From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: one lab
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 23:10:13 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Nov16.025452.26730@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mic.Oettinger@launchpad.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger) writes:
>In article <kmr4.222.721798047@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:
>>>Also, I would think you people
>>>would be a bit more patient and stop trying to immediately discount what I
>>>say just because you have a difficult time believing it. Just hang on to
>>>your balls, ok? You'll get the name of the laboratory I referenced, but I
>>>can't just snap my fingers and have the name, I have to find it, as I did
>>>not keep the name in mind when I heard it.
>>
>>	When we've heard a multitute of unsubstantiated claims, and outright 
>>deceit from others, its hard not to dismiss such far fetched sounding 
>>"proofs" as just another poor attempt at science. Especially if you didn't 
>>hear it.
>
>Fine then, I won't even bother wasting my time and energy worrying about
>getting your proof then. Let's just drop the whole thing then because I
>have been wasting lots of precious time just to hopefully please you
>people and all you give me is a bunch of nasty remarks that would
>insinuate that not only am I a CRAZY-in-the-head Catholic, but I'm also
>gullible, ill-informed, and certainly not capable of being as intellectual
>as yourselves. You are just TOO high and mighty for me. I should just
>crawl back into my hole hey? Stupid Michelle, how dare she insult our
>intelligence like that!

 Michelle, you have to understand a few things. You stated that OOBEs had
been observed, confirmed, and reliably reproduced in a scientific setting.
As has since been made clear, no one else on this newsgroup seems to have
heard about this.
 Also, as has been stated before, true fruitcakes *frequently* post the most
ridiculous statements to the net. This happens with appalling regularity.
There is a guy over on talk.origins who feels that the Earth used to orbit
Saturn, only it wasn't really Saturn it was a small"electromagnetic" star,
and this was the case up until a few thousand years ago when humans disrupted
the state of affairs, turned Saturn into a planet, caused Venus to be
ejected from Jupiter, caused Noah's flood, and thus caused the felt effect
of gravity to increase so that the dinosaurs (which were too big to walk
in today's gravity) died. (Yes, the dinosaurs were living a few thousand
years ago.) Oh, yeah, this also changed Earth's magnetic field so we couldn't
use our telepathy anymore.
 So, when you posted something that, you have to admit, is somewhat startling,
we had to wonder if it wasn't something like that. So, we asked for peer-
reviewed, confirmed studies, or at least a reference to the lab mentioned.
 When this was not forthcoming, some of the more trigger-happy types did
take you to task for it.
 What you can learn from this is that the net is a very harsh place for
unusual ideas. They *can* survive, but they have to be well-supported. In
the future, you should *always* have a reference handy if you post something
that you think you might be called on.
 A while back on rec.arts.sf.science, I posted a bit about why magnetism
can be thought of as a relativistic effect, and I flubbed it badly, and
got my head handed to me with garnish and ketchup. I know better now, and
when I post controversial things I have references to back them up, or I
can at least mention suggestive evidence.

>Michelle


Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                  || The above opinions are probably
                            || not those of the University of
ingles@engin.umich.edu      || Michigan. Yet.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.abortion