HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: marvel vs. Champions
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:16:22 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico


>>John H Kim writes:
>>>Iron Man's armor is clearly an "Only in Hero ID" limitation...

>Ken Arromdee writes...
>>Here I think there _is_ a hole.  If the armor is Only In Hero ID, it's
>>impossible for someone else to put on the armor and use it without
>>ugly kludges 

Ninstar Cybermage writes:

>It's not necessary to say "Only in Hero ID".  Iron Man's armor is a bunch of
>powers bought with the OIF limitation.(Obvious Inacessable focus)  If someone
>can disable Iron man they can indeed take the armor off him.  But they can't
>actually use it unless you also add the "independent" limitation, which means
>that the function of the focus is not dependent on the character.  

Not neccessarily. A focus can be used by any other person if it is defined 
as a universal focus. Independent means that not only can it be used by 
another person, but the originator will have severe trouble replacing it 
(Now that doesn't sound like Tony "Suit for Every Season" Stark, does it?)

Moreover, I believe the armor should be multiple smaller pieces of OIF
(not stacked) One for the boot, one for the glove, etc. There have been
times when he's cornered with his briefcase, but no time to change fully.
So he goes off hopping on one boot and one glove. Does Michael Jackson
one better, IMPO.
-- 
Ass, n.:
	The masculine of "lass".
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 20 Aug 1992 18:47:00 EDT
From: <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: Marvel vs. Champions

 One of our esteemed collegues back there seemed to imply that Champions isn't
a good system to introduce new players to. My wife would disagree-the first
RPG she ever played was Champions back in 1982. It's still one of her faves,
and she DESPISES Marvel Super Heroes, even though we played it for years. In
fact, the only game she likes better is GURPS Cliffhangers!
                                             shock
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: GURPS Total Rewrite
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:01:24 GMT

doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller) writes:
>>"World class sprinting (100yard in 9-10 seconds) should be possible by a 
>>playable, non-optimised 100 point character, but isn't in GURPS."
>
>I must disagree.  Given the stated talent level of a 100 point character, I
>think that it *SHOULD* be impossible to build a world-class ANYTHING into a
>playable, non-optimised 100 point character.

	But it's not. You can build a world class linguist on 10pts, a world 
class physicist on not too much more, etc. 

	World-class stats and physical skills are impossible, but not world 
class advantages (+8 Charisma) or mental skills (Acting-30). I think this is 
a little annoying at times, because I don't think Olympic athletes and other 
gifted types should be so unbalancing to play. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with 
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy)
Subject: Re: sprinters revisited (was Re: GURPS Total Rewrite)
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:10:39 GMT


[Commentary as to how running depends more on ST than DX, so DX should
be replaced by ST on the "(DX + HT)/4 = Move" bit....]

Hmmm... That could be amusing.. Lemme see, here's my cat-centaurs,
lower-body ST of 20 (upper body ST of 10 -- so far, not terribly
unbalancing in a TL 11-13 game), HT 13, Increased Speed 1, enhanced move
1.... (They get a sprint of twice-move for about 20 seconds.)

And don't forget buying up Running skill. The first biological creatures
to hit warp speed on a planet! :-)

Oh, well... The price for "no fine manipulators" increased ST will just
go up, and I knew that race creation stuff was dicy when I did it. 

(Maybe the DX was used in the equation to handle people tripping over
their own feet, cornering fast, that sort of thing? <shrug>)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: marvel vs. Champions
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:38:47 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <smf-d3+@engin.umich.edu> jlb@engin.umich.edu (Jeffrey Lawrence Bailey) writes:
>   and the GM has little recourse against "But the points work!".  For Marvel,



Sure, if the GM is such a complete and utter wimp that a world-killing power
would be allowed.  I've NEVER met such a weak willed spineless milksop as
a Champions GM myself.  Here at Purdue, we have a long practice (from 
first edition, first printing Champions) in campaigns of setting limits on
maximum attacks, maximum defenses, maximum speeds, etc.  We also have a
long-standing practice of GM review for cheesiness.  If a character is too
munchkin in design, it gets sent back to the player for a revision.  And it
doesn't matter if "the points work" or not.  The point of roleplaying (at
least in the Champions campaigns around here) is not to "win" it is to
play--with others, not just with yourself.  (And after all, doing whatever
one can to have the most powerful character in a campaign is just another
way of playing with yourself, no?)
From: Jesse.Taylor@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jesse Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: OOPS!!!  Survey
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:32:18 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <920820082400_70253.2621_CHC20-1@CompuServe.COM> 70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:
>It seems my post intended for alt.satanism made it to a few other places
>that it was not intended to go.  This note is an apology for anyone
>inconvenienced.  I posted to alt-satanism@ucbvax.berkeley.edu, and somehow
>it got posted here too.  Judging by the responses publically and
	Somehow got posted here?! What was it then, an act of (the) god(s)?

>privately, it started quite a stir ?-). 
	<grin> Naw, 40 bazillion messages isn't a stir...

>Once again, sorry.  If you are really inflamed, really sorry.  If you are
>sooooo inflamed that you cant sleep at night, see a shrink.  Anyway, no
>harm or waste of bandwidth intended.
	Oh, of course... nothing is ever intended... :)

>Don't extend this thread.  Kill the survey thread if you wish, or keep it
>going.  It seems like a lot of folks had fun with it.  Please, no more
>e-mail however.  It's getting discarded without being opened (just no
>time to read it) so don't waste time sending it.
	Oh, a whole lotta people had fun with it... And a whole lotta
people got real p!ssed about it... Next tyme, check your posting program
BEFORE ya post, so we don't have to put up with this agin'. 

>Best wishes,
>CDC
	CDC? Civvie-Defense-Complex? <slap> Man, been on rec.games.board
too long.... :)

>Distribution:
>  Everyone >internet:soc-motss@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>  rec.games.frp >internet:rec-games-frp@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>  >internet:sci-physics@ucbvax.berkeley.edu >internet:sci-physics@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
	Uhm... What's this for?

@:-] -(Don't take offense at any of the stuff in this message... It just
encourages me....)

JT

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: beast@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Beast of Mentor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: SR: A few Questions...
Summary: Evading IR detection, coolant
Keywords: SR, SRun, ShadowRun, Shadow Run
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:07:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <BtAM74.G2q@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White) writes:
>
>In Predator II, the capture team had insulated suits cooled with liquid
>nitrogen.  That is a workable scheme.  I *think* that the LN2 was both
>for personal cooling and [groan, snicker] freezing the predator.  

	>>>[ Hehehe, but it didn't quite work, did it? ]<<<
	-Predator

As I recall, those suits were a tad bulky.  I want something stealthy, and
easy to manuever in.  Would I be able to do that with the N2?  Or would some
high-tech endo-thermic concoction be better for that?

I'm trying to design armor simmilar to the Predator's, except undetectable by
any means (like IR, Ultra-Sound, light, etc).  I have a good idea of what to
stick in it (thanks for your example, Meastro!), but I'm not sure about the
bulk.  It's for a Troll, so he can carry pretty much whatever I stick in it,
but I just don't see doing double back-flips in full heavy armor with an ecm
and nitrogen tank in the back, as well as the insulation for the N2.
Can I black-box it and say 'this is 2055, it can* be done'?

-Predator
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: trip@cco.caltech.edu (Trip)
Subject: Re: Hero System damage
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:15:26 GMT

josephk@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Kuo) writes:

>50 defense for tank armor?  Not hardly.  If you look at the rules for armor
>in the realistic game, +2 def = x2 weight.  1mm steel is about def 6, so
>tank armor should be 12-14 frontal..they're being kind to make it even
>as high as it is.

These are the rules that let normal humans dismantle a car bare-handed
in minutes, remember. They will *not* give realistic results. If you
want something reasonable, start by doubling the Def. Then, 512mm of
steel is 12+(9*2) or 30 Def. (Tank armor is rated at 5-600mm steel, as I
recall.)

Trip				|   Never stay a minute too long
President, ECNG			|   Don't forget the best will go wrong
(trip@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu)	|   Nobody's on nobody's side
				|			-_Chess_
From: rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Survey-
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:18:29 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <57259@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, holmes@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan) writes:
> 
> Concerning -Survey's---
> 
> Ok, I give, I have no idea where this stuff came from and why the F*CK
> it is on .frp in the first place...
> 
> It is an interesting Survey, I -might- grant you, but if I had wanted to
> read it, I wouldn't have looked here for it...
> 
> -Keith

This is the first posting on this thread I've been able to read! Would some
kind soul please send me a copy of the original message (or at least the
header) so I can try to figure out which of the groups our site censors it
was X-posted to?

(Now I bet I'll be flooded with the thing, thems the breaks :)
-- 
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh | 95 Fairfield Rd | I can't reply to E-Mail, but 
rmarsh@waikato.ac.nz  | Hamilton        | don't let that stop you sending.
+64 7 855 4406        | New Zealand     |
From: arioch@cellar.org (Arioch)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: future of rec.games.frp
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:15:24 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

I have heard that this newsgroup is going down on 8/25/92. Is this true? If 
so, what is going to replace it?

------
arioch@cellar.org (Arioch)
The Cellar BBS - (215) 654-9184
From: jgould@adobe.com (Jim Gould)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: REPOST:Gurps FTP site
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:24:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe

Hello,

 Just posting again, looking for a FTP site that has GURPS (pref. fantasy)
info, adventures, suggestions for play...

Thanks for the time
Jim Gould

E-MAIL me
jgould@adobe.com

"I was their number one son, but they treated me like number two..."
-- The Penguine
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White)
Subject: Re: SR: A few Questions...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:49:49 GMT
Keywords: SR, ShadowRun, SRun, Shadow Run

beast@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Beast of Mentor) writes:

>Another question, what would the effect of an ECM device be on cybereyes, or 
>on electronic imaging equipment (ultrasound/thermo/low-light goggles + sights)?
>What would the effect of fire-extinguishers be on thermographic eyes?
>Is there anyway (in addition to the Stealth skill) to reduce noise (on a
>person, not vehicle), an equivilant to nightingale slippers?  Does a full suit
>of armor hide a person's odor, or make it worse (it's stuffy in there)?
>	-Predator, the Silent Hunter

Good question.  Depends on a lot of things.  SR targetting systems and
ECM are very abstracted devices.  There are, loosely speaking, two
different ways to acquire a target: with an optical image or a radar/sonar
image.  And the more you think about, the more it will become apparent
that these two are much the same when it comes to slugging it out
in the trenches.  The most straightforward way to foil them are to use
smoke and mirrors.  It is obvious what I mean by smoke: normal smoke, IR
smoke, chaff, etc.   By mirrors, I mean alterate light sources, i.e.
flares.  Flares will tend to screw up targetting.  Try looking at those
big searchlights next time you go out to the stadium for a nightgame.
Flares are effective because they swamp an important range of frequencies
easily.  Doing the same trick to radar is a bit more subtle.

Shadowrun countermeasures seem to be limited to magic little black boxes.
So, I would interpret these to function in the spirit of radar jamming.
Therefore, I would say that they do *not* affect optical systems such as
cybereyes.  (Really, the 21st century will have optical targetting
systems aplenty; but, since, by my book, convenience of play is more 
important than realism, ignore this annoying fact.)  Use smoke to foil
the eyesight.  Would a fire extinguisher work against cybereyes?  Sure.
The obnoxious powdery ones are quite effective against normal eyesight;
should be about the same vs. IR.  Takes about a turn to fill up a hallway,
and it dissapates about 6-9 seconds.


--Peter


______________________________________________________________________________
						|
     "Guards!  Let me draw their fire!"		|	p-white@uiuc.edu
		   --Scapegoat,_Marshal Law_	|
______________________________________________________________________________
From: josephk@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Kuo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: Hero System damage
Date: 19 Aug 1992 01:16:57 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

50 defense for tank armor?  Not hardly.  If you look at the rules for armor
in the realistic game, +2 def = x2 weight.  1mm steel is about def 6, so
tank armor should be 12-14 frontal..they're being kind to make it even
as high as it is.

Minor gripe, tho: a 500 mm wall of steel has def 19, body 14 (I think that body
is right, its within 2-4 points).  Where do they get these numbers?

Also, if you believe first edition DI, doubling of the amount of high
explosive adds _2_ damage classes, not 1.  I tend to like this because
it makes nukes 50-70 DC instead of 20-30.
From: page@hurricane.cs.odu.edu (D.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Email and Postings
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:18:35 GMT
Organization: Old Dominion University Dept. of CS, Norfolk VA

>This is a message to Beth Savage.  If that is not your name, please hit
>'k' now.


>Any other nosy people who got this far can feel free to reply if they think
>they can help.  Otherwise, just BUTT OUT!  THIS IS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION!


This is the reason for email you yo-yo.
Please keep your postings civil.
And Fuck Off.


-- 
"We control the vertical, we control the horizontal,
we control those endtables that you are forever bashing
your big toe into that end up with you hopping and
howling all over the room, and we control Dan Quayle."
From: shoopak@romulus.rutgers.edu (-r.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Children and Good/Evil (derived from the Clinton thread)
Keywords: good, evil, right, wrong, child, children
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:27:44 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Not to be picky:

	Does that not presume that the child "inherantly" know
	the difference between right and wrong?  I mean to say
	that if a child is presented a situation in a neutral
	environment and context, how will they interpret it?

	Also, note that the same child if told that Santa Claus
	bring toys to little children if they are good, and is
	told this by someone using a "hateful/tempered" voice,
	then it is possible that the child will associate Santa
	with that tone.

	Thus, without "over" exposing the child, cannot one "teach"
	them by using proper inflection and body language?  Children
	are, after all, very astute, no?

What's your opinion?  We'd like to know...

p.s. Note: the above is just a situational-proposition based on the "facts"
	   already given in previous article...as to the veracity of those
	   "facts;" only the reader may determine whether they are or are
	   not true.  Thank You.

-r.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: GM RPG computer aides for RoleMaster/MERP
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:34:18 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Aug11.215323.180471@cs.cmu.edu> cscott+@CS.CMU.EDU (Curtis Scott) writes:
>In article <1992Aug9.012234.777@lclark.edu>, cos@lclark.edu (John Costello) writes:
>|>If it doesn't exist, then I think I'm 
>|>going to start working on such a beastie, which would include all of the
>|>weapon charts in Arms Law ...
>|>
>|>Quite the task. We'll see if it happens. :)  (Anyone want to enter all of the
>|>tables and charts into data files?  Nah, didn't think so.  :)  Hopefully, I
>|>can discover some mathematic formula which will simplify the charts greatly)
>
>If you study the weapon tables, you'll discover a number of interesting things.
>I did a quick study, and came to the conclusion that each column could be
>parameterized by a series of values:
>
>1)	Base number where it starts doing damage
>2)	Increment of damage per +1 on the die (generally fractional, so
>	that it takes multiple increments to get a +1 damage)
>3)	Base number for each level of critical (A, B, C, D, or E)
>4)	Pattern of criticals (all Ps, PKPKPK..., etc.)
>
>This works out to about 10 numbers (depending upon how you encode the
>criticals). Since this is an algorithm rather than a repeat of the tables,
>it may or may not be copyright (I'm not claiming to know). In any case,
>it takes a lot less time to do this than to retype all the tables, should
>you decide to do this.

	I believe I recall reading somewhere that ICE created the various
weapon charts using certain algorithms.  Perhaps they could be coaxed into
supplying said algorithms?

Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pcalvert@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: admin: SURVEY apology, plus some frp stuff
Date: 20 Aug 92 08:20:08 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide

re: the survey article posted by Chris Colvin

I emailed Chris and he informed me that the article was not intended to
be cross-posted to r.g.frp

I quote

"I don't know how this got cross posted to so many groups but it did.  It
was directed only to alt.satanism.  Perhaps the *@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
daemon machine messed up when posting the note.  Anyone who was offended,
sorry.  You can respond to alt.satanism, I'll read your responses there."

I can't find out which other groups this was crossposted to on my
newsreader, but if anyone else can, then feel free to forward Chris's apology
to them, once again I quote
"If you would forward this to the newsgroups affected (except alt.satanism) I
would appreciate it:" [in reference to the above quote]

OB FRP stuff:
If a wand of negation is fired successfully on a magical item, and then the
magical item (now negated) is hit by a rod of cancellation, can the item be
recharged, or does the rod cancell the negation, or what?
Note that an item drained by a rod cannot be restored even with a wish
(2nd ed DMG p.152), whereas no such restriction is placed on the wand.

							...sage
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Hero System damage
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:06:56 GMT

porterg@gems.vcu.edu writes:

>In my own personal conversion scale (using 3G^3), I have the following
>numbers for current weapons:

>The only real problem is the variability you get with such a low number of
>dice.  It's the old "I rolled well, so my rifle goes through armor that should
>have stopped a .50 cal".  My house rule is that *average* damage is applied
>vs. armor, and you roll 1d6 for each 3 points that get through.

>This means that for instance, a DEF 4 bulletproof vest will always stop the
>BODY from a 9mm hit, and we'll count blunt trauma as the STUN that gets
>through (can't have everything work out just right...).

Good idea. If you do that, you should also use the hit-location rules.
Sometimes the bullet will miss that DEF 4 vest, or DEF 6 helmet etc.
You might also put activation limits on some of the armor, representing
partial coverage of that area. In a super-hero campaign, or cinimatic
campaign where you are not using hit locations, I would suggest putting
activation rolls on almost all armor. A roll of 14 or less might represent
full body armor with only some joints etc. less protected. A roll of 8 or less
might represent an armored vest.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 20 Aug 1992 07:41:32 EDT
From: <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: RE: marvel

 Methinks the good sir has never heard of Champions...
From: gsw@trac3000.ueci.com (Greg Washington)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: General Question about Groups
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:02:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp
Distribution: usa
Organization: UE&C - Catalytic in Philadelphia, PA

Hello out there in netland,

I am new to this group,  I moved into the area about a year ago and
I can not find a group to game with.  I read in other newsgroups about
a reorganization of r.g.f (or was it an attempt) that included an group
about people looking for groups.

Basically could someone steer me in the right direction.  I read a message
about California and that was it but me being in Philly could do little
with the information.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Greg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             Gregory S. Washington
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| When facing a difficult task          |         | Enjoy Life to the fullest |
|    Act as if it is impossible to fail |         | because there is one less |
| So, if you are going after Moby Dick  |         | day to the rest of your   |
|    Take along the tartar sauce        |         |        life               |
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UUCP:  ..!uunet!trac2000!gsw       INTERNET:  Greg.Washington@trac2000.ueci.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp