Hey, I am not in the XXX industry.  My decision to
purchase a foreign product is not going to affect me and my job in any way."

How dead wrong they are!



Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Eugene Chu)
Subject: Re: READ THIS: HELP mustang GT wont start
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:58:13 GMT

In article <BzzM3o.K89@news.cso.uiuc.edu> djr48312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dennis Robinson) writes:
>
>Today I was driving along in my used '89 mustang GT and it shut off.  This
>was after I was reaching under the seat for something and ended up with
>a strange plastic cap in my hand.  As soon as I noticed I had this cap in
>my hand the engine stuttered and eventually stopped.  I pulled the car over
>to the side and tried to start it.  The starter turned with its usual vigor,
>also the headlamps and stereo worked fine.  So I looked under the seat
>(driver side front) and saw some device hooked up to 3 wires.  The cap fit
>onto this device.  WIthout the "cap" the device looked like a bunch of metal
>plates and had a small spring along the side of it.  There was a black mark
>as if it had been shorted.  I tried to reset the fuel shut off also but that
>was not the problem.  Now the car sits there and will crank but not connect.
>Any help will be appreciated.
>
>Dennnis J Robinson

Dennis,

What you pulled up in your hand was the cover of the fuel pump relay.
The relay is computer actuated, and it provides power to the fuel pump
which in turn supplies pressurized fuel to the fuel injectors of the
engine.  When you pulled the cap off, you probably damaged the relay,
shutting off the pump and any fuel to your engine.  This little device
may be gotten for around $30 from your local Ford dealer, and should be
fairly easy to install, as you probably know by now.  I won't argue the
sensibility of putting such a critical component under the driver's seat,
but now you know what it is.

eyc
-- 
>:<  Me:  Eugene Chu (Mr. Butterfly)        | Radar Science & Engineering  >:<
>:<  chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov               | Jet Propulsion Laboratory    >:<
"T'is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness"
But t'is so much easier to curse the darkness.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: CPB004@email.comm.mot.com (Philip Bush)
Subject: Info on 2nd SHO Convention enclosed
Organization: Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:28:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos

Hi,

I got this info in the snail mail yesterday, concerning the upcoming 2nd
annual SHO Registry National Convention.

When:  August 19-22
Where: Atlanta, GA, Marriot-Northwest, I-75 & Windy Hill (exit 110)
Hotel Rates: $59.00/night, mention SHO Registry Convention
Hotel Reservations: (800) 228-9290 or (404) 952-7900

Itinerary:
Thursday: Registration and arrival, vendors set up by noon.
     6:00-8:00pm Welcome Reception or Braves/Dodgers game
Friday:  Morning, Ford Hapeville Assembly Plant tour
     Afternoon: Performance and technical seminars
     Evening: open, possible events include Six Flags over Georgia, White
Water/Great Adventure Theme Park, Stone Mountain and the Laser Show,
Underground Atlanta, etc.
Saturday:  Morning: Driving School at Atlanta Motor Speedway, price under
$100.
     Evening: Banquet Dinner, awards ceremony
Sunday: SHO SHOw, at the hotel.

Other details: Hotel has 400 rooms, a sports lounge, a restaurant, an
indoor/outdoor pool, a health club, saunas, a salon, lighted tennis courts,
a car wash area, 800 parking spaces.  From Friday night, attendees of the
Convention will park in their own lot, roped off exclusively for their use.

35 vendors interested in attending, over a third already committed.  Early
registrants for the convention qualify to win a Borla Exhaust.

For other info or registration information contact:

SHO Registry, Peachtree Chapter
4170 East Meadow Drive
Duluth, Georgia  30136
(404) 242-0214
(404) 214-8864 fax

We attended the 1st Annual SHO Registry National Convention in Peoria last
July.  If SHOs get your motor running, you won't believe the thrill of
seeing 40 or 50 of them in trail racing down the highway, or an entire
parking lot full of them.  I'd never seen a dealer with 60 SHOs in the lot
before last year, and neither will you, if you don't attend this year.  Be
there!!!

Following an earlier suggestion, I have a:
1991 SHO, Mocha/Mocha, 211A, rod shifter, fiberglass hood.

/===============================================================\
| Philip Bush                      |     National Champion      |
| Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, IL   |    SHO Convention Show     |
| Email: CPB004@email.comm.mot.com |    3rd Place - Concours    |
| Phone: (708) 576-3175            |           Judged           |
\===============================================================/
From: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: LH test-drive results (by a buyer)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 19:49:54 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Reply-To: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: gimme.cc.uh.edu


Hi,

I understand saying that "Assembling" is the lowest tech of all the
phases of manufacturing is not always correct, but considering
auto-manufacturing, we can clearly see the trend that the Japanese are
assembling their cars here in the USA, much of which is done by robots
anyway, isn't it?

Of course, then, they say that their cars are "Made in USA" so as to
evade tariffs & the like. But, where is the major bulk of the profits
going to? Are the profits going to our assembling plant workers?
Undoubtedly, the Japanese companies are the ones reaping all that
profits. What do you call this? The transfer of American wealth across
the Pacific!

--
Arthur 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou)
Subject: Re: '93 Probe GT in snow.
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:09:04 GMT

turner@ss20.cps.msu.edu (Stephen Turner) writes:
: 2) does anyone have a good estimate of how much it would cost to get
:    some normal wheels with all-season radials, etc., that could be
:    put on in fall and taken off in spring?  (Does anyone ever DO this?)
:

You might as well put on four snow tires in fall and switch back to performance
tire in spring. People here in Edmonton do this on a regular basis.

: -Steve Turner (turner@cps.msu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: How About that Ford!
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:45:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.125026.16258@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@Turing.ORG (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.234804.18541@pentagon-gw.army.mil> grant@pentagon-gw.army.mil (Pete Grant) writes:
>>The news is out and official:  Ford Taurus is the best selling
>>car in the United States, beating out Honda Accord that has
>>held this spot for nearly 10 years now.
>>
>>Well done, Ford!
>
>
>Not so fast, according to Automobile Magazine.
>The 10 best selling cars for the '92 model year are:
>
>Honda Accord                           387,881
>Ford Taurus                            347,534
>Toyota Camary                          277,792
>Ford Escort                            244,231
>Chevrolet Lumina                       219,120
>Ford Tempo                             213,352
>Chevrolet Cavalier                     212,675
>Toyota Corolla                         206,560
>Honda Civic                            204,842
>Pontiac Grand Am                       198,596
>
>Sales data compiled by AUTOFACTS of West Chester PA.

whatever - if you noted that 6 of the above cars are American
- that's what makes the difference

-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Tires of the Integra
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:03:11
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com's message of Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:32:01 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:32:01 GMT, leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG) said:

 Dunlop D40M2

leonglaw> D40M2's are in 40% aspect ratio (correct me if I'm wrong).
leonglaw> If you fit this, you'll either have FAT tires or have to
leonglaw> change rims.  The D60M2 may be the one.  Don't take the
leonglaw> D60A2 tho'.

I have the D60M2's on my 89 LS. Drove like a totally diffent car after
those damn MVX's. I don't know what possessed Acura to put those tires
on there cars.


--
 Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1