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Posted-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:59:08 EDT
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:59:08 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      speed read this
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

To discern this relevance, we need only recall, first of all, that within that
theory the placing, naming, and motivating functions of the proairetic, and
its predominance in conventional narrative, are held to be defining symptoms
of the constitutive *oedipality* of such narrative energies and desires, or
perhaps more precisely of the binding, sublimation and cntainment of such
 desire;
just as the atemporal and never-fully-repressible bursts and upswellings of
the semic are identified with the carnivalesque freedom of the unregulated,
 post-,p
post-, pre-, or even anti-Oedipal society and individual body.  Then all we
have to do is notice how insofar as such definitions and categories do hold
water for us, __Blue Velvet__ gets them--though once again, only sort of--
wrong from the get-go, observing this oppositional distinction and flouting
it at the same time by reversing what might have thought was their "natural"
order: for what kind of narrative text is it, after all, in which the fall
of the father is *preceded* by an image-flow predominantly semic in nature,
but *followed* by one that more or less falls obediently into story-plotting
line?


	Somewhat easier in context, but still hard to take in at a glance.
For graduate school these days, as lots of you out there are well aware,
this is about average difficulty. There's other stuff with less jargon but
more difficult concepts. Things that have to be read ten or more times and
thought over before they might dawn on one--or at least me. Only to point out
some constraints on speed.
	I was also thinking how, as Chris points out, sentences are written
to be experienced sequentially: the cadences are carefully measured out, and
the experience is meant to be sequential, not spatial and simultaneous. And
in poetry, one comma can make an enormous amount of difference, and poets
have crafted carefully on that level. I'm willing to grant that much of the
kind of appreciation I speak in favor of is in fact being accomplished by
fast readers in a way I do not understand, but even after all of our dis-
cussion, it remains a mystery how so much can be absorbed so quickly. Doesn'
comprehension sometimes ask for pauses? Michael B.
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Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:03:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Trollope

"I don't do speed reading"
"I found that I was reading . . . fiction at 200 pages an hour"

What the hell's goin on here?

mcdonald
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:20:00 PDT
From:         naomi seeger <ECZ5SEE@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Milorad Pavic'

> >  "It was as though his right hand were more sinful than the left,
> >   after all."
> >
> I take this to refer to either, "if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off",
> or possibly, the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.


no- how about the superstition that the left hand was of the devil?  in
heraldic terms, bar sinister means illegitimacy, often the fruit of sin,
and is on the left side.  "sinistra" "gauche" both mean left.  talk to
any southpaw and most will have a story about some teacher or parent determined
to force them to do things right-handed, convinced to the core that this
was important, the *right* thing to do.

naomi
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:51:23 EDT
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From:         Pauline Hodges --D65 x2701-- <PRH65@CAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re(2): Re(2): Changes at the New Yorker
Comments: To: Tim Bowden <tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us>

Difference between the New Yorker and the Atlantic:

New Yorker has a standard format?

New Yorker has few, unobtrusive graphics? (What effect do fancy graphics have on
our perception of what we read?  Do they shape them differently than if we just
dealt with the words?

New Yorker seems more timeless somehow, like maybe the issues and topics are
deeper?

As you can see, I'm not sure what the difference is--but there must be one
because I'm a total fan of the New Yorker, but only pick up the Atlantic from
time to time.

Polly H.
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From: stalling@milton.u.washington.edu (Mike Stallings)
Subject: Re: Graham Greene
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 05:36:31 GMT

I believe it was "End of the Affair," and yes, I read it about 15 years ago.
I think it was the first GG novel I read and I liked it a lot. I liked it 
because it showed how passion and lust in human affairs is just a stalking
horse for a passion and lust for some kind of unity with something greater
and more fulfilling.  That being my first novel of his, I did not realize just
how seriously he took Catholicism; I would have to say that knowing that about
him probably dilutes my reading of "End of the Affair."

I eventually read all of his stuff, although I don't remember the story about
the old man and the boy. Maybe it would be good to start over on him . . .

.....Mike Stallings.....stalling@u.washington.edu
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:14:24 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Gone with the Wind
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

In the newest New Yorker issue (8/31) there is a long, and I think
interesting article about _Gone with the Wind_, and its relationship
to "literature".  As with many New Yorker articles, I may never have
time to actually read the whole thing (tho I hope I do!) but here is
a sample:

    The much remarked "readability" of the book must have played a
    part in the smooth passage from the page to the screen, since
    "readability" has to do not only with freedom from obscurity but,
    paradoxically, with freedom from the actual sensation of reading
    -- of the tug and traction of words as they move thoughts into
    place in the mind.  Requiring, in fact, the least reading, and
    making the least investment in an embodying language, the most
    "readable" book allows its characters to slip most easily through
    nets of words and into other forms.  Popular art has been well
    defined by just this effortless movement from medium to medium,
    which is carried out, as Leslie Fiedler observed in relation to
    "Uncle Tom's Cabin", "without loss of intensity or alteration of
    meaning."  Isabel Archer rises from the page only in the hanging
    garments of Henry James's prose, but Scarlett O'Hara is a free
    woman.

Incidentally, is anyone else out there worried about the impending
changes at The New Yorker (Tina Brown coming on board as new editor)?
A writer I like, Elizabeth Drew, who did the "Letter From Washington"
column, has already, I hear, gotten the axe.
                                                --Tom
-------
Tom Frenkel,    Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center,
161 Ft. Washington Ave.,  DAP-1310,  New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
<<< Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer >>>
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 09:35:18 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: New Yorker and some new ideas for threads...
Comments: To: Millie Niss <millie@GONDOR.MATH.COLUMBIA.EDU>,
              LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> Date:          Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:22:38 GMT
> From:          Millie Niss <millie@GONDOR.MATH.COLUMBIA.EDU>

Hi... welcome to a fellow New Yorker and Columbian!

> surprised me...  Anyway the prevailing view among my friends is that
> the article failed to tell why the Chudnovskys are considered to be
> good mathematicians.

... agreed ...

> poems), anything about 20th C. poetry (not writing it or the newest
> poets but more a discussion of poems a lot of readers of this list
> will have read),

Ever read any of David Shapiro's poems?  A fellow (former) Columbian,
I believe.  One of my favorite more-recent poets....
                                                        --Tom
-------
Tom Frenkel,    Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center,
161 Ft. Washington Ave.,  DAP-1310,  New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:35:58 PDT
From:         Tim Bowden <tcbowden@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Re(2): Changes at the New Yorker

Yes, yes, the New Yorker is like visiting the office of a
very learned and well-traveled editor who shows you first
mail from the most interesting correspondents (next to
my own) and then we proceed to take a walk around the
neighborhoods and then he deposits you at the door of
where a discussion proceeds on the nature and nurture
of the Great Plains and only at the end of it do you
find it's McPhee and all along there are the very witty
cartoons on the walls with out-takes from other presses
and other voices on other topics in other rooms.

Will they still refuse ads from booze and tobacco corporations?

I was hoping to see by now some reactions to the question
which would distinguish New Yorker from Atlantic.  I suspect
a powerful factor is that the former has been a part of the
various personal landscape for so many for so long, but I
want to hear more detailed views from others.
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From: EILDONS@UNC.BITNET (Jane L Hyde)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Canetti
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:26:00 GMT
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I made the remark about having to read dense nonfiction quickly, and
I'm afraid I haven't any thoery, though it might have to do with
"clumping" and such.  The remark was based on my own experience and per-
haps has a simple rationale.  It's just that if you read too slowly you
get bogged down in single words and can't grasp the meaning of phrases
and paragraphs.  I once had the experience of helping a very poor reader
and indifferent high school student with her American History readings.
I found that she couldn't understand what she was reading in large
part because she read so slowly that she was reading a word at a time.
I helped her somewhat by trying to teach her to speed up but more by
doing some prereading exercises with her, the study skilss kind of thing
s that aren't taught widely enough -- you know, skimming the headings,
reading to answer questions etc (I found out for instance that she'd
begin "reading" a chapter without even knowing the subject (Civil War,
for instance).  Anyway, I feel there's a certain minimum speed below
which you are reading single words; you have to read at the prase
level to get any meaning.  Also, in some unfamiliar kinds of writing
it takes a page or two to get into the groove, as it were; then it
flows more easily; you might have to go back and begin again as well.
    Well, we're getting into education here, but it's interesting,
to me anyway.  Any more ideas?
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:30:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Zen

And while I'm thinking of it, how bout those tea ceremony scenarios in *Shogun*?
mbmcd
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:12:00 CDT
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Milorad Pavic'

I must be incipiently dyslexic, because I keep seeing Milorad as "Milord."

"It was as though his right hand were more sinful than the left, after all."

This strikes me as a rather straightforward, and extremely humorous reference
to masturbation, though it's still a great taboo to admit that one knows
anything about this subject from personal experience.

mbmnotmccoll
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:14:18 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Milorad Pavic'

"It was as though his right hand were more sinful than the left, after all."

>This strikes me as a rather straightforward, and extremely humorous reference
>to masturbation, though it's still a great taboo to admit that one knows
>anything about this subject from personal experience.

>I take this to refer to either, "if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off",
>or possibly, the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.

  Well...  All of these ideas had occurred to me - however, (and there
was another reference to right hands vs left hands) I don't think that
any of them are really what Pavic' is trying to convey.  Actually, I
imagined that it was something more to the effect of the right hand
being the hand used for work - as opposed to the left, and thus the left
would be the idle (devil's work?) hand.  But again, that is flimsy based
on the generic Western tradition.  I rather suspect there is some Serbian
anecdote about it that I am simply unaware of.

>>  "Like the devil in church, he was at pains to recognize his
>>   own text."

>"The Devil can quote scripture to his own purpose," I rather think.

  Again, I immediately thought of this interpretation as well, but
it isn't quite the same thing for the devil to quote from scripture
as it is for the devil to have *written* scripture.  I imagine again
some anecdote designed to point out the difference between religious
dogma and religious scripture - which involved the devil looking to
discover how many of his works became adopted into religious dogma.
  (Something grossly similar to "The Grand Inquisitor" from
_The Brothers Karamazov_ - an engaging book of continuing relevance,
but more on that later....  ;-)


                 -Tim"everybody needs a Yugo sometime"J
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:27:00 EST
From:         MARGARET WRIGHT <MWRIGHT@TRINCC.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Trollope

I would submit that *Ulysses*, *To the lighthouse*, and *The sound and the fury*
are stylistic masterpieces that cannot be duplicated.  On the other hand the
19th century blockbusters are less easily separated from othe works by their
authors because their theme was the human comedy/tragedy of the ordinary man
(and woman).  It is the entire canvas rather than the individual works that I
find so incredible.  And of course the novel did not exist in isolation - the
art, music, political development, all while building on the 18th century
enlightenment did create a period between the end of the Napoleonic Wars and
1914 that to a later historian may seem as unique (and as temporary) as 5th
century Greece.
                Maggie Wright
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Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 09:39:16 EDT
From:         "Paul G. Beidler" <pgb3@LEHIGH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: my syllabus
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

>Can I be the first to make an obvious comment? Only one female author seems
>a little unbalanced, given the contribution women have made to the genre.

Which one is she?  And what's wrong with unbalanced women?
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:15:03 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Dostoyevskian translations
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> Date:          Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:59:04 EDT
> From:          Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>

> One final remark - the translation you choose can make all the
> difference.  Do yourself a favor and *don't* read David Magarshak,
> a prolific, if completely pedestrian, translator.  I would also
> avoid Constance Garnett's translation.

I really like Garnett's translation of, at least, _Crime &
Punishment_ (the only one I remember well enough to comment on).
Perhaps it's (inevitably) old-fashioned in some ways, but I think
there are more important things to look for in translations.
Something about the tone just seems right.
                                                --Tom
-------
Tom Frenkel,    Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center,
161 Ft. Washington Ave.,  DAP-1310,  New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:59:00 EDT
From:         MJOSEPH@ZODIAC.BITNET
Subject:      new yorker errata

"The printer errs, I err much as the rest"

please add to "Tina Brown is unquestionably a brilliant and successful" the
line "player (But whatever can you mean by 'I wish there were more Tina Browns?'
and to the line  "the aims of publishing are thoroughly incompatible if not anta
   gonistic to" add the line "the aims of writing."

ohoh, my dribbleglass computer!

mjoseph
rutgers u
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:09:44 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Foreign Language Dictionaries Online
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              92 1:50 pm

>
> Please reply directly to the author.
>
> I am seeking information on foreign language dictionaries available
> through the Internet. If you know of any, please send e-mail to:
>
> Dale Foster
> Coordinator of Online & CD-ROM Search Services
> University of South Alabama Library
> ULDF@USOUTHAL.BITNET
>
If you discover any, could you please POST the results - we would like
to know, too.

Agnes Kruchio
kruchio@epas.utoronto.ca
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:28:22 -0900
From:         the First and Only Nude Vaxer <FSCLL@ALASKA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changes at the New Yorker

Well, I am not worried about the changes at New Yorker--
I would much rather see a little Vanity Fair slickness
than the boring rag the New Yorker has become over the last five or six
years-- maybe I will have a reason to resubscribe (maybe they will start
choosing their fiction and poetry by wuality rather than name or the current
rave)
maybe I'm going to get flamed for this   :)

chris
maybe a poet and a pauper
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Name: Christopher Mark Conn
Organization: SAS Institute Inc., Austin, Texas
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:36:33 CDT
From:         Christopher Mark Conn <sascmc@UNX.SAS.COM>
Subject:      Dianne Ackerman and A Natural History of the Senses
Comments: To: literary <literary%ucf1vm.bitnet@unx.sas.com>

I've been reading _A Natural History of the Senses_ and have
really been enjoying it. Can anybody give me some background on
Dianne Ackerman? Has anybody read any of her other works?

  ___                          ___
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\\___ hristopher ||    | ark \\___ onn                       sascmc@unx.sas.com
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:43:35 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Zen

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: s1mbm@isuvax.bitnet

ST> If you haven't read Gary Snyder on Zen, he's the man
ST> (which remains true even if you have read him).  Again,
ST> titles gladly proffered upon request.


The most vivid picture I have of Gary Snyder, as well
as of William Burroughs and even Ginsberg, is through the
eyes of Kerouac.  Japhy Ryder (Snyder) was the hero of
_Dharma Bums_, and glimpses of the resurgent West Coast side
of the intellectual renaissance the Fifties spawned are worth
revisiting.
--- eecp 1.45 LM2
 * Origin: Fort Knox  (1:216/509)
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:43:22 CDT
From:         Julie Lindner <julie@MUDHONEY.MICRO.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gibson/Sterling/Irving
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Aug 25, 92 1:24 pm

IAN YORK sez:

: >1) The Difference Engine - Sterling and Gibson (1991). I got this on
: >the recommendation of a friend, I find it VERY slow going.
:         I read this a couple months ago and I agree with you.  Gibson is
: an excellent writer; _Neuromancer_ is the best SF I've read in 15 years,
: which covers a lot of SF.  However, I've found Sterling to be really
: annoying.  He seems to want to imitate Gibson (the so-called "cyberpunk"
: genre) but he doesn't seem to realize that it's more than some nifty gadgets.
: He writes traditional SF, in other words, with a veneer of cyberpunk-type
: technology.  (Actually, this is the case for all the cyberpunk movement.
: There's Gibson and then there's all his imitators.)  Anyway, The Difference
: Engine had some wonderful moments, in which there really was that clear
: realization of a truly different society: what would Victorian England have
: been like, if there had been computers there?  But then it's all thrown
: away in an incoherent, action-type plot which doesn't make any use of the
: potentially wonderful background.  I would bet that Gibson set up the back-
: ground, and Sterling wrote the plot around it.  Do read Gibson's work, if
: you haven't already.

Another cyberpunk writer I would recommend is Pat Cardigan.  Her work
is very reminiscent of Gibson's but done with her own flair and a
great deal of talent.
--
  Julie Lindner                | I want your hair        so everywhere I go
                               | to cover me with maps   will be as beautiful
  julie@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu | of new places,          as your hair.    RB
  ___________________________________________________________________________
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