HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: help...Ecolinking book?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 02:09:32 GMT
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: flannery@unl.edu's message of 17 Jan 93 00:09:19 GMT

> I'm new to this info newsgroup and I would like to know more
> about BBS and newsgroups that contain environmental news...
> and how to access them.

=o= This newsgroup (sci.environment) is nominally for the
discussion of the science in environmental issues.  It's not
supposed to be a political/flamefest discussion group.

=o= The talk.environment newsgroup is the political/flamefest
discussion group.  It's also one of the forums that I post
various news items (e.g. press releases from Greenpeace, or
articles from the New Liberation News Service) and action
alerts into.

=o= If you don't want to deal with all the flaming there, I
cross-post the same items in misc.activism.progressive, which
is a moderated newsgroup that works more like a magazine than
a radio talk show.

=o= Tom Gray posts wind energy news items into sci.energy
from time to time.

=o= The alt.politics.greens newsgroup isn't about environmental
issues _per_se_, though the Green Party and Green Movements have
a strong environmental component.

=o= There's a set of mailing lists where environmental informa-
tion is passed around, called the Student Envirolink Network.
For info, send mail to env-link@andrew.cmu.edu.

=o= A rich source of environmental information is EcoNet.  You
have to pay to subscribe to EcoNet, but it is the best source
of this info available.  Send mail to support@igc.org for
details.

> Does anyone have the info book "Ecolinking" by Don Rittner...
> would this be a good source to explain network services.

=o= I've seen it, but I've never read it.  I have my hands full
just keeping up with the Internet.  I believe it mentions things
like CompuServe and America OnLine.  Both are hooked up to the
Internet, and I've seen press releases from the latter posted
to some of the newsgroups mentioned above.
    <_Jym_>
From: bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Another ozone question
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:43:03 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's College of Maryland
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
X-XXMessage-ID: <A78C18769E0201D2@williams.smcm.edu>
X-XXDate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:46:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.015316.13546@cs.rochester.edu> Paul Dietz,
dietz@cs.rochester.edu writes:
>But is this true?  The characteristic time for the oxygen in the
>atmosphere to be regenerated (by burial of organic matter in seafloor
>sediments) is currently a few million years.  After the dissolved
>reduced metals in the ocean had been oxidized, why couldn't the oxygen
>content of the atmosphere increase on a similar timescale?

Wouldn't it depend on the global rate of photosynthesis, arguably much
lower during the early
evolution of photosynthetic organisms?
___________________________________
William E. Williams, bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu
Divison of Natural Sciences and Mathematics
St. Mary's College of Maryland
St. Mary's City, MD 20686
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Greenpeace's alternative refrigerant
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:55:51 GMT
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <30584@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>Someone once said that a civilisation is doomed when most people
>haven't a clue how the technology they own and use every day works.
>The first stage of the decline is being ripped off by repairmen who
>overcharge for fixing it. The second stage is being swindled by
>repairmen who charge you and don't fix it. The third stage is giving
>up and buying a new one when the old one needs fixing. The fourth
>stage is making throw away products designed to be unfixable. And so
>on. And the root is simply poor education, monkeys in charge of a
>civilisation they don't understand.

You've been peeking into my dreams, haven't you? This is my recurring
nightmare. I see it in automobiles, where few people work on their cars
anymore. "They're just getting so complicated, you can't work on them."
Buzz! Just about anyone can do most of the work on his car. Oil changes,
belts, hoses, spark plugs & other related ignition parts. Fer cryin' out
loud, tuneups are a CINCH on today's cars compared to older ones. New plugs,
cap, rotor, & wires and you can slam the hood. And yet just last night a
friend of mine was AMAZED that I could show him how to do this on his 
'86 Honda. Truly amazed. You know, I have nothing against repair shops,
but to me taking your car in for an oil change or tuneup is like having
someone mow your yard or hiring a repairman to change a light bulb.

Learn how to fix your own stuff. Stay within your limits, and you'll do
better work than any pro, because you have a vested interest in the job.
--
Griff Miller > miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com < use this for email.

          *** My opinions are mine, not Western's. ***

   "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but 
    fools despise wisdom and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 
Newsgroups: sci.environment,soc.culture.usa
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: [car] how much costs car maintenance versus petrol
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:51:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan15.155804.2635@leland.Stanford.EDU>
chungdan@leland.stanford.edu writes: 

> ...

>     The best way is to use a car as little as possible.  So, use public
>transport.  (Another advise to wasteful Usonians.)


or ride a bike.

-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: The Real Challenge
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:35:07

Was our life impoverished by finding a substitute for the whale oil
used in lamps?

It is conceivable that we shall have to substitute
for high quality wood, which is indeed being rapidly used up.  More
likely, we will succeed in getting high quality wood from tree farms.
As long as there is plenty of grain, there is no problem with meat.
Should we need to devote the present grain land to producing food
directly consumed by humans, then we can use synthetic carbohydrates
and bacterial proteins to feed our cattle and chickens.  As for fish,
note that a substantial fraction of the salmon sold is already farm
raised.

As for the inspirational message, when the content is mistaken,
flowery rhetoric can't save the message.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: The Real Challenge
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1k1iraINNbm7@zephyr.grace.cri.nz>
Date: 24 Jan 93 14:14:48

You won't get a whole treatise out me.  I don't do this much work
for a newsgroup posting.

Are you arguing that without such a treatise, we should assume that
the problems cannot be solved?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: sci.environment,soc.culture.usa
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Cars and suburbs
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:31:28 GMT

In article <1jsuiqINN8it@morrow.stanford.edu> silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:
>	Uh, hunh. Yoder's babbling again. Exactly where and how does
>any government in America 'force people into trains'? By taking away
>tax monies from the (heavily subsidized) American highways and re-direct-
>ing them into public transit? I've yet to live anyplace where this is
>occurring. 

Silva is babbling again.  The "forcing" is by taxing auto users to pay
for transit that isn't worth what it costs.  That prices some folks
out of the market.  (It's a regressive effect, but that doesn't bother
environmentalists.)

If auto-use really was subsidized, the cattle-car transit folks would
try to redirect the subsidies.  They don't, because there aren't
subsidies to redirect, and they know it.  They redirect special taxes
paid by auto users, because that's the only money to grab.

Auto use does pay its way, and then some; that's the money that
transit folks go after.  Cattle-car advocates "forget" special taxes
paid into the general fund when they do their accounting.  They
compare special taxes that go directly to auto uses with the spending
on those uses, ignoring the auto taxes that go into the general fund.

Of course, cattle-car advocates have other problems with accounting.
When comparing autos to trains, they compare energy only.  (Sometimes
they don't even honestly do that, by comparing taxed energy for car
with tax-free energy for cattle-cars.)  There are other costs.

I particularly like some of the high speed train proposals.  Using
projected ridership, employee totals, and predicted capital costs, we
find that many of them can't possibly deliver rides for the price
promised even if said employees make only $10k year and there's no
maintenance or cost-overrun.

If you think cattle-car transit is such a great idea, build it with
your money.  If you're right, you'll have plenty of money to do good.
If you're not willing to take the chance that you're wrong with your
money, what justifies spending MY money on it?

-andy
--
Newsgroups: sci.environment,soc.culture.usa
From: dpeders1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Pedersen)
Subject: Re: Cars and suburbs
Reply-To: dpeders1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Pedersen)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:26:15 GMT

ddeocamp@pearl.tufts.edu (DANIEL M. DEOCAMPO) writes:
> Are there no realistic ideas for a mode of transportation which caters to the
> individual while avoiding serious environmental harm?  I raise the question,
> but have no clue about an answer.  Even solar cars have serious costs (mining,
> production, etc.).  

Why is it that every time transportation alternatives are discussed that
no-one _ever_ mentions bicycles?  Bikes are a viable, non-polluting method
which caters to the individual and increases fitness.  I'm not saying that
this is the answer for everyone, but there are plenty of people who could
take advantage of this solution.  Wider lanes, driver and cyclist education
on sharing the road, bike lockers in cities, lockers and showers for
employees, etc.  Utilizing the same routes for both cars and bicycles with
adaptations to accomodate both methods of transportation will minimize the
expenditure and increase the number of people biking to work, or using a
bike as  a method of transportation.

-->Daniel Pedersen  -  Keren's Daddy		(215)543-8961
	dpeders1@cc.swarthmore.edu	pedersen@engin.swarthmore.edu
======================================================================
Highway sign on I-10, AZ: "Federal Prison - Do Not Pick Up Hitch-Hikers"
	50 yards later: "Campground	Next Right"
"Why do you kill people?"   -   "I am a terminator."  [Terminator 2]

Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:50:35 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Constructive Posts and Bells of Hope
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <727680855snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au> gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>Perhaps fewer might choose active confrontation in the name of peace
>that there might be less confusion between an abstract ideal of peace,
>and peacefully doing things, as time goes by.
>
 
What a sentence!  Who has the Rosetta Stone handy?  Perhaps it suffered
in translation from some other language.  Sociology-speak?

--------
"What is written without effort is in general read without pleasure."
						-Samuel Johnson-


Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:21:58 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Constructive Posts and Bells of Hope
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <1993Jan20.222126.19053@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> 471-1@sleet.atmo.arizona.edu (E. Shane Jimerfield) writes:
>Actions and ideas of peace and peacful means are ALWAYS meet with
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

>hostility and/or violence.    
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This reflects a unique level of certainty, perhaps inclined to dogmatic.
What is the source of this wisdom?  Holy writ, perhaps?

Please remember the thoughts of George Santayana, who said, "Skepticism
is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too
soon or to the first comer..."

Perhaps the _inferred_ hostility (or violence...on Usenet?) is a
visceral reaction to the incondite.
From: oliveira@inm.uni-sb.de (Peter William Oliveira)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: test, no reply
Date: 23 Jan 93 17:41:18
Organization: Institute for New Materials (INM), Saarbr"ucken, Germany.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: inmsol.inm.uni-sb.de


Newsgroups: sci.environment,soc.culture.usa
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Cars and suburbs
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:04:10 GMT

In article <C1C08B.BBs@ccu.umanitoba.ca> yschin@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Yu-Shin Chin) writes:
>
>You still have spring, summer, and fall when the weather allows you to cycle to work.  Cycling does end when someone reaches 60 years of age.  I have heard of two elderly ladies (60+ and 80+) who were riding their bicycles across Canada.  I think that th>re are two big reasons why people don't cycle to work.  One is that they are 'lazy' and lead seditary lives(couch potatoes).  The second is that their workplace doesn't have proper shower facilities.  Oh and a possible third reason is that they are s

Bingo.  When I excercise, I sweat like a PIG, but I have to wear a coat and 
tie at the office. I TRIED cycling for excercise and to cu tmy gas bills.  I 
was not at an acceptable level of hygine for the day when I arrived.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: wandab@igc.apc.org (Wanda Ballentine)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Another ozone question
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:55:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1466602062:000:567
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!wandab    Jan 25 21:55:00 1993


I have a question I hope someone out there can answer.

The facts as I understand them:  The beginning of life on Earth
slowly evolved deep in the oceans, eventually creating oxygen
that bubbled to the surface and then floated up to the
stratosphere.  About 30 miles from the surface, ultraviolet
radiation acted upon it to create ozone, and ultimately there was
enough created to form a buffer between the UV rays and the
Earth.

Question:  As the UV rays were already bombarding the Earth, WHY
did the reaction with the oxygen not create ozone at the ground
level??
From: wilsonms@igc.apc.org (Wilson Middle School)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Climatic Change and Mussel shells
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:18:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1466602060:000:1081
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!wilsonms    Jan 25 10:18:00 1993


Paleoclimate Research With Freshwater Mussels.

My name is Keith Olive from Yakima, Washington 902 S.44th
Yakima, Wa. 98908.  509-454-5848

My 8th grade class is doing a major research project using freshwater
mussels (Margaritifera falcata).  We are comparing the growth rates
of modern specimens to prehistoric specimens so we can reproduce 
climate conditions of long ago.  We have access to specimens that are
7,000 years old.  We would like to obtain specimens from other regions
around the world to compare to our region.  They are found holarctically
so they should be in a variety of places.  If you know of an area with 
these mussels please contact us, our E MAil address is"wilsonms".  If
you would like more info about the project send us a note.  We'd love
to work with other areas in our study of paleoclimate and climatic
change.  

We would also like to add to our collection of freshwater mussels
from the world.  If you have shells from non-endangered species, we'd
love to recieve/trade shells.             Thanks,  Keith.

In case it matters respond on EcoNet.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: mueller@cage.eng.mcmaster.ca (Edna Mueller)
Subject: silver in the environment
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:38:24 GMT

First International Conference 
"Transport, fate and effects of silver in the environment"

University of Wisconsin-Madison

August 8-10, 1993

For more information contact:

Prof. Anders W. Andren, UW Sea Grant Institute, University of Wisconsin-
Madison, 1800 University Ave., Madison, WI 53705-4094
Tele:(608)262-0905

or 

Prof. James R. Kramer, Department of Geology, McMaster University,
1280 Main Str. W., Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, L8S 4M1
Tele:(416)525-9140 Ext. 4514
email:kramer@mcmaster.ca
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Evolution of the Atmosphere (Re: Another ozone question)
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:55:29
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<1993Jan27.175931.9409@cs.rochester.edu>
	<1993Jan27.175318.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu's message of Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:53:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.175318.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson) writes:

   In article <1993Jan27.175931.9409@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
   > In article <18183@umd5.umd.edu> bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams) writes:

    [concerning the evolution of atmospheric oxygen]

   >>Wouldn't it depend on the global rate of photosynthesis, arguably much
   >>lower during the early
   >>evolution of photosynthetic organisms?

   > Undoubtedly.  It would also depend on the rate of sedimentation, which
   > was arguably higher early in the history of the earth (when
   > radioactivity was higher, which might increase the rate of tectonic
   > activity), and on the rate of decomposition of seafloor organic
   > matter, which was argubly lower when the oceans were more anoxic.

    Yes to all of the above. 2 billion years ago the only O2 sources were
    photosynthetic bacteria and blue-green algae. Don't know what their
...

    One thing I don't know is whether there is any direct geochemical evidence
    for precambrian O2 levels, or whether they are inferred from the biology
    present at the time.

See Lambert&Donnelly "Global and Planetary Change" _97_ 83 1991
for review of geochemical evidence. Basically the answer seems
to be "yes" there is direct geochemical evidence for changing
O2 levels at the proterozoic-cambrian boundary.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
*  steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  If you ever have to go to Shoeburyness			*
*  Take the A-road, the ok road, that's the best!		*
*  Go motoring on The A13!	- BB 1983			*


Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: sdk@cci632.cci.com (Stephen Knight)
Subject: Re:  The Nature Conservancy
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:48:40 GMT

In article <8fLT96u00WB68KYGwZ@andrew.cmu.edu> "John B. Randolph" <jr4h+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
[ personal preference deleted ]

>Another potential problem is - what guarantee is there that this land will
>never be sold to some corporation?  Can an organization change their
>by-laws if it suits them in the future?  Will this land become the
>exclusive stammping ground for wealthy businessmen on the weekends?
>It seems to me that if all this land is purchased that it could be
>donated to the US Park Service under the condition that it is a designated
>wilderness - no roads, logging, mining etc.  Yet the Conservancy doesn't.
>As I said - I don't know whether there is *any* truth to this, but I
>inherently suspect any wealthy institution that seems too good to be true.
>Food for thought, at least.

  Why this touching faith in the US Park Service/Govt?  The fact is that once
Congress passes a law ordering the USPS to <fill-in-your-favorite-horror-
story-here>, they can do anything they want with your "designated wilderness".
Consider the attempts to get oil out of Alaska's "wilderness" areas 
(designated by law).  Our Government seems more likely to change their by-laws
than other groups (catch some of the discussions on the Drug War and its 
effects on the BillOfRights).
  I think that the Conservancy is doing the correct thing by _not_ giving
the land to the gov't (considering its record with "valuable" property), and
places the protected areas in no more danger than if they had donated it to
the gov't.

steve knight
sdk@cci.com
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Idiotic Japan Bashing
Date: 23 Jan 1993 02:15:33 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <30587@castle.ed.ac.uk>, cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.002834.27142@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>
>>For example, a 50 year hiring plan is
>>ridiculous for almost any company because you don't know what
>>functions will be automated over the next 40 years.
>
>A plan doesn't have to be set in concrete.

In that case, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A 50-YEAR PLAN.  You're talking about,
maybe, a 5-year plan, with an intent to switch to another 5-year plan later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: rich@astro.umd.edu (Rich Puchalsky)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Constructive Posts and Bells of Hope
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:04:40 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

I would like to join a constructive conversation on sci.environment.
Unfortunately the most common posters in this newsgroup have no
manners.

Can anyone post here how to create a kill file for authors using the
"rn" newsreader?  I realize that this is a bit off-topic, and might
be better asked in "comp.unix.questions", but this is the only 
newsgroup out of many that I read that I feel the need of a kill file for.
From: aquilanm@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Mark T Aquilano )
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: INTENTIONAL COMMUNITIES
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:10:18 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

I am interested in finding out more about the subject of "Intentional 
Communities" - like where are they forming, who is involved in creating 
these communities, etc.  Is there any place on the NET where inentional
communities are being discussed.  I'm using this word to describe any
neighborhoods or small communities which are created to be more environmentally
sustainable than the typical modern neighborhood/city (like more food self-
sufficient, energy/transportation self-sufficient), and more grounded in
community values.  I'd appreciate the info.

Mark Aquilano