HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran)
Subject: Re: can.domain
Organization: UUNET Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:26:20 GMT

eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:

>Unless I completely misunderstand the committee discussions of the
>last (almost) year, John has asked the committee to provide useful
>input towards policy decisions he must make. 

I question the usefulness of any comments we might make in the context
of in-committee discussions.  John Demco is responsible for the CA
domain whether we participate actively in the committee or not.  I am
quite willing to offer opinions on a wide range of subjects, and help
John where possible.  However, right now I am not willing to share
officially the responsibilities that have been delegated to the CA-DOM
coordinator.  I don't think it's worth it to us.

What I particularly want to avoid is any hint that UUNET Canada has
anything to do with any sort of official policy-making process.
Policy is John's baby, not ours.  

>Since I'm supposed to be representing the UUCP Community, I can only
>presume that you're there to represent UUNET Canada and it's customers.

Quite.  As far as I see it, that involves mostly submitting forms that
the committee will accept, so that we can get domains for our
customers.  Broad proposals to the committee are things which I am
quite happy to leave to people wearing other hats.  Broad proposals to
the CA-DOM coordinator are things I'd rather make in person.

	Sean.
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations (was Re: What is this group for?)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 22:23:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <C0BpBB.4IK@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
[...]
>Come on Ed. Your address would be XeniTec.N2N.CA. Didn't even take me 
>more than about 15 seconds to find it out, and I didn't have to do more
>than switch to another screen and grep a file for your *Real* postal 
>address.
>
>Lot's faster to type in the XeniTec.Kitchanar.on.ca too.
>


I don't seem to have a file handy that I can grep to find this
handy little bit of information. Since I have no idea where N2N
is, I much prefer something a bit more informative. I do know
where on.ca is, and although I'm not sure where Kitchanar is, I
assume it's somewhere near Kitchener, Ontario.

If I were to send a lot of email to someone in Kitchener, I'd
probably set up a mail alias, and save all that typing anyway.
With our move away from BITNET addressing, it's rather nice to
have meaningful addresses. My email address used to be
UNCAMULT.BITNET, now it's acs.ucalgary.ca.

I guess my point is, if you want to save typing use short cryptic
addresses and carry around a copy of the postal codes. If you
want something meaningful use a name that means something. If you
don't like typing long names use a table of aliases. That's the
beauty of using computers.


-- 
Don Kozlowski	                 	Phone: (403) 220-5156
Academic Computing Services		Fax:   (403) 282-9199
The University of Calgary
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:53:36 GMT

In article <388@unbc.edu> lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>
>BTW - the .CA master nameserver will be renamed to relay.cdnnet.vancouver.bc.ca
>to conform with the new guidelines, won't it?

No way. It would be relay.cdnnet.point-grey.bc.ca :-)

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
From: lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Newsgroups: can.domain
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:34:44 GMT
Organization: University of Northern B.C.

> Lucky you. :-)   And who is the registrar for your subdomain?

Why, the Registrar of Vital Statistics, Province of Alberta :-)

What's interesting is that they didn't give a damn that I registered
directly under that top level domain.
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:16:09 GMT
Summary: I've met my Waterllo :-)

In article <1993Jan4.074003.9959@cs.UAlberta.CA> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes:
>In <C098As.KF1@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan2.234428.886@cs.UAlberta.CA> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes:
>Typically, addresses such as waterloo.on.ca end up being coded as one chunk
>because they rely on one's knowledge of geography. So, cognitively,
>waterloo.on.ca is SHORTER than N2L.

I live three thousand miles away from on.ca and have know idea where Waterllo
is. Isn't it somewhere in France? Didn't Napolean met his girlfriend there
or something? History never was my strong point. 

BTW under the new guidelines your email address should be cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.ab.ca. 

And if the the rules where changed to mandate a consistent approach similiar 
to the US Domain conventions then it would be cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.edmontan.ab.ca.

Can we presume you would be more than happy to adopt one of these. It's not that 
much longer. I'll try to remember it as one chunk.

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)
Newsgroups: can.domain
Subject: How portable are most sites going to be?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 02:12:30 MST
Organization: Private System, Edmonton, AB, Canada
X-Newsreader: rusnews v0.99

[it was suggested I start a `longest FQDN contest'.  I'm resisting.  maybe]

I don't anticipate the UofAlberta moving anytime soon.  so @ualberta.ca,
@ualberta.ab.ca (and @u.ab.ca), and @ualberta.edmonton.ab.ca (or, via
companion posting, @ualberta.edtn.ab.ca?) are all equally likely to be
meaningful a long time from now.  they differ in convenience, certainly.
but there is unlikely to be a conflict with any other site, or any
segment which would be just plain wrong (like it moving to Leduc).

anyway, as you can tell, my address is highly dependent on my physical
location (or, at least, it appears to be).  in November, my wife was
informed where she would be doing her residency training for the next
four years - we were unsure if it would be in Alberta, let alone
Edmonton itself.  I was not looking forward to changing my address if
she hadn't landed a position here.

does anyone have a suggestion what to do with addresses for possibly-mobile
people and/or companies?  and how often does it occur - will 90% of the
sites never move, and 99% of the rest only once?  or will 50% move at
least twice in the next five years?  more importantly (since it will
be mostly guesswork anyway) what numbers are being used by the powers
that be to make these decisions?

if the likelihood is high, do we have to move to a non-meaningful system
for efficiency?  like alpha3.0039.priv.ca - where the numbers are there
solely to reduce load on certain name servers?  or would the basically
flat space of *.priv.ca be just as efficient?  neither has a nice
combination of efficiency and non-ugliness for my taste/knowledge combo.

if the likelihood is low, do we just ignore it?
-- 
Russell Schulz  russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca  ersys!rschulz  Shad 86c
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: wcsv2k@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill St. Arnaud)
Subject: X.400 domain naming
Summary: X.400 domain naming
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:06:00 GMT

It is interesting to note that CIGOS- the Canadian Interest Group for
Open Systems is going through a similar process of setting standards
for domain naming.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a consistent naming scheme for
the Internet and OSI worlds.


At one time CSA was supposed to have responsibility for Canadian
domain naming.  Maybe they should be pressured to re-assume that role.


As well Canada Post is going through a similar process because they
have taken responsibility for the CAN for the NADF - North American
Directory Forum.


CIGOS - DEnnis MacKinnon - Software Kinetics - +1 613 831-0888
Canada Post - Bob Russell - + 613 734-1861


Bill St. Arnaud                         Internet: wcsv2k@ccs.carleton.ca
VISION 2000 INC.                        X.400: C=CA; A=TELECOM.CANADA;
203-294 Albert St.                             O=VISION2000; DDA:ID=V2K.EMS
Ottawa CANADA                           Voice: +1 613 567-2000  
K1P 6E6                                 Fax:   +1 613 567-4730

=============================================================================
VISION 2000 INC:  A Department of Communications and industry initiative to
foster and accelerate the development of personal communications in Canada.
=============================================================================

Newsgroups: can.domain
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re:  locality abbreviations 
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 21:30:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.192059.10367@sol.UVic.CA> klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen) writes:
>In article <*> anne@maxwell.concordia.ca (Anne Bennett) writes:
>> I say just use the whole city name, and have done with it.
>I agree, as long as "we" agree how to handle "strange" B.C. place-names, e.g.,
>  Gibson's Landing
>  Clo-oose
>  Ceepeecee
>  70 Mile House
>  100 Mile House
>  150 Mile House
>  	[...]
>
>Clearly, some rule for handling the punctuation-characters is needed,
>e.g., "devil@styx.Mt.Satan.BC.CA" is a case where the "dot" in the
>name may(??) cause a problem, and the single (unbalanced!) quote
>could throw many scanners for a loop.

I vaguely remember that it's RFC822 that precludes the use of dots
in lieu of other punctuation in this respect.  Remember that the
dots separate the levels of the subdomain.

We generally allow the use of the dash "-" as a punctuation substitute
for the orgname, and I'm hopeful that the committee will soon agree
that the dash can be appropriately used for locality names as well.

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
From: davem@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave McCrady)
Newsgroups: can.domain
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 22:12:28 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #8, Edmonton, AB, Canada

anne@maxwell.concordia.ca (Anne Bennett) writes:

- eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:
- > 
- > We need a more reasonable alternative from a useable source.  If one
- > isn't available, then someone should create one, and if no one does
- > that, then we (the domain committee) will have to create our own
- > "official" abbreviation list, within the CA Registrar's scope of
- > authority.  If the government chooses to adopt it later, we'll likely
- > let them.  :-)
- 
- I don't agree.  There are squillions (pardon the technical term :-) of
- municipalities in Canada, and it would probably be very difficult to come
- up with a reasonable set of abbreviations.  Doing so would be *way*
- beyond the domain committee's resources, I think.
- 
   
   At the risk of stirring still more mud into the mix, has anyone 
considered using the nearest airport as a location code?  The three-
letter codes stamped on your baggage tags?  They're understood and 
accepted as meaningful internationally, at least by airline people 
and meteorologists and could even begin to mean something to the rest
of us if we started using them.  

   And there are nowhere near as many of them to contend with as postal
codes.

   It would instantly shorten my site address to ersys.yeg.ca (the real
one appears below) ... and we could probably dispense with the .ca.

   On second thought, the way baggage tends to go astray, I'd best re-
think this one :)

Dave McCrady              davem@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: steven@enel.ucalgary.ca (Steven Leikeim)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:36:21 GMT
Organization: ECE Department, U. of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

In article <389@unbc.edu> lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes:
>
>So who will be the first to register foo.head-all-smashed-in-buffalo-jump.xx.ca?
>
>(The province escapes me at the moment.)

Actually the place is "Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump" which is located in
southern Alberta.

>
>--lyndon


-- 
Steven Leikeim                        |
University of Calgary                 |   There are lies, damned lies,
Department of Electrical Engineering  |        and statistics.
Internet: steven@enel.ucalgary.ca     |
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley)
Subject: Policy Enforcement
Organization: SwitchView Inc., Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:21:04 GMT

In eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:
>
>We've hacked on the concept of "scope" at great length in committee
>over the last couple of months.  Again.  I perceive the difficulty has
>been in trying to define "scope" in a way that's fair to all types of
>organizations, be they Universities, government organizations, large
>corporations, small businesses, or anything in between.  I'd really
>like to ask you to await the next iteration of the CA registration
>guidelines and application form and then comment on how you would
>suggest wording to accomodate fair application of "scope".  What
>tests (that _everyone_ will agree on) can be applied to determine
>what is indeed correct for _any_ given organization?

Despite anything I may have said about the "desirability" or "suitability"
of geographic naming conventions I believe the current structure is the
best one put forth so far.  I feel the biggest issue is in how the policies
will be enforced.  Whatever "tests" are made to determine which subdomain
an organization belongs in if that organization strongly desires placement
in another subdomain every effort should be made to accomadate them.

The application form for registration within the .CA domain should clearly
instruct applicants to use a orgname.locality.province.ca subdomain name.  
This should be accepted as the normal form of addressing within Canada.  When 
an organization applies for an orgname.province.CA subdomain name they should
be granted their request.  When an application is made for an orgname.ca
subdomain name it should be accepted after confirmation that the organization
has a reasonable reason to be there.

My point is this, there is no immediate need to create many more zones in .CA.
There are several reasons why some organizations would not wish a geographical
based subdomain name.  Municipality based names are more suitable for private
individuals who are not allowed to register subdomains at this time.  The .COM
domain is able, at this time, to handle a significantly larger number of 
subdomains than are expected to exist in Canada for the near future.  So it is
not neccesary to enforce the rules that strictly.

As Stuart Lynne pointed out the commitee really can't be expected to perform
a great deal of "tests" on the applications if it expects to be able to grow
at a rate which parallels the scalability of the naming convention.

So I say let's get on with it and don't force the municipalities on those that
are so against it that they would rather join .COM or .ORG.

(Just for those of you who wonder where I really stand since I registered my
 employer under .com I have just applied for a waterloo.on.ca subdomain for 
 my own consultancy.  I have a great many ties to my town!)

-- 
Vance Shipley 
vances@xenitec.on.ca         vances@switchview.com         vances@ltg.uucp
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: davecb@nexus.yorku.ca (David Collier-Brown)
Subject: Final-Delivery Routing (was Re: Domain naming conventions)
Organization: York University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:27:59 GMT

sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
|Another thought. Everyone is talking about Domain Names etc. But if may
|become more common in the future to simply request a mail forwarding
|mailbox on a server. So 

|	fred_smith@pomo.bc.ca

|Might become fairly popular for private users. It's a little easier to
|remember and type than:

|	fred_smith@fsmith.pomo.bc.ca

|This practice would reduce the need for large numbers of domain names at
|the expense of implementing mailboxes or forwarding arrangements at the
|city level. 

  This doesn't need to be a physical account on a server, actually, if
you can support a directory service to decide about the last step.
  For example, many many moons ago, one of the record types in the DNS
indicated where a particular person who was part of a domain was to
receive his mail (MB records). As it happens, this was not too well
thought out and has been denigrated, but the basic idea isn't bad.

  Let's assume that you have three machines, all of which have MX
records that say they accept mail for yorku.ca.  In a Hesiod, PH, DNS,
X.500 or other distributed database, you have an entry
	davecb	86400	MB	mail-server-3.svcs.yorku.ca.
  This means that any of the machines which receives mail for yorku.ca
can do an extra (whatever)-lookup and find that mail-server-3 is the
one with davecb's mailbox.  (I'm assuming that the three machines that
are MX'd also are mailbox servers of the opop/imap sort)
  If dave's mailbox server is down, the message sits around locally for
a while, hopefully until I get server # 3 fixed or change the routing
to point to server # 2.


  So one could well have a service for a whole community, such as
chatham.on.ca, and support it without having to create accounts on a
single tiemsharing server to do so.

--dave  
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | davecb@CCS.YorkU.CA | lethe!dave
72 Abitibi Ave.,      | 
Willowdale, Ontario,  | York more-or-less postmaster and
CANADA. 416-223-8968  | occasional sendfail(8) consultant.
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: lawrence@combdyn.com (Lawrence Chen)
Subject: Re: Geographic Naming Conventions Considered Harmful
Organization: Combustion Dynamics Ltd.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:20:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan05.043626.22116@xenitec.on.ca> vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley) writes:
>
>Let's say I work in Beavertown, Ontario and use a modem to access a network 
>point of presence in Toronto.  I have registered as acme.beavertown.on.ca.
>Now let's say I move to Moosetown, Ontario.  I'm still accessing  the Toronto 
>POP with a dialup modem, nothing has changed as far as the network is concerned 
>but now I must change my network address to acme.moosetown.on.ca?  This is an
>unatural imposition.
>
I was wondering if somebody would bring this up....

There was a period for several months when a system in Medicine Hat moved
to Parks Ville, BC.  It was known as "dialup.uumh.ab.ca"...and for several
months after it moved, it continued to operate as "dialup.uumh.ab.ca"....
even though it was clearly in the wrong province.

The system has since become "dialup.rain.com"....when it changed its source.

>
>(I think I'll get switchview.waterloo.on.ca registered to add to this list :)
>-- 
So, when I move combdyn back to a .ca domain....do I register two domains

combdyn.medicine-hat.ab.ca and combdyn.calgary.ab.ca, or can it just
be combdyn.ab.ca?  And, what happens if we open an office (again) in
Mississauga, ON?
-- 
 --EMAIL-----------------------------PHONE-----------FAX------------
 | WORK: lawrence@combdyn.com      | (403)529-2162 | (403)529-2516 |
 | HOME: dreamer@lhaven.uumh.ab.ca | (403)526-6019 | (403)529-5102 |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
  disclamer = (working_for && !representing) + (Combustion Dynamics Ltd.);
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: mills@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gary Mills)
Subject: Re: The Left Hand Side
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:47:18 GMT

In <1igo87INNmpp@access.usask.ca> andrew@herald.usask.ca (Derek Andrew,,,) writes:

>					 We are looking to expanding
>the left hand side to be something like John_Smith@Sask.USask.CA. The
>next John Smith might be John.Q.Smith@Sask.USask.CA. 

>				 Someone pointed out that the period
>is not a good punctuation character on the left hand side because of
>some sort of difficulty in sending to X.400 sites.

Actually, a period in the local-part is invalid according to RFC-822,
unless the local-part is quoted.  Few mailers enforce that, however.
We went with an underscore.  I'm Gary_Mills@Umanitoba.CA.
-- 
-Gary Mills-         -Networking Group-          -U of M Computer Services-
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: lawrence@combdyn.com (Lawrence Chen)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Combustion Dynamics Ltd.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:58:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan04.082401.22071@xenitec.on.ca> eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.074003.9959@cs.UAlberta.CA> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes:
>>How do I remember people's email addresses?
>>
>>Most of the time, I go to a saved message in  elm  and reply to it.
>>Other times, I use finger name@site
>
>Isn't it annoying when you find that that gateway has firewalled finger?
>
Then there is the fact that not everybody with an FQDN is on Internet.  I've
gotten nasty grams about people not being able to finger users on my machine.

They can't seem to understand that finger doesn't work over UUCP.

-- 
 --EMAIL-----------------------------PHONE-----------FAX------------
 | WORK: lawrence@combdyn.com      | (403)529-2162 | (403)529-2516 |
 | HOME: dreamer@lhaven.uumh.ab.ca | (403)526-6019 | (403)529-5102 |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
  disclamer = (working_for && !representing) + (Combustion Dynamics Ltd.);
Newsgroups: can.domain