HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ross@traceback.gatech.edu (Rosario DSouza, J)
Subject: Re: Where can I get Sather?
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Tech
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:28:27 GMT

In article <mwalker-260892141117@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com.> mwalker@novell.com (Mel Walker) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.184926.8090@cc.gatech.edu>, ross@traceback.gatech.edu
>(Rosario DSouza, J) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <mwalker-260892094050@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com.> mwalker@novell.com (Mel Walker) writes:
>> >I've heard about Sather,
>> >which (I gather) ...

>> Try:
>> 
>> icsi-ftp.berkeley.edu:/pub/sather/sather-0.01.beta.tar.Z
>> 
>> And by the way,
>> 
>> why bother,
>> with sather? ...
>> 
>
>You say to try Eiffel
>(It must be delightful)
>But one thing you must understand-
>
>I know it's a hit
>but that's about it.
>I'm one very uninformed man.
>
>So where can I get
>A full, complete set
>So that I can learn and can play?
>
>Is it cheap or free?
>If so, then I'd be
>int'rested. It would make my day.
>

If you are a student,
I'm certain that it wouldn't,

Cost much to get,
A real decent set,

Of all that you need,
To program with speed:

Objects and classes,
Compiled in four passes;

A bunch of libraries,
To write programs with ease;

You never collect garbage,
As you would do for C,

And that itself makes coding,
As easy as can be;

Try inheritance today,
In the Eiffel way,

And you are certain to find,
That when it is combined,

With the bindings dynamic,
And the typings static,

And the classes generic,
And ISE magic,

Things fall in place,
By mysterious grace,

Makes programming a pleasure,
By any sane measure.

Not being a student,
I dare say, shouldn't,

Turn you away,
From Eiffel today.

The rest is up to you,
I'm all for Eiffel; hope you are too.

-----------
Ross D'Souza
ross@cc.gatech.edu

PS. The the above is not to be taken as legally binding.
    I do not speak for ISE, nor for Georgia Tech. I just
    like writing some fun poetry.


Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: olea@hal.nta.no (Ole J. Anfindsen FDA)
Subject: Availability of Eiffel
Keywords: availability Eiffel SPARC MVS OS/2 Windows RS/6000
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:33:27 GMT

I assume Eiffel must be available on major platforms such as SPARC and RS/600,
as well as on PCs running OS/2 or DOS+Windows.  Please correct me if this is
not the case.

Is Eiffel also available on IBM mainframes running MVS?

-- 
Ole J. Anfindsen 
Norwegian Telecom Research
E-mail:  ole.anfindsen@nta.no

Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: ross@traceback.gatech.edu (Rosario DSouza, J)
Subject: Re: Where can I get Sather?
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Tech
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:49:26 GMT

In article <mwalker-260892094050@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com.> mwalker@novell.com (Mel Walker) writes:
>I've heard about Sather,
>which (I gather)
>is rather 
>like Eiffel
>but it's public domain.
>
>I'm looking to find it.
>Does someone here know it?
>Please send an address
>and not just a flame.
>
>Sorry about the poem.
>I just couldn't leave it alone.
>I realize that it's kind of lame.
>


Try:

icsi-ftp.berkeley.edu:/pub/sather/sather-0.01.beta.tar.Z

And by the way,

why bother,
with sather?

Eiffel,
will
fulfill,
your need.

As the saying goes:

Wisdom by the penny,
Seems good to many,
But is soon found,
Foolish by the pound.

..Ross D'Souza
ross@cc.gatech.edu


Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Subject: Re: Where can I get Sather?
Followup-To: comp.lang.eiffel
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:40:56 GMT

Mel Walker in article <mwalker-260892094050@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com.>

MW: I've heard about Sather,
MW: which (I gather)
MW: is rather 
MW: like Eiffel
MW: but it's public domain.

MW: I'm looking to find it.
MW: Does someone here know it?
MW: Please send an address
MW: and not just a flame.

MW: Sorry about the poem.
MW: I just couldn't leave it alone.
MW: I realize that it's kind of lame.

The replies up to now haven't helped you
To find out about Sather, this is true.
It's in sa-0.2i.tar.Z
In the /pub/sather directory
On host icsi.berkeley.edu.

I can't quite give it my backing, 
'cos in documentation it's visibly lacking,
And to make it compile
You might spend a while
Engaged in nefarious hacking.

(OK, so my scansion's vile but this is comp.lang.eiffel not rec.arts.poetry,
and anyway, you try fitting a rhyme round sa-0.2i.tar.Z!)


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: Self un Sun4
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:35:03 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


As I can't see any Self newsgroup and I don't know of an Email support,

I'm asking my questions here:
I downloaded Self 2.0 lastly and got a bad surprise when started:

Self wouldn't accept to run correctly cause of bad libraries: the
libraries on my SPARCstation are a bit too old what seems to pose
problems !

So that I thought I could compile the whole source code again: I also
downloaded the 'optional.VM' and tried to follow indications BUT:

It is said I've got to add in my .cshrc some initialisation for env vars and 
	the values suggested are a bit strange to me:

	What is this baseline directory? what should be arch ?

I hope to get some answer cause it seems Self programming is real fun !

	Stefan Monnier


-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: chris@hawkesbury.uws.EDU.AU (Chris Thompson)
Subject: Mosaix NEW Language GUI
Summary: New Language available
Keywords: language GUI development graphics images
Organization: University of Western Sydney
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:18:23 GMT




				MOSAIX

I have heard of a product which has not got much press - seems OK
It's called 'Mosaix' from

Mosaix Marketing Pty Ltd
Attn Bill Dalgliesh
L1, 170 Pacific Hwy
Greenwich NSW 2065
Australia
(61)02-9013199
(61)02-9013493 Fax


Abstract:

The Mosaix ADL, ( Application Development Language) is a high  level language
designed to enable rapid development of graphics based applications in an X-
windows environment using object oriented methodologies. Mosaix provides a
graphical user interface toolkit, links to proprietary databases, integration of
raster and vector data, multimedia support and real time event handling.

Comment:
	Seems to offer a reasonable runtime price and for Uni's a reasonable
price for development. Would suit Sun environment. Language is written in 'C'
with its own syntax and lots of inheritable goodies.

Please contact  Bill Dalgliesh for further info.

Kind Regards
c.thompson@uws.edu.au
From: gtj@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Glenn T Jayaputera)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: Where to get Eiffel for Ms-DOS
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:13:43 GMT
Organization: RMIT Department of Computer Science

I am wondering where to get the Eiffel compiler for MS-DOS
machines. 

thank you
Glenn Jayaputera
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: gmaughan@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Glenn Maughan)
Subject: Storable file format for a Store Browser
Organization: Monash University, Caulfield Campus
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:16:31 GMT

I am implementing a Persistent Object Store Browser for a research project
and was wondering if anyone knows the format/layout of the store files
created by classes STORABLE and ENVIRONMENT. 

If anyone does know the format can you please let me know soon!?

Failing that, is there any way to load an arbitrary store file into memory
bypassing the error checking performed by STORABLE and ENVIRONMENT, such as:

	class does not exist in the system and
	class size differs.

I would then be able to traverse the object structure using class INTERNAL's
features.  Is there a way to create an object of an arbitrary type, such
as one of the objects in the store file, at run time?  E_CLASS comes close
by being able to create an E_CLASS object representing a particular class.
I don't think this will be sufficient to _fudge_ the STORABLE classes into
thinking the class exists in the system.

Any ideas or advice?
Thankyou,
Glenn
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Maughan
Software Development Honours
email: gmaughan@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: wolffram@andor.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Jochen WOLFFRAM)
Subject: X graphic library
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:26:01 GMT

For visualizing a search process I'm interested in finding
a highly efficient implementation of the following problem using
the Eiffel 2.3 X-graphics library.
The problem is stated very easily:
I'm given a matrix of differently colored unit squares.
The search process iteratively assigns new colors to a small subset
of the unit squares, and these new colors should be displayed
immediately.

Representing the unit squares as instances of type SQUARE from the
graphics library is far too inefficient, because SQUAREs are just
treated as special polygons.

I would appreciate any suggestions.


Jochen Wolffram
(wolffram@andor.wiwi.uni-karlsruhe.de)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: system-level validity
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 07:02:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

bertrand@feiffel.UUCP (Bertrand Meyer) writes:
The first release of ISE Eiffel 3 does not support system-level
>validity checking. We felt that adding system-level checking,
>which addresses a real problem but one that does not arise often
>in practice, was not worth delaying the release by two months
>(the current estimate of the time needed to implement system-level
>validity).
     I thought the whole point of Eiffel was the emphasis on validity
checking.  But at least it is scheduled for Real Soon Now.
     Given system-level validity checking, what strong statements can
one make about a program that passes it?

					John Nagle

Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: bertrand@socs.uts.edu.au (Bertrand Meyer)
Subject: Re: TOOLS Conference Report (?)
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 22 Aug 92 10:45:19 GMT

From quarrie@cds001.cebaf.gov (David Quarrie), about the release
of ISE Eiffel 3:

>The $64k question is of course, when???

That's the one question which we will not answer (at least, not for that
kind of price) until the day we actually start shipping to the entire
user base. Enough people have seen the version now in the US, Canada, Europe
and Australia to testify that it's real. It is being used internally at ISE
with much excitement. But it is not quite ready for shipping to the world at
large.

As I mentioned in another posting a few weeks ago, we were exploring new
ground and have encountered a number of unexpected problems,
some quite late in the process. The solutions to all of these problems
are known; but implementing them has delayed other important tasks, which
must be addressed before we can ship.

We know that many people are eagerly expecting the release and apologize
to anyone whose projects have been impaired in any way by its absence.

Let me use this opportunity to thank the user community for having
kept the pressure to a most gentle level. We know that your standards
of quality are high and we will meet them.

-- Bertrand Meyer
Interactive Software Engineering Inc., Santa Barbara
bertrand@eiffel.com
(Temporarily at University of Technology, Sydney;
mail to usual address will follow.)
From: bruce@plsparc.UUCP (Bruce D Mount)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
Subject: More bad poetry
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:23:38 GMT
Followup-To: bruce@pls.com
Organization: Personal Library Software, Inc.

In response to several posts:


Your poem about Eiffel
Although quite insightful
Didn't quite go all the way

As a user of Eiffel
I agree it's delightful
But there's so much more we should say

Multiple inheritance
With Class/Loop invariants
Make encapsulation a breeze

And garbage collection
Gives memory protection
Putting your poor mind at ease

Routines with assertions
Prevent staff desertions
Since little is left up to chance

It's a whole new gestalt
With no argue of fault
Since blame is assigned in advance

This Programming by Contract
Allows minimal contact
Between people that work as a team

Cause a static type check
May one day save your neck
Ensuring your code is quite clean

And though mistakes happen
It's easy to trap 'em
Cause Eiffel provides for exceptions

They're raised and they're caught
Productivity's bought
By reducing the time for corrections

Eiffel's run-time conformance
And stellar performance
Are an OOP combination that's rare

And so easy to master
It makes learning faster
Than other OOP choices out there



--Bruce   "Another Member of the Eiffel Jihad!"

  Bruce Mount
  Personal Library Software
  bruce@pls.com
  ...uunet!plsparc!bruce

Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: tcn@holon.demon.co.uk (Trevor Nash)
From: todd@liveware.com
Subject: Appology for the wrong group post
Keywords: Screwed Up again
Reply-To: todd@liveware.com
Organization: Liveware Corporation   Fort Collins, CO.  USA.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:15:35 GMT

Dudes and Dudettes,

Sorry for the wrong group post.  Send flames
to me at <todd@liveware.com> if you have to,
but don't mail them to NeXT.

Todd Nathan
csna modman
Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel
From: cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
Subject: Re: Where can I get Sather?
Reply-To: cflatter@nrao.edu
Organization: NRAO
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:00:44 GMT

In article 270892085654@mwalker1.npd.provo.novell.com., mwalker@novell.com (Mel Walker) writes:
>And note, if you please,
>that I, with some ease,
>rhymed the name of the dot-tar-dot-Z.

Not for us Brits :-).

	Chris Flatters
	cflatter@nrao.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: jacob@Mathematik.TU-Chemnitz.DE (Thomas Jacob)
Subject: F83 WANTED !!!
Organization: University of Technology Chemnitz, FRG
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:48:01 GMT


I'm searching for 'F83'(Laxen/Perry) to run on an msdos compatible 
AT 286 16Mhz (VGA,3.5" or 5.25") .
    
    Where can I get it ?
    What does it cost ?

===================================================================
Answers to Thomas Jacob : jacob@euler.mathematik.tu-chemnitz.de
           Chemnitz,Germany
===================================================================
   Thank you, Thomas
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth-83 standards in file?
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:13:50 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Has anyone got a brief copy of Forth-83 standard they could email me?  Or is
it available via ftp somewhere?

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: R65F11...R65F12
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:36:25 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Does anyone know where I can get the Rockwell chips R65F11 and R65F12? If they
are available, how much are they singly and by the handful?
rgrds john
--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: Environmental Queries
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 06:15:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <BtLzu5.11x@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:

>In article <l6+n+w-.xtifr@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>>The current definition of ``ENVIRONMENT?'' seems very poor to me, and I
>>think that either of Brad's proposals here would provide an excellent
>>and robust alternative.

>I heartily agree.  It always seemed to me that ENVIRONMENT? came into
>existance to satisfy one person's needs, with no more thought going into
>how to make it more general purpose.

One person's needs?  I don't know about that.  I think that it fits
a very real need that I and a lot of other people have felt.  I just
don't think it fits that need very well.

Although, if S" were defined as interactive in the CORE wordset, rather
than only if the FILE wordset is defined, ENVIRONMENT? would make a lot
more sense to me.  And the ambiguity about S" would exist even if
ENVIRONMENT? were changed.  Which is why I would favor a change in S",
rather than a change in ENVIRONMENT?

>It's a king of function that needs to be thought out very well before
>being standardized.

Well, personally, I'd rather see something more like the PACKAGE feature
of Modula II.  But that might be overkill for Forth.  :-)
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: X3J14 Holding Pattern Here
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:06:03 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 10,  Topic 12
Message 194       Wed Aug 26, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 10:19 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board

 Date: 08-24-92 (21:58)
   To: MARCEL HENDRIX
 From: JACK WOEHR
 Subj: X3J14 HOLDING PATTERN HER

 -> The past few months my Forthnet connection has been very bad,
 so I am -> (probably) not up to date on mailed comments on
 dpANS-3. Jax has -> suggested that some of the (new) floating-
 point words and even ; were -> broken, but he didn't go into
 details. Could these be summarized?

  ; was broken by an ill-considered change to DOES> browbeaten
 into the technical committee by Mitch Bradley. DOES> on an
 implementation by implementation basis may make the word in
 which it appears findable in the dictionary, which breaks : ; as
 well as the definition of "current definition".

 At least, that was the *intent* ... the effect is even worse,
 since the clumsy language inserted in dpANS-3 against my
 ranting, raving, kicking and screaming, if read as English, says
 in effect that DOES> can cause a name header to be hidden
 forever! That's not what they meant, but that's what they wrote.
 I have commented to that effect, they'll fix it in October.

 I retract my assertion about the Floating Point words. I'm not
 sure they are workable, but I'm not sure they're not, which
 latter erroneous opinion was the result of a misunderstanding on
 my part.

                 =jax=

 BTW Marcel ... the natural inertia of FIG, a true force to be
 harnessed for the betterment of humankind, has prevented me from
 doing much with the articles you sent me. The chance of FORTH
 Dimensios, a genuinely international magazine, actually *daring*
 to print anything in a language other than Engelsk is very slim,
 so I guess I'll have to translate and submit ... how do I go
 about getting permission for reprint? (of course, I'll accept no
 money for the submission, which is good, because FORTH
 Dimensions probably hasn't paid all its authors in the last two
 years what I make for two articles in Embedded Systems
 Programming magazine ... :-) )

                 =AoxajaxoA=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for
 Forth!

 PCRelay:GRAPEVNE -> #318 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11              The GrapeVine (501)753-8121 3.6 gigs Dual Std



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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Why use Forth?
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:51:38 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 6,  Topic 1
Message 41        Tue Aug 25, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 08:45 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board

 Date: 08-24-92 (09:38)
   To: ELLIOTT CHAPIN
 From: GREG VIGNEAULT
 Subj: FORTH FOR SUNS

 EC> Will we see you at Southern Ont. FIG on Sept. 19th?

  Probably not.  Where is it being held?

  Forth is something that I just tinker in, for now (with Tom
  Almy's MS-DOS shareware FORTHCOM compiler).

  As a multi-language programmer, I'm always interested in adding
  a new tool.  I'd like to determine if there may be
  circumstances where Forth would have a definite edge over other
  languages, or if it would be an environment that I'd prefer at
  times.

  Greg_

  Aug.24.1992.Toronto.Canada.   greg.vigneault@bville.gts.org

 PCRelay:BVILLE -> #1412 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11              Baudeville BBS-Toronto  416-283-0114 (v32bis)


-----
This message came from GEnie via willett.  You *cannot* reply to the author
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Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Southern Ontario FIG
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:51:40 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 8,  Topic 23
Message 18        Tue Aug 25, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 08:46 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board

 Date: 08-25-92 (08:13)
   To: GREG VIGNEAULT
 From: ELLIOTT CHAPIN
 Subj: Southern Ont. FIG

 EC> Will we see you at Southern Ont. FIG on Sept. 19th?

 GV> Probably not.  Where is it being held?

 McMaster Univ., Gen. Sci. Bldg. 417, 2 p.m. - 5 p.m.
 speaker: Brad Rodriguez  "Forth Multitasking in a Nutshell"
  (3:15 - 4:15).

 Elliott Chapin
 ---
    DeLuxe  1.12 #4315   elliott.chapin@canrem.com

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