HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dew@ecl.psu.edu (Dur, Aga-Khan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Quiet Hours Enforcement
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:03:19 GMT
Organization: Orluk Oasis

Greetings!

Nicholas van Leyden writes:
 
 
>I may be mistaken, but I believe I read somewhere in the Pennsic
>information booklet that quiet hours began at midnight.  Obviously,
>if this was the case, it was not enforced.  No rule will be effective
>in maintaining quiet unless it is obeyed.

There was indeed a time that was specified (1 AM), which was observed by all 
who traveled with the "Pennsic Drum and Dance Corps" (aka the Orluk Oasis or 
Caravan of the Khan) this year.

If you did not avail yourself of the autocrat's staff (who would have probably 
enforced the rule if you had but asked), then you have no reason to complain 
about it now.

> 
>There was a designated "quiet end" of the camp at Steppes Warlord
>this year.  I'm not sure how much effect this had, but the camp did
>seem a bit quieter than the year before when the (by common reputation)
>loudest household set up tents right smack in the middle of camp.


The groups in our camping "zone" discussed revelry plans _before_ they 
happened...we even discussed the concept of a "block party" so that there 
would be a designated revel night.

The basic rules are simple--work things out with your neighbors.  It can 
prevent hard feelings and problems.  (And if you want _real_ peace and quite, 
stay home!)

Salam
-- 
Dale E. Walter     |Dur of Hidden Mountain          
dew@ecl.psu.edu    |Orluk Oasis on the War Road (of Aethelmarc)

"I'm the Baron!  Ya gotta loath me!"
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: kingdom finances (was: Pennsic Land Allocation)
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:41:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Hal Ravn writes:

>Another point was not addressed.  In the West--the kingdom gets the
>money over and above costs from all Kingdom Events.  

If the event loses money, who eats it -- the kingdom or the local group?

>I am givent o
>understand that this is not true everywhere--that in many kingdoms,
>the local group that hosts the event keeps the 'profit'.  

In the East, the kingdom gets half the profits and the local group gets
the other half.  If the event loses money, the local group has to eat it.
Also, by law the helm is passed at Crown, Coronation, and Twelfth Night, 
and all money collected goes to the kingdom.  (This is usually good for 
$200-300 a pop, in my experience.)

>In the West,
>the kingdom is reasonably well heeled--and the other branches have
>quite limited resources.  I presume that this pattern is reversed in
>those kingdoms that let the local group keep the extra money.  

I gather that most baronies in the East have a 4-figure bank account.  The
highest I've ever heard is around $6000.  At the other end, of course,
there are shires that can't afford the deposit for the site without effort.
At least in my area, big old groups help young little groups with things
like this.  The kingdom budget tends to hover around $10,000, I think,
about 20% of which pays for the annual publication of laws and policies
and about 20% of which pays for officer/royalty stipends.

>I am quite prepared to concede that the 'rich-Baronies-poor-Kingdom'
>model is probably more period--at least, early period.  But which
>works better as a practical matter here and now?

In my opinion, the larger a kingdom is in population or land mass, the harder 
it will be for a central administration to effectively manage the finances 
(or anything else) of the local groups.  In my opinion, most work should be 
done at the local level, and thus the money that is needed for that work 
should stay at the local level.  It's more efficient and the process is less
prone to negligence from above.  (But then, I'm a minarchist.)

Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Subject: Re: Prince of Thieves Wrongos
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 18:13:39 GMT


My favorite is the casting of the arrow heads. Only soft metals like lead and
tin can be melted over an open fire. Only soft metals can be cast in wooden 
moulds (elementary physics). While such arrow heads might penetrate skin or
leather they aill be ineffective against chain.

All of the evidence that I have seen points to the use of socketed arrowhead
which need to be forged rather than cast. Read 'Longbow'; the title might
be "The History of the Longbow" and the author might be Hardy if my memory is
accurate.

My Lady's favorite is the use of gold. Gold was not available in those
quantities, nor was it a monetary metal. Coins were silver. However, due
to the collection of Richards ransom (an ungodly amount of silver), there
was a severe shortage of even silver currency for many years. I do not know
what was used instead but it would not look like money to the intended
audience.

	Fiacha
	Aquaterra, AnTir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Town Battle at the War
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1992 20:20:58

 VJV> I would rather see some arrangement where the 
 VJV> marshals can keep an eye
 VJV> on the fighting without risking injury as in the Bridge Battle. Any
How about constructing towers, like unto the towers that lifeguards 
 use?  What with structures already being part of the battle, one 
 more should not create a problem.  There will be a bit of trouble  
 in constructing something sturdy enough, and yet portable and 
 take-downable, but it's a suggestion.
    The State Fair of Texas uses these towers, in conjunction with  
 foot patrols, to maintain peace.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth fM
         Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nexus@ylum.cgd.ucar.edu (Jeff Berry)
Subject: Re: Sitting on the fence (was Re: Pentacles/Consorts)
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:57:28 GMT

In article <betel.716224720@camelot> betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) writes:
>ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
>>  Admittedly, I'm a little confused about this.  I take it that you've got
>>big tourneys where everyone bashes each other about (stage fighting?  Cool!)
>>and the winner, male or female, gets to choose their consort for some
>>period of time.
>	Each kingdom (of which there are twelve) holds at least two
>Crown Tourneys every year. Entrants in the combat are those who have
>achieved knighthood (shown prowess in the martial arts and been
>educated as to courtly behavior) and those who the current Crown
>invites.

And, of course, in some Kingdoms, anyone who who wishes to enter.  In
the Outlands, any authorized fighter may submit a letter of intent and
compete.

>	Women are allowed to enter Crown Tourneys -- I believe there
>have even been Queens by Right of Arms. (Someone correct me if I'm
>wrong, please!)

	Duchess Rowan of Ansteorra was the first and only Queen by right of
arms, although I believe there were several Princesses by right of arms.  For
Ciarin, a Principality is a political entity smaller than a Kingdom and
governed by a Prince and Princess.




badger                                      Don Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne
Jeff Berry                                  Seneschal of Caer Galen, Outlands
               nexus@ncar.ucar.edu
NCAR doesn't tell me what to think, and I return the favor.
"You're a notch and I'm a legend"-------Alice Cooper
"You're still doing the things that I gave up years ago.."-----Lou Reed
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: History vs. dreams (Was: consort gender)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 01:10:22 -0500

Mikjal Annarbjorn (bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)) writeth:

 MA> In a previous article, rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen) says:

 HR> I think you should remember that the dreamers were there first.

 MA> Now, I could be wrong (I've only been in the SCA about 11 years), but...

Ditto.  Egads, has it been THAT long . . . .

 MA> The stories I've heard from a few folks who were there in the early
 MA> years (First Tourney, and all that), like Siegfried von Hochlichkeit
 MA> (sp?), Diana Listmaker, Frederick of Holland, et al, was that the idea
 MA> was to re-create the atmosphere of a High Middle Ages tournament,
 MA> complete with knights in (sort of) shining armor, damsels, minstrels,
 MA> etc.  Very much the romance of Mallory, Roland, the troubadors, and the
 MA> like.  The folks wanting to be elves, fairies, wizards, etc ad nauseum,
 MA> came a good bit later

The stories I've heard from at least one person who was there in the early
years, tho I don't think early enough for FT, is that there WERE elves at FT.

 MA> (and nobody much cared for them, but they were to
 MA> polite to tell them to go away).

This part however is entirely believable!  B-)

From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Inspiration (was Re: consort gender)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 21:59:28 -0500

Linda of the lakelands (lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy)) writeth:

 LL> I've had
 LL>  gentleman that I don't know walk up to me the eveing before a crown
 LL>  and ask if they could fight for me. Is it better to tactfully turn 
 LL> them down, or assume that they are, in fact, inspired by me, and let
 LL>  them fight. I would have problems with the latter, 
 LL> due to the oath of invocation where we swear to serve 
 LL> if we win. How do I know if I would 
 LL> be ABLE to serve with this person? Am I taking the whole thing too 
 LL> seriously?

No, I don't think you're taking it too seriously.  If your champion wins, you
will be in close proximity with him for many many hours during your reign; the
implications of letting strangers fight for you should thus be clear!  Your
query re being able to serve with this person is right on the mark.  IMHO, the
proper response would have been a polite declining - perhaps couched in a
suggestion that if you knew him better, you might allow him to.


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jerbil@ultra.com (Joseph Beckenbach {Adapter Software Release Engr})
Subject: Re: Taking on big jobs (was: Paying the Pennsic Autocrat)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:54:38 GMT

Unto Ellisif, Bertram, and the others here gathered
doth Joseph d'Aquitaine send greetings!

	Large jobs are meant to be administrative, such as Steward,
Laurel, and so on.  The only volunteers which should be acceptable for
such jobs, mind-breaking for one person, are those who can and DO assemble
a reasonably-sized staff and who consistently delegate what must be
delegated.  The easiest methods of training such volunteers are to set them
up as deputies for the office, or have them hold "smaller" offices which
require similar delegation.
	For example, Bruce Draconarius, currently Laurel Sovereign of Arms,
has already these things from his time as Crescent Principal Herald for
Caid, and also had time for consultation with his predecessor.

	The moral of the story is somewhat obvious:  if you're an officer,
get at least one deputy, so you can train a replacement for yourself or
another officer!  And, the more you learn about delegation and administration,
the more you can do in your current position, and the more you can offer in
your next position (be it higher or lower in the "hierarchy").

		Joseph
-- 
----
Joseph Beckenbach	jerbil@ultra.com	408-922-0600 x246
	(speaking from, but not for, Ultra Network Technologies)
Silliness forever, with a side of garlic slaw!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Pennsic: Lyme alert
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:40:36 GMT

One case of Lyme Disease has been confirmed from this past Pennsic.  (Oh,
*goodie*.)  Lyme is allegedly easy to treat, but if you ignore it you can
end up permanently disabled.  If you notice any of the following symptoms
and were at Pennsic or other camping events in that general part of the 
country, you should immediately go to your doctor and insist on a Lyme
test.  A lot of doctors apparently try to avoid doing the test because they
consider Lyme an unlikely cause of "common" symptoms; mine told me the 
soreness was tendonitis and the rash was nothing to worry about.  I insisted
on the blood test anyway.

The list of symptoms I got from my doctor today is: fatigue, stiff neck,
muscle or bone pain, fever, respiratory or gastrointestinal problems (sound
like the flu yet? :-) ), a rash, swelling, sore throat, and pink eye.  The
rash usually looks like concentric rings, alternating red and skin tone,
around the site of the bite.

You may not get most of these symptoms.  The only ones I've had so far are
the rash (lasted about 3 days) and soreness/stiffness in one hand and wrist.

Ellisif

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: leeu@nobeltech.se (Leif Euren)
Subject: Re: Viking Tents
Organization: NobelTech AB
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:08:33 GMT

Thora wrote:
  THE VIKING, the book so often said to be by Tre Tryckare, is
  actually edited by Bertil Almgren.  It was originally published by
  Tre Tryckare, Cagner & Co.

and the Siobhan wrote:
  ... Tre Tryckare is not a person!  It is a publishing house.

Not that this information carry any great weight, but the name means
"Three Printers". I'm absolutely sure of this.

  Herr Peder Klingrode                    | Leif Euren    Stockholm, Sweden
  Holmgard, Nordmark, Drachenwald, East   | leeu@nobeltech.se

    NOTE: All opinions are my own, even if my employer claims otherwise!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day)
Subject: Crown Tourney(was Re: Sitting on the fence (was Re: 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:09:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.181439.13323@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wils
on Heydt) writes:
>In article <betel.716224720@camelot> betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawfor
d) writes:
>>
>>   Each kingdom (of which there are twelve) holds at least two
>>Crown Tourneys every year. Entrants in the combat are those who have
>>achieved knighthood (shown prowess in the martial arts and been
>>educated as to courtly behavior) and those who the current Crown
>>invites.
>
>Details vary by kingdom.  This is a description of the most
>restrictive rules set.

The actual rule governing this is #3 of the Rules Of The List;
All combatants must be presented to, and be acceptable to, the Sovereign or his
representative.

Some Kingdoms use this to exclude only certain gentles from Crown, other 
Kingdoms use this as a basis for a restrictive Crown list. I would imagine
that most Kingdoms fall somewhere in the middle ground.
-- 
If the price that I must pay to obtain my *  Robert E. Day/Syr Otto von    *
freedom, is to acknowledge that the Gov-  *  Schwartzkatz, Shire Mugmort   *
ernmet was granted the power to infringe  *  Barony Middle Marches,        *
on them, then I am not free. Paul Anderson*  Middle Kingdom                *
From: Craig.Vaughan@p365.f342.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Vaughan)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Wicca and the SCA
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:24:28 GMT

pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:
> Considering the fact that the pentagram was not a pagan symbol
> during the middle ages it shouldn't cause a problem.

Indeed.  During the SCA's period, the pentagram was a *Christian* symbol, 
symbolizing the five wounds of Christ.

There's plenty of pagan armoury in the SCA.  There are, in fact, some 
examples that I didn't even recognize as armoury at first, since the pagan 
connotations are so strong (the arms of Duke Sir Talymar [Midrealm], for 
example).

Be creative.


Peace,

Arwen ferch Morgan (Amanda Walker)
Ponte Alto, Atlantia
-- 
"Duct tape is like the force: it has a light side, and a dark side, and
 it holds the universe together."
                --Carl Zwanzig
From: jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Western Crown List (was Re: Inspiration)
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:25:39 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

Greetings from John!

>Greetings from Arval!  Hal wrote something that caught my eye:
>
>> In the West, if you're a member and you're an authorized fighter, it
>> is almost a given that you fight in the Crown Lists. 
>
>An interesting statement: So far as I know, your Crown Tourney lists have
>only recently topped 100 fighters.  That's certainly large by any kingdom's
>standards, but think about your statement: Are there really only 100
>fighters in the West Kingdom?  

Yes, there are only 100 of us, but we're all REALLY GOOD.  Of course, that`s
why we lose so well at Caid/West, and have to sucker the An Tirians deep into
our territory to beat them...but fighter for fighter, we are the best.  I
reference Dorothea's excellent song, posted earlier.

In truth, I would say that Hal presents (as he is wont to do) the clearer
version of the facts, rather than the mudspattered truth.  I would phrase it
as there being no bars to it, and a shorter reign, and much to be gained,
it is common that all should fight in Crown who may.  But some of us are warjunkies,
and some have no membership, or no consort, or no wish to be part of the 
ruling class.  And some, of course, have been there too often.  But a 4 month
reign in a smaller kingdom (geographical central kingdom size: 12 hours total,
anywhere to anywhere) with an excellent support staff of officers, is much less
wearing.  And we may not remain at 100 fighters.

When I started fighting (qualified at the Crusade of the Leaf, still have my
war bond, right behind Maythen) I was told that when I was good enough to be
a threat in the lists, I should enter.  Social custom has changed since then,
and I think for the better.  In a way, the more fighters you have in that
list, the more endorsement from the general body of fighters, and the more
sure knowledge that your King can at least fight.

So, remember, there are only 100 of us, but we're all either Dukes or unknown
Viscounts or hot unbelts...or recent emigres from other kingdoms.

John Theophilous

To those who helped me with my foolish start: (Catrin! I got Chambers! Wow!) I 
swore (as Sir Tor) an oath of foolity to the Queen this weekend.  Much amusement
will follow.  My buffet was a bit unstandard...a fundamental change, as it were.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Subject: Re: Same-sex consorts--poss. solution
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:37:30 GMT

Greetings, good cousins!
I have a humble suggestion for the same-sex consort problem.
In order to maintain the authenticity of the both genders on the throne
_and_ the ideal of fighitng for the loved one, the fighter and his/her
chosen love would reign, but an MOS could be the
"dowager/male-equivlent-of-dowager" (is there a male
gender equivalent?  I believe that dowager means female, but could be wrong).

This dowager (let it stand as a term for now) would be an individual that
the two royals would choose together.  He/she would provide the gender
role model the way that the both gender system provides now.

Comments?  Better wording than "dowager"?  I considered regent, but that
has other implications, no?

Enid
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Wicca and the SCA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 21:22:54

 D> My original design for my arms, I will not bore you 
 D> with the blazon (if I
 D> could even remember it), centered around a rack of 
 D> stags horns and a 'plate',
 D> or full moon. It was refused for being to blatantly 
 D> 'Pagan'. I do not think
At which time, and at what level?  Kingdom or Laurel?
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: consort gender
Date: 5 Sep 92 17:14:47 GMT
Organization: Old, used cleric

In article <1992Sep5.005704.8573@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>As a witch I would like you to clarify just why you think the public
>associates "mass murder" with pentagrams? 

	Charles Manson.

	You may not be old enough to remember "helter skelter" clearly,
and to have been exposed to the flood of anti-pentacle literature that
was dumped on the market in the early '70s.  It waas truly amazing, the
level of paranoia . . . .

>but I have never seen a pentacle get the kind of negative reaction one
>has to a swastika. 

	Yup. I'll admit _you_ probaably never have seen that kind of
reaction -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Ever been in the
back country in Alabama, Georgia, or Mississippi -- or the deep Central
Valley of California, for that matter?  Things are _very_ different
there.

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: the same-sex and pentacles threads
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:10:55 GMT

The Middle Ages in Europe were a period notable for bigotry and prejudice.

A mediaevally-oriented club like the SCA seems an odd choice for people who
have a low tolerance for bigotry and prejudice.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sussman@socrates.umd.edu (Jeff Sussman)
Subject: Re: Inflammatory rhetoric (Period songs etc.)
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:09:09 GMT

Greetings!

	Arval posted a lot of good commentary on inflammatory rhetoric and
the conflict between adaptive and rigorous use of the medieval.  I agree with
his assessments and suggestions.  However, as one of the people who felt 
"stepped on" because of my different definition of the concept of period
(which seems to be a very emotionally loaded word) I will continue to play
devil's advocate.

	I am apalled at the intolerance that has lept forth on both sides of
this issue.  When putting forth an idea I was called a liar (which was
immediately retracted) and derided.  It should not be surprising that this sort
of reaction leads to terms such as authenticity police and worse.  

	I'd like to suggest a little more tolerance all around.  Remember,
E-mail attacks are much harsher than any other kind.

BTW: If the Auth. Police have cited me for several instances of "Improper
Use of the Term: Period" where do I pay the fines?  Is there an Auth. Judge
that I can appeal to?   :) :)

Richard	Fitzgilbert			Jeffrey Sussman
Storvik					Silver Spring
Atlantia				Maryland




Newsgroups: rec.org.sca