HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mail Format for Digest (3)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 09:52:53 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 05:03:02 EDT
From:         IN%"robertroyar@delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug25.050302.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Mail Format for Digest (3)
Reply-to:     IN%"robertroyar@delphi.com"  Robert Royar
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

We're in the process of moving some of our operations to my acccount on DELPHI
(robertroyar@delphi.com), and with that move I hope (eventually) to expand
some of our coverage.  John Anderson has requested some changes in the Digest
format (Table of Contents and End Section).  I'd be glad to entertain any
suggestions that are aimed at making the Digest more readable and easier to
extract for readers to extract individual messages.  I believe the Digest as
currently formatted is extractable via EMACS.  But I haven't the program to
verify this.  If members caould forward headers and end sections to the Digest
of formats you find easy for your mailers to manipulate, I'll look for ways to
modernize--rewriting the macros that create the package around the messages.

 -- Robert Royar (robertroyar@delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Changes of all sorts (1)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:47:19 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 14:40:56 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug29.144056.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Changes of all sorts (1)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Estonia now has it's own e-mail domain (.ee) as note 4 (below) from Anne
Villems atests.  I hope U of L's new mailer can understand her new address.

The Digest is changing a bit also.  I finally got an e-mail account (through
DELPHI) with my own name.  I plan to use that account to manage most of the
Digest mailings (which will continue to be sent to readers by the U of L Vax
node).  I've already had a few strange mail messages sent as a result of this
new arrangement (which uses submit files and /after delays).  I apologize for
any problems people may have had reaching me of late--with bouncing mail, or
incomprehensible forwarded messages.

I think I've gotten the VMS submit files set up correctly now, and most of
those problems should dissappear.  You may find however the Digest delayed at
times.  I've been exceding my CPU allotted time on the mailings lately (now
that most of our readers are on Internet).  The 100+ university-based
subscribers on bitnet and internet coupled with slowed mailers at U of L may
cause some subscribers to miss a few issues.  U of L is upgrading its Vax
cluster for the next few weeks so the system is a bit slower than usual until
the upgrade is complete.

If you wish to reach me personally (and not just to submit material to the
Digest), please send e-mail me at
  RobertRoyar@Delphi.com

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Goodman Brown and the strict "Catholics" (2)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:14:23 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:         Tue, 01 Sep 1992 21:56:38 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep01.215638.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Goodman Brown and the strict "Catholics" (2)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Thomas Reber  <REBER@CANISIUS.BITNET> in message
<01GOA4T6J1U8GC3DBT@ulkyvx.bitnet> says

>  There's a story Harry Truman once told in a speech about an
>  interesting survey someone conducted in a town (I think it may have
>  been in Wisconsin).  The residents of the town were shown some
>  excerpts of the "Manifesto of the Communist Party," which they
>  identified as parts of the U.S. Constitution.  Interesting.

It's also interesting how much of the _Laws_ could be mistaken as part of "our"
Constitution, while at the same time reading the laws gives one a real sense
that the Platonic republic (not that of the dialogue by that name) finally came
into being in the Union of Soveriegn Socialist Republics (CCCP).

>  I was astounded this past spring that two students in my "Short
>  Fiction" courses said that Young Goodman Brown's problem was that he
>  was a victim of the overly strict Catholic Church.

While this is astounding, it's also rather insightful of the students to make
the connection between the pre-reformation Church's strictness toward the
northern Burghers (lending rates, mercantile practices, trade routes and
tariffs) compared to the less strict attitude toward the Venetians and
Milanese. Undoubtedly these attitudes coupled with the interests of the German
princes for "independence" fostered the strength of the Reformation (and
certainly led to the protection of Luther).  The same "rebellion" against the
conservative church can be seen in the later protestant movements in
England--eventually leading to the rise of the Puritan[ists] who were rebelling
againgst the powerful protestan equivalents to the Catholic Church.  Were it
not for the need of this rebellion and for the partition of the Southern New
World by the Pope between Portugal and Spain, there would likely not have been
a Goodman Brown and his Angst to inhabit Massachesetts.

Yes, that student demonstrates a real gasp at history *;^o

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

------------------------------
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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Some classes where groups have worked (4)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 14:35:56 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 10:01:38 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug30.100138.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Some classes where groups have worked (4)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

I teach mostly non-lit courses (tech. writing, business writing, writing for
art and architecture are three).  In those courses I've found that most times
(certainly not all) having students to design projects to work on in small
groups throughout the semester leads to their developing their own per editing
techniques. Each group must design a business (or portion thereof) or redesign
an existing business (or department procedure etc.).  The writings they
produce are "real-world" documents such as employment reviews, job
descriptions, technical specifications, and "project proposals".  I think of
this as "junior achievement" writing.  Some of the projects have been quite
good. (This summer a group of restaurant majors presented an oriental dinner
as part of their final presentation.  The class loved that. Their speeches
were well designed also.)  At the end of the semester part of their grade
(about 15%) is determined by the confidential evaluations of their group and
the class's evaluation of the final group presentation.

I also teach modem courses.  In those courses the students also work on
projects, but they choose to work more independently.  They upload their
interim work to our Vax into a conferencing system (CoSy).  There the students
read and comment on each other's business plans.  In those classes (partly
because the members are mainly middle-level executives) the projects are very
detailed, and most could actually be carried out with little or no
modification. I write more extensive comments on those electronic papers
because in most cases I find commenting easier on computer than by hand.  But
those classes are small (generally 4-6 students).

I don't know how I could use these same techniques in a lit-based class.  When
I do teach lit, I tend to downplay technical and "correctness" issues in the
writing the students do and really push for in class discussion--which always
includes journal-based prompts.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) $5000 NeXT and widgety wadgets (3)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:49:27 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:39:56 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Aug28.203956.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      $5000 NeXT and widgety wadgets (3)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

David,
It's not really the voice commenting that got my attention about the NeXT
computer but rather the ease with which such things as complex databases,
message pipes, images, and sound could be manipulated.  It's much easier even
than with a Mac mainly because it seems to translate the user's "high level"
commands (e.g. make a widget that has name, class, and notebook gadgets in it
and call it a journal--then when the user moves the mouse like this--open this
window and search for net mail--oh yeah, let me use this new widget to make
more complex ones).  I watched a guy design a very complex Lotus application in
three minutes that would usually take hours on the Mac and PC versions.  It's
all accomplished by pointing, clicking, and dragging.  The demos are usually
very fast.  Screen redraws are almost instant--no need for fade in/out boxes to
fool the user into thinking things are moving a pace.  It's those features that
interest me.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "The average voter doesn't view himself as articulate, so I
    think they can understand the President."
                                                  -- Bob Teeter
                                                     Bush Campaign Manager

------------------------------
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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) headers (2)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 09:52:46 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 12:52:57 CDT
From: John Anderson <jca@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Message-id: <9208241752.AA22203@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: headers (2)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Is it possible to have the addresses of CCD recipients appear at the end of
the digest rather than the beginning?  If the current subjects could be
seen on the very first screen of the mailing, it would be easier to read,
sort, and digest the messages.  The Society for Critical Exchange does
something similar with its mailing.

Just a suggestion; there may be a technical reason why this solution would
not be possible.

John Anderson
jca@nwu.edu

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: Using NeXt computers (727 chars) (2)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:16:45 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Age and gnosis (708 chars) (1)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:02:21 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:          Thu, 03 Sep 1992 19:04:20 EDT
From:          IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Dan Quigley (dquigley)
Message-Id:    <1992Sep03.190420.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Age and gnosis (708 chars) (1)
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology
Local-Group:   composition.dig/1.c&c.replies #10
Reply-to:      "Computers and Composition Digest" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

>I really know who they are.  I seem to be in tune with the older
>students who share my work ethic, but the younger ones?  My oldest
>daughter completed her BA last fall.  We get along fine, I think,
>and we seem to communicate.  But I wonder if we "really" know each
>other. I never thought I'd become part of the system, the over-
>thirty who've lost touch with the things that really matter.

I wonder if you feel you know your daughter now as well as four
years ago before she started college?  Wasn't it Twain who said
something like: "When I was 18, I couldn't believe how dumb my father.
was.  Once I turned 21, I was surprised by how much he had
learned in three years."

Quig

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: Using NeXt computers (727 chars) (2)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:55:54 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date:          Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:24:54 EDT
From:          IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Dan Quigley (dquigley)
Message-Id:    <1992Aug25.112454.2.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Re: Using NeXt computers (727 chars) (2)
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology
Local-Group:   composition.dig/1.c&c.replies #8
Reply-to:      "Computers and Composition Digest" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

As I think Rob Royar mentioned earlier this summer somewhere in this journal,
there was a real knockout demonstration of the NeXt at Computers and Writing in
Indy.  One of the "tools" the school--I believe Allegheny college, but Rob can
verify that--created was a "commenting" function for teachers using voice.
Teachers  would read through a student's file on disk and highlight a passage
to comment on.  They would then pick up a mike and say what they wanted the
student to hear about the passage.  The passage would stay highlighted{_, and
when the student re-read the paper on disk and clicked on the highlighted
passage, the student would hear the recorded message of the teacher.  Quite a
demo, really.

Quig

------------------------------
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Comments on good and great papers (4)
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:29:10 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>I imagine most of you on this list were good writers in college.  
>Didn't you value what your teachers had to say about your papers? 

Not only do I remember most of the comments to this day, I can
(being blessed or cursed with that kind of memory) even visualize 
them on the papers.  Many of the comments stung, but mostly the
sting was well deserved:  "AWK -- self-conscious ref to own paper."
Or "One of these days your sense of humor is going to turn to ashes
in your mouth" (I'd grown accustomed to the flavor of cinders long
before, but the point was valid nonetheless).  These were lessons
I could have learned elsewhere, but red ink in the margin taught 
them firmly, and assured that I learned them before being inflicted
upon the world as a "writer."

The occasional "Good!" (with "Good!" passage underlined) or "Well
argued" proved helpful and memorable as well.

These classes (those of two professors in particular) played a major
role in shaping my writing style, which hitherto had been given its
overall form by a prodigally bookish childhood but had never been 
chiseled by close reading and critique. (Just forget the American public 
schools, okay?  They were happy if I didn't talk in class and requested
permission before going to the bathroom.  We're talking college here.)  
Meanwhile, classes in which I got an easy, uncommented A came and went.

--Joe "Today will be the first day of what's left of your life" Chew
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Underground Tape Phenomenon (1)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 09:52:39 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92  09:35:05 EDT
From: "Dennis R. Hall" <DRHALL01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Message-id: <01GNYE9PLY80G73CT1@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Subject: Underground Tape Phenomenon (1)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Director of Composition, Department of English
Phone: (502) 588-6896
Can anyone give me any information about an underground tape phenomenon?
Not bootleg music tapes, but tapes of conversations that have been
secretly recorded and are reproduced and circulated for their interest
of one kind or another. Two I know about: recordings of Buddy Rich
giving hell to his band on the bus (a favorite of musicians, esp. drummers)
and recordings of a telephone controversy between a rock band and a New
Jersey saloon keeps, know as The Tube Tapes (this has figured, I'm told, in
an episode of The Simpsons). A local journalist and former student is doing
a piece on what he calls "reality tapes." Any help would be appreciated.
Any particulars about the Tube Tapes would be especially interested, but
anything of the pehnomenon would also be of great help. Thanks,
        Dennis Hall  DRHALL01@ULKYVM


------------------------------
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Commenting on Student papers...with computers. (1194 chars) (1)
Date: 31 Aug 92 10:31:47 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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Date:          Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:22:00 EDT
From:          IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Dan Quigley (dquigley)
Message-Id:    <1992Aug30.192200.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:       Commenting on Student papers...with computers. (1194 chars) (1)
Organization:  Department of English, New York Institute of Technology
Local-Group:   composition.dig/1.c&c.replies #9
Reply-to:      "Computers and Composition Digest" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

I had not thought much  about the implications of the NeXt demonstration of
orally implanted comments because we don't have the capability at NYIT and so
won't have the chance to do it.  In the past, I have often found one on one
conferencese where I read through a student's paper for the first time with
the student right there very helpful.  They get to see how a reader
(unfortunatley in these cases that reader was me and not another student)
works through a paper.

I have also done alot of commenting on student drafts using the computer to
insert my comments onto their files.  One of the benefits of this that I
haven't read here is that my comments become "removable."  If students are
going to ignore my comments, I certainly want them to at least keep the draft
of the paper they wrote.   By inserting comments into their paper, they can
delete me when they want, using what suggestions they find most helpful.
Since the first draft at least has some of the work of the final draft done
for them, they are more inclined to revise these computer files then they
seemed to be to re-write and re-type a hard copy.

Quig

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Re: Computers under glass (1536 chars) (1)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:16:31 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (COMPDIGEST)
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Searching for Anne Villems (12)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:16:55 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

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From: dharper@hounix.org (David Harper)
Subject: Re: wanted: handout on basics of scholarly writing
Organization: Houston UNIX Users Group (HOUNIX), Houston, TX
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 18:50:18 GMT

In article <9208311519.aa16338@q2.ics.uci.edu> kling@ics.uci.edu (Rob Kling) writes:
>
>Hi .... I sympathize w/your predicament. If these are PhD students, -
>they could usefully invest in a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style.
>It's hardcover ... and costs over $25 I believe,  but would be a solid
>reference book that would be useful for well over 10 years ....
>
>The American Psych Assn has a less expensive style manual ... that is also_
>much less general.
>
>I'd be interested in learning what you end up using.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Rob Kling
>UC-Irvine

A better guide than _The_Chicago_Manual_of_Style is a 
special condensation of that guide for students: 
A_Manual_for_Writers_of_Term_Papers,_Theses,_and_Dissertations_, 
5th edition by Kate Turabian. 300 pages. University of 
Chicago Press.

From the back cover:

"For over fifty years Turabian's _Manual_for_Writers_ has 
offered comprehensive and detailed guidance to authors of 
research papers. The fifth edition, extensively revised and 
issued in a larger format, retains the features that have 
made the manual, in its earlier editions, the choice of over 
5,000,000 writers and students. Throughout, the advice and 
examples of style usage are based on the thirteenth edition 
(1982) of _The Chicago_Manual_of_Style_.

Contents

 1. Parts of the Paper
 2. Abbreviations and Numbers
 3. Spelling and Punctuation
 4. Capitalization, Quotation Marks, and Underlining
    (Italics)
 5. Quotations
 6. Tables
 7. Illustrations
 8. Citation I: Parenthetical References and Reference Lists
 9. Citation II: Footnotes and Endnotes
10. Citation III: Bibliographies
11. Citation IV: Samples
12. Citation V: Public Documents
13. Preparing the Manuscript: The Most Effective Use of
    Computer Systems and Typewriters
14. Formats of Component Parts and Sample Layouts

This book is easy to use and contains oodles of examples, 
especially in the Citation sections.

Regards, David Harper  dharper@hounix.org
Xref: sparky comp.edu:1491 comp.lang.fortran:3386 comp.lang.misc:2896