HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s5170748@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (THAN LEE)
Subject: Re: Trivia: Strikeouts, Career & Season
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:32:00 GMT

In article <92102.013700DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes...
>We had a few trivia questions about homers during a player's career
>and season, so I thought I'd post a similar one on Ks.
> 
>There are 6 pitchers who have more than 2,000 career strikeouts, but
>never struck out 200 or more in any one season.  Name them>

  Did anyone ever answer this question?  I'll take Hoyt Wilhelm, Early Wynn,
  Tommy John, Warren Spahn, Don Sutton, and Catfish Hunter.

> 
>Bonus Questions:  There is one pitcher with more than 2,000 career Ks,
>who did strike out 200 exactly one year, and that was his top year.  Who
>is he?

  Jerry Koosman, of course.

> 
>There is one pitcher with more than 2,000 career Ks who once struck out
>more than 300 batter in one season, but never again exceeded 200.  Who is he?
> 

  Someone else already answered this:  Vida Blue

Than Lee
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Errors (was Re: Robinson and Boyer)
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:55:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.233104.7386@m.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>Here's a legitimate use of errors:
>
>Calculating ERAs.

Indeed.  On the other hand, most sabermetricians today consider ERA to
be *distorted* by the scoring rules; many, incl. Bill James in the
Historical Abstract, give RA instead.  Allowing the pitcher to get away
with whatever goes awry after a certain error is made is bogus.

>Here is a (fictitious) situation in which error totals actually tell 
>you something about the fielders:

>		Inn	Chnces	Errors
>Murphy, RF	700	700	  2
>Lucy,   RF	700	700	100

>Assuming ballpark effects, L/R effects, and equivalent leagues :->, we
>can tell that we have two outfielders with equivalent range, but one
>is a lot better than the other.

True enough, but we could see that from the PO and A totals.  There
would be a difference of 98.

And "Chances" is the sum of PO, A, and E, so those numbers must be
around somewhere.

>Of course, if these are the ONLY statistics available you need new
>statisticians.

If these are the only statistics available to us, why should we assume
that all the other stuff above is equal?

Roger
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bucs after 6
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:03:57 GMT
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I'd say the Pirates have had a good start.  I am a little concerned
about the lack of hitting, but that should turn around.  4-2 is good.

Zane Smith is the man.  16 innings 3 runs.  Randy Tomlin looked good in
his first start and Drabek was awesome in his first start and threw the
ball well in the loss at Philly.  The Pirates just played a sloppy game
behind him.  Has a team ever had 3 different 20 game winners in 3
consecutive seasons?  The Pirates could if Zane wins 20 this year.

Lloyd McClendon has to be in the lineup every time the Pirates face a lefty.

What more can you say about Barry Bonds?  Unbelievable.  He may be the
closest thing to a triple crown threat in the NL.

Jeff King's days may be numbered.  If McClendon doesn't bump him out of
a platoon with Merced, Kevin Young will.  Speaking of Young, 3 hits in
the opener and a 3 run dinger in the second game.  How long is he going
to stay in the minors?  My guess is once this year can't count for
arbitration and free agency, he will be called up.  When that happens,
what is going to happen?  Do the Pirates trade King?  or Beuchele?  The
Pirates are in a spot.  If Young continues to tear up AAA, someone has
to go.  I don't think they can trade Boo Boo because he just signed a
free agent contract.  This is unfortunate because playing Young at first
has 2 big problems:  1) You are not playing him at the rightmost
position on the defensive spectrum or his natural position and 2) first
base is a great position for the Pirates to play their bench players. 
Lloyd the lefty killer, Merced, King, Redus, and even Varsho can all
play first base.  If Young plays first, then you make a total logjam in
right field of Merced, Mac, Gibson, Varsho, Redus, et all while Boo Boo
plays every day at third.  This makes King a utility infielder or trade
bait.

I would try to work out a deal with the Cubs for Boo Boo and if that
doesn't work, King.  The guy I would try to get is Chuck McElroy and if
that doesn't work, any good prospect they have.

Next. I would try to trade Lind to Baltimore for Arthur Rhodes and if
that doesn't work, any decent prospect.  Garcia takes over at second.  I
don't think you lose anything and save $2 million.  Lind is an offensive
black hole.

The Pirates have been pretty good at getting pitchers to the majors
(Tomlin, Belinda), but outside of Bonds, have been a little slow with
position players.  I hope they don't try to make Young rot at AAA so
they don't have to protect him in the expansion draft or to save face in
the Boo Boo boo-boo.

As it stands, I would leave Beuchele and Lind unprotected in the
expansion draft.  This free 2 spots to protect younger players, gives
Garcia and Young a chance to play and save 4.5 million a year at least.
From: ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Interleague-play, anyone??
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:18:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: CUNYVM.92097.151845ALWHC
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In the latest Sports Illustrated baseball issue, there is an interesting
article on ways to improve the game. One of the suggestions was interleague
play. IMHO, it may not be a bad idea. For one thing it would put an end to
this debate of the N.L vs A.L because we really would be seeing how they play
against each other. There would also be more "superstar matchups" that you
don't quite see or see very little of in the All-Star game. You would be able

to see two teams in the same city/state/area play each other (White Sox-Cubs,
Yanks-Mets, Royals-Cards, etc.) and the rivalry would be good for baseball,the
fans wouldn't have to wait for the year that BOTH teams are good enough for the

Series.You can see how Al hitters fare vs. NL pitching, what an Nl hitter woul

do in an AL stadium etc.,etc, etc...the possibilities are endless.
The only thing about it is that it might take away from the World Series.
I would just like to throw this idea out to everyone. Is it a good idea or a
bad one?



Al
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dougp@romeo.caltech.edu (Peterson, Douglas)
Subject: Re: Yankees what to do.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:54:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.232824.12435@mercury.cair.du.edu>, baxtman@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Captain Chaos) writes...
>I really miss Alvaro Espinoza.  Hahahahahahahh.  Sorry that was funny.
>Where is he anyway.

A friend of mine told me that the Indians signed him and he's playing
now at Colorado Springs.  I guess they want to dump Fermin (and his 
salary) and use Espy to back up Mark Lewis.
From: CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DUMB inexcusable play
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:57:26 GMT
Organization: Yale University

In article <steph.702864780@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu>
steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
 
>
>The announcers always make a big deal about how 3rd is the easiest base
>to steal.  Assuming Coleman has a 75% ratio overall, I would expect his
>3rd base % to be 10-15 pts higher.
>
     No, you've got it backwards.  If *announcers* say it's the easiest
base to steal, the working assumption must be that the percentages are
10-15% *lower*... :-)
 
Jeff
From: 190lentz@pop.qal.berkeley.edu (Greg Lentz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Thoughts on the Giants
Date: 17 Apr 1992 21:19:04 GMT
Organization: University of California Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pop.qal.berkeley.edu

I was in attendance at the Stick yesterday to watch Billy (Papa/New Daddy)
Swift beat the Padres almost completely by himself with two doubles in a
6-1 complete game.  He has won all the Giants games except for the 11-4
pasting in Atlanta, which was won by a middle reliever (name escapes me).
It is apparent that until Wilson returns, he is the only competent pitcher,
bullpen or otherwise, that the Giants have, unless someone wakes up and 
starts pitching well.  If it wasn't for Swift, the Mitchell trade would
look pretty bad right now (even though Mitchell hasn't woken up for the
Mariners).  Jackson hasn't impressed yet and although Burba pitched well
later in the previous day's game, he is pitching "well enough to lose" in
the classic tradition of Giants pitchers.  Plus Williams hasn't been
protecting Clark very well.  He needs to cut down on his swing, as do many
Giants, on a two strike count so that he can put the ball in play.

Which leads to a question...In yesterday's game, Williams actually DID make
contact with runners in scoring position and grounded into a double play,
scoring the runner from third.  He was not credited with an RBI.  Why is
this?  If he had squeezed him home or hit a sacrifice fly, he would have
gotten an RBI.  Why not on a groundout?

Greg
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hey, I'm a NICE Jays fan!
Keywords: Weenies
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:05:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In <1992Apr14.030724.23646@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (gut feelings...) writes:

>In <1992Apr13.203457.25363@watserv1.waterloo.edu> mwdwhite@watnow.waterloo.edu (Martin White) writes:

>don't worry, come october these fans will all find something sticking in
>their throats ... as in choke...

  Why will they "choke"? What reason do you have that they will choke? Because
in 1987 they did? Excuse me but every key contributer from the 1987 team is 
gone now except Key and Henke. Did they choke in 1989? No, they got beat by
one of the greatest teams of the last decade. Did they choke in 1991? No, they
held off the BoSox who were as close as 1/2 game late in the season to win the
title easily. Then they got beat by Minnesota, who had about the same talent as
Toronto did and happened to win a mere 95 games that year.
  So what's you're definition of "choke"? Why does someone have to win and      
someone have to choke every year? Can't someone just "lose"?       
  I've seen you're other BS posts here before, I'm not much in the mood for it
anymore...


				Gord Niguma
				(fav player: John Olerud)
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Least Valuable Players (career)
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:36:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Everyone loves to argue about MVP's, but I want to introduce a new concept:
the LVP.  The LVP is the player who costs your team the most just by being
in the lineup.  In order to avoid confusion (given that the very worst 
players never make it to the majors at all), we'll make this a cumulative
stat, so that a true LVP is LVP by virtue of being pathetic for long periods
of time.  

There are players who are good offensively and bad defensively, and get 
played because their offense is thought to outweigh their defense (which it
usually does).  And there are player who are rotten offensively but great
defensively, and they are played because it is thought that their defense
outweighs their lack of offense (which it often doesn't).  But there are 
also players who are rotten offensively *and* defensively, and yet play full-
time year after year.  These amazing players can rack up some truly awesome
negative career value stats.

In _Total_Baseball_, Thorn and Palmer attempt to measure hitting, fielding,
and baserunning in terms of runs above/below average for the team.  There is
some question as to exactly how accurate the defensive numbers are (not very,
is the consensus), but the offense and baserunning aren't too bad, and they'll
do as a basis for gross comparison.

Thus, we get Carney "Tree Stump" Lansford, who has been worth somewhere 
between 100 and 150 runs offensively in his career, but a whopping -211 
runs in the field (according to T&P), which is the worst I've yet found.
Or, Eddie Brinkman, whose 95 runs on defense go partway toward ameliorating
-287 runs at the plate and on the bases.

I've scanned about half of the _TB_ ratings, and come up with a few of the
all-time career LVP candidates.  I'll let you guess who the #1 player on the
list so far is.  (Numbers through 1990 season.)

Player			Batting		SB runs		Fielding	Total

???????????		 -269		  -22		  -32		-323

Tom Thevenow		 -297		   0		    9		-289

Granny Hamner		 -145		   0		 -138		-283

Joe Dugan		 -151		   ?		 -105		-256

Ivy Olson		 -216		   ?		  -32		-248

Julian Javier		 -182		   3		  -67		-246

Tim Foli		 -297		  -9		  70		-238

Felix Millan		 -103		  -6		 -128		-237

Rafael Ramirez		 -162		 -11		  -43		-216

Denny Doyle		 -138		 -13		  -60		-211

Roger Metzger		 -178		   3		  -35		-210


Dishonorable mention:  Frank DeMaestri, Chico Fernandez, Tito Fuentes, Chick
			Galloway, Damaso Garcia, Mario Guerrero, Hal Janvrin,
			Billy Martin, Eddie Brinkman, Dal Maxvill.


Any guesses on The Champion?


-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: The Mets Defense--How many runs? (was NL East( Smiley trade impact ))
Keywords: mets, defense, oxymoron?, runs, cost, fielding, stat-heads
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:31:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.233921.5478@cs.brown.edu> cs132107@cs.brown.edu (Michael Kalman) writes:
>    I know '86 was a long time ago, but the season was so
>memorable, and I think I remember it well.  IMHO, Backman
>had a career year with the bat *and* with the glove.  I 
>recall him making numerous sensational plays going to his 
>left, and having accurate arm.  His error total was ridiculously
>low, so he obviously made the routine play.  He wasn't all
>that good going to his right and throwing left, but I still
>think he was easily above average.

Not that errors mean anything, but I'd hardly call 17 errors in part-time
play a "ridiculously low" total.  Backman appeared in 113 games at second
base; project that to 145 games for comparison with the guy who made the
most errors at second that year (Juan Samuel, with 25), and you get 22.  

In a league that had Tommy Herr, Ryne Sandberg, Bill Doran, Ron Oester,
Robby Thompson, and Glenn Hubbard as everyday second basemen that year, I'd
find it hard to justify "easily above average" for Backman.  

>|> SS - Santana - Below Average
>     Was consistent and made all the routine plays. 

Making routine plays is less important than stopping lots of hits. 

>|> 3b - Knight - Probably Below Average
>    He didn't commit a single error until after the all-star
>break, if memory serves me well.  Yes, I know error totals
>can be misleading, but I still think that was awfully 
>impressive.

You know, I bet I could avoid making an error the entire season.  Just
don't try to field anything you're not sure of.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Trivia:  10 wins in last 9 seasons
Organization: Yale University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 22:08:31 EDT

In article <1992Apr13.231812.2238@newstand.syr.edu>
daweuste@rodan.acs.syr.edu (david a. weuste) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Apr8.222233.5322@cs.brown.edu> dsl@cs.brown.edu (Clyde Drexler) writes:
>>I'll guess Bruce Hurst and Mike Boddicker.
>
>How about Dave Stieb and Frank Tanana (cringe) ?
>
As I said in an earlier post, Hurst and Boddicker were right.  Stieb
missed in 1986 and 1991, Tanana in 1983 and 1990.
 
Jeff
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Cubs Win! Cubs Win! Cubs Win!
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:44:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.224824.18302@lmpsbbs.mot.com> stanm@comm.mot.com writes:
>SLG, OBP, and driving home men in scoring position. 
>If his RBI production were to
>go up, I guess that would then place 
>Grace among the elite offensive players. He
>already has the best glove in the NL 
>at first, so some offensive production wouldn't
>hurt, especially in the RBI dept.

That's a big if.  Cubs first basemen were dead last in the major leagues
in RBI production.  Grace has less power than every other starting first
baseman in the NL.

>I don't want to flame Nelson on this, but 
>how many times during the year does the 
>wind at Wrigley blow out? Not as often as you'd 
>think. Also, most of the hitters who love Wrigley 
>Field eat up Cubs pitching for lunch. Thus, it's better to be visiting
>Wrigley rather than making it your home, in some cases. 
>
>Somebody please back me up on this.

Can't back up what's not true.  If the hitters are merely "eating up
Cubs pitching for lunch," why did they hit six points higher and nearly
twice as many home runs at Wrigley then when they were playing at home
against the Cubs?  (And the Cubs, of course, score more than 20% more
runs at Wrigley than on the road -- more than twice the average.)
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cjwein@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Chris J. Wein)
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:57:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.213136.19361@midway.uchicago.edu> clmn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.210321.28874@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:
>>
>>     Now, Matt Young just tossed a no-hitter and lost, 2-1.  Lofton looks good
>>for the Tribe.  His walk and steal helped lead to the first run for the Tribe,
>>and Mark Lewis scored the second, after he and Lofton walked.
>
>Unfortunately, this was NOT a no-hitter under the new "improved" rules.  Since
>the home team (Indians) did not have to bat in the bottom of the ninth, Young
>only pitched eight innings.  Not enough to qualify as a no-hitter any more.
>

I also believe that the no-hitter fails to qualify since you must also win 
the game.  Andy Hawkins lost his no hitter because of this (he lost *4* to
1 on some brutal errors) and he pitched it at home and thus pitched 9 
innings.  Also note that Mark Gardner's `no hitter' over the Dodgers last
year was not a no hitter since he gave up a hit in the tenth inning.

Of course, you do have to draw the line somewhere.  Five inning no hitters
a la Pascual Perez and David Palmer just don't deserve it my books.

-- 
==============================================================================
 Chris Wein                           | cjwein@watcgl.waterloo.edu 
 Computer Graphics Lab, CS Dept.      | cjwein@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca
 University of Waterloo               | (519) 888-4548 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter)
Subject: Re: Sabo out
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:37:42 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <204641@unix.cis.pitt.edu> dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>In article <1992Apr08.132243.25673@eve.wright.edu> kstith@eve.wright.edu writes:
>>Bad news for the Reds....Sabo is going to be out 2 weeks with his
>>sprained ankle. They're probably going to put him on the disabled list
>
>Here's yet another bit of evidence in favor of Sherri Nichols's point from
>last year, that aggressive/hustling/fiery/etc. play is not necessarily a good
>thing, even on average.  Sabo has established himself as one of the premier
>players in the NL in combined offensive and defensive value, and has thrown
>all of that away by the unbelievably moronic mechanism of TRYING TO SLIDE INTO
>FIRST BASE FOR NO APPARENT REASON.  Real gritty; real dumb.  Lenny Dykstra's
>murophilia seems almost tame by comparison...

Chris said he did not slide on purpose - he slipped as he neared the bag.  Watch
the replay again closely if you get the chance - he appeared to duck slightly
for some reason, as if he thought the throw might hit him, and then seemed to
lose his footing.


>
>
>-- 
>          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
>     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
>  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
> medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ewk@kraken.micro.umn.edu (Eric Kimmel)
Subject: Re: Twins Choke
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis: Under Grad Workstation Lab.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:59:32 GMT

In <7458@orbit.cts.com> rsibet@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Rand Sibet) writes:

>henze@girtab.usc.edu (William Henze) writes:
>   
>>Bottom of the 9th Grand Slam to lose the game.  Brings back all
>>of those *fond* memories of my hero Ron Davis.  Guess the Twins
>>won't win all their games this year...
>>
>>Haven't seen a box score yet.  I hope Smiley did OK.  He didn't exactly
>>have a stellar spring.
>>       
>>Bill
>>Go Twins
>   
>Smiley did fine. The grand slam came after the Twins 5th error of the game,
>so all the runs were unearned. 

It was raining that day...

>The Twins saw the awesome power of the Ranger's bats tonight, however. 
>Erickson had a no-hitter into the fifth inning, and a 1-hitter into the
>sixth when Texas went nuts. We were leading 6-0 and ended up losing the
>game in the 10th inning. Tomorrow night Mahomes gets his turn at them.

Mahomes did Ok for his first start.  Shaky first inning, but did well
afterwards.  I can almost see every Ranger hitting 20 HRs this year.
Pretty scary...  At least the Twins are done with them for a while.
>    
>Inet: rsibet@pnet51.orb.mn.org  |
>Uucp: kksys!orbit!pnet51!rsibet |  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: golob@eng.umd.edu (Laurence Golob)
Subject: Elster to DL?????
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:01:13 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa

Does anybody know the Mets plans concerning Kevin Elster?  The
addition of Schofield coupled with Kevin's weak throw yesterday,
(attempting to turn a quick double play off of a bunt) indicates to me
that he is headed for the DL. Is Pecota headed to short (how is he
defensively), Magadan back to third and Schofield to a back-up roll,
or will they be content to give up some hits for a better glove?

Personally, I would rather see a shortstop who can field consistantly.

See you "opening day" at Camden Yards - 4/18/92 v. Tigers

Larry

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball