HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:00:43 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug25.161245.8158@cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>
>Then perhaps you're just too goddamned stupid to see that there's no practical
>way to provide police and fire department services for one segment of a
>population without providing them for most or all of the population.  In the
>event of a private fire department, how does that department fight a fire
>in a building that they've been hired to protect without also providing a
>similar service for nearby buildings that they HAVEN'T been hired to protect?
>How does a police department provide protection against burglary for just
>selected residences?  In the part of health care that has similar properties
>(i.e., immunization programs), the U.S. government is already an active
>participant.  Next time, why don't you put your brain in gear before engaging
>fingers?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you!  The spread of AIDS could have very likey been lessed
if there had been more government involvement in all aspects of that
disease be it: education, treatment, prevention, and development of
a vaccine.  AIDS is far less prevelent in UK than in the US.  There
was a big campaign put out by the government here early on to educate
people.  The US Government dragged it's legs and now it' much harder
to control, because the disease if far more wide spread--DUMMY!
Xref: sparky alt.california:1664 rec.travel:12307
From: guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
Subject: Re: california info wanted II
Date: 25 Aug 92 15:32:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: nb.1992Aug25.153203.29843
Organization: Rockwell International


In article <1992Aug24.161836.1715@alcbase.gun.de>, erik@alcbase.gun.de (Erik Forker) writes:
> 
> Hey you in California!
> 
> As we wrote in a letter some days ago we will travel to CA next week.
> 
> But first of all we wanna thank all the people who had taken time to
> collect information about a trip through CA I asked about. We received
> so many mails, that it's impossible to thank every single one of you!
> So, thanks a lot!
> 
> But now: Every day we can hear about the great forest fires in the 
> Sierra Nevada. But two infos we miss: Where exactly are these 
> fires and what do we have to pay attention to when we travel 
> through the Sierra Nevada? Is it a problem to visit Yosemite NP?
> 
> -- 
>   Erik Forker	      	   erik@alcbase.gun.de  
>   voice: +49-211-254259    fax: +49-211-254260
>   Duesseldorf              Germany 	  
California is HUGE and thousands of acres a mere scratch.  The best way
to find out the effect on Yosemite is to call them.  I know that you
live in Germany but it shouldn't be too expensive and it will put your 
fears to rest.  Basically I wouldn't worry about it.  If Yosemite was
the part on fire it would be a lot bigger news story than it is.

Welcome to California!

Karen
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: kreidler@convex.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de (Homer Simpson)
Subject: trip to California September 1992
Organization: Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:18:09 GMT

Hello folks, 
we will enjoy a last minute fly  & drive ticket to San Fransisco 
from september to october. Is there anyone who might  supply us with info
reg. lodging, food, pubs and events? Tips for sightseeing are welcome either
Special notes: we are 2 students (low budget) mileage is unlimited within 
the USA total time is 31 days special sports: golf

thanx a lot
Tibro
Xref: sparky alt.california:1689 bit.listserv.travel-l:2272 rec.travel:12770
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: alt.california,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.travel
Subject: Re: california (without drivers license)
Date: 2 Sep 1992 07:23:42 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

<U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
>have heard some nice things about the train that runs down the coast
>from San Francisco through LA to San Diego.  It would be worthwhile to

The "Coast Starlight" runs from Seattle to LA.  I'm not sure what
happens after that but something goes on to SD.   The Coast Starlight
is a great trip, goes thru some non-hiway-accessible country on the stretch
N of Santa Barbara, & is very comfortable.  A little on the slow
side, the hiway may be faster.  I can't help with packages or rates,
it's been a couple years since I did this trip & it would be best
to consult AMTRAK.  Incidentally, a consideration, AMTRAK seems to
choose the absolute worst neiborhoods to site its stations.  In
the Bay Area the Richmond station connects directly to BART.

I'm not sure how you get to an uncrowded beach in the San Diego
area without joining the Marines (& w/o a car).

If you're looking for uncrowded & relaxed, remember there's a 
lot of CA north of San Francisco, where the pace of life is slower,
there are fewer cars & people, & the scenery is great.  There are
spectacular north coast beaches (as well as Oregon beaches) tho
access to them w/o a car is difficult.
From: Ariel.A.Vitali@dartmouth.edu (Ariel A. Vitali)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: The CA budget impasse: I don't get it!
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:54:41 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hello, friends!
I just don't get it.  It's been more than 2 months and the Government
of the Golden State still doesn't have a budget.  Pardon my Lithuanian,
but what the FUCK do they talk about in these meetings and "special
sessions"?!?  Golfing in Pebble Beach as opposed to the La Mirada
Driving Range?!?  Those who are registered to vote in California should
considering voting these idiot legislators (esp. Willie Brown) out and
start a drive to recall Gov. Wilson.
Also, is it me, or is Pinhead Pete beginning to look more like George
Bush?
And one more thing, how much are y'all at the UC's and Cal States
paying for "fees" now (Remember, Californians don't pay tuition,
right?) and which campuses are not letting any more students in?

Ariel Vitali
Orange County Refugee
UC Riverside, '90
Dartmouth Medical School, '94

internet: ariel.a.vitali@dartmouth.edu

no time, so no .sig (this time.)
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman)
Subject: Re: California Exodus
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 18:27:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

marka@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM (Mark Ashley) writes:

>From a local paper:

>"Sacramento, CA - More Americans are leaving California than
>arriving for the first time in nearly 20 years, according to figures
>released this week by the state Finance Department."


>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Ashley - Displaced Californian|DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed
>marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com      |here are my own; they do not
>..!uunet!gcx1!marka               |reflect the opinion or policies
>                                   |of Harris Corporation.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*****
God Bless America!!!
-- 
Gary Stollman    Internet: garys@netcom.com     GEnie: G.STOLLMAN
-----------------------------------------------------------------
          The world is your playground.  Keep it clean! 
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.california
From: romeo@glockenspiel.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mr. Bill)
Subject: Public transit in LA
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:30:30 GMT
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 3 Sep 1992 21:50:36 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
mike>So what?  You claimed that these services couldn't be provided selectively,
mike>e& I provided some common examples where they are provided that way.

>Common examples?  How common?  What I said was that these services couldn't, in

Oh come on, there are thousands upon thousands of local municipalities,
& volunteer fire departments.  Aren't you aware of this?  Read 1st,
post later.

>other, the isolation of rural buildings makes individual subscription
>possible).

Nah, "rural" doesn't mean "low density", except over a large area;
some of these VFD's cover small towns or villages (I'm not sure about
the upper limit).  They come into existence when there's a need for
fire protection but not enuf population or tax base [or  perhaps
willingness to give support] for a professional fire fiting staff.

You don't like specific examples & write them off as "special cases"?
That's too bad -- how can anyone argue with a technique like that?
Perhaps your hypothesis is only true in the "special case" where a
large collection of people or buildings are jammed together, & heaps
of tax money are lying about to hire these services with.
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:04:39 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug25.155303.7749@cco.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:

>
>You seem to be neglecting the choice forced upon doctors by our screwed-up
>malpractice system:  Suppose there's an operation that's probably not
>necessary, but there's a small chance it IS necessary.  If the doctor fails to
>perform the operation and it turns out in retrospect that it WAS necessary, he
>faces a huge malpractice suit.  If he does perform the operation, there are no
>complications resulting from the surgery, and it later turns out that it was
>not necessary, he is unlikely to face a malpractice suit.  Now, given the
>ludicrous awards for malpractice suits in this country, which choice would you
>expect a physician to make?  Don't be so quick to ascribe to greed what may
>simply be due to self-defense.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The main reason Malpractice is so big in the US is that it's the only
way to control doctors.  Most people think that doctors are a bunch
of greedy buggers, so they'd just as soon sue them for all they can.  In
a system where doctors show more concern for their patients well-being
and less concern for their own pocketbooks, people tend to be less likely to
sue when a doctor screws up.
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: california info wanted II
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:49:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.161836.1715@alcbase.gun.de> erik@alcbase.gun.de
(Erik Forker) writes:
>But now: Every day we can hear about the great forest fires in the 
>Sierra Nevada. But two infos we miss: Where exactly are these 
>fires and what do we have to pay attention to when we travel 
>through the Sierra Nevada? Is it a problem to visit Yosemite NP?

Fires are currently burning every where in the State of CA.
Something like 8 major fires are burning to make the news from the Mt. Shasta
region in the far North part of the State to the mountains above LA.
Many of these will probably be out when you get here but other fires
will take their place.  What we call the "fuel loading" is extremely
high right now.  Something over 1000 fires are burning in CA at this
instance (most for instance just smoldering logs from thunderstorm
lightning strikes these will go out on their own).  This is not too atypical.
Big state.
This is the fire season and it will remain so until at least Nov. 1
in a typical year (6 years of drought so far).

We can't say whether you will have problems in Yosemite until you get here
(I know of six small fires in Yosemite from Ranger friends).  Yosemite
has had various roads closed at times for the past 3 years including
a rude closure just as I was returning from the other side myself.
You will in fact pass thru some of these earlier fire areas as we now
begin to realize the intergral part which fire plays in these forested areas.
You can always check road conditions with the California Highway Patrol/
Caltrans, Yosemite Park itself, and other services.

But whatever you do, use extreme care with fire.  As several of our major
fires were started by people we refer to as "Easterners" who let their
BBQ camp fires get away from them or they felt they had to start a signal
fire or other reason.  And if you survive your flame war:
we will bill you for it.

Trying to enumerate, I can remember these six:
	Burney (Mt. Shasta)
	Calivaras (two)
	Big Sur
	Los Padres (Santa Barbara)
	Tijunga (LA)
In various states of control and containment (or not).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: alt.california,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.travel
From: stann@hpcvxko.cv.hp.com (Kristann Orton)
Subject: Re: california (without drivers license)
Reply-To: stann@hpcvxko.cv.hp.com (Kristann Orton)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:29:42 GMT

Amtrack all along the west coast is gorgeous, especially between SF and
Santa Barbara.  You can sit in the bar car, which has windows from the floor
that curve around to over your head, and watch the scenery go by.
IMHO, it would be more fun to stop in SB than in LA... the train station
is right downtown in SB, and September and October are the best
months of the year.
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: California info wanted!!!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:56:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.065755.8401@spectrum.CMC.COM> lars@spectrum.CMC.COM
(Lars Poulsen) writes:
>Yes, California IS different, and better. As for Santa Barbara, I wish
>you would stop talking about it. Too many people here already.
>BASICALLY, SANTA BARBARA IS TOO EXPENSIVE AND TOO ARTIFICIAL. NO JOBS
>HERE TO SPEAK OF EITHER. Immigrants, look for housing and jobs in Oxnard
>and San Luis Obispo. (:-) :-)).

Better?  Naw, I would not say that.  Different, yes.

Ah Oxnard!  As was said by a friend who grew up there:
The Arm Pit of the South Coast [don't blame me, blame Diane].
Yes, yes, very artificial.  No jobs either.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: alt.california,rec.travel
From: rcarter@gaudi.nas.nasa.gov (Russell L. Carter)
Subject: Re: California info wanted!!!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 23:52:43 GMT

In article <holly.181@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com> holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.165656.10394@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>
>Face it.  No jobs anywhere here in California.  Nice place to live (if you 
>have a job).

and if you drive to live, and live to drive, and love it.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Russell
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Pepperdine University
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:59:48 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Aug24.114406.517@pro-palmtree.socal.com>
markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz) writes:
>what we need here is a internet directory!

No, we don't.
That is the function of other news groups like soc.net-people and
commands like whois, finger, 411, ph, and so forth which are noted in the
s.n-p FAQ.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Xref: sparky alt.california:1679 bit.listserv.travel-l:2237 rec.travel:12565
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:31:55 EDT
From: <U4400@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.california,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.travel
Subject: Re: california (without drivers license)

In article <1992Aug28.151446.15798@fokus.gmd.de>, mhs@fokus.gmd.de (M.Schmeil)
says:
>me and my girlfriend plan to travel somewhere in the south
>for 3 weeks (in mid-october). california is one of the
>possible targets, but the problem is that we both have no
>drivers license. another problem is that i want to see as
>much as possible and my GF wants to relax as much as possible.
>this means we could do only a few stops (and travel not to
>often).
>
>i think of SF -> LA -> SD with some bonus stops in yosemite,
>etc., an empty beach (originally we wanted to fly to cuba or
>somewhere else in the caribean sea) near san diego (maybe
>mexico) should be included. city-trips should be short.
>
>is it a non-relaxing tour? comments to greyhound-traveling
>(someone told me that the central station in LA is dangerous
>for life, health and money)? alternatives to greyhound?
>sightseeings?
.
I have never tried it, so I can't say whether it is good or bad, but I
have heard some nice things about the train that runs down the coast
from San Francisco through LA to San Diego.  It would be worthwhile to
call Amtrak and find out about the trip and how much it costs.  I think
you can buy packages where they let you make a number of stops along the
way.  Maybe someone else on the net can help that has been on this
particular Amtrack route?
(By the way, Amtrak in general, IMHO, is much nicer than travelling on
any sort of bus.  The seats are bigger, the ride is smoother, and the
people are friendlier.  I have ridden it quite often on the east coast.)
Eric
Newsgroups: alt.california,bit.listserv.travel-l,rec.travel
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: california (without drivers license)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:06:58 GMT

mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) wrote: 
->...  Incidentally, a consideration, AMTRAK seems to
->choose the absolute worst neiborhoods to site its stations.  In
->the Bay Area the Richmond station connects directly to BART.

umm, the rail stations were there longer than those "worst"
neighborhoods were ...

->If you're looking for uncrowded & relaxed, remember there's a 
->lot of CA north of San Francisco, where the pace of life is slower,
->there are fewer cars & people, & the scenery is great.  There are
->spectacular north coast beaches (as well as Oregon beaches) tho
->access to them w/o a car is difficult.

and for good reason: they don't want boatloads of tourists up there
looking for quiet beaches.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: california (without drivers license)
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:57:57 GMT

Amtrack's Coast daylight/starlight ends in Los Angeles, where you can 
change trains and catch Amtracks San Diegn (runs frequenly about every 
hour and 1/2 (just don't quote me on that).
also some San Diegn trains start their trip in Santa Barbara so you could
also catch the San Diegn trains there as well,but I would change in Los
Angeles to pay it safer.
you can always call Amtrack at 1-800-USA RAIL
for more information 
also you can check with your local travel agent  since they can also write
tickets on Amtrack as well.
Xref: sparky alt.california:1692 bit.listserv.travel-l:2274 rec.travel:12790
From: rcarter@gaudi.nas.nasa.gov (Russell L. Carter)
Subject: Re: Don't Move to Tucson
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 18:58:41 GMT
Distribution: usa

You forgot to mention the heat!  Or as I say, Tuscon is beautiful,
burning hell desert.  You could have added that Californians might not
like six months of 100-115 degree days.  And living in air
conditioning all that time.  They don't have Circle Ks every
500 yards for nothing, ya know.  And Californians might not
like the traffic jams going up Mt. Lemmon in the summer... or
maybe they would!

ooohh, and the dust storms!  You could describe what an outdoor
arts fair is like when the dust rolls in.  I sure can.

Hope this helps,
Russell
From: marka@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM (Mark Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: California Exodus
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:58:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Harris Computers Systems Division, Fort Lauderdale,FL

From a local paper:

"Sacramento, CA - More Americans are leaving California than
arriving for the first time in nearly 20 years, according to figures
released this week by the state Finance Department."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Ashley - Displaced Californian|DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed
marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com      |here are my own; they do not
..!uunet!gcx1!marka               |reflect the opinion or policies
                                   |of Harris Corporation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: v125qmam@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ami R Pflugrad)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Pepperdine University
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:18:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Anyone know the internet address for pepperdine university.  I have a friend
who will be attending in the fall (Next week) and would like to keep
in touch with her.


Thanks!!
 Ami
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Paradise lost and Medi-Cal...
Date: 2 Sep 1992 06:56:27 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>Then perhaps you're just too goddamned stupid to see that there's no practical
>way to provide police and fire department services for one segment of a
>population without providing them for most or all of the population.  In the

Gee, it's pretty obvious to me how this is done.  Many institutions
have "private" police forces & many localities don't cooperate across
jurisdictional boundaries.  Then there's the phenomenon of the rural
fire district cooperative.  If you don't subscribe, & your place
catches fire, it burns to the ground.  This may seem stupid, &
maybe it is not common here in CA, but it exists elsewhere.
From: pld@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Paul Dineen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 19:28:49 GMT
Subject: Re: LOSERS!!!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.california

In alt.california, garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes:

> Keywords: ASSHOLES, FAGGOTS, AND SLUTS...

> THE DODGERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> [...]
> AND CALIFORNIA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> THE YANKEES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> [...]

  Drivel.  Go away.
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: thanx for cali-info / more questions
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:59:33 GMT

Amtrack has stops in Salins, San Luis opsibo, Santa barabra, Ventura (or
will soon, Simi Valley, Glendale, and Los Angeles.