HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis)
Subject: Re: More Weirdness from the <Re: Back Again To Father> Thread
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:50:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.171338.1404@wdl.loral.com> bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt) writes:
>forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis) writes:
># dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
># >Are you proposing spousal notification for men getting a vasectomy?  
># >Currently there is no such requirement that I am aware of.
># > 
># >Husbands and wives talking may be a good thing, but is it worth 
># >letting government get involved to ensure they talk?  We would all
># >have to give up much of our privacy to ensure this.  I have had 
># >a vasectomy.  If I were to ever marry, I think it should remain
># >my choice if I do or don't inform my wife of this fact.  I very
># >much oppose someone using force of government into my personal
># >decision.
># 
># Hey ladies, this is _great_! How do you like it when the shoe's on the other 
># foot? Marry this character and you may not find out for years that you won't 
># be able to have children. His decision dramatically alters your life, yet 
># he denies you your right to know of such decisions. Without saying as much, 
># he has drastically devalued the status of motherhood; yours isn't worth even 
># the pittance of keeping you informed.
># 
># What goes around comes around, I guess.
>
>Goodness gracious me, who left the cage door open on the full moon?
>
>`Drastically devalued the status of motherhood' by having a vasectomy?

Did you read the last of the sentence, or bother to consider the 
the context? The point was the the man was entering into a fraudulent, 
misleading relationship. Basing a relationship with a woman on 
dishonesty is demeaning to that woman in my book; how 'bout yours?

>
>Chills.  Big ones.  Wearing T-shirts with numbers on them.
>
>This bozo is actually arguing for government enforcement of good
>communication among married couples.
>
This "bozo" is doing nothing of the kind; he is getting a little tired of 
these idiotic smoke- screens being tossed out to avoid dealing with the 
issue.
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
Xref: sparky soc.men:19656 soc.women:20020 talk.abortion:48787
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Back Again To Father
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:29:06 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Nov17.160053.17587@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
>mn>In article <1992Nov14.100522.14419@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
>ef>In article <forb0004.59.721688277@student.tc.umn.edu> forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis) writes:
> 
>ef>Hey ladies, this is _great_! How do you like it when the shoe's on the other 
>ef>foot? Marry this character and you may not find out for years that you won't 
>ef>be able to have children. 
> 
>mn>Eric, you've made my day here.
>mn>I had no idea that Dan was available, or that _you_ 
>mn>were authorized to offer his royal hand in marriage.
>He's just a bitter court jester.  He tried for a higher position in the
>court but was turned down for his miserable failure in trying to learn
>how to use an editor.  The position he was trying for went to a more
>qualified applicant and I think his bitterness is beginning to consume
>him.  We are very concerned.

You have an editor fetish or something? Please demonstrate for us the 
logical connection of arguments against spousal notification and of insults 
about message editing. 

A man from another country (don't remember name or origin) recently 
expressed his surprise that half the men here seemed intent on destroying 
whatever progress the other half might be making. You're a prime example, 
dude. Do you have any function here beyond spitting smug insults? 
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Androphobic Politicians
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:25:27 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <1992Nov16.215303.12892@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>  
kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat) writes:
> In article <forb0004.75.721811380@student.tc.umn.edu>  
> forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis) writes:
[...]
> > 
> > Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
> Robert Anton Wilson uses the term "Androphobia".  Since he wrote such an  
> outstanding article on it in _Magical Blend_ magazine, this is the term  
I  
> use.  Let me say it again Political Correctness does not exist.  The US  
> right wing created the hoax to neutralize any effect the Columbus  
> quincentenial might have had on election '92.  Since the term has  
infinite  
> definitions it can be used to attack anyone who bothers the speaker.  I  
> don't doubt that you are bothered, but you may not want to give energy  
to  
> the Right's propaganda machine.  IMHO they hate men more than the  
pro-ERA  
> crowd.
>   
> =========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
> "Men should not automatically have to pay for a
> child they don't want.  It's the only logical feminist position to  
take."
> -- Karen DeCrow former president of NOW
I should point out that I supported the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) and  
would again.

=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"Congress is not the sole suppository [sic] of wisdom."
  -- Rep. Bill Schuette (R-Mich)
From: kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Androphobic Politicians
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:53:03 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <forb0004.75.721811380@student.tc.umn.edu>  
forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis) writes:
[...]
> >EF>"Fear of Men" doesn't sound right to me, either, but I'm not  
familiar with a
> >EF>word that serves the function of "misogyny" for men. "Misanthropy"  
isn't
> >EF>gender specific (despite what feminists claim), and misandry sounds
> >EF>strange. Any suggestions?
> >
> >In an opinion piece in the University of Toronto "The Newspaper,"  
discussing
> >a flyer which said, among other things "Men cannot be trusted..." (and  
go
> >on from there...), I used the term "Misandronist".
> >
> >"Misandry" also seems to work, and with less letters.  :-)
> >
> 
> "Misandry" looks like it's missing a few letters between the -dry, but  
I'll 
> get used to it. 
> 
> Your opinion piece sounds interesting; how was it received? Our school  
paper 
> (Minnesota Daily) rarely publishes anything pro-male, yet this 
> invariably sends the radical feminista's into foaming paroxysms for a  
good 
> two weeks, and the ensuing flames can get twisted. But, everyone knows  
you 
> Canadians are all sweethearts... :)
> 
> Do you remember something about the (an?) Art School at Ontario going 
> radically PC, signing a resolution to hire no males for at least a 
   ^^^^^^^^^^
decade? 
> I'd like to track a newsreport down on this and follow up to see whether  
the 
> Canadian court system permitted such gross sexist discrimination to  
stand.
> 
> ---------
> 
> Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
Robert Anton Wilson uses the term "Androphobia".  Since he wrote such an  
outstanding article on it in _Magical Blend_ magazine, this is the term I  
use.  Let me say it again Political Correctness does not exist.  The US  
right wing created the hoax to neutralize any effect the Columbus  
quincentenial might have had on election '92.  Since the term has infinite  
definitions it can be used to attack anyone who bothers the speaker.  I  
don't doubt that you are bothered, but you may not want to give energy to  
the Right's propaganda machine.  IMHO they hate men more than the pro-ERA  
crowd.
  
=========SunCat++++     | kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
"Men should not automatically have to pay for a
child they don't want.  It's the only logical feminist position to take."
-- Karen DeCrow former president of NOW
From: hartman@informix.com (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Androphobic Politicians
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:25:41 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov17.093145.2587@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>Since all of the terms for man-hating based on greek words (androphobia,
>misandry, misanthropy) seem to be lacking, maybe we could coin a word based on
>the latin word for man... we could call it homophobia... ;)
>
>Ooops... i guess that one has been taken.. *laugh*  
>
>Maybe we should just speak english.  Call it 'man-hating'... i think that has a
>lot more visceral resonance.
>
>- xenon

Well, we could call it just about anything.  While "man-hating" is
certainly evocative, I think it's a bit too evocative and
restrictive.  It's not just hatred toward men, it is the whole
mistaken body of commonly held assumptions and prejudices about men,
of which man-hating is just the most blatant form.

Also, there are plenty of men who carry these prejudices, but the term
man-hater seems to be reserved for women.

I don't like "androphobia" because it isn't just fear and it isn't
necessarily irrational.  The male mistique does have a rationale,
albeit one we've hopefully outgrown.

I favor "misandry" because it encompasses the whole phenomenon of
prejudice against men, belief in the dysfunctional male roles, and
other mistaken beliefs about men.  While I realize that it would be
convenient to call it all hatred and fear and struggle valiantly against
it--while we can rally people to the cause with a more inflammatory
or judgemental term, of if nothing else, the others are easier to
pronounce than "misandry," I believe that "misandry" is the most apt
term for ingrained unconscious prejudice against men.

-r
Xref: sparky soc.men:19364 soc.women:19666
From: ricko@ee.uts.edu.au (Rick Jelliffe)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Sexual victimization of 13 year old boy
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:26:27 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
NNTP-Posting-Host: schutz.ee.uts.edu.au

mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini) writes:

>ricko@ee.uts.edu.au (Rick Jelliffe) writes:
>>carol@ee.uts.edu.au (Carol Gibson) writes:
>  
>>>	I believe sexual abuse of boys to be far more common than
>>>is realised because of the massive stigmas attatched to it. A boy who
>>>has been abused by men or boys will be seen as gay in the homophobic,
>>>patriachal society. 
> 
>>I just don't agree. Or at least, certainly not by adults. Do you actually 
>>know anyone who would think a boy was gay just because he'd been
>>molested? I don't. 

>A good friend of mine works with young boys who have been, among other
>things, sexually molested by men in their family.  By whatever
>mechanism, these boys *do* tend to internalize the idea that they are
>"gay" because of what happened to them.  Indeed, one of the most 
>common therapy themes is "just because you've been involved in an
>[involuntary] homosexual sex act does not imply you're homosexual."

I mustn't be able to write comprehensible English. I did NOT say 
"Do you actually think a boy would think he was gay because...",
I said "Do you actually know anyone who would think a boy was gay because...".
meaning third parties. To make it clearer in the sentence
before I specifically mention adults, and I explicitly say kids 
might wear the guilt themselves later in the posting. Either there
is a great difference in idiom, or the three people who have 
written to me should learn to read more less emotionally. 

I actually think that the first sexual experiences someone has can go a long 
way in habituating them. However, this is nowhere near the same thing
as being seen as gay because of a molestation. Someone who has had a bad
sexual experience  needs to face it and positively put it behind them. This
goes for adults too, though perhaps we are more prone to fall into hate
and loathing than children.

Standing up for rights can easily become an excuse for hatred and intolerance
in people who are hurt but as yet unhealed. As such, in some cases it can
paradoxically be a terribly destructive approach: failing to convince
the intended targets and keeping mental wounds open. (Illiterates please
note I said CAN and IN SOME CASES.)

-ricko
From: weverka@spot.Colorado.EDU (Robert T. Weverka)
Subject: Male Bashing List Makes the Newspaper
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:24:38 GMT


Boulder's local paper has this to offer. They welcome responses on their
Comment Line.  From a touch-tone phone, dial (303) 444-3834, dial
extension 615 during the recording to leave a 30 second message.


In the Sunday Camera November 15

----Begin included article----


*CLASSES FOR MALES

  A flier is making its way along the
Downtown Mall.  It offers a  list of so-
called _Seminars for Men_, put on by
female staffers at whatever office you
happen to work.  Here's a sampling:
* Combating Stupidity
* You Can Do Housework, Too.
* Parenting- No, It Doesn't End
With Conception
* How to Put the Toilet Lid Down.
* You Too Can Be a Designated
Driver ...


----End included article----
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: travis@eecs.nwu.edu (Travis Marlatte)
Subject: Men by Geoff
Organization: Rauland-Borg Corporation, Skokie IL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:28:24 GMT

Has anyone else tried the Men by Geoff products? I ordered the $15
sampler and have tried most of it. I'm not impressed.

I guess the premise is that these are organic products. But to me the
performance loss is too great. I really wanted to find and use good
organic products but Clinique is still my first choice.

Any other possibilities?

By the way, I don't see how most of the discussions in this group have
much to do with men in particular. For the time that I have been reading,
it seems that this is just a good cross-post group for people who want
to catch anything related to men from the other groups - like motss, women,
etc.

-- 
Travis Marlatte
travis@eecs.nwu.edu
708-297-0055
Xref: sparky soc.men:19564 soc.women:19929
From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Sexual Harassment (Personal Experience)
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:10:27 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Leonard J. Nissim (nissim@mary.fordham.edu) wrote:
: My lack of  familiarity with British slang causes me tp ask:  
: What is a pratt?  From context, it must be insulting.  

  A term used to insult those who have done something stupid or
  have a habit of doing stupid things or are not socially adpet.

		Aaron Turner	aaron@minster.york.ac.uk
Xref: sparky soc.men:19634 soc.women:19997 talk.abortion:48737
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abortion and humanity
From: <RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 19 Nov 1992 18:29:10 EST
 <92320.142727RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET><Bxyxwn.CyK@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

->
->  You `lost' me.  Are we supposed to conclude that `if it rhymes, it must
->be true'?  If THAT is the logic, I am prepared to produce a couple of
->rhymes myself!!
->
->Rohit Parikh
-
-You're right, that logic is almost as whacky as "If the Bible says it,
-it must be true
-
-Lost Boy
-

   I agree. According to the Bible, the earth is only about six thousand
years  old, but this is contradicted by a statue that someone offered to
sell me, on which the date was clearly marked:  10,000 BC.   :-)

Rohit Parikh
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: Androphobic Politicians
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:57:43 GMT

xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:

>Since all of the terms for man-hating based on greek words (androphobia,
>misandry, misanthropy) seem to be lacking, maybe we could coin a word based on
>the latin word for man... we could call it homophobia... ;)

Try the Latin root for man, "vir", as in "virile".  

Furthermore, I *think* "homo" means "human", not exclusively "men".

It's also confusing since "hom" or "homo" means "same" or "similar" 
as well.

rini

From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:57:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Male Bashing List Makes the Newspaper
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.men

weverka@spot.Colorado.EDU (Robert T. Weverka) writes:

> Boulder's local paper has this to offer. They welcome responses on their
> Comment Line.  From a touch-tone phone, dial (303) 444-3834, dial
> extension 615 during the recording to leave a 30 second message.

  I don't understand.  The newspaper wants comments on the poster, or
the ad or ?

> In the Sunday Camera November 15

> [ "Seminars for Men" poster deleted ]

  The "Seminars for Men" poster appeared here at work about a month ago.
I mentioned it to someone in the legal department, and he said he would
look at it.  The poster stayed up.

  A short while later I found a newspaper article about sexual
harassment, which I copied and taped just above the offending poster,
with the appropriate "hostile environment" passages highlighted and an
arrow pointing to the poster.  Someone else (presumably the person who
put up the poster in the first place) added a second poster (the "The
Rules" poster) and wrote on the bottom of the copied article "Equality!"
in large red letters with arrows pointing to both posters.

  A day or two later someone else wrote on the bottom of the copied
article an arrow pointing to the "Seminars for Men" poster and a note
telling to remove the poster or be reported or sexual harassment.  A
few days later both posters and the article were gone.
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
From: stone@bradley.bradley.edu (Steve Stone)
Subject: Re: ALA & Colorado
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:43:14 GMT

 These views do not necessarily represent my employer's views.

Realistically it is _way_ too late to change from Denver
as site of a Midwinter convention. I am guessing they
start booking as much as 2 years in advance. Even if we
wanted to go somewhere else, we would be lucky to find
someplace open. 

But I believe that there should be some kind of protest.
I hadn't planned on going to Denver for mid-winter (having
just been there for LITA, and having run out of travel money),
but if I was going to go, I would try to do something like
take my own peanut butter and bread for lunch, and tell
restaurants as I was passing by that I wasn't buying lunch
there because the laws are not just. And tell the hotel as
I am checking out that I had planned the trip before the law
was passed and I wasn't going to be back to Colorado any time
soon, because of the law.

I haven't taken time to actually read the law, and my opinion
might be swayed if I had the full text to examine for myself,
but it does sound like people are being denied their civil 
rights on capricious grounds. Sexual orientation is not something
that I believe that someone can change (I don't think I can
change mine, do you think you can?). We can't have people denied
life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness just because their
biological attributes are not popular.

I'm not going to Colorado anytime soon, and it is a pity, because
it was a beautiful place. 

Steve		stone@bradley.edu
-- 
Steven A. Stone 			Bradley University  
Electronic Services Librarian		Peoria, Illinois 61625
stone@bradley.bradley.edu 		(309) 677-2839 
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
From: jcl@deshaw.com (Jonathan Laventhol)
Subject: French OPAC on Internet?  Biblioteque sur Reseaux?
Keywords: OPAC, catalog, catalogue, France, French, Internet
Organization: D. E. Shaw & Co.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:25:26 GMT

Hello/Bonjour --

Can anybody tell me whether there are any French libraries on
the Internet?  Specifically I want to telnet to a catalog.  I'm
told that many (most?) libraries with online catalogs put them
on Minitel, but I hope for a direct connection.  I'm hoping
that the beautiful new Biblioteque de Bordeaux is connected.
(1 million items; new building; catalogue terminals all over.
Mmmmm.)

Quelq'un peur me dit si il-y-a aucun biblioteques francaises
sur le reseaux Internet?  Je veux utilise un catalogue avec
telnet.  On m'a dit que plusieurs (plupart?) des libraries avec
un catalogue sur ordinateur lui mettent sur Minitel, mais je
desire un connexion direct.  J'espere que la belle nouvelle
Biblioteque de Bordeaux a une connexion.  (1 millard de choses;
batiment nouveaux; beaucoup des machines de catalogue.
Delicieux.)

------------------
Jonathan Laventhol
<jcl@deshaw.com>
------------------

Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:07:57 -0500 
From: Christopher Cochran <cc7f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: ALA Mid-Winter

It's been quiet out there, folks.  How about a new topic:

I've been hearing discussions between my colleagues about whether or
not, and the merits thereof, ALA Mid-winter should pull out of Denver
due to recent political events in Colorado.

Thoughts or comments?
From: jshouman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joan-Marie Shouman)
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk
Subject: Are there any library schoolers out there?
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:48:40 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

I'm pursuing a Masters of Library and Information Science at U.T. Austin, and,
as I sit here writing a pointless paper for a rather questionable assignment,
I am wondering what other programs are like.

Tell me what your program is like.  

Do you think library school is a good thing (Ignoring entirely the fact that
most positions require an MLS/MLIS/MIS)?  Should it be worth a graduate degree?
Is an electronic support group in order? Etc.

Email is preferred, but posting is fine also.

Thanks.

-- 
___________________________________________________    	      
Joan-Marie Shouman	      |non cogito ergo	   
(jshouman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) |non sum :)	   
___________________________________________________ 
Xref: sparky soc.libraries.talk:358 soc.motss:48725
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.libraries.talk,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Librarians, ALA & Colorado
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:05:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov21.090557.13981
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <20NOV92.19051120@isdres.er.usgs.gov> rhadden@isdres.er.usgs.gov writes:
>I vote that we don't meet anywhere until we can meet at a place where no
>one has a political opinion different from anyone else.

Measure 2 isn't an opinion.  It is a repressive law that affects people
directly, not just their own opinion.


>        Get real. We should not punish (censor- HA! that should get the
>folks going!) people for making legitimate political choices.

Boycotting is not censorship.  I am very selective where my money
goes, on moral grounds......not to punish people.  I cannot give money
to oppressors.  Guess it would be comparable to me giving money to
the Japanese Gov. during WW II.


>        My vote is to meet at the cheapest place that meets our needs, and
>to leave local politics alone.
>lee hadden

So was slavery politics?