HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevinc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (kevin.j.coulter)
Subject: Re: IMSA,  Hate to burst the bubble ...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:49:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.125444.9812@westford.ccur.com> fsp@westford.ccur.com (Fritz Pattison) writes:
>
>	Not only are the IMSA boys beating, in some cases crushing
>	last years CART records, but are beating this years records
>	also, ie Portland.  At Laguna the top 3 cars topped the record,
>	we will have to see in Oct. what the CART boys can do about
>	that.  It would interesting to see after Mid-Ohio and
>	R.A. which series has the most records.  The speed and 
>	technology of the GTPs are seriously underrated.
>	Its amazing lots of records with less than half the ego.;^)

Road America will be especially interesting, as IndyCars will there 2
weeks after IMSA, so the weather will hopefully be comparable. Current
records are:
IMSA 1:49 and change set by Davy Jones last year.
CART 1:47 and change set by Bobby Rahal last year.

Please note IMSA was run on a hot day in August ~90 degrees.
CART was run on a cool day in late sept ~50 degrees.

Should be interesting. Unfortunately, I think that will be the only
interesting thing about the GTPs. The race will be a snoozer.

Fritz (or anyone else), any ideas why IMSA insists on separating the
GTP/Lights from the GTS/GTO/GTU? Especially on real road courses... 
and hey, road america is the BIGGEST track they run on. 

			Kevin

-------
 Kevin Coulter			"If it don't have wheels, it ain't a sport!!!"
 AT&T Network Systems
 Naperville, IL
 {att,lll-crg,attunix}!ihlpy!kevinc  OR  kevinc@ihlpy.att.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:40:03 EDT
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Ghost of Can/Am?

In article <12361@perryd>, perryd@Software.Mitel.COM (Dave Perry) says:

>I thought Can/Am was dead - haven't heard anything about it for at least
>5 years.  I thought I heard it  mentioned on tv (TNN? TSN?) while
>I was channel flipping the other day. So - is it dead or what?
Carroll Shelby has tried to bring the series back. Car and Driver
did an article on him and mentioned the series. The cars are all the
same. They look like Sports 2000 cars. I think the season is short
and it includes ovals.

Jonathan Swaby

>Dave

>--
>Dave Perry                     | Opinions expressed here are mine
>ve3ifb@ve3jf.#eon.on.can.noam  | and are not necessarily those of
>perryd@software.mitel.com      | Mitel Corporation.
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: Rule Changes for 1993 and 1994
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:01:55 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

FISA issued the following Press Release on Monday evening

 There was a meeting of the FISA Formula One Commission on July 25.
 It decided to make the following proposals to the FISA World
 Motorsports Council.
 
 1.  That from January 1 1994, the fuel for Formula 1 should be
     pump fuel on sale to the general public.
 
 2.  That between now and 1994, the present fuel regulations
     should be fully and vigorously enforced.
 
 3.  That from January 1 1993, as a condition of providing tyres
     to teams in the FIA Formula 1 Championship, tyre companies
     should be obliged to supply, if called upon to do so, a
     proportion of the competing teams on the usual commercial
     terms as follows:
       One Company             - 100%
       Two Companies           - up to 60% each
       Three companies or more - up to 40% each
 
 4.  That the rule relating to testing be modified to allow testing 
     on a team's national circuit (eg Magny Cours for French, Monza
     for Italian and Silverstone for British teams) and that it be 
     made clear that once a Formula 1 race has been held, testing
     is allowed at the circuit until the start of the following season.

Comment:

I think its a bit rough on Goodyear to *make* them retool their
production facilities without consultation, and then to force
them to supply the whole field.  Bernie Ecclestone said on
race day at Hockenheim "Expect an announcement from a big tyre
manufacturer before Monza ..."  This may mean Bridgestone.

Avon also may join the fray.  Their manager Eddie Wood said,
"The proposals to make F1 tyres smaller brings them into line
with the range that we are capable of making.  Our policy hasn't
changed; we will look at any type of motor racing that is
financially viable."

I'm glad about the changes in testing venues.  I'd hate the
British GP to be moved to early March so that all the UK teams
could test at Silverstone during the summer!

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles				bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Magazines/papers for IndyCar
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:34:49 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Distribution: na
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA


  Currently I receive "Winston Cup Scene" for good NASCAR information. Its
 a newspaper and comes every week. It covers all the race results along with
 news and rumors. Very good since the news is only 3-4 days old vs 3-4 months
 with a magazine.

  Does any such item exist for the IndyCar/CART fan?

 -Dan

 PS: Michael is too fat to drive F1, but I sure would like to see the F1
     guys trim some fat off his ego.
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital                 Network Adminstration,
  Dan Schein - Information Systems    __|__       Programming, Parenting,
  RD 1 Box 250                   ______(*)______  Rappelling, and soon...
  Reading, PA 19607                   o/ \o       Sky Diving!
                    Rusty's due in 92       Go #2
   ...{uunet,allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!dans  -OR- dans@rehab1.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
Subject: Re: Wreck on ESPN Saturday Night
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:14:40 GMT

deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:

...concerning Mac McCellan(sp?)'s midget crash on SNT...

>I usually watch SNT, but I missed it this week. Without getting too graphic, 
>what was different about this crash from every other midget roll-over. Did
>this guy fall out of the car or something? Did the seat belts or roll cage
>fail? Try to keep this non-graphic, just give me an idea what happened.

Well, I saw it happen, and it was violent.  Two cars touched while taking
the green flag on the third qualifying race.  Mac's car turned right and
launched itself into the wall and catch-fence just past the starter's stand.
It hit the wall very hard there (taking out a nice chunk of concrete).  Mac
may have been unconscious after this impact.  The car then barrel-rolled
down the front stretch all the way to wall in turn 1.  The rolling car had
a tremendous rotational velocity.  Mac did not fall out of the car and I 
think the roll cage held up pretty good, but the extreme centrifugal force
had his arms flying around outside of the roll cage.  Kind of a rag-doll look.
ESPN said that he suffered severe injuries to his limbs and was semi-
conscious.

The ESPN coverage right after the accident was really strange.  They only
showed a distant shot from near the press box toward turn 1.  I understand
the decision not to replay it.  But they never showed the damaged wall or
fence.  (or even mentioned them)  There were several people standing _VERY_
close to the fence when the car hit the wall/fence.  I got the feeling that
maybe some spectators were injured.  But the ESPN censors were working 
overtime that night.

Anybody there that can tell the whole story?

--
Terry Matula
tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
matula@ee.msstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Subject: Re: ABS on F1 cars?
Keywords: ABS, F1
Reply-To: mcculley@racy.zko.dec.com (Bruce McCulley)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:02:54 GMT


In article <eur.712569010@dutncp8>,
 eur@dutncp2.tn.tudelft.nl (Eur van Andel) writes:
 
|> Does anyone know why F1 cars (or C cars, or F3000) don't have ABS?

Yes.


|> 
|> Is it too dangerous? Will they go even faster?

Yes.  No.

|> But why is this feature implemented on every standard Shatsubazu GLT 3000 RX
|> and not on these superb racing engines?

Because your standard Shatsabox will be driven mostly by drivers who haven't
a clue about how to do it properly let alone particularly well, so the design
center is to make the safest econobox people-mover with the lowest legal
liability exposure for the manufacturer.  Even for the Super-shatsabox TLA
the legal liability concern will override any other engineering consideration
in the post-incendiary_Pinto era.

In other words, the design goals are different.

For one thing, maximum braking effect is compromised by ABS for ease of control
by average skill levels.  Even control by high skill levels is compromised for
ease of control by average skill levels, since there will be times when a truly
skilled driver will want to lock one or more wheels.  ABS denies the driver
any ability to make such a decision....

Not to mention weight compromises, reliability, performance characteristic
tradeoffs.

btw, some race cars have used ABS.  the fact that this has not led to all
race cars using ABS shows clearly that there is no "unfair advantage" gained
as a result of incorporating ABS into the design for a racing car.

--bruce
From: igb@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Braking Distances
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:38:43 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

>>>>> On 29 Jul 92 08:26:45 GMT, rsv@gdwb.oz.au (Roger Virgo) said:
Roger>  Good Idea for closer racing and more passing????

It strikes me that there is a fundamental lack of understanding of the
nature of Formula One racing.  Some racing has as an objective the
testing of driver skill.  Such formulae have very tight limits to
essentially render the cars equivalent.  These are to cars as
single-class sailing is for GP14 or Fireball or whatever.

Formula One is more like 12 meter offshore racing: the designers and
builders are as important as the crew, and the formula is there to
encourage innovation.

So, if someone using the rulebook gets a massive advantage, it's for
others to do as well.

ian
From: nicos@csa.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Patrese at Hockenheim (SPOILERS)
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:16:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: nicos@csa


A question about rules & regulations in F1:

Patrese did not cross the finish line, but suposedly got the 7th place
(I think) accorgding to ESPN. What is the deal here?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                    BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:14:55 EDT
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McLaren Engines
 <Jul.24.13.02.56.1992.24260@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu>

In article <Jul.24.13.02.56.1992.24260@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu>,
boubez@tastesgreat.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) says:

>JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby) writes:

>>>2. Peugeot

>>This would be my choice. McLaren has a chassis that would be good for
>>Peugeot
>Why do you say that? What does it mean?
The McLaren chassis is a winner. I know it is not winning now, but it
was the car to beat. They are working on active suspension. They
have a semi automatic tranmission. For Peugeot this is almost an instant
winner. They will a better chance of instant success. Look what happened
with Ligier and Renault. I thought that they would have finished in the
points more, but they have only scored in 2 out of 8/9 races. The
engine has made little or no difference.


>>>3. Nissan
>>They have a 3.5l v-12 built, but they swear they are not going to use
>>it for F1. My guess is that the engine is too new. It is probably
>>too heavy and lacking in power. If they did enter maybe they would
>>use this as an oppurtunity to sell the infinities. I want to see
>>them enter F1. I hope they do someday.
>>>4. Toyota
>>I have been hearing things about Toyota entering F1 for years. The
>>talk stopped when turbos were outlawed. I have not heard much about
>>a normally aspirated engine from these guys.

>Both companies have been doing quite well with their normally aspirated
>engines (eg in IMSA).
What engines are you speaking of? The GTP cars use turbos. I think
Nissans GTO cars also have turbos. The toyota engine is a 2.1L 4cyl with
dual turbos. Some of the cars that competed at Le Mans had turbos. I
have not heard much about the engines in the cars that did not.


Jonathan Swaby
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: John Watson on German GP
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:54:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.110057.18927@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
(Andrew Henry) responds to the questions about John Barnard raised by
bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli):

|> This is off the top of my head ... 

Same here.


|> Yes. Barnard had designed a F5000 car in the mid seventies (for
|> Penske?). He designed the original carbon fibre McLaren MP4 [...].

I dunno about Barnard designing a F5000 car.  However, I do know that
he was the man who designed the Chaparral 2K Indy car in the _late_
70ies (1978?).  I believe the 2K was the first CART/Indy car with
wide side pods and ground effects a la Lotus 78 and 79.  The car
was sponsored by Pennzoil.  I think the first year (78?) it was
driven by Johnny Rutherford, and the following year by Al Unser Sr.
who won the Indy 500 with it.  Note that I _may_ have mixed up
the two drivers or be off-by-one with respect to the years.  Any
corrections are welcome ...


|> When Barnard left, he did some consultancy work and then joined 
|> TOM'S Toyota at Hingham. They built the TS010 SWC car, and the 
|> 031F F3 car.  Apparently there was also some work on a F1 car.

Apparently.  However, this project seems to have died now that
a Toyota VP claimed that they will not enter F1.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: miller@convex.com (Ken Miller)
Subject: Davey Allison to drive this weekend
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Billsburg, Va., USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:07:49 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

This mornings paper says that Davey is recovering faster than expected,
and will attempt to start and run this weekends race until the first caution
flag. I sure hope for his sake he isn't the cause/involved.

Ken { anyone seen a 'good'wrench lately... besides bringing up the rear }
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:14:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.174414.10884@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com
(Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>|>See how the Williams drivers behaved under pressure ?
>DriverS??  Mansell ran away with the race and Senna never even got close to
>him.  We never got to see how Mansell behaved under pressure because he
>never was under any.

You must have seen another race than me.

I saw Mansell overshooting the Ostkurve-chicane on about the 20th lap
when trying to overtake Senna for 2nd with Patrese in the lead.  This
was shortly after Mansell had pitted about 8s to get new tires ...

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
From: rob@sbil.co.uk (Robert  Greenwood)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:38:29 GMT
Reply-To: rob@sbil.co.uk
Organization: Salomon Brothers, Ltd.



>Does this mean that Honda may turn its attention to Cart or IMSA, or
>are the costs there about the same as F1?

According to the article in the UK Financial Times that I 'quoted' from
the other day.  Honda claim they are considering getting out of F1 due
the current fashion for ecologically friendly cars so they can use the
budget in that area.

They went on to say that their engineers currently working on F1 engine
development would be re-deployed developing more eco-friendly engines,
emission control systems, etc. I kid you not! Bet those engineers will
be happy little engineers "Please can I stop building state-of-the-art
F1 engines and work on an exhaust filter? Thanks!".

The article suggested that Honda were indeed thinking of using some of
the marketing money to support INDY racing in the US, as they thought the
US was in need of "new marketing initiatives" (ie Our cars aren't
selling well enough in the US, what can we do?).  I don't know anything
about Cart/INSA/INDY racing so I don't know what the difference is. Is
there any?  Does this mean a "yes" to the original question at the
beginning?

Rob.
---
-- 
Robert J Greenwood                           Salomon Brothers International Ltd
rob@sbil.co.uk                                 Business Technology Organisation
From: mitch@dc49.dc (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Honda out of F1 (Looks Official)
Date: 24 Jul 92 23:26:33 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@dc49.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 29227@sbil.co.uk, rob@sbil.co.uk (Robert  Greenwood) writes:
>>Does this mean that Honda may turn its attention to Cart or IMSA, or
>>are the costs there about the same as F1?
>According to the article in the UK Financial Times that I 'quoted' from
>the other day.  Honda claim they are considering getting out of F1 due
>the current fashion for ecologically friendly cars so they can use the
>budget in that area.

I think it's official.  According to my source in Japan it is.  He heard
it on the news over there.
>
>The article suggested that Honda were indeed thinking of using some of
>the marketing money to support INDY racing in the US, as they thought the
>US was in need of "new marketing initiatives" (ie Our cars aren't
>selling well enough in the US, what can we do?).  I don't know anything
>about Cart/INSA/INDY racing so I don't know what the difference is. Is
>there any?  Does this mean a "yes" to the original question at the
>beginning?

You mean Acuras, right?  Of course, what's wrong with a maker who doesn't
have rear wheel drive technology, except for their top model that only seats
two, doesn't have any small V-6 technology, except for their high-end cars,
haven't upgraded their most popular module (Accord in US) since '84?  To top
it off, Hondas have the reputation of being a "Secretary's Car" (from Autoweek,
not me), boring, not innovative, and just not macho enough.

I don't blame them.

---
Mitch Sako	LSI Logic Corp.		Phone	408-433-4187
internet:	msako@lsil.com		FAX	408-433-8796
uucp:		lsil!msako
RIME:		->REDBARON, conference=POLITICS
Disclaimer:	The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cnl@bnr.ca (Christopher Larmour)
Subject: Re: GP racing in the '30s was Re: Car identification request
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:08:30 GMT

On similar but slightly varied vein...

Whilst waiting for the afternoon session of a practise day at Brands Hatch
recently, I was hanging out with Derek Watts and his helper-for-the-day.
We were watching an old bike circulating on the track being photographed.
A couple of comments were made about "some old bloke boating around on
a bike".

Derek headed off to sign in. When he came back...

"You know that old bloke you said was boating around on a bike? He's
 John Surtees."

Ha. 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Misc. Weekend Ramblings
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:25:35 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Jul24.162853.27685@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com> wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.215414.6996@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>>
>>But let's have it your way for a moment.  In that case, we have Michael
>>overtaking a slower car (Rahal) on the racing surface, and going out of bounds
>>(over the yellow line) to complete the pass.  That in itself is a rules
>>infraction.
>>
>
>You blew it again.  Michael did not violate that rule either.  He put two
>wheels over, which was legal.  Four over would have earned a stop-and-go.
>
>Dave Wilson

If you'd just calm down a second before leaping in with another inflammatory
insulting posting, you might remember that this rule was changed one or two
seasons ago.  I'm not sure whether the rule-change was experimental for just
a few races, or whether the change was permanent; are you absolutely sure
that your recollection of the way the rules currently stand is correct?

If somebody has a copy of the current IndyCar rulebook, and could post the
definitive answer on this topic, it would be very helpful.  Currently we
have Dave Wilson & the CBC commentators on one side, and Carl Hogan on the
other.  Hogan is, admittedly, biased, but he is also the person most likely
to have accurate information as to what comprises an infraction of the rules.

-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
The world can be divided into two classes :-
 those who divide people into two classes, and those who don't.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: NASCAR news (7/21)
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:53:32 GMT

tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula) writes:

>Heard some interesting news on NASCAR Live from MRN today...
[...]
>- Robert Yates also said that for Watkins Glen, probably a road-course
>  'specialist' would be found instead of Bobby.  No names here.

Hmmm, some idle speculation:

Robby Gordon: Drives IMSA for Jack Roush, who Yates is of course closely
associated with.  Looked good with the GOBs at Daytona a couple of
years ago.

Joe Nemechek: BGN driver, who has some associations with the Allisons
(Donnie Allison worked as his crew chief for a while last year). 
Started his career as a road racer, and regarded as one of the
best right-turners in NASCAR.  Deserves a shot at WC.

Dorsey Schroeder: Currently without a regular ride; looking for a chance
to impress a team owner.  Also revenge factor from Melling fiasco.

Lyn St. James: Well-known Ford spokesperson.  After Indy, it would
make for a hell of a year, wouldn't it?
-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-6457
(cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport