HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blackmon@eng.auburn.edu (Ferrol Rawson Blackmon)
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
Reply-To: blackmon@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:20:16 GMT

In article 29948@usenet.ins.cwru.edu, ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws) writes:
> 
> In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
> on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
>  for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
> certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
>  ABA membership.

Hehehehehhehehe   Dream on, Sweethard!!!!!

> Furthermore, I urge that all pro-lifers who are in need of legal
>  representation before hiring an attornet ask if they are a member
> of the ABA. If they answer yes, inform them of your opposition
>  to abortion and your disgust at the ABA's position. Then look
>  for a pro-life non-ABA member attorney. Lawyers for Life is
>  a good start in locating such an attorney. 

Yeah, I hear that both of them are pretty good.

> I expect
> that thousands upon thousands of lawyers will be rescinding
>  their ABA membership in the near future based on yesterday's
>  pro-abortion rights vote.

Hehehehehehhehe,   Dream on, Sweethard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> The number for Lawyers for Life is 216-566-7550.
> 

Oh yeah, I'm rushing to call.  Do I get a free sports bloopers video for calling
right now?  Or maybe a free Jimmy Swaggart: How I pick up chicks video.

> Anyone wishing to protest directly to the ABA can write to them at:
> 
> 
> 750 N. Lakeshore Dr.
> Chicago, Il. 60611
> -- 
> "Life what a beautiful choice" (Thanks to the Arthur Demoss Foundation)

You mean that same Arthur Demoss terrorist that was showing offensive material on
network television?  Well, I personally think that anyone who would show such 
offensive material is probably a "Com-murn-nist".

"Choice, what a beautiful life" -- Ferrol Funkmeister X 
                                    (yes, that boy IS an Ice-t disciple)
From: dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Segmentation Fault Co
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:57:54 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Aug19.025525.710@zooid.guild.org> 
goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:

>114984@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Steven Arnold) writes...

>>         And I don't think cripples, gays or Jews make particularly good
>> citizens.  Killing them is a positive moral good to the human race and
>> to the planet.

> I *CANNOT* believe that I just saw this...

That quote was taken out of context by Russ Cage.  Mr. Arnold was comparing 
some other poster's reasoning with the reasoning above.  Write to Mr. Arnold,
and I''m sure he'll be glad to explain it to you.   


>Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"


Doug Holtsinger
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:01:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.051846.29948@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws) writes:
>
>In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
>on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
> for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
>certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
> ABA membership. I urge all lawyers who oppose abortion to do
> likewise.

Good, there are too many barred lawyers anyway.  I don't mind if a bunch of 'em 
commit career-suicide.


-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging  and                      knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
            Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
From: ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws)
Subject: ABA Protest
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 05:18:46 GMT


In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
 for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
 ABA membership. I urge all lawyers who oppose abortion to do
 likewise.
Furthermore, I urge that all pro-lifers who are in need of legal
 representation before hiring an attornet ask if they are a member
of the ABA. If they answer yes, inform them of your opposition
 to abortion and your disgust at the ABA's position. Then look
 for a pro-life non-ABA member attorney. Lawyers for Life is
 a good start in locating such an attorney. However, I expect
that thousands upon thousands of lawyers will be rescinding
 their ABA membership in the near future based on yesterday's
 pro-abortion rights vote. So a pro-life, non-ABA member attorney
 shouldn't be hard to find.
The number for Lawyers for Life is 216-566-7550.

Anyone wishing to protest directly to the ABA can write to them at:


750 N. Lakeshore Dr.
Chicago, Il. 60611
-- 
"Life what a beautiful choice" (Thanks to the Arthur Demoss Foundation)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: ABA Protest
From: jfinn@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Aug 92 14:41:21 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Aug14.170115.2124@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.051846.29948@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws) writes:
>>
>>In light of the American Bar Associations vote to support abortion
>>on demand I am posting the Cleveland area phone number of Lawyers
>> for Life. This organization is a group of pro-life lawyers. I am
>>certain that most (hopefully all) will immediately suspend their
>> ABA membership. I urge all lawyers who oppose abortion to do
>> likewise.
> 
> Good, there are too many barred lawyers anyway.  I don't mind if a bunch of 'em 
> commit career-suicide.
  



John E. Finn
Wesleyan University
From: mjp@itd.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Mall of America
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:41:59 GMT

zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:

>>I hear K mart stores arevery popular in OZ.  What are shopping centers like  
>>Down Under?  Considering the suburban nature of Australia, do they serve the  
>>role of a community center like many of them do in the States>
No, not especially, there are a few of them, but they are
losing money, and K-Mart here is owned by Coles-Myer.

I would say Target and Myer are the popular stores these
days in OZ.

>Depends.  Forexample, the Rundle Mall is a pedestrian mall - a street closed
>to traffic.  IT is a meeting/social place.  One of the things fronting
>onto it is the Remm Centre, which is more like a US mall, incl. roller
>coaster and food hall.  IT is less of a social place, more like somwhere
>to go to do specific things (like ride on said roller coaster).

Also abutting the Rundle mall is the Myer Centre which is a
4 or 5 story complex done up in pseudo old world look.
This complex has been an economic disaster, being partially
responsible for the 2.3billion $A debt of our state bank.

They should have been able to predict this given that the
myer centre in brisbane was up and running and losing money 
before this one was built.

Michael
--
Michael Pilling				Phone: +61 8 259 7017
Software Engineering Group		Fax: +61 8 259 5980
Information Technology Division		Telex: AA82799
DSTO Australia				michael_pilling@itd.dsto.gov.au
From: fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: TIFF Pictures
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:45:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (College Eight)
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Aug12.112523.14243@ausom.oz.au> rkay@ausom.oz.au (Richard Kay) writes:
>PS: What is the story on the "Super-Mall" that we saw on TV down here
>and which has just opened in the U.S?

It's a very, very big shopping mall.  With an amusement park.

The people behind this are the same as the ones behind the West
Edmonton Mall in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, which until this one was
the largest mall in the world.  (It may still be the largest one.)

 =Aaron=
-- 
Aaron Priven, aaronrp@ucscb.ucsc.edu or fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu
        "Men make history, but they do not do so under 
         conditions of their own choosing." -- Karl Marx
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Mall of America
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:31:52 GMT
Organization: Information Technology Division, The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA

dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman) writes:

>I hear K mart stores arevery popular in OZ.  What are shopping centers like  
>Down Under?  Considering the suburban nature of Australia, do they serve the  
>role of a community center like many of them do in the States>

Depends.  Forexample, the Rundle Mall is a pedestrian mall - a street closed
to traffic.  IT is a meeting/social place.  One of the things fronting
onto it is the Remm Centre, which is more like a US mall, incl. roller
coaster and food hall.  IT is less of a social place, more like somwhere
to go to do specific things (like ride on said roller coaster).

Suburban malls are more like hangouts, Tea Tree Plaza is one such.  But
al lot of shopping is done in uncovered areas, so they don't become hangouts.


Most capitl cities have a Rundle Mall equivalent, which people will specifically
go to for social purposes.  Oz is very capital city oriented.


(Excuse typos.  This VT100 is an example of a non-working antique...)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman)
Subject: Re: test
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:02:58 GMT

In article <hoconnel.713580139@plasma> hoconnel@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Heath  
O'Connell) writes:
> 
> This is a test.

That's one of the better tests I've seen in a while.  8.9 from the Olympic  
judges.

--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban,alt.suburbs,chi.general
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: RFD: misc.transit
Followup-To: news.groups 
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:39:32 GMT

In case you haven't already seen it, here is the official RFD for
misc.transit. After this was posted, some other people suggested 
that misc.transport or misc.public-transport might be a better name.
 
 Discussions in news.groups, please.

 Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.consumers,
 rec.autos,rec.bicycles,rec.railroad,rec.travel,sci.engr.civil,
 sci.environment,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,ba.transportation
 Subject: RFD: misc.transit
 Message-ID: <1992Aug11.034205.4656@uunet.uu.net>
 Followup-To: news.groups
 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
 Organization: UCAR
 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 03:42:05 GMT
 Lines: 25

This is a Request for Discussion for a proposed new group for discussion
of general transit issues.

Proposed name:  misc.transit.

Other names have been suggested, such as talk.politics.transit.  Those
of us who are proposing this newsgroup hope that it will include discussions
about design and engineering of transit systems as well as political
discussions, and prefer the name misc.transit.  The suffix .transportation
has also been proposed.

Proposed status:  unmoderated

Proposed charter:  discussion of the economics, politics, design, and
engineering of transportation systems.  Topics might include existing
and planned bus, subway, light rail, bikeway, maglev, and highway
systems, planning roads for concurrent bicycle usage, local policies
of buses and trains on issues such as handicap accessibility and carrying
bicycles, designing new transit systems, politics and economics of
encouraging public transportation, and so on.

Discussion will take place in news.groups.

Nigel Allen (Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu)
Ilana Stern (ilana@ncar.ucar.edu)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: rkay@ausom.oz.au (Richard Kay)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Announcing 1994 Planning Conference
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:34:00 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

ANNOUNCEMENT:

The Royal Australian Planning Institute
Biennial Conference
6 - 10 March 1994
Wrest Point Convention Centre
Hobart, Tasmania
Australia




"A Sense Of Place....A Place For People"

Planning and design have always been about
the inter-relationships of people with the
environment, both in terms of its adaption to suit
our needs and increasingly, in respect of our
dependence upon it. This concern about the
impact of human activity on the environment has
been reflected in the 1992 conference theme.

In light of wider environmental, social and
economic issues how can we recapture, sustain,
enhance or create anew, the special qualities and
character of our built and natural environment, as
places to work, live, rest, play or even just
acknowledge?

Planning and design are about both product and
processes, and it is the environment and the
community that together provides..............

"A Sense of Place....A Place For People."

The 1994 Conference will aim to explore, discuss,
anylyse, criticise and prescribe what planning
should be seeking to produce, and how thorough
design, it should be done.




Conference Venue:

Hobart, Tasmania, AUSTRALIA.

Tasmania is renowned for its diverse beauty
and magnificent wilderness areas. Hobart,the
capital, is only an hours flight from mainland
Australia.

Wrest Point Casino Convention Centre, situated
on the banks of the River Derwent at Sandy Bay,
in Hobart, is a very short distance from the city centre and
has wonderful views of Mount Wellington. Five
star accomodation is offered in single, twin or
double rooms and suites are also available.
Restaurants, swimming facilities and
entertainment are just a few of the attractions
combined with an outstanding venue for the conference.




Exploring Tasmania:

The conference is an excellent opportunity to
explore Tasmania's wilderness, scenic and
historic areas. National Trust homes,
bushwalking opportunities, historic villages and
art and craft shops (with local products of a high
standard), the Port Arthur penal settlement,
historic Salamanca Place (and market) and visits
to National Parks will be offered as pre or post
conference tours.

There will also be ample opportunity during the
conference to see plenty of local attractions on
organised day and half day tours.




Who To Contact For More Details:

Conference Secretariat
Penelope Archer
Conference Design Pty. Ltd.
GPO Box 844J
Hobart 7001
Tasmania AUSTRALIA

Phone: 	+61 02 313223
Fax:	+61 02 313224
-- 
| Richard Kay          | Telephone:     +61 03 362801                |
| PO Box 1567          | Facsimile:     +61 03 344572                |
| Launceston  Tasmania | Internet: rkay%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au |
| Australia       7250 | BE REALISTIC.............PLAN FOR A MIRACLE!|
From: karplus@ararat.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Rural vs. Residential
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:05:22 GMT
Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE
NNTP-Posting-Host: ararat.ucsc.edu

California has been fairly successful with agricultural zoning.  Because agriculture has
a significant part of the state economy (estimates vary, but are usually 20% or more),
rezoning away from agriculture is politically difficult.  In counties with anti-growth
politicians (like Santa Cruz County), sprawl has been limited to areas adjacent to existing
cities, and some (like the City of Santa Cruz) have avoided spreading despite enormous
undeveloped land immediately adjacent to the city.

On the downside, new cities have sprung up in the hills with aggresive pro-growth policies,
and have produced extremely ugly, non-functional cities (Scotts Valley, for example).
These have not taken over farm land, but have converted formerly beautiful hillsides into
garages and suburban sprawl.

Kevin Karplus
From: rkay@ausom.oz.au (Richard Kay)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re - Planning Information
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:45:53 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

aljone@ohstmvsa.acs.ohio-state.edu. writes:

aljone> But where do practicing planners go to find out what others
aljone> have done before them? If you have an idea to try something in
aljone> City A, how do you find out if City B or City C has
aljone> investigated a similar situation?

Most of us don't have a !@#$%^&* clue what others have done before us
unless, of course, we know that Planner "A" has dealt with Scenario "1"
whereupon we call them. Sometimes when confronted with Scenario "1" we
will remember an article from a magazine that has been written in
response to Scenario "1"  by another Planner and use it as a guide.
If we have access to InterNet we put out a call for help. If we haven't,
we may ring Planners in neighbouring municipalities for help. As a last
resort we see our immediate superior. ;-)

aljone> Now I know that a lot of private planning consultants do
aljone> feasibility studies or site plans that could be considered
aljone> proprietary information and would therefore be unavailable to
aljone> the public. But there are also a heck of a lot of publicallly
aljone> funded planning entities-- state level, regional level,
aljone> municipal level,even neighborhood level-- and as public
aljone> entities using public funds, the results of any studies they
aljone> may public entities using public funds, the results of their
aljone> studies or fact-finding reports should be available to the
aljone> public.

Well, if they aren't published in the public arena (if they were you'd
probably find reference to them in your local library) you'll be
buggered!

aljone> Is there a good way to efficiently search for these kinds of
aljone> things? Is there an efficient system to ferreting out these
aljone> kinds of reports and studies?

If they aren't published in the public arena I think you're out of luck.

aljone> But I am even more interested in finding out, in general, how
aljone> planners go about discovering what their colleagues are doing
aljone> in other places.

Most of us are working in the dark - unless we've obtained information
using the methods described above. Usually in the real world you'll find
that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing! ;-)

aljone> Much thanks, Alice Jones Ph.D. student, C & RP

No problems.
-- 
| Richard Kay          | Telephone:     +61 03 362801                |
| PO Box 1567          | Facsimile:     +61 03 344572                |
| Launceston  Tasmania | Internet: rkay%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au |
| Australia       7250 | BE REALISTIC.............PLAN FOR A MIRACLE!|
From: zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: Mall of America
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:09:17 GMT
Organization: Information Technology Division, The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA

mjp@itd.dsto.gov.au writes:

>zebee@ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) writes:

>>Depends.  Forexample, the Rundle Mall is a pedestrian mall - a street closed
>>to traffic.  IT is a meeting/social place.  One of the things fronting
>>onto it is the Remm Centre, which is more like a US mall, incl. roller
>>coaster and food hall.  IT is less of a social place, more like somwhere
>>to go to do specific things (like ride on said roller coaster).

>Also abutting the Rundle mall is the Myer Centre which is a
>4 or 5 story complex done up in pseudo old world look.
>This complex has been an economic disaster, being partially
>responsible for the 2.3billion $A debt of our state bank.

Just in case anyone is wondering, the Remm Centre and the Myer Centre
are the same thing....

Remm were the developers, and it was called "the Remm site" while it 
was a hole in the ground.  Some folks call it one, some the other.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: E.L.Javison@massey.ac.nz (E.L. Javison)
Subject: Reviews on planning books
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:21:09 GMT

Has anyone come across a review of any of the following books?

1.	Municipal Coping Strategies 
	by G.D. Starling (1986)

2.	Political Influence
	by E.C. Banfield (1961)

3.	Making City Planning Work
	by A.B. Jacobs (1980)

4.	Not Much Improvement:  Urban Renewal Policy in Birmingham
	by C. Paris and B. Blackaby (1979)

5.	Downtown Inc.:  How America Rebuilds Cities
	by B.J. Frieden and L.B. Sagalyn (1989)

I would appreciate references to the publication(s) where such reviews
were found.

Thanks...

-- 
Edgar L. Javison			\
C Hostel, Student Mail			 \	"It takes a lot of
Massey University			/ \	courage to stand alone."
Palmerston North		       /   \		
NEW ZEALAND		              /     \		- Reginald Rose

Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman)
Subject: Mall of America
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:19:39 GMT

rkay@ausom.oz.au (Richard Kay) writes:
> PS: What is the story on the "Super-Mall" that we saw on TV down here
> and which has just opened in the U.S?

fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Priven) writes: 
> It's a very, very big shopping mall.  With an amusement park.
> 
> The people behind this are the same as the ones behind the West
> Edmonton Mall in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, which until this one was
> the largest mall in the world.  (It may still be the largest one.)

The Mall of America has something like 4,000,000 square feet of floor area,  
while the typical US mall has abut 500,000 to 1,000,000 square feet.  However,  
I was reading that aside from the Knott's Snoopyland Park and the themed areas  
within the mall, it's just more of the same, with a few (100?) new,  
never-before-seen stores.

I remember in the early stages of planning for the mall, the Ghermezian  
brothers (sp?) were looking at a Buffalo - Niagara Falls location.  Considering  
how close the Toronto/Hamilton market is, short (<4 hr) driving times to  
Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany and a bunch of  
other cities, and the *huge* impact cross-border shopping has on the Niagara  
Frontier, the mega-mall would have done great there.

I hear K mart stores arevery popular in OZ.  What are shopping centers like  
Down Under?  Considering the suburban nature of Australia, do they serve the  
role of a community center like many of them do in the States>


--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash