HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: predrag@isy.liu.se (Predrag Pucar)
Subject: Re: USA - Croatia  103: 70
Reply-To: predrag@isy.liu.se (Predrag Pucar)
Organization: Dept of EE, University of Linkoping
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:15:39 GMT

In article <19395@plains.NoDak.edu>, CP6uH@plains.NoDak.edu (CP6uH) writes:
> In article <Bs2q1B.6u8@ecf.toronto.edu> blazic@ecf.toronto.edu (BLAZIC Joseph R) writes:

> Hm. I think that Drazen&Aleksandar Petrovic and Tony Kukoc have some Serbian
> blood though I am not sure. Anyway, does anyone have a complete list of the
> players for Croatia?

No, I'm sure Toni Kukoc is a Croat.

> Nik
> P.S. actually there are no Croats on the Croatian team - they are either
> Serbs or Dalmatians ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Or both :-)

-- 
/Predrag      email: predrag@isy.liu.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.CA>
Subject: Re: Serbian language
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:31:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.221748.29248@athena.mit.edu> dmatic@athena.mit.edu (Davor
>In article <22JUL92.18468858.0192@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.C
>>In article <1992Jul22.043659.15756@talon.ucs.orst.edu> neven@halibut.ECE.ORST.
>>>
>>>Here are some ije/je/e examples that Serbs don't have to worry about.
>>>
>>
>>Hm, Serbs *DO* have to worry about these things, because as I said
>>earlier, the Serbian language can also come in the "ije" form.
>>If you take any original edition of a book by Ivo Andric, you will
>>see that he uses it. Andric is undoubtebly a Serbian writer.
>>The "ije" dialect is also spoken throughout Montenegro. Read
>>"Gorski Vijenac" (not "venac") by P.P. Njegos.
>>These are not "imported" dialects, but authentic versions of the
>>language spoken by Serbs in Montenegro,Bosnia,Hercegovina,Lika...
>>
>
>Those are exactly imported dialects, since they are spoken by the
>Serbs outside of Serbia.

"Since they are spoken by S. outside Serbia?", does that mean
that Hungarians outside Hungary speak a different language?
Your sentence suggests that language (a cultural category) and
the State (a political category) are indivisible.
I don't think you can draw a line in the sand and say: "OK, people
on this side speak this and people on the other speak that!" ;-)
You might think I'm oversimplyfing, but that is how I understood
your sentence.

>They have mixed and assimilated with the
>dialect from the surrounding Croats.  The authentic language they
>spoke was Serbian at one time.

So, what is it today?

> As far as Monte Negro goes, it is
>a whole new dispute how much Serbian Monte-Negrians really are :-)
>

Yes, it is a whole new dispute, but I wasn't talking about their
nationality, but the fact that they speak the Serbian language,
which is in the "ije" form.

>>
>>And a question: is the verb then, "prenositi" or "prijenositi"
>>in Croatian...?
>>
>
>I think it's "prenositi".
>BTW, it was never considered to be a good style mixing Cortian
>and Serbian literary forms where I went to school.  You either
>speak "ekavski" or "ijekavski".  It's quite easy to be consistent
>about that.
>

I remeber this example vividly, and I was taught that while we
speak "ijekavski", there are differences from Croatian, such
as "prijenos"-"prenos" -- I wasn't "mixing". Very few people, in
Sarajevo at least, will tell you "prijenos utakmice..." ;-)

Ultimately, I am by no means trying to deny the existance of a
distinct, Croatian literary language, but I'm trying to make a
point that in some cases, the "rigid" definitions of the Croatian
and Serbian languages do not apply easily.

>>Regards,
>>George Bogavac

P.S. I have to correct myself: Earlier I wrote that Andric wrote
     "ijekavski". Actually, he wrote "ekavski", except in his
     "early period". I was thinking about Mesa Selimovic. Sorry ;-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: neven@orca.ECE.ORST.EDU (Neven Orhanovic;737-3448;;757-1803;halibut)
Subject: Re: Serbian language
Organization: Oregon State University - Univ. Computing Services
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:14:24 GMT

In article <21JUL92.12161453.0212@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> K2GT@UNB.CA (George Bogavac) writes:
>
>The language spoken in the majority of ex-YU republics (Croatia,
>Bosnia-Herzegovina,Montenegro & Serbia ) is essentially the same
>language, meaning that people from these republics can communicate
>without any problems. There are different dialects, and some
>differences in vocabulary, but again, these differences are minor.
>The grammar (including spelling) is the same.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is not true. Please have a look at the Croatian orthography
(Babic, Finka, et al.) originally published in 1971 but banned
during communist rule. (It was carefully written (watered down) 
not to offend Serbian "friends", but was still banned.)
It will dispute your claims.

Regards,
Neven

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: George Bogavac <K2GT@UNB.CA>
Subject: Dark Humor
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:54:03 GMT

This is an example of how even in the worst of times, sometimes
the human spirit remains intact:

Yesterday, I managed to get trough to Sarajevo (phone),and do
you know how the residents call the city today...?

"GRAD PROMASENIH LJUDI"    ( <-- somewhat hard to translate )

If it wasn't tragic, it would be funny.

George Bogavac.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: ibenko@neumann.waterloo.edu (Igor Benko)
Subject: Re: Ljubljana
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:26:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.135331.21011@watson.ibm.com>, jec@pilatus.zurich.ibm.com (Jean Cherbonnier) writes:
> I would like to spend a few days in Ljubljana and visit the
> city. Is it safe ? What are the main thing to visit ?
> 
> Thanks.

I tried to send you an e-mail to jec@pilatus.zurich.ibm.com but the
mail came back, host unknown. Is there another address ?

Igor
From: CP6uH@plains.NoDak.edu (CP6uH)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Serbian language
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:35:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19298
Organization: University of North Dakota at Grand Forks

In article <22JUL92.18468858.0192@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> K2GT@UNB.CA (George Bogavac) writes:

>Regards,
>George Bogavac
>
>P.S.
>
>Somebody told me that a lot of people from Zagreb speak "ekavski"
>as a "local slang". Is that true?


kinda - they are the source of the 'satrovacki'... there is a nice joke about
Bruce Lee in Zagreb... he got beaten... when a friend of his asked him WHO
did it, Bruce said 'I dunno, but I did remember one name, they were shouting
it all the time - "stipuga nime"'... ;)

Nik

P.S. trends in Belgrade in the late 1990 (right before I left BG) was to
speak 'Croatian' - using words like 'chuj stari' or 'ma ni za tisucu dolara'
and alike... ;)
--
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Steroid (and more)
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:10:37 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.220824.32477@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> exl0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Edwin X. Li) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.103411.17912@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, huangzh@bronze.ucs.i
>ndiana.edu (Andy Huang) writes:
>(stuff deleted)
>
>it seems to me a little bit silly to be so angry over this whole
>blow-ha-ha. a medal is a medal. until proven taking drugs, they
>remain champions. even ben johnson kept his gold medal for several
>days. as for american media, they've been known for their hypocricies.
>a prime example is american football. the wide spread use of drugs
>is a common knowledge for years. not until one or two
>famous formal stars are dying, the media is usually hush-hush.
>the bottom line is people enjoy the sport (including me). in this
>case, i rooted for those chinese girls and am happy for their
>medals. i believe there are some chinese athletes taking drugs. so
>are some americans and athletes from other countries. unless
>htere is a major changing of rules concerning drug testing, i guess
>this is the way of life. forget about what the commentators say.
>just grab a beer and stretch your legs and enjoy the game.

I like this attitude. Don't be annoyed by the media, just relax and
enjoy it. As far as them have the good medals, it is fine. Let the judge
to worry about the steriod stuffs.

Tingli Pan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:21660 rec.sport.olympics:1953
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,rec.sport.olympics
Subject: Re: Proud and Angry
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:13:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1992Jul30.205133.25160@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> aksimha@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Arun Simha) writes:
 >    The American athletes are not supported by *foreigners* like in previous
 >    Olympics, because of the stupid media.
Not completely, but see below.
 >    e.g., "The dream team will show the world that basketball belongs to
 >    the Americans." Costas made this caustic comment and immediately the
 >    dream team lost a few supporters.
Well, if he had this comment he can have it and stuff it.

I am not waiting for a lot of games were it is known a priory who will win
and the only question is what the difference will be.  This is especially
the case with the dream team.  For the same reason I only like the finals
of the European baseball championship.  You know beforehand when the
Netherlands or Italy plays against another team who will win.  Some
competition is required.  (This is also one of the reasons I do not
particularly like sports that require a jury.  In many cases it is only
the whim of the jury that tells me who wins, not my own observation.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland
dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Mao vs. Deng (get thee questions cleared first)
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:00:53 GMT
Reply-To: jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato)
Organization: University of Melbourne

In article <2A6DD0CD.10313@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes:
|> 
|> It seems there is no common ground for this group to comment/evaluate Mao.
|> So, let's get these questions cleared:
|> 
|> 1. Question to Steven Lin:
|> 
|> 1.1  Do you think that KMT could be defeated by Mao's own two arms and two 
|>      legs?  If yes, then, Mao is at least a magic man; if "no", then:
|>      why so many people (Chinese) were willing to help Mao to kill KMT?

Then you should ask yourself, why people like you want to support Mao?

|> 1.2  If the Old China is better than New China, why KMT was not able to 
|>      defend their Hao(good)Guang(light)Jing(scene)?
|>      If the New China is worse than Old China, why the Chinese people did not
|>      get together to kill CCP, just like they used to get together to kill KMT?

Without the Japanese invasion, I don't think CCP would have lasted. CCP has learnt
better lesson to kill millions of people and to control them, by far "better" than
KMT.

|> 1.4  what is the difference between China and Taiwan island?  China is a big
|>      country with 1.2 billion people, Taiwan's population is similar to 
|>      Shanghai, a city in CHina.  To manage such a big China, the most important
|>      thing is to have those 1.2 billion people believe something and believe
|>      what they are doing.  Mao did a good job on this, but Deng Xiaoping 
|>      completely does NOT know what he is doing--that's why Mao got lots of 
|>      things done without money, and Deng cannot get some things done with 
|>      money.  Do you agree?

You asking them to believe in destroying thousand years of culture will solve
the problem? At least Deng knows that getting more money will solve part of 
the problem.

Lin Can
=========================================================================
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--. . - ... -. --- - .... .. -. --.   .-.. .. -. -.-. .... .- -.
=========================================================================
From: yding+@pitt.edu (Yijun Ding)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Give Me a Break: China to Buy Ford Tempos from U.S.
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:52:22 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul30.174436.21588@rigel.econ.uga.edu> jialin@dogwood.botany.uga.edu writes:
>>I used to be a used-car buyer ;-)
>
>You mean you are not now. Really sorry for you.

Why? My wife and me both drive new cars now :) We have yet to experience
American cars though.

-- 
//Yijun Ding, Pittsburgh //
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,rec.sport.olympics
From: lug@oak.ppc.ubc.ca (Guoqiano Lu)
Subject: Re: Proud and Angry
Organization: University of B.C. Pulp & Paper Centre
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:24:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.074057.18394@midway.uchicago.edu>, rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
|> ............................................................................................................
|> I agree that they tend to be a bit reserved in comparison
|> to the Americans, but so do a lot of the European performers -- a friend
|> of mine was saying about the nineteen-year-old Russian gymnast almost
|> exactly what you've been saying about the Chinese, and I didn't see it
|> there either. I think in both cases, it tends to be the reserve of more
|> formal manners than Americans are used to, combined with a bit less
|> ease when TV cameras are shoved in their faces, which I suspect does
|> not happen to them as a general rule as often as it does with the U.S.
|> athletes. So you have to get to know them a bit, instead of getting a
|> hyped-up grin as soon as they're finished with an event; I consider it
|> well worth it.
|> 
|> >a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
|> >Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
|> 
|> 	-Nora

Good point!  Chinese athltes are a bit reserved just as Americans aren't: Chinese athletes 
needn't bother to behave like Americans and vice versa. Enjoy the game.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: Zhi Cheng Zhu <u9112081@cc.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Looking for Liu Ying Xi from No 6 high school Canton
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 11:08:10 EST

Dear big brother,

Where are you.
I am Zhu Zhi Cheng.
Did you remember 'Luo Jun Feng'
From: yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)
Subject: Mao vs. Deng (Re: incident)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Organization: Netix Communications, Inc.
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:27:04 GMT

No, Mao is NOT a destruction oriented person.  Mao established a country, which
is called as "New China".  Weather this "New China" is better or worse than 
the "Old China" should be another issue, but only blinds cannot see the
difference between "Old China" and "New China".  Mao is aggreesive and full
of HuanXiang (illusion?).  

Deng Xiaoping is a kind of manager type person.  If someone already founded a
company such as the "P R China Corporation", he can work as a manager at this
corporation.  In other words, if Mao did not exist, and if Chiang Kai-shek 
still were the emperor of China and keep doing the corruptive things, Deng
Xiaoping will *definately* NOT be able to destroy Chiang Kai-shek to establish
a different China.

Mao is a senior politician, Deng is a "tech"-politician.  Mao knew how to 
control his people, Deng knows how to cheat his people.

But, please be advised that we have millions of qualified personnels to work 
as the manager of "P R China Corporation".  Let alone myself, most of the SCC
readers can handle a better job than Deng.

Also, please ask yourselves a question: why the Chinese seldom (almost never)
support the real genuine people to be their "emperors"?

shannon
-------
From: ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU (IFCSS HQ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: IFCSS HQ SR-4025: Sample Letter for Chinese Students
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:22:54 GMT


**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters Special Report No. 4025       July 30, 1992
               Sample Letter for Chinese Students
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu


                Sample Letter for Chinese Students
                ==================================

Dear IFCSS Members:

     The following is a sample letter for Chinese students.
It is written by Shi Heping of Virginia Tech.
-------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Date

Honorable ----------
Address

Dear Congressman (woman) ___:

We are writing to ask that you lend your support to the 1992 
Chinese Student Protection Bill (S1216, which is pending in the House.

We still remember and remain grateful to the concern shown by the
Congress to Chinese students in the wake of the "June 4th Massacre,"
an event that led many of us to stand up for democracy in defiance
of potential reprisal and persecution. The protection for Chinese
nationals later provided by the President's Executive Order was, in
a great degree, the result of Congressional effort.

More than three years have passed since the brutal crackdown in
1989. Tremendous changes have taken place around the world. The
Chinese government, however, has remained recalcitrant and
consistently demonstrated its determination to resist the
historical tide of democracy. The Chinese people are still
deprived of basic human rights, thousands of political prisoner
are languishing in dark cells, and recently, Bao Tong, top advisor
to former Communist Party General Secretary Zhao Zhiyang, was
sentenced to seven years of imprisonment because of his alleged
involvement in the democracy movement of 1989.

This being the situation, we cannot but feel apprehension at the
prospect of returning to China upon the expiration of the current
presidential protection, which is to be January 1, 1994. Therefore,
once again we turn to you for help. Please vote "Yes" on ___ (bill
number).

Thank you.

(signed)

***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Tingli Pan)
Subject: Re: Time: China has only 60 swimming pools
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:17:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.184156.771@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>
>According to the latest issue of Time magazine. China the whole nation
>has only 60 swimming pools. Is this a joke or truth? It certainly 
>doesn't fit my experiences. China has more than 1000 colleges and 
>universities, majority of whom should have a swimming pool just to 
>support the phyisical education classes. Most cities have more than
>5 swimming pools for public uses ( I know Lanzhou does and There are
>more than 30 cities at the same level as Lanzhou). The author was 
>full of ignorance and prejudice in the article. It's a typical cold
>war mentality kind of article. It claims that the Chinese athletes
>are state-sponsored while forgetting the U.S athletes are privately
>sponsored. The only difference is the source of sponsorship while
>the fundamental objective and results are the same. It claims the 
>kids are taken away from  their parents (forced) while the truth of
>the matter is that in almost all the cases the parents AND the kids
>willingly want the organized training. It claims that the athlets
>are illiterate where as the matter of the fact is that the atheletes
>still have regular grade school classes and they are no less illiterate
>than their U.S. counterpart.
>
You are right. It IS a hostile article.

>Anyway, I think its a shame that a magazine like Time would publish
>pieces of crap like this. All concerned should write to Time to 
>correct this not-so-negligible error. 
>
That is the trick of media. The bias is hidden in the words.

>More comments are welcome! 
>No Flames, please!
>:wq
>
Tingli Pan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: dh5m@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Donghai  Huangfu)
Subject: Re: The regretful thing for Zhou Enlaiex
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:53:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.125602.4708@gw.wmich.edu> 31he@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>Hi:
>	I strongly disagree what Yunjing said about Zhou En lai, I don't think
>anyone could ever have the right just throw some irresponsible statements to
>such a great man. 
>
>	During the Culture Revolution, it is Mr. Zhou who tried his best to
>turn back the disaster caused by Mao and his followers. In order to do this, he 
>give up a lot of things, he suffer a lot of things, he risk a lot of dangers
>too. However, it is because of his effort, so many hign tech projects can still 
>keep running, so many high educated knowledgeble experts survived to contribute
>to the country. 


Is he the head of Zuan1 an4 zu3 (investigation group?) of Liu2 Shao4Qi2 ?

>
>	His unselfishness, his devotion to the contry, his altruism, his elgent 
>manner, his easygoing with ordinary people, his care to his people, his great 
>virtue, once gone and forever, he is still beloved by all of his people and
>admired by the whole world. 
>
>        I am sure what happent on June 4th is not what he want to see, and Li
>Peng's behavior is not his responsibility any more since he is an adult
>already. I don't think anyone could ever say something like this with no
>evidence to a great man like him again.
>
>
>Sincerely 
>Xiaoxia 
>
>
>
>
>>> Does Mr Zhou really deserve so much respect from Chinese?
>
>>>    shannon
>>>    -------
From: ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU (IFCSS HQ)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: HQ SR-4020: Call Chairman of Judiciary Chairman
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:56:09 GMT


**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters Special Report No. 4020       July 29, 1992
          Please Call House Judiciary Comm. Chairman
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu

              Call House Judiciary Comm. Chairman
              ===================================

Dear IFCSS Members:

       Until now, the Rules Committee has not received
the request from the Judiciary Committee to take actions
on the protection bill. The request has to come from the
Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. So our work now is
to focus on him.
 
       Chairman of the Judiciary Committee
       Jack Brooks, Democrat, Texas, 9th District, 
       Tel. 202-225-6565  
       Fax  202-225-1584

       Ask him to send the request as soon as possible.

       If you call other Judiciary members, as we stated
in previous reports, thank them for their support in the
Judiciary Comm. and ask them to continue support the bill
when it comes to the Whole House.

       Congressman John Conyers, Jr. who attempted to
attach his Hatian amendment to the Protection Bill should
also receive some attention. Call his office as 202-225-5126
and ask him not to attach Hatian amendment which is 
IRRELEVANT to the Protection Bill. (He is from Michigan).

       Students in Detroit may visit the local office
of Congressman John Conyers, Jr. Address:

       Congressman John Conyers, Jr. 
       District Office
       Room 669, Federal Bldg.,
       231 W. Lafayette BLVD., 
       Detroit, MI 48226-2766

       Tel. (313)961-5670
       Fax  (313)226-2085

       (Visits and messages to the district office will
be sent to his office in D.C. You will have the same
effect.) If you have American friends who are willing
to help, it would be much better to let them call or
visit the office. They are VOTERS. Their words count.



       Thanks for your cooperation.

***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
.