From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bitachon (Trust)
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:07:27 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <199301261258.AA17284@das.wang.com>, MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
> In: <6280@ceylon.gte.com>
> sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) discusses the subject at length
>
>>What is Bitachon (Trust?) in G-d?
>>
>>The common perception of this concept is that we trust in G-d that
>>whatever happens to us will be good. That is, we believe G-d is good,
>>and that whatever endeavor we undertake and any situation we find
>>ourselves in, then because G-d is good, things will be good.
>>
>>Of course, there are two possible outcomes. Either the even will turn
>>out good, or it won't. So what happened? The usuall explanation is that
>>it depends on whether we are worthy or not. That is, if we merit it,
>>then it will be for the good, if not, then it won't be for the good.
>>
>>Now, even those who explain Bitachon this way, will qualify things
>>slightly.  That is, if a bad occurance happens, then true, it is a bad
>>occurance to us.
>
> Sure,  never question  the underlying  assumption, do  never allow  an
> "experiment" to  decide, because whatever its  outcome, the assumption
> is correct.  Why? It just is.
>
>>                 That is, on the revealed plane to us this appears bad.
>>However, on the hidden level it is good. That is, everthing that occurs
>>to us G-d intends for our good. At a particular time and event might
>>appear to us to be bad, however, the inner intent is for our good.
>>Sometimes, after the passage of time this inner goodnes in the event
>>will become apparent to us, and sometimes it might never become
>>revealed. Still, our Trust in G-d is that G-d is good and that we
>>believe even the revealed bad contains within it a deeper inner good
>>(just not perceivable by human-kind).
>>
>>This is where things usually end. But the Rebbe asks a further
>>question.  What is the simple meaning of Trust? Does not trust mean
>>that we trust that G-d will give us a revealed good? What would the
>>point be in trusting that G-d is going to deliver us a revealed bad,
>>but a concealed good? Something is really not very good until we can
>>really see in a revealed way that the thing is good. Until then, for
>>all practical purposes it is bad. Besides, what would the use of our
>>trust be? Sure we trusted, but we got bad. Our trust had nothing to do
>>with what we got. It was our merits. The same thing would have occured
>>if we did not trust.
>
> I rather  stop here.  The Rebbe  by any possible twist  has to support
> the believe in the  "good" God.  As I have stated  before on scj, with
> the Holocaust and its one  million (lacking of merit?) Jewish children
> and  babes, and  the  many millions  of others  murdered,  no talk  of
> "revealed bad" but "concealed good", can *conceal* the fact that there
> was no God there  when he was needed, all the rest  is just talk, talk
> and talk.

As one who lost 70 (80 ?) close relatives in the Holocaust including a
grandfather who was gassed  and an aunt and her baby who were burnt alive on a
pyre at Birkenau, let me quote Deuteronomy (DVARIM) 28:15-69  and 32:15-31.
Read these passages *first*; then you can comment on "there was no God there
when He was needed". "EICHAH YIRDOF ECHAD ELEF USHNAYIM YIRDIFU REVAVA".

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL




>
> I know  that there  quite a  few who survived  and kept  on believing.
> This is  a fact  which just  shows that  there is  no limit  of people
> clutching at straws trying to give a "meaning" to their shattered life
> from a source which continuous to prove it's non existence or at least
> not caring.
>
> I shall skip almost all the  rest of Yecheskal's article, leaving just
> some of his special gems.
>
>>This is what David says in Tehillim: (Psalm 55)
>>
>>Hashlech al HaShem yavcha, v'hu y'chalklecha, lo yitan l'olam mot l'tadik
>>
>>Throw on HaShem your needs, and he will support you, he will never
>                                                       =============
>>allow the tzaddik to fall.
>  =========================
>
> And later:
>
>>This all applies to the individual. An individual might sometimes
>>and some point in his/her life be less than perfect and perhaps less
>>than totally meritorious. However, when speaking about the totality
>>of the Jewish people, then certainly we are meritorious. Thus
>>certainly via our Bitachon in HaShem, and our trust in our redeption,
>>he will certainly bring Moshiach and the true and final redemption.
>
> Sure deny  all evidence  from the  past and what  has happened  to the
> "meritorious"  people,  just  keep  on  mouthing  the  same  worn  out
> platitudes about  the good which that  God who let us  down time after
> time will  do in some  *future* time.   From past experience,  I  will
> never buy a used car from "Him".
>
>>Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
>
>  Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish