From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: More Mutlu Misinformation regarding the Jews of Rhodes
Date: 19 Nov 1992 10:33:16 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic, in reality AT&T's very own Hasan B Mutlu) writes:

> Do you mean take "grep" so that I will be in the same state of
> mind at your grandfathers who massacred thousands of Muslim and 
> Jewish children, women, and elderly people?
>  
> Source: "THE JEWS OF RHODES" by Marc D.Angel and forwarded by the
>         Haham Rev. Dr. Solomon Gaon (New York 1978).

My grandfather was not alive in the 16th century. Further, my family is not
from Rhodes. Your own words below explain how Rhodes was under the Grand
Master / Knights/ Whoever and not under the Greeks. 

>   During the first few years of the 16th century, the wave of Christian
>   intolerance as seen in Spain and Portugal spread to Rhodes. The Grand
>   Master, Pierre d'Aubusson, called for the expulsion of the Jews from
>   the domains of the Knights of St. John. This decree probably surprised

Was the Grand Master, Pierre d'Something, Greek, Mutlu? 

>   The Council unanimously agreed that the Jews were to be expelled from
>   the island and all territories of the Order within 50 days. They were
>   given 40 days to sell their property. Furthermore, they were forbidden
>   to settle in Turkey lest they serve as spies against the Knights.

At least they were given 40 days to sell their properties. What were the
Greeks of Instambul given in the 1950's, Mutlu? Gasoline to torch their
properties? Were they allowed to sell them? 

If the Jews were in Turkey [sic, Mutlu, shouldn't that be the Ottoman
Empire (tm))?] who would they spy against? Themselves?

>   However, the edict stipulated that all Jews who accepted baptism could
>   remain in Rhodes. It also stated that all Jewish children would be
>   forcibly baptized, regardless of their parents' decisions. The Grand
>   Master then proceeded to have Jewish children baptized and brought up
>   at the public charge. Some Rhodian Jews converted under these pressures.
>   Others who could leave Rhodes were put on a ship to Nice, France.
>   A number were tortured and killed.>>

How's this different from the forced religion changes caused by the
angelic Ottomans (tm)? 

How having baptizing Jewish children and bringing them up was different 
from the 'devshirme', yennisari, whatever (i.e. gathering of children from
occupied lands) that the Ottoman Empire practiced for centuries?

>   <<For the most part, then, Jews and Christians lived as prosperous
>   minorities in the classical Islamic empires of the Umayyads of Damascus
>   and Spain and the Abbasids of Baghdad, preserving their religions and
>   freedoms within their own religiously-based communities and paying
>   a special poll tax called harac or cizye in return for the protection
>   of the Muslim rulers and exemption from military service while living

I believe Harac stood for HEAD TAX, i.e. tax that allows your head to
STAND...

>   with great comfort and prosperity. There were limitations, there were
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   some marks of discrimination, so that one could say that Jews and
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   Christians were not as equal as Muslims, but compared to the active
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   persecution to which Jews were subjected in the Christian lands of
>   Europe, the world of Islam was paradise for them [31].>>

Glad I lived the day to read this. 

So, Mutlu, could you explain:

    What were the "limitations?"

    What were the "marks of discrimination?"

    In what way the Jews were "not as equal as Muslims?"

    How much different was the treatment of Jews by the Ottoman Empire (tm)
    from the treatment of Greeks by the Ottoman Empire (tm)?

    Since Greece was under Ottoman Empire (tm) occupation, how come the
    Ottoman (tm) authorities did not do anything to stop the 
    alleged prosecutions?

And, of course, how come your original article is not posted in
soc.culture.jewish? Or any of the 1,000,000 articles you posted about
Greeks mistreating Jews in the 1600's? But they're posted in
soc.culture.yugoslavia and soc.culture.australia instead?

Eagerly a-waitin...

Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    "I don't want to make money,
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com                 I just want to read News..."

Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe