HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Basil Hamdan)
Subject: Re: Article in soc.culture.arabic
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 21:28:02 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Nov5.175619.16750@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached) writes:
|> Just to draw the attention of those Lebanese who do not consider
|> themselves arabs. Can you respond to the below question ?
|> 
|> 
|> --------------------------- Quoted Article -------------------------------
|> Article: 7663 of soc.culture.arabic
|> From: y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jafr bin Haza)
|> Subject: Arab Unity
|> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:10:48 GMT
|> 
|> 
|> Kaf Halek?
|> 
|> Can someone tell me why lebanese have their own newsgroup?  How can
|> Arabs stick together with such nonsense?  The last time I checked
|> Lebanese were Arabs????  

Though I do not fall into the category of people you were
addressing, I thought the answer to Jafr's question was
self-evident, maybe you should've answered him yourself
without posting this challenge on s.c.l.

Just browsing through my .newsrc file, I found:

soc.culture.europe       

AND

soc.culture.british            
soc.culture.french 
soc.culture.german                                        
soc.culture.italian                                      
soc.culture.netherlands 
etc....

Then:

soc.culture.latin-america         

AND

soc.culture.brazil       
soc.culture.mexican      

Or, simply put, being Lebanese and being Arab are not 
necessarily two mutually exclusive propositions.
Please, let's not start-up that stale debate about
Arab vs. Lebanese identity, we have addressed it
several times on s.c.l. and it proved to be an unproductive
discussion.

Basil
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: reward
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:50:04 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
My problem with ElieM is something to do with his remarks towards
Muslims in general and Honourable people I happen to consider a little bit
less than Saints. Peolpe like Hoss, Hariri..etc.

Elie replies:
I personally think you are a bit constipated on issues concerning Islam.
You have said on a few occasions that you are uneasy to talk about such
issues.

I personally think it is wrong for the Egyptian govt. to jail and 
subject to torture people merely for becoming Christians.

Now, as to some images and captions I posted a few months ago, some which
showed Arabs and their slaves somewhere is Saudi Arabia in the 1920s, this 
should have prompted your concern that such things do/did exist.

It took the Vatican hundreds of years before they gave Galileo a 
clean bill of health couple of weeks ago. Everybody does mistakes.
So please refrain from characterizing me as some form of anti-Moslem Nazi,
the most I could be accused of is hanging out dirty laundry.

Regards, Elie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: dina@cs.mcgill.ca (Dina KAYYAL)
Subject: Re: Shaheed
Organization: SOCS - McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:10:09 GMT

In article <1dr4b3INN23m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.114229.9739@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>
>>It is commonly accepted that Arabic did the same vis a vis Aramaic as Aramaic
>>did vis a vis Greek. Arabic took its term for witness and used it for martyr
>>following the adjectival pattern: fa@iil (like kabiir, Dariir, majiid etc.)
>
>I am not sure about this point.  While I am not an expert in
>languages, as far as I know you have the following derivations in
>arabic: Ism fa@iil and Ism maf@oul.  Thus, Shahida, fa howa shahidon
>(Ism fa@iil here).  I don't think you can get something like shahid
>through a straighforward derivation.  It is not like kabiir or majiid.
>There is no grammatical "wazn" (weight) to derive such an adjective.
>Btw, the derivation would be "shaheeed" (Ism moubalagha? )

But it could be derived as "esem fa@iil".  Since "'asme' l fa@iil" are
"fa@@al  mifa@l  fa@oul  fa@eel fa@el" so that should give:
"shahhad mishhad shahoud shahid shahed"
                         ------

Wow.. I even impressed me :-) I do remember something from my arabic
grammar after all.

>H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
>Dept. of Computer Engineering
>Crawford Hall 215C
>Case Western Reserve U

Regards,

Dina.
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: The Syrian record.
Date: 8 Nov 92 10:13:09 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <4314@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Jihad) writes:

>>Hitler's propaganda machine always carried updated information especially
>>to those who knew very little about the situation.  Usually it is most
>>effective on that kind of people.
>
>So you are suggesting that this is all propoganda?  That what was stated
>before in this report is false?  I am very aware of the situation in
>Syria which the report addressed, but I was suggesting that to those who
>are not familiar with it might be a little enlightened.  Sorry, I am not
>clear on what exactly you are suggesting here other than what you perceive
>as false or misleading information.  Can you support your conclusions?

Well, it is interesting that Samir (who has at many times defended
Syria's presence in Lebanon because "its a strategic concern") goes
out of his way to draw some parallels with "Hitler's propaganda"
whenever he reads something he does not like.
CLAO is against all occupiers, and they would not negotiate or trade
Lebanon's sovereignty for the strategic concerns of other countries.

Regards, Elie.

                     I believe that the United States needs a broader
                     policy toward the Middle East that promotes peace
                     and stability in the Middle East, we must not
                     overlook Hafez al-Assad's tyrannical rule and
                     domination of Lebanon.

                                   Bill Clinton (while campaigning :-))


--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: reward
Date: 8 Nov 92 14:22:36 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Nov8.133456.23686@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.122516.21816@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk
>("I.Ballouz") writes:
>
>joke or not, such posts are condemnable! It is not funny and it is not
>acceptable! whether we agree with ElieM or not, whether we agree with Ibrahim
>Ballouz or not!
>
>

If you find it that anti-social and repellent, then please accept my apology.

>elie wardini

I. Ballouz

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: reward
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:02:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.192010.17458@csi.uottawa.ca> u554835@csi.uottawa.ca (Fadi Kachi - President.) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.094254.10778@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>  
>ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>> 
[......  ]
>
>MAN YOU NEVER GIVE UP ?
>-----------------------
>
>Give it a rest will you ?

Is it my fault that some of you had hastly jumped to give me lectures even
though it was only a joke?

I am afraid what you and others had done, has other reasons than the mere fact
of replying to a post you did not like.
The fact that you (with respect) and others did not like what I was writing,
However, you did not have the courage to reply. When you read my post about
the REWARD, you (the collection who hastly replied) thought: Ah! Here is a
window of opportunity, why won't we just go ahead and strike now?

You wanted everybody to know that you are there, and you thought that you could
give me some lectures on freedom of speech and some went to the extent to issue
threats!

I am not hearding cows you know and I don't take such cheap lectures that they
were only motivated by bitterness towards me because I wrote something you did
not like.
This is the truth, and NO I won't give up just because you want to avoide 
further reactions. You should have thought before you had jumped.
>
>>>No need to reply, obviously you are one of those who grew up hating the  
>>>air we breathe.
>
>Let me disagree with you on the above. I do not hate the air you breathe.
>But I would like to achieve an agreement with you that Syrian occupation  
>hates the air we BOTH breathe just as much as the Israelis. So lets do  
>something about. Lets stop considering Syria as a SISTER NATION.
>

I have never replied to ElieM about his opinion about Syria and I won't reply
to you now. My problem with ElieM is something to do with his remarks towards
Muslims in general and Honourable people I happen to consider a little bit
less than Saints. Peolpe like Hoss, Hariri..etc.
I did not ask ElieM to change his mind about Syria, Israel... everybody can do
whatever he thinks suitable.

You have your opinion about Syria, that is good for you.
Leave me and my opinions, I am not ready to share them especially when there
are people who can't tell a joke from a serious talk.



-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Hoss outstanding (was Re: Lebanon corporation?)
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:13:32 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

waid@elaine37.Stanford.EDU (Walid F Nasrallah) writes:

 Elie : well, is that not a good start?  Did Hariri really have to
create a "Ministry for Tennis" for Suleiman, a "Ministry of Bathroom 
Attendants" for Hobeika and a "Ministry for Liaisons with Syrian Jails"
for Sami?  I think he did a brilliant job given the constraints he has
to work under.  We don't need another martyr, and I personaly am beginning
to see that, yes, this is the kind of man whose kids get admitted to MIT.
(For example, if the local evil genius Hafez got this job and Saddam ran
Syria, where do you think he would start?

Cheers.

Elie replies:

Well I hope Hariri has a good life insurance :-)

Regards, Elie.
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Lebanon corporation?
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:18:24 GMT
Organization: UiO

In article <1992Nov5.100233.19502@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk
("I.Ballouz") writes:

I am not on any smear campain, and I am not afraid to present my cards on the
table.

If I din't like Hariri I would have said so. I am afraid of no one but God!

I stated my reasons for my questioning and I don't care if it were my father, I
do not need to repat them again.

No offence though.

>
>You have never bothered about presidents who had well established connections
>with outsiders (France, Israel, USA..), you never bothered about about the
>millions that were squandered from our central bank, you never bothered that
>our countrymen wake up in the morining and head for the rubbish mountains in 
>order to find something to sell and get some bread to their families.

How do you know that? How do you know how many times I have opposed such
squandering? how do you know whom I have opposed, ask me and you will get a
straight andswer. How do you know what I bother about? What do you know what I
wake up to see each mornining? How do you know how my parents live and under
which conditions? How do you know? How do you know what bothers me or not?

Is it wrong of me to oppose or question the accession to power of persons who
have vested ineterests to the extant that Hariri and his team has? I would deem
a country doomed if they did not ask themselves such questions. We should learn
from our mistakes. Sulayman Frangieh was a criminal and had to seek refuge in a
foreign country to escape Lebanese justice, we then go and make him
president!!!! (yes Hariri is not a criminal)

we need to be critical!

>All what is bothering you is the guy is rich (as if he is the only one who has
>got, try to look a bit around you and you can find many Lebanese who have 
>and some of them have made their money from palying in the exchange market) so
>you question his connections with the outside, you don't find any scandals of
>his own so you want guaranties that his associates will not mess around and
you
>make histerical demands which only show that you have no trust in anybody and
>and you are not even ready and willing to give a proper chance.

Money does not bother me. I do not have money, but I am not disturbed with fact
that others are rich. I will always defend free enterprise and the right of
individuals to gain wealth.

My problem is with the principles with which we want to run our country.

NOte however that in the last presidential elections I was 21 years old. even
then I had my critical views (Though I did support Bashir Gemayel, especially
becuase I saw him as one who opposed corruption), but I can assure you that I
will always do my best to promote principles and not follow my heart.

>
>This is what is sad about it and you are completely right, WE NEED A CHGANGE
>OF HEART. 
>
>Have you heard about Nature VS Nurture? This what it is, Some people tried
very
>heard to conceal their feelings and at the end, their Nature prevailed.

exactly, I agree fully.

>
>I.Ballouz



elie wardini
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: reward
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:19:36 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

@mcl2mac.berkeley.edu (Youssef Fawaz) writes:

Nowhere in Imad's quote do I see a reference to Christians killing only
Muslims.  He said the Serbs who are Christians are raping/killing/etc...
The religion of their victims is irrelevant.  Your sarcasm is in poor
taste
and cannot substitute for your reading deficiencies.
[...]

Elie replies:

I am honored to have the great Youssef Fawaz come to the defense
of I. Ballouz. 
You should have waited and read his latest gem before jumping in. :-)
Second of all, his name is Ibrahim not Imad... :-) heheheh
It seems to me that Mr. Ballouz specifically singled out Bosnia...

You can spend all day attacking Israel, Serbia, Arafat, anyone you want... 
It really does not bother me. 


Regards, Elie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: WHO IS BETTER:  BASHIR OR AOUN?
Organization: LC
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 03:40:06 GMT

On a scale of 1 to 10 how do you scale Gen. Aoun and Bashir El Gemayyel
in terms of:

					AOUN			BASHIR
1- Love to Lebanon			9			0
2- Caring for innnocents		6			0
3- Careless criminal			1			10
4- Christian fanatic			0			7
5- Feds the hungry			2			0
6- Fought Syrians			10			0
7- Hated Palestinians			2			10
8- Enjoyed playing with children	7			0
9- Enjoyed killing Children		0			1,00000
10- Cared for power and not freedom	0			10
11- A freedom fighter			3			0
12-Cared less if civilians are		10			10
   caught in cross fire
13- Listed to Israeli Orders		1			9
14- Listed to Syrian Orders		0			9

I don't see why all of the X-Bashir fans are AOUN fans now adays!

jle
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: THE TERM 'SHAHEED' WHEN USED BY CHRISTIANS
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:51:24 GMT
Organization: LC


	The term Shaheed is an islamic term.

Throughout the civil war period that I spent in Lebanon,  I kept on
hearring on the Lebanese CHRISTIAN radios death announcements of their 
military men that die in battle.  They refered to each as a "Shaheed". 
The term Shaheed refers to Muslims people that die for 
the "Shihadatayn":  Ashado an La Ilaha Illah Allah, 
			Wa Ash-hado anna Muhammad Rasoolo Allah.

jle
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 13 Nov 1992 15:37:22 CST
From: Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Lebanese Cultural Committee

We are starting a Lebanese Cultural Committee at school.  And we are in the pro
cees of writing a constitution.  We need to put down the purposes, membership r
equirements, duties of the advisor, etc...

If any of you has any ideas, can you please send them to me?  And one more thin
g, if you already have a Lebanese club or something like that, could you send m
e a copy of your constitution?  I need it ASAP.

My mailing address is:


Nasri Abi-Mansour
700 S. Halsted
Chicago, Il 60607

Thank you,

Nasri
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|        Je suis jeune, il est vrai; mais aux ames bien nees            |
|        La valeur n'attend point le nombre des annees.                 |
|                                                 LE CID (DON RODRIGUE) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: The Economist on the Elections
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:52:02 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


"Although 2.2million Lebanese are supposedly eligible to vote,
up to half of them may not be able to. Either they are dead,
or they have emigrated, or they are among the 356,000 people who have
been driven from their villages...and are still afraid to return home.

"Election districts have been gerrymandered to benefit the handful of 
power-brokers who get on well with the Syrians... In some districts,
a parlementarian will need only 5,000 votes, in others 100,000.

"Would be independent candidates - those without direct links 
with the Syrians - have been intimidated. One nervous candidate
is said to sleep each night in a different house to avoid a 
knock on the door from a Syrian intelligence agent. Another was
reportedly informed that he was welcome to run, but only at the 
head of a list of Syrian-approved candidates. The invitation was 
backed with a volley of gunshots.

"Lebanon's Christians, who for the first time in their history are
experiencing the bitterness of being a political minority, lead the
opposition to the election... Some Muslims are no more enthusiastic 
about the elections than are the Christians." (Aug. 15)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: reward
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:12:26 GMT

elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:

>@mcl2mac.berkeley.edu (Youssef Fawaz) writes:

>Nowhere in Imad's quote do I see a reference to Christians killing only
>Muslims.  He said the Serbs who are Christians are raping/killing/etc...
>The religion of their victims is irrelevant.  Your sarcasm is in poor
>taste
>and cannot substitute for your reading deficiencies.
>[...]

>Elie replies:

>I am honored to have the great Youssef Fawaz come to the defense
>of I. Ballouz. 

You ought to feel honored any time anybody would take actual time off
of his schedule to entertain the thought of replying to or commenting
on the nonsense that you are so famous for.  Like right now :)

>You should have waited and read his latest gem before jumping in. :-)
>Second of all, his name is Ibrahim not Imad... :-) heheheh

Oh no! The heheheh syndrome has struck you again.  I thought I was able
to cure you way back.  Oh well, 'Danab l-kalb bidallou a'waj' :)

What does Ibrahim's latest post have to do with Youssef's reply?
Youssef was kind enough to attribute your hatred-prone replies to
Ibrahim and others to your 'reading deficiencies'.  While this might
be true, as you demonstrate over and over again, it is no secret to
anybody that a mean spirit is the driving force behind all the Aoun
backed divisiveness that you keep trying to push into scl.  I don't
think your case is very hopeful.  It would probably take you much more
time than the average person before you realize that you are being way
overboard, if you ever do.  Just think, you are a supporter of a guy
who still does not realize he is not the PM of Lebanon or that he
never was!

>It seems to me that Mr. Ballouz specifically singled out Bosnia...

Apparently, and I bet there is a consensus among the readers of scl,
between what seems to you and what is lies the Atlantic ocean.

>You can spend all day attacking Israel, Serbia, Arafat, anyone you want... 
>It really does not bother me. 

It would break my heart to find out you were actually bothered from
something one of those days!  Please hang tough.

>Regards, Elie.

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: to be continued
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:32:28 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde


Now, it is almost 6 ocl. here, keep your messages coming, will
reply tomorrow.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************