From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Thanks Karla
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:49:06 GMT

sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach) writes:

: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes about partners of survivors, talking
: about how hard their job is, and making them sound a little too much
: like angels for me to stomach.  Maybe it's just my bias, as I explain
: later on.  Some point-by-point comments, for the audience, and for Ed,
: if he wants them:
: 
: >I have walked down the road a ways with a few survivors.  It's like
: >walking a tightrope - you have to be very perceptive, very alert, very
: >understanding, and very empathic.  You have to be all of these things--
: >say/think/feel/do the right things at the right times.  Your timing
: >has to be precise.  You have to know when to care and when not to.
: >When to love and when not to.  When to hold, and when not to.  When
: >to listen and respond to the cries for help inherent in "leave me alone" --
: >and when to just leave the survivor alone.  You have to be more than a
: >little bit psychic (and being telepathic helps, too!).  Knowing that at
: >any moment a wrong look, a wrong touch, a wrong word could trigger
: >your partner to dump you - perhaps forever.
: 
: As a survivor, as a human, I don't want my friends and lovers walking
: a tighrope around me -- the tension would drive them crazy, unless
: they thrived on it.  If they thrive on it, they are thriving on my
: pain, and we have a serious conflict of interest.

I don't think anyone thrives on the tension - yes, it drives people crazy,
but they stick because they love you and care about you, not because they
thrive on it.  No one wants to walk a tightrope, but sometimes it's
necessary.

: Yes, I'm hypersensitive in some areas.  It wont take you too long to
: learn where those areas are and avoid them.  (I know it can be a

If you are a survivor that communicates well, you are in a very small
minority.  Some survivors *think* they communicate well, but the
testimony of those close to them tells quite a different story, unfortunately.

: problem when one of the areas is sex, and sex with me is important to
: you, but that's the way it is.  Maybe you can find an area that's
: undamaged.  Why is sex so important to you anyway?)  

Sex isn't an important area for me, but is a very important (and very sensitive)
area for most survivors, so it must be dealt with very carefully.  Many
survivors are frightened (and even disgusted) by the idea of sex, and
female survivors typically see most men as "only wanting one thing".  It's
important to establish early on that that isn't the case.

: Of course, if I'm using you to push my buttons, as part of a
: destructive pattern or as part of my healing process (kind of like
: scratching), I'll be manipulating you in such complex ways your
: telepathy isn't going to help.  Sorry.  Good luck dealing.

So I won't let you manipulate me.  I'll be myself, and if you can't deal,
that's life.

: >I don't think survivors understand how tough the job is, being their
: >partner.  All they can see is the abuse - they can't see how their reactions
: >to that abuse hurts those who love them.
: 
: Please don't generalize like that.
: 
: Many surivivors see very clearly how tough if it is to be their
: partner, when partner after partner gives up.  Also, many people
: exclusively date survivors of similar (or complementary) abuse,
: whether they know it or not.  Who is being tough on who, here?

Not really.  People in general tend to blame others for their own problems.
If partner after partner gives up, why, it must be *their* problem!  That's
human nature.  It's also human nature to not be able to see past one's own
pain.

Many people date survivors exclusively because they have what is called in
counseling circles "the superman/messiah complex" - they think that they
can solve all of a survivors problems for them.  When the relationship
falls apart, they move onto another, trying the same thing.

As to who's doing the more accurate generalizations, who's dealt with more
survivors, you or me?

: >I dated a woman two years ago
: >who had been severely molested by her uncle - abuse that had lasted for
: >years.  I was kind, gentle, caring, compassionate - those very qualities
: >in me triggered her to push me away.  Why?  Simple - my kindness, etc.
: >were the same traits her abuser displayed in order to get her to trust
: >him enough for him to "do his thing" to her.
: 
: I'm sorry.  :-( 

I am, too ... still :(

: I tend to fall in love primarily with young men who are visibly
: tortured by the remains of their childhood sexual abuse.  I've seen
: them attacked by their ghosts and forced to reject me to save
: themselves.  It hurts like hell.  (And it forced me to questions why I
: was falling in love with them, and begin the long road of my own
: recovery.  I'm about 17,000 miles down that road know.  Does someone
: have a map handy, so I can see how much farther I have to go?  :-)

Ah!  You're looking for a road map.  Hmm, well, that I can't give you, but
perhaps you can gauge your own progress by how successful your relationships
are as compared to, say, a year or two ago.  Might help.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"