HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Supertitling
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:10:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.233247.1219@sinus.stgt.sub.org> stefan@sinus.stgt.sub.org (Stefan Bechtold) writes:
>dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman) writes:
>
>>>One of the reasons I enjoy NY City Opera is their use of supertitles.
>>>Sorry, my Italian** is just not good enough to follow the story line
>>>of an unfamiliar opera.  Any opinions on the use of this technology?
>>>How widespread is its use?
>
>>Every major opera company in the U.S. and Canada with the one exception of 
>>the Met uses supertitles.  Increasingly they are being used in Europe, too.
>Where in Europe ?
>I can't imagine that this technology is used anywhere in Germany.
>Apart from the fact that the opera houses are often old and it isn't easy
>to install such a supertitling, I think the german audience wouldn't 
>accept this because it disturbs the music/acting...
>
>
>Stefan Bechtold
>
As previously mentioned it is used at Covent Garden and Glyndbourne.
Our Danish exchange student says it is used in Copenhagen.  I believe
I have seen stage pictures from Paris (Bastille) showing supertitles.
I don't know anything about German or Italian houses.

Installing supertitling is not difficult.  The equipment is cheap and
titles for standard repertory works can be rented.  In this area
San Jose and West Bay (Palo Alto) Opera companies both use them in
"old" 400 seat theaters.

>
>-- 
>+ Stefan Bechtold # stefanb@delos.stgt.sub.org # Voice +49 711 813240 +
>++++++++sed nemo potuit tangere: merda fuit ! (Martial III 17)+++++++++
>


-- 
____*_  David Lieberman             dl@indetech.com
\  / /  Independence Technologies   {sun,uunet,pacbell}!indetech!dl
 \/ /   42705 Lawrence Place        FAX: 510 438-2034
  \/    Fremont, CA 94538           Voice: 510 438-2030
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Schoeck
In-reply-to: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU's message of Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:38:45 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:57:20 CDT

Stephen P. Guthrie writes:

   Anyone heard of the composer Schoeck?

I encountered Othmar Schoeck, who I think was Swiss, because his work
"Notturno" is coupled with Barber's Dover Beach on an old Juilliard/
Fischer-Dieskau LP.  Notturno consists of more or less unrelieved
darkness (the emotional kind, not just the lights-out kind) but ends
with a section entitled "Big Dipper" which is transcendent.  I also have
a violin concerto and horn concerto by Schoeck which are engaging but
not too memorable.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana and transposition
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:03:09 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

In article <180mrlINN33u@news.aero.org> dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) writes:
%
%Dave Golber wishes to point out that he did NOT write the
%following "misleading cognate".  It was someone else, and it
%has been mis-picked up and blathered around with MY NAME attached
%and I feel attacked and insulted and I'll .. this and ... that 
%and I'll have you all beaten to within an inch of your miserable
%lives with a conductor's baton!!
%
%So don't do it again!
%
%Sigh ... that feels better.
%
%Dave Golber  
%
%(Are :-)s really necessary here?)
%
%%%
%%%%Dave Golber writes:
%%%%
%%%%   Stravinsky's _The History of a Soldier_ ...
%%%%
%%%%Beware the misleading cognate.  The standard translation of the title
%%%%"L'Histoire du Soldat" is "The Soldier's Tale" and that's correct.  "Le
%%%%Conte du Soldat" might have prevented confusion, though with perhaps the
%%%%wrong shading.  Also, I've heard "Pavane pour une Infante Defeunte"
%%%%translated as "Pavane for a Dead Infant", though fortunately it has
%%%%become known, correctly, as Pavane for a Dead Princess.

Sorry Dave. It was me who who translated L'Histoire du Soldat incorrectly.
I didn't know how to spell it in French (I hope it's French, I wouldn't want 
to start another senseless thread) so I thought I'd take a stab at
it in English, it seems that my translation although wrong was clear
enough for everyone to know what piece I was refering to.

[Flame On]
I noticed immediatley that the follow up attributed my mistake to someone
else, however I thought it too trivial to mention, but obviously I
was WRONG.

It is interesting to me that someone would have the gall to nitpick my 
obviously honest and sincere (yet wrong) translation and yet refer to 
nit to the wrong person.
[Flame Off]

All people wishing to further trash my language ability should do so
by sending me email (see below) and save poor Dave more undeserved
abuse.

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Candide broadcast
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:53:00 GMT

In article <CB.92Sep1143651@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes...
> 
>Tonight, the Arts & Entertainment cable channel will broadcast
>Bernstein's Candide.  This is with the London Symphony.  What version is
>this?  Is it the one that was on PBS a few years ago?  Or the revision
>of the recast improved revised revision?
> 
>Chris Brewster
>cb@cray.com
> 
Sorry, I forgot to tell you that if it is the recording I mentioned,
then it will be a concert hall performance, not staging. It was a DG
release.
c.q.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Korngold
In-reply-to: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch's message of Thu, 3 Sep 92 10:06:01 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Sep2.180017.15220@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
	<CB.92Sep2164438@tamarack13.timbuk>
	<1992Sep3.100601.14416@ifi.unizh.ch>
Date: 3 Sep 92 11:18:14 CDT

Deryk Barker wrote:
   
   [Korngold] wroted damned good film music, and maybe he
   actually did find his forte in Hollywood.

I wrote:

   As I understand it, he was not just *good*; he essentially invented
   the whole technique of film scoring.  Maybe Bob K. can fill this in.

Michel Hafner writes:

   That's not true. He certainly was one of the top five film music
   composers in Hollywood from the mid 30s to the mid 40s, but he didn't
   invent the basic scoring techniques. These were established by many
   people and start with silent films that had already original music
   composed for them in addition to arrange- ments of classical
   compositions. There were equally good scores composed by
   contemporaries of Korngold (who started 1935 )

OK, this is how I remember an account that I heard or read.  People had
indeed been writing film music for a while, but it was more generalized:
one 20-minute section of music would have the same over-all mood as the
scene it accompanies.  Korngold supposedly developed the fine-grained
technique of matching musical details to movie action--the kind of thing
that's familiar from old mysteries and adventures, where seemingly every
step (especially transitions of any kind) is individually expressed in
the music.  (This is quite an interesting case for the debate about what
music "means".)  I can't vouch for the accuracy of the foregoing
description, but I heard it from an expert so it must be true.  :-)

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Parsifal
Keywords: wagner,parsifal,boulez
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:57:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.073505.12640@sci.kun.nl> gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse) writes:

>In a magazine I saw an announcement of the release of Boulez' Bayreuth
>live-recording of Parsifal. Can anybody on the net please tell me how this
>one compares to Karajan, Solti, Barenboim or others?

In my opinion, rather low on the list.  Boulez does lovely things with
the more "Impressionistic" (for lack of a better word) portions, like
the hymnlike sequences in much of the Prelude (so the performance starts
out making a good impression).  But in general his approach to Wagner
here is much less successful than it was later in the RING (and there it
was only a partial success).  It's not so much that he's faster than
other conductors, but that the music never accumulates any weight or
drama.  Each beat, each change of harmony, is just like all the others.
This fits in with Boulez's aesthetic, but is hard on Wagner.

Also, his cast is not competitive with the others on records.  Gurnemanz
(Franz Crass) and Amfortas (Thomas Stewart) are nice, if unmemorable,
but James King (Parsifal) sounds constricted and pressurized much of the
time, and Gwyneth Jones (Kundry) is a mess -- no amount of acting is
enough to convince one that her evident vocal distress is the
character's distress.

I hear that Erato is rereleasing Armin Jordan's recording, which served
as the film soundtrack.  That's a highly recommendable Parsifal, as are
Solti and both Knappertsbusches (I haven't heard Barenboim).  Karajan is
lovely, but in an almost abstract sonic sense without drama; he's sort
of like Boulez in this respect, but with a little more romanticism in
him and with a better cast.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:18:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.225722.21384@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen) writes:
>dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) writes:
>
>
>>The point is that on wood winds, different keys can be _very_ different 
>>in terms of the effort it takes to play in that key, because of the 
>>way the machine is set up.  Piano: relatively little such problem.
>
>I dunno, this just sounds like saying what the prevous writer suggested:
>that clarinets in keys a semitone or tone apart are to avoid the effort of
>transposition, which we horn players have to do all the time.  Seems fairly
>extreme to have to own two expensive instruments in order to avoid adding
>five sharps (B-flat to A).  We horn players have to transpose all sorts of
>rot.
>
I suggest that at the next rehearsal, you go up and introduced yourself to 
the clarinet players.  They can be nice people, and often will offer
you cookies, which they carry in their instrument cases.  Observe the
number of keys on their curious instruments.  Observe that there are
MORE KEYS THAN HUMAN BEINGS HAVE FINGERS.  Observe the contrast with horns.

In horns, there is one key per finger.  This leads to a certain 
intimacy and pairing relationship between the two.  The clarinet situation
is much more "And if we meet, it's wonderful".

Be sure to ask the clarinet players to show you the wonderful finger
acrobatics involved in what are loving called "throat tones" ... especially
g-sharp.

More seriously: the point is not the mental effort of transposition:
("half a tone above G is G-sharp"), but the difference in the actual
effort of fingering.  The actual effort of fingering G-sharp is 
considerably more than the effort of fingering G.

After all, you horn players have a whole hand free to keep thrust
down the instrument in a effort to keep the sound from coming out!  :-)

And be sure to enjoy the cookies.

Dave Golber

(Do you know the joke about the three girls whose boyfriends were
brass players?)
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:47:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Aug25.002142.8929@morrow.stanford.edu> AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.000338.7394@morrow.stanford.edu>,
>>>Fantastique_.  I would like to find more orchestral works which are
>>>along this line; grounded in the fantastic and/or macabre.

Also, Prokofiev's .The Fiery Angel. opera, well-done by Jarvi and
the Gothenburg Symphony and some singers (hm...names escape me)
on DG.  If you know the third symphony (c minor, op. 44- really
one of his most frightening and emotional works) the opera is
more of the same, well worth hearing.  (It ends with the music
that later ends the third movt. of the symphony; the music
one may remember- big dissonance and then harsh C major chord-
that ends the symphony ends the third of the opera's five acts.)

schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used for post)
schissel@math.cornell.edu
  
>
>  -- Mark
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Orchestral programming (was: Re: Cardew and "people's music")
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:38:33 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <dgold.0j3o@basso.actrix.gen.nz> dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold) writes:
>Quoted from <46886@dscatl.UUCP> by mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham):
>> 
>> I would say that it depends on the orchestras.  Once might hazard
>> a guess that the major orchestras are more conservative these days
>> than the regional orchestras, as the regionals are more willing to
>> use new works to achieve visibility.
>
>I hope you're right, but I've always thought that the major orchestras
>have been more likely to sneak in a few new works as a result of a larger
>population base and more subscribers.  If an orchestra has some big
>draw-cards like Pavarotti or Perlman, or whoever is selling seats in the US
>at the moment, it's likely that a lot of people will buy subscriptions to
>hear them.  I would think that regional orchestras would be more dependent
>on door sales, which spell death for interesting programming.

Caveat: my comments are as applies to American orchestras.

Yes, the major orceshtras have larger subscription bases, but in a
recession, where does that base come from?  I wonder if the major
orchestras' base represents as "eggs in one basket" mentality, as
it seems to in Atlanta.  I must point out that in the mid-1970's,
the Atlanta Symphony had a New Music Series, with a shared podium
in each concert.  Now we have a music director who says publicly
that you can't build a great orchestra by playing nw music.  Note
also that the 10-year Meet the Composer Residencies program in
major orchestras is *over* -- the new program will focus on
regional and smaller orchestras, as well as other kinds of
ensembles.

>On the other hand, smaller orchestras that record will be looking for works
>that aren't Beethoven or Mahler, and play a big part in keeping life
>interesting.

And a major part of just staying *alive*.  When an audience lives
close to both a regional and a major orchestra, it maakes sense
for the regional orchestra to compete by using more innovative
programming.
  Still, the bottom line lies with the music director (and with
the board by virtue of their *choice* of amusic director).  If you
have one who is willing to program new music *and* play a
supportive role in advocating that music to the audience, then you
will have an orchestral season which includes viable new music
programming.  Of course, if you have a reluctant baord, or a
general manager who actively works against it, you've got
problems.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Nigel Kennedy
In-reply-to: lancer@wpi.WPI.EDU's message of 30 Aug 92 15:52:46 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:08:33 CDT

Stephe Lewis Foskett writes:
   ...
   I hear he has a jazz CD, too...

Ah, cross-over artists.  Has anyone "crossing over" done anything really
worthwhile?  Anyone interested in jazz violin should listen to Joe
Venuti, Stephane Grapelli, or (forgot his name--current jazz violinist).
Kennedy just isn't a jazz man; I find his improvisation dated and
unimaginative.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music (and flamage) of the Junk Age, cont'd... ;-)
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:37:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: dscatl.46919
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Distribution: rec.music.classical
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Sep1.141132.15280@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>When I made a similar claim here about four years ago I tried to be careful
>to limit it only to the stuff that's predominantly random (273",HPSCHD,etc.).
                                                            ^^^^

Ah yes.  And this reminds me of something I forgot to post.

Cage said (probably in only *one* instance in print) that
4'33" could be pronounced "four minutes, thirty-three seconds" or
could be "four feet, thirty-three inches."  (I doubt he ever
suggested 4'33" of arc, though he might have liked that.)
["Conversing with Cage", R. Kostelanetz, page 81]
the second pronunciation was added by Cage to a previous (1975)
interview.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: what about Partch?
In-reply-to: jdhill@star-trek.bbn.com's message of 25 Aug 92 17:46:08 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<17dptlINNqea@agate.berkeley.edu> <l9ksf0INNmsq@news.bbn.com>
Date: 25 Aug 92 15:18:45 CDT

Jack D. Hill) writes:

   Does anyone know if Columbia has re-released _T_h_e_
_D_e_l_u_s_i_o_n_ _o_f_ _t_h_e_ _F_u_r_y on CD?

For those of you whose terminals don't display the above correctly, Jack
is asking about The Delusion of the Fury.  I got this within the last
year; it could have been used but I think it was a cutout, in which case
it was probably from Rose Records in Chicago.  Their number is
312-987-9044.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Supertitling
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:12:39 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Aug31.233247.1219@sinus.stgt.sub.org>, stefan@sinus.stgt.sub.org (Stefan Bechtold) writes:
> dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman) writes:
>>Every major opera company in the U.S. and Canada with the one exception of 
>>the Met uses supertitles.  Increasingly they are being used in Europe, too.
> Where in Europe ?
> I can't imagine that this technology is used anywhere in Germany.
> Apart from the fact that the opera houses are often old and it isn't easy
> to install such a supertitling, I think the german audience wouldn't 
> accept this because it disturbs the music/acting.
There are many great operas in German: works by  Mozart, Wagner, Strauss and 
so on. It is possible for a German opera house only to perform works written in
German. Similarly an Italian or French house could get away with many years of
just Italian or French operas. But the only major operatic composers who wrote
works in English suitable for a large theatre were Gilbert and
Sullivan---hardly meat enough to chew on---and Benjamin Britten. Now do you see
why British and American opera houses choose to use surtitles? 
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: "Pavane..." translation (no longer Re: clarinet)
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:22:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug31.102226.15243
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <BtM1wF.FLB@news.udel.edu>
conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>[...]  "Pavane for a Princess from Days Gone By" might give more
>of the right feel but is much too unwieldy.

How about "Pavane for a princess of yore" then?

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: test
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:16:00 GMT

this is a test
From: jeffand@csa1.lbl.gov (JEFF ANDERSON)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Preparing vs. was-Re: Supertitling
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:03:47 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jeffand@csa1.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.196
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   


Let me start off by saying that I used to hate the idea of supertitles, but 
that I now like them quite a bit.  I try to study the libretto and multiple
recordings before I attend an opera performance, but I find it just isn't
possible to memorize every important nuance of the text, especially in a 
very long opera like Tristan.  What I've found is that the supertitles
complement my preparation by reminding of what the actual text is.  It's
certainly true that the translations are often poor, and that horrible
liberties are often taken, in the names of both practicality and modernization,
but I've found that even when the translations are very, very approximate,
their presence is a big help to my memory.

(Sometimes this kind of backfires.  The way that
'Una voce poco fa' was "cleaned up" for the audiences in this summer's
S.F. production of 'Barber of Seville' had me so annoyed that I was almost
unable to appreciate the music.)

Jeff Anderson
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music of the Fantastic
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:28:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In article <EeaIluy00WBKA5rK0l@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>> .  I would like to find more orchestral works which are
>>along this line; grounded in the fantastic and/or macabre.
> 
There's Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin Ballet (and suite). 

Don't pass up Berlioz's Symphonie Sequel _L'Elio_, although
strictly speaking it's not totally orchestral with a speaker
and choral parts.

If not already mentioned to death there's Saint-Saens' Danse
Macabre and Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain.

Stravinky's Ballets fit the bill (the big trio Firbird, Petrushka, 
and Rite of Spring particularly).

rn
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: Enough about Cage, what about Partch?
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:42:03 GMT

William Sadler (will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu) writes:

> Good news on this front:  The instruments have been entrusted to
> a group in New York that is now in the process of repairing them
> and preparing for performances.  Look for new Partch recordings 
> soon!

Finally!


> For those who find his music un-inspired take a listen to _American
> Highball_ or _Barstow_ or _When Petals Fell in Petaluma_.

Barstow is by far my favorite, with Castor & Pollux a close second. The
latter is one of those pieces which gains a remarkable extra dimension in
live performance. It requires some astonishing athleticism on the part of
some of the performers. That subcontrabass marimba is one big momma.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical