From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 01:17:47 GMT

dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
| | karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz) writes:
| | [suggests tolerance toward horses]
| 
| I'm curious, do you find that hikers are intolerant or rude toward you when
| you are travelling on horse?   Although I don't enjoy being passed by horses,
| I'm not discourteous to the riders.  

No, on the contrary, the people I've met on the trail have been
universally friendly.  This includes casual hikers, backpackers, mtn
bike riders, families, etc..  Only once or twice have I encountered
someone who was not friendly, and they just passed by without any
kind of greeting or anything; perhaps they were just wrapped in
their own thoughts that day or just didn't feel particularly social.

I should clarify that I'm not a packer -- I ride my own horses.  I
usually travel solo or with friends on their own horses.  We don't
use pack horses and we travel in small groups.  Everything I need
is carried with me on the horse I'm riding.  This generally translates
to carrying less gear than your average backpacker since I'm asking
my horse to carry me and the weight of the gear.  Thus, people who
encounter us are not encountering a guided pack string.

| The posters to this group who have
| complained about horses certainly don't speak for all of the readers.

Thank goodness for that!  I think I referred to them as a "vocal
minority."  I felt compelled to respond to the repeated attacks
and barbs they zing against horses at every opportunity.  This kind
of repeated editorializing needs to be balanced with some equal time.

| Do you feel that the amount of wilderness where horses are allowed is too
| small, about right, or so large that it could be reduced without impacting
| you?  Are you concerned that it will be reduced?

I would like to preserve the status quo.  And, yes, I am concerned.
I am concerned that the endlessly repeated editorial message could
be successful.  Its easy to jump on the bandwagon, identify a
villan, and start shouting "Ban it! Ban it! Ban it!"  The problem
I have with this, aside from the obvious of a mob mentality, is
that the arguments are steeped in opinion, taste, personal preference,
and the staggering idiocy of politically correct thought and behavior.
The arguments do not address the true issues of access and overuse.
The aruments dodge the issue entirely with the cry of "Those bastards
on horses are screwing up our backcountry!"  What absurdity.  Even
the arguments of trail damage (and I won't deny that stock animals
will tear a trail up more than humans) are misguided.  The fact
is, the significant bulk of backcountry trails are built and
maintained through the efforts of horse people.  I don't know of
any backpacker organizations that regularly put together work crews
to maintain and repair trails (that doesn't mean there aren't any --
I am just not knowledgeable about b.p. orgs) but that's what trail
riders do.  I'm proud to be a member (not as active as I should be)
or Oregon Equestrian Trails.  This is a good group of people and
they put a lot of work into trails that a lot of people enjoy
hiking on.  Yet there are several vocal contributors to this
group who, with a wave of their hand, would simply have them
disappear.  

| I can't speak for Wayne, but my dislike of horses is not based on impact
| but solely on aesthetics, as you point out.  And aesthetics are my main
| reason for going to the backcountry.  But I agree with the poster who said
| cows are a much bigger problem than horses.

Believe it or not, I am sensitive to your reasons for wanting to
go to the backcountry.  They are the same as my own.  Now, imagine
I said to you, "You are offensive to me, therefore you should be
banned from the backcountry."  Further imagine I started spreading
this viewpoint and trying to influence people into believing you
should be banned from the wilderness -- maybe because your pack
squeeks and makes a horrible racket with each stride and it is
the ugliest hot pink and mustard yellow eyesore to ever see a
trailhead.  Seemingly valid arguments could be made as to why
your gear is inappropriate for the woods, ranging from the 
ruination of the Backcountry Experience(tm) for anyone who
had to see your pack or walk within earshot all the way to
the environmental impact of that godawful squeeking on the
sensitive inner ear of the mountain pica.  This is a farfetched
hypothetical situation, I know, though in many respects I feel
as though I (collective "I" as a horse person) am being subjected
to the same kind of bashing here in r.b.

I really believe there are places available to those very, very few 
people who just can't stand even the idea of a horse being around.
I know there are many trails in the Oregon Cascades where horses
are already excluded.  I do not begrudge them.  But I would most
definitely protest if *all* trails were closed to us, as some suggest,
or even if *most* trails were closed to us.

| 
| | What difference does it make if I can travel faster?
| 
| Would you make the same number of trips each year and of the same length
| if you couldn't bring a horse?

I doubt it.  I have never enjoyed backpacking as an activity.  The
ability to travel faster than a hiker is only one aspect.  The logistics
of taking horses into the backcountry are such that one must really
be committed to wanting to do it.  Frankly, it would probably be
easier if I did like to backpack; I'm sure I would go more often.

| 
| | Do you also have issue with those who are hardier and can make better
| | time on foot than the average hiker?
| 
| Yes, these types bother me to no end :^)  And it's even worse if they
| happily stroll down the path with an 80 lb pack while strumming away at
| a guitar.

...and singing non-stop while keeping a 5mph pace up that three and a
half mile stretch of trail with the 4000' gain... :)

| 
| --
| Don Dovey                                                    dovey@llnl.gov

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com