From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


>Important Pieces of the Discussion After Spoiler:



>>     Is hiding on Vulcan for three months while being tried in absentia
>>     the act of a man willing to immediately face the music?

>>     Why is Kirk allowed the breadth of discretion to ^think^ and ^plan^
>>     when he is going to follow Starfleet orders and Federation subpoenas
>>     and Locarno is not?
> 
>1) Because there was no missing information that Kirk had to provide;
>   they knew what he did, and why. The only one he could possibly harm
>   by waiting to go back was himself. Well, he could hurt the ones who
>   collaborated as well, but it's my guess he gave them the option to
>   go back on their own.

     Kirk was put on trial between the end of ST III and ST IV by the
     Federation Council.  He was tried in absentia because he refused
     to leave political asylum (or "exile," as Kirk terms it in IV) on
     Vulcan when ordered to do so.  This isn't the kind of order which
     anyone, of any rank, is allowed "breadth of discretion" to
     interpret.  
     They knew what Kirk did and why?  No, they accused him of what
     he did and alleged motivations in it.  His decision to stay on
     Vulcan (how could he possibly assist in the "retraining of {Spock's}
     mind in the vulcan way..." to quote Amanda?) was logical (look at
     where he was) not emotional - he needed time to plan his defense
     strategy, and missed his trial (hiding out) to do so.


>2) The fact is he did go back. There was no going back from the course
>   that Locarno chose, that of hiding the truth. Once they had successfully
>   done that, going back later and telling what really happened would have
>   been suicide.

     Kirk's return would have been suidice as well if not for the incredibly
     convenient deues ex machina of the whale probe.  

>3) Motives. Locarno hid the truth, and was willing to disgrace the memory
>   of a comrade, all for the sake of his career (and, if we are to be gene-
>   rous, the careers of his surviving comrades). Kirk may have stayed on
>   Vulcan to save his neck, but it's my suspicion that the larger reason
>   he stayed was to wait for (and probably assist in) his friend's re-
>   cuperation.

     As I said, I doubt he was sitting by Spock's bedside the whole 90
     days and how would he have assisted in the "Vulcan retraining of
     Spock's mind." ??

>4) More motives. Kirk did what he did (hijacked the Enterprise, disobeyed
>   orders, and then destroyed the Enterprise) for the sake of his friend;
>   Locarno did what he did (coerced his teammates into performing the
>   whatsiscalled maneuver) for personal aggrandizement (and again, if we
>   are to be generous, for the prestige it would bring to his team as a
>   whole).

     Agreed somewhat.  You could almost say that Kirk refused to let
     the memory of his friend be tarnished while Locarno was willing
     to tarnish the memory of ^his^ friend to salvage the living
     teammates.  

     If presented in just such a fashion, Spock himself would have
     agreed: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.


>>>>     Let's remember who cheated on the Kobyashi Maru simulation.
>>> 
>>>    Cheating on the Kobyashi Maru simulation was not likely to get anyone
>>>even hurt, much less killed. Therefore, it is a totally different issue.
>>
>>     Beyond the death involved, cheating on an incredibly important
>>     Academy exit-exam is a much bigger breach of regulations than
>>          performing an against-the-rules maneuver.
> 
>1) We're not talking about regulations, we're talking about ethics.

     We're talking about both, actually - the ethics involved in
     the decision to follow or not to follow regulations :).

>2) While there is evidence that the Kobayishi Maru is a major test that
>   every cadet must take, there is no evidence that it is an exit-exam.
>   What would be the point of making the exit-exam one that everyone
>   would fail, and one that anyone could retake as many times as they
>   wanted?

     Sure there is.  It's what Saavik was doing and she was fresh
     from her senior year at the Academy, according to the longer
     TV version of TWOK.


>3) "Beyond the death involved"? That's the bloody point!! The maneuver was
>   made illegal BECAUSE of the possibility for death involved!!

     Agreed.

>4) If it is in fact a bigger issue, regulations-wise, why then was Kirk
>   given a commendation?

     Sounds to me like Kirk meant, "got a commendation for original thinking,"
     because his breach was so unexpected and unplanned for that they
     didn't know what else to do with him.

>5) back to point #1: I just realized that I opened myself up for the
>   response, "Yeah right, ethics! Cheating on a major exam is a HUGE
>   breach of ethics!" It seems clear, from the fact that the Kobayashi
>   Maru test could be retaken many times (Kirk took it three times) that
>   normal rules of exam-taking do not apply. This is a test, it seems,
>   that is meant more to TEACH than to actually evaluate the worth of
>   the cadet.

     Yeah, I had thought of that :)...  
     Kirk says the Kobayashi Maru is a "test of character, there is
     no correct resolution."  That as a given, it would be destructive
     to cadets and officer candidates not to let them take it again -
     until they feel they have come as far as they can in preparing
     to deal with the no-win situation.

     Anyway, remember?  You can take the SAT's as many times as you
     want too...  


          ^Hot Damn, That Pie Was Good!^
                     Common Phrases Heard at
                     RR Diner #32.

          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu^