HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth J. Banner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Hufford Experience and the Death Car
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:23:14 GMT
Organization: School of Arts and Sciences, UPENN

I appreciate Rob's response to my post about Hufford and I hope to give my
thoughts on his response later when I have more time (I don't think we
disagree as much as it may have appeared in my previous post).
 	In the meantime I just wanted to point out that Hufford teaches at a
medical college and he does an extensive treatment of the possibilities of
sleep paralysis, REM, etc. as explanations for aspects of the experience. 
My impression is that he sees this as quite probable in some cases. 
However he is careful to point out that even if these explanations are
involved they do not account for all of the data.
	He, in fact, is careful not to advocate a "final position" on how
one is to explain these events.  His argument is basically that the issue
should remain open until there is a sufficient explanation for all of the
recurring details. (i.e. even if we can explain the paralysis that doesn't
explain the entire experience).  
	Anyway, for those of you out there who are now worried because you've
had attacks of sleep paralysis but never considered it to be anything
"supernatural" I think you can relax.
	Thanks to all of you who have responded with your own experiences!
 I'm still interested in hearing from anyone else.  I've had Hufford as a
professor so I'll even pass the accounts on to him, if you don't mind.

Ken
 
	     
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: dfw@thumper..bellcore.com (Doris Woods)
Subject: Re: Demon rider
Summary: Yes Please!! 
Reply-To: dfw@thumper.UUCP (Doris Woods)
Organization: Bellcore MRE
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:16:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.175413.8505@iscsvax.uni.edu> mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>        If you guys like these, I've got other tales, like the tale of the
>unknown soldger, ghost lights, the delemma of the hunters etc.
>
>
>                                        Diana McMurtrey
>                                        Accounting Dept.
>                                        University of Northern Iowa
>

  Yes please do tell!!!! 

   Doris
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The Viper!
From: mew@gacvx1.gac.edu
Date: 7 Nov 92 12:13:15 -0600
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, Minnesota
Nntp-Posting-User: mew




You mean you've seen that episode too!?!!  Oh joy!  If you really want to hear
another one I suggest you check out the book "Scary Stories" from your local
library.... it's a real hoot!   By the way, the story was never in GI joe... I
should know.... I used to watch it every morning.  Now you know too and knowing
is half the battle! :)
should know... I used to watch them every morning!  Hyuck hyuck hyuck.In
article <seynlLu00WBNM9dGU7@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Demian A. Johnston"
<daj+@CMU.EDU> writes:
> Can you tell us another story from the GI joe cartoons?
>     Demian  <daj+@CMU.EDU>   <dj1l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
> 
>
From: owens@hilbert.wharton.upenn.edu (Susan Owens)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:28:05 GMT
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <96583@netnews.upenn.edu> kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth J. Banner) writes:
>P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
>ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
>describes?

  I have had something like this happen to me once.  It was about a year
ago and I had gone into my room to take a nap.  It was the middle of the
day so it was pretty light out.  I don't know how long I was asleep but
for some reason I woke up very alert (I normally don't).  I wasn't
startled awake like a loud sound or something had woken me, it was more
like I woke up because I felt a presence in the room.  I couldn't move,
I couldn't yell, I couldn't even move my eyes.  Then out of the corner of
my left eye I remember seeing something red and it look like it had
substance, not like a light or anything.  I was sure that someone had
broken into my apartment and was in my room.  

After about a minute all
of a sudden the red was gone and I could move again.  I immediately
called up my roomate and told him what had happened.  I don't remember
registering anything pushing me down.  But I have been in situations
before where i have been very scarred and have had to act and I have
never frozen so I don't think that was it, but you never know.  And to
this day I was sure that something was in the room.  

  Even though I don't believe in ghosts and such somethings you just
can't explain.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:00:24 GMT

In article <1dc6tjINN878@chnews.intel.com> smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~) writes:

>I thought the idea here was to hear ghost stories; ...

Ghost Stories? I thought this was alt.what.movies.used.carminia.burana. :-)

  Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves        |
|  aws@iti.org     |  nothing undone"                                       |
+----------------------169 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: flournoy@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Raymond Suke Flournoy)
Subject: Re: white dog
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:18:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.154214.8557@iscsvax.uni.edu> mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.173824.25811@odin.corp.sgi.com>, jgitomer@moshster.clubfed.sgi.com (Jay
>
>> Now my grandfather wasn't a superstitious man and he was a great dog-lop-To: 
>> O
>
>        I'm sorry, did my computer eat part of the last of this story? ...

  I read a few news groups, and I must say that this sort of mangling
of articles seems to happen on this group much more often than on any
other group I know of.  Coincidence?  Or does some{one|thing} not want
these stories being told...?

  Gosh this group gives me the creeps!


--Raymond Flournoy        
======================================================================
flournoy@cs.stanford.edu                 "Throwing away happiness with 
Computer Science Dept.                    both hands, since 1966."
Stanford University, CA
From: mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: RE: A Hufford Exp.-Experimental
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:08:53 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

        Oh, I forgot to add on the reply to the Hag stories...what was I
thinking...OH YEAH....next time it occurs try an experiment put some coins in a
spot out of normal eyesight like behind a lamp.  Don't look at the dates on the
coins...  Then when the experience happens attempt to slowly visualize you way
to the coins like if you had to walk (or float) to them.  Try to see the
dates on a coin or two.  Afterward, check to see how accurate you where and
report back to us... It could rule out out-of-body.

        Maybe you should post your question also on the vampire and witch
groups. There are several...

                                                Diana Kay McMurtrey
From: ath@linkoping.trab.se (Anders Thulin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Ouiji - some thoughts...
Keywords: no keywords
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:08:32 GMT
Organization: Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden

In article <1992Nov3.202502.1019@dct.ac.uk> reply to self writes:

> I know that in my culture ghosts, djins and the like are definitely beleived
>in. 
>
> Overall, 70% of me says Yes its true & 30% says No its not!!!!!!
>
> Any comments!

I once picked up a book called 'The Stately Ghosts of England' by
Diane Norman (I think). She reports on visits to some 'haunted' places
in England that she and Tom Corbett (an English clairvoyant) made.

Unusual book - highly recommended.

-- 
Anders Thulin       ath@linkoping.trab.se 	013-23 55 32
Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
From: connorm@vax.sonoma.edu (Michelle Connor)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: viper
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:21:00 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hey! I remember that one!!  My dad had a Tiny Tim Album and he used to play it
for us .... that story (turned into a song) was on there...

Way cool album, too...It's the one that has 'Tip toe thru' the tulips' on it!!!


Michelle --check it out!--
From: noid@nick.csh.rit.edu (ky "$120" hall)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Date: 9 Nov 92 00:38:25 GMT
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: Computer Science House @ RIT

In article <96583@netnews.upenn.edu> kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth J. Banner) writes:
>
>P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
>ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
>describes?

there was this one time when i was about 11 or 12,  i had just awaken and 
	couldn't sit up.  i just sat there and stared into space.  i soon
	got so scared that i started to hyperventalate (sp?) and sat bolt
	upright.  for quite a while i believed my bedroom to be haunted but
	eventually convinced myself that i had merely been having a 
	nightmare....   that is till now.
good thing we moved.....  :)

-simply noid
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:16:50 GMT

In article <DEMILLO.92Nov10144028@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>,
demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes:

>
>Oh puh-leaze!
>
>I was out of line to state the obvious? Notice the one person who hasn't
>jumped to Albert's defense has been Albert.
>
>At any rate, read the followup posting to the more rational response
>of "tgtchb@tb1."
>
>- Rob

Come on Rob, after opening up like that (it is a stretch for some
people to post this type of story) and then getting his butt chewed
like you did, I'd be surprised if he ever posts here again.
Try to use a little more netiequette and a little less venom next time.
     --Ed
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:40:28 GMT
	<DEMILLO.92Nov6113958@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>
	<1derhmINNkm5@chnews.intel.com>
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab: Fine Food and Coffee

In article <1derhmINNkm5@chnews.intel.com> smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~) writes:

> Yes there is room for all on here....however you were playing the all knowing judge,
> who are you to call Albert a Liar....you don't know him, and you do not know for
> a fact his friend didn't relate this story, and perhaps even expirience this
> event...just because it is in folk lore, doen't mean it isn't still a happening
> event....I am trying to just keep an open mind.....And you sir, were out of
> line...
> Stephen

Oh puh-leaze!

I was out of line to state the obvious? Notice the one person who hasn't
jumped to Albert's defense has been Albert.

At any rate, read the followup posting to the more rational response
of "tgtchb@tb1." 

- Rob


--


 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	  demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| America Online: exgalileo@aol.com
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality:        617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab: Fine Food and Coffee
	<DEMILLO.92Nov4154110@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>
	<1dc6tjINN878@chnews.intel.com>
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:39:58

In article <1dc6tjINN878@chnews.intel.com> smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~) writes:

> I thought the idea here was to hear ghost stories; Albert told a Ghost
> story....we are not here to watch you have an ego trip criticing the story...you
> have ideas...tell them in sceptic or somewhere else....gees...
> Stephen

Not to burst your bubble, Stephen...but there was no "ego trip" involved.
If you take a look at the newsgroup name, its called "alt.folklore.ghost-stories"
which implies that not only is it about ghost stories, but it is about folklore.
The "Death Car" story is classic Americana folklore...

...now, I was assuming that you'd want to know the real history behind that
story, rather than have Albert post it as though is was a real contact of his
"friend-of-a-friend."  He did not post it as a "story" but as a first hand
"experience." That means that either he was taken in by the Death Car story,
or he was (yup, hard to believe) deliberately lying.

You wanna be gullible, that's great...you wanna have intelligent discussions on 
this net about folklore, that's great too. There's room for all, Stephen.


--


 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	  demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| America Online: exgalileo@aol.com
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality:        617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: gugler-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Gugler)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 8 Nov 1992 20:16:04 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Undergraduate
	<DEMILLO.92Nov4154110@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>
	<1dc6tjINN878@chnews.intel.com> <tgtchb.721143540@tb1.chem.tue.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: frog.zoo2.cs.yale.edu
In-reply-to: tgtchb@tb1.chem.tue.nl's message of 7 Nov 92 13:39:00 GMT

In article <tgtchb.721143540@tb1.chem.tue.nl> tgtchb@tb1.chem.tue.nl (Harold C.L. Baur) writes:
>Talking about old stories that we all know... is there an official
>version of the good ol' MONKEYS PAW ? Or was that one never put to
>paper? Does anyone out here have it? Or willingly to tell it?

Never put to paper?  I seem to remember reading that for high school
English in a compilation of short stories.  I'll have to go dig out
the reference; anyone else have the original author's name handy?

          - Sean
-- 
Sean Gugler                    gugler-sean@cs.yale.edu     <-- Internet
P.O. Box 1902 Yale Station         gugseap@yalevm          <-- Bitnet
New Haven, CT  06520   USA         sgugler@music.yale.edu  <-- NeXT
(203)-436-0861            We both have truths; are mine the same as yours?
From: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: The unknown soldier
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:01:16 GMT
Reply-To: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University



Excellent story of the Unknown Soldier!!!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: stories
Reply-To: masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:34:46 GMT


Well, I guess I have kind of a story to contribute (after having read so
many great ones here).  It's kind of family folklore in my family and I
first heard it from my grandfather (who was there).

Apparently, my great-grandfather, Danny Shea, came from Ireland as a baby
and was brought up with many superstitions from the "old country".  When
he was 37 (and in good health by outward appearances) he became suddenly
frantic one day and went to his wife telling her he had to get his things
in order because he was going to die.  She laughed at him and asked how
he knew he was going to die and he said that he could hear a ticking, like
a clock, in the walls of the house.  He asked her couldn't she hear it?
She said she couldn't and that he was being foolish to believe in old stories
(I guess the clock-ticking story came from Ireland).  Anyway, he rushed
around and got his papers all in order as he had 5 children and was a young
man so he hadn't a will or anything.  On the third day, after he'd finished
all his paperwork, he died.  His wife never forgave herself for not believing
him and, from what I understand, she was a fairly bitter woman for the rest
of her life.



I also have another family story like this which I'll send another day.

Debbie McNally
From: meierdalepau@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: RE:  The Viper!
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:23:02 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

	The Viper story was a subplot in an episode of GI Joe with the end 
showing the 'Joes sitting around armed to the teeth, awaiting what they 
think is a Cobra defector, only to find a little old dude in coveralls and 
a painter's cap carrying a bucket filled with water and a rag.  "I am de 
viper--top floor first!"

Dale Meier
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: casmith@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (CatherineArnott Smith)
Subject: Ghost stories vs. urban legends
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:34:45 GMT


Re ghost stories or ghost happenings: I don't mind reading outright "stories"
in this list as long as they're labelled that way.  There is a real mix here
of actual hauntings and just-plain-stories, and when people don't say what
they are it's confusing. IMHO.

Catherine Arnott Smith
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:23:47 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alamo.intel.com
Originator: smintz@alamo


I thought the idea here was to hear ghost stories; Albert told a Ghost
story....we are not here to watch you have an ego trip criticing the story...you
have ideas...tell them in sceptic or somewhere else....gees...
Stephen
From: jgitomer@moshster.clubfed.sgi.com (Jay Gitomer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: white dog
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:38:24 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

My grandmother told me this story. She says it happened to her in the
mid-Sixties.

She and my grandfather had been at a bar mitzvah in Baltimore that day, 
didn't leave until after dark.  In the parking lot, my grandfather unlocked the
door of their coupe for her, waited for her to get in, and then shut and locked
the door behind her.  He walked around to his own side, got in, and they drove
off.

This happened back when the road between Balto and D.C. was just a stripon

tarmac between the dairy farms.  There weren't a lot of lights, people, or
traffic.

Around halfway between Baltimore and D.C., she became aware of a snuffli
the back seat.  Turning around, she saw a large shepherd-type dog in the
backseat-- pure white with yellow eyes ringed in white, like a human's, and big
black claws.  She said it looked right at her and her blood ran cold.

My grandfather heard her gasp. turned around, and immediately pulled the/inc
onto the shoulder.  He let the dog out right there.

Now, my grandfather wasn't a superstitious man and he was a great dog-lop-To: 
O
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:33:12 GMT
	<19921110161634CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43

In article <19921110161634CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU writes:
> In article <DEMILLO.92Nov10144028@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>,
> demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes:

> >I was out of line to state the obvious? Notice the one person who hasn't
> >jumped to Albert's defense has been Albert.
> >
> >- Rob

> Come on Rob, after opening up like that (it is a stretch for some
> people to post this type of story) and then getting his butt chewed
> like you did, I'd be surprised if he ever posts here again.
> Try to use a little more netiequette and a little less venom next time.
>	--Ed

Ok...this *completely* astonishes me. I'm amazed that people on here
are defending someone who was *blanently* trying to pull the 
collective groups' leg...yet I'm taking the heat for bringing this up.

Let's put it this way, Ed. I *really* enjoy folklore, I collect it, 
I research what interests me, etc. I like to see things reported 
accurately, I get annoyed when I see things being distorted.

OK, maybe I flew into Albert too quickly, and to the group I 
apologize for that. But give me a break...! "...a friend bought
a car, etc etc etc...?" Every other posting in this group
I have read *without exception* has always sited whether or not
their tale was a story or not...

Let's put it another way...I have a huge collection of literature 
tracking a lot of these things down. I have no problem in posting 
explanations to things that come up, but only if people request it
from now on.

But I swear, Ed...if I hear someone say "...and as my girlfriend and
I drive away...there on THE SIDE OF THE CAR WAS A HOOK!!!!!" I'm gonna
react *exactly* the way I reacted to Albert.



--


 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	  demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| America Online: exgalileo@aol.com
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality:        617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: lsheehan@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Carmina Burana and the Exorcist
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:11:49 GMT

	FYI, Carmina wasn't used in _The Exorcist_; Tubular Bells (or at least
the first two minutes or so of it) was the music used.  Anyone into really
funky music, or who needs a good laugh, should check it out.
	And yes, Rob, some of us DID like _Excalibur_.  Even though they were
running around in 15th century armour.  ;)

						lisa
						lsheehan@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: posmond@bmerh531.bnr.ca (Paul Osmond)
Subject: A Hufford experience. 
Keywords: Old Hag
Reply-To: posmond@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:21:50 GMT

This is my first time posting to the network so excuse any lack of network
jargon or format.

Anyway, the artical about the Death Cars were somebody mentions the
Newfoundland
 old hag experiences and how this guy Hufford did some studies about them, is 
of special interest to me.  Eventhough this artical is being written in Ottawa,
I am from Newfoundland and have had experiences like the type known as the Old
Hag.  However, I don't beleive that being from Newfoundland has anything to 
do with it.

An Old Hag is the feeling just waking up after a short nap and having the 
sensation of weight pressing down upon you, to the point where you can't move
any muscle in your body.   I have had this happen to many times and to me it
seems to be a state between consciousness and unconsciousness.  In this state,
if I remember correctly, everything seems sort of surreal and to be quite
honest I'm not sure if my eyes are open and I'm seeing the room around me or
if my eys are closed and I am dreaming about the room.

The feeling of a heavy weight pushing down upon you, in my case, seems to be
an inaccurate discription.   For me the sensation is more like my consciousness
is trapped inside my head looking out through my eye holes and nothing in my 
body responds to the actions I want to take.  I remember the feeling to be 
very frustrating instead of the feeling of my muscles fighting against a great
weight.

I haven't read anything by this guy Hufford and I wonder if my experiences
are along the same ones he talks about.

For those of you who don't know where Newfoundland is, it is that big island
on the east coast of Canada, and there the Old Hag experiences are known as
"Hag Dreams".

						Lots of Luck
						Paul
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories