HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sierra@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Sue Sierra)
Subject: Re: A contribution for the FAQ: SHOES
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:47:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


I appreciate this posting very much - I'd just been starting to wish I hadn't
thrown out the shoe review issue of Runners' World.  I think, however, that
before this goes in the FAQ it should be edited so that those shoes which
come only in men's models are clearly marked so.  Currently the women-only
shoes are marked off (and rightly so), but the men-only shoes are not
distinguished from those available in both men's and women's models.  Women
are not a "special interest" running group any more than men are.

Sue Sierra
sierra@cs.oberlin.edu
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: walking/running (was Distinctions)
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:42:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.224536.680@mcs.kent.edu>, sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:

|> difference between running/jogging and walking/race-walking.  This has
|> to do with the stride.

By definition, walking has both feet on the ground for a portion of the
stride, i.e., the number of feet on the ground varies between 1 and 2,
while running involves jumping thru the air, i.e., the number of feet on
the ground varies between 0 and 1.

In formal race-walking, the rules generally also require that the knee 
must lock during the part of the stride where one leg is in the middle of
its time on the ground and the body is right over that leg.  Frank Shorter
once criticized race walking as a competition, since the winner turns
out to be the person who can come closest to violating the rules as judged
by whoever is the official of the day.

Amongst all the silly definitions for jogging, I once read a major guru
attempt a serious technical definition.  (I think it was Joe Henderson)
This definition is the relative time spent with a foot on the ground versus
jumping thru the air, and 50/50 is the threshold.

-- 
Gordon K. Chace                                 voice (612) 482-6524
Control Data Systems, Inc.                      fax   (612) 482-2791
4201 N. Lexington, Arden Hills, MN, USA 55126   email gordon.chace@cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
From: tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au (tarmstro)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Plantar f: a question
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:28:19 GMT

With all this talk of PF on the net I have manage to fall foul of this
compliant (or I think so, more on that later). I went through the typical
stages of stiffness in the morning (that gradually became pain!), and like
the fool I am continued to run 110 miles/week. Finally enough was enough so
I stopped and now swim/`run' in pool and bike. However, I've bben to physios
and iced/massaged and have not had any improvement (well, much anyhow). My
pain came *after* getting orthotics to help cure knee achilles problems (which
the orthotics did clear up). I can't figure if it is the orthotics or shoes
that caused my problem. The injury feels more like a bruise on the inside
of my heel. The pain never went along the route of the fascia, just got worse
in the same spot. If I wear shoes with a hard medial log (to stop over 
pronation) I get pain. Softer compound shoes do not hurt as much. My podiartristis altering the offending orthotic so as it will not pressure the spot on my 
heal. Question 1 is: Now that I'm hurt, even running with the improved orthotic
is still going to hurt and cause more damage??? Question2: my doctor thinks
that the complaint may in fact be bursitis caused by the large build up
under my arch/heel (for pronation correction), anyone help tell the difference? 

Sorry to bring this thread up again, but I'm going mad in the pool, not to
mention that bloody bicycle!!!

Tim
tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au
From: wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Minimum age for Marathon?
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:35:25 GMT
	<1993Jan25.044210.4599@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
Reply-To: wolf@first.gmd.de
Distribution: rec
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin
In-reply-to: sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu's message of 25 Jan 93 04:42:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.044210.4599@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Sunil Dixit) writes:


   I don't know if I would agree with Paul here, Alison.  I'm 19, and have run
   a marathon, which I trained extensively for (50 miles per week or so).  The
   actual run wasn't too bad, it was the after effects.  Our bones, though
   fully developed, haven't peaked in their strength yet, and won't for about
   five or six years.  Besides, we're nowhere near our aerobic peak either,
   which usually occurs around 28 to 30 years of age.  There's no need to push,
   because we have plenty of time.  I've seen some really good middie runners
   wrecked by pushing to hard and too fast on a huge and *unnecessary* run. 
   One moron ran 30 miles in practice one day, and 20 miles the NEXT!  Tore all
   sorts of important things, and can't run more than a mile now without
   sweating from pain.  Anyway, I wouldn't recommend it.

   Sunil Dixit
   U of Rochester (sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu)

Congratulations!
No joke, I'm really impressed by the wittness of an 19 years old !
When I was at your age (20 years ago) I was by no means so reasonably.
I know some runners who tried too much to early and now
are completele burned out. Most of the top marathoners of the former
GDR -except Czierpinski - made this fault, of course pushed by their
trainers.
BTW. I run marathons since 15 years, my PR is from 1990 (2:27 h) and
I hope to improve it this/next year at age of 40.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science



Newsgroups: rec.running
From: gthome@bulldogs.austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: running barefoot -- was (Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal))
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:18:10 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.17e by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: gthome@dss1.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Austin

In <1993Jan26.052826.25334@math.ucla.edu> getachew@yosemite.math.ucla.edu (getachew hagos) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.150516.21970@kth.se> TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE writes:
>>In article <1k0strINNnq7@savoy.cc.williams.edu>, Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:
>>
>>>     No one has yet replied to my question about the physical
>>>benefits of spending childhood barefoot.  Am I completely off the
>>>wall?
>>
>> okay, I'll bite.. again...
>> it is believed that if you're very active when you're a little kid your
>>body will get more tolerant to stress. The kids in Kenya run all their life
>>from they're small kids, so their bodies are very well adapted to stress,
>>and therefore they can train harder, while most people in the western world
>>sit and get weak, go everywhere by car, and so on...
>> As for running bare-foot, I've only read an article in Runner's World that
>>it's bad for your feet to run with shoes...
>>
Removed lines about Ethiopia vs. Kenyan runners..

The real advantage to running around barefoot is strength.  Living daily
without shoes would help balance and strength of the athlete.  Many runners
in Great Britain actually train barefoot on sand tracks to reap the
benefits of having strong feet/calves.  It is very important to have
strong feet/calves to maintain an active footplant over long distances.

What I mean by active footplant is the forefoot hits the ground first,
not the heel.  When your heel hits the ground first you are effectively
'braking', and slowing yourself down.  If your foot lands underneath you
and your forefoot hits first, you do not slow down and can immediately
push off into your next stride.

If you are wondering about what I'm saying get a tape of Seb Coe/Steve Cram/
Steve Ovett/Carl Lewis/Linford Christie and watch where their foot actually
hits the ground at what part of their foot hits first.

=============================================================================
| Gerry Thome              | t/l  678-2256   fax : t/l  678-8597 | Internal |
| IBM-Austin               | (512)838-2256         (512)838-8597 | Zip 9132 |
| OS/2 DCE RPC Development | 11400 Burnet Rd, Austin, TX 78758   | MSU '89  |
| I don't speak for IBM in any way...                            | Go Dogs! |
=============================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jerry@bertie (Jerry Shurman)
Subject: Re: Yet another ITB question?
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:17:05 GMT

<Lots of stuff deleted>

Here's my IT story for anyone interested.

After years of knee pain and injuries and three
knee operations, I got diagnosed by a sports chiropractor
as having way tight ITBs and sent to a massage therapist.  
The results were *amazing*.  I've gone without injury since
then (three years now), increased my mileage and held
it steady at 55 a week, dropped my PRs way down, etc.

This masseur does something called deep tissue massage.
It hurts like holy hell at first, causing one to scream
out loud and thrash about on the table like a gaffed salmon, 
but after several sessions one's muscles start to loosen up 
and get used to being smoothed out, and it actually feels 
rather pleasant.  Really.  I usually fall asleep during
the process now if I don't have any big new knots in there.

It took about six sessions (30 or 60 minutes each) to loosen
things up enough to get me running again, and since then I've
kept injury-free by going in for maintenance every two to
four weeks.

Anyway, I recommend it highly.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu ()
Subject: Marathons in So. Cal.
Originator: rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:37:35 PST


Does anyone know of any Marathons or half-marathons or large 10ks with
fast fields in southern California this year, especially before June?
Thanks.
From: dwp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: More thoughts about Kenyans (no genetics)
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:49:00 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

After doing some thinking over the weekend, I've come up with some other
observations my Kenyans are better distance runners.

1) American coaches seem rather concerned about making sure their athletes
get enough rest.  Kenyans seem to be talking about running harder.  Is there
really any surprise as to who runs faster?

If you think back to successful American runners, guys like Shorter,Ryan,
Prefontaine, Salazar, and Slaney (pre-'84 Olympics) come to mind.  None
of these guys struck me as the types who sat around worrying about getting
enough rest.  Maybe we're over doing the rest thing?

2) There seem to be a zillion Kenyans between 20-25 running amazing times, but
few above 25.  Maybe there hard training gets quick, sensational results,
but is hard to sustain over a long career.

3) Without knowing much about what life is like in Kenya, I would guess,
given the economic differences, that growing up in Kenya is harder, and
requires more "hard work".  I get the feeling Moses Kiptanui didn't grow
up watching MTV and playing Nintendo.


In an atmosphere where distance running commands a lot of respect, I think
their hard work goes a long way.  I've discovered that about 90% of distance
running is hard work.  American runners, caught up in taking too much rest,
and having "softer" lives, no wonder we're getting beat by the Kenyans.
Until the U.S. has runners the likes of Salazar, Prefontaine ect.,
(And I definitely think Todd Williams, Bob Kennedy and posssibly some others
fit that mold.)  we'll continue to get beat.

                                -dp
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stores@maths.tcd.ie (Alison Musgrave)
Subject: Minimum age for Marathon?
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:47:56 GMT


At what age do most people start running the marathon? I have always wanted to  run it ,but have been told not to as I am only 17! Having read about the twins  from America who ran the marathon at a very young age ,I would be interested to know if it effected their bones/growth in any way ? At the moment I run middle  distance.
         Thanks,
                Alison.
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:19:39 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu

In article <FKITTRED.93Jan23200913@spchp13.BBN.COM> fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:

> I think this is complete hogwash:
>
>1) The designation "Bantu", "Nilotic", etc. is most accurate when
>   applied to language groups, not genetic types. 
>
>2) the considerable interbreeding of
>   different tribal groups in Kenya 
>
>3) The genetic argument for athletic performance is old, but quite weak.
>   
>
>4) Their argument is inherently racist.
>
>In my estimation, the fundamental reason the Kenyans are good runners
>is economic. 

(Much has been deleted from above)

	We could continue the discussion of (1) and (2) above on 
soc.culture.african.  If you'll reread my original post, you will see
that in terms of running, our points are identical (except for (4) 
above, with which I disagree): genetics plays at most a small role 
in explaining the difference between Kenyan and American distance
runners, and the possibility of fame and fortune from becoming a 
world-class runner engenders tremendous efforts by young Kenyans.

	No one has yet replied to my question about the physical 
benefits of spending childhood barefoot.  Am I completely off the
wall?

	Waiting to get shot down again . . . 
>
>Kwahari,
>fletcher

Kwa heri, na labda tutaonana baadaye.

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: bloeser@tron.kom.tuwien.ac.at (Friedrich Bloeser)
Subject: Netiquette (was Re: High-Tech Vitamins)
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:47:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.000646.20015@watson.ibm.com> dvfreese@freese.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Doug Freese) writes:
>In article <C15LuK.2Hz@cscns.com> mavihoja@cscns.com (Michael D. Beatty) writes:
>>Keywords: 
>>
>>Greetings All:
>>     Do you remember about a month and a helf ago, when some clumsy, 
>>blind, ignorant oaf allegedly abused the use of the listserv and 
>>asked for help from you folks on methods of getting an exciting line 
>>
>>   ... (lot of stuff deleted) ...
>>
>>Please contact me if you you would like to try them, or hear more 
>>about the potential business possibilities.
>>Or, to just discuss the chemistry!
>>
>>        Thanks for being there......           Michael Beatty
>>
>
>I think it would be interesting to cross post this to sci.med.nutrition
>and solicit some responses. 
>
>
>
>-- 
>--------The race is not to the swift but to those who keep on running -----
>Doug Freese                 (The views expressed here are entirely mine)     
>I.B.M. Corp.                email: dvfreese@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com 
>Neighborhood Rd. Kingston N.Y. 12401 


Hello Doug (and everybody else whom it may concern)!

Besides all the technical stuff that I teach those folks that attend my
courses on email and news here at the university, I tell them to think
a little, before they post articles to newsgroups. To think, whether their
article really is of value to the whole news-community or just to the author
of the article to be answered. Another thing they should do is not always to
include the original mail or article as a whole, but only those lines that
they refer to in their answer.

I am sorry that you have not observed both of these considerations.
After repeating the whole long article you state that this article should
be posted also to another newsgroup, obviously a suggestion to the author
of the original article.

Please tell him directly the next time and do net waste bandwidth and the time
of those reading this group. Perhaps you could take a look into the group
"news.announce.newusers", there is a periodically posted article with the
subject "Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette".

-- 
Friedrich Bloeser                        Phone: (+43 1) 588 01 - 5811      
Communications Group                     Fax:   (+43 1) 587 42 11          
Computer Center                                                    
Technical University Vienna, Austria     e-mail: bloeser@edvz.tuwien.ac.at
From: v070rajv@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Matthew Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Is running with shin splints okay?
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <C1HF4r.L70@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer) writes...
> 
>	Thanks to all who have posted responses to my questions.  I have
>abother one.  If a person has shin splints, is it okay/safe to run.
>Assumming that you are doing exercises to strengthen the muscles on the
>front of the legs, can you still run?  Also, for these strengthening
>exercises, how long should one expect it to take for the exercises to
>have an affect combatting the shin splints.
> 
>Magdi N. Azer
>magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu

I have always thought that one of the only ways to deal with shin splints was
to run through them. Granted one should not be doing killer workout while
afflicted but easy distance runs, on especially soft surfaces to reduce impact
with the ground, will help those muscles develop...



 *****************************************
 * Matthew Lewis -- University of Buffalo*
 *     Email: v070rajv.cc.buffalo.edu    *
 * "dreamers learn to steer by the stars"*
 *****************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:14:19 GMT

	I think it's great Clinton runs regularly, but it seems he needs
to change a couple of things.  1)Stop visiting McDonald's so much after the
run!  2) Change his running clothes.  The other day they showed him
running with either a black t-shirt that came down to his knees or he
was wearing a black t-shirt and black shorts over a pair of normal grey
sweatpants.  Goofy.  Though I couldn't picture him wearing tights.  And
why doesn't Hilary join him?  She'd look good in a pair of tights :*)

	While on the subject, what kind of runner was Bush?  They showed
him occasionaly being hounded by the press while he was running around.  Do
we have any competition times on this guy?

Thanks for the time,
Eric
-- 
       --    O          The thrill is                   Eric J. Lorenzo
     ---   </\_      not just in winning,       lorenzo@Rintintin.Colorado.EDU
   ----  -\/\         but in the courage                  also @UCSU
      ---   /_         to join the race    -?               & @Spot
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:44:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa

 
 
> 3) The genetic argument for athletic performance is old, but quite weak.
>    At this point there is an enormous body of evidence which suggests that
>    athletic performance has no racial component.  I would point out
>    that the genetic variation between individuals in one of these groups is
>    statistically as great as the variation between individuals of different
>    groups.


 I have read the Runners World article and was surprised by several of their
conclusions.  However I would like very much to see this 'enormous body 
of evicdence' which states that there is no racial component.

 
> 4) Their argument is inherently racist.It is racist because we wouldn't even
>    be having this discussion if the athletes involved were not African.

	This is probably not true. Just to ask  the Question 'Are there
differences between groups of humans?' is not racist although it certainly is
not politically correct.  The observation that certain groups are, on the
average, taller, shorter, heavier, and perhaps faster, is also not racist.
Trying to answer why this might be, whether cultural or biological is also 
not racist, though perhaps the interpretaion of the answers could lead into 
racism.  The answers themselves are just right or wrong.

>  Yet there is an equal genetic distance between the
>  French and the Germans as between the East Africans and West Africans.

 If this is true it is very interesting. Runners World certainly missed here!



Other points that The Article seemed to miss:

	1) that almost all the top sprinters from the world for the last 15
	 years come from or train in the sunbelt states of the US (CA,Texas,etc)
	 (this includes many forgein runners). In other words there seems to be
	 an environmental factor at work here.
 
	2) I think there have been less than 5 whites ever to run under 10.0
	  for 100m (if any).  And I've heven't seen any whites run under
	  44.2 for 400m
	
	3) What about asian runners???

	4) One thing I have noticed watching world class runners the last 
	 several years is that most have a very pronounced curvature in their
	 backs.  I don't mean big buttocks,  but a curvature that thrusts
	the chest forward and hips back, it doesn't seem to matter how
	muscular the person is.  This crosses all racial/cultural groups 
	and is true for both sexes.  (It's sort of like the new dynamic 
	way they've depicted 2-legged dinosaurs, with the hips high and
	the chest forward).  Is this curvature a prerequist to being a top
	runner or do the top runners develop the curvature.  Or is the
	curvature irrelavant, and I'm just babbling?

These are just some questions.  And observations.
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 22:08:33 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


In article <OYSTEING.93Jan23113055@garm.idt.unit.no> oysteing@garm.idt.unit.no (Oystein Groevlen) writes:
> Did not most American slaves  come from
>Western  Africa? This is  like saying  that I  am  not  more genetical
>related to a Swede than to a Greek.
>
>I  have often wondered if it is only a  coincidence that while Eastern
>Africans  are  good at  long  distances,  both  Western  Africans  and
>American Blacks are good at shorter distances.  I am not claiming that
>the reason for this  is genetic. It could also be cultural reasons for
>this.
>

	The following is my understanding -- please correct me if I am
wrong:
	Most Africans, including virtually all West Africans are Bantu 
peoples.  Kalenjins, the tribal group to which Chelimo, Rono, Boit, 
Keino, Kiptanui, et al belong, is Bantu, and thus they are (distantly)
related to the Bantu people of West Africa (and thus to most American
blacks).  The Luo and Turkana, to which Ondieki and Ereng belong, 
respectively, are not Bantu, and thus the Kalenjins are, if anything, 
more closely related to the West Africans than Ondieki and Ereng.

	Waiting for corrections . . .

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: Henry.Halff@p932.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Halff)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP