HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: buyan@aero.org
Subject: Re: Hiking in Southern California and Baja in February
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:45:40 GMT

In article <15269@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA> scsykes@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (scsykes) writes:
>From: scsykes@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (scsykes)
>Subject: Hiking in Southern California and Baja in February
>Date: 21 Jan 93 21:30:27 GMT
>I'll be in San Diego from Feb.6 to Feb.27 and hope to do 
>some hiking there. I'm looking for both day and overnight
>trips.
>I expect I'll also be making a trip down to the Baja - just
>into southern Baja near Muleje/Mulege(sp?).
>Any info anyone could provide or to simply point me somewhere
>for info would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Post or e-mail - either - both - whatever.
>
>-Jack

Suggest sections of the Pacific Coast Trail which runs from the Mexican 
border north.  The California edition of the PCT book is available from many 
outdoor stores.  It gives detailed trail maps, directions, distances, 
elevations, and water and trail camp info.

Jon
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: davide@sequent.com (Dave English)
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 15:53:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.233243.26965@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:

[...deleted...]

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Twit twit twit                                                           
>Jug jug jug jug jug jug                                                   
>So rudely forc'd.                                                         
>Tereu                                                                     
>  --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land                                            
>..............................................................................
>s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)               Prov. 25.2
>University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
>National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would Royal R. write this about Warren H. --

Tap Tap Tap
Jug jug jug jug jug jug
So rudely forc'd
WotEML.

?  :-)

  David English          davide@sequent.COM         Unix System Programming
  (503) 578-4569        uunet!sequent!davide       Sequent Computer Systems
From: mike@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Spuds McNelly)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: how do you feel about large groups (was Re: Redwood National Park)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 16:44:29 GMT
Organization: SWT
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: trout.fc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

John Grant (jagrant@emr1.emr.ca) wrote:
: In article <7276@prudence.cs.nps.navy.mil> shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall) writes:
: >I am considering Redwood National Park (Northern coast of California)
: >as a location for a backpack trip this summer.  Our group consists of
: >approximately 20 youth (7th-12th grade) and adults (30s-40s).  We're
: 
: I don't want to focus on this individual or his plans, but
: I'd like to bring up another subject for discussion here
: if I may...
: 
: How do you feel about large groups (i.e. > 5 people) in the
: backcountry?
: 
: Personally, I feel that there should be a limit in the size
: of groups, perhaps no more than 5 (10 at the most).  Yes,
: the group and/or the group leader may be quite skilled.
: They may also be reasonably quiet.  Perhaps they possess
: and use low-impact camping skills.  In short, they can do everything
: 'right', according to the books, but they are still very
: visible as a large group.
: ...

Personally, I get tired of anyone trying to impose their view of what's
"right" on others via laws, rules, or social pressures.  If the sight of
a large group bothers you, go somewhere else.

I generally camp/fish/hike/etc.  alone or in a small group but I also
understand that others may have different tastes.  So long as they
aren't destructive or infringe upon the rights of others it just isn't
my business to tell them how to enjoy themselves.  Furthermore, I don't
think I'd enjoy living in a world of clones very much.  We ought to
celebrate diversity.

Mike McNelly
mike@fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: wbm@freedom.stanford.edu (Wally Mann)
Subject: Re: Groups of 1
Originator: wbm@freedom.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:15:03 GMT

Although for the most part I prefer being in a group (sometimes
really BIG groups ... I don't like size regulations ... but that's
another thread), I often hike alone.  I've been on several trips
where I was out for 10 days and two of them involved some measure
of risk while hiking off trail on steep terrain.

I disagree that one should necessarily do all those things that
one is supposed to do ... let others know where you are going, 
stay well within your limits, don't change plans, etc, etc.

I think it's a matter of choice and consequence.    There are so
many pressures today to remove risk from our lives and simultaneously
remove accountability.  We don't have to think about our own
safety.    Our world is constructed such that anything dangerous will
either flash red or be off limits.  IF something goes wrong, it's
someone elses fault and the ambulance will be here in 5 minutes.
Call 911.

Going alone for me is in part to really feel what it is like to
be accountable for my own well being.  I don't want to set it up
so that I feel the long, comforting arm there to protect me.  I
want a vacation from that.  And I don't want to get hurt either.
But I want that responsibility on my own shoulders for a change.
This isn't the only way to get that feeling, it's just the way
that I choose to do it.

I have also been in situations where friends and loved ones are
visibly upset at the thought of my putting myself at risk.  In
the past I've responded brusquely to what felt like inappropriate
mothering.  Now it's clear, like Hal pointed out, that my risk
is a risk for those around me.  At a deeper level, they aren't
concerned about me, but rather are reacting to a very real threat
to their own well being.  Even in friendship, my killing myself
impacts the other person negatively.  

So now I have a bit more compassion for what they go through.
And, I still want to do this.  It's important to me for whatever
reason.  So I have to ask my friends, essentially, to let me
have this.  To let me cut myself off from the safety net for
a while.   And I try to realize that my actions have impact
beyond myself.  (potentially including the local rescue team,
which I'm on)

Wally

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10463 rec.video:16329
From: chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.video
Subject: Outdoor Video/Photography
Date: 24 Jan 1993 18:06:53 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcsrc13.col.hp.com

  I would like to hear from people about what kinds of filtration, etc. are
needed on a camcorder when photgraphing outdoor scenes with alot of snow 
and glare.  I am a complete neophyte with regard to photography so any
advice would be helpful.

Thanks,
Chris Magnuson
chrism@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Heavy Weight Backpacking (was Re: Light We
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:09:50 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <lme3o1INNl76@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>>What are the unusual (and RARELY USED) items people carry when they
>>go *heavy* weight backpacking?  
>
>Steaks and Champagne (i.e., deluxe non-dehydrated fully-certified food!).

Here's a list of some not-so-fond memories of silly things I've carried
at least several miles in the backcountry.

  - a float tube (for fishing).
  - an inflatable kayak, life vest, paddle, pump, and repair kit
  - a 120 lb raft, life vests, paddles, pump, and repair kit
  - a gigantic first aid kit
  - 50lbs of climbing gear
  - lawn chairs
  - shotgun
  - many lbs of canned food
  - fresh potatoes 
  - cans of beer
  - bottles of wine
  - cans of fruit juice
  - my brother's cat (actually, he carried it, not me)
  - a guy with a broken ankle (actually, four of us carried him)
  - a bycicle (with a flat tire)
  - four or five books, of which I didn't read one
  - a pair of donhill skis boots and poles (on my back)
  - a scuba-diving suit

In contrast, on my first ever backpack trip I had just a few pieces
of clothing and some food, nothing else.  I was cold wet and miserable
for most of the three or four days, but learned something about natures
rhythms.  (The rain comes, and the rain goes.  The sun comes and the
sun goes.  Night comes and night goes.  And so on.)
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:14:28 GMT

In article <Jan26.234207.55670@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.221612.24457@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>
>>I have had more trouble with skiing injuries than all of climbing.
>>The velocity has something to do with it.
>
>As I see it, skiing is more likely to injure you (because of the velocity)
>whereas climbing is more likely to kill you (because of the velocity).

Actually it's not velocities you've got to beware of, 
it's the sudden negative accelerations (especially the ones cause by 
large immovable objects).


John S. Watson               watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
#include <stddsclm.h> 

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:44:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <11175@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>
>Actually, I would have a hard time calling bull fighting a sport.
>More a spectacle, a very obscene spectacle.  What it amounts to is

What would you nominate as the most injurious sport?  I say rodeo riding.

(Does rodeo belong in .indoor or .outdoor?)

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: evans@cs.arizona.edu (Richard C. Evans)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:05:12 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

>I have an Optimus 8R I picked up for $1 (yes, that's right), that has a
>built-in cleaning wire.  Could I use unleaded in this stove, and then rely
>on the self-cleaning wire for cleaning after clogging?
>

My first stove was an 8R. I once put auto fuel in it.  Imagine the sound of
a jet engine with some exotic waterfoul stuck in the intake.  Really, it was
horrible.  The thing sputtered, coughed and gummed up.  Stick with the 
white gas.

Rich Evans
From: dittmare@gtewd.mtv.gsc.gte.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Another MSR stove tip
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:35:25 -0800
Organization: GTE Govt. Systems, Electronics Def. Div.

I came up with the following idea.  I know it works for my WhisperLight and I'd
think it works for the International and XGK.

If you remove the hose and jet assembly, all that remains of the burner is
metal. Then you can use carbureter cleaner to remove all of the carbon deposits
without having to reassemble all them [sic] little zig-zag wafer doohickeys. 
The result is a burner that looks like NEW.

Enjoy,

Eric
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Seeking 1-person tent
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:10:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

Sorry to start another tent thread, but...

Now I've tried the goretex bivvy sack, and I think it sucks.
I must sweat too much for goretex.  When it doesn't rain the
bivvy sack gets wet on the inside.  And when it does rain, my
head gets wet.  Overall I don't consider the bivvy sack worth
its weight; a tube tent is better-- and 1/100 the price.

So I'm looking for a 1-person tent, for use on overnight kayak
trips.  I'm not interested in a "small 2-person tent" like the
Sierra Designs Flashlight, since on a kayak trip I don't want
anybody sharing my tent.  I do want something that is seriously
lightweight, storm-proof, bug-proof, and packs up small.  The
mosquito-screen head tent, made by some company up in Alaska,
would come close, if it only had a rainfly.
From: chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Himalayan Club?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 20:42:38 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: la.col.hp.com

  Does anyone know of an organization called the Himalayan club?  I 
have heard that such a club exists and they publish a newsletter.

  I would like to have their mailing address, if possible.

Thanks!
chris magnuson
chrism@col.hp.com
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Redwood National Park, CA
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:07:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I am considering Redwood National Park (Northern coast of California)
as a location for a backpack trip this summer.  Our group consists of
approximately 20 youth (7th-12th grade) and adults (30s-40s).  We're
thinking about hiking in the Redwood creek area, camping on the gravel
bars, and looking at an August 9-13 time frame.  I've talked with the
park rangers and they feel this is possible.

Does anyone have any experience with Redwood National Park (or with 
this trail)?  Any comments would be welcome at this point.  Please
email to me.
		Many thanks,
			Tim Shimeall
			shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil
From: alleyne@hera.ics.uci.edu (Brian D. Alleyne)
Subject: Royal Arch route in Grand Canyon
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Reply-To: alleyne@ics.uci.edu (Brian D. Alleyne)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:59:02 GMT
Distribution: na

Well, spring is on the horizon, and here I am planning my annual
Grand Canyon trip. I have permits for the Royal Arch/Tonto/South Bass
route in early April.

I've been studying the trail map, and there is a mention of a
20 foot rappel. Has anyone done this route before and can give me
more information on the route, especially the section that
contains the rappel? In particular, is there a stake in the ground
there, or something that can be used as a good anchor? How about
the possibility of going up that section? What sort of climbing
should I expect? Are there any other tricky spots that I should know about?

Are the sidetrips to Elves Chasm and up Garnet Canyon worthwhile?

I have contacted the Backcountry office in Grand Canyon, and spoke
to the ranger there. Can't say that he was particularly helpful.
Sort of said something to the effect that he cannot recommend routes
because if something were to happen there was the question of
liability. What is happening in this world?????


Thanks for any pointers.

Brian

-------------------------------------------------------------
   		alleyne@ics.uci.edu

           I hate this $&##*@ thesis!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------
--
Brian D. Alleyne
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: randrew@teton.UVic.CA (Rex  Andrew)
Subject: Boot Review wanted
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 22:56:54 GMT

I apologize in advance if this has been covered before -- I just started
reading this newsgroup.

I'm interested in a "medium weight" hiking boot heavy enough for several-
day backpacks, off-trail, and pleasant fourth class scrambles, but
not "heavy duty" mountaineering boots like Asolos, Merrills, etc. I suspect
this type of boot can be identified by its price range: $150 - $225 US$.

I was told that there was a review of such boots in an outdoor magazine
"not too long ago" -- which I take to be sometime in '92. Does anybody
know anything about this?

Thanks in advance.
Rex Andrew
randrew@sirius.UVic.CA

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha)
Subject: Re: Himalayan Club?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:29:48 GMT

In article <1jsajuINNbn@hp-col.col.hp.com> chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson) writes:
>  Does anyone know of an organization called the Himalayan club?  I 
>have heard that such a club exists and they publish a newsletter.
Yes, there is a organization called Himalayan Mountaineering Institute.
I was a student member until 1989. They train/teach climbing/backpacking
and organise numerous number of expeditions. Almost all Himalayan
mountaineers I know of were from this club. But, I am not sure if you 
can get their news letter from this country. I can try to find out. 
This will take some time thoough.

They have different chapters in different regions of India. 

>
>  I would like to have their mailing address, if possible.

later,

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Saumyen Guha
sguha@phoenix.princeton.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis)
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Organization: Precipitating Pendulums Postal Party Poopers
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 22:52:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.213706.21030@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>>In article <1jvm1aINN7r3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
>as376@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephen C. Ferguson) writes:
>>> Does anyone know anything about very! light weight back
>>> packing? I mean going into the woods for 1-2 nights with just
>>> 20 lbs or so.  I am not talking survival tactics quite, 
>
>Not carrying extras like climbing gear, getting water from creeks,
>even with a stove, summer, and a light bag, skipping a tent: sure.
 [ ... the usual ... ]

>Back in 1972, had a Mt. Whitney trip.  That was 14 pounds for three days.
>The thing you have to realize is that all that gear is mostly luxury
>like the Thermarest.  And none of this means resorting to survival gear.
>Intelligent use of limited gear and food in certain environments
>and conditions is easily doable.

As a competitor in the UK Karrimor Mountain Marathon, I carried less
than 10lbs, camped out overnight, cooked and slept (in miserable
rain), and did the whole 60 miles running. What I was carrying was
pure survival gear; the actual comfort level was close to zero. 

-- paul




-- 
hybrid rather than pure; compromising rather than clean;    | Militant Agnostic
distorted rather than straightforward; ambiguous rather than| I Don't Know
articulated; both-and rather than either-or; the difficult  |   and You Don't
unity of inclusion rather than the easy unity of exclusion. |   Know Either
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: how do you feel about a group of 1!
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Organization: Boise State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:57:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.142114.15883@scott.skidmore.edu>,
 pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
|> On the flip side... how about a group of 1?  I started backpacking
|> last year (after a 10 year interruption), and enjoy going by myself.
|> Now I get flack from aunts, friends, even wife, about how dangerous
|> this is.. I *should* go with at least one other.  So,... how many
|> people backpack by themselves?  What's the advice on this?
|> 

Advice?  Just ignore the flack ... eventually they will give up on
you.  Initially, I got lots of lectures like - 'What if you get
appendicitis, you'll die!', to which I replied, 'What if a meteor hits
me in my house, ... I'll die!'.

I tend to behave more conservatively when packing alone, ...
I may not run quite as fast down a scree slope, or experiment
as much in exploring unknown territory, but really, I've found
that if you can find someone who's company you enjoy, it's
simply more enjoyable than always packing alone.

What I noticed over the years is that Ed Abbey was right in one
of his observations (well, many more than one) - He said that
he noticed that when he found a really nice place and he was
alone, he'd always wished there was someone nice to share it
with.  I think even the more anti-social folks are still somewhat
social creatures.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.| "Spoils of war are spoils of war,
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|  says junk man, owner of the junk. 
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  Grafitti man's got something to
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  say. "   - John Trudell

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mpb@troy.cc.bellcore.com (bunz,marcus p)
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:39:24 GMT

In article <1jvm1aINN7r3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, as376@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephen C. Ferguson) writes:
> 
> Does anyone know anything about very! light weight back
> packing? I mean going into the woods for 1-2 nights with just
> 20 lbs or so.  I am not talking survival tactics quite, I would 
> still wnat to use a small stove of some kind with  other light
> weight gear and a minimum of the basics.  I have a slight back 
> problem and figure I cane still continue back packing if 
> I go very lite weight and carry it very low on my back 
> (belt pack of some kind?)  Thanks for any information or 
> advice...Steve Ferguson/sferguso@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu

Well, you'll have to settle for warmer weather camping, just to
avoid the weight of a heavy sleeping bag, etc.  And you may also
have to give up a bit on long lasting equipment, but here are my
suggestions:

1) First Aid kit - a handfull of gauze pads and tape, moleskin, tweezers,
                   anti septic wipes - 3-4 oz ?

2) Compas - 4 oz?

3) Pen knife - 2 oz?

4) Single AAA cell flashlight 3 oz?

5) Sleeping pad - 24 oz

6) Portable Aqua - 3 oz

7) 1 L Water bottle w/water 32 oz

8) Polypro fleece blanket - 32 oz?

9) Cheap plastic poncho - 2 oz

10) 10/10 tarp (1.9 oz nylon) - 18 oz

11) Sterno stove & can of sterno - 8oz

12) Matches - 1 oz

13) Spoon, Siera Cup - 3 oz

This list covers most of the stuff that you need, you can cook, sleep, stay
dry (until the .5 mil plastic poncho tears), and
handle life's little emergencies (getting lost, tick bite, scrapped knee, etc.).

So far this list adds up to 136 oz., well under 10 pounds.  To this you
need to add such things as FOOD, and extra clothes - Poly pro long
underware in deep blue isn't very fasionable, but will keep you warm
even if somewhat wet and doesn't weight too much.  You may also wish
to add a piece of plastic for a ground cloth, as well as something
to carry all the above in.  Outdoor Research (I think) makes a great
fannypack/daypack combination that doesn't weight too much and has
lots of space.  Since it's basically a fanny pack the weight is carried
low, the shoulder straps are basically just to add stability.

The list doesn't include much in the way of luxery, requires the
cooperation of the weatherman, and requires reliable water sources
along the way.  You may want to substitute something like the
Eureka! lean-to with net (40 oz?) for the tarp if you are summer
camping and don't like flying things, but that would mean the fannypack
would not be large enough.  You may be able to get away with just
wearing long clothes and a net.

Marc

Now, if I'd only stick to the above list, rather than also bringing
extra batteries, fastex buckles, sewing kit, soap, tooth paste, tooth
brush, a complete first aid kit (including splint, pepto bismol, ...), ...