HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trimpe_b@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: RE: Pet Peeves (Was: loose dogs)
Date: 2 OCT 92 15:06:20 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

In a previous article, steve@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca wrote:
>>>   :-)
>> You'll hjave to admit, an Akita isn't as common as some dogs.  My GOLDEN
>> RETRIEVER gets that very often when we are at the vet.  He's a nice golden,
>> very close to his conformation championship, but because he has such a big

>> I know how you feel!  I usually nicely say, "He's a purebred SHOW golden
>> retriever."  Don't want them to think he's just a bad specimen of the breed!

>I, too, have a golden.  You'd be surprised at the number of people that ask if
>she's a lab

	YEA-I have a yellow lab that's abit dark-closer to the color of a 
golden. All sorts of 'doggie-informed' people ask what is that-a mix? Even
people who have a Lab or a Golden don't know what he is.  We are so 
conditioned to see milky white yellow labs that a dark yellow-red one
totally throws people off- SHEESH :-)
Bev
From: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us (S. Mudgett aka little gator)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Distribution: na
Organization: gators 'r us
Subject: Re: Raising dogs vs. children
	<1992Sep28.232632.12010@csc.canberra.edu.au>
	<1992Sep29.164916.1@stsci.edu> <BvD3I3.G1M@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Sep29.235741.24609@odin.corp.sgi.com>
Reply-To: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 08:41:18 -0500

In <1992Sep29.235741.24609@odin.corp.sgi.com>, Bill Glazier writes:

>Reasons why dogs are neat but kids are much better
>
>10)  Dogs don't smile at you and make your heart melt
mine do.

>9)   Dogs don't look like their owners (at least mine don't)
no, they usually look cuter.

>8)   Dogs play a lousy game of baseball (they're great fielders but lousy at the
>     plate)
i hate baseball.

>7)   Dogs can't speak English or discuss politics
this can be an advantage.

>6)   Dogs can't have grandchildren
of course they can.

>5)   Dogs can't attend your alma mater
it never occured to me to want them to.

>4)   You can't go out for a beer with a dog
i hate beer, too.

>3)   You have no genetic similarity to your dog
and a good thing for both of us.

>2)   Dogs can't take care of you in your old age
but then, you can't count on a kid to, either.

>1)   Dogs don't like being dressed up in cute outfits
neither do a lot of kids, including me when i was one.
-- 
-- little gator aka s. mudgett     email: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:59:15 GMT

r hardin tells us about:
> HSUS popping up in literally hundreds of clippings from all over the
> country intoning solemnly about the viciousness of pit bulls.

Ah yes, hundreds.  Of course, not a single example is produced.

Given hardin's penchant for anything but the facts, we'd be fools to
accept that there are hundreds on his say-so.  Or even one.

But I don't doubt there is one.  Could be.

What hardin doesn't tell us is that humane societies adopt out pit
bulls, as well as dogs of all species, all the time, all over the
nation, and internationally.  And that they tell the new owners that
training and handling make the difference.

Puts a different light on it, doesn't it?

Of course, none of the above, whether we accept it or not, supports
the claim:

> I believe the pit bull crisis was their [humane societies'] work

But then we don't expect the facts from hardin, so we're not
disappointed.

But sometimes hardin almost gets a fact right.  Comes close, anyway.
For example, humane societies have indeed proposed laws abouty vicious
dogs.  So close to a correct statement of fact!  Too bad the next
statement blows it:

> they proposed laws anyway, instead of training...
> Education is not among the ideas proposed by the HSUS
> as a response

It's easy enough for anyone to demonstrate that the facts are
otherwise.  You do have first to be interested in the facts.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: sharon@kunikpok.UUCP (rich)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Need Info - Husky Seizures
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 14:05:14 CDT
Organization: Kunikpok Kennels and Komputers (Pet Project)

As many times as this particular subject has been discussed on
this newsgroup, I find that my knowledge of what's been said
before is lacking. I've never encountered this particular problem,
and I'm hoping that someone can help:

My 2-year old Siberian Husky has suffered what appears to be
an epileptic seizure. It's possible that a collapse previously
attributed to heat exhaustion may also have been a seizure, for
a total of two in the last 6 months.

Facts:

Epilepsy has not been diagnosed in any progeny of this
line, at least for 4 generations.
He's in otherwise perfect health--complete blood workup
shows everything normal.
Unless somebody threw something over the fence, and
he ingested it, he was not exposed to any poison, including
flea/tick extermination, household chemicals, and poisonous
toads (which abound in this area.)
All seizure symptoms were "classic" epilepsy symptoms.

It has been suggested that a dietary deficiency (namely
lack of sugar!) might be responsible. I'm skeptical...

My strategy right now is to wait and see: it's been six
weeks since the seizure now. 

Does anyone have any experience with seizures that have
been "proven" NOT to have been caused by epilepsy? If
so, can you offer any advice? I'm terribly heartsick
about this--happy (relatively) to know that it doesn't
appear that if it is epilepsy that seizures will be
frequent or debilitating--but extremely disappointed
that if it is epilepsy he'll have to be altered. He's
currently ranked 38th by the AKC in conformation for
his breed, and I have (had) very high hopes for him.

Thank you to all who respond--

Sharon Hasting
Kunikpok Siberians
Austin, Texas
(512) 251-7854
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: fritzz@bud.megatek.uucp (Friedrich Knauss)
Subject: Re: Dog is totally stiff
Reply-To: megatek!fritzz@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:05:34 GMT

In article <BvB2pE.8rn@acsu.buffalo.edu> berlind@acsu.buffalo.edu (heike berlind) writes:
>I was wondering what a dog's regular temperature is?  I think I heard it is
>between 100.5 - 101 F.  Is that right?  I took his temperature yesterday  
>and it was 103.7 F.

Dogs have a much greater variance in their body temps than humans
do (and according to recent research, human body temps a pretty
variable). There seems to be some consistancy along breed lines,
but even that isn't a guarantee. 100-104 F seems to be a good
ball park area. The best thing to do is check your dogs medical
records and compare against temperatures from past physicals.

Remember to take the records to your new vet.
-- 
-- Bones heal - Chicks dig scars - Pain is temporary - Glory is forever
-- fritzz@megatek.com :wq ZZ QQUIT exitqqq^C^Y^C^C^C^C^C^C^C
--
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:16:31 GMT

r hardin writes:
>> It's silly to pretend that, of the millions of unwanted dogs
>> every year, all were from "disreputable" breeders.
> Yes, that extends the reach of the humane societies to every
> reach of the dog world, doesn't it.

No, it doesn't.

The majority don't go to humane societies.
They go to your city shelter.

If you got your facts straight, perhaps the quality
of your theories might improve.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Stopping biting
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Nitelog BBS - Monterey, CA - 408-655-1096
Reply-To: michael.hagerty@nitelog.com (Michael Hagerty) 

In article <arichard.1@sph.unc.edu>, arichard@sph.unc.edu (ALISON RICHARD) write
> We found holding the puppy's snout closed and saying 'NO' firmly every time
> she tried to bite soon stopped her.  Look into the dogs eyes and let them
> know who's the alpha while you do this.  Biting is a no-no in every
> situation and we do this even when she inadvertently bites during play - she
> had to learn to be responsible about this.

Interesting...  What we found to work with puppies is the following:
Whenever the puppy attempts to nibble on my arm, I push much more of my
hand in its mouth than it wants (not painfully, but just enough that it
gags).  After several days of this the puppy loses interest in biting
people.

Several years ago, we rescued an older basset (6 years old) and it got
into a fight with one of the other bassets (which had been trained as
described above).  I jumped into the fray and pushed the dogs apart.
In the heat of the fight the trained basset jumped at my arm, mouth wide
open.  As she flew through the air I could see in her eyes this sudden
recognition that this was not something to do.  Her mouth snapped shut
and she hit my forearm with her nose hard enough to leave a bruise!  Big
praise for this!!!  Shows how training succeeds...

Regards, Mikey
---
 . JABBER v1.3.1 #.042 . Basset Hounds make better friends than most people.
From: mfriley@pacman.WPI.EDU (Margaret F Riley)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Obedience Classes was Motivational Methods
Date: 1 Oct 1992 13:27:25 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu

In article <1992Oct1.062317.26954@csc.canberra.edu.au> Stacey Curtis <sec@softserver.canberra.edu.au> writes:
>In article <15866@mindlink.bc.ca> Valaria Vorlop,
>Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca writes:
>>When anybody asks me about classes I always say, don't waste your money,
>I'LL
>>help you with your dog.
>
>Good on you.  I always like to see doggie people helping new doggie
>people.

This is always a great way to start a new owner out and to remind yourself
of how to train a dog.

>
>   But
>I still recommend people train within a class as this gives the dog and
>their people the chance to socialise under very controlled circumstances.
> It allows the owner to test the temperment of their dog around other
>dogs whilst in the presence of experienced dog handlers that can watch
>for things going wrong.

Ditto.  You get socialization with other dogs and an opportunity to see
how you are doing compared to others when you go to a class.   

A few notes to pass on as to how to judge an obedience class.  First, go
to one as an observer without your dog.  See how large the group is, how
pleasant the instructor is and how much s/he respects the owners and the
dogs, and then decide if this is the trainer for you!   Remember, there's 
what everyone tells you is right and there is what's right for you!   The
class we took the Siegmonster to was only 15 people with dogs and was only
5 sessions!   There were handouts at the end of each session and a Q&A
period at the beginning of each session.  The trainer also kept her two 
classes about 30 minutes apart each night (level 1 and level 2) so she
could have time for questions after each class.   Obviously a concerned
trainer!    She used her own dogs for demos, had an assistant with her
own dogs for more supervision of the class, provided the training collars,
and treated each person with respect.   I recommend her to everyone I know.

Margaret
mfriley@wpi.wpi.edu



Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: pdsmith.mitre.org (Pat Smith)
Subject: Re: Stupid Dog-conclusion
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:49:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.154414.6275@cs.tulane.edu>, feldman@cs.tulane.edu (Damon Feldman) writes:
> 
> 
> >You would not believe how many people told me that my dog was bad and
> >needed obedience school (even though she already had it) or that she
> >thought she was Alpha (I think my husband makes it quite clear to her
> >who Alpha is!).  
> 
> >I'm glad to know she is not the only husky with an attitude!!
> 
> Recently a freind was listening to a dog-behavior call in show.  The
> host claimed that all dogs were trainable etc.  
> 
> A caller called in (as callers do :-) and said, "I have a dog which even
> YOU can't train!"
> 
> To which the host replied, "Really?  What kind of Northern or Oriental
> breed is it?"
> 
> Huskies are hard to train.  This does not mean they are untrainable, but
> they are not for everyone.  You should either be a capable trainer or be
> willing to let the dog go untrained.
> 
> Damon-- 
> Damon Feldman                  feldman@rex.cs.tulane.edu
> 
> 
Huskies are easy to train but it takes perserverence and is a fulltime job.
Huskies are very smart and quick learners.  They know exactly what you want 
them to do, but they just might not want to do it at that moment.  Don't
let them get away with any nonense else you will lose.  They require
consistency and you must dominate them.  I have one that walks with no lease 
and minds everything I say as long as I am firm.  Once I get loose with my
commands, he takes advantage of the situation and becomes unruly.  He is
almost 6 years old and every day we practice obiendance. He often gets
punished (put out) for misbehaving or not obeying.  We do not put up with
any break in his behavior else we would lose control over a very strong
and powerful animal.  We taught him to live with, not snack on, two cats
and they even eat together.  The dog has been trained to allow the cats
in his bowl (they like to play with his food).  This feat as amazed a dog
trainer friend of mine.  Good luck with the husky - they are the best.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: abb@unislc.uucp (Anne Beck)
Subject: Imodium Butterflies
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:34:00 GMT

From article <1992Sep29.194928.11533@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, by vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff):
> 
> Boy, you guys sure have a different world view from mine.  That stuff
> feels like the most public kind of humiliation to me.  Which is half
> the reason my dog never got a CD.  I LOATHE going into the ring.  (The
> other half is I'm too cheap to keep forking over those $15s.....)
> 
> What could be more fun -- spend $15 (or a lot more) to be publicly
> humiliated for 5 minutes.
> 
> I hope this doesn't sound like a criticism of people who like to show;
> I don't mean it that way at all.  Some of my best friends show....  ;-)
> 
> Just presenting an alternate view of the whole subject.
> 
Of course, those of us who like to show could be certifiably crazy!
Part of the "thrill" is the stomach flutters, the anxiety, the
two weeks of nightmares and insomnia, the last minute panic.
It's stage fright, and it's FUN.  Explaining this to some people,
however, makes us all sound very weird!  I have a friend who said he's
never been afraid of anything in his whole life, except his father
and his belt, but he was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of going into the
obedience ring.  (He's shown in breed.)  Well, this weekend
Stan will join the rest of us in this lovely torture.

I'm so glad my dogs don't seem to get uptight about it!  They
just go in and have a great time.  But then, they get the satisfaction
of making me look like a fool.  What fun!

-- 
   Anne Beck			| The difference between difficult
   abb@unislc  sun!unislc!abb   | dogs & vicious human beings is
   Unisys  SLC UT               | that difficult dogs don't rise to 
			        | prominent positions in the community.
From: cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Motivational Methods
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:36:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: pmafire.1992Sep30.203623.29751
Organization: WINCO

In article <23759@alice.att.com> rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin) writes:
>
>
>(responding to two articles)
>>Are you considering the possibility that it is the *student* who is
>>to blame here rather than the instructor?  I've seen people that
>>you can tell to make a correction until you are blue in the face
>>but who simply refuse to do something so mean to little Fifi...
>
>|I must add here that many people come to classes for an hour a week,
>|obviously *never* work with the dog between classes, and wonder why
>|Fifi isn't progressing.
>
>|Charlie's point is well taken that often as not, much, if not all, of
>|the blame lies with the student.
>
>If we're talking about classes, then the fault is with the instructor.
>The instructor teaches the students, not the dogs.
>

Uh huh.  And if the student doesn't do the homework, whose fault is the
failure?
>
>You have to explain training to people who are ALREADY MOTIVATED,
>the came to the class because they WANTED TO, they paid for it
>with REAL MONEY.

I've seen people do this and still not practice.

For that matter, how about students who go to college and fail because
they'd rather party than do homework?  Costs a lot more for college than
for dog training classes.
>
>The instructor has to know about training, of course, and that's
>the first problem.  Do you know that instructors are sometimes
>a student from the previous class?
>
>It helps a lot if your method works, too.  If you're misguided, as I feel
>obedience instructors are, then the student justifiably concludes after

Are you saying all obedience instructors are misguided?

>a short time that his dog is untrainable, because it isn't working
>on his dog and be believes the instructor.
>
>The people who are quickest to blame the student are an interesting
>group, perhaps we can find a common thread.
>
>It ought to ring alarm bells when we hear any phrase like
>bad student or irresponsible owner.  Self righteousness
>is the biggest cause of cruelty ever invented.  It's pretty
>big in humane organizations.

Nobody claimed all students are bad students.  This explanation for *some*
failures was brought up in as another explanation in addition to some of
the things you mention.  There are good and bad instructors, and there are
good and bad students.  It isn't fair to assign all blame to one or the
other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Dale Cook    "There is no animal so spooky as the True Believer."
                   ---Edward Abbey
The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:24:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23813
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



Jon Hrueger writes:
>What happened to unwanted dogs before there were shelters?

Well, there were fewer of them, because the owners kept them longer.

Those that were strays, drop-offs, wandered around until somebody
took them in, or until they got run over.  Have you noticed that
you almost never see a run-over dog nowadays?  Lots of raccoons,
no dogs.

Strays are pretty uncommon nowadays.  I've taken a few in and
trained them, to find them homes.  It's very easy, you should try it.

Something not supported by the humane society.
From: time@coos.dartmouth.edu (Susan M. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: terrier info please
Keywords: puppy
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:55:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Are there any terrier owners out there?  I'm trying to get information
on terriers in general and, more specifically, the West Highland
White.

My 17-year old dog recently died, and I've just started investigating
breeds, because I want to get another dog.  I read "The Right Dog for You"
by (?) and one of the breeds that was "right" for me was the West Highland.
What an amazing coincidence that that's always been one of my favorite
breeds :-)

I do have one *big* question.  "The Right Dog" rated it as active.  What
exactly does that mean - a constant blur of white never slowing down or
just a dog I won't have to wake up when it's time to go out?  Any other
breeds anyone would care to recommend?  My short list also includes the
Cairn Terrier, Mini Schnauzer, either of the Corgis or the Sheltie (I know,
I know, it's not a terrier)

I'd like a dog between 10 & 35 pounds (ie not one of the toy breeds) that
likes walks and helping outdoors (I like to garden), but that doesn't need
a 2 mile jog every day.  I don't have kids, but my 11 year old niece and
the neighborhood kids do come over, so the dog should at least tolerate
children.  I also would like to stay away from the more dominant breeds.

Thanks in advance.  Replies to the net are fine, since I read this group
almost every day.  E-mail to me is fine, too, but replies should be
sent to bacc@mac.dartmouth.edu instead of the address at the beginning of
this post.

Bonnie Coutermarsh
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine)
Subject: Re: A problem with butterflies...
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:35:14 GMT

In article <380@mindlink.bc.ca> Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop) writes:
>Sorry about the misleading title, the butterflies are in my stomach: I've
>finally taken the plunge and entered my dobie, Dante in what will be our very
>very first obedience show! It's happening November 22...I'm not 100% sure if I
>will get in 'cos it's limited to 7 hours judging time, but I will be starting
>to polish his stuff today and over the next two months. I've only been in the
>ring once before at a conformation match, but there weren't many people (or
>dogs!) there and of course all I was asking him to do was look pretty and he
>does that naturally with no help from me :)
>
>If anybody has any advice for an absolute beginner, I'm all ears :)

     Valaria - try taking Pepto Bismol the morning before you show. Seriously!
I decided to enter a dog in obedience at the golden retriever national specialty
one year and I never had the time to take him to any matches prior to the trial
at the National. Anyway, my stomach was a mess that morning. But once the
Pepto Bismol started to work, I felt confident that at least my tummy was under
control. (PS We did qualify that day)

********************************************************************************
Sandra Augustine  |Home of: Conformation, obedience, and field titled Golden
NORWOOD KENNELS   |Retrievers who also do therapy dog work, a disobedient but
ems: sla54@cas.org|beautiful Siberian husky and a very cute Norfolk terrier puppy
********************************************************************************
	       The above opinions are not those of my employer.
********************************************************************************
From: Vincent@garnet (Vincent Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Wanted: Sharpei or Gold Lab and Bull
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:37:59 GMT
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs
Organization: WSSG
NNTP-Posting-Host: tmf2mac20.berkeley.edu

I would like to adopt two dogs. Either a pug or bull dog preferably babies
and a golden lab or sharpei If anybody has with one of these dogs to give
away or to sell for a reasonable price please call me at 510-841-4942. We
are UC Berkeley students and a dog would really be a good companion right
now since we don't hasve girlfriends. Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: mryan@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Raising dogs vs. children
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:49:16 GMT


> gets older that the rules change for the child, not the dog.  IMHO having
> a dog is basically like having a toddler, same basic mental age.   
> 

I agree completely.  I got a puppy when my kids were 3 and 7.  It was just
like having a 1-year-old toddler in the house.  Now the dog is almost 3
and it's like having a 5-year-old kid.  Maybe that's why the dog and my
6-year-old are so close.

I found that having kids was good practice for having a puppy - they are
messy, sometimes destructive, and can't be left loose in the house
unsupervised.

Mary Ryan			mryan@stsci.edu
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs