HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: African farmers
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:23:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.Bw8rvD.GtL
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


Here's a discussion question that may actually be constructive:

How can African farmers be subsidized (to insure high food production,
insure a high standard of living to farmers, lessen pressure on 
already-crowded slums, withstand domination of the foodstuffs trade by
industrially subsidized wheat, etc.) without (1) making Africa yet more
dependent on outside aid, (2) encouraging corruption and abuse of the
system, and (3) making it impractical for farmers at the local level?

Cheers

Andrew Varvel
From: watkins@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:47:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Oct15.094736.203118
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <james.719074840@concave>, james@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (James Gemmell) writes:
> In <7512@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
> 
>>In article <BvuA66.Hp9@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>>>
>>>Since when have we (Africans) appointed you, Paul Mweene, to speak for us?
>>>Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
>>>University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
> 
> 
>>That I am an African is something no one doubts.......
>>what about you Riel? when did the leopard change its sports?
> 
> 
>>makala
>> 
> 
> Once again we find that the conversation has deteriorated into a
> "can a honkey be an african?" type of argument which I find really
> boring.  But the question still remains as to whether Paul Mweene
> has been appointed to speak for Africans or not.
> 
> --
> James Gemmell
> james@concave.cs.wits.ac.za

Don't blaim me - I know that I never nominated nor voted for him! :-)
Gary
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:14:00 GMT

In article <7072@transfer.stratus.com> pr@last.pubs.stratus.com (Paul Ryan) writes:
>Has anyone seen the TV miniseries being repeated now called Shaka Zulu?  
>Hope this isn't a dumb question, but is this culturally and sociologically  
>"accurate"? Feel free to email me.
>
>Paul

Nah. It's all bull. Just like Tarzan, Out of Africa et al. People watch
movies like that to be entertained, not to learn anything. It's like reading
s.c.a.

Shaka Zulu is apparently popular here for a number of reasons. Not the least
of which is that we see the world thru our prejudiced eyes. I just feel pity
for African Americans who actually believe that shit.

Most stories about Shaka Zulu were written by whites, for whites. As if that 
is not silly enough,the director of that movie was again another white. Now
you know what I mean.....


-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Keywords: Shaka Zulu
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:29:21 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct11.183423.203061@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>
>This is absolute nonsense. The series does not depict Shaka as a blood thirsty
>megalomaniac. Shaka was a similar person to Julius Caesar, a born military man.
>He never united anybody to fight the Europeans. His unification of the clans
>took place before there was contact with the Europeans. He never perceived them
>as a threat. That came later under Dingaan.
>* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *

I do not pretend to be an expert on South African history. But I have many
from there. My Zulu friend informs me that Tshaka is (nearly) diefed among
the Zulu. He says people still flock in thousands to Shaka's cemetery every
year to pay homage. He tells me that the day is a holiday in Zulu land and
schools and the univesity of Zululand close.( The day in question is the
birth or death day- I don't know which)

Now if the Zulu who surely know better still revere the man. How can any one call the man tyrant. This is suggesting that the ZULUS incapable of knowing a hero
I think they know their own history better. The problem is that white people
have ataken it upon themselves to write (and distort ) other peoples history.
It is imperative that the Zulus rewrite the story of Shaka nad portray the man
in a correct light. A correct movie should be made, by the people who under the
culture.

Makala
From: shemlon@occlusal.rutgers.edu (Shiyghan Shemlon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: CAMEROON ELECTIONS: CONTROVERSY!!!!!!!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:14:21 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



The Exit polls were projecting Chiarman Fru Ndi of the SDF as winner.
However the Gov't of President Biya was bent on rigging the elections
and declaring him the winner. This stunned many Cameroonians because
just days before the elections, polls gave Fru Ndi about 45% of the vote
compared to Biya's 19%, a 26% lead that Biya was unlikely to beat. 

A day after the elections, partial returns started showing Fru Ndi a 
winner over Biya by a very wide margin. This led to some very violent
conflicts between the supporters of the two candidates in Yaounde,
Sangmelima and Ebolowa. Unconfirmed reports say about 16 people may
have died in Ebolowa where the indegens are trying to force out all
Bamilikes and Anglophones from their territory, a move that has been
strongly influenced by the radical positions of Biya's henchmen and
CPDM party barons in this region of the country. It is even reported
that the assasination attempt on the life of one of the Presidential
Candidates Mr. ekindi, in this southen part of the country was because
this was considered to be Biya's private hunting ground and Ekindi had
no right to try to sollicit votes there.

Two days ago the Minister of Information proclaimed partial results
giving Biya the lead over Fru Ndi. This prompted an investigation by
the opposition which discovered that the figures published by the
Minister exactly matched those published for the Parliamentary
elections in Cameroon Tribune #5050 of March 22nd 1992. The figures
were even more astonishing because exit polls gave Fru Ndi the
following percentages of votes in  the most popoulous provinces

Littoral        80%
Western         85%
South West      75%
North West      90%
Centre          40% 

This thus projected Fru Ndi the clear winner who could even get 50%+
of the vote when the other results came in. The opposition then took
the matter to the Supreme Court.

Mr Bello Bouba Maigari, the other major Presidential Candidate also reacted
very sharply to these results. He pointed out that he was not coming on
the air to declare himself the winner, but to acknowledge the fact
that Fru Ndi was the winner, and warned that Biya was trying to throw
the country into Civil War by trying to rig the elections.

Yesterday the Information Minister came on the air to acknowledge the
fact that the Gov't made a mistake and republished the results of the
Parliamentary Elections of March 1992, but the question many are
asking is, "Granted you made an honest mistake Mr. Minister, where did
you get the figures for Mr. Fru Ndi whose party the SDF did not
participate in the Parliamentary Elections because they were
contesting the Electoral Code?" The Minister has not yet given an
answer to this question. At the moment the Supreme Court is doing the
recounting and verification of the votes. Many only hope that the
Gov't has not tampered with the ballots. 

CAMEROONIANS ARE WAITING FOR THEIR VOICES TO BE HEARD ONCE AGAIN SINCE
THE CNU SILENCED THEM IN 1966.
From: klb@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Cameroon election results anybody?
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:18:33 -0500

National elections were held in Cameroon toda{ (Oct. 11).  Anybody
pick up any news?
Ken Buhr, Agronomy/University of Florida
From: james@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (James Gemmell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:00:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: concave.james.719074840
Organization: Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand

In <7512@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>In article <BvuA66.Hp9@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>>
>>Since when have we (Africans) appointed you, Paul Mweene, to speak for us?
>>Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
>>University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com


>That I am an African is something no one doubts.......
>what about you Riel? when did the leopard change its sports?


>makala
> 

Once again we find that the conversation has deteriorated into a
"can a honkey be an african?" type of argument which I find really
boring.  But the question still remains as to whether Paul Mweene
has been appointed to speak for Africans or not.

--
James Gemmell
james@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:37:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <7072@transfer.stratus.com> pr@last.pubs.stratus.com (Paul Ryan) writes:
>Has anyone seen the TV miniseries being repeated now called Shaka Zulu?  
>Hope this isn't a dumb question, but is this culturally and sociologically  
>"accurate"? Feel free to email me.
>
>Paul


Not necessarily. The director of the series wnated to depict Tshaka as blood
thirsty megalomaniac. This is not necessarily true. Tshaka was a brilliant
man who recognized that only a strong united nation could halt the 
European invasion of the continent. He was a shrewd man who innovated brilli
ant millitary tactics. If the only the chinese had delayed the invention of
gun powder by  300 hundred years more.....
.
What however incensed me was the part about his birth, where they show him
being pulled out and his umbilical cord still attached to his mother. That
is just too much.I wonder if they would have shown it if they were showing 
the birth of Geoge washington.

Makala
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: gatsha on the warpath
X-Xxdate: Fri, 9 Oct 92 10:07:55 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:06:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.4292.7279@dosgate> colin perkel,
colin.perkel@canrem.com writes:
>   God, was there ever a pretence of being liberals?

Judging by the extent to which Buthelezi has been coddled by the
liberal white opposition in SA in the past he must at least have
tried to put himself across as one.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:34:54 GMT
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>In article <2557.2AD328C4@catpe.alt.za> Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters) writes:
>> PMM> unpunished.
>>
>>Quite! it is more than sad that Savimbi's excesses should go unpunished ....
>>just as sad as the fact that MPLA attrocities will also go unpunished....
>>Chus, Wall
> In case you did know Africa neither values nor wants to hear your judgement
>on issues of morality. 

Since when have we (Africans) appointed you, Paul Mweene, to speak for us?
It is precisely the kind of intollerance you are showing, together with this
seemingly natural inclination of too many people to simply assume that they
obviously are speaking for everyone else , that lies at the root of many of 
not most of Africa's problems.

> I am amzed that you would even venture a reply, what makes you think your
>morallity is the same as ours?

This is unbelievable.  Speaking for all Africans are you Paul?  Shades of
megalomania.  And how on earth can you claim the morality of all Africans
are the same?  Amazing.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:59:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.Bw49Mw.2Hy
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>In article <BvuA66.Hp9@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>>
>>Since when have we (Africans) appointed you, Paul Mweene, to speak for us?

>That I am an African is something no one doubts.......
>what about you Riel? when did the leopard change its sports?

And no one claimed to doubt that you were African.  May I remind you that 
you said "We Africans don't want to ... [hear your opinion]" to someone who
posted something you did not agree with.  If you are not talking for all
Africans, then don't say "we Africans".  Or do you really mean that 
because you are African, you automatically speak for all Africans?  You
certainly don't speak for this African.

As for the leopard changing his spo(r)ts - I have not changed my spots,
I am still an African, so which leopard are you talking about?  (I
did change sports, from rugby --one season was enough, thank you-- to 
distance running to (field) hockey, but I am sure that is not relevant :-)

And please, let's not start the "who is an African" argument again.  It's 
not all that constructive and besides, we already had it almost a year
ago.

Tsalani bwino.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5318 sanet.talk.politics:89
From: mpinnock@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (M B Pinnock)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: ANC Leadership Wanes
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:54:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.Bw7FB8.5ow
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

In <1992Oct15.150314.12864@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:

>Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za> writes:
>>In article <Bw5q3D.Cvq@casper.cs.uct.ac.za> Riel Smit,
>>gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za writes:

[stuff about the definitions of regim, regime, junta etc deleted]

I suggest that it is just a misspelling because of the way that it is
pronounced in S.A. (i.e. ryhmes with JIM not "rayshjeeem" as expected).

Say "Phantsi Botha-Malan Regime" 10 times in the right accent and you'll get
the idea. :-)

Brian Pinnock
UCT
From: yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Keywords: Shaka Zulu
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:05:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: dime.54836
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <7679@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>I do not pretend to be an expert on South African history. But I have many
>from there. My Zulu friend informs me that Tshaka is (nearly) diefed among
>the Zulu. He says people still flock in thousands to Shaka's cemetery every
>year to pay homage. He tells me that the day is a holiday in Zulu land and
>schools and the univesity of Zululand close.( The day in question is the
>birth or death day- I don't know which)
>
>Now if the Zulu who surely know better still revere the man. How can any one call the man tyrant. This is suggesting that the ZULUS incapable of knowing a hero

This is not a very good argument. Stalin is still revered in parts of
Georgia. People tend to mythologize the past, especially when the present is
not a happy period. It's no surprise that Zulus under the Apartheid regime
should glorify Shaka, and no surprise that Ghengis Kahn is still widely
admired in Mongolia.  

>I think they know their own history better. The problem is that white people
>have ataken it upon themselves to write (and distort ) other peoples history.
>It is imperative that the Zulus rewrite the story of Shaka nad portray the man
>in a correct light. A correct movie should be made, by the people who under the
>culture.

The correct light does not necessarily corespond with a boys adventure
notion of history.


-- 


yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: White Deer Speaks on Somalia
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:21:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700178:cdp:1471700180:000:1426
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Oct  7 18:21:00 1992


Boyd Tingle, a Choctaw living in Central Texas, told me today that
the walk of Irish and Choctaw together has already collected about
$25,000.  The leader of the Irish walkers (there were about 200 of them
by the end of the walk) returned to Ireland confident that as public
awareness continues to increase, the donations will also.  AFRI,
the Irish group, hopes to raise a total of $71,000 from the march.

This money will be turned over to the Choctaw Nation who will then
forward it to the Somalians.

I wanted a t-shirt, sight unseen, because I hear the design is very
beautiful, and the event is beautiful in itself.  However, I believe
the remaining t-shirts went back to Ireland (where the Irish will
no doubt want to buy them).

I spoke with Judy Allen, editor of the Choctaw newspaper, and she
referred me to Gary White Deer and sent me the copy of the statement
posted in this topic.  I called White Deer, but unfortunately he has
gone to Germany for an art show.  If I can find anyway to get some
t-shirts, I'll post about them.

Finally, Boyd Tingle will be speaking to a church circle here in Austin
on the Trail of Tears and the Irish/Choctaw walk for Somalia.  We
hope this will result in more donations to the cause.

If you would like to donate to Somalia via the Choctaws, send checks
with memo note "Somalian relief" to

Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma
Drawer 1210
Durante, Okla. 74702-1210

phone (405)924-8280
From: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:19:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2557.2AD328C4
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria


 PMM> terrorism. Some people  conviniently forgot the fact that MPLA on
 PMM> innumerable occasions had Savimbi cornered and clobbered,

... with a "little" Cuban help ....

 however South
 PMM> African intervention saved him each time. 

Really, this degrades to a "My dad is bigger than your dad" type of thing!

 PMM> The sad reality is that the murder and mayhem by Savimbi will go
 PMM> unpunished.

Quite! it is more than sad that Savimbi's excesses should go unpunished ....
just as sad as the fact that MPLA attrocities will also go unpunished....

What the writer was trying to say is that he hoped that the election
would introduce some form of DEMOCRACY and TOLERANCE into the
equation - I fear that you, as most of "WE" africans, tend to see
democracy as the process of silencing anyone who does not agree with us!

Chus, Wally


--  
INTERNET: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gpope@iat.holonet.net (george pope)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: tro-tros-net slightly revised posting
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:58:37 GMT
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)

African Newspapers                              10/6/92 

Tro-Tros-Net Electronic Publishers is a bulletin board at and 
which is dedicated to day to day communications and information 
exchanges particularly with those areas in third world which are 
notoriously neglected by big time media except on occasion of 
catastrophe, air liner crashes, famines, civil wars etc. 

Files will be sent to you automatically on receipt of mail 
addressed as follows: 

        filename@tro-tros-net.mailer.holonet.net 

Available publications (d)aily,(w)eekly,(m)onthly,(s)ingle: 

filename   publication         city, country, numbers    bytes(k) 
================================================================= 
troinfo.2  tro-tros-net(s)     San Mateo, CA, Oct 6 1992        3 

ghc914     Ghanaian Chron.(w), Accra, GH, Sept 7..14 1992     110 

Uh#692     Uhuru(m)            Accra, GH, V 4 No 6 1992       347 

pion_msc   Pioneer(d),         Kumasi, GH, misc                34 

These are trial postings. Once regular data flows are organized 
Tro-Tros-Net will provide low cost electronic publication of 
newspapers and other works from around the world so that we can 
all get to know each other better.              

George Pope, gpope@holonet.net, 2280 Bunker Hill Dr., San Mateo, 
CA 94402, voice 415 574 2799
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS: ZAMBIA: CHILUBA CONGRATULATES MOZAMBIQUE ON PEACE ACCORD
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:55:01 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.
Originator: barnhart@gagme

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Reference: Disarmament & Peace; Europe, western
Title: ZAMBIA: CHILUBA CONGRATULATES MOZAMBIQUE ON PEACE ACCORD


lusaka, oct 5, (ips) -- zambian president frederick chiluba
monday welcomed the signing of peace accord in rome, italy on
sunday between the mozambican government and the national
resistance movement (mnr).

''the signing of the peace treaty marks a very important
stage after so many years of war and suffering by the people of
that country,'' chiluba said in statement released at state
house.

''i am congratulating the mozambicans with a profound sense
of satisfaction  and happiness for the historic event that has
taken place in the country's peace process,'' chiluba added.

the peace accord signed between mozambican president,
joaquim chissano and rebel leader afonso dhlakama ended 17 years
of brutal civil war.

zambia which shares a common border with mozambique in the
eastern part of the country habours over 100,000 mozambican
refugees who have fled the fighting.

the end of the civil war will not only see refugees returning
but will also be a relief to most zambians, especially in the
border areas who have in the past been victims of rebel attacks.
(end/ips/kc/oa/92)
From: sls2c@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Somalia news up date sep30&Oct2
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:06:13 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

	I meant that they are not the only one's that have been victimized 
by the war, every Somalian who had little by means both power and investments 
has been victimized. let us be honest for the situation and not only cover
some of it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Gunfire heard in Luanda
Summary: UNITA accuses MPLA of vote rigging 
Keywords: UNITA, election
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:44:23 GMT

The BBC World Service and CNN report that gun fire was heard in the
Angolan capital, Luanda. Diplomats have started evacuating some of
their staff and a UNITA rep. in Luanda is reported to have said that
he thinks total war is a matter of hours away but that he hopes
diplomatic efforts will avert it. Although some MPLA officials have
made some harsh remarks about Savimbi, aides to president Dos Santos
have been conciliatory. Meanwhile, South African foreign minister
Botha is on his way to Huambo (sp) to talk with Savimbi. 

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether the election results
should be published.

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)