HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rich.Rubel@launchpad.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Locomotive operation/maintenance manuals?
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:19:25 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


I have that book you're talking about, right on my desk... "The Travelling
engineer's Association", and I believe I mentioned it in an earlier post. 
C. 1924.  Mine isn't from a particular railroad, though.  Fascinating book.
[RICHR]
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property: common sense or am I an Idiot?
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:54:05 GMT

b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman) writes:
>
>I think a lot of people have seen trains moving slowly and so
>expect that all trains move slowly.

It's not that they have seen trains move slowly and think that they always
do, as this makes no sense -- we've all seen cars move slowly but don't
assume this is always the case!

As those of us who go railfanning regularly know, any train travelling at
60 mph can *appear* to be going rather slowly until a few seconds prior to
it reaching your location.  The sheer size and massiveness of a train
distorts our "sense of speed estimation".  Added to this that it is often
possible to not hear the roar of the prime-movers until they are at close
proximity, it is understandable how people can easily get killed.

This said, I still cannot believe the stupidity of some people and the
things they do, such as walking down a track alone wearing a Walkman
turned up full blast.  There's enough danger being fifty feet back from
the track when you are aware (ie: waiting to watch a train) of the
situation, let alone this sort of situation.

The problem remains to be one of education, many people *know* of the
dangers, but don't have a *feeling* for them.  On several occasions
I have gone train watching with someone from outside the hobby.  Afterwards,
they tend to have a real understanding for the dangers that surround
trains, such as not being able to guess the speed the way we can with
cars.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
From: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property: common sense or am I an Idiot?
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 12:27:47 EST
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

memanuel@cbnews.cb.att.com (mark.emanuele) writes:

>  In the town of Hazlet, NJ the North Jersey Coast line has a station . 3/4 mi
> past the station is a grade crossing. This crossing is activated while the tr
> is coming into the station. Train sits in the station for 3-4 minutes to
> load/unload. Grade crossing has gates down for 3-4 minutes with no train in
> sight. Cars start to go around gates thinking gates are malfunctioning (local
> 
> This seems like a situation that could be corrected by NJ Transit easily,
> however when I contacted them, they looked at me like I had three heads.
> 

Of course it is easily corrected.  40 years ago the Main Street crossing
of the Erie Railroad in Kent Ohio incorporated a timer and zoned track 
circuits to
accommodate this very situation.  When the train stopped (on the main) at 
the station, the gates would be raised after a short delay.  Departing the station,
the train would proceed at a crawl for a short distance until the signals
and gates were actuated again.

If there's a problem, it's not the technology.

--
UUCP: {uunet|backbone}!railnet!rad   rad@railnet.nshore.org
CompuServe: 72517.666@compuserve.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: "A.J. Janschewitz" <p00258@psilink.com>
Subject: Amtrak derailment
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 13:20:47 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

Does anyone have any details on the Amtrak derailment beyond the press 
reports? 

==a.j.==
From: organic@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil (HJF MS. MIRIAM ORGANIC)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Captial Limited question
Date: 24 Dec 92 16:50:15 GMT
Reply-To: organic@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil
Organization: USUHS - Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences

Does anybody know when the Chicago-D.C. train is going to 
start using the Superliner cars?  I want to take it this 
spring and get last chance to use the old dome cars  
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Torpedos  (was: Incident on Boston (MBTA) Commuter Rail)
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:42:51 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <tgttgv.725013815@tb3.chem.tue.nl> tgttgv@chem.tue.nl writes:
> emery@dr_no.mitre.org (David Emery) writes:
> 
> >Could the loud "pop" be a torpedo?
> >				dave
> 
> 
> Could someone please expain to me what a 'torpedo' is ?
> 
> I understand it is something to stop a train in an emergency or other
> dangerous case, but is it a device that is actually put on the rails, or
> is it a permanent installation that will stop a train after passing a
> red signal ?

It's a "small" explosive device that sits on top of the rail, with metal
straps that bend down around railhead to keep it in place.  It works
like a giant "cap" in that the powder explodes when the device is crushed
by a wheel rolling over it, make a loud bang.

The name "torpedo" probably dates back to the civil war era terminology
confusion between naval mines and torpedos.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Keywords: spirals
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 13:28:40 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen) writes:
> In the USA, I know of three spirals in service: Tehachapi Loop, east of
> Bakersfield CA on track shared by the SP & ATSF, Hiwassee Loop on CSX
> (former L&N) between Copper Hill and Etowah TN, and the Georgetown Loop
> tourist operation on the former Colorado Central narrow gauge.

Isn't there also a spiral on the Roaring Camp, Big Trees, & Pacific (or the
other RR with a similar name that operates in the same area)?

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Track spirals (was Re: Unusual tunnels?)
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:07:45 GMT
 <921221150756@cream.ftp.com> 
 <1992Dec22.222343.5650@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>  
 <168C67E89.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

There are also some spirals used to gain elevation for crossing major
bridges.  I have a circa-1950 track chart for the Chicago & Eastern
Illinois (later Missouri Pacific, now Union Pacific) showing a spiral
for the Mississippi bridge between Thebes, Illinois and Illmo,
Missouri. Without checking, I think the spiral is on the Illinois side.
 Does anyone recall other railroad bridges with such a pattern?

Todd Minsk, ferro-bibliographer
From: khartman@fnalo.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Auto Gates
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:38:20 GMT
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

In article <C0367L.GwL@specialix.com>, jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer) writes:
> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
> 
> 
>>I find this an interesting concept.  I have NEVER heard of such a thing....a
>>gate that operates off horn sounds.  Not to call anyone a liar, but can you
>>verify 100% that the whistle is what activates the gates?  I just find it
>>strange that a noise would work the gates.  What would happen if a semi
>>pulled up to the crossing and blew his horn?
> 
> The ex-SP San Francisco subdivision (now the Joint Powers Board Peninsula
> Commute Service ugh!  JPB/PCS) does have gates that do lower when the
> engineer blows the horn, after the gate has just raised because the
> train stopped at a station.  Here's the whole sequence.  Many of the
> stations are located right near busy non-grade separated cross streets.
> When the train pulls into the station the gates go down (not all trains
> stop at all stations).  After the gates have been down X amount of time,
> the gates raise.  When the train starts moving the engineer blows 14-L
> (two longs, a short and a long, but some engineers are lazy and just
> toot the horn once).  A directional microphone picks up the sound and
> the gates lower again.  They will only do this if the gates were just
> down and had timed out.  The microphone is not right at the road and
> has a case that has the open end pointed back along the track, sort of
> looks like a loudspeaker horn.  The engineer runs at slow speed until
> it is known that the gates have lowered.  Also, the flashing lights
> at the grade crossings have small openings pointed at right angles
> to the road so the engineer can see that the lights are working.
> There are several installations like this, right off the top of
> my head I think that Milbrae is one of them.



	Thanks for the details, Jim.  It was your earlier post to which I was
referring.  Sounds like an unusual system, and I can see Steve's point about
a semi blowing his horn.  However, from your description, it sounds like the
gates would "fail safe".  A horn will _lower_ them, not raise them, and then, 
only after the gates have timed out.  Neat!


Ken
From: cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Summary: Roaring Camp RR
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:44:37 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


As of last summer, the loop had not been replaced on the Roaring Camp line.  I
believe there are no plans to replace the trestle due to cost and necessary
enviornmental issues.

Loren Cantrell
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loren Cantrell                                       cantrell@clipper.ingr.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:25:00 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell) writes:
>
>As of last summer, the loop had not been replaced on the Roaring Camp line.  I
>believe there are no plans to replace the trestle due to cost and necessary
>enviornmental issues.
>
>Loren Cantrell
>-- 

I rode the Roaring Camp railroad late last October, and while the loss 
of the loop years ago is regretable, the switchback and it's grade are
quite spectacular.

-- Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: European Air Deregulation
Date: 1 Jan 93 11:16:58 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <sam.31bs@terapin.com> sam@terapin.com (Sam Lewit) writes:
 > European railfans correct me if I'm wrong, but I read in the paper today that
 > starting Jan 1 the major airlines will become deregulated. According to the
 > article there has already been severe price dropping on major european markets.
 > The article goes on to say that some industry observers predict one of the most
 > expensive air travel markets is turning into a flying bargain basement on Jan
 > 1.
I doubt it.
 > 
 > Lufthansa started with price cuts of about 50 percent on fares to Germany from
 > around Europe. KLM, British Airways and SAS quickly matched the fares. KLM
 > announced ROUND TRIP fares from Amsterdam to major German airports of $104 ($52
 > each way!).
Yeah.  But it appears to be extremely difficult to really get tickets at
those prices!
 > 
 > This is great news for european travels, but what does that mean for Europe's
 > fantastic rail passenger services? Will europeans still pay more to train when
 > the plane is cheaper and faster (and arguably safer?). It almost seems
 > inevitable that what has happened in the US what with fuel prices cheaper than
 > bottled water, and airfares MUCH cheaper than rail travel (in almost all
 > corriders), will happen in Europe. Any opinions? I hope I'm wrong.
I think you are wrong.  If the airlines go on with this most will go
belly-up, just as many US airlines did.  (Makes one wonder how Lufthansa is
able to start this with an expected deficit of about 1 billion DM last year.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Trains & Movies (a question of saftey?)
From: mccartney_g@ab.wvnet.edu
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:46:10 -0500
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College

Maybe the problem with people and especially children getting hurt around
railroads is using ideas from what they see on TV.  At least once we have all
seen our favorite hero jump a motorcycle through a moving boxcar, or the
bandits running from the cops and break through the gates just before the train
gets there.  I believe people get the idea from these shows that it maybe
possible to try stunts such as these.  Take a minute and think about all the
movies you have ever seen with trains in them and the ones involved with cars
and how many people walk away in the film unhurt.  Maybe if they showed what
really would happen people would think twice about the dangers around
railroads.  

Think about the movie Stand Bye Me.  Those boys were able to make it off that
tressel when the train was comming, but I would have to question that in real
life.

					Greg McCartney
					McCartney_G@ab.wvnet.edu
From: sheininger@npal.rn.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Old Monon pictures
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:09:39 EDT
Organization: PalNet -- Indianapolis, Indiana

I recently came into possession of a large number of photos taken between
1968 and 1970.  The bad news is they are all polariods and many are in poor
condition.  The good news is that I am a photo restorer by trade and I have
been enjoying the work.  Many of the pictures are of Monon equipment and I
am in hopes that somebody out there can help me with info about them.

How many BL2's did the Monon have.  I have pictures of numbers 30, 32, 35 and
37.  Are any of these still around.  I also have a switcher numbered 16, an
SW1 I think, does anybody have old roster who can confirm this.  There are
also F-units 203 and 207.  There is also what I think is an RS-3 numbered
52.  There are many other pictures of newer units numbered 504 to at least
517.  The 517 is pictured with a mashed front end after a grade crossing
accident at 75th street in Indianapolis in Jan of 1970 according to an
attached note.  Any details about these units would be great.

There is also an unusual engine with a New York Central marking.  It has
a center cab and a sloping roof line from center to ends.  It has B-B 
trucks and six louvered doors to each end.  There is no number visible.
Any ideas??
From: eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Deaths on Railroad Property
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 12:45:27 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:

> 
> >private (and posted) property.  Let's not forget her
> >misery, even if we disagree with her lawsuit.
>  
> Even if her lawsuit causes others misery? All of us pay for these
> lawsuits in one way shape or form through insurance.
>  
> And about "her" misery - come on. What about the misery that train
> crew (and many others in similar situations) is going through knowing
> they killed someone because a incompent/unconcerned parent? They have
> to live with that every day they go to work.
> -- 
> Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
> WISE Div., NMRA


This brings to memory an incident many years ago, when a man got stuck on 
the track, and of course, felt that there was safety in the car for his 
children.  Unfortunately a westbound passenger train came around the 
bend, and killed the man and his 3 children.  The day was Christmas 
Morning.  Oh yes, the engineer cheered so loudly, that within 2 years he 
took his own life, since he could not live with himself.  People forget 
that the people who run the trains are human, and have families.  I 
remember another engineer who hit a car with a little girl in it.  He was 
unliveable for about 4 months, and ended up on a couch.  Fortunately he 
was able to reconcile his problem.


--
eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: "A.J. Janschewitz" <p00258@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Grade crossings, etc. (was Re: Deaths on Railroad Prop...)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:03:28 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

For quite a few years I have been active with a small commercial tourist 
railroad operation, the Valley Railroad Company in Essex, Connecticut. 
We run regular steam excursions on roughly seven of the 33 miles to 
which the railroad has track rights.

The number of people who fail to stop for flashers and posted crossings 
is amazing. For about three years, I was a part-time police officer in 
one of the towns through which the train travelled, and knowing the 
schedule, I would often meet the train at one of the grade crossings 
while on patrol.

At roughly one out of ten of these meets, I would also end up pursuing 
and stopping a vehicle that had run directly in front of the train, 
ignoring the stop sign, and the obvious noise of the bell, whistle, and 
strain for the slight grade coming from the approaching engine.

The driver's most common excuse was that it was just a tourist train, so they 
didn't think they *really* had to stop. (?!)

Once while functioning as conductor, we had an incident where the 
engineer had to dynamite the train upon rounding a turn and seeing a 
payloader parked on the tracks. The driver of the payloader moved it off 
the tracks slowly, and as the engine pumped the brakes back up I got off 
and approached the payloader's driver. He looked at me and said, "What's 
the matter? Your choo-choo is broken?".

I pulled out my police badge, and apologized to him for leaving my 
*other* uniform on the train while writing him a summons for trespassing.

I'll save the other war stories for later ... just wanted to introduce 
myself, being new to the Internet.

Cheers ...

==a.j.==

**************************************************************************

My reader won't make these boxes
so I have to do them by hand.
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Subject: Re: Amtrak and cold weather
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:46:36 GMT

In article <725938728.AA01622@tdkt.kksys.com>, MRH@tdkt.kksys.com (Dan McNulty)
writes:
> Re: Amtrak's Empire Builder comes to a stop.
>  
>      Because of the severe cold weather in the upper midwest region, Amtrak's
> Empire Builder has discontinued its route of service temporarily.  Bus
> service is being used to transport people who were stranded when service
> came to a halt.
> 
> ->Dan McNulty (From the Shoreham Section)

Say WHAT!?!  Are you serious?  I cannot imagine this.  If this is the case, do
these people think they are running an airline, or what?  I'd like to see some
more details.  Prior to 1980 when steam heat was still in use, they didn't
cancel the only form of transportation which could reliably get through (a bit
late, perhaps) just because it was winter in the midwest.  Chicago & North
Western in the 1970's had a slogan:  "Winter is no excuse.  We've been through
122 of 'em."  [or something close]
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
From: tgttgv@tb3.chem.tue.nl (Jan Vaessen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Italian railways--is 1st class worth it?
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:43:10 GMT
Reply-To: tgttgv@chem.tue.nl

jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:

>I find the train classes interesting because when I rode them a few
>years back they  had: Rapido : local, Diretto : express,
>Direttissimo : IC intercity with surcharge if under 100 km trip.  If
>the current postings are accurate, it seems that FS has a more
>moderate perspective of the speed of their trains.  The notations
>that I experienced may have been left over from "Il Duce".

>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

Some comments:

A <<Rapido>> is certainly not a local train. As a matter of fact,
<<Rapido>> is no longer an official train class in Italy, they are now
all named <<Intercity>> (IC) or <<Eurocity>> (EC) if they cross borders.
This is probably to conform to a standard introduced by DB and SBB (EC
is an official European standard, IC is not).

The official train classes with FS are:

local                                (< 150 km)
regional express       <<Diretto>>   (< 300 km)
express                <<Expresso>>  
intercity              <<IC>>
eurocity               <<EC>>        

IC and EC trains usually require a supplement and a seat reservation.
<<Direttissimo>> has never been an official train class. It probably
refers to the ETR 450, a high speed train, which uses the
<<Direttissima>> (note the difference !), the high speed track between
Roma and Firenze which parallels roughly the old, more curvy track.

Jan Vaessen
Eindhoven University of Technology
Eindhoven, the Netherlnads

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: tsulanke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thom sulanke)
Subject: Re: Old Monon pictures
Keywords: Monon, BL2
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.090939.21318@npal.rn.com> sheininger@npal.rn.com writes:
>
>How many BL2's did the Monon have.  I have pictures of numbers 30, 32, 35 and
>37.  Are any of these still around.  I also have a switcher numbered 16, an
>

The Kentucky Railway Museum has the Monon BL2 #32 in Monon paint scheme.
 
Thom Sulanke
tsulanke@indiana.edu