HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msanghvi@taurus.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi)
Subject: Re: Do you know why you are here...........?
Reply-To: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: /usr/ug/1993/msanghvi/.organization
	<1jeougINNkc@menudo.uh.edu>
	<1993Jan18.191400.12076@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:33:49 GMT


>>>>> "Amirthi" == Kateri/Mary Anne <moh2@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:

Amirthi> In article <1jeougINNkc@menudo.uh.edu> mba2@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>>
>> - Amirthi
>>(who's writing her thesis on science fiction....how many of you had
>>such fun topics? :-)
>>
>P.	Defintly cool.  Being an SF fan, may I inquire which authors or
>	topics?

Amirthi> Remember, you asked!
Amirthi> Probably concentrating on Chip Delany, but here's the complete
Amirthi> reference list....

Amirthi> *****


Amirthi> Herbert Frank (SF)
Amirthi> 	God Emperor of Dune (lesbians in the army ?)


From what i remember off-hand there was no suggestion of lebians in the army.
Leto's reasoning is that an army composed entirely of women is a much more
responsible army then an army of men ( who are more adolescent in nature and
therfore less responsible ).  also women make an even more responsible after
having borne children.  


its been a few months since i last read the Dune series (for the zillionth
time) but i'll try and look into it again and make sure.  



increase the peace



--
===============================================================================
Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi        |  UMass-Lowell Dept. of Computer Science
Inet: msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu      |  SnailNet: 754 Aiken St. #11
UUCP: ...!harvard!ulowell!msanghvi |            Lowell, MA 01850-1804
BITNET: msanghvi%cs.ulowell.edu@{cunyvm.cuny, mitvma.mit, talcott.harvard}.edu

"However," replied the Universe, "the fact has not created in me a
sense of obligation."
		-- Stephen Crane
A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta)
Subject: Re: "Indians writing in English" book list
Reply-To: smehta@nynexst.com
Organization: Speech Technology, AI Lab, NYNEX S&T Inc, White Plains, NY
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:56:39


> pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap) writes:

> This is a great reading list! 

I'd agree with that.

However, some missing authors:

Sunetra Gupta is missing. Here's the only book I own but she has
written another earlier volume.

  Sunetra Gupta - Memories Of Rain  
  Grove Weidenfeld, New York, 1992
  ISBN 0-8021-1448-2

I'm in the middle of this book so comments will follow (hopefully
soon :).  I'm particularly interested in her writing given that she's
one of only Indian authors younger than I am :-) and originating from
Calcutta.

Also missing:

 * Faroukh Dhondy (sp?) author of Bombay Duck; still on my reading
   stack :-(

 * Upamanyu Chatterji author of the hilariously scatological novel
   English August (Rupa & Co. 1988 or Faber & Faber 1990). An IAS
   officer with a degree in English from Yale can be funny :-)

Vikram Seth nitpicks:

>      2.  From Heavenly Lake

Actually called from From Heaven's Lake. This is not fiction but a
fascinating travelogue.

>      3.  The Humble Administrator's Garden
>      4.  All You Who Sleep Tonight  

Both these are volumes of poetry. I haven't read the first. The
second is cute but gets boring quickly.

I might have some more updates after I check @ home.

/sandeep
--
smehta@nynexst.com
--
        "This space of time is organized. We need not fear these
	 silences, -- we may love them." -- John Cage, Silences, 1961.
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Mixed Marriages
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:39:47 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

In article <1993Jan27.133811.6518@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
>In article <93026.232558RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> Radhakrishna Reddy <RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>>Get real the only reason that I-A's identify with whites is that the
>>culture here is white.  So whenever they step out the door almost all they
>>see is white.  Also we're not stupid, if you are accepted as a psuedo-white
>>then why identify with group that is actively discriminated against (namely

   Actually, believe it or not, there is also  a black culture here. South 
Asians from the Caribbean who then come to the US find it quite easy, I notice, 
to identify with it. However, in the Caribbean itself, there appears to be 
some cultural  and racial segregation amongst  South Asians and Africans. 

Another argument I sometimes hear against identifying too strongly with 
American blacks is that one may then end up with the baggage of slavery, 
a general defeatist attitude, etc etc, to say nothing of possibly also 
picking up by osmosis other pathologies afflicting inner-city blacks. In this 
respect I find the Carribbean blacks in the US to have struck a good balance.

>Indians see themselves whiter than they are and whites see them darker than
>they are. 
>
 I once read that the 'test of whiteness' was whether there was any 'blood in 
your face' - that is, whether you could blush. On a very cold and windy day 
in Baltimore, I once had the experience of being 'white', when the cold and 
wind blanched my face, and then turned it rubicund.  I distinctly remember 
being treated differently in all the stores I walked in that day !

  Satyen
-- 
   "History is not high mystery for high priestly historians"
                       John Charmley, Lecturer in History,
                      University of East Anglia at Norwich
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: pras0005@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Loyalty to Who (was Dissension...)
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:50:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.201832.28488@news.vanderbilt.edu> MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu () writes:
>        I received some very thought-provoking comments the other day, and
>I believe that they deserve further scrutiny.  I hope that others will provide
>input on this topic, not so much about specific international issues, but about
>the larger question: Where should our loyalties lie?
>
>In <C19FpC.3C@rice.edu> vijaypai@owlnet.rice.edu writes:
>
>> Any Indian who would support Republicans is a Pakistani in disguise.
>> The Republicans have been overwhelmingly pro-Pak and anti-Indian
>> in their terms in government...[more politics, deleted]...
>
So let's see... Jews traditionally vote Democrat, Jews support Israel, if 
you as an Indian vote for a democrat, you support the disenfranchisement of
Palestineans living in the occupied territories.  That in keeping with the
twisted logic, isn't it?

>> So, if you want to support bigots and Pakistanis, that's fine by me,
>> but you'll be responsible when some Christian fanatic wins the
>> Presidency here or when Kashmir and Punjab are taken away from
>> the motherland.

Now both democrats and republicans have supported the Mujahadeen in 
Afghanistan.  So when those weapons are used in Pakistan's annexation
of Kashmir and Punjab as this person so Nostradamically predicts, which
party will we blame?
>
>
>	I don't make my voting decisions based on the candidate's attitudes
>toward India, and I think that if you're a citizen or resident of the US, then
>your first loyalty must be to THIS nation.  
>
B
I emphatically, totally, and overwhelmingly agree. 

>	By the way, I don't buy your anti-Republican argument.  I know many
>Republican Indians, and also, the top Republican fundraiser in this country was
>an Indian surgeon in South Florida (I forget his name). 
>
Now this guy must be a Pakistani spy, raising money for the GOP which will
then cause (somehow) India to cede Kashmir and Punjab.  Hell, why stop there.
As long as republican Indians are giving away land, why not include UP,
Bengal and on down to Madras.  Let's see the democrats try to give all that
back.

>	If we live here, it is our duty to support the Constitution, and
>believe in the ideals of this great country, while also preserving our race and
>culture, which most of us cherish dearly.  Let's leave the petty politicking to
>the folks up in Washington and New Delhi.
>
Unfortunately the petty politicking has mired this country neck-deep in waste.
If we leave it up to them we'll get even more of the same.  Send your message
by refusing to support candidates who thrive on pettiness.

>						Maneesh



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shiv A. Prasad			"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly
pras0005@student.tc.umn.edu 	 enough scientific research to finding 
				 a cure for jerks."
								Calvin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Mixed Marriages
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:38:11 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <93026.232558RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> Radhakrishna Reddy <RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Get real the only reason that I-A's identify with whites is that the
>culture here is white.  So whenever they step out the door almost all they
>see is white.  Also we're not stupid, if you are accepted as a psuedo-white
>then why identify with group that is actively discriminated against (namely
>blacks).  I think I-A's need to wake up to the fact we are not white and
>never will be.  We should be building alliances with other minorities
>because we are in the same boat.  If we decide to isolate ourselves, we'll
>get the same results as the Koreans in L.A.  I-A's sometimes delude
>themselves into thinking that eventually white America will accept us,but
>it will not unless we force them to accept us along with other
>minorities.(Sorry I guess I got a little preachy)
>

I agree with you, Krishna. Indians along with Chinese and Japanese seem to
think they are white, or more palatable to white sensibilties. Nonetheless,
I only see Indians isolating themselves more and more until some dire
event of presecution and bigotry occurs. You only have to look to UK,
South Africa, Canada and other places to see this.

I can't remember where, but I remember reading something to the effect that
Indians see themselves whiter than they are and whites see them darker than
they are. 


Rakesh Patel
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Reply-To: smehta@nynexst.com
Organization: Speech Technology, AI Lab, NYNEX S&T Inc, White Plains, NY
	<1993Jan20.184905.13887@draco.macsch.com>
Date: 20 Jan 93 17:20:59


> dsb@godzilla.pi.macsch.com (Deepak Brar) writes:

> >, MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu () writes: 	My name's Maneesh,
>> and I can't understand for the life of me why there is not a
>> single conservative voice of reason in any of these messages. This
>> is a trend that I see in ABCD's generally, even in my home state
>> of Alabama, where a solid right-wing stance is the norm.


>> 			HAVE SOME PRIDE!!!

> Not in a country that produces fucking assholes like you!!!
> 
> JERK!
> Get a life.


Aaah, the fresh smell of napalm in the air :-) ... But then Wilde put
it best: "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
he is called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."

Maybe I'll unsub this group once again...

/sandeep
--
smehta@nynexst.com
--
        "This space of time is organized. We need not fear these
	 silences, -- we may love them." -- John Cage, Silences, 1961.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:30:45 GMT

In article <SMEHTA.93Jan22104524@kwela.nynexst.com> smehta@nynexst.com writes:
>
>However, some of us did grow up with reading tastes that went beyond
>engineering texts and by some twist of biological fate some of what
>we read stuck in our sub-conscious. I realize that it is the most
>unusual thing for us to remember these pithy words insteads of
>memorizing the latest fixed-point mortgage rates across the land.
>Forgive me, but I read The WIRE, The Nation, Option, Village VOICE
>and other such not-so-glossy trash and will be glad to quote from
>there if you like? :-)


I prefer the National Enquirer.:)


Rakesh Patel
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye)
Subject: duplicate postings
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:18:22 GMT

Is it the problem of my machine  or are all of you getting 2 copies of some
postings? 

I hate to see same thing posted again and again and no 'follow-up' lines
added either. Even if I did like Rajiv's original poem..

On another subject:
To Maneesh as in Coservative Rational Thinker (:-)) may be you should read
some Sanskrit literature in its original form. Like the play called
'Naganand' by Harsha and you will see that even in India 'race purity' was 
not a norm only a fad among few rich kings who were destroyed by their 
preoccupation of their own 'superiority' over the mankind.
If challenged heavily, the people of 'mixed-breed' become more powerful
since they are capable of drawing best of both ends. So maybe people like you
are good to have among the so called liberals.
--
--With best regards from Shashi
Login name: shashi | System Programmer By Profession | In real life:
                   | but heart(&SWEET-HEART) in Math.| Shashi Sathaye
shashi@ms.uky.edu	sysshash@ukcc.uky.edu  shashi@aix3090.uky.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: pras0005@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Hemingway, was Career choices
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:20:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.183959.18679@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>
>Why, why, oh why do people keep comparing reasonably talented writers
>to Hemingway?  Do you actually *like* his sexist,
>big-white-hunter-takes-on-the-world, incapable of writing sentences
>longer than 4 words prose?

I think your description of Hemingway was exactly what the Nobel Prize and
Pulitzer Prize committees had in mind when they awarded him those distinctions.
NOT!!

Yes, as you may guess, I am a "fan" of Hemingway.  I think the reason that
Ernie serves as a paradigm for writers may be that his writings were based on 
his own life and adventures, with Nick Adams being Ernie himself.  He also
led a rather vivid life considering his travels and experience in WWI.
Isn't that the ultimate for a writer, to describe his (her) exciting 
experiences?
>
> - Amirthi (who is loving Stein at the moment and dreading the week
>when her Modern Novel class does Hemingway...)

Shiv (who wishes he had more time to finish the Nick Adams stories, the rest
of the short stories, and The Sun Also Rises, which are currently gathering
jackets of dust on his shelf....Hmmm....maybe I should dust more often)

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu ()
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:42:30 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <YfNiB1y00iUzQ4aXRS@andrew.cmu.edu> Priti writes:

> The negative comments about interethnic dating between Indians (and
> those of Indian origin) and people of other backgrounds (white,
> african-american, latino, etc.) have been shocking, irritating, and even
> painful for me.  There is absolutely no reason why we, as Indians and
> Indian-Americans should attack the lifestyle choices that some of us
> make.  Perhaps the only thing that we all have in common is a cultural
> conflict, and perhaps that should help us tolerate each other's
> decisions (as well as culture!)-- we are certainly not alike in
> political beliefs, religion, etc.  People put a lot of thought into the
> decisions which they make.


	I'm sorry if anything that I wrote offended you.  When I started this
discussion a few days ago, I simply wanted to discuss the issue, and especially
discuss the larger, long term implications of intermarriage.  I think that
people can can discuss such things without getting emotionally involved.  If
negative things are said, they are simply ONE PERSON'S OPINION.  Some on this
net have claimed that I have "the brain of a flea," but I don't let it bother
me!  Don't take it so personally.


	I am not ashamed to say that I am personally opposed to all forms of
intermarriage.  I am not a racist; however, I believe that any community has
the right to preserve its way of life, and speak out against against trends
which may subvert the greater good.  While I think that it is in bad taste to
talk about the personal relationships of individual people (that's just gossip
- not intelligent discussion).  But I can't see anything wrong with discussing
the trend as a whole. 


        In my home state of Alabama, most people oppose intermarriage for a
variety of reasons, mostly due to old-line racist thoughts.  But what's wrong
with saying that our community won't be the same if everyone marries people
of different races?  It's not a large leap of logic to see where this will
ultimately lead.


	For me personally, if any of my children decide that they want to bring
home a boy or girl of a different race for my approval, I would absolutely
forbid such a thing.  If they disregard their culture, heritage, race, and
upbringing, and marry anyway, they will certainly no longer be a part of my
household.
	

> I respond to the series of comments with some bitterness and irritation
> because our lives (and our children's, when we have them) might be just
> a little easier if there were less hostility towards us in the Indian
> community. 
> 
> Priti

	Your kids probably won't be part of that community anyway.  And if
everyone did it, there won't even be an "Indian community."


				Sincerely,


					Maneesh
From: devkumar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Devakumar Sreevijayan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: "Indians writing in English" book list
Date: 23 Jan 1993 03:41:08 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu

In article <SMEHTA.93Jan21135639@kwela.nynexst.com> smehta@nynexst.com writes:
>
>Sunetra Gupta is missing. Here's the only book I own but she has
>written another earlier volume.
>            Sunetra Gupta - Memories Of Rain  
          
        Yes, she is indeed the latest star in this particular firmament.
I read the book, but too fast to do her justice. I have since bought the
book and plan to read it carefully again. My impressions? Well, she is
wonderfully talented, there is simply no denying that. However, talent 
has to mellow. Kirkus Reviews compared her most favorably to that earlier
exponent of the 'stream of consciousness' style: Virginia Woolf. I haven't
read Woolf, but Sunetra Gupta's prose is no stream. It is a veritable
torrent. Her words tumble and flow with breathless urgency; yet there is,
despite the attraction, a sense of the insubstantiality of the stream.
At its heart, there is an emptiness, which, despite the emptiness she
seeks to portray, rings hollow. 
       Contrast this with that other author I read the same week, Marguerite
Duras, whose gentle cadences course heavily, like the rain-swollen Mekong she
describes from her youth, with the immense weight of a remembered past, a time
and a place that live only in secret memory, and which tugs at your heart with
the turgid pull of an unknown sorrow. 
        This difference, I think, is not of talent, but of age and a depth
and rawness of experience, across a century, and across continents. Sunetra
Gupta is one author whom I look forward to reading, especially in the late
evenings of our lives. 


Dev


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
From: vijaypai@owlnet.rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai)
Subject: Re: Democrats are Indian, Republicans are Pakistani :-)
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:03:07 GMT

In article <C1F68o.DA9@news2.cis.umn.edu>, pras0005@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
|> >If those are the people you'd support then so be it. I prefer the
|> >party of people like Bill Clinton <who spoke to several Indian
|> >and Asian Democratic Organizations in his race>, NC Governor
|> >Jim Hunt <who has been meeting with Indian groups over several decades>,
|> 
|> So what about the Indian fundraiser for the GOP?  Bush MUST have spoken to him.

Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself!!! Thank you
for bashing the Republicans for me with your own
argument... If you are Indian and want to hear from the GOP,
you've gotta be a rich surgeon and donate $100,000 !!!

Hunt met with Indian grad students at NCSU and UNC while they
were still poor students, many of whom couldn't vote, and none
of whom formed a definite political voting block.

-- vp
From: venkat@scic.intel.com (Venkat Iyer)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Divorce Rate (was Dissension ...)
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:36:07 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Beaverton, OR

In article <93026.001831RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> Radhakrishna Reddy <RXR108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I am really starting to get annoyed at this 50% rate of divorce that is
>quoted everywhere I look.  My understanding is that these figures are
>reached by counting the number of divorces in a year and then comparing them
>to the number of new marriages.  So the number of divorces include the
>marriages from the previous years.  Why aren't they included in the figures?
>I mean if the divorce rate was 50-70% you would see a lot more divorced
>people running around.  The divorce rate figures have been above 20% for at
>least 10 years, yet most people I know have not had a divorce in their
>family(when I say most it is definitely over 85%).  And I am not just
>talking about people my age (17-22).  BTW, if I'm wrong, please just correct
>my mistake(I always admit when I'm wrong).
>

Actually the statistic is that more than 50% of marriages end in divorce.
But close to 75% of the people are still living with their first spouse.
I think you can reconcile these two seemingly contradictory statistics
if you realize that some people marry and divorce more than once; in
some cases several times.

-- 
      Venkat  Iyer - SCIC - Intel Corporation
From: raj@cs.bu.edu (rajagopalan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Loyalty to Who (was Dissension...)
Keywords: loyalty, dual citizenship, question
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:10:45 GMT
Followup-To: <1993Jan24.201832.28488@news.vanderbilt.edu>
Organization: Boston University Computer Science Department

In article <1993Jan24.201832.28488@news.vanderbilt.edu>, MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu writes:

>
>	I don't make my voting decisions based on the candidate's attitudes
>toward India, and I think that if you're a citizen or resident of the US, then
>your first loyalty must be to THIS nation.  
>                                 

not to digress from the main thread, i just have a tiny auxilliary question here 
which somebody can perhaps answer by email.

what is your loyalty expected to be in the case of dual citizenship? in the 
light of the recent indian government decision to allow dual citizenship with 
some countries, what would your oath of allegiance be to? in the hypothetical 
situation of a war betwwen two such countries what would be the status of dual 
citizens? just curious. 

-raj
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian