HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srinivas@vision.crd.ge.com (Chukka Srinivas)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:34:09 GMT
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <BxuJAr.85A@ucunix.san.uc.edu> bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar) writes:
>
>Shriman Shakil Ji,
>
>First, there is no contradiction that needs to be explained. Yours
>and Ahmadis are two different interpretations of the same syntactic
>entity (Quran). If they differ, you can't say one is wrong and the other
>is correct. Yes, even the interpretation accepted by a majority can not
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>be forced down the throats of those in a minority. That is called
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>religious tolerance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

I agree.
I only wish that your friends in VHP/BJP also
note down and try to understand this definition
of 'religious tolerance'.
....
>
>Are you, Mr. Shakil Ahmad, vested with the authority of deciding who 
>is a Muslim and who is not?
>                                                  [Yes/No]
>
>
>If Yes, then you are violating a well accepted belief of islam and if
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>not, then please stop talking about Ahmadis not being Muslims.


>
>You have no right to stop Ahmadis from calling themselves Muslims.
>It is not a religious Islamic state here.
>

I completely agree with you that Ahmadis have
every right to call themselves Muslims.

But a small clarification, sir.
when you say that 'you are voilating a well accepted
belief of Islam' do you mean to imply that
religious intolerance is a "well accepted belief of islam"?
Or is it something else ?
 
>>-- Shakil
>
>
>---raj
>
>
>PS: Some of these fanatics think that they are still in Pakistan or in 
                   ^^^^^^^^
>some other religious islamic state and can continue with the religious 
>persecution that is carried out back home in their countries. Yes sir,
>objecting to Ahmadis from calling themselves Muslims is religious
>persecution. I wish "Religious Tolerance 101" with a grade of B or above 
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>is made a pre-requisite for graduation in every university for people from 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>these countries.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>---raj


Maybe people, especially religious fanatics of ALL shades
and of ALL religions, even from our own country should be asked
to take this course.
I do not know about Pakistan. But, that would really help India.

>

-srinivas.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Usenet Culture (Was: Re: CFV? What's a CFV??)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:02:09 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen):
>As the use of Usenet broadens (and this is happening rapidly) the overlap
>in culture between the creators and the new users will become smaller.
>This is a problem in that it will become increasingly difficult for new'
>users to function within the system.

Imminent death of Usenet predicted.

>1. Less actual users of Usenet will be able to function well in it
>2. There will be less understanding of one culture by the other
>3. Disagreements regarding process will in general become more vocal
>4. The 'will of the net' will come to mean 'the will of the creators'
>5. Each group will likely feel intimidated, persecuted or simply annoyed  
>   by the other

"There is another theory which states that this has already occured."

In fact, point [4] is quite funny.  There never has been any such
thing as governance by the `will of the net', because control has
_never_ rested anywhere but with individual administrators.  Period.
Any other idea that you may have ("democracy"?) is 100% illusory.

>I maintain that there is a real demographics shift happening and that it
>will only get larger.

I believe in the demographic shift.  But I choose not to spend my
volunteer time making ignorance more comfortable.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
                 just another elitist Usenet administrator
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ian@nasser.eecs.nwu.edu (Ian Sutherland)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.fantasy
Keywords: fantasy RFD arts
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:30:18 GMT

Fantasy is frequently discussed in rec.arts.sf.*.  Is there something
lacking in these groups with respect to fantasy that you are trying to
remedy?
-- 
Ian Sutherland
ian@eecs.nwu.edu

Sans Peur
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: RFD: ?.?.FUZZY name poll [repost]
To: arras@fluke.icase.edu
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:54:09 GMT

In article <1eoehiINN8nu@rave.larc.nasa.gov> arras@fluke.icase.edu (Michael Arras) writes:

>Please mail me at:
>
>	arras@forwiss.uni-erlangen.de
>
>stating whether you like the name comp.ai.fuzzy, or sci.logic.fuzzy.

What of those people who do not prefer either name?  Some good points
were made for sci.math.fuzzy recently.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Re: About the elitism in news.groups
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:36:56 GMT

In a prior article, Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) writes:

> Catch-22.  If he had _not_ cross-posted articles to the music-makers group,
> he would be accused of not including the people who disagreed with him in the
> discussion.  (Actually, I think he was, though the last few hundred articles
> sort of run together after a while.)

Except that the preferred way to include interested people in a discussion
taking place in news.groups is to post _one_ message to their group (perhaps
with a catchy subject line like "Evil conspiracy trying to destroy our
group!!!"), encouraging them to subscribe to news.groups, not to crosspost
the entire discussion. Dave's comments about people unsubscribing from r.m.s
in disgust are probably accurate, but I suspect that their disgust stemmed
from the crossposted flame war none of them had any interest in, and not
from the name change, which would have been a virtual non-event if Dave
hadn't swamped the group with angry letters about it.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Is Dave Hayes wasting your tax dollars?
Keywords: waste in government
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:16:53 GMT

jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) writes:
>I could care less what you do at home, however, we do have a right to
>tell you how to run JPL because as taxpayers, we helped pay for it.

No you don't. Not at all. JPL is run by CalTech. Sorry. 

And if I had you as a boss, I'd quit instantly. :-)
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

A man had lost a ring. His friend stopped by that morning and offered to help.
By late-afternoon, his friend remarked "I don't see it anywhere. Are you sure 
you lost your ring here?"
"Oh no," replied the man, "I lost it in the room over there...but the room
is too dark. Here I can see better."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: Informing users how to vote
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:22:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.180845.1083@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
> Your response didn't address the comment, IMO. I maintain that the method  
> of dissemenating the inforamtion should be enforcable. You and I differ on  
> that point and I will continue to argue it.

Fine, but this is Usenet... not HuizenNet. There is no central organization,
no enforcement mechanism, nothing. If you want to create a new network with
your own rules and a mechanism for enforcing your policies and procedures,
then go ahead with my blessing. It's certainly possible: Brad Templeton has
done it.

In the meantime the rest of us will work with the net as it really is, instead
of some fantasy we've cooked up to feed our egos.

> Since this process is so important, doesn't it deserve better  
> documentation than this?

Write up a FAQ of your own, title it "How to vote in Usenet" or something
of the kind. Post it on a reghular basis. That's how things are done on
this net.

I'll be happy to help.
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD rec.games.netrpg
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:51:23 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov19.092841.24597@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.021628.18155@alf.uib.no> magnus@ii.uib.no writes:

>>The net.rpg posts constitute a pretty large volume [40+ messages/day]

>If it were made into a mailing list, major interim versions could be
>periodically posted to appropriate groups (rec.games.design, and
>rec.games.frp.archives) for playtest and comment.  New users could
>be culled that way, too.

First of all, _I'm_ not seeing 40+ posts a day total, never mind just the
net.rpg.  Second of all, rec.games.design is _for_ people to talk about
game design, which is what they are doing.  If you have a problem with
that, then propose breaking the group up in some generic fashion, don't
just try kicking out the stuff you don't like.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.
Via: uk.ac.leeds.scs; Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:31:27 +0000
Distribution: world
X-News-Gateway: NewsGateway@phaze.UUCP (NewsGateway 1.0 by Pierre Rioux)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:31:28 GMT
Newsgroups: news.groups
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
From: ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk
To: usenet@phaze.cam.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!

In article <7934@lib.tmc.edu> you write:
>In article <14649.9211201625@csparc12.scs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk writes:
>>Those of us that believe the proposal was "bad" are going to immediately
>>disregard your points, because we have just seen a "bad" example that
>>didn't get shot down during the RFD stage or voted down.
>
>YOU had the power to shoot it down during the discussion phase. Aside from the
>Guidelines-required notification messages, there was at least one actual
>discussion message, with a Subject: line that said without acronyms that there

Probably I did have the power to shoot it down in the discussion phase. 
Especially, considering how close that vote was, energising another 4 or
5 people should have been easy.

Unfortunately while I had the knowledge to vote (actually my vote was
Y Y Y Y N) I did not realise that such a IMHO silly proposal would pass.
NOW I do realise what can happen, and will make sure I use my "power" in
the future.

But, this doesn't refute my original argument. I disregard your original
points because they assumed that no bad proposals would ever get through.
Because I disagree with this premise, I consider all the following points
based on that premise in your original posting to be unfounded.

[not really related]

After reading news.groups for a while I do realise that I can have pretty 
well as much power as anyone here. Unfortunately, I cannot get excited about
voting on reorganisations that have nothing to do with me. But then, NO!,
these reorganisations DO have something to do with me. Some of them 
actually CREATE new groups, and these GO INTO MY .NEWSRC, AND TAKE UP
VALUABLE SPACE FROM MY DISK QUOTA....... ;-)

I believe that a lot of people on news.groups are pretty cozy with the current
situation, where they have (for various reasons) a highly unequal amount of
power viz. the vast majority of readers on the net. However, given the low
turnout of most votes, greater turnout from affected newsgroups could wipe
that power out pretty quickly. For example, the creation/non-creation of
soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya is obviously going to be decided by the Islamic
community on the net, and net.groups weenies aren't going to have any
noticable effect.

For this reason, I'm expecting some heavy duty opposition to any movement
to change the guidelines to increase general voter turnout is going to
descrease *YOUR* (if you are reading this) *POWER*.

And yes, I know that there are *some* people reading this who
put global fairness over personal influence. A big HI to all of you!

Cheers,

Ross-c
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:42:00 GMT

dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes:
> >>Dave, why not just stop replying to people's posts?  You're not going to
> >>change their minds, and they're not going to change yours.
> >You know, you're right about that. I don't know why not...maybe because
> >I'm having too much fun. :-)
>Gee Dave. Smiley or not this is the kind of remark I'd expect from John
>De Armond, not from someone who is trying to do something for the
>betterment of the net. 

So where'd you get those expectations? And who's John De Armond and what's
he got to do with me?
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Bribe (n.) - 1. Substitute for law.
Law   (n.) - 1. Substitute for justice.
Xref: sparky news.groups:22701 news.admin:8635
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
Subject: BAD music group reorg --- no doughnut!
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:01:44 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

>I cannot buy this in the case of a newsgroup where no one is real "up"
>on current news.groups procedures. People on usenet aren't necessarily
>aware that they CAN [be renamed], if they were in the general case then I 
>would agree with your counter-argument. 
>
>dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)

what is the [really offensive adjective] problem here?  

	if the user is intelligent, he has read n.a.nu and will recognize
	the importance of RFD and CFV in subject lines

	if he is NOT aware of such things, then he'll find the group under
	its new name --- if he can't, how did he find it in the first place?  

i see no problem here.

and for crying out loud, take "rec.music.makers.synth" out of the
newgroup line, since this has nothing to do with music.

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
From: irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith)
Subject: Usenet Documentation Revision Project : Update (Phase Zero completed)
Originator: irilyth@fenris
Organization: HMC Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:06:24 GMT

Here's an update on the Usenet Documentation Revision Project.

Phase Zero (gather existing documentation) appears to be completed. I now
have the following documents:

  A Guide to Social Newsgroups and Mailing Lists
  A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community
  Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet
  Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
  Hints on writing style for Usenet
  How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup
  How to Get Information about Networks
  How to become a USENET site
  Introduction to news.announce
  Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup
  Rules for posting to Usenet
  USENET Software: History and Sources
  What is Usenet?

The next step is to read and outline the existing documentation, which is my
next task and which I'm calling Phase One. I'll post an update when I finish
looking things over.

The Interested People List presently includes:

  Jim Huggins
  Peter da Silva
  Joshua Randall
  Chip Salzenberg
  Karleenus Schwartz
  Gordon Van Huizen

If I've missed anyone, drop me e-mail and let me know. It has also been
suggested that I contact Gene Spafford and let him know what I'm up to,
which I'll do Real Soon Now.

I don't at this point know whether I'll propose revisions to the existing
documentation, or whether I'll try to come up with an entirely new suite of
docs. Much will depend on the state of the current docs. Comments about the
advantages of one or the other? I'm particularly interested in reasons
unrelated to the specific contents of the documentation: for example, not
"That document is poorly written; throw it out," (I'll figure this out for
myself) but more things like "It will be difficult to distribute an entirely
new suite of documentation; you're better off working within the old
framework." (I have no reason to believe that's true, btw, at least not yet.)

When the time comes, I'll be soliciting ideas for revisions people would
like to see. That will be Phase Two, though, so please do NOT send me such
comments yet, unless you really really can't wait a week. Thanks much.
-- 
Josh Smith, User Support Coordinator  ::  irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA     ::  consult(std-disclaimer.pl).
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why
several of us died of tuberculosis." -Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Hijacking of democracy Re: S.R.I.A.
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:08:01 GMT

In article <1e68ruINNd0u@gap.caltech.edu>, majafri@cco.caltech.edu (Mansoor  A. Jafri) writes:
> In article <1992Nov14.183304.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>>Hijacking of democratic process by Mr. Mansoor Jaffrey
>>
>>I am very much appalled by the act of Mr. Mansoor Jaffrey who attempted to 
>>hijack the democratic process of creating a new group on the network. He posted
>>an article yesterday in News.group, News.anounce.news.group,
>>Soc.culture.pakistan, soc.culture.Bangladesh, soc.culture.india and
>>soc.relegion.islam about calling for vote with regards to the
>>soc.relegion.islam.ahmadiyya, illegally and dishonestly. I am very much
> 
> 	Before you go on, lets look at the sequence of events.
> 
> 	1. Rana submits a RFD to news.announce.newgroups. 
> 	2. Rana's RFD is approved by David Lawrence and posted.
> 	3. Rana posts a CFV on news.groups (without submitting to n.a.newgrps)
> 	4. Rana's above CFV is termed invalid, Rana apologizes.
> 	5. News.groups readers object to Rana as being a vote-taker as well
> 	   as the proposed moderator.
> 	6. Like anyone else could, I volunteered to take vote and sent 
> 	   a CFV to news.announce.newgroups.


Who have asked you to volunteer for taking votes? Don't distort facts. Instead
of being ashamed you are rather arguing your illegitimity. Its very surprising
that on the network people like you also have acces to defame the name of your
country and relegion. How a bias person can take vote for the group he oppose.
Its just an act of indecency, extreme dishonesty and untruthfulness. You don't
deserve any write to even write on the network. It is very clear to every one
that how uncivillized are you. If you can not keep democracy in your country
than at least don't try to steal democracy from here.
 


> 	7. David Lawrence approved it and posted it on news.announce.newgroups
> 	   and all related forums.
>         8. David Lawrence (without informing me & on basis of Rana's personal
>            note to him) cancells my CFV and posts Rana's instead.
> 	9. Raja reposts my CFV on other related groups.

I am sure that Raja is the other culprit beside you and he is fully involve in
this shameful act.
> 
> 	So there, you have it. If anyone is to be blamed for confusion it 
> 	is David Lawrence. If anyone needs to apologize it is YOU who went
> 	on smearing allegations on me without first finding out what is going
> 	on. Be careful next time. 
>>

What a logic? I am still thinking about your being so barave that even you are
caught redhanded still insisting for your innocence. If your conscience has
even little bit of life in it than you should ask from your self what sort of
wicked game you are playing. Are these civillized ways of winning? You are an
educated person you should have some moral values. 

>>Hameed Mirza
>>    
> 
> M.A.J

Hameed Mirza
Xref: sparky news.groups:22511 news.admin.policy:496
From: jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: RFD: Should rec.music.makers.synth stand as a group name?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:17:52 GMT
Organization: This space for rent.

Now, I feel slighted.  This thread started by my calling Dave's RFD
a bogus revote, wherein he replied, is not.

Dave> It is not a revote.
Dave> It is a newsgroup creation request worded in a different way.

stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
John> It is a vote on whether a previous vote should be accepted.
John> It is a revote.  

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
Ken> This is not obviously a sensible definition of "revote",
Ken> any more than the word "manslaughter" means "any situation
Ken> where a man is slaughtered".

The bogosity meter pegs the needle when held near your dictionary.
It sounds exactly like the definition of a revote to me.  In other words,

Is too.
-- 
Do not suffer the company of fools  ||  Jan Isley ...!gatech!bagend!jan
  Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha    ||  jan@bagend.uucp (404)434-1335
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:00:05 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Nov10.203619.15086@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> <97035@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<1992Nov13.081328.29087@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<JAAPJL.92Nov13143437@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>
	<1992Nov14.022032.2366@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov's message of Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:20:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.022032.2366@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

   jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
   >Some of us think you're playing the part of the fool, 

   Which, I might add....I enjoy doing. Especially when there's a cause. 

   >If you have further evidence, post it and we'll consider it
   >rationally, as we have with that presented so far (for the most part,
   >IMO).  If it's adequate to support your case, we'll discover that.
   >If not, we'll discover that as well.

   This is a very subtle straw man. There are some points there that I 
   cannot prove due to the nature of the net, but that are valid points 
   of contention anyway. 

Don't expect to convince us of anything by evidence we can't see.
Even my religious faith isn't that blind.

   >Dave, put up or shut up.  Please.  For the good of the net.

   I do not have to do either. Sorry.

I know you don't.  'Twas merely a suggestion.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.groups