HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Swimming back with your gear
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:41:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.083219@wsl.dec.com> mohanram@wsl.dec.com (Narayan Mohanram) writes:
>Yesturday after swimming for an hour at cyote, I was wondering what was the
>best way to swim your equipment back. The wind died about 3/4 mile out, and 
>I was faced with a long swim. I tried putting the sail on the back of the
>board and lying on it and paddling. The board however kept turning parallel
>to the direction of the swells (which is not the direction I wanted to go).
>I ended up doing the old backstroke with the rig in tow. Is this the best
>method. Are there more experienced swimmers out there? 

My method is to get behind the board, balance the rig on the tail out
of the water, and then holding the booms, kick home.  It's slow but
steady.  I don't know how it will behave with swells.
>
>I was also told that dumping your rig when you are really in trouble will
>help. At what time do you determine it is time to dump your rig?

When the value of your life insurance policy multiplied by the
probability of your death exceeds the value of your rig, consider
calling your life insurance agent for a review.  Or dump the rig and
paddle like your life depends on it.

I can only forsee dumping my rig when the conditions are extreme.  If
you have an overwhelming offshore wind and you can make headway
across the wind to shelter IF you dumped, then you should dump.  If
you can't make headway regardless, the sail may be better as a sea
anchor.  A wind blowing you into a towering seawall with an incoming
tide might make you think of dumping also.  Use your judgement and
adrenaline level.

-andy





Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: aep@MV3600.BMEN.TULANE.EDU
Subject: Louisian Gulf Coast sites??
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-27637]: mv3600.bmen.tulane.edu
Reply-To: aep@MV3600.BMEN.TULANE.EDU
Organization: TULANE, BMEN, NEW ORLEANS, LA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 21:28:00 GMT

Hello-

I just moved to New Orleans and there is water everywhere, quite a change
from Salt Lake City. At any rate, I've been looking for sites and everyone
I have talked to (non-sailors) says Lake Pontchartrain is pretty foul.
Is there anyone out there who sails this area and knows where I can sail
waves or lake chop without exposing myself to nastiness? Please feel free
to contact me at pollard@aepbme.bmen.tulane.edu.

Thanks in advance...Andy Pollard

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: ngs@sailor.bellcore.com (Ned Stoffel 21374)
Subject: Advice needed on Alpha 282
Reply-To: ngs@bellcore.com
Organization: Network Technology Research Lab, Bellcore
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 11:31:28 GMT

I am considering replacing my badly abused Seatrend 9'1" with
a Alpha 282 for $450. (This will be my 6th board purchase, and 
I am  tired of spending big bucks on boards that can't hold up
for more than two years.) The word I have is that the Alpha is
slow, but a great handling board that is virtually 
indestructible. Any comments? Will the performance be a big
step down? My Seatrend now contains about 8-10 pounds of repairs
and reenforcements, so the Alpha will seem light to me.

I am also worried about driver comfort, especially foot position.
I have a 78" wingspan, so I tend to be leaning way out over the
water. The sloped deck of the Seatrend really helps relieve the
stress on my ankles when I am hiked out. 

Thanks in advance.

Ned
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:45:33 GMT

felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral) writes:

>Sorry Chad but you and David are both correct. In racing you are REQUIRED to
>yell your right of way. If a collision occurs and you don't yell you
>most likely will loose the protest.

This is simply not true.  I have won many protests involving
collisions with no yelling (at least not any before the collision :-).
Good protest committees will be interested in the maneuvers that took
place, not the yelling.

>However, in real life yelling is NOT required but its recommended in case
>the other sailor does'nt see you or does'nt know what the heck is going on.

Agreed.
--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
From: clw@sante.corp.sgi.com (Cathy L. Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Wanted Bay Area location Recommendations
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:05:30 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Apologize if this has previously been posted.  I would like a list of the
best places to windsurf in the Bay Area by skill level required.  Will
summarize for this newsgroup if you send directly to me.  Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:27:30 GMT

In article <thompson.715448733@daphne.socsci.umn.edu> thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu writes:
>felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral) writes:
>
>>Sorry Chad but you and David are both correct. In racing you are REQUIRED to
>>yell your right of way. If a collision occurs and you don't yell you
>>most likely will loose the protest.
>
>This is simply not true.  I have won many protests involving
>collisions with no yelling (at least not any before the collision :-).
>Good protest committees will be interested in the maneuvers that took
>place, not the yelling.
>

I thought about this after I wrote it. It came to mind that it really is
dependent on the committee. During one protest which I overheard the
committee was concerned whether the starboard and port sailors yelled
out their positions (eg "starboard", "hold your course"). If they did not,
then they were out of it. However, it is not a mandatory rule from what I've 
seen in the IYRU. At least not for that situation.

I guess the moral is, the committe rules whether they are wrong or right with
regards to the IYRU regulations.

>>However, in real life yelling is NOT required but its recommended in case
>>the other sailor does'nt see you or does'nt know what the heck is going on.
>
>Agreed.

-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Lifejackets while windsurfing
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:35:09 GMT
Organization: Mail Group


In article <price.714834751@helios>, price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price) writes:
|> For me, the simple fact is that with a jacket on, I become a less competent and
|> far slower swimmer.. It just plain gets in the way. Without a jacket, I have a
|> chance of catching a runaway board, with a jacket on, I have to wait until the
|> board slows down.
|> 
|> my $0.02

I think you need to be careful with the kinds of conclusions you draw from 
that kind of reasoning.  Conclude sailing without a jacket is more
convenient.  Don't conclude that sailing without a jacket is safer.

If you are a good swimmer, you are eventually going to catch up to the
board, with or without the jacket on.  As a worst case, if you lose
the board, you are going to spend a few hours in the water swimming to shore,
but you have something to keep you floating when you get tired.

Now, examine alternatives without the jacket on: if you get hit hard on
the head and knocked unconscious, without the jacket, then you die.  If
you get pulled offshore by an ebb tide, or if you have to spend the
night on the water, you are eventually either going to fall asleep or
become exhausted.  In either case, without the jacket, then you die.
To me, those are much worse worst cases than any reasonable scenario when 
you are wearing the jacket.  

PLEASE, LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT WAVE SAILING.  That's a special case, and my
comments above only apply to sailing on the open ocean, a bay, a lake, etc.

The fact is that if you don't wear a lifejacket, you do so for reasons of
comfort or personal preference.  And you have made some decision that the
worst case scenario just isn't going to happen to you.  Fine.  But, wave
sailing excepted, I have a really hard time believing any argument that says
you are safer without a jacket than with one. 

-- 
Thanks,
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
From: fabian@sun.uakom.cs (Karol Fabian)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Damage on carbon mast
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:20:10 GMT
X-Unparsable-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 15:19:01 MET DST

Hi sailors,
I would like to ask if someone knows how to save my
carbon mast. After one season I have noticed that cambers
in my Speed Slalom F2 sail have made rings around the
mast. It's not deep, but I have wittnessed break
of the carbon mast beacause of that. How to prevent this ?
Regards/Karol
-------------------------------------------------------------
Karol Fabian, Distributed Systems Group
Institute of Automation and Communication /UAKOM/
Slovak Academy of Sciences , Severna 5
974 01 Banska Bystrica  Czechoslovakia
Tel.: +42-88-53207      internet: Karol.Fabian@uakom.cs
Fax : +42-88-52364      bitnet  : FABIAN@CSBBYS51.bitnet
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: alien@boi.hp.com (Tom von Alten)
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:31:28 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Rule #1:  All sailors have a positive duty to avoid collision.

If everyone understood this one, all the rest would be a lot easier to work
with, eh?
_____________
Tom von Alten           email: alien@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
                        Hewlett-Packard Disk Memory Division
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: srgxnbs@grv (Bruce Spedding)
Subject: Re: Looking for a Wind Talker
Reply-To: srgxnbs@grv
Organization: DSIR, Lower Hutt, New Zealand.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 03:25:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.021052.5699@leland.Stanford.EDU>, wolf@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andy Wolfsberg) writes:
>In article <jeffb.1bdm@terapin.com> jeffb@terapin.com (Jeffrey Bean) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug21.161623.20514@engage.pko.dec.com>, stu@otop23.oto.dec.com
>>(Stuart MacKay) writes:
>>>
>>>Hi folks,
>>>
>>>I am looking for the possibility of installing a device which can read the
>>>current wind speed and direction that I could phone into and it could tell
>>>me what is happening.
>>>
>>>The local weather office is less than useless.
>>>
>>>Apparently, there are devices in San Francisco called a Wind Talker.  This
>>>appears to do exactly what I want however, I have no idea where or who to 
>>>talk to about it. 
>>>
>>>Any leads?
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Stu MacKay
>>>Ottawa, Canada
>>
>>    Try Radio Shack, pal.
>
>Or, call the Saint Francis Yacht Club in S.F. and ask them where they got
>their's.  I have a feeling that the costs associated with buying and operating
>a wind-talker are not trivial.
>Andy
>

About NZ$2000 / US$950 when I enquired  (1990)

Bruce

Bruce Spedding
Materials Science and Performance
Industrial Research Ltd,     Fax: +64-4-569-0132
P.O.Box 31310,              Work: +64-4-569-0485
Lower Hutt,  ( NZST : +12 ) Home: +64-4-562-8522
New Zealand.  Internet: srgxnbs@grv.grace.cri.nz
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Multi-Sail (two sails in one) recommendation ?
From: dphillip@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:07:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <p80h34k@fido.asd.sgi.com> alain@sgi.com writes:
>
>I have seen in the back of Windsurfing magazine (in the equipment
>marketplace section) a company advertise some new sails called
>Multi-Sail.  Those sails have a zipper at the bottomn of the sail which
>lets you reduce the sail by a full size, so one sail is equivalent to 2
>regular sails. Those mono-film sails have 3 cams and seem really nice. I
>really like the idea, the convenience when you need to change sizes and the
>reduced cost (need to buy 1/2 as many sails).
>
>As anybofy bought any of those sails ?
>Would you recommend them ?
>

I've been very happy with the two Multi-Sails that I bought in the spring of
1990.  They are the 1989 "Series II" model with 3 external cambers.  The sizes
are 7.2/6.4 and 5.7/5.0 square meters.  I checked my records and found that to
date I have used the 7.2/6.4 on 158 different days and the 5.7/5.0 on 186 days.
Virtually all of this use was in fresh water (7.2/6.4: 99% fresh water; 
5.7/5.0: 94% fresh water).  

The only "problems" that I've had is the batten on the top camber has worn out
on both of the sails after approximately 140 days of use, and the monofilm has
got quite stained with mineral deposits and/or scratches so that lately I've
had difficulty seeing through them.  Other than these minor troubles, they
still hold their shape as well as when they were new.

As far as their performance is concerned, they are very fast and easy to
control.  I've had no trouble keeping up with (or even passing) friends
sailing top-of-the-line Neil Prydes and Norths.

Dan Phillips
internet: dphillip@nemesis.calpoly.edu
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Report
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:41:59 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Mail Group


In article <3839@wyse.wyse.com>, jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
|> In the parking lot, we had a discussion about what a great season it's been.
|> Surprisingly I found myself in the minority who thought it had been a great season.
|> The rest thought it sucked.

Really?  I don't know how others feel, but I think this was the best
season in the last three years.  I only got out about 15 times,
but I had four 4.0 days, four 4.5 days, three 5.0 days, and four 5.5 days.
I only got skunked twice.  I have lost count of the number of 5.5 or
better days that Coyote has had just in the last 30 days.

I have had awesome days at San Luis Reservoir, Rio Vista, Coyote,
Santa Cruz, and Berkeley.  But the key to finding good wind is
looking.  If you invest the time to learn a little about weather, you can
usually find wind someplace: at the coast, on the bay, or inland.

I always wonder about people who go to just one site and then sit there in
dead calm praying for wind.  If you are there for social reasons, that's
okay, but as a way to find the wind and do some windsurfing, I can't recommend
the method!

--
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: westes@netcom.com
From: alien@boi.hp.com (Tom von Alten)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Discount on Northwave Sails...
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:33:49 GMT
Distribution: rec.windsurfing
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal) writes:
: >
: >    The Gorge sailmaker Northwave is offering discounts of up to 25%
: >on orders of 4 or more custom sails.
: 
: I was wondering when the "Most Expensive Line Of Windsurfing Sails"
: would be going on sail at *reasonable* prices.  <;^)

So just how much are these babies going for, at 100% and 75%?
When I priced them some years back (at the end of a season when everybody
else was reducing prices and they weren't), they were already too spendy for
me.
_____________
Tom von Alten           email: alien@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
                        Hewlett-Packard Disk Memory Division
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans)
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  3 Sep 92 15:28:52 GMT

mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.193624.19749@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
>kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>
>> Maybe rec.scouting should be split into several unmoderated
>> newsgroups.

>I must strongly object.  First you (as a group) invade their newsgroup,
>then rather than buggering off when asked, you propose to *split* it so
>you can keep posting to it?  This is completely inappropriate.

>I have yet to hear someone from rec.scouting actually indicate that
>they want to read this tripe.

For the record, since my login appears in your cross-reference list,
I am responding to this by posting.
I subscribe to rec.scouting only, and did so from day 1.
I was a pack committee chairperson last year, and later cubmaster.
Now I've been asked to help organize a boy scout troop associated
with the pack.  While I expect that BSA does not have sufficient
government entanglements so that it can be prevented from discriminating,
I'd personally like to see it change its policy to be more open.
I feel about the same way as I would have, say, 10 years ago in
an all-male professional social club: not part of the excluded
group, but generally sympathetic to its concerns (if not always
to its methods).

People in positions of responsibility in scouting
will inevitably have to deal with these issues, and it does not hurt
them to be informed about the arguments on both sides.  I'm very
curious about whether, if this bulletin board splits, whether the
people who have argued most stridently to boot off the political
debate will be able to keep from participating in it.

Chris Evans
jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:13:09 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
| What antisocial consequences are there to discrimination against atheists
| (or gays, for that matter) that are not of the same magnitude as those of
| discrimination against Jews or blacks?  It would seem, on the face of it, that
| the consequences are identical.

On the face of it, they are completely different due to the 
ability of a bigot to recognize, on sight, a member of the group
they are discriminating against. The two have vastly different
implications.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:48:04 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <palane.714626172@pv7426.vincent.iastate.edu> palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:
>
>I don't support this requirement of the scouts. However, morally straight
>should also disclude sexually active heterosexual boy scouts.

      Boy, it's going to be awfully quiet at camp...

					-Phil




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug28.180542.29698@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:10:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

> ...

>   Clearly, the gay rights agenda, as I understand it, is that sexual
>   preference should not matter in anything, as such behavior is
>   perfectly normal and thus should not be labelled as immoral. Fine,
>   but that's only one point of view; another point of view is that our
>   religions teach us that we can control our behavior, that we are above
>   our animal instincts, and that there are certain things that God
>   expects from us.  

If you're not gay, your opinion about "controlling one's behavior" is
really irrelevent, because you're obviously clueless about what it
means to be gay.

>   Now, these two points are going to clash in religious
>   based organizations, such as BSA as well as in church or synagogue youth
>   groups.  I mean, in the same way that I would not want any adult leader
>   in my son's Boy Scout Troop to live an openly immoral lifestyle 
                                           ~~~~~~ 
So you're into that privacy thing?  So it's okay for us to be
*privately* "immoral"?  Personally, I feel imposing one's bigotries
upon one's children is DAMNED immoral, but I guess by speaking out
about that I'm interfering on parental perogative, right?

>   (and
>   this also includes "sleeping around"), because there is no way that I'd
>   want teenage boys to be given the impression that such behavior is
>   "correct", I would also expect heavy parental resistance to a synagogue
>   youth group leader who is married to a non-Jew (as such marriages are
>   prohibited by traditional Jewish law), or to my wanting to be a youth
>   group leader at the local church.
 
My big question: what message does this send to gay teens?  Many gay
teens already know that they're gay, nothing "correct" about it.

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"now we find sodom strange take it out put it in your mouth how do you like
gomorrah now a taste of this swallow that feel the fish hide the hat ezekial
where's your wheel you better grease it GREASE GREASE GREASE GREASE! ROCK!!!"
       --Chainsaw Kittens, "Ezekial Walks Through Sodom and Gomorrah"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
From: dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie)
Subject: Re: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:46:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.142510.26298@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>Not so. Their legal right is not being challenged, only their moral
>right to be the only organziation to violate the United Way charter
>and still get funds.
>
>The Catholic Church does not expect money from the United Way for
>programs exclude people because of their religious belief. The
>ramifications for other private groups should the BSA lose is that
>their will be a bigger share of United Way money available for
>programs that do not violate the United Way charter.
>
I stand corrected.  Also, My posting was in response to Carl's posting
to rec.scouting.  When I posted a reply I was not aware that it was also
on soc.motss.  To those of you who have E-mailed me about "cluttering up
soc.motss my apologies.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Paul Fabie                   * "Remember! Editors never reject.  We
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee  *  merely select." - David Kirby
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality