HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:44:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

>Know something?  In this part of the country, at least, some
>unspecified number of physicians charge insured patients more than
>private-pay patients for the same services.
It sometimes works the other way around.

Case (a) [ my dcotor ] 

   Private pay office visits are $60, but HMO Blue (of which he
   is a participant) reimburses at the rate of (I think) $48.xx (+ a $3
   co-pay from me).  They make this "take it or leave it offer"
   (with a condition that they not increase the patient copay) to 
   area physicians, and many accept this lower rate.  I don't know
   how he would react to an offer of cash payment at the HMO Blue
   rate from a private pay patient.

Case (b) [ many hospitals ]

   You go the the hospital and get a bill for $10K.  If it's private
   pay, that's the amount you fork over or get sued for.  It it's
   insured, the insurance company may have a discount reducing their
   charge to (f'rinstance) $8K.  Of course, if you have a 20% 
   co-pay, this is based on the $10K bill you see, not the reduced
   insurance bill (covertly increasing your co-pay from 10% to 25%).


Rob Boudrie
rboudrie@chpc.org
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: sasefj@junebug.unx.sas.com (Edie Jeffreys)
Subject: Re: ***POLICE INTIMIDATION ??
Originator: sasefj@junebug.unx.sas.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:48:11 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.



Call the city attorney's office and let them know what happened.


-- 
Edie Jeffreys            The fact is, no matter how closely I study it
SAS Institute, Inc.      No matter how I take it apart
SAS Circle, Cary, NC     No matter how i break it down
(919)677-8000 x6946      It remains consistent.  -- Belew
From: eugene@ksr.com (Eugene Yi-jen Pan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:57:45 EST
	<1992Nov11.213259.1158@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<1992Nov12.083330.7221@netcom.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Kendall Square Research, Waltham, MA
In-reply-to: strnlght@netcom.com's message of 12 Nov 92 03:33:30 EST

In article <1992Nov12.083330.7221@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

> Alan S. Mazer says that I shouldn't have gone into the Huntington Emergency
> Room for a sprained ankle. At the time I thought it was broken.
> 
> My complaint is the physician billing $300 for his service. I was separately
> billed another $300 by Huntington for the facilities, so that's not included.
> I was separately billed another couple of hundred bucks by the radiologist,
> so that's not included either.
> 
> My orthopedist charges $300 total for his service, X-ray, and his facilities
> all included, and he is considerably more experienced and renowned than
> the e.r. physician.
> 

I thought the point was then "why didn't you go to your orthopedist"?  If he
costs so little and is so great, so why did you go to the emergency room?  A
broken bone doesn't always need to be set right away.  I didn't get my hand
set for 4 days (2 days were due to set an appointment for the surgery).

Convenience is expensive.  People, everyone not just you, bitches and moans 
about doctor costs and hospital costs, but no one price shops.  No one looks for
a doctor except when they are injured or sick.  If people would spend some time
researching their doctors, maybe they wouldn't get reamed all the time.

If you went into a car showroom, took a car home, and told them to bill you, I
am sure you would be reamed on the price, too.  In most situations, people ask
for the price before buying, and I don't see why it should be any different for
medical care.
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:18840 misc.invest:13505
From: zchen@phys.ksu.edu (Zheng Chen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.invest
Subject: Re: FORD visa vs. DISCOVER
Date: 7 Nov 1992 21:26:04 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Manhattan KS, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kelvin.phys.ksu.edu


There has been some discussion about FORD VISA and DISCOVER for awhile.
When FORD pays the 1.5% rebate, do that incluse the balance itself?
If it does, you might make some mmoney out of it. The monthly 1.5% rebate
will translate into 19.6% annual rate, which is higher than the actual
rate they charge. I have a FORD MC card but never noticed this 1.5%
rebate.


Zheng Chen
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zheng Chen
zchen@phys.ksu.edu
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: The Baldridge award (was "AT&T Universal Card (tm? by AT&T)")
Keywords: AT&T UNIVERSAL CREDIT CARD VISA
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:45:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: amdahl.43n8035Yb8nC00
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz) writes:

}Personally, I'd question the ability of the customer trying to pay
}the bill, didn't they even look into the window to see if they
}could see the address?  

}The customer may also place the check between the form and the 
}window, so maybe we should require all checks be transparent.

}Really though, how hard is it to place the form into the envelope, then
}look at the envelope, just to make sure the address is visible?

My god, you missed the ENTIRE fucking point!  It is EXACTLY this type
of who-cares, blame-the-stupid-customer, point the finger ANYWHERE but 
at the real problem attitude that has sent U.S. businesses into the toilet.

Yes, I freely grant that this specific problem with the bills is a small
thing.  Yes, I grant that the customer COULD avoid any problem by checking
the address before sealing the envelope.  But why the hell SHOULD the
customer have to?  

The fact remains that many people at AT&T ROYALLY SCREWED UP!  A bad
mistake was made, whatever you can say about the problem having a
work-around.  And the proof that it was indeed a mistake is that they
changed it.

--James Preston
  
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: Big Brother Radio Shack
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:25:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.052623.10150@tamsun.tamu.edu> bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell) writes:
>
>Here's an interesting addition to the Radio Shack discussion.
>
>In Arlington, TX, a new store called "Incredible Universe" has just opened.
>Now to the relevant part:  to enter the building, you must present your
>"membership card".  The membership is free after revealing your name and
>address.  In other words, they require you to be on their mailing
>list.  You have to show your drivers license, so the old saw of making up
>a weird address won't cut it.

Interesting.  The other Incredible Universe store is just south of
Portland, OR and they did NOT ask me for a driver's license, so I gave
them a bogus name/address/phone and got a card.  Strange they have
different policies, but it could be due to different state laws, and
then again I might have been lucky.

BTW - Only thing "incredible" was their own opinion of the store.  Not
wonderful selection, no high-end stuff and not cheap prices.  Otherwise
it was OK...


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: How many copiers are there?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:01:03 GMT


In article <1992Nov5.205757.4046@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <1992Oct22.200445.1898@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> yuanj@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>>  Please help me with a question:  How many copiers are there in the U.S.A.?  
>>Your estimate if no reference is available?
>>
>>  My estimate is 200,000 units based on a one copier per 100 people assumption. 
>
>In the beginning there were two.
>
>But you know how it is with copiers.

BUZZZ!!  Wrong.  There was only one.  It makes copies and copies ...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: cline@cs.scarolina.edu (Ernest Cline)
Subject: Re: Big Brother Radio Shack
Reply-To: cline@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  8 Nov 92 03:37:55 GMT

richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:

|>
|>Now to the relevant part:  to enter the building, you must present your
|>"membership card".  The membership is free after revealing your name and
|>address.  In other words, they require you to be on their mailing
|>list.  You have to show your drivers license, so the old saw of making up
|>a weird address won't cut it.  I told the poor data entry person "Isn't this
|>just a clever way of forcing me to be on your mailing list?"  to which she
|>promptly handed me a list of "membership rules" which eventually stated that
|>a drivers license is required to establish identity and blah blah blah....
|>I reluctantly surrendered it because I was very curious to see what was 
|>inside the "Incredible Universe".  But I was impressed with the way they
|>covered themselves with rules and whatnot.  If I didn't want to reveal my
|>data, weeeell, you don't have to shop here.  And believe me, it's VERY 
|>tempting.
|>
|
|Yeahbut!  Not everyone has a driver's license.
|
While I cannot speak for other states, South Carolina does issue an
"identity card" from the Highway Department that people without a driver's
license can obtain. So in this state at least, that point is moot.
-- 
-- 
-- 
Ernest Cline			"Smock smock smock smock smock"
cline@cs.scarolina.edu			 -- Hobbes --
From: lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:17:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Organization: HP Response Center Lab
Newsgroups: misc.consumers

In misc.consumers, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:

> Pepsi products, too.  Do you sell competing products?

Amway distributors do not sell "competing" products (ie, Coke and Pepsi).  
However, Amway distributors do carry products from over 300 different vendors.

Including:

Coca-Cola
MCI
VISA
Firestone
Atlas Moving
Fleet purchasing power
 with: GM, Ford, Chrysler, and some imports
Magnavox
Casio
Yorx
Grolier

 this list goes on and on
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:26:55 EST
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Visa Prime Select variable rates

My Visa card company recently sent me the offer that I could change from my
current interest rate of 16.9% to a new "Prime Select variable Annual
Percentage Rate".  They say that the variable rate will always be 8.9%
above the prime rate.

In the midst of lots of gobbeldy-gook, they explain that this means that my
new current rate will be 14.9%.  I currently owe them about $1500, and have
been paying them off at $100 per month.  Is changing to the new variable rate
worth it?  Yes, I have a college degree, but trying to figure this sort of shit
out makes my head spin......
                                   Thanks.
From: bsplaine@mtmtl8.sr.hp.com (Bill Splaine)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Re: HELP!  How Can I Improve FM Radio Reception in Office Building? (LONG!)
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:36:48 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)

I hope the answers come publically to you.  I'd like to know as well.  The
DAK unit requires an antenna jack to work.  Sounds like an ordinary preamp and 
should work fine.  I have seen much noise about DAK in the postings but have
no personal experience.

I have live in an RF shadow and can't pick up FM worth a hoot.  My thought was
to find someone who knows how to add a CABLE connector to the back of my
CLOCKRADIO.  Then I just plug it in and...........

Bill
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.drugs
From: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Subject: Recomendation for an upright freezer
Originator: usenet@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:24:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu (Mike Richman)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house

We are looking for an extra freezer, an upright (non-chest) unit which
had automatic defrost.  Any suggestions for which brands to consider,
and which to avoid?  Features worth paying extra for?  Thanks.
-- 
Mike Richman                        !CIMMS/The University of Oklahoma
richman@reepicheep.gcn.uoknor.edu   !100 East Boyd, Room 1110
405-325-3460 (office) 325-7614 (fax)!Norman, OK  73019-0628  USA
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Britannica - their obnoxious salesmen
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 04:54:52 EST
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston) writes:

> Frankly, I don't see how they can sell any at that price in this day and
> age.  For not much more than that, you can get yourself an inexpensive
> computer, a CD-ROM drive, and an encyclopedia on CD-ROM.  Now you not 
> only have an encyclopedia, but you can play Pac-Man.

I have a CD-ROM encyclopedia and it is very nice, but the CD-ROM
encyclopedias I've seen are usually based on paper encyclopedia
like Groliers that aren't as extensive as Britannica and are
usually a lot cheaper. It is often good enough though. No encyclopedia
is good enough if you need extensive and detailed information on a
topic.

> If you already have
> a computer, you can buy a CD-ROM drive and the encyclopedia CD for less 
> than half the cost of the books.  And if you already have a computer and
> a CD-ROM drive . . .

It is actually sillier tham that. They way the drive bundles work it is
often cheaper to buy the encyclopdia with a drive than buying the
encyclopedia CD-ROM by itself.

For example, Insight sells the 1992 Toolworks Encyclopedia by itself for
$295. It sells a Talon TA-100 internal drive, headphones, the same
encyclopedia, Toolworks Reference Library and Game Pack II for $279.
You can also pick 5 other CD-ROMs from a list and buy all 5 for $99
when you buy a drive.

Now that the CD-I players are coming on to the market and they are
marketing high-end game machines with CD-ROM drives, I wonder if
they have or will soon have encyclopedia disks for them?

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: niebuhr@bnlux1.bnl.gov (david niebuhr)
Subject: Re: Financial records (how long to keep?)
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:07:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.221625.29262@cbfsb.cb.att.com> vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai) writes:
>I'd like to know how long should I keep records like my paycheck stubs,
>my bank statements, etc.  They're accumulating to the point where I have
>to do some housecleaning.  What's the recommended rule of thumb?
>

My recommendation:

 1. Throw out the pay stubs as soon as you have your W-2 form from your
    employer at the end of the year and keep that form forever since
    you'll need it to help establish your Social Security claim (if 
    there's any money left for us :-().

  2. Keep your bank statements for as long as the IRS says that you
     can be liable for incorrectly reporting income and payments on
     debts (about seven years).

Further advice: If you don't have a bank safe deposit box, get one and
put these forms (W-2s, checks and copies of tax returns and related
documents) in it for safekeeping.  Additional advice: Put all long-term
documents concerning a house or apartment if you have one in there also
since the IRS can come calling at any time.

Dave


-- 

Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093
From: tims@sgihbtn.sierra.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Yup, Amway's a scam
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:15:40 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics, Inc.

In article  <2070030@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM> lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek) writes:

>Of course, one must remember that every Amway distributor is in
>business for themselves.  That's right, they do NOT (repeat, DO NOT)
>work FOR Amway.  They work for themsleves.  Amway merely has agreed
>to provide them products and pay them bonuses.  Amway does not teach
>a single solitary distributor how to conduct business.  They merely
>publish guidelines on business conduct - but, as you have seen, they
>do not (cannot) enforce them.

  Then Amway appears to excersice poor control over its process.  Amway could
certainly formulate guidelines and require all distributors to follow them,
or else loose the right to distribute Amway products.  By not doing so,
Amway is leaving itself totally open to unscrupulous distributors.  Since
distributors are promoting Amway's products, they are representing Amway,
and very much reflect the corporation.  Instead of washing their hands
in the name of independance from poor distributors, Amway might to better
to make sure only ethical, competent distributors are allowed into the
organization.
  Throughout all of the threads on Amway, there are three constant themes
which I suspect are leading people to formulate negative conclusions on Amway:

  1)  A distant acquantance calls promoting a great money making opportunity.

  2)  When attending Amway's initial meeting, the word "Amway" is not
mentioned until the end.  In most people's dealings with corporations they
trust, their experience probably is legitimate corporations do not
hide themselves.  Instead, Amway's presentation is reminiscant of consumer
scams which promise the world and deliver little.  Amway's presentation
reminds me of consumer advocate David Horowitzs (sp?) advice on
product adds: "A Tip off to a Rip off:  If there is no picture of the
product, then it's a rip off."  Translation - Why doesn't Amway announce
itself promoninantly and at the beginning at initial meetings?

  3)  The effort to recruite people appears to be greater than selling
products.  This brings up images of pyramid scemes.  Whenever the
Fuller Brush saleman comes to my door, he's trying to sell me brushes - he's
not trying to recruite me.

************************************************************************
* UUCP:uunet!sgihbtn!tims * "The time has come," the Walrus said, "to  *
* ARPA:sgihbtn!tims       *  speak of other things.  Of shoes and      *
*           @uunet.uu.net *  ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and    *
*                         *  Kings... and why the sea is boiling hot,  *
*                         *  and whether pigs have wings.              *
*                         *         -Lewis Carroll                     *
************************************************************************
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:14:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bxnzw4.51J
Distribution: na
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu


In article <EUGENE.92Nov12165745@trout.ksr.com>, eugene@ksr.com (Eugene Yi-jen Pan) writes:
>Convenience is expensive.  People, everyone not just you, bitches and moans 
>about doctor costs and hospital costs, but no one price shops.  No one looks for
>a doctor except when they are injured or sick.  If people would spend some time
>researching their doctors, maybe they wouldn't get reamed all the time.
>
>If you went into a car showroom, took a car home, and told them to bill you, I
>am sure you would be reamed on the price, too.  In most situations, people ask
>for the price before buying, and I don't see why it should be any different for
>medical care.

Well, when and where have you seen doctors and hospitals post their
fees?  I try ask for the cost in advance but they won't give a straight
answer (oh, it depends on the length of the visit, somewhere from
$50-$70).  Even at the end of the visit, they can't tell me how much
the bill is.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: srogers@teenwolf.mcc.com (Steve Rogers)
Subject: Re: Baby Monitors - Any suggestions?
Organization: MCC
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:57:24 GMT

We recently replaced our old baby monitor (a Gerry) with a Sony.  The
Gerry was only fair, as it always had a 60hz buzz in the background,
which is very annoying.  The plug-in adapter cord finally broke after
4 years (2nd kid) so we replaced it.  This Sony has crystal clear
reception, BUT is on the same frequency as the cordless phone (Sony
also) so it receives considerable interference whenever the phone
is in use.  I would NEVER have thought they would put two such devices
on the same frequency - something to think about.  (Yes, there is
a tiny warning on the box).

| Steven Rogers  MCC/ESL  3500 West Balcones Drive
| Austin, Texas 78759-6509  (512) 338-3691 srogers@mcc.com
| Everything is disclaimed -
| Contents have spontaneously generated and posted themselves
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: rkimball@athena.qualcomm.com (Robert Kimball)
Subject: Re: Breadmaking Machines
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:51:53 GMT

tobias@athena.mit.edu (John W Tobias) writes:

>HELP!

>My wife has expressed interest in getting a breadmaking machine, and I would
>like to get one for Chrismas.  I have no experience with the devices, however,
>and don't quite know where to start in figuring out which one is best.

>A freind of mine swears by her DAK TurboBaker II, and they also make a Turbo-
>Baker IV.  I know there are many other models out there, and perhaps some of
>you have checked them out.

>Email is fine as a response... I'm not sure this topic will rivet the entire
>group.

>Thanks for your help!

>John Tobias
>(tobias@athena.mit.edu)

I just got a Hitachi HB101 after a recommendation from a friend and I love it.
I have heard that the DAK machines have minor problems with browning because
of the large dome window.  The DAK machines also produce round loaves while
the Hitachi has a square pan.  I got my machine from Target for ~$179.

If you want more info there is a bread mailing list from onion.rain.com.  They
also have an archive of all back issues which may provide some good tips.

Good luck.

rhk
From: fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Video
Date: 11 Nov 1992 18:48:33 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.5

In article <1992Nov11.165600.855@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> paula@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paula.valley) writes:
: Would anyone happen to know the address of Blockbuster Video's headquarters
: or main branch.  I've received very bad service from a local store and would
: like to send my destroyed card to the main store with an explanation of why.
: 
: Thank you for your help.
: 
: Paula Borden
: att!hogpb!paula1

I called one of the branch offices in Milwaukee and they gave me this:

Blockbuster Entertainment Company
1 Museum Plaza
200 S. Andrews Avenue
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301
(305) 832-3000

If the phone is not correct (a person who gave it to me was kind of uncertain)
call 1-(Florida's Area Code - whatever it is)-555-1212 and ask them (that's
Directory Assistance).

Good luck!

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Heard of Success Motivation Institute?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:23:02 GMT


Andrew Mossberg says "This is no longer the self-help decade."

Details, please. Judging from the size of the self-help book sections
at Crown and Bookstar, it still is.

-- 
David Sternlight
(pgp 2.0 and ripem public keys available on request)

Xref: sparky misc.consumers:18941 misc.consumers.house:14446