From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:30:09 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <8ybmb#=.damiel@netcom.com>, damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos) writes:
# In <1992Jul19.061249.21042@athena.mit.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
# #impersonate an officer.  What's the point?  No, it's not just to be
# #cool.  (Not a bad side effect, though :-)  If you got into armed conflict or
# #had to hold a perp for the police, you could clip the badge onto your belt
# #and it might prevent you from being accidently shot by the first boys who
# #showed up.  What's worse--getting mistakenly shot by the cops, or getting a
# #fine for impersonating an officer?  (If they decided to pursue it at all.)
# #In other words, the badge would be unquestionably legal until you pulled
# #it out and used it as a "don't shoot me" sign.
# 
# two points: undercover/plainclothes cops are shot all the time by their
# brothers in blue. in a threat situation, unless you have thirty seven eleven
# items dangling from a black mesh belt, and are wearing a distinct uniform,
# you will be considered a threat, badge or no badge. what if the cops arrive
# from behind you? last thing you want to do is turn, while holding a gun, to
# expose your badge - you can count on being shot then.

IMHO, there are three situations to consider when avoding being shot by
cops: (1) you have the perp under arrest, (2) the perp has been shot, but
is still alive, or (3) the perp is dead.

#1 premise: keep the gun holstered until you are forced to use it.

Sit (1):  have the perp standing 5-10 feet in front of you with his
back to you and his hands in the air: if the local cops would shoot
the gun holder in this situation, you need to move.

Sit (3): Approach the body, remove his weapon, retreat (with the weapon
constantly pointed at the body) then holster the gun.  Criminals do 
not approach dead or dying bodies to remove guns, nor do they retreat
with guns pointed at a body: criminals shoot and leave.  Again, if the
local cops would show up and shoot you under these situations, move!

Sit (2): This one should never happen -- if it does you should spend
more time at the range.  In any case, keep your weapon pointed at the
suspect (if you feel he may still be a threat) or holster it.

Most important in all situations is to avoid the instinctive turn towards
the arriving police cars.  Again, if your local cops will shoot you
in the back because you have a gun, you really *really* oughta move!


# secondly, in any and all self-defense shootings, you can absolutely count
# on being sued in civil court by the perp and/or his family. at the least,

What the hell kind of pinko-commie place do you live in?  Arizona law 
pre-empts the success of any such civil suit if the shooting was deemed
justified by the police, the DA, the jury, or the judge.

# there will be a note made in the police records that you donned a badge.
# at worst, you'll be charged with impersonating an officer.

That is quite likely to happen.

# much will be made of this fact in civil court. the prosecution will
# paint you as a "cop wanna be", mentally imbalanced, unable to leave
# law enforcement to the professionals, etc etc ad nauseum. its never a
# good idea to give the opposition something to work with.

God I'm glad to be in Arizona!  Thanks for the posting -- I was just 
beginning to get real irritated with the 108-110 temps this month.

I'd rather sweat from heat than sweat from fear!

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda