Subject: Re: SF fans show libertarian inclination 
Distribution: world
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:26:43 +0000

In article <1hsgmlINN49u@transfer.stratus.com>

>robert j kolker writes
>>Is it my imagination or is it true?  Going through the postings in the
>>rec.arts.sf.*, rec.arts.startrek groups I havew discerned a Libertarian
>>bias or inclination in the posting where some kind of political/social
>>opinion is expressed.
>>
>>Also among persons of my acquaintance in science fiction interest groups I
>>have seen the same thing.
>>
>>I am imposing my own admittedly libertarian bias to my observation, or
>>could it be true.
>>
>>I would like your opinions for a sanity check.

I didn't see the original post, so I'm answering this one.  Since I'm on
alt.politics.libertarian as well, I'm moderately qualified <g>...  Note
that libertarians don't always agree with the position of the
Libertarian Party...

For a start, any Heinlein fan (i.e. one who *agrees* with him) is going
to have a lot in common with libertarians.  Ditto anyone who agrees with
Leslie Fish (well, she's nearer anarchist, but it's similar).

Also, fandom in general tends to be a "live and let live" society -
possibly because most of us are aware that by mundane standards we're
non-normal, and we'd *better* be tolerant of each other or we won't have
*anyone* who accepts us.  There are, of course, exceptions...


> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>I think that depends on the fen.  I can't tell you the number of fen who
>voted in favor of Bill Clinton, a man who could not be considered a
>libertarian by any stretch of the imagination.

That doesn't mean that the voters aren't libertarians, though - they may
have considered him the least bad choice...

>Many fen don't like guns particularly.  While most support the right to
>own guns, I don't think guns are a religious element among many fen
>EXCEPT those who already have a strongly libertarian bent.

Permission to disagree here.  I don't think guns are a 'religious'
element among a noticable number of fen at all.  OK, one or two...  But
I get the impression that those fen who do own guns are reasonably
responsible, and own them for some purpose (i.e. not just because they
like guns per se).  I have no statistics on this, however - does anyone?
If so, please post...

>To the amazement of many fen, there are anti-abortion libertarians.  While
>there are certainly anti-abortion fen, most prefer to keep the government's
>laws out of the bedroom and hospital.  So, if that makes us libertarians, I
>think it's a pretty narrow view.

To the amazement of many *libertarians*, as well!  I don't understand
the bit about 'a pretty narrow view' - could you explain this sentence?
(Request, not flame - I may well agree with you, but I'm not sure what
you're meaning).  Incidentally, I'm on the anti-abortion side (but not
fanatical - I do accept that there are valid reasons on both sides, and
since I'm not a woman I don't consider that my opinions are very
relevant unless it affects someone close to me).

>In short, there are many vocal minorities in fandom.  One of the most vocal
>minorities are the libertarians.  But, to many of us, libertarians seem
>to be represented by gun zealots, and we'd just as soon avoid them, thanks
>very much.

No, libertarians are _freedom_of_choice_ zealots - guns are just an area
that the public (and especially the media) like to pick on.  And it's
easy in debates to get emotions running high on both sides.

>*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
>*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
>*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
>* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
>*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
>*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *

I assume this is a book - I've seen this quote before.  Any details?

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