HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:44:52 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

saj31052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Scotty A Johnson) writes:

>>  When you get right down to it, piracy violates copyright law, end of 
>>subject.  

>Do you think that there is anyone reading this who does not already
>know this?

  Aware of it, probably.  Truely understand it, doubtful.

>>Anything that tries to validate breaking the law is a pathetic
>>attempt at rationalization.

>Tell that to the Jews in Germany in 1939.

  Another fine example of pirate-logic, eh?  

  -jack-
  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: "grant robinson" <grant.robinson@canrem.com>
Subject: amiga int. drive
Reply-To: "grant robinson" <grant.robinson@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:15:10 EST

-> The part number is A2015 or A3015. It is a proprietary drive made by
-> Chinon (Part No FB-357A). The only way you are going to get another
-> drive to work at HD is to buy a bridgeboard, and a multi-function
-> card.
->
-> What is lacking is the ability of the custom chips to handle
-> high-speed access. Specificly, Paula. The theoretical upgrade to the
-> ECS chipset mentioned in WOC may address this lack, but I wouldn't
-> put any money on it.

It would also appear that a dischange sensor is also missing.  Of course
the new HD floppy will cost the equivelant of a small east european
automobile :>  However as I'll be at the WOC in Toronto in December, a
good deal will fall my way.

Cheers!
Grant
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Date: 22 Nov 92 07:44:06 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

saj31052@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Scotty A Johnson) writes:

>You are ignoring the possibility of a legitimate copy finding its way
>into the state.  If crackers do indeed reside here, it is unlikely
>that they would choose to work with a version of the program which
>is already hacked up.  It would be very easy to just go to a place
>which DOES have a regularly distributed copy, and buy one.

  I'm not ignoring anything, because it's not a possibility.  It can't be
a legitimate copy if it is barred from export to that particular country.
The two conditions are mutually exclusive, do you understand that?

>No, Jack, I was refering to the names you called me, and others
>who have differing views than you do.  When most of us are trying
>to have an interesting discussion (perhaps a debate), there are
>people like you and Saul calling some of us "Twits" and "Assholes"
>(respectively).

  Please, spare me the sensitivity, ok?  When you walk into a newsgroup
and proclaim yourself a software pirate (another term I find revolting),
you've got to be prepared to get your butt scorched in the process.

  One other piece of advice, the only "Rules of Engagement" around here is
shoot first, don't look back, and for God's Sake, don't take any of it too
seriously.

>Well I must admit that I have not looked at these studies, not do I
>know what the Hell you are talking about, since punishment against
>crimes is in general an excellent deterent; if not, then why have laws?
>By your argument, crime rates would not change one way or the other.

  I'm not making the argument, I'm citing the example.  I've got no reason to
lie to you either, you can take the info and do what you want with it, it 
doesn't make a damned bit of difference to me either way.

>Humans rationalize.  It's one of the great and few things that seperates
>us from the monkeys (no flames towards monkeys inteded).  You see this
>behavior as inexcusable, while I believe that others who do not pirate
>software have learned something about those who do.

  There's a world of difference between the textbook definition of the process
of rationalizing and the perjoritive form that people use to justify their
behaviour such as yourself.

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: eachus@Dr_No.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus)
Subject: Re: How do you get it to run? (was: Re: populous ii)
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
	<r_w1n0c@rpi.edu>
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:16:46 GMT


     Two points:  First the keyclicks going to the workbench is not
specific to the A3000, it happens on my 1000's as well.

     Second, the simple solution is to clear the workbench before
playing, the easiest way is probably to open a CLI window to full
size, run some application which keeps the window open, and then type
endcli.  What I actually do is, since I use morerows, just move all
icons out of the 640x400 area. :-)

--

					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
From: smcgerty@unix1.tcd.ie (Stephen John McGerty)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: A1200 - No H.D drive, no 68030?
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:48:51 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <BxszLL.946@newcastle.ac.uk> unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (I.A. Inman) writes:


>The A1200 is a very nice machine - it might just yet stop me going PC.
>Three complaints though.

>1) 68020 processor - the Atari Falcon has a 68030.

Not a major problem. The 68030 isn't really that much faster
than the 68020 at executing code. It just has lots of bells
and whistles that the Amiga OS doesn't use anyway. So overall,
why not use the cheeper chip? Anyway, I'm sure the slot-expansion
thingy will allow faster processors etc..

>2) An 880K floppy drive? Why not HD? It won't cost that much!

I agree. As a friend of mine pointed out, the Amiga may end up
in the same dilema that the Atari ST was in, when some of the
machines had single sided drived, and some had double sided ones.
This really pisses off software houses! And understandably too..

I reckon it might be too late to start installing HD drives, but
I'd still like to see it done.

>3) No sound chip upgrade? It's sad to say the Atari now craps on us in that
>   department.

Hmm. People seem to be implying that this is on the way. Something
about better sound + high density disk support with the next
chip set upgrade. 


>Commodore have released the A1200 at the 400 pound price mark (U.K.).   They
>should release a version with a hard drive (and preferably, a HD disk drive) for
>about 150 - 200 pounds more.

I should hope that a 40Meg Hard drive would only hike the price by
120 sterling...

>It is safe to say the A600 is the new C64 (strange when you can still buy a C64),
>with the A1200 being the early ninties A500.   We may beat off the PC`s yet!

Really? I hope so! But with 486s for well under a grand, it'll
be a house to house battle...

Stephen.


......................................................................... 
: / T | /  Stephen John McGerty (C.Sci)  "Theory must never   Amiga  // :
: / | |/   smcgerty@unix1.tcd.ie          precede creation"       \\//  :
:.......................................................................:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: mwelie@cs.vu.nl (Welie van M)
Subject: Textscanning
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:19:44 GMT

Hi,

I want to buy a handyscanner to scan text and make a 
textfile out of it. But sofar I haven't found a scanner
that has the text-recognition software I'll probably need.
I think this is called OCR-software.

Does anybody know such software exists for the Amiga ??

Any help will help.

Thanks
	Martijn van Welie (mwelie@cs.vu.nl)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: lee@ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink)
Subject: Re: Vhat?  No flickerfixer in A4k?  Vhat ees thees?
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
In-reply-to: barrett@iastate.edu's message of Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:13:15 GMT
Organization: Northeast Parallel Architectures Center - Syracuse, NY
	<1992Nov17.140137.17057@ra.msstate.edu> <BxvsE6.Iz@news.iastate.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:22:22 EST

>>>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:13:15 GMT, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) said:

Marc>    My perceptions of the A3000 come from extensive personal experience. 
Marc> It is just the A4000 that I have not used, and have no real desire to
Marc> use.  The A4000 is the first Amiga that I have no desire whatsoever to
Marc> own.  If somebody gave me one, I'd sell it for the down-payment on a car.


That's nice.  You've ranted and raved about the 2000 when it came out, the
3000 when it came out, and now the 4000.  Take your anti-amiga drivel to
where it belongs: .advocacy.

Note the Follow-up to line.

    Lee

--
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Lee C Brink	             Office Support Co-ordinator at NPAC	   |
| lee@nova.npac.syr.edu      Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100  |
|			     315-443-1722				   |
| "Stimpy, move your butt.  It's a higher mammal" - The Ren & Stimpy show  |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:16956 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29282
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: Programming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:04:50 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <BxsLqu.5os@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer) wrote:
> To say that AMOS teaches bad programming manners really isn't the truth at all.

Every AMOS program I've ever seen is badly behaved. My conclusion is
that AMOS encourages people to write badly behaved, or make it
impossible to write well-behaved programs. In either case, it sure
looks like it's teaching bad programming manners to me.

	<mike
From: unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (I.A. Inman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: A1200 - No H.D drive, no 68030?
Keywords: Commodore F**k up again!
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:54:16 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU
Originator: n08dp@tuda


In article <By0LIp.6ED@newcastle.ac.uk>, A.C.Crook@newcastle.ac.uk (A.C. Crook) writes:
> 
> >>2) An 880K floppy drive? Why not HD? It won't cost that much!
> >
> >I agree. As a friend of mine pointed out, the Amiga may end up
> >in the same dilema that the Atari ST was in, when some of the
> >machines had single sided drived, and some had double sided ones.
> >This really pisses off software houses! And understandably too..
> >
> >I reckon it might be too late to start installing HD drives, but
> >I'd still like to see it done.
> >
> 
> According to Amiga Format in the UK, it was a simple choice between 2 megs
> of chip ram installed as standard or a HD drive. They consulted the s/w houses
> as to which they preferred and they all said the 2 megs of ram. The reason
> for this was to keep the price below 400 pounds. A good compromise I suppose, 
> even though I would have loved to see a HD drive (and would have been prepared
> to pay for it).
> External HD drives are being advertised as appearing soon. So if you're that
> worried about having one... but that's off the point.
> 
> Adey Crook. Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne. 

I read Amiga Format too, and I read the article.   Perhaps I forgot to mention in
my first article, that (in the PC market anyway) the difference in price between
a DD and an HD drive was only a few quid.

Sorry, but Commodore's argument doesn't wash.   I rekon in the short to medium
term, A1200's will appear with HD drives, probably March at the earliest.

					The beef sandwich.
From: st1gs@rosie.uh.edu (Spice, Darrell G.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Virtual Reality Game
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:17:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: rosie.15NOV199220172608
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Here in Houston we have one of those virtual reality games, the one called
Pterordactal(sp).  Its really neat, I've played it a few times.

It is done on Amiga's (there is an Amiga keyboard out for controlling the
game).

Darrell
ST1GS@Rosie.Uh.Edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Swatschek)
Subject: Re: I found a pirate - what shall I do?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:06:07 GMT

> mwelie@cs.vu.nl (Welie van M) writes:
> I don't see what piracy has to do with ignorance and as for stupidity : Why
> would you spend $1000 if you can get the same program for $2 ? Sounds
> stupid to me !!


   Why get a job, if you can just take what you want? Or, should you ever
work, have your employer send the paycheques to me. You will not have been
deprived of anything physical (and you've got gobs of money from other jobs,
right?).

What Mike Haas wrote bears repeating: Scum.


--

               Edjs                    _
              ------                _ //  CI$  : 76427,662
   Edward_Swatschek@mindlink.bc.ca  \X/   GEnie: E.SWATSCHEK


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: adamkp@rs6104.ecs.rpi.edu (Peter Adamkovics)
Subject: Where can I find showanim, or something like it, and a mod player?
Reply-To: adamkp@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:47:48 GMT

I accidently deleted showanim, now I cant see any of my cartoons, I mean eric
shwartz's cartoons, so I looked on the merlin ftp site, and sure enough they 
had cartoons, but no players.   they also had a ton of mods, but once again no players, so what am i supposed to do?   anyone know where i can find some of these things?   
thanks....

*******************************************************************************
*      Peter Adamkovics          *   O   *BeastieBoysNINRushMetallicaF242PWEI *
********************************** O   O *NirvanaTheToastersMinistryPearlJam  *
*E-mail address:  adamkp@rpi.edu *O     O*MightyMightyBosstonesSkinnyPuppyRHCP*
*Phone:(518) 274-9436            * O   O *Jane'sAddictionRiseRobotRise808State*
*Amiga: The only computer !!     *   O   *NedsAtomicDustbinScatterbrainEMF    *
*Guitar: Gibson SG (cant afford a*  O O  *TheStoneRosesCypressHillTinderBox   * 
*        Les Paul or Marshalls)  *O     O*So many groups, so little time..... * 
*******************************************************************************
From: e52382015@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (EDDY, JONATHAN GABRIEL)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: * Colors to reduce interlace flicker *
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov16.140709.2434@merrimack.edu>, nin15b48@merrimack.edu writes...
> 
>Hello,
> 
>I'm trying to run my word processor in interlace mode on my non-flicker-fixed
>A500.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a 4-color palette that will
>minimize flicker?  (Black, black, black, and black works pretty well,
>but it doesn't do much for legibility! :]  )
>Thanks.
> 
>== Steve
>   nin15b48@merrimack.edu



Hi, I'm using a solid brown background for workbench, with white window borders,
and gray(black every other pixel) window interiors, and red for the highlighted
window.  Works fairly well, not as good as all black, but hey, nothing's 
perfect(except maybe Cindy Crawford) 8) 8) 8)

beast.
From: news@irisa.fr
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: DKB Trace
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:35:58 GMT
Reply-To: tremois@irisa.fr
Organization: IRISA, Rennes (Fr)


I'm looking for the latest version of DKB Trace (with Phong rendering).
I know it's on Fish disks but I don't know where exactly.
Can anyone help me?

Thanks.

	Olivier.


                                ,,,
                               (o o)
---------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo--------------------------------------
          Olivier  TREMOIS    -     Automatique et Signal
EMail: tremois@irisa.fr  -  Phone: (33) 99.84.71.00
PMail: IRISA - Campus de Beaulieu - 35042 Rennes CEDEX    - FRANCE
------------------------------------------------------------------

L'homme est plein d'imperfections, mais on ne peut que se montrer indulgent si l'on songe a l'epoque ou il a ete cree.

Alphonse Allais.

-------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: kaarts@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Kenneth John Aarts)
Subject: csh 5.19 and CshResident
Originator: kaarts@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:12:48 GMT


What does the environment variable CshResident do?  Csh 5.19 tries to open it
every time it is started.  An egrep of csh: revealed nothing.

Ken
From: rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:11:54 EST
Reply-To: rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy)
Organization: Lakes Public Access

jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:

> >Tell that to the Jews in Germany in 1939.
> 
>   Another fine example of pirate-logic, eh?  
> 
>   -jack-
>   

Oh, come, now, Jack.  Aren't we being a little fanatical not to even 
concede the guys point?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Commodore Mail List
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:03:51 GMT


	Okay, after Black Tuesday we had to delete a LARGE number of outgoing 
messages, which should come as no surprise. :)

	Did anyone receive a mail-list survey? If not I will have to mail
them out again, as it is very important that I receive responses from it.


	Thanks.

	Again, to post to the list, send mail to commodore@xamiga.linet.org.
	Please let me know if you have subscribed and are not receiving 
mail so that I can fix it.


-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."
From: disk@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Diskraker)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Lemmings II Demo <Where?>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:02:33 EST
Reply-To: disk@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Diskraker)
Organization: Lakes Public Access

eeb@pro-freedom.cts.com (Ed Brown) writes:

> > I personally won't touch anymore psygnosis stuff until they implement HD
> > support for the Amiga.
> 
> Exactly so.  If it isn't HD installable, I'm not buying it either.

Oh, well, I guess you'll just miss out on a great game if it comes like 
that just because you're both asses...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: hgm@ncsu.edu (Hal G. Meeks)
Subject: Re: Betting on an A1800
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:11:14 GMT

unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (I.A. Inman) writes:


>Just guesswork this, but Commodore seem to have left room for a machine between
>the A1200, and the forthcoming A1500/2000 replacement.

Yep. A big gap. 

>My guess is that at some point, probably next year, a new low cost machine
>(probably called the A1800) will appear at around the 500-700 pound price mark.

No. It's called the 4000/30, and should be available very soon. In terms of
US costs, it should weigh in at around $2200.00. As the name implies, it's a
4000 with a 68030. Saves on tooling costs, since the AGA is an interim
technology, and a new line of machines should show up in a couple of years.

They will keep making the 2000 and 600 as long as they can sell them. The
600 is the C64 of the 90's, and the 2000 is needed for those "Toaster
People" (until NewTek comes out with a new toaster that doesn't need an
Amiga). The 3000 is dead (check out Creative Computer's ad in AmigaWorld).

This is all a combination of rumor, speculation and the barest threads of
fact. 

--hal

--
hgm@ncsu.edu           "Office Buildings are our Pyramids." 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: thom@cs.mun.ca (Thomas Clancy)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:38:14 GMT

jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan) writes:

>thom@cs.mun.ca (Thomas Clancy) writes:

>>Again, MORALS and LAWS vary greatly, I believe in Spain or somewhere there
>>abouts, there is no such thing as copywritten software, it's a free for all,
>>and it is acceptable to do such things. Again, I said I do *NOT* condone
>>piracy, I can mearly see both sides of the story. And yes, I am quite
>>capable of making up my own mind [some consider me stubborn or pig-headed
>>8-)  ]

>  Well, thanks for confirming your position on piracy since your previous 
>post did seem to cast you as a fence-sitter...

>  Also, while there are still places that don't recognize Copyright Law, it's
>not really pertinent to the issue of piracy in places that do, is it?  Besides,

Of course it is pertinent, it is used as an example on just how diversified
some peoples "Laws" and "morals" are. Besides, this group reachs many 
corners [on an oval/round shaped] earth 8-)

>  I'm still a bit puzzled however, what "side" is there to piracy to "see"?
>Outside of evaluating a program before purchasing it, which is the only ethical
>reason I can see for using something that you don't own, I can't think of 
>anything that allows one to use a pirated copy of software without violating
>the law in the process.

This is the point (side) I am speaking of, I believe in "Try" before you
"buy" I would never have bought Populous, Power Monger, Shadow Of Beast II
etc; unless I tried them first. I had passed by Populous on the shelf
many times, one day I had the opportunity to try out a friends 
[pirated] copy and low-and-behold... I loved it and bought it, I also
have all subsequent [original] data disks and associated programs.
Admittedly, this point seems to becoming less and less valid for anyone
with FTP access, since most new games are released as playable demos 
ie: Walker etc;  [which seems to be an amazing game, but unless it is 
HD installable I shan't buy it].

Thomas


>  -jack-
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Let's move this thread to EFF's newsgroup already was RE: Piracy
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:45:29 GMT
Organization: Murdoch University

jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>Software "piracy" is no more of a clearly defined crime than network
>break-in's.  There aren't easy explanations for the technology itself
>(ever try explaining *what* software is to someone who is unfamiliar
>with it?) and this further contributes to the difficulty of defining

Yeah well I realise the Lawyers may not have got around to publishing
volumous tomes on Theft of intellectual property, copyright laws and
magnetic media,  but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if you 
have a copy of a piece of commercial software, and you havn't baught
the orignal, than somethings up.  Know what I mean?

>the "proper" use of them.  Why don't we move this very complicated
>topic to eff's newsgroup for anyone who is interested in what
>philosophical arguments have been forwarded as well as any further
>discussion.

It doesn't seem that complicated to me, but then again, maybe I'm just
plain nuts, 'cos it don't register as a philosophical argument in my mind.

>-- 
>jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
>James Miller

Torban Bennett       torban@murdoch.edu.au
Murdoch University,  For once, I don't think they'll mind what I just said ;-)
Western Australia.
From: jaxh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Jon Hanson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Amiga TeX
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:56:21 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

Does anyone know whether TeX is available for the Amiga (I think I heard it was), and
if so is it PD/shareware/or commercial (how much)? Also what hardware does it require
?
Cheers, Jon.

    |.---..---.  |---..---..---..---..---..---. .-------------------.
    ||   ||   |  |   |.---||   |`---.|   ||   | | jaxh@dcs.ed.ac.uk |
 `--'`---'`   '  `   '`---^`   '`---'`---'`   ' `-------------------'
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:17065 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29420