HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 15
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:33:00 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <92211.183249IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> With one out in the top of third inning with a runner on first, the
> batter hits a liner into left center field that drops in for a hit.
> Rounding the second base bag, though, the runner from first misses
> the bag, scoring on the play. The batter-runner trots into second.
> 
> Noticing that the runner from first missed touching second base,
> the second baseman asks for the ball from the third baseman and
> makes an appeal to the second base umpire, who quickly declares the
> runner from first out.
> 
> As the official scorer, how do you score this play in regards to
> the runner and the batter-runner? Who gets credited with what and
> why?

The batter is credited with a double.  No RBI, as no run scored.
The runner is out at second base.  The second baseman gets a putout.
No assists are awarded on appeal plays (I think).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
From: jwc@netx.com (Jeff Comer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mesa form Indians?
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:23:04 GMT
Organization: The Chaos Bobs

ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes:
>Anyone know how the Indians got a hold of tonight's pitcher - Mesa? Any
>Indian experts out there? Did they get him through the Alex Cole trade?
>The paper says he's 3-8 this year but I don't think he's played with the
>Indians! Thanks.

Hooo, boy, are you Tribe fans gonna like this guy! Once word gets out that 
Jose "Meat on the Table" Mesa is pitching for the Indians, attendance at
Cleveland Stadium should skyrocket. Y'see, the Joser was released from the
Orioles because he couldn't pitch worth beans. Yeah, he's got that fast
ball allright, but it's anybody's guess where it's going to be when it
reaches the plate area. Jose was designated for assignment and before he
became a free agent, Cleveland snatched him up, for a AA-outfielder named
Kyle Washington. 

Mesa and Oswald Peraza came from the Jaybirds in 1987 for Flanagan (what
a deal, eh!?). Now Flanny's back with the O's, Mesa is gone, and Peraza
is God-knows-where. Mesa never could pitch; his liefetime numbers in the
majors up thru 91 are 10-16, 5.49ERA, 201.2IP, 123ER, 104BB, 105SO, 36G.
He's still got that speed, though; if someone could teach him control,
and maybe a decent change, he might make it.

--
Jeffrey W Comer * jwc@netx.com * 703-749-2369 (v) * 703-749-2375 (fax)
Mussina for Cy Young! Hey, it's possible!
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:54:41 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.183101.116@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.162536.6999@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>Morris is not going to win 20 games this year.  People say that
>>Morris' ERA is deceptive.  I already addressed that question in a
>>start-by-start analysis of this season.  He has gotten exceptional run
>>support *and* has gotten very lucky.  
>
>  I always thought that about Morris also, when I just finally realized
>  that he's a winner. If Toronto scores 3, he'll give up 2. If they score
>  8 he'll give up 7. 

You weren't listening.  Valentine, not two weeks ago, went very carefully
through all of Morris's starts this year, inning by inning, and showed
conclusively that Morris is giving up those runs *before* the Jays score
theirs.  Now are you claiming that

	1. Morris is clairvoyant, and knows when his team is going to 
	   score 8 runs in the late innings to bail him out?

	2. Morris has a voodoo ability to improve the Jays' offensive
	   performance when he needs it?

	3. Morris's luck is really a telekinetic subconscious aura, and
	   can be expected to persist in pretty much its present form?

As far as I can tell, those are the only explanations that would allow for
Morris's great W/L record to be his own fault.

-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
From: rrmst3@pitt.edu (Bert  Molinari)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cy Young in the 80's
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:37:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: rrmst3@unix.cis.pitt.edu

Could someone post the list of Cy Young winners in the 80's?  I'm trying to
remember if Lamarr Hoyt won it.

thanks, 

bert 
-diehard sox fan (red that is)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 6669030@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Twins Baserunning
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 21:59:42 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>I'm not sure how many people saw last night's Twins/Red Sox game on ESPN,
>but for those who did, I am curious on your reaction to some of the Twins
>decisions on the bases.  The time in question is the top of the 4th.
>Shane Mack doubles to start the inning.  Kirby doubles him home, Twins up
>3-1.  Chili Davis hits a single to left-center, medium depth, and Kirby tries
>to score but is thrown out at the plate.  Davis moves to second on the throw.
>Replays showed that Puckett was actually safe, but the decision to send him is
>the question here.  If Kirby stays at third, you have men at 1st and 3rd with
>obody down.  The Twins were hitting very well up to this point so why not hold
>him?  Any reactions.  The same inning Chili tried to score on a sac fly and
>as gunned down by Tom Brunansky when he went in standing up.  If he had slid
>e would have been safe.  All in all it was a very ugly inning.
========================================================================
 My only problem is that Chili was "sleep-running" If he would have slid
he would have been way safe...As for Puckett he was safe by a mile, so I
wouldn't question the call to send him...I would however question the
call by Mr. Magoo, who called Puckett out even tho' both feet and half
of his butt was across the plate before Pena made the tag...


Billy K.  (expletives deleted)


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for CFs
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:36:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.223405.29801@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>Here are their numbers since '86, year by year.  ('86 was Bonilla's rookie
>season).
>		Bonilla			Puckett			Advantage
>'86		.256/.352/.333		.288/.330/.385		Puckett
>'87		.300/.351/.481		.328/.366/.537		Puckett
>'88		.277/.366/.476		.356/.375/.545		Puckett
>'89		.281/.358/.490		.339/.379/.465		Even?
>'90		.280/.322/.518		.298/.365/.446		Bonilla (small)
>'91		.301/.391/.492		.319/.352/.460		Bonilla (big)
>
>On a career basis entering this season (which Puckett is dominating), however,
>Puckett and Bonilla are on about the same level (equal OBP, Bonilla with 6
>points higher SLG), so your point is taken.  However, Puckett, as you can see,
>has really been in slight declines since his excellent '88 season, but was
>still considered a top offensive player even last year, when, by RC/27, he
>was inferior to at least these players in the AL:  (Also, Puckett is 2 years
>older)
>
>Mickey Tettleton
>Frank Thomas
>Rafael Palmeiro
>Paul Molitor
>Wally Joyner
>Kent Hrbek
>Cecil Fielder
>John Olerud
>Dan Pasqua
>Julio Franco
>Lou Whitaker
>Willie Randolph
>Wade Boggs
>Edgar Martinez
>Cal Ripken
>Rickey Henderson
>Ken Griffey, Jr.
>Danny Tartabull
>Jose Canseco
>Ruben Sierra
>Shane Mack
>Chili Davis
>Harold Baines
>Jack Clark
>Brian Downing
>Sam Horn
>
>At least last season, he wasn't anywhere close to being a top offensive
>player, but was still touted as one.

This list includes some who ARE legitimately better offensive players than 
Puckett (eg, Thomas, Canseco, R Henderson) and quite a few who may have had a 
better season than Puckett, but are really not as good (Pasqua, Horn, et al)
on any sort of consistent basis. 

However, Canseco is having (so far) a BAD year; I would still say he is 
one of the top offensive players in the game,  one (or even two) bad seasons
notwithstanding.

Mike

-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: binkley@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Binkley)
Subject: Re: Herzog Seen Shopping In Syracuse
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:36:18 GMT

BW says the Jays are "reportedly" interested in Tim Fortugno, just
called up fom AAA, who pitched against Toronto on Monday (5 2/3 IP, 5
H, 3 R).  Does anyone know anything about him?

Peter Binkley
binkley@epas.utoronto.ca
From: chriss@sam.amgen.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: Re: Where will Oakland be playing Aug. 14,15,or 16?
Organization: Amgen
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:35:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.141834.5776@iscsvax.uni.edu>, korver@nova.cs.uni.edu ( Juliana Korver ) writes:
> 
> 
> Could someone please tell me where the Oakland A's will be playing the
> weekend to August 14,15 and 16?
> 
> Thank you.
> Juliana Korver 

The A's will be at home playing the California Angels.  Gametimes are 7:35p for
the Friday nite game, and 1:05p for the Saturday and Sunday games.

Chris S.
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All 6th-best team
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:01:01 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>>
>>>       SS      Howard Johnson          Mets
>>[...]
>>> Interesting, isn't it?
>>
>>I think that's the word for it, yes. A gutsy placement.

dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:>
>:-)
>Believe me; I know.  However, flanked by Pendleton and Oquendo, I think I can
>get away with it without crossing the "Infield Structural Integrity" (ISI)
>line below which life becomes...interesting.
>
>I still claim that, on an otherwise sound defensive team, Johnson would be
>one of the most valuable shortstops in the league.

I am in full agreement here; he generally bats with great acumen. I consider
this year to be an outlyer; perhaps he's trying to convince the public that
since he couldn't even hit a beach ball, he's actually a *good* fielder...I
never thought I'd see the day when HoJo can't even drive a fastball. Where's
Acker when you need him?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh  | "From Hell's heart, I stab at thee. For Hate's sake
       "N.I.N.A."        |  I spit my last breath at thee..." - John Milton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Subject: The Two Ways Of Looking At The A's Chances
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:52:07 GMT

  I find the A's perhaps the most interesting team thus far in the American
League and there are two ways of looking at their chances for a championship
season:

  1) They don't actually have that great a team. How many good players do they
have? Eck, Rickey, Big Mac and Canseco are fabulous players but their rotation
consists of aging pitchers who seem destined to crumble. Despite pitching in
a pitchers park, their team hasn't looked anything like the powerhouses of the
late 80's as Stewart, Moore and Welch have aged and aren't nearly the pitchers
they were even two years ago. A team that starts guys like Carney Lansford,
Walt Weiss and Willie Wilson doesn't look like it's going to have much offense.
The team just doesn't have enough to win.
  2) Well they've gotten this far with what they've got and when Henderson (Dave
and Rickey) and Canseco snuff up to form the A's will really start to kick butt.
Considering their injuries early to their two best players the A's can still
win the division.

  And so lies the two ways to evaluate the A's. What do I think will happen?  
Both.
   Huhh? Say what? Well as the long and drawn out debate of "best" vs.      
"champion" proved (well to most of the netters anyways) that the best team
doesn't necessarily win, I think the Twins are (IMO) a better team and not
tremendously better, but nonetheless viewably better. But option 2) must be
considered because the A's are definitely within striking distance despite
losing two of the game's finest players and have probably suffered the 
longest hardship that they would face this year. Had I known that Canseco,
both Henderson's would have injury problems, Harold Baines would struggle and
their veteran pitchers had clearly shown their age I would have predicted
the A's to finish 5-10 games under .500. But their here and Eck, McGwire, Rickey
and Jose could conceivably lead them to a title.

					Gord Niguma
					niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca
					(fav Player: John Olerud)
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: luck in baseball
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:50:38 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

I have a real problem with some comments made on this newsgroup about
luck.  I have not read them all, but Ms. Nichols especially continually
talks about how luck enters in to one run games, world series play, etc.

Well, I do not believe in luck in baseball, because the game is based
on skill.  I now explain a few scenarios mentioned often:

1) The Twins were lucky to win game 7 because of Smith's baserunning error.

Response: NO, that is not luck.  The Braves played a player who is notorious
  for doing dumb things.  Part of a player's makeup is his brain.  That
  makes Smith a poorer player, and the Braves a poorer team overall than
  they would have been had Smith been a smart player.

2) Intangibles are luck.

Response: NO, that is not luck.  Intangibles are things like managerial
moves and team drive.  You are telling me that if you took 2 equal teams
and had Tony LaRussa manage one and someone that knows nothing about baseball
managed that other, that when LaRussa's team performed better that would be
luck?

3) Bloop hits are luck and line drive outs are bad luck.

Response: NO, that is not luck.  Are you going to say that you lost
the game on a couple of bloopers and that is bad luck?  What if your
team got some bloopers in the same game?  What if the hitter fought
off a good pitch and fisted it into right?

4) Bad calls are bad luck.

Response: This is the only ray of hope the luck believers have.  But my
argument is that first, several bad calls happen after bad plays.  If
you throw it high to first and the first baseman stretches for it and
gets the out, but the ump rules he was off the bag, then you should 
have thrown accurately.  Also, if you play well enough, you can overcome
a bad call.

My basic argument is that the good teams are the ones who don't allow
luck to enter into the game.

--dave
From: uiatma.atmos.uiuc.e!hbrooks@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Buffalo (Includes Red Sox rumor!)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:25:00 GMT
Organization: NSSL
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <oePLibS00WB444_2Z4@andrew.cmu.edu> al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit 
Likhyani) writes:
>Kevin Young has his average up to .293 with 16 doubles 3 triples and 7 home
>runs in 311 at bats.  No walk data.  Again, I think he must be on a pretty
>long hot streak since I can remember his average in the .220's back in
>May.  He may be a palatable solution at third base.

As an isolated data point, Young looked very good at the plate Monday night.
He was 3-for-3 with two walks.  He showed good patience and hit hard what he 
swung at.

Victor Cole pitched well for the most part.  One bad inning-double by Keith
Miller, walk to Maurer, and the final act in a curious series of encounters
with Balboni.  Balboni was in his first game back after missing a month
with viral meningitis and his timing seemed way off.  Cole had gotten to miss
change-ups by a couple of feet in each of the first two ABs (twice on one of
them) before getting him out on fastballs--the first a 400+ foot drive to
center and the second a towering pop-up that Balboni just got under and was
clearly upset not to have hit.  First pitch to Steve in the AB in the 6th
is a change-up that he is way out in front of.  (Looks just like the first
two ABs).  Then, Cole throws that that same fastball he'd thrown in the 4th
and a millisecond later it's about 25 feet above the top of the Marlboro
Man's hat on the ad above the left field wall.  Somebody (catcher Tom 
Prince or someone on the bench) should have banned the fastball to Balboni
long before the HR, but it cost Cole the ballgame.

Additional rumor that came out of a nice article on Rob Maurer in yester-
day's _Daily Oklahoman_:  Rob says that he's constantly hearing rumors
that he's going to be traded to various places.  The current rumor he's
heard is that the Red Sox are trying to acquire him.  Anyone from the Red
Sox contingent (Val???) hear anything about this from your end?  Maurer
would probably do extremely well in Fenway--left-handed line drive hitter
with some power who walks a lot.  (Actually, he might do well a number 
of places--Worrell for Maurer?  I like it.)

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks (NSSL, Norman, OK) hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
Officially self-employed, self-speaking
Andres Galarraga (Through 21 July)  .194 BA  .286 SLG  .234 OBA
27 H away from .300  6 HBP  3 BB
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:45:36 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: RC/27 for CFs
	<1992Jul21.044941.15476@honte.uleth.ca>
Distribution: na

>At the very least, Hal should bat Brian 8th or 9th. But it seems every time he
>has a multiple-hit game, he's back in the lead-off spot again, despite having
>little base-stealing success and a terrible OBP. He's a brilliant defensive
>centerfielder - I'll give him that, but this lead-off experiment has gone on
>way too long. He should bat him 8th or bench him and use him as a defensive
>sub.

Who bats laedoff then?  I guess you are saying Kieth Miller.

Then what is the order?

Miller
Jefferies
Joyner
McReynolds
Brett
Eisenreich
McFarlane
McRae
Rossy

I guess that is the best option with what is there.  How about this...

Moore            CF
Miller           2B
Conine           RF
Hiatt            3B
Medina           DH
Joyner           1B
McReynolds       LF
Jefferies        SS
Mayne            C

The 1995 American League West Division Champions????

-Todd
From: aiag.enet.dec.com!kuras@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Where have all the flakes gone?
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:40:00 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


The Modern Day Flake lives, but is outshadowed by the high salaries. As a
result, the Flakes don't get the recognition they deserve.  Perhaps some of
today's flakes are regarded as whiners, complainers, babies, overpaid stiffs,
simply because of the salary structure.  Andy Van Slyke, is, imo, a true 
flake
who is not any of the negatives listed in the previous sentence.  He's had 
some recognition on shows like ESPN & This Week in Baseball, showing some of
his antics on the bench.   

But Flakes don't get the press that they deserve!
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: AMATEUR: Miskatonic Pods Update....The Host with the Most is back!
Summary: I think I aged ten years in 11 weeks.
Keywords: Schlage, Master, American, Yale.
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:42:12 GMT
Organization: Aerobicize - The Ted Frank Way!

After a LONG hiatus, I returned to late season action with the
Miskatonic Cephalopods last night, as threatened.  After receiving
some important tips from some supportive net people, I didn't have a
BAD day.

Played CF in a park I hadn't played in before - Rose Field (no, not
named after Him...), where poor lighting is a way of life.  Managed to
catch 5 balls in Center Field, and not pull too many muscles.

At the plate ...  0 for 2 with 2 walks, and a run scored.  Apparently,
someone moved the bases further apart than they used to be, as it
takes me much longer to get from one to another now.

(I'm certain it has nothing to do with these 22 pounds I've put on
since I was in shape.)

Kent Hrbek and I will be out together this year during Dilly Bar
Season.  We'll be the bloated things in red.

Bottom line: Pods lose, 6-4, to The Old Men and the Kids.  Second
season record is 8-6.  Next game is a sure loss, as we'll be facing
former major league pitcher Bob Owchinko, I assume.  (The pitcher is
listed as B. Owchinko, and how many of those can there be?)

And even though Bob Owchinko was a lousy major league pitcher, he's
more than enough to dust a power and walks based offense in the SVBL.

His opponent on the mound?  G. Huckabay.  Sheesh, as if I don't have
ENOUGH problems.  But the several weeks off have greatly helped my
shoulder.  My arm was live last night.  I swore off pitching, but duty
calls.

Until then....

Go Pods!  


-- 
*  Gary Huckabay  * "Win or lose, Twins forever." - John Stuart Mill           *
* "Not as hostile * "I wonder if Carl Rempert has cute buns." - G. Spira       *
*   as he seems." * "He's the most aptly named person on the net." - D. Kirsch *
*  - D. Cleary    * "Huck, Throw a strike!  That stays IN the park!" - D. Low  *
From: toronto@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (James Moseley)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ESPN
Keywords: ESPN scheduling!
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:21:59 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

If you want to know ESPN's schedule for the entire week call:

203-585-2236.

It's a neat recorded message that tells you the schedule and what part of the  nation gets the alternate games as well!

James "I've lived in Texas all my life don't ask me why I'm a Toronto Blue
      Jay fan"
Moseley

toronto@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd Harris Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cardinals protected list (was Re: Pedro Guerrero)
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:22:04 GMT
	<l6o61nINNat3@cronkite>
Distribution: na
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Smith (Lee of course) is protected, Worrell is not.  What does that say
>about their respective chances of staying with the team ?

I think Mike Perez is the closer of the future.  Isn't Lee Smith older
than dirt?  And he's not a 10/5 player.  I think he's gone.

-Todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rpb@lorenz.colorado.edu (Robert Baptist)
Subject: Re: 1969 Mets Rotation
Summary: Jamie McAndrew 
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:36:17 GMT

In article <29JUL92.13302346@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>The 1969 Mets had a five-man starting rotation:
>
>Tom Seaver (25-7, 2.21, 36 starts)
>Jerry Koosman (17-9, 2.28, 32 starts)
>Gary Gentry (13-12, 3.43, 35 starts)
>Don Cardwell (8-10, 3.01, 21 starts)
>Jim McAndrew (6-7, 3.47, 21 starts)

   I grew up around the block from the McAndrews-- does anyone know
how Jamie McAndrew is doing for Albequerque?  (AAA Dodgers.)  Is he
still there?

 Thanks,    - Robert


>
>Heather
>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu