From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Performas, LCII's and questions!
Keywords: Performa, LCII, fpu, orphan-computer
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:32:40 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

daver@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu (David Ray) writes:

>In article <1992Oct5.205928.28667@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@Dartmouth.Edu writes:
>>    Well, the computer is an LCII, so everything that the LCII has or
>>doesn't have the P400 has/doesn't have. 

>Same motherboard?

    That is what I have read. The P200 and the P400 are identical to the
Classic II and the LCII.

>>What are you talking about in respect to 32-bit clean? The LCII
>>has always been a 32-bit clean machine.

>I think he is referring to the fact that in 32 bit mode, the LCII runs at
>1/2 the clock speed to handle 32 bit data on the 16 bit bus. It will
>run 32-bit mode (this is referred to as "32-bit clean") but it does so at
>1/2 the speed.
>Is this the same on the Performa?

    I hadn't heard this before, so I have no idea if it is the same with
the P400, but the motherboards are the same, and the P400 still has the
16bit bus.

>To see a list of "gotchas" read the latest "vaporware" article telling
>Apple's (rumored) long-term plans for their computers in the next 2 years.
>Early next year it is expected that Apple will have an LC-like computer
>with 32 bit bus, 25 MHz 60030, which will replace the current LCII, SI and CI.
>A year later, a computer that will be 30-60 times faster than the LCII.

    Yeah. I've read the Vaporware column for October. What makes any of
this a "gotcha"? Also your explanation doesn't seem to go along with
what the original poster was talking about in respect to the Performas
and sharing data/applications.
    Also the IIsi and the IIci are going to be replaced by machines
other than the new 25mHz LC. The IIsi is supposed to be replaced by the
IIvx and the IIci by either the new 20mHz or 25mHz '040 that will be
coming out in January in the same box as the IIvx and the P600. This was
also in the Vaporware column.

>I don't think you can escape the "gotcha" mentality of Apple.I own an LCII
>and I'm loving it- and hating it. My advice is, buy a computer whan you know
>you are going to get a lot of use out of it. No matter when you buy one, 
>Apple will come out with better computers just months later and make you think
>that you own a piece of crap. They want you (the consumer) to buy a new
>Mac every 8 months. Don't sweat it, just get a lot of use out of it.

    I really don't think this is a "gotcha" mentality. Although I'm sure
that Apple would love to have you buy a new computer every 8 months, I
think they expect people to get more than 8 months use out of their
computers.

>>    If you would tell me what an "orphan" Mac is, I might understand
>>what you are asking.
>I think he's referring to discontinued models. Apple generally stops
>providing support for discontinued models regardless of when they were
>purchased. This is an important issue because they drop their
>products so fast sometimes -- less than a year for the Powerbook 100 --
>they could stop providing support even when you are still figuring out how
>the thing works.

    Apple has not stopped providing support for the SE, or the IIcx or
the original II, and they certainly still support those models that have
just recently been taken off the price list in the last year.

>The answer is, almost all of them. 

    No, the answer - assuming the definition of "orphan" that you are
using is correct - is we don't know. No one has any idea how long Apple
will be selling the current Performas, so we don't know when they
will be dropped, or if Apple will stop supporting them once said drop
has occured.

>The things that I don't like are 1)Apple discontinuing support for their
>older products and 2)their pricing strategy. Somebody with an SE from 3 years
>ago ought to be able to get the same service and support as somebody with
>an LCII.

    Who says they don't get the same support. They certainly get the
same service and support here at Dartmouth. Granted that the support is
mostly in-house, but the service people are licensed Apple Techs and
they still provide service on all of the Macs produced since the Plus,
and probably on some of the earlier ones too, but I don't know about
those.

>And they should be able to get the same support for 6.0.5 as someone
>with 7.01 (1.1.1).

    Again, they do get the same support here. Of course your mileage may
vary depending on who you choose to go to for support. Apple has said, I
believe, that they are no longer suporting systems earlier than 7.0, and
that kind of makes sense to me, but that doesn't mean you have to stop
using it.

>Also, somebody who paid market price for the LCII in March 92 deserves
>some respect from Apple and not see then drop the price by 40% in 6
>months.

    Yeah, well, that's just the way things go, especially in the
computer market. And how can you claim that Apple doesn't respect the
buyers from March 92? Do you expect Apple to give them a refund or
something? That isn't the way business works, certainly not in the
retail market in any event. You buy something today, and it costs less
tomorrow. And if you had waitied and bought it tomorrow, it would have
cost less next week, or a new and improved version would have been
introduced making yours not as good as it was when you bought it. That
it the way things work, no matter how long you wait for the Latest And
Greatest(tm) something better, or lower priced, or both is always right
around the corner.

>Apple should offer a better "upgrade" option for loyal customers.

    This I completely agree with.

--
-Hades (Brian V. Hughes) 
   "You know Television has gone to hell when, with every commercial,
	 you find yourself hoping to see the Energizer Bunny."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware