From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.motss,alt.atheism,ba.politics,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:40:24 GMT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:

> In <57JXNB10w165w@batpad.lgb.ca.us> mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Mike Batchelor) writes:
> >Boy, after I gave up the idea of god, I was able to come to terms with
> >being gay, learn to love and accept myself, and my self-esteem
> >improved markedly.  I was able to relate to people much better, having
> >become much more personable and comfortable around them, not feeling
> >guilty about my secret hidden 'sin.'  I lost god, and it changed my
> >life drastically for the better.
> 
> >How's that?
> 
> Actually Mike I've gotten two responses like yours but am surprised at
> how few.  Maybe only a couple people are reading this thread.  I also 
> need to point out that I'm not talking about a "big hairy thunderer" 
> as God but as a metaphysical rightness in the universe.  In any case 
> the number of people I've heard of who claimed a concept of God helped
> them so overwhelms others like yourself that I'll play the odds and 
> stick to wanting the BSA to keep its God policy.

The metaphysical rightness in my universe is how I treat the people
around me, and what I expect in return.

I have no problem with the BSA teaching God and country and all that.
I'm an Eagle Scout with a bronze palm myself.  My problem is with
the hypocrisy of their proclaimed inclusiveness as contrasted with
their practiced exclusiveness.  My problem is with the BSA boosters
who feel that a boycott of Levi Strauss is in order because they
refuse to cooperate with and support this hypocrisy.  No, it's even
simpler than that.  My problem with the BSA boosters is that they are
trying to force Levi to continue the contributions, as if the BSA has
a right to Levi Strauss' charity.

> >> Others of course disagree, and I invite them to find other youth 
> >> groups or create their own.  But part of the reason I'm in scouts with
> 
> >We're trying to do just that - it's called Project 10, and the
> >so-called christians of this country are adamant about keeping it as
> >far away from any kids as they can manage.  They call it a
> >'recruiting' organization.  As if Xianity isn't?
> 
> >> [...]
> 
> >Do you oppose youth groups for atheist and/or gay teens?
> 
> My answer is of course no, as I stated earlier in this post.  I 
> suspect it could be very useful for persons such as yourself, probably
> more useful than the BSA program.  Good luck.

Then I have no quarrel with you on this point.  I have no desire to
interfere with the BSA's ideals concerning the youth who participate.
I will interfere with the plans of people who think that an
organization like the BSA, which includes teachings about god, is the
only kind of program appropriate for all youngsters, and who seek to
stop the efforts of those who think otherwise.

In spite of being an Eagle Scout, I did manage to learn a respect for
the value of diversity and inclusiveness.  This is what Honor and
Reverence mean to me.


[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us
[] Long Beach, California
[] DESQview/X:  turns your Sun into a PC peripheral.