From: franl@centerline.com (Fran Litterio)
Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Graviton beams?
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:29:24
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
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In-reply-to: xeno@iastate.edu's message of Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:48:33 GMT

xeno@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen) writes:

> 1)  We would still perceive the ball as moving very near the speed of
>     light (after accounting for light delays)...  true?

> We would see
> a 'clock' on the ball slow down, but we (as 'stationary' observers)
> would not see the ball slow down, by any means.

If we do the difficult GR math to calculate the speed of the ball in
its own frame of reference based on the very slow speed we perceive it
having, then we would compute a ball-frame velocity much higher than
the observer-frame velocity.  Ultimately, we perceive the ball taking
an infinite amount of time to cover that last millionth of a
millimeter to the event horizon.  To me that sounds like it's moving
pretty slow in the observer's frame of reference.

> If the former is true, then in order for it to take infinite time for
> the ball to reach the event horizon (from an observer's watch), it
> would need to pass through infinite space.

No.  The ball appears to move ever more slowly due to (ever more
extreme) GR time dilation.

> 2)  If (1) is wrong, and we accept the idea that nothing will ever pass
>     through the event horizon from the perspective of an outside observer,

(1) is wrong, and I accept the idea ...

>     then it would take an infinite amount of time for a black hole to form
>     in the first place, and so we should never expect to find one.

It is postulated that the black forms when the strong nuclear forces
can no longer support the weight of the degenerate neutronium that
resulted from the failure of electromagnetic forces to keep the
electrons and protons apart (also due to the weight of the matter).
In the case of a supernova, there may be external forces pushing
inwards as well.

Remember: from the perspective of the matter falling into (or
originally creating) the black hole, it is a very short trip to the
singularity at the center.  Now the singularity at the center is where
all of physics falls flat on it proverbial face!  If you want to
speculate about something, explain how you think spacetime can be
infinitely curved (and matter can obtain infinite density) at the
singularity.  Compared to those mysteries, the spacetime just outside
an event horizon is mundane.

Maybe black holes are just a glitch resulting from the failure of GR
to correctly explain the world.  After all, we've never had a black
hole to experiment with.  Maybe future theories of gravitation will
not predict singularities.
--
franl@centerline.com   || Fran Litterio, CenterLine Software R&D
617-498-3255           || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110
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