From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Invasion of Time
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:41:55 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Sep29.013038.4421@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>A whole bunch of stuff deleted to make this readable.
>The stuff is my argument on Mawdryn and Invasion of time.
>Ian Robert Asplin replies:
>
>>First off, you've proved my point exactly in the text above, that the Eight
>>were Gallifreyans.  You say from, the video that the Time Lords captured
>>the eight and set them in the warp ellipse for all eternity.
>>Then who does the line "the Elders of our planet" refer to?  Must be the
>>time Lords since they are the ones who abandoned them and put them in
>>the warp ellips by your own admission!  
>
>Oh Brother. How do you figure this out? The line says that the Elders
>abandoned them to their fate. It could mean that the Elders did not try
>to interfere when the Time Lords captured them. If they meant the Elders
>to be the Time Lords, why did they not say so? There is no compelling argument
>that the 8 were ordinary Gallifreyans. Twist it however you like. All you
>are doing is attributing a meaning to a throw away line. It can mean all
>sorts of things.

If a Gallifreyan is born a Time Lord, then how could the Eight hope
to turn themselves into Time Lords with just a regenerator machine,
since being a Time Lord is a little more than that, there's the symbiotc
nuclei, there's the respiratory bypass system, the link to the Matrix,
the telepathy and hypnotism powers, etc.

I still say the Eight were ordinary Gallifreyans, much like Time Lords
in many respects, but without regenerations, which is why they stole
the machine to try and get themselves the regenerations they didn't
have.  As to why they did it this way, we don't know.  Yes, they probably
could have passed the academic requirements, but perhaps other things
stood in their way of their graduation such as political infighting between
Time Lord chapters, perhaps they each already had some sort of "criminal "
record that disqualified them, etc.

I still read the line "the elders of our planet decided to abandon us
to our Fate," as "the Time Lords left us like this, trapped forever in
the warp ellipse."
I think this because when Mawdryn says this, he is speaking to the Doctor
as if "our planet" meant "the planet both you and I 9and the others with
us) come from."  
I also think this because the spaceship itself clearly has some
Gallifreyan engineering in it, such as the dimensionally transcendental
transmat capsule, the signal which could jam the TARDIS DeMat, 
the compatibility of the TARDIS homing device with the capsule,
the warp ellipse itself that requires temporal deviations to escape it,
mawdryn's knowledge of the Time Lords and of basic TARDIS functions,
thier knowledge of the dangers of the Blinovitch Limitation Effect,etc.  

As for the "they were operating on themselves then" argument, I agree
it was stupid for them to do this, but not so stupid as to make it
completely unbelieveable that they would try it.  
It happens on our planet often enough.  Athlete X wants to win a race,
Athlete X probably has the potential to win the race with more
workouts but doesn't want to put in the work or doesn't have time
to do the work, so Athlete X, fully aware of what he/she is doing,
takes steroids despite their deliterious effects on the human body.
"But regeneration is more dangerous than this," you say.
On the face of it, it does seem quite a leap.  Perhaps they started
slowly, only toying with the regenerator at first to see if they could
get it to do anything for them at all, and slowly gaining false
confidence in their abilities the further and further they go.
Ever see "Flatliners?"  Similar situation to what could have happened
with them.  
That's how I read the limited background we get on the Mawdryn mutants.
I guess you don't.






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