HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: RGUSTAVSON@ocs.dir.texas.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: oops...ogy, and a
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:08:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: ocs.921001090802.9f0
Organization: The Internet


          
     
Most kind and considerate Brothers and Sisters; 
Woe unto me, for once again my pride has shown me for the fool that I truly
am!  I pray you, forgive me my conceit and ignorance; for Mallory is not
Mallory, but Malory.  My humblest apologies...
     
Here's one for you: What, where, to whom, when and in what conflict was
the first castle in GB to fall to cannon fire?  I came upon this bit last night. 
(to my understanding, it is "within period")  I'll provide the reference with the
answer.  
I "ass-u-me" that SOMEONE will take up this challenge!  <[ : ) 
     
For now, I assure you, I hold you all in the highest regard.  Until again we
meet, I shall  remain in your service, a humble servant of God and Crown.
     
                         Robin
From: dmb@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period terminology
Date: 2 Oct 1992 00:13:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Greetings unto the Rialto from Thomas Brownwell in Calafia

I found myself pondering much the same question voiced by
milord Bill concerning the word 'autocrat':

: 
: I'm not sure what the "correct" word is, but someone with ready access
: to period sources would undoubtedly be able to find period names for
: "someone who organizes festivities".
: 

Would it be correct to refer to such a person as 'steward'
(with apologies to Mistress Hilary)?  The word 'castellan'
also comes to mind as one who is in charge of the daily
maintenance of a castle.  Any other words?


Douglas M. Brownell                     |  Thomas Brownwell
Physics Grad Student                    |  College of St Artemis &
                                        |     Canton of Summergate
                                        |  Barony of Calafia
Just one o' the Gouttes....             |  Kingdom of Caid
(thick Slavic accent)                   |
" For Goutheim e-mail                   |
         <dmb@jacobi.ucsd.edu>          |  Fieldless, a Goutte barry
    or   <dbrownell@ucsd.edu> "         |  wavy Azure & Argent
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose)
Subject: Re: Term limits for barons
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:05:04 GMT

In article <717841718.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Riki.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Stein) writes:
>While I fully appreciate the need for calm, rational discussion on this
>subject, I cannot contemplate the idea of term limits for barons without the 
>utmost shock and dismay. 

  I have to concur with this posting.  While I have heard that those in the
distant kingdoms that sprung from Atenveldt regularly change barons, in the
Middle (and, it appears, the East), individual barons and baronesses are an 
important part of the life of the barony.  Northwoods has been in existence for
27 years, and has had one baron (Thorvald im Grimmi) during that time.  When a
proposal to redefine the role of the Baron in the Midrealm was proposed, people
who are normally rational and calm began talking about revolting.  Neighboring
baronies and barons have similarly strong ties to their people, and it would
be impossible to break those ties, even if there was a benefit to be gained.
  I have another question about the baronage.  Is the baron's service to the
Crown or the people of the barony more important, and how is this to be
determined?  This question obviously has practical implications, and I it is
one that is never really addressed in law.

		Alan Fairfax Aluricson, Fenris Herald
		Canton of the Riding of Hawkland Moor
		Barony of Northwoods, Midrealm
		atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		**Magnitudo Vocis**
From: glenn@moeng2.morgan.edu (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Homoerotic poetry (Welsh)
Date: 30 Sep 1992 13:06:05 -0500
Organization: The Space-Time Fabrication Institute, Rockville, MD.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <3488@creatures.cs.vt.edu> jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu writes a
nice (though somewhat rambling (as though I am in a position to
criticize "rambling")) explanation of the difference between sexual 
orientation and gender identity (thus saving me the trouble), then
continues:

>I'm delighted to see the poem, since I had not thought that
>this kind of reflection was particularly part of 16th C
>welsh consciousness, and it is interesting to see how wrong
>I would have been in guessing.  But I don't think it's 
>homoerotic.

I too was surprised and delighted to see that poem!  And I agree
that it didn't strike me as homoerotic, at least on first reading.

If anyone stumbles across any other period mention of transvestism,
I would be most interested in hearing about it.  



-- 
D. Glenn Arthur Jr., The Human Vibrator, glenn@bessel.umd.edu
"Being a _man_ means knowing that one has a choice not to act like a 'man'."

How much interest is there in a Transvestite/Transsexual newsgroup?  How many 
would post there?   Anonymously?  How many would _vote_ non-anonymously?  And
what would you name it?  

You can send me mail anonymously at anonymus+262@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc@news.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin Connery)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:07:22 GMT

Carolus Malvoix
In article <92Oct02.140843.17777@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca 
Carolus Malvoix (humorous iconoclast) wrote:
>
>     Yep, looking good on the field is the second most important
>     responsibility of a fighter;-) Fighting well being the
>     first.

Hmm. I'd count it as:

  1)  Courteous
  2)  Not unsafe
  3)  Period appearance
  4)  Fighting well.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Keradwc

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Keradwc an Cai     |       Adfui, Feci        |  In the Mists of the West |
 |--------------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|
 | Kevin Connery      | Quality must be designed |   Speaking FROM, not FOR: |
 |                    | into software; it cannot |   Integrated Systems, Inc |
 | kconnery@isi.com   | be patched on afterwards |           Santa Clara, CA |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Infant Wear
Date: 28 Sep 1992 18:37:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <MelIx7_00WB4EBwM1k@andrew.cmu.edu> David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>        Swaddling bands, what else? It's period, and it's supposed to keep
>>them quiet :^)

It did mine-- see previous posting.

>
>So -- how do you _change_ babies in swaddling bands... ?

Unwrap, change, re-wrap (in different swaddling bands if the previous
set got wet).


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Rules of War
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:59:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.174604.6644@vela.acs.oakland.edu> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Montgomery J. Moose) writes:

>  I am looking for a period book that gives the "rules of war" during the 
>period when the chivalric ideal was being espoused in Western Europe.  (I have
>to write a 20-page paper on a primary source of medieval history...)  My
>professor was able to suggest only a book called "the _Tree of Battle_ or some
>such..."

Honore Bonet's _Tree of Battles_ is one of the classic works on chivalry, with
Ramon Lull's _Order of Chivalry_ being nearly as prominent, and Christine de
Pisan's _L'Art de Chevalerie_ is up there too.  However, there is a clear
distinction between such philosophical works and the rules which governed real
armies in the field.  Philippe Contamine's discussion of codifications of the
chivalric ideal for the purposes of field armies discusses both phenomena
in pp. 284-292 of _War in the Middle Ages_ (Oxford:  Blackwell, 1985, Michael
Jones, trans.).  Contamine cites English and Imperial statutes which might
qualify as your prof's idea of an appropriate primary source.

Aryk Nusbacher
(who wishes he'd thought of this instead of writing _his_ 20-page primary
source analysis on Walter Map)
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: haslock@rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Subject: Was - Re: Barons and their removal; Is - Irish History
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 19:58:37 GMT


Angharad made a few comments about and asked a few questions about 'righ',
what I call irish barons.

1. Question. Did Ireland have a feudal society? I just checked the
   definition of feudalism in Webster and by that definition, Ireland was
   feudal. Land was owned by the noble class. There was a class of people
   bound to the land. The unfree class were required to serve the noble
   landowner in a variety of ways.

   There are significant differences between Irish and Norman feudalism.
   There was a significant freeman class in Ireland. The ri did not own
   the land of the tuath. Also, while a group of ri might agree to a leader
   from among their number and swear to supply tribute and support to this
   leader, the leader still did not own any more land.

   The definition of feudalism is loose enough that I can claim that it
   fits but Irish society was very different from Norman society, feudal
   or not.

2. Statement. Irish political organization did not survive the Norman 
   conquest in 1171. I thought the 1171 was the first landing and that 
   the 'conquest' started in 1175, but that is a quibble. The truth is
   that the 'conquest' may have disrupted Irish politics but it did not
   conquer all or even most of Ireland. Within 50 years the lands more than
   50 miles from Dublin were following Brehon (Irish) Law more than they
   were English Law. The Normans who survived beyond the Pale became
   reknowned for being more Irish than the Irish.

   I will not assert that all ri appointed beyond the Pale were appointed 
   in the traditional manner. Post Norman Ireland is not my area of study.

3. Recommended Reading. _Early Christian Ireland_ by Maire and Liam de Paor
   describes the structure of society before the Viking. High Kings and Irish
   Kings by Francis John Byrne covers the subject but is more a history of the
   various kings who lead to the concept of a High King, and thus precipitated
   the Norman Conquest.

4. Data to support the opposition. Long before the Norman Conquest, the
   O'Neills started imposing ri on subject tuath. Thus not all ri were
   elected. By the time of the Norman conquest, appointed heads of tuatha were
   well known if not common. Such appointees were not known as ri (I think
   they were known as tigane but I need to confirm that).



		Fiacha
		Aquaterra, AnTir


Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:36:25 -0400 
From: Nils Hammer <nh0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: membership

  You know, these proposed new membership rules could be
a good incentive for some folks, to DROP their membership.
Sice there are people who don't care for awards and the
attendant psycho-social goings on they entail this would be
a simple way to get away from it all.

  I have at least one friend who makes a point of not being
a paid member, but I am not certain what percieved insult
was behind it, perhaps I should ask.

  Requiring membership to fight sounds like a lot more work
for the list officers. (can you tell I want to fight, but
don't want to worry about paperwork?) When I can't find
my authorization card there are any number of Knights,
masters, listmistresses, and marshals I know who can vouch
for me at a local event. I don't know anything like that
for membership.

  I really would prefer to have the membership payment and
administration to be done locally. In other clubs I am
a member in it makes it much more convenient, faster, more
personal, etc.

Nils K. Hammer
nh0g@andrew.cmu.edu
From: Joanna.Guldi@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joanna Guldi)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: S.C.A. Books, Cardweaving
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:13:28

 DH> A while ago I posted looking for Cardweavers. I had quite a few
 DH> enthusiastic replies and in order to share the experience and expertise, I
 DH> opened a small mailing list. We don't have a whole lot of traffic but what
 DH> there is is interesting and generally useful. Lately we've been talking

Hello! I'm new to this section of my BBS, but I was reading along, and saw
"Cardweaving" in the subject list. I am a cardweaver from Steppes, Ansteorra.
I've been weaving for about a year now, crazy enough to attempt the infamous
lettering, and to do a little sewing thread. I'll be eager to hear whatever
anyone is saying here on cardweaving! (please talk!)

Fiore Pescara


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Jousting in Stockholm
Date: 26 Sep 92 14:07:57
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: cav@bnr.ca's message of Fri, 25 Sep 92 12:24:29 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie!

Balderik writes:

>... I posted regarding the jousting in Stockholm.
>I'm afraid the crowd was too thick for me to get a close look at
>the helms used by the 'knights'.  If they were indeed plastic,
>they are quite well made since from my vantage they looked to be
>made of metal (and I've got two barrel helms on my bench right
>now).  The Italian team's helms appeared to be made of brass
>(which I thought was kind of crass), but I guess they must have
>been plastic painted with 'gold' paint instead of than black.

Well, I haven't actually checked out any helms except the ones
used by the Swedish team. They are indeed plastic, but extremely
well-made; without actually touching them, it's nearly impossible
to know they are not steel.

I am uncertain of who actually won the Stockholm joust, but I would
place a bet on the Italians who performed very well in Uppsala the
week before. The Swedish team consists to 90 percent of young women
and have much less experience than any of the others.

The most irritating feature of the joust at Uppsala was the booming
loudspeaker voice that shouted "O-Vaga, Attack!!!" every 30 seconds
or so. Definitely ruined the medieval feel.

William
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pentacles - "technical" question
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:07:30 GMT
Organization: Old, used cleric

In article <CANTON.92Sep29210202@robinson.ilog.fr> canton@robinson.ilog.fr (Eric Canton) writes:
>I have heard that upward pentacles symbolised the spirit, whereas downward
>ones were evil.
>
>Is this distinction :
> - real in christian/jewish/pagan symbolisms ?
> - real IN PERIOD in ... symbolisms ?

	In short, No and No.

	Pentacles as symbols for paganism are XXth Century, and late 20th
Century at that -- after the Gardnerian movement of the 1950s (which
sprang up after the English repealed the Witchcraft laws in 1951 or so.
	Pentacles as symbols of occult power go back a century or so
farther, to the middle of the 19th Century -- see the works of "Eliphas
Levy" in French -- the are probably available in the Editions de Poche
series, and will certainly be available in used bookstores of the
theosophical sort . . .
	The reversed pentacle (often with a goat's head in it) as a
symbol for "evil", I suspect to be an invention of Aleister Crowley (187?
- 1947?).  It got its widespread reputation as "THE" symbol for evil in
the late 60s and 70s, due mainly to the "anti-witchcraft" propaganda of
the religious far right . . .

	In period, it would probably have symbolized the 5  wounds of
Christ -- documentation of the pentacle is fairly scarce.  As for being
part of an ironwork screen in the Sainte Chapelle (?yes?) -- it is a
particularly easy geometrical piece to construct, and I suspect, an
ironworker could not resist the temptation.
	If you look carefully at the decorations in Mediaeval churches,
especially at mosaics, you will also find swastikas -- again, and easy
geometrical form to create, and without negative assumptions in those
days . . .


-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: moonman@camelot.bradley.edu (Craig Levin)
Subject: Re: Feet Voting
Organization: House of the Moss Rose
Date:  1 Oct 92 15:56:21 GMT

Greetings to all on the Rialto, and especially unto Lord Tadhg, who
writes upon my poor commentary, saying:

> CL>      IMO, households form a useful part of the SCA. Newcomers are
> CL> brought into our group, receive literature and tons of encouragement
> CL> to join in the fun from us, buy fabric and have their garb made by my
> CL> lady, our seamstress. Later, they go to events, with one of us sort of
> CL> escorting them around to explain things they don't understand, and eat
> CL> with us, as sort of one big supportive family.

> Gee, my Barony does that as a whole, without any households getting
> involved.... 8-)

	Perhaps the situation is different where I am. The household
arose as a group of Bradley University people, both students and
staff, became interested in the SCA. Since the local barony, Illiton,
did not meet near Bradley, though many of its members live near there,
we thought it better if the people interested in the SCA at Bradley
could meet together without getting into a turf war with Illiton,
since most people there are really nice people. So the household was
formed.

	As time went by, friends of the people of the household became
interested in SCA, and we brought them in, and those people have
friends, and so on. We have never claimed to control politics in
Illiton, and I doubt we will, since our population will change as
people graduate or get removed from their positions at Bradley, etc..
It's just that it's more convenient for us to do these things with our
friends as a household than have the people of the barony do it.

Su Servidor,

Pedro de Alcazar

>    Tadhg, Obelisk

> * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
--
Meekness is uncommon patience in planning a worthwhile revenge. 
                                   -Ardjukk Afraid-of-His-Cats 
 
Craig Levin/Pedro de Alcazar, Illiton, MKdm moonman@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 14:20:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Oct1.161545.29342@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <17741@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> helm@jade.ucdavis.edu writes:
>>From all the responses I've seen to my original post, I'm beginning
>>to think that my definition of what constitutes "good looking on the
>>field" is damn close to "as much like a period illumination as possible."
>>Mea Culpa!
>
>Nothing to be ashamed of...  Why do you think I'm trying to figure out
>how to wear mail and have decent (critical) protection, too?  And have
>a helm that looks appropriate?  (I'm considering the Vendel style and
>hiding a removable grill under the high camail...)  Indeed--I'd like
>to make it all so that one can take the purely SCA-protective parts
>off and have something one can use at demos that is really appropriate
>for early period...

How about islamic armour of one sort or another? The mamelukes
wore hauburks of mail with plates of metal linked onto breast 
and back (big disks, essentially), pointy helms with camails
so high that they needed to cut eyeholes into them.

"Arms and Armour of The Medieval Knight" has at least one good
picture, and that seems to be an ubiquitous book in SCA libraries
across my kingdom.

I am fairly sure that the vendel helm predates the use of
hauburks in norse technology. I recall they were pretty
primitively armed until the viking period.

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James)
Subject: Re: Banishment
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:50:18 GMT

In article <717588108.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Richard.Tucker@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Tucker) writes:
)re: The Witch Hunt
 
)I was there, it was a kangaroo kourt, John and Willow bit the bullet for the
)Kingdom.  Try to understand; some people in Ansteorra play the Game for real. 
)There's nothing you can do to cure this mental abberation, you just have to
)either humor them or stay out of their way politically.
 
	Also note that John and Willow are still around and active.  And their
detractors???

Kwellend-Njal

-- 
Vnend, Lottery winner #316                 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.  
vnend@princeton.edu, vnend@pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend        
        Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend@ms.uky.edu                          
              "Exploding food is both messy and dangerous."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Linen and wool
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 03:19:14 GMT

In article <mary.717964891@ossi.com>, mary@ossi.com (Mary Seabrook) writes:
>[...] , I was amazed at some of the lace exhibit at the Victoria and
>Albert (london) and it is impossible to make by machine the threads which were
>had spun in period, mostly from flax.

It is because flax is harder for machines to handle (especially during the
early industrial revolution) that cotton became the predominant fibre
for light cloth. Prior to automation cotton could not compete very well,
because most rural housholds would have a small flax patch and plenty
of time to supplement their income by spinning.
 
>Elizabeth
>--
>mary@ossi.com
>+1 510 652 6200 x 124

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit.
From: sleibowitz@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Help with a surname.
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:40:28 GMT

I'm a newbie to the SCA, still working on my persona and society name for 
submission to the College of Arms.  Unfortunately, I have been unable to
document actual use of my propsed surname, "Kestrel".  The kestrel is a small
bird of prey commonly found on moors, coasts, open woodlands, and farm-lands.
Therefore, it should probably be relatively common to my persona's place of
birth and period (Wales, 1100 AD).  Can anyone help me to document use of this 
name, or give reasons why it wouldn't be unusual?  If it is an inappropriate
name, could some kind gentle point it out so I could stop pressing a futile 
point?  E-Mail replies welcome.

					Your humble servant,
					    Smiling Wolf
						aka
				      Jonathan Josua Kestrel

sleibowitz@hamp.hampshire.edu
"I saw it again this evening:
 black sails in a pale yellow sky."
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca