HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gene_Ledbetter@internetqm.llnl.gov (Gene Ledbetter)
Newsgroups: soc.veterans
Subject: R.I.P.
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:25:45 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

         Regarding:               R.I.P.
              
VIETNAM HANDS OVER REMAINS OF U.S. SOLDIERS

    By Bill Tarrant

    HANOI, Dec 15, Reuter - Vietnam on Tuesday handed over to 
the U.S. military the remains of Americans killed at least 
two decades ago, as the old foes try to bury the bitter 
legacy of the Indochina war.
    American servicemen put eight wooden boxes inside metal 
caskets in a solemn ceremony on the tarmac of Hanoi's Noi Bai 
international airport.
    Watched by a few Vietnamese officials, an American honour 
guard  representing the army, navy, air force and marines 
placed a folded U.S. flag, wrapped in plastic, on each of the 
caskets before loading them onto a C-141 cargo plane.
    "The Vietnamese don't like us to display the American 
flag in their country," said army Lieutenant Colonel David 
Fredrikson, public affairs director of a military Joint Task 
Force Full Accounting (JTFFA) in Hawaii.
    Washington has refused to open diplomatic ties with 
Hanoi. But on Monday it announced it was easing the economic 
embargo imposed on Hanoi in 1964 by allowing American firms 
to open offices and hire staff in Vietnam.
    Fredrikson said the flags would be draped over the 
caskets once the plane was on its way to Guam and then to 
Hawaii.
    Vietnamese officials said the boxes contained the bones, 
teeth, clothing or other personal belongings of 20 soldiers 
found over the last few weeks by joint U.S.-Vietnamese search 
teams or handed over by villagers to Hanoi officials.
    "It is extremely rare to find even an almost complete set 
of remains," Fredrikson said.
    U.S. military doctors who examined the remains in Hanoi 
last weekend said they were confident they would be able to 
identify at least 10 sets once they got back to the U.S. 
army's Central Identification Laboratory in Honolulu.
    The handover ceremony had been planned for weeks.
    The White House said it relaxed its embargo due to 
Vietnam's increased cooperation in determining the fate of 
Americans unaccounted for from the Vietnam War, which ended 
in 1975.
    "We welcome the news and it is an encouraging gesture," 
Ho Xuan Dich, head of the Vietnamese Missing-In-Action (MIA) 
office, told Reuters before handing the wooden boxes to U.S. 
army Lieutenant-Colonel Jack Donovan, who heads a U.S. MIA 
office in Hanoi.
    "But the U.S. side must go further," Dich said, adding 
that Hanoi and Washington could resolve the MIA issue faster 
if the United States normalised relations.
    Fredrikson said Vietnam's decision to open its archives 
to U.S. experts had been a breakthrough, although belated.
    Dich said Vietnam had handed over a total of 404 sets of 
remains, including those on Tuesday, since 1973. Fredrikson 
said only 270 sets had been identified.
    "You sometimes get a commingling of remains. It's not 
uncommon to get  animal remains," he said.



Newsgroups: soc.veterans
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: schism in the Faith
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:28:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47431
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Dec11.151444.1503@newscan.canada.sun.com>
bahainvs!johnw@cs.UMD.EDU (John Wiegley) writes:

>This is the only definition of Covenant Breaker.  Here are some
>other kinds of people:
[These categories are the author's, and there is no claim that the
list is exhaustive. --rdt]
>  enemies of the Faith: are those who disbelieve, and seek to
>    harm the Faith or the believers
[IMHO this does not say, nor was it intended to imply, that those who
disbelieve necessarily seek to harm the Faith or the Baha'is. --rdt]
>  heedless persons: are those who disbelieve, but remain
>    inactive
>  friends of the faith: are those who disbelieve (or perhaps
>    believe), and remain strictly "cordial" with the Baha'is.
>  Baha'is: are those who believe and have declared themselves
>    as such
>  Baha'is deprived of voting rights: are those who have broken
>    the laws of Baha'u'llah, willfully, and who choose not
>    to stop their actions

How nice.  I am now an enemy of the faith, since whenever I argue against
something claimed by Baha'is, I "seek to harm the Faith".

[There is no official designation such as "enemy of the Baha'i Faith."
Whether an individual bears enmity toward the faith is a matter of
that individual's conscience. --rdt]

How does the Baha'i Faith say that enemies of the Faith must be
treated?

[Short answer (I've said enough!): with utmost kindness and love. --rdt]
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: Terry Maton <maton@herald.usask.ca>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: From the Baha'i Writings
Date: 11 Dec 92 02:00:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47203
Organization: -

Verily the most necessary thing is contentment under all
circumstances; by this one is preserved from morbid conditions
and from lassitude.  Yield not to grief and sorrow: they cause 
the greatest misery.  Jealousy consumeth the body and anger
doth burn the liver: avoid these two as you would a lion.

Baha'u'llah - Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p.117

Terry Maton
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

INTERNET:   maton@sask.usask.ca   or   maton@herald.usask.ca
FREENET:    ap322@cleveland.freenet.edu

  "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens" -- Baha'u'llah
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Science and religion
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:23:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47426
Distribution: world
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <1992Dec8.162224.9087@medtron.medtronic.com> jb8285@medtronic.com (Jeffrey R. Brown) writes:
>Basically, what happens to my body after death has never been a big
>issue with me.  When I read, in the synopsis of the Kitab-i-Aqdas,
>that burial, not cremation, is the way to handle the bodies of the
>deceased, my reaction was probably something like, "OK, fine with me."
>And so I didn't bother to study this issue more deeply.
>However, even if this issue is unimportant to me, I respect the fact
>that there are many people to whom the question of what happens to
>their bodies after death is of critical import.  Perhaps you are one
>of them.

No, I'm not.

The reason I bring up this point is that your religion claims to be a perfect
religion that comes from God.  Not one thing in it, if properly understood,
is wrong.

Cremation is indeed a very minor question.  But a mistake in even a minor
question is enough to make it possible that major questions might also be
answered with mistakes.  If you are wrong about cremation, perhaps you are
also wrong about banning women from the Universal House of Justice or
banning homosexuality, both of which _are_ major questions.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:25:00
From: vkitzing%mpimfhd.uucp@Germany.EU.net (Eberhard von Kitzing)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: <none>
Subject: Re: New York Times Editorial [December 8, 1992]

> Having read this article, I would like to ask a question: How many
> Baha'is is there in the world?

The following information is taken from a publication of the National 
Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of Germany.  It is my personal 
translation,  any errors should be assigned to me.  

To estimate world wide the number of followers of a religion is
generally a difficult task and vary from source to scource. The "World
Christian Encyclopedia" is assumed to be one of the most precise
sources for such numbers.  The Editor of this encyclopedy David B.
Barrett publishes in the "Yearbook 1992" of the Encyclopedia
Britannica the number of Baha'is in 1991 with 5,400,000.  The
international Baha'i Institutions give a little bit more conservative
number of more than 5 million Baha'i.

According to the "World Christian Encyclopedia" the anual growth rate of
the number of Baha'i between 1970 and 1985 was 3.63%. This makes the
Baha'i-Faith to the fastest increasing independent religion. In same
time Christianity had an annual growth rate of 1.64%, the Islam 2.74%,
Hinduims 2.3%, Buddhism 1.67% und Judasism 1.09%. Some Christian and
Muslim denominations had a larger groth rate, but these were not
represented in more than 100 countries.  According to the "World
Christian Encyclopedia" in the beginning of the 80, the Baha'i-Faith
was represented in more than 190 countries by a "considerable" number
of followers, Christianity in 223 and Islam in 162 countries.

These statistics have been updated in the "Yearbook 1992" of the
Encyclopedia Britannica. The geographic distribution of the largest
World Religions is given as follows: Christianity in 254 countries and
territories, Baha'i-Faith 205, Islam 172, Judaism 125, Hinduism 88
and Buddism 86.
------------------------------------------------------------
Eberhard von Kitzing
Max-Planck-Institut fuer Medizische Forschung
Jahnstr. 29, D6900 Heidelberg, FRG

FAX : +49-6221-486 459  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-486 467  (work)
Tel.: +49-6221-385 129  (home)

email: vkitzing%mpimfhd.uucp@Germany.EU.net  or  vkitzing@mpimfhd.uucp
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:08:51
Organization: Towfiq System
From: xxbrent@convx1.lerc.nasa.gov (Brent Anderson)
In-reply-to: noori@mat-stat.uit.no's message of 12 Dec 92 21:34:30 GMT
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: <none>
Subject: Re: Quotation on equality between man and woman

    The world of humanity is possessed of two wings: the male and the
    female.  So long as these two wings are not equivalent in
    strength, the bird will not fly.  Until womankind reaches the same
    degree as man, until she enjoys the same areana of activity,
    extraordinary attainment for humanity will not be realized;
    humanity cannot wing its way to heights of real attainment.  When
    the two wings or parts become equivalent in strength, enjoying the
    same prerogatives, the flight of man will be exceedingly lofty and
    extraordinary.  Therefore, woman must receive the same education
    as man and all inequality be adjusted.  Thus, imbued with the same
    virtues as man, rising through all the degrees of human
    attainment, women will become the peers of men, and until this
    equality is established, true progress and attainment for the
    human race will not be facilitated.

    The evident reasons underlying this are as follows: Woman by
    nature is opposed to war; she is an advocate of peace.  Children
    are reared and brought up by the mothers who give them the first
    principles of education and labor assiduously in their behalf.
    Consider, for instance, a mother who has tenderly reared a son for
    twenty years to the age of maturity.  Surely she will not consent
    to having that son torn asunder and killed in the field of battle.
    Therefore, as woman advances toward the degree of man in power and
    privilege, with the right of vote and control in human government,
    most assuredly war will cease; for woman is naturally the most
    devoted and staunch advocate of international peace.

    ('Abdu'l-Baha, "Promulgation of Universal Peace", page 375)

Shorter references to women and men as the two wings of a bird can
also be found in "Baha'i World Faith", page 288 and "Selections from
the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha", page 302.

Warm regards,
Brent Anderson
xxbrent@convx1.lerc.nasa.gov
From: rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Some questions about the Bahai Faith.
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:01:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47425
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I have a some questions about the Bahai Faith:

1. What were the exact claims of the holy Baha'ullah?

2. What was his mission? Did he accomplish it? 

3. Was his appearance predicted by other religions?

4. Do Bahai's consider them selves as Muslims? and do they
   call their religion Islam?

 
I would appreciate any in depth answers to these questions.

Sincerely,


-- 
||\\  ||         //\\     ||\\         *******************    (Note: 
|| \\ ||        //==\\    ||//         * LOVE FOR ALL    *     views    
||  \\||abeel  //    \\.  ||\\ana      * HATRED FOR NONE *      are 
[e-mail: rana@rintintin.colordo.edu]   *******************     mine)
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: schism in the Faith
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47429
Distribution: world
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

What about the "Reformed Baha'is" (or whatever they call themselves) in
Las Vegas, NM?  I walked in late in this discussion, so I don't know
if they have been mentioned.

They have been declared "Convenant Breakers" (when I lived in New
Mexico, I was told that we were supposed to avoid going to Las Vegas, NM,
because of this.), however they continue to use the Baha'i name.  In
many New Mexico telephone directories, they used to be the only entry in
the book for Baha'is.

As part of my "independent investigation of the truth", I have a hard
time reconciling that the Faith has no schisms when I think about the folks
in Las Vegas.  They are living by their own interpretation of the words of
Baha'u'llah and Abdul Baha (if I remember correctly, they question Shoghi
Effendi's role), so that strikes me as a schism based on different
interpretations, similar to schisms that have occurred in other religions.

Could someone tell me what I am missing?

-- 
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------
Alan F. Perry                      | "e-mail is wrecking my life"
esprit@netcom.com        (home)    |            - some random person 
allan@hakkinen.lynx.com  (work)    |              standing in San Francisco
From: noori@mat-stat.uit.no (Noorbakhsh Monzavi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Quotation on equality between and woman
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:34:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47205
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

[The Arabic phrase, Allah'u'Abha, may be translated as "God is the
Most Glorious."  It is often used as a Baha'i salutation. --rdt]

Allah'u'Abha dear friends all over the world,

I have recently tried to find one of the famous quotations of the Beloved
Master, Abdu'l-Baha, which concerns equality between women and men for a
non-Baha'i friend, but I have not been able to find that quotation in
English so far. 
In that quotation Abdu'l-Baha compares humanity to a bird with two wings.
One  wing is man, and the other is woman. The statement of the quotation
is that if women are not allowed to participate in the affairs of the
world, humanity cannot progress (since a bird with just one strong wing
cannot fly).

I will be grateful to receive the quotation from anyone who knows this 
quotation, with thanks in advance.

With the best wishes and greetings

Noorbakhsh (Noori)
From: dwatson1@metz.une.edu.au (David Watson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Schisms
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:13:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47428
Distribution: world
Organization: University of New England, Armidale, Australia

In article <1fiq6oINNhjr@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ted5@po.CWRU.Edu (Thomas E. Davidson) writes:
>In a previous article, allegra!lieuwen@allegra.att.com (Dan Lieuwen) says:
>
>>from the church.  Paul did it in his letters.  (I know Baha'i's following
>>Islam [...]
>
>
>	Baha'is don't follow Islam, my friend, unless they're somehow 
>confused by the culture in which they live--in much the same way that 
>some Baha'is, pressured by Western society, celebrate Christmas.
>

In your reply you refer to the issue....

Baha'is don't follow Islam, my friend, unless they're somehow
confused by the culture in which they live--in much the same way that
some Baha'is, pressured by Western society, celebrate Christmas.

I as one Baha'i celebrate Christmas because it is a holy day marking
the historic date (as passed down) of Jesus Christ.  I consider it as holy
a day as those in Islam, Buddhism, Judaism.

Our family celebrates holidyas froms all faiths and invite friends in from
varying faiths on "their" holidays, not due to pressure of western culture,
rather to celebrate the richness of gods' manisfestations and acknowledge
the oneness of religion.

Of course the kids think it's great to go through Hanukkah, and then follow it
with Christmas. Their friends recon they get more holidays and presents than
anyone else! ;->

David Watson

"Where there is love nothing is too much trouble and there is always time"
	Abdu'l Baha
From: Guillaume.Petraud@babbage.imag.fr (PETRAUD guillaume)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: New York Times Editorial [December 8, 1992]
Date: 11 Dec 92 10:23:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47204
Organization: University of Grenoble (France)

Having read this article, I would like to ask a question: How many
Baha'is is there in the world?

Thanks for your answers...
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: k-12 study groups
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:15:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


I would like to know what kind of things happen in First Day
School.  I have been asked to help out for first month of 92.

Do people hold mini-meetings?  

-a

-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: wagner@ives.cs.unc.edu (Michael Wagner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Quietist meeting in Denver, CO
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:57:27 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

>We'll be in Denver this weekend, and I was wondering whether there's a
>queitist Meeting there. Anyone know?

What is a Quietist meeting?  Is it probably the same thing
I'd call an un-programmed meeting?  I'm not sure that I've
ever heard this word used before as an adjective for a quaker
meeting.  I thought it was some kind of religious movement in
historical times.

Mike

Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: gnat@stein.u.washington.edu (L Boyd)
Subject: Re: Are troops effective care-givers
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:17:00 GMT


Yea --

It's a great thought (bombardment with food), but that will kill folks
just as quick as not feeding them at all.

Rebounding from starvation takes *months* intensive (25-30cc X 1 hour)
liquid feeding and gradual reintroduction to solid food.  Then once
folks start getting stronger, they're prime targets for problems with
disease, so they need close medical observation.

In one sense, the troops make great caregivers. They have engineers and
equipment for water purification and other hygene stuff -- that, it seems
to me is 1/2 the battle. Most of the people who survive the starvation
will succumb to dehydration caused by the sickness from drinking contaminated
water.

Finally, a chance for the military to be all they can be!

Lauren
From: stalling@stein.u.washington.edu (Michael Stallings)
Subject: k-12 study groups
Summary: k-12 study groups
Keywords: Young Friends
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:03:43 GMT

I am looking into something to do with Young Friends (12+) for First Day School
via a k-12 newsgroup or study group or simulation.  I have vaguely heard about
these things in PC newsmags.  They include things like an Arab-Israeli 
problem-solving game and other global village-oriented scenarios.

Can anyone direct me to anywhere on the net where this kind of thing is
happenning?  Or maybe to the right place to ask the question?

Thanks
Mike Stallings
stalling@u.washington.edu
From: jsax@igc.apc.org (Joel Sax)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Joel GAzis-SAx Vita
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:04:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1744600052:000:2452
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Dec 17 12:04:00 1992


From: Joel Sax <jsax>
Subject: Joel GAzis-SAx Vita

                                Joel GAzis-SAx
                            2727 Midtown Court #37
                           Palo Alto, CA     94303
                                 415-321-3449


     Joel GAzis-SAx represents a new kind of journalist who uses the 
     medium of electronic networking to report the news.  In June, 1992, 
     Joel journeyed to former Yugoslavia to work with the peace movement 
     and to report, firsthand, his conversations and other experiences.  
     His "electronic magazine" MIRacles, was broadly disseminated over 
     the Alliance for Progressive Communications, InterNet, EcuNet, 
     QuakerNet, and many other networks and bulletin boards.  Since his 
     return, he has spoken at events organized by SANE/Freeze, Amnesty 
     International, Fellowship of Reconciliation, Humboldt State 
     Universtiy, and the Friends. 

     Prior to this, Joel facilitated the Middle East Conferences for 
     PeaceNet.  He formulated the structure of the conferences and 
     managed them during the Gulf War. 

     Joel possesses a B.A. in Anthropology (1980) from Pomona College, 
     Claremont, California.  He is a member of Palo Alto Friends Meeting 
     (Quakers), California.  The Friends sponsored his trip to former 
     Yugoslavia. 

      =================================================================

                     Topics and audiovisual requirements:

      Beyond Ethnic Conflict:  The Reasoning of War and the Creation of 
         Hatred in former Yugoslavia  (VCR helpful; slide projector) 

                   The Peace Movement in Croatia and Serbia

           The Arms Trade and the Destruction of former Yugoslavia 
                        (VCR helpful; slide projector) 

               Human Rights and Resistance to War in Vojvodina

      =================================================================

     Joel is also available to take part in panels discussing the 
     following topics:  former Yugoslavia, human rights, resistance to 
     war, the arms trade, sanctions, military intervention. 

      =================================================================

     He requires transportation, housing, food, and an honorarium 
     (negotiable). 

     Recent publications:

     "We miss our friends", The Friend, 16 October 1992

     "The Anguish of Vukovar", Friends Journal, December 1992
From: ebenami@igc.apc.org (Etan Ben-Ami)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Are troops effective care-givers
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:26:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1744600049:000:605
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ebenami    Dec 14 22:26:00 1992


Dear Friends,
    At the risk of seeming facetious (sp?) at this hour,
wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to bombard Somalia
with MREs (Meals, Ready to Eat).  They're the little plastic
food pouches that they give all the GIs.  Drop a ton of them
over the countryside and let the troops feed themselves --
at home.
    I actually wonder what the logistics of a massive food
drop would be.  Rice, cassava, etc. all in small enough
packages so that gathering would be possible and theft
ineffective.  Didn't we airlift food to Berlin for some
months during the crisis there?  
          -- Etan Ben-Ami
From: nickh+@cs.cmu.edu (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Quietist meeting in Denver, CO
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:16:52 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

We'll be in Denver this weekend, and I was wondering whether there's a
queitist Meeting there. Anyone know?

Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu