HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:23:42 GMT

In article <peters.716090153@physics.ubc.ca> peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:
>>		GURPS - Get real. Want to play a generic system which 
>>	requires you to buy an infinite supply of supplements? I like 
>>	my games specific.
>
>Sure, there are advantages to a "specific" system (like less thought required
>for the GM to set up a campaign). But think about the huge variety of science-
>fictional universes out there - if you find a cool sf novel that inspires ideas
>for role-playing in your mind, or if (perish the thought) you think of a neat
>idea *yourself*, the only published piece of rpg material around that will give
>you any help setting up the campaign that *you* want to run is GURPS/Space. (At
>least, the only one I know of.) Just an example of the beauty of GURPS.

Flamers Down!  This is a comment, not a flame.

One of a skills that demonstrates a good GM is the ability to see the systems
behind the game, to understand them, and to use them in a sensible way.  There
are several types of RPGs out there, when you get down to it:

1)  Multi-genre (so-called generic) games.
2)  Single-genre specific games.
3)  Single-genre non-specific games.

Examples:

1)  The rules were designs to encompass as many possible genres as possible.
Examples are GURPS and the Hero System.  Some work (I've never played GURPS,
so no comment there), and some don't (Hero System).  The Hero System was 
originally intended to be a superhero game, and so its systems are designed
for that (and I like Champions a LOT), but they don't work in the "generic"
role.

2)  Though none really come to mind, these are games that have been designed
for one purpose, and one purpose only, and to try to convert characters from
that particular genre to another will be at least a HARD task.

3)  These are games that were written for a specific genre, but their systems
are really, in all actuality, adaptable to other settings.  For example, would
it really be THAT hard to play a Fantasy campaign with, say, Star Frontiers
rules?

In short, the style of the game is ultimately controlled by the GM.  For a
while, I spent some of my spare time, "converting" 1st edition Twilight: 2k
rules to a Cyberpunk setting (I preferred the Twilight skill system and
combat rules to RTG's Cyberpunk 1st ed.).  I also worked on a far future 
setting for the same combat system.  In most cases, changing the genre is
a rather lengthy, but not difficult, process of creating new equipment for
the genre, and possibly adding a skill or two here, and taking some others
away.

The trick to life in RPGs is to find a SYSTEM you like, and then create your
own background, equipment, and so on to fit your tastes.  If you can find a
game that has both at the same time, then you're very well off.  Remember the
golden rule:  "The rules contained within are only suggestions, and you, GM
may alter or ignore any rules you wish."

...Paul


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: kjt001@dunix.drake.edu (Kevin Tieskoetter)
Subject: Re: Twilight:  2000  1st ed. vs. 2nd ed.
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:26:52 GMT

I have the second edition twilight:2000, and I used to play the first
one.  The main thing about it is the character generation is much
better, and that the combats are much easier, but still realistic.

When creating a character, you design a life path for him, and you can
have a character that was a gung-ho militarist (joined the military
right out of high school and was in it 20 years before the start of the
game), a scientific engineer that was drafted into the war, or even a
juvinile delinquent that was drafted instead of being put into jail.

I think the 2nd edition is a wonderful improvement.

-kevin

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: RPG fiction as crud
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: RPG fiction, drivel
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 23:11:01 GMT


Just to start a little more discussion, what about FANfiction, such as
that in Rec.games.frp.archives.  How much of IT would you say is crud?

---Chris Meadows

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: r.g.frp.* and sci fi games
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 23:19:21 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <12SEP199215541729@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>I have heard several people say several things and I thought
>I would try to put it all together in a single post.  Note
>this is not intended as flaming material, but as an observation.
>
>This is r.g.frp.misc.  In the hierarchy r.g.frp.* is for 
>fantasy role playing games.  Sci fi games are not fantasy
>games.  Therefore, officially they do not belong here.

1) The 'fantasy' in frp is meant in the sense of immagination.

2) I dare you to define a clear dividing line between SF and Fantasy.
This particular passtime is a favorite of the rec.arts.sf.* groups.
(7 years and *still* no acceptable boundary.)

>Now someone mentioned that there is a group r.g.rpg, but I
>haven't noticed it.  Is this true?  Seems that is where
>sci fi games should go.  But if this is true, then the
>hierarchy should be r.g.rpg.fantasy.* and r.g.rpg.sf.*.

rec.games.rpg is a bogus group.  It has always been a bogus group.

>Then you could have r.g.rpg.sf.board.  Sounds like Battletech
>and Warhammer 40K to me.

Gee.  Where does rec.games.board fit into this scheme, them?

>Tammy 
>lib1p@jetson.uh.edu

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mavra@cpac.washington.edu (Peter D. Adkison)
Subject: Re: Covers
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:43:47 GMT

In article <15091@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:

> How important are covers?  Will you ignore a game with a plain cover,
> and buy a game without checking what's between the covers as long as
> that cover is fancy?

If there's any way at all you can afford it, pay the extra price and
get a nice color cover.  It makes the entire product look more
professional, higher quality, and more permanent.

Some gamers don't care, and some do.  But what about the distributors
and the retailers?  Most of them had much rather carry a nicer looking
more expensive product.  More expensive because they make more money
per unit, and nicer looking because it looks better on their shelves.
Imagine yourself a retailer trying to decide what new product you want
to put in the showcase out in the front of your store: are you going
to pick Vampire or something that looks like an old Judges Guild
reject?  If the distributors and retailers don't push your product,
the gamers will never have a chance to see it.

Of course I'm not one to talk.  I'm not happy with any of the covers
we've done.  The cover for Primal Order looks like two gods at the
galactic beah, with some planet as a beachball, you can't read the
lettering on the back of the Talislanta Guidebook cover, and Talislanta
Geographica doesn't tell you anything about what's inside the product.
When I first saw Scent of the Beast I thought for quite awhile that it
was pretty good, until some gamer pointed out to me that the hilt on
the Beastman's dagger was on backwords.  Sigh.  Eventually we'll get
it right.  :-)

Btw, who are you using for printing?  McNaughton & Gunn is the
cheapest we've found, while still providing the quality and customer
support we need.  E-mail me if you need the address.

				--Mavra!
				  Peter D. Adkison
				  Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
				  mavra@wizards.com

The above internet address should be used for e-mail if it is
different from the e-mail address in the header.
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Champions: Var SFX, Var Adv, and spreading EBs
Date: 12 Sep 92 15:36:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Chico

Robert A Gaines writes:
>Green Arrow shoots three trick arrows at three thugs simultaneously.
>How would something like this be simulated in Champions?  
>(1) This sounds like a spread energy blast, with Variable Special Effects. 
>(1a) Assuming that sounds legal to you, what about Varible Advantage?  
>(2) different attacks are bought with the Trigger advantage 

Hmmm, I don't think the Trigger advantage is intitutively conducive to
the special effect in question.  Spreading is fine, and this method allows
the VSE to have some use (most of the time it's fairly useless except to
switch between PD and ED.)  I am leery of Variable Advantage in the first
place, and seeing three attacks go off is not helping. =)

Another solution if you want to play a "powered normals" game is to allow
Sweeping with a gun.  The old Danger Int. rules had a provision for shooting
twice that is pretty close to being the forerunner to the sweep rule in hth.
Unfortunately, the double fire rule has not been incorporated in the new 
version, but you can add it in.

I think that 'sweeping' while it requires some new work on your part, it
better suits the genre, is more intitutive a way of representing the effect
and is less prone to abuse than the variable advantage suggestion and VSFX
both.

-- 
Worst Vegetable of the Year:
	The brussels sprout.  This is also the worst vegetable of next
year.
		-- Steve Rubenstein
From: v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Benjamin R Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Suggestions
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:21:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep8.011609.18342@uwm.edu>, aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider) writes...
>v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Benjamin R Pierce) writes:
>: 
>: ..again, I suggest that you take a look at Battlelords of the 23rd Century.
>: Good, workable mechanics, lots of background material, psionics/magic equivalent
>: system, and a reasonable price.
>: 
>: 
>:                                                           --Ben
> 
>I think your opinion is a bit biased since you're one of the
>writers/editors, eh?	;-)
> 
> 
>Steve J. White		  |"Either there's something wrong with me,	  |
>aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu  | or there's something wrong with the universe."|
>skeptic@large@9600bps	  |	- Dr. Crusher on ST:TNG			  |




Touche'.:)  Then again, the reason I became one of the editors was because I
thought that the game had trememdous potential. It sure as Hades wasn't for the
vast sums of money I got paid (in the first year I was working with Larry, I
made about ten bucks.) I did what I did because I believed in the game (now,
if Larry turns up tomorrow and showers me with money, I won't exactly OBJECT,
mind you...:)



                                                            --Ben
From: logerius@psykoman.cs.hut.fi (of Angmar)
Subject: Re: Clay O'Rama
Keywords: dragon magazine, clay o'rama, clay, rama, playdough
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:03:41 GMT

In <1992Sep8.000200.21008@unixg.ubc.ca> educ@unixg.ubc.ca (Vicki Domansky) writes:



>Has anyone ever played Clay O'Rama?  It is a game published in the
>September 1987 issue of Dragon magazine, by Zeb Cook, I think.

 I read some issue after the one that had the rules,and would definately
love to get my hands on that one.


>recommend it.  All you need is a couple d6's and enough playdough for
>everyone.  Unfortunately I don't have the Sept '87 issue of
>Dragon with the rules, but I'm going to bug Fraser until he lends me
>his for the convention next year :-).

   PLEASE,if you get your hands on the full rules (or anyone else for that
 matter) could you post or mail them, as I have only vaguely read about this
 hilarious game and would love playing it.




Logerius
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: leifmk@Lise.Unit.NO (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y)
Subject: Re: Surprises
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 21:49:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.144118.25363@cs.yale.edu>, lower-tony@CS.YALE.EDU (Tony Lower) writes:
 > >>
 > >>    WHEN HAVE PLAYERS SURPRISED YOU?
 > >>
 > >Heh.  I've got two, and sadly, I think you were there for the first, Tony.
 > >
 >    [Horrendous silliness removed for the sanity of those reading]
 > 
 >

[Even more gruesome silliness surgically removed]

The most mind-numbingly stupid (and surprising) player action I have ever
witnessed was in a D&D game years ago.  The PCs were on a ship in the middle of 
a VERY large and deep ocean, and their wizard had just met his death during an
attack by flying monsters--can't remember what kind.  Anyway, the surviving PCs
simply dump the body unceremoniously overboard (some other players I've known
would've 'cured' the body and added it to their rations...)
	Anyway, about a minute later (the body floating a fairly short distance
away), one of the other players (a cleric) suddenly remembers that the wizard had
several very nice magic items on him.  

So he jumps in after the body.

While wearing plate mail.

*sigh*

Leif the .sigless
Any opinions may not necessarily exist.  They could simply be a figment of your
imagination.  And there is no reason to finish this sen
 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: GURPS: Paired Weapons?
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:48:37 GMT

Does anyone know any workable rules for Paired Weapons in GURPS, such as
a Samurai using a Katana and a Wakizashi? What happens when you use both
for an all-out attack?

If anyone could send me a copy of the Paired Weapons rules from any of
the Palladium games, that might give me an idea. I don't have enough
money to get a copy of a game for myself, and there aren't any games 
shops in this infernal city except Games Workshop, so I can't even look
at a copy.

Let's put it this way. I was going to introduce a Paired Weapons skill that
allows you to specify which weapons you were going to take, but then what
happens to those who lose one of the weapons? Oh, and I don't use pre-
requisite skills in my game, either, which precludes the Player from having
to pick two weapon skills before picking PW skill. Oh I'm not making any sense
but hopefully you'll understand what I mean.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
        	 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**			
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
     "It'll be a cold night tonight... If it's cold." - Iain Morales
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: viktor@mks.com (Viktor Haag)
Subject: Re: Matriarchal Societies...Fact or Fiction
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:47:06 GMT

In article <BuIyHB.2HL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>
>>How much do people take for granted as true without really
>>thinking about it, yet run in fear of anything that smacks of
>>matriarchal or matrilineal?
>
>Oh, I don't think anyone is running in fear of them. However, I 
>must point out that since most matriarchal societies were/are 
>based on agriculture and a cyclical view of the universe, the
>allowance for social and intellectual change was minimal. Yes,
>the modern society, descended from a patriarchal beginning, 
>still has some faults, but I think we all consider it better
>than rutting around in the dirt with sticks. If you want a
>more eloquent argument on the subject, check Sam Keene's
>"A fire in the belly".             

Oh, Yes!  I think we can all agree that the expansion of the city state
through armed agression, the perpetration of oppressive economic 
class based systems upon the uneducated majority, the 
inculcation of state-church partnerships remain obvious advantages
when faced with the horribly brutal life of the average _primitive_
society.  I mean after all, we civilised euro-caucasians can stand
proudly and declare our obviously greater intelligences, moral
fibre, and proximity to heaven ...

This not to mention the wonderful advances we have made in conservation
of natural resources, and husbandry of our own environment, et al.

I am not saying that you don't have a point, but I think you should 
realise the racist, patriarchal, eurocentric roots of your statement
about rutting around in the dirt with sticks.  Don't think that
merely because you have risen above the dirt in your gleamingly clean
condominium, you have somehow elevated your intellectual, moral
or philosophical status.  We have merely become different, not better.



-- 
Viktor Haag					viktor@mks.com
Mortice Kern Systems				(519) 884-2251
35 King North, Waterloo, Ontario		ext. 16
"we are not thugs. we are vitamin supplements to justice ..." | a selector
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:5113 rec.games.frp.advocacy:2114 rec.games.frp.dnd:3527
From: luit1@wsinfo11.info.win.tue.nl (Wim Jansen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Alignments
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:17:20 GMT
Reply-To: luit1@info.win.tue.nl
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc

I always considered alignments useless for *human* players. After all, the
person playing decides on moral issues and ethics. In my opinion this is
far more natural than to force some alignment (if at all possible).

For computer players it's different. Alignment can be considered a
parameter of the strategics involved. The possibilities should be enlarged
for that purpose, though.

There is still a role for alignment if it can be connected to a chosen or
expected way of live for a character. If eg. a character belongs to a
certain religion/cult/society, his/her deeds can be evaluated against the
standards/ethics of that group. This may have a direct effect on eg.
experience points, level advancement treshold, or even stats. Each
character must have a 'conviction' to make this work. No conviction would
have to modelled as 'Atheist' (or 'Chaotic' ?).

Wim.
-- 
======================================================================
=         -- Another Key-bored Genius gets Mouse-trapped --          =
=        luit1@info.win.tue.nl ( in real life: W.M. Jansen )         =
======================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: macgyver@turtle.cis.ohio-state.edu (MacGyver)
Subject: SR II Upcoming products
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:00:23 GMT

Here is the upcoming products for SR II..

In October, the softcover SR II will be available.

Sometimes after is Neo-Anarchstis Guide To Real Life.

Grimoire II will be available in December.


					Mac



-- 
Wilson MacGyver                      |"I do like a road, because you can be 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | always wondering what is at the end
=====================================| of it."
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: Permenant damage in HERO
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:16:40 GMT

Hmmmmmmmm. I don't recall having ever read about this system where each
section of the body has its own little "mini body." That sounds as though it
would get complex (just what HERO needs) real fast. It seems to work though.

The "Destroy" power mntioned sounds like the old "Power Destruction" from
Champs III. I can guess it was removed from the 4th Ed because it was toooo
damn powerful, and also because you can do the same thing by buying the
recovery time way up on a drain or transfer anyway.
From: thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: RE:  Improvisation
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:52:04 GMT
Organization: Runic Writings / Lawrenceville, GA

v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!) writes:

> Okay...so maybe I stated my case a *little* too strong...  ;)  I too do not
> place clue 'right under my players noses' (close a few ytimes, I put them whe
> they would trip over the damn things.. ;) ) but I feel that it is the referee
> job to present all the needed information and no matter how we look at it, we
> ARE placing the clues in front of them.  It seems that the essential part of
> doing so is to place the clues infront of them, but not to make it obvious.
> Agreed?

As long as you can present something without the players being aware
they're being manipulated, you can do any damn thing you please.
Personally, I don't put clues in front of the characters, but rather
beside and behind them.  More challenging that way, and they don't trip
as much.  :)



---
thantos@runic.via.mind.org (Paul Williams [SysOp])
Runic Writings
From: bart@muppet.bt.co.uk (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: H&S vs RP despair
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: bart@muppet.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom

-extract taken completely out of context-
>
>I think the main problem is that Larry's got a playing style more closely
>related to hack & slash than he thinks; his concept of roleplaying is to
>carefully describe HOW you kill your opponent.  
_

Yup, this happens a lot. Like a CoC game I ran on a bunch od D&D&nothing 
else players. Everbody they met in a village was "enemy" and needed to be 
wasted. I mean everything - policemen,farmers,housewives,dogs... I tried
to impress upon them that you just don't do that in 1920's  USA (without
an excuse :-) but to no avail. 

I think the ambience and subtlety of some systems is lost on many.

Hmm, in some cases I gotta include myself. There was that incident in New
Orleans 1925 with the werewolf...

Tim
---
<NEXT MESSAGE LEFT SATURDAY 9:24 PM>
Sorry, It started to hit me like a um...  2 ton heavy thing
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Subject: Re: Btech comp version
Originator: bkdavis@c00059-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:25:00 GMT


In article <Bu829t.M0B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mcs52867@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike) writes:
|>Path: taco!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mcs52867
|>From: mcs52867@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike)
|>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
|>Subject: Btech comp version
|>Message-ID: <Bu829t.M0B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 15:03:28 GMT+5:00
|>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
|>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
|>Lines: 7
|>
|>Does anyone know what happened to the computer version of Btech that somebody
|>was supposed to be working on.  He said that he would post info in a few days,
|>but that was at least a week ago.  Just curious...
|>  
|>Mike
|>
|>p.s.  What happened to the Btech Muse???
|>
In article <Bu829t.M0B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mcs52867@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike) writes:
|>Path: taco!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mcs52867
|>From: mcs52867@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike)
|>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
|>Subject: Btech comp version
|>Message-ID: <Bu829t.M0B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 15:03:28 GMT+5:00
|>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
|>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
|>Lines: 7
|>
|>Does anyone know what happened to the computer version of Btech that somebody
|>was supposed to be working on.  He said that he would post info in a few days,
|>but that was at least a week ago.  Just curious...
|>  
|>Mike
|>
|>p.s.  What happened to the Btech Muse???
|>
YEAH I AM STILL WAITING MYSELF.

BRIAN AKA
BREBANE
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc