HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo)
Subject: Re: 15 year vs. 30 year loans
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:47:29 GMT

bruceh@sgi.com (Bruce R. Holloway) writes:

|In article <1992Aug26.155651.27836@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
|>
|>Run that by me again.  $120.06 a month for 30 years can become
|>$720,297.88.  Granted I used simple interest instead of compounding,
|>but I don't get your figures.  Want to break it down?

|In general, the future value of an income stream invested at a constant
|rate of interest is

|	    m          n
|	q = - * [ (1+r)  - 1 ]
|	    r
|where
|	m = the regular payment,
|	r = the rate of interest (per payment period),
|	n = the number of payments.

|For m = $120.06, r = .15/12, and n = 30*12, q = $831208.95.

One problem.  This assumes that the 15% investment is of the passbook variety;
i.e. can be added to in small increments once per month, with an effective
annual yield slightly higher than the stated simple yield.

If the *actual* rate of return on an investment is 15% per year, the monthly
rate of interest is (1.15^^(1/12))-1.  The above formula turns a 15% investment
into one with an effective annual yield of 16.08%.  This is valid if the
investment is compounded monthly and may be added to in small increments;
however, many high rate of return investments are not structured like this.

A caveat to home buyers: this type of number juggling is precisely what banks
do when they offer a loan.  A loan which is offered at 8% may or may not also
have a side note stating that the effective annual percentage rate is 8.3%.
Let the buyer beware. :-)
--
Tony Nardo,		   INET: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu, trn@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
 Johns Hopkins Univ./APL   UUCP: {backbone!}mimsy!aplcomm!trn
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: chill@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (charles.f.hill)
Subject: Rental Property
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:27:28 GMT
Keywords: rent investment property


My wife and I own a seasonal cabin on a lake in Northern Wisconsin.  
We like the area and would like to plan to move there in let's say 
around five years.  Our current property is not really suitable as a
full time home.  There is a small house that is for sale that is
about six lots from ours and what I have been thinking about is the
possibility of purchasing it and using it as a rental property for
the next few years.  We would plan to rent it on primarily a weekly
basis during the summer season - maybe for weekends too - whatever
would work out best. I have looked at the numbers and if I can get
about $3,000 in rental income per year our investment would net
around a 6% rate of return.  Sure I could do better on the market
but I guess I would have to sacrifice something to 'reserve' this
property for our future.

Having no experience in rental properties (except for being a
renter myself several years ago) I would like some help and comments
on the questions and areas represented below as well
as similar areas.

	How could I advertize this property as being available for
	rent.

	Would I have to expect any problems like damage and/or not
	getting paid.

	Can I expect the renters to clean up for the next set of
	people or would I have to hire someone to do this.
	
Any and all comments will be appreciated.

				Thanks - Chuck Hill
				708-979-2648
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Subject: Re: Is there going to be a home purchase tax credit or what!!!!!
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:36:02 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep3.133714.2839@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, slansky_d@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
|> 
|> >
|> >> I am going to buy a house from someone I know - I have been
|> >>debating when to buy the house since this $5,000 tax credit
|> >>was announced in Feb 92. Now its September and time is running
|> >>out, I still have to apply for the mortgage, The way I see it
|> >>I have one of two choices:
|> 
|> CAUTION:  The Bush proposal was for a tax credit ONLY for the sales of new
|> homes.  Sales of existing homes would not be credited.  The economic proposal
|> failed to pass congress and....
|> 
|> >I doubt such legislation can pass before the election in November.
|> >The Democrats have Bush on the run and they won't give him
|> >anything that may help him win in Nov.  Besides, many of them
|> >are out campaigning and don't have time to worry about their
|> >jobs.
|> >
|> 
|> I agree.
|> 
|> Doug.
|> 

Actually, a bill is in progress with a good chance of passing....  I posted
part of it in misc.taxes.


-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: escue@snoopy2.rtsg.mot.com (Marilyn R. Escue)
Subject: HOUSE FOR SALE TO INVESTOR - BLOOMINGDALE, IL
Keywords: house investor
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: misc
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:05:22 GMT

House for sale to investor only in Bloomingdale, IL.  Current owners want
to sell and rent same house back while building a new house for one to two
years.  (Too many of our friends building houses had their backs against
the wall trying to sell and build and get the timing to work out right.)

Features:

- Spacious living room and dining room "L" combination
- 4 bedrooms (Master is 15.8' X 13')
- Large remodeled kitchen with eating area and pantry
- Family room with fireplace and built-in bookcases
- 2 1/2 bathrooms - all remodeled
- Spacious ceramic tiled foyer
- Large laundry room with washtub
- Central air conditioning - new
- Fenced back yard with large patio
- Brick and aluminum split level
- Excellent floor plan
- Excellent neighborhood and great school district
- Only minutes from Stratford Square Mall, Indian Lakes Resort, and
  Bloomingdale Old Town

Asking $167,500.

Please call Marilyn at (708) 632-4535.


Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Subject: Re: Rental Property
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 16:26:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Keywords: rent investment property

In article <1992Sep1.142728.25224@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> chill@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (charles.f.hill) writes:
>
>My wife and I own a seasonal cabin on a lake in Northern Wisconsin.  
>possibility of purchasing it and using it as a rental property for
>the next few years.  We would plan to rent it on primarily a weekly
>basis during the summer season - maybe for weekends too - whatever
>	How could I advertize this property as being available for
>	rent.
                Word of mouth to friends of friends is good.>
>	Would I have to expect any problems like damage and/or not
>	getting paid.
              YES>
>	Can I expect the renters to clean up for the next set of
>	people or would I have to hire someone to do this.
          Yes and Yes. (depends on the renter)

Some friends of ours do this with a cabin in Southern Colorado.  I would
say their experience has been largely positive.  They had some flyers 
printed up and distributed them to friends and people they work with.  They
also look for people who belong to outdoors groups (cross country skiers,
horse people etc.) and make presentations to them.  After the first summer
most of the business is referals.  

I am also a landlord and recognize that this sounds utopian compared to 
apartment rentals.  However, I think that people renting for a vacation
who have some kind of connection, however tenuous, are a more responsible
client.  If you can afford the place without counting on the rental 
income for at least a couple of years you have time to see what works
and develop procedures.  If your HAVE to make $ from day one, I suspect you
will have problems.
Paul
From: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: 15 year vs. 30 year loans
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:00:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:

>In article <dbinford.714405881@neptune> dbinford@convex.com (David Binford) writes:
>>>Did I miss anything?
>>
>>I think so.  If I understand what you are comparing :
>>
>>1. 50,000 note @ 8% for yrs 0-15, THEN invest same payment @ 15% for yrs 15-30
>>			VS
>>2. 50,000 note @ 8% for yrs 0-30, and invest the between the 15 year note and
>>   the 30 year note (432.12-312.75=120.06) @ 15% for yrs 0-30
>>
>>One problem is you are investing without compounding the interest. i.e.
>>you are only paying yourself interest on the investment payments, not the
>>investment itself.  If you run the same numbers with compounding interest
>>here is what I get for the investment lines of your example
>>
>>> + 84,014.48 savings ($432.81 x 12 x 15 at 15%)
>>invest (432.81*12) at 15% compounded annually for 15 years = 215,116.61
>>
>>>+ 46,621.11 savings ($120.06 x 12 x 30 at 15%)
>>invest (120.06*12) at 15% compounded annually for 30 years = 720,297.88
>>
>>

>Run that by me again.  $120.06 a month for 30 years can become
>$720,297.88.  Granted I used simple interest instead of compounding,
			      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^		 ^^^^^^^^^^^
>but I don't get your figures.  Want to break it down?

Wow, no wonder the numbers diverge by so much!  Somewhat like saying, "I used
charcoal lighter fluid instead of gasoline in my lawnmower -- why isn't it
going as fast?" :-)

Seriously, I'll leave the computation to you, but in a 15% tax-free investment
the numbers you should be adding are:
	120.06 * 12 * (1.15^^29) +
	120.06 * 12 * (1.15^^28) +
	120.06 * 12 * (1.15^^27) +
	... +
	120.06 * 12 * (1.15^^0)

	= ( 120.06 * 12 ) * ( 1 + 1.15^^1 + 1.15^^2 + ... + 1.15^^29 )
	= ( 120.06 * 12 ) * ( ( 1 - 1.15^^30 ) / ( 1 - 1.15 ) )

which is a mere $626,346.03.

This assumes that investment may only be made at the end of the year.  If the
investment may be made monthly, it gets even worse:
	120.06 * ((1 + (.15^^(1/12)))^^359) +
	120.06 * ((1 + (.15^^(1/12)))^^358) +
	... +
	120.06 * ((1 + (.15^^(1/12)))^^0)

which yields $668,321.03.

BTW, you get $720,297.88 by cheating. :-)  You assume that the person who is
saving money on house payments can put a whole year's worth of savings into an
investment up front.  ($626,346.03 * 1.15 ~= $720,297.88)

If you use simple interest, you're *not* using the correct formula.  It's
the interest on the interest over 30 years that sends this balance soaring --
well, that, and not taking taxes out each year, and using an artificially high
rate of risk-free return.
--
Tony Nardo,		   INET: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu, trn@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
 Johns Hopkins Univ./APL   UUCP: {backbone!}mimsy!aplcomm!trn
From: jxt@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jawahar Tembulkar)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: *** House For Sale in Rancho Penasquitos, San Diego ***
Keywords: two bedroom, family room, two and a half baths.  Immaculate
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:41:30 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Computervision, San Diego, CA


The home itself :
-----------------

    * 1366 sq. ft. Broadmoor plan nestled in coveted 
      Feather Ridge development.

    * Immaculate two story with vaulted ceilings

    * Two bedrooms and two baths upstairs, and family 
      room and half bath downstairs

    * Master suite with great mountain view, mirrored
      dual wardrobes, and roman tile bath

    * Kitchen with gas stove, built in microwave, and
      dishwasher

    * Wooden mini blinds, drapes, and closet shelving

    * Backyard has two redwood decks, freshly painted
      fence, as well as pine, tangerine, and roses.

    * Extra wide two car garage with shelves and cabinet.

    * Sprinkler system installed.


Location :
----------

* Part of highly regarded Poway school district.

* Very nice neighbourhood, close to :

	- schools

	- fire and police stations

	- two shopping centers

	- new post office and public library

	- new park to be constructed

* Easy freeway access ( I-15 and Route 56 )


*****************


Offered at $167,000.00.  If interested, please contact our 
agent - Sharif Harris @ (619) 484-1189.

If you cannot reach him, please send me email, or call me 
@ (619) 538-0762.

Thank you.


Jawa Tembulkar



		-- 
* UUCP : uunet!calmasd!jxt	voice : (619) 587-3078	*
From: okuyama@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Darin Okuyama YR)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 114
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:54:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035

asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
>Written in article <1992Aug26.203939.20926@adobe.com>
> by hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi):
>: Real Estate News Summary, Part 114, July 1992
>:
>: 888. Baby Boomers whose consumerism powered the economy of the '70s and '80s
>:    are saving for their retirements and are no longer buying the houses, cars
>:    and appliances that supported hundreds of thousands of small businesses.
>:    Without a boost from small business, the economy may be doomed to steady
>:    but slow growth for 20 years.  [Chicago Tribune]
>I wonder if they've considered the "baby boomlet."  Ie, the children of
>the baby boomers.  Someone born at the beginning of the baby boom, say
>around 1945, should have kids old enough to buy their first or second
>house by now.
>The "baby boomlet" should be just beginning to pick up steam.  It will
>necessarily be longer and lower amplitude than the baby boom, but I
>believe it will be noticeable.

Maybe "they" considered that, and the following:

  (1) family sizes today versus 50 years ago
  (2) family formation rate is lower today

If you factor these in, I shudder to think of how small the impact
of the "baby boomlet" might be.

Darin Okuyama
NASA Ames Research Center
From: bd670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Russell I. Dyreng)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: "Passivity" of Income/Loss (was Re: Need help with rental depreciation)
Date: 2 Sep 1992 21:57:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
>Written in article <1992Aug28.163444.14498@berlioz.nsc.com>
>by worden@bouncer.nsc.com (Dennis Worden):
>
>: Between 100K and 150K there is a
>: phaseout of deductibility for "passive losses" which do 
>: apply to rental property.
>
>I may be mistaken, but I've heard there are methods whereby the 
>"passive" can be redefined into "active," thereby fully 
>restoring all deductability.
>
>Things such as handling ALL the paperwork and management 
>yourself, vs.hiring a property management company.
>
>Anyone know for certain?
>
>--
>The Chipmunk.

The IRS defines passive as essentially to mean that you 
contribute nothing but money to the operation.  This passive rule
usually deals with things like real estate limited partnerships.

When you hire a property manager yourself to manage your property
you are still making all of the decisions and calling the shots.
This makes you an active participant for tax purposes.

Short and simple.

Russ
bd670@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: jyl@burgess.eng.sun.com (Jacob Levy)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Buy-Rent-Hold as an investment?
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:32:43
Organization: State Retirement Home for Retarded Slugs
Reply-To: jyl@toss.eng.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: burgess

Hi

I am in the bay area and it seems that locally the numbers do not work out
to allow this form of investment. The numbers:

Average Single Family Home:		$250000 (?)
Payment on $250000 Mortgage @ 8%:	$1834.5 per month
Average Rent on Single Family Home:	$1300 per month

These numbers are my own estimates. If anything, $250K is pretty low, I
guess, and $1300 rent per month somewhat high. What this means is that you
cant even make the payment of the mortgate out of the rent, let alone real
estate taxes, costs, ...

Are these numbers especially bad because of high housing costs in the Bay
Area? Is your area better? I can't see how this could be a good business.
Am I missing something absolutely basic and obvious, or is my analysis
right?

Thanks for any help, --JYL
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu (Tony Nardo)
Subject: Re: 15 year vs. 30 year loans
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:34:34 GMT

bruceh@sgi.com (Bruce R. Holloway) writes:

In misc.invest.real-estate you write:

|In article <1992Aug26.155651.27836@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
|>
|>Run that by me again.  $120.06 a month for 30 years can become
|>$720,297.88.  Granted I used simple interest instead of compounding,
|>but I don't get your figures.  Want to break it down?

|In general, the future value of an income stream invested at a constant
|rate of interest is

|	    m          n
|	q = - * [ (1+r)  - 1 ]
|	    r
|where
|	m = the regular payment,
|	r = the rate of interest (per payment period),
|	n = the number of payments.

|For m = $120.06, r = .15/12, and n = 30*12, q = $831208.95.

One problem.  If the *actual* rate of return on an investment is 15% per year,
the monthly rate of interest is (1.15^^(1/12))-1.  The above formula turns a
15% investment into one with an effective annual yield of 16.08%.  Be careful
in dealing with effective rate of return versus a simple (i.e. non-compounded
over the course of one year) rate of return.

A caveat to home buyers: this type of number juggling is precisely what banks
do when they offer a loan.  A loan which is offered at 8% may or may not also
have a side note stating that the effective annual percentage rate is 8.3%.
Let the buyer beware. :-)
--
Tony Nardo,		   INET: trn@warper.jhuapl.edu, trn@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
 Johns Hopkins Univ./APL   UUCP: {backbone!}mimsy!aplcomm!trn
From: di@anasaz (Diane Castellanos)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Interest rates
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:19:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA

On a morning news show the other day, it was mentioned that some
mortgage companies will consider renegotiating interest rates on home loans.

Has anyone heard of this?  How does it work?

Thanks,

Diane Castellanos

-- 
Diane Castellanos    
Anasazi, Inc - Phoenix
di@anasazi.com
"My only friend's a buck - the more bucks ya got, the more friends ya got"
Fred Flintstone
From: tki@atk.tpo.fi (Tuukka Kirveskoski)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Real-estate prices & U.S. economy
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:27:51 GMT
Organization: Tampere Telephone Co, Tampere Finland

I've been thinking a lot of investing my money in a condo or real-estate
here in Finland. I have read a lot of articles describing the markets in
the U.S.A. which sound to be similar to ours here (depression in economy
, unemployment and high interest rates force prices down). The end of
real-estate skyrocketing was year '87 (?) in the States and '89 here in
Finland. I understand that the recovery time in economy is different in
different countries, but I still would be pleased to know some of your
forecasts how long does it take your real-estate markets going up again?
========================================================================
Tuukka Kirveskoski                                   I There's no TRY,     
Tampere TelCo, your way to better communications.    I there's only
Internet e-mail:  tki@atk.tpo.fi                     I      DO
                  tuukka.kirveskoski/o=tpo/@elisa.fi I      or
Elisa    e-mail:  Kirveskoski_Tuukka_TPO             I  NOT TO DO !
========================================================================
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Buying Undeveloped Land
Date: 4 Sep 1992 16:18:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 18115@mcnc.org, pickel@mcnc.org (Lisa C. Pickel) writes:
> Would those of you who have bought raw land recently mind relating
> your experiences?  What stipulations do you make in the offer (must
> perk for such-and-such size house.... what else?).  Did you have a
> builder and/or soil expert come out and take a look?
You could either stipulate good perc results as a contingency, or
limit your search to parcels that already have approved septic
designs. I certainly would have at least the former.

> 
> I've already researched the current proposed landfill sites and have
> a good idea which roads in the area are likely to become unbearable
> smog-producers within the next ten years.  What else would you look out
> for?
Perhaps check out the history of the land? Former dump? :-(
> 
> I'm looking at 7 - 10 acre parcels (preferably not in subdivisions) 
> somewhat outside the currently in-demand areas with a view towards 
> perhaps building a house or maybe just reselling it later.  Therefore, 
> this should be considered a long-term investment, in case I never build.

I wouldn't think of land as a long term investment, unless you really luck
out. Remember you'll be paying taxes, interest and insurance
while it sits there, doing nothing for you. 

John




Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Owner Occupied -vs- Rental Mortgage
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:14:44 GMT


Does anyone understand how a mortgage company might react if we wanted to
change the use of a house we might buy from a 2nd residence status 
(owner occupied) to a rental?  (We are putting 20% down.)

What happens if we go ahead and buy the property as a 2nd residence and
then rent it out?  Will they find out through insurance?  Will they
simply raise my interest rate?  Will they care?  

Do they care because rental property depreciates faster?  They already
know we can make the payment because we're buying as a 2nd residence.

Any other comments?
   
 Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall

        "Giving power and money to the government is like giving 
         whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."  

		- P.J. O'Rourke, former gulf war correspondant, summing
		up what he learned during two years of research on how
		our government functions.
From: jyl@burgess.eng.sun.com (Jacob Levy)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Re: RTC's Address
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:53:37
Organization: State Retirement Home for Retarded Slugs
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: jyl@toss.eng.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: burgess
In-reply-to: mmpjh@angelo.amd.com's message of 1 Sep 92 17:47:24 GMT

This seems to be a FAQ, so here goes:

The number to call is 1-800-RTC-3006. They're very nice but talk a little
too fast for my taste. You MUST be calling from a touch-phone. To get you
started they'll ask you some questions and make an investor entry in their
DB. Be prepared to give:

	- Your full name and mailing address
	- The type of properties of interest to you

You can then ask the person at the other end to perform a specific asset
search for you. They will do up to three searches per phone call. You
should give, for each search, the first three digits of the ZIP code for
the area in which you're interested, or you can give city name+state to
perform a narrower search. The person at the other end will tell you the
number of matches and ask you if you want to have the listings sent to you.
If you say yes and the total number of listings exceeds 150, you will be
asked to provide a credit card number to charge the printout to. If the
total number of listings you request is less than or equal to 150 you dont
pay a cent.

When you enter the investor DB, you automatically get a bunch of very clear
and interesting brochures sent to you by mail. These will provide (MUCH)
more information.

--JYL
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate