HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
Date: 22 Jan 93 11:36:59
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Distribution: usa
	<1993Jan21.015110.8181@colorado.edu>
	<1jovqjINNgc@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panther.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM's message of 22 Jan 1993 09:20:03 -0500

mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
|In article <1993Jan21.015110.8181@colorado.edu> pellouch@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Philip Pellouchoud) writes:
|>In article <1993Jan20.151728.7585@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
|>
|>>  In the South, they have Robert E. Lee's birthday.
|>
|>Boy, I guess me being from Hicksville Colorado, I didn't realize
|>that!  Again though, not a "nationally recognized holiday."
|>

|I don't know what part of the south Clare is referring to, but
|I grew up in Athens, Ga., and I don't even know when Robt. E.
|Lee's birthday is, nor do I recall ever having a day off in
|honor of it.

|On the other hand, Virginia (which I consider to be "the north")
|has memorials to the confederacy everywhere. Of course, that
|could be because there were many historic civil war battles here.

Robert E Lee Day exists in 8 southern states (coincidently, I just saw
this on a calendar about a week ago) whose names I forget.  It's
actually absorbed by the MLK day, if you can stand the irony.  I
believe it fell on the 19th of Jan this year (that's a Tuesday)....

--
Peace.
"Let me give you a word on the philosophy of reforms.  The whole history of
 the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her
 august claims have been born of struggle...If there is no struggle, there
 is no progress.  Those who profess to  favor freedom and yet deprecate
 agitation, are men who want crops without plowing the ground.  They want
 rain without thunder and lightning.  They want the ocean without the
 awful roar of its many waters.  The struggle may be a moral one; or it may
 be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a
 struggle.  Power concedes nothing without a demand.  It never did and never
 will."
                           Frederick Douglass
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Kung Fu
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:43:00 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Well, for laughs, I looked at the 1st episode of the new Kung Fu. Boy
Carradine looks like a tubby old white guy now, and his son is completely
euro-Am, though he does speak cantonese. Basically runs like a bad
American Chinatown gangster movie, but it does have kung fu fight scenes
and lots of Asian (but not very good) actors. Not a classic.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Re: Experiencing racism...
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:44:08 GMT

ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Oliver Wang) writes:
|When it comes to discussing personal experiences of racism (or any other kind
|of discrimination for that matter) and relating that to a bigger societal
|discussion, keep in mind that just b/c you don't personally experience some-
|thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
|
|I've heard too many people claim that "This place isn't racist...why, I'm a 
|person of color and I've never been a victim of racism."  Good for them.  How-
|ever, just because YOU don't THINK you've been affected doesn't mean that 
|it doesn't exist.

Yes, but...

Many people (especially at places like Berkeley) talk about racial
prejudice and discrimination as if nazis had free reign and control
of the country.  Such rhetoric isn't likely to be effective with
people who never experience the type of things nazis do.

Most racial prejudice and discrimination these days is covert,
which is much harder to detect in individual cases (though
controlled experiments and statistics which carefully filter
out other factors can show its presence) and much harder to
counteract.  The obvious cases tend to be rare, though the
media tends to focus on them.

Of course, every person's experience (or lack thereof) with
racial prejudice and discrimination (overt or covert) is different.
No generalization can accurately describe how each member of
any group of people experiences it.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Living on Planet Me)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:24:56 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe):
	> I suspect that Ms. Tseng must be part of some kind of organization that
	> suppresses free thought and that seeks to define appropriateness as it
	> damn well pleases.  I further suspect that the majority of the members of
	> this group are Chi....

Don't try to be so coy, it's not very becoming - in fact, it's quite
pretentious and tiresome.

	> >...
	> >Judy Tseng, judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu
	> >Co-chair, Alliance of Asian Pacific Americans

	> Well.  Just as I thought!

Hee hee <snicker>. Notice the organization is Alliance of **_Asian_** Pacific
Americans. It doesn't say Alliance of **_Chinese_** Pacific Americans. Asians
can include Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Laotian, etc.

You assumed that because Ms. Tseng is Chinese then the entire organization is
Chinese. My my my, how Chinese-cu of you.

You assumed that because Ms. Tseng is Chinese-ge then she must be trying to
suppress "free speech," a trait only you associate with the Chinese culture.
If you will remember your oft-repeated, genetics != culture. My my my, how
Chinese-cu of you.

<giggle giggle>

	Melinda
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:05:17 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
|As far as racism and slavery: It's clear from reading Jefferson's own
|writing that he was strongly opposed to slavery.  One of the first
|bills that he introduced as a young Virginia legislators would have
|made it legal for a slaveowner to free slaves (the bill lost).

Hmmm, this sounds really strange.  What if a slave owner didn't want
the slave to be a slave any more?  What was s/he supposed to do?

With repect to Jefferson and his own slaves, why didn't he unenslave them
by going to a state where unenslaving slaves was legal and declare them
unenslaved there?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11857 ucb.general:221
From: moroney@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Richard M. Moroney)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal-Are we unclear on concept here?
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:44:04
Organization: BSAC, U.C. Berkeley, Berkeley, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu's message of 21 Jan 1993 06:37:50 GMT


I just can't let this comment pass unchallenged:

}-ref-} In article <1jlgbu$4tc@agate.berkeley.edu>,
	ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Oliver Wang) writes:

} 1) None of you are Judy Tseng.  Therefore what gives you the power
} to say whether she was or was not a victim of racial/sexual
} harassment?

Well, there must be a way to objectively decide when and where
harassment occurs.  Clearly you can't even think of solving a problem
until you know where and when the problem exists.  Mind you, I don't
claim it is EASY to draw the line, just that it must be possible to do
so.

I thought Oliver's second comment was well stated.

Have a nice day.
--
Richard
moroney@diva.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: corr@g5.com (Jerry Corr)
Subject: Link to S.U.N.Y. Buffalo, New York (geography dept)
Keywords: Does anybody know it? Help....
Reply-To: corr@g5.com
Organization: Generation 5 Technology, Inc.
Distribution: judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:34:20 GMT


---
Jerry Corr                      Internet : corr@g5.com 
Generation 5 Technology, Inc.   Ma Bell  : (303) 427 - 0055



Judy, Do you know a way to help me find the Internet address for the State University 
of New York at Buffalo. I was a student there 1982-1986 but now I cannot access
the School. Everything has changed..... I have interested in finding out about
my old department, GEOGRAPHY and possibly starting up a University program at S.U.N.Y
at Buffalo. My company is involved in the GIS industry and three CALIFORNIA 
Universities, Calfornia State University, Long Beach, Calfornia State University, Chico
and CAL POLY State Univeristy, San Luis Obispo all have our software. If you know any
departments at Berkeley that might be interested in Receiving GEO/SQL for GIS 
applications please E-MAIL me.  GUNG HAY FA CHOY - My wife is Taisunese.

Thanks
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.singapore
From: v3keong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Keong)
Subject: Re: Mentality of Singaporean (Grossly over generalization)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:39:59 GMT

fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan) writes:

                        [stuff deleted]

> Are we so weak in our cognitive ability that we can not tell right from
> wrong, that we have to silent the WRONG ? Attack, argue, dispel, yes, but
> silent ? All these when Singaporean themselves are arguing for a more open
> society, open minded governing ? So are Singaporeans not ready to step into
> the new era afterall ???

Well spoken my friend. While we all bemoan about the lack of freedom of speech 
in Singapore, there needs to be checks and balances for people who abuse the 
privilege when they do have it. I am not arguing that what whoever did to that 
foul-mouthed guy was right or wrong, but such checks and balances need to be 
present for life to be controlled and this 'controllability' has to be 
sustained for S'poreans who are so used to being 'controlled', in some sense. 
So how do we evolve into the new era? But then what defines this new era? The 
free for all we see here in N.A.? Is the S'porean society ready for this? 
Where along the continuum of evolving societies are we? Let's hope this thread 
develops into some useful discussion.



v3keong@student.business.uwo.ca (Victor Keong)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: jctwu@soda.berkeley.edu (Jeffrey Twu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal--overview
Date: 23 Jan 1993 21:19:57 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1jr4e0$cdh@agate.berkeley.edu> broberts@ocf.berkeley.edu
  (Bryce Roberts) writes:
>"Never trust a white guy who thinks he knows about racism, because for sure
>he doesn't know what he's talking about."
> 
>If someone famous hasn't said that before, they should have. That's not
>liberal catharsis. It's the truth. Nevertheless, I'll have to break this
>rule because I just can't understand the logic of what's going on here. 
> 
>Maybe I'm just naive, but hasn't this whole discussion become a bit
>worthless? When this thread started, I was hoping we'd get dozens of
>messages from people of all races speaking candidly about the _overall
>racial climate_ here at Cal. That was, after all, what Ms. Tseng's initial
>question was about. Excepting a few posts, all we've really discussed is
>whether the "Look at that Asian girl!" comment was racist or just plain
>obnoxious.

That's an interesting comment.  For some reason, I gather that some of
the persons in this discussion are arguing (at least partially) for more
personal reasons, but oh well...

Anyhow, I'll reiterate:  I have been victim of no type of racial
harassment here at Cal.  There have been incidents of a little cultural
insensitivity, comparable to Perot's "you people" slip and the clustering
of Asian backgrounds--but I didn't take it very seriously, considering
that the speaker's mistake was more out of ignorance rather than intent to
offend (hey, and aren't we all ignorant in some areas?).  But there were
no blatant acts of racism.

There is a "tension," though, whenever I see how certain Asians deal with
non-Asians.  It's like they're not sure how exactly to approach each
other.  This usually occurs with the more recent immigrants and those who
come from a mostly Asian community, but I hardly ever see such unease
with an Asian raised in California in an ethnically mixed community.

Most of my classes, however, do involve the hard-sciences, and there do
tend to be more Asians in those classes, and among those Asians, there
are a significant number who feel a little bit uncomfortable when meeting
non-Asians...

But as far as what they're thinking--I don't really know.  I have no clue
as to what type of stereotype they may be hiding, or perhaps they're
unease is traced to something larger, like cultural differences (everyday
things, like shaking hands or even eye contact are biggies).

Jeff
-- 
+-Just remember:------------------------------------------------------------+
|	Take it easy.							    |
|		...and don't forget that human touch.	   	            |
+<jctwu@soda.berkeley.edu><c60b-3mc@web.berkeley.edu>__________[Jeffrey Twu]+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Why so much about sex here? only way to express? Re: Asian AM with African AF
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:35:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.144651.16794@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan13.040609.14680@netcom.com>,
>timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes: 
>> q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>> |Alan (not Arthur) Hu writes:
>> |>In the
>> |> circles I run in, both Asian- and African-Americans are under enormous
>> |> social pressure either to blend into upper-middle class white suburbia
>> |> or to develop separatist ethnic solidarity and pride. 
>> |
>> |Alan points out a really interesting dilemma here.
>> |Assimilate or Separate!  (You can really see this
>> |going on at college campuses too).  Could this
>> |be a *false* dilemma, that people are pushed into?
>> 
>> Maybe it means that people still haven't learned to live together
>> in a diverse group.
>=====================================================================
>May I tentatively float a way out of this *false* dilemma of
>"Assimilate or Separate!"  Perhaps bi-culturalism or multi-culturalism
>is the key.  And I mean authentic multi-culturalism (not this namby-pamby
>PC-ish multiculturalism talked about on colleges campuses, which is
>nothing more than take some classes in the political history of opression).
>
>comments?
>
>SteveS


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.singapore
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Net etiquette (was Re: Joke about intolerance...)
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 02:46:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.135016.9507@philabs.philips.com> ncl@philabs.philips.com
(Nai-Chi Lee) writes:
>I sent a message to root@andrew.cmu.edu yesterday morning, complaining 
>the behavior of Rikiya Asano (ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu) over this news group.  
>By afternoon, the system administrator there acknowledged.  Judging from
>the fact that Rikiya Asano issued an apology this morning, someone at CMU
>must have given him a lecture on net etiquette.
>The next time someone uses vulgarity over the network and make inflammatory
>remarks (such as equating Singaporean with Japanese), it is not worthwhile
>to lower ourself to his level and get into a shouting match.  What usually
>works is to find out what organization the offender belongs to, then send 
>mail to "root" there, attaching a copy of the offending message, and let 
>them take care of the offender.
>I hope we all become a little smarter after this recent incidence.

Today, my faith in democracy and the Western-cu (and Japanese-cu) way was
reaffirmed.  With elation, I noted that women (and men) have the right to air
their views in a free society and that those views with the most stupendous
logic shall preview.

Then, I read this crap.  I have no idea about Mr. Nai-Chi Lee's ethnicity, and
I don't care to know.

However, I can say that Mr. Lee is most certainly Chinese-cu.  He does not
like Mr. Asano's views and has attempted to censure Mr. Asano and his views.
That's precisely the kind of crap that the Chinese-cu dominated Singaporean
gov't does.  They have an Internal Security Law that seeks to squelch opposing
ideas if they don't confirm to the gov't line:  i.e. if they don't confirm
to the Chinese-cu line.

Note that I vociferously disagree with Mr. Asano's views, but I respect his
right to air those views.  In no uncertain terms, I condemn the culture and
the society that instilled the petty narrow-minded views that Mr. Lee espouses.
We all should consider Mr. Lee as a representative data point from his culture
and should appropriately adjust our opinion of that culture.  I condemn a
culture that seeks to silence opposing ideas; I condemn Mr. Lee's culture.

In other words,  I condemn Chinese-cu culture.

Have a nice day!

P.S.

Japan should have been allowed to keep all Chinese-cu terroritories that it had
won during the war.  Under Japanese-cu guidance, those areas--annexed as
prefectures of Japan--would be far more democratic and prosperous than they
are today.  Mr. Lee is fine example of what Chinese-cu rule has
produced.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
From: johns@m.mscs.mu.edu (John Simms)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: On Hating Whites was Re: * Michael Crichton
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:22:30 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
NNTP-Posting-Host: m.mscs.mu.edu

In article <8fLq6vG00iV3I91Z9B@andrew.cmu.edu> ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya
Asano) writes:
>
>This individual doesn't know the hoorible treatment
>that I've been taken by those humans whom were white.

Please tell us about it.
From: jctwu@soda.berkeley.edu (Jeffrey Twu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Experiencing racism...
Date: 24 Jan 1993 02:08:15 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1jso5r$i9a@agate.berkeley.edu> ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu
  (Oliver Wang) writes:
[Much complaining and criticism omitted]

Chill, man... not all of us are that ignorant.  If you take that tone,
I'm afraid no one's going to listen to your ideas.

Yes, I've never personally known blatant racism.  But I'm no stupid
enough to say that it doesn't exist.

Yes, I guess I've been "acculturated" into American society (according to
your definition), since I was raised here since four years of age.  But,
I don't kowtow to American "propoganda" just for the sake of it.  The way
I see it, I take in all cultures (Taiwanese, Japanese, Civil War
African-American, "American WASP," Buddhist, Hindu, SoCal valley-girl,
etc.), and only choose to identify with those facets that I think are
"right."

So, please don't overgeneralize and sh*t all over the newsgroup.  It's
on the brink of stereotyping...

Jeff
-- 
+-Just remember:------------------------------------------------------------+
|	Take it easy.							    |
|		...and don't forget that human touch.	   	            |
+<jctwu@soda.berkeley.edu><c60b-3mc@web.berkeley.edu>__________[Jeffrey Twu]+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.singapore
From: ncl@philabs.philips.com (Nai-Chi Lee)
Subject: Net etiquette (was Re: Joke about intolerance...)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:50:16 GMT


I sent a message to root@andrew.cmu.edu yesterday morning, complaining 
the behavior of Rikiya Asano (ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu) over this news group.  
By afternoon, the system administrator there acknowledged.  Judging from
the fact that Rikiya Asano issued an apology this morning, someone at CMU
must have given him a lecture on net etiquette.

The next time someone uses vulgarity over the network and make inflammatory
remarks (such as equating Singaporean with Japanese), it is not worthwhile
to lower ourself to his level and get into a shouting match.  What usually
works is to find out what organization the offender belongs to, then send 
mail to "root" there, attaching a copy of the offending message, and let 
them take care of the offender.

I hope we all become a little smarter after this recent incidence.
--
Nai-Chi (the "Sabo-King")
From: ching@vsattui.llnl.gov (David Ching)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:18:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science, at LLNL

Well, what about President's Day?  Although we are not celebrating a
specific caucasian american, all presidents (so far) have been
caucasians.

dave
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11950 soc.culture.singapore:402
From: rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Defining "White" Culture
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:46:03 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Wataru Ebihara writes:
>The following is from "The Counseling Psychologist" (p. 618, Sage
>Publications, Inc., 1985) by J. H. Katz.  It makes an attempt to
>list the components of so-called "White" American culture.  (Note
>that "White" is used as a cultural generalization/stereotype, and
>not in reference to "all" Caucasian people.)

Interesting.  Thanks for posting this, Wataru.

The logical next question is:  How are these values and beliefs different
from those of Asian Americans?  I went through the list, and couldn't find
many differences from my own values and beliefs.  A few differences, but
nothing major.  I'm not such a strong believer in "rugged individualism"
or the importance of social status, but this is probably due to reading
Orwell and Veblen at an impressionable age as much as anything else.  I'm
an atheist, but there's a lot of Chinese Christians, and a lot of white
atheists.  I guess I know somewhat more about Chinese history and Chinese
culture than the average white American would, but I don't see this as
being a major difference, either.

Pragmatism, work ethic, high value placed on time and money, preference
for rationality, belief in progress -- all of these seem to be pretty
consistent with my own values and beliefs.

Anybody else think there's identifiable differences between the "white
American" values and beliefs, as described by Katz, and Asian American
values?

-- Russil
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11930 talk.politics.misc:69458