From: rpsingh@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: WITHER PATRIOTISM ?
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:41:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.123451.15698@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, sphanda@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (surinder.phanda) writes:
> In article <1992Oct8.223436.19533@news.clarkson.edu>, rajat@sunny1.che.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> Nothing can be more tormenting for me than the statement:
>> 
>> "... given the social conditions in India, I'll never go back... "
> 
> Would you?? The fact is, a lot of Indians do actually choose not to 
> go back.....
That choice itself is questionable, and raises doubts about their patriotism.
Indians choose to live here not because of the social conditions rather for
the luxury. Do you think one enjoys being treated as a second rate citizen,
called upon by derogatory names in the streets just because it's thier
country??
> 
>> 
>> A pathetic statement coming from a person, born and nurtured in
>> India... 
> 
> Why? surely to talk from experience is the best example.

No doubt it is. But it is the time and place which matters.
 
>> 
>> It is fine ( and healthy ) to question our social
>> values, criticize and deplore evils... but to slander and 
>> malign the country as inhospitable, is a terrible thing to do...
> 
> To some it does appear inhospitable - you have to accept that.

Accepting weaknesses and evils of one's society/country doesn't help
to rectify it. It would neither go away by quitting the country. We, who
have seen the world have a clearer perception of a cohesive society and
the burden of transforming our society/country ought to be our moral duty.
 
>> 
>> No self-respecting native can ever stab a country like that !
> 
> Why ever not?? Just because you are a native of a particular country
> does not mean hard hitting truthful facts about it cannot be raised....
> Take off the rose tinted glasses please!

Because it is immoral. If oyu wish to raise these so called truthful facts
go back to India. What good would you achieve by doing that in a foreign
country?? The only thing that you would do is to give everyone an indication
of how selfish, self-centered  and unpatriotic individuals we are. 
>> 
>> If one were to read between the lines of the utterings of such
>> believers, the message is "India and those who choose to live
>> there are damned... doomed to live in a cesspool of misery...! "
> 
> Well, are'nt they?? The MAJORITY (who do not have the comforts or haven
> of a Western country) do live in a "cesspool of misery". They don't
> have the luxury of making tough decisons about which private school
> to send their kids.... or whether to change jobs and move into 
> another (luxury) home....etc.. 

So it all boils down to luxury in each and every aspect of life! Well, I 
wonder if everyone who fought for the independence of our country had the
same ideals that you have, what would have happened to you?? 

No doubt we are a poor country with lots of problems but that doesn't give
anyone the right to criticize those who in their own ways are trying to make a
difference. 

>> Indeed, some people are brought up in an family environment that
>> preaches insensitivity to the populance, and that "this hell"
>> is an incidental foster country, expendable at first opportunity.
> 
> I doubt if any family has time.....they are too busy surviving.

And they are. Aren't they??
>> 
>> I love India, because I have lived there as an Indian..., and
>> I've an ancestary to be proud of... I like Indians a lot more
>> than anybody else, because we think alike, we feel alike,and we live
>> alike. 
> 
> I love India too, but Snap out it. India has changed a lot (much of it 
> for the worst) since the days of the "ancestary" you're talking about. 
> Of course there are similarities between Indians, but don't turn 
> us into clones!    

Well, seriously, do you mean it?? 
Nobody can turn you into clones, if you don't want to. Try building up
your own individuality. 
>> 
>> US is a foster country, made great by people who adopted it. The first
>> generation immigrants never abondoned their country, they revered it.
> 
> The U.S has always been considered a country of opportunity. It's where
> a lot immigrants dreams came true, and continue to come true....
> People did'nt abandon it because it did so much for them. Unfortunatley
> the same is not true of India. Just look at the lines of people at
> foreign embassies waiting to get out .....

It's true for the US but not for India?? You got your basic education there,
you got a fairly intelligent way of thinking, It made you realize about the
weaknesses that we have as a country and then ....you abandoned the country
never to return. How pathetic!!
 
>> 
>> On a personal side, I'll never take a woman who disvows her native
>> land as my wife. Can't be trusted in life...
> 
> So you want an obedient woman that agrees with everything you say
> and "knows her place" - typical!

Not what he says. One who is atleast loyal to her country and feels proud to
be an Indian. I remember reading somewhere about Gandhi, the writer says
something to this affect:
The trouble with most of us is that we associate our interests with our own
well being. Some with a bigger subset, their family.....and so on. 
Gandhiji associated himself with the biggest subset of all  ..HUMANITY. In that
sense, perhaps he was more evolved than any one of us.

Regards,
Ravi.

>> 
>> Rajat Kapoor 
> 
> Ms Surinder Phanda
>    AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd
>    Malmesbury.
-- 

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`It's foolish to be wise in the company of fools.' 
                                                     
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Ravi P. Singh                    *    E-mail: rpsingh@hydra.uwo.ca
Dept. of Physics                 *    Phone : (519)-679-2111 Ext.6556 [off]
University of Western Ontario    *            (519)-433-6291 [Res.]
London N6A 3K7, Ontario          *    Fax   : (519)-661-2033 
 C A N A D A                     *
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