HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: removing cylinders & old question
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:24:57 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <star.714756835@husc9>  star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
> I have two questions:  the first is how does one remove a cylinder?

Mortice cylinder:  On the side of the door, in line with the center of the
lock, there will be a screw head.  (It might be covered with a plate that
you have to remove.)  Unscrew this until the head is out about 1/4", then
you can unscrew the cylinder from the door.  (Note that Best locks have
a security feature in which there can be an additional setscrew in the side
of the lock that can only be removed with the core out.)

Rim cylinder:  Remove the lock from the inside of the door, and there will
be 2 screws going through a metal plate then through the door and into
the cylinder.  Remove these screws.

Key-in-knob locks:  It varies; in general, look for a small hole on the neck
between the knob and the rose.  If there's one on the outside of the door,
you can generally press down on a small latch (you might have to turn the
knob or the key in order to get it lined up properly) to pop the knob
off; it should be obvious from there.

Padlocks:  It varies; try looking down the shackle hole for a screw head.
Most cheap padlocks are not made to allow for cylinder removal.

> Second:  I've asked this before, but no one had an answer, though others
> voiced the same problem.  That is, I've had problems on some locks, ( usually
> well worn locks), that after I have the lock picked, the cylinder doesn't turn
> far enough to retract the bolt.  It is as if some of the pins get caught
> again, but there is no sound, and it turns back fine.  What's happening?

If you turned it 180 degrees, it's probably the pins getting caught in the
bottom of the keyway - use the back of a hook pick to press them up and
enable you to continue turning.  If not, perhaps it takes more force than
the turning wrench can apply - once you have it picked, use a small
screwdriver to turn the cylinder & retract the bolt.  Also, I assume you
checked with a key and you're turning in the right direction?

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Some questions.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:10:27 GMT

cfiddyme@neumann.une.edu.au (Chris Fiddyment) writes:
: 
:   I have been a novice lock-picker for a while now and after seeing this news 
:   group I have a few questions.
: 
:   First of all are all those fancy picks and rakes neccesary for a begginer.
:   I have made a tension wrench and a few picks from street sweeper
:   bristles. (All this time I could never work out where these pieces of 
:   metal came from) Is this all that is necessary.

No, they are not all necessary. However, they can make life easier. Some
picks fit into particular keyways easier than others. Also, the amount of
"hook" on the end can make picking a particular lock easier or harder.
Ideally, you want to be able to pick the back pins, without disturbing
those closer to the keyway opening.

:   Are rakes simply a straight pick with a few bumps on the end.

Not quite, the technique is different - as is implied by the name.

:   Is there any special techniqus(sp) for using these or is it just luck.
:   That seems to be the way for me at the moment.

Rakes tend to be just luck - you are hoping that all the pins will line up
at once. However, it is usually possible to rake the first few pins, then
individually pick the rest.

:   When picking the pins how much tension is needed. I have a lock at home and
:   if I put gentle tension on it I can pick the back pin easily but then I find 
:   that all of the other pins are stuck and I have to release tension to push
:   them in. Also sometimes a pin will just bounce up and down on the springs
:   no matter how much or little tension I have. Why is this?

The tension can vary - but novices tend to use far too much.

If you pick a pin, then have to release the pressure to pick any more, then
you cannot pick that pin first. That is, assuming that the pin you picked
falls back down.

If a pin just bounces up and down, then the core has not turned enough for
it to catch. Pick one or two of the other pins first, then try that pin
again.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: cmarsigl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Klif Marsiglio)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 07:32:28 GMT

If its like all the librarys around here, there should be a very small thim
strip of magnetic tape somewhere in the spine -- most of the time you would 
whole thing open just to find it (I'm glad I know how to rebind books once
I get it back to my home :)

If you really dont want to destroy them, a friend has a tape head demagnatizer
which he uses to take things home with, but you can't do the fun tricks like
getting out the tape putting it in someones books they own and then watch them
get confiscated when they try to leave :)

Happy book theft,

     Klif Marsiglio

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:05:25 GMT

In article <JEFF.92Aug31150943@claw.clearpoint.com> jeff@claw.clearpoint.com writes:
=Let's face it, the average intruder just breaks a side window and
=crawls in.  He is not going to care whether you have different locks
=on the doors or not.  Once inside, he will either open the door, or,
=if he can't open it from the inside either, pass the stuff out the
=window to an accomplice and then trash the house just for fun.
=
=H> different keys?  If they are on the same key ring, or in the same
=H> pocketbook, then someone who obtains one key almostly certainly gets
=H> both at the same time, negating this security approach.  (While if
=H> the husband carried one key, the wife the other and they had to be
=H> there at the same time to open the door there certainly would be an
=H> increase in security, although perhaps an unbearable inconvenience. :-)
=
=Better yet, why not a system where each person carries a seperate key,
=one key hole cannot be reached from the other, and the two keys must
=be turned within 2 seconds of eachother.  If not, a silent alarm would
=go off alerting the police who would pick up the frustrated would-be
=robber still trying to figure out why the key doesn't work.  Now that
=would be security :).

But then what do you do if the intruder breaks the window? ;-)

"Locks prevent honest people from entering."
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: plugs
From: star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star)
Date: 29 Aug 92 15:00:16 GMT
Keywords: plug, pins, lock
Summary: how to keep plugs in cylinders

Recently, I disassembled a few locks which had pins that were too immobile
to pick.  In order to take the plug out of one lock, I had to either
pick the lock, or drill through some metal that were retaining the pins.
In fact, I drilled it, which was surprisingly easy, but is this standard
practice?  You might say: "standard practice would be to pick it"  but there
was one long pin at the back ... in the seventh slot .. that was unpickable.
It was only in the cylinder to retain the plug.  So one question is ..
Did I have to drill? and if yes,  How does one fill in the holes after?

I noticed some interesting things when I took the plug out and the
spring loaded pins went flying.  One was that there were a few small balls
that flew out.  About the size of B-B's that fit in the pin slots.  Are
these some kind of anti-picking device?   How do they thwart picking?

Putting the lock back together let me make some observations... tell me if
I'm wrong.: 1) the size of the top half of the pin doesn't affect the keying.
(I mean the half that will be raised above the shear line.)
2) it is very difficult to reach into this small space in the cylinder and
deposit spring, then pin in the right slot, and hold it down while trying
to fit the plug in to hold it.  To do all six pins would be very hard like
this.  I don't have any special tools other than tweezers and the like.  Is
there something a lot more sophisticated out there that the locksmiths are
using?

I remember someone saying once that a grand-mastered key
system didn't have to be less secure than a mastered one.  But it seems
like, unless the warding was just different in the sides, it would have to be.

Finally, as I mentioned above: one of the locks I took apart had a long,
unpickable pin in the back that retained the plug.  Another had a latch that
screwed into the back of the plug, and was larger than it, therefore
retaining it in the cylinder.  Are there other methods that the plug is
retained in the cylinder?
Josh.


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Re: removing cylinders & old question
Organization: NCSU Computing Center - Adams' Family Club
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:16:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.164111.21711@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
>: I have two questions:  the first is how does one remove a cylinder?
>
>The answer totally depends on the model of the lock.

  But it almost always involves some degree of disassembly of the
lock.  A key-in-knob usually needs to have the knob come off, and
a cylinder going through the door is usually held in with screws from
the back or the side.  If you take the entire lock completely apart
it will usually be clear how to remove the cylinder.
> ...

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: sidebars
Summary: how does a sidebar work
Keywords: sidebar lock
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:32:13 GMT

I don't understand exactly how a sidebar works.  The way I understand it,
tension on a plug of a lock with a sidebar doesn't put tension at the
shear line ... therefore not producing a ledge to hold the picked pins on.
But the sidebar must somehow know when the key is inserted, and the pins
are effectively picked... how does it do this if no tension is at the shear
line.  In other words, the way I see it, something must put tension at the
shear line when the plug is (tried to be) turned.  So how does a sidebar work?

And how about pick guns:  anyone have experiences with them worth commenting
on?  How do they compare to "the old fashioned" method.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: ericc@Arco.COM (Chang Eric(214)754-3562)
Subject: How to rekey commercial lock?
Organization: ARCO Oil and Gas Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:22:15 GMT

I need to rekey a commercial lock to fit a key that was given to me by
the proprietor.  The lock is a brand that I am not familiar with (Smith-
Adams).  It fits in an aluminum framed glass door, and is like the ones
which are on most restaurant/shop/motel swinging doors.  It does not look
like a residential deadbolt at all (which I am familiar with).  There are 3
screws on the jamb section, and none on the inside face.  Is this lock easy
to remove and rekey?  How is it done?  Thanks in advance.     Eric

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company
	<1992Aug30.192804.10456@waikato.ac.nz>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:06:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.192804.10456@waikato.ac.nz> spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia) writes:
[re magnetic-based(?) theft prevention systems]
   Another interesting point is that some of the units effect walkmans
   (or maybe "some walkmans", certainly my Sony.  You're walking thru the
   sensor, and you'll hear a "clock clock clock" sometimes.  Of course,
   it could be some anarchist with a bomb just pissing me around...

The 3M units in use here tick every time someone walks over the pressure
mat between the reader fork.  I guess the idea for the pressure mat is
that people walking near the device with "active" books don't set it off
unless they are trying to get out of the door.

Just a side note, the units in use in stores are different (aluminum foil
LC-pairs) from the magnetic systems, as they don't need to be re-activated.
Most stores just put a foil "OK" sticker on top of the alarm sticker, but
some use a high-current electric zapper to burn a foil bridge inside the
sticker.  Both change the frequency of the LC pair enough so as not to
set off the alarms.
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1579 alt.folklore.urban:22827
From: grimjack@milton.u.washington.edu (Leslie Basel)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: The lady with 7 locks
Keywords: locks, keys
Date: 4 Sep 92 05:52:20 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Sep2.220213.24003@acuson.com> lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson) writes:
>In article <BtwtCy.9w4@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:
>
>>Of course this assumes that the burglar can't determine that a given
>>lock was already unlocked and his picking has locked it.
>
>That is the part that gives me doubts.  Most, if not all, new locks
>(changes may occur over time) lock and unlock in the same directions.
>I don't have any handy, but if I recall correctly, locks in the US on
>the left side of the door (from the outside) tend to lock clockwise and
>unlock counterclockwise.
>
>I specify the side of the door because the are exceptions to the norm
>(which in the US is doors open into the room/house and have hinges on
>the right when viewed from outside), and the rotation direction
>probably depends on which way the bolt is going.
>
>
Ah, but you forgot about apartments with doors facing across the hall -
they will both have locks on the same side of the building but one will
have the lock on the left as entering and the other will have the lock
on the right. and there are locks available that lock when you turn them
clockwise then unlock if you turn them clockwise again (same for counter-
clockwise).

Rodger Coghlan
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: removing cylinders & old question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 16:41:11 GMT

star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
: I have two questions:  the first is how does one remove a cylinder?

The answer totally depends on the model of the lock.

: Second:  I've asked this before, but no one had an answer, though others
: voiced the same problem.  That is, I've had problems on some locks, ( usually
: well worn locks), that after I have the lock picked, the cylinder doesn't turn
: far enough to retract the bolt.  It is as if some of the pins get caught      
: again, but there is no sound, and it turns back fine.  What's happening?

Have you tried to turn the knob, once the lock is picked? I have seen quite
a few locks where you could not retract the bolt by just using the key.

Also, if there is just a little wear in the retract mechanism, then knob
assist may be necessary.

Bill
From: holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu (Richard Holowczak)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Car Alarms. Advice Needed
Summary: Car Alarms. Advice Needed
Keywords: Car alarm
Date: 3 Sep 92 04:12:19 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

Hello there all of you locksmiths. Others might have asked
this in the past but I must have missed it being kind of new
to this whole news thing.  Here goes:

I am looking to purchase an alarm for my Acura Legend. I have
a budget of about 300 - 400 dollars and would like to stick close
to it if possible.  I called 4 dealers and the all told me the
same story about different alarms.  It went something like this:

"We only sell brand X because Y and Z really suck"

"We only sell brand Z because we had so many problems with X and Y"

. . . 

You get the picture.  The few that were recommended are:

Ungo Box
VSE Derringer/2
Viper
Clifford Intelligaurd 200

The features I'm looking for are: Switch protection for Hood, Trunk,
and doors, ignition kill, remote arm/disarm, sensor "zones" (Where,
for example, if you have a christmas tree in your trunk and you can't
shut it, the alarm will still arm and protect the rest of the car),
a passive or active option and some sort of shock or shatter sensor
for window breakage and body shock (like jacking up to steal tires,
etc.).  This sensor should be easily adjustable to avoid false
alarms by big trucks passing by, thunder, wind and low flying
aircraft.  I have read about some alarms having the smarts to
disable a sensor after being tripped a certain number of times. That
is not super important but would be nice.

Too much for $400? I hope not.  I realize that the installation is
probably the most important feature of all so I'm being very picky
about that.  Any other suggestions? (please!)

Thank you for your time,

Rich Holowczak
holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Subject: Disassembling Corbin & Russwin locksets
Keywords: Corbin Russwin $@?##*!!!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:51:49 GMT

Okay, I give up.  I've disassembled Schlage and Kwikset locksets with
little difficulty, but I can't figure out the Russwins and Corbins.  Both
seem to be used interchangeably where I work; one door in my office has 
a Corbin knob on the hall side and a Corbin bolt, but a Russwin knob on
the inside.  I presume they are made by the same manufacturer (a lock
analogue to Chevrolet and Pontiac in the auto world).

I've managed to get as far as removing the bolt from the door by taking
out the two screws holding it in place and twisting it 90 degrees, then
I run into a brick wall.  There is a hole in the side of the doorknob,
but it doesn't seem to do anything (there's nothing that feels like
a release mechanism when I poke it with a straightened paper clip).

What next?  I would guess removing the knob would involve inserting
the key and turning it some amount, then poking some sort of release
mechanism that is exposed in the hole where the bolt was.  After 90
minutes of poking around, I can't find anything.

In case you're wondering:  YES, I have the key, in fact I (legitimately)
have a master for the building.  YES, I have a valid reason for taking
it apart -- I just found out that any student key that opens the door
in the graduate office room opens my office, and there's some expensive
computers in my office.  Our locksmithing shop is extremely overworked,
and it will be months before my request gets processed, so I'd like to
remove a few wafers and prevent the student key from opening my door.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:36:48 GMT
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <Btt5K1.IGM@hatch.socal.com>, richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
 writes:
>
>On my house, I have all 4 (plus the garage) keyed alike.  IMHO, this
>is the proper way to do it. *I* don't want to have to carry a bunch
>of similar keys, and have to fumble for 2 keys each time I open the
>door.  Other friends disagree, and want all locks different.

I have all of my deadbolts keyed alike for the same reasons you do yours.  Many
nonresidents of my house have keys to my house, and I don't want to complicate
their lives any time I need them to come in and take care of the dogs.  I also
feel that if someone really wants to get into the house, they'll do it
regardless of how I have my house keyed.  So, I want to make my life easier on
a day-by-day basis, but I have those deadbolts to slow down intrusions a bit.

Katie
From: pwd@Apple.com (Patrick W. P. Dirks)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Where's Kenco, Lincoln Neb.?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:01:51 GMT
Followup-To: alt.locksmithing
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

Hi,

    There was a reference to a "Kenco" locksmithing supply in Lincoln
Nebraska recently.  The number listed, (402) 466-2737, is appearantly for a
courier/trucking company.  I've also tried 800 directory assistance and
ended up at a medical supply house in Lincoln, Neb.  I'm looking for a
company that carries a decent selection of picks and locksmithing supplies,
including Best locks, and was hoping Kenco would be the place.

    Has anyone actually dealt with this Kenco outfit?  Any address or phone
number would be greatly appreciated.  Please post or reply to
pwd@Apple.com.

Thanks a lot,
-Pat Dirks.
From: chris.mathis@madness.network23.com (Chris Mathis) 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: ...
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:18:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Terminal Madness BBS - Newport, RI - 401-848-9069
Reply-To: chris.mathis@madness.network23.com (Chris Mathis) 


->       I'll pay big $ for anybody who can pick my bosses lock.

 Ahem.... Ed,  this is your boss. Chris... Are you planning anything?
We need to talk...

*......................................................................*
 Chris Mathis
 UUCP  : chris.mathis@madness.network23.com        It's only a
 BBS   : Terminal Madness BBS                            hobby,
         Middletown, RI  USA                         It's only a
 Node1 : 401)848-9069  v32bis,v42bis 14400 bps              hobby...
 Node2 : 401-847-4902  v32bis,v42bis 14400 bps
*......................................................................*
               
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing