From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Hunters: Legitimate concern?
Organization: WP Group
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:47:32 GMT

In article <rxpx+0p@rpi.edu>, John S. Van Etten writes:
jve> Cute.  I said we should save *endangered* whales and that the abundant
jve> ones were "just food."  I trust the bio people to tell me which ones
jve> are endangered and which ones aren't.  I have no problem with our
jve> friends across the Pacific killing non-endangered ones for food.

Russell Lawrence writes:
rl> Your position still doesn't make much sense to me.
rl> 
rl> You seem to be admitting that you're not a friend of whales that 
rl> belong to species with high populations, but you are a friend of 
rl> whales that belong to endangered species.  If that's the case, 
rl> please answer the question that I posed previously:  Do whales 
rl> that are endangered feel more fear, more pain, more social deprivation, 
rl> etc, etc, when they're hunted down by human beings than whales
rl> that are not endangered might feel in similar circumstances?  

From article <-fsx2md@rpi.edu>, by vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten):
jve> No.  But I thought that you knew that none of these criteria bother me
jve> if a human needs food.  Unless the animal is endangered (in which case
jve> they still don't bother me) where my decision to save them is based on
jve> entirely different criteria which I've painfully detailed before. :-)

Would you mind reposting the criteria that you claim to have posted
previously?

In addition, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my question: Do whales 
that are endangered feel more fear, more pain, more social deprivation, 
etc, etc, when they're hunted down by human beings than whales
that are not endangered might feel in similar circumstances?  

jve> I'm a friend of the *environment* and all of its components
jve> (including deer)...

rl> Yet you're quick to summarize the total existence of a whale with 
rl> the label: "just food".  Has it occurred to you that life might 
rl> have many values for whales and deer that you've simply failed 
rl> to consider?   Has it occurred to you that we might be depriving
rl> them in some way in killing them?

jve> Has it ever occurred to you that people might be just as deprived of
jve> something as these animals are, if you take away their food?  Not
jve> everyone can afford to just go to the grocery store and buy all the
jve> veggies they want.  Some people are in need.

Are you claiming that you would be deprived of your sole source 
of food if your rights to hunt were taken away?  If not, please 
answer my questions: Has it occurred to you that life might have 
many values for whales and deer that you've simply failed to 
consider?  Has it occurred to you that we might be depriving them 
in some way in killing them?  

rl> Incidently, when you get some time, I'd appreciate it if you'd
rl> explain why it would be ok/notok for members of a vastly "superior" 
rl> species to hunt humans for sport.

jve> Patience, old friend.  We will resume our extremely relevant Space
jve> Invaders debate later in the week, barring anything unforseen.

I'll look forward to it.  Perhaps your response will clarify
some of the apparent inconsistencies in your philosophy.

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals