HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 08-Sep-1992 1453")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RE:   Organic Russia
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:02:09 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

RE: Mark Markish x2799 <mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM>

#> From: "Mike E. Romano" <bj368@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
#> ... a great education (or re-education) could be offered so that
#> individuals could at least grow a significant portion of their
#> food needs and better quality at that.
#> Some of the newer areas include: .........
#
#For those involved or interested, here goes a true XIX century story:
#
#As a matter of "education (or re-education)" of his farmers, a landlord
#(barin) was demonstrating them a new plough he has purchased in Germany.
#The farmers (mouzhiki) watched silently and attentively. Then one of them
#said:
#    - Barin, is this plough from Germany?
#    - Yes.
#    - That Germany which buys grain in Russia?
#    - Yes.
#    - Where are they going to buy grain, once we'll have started
#      ploughing their way?

In fact Mark is too kind. I remember that during the past couple of years
Western Sovietologists and our own nexperts kept telling us that the
problem of (x)Soviet agriculture is in inefficient distribution systems.

They forget that on the eve of WWI Russian Empire was exporting bread
while feeding itself. Even in the 1920's, before the collectivization,
Soviet peasants produced abundance of grain. All that using XIXth cent.
equipment and horse drawn carriages ... Somehow "antiquated distribution"
did not get in the way.

Alex
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 10 Sep 1992 17:24:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep10.082353.17398@nntp.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>
>The language requirement, when enforced strictly, can be considered,
>as you put it, a violation of human rights. I never said Estonian
>government made a wise decision when passing such a law. And nobody is
>threatened to be expelled, it's only a question of citizenship.

ONLY?!

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:22:43 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <1992Sep9.090039.10357@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>I love being around the kitchen table in Moscow, drinking tea, talking
>with Russian men (and women.) Russian men are far better at meaningful
>conversation than American men, it seems. 
>
>-patricia

Maybe because they read other books than typical american writers produce
and readers consume.
(Sorry couldn't resist :-)
From: AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Entropy Warrior)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RE: Culture?....
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:56:20 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>ps.  I would like to start a small essay contest.  They name of the essay
>should be "Tyazheloe americanskoe detstvo", and essay should be your
>desciption of P.M. Schwart's life.  The essay will be judged based on
>creativity, as well as on amount of true facts.  Please provide references
>from Ms. Schwart's past posting.

I think you guys must drink warthog sweat for breakfast, lunch
and dinner.  Probably with a platypus saliva chaser.  It *has* to
be chemical.  Otherwise it's pathetic.

-Mka
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Organization: University of Chicago CILS
	<LEONID.92Sep11104109@tuna.uchicago.edu>
	<1992Sep11.184625.19388@watson.ibm.com>
	<1992Sep11.185157.27848@watson.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:07:22 GMT

Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:

>  Are you proud that your last name
>  is Andreev ? 

Surely I am. As all the educated people know, Andreevs are one of 
the best noble families of Russia. Off course I am proud of bearing
such an aristocratic name like this.

>   Oleg
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:24:31 GMT

>Why the hell is Gogol's sexual orientation important ?

It's not, really, I was just curious. "Ivan Shponka" interested me also.

And as you all can tell, I am an emotional person, and I get curious
about the emotional lives of writers, especially when they were rather
extreme, as was Gogol's.

-patricia
From: krainev@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RELAX II(Attn: Patricia et al...)
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:15:49 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


           Here is   R E L A X  I I, special attention to

                                          R U S S K O G O             
                        S L O V A


     If sometime the book about history of ExSoviet underground
  culture will be published, I'd like to find there a chapter
  titled "Pank rock". In memory of one of the pioneers of
  Soviet pank rock, M. Naumenko, whom I knew personally since
  his visit to Novosibirsk in 1987...

               Moya sladkaya N.

  Ya prosnulsya utrom, odetim, v kresle,
  V svoei kamorke sred' razbitikh sten.
  Ya zhdal tebya do utra. Interesno, gde  T bI
  Provela etu noch', moya sladkaya N.

  I kogda ya umilsya i pochistil zubi,
  I, podumav, ya reshil, chto brit'sya mne len',
  Ya vstal i poshel, kuda glyadeli glaza...
  Pravda, bilo svetlo - eto bil uzhe den'.

  I na mostu ya vstretil cheloveka,
  I on skazal mne, chto on znaet menya,
  I u nego bil rubl', i u menya chetire,
  V svyazi s etim mi vzyali tri butilki vina...

  I on menya privel v prestrannie gosti,
  Gde vse sideli za ogromnim stolom,
  Tam pili portvein, tam igrali v kosti,
  I nazivali drug druga GAVNOM.

  I dami tam bili dovol'no lubezni,
  I odna iz nikh pitalas' zakhvatit' menya v plen...
  A ya sidel pen' pnem i dumal s kem
  I gde  T bI
  Provela etu noch', moya sladkaya N.

  I kogda ya vernulsya domoi T bI spala,
  No ya ne stal tebya budit' i ustraivat' szen.
  Ya podumal: tak li eto vazhno s kem
  I gde  T bI
  Provela etu noch', moya sladkaya N.

                                          Rannii  MIKE.

   No comments...
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: St. Petersburg, HELP !!!***!!!
Date: 7 Sep 1992 00:46:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep6.143628.6526@iscsvax.uni.edu> kilborn4950@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>        I am aware of the "edinyi bilet", which is good for a month on all
>forms of transportation and fits the description you have provided, but I am
>unfamiliair with this 10-day pass of yours.  What is it called, how much does
>it cost in rubles, how long has it been around, and how in the heck come I
>don't know about it ?!:-)
>        Kilborn

It also called "edinyi", but there are couple of various passes valid for
10 days, 15 days and 1 month. There are around for quite a while (couple
of years, at least). I'm not sure, but I think cost is linear with time.

Yury
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7218 soc.culture.europe:8200
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:51:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep8.085143.15465
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <1992Sep6.063228.24273@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:

>
>We're not by any means attempting a "monumental" study to "unify" Russian
>culture. We're describing things that people did to resist various forms
>of intellectual oppression. Please don't assume we're projecting ourselves
>as authorities or experts.
>
>We are just finding out a lot of interesting stories, and putting them
>together for Americans to read.
>
>And so far, even people who really are experts like what we've done!
>

You can write as much books as you will. This will not help the americans
understand russian culture. They will think it was _that_ bad to live in russia. They will think that KGB was our main concern. It wasn't! It was not bad at
all! You get used to it as you get used to bad climate, to rainy weather.
It's a horrible blizard, but you just sit there speaking with your friend
about women. You will never be able to tell enough stories so that the americans
would understand. UNDERSTAND means to know when a russian cries and when he
laughs. There is a good test. Take a russian anecdote and tell it to a russian
guy and then to an american. The first will laugh, the latter weep. (I'm not
speaking of dirty jokes). You can write as much as you want, but to UNDERSTAND
THE REALLY ESSENTIAL things , the things for which the emigrees from russia
have nostalgia, the things which REALLY make the culture, the minor, everyday
episodes- to UNDERSTAND you need to LIVE there.

AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAzZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: sasha@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alexander.kostomaroff)
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:57:38 GMT

Bravo, Igor!

Spasi nas Bog ot damochek s diplomami i aspiraciami.

Alexandre "Sasha Propili Bashli" Kostomaroff
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: catching up with hasssan
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:15:01 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

> From Pat Schroeder (oops! Schwarz):
>
> ... a small-minded, bitter coward ... Russian or feminist or Communist...
> ... some disappointed emigrant...poisonous anger that you fling...
> ... you are not impressive at all... You trash everything...
> ... you're such a coward ... you can't even trash me to...
> ... I hate men ... and women ...

Hassan, rejoice! Your legacy is cherished.

> I have come into your closed bitter world and laid my heart open for
> everyone... my emotional openness scares the hell out of you.

Sorry, here your swift scythe of unmitigated mutlism has struck against
the hard rock of communication hardware.

Obviously, Mrs.Schwarz has little experience in computer networking;
if she had more, she would know that in the process of transmission
each byte is stripped of its 8th bit, and it is precisely the 8th bit
which is responsible for the "emotional openness" and similar paraphernalia.

> Last week my coauthor had dinner with Yuri Orlov and he said we are doing
> precisely the thing that needs to be done...

One can imagine the scene. Poor Yuri Feodorovich, I hope he is ok.

BTW, is she finally going to Raxiv, or wherever? Braking the shell of the
Plastic Universe... she might not have enough energy to break it even there,
having so many scars of emotional openness.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Dear Igor,
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:23:25 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <SCS-L%92091315332540@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>You look in a decent dictionary.  To make my point--and I
>am not flaming about your English--but it is appalling.

I am - about your last sentence. Ashipka, sir.

>You are, like it or not, for better or worse, here *and* part of American
>culture.

Geographical and cultural borders are the same - something new for me.

>Your lack of knowledge of English does not exclude you
>from the culture--though it ought to make you think twice before
>criticizing the inadequacy of English translations.

And what would you think about me writing book about American culture -
let's say from Poe to Steven King?

>If your
>position that others can never understand Russian culture--or any
>"alien" culture is true, you have no legitimate ground from which
>to launch an attack on translations into languages "belonging" to
>cultures not your own.  

Where I said that - citations, please. Or stop
attribute me that simplified bullshit.

>I happen to think your criticisms of
>translations are fine--at least as a starting point.  But I don't
>believe in the infallibility of the Pope or of Russians about
>Russian culture.

Me too.

>As for the Somali and Hatian refugees--they're here, as are you.
>Welcome to American culture.

Great culture - would you include somalian myths also?
What about English culture - is it part of American (there
were some emigrants, you know)? Is Marcel Proust a part of American
culture?

>If you have a problem with what
>something "means" to other folks who have been here longer, I'll
>be happy to give you my single view of the possibilities.  But
>your own possibilities are not wrong--they may only be more or
>less widely shared.

Yes - as Russian or American culture itself.

>Culture--it's probably something so big and so inclusive that
>presence "in" it is probably enough.

Wrong - look at the dictionary, please.

>Now back to my dinner.

Bon appetite - though human flesh as an appetizer isn't good habit :-)

>Be well,
>-Mka

Take care,
	-igor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Anti-democratic intelligentsia?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:55:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <60328@mimsy.umd.edu> vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.013239.3418@nas.nasa.gov> bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov (Bill Ross) writes:
>>     "In Russia, the intelligentsia always saw itself as an
>>     aristocracy. It enjoyed prestige incomparable to that of
>>     other groups--a prestige related to its contribution to
>>     Russia's international standing. For Russia's greatness
>>     was understood, first and foremost, as the greatness of
>>     Russian culture, a reflection of the nation's moral
>>     superiority, in comparison to which political and economic
>>     failings appeared trivial. Literature, in particular, was
>>     invested with authority, and for that reason often doubled
>>     as social criticism."  In general the intelligentsia "were
>>     prepared to play a great role in society and then were denied
>>     that role and the status that went with it."
>
>That's not true. Most of `intelligentsia representatives'
>are common people without any special pride at all. ...

    In Russia, "intelligentsia" does not mean "people with a college 
    degree", it means "the cultural elite".  They are "the salt of 
    the earth", uniquely endowed to lead the rest of the earthlings 
    into the shining future, by the way of great sacrifices.

    Having said that, the Russian intelligensia does not have 
    a monopoly on elitism.  For instance, a couple of days ago the 
    Peruvian authorities arrested the leader of the Shining Path,
    argueably the most savage guerilla movement in the world 
    (they do not just kill their political opponents, they torture
    them to death the way, they say, conquistadors used to torture
    the Indians), "President Gonzalo".  As it turns out, the guy is 
    a former professor of philosophy.  Another Sorbounne(?)-trained 
    "philosopher" founded the Khmer Rouge's.














-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: y6eu B ce6e XACAHA! ( was: Re: Russian poetry )
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:29:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep10.112910.15510
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <1992Sep10.102423.24745@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>the field of literary criticism would not exist.
>
>>I don't have anything against Ms. Schwarz personally.
>>What's more, maybe if I would meet her I'd fall from the love
>>from first sight
>
>A cold day in hell. You're a small-minded, bitter coward and I have
>nothing to do with people like you, Russian or feminist or Communist
>or anything. Perhaps you are some disappointed emigrant. Or maybe there
>is some deeper, more sorrowful source of this poisonous anger that you fling
>at me. But nonetheless, you are not impressive at all. You trash everything
>I say, and then have nothing to offer of your own.
>
>What's more, you're such a coward that you can't even trash me to my
>face.
>

My dear patricia! You are a professional feminist. Please explain why you
feeminists are so agressive to young men who are just trying to be nice
to you. When I was still in Moscow, some German students came to visit us.
Among them was a feminist girl. She went on some sight-seeng tour and
she was obliged to go back to the place where she was staying quite late
by metro. One of the russian guys who acompanied the Germans proposed
to take her to her place- JUST BEING NICE TO A GIRL. She was _MAD_ at him.
"Why do you russians disrespect women so much!? Do you think that just
because I am a woman I can't take care of myself and am unable to
get home at night alone!?" Well, I _say_!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7571 talk.politics.soviet:7913
From: verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:07:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep5.010753.15384
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <95320@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>OK, now when we have Shafarevich's own words ,
>and not just gossip 9-:[


>You hold me responsible for the makeup of employes
>>of the Mathematics Institute of the Academy of Sciences, where I
>>am director of the division of algebra.  This is quite comical,
>>because for many years I was barely tolerated in this institute
>>and from my department employes were only fired and no one added.

>Sounds reasonable, but what is his position now? 
>Was he a director all the time? sorry, I already forgot such things...

	Actually, what Shafarevich wrote there is exactly true. He
	was expelled from Moscow U and was near expelling from
	Steklovka all the time. He was never a director there.
	
	What he was never expelled from MIAN (Steklov institute)
	could be explained by two reasons: that he was "chlen-corr"
	(member-correspondent) of Soviet Academy and that
	current Steklov's director (Vinogradov => Bogolyubov)
	hold the same anticommunistic-antisovetic opinion as
	Shafarevich and backed him. 

>If yes, were all "barely tolerated" people in such positions?

	Sakharov was.


>My Thanks to Dr. Hammer for this revealing translation.

And mine

Misha.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:16:38 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:46:58 GMT
>From: Galina Kofman <galina@WATSON.IBM.COM_>


>In  <9209101335.AA12389@feds66.Prime.COM>  dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri
> Leschiner) writes:
>>
>>
>> >there is so much to read without being mosachistic.
>>
>> Ooh, sure, but why not to?!

>Are you sending me <gasp> to read books?

No, I'm sending you <grasp> to be masochistic, you know.

>                                         You know I am incapable of leaning
> ABC's.

I see. That's fine, it's the way how women are supposed to function,
don't worry. Meanwhile, I didn't respell 'masochistic' originally, being
hesitating to detrement you; vain try. Also, I understand you are incapable
of ABC, but women generally as far as I know are quite capable of leaning:
beds, sofas, chairs, all that stuff. Are you an exception?

>Do you think with your pedagogical genius there still is a hope?

Depends in what; in ABC - no way. In masochism - possibly.

>>
>>
>> ANTISEMIT BYL TVOJ DOSTOEVSKIJ, VOT CHTO.
>
>MOJ, ves' MOJ?  Kak eto schedro s vashej storoni.

FIG TEBE; I MOJ TOZHE.

>>
>> >Galya.
>>
>> Dimulya.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 5 Sep 1992 00:24:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep4.072905.3284@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>
>It would be best if the EXSU army concentrated more on moscito
>killing. I agree.

Don't you know, that what they are doing in Baltics. :)

>>
> What help can Danemark offer for the Great Russia? Tuborg?Legos?

That's just some Russian history, never mind. First Russian rulers
were Varjags (Vikings), so Russian military was born by you Scandinavs,
and you have courage to complain :).

>>Krome togo my esche ne vseh peretjapali.

That is just some Russian literature.

>>Yury.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian poetry
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:05:49 EDT
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

In article <1992Sep08.141151.24896@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>Poetry for Her Survivory
>
>Travka zaleneet,
>Solnyshko blestit,
>Ordam rotozeev
>Missis Schwarz strochit.
>
>Zdes' urvet citatku,
>Tam - cluchainuh slov
>Sypnet, skleit gladko -
>Umnuy trud gotov.
>
Not that this is a bad piece of poetry, but if I were Ms Schwartz I would
not be insulted by this parody. You see, you are not original. Mr Ivanov
from the "Vokrug Smeha" show writes this kind of versevery day by dozens.

AAaaaaaaAAAAaaaaaAAAazzzzzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzzzz
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Gogol' etc.
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:18:18 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

> From: Oleg Vishnepolsky
>
> Why the hell is Gogol's sexual orientation important ?

You don't know why? Just listen:

+ Thank God, above all, that you are a Russian. For the Russian, at the
+ present time, there is a way; that way is Russia herself. If only the
+ Russian loves Russia and everything there is in Russia! It is to this
+ Love that God Himself now directs us. Without the maladies and suffering
+ that have accumulated in such numbers in her, and of which we are guilty,
+ not one of us would feel compassion for her. And compassion is already
+ the beginning of love.
+   [Selected Parts from the Correspondence with Friends,
+   English translation, p.111-112]

It is truly very important for them to counter this message.
So, they have found the most relevant subject (well, next
to the most relevant one, which is, of course, anti-Semitism).
From: kilborn4950@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: St. Petersburg, HELP !!!***!!!
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:36:27 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <BtxHIv.93I@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter B. Maggs) writes:
> On the question of coping with Metro and bus tickets for foreigners
> in Russia -- there is a simple answer.  For under a dollar, well
> under a dollar you can buy a 10 day pass at any subway station
> that is good on all forms of transport.  If you don't know how
> to do it just ask a Russian to buy it for you.  Then you can
> get into the subway by waving it at a guard.  If a ticket 
> inspector boards your bus you can just wave your pass.
> Peter Maggs                  pmaggs@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
> 

        I am aware of the "edinyi bilet", which is good for a month on all
forms of transportation and fits the description you have provided, but I am
unfamiliair with this 10-day pass of yours.  What is it called, how much does
it cost in rubles, how long has it been around, and how in the heck come I
don't know about it ?!:-)
        Kilborn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet