HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jordan B Pollack)
Subject: Re: Children's Comp. Sci. education
Originator: pollack@dendrite.cis.ohio-state.edu
Reply-To: pollack@cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
	<17meeoINNc0f@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Aug31.144932.3560@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:48:28 GMT

>The puzzles are superimposed on centimeter graph paper (I can post Cuisenaire
>Co.'s address if anybody wants it). The recommended ages are ages 9-17,
>although at age 6 she's having no trouble knocking out the beginner
>puzzles.

Please post the address for Cusinaire, which I might otherwise have
mistaken for a food processor company:)

Here is a discription of the "rainbow" puzzle I invented for my
daughter when she was 2:

2  5" red sticks        in a 10" slot
3  3" orange sticks      in a 9" slot
2  4" yellow sticks      in a 8" slot
4  2" green sticks       in a 8" slot
1  7" blue Stick         in a 7" slot
1  6" indigo stick       in a 6" slot
5  1" violet sticks      in a 5" slot

While she didnt learn addition (as I intended), she did learn both a
sort of conservation of length through random assembly of the puzzle,
and also the order of colors when she mastered the "right way."



-- 
Jordan Pollack                            Assistant Professor
CIS Dept/OSU                              Laboratory for AI Research
2036 Neil Ave                             Email: pollack@cis.ohio-state.edu
Columbus, OH 43210                        Phone: (614)292-4890 (then * to fax)
Xref: sparky sci.edu:936 alt.folklore.science:3168
From: mspencer@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: sci.edu,alt.folklore.science
Subject: Re: 2nd law -- Marxist science
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:32:05 -0300
Reply-To: mspencer@quasar.sba.dal.ca
Distribution: world
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Aug26.023245.11738@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz>, 
      ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:
> I recently heard from a friend that some universities in what used to be
> the Eastern block did not teach the second law of thermodynamics to
> their students, because that was seen to collide with Marxist philosophy
... [text omitted]

There are several books about the Lysenko "affair", the repression of
Mendelian genetics ("Weissmanism-[somthing]ism) in favor of Lamarkian
principles.  Related to this is _The Strange Case of the Midwife Toad_
(very well-known author, but I forget his name...) about a biologist
named Kammerer with god-faith data appearing to support Lamarkism, a
murky controversy around him and his subsequent suicide.

Also, there was an article in Isis 15 or more years ago about
suppression of Pauling's resonance theory in organic chemistry because
resonance structures were idealizations, cotradicting "Marxist Realism".

Never heard anything about suppression of the 2nd law, though.
---
Mike Spencer
mspencer@quasar.sba.dal.ca
mspencer@athena.mit.edu
Xref: sparky sci.edu:943 comp.lang.logo:190
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: sci.edu,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Children's Comp. Sci. education
Date: 28 Aug 1992 18:09:33 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

dal3@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (dale.e.parson) writes:
>One of the difficulties I've found with Logo at these ages is that it
>requires symbol crunching. I'd like a Logo with a graphical front end that
>let's the kids capture template procedures by moving the turtle around
>with a mouse, but I haven't had time to do it (check comp.lang.logo if
>you're unfamiliar with Logo).

People who use Logo with very young children often set up a simple procedure
that allows the child to "drive" the turtle with single keystrokes.  For
example:

to instant
make "char readchar
if :char = "F [fd 10]
if :char = "B [bk 10]
if :char = "L [lt 15]
if :char = "R [rt 15]
if :char = "U [penup]
if :char = "D [pendown]
instant
end

This version uses the letters of the alphabet as mnemonics for the Logo
commands.  For even younger children you might just use the bottom row
of the keyboard and attach pictures to the keys.  For slightly older
children you could add a numeric repetition feature so that, for example,
typing "6F" would move forward six times as far as just "F".
Xref: sparky sci.edu:962 comp.lang.logo:202
From: smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.edu,comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: Children's Comp. Sci. education
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:42:10 GMT
Organization: SCTC

chuck@ksr.com (Chuck Shavit) writes:

>Why would you want to teach Logo to very young children?  As I understand
>it, Logo is a tool for developing math and programming skills.  But at the
>level described above, it seems to me that there is very little educational
>(math and programming) value to a session in which the very young kid ...

I'm not sure what passes for "very young." My daughter is going on 8
and I'm trying to find a way to get her started in programming as a
skill. I posted a query a month or so ago asking about materials
suitable for her age level and came up with nothing. Actually, the
best thing I've seen is that LOGO shorthand function that prompted
your questions.

I see that function as providing a bridge for her to understand LOGO
primitives. Once she's learned what forward, left, right, and so on
do, then I can talk about composing and saving a sequence of them.
Then about iteration. Then maybe variables.

I think the essential abstraction of programming is the notion of
producing a sequence independent of its execution. Does anyone
remember Big Trak? It was a toy tank-like vehicle from about a dozen
years ago.  It had a keypad and accepted 4 LOGO-like direction
commands.  You'd type in a sequence of commands, hit the GO button,
and it would follow the command sequence you typed.  That teaches the
essence of programming as far as I'm concerned. I almost bought one
since I knew I'd want one someday to teach my kids what programming is.

>Maybe a more general question is what is the optimal age (or skill level,
>if you like), if any, to introduce Logo to kids?

It depends on the kid. If the kid sounds curious about programming and
has basic reading skills, why not? Some kids probably won't be
interested.  It just won't fit their preferences.

>One last question: did any of the netters have any bad experience in
>exposing a kid to Logo before he or she was ready for it?

The kiss-of-death would probably be to treat introductory programming
like piano practice.

Rick.
smith@sctc.com        arden hills, minnesota
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Children's Comp. Sci. education
From: lebowitz@krypton.Mankato.MSUS.EDU (Robert J. Lebowitz)
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:43:34
Distribution: sci
Organization: Mankato State University

On the suggestion of a friend, I've begun investigating the possibility of 
offering courses to 3-6 year-olds on how to use a computer.  Part of the idea
is to expand upon the success of the IBM program Writing to Read which dev-\
eloped the idea that kids whose mechanical skills are still less developed 
and are unable to write properly can still acquire good spelling, writing and 
reading skills through the use of a computer keyboard.  

Can anyone suggest any publications that discuss an appropriate curriculum
for kids in this age group?  Please e-mail and post your responses to this
group.
--
Robert J. Lebowitz           Internet         lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University     VOX              (507) 389-2540
Mankato MN 56002-8400
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin)
Subject: Thesaurus Linguae Latinae
Followup-To: sci.classics
Organization: Nullus
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:08:42 GMT

In article <l9g9pcINNfi7@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:

> Thanks for your informative reply.  It raises a somewhat different
> follow-on question.  Is there any corpus of machine-readable Latin,
> comparable to the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae?  That would be a great
> help in tracking down issues such as this.  (I know there are
> reference grammars; but reference grammars, like dictionaries, are
> digested forms of a corpus.  Sometimes it is useful to consult the
> corpus itself.)
> 
> -30-
> Bob


Yes, there is. It is put out by the Packard Humanities Institute. You can
find them at;

            Packard Humanities Institute
            300 Second Strret, Suite 201
            Los Altos, CA 94022
            Tel (415)-948-0150
            Bitnet: xb.m07@stanford
            FAX: (415)-948-5793

The texts are on a CD-ROM that can be accessed by most any personal
computer equiped with a standard CD-ROM drive (PC/Mac/Unix). The CD-ROM
format is identical to the TLG (.txt files and .idt files) and any software
that can access the TLG should be able to handle the TLL. The CD-ROM
contains most of the Latin texts through the second century AD plus other
assorted Latin texts.

Mike Martin
aardvark@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov
From: mcdowell@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Jonathan McDowell)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Praenominal trivia and chronological matters
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:50:55 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA


Forgive me for asking a 'look it up in the
reference section' question, but I'm not familiar
enough with the field to know where to look.

Can anyone tell me what the Roman praenomen 
used by the Fabii and abbreviated 'N.' stands for?
 (example: N. Fabius Pictor, cos. 266 BC)
Where could I look something like that up? (My
Cassell's dictionary gives most of the praenominal
abbreviations but not that one).

For my own amusement, I'm studying the Roman Republican
Calendar (as part of an effort to give my astronomical
calendar dating software a classical education).
Can anyone recommend a recent (post Degrassi 1947) 
article or book discussing the consular Fasti?
I'm particularly interested in finding out what's
known about the early 4th century BC where the Capitoline
lists have a gap, and also about the Imperial period.

I also came across a book by Brind-Amour called
(I think) 'Le Calendrier Romain Republicain' (or
something close). Can anyone familar with this work
comment on Brind-Amour's reconstruction, particularly
of the intercalations? A lot of it seemed pretty
reasonable to me, but it seemed to get weak in places.

 
 Maxime gratias ago in advance for any advice,

		Jonathan McDowell

 .-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
 |  Jonathan McDowell                 |  phone : (617) 495-7176                |
 |  Harvard-Smithsonian Center for    |                                        |
 |   Astrophysics                     |                                        |
 |  60 Garden St, MS4                 |                                        |
 |  Cambridge MA 02138                |  inter : mcdowell@urania.harvard.edu   |
 |  USA                               |  inter : mcdowell@cfa.harvard.edu      |
 '-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'

   
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: darragh@maths.tcd.ie (Darragh J. Delany)
Subject: Re: Use of Roman Numerals
Keywords: Roman Numerals
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:10:51 GMT

ibacon@seamis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ian Bacon) writes:

>I'm sure I probably learned this when I was still at school, but for the 
>life of me, I can't remember how to express really large numbers in Roman 
>Numerals. For example, how would I write a million in Roman? Or even ten
>thousand or a hundred thousand?
>I'd appreciate any pointers.

To indicate a multiple of 1000 place a bar over the relevant numerals
hence             ____
                  MCXVDCXXII     = 1,115,622

Darragh J Delany
Trinity College, Dublin
-- 
Dj.

ESS students don't have plans, silly
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Habemus ad dominum
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:02:52 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: wmporter@jetson.uh.edu's message of Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:33:00 GMT

In article <22AUG199205335354@jetson.uh.edu> wmporter@jetson.uh.edu (William M. Porter) writes:

   Bob Ingria (ingria@BBN.COM) suggests that "agnus" may be "attracted" nominative
   case to go with the relative pronoun. Not possible. When an antecedent is drawn
   into the relative clause, it almost always follows the relative adjective that
   modifies it (so we should have "qui agnus" rather than "agnus qui").
   Furthermore, this only occurs when the noun so attracted is governed by some
   other word in the surrounding clause, e.g. "legistine quos libros misi?" (for
   "Did you read the books that I sent?")

Thanks for your informative reply.  It raises a somewhat different
follow-on question.  Is there any corpus of machine-readable Latin,
comparable to the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae?  That would be a great
help in tracking down issues such as this.  (I know there are
reference grammars; but reference grammars, like dictionaries, are
digested forms of a corpus.  Sometimes it is useful to consult the
corpus itself.)

-30-
Bob

Making rationalist use of empiricist means since 1990!
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Habemus ad dominum
Date: 24 Aug 92 15:16:52 GMT
Followup-To: sci.classics
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <aardvark-210892150453@146.154.24.88>, aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin) writes:
> The problem is also a bit more interesting when you consider both pieces,
> the Gloria (Doxologia Maior) and the Angus Dei, were written before
                                       ^^^^^
> punctuation standards. The Gloria has been part of the western liturgy
> since the 5th century, the Angus Dei, the 7th. I am not certain when the
                             ^^^^^
> Angus Dei was composed, but it was early. 
  ^^^^^

Hmmm... "Angus Dei". Cow of God, perhaps?
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil)
Subject: Re: FAQ? (was: Thesaurus Linguae Latinae)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:38:41 GMT

claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>In article <aardvark-270892080011@146.154.24.88> aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin) writes:
>>In article <l9g9pcINNfi7@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your informative reply.  It raises a somewhat different
>>> follow-on question.  Is there any corpus of machine-readable Latin,
>>> comparable to the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae?  That would be a great
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>Yes, there is. It is put out by the Packard Humanities Institute. You can
>>find them at;
>			.
>			.
>			.
>How's the sci.classics FAQ coming along?
>I haven't seen it yet, but it appears to
>me that there's plenty of appropriate
>material.

The FAQ is coming along.  :-)  Actually, I have a ton of stuff that's
ready to be thrown together in a big text file so that we can edit it.
One reason I've held off is due to the summer lull on the Net.  Things
got really slow and I wasn't getting much feedback.  I figured that
once school started up things would get more active around here.

And it is true that things are getting quite a bit more active around
here so it's probably time for me to be getting that text file thrown 
together.  

Sharon O'Neil
oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu 


Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: FAQ? (was: Thesaurus Linguae Latinae)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:09:13 GMT

In article <aardvark-270892080011@146.154.24.88> aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin) writes:
>In article <l9g9pcINNfi7@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your informative reply.  It raises a somewhat different
>> follow-on question.  Is there any corpus of machine-readable Latin,
>> comparable to the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae?  That would be a great
			.
			.
			.
>Yes, there is. It is put out by the Packard Humanities Institute. You can
>find them at;
			.
			.
			.
How's the sci.classics FAQ coming along?
I haven't seen it yet, but it appears to
me that there's plenty of appropriate
material.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Habemus ad dominum
Date: 24 Aug 92 15:10:43 GMT
Followup-To: sci.classics
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <aardvark-200892110652@146.154.24.90>, aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin) writes:
> 
>> As for "Agnus Dei", I think the answer must be that this is
>> medieval/ecclesiastical Latin and simply doesn't follow the classical rule for
>> vocatives in the second declension.
> 
> Actualy, I would propose a much simpler and more 'classical' explanation.
> The Romans, being the terse people they were, often dropped the verb from
> their sentances. Angus being nominative requires it to be a subject. If we
> supply the missing verb 'to be' we arrive at;
> 
> Angus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi.....
> 
> You are the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world...
> 
The trouble with this is that "miserere nobis" and "dona nobis pacem" both have
to be imperative, not indicative, so adding a dropped "es" does not make sense.

> 
> Which seems to make good sense in both languages. There are plenty of other
> examples of the missing 'to be' in the Liturgy. The phrase, 'Verbum
> Domini', after the readings is an example. This, until recently, was
> rendered in English as 'This is the Word of the Lord'.
> 
And still is, in the Church of England.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Praenominal trivia and chronological matters
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 19:34:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.135055.20365@head-cfa.harvard.edu>, mcdowell@head-cfa (Jonathan McDowell) writes:
>Forgive me for asking a 'look it up in the reference section' question, but
>I'm not familiar enough with the field to know where to look.
>
>Can anyone tell me what the Roman praenomen used by the Fabii and abbreviated
>'N.' stands for?  (example: N. Fabius Pictor, cos. 266 BC) Where could I look
>something like that up? (My Cassell's dictionary gives most of the praenominal
>abbreviations but not that one).

Numerius.

Found in Allen&Greenough, _New Latin Grammar_, under "Praenomen."
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: shem@zombie.oulu.fi (Janne Himanka)
Subject: Re: Thesaurus Linguae Latinae
Followup-To: sci.classics
Reply-To: shem@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Tilde's home bakery
	<l97t04INN6mu@news.bbn.com> <22AUG199205335354@jetson.uh.edu>
	<l9g9pcINNfi7@news.bbn.com> <aardvark-270892080011@146.154.24.88>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:46:40 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:08:42 GMT, aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin) said:

	Michael> In article <l9g9pcINNfi7@news.bbn.com>,
	Michael> ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:

> Is there any corpus of machine-readable Latin,
> comparable to the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae? 

	Michael> Yes, there is. It is put out by the Packard
	Michael> Humanities Institute.

This is very interesting. However, this led me to think about the
original Thesaurus Linguae Latinae, that wonderful gobbler of shelves.
Is the work still in progress? I think the last fascicle I saw was 
"p-palpebra". If anyone should be selling hisher copy, there's no need
to look further. I have the fascicles embracing approximately the
alphabet "e" and I yearn to know how the plot continues...

-Janne

--
      Verba iactas           + shem@phoenix.oulu.fi TKOP-HJH@FINOU.BITNET
      ut imber aquas         + Oulu University, Dept. of Library & Inf. Sc.
      at cave! vacca volat.  + shem@nic.funet.fi
From: ibacon@seamis1.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ian Bacon)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Use of Roman Numerals
Summary: large numbers in Roman numerals
Keywords: Roman Numerals
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:14:36 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

I'm sure I probably learned this when I was still at school, but for the 
life of me, I can't remember how to express really large numbers in Roman 
Numerals. For example, how would I write a million in Roman? Or even ten
thousand or a hundred thousand?
I'd appreciate any pointers.
-- Ian Bacon --
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Classics Index
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:47:04 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide


Does a subject index exist for classics texts?

What I have in mind is to be able to look up subjects that relate to
modern issues such as: women, sex, eating habits, abortion etc etc
and then to find references in both obscure and common classical texts.

Can this be done? Is there a CD ROM maybe?
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987)
Subject: Re: Air conditioning not a luxury....
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 09:25:04 GMT

Bo Curry (curry@hplred.HP.COM) wrote:
:  |hinz@picard.med.ge.com (Dave Hinz) :
:  |Bo,
:  |
:  |I have no desire to go and wallow through and do a point-by-point analysis of
:  |your post.  I read it once, and shudder at the thought of reading it again.
:  |
: 
: Apology accepted.

Apology?  More like nausea.

:  |Let me, instead, repeat my point of view.  I think any further flames
:                    ^^^^^^
:  |should be sent through e-mail, as I'm sure that not alot of people
:  |are interested in the drivel.

Apparently you didn't get the hint about e-mail?

:  |1> from information that I am comfortable beleiving (SAAB engineering data
:  |   manuals, for one), air conditioning takes less gasoline (in my cars' case)
:  |   than open windows, to cool the car, at the speeds I, and I suspect you,
:  |   drive.
(my stuff deleted for brevity)
: 
: Ah, a clear statement of your position, if a rather liberal use of the
: word "repeat". If you'd posted this initially, instead of the ill-considered
: personal attack you actually posted, you would have saved us both a lot of
: grief.

Ah, so you're saying above that I retracted my statements, but you're saying
here that you agree with them?  My, you're quite an inconsistant fellow.  
Have you ever considered a career in politics?

: Bo Curry

--

Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
hinz@picard.med.ge.com