HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:40:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.133909.23257@cs.yale.edu> engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
>I am a frum vegetarian (frum enough to qualify for the "right-wing
>extremist" epithet from some quarters, vegetarian enough not to allow
>noten-taam lekhatkhila :-).  I'd like to summarise my thoughts on the
>matter, of which I have many, due to the continual necessity to
>justify myself to others.  I'll restrict myself here to halachic
>questions, even though I personally am motivated by other factors as
>well.  There are two types of questions I'll attempt to answer, (a)
>does halacha allow vegetarianism, [deleted]
>
>The third main halachic objection to vegetarianism is that it is
>associated with avodah zarah [idolatry], and hence should be avoided
>as a matter of mar'is `ayin [something which, while not itself
>forbidden, looks like a forbidden act].  I have even heard it
>suggested that vegetarians should specifically eat a piece of meat on
>Shabbat to avoid giving this impression.  However, it seems to me that
>this position is rather weak, especially in the US today.
>Vegetarianism, though it is a part of several Eastern Asian types of
>avodah zarah, as well as neo-paganism, is certainly not a primary
>indicator for membership in such a cult.  It is more associated here
>(although less and less as time goes on) with the "California" "health
>food" fad, and has no religious overtones at all.  Even did it have
>some such overtones, I would think that extrapolating from this
>halachically permitted behavior (which itself doesn't even look like a
>forbidden activity) to think someone an avodah zarah-nik, would be a
>case of choshed b'k'sherim [suspecting the innocent].
    
   Without consideration to the question of vegetarianism, is this an
   acceptable argument in general? My understanding about the
   prohibition of shaving the face with a blade is that scarring the
   face was a feature of some cults of avodah zara. The parallel
   with vegetarianism extends to there being some african cultures
   that purposely scar their bodies. Could one thus argue to
   allow shaving with a blade?
From: leonard@umsa8.umd.edu (Leonard Nisenoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Stamford CN.
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:36:47 GMT

br042@cleveland.freenet.edu writes:


>O Shuls? How many?  Affiliations?
> 
>Kosher stores? And in general about the Shomer Shabbos community.

My brother lives in Stamford.  As I remember there is one orthodox and
one Conservative shul in Stamford.  I can't seem to find my book that
has the addresses and phone numbers, but if no one else reply, E-Mail
me and I will get the information from my brother.

From what I found out, the only place in Stamford to get kosher food is
at the Jewish Community Center.

-- Leonard Nisenoff (leonard@umsa8.umd.edu)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: yehuda@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Jonathan Berlinger)
Subject: Re: A SURRENDER
Organization: Mail to News Gateway
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:58:39 GMT

> Why is 'he' doing nothing to stop killers from culling the sheep.

The question "How can God exist if evil exists?" is elementary if you stop to
consider it from the point of view of a theologist for a sec. God could very well
have created some perfect paradise, and God could easily wipe out all "bad"
things immediatly. A theologist (is that the right word?) beileves that the world
was created imperfectly, and everthing is not solved instantaneously, so that
humans can show the moral sense to petition him, to supplicate and to take
action.

Your question now becomes, "For what reason does God run this apparent torture
chamber?" which is tougher. But it certainly does not disprove God's existence or
his benevolence  (of course, it doesn't prove it, either).

-- 

Jon Berlinger				"Shade and Sweet Water"
yehuda@cs.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kondor@ee.ualberta.ca (Ran Kondor)
Subject: Re: explanation of the eg
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:43:08 GMT

boaz@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Boaz Ben-Zvi) writes:

>In article <1992Apr9.1659.8671@execnet>, ken.halfon@execnet.com (ken halfon) writes:
>|>     I was wondering if anyone had an explanation of the symbolism of the
>> egg on the Seder plate?
>>     egg on the seder plate.
>This is yet another example to the gentile influence on Judaism: This is

This is hardly the case.  The egg represents the destruction of the holy
temple.  As the eggs is round, representing a cycle, so will the holy temple
be rebuilt.  It is also a symbol of mourning, although I don't think that
it applies to this case.  The salt water represents the tears of the jews
as they were slaved in Egypt.

-- 
/********************************************\
*  Ran Kondor                                *
*  University of Alberta                     *
*  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada                 *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Subject: Re: Hitler
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:20:08 GMT


Hi,

I read in social.religion.islam about a discussion in s.c.j. about the
Grand Mufti of Palestine, Haj Amin el-Husseine. I don't know if, and
if so, how much this man knew about the holocaust, but I can confirm
that he was several times in Germany between 1940-45, and that he
visited the Hancer division, a division comprising of Muslims from the
then "independent" Kroat state, which was under German control. This
division was sent to Germany and then to south west France to drill
them and train them. They were returned in 1944 to Kroatia, but had to
leave the now Ex-Yugoslavia at the end of 1944/beginning of 1945, as
Germans were retreating. Those who were unwilling to leave their
country were all sent to a concentration camp.

Now, to the Mufti: if he was a collaborator or if he knew about the
holocaust and continued to have contacts (which is very likely if he
met Eichmann and Heydrich, for instance), then is he a criminal. In
the Holy Qur-aan, it is written:

2:
190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you,
and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those
who exceed the limits.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out
from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than
slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque
until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay
them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

192. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving,
Merciful.

193. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and
religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there
should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

There is no way to kill civilians in Islam. This is prohibited also
during war, and whoever does the holocaust or other similar thinks is
a murderer and an oppressor, and will (s)he will be like one who has
killed all living beings. He will be for ever in the Hell, for sure,
except those who see that they wronged themselves and repent. For
those, perhaps God will forgive their sins. 


--

_________________________________________________________________ _ _______
     ________  	A. Ekrem SABAN		 /    Technische Universitat Wien
   /|    |    ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/ Inst. f. Technische Informatik
  /_|__  |__			       /	     Abt. HW & VLSI  
 /  |       |		      	      /Tel   : (1)58801/8144 ( 7-13 UTC)
/   |___ ___|			     /Adr.: Treitlstr. 3, A-1040 Wien.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Mufti
Originator: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:39:04 GMT


I lost an article I was trying to reply to. The article insisted on the
cooperation of the Mufti with the Nazi's. 

If you are not sure, don't say it. You should learn a lesson from "Ralphie"
who is insisting that the Holocaust did not happen.

Nabil

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hbb@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (harlan.b.braude)
Subject: Re: Partial Passover Product List
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:18:20 GMT

In article <15892@bunny.GTE.COM> sgutfreund@gte.com writes:
>Background: Given the location of milk production (a Barn) where grain
>products are common there is a distinct worry about mixtures occuring.
>
>Answer: Adults avoid milk products altogether as a Chumrah, but there

Rabbi Meyer Bilitzky (the O rabbi where my parents used to live who is
a Posek and actively involved in the kashrut industry) said that people
should purchase food items to be used during the entire Pesach before
the start of the holiday.

The reason given was that on Pesach the prohibition against chametz is
for "kol she-hoo" (even the most minute particle) which implies that no
'bitul' (~cancelation) can occur, whereas the rest of the year the principle
of 'batul beshishim' (1/60) applies.

Hence, if despite one's best efforts there's a possibility that less than
1/60 quantity of chametz remains in a mixture prior to Pesach, it is
considered batul (canceled) once Pesach begins.

So, according to this view, KP milk, etc. purchased before Pesach can be
used on Pesach.

A Chag Kosher Ve'Sameach to everyone.
-- 
Harlan B. Braude
hbb@usl.com
From: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Halacha of US $
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:46:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: msuinfo.1992Apr17.024641.26825
Reply-To: friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


In my University newspaper yesterday (4-15-92) there was a re-print off of the AP or UPI
newswire services with the dateline Israel. (Judaic articles/re-prints are only negative. 
This way who can argue with UPI?)

It stated that an Orthodox Rabbi in Bnai B'rak has decided that pious Jews are not allowed
to bring US dollar bills into the bathroom with them.  The given reason is that "In G-d We
Trust" is written on them.  

Has anyone read this (I misplaced it)?  

I realize that when washing before a meal in a bathroom, one should wait until he/she is out of
the bathroom before saying the bracha.  I am not sure about this one!!!


Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Michigan State University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: On Hiding one's Beliefs
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:31:29 GMT

How sad.  Someone asks  about pigeons curing hepatitis.  Dan Shimoff
suggested that it wasn't a Jewish practice.  R' Alter posts  in Ivris
that there is a source  in Ta'amei haMinhagim (but, as I understand it,
that the practice  is folk-medicine rather than halakhic or in any sense
fundamentally Jewish in nature).

Then Michael Shimshoni accuses R. Alter of  cowardice, and someone 
else call Michael a "boor" (from memory; the post scrolled off my
machine), and the flames begin.

If there is any _substance_ to be discussed, let's stick to the
substance.  But name calling and ad hominem charges don't add
anything to our understanding.

Isn't it curious that just last week we read of the Metzorah,
ahd the korban he/she brings -- pigeons.  Why pigeons?  Maybe
because, at least in this case, it was pigeons that started
the Motzi Shem Ra.

Let's try to raise the level  of discussion a notch.


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Ralphie
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:51:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.170932.16497@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>Hold your barkes Leon. I was generalizing and I am not comparing you to 
>Ralphie. Please bear in mind that my native language is not English and
>sometimes I find it hard to express what I want to say. 
>
>Did you say that you are the author of the book written about the Mufti?

No, I said that I was the author of the post that said
I have seen the photographs
I have read the transcripts
I have read the books.

>Nabil Idriss
>
>I'm not an Engineer, but I play one at NCR.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: RE: A Yiddish Had Gadya.
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:52:18 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem


Here is a Yiddish Had Gadya, which was used by Jason Elbaum
of Princeton's family and by my mother who still sings  it -
biz hundred und tsvantsig.  She hails from Zychlin and
later Plotsk in Central Poland.

A freyliche und kasheren yomtov.  Hag Same'aH.


__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
Jerusalem

*****************


Der liebe Herr hot geshikt a katz in vald arein,
a katz in vald arein,
zol den epl reisn.
Katz vil nisht epl reisn,
epl vil nisht faln, epl vil nisht faln.

Then the verses build up to:

De liebe Herr hot geshikt der malakh hamaves in vald arein,
der malach hamaves in vald arein,
zol den shoychet hargenen.
Malach hamaves vil nisht shoychet hargenen,
shoychet vil nisht ox shechtn,
ox vil nisht vaser trinken,
vaser vil nisht fayr leshn,
fayr vil nisht shtekn brenen,
shtekn vil nisht hint shlugn,
hint vil nisht katz baysn,
katz vil nisht epl reisn,
epl vil nisht faln, epl vil nisht faln.

And the grand finale:

Der liebe Herr hot alein gekimmen in vald arein,
gekimen in vald arein,
zol ir zein vos tu[i]tsukh.
Malach hamaves vil shoyn shoychet hargenen,
shoychet vil shoyn ox shechtn,
ox vil shoyn vaser trinken,
vaser vil shoyn fayr leshn,
fayr vil shoyn shtekn brenen,
shtekn vil shoyn hint shlugn,
hint vil shoyn katz baysn,
katz vil shoyn epl reisn,
epl vil shoyn faln, epl vil shoyn faln.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Quotes
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 15:53:02 GMT

In article <3816@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <1992Apr02.173759.15748@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>It is written in the Quran that the Jews will wander in the dark till the
>>>Day of Judgment."  This is a negative statement about Jews, and I called
>>>it that.
>>
>>There is a quote in the Quran that says " Oh  People of Israel, We have
>>given you a preference over all other people". I am looking up quotes
>>in the Quran about Jews and will keep you updated.
>>
>>Nabil Idriss
>
>Nabil is right. According to the Koran every paganist is sended after
>death to the 1st part of hell, christians are sended to the 5th part
>of hell and Jews to the 6th part of that place, Assuming that
>parts of hell are ordered according their comfort , one can conclude
>that  "Jews got preference over  all other peopel"
>
>
A rebelious Moslem will be sent to the worst part of Hell too.

Nabil
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: On Hiding one's Beliefs
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:45:19 GMT



Dov Krulwich wrote:
>>As he has said, the pigeon thing is given in Taamei
>>haMinhagim as a refuah and _not_ as a segula, so there's no vested religious
>>interest in the practice.  It's simply something that works.

Warren Burstein responded:
>If it works, we have an obligation to share it with the rest of the
>world.  If it doesn't work, we have an obligation to stop wasting sick
>people's money and strangling those pigeons and doing things that we
>would rather not discuss in public.
>
>I'm not assuming either (that it works, or that it doesn't), but I'm
>not going to assume that it does either because Taamei HaMinhagim says
>that it does (even when it says that it has been "baduk", verified) or
>because someone reports to have seen it work.
>
>Why does no one else here seem to care whether it works or not?!
>

Experimental trials of such a procedure are unlikely for a variety
of reasons (expense, obtaining subjects. etc.).  Personally, I
am, of course, skeptical.  But there are lots of well-accepted
treatments that have about as much scientific basis (try chiropractic,
most clinical psychology, and almost all clinical psychiatry).

Bottom line.  No pigeons for me.  But if the physicians, mi-she-berach's,
name-changes, and  chiropractors don't work, bring on the pigeons!



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: jcohen@sco.COM (Jon Cohen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Questions About Uncleanliness
Keywords: unclean menstruation
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 21:15:02 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.



I have two questions about Laws of uncleanliness as
stated in the book of Levitticus. I have never studied
these laws before this month, so I am really clueless.

1) Is being unclean equal to or similar to being bad?
   Is uncleanliness--for example, the uncleanliness of
   a menstruating woman--a kind of sin, or something the
   "unlcean" person should feel ashamed about?

   For example, a woman friend told me that she
   was introduced to an Hasid who did not want
   to shake her hand, because she might have been
   "unclean". In this situation, is the Hasid
   saying that she is bad or dirty or inferior in
   some way?


2) Why do Orthodox Jews continue to practice these Laws
   as they relate to menstruation, abstinence from
   sex, purification in a ritual bath--all in relation
   to sexual relations in marraige; yet, they do not
   practice the similar laws that relate to persons
   with skin diseases, etc.??

I am not asking because I want to criticize these Laws and
practices--I'm just trying, right now, to understand them
and the way they relate to the practice of Orthodox Judaism.

***
From: ai726@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alice Schubach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: talks.politics.mideast
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:20:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr12.002009.24291
Reply-To: ai726@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alice Schubach)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


>For your own information,if you were sleeping and just woke up, almost
>most of the arabs recognized Israel, otherwise they would not be at 
>the Peace Conference. It is Shamir's turn to get serious about it
>and get it moving.
>
For YOUR own information, the only Arab country that has recognized
Israel is Egypt. That was during the administration of President Jimmy
Carter, when Sadat took the daring step of going to Jerusalem to make
peace. The Arabs are at the peace conference, but they definitely have
not recognized Israel. This is simply a fact and is not a matter of dispute.

Alice Schubach
From: broner@acfcluster.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:11:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New York University

> There are two types of questions I'll attempt to answer, (a)
> does halacha allow vegetarianism, and (b) does the Torah prefer
> vegetarianism.  Naturally, I think both answers are "yes", which
> conclusion I shall try to justify.  Enough preamble, on to the meat,
> er, fruit of the article...

My wife and I used to be strict ovo-lacto vegetarians ala "Diet for a small
planet", so I have no problem with your desire to limit meat consumption.
But, if Halacha prefers vegetarianism, why all the laws of shechita and 
kashrus regarding meat? Why would the Torah play a mind game with us, rather 
than give a clear directive, in this issue? 
 
> Another question that is asked is "Would you eat Qarbanot
> [sacrifices]?"  The answer to this is an unequivocal "Yes!" ...But even were 
> animal sacrifices reinstituted, I would eat
> from them, as my objection is to the *needless* killing and eating of
> animals; qarbanot clearly serve an important purpose.  I do, after
> all, wear leather tefillin.

Good, so it's not meat you object to, it's you're procupation with waiting for
Moshiach that prevents overly enjoying meat. I'm deeply impressed <g>.
 
> The third main halachic objection to vegetarianism is that it is
> associated with avodah zarah [idolatry], and hence should be avoided
> as a matter of mar'is `ayin [something which, while not itself
> forbidden, looks like a forbidden act].  

I have had many vegetarians at my Shabbos Tish, and have found that they fall
into (basically) two different groups. Those that simply pass the meat plate to
the next person, and those that make a major issue of their vegetarianism. It
is the latter group that I think can be associated with avodah zora. They place
their "ism" on a pedestal, and make their "ism" more important than anything
else...even Torah, which at the very minimum "allows" us to eat meat.

With ahavas yisroel~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Chaim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel)
Subject: Re: Question to Miracle Analysts
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 09:29:36 GMT

In article <15919@bunny.GTE.COM> sgutfreund@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)  writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.155119.5846@tc.cornell.edu>, bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>|> I have a question for competent miracle analysts:
>|> 
>|> 	Do you consider Arafat's plane crash a miracle ? I mean the
>|> fact that only he survived and all the other died. Is it a sign from
>|> G-d that Israel should consider negotiating peace with him ?
>
>No, Afterall, Hitler had numerous close escapes with attempts
>on his life.
>
     It seems to me (an incompetent miracle analyst, to be sure) that there is
a possible pattern here (to which you might add Kaddafi's and Saddam Hussein's
escapes from American bombs).  G-d is very careful to preserve  the villains.
Perhaps  He doesn't want to make more of them than absolutely necessary?

Robert B. Israel
Department of Mathematics
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Following Sedar tradition
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 07:10:47 GMT

In article <9204032241.AA15896@relay2.UU.NET> br042@cleveland.freenet.edu writes:
>
>In article > hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>
>>I double checked with my rabbi (O) and he said that of course go with
>>the grape juice if the wine makes you sick.  I do know of some
>>people that dilute the wine with grape juice to bring it within
>>their own limits and others who use wine for the first and grape
>>juice for the others.  Some people use grape juice for the first
>>and wine for the last so as not to have alcohol on an empty stomach.
>>
>>The bottom line is do not make yourself sick.
>
>The only thing to remember is to distinguish between "sick" and suffering
>"discomfort".  If wine will make you sick either dilute it or drink grape
>juice.  If however you only suffer "discomfort" than you should still drink
>the wine and have the discomfort.

Is there a minimum size specified for a "cup" of wine?