HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: Zero and India not Arabs.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 05:07:14 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


In article <1992Apr17.040337.2642@midway.uchicago.edu> trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi) writes:
>
>I can't believe that this has flared up again! Oh well, here we go.
>
>
>In article <1992Apr14.200719.33088@slate.mines.colorado.edu> imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:
>MI:
>>>> 		" Zero was introduced by the Arabs...
>
>KP:
>>>FOR YOUR KIND INFORMATION THE CONCEPT OF zero WAS CONCIEVED BY THE 
>>>ANCIENT INDIAN MATHEMATICIAN Aryabhatta AND NOT BY THE Arabs.
>>>                                              Kunnath Paulose
>
>
>MI:
>>0   For your kind information zero was introduced by Umer Khyyam the great
>>0   Mathematician of his times and not by the Aryabhattia. In the days of
>>0 Abbasi Regime Baghdad was the centre of culture and science. India was then
>>0 in dark. They were arabs who introduced bright culture to india the islam.
>>0 Bo Ali Sena was the greatest scientist of his days and many other arabs
>>0 whose names I dont remember.
>>0 Next time please dont give any credit to indians for introducing zero.
>
>
>Mustafa, did you just get annoyed at Kunnath's tone, or do you really
>believe this?
>


This seems to be a neverending controversy.  The most credible thing I've
heard was that an Indian first invented it and an Arab first put it to use
in math.  It's first recorded appearance was in an Indian text (**) and it's
most important application was in Algebra, an Arab invention.  In both 
these claims I've glossed over the tons of work done by real historians
and details of where these things are derived from, but then so have the 
both of you.

Anyways, this seems the most diplomatic answer.

BTW, the etymology of the word zero orginates with the Arabic sifr:

From the American Heritage Dictionary:
  Ital. < Arab. sifr, cipher.

From Webster's:
[F or It; F zero, fr. It zero, fr. ML zephirum, fr. Ar sifr]



>Regards.
>
>-- Anil Trivedi

(**) The Mayan's have early recorded instances of zero.

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Arafat's Plane Missing
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:40:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Apr8.204032.8015
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix

trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi) writes:

>Just in case you haven't heard this: Yasir Arafat's plane, en route from
>Sudan to Tunisia via Tripoli, got caught up in a sand-strom over southern
>Lybia and has been missing for over ten hours now. Anything is possible.
>PLO has requested United States to use satelites in helping locate it.

According to this morning's paper, Mr Arafat and everyone else on board
has arrived safely, though very late.  The article spent a great deal of
time discussing the fact that two recent assassinatons have left the PLO
without a clear line of succession if something should happen to Mr
Arafat.  Stuck at the bottom was the report from the Palestinians that
in that event there would be a vote to select a new leader.  It isn't
clear whether the reporter/editor found this concern for democracy
credible.

--Jeff Frane

-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) 
"Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe."
                                    --Thomas Jefferson
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Zero and Arabs
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:02:31 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr8.032426.11816@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:

>I think that Arabs are overall Zero nowdays.  I am not talking about
>individual Arabs whom you find many bright people among them.
>Just look at universities and other scientific establishments
>around the world ( and notably the US), you would find many Arabs
>(and Muslims) among the faculty ...
>However if you look at the situation of the Arab world, it is
>depressing: economically, politically, scientifically, ...
>that is what is meant by the statement, and Arabs should blame
>mostly themselves for this.


Why do you think this has come to be, Ridha (and other Arabs)?
And what can the Arabs do (and what do you see them doing
about it)?  Thanks for any opinions.


--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:1945 soc.culture.african:1860 soc.culture.asean:2895
From: khan@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.asean
Subject: An Absence of Saints
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:09:02 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA


  Most muslims think that they can learn Islam
just by reading the Holy Quran and praying,
all by themselves, without the need for any teacher.
  Although, Allah [swt] will send His light to
whomever He wishes, depending upon the cleanliness
of the person's heart, it is recommended that
people search for teachers of Islam. 
  A true teacher of Islam will be devoid of 
any political goal for self-exaltation or
to be admired by those around him or her.
A true teacher of Islam will also have spiritual
gifts, which can only come by permission of
the Vice President of the Universe, 
Muhammad Mustafa, the Rasul-Allah [saw].
  How do we recognise a true teacher of Islam?
By Signs. A true teacher of Islam will invite
and embrace all people, and no matter if anyone
accepts his or her point of view, that person 
would still be inspired by the meeting, and
leave a little wiser than before.
  A true teacher of Islam does not address
the brain. A true teacher of Islam addresses
the soul of the person. The knowledge from
beyond cannot be comprehended by the brain,
it can only be comprehended by the soul.
The connection between the living body and
the soul is made once the wall of ego is
destroyed. Then the heart is opened and
the communication is established.
  There seems to be an absence of wali's
and saints in our time. People are following
a dry interpretation of Islam where the implementation
of the religion seems awkward. And it should,
as it is devoid of interpretation thru soul.
  Knowledge can only be applied if there is
a developed perception. If you can see and identify
a certain situation, only then can you apply 
the knowledge. If you cannot even see, you
are lost. This seeing is developed thru the heart.
Thus, dry application of all the rules and regulations
just leads to more confusion, and people turning away
from the religion.
  At one time there were a lot of students and
carriers of knowledge that propagated knowledge
from the Prophet [saw] and his companions, 
onwards thru the centuries. This was a special
knowledge that was more than the apparent knowledge
as understood by the ordinary human being 
thru the Quran and the recorded Hadith.
  Some people do not understand that the Holy Quran
does not contain all the knowledge of the Universe,
other wise it would be more than a million books.
The Holy Quran is the KEY to all the knowledge
of the Universe! 
  You can learn to use this key under the guidance
of a teacher. 
  When the Wahabis came to power, they tried to
destroy this connection. In the Wahabi system
there are no wali's or saints. The Wahabis
discarded all the knowledge carried on by
the wali's and the saints, and now you have to
believe in a guy sitting in an office getting
a monthly salary to interpret the Quran and
the Hadith. 

                          Your servant,
                                  Silat Man.
From: trivedi@rabi.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Zero and Arabs
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:07:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Apr8.000731.29997
Organization: Enrico Fermi Institute, University of Chicago.

In article <1992Apr07.073012.30344@slate.mines.colorado.edu> imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:
>
>		" Zero was introduced by the Arabs. Now 
>		 the Arabs are Zero themselves".
>
>	Any comment to this statement would be appreciated.
>

"Zero was introduced by the Arabs":

No it wasn't, except to Eurocentric minds. It has long been known and
accepted that zero was invented by Indians; modern scholarship suggests
that Mayans and Babylonians may have independently arrived at it also.
Europeans learnt about it from the Arabs.


"Arabs are Zero themselves"

I am not an Arab but the ones I have met can hardly be described that way. 
Well, may be a few of them, but then which group doesn't have its share 
of zeros?  :-) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Zero and Arabs
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:25:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr07.073012.30344@slate.mines.colorado.edu# imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:
#Sender: Muslim
#Followup-To: none
#Distribution: usa
#Organization: Colorado School of Mines
#Keywords: time is running out
#
#
#Dear Arab Brothers,
#
#        Assalam Alaykum
#
#
#	I want to draw your attention to an interesting point.
#
#
#		" Zero was introduced by the Arabs. Now 
#		 the Arabs are Zero themselves".
#
#
#	Any comment to this statement would be appreciated.
#
#
#	Thanks.
#
#
# 				Your brother in islam
#				ibrahim mustata	

Who wrote this? This is a stupid and racist remark. 

-Danny Keren.
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: A question on 2 interpretations of the Holy Qur'an
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:05:59 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <ku49cvINNqeo@spim.mips.com>, reddy@mips.com (T.S. Reddy) writes:
> In article <1992Apr7.211056.6849@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mamdouh Maher) writes:
> >In article <1992Apr6.044533.2522@StarConn.com> glennd@StarConn.com
(Glenn Davis) writes:
> >>I recently downloaded the English interpretation of the Holy Qur'an from
> >>through.ugcs.caltech.edu, and I noticed some differences between this
> >>interpretation by M.H. Shakir (Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc.) and the
> >>interpretation by N.J. Dawood (Penguin Books 1990).
> >
> >  Sorry, I cannot answer your question, but it is important to note
> >that N. J. Dawood is not a Muslim, he is an Iraqi Jew. The Penguin
translation
> >is largely discredited and includes too many inaccuracies to be
attributed to
> >honest error. Please beware of that translation.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Mamdouh Maher
> 
>      One thing that seems to be common between the posters on the sources 
> of Islam is the sheer xenophobia they display about their religion. If it
> is such a great religion with such a great message, surely it can withstand
> the knocks of a few nay-sayers like Mr. Dawood and Mr. Rushdie without a
> billion people pouncing on them?
> 
> 
> -- 
> T.S.Reddy (e-mail: reddy@mips.com)
> Religion is to history what Communism was to the 20th century - anon.

If what Mamdouh Maher says is true then it is indeed VERY important. For
a person who does not yet read Arabic an accurate translation of the
Holy Qur'an is neccessary. Anyone who knowingly produces a Qur'an which
is inaccurate is committing an EXTREME injustice (much worse than
anything Mr. Rushdie has done). How is one who is unfamiliar with Islam
to judge the Qur'an if the one which they read is inaccurate?

Brad Hernlem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.lebanon
From: jars@milton.u.washington.edu (Juan Rodriguez-Sero)
Subject: Re: About the explosion
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:46:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.122054.26166@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.024938.4151@nic.umass.edu> mmorgan@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Michael Morgan) writes:
>>
>>No, no, no, if I may speak for mi amigo JARS:

Of course he may  

>>                                               he never implied nor
>>insinuated in any way that "ordinary civilians" nearby the embassy
>>were "intended" targets; 
>
>In fact, Mr. Sera argued that they were intended targets.  
>

Not quite; what I did indeed say was that any normal six year old (and
all the more so any normal adult) would have realized that, given the
mode, place and time of the bombing, the thirty-one Argentinians who
were killed along with the four Israelis were going to be, unavoidably,
part of the target. They were not "intended" targets in the sense that
the murderers did not care for them at all; in practical terms, they
were targetted. And I say again: The mere fact that the bombers had
to know all that and did not care is monstruous; the fact that anyone
can be say that after knowing of this outrage he "was happy" is, ob-
tectively, monstruous too. I assume you are not one of the bombers;
but morally, you have not shown yourself as being any better. I will
say it again: With "friends" like you, those poor Palestinians won't
need any enemies.
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: You couldn't resist, could you? (was Re: Advanced Societies... Children And Camel Races.)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:29:54 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <6APR199220353949@rigel.tamu.edu> wam2221@rigel.tamu.edu (WA'EL A. MASSARWEH) writes:
>Carassco,
>	I don't know where you are from, and I realy don't care. What
>I know though is that you are a racist scum..... By no means I will defend
>the acts of some Shieks in the Gulf, because those are the filth of our
>culture, and by no mean they prepresent me and my people. 

I'm sure as someone who has lived in Kuwait you will let us know if you have 
ever seen a camel race with screaming children tied to the camels.  "some 
Sheiks in the Gulf" sounds suspiciously like a euphemism for all Gulf Arabs.   
The term has been used interchangeably in the various flames about Kuwait, etc..

>You generalization
>nevertheless, show that you are a man with a mission.. Why don't you
>make life easy for yourself and say things straight. Just say it out loud
>"I hate Arabs" That might make feel much better rather using all kind of
>convoluted ways....

I guess it would've been fine if he just hated Gulf Arabs?

>
>Salam ..
>
>Wa'el

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome!)   School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Software support in Saudi-Arabia
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:34:25 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <essa.702703674@willow.cs.scarolina.edu> essa@cs.scarolina.edu (Ossama Ahmed Essa) writes:

> OK, this might be offensive to some Saudi brothers, but here are the facts:
>  Saudi Arabia has the second largest market (after Hong Kong) for pirated
>software. Simply you go to one of these shops and you will get any software for
>a few more pennies than the price of the empty diskettes. About the versions,
>they will have the most recent of anything. Sometimes, you might be able to get
>some software in Saudi Arabia before you can get it here in the US. Talking
>about support !!! I don't think so.

This is true.  A recent report (I think by the ACM, the major CS 
professional organization, but it may have been from the government)
identified Saudi Arabia as being near the top of the list of worst 
software pirate countries.  However, I do recall reading later that the
Saudi government had agreed to implement reforms/changes in this light.
I can't say from first-hand experience, but it seems possible that in
Arabian culture today (as in much of the world) there is not much of 
an appreciation of intellectual property rights. (In how many countries
are pirated music cassette tapes openly sold?)  Thus, perhaps the 
pirating was not viewed as theft.  I dunno, but I suspect that the 
Saudi government was really embarrassed by the report.  We'll see how
the changes go...
--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: jon@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: American attitudes toward the Gulf War
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:45:44 GMT

(Ahmed Bouzid) writes:

>  [during the Gulf War Americans did not ask ...]
>how much of a military power is
>Iraq, anyway, when their army surrenders in droves as soon as
>they get a chance to, and do we have to massacre them like this,
>in the tens of thousands, is it really necessary to take the life
>of healthy young men--men who, grubby-looking as they might have been,
>were still men, men who want to live and who should have lived?
>Why is it suddenly so important to defend another nation?  Why
>didn't we fight to the death like thisfor the principle our leaders are
>trumpeting in our ears that we are fighting for, when we did nothing
>when the Russians invaded Afghanistan, or when Iraq invaded Iran?
>Or are we fighting for a principle?  These are all questions
>very few people asked, and those who asked them were threatened
>with the label "antipatriotic", or outright called "antipatriotic."

   For what it's worth I, an American, said all the above things loudly
and publicly in several newsgroups here on the net, and got called a lot
worse things for it than "unpatriotic."

   Perhaps the most discouraging thing about that experience was that
many of my fellow Americans who criticized me obviously were not only 
angry with me, but were actually surprised and hurt that I didn't
support this vicious and idiotic military adventure.  Think about it --
their *feelings were hurt* because I threw a shadow across their
otherwise unhampered enjoyment of slaughter.  And when it was all over,
they just turned off their teevees and went on the nod, sated with
bloodshed, a trace of pink froth bubbling from their lips as they
snored ...
--


Jon Corelis               jon@lindy.stanford.edu
Stanford University       BITNET:  BA.JYC@RLG.STANFORD.EDU
From: aoutzour@slate.mines.colorado.edu (OUTZOURHIT ABDELKADE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Arafat's Plane Missing
Keywords: Discussions of Arafat: the PLO leader, Achievements ...
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:29:06 GMT
Followup-To: Arafat's Plane Missing
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

In article <1992Apr8.051140.8243@midway.uchicago.edu> trivedi@curie.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi) writes:
>Just in case you haven't heard this: Yasir Arafat's plane, en route from
>Sudan to Tunisia via Tripoli, got caught up in a sand-strom over southern
>Lybia and has been missing for over ten hours now. Anything is possible.
>PLO has requested United States to use satelites in helping locate it.

	The plane was spoted by an American Satellite spying over Libya.
Rescue missions were guided by the satellite and Yasir Arafat was found
safe and sound (minor injuries) although the three crew members died in the 
crash.
	I think that we should initiate a discussion in this group about 
Yasir Arafat as the PLO leader, his achievements for the Palestinian people, 
mistakes,  his role in the on-going "peace process", his sacrifices for the 
cause ( I heard that he finally got married !) etc.. so that we give this man 
the place he deserves in history. Any input from this group and other people
who read this news group is appreciated.


*************************************************************************
Abdelkader Outzourhit   !         aoutzour@slate.colorado.mines.edu
Physics Department      !
16th and Illinois       !
Golden, CO 80401        !
#########################################################################
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: About the explosion
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:09:45 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr9.034011.22304@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>I don't know much about Syria's role in Lebanon.  But, do I understand
>correctly that it is there by the invitation of Lebanon's government?

Only if you believe doublespeak.  I do believe that the Syrians
were invited way back when, but they've been pulling the strings
of most governments ever since then, and seeing that the governments
stayed in line (remember what happened to Bashir Gemayel?  He was blown
up by a Syrian intelligence agent named Habib Shartouni).  Thus,
an invitation from a puppet government doesn't count for a whole lot.
--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
From: trivedi@rabi.uchicago.edu (Anil Trivedi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Zero and Arabs
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:58:03 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago.

In article <1992Apr8.134029.18241@cs.tcd.ie> ahmed@cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash) writes:
>In <1992Apr07.073012.30344@slate.mines.colorado.edu> imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:

>>		 the Arabs are Zero themselves".

>
>* Did you realize that you might be offending some honest arabs?
>* Thank you for your compliment, though your quotation is not new.
>Any way keep posting, you will realize that some arabs are more than
>zero, and some others are below zero, and you will find that
>generalization is not always correct.

I think Mustafa may have been only referring to the Arab rulers
and leaders; no risk of offending anyone honest there. :-) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: shibu@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Shibnath Mukherjee)
Subject: Looking for job in Gulf countries (Help needed)
Originator: shibu@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:26:18 GMT


I have a Phd degree in Materials Engineering from the 
 University of Wisconsin which I received in 1991. I also have BS 
 and MS  degrees in Metallurgical Engineering from the Banaras Hindu
 University, India.
 Since I am looking for a job in teaching, industry or R&D in Gulf countries,
 I would appreciate any useful information from the net-watchers.
 P.S. My academic training is of course complemented by a professional
 experience in teaching and industrial research for over 11 years.

 Thanks in advance.
 Dr. Shib Nath Mukherjee
 shibu@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: About the explosion
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 03:40:11 GMT

In article <14880@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

>That won't happen, likely.  The Syrians are Arabs/Muslims, while
>the Israelis are neither (plus they're considered Zionist
>colonialist tools of the West).  The pressures of Arab nationalism
>and Dar al Islam would not allow this.

I don't know much about Syria's role in Lebanon.  But, do I understand
correctly that it is there by the invitation of Lebanon's government?

In any case, if Syria does anything evil, it must be held accountable
for it.  The same goes for everybody. 

Behnam Sadeghi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.lebanon