HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: Reenactors
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:05:37 GMT

In article <14256@borg.cs.unc.edu>, weaver@altair.cs.unc.edu (Laura Weaver) writes:
> 

Hi Laura,

Seems the entire message didn't come across. All that I got of your
husbands unit was Company G...

Marc D. Jerome
jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: bennett@Amber.mcs.kent.edu (Dan Bennett)
Subject: Re: Confederate Flags
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:44:42 GMT

Once again, my ignorance shows through.  Would some kind sole please tell
me which flag looks like this?

         +-----------+
         |\*\     /*/|
         | \*\   /*/ |
         |  \*\ /*/  |
         |   \*V*/   |
         |    \*/    |
         |    /*\    |
         |   /*^*\   |
         |  /*/ \*\  |
         | /*/   \*\ |
         |/*/     \*\|
         +-----------+
 
(Well, kinda but you know the one)

Thanks, 
Dan
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Bennett                                  (bennett@mcs.kent.edu)

	                             Department of Mathematical and
Systems Staff                        Computer Sciences.
				     Kent State University
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pete@chem.ucsd.edu (Peter Wotruba)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Looking for copy of PBS video The Civil War
Date: 31 Jul 1992 15:40:37 GMT
Organization: University of California San Diego, Chemistry
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

I would likt to get a copy of the series, The Civil War, that ran on
PBS a few years ago.  If anyone has it, and wants to sell it, or would
be willing to copy it for me, I am willing to pay for the tapes plus
any shipping costs.  Thanks

Peter Wotruba
(pwotruba@ucsd.edu)
From: kcj@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com (Kevin Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Grant's War
Keywords: Books
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:21:52 GMT
Organization: Datapoint Corporation, San Antonio, TX

Has anybody out there read Grant's War?  Review?
From: weaver@altair.cs.unc.edu (Laura Weaver)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Reenactors
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:51:15 GMT



Sorry about not getting in all of my previous post.  Here it is again; hope it
makes it this time.  I must confess, the first boo-boo was probably my fault,
not that of the newsfeed.

Another re-enactor here and a lurker in this newsgroup.  My husband is a 
private in Company G of the 26th NC Regiment and I am a member of the Ladies'
Aide Society.  Anybody else "watching" from NC?


Laura Weaver
weaver@cs.unc.edu
Comp Sci Dept.
UNC-CH
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: ....gee.......
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:29:03 GMT

In article <gkq7NB1w164w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>[re the PBS television series "The Civil War" produced by Ken Burns]
>
>pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn) writes:
>
> (Deleted)
>> 
>> Also, almost every general except for Grant and Lee is described as either
>> incompetent (northern gens) or "ruthless killers" (southern).
>
>Let's face it, a lot of the Northern generals *were* incompetent, although I 
>think many of the histories have glossed over the incompetence of some of 
>the Southern generals. As for the "ruthless killers" bit, I found little 
>evidence of that in the Burns series, except for the recounting Nathan 
>Bedford Forrest -- and frankly, he *was* a ruthless killer.

The South had its share of less than brilliant generals.  Beauregard wasn't
the reincarnation of Napoleon, and neither was Macgruder.  (G. W.?) Smith was
practically paralysed on the Peninsula in 1862.

_Lee's Lieutenants_ made the point that a number of very promising colonels
and brigadier generals were killed or too badly wounded to continue in the
service, thus never reaching the highest commands.  That's true in the Union
forces, too.  Look at Reynolds, offered command of the Army of the Potomac
(he turned the job down) and killed early in the fighting at Gettysberg.

As for ruthless killers, seems to me that Sherman was just as ruthless as
any southern general.

What about General "Beast" Butler?  I vaguely remember he got his nickname 
for threatening to lock up some southern ladies in New Orleans.  I believe 
he was corrupt and a poor battlefield general, but was he responsible for
any atrocities?

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: News Item
Keywords: submitted without comment
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:23:31 GMT


	RICHMOND, Va. (UPI) -- The nation's only black governor, within hours
of finding out a Virginia Air National Guard unit had an insignia
bearing the Confederate stars and bars, ordered the symbols removed and
replaced.
	The 149th Fighter Squadron had used the Department of Defense-
approved insignia since 1947. It has the stars and bars inside a red
circle and an eagle clutching bombs in its claws atop the circle.
	The squadron took out a copyright on the insignia two years ago to
prevent its use by ``fringe groups for hate purposes,'' said Maj.
Stewart MacInnis.
	Some black members of the unit found the insignia offensive because
of its connection with slavery, and an alternative Richmond newspaper
broke the story on Thursday.
	Hours later, Gov. L. Douglas Wilder issued an executive order 
``effective immediately'' to scrap the insignia.
	Friday, the patches were removed from flight suits and decals were
removed from the F-16s. Wilder said it was the only state-sanctioned use
of the Confederate flag ``that I know of,'' and added if others were
found, similar orders would be issued.
	Wilder has taken few overtly racial actions during his term, although
he started his legislative career 20 years ago with a move against the
slave references in the state song.
	The grandson of slaves recently finished the first trade mission ever
undertaken by an America governor to Africa, ordered the state to divest
itself of South African investments and has appointed a record number of
minorities to state boards.
	Wilder's press secretary, Glenn Davidson, when asked what prompted
the governor to replace the symbol, replied: ``The fact that it existed.
''
	MacInnis, a guard spokesman, said the insignia ``is not there to
represent slavery. It represents the heritage of the Virginia militia.
	``I think there's some disappointment among the pilots...but at the
same time, everyone understands that it has to be changed. I think
everyone realized it would have to be changed sooner or later,''
MacInnis said.
	``The next step is for the unit to sit down and work out a new design
to add the American flag. We just have to work out the details.''
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Reenactor
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:48:11 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs


As I'm sure everyone knows, I am a Private in the 3rd US Artillery, Battery L. 

(National Civil War Assoc.) 

JZ
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: renge@halcyon.com (Robert Hilton)
Subject: Re: Ben Butler (was .....gee.....)
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:30:59 GMT

spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:

>petersgj@cis9.b10.ingr.com (Gary J. Peters) writes:

[Some text deleted....]


>Butler was then sent to command the Fort Fisher operation. He landed
>his troops, but when he heard Hoke was moving on his rear from
>Wilmington, he reembarked and returned to Hampton Roads. At that
>point, Grant lost patience and asked Lincoln to relieve Butler. That
>was the end of Butler's career as an officer, although I do not recall
>whether that relief was with prejudice.

I think there was also a point that the Navy didn't wear down Fort
Fisher as well as they could have, and it was a tougher nut than
expected, even though the ships threw a lot of iron at it.  You know,
the shooting at the flag thing, so that is one credit to him.  I
remember that Butler went to Congress and the Armed Services Committee
(I think) and was demanding a review of his relief by the President.  Of
course the relative merits of his case were sunk when during the
committee hearings, there came a messenger into the meeting that said
that Fort Fisher HAD just been taken, by Butler's relief.  If memory
serves, the committee absolved him of any blame for the earlier failure
to take Fort Fisher, but neither did they force the president to give
Butler another command, nor did they reprimand Admiral Porter or Grant;
one of those protect your pride by your friends thing.

					Robert Hilton
					renge@halcyon.com
From: wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil (Dennis Wang)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: "Beast" Butler
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Research Lab

In article <1992Jul21.162903.13491@news.iastate.edu>, Paul J Hollander writes:
>What about General "Beast" Butler?

I've read Ben Butler's autobiography which a descendant of his lent me from the family library.  He, of course, claims that the full nickname is "Beast of New Orleans" and that it resulted from his declaring all of the cotton in New Orleans as contrabrand.

I think Ben Butler was not a very good general.  He was in charge of the failed attempt to take Fort fisher in NC and didn't do much in the Penisula.  He was a political appointee with no military training except for raising a company of Massachusetts volunteers in Lowell MA.  

However, he was a good administrator.  Most accounts say that he did a fine job of running New Orleans for the Union.  He was progressive for the time, in favor of the 6-day work week and the 10-hour day (as opposed to the 12 hour day).  He advocated using colored troops, saying that they could be taught to be good soldiers.  He purchased out of his own pocket, some of the first gatling guns.  These views did not win him friends and he constantly clashed with the West Pointers.
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: Ted Wagner <trwagner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Reenactor
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:26:41 -0500

In article <5406@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> tecump@ucsb.edu (Dal Bello) writes:
>jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>
>> Hello to a fellow re-enactor.
>
>Bully for you!  I too wear the blue.
>I wonder how many on the group are reenaactors?

	Here y'are!  Got another up here in Indiana!

Ted

Reenactor AND living historian
-- 
"All my life's a circle, but I can't tell you why..."-- Harry Chapin
"Words to live by..."-- Bruce Springsteen on "Tribute to Harry Chapin"
-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu   &    trwagner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: ellingrw@infonode.ingr.com (Bob Ellington)
Subject: Re: CW movies
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:38:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.210838.1731@news.iastate.edu> pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:
>
>Jimmy Stewart was in a Civil War film (made in the 50s???) about a farmer who
>said the war was no business of his, but he and his family wound up in the 
>thick of it.  Name escapes me; "Shanandoah" perhaps?
>
>Disney made one called "The Great Train Robbery," and Buster Keaton made
>a silent named "The General" based on the same theme.  I bought the videotape
>of "The General."  It's pretty good, except they didn't put a sound track of
>any kind on it.  8^(
>
>Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
>Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
>
>

I came in late to this thread so this may have been listed already.
"The Outlaw Josey Wales" was set during and at the end of the CW.
Another Clint Eastwood flick, about a southern farmer whose house is
raided by the red-legs and his family is killed.  He joins the war
mostly to get revenge.  At the end of the war everyone in his troop
go to turn themselves in and the red-legs murder them.  Josey is then
a renegade running from the red-legs.  Great flick!
From: weaver@altair.cs.unc.edu (Laura Weaver)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Reenactors
Summary: I am also a re-enactor.  My husband is a private in Company G of the
	 26th Regiment, NC and I am in the Ladies' Aide Society.  Anybody else
	 out there "watching" from NC?
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:05:00 GMT


Laura Weaver
weaver@cs.unc.edu
From: tecump@ucsb.edu (Dal Bello)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Butler
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:35:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

One of the best stories regarding Butler is that some
company manufactured a chamber pot with his image on 
the bottom!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:00:30 -0400 
From: "Joshua M. Sabloff" <jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ....gee.......
	<1992Jul21.162903.13491@news.iastate.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.alt.war.civil.usa: 21-Jul-92 Re: ....gee.......
Paul J Hollander@iastate (1776)

> What about General "Beast" Butler?  I vaguely remember he got his
> nickname for threatening to lock up some southern ladies in New Orleans.
>  I believe he was corrupt and a poor battlefield general, but was he
> responsible for any atrocities?

I had always thought Butler's nickname was "spoons" because of all the
New Orleans silver he "accidently sent" back to his home in
Massachusetts.  Then again, people had more than one nickname!
Atrocities?  Not on the order of Forrest et al.  He was a little strict
during his goverenance of N'Orleans; he threatened to lock any lady up
who was disrespectful towards the occupying troops.

-Josh Sabloff
"We are the keepers of the three sacred words:
 Nee, Pen, and Nee-wom"
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Re: Question regarding 1st Bull Run/Manassass
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:37:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.130623.18957@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, 07850_LS writes:
>I have been puzzeled for some time about the early evolution of the war. 
>How exactly did Lincoln's position change from telling the South, "You can 
>have no conflict without you yourselves being the agressor," in his inaugral 
>address to sending McDowell on an invasion of Virginia four months later?

I think you answer your own question with the next line...
 
>This period between the bloodless fall of Fort Sumter and (at that time) the 
>bloodiest battle ever fought on North America would seem to be the most 
>critical in understanding the politics of the day...

I think the official position was that the Rebels fired the first shot. But I 
also think that it was a "He hit me first" kind of thing. Both sides were 
spoiling for a fight, imho. There wasn't going to be any avoiding it. Even if
Lincoln had abandoned Sumter and accepted secession, I think it would have
come to war soon anyway, over navigation of the Mississippi river, if nothing
else.  

>Did they simply not know what they were in for?

Well, some of them did, and they were suspected of insanity... ;^) 

JZ

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: bjm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Bobbie J. Mann)
Subject: Re: bedford forrest
Keywords: forrest, ft pillow
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:54:03 GMT

furr@pilot.njin.net (Grover Furr) writes:


>	What is the evidence that Bedford Forrest did NOT kill black
>union soldiers and their officers after their surrender at Ft Pillow
>in 1864? I've seen it said that this is "not proven."

>	Second: I've also seen it written that Forrest, who helped
>found the Ku Klux Klan in Pulaski, TN after the war, quit it after a
>year because he opposed the violence. 

Forrest ordered it disbanded in 1869 and withdrew from it.  Of course,
the organization continued to operate until 1877 when the last federal
troops were removed from the South.


Roland

>	Anyone who knows of any good evidence on either of these two
>points, please e-mail it to me; I'd appreciate it very much. And
>thanks.

>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Grover C. Furr

>Home: 121 Oakland Terrace               Work: English Department
>      Newark, NJ 07106                        Montclair State College
>      ARS AA2GP                               Upper Montclair, NJ 07043
>email: furr@pilot.njin.net
>       furr@apollo.montclair.edu
> 
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Civil War Pix in alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:52:39 GMT


OK folks, this afternoon I will post all 11 of my Civil War
pictures to the newsgroup: alt.binaries.pictures.misc

This is my first attempt at posting pictures, so please
bear with me. 

If you can't get that group. Write me a mail message and I'll
mail them directly to you. 

JZ
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Subject: Re: News Item
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:55:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.182331.18326@odin.corp.sgi.com>
zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
 
>	RICHMOND, Va. (UPI) -- The nation's only black governor, within hours
> of finding out a Virginia Air National Guard unit had an insignia
> bearing the Confederate stars and bars, ordered the symbols removed and
> replaced....
 
The "Stars & Bars" still flies daily over the Mississippi state capitol,
doesn't it?
 
Not that I approve.
  --  In my personal opinion, Confederate flags (Stars & Bars, etc.) represent
      regional pride in many of the ideals of the Confederacy (spunkiness,
      self-sufficiency, independence, etc.).  It's understandable to be proud
      of such things.
  --  However, those flags also stood for a system which relied on
      labor-intensive agriculture almost exclusively for its existence:
      Slavery.  The symbolism of the Confederate flag was tainted with stains
      of arrogance and bigotry right from the birth of the Confederacy.
 
Pollution makes even an otherwise clear, cool mountain spring undrinkable.
 
I approve of Gov. Wilder's action.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
[Born in the northeast U.S., of European-American ancestry.]
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: georgek@portia.caltech.edu (Komatsoulis, George A.)
Subject: Butler's eventual removal
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:04:00 GMT

In article (some characters) spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes...
>was the end of Butler's career as an officer, although I do not recall
>whether that relief was with prejudice.
> 
Butler went to tell his side of the story to the Joint Committee on the Conduct
of the War. Foote says that as he was telling th story of why he failed that
news of Terry's victory at Fort Fisher was announced. He also notes that Butler
was exonerated and commended for saving lives by calling off the attack.

Just goes to show you how far a little influence will go....

George A. Komatsoulis
Division of Biology, 147-75, California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA 91125
george@seqvax.bio.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Civil War Pictures, anyone?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:56:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.220714.3781@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>
>angle.gif - A drawing of the fighting at "the angle" Which "angle" in 
>            particular, I don't know. (could be G'burg, could be Shiloh, could
>            be anywhere, really....how many "bloody angles" did we have?)
>
"The" Bloody Angle is usually the one at Spotsylvania, isn't it?
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Re: ....gee.......
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:04:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.162903.13491@news.iastate.edu>, Paul J Hollander writes:
>What about General "Beast" Butler?  I vaguely remember he got his nickname 
>for threatening to lock up some southern ladies in New Orleans.  I believe 
>he was corrupt and a poor battlefield general, but was he responsible for
>any atrocities?

Before you go villifying old Ben Butler, check out his performance later in the 
war on the east coast. (He held some seaboard territory...) I'm not real familiar
with the history of it, but my recollection is that he did a very good job.

JZ

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: bedford forrest
Keywords: forrest, ft pillow
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 05:10:34 GMT

In article <Jul.23.00.48.17.1992.24135@pilot.njin.net> furr@pilot.njin.net (Grover Furr) writes:
>
>	What is the evidence that Bedford Forrest did NOT kill black
>union soldiers and their officers after their surrender at Ft Pillow
>in 1864? I've seen it said that this is "not proven."
>
I was of the distinct impression that the incident happened. Maybe the
claim is that it is not proven that Forrest ordered it, or isn't proven
that he participated, or something like that.

No help on the other, I fear... :(
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: Reenactor
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:08:20 GMT

I'm a private in the Third Battery, Michigan Light Artillery.  I have
also had the pleasure and privilege of fighting alongside Jeff Z in 
Battery L, while visiting in California earlier this month.
--Chuck Ten Brink

-- 
Bitnet:                 uclcjt1@uchimvs1
Internet:         cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
From: tecump@ucsb.edu (Dal Bello)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Reenactor
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:41:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu writes:

> Hello to a fellow re-enactor.

Bully for you!  I too wear the blue.
I wonder how many on the group are reenaactors?


-Dom Dal Bello
 Capt., com'd'g Fed. Inf'y Bttln.
 Ft. Tejon Hist. Assoc., 
 Ft. Tejon, California
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa