HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muyu@tan.Princeton.EDU (Muyu Guo)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:54:38 GMT

From article <1992Aug27.170622.8009@leland.Stanford.EDU>, by claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu):
> In article <92240.095103U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> U38250@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
> 
>>Yes, U.S (I am not sure about Japan and S. Korea) would try to restore the
>>regional peace, but would do it in a totally opposite way as you suggested.
>>The U.S would force the PROC to withdraw itsmilitary threatening or blocking.
>>
>>The U.S. (so far) has never tried to obstruct any country declaring
>>independence. On the contrarily, she gave full recognization soon. See the
>>examples of Croatia, Bosnia, or any republic in the Commonwealth.
> 
> What has the U. S. done for Bosnia-Hercegovina thus far?
> 
> What did the U. S. do for Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, when Lithuania
> initially declared independence but was suppressed by the Soviet Union?
> 
> Zilch.  The United States did not intervene, fearing that that would lead to
> the downfall of Mikhail Gorbachev.  If China uses force on Taiwan, the U. S.
> might very well not interfere as well, fearing that that would lead to the
> downfall of Deng Xiao-Ping.

Is the United States a God? Why should it intervene and mess with 
other people's matter?  If there is no US in the earth, can you
still live?

-- 
--
Muyu Guo
From: U38250@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:51:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92240.095103U38250
 <1992Aug27.023135.23165@engage.pko.dec.com>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Aug27.023135.23165@engage.pko.dec.com>, li@sicvax.enet.dec.com
(Tong-Kang Li) says:
>
>I wonder what would happen if Taiwan declares "Taiwan is not part of China"
>and adopts name of "Republic of Taiwan". My guessing is Mainland China will
>blockade the island enough to cause social and economic chaos, e.g., collapse
>of stock market and money fled out of country, etc. To restore the regional
>peace, US, Japan, South Korea, etc will put great pressure on Taiwan to
>force her to withdraw the declaration. After months, Taiwan may have to back
>to previous state and take a very very long time to recover the economy and
>dignity.
>

Yes, U.S (I am not sure about Japan and S. Korea) would try to restore the
regional peace, but would do it in a totally opposite way as you suggested.
The U.S would force the PROC to withdraw itsmilitary threatening or blocking.

The U.S. (so far) has never tried to obstruct any country declaring
independence. On the contrarily, she gave full recognization soon. See the
examples of Croatia, Bosnia, or any republic in the Commonwealth.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing (Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:41:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.031558.3637@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG) writes:

>one question: in united states, a president candidate A has more votes from
>              american people than candidate B does.  will the candidate A 
>              be the next president?
>              
>the answer is: not necessary.

The answer is, it has happened exactly once since the electors begun to be
voted as slates rather than individuals (Harrison over Cleveland).

The point is, while the electors, even before they were voted as slates,
were voted in by voters, the Tze1 Shen1 legislators were not, by the people
who are still under the direct control of the Republic of China government.

The point is, I feel that Lee has as much popular mandate as Gerald Ford
(that is, not much).
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:40:23 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
> 
> So, Ho is Huan-Ho(Yellow river) and Lo is Lo-Sway(Lo water).
> 

	** So the Holo is Chinese. YOU are a Chinese.

> 
> PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
> biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
> let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
> real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
> e), which is water in Hanzi.

	** This is a very bad PS. It ruins all you credentials.
	   I bet you flunked your Chinese Geography. 

	   Hay, do you know where is Dan4 Sui3 Her2 in Taiwan? 

> Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
> degrade the oppressor.

	** I think by this time, you should lose all your confidence
	   about geography.
From: ifan@festival.ed.ac.uk (Shen I-Fan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: The stronger we are, the more we have and get
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:14:29 GMT
Distribution: soc

It is a very good news for us to have F-16 flighters.  It is also a way 
to improve our technology.  Next time we will see our satellites in the sky.

I-Fan Shen
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:18:59 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <BtrzK8.8JE@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>In article <1992Aug28.141118.9571@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
> 
>Hate is such a strong word.  Does people in  the  Bay  area  hate
>people  in  the  Southern  Cal?  Does people in the New York hate
>people in the deep  South?   Maybe  they  have  disagreement  and
>difference, but 'hate' ...
> 
>Maybe HaGa and HoLo people Hate WSR, because those KMT WSRs  came
>and enslave Taiwanese. they have every reasons to hate them.

As you said below, "hate certainly can not make them a family". So why 
promoting the hatred? Or just you hate everybody. :-)

>As to HoLo and HaGa, basically they speak differently and live in
>different life styles. They are just different.
> 
>Half of my family are HaGa people and Half   are   HoLo   people.
>Hate   certainly   can  not make them a family. I don't  know how
>you get the impression of 'hate'. Or are you mak- ing it up?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: MITRE
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:32:38 GMT

In article <7974@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, chang@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Fengteng
Chang) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug31.134342.5019@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
> >Maybe you are a Min3Nan2.  I don't know if you know the story of
> >Yi4Min2Miau4 and Yi4Min2Yie2 - the sad story of Ke4Jia.  Who killed these
> >Yi4Min2Yie2??  When I was in MiaLi, some Ke4Jia told me they can tolerate
> >their daughter marry a mainlander, but they will not allow their daughter
> >marry a Min3Nan2.  What do you think that means?  As a officer, I have
> >handled a case that a group of Min3Nan2 soldiers fight against a group of
> >Ke4Jia.  Tell me why?  I agree there is a small percentage of intermarriage
> >between Min3Nan2 and Ke4Jia.  This is the same situation like Serbs,
> >Croates and Muslins in Yugoslavia. "All these groups are
> 
> Your story is only one case. There are many different stories.
> My grandparents are Hakka from MiaoLi.
> They were upset but took it when my father married a Holo, my mother.
> However, my grandma keep telling me that don't marry a Chung3-San2-Eh4
> (mainlander, original meaning is those who wear Chung1-San1 suit).
> I never think it is appropriate. But the story is opposite to
> your story.

Do you think your story is also only one case?!  I don't want to argue this
is one case or two cases.  My suggestion to TIer is that: If you want TI,
then give the minorities (Mainlander, Hakka, native Taiwanese) a chance to
express their political point of view.  If these minorities want joint the
new ROT, it is fine.  However, if these minorities do NOT want joint ROT,
TIer should respect their right and give them a chance to establish their
own contry/contries.  Give a vote to these minorities to decide their own
future.  Do you think it is too much to
ask??!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang)
Subject: Re: a Korean view on ROK/PRC diplomatic normalization.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:47:16 GMT

In article <78896@ut-emx.uucp> btlee@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Anitesh Barua) writes:

>    I agree to your assertion that ROK government hasn't delayed its decision "on the behalf of ROC". I cann't believe there is such "moral", "personal" and altruistic thing in international affairs. By the same token, you can not accuse ROK's decision as "betrayal of long friend."   In the previous posting, I give one "practical" reason why we have been eager to establish diplomacy with Mainland China.   
>
I have no problem( and I believe most my fellowmen think the same way) with
Korean people and ROK government pursuing their national interest and destiny.
My question was and is: why President Rho chose the one way of saying 
goodbye that hurt us MOST?


>However, I disagree to your assertion that Rho's government is sucking up to m>ain land regime. As I pointed out, it has been long time since any ideologies >or moral principles diappeared in inter-national stage.   My point is that our> government did the right thing for our own people's interests and you would h>ave been hurt no matter what course and procedure ROK government followed when
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ROK does not have any choice to recognize both countries.  

Please don't force yourself into a either-or choice.
I beg to differ here. There are definitely ways to say goodbye more nicely
and politely. ROK government chose not to. From our viewpoint, this is
suckup toward mainland China. Might hurt Korean national mindset a bit,
but that's certainly how we see it.

Girls? Last summer I was in Seoul for one day, a lot of good-looking girls.
But I heard Chejudo is famous for....never mind.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:18:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.113509.3669@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.225137.24538@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>> The claim is not effective but the claim is too huge to be ignored.  Few
>> states in the world would recognize Estonia if she claims Russia as part
>> of her territory.

>	** Inappropriate analogy. Shame on you.

To mimic one of your obnoxious postings...

What is inappropriate about the analogy?  Why?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Korean Airline flights unwelcome in Taiwanese Airspace, etc. [FWD]
Organization: MITRE
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:28:15 GMT


Don't worry.  The only thing Korean Airline should do is to wait for one or
two years, to establish a child company (e.g. North-Eastern Asia Airline),
and then they can fly to Taiwan again.  Don't worry, be
happy.....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen)
Subject: The future of Taiwan (Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 15:06:09 EDT
Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug27.183750.13849@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang) writes:
>
>I only hope one day Chinese people and goverment will realize that
>you need to give your fellow Chinese on Taiwan respect they deserve.
>That way, they will be more than happy to 'sit down and talk'.

As a matter of fact, Taiwanese are highly respected in Mainland.
Certainly, one untold story is money. In my hometown, Fujian,
people are joking that KMT has successfully had an economic landing
after leaving Mainland 40 years. Personally, I welcome this aggression.
Some years later, the Taiwanese businessman will gain the political
influence in Mainland and KMT may open branches in Mainland and begin
another political landing. In the future of China, KMT may become
a consertive party like the consertive party in UK. CCP may become
a Labour Party like the labour party in UK. China may be renamed as
Republic of Great China including Mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong. This
is my prediction. True or not, let's wait for 30 years. (DPP may be
dead at that time.) Currently, there are already some people in
both Mainland and Taiwan propose the Great China Economic Zone. This
is a step toward Republic of Great China just like EEC is a step toward
United States of Europe.

J Chen
Department of Chemistry
University of Michigan
From: laiichung@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (L. D. ROPER)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:54:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <22147@galaxy.ucr.edu>, lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes...
>In article <1992Aug31.182901.13892@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

= I am a little tired of hearing this : US will or won't do bla bla bla if China
  attacks Taiwan . It's really not the point . The point is we should unite
  together to fight back if China attacks Taiwan for whatever reasons . Because
  we are in the same boat , share the same fate . Even the President in Taiwan
  said that " the interest and benefit of the 20 million people in Taiwan is the
  first priority " . I don't take the US's intervention as something that
  really matters . But if they do , that's fine . If they don't , I won't beg
  them either .
                                                                I Chung Lai
From: cul8er@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (* JOHNNY CHIU * KB5SJN *)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: CQ CQ CQ KB5SJN
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:21:09 GMT
Reply-To: cul8er@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (* JOHNNY CHIU * KB5SJN *)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: cul8er@mickey.cc.utexas.edu

73,
KB5SJN



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.171038.8569@bradford.ac.uk> H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG) writes:
>
>Suggestions: How to Ensure  Taiwan's Independance (TI)?
>
>
>1)  Draw out all the hard currence to buy weapons. Tell ...
>
>2)  Strict control over minorities in Taiwan. Prevent them ...
>
>3)  Win international support. Ask those African countries ...
>
>4)  Assassinate those mainlander or taiwanese politicians ...
>
>5)  Forget PRC. Have a nice sleep. Tomorrow'll be another 
>    day! 
>
> 
> --August 1992, in a very exited mood, night before heavy sh*t fall.

It was possible to have Taiwan to be independent.  But, the governemnt
in Taiwan missed the opportunity.  Somehow, politically, economically,
it is quite difficult to do so now.  But, it may be getting easier in
the future.  Things are changing.  Regards.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:06:22 GMT

In article <92240.095103U38250@uicvm.uic.edu> U38250@uicvm.uic.edu writes:

>Yes, U.S (I am not sure about Japan and S. Korea) would try to restore the
>regional peace, but would do it in a totally opposite way as you suggested.
>The U.S would force the PROC to withdraw itsmilitary threatening or blocking.
>
>The U.S. (so far) has never tried to obstruct any country declaring
>independence. On the contrarily, she gave full recognization soon. See the
>examples of Croatia, Bosnia, or any republic in the Commonwealth.

What has the U. S. done for Bosnia-Hercegovina thus far?

What did the U. S. do for Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, when Lithuania
initially declared independence but was suppressed by the Soviet Union?

Zilch.  The United States did not intervene, fearing that that would lead to
the downfall of Mikhail Gorbachev.  If China uses force on Taiwan, the U. S.
might very well not interfere as well, fearing that that would lead to the
downfall of Deng Xiao-Ping.

The United States did *not* give full recognition soon.  The recognition for
the Baltic republics only came after the coup that directly led to the collapse
of the Soviet Union.  The United States did not recognize Croatia and Slovenia
until a couple months ago.  The United States has yet to recognize Macedonia
due to Greek pressures.  If Greek pressures can get the United States not to
recognize Macedonia, why don't you think Chinese pressures can get the United
States not to recognize Taiwan?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Language
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:14:16 GMT


In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
> 
>First, do not be fooled by those neeters "I  said...".   Remember
>they  were only expressing their own opinion of the origin of the
>HoLo language.
> 
>There has a lot of arguments of the origin of both HaGa and HoLo.
>One  thing  we are sure is they both migrated from north.  We all
>know the history of HaGa. So I am not going to repeat it here.
> 
>As to HoLo, one theory of that is, Why they are  called  HoLo  or
>call themselve HoLo?
> 
>Ho in HanZi is river and in ancient Han the only  river  we  call
>'river' is yellow river.
> 
>Lo in HanZi is also a river name, but in ancient Han  people  did
>not call it a river, instead they call it 'water'.
> 
>So, Ho is Huan-Ho(Yellow river) and Lo is Lo-Sway(Lo water).

Interesting. The places and pronunciation sound very familiar to me as 
a Mandarin-speaking Han/Chinese/Taiwanese. :-)

>Now if netters check your memory of the map of  Mainland  to  see
>where  is the area of HoLo. It is exactly where the Han civiliza-
>tion originated.
> 
>HoLo means 'the people from HoLo',
> 
>If netters wanner know more about HoLo and HaGa, I  can  dig  out
>all my reference. This is real 'culture' subject. :-)
> 
>PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
>biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
>let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
                              ^^^^^^^^^^
>real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
>e), which is water in Hanzi.
>Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
>degrade the oppressor.
 ^^^^^^^
> 

If your opinion about HaGa or HoLo is convincing enough (in fact I found
it very convincing) then above "barbarians" "degrade" seem unnecessary. 

Tom
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:25:55 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Aug30.230459.2115@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes:
> In article <1992Aug30.193011.22704@wuecl.wustl.edu> anw1@cec1.wustl.edu (Aaron Wong) writes:
> >
>
 
[Other imaginary language evolution deleted]


> For example, zan2men0 "we (including the addressee)" came
> from Manchurian.
>

I am suspicious that the Machurian spells we as "ZAN4". 

In Min-Nan and Hakka, you can find similar sounds for "we".
In Min-Nan, it sounds "Lan4", and in Kakka, it is Zan. Same as Beiping 
dialect (Note: I didn't use Mandarin. And it is called by the Mainlanders as
PU-TON-HUA, common language). Today's Mandarin used in ROC doesn't use zan.
(I wouldn't use the word "HOLO"; as a native speaker of Min-nan, I only heard
Hakka called the dialect of Min-nan as "HOLO"). 

[ Rest of a table is delete]

For this, you should read the documents and publications which detailed
the origin of these Min-nan words which largely can only be found in
ancient documents.
-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              */
From: hzp@pi.titech.ac.jp (Hu Zhi-ping 03/93)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: TesT
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:04:48 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Precision and Intelligence Lab., Japan


Just a test ...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:10:01 GMT

In article <HJj-pz#@engin.umich.edu> chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen) writes:
>Currently, the debate on S Korea switched the diplomatic relation from
>ROC to PRC is very hot. There are many emotional articles here. This 
>reminds me an article one year ago. At that time, ROC started a new policy
>trying to gain a dual diplomatic relationship with some small countries.
                                                               *********
                                                       Have close relationship
with U.S.
>The Foreign Minister of PRC, Mr Qian Qishen, received a visit of Liao/ Wang\ 
>(Outlook?) reporter about his opinion on ROC's new policy. Mr Qian 
>said, it is not good for both sides to have a diplomatic war. Only those 
>small countries can gain money and others benefits from the competition between 
>PRC and ROC. But if ROC government wants to start the diplomatic war, I 
>have the power to cut off the major diplomatic relations ROC has, including 
>S Korea and S Africa.
>
>This year, ROC government got some diplomatic relationships with small
>countries by giving them a huge amount of money. I believe this made 
>the Foreign Minister really unhappy and he did what he said one year
>ago. I wish ROC government can be wise and do not make any aggresive
>move. Otherwise, some of netters will cry again and say "a long time loyal
>friend" S. Africa betray them. Probably, all of the dirty words today against 
>S. Korea will be used for S. Africa.
>
>	May God bless all of Chinese.
>
>
>J Chen
>Department of Chemistry
>University of Michigan