HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david.carlson@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: let's get back to rea
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:41:45 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: ALMAC PC Board

z  Newsgroup: sci.geo.meteorology
z    Subject: Let's get back to real meteorology

PF>So, I ask, where are the meteorologists?

Nothing to do with tornados.  I am a new to this newsgroup and
would like to post a few questions to meteorologists.  The
problem is I have been getting no responses and wonder if I've
got the addressing wrong.  I have been attempting this using
qmail deluxe2 without any specific headers until this message 
where I have pinched two lines from your last message.

Please let me know if you got this then I will try posting
my questions again.

Many thanks,

-<--David--N.Yorks--UK-->-
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #12080 ~ 
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
From: rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:25:21 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

Most systems use time/strength measurements to do the ranging and
"direction finding".  Power companies have the interest in protecting
their equipment (and perhaps better serving their customers) so that
they employ nets of these receivers.

-- 
Josh Rovero   (rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil) | or Internet 5346p@cc.nps.navy.mil 
Department of Oceanography, Code OC/Rv |      Bitnet 5346p@NAVPGS 
Naval Postgraduate School              |              
Monterey, CA  93943   (408) 646-2084   |
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:29:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mozer@jed.atmo.arizona.edu (Joel Mozer) writes:

>This type of a setup has been (and I assume still is) being used in 
>lightning location networks.  They are generally refered to as 
>"time-of-arrival" sensors.  Such a system is in operation in the 
>U.S. called "LPATS."  I don't know what the acronym stands for but the 
>devices are manufacutured by Atmospheric Research Systems, Inc in Palm Bay FL.

What frequency do they use, or better yet, what is their bandwidth and
resolution?


>Actually lightning location methods have evolved quite a bit in recent
>years.  Another company, Lightning Location and Protection (Tucson, AZ)
>build several types of Direction Finders (DF's) based on the work of
>Krider and Uman (as well as others).  They use sophisticated RF wave-shape
>algorithms and spectral information to pin down the ranges more precisely.
>Some sensors now incorporate optical detection alongside the RF detectors.

The wider the bandwidth, the better this can be done for RF envelope
shaping.  611 Mhz +- 3 Mhz would be great for this part.

There is also differential frequency propogation in RF.  We heard that
in the form of the rumbling of more distant thunder when the original
impulse is "stretched" into a different waveform due to this difference
in the propogations.


>A big source of error in getting the direction of cloud-to-ground strikes
>is that such channels often extend a fair distance horizontally in the
>region between the cloud and the ground.  More accurate results from an
>RF detector can be had if one gates the incomming signal so that only 
>the lowest tens of meters of the return stroke are seen.  This portion
>of the channel is typically quite vertical.

It will also be seen differently from different directions.  It should be
possible to estimate the extent of the horizontal channel as well.


>There are now nationwide networks of DF's which allow one to watch 
>thunderstorm development around the country.  They are becomming important,
>not only for lightning protection, but for forecasting as well.  Many
>meteorologists think that it is easier to watch a line of lightning strikes
>propagate across a region that it is for radar echos.

I'd like to see the displays combined.


>BTW - I have no affiliation with either Atmospheric Research Systems or
>      Lightning Location and Protection.

Darn.
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.research.careers
From: fu@math.orst.edu (Erxuan Fu)
Subject: SeekingJob,PhD Student,Years Exp,Meteorology/Math/CS/OC,FORTRAN,C,Pascal,C++,Sun,IBM,VAX,CRAY,Mac,NeXT
Organization: Oregon State University Math Department
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:31:52 GMT

If interested, please e-mail me at fu@math.orst.edu.
Thanks in advance.

+--------------------------+------------------+--------------------+
+ e-mail address:          + Telephone N0:    + Mailing Address:   +
+ fu@math.orst.edu         +                  + Erxuan Foo         +
+ fue@prism.cs.orst.edu    + O (503)737-5161  + Dept. of Math, OSU +
+ fue@ucs.orst.edu         + H (503)752-2177  + Corvallis, OR97331 +
+--------------------------+------------------+--------------------+
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightning detection equipment
From: dhoward@desire.wright.edu (sparky-desire)
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:25:42 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <5736@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil>, rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero) writes:
> Most systems use time/strength measurements to do the ranging and
> "direction finding".  Power companies have the interest in protecting
> their equipment (and perhaps better serving their customers) so that
> they employ nets of these receivers.

i missed the original to this followup, so forgive if i repeat something
that has already been mentioned.

there are two companies that i know of that produce lightning detection
networks for various applications, utilities and forestry are prime.

one company uses magnetic direction finding and a patented wave-form
discrimination technique that masks out all incoming e-m signals other
than that of a cloud to ground strike.  a network of the magnetic
direction finders report time-coded information to a central computer
that correlates the data, calculates the strike positions, then sends
the data back out to interested parties.

a second company uses a less sophistocated discrimination method, and
no magnetic direction finding at all, instead uses receivers that report
the time of arrival of incoming signals to sub-microsecond resolution.
the central computer then correlates the data and uses algebra instead
of trigonometry to solve for positions of strikes.

the b.l.m. recently maintained a network of magnetic direction finders
that covered the entire western half of the u.s.  at the same time,
the state university of new york at albany had a similar system that
they maintained for epri (sp?).  last i heard, the two systems were
merging under new management.

-- 
.sparky.
From: ruscher@metdat.met.fsu.edu (Paul Ruscher)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: AMS Journals--subject listings?
Summary: options are 3, I reckon
Keywords: Meteorological and Geoastrophysical Abstracts
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:13:20 GMT
Organization: Florida State University Meteorology Dept
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Jul20.013646.14086@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, jlevit@ALLIANT.BACKBONE.uoknor.edu (Jason John Levit) writes...
> 
>  I'm looking for a subject listing of *all* the journal articles
>  which have appeared in AMS journals to date (or for at least the past 20
>  years).  Does anyone know where I can find this, or at least
>  something similar?  Thanks!
> 
Jason:
    The American Meteorological Society has published for many
years Meteorological and Geoastrophysical Abstracts, which provide
what you seek for far beyond 20 years.  Monthly issues should be
in your library at UofOkla.  That is option 1, but it would be
painstakingly slow, as it includes AMS journals and all others with
meteorological relevance.  Option 2 would be to check December 
issues; all AMS journals have author and subject indexes there.
Your best option, if available, would be using your campus library
system's computer to help - AMS abstracts are beginning to become
available with on-line services.  However, in any case, you are 
looking at a rather copious amount of subject entries; check any
December issue of JAS or MWR or an issue of the abstracts for 
subject indexes and you'll see what I mean!
Paul Ruscher/FSU Meteorology/ruscher@metdat.met.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: jbhuber@iastate.edu (Joseph B Huber)
Subject: reporter hit by lightning
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:30:14 GMT

I heard that (yesterday?) a Florida TV reporter was partially hit by lightning
while taping a segment outside during a storm. 

One of the local TV stations here showed the video tape of the incident, but I
missed it.

Does anyone have any details on this, or actually see the tape of the
incident?


-- 
Joe Huber 
(jbhuber@iastate.edu)        | Capt. James T. Kirk on the 2nd law of thermo: 
Dept. of Mech. Egr.          |  "It's not a hundred percent efficient,
Iowa State University        |   but nothing ever is."
From: lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz (Lance Andrewes)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Digitizing of Met charts
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:33:02 GMT
Organization: none

I'd very much like to hear from anyone who is digitizing charts
in their forecast room.  These would include MSL anals/progs,
and aviation/marine SIG WX.

In case the term "digitize" is ambiguous - I mean a system
where a chart is saved as a series of points (e.g. lat/long)
with a description of what the point represents (e.g. front,
MSL isobar, 250hPa height).

My interest is not in the programming details, but in the 
implementation - particular the user interface and digitizing
hardware.

Please email me at "andrewes@met.govt.nz".

Thank you.
__
 _______  Email: 1. lance@lancea.actrix.gen.nz
////             2. andrewes@met.govt.nz
          ZL2AJH.......Wellington, New Zealand
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lightening
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:02:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mccrory@uservx.plk.af.mil writes:

>  In New Mexico lightning can travel 20 miles horizontally in the cloud 
>  before emerging and travelling to the ground.

I couple weeks ago I saw a strik travel from the back end of a big cell,
out in the clear air horizontally for about 5 miles, then pitch down and
reach the ground.  It was sorta like the cell had "forgotten" a place it
was going to hit and remembered it later :-)  This was in east central
Illinois.
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: landsea@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Chris Landsea)
Subject: Re: Hurricanes vs. Typhoons
Summary: Yes, there are still "typhoons"
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:29:10 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

In article <l7j5j4INN1p7@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:
> 
>.....But for several years now, I've heard and read about
>hurricanes in the Pacific; I never hear the word "typhoon" 
>anymore at all.
>

(Must be a Weather Channel watcher....)  There *are* Pacific "hurricanes" in 
the *Eastern* and *Central* Pacific (east of the date line).  West of the
date line, they are called "typhoons".  In the Indian Ocean (such as the
storm that devastated Bangladesh a year ago), they are known as "cyclones".
But these are all the same creatures with different names...
 
>
>Also, I've noticed that hurricanes are alternately given male names now,
>instead of just the traditional female names.  I seem to recall reading
>somewhere that this was done at the behest of feminists.  .....  Does anyone 
>have any details on this?  When was the naming convention changed?
>

I think your speculations are correct about *why* it was changed.  As for
when, the first male Atlantic storm was "Bob" in 1979.  In the Eastern
Pacific we had the first male a year earlier with "Bud" in 1978.  I don't
know about when the West Pac switched to male and female, but probably
about the same time.

Chris

P.S.  Prof. W.M. Gray's (my advisor) updated seasonal forecast will be
coming out on Wednesday, August 5 (stay tuned.....)

*****************************************************************************
Chris Landsea                          Voice:  (303) 491-8605
Department of Atmospheric Science      Fax:    (303) 491-8449
Colorado State University              Internet:  landsea@typhoon.atmos.
Fort Collins, CO   80523                          colostate.edu

                            Named-Storms(Days) Hurricanes(Days) Cat-345(Days)
Hurricane Climatology:          9.3  (46.7)       5.8  (23.7)     2.5  (5.8)
Gray's 92 Forecast (11/26/91):  8    (35)         4    (15)       1    (2)
Gray's 92 Update   (6/5/92):    8    (35)         4    (15)       1    (2)
1992 Count to date:             0     (0)         0     (0)       0    (0)
*****************************************************************************
From: stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Sign in Conn.
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:27:46 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Jul23.193251.18952@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>  
bhuber@ldgo.columbia.edu (bruce huber) writes:

+ The sign can be confusing to oceanographers as well (except perhaps those
+ residing in or near the town of Westerly, RI).  As far as I know, there is
+ no corresponding town in RI called Easterly to confuse those approaching 
+ from the MA side of the state (meteorologists and oceanographers from MIT
+ or WHOI?)
+ ..

I was under the impression that oceanographers used the dictionary 
convention. I know that working with them makes me multidirectional.

James
From: crb7q@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Cameron Randale Bass)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Letters to the Editor:  Blazing Ta
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:21:47 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1466900267@igc.org> cgilbert@igc.org (Claire Gilbert) writes:
>
>                      Material herein from
>         _Blazing Tattles_, Vol. 1, Issue 12, July 1992.
>                 Published by Claire W. Gilbert
>
>LETTERS TO THE EDITOR:  KUDOS, GRATITUDE, and TECHNICAL COMMENTARY
>
>                              KUDOS
>
>     "Congratulations on your heroic one-woman publishing
>operation."  --Geoffrey Fox, Author, New York, New York
>
>     "Loved the newsletter on ozone....Keep up the good work."
>--Hank Brandli, Author, Satellite Meteorology
>
>     "The content of the Bellringer Issue of Blazing Tattles was
>fascinating!"  --Joe Vialls, Australian Journalist
>
       [other categories deleted]

      "What a crock of donkey doughnuts." --Siskel and Ebert

                             dale bass
--
C. R. Bass                                           crb7q@virginia.edu
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            (804) 924-7926
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Lawyer's science vs. unbiased presentation of the facts
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 01:27:24 GMT
Organization: MTS Univ of Alberta     

 
   Apologies to those of you with intelligent news readers, but my
brain-dead system will only give me the illusion of crossposting. It
shows up locally, but dumps the extra groups when reaching the real 
world. I'll have to do this by hand. (I get a new account on another
machine Real Soon Now.)
 
In article <721@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
In article <1992Jul22.154529.2614@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>|
>|ENSO is a red-herring in this context.  Not only is the resulting
>|warming not global, but since the cycle lasts 3-5 years, the
>|net effects of ENSO average out over the decadal time scale. In
>|contrast, with 2xCO2 warming, we are talking about a warmer climate
>|year-in, year-out.  The fluctuations like ENSO would be superposed
>|(probably not linearly) on top of this generally warmer climate.
> 
>It is true that ENSO is not relevant as a causaive factor in global
>warming, but it may be relevant in estimating the *effects* of such.
> 
 
    ..but much of the earlier discussion claimed that the effects of 
a single ENSO would be similar to the effects of an equivalent global
temperature change. Nick Szabo kept repeating that ENSO happens
in the current climate, and therefore a global change of 2-4C is
not important. ENSO *is* a red herring _in this context_ (as the
earlier posted stated).
 
>ENSO may *not* be superimposed on a warming trend, rather the warming
>trend might 'latch' the ENSO in the El Nino mode more or less permanently.
>(That is if the actual driving force of the El Nino is a West Pacific
>surface water warming).
> 
 
   ...and now the effects are *not* the same as the former ENSO, which
is a transient departure from "normal". The situation you describe
defines a new "normal". A "permanent" El Nino is a subset of previously-
occuring atmospheric circulation patterns, so there doesn't *seem* to
be anything new about it, but the change in frequency does mean the 
climate has changed, and the impact will very likely *not* be analagous
to the effects of periodic El Nino events. Trees survive winter, but
changing to permanent winter will mean the end of trees.
 
>One of the difficulties in figuring out how global warming will effect
>the climate is the fact that the effects may not be *linear*.
>-- 
 
    Global warming *is* the climate. :-)  I think what you mean to
say is that the averaging process implied by "global" and "climate"
(being spatial and temporal averaging respectively) shouldn't be
assumed to be acting on linear phenomena when we look at short term
or local effects. IMHO, it will very likely (rather than may) not be
linear.
 
 
Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: stumpf@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Greg Stumpf)
Subject: Re: Gustnadoes
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:29:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.143851.29430@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster) writes:
>Several people have sent me mail asking just what exactly is a gustnado, so,
>not seeing Greg Stumpf anywhere in sight, I thought I'd go ahead and offer

I'm here....(up on North Campus)

>a definition/my best understanding of what a gustnado is...
>
>Gustnadoes form on the leading edge of thunderstorms, where the outflow
>boundary/gustfront is located.  Now if you have a dust devil or some
>similar broad low power circulation ahead of the gust front, the interaction
>of the front with the circulation stretches the vortex and narrows the 
>diameter.  Since energy must be conserved, the angular velocity is forced
>to increase (spinning figure skater bringing her arms close to the body).
>This is the basic form of the gustnado.  They don't normally have winds
>in excess of F0, and don't derive their energy in the same manner as a
>tornado, and since the circulation is not pendant to the base of the storm,
>it is not a tornado (by definition).  The only way they are visible from 
>the dirt raised by the winds.

Good description.  Many argue that a gustnado *is* a tornado beacuse it
is a violently rotating column of air on the ground, but seem to forget that
the definition of a true tornado says that this column of air is *pendant
from the cumulonimbus cloud*.  This does not mean, however, that you can have
very damaging gustnadoes if conditions are met.  Also, some gustnadoes can
be entrained into the thunderstorm updraft, becoming tornadoes (or hybrids).

>A good example of a gustnado that a lot of people have seen is from the old
>Nova episode years ago, where Lou Wicker is screaming "That is the wierdest
>thing I've ever seen!!!" in reference to what appeared to be a tornado
>hanging down from the front end of a thunderstorm.  If you listen to the 
>details he describes, it becomes obvious they are looking at a gustnado...

Is this the infamous "Wicker Vortex"?  I had heard that it was really smoke
from a fire being stretched into the thunderstorm updraft, and not a true
vortex.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Stumpf - KB5LMU          \  /  Internet: greg@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu
Forecast Applications Research ||      Phone: (405) 366-0477 FAX: 366-0472
Room 249, National Severe      ||   Disclaimer: I chase to learn, but it's fun!
          Storms Laboratory    ||       "Be Landspouty!"
1313 Halley Circle             ||       "Everyone get good pictures!"
Norman, OK 73069              /  \      "NSSL wants your video!"
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Stupid statements
Summary: Not a post about the climate
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:52:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

I picked this up off the computer today...

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT  
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORT WORTH TX  
600 PM CDT MON JUL 27 1992  
  
AT 600 PM CDT...STORM SPOTTERS IN THE DALLAS FORT WORTH METROPLEX WERE  
OBSERVING A POSSIBLE FUNNEL CLOUD NEAR ARLINGTON MOVING EAST AT 15 MILES  
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AN HOUR. THE THUNDERSTORM PRODUCING THE ROTATING FUNNEL CLOUD IS ASSOCIATED  
WITH A MOIST TROPICAL AIRMASS AND STRONG ROTATING UPDRAFTS. THIS FUNNEL  
CLOUD IS NOT EXPECTED TO DEVELOP TO GROUND LEVEL AND SHOULD REMAIN ALOFT  
BEFORE DISSIPATING BY 630 PM CDT.  
( an interesting forecast, considering he's not there to evaluate the
  possible funnel )
  
AS OF 600 PM CDT...NO SEVERE WEATHER REPORTS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED. HOWEVER...  
THE STRONGEST THUNDERSTORMS CAN PRODUCE GUSTY SURFACE WINDS...SMALL HAIL...  
DANGEROUS LIGHTNING...AND HEAVY DOWNPOURS OF RAIN.  SOME PONDING OF WATER  
MAY PRODUCE LOCALIZED URBAN FLOODING.  
  
RESIDENTS SHOULD SEEK SHELTER IF THREATENING WEATHER APPROACHES OR A  
WARNING IS ISSUED. STAY TUNED TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO FOR ADDITIONAL  
STATEMENTS.  
 

*Near* Arlington????  Geeeeze!  That could be anywhere within a 200
square mile area!  I know the situation isn't really that serious, as
the possible funnel was probably bogus (anyone spotter who reports a
funnel, yet places his location as 'near Arlington' can't be too 
reliable), or a landspout, but do these guys think they could maybe get
the location a little closer than that?  This may also be another case
of an inexperienced intern writing statements (not to say I have a lot
of experience... I don't write 'em, just broadcast 'em).

Thoughts?  Ideas? 

Anyone... anyone?

marc
ousom/ounnwr
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology