From: mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: Y/TCT Minirules
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:45:03 GMT

We get to pick to pieces someone's game rules?  great!

I have had a bash at writing some rpg rules myself, which doesn't
neccessarily mean I know what I am talking about, but it does mean I
have pondered the subject at length. so...

|> Basic Characteristics
|>         Characters start with 160 points.  These are divided between
|> twelve basic characteristics.  Extra points can be saved and used to
|> enhance some secondary characteristics.
|>         The 12 characteristics are divided into the Social (APPearance,
|> CHArisma, ZEAl & SOCial Standing), Mental (INTelligence, JUDgement, WILl &
|> TALent) and Physical (CONstitution, STRength, DEXterity & AGIlity) groups.
|> You must put at least 36 points in each group and may not put more than 72
|> points in each group.  No characteristic may be lower than 1 or higher
|> than 24  No more than 20 points out of the starting total may be reserved
|> for enhancement of secondary characteristics.

A points system for stats and skills.  Fairly tried and true..lets the
player tailor the character to his desires, and doesn't restrict the
range of skills a character might have.

You seem to have a LOT of stats here.  Generally I am in favour of
decreasing the number of stats, especially stats like:

Charisma:  Depends largely on the player
Appearance:  Why not let the player describe the character's appearance?
Social standing:  More a factor in the character's background than a
                  statistic.
Intelligence:  Hmmm.  I am inclined to loose this one also.  have you
ever seen a player roleplay a character smarter than himself?  And in
95% of the games I have played, player's never really play a dumb
character as really dumb.  INT seems a kludgey stat at best.

|> Secondary Characteristics
|>         Size: Physical size of the character.  Humans start at 12 for
|> females and 13 for males.  Other races may be higher or lower.  SIZ can be
|> increased or decreased at a cost of 3 per point added or 2 per point
|> subtracted.  SIZ may not be lowered to less than half normal or more than
|> one and a half times normal.
|>         Damage Class: Potential force of weapon blows.  Maximum Damage of
|> weapons is adjusted by multiplying DC by weapon damage and dividing by 10.
|> Average: 13.  DC = (2Size + 3STR)/5.
|>         Activity Points: How much a character can do in a six second
|> round.  All actions have a cost in AP.  For example, a Short Sword Attack
|> costs 20AP, Dodging a blow costs 24AP.  Average: 50.  AP = INT + JUD + 2
|> DEX + 2AGI - 2SIZ.
|>         Fatigue Points: How quickly a character gets tired.  Most actions
|> have a cost in FP.  For example, in combat you lose 1FP per 30AP spent.
|> Average: 50. FP = 3CON+WIL.
|>         Hit Points: Ability of character to withstand damage.  A  typical
|> attack will do around 5 points of damage.  Average: 30.  HP = Size + CON.
|> + 5.
|>         Mana Points: Used to cast spells.  A typical spell costs 6 to 10
|> MP. Mage Average: 125  Priest Average: 30.  Mage MP = TAL x 10.  Priest MP
|> = ZEA x 3.  Mage regeneration is TAL per day.  Priest regeneration is
|> ZEA/3 per hour of prayer.
|>         Skill Points: Skill points are divided between Social, Mental and
|> Physical Skill Points.  In each area you start with SP equal to the total
|> of the number of points spent on the four characteristics in that group.
|>         Experience: Each 1 starting point spent can buy 10 additional
|> Experience Skill Points.  These are allocated to Social SP, Mental SP and
|> Physical SP.  The area to which you allocate the most points can never
|> have more than twice the number of the area to which you give the fewest.
|> Experience Skill Points are also gained during the course of play or from
|> training.
|>

YIKES!  Things get scary when a player has to perform grade-school math
to design a character.  You seem to have played a lot of Runequest I
would guess.   Fatigue rules seem both important, and very hard to
implement to me.  In no system I have played has anyone really taken any
notice of fatigue.  Its one of those things that is either absent from
the rules, or too complex for players to bother with.  If you some up
with a simple and elegant system for fatigue, I would be gald to hear
it. 

I like the idea of APs (I came up with a similar concept :) but why use
such high numbers?  why not just scale everything down to numbers less
than ten?  

|> Learning Skills
|>         Each skill has a cost in Skill Points.  Each time this cost is
|> spent the character gains 1 Skill Level with that skill.  The higher the
|> SL the better the character is with the skill.  Skills are differentiated
|> as Physical, Social or Mental to indicate which type of Skill Points may
|> be spent on them.
|>         Skill Benefits: Each character gets to reduce the cost of some
|> skills based on his racial and professional background.  These reductions
|> are called Skill Benefits.  Each character gets 5 points worth of SBs for
|> his racial background, 5 more for his professional background and 5 to
|> distribute to skills of his choice.  SBs can be combined, but they can
|> never reduce a skillUs cost below half of its starting cost rounded up.
|>         Skill Contribution:  Related skills contribute to each other.
|> Skills are classified into groups by how similar they are.  For skills in
|> the same group each SL with one skill gives 1 Contributive Point to be
|> spent on all other skills in that group.  CP are used to purchase
|> Contributive Skill Levels which add into total Skill Level when
|> determining effectiveness with that skill.  You may never buy more SL with
|> CP than you have bought with real SP.

I think you should be walking through the rules that the player is going
to have to deal with, saying to yourself 'reduce complexity, reduce
complexity!)

|>         The Skill List: Skills cover all the things a character might want
|> to do, from common crafts, to languages to arcane knowledge.  We can't
|> provide a complete skill list here, but we can provide some guidelines.
|> Skills have SP costs ranging from 3 to 8.  Most craft skills are in the 3
|> to 5 range, combat and magical skills in the 5 to 8 range.  Skills have
|> Facilities ranging from 1 to 8, with the typical skill having a FAC of 4.
|> Combat skills have a FAC of 2, languages have a FAC of 8 and all magical
|> skills have a FAC of 1.
|> 
|> Using Skills
|>         Each skill has a Facility and an Aptitude.  Facility indicates how
|> easy that skill is to perform.  Aptitude is a basic characteristic or
|> combination of characteristics which helps you with that particular skill.
|> Your chance of success with a skill is determined by your Skill Rating.
|> The higher it is, the better you are with the skill.  SR = Aptitude + (SL
|> x FAC).
|>         To determine success with a skill you roll 1D100 and add your SR.
|> You check this value against the following table of possible results:
|> 
|> SR+1D100        Result 151+    Critical Success 101-150 Success 51-100
|> Marginal Success 26-50   Failure 1-25    Critical Failure
|> 
|>         Critical Failure means that not only does the skill not work, but
|> the worst possible result is achieved, often opposite the intended result.
|> Failure means the skill just doesnUt work.  Marginal Success means minimum
|> adequate results are produced.  The skill works, but not well.  Success
|> means the skill does what it is supposed to do.  Critical Success
|> indicates a superlative result, the best possible.
|>         Skill rolls are adjusted for the Difficulty of the situation under
|> which the skills are used.  In most cases this Difficulty is a value
|> assigned by the GM, usually ranging from 0 to 100, averaging around 40.
|> It is subtracted from the Skill Rating before rolling.  In comparative
|> skill use when the skill of one player is competing against the skill of
|> another the lower SR is subtracted from the higher SR and the player with
|> the higher value rolls on the table and adds the difference to his roll.
|> 

Have you playtested this?  Sounds like these rules have plenty of margin
for producing odd results.  Why percentiles?  Is it just the RQ
influence creeping in?  I like D6s, myself, for the bell shaped curve.

|> Combat
|>         Combat uses the same basic skill system.  Characters purchase
|> attack and defense skills with specific weapons or techniques, and the SRs
|> with these skills are compared to determine the results of attacks.
|>         Activity Points in Combat:  Combat is broken down into Combat
|> Rounds. This is the period of time in which a character can spend all of
|> his Activity Points.  AP regenerate fully each round.  Each combat action
|> has a cost in AP. Each time that cost is spent the action may be repeated
|> until the character runs out of AP.  If extra AP are spent on a given
|> action the SR can be increased, or in the case of attack skills the damage
|> can be increased.  Up to 3 times the AP cost of an action may be spent.
|> The first increment spent allows the character to use his full SR and
|> Maximum Damage (if it is an attack) with that skill.  The second and third
|> add half that value each.  Additional increments can be spent to increase
|> either Damage or Skill Rating. AP spent on defensive skills subtract from
|> the total for a given round of combat.  AP for individual attacks subtract
|> when the attacks are made.
|>         Attacking: At the start of an attack the attacker declares which
|> part of the defenderUs body he is aiming at (Head, Chest, Abdomen, Arm,
|> Leg, Hand, Foot).  Just as with any other skill the SR of the attacker
|> with his weapon skill and the SR of the defender with his defensive skill
|> are compared (adjusted if necessary for any additional AP spent to
|> increase SR).  The attacker rolls 1D100, adds his Attack SR and subtracts
|> the defenders Defense SR.  If the target area is a small body area (hand,
|> head, foot) an additional 20 is subtracted from the roll.  The result is
|> looked up on the standard skill table.  A Critical Failure or Failure is a
|> Miss.  A Marginal Success hits in a body area other than the one aimed at
|> (the defender chooses any adjacent area).  A Success hits the area aimed
|> at.  A Critical Success allows the attacker to choose the target area or
|> to change his hit to any other body area of his choice.
|>         Damage:  Once a part of the body is hit damage is determined.
|> Each weapon has a Maximum Damage value.  This is modified for the
|> characterUs Damage Class.  The effective damage is (MD x DC)/10.  Damage
|> is rolled with 2D10.  The actual damage is (Roll x Adjusted MD)/10,
|> essentially taking a percentage of MD. If doubles are rolled the value
|> used is the value of the two dice added together.
|>         Armor:  Armor absorbs damage.  All armor has an Absorbtion Value
|> rated between 1 and 6.  The higher the AV, the better the armor.  This is
|> subtracted from damage.  Whatever is left over effects the target.
|>         Results of Damage:  Each area of the body is assigned a percentage
|> of the characterUs total Hit Points (Head 15%, Hands 10% each, Arms 20%
|> each, Chest 50%, Abdomen 35%, Legs 30% each, Feet 15% each), .  If a blow
|> does 1 times that value it is a Serious Wound.  If it does 2 times it is a
|> Critical Cound and if it does 3 times it is a Mortal Wound.  For the
|> specific effects of damage by body area see the chart in the complete
|> rules, but as a rule of thumb, Serious Wounds result in incapacitation of
|> limbs or unconsciousness in other body areas. Critical Wounds result in
|> permanent disability in limbs or slow death elsewhere. Mortal Wounds
|> result in severed limbs or immediate death elsewhere.  Damage is also
|> differentiated by type of weapon (Club, Edge, Point) and this may alter
|> effects.  Healing is at a rate of 1/10 of total HP value divided between
|> body areas on a percentage basis each day.
|> 

REDUCE COMPLEXITY! REDUCE COMPLEXITY!

My feeling is that comabt systems should be quick, deadly, and exciting.
Bogging down in calculations is no fun.

HIT POINTS:  The old standby.  Ever thought of loosing them completely?

|> Spell Casting
|>         Magic is part of the world background in Ysgarth.  It is usually
|> not a feature in To Challenge Tomorrow, but it can be used in TCT
|> campaigns.
|>         Magical Power:  Spell casting is technically the same for
|> characters using traditional magic or priestly magic.  The main difference
|> is that priests get their Mana Points from their god and mages get their
|> MP from within themselves.  Each spell has a cost in MP and MP regenerate
|> at different rates for mages and priests.  For mages MP come back slowly
|> with time.   For priests they come back quickly when the priest prays to
|> his god.
|>         Magical Skills:  Each mage learns a Casting skill and an
|> Empowering skill.  They may learn more than one of each.  Casting skills
|> (Somatic, Symbolic, Ritual, etc) represent the methods by which spells are
|> cast.  They add to Activity Points and increase determine the spell
|> casting Skill Rating of the character.  The Facility of all Casting skills
|> is 1, but they are based on different Aptitude characteristics, add
|> varying numbers of AP, and not all work with all kinds of spells.
|> Empowering skills (Relative, Contagion, Sympathy, etc.) are the methods by
|> which Mana Points are directed into spells  They reduce Mana Point cost
|> and can provide valuable situational modifier if the right components or
|> conditions are present.
|>         Learning Spells:  Spells are learned like skills.  The more SL you
|> have with a spell the higher your Skill Rating will be and the more power
|> and effectiveness you can use.  Each SL of a spell adds 10 to the Skill
|> Rating determined from the Casting skill you are using.  You can have
|> Skill Benefits on spells and similar spells contribute to each other.
|>         Variable Spell Casting: When casting a spell you can increase the
|> power of the spell by casting it at additional Casting Levels.  Each CL
|> can increase one characteristic of a spell by one increment of
|> effectiveness (Range, Damage, Duration, etc).  Added CL reduce chance of
|> success by subtrading 10/Cl from Skill Rating with that spell.  Each
|> additional CL also increases Mana Point Cost by its original value.
|>         Casting the Spell:  When casting a spell you roll 1D100 and add
|> your Skill Rating with your Casting Skill., adjusted bya dding 10 times
|> any Skill Levels with the Spell and subtracting 10 times the total Casting
|> Level.  This adjusted SR value, including the die roll is compared to the
|> standard skill table.  Critical Failure can lead to horrible results on
|> the Spell Fumble Table. Failure wastes the MP invested, but produces no
|> results.  Marginal Success produces a spell which is lower than expected
|> in either Range, Duration, Damage or Effects at the discretion of the GM.
|> Success does what the spell is supposed to do.  Critical Success allows
|> the caster to add one increment of power to Range, Duration or Damage at
|> his choice.
|>         Spell Costs: When a spell is cast, even if it fails it uses
|> Activity Points and Mana Points.  Mana Point cost is set, but can be
|> adjusted by to your Empowering skill., or increased because of higher
|> Casting Levels  Activity Point cost is set, but you can gain AP depending
|> on your Casting skill.
|>         AP in Spell Casting: A spell caster may spend extra AP on casting
|> a spell just as he can with combat skills.  The results are the same.  The
|> first time the character spends the AP cost of the spell he does a
|> standard casting with his base SR.   The second and third times he spends
|> that AP cost add 50% each.  You must spend at least one times the AP cost
|> to cast a spell and can spend no more than 3 times its base AP to increase
|> your Skill Rating.  The AP cost can never be lowered below starting value.
|> 

You have listed HOW to cast spells, but not any info on where spells
come from, and what you can do with them.  Again, the rules seem very
Runequest-ish.  Do you just supply a boring old list of spells for the
players to choose from?  Can players design their own?  Is magic very
powerful, or just helpful?  

I would suggest you read and play Ars Magica, at least, for ideas on how magic
systems can differ from the D&D mold.  My own system uses a building
block concept where the players construct and put together spells
like lego, but it needs a very major rethink. 

Keep up the good work, guys (and gals?)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy