HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:40:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.095305.22308@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl>, hjpoell@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Poell) writes:
|> 
|> Okay, some replies to your 'short comments'   (IF YOU HATE THIS TALK SKIP
|> NOW, OR DON'T FOLLOW THE WHOLE STUPID DISCUSSION ANYWAY)

What annoys me is that some of the newer players who don't know any better
may actually believe this drivel.

|> )|> Graahoeje...
|> )I seriously doubt he kills nations faster than any other.  He's another
|> )person with too much time on his hands -- calculating che numbers!!!  How
|> )could he kill nations 'faster than any other' if he's spending time
|> )calculating stupid che numbers?!?!?!
|> 
|> The point is: I met him in real live. He hasn't much time to spend on the


Ok, let me get this straight...  First your point was that Graa* 'kills
nations faster than any other' (yeah, right).  Now it looks like the point
is that you know the guy personally and will therefore think he is awesome
whether he is or not.

|> the guy works very efficient when he is logged on. Making revolt chances
|> 0% by killing che quickly is a way to save time and mil later on. I don't
|> see much (even good) people do it... Look at the results: Graahoeje ends

I don't see how someone who calculates che and revolt chances can be labelled
'efficient.'  An experienced empire player should just be able to estimate
this at a glance and save a whole lot of time.

|> )|> Finland...
|> )Just about everyone knows how to make tech and all of the good players
|> )know how to make it quite well.  There's a limit to how much should be
|> )produced, though, and that's where these countries sometimes screw up.
|> 
|> The better your diplomacy and fighting skills, the more money you save
|> for tech production. A country that can make much tech without being
|> overrun must be ruled by a good player for that reason. That's the point.
|> Or ask Rob Watkins (a US player!). Looking at his play he knows this very
|> well.

A country that makes a lot of tech and doesn't get overrun is often just
lucky or has a powerful ally or two around.  It doesn't necessarily mean it
was run by a good player.  If someone wants to be a tech fiend, that's fine.
They just need to realize that they're taking a big chance.  If a powerful
country shows up on their doorstep, the little techie is ripe for picking.
If this doesn't happen, they come out with an advantage, but you're taking
a big chance with your country and you shouldn't be surprised if you get
burned.  Diplomacy only goes so far.  If you're in the way of a powerful
country and he's smart, diplomacy probably won't save you.

-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
(a.k.a. Ultima)
-----
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Cracker-Jack Empire, and other assorted topics...
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:09:02 GMT
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

In article <1992Sep15.164933.28848@athena.mit.edu> tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.071018.16146@daimi.aau.dk>, ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
>
>Your problem is that you're taking things far too personally.  If you keep
>letting people get to you like this, more and more people will start
>taunting you just to get a cheap thrill because they know they will get
>you to jump up and react.  All Ken did was ask a question to r.g.e about
>who the good non-US players were and you immediately read this as: "ALL
>NON-US PLAYERS SUCK."  You did this with a couple other comments, too.  If
>you're too self-conscious about your empire ego, maybe empire isn't the game
>for you -- empire is much more enjoyable if you can learn how to take
>criticism and not go nuts every time someone questions your ability.
>
>-----
>T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
>-----

I think his problem, and the problem of many of us that are accused
of taking the game too seriously is jerks like you, who like to instigate
flames and insult wars at the drop of a hat.  If there weren't people like
you, empire would be a lot more friendly, arguably more fun and definitely
less annoying.  Is it too much to ask for adults to be polite and considerate?
In the empire world it seems this way.

Jason -- Temekula
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: Help with double Updates.
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:39:01 GMT

        Quick question .. I just grabbed some new empire code ..
And when the demand updates are set to policy 1 .. the game updates
twice.   I'm not familiar with this code ..  What is the fix for this?  


/* runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu || fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu  */
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: People's big mouths...
Keywords: Krikkit... fodder....
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:39:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Land_Of_Faa.

So Krikkit says I'm fodder, eh?

Why am I fodder, Mikey? Just WHY?

Cause YOU say so? Ha!

It is to laugh. Go play with your code. You sure don't know how to play the 
game, so you might as well go code in some crap that makes you feel like a 
big important "man".

Anytime, anywhere Mikey baby... Anytime. I'll burn you to ashes
and THEN, well, you get the idea.

Oh, one more thing Mikey.. Say hi to your mom for me. I apologize for
breaking her arm off. Rigor and all..


Punk.

LOF
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:16:41 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BuFs3J.6M8@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:

>perpetual fodders:
>   Soxland
>   Orleanais
>   Baldric
>   Stuart_Hall

Don't forget:

Krikkit

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
From: ccastks@prism.gatech.EDU (Kevin Stallard, esq.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Test game
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:54:18 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


  After a grevious number of bugs, I fixed (fingers crossed) and recompiled
my test game.  I have started it over and here are a few things to remember.

Host: 139.88.30.210

Port: 1617

Countries 1-20

Reps: 1-20

No food

New map

EASY tech. (not linear, but close)

A wonderously funny deity :-) 

2 (60 etu) updates / day  (yes, it's a fast game)

...and a partridge in a pear tree.

Later,
  Lord Mac d'Elsinore

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Subject: Re: This recent BS ... and a new top 10 list
Keywords: Not another top 10 list ...  :(
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:00:00 GMT

Perhaps let us just say that this is evidence of a few Americans
boasting of their american arrogance.  Most of us american empire
players aren't like the few that are making these posts ...
Let me start a new flame war with a new top 10 list.  hahaha :

1.  Graahoeje  (non-american)
1.  Vulgaria   (non-american)
1.  AfrikaKorps
1.  Guzzer     (non-american)
1.  Dorsai
1.  Taliesyn   (non-american ... but will be after the invasion :))
1.  Shockwave
1.  Karadj     (sort-of non-american)
1.  The DWEEB
1.  Gunjin

50% non-americans.  So there Redtima ...

Well, i couldn't decide who was better, but all 10 are damn fine
players.  They've probably all won a game or two, or had good showings
in most of their outings.  Some may have lost due to lack of time, but
all are mostly classy guys.
So there, let the flames begin.
Oh, if i could have had 11 people, i would have added ...
Stronghold ... NOT!  hahaha ..

Jason -- Temekula

ps  Loving my retirement ... :(
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com (Corey Gehman)
Subject: Re: Euro III update (Week 4)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:18:57 GMT
Reply-To: cgehman@harris.mlb.semi.harris.com
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne  FL
Keywords: euro, market

>Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I could go on and on about this but I don't have all day.
>I will just say that one country out of 68 complaining about the time delayed
>market is a great percentage.  I will make one chage to the market in Euro IV.
>I will add a message to the "buy" command that says "Warning!  Self abuse of
>this command is a sure way to mess up your country"
>
>One other thing, any of the players in the game may feel free to post
>what they feel was going to become the "inevitable outcome"

I'd like to see a couple things added to the market.  First, the bidding system
is bad.  The way it works is for the first 12 hours, everyone can bid.  At the
end of the 12 hours, then the next bid triggers the sell.  The result is no one
bids on anything until the 12 hours is over (unless you are trying to raise the
price for everyone else), then you try to get to the game right after the
12 hours is up and make a $1 higher bid, and you get it.  The way it should
work, is when the 12 hours is up, the highest bidder (if there is one) should
get the goods at that time.  If there isn't a bidder then it stays in the market
until someone bids for it.

Another thing I'd like to see added, is a way for the SELLER to remove a sale
after the 12 hours is up.  A few people tried to sell things for too high of
a price and couldn't get rid of them without divine invention (or a deal with
someone else).

I'd also like to see, when you place a bid, for the TOTAL amount of the bid
(including taxes) to print out and then allow you to reconsider the bid.

Also, it needs to either deal with fractions or for the total amount instead
of per item.  There was a lot of sales for food at $2 each just because the
market needed the price raised to "bid higher".  And I've seen food go for $4
each because multiple people bidded on them.  The grain is too large for
some items.

The market has also been used in attacks, which I don't think should be
possible.  The strategy is to take someone else's warehouse/bank and put
everything up for sale.  The other country takes the sectors back, but
can't get his stuff back.  I don't like this, because it makes no sense.
Where are the goods?  If they aren't in the warehouse/bank where are they?
How did they get moved?  Who moved them?  Hey, that brings up an idea.  Why
not make putting things up for sale cost mobility?  That would solve this
complaint and also make some sense.


I think the market was useful, but extremely dangerous as it is in Euro III.


---
| Corey Gehman                       |
| cgehman@harris.mlb.semi.harris.com | The Amiga is dead.  Long live Sun.
| cgehman@huey.mis.semi.harris.com   |
From: rob@theo.ucsb.edu (Robert Buckles)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Help mapping sea squares?
Date: 14 Sep 92 08:05:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

In article <190revINN19f@agate.berkeley.edu> sowings@ocf.berkeley.edu (Sanford Owings) writes:
>Hello.  I am sort of new to the whole game of Empire and I just have a 
>simple question or two.
>
>1)   I have the knack of moving on land and mapping things out and 
>	exploring, but how do I do this at sea?  I know how to 
>	"lookout" from a ship and see any adjacent land squares,
>	but none of this shows up on my realm maps (if it's even in
>	a realm).  So my question is, how do I map sea sectors?
>
>2)   Also, it seems that at random times, I lose 10 BTU's.  I know
>	that I didn't invoke any costly commands (unless "nation"
>	costs 10), but those BTU's just fly away.  Is this a problem 
>	with my code???
>
>Help!
>
>           //  	Internet:  sowings@ocf.berkeley.edu | 
>   +      ||________________________________        |  
>  +|%%%%%%++________________________________>	    | 
>   +      ||   		Prince Valiant		    | 
>           \\  	 	Sanford Owings 	 	    | 	There can be only one. 

	Nice .sig, but you really should not ask these simple questions over thenet.
	For one, these basic things an empire player should learn in the first
few days on his own.  If you have questions, try to figure them out on your own
first.  RTFM.  Look up info.  If all fails, ask someone in your game.  DON'T
make an announcement, but pick someone (probably the guy in first place since
he has lot's of time... :) )  nd send a telegram.  That way, only he knows you
are fodder and won't bother with you, except to answer your questions.
If you want an immediate answer, clear your news and do news again in a minute
or so and see who's on...

	I only include this in the newsgroup instead of email because I see a
lot of beginners making annos of ridiculous things they want to know.

	To answer your question:
1:  The only way to see sea sectors on your map is to use a radar station,
or a ship to pass through a sea sector.  But still, it will only appear
on your bmap (which shows ALL your latest map info) .  You can only see
three sectors out from your land (maximum) if you are 100%, one sector if
you are 0%, and two if 50%... That is, with just your map.  The bmap will
keep a record of all radar images and ship navigations.

2:  Most commands use 1 btu.  e.g. move, navigate, etc.  Some use two or three
btus. e.g. recon, attack.  Some use none. e.g. cen, map, nation.

However, if you do a power new, it will cost 10 btus.

If this is not the case, your client updates your btus at certain intervals, 
but it still keeps an accurate record.

Don't worry about it.


If you have anymore questions, like I said, RTFM, talk to someone, or
consult your deity.

Good Luck.
.

Rob
Shockwave
From: fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:18:19 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <36989@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
> 
> Things to consider when playing Euro empire:
> 1)  All map-border countries have a huge advantage.
> 2)  The market is buggy and does not work at 100% predictability.
> 3)  Trade behaves like the market, except when it doesn't....
> 4)  The game has start areas of unequal sizes 10-25 sectors.
> 5)  Tech is oddly skewed.
> 6)  It is a fodder's kind of game...
> 7)  It has a good deity though (Thanks Pat).

  8)  Updates at good time for specific players only.  (Deitys' Fault??)
 
> What I would like to know is where have all the really good games gone?
> Harvard, Kent, Beach, and others were the sites of GREAT games!  If someone
> puts up a game that caters to US players and is *worth* winning then call
> us....(these games that wimp-out in some way to help the non-US players
> are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
> to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
> this topic).

        Yah?   Where'd all the good games go?  I haven't seen a good one 
for far too long.

/*      Believe It or Not    ||     runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu        */
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: deloura@noaapmel.gov (Robert DeLoura)
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA
	<18s7hjINN44l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> <1992Sep12.183744.23793@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:43:00 GMT

madpit@athena.mit.edu (Douglas R. Pitters) writes:
>In article <18s7hjINN44l@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, heinlein@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (The tired one) writes:
>|> HEY!  I think I remember this game... either this one, or one really
>|> close in time frame, where Ultima got blown down to 5 or so sectors,
>|> but wound up supplying someone or another with zillions of nukes... ;)
>	 Got it backwards Mike. Ultima blew Zenith down to 5 or so sectors,
> but then left for Christmas, and Zenith came back to supply the world with
> nukes...

Heh heh heh.  :-)   Of course, if Ultima hadn't left for Christmas, this
wouldn't have been nearly as successful.  Was kind of amusing having to
build back small "Zenith colonies" in the middle of several allied nations.

Remembering it almost makes me want to play Empire again.

Almost.

Still takes too much of a time commitment to play, though.
But if that ever changes, I'll be back!  And will promptly get myself kicked
all over the map due to not having played in a few years  :-)

--"Zenith"
deloura@noaapmel.gov
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: perry@ossi.com (Perry Tucker)
Subject: What's all the hassle?
Summary: WoW
Keywords: goofy dopy drippy Red who?
Organization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:26:24 GMT

Boy.  I have never seen more people so upset by someone being an 'ace'.
I thought Empire was a game that you had fun playing.  You did your best
and if Guzzer or RED ( who?) Nuked you or just ran over you then you learned
from it and moved on.   Who gives a shit who is the Best.  If you are better
than I then tell me what you did to kill me or let me learn for myself.

Empire is such and Imprecise game I don't see how anybody can really take
it seriuosly.  If you get put in the right spot,  It
doesn't matter who you are,  you die.

Just my 2 cents worth.  I am FODDER but I love to play.  

==perry

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: laitinen@cae.wisc.edu (Tero Mikko Laitinen)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:42:27 CDT

In article <36989@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski) writes:
>
>If someone
>puts up a game that caters to US players and is *worth* winning then call
>us....(these games that wimp-out in some way to help the non-US players
>are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
>to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
>this topic).
>

Are you saying that if the best two players happen to be yanks, all the games
should be played with their rules and according to their schedule!?  Besides,
I don't quite see, how these 'wimp' games help the non-US players.  I thought
that rotating updates are the same to everyone: as many at the daytime as at 
the night time.  Of course, if your idea of fair match is killing out all
european players because they can't catch any updates but you can, that
sounds slightly odd.  But who am I, an arrogant european bastard, to critizise
allmighty Redline.

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _Made in Redline_  "When you've beaten the best, who cares about the rest..."
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	mikko
	Sioux
From: kb@thedog.cis.ufl.edu (Ken Bukauski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:41:26 GMT
Organization: Redline Parthenon Assembly Team


Ultima describes the Macedon situation in the Euro^3 game quite well.
Macedon was attacked by Egypt, Urartu, Ukraine, Romania, Czechers,
and Denmark at last czech :)  All in all, Macedon was about to become
completely dominant and was pre-empted.  It is important to note that this
country followed no traits established by Ultima or Redline.

The game itself was an interesting idea, however the very concept is flawed
to a certain degree.  Sure Macedon pointed out some bugs and was penalized as
a result, but from a Redline point of view the game isn't worth winning.
Therefore the Ultima and Redline tag-team gave threw the royal wrench into
the machine (as permitted by the code) after making this determination.

Things to consider when playing Euro empire:
1)  All map-border countries have a huge advantage.
2)  The market is buggy and does not work at 100% predictability.
3)  Trade behaves like the market, except when it doesn't....
4)  The game has start areas of unequal sizes 10-25 sectors.
5)  Tech is oddly skewed.
6)  It is a fodder's kind of game...
7)  It has a good deity though (Thanks Pat).

What I would like to know is where have all the really good games gone?
Harvard, Kent, Beach, and others were the sites of GREAT games!  If someone
puts up a game that caters to US players and is *worth* winning then call
us....(these games that wimp-out in some way to help the non-US players
are a waste of time.  Besides, have any non-US players even proven themselves
to be among the best of the community?  I'd like to hear some discussions on
this topic).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 _Made in Redline_  "When you've beaten the best, who cares about the rest..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:56:49 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark


I am sorry to use bandwidth for this, but a reply email bounced......


mytelka@codon9 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110) writes:

>In article <1992Sep10.104344.11823@daimi.aau.dk> ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:
>>
>>Now, for one thing, Redline claimed that NO non-US players were among
>>the best of the community.
>>
>>
>>Now down to business:
>>
>>I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
>>that my wife and child won't like......:( ):
>>

>I'm no Redline, but if you're willing to take on a next echelon US player to
>prove your competence and can find a machine to play on, I'm willing to accept
>your challenge. I'm better than at least 90% of the US players anyway.

>It'd be a fairer contest in its own right, since I have a wife and outside
>commitments as well (Of course, she's a good empire player in her own right-
>the only non-allied survivor of your last Sweden SlowEmp game).

>>BUT the conditions of the game need to be such, that I have a chance to
>>perform as best I can.
>>Which means:
>>
>>ROTATING UPDATES (yes, I know Redlien thinks those sthink...but if he wants
>>to claim he is better than someone we need equal terms).

>If you'd like. I'm also willing to play a gentleman's game, and dispense
>with around the update attacks if you'd like. Conditions similar to the
>recent Temekula-Stronghold world setup might be good- two 50-100 sector
>start islands and little or no other land. Plenty of resources, but not
>perfect worlds (yech).

>>AT LEAST 6 DAYS BETWEEN UPDATES (I simply can't manage anymore....
>>I PROMISED my wife this would be the last Empire game for some time).

>Fine with me; I'm busy too.

>>
>>And I need to wait some time before this challenge game can start......
>>I am currently playing the ALberta Invitational.....I need that to
>>finish first, and I need my wife to calm down after that one....:)
>>

>Well, in theory I'm playing in UAlb too, but I haven't done anything since
>the third week.

>>
>>Now some additional comments:
>>1) A one-one challenge will NEVER prove who is the better player in an
>>   ordinary game, but just maybe it will settle this criticism of NON-US
>>   players.

>True, but it some ways it is a better criterion of inherent skill, rather
>than that derived from preconceived alliances.

>>
>>Claus/The King of Graahoeje
>>(maybe not the best of Empire players but at least I have my pride)

>Dan Mytelka (mytelka@enzyme.berkeley.edu, Langerhans)


Sure...why not.....If the 3 versus 3 game comes up, then I will have
to play that first off course.

And the "no update attacks sounds fine to me".....jsut need a precise
definition.

You know what my wife hates so much about my Empire-playing????

I can never let down on a challenge...thats why I'm playing the UAlberta
game in the first place.....

Claus