From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Date: 9 Jan 1993 10:07:35 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <3450013@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>
>I don't believe that name drops and fame by association has any
>value in debating technical differences.  However, just to give your
>contention some perspective, Lemond, who is often mentioned as a
>better than average descender rode locally with some of the guys to
>the coast going up Kings Mountain and down Tunitas Creek Rd.  After
>waiting at the top for the "slow" hosts, he promptly was off the
>back after the first turn.  It isn't like he doesn't know these
>roads either because he won some races on them. Great bike racers
>are not necessarily fast descenders.

Oh, brother!  I was waiting for this one.  Geez, Jobst has now gone
so far as claiming to be faster than LeMond because LeMond got dropped
on a descent that he did a few times back in the 70's(yes, the last
time LeMond raced on these roads was the in the 1970's..which for those
of you that are slow at math is over 13 years ago).  If someone can
remember a descent for 13 years well enough to negate the advantage of
someone who does the same descent possibly 25 time a year than he
truly is remarkable!!!

Another factor that you fail to consider is that maybe LeMond doesn't
give a hoot if he gets dropped in the first turn.  LeMond makes
$2 million a year racing his bike and has won 3 Tours de France and
3 World Championships.  He 1) has nothing to prove to this group
of riders and 2) has everything to lose if he were to get injured
doing something stupid(remember the turkey hunting incident).

Most pros take the attitude that "it only counts when the numbers
are on the back", the fact that you would use the outcome of a
training ride as some sort of proof is really ludicrous.

Jobst, you should be ashamed of yourself for stretching the limits sooooooo
far to try and make a point that is so ridiculous.  Of course, Jobst will
rebutt and say(just as he does with max speed claims) that he is not
claiming to be a better descender than LeMond, but he has made that remark
to people in public so I think it applies.

I am truly amazed that someone would even begin to compare themselves to
professional racers.  There are so many factors involved in professional
racing that it is a joke to try and make some comparison to riding anywhere
but inside the pro peleton at a pro race.

Bruce

ps - in 1991 I joined Team Motorola for a ride at their Santa Rosa training
camp.  On the climb of Ida Clayton Road(5 mi., 8%), I rode along side Phil
Anderson (who 1 month later won 5 races) and we dropped Mike Carter(winner
of the King of the Mountains jersey at the Tour of Switzerland).  Forget the
fact that Mike Carter had a 103 degree temperature and was suffering from the
flu, like, I dropped him, man!  I spent the next 6 weeks waiting for the pro
contract that never arrived.  Is life unfair or what!!!!!-:) -:) -:) -:)

Using the now infamous "Jobst logic", I rightly deserved a place on Team
Motorola!   I guess I just have to be satisfied knowing that when the Tour
de France happens every year that I could be the one parting the crowds
on the major climbs!!!-:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:) -:)
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:29:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Team Motorola will Race on Clinchers in 1993
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA