HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: Teaching of concepts
Originator: cavrak@kira.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:05:54 GMT

In a discussion of "experience" / "examples"

S. J. Cavrak writes:

	imagine a math textbook with Mathematica built in; a
	statistics textbook with JMP and several years worth of
	opinion polls and economic data; an astronomy text with tons
	of images of the planets (gis type); an environmental studies
	text with stella, etc.

H. Rubin comments:

	I can see something like Mathematica being included in a good
	textbook teaching mathematical concepts.  But the stuff you
	have mentioned has no place in a statistics book until the
	concepts, none of which are even illustrated by the methods
	and data suggested above, are clearly understood.  (Well, the
	opinion polls might be all right for examples, but not as
	usually given.)  

Definitely not as usually "given."  Here I was thinking of students
having access to "raw" data -- and lots of it from a variety of sources
that might relate to their particular interests -- and "tools" to
"look" at data in a variety of ways.  One or two examples of "mean"
and "mode" and "median", etc., are generally too abstract.  I think
that students have to "tackle" data on their own, and that the data in
some sense has to be "real."  

Calculating the "average" of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 can indeed illustrate the
concept of "average" (and so can 1, 1, 1, 1, 5; etc.) but many students
find these on the abstract side.  (Great story about teaching
percentages - and how their relationship to money ! - later maybe.)

But I don't see this as a class room "exercise" as much as a "consulting"
exercise -- getting the "student" to explain to the "teacher" what is
going on with the data as the teacher and the student generate different
views.

"Will the Average American Please Stand Up?" 

Ciao

Steve

Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: marina@tk.mainet.msk.su (Naumenko M.V.)
Subject: To anybody who is interesting in science
Reply-To: marina@tk.mainet.msk.su
Organization: Moscow Aviation Institute, PDTK
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:01:39 GMT

          TO  ANYBODY  WHO IS INTERESTING IN SCIENCE
        We apply to everybody who interested in  future  Russian
science; who   would  like  to assist  it  to integrate in World
science society.
        We need information about Funds and other  organizations
who interested in  attraction russian  science organizations  to
research within  the limits active and  plan science proects and
directions of  this  researches   but also about  conditions  of
precipitation  russian scientists   in this proects.  Besides we
would like to know about questions of finance.
        We pin   our hopes on  establishment of interaction  and
development of international cooperation.
        Best regards.                 Marina V.Naumenko



Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: duck@nuustak.csir.co.za (Paul Ducklin)
Subject: Re: Monty Python's Latin lesson from Life of Brian
Organization: CSIR
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:48:01 GMT

Thus spake rcape@scott.skidmore.edu (robert cape):

>Forgive me if I am wrong, but I think the quote goes like this,

>	Brian writes:		ROMANI EUNT DOMUS
>	Guard corrects to:	ROMANI ITE DOMUM

Brian used DOMO, I think, and (definitely) ROMANES, because there was a 
short, one-sided exchange about the declension of ROMANxx.

Wasn't the bit about "towns and small islands" in the film, too?

Paul Ducklin

 

--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--
Paul Ducklin                                           duck@nuustak.csir.co.za

    CSIR Computer Virus Research Lab * Box 395 * Pretoria * 0001 S Africa

NB: I have *no* pets named "Eric". 
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj von DeGrabianka)
Subject: Re: Quid est "tio"?
Summary: "O Tempora, O Mores!"
Keywords: Latin
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:11:45 GMT

Sigh, "Oh the Times", indeed!  C'mon guys, what happened to your Latin!
It's "Dominus Illuminatio Mea" - "The Lord, my enlightenment" (or, in the vulgate,
"light"), since illuminatio is from (but not derived from, as a past particple)
illumino - "light up", "enlighten", "embellish".


					Bohdan(vs)



Xref: sparky sci.classics:567 sci.lang:6089
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,sci.lang
Subject: Context
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:09:27 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

Can anyone give me the Internet address of the Context mailing list?
Any help gratefully received.

Andy Fear, cla04@uk.ac.Keele
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: rcape@scott.skidmore.edu (robert cape)
Subject: Re: Monty Python's Latin lesson from Life of Brian
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:22:02 GMT


Forgive me if I am wrong, but I think the quote goes like this,

	Brian writes:		ROMANI EUNT DOMUS
	Guard corrects to:	ROMANI ITE DOMUM

The guard calls DOMUM locative (for which he should check his school
grammar book.  :)  It is accusative of place to which.  :)  ).

This IS a nice segment of film to use in class, since it does
illustrate the importance of case endings, an irregular verb, and a
special place construction.  And, you do not HAVE to have attended a
boy's school to have seen it....I have used it in my Latin classes at
UCLA, St. John's, and Skidmore.   :)

Cheers!

Bob Cape
e-mail: rcape@skidmore.edu
snail: Classics Program, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 

----"Always look on the bright side of life," (whistle noises)...----
From: adjg@suite.sw.oz.au (Andrew Gollan)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: _Flamen Dialis_, Regalia of.
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:29:15 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Jul26.062129.16650@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:

|Recently, I read Colleen McCullough's books _The First Man In Rome_ and
|_The Grass Crown_.  Excellent books, and obviously well-researched---I
|hadn't known that Aussies knew about things like Latin!  :}

And you hadn't noticed that several of the common posters to this group
have addresses ending in ".au"?
-- 
Q.C. (Queen's Counsellor): A	|Andrew Gollan - "Anti-Family and proud of it"
learned associate of a gay man.	|Phone: +61 2 698 2322  Fax: +61 2 699 9174
Handbag: A male fashion	     __	|Softway, GPO Box 305,
accessory of a gay woman.    \/	|Strawberry Hills NSW 2012, Australia
From: cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Looking for translation of a simple phrase
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:54:28 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <3592@keele.keele.ac.uk>, by cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear):
> From article <1992Jul23.095219.1979@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, by phrrngtn@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Paul J. J. Harrington):
>  
>> I would like a latin translation for "Who will debug the debuggers".
>> qui debugat debuges ? :-)
> 
> How about "quis corriget correctores ipsos"
> 
> 
> Andy Fear, cla04@uk.ac.keele

Not bad, Andy! But isn't corrigere a bit general?

What about something like: "quis expungat ipsos expunctores"

That also isn't quite right, but perhaps gets the idea of picking out
individual messes, rather than a general sorting out. Expunctor does
exist; according to L&S Tertullian uses it once. 

By the way, if you want to keep parallel with Juvenal's original (quis
custodiat ipsos custodes) the ipsos has to go before the verb (which
needs to be subjunctive).

Richard Wallace
From: cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Looking for translation of a simple phrase
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:16:56 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

> By the way, if you want to keep parallel with Juvenal's original (quis
> custodiat ipsos custodes) the ipsos has to go before the verb (which
> needs to be subjunctive).> 

Oops! Slight slip up here! For verb read noun. Sorry about that.
Thursday was a hard day.

It would be fun to work out a translation which took into account what
the opposite to debugger has to be.

Richard Wallace
From: clas005@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Translating a College Motto
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:26:36 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1992Jul27.154002.1@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu>, anonymous@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Liz Broadwell) writes:
> Can anybody translate the following?  It's the motto of Rutgers College, my
> undergraduate aspera mater, and has always puzzled me:
> 
> 	Sol iustitiae et occidentem illustra.

If you have not made a transcriptional error, it has to be a 
command to the sun, meaning, O Sun of Justice, shine also on the 
West. Obnoxious, eh? Giving commands to the sun? And why is the 
west so special? And why justice? And what does it have to do 
with Rutgers, or any college? Did the place start out as a law 
school? Yecch.
From: turrell@violet.berkeley.edu (David Turrell)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Quid est "tio"?
Date: 30 Jul 1992 08:56:01 GMT
Organization: Cobol Pacific University
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Latin

In article <1992Jul29.141145.22497@shearson.com>
brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj von DeGrabianka)
writes:

>Sigh, "Oh the Times", indeed! C'mon guys, what happened to your Latin!
>It's "Dominus Illuminatio Mea" - "The Lord, my enlightenment" (or, in
>the vulgate, "light"), since illuminatio is from (but not derived
>from, as a past particple) illumino - "light up", "enlighten",
>"embellish".

Lighten up. 

We'd long since gone from the sublime on this one. It should go
without saying that everyone in this newsgroup knew how the motto
should read, or was able to figure it out for themselves. The original
article did in fact ask if the misprint itself might have any
meaning, not the motto as it should read; and we were having a little
fun with it.

My guess as to what inspired the motto, as I once stated, is that it's
something by my namesake in the Psalter (xxvii). The meaning of such
biblical snippets is made clearer when they are seen in context.

    The Lord is my light and my salvation;
        Whom shall I fear?
    The Lord is the strength of my life;
        Of whom shall I be afraid?

Does someone want to give the Latin version, or make another
suggestion as to the motto's origin?

-David
Xref: sparky sci.classics:592 talk.philosophy.misc:1495 sci.philosophy.meta:1376
From: zeleny@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,talk.philosophy.misc,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Eyes as Windows of the Soul
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:58:07 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <zqnmg7c@lynx.unm.edu> 
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:

>In article <1992Jul29.022611.14276@husc3.harvard.edu> 
>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

>>what is the earliest occurrence of

>	How about St. Augustine?  

Can you be more specific?

>				 I know this was a commonplace
>	in the Middle Ages, don't know about earlier.

Any mediaeval sources will be greatly appreciated.  Keith Morgan has kindly
advised me of passages in Plato: _Phaedrus_, 255c and _Alcibiades I_, 132d
ff.  For some reason, I keep thinking of the Eleatics, but so far all
efforts to find the guilty parties have failed.  Likewise, Plotinus seems
to be silent on this issue, though there is a lovely passage treating
objects of sense in matter as having the same kind of reality as images in
an invisible and formless mirror (_Ennead_ III.6.13).  Eyes and mirrors are
treated at length in _The Mirror and the Lamp_ by M.H.Abrams; however I
would like to see a more recent source.

>>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>>whose soul is looking forward to all answers

>	and who can't resist a crossposting opportunity no matter
>	how slight the pretext.

Read the original question, and tell me a single domain where it belongs.

>Roger Squires
>rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu

regards,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
Xref: sparky sci.classics:570 soc.motss:32423
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,soc.motss
Subject: Re: A small dirty story from Petronius (Eumolpus in Asia)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:00:04 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: adjg@suite.sw.oz.au's message of 24 Jul 92 04:36:42 GMT

In article <adjg.711952602@suite.sw.oz.au> adjg@suite.sw.oz.au (Andrew Gollan) writes:

   For those who appreciate classical eroticism, here is a piece from
   the Satyricon of Petronius. I am working on a good translation which
   I may post later. The one in the Penguin edition by J. P. Sullivan
   is not too bad. For those into genre, this is a fairly good example
   of a Milesian tale. Enjoy! I have used elipsis to indicate the
   fragmentary nature of this text...

Years ago, Playboy printed a translation of this story---but with one
significant change: the student became a young girl.  I guess somebody
appreciated the story, but couldn't bring himself to leave it a story
of homosexual desire.

-30-
Bob

``Voce, voce cocum in medio!''
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Looking for translation of a simple phrase
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:15:47 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <1992Jul23.095219.1979@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, by phrrngtn@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Paul J. J. Harrington):
 
> I would like a latin translation for "Who will debug the debuggers".
> qui debugat debuges ? :-)

How about "quis corriget correctores ipsos"


Andy Fear, cla04@uk.ac.keele
Xref: sparky sci.classics:599 talk.philosophy.misc:1505 sci.philosophy.meta:1382
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: sci.classics,talk.philosophy.misc,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Eyes as Windows of the Soul
Date: 30 Jul 1992 17:27:59 GMT
	<1992Jul29.175808.14298@husc3.harvard.edu> <ARA.92Jul29231017@camelot.ai.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu's message of Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:10:17 GMT

In article <ARA.92Jul29231017@camelot.ai.mit.edu> ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:

   Why not write down the saying in Greek and then search for the usages of the
   Greek words.

You probably want to do a search not on any particular formulation of
the statement but rather a search for all sentences (or whatever the
smallest unit is that your search can find) that contain any variant
forms of the words for ``eyes'' and any variant forms of the words for
``mirror''.  (By variant forms I mean both different dialect forms and
different inflectional forms---since one might find references to the
statement as well as alternate formulations of it.)

		For example,

!!!

			     there is a collection of classical Greek writings
   on a disk and one can search for occurences of words. 

This is the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae, and is just the place to look.

-30-
Bob
From: anonymous@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu (Liz Broadwell)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Translating a College Motto
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:40:02 GMT
Organization: Society of Independent Newswaifs

Can anybody translate the following?  It's the motto of Rutgers College, my
undergraduate aspera mater, and has always puzzled me:

	Sol iustitiae et occidentem illustra.

Thanks!


~ Liz Broadwell (anonymous@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu) ~                        ~
~ Department of English                             ~ Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam ~
~ The University of Pennsylvania                    ~                        ~
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: THE LATIN LANGUAGE, by L.R. Palmer
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:50:10 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

I'm reading this book currently and while some of it is
distinctly over my head, not having any grounding in
linguistics, it is still interesting to read about the
history of Latin. He addresses the relationship of Latin and
the other Indo-European languages, "Proto-Latins", Latin
dialects and the earliest texts, spoken Latin based on
Plautus and Terence, the development of the literary
language, vulgar Latin, and Christian Latin. There is also
a comparative-historical grammar, with a bibliography, an
appendix of archaic Latin texts, and indexes.

My question is whether this book, which was first published
in 1954, presents any important ideas that are now considered
incorrect. 

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: iigsa01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Andreas Schilling)
Subject: Greek for TeX ?
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:10:48 GMT


Does anyone know of a macro package to write classical Greek texts
(with accents and breathings) with LaTeX?

I am also looking for Hebrew (in case somebody knows this also)

Thank you in advance

Andreas Schilling

--
|            Andreas  Schilling            |     Universitaet Tuebingen     |
| andreas@gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de |   Wilhelm-Schickard-Institut   |
|          tel.: +49 7071 29 5463          |   Auf der Morgenstelle 10/C9   |
|          fax.: +49 7071 29 5400          | D-7400 Tuebingen, West Germany |
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Subject: _Flamen Dialis_, Regalia of.
Reply-To: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 06:21:29 GMT


Recently, I read Colleen McCullough's books _The First Man In Rome_ and
_The Grass Crown_.  Excellent books, and obviously well-researched---I
hadn't known that Aussies knew about things like Latin!  :}

Could someone point me toward any artworks showing the _flamen dialis_
(high priest of Jupiter Optimus Maximus) in his ceremonial regalia?  He had
a lot of wierd taboos around him, and had to dress in stuff that made a
normal toga seem sensible and comfortable.  Poor fellow!

I'd write McCullough, but between her books and a backlog of requests for a
bibliography of her Roman stuff, she's probably years behind on her mail.  

Please e-mail me, since I don't often get on this net.  Thanks!
-- 
Technomad.  Portmanteau word from a novel I'm roughing out, about
a nomadic culture in a "cyberpunk" dark future.  I thought it up
before Cyberpunk 2020 ever came out.  On ISCA and Quartz, they
know me as a Flame-god.  cc697@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: aardvark@ial1.jsc.nasa.gov (Michael Martin)
Subject: Re: Quid est "tio"?
Organization: Nullus
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:36:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.161801.4026@midway.uchicago.edu>, ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:

> From the Vulgate (Colunga-Turrado edition), Psalmus 26 (27):
> 
> 	Dominus illuminatio mea et salus mea; quem timebo?
> 	Dominus protector vitae meae; a quo trepidabo?

> The new Latin version of the Institutus Biblicus, approved by Pius XII
> in 1945, substitutes "lux" for "illuminatio" and "praesidium" for
> "protector."

> Does anyone know what the purpose of the new version was?  Is it just
> a matter of correcting the translation (which has never bothered the
> Catholic church before), or is there a solid doctrinal reason for the
> revision?

The Vulgate is the Latin translation of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures by 
Jerome, but it is by no means the first Latin translation of Scripture. Prior
to the Vulgate, there existed o version (or more accurately versions) called
the Old Latin. The Old Latin was a translation from the Greek into Latin. The
Old Testament was from the Greek Septuagint. The Old Latin was near and dear
to Latin speakers, but was in considerable disarray when Jerome came upon
the scene.

Jerome was originally commissioned to 'update' the Old Latin to bring it
into conformity with the Greek (and I believe the Hebrew, but that may
have been later). Anyway, after quite a bit of work, Jerome concluded that
what was required was a 'fresh' translation of the Greek and Hebrew into Latin.
And this he did and today we have the Vulgate.

However, one part of the Vulgate we have is not Jerome's 'fresh' translation,
namely the Psalms. The Old Latin Psalms were so ingrained and so dearly loved
that people preferred them over Jerome's newer translation. So when copyists
where making copies of the Vulgate, they simply substituted the 'Gallican
Psalter' as it is called for Jerome's new version of the Psalms.

This Gallican version, so called because of its popularity in Gaul, is based
on the Old Latin translation of the Septuagint and was written by none other
than Jerome himself while he was working with the Old Latin text earlier. So
while we have Jerome's Psalms, we have the ones based on the Old Latin version
of the Septuagint and not his newer ones based upon the Hebrew and Greek.

Pope Pius XII decided that we needed a translation of the Hebrew for usgae in the
Latin Rite and so he commissioned one. In most editions of the Vulgate both
versions reside side by side. Presumably the Hebrew versions are preferred, but
Jerome's OL ones are still in extensive use. Any authentic Gregorian chants will,
of course, use Jerome's old version. So you will run into both versions. As far
as I know, both are considered authoritative, its just that the Hebrew based
translation is closer to what the orignal Psalmist intended.

Mike Martin
aardvark@ial3.jsc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: sci.classics,talk.philosophy.misc,sci.philosophy.meta
From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: Re: Eyes as Windows of the Soul
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
	<1992Jul29.175808.14298@husc3.harvard.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:10:17 GMT


Why not write down the saying in Greek and then search for the usages of the
Greek words. For example, there is a collection of classical Greek writings
on a disk and one can search for occurences of words. 

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: wilbanks@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dylan Wilbanks)
Subject: Re: Monty Python's Latin lesson from Life of Brian
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:31:50 GMT

rcape@scott.skidmore.edu (robert cape) writes:


>Forgive me if I am wrong, but I think the quote goes like this,

>	Brian writes:		ROMANI EUNT DOMUS
>	Guard corrects to:	ROMANI ITE DOMUM

>The guard calls DOMUM locative (for which he should check his school
>grammar book.  :)  It is accusative of place to which.  :)  ).

>This IS a nice segment of film to use in class, since it does
>illustrate the importance of case endings, an irregular verb, and a
>special place construction.  And, you do not HAVE to have attended a
>boy's school to have seen it....I have used it in my Latin classes at
>UCLA, St. John's, and Skidmore.   :)

I remember it being ROMANI ITE DOMI.
Of course, it could be an unconscious correction. Years of messing 
up on the locative in various texts makes you do that.

>Cheers!

>Bob Cape
>e-mail: rcape@skidmore.edu
>snail: Classics Program, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 

>----"Always look on the bright side of life," (whistle noises)...----
-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
"Look! An X-man movie's coming out!"          |Currently at:
c.10 year old in a Tulsa movie theater,       |Box 1143
looking at a poster for _Malcolm X_           |Boulder, CO 80306