HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: U.S. Aid To Israel?????
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:49:17 GMT

In <1992Apr11.171801.25034@ddsw1.MCS.COM> arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack
Schmidling) writes:

>It sounds a lot like the reason we do not lean on them for their
>nuke program.  It would be admiting that they are violatioj
>violating our laws rega]Ogding regarding foreign aid to nuk
>to nuke proliferators.  Israel is breaking our laws and we should deny
>them foreign aid so to keep it flowing, we make believe we don't really
>know.

Yes, ARF, I agree that the U.S. should extend its laws throughout the
world, just as it did in Panama.  What a glorious new world order!

D\377av?diA  SoOKSoll.  (Oh no, it's a virus...)

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<JIME.92Apr7173950@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr7.225254.2260@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:01:51

In article <1992Apr7.225254.2260@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>   In article <JIME.92Apr7173950@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu> jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>   >Such violence between factions of a disappropriated group are common:
>   >the Palestinians, the pre-Israel Zionists, the Afghan "freedom
>   >fighters", and the South African blacks have all fought each other
>   >even when their common goal has (had) not been achieved (yet).
>
>   I don't think the Palestinians  who are collaborating with Israel have the
>   same goals as those who are resisting the Israeli occupation.

Well, I must admit that the word "common" is ambiguous in my above
paragraph.  I didn't mean common within each particular group.  They
must have different goals, otherwise they wouldn't be fighting among
themselves.  Rather I meant that the overall groups mentioned above
have/had a common goal: independence from (foreign) occupation and a
national homeland.

--
=Jim  jime%atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:15:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.031840.22727@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.232537.27270@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.195927.15326@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>>>
>>>Do you compare stones with bullets?  How many Israeli policemen
>>>died from stones and how many Palestinian youth were killed
>>>by life amunition? Compare the numbers.
>>
>>Do you compare photographs with aggravated assault? To what extent
>>did the person being photographes suffer physical attack from the
>>camera, and to what extent did the students suffer physical attack
>>in return? Please take your double standard home.
>>
>
>Do you compare a couple of punches to a couple of bullets?
>Certainly the Palestinian youth who are being killed would
>rather be punched than have their lifes taken.

True; but then, they were doing things somewhat worse than taking a
photograph, so it evens out. 

>If you return to the original article, it says at the end
>that the two Jewish men didn't sustain injuries.  Their
>camera did.

From what I read of the original article, it was pure dumb luck 
combined with incompetence on the part of the attacker that made
them escape without injury. Somehow I don't think that if an Israeli
soldier shot at some Palestinians and missed, your protests would
be any less shrill for that. You're trying to find a way to say that
hurting Jews is okay and hurting Arabs is not, and you're doing very
badly at it.

	-Nora


-- 
Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.german
From: doit@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (armin.roeseler)
Subject: Re: Still Waiting For Your Views On The Turkish Genocide, 'Milanini.'
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:38:22 GMT

In article <m0lbf3d-0003YPC@ddsw1.mcs.com> han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:
>
>Source #1: McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of 
>Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York University Press, 
>New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.
>

Oooops, a software glitch. The correct reference, of course, should have
been: McCarthy, J., "Some philosophical problems from the standpoint of
artificial intelligence." In "Machine Intelligence" by B. Meltzer and 
D. Michie, Edinburgh, Edinburgh University Press, 1969.

My apologies to all of you who were confused by this mishap. But we are
still debugging hasan.b.mutlu. For all of you who are not familiar with the
project, let me briefly update you. HBM, or, as some of us
call it lovingly, handsome.b.meatloaf, is an artificial intelligence 
project here at the Labs. Currently, it may not represent the the state
of the art of reasoning, but it's *reference pulling* and *obnoxious* and
*stubborn* routines work to perfection. We are now working on the
*gimme a break* routines to add somewhat of a human touch.

Thank you all for participating in this ongoing Turing test!


Regards,

Armin
--
Armin Roeseler, Ph.D.    Computing        AT&T Bell Laboratories
a.roeseler@att.com       Technology       2000 North Naperville Road
(708) 979-4823           Department       Naperville, ILL 60566, USA



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: Jerusalem
Organization: Bradley University
Date:  7 Apr 92 15:06:31 GMT

In <hydra.702418708@huey> hydra@huji.ac.il (Yoav Gonen) writes:

>cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman) writes:

>>There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as the
>>Palestinians insist on having Jerusalem as their national
>>capitol. Of course the same could be said for the Israeli siad
>>of the story. In my opinion, the city will have to eventually
>>become an international city, either co-governed by both sides
>>or by the UN.

>I believe that more than 95% of the Israelis agree that Jerusalem must be 
>stayed united and under Israeli rule. This is also written explicitly in both
>Likud and Labour platforms. Further more - there is a policy for 20 years now
>that Jerusalem must be expanded more and more: two big districs: Ramot and Gilo
>where built in the OccTerr and are now part of Jerusalem. Many cities and towns
>are surrounding Jerusalem: like Pisgat Zeev, Maale Edumim, Givat Zeev, Givat
>Haradar and more and more. So the Palestinians must understand that there can
>be a compromise in lands - but Jerusalem is not included and never will.

>It hurts me to see a Jew proposes something that involves the UN in the matter
>of Jerusalem. We had bad experiences with the UN throughout the years and now,
>when the Jews are the masters of themselves - we must not do stupid
>things and must keep our state in one piece. When the first UN soldier enters
>the city - there will be no future for the state of the Jews and for the Jewish
>World in particular...

I used to believe that Jerusalem would have to remain Jewish now and
forever. However, some compromise might have to be made. Mind you, I 
would not return control of the city rto the Palestinians. Ever. I just
think that *after* a comprehensive peace is signed, that it may be 
possible to compromise. Of course, I would prefer the city to remain
Israeli, and to just let the Palestinians have the West Bank and Gaza;
if that happened, I would allow the Palestinians free passage to their
Jerusalem holy sites in return for Jewish free passage to our holy sites
in the West Bank.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: Nadia: Cool Out / History & Scholarship
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 12:16:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.233919.18389@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric) writes:

>>If I remember correctly from my reading of "Transfer Agreement" and
>>"Zionism in the Age of Dictators" about two years ago, the cooperation
>>with Germany was not by "a small splinter group" at all.  It representated
>>dominant Zionist policy.
>
>Obviously, you don't; Leon Gross has refuted this.  Plus, the bias of
>both these sources has clearly been shown, and I think anyone who has
>fairness in his or her mind would strongly doubt both sources' veracity.
>Face it, Behnam, your arguments have been completely refuted.

Hello, Eric.  How are you?

Let me reply to your paragraph sentence by sentence.  You say,
"Leon Gross has refuted this."  I haven't seen such refutation
(I am following the discussion from soc.culture.arabic).  In fact,
I haven't seen him comment on the book Transfer Agreement at all.

Then you say "the bias of both these sources been shown."   It doesn't
require any effort to prove the bias of any book:   Every book is
biased in favor of its thesis!  

Then you say everybody in his right mind should doubt the veracity
of these sources.     Four comments:  

i)  I think everybody in his/her right mind should "doubt" the veracity 
of ANY sources, not just these two.  (i.e. don't accept anything blindly).

ii) The fact that one source is by a staunch Zionist makes it rather
"unlikely" that his goal was to attack Zionism.  If anything, he 
probably wanted to put a good face on the actions of Zionists.

iii)  Leon Gross didn't discredit Brenner's book.  He refuted only a 
small part of it (and I am not able to confirm/oppose Mr. Gross's
refutation). 

iv)  I haven't seen anything by Mr. Gross on the book Transfer Agreement.
 
>It is true.  However, Behnam, what is the chance that he could get a
>fair trial in Syria?  I'd say essentially zero, given his connections in
>the Syrian government.  Plus, there is a principle both in American and
>other nations' laws that says that if possible the accused must fully
>confront the charges and evidence against him.  This could *not* be done
>in Syria.  

I appreciate your reply.  Since I know close to nothing about Syria's
judicial system, I don't have any comment on what you say above.

>Your answer avoids the question.  Alois Brunner should be
>extradited to ISRAEL for trial.

*Assuming* everything you said above was correct, then this conclusion
does not follow!   A more logical conclusion would be that Syria must
first clean up its judicial system and then put the alleged Nazi 
criminal on trial.    Another equally logical conclusion may be that
(*depending* on what extradition treaties Syria has with other countries,
IF ANY) Syria must extradite the alleged criminal to his country of
citizenship, which I doubt is Israel.

Behnam Sadeghi


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.iranian
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: SC WARNS IRAQ
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:48:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1483500207:000:1667
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Apr 14 11:48:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: SC WARNS IRAQ

/* Written  3:38 pm  Apr 14, 1992 by peg:unic in cdp:unic.news */
/* ---------- "SC WARNS IRAQ" ---------- */
						      SC/5395
						      IK/100
						      10 April
						      1992


    SECURITY COUNCIL WARNS IRAQ NOT TO INTERFERE WITH OR THREATEN
    SECURITY

      OF AIRCRAFT AND PERSONNEL OF SPECIAL COMMISSION DURING
      OVERFLIGHTS


     The President of the Security Council, Sambarashe
Simbanenduku Mumbengegwi (Zimbabwe), issued the following
statement to the press this evening, following consultations of
the Council:

     The members of the Security Council have learnt with grave
concern from the Executive Chairman of the Special Commission of
recent developments which appear to call for a halt in and
constitute a threat to the safety and security of the Special
Commission's aerial surveillance flights over Iraq.  The members
of the Council wish to point out that the surveillance flights are
carried out under the authority of Security Council resolutions
687, 707 and 715 (1991).

     Reaffirming the right of the Special Commission to conduct
such aerial surveillance flights, the members of the Council call
upon the Government of Iraq to take all the necessary steps to
ensure that the Iraqi military forces will not interfere with or
threaten the security of the flights concerned and to comply with
its responsibilities to secure the safety of the Special
Commission's aircraft and personnel while flying over Iraq.  The
members of the Council warn the Government of Iraq of the serious
consequences which would ensue from any failure to comply with
these obligations.

				    * *** *
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ERIC PERLIMAN, WHY DO YOU IGNORE MY BET, I CHALLENGE YOU.
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:23:01 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Apr14.231940.2407939@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> 
> you are proving your ignorance of where Nahr ALbared is,


	So much from someone who maintains that Israel is in
	Frankfurt, Tel Aviv is in Palestine, and Israeli soldiers
	look like Germans.

 
> jle

Noam
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.iranian
From: arash@sunee.waterloo.edu (Arash Jahangir)
Subject: Re: Mojahedin Attacks
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:12:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.185352.14449@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>Don't these people have any relatives in Iran? 

Most likely not.  These people have most likely been arrested by the regime
before.  When they arrest you in Iran for serious political reasons, they also
torture you enough to reveal the locations of all your friends and family 
members.  They then go to arrest those people and ask them for the locations of
their friends and relatives and so on.  This means that if your brother has
become a political prinsoner, you are going to recieve regular visits from
the "pAsdAr" "Brothers" regularly.  Hence in all likelihood you will leave the
country.

>How can they excuse this
>kind of behaviour?

I never aprove of senseless violance.  But I think considering the amount of
suffering that an average opposition member receives from the government in
Iran, the MKO's  insane actions are understandable (not to be confused with
excuseable).

>How does beating ambassadors and representatives and
>destroying records and property further their goals?

This is yet another example of how MKOs indirectly help the regime.  By their
behavior in this case, they have portrayed the regime's advocates (and not 
just the MKO's alone) as violant and senseless people.  They have somewhat
told the world that perhaps the regime should use an iron hand since its 
oppostion is a very unreasonable one.  We all know that this is not true.
But you can be rest assured that the regime will use such event to their 
full extent in their propaganda.


Regards,
 Arash

*****************************************************************************

If you want to destroy something, do not attack it.  Rather defend it badly.
							Dr. Ali Shari'aty

I maintain that the current regime in Iran has done an astonishingly good job
in "badly" defending Iran and Islam.

*****************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:11005 talk.politics.soviet:3477 soc.culture.greek:3384
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: So, Where Is The Beef, 'Skartsis?'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:37:00 GMT


<1992Apr14.160935@imhfhp16.epfl.ch>
gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (GAVRILAKIS Spyros IMHEF DME EPFL)

>'It is more than a year since Greece promised strict implementation of
>a medium-term stabilisation programme in return for Ecu 1.1bn EC loan.
>But annual inflation is still stubornly high at 18.3%, despite a public
>sector pay freeze, while public debt, which amounted to 95%(!!) of GDP
>last year, shows little sign of shrinking.

95%? I have nothing to add to this comment.

>Growth of GDP in 1990 : 0.1%

Speaks for itself; Turkiye, notwithstanding the high population
growth, has been able to achieve a sustained growth rate not less
than 6 percent over the last decade.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10889 soc.culture.iranian:3471
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (3rd)
Organization: AT&T Migration Systems
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:40:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.232848.1@max.u.washington.edu> imnet2@max.u.washington.edu writes:

[deleted to save space]

>the conquest of Jerusalem for Christendom. Columbus believed that the world
>was round and that by sailing west a ship would arrive at the fabled
>countries of the east, opening a trade route by which gold and spices
>could be brought to Europe. With the wealth accumulated from this
>trade a campaign could be launched to re-conquer Jerusalem. Columbus
>dedicated his life to this purpose and studied astronomy, map-making and
>navigation.
>
>Most of the scientific knowledge in Europe at that time had been
>learnt from Muslim scholars who believed that the world was a sphere. Some
>had even postulated that the earth rotated on its own axis. Astronomers

Actually, the scholars of that time knew that the world was round.
Columbus claimed that the circumferance of the world was smaller
than the (correct) calculated value which had been known since the
time of the Greeks.  The ships of that time could not make it from
Europe to Asia as the distance was too great.  Columbus had two
posiible reasons for his claims.

1.  He was in error in his arithmetic and actually believed the
world to be smaller than it is.

2.  He had some evidence that there was land (of some sort) within
reach between Europe and Asia but lied to the court to get them to
back him.

I have seen some claims that Columbus had had access to Viking
records of the landings on "Vinland" but I no longer remember where
this is from.  I also have seen some claims that various pieces of
evidence washed up in the canaries as well as fishrmen's tales of
seeing some things that were evidence.

Again since there had been no official discovery of this, he lied
to the court to get the backing.  Also, I believe that the ships
were some old ships crewed by prisoners from the jails so the court
did not have very much to lose if (when) he failed,

At that, if he had not falsified his log records, the crew would
have forced him to turn back much earlier and he would not have
made it across.

Hillel Markowitz        H_Markowitz@att.com
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10991 talk.politics.soviet:3463 soc.culture.greek:3370 soc.culture.nordic:2939
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Who'll Be The Next 'iesd.auc.dk' President? 'Lars P. Fisher?'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:33:00 GMT



<FISCHER.92Apr15000752@thor.iesd.auc.dk>
fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)

Lars> I know that your not a moron like Hasan B. Mutlu.
Lars> There's no need for to you act like one.

Hasan> Now for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews -
Hasan> [...]

>Thanks for proving my point, Hasan.

Remember, straying off the ranch into the land of pecadilloes can hurt 
you a lot, 'Lars.'

>BTW, do you have a macro or something for that Newsgroups: line?

You don't have to be enemies with the newsgroups, 'Fischer.' Well, anyway,
it is on the record that the British said to local Armenians, 

'You kill the Muslims and we will supply you with arms and ammunition.'[1]

Armenian volunteers concentrated at the Turkish border in Caucasia,[2]
and then attacked Van,[3] Bitlis,[4] Nakhichevan,[4] Beyazit,[5] and
Kars and Erzurum.[6] The Commander fo the 15th Army Corps wrote that Armenian 
units had attacked many Turkish villages with artillery and machine guns,
that the local people's goods and animals had been usurped, that young women
had been taken away, the women and children had been tortured to death in
the mountains, that these attacks on the properties, lives and honor of the
Muslims were still being perpetrated.[7]

[1] BBA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, 212/404, 6 October 1904-1919.
[2] BBA, Dahiliye Nezareti: Sifre Kalemi: 20.vi.1919, 86/53/40.59.
[3] BBA, Dahiliye Nezareti: Kalem-i Mahsus, November 1335 (1919), document
    no. 8339/98.
[4] BBA, Dahiliye Nezareti: Kalem-i Mahsus, 28.viii.1919. cipher no. 7620.
[5] Belgelerle Ermeni Sorunu (Ankara, 1983), p. 370.
[6] Ibid., p. 371.
[7] For information on the Armenian genocide of the Muslims: Islam Ahalinin
    Ducar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat, 1919.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)