HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Let's dump UCI
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1993Jan17.103501.22574@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1993Jan21.164332.10717@cgrg.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:09:59 GMT

Flip Phillips writes:
   So, hummm, let's see here, are we going to start refering to the
   Tour de France as the "Tour of France" and equally, "The Turn of
   Spain", and of course the ever popular "Spin of Italy". I'd bet
   there are a few acronym-generating net-writers that wouldn't be too
   happy with this.

Not a bad idea, but different from what I proposed.  Those are
national tours and the organizers get to name them whatever they want.
The International Cycling Union is an international body, like the
International Olympic Committee, and should be identified in whatever
language you are using.

Is the United Nations referred to by its English name in France?
After all, it was founded in the U.S. and has its headquarters here,
so applying the logic that some are using the French should call it
the UN.  I don't know, but I'll bet they don't.

--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Announcing 1st Annual Pick the Big Four Spring Classics Contest
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:17:40 GMT

In article <ll7f6tINN8bm@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes: 
>... I am proud to announce the 1st annual Spring Classic Contest.
...

>Note: there has been some concern about such contests on the net in that
>they may bring out the competitive side of us netters ...

Not on your life!  I am not about to put my TdF record (91:  the only
one to pick THE BEAR for the sprints; 92: bronze medal [tie]) on the
line for a bunch of dinky, less important races!  I am saving myself
for the big one (TIOOYK).


-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

In rec.bicycles.racing, dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:

> 
>     I recently upgraded my bike to STI.  When racing, is there any special
>     techniques for shifting while sprinting at full exertion while standing.
>     My bike never seems to shift correctly as it usually hesitates until I
>     almost stop pedaling totally.  Thanks for any hints!!!

Use Hyperglide sprockets and chains, they shift much smoother and quicker
under heavy load.  This benefit must be weighed against more $ and
maintenance hassle.

Keith Erskine
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Texas District Race Calendar Available by Anonymous FTP
Date: 25 Jan 1993 02:13:00 GMT
Organization: A&M Cycling Team, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Distribution: usa
	<1jpbtgINNhn5@tamsun.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.tamu.edu

I have posted and will continue to update the Texas District Race Calendar
as often as I can.  The most recent version is currently available by
anonymous FTP from "tamu.edu" in the file "incoming/uscf/uscf-tx-races";
I am willing to mail it as well.

I will post the updated version in about a week or two; there are already
some significant changes and additions to the version I posted just a
couple of days ago.  It has at least doubled in length.

Cheers.  If you know of any other Texas District races, please let me know
so I can add them to my list.
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas

PGP public key available on request.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: j_manning@uchicago.edu (joe manning)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: princeton
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:44:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: univ. of Chicago, oriental institute

anybody on the net who rides at princeton? i'd like to hear from you.By the
way i'll never, ever use my name "crash" again ( it's a high school name
from running a car into a  lightpost anyway)
joe
From: v008pcqu@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: GIF's
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:52:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1k923jINN6dr@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, bkp@eddy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bharat Patel) writes...
>In article <1993Jan25.200722.1763@athena.mit.edu>, ehernand@athena.mit.edu (Edward Hernandez) writes:
>|> 	Could someone please re-post that stuff that appeared a while ago about
>|> the cycling GIF's?  My bad I didn't get a chance to save it.
>|> 
>|> 							Eddie Hernandez
>|> 							MIT
> 
> 
>The location is: draco.acs.uci.edu
> 
>Bharat Patel

     There are also a few posted on alt.binaries.pictures.misc with a few more
yet to appear.  Any requests?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu (Patrick D. Walters)
Subject: Collegiate cycling - The End!!!
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:34:53 PST

I can sufficiently say that no one is going to change their mind on this one so
let's just agree to disagree and call an end to the bickering. I had thought
that more people would be supportive of my position in favor of Women's and
Men's Collegiate Championships. But, I guess I can't actually say that as
I think about 5 people participated in this debate.
 
I would like to say that I agree that the NWCCC is different than a lot
of conferences. as I think I have seen most conferences are different from
each other. I guess we are like little uncontrolled experiments. I guess
when the researchers (NCCA) see something they like they will apply to
the whole of collegiate cycling.
 
Hey thanks again for the spirited debate. I look forward to hopefully meeting
some of you at MIT. (Money and legs willing hehehe!)
 
talk to you all later keep training and stay off the crud!
--
Patrick David Walters                     President WSU Cycling Club
97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu                Race Dircetor WSU Stage Race
Undergrad Soc Minor in Fren and Bus         Send Mail for more info on
Washington State University   Pullman, WA   either !
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: Re: NCCA - Let's Fix It
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 00:30:57 PST

In article <1993Jan25.221908.12969@leland.Stanford.EDU>
polly@grover.Stanford.EDU (Polly Siegel) writes:
 
>In what other sport do the roads have to be closed to put on an event?  I
>think one of the factors that may influence this scoring combination is the
>logistics of putting on an event for cycling.  The different mens
>categories don't compete at the same time either... so what's the big deal
>about adding in women?
 
I have to address this issue as two people have mentioned it. That being the
idea of there being a logistical problem inherit in the issue. WHERE????
What is is this mythical logistics problem?? Men and Women do not ride
on the road at the same time. They do not compete in the same field.
Please clearify this logistics problem.
 
Also, in the NWCCC we do not allow
the A and B fields to ride together. We were going to do that at the WSU
race last year and UW brought 15 B riders, basically to flood the field.
Everyone realized how unfair that was and voted to have the fields
seperated. (In the NWCCC we only have A and B)
 
>One of the great things about collegiate cycling,
>in my opinion, is that it allows people of different skill levels to
>compete amongst people of their own skill abilities and still contribute
>to the overall team success.  The differences in abilities are
>acknowledged by giving more points to the elite categories.  In our
>conference, the women's points are adjusted based in part on the relative
>participation level of the women (in other words, the top women still
>don't count as much as the top men).
>
 
I disagree, the reason why points are awarded on a graduated scale is that
not every school is big enough to field an A B and C team. They basically
devalue the lower Cats. I can understand this within the one sex, but then
we further devalue women?? Come on! Let women have there own race and
acknowledge that they can do something without a man to help them!
 
>>
>> I think maybe a solution to this problem is to have a Men's National
>> Champion, a Women's National Champion and am Overall National Champion.
>> (I am speaking of team not individual here.)
>
>There already is a Men's National Champion and a Women's National Champion
>(overall, and for the individual RR and crit events).
 
I was speaking specifically of declaring one school as the Men's Champion
and another (could be the same in theory) as teh Women's Champion, and then
a combined Champion. This would be NO extra work, just a 10 minute longer
awards ceremony.
 
>
>- polly
 
--
Patrick David Walters                     President WSU Cycling Club
97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu                Race Dircetor WSU Stage Race
Undergrad Soc Minor in Fren and Bus         Send Mail for more info on
Washington State University   Pullman, WA   either !
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: NCCA - Let's Fix It
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:37:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.232836.1@jaguar.csc.wsu.edu> f0471913@jaguar.csc.wsu.edu writes:
>
>The basic dilemma is should collegiate cycling attempt to become a NCAA sport
>or should it continue as a club sport under the direction of the NCCA? Both of
>these options have several advantages and disadvantages which should be
>considered.

There is no guarantee that NCAA membership would do anything positive
for the collegiate scene, indeed there is every indication that NCAA
membership would be an unmitigated disaster.  The 4 year rule alone
would lock out a large number of older students.  Under NCAA rules if 
you attended a semester a few years ago you would be _completely_ineligible_ 
to compete in collegiate races _ever_again!  This is just one of many 
reasons why collegiate cyclists have been adamant about not joining the 
NCAA for as long as I can remember.

>So, to address the question at hand: Should men's and women's squads be split
>for qualifying for nationals? 
>-Dave

I guess my question with regards to the combined Nationals squads would 
be:  What good does it do to combine men's and women's teams for an overall
title?  It has clearly caused a lot of resentments over the years,
from both sides of the coin.  The only proponent we've heard from in
rec.bicycles.racing, Polly, believes that the format encourages a
closer participation and more collegial atmosphere between the 2 teams
but I'm not sure I agree.  Other sports, whose athletes can train
together and who have separate titles, don't seem to have problems
with cross-participation.  The current format merely re-allocates the
points in a less than optimal, and often less than fair manner with no
compelling benefits (IMHO).

Roger Marquis
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: dick@ncs.com (Dick Anderson)
Subject: Colo Cyclist's USCF club
Organization: National Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:44:01 GMT

I think it was last spring I received a Colorado Cyclist's
catalogue which had a solicitation for riders to join
their USCF club.  For a certain price, you became a member
of their club, could wear their jersey at races, were immune
to unattached surcharges, got a discount on certain items,
and got a newsletter.  Anyone from any part of the country
could join.

Since then, I've received several Colorado Cyclist's catalogues
and I haven't seen anything about this club.  What happened?
Do they still accept memberships in this way?  Does the USCF
object to this sort of mail order bike club membership?  Does
anyone know?

-- 

Dick Anderson
Minneapolis

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ehernand@athena.mit.edu (Edward Hernandez)
Subject: GIF's
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:07:22 GMT

	Could someone please re-post that stuff that appeared a while ago about
the cycling GIF's?  My bad I didn't get a chance to save it.

							Eddie Hernandez
							MIT
From: mike@scimitar.cchem.berkeley.edu (C. Michael McCallum)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Collegiate Cycling - Qualifying for Nationals
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:12:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: scimitar.cchem.berkeley.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

DANG my post got munged 1/2-way thru...

97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu wrote:
: So, you are saying that when a man wins a race and gets 22 points and a
: wins a race on the same course and gets 10 points, we are not placing
: less value on the woman racer. It looks like we are to me! (Anytime
: we place less value on the results achieved by person because they are
: of a differenet sex, race, gender orientation than the majority group
: we are just as guilty of bigotry, biase and stereotyping as any
: slave owner.
:  
OK, here...

M C(RR): 20,16,13,10,9,8,7,6,5,3,2,1	(12 places)
M D and W B(RR) 12,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1	(9 places)

So I don't know how you feel about this, but this seems pretty fair to
us (Polly?).  Like I said, if a woman's A gets 10 points for a win,
and a men's A gets 22 points, that is not a good thing.  So fix it.

: >I had previously hoped that this thread might die, as it seems that
: >about all the arguments have been threshed out, but it seems there is
: >a pretty fundamental difference between the collegiate cycling
: >experience at WSU and my previous time at Stanford.  I am a little
: >unhappy  that it seems the stress on teamwork and comradery that I
: >found to be the greatest hallmark of collegiate cycling isn't
: >duplicated everywhere.  It is too bad.
:  
: I am sorry that you feel that way. I am sorry that the experience of
: treating women as second rate cyclists is so popular in the NCCA!!
: I love the sport of cycling and we at WSU do everything we can to
: encourage all people of any group to compete. I am very sensitive
: to this issues as President of the club and as an RA on three very
: non-traditional floors.  I think that you have a flawed sense of
: teamwork where you can value someone's contribution to the team as
: less important than that of your own.

OK, fine.  Baird took the time to post a well-thought-out opinion
(I thought), and you feel the need to say this.  Fact is, you have
no idea how much value Baird did/does place on his teammates.  I don't
either.  But I do know a bit where he comes from.  The WCCC does a 
good job for all it's riders.  All categories are well-represented in
team officers, if I can get any indication from our Conference meeting.
I'm sure Polly has a different outlook, if only because she is female.

So, should all categories contribute to a team score?  I think so.  You
don't.  Fine.  But turning this into the biggest injustice since the
Birmingham buses is kind of extreme.

--Mike
From: webel@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Collegiate cycling as NCAA sport
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:35:53 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

I think that aiming for collegiate cycling as an NCAA sport would be a mistaken
goal.  The biggest problem that I see is that, as I understand it, the NCAA
prohibits athletes from accepting money or other prizes.  Thus, collegiate
riders could not participate, or at least no accept money for USCF races.  I
think this would drastically cut the number of collegiate riders.  
Also, given the apparent general tightness of college budgets, I don't see too
many athletic departments wanting to add more sports.
Lastly, I really like the relatively laid back atmosphere of 
collegiate cycling and would rather keep it the way it is.  If the sport continues to grow, I can
see it as an NCAA sport eventually, but that seems a long way off to 
me.

baird
webel@guvax.georgetown.edu

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mprime@titanium.Berkeley.EDU (Michael B. Prime)
Subject: Re: NCCA - Let's Fix It
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:36:04 GMT

In article <16B5ECC9A.97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
>In article <1jp2mqINNlp8@tamsun.tamu.edu>
>ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes:
> 
>>2.  We need some help from USCF and NCCA in terms of advertising the sport
>>    to college students.  Some slick leaflets printed for NCCA with a
>>    space for a stamp of the local club might be enough.
> 
>I think this is a great idea. Who do I call? (yoo hoo mike?) :)

The NCCA is always trying to promote the sport. This is done by staff
at the USCF and I don't have any details. Whi would they send these flyers
to? Realize also, that the staff spends most of the bugeted time for
NCCA stuff doing club/rider paperwork. Any significant increase in staff
time would require raising some fees.
> 
Mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: Re: Collegiate Cycling - Qualifying for Nationals
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 16:26:27 PST

What I was saying is that large schools who can field more riders do have an ad
vantage over smaller schools who can field only an A team. Do you see the
benefit of being larger now?
 
You could win the race on A points and because a school has 2xs as many
students they field more riders get B and C points and they win. Thus, it
becomes the larger schools beat the little schools. Its all based on
size, not skill!!
 
Why do women's points count for less than men's? Its because some schools
can't field a full women's team. Why not treat them as equals and give them
their own title and races? Why treat them like second class racers who are
only worth 3/5. (remember the last time we treated people as less than a
whole?)
 
--
Patrick David Walters                     President WSU Cycling Club
97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu                Race Dircetor WSU Stage Race
Undergrad Soc Minor in Fren and Bus         Send Mail for more info on
Washington State University   Pullman, WA   either !
From: ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Collegiate Racing Points for USCF???????????
Date: 25 Jan 1993 05:28:32 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.tamu.edu

Daniel H. McCauley IV of Bethlehem, Penna., sez:
    Yes, I read the post by ????? which argued over the fairness of using
    collegiate points to upgrade to USCF.  Is this permitted?  Thanks!!!

Points from collegiate racing may not be used for upgrade by performance
in USCF.  The fact that you have raced in a collegiate race may be used
for upgrading by experience, at least for the upgrade from 5 to 4.

There is a new set of upgrading rules for 1993 which has apparently not
been published by the Federation.  (At least, I have not received my copy.)

You might want to wait until they arrive to decide whether collegiate races
might help you upgrade.  You could also contact your USCF District Repre-
sentative.  My experience in Texas is that the upgrading rules are often
less stringently applied than one might expect by reading the rulebook.
--
Kurt F. Sauer
College Station, Texas

PGP public key available on request.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: freeman@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Kevin Freeman)
Subject: Wanted: Info on Yeti A.R.C.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:27:45 GMT

  I would like anyinfo possible on the new Yeti's and also any on old
ARCs'. I have heard lots on problems with the frame bending etc. Any info
would be appreciated.


 Kev
freeman@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: Re: NCCA - Let's Fix It
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 10:57:29 PST

In article <1993Jan23.024250.2111@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>
webel@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
 
>
>I agree wholeheartedly on the question of NCAA sanction, but I would
>like to stand up as a proponent for leaving collegiate racing the way
>it is in terms of combining men's and women's squads.  The way I would
>look at it is that each school is represented by one team, which is
>made up of both men and women, thus it is quite natural for both to
>count for the national title.
 
Hmm let's see here. You say that it is quite logical for the men's and women's
teams to compete together for a combined title. Well, please tell me in what
other sport this occurs.  In what sport do the men and women fight for a
combined trohpy but never actually compete at the same time in the same
arean!
 
I think maybe a solution to this problem is to have a Men's National
Champion, a Women's National Champion and am Overall National Champion.
(I am speaking of team not individual here.)
 
>The biggest practical reason I can see for the current situation is
>that it provides an incentive for men to recruit women into the sport,
>and vice versa.  Cycling is a very elitist sport, with a lot of
>knowledge to be passed from experienced to inexperienced riders and I
>think one of the good things about collegiate cycling is that it gives
>a powerful incentive for this transfer to occur.
>I get the feeling that some think that it is unfair, that a group of
>good male riders, or a group of good female riders, is held back from
>nationals due to their lack of more members of the opposite sex.  If
>this is one team, however, this doesn't make any sense.  In any team sport
>there are plenty of great athletes who may never get to compete for a
>championship because the rest of their team is not up to the task.
>Collegiate cycling is a team sport, so there will be good riders who
>don't make it because of the rest of the team, but I don't understand
>why the rules should be changed to accomodate this.
 
We are not talking about a great running back on the football team that
sucks. We are talking about the Women's Basketball team being denied
a championship based on the results of the Men's team. It is the
exact same thing!! If we want to have a combined title let's have
combined races!!!
 
>I welcome any further thoughts on the matter.
>
>Baird
>webel@guvax.georgetown.edu
 
--
Patrick David Walters                     President WSU Cycling Club
97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu                Race Dircetor WSU Stage Race
Undergrad Soc Minor in Fren and Bus         Send Mail for more info on
Washington State University   Pullman, WA   either !
From: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de (Roland Stahl)
Subject: Almeria (E) cycling info needed
Reply-To: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de
Organization: IPI University of Hannover
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:52:50 GMT

Hi net.cyclers,

At the end of february i will go to Almeria (Spain) to collect kilometers
for the oncoming season. Can anyone provide me with informations about that
region (weather- and street conditions, best trips ...).

Thanks in advance, Roland

  
======================================================================
Roland Stahl                      |  Email: stahl@ipi.uni-hannover.de
Institute of Photogrammetry       |  
University of Hannover            |  Phone: ..49/511/762-5556
Nienburger Str.1                  |
3000 Hannover 1, Germany          |
======================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing