HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: r0th@ellis.uchicago.edu (Dr. Samuel Conway)
Subject: Re: A word on falconry, from an expert
Reply-To: r0th@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:42:53 GMT

In article <1isdkkINN78a@shelley.u.washington.edu> toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:
>In article <srh3.726770286@Ra.MsState.Edu> srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis) writes:

>>The average lifespan
>>of the red-tailed hawk is anywhere from 20-30 years. 
>
>The average (mean) lifespan of a redtail is probably less than two
>years, and nowhere near 30 years.  The oldest falconry redtails
>I know of never made 20.  When out hunting, a falconer's bird
>is in as much danger as a wild bird, perhaps more.  Everything
>that happens to wild birds (electrocution, shooting, attacks
>by feral cats and dogs, hitting fences, running into windows,
>getting hit by cars) happens to falconry birds, in direct proportion
>to the time each bird is flown.

OK, my turn!

The numbers I have say that the average life expectancy (as opposed
to life span) of a redtail is 10-15 years, in the wild, upwards of
20 years in captivity (no cars, power lines, etc.).  The oldest 
captive redtail on record lived to 39.

And true, a falconry bird has just as much chance of hitting a window
as a non-captive bird.  But at least help isn't far away!


----
Dr. Samuel Conway         *  "If the guest isn't singing, 'Oh What a Beautiful
National Center for       *  Morning' I don't immediately think, 'Oh, there's
Toxicological Research,   *  another one snuffed it in the night!'  Another
Jefferson, AR             *  name in the Fawlty Towers book of Remembrance.
r0th@midway.uchicago.edu  *  I mean, this is a hotel, not the Burma Railway!"
From: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:08:29 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Bluebirds

toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:

>Peregrine populations were low east of the Rockies, but stable in other
>areas of the world.  Should Great Horned Owl killings have been prohibited
>and depredation of young peregrines at hack sites in the eastern U.S.
>allowed to continue, since peregrines were not rare everywhere?  Mr.
>Taylor recognizes the fact that legal != right and illegal != wrong.  Just
>as a for-instance, a mourning dove crossing a state line in the U.S. can
>go from protected "songbird" to main dish, but I suspect that we could get
>a(nother) good argument going on the morality of dove hunting while
>agreeing that the legal status is arbitrary. 

>Personally, I would as soon have a house wren as a bluebird
>in my nest boxes.  I wouldn't give a hearty damn if someone
>else wants to evict a house wren's material from his/her boxes
>prior to egg laying, though, which is all I understood Mr. Taylor
>to be advocating.

[some vaguely relevant stuff deleted]

>And, God forbid he should put up a bird feeder that defeats
>squirrel feeding, or discriminates heavy blue jays from lighter
>cardinals, or dispenses seeds preferred by goldfinches over
>house finches.  Or, we could pass a law...

Let's try this again.  Now that I have been accused of being
"intimidating", making "mis-statements", and incapable of distinguishing
between treaties, enabling legislation, and shinola, I would like
to try to steer this discussion back to where I thought it started.

If my original posting sounded like it was meant to intimidate anyone,
particularly the person describing her joy at seeing bluebirds in
Rhode Island, I sincerely apologize.  That was not my intention, and
I am really not the intimidating sort (I hope).  I will draw the line,
however, at apologizing for not being a lawyer :-)

I merely wanted to make the point that I think it is wrong (and
illegal) to remove sticks belonging to some unseen wren from a
bluebird house.  Arguments about warblers, cowbirds, peregrines, owls,
bluejays and squirrels are not germane to the original issue, and I
will ignore them from now on.  If someone wishes to argue that removal
of sticks belonging to an unknown wren is right (we agree it is not
legal, I hope), please do so without invoking the good name of those
other equally estimable (with the possible exception of good ol'
Molothrus ater) species.

That is all.

-- 
Dave Rintoul                Internet: drintoul@matt.ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU     Latitude 39.18, Longitude -96.34
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                         TCN: id2418
(913)-532-5832 or 6663                  FAX: (913)-532-6653
From: quezon@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Antonio Quezon)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Merlin in Griffith Park
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:52:56 GMT
Reply-To: quezon@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Antonio Quezon)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

=
=I was hiking in Bronson Canyon on the west side of Griffith Park
=in Los Angeles.  It was just at sunset and I spotted what might
=have been a Merlin.  It was larger than a Mockingbird, smaller
=than a redtail, about the size of a Flicker.  The tail was long
=and barred.  The head was flat.  The beak was hooked (Falcon-like).
=It had a dark cap that extened below the eyes.  The belly was
=mottled brown and white.
=
=Could this have been a Merlin?
=
=Thanks
=Kenny Meyer
=kennym@netcom.com
=

It could very well have been a Merlin that you saw.  It is very
common, in areas where Merlins hang out, to see them flying around
in the late afternoon/evening hours (Merlin Madness, Merlin
Happy Hour, etc).

Basically, a Merlin has the same shape in flight as that of the
American Kestrel.  Subtle differences include a slightly broader
wing and an overall darker appearance.  Their flight characteristics
are also different, in that Kestrels appear more light and bouyant
in flight, whereas Merlins are strong, agile, point-to-point,
no-nonsense flyers.  It is amazing to watch Merlins hunting
dragonflies and eating them on the wing.  A white eyestripe and
single faint/smudged mustache mark are not always obvious,
especially when a Merling zooms past at what appears to be
supersonic speed.

I'm not familiar with bird ranges in the west, but if the wintering
range of Merlins includes your locale, then don't rule out a
sighting.


A.J. (Tony) Quezon
CARDEROCK DIVISION
Naval Surface Warfare Center
Code 204.3                             1419 Cuttermill Ct.
Bethesda, MD  20084-5000               Herndon, VA  22070
Work: (301)227-1645                    Home: (703)435-3965
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: Townsend's Solitaire in Toronto
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:59:29 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

A TOWNSEND'S SOLITAIRE (Myadestes townsendi)
has been seen regularly in the Mt.
Pleasant cemetery in Toronto for about the past month.
It is still being seen and can be seen most often feeding
on red berries in plot 24.  It has also been seen in plot
19 and 26 (both are adjacent).

The SLATY-BACKED GULL at Nigara Falls was still being seen
a couple of weeks ago, but I have not heard any reports
(negative or positive) lately. 

The Toronto Christmas Bird Census produced few unusual birds.
These were mostly late birds, including a VEERY (Catharus sp?).
There almost no "winter finches" or other northerners.
We have been having another disgustingly mild winter again.
What is the point of having winter if you can't have snow?
-- 

Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, 
University of Toronto
From: tony@zoo.toronto.edu (Anthony L. Lang)
Subject: Mexican sp. moving north (was Green Parakeet)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:38:09 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article: <1imtilINN40q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>  
 bt768@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Orville L. Ballard)  writes:

  
>I am not an expert birder, just someone who enjoys feeding,
>watching  
>and reading. The last time i stayed at the Fort Brown Hotel in 
>Brownsville the palms around the parking lot were full of both 
>of these birds late in the afternoon. As to the question of
>feral  
>versus vagrant or migratory we have a number of Mexican species 
>rapidly being forced northward due to the destruction of habitat 
>in northern Mexico,. I live about 120 miles north of
>Brownsville.  
>I saw my first green jay along the border close to McAllen about 
>12 years ago. This morning my feeders are over run with them and
>I understand they are now fairly common 100 miles north of here. 
>They are now the most common and dominant bird             at
>my feeders.  
>The same story for anis. In the spring we have flocks of them 
>in the yard and had one pair nest here last summer. I think as 
>we continue to have habitat destruction due to the population 
>explosion along the border we will see more and more Mexican  
>species appearing at our feeders.  
  
If they can survive in your area now, why didn't they move in
before?  When species lose their traditional habitat, they
squeeze into remmants of that same kind of habitat until they
outstrip their resources and there is a population crash.  This
is known from research on habitat fragmentation.  One thing they
DO NOT do is move into habitats and geographic areas in which
they have not been before.  They simply cannot evolve or learn
that quickly.  Probably more likely what is happening is that
they are moving north with the increase in temperature that we
have been experiencing in the last half century.  Bird species
all over North America are moving northward.  In Ontario we have
seen the invasion of NORTHERN CARDINAL (Cardinalis cardinalis),
NORTHERN MOCKINGBIRD (Mimus polyglottos), and TUFTED TITMOUSE
(Parus bicolor) in the recent past without any habitat change to
the south of us.
-- 

Anthony Lang
Dept. of Zoology, 
University of Toronto
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: srh3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Steven R. Hollis)
Subject: Re: A word on falconry, from an expert
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:09:24 GMT

    Let's keep in mind here the region we are speaking of
I live in the south where there are no giant jackrabbits.
The larger quarry I was speaking of were cottontails and
"swamp rabbits"  I see what you are saying about the number
of kills a redtail has made in its first year, but I have also
seen the confidence built in a bird that hasconsistently caught
larger quarry.  There, though , we get into the discussin of
animal intelligence to which each of us has their own view.

Steve

--
============================================================================
Steve Hollis---Your friendly          |  "What for you say you monkey, when
neighborhood zoology major/lit minor  |   you got little powder puff tail
srh3@ra.msstate.edu                   |   like rabbit----RABBIT?"
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins)
Subject: Odd Duck. Anyone help with ID?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:53:42 GMT

Over Xmas a new duck has joined an established group of mallards on a local
pond. It does not seem to correspond to any of the ducks listed in any of
my birding books. I assume it is some sort of hybrid, but can anyone offer
an alternative explanation? It's description follows:

Similar in size and shape to mallard (maybe slightly larger)
Pale pink/yellow-orange bill
Dark eyes
Orange legs and feet (similar to mallard)
Brown head, neck and back
Slate grey underside
White ring (broader at front) around base of neck
White feathers on wing edges, visible above tail when wings folded
"Normal" tail (i.e. not long like pintail, or curly like mallard male)

===============================================================
Bob Atkins  AT&T Bell Labs  email (direct)  att!clockwise!rma
===============================================================
From: ee89tjq@brunel.ac.uk (Timothy J Quilter)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Merlin in Griffith Park
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:35:18 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Kenny Meyer (kennym@netcom.com) wrote:
: I was hiking in Bronson Canyon on the west side of Griffith Park
: in Los Angeles.  It was just at sunset and I spotted what might
: have been a Merlin.  It was larger than a Mockingbird, smaller
: than a redtail, about the size of a Flicker.  

I can't comment on the size as I've never seen the other birds you
mentioned but Merlins are small for a falcon (typically 30cm long).

:The tail was long
: and barred.  The head was flat.  The beak was hooked (Falcon-like).
: It had a dark cap that extened below the eyes.  The belly was
: mottled brown and white.

: Could this have been a Merlin?

Merlins have a noticeable white stripe above the eye. Did you see one?

The most characteristic  thing apart from size is the flight pattern.
Merlins often fly *low* weaving and dashing their way over the ground in
pursuit of prey (typically small birds caught in flight)

: Thanks
: Kenny Meyer
: kennym@netcom.com


Timothy J Quilter 
ee89tjq@brunel.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: rec.birds
From: ah570@yfn.ysu.edu (Ned Keller)
Subject: Re: Townsend's Solitaire in Toronto
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:45:49 GMT


I would consider Veeries to be uncommon to perhaps fairly common
migrants here in Cincinnati.   According to Peterjohn, B., 1989, 
The Birds of Ohio (the standard reference for Ohio birds), at p.
149, "There are no substantiated sightings after October 10-18."

Ned Keller
From: by971@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Agnes)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Las Vegas birding in May
Date: 10 Jan 1993 18:49:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I will be in Las Vegas at a convention in last week of May '93.
Would like to rent a car for 3-4 days and go birding. Any
suggestions for good spots that time of year within, say, 
6 hours' drive? Thanks.
-- 
     Mike Agnes     INTERNET: by971@cleveland.freenet.edu
                    BITNET:   by971%cleveland.freenet.edu@cunyvm
                    FAX:      216 579-1255
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: A different "identify th
From: jabolliger@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:04:41 EST

In article <40811362@kennel.fidonet.org>, Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>         ***** On 01-06-1993, Brian Rice wrote to All *****
> 
> BR> Several individuals of whatever bird this is spent last
> BR> summer in the mixed pine/deciduous woods surrounding Data
> BR> General's parking lot here in Research Triangle Park, North
> BR> Carolina.....
> 
> BR> The song consists of a couple of up-down pairs of notes, a
> BR> trill, and a concluding group of three notes.
> 
> I cannot play WAV files, but your description sounds like
> Bachman's Sparrow or possibly Bewick's Wren.  I'm inclined to
> think the former.
> 
> --- Maximus/2 2.01wb
Or 
	a song sparrow.

Jean Ann
From: culshaw@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: What is a Green Parakeet?
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:35:58 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Can anyone help me?
I am currently planning a birding trip to Texas in April, and according to
previous trip reports, there is a possibility of seeing Green Parakeets in
Brownsville.

Here's the problem......

Neither the National Geographic Guide or the Audubon Master Guide to Birding
appear to mention Green Parakeet. Howard and Moore's Checklist of Birds of the
World has Antipodes Green Parakeet but not plain old Green Parakeet. Lane's
Guide to the Rio Grande Valley of Texas mentions the Parakeet at the back
under the heading "Recent Sightings", but there are no other details.

Does anyone know an alternative name for Green Parakeet, or, preferably, its
Latin name? Is it a genuine US tick, or is it another of these feral jobs? On
the same tack, are the Red-crowned Parrots in Brownsville considered to be
genuine wanderers from NE Mexico?

Thanks in advance.

Andy Culshaw.
From: drintoul@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David A Rintoul)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRDS, RI, USA
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:02:12 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Keywords: Bluebirds

andrewt@watson.ibm.com (Andrew Taylor) opines:

>Are Brown-headed Cowbirds inherently lesser birds than Kirtland's Warblers?

>The Eastern Bluebird has suffered a serious decline which is what at least
>some nest box makers are attempting to remedy.  House Wrens have not.
>I think its quite reasonable, even if it is illegal, to deter House Wrens from
>nesting in these boxes by removing their nesting material.


I, for one, am glad that Mr. Taylor is not in charge of overseeing the
recovery of any avian species.  The simplistic comparison between the
cowbird/warbler situation and the bluebird/wren situation is
misleading, to wit:

1. Kirtland's warbler populations are critically low in the one and
only breeding site; Eastern Bluebird populations are low in some
places, but reasonable in many others.  Population management at a
single breeding site is not the same as population management at a
variety of sites.  Removal of cowbird eggs at the Kirtland's warbler
site still required a special permit from USFWS, since the BHC is
a native North American species.

2. House wrens are neotropical migrants whose population status may be
stable at the present time.  However, given the rate of habitat loss
in central and south America, it is not altogether unlikely that this
species could decline over much of its range in the near future.  Why
does Mr. Taylor think that well-meaning bluebird enthusiasts should be
allowed to perhaps accelerate this process?

3. Simple expedients (such as providing more than one next box) allow
the simultaneous nesting of both bluebirds and house wrens.  As is well
known, there is no simple solution to the cowbird problem.

4. In historic times the Bewick's wren has disappeared from much of
its previous range (admittedly not in Rhode Island, but this is a
globla newsgroup, right?) in the eastern part of the US.  No one knows
why these birds disappeared.  What if some other well-meaning bluebird
enthusiast, say in Maryland, removes a Bewick's wren nest that he/she
assumes was placed there by a house wren?  This is not altogether
unlikely, since both species nest in boxes, have similar nests, and
usually the "offending" wren is not seen by the bluebird trail
personnel.  This person would be responsible for the loss of one of
only a few Bewick's wren nesting records in MD since the mid-30's....
The point is that it is not easy to distinguish between nests of
various wrens; it is relatively simple to identify cowbird eggs in a
Kirtland's warbler nest.

Hopefully some bluebird enthusiasts will read this, think about it,
and act accordingly.  Hopefully Mr. Taylor will never be in charge of
a bluebird trail.

-- 
Dave Rintoul                Internet: drintoul@matt.ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU     Latitude 39.18, Longitude -96.34
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                         TCN: id2418
(913)-532-5832 or 6663                  FAX: (913)-532-6653
From: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Joe Morlan)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Cordell Bank Pelagic
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:27:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:125/20 - SeaHunt BBS, San Francisco CA

The next Bodega Bay Pelagic trip to the Cordell Banks has been
scheduled for Saturday, February 27, 1993 and I will be one of
the leaders. Trips leave at 7am and return at 4pm.  Laysan
Albatross is a good possibility at this time of year.

Cost is $60 per person.  For information and/or reservations,
call George Waldie at 1-916-332-0665 or write to him at 5100
Saddlewood St., Sacramento, CA 95841.

--Joe Morlan, Albany, CA
Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.fidonet.org.


--  
Joe Morlan
UUCP: amdahl.com!kennel!125!20!Joe.Morlan
INTERNET: Joe.Morlan@f20.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Joe Morlan only."
From: grp@Unify.com (Greg Pasquariello)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: A different "identify this bird" posting
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:51:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)


Can you post in sun audio format?  If not, does anyone know how to
translate?


In article <1993Jan6.045624.7516@dg-rtp.dg.com>, rice@mirage.rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice) writes:
> From: rice@mirage.rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
> Subject: A different "identify this bird" posting
> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 20:56:24 PST
> Reply-To: rice@dg-rtp.dg.com (Brian Rice)
> Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.
> 
> I just posted a digitized sound sample of a birdsong to the newsgroup 
> alt.binaries.pictures.misc with subject "Unknown bird .WAV".  If you
> receive this newsgroup and can play Windows 3.1 .WAV files, uudecode
> it and tell me what bird you think it is.
> 
> If you receive that newsgroup and can play some other format of sound
> files, or if you don't receive that newsgroup, let me know and I'll send 
> it to you in the format of your choice (within reason).
> 
> Here's all the info about this sample and the birdsong it contains.
> I recorded it from the actual bird, which I never saw, on August 28,
> 1992, using my very ratty Sharp portable stereo and its cheesy internal
> microphone.  Surprisingly, the birdsong is quite clear over the hiss
> in the sample.  What you hear in the sample is pretty much what I
> heard.
> 
> Several individuals of whatever bird this is spent last summer in the
> mixed pine/deciduous woods surrounding Data General's parking lot here
> in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina.  I never saw any of these
> individuals, since they kept pretty well hidden in the trees, but their 
> song was quite constant and was repeated all day, even in the midday 
> heat (no, it is not a red-eyed vireo, or at least not its typical "hey
> you guys, what ya doin'" vocalization).  As you might expect, the very
> next week after I taped the bird, it and its compatriots departed.
> 
> I took the tape around to some local experts and got no definitive 
> response, although I did get one suggestion I consider plausible
> (though I omit it here so as not to prejudice the jury).
> 
> The song consists of a couple of up-down pairs of notes, a trill, 
> and a concluding group of three notes.
> 
> The sample is in the public domain, although it does have sufficient
> hiss that you probably won't want to start your collection of digitized
> birdsongs with it.  I hope to create some really nice digitized bird
> recordings if I can just save up for a synthesizer card, and a decent
> jam box, and a microphone...
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> 
> --
> Brian Rice   rice@dg-rtp.dg.com   +1 919 248 6328
> DG/UX Software Quality Engineering
> Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, North Carolina    
> "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" --William Strunk

-- 

--
Greg Pasquariello   	grp@unify.com 	        Hobnobbing with the ancients
Unify Corporation	   or		       
(916) 928-6258	    ...!uunet!unify!grp
Newsgroups: rec.birds