HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Need software for Zyxel
From: balmer@ifi.unibas.ch (Marc Balmer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:05:55 GMT
Reply-To: balmer@ifi.unibas.ch
Organization: Institut fuer Informatik

In article <3D3sXB2w165w@questor.org>  writes:

> I am not aware that ZyXEL releases the source code for their ZFAX software,
> but if you want the DOS binaries, they are available for both the 2.1
> and 2.2 versions (as well as modem prices, spec sheet images and more)
> from the:   mail-server@questor.org

No, what I am looking for is software in C to use the advanced features. I am  
trying to get voice over the line by using the voice capability but until now  
my Zyxel refuses to do so. The manual states somewhere, that the bisync  
protocol is to be used when transmitting voice data ...???

If someone had a piece of C that explains the usage of this function I would  
be happy to receive a copy of it.

Regards,
Marc Balmer
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:20150 comp.dcom.fax:2540
From: kalisiak@acsu.buffalo.edu (Christophe M. Kalisiak)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.dcom.fax
Subject: Anyone know anything about a Dataplex faxmodem?
Date: 28 Jan 93 23:04:41 GMT
Organization: UB

Hello all,

	I am trying to find out some information on a Dataplex faxmodem.
If anyone knows anything about them, please let me know. Also, I would be 
looking for an address or phone number of whomever makes them.

Thanks,
Chris


-- 
Chris Kalisiak		     | "Pound for pound, lame puns are your best
kalisiak@acsu.buffalo.edu    |   entertainment value." -- Gogo Dodo, Tiny Toons
V076N3W7@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu| "Stimpy, your wealth of ignorance astounds me."
V076N3W7@ubvms.bitnet	     |   -- Ren Hoek, Ren and Stimpy
From: wcp@lpds.sublink.org (Walter C. Pelissero)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: mgetty posting on alt.sources
Keywords: mgetty source posting
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:50:51 GMT
Organization: Sweet home under white clouds
Phone: + 39 2 8464117 - 8435411 (work)	8267089 (home)
Postal-Address: Via G. de Ruggiero 87, 20142 Milano - Italia

I forgot to mention that I don't receive alt.* so if you need to
contact me do it with mail.
-- 
P4 32 8 @A ^@@A ^@@Ax^@@A ^@DA"^@D]%xJe&H1\236\331\306
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: LJ01066@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: MNP-5 modems
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 07:09:25 PST

It is very probable that most BBS's use mnp5 as they usually have up
to date modems.  As far as 4800 baud goes, this only applies to data
that has not been compressed, like text files.  Files that are already
compressed by prgms. like pkzip will not benefit from mnp5 compression.
In fact it's likely to make things slower as compressing compressed
files usually makes them larger then when you started.



R.D. Horton

**********************************************************************
From: bruce@camb.com (Barton F. Bruce)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Ground start modems??
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:36:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: camb.1993Jan23.233621.16
Distribution: world
Organization: Cambridge Computer Associates, Inc.

In article <727133832snx@crynwr.com>, nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes:
> Are there any modem manufacturers who make ground start modems?  Is
> there any way to fake it?

Not sure why you want modems on ground start lines, but they will work
fine for incoming traffic. Once the CO has seized the line to ring it,
TIP will be grounded rather than floating.

If you must dial out on them, can you dial through whatever PBX
presumably is using them as trunks?

If you MUST dial out on them, there are 2 types of vendors to check.
First the telecoms types. Try Proctor, Melco, or Teltone. At least one of them
probably makes something. Mitel may make an adapter, too, designed to let
POTS phones without ground buttons make calls when a PBX is in powerfail
transfer.

The 2nd general sort of source to try is the burglar alarm industry. When they
prempt an outside via an RJ31 jack, it may be a ground start trunk on a PBX, 
and they have little adapters so that a loop start device can pull dialtone.

As a purely practical matter, if you can ground TIP for 2 seconds while you
have closure through your modem to RING, you will probably have CO ground
on TIP and dialtone when you let go. If you have a long loop, it might be better
to ground RING, but there will be no current through the modem until
you remove this ground, and that may be undesirable. 

If you do not need any current through the modem until you get dialtone,
and want to be TIP vs RING insensitive, ground BOTH TIP and RING for 2 seconds
with the modem 'off-hook' waiting to keep the loop closed. At the end of 
the 2 seconds, remove the grounds, and your modem should see a POTS 
offhook line with dialtone.

The home-brew stuff is all un-FCC registered, of course.
From: liechti@elde1.epfl.ch
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Need help in programming a ZyXEL
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:50:50 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <1993Jan25.165204.19413@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, dscheide@iiic.ethz.ch (Daniel Felix Scheidegger) writes:
> Hi all,
> 
> i have to write an accplication, with works similarry to a voice answering 
> machine. therefore, i want to play a voice-file to the ZyXEL. are there any
> hints, how to do that, preferably code-fragments?
> and.. aeh... whats this xon/xoff-thing anyway? :-)
> 
> thanks in advance for any help
> 
> Daniel
> 
> dscheide@iiic.ethz.ch
> dscheide@impch.imp.ch



Hello!

Just E-Mail me and give me a brief explanation of your problem...
I've developed some applications for ZyXEL modems.

Andrew

liechti@elde.epfl.ch         "The LCP Package"

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: sutton@ece.cmu.edu (Peter Sutton)
Subject: Re: "International" modem?
Originator: sutton@dart.ece.cmu.edu
Reply-To: sutton@ece.cmu.edu (Peter Sutton)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:15:47 GMT


> From: BYTERIDER@EZINFO.VMSMAIL.ETHZ.CH (KELLER,CESAR WALTER)
> In <1k775oINN23u@hpsceo.scd.hp.com> schmitz@scd.hp.com writes:
> > ... E.g., if I take my Hayes modem that I use here in the USA to
> > Australia, will it work?  Will it die?
> 
> Any modem will work in Australia. But it might not be legal, but who
> really cares about that.
> Here in Europe all modems must be approved by the phone company, like
> the FCC in the USA. In Switzerland it is even illegal to SELL unapproved
> modems, but of course they work perfectly.  Only difference is the
> 220Volt plug, different phone plug and better BUSY signal detection (adapted
> for Switzerland).
> 
> So all you really have to do is go to the store and buy a phone cable/plug
> and maybe a 220V to 110V adapter (does Australia use 220V or 110V??).
 
Most modems should work in Australia though my understanding is that it 
is illegal to _IMPORT_ telecommunications equipment (including modems) 
into Australia. (I imagine if you have the right permit, or the device 
is approved by AOTC (Telecom) the customs people might let it through - 
otherwise they may well confiscate it.)

Australia uses 240V (though I think Western Australia might be slightly 
different)

Peter

-- 
Peter Sutton                                           sutton@dart.ece.cmu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University                          
Pittsburgh  PA  15213  USA           (Too many miles from Brisbane, Australia)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: jlacour@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Lacour)
Subject: USR 'tri-standard' modem a fake
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:42:17 GMT

You may have read a memo, supposedly written by USR President and Chairman
Casey Cowell, which announces the release of the USR 'tri-standard' modem.

The document was not written by Mr. Cowell nor has USR announced such a
modem.

The memo, dated Jan. 15, 1992, purports that a new modem capable of
39600 bps rates has been released.  It contains a great deal of text
buffered from our BBS system and has been posted primarily in Europe and
Germany where it appears it originated.

USRobotics typically announces new products in press releases issued by
our public relations department.

Regards,
John
--
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Got rid of my Supra, looking for ZyXEL
Originator: behrenss@hphalle4h.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:51:47 GMT


Yup,

I finally did it, I found someone who bought my Supra modem. Now I'm looking
for a ZyXEL 1496E, new or used. Are there some good places to check? Who
has good prices on the ZyXEL?

Thanks

Soenke
-- 
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
From: u1066579@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Acoustic modems for 1200 or 2400 baud?
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:13:54 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

Hi,
   Just a quick query.  Are 1200 and 2400 baud acousticly coupled modems
available?  By acousticaly coupled I mean those ones where the phone handset is
inserted into a coupler.
  If you can help please E-mail to u1066579@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Best Wishes,
Henry.




Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: xli@top.cis.syr.edu (Xue Li (Shirley))
Subject: test
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 15:22:01 EST

This is a test.
From: sp@questor.org (Steve Pershing)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: 16550/A chip sources?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 14:12:04 PST
Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670

lam@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Lam) writes:

|> I've got a handful of computers that I need to upgrade UART chips for.  Anyon
|> know of a cheap source?

Not cheap, but I have them here at $12 each.

--
    Steve Pershing, SysAdmin  <sp@questor.org>    The QUESTOR Project
  FREE access to Environ, Sci, Med, & AIDS news, and more.  [also UUCP]
    on a ZyXEL-U1496S+  =>  v.42bis, v.32bis, v.33, up to 16,800bps.
                 -=-         -=-         -=-         -=-
   Fones: (+1 604)  Data: 681-0670  Telefax: 682-6160  Voice: 682-6659


Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl)
Subject: Re: strange Zyxel modem problem
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:05:13 GMT

In <WBE.93Jan20215902@crystal.bbn.com> wbe@bbn.com (Winston Edmond) writes:

>kline@cs.arizona.edu (Nick Kline) asks:
>   I have a next 68040 cube running OS 3.0 with a zyxel 1496E modem
>   running 5.02 Roms.
>...
>   One way to cause the problem is to log on at 9600 baud and cat a large
>   file.  After a while it seems to overrun the capabilities of the computer.

>   I am using all the default setting on the Zyxel, and have a proper 68040
>   modem cable that worked before with a 2400 baud modem.

>Maybe your computer could keep up at 2400 bps and can't keep up at 9600 bps +
>compression?

>The default flow control on many UNIX systems is XON/XOFF.  Check the serial
>port setup and see if "crtscts" (RTS/CTS) is enabled.  Alternatively, if
>you're logged in via the port, try "stty -a", look at the end of the second
>line, and see if it says "crtscts" or "-crtscts".

And while we are listing all the things that could conceivably be the
problem -- is there any chance the modem cable fails to provide
RTS/CTS?  That is, does it only have two data lines and a ground line?
If so, and if the modem were set to hardware flow control rather than 
XON/XOFF flow control, that could be your problem.

I vaguely recall the ZyXEL defaults to RTS/CTS flow control rather
than XON/XOFF.  So you would ideally want to be sure you have a cable
that carries those signals, and you would want to configure the 
serial port on the computer to use RTS/CTS flow control.

-- 
Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: gibbsdl@ornl.gov (David L. Gibbs)
Subject: PP Pocket Modem
Organization: Data Systems Research and Development
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:31:17 GMT

Has anyone tried the new Practical Peripheral Pocket Modem 14400FX?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
David L. Gibbs                             Internet: gibbsdl@ornl.gov
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Inc.         BITNET: gibbsdl@ornlstc
Data Systems Research and Development         Phone: (615)576-6885
1099 Commerce Park                              FAX: (615)574-7624
Oak Ridge, TN 37830

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Distribution: world
From: jimh@laison.w8hd.org (Jim Hebert)
Organization: L'AISON - Local Area Information Server Open Network
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:26:01 EDT
Subject: AT&T DataPort 14.4

I just received the AT&T DataPort 14.4 v.32bis data modems from AT&T Paradyne
and installed them on my bbs. The modems have only been in operation for a few
days, but, so far, the results are favorable. Among user comments:

 -the AT&T modem negotiates faster (than the Hayes Optima it replaced)
 -the AT&T demonstrated the ability to fallback from 14.4 to 12,200 to 9600 and then fall-forward,working
up to 14,400 as line quality improved. (The Practical Peripherals 14400 FXSA
it replaced would never seem to do this.)


Some other casual observations:

The DataPort (external) is housed in a beige-brown plastic case. The modem is
built on a single PC board, using all surface mount components. About half of
the circuit board in covered by a soldered-on metal shield with perforated
holes, which obscures the view of the components underneath. Beneath the
shield, a MC68302 is used as the cpu; an AT&T DSP chip is also present.  Eight
incredibly tiny LEDs are mounted across the front, and appear much larger when
viewed through the diffuser screen built in the front panel bezel.
 
One interesting item: there is no socketed ROM on the board. I called AT&T
Tech Support to ask them if there were any way to field upgrade the modem, and
they confirmed that there was not. However, they stated that the modem had
been very thoroughly tested and would not likely need firmware upgrades. (Note
that other modems in the AT&T line, the 3800 series for example, can download
firmware revisions and upgrade themselves, although these are considerably
more expensive than the 3700 series DataPort.)
 
The AT command set is somewhat different from the "Hayes-standard".  On some
commands fewer options are available, while on others a vast array of options
is presented. A spiral bound manual covers all the features, functions, and
commands in terse detail, and it is well organized.
 
I believe the modem is supposed to be priced at about $500 (retail). AT&T are currently selling it to sys-ops at a very aggressive price, less than half of that, in fact, on a promotional
offer that runs through the end of January.

_____________________________________________________________________________
Jim Hebert                L'AISON = Local Area Information Server Open Network    
jimh@laison.w8hd.org                Tel: 313/647-2634  Beverly Hills, Michigan
______________________________________________________________________________
From: scf0994@rigel.tamu.edu (FIELDS, SCOTT CRISTOPHER)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Zoom VFX v.32-bis eprom upgrades
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:13 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I heard that the new eproms had jump-up/jump-back capabilities.  What exactly
is this??  Is this the only addition?  Is it worth the upgrade??

		Thanks,
		  Scott
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: phrrngtn@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Paul J. J. Harrington)
Subject: Hunt for identity of Racal-Milgo 'box'
Summary: What is a PL2000
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:20:12 GMT


I have been given a real fossil that no one seems to know anything
about.

I assume it is some kind of modem due to the presence of the word
'Racal' and some female 25 pin D connectors. No RJ11. Other connector is
a 15 pin female D.

It has a British Telecom approved sticker on it.

There is some custom Racal chip inside and quite a few Intel controllers
and discrete TTL.

numbers on the back include
part no 4415p
p263A-01u N

system/part
4412x263A
version 1.28B


any ideas?

pjjH
-- 
Paul Harrington, phrrngtn@dsg.cs.tcd.ie, phrrngtn@gallimaufry.ie tel:+353 88 599673
Dept. Computer Sci., Trinity College, University of Dublin, Dublin 2, Ireland.


Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: pete@mips.fidata.fi (Petri Helenius)
Subject: EverFax 2496D/E
Reply-To: pete@fidata.fi
Organization: Fimeko-Data Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:54:09 GMT

  I'd like to know if EverFax modems are available somewhere now, after
Everex is operating under Chapter 11? I'd like to buy five or more of 
the modems, so any sources of these modems are appreciated.

Pete
--
--
 Petri Helenius, Fimeko-Data Oy 
 Phone +358-0-458 2421, Telefax +358-0-458 2425
 Internet pete@fidata.fi, Snail: Hollantilaisentie 36, 00330 HKI, FINLAND
 X.400    /C=fi/ADMD=fumail/PRMD=inet/O=fidata/S=Helenius/G=Petri/
 Looking for Unix(r) FAX-system ?   Mail queries to fdfax@fidata.fi
From: stella@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Ricky ...suave... Stella)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: E-mail address for Boca ???
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:52:35 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

RTTA...

Please respond via e-mail..

Thanks...

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ricardo Stella                                 stella@gandalf.rutgers.edu
 RUCS-US Site Manager - IML-SERC                stella@remus.rutgers.edu
 Hill 118 - (908)932-2491        ...suave...    Rutgers University, NJ
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: pdl@rz.uni-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Subject: Re: Help needed about comm 3&4 usage
Keywords: com modem
Reply-To: pdl@rz.uni-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Organization: University Jena, Germany
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:55:35 GMT


In article <93021.40067.LJ01066@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, LJ01066@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
|> I want to know if it is possible to install a second modem board in my
|> system. Considerations:  I have to use comm 1 or 2 for my current modem,
|> no choice. If I install a second one on the other port what happens to
|> my mouse which I want to use also. I would only be running one modem
|> port at a time but how do you switch between the two and still keep the
|> mouse. My thought is to put the mouse on comm 3 or 4 and the modem on
|> comm 1 in this case. Can this be done (Two modems at once).  If so how
|> and where should comm ports be assigned i.e. mouse=comm1 or mouse=comm3.

Last friday I installed a new 16550A as COM4, because I have no description
for my multi-IO card. :-(
I got the following problem. Everything works fine, but "ECHO ATH0 > COM4"
results in WRITE FAULT. So I can say, if you only use selfwritten or FOSSIL
based software, there would be no problem. BUT if you use any DOS function to
access the port, you will get garbage.

Lutz
+---------+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|snailMail| Lutz Donnerhacke; Alte Strasse 5; O-6902 Jena-Lobeda 1; Germany|
|eMail    | Lutz.Donnerhacke@Physik.Uni-Jena.DE   <pdl@hpux.rz.uni-jena.de>|
+---------+-------------------------------------------------------------L&C+
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: rkimball@athena.qualcomm.com (Robert Kimball)
Subject: Re: ZyXEL request
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:54:58 GMT

a2niekre@rzdspc31.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Oliver Niekrenz) writes:

>In a magazine i found an add for Zyxel modems. I decided to buy me a modem
>(as soon as i am rich enough) but i was wondering about a few abbreviations.
>Could anybody explain me the meaning  (of life :-) )
>of CELP and the differences between the E,B und Plus modems (and don`t tell
>me it`s only the prize)

>I would be very thankful.

CELP stands for Code Excited Linear Prediction and is a compute intensive
way of encoding/reconstructing voice audio.  The compression ratio and voice
quality can be quite good with CELP.

-- 


Bob Kimball
rkimball@qualcomm.com
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl)
Subject: Re: Phone cutoff on modems with two jacks?
Keywords: modem relays
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:15:33 GMT

In <1jt9sgINNq96@life.ai.mit.edu> mbeck@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Mark Becker) writes:


>Greetings *

>I have a couple of old 1200 baud modems with two jacks.  One jack is
>labelled 'Line', the other, 'Phone'.  When correctly wired up, these
>modems cut off the telephone when going off-hook.

>Now I've started seeing 2400 baud modems that don't cut off the
>telephone when going off-hook; they parallel their connections onto
>the telephone line.  This means that if someone wants to shift from
>voice to data, someone gets an earful of noise.  Also, the modem will
>pick up whatever noise occurs in the room via the 'live' microphone.

>Problem: I'm thinking of purchasing a faster modem.  However, when I
>ask about line/phone jacks, all I get are confused looks from sales
>critters.

>Two questions for the group:

>	Does your v32.bis/v42.bis modem have two jacks?

>	If so, does the modem cut off the telephone socket OR does the
>	modem just parallel on the line?

Well, the two different WOrldports I have used (the 2496 and the 9600 MNP)

both have paralleled jacks.

And the ZyXEL U-1496E and Global Village Teleport Gold modems I have
both have switched jacks.

Hope that helps.  If you get lots of answers, you might want to 
summarize and repost.


-- 
Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
From: chi@barracuda.micro.umn.edu (Ed H. Chi)
Subject: Re: why does sz break ?
Keywords: help 
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:17:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.231743.27900@ornl.gov> gsgathin@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU (golando s gathings) writes:
>
>I am trying to install rz and sz on a sparc station to allow
>tranfers via a dial-in thru a DCA box or a xyplex terminal
>server.  I compile the source code using the 'bsd' switch
>when I try to to download the file using sz on the host side
>and a pc on the local side , it immediately aborts the xfer
>  I have also used the 'sz -TT filename ' command to see
>if the above boxes are stripping  control characters.  It
>returns saying that mode(2) in the rbsb.c module is not 
>implemented.  
>Does any one have any ideas on when the above is happening ?

could be a number of things....  but usually it's a handshaking
problem.  Instead of the usual streaming zmodem, try:

sz -brl 1024 <file.to.be.sent>

the "b" tells the sz not to do any translating.
the "r" tells the sz to resume transfer.
the "l 1024" tells the sz to use 1024 bytes pockets.

Your modem and computer must acknowledge every 1024 bytes pockets
before the host modem and computer will send the next pocket.

Hope this works...



--
  o/    \  /    \ /     /      \o    email: chix0001@student.tc.umn.edu
 /#      ##o     #     o##      #\                - or -
 / \    /  \    /o\    / |\    / \          chi@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
Xref: sparky comp.dcom.modems:19985 alt.security:5366