From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Relativity and Pearl Harbor (was: Japanese atrocities)
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:57:58 GMT
	<JMC.92Jul12143016@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> <13q9ouINNmg1@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<13rev3INNqj1@agate.berkeley.edu> <n81cedo@zola.esd.sgi.com>
	<viking.711048113@vincent1.iastate.edu> <n8tanpg@zola.esd.sgi.com>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

<In article <n8tanpg@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
<   In article <viking.711048113@vincent1.iastate.edu>, viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
<   |> In <n81cedo@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
<   |> 
<   |> >I'd put it slightly differently.  It's not so much that 
<   |> >Americans make a big deal out of Pearl Harbour; more that 
<   |> >they portray the surprise element as being of overwhelming 
<   |> >importance.
<   |> 
<   |> 	For the purposes of supplying a nation with a will to fight,
<   |> this is a very important aspect to remember.

<   Yes, of course, and no-one is forgetting.  However, it's fifty
<   years later, and people still rememember Pearl Harbour as a
<   "Day of infamy" and still seem to experience a sense of outrage,
<   and even some racist feelings, about the whole thing.

	Yeah, those survivors of the Bataan Death March should
	just shut up, right?

<   My comment is that although this was successful propaganda at
<   the time, presenting the japanese attack as some uniquely 
<   villainous act, maybe it's about time that people spent a
<   little more time pondering whether this *was* just propaganda,
<   and if it's not time to take a slightly less self-righteous
<   view of events.  A view, for example, that includes the less
<   than sparkling performance of US forces.

	Oh, that view exists; but many of the people who still
	remember Pearl are of sufficient age to have had friends
	and/or family lost in the Pacific during that war.

<   |> 
<   |> >I often wonder what Americans would say if the Germans had
<   |> >wiped out the RN at anchor.
<   |> 
<   |> 	"Hey, Win!  I've a pristeen Navy here I could lease to ya for a
<   |> small fee.  Yup, and new boats are on the way.  What do ya say?"

<   No, you completely missed the point.   I am wondering, if the
<   Germans had managed to pull a Pearl Harbour on the British,
<   would Americans conclude that Germans were uniquely villainous,
<   and would they still be saying so today, or would they rather 
<   ask "Gee, how could the British allow that to happen?  Aren't
<   they supposed to be professionals at this kind of thing?".

	If the Germans had also marched thousands of British
	to death in the tropics, executed 10 men for every 
	1 who escaped, put men with severe illnesses to work
	in coal mines and generally treated capitive British
	troops worse than slaves....yes, I suspect many British
	people would have a negative opinion of the Germans.

	Try reading "They were expendable", "They fought alone"
	and anything on the Bataan campaign for a clue as to why
	some people don't like Japanese very much. 

	Or drop by White Sands next spring, during the Bataan
	Death March Memorial service....some survivors of the
	200th Coastal Artillery Bn (New Mexico National Guard)
	may be there...maybe you can correct their thinking?