From: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gayla Ann Greis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: choosing sides
Date: 13 Dec 1992 18:19:54 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: greis@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1gd7rcINNa5f@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>, by jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes):
> In article <1992Dec12.090646.6707@netcom.com> lunatic@netcom.com 
> (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex) writes:
>>    /-\fter seeing all this flak, though, it's not too likely that
>> I'll be sticking around again for that much longer.  This newsgroup
>> has proven itself consistently to be a great sinkhole full of
>> negativity, flames, and prejudice.  The Apple II community should
>> be doing its best, right now, to pull together and have everyone
>> help each other.  Instead, here all we get is petty bickering.
>> Come on, people, I'm sure you can all do better than that.

> I hope you don't let the noise in the signal get to you.  There is a whole
> lot of junk on the net, this is true.  But there are also a lot of people
> with a lot to contribute who can't/won't get for-pay services such as 

Yesterday, as I sat in Marc Wolfgram's dungeon that he calls a basement, I had
the opportunity to peruse over the Foundation updates that were being sent out.
It was really kind of funny, because with the exception of a few, I knew almost
everyone on the list. Marc and I talked about this, and how "dreadfully small"
the Apple II development community has become.
 
This leads to an interesting point -> Why?
 
Most of the more intellegent people here KNOW that a 16 year old platform isn't
just killed by a parent and it goes away. There are too many existing machines
on the market to ignore one of the largest user bases in history as trivial. So
it must be something else.
 
Perhaps it is the fact that a year after GNO's release, there are still people
on the Usenet Comp.Sys.Apple2 (.Gno) groups asking "What is GNO?" We might be
having an exposure problem. OK, so that's one thing.
 
But perhaps it is that those who do know are cynical of any progress yet to be
made. Why is this? Why should Joe Schmoe (not Kohn btw) care if yet another gs
program is released even if it isn't exactly what he wants? Why would it
rightly bother someone in their right mind if Ian Schmidt and Tim Meekins
release MOD players in their spare time when JS isn't contracting with them for
large sums of money to do what he wants? And why should ANYONE go after someone
who is trying to help them with a flame thrower???
 
I've been here on the Inet for about 5 years now. I'm not on GEnie or AOL, and
I've only been keeping up on CSA2 for about 3.5 years of that time. But what
I've seen is a monumental amout of progress. Most of what has been achieved by
other platforms has been done in the way of new hardware, and new investments.
(There aren't too many 512K Macs out there doing fantastic things either you
know.) We've been pretty lucky that we've been carried along as long as we
have.
 
What do all of these things have to do with each other? Let me show you. 1) We
need to come togther as a team. If that means getting the word out to existing
owners of machines, or helping each other debug and test etc., we have to do it
together. 2) Members on a team are sure to have disagreements. Expect it and
get on with your life. If I listened to all the people who said I was an idiot,
I would never hear the hundreds more who claim that I'm on track and have a
good insight into the problem. 3) Each person on the team may have different
goals and ambitions. It is the coming together of these goals and ambitions
into a greater entity that should be the group goal, not the abolishment of
goals other than ones own to reach a mark faster. (Here's a good example as
long as I brought Ian into this. Megatracker. A soundsmith type program that
takes into consideration many of the MOD effects that he discovered while
certian unnamed people were telling him not to waste his time. Will we see it?
Dunno. Depends how PO'd he is at his cynics when he is done as to whether he
will recognize his "critics" (BIG difference) and "supporters" (And there are
lots of those.)) Had he been effectively squelched in his R&D phase, MT would
not be at all. 4) All the members of the team have to learn to be "critics" and
not "cynics." There is a big difference between MattD being *critical* and
Quack (RB who shall otherwise go unnamed) who are *cynical* offering no real
advice but taking issue to hear himself talk.
 
Its no secret that all of us are mortal. Myself included (although sometimes I
wonder (-:  ) All I can say Lunitic is that you hang in there. There are people
that care and will help offer solutions. (Notice how I didn't just say you guys
suck and then leave?) And that you continue to at least do what you feel
comfortable doing - even if its not in the Inet.
 
People, don't start killing off the members of our own team! Together we are
greater than any of us are apart. I PROMISE you that fact. Find the good within
the bad, and focus on that. If someone said "You suck because your really cool
game which has awesome play can't edit the 10 words that aren't in its
dictionary, then I would add that support, and release it to paid owners."
(Which BTW is what Kenrick said that he was planning to do.) Rather than
combating fire with fire and saying "Well you never paid anyway, so why should
I care what you have to say?" Noone can touch you if you're above all of that
crap. Trust me - I've had piles of flames that rival the BEST of them. But in
every pile I get support, and someone who has actual CONSTRUCTIVE input as
well.
 
Thanks for listening.
Daniel Gross (Vdub on #AppleIIgs)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2