HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barle@central.rutgers.edu (Stanko Barle)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mideur-l
Subject: Re: projection of the effects of US intervention in Bosnia
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:13:52 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



|> Please criticise this projection if I am naive.
|> 1) US attacks Serbs in Bosnia and/or Serbia
|> 2) Serbia attacks Kosovo and Macedonia
|> 3) Greece and Bulgaria invade Macedonia
|> 4) Turkey invades Macedonia
|> 5) CIS Red Army invades Turkey
|> 6) WWIII

And how about this:
1) US _DOESN'T_ attack Serbs in Bosnia and/or Serbia
2) Encouraged be that, Serbia attacks Kosovo and Macedonia
3) Greece and Bulgaria invade Macedonia
4) Turkey invades Macedonia
5) CIS Red Army invades Turkey
6) WWIII


|> Moss Madden

Stanko Barle
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:45:51 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films Suggestions

I have been trying to get hold of the some of the films suggested by Mr.
Marcinka, particularly "Shop on Main Street" (Obchod na korze), without success
 although I managed to get a few others. Any suggestions? (I know about the
distributor Video El Canada in London, Ontario but they do not have some of
those I need). Happy New Year to all!
  Henry Kucera
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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:49:43 EST
From:         Ed Haupt <haupt@PILOT.NJIN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Request for information about archives

Thanks for the suggestion about the rus list.  I now have Tschernowzy located
in N.W. Ukraine, found it became Austrian, then was administerd as part
of Galicia, then "Herzogstum von Bukovina" which I assume was still
Austro-Hungarian, got its university in 1875.

My guess (unsupported by facts) is that the archives are in Vienna, and
I have a phone no. but no fax for the archives there.

I took the liberty of using your praise of Buchmann to start my letter.

Thanks,
        Ed  Haupt
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:33:32 EDT
From:         Hugh Agnew <AGNEWHL@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films Suggestions
              31 Dec 1992 12:19:57 CST from <RICHIMW@NSCVM1.NETWORK.COM>

OK, this is about films and books, of course it's a very personal,
idiosyncratic, and probably prejudiced list, but I'm not impressed with
what Marcie got so far, so here goes:

For books, meaning novels? or literature as opposed to scholarship?

If literature, I think the one book that does more than any other to give
a feel for the fate of East Central Europe (at least, Czechoslovakia)
in the 20th C is Josef Skvorecky's _The Engineer of Human Souls_ (if you read
only one Skvorecky, this is the one it should be, podle meho, szerintem, etc.).
Moreso than the Kunderas even though they're better-known.

If this starts something, I'll try to suggest a few others (Danilo Kis?
Gyorgy Konrad?  Peter Eszterhazy is unfortunately little translated).

For films:  Not "Closely Watched Trains," but Forman's "Firemens' Ball" gives
the flavor of "really existing socialism", Czech-style.  For surrealistic
parable, try Nemec's "Report on the Party and the Guests", with its unforget-
table ending.  From Hungary, "Time Stands Still" depicts the framework of
post-1956 life out of which the FIDESZ generation emerges; films by Istvan
Szabo (25 Firemens' Street, Love Story) also rehearse much of twentieth
century history and culture in his own way.  Relatively popular among inter-
national audiences (I saw it at the first Singapore International Film
Festival) was Gyongyossy and Kabay's "Job's Revolt" -- not a typical Magyar
film, much more straitforward and, yes, sentimenal; but effective in the end.
Karoly Makk's "Love" is also a wonderful film.  For Polish cinema, I think
Andrzej Wajda is unavoidable, and of his films the one which is most complete
is "Man of Marble".  His other well-known ones, from the earlier period
including "Kanal" and "Ashes and Diamonds" are also great.  Feliks Falk's
"Top Dog" is a terrific view of Poland in the Gierek-boom-era years.

This is necessarily incomplete and ignores cinema from Slovakia, the former
Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.  But it's a start, and, it seems, more
than Marcie got up to now.  What do the others think for their favorites?

Hugh Agnew
AGNEWHL@GWUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 11:23:07 EST
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From:         James Sheldon <U7636JI@DOES1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More books and films

I'm sorry, but this is a really naive view which ignores many of histories less
ons.  Ethnic hatred/rivalry is a long seated attitude throughout Europe and var
ies only by degree from country to country.  Do the attitudes of German "skinhe
ads" differ markedly from the Serbian "chetniks"?  What about the "Sons of the
Armenian Genocide" (an ethnically based terrorist group) attacks on Turkish int
erests?  Even the Britons display animosities between the Welsh, Scots and E
nglish which are tied to ethnic roots.  I find iot interesting to note that Ser
bs and Moslems lived side-by-side for years under the centrally controlled Yugo
slav communist dictatorship - how quickly the veneer of brotherhood disappeared
 when there was no one around to enforce it.
To accept the comments of the captured Serbian "soldier" as his true beliefs st
retches my credulity.  First of all, what did anyone expect to say under the ci
rcumstances - that he really enjoyed killing, raping and pillaging?  The "I was
only following orders" defense went out with Nuremberg War Crimes Trials
after WWII.
Finally, I take exception to characterizing the pumping up of passionate rivalr
ies in American football as an example of "economically motivated hate."  It re
flects a lack of knowledge of the game and its players and is no more justified
 than attributing the same motive to rival teams in soccer's World Cup.  Uncle
Ernie
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Date:         Sun, 27 Dec 1992 14:51:00 EST
From:         GERHARD REMPEL <GREMPEL@WNEC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Request for information about archives

Ed,
your best bet is to contact

Herrn Wolf Buchmann
Bundesarchiv Koblenz
Am Wllershof 12
54 Koblenz 1
Germany

He was in charge of reorganizing and integrating all of the archives of the
former GDR. He (or someone in his office) was most helpful in giving addresses
and information about holdings for all the Landarchive in the East, as well as
Merseburg and Berlin-Dahlem (Geheimes Staatsarchiv). There is a connection
between the latter two and some of the holdings from Merseburg are being
treansferred to Berlin-Dahlem, but I do not know what or how much.

For the Polish material you might contact

Archiwum Panstwowe w Szczecinie (Staatsarchiv Stettin)
Ul. Wojciecha 13
Pl-70410 Szczecin
Poland

They were quite helpful to me with German documents from the Third Reich.
Someone there might be able to refer you to some archival official in
territories which have changed hands in the recent past.

Good luck,
Gerhard Rempel
GRempel@WNEC/Western New England College, Springfield, Ma 01119
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:19:57 CST
From:         Marcie Richie <RICHIMW@NSCVM1.NETWORK.COM>
Subject:      Books and Films Suggestions

The original books and films request certainly evolved into something else.
I was a little disappointed in the response to the question. I didn't keep
strict tally, but I don't recall any book suggestions. Five films were
suggested: Closely Watched Trains, Intimate Lighting, Incredible Lightness
of Being, The Music Box, and The Nasty Girl.

Marcia W. Richie  marcie.richie@network.com
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:27:40 GMT
From:         Moss Madden <JU39@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films

On Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:07:45 GMT Moss Madden (JU39@UK.AC.LIVERPOOL) said:

>On Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:13:48 EST James Sheldon
>(U7636JI%DOES1.BITNET@edu.buffalo.cc.UBVM) said:
>
>>Some films you might find of interest:
>>-  The Incredible Lightness of Being
>>-  Closely Watched Trains
>            +++++++
>           Observed
>
>
> (There's a sequel by the same director, but
>>I'm not sure of the title)
>
>
>Intimate Lighting
>
>Director: Jiri Musil

Sorry - it's Jiri Menzel


>
>
>--
>      o o o o o o o . . .   ________________________________ _____=======_T___
>    o      _____           ||Moss Madden                   | |ju39@uk.ac.liv |
>  .][__n_n_|DD[  ====|____  |Department of Civic Design    | |(051) 794 3114 |
> >(________|__|_[___/_____]_|University of Liverpool_______|_|_FAX: 794 3125_|_
> _/oo OOOOOO o`  ooo   ooo  'o^o^o                    o^o^o` 'o^o         o^o`
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son." Abe said, "Man, you must be putting me
>on." God said, "No." Abe said, "What?" God said, "You can do what you want
>Abe but the next time you see me coming you better run." Abe said, "Where
>d'you want this killing done?" God said, "Out on Highway 61."
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Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 13:03:25 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More books and films

 Before we end up with any gross misunderstandings in  this discussion, just
two points: 1. The Bosnian situation is certainly a European problem, first of
all. The US has indicated its willingness  to take at least some action (no-fly
zone enforcement, for example) but there is a reluctance (perhaps justified
from their point of view) on the part of the Europeans to go along.

            2. My comment on Mr. Meyer_Kress was understandably provoked by his
undiplomatic command (to put it charitably):"I do want to see any more postings
etc." That is the STYLE of the 1930's, not a pleasant memory. Sorry about that.
  Henry Kucera
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Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:36:26 EST
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films (Stop it !)
              Mayer-Kress" at Dec 23, 92 6:47 pm

Gottfried Mayer-Kress writes:
>
> This is a "Discussion of Middle Europe topics".
>
> We had many discussions on this group about the intolerable
> events in former Yugoslavia or the political changes in
> Czecho-Slovakia etc.
>
>
> It has become quiet more about those topics, the killings,
> mutilations, and rapes in Bosnia are continuing.  If this group
> wants to be quiet about it that is one thing. Turning this into a
> movie-chat channel is something different.
......(stuff deleted)
>
>
>  I don't want to see any more "Re: Books and Films" posting in this
> mailing list!
>
>
        This is not a restricted list. Culture, entertainment and
sports are just as much a part of life in Mid Europe as politics and
war.   I find it quite interesting to learn about what other nations
are thinking and what their people are contributing to world culture.
We could use a bit more serious discussion about books, films and art
on this list.  Granted that the war in Bosnia is very serious.  But
that doesn't mean it should occupy all of our thoughts.

       Just to bring up another topic, I read somewhere that people
were arrested in Prague some time ago trying to sell smuggled
plutonium (or some other badly radioactive substance).  Is this true?
Considering the fuss about the Japanese ship having to be specially
designed and built for shielding to take plutonium from France to
Japan, how is it possible for people to smuggle the stuff? it is not
something you stick in the bottom of a suitcase or hide in your duffle
bag.  It would kill the carrier unless it were in a case lined with so
much lead that it couldn't be carried.  So is there any real danger of
uranium/ plutonium/ etc smuggling?  I begin to think this is one of
those urban legends.

    Jan George Frajkor       _!_
 School of Journalism       __!__
 Carleton University,         |
 Ottawa, Ontario             /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6           /^\   /^\
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604
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From: benes@itk.unit.no (Mila Benes)
Subject: Re:      Re: Literature
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology / SINTEF, Trondheim, Norway
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 08:00:19 GMT

In article <9212220711.AA12553.12553@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca>,         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA> writes:
|> 
|>    why writers???
|>       Does it have anything to do with talent?? I am told that Havel's
|> plays are really not very good as literature, and that his reputation
|> is based on his moral posture rather than his literary one.
|> 

Let me just mention, that V.Havel's plays (e.g. Vyrozumeni) were popular as long back as before 1968, i.e. under A.Novotny's rule, and before G.Husak put him in jail.
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:36:33 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films Suggestions

  This is an inquiry about a film which supposedly exists: The Stalinist trial
of the Czechs and Slovaks (Clementis, Slansky, etc.), 11 of whom were executed,
 was supposedly dealt with in a film whose name I can't remember. As far as I
do remember, it may have been directed by a Greek film maker. I would very much
 like to get hold of a VCR copy of this film if it available (for a lecture) &
 would be willing to pay a reasonable price for it. Any help and suggestions
will be appreciated.

  Henry Kucera, Brown University
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:55:53 CST
From:         Marcie Richie <RICHIMW@NSCVM1.NETWORK.COM>
Subject:      Balkan Wars

Re the discussion that used to be entitled Books and Films: I have
a couple of things for comments and questions.

1. I take exception to the American man who remarked that the Balkan
inhabitants learned their hatred "at their mothers' knees". Having
the experience of being a mother, I can say that my children learned
far more aggressive behavior from their peers than from their parents.
Shades of Lord of the Flies. Which leads me to remark that I don't
hear of women active in the killing in B-H. What role are the Serbian
women playing in this conflict? A recent article in the Minneapolis
Star-Tribune discussed how the women in Somalia are now running the
businesses, banks, relief centers, etc. while the men are out with their
guns. Has anyone seen anything about Serbian women?

2.I like to hear some discussion of the no confidence vote for Milan Panic
a couple days ago. Where are all the folks that saved him from such a
vote a few months ago? Why have they changed their minds? I can guess, but
has anyone read any interviews, etc. given by people that voted for him
the first time, but against him the second?

Marcia W. Richie  marcie.richie@network.com
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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 10:50:11 EST
From:         Ed Haupt <haupt@PILOT.NJIN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Request for information about archives

Many thanks.  Are there e-mail addresses for Koblenz or Szczecin?
        Ed Haupt
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Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 1993 13:29:05 -0500
From:         GEORGE BAUER <BAUER@RCKHRST1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Balkan conflict (was: Re: More books and films)

Maybe the weapons confiscated in Somalia should be sent to Bosnia to
help "level the playing field."  (Americans like sports metaphors.)

Incidentally, I agree the the problems in Somalia will, I regret to say,
probably reappear with the removal of outside influence.  Although few
would argue for reappearance of Soviet power outside their borders, it
is true that that power surpressed ethnic rivalries.
The reappearance of these ethnic rivalries has given the world a new
type of disorder.

Unfortunately, those who control by power and force and violence are
seldom persuaded to change their behavior except in the face of superior
force.  Perhaps the world can find different ways to persuade them to
use their power to feed people rather than to kill them.

george bauer
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:11:18 EST
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Literature
              Pietrzyk" at Dec 11, 92 11:28 am

Gail M. Pietrzyk writes:
>
> Is this list still active?  I haven't seen anything on it for quite some
> time now.
> I wonder if anyone here knows if there might be a listserv on Central
> European literature?  Or perhaps people on MidEur-l would like to take up
> the topic.
> I would be interested in hearing suggestions of works by Central European
> authors - I've been reading quite a few, but am always glad to learn of new
> ones.

            I know of no list specifically devoted to EE literature.
It would be a welcome change from the usual political debate on Mideur
if you opened the topic.  However, to mix politics with literature, is
it not remarkable that writers and theatre people were so much of the
leadership in the Velvet revolution?  I do not think it was so in
Poland (Trade union leaders), Hungary (politicians); or the Baltic
republics (everybody).   This was also true in the CSSR in  1968.
   why writers???
      Does it have anything to do with talent?? I am told that Havel's
plays are really not very good as literature, and that his reputation
is based on his moral posture rather than his literary one.



    Jan George Frajkor       _!_
 School of Journalism       __!__
 Carleton University,         |
 Ottawa, Ontario             /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6           /^\   /^\
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:52:27 GMT
From:         Moss Madden <JU39@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: More books and films

On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:46:02 EST Ed Haupt (haupt@NET.NJIN.PILOT) said:

>I think there are further reasons for the EC's caution.  Economic integration
>is a difficult item for the EC at the present time, and much in the EC seems
>to be done by consensus.  Thus, the Greek support for Serbia would create an
>open rift if the majority were to move.
>
>A removable but serious danger has been created by the Serbian threats to the
>UN troops there.  Most UN troops are conscripts and unlike the mercenary
>French Foreign Legion,

What about the British Army? That ain't conscript either


 do not accept death as a normal part of their service.
>Military interventions and losses would probably be difficult politically.
>
>Ed Haupt (just some more opinions)

Moss Madden
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Date:         Sun, 27 Dec 1992 12:24:46 EST
From:         Ed Haupt <haupt@PILOT.NJIN.NET>
Subject:      Request for information about archives

In order to apply for fund for a proposal, I would like to have addresses
for the following archives.

For archives, I am seeking addresses, preferably e-mail, for these
archives.

1) records concerning G.E. Mueller, who was Ordinarius for Philosophie
at Goettingen from 1881 to 1919 and active after that, until the 1930s.
All of these records would be part of the Preussische Innenministerium,
and I think have been kept in Merseburg, part of Brandenburg.

2) further records for G.E. Mueller, who was Ordinarius for Philosophie
for 1 year (1880-1881) at Tchernowsky (Cernauti, Chernovtsy), now I
think part of Moldavia, but was it Austria-Hungary at that time? and
where are the archives.

Edward J. Haupt
snail:                                    voice: 1(201) 893-4327
Department of Psychology               internet: haupt@pilot.njin.net
Montclair State College                  bitnet: haupt@njin
1 Normal Ave.
Upper Montclair, NJ 07043-1624
                      USA
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:06:24 EDT
From:         Hugh Agnew <AGNEWHL@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Books and Films Suggestions

In reply to Henry Kucera's request, but since it may be of wider interest,
I'll send to the list:

First, the film:  a film version of Artur London's book The Confession,
with the same title, directed by Costa-Gavras, with Yves Montand and
Simone Signoret.  Should be more-or-less widely available among foreign
films in video rental/purchase shops?  Supposed to be quite accurate, at
least in giving the "feel" of things....

Second, distributors:  I suggest you try to contact Facets Video, a Chicago
based outfit which specializes in real cinema, from all over the world, and
distributes in different ways, rental, sale, etc., but at cost margins,
not profit markups.  I had GWU purchase Klos & Kadar's "Shop on Main Street"
from them a year ago.  Henry, the next time I'm in the office, I'll get their
800 number and send it to you.

A guid New Year ta ane an' a'!  [pardon me slipping into my "ethnic" dialect!]

Hugh Agnew
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Date:         Fri, 25 Dec 1992 10:29:38 PST
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      More books and films

 Gottfried Mayer-Kress writes:

>Re: Books and Films (Stop it !)

Try "Nasty Girl." A film about how contemporary Germany deals with its
Nazi past. Like Gottfried says, movies in color is the only thing that
has changed since "those days."

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
From: haupt@PILOT.NJIN.NET (Ed Haupt)
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Subject: Re: Request for information about archives
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:26:54 GMT
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Thanks---

The Tschernowsky city I want appears to be a city that was in the
Austro-hungarian empire, was given to Romania after WWI, and then
became part of the USSR, and is now probably part of the republic of
Moldavia.  When the Uni was established, it presumably had a German-
speaking faculty, which accounts for G.E. Mueller.

Any suggestions?

        Ed Haupt
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