From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Is Islam equal to Intolearnce and Fascism ?
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:34:24 GMT

In article <25AUG199217581428@juliet.caltech.edu> mughal@juliet.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.224302.28391@newton.ccs.tuns.ca>, jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes...
>> 
>>It may be a mere coincidence but the people of Pakistan happen to be HUMANs,
>>and the Islamic system which is assumed supreme in Pakistan violates those
>>people's RIGHT to decide their destiny.
>
>     We disagree. Islam is a religion of compasssion and mercy and for the
>     benefit of humanity. It, by default, is not against the rights of people.
>     It gives a decent way of life in which everyone can live in peace and
>     harmony. 

It's time for the same thing again I guess.. only the person keeps changing.
You keep repeating the same thing again and again, and I keep proving how
it is wrong.

Who cares if Islam isn't by default against the rights of people. The fact
is that Islam, which is assumed supreme in Pakistan, denies the people right
to choose a system other than Islam. 

No one has a right to enforce a system on people saying that "It gives a 
decent way of life in which everyone can live in peace and harmony." The
people have an inherent right to decide against a system they consider
outdated and barbaric.

>> 
>>>
>>>	I think you are isolating one possible factor which can be taken
>>> 	as ignoring the theory. Let me highlight one other factor, the 
>>>	U.S. Govt. supported Zia regime and its actions  so was U.S. Govt.
>>>	involved in crushing the "MRD" too? Was it really for restoration of
>>>	democracy or one political party's way of trying to the office ? 
>>>
>> 
>>You should be ashamed of yourself for saying this. What political affiliation
>
>     Well, I am not, no need to be. I think I do have the right to ask the 
>     question which I think is very relevant if we do intent to discuss the 
>     matter by looking at all the factors and not by isolating those which fit 
>     one's theory.
>

You sure do have a right to ask any question you like. But, I also have a right
to say that asking questions regarding issues about which a common Pakistani
knows that they are facts amounts to lying. That you question known facts is
tantamount to denying them. What you are suggesting is similar to considering 
the case that US is currently under a communist rule. Certainly any relatively
normal individual will find disregarding such a hypothesis useful in any
discussion, given the fact that it is not true.

>>do you think people of villages throughout Pakistan's Sindh province shared 
>>because of which they were persecuted like that?? Do you even have the courage
>
>     I don't know.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>
>>to acknowledge that so many people were killed???   If most of the political
>
>     What will my acknowledgement do ? Nor does it needs any courage.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>
>>parties of a country (including the most popular party) take an initiative
>>against a military dictator, what's so wrong about it?? Do the people have
>
>     I never said there is anything wrong it. I am a asking question regarding
>     the intent of a political party in launching such a movement, I will
>     like to hear your thoughts. 
>

What would the most popular political party anywhere in the world hope for
as a result of such a movement... Does the fact that being the most popular,
they are more likely to get elected disqualify them from taking part in a
struggle to liberate the people. Why are you so determined to not allow 
your mind to think beyond what appears to support "your" contention.. Why
are you trying so intensely to convert a human rights issue to a discussion of
Pakistani political parties. 

>>to fight without any leaders to deserve credibility??
>
>     I don't know. I haven't seen it happen or form an opinion on it.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>> 
>>>>
>>>>Let me ask you one question. Does Islam recognise the people's right
>>>>to decide against an Islamic system?
>>>
>>>	I will like to think yes. There are many many countries which have 
>>>	chosen to decide against the Islamic system or any religion system
>>>	as their  basis, separating 'church' and the state. 
>> 
>>I did not ask whether it is possible that a country with muslim majority
>>be without an "Islamic" system. I know it is possible... and that's what I'm
>>hoping will happen in Pakistan one day. 
>
>     In that case, you must be happy because as it is, Pakistan doesn't have
>     an Islamic System. :)  
>> 
>> 

So.. do you expect the people to wait till the final step is taken in replacing
the assumed Islamic system with adoption of Islam as the constitution? I'm not 
surprised you find it funny. As you mentioned earlier, you don't find reason
to be ashamed...

What did your posting contain anyway.. other than a bunch of "I don't know"'s?
The only thing you seem to know is that you disagree with me... that you don't
find a reason to be ashamed of for telling plain lies.. and that you must try
to convert this discussion about violation of Pakistan's people's rights to
a debate about its political parties. Doesn't a feeling of guilt ever spoil
your sleep that it is because of people like you showing indifference toward
the pathetic atmosphere in Pakistan that results in murders of people in the
name of Islam???

If that's all you know, then I have better things to do than trying to 
explain things to you... and probably you could also do better than challenging
people who, you seem to acknowledge, know more than you do.

>
>Asim Mughal
>[Standard Disclaimer]

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882