HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:27:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.235547.1710@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.140013.13389@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>
>
>>AGA _does_ top Apple and IBM.  We're talking standard equipment here.  Apple
>>gives you 24-bit standard on a Quadra, sure, but they're somewhat more
>>expensive than an A4000, too.  As for PCs, the standard everone compares Amigas
>>to is your bog-standard ISA 486 with SVGA.  SVGA is 18-bit, while AGA is 24.
>>The Tseng board I use at work can do 32,768 colours at once at 800x600.  AGA
>>can do 262,144 at the same res.  SVGA cards don't have a blitter, copper, or
>>sprites.  You can get the blitter and one sprite with a Windows accelerator,
>>but not a copper.  And, I like my draggable screens, thanks.
>
>
>I would like someone to point out where the market is for 24-bit graphics.
>I only know one person who really uses 24-bit files and that is for 
>high end DTP where the 24-bit Mac is used in conjunction with $200,000
>drum-scanners, syquest cartriges by the dozzen, and about a million
>dollars worth of equipment which I don't even remember the names of.
>This Ham8 is going to give us near 24-bit color in high resolutions that
>can animate full screens and this is on a platform already geared for
>video.

We are using 24 bit files almost exclusively. Only after everything is
done, we make usually four different versions of animations. One in our
local 32bit format, one in DCTV 4bit, one in DCTV 3bit, one in 16color
hires. In fact these quadruple versions eat our storage area like crazy.

>What advantages does 24-bit have?  The disadvantages are: file size, 
>slow speed, and no animation... right?  C'mon, what does 24-bit have?

The main (and possibly the only) advantage is a minimal acceptable
accuracy of the image data. Makes multiple image processing sessions
more possible.

>I hope there is Ham mode between Ham8 and Ham becase I don't think you
>really need 256,000 colors for many animations/applictions. 

Good idea.

>                                 NCW

Dariusz Bolski
-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Date: 15 Sep 92 09:09:03 -0600
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
 <1992Sep14.034736.24755@tronsbox.xei.com> <1992Sep14.100016.1207@msus1.msus.edu>,<1992Sep14.234232.816@tronsbox.xei.com>
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Sep14.234232.816@tronsbox.xei.com>, bleys@tronsbox.xei.com (Bill Cavanaugh) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.100016.1207@msus1.msus.edu> lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>>
>>The point here is that making comment on the machine is fine from a perspective
>>of not having used it.  However, making judgemental conclusions is not.  Lets
>>not add the 'trust' component here.  I highly doubt Marc even knew the poster
>>of the original data.
>>
>
>Doesn't matter if he knows him, and your opinion of whether Marc
>should trust him is less relevant than anything we've discussed so
>far.

It does when you have made statements relating to Marc posting commentary from
someone 'he trusted' - your words.

>>This is clouding the issue.  Marc made references to the A4000 under 256 color
>>mode and judged it "unusable", and stated that it "crawled".  These
>>pronouncements were made after reading one person's report about the machine,
>>and never having any experience on it whatsoever.
>
>It's your right to have an opinion on Marc's opinion.  It's not your
>right to say that Marc can't have an opinion just because he hasn't
>experienced the slowness first-hand.

I never said Marc didn't have a right to an opinion.  I never said Marc didn't
have a right to anything at all.  What I said was Marc had no business making
pronouncements and judgements based on what he knew.  There is a difference
here.  An opinion is one thing, but making a statment of fact (e.g., the
system ***CRAWLS*** - note this is stated as fact, not as an opinion) is 
another thing entirely.  In any case, followup to this if you desire, but the
thread has lost its point at this time and I see no need to pursue it further.

                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (mr_scary)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advo
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 13:22:11 EDT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

-> From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
-> 
->    It's not the square pixels; it's just an effect of the higher-quality
-> display.  Amiga pictures all look just as blocky on an A3000 with a 
-> multisync monitor.  Amiga pictures may look less blocky on an Amiga with
-> a lesser quality display (such as a 1084S monitor) because the colors 
-> and pixels tend to bleed a little on these monitors.
-> 
	On the 1084, there are visible scan lines which make the pixels
appear smaller and smoother.  On my Flixer Fixed screen, I appreciate the
brighter colors that scan doubling produces, but the pixels themselves are
twice as high.  MCGA will look blockier than a 1084 display of the same
resolution, due to the pixel sizes.  This isn't necessarily because of a
"lesser quality display", but because the display mode has scan lines.


"Suicide is not a viable alternative.  No matter what | Chris Hurley
situation you have been placed in that is making you  | Augusta, GA
unhappy, it can be traced to an individual or group.  |  U.S.A.
This person or group must to be destroyed. "          |
- Unknown, revised by me. mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us|



---
 * AME 1.07 * I surely hope RTG comes soon!
                                                                            
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 & HYPE!
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:13:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep07.155525.18073@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>> 	It was on display at the CBM show in Sydney. Basicaly what you have
>> is an accelarator replacing the A2000 68000 and a grafx card replacing the
>> chip set. So You are buying another computer minus the keayboard.
>
>and case and power supply and memory and hard and floppy disk interfaces and
>serial and parallel ports and so on... all you're buying is a new CPU.
>
>That's considered an advantage when it's a 486 DX2 or an Overdrive chip, why
>are you belittling it here?
>-- 
>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
> `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
>  'U`
  
Better add operating system and software today, (Not Tomorrow).

Jim



Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
InterNet  10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au     \_.-._/       Brentford Square
 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: none
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:07:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.065608.3906@desire.wright.edu>, fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu wrote:
>	I think XMS and EMS fits the discription of kludge that someone
>	posted.  I believe the definition was from Byte.  Would someone

Well, I just came back to the sane world after three weeks or so studying PC
architecture and God it's a nightmare.
-- 
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mike@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Link
Organization: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:49:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.041503.1390@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>
>The bus is a problem, the OS is a problem, audio is hardly standard and if 
>you call the SB the standard then you've settled on a poor one. CD-ROM's
>are not cheap and the software is neither plenitful nor inexpensive. The

Sounds more like you're talking about the Amiga, not a PC Clone, except for
the bus of course :-)

>I don't see the Amiga standing still. It needs more sofware, but so do PC's.
>Try running one on a network some day.

I do, every day of the year, works fine for me?

>Philip McDunnough

matt.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:27:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.071832.16158@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.010011.9732@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>When in 256 color mode, the machine really crawled.
>>Just moving this icon around was horrible.  The reason for this, I believe
>>is that the AA Chipset, although 32 bit, is still only 7MHz or something
>>(to keep in sync with NTSC).  The performance was worse than a Mac with
>>a 68030 in 256 color mode.  At least in the workbench (using 3.0).  Maybe
>>there are still some bugs, but it was alot slower than expected.
>
>   In a way, the AA chipset is going to become the great equalizer, in favor of
>systems like the Mac and IBM systems which have had 256-color hi-res modes for
>a long time.  Ever since the Mac II and IBM SVGA systems first started coming
>out, people have been complaining about their slowness while stating (falsely)
>that the Amiga was faster.  The real problem all along has been that 640x480x8
>is a hell of a lot of data to move around, and the Amiga did not have any modes
>to use as a comparison against these systems.  Sure, the Amiga seemed faster,
>but only because it's inferior display meant that it was not burdoned with 
>moving lots of data around.
>
>   But along comes the AA chipset, and we finally get to see how an Amiga 
>performs with 8 bitplanes at 640x480, and we see that it **CRAWLS**.  In fact,
>we find that the Workbench is **UNUSABLE** in 256-color mode because it is
>so slow, even though the Mac and IBM systems -- which have been available for
>much longer -- are pokish but still very usable with 256 colors.

	You idiot, you are so prdictable. Were did you hear that ? From second hand you were told that they are as fast as a A3000 in interlace in 16 colors
which is faster that MACs or IBMs. I doubt you have ever used a mac. They are so
choppy it's not funny any more. IBMs at 256 are just as bad depending on
what kind of a deal you got with your IBM, unuseable. The IBMs I used are
often crawlers at 16 colors.
	A life is in order for you. The one you have is totaly wasted.




>
>   The odd thing about the AA chipset, then, is that it could easily move
>die-hard Amigaoids to viewing Mac and IBM systems with a little more respect.
>
>>keith
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

	Oh well, a question why do you still have an Amiga ? Why do you use it 
to emulate a mac. It seems you are still enjoying the quality that Amiga
offers. You just have a problem.
	CYA
		George
From: ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Here's one for ya....
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:07:48
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: iank@microsoft.com's message of 14 Sep 92 17:27:06 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Sep 92 17:27:06 GMT, iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) said:

iank> Now, my question: What happens to A4000 owners when these new
iank> chips hit the market in new cool machines with zippy 24bit
iank> graphcis and 16bit 100Khz sound? Speculations anyone?

Probably they will take there SCSI-II cards, there DSP cards  and
there 040 cards out, go get a A5000 sans SCSI and processor, (if C=
sticks to the Zorro III compatibility and 030 bus on the motherboard)
take it home, put the 040 board back in (boy that 060 board looked tempting)
along with the SCSI-II and DSP card.  (Gee I'm glad these were not
built onto the mother board)

Then they will post to .advocacy that they had to pay for a new case
and power supply and now they have a bare 4000 for sale.

I hope this will be the case.  I'm looking for some sort of commitment
to the modular processor idea from C= for at least one generation (the
AAA or TC "two-chip").

If you are happy with your 3000 then great.  Many 500/2000 owners
decided not to get the 3000 and might now be moving to the AGA
machines.  

-- Andrew Hansford
   ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:58:16 GMT

glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>> You need more than 256 colors for Workbench!  I am just curious as to why.
>
>	So you can run Intuition Applications that use the windowing
>system with lots of colors in each applications window maybe?

I have tried this under the Windows environment.  After opening three
applications the desktop is cluttered.  Having multiple screens is much
nicer.

>Duh.

You should understand now.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 08:02:00 GMT

Reason for A600 ECS machine?  

How about a $1000 A3000 by mid year?

Sound salavatory?

The 3000 is the new midrange machine... and a very nice one at that...

in other words, the lower end platform will MOVE, and well, and there will
be a substantial market for software written for ti.

Thom
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:17:59 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>I saw scuds shot down by patriots on TV.  That's enough substantiation for me.
>Several times.

  Did you tape it?  I'd like to see a taped, confirmed hit.  All I saw was
missiles fired into the air and detonations above the visibility ceiling.
I also saw what was claimed to be the remains of a shot down Scud, I never
saw the missile fall to earth after being destroyed in the air by a Patriot.

  I also never saw any radar tracking video that would have confirmed a hit by
seeing the doppler on the incoming target drop to zero as well as the tracking
video show a decreased signal return indicating a fragmented target.

  -jack-
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:06:39 GMT
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie

In <18c9giINN4ja@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>Animation speed I'll give you that, but with the horsepower of a P5 and the
>bandwidth of local bus there's a lot of resource laying there to be wasted.

True, the horsepower of a 486 or P5 might be cheap, but both machines use
the same storage technology.. And your average clone exactly wastes its
horsepower when accessing disks.

>As to disk storage for images, ever heard of JPEG?

Ah.. and what about movies which needs to be decompressed at 30fps ?
Without special hardware (which is independant of the base machine)
you can only use simple techniques (i.e. not JPEG). And HAM8 inherently
needs less storage.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
From: bheil@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Brian Heil)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Reason Why A3000 Owners Are MAD!
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:14:15 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Sep15.024914.20120@nntp.uoregon.edu>, by ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles):
> In article <BuLAt2.310@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes:
>>>
>>P.S. I originally bought my C-64 for $625. Maybe I should sue the bastards
>>and get my money back.
> 
>    And I paid $599 for my bare-bones Amiga 500 some years ago. Funny, I don't
> feel used that they now cost $299. I sold it and then upgraded. Simple. If you
> don't have the money to upgrade, you don't have the money to upgrade.
>    Just remember people (not you, Mike <grin>), when you bought your Amiga,
> there was no contract with a clause that said: "Commodore shalt supply you
> with fair, free, significant upgrades." It's a business, not a charity.
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
> All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just some more thoughts on this, to show it really does happen elsewhere.

I purchased an IBM Model 95 (as a Novell FileServer) one month ago.  I picked
it up yesterday and glanced at the price sheet.  It's now >$1000 cheaper!  
Hmmm and it seems the Model 70s I purchased to use as workstations aren't
even sold anymore.  

I won't even mention the wonderful new Apple Performa line!

It happens - deal with it pink boys!
(oh yeah, and I purchased a 3000Tower 5 months ago and I couldn't be happier!)
-- 
Brian Heil                 |    A3000T       Tom     |      Dietary Department
brian_heil@uiowa.edu       |       //       Servo    |  The University of Iowa 
bheil@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu |    \X/         Rules    |   Hospitals and Clinics
            Amigargnugen!  It's what makes a computer an Amiga. 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Subject: Re: IBM lamers at their worst - uiuc siggraph meeting
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:45:19 GMT

matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt) writes:

>Yep, that's right, Amiga is the only computer that can lay graphics
>onto video tape.

	You mean the Amiga is the only computer that can lay
down cheesy, pseudo-12-bit, fringy, chunky graphics directly
to video tape.  That's pretty amazing.  I don't think
DCTV counts -- what's that about an extra encoder for
some SVGA card?

	BTW, the Amiga isn't the only computer that can do
that.  SGI's Reality Engine boards can output encoded
NTSC or PAL (even HDTV!).

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Barricide in Math 101 (Was Re: More AmigaWorld Lies)
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:52:41 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <David_Braun.047m@panam.wimsey.bc.ca> David_Braun@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (David Braun) writes:
>   I can think of five Amiga dealers in Vancouver BC off the top of my head.
> Since the US has 10x the population of Canada that must mean that there are
> 10x as many Amiga dealers down there.  Using a variation of =MB= math this
> would give the average American city roughly _50_ Amiga dealers.  Wow! 
> Computer heaven!

Yes, that's -MB- Corrollary #1.  But using -MB- Corrollary #2, (which
is geared to the more pessimistic mathematician) you get 5x10^-23 dealers/
city.  THIS IS UNFORTUNATE.  COMMODORE IS DOOOOOOOOMED.  HOW CAN THEY STAY
IN BUSINESS WITH LESS THAN 1 DEALER IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES?

But, of course, using the -MB- Theorem, you find out that only 2% of the
dealers have sliding electric doors in their storefronts (pshaw!  If you
can even CALL them storefronts!  What kind of storefront doesn't have an
electronic sliding door???  COMMODORE is DOOOMED!!!).  Evaluating the -MB-
Proof is left as an exercise to the reader.  (Here's a hint:  COMMODORE IS
DOOMED!)

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet!starpt!doiron     (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
** Not enough sanity to perform requested operation.  Kill -MB- post and retry.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: WOC - A4000 - sunga rattef
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:07:13 GMT

In article <18qt50INNlla@phakt.usc.edu> dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>
>Well, I'm sure the net is going to bombarded with similar messages
>describing the new A4000, but what the hell! :)
>
>25mhz 040 (processor module)
>2 megs chip (max)
>up to 16 megs fast on MB w/simms
>os 3.0 (on hard drive I believe)
>4 zorro 3's 3 AT slots
>IDE HD interface  (Boo!)
>same sound        (Hiss!:)
>same resolutions as ECS
>256,000 colors from 16.8 million 
>Don't quite know what it means, but 'Hardware Scan Doubling' (flicker fixer?)
>
>The A4000 config sheet list the following machine:
>A4000 040/120
>6 megs ram
>3.5" 1.76 meg high density floppy
>120 meg IDE HD
>94 key keyboard
>2 button mouse
>AmigaDOS 3.0
>
>I'm surprisingly depressed, considering it is a pretty nice machine. I
>guess I wanted a sound upgrade(DSP), and SCSI. Otherwise it is right
>on target.
>
>BTW, for those who doubted Sunga Rattef(I know, fatter agnus), the 
>mouse and keyboard ports are on the back left of the case, which is
>the size of the a3000, but shape of a2000.

	The critical question for many. DOES the A3000 work with AA
or is it AGA (Baby talk) Please be gentle with me :-(
	George
 



>
>/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
>| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Don't  | David Leslie           |
>|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Tread  |                        |
>|   \\\///      |        --        | On     | dleslie@usc.edu        |
>|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Me!    |                        |
>\--------------------------------------------------------------------/