HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bashir@acsu.buffalo.edu (Noushin Bashir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: -None supplied- [sci-poster]
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:26:56 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <lgfo2nINN86q@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> forghani@condor.ccrit.doc.ca (B. Forghani (Idacom/HP)) writes:
>
>Both Anoosh Hosseini and Noushin Bashir had also started a similar facility.
>Unfortunately, I had lost their address and forgot to mention Siamak mention
>it in the SCI's FAQ. In fact, had totally forgotten about it. I hope these two
>email addresses and the idea will be mentioned in the next faq.

Hello Behdad,

I suppose you are talking about "fekr" the anonymous posting facility
that was provided by Anoosh, and I don't recall having anything to do
with it.  He was kind enough to set up an account for the public use
of others. You can refer to Anoosh's recent posting for the new e-mail
address of "fekr".


					Cheers for now,
					Noushin :)
-- 
From the pain come the dream. From the dream come the vision. From the
vision come the people. And from the people come the power. From this
power come the change. 
					- Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala)
Subject: kbr az iyran
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:34:03 GMT


                         | .|        |           .      |     . | =  ..  .    
                        _|_7|>       |_8 q   > q_7      | _     |_)  __,_7q_w 
                     (_S         (_S     / /   /    (_S  /.   /           /   




                 /  .       . | =        | .      ..   |.        c   |. =     
          .  >  _)    q_w     |_)  ,  e_ |_,,_p   __   |  q      w   | _)  4_ 
         (_)   /    / /     /        (_:             /  / /   (_/  /  /     . 

                      |       . T  . |  |-C   /\     c        |   |        : |
                q   o |_o     > |    |  |   o --   q  _       |_8_|_,_,_o q_ |
                /           /      /               / /c   (_S       : .   /   

               .. . |        |- |    .           | /          |   |        : |
               __,_ |q   q   |  |   q_     ,  .  |_)_,_       |_8_|_,_,_o q_ |
                     /   /          /  /     (_)     :c   (_S       : .   /   

                   c         |       |       |                . |      |    . 
             c q  _w         |_7   | |_w   o |_o    . _o_8_     |   .  |_w_,_ 
            (_ / /     (_S /  .   (|               (_)    .   /    (_)     :  

                                                                  c       |  .
                                                              . ]_w   ]_8 |q_7
                                                                           /  



             |            c        :.               ..    .        . |     :. 
          \/ |     q_  _8_w   ,  |_o_   q    |_o_7  __,_e_,,_p   :   |   |_o_ 
                 / /: /         (|      /   (|                     /    (|    


=begin=
svKt gaz bray Kvdrvhay daKly 
bh gzarS vzart Cnaye, gaz svz krdn atvmbylhay pJv 504 az AZr mah v
atvmbylhay pykan, rnv 12 v vant nysan az bhmn mah sal jary Srve Kvahd Sd.

nql az: Cnet Hml v nql, Shryvr 17
=end=


Ala  U_c
From: smortaz@handel.Eng.Sun.COM (Shahrokh Mortazavi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: !!!!!!!!!!Satan.!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 24 Nov 1992 01:46:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, CA  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: handel

In article <19NOV199208132742@rosie.uh.edu> cosc186y@rosie.uh.edu (92F06787) writes:
>
> You know I was wondering, why don't we all give a little history about
> ourselves? 

is it my imagination or did everyone pass up on satans offer to tell
us about himself? 

i say go for it satan!  im sure as hell (whoops, sorry...) interested!  

ps give ample airtime to the childhood years.

>Satan.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shahrokh Mortazavi                            smortaz@handel.eng.sun.com
Technology Development group         Sun Microsystems / SunTech / SunPro
Languages Department                     2550 Garcia, Mt View, Ca, 94306
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Saturday, 21 Nov 1992 11:13:08 CST
From: Fardad         <U33720@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Meeting on high tech. import to iran???

Hello friends;

 Does any one know about the decisions/proccedings of the meeting recently
held in Germany by U.S. , FRANCE, ... to discuss High tech. exports of
Japan and Germany to IRAN?

Fardad
From: mporter@neumann.une.edu.au (The Real Genious)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: A Question (Calling M.G & Seyyed)
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:29:22 GMT

Salam hamegeen,
	I am not a new user but as you may recall, have written before in the
name DWARF, and this article is mainly for the attention of the two Islamic
dudes that think they know everything about the present Iran and what was Iran
and what would it be if this money hungry regime wasn't placed there by the
Govts of Germany and France and the well known and noisy CIA of USA. 
	I have everal question for you two. Tell me, why is it that the economy
of Iran so bad?? Why is it that there is absolutely no freedom of speech and
freedom for women?? Why is it that the government and it's agencies are so 
corrupt?? Why is it that the whole Iranian system has turned backward when these
things where put into power?? Why is it that education and funding the needed
facilities for the future of Iran lacking and have declined substantially since
the Shah was exiled?? Why is there so much debt where there shouldn't be any
as Iran's wealth lies underground and there is abundant of it.

These are are just some of the wuestions that I want you two to answer for me
on two separate articles posted here so that everyone can read. 

						Farzin


Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: FRENCH PRESIDENT MITTERRAND TO VISIT JORDAN, ISRAEL FOR MIDEAST TALKS
Originator: sehari@class1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:56:28 GMT

FRENCH PRESIDENT MITTERRAND TO VISIT JORDAN, ISRAEL FOR MIDEAST TALKS

DOHA (NOV. 14) DPA - French President Francois Mitterrand will visit Israel and
Jordan next week for talks on the Middle East peace process, French Foreign
Minister Roland Dumas told a news conference in Doha, Qatar, late Saturday. 

''President Mitterrand will affirm France's stance on this (Middle East)
problem that the only reasonable solution is a comprehensive solution that
takes into account the need to grant the Palestinian people their rights to
life and to organise their state and at the same time gives Israel the right to
its security,'' Dumas said. 

He spoke after holding talks with the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad
al-Thani, and Crown Prince and Defence Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa
al-Thani on Gulf security, Middle East peace efforts and ways to expand
bilateral relations. 

Dumas arrived in Doha earlier Saturday at the start of a four-nation Gulf tour
that will also take him to Bahrain, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Those states,
along with Oman and the United Arab Emirates, make up the Gulf Cooperation
Council (GCC). 

During his tour, Dumas will also discuss border disputes between Saudi Arabia
and Qatar and between the UAE and Iran and explain France's position towards
these disputes, diplomatic sources said. 

Dumas is expected to underline France's readiness to play a role in the
U.S.-sponsored peace talks between Arab states and Israel, the sources said. 



-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb)
Subject: Re: Farhangestan (was Re: chAleh meydoon)
Keywords: gerdAli
Organization: VezArateh Amoozesho Parvaresh 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:48:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.180712.4478@msdhsv.ingr.com> 
ahmad@norooz.b17a.ingr.com writes:

>Farhangestan has contributed a lot to our today's language. Here is
>a few words that Farhangestan has added to Farsi. Aren't these
>simple and beatiful?
>
>1. shahrbAnE  (nazmE-eh)
>2. dArAE      (mAlE-eh)
>3. dAdgostarE (adlE-eh)
>4. shahrdArE  (baladE-eh)
>5. dAdgAh     (?)
>
>Let's add to the list.
>
>Ahmad
>ahmad@norooz.b17a.ingr.com

I wonder if these were covered by FarhangestAn, but they came to mind 
nevertheless.

TimArestAn	dAr-ol-majjAnin
dAneshgAh	dAr-ol-fonoon ( can anyone comment on this since
                                 this is from Amir Kabir's time
                                 when they created madreseyeh dAr-ol-fonoon
	                         and there is ambiguity as to whether it's 
                                 classified as High School or dAneshgah)
dAneshjoo/dAneshAmooz	talabeh??
VezArateh Jang/defA'	divAneh harb
bimArestAn		mariz-khAneh
artesh or Artesh	sepAh
mAdar			khAnoom vAledeh ([c] amoojoon)
pedar			abavi
barAdar			akhavi
khAhar			hamshireh
maghAzeh		dokkAn
ostandAr		vAli
nokhost-vazir		sadre' a'zam
khod-ro			mAshin or machine
khod-kAr		automatic or ottomatik :-)
vezArateh keshvar	vezArateh Omooreh dAkheleh

and then there are foreign words introduced into the language:

hotel			mosAferkhAneh / kArvAn-sarA
doktor			hakim or hakim-bAshi 
...

Doesanyone know the older equivalents of these military ranks,
if they did exist at all?

sargord- sarhang - sarteep - sarlashgar - sepahbod - arteshbod/daryabod


Aref


Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack)
Subject: Re: Ghotba jan, Hooshi aziz va Faloodeh?
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:51:26 GMT

minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>bahman@ee.umanitoba.ca writes:
>>
>>Selam Hooshi jan,
>>
>>Holat chetorast pesar, Holo naderes mirvi fAloodeh va makhloot noosh jan
>>mikoni va tArifash ra bara-ye ma miAvari. Bashad, Bashad in ast rasm
>>lootigari naderes tamam alam. Khoda besar shohed ast del-e shakhs banda
>>bara-ye fAloodeh enghadar shodeh. Alon shayad ye hamchin 10-15 sali ast ke
>>shakhs bandah va Ghodsi va Gholi va Ghasem va Roghi va Soghi ro-ye fAloodeh ra nadidim.
>>
>>Vaghti esm fAloodeh ra bordi, khoda besar shohed posht hamin SUN
>>Ab az lab-o-louche Ghoti jan sarazir shodeh bood va tamam keyboard ra
>>fra gerefte bood.
>>
>>Albat shakhs banda heech Alaghe-ee be origin-e fAloodeh nadaram,
>>naderes faghat tarze dorost kardanesh ra be Ghoti jan begu gher-gher-e
>>Ghotba jan.
>>
>>Munes va Antar mohtaram-e eeshan agha-ye Makhmal khan ham selam miresanand.
>>
>>
>>Official Ghotba of SCI and proud of it!!! 
>>
>
>now can someone tell us ignorants what the hell this means in english?
>
>--== not the fingernail man ==--
>
>zafar

Zafar Gholi khAn [(c) ???,92]

I think you have to offer him "yak chand adad non khomeh-ie" if you
want a translation.

    --mack

Xref: sparky soc.culture.iranian:10243 soc.culture.afghanistan:1281
From: ali@woodman.mti.sgi.com (Ali Moayedian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.afghanistan
Subject: Re: ** Today's Poem.  30 Aban 1371 **
Date: 23 Nov 1992 17:16:17 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ali@mti.sgi.com (Ali Moayedian)
NNTP-Posting-Host: woodman.mti.sgi.com

In article <sehari.722314295@class1.iastate.edu>, sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:
|> ---
|> ...
	Beautiful poem deleted.
|> ...

|> Frankly, Latin Alfa beta looks too ugly with the poems.  Those, who are
|> interested send me a Email, I'll put you on a mailing list and send the
|> codes with the poem to you everyday.  If you are intrerested I can send 
|> it to Farhad Shakari, so he can put it on Tehran.
|> -- 

I would like to request users of Gerdsooz to include the input text for Gerdsooz 
along with the Persian script.  There are several good reasons for that:

	- It allsow readers to create their own interface.  As Anoosh Hosseini 
	  mentioned, he has an X-viewer that displays Gersdooz's input using 
	  real fonts.  
	       
	- It allows porting the text to Persian wordprocessors.

	- It helps people to see that Gerdsooz's input is very simple.

	- It allows for collecting and resusing the information (poems, 
	  proverbs, etc).  

Regards,
Ali Moayedian
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: Voting result 5
Originator: sehari@class1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:00:51 GMT

----
                                            By  Rotation------------+
                                            By   Election-------+   |
                                            By  Appointment--+  |   |
                                                   Yes  No   |  |   |
                                                    V    V   V  V   V

Email address:sehari@iastate.edu
Name:Babak Sehari
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                    X        X

Email address: 8809787L@LV.LEVELS.UNISA.EDU.AU
Name: PAYAM POURBEIK
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:		    X           X

Email address:tooraj@daneel.rdt.monash.edu.au
Name:Tooraj Enayati
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                              

Email address:mehdi@admin.kth.se
Name:Mehdi Alipour
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                    X           X

Email address:mhz@nwu.edu
Name: Mariam Hakim-Zargar
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                         X

Email address:mehran@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au
Name:Mehran Pourzinal
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                    X        X      

Email address:g9020985@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au
Name:Mansour Esmaili
Should we have a regional manager, if so            |    |   |  |   |
how he or she should be elected:                    X        X

Total Votes:                                        5    1   3  2    0
Adopted:
We should have regional Manager, who should be elected by appointments.
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL)
Subject: Re: Ms(Mr)King (the jews)
Followup-To: soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:06:18 GMT

If nothing else, this post by MG makes me sick.  One of the classic beliefs
of anti-semitism is the belief that Jews are in control of political
organizations and of newspapers.  I think that posting one's disgust at
prison conditions in Israel is justified.  However, blatent anti-Semitism or
any form of bigotry should not be left unanswered on this or on any other 
board.  
 I must therefore state, the rights of Muslims, Jews or any other group that
are defamed should be defended whenever such a posting occurs.
  	By attempting to stereotype Jews as people who somehow conspire to
control newspapers, human rights organizations, etc. one does the same
evil that this post was originally about, namely defamation of one group by
another.  I hope that in the future, there will be no more stereotyping of
different groups on this newsgroup and that people who post focus on the more
important aspects of the middle east, namely, the continuation of the peace
process to a workable, just, and more peaceful middle east, and the 
liberalization and democratization of despotic regimes such as those of
Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and many more.

-Danny Sokol
Amherst College
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: paran_p@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pirouz Parang)
Subject: Re: Phone # changes in TERHRAN!!!!!
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:59:07 GMT

In article <92326.110649U33720@uicvm.uic.edu> Fardad         <U33720@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>Salam Doustan;
>
>I had been trying too call my parents(@tehran) fodays I kept getting
>busy signal. Finally one of the long distance operators suggested talking
>to an operator from TEHRAN, he told us:
>
>              - A LOT OF PHONE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN CHANGED
>
>              - IN MY CASE  427(1st 3 digits) WAS CHANGED TO  227
>
>I hope this help you if you have problems.
>Fardad

Here is how the phone numbers in Tehran will be chnaged

	numbers that started with:	now start with:
			22			222
			427			227
			457			257
			437			258
			31			311
			52			562
			53			563
			66			646
			75			750
			473			783
			78			786
			60			809
			465			885
			466			886
			488			888
			449			889
			809			806
			690			800
			699			809
			37			38
			57			570
			90			400
			498			378
			499			379
			415			465
			416			466
			440			489
			449			480
			454			504
			455			505
			385			645
			82			882

	These chnages are due to the upgrading of the telephone networks
and communications centers.

From Iran Times 11/20/92

Pirouz
From: >>>>>> Anonymous
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: The emergence of X [sci-poster]
Date: 16 Nov 1992 20:37:10 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: handel
To: sci-anon-poster 

I am X.

X
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------
|This message was posted to SCI via direct e-mail.  Yours truly is
|not responsible for its contents!             Shahrokh Mortazavi.
|
|E-mail *anonymous* posts to : sci-anon-poster@handel.sun.com
|E-mail regular posts to     : sci-poster@handel.sun.com
|E-mail problems to          : smortaz@handel.sun.com
|Anonymous posts: lines after '--' in col 1 are removed (signatures).
|Test first before posting anonymously!
From: >>>>>> Anonymous
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Continued Humor (Especially for Mr. Aref) [sci-poster]
Date: 18 Nov 1992 01:54:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: handel
To: sci-anon-poster 

 
+------------------------------------------------------------------
|This message was posted to SCI via direct e-mail.  Yours truly is
|not responsible for its contents!             Shahrokh Mortazavi.
|
|E-mail *anonymous* posts to : sci-anon-poster@handel.sun.com
|E-mail regular posts to     : sci-poster@handel.sun.com
|E-mail problems to          : smortaz@handel.sun.com
|Anonymous posts: lines after '--' in col 1 are removed (signatures).
|Test first before posting anonymously!                         
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: President Rafsanjani said to utilize oil for retaliation.
Originator: sehari@class1.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:14:59 GMT

--
11/18 (DJ) Iran's Rafsanjani Says Oil Should Be Used As Lever Vs West

    NICOSIA, Cyprus -AP- Iran's President Hashemi Rafsanjani called on
Muslim countries to use their oil resources as an economic lever against
the West, the Islamic Republic News Agency reported.
    The agency, monitored here, said he was speaking at the opening of
the 10th annual meeting of the Islamic chambers of commerce. The
conference is being attended by 30 Muslim countries.
    Rafsanjani said that the ''technology and economic progress of the
Western world are dependent on the rich resources of the world's 1.2
billion Muslims,'' which should be used as economic levers to bring
pressure on the West.
    He said ''Islamic countries are not using these levers due to lack
of planning,'' and called for steps to coordinate efforts by Islamic
countries to control their own resources.
    Rafsanjani said this did not mean that Muslim countries should stop
cooperating with the West.
    He said Western countries used economic sanctions to bring pressure
on Third World countries, and that Muslim countries should learn to
respond in kind.
     2:51 PM
                                 -END-

-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: ahmad@norooz.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ahmad Alavi)
Subject: Re: Persian words in Arabic (was: Re: Fanatacism)
Reply-To: ahmad@norooz.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: " "
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:40:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.102927.3005@fmg.bt.co.uk>, ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:
|> In article <Bxruz1.ABt@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
|> 

                       [stuff deletd]

|> > another thing i noticed is that
|> > the found of pakistanis/indian muslim is almost the same (sans spices). and
|> > indian muslim classical painting has had a lot of persian influence which
|> > wouldn't be surprising since the moghuls (my ancestors) spoke farsi.
|> > interesting things to think about. so let's rap.....
|> 
|> Well, this is a long and fascinating story.  Hafez refers to the
|> influence of of Persian arts and literature in India in the following:
|> 
|> 	Shekkar-shekan shavand hameh tutian-e hend,
|> 		Zin qand-e paarsi ke be bangaleh mi-ravad.
|> 
|> > zafar
|> 
|> -hossein

"qand-e paarsi" here is referring to Hafez himself. He wrote this poem
about his planned trip to India. A trip that never took place.

Ahmad
ahmad@norooz.b17a.ingr.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: babak@cpre1.ee.iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: Re: More info on the Iranian Sub
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:06:40 GMT

In <By70F5.1yI@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

>sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:

>>In <By6A1y.Ay8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

>>>mccd@rosie.uh.edu (Reza Golshan(RA) (713)-743-1540) writes:



>>>This base existed before the revolution.
>>>There are two main bases in KONAARAK (20 km from chaah bahaar).
>>>An air force base which is also a civilian airport and a Navy base
>>>which was half completed when I visited the place almost 8 years ago.

>>>The Navy personnel were trained for submarine long before the revolution.
>>>Iran was supposed to recieve a couple of submarines from Germany (I think)
>>>but that did not happen due to the revolution.  Therefore, Iran had the
>>>base and the personnel to operate the submarine even befre the
>>>revolution.  In fact these were the Americans who encouraged Iran in
>>>expanding its influence to the sea of OMMAAN and Indian ocean.  IRI
>>>is only trying to continue the policy of the past.  r

>>As far as I know, Iran had submarine missions since 60 years ago.  Iran
>>got it's first submarines at Reza Shah's time. The two german subs were in 
>>Iran's control as far as I can remember.  However, these new subs are 

>As far a I know this is the first time we have had any submarines.
>I never heard about German submarines during Reza Shah.  Could it be
>that Iran were supposed to recieve submarines but never did?  I remember
>that an old relative told me that Iran purchased an steel plant from
>Germany that the allied forces sank the ship before it ever got to Iran.
>I heard that Iran had paid for 2 WWII class submarines at the time of the
>Shah.  Apparently that deal did not go through because of the revolution.
>Iranian sub personnel were mainly trained in Germany and U.S.A.

Well, I do not want to give out any information that is not mater of
public records.  However, public records has it that there were a number
of WWII submarines deleivered to Iran at around 60 years ago at The Reza
Shaws time.  Since then, Iranian navy have received many many new subs.
Two German subs that you are taking about were part of a bigger order that
part of it has been deleivered. They were not WWII subs; they were the best
Germany could do at 1970s.

                      With highest regards,
                           Babak   Sehari.




Xref: sparky soc.culture.iranian:10144 soc.culture.arabic:5021 talk.politics.mideast:22298