HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hduncan@cs.ucsd.edu (Hal Duncan)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Knee problem... sound familiar?
Date: 3 Jan 93 03:04:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, UC San Diego


I just started running again in September after several years of working
on my couch potato impersonation.  I started with 1.5 miles at 9 per a
couple of times a week, and worked up to 4.5 miles at 8.5 per three or
four times a week by mid-November.  This, by the way, is the farthest
I've _ever_ been able to run consistently.

Then I sprained my ankle playing racquetball.  I let it heal about 1.5
weeks (until it didn't feel tender to walk on, basically) and then went
running again.  Either that first run or the one following (I don't
remember which), I finished the run fine but woke up the next day with
a great deal of pain in the same-side knee as the sprain (specifically,
in the tendon on the outside of the patella and especially at the lower
connection to the femur).  I was unable to climb stairs for three or
four days and had trouble walking.

Since then, I have gone for a total of three or four short, slow runs,
hoping that this would "work itself out."  What has happened is the pain
hit sooner each run and lasted shorter... although it's now been two
weeks since I've run at all and I still can't do more than two or three
flights of stairs before my knee "gives out."  Also, my ankle is still
tender when I put resistance on it at a certain angle.

I stretch before every run.  I run my first mile slow and walk about a
mile after the run.  I do have kind of a funky stride -- my feet land
nearly on a straight line ("Indian style"); I have no idea if this is
related.  I also have no idea if the ankle sprain is related.  I once
had Osgood Schlatter's in the same knee, but it is supposedly completely
healed.  I have also had chondromalacia in the other knee, which felt
similar but did not involve any pain in the outer tendon.

Anyways, I'm going to see a doctor in a week or so.  I was just hoping
that this would sound familiar to someone so that I would have a possibility
to throw at the doctor.


Hal
-- 
****************************************************************************
                     "ObSheesh: Sheesh!"  -- Jenny G.
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:07:51 GMT

In article <102976@netnews.upenn.edu> sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella) writes:
}In article <1992Dec22.134618.4405@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>How great do you expect someone to get, who jogs to McDonalds?
}
}When you start judging someone by their speed, you take away from 

Wait one.  _I_ didn't mention speed...

}them the one thing that is so very special about running.  With 
}running you do it for YOU.  You are your primary contender.  You set your
}goals, you decide when to run fast and when to run slow.

His goal is clear: McDonalds!

}How dare anyone put someone down because they think they
}don't run fast enough!  We as runners should support other
}runners in their endeavors not ridicule them because they
}don't live up to our standards!

How dare you try to "shout down" someone because of what YOU think, and not what 
THEY do.  You harp on things (speed, fast enough...,) that I never even mentioned.
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: president-elect's runs
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:18:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.052155.5071@eng.umd.edu>, gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
|> 	...Since CNN considers running in "near-freezing" temperatures
|> to be an accomplishment, I would like to personally extend my
|> congratulations to each and every person out there who has run and
|> lives north of...

Thank you, I accept your congratulations :-)

Here in Minnesota, we have a reversed meaning for the phrase "near
freezing" :-(

-- 
Gordon K. Chace
Control Data Systems, Inc.   phone (612) 482-6524   fax 482-2791
email: gordon.chace@cdc.com or gkc@udev.cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
From: wilding@cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Wilding)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: steamrooms
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:01:32 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

  I enjoy sitting in the steamroom after a long run, but I'm beginning 
to suspect a connection between that activity and my knee problems.  Is
post-run steamroom or sauna use advisable?

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Reasons needed for running
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:18:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.031114.15436@mic.ucla.edu> rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush ) writes:
>In article <15890051@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jgr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Rohrbaugh) writes:
>>
>>Ken Cooper said something to the effect of, "If you are running more than
>>3 miles 3-4 times a week, you are doing it for reasons other than your
>>health". 
>That is absolutely false.  The health benefits from running are greater
>the more you run, even up to 10 or more miles a day (if you know what
>you
>are doing and don't hurt yourself and take care of yourself
>otherwise).  People always say that you only need to run for about 30
>minutes 3-4 times a week because that is about the level past which
>the marginal returns on you running investment decrease most
>drastically, BUT THEY STILL EXIST!


The most-quoted study in area is of an east coast 25(?)th alumni group
where there was considerable improvement in health for people who
exercised aerobically 2000 kcal per week, but not much improvement thereafter.
Not there was a decline in health beyond 2000 kcal either.
This probably saying there is a lot more difference between coach potatoes
and people who run 30 miles a week, than between 30 and 60 miles a week.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: raterink@pasadena.jsc.nasa.gov (keith raterink 283-4133)
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Organization: MDSSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:43:16 GMT



>>  34 - 36       You are god

    OH my GAWD, I'm a god!!!

>>  30 - 33       You were god, and think you are one of the best

    I always thought I was one of the best, long before i was a deity. 8^)



                     HappyholidayS,

                          KER
                          TRY-a-TRI
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Brand new runner
From: kitten@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Bruce Saul)
Date: 28 Dec 92 08:55:39 MST
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
Keywords: Sorry to break up the scintillating thread about how

	Basically I have a friend who is thinking of starting to
run.  She is 35, in general good health, but with knees that don't
like going up stairs.   She is in moderate aerobic condition from
exercising her horses.

	My question is how do I start her out in our sport in such
a way that keeps the chance of injury low but does not bore her
to tears.    Keeping interest high is important because running is
going to have to compete with various elements of training and showing
her horses.

	Thanks for the help.

			Bruce Saul / kitten@sneeze.resp-sci.arizona.edu




Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
From: dvfreese@freese.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Doug Freese)
Subject: Re: Orthotic info requested
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 22:21:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM Corp. Kingston NY

In article <1992Dec21.155100.9482@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> gilsonm@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>In article <1gsnfbINN7vb@life.ai.mit.edu>, gillett@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Walter E. Gillett) writes:
>> Hi, Folks
>>     I've got pretty severe pronation and have had various podiatrists and
>> orthopedists recommend that I get a pair of orthotics.  However, I've never
>> been one to drop about $350 without trying to learn something about what I'm
>> buying so I've been procrastinating while perusing the local libraries in search
>> of some info.  So far I've met with zero success so I've decided to appeal to
>> the net.deities out there.
>> 
>	Shop around for another podiatrist.  My podiatrist said he makes his
>	money on surgery, not orthotics.  He charges his cost + visit cost
>	for the orthotics - $190.  They're made by the same lab that made
>	a pair for a friend for $320 (different podiatrist...).

Definitly shop around.  Maybe it's only this area but the local podiatrists 
start mixing the plaster when they suspect a runner is in the waiting
room.  They are $325+ per pair and they want you to have a running pair
and of course a pair for work shoes. My facitious point, they are 
over prescribed and over charged .
                       Doug 
-- 
--------The race is not to the swift but to those who keep on running -----
Doug Freese                 (The views expressed here are entirely mine)     
I.B.M. Corp.                email: dvfreese@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com 
Neighborhood Rd. Kingston N.Y. 12401 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: gcm@world.std.com (Gretchen C Macdowall)
Subject: Re: Fun with a truck. NOT!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:30:42 GMT

>Anyway, one should always exercise caution, especially as a pedestrian, when
>facing several hundred pounds of steel traveling with a good bit more momentum
>and kinetic energy than the typical human body.  
   
You don't even have to be running. Two
recent experiences that keep me alert at intersections:
   
- On the corner waiting for the light to change. A large truck takes the
corner really sharp and part of the truck and the back wheels come up onto
the sidewalk. If I hadn't jumped out of the way I would have been
flattened. I used to stand at the very edge of the corner so I could vault
off as soon as the light changed - no more.
   
- Crossing the street between cars stopped for a light. Car rolls back
just as I am going between it and the car behind it. Almost got squashed
between the two cars.

I don't think anyone was being malicious in either case - just not very
observant.
From: terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:18:51 GMT
Organization: The Lafayette Group, St. Louis, MO.

In article <1992Dec22.022717.3500@cbnews.cb.att.com>, jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:
+ spit@austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer) writes:
+ >> 	   In a Nov. 27 news article, you characterize President-elect
+ >> 	Clinton's race time of 24:16 in a five-kilometer run as "fair
+ >> 	at best" and a "mediocre jog."
+ >This mild ridicule does seem unwarranted, but I'm curious to see the original
+ >article.  Does anyone have the original and can either transcribe or at least
+ >communicate the context of the article?
+ >
+ >I wonder what the original author's 5K time is -- if he/she could run that far!
+ 
+ I don't have the article, but I'd wager that the reporter asked a runner
+ at the race if the time was any good. And let's face it, runners often
+ think anyone who runs faster than them is a god and anyone who runs slower
+ than them is a turkey -- when in the big picture, someone who can string
+ three eight-minute miles together is definitely ahead of the game!
+ 

Give me a break. I'm glad the President-elect is a runner. But his
times are definitely mid-pack. That makes him a mediocre runner.
-- 
  Terry Linhardt                ...!wupost!jgaltstl!terry 
                                terry%jgaltstl.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: pfz@sei.cmu.edu (Paul Zarrella)
Subject: Re: Presidential running shoes (was Re: Clinton mediocre runner?)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:47:47 EST

In article <102990@netnews.upenn.edu> sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec22.190547.9144@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>
>>>Who cares?  Besides, what athletic shoe is manufactured domestically anymore
>>>anyway?  =)  =)
>>>
>>>allen
>  
>
>   Saucony

...and New Balance...
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: ian@lassen.wpd.sgi.com (Ian Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:59:33 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In <1992Dec24.000943.20651@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob) writes:

>  I have to agree with the first guy.  Clinton is all show and no
>  substance.  I'm not impressed with anyone who jogs to McDonalds to
>  pork out on Curly Fries.  He's trying to have it both ways.

 The paper says he has his "daily cup of decaf coffee and walks home".

 Regardless of his performance, he is at least setting some example; that
you should exercise daily.
--

--
Ian Clements,
ian@sgi.com, 415/390-3410
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL (Toni Derion)
Subject: Re: Reasons needed for running
Reply-To: derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL
Organization: Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:17:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.154925.3094@eng.umd.edu>, gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu
(Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:

[deleted]

>	Agreed.  I personally prefer to run more than 30 or 40 minutes
>simply because then you can get further away.  In fact, 45 minutes of
>slow-running (barely aerobic) promotes weight-loss (a good reason to
>run just for exercise and not for the joy of running) by burning more
>fat.

[deleted]

Please allow me to clear up some mis-information above.  "Slow-running"
is not barely aerobic.  In fact, it is essentially entirely AEROBIC.
Light exercise is characterized by low levels of lactic acid in the
blood, because the working muscles are receiving sufficient O2
supply.  In fact, even as exercise intensity increases to about 50% of
an individual's VO2max, lactic acid concentration remains pretty
stable, because its rate of clearance is about equal to its rate
of production in the muscle.  However, when exercise intensity reaches
55-60% VO2max, the beginning of an exponential rise in lactic acid
level in the blood is observed.  This is because aerobic metabolism
is no longer sufficient, so the demand for energy must be met by
reactions other than those which utilize O2.  Anaerobic glycolysis
(the anaerobic breakdown of glucose to pyruvate and lactate) comes
into play, because the energy (ATP) for muscle contraction can be
produced much more rapidly this way.  This exponential rise in
lactic acid level is called the "anaerobic threshold", "lactate
threshold", or "OBLA" (onset of blood lactate), and is the price
one pays for rapid ATP production.  So, as exercise intensity
approaches max, energy production becomes more ANAEROBIC.
Thanks for letting me clear that up!

Toni D., PhD
From: kpapai@rahul.net (Ken Papai)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Al Gore better runner
Summary: Gore better than Clinton
Keywords: AL GORE, Clinton, not mediocre
Date: 24 Dec 92 02:29:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: a2i network

Al Gore certainly runs.  In some photo/video - ops I've seen him running
with slick Willy.  He looks like he's pretty good, and appears probably
bored with Bill's slow pace.  Anyone got the scoop on our future veep?
What's his 5K best?  My guess is Al Gore can crank out a 22:40, which
makes him better than mediocre, and in the top 32% of male runners.

George Bush, mister super competitive president, can whip them both.
-- 
Ken Papai <kpapai@rahul.net>
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: gcm@world.std.com (Gretchen C Macdowall)
Subject: Re: Fun with a truck
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 14:44:39 GMT

jcs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.c.schwebel) writes:

>>US,  people cast off that famous New England reserve. Many runners wear
>>antlers ...
>Better make sure no hunting season is in effect.
>After all, isn't Connecticut part of the northeast?
   
LOL Maybe we should change the thread to "Fun with a Gun". In these parts
(Boston area) more humans are shot than deer. I live in the burbs, but
there are city areas I wouldn't run in.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: Presidential running shoes (was Re: Clinton mediocre runner?)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:40:45 GMT

allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>A.M.T.Bell@daresbury.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell) writes:
>>
>>Trivia time: from the newspaper photo it looks like he wears ASICS.
>>
>>Do the american voters know this, the american president running in 
>>japanese shoes,
>
>Who cares?  Besides, what athletic shoe is manufactured domestically anymore
>anyway?  =)  =)

I notice my ASICS say 'Made in Korea,' so it looks like Japan uses the
same manufacturing facilities as we do anyway. :-)

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: donath@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Matt Donath)
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:25:09 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Dec21.175447.20289@cbnews.cb.att.com>, by jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp):
> This letter appeared in the New York Times a little while ago:
> 
> 	Clinton's Other Run
> 
> 	To the Editor:
> 
> 	   In a Nov. 27 news article, you characterize President-elect
> 	Clinton's race time of 24:16 in a five-kilometer run as "fair
> 	at best" and a "mediocre jog." His pace per mile was 7 minutes
> 	and 50 seconds. I have been running for 20 years, and can
> 	assure you that a 7:50 pace is quite respectable and certainly
> 	not mediocre. To paraphrase Vice President Quayle, "if Bill
> 	Clinton can govern as well as he jogs, we'll be all right."
> 
> 	Edwin A. Salsitz
> 	New York, Nov. 30, 1992
> 
While 24:16 in a 5K could certainly be considered a "mediocre jog",
it is an amazing time for someone of Clinton's girth.  He
could almost win his weight bracket.  

Was this a recent time for him?
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: spit@austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Originator: spit@hookipa.austin.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:40:10 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin


Thanks to everyone who replied for all the advice!

I ran 24 miles on Saturday and didn't even come close to bonking!
I carbo-loaded the night before:  tortillas, beans, rice, and bananas.
The morning of the run, I drank a generous glass of juice and hit
the trail.  During my run, I only drank water.  I wasn't even that
hungry after the run!

Now another question...  I'm following Galloway's marathon schedule
for a 3:30 marathon (hey, it's my first!)  He doesn't give any in-
dication of what pace to set on the long slow runs.  My goal pace
is 8 minutes/mile, and I was running between 9 and 10 minutes/mile
on my long run.  Is that okay?  My speed training's going fine, but
I'm still worried about overdoing it on race day and bonking at the
20 mile mark :^(  What are y'all's experiences with putting the 
speed and distance training together on race day?
-- 
* ------------------------------------------------------------------- *
* Views expressed herein are entirely my own; any resemblance between *
* these views and those of my employer is purely coincidental.        *
* ------------------------------------------------------------------- *
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Fun with a truck
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:06:38 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

jfjr@mbunix.mitre.org (Freedman) writes:
> In article <2691@grivel.une.edu.au> tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au (tarmstro) writes:
> >In response to the original post: Here in Aussie we have a rule:
> >`Any bigger and/or moving faster than you has right of way'. I guess 
> >I'm getting mellow in my old age, but I figure I'd rather be alive/uninjured
> >and lose my macho pride than take on a truck, even when I'm in the right!
> >
> 
>   I thought I would add my two cents - a very experienced runner told
> me never to run on a Friday evening. I thought he was nuts until I was
> chased by a drunk in a pick-up. Friday is payday and the yahoos go for
> a couple or ten brews and then go runner-bashing
> 
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tmc@barnyard.syr.edu (Terry R. McConnell)
Subject: Do we age in spurts?
Summary: Request for information and opinions
Keywords: Athletic performance, aging
Reply-To: tmc@barnyard.syr.edu
Organization: Syracuse University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 12:38:01 EST


Tables and charts illustrating the decline in athletic
performance with age always leave me with the impression that
aging is a smooth, gradual, and quite predictable process. On the
other hand, considerable anecdotal experience gained by observing
my running buddies and myself suggests just the opposite -- that
one ages in "spurts," with long periods of almost imperceptible
decline punctuated by sudden unmistakable dips in performance.
The mechanism often is some kind of layoff, caused perhaps by
illness or injury, after which one never quite returns to the
previous level.

Now mind you, almost all of my evidence comes from listening to
the whining that goes on before workouts and before and after
races; nevertheless, the phenomenon _could_ be real and still be
missed by the averaging processes used to produce most charts and
tables. If different individual's "dips" tended to happen at
different times (i.e., at random), then these would
get averaged out when many different people's performance records
were included. Ironically, the carefully assembled data could
give a very misleading impression.

Surely there are statistical tests designed to settle this
question. Does anyone know of any published studies? Can others
confirm or deny this phenomenon with their own anecdotal
evidence? (If there are a number of responses by email I will
summarize for the net.)

-- 
************************************************************************
Terry McConnell       Mathematics/215 Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150
mcconnel@rodan.acs.syr.edu                NeXTmail: tmc@barnyard.syr.edu
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock)
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:52:36 GMT

m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:

>How great do you expect someone to get, who jogs to McDonalds?

Well, didn't he go to McD's for a cup of coffee?

Just because he ran a 7:50 pace for 5K in a recent race doesn't mean he's
not capable of running faster. Is the press getting on the guy's case
already or what?

If I had just been elected president I'd probably start taking it a bit
easier in my 5K races -- maybe Clinton is doing just that?

Plus, as already stated, 7:50/mile sure beats the heck out of what most
people his age could run for 5K! It's actually far from 'mediocre'. It's
great to have presidents who jog. Now if we could only replace Arnold "The
Terminator" with George Sheehan! (Although I do like Arnold in his way too.)

Mark Sandrock
-- 
Univ of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	  'The measure of mental health
Chemical Sciences Computing Services	  is the disposition to find good
505 S. Mathews Ave./Urbana, IL 61801	  everywhere.'
Email: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu		       -RWE