HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Re: accents
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 07:57:07 GMT

In <9208290026.AA19949@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:


>Someone mentioned the bad accents of CC as being another bone of
>contention.  This reminded me that, some time ago, a British actress
>was once giving a lecture on her trade, and came up with the
>intriguing statement that English accents are _very_ distinctive,
>varying not only from region to region, but from city to city.  This
>is modern English, of course; it is my suspicion (without proof) that
>the situation would be aggravated in the 14th century.  Any comments
>from a linguistics person out there?

I'd be very very surprised if you are wrong. You're certainly right
about modern accents (I've seen elderly women who'd been on this side
of the water for decades identify _the street_ my father grew up on by
his accent!), and we know that regional variations were substantially
greater in the Middle English period than they are today - they were
quite distinct _dialects_, not just accents. Couple that with the
slower rate of travel and migration and it seems certain that the
accents even within a dialect region would also have been much more
varied and marked than they are today.  


- Duncan


Duncan Thornton          | An odd thought strikes me - we shall receive no
thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca |             email in the grave.
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A couple of requests and something to think about.
Keywords: Texas story, Latin translation, TV show
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:29:54 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Gentles, a couple of requests

I happened to mention to our local chronicler, the posting about the Texas
family that was raided by the cops and charged with Satan worship.  She
would like to publish it, could someone send me a copy?  Also does anyone
have an update on it?

Secondly, a local fighter has decided on a motto for his household and would
like the phrase, "But she told me she was eighteen!" translated into Latin.
I know it's tasteless, but maybe he'll get tired of it in a couple of months.
Can anyone help with this?

And finally, something to think about.  A TV series called "Covington Cross"
will be appearing this fall.  The show's creator called it "'Bonanza' in
chain mail" in a recent interview.  Like it or not, the mundanes will start
refering to the SCA as "those people who play at 'Covington Cross'" and I
think we need to think about how to deal with this.  What should we say at
demos when it comes up?  Yes, we are?  No, we're not?  Well, sort of?
If the show becomes popular enough, it might give people the idea to try us
out.  Is this what we want?  Are we what they might expect?  Opinions?

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

THE LAST THREE WINNERS OF AETHELMEARC CORONET TOURNEY HAVE BEEN...
_A_riel       fighting for the wife of Sir Raimund  of Rhydderich Hael
_B_ear        fighting for the wife of Sir Ogami    of Rhydderich Hael
_C_hristopher fighting for the wife of Sir Carthalo of Rhydderich Hael
  "Hello? Sir Bedawyr? This is _D_agonell.  If you're not fighting for your
   wife Lena in the next Coronet Tourney, I have a proposition for you ..."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: various and sundry
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:10:49 GMT

In article <9209012204.AA08617@isi.com> kevin@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai) writes:
>Aryk Nusbacher so wonderfully described some early musicians:
>
>> All 'round the fire, the natives had reached back into their race
>> memory and pulled out the primal dances that their ancestors had 
>> done 'round the fires in the dark reaches of the past.  Their 
>> shoulders were hunched, and they pounded out these deep rhythms 
>> of the hunt, of war, even the very rhythms of life.  They were cele-
>> brating these aspects of their existence, both individual and tribal 
>> existence, with spontaneous, heartfelt dance.
>
>Then concluded:
>
>> Just like the Middle Ages.
>
>
>Well, at least it _IS_ pre-17th century. A whole lot pre.
>
>Keradwc
>
No it isn't. It sounds just like an excessively wild night on frat row
in Bloomington, In. Dudes will be Dudes whether you put them in
Budwieser T-shirts and Birkenstocks or Cavalier.

Lothar \|/
        0
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 00030929@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Re: Pennsic Fair; Pennsic Land Allocation
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:06:10 GMT

Greetings all, from Vajk!
 
First, I like the idea of focusing on the "fair" at Pennsic.  At the same
time, I don't think the name should be changed.  The name "Pennsic War"
has certain emotional impact for those of us who have been going for years
(I've now been to ten of the last fourteen), but I still like the idea of
doing other things.  After all, it's "only" and event.  (sounds of gasping
for air, clawing and scratching to escape).
 
While it is true that there is not unlimited land for Pennsic, we have
continued to expand for many years now.  We will probably expand next year.
The question is not, in my mind, whether to expand, but how?  Whether we
expand because of more people, or larger tents, or some other reason or
combination of reasons, we will do so until we reach our limits, if any.
 
Personally, I am in favor of allowing walled camps, and large pavilions.
I would take that as the basis from which to work, and then find a way to
do it.
 
Just my opinions.
 
Vajk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.arts.sf.written
From: PRIEST@vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Subject: Viking Tents
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:57:27 GMT

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto from Thora Sharptooth, greeting!

I'd like to add my two cents to the Viking tent conversation, and incidentally
to make a few points about the book mentioned by Siobhan.

With respect to tents, there are references in several sagas to the use of
tents for camping on land during ship voyages--not least in the trip to
Vinland.  It is pretty unlikely that sod foundations were built up for these
tents before they were pitched; of course, the sod booth foundations at
Thingvellir did offer a somewhat more commodious way to tent for a week
(someday maybe the Coopers will let me do this...).  Incidentally, if anyone
wants information on the textile thought to be the tent canvas at Oseberg,
please e-mail me for the source.

THE VIKING, the book so often said to be by Tre Tryckare, is actually edited by
Bertil Almgren.  It was originally published by Tre Tryckare, Cagner & Co. (I
believe in 1966, but I don't have a first edition copy).  Tryckare was
apparently the person who had the original idea to write the book, which
contains contributions from many people.  My Crescent Books reprint edition
from the mid-70s does not even mention Tryckare in the publishing or author
credits.  

This book is illustrated with many useful photos and some useful line drawings. 
The illustration of the tents is a modern line drawing; to my knowledge there
are no graphic representations of Viking tents in the entire corpus of Viking
Age art.  I would love to be proved wrong on this, though:  it would, of
course, make it easier for us owners of Viking tents to defend ourselves
against charges of abuse if we could cite period illustrations to support our
usage of them. ;>

This book also contains a number of errors.  It has not been revised since its
original publication, and some of the information it presents is now known to
be faulty.  For instance, much of the information on women's garb and some of
the information on men's garb and accessories is incorrect.  (I wrote an
article debunking the women's garb in this book for A&S PIKESTAFF last year, in
case anyone is interested.)  Other peculiar mistakes include the mislabeling of
the wooden implement found at Oseberg and apparently used as some sort of iron
(top-handled, not hollow, flat on the bottom, exposed to lots of heat):  the
book calls it a "soapstone cooking vessel."  Let the reader beware!

*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills
priest@vassar.edu			East Kingdom
            Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
*****************************************************************************
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Email to me
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 00:42:00

To the gentles of the Rialto......

There seems to be a bit of confusion about how to reach me via E-mail....
as my postings on the Rialto originate in Dallas, Texas USA, (Ansteorra)and 
my home is in Phoenix, AZ USA (Atenveldt).....herewith what I will try to
use as a signature block sort of thing for a while, to remind everyone...

   --------------------------------------------------------------

   I get net-mail at the two addresses below. DO NOT SEND NETMAIL
   OR EMAIL TO THE BBS I POST FROM ON THE RIALTO! It is in Dallas.
   I am in Phoenix........these BBSes are in Phoenix.......and the
   first address is the best. Use the second only if the first one
   bounces.....

   --------------------------------------------------------------

   FIDO                  INTERNET

   1:114/110             Joe.Bethancourt@f110.n114.z1.fidonet.org
   1:114/105             Joe.Bethancourt@f105.n114.z1.fidonet.org

   --------------------------------------------------------------

                                                -Ioseph of Locksley
                                                 Professional Grump

... Beat me! Whip me! Make me wear bad Elizabethians!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Xref: sparky rec.org.sca:12405 rec.arts.sf.written:11594
From: greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: COVINGTON CROSS)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:13:29 GMT
Organization: The Rialto

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings
and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Aryk recently posted:

>Of course, to paraphrase great Scot, the King of Scotland was as Scottish
>as the Queen of England's teats...

Of course.  You must mean Maud, wife of Henry I, daughter of Malcolm III of
Scotland (well, her mother was the sister of Edgar Atheling, but...) -- _her_
teats as Queen of England.  As far as the "suckling" argument goes, it doesn't
hold for the Scottish Crown prior to Malcolm IV (1153)  -- David I was just
an English wanna-be, it wasn't "in the blood."

Best Wishes, a tongue firmly in cheek,

Hossein/Greg
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smelly steel wagons at Pennsic
Date: 28 Aug 92 07:23:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.715047126.F00005

Make them throw a blanket over the blasted things if they *must* be on site. 
A blanket or two or three, or whatever it takes.

The others, who are simply being boorish...a court of chivalry is an 
excellent idea.

(Eggs are good, too!-)
(No tomatos though, tomatos ruin paint, and are OOP!-)

Moreach
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Town Battle
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:35:21 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

[walls]
>>Perhaps to the fighters-- but observers wouldn't be able to see anything 
>>then!  Unless, of course, clear lines-of-sight were left open, but that would
>>defeat the purpose.

I agree with Hal; the battle is for the participants, not the spectators.

That said, spectators could probably get a good view from the side of the 
hill, if they're just willing to walk a bit.

Ellisif
From: ics.vance@Control.Com (Vance J. VanDoren)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Town Battle at the War
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:34:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: Control.eF8FqB2w164w
Reply-To: ics.vance@control.com
Organization: Industrial Computing Society

Several good gentles have posted suggestions concerning future
incarnations for the Town Battle that was fought for the first time
this year at Pennsic War.  I marshalled that battle and was standing 
next to my partner when he was knocked cold by a stray glaive shot.
We were both very close to the fighting since there was nowhere else
to be.  Fortunately, he was was wearing a hard hat and was not 
seriously injured.  My point is that any plans for future Town Battles
must take in to consideration the necessary presence of marshals. 
Complicated arrangements of the town's structures and narrow 
passageways will only make the marshals' job infinitely more difficult.
I would rather see some arrangement where the marshals can keep an eye
on the fighting without risking injury as in the Bridge Battle. Any
suggestions that address the safety of the marshals would be much
appreciated.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Edward Zifran of Gendy (was Re: Pennsic Land Allotment)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 03:03:14 GMT

In article <1288@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>Corun MacAnndra writes:
>> The Landocrats this year (yes, there are two of them)
>> are Finn of the midrealm (I don't know him and so don't know his entire name)
>> and Viscount Viscount Viscount Viscount Sir Sir Master Master Edward, 
>      \                                 / |     | |           |
>       Four time ruler of a principality, |     | |           |
>       this I understand.                 |     | \           /
>                                          |     |  One Laurel,
>                                          |     |  one Pelican,
>                                          |     |  got it!
>                                          |     |
>                                         /       \
>                                         Knighted
>                                         twice????

Yes, It's true, he's been knighted twice. The only double knight in the
Knowne World as I understand it. And I hope he forgives me the use of the
familiar name in the public forum. If not, I'm sure I'll find out about it.

In service,

Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |  The great thing about travel is getting to
  Dark Horde by birth   |   meet new people and see new places.
    Moritu by choice    |                            G. Khan
From: nadine@stat.tamu.edu (Nadine Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Programming/eyeglasses
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:55:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: stat.nadine.715546518
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

I tend to believe the business that your eyes adjust to the distance 
they are most used at.  My optometrist seems to think that focussing 
exercises will "limber up" the muscles in use and get them back to
normal.  However, as one might imagine, even a few minutes of these 
exercises cause a lot of tension/headachy-ness.

How near-sighted are you new-comers to near-sightedness?  My prescrip-
tion is negligible, but I perceive it as pretty severe since I had better
than 20/20 before getting near-sighted.

=Nadine=
From: betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:31:15 GMT
Organization: Bradley University


	All things considered, it wasn't that bad. It had a good
story, and the costuming was nice. While there was (naturally) a good
amount of OOP garbage, that's only to be expected for something that
actually _made_ it onto network television.
	Instead of faulting it for its failings, look on it as an
oppurtunity -- some people are going to be enchanted by the image of
the knights and the noble family, and are going to seek out _some_
outlet.
	We can give them that outlet, and help them learn where the
show's failings are.

--
"Ken's a loner?  How long before your Ken is fixed?"
        --- Crow

Robert Crawford				betel@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Carolus goes to Toronto...
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 16:07:20 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <BtK5DH.LGp@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> badorion@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (Brian A. Dorion) writes:
>But first, the mighty (big fool) Carolus blustered:

>>I hereby invite/challenge all fighters in Toronto to
>>meet me upon the field of battle. I suggest reverse
>>order of precedence to determine the lineup.
>>
>Milord, I am veryinterested in your challenge.  If I find that I have the time 
>to travel to Eoforwic on that day I would greatly appreciate crossing blades
>with you.  But I have a question: how are we to recognise your noble self?
>For surely there will be so many honourable fighters who will attend this
>practice that it might be hard to identify the focus of all the attention.

My first impulse is to say "look for the guy with heaps of slain
piled around him, and fighters cringing away", but I will
restrain myself. Oops, guess I did not.

Well, I'm 6'4", weigh about 190lbs, very short brown hair and
beard, My armour is in flux. I will either be wearing a brand 
new incredibly beautiful jupon, quartered in blue and yellow,
and belted with a wide blued and yellow belt with a sneering
1/4 moon tooled into the buckle plate, OR a ratty old grey
jupon with leather dagging and seam binding, decorated with
eastern orthodox crosses. The helm is a visored bascinet
with dagged camail, and I wear a blue and yellow torse and
mantling.

My shield will be either my old device (azure, a martlet volant
rising to dexter, in chief thre mullets of four points or) or
my new device, if I finish the shield (Per saltire or and azure,
a cock erect gules, a chief enarched of the last)...as you can
see I am not quite sure *what* I will look like. 

I will be shouting my challenge out at the event though, so
I suspect you'll just need to look for the lineup of evil grins.

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: consort gender
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:12:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings all, especially Selfran, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

Selfran writes,

>I always wondered what to do about the "inspiration" problem.  I'm not
>in a "relationship" same sx or otherwise, so if I wanted to compete
>in Coronet, what do I do to avoid doing violence to this concept - a concept
>I enjoy *because* it is so high medieval?
>  
>I don't want to just wander up to someone and say "Hey, can I fight
>for you in Coronet".  If I win the damn thing I want to be able to 
>crown the person who *inspired* me to win, the person I really 
>*wanted* to put on the throne.

The notion of being inspired by someone -- and in particular of knights
being inspired by ladies -- is indeed very high medieval.  But the notion
of their being involved with them sexually is, I suspect, rather more
modern.  In many, many, many cases in the middle ages, the lady who
inspired all the young men around was the wife of the head of household
(i.e. their liege lord's wife).  Hey, look, not only can they not all have
been _achieving_ sexual relationships with her, it's just not plausible
that they were all even significantly _hoping_.

And the inspiration is usually to win (and to be worthy of) the respect
and good will of the one admired.

Surely, whatever one's gender preferences, there is _someone_ out there
of the other gender who satisfies the requirements for an SCA consort,
of whom one thinks highly, who one would like to think highly of oneself,
and who would not unless one's behavior were exemplary?

The point of inspiration, at least in the middle ages, wasn't just, or
even primarily, to make the inspired hit harder and feel less; it was
to create standards of honor and courtesy, to keep the fighters more than
louts.

Cheers,

-- Angharad/Terry
From: DEW@PSUECLD.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: ...Dur sings it like, "When I was Khan of the Dark Horde!
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:50:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings!

Seems that one of the letters a friend sent was misdirected to the Rialto...

Therefore, for the record, it's "Dur for Pennsic XXV!  Vote Yes!"

That is my campaign slogan, and I'm sticking to it.


Several people with interests in western European and Middle-Eastern dancing
and music did camp together this Pennsic (and I'm not talking about the
Outlands Royal emcampment).  We taught classes and did demos for folks who
were interested (sort of sca-ing for the Pennsic Populus).  It worked well for
us.

There will be an (unofficial) fire report for this Pennsic, just as soon as I
can get my notes together again.  I really tried not to do it this year,
honest Mongol!


Drumming?  What Dumming?

Salam,
Dale E. Walter     |Dur of Hidden Mountain
dew@ecl.psu.edu    |Orluk Oasis on the War Road (of Aethelmarc)

"I'm the Baron!  Ya gotta loath me!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Stoopid Landless-White-Trash Land-Allocation Tricks....
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:34:59 GMT

In article <9208262112.aa25180@mc.lcs.mit.edu> DEW@PSUECLD.BITNET writes:
>Yet another approach:  you get what you pay for (on a square foot basis, say
>about $0.02/ft Sq/ day seems about right, with a minimum of 25 sq ft /person).

A minor twist--adjust the rates based on the desireability of the real
estate.  Charge a higher fee for sites closer to battle fields,
showers, etc., more for areas with shade.

As for the minimum . . .  My 8x10 viking tent can sleep 4.  It
requires no guys.  The actual ground area is within inches of 8 feet
by 10 feet.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca