From: hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven  hauptfeld)
Subject: Re: Good evening
Reply-To: hau4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:33:17 GMT

In article <j1moody-161192032948@lafmacconsultant.lafortune.lab.nd.edu> j1moody@darwin.cc.nd.edu (Joe Moody) writes:
>
>Hello everyone, let me first say that I am not an atheist, but still
>respect
>other's beliefs.

You don't need to appologize. Smart people will not assume that you don't
respect other's beliefs simply because you are not an atheist, and being an
atheist doesn't mean one respects other's beliefs.

> Actually, sometimes I think the atheists do more thinking
>than some religious simply because it takes effort to deny one's Creator.

It takes effort to assert the existance of one, too.

>I'm a humble man, not one to condemn, judge or hurt. 

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but your sentence is ambiguous. "Not one to" can
mean "not one who would" as well as "not one who should be (+ passive)". I
assume you mean the former.

>I believe in patience. I believe in showing mercy, even if that just means
>forgetting a harsh word that slipped from a friend's mouth. I believe in 
>moderation, prayer and charity. I believe that every man and woman I meet
>is a brother and sister, even if they think they're my enemy. And I
>know I'm far from perfect, all-knowing or all-powerful. 

This is all fine in principle, but in some situations it just fails. For
example, if you were one of the victims of that man who walked into a Texas
restaurant and shot the people inside one by one, would you die thinking that
he is your brother? Or more complex: if you had a gun while he was shooting
another patron and not looking at you, would you shoot him? If yes, what does
it mean that he is your "brother"? If not, wouldn't you be an accomplice in
murder and even a perpetrator of suicide?

>The system I found closest to where I feel "at home" is Christianity, and
>I've come to love Jesus as my Savior, even if He gets a bad rap by 
>televangelists. 

Okay, I agree that televangelists have nothing to do with Jesus. But consider
this situation:

A man in shabby clothes comes at your door and says he hasn't eaten for days.
DO YOU LET HIM IN AND FEED HIM?
Let's assume you do. Now he says he hasn't bathed in weeks and hasn't changed
his clothes and he is ashamed of that.
DO YOU OFFER HIM TO TAKE A BATH IN YOUR BATHTUB?
DO YOU GIVE HIM SOME OF YOUR CLOTHES?
Let's assume you do. He says he hasn't slept inside for days, he has no money
to stay anywhere and is afraid to go to a nearby shelter bacause another 
homeless man beat him up there a week ago.
DO YOU OFFER HIM TO SLEEP IN YOUR HOUSE?
Let's assume you do. In the middle of the night, you here noise. You get up
and find him stealing your money.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
Let's assume you don't throw him out... In the morning, he wakes you up
holding a knife, and orders you to leave your house.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
How far are you willing to follow Jesus' teaching?

>I see an old lady, with eyes that saw the great depression, the industrial
>revolution and the moon landing, now being laughed at by her grand
>children who'd rather play Nintendo and scoffed at by her adult children
>who have no time for her or her cross and beads that she clings so tightly
>to, unchanging.

But I bet all of them would say they are Christians. Am I right?

> But a small group of brothers and sisters visit her
>regularly to
>pray, laugh and talk about her lifetime of experience. 
>I've worked in the homeless
>shelters full of gentle people who got mixed up in society and now only
>the Hope Rescue Mission, it's burnt-out neon cross lit above the door, will
>serve them plates of warm food. I guess my point to all this is that one
>can really be religious without being some of the horrible things I've read
>on this
>board,

The same is true for atheists - and you can read horrible things about them
on this board, too - even though people who post those *know* that they are
abusing the unmoderated character of it.

> and I hope at least you could except that and not label me as 
>another God-fearing-lunatic.

Why do you need our approval? I see nothing wrong with you - at least nothing
unusual. I bet, however, that someone *will* think of you as a lunatic. So
what? You can't satisfy everybody.

> Because, yes I fear God, but I love my
>family, I love life, and I love the direction Christ has given me. 
>Good Evening and peace,
>
>Joe

Most people reading this and posting here are well-intentioned and don't even
think of hating you or people who share your beliefs. Every normal person
knows that Pat Robertson does not equal Christianity. So there are bad news
and good news for you:

Bad news: your posting was unnecessary.
Good news: it is fortunate that it is so.

Take it easy,

	Sven

Newsgroups: alt.atheism