HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ruderg@aix.rpi.edu (Gregory Allen Ruderman)
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
Subject: Re: What rank is Chief O'Brien?
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:48:46 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

In article <1993Jan12.005918.10989@samba.oit.unc.edu> Catherine.Collingwood@launchpad.unc.edu (Catherine Collingwood) writes:
>I would tend to agree withthe idea that O'Brien is a CPO if it wasn't for
>two facts:
>
[first fact deleted due to bandwidth considerations]
>
>The second is that I could clearly see rank pips for Ensign on O'Brien's
>uniform, and then later Lt. j.g., and I noticed he's wearing the rank of
>full Lieutenant on DS9.  I would tend to believe this markings considering
>his treatment of Ensign Ro in "Disaster."  He very clearly thought of her
>as his subordinate.
>
[more stuff deleted]

>Lady Firebird
>
	I'd agree with you, except for one thing.  I was looking very closely
at Miles' tunic, and he is still wearing the one hollow pip.

**************************************************************************
	Some hopefully not wrongly crosposted stuff from ruderg@rpi.edu
		Also Known As        Dooley.the.Mauve

	Dr Bashir:  I'm a Doctor, not a....
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Subject: Re: What rank is Chief O'Brien?
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:26:03 GMT

Is "Rear Admiral (lower half)" what used to be called "Commodore"?  I under
stand that we haven't Commodore's in our Navy any longer, although we did at
one time.
 
In one of the ST novels it was stated that there could be only one Captain
on a given ship at a given time, and that if there happened to be more than
one, the one who was NOT in command of the ship would be temporarily bumped up
to Comodore.  Is this in accordance with actual Naval practice, and is that
what happened to the rank in the USN, or did the novelist make that up?
 
jjd@cray.com (Jeff Drummond) writes:
 
>
>In article <1993Jan11.122526.17195@hemlock.cray.com> gn@cray.com writes:
>>My understanding of the hierarchy of command in the U.S. Navy
>>is, from lowest to highest (sorry, don't know where warrant
>>officers fit in):
>>
>>Enlisted:
>>
>>       Seaman Third Class
>>       Seaman Second Class
>>       Seaman
>>       Petty Officer Third Class
>>       Petty Officer Second Class
>>       Petty Officer First Class
>>       Chief Petty Officer
>>
>>Commissioned:
>>
>>       Ensign
>>       Lieutenant Junior Grade (jg)
>>       Lieutenant
>>       Lieutenant Commander
>>       Commander
>>       Captain (the rank, not the command honorific)
>>       Admiral (the more stars, the higher the rank)
>
>Here are the grades of the U.S. Navy, at least as of 1966 (I think
>something may have changed with respect to rear admirals not too long
>ago, but I don't remember).  This is from a Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedic
>Dictionary.
>
>Grade Title
> E-1  Seaman Recruit
> E-2  Seaman Apprentice
> E-3  Seaman
> E-4  Petty Officer Third Class
> E-5  Petty Officer Second Class
> E-6  Petty Officer First Class
> E-7  Chief Petty Officer
> E-8  Senior Chief Petty Officer
> E-9  Master Chief Petty Officer
>
> W-1  Warrant Officer
> W-2  Chief Warrant Officer
> W-3  Chief Warrant Officer
> W-4  Chief Warrant Officer
>
> O-1  Ensign
> O-2  Lieutenant (Junior Grade)
> O-3  Lieutenant
> O-4  Lieutenant Commander
> O-5  Commander
> O-6  Captain
> O-7  Rear Admiral (lower half)
> O-8  Rear Admiral (upper half)
> O-9  Vice Admiral
> O-10 Admiral
> O-11 Admiral of the Fleet
>
> Warrant Officers are officers that serve without commissions; they rank
> above enlisted personnel and below commissioned officers.
>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>Gary Nelson                                            gn@cray.com
>
>-Jeff    jjd@cray.com
>--
>The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: gn@cray.com (Gary Nelson)
Subject: Re: What rank is Chief O'Brien?
Reply-To: gn@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:25:26 CST

In article ukutqf0@twilight.wpd.sgi.com, sean_murphy@quixote.wpd.sgi.com (Sean Murphy) writes:
>It seems to me that the Star Trek rank system is based on the Navy's 
>system. In the Navy, Chief is a enlisted rank and not that of an officer.
>I wish that Star Trek would clarify if O'Brien is an officer or an enlisted
>man. I feel that the non-commisioned officers and enlisted personnel on
>ST should have different types of uniforms so that you can easily distinguish
>their rank.
>
>
>Sean Murphy


It seems to me also that the Federation "food chain" is based 
on the U.S. Navy's.

I think O'Brien is a Chief Petty Officer, an enlisted or
noncommissioned officer (actually, the highest NCO
rank).  He can be a CPO while serving in the post or
billet of Chief Operations Officer (I believe that's his
position on DS9). (Smaller ships in the Navy, like tugboats
and minesweepers, may have NCOs filling roles that would
be filled by commissioned officers on larger ships.)
So, my take on the situation is that CPO O'Brien is the COO.

(This difference between rank and job may be why Cisko is called 
Commander rather than Captain -- he's not the Captain of 
a vessel, he's a Commander filling a noncommand position; a
person filling the role of captain of a vessel is called
"Captain" regardless of her/his rank.)

The Navy also has commissioned and warrant officers. I'm
not too sure about warrant officer -- it seems like it's
something midway between an NCO and a commissioned officer.
I believe the highest warrant officer is Chief Warrant Officer. 

Another question is whether this ranking system relates at
all to the division of responsibilities among the ranks in
the U.S. Navy.  It's hard to tell given the little we see
in terms of everyday shipboard duties and of the crew.

My understanding of the hierarchy of command in the U.S. Navy 
is, from lowest to highest (sorry, don't know where warrant
officers fit in):

Enlisted:

	Seaman Third Class
	Seaman Second Class
	Seaman 
	Petty Officer Third Class
	Petty Officer Second Class
	Petty Officer First Class
	Chief Petty Officer

Commissioned:

	Ensign	
	Lieutenant Junior Grade (jg)
	Lieutenant		
	Lieutenant Commander					
	Commander
	Captain (the rank, not the command honorific)
	Admiral (the more stars, the higher the rank)
	

-----------------------------------------------------------
Gary Nelson                            		gn@cray.com
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 14:34:15 EST
From: Captain Tuck <X25KB@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
Subject: Re: DS9: The Themesong
 <1993Jan8.144623.15065@news.acns.nwu.edu>
 <1993Jan8.095524.25712@hemlock.cray.com>
 <1993Jan8.181431.19350@news.acns.nwu.edu>

I really think thAT all of you are really sad.  I admit I didn't enjoy the
absence of a voice over, but Gilligan's Island? Come on.

Hey wait a minute- what about the brady bunch?

Here's the story
of a show named Star Trek
that spawned 6 movies of its own
with hair pieces aplently
like Sy Sperling only knows

Heres the story
of it's lonely spinoff
that suddenly had one of it's own
with theme songs
just like the other
but the last one had no words

Untill one day when ds9 joined
the others, and we knew that it was much more than a bunch
this group then some how became ridiculus
and was then known as the STAR TREK bunch

the st bunch, the st bunch
thats the way it became the st bunch
From: sll28@cc.usu.edu (Lorna Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
Subject: The Rank Debate:  Don't Panic!
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:10:28 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

Well, it had to happen.  The great "O'Brien's Rank" and "Is Troi's Rank
Honorable" debates, having made the rounds of rec.arts.startrek, 
r.a.s.current, r.a.s.misc, r.a.s.tech and having invaded r.a.s.fandom
on occasion, have finally found a home here at a.s.c.  The only group
not infected is r.a.s.info, and that's because it's a strictly moderated
group.

However, before people start flaming others for their participation
in these discussions, it should be noted that whenever the story content
of a.s.c gets low (as it usually does at the beginning of a quarter or
semester for some reason :-)) the noise ratio immediately rises.  So
let's not panic, people.  Instead, let's concentrate on getting something
together to fill a.s.c with its proper content:  *creative* works. 

Yes, I am working on something, but those who remember the length of time
it took me to finish _Boldly_In_Shadow_ aren't holding their breaths.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to repost some older works that the
newbies may not have seen before, go ahead.

Lorna 
-- 

     -------------------------------------------------------------
               Lorna Payne
               Certified Math Geek and Grammarian
     -------------------------------------------------------------
     The concept is simply staggering.  Pointless, but staggering.
                         -The Doctor (The Pirate Planet)
     -------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: glover@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Eric Glover)
Subject: Re: DS9: The Themesong
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:46:23 GMT

In article <C0JHGE.1KB@acsu.buffalo.edu> v128juxa@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SCHUYJUANNAH) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.231554.1866@fcom.cc.utah.edu>, val@news.ccutah.edu (Val Kartchner) writes...
>>Since "Deep Space 9" doesn't have a voice-over, I thought that we could
>>at least have a themesong for it.  What about this one?
>> 
>>--------------------
>> 
>>(To the music of "Guilligan's Island", first season.)
>> 
>>The first officer was a might fighting woman
>>The Captain brave and sure.
>>Five crewmembers set sail that day
>>on a two-hour premier... a two-hour premier.
>> 
>>        (Sounds of Cardassians attacking station: rumble rumble.)
>> 
>>The Kardasians started getting rough.
>>The tiny station was tossed.
>>If not for the courage of the fearless crew,
>>The station would be lost... the station would be lost.
>> 
>>The station set "ground" on the shore of this uncharted wormhole
>>With Kira.
>>The Commander too.
>>O'Brien and his wife.
>>The Ferrengi.
>>And the rest
>>Are here on "Deep Space Nine".
>> 
>>--------------------
>> 
>>Any comments?
>
>Yea, what about the first stanza, 'sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
>a tale of a sailing ship'.....etc..? You didn't make up lyrics for it!
>
>Otherwise, it's good.

Alright How About

Sit Right Back and view a tale,
A tale of a fate full trip...
That started near this gaping hole
Aboard a ram sacked ship...
From: stevie@ee470.EE.McGill.CA ( steven karl  uggowitzer )
Subject: Getting posts via email
Organization: EE Lab, McGill University EE Lab, Montreal
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:18:55 GMT

Hi, I'd like to know if it is possible to receive postings from this newsgroup
via email.  A friend of mine would like to get access but her network system does
not yet support news. Any suggestions???

Please send email to:

    stevie@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca

Thanks

P.S. Is the reverse possible?  Can I mail an posting somewhere and have it posted
     here?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Karl Uggowitzer                                  tel: (514) 398-7416
Undergraduate Computer Facility                        home: (514) 256-9546
Dept. Electrical Engineering
McGill University                                 stevie@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca
Montreal, CANADA                                   stevie@mcrcim.mcgill.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Subject: Old Yellow Eyes Is Back
Reply-To: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Organization: CMP Publications, Inc.
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 00:01:40 GMT
Keywords: data brent spiner stargazer 

There was once a time when I thought that you hadn't lived through really 
wonderfully BAD music unless you were at the 1979 John-Williams-In-Space 
concert at Madison Square Garden, where William Shatner sat lazily upon a 
stool, a cigarette (joint?) dangling from his lips, reciting the words to "Rocket 
Man" during a laser light show.
    Okay, so I was wrong.
    TV Guide recently printed a letter and brief reply about a new album entitled 
"Old Yellow Eyes Is Back," by Brent Spiner And The Stargazers (Stewart, Frakes, 
Dorn & Burton). Unfortunately, they didn't mention the label it's on or where it's 
available.
    Hey, I GOTTA have it. A dear friend (who counts Shatner's "Lucy in The Sky 
With Diamonds" album as one of her odd-but-prized-anyway possessions) tried 
several music shops in the New York City/Long Island area, but alas, to no avail.
    Does anyone out there know where I can acquire this gem? Shops in the New 
York City/Long Island area, or perhaps by mail?
    Thanks in advance!

"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic 
memory circuit, using stone knives and bearskins." --Spock
                             Humble Typesetter
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: greywolf@vesta.unm.edu (Michael H. Tipping)
Subject: Story ideas for someone..
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 07:15:19 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

   Here are a couple of ideas for someone to write on.
  
a - fill in some of the things around the Wolf 359 massacre (as
seen from the points of view of other ships)

or b - An idea from the old FASA game - I remember reading of a
Starfleet wargame (before the klingons were so nice) near the 
klingon neutral zone.  One of those realistic kinds, where you
get two sides and one plays the bad guys (OPFOR).  Well, as the
game started out, the klingons decided that it was time to test
out Starfleet defenses and launched a war.  The Starbase commanders
who were overseeing the games thought that it was all part of the
game and the only people who knew for sure that it wasn't were any
Federation ships that got jumped by real klingons.  Any takers?
			Greywolf...
"I'm a dreamer, not a writer!"
From: quendor@stein.u.washington.edu (Don Sowell)
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
Subject: Re: What rank is Chief O'Brien?
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:26:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

maillet@cs.dal.ca (Andre' Maillet) writes:

>In article <ukutqf0@twilight.wpd.sgi.com>, sean_murphy@quixote.wpd.sgi.com (Sean Murphy) writes:
>|> It seems to me that the Star Trek rank system is based on the Navy's 
>|> system. In the Navy, Chief is a enlisted rank and not that of an officer.
>|> I wish that Star Trek would clarify if O'Brien is an officer or an enlisted
>|> man. I feel that the non-commisioned officers and enlisted personnel on
>|> ST should have different types of uniforms so that you can easily distinguish
>|> their rank.

    This would go against the military side of Star Fleet. I don't think it
would be a good thing if the enemy knew for sure who the officers are.

>     My theory is that O'Brian was enlisted with the honorary rank of Lieutenant.
>Kinda like Troi. (Honorary LT.Comm) Later, he may have decided to enter the chain

   I wasn't aware that Trois rank was honorary. When was this said?


                                           Don Sowell
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative
From: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Subject: Re: What rank is Chief O'Brien?
Reply-To: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Organization: CMP Publications, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 22:28:24 GMT

In article <ukutqf0@twilight.wpd.sgi.com>, sean_murphy@quixote.wpd.sgi.com 
(Sean Murphy) writes:
> It seems to me that the Star Trek rank system is based on the Navy's 
> system. In the Navy, Chief is a enlisted rank and not that of an officer.
> I wish that Star Trek would clarify if O'Brien is an officer or an enlisted
> man. I feel that the non-commisioned officers and enlisted personnel on
> ST should have different types of uniforms so that you can easily distinguish
> their rank.
> 
> Sean Murphy

Sean's on the money here. According to the DS9 novelization, O'Brien's a non-
com (after *22* years in Starfleet, I believe), and this is a big promotion for him, 
rank-wise anyway.
    Also, there's something in an episode--about two years ago?--where we meet his 
former captain, who's gone on a Cardassian-shooting spree. Miles was Ops--
position equivalent to Data's, not bad!--and had to shoot down a Cardie in self 
defense, and couldn't handle being a killer. Perhaps he volutarily opted out of 
the chain-of-command because of this?


"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit, using stone knives and bearskins." --Spock
Humble Typesetter
Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative,rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: brownea@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: Help needed with storyline ideas
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:16:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.182827.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, 
		jsmcgi01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> Starfleet could have specially modified cyber-troops.  A non-Starfleet version
> was seen in a ST:TNG episode.
> These soldiers would probably have great musculature, endurance, memory, etc. 
> Greatly increased physical skills.  They would also have built in 'tronics to
> help them with their task at hand.
> Just a thought.
	IMO, doubtfull.  If so, it would need to come from a warfaring race who
decided to join starfleet.  I say this because Starfleet personell don't
participate in genetic engineering or electronic enhancement.

	And Starfleet doesn't seem interrested in allowing anybody join who
isn't (my phrase) 'mature enough' - the Klingons don't seem to be a part of the
federation yet.  I could be wrong...

|===   You have no choice in the matter, so you may as well give in   ===|
|===   and just be yourself.                                          ===|
From: wilson@glitch.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson)
Subject: Re: Old Yellow Eyes Is Back
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:46:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.033625.8526@liberty.uc.wlu.edu> cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Colin J. Wynne) writes:
>Bill Mallon (billma@utoday.com) wrote:
>
>Is that the same album (the Shatner one) that has Leonard Nimoy doing
>CCR's, "Proud Mary"?  (I shit you not -- it exists.)

The album you are thinking of is called "Golden Throats".  I once
had the extremely unpleasant experience of hearing the entire album
in one sitting.  I still have nightmares.

I understand there is also a "Golden Throats II", but I haven't had
the misfortune to encounter it.

-Dwight

Newsgroups: alt.startrek.creative,rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: branch@halcyon.com (Frank Lee Branch)
Subject: Re: Help needed with storyline idea
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:08:11 GMT

This is a quick guess, but in Star Trek 5 didn't Kirk assault a
terrorist take over of a joint outpost with phasers and on horseback.
Certainly if Star Fleet had real marines or commando's this would be an
awfully silly gesture.

Frank Branch
e-mail branch@halcyon.halcyon.com
B
B

C
C
e-mail b
Newsgroups: alt.personals
From: hkreiter@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Herbert C Kreiter)
Subject: ANy brother DU's out there?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:07:59 GMT

Hey are their any brother DU's out there, if so way don't you give me a buz. I 
was at Ohio-stae      te for awhile before I joined the Air Force, currently I 
am stationed at McClellan AFB in Sacromento CA and would like to talk to any of
the guys.

Fraternally,

HERB
-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
What is today, but another day? We live in a linear time, one which is
restrictive to the past and future, so live in the NOW!

Xref: sparky alt.personals:25184 alt.personals.ads:4187 alt.personals.bondage:2717 alt.personals.misc:1112 alt.personals.poly:448
From: giovanne@ccrs.emr.ca (Mark Giovannetti)
Subject: Re: Pick up lines
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:51:54 GMT

In article <21186@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez005392@othello.ucdavis.edu (Mo) writes:
>giovanne@ccrs.emr.ca (Mark Giovannetti) writes:
>: 
>: "Would you like a PEZ?"
>: 
>I like that one......Very non-threatening.

T'is true, not threatening, unless you use the Death PEZ dispenser ;-)
One must be very careful to choose the right dispenser... Speedy Gonzales
seems to work very well but a Witch PEZ is *very* inappropriate [grin].

>Oh, BTW, I'm back.  Had a great break.

Glad you had a nice holiday, mine was a veritable menagerie of fun.



-- 
---
Mark V. Giovannetti                    These are my opinions.
E-mail: giovannetti@ccrs.emr.ca
                                       Smile, you'll feel better.
Newsgroups: alt.personals,alt.personals.ads
From: ap.7810@cupid.sai.com
Subject: GF ISO GF
Followup-To: alt.personals
X-Ecs-Version: ECS 1.0
Reply-To: ap.7810@cupid.sai.com
Organization: EZ-Intro Contact Service
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 17:47:27 GMT
X-Iso: GF


HI,
I am curently a student looking for someone to chat with and maybe someday 
meet.  I like pretty much all sports and most of the time, I'd prefer to
play, rather than watch. BUt, don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching too!

I'm 22 years old but I don't think age is a major factor.  I think it mostly
depends on one's mindset.  In other words, having an open mind is most
beneficial!

I don't do drugs.  Well, actually, I suppose beer or wine or champagne is a
drug but that's about as bad as it gets for me.  I consider myself to be a 
pretty decent human being!

I am not into things like S&M or BONDAGE.  These things are a total turn off
to me.

I can go on but I'd like to hear from you!  Do write back!

Happy New Year!!!

--
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From: haining@willow.ucsc.edu (Ted Haining)
Newsgroups: alt.personals
Subject: Re: Pick up lines
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:08:32 GMT
Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: willow.ucsc.edu


personally, I've found that bars and similar places
have music playing so loudly that any attempt to use
a line like  'Excuse me, but I have been admiring you 
from afar and thought that I would come over to get 
a better view.' would be impossible because he/she
couldn't understand.  Sometimes a simple 'hello' is 
a bit difficult.  Well, I guess these are only for
the party circuit.

			->ted.
Newsgroups: alt.personals
From: an3039@anon.penet.fi
Subject: ISO: Muscular Men Only
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.personals
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:29:21 GMT


Hi there,

I'm a 26 year old GOOD looking dude with a GOOD build looking for
Well Built/muscular dudes ONLY.  So, if that is you, then drop me a note.

If you are in the Bay Area, that would be preferrd.  But even if you are
not - REPLY anyway.
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Newsgroups: alt.personals