From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: Pakistan is Lilbit different
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:53:15 EST


 RR> faraz rabbani (faraz.rabbani@canrem.com) wrote originally:
 RR> : Exactly, but the PRESENT CRISIS at Ayodhya was started by Hindus,
 RR> : not Muslims (who liked where the Mosque *was*)...

 To which rajesh@ivy (Rajesh Raman) replied:

 RR> The present crisis when viewed in isolation was created by the
 RR> Hindus. But you cannot view it in isolation. It was because of a
 RR> feeling of being persecuted by Muslims for the last 1000 years.

I am not laying any BLAME on them.  But you cannot draw your justice
injustly now by committing illegal acts. 

 :  RR> One of the reasons for the destruction of the mosque was the view
 :  RR> amongst Hindus that it was time that they acted. There has been a
 :  RR> history of brutal oppression of Hindus under many Muslim regimes in
 :  RR> the past 1000 years and that cannot just be ignored. It's sad that
 :  RR> some guys on the net deny that this ever happened . This is akin to
 :  RR> what the neo-nazis in Germany and the KKK are doing. They deny that
 :  RR> Hitler ever exterminated Jews.

 [to which I originally replied:]
 RR> : But to my knowledge, the Jews do not go en masse to Germany
 RR> : destroying buildings, etc...  The past's justice CANNOT be imparted
 RR> : now...  Like this, I can say that my cave-living descendants roamed
 RR> : all over the world; therefore I OWN the world...  does not work that
 RR> : way, bud...

 RR> I'm sorry I couldn't get the connection between Jews going to
 RR> Germany and what I said. You're right that we cannot keep dwelling on
 RR> what happened in the past. What has to be done is to acknowledge each
 RR> others' mistakes frankly and then go on with life with nothing on
 RR> our hearts.

You mentioned neo-nazis.  So I say that DO Jews go en masse to
Germany and "take" justice from the German people for what was done
to Jews during the Holocaust?  Similarly, tearing down a mosque 450
years later makes no sense.  The Spaniards don't tear down the
Moors' mosques as a response to some alleged Moor atrocities...

 :  RR> Both the destruction of the mosque in India and the destruction of
 :  RR> the temples in other countries are equally reprehensible. We cannot
 :  RR> ignore the fact that both happened and not just one of them.
 RR> :
 RR> : But one ignited the other...  One was the issue, and the other was
 RR> : the result of the issue.  Both sad though, VERY SAD and
 RR> : reprehensible, I agree fully.  But the bigger outrage is what
 RR> : triggered the death of 1200 plus people...

 RR> Correct. Faraz I know that you cannot justify the death of even
 RR> one person by saying that it had to be done so it was done. But how
 RR> do you make Muslims acknowledge that what their kings did some years
 RR> ago wasn't correct and you shouldn't glorify those people and be
 RR> blind to what happened? Because if that doesn't happen the same
 RR> tensions are going to remain. That is the crux of the problem. But
 RR> doing what was done (destruction of the mosque & the killing) is no
 RR> solution. 

Well...  My *personal* view is that I DO NOT consider "majestic"
rulers to be all that "great".  Sure, they (Romans, Greeks,
Egyptians, Moghuls, Brits, Nazi Germany,...) built huge monuments
and lived in luxury.  But to me a very important measure of
greatness of rulers is how the masses lived.  The Moghuls *did* a
lot for the subcontinent, though they *did* commit many wrongs.

 RR> And you forgot to reply to my poser on how to decide when a demand
 RR> for secession was legit and when it wasn't.

To that I have no reply.  Legitimacy depends on point of view.
Surely, the now-110 million Pakistanis and 120 million BenglaDeshis
prefer independance to being part of "India".  For most Muslims, the
thought of living under a non-Muslim majority is not a good
prospect; as a situation of Muslim majority/dominance is not a good
prospect for Hindus.

I, for one, hope that (sometime in the future) the subcontinent may
one day be able to build stronger economic ties.  With these is
bound to come the realisation that we are very similar and CAN
coexist. 

Faraz Rabbani

... Sure I'm weird, but I'm saving up to be eccentric.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian