From: cgd@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Chris G. Demetriou)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Open letter to LGJ (Re: Catch What They're Saying About Us...)
Date: 25 Sep 92 23:23:58
Organization: Kernel Hackers 'r' Us
	<19ta0nINNj2q@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: eden.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: wjolitz@soda.berkeley.edu's message of 24 Sep 1992 20:55:51 GMT

Yes, this is yet another response to Lynne Jolitz's flame of
Paul Vixie.  I wasn't going to post anything, but i find that,
after thinking this over for i good number of hours, I don't
see how i could avoid it.

Lynne:  What in the hell are trying to prove?

I mean, i can think of several possibilities:

	(1) that you and Bill are the best people in the entire universe.
	(2) that you really don't need any friends
	(3) that trying to do anything that would benefit your cause
		is for naught.
	(4) that you have no tact

I could go on, but honestly i don't like to flame.
I've better things to do.

But i want to answer the above points, easiest first...  Maybe you'll
read this, and realize that you should calm down a bit.

first, (4).  if you're trying to show that you've no tact,
you've done a good job.  dragging even hints of peoples' personal
lives into this, w/o their consent is enough for that...
randomly flaming damn near anything that moves, even if it's
a "friendly" could be considered tactless...

second, (2).  if you want to prove that you need no friends,
then you'll end up having none.  I did that a few years ago,
and i regret it.  It's useful to have people on your side,
who are willing to go out of their way to help you out.
flaming those people can only be counterproductive...
Tell me, would 0.1 have even gotten out the door by *now*,
if people didn't help out, w/time, equipment, etc?

third, (3).  you know, there's nothing as conducive to a sense
of satisfaction after helping somebody out, w/something or other,
than having them toast you.  yes, people out here should appreciate
what you guys have done, but you've gotta realize that there
are some people out here who busted our asses (granted, for
a smaller length of time, etc...) to get 386bsd out to the world.

lastly, the God thing...

Actually, i place this last on the list, because, in some ways,
it is the most important.  There are a lot of people out here
who look up to you and Bill.

I can tell you, when i showed up here at berkeley, I thought
that the people in CSRG were gods.  I learned that they were just
people.  I'm on a first name basis with more or less all of them,
and they're human.

and, believe it or not, Lynne, so are you and Bill.
What you've done in big, perhaps bigger than all of the rest of
the BSD stuff combined, because you got it to the people.

But you're still human, and you can make quite a fool of yourself
when you try.  When you rant the way you've been known to,
all you do is make fools of yourself and Bill, and belittle the
people who are trying to help your cause.


You can take this however you want to.  If you can honestly
think that i'm an enemy of yours, than feel free to go ahead.
Just remember this:

	I was the person who volunteered to find 0.0 an FTP
	site w/in 3 days of it's original release at the SVnet
	meeting.

	I'm the person who brought a 386bsd system to Mike
	and Kirk's 4.4 internals class, to show off to the
	people in the class... (that's how a bunch of people
	who've done much work on 386bsd were introduced to it...)

	I'm the person who got you the account that you'll
	probably flame me from.

If you think i'm not "on your side" in this entire thing,
then you probably need to think again.  But just because i'm
on your side doesn't mean i can't see your faults.

Relax a bit.  Be glad that there are people who are willing
to put in time to help you.  Because if you don't give them
a break, you'll regret it later.


Sorry this is so disorganized.  I don't like writing flames,
and am reasonably pissed off.

Chris
UCB student, one-time sysad, Sequoia kernel hacker, etc.
386bsd ftp site dude at agate.berkeley.edu
--
Chris G. Demetriou                                    cgd@cs.berkeley.edu

"Sometimes it is better to have twenty million instructions by
        Friday than twenty million instructions per second." -- Wes Clark