HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Reason
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:02:57 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep3.230154.8103@en.ecn.purdue.edu>, muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
> 
> First of all, have any non-Christians expressed the assurance I am calling
> faith (faith==absolute knowledge of unseen)?  I don't recall any...
> 
> I don't recall any posts where a non-Christian relates a wholistic assurance
> in their belief (i.e. through all aspects of human thought, including reason,
> emotion, experience, gut feelings, etc, etc.).  None who are as blatantly
> stubborn about their position. :-)  Could it be that they are not as sure?
> They base their beliefs only on reason and intellectual feasability,

I am a Hindu. A part of Hinduism, Bhakti Marg, demands the same as
Christianity. If you care to read Bhagavad Gita (Chapter 12, 
Bhaktiyoga), you will see that some Hindus do not "base their beliefs
only on reason and intellectual feasability".

Christianity is an instance of Bhakti Marg (in Hindu terms). But
Bhakti is not the only way to understand/serve the Lord. 

>
> whereas the 
> Christian will acknowledge that reason is an issue, but by far not the
> sum total of religious experience.  There are some on the other end as well.
> 
> John M.
> 
> 
> 

RKP
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: There are two years left!
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:02:25 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-070992113026@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.033823.28710@news.cs.brandeis.edu>,
>aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) wrote:
>> In article <1992Sep5.154610.17229@bcars6a8.bnr.ca>, davem@bnr.ca (Dave Mielke) writes:
>> >There appears to be abundant Biblical evidence which indicates that the
>> >Lord Jesus Christ will return as the judge of all the earth sometime
>> >during September in 1994. 
> 
>> Jesus didn't know when the end was going to occur (Mark 13:32) and it didn't
>> seem to bother him.  Why, then, should we care when it's going to happen?

   Mat 24:4   Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.
   Mat 24:5   For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,  '
      and will deceive many.
   ...
   Mat 24:23   At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
      or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
   Mat 24:24   For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform
      great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were
      possible.
   Mat 24:25   See, I have told you ahead of time.
   Mat 24:26   "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do
      not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
   Mat 24:27   For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in
      the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
   Mat 24:28   Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
   Mat 24:29   "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be
      darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from
      the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
   Mat 24:30   "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the
      sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son
      of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

Alternately, Luke 19:11 and following tells us that Jesus knew the people 
thought the kingdom was coming quickly (right then) and so he told them a 
parable to dispell this idea.

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
                        -|-  |  -|-
                         |   |   |
From: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christians at Work in Oregon
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:31:10 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:

>But where are the Christians speaking out against OCA?

I can't answer this question specifically, since all I have heard of
this issue is on the net.  However I can say that on issues involving
New Jersey, presbyteries of the Presbyterian Church (USA) and various
other "liberal" churches routinely make public statements.  And the
national offices have made statements and intervened in the past in
favor of rights for homosexuals.  This has gotten our Stated Clerk in
big trouble with some of our members.  You can criticize the liberal
churches for many things, but it's hard to see criticizing them for
not making clear their opposition to racism, homophobia, etc.  If
anything, our leadership and that of other churches in the same
position have made statements with such regularity that it's unclear
how much attention is paid to them.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Islamic stories...
From: <HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 6 Sep 1992 10:33:04 MDT
Organization: Brigham Young University

I see the situation as follows.  Qur'an 41:9-12 is internally ambiguous; it
can be interpreted to mean either that the Earth was created in 8 days, or
that it was created in 6 days with some of the periods overlapping as has
been discussed.  The Near Eastern Monotheistic tradition, of which the Qur'an
is a part, clearly speaks of 6 days of creation.  The Qur'an itself in other
passages also speaks of 6 days of creation.  The traditional Muslim
commentators in the _tafsir_ (commentary) literature are all unanimous that
41:9-12 refer to overlapping days of creation.  Thus, the original goal of
this discussion was to attempt to prove that there were contradictions in
the Qur'an.  This clearly fails.  All that has been shown is there is a
possible contradiction; however, in such cases it seems that we must accept
each religious traditions internal interpretations.  Outsiders, by taking
extreme interpretations of ambiguous passages can always create
contradictions where none exist.  This can happen to science as well, as
witness by the attempts at Creationists to show problems with evolutionary
theory.  At any rate.  The inital goal of proving contradictions in the
Qur'an has failed.  Of course that still does not answer the questions:
is the Qur'an consistent with modern science, and is the Qur'an a revelation
from God.  Simply because a book lacks contradictions does not prove it
is infallible revelation.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Stop thinking? (Was: Why I am an atheist)
Organization: micaphone, mica-mica, phone-checka
	<dabrowsk.715318926@liveboard10> <1992Sep9.001159.7407@ac.dal.ca> 
	<xssnnf@lynx.unm.edu> <adams.716060769@spssig>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:54:00 GMT

In article <adams.716060769@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>Then they are foolish.  Constructing a moral system with no God in it is 
>certainly possible.  It just requires a different basis.  What is tough is
>constructing a good system of morals, while trying to remain true to the
>teachings of ones religion...now that's tough!

Yes, it is. Imagine the Native Americans trying to remain true while being
confronted with a very powerful warrior reality, the white ghost riding
the horse. Imagine the Hawai'ians trying to remain true to ancient hula
while being pushed to the tourism of modern hula. Imagine the Mexicans
trying to remain true to their American/European heritage while being pushed
by the US dollar. Imagine the Japanese trying to remain true while being
forced by gunship diplomacy to sign a treaty-port agreement with the US
government (they may have done it). Imagine the poor trying to remain true
in the face of overwhelming poverity. Imagine the Africans trying to remain
true in the face of European racist brutality. Imagine the Spanish speakers
of the US trying to remain true in the face of English only initiatives. It
is tough, but it can be done, to varying degrees. To some extent, we all do
this, we fit ourselves as awkward individuals into the constraints of
society. Imagine a unique individual trying to remain true, in the face of
an overwhelming conformity of society, a wasteland of authentic individuals
living inauthentic lives. Diversity and unity, that is a challenge, but
not insurmountable. Some of us may realize that we are all lions, but we
must live with the majority who think they are lambs. Get up, stand up,
stand up for your right, don't give up the fight. Just do the right thing,
as you know how.
From: kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us (kalki)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: I visited the ICR in pers
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 13:30:28 EDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

SL>Steve Linke
SL>Salk Institute (Gene Expression Lab)
SL>La Jolla, CA

 Kalki Dasa> If anyone would like to find out about a saner approach
 to "creation research", a good place to contact is:

                        The Bhaktivedanta Institute
                        P.O Box 99584
                        San Diego, CA 92109
                        Tel: 619-272-8145

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Kalki's Infoline, 803-643-3172, Aiken, SC, USA
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: god and empiricism
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:42:20 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: Apple

In article <Bu9wr0.8sL@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>, pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul
Harvey) wrote:
> Well K-K-K-K-K-(fish called wonda)Ken, allow me to make it even simpler. Whose 
> definition of Christianity are you using? Makes a big difference, don'tcha 
> think? What makes you think there is not a universal religion based on the 
> meaning of a rock? Isn't it all in the eyes of the beholder? Oh, by the way, 
> the real answer to your question is Rastafarianism

There's an universal understanding about the mechanical laws of psychics.

There are 3000 Christian cults fighting about the one and real doctrine.

Need I say more, say more?

Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,misc.legal,alt.atheism,alt.society.civil-liberty
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Federal court upholds SF's authority to display cross
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:23:27 GMT

According to a UPI story on Clarinet, a federal district judge has
ruled that the city of San Francisco has the authority to continue to
display a 103-foot cross on public land.

The judge's rational:

* The cross is on remote land
* It is no longer illuminated
* It is not marked as city owned (although it is)
* It has "unique" historical significance having been commissioned by
  the city in 1933 and decicated with the help Franklin Roosevelt in
  1934

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: Christians at Work in Oregon
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:01:21 GMT

<SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Let's hear it for Jesus: Sig heil!  Sig heil!  Sig heil!

1. This is unfair...tarring all Christians with this.  Some of us
   reject entirely the ideas that these groups in Oregon have.

2. Some of us Christians do not object to equal treatment and fairness
   to all people.  Some of us ardently support it.

3. At least learn how to spell 'sieg heil'.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4314 alt.alien.visitors:6553
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:58:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Subject: Ruins of the 30,000 Year Old City. Part 5.
  I was also told by R. where there were two tunnels just about 40 yards off 
the trail. They were within view and around some rocks within looking 
distance of the head statues. These tunnels are 6 by 8 foot tall. He said 
they were very dark inside and he didn't go far inside of them. Other 
tunnels he had gone hundred of feet inside. 
  We saw some other structures that looked like a Big Foot (Sasquatch Head). 
It was very large also and one of these structures had an openning in the 
back of the head that you could go inside. It led into a large room that was 
hollowed out inside the head.
  A lot of this city is under water between Malibu and the Channel Island. R. 
said that on a clear day the city could be made out or seen from the very 
highest point that we looked off of. On the day we were there the sun and 
haze obscured our view a little bit.
  R. has noticed quite a bit of strange phenomena in the area. On one 
expedition to this mystic mountain area, it seems that they (the spirits) 
are always observing as us. I have strong feeling that this area was used as 
a landing base for star ships in ancient times. There are pronounced 
markings on the cliffs that look like flying discs. Often while on these 
treks, both my expedition travellers and myself have witnessed first-hand  
UFO activity in the nearbny sky. On three  separate trips, the UFOs beamed 
bright ligthts on us. I must admit it was quite an array and unlike anything 
that I or my fellow adventurers had ever seen before. tT consistent comment 
I seem to hear from these very credible witnesses is, "Hey, did you see 
that"?
  Some of the most far out statement by R. was that it may be just a rumor or 
it may be a fact that there are tunnels big enough to navigate submarine in 
that start out near the Channel Islands. One of them is said to go all the 
way to Arizona. Now I'll admit I don't know how that could be possible 
(maybe part of the tunnel is above the water line).
  R. once said that the sightings of UFOs don't happen according to any 
timetable although most often the "sky dancers" as we call them, appear at 
night around midnight. I can still remember one sighting on a clear and 
beautiful Sunday afternoon. It was incredible. The most popular time is 
during spring, because of the beautiful variety of wild flowers in bloom. 
Frankly, each season has its special value and many people like to go at 
different seasons to get the full effect of the ambiance and the variety of 
cloud formatioins especially in Winter. Sunsets at anytime are extremely 
spirtitual, especially with the back drop of a 30,000 year old ancient city 
and UFO base. Who knows, maybe one day they'll land, join us and share some 
of their knowledge of the area.
End Part 5. John Winston.

  
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4238 alt.alien.visitors:6449 sci.skeptic:16034
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 07:17:06 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <65284@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep7.015736.21418@u.washington.edu>

To People of Shan: It's monday morning and I have a little time so here
I go again. For the last 24 hours I have been off the computer. It seems
like that something kicks me off about once a week. That was quite a
tongue twister that Walter put on and Warren I don't think there is any 
way to take a camera on an astral journey. This last week a friend of 
mine who feeds me information from the Net gave me an article saying that
Shirley McClain was introducing a new motion picture by the name of
A Brief History of Time or something like that. It is the story of the 
man from Oxford who goes around in a wheelchair and talks through a 
computer. I went to see it and if you consider yourself to be an
intellectual I believe you will enjoy it.
  This last week I did some NASA material about their future shuttle
flight that they will be making early in Sept. 1992. It has to do with
frog eggs developing in microgravity. It will be done in cooperation
with the Japanese. NASA has a lot of dedicated people working for them.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: SUMMARY OF OLD PAGAN CULTS
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:30:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.172111.2892@doug.cae.wisc.edu> irfan@maxwell.ece.wisc.edu (Irfan Alan) writes:
>SUMMARY OF SOME OLD PAGAN CULTS 
>HICH HAD SIMILAR RITUALS TO TODAYS' CHRISTIANITY

O merciful Lady Isis, how have we offended thee?  To be plagued not
only with loony Christian fundies, but loonier and even more long
winded Moslem fundies!

Look, Mr Alan, if you really must post about "old pagan cults", at
least do them the minimal courtesy of getting the names right.  How
would you feel if I posted a lot of garbage about "Ula" and his
prophet "Mahound"?

>ATHUS:  Mediterranean Area.  2-3 Thousand years ago.  

Attis.  For something closer to the truth, see Frazer's "The Golden Bough".

>ADAMUS:  Known to Greeks, Babylonians.  Born to a virgin.  

Dumuzi or Tammuz.  Sumerian, not Syrian.

>DYANISHES or BAKUS:  Greek god.  Born to a virgin with 

Dionysos (greek) or Bacchus (roman).  His mother was Semele, not
Demeter.  Identified by Plutarch with Jah, just as the Book
of Exodus identifies him as "Iao-Nissi", the God of Nyssa.
The cult is probably of indian origin; the resemblances to the
Vedic Soma are too close to be coincidental.  And yes, the
cult of Bacchus is the closest pagan analogue to the cult
of Christos Soter, just as the cult of Isis is the closest to
that of Maria regina coeli.  So what?  If many tribes and
peoples agree about a divinity, why does that agreement make
it a false divinity?  If the Persians and Egyptians used the
same geometry as the Greeks, would that make Euclid a lie?

>OSIRUS:  Egyptian god.

Osiris.  See Frazer, as before, or Budge's "Egyptian Mythology".

>MITHRUS:  Mediterranean god, sun-god of Persians.  

Mithras.  Persian Mithra, Sanskrit Mitra.  Max Mueller's commentary
on the Zend Avesta is still, I think, the best account.

>BAL:  son of god.  Babylonians had passion play annually.  

Baal.  A title, meaning "Lord", applied to many gods.


Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4251 alt.alien.visitors:6470 sci.skeptic:16068
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 92 06:31:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <65409@cup.portal.com>

Subject Ostrich People: Part 3
Since the natives are shy and elusive, little was known about them before Dr. C's landmark expedition. We arrived in their village with the goal of observing the people in their day to day lives. This proved to be difficult at first since they were very suspicious and didn't come out of their huts for days. But gradually, they began to lose their fear and approached us., They became wonderful hosts, feeding us and giving us shelter at night.--End Part 3. John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4260 soc.culture.asian.american:8893 soc.rights.human:3353 soc.culture.korean:4235 soc.culture.asean:6010 soc.culture.british:12285
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: ONENESS AND UNIQUENESS OF THE CREATOR, AND THE PURPOSE OF CREATION
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:09:37 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep5.213907.27633@midway.uchicago.edu> deb5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>	Am i reading soc.culture.korean or am i deluded?  
>Usenet is a forum for ideas and i have nothing against someone 
>discussing their religious beliefs _IF IT'S PART OF A DISCUSSION OF A TOPIC
>GERMANE TO THE NEWSGROUP_. Your topic hasn't the faintest relevance to the
>newsgroup, any more than a kimchi recipe on rec.music.industrial.
>	In short, i think others support me when i say, I DON'T WANT TO
>HEAR YOUR PROSELYTIZING.  Now behave before the Olympians, the Aesir, the
>Tuatha De Danaan, the 10,000 Gods, and a myriad of others unite to strike
>you down.
>						Yours in Abraxis,
>							D. v. Brighoff
>-- 
>	Daniel "Da" von Brighoff (deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /\
>	951 E. 54th Place				    /__\
>	Chicago, IL  60637				   /____\
>							  

Oh my...oh yes...we are literally shaking in our shoes! Quick
duck before Zeus unleashes His ThunderBolt in your direction.

There is a Being which Humanity in it's current state calls God.
Unfortunately we have never met God and the only person who may
have known God, Yeshua/Issus/Joshua/Jesus (many names for one
man) was lied about from cover to cover in the bible IMHO and we
are never taught his true message but presented only the Vatican
and government accepted version of his life...an anemic history
discourse which I long LONG since turned my back on. But I have
nevr turned my back on that simething that loves Humanity....I
have gotten that much closer since I left the organized church
structure.

You want to find God? IN the music....in the silence that
intersperses the thought pattern encased in a word....that is
one place to find God.

Len
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4352 alt.alien.visitors:6628 sci.skeptic:16412
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 09:07:02 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep13.164902.25689@rosevax.rosemount.com>

Good Morning Earthlings: It seems like this old world is trying to 
tell us something. Storms, fires and floods. You'd better not mess
around with Mother Nature. She can play pretty rough. Now to answer
a few question. I noted Grant's comments and will keep them in mind.
It seems we have a problem with one of our Astral Train members in 
Hawaii. Communications are down due to the storm and D. is worried 
about E. who lives in Hawaii. Does anyone know went communications
will be restored?
 In regards to someone trying to communicate with me 
by telepathy and me showing up to them astrally, this gets a little
scary because I'm going to appear as a ghost. If you haven't seen 
a ghost and especially if you don't believe in ghost in the first
and last place, this can scare you out of your wits. A person should
just be in a passive mood (put your mind in neutral) and I'll come
through and give a message and two pictures. 
John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4256 alt.consciousness:448 alt.dreams:3037 alt.drugs:15453 alt.mindcontrol:115 alt.psychoactives:1158