From: psyco4@jane.uh.edu
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Re: Space Madness pins down Furries
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: jane.13OCT199221022293
Followup-To: misc.test
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct13.191051.22814@wixer.cactus.org>, rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes...
>psyco4@rosie.uh.edu writes:
>>>Randomness snickers at Tater.
>>>Tourmaline says "personally i don't like Furryism, because it seems degrading
>> to women, and i dislike some furries, because they act saccharine-sweetly
>> cute and if you don't act cute TOO they tend to get very fascist"
> 
>>Valid point, but show me a much where female characters _aren'_ degraded?
> 
>Well, you could try space madness.  If you degrade a female character there,
>you get brutally slaughtered, your client is reconnected to ChargenMUD, your
>root password is hacked and your credit rating mysteriously falls through the
>floor.

Yes, as I've been told.  I also stated the mu*'s where an emphasis is placed
on roleplaying.

> 
>>>Tater nods to Tourmaline.  "That bit about fascism is dead on target."
>>
>>Granted.  There is someone there who admits to being fascist, but most
>>furries aren't.  We only ask that you take the time to make a decent
>>description, set your gender, species, and lock yourself, which is no more
>>than most mu* will ask. I offer AfterFive as a point.  Around 40% of the 
>>people I see on there have no description.  How do you interact with someone
>>if you don't know anything about them?
> 
>You...interact with them in the attempt to learn something about them.  What
>does having six melon-sized breasts tell you about the guy who plays Hervystia?
>I mean, besides the bit about falling on head as child, etc.

So explain to me why a person's name is a reason to get to know them? Would
you walk up to a stranger on the street and try to get to know them? I 
seriously doubt it.  The description helps you know a bit more about the
person than their name.

> 
>>>dirque says "Personally i don't like furry cause the players are even worse
>> losers than the average mud geek"
>>
>>So if someone is married, they're a loser? Or if someone is bisexual/homo-
>>sexual, they're a loser? Of if they like to talk to people, they're a 
>>loser? I think not.  Seems to me you're being a tad bit petty here,
>>slamming someone because of their belief~rs and ideals...
> 
>No, the loserness comes from being a bunch of horny, aging men who have
>nothing better to do than draw bad pictures of foxes getting fucked by
>machines and then handing them around and cooing appreciatively.  Don't
>get dirque wrong on this point.

I _really_ hope you aren't speaking of me there.  As I said, I'm 20. I don't
draw FurryArt or view it.  I don't even subscribe to any of the various
'Zines. So don't get me wrong either.

> 
>>>Tater says "and they have these page-long descriptions that have lots of
>> references to "sleek thighs" and "firm, rosy-nippled breasts" and stuff. 
>> hence of course you know that 99 of furries are guys"
> 
>>What about the male characters?  I don't describe myself on their in any more
>>than like 6 lines for any of my forms.  And on my female character (And yes,
>>I have one, and yes, I'm male real life, and yes, I'm straight.  Deal with it)
> 
>Well, Mr. Sharon D. Clark, the fact that male characters exist[ed] on furry
>doesn't stop the female caricatures from being laughably ridiculous and
>insulting to anyone with a mind.


Ok...let's get this part straight right now.  I'm am using a female friend's
access to vnews.  I had inadvertantly left her name in on the header.  If 
you had paid attention to the bottom of the post, I inserted my name at 
the bottom. So you're saying that all female characters on FurryMuck are
"laughably ridiculous and insulting to anyone with a mind." Hmmm...Claire,
you seeing this one?  As I've stated before, and which you can't seem
to believe, on Furry, as on _other_ mu*'s. _There are women who play female
characters_.  Point made.


>>>Tater says "most RL females play MALE furries so as not to get constantly hit
>> on by RL guys playing VR males and RL guys playing VR lesbians."
>>
>>Umm...mind giving me an example? As in a character name, and the players name,
>>phone number, and address? Don't believe everything you are told.  It's not 
>>good.  And another point.  Virtual reality does not equal real life, no 
>>matter how much we might wish it at times.
> 
>There isn't any way in hell I'm giving you my phone number and address,
>Mr. Sharon D. Clark, but I happen to live with one of the more famous furry
>players (she's recovering nicely, thank you); she often plays male characters
>for just that reason.

Again, you ignore the name at the end.  Oh well, should I really expect more
from someone who thinks that someone who was told that she had to have 
six breasts, being an anthromorphic squirrl, automatically has them?

> 
>>>Tater hates furries
>>
>>Yes, so I've noted.  You're also a little twerp who can't handle someone
>>being different.
> 
>There's 'different' and there's 'lobotomized'.

Yes...we know...you're giving us an _apt_ example of 'lobotomized'.

> 
>>>Randomness has nothing against furries, but does mind being harassed for
>> being insufficiently cute.
>>
>>If someone harasses you, walk away.  There is a neat thing on FurryMuck
>>called page #ignore.  You can't hear that person's pages.  You can also
>>set yourself Haven, and no one can find you or page to you.
> 
>There's a much better, faster, simpler solution: QUIT.

Isn't QUIT walking away from the mu* as a whole?

> 
>>>Tourmaline says "the furry party i went to was SO PATHETIC, i mean, it was
>> more pathetic than Pete from windsor, it was more pathetic than the time my
>> nonexistent license was suspended for a nonvalid reason, it was TRULY 
>> pathetic.  100 FUCKING percent ol
>>
>>Then why did you go?  That shows more than a bit of stupidity on your
>>part, mein herr...
> 
>Tourmaline is, at her most phonymic, a heiress.  Maybe you meant frau?

Yes, I'll admit that I didn't know that Tourmaline is female.  By the way,
she sent me email, responding a bit more realistically to my comments.
Maybe you should speak with her to learn how?

> 
>The same logic for 'why did you go' can be applied to furry itself.  Some
>of us wanted to test its waters, to see if it's as bad as rumored.  Fact
>is, it was.

Ok...let's put this in an analogy. According to you, FurryMuck and Furries
are one of the worst things in the world. Ok. If someone tells you that
taking crack is one of the worst things you can do to yourself, are you
going to take it, just to see if 'it's as bad as rumored.'?  I think not.
Only reason I can see for you to go there, from what you've said oh so
eloquently, is to find a reason to slam it.  BTW, I was told today,
by someone on TimeTraveller, that most of the people were just as bad as
they claimed Furries were.  I responded with the following.  I am not
defending all of FurryMuck. Or TimeTravller.  I simply stated that
you can't use sweeping generalizations to describe _any_ group. Be it
muck, racial group, gender, anything. You cannot use generalizations
to describe a group.

> 
>>>seattle says "So furries are prepubescent mudders with elevevated 
>> testosterone levels?"
>>>Devon says "A lot of them are old frustrated men, too."
>>>Tater says "actually, seattle, most of them are 24-25-26, no girlfriend, live
>> with a few other male furries."
>>>dirque says "furries are middle-age mudders with elevated testosterone levels"
>>
>>The people on FurryMuck average around 20-22, because _most_ people on 
>>the Internet discover it in college and are of that age.  I happen to be 20,
>>engaged, and living alone.  Therefore, I don't fit your template.  Don't 
>>speak where you don't have the knowledge.  I don't remember a survey being
>>taken.
> 
>Funny, I don't remember being surveyed for your statement on _most_ users
>on the Internet.  I find your naivete refreshing, however.  I'm sure everyone
>at the various large commercial organizations and military and bureaucratic
>installations who started the network itself are somewhat surprised to hear
>that they learned about it when they were in college at the age of 22; I'm
>also astounded that you have the idea that the Internet is a plaything for
>college freshmen and sophomores.

Fine, I'll admit to my mistakes.  I should _not_ have used the phrase, "most
of Internet." To be truthful, what I should have said was 'Most of the people
who use the Internet for mudding." My apologies to the _serious_ users
of Internet.  You want me to take a poll of the people who use lpmuds,
dikus, tinymuds, mucks, muses, mushes, and abermud?  Fine.  I'll work on 
a survey and post it to all of the r.g.m.* newsgroups later this week.

> 
>>>Tourmaline says "some people have the bad luck to be involved with furrymuck,
>> but can be rescued and untaught their furry ways."
>>
>>Come on...you make it sound like a disease or something.  Grow up.
> 
>I'd like to hereby award Jim Miller the Secret DreamScape Newbie prize for
>posting an article which draws flame-newbies like a magnet.  Well done,
>Jim!

Flame newbie? I think not.  I've mudded since Feburary of 1991, granted,
not a long time as compared to some, but hardly a newbie.  As to flames,
I've been flaming people who comes out with something like this since, oh..
sometime around May 1991...again, not a newbie.

> 
>>>dirque says "HHAHAHAHAHA I LOVE baiting hervestia about saying it has 6
>> breasts"
>>
>>And now the truth comes out.  You like to be a twit.  As I and someone 
>>else said earlier, Furries are people who play "anthromorphic animals"
>>which are animals with human characteristics...Such as some Anime Movies,
>>Disney's _Robin Hood_, and many other places.  Human characteristics
>>_do_ include human breasts on females.  Like it or not.  Not that you'd 
>>know.  And just to clear it up, Hervyestia is female.
> 
>Mr. Sharon, what human woman do you know with SIX BREASTS?

Where did the idea come out that Hervyestia has 6 breasts? I never recall
that being stated as a fact.  Only dirque saying that since Hervy is
a squirrel that she _had_ to have six breasts.  As to human women...I don't 
know any...you?

> 
>>Jason Ballew
>>Bregalad/FurryMuck
>>Brianna/FurryMuck
>>Zarkon/TimeTraveller
>>Briana/TimeTraveller
>>Jason/AfterFive
>>Brianna/AfterFive
>>Z'kon/PernMush
>>Bregalad/TinyTim (if it comes up)
>>Auzmen/PernMush
>>Jayson/Soucon
>>Erych/DragonsFire
> 
>My god, it's the List of Places To Avoid.

Be my guest, avoid them all. Less !clue people to listen to whine.

> 
>>Go ahead, flame me, see if I care...
>>'Sides, I know how to 'kill' posts ;)
>>And also, if it's an intelligent flame, I'll respond.  Otherwise, it's killed.
> 
>As your flamer for tonight, let me thank you most appreciatively for your
>statement of intent as well as qualification for judgement.  It matters
>so much to me that you receive my article in the spirit in which it is
>intended.

Yes, you are correct, this is a flame.  What I had recieved from Tourmaline,
and what I posted originally, was not.  It was a rational discussion of
what has been said before.

> 
>Rhodesia/RandomGang
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, I"m...
Jason Ballew
Everyone you wanna avoid@Everywhere you wanna avoid
*snicker*