From: nobby@milton.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel and the diaspora
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:59:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov18.205954.26329
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <92323.0136152893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.001809.9737@u.washington.edu>,
>nobby@milton.u.washington.edu (Vitaly Shmatikov) says:
>>
>>In article <92322.1712442893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy
>><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>>References:
>>>                                                                             m
>><92304.1853132893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA><1992Nov2.143745.6279@cbnewsl.cb.att.co
>>> <92312.0400382893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <1e5c6iINNq11@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>
>>>

[... deletions and omissions ...]

>>>
>>>Whether they want to or not? So much for free will! this explains Israel's
>>>arrogant, patronising and coercive attitude towards Russian Jews and many    r
>>othe
>>> Jewish communities in the diaspora. Especially the policy of trying to
>>>eliminate the opportunity for Russian Jews to go anywhere but Israel
>>>
>>
>>I would be grateful if you could provide some sources for your last
>>statement. I left Russia not so long ago and I hardly felt any Israeli
>
>Canadian Jewish News 2 or three years ago reporting on a speech by
>Natan Sharansky in Montreal in which he criticised the Israeli government
>and North American Zionists for encouraging the implementation and tightening
>of US quotas on Russian Jews. Also the statements of various Russian Jews
>earlier in this string.
>
>
>>pressure let alone attempts "to eliminate the opportunity for Russian
>>Jews to go anywhere but Israel". Russian authorities couldn't care less
>
>Let's not forget "direct flights to Jerusalem" in the mid 80s, a tactic
>designed to prevent Jews from flying to Vienna and declaring themselves
>refugees so they could go to the US and elsewhere in the West. Also my
>father's personal experience. Being persuaded to sign a piece of paper
>by Israeli authorities being told only later that what he has done is
>sign away his refugee status giving him no choice but to go to Israel
>(my father couldn't read Hebrew and actually believed the Israeli official
>who lied to him about the meaning of the document he signed)
>

If I were you I would refrain from making statements like the above.
Not that I feel like developing a full-blown squabble but I can't help
noticing quite a few discrepancies. "Direct flights to Jerusalem"
(I assume you mean Ben Gurion airport in here) hardly existed before
1990-91. The overwhelming majority of Soviet Jews bound for Israel
arrived there via Bucharest and - to a lesser extent - Warsaw,
Nicosia, et cetera. I agree that these routes were designed with an
implicit goal to prevent the emigrants from defecting in Vienna.
However, if one was dead set on going to America or elsewhere he
still could go to Vienna absolutely unhindered by Mossad agents and
then proceed to Ladispoli. This business was fully functional up
to late 1989 / early 1990 when INS wound up its facilites in Rome
and gradually transferred them to Moscow. 

Perhaps Israel felt uneasy about it. It's quite possible and I tend
to agree that this might be the case. But the talk about "coercion"
and "pressure" is totally inappropriate. IMO, there is a difference
between mild Zionist propaganda and actual use of force to make
people move to Israel.

The last point: I sympathize your father who was diddled out of
his right to live where he wishes. I also must note that all
immigration documents for the Russian olim are bilingual.

Shalom!

Nobby
nobby@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish