HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Subject: Fund Raisers
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:27:00 GMT

In article 21107@oracorp.com, kathy@oracorp.com (Kathy S. Knight) writes:
>PS  I am the leader of a newly bridged Cadette troop and would
>welcome any ideas for activities and fund raisers.

This might be a good time to trot out my rules for a good fundraiser. 
These rules have been developed over the last five years of running a 
Cub Scout Pack.

1. Use a single point of sale product. You give me some money, I give you
a product. This approach gives you a great deal of flexibility on how you
sell. A cute kid in uniform, or other recognizable organizational affiliation,
can sell anything to a passerby. Many large stores are willing to let you sell
out front on a limited basis, even when it's a product they carry (it's bad
form to ask to do that though). If the fundraiser requires orders to be taken,
you will be hitting up the same folks everytime; the nextdoor neighbor, family,
the folks at work. The little sales person has to be able to get back to them
to deliver the product. There is always some confusion on when to pay. There 
are also those who will back out when the product is delivered.

2. Keep the price as close as possible to $1.00. There is a reason most 
lottery tickets are a dollar. It is an impulse buy price. People don't think
twice about shelling out a dollar for something (sad comment on the economy)
Once you reach $5.00, people start to think about the value of the product. 
Let's face it. You never get your moneys worth from a fundraiser. It is better 
not to make the buyer think about it. BTW, you'll probably make more on 
volume sales @ $1 than on margin @ $5.

3. Sell something consumable. Girl Scout cookies are the best example of this.
You buy the cookies, then you eat them, then you buy some more. You can 
sell the same product to the same people over and over, as long as they use up
the product between, or even during, the sales. 

4. Don't use a service if you can do it yourself. You want to sell candy? 
Case history: We purchased 3.03 oz concession packs (not available in stores)
of a popular candy (plain and peanut) from a local wholesaler at 53 cents a
box. The wholesaler gave us net 30 terms, ie. we pay the balance in 30 days.
We sold them at $1.00 a box (less than at a theater, the usual outlet).
We bought a handful of Scouting related sales prizes (prize based on sales).
Our overall profit was 45 cents on the dollar. The best numbers we got from a 
service was about 37 cents on the dollar. 

Any comments?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson 
Eagle Class of 1974
SM, Troop 565, Deltona, FL

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
Subject: Animals
Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:17:27 GMT

Ok.... I've seen quite a bit on this thread...

Put me down for a whip-poor-will. If I'm going to come back, I at least want to 
get back at all the people who've kept me awake!

***************************************************************************
* Dennis J. Wilkinson, II                * BITNET:    PNSF01DW@UMASSD     *
* Senior Macintosh Programmer            * Internet:  pnsf01dw@umassd.edu *
* Design/CS Project                      *                                *
* University of Mass. - Dartmouth        * (508)999-8896                  *
***************************************************************************
*    Insert disclaimer whereever -  they *are* MY opinions, after all!!   *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Keywords: Cub usa policy faith religion bsa
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:47:42 GMT

anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:

>No, I meant valid, ie, they are just as valid as anyone elses' beliefs,

Thanks for that clarification.

>I am very tolerant until others try to take away my rights.  When
>that occurs, you have broken the law, literally, as in the US
>Constitution,
[...]

The Constitution doesn't have much to do with it. As interpreted by
the Supreme Court, it says that public schools can not exclude
atheists or Zoroastrians. It does not say that the BSA can't exclude
atheists (and they do) or Zoroastrians (which they don't). In fact the
Constitutions guarantee of freedom of association means that the
government must leave the BSA's membership policy alone.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)
Subject: Pointer to camping newsgroup?
Originator: jcj@sunl18
Organization: Huh?
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:39:53 GMT

I apologize for posting to this group but I figured you folks would 
probably a good source... Is there a nesgroup devoted to backpacking/camping?
Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 23:33:33 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct5.174415.23615@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.052605.6685@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>>As a Christian,
>>>I would find it extremely difficult to award someone for any work done to 
>>>further beliefs that discredit Jesus as Lord and Savior.
>>Before I answer the question itself, I feel I need to address the tone of
>>Mr. Stevens' posting.  I consider it blatantly anti-Semitic, anti-Islam,
>>anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu, and anti-any and every other religion that
>>Scouts worldwide observe and are encouraged to observe.
>
>Why is it bigoted to be anti-all-of-those, but fine if it's anti-atheist?
 
ANd anti-lesbigay?????

>--
>"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
>the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
>disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler
>
>Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
>     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)

Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88

From: Wayne.Hessel@ (Wayne Hessel)
Sender: UUCP@p0.f209.n221.z1.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: "What would YOU have done?"
Date: 01 Oct 92  14:33:00 EST

Hi John my name is Wayne Hessel I am the Troop Scouter in my Troop here 
in Kitchener, Ontario,  Can. I response to your question the first 
thing I have to ask is what do the rest of the boys think???????
In Canada we have what is called the Court of Honour which is made up 
of the patrol leaders and sometimes the assistant patrol leaders  with 
this kind of a problem I would ask the Court of Honour to try and deal 
with it first. I think you would find that they would be able to come 
up with a solution....The way I was taught on my part 2 was that the 
program is for the boys and should be run by the boys where possible..
Otherwise I will think of this problem some more and if I come up with 
something else I will let you know.
Yours in Scouting
Wayne Hessel
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: OA
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:23:59 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 20477@wuecl.wustl.edu, gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon) writes:
>   In the case of my election, my ASM hinted strongly that the scouts should
>vote for his friend.
>
>   In the case of the election, I ran, the SM of the troop came right out
>and said that people should vote for him.

I wonder if the adults in this case are OA members. If they are then they 
should know that OA is a boy run program. Adults are to serve as advisors and
to provide services tha the boys cannot.

In article 10265@col.hp.com, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
>Leave immediately.  Do not distribute ballots, do not conduct the election.
>Report the events to the Elections Chairman and the Executive Committee.

And to the adult advisors.

.. stuff omitted ...

>OA election team members need to be trained.  These issues need to be addressed
>so that the election team members can know what to do in these situations
>and can act decisively and confidently.

Training should not end with the election team. Scoutmasters also need 
to be informed about their rights and responsibilities regarding the OA.

What can be done to prevent this problem?

1. Train the adult leaders. This is best done by Chapter advisors at 
   Roundtable.

2. Have an adult advisor (maybe two for two deep leadership) attend the 
   election. These adults are better equipt to deal with the troop adults.

3. Explain the procedure to the adult leader in charge at the meeting
   before you start (perhaps while you are setting up the paper work).

4. Establish a lodge policy that any interference in the election 
   process voids the troop`s election for that year. Make sure that this
   policy is widely known and then enforce it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 19:30:41 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct6.181536.8366@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
>>While one persons' religion may state that they are the only, the one
>>true way,
>I agree.
>>for them to be scouts they must also learn to respect other religions,
>I agree.
>>an[d] realize that they may indeed be wrong, or correct,
>I disagree.
>>but that each individual may choose his/her own religious beliefs.
>I agree.
>I don't think that respect of another's religious beliefs requires a
>belief that he or she might be right. All it requires is a belief that
>everyone should be free to believe what they wish.
 I'm not saying that they are wrong or correct but that they may be 
*if* their religion says they are the only,etc...My reason for this, is 
that how can a person state that their religion is the only one, and then
respect another religion, if their own religion says they can't?  
I don't see how that's possible.  The possiblity must be there, 
otherwise all others are inferior!? No? >

Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout '87
blacklisted '88


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scouts(was Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:00:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.150452.21647@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.134012.15590@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:
> >If a boy earns his God and Me emblem (Protastant) and knot, can he continue
> >to wear the knot when he goes into boy scouts?
> >
> >I'd assume so, since it is NOT a Cub Scout award, and thus would not
> >violate the fact that the only patch that can be carried forward is the
> >Arrow of Light.
> >
> >But I'd like to find out for sure.
> 
> There is a "knot" patch that's sewn above one of the pockets (and unless
> I see my son's uniform, I won't know which one) that signifies that a
It's the left pocket.
> religious award was earned.  I believe the knot signifies one award, and
> if a boy has two (like the Cub Scout and Boy Scout award), he' supposed
> to wear two of the pin-on stars on either side of the patch.
> -- 
> Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
> UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
> Summit, NJ
> smk@usl.com

From the rest of the post, I assume that its ok to wear the knot if
only the Cub Scout version of the religious award was earned (at least
for protastants there are about 3 sets of requirements that are age/grade
dependant).

Marc
From: kai@kaijen.ka.sub.org (Kai Jendrian)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Description of Scouting in Germany?
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 00:40:09 GMT
Organization: Me? Organized?

Dear Scouts,

today I have read a description of scouting in Denmark. I wonder
if such a description exists about scouing in Germany?
If there is none, is are you interested in it?
Although one can write one ( or more ) book on scouting
in Germany, I then will try to give a short description of
those organizations I know. (There are about 40 in Germany)

Gut Pfad

    Kai.
---
Kai Jendrian, W-7500 Karlsruhe, Germany, +49-721-685824
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Importance of the "SCOUT PROMISE"
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 12:42:28 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

kai@kaijen.ka.sub.org (Kai Jendrian) writes:

> Hi,
>
> I am a leader in one of the German Scout Organizations (there are about 40)
> called DPSG (Deutsche Pfadfinderschaft St. Georg).
> Our organization is to my opinion left wing orientated. A few years ago
> officially the SCOUT LAW and SCOUT PROMISE became abolished.
> I don't regard this as a good idea. What I wanna know is: What do you
> personally think about the SCOUT LAW and SCOUT PROMISE and how is it
> handled in your organization?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Gut Pfad Kai.
>
> ---
> Kai Jendrian, W-7500 Karlsruhe, Germany, +49-721-685824

Did they replace them with anything? What are they using for guidance?


* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
From: deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: APO-L  How do I get on?
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:20:28 GMT
Organization: Galaxy Information System (GIS) 1:133/411 Atlanta, Ga

Dateline Mon, 21/Sep92 16:51.
In , william a dowling of dowling@hubcap.clemson.edu  wrote to All at 1:133/411,

 wad> Can someone tell me how to get on APO-L, the Alpha Phi Omega 
 wad> mailing list? Thanks

     Subscribe to APO-L at listserv@vm.cc.purdue.edu

          David Deitch, (GIS) Atlanta



--  
----------------------------------------------------------
               __
              /  \             User: David Deitch
             /|oo \            Via FidoNet node: 1:133/411
            (_|  /_)
             _`@/_ \    _     FidoNet <==> UUCP Gateway
            |     | \   \\    FidoNet Net 133, Atl96
            | (*) |  \_  ))
  ______    |__U__| /  \//     David Deitch, Administrator
 / FIDO \    _//|| _\   /     Galaxy Information System
(________)  (_/(_|(____/ (jm)   (GIS) Atlanta            

UUCP: gatech!warlord!gisatl!deitch
INTERNET: deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kathy@oracorp.com (Kathy S. Knight)
Subject: Names of Troop Leaders
Keywords: $.02
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 19:13:08 GMT


I am a Service Unit Manager in Central New York.  Last year,
our Unit merged with two other communities, significantly
increasing our size and making for some unusual tradition
clashes.

I was surprised at one of our first meetings when several
of the leaders from one of the communities were absolutely
scandalized that our girls called their leaders by their
first names.  They believed that it smacked of severe
disrespect, etc. and so on.  I came away doing some
deep meditation over the issue, but really didn't come up
with any solid conclusions.

They like to use the more formal Mrs, Ms. Miss or Mr. while we are
very comfortable using given names (they really had a problem when
they found out that the entire girl population and a large portion of
the parents call me by my `camp' name - which makes for interesting
conversation when you get hailed from the other end of a large
shopping mall :).  I don't believe that this informality makes them
disrespect us or tarnishes our authority image, nor do I think that
any one form of address is better or more correct; it's what is most
comfortable for everyone concerned.  I do believe, however, that
whatever mode of address is used,  should be used by everyone
in the community or it could cause a lot of unnecessary problems.



Kathy Knight
Fellow Scout
Caywasco Unit
kathy@oracorp.com


PS  I am the leader of a newly bridged Cadette troop and would
welcome any ideas for activities and fund raisers.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: cs911275@ariel.yorku.ca (MICHAEL A MACDONALD)
Subject: Who (and which) Rover crews will be attending this Moot?
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 04:57:03 GMT


  I am wondering, who and/or which rover crews will be attending the
'Halloween Moot' In Burford, Ontario, Canada. On the weekend of Oct 16-19.
If you or someone you know is planning on attending this Moot, please let
me know. I'd be interested in saying 'Hi' to you at the moot. :)


-- Michael A. MacDonald
-- Mate for the 3rd NewtonBrook Rover Crew
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scou
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:16:05 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 15590@porthos.cc.bellcore.com, mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:
>If a boy earns his God and Me emblem (Protastant) and knot, can he continue
>to wear the knot when he goes into boy scouts?
>
>I'd assume so, since it is NOT a Cub Scout award, and thus would not
>violate the fact that the only patch that can be carried forward is the
>Arrow of Light.
>
>But I'd like to find out for sure.
>
>Marc
>

Yes, according to the latest Insignia Control Guide, which each unit 
should own, the religious award knot earned as a Cub can be worn on 
Boy Scout and adult uniforms. There is a Cub Scout fixture that must be
added when the boy goes to a troop. If he also earns the religious award 
in Boy Scouts, he adds the fixture for Boy Scouts. I don't have my book 
here so I can't give you a stock number.

You are right. It is not a Scouting achievement or advancement award. The
religious award knot is a recognition item.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:02:28 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ

In article <BvpFnC.40A@umassd.edu>, pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson) writes:
> 
> I've got to give some credit to the particpants in this thread;
> with only an occasional exception, it hasn't degenerated into
> futile flaming (as a few others which I'm sure I have no need
> to mention). Time for my $0.02.
> 
> I decided to check out my good ol' (but not as good as the last
> edition good ol') Scoutmaster's Handbook to see what it had to
> say regarding the Religious Medals program. Some highlights -
> 
> "... Scouting is, of course, a nonsectarian movement. It is 
> identified with no particular faith, encourages no particular
> affiliation, nor assumes functions of religious bodies. Hence
> it is important that you understand that the religious 
> emblems program ... IS A PROGRAM OF RELIGIOUS BODIES AND NOT
> OF SCOUTING..." (my emphasis)
> 
> "It is appropriate for you to encourage Scouts who are
> interested to work for and earn the religious emblem for
> their particular faith. There is no connection between 
> religious emblems and the advancement program..."
> 
> (fr. Scoutmaster's Handbook, 1991 printing, p 222-223)
> 
> The first statement is quite self-explanatory, I would think.
> I myself might ask the question as to whether these awards
> can be presented to a non-Scout in any respective religion...

The material for the Protastant awards is published by an association
of Protastant groups, and is intended to be used for BSA, GSUSA,
4-H, and I believe there may be other groups as well.  As a courtesy,
the material may be purchased in (BSA) Scout Shops, and can be ordered
from National Supply.   It can also be ordered directly from the
association in St. Louis.  In fact, I believe that the Religious
emblems (medals) have to be ordered through St. Louis, only the
knots are available in the Scout Shop.

> 
> As for the second statement: that reads to me that it is
> APPROPRIATE, not MANDATORY. It would seem to me that if 
> Scouting is really tolerant of any set of religious beliefs
> (the null set not being taken into consideration, but let's 
> not get into that again,please), then it has to respect the
> Scout leader whose "valid" religious beliefs would preclude
> him/her from promoting another faith. Of course, it
> also seems to me that it would be rather silly not  to 
> at least recognize that the boy has gone out and accomplished
> something on his own...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Dennis J. Wilkinson, II  (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
> University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project
> 
> The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!

Marc
From: montgojw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (II Jerry Montgomery)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Order of the Arrow
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:39:04 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <pkteagarden.33@bobcat.lmc.edu> pkteagarden@bobcat.lmc.edu  
(Phil Teagarden) writes:
> 
> Scouting in America has degenerated into somethning of a JOKE.  I can 
> truthfully say that I am (almost) ashame of admitting to being an Eagle 
> Scout and a member of the OA.  American Indians have no right to be  
upset 
> about painting the body!  Since when do Indians (they're not Native 
> Americans) have a cornor on paint?  Symbolism? Etc...

It's not the paint, and if we were not trying to represent their culture,  
the symbols would not matter either.  However, because we ARE trying to  
re-create their culture, we had damn well respect their rights as a race  
and as a people.  I'm sure that if a non-Jewish national organization  
tried to re-create the Jewish ceremonies and used poor, cheap, inaccurate  
symbols, they would be stopped immediately.  The Indianas and their  
culture deserve just as much respect as anyone else.  And if their not  
Native Americans, then WHO is?  They were here before the white man, and  
they are the descendents of the nomadic caveman who wandered into this  
area.  Just because they did not call it America and claim some ownership  
over the land does not mean that they are not native to the area.   
Scouting may be a joke to the majority of the teenagers in America, but to  
most mature, intelligent adults scouting is an organization that America  
can be proud of.  And as for me, I am proud of being an Eagle Scout.  It  
is the first thing on my resumee in my list of achievments.


************************************************************************** 
Jerry W. Montgomery II
Chemical Engineering Major; Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Eagle Scout & Vigil Honor member of Wulakamike Lodge 21 WWW
ASM Troop 286; Indianapolis, Indiana
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.scouting