HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:16:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.155514.1576@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>An interesting observation, in that Japan has a good number of immigrants
>from Korea, China, not to mention Thailand, the S Pacific Islands.

No objection.

>The only
>"Real" Japanese are similar to the only "real" Americans: the natives, which
>in Japan's case means Ainu.

Objection here.
The Japanese archipelago has been inhabited at least as late as 10,000
years ago (and actually far more earlier).  This is called the (Early)
Joumon Era.  There is no reason to believe that the Joumon people
were equivalent to Ainu, nor (being the same thing), that the Ainu people
had inhabited down south in mid Honshuu or further still.

There seems to have been a massive immigration ca. 4-3c BC,
which is indicated by the change of culture (called Yayoi Era).
This doesn't seem to mean that the Joumon people were wiped out,
and there seems to be a lot of inter-marriage between them.
Later, there also seems to have been a massive immigration ca.
5-early 7c AD, when there was close contact between Japan and
Korea/China.
Since then, the Japanese "race" has remained fairly intact.

The analogy relating to "native Americans" doesn't quite fit.

Actually, all this about the origin and transition of the Japanese
inhabitants is quite obscure.
There has been studies based on genetical analysis that indicate
the Japanese race is a mixture of Southern races (SE Asia, Polynesia?)
as well as Northern ones (Mongolia, etc.); but no definite conclusion
can be drawn (as yet).
Being that the case for "mainland" Japanese, the case of the Ainu
people is further less known.


>What is REALLY interesting is that I've seen a 
>wider variety of complexions, etc, in Japan than I did in Korea or China.

I can't speak of Korea or China, but agree with the first half
and this is actually quite well acknowledged.

>The Japanese cannot seemingly do that [= tell apart Japanese/Korean etc.]
>in their own country. Everybody who 
>looks even silghtly Asian is "Japanese" to them.

Granted the above and since one would expect to encounter a Japanese
far more often "in their own country", this is natural though a bit trivial.
One might expect better "scores" eg., in the US.

-Yuzuru Hiraga
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,alt.sex,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs
From: wrb@cbnews.cb.att.com (wallace.r.blackburn)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:34:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.085537.11269@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>
>I've talked to several Japanese about the inequitable trade situation,
>and I have come to one conclusion:  tit-for-tat retaliation.
>

This sounds like what Perot said many times.  His words were something like
"We should tell them that if the deal you gave us was so good, fine.
We'll give you the same deal".   Hmmm.

Of course, he was (gasp!) different.  We could never elect someone like
that.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:33:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234122.12606@bluemoon.use.com> grant@bluemoon.use.com (Grant DeLorean) writes:
>osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>
>>	Then what would it be, an Italian sausage?  Either you recognize the 
>>	device, or you do not.  If it looks like a gun, one should assume that
>>	it is a gun until you are satisfied to the contrary.  Guns are 
>>	potentially dangerous, and anyone with any sense in their head does
>>	not play it cavalier with anything that may be dangerous, I don't care
>>	*where* it is you come from.
>
> He does have a minor point, in Japan unless it is in the hands of
>government folks or Yakuza it is a non-functional replica. He may
>have been used to a neighbor who played with a replica back home
>so thought nothing of it... This could be another way in which
>strict gun control caused a death...

	I agree that perhaps he does, however if this is indeed true of
	Japanese culture, then I must respectfully submit that they ought
	to have their collective head examined, for such social fashion
	is blind stupidity, plain and simple, irrespective of "context".

	Do people in Japan go running around pointing toy guns at each
	other saying "stick `em up, HA HA HA..."?  I'd find that hard to
	believe that any appreciable proportion of the population could
	be so spectacularly stupid.

	BTW, I got the Japanese take on what happened from a Japanese friend.
	Apparently Peairs (or however the hell you spell it) was in his
	doorway telling Hattori "FREEZE!".  Seems the Japanese have a problem
	differentiating certain sounds (like that of 'l') from others and
	Hattori was not so English literate, yet.  Anyhow, some Japanese seem
	to believe that Hattori confused "freeze" with "please".  For a
	Japanese "please" is a way of telling a person to help yourself, to
	make yourself at home.  If this is indeed what happened, then to a
	significant degree, Hattori was the victim of a really awful brand
	of phonic misapprehension.  The only thing that I still find a bit
	mystifying about all this was how could he have mistaken the body
	language of a person that must have been in a highly agitated state?
	Unless Peairs was actually having a bit of fun at "smoking a slope",
	which I strongly doubt, how could such a high level of nerves and
	yelling etc. have gone by either unnoticed or misinterpreted?  I'll
	grant you that cultural difference can have an astounding affect on
	events between persons in the sense of misapprehension, but this is
	simply beyond belief for me.  After all, we are all human and all
	have cvertain commonalities that should transcend all cultural
	boundaries.  Perhaps I am wrong.

	-Andy V.
	
Lines: 46
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:13:06 MST
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Distribution: usa
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
From: luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke)

In article <Dec16.220043.71613@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>In article <1gnu5qINN816@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>>In article <Dec16.043203.38387@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ntetsuya@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nishimura) writes:
>>> 	Only the situation where "no guns exist among civilian except in the 
>>> 	hands of certified people or of bad guys" allows us to carry the plastic
>>>	and zinc weapon.
>>
>>I sincerely don't understand this.  When a police officer sees a person with a
>>weapon on the street, how does he know whether the gun is a toy or the person
>>is a criminal?  And what does s/he then do about it?

>	Even a criminal is a Yakuza member or very bad guy, they seem to think
>	that a possibility of the suspect carrying a gun is very low or none.
>	A few months ago in Japan, there was a guy who escaped from a police 
>	station and finally re-arrested after several hours of car chase which
>	ended when the guy crashed into a telephone pole.  The first thing the
>	officers at the scene did was not drawing their weapon but opening the
>	door of the driver's side and drag the guy out of the truck.  The guy
>	was a Yakuza member and reported to posses a Soviet-made Tokarev pistol
>	with him... (or he didn't?  I forgot it.  Anybody?)

And before that, there was the case of the (escaped felon?  suspected felon?
I don't remember which). The police got a lead on where he was and went to
arrest him (23 officers, if I remember right).  He had a gun (a Tokarev) and
killed one officer and wounded one or two others, then got away.  He was
recaputured the next day after a _massive_ manhunt.  The point of this story
is that out of the 23 officers sent to get the guy in the first place,
*not one* of them was even carrying a gun.  They figured the guy didn't have
one, so they didn't need one, either.

The attitude about guns is so vastly different between the US and Japan that
it is certainly conceivable that Yoshi never suspected a real weapon.

>	P.S.	After the crash of the Soviet Union, some Soviet Tokarev pistols		seem to have been smuggled, which lower the price of black 
>		market (yes, we do have one :-<) handguns to 400K yen a piece,
>		which is thought be *VERY* cheap.
>		(400K yen = US$ 3400  !!!!)

Which is a _huge_ sum of money to an out-of-work Soviet soldier.  Something
like 90+% of the guns confiscated by the police in Japan in the last year
or so have been Tokarevs.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  David Luke                      "There's nothing worse than a brilliant     |
|  luke@wombat.ee.byu.edu           image of a fuzzy concept."                 |
|                                                               -- Ansel Adams |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: k4lee@student.business.uwo.ca (Kesson Lee)
Subject: Japanese Summer School in Japan
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:04:41 GMT

I'm very interested in learning the Japanese Language in Japan during the 
summer of 1993.  Could anybody give me some information on the school 
which will accept summer student? Please mail the information to me.  
Thanks a lot!

k4lee@student.business.uwo.ca (Kesson Lee)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: lombard@tss.com (Catherine Lombard)
Subject: Japanese Technical Writers
Keywords: computer
Reply-To: lombard@tss.com (Catherine Lombard)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:27:16 GMT

I am looking for two pieces of information that are
related.  

o The names of companies in Tokyo that contract out
  technical writers for Japanese computer manuals.  That
  is, Japanese native speakers who are technical writers.

o Any documentation that discusses writing technical manuals
  for a Japanese audience.

Thanks for your help. Please respond to my e-mail address.

Catherine Lombard
lombard.tss.com
From: tony2@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (gozdz,antoni s)
Subject: Re: Graft/Miyazawa
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution:  world
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:44:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.192337.11773@polaris.utu.fi> Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi> writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.095901.1959@lclark.edu> David Degraw,
>degraw@sun.lclark.edu writes:
>>	"Are Japanese politicians inherently corrupt?"
>>	"Is there such a thing as an incorruptible Japanese politician?"
>>	"Why does Japanese politics corrupt politicians?"
>>	"Does Japanese lobbying corrupt American politicians?"
>>	"Do the Japanese think Americans are easily corruptible?"
>
>Word corruption belongs to the American market-oriented frame of
>reference, where all the contacts should reflect transactional
>efficiency of monetary values.
>
>In systems where non-monetary values mean more the contacts are
>based more on relations instead of separate transactions. I would
>say that in that context there is no corruption, but only behaviour
>which helps to build relations needed.
>
>-olli-

This is obviously a new theory of "relative honesty".
Or rather the effect of southern winds from your neighbor 
where corruption has been a way of life for centuries?
Your interpretation of such phenomena in Europe, Asia, Africa... 
would be most interesting/entertaining.

Tony
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: dwwillia@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Williams)
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:40:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.050222.10684@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> mike@clubmezz.Berkeley.EDU (Michael T. Itamura) writes:
>In article <BzC2v7.24D@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> dwwillia@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Williams) writes:
>>I'll be honest.  I had forgotten that TSU was a predominantly black, poor,
>>urban school when I read about the incident.  I just had a vision of 120 
>>college kids rampaging in Akihabara: I didn't consider their race.  Somehow I
>>feel mollified in that Japanese people will condemn blacks specifically, and
>>not Americans generally, for their behavior.
>
>	So you are mollified that the Japanese would condemn
>blacks specifically and not Americans for their behavior.  Personally
>I am hoping that the Japanese will not generalize the behavior of
>these ugly Americans to any Americans - be they white/black or
>whatever.
>
>						A couple of Japanese that I
>>talked to said that this would be the case.
>
>	Wonderful...  :-(
>
>				Mike Itamura
>				mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu

I admit that it is not a wonderful sentiment.  Those criminals should have
been specifically punished for their crime, and no generalizations
should be made.  

As it stands, they got away with it.  Their Japanese insurer paid for their
crime.  This creates a bad reputation for blacks in Japan.  It increases
the general xenophobia.  I am mollified, still angry, but less so, because
the damage is contained to a degree.  If I was a black American I would
be even angrier.

So what has happened to these criminals?  I hope they are at least kicked out
of school.  Then they could drop the pretensions and get on with their 
criminal careers.

David Williams                   Jisei to wa               Death poems 
dwwillia@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  sunawachi mayoi           are mere delusion--
death poem by Toko, died 1795    tada shinan.              death is death.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.asian.america,soc.culture.usa,misc.education
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 08:52:04 GMT

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

>Time and time again it
>has been shown that education does not equate with success in buisiness,
>for one instance, Bill Gates, dropped out of College after 1 semester and
>founded Microsoft.  He is, by all definitions successful, worth $1billion
>by 30, yet quit school.  The superficial analysis would pin him as lazy
>(how can he quit school?  How lazy!), but he built one of the most powerful
>Software companies in the world!

>You are totally incorrect in stating that American students are lazy, they
>aren't at all.  The education system, however, does have problems, for
>one, teachers are low-paid.

Brent:  I'm sorry but you're off base on this one.  The students are lazy
and unmotivated and relatively speaking rather stupid.  Their parents are
lazy and unmotivated and equally stupid along with the teachers.

I don't think anyone was trying to equate success and school education
and Bill Gate's is not the example of laziness you try and make it but
rather the opposite.  The lazy people are the ones who after 12 years
or more still can't read and write in their native language, not the
one's who can't sit around and start businesses instead.

Teachers BTW, are paid exactly what they are worth, not a penny less,
not a penny more.  There is not "teacher pay" formula but the one we
all use, supply and demand.  If there was a demand for better teachers
they would be hired.  Don't confuse "desire" and demand.  A demand means
you're willing to trade something of value, a desire is something that
a genie might grant you but it doesn't require trading anything of value.

Look what Americans argue about, whether unmarried sex is okay, can a
person see naked titties on TV, if you let a kid drink a beer they
become drug addicts.  Collectively America is an overweight, 220 year old
child who accepts the accolades and places the blame.  Individually it
has some great people in it but they are stymied by the blabbering
kid who wants all the attention.

tom

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: yuji@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Yuji Nagaishi )
Subject: thanks [Re: some questions]
Organization: KIT Iizuka, AI Dept, JAPAN.
Distribution: soc
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:15:11 GMT


 Hi, there,

 I got a lot of replies. Thank you very much.

--
Yuji Nagaishi 
yuji@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp
KYUSHU INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
From: dcroz@twics.co.jp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Not a Myth at All
Date: 11 Dec 92 09:30:30 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

 
martin@kawa.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp writes:
 
=}I've only ever been harassed by drunks at stations and yet to suffer any
=}REAL racism. How long will it take?
 
     I don't think that's the right question.  One should rather ask how long
it will take a given individual to become unable to ignore or deny it.
 
     I've seen people who have been here for thirty years, and during all that
time hardly a word of Japanese and nary a single kanji has penetrated their
skulls.  You have to wonder what else they've missed.
 
     And I've seen people arrive here with a good basic knowledge of Japanese
and a strong infatuation with the country, and in the space of a couple of
years discover which end is up and which is not.
 
     Which is not to say that people who don't learn Japanese *can't* come to
understand the country, but rather that it is possible to be here forever and
not learn anything.
 
     And then, aside from the oblivious types, you'll see the ones who really
should know better.  Sometimes these people look for all the world like the
spouse of an alcoholic covering up for him.  Ever seen that?  They call in sick
for him, make excuses, lie, explain things away, whatever it takes.  Enabling
behavior.  Sometimes they get sick of it and quit, finally admit to themselves
that the guy's an alcoholic and their lying isn't helping anybody; and
sometimes they just keep covering up and explaining away to the bitter end.
 
     So I guess it depends on you, how quick you are to see and face unpleasant
facts.
From: kentaro@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re:baruku
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:49:30 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Dear Rikiya Asano,

do you mean Buraku instead of Baruku?






			Just Checking..................










                                just checking.....................
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu)
Subject: Japanese attitude toward divorce law
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:23:23 GMT


In the last few weeks, I watched a Japanese TV drama and one
thing puzzled me.  In the story, a married couple separated 
because the man wanted a divorce (so he could concentrate on 
his study) but the woman didn't.  At the end of the episode, 
the couple looked like in good terms and I was expecting the 
next show would be on how they got back together.  However, 
in the next one , the woman acted like she was divorced because
when she gave birth of a girl by her husband she gave the 
baby girl her own family name and after she died her friend
raised the baby.

What I really want to know is whether Japanese divorce laws 
very much reflect the tradition and custom so that most people 
follow them.  Or, the law is so difficult that it says one 
thing and people does another.  How does Japanese react to 
the divorce law?  In the show the couple seemed just ignored it.  

When a Japanese couple want to divorce, can they automatically
get it by their own mutual agreement without filing some paper?  
Seems unlikely in today's world.  What will happen to the baby 
in the show if proper law is executed properly?  

I understand that TV drama very often gives a distorted image.
I am just curious about this aspect of Japanese culture.

Eric
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: Cheju Island!
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:33:49 GMT

In article <sf=5mG600iUyI0eJhf@andrew.cmu.edu> ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
>Friends,
>
>         While completing the above research, I came across some
>discriptions and pictures of Cheju Island and the people there.
.....

  Sounds like a nice place to visit. Would you be kind enough to tell me
how to get there? What is "Cheju" in Kanji?

  Thanks.

--Michiaki
From: k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:26:37 GMT
Organization: University of Western Ontario

maierj@edmund.cs.andrews.edu (Joey Maier) writes:

> 	I saw the big argument about the racsism  of the Japanese
> cultuer towards Americans who have been in Japan for thirty years and not
> learned Japanese. It is a fact from history that Japan has been isolated
> as a island and they did not have a chance to or did not open their
> country till recently, therefor Japan might have become a major econamic
> power, but japanese people have not changed as quick. I think its fact
> that Japaenes are more closed minded from european people, However we know
> this and we are trying to change this.
> 
> 	If Americans want less racism, remember: In Rome, act like Romans.
> If you do this they act nicer with you.  Same with us, if  you act
> comfortable with japanese then once they have become good friend, they
> will have stronger relationship then european people.
> 
> Yoshia Shimizu   I am using my friend computer.
> 
> 

Racism is a strong word to use.  More often than not, it is 
unfriendliness becuase people like to avoid those who are obviously 
different.  This can seem like hostility if you're in the minority.
Try to speak their language.  It's interesting to observe Americans in 
France.  The French usually ignore the Americans and pretend they can't 
speak English until the Americans make an effort to converse in French, 
at which point lots of help is forthcoming either in French or in 
English.  I see lots of people resisting the local culture and refusing 
to learn the language or the customs.  Why is it that the Japanese always 
stick together when they're abroad.  Why are ex-patriots often seen 
together.  I'm not saying that it's bad to spend time with people from 
your culture, just that it's always made more sense for me to get to know 
lots of cultures and have some empathy.  Remember, when in Rome, do as 
the good Romans do.

k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:12368 soc.culture.usa:9203 misc.education:5275