From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Catharine MacKinnon, Playboy and feminist propaganda
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:17:02 GMT
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:

>What is wrong other than the fact that you seem to feel that it should be
>different? And -everything- is objectified, it is more than a non-issue,
>it is a non-sequitor. (sp?)

Well, that's a bit of an overstatement, but it's true, by the way
"objectified" is overused these days, it does seem to boil down to that.

Digression:

I had a first hand experience in objectification one time, and it was
quite intense.  Basically, my hubby was in a photojournalism class.
His final project was to document a day in the life of rini.  This
actually took like three weeks.  Day in and day out, the guy followed
me around with a camera.  He never looked at *me*, but he looked at
the light on my skin, and the silhouette of my body, the composition
of my hand gestures.  Talk about objectification!  Ag!  It was awful!
Boy, was that a tough time on the ol' marriage.  Anyway, that's what
*I* take to be objectification.  It's a real powerful thing, and, I 
think, fairly rare.

End digression.

>>But the pornography is a symptom, not the illness itself.  And it's not just
>>a symptom of an illness in a few people who are going to be sick with or
>>without porno.  It's a symptom of an illness in society as a whole.  Please
>>note that I am still talking about the INEQUALITY of porno, not the 
>>existence.
 
>"INEQUALITY" is anothert invented non-issue. It has never existed, and
>I think it is not a stable or realizable position. So what? An equally valid

Okay, from the context it's clear to me that he meant "INEQUALITY of
representation" -- that is, there are far more females in porn than
males.  Is that an invented non-issue?  Nope.  It's a fact.  It
may or may not be a problem.

It's a problem from my perspective, as a female consumer... not
enough merchandise.. :)

>>I enjoy a good porno flick as much as the next guy, but there IS something
>>wrong when there are *way* more girly mags than there are Playgirl-type mags.
>>                                                          ^[Note the irony.]
 
>So what? Why is this 'wrong'? Where in either type magazine is there a
>wrong?

Um, he didn't say that anything *in* either magazine is wrong.  He said
something more like: There is something wrong with our world when zillions 
of men want to go down to the corner store and buy some nekked lady pics, 
but zillions of women, for whatever reason, don't do the same with nekked
men pics.  Kinda leaves open the question of whether the problem is in 
the men, for buying it, or in the women, for not buying it, dontcha think?

>>I do think things are improving, and I don't think censoring porno is the
>>answer.  I would like to think that the exteremists know this also, but I
>>can't speak for them.
 
>Some things are improving, overall things are much worse, much much worse.

Damn it, I said the glass was half *FULL* !!!!!!!

rini
- Who's soon gonna learn to stay outta other people's flame wars... 
Newsgroups: alt.feminism