From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: "Crime File" - Forfeiture Laws
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:44:23 GMT

Caught a good show on KMTP-32, the Bay Area's "multicultural station",
about the application of civil forfeiture to drug suspects.  The show
was "Crime File with James Wilson" (whoever he is), produced by CF
Productions Inc, and funded by the National Institute of Justice, which
surprisingly is the "research arm of the US Department of Justice"
(their words).  The show was aired Monday, September 7, at 10:30pm.

The first ten minutes of the show were used for background information,
including interviews with "suspects" who had lost property to the
government and a law enforcement person from Broward County FL.
Unfortunately, it didn't occur to me to take notes until after this
segment, so I can't tell you much else.

The rest of the program was a "moderated" debate between Gerald
Lefcourt, a defense attorney from New York City on one side, and Peter
Reinstat(sp?), chief of police in Tucson AZ and Ronald Goldstein,
director of the New York State Organized Crime Task Force on the other
side.  I put quotes around "moderated" because James Wilson, the
moderator, was clearly on the anti-forfeiture side of the issue.

Some points made by Mr. Wilson:

	- There are two ways for the government to take your property:
		- "sue your car" (civil suit), where you have to
		  demonstrate that your car was not used in the alleged
		  crime.  (Burden of proof is on the defendant.)
		- prosecute you as a drug trafficker (criminal suit).
		  If the government loses this case, it can still bring a
		  civil suit against your property.
	- The government cannot appeal a civil suit if they lose.  You
	  can, but you'll probably lose the appeal.

Some points made by Mr. Lefcourt:

	- Forfeiture per se is not a bad thing, as long as it is only
	  applied in civil cases, and then only after due process, and
	  then only to the "fruit of the crime".
	- Prosecutors are gangsters.  They routinely use forfeiture as
	  a threat to induce cooperation.  "We're going to convict you of
	  such-and-such a crime, and send you to prison.  If you don't
	  cooperate, we're going to take everything you own before you
	  even go to court."

Some points made by Mr. Goldstein:

	- Of course police spend some of the seizure proceeds on parties.
	- Just because the law isn't perfect, you don't throw it away.
	- In criminal court, you have to prove guilt beyond a
	  reasonable doubt.  In civil court, you only have to show
	  probable cause.  Therefore, if the government can't prove its
	  case, they'll take it to civil court.  "That's the way the law
	  works in this country."

Some points made by Chief Reinstat:

	- Wilson:  "Did you use any seizure proceeds for champagne parties?"
	  Reinstat:  "No, we had beer."
	- Proceeds are used for overtime pay, "capital property" such
	  as building repairs, computers, cars, etc.

If I find out where to get transcripts of the show, I'll post a followup.

gak

---
I don't know what system you use,  you might try vodka in Evian bottles.   Some
people like  cream in  their morning coffee,  I spike  mine with  a little  JD.
Mickey's Big Mouths are an excellent choice, you can use the empty bottles as a
desktop vase.                               -Hoodlum Empire "Get Drunk At Work"
Richard Stueven        gak@wrs.com         attmail!gakhaus!gak        107/H/3&4

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