HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:25:12 GMT

In article <BzM9up.17rp@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:

>A question:  is this a BIG DEAL for society?  Clearly not.

A question for you, Alan, and this is meant seriously:

What is the difference between an issue being a big deal for society
and society perceiving an issue to be a big deal?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: treating men as sex toys
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 08:04:05 GMT

In article <MUFFY.92Dec24114049@remarque.berkeley.edu>
     muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:

>To me, this concept (men as sex toys) is very similar to the "hot bi
>babes" idea, where the women have a sexual relationship, but the real
>focus is on their relationship with the man.

   I dunno; when I was dealing with the purely sexual side of my
bisexuality, this appealed to me, the concept of men as sex toys.  I
perceived men as more fun, more agressive, more give-me-what-I-want,
then women were.  Of course, all of this was before I had actually
slept with a man, but watching the man-made heterosexual porn, woman-
made porn, and gay porn, the last was simply the best.  At least these
guys *knew* how to fuck, and were doing it for the sheer pleasure of
fucking.  *That* really appealed to me.

   The catch was, of course, that I was too much of a coward to
actually go out cruising gay bars and the like, looking for that kind
of interaction.  It took a singularly powerful _emotional_ attraction
to convince me that I should have sex with a man, and eventually I did.

   The sex was wonderful... and as much similar as different from
heterosexual sex.  I'm not saying I've given up on the notion of men as
sex toys, but my interactions with people as I've gotten older (and,
maybe, more mature) make it clear to me that as much as anyone can be a
lover, anyone can be my sex toy, too...

         Elf !!!
--
elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg)

Then, I was inspired.               God, thy will is hard
Now, I'm sad and tired.             But you hold every card.
Listen, surely I've exceeded        I will drink your cup of poison.
Expectations.                       Nail me to your cross and break me.
Tried for three years,              Bleed me, beat me.
Seems like thirty.                  Kill me.
Could you ask as much               Take me now.
From any other man?                 Before I change my mind.
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17365 soc.motss:53955
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: _Details_ magazine (was: Giddyness)
Date: 29 Dec 1992 15:48:15 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <1992Dec28.180959.13281@bsu-ucs>, d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
|> In article <1hn2i8INNd6u@cuda.add.itg.ti.com>, winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js) writes:
|> > In article <1992Dec24.200952.13271@bsu-ucs>, d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
|> > |> Gosh, EXACTLY that much of the song appears in the Jan 1993 issues of
|> > |> _Details_ magazine.    Love my _Deatials_ -- it's a very gay-postitive
|> > |> magazine. In fact, I'd argue that it purposely goes out of its way to
|> > |> accomodate LGBO readers.
|> > 
|> > How's that?  I just subscribed to _Details_ myself, but I have gotten it on the
|> > newstands often.  And never noticed gay-positive anything.  I just knew I liked
|> > the writing: honest, frank, hip, and funny.  (I could do without all the
|> > fashion and hair-goop nonesense, tho  ;> ).  Please elaborate - I'd like to know
|> > exactly *what* subliminal techniques worked on me, since I never noticed
|> > a bent, other than NONE at all.
|> > 
|> > john
|> 
|> john, here are a few examples. I'll use the Jan 1993 issue (the only on I have
|> that hasn't been hacked to pieces [journalism student that I am])
[copious examples ad infinitum.....]

gosh!  
I didn't realize that I trod upon a sacred cow of some sort.  Sorry.  :-)
I just meant to say that *I* had never *consiously* noticed that anything
was particularly bent to gay-positiveness.  I love the mag for its openness
and candor with all sorts of issues (especially that ridickulous counter/point
on penises!  Oh, and the one on love drugs and potions, too!).

I don't feel like I've been flamed, just soundly beaten over the head with
what I never noticed.  I *just* found my Jan 93 issue, by the way.
(And you didn't notice the boxer-shorts ad, David?  tsk tsk tsk.)

On more praise of _Details_, I absolutely loved the interview with Brad Pitt.
Especially the part where the author #included an embarrasing moment to 
himself (trying to male-bond and Pitt snuffing it).

|> I don't know about subliminal messages. For a non-gay publication, this
|> magazine is rittled with sexuality diversity.
|> 
|> David
But it has so much MORE diversity than just sexual.  I stand corrected
on the nature of _Details_.  didn't mean to trollop on anybody.

BTW - a man wearing a flowery shower cap *does not* a crossdresser make.

john
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: a *bench* of bisexuals?
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:15:20 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Well, so Kateri and Clive and Ang and I met up in London. An Oxford Link
coach had broken down, so it was quite good that Ang and I caught a later one,
but we were late anyhow, since someone pressed the Emergency button in the
Tube. 

We had a meal at Wong Kei's, where they seem to have given up discourteous,
fast service in favour of vaguely sullen and inefficient service. So we had
to entertain ourselves... the people to our right on the table (looked like
a pair of gay men) were blanching as we discussed threesomes, but the three
people to our left looked utterly unfazed.

We found out why when Clive tried to find out if they'd been waiting for food
quite as long, and was reduced to giggling "Wrong language! Wrong language". I
didn't even recognise their language...

So, after that we went off to the Wonderful-Dutch-pub-nearby-which-serves
-draught-Oranjeboom (was it De Han, Iseult? Anyway, thank you for introducing
me to it!)... where I discovered that the ghastly policy of not serving 
snakebites was being enforced that evening - a real shame, since they also
serve Addlestone's. We went upstairs and hung around a two man sofa, trying to
persuade the het-boy out of it. He wouldn't believe that we could fit four onto
it, so we had to fit all four of us onto half of it, whereupon he declared that
we didn't need his half. Fair enough.

This was followed by he and his mate trying to pick up Kateri, and failing with
that gorgeous Chicagoan, either Ang or me, as the "extraneous" females of the
party. *sigh* And he tried to make off with the half-pint of Oranjeboom I had
left at that stage. They were truly creepy, but eventually cottoned on to the
fact that we were quite happy as we were. They might even have realised that
the women of the party weren't Clive's satellites, especially as we demonstrated
our "hot bi babes" qualities and Kateri/Clive wondered whether we'd get kicked
out. Ang has already encountered my charmed life. And a rose-seller thought he
could sell Clive three roses... I leave out Clive's come-back line on the 
grounds that I want to keep down my dinner...

Tanaqui, who doesn't *think* she posted anything that should be secret ;-)  
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:32:29 GMT

In article <Bzo3B2.Mzy@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <BznvL2.F8n@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>In article <BznGFH.KBq@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>>hysterical, incredibly myopic media)
>>>They teach us something about grammar, at least.
>>Tim, Tim; glass houses, dear friend.  "A hysterical... media"?
>(Not sure, anyway, if you're arguing with my use of the word
>"hysterical" to describe the mass media, or the use of the word
>"media" in the singular.  If the last, I'll argue that the Latin has
>been sufficiently bastardized to make "media" a singular term when
>used in the appropriate context in English.)

Paaaa.... I bet you say "The data is corrupt", too. :)

I shan't even begin to discuss etymology of "hysterical".  But
thanks for pointing it out - I'd been so stunned about "denigrate"
that I hadn't noticed "hysterical".  Eeek.

		hugs for a happy winter-festival,
				Kay

-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:49:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1992Dec21.190016.4066@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

>In <BzKytq.ABu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
>dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
 [...]
>	/1/ Using killfiles is a bad idea.

(Having probably violated every principle of netiquette a hundred
times over yesterday, I'm not one to talk, but ...) may I just 
gently observe that putting someone in a killfile and then flaming 
them publically is *definitely* not a good idea, under any 
circumstances? (You don't even then get the pleasure of watching
your victim publically flailing about trying to reply.)
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17362 soc.motss:53920
From: wij@world.std.com (William I Johnston)
Subject: Re: Questionnaire for HIV-negative people
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:50:56 GMT

In article <Bzqrtv.5I2@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>
>The latter point I could understand, but that's not the impression the
>posting gave.  It came across clearly as a support scheme for people feeling
>guilty about not catching HIV.  Actually, it wasn't even a support scheme,
>it was just academic research, wasn't it?  Sorry, but over here we don't
>have as much sympathy as Americans for in-depth studies of underwater
>basket-weaving, especially if funded by the public purse.
>

As author of the questionnaire (see soc.bi post 17760) aimed
at HIV-negative individuals, I'd like to respond to Graham's
remarks about my study.

I can understand that studying HIV-negative individuals might
seem frivolous, when so much needs to be done to provide
services to HIV-infected individuals. And Toal is right to point
out that it is very "American" to create support groups for
practically everything under the sun.

However, my experience during the past two years as a facilitator
of just such a discussion/support group for HIV-negative gay and
bisexual men in Boston leads me to conclude that there are
important issues to address to help uninfected people stay
uninfected.

Eric Rofes, director of Shanti Project in San Francisco, for
example, feels that addressing the mental health problems of
uninfected men may help stem the epidemic. He cites statistics
that over 1000 gay men in SF who are currently uninfected will
become infected with HIV next year. And it's not because we don't
know what safer sex is.

In an earlier posting, Toal asked humorously if we're next likely
to see a support group for people who don't have multiple
sclerosis.

I understand the comment. Many people in Boston, including HIV-
infected men, felt anger that HIV-negative men had any needs
at all.

I wonder, though, if multiple sclerosis were sexually transmitted
and somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 2 of your potential sexual
partners were infectious, whether we might indeed see the need
for discussion/support groups about MS as well.

I share Toal's suspicion of the plethora of "support" services
that Americans create for themselves. But in this case, I think
the issue is worth investigating. Preventing the transmission of
HIV involves educating not only those who are infected, but those
who are not, and means targeting education to specific subpopulations,
such as people who have been tested.

Finally, to clear up the issue of the nature and funding of my
study: My work is entirely self-directed. I am receiving neither
public nor private funds. I am not affiliated with any research
institution. I am proceeding with this study purely from my own
interest in developing another aspect of HIV/AIDS education.



-- 
wij@world.std.com
William I Johnston
P.O. Box 126
Boston MA 02117 USA
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:19:51 GMT

In article <BzopKx.24xB@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:

>Can we PLEASE get back to the issues at your no-doubt-callused hand?

What's stopping you?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 22 Dec 1992 01:45:54 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>>safarj@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>>>S.D.: 6 2/3" (For small samples, remember, divide by n-1)
>>                   ^^^^^
>>Splutter?!  Remove that word this instant.  The only situation where
>>division by n is appropriate is if you have sampled the whole
>>population.  Now in Joe's case, I might have believed this had happened,
>>or will soon :-) 
>
>Why, Mike?  where n is large, the difference between n and n-1 is
>so small that it makes (asymptotically) no difference; at least, that's
>how my A-level stats teacher explained it.

Well, it is true that 1/sqrt(n) and 1/sqrt(n-1) do get awful close
togther as n increases, but really, it's not as if it's any difficulty
to do the mental -- operation as you're bashing the calculator.  If
you're doing it by computer and you use n, you're daft.  What are you
going to do, have an if to isolate "large" n from "small" n?  No, n has
its proper place (the population standard deviation) and it's wrong,
albeit often close, to apply it to a sample.

Techstuff - ick!  Bar the marking, I just *ceased* to be a working
statistician, and am glad of it.  So why am I provoked to post?  Well,
Kay, you did use the "a-word", asymptotically.  It's not advisable
within my hearing.  I turn into one of those monothematic bores who
rabbits on and on and on about the way the New Physics has its head up
its ass, and they should have clued to this stuff 60 years ago (if not
sooner).  Asymptotics Suck, the world is not deterministic.

It's reality, it's random, get used to it.

hugs
Mike, who has no doubt of Kay's grasp of reality whatsoever, btw.
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: height (was Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining)
From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 11:51:25 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>>5'1", 5'2", 5'5", 5'6", 5'7" & 5'7", I'd say.
>
>*suffer*...and I'm 5'8"...6' in the 4" heels that go with that dress in
>my gif.

   Hmmmm! (I had a (female) 6' partner 4 years ago, most interesting! I
mean, I'm used to it it males, but it was quite delicious in a female...).

   ...and I *want* to see you, in said dress, with aforementioned heels...
8-P

   But you *did* say you were 5'7", I'm sure of it!


>Will you love me if I kind of scrunch down, Joe? (*smile*)

   I'm torn between laughing and staggering about in shock... does this mean
you're outed?!? [laugh!]

   (and I figure I can Cope with 5'8", too 8-P).

Joe.

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Wot! Language again?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 12:06:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.105746.10029@nstn.ns.ca> daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay) writes:
>In <1992Dec23.191920.26201@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>>The Black Hole [...]
>>The Nawab [...]
>>The defending troops [...]
>>Historians today believe [...]
>
>>Piglet, incredibly snobbish literary referentor
>
>You may find that Jojo knows a thing or two about literature.  He has been
>known to -- accidentally, it seems most likely -- weave a historical,
>cultural, or literary reference into his otherwise nearly-illiterate and
>senseless ravings.  Of course, if he had any real knowledge or insight, he
>would cite chapter, book, and verse for each invoked image.

Touche. My mugwump sends you exploding kisses. Explain, and the world
explains with you. Rave, and you rave alone. A luminescent Pierrot
tear touches the corner of my eye.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:32:11 GMT

In <1992Dec21.160211.22352@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
>Ciaran McHale wrote:
>> I disagree that that any X movement is defined in terms of non-X. For
>> example, I don't think that any GLB (or a subset thereof) movement is
>> defined in terms of straight people. Similarly, I agree with Iseult that
>> feminism is not, and cannot be, defined in terms of men.
>
>Maybe I'm not making myself clear, the GLB or feminism movement is 
>a movement for/about GLB or women, BUT the existence of that movement
>would not occured if it were not for an oppressive group, straight or
>men.  You don't see a straight or masculine movement, because they're
>not oppressed and therefore have no reason to exist.

I think we are in heated agreement. News is a bit behind here at the
moment but seems to be catching up. An article I posted yesterday on
this topic should hopefully clear up any misunderstanding, if it
manages to make it to your site. The basic point I made was that there
is a difference between "heterosexuality" (being attracted only to
motos) and "heterosexism" (the belief that heterosexuality is the only
"right" sexuality). While a GLB movmement can be defined in terms of
heterosexism, I don't think it can be defined in terms of
heterosexuality. To make the analogy with feminism, heterosexuality=men
and heterosexism=patriarchy.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Subject: Re: Singing Queers
Reply-To: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 01:01:52 GMT

In article <1h1a4bINN1m8@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
> So true.  But it's worth adding Andy Bell, the guy with the voice in
> Erasure.  (I took a dislike to them to start with, becaus he sounded
> like a poor imitation of Alison Moyet, aka Alf, who used to play with
> Vince as Yazoo, or Yaz in the States [not to be confused with Yazz, a
> rather different Brit singer]; I've no info on Moyet's queerstatus.) 
> 
She's queer. Check-out the liner notes from her last CD where she credits
her lover for "keeping the homefires buring." I only noticed that
after the concert. A bunch of my l-friends like her also (and didn't know,
either), so when she came to Boston, I got tickets for the six of us.
When we got there ( a mainstream club) we found a very hip, mostly queer
crowd (and some confused straight couples). Alison came out to the crowd
(and vice versa). Her voice is awesome (Cindy Crawford eat your heart out).
A really interesting night, topped by meeting a lesbian there who joined
us at a women's bar after the concert ended up taking me out to dinner ...

Mark
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Watters)
Subject: Sharon Stone (was Re: Liberty (was ...))
Reply-To: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:49:00 +0000

david parsons quoting:
>| I thought that the character she played in Basic Instinct was
>| terrific - proving that even bi's can be psychotic killers!

>   Something like Cl*yt*n Cr*m*r with looks and a backbone, I'd
> say; moderately amusing, but not worth it to be intimate with or
> even drool over.

And with a major lack of taste -- falling for Michael Douglas's character?!?
(Plus being a smoker is another no-no of course)  Having said that, I did
enjoy the cinematic style of the intial police interrogation scene, and some
of that was due to her character.
---
iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk  |  Hon Secretary of the London Bisexual Group
                              |  c/o BM BI, London, Great Britain  WC1N 3XX
<< Never mind the LBG, *I* disagree with everything here, including this >>

>>>MATRIX version  1.21e
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace)
Subject: No subject 
Reply-To: cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 18:00:00 +0000

Bristol Bi Group
Has anyone got a number for the uk Bristol Bi Group -- it was in 
Ubiquitous or somethings a while back -- but I seem to have lost it.

Any Bi Bath/Bristolians on the net?

Please mail me or follow up here.
--
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| When I grow up, I want to give up being   |cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk|
| a Journalist and learn how to write...    |                          |
+-------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
|       Bisexual knitter of quality and distinction since 1992.        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: omaha@hardy.u.washington.edu (Omaha Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Lurkers
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:52:51 GMT

elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>   Other reactions I've had have included "You know, I expected you to
>look a lot different."  When I asked what she had expected, she said
>"The cover of Aqualung."
>   I dunno; do I come across as the sort of person who "[sits] on a
>park bench eyeing little girls with bad intent?"

	<confusion> But, dear, you do.<giggle>
			
					Omaha

Newsgroups: soc.bi