HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimf@cbnewse.cb.att.com (james.r.fehrenbacher)
Subject: SOUTHERN ILLINOIS - MISSOURI VALLEY - MID CONTINENT
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:31:38 GMT


Southern Illinois is 3 - 0, allblowouts so far.  Senior 6' 8" forward 
Ashraf Amaya, Valley player of the year last year, had 32 points 14 boards at
Eastern Illinois and 39 points, 15 boards, 4 blocks at Northern Illinois (a
29 point crushing). Great shooter, great rebounder, great defensive player -
an NBA player. Has the whole team back from last year - along with some
excellent 3pt shooter type recruits. Picked to win the Valley this year 
again - and considerably stronger than last year.

The schedule gets tougher now with St. Louis, Evansville, Mississippi,
San Juan Shootout, and Missouri coming up before conference play.

SW Missouri and Illinois St appear to be the competition. SW just whipped
Oregon St, Illinois St lost to DePaul by 1 and got blown out by Evansville,
surprisingly. Indiana St appears to have the best team they've had in a long
time - beat Evansville recently. Tulsa and Wichita will be much improved.
Bradley, Creighton, Drake, and N. Iowa bring up the bottom.

prediction:

Southern Illinois - NCAA
SW Missouri - NCAA
Illinois St - NIT
Tulsa
Indiana St
Wichita
N. Iowa
Drake
Bradley
Creighton


Mid Continent:

UIC and Wright St are much improved. UW-GB will be weaker without
Tony Bennett (Charlotte Hornets.) (Saw Tony play against the Bulls last
night - personally think he's a much better player than Gill or Bogues - 
they just don't play him much. Gill looked like shit - Bogues had a
good game. Bennett is a better passer and shooter than either of these
guys. For some reason, Charlotte had Bennett guarding Rodney 
McCray - 9 inches and 100 lbs advantage. Duh.)

prediction:

UIC - NCAA
Wright St - NIT
UW-Green Bay
Cleveland ST
Eastern Illinois
Northern Illinois
Western Illinois
Valparaiso
From: suffridge@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Rick.Suffridge)
Subject: Re: Best Conference
Organization: NCR MCPD Columbia SC.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:13:35 GMT

dew6c@topaz.cs.Virginia.EDU (Dallas E. Wrege) writes:
: In article <1992Dec17.123054.21170@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> suffridge@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Rick.Suffridge) writes:
: > One of the best regular season performances by a conference that I can 
: > remember was the ACC in the '85-86 season.  Duke, UNC, and GaTech were
: > ranked #1,2,and 3 for much of the season.  Each was #1 for at least some
: 
: That's not quite the way I remember it...  North Carolina and Duke had
: excellent seasons - this is true - but Tech did not do nearly as well
: as expected.  They came off their 1985 ACC Championship season in
: which they beat North Carolina 3 times and lost to eventual champion
: Georgetown in the Sweet Sixteen.  They had Mark Price and John Salley
: coming back for their senior years, and yes, they were pre-ranked
: number 1 by many polls - in everybody's top 5.  But it was a miserable
: year for them...  They lost nearly half their conference games, lost
: in the first round of the ACC tourney (if I remember correctly), and
: they lost in either the first or second round of the NCAA's.  That may
: have been the year that they lost to their nemesis, the Richmond
: Spiders.  Anyway, I don't think that '85-86 was a particularly banner
: year for the ACC.
: 

While Tech did not quite meet the expectations of a preseason #1 I would 
hardly call it a miserable year.  As late as early Feb I believe they 
were still ranked in the top 3 and they didn't lose anywhere near half
of their league games.  They finished either 2nd or 3rd in the ACC (Duke
was first).  I don't remember how they did in the ACC tourney but they 
finished the season ranked #5 or 6 and got a 2-seed in the NCAA's.  They
made the Sweet 16 before being upset by LSU.
-- 
Richard D. Suffridge   803-791-6491  <suffridge@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>                                  
From an AP report:  Gore ... asked voters skeptical of their promise of
change to remember that every communist government in Eastern Europe had
fallen in 100 days. "Now it's our turn here in the United States," he said.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: richarje@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (JT)
Subject: Re: Duke tops AP and USA Today/CNN polls... Michigan tumbles
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:07:34 GMT


xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)writes:
Actually, the killer is the 24 second clock. I'd be willing to bet that no
college team could consistently free up their best offensive threat for a
shot within 24 seconds against any NBA team. That means the off people are
taking the shots as the clock winds down, if they get a shot off at all.


Then we'll have Troy State (AL) play :^)

JT
From: rjm1@acpub.duke.edu (ROBERT MACKENNA)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Basketball lovers dreamland
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:31:19 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Dec14.21135.15633@ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
>Yea, its called Kentucky.

...where the people have satellite dishes to get Raycom's ACC coverage.

- Rob Mac K


-- 
*ROB Mac K - The Man, The Myth, The Legend.  As if. ***********************
*        [}uke             1991 National Champions      "Wekickus         *
*          Blue Devils:    1992 National Champions           Sumassus"    *
****************************************************** rjm1@acpub.duke.edu*
From: drune@red4.acpub.duke.edu (Dain Runestad)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: FISHER-MICHIGAN (was Michigan doesn't play as a team)
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:17:56 GMT
Reply-To: drune@red4.acpub.duke.edu (Dain Runestad)


In article <1992Dec17.161248.48956@watson.ibm.com>, Christopher J. Born writes:
|> 
|> Just a few thoughts about this thread:
|> 
|> flame on:
|> 
|> /*FLAME DELETED*/
|>
|> flame off:
|> 
|> We can all THINK Steve Fisher is an awesome coach or a great coach or
|> a bad coach, but we all KNOW one thing (at least) and that is that
|> he HAS a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.  
	I hate to mention this, but the only reason he has a national
championship is because good ole Bill Freider decided he'd rather lose big games
at Arizona State.  Basically, Fisher won the championship because he let the
team do what it wanted.  No coaching skill involved.  Unfortunately for you
Michigan fans, he's still doing nothing.  Now, however, something is needed.

	der
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Subject: Re: RPI Ranking System Scores 12/8/92
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:45:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.194412.24881@samba.oit.unc.edu> George.Harris@launchpad.unc.edu (George Harris) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.194146.12265@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day) writes:
>>In article <matthew.724008207@base.cs.ucla.edu> matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu  
>>(Matthew Merzbacher) writes:
>>> paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul) writes:
>>> 
>>> >   Here's a preliminary look at how the RPI scores are shaping up.
>>> 
>>> >Rnk. Name                          RPI     W  L  OW OL    F1     F2     F3
>>> >247. Air Force                     0.2000  0  2   0  3   0.0000 0.0000  
>>0.5000
>>> 
>>> >252. Northern Arizona              0.1800  1  1   0  2   0.5000 0.0000  
>>0.2000
>>
>>One of the things that I didn't understand about this was the OW - 
>>does the opponents win over Air Force or Northern Arizona count
>>in the opponents win total?  Apparently not.  
>
>	Another, subtler point is this: do two opponents' games against *each
>other* count?  F'rinstance, Duke plays both Wake Forest and Virginia.  Virginia
>and Wake Forest play each other.  Does the win and loss from that game count?
>

   Currently these do count.  From my understanding of how the NCAA's system
works, these would be counted.  Most likely the effects of these will
eventually cancel each other out for the most part since there isn't a 
large deviation in # of conference games, and in those cases where there
is, quite frequently the teams in question play a common group of 
opponents.

>	Also, if you play a team twice, are their games counted twice?  If that
>team plays another team twice, are those games counted four times in F3?  There
>are a lot of possibilities here.
>

   Currently the games are counted twice, however each time they are counted
all games between the two are subtracted. (i.e. if two teams played twice
the records would be added twice, but a total of 4 results would be subtracted).



    I don't have an official definition of how the NCAA calculates these
numbers.  If anyone has an official statement I'd much appreciate it.


p.s.  The latest run I did this morning included the following teams in
     the top 25: UNC, Kentucky, California, Cincinnati, Purdue, Kansas,
     Seton Hall, Indiana, Virginia, Michigan, UCLA, LSU, Xavier, Duke,
     New Mexico, Houston, Syracuse, FSU, Georgetown, and Arkansas among
     others, with the few teams I seriously question having very small
     samples.  So far I'm quite happy with the resulting corelations.
--
================ "Mr. Clinton, tell me more about how sheep's =================
================= bladders may be used to cure the economy." ==================
Greg Paul  (Mouser)		  |  paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu  GO SPARTANS!!
MSCS student, Insight technician  |     Triangle Fraternity
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 14:01:41 CST
From: Chuck Amsler <U52809@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Duke tops AP and USA Today/CNN polls... Michigan tumbles
 <7749@news.duke.edu> <1992Dec11.100020.4515@wkuvx1.bitnet>

In article <1992Dec11.100020.4515@wkuvx1.bitnet>, hurtje@wkuvx1.bitnet says:
>
>>  The Car-lotte Observer had an article last year when Duke was still
>> undefeated, theorizing a matchup between Duke and the Charlotte Hornets in
>> Cameron.  Charlotte wins by 35 or so, according to them.
>
>   Charlotte?  .... by 35?   HA!!!   If you will think back with me to
>         [lots of stuff deleted, upper quote from Rob]

But... on returning to Cameron the G-man would have returned to his
collegiate, dominating self (even in that lighter blue uniform).  He'd
easily lead the way to Charlotte's victory.  :-) 8^]

  -- Chuck Amsler  (Duke '80, just like big Mike)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman)
Subject: Rodney and the Rams
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:40:33 GMT

Going over to W-S tonite to catch the Deacs and the Rhode Island
Rams game (father-in-law is URI grad). Anybody have info on the 
Rams and what dey got? Should be an interesting game if for no
other reason than it's Charlie Harrison's first game as a Deac.
I know the deac fans are eagerly awaiting his arrival. For 
their sake I hope he can do more in the long run than the last
G'town tranfer did for them! 
Hopefully that damn deacon fight song won't make me gag!!
I'll report on the goings on tomorrow. 
In the meantime go HEELS.

L.P.


-
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Montross vs Shaq
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:03:16 GMT
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1992Dec11.161941.15740@samba.oit.unc.edu> Curt.Hill@launchpad.unc.edu (Curt Hill) writes:
>
>The point here is painfully obvious.  The only hope to slow down Shaq
>in the pros is to get a big, tall body on him down low.  He eats up teams
>without this type of player.  He sometimes eats up teams with these players.
>
>Even the elite centers have trouble with Shaq physically.  Eric, at 7' and
>275, should be able to score a few points, keep Shaq off the boards, and
>maybe even slow him down some.
>
>
>For the same reasons, folks like Luther Wright, Matt Wenstrom, and other
>250lb+ 7' guys will have careers with East Coast NBA teams.

Well, you have hit it right on the head with this actually.  Shaq not
only needs a big body, but one who doesn't mind physical play, to slow
him down some.  Joe Kleine didn't do so bad while he was in when the Cs
faced him.  Kleine and Montross are similar in many ways.  And, as good
a defender as David Robinson may be, I think he may have problems with
the Shaq's pure physical size.  That is, unless Robinson's quickness makes
up for it...
-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: Mike.Dunnagan@launchpad.unc.edu (Mike Dunnagan)
Subject: Re: Kentucky MASH'ed Louisville
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:41:23 GMT

Jeffrey Burch:

> >Dick Vitale said after the UL-KY game that U of L WILL win another NCAA
> >championship in the 90's. Knowing what Denny has coming in next year I
> >believe Mr. Vitale.
> 
> Considering Vitale's wonderful track record, I'd be really worried after
> hearing him say this.   :-)

This reminds me of a prediction I read in SI years ago. Some "expert"
there said King Rice would lead UNC to the national title in his junior
year (1990 I think). Never listen to these guys. <g>

Mike
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Richmond Spiders
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:00:02 GMT
Reply-To: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center

>>       If Dick Tarrant had Dean Smith's bench - he'd win the NCAA.  End
>>of story.
>
>All he needs is a piece of furniture?  Wow.

No wonder why Dean Smith hasn't won any lately - he doesn't have any
bench - just some folding chairs.

If Dick Tarrant is as good as you say, he won't be at Richmond much
longer....  Some big bad school is going to swipe him from good ol'
Richmond.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: George.Harris@launchpad.unc.edu (George Harris)
Subject: Re: RPI Ranking System Scores 12/8/92
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:44:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.194146.12265@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day) writes:
>In article <matthew.724008207@base.cs.ucla.edu> matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu  
>(Matthew Merzbacher) writes:
>> paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul) writes:
>> 
>> >   Here's a preliminary look at how the RPI scores are shaping up.
>> 
>> >Rnk. Name                          RPI     W  L  OW OL    F1     F2     F3
>> >247. Air Force                     0.2000  0  2   0  3   0.0000 0.0000  
>0.5000
>> 
>> >252. Northern Arizona              0.1800  1  1   0  2   0.5000 0.0000  
>0.2000
>
>One of the things that I didn't understand about this was the OW - 
>does the opponents win over Air Force or Northern Arizona count
>in the opponents win total?  Apparently not.  

	Another, subtler point is this: do two opponents' games against *each
other* count?  F'rinstance, Duke plays both Wake Forest and Virginia.  Virginia
and Wake Forest play each other.  Does the win and loss from that game count?

	Also, if you play a team twice, are their games counted twice?  If that
team plays another team twice, are those games counted four times in F3?  There
are a lot of possibilities here.

>Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
--
"If you take crnaberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does."		-Groucho Marx

George.Harris@launchpad.unc.edu		or, preferably	gharris@jade.tufts.edu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: hbolande@java.journalism.indiana.edu
Subject: UNC's Derrick Phelps
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:43:11 GMT

Just wondering whether any other Tarheel fans out there are as worried as  
I am about the Carolina point guard pattern that Derrick Phelps seems to  
be slipping into . . . Can you say King Rice II in 3-D?

I like D-Smooth's defense and ball-handling ability, but it seems like the  
last time UNC had a PG that could be counted on to score was in the days  
of Kenny Smith (Lebo was better as a shooting guard).

The annoying syndrome's symptoms are all there: occasional flashes of  
offensive competence just to make you wonder why the shooting confidence  
ain't there all the time. Donald Williams seems to be moving into Hubert  
Davis' shoes quickly, but I have my doubts about Carolina's ability to go  
all the way with everybody being so specialized.

--Just some food for thought. Responses and follow-ups from sarcastic  
Dookies are NOT welcome.

H. A. Bolande (UNC Class of 1990)
Indiana University
From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: georgetown beats everyone
Keywords: othella harrington
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:02:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <holmess.4.0@columbia.dsu.edu> holmess@columbia.dsu.edu (STEVE W HOLMES) writes:
>GEORGETOWN BEATS EVERYONE IN THE BIG EAST I GUESS THEY FARE WELL.
>  OTHELLA HARRINGTON WILL BE THE NEXT PAT EWING AND ALONZO MOURNING ALL IN 
>ONE.  HOW WILL SYRACUSE DEAL WITH THAT.  OH BY THE WAY SYRACUSE WONT BE 
>INVITED TO THE NATIONAL TOURNEY.  THE HAVE TO CHEAT TO GET THE GOOD PLAYERS.

You forgot to say WOOF!

Ted

-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Best Conference
Date: 18 Dec 1992 15:26:49 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

>Wrong year which serves Purdon't deleted...
>
>You are thinking 1988-1989.  Michigan won, Illinois was in the final four.
>Indiana won the Big 10 and was the second seed.  Iowa was still very tough
>with BJ, Gamble, et all, and OSU still had Burson - this was the year he
>was injured and that really hurt OSU.  The Big 10 was a real monster that
>year... 7 teams into the tourney.
>
   Not only did 7 of the 10 teams make the NCAA, but even the crummy ones
   had a decent season. Wisconsin finished something like 16-12 behind the
   3-point shooting of Trent Jackson and the inside play of Danny Jones.
   That was probably UW's best team in a long time. Illinois and Michigan,
   undoubtedly the two best teams in the nation that year IMO, both fell to
   the Badgers. UW beat Illinois by 20 points!

   That was quite a season in the Big 10.

   --salty


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: Bobby Hurley
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<1992Dec15.190531.11568@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<1992Dec16.213926.26584@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
	<1992Dec16.225515.5734@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:07:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.225515.5734@fcom.cc.utah.edu> jfc3348@u.cc.utah.edu (John F. Conroy) wrote:
> What they do
> prove, however, is that Bobby Hurley is one of those athletes who will do
> whatever it takes for success. His skills on the basketball court are all
> learned- his court vision comes from endless hours of playing time. He is
> a little slow of foot, but he appears so much quicker because of the way
> he moves his feet. His hard waork has allowed him success against NBA
> caliber players- Kenny Anderson, Corch, and Crotty, and there is no reason
> to think that he won't continue to improve in the NBA.

Oh, poppycock.  I hate to have to keep punching holes in people's TV- and
society-fed stereotypes all of the time, but Hurley is blindingly quick.
In the Olympic trials, he rated as the fastest man on either team.  He's
much more of an athlete than Kenny Anderson is.

The primary reason for the success of Bobby Hurley--or John Stockton, or
any of these "geniuses" who names keep coming up--is that they have more
talent than 90% of the people they play against, pure and simple.

____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college