HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil (Michael Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Alternatives to running with achey knees
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:40:10 GMT
Distribution: na

Some background:
34 y.o., 225#, 6', not a couch potato, but not very athleticly (sp?)
inclined - say 40# overweight.

About 12 years ago, while in the military, I began running, and 
ran every other day or so, about 1-2 miles, on a track.  That became
very boring, and I dropped it.

Recently, I've decided to get back into it, after reading Jim Fixx's
first Complete Book of Running.  I started slow-
1st week - walk 20min., walk 30 min., then twice of run 2 min, walk 4
		for 30 mins total.
2nd week - 4 days of run 2 min, walk 3, 30 min. a day.
3rd week - (started this past Wednesday).
	Youch!  My knees are killing me!  Generally sore to walk,
	and I'm afraid to run for fear I'll really screw something up.
	They've been getting progressively sorer for the last 
	4 or 5 days.  Yesterday instead of running, I walked for 
	20 minutes.  When I got home, I took an 800mg Motrin I had
	left over from a previous muscle ache, and the soreness
	went away completely.

So, my questions are:

1) Is this kind of soreness common for beginners?  Can I expect it
	to fade?  If so, should I refrain from running until it does,	
	or press on with running?
2) should I be extra cautious and perhaps find an alternative to 
	running, like a Nordic Trak, stair stepper, or treadmill?
	What is the conventional wisdom on these means of getting
	aerobic exercise?

Any other suggestions, comments, etc. are greatly appreciated.


--
|   Michael G. Hart                   mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     You think _I_ speak for the government or the navy?  HAH!      |
| Aviation, computers, quality improvement, Northern Exposure, money |
Xref: sparky rec.running:2832 rec.bicycles:23198 rec.bicycles.misc:900
From: jpmorgen@wisp4.physics.wisc.edu (Jeff Morgenthaler)
Newsgroups: rec.running,rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: cold weather running/riding gloves
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:14:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: wisp4.JPMORGEN.92Oct15221457
Organization: Space Physics, UW - Madison

I find that I need to pay about $20 for saticefactory windproof/semi
waterproof gloves. 

For cycling, I have been happy with Nashbar "storm shelter" gloves,
but they are only good between 35 and 50 F.  Below this, I go with a
beefy x-country ski glove by Gates, but they only last to 20 F or so.
When it's much below 20, I use some ridiculously thick down mittens.
Generally, I find that additional "cycling specific" gloves over
thicker gloves are not needed.  I will use cycling gloves over glove
liners between 50 and 60 F.

For running and x-country skiing, you can subtract 10 F from these
temperatures.  Also for these activeties I keep a $5 pair of glove
liners in my pocket to extend the range of the gloves by 5 F or so.
If it's not windy + above 30 F, the liners are all I need once I get
going. 
j
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: spesau@acs.ucalgary.ca (Shane P Esau)
Subject: Re: Pulse monitors
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:52:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Oct14.100547.22661@ll.mit.edu> rp@llex.ll.mit.edu ( Richard Pavelle) writes:
>
>Has someone had experience with these? I would like to know the
>price range and whether they are convenient to use when running.
>Is the display easy to read, for example. Thanks.
>
I have the Polar Accurex.  It cost about $250 Canadian.  Creative
Health has them for about $199 US, but I am not sure.  

I find the Accurex to be a very good model.  It is very easy to
use, has high and low limits, and has a good readout.  Although
the new Polar products have larger readouts and thus might be
even easier to use.

Some training partners of mine have the Polar Vantage XL and find
it very helpful in their training in that they can download their
heart rates into a PC or a Mac.  the problem with the Vantage XL
is that it is very costly (about $400 for the unit, and then
another $400 for the hardware and software to download).  

My advice is to go to a store which sells the Polar products
(they seem to be the most popular), and try them out.

Shane
From: wolf@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tom Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: TAC numbers and Boston
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:06:34 GMT
Organization: Ohio University C.S. Dept, Athens


     In esponse to a ? asked on this net, you do need a TAC number
for Boston M., but you do not need it when you qualify
for Boston.   The Boston M application will also include
an application for TAC.


ZZ
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: maveety@bcarh1e6.bnr.ca (Steve Maveety)
Subject: Orthotic Correction of Running Problems
Reply-To: maveety@bcarh1e6.bnr.ca (Steve Maveety)
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:51:30 GMT

Keywords: 


I am relatively new to running and would like some information
on orthotics. So far my only problem seems to be OTB pain which
I've been told is likely due to trying to advance too quickly without
proper buildup, training, stretching, etc.

I attended a talk by Jeff Galloway about a week ago while he was here
in Ottawa and found it very inspiring for a novice runner. I bought 
his book and have started to work my way through it in a more controlled
fashion.  Hopefully, my problem will go away with proper training.

A friend of mine has been painfully running for about a year now and
has an appointment at the end of this month to see about orthotics.
(Pain is just above the knee-cap)

I've heard a lot of runners give rave reviews of orthotics but would
be interested in knowing what kinds of running problems can be
corrected with orthotics.

Some questions:

What kinds of problems can be corrected?  Are there problems that
just can't be corrected, forcing runners to give up running?

What is the success rate for different kinds of corrections?

Can experienced runners diagnose and correct their own problems?
(e.g. adjusting insoles, aches, stride, pace, etc.)

Orthotics can be expensive, how much of a black art is diagnosis?
(Can a good specialist usually provide the necessary correction
 the first time or is it trial and error for most people?)

I would appreciate any information on what kinds of successes/failures
more experienced runners have had with Orthotics.
------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve Maveety    Bell-Northern Research Ltd.   Dept. 4Y11      |
| maveety@bnr.ca   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada       ESN:  393-3012  | 
|                                                (613) 763-3012  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Cooper Test
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:01:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Does Cooper say that (running more than three miles at a time) is for reasons
other than *training* or for reasons other than *health*?

I doubt that anyone would argue that a fast marathoner isn't better trained and
in "better shape" than a slow marathoner. But from a standpoint of health
and health risks, the medical community seems to assert that the two are
equal.

scott
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Achey knee
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:45:43 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Oregon State University

In article <1992Oct14.171946.20797@siesoft.co.uk> rob@siesoft.co.uk writes:
>reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) writes:
>: 
>:   I always ice up afater a run.  I got into the habit when I was having 
>:   problems with soreness.
>: 
>:   Ice up every time when you're done running.
>: 
>:   reidyj@storm.cs.orst.edu
>
>
>I was recently diagnosed as having peri osteo arthritis in one knee (I'm
>31 years old, BTW) - symptoms: joint clicks, uncomfortable climbing stairs
>etc and "achey" after exercise. The treatment recommended to me was to
>build up the vastis medialis muscle using straight leg lifts etc. The idea
>is to float the kneecap off the joint to reduce friction. 
>
>Does anyone else have experience of this problem? (basically its deformation
>of the underside of the knee-cap - this should normally be smooth and slide
>easily over the femural joint). I've found the leg lifts helpful, but I still
>need to avoid many kinds of exercise (e.g. cycling in too high a gear) and I
>haven't started running seriously again yet.

  Sounds like a condition called chondromalacia patella.  Again, rest is the 
  only cure.  Building up supporting muscles w/o insulting the injured area
  is always good.

>My advice would be to consult a physio if you get persistent knee pain (for
>instance if you get the problem after every run for 2 weeks and then again
>after a few days rest)

  I agree. It's really hard trying to diagnose someone with 'knee aches' over
  the net!>
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Tibial Band Syndrome
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:15:38 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

These comments based on my experience with ILIOtibial band syndrome, which
I ass u me is the same subject.

I am under the impression that ITB problems result primarily from alignment
and tightness. There are some good stretches for the ITB; these had no
substantial effect on my pain. Changing shoes essentially eliminated the
pain for me. I went from being unable to run past 2.5 miles to being able 
to run (or at last stagger) a marathon free of pain.

When I encountered the problem, I was running on 14 month old shoes. Even now
I sometimes get a twinge, which I interpret as a sign that it's time to get
new shoes (of the same model). 

cheers,
scott
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Galloway's shedules - structure of "form" workouts
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:09:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <19702.2ad558cd@ul.ie>, mullanej@ul.ie writes:
> ... However, I am not clear on the structure he 
> intends for "form" workouts. For instance in his 38 minute 10k schedule
> these sessions occur on Tuesdays and Thursdays and the numbers 8-10 are
> indicated. I assume that these refer to the number of repeats of the 
> form accelerations and not to total miles run, but if so what should the
> total mileage be on those days? Does it matter? In the text of the book
> Galloway merely says that these accelerations can be incorporated into
> your normal run.


	I have the Galloway book here in front of me. I interpert those numbers
(8-10) to be miles runs, not the number of 'form pick-ups'. On page 56, he says
describes form work as 4-to-8 pickups of 100-200 yards incorporated into the
daily run twice a week.

	You'll notice in his schedules, when the numbers mean something other than
miles he puts the units into parenthesis. For example, in the Hill Training
section on Tuesdays the workout is "8-10(Hills)". Also note, he still has those
days listed as "form" days.

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
From: sjb9567@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Looking For Races
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:04:32 GMT
Reply-To: sjb9567@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

I'm always out of town during holidays when I have time to race.
Does anyone know of any races in or around
  (a) Syracuse NY during Thanksgiving weekend (Nov. 26 - Nov 29)
  (b) Princeton NJ around Christmas?
The address of local clubs which might have listings would be
appreciated too.  Is there some electronic bboard which has race
listings?

Thanks in advance,
Simon

Preferred return address is Barnett.wbst129@Xerox.com
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: max@tantalus.uchicago.edu (Max Ziff)
Subject: How to push one's pace? (Q from an inexperienced runner)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:29:17 GMT

I am a fairly inexperienced runner: I'm in my 30's, I've been running
for about three years, about every other day (I've found I hurt myself
if I run more frequently).  I'm in pretty good shape: I also do other
aerobic exercise almost every other day, biking or swimming; but I am
not now, nor have I ever been a _real_ athlete.

I like running and would enjoy working on developing more speed and
endurance, but I don't know how to go about it.  Can anyone recommend
a book that would be good for someone at my level?  Or could anyone
give me some general advice or training principles?  I read a recent
posting of the FAQ, but it didn't seem to address this at my level.

Thanks,
--
Donald Ziff (Max)                                    ziff@cs.uchicago.edu

"Sin's most sinister symbol.  
     Git gone -- The very sight of you gives me irkage."  -- Offissa Pupp
From: rdsand@bb1t.monsanto.com (reality does what it wants...)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Weights and Running?
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:45:08 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Oct6.003618.28391@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, gthome@dss1.austin.ibm.com (Gerry Thome         (8-2256)) writes:
.
. stuff deleted ....
.
> Station 2.  75 crunches
> Station 3.  8 lunges with each leg

Is it possible to describe these exercises?  Crunches, I would expect, the 
similar to bent leg situps except that you put one leg straight up in 
the air? (And, of course, don't come all the way up...)

We did something called lunges in high-school, but as I recall, it was 
being in somewhat of a crouched position, shooting both legs back, and 
then back up into the squat position...Is this what you mean only with 
1 leg?

How often in a week would you do these exercises?  

Do you go through the cycle once?  

How much running do you do before and after?

Thanks!


------------
Rodney Sanders
rdsand@monsanto.com
From: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush)
Subject: How are your shin splints now?
Newsgroups: rec.running
Reply-To: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:49:52 GMT



About a month ago we had several people request advice on shin splints.  

Well?  
Is anybody feeling better?  
What seemed to help?



----------------------------------------------------------
Robin 

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: I hate orthotics!
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:23:32 GMT

just got my orthotics this week, and ooooo baby!

i'm sure that these orthotics are the answer to my prayers...(small 8-)

doc told me there might be a little adaptation period but it never 
happened. every run feels better than the one before.


however, your mileage may vary....


....and you can bet that, inside of a year, the Surgeon General will
find a link between orthotics and cancer!

just one more mile,
jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov     
Madison,AL (205)461-4922  
i need to ask myself.....
***********         Would I rather be right, or happy?         ***********
From: nevai@ops.mps.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Columbus Marathon
Date: 12 Oct 1992 14:18:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ops.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <1992Oct12.132954.5202@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ahenden@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Arne A Henden) writes:
>The Columbus Marathon was held under nearly ideal conditions
>Sunday Oct. 11....
>
>No Master's rankings were listed.  Total prize money = $90,000 with
>first place worth $17K for both men and women.


AND: $500 in the wheelchair competition (ea. for both men and women).  Isn't
this outrageous (even if only appr. 20 wheelchairers participated)?  It's a
shame (in my opinion). Take care...Paul

Paul Nevai                            pali+@osu.edu (Internet)
Department of Mathematics             nevai@mps.ohio-state.edu (Internet)
The Ohio State University             nevai@ohstpy (BITNET)
P.O. Box 3341                         1-614-292-3317 (Office)
Columbus, Ohio 43210-0341             1-614-292-5310 (Answering Machine)
The United States of America          1-614-459-5615 (FAX)
From: rdsand@bb1t.monsanto.com (reality does what it wants...)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Tibial Band Syndrome
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:30:30 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

Hello,

I know this has been discussed before...it's probably in the frequently 
asked questions list...if so, could someone send it to me?

My brother suffered from tibial band syndrome last winter.  Now, he appears 
to be getting it on the other knee...What are some things that a person 
can do to strengthen this area so that this problem doesn't keep coming 
up?

Thanks!

-- 
Rodney Sanders
rdsand@ccmail.monsanto.com
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Help, Am I injured???
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:28:15 GMT
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University

Follow runners,

I'm in deep trouble.  I'm supposed to be running the NYC Marathon on 
Nov. 1, two weeks from now.  But I might have been injured.

I've converted 1/2 of my running into swimming because of a month old
shin splint.  Then in the past two runs, the muscle on the outside of
my lower legs get very stiff and painful.  The second time, I found a
temperary solution: running on my toes for 1/5 of a mile or so.  The
pain and stiffness would go away for a while, then I need to run toes 
again.

My question is:  Am I injured?  Would I have problem with the Marathon?

Background:  running consistently for 1.5 to 2 years.
	30 mpw last term, 60 mpw in Summer
	25-30 miles and ~4 miles of freestyle swim per week; run 2 or 3 
		times a week, one speed run 10m and one long run 15-20m.
	Hardly get much sleep lately.

Races:  
9/20/92		1/2 Marathon --	1:24:30
10/4/92		25k (15.5M)  --	1:42:20
11/1/92		NYC Marathon -- 3:00:00		Can I do it ???

Thanks a lot for any advise,
Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)        hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
From: wolf@prosun.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: damages with running milage (was Re: No Marathon Legs?)
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:57:22 GMT
Organization: GMD-FIRST, D-1000 Berlin 10

In article <1992Oct6.195443.28758@mlb.semi.harris.com>, mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
|>  ........
|> ALL running damages the tendons, and the damage is directly
|> proportional to distance.  The rate of healing varies, and might be
|> as high as 150 miles/week in a few genetically gifted elite athletes,
|> but is probably closer to 20-50 mi/week in most people.  As long as the
|> rate of damage is less than the rate of healing, then no harm occurs.
|> 
|> The tendon's capacity to absorb damage before an injury occurs is
|> a couple hundred miles, or about 2 month's worth of running, according
|> to the model.  Tendons usually heal with about 2 months of rest.
|> ....
|> 

I dont't agree with your damage theory. It's not that simple.

At least, you have to consider the effects of long term adaptation of all
body systems, that means healing rates will increase and damaging rates
will decrease the longer you stand by.
Of course, this takes a long time, one year is surely not enough.

There are also  methods to support actively the recovering processes.

I also don't agree that only gifted elite runners have high enough
healing rates to recover from a weekly milage of 100 mi.

I feel, everybody, who has two healthy legs, has the ability to run such
distances without injuries but most make simple mistakes.
Man is a species built for running.

If you look at the migrant birds there also are not only some birds
able to fly 2000 mi;  all of them do.

So, in many cases it's the head, not the tendon, that causes the harm.


wolf






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: How are your shin splints now?
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:37:12 GMT
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <2ADAF020.29560@news.service.uci.edu> robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu writ:
>
>About a month ago we had several people request advice on shin splints.  
>
>Is anybody feeling better?  
>What seemed to help?

I c no change in mine.  I've stoped using the elevator, streching my calf,
and converting more running to swimming.  But then I'm only on the 4th fl.

"The SportsMedicine Book" by Mirkin and Hoffman is a great book.
It explains the shin splint as usually caused by muscle imbalance in leg:
strong calf with week shin.  Solution?  They suggested strenthening shin
(with stairs walking & such) and streching calf.

Happy running,
Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)        hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
From: tad10@ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Dickinson)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Just Relax
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:04:32 GMT
Reply-To: tad10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Dickinson)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


kennedy@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Mike Kennedy) writes:
>     I have a question concerning 'staying loose' while running. A year or
>   so ago I attended a running clinic where they talked about keeping the
>   upper body loose, ( do not make a fist, let your arms hang loosely by 
>   your side, etc). When I do this or at least try to do this, I find I
>   get side stitches and/or chest stitches and my shoulders are sore after
>   I finish my run. (2.5-3.5 miles x 3 days)
>
>     Any tips on upper body form would be appreciated.

A method that worked for me was to play with a tennis ball while I ran.  
Bounce it, toss it up in the air, toss it between hands, play catch
with a partner, etc.

I was so tense and tight that I couldn't loosen up until I played with the 
tennis ball.  I finally got the idea and now don't need the ball, but  I
needed something to get acclimated.



... the worst run I've ever had was terrific!

............................................................................
Terry Dickinson            tad10@juts.ccc.amdahl.com            713.850.8828
Amdahl Corporation                                            Houston, Texas                   
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Painful Heels
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:22:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.020833.28417@informix.com>, gingerk@informix.com (Ginger 
Kelly) writes:

>The problem I have is that my feet, primarily the heels, have been getting
>sorer and sorer over the past 3 months.  It started as an annoyance that 
>disappeared after 5 minutes or so, but it has gotten to be very painful.
>In fact, periodically throughout the day I will get sharp, excrutiating
>pains that last for 5 seconds or so, for no apparent reason. I tried laying
>off for 3-4 days at a time, but I didn't notice any improvement from the
>layoff, so I resumed training.  

Sounds like heel spurs to me.  Go see an orthopedist for x-rays and get him to
prescribe muscle relaxants and anti-inflammation medicine; do not do surgery
until after you exhaust all other options.  I have them and I ended up taking
many months to get over the pain.  Now I have little or no pain, partly because 
I lost a little weight (5 lbs.) and partly because I changed my stride to avoid
landing so hard on my heels.

Katie
Newsgroups: rec.running