HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: YA67@FERRIS.BITNET (carol nemec)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:08:42 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

The following is from Eric, responding to Tom...
-------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from christia: 17-Nov-92 Re: The Gospel Tom Brewer@LSUVM.BITNET (360)

> Get real. That's the kind of deception Jesse has been talking about. The
> Catholicism in America is extremely liberal and the majority of pew
> warmers know nothing of the RC doctrine.

Yes, indeed this is true.  Few American RCs know of the deep, deep dark
secrets about what the Catholic Church authoritatively teaches, such as
the authority and inspiration of Scripture, the literal resurrection of
Jesus Christ and of the dead, salvation by grace, the historicity of the
Gospels, the literal Second Coming of Jesus Christ, the primacy of
Christ, the vicarious sacrifice of Christ, and so forth.

I think this is unfortunate, because our job is to evangelize and
catechize these people.  But then again, we're not doing much worse than
the liberal Protestant denominations.  They have the same pew-warmers
who know little about their faith.  How many Presbyterians know their
church believes in predestination?

Rome laments the liberalism in the American Catholic churches.  It's
certainly not something that it's promoting, or is even happy about

Would that all Catholics really knew the teaching of the church!

Eric

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Seems to me we could substitute any...and I mean any, there are
none exempt...denomination of Christ's church in for Catholic.
We have a lot of pew warmers.  May the Lord unplug their ears
so that they can also hear His word while the pew is being
warmed.

Carol Nemec
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:45:51 CST
From:         Anthony Glen Jeffries <jeffries@IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      going nomail, GO AMES update, prayer requests

Since Thanksgiving Break is next week, and I will be in Minnesota, I am going
no-mail for a week :-(.  I am actually going to attempt to survive without
email and usenet.

I posted earlier about Go Ames, a project where my church is
distributing Gospel pamphlets to every household in Ames.  So far, about
9,000 such pamphlets have been distributed, which means we have covered about
half of the city of Ames.  We'll cover the other half in the spring, when the
weather is better for walking door-to-door.

Thank you for your prayers, and please keep this project in them.  It is
already starting to bear fruit.

Also, pray for all the people that will be travelling for the Thanksgiving
holiday.  The weather this weekend (and for the rest of the week, for that
matter) promises to be rather nasty in many parts of the U.S., including
the midwest (where I am).  I realize that Thanksgiving is not celebrated much
outside the U.S., but prayers for a safe week would be greatly appreciated.

See you all a week from Sunday, Lord willing!

Anthony Glen Jeffries
Iowa State University
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:02:59 CST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

Bill,
How can you say that it is natural for gays to be gay?   You are right about
one thing and that is When God speaks about a matter it is no longer a neutral
subject.  God speaks against it in the bible.  He word is true and it stand
when we are no longer.   We can either accept the word of God or we can try
to justify our wrong doings and that is simply rejecting God.  In God's word
there is no statement that says it is a natural feeling for a gay person to be
gay.

Janie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
X-Acknowledge-To: <LIBSAC@EMUVM1>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:44:57 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      REPLY-PRAYER REQUEST-LIZ

Dear Liz,

I must  say that you  have a tall  order - but praise  God He is  able to
answer every  request (Smile).  I'm glad  you are keeping  us up  to date
on the  situation with  your family. I  really believe it  is time  for a
break  through and  pray that  it comes  very soon  for everyone  in your
family.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We ask  You to heal every  member of Liz's  family from the top  of their
heads to the  soles of their feet.  We come against all  sickness and di-
sease  and pain  that wants  to  take root  in  this family.  We ask  you
Father to  let them  each have  a speedy recovery  in Jesus  Mighty Name.
We ask you to  give Liz strength and assurance that  there is nothing too
hard  for You  Father.  We thank  You  in adavnace  and  look forward  to
hearing about  their healings.  By faith  Father we  speak to  this moun-
tain  of sickness  to leave  in Jesus  Name. We  touch and  agree for  it
to  be  so  in  Jesus  Name.  In Jesus  Name  we  pray.  Amen  and  Amen.

Well Christia  this ends another  week for me. I  pray for those  who may
be leaving  for an early Thanksgiving  trip that you will  have a blessed
and  safe trip.  May the  love of  Jesus shine  through and  work through
you wherever  you may  go. Pray for  me and my  family. May  God continue
to keep us all  in His tender loving care, and may He  give you His love,
joy, and peace always.

Love,

Shelby==
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 18 Nov 1992 15:15:37 EST
From: World Leader <IK20050@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: TOLL-FREE PRAYERLINE

Hi folks!
I just wanted to share the number of a prayerline run by some very
wonderful people down in Maryland.  It's called "Greater Grace".


            1-800-338-7060

I believe it's a 24-hour prayerline.

In Christ,
      Andie.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:22:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

<Dan,
< Why are you trying to defend it so?

Because it is right that I do so.

Dan
From: HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET (Love does not subtract, it multiplies.)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays in the military
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:03:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"

<This may  well not  happen anyhow. Already  rumors are  circulating from
<several  sources that  if Clinton  does lift  the ban,  resignations and
<early retirement requests will number in the tens of thousands.

I seem to recall that the Armed forces were going to be downsized anyway.  If
allowing Gays in means that we get homophobes out of positions of power, I can
only chalk it up to evolution in action.

Given that some of the people who have been expelled from the military for
their orientation have been superlative in their performance, I doubt the
'phobes will be missed.

<I  also wonder  what the  reaction would  be to  "If you  are HIV,  it's
<instant dismissal."  After all,  if you  get cut,  you'll lay  there and
<bleed to death as none of us are  willing to put our life on the line to
<simply put  a band aid  on the cut.  That's actually now  circulating in
<Civil Air  Patrol training.  They suggest  you carry  a pair  of kitchen
<rubber  gloves just  in case  you  come upon  an injured  person in  the
<field. They also teach  you do *NOT* have to treat  a bleeding victim if
<you don't  want to. Because  of HIV/AIDS, you  just don't know  what the
<danger is of treating  a wound. In combat? There was a  case of a person
<on a bus crash that was unscratched but splattered with blood from other
<victims on  the bus  and converted  to HIV  positive. Again,  in combat?
<How many are willing to take the chance of "If you get shot, and some of
<your  blood gets  on  me, I  could  get  AIDS even  though  I was  never
<touched." The  CDC has  3 documented  cases of  blood on  intact skin...

I have not heard Clinton call for altering the military's policy of semi-annual
HIV testing with instant dismissal for those who test positive.  In any event,
people in the military already take chances when the lives of their comrades
are at stake.

<The Army  *DOES* test for  HIV. There is no  choice in the  matter. Will
<the gays want this  eliminated, or will they be hoping  that if they are
<tested positive they get free health care, again asking all us taxpayers
<to  pay for  their  lifestyle?  Not being  hateful,  I'm  not, but  just
<wondering what the motivation is...

The motivation is simple: there are a great number of Lesbians and Gays who
seek to serve the US in the military.  I haven't heard anyone ever say "I'll
join the army -- it's a great way to stay healthy."  Finally, I rather doubt
that Lesbians are concerned about getting health care for HIV, as they remain
one of the safest groups around.

Dan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:14:09 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The True Word of Allah
              19 Nov 1992 20:13:16 EST from <fqureshi@VTSSI.VT.EDU>

              ___   | |       |  ___   | |  /|  |  | |              |
             |  |  _| |         |  |  _| | /_|  |  | |    |  |  |   |
      o_|__|____| |   | | o |_o____| |   |   |__|__| |  o_|__|__|___|
  ___/   oo    ___|     |___|     ___|              ___/          o

  In   the   name  of   ALLAH,   the    Beneficent,   the    Merciful
______________________________________________________________________________
You too can have over $2,000,000! The Salmon Rushdie Lotto.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:34:59 CST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Being gay is offensive?

Tim,
Maybe I said it wrong, but God was here first.  God, the Son, and the Holy
Ghost are one and they were here before all of this stuff was formed.  When
Adam and Eve were first created Gays, atheist, and etc. were not around.  So
I don't think I said anything that was untrue.  You can discuss, disagree or
anything else but God's word is God's word and it will not change.  What God
has said he means.  We can still either accept it or reject.  Adulter's and
anything else God's word says is wrong then it is simply wrong.

I never said once that I hated homosexuals.  Because I don't.  I love
everyone with God's love. I don't like sin which I stated earlier.  I
never told anyone to use one part of the bible and not the other.  We have
to go by all of it.  As far as the fabric goes use common sense and if a
woman wants have intercourse while she is on period is beyond me.  I don't
because it's gross.  As far as arguments goes I'm not trying to argue I'm
just stating what the word says.  I still say that Christians have better
things to do than to argue about Gays.    Jesus loves them and so do I but
I'm not going to uphold anyone in there wrong doings.  They have to be
convicted themselves, the same as any Christians would for any wrong.

Janie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:02:00 -0400
From:         STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA
Subject:      Re: Disallowed Thanks 2

Bless you,  Jesse,  good to hear from you again.

Bill.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:06:30 EST
From:         Daniel Brabander <ST403077@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the military

I think it becomes very dangerous for us as humans to condem entire groups
of people else we should become like those who were ready to stone the
women at the well.  Clearly, that was not the response that Jesus made.
I don't think that alternative sexual lifesyles are any more offensive to
god then promiscuous heterosexually.  That certainly offends me more then
a manogous homosexual relationship.  I think the concept of justice love
put forth by the espiciplians (maybe it was the prespitirians) is viable.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 1992 12:53:37 -0700
From:         Terry Howard <TH6335@BROCK1P.BITNET>
Subject:      Thanksgiving

I would like to share a few Thanksgiving thoughts with my friends on Christia
I am thankful for the health of my family and myself.  My wife is recovering
from a herniated disc and is starting to get around a little better.  We will
celebrate our 25th anniversery next month.  My daughter is preparing to spend
a year as a missionary in Paraguay.  I am also graduating next month(24 years
delayed).  I am thankful for a job that I enjoy and that provides well for my
family.  I am also thankful for the friends that I have met through Christia.
May each of you have a joyous Thanksgiving Holiday.
                                                  Terry Howard
                                                  TH6335@BROCK1P
                                                  TH6335@ACSPR1.ACS.BROCKPORT.ED
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:17:44 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: The Koran is not Holy

Thanks for that post Leo, I fully agree with you.

Shalom,
Memo.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:30:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      One sin versus another.

Is it more of a sin to be a homosexual than to cheat on your income tax?

No, it is not.  There is only one sin to which a degree is given, that is
the unpardonable sin, which I'm not interested in discussing here.

Romans, chapter five, makes it abundantly clear that the sin of Adam is
imputed to every person born after him.  We are all born guilty of Adam's
sin, sinners  and sinful.  We are born condemned to hell.  Any sin we
commit here is, in the sense of salvation, irrelevant.  There aren't hotter
hells, so the amount of sin we commit, and the kind, has no eternal
significance, since we are hellbound unless God, in His sovereign grace,
plucks us from the burning.

Now, how about the sin of homosexuality?  It is a sin, so are lots of
things.  We should not any more condemn a homosexual than any other sinner,
of whom we, each and every one of us, is greatest.  The verses from Romans
1 do not suggest that homosexuality is a greater sin than any other, but
they do suggest that it has far more severe consequences than do others.

These consequences are not punishments, they are simply effects based on
human physiology, which is, apparently, not designed for homosexual
relationships.

If, as a Christian, you would denounce homosexuals, then you must denounce
every other sin that exists.  If you would counsel them that they are
courting physical problems in later life, then you show love.  God is no
more offended by homosexuals than He is by tax cheaters, petty thieves,
adulterers and people who cut others off on the Interstate.

Homosexuals have no more choice about their homosexuality than do you, any
of you, over your sins.  You were born a sinner and committed sin at the
first and nearly every subseauent opportunity.  If you are born again, you
are a new creature and sin is becomming less and less a part of your life.
This is true no matter what the sin is, homosexuality, or apple stealing.

I would urge any homosexuals reading this to consider that their sin is no
greater than any others, but, they will receive very serious consequences
in their bodies should they participate in the sexual aspects of being a
homosexual.  Notice that I differentiate the sexual from the mental.
Before I was married, I might have lusted, but did not partake.  Now, in
terms of sin, there is no difference, but in terms of physiology, there is
a very great difference.

I suggest that, regarding homosexuals, no more stones be cast, except by
members who have stopped sinning completely.

Am I going soft on sin?  Nope, not at all.  I'm just showing that we are
all sinners, and, so far as eternal consequences are concerned, homosexuals
are right there, in need of grace, as are all sinners.

Dan Graham
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Trinity...
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:53:25 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <aldavi01.721872406@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>, aldavi01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Arlie Davis) writes:

> Memo may be grammatically correct, but his semantic content is still under
> scrutiny.
> 
> What does the post _mean_?  Please understand: I am not a Christian, and I
> don't understand Christians.  I'm asking you, collectively, to explain what
> this one tiny post means.

All right; I'll try.

> Of course Jesus is God!
> Read Revelations.        [Memo means "Revelation". Big deal.]

The following lines are explaining why he considers that the book of Revelation
states that Jesus is God:

> The Alpha and the Omega is God and also the Lamb.
> The First and the Last is God and also the Lamb.

That is: Revelation describes Jesus as "the Alpha and the Omega", which
is equivalent to "the First and the Last", only more poetic; and also,
more directly, as "the First and the Last".
It is clear that these titles apply naturally to God (if you were reading
some piece of literature that you knew to have been written by someone who
believed in some sort of God, and these titles appeared in it, you wouldn't
have much trouble guessing who was meant), but the book of Revelation ascribes
them also (without great ado) to Jesus as well. So, the writer of Revelation
considered that Jesus is God.
In fact, Revelation claims to record a vision, which included an encounter
with (the risen, glorified) Jesus, and it is Jesus who claims himself to be
the First and the Last, and so on. So it's more than I said above: the writer
of Revelation quotes Jesus as claiming (implicitly) to be God.

> Worthy of all praise, honoy, glory.....is God and also the Lamb.

Well, obviously "honoy" is a typo for "honor" or "honour"; again, big deal.
The point, again, is that Jesus is described in terms which are most usually
reserved for God himself. In fact, I think Revelation describes Jesus *and*
God in terms very like these, again showing up the similarity of description.

The reason for all these pairs of nouns to which you took such exception
is that "God" and "the Lamb" are not a priori the same object; he's quoting
all these things precisely with the aim of showing that Revelation regards
them as the same.

Errm, I suppose I should mention that "the Lamb" means Jesus, because of the
analogy with sacrificial victims. (Well, it's more than an analogy; but you
know what I mean.)     

If you were thinking of complaining that Memo doesn't justify his trust in
the book of Revelation, please note that he's writing to a group of Christians
in reply to a question about Christian doctrine.


Incidentally, I make no claim of infallibility for my interpretation of
Memo's post. I hope he'll correct me if I'm misrepresenting him.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:26:51 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jesse a bit miffed 'bout his treatment by some!

Dear Steven et al ;

"How important is TRUTH?

Is it more importantthan mere opinions, or is it simply 'equal'?
When we deal with, say, the Gospel, just HOW important is that matter ...
especially in light of Heaven versus Hell?

Do we take all of this lightly?



Jesse Carnes
From: A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:48:59 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Yes, thanks fot the correction Marty.

But, I think that Jesse's problem is with Theological opinions, not with
doctrines.

BTW, It is a pity that our Church is so proud if herself that she can't
say 'Oh, excuse me, my mistake'.

Shalom,
Memo.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:47:47 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Thanksgiving

I've been very busy, and so I've been very liberal with the delete key, so
pardon me if some of what I'm about to say has been said before.

We had our church Thanksgiving dinner and service last night, and the pastor
reminded us about that first Thanksgiving.  For those of you who are not in
the U.S., Thanksgiving is more than a harvest festival.  And I think that
we ourselves often lose the real point of it all anyway.  Our historical
tradition tells us that those first Pilgrims celebrated Thanksgiving after
spending their first year in the new world.  We equate this with a bunch
of people having a bountiful harvest, and inviting any and every native
American to the feast that they could.  Some of our school children have
pageants, and we dress them up like pilgrims.

It really wasn't all so campy, though, four hundred years ago.  The Pilgrims
had placed their faith in God, intending to come to America and to worship
as they saw fit.  They found religious freedom for themselves, but at a
great cost.  That first winter was a terrible one.  They lost about half
of their population to the weather and to native American raids (I'm not
clear on the history here - I suspect they may have done their share of
raiding, to be fair).  I am told that they buried their dead secretly, so
that their enemies would not guess their plight.  Those who survived
persevered, and when spring came they planted.  That first Thanksgiving
was probably not nearly so bounteous as we Americans have been taught
in grade school.  But it was testament to a spirit of perseverence, and
a constant faith in God no matter what hardships must be endured.  That,
I believe is the legacy of the Pilgrims.  It isn't the turkey and dressing,
the cranberry sauce, the pumpkin pie or the sweet potatoes.  Sometimes, in
fact, I think all that food gets in the way of what Thanksgiving is really
all about.

God loves me.  He has given me life.  Everything else will fall into place
as he sees fit.

Brenda
Now bring on that turkey!!!