HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: NEWSWEEK POLL: Plurality of Americans support GAY RIGHTS
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:13:15 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss

Ellen (elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu) (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:

>Alan (Batie) writes:

>>This is a Must Read issue of Newsweek --- it has a very good cover story
>>on the issue of gay rights....

>Perhaps possibly, just possibly, the boycott in 1987-88 affected
>_Newsweek_ just a little?

What was the boycott?

Whatever happened to the _Newsweek_ that did the great cover story on lesbigay
teenagers sometime back when (early '80s, I think)?

>Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Joel Edward Parthemore              hecateae@cs.man.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: GLB contacts in Moscow?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:07:34 GMT

I'm going to Moscow next week, to stay for three months, and I'd
really appreciate any help towards locating GLB groups/people there.

I might have posted this to one of the .soviet groups, but ummm...
it's a little flamey over there.

Also, I plan to carry lots of subversive lesbian propaganda in my luggage.
The last time I went, they just waved me through customs (nowadays any
hard currency entering the country is welcome, almost) but I'm still
feeling a little wary. Any advice?

Thanks,

-patricia@cco.caltech.edu


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ben@netcom.com (benny f. p. sevilla)
Subject: Re: sexuality as a private matter
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 00:58:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase) writes:
: In article <1992Aug30.143002.24300@cis.ohio-state.edu>
: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
: 
:    the notion of "best friends" - quite widespread in the working class
:    and lower middle class, in the u.s., anyway - is interesting in
:    itself.  in the u.s., a woman refers to another woman who bears
:    this relationship to her as her "girlfriend"
: 
: There may also be something generational about this as well.  A friend
: <<  other stuff deleted  >>

	there may also be something cultural about it.

	About 10 years ago, I was talking with about 5 or 6 people
	concerning our best friends;  one of the women said she had
	a lot of girl friends but she only had one boy friend.  My 
	friend BBB(Chinese) said he had a few girlfriend but he also one
	boy friend - me;  and his girl friend AAA jumped back and said
	"Benny is not your boyfriend, he is your best friend, 
	 but not your boy friend. I AM your girlfriend - you don't
	 have other girlfriends and you  don't have any boy friends!"
	 Startled, my friend insisted that I was his boy friend and
	 AAA was his girlfriend;  And the rest except me said "NOT
	 IN AMERICA - YOU DON'T".   Being as naive as BBB  I asked them
	why everybody seemed to be agitated by BBB's innocent remarks
	and they told me and BBB why.  Stubbornly, BBB said that he didn't
	care what they said and the conversation ended at that..

	BBB has two children now and still as far as he is concerned, 
	I am his boyfriend.
: 
: 	Penny
: 
: 
	Benny
: --
: UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
: INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
-- 

ben p. sevilla   home --- 510 671-2424   ....!pacbell!ptsfa!bpsevil
		 data --- 510-686-3941   ....ben@netcom.com (preferred e-mail)
                 work --- 510 823-0506   ....bpsevil@ptsfa.PacBell.COM
		 this is by me, of me and for me   and no one else
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on taste (was: Re: Tastes and Prejudice)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 02:54:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <188uufINNjj0@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.194909.3770@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
>
>I realize that I also have an opinion on taste. It is based,
>in part, on a paper on taste acquisition in children.
>There was a study on the acquisition of taste preferences for
>an unfamiliar food using children as the subjects. The food
>chosen was tofu, and it was presented to children in three subject
>groups as either, plain, salted, or sweetened. The results showed
>that while the children did not particularly care for the tofu
>on initial exposure, after repeated exposure to the variety of their
>subject group, they developed a preference (a taste, if you will)
>for that particular variety of tofu, and an aversion for the other
>varieties.      

>Similarly, I believe that
>tastes, in general, cannot be right or wrong. It may be that your
>preference for a particular body type, odor, etc. is based on
>your first few exposures. In subsequent exposures, you are likely
>to reinforce that preference by choosing the person that conforms
>to your tastes. Unless this strategy yields a bad experience, you
>may never develop a taste for different persons.

>     The above experiment also suggests that one can develop new
>tastes by several exposures to a novel stimulus. Notice that this
>does not require you to give up any of your old tastes and preferences.
>Unlike prejudice, in which exposure to different experiences may
>result in a re-evaluation of past positions, holding a variety
>of differing tastes does not give rise to contradictions.

I agree about the arationality of taste and taste development, but
the most compelling theory I ever encountered on the acquisition
and maintenance of state was by George Stigler and Gary Becker at
UChicago. They concur with empirical psychologists regarding the 
evolution of taste but they claim that once achieved, taste is
like capital-- you are loathe to discard it in favor of a future
unknown quality.

Therefore new stimuli may prevail in some cases, but generally
existing preferences (and their hierarchy) remain with us, with
age more strongly correlated to a failure of change in tastes
than youth. 


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Dear Miss Manners
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:05:39 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca


Dear Miss Manners,

What is the proper code of conduct for when one is passing strangers in  
the hall of a bathhouse? Courtesy would dictate that eye contact be  
acknowledged with a smile or some gesture of recognition. However, such  
tokens are often taken to indicate sexual interest, and the last thing one  
wants is to be perceived as a "tease". A similar dilemma arises when a  
stranger appears at the door of my room; how can I be cordial without  
inviting him in? Please suggest some means of being polite to those with  
whom we do not wish to invest our precious bodily fluids. Call me...

			-Vexed in Vancouver



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Hate mail
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:40:17 GMT
Summary: actually ...

In article <1992Sep13.221822.5215@panix.com>, ro@panix.com (r l reid) writes:

> I think the next NYC one should be picnic on the pier, brings your own

That's an *ongerful* idea, even though I dearly love Szechuan food.
Mustn't get into a rut (hmm -- that seems to be poor phrasing;  I
mean the *non*sexual kind of rut :-))

> and enough to share.  And MINE is PB&J, without apologies. Homma
> IKE dassa PB&J.

with a dog scratching in the background :-)  I rather like PB&J myself,
but wouldn't trust any one else's instantiation thereof ...
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."
Xref: sparky soc.motss:39009 talk.politics.misc:45272 ca.politics:7744
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Harrassing Phone Calls Can Stop NOW!
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:22:04 GMT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
> In article <1992Sep10.154451.1822@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
> # I'd vote for it...
> 
> So would I.  Of course, I think I would prefer to remove marriage
> from the government's involvement completely.  The state sanctioning
> of a religious rite seems a little questionable on First Amendment
> grounds.
> 
> Equal protection from police?  You've got it now -- which is to
> say, straights aren't safe either.  My brother-in-law's wife was
> thrown to the ground, kicked and punched repeatedly, with cracked
> ribs, concussion, bruises, etc.  The police arrived 90 minutes 
> later, there was a stack of witnesses attending the same picnic,
> and they weren't particularly interested in pursuing the criminals
> who did it.
> -- 
> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
> Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
> prohibition won't work.

Unbelievable bullshit.

First of all, why do you refer to your sister as your
"brother-in-law's wife?"  Nobody talks like that.  You made it up.  Or
else your sister is married to a polygamist.

Secondly, why were all your relatives standing around at this picnic
in broad daylight watching your sister get beat up?  Or do your
relatives have picnics in dark alleys after midnight?  Oh, I see - it
must have been a Kramer Klan Konklave, huh?

Lastly, didn't anybody have a gun?  No?  I thought you'd have given
your sister a .38 for her wedding present.

You're so full of shit, your eyes are brown.  But I got a good laugh
out of it.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us
[] Long Beach, California
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: sunglasses and hats
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:44:07 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>i, too, am a sun-sneezer.  well, any bright light.  on first
>exposure to bright light, i give two or three hearty sneezes,
>causing people who don't know me well to worry that i'm
>coming down with a cold or something.

Oh, but don't it feel good, though? So *explosive*!

--
John Dorrance  * Don't fuck with Ms. Congeniality *  thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

	Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders
	     what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
Xref: sparky soc.motss:39031 soc.bi:12273
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: If you haven't sent your checks to no-on-hate yet, do it!
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:24:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42706
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Sep14.135303.1899@castle.org> nomad@castle.org (Lee Damon) writes:
>The UPI reports today that Pat Robertson's organization ("Christian
>Coalition") has donated $20,000 (that's twenty-thousand dollars folks)
>to "the cause" (measure 9 - anti-gay measure in Oregon).
>They are also "launching an Oregon chapter to recruit voters through
>churches."

There is worse news...

A story in the Oregonian on the same subject goes on to mention
that the Christian Coalition intends to come to Oregon and spend their
own money to help get out the "Christian" vote if there is even
the slightest chance that Measure 9 might not pass.  The article goes
on to state that the CC is execmpt from reporting rules as they are
an 'educational' voters group.  So no one can find out how they spend
their money even though they are tax exempt.

--mark
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The liberal media
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:09:09 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <17tprlINN8mo@agate.berkeley.edu> 
 ye@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Gordon Ye) blathers:
>>It's a wonderful parallel - the OCA, and some survivalist fanatic who
>>is trying to kill federal marshals. Both religiously motivated.
>>-- 
>Somehow to me this resembles the plight of [those] hunted down and
>persecuted by the same federal marchals for defiantly believing in
>alternative ideals.

His "alternative ideals" involve killing everyone who is not straight,
white, and Christian.  You're out on at least two counts, Ye.

>...the society is probably better off if everybody has and fights for 
>his/her political beliefs.

Why don't you go first?  Better make sure that automatic is loaded!

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "I really pity the homo who thinks the issue of his own survival is
   just another debatable opinion."  --Eric Holeman
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Straight Stereotypes (was Re: To Laura)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:03:31 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1992Sep10.010740.18151@microsoft.com> 
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

> Why should gays engage in practiced, deliberate behavior 
> that plays right into the hands' of straight stereotypes?


(adolphso)
/Hmmmm.  I don't know.  Why *should* gay men engage in practiced,
/deliberate behavior (oh, think of cigars, beer kegs, potato
/chips, a rowdy poker game) that is stereotypically straight?

They shouldn't. Not if it isn't fun or enjoyable for them.  But there
are thousands of behaviors that people can engage in; by saying that
someone shouldn't engage in two or three of them, that is by no means
chopping off their only source of entertainment.


(adolphso)
/That is what "plays right into the hands' of straight stereotypes"
/means, isn't it?  (Hands'?) 

No it doesn't mean that.


(adolphso)
/Or are you asking why gay men would engage in practiced, deliberate 
/behavior that happens to bother straight men 

No I am not asking that.  I am asking what good does it do to bring
to life all the stereotypes that people have about gays.

If there were a TV show that featured a gay character, and the individual
was written into the script to be nelly, campy, etc. the gay community
would react in protest, saying that the show "furthered negative
stereotypes and fueld homophobia".  

I have seen mail-in campaigns over this kind of stuff before.  If there 
were such a show right now, I am sure that some of the soc.motss folks would 
be among the first to call the network and complain.

How can some gays insist that such behavior is OK and not up for 
examination, then turn around and complain when a TV show has a character 
portraying that same behavior?


(adolphso)
/who are stereotypically 
/straight (who, therefore,engage in practiced, deliberate behavior)?

No they are not.  Most do it because they like it, not as an 
attention-getting mechanism, or a way to piss people off.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: World's First Known Bottom Found in Alps
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:44:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep10.144413.28358
Organization: insert anything here

In article <BuCzuA.9z8@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>How does anybody know he wasn't raped and killed?

>All we know is that there was sperm up his rectum when he died. Saying
>anything else about it - even about how it got there - is pure
>speculation.

	Exactly - so I'm going with the most likely sceneario.
Why aren't you?

BBC
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Publicity
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:31:47 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: llnl

In article <1992Sep8.130701.25709@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) wrote:

> In article <1992Sep8.093855.8919@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

> >joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project) answers
> > >       cabal member in training (but with a ways to go yet)
> >
> >There is _no_ cabal.  

> Pay no attention to the people behind the curtain.
                          ^^^^^^
                          (shouldn't that be "pods"?)

Oops, forget I asked! There are no pods. Trust me. Just ignore that
rustling sound you think you hear behind you. It's not a pod. Really.

Just repeat after me:

"There are no pods. There is no cabal."
"There are no pods. There is no cabal."
"There are no pods. There is no cabal."

There! Don't you feel much *better* now?


> Ry Schwark


TDO

--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: advice sought: handling on-street harassment
Date: Sun,  6 Sep 92 23:18:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

> What, if anything, of a legal, political, tactical or organizational nature
> can be done about such occurences?  Can they be arrested for assault, sued,
> reported to the police or city hall?  [...]

Get a bunch of people together.  Surround them.  Have the women start
singing loudly "Fuck God, Fuck God, Fuck God Dead."  Have the men start
chanting "Prince of evil!  Lord of Darkness!  Eater of Christian
babies!  Our Master Below!  Hail Satan!  Hail Satan!"  Play accordians.

That should drive the pests off.

--Tim Smith
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: YAT (Yet Another Thread)
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:35:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep10.143513.27304
Organization: insert anything here

In article <42590@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>Bobby, you have become a bore.  You just aren't worth the time here anymore.
>However, since we are going to be having a mini-con in Seattle in October,
>you will have a chance to be a bore in person.  I do hope you have the
>intestinal fortitude to show, I am looking sooo forward to having a manly
>chat with you.

	Hey, *I'm* the resident Bobby here...  :-)

	I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall for the Seattle mini-con.
No, screw that, I really wish I could attend.

>Of course, you wouldn't be too scared of us nelly queens to make an
>appearance and perhaps a statement, would you, Bobby?

	Of course he can't.  It would run the risk of destroying his
world view, since in meeting the people he's built up this fantasy
about, he'd be stuck with the paradox that "butch men like him"
don't follow the same path to's chosen to lead, and actually
don't have the same set of sociological insecurites he wears on
his sleeve.

	The whole idea of e-arguing is that you can "fill in" detail
about your opponent to fuel your invective.  Classic examples:  BS
and Melmac don't like nelly queens.  Therefore everyone who argues
with them becomes a nelly queen.  Oneof the biggest laughs of this whole
escapade has been looking at the characters involved and, having
met these people, knowing that nearly all of them dwell in nelly queen
nadir (with occasional flashes of camp, but that's a distinction higher
on the evolutionary scale than BS or MM has achieved yet).  

	And what's the point - he probably couldn't get the tune for
the Moose Song even after the 10th or 11th verse....


	Actually, I have a hard time even thinking of who among
the motssiti best exemplfies a nelly queen.  For the most part,
I just lump everyone as motss-folks, since this is our common source
and everything after that I consider individual personality.
I suppose also I think that just about everyone is too complex to 
pigeon-hole into one stereotype...

	But of course this is why BS and MM started off on the
wrong claw in the first place....

BBC
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What is virginity?
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:39:10 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <thaaang.715677636@cwis> 
 thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>... Jesus. My first time:
>Being in a large group of people and feeling like I could have *any*
>	*one* of them if I really put my mind to it (*very* egotist-
>	ical of me, but...)

Was that "people" or "men," John?

(I heard dark tales about those gatherings which managed to have no
 women present...  :))

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: Re: boobs
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:40:45 GMT

[Kevin] crombie@iisat.alt.ns.ca writes:
>Who passing through Nova Scotia hasn't stopped to have their photo taken
>in front of the sign comemorating "Acadian Dykes."


Reminds me of the time I was driving to San Antonio. I just had to
have picture of me leaning against the sign which read:

Woman Hollerin' Creek



This creek is just east of San Antonio. I-10 goes right across it.



Rendell
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Cops and 60 Minutes
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:27:07 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep15.001438.26765@microsoft.com> 
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

[...]
|  Mike Wallace said, "But we've all seen the gay pride parades with
| the prancing and mincing around, people acting out roles and such".  The
| response was "But they're only a tiny minority of our community.  They
| don't represent the mainstream.  WE ARE the mainstream."
|
| It is so nice to have someone else state exactly what I have been 
| saying.

Oh, puh-leeze.  That is *not* what you've been saying.
What you've been saying is that nellies and drag queens
and the like are unnatural and bad and that the gay/lesbian
community will not be tolerated by straights until we drive
the nellies and drags out into the wilderness.

Arne
From: buckmr@vccnw02.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Willem Dafoe's Penis (was Madonna's next film )
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:19:58 GMT

kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:

>>>     William DeFoe
>>I think it's "Willam."
>>(Don't you hate nit-pickers?)

>Gee, I sure do.  Especially when it's "Willem Dafoe".
This is correct. The date of release of the movie is January 23, 1993.

I was wondering if people could either confirm or deny the rumor [seen in print
in both QW and The ADVOCATE that Willem Dafoe is *very* well-endowed and that
this will become apparent in the movie BODY OF EVIDENCE with Madonna. The fact
of Mr. Dafoe's distended member is said to have disturbed filming of the cross
scene in LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST because it kept getting in the way...

[cross-posted to soc.motss and rec.arts.movies]

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
According to SPY Magazine, George Bush has had extra-marital sex with 6 women.
The one they named is JENNIFER FITZGERALD.
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Paging Ron Rizzo...
Keywords: Third time's the charm?
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:01:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vpnet Public Access

In article <87884@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
>
>If you're reading this, Ron, drop me a note at my e-mail address below (or,
>if you prefer paper, to 1214 Waverly Walk  #304, Philadelphia, PA  19147),
>and let me know how you're doing.

    And if you're reading this, Ron, I've sent you mail three times.
    Is everything okay?  Did I do something wrong?

--
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Xref: sparky soc.motss:39093 alt.politics.homosexuality:5993