HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: R-movies in parochial school?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 18:43:37 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

Eric Lee Green <elg@ELGAMY.JPUNIX.COM> writes:

> I'm curious about how a movie such as this would be recieved in a parochial
> school... do parochial schools show more or less courage when it comes to
> tackling controversial topics like war and racism? I suspect it depends
> highly upon the principal, but...
>

Eric, as I mentioned earlier, I used to show feature feature films on World War
II when I was a high school history teacher.  The ones I showed were PG,
however ('Patton' and 'The Big Red One').  Since they weren't R, the only thing
they had was language, not much graphic violence.  Of course, we're talking
about high school juniors here, so that's 16 and 17 year olds, which is a far
cry from younger kids.

The only R movie I showed was 'Ordinary People' for Psychology class, but that
was high school seniors, and some of them were as old as 19.  I didn't generate
any controversy at all over that, since the film dealt with teenage suicide,
and was highly rated.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:02:28 CST
From:         CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject: Re: EWTN
              7 Jan 1993 09:02:00 EST from <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:02:00 EST Alfred S. Chavez said:
>Yesterday there was an exchange concerning the consecration of Russia and
>the campaign by many Catholics, some lead by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, to have
>the Pope "do it right."  There is a brief column in the December 1992
>Columbia magazine published by the Knights of Columbus, (a more
>conservative and loyal group you will not find) written by Bernard
>Casserly, that effectively, IMO, rebuts the campaign.  Elizabeth, if you
>would send me your fax number (privately or on net), I would be glad to fax
>you a copy and would be interested in your take on it.
>His Peace,
>Fred Chavez
>achavez@umsa.umd.edu

Thank you very much, Fred, for sending the article. Tomorrow I'll post the
conflicting statements and details. Understand that I am not doing so
to "dispute" the Columbia article, but to simply show opposing views and
understandings of the situation. Personally, all I'm after is the truth.

In Christ,
Elizabeth
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:05:37 -0500
From:         URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

"Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:
>In one sense it's still true that all handicaps are caused by
>sin -- original sin.

You don't know how relieved I am to hear that there were no handicapped
dinosaurs. Thanks, Gordon:-) -J.J.
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re:      Re: EWTN
Date: 7 Jan 1993 23:30:30 GMT
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: world
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In article <2B4CC10D@postoffice.ucc.american.edu>,         Jim McIntosh <Jim@AMERICAN.EDU> writes:
|> 
|> Many years ago, while taking a Liberation Theology course, someone posed the
|> question "What if there is no hell?" I'll never forget my surprize when the
|> Jesuit teaching the class responded "If there's no hell, why should we
|> bother being good?"
|> 
I have heard that response several times - but it did not surprise me.  It was 
not to express a view but to force me to think.  It is a very important
question.  Why do we bother to be good? Is it for ourselves (some deep seated
sense of selfworth) or for view (need to be accepted/have prestege) or for
others (love of others/God) or to avoid pain (punishment/hell)?
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From: 15942@brahms.udel.edu (Stephen Barr)
Subject: Re: EWTN
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:14:07 GMT

     I have to admit that I also find it hard to swallow
the authenticity of the Medjugorje apparitions. About
five years ago I was given some literature about Medj..
written by a Lutheran pastor who was a big devotee of
these apparitions. I was also given some other "pro-Medj.."
literature. When I started reading it I was disposed to
believe it. But the more I read the more I felt it
did not ring true. One thing I felt was particularly
strange. One of the "visionaries" asked Our Lady how
many people went to Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven. Our
Lady responded with a statistical breakdown! I forget
the percentages. But I remember that a distinct minority
(about 10% I think) go to Hell. That Mary would divulge
such information seems to me to be absurd. The disciples
asked Jesus for this information (Are there many who will
be saved?) and Our Lord would not reveal it. No question
has been more interesting to believers since, yet
Revelation gives no answer! I would think the reason is
obvious. It is not something we are supposed to know.
Moreover, Scripture emphasizes the difficulty of salvation
(take the narrow path) and if anything suggests that "few"
will be saved. (Many are called but few are chosen). So
suddenly Mary tells us that 90% are saved! Why? To satisfy 
our idle curiosity? This is just one of many things I read
which convinced me these apparitions are not genuine.
    This is not to say that the Holy Spirit has not moved
many devotees of Medjugorje to repentance and to holiness.
Many of the things that the visionaries report Our
Lady as saying at Medjugorje are doubtless true and good
things. Those who recognize their truth and are converted
by them are indeed being illuminated by the Holy Spirit.
But that says something only about the power of God
who turn anything to good. 
    One thing I don't understand is why devotees of these
apparitions are disturbed that some Catholics don't
accept them. Catholics have never been expected to accept
ANY private revelation, even Fatima or Lourdes. Or, at
least, never been required to accept them. I accept the
basic message that repentance is sorely needed. But
why must I or anyone else accept these particular messages.
??? I am content to let the Church pass judgment. Given 
the very dubious character of some of the messages and
some of the circumstances surrounding them, I would be
astonished if the Church authorities ever felt they could
judge THem as worthy of belief.  Steve
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From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re:      Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8:1-11)
Reply-To: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Organization: Exxon Research & Engineering
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:52:49 GMT


In article <930108143846.2e003145@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM>,         URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>
>For a homosexual, heterosexual acts are revolting, yet they may
>still find revulsion in the five others you listed.
>Leaving the toilet seat up may be a moral dilemma to some:-)

Only in the dark could it possibly cause a dilemma...:-0

>What is natural and what is unnatural is the question, it appears
>to me that homosexuality is a naturally occurring trait in a
>certain percentage of the population and always has been.

So does predisposition to criminal behavior.  Does that make it morally
right?  Natural != right.

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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:37:39 HST
From:         Len Howard <tas@PEGASUS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Newman and Liberalism
              Liberalism" (Jan 12, 12:32am)

John, now that may be where cross sectional ideas differ.  I _assumed_
from what Fr Goode said that Newman was talking about the original
Church of Rome, i.e. the paternistic church.  But it could well be, as
you say, that he really wished to bring it back to the pre Cromwell
church, or even the pre-reformation church, though I doubt that to be
the case.  There was a short period during the time of Mary and
Elizabeth where the high mass was the norm in the Queen's chapel, and
this may be the 'golden age' he was seeking.  You know more about it
from reading his book than I do from listening to 15 minutes of
lecture, regardless of who is doing the lecturing.
Shalom,  John                                   Len
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: eharbin@convex.com (Edward Harbin)
Subject: Re: EWTN
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:08:22 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1993Jan4.164056.5941@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow) writes:
>I find it much to conservative for my tastes.  It seems to smack so much of
>the magic approach to religion that I find so distasteful.  Occasionally some
>of the more 'technical' talks are informative.  I am sorry to feel so
>judgemental but the 'if we all just spend more time in front of the Blessed
>Sacrament' approach is not what I believe in.  I think we should be watching
>CNN and finding out what the world problems are, reading the local paper to

On the other hand, the more I watch CNN (or used to - I finally threw the
tube away in a snit) the less confidence I have that I've learned something,
or that if I've learned something, I've got the wisdom to know the good.
In any case, I'd guess the problem with our world is not too much prayer,
too little news....
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From: jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:58:45 GMT

In article <oneil.726714408@cwis> oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
>How can you know what is in the heart of another man?  I don't presume to
>judge my gay neighbors in this way because I cannot know what is within
>their hearts.  That is between them and God.

Isn't this true of both sinful acts and good acts, i.e. that only God can
know what is in the heart of the actor?  But that being true, does it follow
that we are incapable of judging that such an action is sinful, or that such
other action is good?  If we are incapable, either personally, or corporately,
or with the aid of the Church, then it seems we are of all people most 
miserable.  If there is no source of knowledge that can
indicate either positively (good) or negatively (sin) how we can accept the 
salvation offered to us through Jesus Christ?  Oh most miserable of all 
creatures, we are all most miserably damned for our ignorance of the ways of 
salvation.

One further reflection, according to one long standing tradition, not even an
individual can know what is in his or her heart.  So it won't do to say that
even if I cannot know what is in your heart and so judge the sinfullness of
your acts, you can since you can know the contents of your heart.  It seems that
if you can judge correctly the sinfullnes of your own acts it must be some
criterion other than what you know to be in your heart.  What might that 
criterion be, and is it suitably public in such a way that others can also
come to the same conclusion?

This is not to say that there are no sins which are purely interior sins.
Just to say that there may also be sins which are not purely interior, and
can be recognized as sins.

Peace,
John O'Callaghan


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From: jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Re:      Re: Newman and Liberalism
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:19:39 GMT

In article <9301120537.AA06380@pegasus.com> Len Howard <tas@PEGASUS.COM> writes:
>John, now that may be where cross sectional ideas differ.  I _assumed_
>from what Fr Goode said that Newman was talking about the original
>Church of Rome, i.e. the paternistic church.  But it could well be, as
>you say, that he really wished to bring it back to the pre Cromwell
>church, or even the pre-reformation church, though I doubt that to be
>the case.  There was a short period during the time of Mary and
>Elizabeth where the high mass was the norm in the Queen's chapel, and
>this may be the 'golden age' he was seeking.  You know more about it
>from reading his book than I do from listening to 15 minutes of
>lecture, regardless of who is doing the lecturing.
>Shalom,  John                                   Len

Len,
This might help:

"I had a supreme confidence in our cause; we were upholding that primitve
Christianity which was registered and attested in the Anglican formularies
and by the Anglican divines.  That ancient religion had well-nigh faded away out
of the land, through the political changes of the last 150 years, and it must be
restored.  It would be in fact a second Reformation:-- a better reformation, for
it would be a return not to the sixteenth century, but to the seventeenth."

Peace,
John

P.S. Oops.  Thats from the chapter "History of My Religious Opinions from 1833
to 1839."
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 06:27:56 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: help for a questioning couple
 <C0MrMn.HK@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <C0o0Aw.BLA@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

Catholic leaders urged Catholic laymen to be actively involved in
the work of the Church years before Vatican II.  Not enough
Catholics responded to the call, but that's nothing new.

What is new is that some Catholics seem to think they can only
participate in the work of the Church by becoming ersatz priests,
instead of by concentrating on bringing Christ into the world as
laymen.
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Experience beats in vain upon a congenital progressive."
        --  C. S. Lewis
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:26:47 EST
From:         "Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter (Cindy Smith)" <cms@DRAGON.COM>
Subject: Re: Red Letter Edition of the New Jerusalem Bible

Does anyone know where I can get a Red Letter edition of the
New Jerusalem Bible?  I searched bookstores and catalogues and cannot
find one anywhere.  Does one exist?

In Jesus Son of Mary,

Cindy Smith
cms@dragon.com
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:07:40 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Jan 15

                    Friday, January 15, 1993

Hebrews 4:1-5, 11           Psalm 78            Mark 2:1-12

                "WHOM SHOULD I FEAR?"  (Ps 27:1)

"We ought to be fearful of disobeying lest any one of you be judged to have
 lost his chance of entering." --Hebrews 4:1

Most of us are afraid of what other people think of us.  We may be afraid of
failure, death, or pain.  Because of our fears, we sometimes let ourselves be
manipulated into disobeying God.  However, we should be more fearful of
disobeying God than of enduring even the worst sufferings.  God is not to be
trifled with.  "Make no mistake about it, no one makes a fool of God!"
(Gal 6:7)  "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God"
(Heb 10:31).  "Do not fear those who deprive the body of life but cannot
destroy the soul.  Rather, fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in
Gehenna" (Mt 10:28).  Although we should obey God because of love and not
just fear, we still should be fearful that the Lord will finally let us get
the full wages of our sins; that is, death and eternal damnation (Rm 6 23).

The fear of the Lord is not just a reasonable reaction to the possibility of
damnation.  It is also an awe and deep awareness of God's presence.  It is a
gift of the Holy Spirit (Is 11 :2-3).  As the early Church did, we should be
"making steady progress in the fear of the Lord" and at the same time enjoying
"the increased consolation of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 9:31).  "He who fears
the Lord is never alarmed, never afraid" (Sir 34:14).


Prayer:  Father, gift me with the fear of You.

Promise: "When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralyzed man, `My Son,
          your sins are forgiven.'"  Mk 2:5

Praise:  After a near-fatal accident Daniel became more aware of God's hand
         in his life -- and placed his life in God's hands.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, October 15, 1992.
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Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:44:46 -0700
From:         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: contributions

On Jan 7, 10:09am, Carol Goodson wrote:
} Subject: Re: contributions
}
} ***sorry to disillusion you, but I am indeed Catholic.  We are of course
} invited and encouraged to pledge a certain amount each year (which I do), but
} no one ever comes around to our homes and tries to talk us into giving more,
} or at least I have not heard of it.  I would find this very offensive.  As
} you can see, I live in the South; perhaps such aggressive customs have not
} yet made it down here...and I hope they don't.
}
}
}-- End of excerpt from Carol Goodson

        Well, such things are common among my Baptist/evangelical friends.
Then, of course, there's the Mormons....

GZ

--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
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Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 15:46:21 EST
From:         "Charles T. Smith, Jr." <cts@DRAGON.COM>
Subject:      Help with Building Plans

Our Parish is beginning the process of planning to expand our physical
plant.

First, I'd like to make some contacts with people who have done this kind
of thing before;  I'd like ideas of what to do, what not to do, and what
to look out for.

Any copies of plans, documents, or software would be MOST welcome.  War
stories, horror tales, and success stories also very welcome;  ideas for
fund raisers, creative financing, locating support from corporate sponsors
would be great.

Finally, anyone who has worked on a committee that acted as its own
contractor, please get in touch.

  Charles Smith
  cts@dragon.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Re: Communication Problems, Gregory XVI and (oh, no, not again) Railways
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:28:13 GMT

In article <6442@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk> mfulsmb@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Martin Barry) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.185357.12439@news.nd.edu> jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan) writes:
>: David Lodge: "How Far Can You Go?", Penguin Books, 1980. pp114-5.
>
>>>>The title of this book says it all.  Reminds me of my childish questions to
>>>>my father, "Dad how much sin can I do and still get into heaven?"
>
>: Yes, you're right, it's always best to examine the contents of a book just
>: by reading the title. What do you do with all the spare time?
>
>>I'm not sure how you drew the conclusion that I was examining the contents
>>of the book you mention.  On the face of it my statement indicates a
>>reminiscence of mine, upon reading the title.  Could you detail how you
>>drew the conclusion I was examining the contents of the book?
>
>(i) I read your post;
>(ii) I cleverly spotted the words "The title says it all";
>(iii) I cleverly inferred that you felt that, in some sense, the title said
>it all, or, to paraphrase, encapsulated the contents of the book;
>(iv) uh...
>(v) that's it.

Cleverness is next to ________________?

Peace,
John O'Callaghan


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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:22:47 HST
From:         Len Howard <tas@PEGASUS.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8:1-11)
              in Adultery (John 8:1-11)" (Jan 11, 11:02pm)

Oh my, Thomas, did you get no farther in my post that my quote about
scripture?  For if you did you would know that I am not an
inerrantist, and certainly do not hold with 'sola scriptoris'.  But by
the tenor of your posting, I discern that you and I would never agree
on anything theological, so I will merely wish you 'Shalom' rather
than to try to hold any sort of meaningful dialog with you.

Len Howard - tas@pegasus.com
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:57:17 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 08-Jan-1993 1355" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Saints in the Episcopal Church...

>The official calendar of the Episcopal Church is published in the
>Episcopal Church Annual, and St. Charles the Martyr is not and never
>has been listed.

That is, of course, the Episcopal Church in the United States.  Each national
Church may publish its own calendar.

Bl. Charles, King and Martyr, appears on the unofficial but heavily used
Ordo Kalendar which is distributed through many (most?) Episcopal parishes
in the U.S.

/john
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Saints in the Episcopal Church...
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 18:17:12 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

Boy, am I glad that I'm a big believer in the concept of no such thing as a
stupid question when I come up with one like this :-).

Anyway, I was wondering if any of my Episcopal/Anglican brothers and sisters
here can enlighten me on their church's position on sainthood.  I would assume
that the Episcopal Church recognizes the canonization of those persons who were
made saints before the split with Rome, but what about after that?  Does the
Episcopal Church canonize people on their own, or do they simply recognize
those canonized by Rome?




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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