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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:43:45 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2832
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2832

                           Tuesday, July 28, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 666

                           Re: Low cost ocr system
                    Re: nfb bbs censorship?? You decide.
                          Re: nfb bbs censorship??
               Re: Screen review software for pc Unix system?
                           Re: Speech synthesizer
                    Re: Turbo Braille Version 3 is ready
                           Punctuation and Speech
                            what is a team player
                                   Spanish
                            Re: vendor favoritism


                                ******


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------



Subject: Re: Low cost ocr system
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Tandy Way to David Tanner <=-

 TW> david I am trying to get a friend in to an ocr system as cheaply as
 TW> possible but still fully functional. the arkenstone system is out of
 TW> the question. if he has a 386 what  would the cost of the discover
 TW> package and scanner cost? tandy ===

I think a HP Scanjet plus is running around $1200.  The Discover
386 software is $595 I think, although I could be off a hundred
either way.  There is also the Recognita software that Blazie
sells, for around the same price.  I have both, but don't have them
set up yet.  David Andrews

... Spaceballs: The Tagline

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Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship?? You decide.
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting John R. Mattioli to All <=-

JRM> question.  The question is, "Did the sysop (or sysops) of the NFB
 JRM> board censor this article?"  I suspect that they did, and I believe
 JRM> there may be good reasons for them to do so.  Since you, David,
 JRM> sent a message to Tim that I view as somewhat less then friendly,
 JRM> I'm interested in why you feel this article should be censored.

You and others have thrown around the word sensorship.  I was the
person who removed it from NFB NET.  Was that sensorship.  I don't
think so.  I have told people, and will do so again where they can
get a copy.  I however think that we have no obligation to spread
negative stuff about the organization.  As I said in another
message, people wouldn't expect us to make xerox copies available
in our lobby, or to send out copies of the magazine to our members,
so why should we carry it on our BBS.  If Businessweek or PC Week
did an article on yourorganization dEC, one that was unfriendly,
would you expect DEC to provide you and your fellow employees with
a copy.

David Andrews

... Silver Xpress? Its tracks were washed out by a Blue Wave!

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Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship??
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Carla Campbell to Mike Freeman <=-

CC> Nah-- what I had in mind when I wrote that I was surprised the article
 CC> was not left for "internal debate" on the NFB BBS was not that you or
 CC> your organization would want to refute it point-by-point, but more
 CC> that it might feed discussion on how to counter (positively, not by
 CC> refuting this particular article) what NFB members say are
 CC> misperceptions of the organization.  Seems to me that a group concerned
 CC> with the image of blind people ought, also, to be able (and interested
 CC> in) promoting its own organizational image to potential members as well
 CC> as to the government, airlines and television networks.  I merely
 CC> thought that a careful study of the way the organization is percieved
 CC> by some (whether the perception is eronious or not) might serve the NFB
 CC> well. Knowing thy enemy and all that stuff.
 CC>
 CC> But then, I have heard from a number of members and ex-members, alike,
 CC> that "internal debate" runs a bit against the grain.  I think that's a
 CC> shame, since, if incorporated and sanctioned, it often makes a
 CC> structure stronger, while it can only weaken if done covertly.

Carla,  Your point of examining the article to learn about what
others think of us is an interesting and good one, although the BBS
isn't necessarily the best place to do that, and certainly isn't
the only place where it can be done.  Believe me that Dr. Jernigan,
Mr. Maurer and others are well aware of what others think and say
about them.  The volume of mail and phone calls guarantees that.

You state that internal debate is not tolerated.  This is a
commonly held view but isn't true from what I have seen.  Once a
matter has been voted upon and a resolution is passed, public
debate is tolerated, but private debate goes on all the time.  Dr.
Jernigan has called me up any number of times, or asked me when I
am in his office, what I thought about this or that.  He does
regularly and systematicly gather opinions on a variety of
subjects.  I was also able to sit in on part of the NFB Board
meeting this past Thanksgiving and I can assure you that things
were debated vigorously and thoroughly.

Like any organization, there are better and worse ways to
accomplish your goals.  You as an employee of Telesensory can't say
or do what you want without impunity.  It is the same for the NFB
or any other organization.  It is possible to disagree, it just has
to be done in the appropriate way.

David Andrews

... deny thy father and forget thy tagline.

--
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Subject: Re: Screen review software for pc Unix system?
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Walt Grueninger to All <=-
WG> I am also looking for some advice.  The primary computer here at
 WG> work is a Sun system running Sun's Unix (Solaris).  I access this
 WG> system through a pc running Articvision screen review software and
 WG> Procomm terminal emulator.  I should like to set up a system in my
 WG> home but don't want to have to set up a double system there (Sun
 WG> plus pc).  Is there any screen review software that will run
 WG> directly on a Sun computer?  Is it possible to run any screen
 WG> review software on a pc Unix system.  I would appreciate any
 WG> suggestions.

I have not heard of any commercial products that support Unix
directly.  I talked to a NSA employee who said that they wrote her
and others a basic access program for Unix, but it wasn't fancy,
and I don't know for what flavor of Unix it was for.  I also don't
know of it would be available.

David Andrews

... "Don't mince words, Walt ... what do you *REALLY* think?"

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Subject: Re: Speech synthesizer
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Jonathan Guidry to All <=-

 JG> To All:
 JG> Does anybody know of a good speech terminal program that works with a
 JG> Symphonix speech board?

What do you mean by a speech terminal program?  If you mean what is
usually called a screen review program, there are many that support
the SynPhonis well.  They include Vocal-Eyes, ASAP, Provox, JAWS,
Flipper, Soft Vert ArticBusinessvision if it is a 215 board,
TinyTalk and probably someone I am leaving out.  If you mean
something else, please explain.

David Andrews

p.s.  Demos of many of these programs are on BBS's that cater to
the needs of blind persons, such as the one I run, NFB NET,
410-752-5011.  there are many other good BBS's that also carry
demos.

... Silver Xpress? Its tracks were washed out by a Blue Wave!

--
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Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Turbo Braille Version 3 is ready
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting David Tanner to Daveed Mandell <=-

DT> Let us just say that I am told by a rep that has seen the
 DT> prototype, that one of the big access technology vendors is preparing
 DT> a interpoint printer for release late fall this year that will print
 DT> 40 characters per second, and will be priced around $2,100.00.  If
 DT> that happens it will absolutely change every thing in terms of Braille
 DT> printers for personal use.  At that kind of price, with that kind of
 DT> speed and being interpoint there will be no other printer on the
 DT> market that will be able to touch it.  The only question will be
 DT> Braille quality and reliability.

I haven't heard that rumor in exactly that form.  I have heard
about a new interpoint printer in the $2000 range, from a
manufacturer that has a reputation for making very reliable
machines, although I heard that it would print in the 10 CPS
range.

I just got the Braillo comet.  I haven't used it much yet.  the
Braille quality is better then its predecessor, the Braillo 90,
although still not quite as good as a Romeo or VersaPoint.

The printer came with no Braille manual which really hacks me off.
A personal use Braille printer should have documentation in some
kind of accessible form.  David Andrews

... Click ... click ... click ... damn, out of taglines!

--
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Internet: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Punctuation and Speech
From: David.Andrews@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Andrews)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I got a call from a woman the other day who was looking for
advice.  She has a KPR and uses its DEC-Talk for speech with her
computer.  She has tried both Artic businessvision and JAWS.  She
doesn't like the way it reads.  She says it doesn't sound
natural.  She doesn't want to pronounce the punctuation marks,
period coma, etc., but she does want the system to pause
noticably, breaking up things into sentences.  Any ideas would be
appreciated as I am sure that some of you gurus are more expert
on specifics than I.  Are their changes that could be made in
either program to do what she wants, or would another program
offer better options?
David Andrews

... MONEY TALKS ...   but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!

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Subject: what is a team player
From: Doug.Coyle@f302.n133.z1.fidonet.org (Doug Coyle)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:133/302 - Centurion, Stone Mtn GA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

This discussion about team players is interesting, and I have a
feeling we are getting to the heart of the matter here.  Let me
hastily say that I have no opinion about Dr. Jernigan (or mr.
Jernigan if you prefer).  I only joined the NFB because I have an
e.e.o. complaint outstanding against the federal government and I
want some political backup.

I didn't join because of philosophical reasons.  As a result of
this, my view of the organization is mor like that of a union than
a club.  If a union is involved in a strike action the union can't
put on a public display of disunity because that defeats the whole
purpose of the strike action.  I think the nfb looks at life as a
strike action.  This is gross over-simplification, but I'm only
trying to communicate why I believe Jernigan believes team play is
so important.  If you put a religious organization on one extreme
and a club on the other,organizations like the nfb come somewhere
in the middle.  The religious organization is supposed to be an
autocracy with God as head.

The club is a republic.  The need for putting up a united front
precludes the absolute right of membership in a union-like
organization from exercising complete freedom of speech in public
forums.  That is my view of organizations such as this.  In the
religious organization the ultimate authority is God.  In the union
type of organization the authority is the cause or raison d'etre.

In that religious organization I used to belong to, what happened
is that the clergy began to identify themselves too much with
God,and interposed themselves between the rest of us and God.  They
taught that commitment to God equaled commitment to the
organization.  Logically, then,the organization equals God.

It sounds to me like you guys are saying that in Jernigan's mind
and in the minds of staunch nfb supporters that the cause equals
Jernigan.  If what you say is correct, then the same thing will
happen to the nfb that happened to the religious organization I
used to belong to. After Jernigan is gone there will be a power
vacuum and some egos will try to fill it not having the
understanding of the cause or commitment to the cause which
supposedly motivates Jernigan, but will only be interested in
holding the same power he has.  They will try to draw disciples
away after themselves and split the organization.  It will then be
rendered an ineffective ruin.

If you guys are correct, then the nfb membership is going to get
just what they ask for.  If, however, the membership does
understand the cause and is really committed to it, and not to the
leadership of the organization only, then these things will not
happen.  Heavy poop, ain't it.

It coulde be that the need for security and comfort could blind our
minds to the true nature of what we are bringing about.  we blind
people do need-and maybe we need it too much) at least one little
corner of our lives where we are just one of the guys as opposed to
being the resident blind guy.  A long time ago when I first
experienced the prejudice we all face in the sighted world, I
decided that if I were going to live in the sighted world that I
was going to have to live in the sighted world.  I severed all
contacts with all but a few of my blind friends who were really
friends and kept all my associations within the sighted world.
It's a lonely road to follow, and if I had known then what I know
now I wouldn't have done it.  Going it alone is a heart-breaking
struggle, and I've even found myself enjoying things I read here on
this echo when I find that someone is saying to me, "hey, I've been
there too.

But we cannot allow the sighted world and its lack of emotional
support for us to drive us into a state of mental miopia. We also
as individuals cannot allow our own egos to destroy both the cause
and

[Note from Bill McGarry -- this article arrived here with this
last paragraph truncated.]

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Internet: Doug.Coyle@f302.n133.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Spanish
From: Bill.Burgess@f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Burgess)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:229/401 - The Connection HST!, Oshawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Chris, you stirred up a question with me, due to your post.  Do you know
if most of the grade two braille contractions mean the equivalent word
in other languages, such as Spanish?  I have always wondered about the
international use of braille.  By the way, I do not know Spanish.  TTYL
Bill

 * SLMR 2.1a * Dogs As Working Guides, Oshawa, Ontario, Cda. 1:229/401

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Subject: Re: vendor favoritism
From: Keith.Bucher@hnews.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Quoting Carl Zebooker To Keith Bucher              02-Jul-92 02:19pm

 CZ> Let me be sure I understand what you said. A business made a
 CZ> tax-deductible charitable contribution by loaning some adaptive
 CZ> equipment to the NFB without making an identical tax-deducible
 CZ> contribution to the AFB. Is the statement above correct?

Not entirely.  I don't believe Deane Blazie loaned 50 BNS's to NFB in
order to get a tax deduction.  It was only a loan for a few days to
what might have been several different people, and tax deductions
aren't the question here.  Mr. Blazie, for years, has been a member
of NFB, I have nothing against that, it's his choice.  But taking in
to consideration the political climate within the blind community, it
becomes not merely a matter of his right to do this, but instead good
business practice.  In other words, we're not talking about Dean
Blazie, personally, but his company, Blazie Engineering.  And it's
not that I'm picking on Dean or NfB, for that matter.  No company
whether it be Blazie Engineering, GW Micro, Omnichron, tSI, Artic, or
who ever, should put themselves in the situation of favoring ACB or NFB
by going so far as to loan their products at one national convention and
not the other.  Especially when we are talking about high ticket
items which most people might not otherwise get a chance to try.

 CZ> If so, do you believe that every person who contributes to the NFB
 is required to make an identical contribution to the AFB and vice
 versa?

Certainly not.  But in the first place, Blazie Engineering is not a
person, and loaning a few items at a convention isn't what I'd call a
contribution.  By the way, after reading my original message on the
subject, (At least in my opinion this is what may have caused old Deane
to have a change of heart), beginning Monday July 6, there were indeed
Braille N Speaks available for loan in Phoenix. But take these things in
to consideration, Carl. First of all, there was never any mention in the
Forum about this as there was the Monitor, leaving me to believe that it
wasn't anticipated, thus my good old BlinkTalk message once again.  God
may still perform miracles now and then, but sometimes these BlinkTalk
messages can do their part as well, believe me. Second, they never had
it mentioned on the Public Address System.  Nor was it advertised in
the daily convention newsletter. In other words, if you wouldn't have
stopped by their booth, you might not have known about it. And last but
not least, Mr. Blazie opted not to appear in phoenix even though the
conventions were held on different weeks this year.  I have nothing
against the NFB, matter of fact, I like their BBS and frequent it every
once in a while. But what do you suppose Jernigan and NfB would say if
he had announced in the Forum and not in the Monitor about the BNS's?
And what would they have said if he hadn't even announced plans to loan
them at their convention at all, while instead making it known that
they'd be available in Phoenix?  They wouldn't have liked it at all,
and rightly so, but of course they aren't saying anything, because
the shoe's on their foot, and it fits very well.  I could give other
examples, but I believe this should clarify my position.

 CZ> Mr. Blazie freely chose to do something admirable for the NFB. That
 CZ> seems more than fair to me. You called this bias; I call it free
 CZ> choice.

It's not really a question of doing something admirable for the
organization itself, but those members who just happened to be at the
convention.  Vendors will not prosper if they continue to take sides
in this way.

 CZ> Why no-one has come forward to do the same for the AFB is
a question AFB should ask itself.

No Carl, ACB shouldn't ask itself, all blind people, whether on
either side of the aisle, or whether they're on the aisle at all
should ask Deane Blazie.

 CZ> Mr. Blazie surely is not the only person
 CZ> capable of making such a contribution; if none of the others choose
 CZ> to do so, that is neither Mr. Blazie's fault nor the NFB's.<

I'm not blaming Mr. Blazie for other's actions, nor am I blaming
NfB.  I'm simply saying that this sort of practice should be
deplored by all the blind and it should not be allowed to continue.
If I had enough money to be such a Vendor, I believe I'd at least
be smart enough not to favor one organization over
another, but Deane probably sells enough BNS's that he doesn't care.
Keith.

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                  End of Issue # 2832 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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