HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bell@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Intentional Grounding?
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:17:16 GMT

     With all this talk about intentional grounding I was wondering if anyone
had access to the NFL rule book to give us the rule word for word.  I know alot
of it depends on the ref's judgement but I'd like to see how the rule is
spelled out for them.  Thanks!!!!

			Shane L. Bell
			bell@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jic@vexcel.com (jic account for NAVY)
Subject: Re: Kick of the Day (at least)
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:05:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.085003.18071@math.ucla.edu> rfedkiw@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.030515.6784@netcom.com>, mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimm
>ers) writes:
>>A moment ago, the Broncos' PK DeLuiso kicked off after a FG.  He
>>immediately raised his arms in triumph.  A moment later the ball
>>sailed through the uprights for what amounted to a 75-yard field
>>goal.
>>
>>I've been watching football for over 20 years now, and I've *never*
>>seen a kick like this.  Yes, it was in Mile High Stadium, and I
>>believe there's a bit of wind, but -- sheesh.
>
>Back in the days when the Bills were 2-14, I watched them beat 
>Pittsburgh in Buffalo. The winds were high.
>One of the teams had a kickoff through the uprights, but the 
>other had a more impressive kick fly through the back of the 
>endzone and land in the stands.......
>Just wind! And the Tee! Thats all.
>
>--
>Ron Fedkiw (rfedkiw@joshua.math.ucla.edu)
>
>A plan is made by someone who is sitting and thinking ...
>while others are doing.


Daluiso has been kicking them through the uprights all season long.
That's his job, to kick the ball through the back of the end-zone
this is why he was hired, and why the Broncos have two kickers
on their roster, Daluiso and Treadwell.  I have to agree with folks
that since it's on a tee, (and no rush, no holder, etc) that this
is somewhat unimpressive, the impressive part is that he does
it relatively consistently.  I believe that he's had only 1 kick not
make it to the end zone, and very few that were returned.
Reeves has told us that if there is a long field goal attempt at
the end of the half or game that Daluiso would be brought in to 
try it.  He also subbed for punter Mike Horan after he was injured
and Daluiso avereaged 48 yards punting!  The guy has a big league leg!

Tom.

GOOOOO Broncos!   Finally we stomp on an NFC opponent!  Finally an
offense!  (3 weeks running, no sacks!, and plenty of touchdowns!  
the Broncs are back!)




Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: merrill@stsci.edu (Clark Merrill)
Subject: Re: Monday Night...FINAL SCORE!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50    
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:23:00 GMT

In article <BxvGuz.J7I@acsu.buffalo.edu>, carrato@acsu.buffalo.edu (Michael Carrato) writes...
>yc25+@andrew.cmu.edu (Young-Soo Che) writes:
> 
>McKeller was about 2 yards from where the ball landed. If he would have
>CAUGHT that ball, would you still say it was intentional grounding?
> 
Yeah He only started out 3-4 yards away.  It was thrown backhand and never 
had any upward momentum.  McKeller was was also not read to catch it.  
Kelly should of taken the sack.   If he tries that again and it is not 
clear to the official  he is trying to throw it, it could be ruled a 
fumble.

I thought it was a pretty poorly called game!  I actually agree with 
Deirdorf!  Incredible.  That almost never happens.  

I'm not really bummed because I picked Buffalo in my pool.

Clark B. Merrill                        A Life Long Redskins Fan!
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
merrill@stsci.edu
From: Michael.P.Colburn@dartmouth.edu (Michael P. Colburn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: A Giant Disgrace
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:30:12 GMT
 <98941@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Well, at least we Giant fans had some excitement in the 1st
quarter...also, let's not overlook Dave Meggett's kick-off return for a
TD, the first in a l-o-o-o-ng time for the Gias...the 1st since Rocky
Thompson way back in the 70's somewhere...anyone out there got a
sharper memory (or a handy stat book) as to exactly when?

I agree with Satish...the Giants should have kept this one close, but
some bad play calling and some gawd-awful special teams play really put
the damper on any momentum the Giants had in the first quarter...oh,
and gee, I actually heard Ray say he personally, was taking the sole
blame for the shoddy play of the special teams.  Atta boy,
Handley...keep talkin' yerself out of a job!  And cripes...I know young
players need to learn by experience, by does Cory Miller even have a
clue how to play linebacker??  IMHO, the Giants have some serious
rebuilding to do and I say let's get on with it...the prospect of going
through a few tough years of reconstruction isn't exactly appealling,
but better than trying to field a team of has-been's and never-be's
that is coached by a couple of guys who'd be better of selling
insurance....

Mike Colburn                         =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dartmouth-Hitchcock                  "Pulu-see-ba-goomba" -- Gilligan 
Medical Center                       =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lebanon, New Hampshire  03756        :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Land of the Giants
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: blah@maas-neotek.arc.nasa.gov (TWF)
Subject: Re: BILLS WIN!!!!
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:23:57 GMT

In article <Bxw39L.917@acsu.buffalo.edu> v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Snoopy) writes:
>In article <1ebb3eINNsth@morrow.stanford.edu>, GC.JAB@forsythe.stanford.edu
>(Tony Bechtold) writes...
>>In article <BxuJJ8.Mqp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>,
>>wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Radio 90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall) writes:
>>>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFF!!!!!!
>>>
>>>Bills 26, Fish 20
>>>
>>>Just got done hearing a dolfan complain about the officiating... there were
>>>calls BOTH ways close enough that I wouldn't want to have to make the call!
>>>But, a minor reality check: IT'S OVER!! There is nothing you can do about
>>>it!!
>> 
>>There were bad calls both ways, but the worst had to be in the
>>closing minutes of the game when Kelly clearly intentionally
>>grounded the ball back on the Buffalo 2.  Considering that Buffalo
>>would have had loss of down, and 23 yards to go for a first down,
>>that one bad call might have very well cost Miami the game. Miami
>>would have had good field position with a few minutes to punch it
>>in.  Maybe they would have. Maybe they wouldn't have!
>
>	How about all the missed false-starts on Marino?  Most quarterbacks do
>that, and get away with it, but it's still against the rules.  It should be
>called when it's blatant, and it was.  For that matter, calling Thomas out-of-
>bounds inside the one was a questionable call.  The ref was right there, but
>did not have a good angle.  Also, the Bills were robbed of a touchdown when
>Pete Metzelaars dove for the ball in the endzone.  Without the poor officiating,
>the Dolphins would not have been that close.

Give me a break already with the Marino false-starts.  Quarterbacks
have been doing that for ages, and it is *rarely* called.  If it was
sooo distracting, then why was Smith the only one to jump offsides,
and why only 2 or 3 times, instead of every snap?  Smit was trying to
time the snap count, nothing more.  

And Metzelaars let the bottom of the ball come in contact with the
ground - the pass was incomplete.  Face it, it was a great game.
Nothing less, nothing more.


Mark
Go Dallas...

... and why isn't A&M #3?
From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: potential new team ratings
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:35:38 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <1992Nov14.192241.9226@netcom.com>, mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes...

>In article <1992Nov13.142122.4024@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, un032221@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
> 
>>> 	The system is actually VERY simple.  It's just one equation basically:
>>> 
>>> 	(Win Pct) X (Average Margin of Victory or Loss) X (Shed. Strength)
>>> 
>>> 	As to Margin of victory, I just took: (PF-PA)/# games
>>> 	For margin of loss it was inverted so as to avoid negative numbers.  So
>>> it looked like such: #games/(PA-PF)
>>> 	For Schedule Strength I simply used the average win pct of all
>>> opponents played thus far.  The Results were as follows:
>>> 
>You're keying in on the right issues, but the numbers need to be
>weighted a bit differently.  Rather than merely multiply the numbers 
>together, give each a weighting, then add them up.  You can then
>give the schedule difficulty the significance it deserves.  Take
>SF and Philly, for example:
> 
>>> 	2 |San Francisco 49ers | .778  | 13.22  |  .407   | 4.186
>>> 	3 |Philadelphia Eagles | .667  |  8.55  |  .605   | 3.450
> 
>The Niners get a 5.38 multiplier of margin * strength, compared
>to 5.17 for the Eagles.  But intuitively I'm more impressed with
>Philly's numbers (a margin of over eight against .600 opponents)
>than I am with SF's (bigger margin but against creampuffs).
> 
>Very good start, though...

My program does something similar to this but it takes a log of the 
margin of victory (MOV) so that a team doesn't get 40 times as much 
credit for a 40 point MOV as they do for a 1 point MOV.  Then I have 
a user configurable constant that allows you to control how much the 
MOV determines the ratings.

JGH
From: v077mdph@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Snoopy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Bills 26 Fins 20
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov17.181321.26812@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, blah@maas-neotek.arc.
nasa.gov (TWF) writes...
>In article <Adriene_Nazaretian.13.0@QM.cis.YALE.EDU> Adriene_Nazaretian@QM.cis.
>YALE.EDU (ALN - Go Giants!) writes:
>>In article <BxuM87.6sw@acsu.buffalo.edu> kist@acsu.buffalo.edu (james e kist)
>>writes:
>>>In article <BxuHJ7.4p8@acsu.buffalo.edu> carrato@acsu.buffalo.edu (Michael
>>>Carrato) writes:

>>>>Subject says it all. Great game. Shit refs. Bills back in control...

>>>That should be SHIT REFS. Never have I seen a worsely biased officiating
>>>job in my life. Well, the Bills proved that they can beat Miami even when
>>>the Refs are against them. 
>>>One more thing: this the a Professional football league, so shouldn't we
>>>have Professional refs?

>>I've always said that Instant Replay was a fix for bad 
>>officionating (<-spelling?) .  It is games like this that get owners and 
>>teams fired up.  If the Bills lost, they'd be SCREAMIN for the IR to 
>>return.    

	This will never happen, because Polian hates replay.

>I don't understand:  if you are saying that IR would have overruled
>either of the touchdown calls, you are wrong.  There was no convincing
>(read: beyond a reasonable doubt) camera angle for the Thomas
>touchdown run; the touchdown catch (was it McKellars or Metzalaars, I
>forget - no flames for spelling, please) also did not have a
>conclusive camera angle.  (In fact, I'm pretty sure that was the
>correct call, although I think that Thomas was in).  I think enough
>calls went both ways ...  I don't think that you ought to diminish the
>play of  the Bills defense by bringing up the officials.

	The only good angle in the stadium for Thomas' run was the one the
pylon got, and the pylon was smashed into by Thomas' foot!  I think it might
have been a touchdown, and wanted it to be, but I don't think there was any way
to be sure.  The closest ref had a bad angle:  He couldn't look down the side-
line to determine where Thomas went out.
	As for Metzelaars' "trap," I beg to differ.  On the reverse angle, it
was pretty clear.  Pete dove, and it was close, but his arms were under the
ball, not the ground.

>Mark
> 
>Go Dallas
>and A&M should be ranked #3.

Snoopy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Subject: Darrell's AFC/NFC Playoff Predictions!
Originator: delarocq@c00523-118rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:06:11 GMT






Team Rankings:

Bills        #1 Division Leader
Pittsburgh   #2 Division Leader
Denver       #3 Division Leader
Kansas City  #1 Wildcard
Miami        #2 Wildcard
Houston      #3 Wildcard


K.C.   ---
          |---- K.C. 
Miami  ---        |
                  |------Bills
Bills  -----------|       |
                          |-------Bills & Cowboys. Bills win 27-21.
Pitt   -----------|       |
		  |------Pitt
Denver ---        |
          |----Denver 
Houston---






49ers   #1 Division Leader
Cowboys #2 Division Leader
Vikings #3 Division Leader
N.O.    #1 Wildcard
Philly  #2 Wildcard
Skins   #3 Wildcard


Saints ---
          |----Saints 
Skins  ---        |
                  |------Saints 
49ers  -----------|       |
                          |-------Bills & Cowboys. Bills win 27-21.
Cowboys-----------|       |
		  |------Cowboys
Vikes  ---        |
          |----Vikings 
Eagles ---
-- 
delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu


      
---------------------------------------------------------------------------   
1988,1989,1990,1991 AFC East Division Champions
1991,1992 AFC Conference Champions

Hungry for some fish.. Monday Night Football, November 16, 1992..

If you are a Buffalo Bills fan, email me at delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu
so we can talk all about the games, insight, etc.
If you are a Packers fan, let me know. I am interested in any news
out of Green Bay...
A PROUD MEMBER OF THE BILLS COALITION TAKING THE BET II.
From: chf0@roger.gte.com (Curtis Fennell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: THE REAL MIDSEASON PRO BOWL SELECTIONS-------AFC
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:04:56 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories

In article <1992Nov13.183432.3664@ncsu.edu> jimarcey@eos.ncsu.edu (JOEL IAN MARCEY) writes:
>
>1992 Midseason Pro Bowl - AFC

You forgot:

TIGHT ENDS:

1. Keith Jackson (Dolphins) --- Averaging one TD per game.
2. Eric Green (Steelers) --- But drug problems???

>OFFENSIVE LINE
>should use a team becasue the know how to work well together..
>
>1. Miami Dolphins -----Marino rarely gets sacked

I don't think so.  The 'Phins are my team, but except for the Colts,
they haven't really been opening the running holes.

>2. Pittsburgh Steelers -----If Barry Foster is leading rusher......

I think maybe the Steelers are the best.

>LINEBACKERS
>1. Cornelius Bennet (Bills) ---- Great speed...good against the run
>2. Derrick Thomas (Chiefs) ----- 10 1/2 sacks....enough said
>3. Junior Seau (Browns) -----comes from anywhere on field to get you

You forgot:

1. John Offerdahl (Dolphins) -----  Marv Levy said that he hurt the
Bills more than any other Dolphin defensive player
2. Bryan Cox (Dolphins) -----  10 sacks, 1 int.... enough said.

>b. place kicker 
>   Nick Lowery (Chiefs) ----superbly accurate

Well, maybe, but I also like
a. Pete Stoyanovich (Dolphins) ---- Hasn't missed a field goal inside
the 50 all year and has the most points of any kicker.

>Buffalo Bills #1

Curt
--
Curt "I always pick the Dolphins - even against Buffalo!"  Fennell
			DOLFAN in New England.             
'72 Dolphins - The perfect team in the perfect season - 17-0
From: elm@cs.berkeley.edu (ethan miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: How about that NFC East
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:19:08
Organization: Berkeley--Shaken, not Stirred
Reply-To: elm@cs.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: terrorism.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: trottibw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu's message of 16 Nov 1992 04:30:49 GMT

In article <1e785pINNfn3@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> trottibw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu(Barry Trottier) writes:
=>Every single NFC East team lost today!
=>
=>Looks like the "best division" had a pretty bad day.
=>
=>But, at least they lost against good teams! :) (Well, the Elways
=>(Broncos) are a good team)

And the Chiefs aren't so bad, either.  The Chiefs were actually
favored in their game against the Skins.

ethan
--
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
ethan miller--cs grad student   | "Anybody not wearing 2000000 sunblock's
elm@cs.berkeley.edu             |  gonna have a REALLY bad day.  GET IT?"
#include <std/disclaimer.h>     |  -- Sarah Connor, _Terminator 2_
From: carrato@acsu.buffalo.edu (Michael Carrato)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Bills resurgence
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:38:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair) writes:

>Hi,

>I'm not  big follower of the Bills but I have noticed that after their loss
>to Miami earlier this year, they looked like they were on the skids.  The
>Miami loss and the Raider loss could probably be explained by the special
>defenses these teams used to stop Buffalo's offense but even when they played
>the Jets they looked pretty mediocre.   Then, out of nowhere, against Pitt
>they come back loaded with octane.  Ditto for their performance on the Monday
>night game.  Was there a reason for their resurgance??  Did the offense change
>any schemes?  Or was it all just a slump?

Two things changed: (1) they quickened the pace on offense. Kelly mentioned
after the Steelers game that for a while he was trying to call the
perfect play every play, and that resulted in slowing the pace of the
no huddle. Now he's going more on gut feeling and flow and keeping
the pace up. 

(2) they seemed to have found a way to neutralize the 2 lineman set that
has plagued them the last few years (Giants, Raiders, Dolphins) by
using more power sets and also by stressing the run. Rather than 
giving up on the run early when it was ineffective, they kept
plugging away and pounding the linebackers who were forced to
plug holes in the line. I think the strategy worked... the Bills
ground game steadily improved as the game progressed.

Of course, it always helps when Offerdahl isn't in there.


Mike C.
From: v066pwk9@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE YAEGER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: MNF announcers still suck, yupper
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:22:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov17.132117.2509@lgc.com>, mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak) writes...
>I only watched a few plays of the game between the Dolphins and Bills,
>and on nearly every one of them the MNF guys were saying that Miami was
>doing something illegal.  Once Dierdork wanted a late hit out of bounds
>(seemed like an okay hit to me), another time Marino was drawing the
>Bills offsides by moving his upper body (replay did NOT clearly show this
>at all), and on yet another they wanted a pick on some wide receiver
>(replay showed this was possible).  Then when the Bills had the ball
>they did nothing but gush about how great they were.

What? Did you listen to the game.  Gifford is a complete asshole.
He said that he thought that Miami was going to win this game.
Never mind the fact that they have lost 3 of last 4 games, with
only win against the dolts.

This trio of announcers are the worst, next to Bob (dumpy) Trumpy,
for a Bills fan to listen to.  You practically have to twist these
announcers arms for tham to say anything good about the Bills.
These announcers must follow the philosophy that we will say all
good things about which ever team has the larger market, no matter
were the game is being played.  Not until the Bills were winning
did I hear Dumbdorf say anything good about the Bills. He said
something to the effect of the Bills having so many weapons.  

Bruce, a Bills fan.
From: 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: 49ers beat Buffalo in SuperBowl
Date: 21 Nov 1992 06:19:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: eb5ts4.ebay.sun.com

Joe Montana will finally come IR and lead the 49ers win over the Bills,
Thurman Thomas and Ricky Watters will have a good game. But the Great arm of
Joe will come off the bench to win his 5th superbowl and retire.
From: wizkid@wpi.WPI.EDU (Mike Fyrberg)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: HUH?!?!?!
Date: 16 Nov 1992 03:21:04 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

DID I READ THE SCORES WRONG OR DID THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS......WIN?


If so, um.... Colts.........uh.....GET A NEW TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk about EMBARASSMENT!!!!!!!

	
-- 
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
*#          wizkid@wpi.wpi.edu		|  "I'm not crazy, I'm Mike."- MF    #*
#*             Mike Fyrberg		|  "Only the insane take themselves  *#
*#					|     quite seriously"- MB	     #*
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (The Purple Bleeder )
Subject: A good QB for the Vikes.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:34:31 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


What about the 9ers trading Montana to the Vikes.....
Please please do it..:-):-).....

We *desperately* need a QB......

Atleast, Green should build around his young defence
and groom an young and good QB for the future...

As for *Green*...the Vikes should keep this man for a
long time for the good of the organization. I am
*positive* that this man can lead the Vikes to
greater glory....But he needs a QB who can *execute*
the plays he calls from the side lines.

S.H
From: trottibw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu(Barry Trottier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: How about that NFC East
Date: 16 Nov 1992 04:30:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: trottibw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: g310c8.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

Every single NFC East team lost today!

Looks like the "best division" had a pretty bad day.

But, at least they lost against good teams! :)  (Well, the Elways (Broncos) are  
a good team)

----------------
Go Niners!
Go Elway!
Barry Trottier
e-mail:  trottibw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu