HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Communist Nostalgia
Date: 16 Apr 92 08:36:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.NIKOLAY.92Apr16013650
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au's message of Thu, 16 Apr 92 01:49:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.014917.15754@marlin.jcu.edu.au>, 
phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Vsevolod A Sukhanovsky) writes:


> Just a few popular proverbs:

> 1/ Za kommunistami pojdesh' - dorogu v zhizni najdesh'.
> 2/ Nabirajsja sily u grudi materi, a uma - u Kommunisticheskoj partii.
> 3/ Slavitsja pole snopami, a Sovetskoe pravitel'stvo - delami.
> 4/ Potomu nam khorosho zhivetsja, chto druzhba narodov v strane
> vedetsja.
> 5/ Ran'she zhili - sljozy lili, teper' zhivem - schast'e kuem. 
>              (outdated)
> 6/ My muzhajem i rastem, za partiej idem.


Two more that come to mind, in particular:

         Nam vidna iz Kremlia vsia sovetskaia zemlia.
         V bor'be za miaso ne teriai ni chasa.

There used to be whole books of them.

But could someone explain this? When I was in high school,
(in Kishinev) there hung for a while among other slogans in 
the school's auditorium one that read:

         Slava miru na zemle!
         Slava khlebu na stole!
                   L. I. Brezhnev

Where does it come from?

Philip Nikolayev at nikolay@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leif@NeoSoft.com (Lee King)
Subject: Re: Going to Russia
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:49:05 GMT

jillc@EAGLE.MIT.EDU (Jill Costello) wrote:

>If you are a student and/or under 26 years old, the best
>airfares I have found have been through Council Travel. This may
>sound like an advertisement, but I assure you I have no connection
>to the company....
>They buy up huge numbers of tickets for students (and faculty in
>some instances), and other travel agents admit that they just
>can't compete with Council's student fares. They offer very
>flexible tickets, with up to a year to return (many other travel
>agents limit travel to 3 months), and a minimal fee for changing
>your return date ($25). Fares vary depending on the season, but
>for spring departure (until June 15) I was recently quoted a
>Boston-Moscow round trip fare on British Airways (only through
>Council Travel - British Airways cannot give me the same deal on
>their own) for $689.


  Jill is right, but you don't have to be 26 or younger.  I just made a
reservation with Council Travel for Houston-Moscow with a Paris-Houston
return for $750 + $20 tax.  And I'm way over 26!  
  A CIEE international student ID card is a great thing to get and they
have good travel insurance.  Teachers can get the good rates, too.
  
Lee 
-- 
Curious about the Libertarian Party? Call LP National HQ at 1-800-682-1776,
or send you USPS address to 0003455647@mcimail.com, attn. Marc Montoni
From: kcumming@BINGVAXU.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re:  info on Russia
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:14:21 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton

Mark,

thanks for your friends name and address.  I plan to drop them a letter
this weekend.  Are they in 'JORDAN' or 'JORDANVILLE"?  I can't find a
Jordanville on my NY map, yet their area code (315) is Syracuse NY
region and I know of a town called JORDAN in this area (in fact only
about 1 1/2 hrs from me).  Do you know the zip code?  If you aren't
sure, I'll call them to find out - I just though if I could I'd write
first to introduce my self.  Thanks again.

Kitty Cummings
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:2923 talk.politics.soviet:3277
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Ne ebi mozgi, Shvartsman!
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:06:28 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


[EW]      You should be laughed off the net for posting such drivel,
[EW]      Allister.  Never having lived in the USSR, you are not in
[EW]      a position to make such wild allegations.  For your information,
[EW]      my Russian teacher in Chernovtsy, Ukraine was Moldavian and
                                 ^
[BB]                             |
[BB]                  should be "Chernivtsi"
[BB]            (after all, this IS a Ukrainian city)



      I've never met a Ukrainian who objected to someone's referring
      to Chernivtsi as Chernovtsy.  You are a truly aberrant
      individual, esteemed Bogdan.


[EW]      spoke with a perceptible Moldavian accent.  NO ONE laughed
[EW]      her out of the classroom!


[BB]-- Edward Wiener

[BB] Another "pearl of wisdom" from Wiener...  Ukraine *is not* Moldova, Wiener.
[BB] What is applicable to one country is often not applicable to another.  In the
[BB] USSR, Ukraine was known as a model of toleration for minorities (same holds

   
      The Ukraine "a model of toleration for minorities?"  Have you
      ever lived in the Ukraine, Bodnar?  Do you know what it meant
      to be a Jew in the Ukraine, esteemed Dr.?  Do you know that
      hundreds of talented Chernovtsy Jews were compelled to enroll
      in Russian universities (Kazan', Ryazan', Tula, etc.) because
      they were refused consideration by Chernovtsy State Univ.
      (ChGU) on ethnic/religious grounds?  I am citing only a minor example
      of your lauded "toleration of minorities."  


      As for Shvartsman's claim that Moldavian teachers were "laughed
      out of the classroom" for speaking Russian with an accent, I
      think that nothing needs to be added.  Why should Moldavian
      teachers have been laughed out of the classroom in Moldavia
      if they were tolerated in the Ukraine?  Any references from
      either of you blackshirts?


[BB] true now -- note the massive influx of Russian Jews into Ukraine over the past
[BB] six months).  Now stop whining and do your homework.


      	 Ever read "Chelovek v futlyare," Bogdan?


[BB] Dr. Bohdan Bodnar
[BB] AT&T Bell Laboratories
[BB] Naperville, IL 60566



-- Edward Wiener
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("A. Allister Shvartsman, EMF, LKG2-2/T2,
              226-5350 17-Apr-1992 0017")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: An old Soviet joke
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:26:36 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Brezhnev peeled off his eyebrows, and with the words:
"Pahshutyhlih eeh khvahtit!" glued them under his nose.

Alex

NB The quoted sentence is in Russian, but with a Georgian accent.
   It can be translated as "we joked enough, and now back to business".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: henrik@kpc.com (Henrik Livasgani)
Subject: Re: A Review of one of Mutlu's Sources
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:20:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.191433.1390@mits.mdata.fi>, jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla) writes:
|> I already stopped going to kebab restaurants owned by Turkish people.
|> Shame. I loved those kebabs. But that Mutlu is just such a pissant that
|> it gives me great weird pleasure to discriminate any Turkish while he's
|> not around.
|> 
|> -- 
|> jjj@mits.mdata.fi   Mind         Heart         No      Me
|> jjj@niksula.hut.fi  Difference   Destruction   Death   You

 I don't think Mullu will get this message. You see he thinks that all
 of spend all day going through his "BULLSHIT". 
 Why don'y you "MUTLU" write to your own newsgroup. Or go write a book
 about all this!!!!! You never know it could be hot seller in "Turkey".
 
 This is simply for "Soviet.Culture". If Hasan claims that thre are 
 50 million TURKS in Soviet Union, let us hear from them not MUTLU
 that occupies a chair in the University of Michigan !!!!!

 Henry
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Scouting and it's usurpation by the commies
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:15:37 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Broook
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Apr9.202122.17711@tfs.com> petrov@tfs.com writes:

> 
> 	Vsegda gotov!

Nu i mudak!
From: misha@ccs.northeastern.edu (michael tselman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Envelope but no letter : -(
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:44:42 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Apr9.184353.11001@unixland.natick.ma.us> you write:
>Again today I received a letter from the ex-USSR that was just a badly
>damaged envelope with nothing inside it.
>
>This is the second time that's happened (from different people). Am I
>just particularly unlucky, or does this happen to others receiving mail
>from the CIS? Is there a solution? (i.e. asking my friends to tape all around
>the envelopes [assuming tape is available and not in short supply like
>everything else :-( ], or advising them not to put too much stuff inside
>the envelope?)
>
>Sharon  
>-- 
>Sharon Machlis Gartenberg
>Framingham, MA  USA
>email: sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us   or   uunet!think.com!unixland!sharon

The mail to me gets perfectly from Moscow or St.Petersburg. (in 7-13 days)
I works terribly from local cities in exUSSR (like Uryupinsk). My friend 
had to get two letters from such cities but one certainly got lost and the 
other came in opened envelope with one page instead of six plus some photos.
So I don't think that it's a matter of how good the envelop is sealed,
but rather through how many "hands" it goes before getting out of exUSSR.

Misha
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Edward Wiener is harassing (was Re: Word of Mutlu)
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 14:26:45 GMT

In article <JIME.92Apr16140832@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> jime@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>In article <deleted> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:
>>   Mutlu Honey,
>>
>>      This is 'Gav*' speaking... Just kidding!
>>      So, what's up, Hasan?  What's new in the world of
>>      the deranged and physically deformed?
>>
>>      Say, how's your boss <deleted> doing at:
>>
>>	(708) <deleted>
>>	<deleted>@ihlpa.att.com
>>
>>      BTW, is your phone number really
>>
>>	(708) <deleted>??? :-)
>>
>>
>>   -- Ed
>
>This message constitutes pure harassment, and should not be tolerated.
>You should be ashamed of yourself, Edward Wiener.  Please lay off.
>
>--
>=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

  Ne baluj'sia Edik ! Tuta krugom duzhe surioznye diadi ...
From: chiapell@BBN.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Attention !!!
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:06:01 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA

In article <9276B301A020905B@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU> you write:
>
>   An organization in Russia wants to lease a piece of bank
>of famous Seliger lake (not far from St.Peterburg) on the
>period of 50 years (with a license on the following redemption).
>Entirely 300.000 square meters (but it may be divided on
>sections). Payment is 5000$ or 600,000 roubles per
>10,000 sq.meters.
>
Oooh! Sounds like prime real estate where you can sun yourself by the lake for
4 days out of the year and wish you were somewhere else. Such a deal!
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: fidonet
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:02:21 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Broook
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Apr12.172900.3081@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

> pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter B. Maggs) writes:
...
> Does anyone know how to get to fidonet from internet.  THere
> is some sort of gateway address, but I've lost my notes on it.
> SEcond, has anyone actually communicated from the US to Russia
> and vice versa using fidonet?  I have a a friend in Siberia.
> He has only a fidonet address.

Hi,

Yep, there is gating. Unfortunately it is somewhat cumbersome and I forgot
the exact rules of Internet address constructing for given FidoNet address.
However you may easily obtain this info from postmaster@hq.demos.su or
postmaster@kiae.su . Just send them a request.

Have a good mailing!

Greg
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:3140 soc.culture.europe:3835
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: The Main Victims Of PKK's Attacks Are Fellow Kurds, 'Milanini.'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:49:00 GMT



<1992Apr14.023318.29759@microsoft.com>
marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI)

>Even if only people carrying weapons, or even PKK terrorists,
>were dead in those bombings (which I doubt), it would still
>be shameful for the Turkish government. I think it was once again
>a "kill first, trial after".

You blew it again. The main victims of PKK's attacks are fellow
Kurds in southeastern Turkiye. The PKK is receiving important
logistical and material support from Iraq and Syria. Such 
assistance includes rockets, artillery and other weapons more
suited to full-scale combat than terrorist operations, 'Milanini.'
The people of Turkiye will deal firmly with this terrorist Marxist
gang.

>Who else calls those people "terrorists" but the Turkish governement ?

The cold-blooded murder of 3000+ defenseless Turkish women and children
will not go unpunished.

>The fact that they disagree with the Turkish policy, and try to impose
>by force something that has been denied to them so far does not make
>them terrorists.

What are you mumbling, 'Milanini?' The PKK was created by the KGB.

>Because someone else does something does not make this something right.
>I think that a democratic government would trial someone before
>putting them to death. I you think otherwise, you should read more
>about human rights.

Obviously you know very little about the extermination of 3000+ innocent
people by the PKK. Again, no ethnic or religious group was given minority 
status in Lausanne Agreement except non-Muslims in Turkiye and Muslims 
in Greece, given the status on the basis of reciprocity. Also recognized 
were special rights which could be described as privileges. That was how 
the Greek and Jewish communities gained a 'minority' status. It seems that 
you have not had time to study the Lausanne Agreement. Read the Lausanne 
Agreement and the Turkish Constitution before you drivel. 

>I am sure that they are very thankful for your nice words.

What is your problem now?

>"Show me a man who thinks he knows, and I shall show you a fool"

Don't worry about occasional failures.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:2917 soc.culture.german:2906
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.turkey.soc.culture.greece.soc.culture.europe
Subject: ANOTHER multu KILL record!
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:53:05 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

The joys of cross-posting! Having opened up the "Mutlu Kill file" competition
to all of Europe, North America and other places, has seen my E-mail box grow
very fat.
 
To the 30 + people who asked how to kill Mutlu articles: please ask someone
locally as the procedure may vary depending on your news reader and other
software.
 
There is a new US record holder in class 1 (maximum kill count by any means).
 
Robert L. Kimmel of the United States has achieved a "kill" count of 57. This
replaces the previous record in Class 1 - set only yesterday - of 33, set by
Vlad Rutenburg.

ASIDE: 

(As you may remember, Vlad was a real life victim of Mr.
Mutlu - having been gagged by his employer at Mr Mutlu's instigation from
posting to USEnet. Vlad had supposedly made slanderous statements to the effect
that Mr Mutlu was probably a Turkish terrorist. It was a joke, but - as we all
know - Mr Mutlu is devoid of humour.)

CURRENT STANDINGS:

WORLD RECORD CLASS 1 (highest kill count by any means)
 
David Morning - 73 (also U.K. record holder)

National records CLASS 1
 
Robert Kimmel - USA  - 57 "mutlus"
Melvin Klassen - Canada - 43 "mutlus"
I-Can't-remember-SORRY! - Germany - 69 "mutlus" (I will look this up a include
in the next count - my apologies...I don't want to re-type all this right now)
Steve Withers - New Zealand - 17 "mutlus"
 
WORLD RECORD CLASS 2 (Highest CLEAN "kill" count - singlepass/no fiddles)
 
Vlad Rutenburg 33 - (also USA record holder in Class 2, though Robert L.
Kimmel rates special mention with 31.)
 
National records CLASS 2 
 
Vlad Rutenburg USA  - 33
Steve Withers - NZ - 17
 
 
This competition is open to all. If I err on the results.....well, who cares?
 
David. I have sent you a gif of a kebab via sea-mail on an 8" floppy disk with
non-standard formatting. 
 
Steve Withers
Self-appointed Moderator of whatever this is.
 
(P.S. - The negotiations with the Olympic committee to demonstration status
for "mutlu kill file filtering" are opening next week.

-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
Ph. +64 4 478-4714  /                   |  And the stars going round in 
FAX between 6am and 1pm Eastern ST      |  my head." R. L. S.
From: gt4342d@prism.gatech.EDU (Sergey K. Asvadurov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: PRAVDA
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:58:46 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

TV declared today that PRAVDA will be published again, though three times a
week.

================================================================
Sergey K. Asvadurov
Internet: gt4342d@prism.gatech.edu
tel. (404) 676-1588
================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Vsevolod A Sukhanovsky)
Subject: A proverb about SOVOK
Summary: -
Keywords: soviet zhopa
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 23:52:07 GMT

Sovok - on i v Afrike Sovok !

Who can translate it ? But don't write 'Sovok is Sovok even in Africa'.


|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  Vlad Sukhanovsky                  | AUSTRALIA |     *      |   J.C.Uni     |
|  James Cook University, Townsville |  _--_|\,  |   *   *    |   . | |,      |
|  E-mail: phvas@marlin.jcu.edu.au   | /      \  |      '     |   W W ]} \    |
|  Fax: + 61 77 795717               | \_.--._/  |     *      | /_|_|_|__>>__ |
|  Phone: + 61 77 814825             |       v   | QUEENSLAND |  \______/     |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:3136 talk.politics.soviet:3460
From: misha@cs.washington.edu (Michael Rabinovich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Grad Math in Russia: Steklov, Novosibirsk, etc
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:55:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr13.022927.5919@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Viznyuk) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.222601.18117@watdragon.waterloo.edu> plcheck@daisy.waterloo.edu (Paul Check) writes:
>>Dear Reader,
>>
>>   I am interested in information on studying graduate level mathematics
>>in Russia.  Particularly, there are two institutes I have noticed
>>by browsing through journal articles, namely the Steklov Institute
>>and the (?) Novosibirsk Math Institute (?).  I have no knowledge
>>of Russian, but am willing to take some time (1 year) to learn the
>>basics.  My questions are:
>>
>>1. Do these or other universities in Russia take foreign students?
>>2. Is it possible to study at these places with 1 year of Russian
>>   background?
>>3. Does anybody have the e-mail/realmail addresses of these places?
>>
>>While all responses are welcome, any opinions of past/present students of
>>Russian math programs would be great!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Paul Check
>>plcheck@daisy.waterloo.edu
>
>  Steklov Institute is non-educational institution. The same
>is true probably about Novosibirsk Math Institute.
>So I think you would not get any math courses there.
>Try to get to Mechanical-Mathematical Dept of Moscow
>State University.
>S.V.

True, both institutes are non-educational. However, in the xUSSR,
graduate students (aspirants) are commonly accepted to such non-educational
research institutions. They are all supported (I do not know about
the size of the stipend now), and generally no teaching duties are required.
Basically, these people are considered staff members. 

Steklov Institute (and it's Sp. Peterburg's division, Leningrad Division
of Steklov Mathematical Institute , LOMI) are among the most prestigious 
places to do math in Russia.

Unfortunately, they used to be notorious in denying admission based on
national origin (specificsally, to Jews). Of course, that was a common
policy to restrict access of Jews to basic sciences. This was the reason 
for thousands of talented young people to leave the Soviet Union, and 
it was also damaging for the remaining researchers since it was corrupting
their scientific integrity. (Funny enough, now scientific establishment
is complaining about the brain drain! They worked so hard to convince
young Jews that there is no opportunities for them if their interests
happen to be in humanities or basic sciences, so now they should not be
surprized). Anyway, I hope something has changed now in this respect.

Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: lego@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Martin Lee Group)
Subject: Re: AIWA
Keywords: VCR PAL/SECAM/NTSC
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:04:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.184936.967@gtech.com> ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov) writes:
>Hi, I would like to see SECAM video tapes in USA.  I saw information
>about new AIWA VCR  suitable for this porpose. But it seems
>impossible to buy AIWA product in USA. Please, give me some hints what
>model is it and where to buy.
>Thank you
>Aleksey Y. Romanov

Many companies produce multi-system VCR and DONT FORGET TV too
Back in USSR the most popular were Panasonics and Sharps
Here I've seen a nice JVC system
To get it you can contact any authorized dealer or simply
go to the shop which sells "220 V" electronics.
Regards

Valeri Smelyansky



Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: jime@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Edward Wiener is harassing (was Re: Word of Mutlu)
Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:08:32

In article <deleted> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:
>   Mutlu Honey,
>
>      This is 'Gav*' speaking... Just kidding!
>      So, what's up, Hasan?  What's new in the world of
>      the deranged and physically deformed?
>
>      Say, how's your boss <deleted> doing at:
>
>	(708) <deleted>
>	<deleted>@ihlpa.att.com
>
>      BTW, is your phone number really
>
>	(708) <deleted>??? :-)
>
>
>   -- Ed

This message constitutes pure harassment, and should not be tolerated.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Edward Wiener.  Please lay off.

--
=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)