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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:40:35 BST
From:         "(Carmine Marino)" <carmine@VERDIX.COM>
Subject:      Re: diving watches
              at Sep 29, 92 2:05 pm

>
> Mike White writes:
> >
> >  CA Whitfield writes:
> >> I'd like to know if any net.divers have anything to say on[Omega
> >> Seamaster Professional],
> >> or other watches of that ilk (Rolex, Tag-Heuer, Seiko, etc).
> >
> >Wow, that's a really mixed bag.  The Rolex Submariner is superb:
>
> It's also **EXPENSIVE**. You only get a watch which is nothing more
> than a good water proof watch. No stopwatch, alarm, etc.
> Also, if I remember correctly, it has the UGLY rolex lens for
> magnifying the date, yukk !
>
> I have seen several nice Tag-Heuers, from $500-$2000+. Nice but once
> more, it's just a watch.
>
> I used to own a Seiko sports 100, digital watch. Yeah right, used to :-(
> It flooded during SNORKLING on holiday in Tunesia !
>
> >[stufff deleted]
>
> If you want a watch for diving, why not pick a Casio. They are cheap,
> $30-$100, rated 50, 100, or 200m and provide you with the normal timer,
> stopwatch and alarm. In addition, some have thermometers, DEPTH GAUGES,
> heart frequency display, microwave oven, kitchen sink, you name it !!!!
>
> Personally, I use a Casio G-Shock DM6000. The stopwatch can log several
> dives, I think 10 as a maximum including surface intervals. It has a
> protective rubber outline, which prevents you from damaging it, or
> accidentally pressing buttons. It has a built in illumination,
> so you can see what you're doing, even on night dives. It is rated 200m,
> I've been using it to ~45m. Even pushing buttons at depth has never
> caused any problems.
>
Hi Han,

   How much did you pay for the  Casio G-Shock DM6000?
   I am interested in getting something that logs dives.


Thanks.

   Carmine Marino
   Case Development
   Verdix Corp.
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:44:44 +0100
From:         "(Han Weegink)" <weegink@ICT.NL>
Subject: Re: To compute or not to compute

>From sun4nl!BROWNVM.brown.edu!SCUBA-L Thu Oct  1 19:14:39 1992
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>Reply-To: Scuba diving discussion list <SCUBA-L@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
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>From: Clarke Whitehead <TSCWHITEHEAD@CC.WEBER.EDU>
>Subject:      Re:  To compute or not to compute
>To: Multiple recipients of list SCUBA-L <SCUBA-L@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
>Status: R
>
Clarke writes:

>Han,
>
>>Personally, to me this sounds too much like they're relying on the
>>computer, and we all know that 'computers make mistakes'...
>
>Do we really?  Actually I'm thinking about getting a computer primarily
>to avoid mistakes.  The odds of the computer making an error is much less
>than the odds of human errors when working with tables.  Computers are
>much better and more reliable at those type of mundane and routine
>calculations than we are.
>
>	Clarke
>

The point I was trying to make: do not rely on a computer *only*,
but combine it with your own calculations using the tables. This way,
at least you have some idea about what you're doing/have been doing
if your computer dies.

Some people I've been diving with, did not plan dives but used the
computer as a minute-by-minute guide (oh boy, were almost out of
time, let's ascend a few meters and see what happens ... :-(


Han Weegink
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IIIII  CCCCC  TTTTTTT  Han Weegink                            info only
  I   C     C    T     ICT Automatisering Deventer BV
  I   C          T     Aerospace Group        Holland
  I   C          T     E-mail:    weegink@ict.nl
  I   C     C    T     Telefax:   +31 (0)5700 21362
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:08:00 EDT
From:         "Kim.Dyer" <21329KAD@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      To compute or not to compute

When I was on a Blackbeard's recently it seemed that EVERYONE else
on the boat was using a dive computer ... and there I sat with my
little tables.  I missed at least ONE dive because the tables do
not give you credit for the time you spend at 50 feet after a
quick look-see at 100.

I'm wondering if I should make plans for SCUBA Claus to leave
a computer in my bootie this Christmas.  Assuming I can fit it
into my budget, what are the pros and cons of diving with a
computer?  (I'll check the archives first for specific recommendations
if I decide to go with one.)
From: ray@tsw.UUCP (Ray Izumi)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Subject: Re: books on aquatic life
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:14:20 GMT
Organization: The System Works, Redmond, WA

In article <9210011040.AA16207@ictser> weegink@ICT.NL ((Han Weegink)) writes:
>Being interested in some of the funny/scary creatures I see around
>me when I'm diving, I'm looking for a good book (nice pictures
>+ TEXT) on fish and other living things under water.
>
>Any good suggestions ?
>

If you're thinking about the Caribbean, definitely get the two books by 
Paul Humann. One is about fish, the other about invertebrates. These are
field-type guides, but have lots more useful info than the usual book of
this genre.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ray Izumi, The System Works, Redmond, WA     206-823-4685      uunet!tsw!ray
"No amount of not finding something proves it doesn't exist."
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:23:00 EDT
From:         Scuba Buddha <MCCABE@ITHACA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: To compute or not to compute

Well, there has been much talk of computers vs. tables, and we all know
which are easier to use, but there has been very little/no discussion
of PADI's wheel.
        For those of you unfamiliar, the Wheel allows calculations
for Multi-Level diving, and eliminates the need to deal with residual
nitrogen through RNT, TBT and ABT caculations.
        It's easier to use, teach, and in my opinion, safer for new
students because misreading generally (I hope!) ends up in a more
conservative dive.
        In my classes, and the classes that my fellow instructors teach,
we only use the wheel. The tables are explained in the book, but we only
have the students read that, and answer their questions.
        What do all of YOU feel about the wheel, as it is a wonderful
backup for a computer provided you dive the plan.

Darren P. McCabe "Hal"
PADI OWSI-57901
Medic First Aid Instructor
Cornell U. Scuba Program
(Ithaca College Student! Go Bombers!)
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Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:54:00 CST
From:         WILLY <BRWILLIAMS@STTHOMAS.EDU>
Subject:      unsubcribe? help?

I would like to be removed from the mailing list.\
How can I accomplish this?\
Can anyone help me?
From: TSCWHITEHEAD@CC.WEBER.EDU (Clarke Whitehead)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Subject: Re: To compute or not to compute
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:00 GMT
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Han writes:

>The point I was trying to make: do not rely on a computer *only*,
>but combine it with your own calculations using the tables. This way,
>at least you have some idea about what you're doing/have been doing
>if your computer dies.

Han, I agree completely.  I'm not advocating the use of a computer to
avoid planning dives or to dive at the limits.  My only disagreement
was with your statement that "computers make mistakes", and using
that as an arguement against them.  As long as you use the right computer
for your diving environment (and one that is well proven), the computer
tends to be much more accurate than we can be through the use of
tables.  I also agree with Dave Story's remark that because of the
accuracy of computers, it's easy to dive the limits, leaving little
room for error.  Common sense has to be used with computers as well as
with tables.

	Clarke
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:05:22 +0100
From:         "(Han Weegink)" <weegink@ICT.NL>
Subject:      diving watches

Mike White writes:
>
>  CA Whitfield writes:
>> I'd like to know if any net.divers have anything to say on[Omega
>> Seamaster Professional],
>> or other watches of that ilk (Rolex, Tag-Heuer, Seiko, etc).
>
>Wow, that's a really mixed bag.  The Rolex Submariner is superb:

It's also **EXPENSIVE**. You only get a watch which is nothing more
than a good water proof watch. No stopwatch, alarm, etc.
Also, if I remember correctly, it has the UGLY rolex lens for
magnifying the date, yukk !

I have seen several nice Tag-Heuers, from $500-$2000+. Nice but once
more, it's just a watch.

I used to own a Seiko sports 100, digital watch. Yeah right, used to :-(
It flooded during SNORKLING on holiday in Tunesia !

>[stufff deleted]

If you want a watch for diving, why not pick a Casio. They are cheap,
$30-$100, rated 50, 100, or 200m and provide you with the normal timer,
stopwatch and alarm. In addition, some have thermometers, DEPTH GAUGES,
heart frequency display, microwave oven, kitchen sink, you name it !!!!

Personally, I use a Casio G-Shock DM6000. The stopwatch can log several
dives, I think 10 as a maximum including surface intervals. It has a
protective rubber outline, which prevents you from damaging it, or
accidentally pressing buttons. It has a built in illumination,
so you can see what you're doing, even on night dives. It is rated 200m,
I've been using it to ~45m. Even pushing buttons at depth has never
caused any problems.

Han Weegink  (PADI AOW)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
IIIII  CCCCC  TTTTTTT  Han Weegink                            info only
  I   C     C    T     ICT Automatisering Deventer BV
  I   C          T     Aerospace Group        Holland
  I   C          T     E-mail:    weegink@ict.nl
  I   C     C    T     Telefax:   +31 (0)5700 21362
IIIII  CCCCC     T     TelePhone: +31 (0)5700 33888
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:43:08 +0100
From:         "(Han Weegink)" <weegink@ICT.NL>
Subject: Re: To compute or not to compute

Kim.Dyer <21329KAD@msu.bitnet> writes:

>When I was on a Blackbeard's recently it seemed that EVERYONE else
>on the boat was using a dive computer ... and there I sat with my
>little tables.  I missed at least ONE dive because the tables do
>not give you credit for the time you spend at 50 feet after a
>quick look-see at 100.
>
>I'm wondering if I should make plans for SCUBA Claus to leave
>a computer in my bootie this Christmas.  Assuming I can fit it
>into my budget, what are the pros and cons of diving with a
>computer?  (I'll check the archives first for specific recommendations
>if I decide to go with one.)
>

When I did my PADI Advanced OW course, all instructors used computers,
(some students as well). After doing some multi-level dives using the
computer, I asked some questions regarding The Wheel. I had read about
it, but had never seen one. I expected to learn how to use it during
the advanced course, but it turned out that some of the instructors
didn't even know how to use the wheel for multi-level dives.

Their excuse was that everyone will be using computers in stead of
oldfashioned stuff like The Wheel/charts.

Personally, to me this sounds too much like they're relying on the
computer, and we all know that 'computers make mistakes'...


Han Weegink
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
IIIII  CCCCC  TTTTTTT  Han Weegink                            info only
  I   C     C    T     ICT Automatisering Deventer BV
  I   C          T     Aerospace Group        Holland
  I   C          T     E-mail:    weegink@ict.nl
  I   C     C    T     Telefax:   +31 (0)5700 21362
IIIII  CCCCC     T     TelePhone: +31 (0)5700 33888
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Return-Path: <Roberta_Alberding@CCMAIL>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:36:00 EST
From:         Roberta_Alberding@OCCSHOST.NLM.NIH.GOV
Subject:      Trip to Caymen

         I am coordinating a diving trip through the Aggressor Fleet
         charter in Morgan City, LA.  A group of us went on the trip
         to Turks & Caicos and had such a wonderful time that we
         decided to go on another trip in '93.

         I have 6 openings left for our reserved boat to Caymen.  The
         dates are June 26 - July 3, 1993.  The price is $1395 per
         person.  This price does not include airfare to Caymen.

         If you would like to sign-up for this trip, please drop me a
         note at ROBERTA_ALBERDING@OCCSHOST.NLM.NIH.GOV.  Of course,
         you may also call me at (301) 989-2485 (home) or
         (301)402-1705 (work).

         Roberta Alberding
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:58:00 EDT
From:         "Tony.Kuhlman" <ADP64@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: diving watches

Here's another vote for Casio watches.  I'm on my second one now.  The first
one lasted about 8 or 9 years.  I don't know the model number of the first
one, but it was of the 50M water-resistant variety.  I tend to be hard on
watches, and this one finally died only after I had hit it so hard and
repeatedly on things that I finally managed to break a piece of the crystal
out completely, and so damaged the watertight seal.

  The new one is of the 200M water-resistant variety.  I seem to remember,
however, that the instructions had some comment or disclaimer that this does
not stand for X number of meters to which the watch will resist water
pressure. Instead, it had a table that allowed you to determine how deep you
could presumedly go without damaging the watch.  If I can find the
instructions, I will post this info.  This sounds to me like a clever bit of
marketing on the part of the Casio people.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:06:00 CST
From:         Mahan_Stephen@LANMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL
Subject:      Dive watches

I've been using two different Casio 50M watches for dive duty for
several years, including using the stopwatch at 110 fsw.

The US Navy used to have only one watch on the approved list, the Rolex
Oyster.  Now they approve the Casio G-Shock too. (200M version)

steve
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
From: cgc2646@usl.edu (Cech Claude G)
Subject: Re: To compute or not to compute
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 16:52:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.121154.19989@cattnts.canada.ncr.com> craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
>In article <SCUBA-L%92093019114068@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> 21329KAD@MSU.BITNET (Kim.Dyer) writes:
>
>The cons:  If it fails mid dive, you must fall back to tables.  This means
>	   being thrust onto a square profile.  This will significantly
>	   increase your likelyhood of now being in a decompression dive.
>
>	:  A computer failure necessitates doing all your table calculations 
>	   under water.
>
>	:  If you rely on your computer for a while, you may forget how to
>	   do table calculations.  Then, if it fails and you are forced to
>	   fall back to tables.....
>
>

Just a thought - 

Years ago, Godden and Baddeley did a series of studies looking at memory in
divers (based, as I recall, on the aftermath of a project in which divers
were supposed to report their observations while being towed:  Out of the 
water, they couldn't recall much of what they were supposed to be looking
for).  The basic set-up:  Suit up two groups of divers, have them study some
materials, one group studying at 0 fsw, the other below.  Subdivide both
groups into two, depending on whether recall is attempted underwater or at
sea level.  What happened was that memory was considerably better for the
material when tested in the same environment in which it was learned.  

The relevance of this to Craig's observations is that maybe table calculations
ought to be practiced underwater as well as in a classroom.

Regards -
	Claude

(New Louisiana Culinary Treat After Hurricane Andrew:  Blackened Deadfish)

***************************************************************************
++        Claude  G. Cech        ++   Fine Print --  Opinions are like   ++
++    Department of Psychology   ++    puffer fish:  Impressive when     ++
++  U.  Southwestern Louisiana   ++  threatened, but potentially lethal  ++
++    e-mail: cgc2646@usl.edu    ++        if swallowed  whole .         ++   
***************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:03:00 CDT
From:         RAMBO <BC01869@SWTEXAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: diving watches

       Whats all this talk about diving watches?  For a really good
    inexpensive diving watch go with the Casio G-Shock watch.  *gasp*
    Yes, I really said Casio G-Shock.  Its the most rugged watch I
    have ever owned in or out of the water.  Its the only watch I have
    never managed to destroy either playing basketball or down at 120'
    in Cozumel.  The big plus is it only cost about $35 on sale at the
    local AAFES store on base, and I think it costs about $50-$60 out
    in the real world.  The watch has served me very well for the past
    four years in and out of the water and in a multitude of
    conditions.  You don't have to get fancy or expensive to get a
    great watch.

RAMBO
Brian Collins
NAUI Dive Master #D5963
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:09:47 -0600
From:         D_BASKIN@CCNODE.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: diving watches

>       Whats all this talk about diving watches?  For a really good
>    inexpensive diving watch go with the Casio G-Shock watch.  *gasp*
>    Yes, I really said Casio G-Shock.  Its the most rugged watch I
>    have ever owned in or out of the water.

It doesn't have that fine, distinguished look of the world's "great" watches,
but I ran over one with the car and it still works.  I'm satisfied.

Dale Baskin  <d_baskin@ccnode.colorado.edu> or <d_baskin%ccnode@colorado>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Subject: Titanic salvage
From: Kelly Cunningham  (Random Deviate))
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:51:36 CST
Reply-To: deviate@lipschitz.sfasu.edu
Distribution: usa

Just fyi.

Copyright 1992 by UPI
Reposted with permission from the ClariNet Electronic Newspaper newsgroup
clari.local.texas.  For more info on ClariNet, write to info@clarinet.com or
phone 1-800-USE-NETS.

	NORFOLK, Va. (UPI) -- A federal judge has ruled a Texas oil man has no
right to dive for artifacts from the wreck of the Titanic, and ordered
him to call back his high-tech salvage crew that was poised above the
wreck in the North Atlantic.
	U.S. District Court Judge J. Calvitt Clarke Jr. said Jack Grimm's
Marex-Titanic salvage group has no rights to the contents of the ill-
fated ocean liner, which hit an iceberg and sank on its maiden voyage in
1912, killing more than 1,500.
	The salvage rights still belong to Titanic Ventures of Southport,
Conn., Clarke ruled Friday. The group last conducted a dive at the site
in 1987 and plans another expedition in 1993.
	Grimm's group, based in Memphis, Tenn., contended that Titanic
Ventures had abandoned the wreck by failing to return for five years,
but Clarke agreed with the rival salvage group, which argued that the
sheer difficulty of the project made the delay unavoidable.
	Grimm's crew had circled the wreckage site -- the Titanic lies 2 1/2
miles beneath the sea south of Newfoundland -- during stormy conditions
this week, waiting for Clarke's ruling.
	After the judge's order, Grimm, 67, went to his rivals' attorneys
with a proposal to make exploration of the wreck a joint venture. His
offer was rejected.
	``We're not interested,'' Arnold Geller, president of a New York firm
that raises money for Titanic Ventures, told reporters.
	Grimm said he expected to lose $1 million on the aborted expedition.
But he compared it to the risks involved in drilling for oil.
	``Once, I drilled a 22,000-foot hole in the desert in New Mexico,''
recalled the wildcatter and explorer from Abilene, Texas. ``It took me
six months, and it was dry. This (expedition) is just another dry hole.
When these things happen, you just go on your way and put together
another deal.''
	The wreck of the Titanic was located in 1985 by a U.S.-French team
led by Robert Ballard, a scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic
Insititution in Massachusetts. Two years later, Titanic Ventures -- with
the help of the French government -- explored it with a television-
equipped robotic diving device and recovered more than 1,800 artifacts.
	The group plans to collect enough artifacts to fill a museum in New
York honoring the ship and its victims.
	The expedition planned in 1993 will be conducted with the aid of two
manned Russian submarines.

--
Randomly, Kelly Cunningham 
<deviate@lipschitz.sfasu.edu><f_cnnghamjk@ccsvax.sfasu.edu><jkellyc@tenet.edu>  
    NeXTMail (encouraged)          VMS Mail (tolerated)     Pine (beats mail)
"Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to listen to only new music."
                                                           -- Scott Simon
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Monday, 5 Oct 1992 09:24:04 PST
From: <FKK@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.scuba-l
Subject: Re: To compute or not to compute

How about diving with 2 computers? (If you have the bucks). I've been
doing it for the last couple of years.  The advantages:

1) if one goes out you can continue with your dive and /or your vacation
without hassels
2) you can loan one to a friend (if it hasn't been used recently)

etc -etc
My two? A Orca Delphi - which I'm planning to replace since the die regularly
and an Aladin Pro.  They almost always agree to within 1 ft of depth and
1 min of dive time so if one does go out its obvious.
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