HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: "Better Than Milk?" question.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:58:45 GMT

11jsutton@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:

>I recently bought a wonderful soy-based beverage called "Better Than Milk?".
>It is available both in litre cartons as a ready-to-drink beverage and in
>1lb, 5oz canisters as a dehydrated powder.  "Better Than Milk?" tastes VERY
>good - very rich and creamy.

>What I'd like to know is:  Is this product vegan?  Does anyone know?  (The
>ingredient list says "maltodextrin, soy oil, calcium carbonate, dehydrated
>tofu, sodium caseinate, sea salt, natural flavor, cyanocobalamin (vitamin
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>B12)", but this list doesn't say much about if it's vegan or not!)


"Calcium caseinate" or "casein" is a milk derived protein used
in many soy cheeses because it enables the soy cheese to melt like regular
cheese.  It also helps to give the soy cheese a texture like regular
cheese.   Of course, one unimaginative way to ensure that a soy
cheese melts like regular cheese is to use the same key ingredients
of regular cheese.  :-(    There are, however, a few soy cheeses that
are completely vegan, but to-date they are less similar to regular
cheese in texture and don't melt quite the same.  A minor nuisance.

Now, you listed something called "sodium caseinate" which I've not
heard of before.  It also maybe be milk derived, but I'm not
certain.  Unless someone here can definitively clarify this for
you here, you might consider simply writing or phoning (if the
company has local representatives) the company for clarification
on this point.  I don't know why they would use sodium caseinate
for a soy milk as the one's I've seen don't have this ingredient,
yet they taste very good.
.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.

				Happy Holday Season,

					ted
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Date: 25 Dec 92 08:29:33 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi

In article <1hd4khINNpn0@morrow.stanford.edu> andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
>Similarly I don't quite see the fascination with fake fur.  Do you really
>want to fool people into thinking you would wear fur?  I think fur is
>beautiful 

I would think that fur is beautiful so long as it remains on the
animals in nature. The animals can't live without the fur, YOU CAN.

Fur does not look good on human beings.

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:40:24 GMT

Lee Crocker writes:
[...]
>Nor does it take into account those like me, who _are_ vegetarians
>for health/environmental reasons but are openly contemptuous of the
>moralistic dogma that clouds discussion in this group.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is it not characteristic of "moralistic dogma", as you call it, 
to moralistically dismiss the ethical arguments of others rather
than provide a discursivreply?  Lee, I ask this question in
all sincerity since I think we should ALL be careful of not
falling into the very thing that we might rightly condemn.

For instance, I've posted a number of carefully argued
messages pertaining to the ethical arguments that would entail a 
vegetarian practice, but you have not provided a single discursive reply
to any of them?  Why is that?  I ask because your blanket statement
above would seemingly include my postings among those which you
might have some objection towards.  That is why, for the sake of
fairness and even-handedness, it is maybe best to address particular
examples, or at least back up a general negative claim with
some specific examples.  Yes, it takes more work to do this,
but is that not the very least we should ask of ourselves
before we make what can be harsh and unkind blanket condemnations?


> As you say,
>an argument should stand on its merits, and frankly, the arguments
>put forth by non-vegetarians in this group tend to have a lot more
>objective scientific support than all the religious justifications
>of Abhay and his type. 

Who do you include as "his type"?  Myself?  Now, I've posted
a lot of information from PRIMARY scientific journals that
I have at least bothered to read for myself.  Abhay is entitled to 
find his own reasons, whatever they may be.

Now, from what I've read, Abhay has NOT resorted
to some "ex catherdra" pronouncements from religious texts.
This seems to be a false charge on your part.
Indeed, in his latest postings, Abhay makes reference to
Gill's (PhD) very fine and even-handed review of the scientfic
literature pertaining to vegetarianism.  Can you help us out
and at least cite some passages that would back up your charge?

If not, then maybe you would agree that the fair-minded
and right thing to do is to simply refrain from personal
or invideous condemnations, and instead try to make for a more
postive posting. 


> I still believe vegetarianism is scientifically
>justifiable, but there are few in this group who put up valid
>arguments of this kind.  Let's keep discussion open.

I agree, let's keep it open.  Also, if I may add another
desideratum, let's keep it "open-minded", discursive
and FRIENDLY.   What do you think?

					Respectfully,
						ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:40:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.182045.24659@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>Many people, like Lee, dislike r.f.v. being used as a forum by those
>who grandstand their political and moral views in front of an unwilling
>audience, especially since there exists several separate newsgroups for
>these specific topics:  animal rights, ethics, religion, etc.
>
Please let's not start this thread again.

>Also, your argument that Lee fails to counter specific assertions in
>your own posts is without merit. When you post articles in excess of
>100 lines of text on a daily basis, nobody but yourself and Abhay is
>going to take the time to read them.

I read them.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Lecithin
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:15:42 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec28.135124.11614@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>I find from the Animal free shopper of the Vegan Society that 
>Lecithin is a fatty substance found in nerve tissues, egg yolk,
>blood and other tissues. Mainly obtained commercially from
>soyabeans, peanuts and corn.
>
>Will someone (Shankar Bhattacharya or anyone else) tell us about how
>it is made ?

Well, what do you mean?  The biochemistry?  Most commercial lecithin in the
US comes from soybeans.  It's a choline-containing phospholipid which is
useful for keeping fats emulsified in commercially prepared foods.  Its
role in human nutrition is minor, if that.  It can be considered a source
of choline, a similarly minor-league nutrient.  There is no evidence that
lecithin plays any role in developing or maintaining a beneficial blood
lipid profile, even though its action as an emulsifier tends to give the
more imaginative would-be nutritionists images of lecithin keeping fats
emulsified in your bloodstream.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Lecithin
Date: 28 Dec 92 13:51:24 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University




I have asked earlier about sources of Lecithin, an additive which is
extremely common here in margarine, biscuits, bread and a variety of
other consumer products. In most parts of Europe, it is referred to
as emulsifier E322.

I find from the Animal free shopper of the Vegan Society that 
Lecithin is a fatty substance found in nerve tissues, egg yolk,
blood and other tissues. Mainly obtained commercially from
soyabeans, peanuts and corn.

Will someone (Shankar Bhattacharya or anyone else) tell us about how
it is made ?

With regards,

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Organically grown foods (was Re: What's the Best Juicer)
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 00:16:00 GMT

In article <altar.724890599@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...]

>  Estimates of major emission into the atmosphere due to agriculture:
>
>		  million tonnes/year	   % of anthropogentic
>					     emmissions
>carbon dioxide		1200			17
>methane		 230			66
>nitrous oxide		   2			71
>ammonia		  28			80
>sulphur oxides		   2			 2
>nitric oxides		   5			 7
>particulate matter	  20			35
>
>(emissions include contributions from burning of biomass directly
>related to agriculture, paddy rice, livestock rearing and use
>of fertilizers.  From Mostafa Tolba SAVING OUR PLANET, 1992)

[...]

	There is a key piece of information missing from this data: what
	percentage of TOTAL emission (agricultural AND natural) do these
	figures represent?  A quote from THE TUFTS DIET AND NUTRITION
	LETTER provides an example of why this is important:

	   "Rice paddies and TERMITES alone produce almost twice as much
	   methane as cattle." [...emphasis added...]

	And how much methane do non-domestic ruminants produce?  I'm not
	trying to trivialize these figures and I've used methane as only
	a single example, but I do think it would be wise to put these
	numbers in the proper context before we use them as a basis for
	decision.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: koosman@martha.utcc.utk.edu (Toby Koosman)
Subject: Re: Terminology Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:17:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.230912.17919@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr) writes:
>The term that I've come up with is : sans rouge (french for 'without
>red')
For the benefit of the Francophobe, could you describe how this would be
prounounced?  (At least tell me which consonants to ignore!)


-- 
Toby Koosman                                Internet: koosman@utkux1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee                     Bitnet: takoosma@utkvx             
Knoxville, TN  USA       
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: das@emmapeel.ca.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Subject: Comfort foods for colds
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:29:00 GMT

Happy New Year, everyone.  I'm celebrating by having a whopping cold.
So, does anyone have a good vegetarian equivalent for Mom's chicken
soup?  Also, what do y'all like to eat when you're feeling rotten?

Will type in the recipe for the awesome stuffed squash I made for
Christmas dinner when I'm feeling better.
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:59:47 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <18895@mindlink.bc.ca> Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb) writes:
>
>It turns out that the culprit was George Clarke... Sorry, George, but quit
>with the "alt.shit" stuff... any issue that a vegetarian wants to bring up
>should be ok to discuss here.
>

I am for a generally liberal interpretation of what subject matter is
OK to post where, but I wonder a bit about this criterion ("any issue
that a vegetarian wants to bring up"). 

Suppose vegetarians started posting their resumes here, or trying to
get readers to join Amway, or asking for recommendations for local
realtors? If there *are* subjects that are irrelevent to this newsgroup,
they don't become relevent just because a vegetarian somewhere is
interested in them.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: comments and questions
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:22:48 GMT


Jill A. Johnson writes:

>Second, I would appreciate if people could either let me know where to
>find some good recipies that have no milk or cheese in them, or if you have
>some good ones online please email them to me.



    GETTING FILES OF GREAT VEGETARIAN RECIPES FROM GRANOLA

There is databank of many recipes from something call GRANOLA.
To get these recipes simply use your regular e-mail mailer and
send to: LISTSERV@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU the following command:


    GET VEGAN RECIPES1 GRANOLA
Do not add anything else in the message as a computer, not a
person will respond to your request.  In effect, the above is a
computer command to send to your address a file of vegan recipes.
There are about 9 such files of recipes, andyou can simply
request at one time more than one file by simply tying a series
of requests in same message.  For example:

    GET VEGAN RECIPES1 GRANOLA
    GET VEGAN RECIPES2 GRANOLA
    GET VEGAN RECIPES3 GRANOLA
    GET VEGAN RECIPES4 GRANOLA
    GET VEGAN RECIPES5 GRANOLA
    GET VEGAN RECIPES6 GRANOLA

Six separate files of recipes will then be sent to you via e-
mail.

WARNING: Each of these files has a lot of recipes, so unless you
have a lot of diskspace available and an readiness to work though
hundreds of recipes, it is probably best to simply download just
one of these large file at time.


There are lacto and lacto-ovo recipes as well, in which case you
then send the following command:

    GET LACTO RECIPES1 GRANOLA
    GET LACTO RECIPES2 GRANOLA
    GET OVOLACTO RECIPES1 GRANOLA
    GET OVOLACTO RECIPES2 GRANOLA

In addition, there are some generic mixed recipes under
the GRANOLA heading.  For example, one then types:

    GET GRANOLA RECIPES1 GRANOLA
    GET GRANOLA RECIPES2 GRANOLA

There is also the informative Granola FAQ.  To get a copy
simply type:

    GET GRANOLA FAQL GRANOLA


                            Happy Vegetarian Epulation,
                                        ted

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: How to Stuff a Pepper?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:39:21 GMT


	Apparently, there are about 1000-plus varieties of the Capsicum
genus, which is part of the Nightshade family.  That's a lot of
peppers!  My experience has been severely restricted to only the
common red or green bell peppers.  But even here there is a lot
of choice.  What to stuff them with?  Should it be a salad, a
sauce, a casserole or some plain cooked rice and cook beans?
Lots of choices indeed.  Even if we just choose to use rice, much
yet remains as to how to do this.

	In any case, the following poem about stuffing peppers is 
maybe not too helpful in technical sense, but it does serve to 
help open our eyes and wonder at this marvellous capsium  :-)

                                    Holiday Cheers,
                                               ted


The following whimsical poem by Nancy Willard is from her book of
poems, CARPENTER OF THE SUN, 1974, Liveright Pub. Co.

        HOW TO STUFF A PEPPER
    
        Now, said the cook, I will teach you
        how to stuff a pepper with rice.
        
        Take your pepper green, and gently,
        for peppers are shy.  No matter which side
        you approach, it's always the backside.
        Perched on green buttocks, the pepper sleeps
        in its silk tights, it dreams
        of sommersaults and parsley,
        of the days when the sexes were one.
        
        Slash open the sleeve
        as if you were cutting a paper lantern,
        and enter a moon, spilled like a melon,
        a fever of pearls,
        a conversation of glaciers.
        It is a temple built to the worship
        of morning light.
        
        I have sat under the great globe
        of seeds on the roof of that chamber,
        too dazzled to gather the taste I came for.
        I have taken the pepper in hand,
        smooth and blind, a runt in the rich
        evolution of roses and ferns.
        You say I have not yet taught you
        
        to stuff a pepper?
        Cooking takes time.
        
        New time we'll consider the rice.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: complete list of plant foods!
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:17:20 GMT

THis is a joke, right?  To do it would take a large-sized book,
possibly several volumes.  For just beans grown for consumption in
North America there are several hundred varieties.  Check out any food
dictionary or specialized food volumes (fruits, beans, vegetables,
etc) and look at the thousands of listings.  Even in edible seaweed (a
category with which I have limited familiarity - though I do love the
stuff) I wouldn't be surprised to find over 40 or 50 kinds (possibly a
great many more).  A joke, yes?

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Veggie Cats
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:17:04 GMT

In regards to "veggie cats" I know a cat who eats nothing but plants
and *LAUGHS* at the those foolish neibhood mates who call him
"wimpy etc".  He is very large, athletic.  Bigger, stronger, and
faster then the other "cats".  This cat never considered being fat,
lethargic, or heart diseased as "masculine".

*chuckle*

Meow!
Steve R
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: VEGAN:  long haired gourmet goes nuts for NYE
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 04:28:27 GMT

Wow... that stuff looks good.  Is it O/L or vegan (hopefully!)???

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Strange Squeamishness
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:58:30 GMT

Greetings!!

(my first posting in a new group... hope you like it) :)

I have been an ovo-lacto for about 3 years now.  Vancouver is generally very
accepting of the vegetarian lifestyle (ie. most restaurants offer more than
one dish for vegans and vegetarians... :)

I had an interesting experience recently in one of my college classes... I am
a library tech. student.  We were discussing bookbinding... particularly the
animal hides used as book covers.  My whole class was listening as the
professor went into great detail about the process of hiding and tanning,
quite a disgusting thing to have to listen to for 2 hours, I assure you!
Anyhow, he got to a piece of trivia in which there was a criminal whose skin
had been used to bind the book of his trial proceedings (18th century or
something).  Suddenly, the class became upset and irate!!  No problem with
the pigs or cows, but for people...!!!

It just seems strange that my classmates found me strange for eating lentil
loaf -- and there they are with this strange set of rules... makes sense??

*j*

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: India's Diet
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:49:03 GMT

I have never been to India (yet), but I have eaten much Indian Vegan fare.
Im also a bit of a bibliphile on vegetariansm and am a bit into Indian
Culture. 

The criticisms of the Indian diet, attitude towards food, culture etc in
the original post have some truth in it I cant take them seriously since
they could be true for any country.

My personnal opinion is that  aside from the use of dairy products and
the mild dependance on oil the Indian diet is the most evolved vegetarian
ethnic cuisine around.

Knowing what I do about the environmental, health, & economic faults of
American eating habits I would be tickled pink if most Americans ate
a diet such as India's

Steve Russell
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Terminology Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:07:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.171731.18694@utkux1.utk.edu> koosman@martha.utcc.utk.edu (Toby Koosman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.230912.17919@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> awkerr@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Alan Kerr) writes:
>>The term that I've come up with is : sans rouge (french for 'without
>>red')
>For the benefit of the Francophobe, could you describe how this would be
>prounounced?  (At least tell me which consonants to ignore!)
>
Sort of like "saw roozh" where "zh" is the sound made by "s" in "pleasure".
(The "aw" should be nasalized, but the "n" is not pronounced.)

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that one of the possible names being
considered for vegans was "beaux mangeurs"!
From: mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Mark Bevan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Vegetarianism or fanaticism
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 02:16:48 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

I can really appreciate someone taking care of their body and wanting 
to eat healthy eg. vegetarian. I can see the advantages of eating 
organically grown produce. I can see the medicinal purposes of herbs

I don't agree with the medical industry that wants to slice and dice 
each new victim who enters its system ( sometimes it is warranted )

I find no delight in the pharmaceutical industry that pumps the people
of the world with any combination of chemicals they can produce.

The destruction of the earth's atomosphere should have been stop years
ago.

I can feel for the dog or cat which was just run over by a speeding 
motorist.

I was sadden by my visit to a kill floor in a slaughter house.
(They could have probably handled it a little more professionally).

I'm not in favour of trophy hunting and or English fox hunts.

What make SOME vegetarian go off on Pseudo-religious tangents looking
for gurus who can reveal the scriptures in a light never seen before
(possibly not even by God). Is it the desire to attract attention.

Why do some insist if you cook your carrots wrong you will be 
reincarnated as one?
Maybe they need a reason to eat healthly, like a law " Don't eat white
rice or it's 3 years of wild rice farming".

Every hear of the story of the emperor clothes? Maybe they think
they have to prove they are right, so they have to come up with
stories and dogma, instead of letting their healthly appearance
stand as a witness to world.

I personally hate fanatics who don't have a balance, double for 
religious idiots who read anything they want into something they
no nothing about, triple for religious idiots with degrees who quote
obscure chucks of scripture then "interpret" them to say something they
don't.


Mark Bevan              mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg