From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Good News from U.S.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:02:19 GMT

jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
: 
: First, I never said the holocaust was okay.  Second, the world didn't act
: against Hitler because of the holocaust; it acted because of Hitler's
: invasions.

1) I never said that you said the holocaust was okay.

2) You made my point exactly about Hitler and world reaction: the world
   said it was okay for him to exterminate Jews, because it was an "internal
   problem", at least until he invaded enough other countries.

Using your statement that it's an "internal war", so no outsiders should
be involved, Hitler would have been justified in his extermination if he
had not expanded outside Germany.  If not, please explain the difference,
because I don't see it.

: Third, 1.4 million Serbs in Bosnia lived in Bosnia, owned and
: farmed land in Bosnia, etc. before the current war began; they are not
: invading anybody.  The illegal secessions of ex-Yugoslav republics does
: not change the fact that over 2 million Serbs in those republics were
: taken out of their country (Yugoslavia) against their will overnight when
: the secessions were declared and recognized by the international community
: in blatant violation of international law.

"Blatant violation of international law"?  Come on.

: These historical facts are not the cause
: of the present war, but they do affect how Serbs, Croats, and Muslims
: interact at the negotiating table as well as the battlefield.

1) There are many Serbia apologists on this forum who state that one of
   the main precipitators of the war is the history of the region.
2) Basing present actions on wars and conflicts that occurred 4-500 years
   ago is ridiculous, and one of the reasons this conflict will not end
   easily.  Remember, there were other people in the Beograd region before
   the Serbs arrived; shouldn't we thus kick the Serbs out?

: They don't want to live under regimes which
: by their symbols and actions remind them of WWII atrocities committed against
: them,

If you live in the past, you cannot address the future.

: Perhaps the U.S. ought
: to give up more of its land to Native Americans (why not Arizona, Oklahoma,
: and New England, for example),

Yes, they should.

But then again, we are talking about a current war in the Balkans.  There
is no war in the US at this time.

: The key to ending the war is recognizing all of these
: peoples' rights, not just some of them.  If you choose to side with only
: some of them to deny the legitimate and just demands of another, you are
: a catalyst for more war.  It's your choice: work for lasting peace or 
: lasting war.  I choose peace.  What about you?

Interesting last comment, given that you have given many of your own reasons
why Serbians should be at war, and will continue to be at war just so that
they won't have to be under a government that will *remind* them of WWII.

Also, I'm not choosing to side with one against the other, as far as
self-determination and land ownership go.  I choose to condemn whichever
side(s) are committing cold-blooded murder and atrocities.  Both sides
are guilty of these, but the Serbs are certainly WAY out in front.  Just
read the UN reports.

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10726 alt.news.macedonia:266 soc.culture.misc:591