HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: The Foreskin-Impaired (was Re: Drooling over...)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:11:47 GMT

In article <RHAYDEN.92Dec26173107@hqsun2.oracle.com> rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.192904.18544@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>
>   I think that circumcision only recently (past few decades) came
>   into widespread vogue. Among those who were adults during WWII
>   (whether European, Australian, American, whatever), I think
>   circumcision was very uncommon, except among those with religious
>   reasons (e.g. Jews & Moslems).
>
>Some people believe circumcision causes trauma and is unnecessary.
>Dr. Dean Edell, the Bay Area "TV doctor" (whom I more or less
>respect), occasionally bashes circumcision.
>
>Also, some people say that the increased sensitivity due to the lack
>of a foreskin makes for shorter lovemaking.
>
>I don't know the medical facts, so I don't have an opinion.  But I do
>know I wouldn't mind longer lovemaking...

It is something I have never brought up on sci.med (I don't know why
... it is one of my favorite groups to bring up strange things) but
when they worry about 'sensitivity' and circumcision, why don't they
talk to someone who has had a lot of sex with circumcised and
uncircumcised men.

I'll volunteer my views:

Does the lack of foreskin increase or decrease sensitivity. Is this a
good thing.

Lack of forskin increases sensitivity. This is without question. I
don't think this is a good thing, however. I find that quite a few men
w/o foreskins can't really take aggressive friction on the head of
their penis, and another small group of uncircumcised men don't want
to skin the foreskin back. I like to run my finger around just under
the rim of the glans when I'm jacking someone off, and about half
uncircumcised men will just go through the roof and stop me.

Men who are circumcised however, you can go on and on and have a
tremendously fun time.

I've had a sneaking suspicion that men who are circumcised have
smaller cocks on average. I don't know /why/ this would be, but I find
on average European men have bigger cocks than U.S. men of European
descent. Europeans can feel this way too. Since genetically they are
virtually the same, I can only attribute this to circumcision. (I must
point at at this juncture that I am semi-cut. I have about half an
ordinary foreskin, and can seem either way (cut/noncut) depending on
who is checking).

Attractiveness. Lots of uncircumcised men prefer the look of
circumcised cocks, and vice-versa. The grass is greener.

Uncircumcised cocks make for easier sex. Also, you can't dock an
uncircumcised cock.

Oh well...

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Crossings Over - Conference
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:42:51 GMT

The following notice came addressed to the Economics Department here at NYU 
and before I post it on our general announcement bulletin board I figured I 
would pass it along to soc.motss:

     CROSSINGS OVER - QUEER GRADUATE STUDENTS AND THE ACADEMY

             CALL FOR PAPERS

As queer students working in the emerging discipline of Lesbian/Gay Studies 
or in a variety of traditional academic situations, we are currently faced 
with many pressing challenges and controversies.  We need dialogue and 
debate in order most effectively to face these scholarly, political and 
personal challenges, but we often find ourselves confronting them on our 
own.  This one-day conference will give those of us who study or live in or 
around New York the opportunity to get to know each other and discuss these 
issues  together:

  *  How does the academy affect queer "life," and how does queer
     life affect the academy?  How do we negotiate the split commitments of 
     academic and activist work?

  *  Is there an obligation to be out in the academy?  Are there cases in 
     which it is appropriate to be closeted?  What about lesbians/gay men who
     don't do lesbian/gay studies?

  *  How do we handle lesbian/gay issues in the classroom, as teachers or 
     students?  How do we raise lesbian/gay issues wheen we teach high school
     or undergraduate students?

  *  How do we define lesbian/gay studies?  How does lesbian/gay studies 
     relate to traditional disciplines?

  *  Is Lesbian/Gay studies a "minority" discipline?  How does it coexist,
     cooperate, or compete with Women's Studies, African-American Studies,
     etc.?

  *  How "legitimate" is Lesbian/Gay Studies?  How do we gain legitimacy?  
     Do we want it?  How do we choose our own work?  Is our work marginal?
     How do we fashion ourselves for our job interviews, careers, etc.?

  *  What happens when closeted or out lesbian/gay graduate students work 
     with out teachers, closeted teachers, sympathetic straight teachers, 
     hostile straight teachers, etc.?  What kind of mentoring and pro-
     fessional support is available to lesbian/gay graduate students?

We envision three roundtable sessions in which three to four speakers give 
five-minute presentations to generate group discussion.

Send two- to four-page position papers of any of these topics by January 
15th to:

   Lesbian/Gay Studies Group at Columbia
   CROSSINGS OVER
   c/o The Institute for Research on Women & Gender
   763 Schermerhorn Extension, Columbia University
   New York, New York 10027

   Conference Date:  Sat., March 6, 1993  9:00 am to 4:00 pm
   Earl Hall Auditorium, Columbia University
From: kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:04:11 GMT

in article <1hv70lINN69f@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) says:
> 
> And WHY would a company fire a good employee *just* because he is gay?  

'Cause the boss-man might not like having to look at a faggot every day,
that's why.  It's just that simple, and it happens.

  					    Kevin

Kevin Malloy  kevin.malloy@att.com  		  DoD #106  1991 BMW K75RT
633 E. 11th Ave.      __
Denver, CO  80203     \/   With Liberty and Justice for all, NO EXCEPTIONS
(303) 830-2937							  Un-Do #2
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:36:48 EST
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This bounced from the LA-MOTSS mailing list.

So, I'm out here visiting Dean and he says "You take care of our New Year's
Eve plans, honey."

Ok, so what are we supposed to do. Any fun parties going on that I can get 
invited to?

Any REALLY COOL "bar" events happening? We probably wouldn't go to them anyway 
because Dean hates the loud music and I hate the smoke.

But anyway, though I'd ask.

What are other people doing for New Year's eve in LA?

   
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``The Rodney King jury has re-examined the Zapruder footage and has decided
that JFK's injuries were self-inflicted.'' -- joke in the Village Voice.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:20:00 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>>In <1ht79qINN6dp@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>>>> BBC put it best:  all the Equal Opportunity policies in world are useless
>>>> if the _law_ doesn't allow you to use them.  And that's what Amendment 2
>>>> does.

>>>You really think HP would fire you in violation of their own EE statement? 

>>It's possible.  In Georgia, I could seek relief in the court system.
>>In Colorado I could not.

>I don't see how this follows from CO2. If FooWare has an
>anti-discrimination policy and they violate it, that's a breach
>of contract, and I don't see how CO2 would prevent you from suing
>successfully. Granted, CO2 prevents the law from *mandating*
>non-0discrimination; but if a company sets up such a policy
>voluntarily, they would be bound by it the same way they'd be
>bound by any other agreements.

	CO2 doesn't distinguish what's beiung argued, it only
states that discrimination on the basis of orientation can't be used.
Therefore, in CO's eyes no breach of contract exists, because
I'm' not allowed to claim the breach took place.

	"Why are you suing Foo Inc.?"?
	"They fired me because I am [censored] and violated their
EE stament on the grounds of [censored]"

	What's their EE statement?
	Their EE statement forbids discrimination on the basis of race, 
age, sex, handicap, marital status, veteran status, ...  and [censored].

	Well, I'm sorry but it doesn't appear you have a case, since
from what we can see no unallowed discrimination took place.

	But they have something that includes [censored]!
	Yes, but that's a *private* matter - you have to take it
up wuith them.

	I can't - they are the ones that fired me!

	Sorry, can't help you.

	---

	I can't recall anything like CO2 hitting the courts where
a person isn't allowed to claim X.  Near as I can recall, you can claim
anything, just that a lot of things aren't going to do much for you.
CO2 - "predecides" this for us.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:15:23 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Ron Buckmire asks:
>What are other people doing for New Year's eve in LA?

Going to San Francisco.  ;-{)##]

 
() Missionaries: Making the world safe for hypocrisy.
()      -- Thomas Wolfe
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfw@rome.mti.sgi.com (john fergus wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Last night on television
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 20:31:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.174504.24772@panix.com>, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
|> 
|> PBS, in the American Playhouse series, ran the Canadian film
|> _Strangers in Good Company_, about a group of women who are
|> no longer "of a certain age" stranded in the middle of nowhere
|> when their bus breaks down.
|> 
|> Even my spouse, who grudgingly gave up our more usual
|> action-packed Monday night fare, was captivated.  (And we
|> certainly wouldn't have seen it if Tovah Hollander hadn't
|> phoned-- just before I went out to lunch with Emily Rizzo--
|> to let me know it was happening.)
|> 
|> Now, if the preceding cast of characters isn't enough name 
|> dropping to provide the ObMotss, one of the characters
|> comes out to another in as gentle a conversation as you
|> could imagine.  Well, actually, there are lots of comings
|> out, but only one, I think, as a lesbian.
|> 
|> My favorite part:  the panty-hose fishnet.  Both when they
|> set it up and when it works.
|> 
|> 

This wonderful movie is available on video.  Check it out.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:43:47 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes:
  >|> Every once in a while I'll read on the local bboards in the places I
  >|> have accounts at, that Mr&Mrs so-and-so had a brand new baby, vital
  >|> statistics of the baby follow, and the message ends with how the
  >|> father is proud and the mother is resting at the hospital. The message
  >|> is invariably congratulatory.
dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne) writes:

 >Now I have an opportunity to be spiteful and petty, too.  
Oooh, Debby, I _love_ it when you're spiteful and petty.

 >I actually don't get too annoyed about baby congratulations,
 >because I find babies pretty exciting.  The one that always gets my
 >goat is when straight people are, as they are invariably, 
 >enthusiastically congratulated for getting married.  I wonder why 
 >nobody is ever congratulated for having the courage or imagination 
 >or simple  unconventionality to remain single or to find some other
 >interesting way to live and build family.

Mostly because those people who do these not-getting-married things
don't find a way of turning the making of these decisions into a
rite of passage.  That's a large part of what remains for me in the
congratulatory comments that people offer on births and marriages,
and I have seen plenty of announcements of adoptions (by single
people and couples of assorted types).  A friend of mine recently
suggested, in my hearing, that the parents of a transsexual about
to undergo SRS send out announcements, as a way of spreading the
news and preventing it from being thought of as an unpleasant
secret.

About kids, in particular, parents get more blase as they get more
accustomed to parenthood.  My first niece was just about six months
old at her first Thanksgiving.  I was holding her, and looking from
her to the Weber kettle on the back porch where they were planning
to smoke a turkey, and said, "She'll just fit."  My sister became 
truly indignant.  With the third one she was sizing the fit up
herself.  (I mention this, of course, because of JI's pot roast
remark.)

Another example:  A long-time net.buddy of mine just dropped me a
note to tell me of the birth of his second child.  The Subject: line
was something about Usenet Discourse.  He-- and I gather his wife as
well-- were rather amused when I pointed this out.  


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:22:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.123033.4883@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>I took Melinda to be saying, in
>effect, that despite that, there is an image that could
>be revealing to anyone who will consider it, embedded in
>Dworkin's extreme rhetoric.

More or less.  As I wrote earlier, just because she's wrong
about an awful lot doesn't mean that she's wrong about
everything.  She's starting from what I consider to be a
reasonable assumption (the problematic nature of
consensuality in unequal relationships) and drawing some
outrageous conclusions.  That doesn't invalidate her
starting point.

We've discussed, in an earlier thread, that it's hard to
"get it" until you've had some direct experience with
oppression yourself.  I believe that you can sometimes fix
automotive electrical problems by driving really fast
across a bump.  I believe that you can sometimes fix
hardware problems by power-cycling.  Sometimes tripping
over a book on the library floor can help put a problem in
a new perspective.  And if Andrea Dworkin can jolt some men
into considering *why* they get so angry with her, then she
will at least have accomplished something.  Mind you, the
number of men I've seen actually think about their anger
with her and why she writes what she writes still numbers
in the small single digits.  It's all too easy to dismiss
her as a man-hater;  I'd like to see more people (men
especially) consider the "why" of it all.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:03:09 GMT

in article <1992Dec30.041841.13257@flood.com>, tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) says:
> 
> buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> | A broader question, do all 9 cities that are boycotting Colorado have
> | gay rights ordinances? I would presume YES.
> 
> No. Atlanta, for one, does not.

I heard the same report (on NPR).  If my information is correct, Atlanta
was the first major city (if not the first city) in the U.S. to pass
anti-discrimination laws protecting against discrimination based on 
sexual orientation.  The Colorado Tourism Board spokesperson mis-spoke.

> it was awfully smug and hypocritical for Atlanta to be boycotting
> Colorado when Denver, Boulder, Aspen all had enacted anti-
> discrimination ordnances while Atlanta never has. Lesbigays in
> Atlanta have no more legal protection than those in post-
> Measure-2 Colorado. In fact, they have less, since Georgia
> (home of Bowers v. Hardwick) still outlaws sodomy.

Sorry.  This isn't true.  Here in Colorado, lesbigay people can not 
make a claim of discrimination.  In places with out anti-discrimination
laws, we can still make a claim of discrimination, we just don't have
the jurisdiction (city, county, or state) doing the investigation.

  					    Kevin

Kevin Malloy  kevin.malloy@att.com  		  DoD #106  1991 BMW K75RT
633 E. 11th Ave.      __
Denver, CO  80203     \/   With Liberty and Justice for all, NO EXCEPTIONS
(303) 830-2937							  Un-Do #2
From: los@coos.dartmouth.edu (Charles Dubuque)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Our Sons TV Movie NEEDED
Date: 1 Jan 93 19:24:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

I need a copy of the NBC television movie OUR SONS which aired in the
summer of 1991. It starred Ann Margaret and concerns two mothers dealing
with their two gay sons, one of whom is dying from AIDS.

If anyone has a copy of this I can loan, or can provide me with a copy,
please contact me. This is for research I am doing on images of people
with AIDS in television and video.

Thanks,
Chuck
los@coos.dartmouth.edu
or
ced@dartmouth.edu
From: an4299@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Request for Info on Rainbow Curriculum
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:46:00 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.motss

I'm currently involved in a debate on another network, and the issue of the
Rainbow Curriculum has come up.  The person I'm debating with has stated
that the curriculum includes "explicit information on analingus, dental
dams, and crap like this."  (His words, not mine...)

I believe that this is false, and is simply propagandistic information being
spread by those opposed to the curriculum.  But, having never seen it, I
cannot be sure.  Therefore, I was wondering if anyone who HAS seen the
curriculum could give me a better idea of exactly what IS included in it.

Thanks in advance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Dworkin as social-constructionist (was Re: what is a man-hater? (was Dworkin...)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:57:00 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <gfEVIr_00VpKE1SnA8@andrew.cmu.edu> 
Tom Lord <lord+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

[ rehashed essentialist vs social-constructionist
  argument deleted ]

> I think it is also fair to say (going way out on a wobbly limb) that
> dworkin's anger extends, not only only to a set of identities, but to
> those that promote and enact them; those who resist the destruction of
> identities which her analysis convinces her are wrong-headed.  One
> name, commonly applied to a large group of such people, even if for
> the wrong reasons, is `men'. 

The wrong reasons?!  What, pray tell, does that mean?

> Interestingly, males who are recognized
> as not being defenders of the sex are often denied the name `man', 

Example, please?

> so, there are larger forces than dworkin using the name `man' to refer to
> a male that acts in a particular way.

Oh puh-leeze.  

> If this group, call them `real men',

Why?  I thought we'd agreed to call them "men".

> are defending and resisting the
> correction of harmful social conditions, intentionally or not, then
> they are an enemy to those who would bring change about. 

Well, you know Tom, I don't think the fact that I might enjoy
watching gay porn is, 1) any of Andrea Dworkin's business, or
2) *is* violence against women, as Dworkin would have us 
believe.  So if my resistance means that I'm given the name
man for the wrong reasons, so be it.

"Terror issues from the male, illuminates his essential
 nature and his basic purpose."
        -- Andrea Dworkin, _Pornography_, p. 16

I don't know.  It strikes me that Dworkin argues from
an essentialist stance just as much as she does from
an s-c stance.

Arne
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Dec31.000000.28238
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <C03HIJ.54r@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.201805.21950@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>>
>>Talked to a friend who says Austin has a non-discrimination ordinance against
>>Gays!!!!
>
>So let's see if I understand this:


Get off you horse Mr.  I was just astounded that I never new it.  And
when I heard it I wanted to make sure....I have been told things before
in this world and believed them and been smacked into reality (Oregon
is a progressive STATE???? Get my drift)  So I really wanted to hear it.
I don't think it has come across the net.  

>
>Those of us who have lived in Texas say so... you dismiss it.
>
>Motssketeers who currently live in Texas say so... you dismiss it.

I didn't dismiss it, I asked more about it....You must be one of 
those PC'ers who just want me to sit back and except everything I am
told....

I was told the other day, after I bitched about a publication
up here that if I don't like it I shouldn't read it.....I am sorry
but I read and listen to a lot of things I don't like...have to so
I can keep abreast of things that are happening......So if Texas motss.
say it is so, thenit is so?   I asked because I wanted to be sure.

So take the dildo out of your butt if you think I put it there because
I didn't....


>
>Larry Stratton's list says so... you dismiss it.

Great....I haven't seen the list for a while....

And Larry know I would never dismiss him!!!!  23 pounds and counting
Larry!!!!!


>
>You talk to a friend... wow, now that's credible.

My friend lives in Austin, has for 17 years and I trust him an know
that he doesn't speak about things he doesn't know about.....

Guess you believed everything Perot had to say too!!! I mean he
lived in Texas all those years and he said it was all so!!!


>
>Hmmmmph.
>-- 
>ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
>rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
>"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
>                                                                   -- J. Foster

Hmmmmmph....

Roger, rejoice with me in the happiness that I feel now that I know 
that one of my favorite places in the world is safe!!!!  Yea!!! Austin!!!!

Bil Snodgrass III
Newsgroups: soc.motss