HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Narrow width running shoes?
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:27:39 -0500

On 1/22/93, robertson said the most wonderful thing to All about Narrow width
running shoes?: 

  rn> I have narrow feet.  Can I buy running shoes in a narrow width?  Are
  rn> there stores in the Southern California area that sell them?
  rn> 

New Balance makes narrow shoes. Make sure you try on both the 600 and 900 series
(at least). The former has a wider toebox. Any athletic shoe store in Northern
California will carry New Balance. So does Nordstrom. You may have a hard time
finding the narrow width, but it shouldn't be to hard to get a store to order
them for you.

hh

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jcs@syzygy.hr.att.com (John C. Schwebel)
Subject: Re: Is running with shin splints okay?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:28:03 GMT
Summary: NO

In article <1k64lmINNfc4@mojo.eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>In article <C1Hy82.4HL@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070rajv@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Matthew Lewis) writes:
>>
>>I have always thought that one of the only ways to deal with shin splints was
>>to run through them.
>
>That's a good way to end up with permanent discomfort that no doctor can
>cure. With misinformation like this, it's no wonder there are so many
>inquiries about injuries at rec.running.
>
>If something hurts, you better stop immediately. Pain and injury hardly
>contribute to a productive workout.

I agree that's it dangerous to run through shin splints.

The last two years have been the first time that I've gotten shin splints.
In my case, I find it impossible to run through them.
It seems to take at least a month for them to heal.
If I try to run, the muscle cramps and knots up and doesn't
feel normal for a few days.

I don`t know the cause of the shin splints.
But there are know reasons why continued running causes worse problems.
Shin splints are the tearing of the muscle away from its attachments on the bone.
Continued running can lead to a stress fracture of the bone.
With a stress fracture your'e off running for a good six weeks.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: A contribution for the FAQ: SHOES
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:14:31 GMT

In article <SIERRA.93Jan25104743@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, sierra@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Sue Sierra) writes:
|> 
|> I appreciate this posting very much - I'd just been starting to wish I hadn't
|> thrown out the shoe review issue of Runners' World.  I think, however, that
|> before this goes in the FAQ it should be edited so that those shoes which
|> come only in men's models are clearly marked so.  Currently the women-only
|> shoes are marked off (and rightly so), but the men-only shoes are not
|> distinguished from those available in both men's and women's models.  Women
|> are not a "special interest" running group any more than men are.
|> 
|> Sue Sierra
|> sierra@cs.oberlin.edu

-- 
I whole-heartedly agree with you.  I realized part way through doing it that
I was leaving out the weight of the women's version, and that was due to
laziness, but that some of the shoes don't come in women's models, I overlooked
completely.   As I get time, I will add the information (or someone else is
welcome to).   
-----------------------------		-------------------------------
Thomas W. Page, Jr.			email:   page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu
3531 Boelter Hall			day:     310 206-8696
Department of Computer Science	
University of California
Los Angeles, 90024-1596
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: S106495@UMRVMA.umr.edu
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:49:11 GMT
Organization: Univ of MO - Rolla

     In my experience, "running" is what any given author considers to be an
ideal pace/attitude/style and "jogging" is any way of doing it the author
considers to be inferior.     I don't thing Websters makes a really concrete
distinction.

A question that puzzles me more is why does shameFUL mean the same thing as
 shameLESS ?

Newsgroups: rec.running
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: high school sub-fours
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:26:26 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services
From: rm0b@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROGELIO MACIAS-ORDONEZ)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: treadmill?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:31:20 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan25.004320.4339@vax.cns.muskingum.edu>, jbuddenberg@vax.cns.mu
skingum.edu writes:
>
>What are the disadvantages of running on a treadmill instead of the roadwork?
>Is it bad on the knees or what?  I don't think it would hurt for LOW mileage
>but what about mileage of say 30-40+ miles per week?
>Thanks
>
>--
>Jimmy Buddenberg       INTERNET:  jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
>Muskingum College
>
I had never used a treadmill before I came to the US to study because where I
used to live (center and south-east Mexico) weather was good for running all
year, and I never had any problem with my knees.
My first winter here I decided to use it instead of challenging the elements
and I got a first-class ITB that I haven't got ride off.
ITB is associated with changes or increase in your training habits so if you
are going to use it be carefull, my mistake was not to stop as soon as I got
the first pain and of course when I could hardly walk I found all about ITB,
of course it was to late.
I am not saying treadmills are going to give you an ITB but you certainly
run different and if you are not used to it you can easily #*@%! your knees or
something else.

Good luck
                                              _
     (   |   )             Rogelio Macias Ordonez
      \-o^o-/      Behavioral and Evolutionary Biosciences
   /---(___)---\           Chandler-Ullman Hall 17
    _/ /\ /\ \_               Lehigh University
   <  |  V  |  >           Bethlehem, PA 18015  USA
      | /^\ |                Tel (215) 758-5561
       \| |/                 Fax (215) 974-6467
         V                Internet  rm0b@Lehigh.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: aa658@Freenet.carleton.ca (Bill Wendt)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:36:19 GMT


Alice Poirier asks about the distinction between running and 
jogging.  I think I read once (was it G. Sheehan?) that 
the difference between jogging and running is an entry form.
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush )
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy
Date: 23 Jan 93 11:53:25 PST

In article <1993Jan23.113610.24741@kth.se> TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE writes:
[a bunch of stuff by several people on why Kenyans run fast deleted]
>
> I believe in the "tradition".. for example, in Finland there's a tradition
>to be best at Javelin, and it gets most attention, most athletes and so on.
>As it is tradition in Kenya to run long distances, as it is tradition in
>the US for blacks to train sprint. Swedish tradition is hockey. Norway has
>nordic skiing. These are just examples, I know some nations are best at more
>than sport..
> I think blaming the fact that some nation is outstanding in some event on
>genetics is to stick your head into the ground..

I would disagree here, in emphasis at least.
Read the article in RW a few months back titled
"white men can't run."  It gives a biomechanical basis for the different
performances of (1)white (2)west african blacks and (3)east/north
african blacks.  The facts presented in that article are somewhat
scientific and one can conclude from them that there definitely is a
biomechanical (and, thus, genetic) difference between these three people
groups athletically.  The point that is still not settled AT ALL is the
EXTENT that this affects performance.  Maybe it only makes a small
difference compared to culture, national emphasis, oportunity, etc. and
maybe not.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:31:53 GMT

One of the news magazines People-in-the-news columns did say Clinton
was advised to to wear too flashy or revealing (skin, contours) 
exercise clothes because it was un-Presidental.
From: wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: running shoe prices (was: shoes)
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:14:27 GMT
Reply-To: wolf@first.gmd.de
Distribution: rec
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin


When I read the last post with a list of shoe types together with their
prices I was utterly surprised about the extremly low prices of nearly all 
manufacturers (at least all I was able to compare).
If I compare the prices with those here in Germany, we generally pay 50 % 
more for the same model. 
Eg., randomly chosen from the list: 
the Adidas Torsion Integral at US $100 , versus 220 DM (~$137) in Germany,
Adidas Eq. Support $110, versus 250,- ($176) 
Asics Gel Exult $100 versus 250,- ($176)
Avia 2080  $105 versus 250,- ($176)
The same picture for all other models

Where does this difference come from ? Is it only policy of the manufacturers ?
Or, are the numbers mentioned in the post not the prices for end users 
(excluding some kind of tax)? 
I would appreciate to see postings (or emails) from other countries about
the prices there too.






--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: javier@cs.toronto.edu (Javier Pinto)
Subject: Re: PETERBOROUGH POLAR-BEAR
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:33:36 GMT

bill.wendt@synapse.org (Bill Wendt)  writes:

>-> I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the date for this
>-> year's Polar Bear 1/2 Marathon held in Peterborough, ON, Canada.
>->
>-> Like the Date:, Time: , where an entry-form is available:
>Just this: February 28, 1:00 p.m., race director Molly Cartmell
>                                                                                                                        
This sounds really interesting. 
If anybody has more info (like a phone number) please post.

Javier.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:56:32 GMT

In article <7664@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> poirier@hri.com (Alice Poirier) writes:
>Even as a long time runner, I have never been clear as to the difference
>between running and jogging.   
>
>Referencing a book on Nutrition, (Food and Fitness by Jan Nix and Linda Carlsen)
>I came accross a chart adapted from information from the American Heart
>Association which outlined caloric expenditure as a function of activity.  The
>chart listed:
>
>	Running (5-1/2 mph)		600 calories
>	Jogging (5-1/2 mph)		740 calories
>
>There was no explaination as to the distinctions made between running and
>jogging...  Anyone have some?
>

Well, I don't know how they got those different figures, but in my opinion,
5-1/2 mph in any case IS jogging.  Geez, that's 11 minute miles!

Bill



Newsgroups: rec.running
From: george@windslc.seri.gov (George Scott)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Reply-To: george@windslc.nrel.gov
Organization: Colorado State Reformatory for Young Hussies and Trollops
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:32:46 GMT

poirier@hri.com (Alice Poirier) writes:
>Even as a long time runner, I have never been clear as to the difference
>between running and jogging.   
>I came accross a chart adapted from information from the American Heart
>Association which outlined caloric expenditure as a function of activity. 

>	Running (5-1/2 mph)		600 calories
>	Jogging (5-1/2 mph)		740 calories

>There was no explaination as to the distinctions made between running and
>jogging...  Anyone have some?

Obviously, a jogger is just a runner with a very inefficient style that burns
up an additional 140 calories/hour.

Actually, I detest the term 'jogger', especially when people apply it to me.
I've never seen a rigorous definition of the difference, so I made up my own:
A runner runs because he or she enjoys running.
A jogger runs because he or she feels that they have to run ("I hate running,
but it's supposed to be good for me."). Joggers (by this definition) give 
running a bad name.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George N. Scott                         EMAIL: george@nrel.gov
Wind Research Program (formerly SERI)   VOICE: 303-231-7667
National Renewable Energy Laboratory    1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO  80401-3393
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:18:51 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu

	I am (or at least was!) a US distance runner.  I've also lived
in Kenya about 5 out of the last 15 years, during which time I competed
regularly in road races, on the track, and in cross country.  Some 
observations based on this experience:

	(1) The differences cannot be primarily genetic since Kenyans
from many different tribes have excelled internationally.  Richard Chelimo
is no more closely related to Paul Ereng or Yobes Ondieki than he is 
to most American blacks.

	(2) Kenyans train exceptionally hard, in terms of both mileage
and intensity.  They seem to be able to train above the level at which 
most Americans would get hurt.

	(3) Top-notch Kenyans are frequently training together and 
racing each other.  The best runners gravitate towards the Armed 
Forces, where they are stationed together and can thus train together.
Richard Chelimo lost more races than he won during the Kenyan cross
country season last year.

	(4) Running has become to young Kenyans what basketball is to
inner-city Americans.  A large number of kids dream of becoming great
runners; that is the only way for many of them ever to make more than
$2000 per year.  

	So what can be done to improve the pitiful state of US distance
running?  Some ideas:

	Thinking about (2) above: Kenyan kids spend virtually all of 
their childhood barefoot.  Is this the reason that Kenyan runners have
virtually no problems with over-pronation, and why they can train so
hard without getting hurt?  Should we encourage young kids to run
-- particularly to spring -- barefoot to develop stronger and more
flexible feet?

	As for (3): In order to be the best in the world it is necessary
to train with and frequently compete against the almost-best in the
world.  What distance talent we have is spread much too thin in this
country.  I would encourage any 22-yr old American who wants to compete
at this level to go live in Kenya for a couple of years.  The Armed 
Forces team is delighted to have others join them in training.

	Finally, Americans have to think higher.  Todd Williams is a fine
runner, but he seemed satisfied to make the final and come in 10th 
at the Olympics (he only came in 10th because Kenya couldn't send the
next 20 runners who would have beaten him), as he was looking ahead to 
the future.  He seemed to forget that Chelimo and Kiptanui are 2 years
younger than he is!

	Sorry for the length of this post.

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jcs@syzygy.hr.att.com (John C. Schwebel)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:03:10 GMT

|> Joggers overdress.  Runners wear as little as possible.
So, Ron Dawes, who used to wear sweats in warm weather to prepare
for hot weather races, was really a jogger? Great logic!

|> Joggers are meek & demure.  Runners are crashing all the time, competitive,
|> and thrill seeking.
|> Runners are active, sexy, type-A, athletic, coordinated, and full of
|> excuses!  ....
It takes a lot of coordination  to put one leg before the other one.

So what about those of who neither meek and demure or sexy type-A?
Now you need to invent a new stereotype: the jogger-runner.
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Date: 24 Jan 93 11:18:34 GMT
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden

In article <1993Jan23.115326.3250@mic.ucla.edu>, rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush ) writes:

>I would disagree here, in emphasis at least.
>Read the article in RW a few months back titled
>"white men can't run."  It gives a biomechanical basis for the different
>performances of (1)white (2)west african blacks and (3)east/north
>african blacks.  The facts presented in that article are somewhat
>scientific and one can conclude from them that there definitely is a
>biomechanical (and, thus, genetic) difference between these three people
>groups athletically.  The point that is still not settled AT ALL is the
>EXTENT that this affects performance.  Maybe it only makes a small
>difference compared to culture, national emphasis, oportunity, etc. and
>maybe not.

 yeah, well, is Sebastian Coe black or white? Khalid Skah? Dieter Bauhman?
Pietro Minnea? I just mean, where do you draw the line? 5 generations back
directly from Afrika and then no outter mix at all? I can agree with the
genetics so far that people with generations back living up in the mountains
will be adapted to it, and probably have an easier time picking up the
oxygen, and if it happens to be Afrikans.. pure coincident.. so in a sense
I guess I agree with that article, and we're splitting hair...
 It would like saying Norwegians are genetically benefitted to perform well
in Nordic Skiing..
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Advice For Beginners
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:56:57 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
NNTP-Posting-Host: athens.eng.umd.edu

In article <CC.93Jan22125914@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>
>How should I, an unfit fat couch potato, start running safely and enjoyably,
>without putting myself off running for life?

Beginners should be most concerned with reducing risk of injury, since the
most likely time a person will become injured in a sport is when they are
new to a sport.

The secret is to stop at the onset of pain. In other words, never say to
yourself, "today I'm going to run one mile," or today I'm going to run
for 30 minutes."

Instead, listen to your body. If you feel pain after the first minute,
then you stop after the first minute. Otherwise, you can keep going
for as long as you like.

If you stop exercising at the onset of pain, then you will be smarter
than the vast majority of runners who try to exercise through pain,
and go on to injure themselves.

>For example - what sort of warm-up exercises should a beginner do
>before/after going for a run?

Walk.

>What distance should I run (about 50 yards
>seems to be my current limit :-) ), and how often?

Run no more than every other day. Again, forget about distance, and
just listen to your body. i.e., stop at the onset of pain.

>Just what makes shoes
>good for running in, and how much should I be prepared to pay?

Any of the brand names are good. Expect to pay about $100. Get good
running shoes because they do have features that are not present in
cheap sneakers.
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: World Cross Country Fans!?!
From: cmahler@gacvx1.gac.edu
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:18:03 -0600
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, Minnesota
Nntp-Posting-User: cmahler

World Cross Country Fans!?!

Are there any World Cross Country fans out there?  I've been eagerly following
results from the Challenge Cup races across Europe in Running Stats, a US
newsletter that covers the sport -- and distance racing in general -- pretty
well.  I'd love to get
some conversation going about what's happening as the World Championships in
Spain near.  I'd be especially interested to hear from European netters who
might be privy to more of the rumors and inside information than we on this
side of the pond.  
Getting results more quickly would be great too.

To whet some appetites on the subject, here's what is happening on the circuit
from my point of view:  As of January 17, Ismael Kirui leads a tight pack in
the World Cross standings.  It seems the big guns are mainly lying in the weeds
and/or avoiding one
another for now.  Fita Bayesa and Simon Chemwoyo have each won a pair of races
while Khalid Skah and Ezequiel Canario have notched one each, never have the
any of the four raced one another on the circuit.  Richard Chelimo and William
Mutwol have
performed unimpressively in the few races they have contested.  Moses Kiptanui
has raced but threatens more with his potential than his overland
accomplishments.  John Ngugi is apparently still nursing an injury and has not
yet raced. Dominick Kirui,
Osoro Ondoro, and James Kariuki, on the other hand, have raced often and
successfully.  

If you know more, use some bandwidth.  If you want to know more, do the same.


Tired, Muddy, and Happy . . .

Charlie Mahler
Gustavus Adolphus College
St. Peter, Minnesota  USA

cmahler@gacvx1.gac.edu
From: lawrence@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (peter r lawrence    )
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: treadmill?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 02:24:30 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
NNTP-Posting-Host: studsys.mscs.mu.edu

In article <1993Jan25.004320.4339@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes:
>
>What are the disadvantages of running on a treadmill instead of the roadwork?
>Is it bad on the knees or what?  I don't think it would hurt for LOW mileage 
>but what about mileage of say 30-40+ miles per week?
>Thanks
>
>-- 
>Jimmy Buddenberg       INTERNET:  jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
>Muskingum College 
>

I don't know about physically, but I could never imagine tormenting
myself with running in the same place, staring at the same wall for
more than 10 minutes a year.  Muchless 40 miles a week all winter long.
I don't know about you, but most of what I love about running comes
the running itself:  enjoying the scenery, exploring new areas, finding
new trails, and greeting other runners along the way (I only say runners
because often on those frigid days, the people I see are runners and
mailmen).   Running indoors on a treadmill would kill me!!  
	Just my opinion,
		-pete