From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA / Why Not?
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Live & Direct from Downtown Petah Tikva ISRAEL
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 14:18:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.223456.23903@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:

Quoting me:


>>All of my Israeli friends strongly urge aliyah and, in fact, generally
>>fail to comprehend any reason to live in Artzot ha-Brit.  (These are datiim.)
>>I find this understandable and have interesting discussions as a result.
>>What I find less understandable is the attitude of many American olim.  On
>>the one hand, most of them urge aliyah as fervently as everyone else, al-
>>though there are exceptions to this.  On the other hand, there are NO 
>>exceptions to the observation that EVERY American oleh or olah with whom I've
>>discussed the matter retains their US citizenship and passport.  Home is
>>always just a plane ride away.  I find this juxtiposition of attitudes and
>>actions to be a little hypocritical.

Chris responds:

>Suppose someone has an unsuccessful absorption, or cannot find a job?  Should
>they burn all their bridges just to satisfy your attitude that they aren't 
>"really" Israelis unless they jump off your hypothetical edge?  If they do
>their Army Service then they have satisfied any criteria I can think of.
>
>Your hypothesis doesn't even seem typically Israeli to me.  The Israeli thing 
>is to stay alive and scramble, taking advantage of every lever within reach 
>to help build a Jewish life in Eretz Israel.  For some that may mean multiple 
>tries at Aliyah.  Any Jewish Agency Shliach will tell you the same thing.

I'd ask Chris to reread my post.  I didn't refer to olim hadashim struggling
to make a go of things.  I referred to people who have lived here for up to
twenty-two years.  I also made a point of saying that the olim to whom I was
referring were people who argued that ALL American Jews should make aliyah;
ie. that Jews have no business living in America.  (Only voting there is OK,
see below.)  What is the point of bringing up people who fail at their  first
attempt to make aliyah?  I wasn't talking about them and, if I were, I'd ask
why Americans should be more coddled than olim from other countries?

>>What REALLY floors me, though, is the fact that only one American here has
>>told me that, as a matter of principle, he will not and does not vote in
>>American elections.  Everyone else was falling all over themselves to get
>>in their vote for Mr. Clinton, even people who have lived in Israel and
>>held Israeli citizenship for five, ten, even twenty-two years.  This is
>>incomprehensible to me.
>
>If they paid taxes as U.S. Citizens why should they not have a say in
>U.S. Government.  If they have a chance to help Midinat Yisrael by voting
>for an American candidate or policy that they see beneficial to Israel,
>why should they not do so?  The U.S. and Israel support duel citizenship.
>I think your concept of "authenticity" is stuffy and overly nationalistic.

Although they file tax returns with the IRS (for the purpose of safe-
guarding their citizenship) hardly any are actually required to pay taxes.
Even I won't have to do that this year.  So what if they paid taxes while
living in the US.  I said that one of my friends has been here for twenty-
two years.  He has chosen to live here and tie his fate to Israel which is
fine by me, wonderful, ayn baayah.  But it's absurd to me that he should be
voting in the US.  On top of everything else, it's the ultimate example
of divided loyalty and it does no service whatsoever to American Jews.
Just imagine the uproar and outrage if it ever turned out that an election
had been decided by expatriate Americans now Israelis!


>>Why should these people vote for both the US President and the Israeli 
>>Knesset?  And, to top it off, many of them argue that American Jews have
>>no business living in America.  I don't get it.
>
>>A couple of weeks ago Kol Yisrael ran a short radio program on this
>>subject.  They interviewed people who not only vote in US elections, but
>>also lobby for such things as extending Medicare benefits to Israel!  Is
>>this chutzpah or what?
>
>Not sure how this would work, but again if they payed into the system they
>should get the benefits as they do with Social Security.
>

Oh, please.  Medicare (and SS, for that matter) are paid out of current
revenue.  But that's not really the point.  I'm saying it's  evidence of a
gimme - entitlement mentality that does us no credit as Jews.  Have one's
cake and eat it, too.

I think U.S. law ought to be changed.  The ability to become an Israeli
while retaining U.S. citizenship is close to unique.  In general, if one
accepts foreign nationality, he or she loses American nationality.  It's
my opinion that this loophole is bad for American Jews.  It's good for
American olim, but I think the losses exceed the gains.



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu