From: DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:54:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92321.095417DXB132
 <OAHVENLA.92Nov15135840@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> <1e6dbmINNh75@ub.d.umn.edu>
 <mwm.2npl@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>
Distribution: world
Organization: Penn State University

In article <mwm.2npl@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us
(Mike Meyer) says:

>In <1e6dbmINNh75@ub.d.umn.edu>, rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) wrote:
>> In article <OAHVENLA.92Nov15135840@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> oahvenla@snakemail.hut.fi
>(Osma Ahvenlampi) writes:

>BZZZT. You should try programming in ANSI minimal BASIC. You'd change
>your tune.

Your point?

>> I like
>> AMOS because it allows me to do complex things easily without
>> sacrificing versitality.

>Uh - I call not being able to use my commodites sacrificing
>versatility. Could you please write an AMOS program that lets the
>standard system commodites work, so I can see that this can be done?
>After all, it should be easy.

I assume you are being sarcastic. Anyway, commodities are a heap of
shit. Run PM (Mike Sinz's performance monitor) on a 68000 Amiga before
and after loading a commodity. It sucks several % of the CPU time for
nothing! One of the reasons I wrote my own mouse/screen/etc utility
(QMouse, on a recent Fish) was to avoid this commodity crap. And my
input handler is written in optimized asm, so I know I'm not hurting
system performance unneccesarily.

>> I don't need to worry about clipping when I do
>> a game, for example).  I write programs to do what they are supposed
>> to do.   If you think these bad habits, argue with my CS teachers and go
>> (re)take some classes yourself.

>Try asking your CS teacher (or me; I used to teach the stuff) about
                 ::          :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>poking the hardware directly, or complying with interface guidelines.

That doesn't surprise me. You fit the CmpSci stereotype to a T.


>> Talk to Mandarin about this one.  Sooo, Euro demos are illegaly making
>> good programs.  Hmmm.  Better talk to people on XXX.amiga.demos about
>> this one.

>I dunno - I don't consider that any class of programs that has >50%
>(and Euro Demos approach are >75%) crash on my machine as being "good
>programs". Likewise, anything that wants to treat my computer like a
>game console (i.e. - reboot it to run a program) isn't a good program,
>either.

Hate to break it to you, but your computer IS a game console adapted to a
computer. Why not enjoy it? You're the computer equivilent of Scrooge.

>No, this discussion started when someone said "AMOS sucks; it's not
>system compliant". You immediately said "Oh no, more of the AMOS is
>only good for games. It is system compliant" lately you've been
>avoiding that, and trying to imply that it's good for beginning
>programmers. I'll agree that it's probably better than C. However,
>that doesn't make it _good_ for beginning programmers.

If AMOS isn't good for beginners, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE HELL IS.
I suppose you think beginners should first obtain a PhD in CmpSci,
then buy all the RKMs and program the Amiga in LISP. Riiiight.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,sbcs.sbcss