HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Better off under Japanese? (Was Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10)
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:57:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <1992Oct15.172807.3359@odin.corp.sgi.com> (Yu Chang) writes:
>In article <1bj56mINNas6@agate.berkeley.edu> (Bo-Yi Lin) writes:
>|> 	Hey, but you do have to give the Japanese credit for building a good
>|> infrastructure in Taiwan (albeit for military purposes).  When the KMT took
>|> over they sorta undid what the Japanese built.  Kaohsiong used to have really
>|> wide boulevards until old man Chiang came over; now all we have are traffic
>|> congestions.
>
>What credit?
>They destroyed everything when they left,
>took everything they could and
>buried everything they could not destroy or take back.

>What happened to those "real-wide blvds" of 40 years ago?
>
Well, the city of Kaosiung has been expanded many times bigger, but the old
city remains unchanged. Perhaps it was so wide for tricycles and bicycles,
it is certainly not too wide for too many cars. People seem to miss the
cycles so much, but hate cars because the cars jam the streets as Bo-yi
indicated. When I went there in 60s, it was hard to see cars in the new city,
now it is covered with high-rise buildings. Hey, people feel better for a
GNP $200 under Japanese, but not too good for a GNP $10K.
From: stan@sabaac.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Andrew Staniszewski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: working in China?
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:40:56 GMT
Reply-To: staniszewski@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation

Hi,
I am an electrical engineer/cs person working on ee-cad deelopement, I would like
to find a job in China that would make use of my abilities, and that would last
2-5 years. My main intrest in going would be getting a chance to learn about 
chinese culture. Would anyone be able to give me information about looking for
work in china??

please respond to 

staniszewski@mayo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: smaa@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shaw-Chang Maa)
Subject: Re: Remember it's a card of shame (Re: The Psychology of New Immigrant
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:44:09 GMT

     I have only two comments about what you said.
     First, do not confuse the cause and effect. No one arrange the
June 4 event so that US may pass an Act like this. People who get Green
Card via this approach not because of the blood of other people.
     Second, although there do exist some opportunists, it is not
necessary to humiliate everyone who plan to apply for Green Card through
this approach.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: chyang@anaphora.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang)
Subject: Re: Oct. 1 or Oct. 10, which is the more important day for China?
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:18:08 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: chyang@anaphora.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Oct13.100757.3827@vax.muskingum.edu>, ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
> In article <Hp6-S0=@engin.umich.edu>, chyang@litotes.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
> 
> > 	But I think the old Chiang is still to be blamed for the bad
> > name KMT has today.  KMT was a good party with good intension and 
> > has a strong intellectual following.  That is before Dr. Sun Yat Sen
> > passed away.  After that.  Well... it's history. 
> 
> 
> 	** Is it fair to criticize emperors of Ching Dynasty being
> 	   not democracy? It think it is not fair to judge Old Chiang
> 	   by modern political standard either. 
> 
> 	   I would say, if it was not Old Chiang, Taiwan would not exist
> 	   as she is today. 

	Yes, you are right!  If it was not for Old Chiang,
there would have been a united China instead of a Communist China and a
Nationalist China.  

	Under Chiang's leadership, his over reliance on the recruited warlords
and his de-emphasis of intellectual leadership allowed his troops to rob and
pillage the common people.  Unfortunately, because of that Mao took advantage 
of the situation and got the Chinese people on his side, Mao took China 
quite easily after that.

	When Chiang retreated to Taiwan on his defeat, he abandoned ten of 
thousands of his troops in China, while they were awaiting instruction.  
These loyal KMT troops where subsequently became sitting duck for the
communists.  Some of them managed to escape to countries in South East
Asia.  Many of whom are still defiently defending KMT and refusing to 
believe that their leader had put them to their bitter end. 

	Take nothing away from the Old Chiang, he was a brilliant military
stategist and an excellent general.  But he is only a military man.  
He lacked the compassion that Dr. Sun Yat Sen had toward the Chinese
people.  Or for that matter, he did not have the compassion that his 
Chiang Chin Kuo had toward his people.

	I also did some brief reading over the summer on the biographies
of intellectual KMT revolutionaries who were comtemporaries of Old Chiang, 
such as Hu Shi and Co.  Unless, my Chinese is getting worse, I did not get 
the impression of their overwhelming support when he took power.

	Maybe I should read more.

- C. H. Yang
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:47:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <BvroCF.6sG@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> (xiao-lin li) writes:
>In article <BvrB9G.KI7@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
>
>>And then replace Qin Hui's kneeing statue by the one of some self-defined 
>
>Quite likely Qin Hui's kneeing statue could be replaced by some
>modern figure. By the way, Qin Hui's intention was to maintain
>stability of the emperor. He was an ultra-conservative hardliner.
>
No wonder you guys cannot communicate right things.
It is Qin Kuai, Kuai is a combination of wood and meeting, pronounced
to be Kuai, not "Hui". Isn't it a distruction of Chinese culture?
Note: I checked my dictionary which was published in mainland X years ago.
Ha, some day that Mao Ze Dong may be pronounced Mao Ze Xi if CCP stands.
Hey, FYI, it looks ugly having his wife nude besides him. His wife was
innocent, and Chinese should not treat an innocent like that.

He was the same character as Wu San Quei, selling information to enemy.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Poor Shannon
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:42:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.223323.16998@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c9c-ed@po.berkeley.edu  
( ) writes:
> Dear all,
> 
> I am highly puzzled on why Shannon Yeh is so unpopular. I, while sympathetic
> with those students who will get in trouble if they returned to China, do
> believe that he has a valid point.  
> 
> I think this situation bears a lot similarity to the L.A. Riots and the June
> 4th movement.  Now, if any of you did participate in the 6/4 movement, admit
> it, there are lots of students who participated in it for the 'fun',
> 'glory', 're-nao', not truly for their belief in democracy.  Just like what
> is said about Chai-Lin, and Wang-dan, these so called 'leaders' took the
> glory and hid away when the major crackdown came. 
> 
> So is the same thing for the protection bill.  So many of the students who
> will benefit just want the damn green card, they don't really have the
> 'cause' behind it -- meaning, they are probably willing to say/do/claim
> whatever needed to get the card.  And, why not, it has such a nice 'ring' to
> it -- for the sake of 'human right protection'...
> 
> Of course, what Shannon Yeh did, mailing to the employers and all, is not
> that good.  But put your hand on your heart, and can you still say that he
> doesn't have a somewhat valid point?  I think you all attacked him because
> he candidly uncovered something you rather keep 'implied', not spoken out.
> 
> And if you are one of the perspective benefitees, do you dare say you will
> truly be 'persecuted' if you went back, while most of you probably never
> laid a finger on the 6/4 movement?  Isn't this what is called the repugnant
> "jian4-fen1-shi3-duo4"?  But then, of course, we are not saints.  I probably
> would do the same thing, if i were in the shoes.


I am not a beneficiary. But I want to point out that unless you keep your mouth  
shut, live like a cold-blooded turtle and forget about politics and the future  
of your country, you would sooner or later be procecuted or at least feel being  
prosecuted. So, as many people pointed out, it depends on how you interpret  
"living" in China. There are some people who fall into non-reversible coma.  
They still "live" in this world. Do you call it "living"?

Carl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: wendong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Wen-Dong Tang)
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:27:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.131409.15958@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:

>While, a song may be not real.
>But if you don't need a Chinese heart, you don't have to claim you need one.
>If people say you are not like a Chinese, you should be happy.

Well, let's assume you have a so-called "Chinese heart", so what? 
Of course, "they all try to make the place good for them to live", but, have you
ever thought that they are using different methods?  CCP must kill the poor
students to "make the place good for them to live"!
You were born in China, raised in China, you are determined to have a Chinese
heart! Your family is in China, your friends are in China, your dreams are in
China... However, many people LIKE YOU found they have to leave the place they
love, why?  I am so surprised to see you blame your fellow guys instead of CCP.

Just want to let you know: try to live in another country is not equal to
not love his country, his people. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: uphhslz@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: CSS in USA maybe become SCRAP HEAP in the future China
Reply-To: uphhslz@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Distribution: soc.culture.china
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:05:00 GMT

In article <CHEN.92Oct8195050@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp>, chen@haydn.ee.uec.ac.jp (Chen Jie) writes:
>CSS in the U.S.A are losing a historic chance for China as well as
>for themselves although they maybe reap some profits in short eyes.
>The reason is simple and obvious: historically, Chinese dislike
>those who take advantages by harming others.
>Unfortunately, most CSS in USA are doing so, at least from
>CSS's eyes in Japan.
>The following is the images given by the CSS in USA:
>------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
>but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to protect are themselves
>(see Protection Bill ).
>------They claimed loudly for the democracy and human rights of Chinese people,
>but in fact what they are begging Uncle Sam to do brings harm to
>those kind people inside China (see Bill lobbying for CMFC).
>------They have not shown any action on what they should do, for example, 
>***********to protest USA's sell of F16's to Taiwan, which is 
>very dangerous to the Chinese people both in mainland China and in Taiwan;
>***********to help those poor kids in China to get basic education;
>*********** .......
>
-->In contrast, recent years the CSS in Japan are impressive for their talent 
>and hard working. It is reported that in the recent two years,
>among the CSS who came back to China to serve their people,
>the members from Japan are more than 40 percent of the total numbers,
>and they have brought many business chances to China. 
>
>In conclusion, the CSS in USA are going far away from China.
>When people inside China know what happened in this Net.
>they maybe give a more surprising answer than I.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
>--



It is not the whole side of the story!! You l also find that among all who
of whose who went back to china, there are more people who is 40+ then who is
young. Life is not asy outside, and I understand that it is harder for the CSS
to stay in some countries thae some other countries. I do respect whose who
choose to go bac, but I do not  think you can group people(far away or close)
this way.

BTW, After 6.4, many countries had policy to protect CSS. Canada, Aus. and even
Japan, I was in Germany. I did not see anybody who will give up his/her chance
to be "protected". And nobody is blamed.



Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:27590 talk.politics.china:1837
From: ling@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Gary LING)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Resopnse to txa95@iastate (Response to Shannon Yeh)
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:29:08 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <Bw0uB5.Fov@news.iastate.edu> txa95@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>
>Do you really think those talents who go to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, ... as
>young faculties need this PROTECTION bill to protect them from CG? The
>university willl sponsor them to apply for green card anyway. They do not
>need this bill at all(Well, some may need it to save $4000 of lawyer fee
>and I could be wrong). They can stay in the US as long as they like. Actually,
>getting a green card does not need such talent at all. 1/10 is enough.
>Those who yelled loudly that they need this bill, those who prayed god to
>bless them by having this bill passed, are just uncompetent cowards without
>confidence in themselves. They are opportunist. They do not know how to 
>benefit themselves through moral and justified means.
>
>My advice to you: while you are refuting Shannon's mad words, try to make
>some sense and show us your intelligence. Otherwise, just keep quiet.

What is wrong if the bill just benifits the ordinary CSS?
And no doubt about that, those people who have worked hard to push the bill
into law are very unselfish , and intelligent, if not talented by your
definition. :-)
The fact is, no matter this bill was passed or not, the majority of CSS are
gonna stay here for the time being. The bill/law simply makes life easier
for many of us CSS. 
From you posting, I feel like one thing is missing. That is LOVE, love to
your fellow CSS. I am sorry, but I have to say this.

-GL
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: They leant quick in  U.S.: Character assasination! Damn it! Re: Answer to jerk Shannon Yeh
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:28:08 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science

In article <yzhou.718909040@void> yzhou@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Joe Y. Zhou) writes:
>yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes:
>
>>When Bush tried to attack Clinton during the debate, he said that he did not
>>like to accept those who "demonstrate to against their home country in the
>>foreign territoy".  Then, why did he default those Chinese students' 
>>screwing China activities in the US?
>
>Look, you idiot. You are too stupid to defend CCP.
>
>Clinton was against the war between his own country and its enemy, while CSS
>here try to protest the CCP's killing to Chinese people. Only a jerk like you
>can raise such stupid question.
>
>>I will have my letter send to him before the 2nd debate (10/15).
>
>Good.  So you will be sent to hospital to get some medical care, and people
>here won't see a jerk around any more.
>
>
>joe
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: Lian Zheng <LZHENG@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Shen Tong 's arrival:   I watched It On TV
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:28:22 GMT


I watched the arrival of Shen Tong on TV in 1989.
   
Mr. Shen at that time did show (or pretend to show ) 
to the audience that he escaped from China with the help of some  
kind-hearted people.  He looked like that he was very concerned about the 
safety of the people involved in his escape, so that he would not reveal 
any information related.   Shen said something like this on TV:  I can not
tell you anything except to tell you that someone gave me a phone # in US
so I can get help when I successfully reached the US.   Mr. Shen 
actually read the phone # to the TV reporters there.
(Can someone with better memory correct me please, in case I tell something
wrong?)

Now, someone on the China-NT and SCC said that Mr. Shen actually went through 
normal procedures to come out, making use of the disorder occured around 6.4.
Is someone trying to discredit Mr. Shen as a 'Democray fighter', or the
other way around?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Traditional vs Simplified Characters
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:01:13 GMT

In article <Bw2F1G.6t6@news.iastate.edu> zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
>In article <mvdvalk.718973071@bosporus> mvdvalk@cs.utwente.nl (Martijn van der Valk) writes:
>>Dear netters,
>>
>>Six million Chinese in Hong Kong and 20+ million Chinese in Taiwan can't be
>>wrong. I mean, if 26+ million people can learn traditional characters, why
>>can't the people in PRC. I heard that the simplified characters are simpler to
>>learn. Does this mean that PRC citizens are actually too stupid to learn the
>>traditional characters? I can't believe this!
>
>I can't believe my eyes!

calm down boys!  

We can't go to one extreme or the other, yes, some simpified character
appears to be "over-simplified", but so were some of the old standard
letters "overly-complicated".  Simplified characters existed in practical
writing before the CCP decides to officially simplify the writing.  

let's not dragging the writing character business into a PRC vs ROC fighting
mess like every other issue in this newsgroup, or accusing one group or 
another either "stupid" or "snobs".  Most people agree that
Chinese characters needs to be improved or simplified, but we also feel
some of the simplified characters are over simplified, of course nobody
is perfect, a change in the writing will always upset somebody.  

And by the way, writing traditional characters or not, i certainly
was not impressed by at least some of my 26+ million oversea compatroits'
chinese language skills(no flame intended -- I am sure there are a lot
people better than me in this area).  

yuanhui liu

P.S.  The "26+ million people ..." statement reminded me a clinton supporter
button in August during the democratic convention, it reads:  
"Let Jerry [Brown] Speak!  20+ million Frenchmen can't be wrong 
[about Jerry Lewis]!"   ;->  



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: Ms. Xiao and Tu Ya
Originator: leung@bittemple
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:07:11 GMT


Tuya@ccmail.uoregon.edu writes:

>              [ Ms. Xiao Renshu ]
>
>          What's your favorate?  In your judgement, which of the
>          ancient books is the best?

Jin Ping Mei, of course! I think if JPM is made a XRS version,
that would have more export potential than others.

Steven
-- 
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.
From: ky04@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (KUN YU)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Read postscript file?
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:16:44 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Oct10.155320.18871@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, yidao@cae.wisc.edu (Yidao Cai) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.174722.56398@qut.edu.au> zhoub@qut.edu.au writes:
>>If there are some softwares which can be used to read the postscript file 
>>directly on PC or UNIX system?
>>Any help are appreciate.

GHOSTSCRIPT, which is in public domain, free.
It puts ps files on screen or printers.
-- 



                                                          _                  
ky04@lehigh.edu                                         / _ \
KYu, BioProcessing Institute                          /\ _|_ /\
111 Lehigh University                                    /|\
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Oct 1, our National Day
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:13:41 GMT
    <1992Oct7.162626.12526@news.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:

>Are you suggesting that CCP tried to unite China and Taiwan in the same way as  
>Hu Lu (actually, Nuu Zhen minority) did in the past to get some benifits? Wow!  
>then DDP should be regarded as hero as Yue Fei by some (if not many) Taiwanese.  
>Is DDP hero, or ultra-leftest, or ultra-rightest, or just like some historical  
>phenonmena that complicated people's real purpose of pursuing freedom and  
>happiness? 

>Carl

This issure is not the same as Yue Fei had. It is re-unite, the governor of the
two sides all are Chinese. From KMT's point of view they only moved their
capital from mainland to a province of China, which happend to be a island.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: wcn@cs.brown.edu (Wen-Chun Ni)
Subject: Remember it's a card of shame (Re: The Psychology of New Immigrants, Watch Yourself in Future.)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:51:00 GMT

In article <Bw5H30.595@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>
>
>My congratulations to many who landed in this soil.
>May we maintain the generosity and the greatness of this
>great country and have the same heart of the people here
>to new comers.
>
>Xiao Li

I feel sorry for such kind of "congratulations."

There are two different conditions for you to stay in the US:
 (1) Get a job when you graduate, then get the green card.
	In this case, nobody can criticize such kind of move, because
	everybody has his( or her) right to find the best life.
	You don't owe anything to anybody.

 (2)* Use the newly signed protection to get a green card.
 --------------------------------------------------------
	I still don't object to this. But, do you guys need to
	"CONGRATULATE" each other? When you get the card, be sure to
	know *WHY* you can get the card. It's a shame that the Chinese
	students should be staying in the US using this approach. 

	Once you really get the card, be sure to remember 

	 *Because of many people's blood, you get your futures.*


**Epilogue**
There is nothing to be happy about. The green card you're gonna receive
is a card of shame:
      it's a shame of the failure of democracy in China
      it's a shame of the double standards to yourselves and to those
          people in Tibet, Hong Kong,  and Taiwan.

      it's a shame that people only think of escaping rather than
      fighting.




  Wen-Chun Ni: Department of Computer Science    (A proud Taiwanese)
	       Brown University,               
	       Providence, RI 02912            
  ________________________________________________________________

      *   *                    I'm quite sure if God were asked
     *   *      *              to draw up a programme of the world
    **   ***  ***              he had created, he could never do it.
   * *   *      *                           
  *  *   ********                  -- Mahler to Alma, 15th Dec 1901
     *     *  *                 
     *     *  *                     in description of 2nd Symphony
     *    *   *  *                                  "Resurrection."
     *   *    ****
  ________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china