HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Saint-Saens question
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:03:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Sorry if this message came across already, but...

does anyone know why Saint-Saens forbid performance of "Carnival Of The
Animals" until after his death?

-Ed
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Re: Zimerman/Bernstein - Beethoven Piano Concertos - review
Organization: Visual
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 12:46:52 GMT

Raymond Tuttle writes:

>Zimerman completed the set, conducting from the keyboard, and
>[provided] a loving tribute to the man he had collaborated with on many
>previous occasions

In looking at the set on the store shelves, I can't find where Zimerman's
"tribute" track is identified.  Is it a recorded item, or an essay in
the booklet enclosure?

Rob


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: French Baroque Chamber Music
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:43:44 GMT


In article <1993Jan4.175700.6742@midway.uchicago.edu>, pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus) writes:
|> Since Tower Records storewide sale, is just a week or so
|> away, it's time to make up my shopping list and I'd like
|> to solicit your help.  I'm looking to expand my collection
|> of French (and perhaps Italian) baroque chamber music.
|> I've got some Rameau, Marais, Forqueray, and Leclair.
|> For the Italians, I only have the standard Corelli.
|> Who should I be seeking out?
|> 
For some more Italian, Vivaldi!!! A good performance of "The Seasons" is
absolutely mandatory :-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: markf@sco.COM (mark forry)
Subject: Re: Conductors, interpretations and fluffy nonsense 
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:29:33 GMT


In article <1993Jan9.005318.15578@hubcap.clemson.edu> epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu (A replicant) writes:
>
>   1)  Name the recording you think best exemplifies
>       how an interpretation of a work can really make
>       a good and noticeable difference.

Check out the differences between Toscanini's and Boulez'
recordings of Debussy's La Mer.  Toscanini's feels more seamless, 
somehow more impressionistic, while in Boulez' each structural 
element stands out.  (Granted there was a difference in recording
technologies, but I believe their interpretations made the
difference, not audio fidelity.)  I prefer Toscanini's as a
holistic musical experience, although I respect Boulez' as a
brilliant piece of musical analysis.  I'm not sure which is
better, but there is a pretty noticeable difference.
-- 
Mark Forry                 A little girl, after hearing Beethoven's Ninth 
Technical Publications     Symphony for the first time, asked, 
The Santa Cruz Operation   "What do we do now?"
uunet!sco!markf              -- quoted by Richard Kehl, Further Departures
markf@sco.COM             
(408) 427-7509            Standard disclaimers apply.
From: sb@next.neuro.emory.edu (Stephen O. Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Good CD store in Atlanta GA area ?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 19:53:14 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
Reply-To: sb@next.neuro.emory.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: next.neuro.emory.edu



  Hi,

    Can anyone recommend a record store with a good selection of
  classical CDs in the metro Atlanta, GA area ?


  Steve Berger (sb@onripx.neuro.emory.edu)
From: korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Richard Korkosz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: New Richter recordings
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:03:56 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu

Greetings to fellow Richter fans.  I just found out about some new releases 
featuring the master in recitals given during 1986-1989, and had to share 
the news!  Here's the goods...



	LONDON 	436 456, 1CD: SCHUMANN- Nachtstucke Op.23, Blumenstucke 
                               Op.19, Toccata Op.7, March Op.76 #2, 
                               Four fugues Op.72

	LONDON  436 457, 1CD: BRAHMS- Piano Sonatas Nos. 1,2

 	LONDON  436 451, 2CD: Various 20th century works including 
                              PROKOFIEV Sonata Op.14, STRAVINSKY piano rag 
                              music, SHOSTAKOVICH P&F's #19,20, 
                              BARTOK 3 Burlesques, WEBERN Variations Op.27, 
                              HINDEMITH Suite (1922), and others...

These recordings are due for release in mid February, so be on the lookout.
Also be aware (NOT beware) of an EMI/ANGEL reissue of the SCHUMANN Fantasy, 
etc., with Richter, though I'm not sure when it's due out (knowing ANGEL, I 
hope it makes it to the stores before being deleted from the catalogue).  
ENJOY!!!

Rick Korkosz
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
korkosz@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu




Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Subject: Re: Q: Inbal's Mahler
Keywords: Mahler, Inbal
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 15:03:30 EST

My only complaint about Inbal is that he sings through the works (or I
should say he sings thru the 2nd, and I found that it ruined the whole
experience for me, even though I thought the performance was excellent in
all other respects). Has anyone else been bothered by this?
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Louis Couperin
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:00:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <mudws.726789866@sunvis1>, mudws@sunvis1.vislab.olemiss.edu
(David Warren Steel) wrote:
>   Only Louis Couperin wrote preludes with NO distinction in note-values;
> had he published his preludes, i would doubtless have offered the player
> *some* clues, as did all the other French composers of unmeasured preludes,
> e.g. Clerambault, La Guerre, Rameau.  

    I beg to differ - don't forget that the origin of the unmeasured
prelude
was from the french baroque lutenists - Gaultier, Mouton, et al. Their
unmeasured preludes are written in french lute tablature with no barlines
and little (if any) rhythmic indications. The intention was to create a
very
free and improvisatory feel. Two things to keep in mind are 1) the
extensive
influence of the lutenists on the clavecinistes (stile brise, etc.) and 
2) the tendency of the french baroque (especially earlier, i.e. 17th cent.)
to expect the musician to read into the notation - notes inegales, notes
pointees, etc. I tend to think that Louis Couperin would have published the
unmeasured preludes just as they are in the manuscript

>  .  .  .   I expect that Francois DID write
> unmeasured preludes.  Since he published them in a beginners' instruction
> book (L'Art de toucher) he expressed them in measured notation (Nos. 1, 2,
> 4, and 5).  The other four preludes in the set are marked mesure,
> indicating that they, unlike the four just mentioned, are to be played
> in rhythm.
> 
     Francois Couperin was unusual for his time in that he was *very* 
fussy about precise notation - viz. the famous comment in the introduction
to one of the late volumes of "L'Art de toucher" where he scolds players
for taking liberties with the indicated agrements, and demands that these
be played exactly as he has indicated them. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Brendel and Szeryng play Schoenberg and Berg
In-reply-to: atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu's message of Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:34:23 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:17:10 CST

Dale Atems writes:

   The other day I ran across a recording of the Schoenberg Piano and
   Violin Concerti and the Berg Violin Concerto. The soloists were Brendel
   and Szeryng ...

I think the violinist on the Schoenberg concerto is Zvi Zeitlin.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS)
Subject: Ravel
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:01:29 GMT

Christmas seems to have netted our house a bargain basement recording of Ravel
(2 CD's on the VoxBox label, the Minnesota Orchestra, under Svatislov Richter 
[I think]).  Anyways, the performance and recording is singularly unimpressive
(don't tell my aunt this).  I was wondering, is Ravel any good.  The only piece
that I am familiar with is his orchestration of Mussorgsky's "Pictures..;" I 
think it is chaotic and cacophonic and don't like it much (the solo piano I do
like, very much).  Yet, just because of this bad recording, I don't wish to put
Ravel permanently out of my collection.

So, if Ravel is played well, is it worth it?

Earlier,
Gerard.
_____________________________________________________________________
Gerard Torenvliet                 |
Engineering Computing Facility    |  Hofstadter's Law:
University of Toronto             |   It always takes longer than you
                                  |   think, even when you take into
torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu           |   account Hofstadter's Law.
(416)221-5949                     |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beginning a classical collection
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:40:43 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1993Jan2.183242.512@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> lungtt@gus.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) writes:
>In article <1i3287INN5g2@FUNCTOR.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU> loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore) writes:
>>Concerts don't have to be a costly experience, especially if you live
>>in a college town... <$5 admission...
>
>ok.  If you have this option, by all means, indulge!
>
>But if you're in a metropolitan area like DC, every other concert
>seems to run at least $20 a ticket.  Listening to the radio will
>be a more practical way to *sample* a variety of music.

Then let me put in a plug for various DC area choruses
(there are about as many inthe DC area as there are in the Bay
area):

Alexandria Choral Society (Alexandria, VA)
Cathedral Choral Society (DC)
Choral Arts Society of Washington (DC)
  [They have a concert coming up on Jan. 11, 8pm, Kennedy
  Center, with Howard University Choir and other local
  ensembles... a musical tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr.
  (202) 244-3669]
The Paul Hill Chorale (DC)
Lesbian/Gay Chorus of Washington (DC)
Masterworks Chorus and Orchestra (Bethesda, MD)
Musikanten (Bethesda, MD)
  [They're doing the music of local composer Russell Woollen
  on Jan. 10, 3pm St. Paul's Church in Alexandria; and a
  70th Birthday Celebration for Woollen on Jan. 17, 2pm
  at the Kennedy Center, Terrace Theater, DC.
  Phone: (301) 530-9596.  This group won an ASCAP award for
  adventuresome programming last year.]
The USAF Singing Seargents (DC)
  [Bet you can hear free concerts of this group.  In fact,
  if you want their recordings, that's the only way you can
  get them -- FREE -- because they are prohibited from
  selling them (because of special copyright treatment)]
The Woodley Ensemble (DC)

...and frankly, you can take a short ride up to Baltimore
and there's scads of stuff up there to hear.

You simply have to look outside the handful of most advertised
orchestras and name-brand soloists if you want good music for a
reasonable price.

Cheers,

--Mark
=====
dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: There's nothing wrong with Bolero
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:47:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0q5AI.2pu.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <3940066@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow) writes:
>dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes (re Bolero):
>

>> Snare-drummers have a dislike for the feeling in the wrists after 17
>> minutes.  That's if they haven't suffered muscle spasm and dropped the
>> sticks by then.
>
>Is Bolero ever performed with multiple snare drum players trading off,
>or is that considered undrummerly?  That would at least give the three 
>extra percussionists something to do.
>
It is my experience that two snare drummers are used but not in trading off.
The second drummer begins near the end, when things are getting really loud,
to double the first drummer.  No rest for the weary...

Harold Smoliar
English horn, Pittsburgh Symphony
Piano, Symphony Jazz Quartet
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Conductors, interpretations and fluffy nonsense 
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:08:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.115508.16670@lloyd.Camex.COM> chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.005318.15578@hubcap.clemson.edu>
>epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu (A replicant) writes:
>
>>   1)  Name the recording you think best exemplifies
>>       how an interpretation of a work can really make
>>       a good and noticeable difference.
>
>Oh no, I'm not falling into that trap.  %^)
>(well, ok.  Toscanini's Falstaff.)


Interesting choice, especially since a two-disk set of these rehearsals 
is available.  From the Toscanini Recordings Association; not difficult
to find.


Even so, I would recommend the single disk of excerpts from Toscanini's
La Traviata rehearsals, same company.  "Stringendo" indeed!


>
>Chris Ischay
>chrisi@camex.com


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Messiah "Amen" and tympani
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:33:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.173443.20218@Princeton.EDU>, roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes...
>So: both ways are right, and also "right."  Which way do you like better? 


I like it with the flourishes. But I should note that in high
school I played the tympani in concert band and used to watch
the tympanist of the National Symphony with a binocular at their
concerts... 


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.jazz,rec.music.misc,rec.music.cd
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: CARTOON MUSIC! HELP AND A CHALLENGE
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 19:37:26 GMT
Organization: Usenet Power Elite: Crush-The-Innocent-Newbies Strike Team

Could someone with both Raymond Scott CDs comment on whether it's worth
getting the Sony/Columbia release if you already have the Stash disc?
I noticed some serious track overlap between the two, but if the Sony
disc is from better-sounding sources . . .

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rblanco@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Rhenee M Blanco)
Subject: Minus one
Summary: Request for info on synonyms and sources
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:09:15 GMT

         Hi! Has someone here heard of a minus one? What other terms are used
to refer to this in the USA?.
         I am interested in names/addr/phone# of shops that sell them.
         I know a couple of kids who would be thrilled to practice, for
example, a Saint-Saens cello concerto and an Accolay violin concerto 
together with
orchestral accompaniment even from a "minus one"..
         Thank you for any help.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.shenanigans
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Huenter Kradaken?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:20:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.234129.18239@cheshire.oxy.edu> dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.181346.9696@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.031408.21669@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> sklar@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Dave Sklar) writes:
>>>
>>>	I think he's on a Trivial Pursuit card.  The question's about a
>>>composer who later became a zoologist.  I won't get it wrong anymore!
>>
>>Another little-known fact about Krakaden is that his speciality in zoology
>>was lemur-training.  Before his death he was training some Ringtailed
>>Lemurs to play the works of Mozart on miniature grand pianos.
>>
>Oh please! This sounds to me like utter bullshit, and I wonder how much
>of the other information that has been posted on this newsgroup about
>Kradaken has also been bullshit. I was very sincere in my desire to
>know more about Kradaken when I first posted the inquiry, and now
>I wonder if the responses I have received are actual Kradaken facts
>or are simply some groups idea of a sick joke. I am still interested
>in knowing about Kradaken, but if you all would please cut out the
>silliness, thank you. Kradaken was a very talented and beautiful
>composer of music, and I am sick of people playing jokes on my and
>his expense. I would've thought rec.music.classical was above this
>sort of sophomoric idiocy.


Yes.  *This* sort of sophomoric idiocy is beneath us.

By the third posting on this subject I strongly suspected that a
prank was in progress, and that "Huenter Kradaken" was, in fact,
an anagram or cipher which, once cracked, would reward the
analyst with information regarding the whereabouts of Alkan's
lost symphony.  To confirm my hunch, I checked Baker's last night, 
but had in the meantime managed to forget most of Kradaken's
last name.  A quick scan of the "K" listings, however, revealed
no such individual.  More inclined to trust Slonimsky's skill
as a ferret than the high moral purpose of net-contributions to 
this subject, I expressed my doubts in e-mail, citing the whiff 
of hoax I assumed was detectable by all but the most gullible of
readers.  I have since been assured, however, in the strongest
possible terms, that "Huenter Kradaken" can be used and not
merely mentioned.

Onward to the New Grove, where all the questions that matter have
answers.


>
>Steven
>
>
>-- 
>"You can't help that. We're all mad here."-The cheshire cat, Alice in WL
>
>"A mass hysteria/a megalomania/reveal Dementia/reveal"-Metallica                


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Mozart, Tourettes and Spelling.
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:44:58 GMT

In article <215190003@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Chris Robson) writes:
>I read an article in a paper recently that suggested that Mozart may have
>been a sufferer of Touret's (sp?) syndrome (as some people here have also
>said of Huenter Kradaken). The evidence cited was the scatalogical nature
>of some of his letters and some of his reported behaviour. It was also noted
>that Tourets syndrome is also often associated with some deep creative ability.
>Is this theory respectable or is it more Amadeus tosh?

This is not Amadeus tosh, but rather doctors-dabbling-in-music-history tosh.
There's been a lot of this--Mozart's last illness alone has attracted dozens
of articles in medical journals and musicological ones--but it's generally
fruitless.  

As for Mozart and Tourette's, 

a) Since when do sufferers from Gilles de la Tourette's Syndrome *write*
scatologically, and how do they manage to keep it, as in Mozart's case,
limited to one or two family correspondents at one short period in their
life?

b) What evidence as to the involuntary nature of Mozart's obscene speech
exists?  I can think of no other behavior on his part that would suggest
Tourette's Syndrome.

In all, I have seen no evidence to suggest that Mozart had any psychiatric
disorder.  Please read Andrew Steptoe's responses to Peter G. Davies in\
Music and Letters (1991) for more information.

Roger
From: hellerS@moravian.edu (sjh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Looking for Carlisle Floyd's "Susanna" on CD
Keywords: Floyd Susanna
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:48:12 GMT

The Subject sez it. Does anyone know of a CD recording of C. Floyd's
"Susanna"? Please email me any info you might have on it. Thanks!

Steve Heller
hellerS@moravian.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rags@triples.math.mcgill.ca (Robert A. G. Seely)
Subject: Re: My Christmas CDs
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:04:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.235952.1065@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:

>No no no.  Don't expect friends or family to buy CDs or books for you
>("Hey, Beethoven's sixth, and CONDUCTED BY RICCARDO MUTI!  WOW!") unless
>the whole lot of you are severely dysfunctional.  You must break this
>pattern EARLY.  Here are some suggestions based on more than 40 years
>of experience with this knotty interpersonal difficulty:
>
[several sensible suggestions cut...]

Another:  go into your favorite shop, pick out the CDs you like, and hand
them to your spouse/friend/parents/relations/boss/whatyouwill, and say
"Here's my Christmas present - thank you for your excellent taste and
discernment".   ;-}
(If that is not sufficiently subtle an approach, a variant is to give said
person a pile much bigger than their budget will allow and let them "choose"
from this.  This variant also allows the said person the delusion of free
will in a (fortunately) controlled environment.  This is sometimes necessary
to preserving other aspects of the relationship...  ;-} )

So here is what I got for Xmas (read "Chi"-mas for those who seem to think X
disrespectful):  
The Marin Marais box set of suites played by Jordi Savall and friends
The Lobo requiem by Tallis Scholars
Pillars of Eternity (Eton Choirbook excerpts Vol 3) - The Sixteen, Harry
       Christophers
Watkins Ale and Art of Bawdy Song, by Baltimore Consort
Lord Herbert of Cherbury's Lute Book (Paul O'Dette) - haven't seen that one 
       reviewed before, but as is anything O'Dette produces, it is highly
       recommendable.
And some oldies: Music for Hammered Dulcimer (Jim Couza) (the kind of busker
       music you always want to hear but never do when rushing through the
       Metro to work)
Enchanted Carols (the music box approach to Xmas music)

The last two are from Saydisk, which reminds me that a while back some folk
wanted info about the Maddy Prior CDs:  (from the ad in the back of the
liner notes:) Sing lustily and with good courage (CD-SDL 383) (west gallery
hymns)   and   Tapestry of Carols (CD-SDL 366).

I think the Marais is the highlight here - many of these performances are
old - mid to late 70's - but they still hold up very well.  Of course, the
set is being sold on the coat-tails of Tous les Matins du Monde, but there
is no harm in that.  The musical integrety is very high.  (BTW - anyone in
the Montreal area:  Jordi Savall is giving a couple of concerts end of
January.  Contact Societe de Musique Ancienne for details.  For those
outside the Montreal area: I hope others can post details of other stops on
his tour (I assume there are other stops...).)  The Eton series just keeps
getting better - a big improvement over this groups first attempts a decade
ago.  And I heartily agree with the rave reviews about the Baltimore Consort
that appeared last month.

-rags
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical