From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Chaney's sig
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:52:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.181406.7829@wdl.loral.com> bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com writes:
#In article <1992Sep10.004317.17482@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
## Okay, Susan Garvin, I'll challenge you directly and show you once and
## for all how 100% WRONG you are. 
## 
## Of course it's always been well known that I could beat you in a
## debate hands-down, but seeing as that you want to press it, I'll show
## the newbies again.  
#
#Well, I wasn't invited into this flame fest -- but that rarely stops
#me...

Damn.  Your invitation must have gotten lost in the mail.

Chaney's fantasies about winning debates are amusing.  I guess
"disappearing from the net for extended periods of time" and
"winning" are equivalent in his strange world.

## ###       "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
## ###  that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
## ###  we want to be precise)..."
## ###    -- Gloria Feldt,
## ###       chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona
## 
## ###   "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
## ###     -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu#
## 
## Okay, Susan Garvin: Point out the anti-semitism in my .sig. 
#
#Not that I'm trying to put words in Susan's mouth or anything, but
#here are my answers to your silly quiz:

You did an admirable job.  Feel free to speak for me in the future.

## 1) Did Gloria Feldt or did she not base her LOGIC on a religious
## perspective? 
#
#The quote suggests she did.

Of course, since the source of the quote was Doug Holtsinger,
it was both taken out of context and abbreviated without
any indication that this was done.

## 2) Is there or is there not religious freedom in the First
#Amendment?
#
#Without quibbling about your ability to form a coherent question, I
#will assume I understand what you're asking and say -- yes.

I'll let Dean debate the finer points here.

## 3) Does the 1st Am or does it not prohibit laws based on religion? 
#
#It does not.  It prohibits the establishment of religion by the State.
#How this has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court -- the
#official authority on such matters -- in recent decades is too complex
#to compress into a simple yes or no answer to your question, but I'll
#give you the answer you're fishing for anyway: yes.

Again, I'll defer to you and Dean.

## 4) Yes or no: Is it or is it not unconstitutional to base legal action
## on religious principles?
#
#Absolutely not.

This would contradict the aim of the first ammendment.

## 5) Yes or no: Does Gloria Feldt or does she not base her legal action
## on her religious principles?
#
#I have no information on that.  Do you?  You haven't shown it yet.

He has not.  In fact, neither DOD nor Chaney/Hall have any proof
that all that Ms. Feldt has any "legal action" pending.

## Now, don't delete too much: Quiz: What did Gloria Feldt say her logic
## is based on? 
#
#The quote suggests that Ms. Feldt based her logic on a religious
#perspective.

See comments on the quote above.

## Quiz: How would you respond to: 
## "My logic is based on... a religious perspective that life begins at
## conception." - Catholic priest. 
#
#``I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement.''
#
#In fact,  I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement,
#for the exactly the same reasons I see nothing extreme or
#reprehensible about Ms. Feldt's statement.

This is the point that neither Chaney/Hall nor Holtsinger are
capable of understanding.  

Neither of them attack the religious beliefs of Christians, or
claim that Christians should not be allowed to believe as they
see fit.  (They will, occasionally, pay lip service to the
notion that abortion is not a religious belief, but they do
not quote Christian anti-abortion spokespeople in their .sigs
and demand that Suzanne Forgach publicly denounce her religion.)
It is their zeal in attacking only Jewish people that convinces
me that they are anti-Semitic.

#There -- you may now add me to the list.

DOD's fondest for lists seems to have disappeared.  I guess he had
less support than he anticipated on this issue.

Susan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.bizarre,alt.flame