HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esper@a1.ima.umn.edu (Dave Sherohman)
Subject: Re: A Mother Speaks Out
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:35:05 GMT

In article <1i2mspINNo86@meaddata.meaddata.com> dlovely@meaddata.com (David Lovely) writes:
>|> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>|> >
>|> >The Bible does not say that being
>|> >black is a sin.  The Bible does not say that being a working
>|> >mother is a sin.  So it doesn't matter what others have said.
>|> >However, the Bible does say that homosexual behavior is a sin.
>|> 	
>|> 	The Bible also says it's perfectly alright to throw your
>|> young virgin daughters out into a pack of ravening rapists, but
>|> I somehow think we've grown as a race morally in the last 
>|> TWO *THOUSAND* YEARS. 

[David Lovely's response deleted]

The poster (identity now lost) who originally responded to Mr. Christensen's
posting has made a grievous error - namely that of assuming that simply because
the Bible states that someone has done somthing, it is condoning that action.
I have seen arguments based upon this error stating that the Bible condones
rape, murder, child sacrifice, homosexual behavior, idol worship, adultery,
incest, and a horde of other activities which it, in reality, explicitly
condemns.  Should you honestly believe that the Bible "says it's perfectly
alright to throw your young virgin daughters out into a pack of ravening
rapists", I suggest you consider that a) the pack of rapists were trying to
get ahold of two men who were visiting Lot's house, b) they were ready to
break into his house to do so, and c) when he offered his daughters to appease
the mob, the two "men" (actually angels - Gen 19:1) struck the mob blind
before Lot had a chance to actually give them his daughters.  Also consider
that after hiding in a cave for some time, Lot's daughters repaid him by
getting him drunk, having sex with him, and mothering the Moabites and the
Ammonites, later to become vicious enemies of Israel.

>
>*******************************************************************************
>David P. Lovely					      BOYCOTT BARBRA STREISAND!
>Mead Data Central	       Don't Blame Me.  I didn't vote for Slick Willie.
>Dayton, Ohio						       Vote KEMP in 96!
>
>"Government isn't the solution to our problems, government IS the problem!"
>	-Ronald W. Reagan
>
>*******************************************************************************

Love that .sig!  But why boycott Streisand?  (Not that I patronize her
anyhow, but I'm curious...)

esper@ima.umn.edu

(Sorry, I missed this threadwhen it was active before, and I don't know how
long ago that was...  Hopefully it's not a long-dead thread that everyon's
sick of...)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow)
Subject: Re: Able/Disabled Couples
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:08:42 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Hi Gail, glad to meet you!

In <1ia4pdINNkic@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ce293@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gail E. Brookhart) writes:

>I am hoping to get the benefit of our world-wide experience on the topic of
>successful relationships where one member of the couple is able-bodied and
>the other has a disability.

I am "temporarily able-bodied", as the saying goes :-) I have been
volunteering in an amputee support group for a couple of years, and
have come to know many such couples over time.  I was also in a brief
relationship with a lady amputee at one point.  The issues are
interesting.  The relationships generally work as well or better as any
others if they get past a few hurdles, such as "Is my disability really
OK with you?", "Do you have problems with the opinions friends or
family have about me?", and "Is your interest in me based on things I
am comfortable with or on pity or perversion?"

I have been attracted to a couple of women whose severe disabilities
prevented me from pursuit; in large part, that was more of a problem in
the past, because I am now much more aware of how much they can indeed
still do.  I was once rejected because of a perception that my interest
in her was somehow "weird".  A friend's relationship had some rough
weather because of an extreme negative reaction from his brother to her
lack of limbs (he refused to meet her, alone of all family members).

Another issue is the fact that the disabled are not always thought of
as sexual beings, and that sometimes an acquired disability can raise
some serious doubts about a person's desireability or even about the
ability to perform sexually.  That's not always an easy nut to crack,
as prior relationships may have gone by the wayside because of the
disability.  I know one woman missing a leg who would probably reject
anyone who was interested in her for any reason, because of her self-
esteem problems, and another who is happily involved after a divorce
brought on by her amputation.

I guess in summary, I think that if people keep their eyes open and
their wits about them that such a relationship can be wonderful.  I
think being aware of the actual (not perceived!) limitations the
disabled person has and dealing with the issues up-front can make a
world of difference.  Making assumptions and being afraid to talk
openly with your partner can hurt here more than in some other
relationships.

You'll have to tell us more about your relationship at some point :-)

Rob T
--
Rob Thurlow, thurlow@convex.com
"Sometimes it feels like the sun just comes up out of habit,
 And goes down as quick as it can,
 These days, you just have to grab it as it goes by."
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: O1ADAMS@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Debbie Adams)
Subject: Re: Interracial Relationships
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:33:11 GMT

In article <C0DvyF.56y@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
 
> when teenagers get involved interracially
>parents sometimes see it as some sort of rebellion statement as opposed
>to a real relationship.
>
Now I find that statement rather interesting.  Does this mean the teenager
is saying OK I don't like a certain thing, therefore, I'm going to do what
is not acceptable to my parents or society.  In other words what they're
doing is bad?
 
I'm a parent and I think teenagers today don't see color or race like we
used to.  They pretty much seem to find nothing wrong with a person because
of they're race or color.  They may have a problem more with what they're
wearing than anything else.  .................Until they start dating
someone of another color.  They seem to accept other races better than a
mixture of black and white.  Black men and white women seem to be
acceptable more than white men and black women.  What are we parents really
teaching our children?  Our children are our future.
 
Race or color shouldn't matter.  We should all live together but society has
not changed.  Will it ever really change where race isn't so much of an issue?
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Significant other(s) - polygamy?
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:48:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.214420.23863@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:

>Hindsight is 20/20 and that's what I'm looking through here.  I've
>been in Gerry's situation and stayed in the relationship until it
>kind of crumpled around me and my blunt non-sugar-coated advice
>is Gerry, tell her to go to hell.  NOW.

... and people wonder why we formed alt.polyamory as a separate
newgroup? I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work for you, Nancy, but
there are other people for whom it has worked. The nice thing about
people is that they're all different.
From: mmord@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Showers with SOs
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:18:01 MST

In article <1i7id0INNlue@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, terrylee@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Patricia M Currier) writes:
> In article <1htc66INNn27@network.ucsd.edu> mbreen@sdacs.ucsd.edu (Michael Breen) writes:
>>One of our plans for our "dream house" is a large bath with two shower heads,
>>so we can enjoy the "growing closer" without the jockeying for position
>>that occurs in our too-tiny single-shower-head bath.
> 
> 
> And I thought I was the only one who wanted a shower like that.  Anybody else
> out there in net.land that thinks showers should be made with two heads?  
> Maybe we can convince the plumbing industry to start making them standerd...

We start construction within 5 weeks hopefully.  Our master shower is
3'x 5' and has two shower heads of different heights ;)  I'm 6'2" and
she's 5'3".

Bret
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: O1ADAMS@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Debbie Adams)
Subject: Re: Remarrying Ex
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:49:33 GMT

I think remarrying is OK depending on the reason you divorced in the first
place also as long as you've had enoungh time in between marriages.
 
I remarried my ex because I feel very strongly that things are different
now and it will work.  My ex was a drug user and has now given his life
to Christ.  He does not drink, do drugs, or do any of the bad habits he
had before.  He has been clean and changed for a year and a half now and
we remarried in September.  It took me a while to regain trust in him
but faith and communication works.
 
But before we remarried we discussed a lot of things that we felt were wrong
with our marriage and realized that love was still there and worth
salvaging.  We had been divorced for 2 1/2 years.
 
Good luck to you but keep the lines of communication open and anything works
in Christ.
 
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: jtripp@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Tripp)
Subject: Re: Showers with SOs
Organization: The Ohio State University
 Currier) writes:
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:30:56 GMT

And speakikng of showeres (I really can spell, I just cant' type!),
my wife is in a wheelchair with MS. Taking a shower with her is one of
the "fun" things that I miss the most.  That double shower head sounds
ideal.
Newsgroups: soc.couples,alt.sex.wizards
From: "amy lynn young-leith" <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Significant other(s) - polygamy?
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:46:21 -0500

In article <1993Jan7.214420.23863@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:
>Gerry, and others:
>
>Hindsight is 20/20 and that's what I'm looking through here.  I've
>been in Gerry's situation and stayed in the relationship until it
>kind of crumpled around me and my blunt non-sugar-coated advice
>is Gerry, tell her to go to hell.  NOW.  While you still have your

My, aren't we quite the bitch?  Why not just tell this woman that he
can't accept that, it doesn't mesh with his desires and values, and
that he cannot continue a non-manogamous relationship?  That would be
much more productive. 

>dignity and before the she does the deed.  Let her know that if
>she carries through with it, she can kiss your ass goodbye and look
>toward the rest of her life without you in it.

I do heartily agree that she should *not* do anything until this man
has made a "decision."  And at that point, if she can't live with that
decision, the relationship will best be broken off.  But there's no
reason to be an ass about it. 

>I take it you don't want her to screw the other guy, right?  And I
>don't think many people would hold those feelings against you, not only
>considering how emotionally painful it is but there are diseases and
>shit out there that can cost you your life.  No relationship is worth

Can the emotionalism.  If she's had sex before, he's "in danger" as
well.  If *he's* had sex before he's in danger.  There *are* ways of
avoiding diseases.  No, you cannot reduce the risk to 0% but you can't
reduce the risk of a car accident to 0%, and people do that every day.
In fact, it's much more dangerous than sex and people do it more
often, as well. 

>that price no matter HOW sweet and wonderful you think it is.  If this
>woman is so mentally screwed up that she needs to mess around with
>other guys to prove something to herself WITHOUT thinking about your
>feelings and what it will do to your relationship (namely, destroy it),
>dump the bitch.

Can the attitude.  Not everyone views relationships the same.  If you
can't accept the fact that people don't all wallow in monogamy, then
grow up and realize that whole world doesn't look through your eyes.
Doesn't mean you have to like it, or do it, but you don't have to be
such an ass about it. 

amy
-- 
alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu for personal mail
			    All business mail to alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             I.U. probably doesn't agree with me.  I don't speak for
                    them so it doesn't matter, now does it? 
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Subject: Re: Sick and Tired of All the Damn Couples!
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:33:39 GMT

In article <oneil.726814069@cwis> oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
>This is probably just due to the fact that it has snowed EVERY OTHER DAY
>for the last week and we're currently having yet another blizzard and I've
>about HAD IT being stuck in my house ALONE.  :-)
>
[...]
>right now.  I'm really resenting all my friends because they're so damn
>coupled.  When you're single, all the burden of calling people to do 
>things seems to fall upon you.  I guess couples don't ever sit around and
>think, "Gosh, I'm bored.  Wonder what Sharon's doing?"  It's not that I'm
[...]
>Yes, this is a plea for attention.  Please send *HUGS*!


I can appreciate that, both from way back and more recently...

*Hugs*

However, you try trying to get, let alone maintain, a romantic life
when you're a soloparent with 4 schoolage children and a parttime
university student...  :-)   
(hint: time & money, are not the only obstacles!) 

Have you thought about joining a tramping club?  It gives you
opportunities to mix with boys and practice building low key
friendships.  Also, if a boy sems desirable, you can take your time to
know him, *before* you formally ask him, or "subtly" encourage him to
ask you, for a date.  The same probably applies to any activity which
can be mixed, and involves a range of activities that mean a small
group of people are likely to be together for at least a day at a time.

Have you considered joining some predominantly male clubs, like chess,
or computer clubs, some of the boys will be glad to help you.  A lot
of them are shy and lack confidence in dealing with girls, but given
an opportunity to demonstrate skills they are proud of, they will feel
better at intaracting with you.  Remember, boys can get *very* nervous
about being with a girl, and may do, or say, silly things to cover
this up!


Gavin
-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>>>  Showers with SOs
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:32:02 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

> And I thought I was the only one who wanted a shower like that.  Anybody else
> out there in net.land that thinks showers should be made with two heads?  
> Maybe we can convince the plumbing industry to start making them standerd...

In Dallas, that is not uncommon to find in a house.  In fact, the couple
across the street from me did that.  The shower is about 6 ft long and 
and there is ceramic tiled bench between the two shower heads.  It is 
all enclosed.  A bird's eye view is ....
 
     +---------+  Glass Door
  \              /
  /   +-----+    \
 /    |Bench|     \
 ===^=========^==== Ceramic Tiled Wall
     \       /
       Heads 


Thank you. 


					Steve Simmons
From: martinc@grover.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: How Strong Should a Man Be? and RESPECT!
Followup-To: soc.couples
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:23:07
Organization: UNC Department of Computer Science
	<1993Jan6.074929.3900@netcom.com> <76170@apple.apple.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grover.cs.unc.edu
In-reply-to: pooh@Apple.COM's message of 6 Jan 93 11:41:15 GMT

In article <76170@apple.apple.COM> pooh@Apple.COM (Pooh) writes:

   In the referenced article, gerg@netcom.com (Greg Andrews) writes:
   >K. Roper <ROPERK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
   >>
   >>  Strong enough to admit that yes, women sweat, fart and belch.
   >>
   >
   >*I* have no problem admitting that.  It's my *SO* who steadfastly
   >rejects the idea she could ever do such things...

   Not only does my SO admit it, but he critiques each emission
   as being too wimpy.  I'm trying to work on it. ;-)

I can strongly (!) recommend rotkohl, and prepackaged erbseneintopf was
always a winner.

--
		Charles R. Martin/(Charlie)/martinc@cs.unc.edu
     Dept. of Computer Science/CB #3175 UNC-CH/Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3175
	    3611 University Dr #13M/Durham, NC 27707/(919) 419 1754
     "Oh God, please help me be civil in tongue, pure in thought, and able
      to resist the temptation to laugh uncontrollably.  Amen." -- Rob T
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: How Strong Should a Man Be? and RESPECT!
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:58:21 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <76170@apple.apple.COM> pooh@Apple.COM (Pooh) writes:
>In the referenced article, gerg@netcom.com (Greg Andrews) writes:
|>K. Roper <ROPERK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
|>>
|>>  Strong enough to admit that yes, women sweat, fart and belch.
|>
|>*I* have no problem admitting that.  It's my *SO* who steadfastly
|>rejects the idea she could ever do such things...
|
|Not only does my SO admit it, but he critiques each emission
|as being too wimpy.  I'm trying to work on it. ;-)

Hey Pooh (pun not intended), pull my finger.

>
>Pooh
>	pooh@apple.com


Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: kevin@clsi.COM (Kevin Cameron)
Subject: Re: Sick and Tired of All the Damn Couples!
Originator: kevin@dubhe
Reply-To: kevin@clsi.com
Organization: CAD Language Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 19:18:48 GMT


In article <oneil.726814069@cwis>, oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
> 
> I know this will probably start a flurry of why don't you find some single
> friend letters.  Believe me, this is is something I've been working at:
> trying to expand my social circle, going out places and all that.  But geez,
> there don't seem to be that many around here.

> Did someone kidnap all the single people?

No, we just aren't in Nebraska.

> You think we could all band together against these couples?

Then we wouldn't be single.

> Yes, this is a plea for attention.  Please send *HUGS*!
                          ^^^^^^^^^

Wrong group really, soc.couples is better for sympathy. You can get flamed to
death on soc.singles if you want attention.

Post your phone number and you'll never have a moments peace again :-)

Kev.


-- 

WHFS: Living in a screwed-up place in a screwed-up time with screwed-up people,
      does not necessarily mean you are screwed-up.
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan)
Subject: Re: Interracial Relationships
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:54:13 GMT


In article <1993Jan5.130510.27410@athena.mit.edu> rcmarab@athena.mit.edu (He Whose Name Is Not Spoken) writes:
>I would be interested in seeing people's experiences with interracial
>relationships, especially with how it affected interactions with parents,
>friends, etc.

In my experience (she's from India, I'm caucasian), it hasn't been a
problem. Over the holidays we went and visited just about every family
member I have, and we experienced nothing out of the ordinary. Of
course, I'm fortunate in that my family is far from the uptight,
narrow-minded bigot type. Our ages may also have something to do with
it (late 20s - early 30s); when teenagers get involved interracially
parents sometimes see it as some sort of rebellion statement as opposed
to a real relationship.

There's a fairly decent book on this subject called "Different Worlds"
which I found at the local library. Although aimed at teenagers, it
gives a good idea of what life can be like for an interracial couple.
From: andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Interracial Relationships
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:18:59 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <16B50400E.O1ADAMS@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> O1ADAMS@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Debbie Adams) writes:
>In article <C0DvyF.56y@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
> 
>> when teenagers get involved interracially
>>parents sometimes see it as some sort of rebellion statement as opposed
>>to a real relationship.
>>
>Now I find that statement rather interesting.  Does this mean the teenager
>is saying OK I don't like a certain thing, therefore, I'm going to do what
>is not acceptable to my parents or society.  In other words what they're
>doing is bad?
Simple true story as an illustration.  About 8 years ago we saw one of
my wife's high school aquaintances.  Her current boyfriend was black and
it was quite clear that she was doing it to piss her mother off.

About half a year later we saw her mother.  Her mother was quite shocked
to find out that we were a religious intermarriage (Jewish-Methodist), but
shared with us the even more shocking news that her daughter was "dating
a black man."

So, I guess her daughter's ploy was working.  To support your other notion
that people are more accepting of Asian-white relationships than
black-white relationships, the mother thought it would be fine if her
daughter married an Asian because their children are "so smart."  Yes,
boys and girls, racism is alive and well in America and people use it
to get at their parents.

>Race or color shouldn't matter.  We should all live together but society has
>not changed.  Will it ever really change where race isn't so much of an issue?
I think it can only change by living our lifes justly and encouraging
others to do the same, but it will be a slow and painful process.

Andy
Xref: sparky soc.couples:4663 alt.sex.wizards:4345