HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: gun access/control questions
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:06:31 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

/ iftccu:seattle.general / kkt@milton.u.washington.edu (Patrick Scheible) /  5:33 pm  Jul 26, 1992 /

>To me, registration is a side issue.  Most of the people killed by
>guns are friends or family of the killer:

Correct to this point, but not for the reasons the poster implies.
Except for the random serial killers, most of the time, there is some
'relationship' between killers and victims.  Scumbag's ripping off each
other's stash 'know' each other.  Drug dealers killing each other 'know'
each other.  Youth gangs 'know' each other.  The woman being beaten to
death by her husband 'knows' her husband.  Even a neighborhood punk
knocking over a liquor store is often known by sight by the proprietor.

When the FBI collects these oft quoted statistics, all of the above
situations qualify for at least 'acquaintance' classification.  It is
little wonder that when you understand the classification system, a
disproportionate number of firearms victims are 'friends' family, or
acquaintances of the killer.  This doesn't mean that they 'like' each
other, or have fond feelings for each other, or that they weren't
intending to commit criminal acts against each other!

BS ALERT. BS ALERT. BS ALERT. BS ALERT. BS ALERT. BS ALERT. BS ALERT.

>                                               the killer loses his (or,
>rarely, her) temper, and a gun happened to be available.

As noted above this is rare.

>                                                          Or someone
>was playing with the gun and didn't know it was loaded.  Simple
>registration wouldn't help that at all.

This happens about as often as death by poison gas.  It is far rarer
than death by falling down stairs, death by drowning, death by choking,
death by poison, and about an order of magnitude lower than death by
automobile.

>What I'd like to see is all guns stored where it took some time to get
>at them, say in a gun club.  I release this makes them useless for
>self-defense, and I am certainly not optimistic about it happening
>anytime soon.

This is shear nonsense.  Not that the poster doesn't mean well, just
that Patrick appears to be terribly mis-informed.  Criminals don't
register their weapons.  They aren't terribly likely to join or leave
them at gun clubs.

Most of the 'crimes of passion' are nothing of the sort.  They are FAR
outnumbered by legitimate uses of firearms for self defense.  The net
result of this well intentioned suggestion would be increased crime and
more victims.

Please become informed on these issues before simply regurgitating HCI
propaganda to the net.  Good intentions alone won't solve these
problems.

Rick.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods 
Organization: Apex Computer Company
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:35:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.181917.14349@seanews.akita.com> billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.160346.29763@apex.com> chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul27.043429.15821@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:
>>>OK, WODDers, what's wrong with these arguments?  Why must our freedoms,
>>>lives and livelihoods continue to be sacrificed for your insane desire
>>>to keep people from being high or from partaking of pleasure in other ways?
>>>
>>>You get rid of the elements of crime and high-stakes risk associated with
>>>drugs and a *lot* of problems go away.  Sure, a few people will ingest
>>>drugs and then go and operate heavy machinery, just like they do right now.
>>>There might be even a temporary overshoot in the accident rate.  That would
>>>*still* be less than the ongoing murder rate with drugs illegal.  You also
>>>free up the resources tied up in *nonproductive* enterprises like jails and
>>>associated jobs (which otherwise create a vested interest in drugs remaining
>>>illegal, but contribute nothing else to economic productivity) to be used
>>>hopefully to aid economic recovery.  Moreover, some of those drugs (hemp,
>>>in particular) are generally useful plants, with a wide variety of desirable
>>>properties and by-products.
>>
>>Do you really believe that the people making the huge profits selling illegal
>>drugs will just go away?  If the government is selling legal drugs
>>I would expect the gangs to sell something "better".  You don't want that
>>govt shit, this stuffs a lot better.
>
>Kind of an interesting perspective.  When was the last time Seagrams and
>Miller Brewing Company had a shootout?
>
>Not a lot of rum-running prohibition gangs running around today, eh?

True.  But was the crime associated with prohibition ever as extensive?

Actually I am somewhat in favor with the elimination of drug laws.
But only if ALL drug laws go as well as ALL publically funded support systems
for the chemically dependent.  Anyone who wishes to use drugs, including
alcohol is welcome to, but don't force others to pay for it.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: gwynne@milton.u.washington.edu ()
Subject: Wanted: Rental House
Reply-To: gwynne@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:15:57 GMT

I am looking to rent a 2-bedroom house, preferably in the U-District, 
Ravenna-Bryant or Wedgewood areas.

I am not a student, have a full time job here at the UW, and am tired
of living in an apartment setting that is beginning to feel as if I
live in student housing.  

I am pretty up on what current rental prices are and don't expect a 
miracle but can't pay $1200 a month.  Would like to pay in the $600
to $800 range but would prefer to stay towards the lower end of that.

If you are a landlord as well as a "news" reader or if you know of an
upcoming rental in your neighborhood, please e-mail me.  I am on the
mainframe every day so will get the message.

Thanks,

Kristan
gwynne@u.washington.edu
From: wood@eisley.akita.com (Ken Wood)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: gun access/control questions
Summary: Repeal the 2nd Amendment.
Keywords: guns, confiscate, militia, Bill of Rights, overthrow, totalitarianism
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 04:33:56 PDT
Organization: Mos Eisley Spaceport BBS

sds@jazzie.com (Sean Shapira) writes:

> What I don't understand is why the gun control advocates don't flat-
> out propose repealing that pesky second amendment?
> 
> *   A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security 
> *   of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear  
> *   arms, shall not be infringed.
> -- 
> Sean Shapira        seans@microsoft.com        sds@jazzie.com

     The bill is before congress right now.  It was sponsored by  a 
democratic congressman from Rhode Island.  It looks like it will be 
defeated by a good margin though.

     Ken Wood



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| wood@eisley.akita.com           :     Don't eat the rocks.              |
| eisley!wood@polari.online.com   : -The First Law of Bovine Cogitation.- |
| wood@seanews.akita.com          :                                       |
| wood@pismo.wa.com               :     Who let the pigs play poker?      |
| (In above order of preference.) :     Evo Shander was right!            |
| "Don't look back, someth'in might be gaining on ya."  -- Satchel Page   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: mzenier@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: Yet another difference between Switzerland and the US
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:25:20 GMT

In article <3122@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
>I don't know what everyone is raving about re: chocolate made in Europe.
>There is a candy factory in Issaquah that turns out a pretty fine bit
>of convection that tastes so good they charge 'bout $25.00-30.00 per lb.
>I think a  6 oz. box was $12.00.  Sorry I can't remember the name of the
>establishment.

Boehm's.  They also have a store on Ravenna Blvd. south of Green Lake,
and a couple of other stores or franchises (Burien and Lynnwood according 
to the phone book).

But if you buy enough of their chunk chocolate, you can piece together
the real manufacturers names.  They don't make their own chocolate,
they just use it as an ingredient to make great stuff.

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  mzenier@polari.online.com
From: bmyers@tc.fluke.COM (Bob Myers)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.forsale
Subject: Acura For Sale ('87 Legend Sedan, Xlnt Cond)
Keywords: Acura Legend Sedan V6 4 Door Grey 5 Speed
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:14:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Jul27.141458.7757
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: pnw
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


FOR SALE: 1987 Acura Legend

     Metallic grey 4-Door Sedan

     o 5-speed, air, cruise. 

     o Power windows, mirrors, sunroof and door locks. 

     o AM/FM Cassette Stereo with eq and four speakers.

     o Alarm and set of four studded snow tires on factory alloy wheels.

     o Excellent condition inside and out.  

     o 87,000 mostly highway miles.  

     o Well maintained with all service records available. 

     Reliable, quick and comfortable.  $10,450.

     Contact Bob Myers (bmyers@tc.fluke.COM)
             356-5299 Days
             285-9463 Evenings

-- 




"When I am inaccurate, I am definitively inaccurate."

Bob Myers
bmyers@tc.fluke.COM
From: unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Three great kittens available.
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:26:58 GMT
Organization: MITEM Corp

Three, four month old kittens need a home!  We've been adopted by
three kittens who were born to a neighbor's cat.  We've been taking
care of them for the past month, but are planning to leave town soon
ourselves.  Otherwise, we'd adopt them.

They are all friendly, unbearably cute and playful, and like their
meals three times a day without delay.  As siblings they are very
affectionate and playful with each other and have requested to be kept
together, if possible.

If you're interested in a kitten, or kittens, call Tom or Emily at:

	(206) 524.2073

Or reply to unger@mitem.com.  We live in the University District.

Tom & Emily
From: major@shuksan.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Militia (was: Results of I 590)
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:21:02 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


  Whatever was the intended definition of "militia" was when the framers
  of the Constitution used the term - today it can have a different meaning.

  Washington State has a Militia.  It is a uniformed armed military 
  organization which belongs to the Military Department of the State.  It is
  NOT the Washington National Guard (WANG), which can be federalized, nor is
  it the Reserves.  The Milita can not operate outside the boundaries of
  Washington State.  It's formed along the lines of an army division with
  brigades, battalions and companies located throughout the state.  Essentialy
  it's a light infantry unit designed to perform civil defense functions and
  take over Guard functions should they be federalized and deployed away from
  the state.  I don't know how 'well-regulated' it is..........



-- 
Mike Schmitt - Disclaimer: These opinions are not my employer's.  My opinions 
are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of
America.  If you don't like it - get out of my country.   
"Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous."
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed 
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News & Mail
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:28:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.220714.5347@u.washington.edu> fetrow@biostat.washington.edu (David Fetrow) writes:
>>> In article <1992Jul20.060118.234@u.washington.edu> davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts) writes:
>>> >In article <1733@rwing.UUCP>, pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes:
>>> >> WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
>>> >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> >I don't want to even get started on that one (or did I just volunteer
>>> >myself to write a several-hundred-line essay on it :-) ).
>>> 
>>> This is something I completely and absolutely agree with.  It only took one
>>> experience set set this firmly in my mind after an interesting experience in
>>> a hotel.
>>> . . .
>
> As a former motel nightclerk on Aurora you have no idea how happy that
>thought makes me. Nothing is more fun than dealing with an armed guest. Yes
>sirree. 
>
> ..and yes, I once had the happy task of cooling down a situation where an
>armed drunk guy was trying to break into his ex-wife's room. No fun but at
>least there was only one gun instead of two (didn't know about the gun when
>I got involved).

Quick question.  Who was the guest?  The ex-husband or the wife?  Was the
problem that the guest was armed or that some random drunk thug ex-husband
was armed?

I see a typical gun-control fallacy here.  Taking guns away from the good
guys won't stop the bad guys from getting guns.  England has one of the
toughest gun-control laws in the world, but the bad guys still shoot.

Bill
-- 
SEANEWS        [] Seattle News + Mail []         +1 206 937 9529
billmcc@seanews.akita.com                          Public Access

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Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods 
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:26:01 GMT

 So, where/how does one get a carry permit?

 Where do you go to get instruction and practice?

 I suppose that it is possible to buy a pistol
 at any of the gun shops in the area.  Does
 Washington state, King Co. or Seattle have
 a waiting period?
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: DWI
Date: 20 Jul 92 17:12:20 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1992Jul17.170029.4378@fnx.uucp> del@fnx.uucp (Dag Erik Lindberg) writes:
>
>It is not reasonable, if the govenment does so by passing 'prior
>restraint' laws.  I cannot support laws which punish people because they
>'are likely to kill someone'.  I agree with the original poster, the
>only 'law' which should apply to my state of mind and body when I get
>behind the wheel is that I am responsible for what happens while I am
>driving.  If I kill someone, the state of my sobriety hardly matters,
>does it?  Note that I am *not* advocating driving while intoxicated,
>merely objecting to something which appears to be a 'prior restraint'
>law.

Oh come on Dag, you can't be serious.  It appears to me that your position
would lead to total anarchy.  From your positon you call it "restraint"
but from the potiental victems position it's called "protection".  A lot
of our laws could be considered "prior restraint".  What about traffic
laws?  Should we be allowed to ignore stop signs and red lights as long
as we don't injure person or property?  Should I be allowed to store
dynamite on my propery... as long as I don't blow up the neighborhood?

Under your concept, our society could do nothing to protect anybody as
its hard to protect someone after the fact.  What if someones idea of
fun on Friday nights was to put 1 bullet in their gun, give the chamber
a spin, hunt you down, and pull the trigger?  No problem as long as 
they don't *actually* shoot you right?  Somehow I find it hard to believe
you would be unwilling to "restrain" the individual prior to him
actually shooting you.  

In a perfect society where everyone considers the potiental consequences
of their actions and puts the safety and well being of those around them
before their own desires, I might buy your argument, but get real....
thats not the real world (unfortunatly).


-- 
Michael Burr   mnb@voodoo.boeing.com  | Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Subject: Re: Yet another difference between Switzerland and the US
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Organization: The John Fluke Mfg. Co.  /a.k.a. The Gizmonics Institute/
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:26:56 GMT

In <1992Jul20.212505.21330@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:

>BTW how does Dilettante Chocolates (on Capitol Hill, Sea.) compare with
>the best Belgian/Swiss Chocolate?  

It depends on the type of Dilettante chocolate (dark, milk, special brands),
but while good, it's definitely not up to Belgian or Swiss (native, not
exported) chocolate.  (I've had exported Lindt dark chocolate that that's a
good cut above Dilettante's brand.)  Some of D's nougat-loaded hybrids have
been extremely good, though.

I've had real, flown-out-in-suitcases local Belgian and Swiss chocolate
about eight times in my life, and the effects are identifiable, and so far
unrepeatable by domestic chocolates:

    1)  Almost evaporates in the mouth

    2)  Effects appear to skip the neural routes and go directly to
        the brain

    3)  Loss of consciousness

---

I take that back a bit -- I had a box of very fresh Van Dynn's chocolates,
years ago at Reed, that came close to that effect.  (However, it was after
the annual Christmas bash, and other influences could have been at work.)

                           "If you're thirteen and you want to feel like a
                            happy king, you know, it's time to get therapy."

                                           -- Mike Nelson
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham)
Subject: Re: Militia (was: Results of I 590)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 19:14:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.150826.13984@tc.fluke.COM> strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong) writes:
>The 2nd Amendment says, "A well regulated militia being necessary for
>the security of a free state,  (which is interesting and historically
>informative) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be
>infringed."  
>
>you will notice that it did not say, "the right of people who are
>members of said militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." 
>
>In fact, the part of the amendment in front of the comma is strictly
>parenthetical, and has no effect on the force of the predicate of the
>amendment, which is that, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms
>shall not be infringed."  
>
>In other words, it isn't necessary to define 'militia' in order to
>understand the 2nd amendment.  

If you read the Constitution, it quickly becomes apparent that there are
no wasted words in it. Nor are there parenthetical expressions. Your right
to bear arms is explicitly linked to your membership in the militia. That
is why the first clause of the 2d Amendment exists. After all, it would
have been much simpler to state: "The right of the people to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed" if that was all you meant. It is also
why the militia clause still exists in the Federal Code. The Militia of
the United States is the adult male citizen population which has not been
disqualified by felony conviction.

If you doubt my argument, I would suggest rereading the Constitution. Pay
attention to the way in which it is written. Everything is set forth in
the simplest language possible and everything in it has some specific
legal effect. 


-- 
Stephen Graham
graham@cs.washington.edu	 uw-beaver!june!graham
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: DWI
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:41:28 GMT

In article <69020007@misty.boeing.com> hochberg@misty.boeing.com (michael hochberg) writes:
>Driving is a priveledge we earn by taking a test and drivers education
>classes.  It is not a right.      

     I had been taught that the above was true, but after reading a number
of articles on Drunk drivers maiming or killing people and claiming in
court that they need their car to get to work, then they are allowed to
keep their license even after a number of DWI offenses - it is apparent that
Driving is a right and it is very hard for the government to take it away
from someone (especially if they are rich).

-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
From: hochberg@misty.boeing.com (michael hochberg)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Government grants privileges? (was: Re: DWI)
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:14:47 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

In response to David,

I agree, the people grant the government power in order to protect us 
from endangerment (the police, as you say, is a fine example of this).  

However, making DWI, (which is one citizen recklessly endangering 
the lives and property of others) illegal is within the powers
we granted the government.

Mike
Newsgroups: seattle.general,uw.forsale
From: uwnews@u.washington.edu
Subject: 1990 VW Jetta (Wolfsburge edition) FOR SALE
Originator: aklee@milton.u.washington.edu
Reply-To: aklee@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:14:43 GMT


           *****FOR  SALE*****
             1990 VW JETTA
           (Wolfsburg Edition)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
* Color (Rare Gray)
* Automatic
* 4 Door
* Power Steering
* Air Conditioning
* Cloth Interior
* 29 Highway/17 City
* Stereo/Cassette
* 47K Miles

+ Never been in accident
+ Maintained and serviced with care
+ Runs perfect
+ Perfect family car

 CAR LIKE NEW !!

 Ask for $8500

 If interested, please call:

 Ken Willits
 Home: 523-7053
 Work: 821-1161
---------------------------------------
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: hochman@milton.u.washington.edu (Daryl Hochman)
Subject: Late Night Coffee in Seattle?
Reply-To: hochman@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 05:56:54 GMT

Does anybody know of any places that stay open late serving coffee
(later than midnight)?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: smithgt@zoocolortv.zoology.washington.edu (Troy Smith)
Subject: Shared Housing -- Wedgwood
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:07:58 GMT

SHARED HOUSING AVAILABLE IN WEDGWOOD

* 3 Bedroom, 1-1/2 bath house
* Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher
* Garage
* Fireplace
* Wood floors
* Beautiful yard with lots of trees
* <50 yds to Burke-Gilman bike trail; 20 min. bike ride to UW
* 1 block to Matthews Beach
* 1 block to 75, 41 bus routes to UW, downtown, Northgate
* Share with 2 zoology graduate students
* Rent is $300/month plus 1/3 utilities
* Available as soon as August 16.

Call Troy or James at 525-9321 or respond via e-mail  
(smithgt@zoology.washington.edu) for more info.
Newsgroups: seattle.general