HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Justice in Sudan (was: Islamic Sabah of Kuwait)
Summary: Waiting for your answers, Hadi
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:45:45 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <3681@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F) writes:
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Eeee!  Just noticed something ...  :|

>>and they have the right to oppose it since they are not Moslems in the
first place.

>What about the Muslim majority in the other countries?  Do they have
- or not - the right to oppose secular, non-Islamic governments
that are imposing their non-Islamic laws on the people?

>Do you have something to say in that regard or are you only
taking this position because of Kuwait's non-support of the
Sudanese government?

>> How can you speak of justice when you are forcing your
beliefs on others by war?

>How can you?  How can Kuwait support a dictatorship to force
such an Islamic government - Iran - out of the Middle East
through war?  Shall we bring up the death toll figures again?

>What say you about the imposition of a military regime in
Kuwait when the overwhelming majority was forced out and
then later banned?

I meant of course, Algeria.

>Talk to me about justice.  I'm listening ...

I'm still waiting for answers ... [tap, tap]

Maybe Mr. Hadi doesn't believe in communicating with women
unless it serves his best interests ....

Anisa
	"Since when did the affairs of the state take
	precedence over the affairs of God?"
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: What is the KD? Re: When Anisa answers...
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:47:15 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btr73H.F1C.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>KD refers to the Kuwaiti Dinar.  The exchange rate between 
>KD and the dollar fluctuates between 3.1 and 3.5 dollars/1 KD (I
>believe it currently stands at 3.3).

Okay.

>So, for example, in 1984, GDP was about 20+ billion dollars and
>foreign aid was approximately 3 billion dollars.

What is GDP?  Gross domestic product?  Does the 20+ B include the
reserves or was that wiped out during the Gulf War?

>>Also, as I pointed out earlier, one of the tacit purposes 
of KFAED was to take provide a direct line of aid to people in 
poorer countries, bypassing the corruption involved in 
governmental contracting procedures.

Hmmm.... the Bank of Kuwait dealt directly without government
knowledge?

What about post-War?  Is Kuwait still generously providing
aid and loans?

Do you know what the percentages are in view of support to
Iraq?

I'll be even more impressed if I see current stats.  But I
appreciate your effort.

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: John Elghani ignoring Anisa and Marwan calling everyone names (was Re: Anwar Mohammed calling Anisa names)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:05:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.185822.2431742@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <BtMH14.FMo.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>In article <3636@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>>Bosnia-Hercegovina) and morons like you insist on repeating complete 
>			^^^^^^^^
>Is this the statement of a man named "Anwar Mohammed" calling a moslem
>lady moron?   You actually have guts to carry the name "Mohammed"?
>I am sure Pr. Mohammed PBUH would be disgusted with such manners.  Why
>don't you name yourself "Anwar Brijnaive" or rather "Anwar Bush".
>
>It looks like liberation of Kuwait made our Kuwaiti change not only
>there arabism, but rather there islamism.  I am wondering now about
>Shaikh Al Qattan, is he named Manakhim Al Qattan?


It amazes me.  Anisa and Marwan freely insult me and Kuwaitis in 
general, yet, when I fight back against these paragons of Islam,
I am branded.   I Pr. Mohammed PBUH would be disgusted by your taking
his name to justify your hypocritical attack against me.  I am sure
he would be disgusted by anyone attempting to use his name in 
such a debasing manner.


>
>So, when is Kuwait going to assign Sharon or Shamir as the ambasidor
>of kuwait in some nation.   

When a true word escapes your lips, ie. never.

>It looks like stolen money and stolen land
>go along together.
>
>jle
>


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 13:45:13 GMT

While most readers of this newsgroup might regard John Elghani's posters
as nothing but lunatic ravings, they have both historical and 
actual importance. The blind fundamentalism, the inability to face
the real problems but to attribute them to some absurd conspiracy
theory, the total refusal to listen to the other side and to logic -
exactly the techniques that the Arab dictators used and are using
to keep their people inside a black hole of hatered and ignorance,
thus insuring the continuation of their rule.

-Danny Keren.
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:19:10 GMT
Followup-To: il.board
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <28AUG199209590256@vms.huji.ac.il>, rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
+  "Communications of the ACM" (CACM) is a monthly publication of the
+  Association for Computing Machinery, a computer science professional
+  society.  The August 1992 issue of CACM includes an article in the
+  "International Perspectives" department by Sy Goodman and Jerrold Green
+  entitled "Computing in the Middle East".  Goodman is a professor of MIS at
+  University of Arizona, and Green is Director of the Center for Middle
+  Eastern Studies at the U of A.
+  
+  Guess which country is hardly mentioned?  Israel, the computer science
+  regional super-power.  "Snapshots" (individual segments) are taken of
+  Egypt, Iran, Jordan, and Syria, but there is scant attention paid to Israel.
+  In fact, Israel is *only* mentioned only in these three sentences (out of a
+  4 page article):
+  
+  1. "The role, status, and future of the information technologies (IT) in
+     the Middle East, with the partial exception of Israel and Turkey, have
+     been largely ignored or misunderstood by most of the world." (1st
+     sentence in the article).


	This is the reason why neither Israel nor Turkey are surveyed
	in this article. I think they were trying in this article to 
	relate the copmuting state in the region to socio-cultural
	aspects, to which Israel would have been a marked exception
	if included. No question, the title is misleading, but
	I wouldn't take it so personal.
                                       

Noam

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:47:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.002020.8830@panther.mot.com> ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>In article <3680@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug31.223346.1689@panther.mot.com> ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>>>
>>>Not to mention Jewish religious sites that were not significant to Muslims also
>>>being destroyed.
>>
>>And these are / were ... ?
>>
>>Anisa
>
>for starters the ancient Jewish Synoguges and Cemetary.  The headstones where
>used for cobblestones.  
>
>-- 
>
>>
>Ron Feigen
>ronf@panther.mot.com

As long as I am posting on this subject a comment about the current Eggert
debate regarding the Mezuza holes in doorways.

Hey guys this is getting ridiculious.  It seems as if a lot of speculating is
being done (by everyone), with no basis in fact as to how the decision of 
property ownership have been made.  

If anybody in Israel has some FACTS could they please post.

In '48 the Jewish presence in E. Jerusalim was "eleminated" by the Arabs. At 
that time I believe (I could check, but I am sure someone will correct me if I
am wrong) the majority of the population of Jerusalim was Jewish.  If I am
mistaken about being the majority then they definately had a HUGE presence in
the old city.  Anyway the Jews were either killed or fled to Israel, and Jewish
sites (Synoguges, ect..) were destroyed.  The private property of the Jewish 
residents of E. Jerusalim were taken by the local population.

The Arabs lost EJ in yet another failed attempt to destory Israel.  EJ was 
annexed and the Arab citizens given FULL Israeli citizenship.  In recent years
there have been actions taken to reclaim property that was taken from the
original Jewish owners.  In several of these cases the residents "claimed"
that their families had lived in these houses for 100s of years.  What made
these claims notorious was that the houses had the marking from removed
Mezuzas which certainly made it appear as if these claim where blatant lies.
Sort of a smoking gun, if you will.  Not in itself proof but certainly the stuff
that makes great headlines.  Not unlike the bank robber that returned to the 
same teller (after the robbery) because he forgot to make his deposit (a
supposely true story).  It is hard to believe anyone can be that stupid.

Was this all the proof that the Israeli courts needed to determine ownership?
I doubt it, but it is the sort of thing that makes headlines.  How was ownership
determined?  I don't know, do any of the participants in this debate? Jim? 
David? Anyone?

-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: Eggert vs. Livni
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 12:31:17 GMT


In a previous article, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) says:

>
>Jakes ludicrous constructions on 242 are in fact belied by the preamble
>"Emphasizing the inadmissibility of acquisition of territory by war". If 242
>could be interpreted as Jake attempts, ie that Israel is only obliged to return
>part of the territories in return for recognition the preamble would read
>differently.

Phill conveniently ignores the historical reality that Egypt and Jordan
originally took the territories by force.  Thus, the return of the
territories itself would be accepting the acquisition of territory by force.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
From: barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F)
Subject: Re: What are you sucking on, Anwar?  (was Re: John Elghani sucking on his toes)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:36:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.215455.2446696@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> >
> >Remember, those oil wells were not purchased by those thief Amirs.  When
> >OIL was discovered in the Gulf and other parts of the ME, people
> >that were in charge took it all.  An old Bahrain man was
> >describing these stories to a Lebanese journalist, and the 
> >interview was published in the Lebanese newspaper Sawt Al Haq.   The
> >man saying how those Amirs took those oil wells.   When an oil field
> >is discovered, the Sheikh or Amir then comes and says: its all mine,
> >mine, mine.  Recall, the Sabah family has been controlling Kuwait
> >way before the OIL was discovered in that land.    Ask Anwar,
> >why doesn't his father own some 100 oil wells like typical
> >Sabahis?

Correction: According to the Constitution of Kuwait, all natural resources
(i.e. oil) are owned by the state for the benefit of the people. The
state is composed of the Emir who appoints the cabinet (The Executive
Body) and an elected National Assembly (The Legislative Body).

You are insulting Kuwaitis by claiming that the oil wells are owned by
``Sabahis'' unless of course if you mean by ``Sabahis'' all Kuwaitis.

> >
> >jle
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
> >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >

---barrak

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Organization: LC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:34:13 GMT

In article <3628@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.120204.17755@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>Truly free democratic elections in Arab couould probably also help.
>
>Yes, but do you have any solutions on getting rid of the dictators
>first?

Good shot Anisa.

Remember, the   U S A  re-planted the dictator of Kuwait after he
was extracted from power.  Bush, the peace/democracy lover as he claims,
could've allowed free elections in Kuwait instead of letting the wolves
return to eating the sheep.

>Anisa

jle
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 27 Aug 92 08:56:48 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Aug26.173825.23137@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
=>In article <1992Aug26.125404.7896@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
=>>They showed a marked preference for the Castro regime over the US imposed
=>>Batista regime which turned Cuba into a whorehouse for rich american playboys.
=>>
=>>The US had her chance to bring democracy to Cuba after she invaded. Instead Cuba
=>>was run as a colony until Castro.
=>
=>While the Batista regime was certainly not a nice one, anyone who would
=>call the Castro regime anything approaching democracy needs their head
=>examined.

No-one said that tha Castro regime was a democracy, only that the Cubans
preferred it to being run by a thug like Batista.

=>Learn to read what people actually say, don't hallucinate, don't make up
=>things that you want others to think that someone said that they clearly
=>did not, and some might take you seriously.

Quite.


-- 
==================================================================
-Jeremy Henderson            |  Une souris verte
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Qui courrait dans l'herbe
==================================================================
From: anik@crhc.uiuc.edu (Sadun Anik)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.history,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: conscripts who can't swim
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:39:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: lyra.ANIK.92Sep4153935
	<1992Sep4.155120.7805@eecs.nwu.edu>
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyra.crhc.uiuc.edu
In-reply-to: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu's message of Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:51:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.155120.7805@eecs.nwu.edu> efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu (Serafim Efstratiadis) writes:

>What's his name Serdar "Consulati Electronik Haber Tsoglan" writes:

>> Sea novices: Although famed as a maritime nation and despite being
>> surrounded by seas, a report has disclosed that only one in ten
>> conscripts called up to join the Greek navy can swim.
						     ~~~~
>> 
>> Poor "paliks".

>"Swim" or "scuba dive"? Scuba-diving is pretty popular in Greece.
>But of course, scuba-divers can not swim, can they? :-)

>Serafim.

  This has nothing to do with the original posting but a good friend
of mine here got his PADI certificate last year. He could barely stay 
afloat in water. I was in the pool with him trying to teach two days
before his swimming test for the scuba-diving course. He has
instructor licence now and I think he can cross the pool (25m) without
fins or snorkel/mask. Then again, this is the middle of Illinois.



--
Sadun Anik, U of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Center for Reliable and High-performance Computing
e-mail: anik@crhc.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.war
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Where is everyone?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:01:13 GMT

During the last week or two, I have witnessed the number of real content
articles - regardless of viewpoint - go down, while the share of articles
by Mr. Mutlu has increased dramatically.  Last week, for example,
there was one particularly bad instance where 32 messages remained
unread before I tried reading them, and my kill file then proceeded to
destroy *31* of those 32 messages.  There are only two names in my kill
file for tpm:  Hasan Mutlu's and Ralph Winston's.  None of those
messages were Winston's.  

The result?  Talk.politics.mideast has effectively become
talk.politics.mutlu.  Many of you have been on this net long enough to
recall the effort undertaken by Nevo Hed and Sandra Reyes earlier this
summer:  Operation Reclaim TPM.  For about two months it was successful,
but currently Mutt-lu is back, and more rabid than ever.

At this point I have become thoroughly disgusted with the situation, and
call for a renewal of Operation Reclaim TPM.  Talk.politics.mideast is
for the discussion of current and past middle eastern politics, and not
for the discussion of quotes posted over and over again, in response to
authors too numerous to name, and so often posted completely out of
context - as Mr. Milson has so diligently shown.  In fact, the posting
of material more than a few times repeatedly is a violation of
netiquette, as has been pointed out to Mr. Mutlu before.   It also is
not for the trashing of anyone who treads on one particular person's pet
peeves.  Hear me well, Mutlu:  Everyone is entitled to their own
opinion, and *NOT NECESSARILY YOUR* opinion.  

Let's reclaim tpm as a medium for pluralistic debate, not autocratic
dictation!


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:32:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btp39J.Cy0.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.191306.2431880@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>
>>Question to Mr. Anwar Mxxxxxxd:

:-)  Yeah - he doesn't deserve a name such as the beautiful Prophet of
Allah - SAWS.

>>Would you rather see Kuwait run by a 100% true moslem government
>>with a 100% true moslem leader regardless if the leader was Kuwaiti,
>>Iraqi, or Afghani?  Or you'd rather have the Shabah family continue
>>to ride Kuwait.
>
>I would like to see Kuwait run by a Kuwaiti, just like I'd like to 
>see Lebanon run by Lebanese, Syria run by Syrians, Jordan run by 
>Jordanians, Egypt run by Egyptians, etc.  My personal opinion is that
>state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
>You've got a problem with that?

Obviously my brother, Anwar has a big problem with his Kuwaiti government
even becoming *remotely* religious in philosophy or ideology.  First of
all, because Anwar himself does not follow Islamic dogma and secondly,
and probably more importantly; that would put too many individuals at
a great disadvantage concerning their thirst for power, distributing
the wealth according to Islamic guidelines, and not having monetary
control and influence over the Middle East - in association with their
partners, the British and Americans.

Plus, you know what they say - no one wants to hear the truth.

Anisa
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:48:08 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Sep1.051857.27252@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F) writes:
>
>Yes it is. This originates from the Prophet Mohammed's effective
>manipulation of the political events around him which made him an
>immediate success story as opposed to Jesus and Moses for example.

What exactly was that "effective manipulation", Hadi?

>I, by the way, agree with you and Anwar that Islam (and religions in
>general) should have only limited involvement in politics, especially 
>in societies that have sizable non-Moslem populations in them, like 
>Sudan (27%), Lebanon (36%), Indonisia (13.1%), ...etc.

So, then you believe that the strife in Lebanon will cease should the
Maronite, Druze, Shiia, and Sunni factions be reduced in their political
power, or that the secular, non-religious governments surrounding it
should be expelled and allow Lebanon to continue with her own sovereignity
to choose a political system?

Do you have a resolution to the other two Third World nations in view
of stabilizing their own political structures?

Anisa
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: KING FAHD AND SADDAM ARE FRIENDS AGAIN.  SURPRISED?
Date: 2 Sep 92 08:42:50 GMT
Organization: LC

LOOK WHAT I FOUND ON SOC.CULTURE.AFGHANISTAN.  King Fahd called
Saddam yesterday morning  for FAJR (morning) prayer.  It looks
like Israel can no longer trust its best ally KING FAKHD.


From: hermi@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.afghanistan
Subject: King Fahd protests 'no fly' policy against Iraq
Date: 1 Sep 1992 18:39:49 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

>Subject: King Fahd protests 'no fly' policy against Iraq
Date: Mon., Aug. 31, 22.30 +2 GMT
Slug-word: King Fahd, Saudi Arabia, Iraq
Format: regular


(DWYA)-Riadh, Saudi Arabia-- In a news conference held at a tent in the 
outskirts of Riadh, the Custodian of the two holy shrines, King Fahd al-
Saud denied reports by the American ABC station that the U.S. and its allies
are using its bases in Dahran and Tabuk to monitor Baghdad's compliance with
the latest 'no-fly' restriction imposed on Saddam's regimes.  The news
conference was held following reports by international news agencies that 
Russia is sending two navy ships to help implement the U.N. resolution. "I
personally called Saddam this morning to wake him for Fajr prayer, and told
him that Saudi Arabia and the Arav States are '100 %' behind president Saddam
and brotherly Iraq," the King said."  

The King's shift seems to be at odds with reports by international 
wires that the Kingdom along with other Gulf States want a 'clean job' 
from Western powers. The King added that " we are not a US protectorate 
as might Arab masses think. We have about ten thousand we helped train 
in the Hindukush mountains during the Afghan Jihad and we are going to 
use them whenever needed. We learned the Egyptian experience with the U.K. 
and the Tunisian one with France at the end of the 19th century and we will 
not repeat the same mistakes," the King emphasized. 

Observers in the region recorded massive regroupings of troops on 
the Jordanian border, near the port city of Aqava.  They see it as a major 
intimidation of the only democracy in the middle east, so far unchallenged 
by Arav States. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast