From: gary.chan@compdyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Gary Chan) 
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Consumer advice neede
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:58:00 GMT
Reply-To: gary.chan@compdyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Gary Chan) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Dynamics - Vancouver B.C. - (604)986-9937 (604)255-9937

Oneb2.almanac.bc.ca to All on 01-07-93 All about Re: Consumer advice neede

O >From: lisa@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca
O >Newsgroups: can.general
O >Subject: Re: Consumer advice needed
O >Message-ID: <yuuywB4w165w@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca>
O >Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 09:38:33 PST
O >
O >mskucher@math.uwaterloo.ca (Murray S. Kucherawy [MFCF]) writes:
O >
O >> I bought myself a VCR on Boxing Day in Toronto, which I now find may
O >> some service because on playback the audio's not always that great.
O >>
O >> 1) there was no warranty card in the box; there was a description of
O >>    the warranty bearing an American address, but no card to fill in 
O >>    send anyplace
O >> 2) the serial number sticker is not in the usual place, nor is it th
O >>    usual form (6 digits preceeded by "A", white-on-black; this one h
O >>    a 5-digit number only, black-on-white)
O >> 3) there is no "CSA approved" sticker anyplace on it
O >> 
O >> This all suggests that the place I bought it sent someone across the
O >> who bought it, and brought it back here to sell it to someone cheap.
O >> 
O >> I guess my question is: What can I do to get warranty service, given
O >> bought the unit in good faith?  Is the retailer responsible for prov
O >> the full warranty service?  Is he guilty of any crime?  Am I entitle
O >> anything like a full refund?  What are my options?
O >> 
O >> Any advice would be appreciated.
O >> 
O >Murray,
O >
O >I'm no consumer laws expert, but if you bought the machine on Boxing D
O >oughtta be able to take it back for a full refund, simply because you'
O >satisfied with the product.  If they give you any trouble, write your 
O >Better Business Bureau, call Consumer Affairs, your MLA, the Toronto r
O >stations, etcetera.  Send letters to the editors of the Toronto papers
O >warning other consumers of problems like this one.  Make a scene!
O >
O >In any event, I'm sure the retailer is obliged to give you a full refu
O >unless there was a "No Refunds on Sales Items" stamp on your receipt, 
O >similar disclaimer.
O >
O >Good Luck, and let us know how you make out...
O >
O >Lisa
O >
O >               lisa@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca (Lisa Lambeth)
O >                      The Old Coot's Almanac
O >               Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
O >                    Courtesy the old coot hisse'f!
O >

Okay heres my 2 cents worth.

Consumer Law basiclly says that you must be sold a working product.  The 
vendor is not required by law to refund your money but is required to 
sell you a working product.  This basiclly means their minimum 
requirement is to repair it.  In this case, you may be able to question 
the quality of the repair job.  Since this can be subjective you may get 
some if not a lot of arguments about it.

If you purchased it as an 'as-is' sale item, you may be out of luck.  
Since you have no legal recourse.  You have to appeal the merchants good 
business sense.  That is, if they don't do something for them threaten to 
picket the store :-).

And as for the condition of the product, a lot of items sold in the 
electronic Boxing Day sales are reconditioned, discontinued or demoed 
equipment.  Recondition equipment are new products delivered in 
non-working condition.  The vendor repairs them either themselves or by 
the manufacturer.  The possible problem may be that it is just a plain 
lemon.  Discontinued products may get very expensive to fix since 
manufacturers will only have a limited stock of replacement parts.  Why 
make the parts if your not making the product anymore.  Demo equipment can 
suffer a lot of wear and tear in a show room.  Demo equipment can easily 
take ten times more abuse in the show room than a home enviroment.  This 
is not bad if you are puchasing sold state devices.  I would be very wary 
of mechanical devices such as VCRs.

"serial number sticker is not in the usual place" -- last time I saw this 
it the item was very hot.  But could be due to a careless reconditioner.

"there was no warranty card in the box" and "there is no "CSA approved" 
sticker anyplace on it" -- this sounds suspiciously like an "gray market" 
product.  Okay, you may be asking "what is a gray market product".  In 
many cases a product is available in both Canada and the US.  And the 
company will have a corporate entity in both countries.  So if your a 
Canadian vendor you would purchase your wholesale product from the 
Canadian subsidiary.  And if your an American vendor you would purchase 
from the American subsidiary.  Each sudsidiary sets aside a portion of the 
revenue from the sales of that product for warrantee repairs.  Ill be 
coming back to that.  The problem here is that a Canadian vendor may be 
able to purchase the same product from the American subsidiary cheaper 
because of the size of the American market.  The problem occurs if you 
have a warrantee claim.  The Canadian subsidiary will not fix it under 
warranty since your vendor did not purchase it from them.  They will of 
course fix it for a fee.  The only way to get if fixed under warrantee is 
to take it to the American subsidary.  I will not go into the hassles of 
filing all the paper work to get the damn thing back across the border 
without having to pay duties and taxes again.

In conclusion, I would suspect that what you have is a gray market product 
which arrived at your vendor in a nonworking condition.  The vendor didn't 
want the hassle of taking it back across the border to get it fixed.  So, 
they had it locally fixed.  Probably not by a trained factory 
representative which would account for the audio quality.

Sorry about being long winded but good luck.


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