HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frye@cerl.uiuc.edu (G. David Frye)
Subject: Re: landing: flaps or not
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:57:53 GMT

In article <moodyblu.703211844@camelot> moodyblu@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew
Weisberg) tells us that his instructor thinks flaps are a crutch and as a
result his student training has been flapless.  He asks:

>So can someone tell me.  Are there others out there who are learning/being
>taught this way? I am curious to hear what other views are on this?

Your instructor is doing you a gross disservice and you can tell him I said
so.

Flaps are put on airplanes not as crutches, but as aids.  They make it possible
for the airplane to generate lift at slower speeds.  A slower speed on takeoff
means you leave the runway sooner.  A slower speed on landing means you come to
a stop sooner, and have less kinetic energy at touchdown.

This doesn't seem like much of an issue in your basic Cessna 150 or
Tomahawk.  You probably won't care much while you're doing all your
touch-and-goes on an 8000' concrete runway.  But effective use of flaps is a
critical flying skill after you get your certificate and transition to
larger, faster, more expen$ive aircraft, or decide to fly to small-town
airports with short, narrow runways.

Your instructor isn't (supposed to be) teaching you how to fly a two-seater.
He's teaching you how to be a pilot.  Make sure he doesn't leave something
this important out of your training.

G. David Frye, CFIAI
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: frye@cerl.uiuc.edu   NovaNET: frye / s / nova   PHONE: (217) 333-7439
   reminder:  I post all email flame back to the newsgroup that generated it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul.Barnett@f47.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Paul Barnett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Turns Coordinators And Th
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:51:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: tdkt.702808057.F00001

>The standing joke in the Graphics Hardware R&D Lab here is that
>you have to be a pilot or ham radio  operator  to get ahead (extra
>credit points for both) :-)

So, what can I get with those extra points? ;-)
 * Origin: FlightLine BBS Mpls,MN SDN USRdual 612-544-5118 (1:282/47)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Re: Landing a Skylane
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Distribution: world,local
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:05:14 GMT

In article <6APR199210440026@misvax.mis.arizona.edu>, smithcap@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (Cap Smith) writes:


|> The implied message is that messing with the power is a sign of
|> poor piloting.  In other words, a *real* pilot sets power once
|> and gets on with the landing.

I wouldn't agree with this statement, but then that wasn't the point
of Cap's posting...

|> Well, I've got about 50 hours now in my new-to-me C-182, and I haven't
|> been able to replicate this "don't mess with the power" philosophy.
|> The Skylane seems to need a significant power reduction in order to
|> initiate a descent.  Then, with the flaps hung out, it needs a bunch
|> of nose-down trim to maintain a speed of, say, 75mph.  From this
|> nose down attitude, I haven't been able to get it to flare without
|> adding power. (we're talking nose-heavy here)  I don't have any
|> desire to bonk the nose wheel, so I add a bit of power before
|> flaring, which causes me to balloon, .... and so forth.
|> 
|> I've tried various speeds on final, ranging from 60-80mph IAS.
|> So, what's the secret, Skylane drivers?  How does one land a 
|> Skylane with *panache*? 

Well, I don't fly Skylanes as regularly as I'd like to, but when I
do land them the secret seems to be in the flaps setting.  That big
honkin' 6 cyl. engine up front tends to make the Skylane nose heavy
and hard to flare.  If it's just me and a front seat passenger, I land
with 20 degrees of flap.  I only throw in the other 20 degrees if I 
have weight in the back.  The reason is that, with full flaps, you have
to achieve a greater nose-down attitude to keep your airspeed where you
want it.  As a result, it is harder to get a good flare at the end and
there's a tendency to hit nose first.  With less flaps, there's less
of a flare needed.  

On the other topic of messing with power, that might be ideal for a
calm day but on a blustery day, or if you have to go in and out of a
slip to deal with a cross wind you're going to mess with power a fair
amount of the time whether you wanted to or not, no matter how well
you thought you were set up.  At least that's been my experience...

-- 

	Jim Burke				
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
From: dfrey@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (David Frey)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Rec Aviation Patches
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:01:51 GMT
Reply-To: dfrey@bigbird.csd.scarolina.edu
Organization: Univ. of South Carolina, Columbia

Margaret and Bret:

The patches are great!
Thanks for all the hard work! Can't wait to wear mine to the next fly-in.
Maybe I'll meet a "lurker" or two! Anyway, it will be a great conversation
starter.
Thanks again.

David
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Panel Mount Intercoms - Request Advice
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:08:37 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Apr3.144605.6092@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
 (howard.page) writes:
>
>I have a panel mount Telex - no complaints. Among it's features
>is the ability play tunes from my Walkman. The music is muted
>automagically when anyone or ATC talks.... Very Nice.
                    ^^^^^^
That "feature" drives me nuts!  I've found it has the effect of discouraging
passengers from conversing, because they music annoyingly clicks on and off
behind them.  My "brand F" intercom has a great mode switch which lets you
say "mute when ATC talks, but leave the music on when pax or pilot are 
chatting."  Humans are quite good at holding conversations while music is
playing in the background.  Just think, if we couldn't bars & parties would
be much quieter!

--Andy    stadler@apple.com
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Marine1 flies IFR without approach navaids
Date: 27 Mar 92 22:24:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: apple.64416
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Mar26.200726.7019@nlm.nih.gov> masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel
 R. Masys) writes:

>One of the minor perks of my job is that my office windows overlook the
>helipad at the Bethesda Naval Hospital where the President's helicopter
>lands.  The procedure happens 4 or 5 times a year and is quite standard:
>local police block off Rockville Pike (a major thoroughfare and thus a
>major nuisance when closed), a few minutes later the first helicopter
>crosses low over our building and lands in the grass, then 2-3 minutes
>later the Prez's copter touches down on the paved heliport.  Heretofore
>always in VFR conditions.
>

Lemme get this straight:  Your office window overlooks a field where the P.
regularly arrives and departs via Marine 1?  Hmmm....  Any grassy knolls
nearby?  (Just think, you could be the subject of "The Lone Airman Theory")

--Andy

P.S.  If you ever wondered if the govt monitors the net, this ought to answer
      it....   :)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann)
Subject: ALL ABOUT TRANSPONDERS -N- MORE
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 01:47:08 GMT

First: Many many thanks to everyone who responded to my request regarding
the output of altitude encoders.  I tried to answer each of the emails,
but there were just too many.  So, THANKS AGAIN ALL!!!!

Essentially, the output of the encoder is a type of grey code.  This is a
code in which there is only one bit change in each step of the code.

I've completed the software in 'C' for my encoder display unit, and I'm
just now getting back to the hardware.  (I've been in the middle of a long
distance move...yuck...)  After I get this critter all debugged and finished,
I'll post a full description/schematics/software for anyone else who is 
interested in knowing exactly what his/her encoder is sending down to ATC.
I've been asked to post the schematics for the hardware in an IBM graphics
format.  I don't currently own an IBM however so I'm going to post in IFF
format from my Amiga.  There are several IBM programs which will convert 
this format to something usable to non Amiga owners.  I'll leave the conversion
up to someone else.  I'm considering laying out a PCB if enought people are
interested in building a display.  Please don't send email quite yet.  I'll
follow this up later with an address at which you can get one.  I'll sell
the boards at my cost (assuming I decide to lay one out) or you can always
wire-wrap one up.  

-- disclaimer --
This display is only to be used for testing purposes.  It has not been
approved by anyone for anything.  I just wanted to know that my MODE-C
setup was working properly.  Any use other than for testing is probably
in violation of some obscure FAR... :-)  (The rest is up to you)

Chris
Ercoupe 3940H          <- Slow, cheap, and fun
Aero Commander 4186B   <- Wowzers, I wish I could afford to fly it

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: How do you cope with turbulence?
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:36:49 GMT

I don't necessarily get motion sick, but during PP training I was
exceptionally nervous about flying thru turbulence (that old "the
wings are going to fall off" feeling).  What cured me?  The last
leg of my long cross country:  from Peoria to Palwaukee (Chicago)
in continuous light turbulence.  There was a broken ceiling that
I could not get above and everything underneath it was bumpy.  It
was mild but relentless.  I really learned how to fly in turbulence
that day, because I had to do it for over an hour.

So my advice:  push yourself.  Go out on a light bumpy day and fly
for awhile.  Just to be safe, tho, don't take any passengers.  The
only way you can extend your limits is by pushing them.

		William LeFebvre
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: Cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark T. Evert)
Subject: Re: Deafness in one ear
Organization: Loral Space Information Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:09:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.132047.23490@bony1.bony.com> richieb@bony1.bony.com 
(Richard Bielak) writes:
> I know someone who wants to start flying lessons ASAP, however, he is
> deaf in one ear.  Can he get a III class medical?

As long as he can hear a whispered voice at 3 feet, he should pass.  I am 
mostly deaf in my right ear and have gone through several medicals with no 
problems and the examiners were aware of my deafness.

Mark T. Evert

Cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov
(713) 282-5525
From: rah@btr.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Air Usenet patches now shipping!
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:03:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <1998@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
|In article <1992Apr7.053044.18941@bang.uucp>, bam@bang.uucp (Bret A. Marquis) writes:
|> 
|> Yes, there is indeed significance to the letter n in that particular
|> context.
|> 
|
|Sooooo, what is it?
|

How about: "Press n for next article"  ?  :-)


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ddb0248@mcnews.mcdata.com (David Beal)
Subject: A different kind of hijacking story
Organization: McDATA Corp.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:26:37 GMT

Perhaps this seems a little callous in light of Greg's recent experience,
but it reminds me of a true story that my instructor told me recently.

A student pilot on a solo cross-country through the Denver TCA had neglected
to turn on mode C.  Denver Approach asked him to "squawk altitude". 
Misunderstanding the terminology, he looked at his altimeter,
saw 7500', and dialed those numbers into his transponder.
When the controller conscientiously asked him to "verify squawk 7500", he
confidently replied, "Affirmative, squawking 7500".  He continued the
(apparently) uneventful flight, landed, and was quite surprised to find FBI
officers pointing guns at his airplane when he taxied up to park.

Just in case you thought that the AIM section on "standard phraseology"
wasn't important...

- Dave Beal
  (World's highest time student pilot.  Don't ask.)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: moodyblu@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Weisberg)
Subject: landing: flaps or not
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:37:24 GMT


I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and brought up the subject
of landing and I said that my instructor has been teching me to land
without using flaps (cessna 152 adn 172).  She was suprised as was another
instructor I had back in Detroit.  He said if they are there, why not use
them.  I inquried with my instructor about this and he said flaps are a
crutch and that you should learn without them and then you can use them if
yuou need them.  So far, in my 55 hours most of my landings have been
flapless.  Although, we have done flap landings too.

So can someone tell me.  Are there others out there who are learning/being
taught this way? I am curious to hear what other views are on this?

Matt


--
===============================================================================
| Matt Weisberg, KF8OH        MILLIWAYS - Computers, Peripherals & Consulting |
| moodyblu@camelot.bradley.edu            Authorized Altima & D-Link Dealer   |
| Packet: KF8OH @ N9HWO                         Southfield, Michigan          |
|              Voice: (313) 350-0503    BBS: (313) 553-9274
===============================================================================
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: ILS approach to subminimum conditions
Keywords: minimums
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:34:38 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <1992Apr2.214912.13909@ichips.intel.com>, papworth@pdx022 (David Papworth) writes:
> The 135 and 121 folks often have lower minimum visibility requirements
> that what is published on the approach plates. (I believe that the air 
> carrier certification papers can specify lower than standard take-off 
> and approach minimums, provided the carrier meets certain equipment
> and pilot training requirements. This is on a per-carrier and 
> per-airport and approach basis.)
> 
> This seems to give rise to "heard-on-the-air RVR bargaining". 
> 
> Carrier XXX: "Portland Approach: Carrier XXX checking in at 10000."
> 
> ATC: "Carrier XXX, Runway 10L RVR is now 1200 threshold, 1400 midpoint,
>       1200 rollout". What RVR do you need?"
> 
> Carrier XXX: "1500"

You may or may not be right about this, I can't tell you because we're
not attempting IFR certification for our 135 operation at this time.

In general, however, it's very frustrating to try to write a 135 manual.
(I suspect the same is true for 121). Although there are regulations which
spell out what you may or may not do, the FAA seems to want to give you a
lot of lattitude in how you set up your operation. They don't want to tell
you how to run your organization. Thus they are actively discouraged from
giving you suggestion on how to structure your company. Of course, they
will review it and turn you down if they don't like it!

Thus I would continually have discussions like:

me:	Is this negotiable? Can we get a deviation on this regulation?

faa:	That's not up to me to say. If you think you want that, you should
	word it that way in your air carrier operations manual.

me:	Well, if I do that, is it likely to get thrown right back at me?

faa:	That's difficult to say. It might, but then again it might not.

me:	So you really can't give me any guidlines whether this is acceptable
	or not?

faa:	That's right.

It's so fluid and flexible it's difficult to tell what you can and can not
get away with.

In general, though, you can make your manual *more* restrictive than the
FAA regulations, but not less restrictive. If FAA requires 1/2 mile
visibility for nightime VFR, it's okay for you to impose a 1 mile
requirement, but you can't just randomly decide to require 1/4 mile.
However, if you want to, you can try to get a deviation from this
requirement. Whether FAA will grant it or not is another matter.

					PC
-- 
cantrell@sequoia.com
From: bam@bang.uucp (Bret A. Marquis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Air race (was: AIR USENET Patches
Date: 12 Apr 92 06:42:45 GMT
Organization: Marquis Property Development Co., San Diego

In article <1992Apr10.040545.10237@marlin.jcu.edu.au> ccrdb@marlin.jcu.edu.au writes:
>Brett,
>	the patches are better than we expected! Can't believe the
>colors - beaut!!!  thank-you for that. Australia is somewhere on the
>other side of the patch, right? No they're great, just kidding!

Just turn the patch over, you can see Australia on the back side!
>
>
>	Best of luck with the Venture! Hope to race you (or watch you
>whizz past me) sometime,
>


An owner built and flown Venture won this years SunNFun, Sun 100 race.  
Won with an average speed from brake release at 301.43 mph.  Does 
anyone know what the rest of the results were?


Bret
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: steveg@zehntel (Steve Gallagher)
Subject: Unsolved mysteries
Reply-To: steveg@zehntel (Steve Gallagher)
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:09:01 GMT

	When I was a kid (early 60's), growing up in the Palo Alto area,
my brother and I used to scan the AM band listening to various stations.
At the low end of the band, actually below 540 KHz, we used to pick up a
Morse code identifier. Not knowing what it was, we decided it must be an
SOS from a sinking ship. 

While scanning a Loran database recently, I noticed a few NDB's at about
530 KHz; all located in Alaska and the Midwest. This got me thinking about
that sinking ship and since I still remember the Morse code, I sat down and
figured out the identifier (SRF). Going back to the Loran book, I found that
the now-closed Hamilton Air Force base in San Rafael used SRF for the airport
identifier.

Does anyone know if Hamilton had an NDB approach and what the frequency was?

Help solve this mystery! Thanks,

Steve Gallagher
From: Steve_M_Kile@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: RE: Air Usenet Patches
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 21:48:22 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

I was the original poster asking the question about the N, n or however else
you wish to draw it letter on the Air Usenet patches.  I tried to e-mail Bret
to get the answer to my question but it bounced.

I don't care if you think it is upper case, lower case, bold or italics but th
"N" is definitely reversed.  WHY??  It is an easy question which I am sure has
an easy answer.  I've been reading this newsgroup for several years and either
I am missing something or it is not clearly obvious.  PLEASE... someone what
is the answer?  Thank you.

Steve
----
steve_m_kile@cup.portal.com  stevek@netcom.com  steve@biomed.vware.mn.org
From: wisch@Apple.COM (Ed Wischmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Autogas for 160HP Lycomings may be okay
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:21:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: apple.65489
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


 Regarding Lycoming O-320 engines and avgas, I have been told that not
all 160HP engines require 100LL gas. For example, my engine is an
O320-B3B, originally in an Apache, and was originally designed for
91/96 octane avgas. (For a while, the 4 common grades were 80/87, red,
91/96, blue, 100/115, green, and 130/145, purple). My 91/96 O320 will,
I am told, run just fine on high test auto fuel. I am also told that for
an experimental aircraft, you do not need an STC to do this. After all,
if your airplane has no Type Certificate, how could you get a Supplemental
Type Certificate (STC)?

Of course, at this point, I would be real happy if the ARSA Fighter engine
were running on *any* kind of gas. Real soon, now. For sure. I do have about 17 gallons of vintage, carefully aged 100LL left from when I drained the
old tanks, though...

Ed Wischmeyer
From: greg@uts.amdahl.com (Greg Bullough)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Places for first jump
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:47:50 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

If someone had the urge to jump out of a perfectly good airplane,
where in the greater Bay Area would folks who have done it recommend?

Greg
From: davidg@interop.com (David Gimpelevich)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Panel Mount Intercoms - Request Advice
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:50:15 GMT
Organization: Interop Company, Mountian View, CA

In article <64926@apple.Apple.COM> stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler) writes:
>behind them.  My "brand F" intercom has a great mode switch which lets you
>say "mute when ATC talks, but leave the music on when pax or pilot are 
>chatting."  Humans are quite good at holding conversations while music is

So who's "brand F"?
-- 

                                        David Gimpelevich
                                       	Interop Company
                                        davidg@interop.com
From: best@anasaz (Mike Best)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Do-it-yourself airplanes
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:09:01 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <1992Apr3.164624.143@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu> ajkavie@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu writes:
>
>Andrew Kavie
>Wichita State University
>
>P.S.  I like all this talk about homebuilts.  I think they will be the next
>wave of general aviation aircraft.

Yes, we may become a nation of "prosumers" wherein we will be both producing
and consuming at the same time.  This is definitely true of General Aviation
in light of the estimate that this year twice as many sets of plans will
be bought as all of general aviation will produce (From WSJ).

Mike Best
{mcdphx|asuvax}!anasaz!best
From: hastie@alta.mips.com (Glenn Hastie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: I thought I saw a F86
Date: 13 Apr 1992 22:47:38 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hastie@alta.mips.com (Glenn Hastie)
NNTP-Posting-Host: alta.mips.com

In article <92103.131306AI4CPHYW@MIAMIU.BITNET>, AI4CPHYW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
|> I was out today (Saturday) working on my car and I saw what I think
|> was a F86 fighter.  It had cruciform wings (they were at a 90 degree
|> angle to the fuselage, not swept at all) with a large football shaped
|> object at each wing tip.  It had a single tail with control surfaces
|> at the top of the rudder.  And it was jet powered, but with no visible
|> engine (the engine was contained within the fuselage I guess). I got
|> a pretty good look at it because the pilot made several relatively low
|> passes over the town.
|>  

I'll probably embarass myself with getting the ID wrong, but it may have
been a T33.  I believe the Red Knight, popular at airshows, is a T33.  Even
if I have the identifier wrong, the aircraft I'm thinking of has straight wings.
The intakes for the jet engines are right at the wing root leading edge, and the
exhaust is right near the wing root trailing edge.  Always seen with wingtip
auxilliary tanks, shaped more like a cigar than a football.  Dual side-by-side
seating under a bubble canopy.  The aircraft wingspan appears to be about
equal to the length.  In my mind, one of the prettiest aircraft around.  There is
little that can surpass the beauty of the Red Knight against a blue sky.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn I. Hastie	  (408) 524-7431	MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
MS 6-01					930 DeGuigne Dr.
hastie@mips.com				Sunnyvale, CA  94086