HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian SPENCER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:28:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1ikhoaINNdkk@meaddata.meaddata.com> brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran) writes:
>Today's paper reports that the Orioles have become the fifth major-league
>team to ban smoking at their open-air stadiums.  Two questions:
>
>1) What are the other four?
>2) How effective has enforcement of this ban been?
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
The Olympic Stadium in Montreal also bans smoking. They banned it the second game
after the roof was installed (circa 1987). In the first game, there was
so much smoke in there that people could hardly breathe. As for
enforcement, there's always some idiot who breaks the rules. But, in
general, most people respect it. If an usher sees someone smoking, they
ask them to stop (usually).

Brian Spencer (bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Garvey!
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 23:15:12 GMT
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Kingston
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes:
: > As for Neikro, I think that his exclusion had to do with the lack of
: >respect for the knuckleball. Most people see it as some form of a parlor
: >trick not a pure pitch. There is no denying that he will get in
: >eventually, but it would give it a few more years.
: 
: I don't think it had anything to do with the knuckler. Niekro was
: a very good pitcher for a very long time, but he was never one
: of the best two or three pitchers in the league. He wasn't Tom
: Seaver or Steve Carlton or Jim Palmer or JR Richard or Roger Clemens.
: He didn't win any Cy Youngs, he wasn't a perennial all-star. Players
: like Niekro make it into the hall, but even though first ballot
: hall of famer's are nowhere near as rare as they used to be, they
: still are players who at some point in their career could make
: a legitimate claim to being the best player in baseball at their
: position and one of the best players in baseball period. Niekro
: didn't have that kind of peak value.

I keep having this feeling that no one remembers Phil before he had white
hair:
1967, Atlanta: 11-9, 1.87 ERA (led league), 10 complete games/20 starts
1968, Atlanta: 14-12, 2.59 ERA, 15 CG/29 starts
1969, Atlanta: 23-13, 2.57 ERA, 21 CG/35 starts
1978, Atlanta: 19-18, 2.88 ERA, 22 CG/42 starts
From 1967 through 1980, never had fewer than 34 starts. From 1968 through
1986, once had fewer than 30 starts (1981, 22).
Led league in:
Wins            2 1974,1979
Complete Games  4 1974,1977-79
Innings Pitched 4 1974,1977-79
Strikeouts      1 1977
ERA             1 1967

From 1969-1979, Phil's record was 187-164 (.533) for Atlanta teams that were
a collective 818-952 (.462), including one edition that lost 101 games (1977
- Niekro went 16-20 that year). Imagine what those numbers would have looked
like in Cincinatti with some offensive support or Los Angeles with a
pitcher's park. 

No, I think that even in his prime Niekro didn't get the credit he deserved,
for three reasons:
1. He didn't play in a media center (if TBS had been around....)
2. The "trick pitch" bias. Note that Niekro wasn't terribly wild. His career
K/BB numbers are 3342/1809, for a 1.85 K/BB ratio. Career, he averaged just
over 3BB/9IP. Ryan, through 1991, was at 4.7 BB/9IP.
3. He played most of his career for *really* *BAD* teams in a severe
hitter's park.

: Don't worry. His time will come. I expect to see him make it
: next year.

I hope so. 

   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

Ice cream is an absolute good.
	- Wallace Stevens
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Secret's In The Pesto Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: HOF
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:11:46 GMT
Organization: Reviled By Buffoons , Ltd.

Clay "The things the old man told me truly blew my mind" D. writes:
>>        Dick Allen, Vida Blue, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, x-Rick Burleson,
>>x-Bill Campbell, Orlando Cepeda, x-Ron Cey, x-Cecil Cooper, x-Doug
>>DeCinces, Curt Flood, George Foster, x-Steve Garvey, x-Reggie Jackson,
>>Jim Kaat, Mickey Lolich, x-Dave Lopes, x-Hal McRae, x-Bill Madlock,
>>x-Gary Matthews, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, x-Phil Niekro, Tony
>>Oliva, Tony Perez, Vada Pinson, x-Darrell Porter, Ron Santo, Rusty
>>Staub, x-Andre Thornton, Luis Tiant, Joe Torre.

Bonds, Jackson, Niekro, Santo get my votes.  Perhaps Allen.

Once again, Shooty Babitt and Jerry Dybzinski are SNUBBED in the nomination
process. 

"Damn the Law!" - Akbar & Jeff
"Hitler?  A little too far to the left for me." - Paul S Galvanek
"Nonsense.  Die, SDCN scum!" - Roger Maynard
"Your mama!" - Dave "MIA" Kirsch
"Mr. Peanut has signed a four year deal to host 'Late Night.'  We feel that
 this will improve the quality of the show after Letterman's departure."
 - Lance Smith, new head of NBC's entertainment division.
"Nick Buonoconti is the world's biggest hypocrite and slimebag.  How can
 someone be proclaimed as a humanitarian for opening a medical research
 center after being the spokesman for the Tobacco Institute, and publicly
 proclaiming that cigarettes don't have adverse health effects?  Anyone
 who tries to get young non-smokers to smoke is a slime bag, in my opinion."
 - Gary Huckabay
"We feel Storm Davis is the sort of pitcher who can fill a gap for us."
 - Sandy Alderson
"We wanted to spend our money on a real veteran, like Andre Dawson.  That's
 why we didn't shell out the money for Mark McGwire." - Lou "Shroom" Gorman
"This is called 'Lost in Germany.'" - Doug Pinnick.
"Although I don't have photographic proof, I am DAMN sure that the person
 playing in Curt Schilling's uniform in 1992 was Marlo Thomas." - Dave Till.



-- 
   Gary Huckabay    . "Promise me that when you're supreme ruler of the      .
 "Waiting for the   .  universe, you'll see that the adman who came up with  .
  Lance Smith Mr.   .  the 'Swedish Bikini Team' will grate cheese in Hell." .
 Peanut Miniseries.". "He'll assist Richard Simmons, Kath.  Go to sleep."    .
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vbdiep@iastate.edu (Vinh Diep)
Subject: Re: The Best First-base Player in !993
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:18:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.025029.15208@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <C0M6pC.IIp@news.iastate.edu> vbdiep@iastate.edu (Vinh Diep) writes:
>>	While many of you are arguing about Will Clark and Frank Thomas, and 
>>one is better than the other, one player that some of you seem to ignore will
>>surprise baseball fans in 1993. That All-Star first-baseman is DON MATTINGLY.
>> 	Any questions?
>
>Yes.  What's in the pipe?
>
>Roger

	Nothing... I'm just trying to cause some controversies among baseball
fans. That's all.
From: dmccarro@sedona.intel.com (David McCarroll)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Spring Training (Cactus League)
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:53:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: chnews.1i9thuINN7md
Distribution: world
Organization: Intel Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: volga.intel.com
Originator: dmccarro@sedona


There is some limited information on ticket availability for
Cactus League games at 602-898-5665.
It's a voice/fax information line, so you need a touch-tone phone. 
No Fax data is available for the spring training info.
To access the Cactus league schedule enter 1086.
To access ticket information enter 1085. Once there: 
enter 1160 for Giants ticket info
      1161 for A's
      1162 for Cubs
      1163 for Brewers
      1164 for Angels
      1165 for Rockies
      1166 for Padres
      1167 for Mariners 

Here's some data on ticket prices for the spring training games.
A's
   $9.00 Box
   $8.00 Upper/lower Reserved
   $7.00 Grandstand reserve

Cubs
   $8.00 Grandstand
   $6.50 Outfield 
   $4.50 Bleachers

Brewers
   $7.50 Grandstand box
   $6.50 Box
   $5.50 Reserved grandstand
   $4.00 General admission
   
Angels
   no information

Giants
   3000 season tickets all gone so all that's left:
   $7.00 Bleachers
   $5.00 Grass

Rockies
   $7.00 Box
   $6.50 Reserved grandstand
   $4.00 Bleachers

Padres
   $6.00 Reserved
   $4.00 General admission
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Subject: Re: American League West (Was Re: The Minnesota Twins)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:19:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.160407.19251@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <93008.004857MV013374@NDSUVM1.BITNET> steve eliason <MV013374@NDSUVM1.BITNET> writes:
>>       I just want to say I am a big Twins fan and wish them the best of
>>luck this year. I predict that they will be untouchable if and only if
>>they get their hands on a decent pitcher.
>
>What does their lineup look like?  The keys (Puckett, Hrbek, Harper,
>Mack) are all another year older, and the loss of Gagne will hurt.
>(Winfield more than makes up for Davis, though, IMHO.)  The left side
>of the infield looks weak, and the pitching staff is a bit shaky.
>(Tapani and Erickson are solid, but Mahomes is still young and
>inconsistent, and the other spots are unknowns.)
>
>The Twins could win.  I don't think anybody really dominates that
>division.  But I think they need more than one more pitcher to really
>run away with it.  (Besides, where are they going to find one?)
>

I agree wholeheartedly that nobody really dominates this division.  Other
than KC and California, nobody has more than two good starters in the rotation,
and some don't even have that!

Help me out here, as there are huge question marks in most rotations. (Note
questions marks are do to both lack of pitching and Steve's failing memory.)

MN: Tapani, Erickson, Mahomes, Trombley, Deshaies
CWS: McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez, Steib, ?
TX: Brown, Ryan, ?, ?, ?
Oak: Darling, Welch, Davis, ?, ?
Sea: Fleming, Johnson, Bosio, Hansen, ?
KC: Cone, Appier, Picardo, Gubiza, ?
CA: Langston, Finley, Valera, Hathaway?, Springer (or whoever they picked up 
    from the Yankees)

There has to be a number of pitchers that I don't remember off-hand.  In any
case, the good offensive teams are pretty lack-luster pitching wise, and the
good pitching clubs (KC in particular) need some punch in the line-up in a 
BIG way.  This division is pretty much up for grabs.

Steve Kelm

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jscott@micom.com (James Scott)
Subject: Re: Astros Contenders?
Organization: yo-yo dyne propulsion 
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:53:45 GMT

From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)

paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:

> Despite these losers, the Astros should still win 90 ball games this

niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) responds:

>> What? ... They also have the Plexiglass principle workings against
>> them; teams that change records dramatically tend to go the opposite
>> year in the next meaning the Astros are likely to slide back down.

hmmm.  most recently proved by atlanta going worst to first and then
the next year collapsing its way back into the world series.

james
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:36:49 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <C0Is3E.KAw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L.
 Barnes) writes:
>I still can't believe Reggie Jackson made it and Phil Niekro AND Steve Garvey
>(OK, he's marginal, but less so than Jackson IMHO) didn't.  I think that GArvey
>was better in all areas of the game including 'intangibles' than Jackson.
>Whsat did Reggie ever do well except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's
>and early 1980's TV shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy
>MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?  (I'm not a big fan of
>Reggie's!)  Garvey, on the other hand, was a dangerous clutch hitter ALL
>SEASON and reasonably good first baseman.  I plead ignorance on Reggie's
>fielding abilities because I'm a Cub fan, and only tend to watch National
>League games (NO DH!!)
>
>Anyway, I think Niekro deserved to be elected because he won 318 games AND
>could throw a knuckleball accurately, which is impressive in and of itself!
>
>Feel free to flame away, if there are indeed any Reggie fans in the universe.
>BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player
>than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.
>
>Just my $.02 worth.
>
>Laura
>
Weren't Niekro and Garvey on the ballot for the first time?  The writers don't
really like to vote too many in on the player's first year of eligibility;
they like to reserve that "honor" for the truly "special" players.  If this
sounds like bunk, it is.

I think the writers truly enjoy the power they have over a player for the HOF.
Just think, if player a pissed them off during his carrer, they don't vote
for him on the first, maybe not even the second or third times on the ballot.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Dave Thompson)
Subject: Re: Cards. Are there collectors outthere?
Keywords: cards
Organization: Communications Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 00:54:56 GMT

In article <1ifq2vINN1io@gap.caltech.edu> rander@cco.caltech.edu (Roger F. Anderson) writes:
>I don't believe there is a seperate group for this and I don't know
>if there is sufficient interest for one. I have from various years between 
>1965 - 93 about 20,000 or more Baseball cards which I would like to trade
>but in as much as they are not in perfect shape and given the market these
>days dealers are not willing to try them. I was wondering if anyone out there
>was looking to trade. I would like to finish out some of the years I have alot
>of, particularly 72, 77,80,84,85,86,90,91,92.
>
>Just checkin'

There is indeed a separate group called rec.collecting. I would suggest
you take a look in there and post this article there as well. I am sure
you will have success. In fact if you e-mail the specific card sets you
want to finish I may be able to help you myself. I have a lot of extra
cards sitting around collecting dust.

Dave Thompson
dave@clark.dgim.doc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Astros Contenders?
Organization: Boo! 
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:43:33 GMT

In <1993Jan10.094242.21337@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>In <1993Jan7.135620.16322@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>>In <C0Gurv.84H@cs.dal.ca>, niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes...
>>>In <Jan.6.22.37.20.1993.23150@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:

>>> You do make decent points and perhaps I was harsh. I did think about park 
>>>factors but the OBP's posted by Anthony makes him clearly below average.
>>>Cedeno was awful as you agree.

>Though Cedeno was awful in 92, in 1991 he actually looked decent
>(243/270/418)  Park adjust, and note that he was 21 at the time he did
>that, and he doesn't look bad.

>The problem is his strikeout/walk numbers.  When someone has a ratio
>*that* bad, I find it hard to believe he'll continue to hit.  
>(1991: 74-9,  1992: 71-14)

Plus, of course, there's just no way Cedeno is a major league shortstop
defensively.  He makes Jeff Blauser look like Ozzie Smith.

I think even the Astros realize this now, but they don't have much of a
need for third basemen right now, so Cedeno may end up buried.

And, as you say, he's just going to have to learn some strike zone judgment
to be able to hit a major league level.

Greg 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jim McMaster)
Subject: Re: HOF
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:19:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.162501.27555@ncar.ucar.edu>
wildcat@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat) writes:
 
>
>        I heard the baseball Hall of Fame ballots are out.  The only eligible
>names are heard were Reggie Jackson, Steve Garvey and Bill Madlock.  Anyone
>know who is eligible and i wonder if Leo Duroucher(sp) will get in this time.
>
 
First-timers:                 Holdovers:
 
Reggie Jackson                Dick Allen
Steve Garvey                  Vida Blue
Phil Niekro                   Bobby Bonds
Bill Madlock                  Ken Boyer
Rick Burleson                 Orlando Cepeda
Bill Campbell                 Curt Flood
Ron Cey                       George Foster
Cecil Cooper                  Jim Kaat
Doug DeCinces                 Mickey Lolich
Davey Lopes                   Minnie Minoso
Hal MacRae                    Thurman Munson
Gary Matthews                 Tony Oliva
Darrell Porter                Tony Perez
Andre Thornton                Vada Pinson
                              Ron Santo
                              Rusty Staub
                              Luis Tiant
                              Joe Torre
 
Pete Rose is left off, and Leo Durocher is not on the ballot.  This is
from an AP story in the Denver Post, all typos are mine.
 
Jim McMaster
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: joel@math.toronto.edu (Joel Chan)
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:57:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.212949.28623@clark.dgim.doc.ca> dave@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Dave Thompson) writes:
>In article <1ikhoaINNdkk@meaddata.meaddata.com> brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran) writes:
>>Today's paper reports that the Orioles have become the fifth major-league
>>team to ban smoking at their open-air stadiums.  Two questions:
>>
>>1) What are the other four?
>>2) How effective has enforcement of this ban been?
>>-- 
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com 
>
>I know the SkyDome in Toronto has banned it also.( Its open-air when the dome
>is open) Don't know what the others are though.
>
The other four are:
Toronto, San Diego, Detroit, and Oakland.

As for Toronto, I have never seen anyone break the rules at the Dome.  But
the smell of cigarette smoke in the concourses is terrible.

Effective this year, smoking has been entirely banned inside the SkyDome
and Maple Leaf Gardens, which means the only smoke you might see at the
Dome is either the fireworks or the exhaust coming from the Gardiner
Expressway :-)
As for San Diego, Detroit, Oakland, and Camden Yards... smoking areas will
exist.  Smoking will only be allowed in designated areas of the restaurants
at the SkyDome.

Cheers...

Joel
-- 
Joel Chan, Department of Mathematics	  	 joel@math.toronto.edu
Toronto Blue Jays: 1992 World Series Champions
"History: Those who ignore it are condemned to repeat it.  Math, too."
				    -From the comic strip "Betty"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:39:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.164717.29452@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>third, after the '91 season, when i believe Cecil was bitching about not
>being named MVP, i believe i saw one of the big baseball book people (i forget
>who) make a case that Devon White deserved the MVP more than Fielder
>based on overall contribution. it was quite interesting.
>(does anyone remember seeing this and exactly who it was and what they
>said?)
>
This would probably be from Bill James' _The Baseball Book 1992_.  In his
player ratings for AL CFs, Devon White is ranked third; James presents his
argument here on why White would have been a more deserving choice of MVP
than Fielder (although not necessarily the best choice overall).  Basically,
James points out that while Fielder had 27 more homers in 1991 than White,
White had 15 more doubles, 10 more triples, 33 more stolen bases, and 21
points in batting average over Fielder (James neglects to mention that
Fielder drew 23 more walks than White, giving him an OBP 5 points greater than
Devon's).  The final quote from James is : "I'm not interested in what the
math exactly totals up to or how you compute it, but it seems pretty
obvious that if you trade off all of White's hitting advantages against
the 27 homers, White had about as good a year on offense as Fielder did.
Then if you look at defense -- the best center fielder in the game against
a fat, slow first baseman -- it's a mismatch.  There's no way in hell Fielder
could be as valuable as White, is there?  Then if you add in the fact that
White's play led Toronto to a division title... well, why would you vote
for Fielder?"
-- 
Robert Ho
Univ. of Toronto
hora@ecf.toronto.edu
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Stop the Keystone Cops! (was - Ted's Simmon's latest acquisition)
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:36:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan5.235316.16722@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>There's still a very big difference between the current era and that era
>past: the minor league system.  In particular, early indications are that
>Simmons had a stellar draft last June.  We'll likely see the first results
>from that draft next year, in the person of Brett Backlund.  

That may be true Sherri, and I hope it is, but that still doesn't explain'
the steady stream of talent that has left this team, with nothing to show
for it, that has occurred since Simmons took over.

Some cases are understandable, Bonds was simply to costly and perhaps 
the Pirates felt they had enough young pitchers ready to step up to take
Drabek's place, Okay!  Now explain to me the reasoning behind trading 
a player like Steve Buechele, who cost that Pirates a small fortune in
minor league talent, for the likes of Danny Jackson.  Forget whether
you think Steve was a great third baseman or not, certainly he was worth
more in a trade than Danny Jackson even up and then to lose Jackson in
the draft 8^(  That's alot of bodies moving out of Pittsburgh with little 
more than a half a season of playing time from S.B. to show for it.

Alex Cole's situation is much the same, you trade for an outfielder you 
know your going to be in need of in '93, finally get a legit lead off man,
then leave him unprotected in the draft and waste a protection slot on
players like Stan Belinda and Jeff King.  I can't see anything here that
makes sense.  Did He really believe either expansion team would be stupid
enough to draft either of those guys and even if they had, so what?.

With a little bit of common sense Simmons could still have much of the
minor league talent he does (maybe more if you count those players that
were given away in just those two deals) AND he could still have had a 
substantially better team going into the '93 season.  Maybe they couldn't
win a fourth division tile but they'd be alot closer to contending than
they are now.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball