From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: Firewalk
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:44:15 GMT


[a long post re: discussion of science in alt.pagan...]

Janis,

I first started responding to your post by editing through it as we all do,
responding to each argument in turn.  And it occurred to me that it was
pretty counter productive, given that I agree with you on most points.  You
might not agree with me saying it (given your post) but I think we agree
on most of the same points with regard to this subject.  You refer to your-
self as a scientist, making the point that most pagans in your experience are
not scientists.  Well, I don't call myself a scientist, but I have studied
all the physics and chemistry required of an engineer, as well as cognitive
psychology, artificial intelligence, among other areas. Not to toot my horn,
merely to point out that I have a science/technical background as well. 

My point in that VERY long post was not to denigrate scientific discussion
or relegate it to anywhere else, but to attempt to show how errors in logic
tend to creep into discussions, these errors due to "the crossing of realms."

I tried (apparently in vain) to describe the cautions involved in breaking
our experiences of reality into "realms" and to point out that I was only
using it as a tool to understand how problems like the fundies legislating
science or science "explaining" religion or mystical experience can arise,
not to exclude any use of a scientific viewpoint or ideas obtained from 
science. 

I'd personally like to see this thread die, as the discussion of definitions
of paganism, etc. have gone way over their deserved bandwidth usage. I just
want to make clear that I have no problems with a scientific explanation, in
fact I prefer it (as others seem to) to the blind faith method. *bleet*
I don't make a separation between "realms" in my daily existence, in fact I
generally get accused of "soap jumping" when discussing issues with my friends
in the sciences, as they don't like me bringing in elements of philosophy,
spirituality/religion into discussions of "hard" science. As I mentioned in
my post, it seems much of physics has taken on a somewhat "metaphysical" bent,
and I find it limiting to keep my thoughts strictly confined to emperical
reality. 

During the last few years, my studies in Christology (the science of the
development of the Christian religion) has been an uphill battle of separating
the incredible layers of dogma from actual factual information. As you might
imagine, almost every commentator has a bias. I suppose my response re:
firewalking had to do less with the actual argument going on, than with the
general tendency for science to bash religion or religion to bash science.

Blessings to you,

Murray, who respects the RCM (Royal Chocolate Mongers)  :-)

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan