HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: RP's?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:12:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.183801.13229@eng.umd.edu> frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt) writes:
>
>My experience with rp's is that I have never had a number zero hold a fall. A number one
>holds a fall some of the time, number two and up are ok. In the places that I have 
>used rp's (mainly basalt) placement is the biggest problem, the small sizes tend to just
>pull right through the cracks, although I believe that actually snapping the wire or pulling
>it through the brass is also a problem if you can get the things to stay where you put them.
>Needless to say I try to avoid taking wingers on the smaller sizes of these things unless
>they are reasonably backed up. 
>
>Bernie
>-- 
>===============================================================================
>      /\
>     /  \     __________   
>    /    \___/__        \     _


This of course if an ideal time to recall the discussion about 
load-limiting qd's, such as the Air Voyager (Wild Country) or
the Screamer (Yates). Granted, if the placement is manky, then
there's no help. But if the placement is solid, the a load-
limiter may allow a very small piece to hold a fall.
I read an interesting test which was done for the Screamer.
An anvil was tied to a short length of rope (5 ft. seems to
ring a bell), which was then anchored to a fixed point -
_via a pair of shoelaces_! The anvil was dropped (factor 1),
and barely slowed down when it hit the end of the rope.
Add the Screamer (and a new pair of shoelaces) - viola! THe
anchor holds!

My experience with small pro (sans load limiters) is not so
much that the wires break, but the small contact with the
rock will many times lead to the rock shearing. (Just
try a #0 rp in sandstone!)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Daffodil bulbs instead of balls                                          
Stared from the sockets from his eyes!                                    
  --T.S. Eliot, Whispers of Immortality                                   
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rayman@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Raymond Goure)
Subject: Info of Joe Simpson
Organization: US WEST Information Technologies
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:17:11 GMT


I just finished the "Touching the Void" by Joe Simpson detailing his 
and Simon Yates climb of Siula Grande. I was wondering if anyone
has information as to the injuries (specific) suffered by 
simpson. the book leaves it as a broken leg that needed 10
operations. Any info regarding this climber would be greatly
appriciated.

thanks.

by-the-way I recommend the book.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jc@optimla.aimla.com (John VanHoozer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: helmets
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:02:06 GMT
Organization: OptImage Interactive Services Co., L.P.

In article <168BD35E.60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu>, 60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
|> hey,
|>  
|> I saw a letter in a "rock and ice" a while back where a guy asked if biking
|> helmets would work for climbing.  Probably because of advertising or
|> liability, I guess, the ed. didn't really answer. I can imagine a falling
|> rock, or a fall onto rock having more impact than what would normally happen
|> when biking, but can't imagine it would make much difference at that point.
|> what do you people think?  I care for a couple reasons: I already have a bike
|> helmet (but not a climbing h.), b. helmets are more comfortable, and it seems
|> they are more rigorously tested anyway.
|>  
|> k. johnson

k.,

I think that you'll find that most bicycle helmets are deficient in
one major area.  I seem to recall reading that the majority of head
traumas are to the _back_ of the skull and not the top.  A good 
climbing/caving helmet should protect the back of the head as well as
the top.  For instance,  when falling on lead, if your foot were to 
get entagled in the rope (i had this happen) and you turn upside down
when the slack suddenly disappears,  chances are you'll crack the back of
your head.  (In my case,  I was limber enough and the climb was not
dead veritcal at that point - I did come real close).

I honestly think that (1) if you wear a helmet for climbing,  get a climbing
helmet (2) a bicycle helmet is only a little better than nothing (3) back
country climbing on routes where rock fall is a factor _require_ a helmet
and (4) every one should learn how to fall - take a intro to judo or other
martial art!  I've seen too many people get minor injuries because they 
couldn't tuck or recover properly.

				jc

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
John C. VanHoozer			     |
OptImage Interactive Services Company, L.P.  |  uunet!{optimage,aimla}!jc
11040 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite #300	     |  Fax:  (310)445-5720
Los Angeles, Ca. 90025			     |  Phone:(310) 445-5721
___________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer:
   Opinions expressed are mine alone.

My wife is going back to school to study icthyphrenology...  what
ever that is.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry)
Subject: Re: Info of Joe Simpson
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:58:54 GMT

In article <BzBC4n.1Fw@da_vinci.it.uswc.uswest.com> rayman@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Raymond Goure) writes:
>
>I just finished the "Touching the Void" by Joe Simpson detailing his 
>and Simon Yates climb of Siula Grande.  [... stuff deleted ...]
>
>by-the-way I recommend the book.

YES YES YES! Incredible book. I read it in one sitting. If this had been
a novel or a movie it would have been not been believable. Highly recommended.
	richard
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: ON PULL-UPS, TRAINING, AND RELATED THOUGHTS
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:25:19 GMT
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

>azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>>Most importantly, dont waste time power training unless you can run up 6a.

Have standards really raced up that fast????

Juste rereading  _Mirrors in the Cliffs_, and noticed the photo caption,
(crudely paraphrased) 'Jim Dandy on the first lead of The Thing, Bowles,
1981, for years considered the hardest....'.  At 6a, of course!

Is The Thing a good warmup these days, Andrew?

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org

"Off to see the earth, off to touch the sun"... courtesy J Morrison
Have seen some more earth, but damn little sun!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: 60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: helmets
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:14:22 PST

hey,
 
I saw a letter in a "rock and ice" a while back where a guy asked if biking
helmets would work for climbing.  Probably because of advertising or
liability, I guess, the ed. didn't really answer. I can imagine a falling
rock, or a fall onto rock having more impact than what would normally happen
when biking, but can't imagine it would make much difference at that point.
what do you people think?  I care for a couple reasons: I already have a bike
helmet (but not a climbing h.), b. helmets are more comfortable, and it seems
they are more rigorously tested anyway.
 
k. johnson
From: calum@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk (Calum Gordon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Critters
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:31:54 GMT
Reply-To: Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>
Organization: Computational Linguistics Unit, Univ of Wales College of Cardiff
Posting-Software: GNUS: NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs

A friend of mine was on a small expedition to the Karakorum last year
('91) during which the base camp was EATEN and WRECKED by a large
marauding mountain bear (luckily everyone was away at the time). This
bear not only ATE all the remaining food (including tinned stuff) but
excreted most of it over the remains as well. When they returned from
the mountain they were of course shocked at the discovery of this
odious mess and were forced to burn their ruined equipment and then do
a hunger-march out to the nearest village three days hence, living off
two small onions that the bear had missed. That must have been one
mean bear. The slides of the trip bear witness to the carnage, and
while amusing in retrospect, it wasn't much fun for them at the time,
and could have been worse if they had been in town when Yogi strolled
in.
--
** Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk>      ** TEL: +44-222-874000-x5310 **
** Computational Linguistics Unit (CLU)   ** FAX: +44-222-874293       **
** University of Wales College of Cardiff ** JAN: <calum@uk.ac.cf.clu> **
** ----- "People with (a) CLU use Suns; CLUless people use Macs" ----- **
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: CLimbing at the Boston Rock gym on Dec 19th, or 20th
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:04:50 GMT
Organization: intel corporation



	I will be in Boston on the 19th and 20th of December and was
wondering if  anyone in the Boston area might be interested in climbing
with one of us California dudes. You know the ones that surf in the
morning and then climb in the evening's.



Michael


P.S. For those of you going to the Pinnacles, the route Aliens Ate My
Buick 5.10c, is very loose at the top. And the new route to the left
of it is also very loose at the top. Be careful. 
--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Rootbeer^2 = Beer ?             Were all in it together. 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Subject: Re: helmets
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:22:26 GMT
Reply-To: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Zurich Research

Biking helmets are great for rock climbing and protect you well in case of a fall.
In danger of falling rock or ice they are not recomendable because they are not 
built for this purpose. 

BTW.The Austrians proved that a woolen cap is the best thing to have. They tested 
different helmets by dropping them from 100 m to the ground - The woolen cap was the
the only one which was not damaged. (sorry just a intra alpine joke, who wants
can replace Austrians by Germans, French, Italians or Swiss) 

Erich Ruetsche
From: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM (Chris Brown - SunSelect Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: WINTER IN THE WHITE MTNS.
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:49:25 GMT
Reply-To: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
NNTP-Posting-Host: islesboro.east.sun.com

If you've got 4 days, try a Presi traverse. Do the Presedential Ridge from Madison to Clinton (not Bill).

Also, a one day ascent of Central Gully on Mt Washington is fun (one pitch grade 1 ice). Stay at Harvard Cabin in Huntington Ravine.
From: rob@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Critters
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:03:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

The only on-route confrontattion that I can remember was with a huge bird,
least it seemed that way at the time.  Funnily enough I was on a route called
Birdland Direct (HS 4b about 5.5, 5.6 I think) at Peak Scar in North Yorkshire.
Excellent route, climb interestingly to a ledge then up and over an overhang.
Lots of gear as you pull up to the overhang then lean right out  and over to get
the crack above and right and sort of layback over it.  Just as I reached into
he crack and started to pull this bird flew straight out making alot of noise.
Gave me a shock and a half!

Worst stories I have heard are about the Fulmars (sea birds) on the Scottish
sea stacks (eg Old Man of Hoy) with their projecting vomit. Most unpleasant.

Rob.
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Critters
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:23:28 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

One time my brother and I came across a rattlesnake right under our feet at the
beginning of our climb.  It was quite frightning since we live in Iowa, and the
rattlesnake population up here is as dense as there is bolted routes, maybe
twenty.  Paul Jacobson

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:31:48 GMT


Well, my two pennies on this.  I enjoyed the jesus post, I 
also consider irrelevant that it was a masked joke ... it
seemed most likely to me that it was.  Since I'm also a
sysadmin, I can sympathise with the mess of a machine downed
due to intentional mishief.  But hell, guys, ... are any
of these things of such grand importance that we need to 
appeal to the supreme court?  What saddens me is that when
I see everyone get all worked up about something as petty as
this and all the 'mormons suck' - 'no I'm one and I am nice'
arguments ... I start thinking about how many people have
killed each other over this crap in the last year.  How about
mellowing out, acquiring a sense of humor, and gee, ...
get along w/ each other?  What I've noticed is that even the
most tragic things, and I've also seen a few, including
holding onto someone while they died, and, hell, I still
have to go to work in the morning, and I still value the
chance to romp up a rock with a good friend, and the latter
is very very important, NOT ficticious law suits or what
particular religious book you happen to keep on your shelf.

Time for a beer, and weekend away from this tube skiing in
the hills.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell
From: jacobson5821@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: help on placing pro on bolts
Date: 12 Dec 92 13:56:24 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

When you clip a bolt how exactly do you do it safely so your rope can't work
its way out?  What I mean is do you place the biner that is connected to the
bolt gate up and out or down and out, and how 'bout the biner connected to the
rope.  Thanks in advance, Paul
From: chaffee@reed.edu (Alex Chaffee)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing near Rennes, FRANCE
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:14:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec13.211415.19582
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR


I'm going to be in Rennes, in Brittany, in France, for either 1 or 2 weeks in
January. I'm trying to decide whether or not to bring my climbing gear. Does
anyone know anything about

	- weather - if it's going to be cold or rainy or snowy or windy,
outdoor climbing is out
	- nearby routes - preferably accessible without a car, although I
can probably arrange something
	- local organizations - like climbing clubs or something, to find
information and partners
	- if there's a rock gym in Rennes - I've done most of my climbing
indoors so far, and this would be most convenient, if only to keep the
muscles from atrophying

Any info is appreciated! (And don't delay - I start my vacation a week from
tomorrow!)

Thanks  - Alex
-- 
Alex Chaffee
chaffee@reed.edu
____________________
From: schuman@eacces.wpd.sgi.com (Aaron Schuman)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Southern Ontario Dolomite
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:49 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Silicon Graphics 415-390-1901
NNTP-Posting-Host: eacces.wpd.sgi.com

Paul L> Note that the rock is, for the most part, limestone. Very different, 
Paul L> in my limited experience, from what you might be used to out west. 

There's quite a bit of variety out here in Central California. 
Last Saturday I was climbing on sandstone.  Nearby there's some
fragile old volcanic stone.  We all try to spend as much time
on white granite diorite as possible.  It's the sturdiest and
most interesting for climbing.

I'd go so far as to say that white granite diorite is my favorite
substance of any kind.  I rate it above warm bathwater, chocolate
pudding, and Kashmir wool.  It is worth driving four hours to
Yosemite to get some.  There are a few kg of it here on my desk,
but it isn't the same thing at all.


					Aaron

.............................................................................
Aaron Schuman     415-390-1901     schuman@sgi.com     Silicon Graphics, Inc.
From: wgh@apss.ab.ca (Warren Hennig)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Bolted Alpine Routes?
Date: 12 Dec 92 05:41:55 GMT
Reply-To: wgh@apss.ab.ca (Warren Hennig)
Organization: Alberta Public Safety Services

In article <1992Dec8.231612.1549@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec7.232041.4613@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>Geez, I wonder what you guys do when you get to ice?  Ice bolts?
>>Chop thru to the rock and place a new bolt each time?
>
>bolts have been used on some Canadian ice climbs where the ice is very thin
>and other pro is difficult.  Has anyone on the net been on such climbs?

I have been on climbs which have these bolts on them. Sometimes a person
can reach these bolts and sometimes they are twenty feet from the ice. It
seems that these falls are never the same so who knows if the bolts will be
accessible. I have seen belay stations which have about 10 bolts in a
twenty foot area because of the yearly variation.
-- 
 	Warren Hennig	    wgh@apss.apss.ab.ca		403-427-2772
      "Exploration is the physical expression of intellectual passion"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: *So* many ways to do it wrong. (very long)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 07:28:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.002838.11524@walter.bellcore.com>
flag@banco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Steve Waddell) writes:
>  Good points. How many people have learned how to fall?

Few activities teaching falling (judo and aikido are among them).
However for short slip type falls I would question een whether these would
help like a time I slipped on a Kronhoffer sole nail.  The fall was over before
I knew it.  Climbing falls are too unpredictable.

>  and off the cliff and fall properly - DO NOT GRAB THE ROPE! Instead your 
>  hands and feet should be out to hit the rock and absorb the fall
>  before your head/torso does.

This does not sound like teaching to fall.  People will hit a rope
regardless of tryng to grab it.  Hands and feet might get abraded or
broken (too dependent on rock configuration).  How about an arm to protect
the neck or something?   Tuck the head in?  Roll like into a ball, etc.?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: daf@riviera.camb.inmet.com (Tony Flanders)
Subject: Re: WINTER IN THE WHITE MTNS.
Organization: Intermetrics Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:22:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.193242.18609@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Ralph.C.Lindenfeld@dartmouth.edu (Ralph C. Lindenfeld) writes:

> I just looked up 'central gully' in my White Mountain Guide and topo
> and can't find it. Perhaps you're referring to the 'great gulf'? I'd be
> interested in this spot you're referring to. Maybe you can find the
> trail name this pitch is on?

Central Gully is the huge, obvious couloir up the center-left side of
Huntington's Ravine, clearly visible from the road, and one of the two
or three easiest routes up the Ravine in winter.

It is not clear from your posting whether you are looking for hiking,
climbing, or something in between.  If you have been up Huntington's
in winter, you are either a competent mountaineer or more than usually
foolish; if you have done a full Presidential traverse, you are obviously
tough.  If you want to do more serious climbing, get hold of the Ice
Climber's Guide to New England, which just came back in print.  If you
want to do more serious hiking, you are out of luck -- the Presidential
traverse is by far the longest above-treeline hike east of the Mississippi
and south of Labrador.  If you just want to see some pretty scenery, I
have all kinds of other suggestions.

By the way, have you also considered the Adirondacks?  The Range Trail
rivals the Presidential traverse in scenic beauty, although it is almost
entirely below treeline.  And the Range Trail in winter would be very
serious indeed -- *not* to be undertaken without a solid grounding in
ice climbing.  Also not to be undertaken if you don't enjoy snowshoeing
up absurdly steep slopes.

    - Tony Flanders
	daf@inmet.camb.inmet.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: travel insurance
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:09:11 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>>mvanwouw@fraser.sfu.ca (Mark Van Wouw) writes:
>>
>>Do any Canadians know of good (ie. cheap that covers climbing) insurance
>>for climbing in the US?  I'm in the Vancouver area.

dmanke@sanjuan (Dennis Manke) writes:
>All medical insurance policies in NA exclude mountaineering, climbing, and any
>other sports that are considered "dangerous".

Many insurance companies will not insure "dangerous" activities.  But there
are many who will, you just have to shop around.  The only company that
would not insure me was State Farm, however, Blue Cross would.  Most
insurance companies do not care whether your "injury" occurs in your
home, or in Mexico (as long as you follow their guidelines which many
HMO require).

Since you are a Canadian resident you might find it hard to get any
insurance from a US company.  My suggestion would be to contact CAC or the
ACC which is now offering rescue insurance.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein