HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:34:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.233544.24378@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:

>>there are several people i know, who were disgruntled
>> red sox fans the past 2 years, who have abandoned the red
>> sox ship with their recent signings/trades/actions.  however,
>> i just heard an interesting thing...

>>the red sox are supposedly interested in signing jerome walton.

>>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
>> leagues put together.  

>at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
>color sox.

At least?

I mean, sure, this gets rid of one of their outfielders.

But not the right one.  

What kind of idiot would look at Ellis Burks and Billy Hatcher and say
Billy Hatcher is the guy he wants?  Oh, of course.  Lou Gorman.

On the other hand, what kind of idiot would look at Tom Brunansky and
Andre Dawson and pick Andre Dawson?  Oh, of course.  Lou Gorman.

What kind of idiot would look at Phil Plantier and Bob Zupcic and keep
Bob Zupcic, while trading Phil Plantier for a middle reliever?  Oh, of
course, Lou Gorman.

I don't care; I'm an Orioles fan.  I just think it's amusing.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:48:42 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan4.212127.27791@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>I believe it is the case in the NFL that a team can choose to,
>for instance, have an interview room and ban *all* reporters from the
>locker room; I think the Cowboys have done this for a number of years.

I've been in the Cowboys locker room.  Of course, I'm not a reporter.
And then again, none of the actual Cowboys were there.  But a good
third of my group were women, and there were no ill effects.  :)
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Subject: Re: Stats' correlation with winning (batters)
Reply-To: tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M Loughin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:43:55 GMT

In article <C0r6u1.JGo@world.std.com>, jle@world.std.com (Joe M Leonard)
writes:
> As a follow-on of sorts to the Fielder et al discussions, I thought I'd
> run the 1992 AL team stats to see what correlated with Wins (really the
> only Important stat?)...
> 
> Runs	0.673
> SB-rat	0.555
> TBB	0.503
> SB	0.429
> Hits	0.344
> EB-hits	0.114
> HR	0.062
> 
> I omitted RBI, since it's essentially Runs...  Several comments from this:
> 
> 1. HR's show NO correlation with winning.  Granted, this is a very limited
> sample, so one would have to check a bunch more years (suitably scaled
> against each other) to see if this is a fluke or not.
> 
Yes, well, that's very interesting and all, but is it possible that you've 
overlooked a thing or twenty?  Let's start with the flip side of the coin:  
is it necessary that a team score a lot ot runs to win?  Only if they're from
Philadelphia.  Giving up runs is just as important as scoring them (maybe 
more or less, but that's another argument).  And really, what matters in the 
end is run _differential_ (at least that's how individual games seem to be 
decided).  Averaged out over the course of a season, who knows what sort of 
relationship there is between run differential and winning, but I'd bet it's 
a tad better that one half or the the other.  

And isn't it just possible that the teams in the best HR-hitter's parks tended 
to be poor last year, while those in poor parks thrived?  Even if that's not 
really the case, there can be no doubt that park effect is something that 
should not be overlooked.  Anyone can hit home runs in Wrigley (with the 
possible exception of Steve Jeltz); the question is, can YOU hit more than 
THEY do...

I applaud your efforts to debunk baseball myths through the use of fact, but 
don't go trying to shatter the earth with ill-thought-out experiments based 
on a single sample of size 14.

Oh, Gawd, there I go, again...

-Tom
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Alomar and Range Factor (was Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseball)
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf, Sietec Open Systems, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:22:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.032738.23621@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>i'm not going to start down the "the stats say he's worst but i know
>he's great from seeing him" road again.. i'm just genuinely curious as
>to how someone who appears to be a defensive gem can have the lowest
>range factor. either he is doing it with mirrors, i am crazy, or that
>statistic is bogus.  if anyone can clarify which of these three it is,
>i would like to hear it.

Alomar's range factor is lower than it should be because the Jays pitching
staff gives up more fly balls than grounders.  Every Jay infielder had below
average range; every Jays outfielder had average range or better.  (This
includes Candy Maldonado, unless my memory is playing tricks on me.)

STATS lists zone ratings for infielders, and claims that Alomar is very
close to the league average (in fact, a little bit below).  This surprises
me, as it would seem that not much gets by him.  Is he doing something
wrong?  Does he not anticipate well, or does he not take a good first step?
Like Charles, I think Alomar looks good out there.

BTW:  has anyone else noticed that Alomar's stats resemble those of the
young Joe Morgan?  Alomar isn't walking quite as much as Morgan yet, and
doesn't have the power that the mature Morgan did, but they both have
the same broad range of skills...

--Dave "Alomar is my favourite player" Till
  e-mail address:  dave@silver.sni.ca or dave@snitor.uucp
From: Perry@mte.ncsu.edu (Bill Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:23:23 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1892.2b4da111@atlas.nafb.trw.com> mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.182153.25244@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
gotribe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.g.barry) writes:
>
>  {other articles deleted}
>
>> 
>> You guys get so bogged down in your stats and comparisons, that you
>> forget what the Detroit owner really wants to do - get people to
>> the park and make money.  Fielder is as big (no pun intended) in
>> Detroit as other superstars are in other towns.  When the town loses
>> the superstars, they tend not to support the team until they either
>> get a new superstar or start winning.  In Chicago, the guys on
>> the radio are already advocating not going to Bears pre-season games
>> next year because McCaskey fired Ditka (Chicagos' newest superstar
>> hero).  Detroit needs Fielder and $$$ shouldn't be an issue.
>> 
>> Rich Barry
>> barry@ihlpe.att.com
>
>  Blah.
>
>  Fielder may bring fans to Detroit, no argument.
>  Not signing Fielder would have caused a PR problem, no argument.
>
>  But winning games and championships brings fans for the longer term.
>
>  ( and I hope that you are not implying that Yount is worth $7M /yr
>    for being Milwaukee's superstar, Baerga (or Alomar) for Clev's,
>    and Santiago is Miami's new superstar. )
>
>  Mark Pede
> 
>  
>
	Please remember that when a team like Detroit signs Cecil to the big contract
that they are also paying him back for past years of service.  (the same goes
for Sandburg and the cubs)  The fact is he has been the biggest bat in baseball
the past 3 years. He can't pick his teammates or pitch, so don't put his
accomplishments down just because the Tigers have stunk over that time period. 
He has many good years ahead of him, and he will win the MVP one year......



Bill  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: rule-question
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:11:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.164058.13694@osf.org> ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum) writes:
>  However, if Rickey Henderson is at first base and Mark McGwire hits an infield
>pop fly with less than 2 outs, the infield fly is NOT called! So - it seems 
>possible for the infielder to let the ball drop and throw out Henderson at
>second base - thereby 'trading' the dangerous runner Henderson for McGwire. How
>come you never see this play in baseball? I think the umps would say this ploy
>is illegal via other rules - like the 'mockery of the game' clause. 

I saw a similiar play in a Cubs game last year (don't remember who they
were playing).  The batter was a slow runner, while the runner at first
was fast.  On a short fly to the outfield, George Bell intentionally
dropped it and threw it to second, forcing the faster runner out.  This
was not considered illegal, and I don't think it should be.  (In fact,
I don't see any reason to have the infield fly rule; if the batter pops
it up, then that's his tough luck.)

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Big Picture Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Baseball fans, players and owners
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:40:55 GMT
Organization: Roger Maynard Cheese Souffle Club, Ltd.

anon.574@pax.tpa.com.au writes:

>        Baseball players are overpaid, undereduated, moronic cretins who 
>lack basic social skills.

Hey, everyone!  Jerry Reinsdorf got net access!

>        Baseball fans contain all of the above characteristics and are 
>pathetic because of their interest in such a useless sport which contains 
>all of the excitement of a good golf game.

Ha!  Wrong, pal!  I sure as hell am NOT overpaid!  As for undereducated,
moronic, or cretinous, well, hey, no one's perfect.  :-)  

>        You can quote me on this!

And for this reason, you chose to be anonymous?  Real brave, guy.  Bop on
down to rent-a-spine and tell them you want the George Bush special.

> Anonymity & Privacy by PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) **

And this post is a good reason why REAL privacy issues don't get the 
attention they deserve.  Thanks for giving a bad image to people who
are really trying to accomplish something in terms of personal privacy.

Chump.


-- 
*   Gary Huckabay   * "There is a special place in Hell for people like   *
* "Bears virtually  *  you, Gary.  You'll be sharing a room with Rip      *
* no resemblance to *  Taylor, Jim Nabors, Richard Simmons, and America's *
*  David Thornley." *  Scoutmaster General, Charles Nelson Reilly." - AR. *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stesmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Smith)
Subject: Astros Contenders?
Summary: Bass, Uribe solidify bench
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:17:42 GMT


Now that the Oilers' season is painfully over, and the Rockets
have leveled off to .500, Houston sports fans must be turning
hopefully to the Astros. Anyone out there have some predictions
regarding the fate of the 'Stros in 1993? The more outlandish
the better.





Steve Smith
One-word summary of Houston sports teams: "You never know" (apologies to
Joaquin Andujar)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:29:29 GMT

In article <C0Is3E.KAw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes) writes:
>I still can't believe Reggie Jackson made it and Phil Niekro AND Steve Garvey 
>(OK, he's marginal, but less so than Jackson IMHO) didn't.  I think that GArvey
>was better in all areas of the game including 'intangibles' than Jackson.  

Aside from on-base average, slugging, homers, RBI, etc.  Garvey was an
OK first baseman who hit .300 for a long time, but hey, we've seen that 
before.  

As for the "intangibles," I thought those were the things that won pennants.
And I do seem to recall Reggie playing for a lot of winners.

>Whsat did Reggie ever do well except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's 
>and early 1980's TV shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy 
>MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?  (I'm not a big fan of 
>Reggie's!)  

Well, he *did* hit a few homers in the regular season, too -- 563 of them.
1700 RBI, give or take. 

>Garvey, on the other hand, was a dangerous clutch hitter ALL 
>SEASON and reasonably good first baseman.  

Like, Reggie wasn't?  Like, the A's won five divisions and 3 WS in a row
with Reggie choking?  This is news...

>I plead ignorance on Reggie's 
>fielding abilities because I'm a Cub fan, and only tend to watch National 
>League games (NO DH!!)  

Pretty good when he was younger, bad later on.  Like Babe Ruth.

On the other hand, you haven't shown us that you know anything about 
his hitting, either, so why not find out a little before posting?  It's
not like it wasn't all over the newspapers the last few days.

>Anyway, I think Niekro deserved to be elected because he won 318 games AND 
>could throw a knuckleball accurately, which is impressive in and of itself!

I think he deserves to be elected because he pitched effectively for a 
very long time.

>Feel free to flame away, if there are indeed any Reggie fans in the universe. 

There are plenty.  And with good reason.

>BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player 
>than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.

And evidently regular-season stats don't impress you either...

Roger
From: guilford@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Date: 13 Jan 93 11:55:11 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1993Jan11.080300.18448@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:

> In article <1993Jan11.072048.3770@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:

>>You think Fielder is barely above average!!!

> Yep.  Let's see, last year, McGwire, Olerud, Palmeiro, and Thomas were
> better than Fielder, and Hrbek and Sorrento were about even with Fielder
> offensively.  That puts him at about fifth through seventh best first
> baseman in the AL out of fourteen first basemen -- or slightly above
> average.  (Note that Mattingly isn't in this list of the best seven
> first-basemen in the AL.)  You include defense in there, he'd slip 
> further back -- Fielder is going to be a DH awfully soon, and played
> 43 games there in 1992.  As a DH, he hit worse than Belle, Chili Davis,
> Downing, Molitor, and Winfield -- which would rank him as the sixth
> best DH out there, once again barely above average in a fourteen-team
> league.

Fielder does have an advantage over at least Hrbek and Sorrento in
that he plays all the time; you don't (so far) need to use another roster
spot for his caddy or platoon partner.

> Fielder isn't even one of the top ten first basemen in the majors.  And
> he's going to get worse, not better -- he's a slow slugger, the type of 
> player that doesn't age well.

He might not age that badly.  He could lose weight.  He does only have 3
full-time seasons with which to predict the future, which is not a lot.
He does at least walk -- his 3 best UBB seasons are 79, 66 and 65, which
compares well with many other RH sluggers (Winfield at 72, 71, 68; Bell
max 38; J Carter max 37; Parrish max 47; G Carter 67, 64, 55; etc etc etc).

Finally it may be that 1B attracts a disproportionate number of star
hitters anyway, so that being the 6th best AL 1B may be quite, at times
anyway, quite a bit more valuable than being the 6th best AL whatever.
Two of the people Fielder is clearly behind, Thomas and McGwire, are
in my opinion more likely than not to go HOF.

Bill Guilford
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Grace > Mattingly
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:32:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.192928.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jlevy@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>even Mattingly's beter than Mark Grace.

Poppycock.

Grace is three years younger.  He's had a better OBA than Mattingly *every*
*year* since he came up -- Mattingly hasn't matched Grace's *career* OBA
of .374 since the rabbitball year of 1987.

As for slugging, Grace has outslugged Mattingly in two of the last three
years (and just missed the year before that, as well as in 1991, an off-year).

Defensively, he's at least as good as Mattingly, if not better.

True, Grace has played in a better hitter's park than Mattingly, but from
1988-1992, Grace has hit *far* better on the road than Mattingly has 
(292/359/415 vs 280/323/384).

Grace is overrated, especially by the Chicago media (which howled when
he didn't make the All-Star team, but didn't blink when Thomas was
excluded), but you're underestimating how mediocre Mattingly is. 

Mattingly will be lucky if he has *one* season out of the next five better
than Grace.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:58:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.072048.3770@athena.mit.edu> frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz) writes:
>You think Fielder is barely above average!!!

>I am a Mets fan, and I would love to see him on the Mets.  He is clearly an
>impact player.  Better than Bonds, no.  But a star?, yes, definitely!

Being a star is nice, but being good is more important.  What impact would
this impact player have?  A guy who makes close to 500 outs annually
would be a disaster in the middle of the Met lineup--there are too
many outs being made there already, and nothing worth mentioning
in the 6-7-8 slots, either.   He wouldn't hit 40 HR in Shea; just
what would he help with?

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.history
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Grover Cleveland's daughter (was Re: Baby Ruth)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:42:00 GMT

In article <1in68sINNsgm@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, 
brock@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bradley W.  writes...
>In article <1993Jan08.184121.5895@sco.com> erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes:
>> I think the scandal had to do with Cleveland's admission during his first
>> presidential campaign that he had fathered an illegitimate child and was
>> paying child support. The Republicans came up with the rhyme "Ma, Ma,
>> where's my Pa? Gone to the White House, ha ha ha!", but Cleveland won
>> anyway.
> 
>No, I think the Republicans came up with "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?"
>to which the Democrats retorted, "Gone to the White House, ha ha ha!"
> 
Well, actually according to one of my Book of Lists in the area of worst 
political campaigns, James Blaine had a newspaper campaign about Cleveland's 
illegitimate son which went like this:

It would have a picture of a woman and child with this caption:

Son: Ma, Ma, where's my Pa, Pa, Pa?
Mother: Gone to the White House, Ha, Ha, Ha!

However, when Cleveland came clean on what had occured, nobody cared and he 
won.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU (sam lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: rule-question
Date: 4 Jan 1993 14:16:42 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu

frodo@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Frank Wagner) writes:

>1) Why no infield-fly is called, if there is a runner on 1st only ?
>
The infield-fly rule is intended to prevent the defensive team from dropping
a fly ball to get more than one out by forcing the baserunners who were
forced to stay near their bases because of the fly. If there is only a man
on first, the defensive team gets no advantage by dropping the ball since it
could only force the runner going from 1st to 2nd (the batter should easily
make it to first given the time the fly was in the air). 

>2) If a fly ball is caught in foul-territory, is it dead or may the
>   runners tag up and try to reach the next base ?

They runners can tag (assuming the caught foul wasn't the third out).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 ~ Reardon can still bring it. Chyeah right (tm).             
Sam Lane         ~ Overheard this summer- Warren Spahn:"Do you know who I am?" 
Univ.of Houston  ~ 8-year old:"No, but my Dad says get your autograph because
Dept.of Chem.Eng.~             you want be around much longer."
                 ~ "I'm pretty sure he's an idiot, but I can't *prove* it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: cummings@stein.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Monthly Mattingly Flame War
Date: 10 Jan 93 07:37:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1iojofINNpb7
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In <1993Jan10.060733.5546@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:

>A controversy isn't the mere gainsaying of what the 
>other person says, it's an exchange of thoughts and evidence in an attempt
>to reach a conclusion.

	No, it isn't.

-- 
Michael Cummings  NX7E	
cummings@u.washington.edu
"To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being
crushed under the wheels of the Imperial carriage." - _You Gotta Have Wa_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: george@sabre.cit.cornell.edu (George Boyce)
Subject: Howe phone number needed
Nntp-Posting-User: @cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:16:42 GMT

Does anyone have a phone number (or city) for Howe SportsData, the
minor league stats folks? Thanks.

George
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball