HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: janeric@control.lth.se (Jan Eric Larsson)
Subject: Re: Awari Strategies
Organization: Dept. Automatic Control, Lund Inst. of Technology, Sweden
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:43:49


Hi!

From the look of the game boards you show, I guess that this game is
called Kalah. Correct me if I misunderstand you. Awari, or Ware, is
played on a board looking like this:

  4 4 4 4 4 4

  4 4 4 4 4 4

There are more complicated moving and taking rules, and games are long.

Concerning Kalah, one, two, and three stone Kalah can be solved by
full search. In an old AI book by Slagle and Dixon this is stated.
I wrote a small program myself, with the following printout:

Solving 1 stone Kalah

The beginner wins with 2 stones.
A total of 2546 nodes were searched.
The deepest variation was 14 ply.
The search took 0 seconds.


Solving 2 stone Kalah

The beginner wins with 6 stones.
A total of 1421452 nodes were searched.
The deepest variation was 49 ply.
The search took 13 seconds.


Solving 3 stone Kalah

The beginner wins with 2 stones.
A total of 273277910 nodes were searched.
The deepest variation was 96 ply.
The search took 43900 seconds.


These were times when run on a SPARC station 2. I didn't record the
best moves here, but the principal variation starts with either a or
b. For three stone Kalah it is a, if I remember correctly.

   3 3 3 3 3 3
 0             0
   3 3 3 3 3 3
           ^ ^
           a b

Hope this helps...



Jan Eric Larsson                  JanEric@Control.LTH.Se      +46 46 108795
Department of Automatic Control
Lund Institute of Technology     "We watched the thermocouples dance to the
Box 118, S-221 00 LUND, Sweden    spirited tunes of a high frequency band."
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Subject: Re: Othello Puzzle #2
Originator: neilb@csparc2
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:48:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.110529.18531@odin.diku.dk> torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:
>cmspring@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Colin Springer) writes:
>
>>Othello Puzzle #2:
>
>>  [puzzle deleted]
>
>[proposed solution deleted]

When puzzles are posted (for Othello or otherwise), could the puzzle poster
give a date when their solution will be posted.  Could others please refrain
from posting their solutions/discussion until after the `official' solution
has been posted.  Thanks.

Neil
ObMove: I remove the green cap, pass it to the next player, and promote
	a gherkin to a pickled onion.
From: ahanysz@spam.ua.oz (Alexander Hanysz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: n-d tic-tac-toe (was Re: What???)
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:52:02 GMT
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1992Nov11.090824.22987@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pschwrtz@lynx.cs.washington.edu (Paul Schwartz) writes:
>	I was hopping that playing tic_tac _toe in n dimensions was playing
>it in n dimensions not just a larger board in three dimensions.  Ah well.
>Paul

I've always played on a board of side three.  Of course, if you play
3x3x3, first to get a line wins, then it's an easy win for the first
player.  My solution (pinched from some Mensa puzzle book; I can't
remember the title) is to play on a four dimensional board, 3x3x3x3, and
the first player to get a 3x3 plane wins.

								Alex.
From: blom@husc15.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: A little Usenet etiquette
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:36:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc15.1992Nov10.163631.17314
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Could people PLEASE briefly describe the rules of games they discuss on the
net?  Many of us have not played the games before but are interested in them
and would like to try them out.  Here, I am speaking specifically about the
Awari and Kalah postings. . .  Anyway, I'm sure there are others out there who
agree.  To talk about games without describing them saves little bandwidth and
if quite unfriendly to the uninitiated.  WE ARE PEOPLE TOO!  :)
From: mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] The One True Cross")
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: What???
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:52:44 GMT
	<6XB==z#@engin.umich.edu>
Organization: Eaters of Wisdom
In-reply-to: positron@engin.umich.edu's message of 10 Nov 92 08:31:29 GMT

In article <6XB==z#@engin.umich.edu> positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas) writes:
>   (As someone has already pointed out, 3x3x3 and 3x3x3x3 tic-tac-toe are
>   sure wins for the first player... 4x4x4 and 4x4x4x4 are not, though)

I believe 4-in-a-row on a 4x4x4 board has been shown to be a
first-player win.  It is very difficult, however.  

    A winning strategy for the first player in 4x4x4 4-in-a-row converts
immediately to a winning strategy for 4x4x4x4 4-in-a-row, of course;
choose one of the 3-dimensional subspaces of the hypercube, and play
3-dimensional tic-tac-toe there.  If your opponent plays in the same
space, use your winning strategy.  If he plays elsewhere, it's like
having free moves.
--

                And for to se, and eek for to be seye
Mark-Jason Dominus 	  			    mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: What???
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:38:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1dpa4fINN2dv
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

scottie@sequent.com (Scott Thurston) writes:

 > And then, we could form rec.games.surreal, ....

1.  Elephant & Castle

Now somebody else take a turn.

-- John W Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
From: palmerd@holst.cs.unc.edu (Daniel Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Othello
Summary: (a yeah vote!)
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:33:05 GMT

In article <BxJ8MI.J9w@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, cmspring@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Colin Springer) writes:
. I'm an avid Othello player, and would be interested to hear from any
. other fans of the game out there.  Is there an interest, for example,
. in seeing Othello puzzles, annotated game transcripts, and the like?
. How much do people on the net know about the game?  My experience in
. the past has been that most people know very little about proper play,
. which involves primarily mobility optimization rather than control of key
. squares, such as edges.  Would anyone be interested in a sporadic
. series of posts covering basic Othello strategy and tactics?  I'd be
. more than willing to contribute anything I can to this group, given
. enough interest.


Please do! I'd be very interested in seeing some posts on Othello strategy.

Thanks,

-Dan
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton)
Subject: Sprouts -- a topological game
Keywords: sprout, sprouts
Organization: Twin Peaks Municipal Software Works
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:24:39 GMT


Sprouts:  Uses pen and paper, or equivalent.  Initially some number of dots
are drawn on the paper.  Play alternates, where each player draws a line
connecting any two dots, and draws another dot somewhere on the line.
Subject to the restrictions that:  (1) No more than 3 lines meet at any
"point", and (2) No lines may cross.  First player unable to play loses.

A 2-point game would proceed

1.  Initial:
		*           *
2.
		*------*----*
3.
		*------*----*
		 \    /
		  ---*
4.
		      (d)
	    (x) *------*----* (a)
		 \    /      \
		  ---*--------* (b)
		    (c)

Move 5 either ends the game if (a)-(b) are joined by a line "inside"
the trapezoid (a)-(b)-(c)-(d).  If (a)-(b) are joined by a line "outside" 
the trapezoid then another move can be made joining (x) and the new point.  
Ain't ASCII great?
	
I think this was another SciAm game from days gone by.  It gets pretty hairy
after about 7 points.

  John
--
						"The Smart Money was on Goliath"
						John Hallyburton 43 55'N 71 45'W
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Eleusis, and _New Rules for Classic Games_
From: "Jonathan R. Ferro" <jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:53:43 -0500 
 eastern.edu><DBH.92Nov11102845@wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk><1992Nov11.122137.10243@pel
 lns.alleg.edu><pquince.721508467@blacks><BxKyF7.4xw@cs.psu.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

flee@cs.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes:
> Eleusis is not a pure strategy game.  (If these interlopers keep
> invading the newsgroup, then perhaps it's time to completely redo
> rec.games.* :-)

Yes, but it IS a highly abstract game and was specifically considered
when the creation of this group was discussed.  Actually, this group has
set a record in my mind for "highest signal-to-noise ratio after only
three days in existence", so I don't think anything really needs to be
done, except for discouraging the people who wanted to play Nomic here
instead of via email.

> The rules for Eleusis can be found in
>         New Rules for Classic Games / R. Wayne Schmittberger, 1992
> 
> Here, it says Eleusis was invented in 1956 and revised between 1973
> and 1976, so the version in the 1977 Mathematical Games column should
> be current.

The current set of rules (much improved, IMHO) is to be found in one of
the new Martin Gardner books published in the late 80's.  (I think it's
"Wheels, Life, and other Mathematical Amusements", but I don't remember
exactly and none of the libraries around here have it.)

> _New Rules_ describes many games, game variants, new uses for your
> moldering game equipment, techniques for modifying and repairing the
> rules of games, etc.  A very interesting book.
> 
> Table of Contents
> [Deleted]

This was VERY interesting, and has just been added to the list of game
books that I must at least have a prolonged look at, if not buy.  Could
someone post a similar list for Sid Sackson's "A Gamut of Games"?

-- Jon Ferro               Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: rpowers@panix.com (Richard Powers)
Subject: Re: Chess in non-euclidian space 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:57:32 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Nov11.161535.20791@cc.umontreal.ca> royd@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Roy Daniel) writes:

>For my part, I am currently working on a 4D chess. Any other ideas?

There already is a 4D chess.  It is called Timeline, and it is copyright
1985 by Gearge Marino.  I don't have time to describe it now (if, in fact,
I could do it right), but I do have the address for Geo Games (*if* it is
still accurate.

	Geo Games
	24 Tupelo
	Naperville, IL 60540
	USA


The same person came up with the only *playable* 3D chess I have ever seen.


-- 
rpowers@panix.com                .sig file...             ...just a .sig file.
From: tuc@calico.cs.wisc.edu (Brian A. Cole)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Chess on spherical boards.  [oops, I was wrong]
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:31:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.tuc.721668695
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

tuc@calico.cs.wisc.edu (Brian A. Cole) writes:
] #         a d c b b c d a
] #         g . . . . . . j        Squares with the
] #         f . . . . . . i        same letter touch.
] #         e . . . . . . h
] #         e . . . . . . h        Think of folding the
] #         f . . . . . . i        corners up till they
] #         g . . . . . . j        meet above the center.
] #         a m l k k l m a
   ...
]                                                      Also, if you pick
] any two adjacent squares for the white king and queen to start on, and
] then put the other 30 pieces down in the correct squares (relative to
] the king and queen), the game is mathematically the same no matter which
] initial squares you picked.

This is, of course, absolutely wrong, so I retract it.  I don't know what
came over me.

I think it would be nice to have a board with this property, though.
Can it be done?

brian
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     _______    _____     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brian A. Cole                 |_   _  |  |  ___|    Most people think disc golf
  tuc@cs.wisc.edu               | | | |__| |___     is a joke.    It is not.
  ...!uwvax!cs.wisc.edu!tuc     |_| |__________|    That gives us the element
                                                    of surprise.
From: garnet@borland.com (Garnet Chaney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: What???
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:34:45 GMT
Organization: Borland International
Originator: garnet@genghis.borland.com

In article <1992Nov10.040647.17812@ncsu.edu> bjbisset@eos.ncsu.edu (BILLY JOE BISSETTE) writes:
>
> Isn't this group just so amazing, there was such an outpouring of votes for
>this group, now someones dream is here.  And I still can't figure out the
>purpose of it.
>-- 
>----------bill the insane cultist, bjbisset@eos.ncsu.edu
>Please make a donation to the "Raise a Great Old One" Foundation.
>Everyone chant with me:  Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
>                         Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
>

Who says there must be a purpose to it?
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: nicholso@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Melvin H. Nicholson YBH)
Subject: Re: Misc games
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:47:10 GMT

boll@CS.ColoState.EDU (dave boll) writes:
>
>Below are three short games I've played. I'd be interested to
>know if anyone has played these games, has thoughts on strategy,
>etc.
>
>  1) The 'knight's tour' game. Start with a chess knight on a corner
>  2) The game with no name. Play on 1/2 a chessboard (4x8). Each player
>     has a chess king (which moves just like in chess). A move in this
>     game consists of making a move with your king, then marking any
>     square on the board. The square you marked then may not be moved
>     onto by either player. Last person able to move wins. The starting
>     positions are squares (2,2) and (3,7) in col/row notation.

A game essentially equivalent to the one you mention (change board
dimensions a little and make the starting immune to marking) was
marketed under the name "isolation"

It had a tile board where you "marked" a square by punching it through
the supporting platic grid, leaving a hole.

Mel


Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: nik@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Nik Silver)
Subject: New game: Think Small
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:34:08 GMT

In honour of the creation of the rec.games.abstract newsgroup, this is an
announcement of a strange game to confound and confuse. Everyone is encouraged
to enter, and the rules are as follows:
	
	(1) Think of any whole number greater than or equal to 1.
	(2) Mail me with that number as the Subject line of your message.
	(3) After a certain date and time, whoever has mailed me the lowest
	    number THAT NO-ONE ELSE HAS SENT wins (and gets a small and
	    insignificant prize).
	(4) You may not enter more than once.
	
Notes:
	(a) Mail will be processed automatically, so the subject line
	    must consist *only* of digits in the range 0 to 9.
	(b) Closing date is 12 noon GMT on Friday 13th November 1992.

That's it.  Good luck,
-- 
Nik ``nik@scs.leeds.ac.uk'' Silver
From: mjd@saul.cis.upenn.edu ("[*] Fan of the Efts")
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Re: Chess on spherical boards.
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:44:05 GMT
	<1992Nov11.161535.20791@cc.umontreal.ca>
	<1992Nov11.191304.19055@math.utexas.edu>
	<MJD.92Nov11174539@saul.cis.upenn.edu> <tuc.721523968@cs.wisc.edu>
Organization: Eaters of Wisdom
In-reply-to: tuc@calico.cs.wisc.edu's message of 11 Nov 92 23:19:28 GMT

In article <tuc.721523968@cs.wisc.edu> tuc@calico.cs.wisc.edu (Brian A. Cole) writes:
>   I don't think this behaves the way you want it to.  Consider the bishop
>   starting in F1 that wants to move one sqare "southeast". 

    A1.  The bishop could also have moved to H2 or G3 instead.  Or,
going `southwest', to C1, D2, or E3.  Note that the white-square bishop
has just turned into a black-sqare bisop.  That's the breaks.

>   "squares" (actually closer to triangles) at the "pinched" ends meet three
>   other spaces at edges and meet seven (!) others at its corners (five of
>   these at the pole).

    I must be missing something.  I think E1 is adjacent to D2, E2, F2;
D1, F1; and H1, A1, B1, and no others, which makes eight total, as it
should be.

>   Again, I think the only way (up to isomorphism) to do it is this way:

    Any time you try to bend a chessboard into a funny shape some
properties are going to change, to talking about an `only way' without
first discussing the properties you want to preserve is a little silly.
The board I've shown has some desirable properties (uniformity,
diagonals are great circles) and some undesirable ones.  (Diagonals are
each half black and half white.)  Yours has some good points and some
weak points too. (Left `k' is adjacent to right `k' in two different
directions, for example.)
--

                And for to se, and eek for to be seye
Mark-Jason Dominus 	  			    mjd@central.cis.upenn.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan Baljeu)
Subject: Re: Tic-Tac-Toe
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:23:04 GMT

 (Anders Thulin) writes:
>>
>>For any game, let us call [p,d,s,l] the parameter vector.
>>[2,3,4,4] is non-trivial, according to TicTactics, from the

>This is also known as Qubic. I vaguely recollect reading that a number
>of game programs were no longer allowed at the Computer Games Olympiad
>(or whatever it's called), mainly because they had been shown to have
>a known solution. Wasn't Qubic among those?

Qubic is a game that was solved.
However, in Qubic, a move (x,y,z) is legal if z = 1 (bottom) or (x,y,z-1)
was played.  The game [2,3,4,4] game does not have this restriction.

Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: ant@mks.com (Anthony Howe)
Subject: Re: New Topic
Keywords: n
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:05:00 GMT

BILLY JOE BISSETTE writes:
>
>Nicholas P Palmer writes:
>|>New Topic New Topic
>|>
>|>You know, Maybe it's about conceptual role playing games, or playing
>|>darts on pieces of modern art?
>|>
>|>In any case.  Have any of ya'll played
>|>conceptual type games of any sorts?
>|>(Not like Amber, no dice..)
>|>We're talking no paper, no dice, just a GM and some people starting
>|>a story and interacting and seeing what's what???
>|>
> While I'll admit these games can be fun with a good GM, there isn't much to say
>about them.  No real rules discussion, or talks about skill % versus a level
>system, no real meat.

I beg to diff about no real system or meat.  I once played such a game
during a 7 hour car ride where I was driving and acting as GM.  We were
playing using the Paranoia system.  I had read the GM's guide and had a
rough idea at teh time of how the game played, yet like many role playing
games I found that the administration for both player and GM can take
more time than game itself.  I focused more on the concept than on the
nit-pit details of the character skills and knowledge.  

Maybe as a topic of discussion, guidelines for Conceptual Role Playing
could be prepared.  I know they would be simple but the idea is to be able
to remember them in your head, remain fair, and consistent.  It is the
sort of thing I could see playing with a family during a car or plane
trip.  The fun comes from the interactive story being created and guided
and refereed by the GM.

-ant
-- 
ant@mks.com                                                   Anthony C Howe 
Mortice Kern Systems Inc. 35 King St. N., Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, N2J 6W9
"Nice legs.  For a human that is." - Worf (Q-pid)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:57:03 EST
From: Jeff Raven <JAR129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Computerized Kalah

Kalah not being a particularly well-known game, the only opponent I have
around here is a computer program I hacked out for my PC. And, while it
plays a good game, I'm interested in improving its algorithm. Currently,
the programs relies on an alpha-beta search and a static position
evaluator, but both the search and the evaluator could use some
improvement.

Here's the way they currently work. The static value of a board is
determined by simply taking the difference between the number of stones
in your pit and your opponent's - the higher the value, the better.
Meanwhile the alpha-beta search uses a window originally defined by
                      ALPHA = 2 * MY_SCORE - 72
                      BETA  = 72 - 2 * HIS_SCORE
where MY_SCORE and HIS_SCORE are the number of stones in my and his score
pits, respectively.

The problem is, especially with the values of ALPHA and BETA, that
they're not very precise. Clearly, the final score of the game must
always be between ALPHA and BETA, but they provide a rather weak
limit, since they correspond to the two situations where your opponent
wins all the remaining points and you do. So what I'd like to know is,
does anyone have any suggestions about how I could either a) improve
ALPHA, BETA and the evaluator, or b) change the algorithm from
alpha-beta to something that would work better.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jeff Raven
jar129@psuvm.psu.edu
From: akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
Subject: Penrose Chess
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:59:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: math.1992Nov13.185928.13468
Organization: University of Texas at Austin Mathematics

We define a non-move called Expansion: 
Players A and B take turns laying down 64 Penrose tiles according to
the established Penrose rules.

White draws a random tile from a bag places it on the table. Expansion
occurs.  Players place their chess pieces as far from each other as they
can. They start to play chess [modified rules would need to be made.]

If current_player says: "There's not enough room on the board for me
to make my next move" then one expansion occurs. current_player must move.
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Subject: Re: Collection of small games
Originator: neilb@csparc2
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:40:38 GMT

In rec.games.abstract elascurn@daimi.aau.dk (Lars R{der Clausen) writes:
>Seeing as to how a lot of small nifty games spring up in this newsgroup, I'd
>like to hear if somebody could gather them together for a (sort of) FAQ. Maybe
>a FPG (Frequently Posted Games) or something. Could be nice to have a small
>book of these itty-bitty games handy. Anyone volunteer?

I have arranged an anonymous ftp site for rec.games.abstract, the details
of which I will post shortly.  This will hold the distilled knowledge and
wisdom (?) of this group.  Some of the things it will provide:

	o	rules for games

	o	other information on games: history, strategies,
		lists of email players?

	o	pointers to other things available via ftp elsewhere.

	o	programs not (readily) available elsewhere.

I'll post something regularly giving details of what's (new) in the
archive.  Any other suggestions for useful things to include are welcome.

Neil
Newsgroups: rec.games.abstract