From: steven@jaynes.uswest.com ( Steve Novak)
Subject: re: Father Notification Reconsidered
Originator: steven@jaynes
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:59:29 GMT

> = Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>> = (Janice Kendall) writes...

>>  I don't think the man has a right to know if the woman feels the best
>>  action for her situation is to abort.

>Well, as my good friend, Locutus of Borg :-), might say : "Feelings are
>Irrelevant".  

Your "good friend" *has* said:

"Susan Garvin you stupid ignoramous sphincter vixen!"
"You are a raving hypocrite, asshole.  This is absolute proof of what a
hypocritical, non-intellegent, sphincter-head bitch you really are."
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^ 
(heh heh - what a maroon.  Note l'il Chaney's anal fixation.)

Now Will, isn't your good friend a sweetie?

>Indeed, if someone were to say "The man has the right to have
>his child," you might say "Irrelevant!  It involves her body".  And in this
>case, I, err Locutus :-) would that the woman does *not* have the right to
>"decide" to deny the father the right to know the full truth of what he is
>about to face.

Sure she does.  It's her body.  All the *potential* father donated was
a pleasurable squirt.  It doesn't even make SENSE to suggest this when
we're talking about a situation where the two aren't even spouses (in
fact, it doesn't make any sense in any case).  

[re: possible abuse notifying the man BEFORE an abortion...]
>BUT, I do not believe that this rare possibility totally abrogates his right
>to *know*.  Thus, I would say that notification should be VERY soon 
>afterwards,...

Abusive males are hardly "rare"; and anyone can see that such a situation
would likely INCREASE the possibility of abuse.  

>...although I think that the woman should at least have the decency, respect,
>and trust to tell him beforehand!  

Gee, Will, maybe there IS no "respect" or "trust" felt by the woman.
THEN what would you do?

>(Note my words carefully : I am stating 
>that I believe that it is advisable to tell beforehand, but that I would 
>*require* it to be told afterwards).

Why?  What except possible disappointment, hurt and abuse could
possibly result from such a repressive law?  Why do you feel the need
to so totally control a woman who doesn't agree with you, rather than
either respecting her bodily autonomy or JUST FINDING A DIFFERENT WOMAN TO
HAVE KIDS WITH?

>And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say that in my own
>situation, if the woman had *not* been so respecting as to tell me before,
>but in fact had not only told me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!)
>or more, I probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
>stood.

Whoa.  Get some help, Will.  This is *not* normal behavior.

You've just proven the idiocy of _any_ woman notifying a Neanderthal
like yourself at ANY time, before or after an abortion.

>You can call it "male violence against women,"...

Since that's what it is, what else _could_ you call it?

>...but how would *you* feel if
>someone deliberately kept something from *you* for such a long time?  

I'd feel it was time to leave, if the secret she kept made me doubt her
committment to me.  Violence would never enter into it.  I don't 
consider the women in my life to be my property.  People like you and
John Stevens apparently feel differently.

>(like,
>for instance, husband had an affair, etc?).  You *might* even be angry enough
>to be driven to violence as well, especially if the delay had been long, so
>before condemning me for making such a strong and unambiguous statement, 
>please consider the context within which I made it.

I've considered the context.  

I feel sorry for any woman dumb enough to fall for a walking time bomb
like you, Will.



-- 
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| Steve Novak |    |"Wacker the K"| 
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steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion