HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth L. Blumberg)
Subject: Re: PDP-8 Collectors
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:30:12 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth L. Blumberg)
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <foo> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones) writes:
>There are also very likely to be many industrial users of PDP-8
>based systems.  Just last month, I was talking to a man from an
>Alcoa plant, and he said that they were still using NC machines
>that were real antiques.  I'd lay even odds on an antique NC
>machine being PDP-8 based!

Oh, yes indeedy, there are many, many industrial PDP-8 setups out there.  A
guy I used to know--field service rep for a measuring-equipment company--said
that his main job is maintaining 8/L and 8/I (and some 8/E or /F) setups
installed back in the late '60s, early '70s.  Apparently, it's mostly the
specialized OEM hardware that needs fixing--the 8's just keep on rolling.
Many plants that use his company's stuff also use 8-based NC rigs.  Kind of
awe-inspiring, when you think about it.

>				Doug Jones
>				jones@cs.uiowa.edu

	Seth "the Lesser"

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \  Blumberg's Corollary: And the rest ain't so
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \        hot, either.
   > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen)
Subject: PDP-8 Collectors
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:23:09 GMT

I was very interested to notice this new newsgroup.  I have long been
interested in obtaining a small PDP-8 system as a collector item,
to restore and get operational.  I think lots of the machines are still
floating around (???)

Questions:

Is anyone else doing this, as just a hobby (not maintaining one for
business use)?

How available is software that I would not have to pay DEC for?  Much PD
available?  For obsolete hardware, it would almost make sense for DEC to
give the stuff away.  

Any problem maintaining these systems?  I am very good at electronics,
so I can handle anything I can get parts for.  But, are there many
custom parts that are difficult to obtain?  (particularly mechanical
parts)  DEC still support?  (Reasonably)  

Any idea what used systems are costing?  I an talking about the real
PDP-8's, not the Rainbows.

Thanks for any comments.
Charles B. Owen


-- 
| Charles B. Owen                            Internet: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu |
| Western Illinois University                            Phone: 309-837-4292 |
| 1002 E. Murray                                                             |
| Macomb, IL  61455                                                          |
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
Subject: Re: PDP-8 Collectors
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:24:46 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>	At work, I've talked our department into providing a home for a
>	1966 vintage PDP-8, and I have a small group of students starting
>	the job of figuring out whether it is safe to plug it in and try
>	turning it on (such wonderful questions as: are all the flip-chip
>	modules plugged into the right slots, and what cables go where?)

	The RPI-ACM once (early-80's) had a PDP-8 (no /anything), ALL flip-
chips, with adjustable power supply for preventive maintenance, and an entire
second cabinet of flip-chips for running X-ray crystallography experiments.
(It included a pulse-amplifier hooked up to a speaker for playing music...)

	I designed (but never built) a DMA printer driver using flip-chips
to run a 700 LPM Burroughs line-printer we also happened to have.  (That
printer was eventually responsible for sending me to the hospital, when we
had a "printer-bash" during GM week...)

	I also use an 8/e with dectape in high-school.  I still have about 10
tapes, mostly set up using Educomp OS/8 and EduBasic.  I also have 3 trays of
paper-tape software, including Focal, a couple of basics, fortran (I think),
and a bunch of other things, including a chess program.

	The RPI PDP-8 was lent to the secretary for a halloween thing at his
fraternity (he wasn't much into real programming), and his fraternity burnt
down before he returned it.  argh....  I wanted that machine...

	I would _love_ to get my hands on an 8/e with tape drives.  Even
an 8/anything with paper tape would be better than nothing.

-- 
To be or not to be = 0xff
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: rla@netcom.com (Robert Armstrong)
Subject: Re: PDP-8 Collectors
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:36:18 GMT

mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen) writes:

>Questions:

>Is anyone else doing this, as just a hobby (not maintaining one for
>business use)?

  I have an 8/A that's currently in storage, although I used to
run it all the time before I ran out of room to keep it!  It has
two RK05s (an F and a J), RX02, TU56, 32K MOS (I also have a 16K
core board, but it takes up too much room in the backplane), and
a real VT52 for a console.

  I've also owned a few DECmates and one VT78, but I don't have
any at the moment.

  I also built a system once based on the IM6100 and 6102.  It had
8K RAM and a cassette tape (that's an _audio_ cassette, Kansas City
format!) interface.  I managed to get FOCAL running on it.

>How available is software that I would not have to pay DEC for?  Much PD
>available?  For obsolete hardware, it would almost make sense for DEC to
>give the stuff away.  

  There's an archive of some PDP-8 software at telebit.com.  Also,
OS/278 is available, with or without sources, from DECUS.  A few
other PDP-8 software packages are still available from DECUS.

  Other than that, DEC isn't giving any software away.  They've given
permission to reproduce hardware manuals that they no longer sell,
but as far as I know DEC's never given permission to distribute old
PDP-8 software.  I'm sure there's no value in holding on to it -
probably there's just nobody willing stick their neck out and say
"It's free!".

>Any problem maintaining these systems?  I am very good at electronics,
>so I can handle anything I can get parts for.  But, are there many
>custom parts that are difficult to obtain?  (particularly mechanical
>parts)  DEC still support?  (Reasonably) 

  The later machines, 8/I and after, use standard TTL parts.  The 8/A
had a few LSI chips, like UARTs, in it.  I've successfully replaced
chips on my RK8E controller and LP8E.  I still see PDP-8 components for
sale by some of the used DEC equipment resalers, but not nearly as much
as there was 10 years ago.  Used DECmates are still relatively easy
to buy from these places.

  I've no idea if DEC still sells replacement parts.  They'd probably
be much too expensive to be useful even if they did.

  Good luck.

Bob Armstrong
rla@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: DEC PDP-4
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:13:59 GMT

I briefly saw a PDP-4 in the Maynard Mill Complex, and it may very well
be the machine from the picture.  It had a Model 28 baudot teletype console,
and small Alco-type snap switches on the front panel.  (Much harder to use
than later designs such as the PDP-8.)

But some of those captions are confusing:  wasn't the PDP-7 not actually
wire-wrapped, but soldered like the PDP-5, and used Systems Modules?  The
PDP-9 was definitely constructed like the PDP-8, using Gardner-Denver
automatic wire-wrap equipment, so why would a forerunner be essentially
the same design?

In any case, DEC has been known to "fake" some of those pictures for the
add copy.  One rather infamous picture of what is alledgedly a PDP-15
panel actually has an 8/l panel as part of it, and upside-down!

A PDP-12 photo shows something that was never put into production: lettering
in lower-case on the silk-screen.

I was once shown the room where all the "sexy" cabinets for the early COS-300
systems were photographed.  These cabinets were painted with bright colors,
and there was even a silly plastic front plate over a TU56 DECtape, as well
as a modified TU-10 where the drive is low in the cabinet, but has a
modified control panel made to fit into the top of the lower cabinet.  All
of the machines were places over various fabrics on the floor to achieve a
"stage presence" or some sort of "office of the future" notion, etc.  Some
of these pictures are often found in early COS-300 manuals or associated
ad copy.

The level of hype throughout all these ads is consistent with the thread
about the irrelevance of "flip chips" as a concept, as opposed to the name
that became applied to the modules, regardless of actual component type.
Apparently DEC always used the same sort of ad agency, which was obsessed with
dramatic camera angles, etc., to suggest some sort of futuristic look to all
of the machines back then.

There's even a funny shot of a KA-10 with a few DECtape drives, implying that
an extra-large cabinet was the entire PDP-10 system in useful form.  Several
years later, the opposite extreme was achieved, with a poster of a typical
computer-center-like layout with an aerial view, raised floor, many cabinets,
and a legend explaining what each cabinet group was used for, etc.  A partial
version of this picture became a back cover for at least one PDP-10 manual.

cjl
From: grier@bnr.ca (Brian Grier)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
Subject: Scary Thoughts
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:33:34 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research

I thought that the PDP-8 had long ago disapeared. I used to own
a PDP-8e with a dual DEC-Tape drive, OS-8, Fortran II compiler,
FOCAL, and assembler. I gave the system to a computer museum in
Westminster Mass about 6 years ago.

I still have the IBM programming card for the PDP-8, sort of scary.

Brian, WS1S
Bell Northern Research
Research Triangle Park, NC
From: lafollet@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Paul Lafollette)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
Subject: Re: PDP-8 Collectors
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:03:46 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Wow. Reading this makes me miss "my" LINC-8.  Wish I could find
one and had room and time to set it up.  Incidentally, up until
last year I was still teaching PDP-8 assembly language in one
of our courses here. (Not my decision, but it was fun anyhow.)
I think I still have a couple copies of the little brown book
that DEC gave out on reserve in our library :)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: us048503@mmm.serc.3m.com (Art H. Hurst)
Subject: Re: Scary Thoughts
Organization: 3M Company
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:55:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.143334.21226@bnr.ca> grier@bnr.ca (Brian Grier) writes:
>I thought that the PDP-8 had long ago disapeared. I used to own
>a PDP-8e with a dual DEC-Tape drive, OS-8, Fortran II compiler,
>FOCAL, and assembler. I gave the system to a computer museum in
>Westminster Mass about 6 years ago.
>
>I still have the IBM programming card for the PDP-8, sort of scary.
>
>Brian, WS1S
>Bell Northern Research
>Research Triangle Park, NC

	I had an 8/L!! donated to Ventura CA museum. Still have an 8a
	manual and programming cards. ASR33 I/O w/ paper tape --! 10
	char/sec printout. Them were the good 'ol days! All day to get a
	4k 12 bit program running -- if all went well. You prayed the
	paper tape wouldn't miss a punch on the 3 pass read. 
-- 
Art Hurst                                         Email: ahhurst@mmm.com
3M Company                                        Phone: (805)388-4170
Digital Storage Products Division                 FAX:   (805)388-4804
Camarillo CA 93012
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: jwilson@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John Wilson)
Subject: PDP-8 spares
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:50:59 GMT

In response to someone's question, DEC does in fact still sell some
PDP-8 spares.  They vary from "kinda expensive" to "outrageous", but
if you screw up one of your core stacks they've really got you
cornered.
As I remember, M8350's were kinda reasonable though, M8360's aren't
available (bummer!), and RX8E's were something around $250, which is
a hell of a lot but they've gotten really rare lately...

On the other hand, they wanted almost $200 for the paddle card/cable
that goes between an RK8E and the first RK05 -- if anyone has one of
these to sell for a *lot* less than this I'd be very interested!

John Wilson      [00,03] long ago...
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: sillbit@stacken.kth.se (Johnny Billquist)
Subject: Re: PDP-8 Collectors
Organization: Stacken Computer Club, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:57:34 GMT

In article <Bx946L.KCM@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen) writes:
>I was very interested to notice this new newsgroup.  I have long been
>interested in obtaining a small PDP-8 system as a collector item,
>to restore and get operational.  I think lots of the machines are still
>floating around (???)

Yup, I'd definitely say so.

>Questions:
>
>Is anyone else doing this, as just a hobby (not maintaining one for
>business use)?

I know of quite a few who maintain pdp8 systems just for the fun of it.
I'm one of them. I have actually scrounged together 7 pdp8 systems.

>How available is software that I would not have to pay DEC for?  Much PD
>available?  For obsolete hardware, it would almost make sense for DEC to
>give the stuff away.  

I'd say you could get every piece of software for the pdp8 without
paying anything. DEC has released much to DECUS, and I doubt they
would try to sell any of it today.

>Any problem maintaining these systems?  I am very good at electronics,
>so I can handle anything I can get parts for.  But, are there many
>custom parts that are difficult to obtain?  (particularly mechanical
>parts)  DEC still support?  (Reasonably)  

I'm not that very bright on electronics, but I'm not having too much
trouble keeping systems running. Just get the drawings for the machine
and everything will be quite easy. DEC also still has some of the hardware
in stock, if you just ask the right person.

>Any idea what used systems are costing?  I an talking about the real
>PDP-8's, not the Rainbows.

Most of these systems goes for free nowadays. Maybe a few bucks, but
not much.

Rainbow is not a pdp8, by the way. I suspect you are thinking of the
DECmate I, II and III.

>Thanks for any comments.
>Charles B. Owen

You're welcome.
-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: efh@eff.org (Ed Hardebeck)
Subject: Re: New owner of a PDP-8e
Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp8
Organization: ON Technology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:50:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct28.235258.4581@s1.gov>, jtk@s1.gov (Jordin Kare) wrote:
> Migawd!  30 years of PDP-5's!  You might check with the MIT Electronics
> Research Society, room 20B119 (?) at MIT.  They used to have a PDP-5
> (I know because I rebuilt it, long ago in my college days) and may
> well either still have it or know where it went.  Geoff Rochat would
> be the person to ask.
> 
> 	Jordin Kare
> -- 
> 
> 	Jordin Kare	jtk@s1.gov	510-426-0363

Hi Jordin!

You might recall that you (representing ERS) sold that PDP-5 to me in 1979
for $25.

I had it running for quite a while, I remember that due to corrosion on the
System Module contacts sometimes an accumulator bit would get "stuck".  You
could usually tell which bit by the lights on the front panel, then go into
the back,
count over to the right module (there were 12 for the accumulator, one for
each bit)
and wiggle it a little, then hit Continue and go on.  (Of course the
program would still
be fine in core, that would stay even between power cycles).

We had it connected to the original MIT PDP-1 3340(?) display
(*the*original Spacewar display) which I had also acquired.  We hacked up a
version of Munching Squares for
the 5 and the 3340 scope.

I believe that after I moved my roomates donated the 5 to the Computer
Museum 
sometime in the mid '80s.  There was a complete set of documentation (which
in those
days included full schematics and a tutorial on the diode-capacitor logic
(0 and -3
volt logic levels) used in the System Modules).

The Computer Museum had a 5 previous to this, so they should have at least
two now.

Ed Hardebeck
efh@eff.org
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: cjh@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Carol J. Hughes)
Subject: Re: *** QUESTION REGARDING CALCULATION OF TRANSITS IN ASTROLOG ***
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:15:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.164754.44446@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:
>
>Astrolog has a "built in" latitude and longitude that comes from
>either the astrolog.dat file if one exists, or from a compilation
>constant.  To change the default latitude, either edit the
>astrolog.dat file, or use the -l <long> <lat> option on the command
>line.
>-- 
>USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
>E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444 

There are DEFAULT_LONG and DEFAULT_LAT in the astrolog.h file.
Does Astrolog use this info?  If so, why does Astrolog ask for
the latitude and longitude if you run it without specifying
a file of birth info.

jh
From: Carole@brownvm (Carolyn Egan)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Synchonistic symbology
Followup-To: alt.astrology
Date: 6 Nov 1992 14:58:29 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cis_staff-kntx18.cis.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov6.074813.16128@news.Hawaii.Edu>, deb@spectra (David
Barrett) wrote:
 Every area of science has its modeling and language to process the data to

> some secure result.  Astrology, when it is viewed with this perspective, is
> probably one of the most effective uses of symbology ever developed and used
> by mankind.

Yes, the symbols are all around us and I for one, will probably spend the
rest of my life trying to interpret their meaning.
  
  It helps us know ourselves, our universe, our origins and our
> destinations a little better than just groping around in the dark.  It's not
> a religion, a philosophy or a fantasy.  It's just a simple and encouraging
> tool.  Without it we may only be left with the fear of the unknown and the 
> desperate acts for security and knowledge.  Both are within each one of us.  
> You only have to find it.

Not everyone needs or wants Astrology.  For me, it has explained life in a
way no other teacher was able to; a certain peace is the result a my
studies - to be able to comprehend the human experience and the
interconnectiveness of us all.

Thanks for a beautiful piece David.

Regards, Carol

> 
> :-}
> 
> dB
From: lmpm@teal.csn.org (L. M. P. McPherson)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Message to New Readers of alt.astrology
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:18:08 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.



       ***** ATTENTION NEW READERS OF ALT.ASTROLOGY *****

There is a file, posted monthly, called "Frequently Asked
Questions." Before you post a question to alt.astrology, please
check this file to see whether the question is one that is
frequently asked. If it is, an answer can be found in the file.
If the file is no longer at your site, you can obtain a copy at
the ftp site, hilbert.maths.utas.edu.au; to do so, you probably
need to have a UNIX account or access to the internet through a
SUN station. From most sites, you type "ftp
hilbert.maths.utas.edu.au"; once connected, type "anonymous" and
then enter your e-mail address as a password. Once in, change to
the directory where the file resides by typing "cd
pub/astrology". If you type "ls" you can see the names of all the
files in the directory. The file you want is "faq"; type "get
faq" to transfer it to your account. Then type "bye" to
disconnect, and read the file with an editor.

If you cannot get the file through anonymous ftp, please wait for
it to be posted. Thank you for your courtesy.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: The New President
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:22:00 GMT

In article <6NOV199206175499@vxcrna.cern.ch>, casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes...
>In article <1dcbhuINNkfi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cg482@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Paquette) writes...
>> 
>>Carol,
>>     RE your question about Clinton's middle name-on one of the
>>news programs it was stated that he has two middle names, the 
>>second being Blythe (don't know the correct spelling. Maybe
>>someone else can come up with the names.
> 
>I think Blythe was his original last name.

One of my friends who is a Slick Willy fan confirms what I thought.  He was
born William Jefferson Blythe.


"President Blythe" sounds even worse than "President Clinton"...



Dave


Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: lmpm@teal.csn.org (L. M. P. McPherson)
Subject: Re: The New President
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:06:59 GMT

In article <1df285INN35r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cg482@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Paquette) writes:
>
>     As Dave stated in a previous post, Clinton's name is an
>adoptive last name, since when his mother remarried, her new
>husband adopted him and Clinton was the new husband's last name.

The story I heard, from a Perot-style 30-minute advertisement 
Clinton aired the night before the election, was that some time
after Clinton was living with his mother and step-father, Clinton
himself decided to change his last name so that it would match
the last name of his half-brother, whom he loved very much.
I do not recall any mention in that ad of the step-father 
adopting Bill, but he might have.


Maggie