From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:22:06 GMT

In article <92098.05041332JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>Salam Alaikum Yasmeen Sahebah:
               ^^^^^^^

	Not to nitpick or anything, but the spelling is YasmIn.

Assalamoalakum


	I found it a little difficult to understand the details of your
	message, but I believe the gist of it was to convince me of the
	holiness of purdah, the weakness of women and the need for limitations
	upon them.

>Further Holy Quran says take help from salah and sabr.  
>Of course before paradah, we have to takecare for our salah first.
>But you may recall that holy Quran gives latitude to women for salah 
>during their days (no need to go in details), what is the philosophy behind ?

	I had always assumed that the exemption of women from salah,
	fasting, etc. during their menstrual period was due to the issue
	of paki and napaki.  In the classical religious sense, a woman is
	napak during her period and thus the exemption from religious duties.
	Islam is very particular about cleanliness.  This exemption does not
	have to do with the physical or mental ability of women to perform
	salah or any other task, religious or otherwise, during their period.
	
>        You may disagree with Maudoodi, this is o.k. but you cannot 
deny the Allah's open order for paradah verses of Ahzab, noor and nisa.

	From the verses I have read about the need for women to cover
	themselves, I don't know where the Muslim men got the idea of
	the exact areas to be covered.  The verses I believe you are 
	to are as follows:

	Al-Ahzab (33:32-33)

	32. O ye wives of the Prophet!  Ye are not like any other women.
	If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest
	he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary
	speech.

	33. And stay in your houses.  Bedizen not yourselves with the 
	bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance.  Be regular in prayer,
	and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger.  Allah's
	wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the
	Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

	Now these verses are clearly directed at the women of the 
	household of the Prophet.  The directive to stay in the home
	was not given to all believing women.  In addition, the dictionary
	definition of bedizen is "to dress in a gaudy or vulgar manner"
	which is very different from wearing something which does not
	show anything but eyes and hands.

	Al-Ahzab (33:59)

	59. O Prophet!  Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women
	of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when
	they go abroad).  That will be better, so that they may be
	recognized and not annoyed.  Allah is ever Forgiving, 
	Merciful.

	Now this verse tells women to draw their wraps around them in
	such a way as they will be recognized as believing women.  There
	is still no directive to cover everything except eyes and hands.
	The gist seems to be that a reason for those who would harrass
	women should not be given to them with clothes which suggest
	otherwise.  Remember the culture that is being dealt with here.
	They would have done anything to harrass the Muslim people.  In
	fact, the verse before it states:

	58. And those who malign believing men and believing women
	undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest
	sin.

	Al-Nur (24:31)

	31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and
	be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which
	is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not
	to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers
	...[many relations stated]...And let them not stamp their feet
	so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment.  And turn unto
	Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.

	This verse stresses covering women's chests.  It also commands
	women not to reveal of their beauty that which is not easily
	perceived.  This can be interpreted in many ways and I'm sure has
	been interpreted by men over the ages as covering everything which
	isn't the eyes and hands.  I wonder if those interpretations were
	so for the good of women or for the benefit of men.  Historically
	woman has been known as a temptress who distracts men from the
	work of God.  Are men so easily distracted that they will see beauty
	in an elbow?  Is nothing on a woman easily perceived but her hands
	and eyes?

> Now let us forget
> Maudoodi and all all hadith cited by him.  Now I am talking about Quran.
>
>    'Wa qarna fi baiutaikunna wala tabbrujna tabbarujutul jahiliatul ula'
>                                                            (Ahzab)
>'Do not go out yourself exposing as you did in the period of jahilia'
>you can see any tafseer, any translation.  
>What this mean, liberal scholar like
>Yousuf Qarzawi even cannot deny about this direct injunction of Holy Quran.

	First of all, this verse is part of a verse I stated above which was
	addressed directly to the wives of the Prophet.  It was not addressed
	to all the believing women.  Secondly, how did women dress in the 
	time of Jahilia?  Did they dress immodestly?
	Did they dress to draw attention or exude sex appeal?  Is there a 
	middle ground between dressing provocatively and covering everything
	up?  Does every part of a woman's body exude uncontrollable sex
	appeal for the men around her?

>But it does not mean that even when there is need women sit at home, they are
>allowed to work but in Islamic limitation and in an Islamic environment.  

	What is this Islamic limitation and Islamic environment?  Is it
	not incumbent upon both men AND women to work within an Islamic
	environment or do you think that men can work as strippers perfectly
	legally within the bounds of Islam?  Both men and women need to
	be modest.  A covering which covers everything is extremely
	cumbersome and annoying.  Is it necessary to cover everything
	for a woman to be modest?



>         Concerning women's menstrual period, I think Maulana Maudoodi cited so
>me medical refrences so this is not his fault.  In daily life, this my own expe
>rice that women are weaker than men and weaker in observation too and cannot re
>sit or fight like men etc.  One American girl,she was POW (girl from Michigan)
>in Iraq and it became big issue in the west ?  What is about hundreds of men PO
>W ?  If you logic is right ?  Why such a massive demonstration and inputs for w
>omen role as prisoner of war.  I think you got my point that women physically l
>agged behind the man.  This is fact.

	I might agree with you that the average woman is smaller physically
	than the average male.  However, it is possible for a woman to be
	bigger and stronger than a man.  In addition, what does this have
	to do with anything?  Since when does brute strength count for
	more than mental ability?  I don't know about others, but I do not
	regularly engage in hand to hand combat.  I definitely use my
	mind than my strength.  It is a fallacy to equate physical strength
	with mental capability.  In the world today, mental ability counts
	more than the ability to pound someone into the ground.  In this
	women definitely do not lag behind.  So what's the problem?



>         I think I clarified most of the question raised by you and still I inv
>ite you to read the verses of ahzab, nisa and noor.  By the way I asked Arabic
>scholars about the validity and authenticity of his book 'paradah' and their
>reply remained affirmative.

	I don't think you clarified the questions I raised.  You presented
	me with verses in the Quran which are vaguely defined and asked me
	to infer from this that every portion of a woman's body except for
	the eyes and hands should be covered.  I can infer no such thing.
	Since I don't know the Arabic scholars you are consulting and don't
	know which biases they might hold, I cannot take your word that they
	replied as you say or that they were qualified to reply at all.


>         Do you want me to cite the exact verse of sura ahzab on jalabeeb 'to c
>over faces ' for muslim women.  This is verse is clearly mentioned in Ahzab and
> verses of surah noor supports it.  Holy Quran says 'if some comes to your door
> give the the requested thing from the side (do not come in front)' verse sur
>an noor. In early morning I do not have Quran with me in the lab otherwise I ca
>n give u the exact verse and #.

	It is in Al-Ahzab (33:53):
	
	53. O ye who believe!  Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet
	for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless 
	permission be granted to you.  But if ye are invited, enter,
	and, when your meal is ended, then disperse.  Linger not for
	conversation.  Lo!  that would cause annoyance to the Prophet,
	and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy
	of the truth.  And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet)
	anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain.  That is purer for
	your hearts and for their hearts.  And it is not for you to
	cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should
	ever marry his wives after him.  Lo!  that in Allah's sight would
	be an enormity.

	Now I know that this is supposed to traditionally be the verse
	which signaled the descent of the hijab.  However, there is also
	published work, which is more plausible which states that this
	verse was for the benefit of the privacy of the Prophet and his
	household.  Except for the part about the curtain, the verse
	concerns itself solely with the annoyance of the Prophet and the
	privacy of his household.  Is this curtain a veil which has
	descended over the faces of women or is it a curtain which guards
	the privacy of the Prophet's house.  Remember, 6 verses later in
	the same surah, believing women are told to draw their cloaks round
	them close.  Why would they be told that if they had already been
	told to wear hijab?

>Why Holy Quran says (sura noor) do not talk to the men politely and do not
>walk by making noise with your steps.  What these means ?

	Does it tell women to cover up or does it tell them not to
	draw undue or provocative attention to themselves?

>          Again somebody will write this is segregation, no, if the I
>slamic government will come in true spirit I do not think there is any need for
>women to go for work.  Inshall we will form an ideal welfare state and give the
> women their due respect like queen not like floor cleaning genitors.  Please
>feel free to write or ask any question.  Your brother in Islam. jafry

	This is not a matter of need.  It is a matter of want.  Women
	want to go to work.  They want to be an active part of this
	world.  They want to have a destiny which is not predetermined
	by men.  I don't want to be treated like a queen or a janitor.
	I want to be treated like a human being who is equal to other
	human beings and who is judged on her acts as any other human
	being, man or woman.

Khudahafiz

Yasmin


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