HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:00:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <shari-121192113601@mac3.almanac.upenn.edu> shari@pobox.upenn.edu (Shari Bart) writes:
>
>Well, Mike
>If Brahms 1st symphony or any of them for that matter did *nothing* for
>you, I don't know that there's much hope.  However, try the Brahms B-flat
>major piano trio if you're looking for chamber music.  Or any of the piano
>quartets or quintets.  And definitely listen to the violin concerto and
>while you're there, try the Brahms Double for cello and violin.  If none of
>these works "grab you by the throat and make you beg" then I don't know
>what.  I like Mahler too but I don't think you need to *choose*.  Brahms
>and Mahler are two very different composers. You can like Mahler and Bach,
>why not Mahler and Brahms?
>
>Shari Bart

Oh, I agree completely!  I am not trying to choose - I already enjoy a great
variety of classical and romantic music, and my point is that I really would
like to enjoy it all!  You cannot have too much great music, after all!  Some
of my friends think my lack of appreciation for Brahms comes from my love of
more 'modern' music, e.g., Mahler, Wagner, Strauss, and just recently 
Shostakovich...This is not true, however.  As much as I love my late Romantics,
the composer that affects me deepest is far and away the great Ludwig van.  I
cannot listen to my Klemperer 'Fidelio' without crying - If I so much as listen
to some of this music 'in my mind's ear' I often get a lump in my throat - The
same is true of the 3rd mvmt of the 9th.  So when I hear people say that Brahms'
1st is somehow like a Beethoven's 10th, I can only shake my head in wonder.
IMHO, these two have absolutely nothing in common.  I guess when I listen to
Beethoven, I really sense how he is just pouring his heart out - this music
makes you feel his pain, his struggle, his indomitable spirit, and this might
sound really wierd, but I almost feel like I am him, when I listen...Then again,
to me that is the whole point of great art - letting someone else into your
soul for a little while.  Anyway, I will stop rambling on...Perhaps we can kill
this thread now, and after we Brahms-unconverted have sampled some more of his
music, we can report back with good news.  I don't want people to think that I
am flaming Brahms or his fans...But I can certainly see how you feel.  If
someone was to make a similar post about Mahler, (and I would'nt be suprised
now if they do!) I would be at a loss for words...

Mike Hurben
From: lambert_l@ab.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Help finding Paganini!
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:00:47 GMT
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College

Does anyone out there know how I can get some music by Paganini?
I have looked for him everywhere and can't seem to find any of his music
releases anywhere.  I really like his music, so any help would be appreciated.


  Thank You in Advance,


    Lisa Lambert
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Salome
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:13:51 GMT

> Tony Movshon writes:
>
> Incidentally, there is no recording to surpass the Nilsson/Solti Vienna
> recording of 1961, either in interpretation or in sound. Hear it once,
> and you'll forget Studer and Sinopoli forever.
>


Although I haven't gone out of my way to investigate the competition, the
Solti one is definitely outstanding. It really gives me the creeps at the
end. I've listened to this one ever since it came out in the 60's.
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Re: Piano transcriptions
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:09:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.17261
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Stephen Smoliar writes:
>
> As far as transcriptions of the [Mahler] symphonies are concerned, only two
> such were performed by the Society for Private Musical Performances;  and
> neither was arranged by Schoenberg.  The very first Society concert
> concluded with the seventh, transcribed by Alfredo Casella.  The following
> year, the sixth was performed in a transcription by Alexander Zemlinsky.  I
> have no idea if either of these was published, but I would certainly like
> to see them.


This is some info about who arranged which symphony for 4-hands piano,
according to the back cover of my rapidly disintegrating copy of Mahler's 9th
for 4 hands:

#1 (UE catalog number 947) -- Br. (presumably Bruno) Walter
#2 (2937) -- H. Behn (there is also an arrangement for 2 pianos, 8 hands by
"Bocklel" (3638)
#3 (951) -- Woss (also available, the Glockenchor arr. for 2 hands by Woss
(3602) and the Menuett 2 hands by Friedman (3703))
#4 (953) -- Woss
#5 -- not included, but I have a copy of this published by Kalmus
#6 (2775) -- Zemlinsky
#7 (2984) -- Casella
#8 (3390) -- no arrangement credit given (piano arrangement only, piano
arrangement with text is by Woss (2660))
#9 (3397) -- Woss

Symphonies 1-5 were all presumably in the public domain, since they were all
published some years ago in cheap editions by Kalmus.

As far as Schoenberg is concerned, I would like to get a copy of his
arrangement for piano 4 hands of 15 numbers from The Barber of Seville. I
wrote to Universal Edition many years ago, but they wanted $50 for a Xerox
copy!
From: edente@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Piano Showpiece
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:11:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: pearl.1992Nov9.151137.1
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

If you are at the Mozart sonata level, you have a wide range of material
open to you.  For someone just approaching that stage, though, I would
suggest any number of the Chopin mazurkas, but, even more, Chopin's
Prelude in D-flat (Raindrop) - it's not exactly virtuoso, but you can
produce some very interesting effects in a relatively easy to play
piece.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Help Required. Dodecacophony. ;-)
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:10:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.211719.18280@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:

>The argument that people don't like it because they don't have a lot of
>knowledge about the music is silly. Music is primarily an emotional
>medium where the listener FEELS it's expressiveness. 

That's not the argument. The argument has "understanding" in place of
your "knowledge". The difference is that understanding is a largely
intuitive process. But it depends on familiarity, and I'll lay you
odds most people aren't nearly as familiar with atonal music as they think.
Simply because, as I said before, there's a chicken and egg problem. To
really become familiar with something, you have to like it enough to
want to become familiar, and so on. But if I can do it, so can you.

And, if you can't feel the expressiveness of the last few minutes of
Lulu, you got more problems than I can solve. Nyah nyah.

Finally, all these words describe vague concepts; anybody with an axe to
grind and a marginally clever way with them can make things sound silly
if they want. 

>If atonal music
>needs to be listened to with a manual to fully enjoy its work (and
>sufficiently praise its creator) than it ceases to be an emotional
>medium.

But it doesn't, so you can't get there from here.

						Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: k22164@kyyppari.hkkk.fi (Mikko Reinikainen)
Subject: Re: Questions
Date:  8 Nov 92 18:38:34 GMT
Organization: Helsinki School of Economics, Finland

In <Bx59nn.LCx@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> reidkb@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Kenneth B Reid) writes:
> 
>(1) Why is classical music cheaper than any other kind?. The average cost of a
>rock C.D. is about 13 pounds here while it is not uncommom for a classical
>C.D. to cost 8 or 9.

Curious, in Finland it is just in the other way round: Classical CDs'
normal price is FIM 120 (about USD 24, midprice about USD 15) and
other kinds of music is around FIM 60 (USD 12), - I don't know the
exact prices for pop as I have never bought any.

>(2) Who owns classical music?  I mean who owns the rights to it, is there some
>form of copyright or can any bunch of musicians plunder anything they want? Or
>do the distant relatives of Bach get 1 cent each?


Most western countries are participants in Bern General Agreement,
1886 which has been revised many times and to which even U.S.A with
its peculiar systems (like the need for using a certain signs: c -
copyright sign, p -sign for the first publishing, tm - trade mark
sign) is today in connection.

The music itself is just like any other form of artistic work:
re.g. novels and paintings ( 2nd artcicle in the agreement) to which
7th article grants 50 years of copyright.

The performances are somehat different: at least in U.S.A. they are
given the normal copyright, but Europe the right for performance is
subject to different rules as part of the "neighbouring rights". In
Finland the performers have exclussive right to their performance
(recordings of it etc.) for 50 years since it was first published. 
I think the situation is quite similar elsewhere, too.


	Mikko Reinikainen
--
Mikko Reinikainen
k22164@kyyppari.hkkk.fi
Helsinki School Of Economics and Business Administration
Helsinki University/Faculty Of Law
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: iba@rti.rti.org
Subject: question
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:20:18 GMT

I would like some help.  I was listening to a local classical music
station this past weekend and heard a really nice piece called,
`The South Bohemian Suite.'  I didn't catch the composer's name.
Anyone know who wrote it?  I am interested in buying the CD.

Ingrid

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu> (Rob Brooks)
Subject: Re: STRAVINSKY
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:46:31 GMT

In article <2AFB6D53.9873@news.service.uci.edu>, josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh
Stern) writes:
> 
> In article <F7PTTB3w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge) writes:
> > 
> >I recall somebody here mentioning that they have a copy of the 'RITE OF 
> >SPRING' for ONE piano.

> >HausDerLuge
> 
> 
> There is a pianola version, based on a roll prepared by Stravinsky,
> which appears as a coupling for the Rite of Spring performance 
> conducted by B. Zander with a semi-professional group from Boston
> on IMP.  The pianola `performance' is very effective, particularly
> in the driving rhythmic sections which are taken at very fast tempos.
> Zander more or less duplicates these tempos with his orchestra but
> does not succeed in duplicating the, literally, knife-edged precision
> and bite of the pianola - to my mind, Boulez' Cleveland performance
> does a better job of capturing the essence of this precision and bite
> with an orchestra, doing so at much slower tempos.
> 
> Perhaps, in any case, it is this pianola version that you are thinking
> of.  Though this is one instrument, the scoring is not, I believe, something
> which would be physically possible for a single pianist to perform.

I may be competely imagining this but I think I remember Zander saying that
the pianola roll was done by Stravinsky himself (with a few "cleaning up"
jobs done later).  He must have been quite a pianist.
 
> Josh
 
Rob (rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu)
 



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: Messiaen at Notre Dame?
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:06:01 GMT

Messiaen played at Eglise de la Trinite (sorry no accents available) in 
Paris. Not Notre Dame.

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:53:27 GMT

zhu@blaze.rutgers.edu (Yi Zhu) writes:


>usual info about the number, then a pause, then almost as an
>afterthought, adds a 4 digit number, e.g. 1865, 1934, 1786.  I found

	Automated stations often use tricks like this to
	cue the person who's actually making the tape, since
	cheap is the name of the game and the guy they hire
	doesn't need to know anything about music.  He just
        punches the button when he hears the cue word.

>Incidentally, the same DJ seems to be there all day, and possibly all
>night, with the same monotonic voice.  He'll definitely have a hard

	Although I was not aware that KDFC was using one, there
	are program services that provide continuous material in
	whatever format the station is selling.  These signals
	are beamed down to the subscribing station via satellite. 
	The local station simply adds commercials, also automated,
	for the local market.  Again, somebody needs the cue words
	so he'll know when, for example, a Beethoven symphony
	_really_ has ended!  

	With technology being what it is, it is certainly
	feasible for a computer to be programmed to recognize
	a number (1706, for example) and do the switching
	without having anybody around at all.  This may very
	well be the practice now.

 	Don't you just love technology?
-- 
"Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
Tom R. Rice   WB6BYH                   Holler Observatory - 
tomrice@netcom.com                     Longitude:  121 d  30 m  20 s W 
CIS: 71160,1122                        Latitude:    37 d  25 m  10 s N 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: RE: Name this tune ...
Organization: Visual
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:42:43 GMT

>A friend asks:

  What is the very shimmery opera used as the score for I Heard the Mermaids
  Singing, and now on TV in the British Airways and Princess Borghese cosmetic
  commercials? am dying to know -- would also like to know the best CD version
  of this opera.

>I neither know what "I Heard the Mermaids Singing" is nor have I seen the TV
>commercial.  Any takers?

"I Heard the Mermaids Singing" is an off-beat movie about a charming woman
who leads a rather Walter-Mitty-ish existence.  

The music used is that aria (duet?) from Delibes' opera "Lakme".  I think
it has something to do with flowers.

Sorry to be so skant in terms of specifics, but I'm at work and quite
verklepft.

Rob



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:52:55 GMT

In article <1dciv9INNsd8@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>Ian Murray (ian.murray@synapse.org) wrote:
>: They say he was one if not the most prolific composers of the
>: period...perhaps he was a "formula" man who found his niche and
>: profitted from it at the cost of quality.  Everything I've heard sounds
>: the same to me. 
>
>This to me is a fairly apt description of Mozart.

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

	And *this*, to me, is the statement of someone, who, in
	an attempt to profess great knowledge, takes what he sees
	as a radical stance, and instead comes off looking
	somewhat blindly opinionated.

	I am not saying that you should *like* Mozart,
	but to say he was a "formula" man who found... etc...
	is ridiculous. I could quote examples to prove otherwise, 
	but I take it you are fully aware of what examples I would quote,
	so I won't bother.

	I say that neither M nor H were formula composers, and
	to call them so would be ignorant.

>
>For Haydn try late symphonies, late string quartets, masses, 7 last
>words of Christ, Seasons. 

	Or, even simpler, try "Most Beautiful Appear" or "On Mighty Pens"
	from The Creation.

	Cheers!

	Kyle.
   ,------------------------------.,---------------------------------.   \._,
  /   7   ,7  o             o     / kldawkins@cayley.waterloo.edu    /   < /
 /   /--<'   /   /  ,  /   /     / kldawkins@descartes.waterloo.edu /     ' 
/  -'    `--'`--'`-'`-'`--'`-   / kldawkins@napier.waterloo.edu    /    /7 
`------------------------------'`---------------------------------'    //  NZ!
"Don't call me God. Call me Pope so I have something to aspire to."    '
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Ockeghem CD wanted
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:51:53 GMT

I would very much like to have a copy of a CD that the socially responsible
people at EMI were kind enough to cut-out.

Ockeghem: Requiem & Missa MiMi
Hilliard Ensemble
Angel Reflexe 49213

If you have a copy you'd like to part with, or if it is still available
in the UK, please let me know.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:17:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.230404.2217@tcsi.com> dmc@tcs.com writes:
>
>I can't STAND listening to the radio in the Bay Area.  I'm really
>frustrated that the menu is 95% music written by heretofore unknown (with
>good reason) baroque and classical composers, with a little
>Albinoni and Vivaldi thrown in for good measure.

Personally, I'd get tired of hearing nothing but Mozart, Brahms, and
Beethoven all day.  

>I want *real* radio. Something written after 1920 that isn't the
>Barber Adagio. That canned announcer has probably never said
>Messeian - or Riley or Glass or Schwantner, for that matter.

If you're going to attack something, get your facts right.  The afternoon
paper has a very small listing containing the name of 2 or 3 pieces that
will be played between 8 and 10 that evening.  The 14 pieces listed in the
papers I had waiting to be recycled included works by Bolcom, Bernstein,
and Gershwin.  If Atterberg and Rodrigo are modern, that's two more.  Not a
high percentage, but not zero.  I know I've heard Glass and Messien
(however it's spelled - nothing looks right) and lots of other modern
composers.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: Gramophone 1992 Awards
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:58:14 GMT

In article <hal.14.720975131@radio.wkar.msu.edu> hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal
Prentice) writes:
>
>Best Historic Non Vocal Recording -
>Elgar Edition Vol 1 - Elgar conducting (EMI mono CDS7 54560-2)
>
Can anyone post what is on this disc?  I have the recording of Elgar conducting
the violin and cello concertos, but that is part of their Great Recordings of
the Century series.  This is the first I have heard of the Elgar Edition.
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 13:23:00 EST

In article <Nov.5.20.39.08.1992.8759@blaze.rutgers.edu>
zhu@blaze.rutgers.edu (Yi Zhu) writes:

>  So here is the million dollar
>question: Knowing the year(assuming you know what that number means),
>does it help enhancing your enjoyment or understanding of the music
>in any way?

Perhaps not in every instance, and not always at the moment.  But I would
say that knowing something about a piece of music is worthwhile and over
time enahnces enjoyment and understanding.

>I think not, so I am not sure about the point of doing it.

Well, it's a lot better than some of the fluffheads who are DJ'ing these
days around the country.  In Boston, we have seen good stations go to Music
Lite, with announcements made after 2/3 of a movement of an unidentified
piece played by unidentified players: (requires the upbeat cheer associated
with airline safety talks to recite properly) "Well, that music was from a
String Quartet by Mozart."  Oh.  %^|

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse)
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:27:06 GMT

Mike Hurben writes:

[...]

>I have heard most all of the Solti, but there is a lot that I don't like...
>  The sound quality can be pretty bad, at times.  I think that it really takes
>it's toll during the forest murmurs - it does not sound very 'delicate,' as I
>think it should.  I also don't care too much for the love music, especially
>Siegmund's 'Wintersturme.'  To me it sounds forced, unromantic.  Where Solti
>makes up for this is in the more dramatic scenes, namely the entry into Valhalla
>and Act I of S.

[...]

A friend had the same problems with Solti's Ring. He sold his copy and
perchased Bo"hm's recording. He is very happy with it: it has everything
that is missing in Solti's performance, and much more. He once told me,
though, his favourite is Krauss (mono, on Rodolphe) and second is
Furtwa"ngler (Scala, bad mono, on Fonit Cetra (?)).

The dutch classical music magazine had last month an interview with Solti.
He said he now considers his Ring "a young person's Ring" and that he now
has a different view on much of the music. He would like to record it again
but thinks it very unlikely that he will be able to find a good enough cast.

Bart Gerritse