From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Tired of that subject line. "Pick the 'right' woman, John."
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:55:47 GMT

> = (John Stevens) writes:
>> = ( Steve Novak) writes:
>>> = (John Stevens) writes:
>>>> = (David Knapp) writes:

>>>>I would much rather that the woman I care about do what she feels
>>>>most comfortable doing with her own body, because *she* is the one it would
>>>>affect the most.

>>>I don't view 9 months of pregnancy as affecting the woman more than
>>>dying.

>>David didn't mention dying; you did.  What's your point?

>The baby dies.  With all the rationalizations and renaming I've heard,
>still, no one has satisfied me that killing a fetus is any different than
>killing a baby.

Try this: an alive, breathing human being is sentient and can feel pain.

Maybe you could ask that Ace of Stats, Greg Clausen, how many aborted
fetuses are similar?

Also, killing a fetus frees an alive, breathing human being - the woman -
from being forced to carry to term.  A fetus is far different from a baby,
since it is intrusive of the woman's body.  That, to me, supercedes any
alleged "rights" of an unthinking blob of cells.

>>BTW, how do you think 9 months of forced pregnancy followed by 18 years of
>>forced motherhood would "affect" a woman?

>About the same as it affects the father.  

C'mon.  Are you saying the number of single fathers is anywhere CLOSE to
the number of single mothers?  Are you really unaware that a man who
impregnates a women can just go spelunking in New Zealand, and the heck
with the woman?

Besides, you avoided the question.  Please answer: since you incorrectly
stated that "9 months of pregnancy" is all that a woman goes through,
answer this statement when it's appended with "...AND 18 years of
forced motherhood."  You, and Knapp, and I were all talking about the
WOMAN.  Please don't obfuscate with Tangents for the Answer Impaired.

>Being a responsible adult has many advantages, but facing your 
>responsibilities can sometimes be very hard work.

Then I guess you agree a woman that has an abortion because she knows she
can't handle these reponsibilities is showing quite the maturity, hmm?  Or
do you enjoy all of the abused children in this country, with far from
loving parents?

In addition to forced birth, are you additionally proposing
forced-loving-parentage?  You must be, or you must admit that you don't
give a shit about at least some children after they're born - to abusing
parents.

>Some people never grow up.  Some TRY never to grow up.  But
>certain responsibilities come to you, no matter how hard you try to
>avoid them.

Well, certain reponsibilities can be avoided, like terminating an
unwanted pregnancy, and it's not even hard.  This really has nothing to do
with "growing up".                                

I mean, if you're really concerned with the quality of life for a child,
why would you want those unable or unwilling to _be_ parents to _beocme_
parents?

I suggest you re-examine your motives.  Sounds more like control feakage
rather than any kind of compassion or even reality.
-- 
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| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
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steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion