HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M.Kossa@frec.bull.fr (Marc Kossa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: 'small'
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:27:35 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

Resaluton !
Kiel vi sanas ?
Kiel oni diras 'small' en bela esperanto ? malgranda ? estas tian simplan ?
Bonvole, posxtu, ne 'mail' :-)
Also, could someone tell me what is 'The Fundamento' ?
-- 
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"Soyez sage les enfants"                        - Robocop in "Robocop"
From: bhelm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (B. Robert Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: FAQ list
Summary: Request for FAQ list
Keywords: FAQ, novice
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:23:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Aug28.172331.725
Followup-To: bhelm@cs.uoregon.edu
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

I am interested in learning more about Esperanto.  I have been reading
this newsgroup for a while, but have yet to see a FAQ (Frequently
Asked Questions) list appear.  Is there an archive with the most
frequently asked questions and answers for this group?

Dankon,

Rob Helm
(bhelm@cs.uoregon.edu)
From: 72627.2647@compuserve.com (Don HARLOW)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: milda vintro siberia
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:57:08 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

To: Esperanto >INTERNET:esperanto@rand.org

Dato: 920825

Christer Kiselman, pri duoblaj adjektivoj:

>Pri 'granda festo katolika' vi povas legi en Plena Analiza Gramatiko de
>Esperanto, kvankam mi hierau ne povis trovi la ^gustan pa^gon.

Temas fakte pri PAG 272.5.Rim.III, pagxo 363 (4a eldono).

Pri la "kilogramatiko" (kiel Schwartz lerte baptis tiun libron), 
oni devas esti iom singarda, cxar la pli granda parto traktas 
_priskribajn_ kaj ne _preskribajn_ temojn. Nome, Kalocsay 
kaj Waringhien grandparte diskutas kelkajn difinitajn kutimojn 
de iuj euxropaj uzantoj, kaj ne la lauxregulan uzadon de la lingvo. 
Mi dubas, cxu ordinara cxina esperantisto, ekzemple, bone 
komprenus la distingon inter antauxa kaj posta epitetoj, kiun 
K & W priskribas. Oni devas esti tre singarda rilate tiajn 
(eble lokajn aux regionajn) lingvajxojn, kiuj ne estas memevidentaj 
al, ekz., cxinoj aux nordamerikanoj. Des pli en nova lingvo 
internacia, aux internacia lingvo nova. Mi havas nenian deziron, 
je cxi tiu tre malfrua dato, devi parkerigi la _okazecon_ aux 
_esencecon_ de cxiu Esperanta adjektivo (por uzi la K&W 
formulon).

(Por mi, "kompakta aro konveksa" kaj "konveksa aro kompakta" 
havas tute saman signifon -- aro kiu estas samtempe kompakta 
kaj konveksa. Certe povas esti, ke pedagogie gravas la distingo, 
kiun vi volas fari -- sed sxajnas al mi, ke por fari gxin vi devos 
trovi pli bonan rimedon, kiu kongruas kun la gramatiko, kiun 
cxiu lernas. Alie, vi povos miskomprenigi la auxskultantojn.)

=============================================
Don HARLOW                                Redaktoro Esperanto U.S.A.
tel. (1 510) 222 0187
CompuServe [72627,2647]
Internet 72627.2647@compuserve.com

"To discipline Esperantists is to eat soup with chopsticks."
                                                          Confucius
=============================================


Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: chungdan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zhong Qi Iao (Daniel))
Subject: [alfikso] Re: icx
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 05:23:19 GMT


     In kemio (h^emio), jam estas multo da ne-standardaj alfiksoj,
ekzemple "-ik" kaj "-id" por kemiaj kombinaj^oj.  Tial, nov-alfiksismo
*ne* estas nova.  Cetere, mi opinias, ke la enkonduko de "-ic^" ne
estas "feminisma" -- tio estas nur por seks-egalismo.

					*Zhong* Qi-Iao (s-ic^o), Usono
				 ||| \ /  /       /   |  \/   |  / / /  
				 |+|  X  /       <    |       |  \/     
				 --- / \ ---      \   |       |  --|
From: 72627.2647@compuserve.com (Don HARLOW)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: Bahao
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:45:41 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

To: Esperanto >INTERNET:esperanto@rand.org

Dato: 920827

Ken Miner levas interesan demandon:

>I think we have the same problem with other Esperanto roots which have
>an inherent category.  Consider _virga_ 'virgin (adj)'.  We have in PV
>_virga_, _virgulino_, _virgeco_, _malvirgigi_; but what is _virgo_?
>It seems to me this question is parallel to: What is _bahao_?

>Gramatikemuloj: cxu ni ne taksu la aferon egala al demando pri la
>signifo de la radiko mem, kiam al gxi apartenas *esenca* kategoria
>valoro (adjektiveco, (mal)transitiveco, ktp.)?

Sed efektive ne estas problemo. "Virgo" estas vorto kun signifo 
paralela kun tiu de "rugxo" aux "bluo", aliaj vortoj, kiuj devenas 
de radikoj adjektivecaj. "La ondlongo de rugxo estas pli granda 
ol tiu de bluo." Simple, ni kutime ne uzas vortojn kiel "virgo" 
kaj "grando" en Esperanto cxar ilia distingigxo de "virgeco" kaj 
"grandeco" ne havas paralelon en almenaux la angla lingvo; 
aliflanke, ni pli facile povas uzi "rugxo" apud "rugxeco" cxar ni 
bone konas la malsamecon inter "(the color) red" kaj "redness". 

La diferencon oni montru per la jenaj ekzemploj:

"Virgo estas trotaksata afero" (Virginity is an overrated matter).

Kaj, por kontrasti, per tute elpensita kaj fantazia ekzemplo:

"Estis la virgeco de la koredevena junulino, kiu tiel forte 
allogis la 56-jaran aktoron kaj regxisoron W.A." (ne William 
Auld!) (It was the virginity of the young Korean girl which 
so strongly attracted the 56-year-old actor and director W.A.)

Rimarku, ke "virginity" ne havas la saman signifon en la du 
anglalingvaj esprimoj: en la unua gxi estas abstrakta kvalito; en 
la dua gxi estas difinita trajto de io aux iu. Fakte, mi (kiam mi 
rememoras) uzas la -EC- formon de tiaj vortoj, kiam oni povas 
sekvigi gxin per DE-esprimo, kaj la simplan O-formon, kiam 
tio ne eblas. (Sed mi ne cxiam rememoras; ankaux mi estas 
denaska anglalingvano.)

-- 
********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*       -God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+

=============================================
Don HARLOW                                Redaktoro Esperanto U.S.A.
tel. (1 510) 222 0187
CompuServe [72627,2647]
Internet 72627.2647@compuserve.com

"To discipline Esperantists is to eat soup with chopsticks."
                                                          Confucius
=============================================
From: 72627.2647@compuserve.com (Don HARLOW)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Slumber Party Blues
Date: 3 Sep 92 05:51:01 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

To: Esperanto >INTERNET:esperanto@rand.org

Dato: 920902

(Was: Re: Recruiting Esperantistojn)

Mike Urban comments on B. Robert Helms on client- vs. server-
initiative. I'll probably have my own comment tomorrow night, 
when I'm awake. But one passage of Mike's deserves some note ...

>It is
>not at all clear that there is enough of a movement in the U.S. at
>present to handle a really huge surge of interest in Esperanto.
>Suppose Bart Simpson took up Esperanto one week (`Ne nasku bovon,
>ulo!'), and a hundred thousand people decided to write to ELNA for
>information, or to learn the language, or whatever. 

Anybody see the five-line blurb about Esperanto in the September issue 
of "Seventeen" magazine? It gave the ELNA 800-number, and resulted 
in more than 1,000 calls to the ELNA office for information during the 
first half of August. Sending out those 1,000 letters was hard enough 
for the two guys who work there; worse was the need to decipher the 
names and addresses given on the answering machine. (I never knew 
there were so many different accents in American English! And some 
of the callers seemed to be suffering from terminal giggles at the same 
time that they gave their vital statistics!)

Face it -- we simply aren't set up to face success.

=============================================
Don HARLOW                                Redaktoro Esperanto U.S.A.
tel. (1 510) 222 0187
CompuServe [72627,2647]
Internet 72627.2647@compuserve.com

"The support of artificial auxiliary languages such as Esperanto 
have no place in the national socialist state. Their use leads to 
a weakening of the essential values of national characteristics. 
This is why all promotion of the teaching of such languages 
should be avoided and classrooms should not be made available 
for teaching them."
                                                          Decree of the National
and 
                                                          Prussian Minister for
Science, 
                                                          Training and People's
Edu-
                                                           cation Bernhard Rust,
May 
                                                           17, 1935
(By their enemies ye shall know them.)
=============================================
From: TMI000@DE0HRZ1A.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Interlingua
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:26:44 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:50:40 MEZ

Pri Interlingua kaj Paul Andrew Denisowski: Ni awdis multajn sobrajn
argumentojn pri Interlingua. Bedawrinde s-ro Denisowski nur atentis
la pli emociajn, kiuj kompreneble estis inter la amaso da respondoj.
Krom ke mi ankaw toleras emociajn respondojn, ne estas juste,
jughi pri chiuj Esperantistoj law mem elektita subgrupo. Mi ne opinias,
ke Esperanto ghis nun ne trovis gheneralan akceptitecon pro malghusta
konduto de iuj Esperantistoj. - Mi mem legis Interlingua-revuon antaw
kelkaj jaroj. Kvankam mi lernis la Latinan kaj Esperanton, mi ne multe
pli komprenis ol en skribita Franca teksto.
=====================================================================
Rudolf Fischer, universitato de Essen/Germanujo
*** nova *** retkodo: tmi000 at vm.hrz.uni-essen.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Subject: Re: Rick Harrison on Esperanto
Reply-To: pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Pierre Jelenc)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:08:49 GMT

In article <9208251112.AA07702@sbusol.rz.uni-sb.de> dfkihueg@RZ.UNI-SB.DE ("Edmund Grimley-Evans") writes:
>
>(Kial mi mencias tion? ^Car la gramatika rolo de prepozicio estas tute
>simila al la gramatika rolo de akuzativa fina^jo. Mi ne komprenas, kial
>akuzativo estas pli malfacila ol prepozicio. ^Cu estas pli facile uzi
>gramatikan anta^ua^jon ol gramatikan posta^jon por montri gramatikajn
>rolojn? Kion opinias pri tio la japanoj, kies lingvo regule uzas
>postsekvantajn vortetojn por montri la gramatikan rolon? ^Cu la
>problemon ka^uzas escepta postmeta^jo en ^generale prepozicia lingvo?
>^Cu iu konas nacian lingvon kun simila trajto? Estas interese, ke en la
>germana oni preska^u ^ciam ekscias la kazon per la artikolo, kiu
>*anta^uas* la substantivon, kvankam kelkaj (malmultaj) substantivoj
>kapablas montri la diferencon inter nominativo kaj akuzativo per sia
>fina^jo...)
La rusa kaj la finna uzas finaj^ojn por montri gramatikajn rilatojn,
kaj la rusa ne havas artikolojn. Mi ne certas pri la finna, sed mi
opinias ke g^i ankau` ne uzas artikolojn.

Pierre



Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York
From: JLIECHTY@UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Jon Liechty)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Pli da Me...dicin'
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:06:15 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet

Because I (unlike SOME people) think it's more fun to use Esperanto
than complain about it...

	Antaux kelkaj monatoj iu Frenezulo ;-) aperigis en la reto
traduko de la angla-lingva kanto "Sxejvin' Krim'".  Preciza traduko
ne estas ebla, sed la efiko de ties teksto estas multe simila al tiu
de la originala.  Sed la traduko enhavis kelkajn problemojn, kaj 
do mi reviziis gxin laux kelkaj sugestoj, kiujn amike donis S-ro
Starling.  Kompreneble, ankoraux restas problemoj, sed temas pri
popol-kanto, do tiu ne TIOM gravas.  Tiuj, kiuj legis la antauxan
version povos tamen gxui cxi tiun--mi aldonis kelkajn novajn
versojn!
			-Jon


[Rekantajxo]

Medicin',
Malsanulin',
Medikamento tuj kuracos vin.

[Strofoj]

Hieraux mi perdis sxlosilon;
Ho, kiom min gxenis la perd'!
Finfine la sercxo sukcesis:
Trovigxis sub aro da ...

Nu, jen kelkaj kompaniegoj
Koncernas sin nun pri la ter';
Reklamas natur-protektadon,
Forjxetante ecx pli da...

Glaciajxon mi volis acxeti,
Enposxe nek restis moner'.
Mi petis ekzemplan gusteton,
Kaj gajnis kuleron da ...

Pakajxo de tre fora lando
Alvenis en granda kovert'.
Sed kiam mi gxin sxir-malfermis,
Mi trovis nur aron da ...

Vi sendis dum l'amanto-tago
Donacon kun bela leter'.
Atendis mi cxokoladetojn;
Vi sendis skatolon da...

Somere por malplivarmigxi,
Mi nagxis al trans la river',
Sed glutis busx-plenon da akvo--
Gxi gustis simile al ...

[  Kaj jen tri pliaj versoj, verkitaj de S-ro Gxan Starling:  ]

Ekfalis bebin' el fenestro
Rapide teren tra l' aer'
Bon^sance sub ^si tiam pasis
Grandega vagono da...
 
Idisto morti^gis hiera^u,
Trovante sin tuj ^ce infer',
Kun lipoj por ^ciam fermitaj
kaj bu^so plenplena de...
 
Artist' memorante De Beaufront
Decidis honori lin per
Statuo plej dece farita.
Li skulptis ^gin tute el...

[[[[[[ Kaj, dum ni traktas la temon...   ]]]

"Esperanto ja ne povas vivi!"
Jen kelkaj klacxadas pri l' verd'.
Se vi nian lingvon malamas,
Nur mangxu peceton da...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP (Rick Harrison)
Subject: Re: Interlingua
Reply-To: bbs-hrick@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 05:16:58 GMT

the person who was asked for information and a sample of
interlingua didn't reply, so I'm filling in.  First let's
make it clear that we're talking about Interlingua by
Alexander Gode, an on-going project, not Interlingua a.k.a.
Latino sine flexione by Giuseppe Peano which appears to be
defunct.  

Interlingua has at least 2 magazines going; Lingua e Vita,
3 times a year, and Panorama, bimonthly.  They have just
prepared an 8-part postal course to teach people the
language.  A contact address (I don't know if it's still
current) is: union Mundial pro Interlingua, 496-A Hudson
Street #G34, New York NY 10014 USA.

Text specimen (written by Gode): Io mantene que le idea de
un lingua commun pro tote le humanitate, secundo la
definition usual, es un conception false, e al plus solo
utile a exponer, quasi in un museo, como exemplo de un
certe typo de aberration intellectual...

================================================================
Rick Harrison     
hrick@genesis.nred.ma.us / peora.sdc.ccur.com!jwt!bbs-hrick 
Journal of Planned Languages, Box 54-7014, Orlando FL 32854 USA
 
``All grammars contain a great deal that is contrary to what we
would regard as the `sensible' ways of organizing experience,
and it would be a mistake to believe that any language is
particularly logical.''
                  -from _The ABC's of Languages and Linguistics_
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary)
Subject: HARLOW? HARLOW? Phone must be broken.
Reply-To: gmcquary@Ingres.COM (George F. McQuary)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: net
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:21:20 GMT

In soc.culture.esperanto, Don 'Yell my last name' HARLOW sigs
over and over again:

>
>=============================================
>Don HARLOW                                Redaktoro Esperanto U.S.A.
>tel. (1 510) 222 0187
>CompuServe [72627,2647]
>Internet 72627.2647@compuserve.com
>
>"The support of artificial auxiliary languages such as Esperanto 
>has no place in the national socialist state. Their use leads to 
>a weakening of the essential values of national characteristics. 
>This is why all promotion of the teaching of such languages 
>should be avoided and classrooms should not be made available 
>for teaching them."
>                                                          Decree of the National
>and 
>                                                          Prussian Minister for
>Science, 
>                                                          Training and People's
>Edu-
>                                                           cation Bernhard Rust,
>May 
>                                                           17, 1935, The Third
>eeich
>(By their enemies ye shall know them.)
>=============================================

I'm in a traditionalist mood, so to the old style...

A 2 to 1 (24 to 12) sig to text ratio          10 pts
More white space than you can shake a stick at  5 pts
Sig larger than followup                        5 pts
Nice tab damage                                 1 pt
Inability to summarize                          1 pt
'The third... eeich?'                          bonus!
Like we really care about 1935                  5 pts
                          
Adding up to 28 pts on the ST00PID meter.

Mr HARLOW! CAN YOU HEAR ME Mr HARLOW? Please clean up your mess!


--
George F. McQuary 
"He is mad, bad and dangerous to know." -Lady Caroline Lamb
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: derek@triton.unm.edu (Derek Stearns Roff)
Subject: Re: Recruiting Esperantistojn
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 04:06:19 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: inet

While new ideas are welcome and important, we need some perspective
on the relative costs and benefits of mass marketing.  I offer
three anecdotes:

Did you all notice a big upsurge in the study/use/visability
of German in the United States during the years 1985-1988?  
I didn't either, but during that period, the German government
got worried about the decline of interest in German in this
country (USA), mainly at the university level, and launched 
a major campaign of publicity, scholarships, and support.  
Except to read that it was happening in an education magazine, I
didn't see a thing, and I work in a university language department!
This cost them millions, and probably had some good results, but
the "mass" impact was nil.  Someone "calculated" that they spent
more on marketing German in the USA during two years than all
the Esperantists have had to spend on all Esperanto activities
during the hundred plus years of the language's existence.  The 
unification of Germany did more to stimulate interest in the language
than all there advertising.  Now how could WE arrange that kind of
a media event?

My marketing classes tell me that a 2% response to a catalog mailing
is good, and four percent is outstanding.  This is when you rent
a mailing list from a similar organization, and offer a variety of
products, which will make people's lives better.  It is unlikely
that we could target our audience that well, nor can we offer much
of a variety of services, nor is the direct, short-term life-enhancement 
potential of starting to study Esperanto by correspondence 
as high as, say, buying a Bart Simpson sweatshirt.  We would be lucky
to get something out for a buck a piece, including postage, labor,
and printing.  Could we get 10% of what the catalog people expect?
If so, we could recriut two new people for only $1000.

Finally, let me reiterate the comments (Mike's? Don's?) about the lack
of human resources.  Everything we think of doing takes a doer,
and most all of ours are already overcommitted.  Plus, we need
competant publicists.  Well-meaning fools have spread much erroneous
information, which has hurt our cause.  It's most embarrassing when
one of those fools turns out to be you, a few years ago, when 
enthusiasm ran higher than experience (I have a file of all my
publicity attempts.  I try to hide it even from myself.)  

More money and more people carrying out intelligent, innovative
publicity campaigns are needed.  Further gloom and a few of
my ideas will be posted tomorrow.

derek
derek@triton.unm.edu
From: pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Du demandoj pri UEA!!!
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:05:06 GMT

Saluton!!!

  Mi tute ne scias la vortojn, kiujn mi bezonas cxi tie uzi, sed me provas.
  Malantaue estas angla tradukon de tio, kion mi volis diri.

  Mi havas du demandojn, kaj ambaux temas pri UEA:

1)  Mi auxdis, kaj en cxi tiu novajxgrupo estis iam parolado (conversation?),
    pri la "account" sistemo de UEA.  Cxu oni eblas enmeti monon en sia
    "account" per dolaroj, kaj elpreni gxin per Finna markoj?  Cxu
    tiu servo kostas multe da mono aux cxu gxi estas senkosta?

2)  Mia edzino kaj mi estas en la Pasporta Servo kiel gastigistoj. (?)  Ni
    ne (ankoraux) estas membrojn de UEA, sed ni auxdis, ke gxenerale UEA
    sendas la Pasportan Servon al cxiuj, kies nomoj aperas en gxi.  Kvankam
    ni versxajne *ne* vojagxos nenien, ni volus havigi la libron.  Al kiu
    mi devas skribi pri tion?

  I have two questions, both of which concern the UEA:

1)  I have heard, and there has been discussion of it here, as well, 
    about the "account" system of the UEA.  Is it possible to deposit
    money into one's account as dollars, and withdraw it as Finnish
    marks?  Does this service cost much or is it free?

2)  My wife and I are registered in the Pasporta Servo as hosts.  We
    don't belong to the UEA (yet), but I heard that normally the UEA
    sends a copy of the Pasporta Servo to everyone who appears in it.
    Although we probably will *not* be travelling anywhere, we would
    like to get a copy of the book.  Who should I write to about it?


Multajn dankojn!

--Pauxlo Bruno
pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
From: liuz@civil.uq.oz.au (Zhen Liu)
Subject: Re:test 
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Distribution: inet
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:53:23 GMT

this is test
From: hottasan@ho.shs.sumiden.co.jp (HOTTA Hirohiko)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re:
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:32:13 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: The Internet


** 1992-8-28-15:24, .@efi.com  :
>Message-Id: <9208282224.AA13546@efi.com>
>From: .@efi.com
>Sender: .@efi.com
>Subject: Re:
	...
>						leganto

Chu anonima poshto estas permesata en Internet?
Au simpla fush-registro?
--
HOTTA Hirohiko

Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto