HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bblumenf@ems.cdc.com (Robert Blumenfeld)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: The trend in adventure games
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: bblumenf@ems.cdc.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <xeno.717929872@pv34ad.vincent.iastate.edu>, xeno@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen) writes:
|> In <14626@chalmers.se> d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan Andersson) writes:
|> 
|> >In article <12631@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> toma@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) writes:
|> 
|> >> Why suffer and type when you can just push a button?
|> 
|> >Because a GUI gives you all your options up front. This is great in normal
|> >software but utterly boring in an IF game. Natural language at least gives
|> >you an illusion of an unlimited interface.
|> 
|> >/Johan
|> 
|> Perfect... bless you!
|> 
|> That is exactly what I've been trying to put my finger on...  The graphical
|> interfaces restrict you to 'act' on 'object' with 'object'...  The generic
|> verb is what I hate most...  There is an implied 'do something with this'
|> when you click on a character with an object...
|> 
|> If I want to throw a trumpet at a tiger, for example...  Instead, you may end
|> up playing it (but only if that is the 'right' thing to do...)  So the game
|> becomes a "Where's Waldo" adventure where you try to find all the objects
|> on your current graphic screen and click on them with each of the objects in
|> your inventory.  If you do this on every screen, you are almost guaranteed
|> to solve the adventure (unless timing is involved).
|> 
|> ---Xeno


Try some of the Legend Software stuff (Spellcasting 101, 201;
Timequest).  Theirs is a hybrid GUI/text that's quite flexible.  It
does give you clues via a menu of objects and verbs, but if you ignore
that side of the screen (which can be turned off completely if you
fear temptation), you're right back in a classic text adventure.
And I can tell you from experience, just clicking on an object usually
doesn't do much more toward solving the puzzles (Timequest has one
which requires at least six separate actions and sub-puzzles) than
letting you  know the object is usable.

-- Bob
From: bkeener@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian E. Keener)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: New ZORK question : " I got all the... hey!  what's up?"
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:09:49 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science


	Okay... first of all, thank you to everyone who solved the Mystery
of the Uncrunchable Coal Pile"  I can now get a giant diamond without using
the "two-month slaray" plan.
	Second... HELP!!!!! (again...)  I got every single possible treasure
I know of, and I am still missing some!  (at least I think I am...)  I heard
a long time ago that there are twenty treasures in ZORK... I appear to have
only found about 14 of them.  If anyone has a list of all the treasures and
their locations, I would also be greatful.
	Finally, some other nagging questions...

(1) how do you open the jeweled egg without smashing the canary?
(2) how do you get into the secret passage betwixt the Cyclops Room and the
	Living Room?

If anyone has the answers to these burning questions, send a response to

ESUTHERLAND@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU, or just reply via email.  Thank you.

							-MetalMaster (Ed)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: jacob@tcs.com (Jacob Butcher)
Subject: suggestion for FAQ
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:04:08 GMT

(Excuse me if this has come up before... I've been looking for it and
have not noticed it in the last few weeks.)

It seems to me that one of the most useful pieces of information for a FAQ
is a canonical list of interactive fiction, preferably including
information like how to get the game (eg store, ftp, bbs), a brief
description, the difficulty factor, what machines it runs on, what form of
interface it has (eg text, graphics, a mixture, whatever), and perhaps even
a short review.  I would estimate that there are fewer than 200 decent
quality interactive fiction games in existence, so a list of them, or at
least of all the ones we know of would not be too large.

So... If anyone has such a list, even if it is relatively incomplete,
please mail it to me.  (But don't mail me random lists of the InfoCom
games... I know about all of those already.)

I will post a summary.

					~jacob
From: mollems@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Top 10 Adventures
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:25:29 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <Bv9zEJ.5A5@rice.edu>, adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton) writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.060104.10605@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> ins750t@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jim Giannakis) writes:
>>Since many other newsgroups have got their lists of movies/games/whatever ,
>>Here is my list of top 10 adventures...
>>1. Guild Of Thieves 
>>2. Zork 2
>>3. Leather Goddesses
>>4. Planetfall
>>5. Fish!
>>6. The Pawn
>>7. Zork Zero
>>8. De ja Vu
>>9. Bureaucracy
>>10. Lurking Horror
> 
> 1. Spellbreaker
> 2. Enchanter
> 3. Zork II
> 4. Zork Zero
> 5. Dungeon (the mainframe version)
> 6. Suspended
> 7. Leather Goddesses
> 8. Deadline
> 9. Lurking Horror
> 10. Trinity
> 
> Adam
> -- 

1. Spellbreaker (Amen, brother!)
2. Trinity (greatest plot of any Infocom game)
3. A Mind Forever Voyaging (no true "puzzles", but it makes you THINK)
4. Bureaucracy (The negative check is my all-time favorite puzzle)
5. Zork Zero (if you throw out the "classic" puzzles like T. of Hanoi)
6. Leather Goddesses of Phobos I (II need not even be addressed)
7. Spellcasting 101 (The backward-time puzzle is a classic)
8. Planetfall (Floyd is the best character in the history of IF)
9. Beyond Zork (The RPG format belies the quality of the puzzles)
10. Infocomics : Lane Mastodon vs. the Blubbermen (NOT!!!!!!!!!!)
10. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (tea and no tea was great)
(tie)
10. Infidel (the puzzles were excellent, even if occassionally physically
impossible things were done with the beam...)
Honorable mention : Fish!, Guild of Thieves, Wonderland, The Pawn,
Zork II, Enchanter, Lurking Horror, Time Quest, and of course Adventure.

Dishonorable Mention : Zork III, any Sierra game in the last 2 years,
ESPECIALLY Leisure Suit Larry V, and Loom -- not because of the story,
but because the interface was so damn disappointing and you just
didn't get to DO anything.

-- M. Sean Molley, CS Department, Western Kentucky University
From: fxmlk@acad3.alaska.edu (KIENENBERGER MIKE L)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Adventure [was Re: Guild of T. and other games]
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:01:00 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC

In article <uerics.717587701@mcl>, uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd) writes...
>Um... actually, I think that the first adventure game was "Adventure", written
>by some scientists at MIT (or some such nonsense).  That's the same as
>Apple Adventure, Microsoft Adventure... etc.
> 
>Scott Adams' "Adventureland" is a totally different (but enjoyable) game.
> 
>- Eric S.
> 
>--
>Eric Shepherd  |  Internet: uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu  |  AOL: Sheppy
>-------- ACM Member ----- Apple II Alliance Charter Member --------
>Erroneous statements and inappropriate opinions stated herein are
>caused by network glitches and are not attributable to the author.

Yes, there were three, maybe even four "Adventure" titles released for
the Apple II early on.  Apple Adventure, Microsoft Adventure, and a couple
more.  They're listed and rated in my Big Book of Apple Software 1981 :-)


I don't remember which version was which (probably Microsoft), but
the version I played had a final "closed" puzzle where the adventure game
had closed up shop for the night, and you were trapped in the huge warehouse.
I never did figure out how to get out of it. Did anyone else?

As for muds, they started off good.  I remember playing Abermud -- a
really decent puzzle very much like Adventure and Zork in nature.
There were many puzzles to solve, some even requiring multiple players
to solve them.

However, it was a static game -- almost never any changes.

Eventually, it was replaced by those other muds, and I quit playing
due to lack of interest (caused by loss of puzzles)

As for good adventures in the style of Infocom games, Adventure, and
(to a lesser extent) the Scott Adam's games, I've not seen any recently.

I have looked at the first Unnkulian Unventure game, but for some reason,
it just didn't seem as interesting (I played it for about an hour or two
before making my decision.)  The only game I have seen recently
that was interesting was a simple mathematical/abstract text game
called Tesseract.
=============================================================================
-Mike Kienenberger                       FXMLK@ALASKA           (BITNet)
 Academic Computing                      FXMLK@acad3.alaska.edu (Internet)
 University of Alaska-Fairbanks
 "I'm a computer programmer....<link><link><kludge><kludge> say-no-more!"
From: bblumenf@ems.cdc.com (Robert Blumenfeld)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: The trend in adventure games
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:08:58 GMT
Reply-To: bblumenf@ems.cdc.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <BvCusq.uu@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
|> In article <12631@sail.LABS.TEK.COM> toma@sail.labs.tek.com writes:
|> 
|> >I've got "mainframe" Zork, a text adventure I wrote, and the Eliza
|> >program. It is incredible to watch people play these -- if you can't spell
|> >you can't get far,
|> 
|> I have a LOT of trouble believing that.  Zork will accept a lot of
|> abbreviations for common verbs and nouns.  Most of the things that you
|> want to type will typically already be displayed on the screen.  We're
|> talking carelessness here.

Abbreviations, yes, but misspellings, no.  Try leaving out the second
letter of just about anything, or transposing two letters, and see how
far you get.  And although the nouns will be on the screen, it's the
verbs that get things done, and they're not there.

|> 
|> >Yes, it is easy to see why menu driven games (or any programs for that 
|> >matter) are so popular. Why suffer and type when you can just push a button?
|> 
|> Heaven preserve us.
|> 
|> Get a dictionary and leave it next to your computer.  Why encourage
|> *illiteracy*, for God's sake?

I agree.  In fact, I think the motivation of winning the game, or even
of continuing to play, can be a great force in teaching kids how to spell
and how to use the dictionary.


-- Bob
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: msr@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Rosenberg)
Subject: Infocom:  Mines of Titan?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:18:44 GMT

I've seen in a computer store (Babbages to be precise) a game called "The
Mines of Titan" that has the infocom label on it.  The game looks like a piece
of shit.  Some sort of poor arcade style game.  I assume that Activision may
have come out with this and slapped Infocom's name on it, but I was wondering
if anyone knows anything more about this.  

--Mike
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
*  Mike Rosenberg                   |   msr@casbah.acns.nwu.edu              *
*                                   |   jth@isp.nwu.edu                      *
*  "Weasel is not a nickname --     |   weasel@nwu.edu                       * 
*   it's a state of mind."          |   weasel@speedy.acns.nwu.edu           *
*                                   |                                        *
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
"Ordinariy he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid"
	Heinrich Heine
From: darkangl@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Copy protection schemes in Infocom games
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:47:05 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <Buzwow.Dx7@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> awilliam@qucis.queensu.ca (Andrew Williams) writes:
> Every time you go to use your car,      you must first present your key. 
                                                                 ^^^^
> Every time you go to use your software, you must first present your password.
                                                                 ^^^^
I'm new here, but I've been following a copy protection thread over a series
of articles.  Here's MHO

When you use your car, you use _your_ key.  It's always the same key, it's
small, and it's portable.  When you use software with an obnoxious protection
scheme, you have a very large, non-portable key: the manual.  It's not
yours, it's the company's, and that lends an unreal fealing to it, so
the user doesn't have the same fealing of ownership (do you give someone
keys to your car?)  A single password specific to the user, or one the
user could request would be a key that belonged to the user.

I've known a few pirates and hackers in my younger, disk-protection days.
Disk-protection serves only as an enticement to creativity.  Of course,
software companies constantly tried to improve schemes, but that was
doomed to fail (anything that can be done can be undone)  That's why the
Apple II version of copyII+ by central point is on something like revision
7 or 9.

But everything boils down to this.  Software companies, afraid of piracy,
charge unreasonably high prices.  People don't have that kind of money,
hence even more software is pirated.  All the hackers I knew would shell
out the money for a reasonably priced piece of software (yeah, I know.
what's reasonable? :) ).  That menat that games often were bought, but
not applications...check out your BBS's for your latest PC tools.

As far as a reasonable solution for users and devolopers goes, there
probably isn't one in the near future, just as there wasn't one for
record companies in the days of audio tapes.  When games go CD-rom
(another obnoxiously priced endevour; it costs a big $1 to produce the
disc, label, cover sheet, and package, far less than any magnetic medium)

However, I must add that those who pirate and then sell software (or music
or anything else copywrighted) or even pirate a pirated copy are low slime.
If the person who had to shell out the dough wants to freely distribute
what he paid a lot of money to buy the right to use, that's his problem.

____________________________________________________________________________
"Ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies" -- Clancy

_______________________________________Darkangel
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Re: HH help still needed..(possible spoilers).
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 10:04:49 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <BvFK4C.FB0@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
>Thanks for the hints when i posted earlier...  I have now managed to get
>somewhat further along, and now I need to know how to give the proper tool
>to Marvin so he can open the hatch.  As it stands, he doesn't wait long
>enough to get the tool out of the next room over, and i can't just stack
>up tools in the room because they all fall through the floor when i drop
>them...  Thanks in advance,
>

Imitation InvisiClues (tm) coming up...

Hit 'n' or 'j' or whichever is your newsreader key for "kill this article"
when you've seen enough...

Figuring out which tool you need to give to Marvin is one of the biggest
puzzles of the game. Whole scenes exist for this sole purpose.

The solution concerns an object that you got at the very beginning of
the game. Hopefully, you've gotten other objects like it.

If you know which object I mean, look it up in the Guide.

You need a total of four of these objects.

The object is fluff. Look up "fluff" in the Guide and you will know how
you will find out which tool to give to Marvin.

The main object in the scenes where you become Trillian, Ford, or Zaphod
is to get your hands on a piece of fluff and put it where Arthur can
access it later.

The first fluff is the pocket fluff. It should be in Arthur's pocket.

Another fluff is jacket fluff. It will be on Arthur's jacket when you
are Trillian. Take it off his jacket (you'll need to drop something first)
and put it in your handbag.

A third fluff is satchel fluff. When you are Ford, open your satchel,
get the satchel fluff (among other things) and put the fluff on the
satchel.

The last fluff is seat fluff. Get it from under the seat of the boat
when you are Zaphod, and put it in the toolbox.

When you are Arthur again, you will be able to collect all these fluffs.

The next clue is the complete solution to this puzzle.

You'll need the flowerpot. When you are inside the whale, put the flowerpot
in the Aunt's thing. That way, it will return to you later, when you
are aboard the Heart of Gold. Take the pot, and plant all four fluffs in
it. Wait until a sprout emerges, then enter the sauna. When you emerge
a changed man, you'll also have a changed plant. Eat the fruit, and you'll
see a vision of what tool you need.


-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: The trend in adventure games
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:38:51 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

I'm starting this thread to talk about the type of game that seems
to be the norm today. You know the type... big on graphics, big on
disk space, short on puzzles, short on executable commands.

The game that, to me, epitomizes the "modern" adventure game is
Leisure Suit Larry V. I think I can say without fear of contradiction
that it sucks. First off, it's horribly easy. Of course it is. What
do you expect? What kind of complex, challenging, clever puzzles can
exist when the only things you can do are "walk", "talk", and "use"?
(oh yes... and let's not forget "unzip".) Secondly, the thing takes
8 megs. 8 megs! What ever happened to the good ol' days, when fantastically
complex, intricate adventures ran easily on the Commodore 64, with its
feeble 40K (or so) of RAM and its 100K floppy disks? Are the improved
graphics worth it?

You can see the change when you look at the differences between Monkey
Island I and Monkey Island II. For MI II, they improved the graphics
marginally, while reducing the number of commands from 12 to 9,
increasing the number of disks required (going by the Amiga version)
from 4 to 11 (thus making it almost unplayable on my floppy-based
system), substituting gaudy pictures of words for the neat, crisp
font they used in the original, and substituting big, gaudy
pictures of inventory items for the neat, crisp list in the original.
An improvement? Well, I've heard that the puzzles and humor are
better (I haven't finished it yet), but I'm saddened by most of the
changes, especially what's happened to the inventory. Are big pictures
of inventory items better than neat words? Especially when they
make it an absolute necessity to keep the disk with the inventory
pictures in the drive at all time, and slow the game down a lot?

What's happening? Do we, the adventure gaming public, actually prefer
these dinosaurs of graphical adventures to the enjoyable text-based
adventures of our younger days? How much longer will we continue to
shell out our hard-earned money for a $50.00 adventure game, only
to discover that it is trash? I can say one thing for sure: I will never,
never buy another Sierra/Dynamix adventure... and Lucasfilm is pushing
it.

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Infocom Dump Program?
From: Norman St. John Polevaulter <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:45:57 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Leader Desslok School of Diplomacy

In article <1992Oct4.195244.6057@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, rschaaf@nyx.cs.du.edu
(russ schaaf) says:

>Is there any way to get a vocabulary dump from infocom games for the
>macintosh?

Come to think of it, I've always wondered if there isn't some way to decode
and print ALL the text of an Infocom game. Comments, anyone?

                  "Two hundredth verse, same as the first!"
[Your blood pressure just went up.]        Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu
DISCLAIMER: If PSU knew I had opinions they'd probably try to charge me for it.
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Purpose of this newsgroup?
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:58:24 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1089@kopasker.is> brl@kopasker.is (Bjorgvin Runar Leifsson) writes:
>
>I just discovered this newsgroup and am very pleased with it.  However, I
>find it very text adventure oriented, especially on Infocom.  Now I am a
>text adventure and a Infocom fan but I also like to play frp games like
>AD&D, M&M and so on.  Is this group not also for those kind of games?
>

"Interactive fiction" generally refers to computer games. For fantasy
role playing games, there's the entire rec.games.frp hierarchy. If
you're using rn, type "a frp" at any newsgroup prompt.

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: Rick.Igou@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rick Igou)
Subject: Re: Unnkulian hint needed
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:52:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.065415.11090@trl.oz.au> simon@shiva.trl.OZ.AU (Simon Michnowicz - A Free Spirit) writes:
>Dear Unkoolians,
>		I know I have to hide the axe in a bucket and
>cover it with the skin to cross the chasm. BUT I CAN NOT DO IT.
>It keeps saying "too big" or something like that.
>
>I wonder if someone can tell me the exact words to use, as I
>am sure I am using the wrong verb, or something like that.
>
>	Thanks
>		Simon Michnowicz


Dear Simon,

There's a version of U-1 that requires a slightly different approach to
get the axe across the chasm--*hiding the axe in the bucket will not
work.*

Try to think of an alternative method.

--

Rick Igou
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: fts5792@zeus.tamu.edu (SRONCE, FRANK T)
Subject: ending of Sorcerer 101
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: ending  
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 23:18:00 GMT

Well, I too like the Legend system of combining text and graphics.

And Sorcerer 101 is very cute and lots of fun, although shorter than I had
hoped it would be.

Unfortunately, I am stuck at the very, very end, when you have to make 
(I believe it was) 3 moves in 2 turns or something similar...

I have been completely unable to find a solution, and would appreciate any clues
or hints available. I don't want an outright answer unless the solution is too
simple to hint at without revealing it.

Kiz

Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction