HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: My Beretta and Me
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:37 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp

....
....
#This Sig 220 felt very nice in my hand and I got tighter groups than him
#and his friend. These groups are even tighter than those with my own
#Beretta. That made me wonder about my Beretta and me. 
....
....
I thought my SIG 228 was accurate until I tried the Glock,  ugly looking
gun compared to the SIG, but accurate? Oh boy!  I love its sights.
I am getting incledibly tight groups with my Glock 21.  This is now my
primary gun.  One can't argue with results.
From: goguenm@bach.udel.edu (Matthew L Goguen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:01:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.199211061657.AA12225
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <RTARAZ.92Nov5125515@bigwpi.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
#
#After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
#Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
#things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)
#
#rtaraz

  Be very very careful if you shoot a TV tube.  The glass fragments
from that could really mess up your day.  As for myself, I am planning
to take my engineering textbooks to the range after finals and apply
my remote hole punch to them. :)  You might want to take a dead atari,
toaster, phone, or the best yet a dead computer.  Have fun, 
I know I will.
Matt goguen
goguenm@bach.udel.edu
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Laser Sights - The State of the Art
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <sZJZTB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
#
#I thought about using a trigger mechanism like you describe. The problem
#is that it violates a basic rule of gun safety by forcing you to put
#your finger on the trigger before you are ready to shoot.

You're right...my bad.  I was just rattling ideas off the top of my head in
response to that message, and didn't think too far.


-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:39 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp


cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes (>)

##but to carry a gun cocked and locked all day, would make me real
##uneasy.
##
##People still like to shoot arrows and I bet it is terrific fun
##Many people like 1911 for their own reasons and thats fine too.
##Now, I have a habit to look at police officers' guns to note what
##he or she chose.  It is amazing how many of them chose to carry

#Ever hear about police departments issueing weapons?? Or only 

Yes, but some policemen get to choose their weapons.

#I want the gun that I can defend myself with best. If that means 
#I use a Colt Peacemaker, then that's what I will use. Don't get so 
#hung up on "state of the art". It's just an advertising gimmick 
#to make you upgrade your possesions often (and spend more money).

I judge by results.  Also, logically, the amount of training
put into getting proficient with a gun with no external safeties
which you only have to aim and shoot every time, may lead to better
results than having to master the same plus fiddling with hammers,
safeties and what not.  Of course, human bias is stronger than all
that and if you really like your 1911 not even a phazer will 
tickle you fancy.  I will drop my favorite gun like a hot
pancake if something demonstrably better comes along.  Maybe I will
still play with flintlocks on nostalgia evenings, but if If I expect
trouble I'll go for the phazer.  If some good exising expert shooters
got off their horses about these old pieces, and gave new guns the
same enthusiasm they once gave their pet models.  They may realize that
keeping an open mind to evolution is a good idea, not a hang-up.

About the Glock, you are right, it is an ugly piece of work but
don't let that fool you ...
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Problem with the Berettas?
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:05 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <1992Nov9.204820.24683@ra.oc.com> talon@wizard.etsu.edu (David Fox) writes:

#What exactly is +P and +P+ ammo.  I have seen this in several magazines, but
#never explained.

This can generally be translated as "more oomph" and "way more oomph".
That's about as accurate as the designations get; those wishing to
quantify such symbology should look into muzzle velocity and foot-pounds.
Beyond +P+ is what's sometimes referred to as "SMG" ("WHAM!").  This is
*not* generally found outside certain limited military use.

Most handgun manufacturer's civilian warranties go poof if you fire
ammo designated +P+.  Oddly enough, when selling to military groups,
they almost all guarantee performance with NATO spec rounds, which
basically correspond (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, my wrists
are not calibrated in foot-pounds) with +P+.

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:29:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: thor.9211130438.AA29574



Dear Mr. Moderator,

	I've only followed this group for a couple of weeks.  
However, I have been quite pleased with the format and was 
pleasantly surprised by the usually knowledgeable readers and 
posters.  Keep up the good work,

	Mike Haynes

P.S. The posts from your detractor seem like sour grapes to me.  
	if any thing, I'd say your accommodating a single person 
	too much.
From: rollend@rocket.sanders.lockheed.com (Matt Rollender)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III again
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:25:17 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.


In article <1992Nov5.152505.15939@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:


#   As of May 19, 1986 the BATF will no longer approve form 1 applications to
#   manufacture full auto firearms for civilian use.  The only legal way to
#   convert a semi auto rifle into full auto is to obtain and install a 
#   registered "auto sear", or (alternatively) registered full auto reciever.
#   Either of these parts require payment of the 4200 transfer tax, plus a
#   hefty "scarcity" payment to the current lucky owner.


If you go ahead and get a registered full auto receiver, can you still
use a semi-auto reciever to use the gun/rifle to go hunting? Or does
the whole gun become a full auto in the BATF's eyes for now and
evermore? I know that the receiver is what the BATF is more interested
in, but if you are out hunting with the rifle configured in its
semi-auto only mode, will they still get "upset" if the remainder of
the rifle has been altered in any way?

I've been debating on whether to buy a registered trigger pack for one
of my rifles, but don't want to give up being able to also use it for
hunting.

Any comments or info?
	thanks,
		matt
--
Matthew Rollender                               Lockheed Sanders Inc.
Senior Engineer                                 144 Daniel Webster Hwy.
Signal Processing Center of Technology          Mail Stop MER24-1583C
                                                Merrimack, NH.  03054  

  (usenet)      ...!uunet!rocket!rollend        phone (603) 885-3977
  (internet)    <rollend@rocket.sanders.com>	FAX   (603) 885-0631
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:04:14 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1dk5giINN541@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A. Ray) writes:
#Is there a reason that Teflon-based lubricants (ie - Triflow) aren't  
#used for case sizing?  It seems that since it's an excellent  
#lubricant and is dry (after the propellent evaporates) that it would  
#be ideal for such a purpose.  Plus you wouldn't have to wipe them off  
#when done since it's not gummy like most.  It would also seem that  
#since it's a dry lubricant that there wouldn't be a problem with  
#powder contamination.

I'm not sure how teflon would work as a case forming lubricant, but I
can assure you that you don't want any on the finished cartridge when
it's chambered, just as you don't want any lubricant on the cartridge
when chambered.  The simple reason is that the safe firing of a
cartridge depends on the case "gripping" the walls of the chamber for
a good seal and to prevent "bolt thrust".  The thrust on a bolt from a
lubricated case can be very high, much higher than the bolt's lugs
were designed to withstand and would damage the rifle at best and both
the shooter and rifle at worst.

#Is there something I'm missing.  I'm getting ready to order some for  
#our club to lube guns,etc. and expect it to work as a case lube as  
#well.

I'd stick with either sprayed lube, pads (my favorite) or the new
water based lubricants (I can't stand to wait for anything to dry).  I
lube on a pad, and run the finished rounds through a coarse ground
corncob in the vibratory polisher to remove the lube.  Works well,
even when loading in volume.  Spray lube works OK, but you have to
stand up all of the cases to get even distribution of lubricant.  It's
OK if you're using loading blocks, but I load progressively and
usually load from baggies of materials.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home   bbxrbk!russ@bbx.basis.com
Will hack unix for food
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:27:03 GMT
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.



I guarantee that the NRA sticker is used by the DC police as probable
cause to search your vehicle for contraband firearms.

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-A  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information

The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
From: rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman

Is there a reason that Teflon-based lubricants (ie - Triflow) aren't  
used for case sizing?  It seems that since it's an excellent  
lubricant and is dry (after the propellent evaporates) that it would  
be ideal for such a purpose.  Plus you wouldn't have to wipe them off  
when done since it's not gummy like most.  It would also seem that  
since it's a dry lubricant that there wouldn't be a problem with  
powder contamination.

Is there something I'm missing.  I'm getting ready to order some for  
our club to lube guns,etc. and expect it to work as a case lube as  
well.

Michael Ray
From: o_oneil%delni.dnet.dec.com@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:31 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <9211111940.aa20335@s.s.ms.uky.edu>, miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes...
#about the ice/sawdust mixture:
#seeing as how wood floats, how would you keep the wood particles suspended
#while freezing it?

Necco Wafers are nice targets for .22s, they shatter when hit and the next
rain makes them vanish.  You can make 'em stand on end with a little putty
on a log.
From: rjm@rjmeyer.wsp (Bob Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Class III again
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: spectrum.1992Nov6.141633.25295
Organization: xerox


In article <199211041808.AA07031@cherokee.advtech.uswest.com> kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#Some time ago, Christopher posted:
#
##From: CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Christopher L Frame)
##Subject: Re: Class III???
##...
##	To purchase a full auto weapon as a non-dealer you pay a $200 federal
##tax to the BATF and get a background check (pictures, prints, police, etc). 
##The tax is a one time tax for EACH full auto firearm you purchase.  ...
#
#My question is that can I pay the $200 federal tax to the BATF and 
#get a permit to convert my rifle into a full auto or select fire one?
#If not, are there any legal ways to do that? Thanks.
#

#No.  

#As of May 19, 1986 the BATF will no longer approve form 1 applications to
#manufacture full auto firearms for civilian use.  The only legal way to
#convert a semi auto rifle into full auto is to obtain and install a 
#registered "auto sear", or (alternatively) registered full auto reciever.
#Either of these parts require payment of the 4200 transfer tax, plus a
#hefty "scarcity" payment to the current lucky owner.

What about the legal but unregistered pre-1981 auto-sears floating around? Is there a legal way to convert a semi auto rifle into full auto using these?
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:27:15 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
#After going to an indoor range for many times, I would like to take my
#Taurus 92 out side for a while.  I like to know what are some fun
#things to shoot at. (i.e.  A television tube should be alot of fun)

Well... if you want it *really* flashy (in the literal  sense  of
the  word),  use baloons filled with hydrogene.  You have to fill
them out on the range (You definitely don't want to shoot at them
indoors!) because H diffundates quite quickly though the rubber.

However, the fireballs resulting from a hit are really impressive.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Armor Piercing rounds
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:37:27 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <199211040045.AA00838@ucsu.Colorado.EDU-> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
->In article <9211031230.aa14789@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
->#As a note, 7.62mm AP and SLAP are banned by the Federal "cop killer bullet"
->#ban, as they are AP bullets fired from handguns. Manufacturing such a round
->#without approval is probably a violation of Federal law.
->
->Other than Thompson Center's single actions, does anyone actually
->make a pistol chambered to 7.62 NATO?

I think Remington still makes that bolt pistol (for shooting silhouettes
- spelling?) called the XP100 or something.  It was chambered for a lot of
different cartridges, including the .243/7mm08/.308 family.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trajectory question
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Nov6.152404.15266
Organization: AT&T

#From article <9211051831.aa15759@claudius.pica.army.mil>, by mfolenta@pica.army.mil:
# 
# Which assumes that the slide and frame both move back together (perfectly
# inelastic collision) as opposed to where the slide STOPS in inertial space
# after hitting the frame and transfers all of its momentum to the frame
# (perfectly elastic collision).  I think the real world is in between but
# closer to the inelastic condition (the slide and frame both move back 
# together).

Why would it be so inelastic?  Two steel balls hitting would be close
to totally elastic.  Even if you had a rubber shock buff. it would
be pretty elastic.  There isn't anything that grabs the frame and slide
and holds together when it hits.

# 
#      And all of this ASSUMES that we have a perfect model and look at just
# momentum transfer.  In the real world, impulse is the item which must
# conserved to start of this analysis, then we jump to momentum, and then
# to energy.  A gun with a recoiling mass (like most semi-autos) lowers
# the peak forces that must be opposed to stop the rearward motion by
# spreading out the application of those forces over both distance (the
# recoiling distance) and time.  Impulse, momentum, and energy ALLWAYS
# must be accounted for and conserved properly.
# 
Yes, impulse and momentum conservation are the same thing and are
conserved in a real or idealized system.

Don't think John is off by 2!

Steve
From: talon@wizard.etsu.edu (David Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock 9mm sights
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:22 GMT
Organization: East Texas State University, Commerce, TX

Greetings:

Does anyone know where I can get Glock rear sights??  My holster
ripped them off. (Yes, I have the older model!)

Thanks

David Fox
s8623f@etsuv2.etsu.edu
talon@wizard.etsu.edu
KB5ULK @ 147.02, 146.52, 146.78mhz.
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: "Cooler Powders", Say what?
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:59:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Nov6.145526.13265
Organization: AT&T

#From article <1992Nov5.155632.22058@ra.msstate.edu>, by dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb):
# If you have seen this month's American Rifleman, there is an article
# by Finn Aagaard on "cooler burning" nitrocotton powders from the UK.
# The idea is that these powders burn cooler while still pushing the
# bullet at the same velocity. This, we are told, will reduce barrel
# erosion. Now thermodynamics was never my strong suite, but I am having
# trouble understanding how a powder can burn "cooler" and still produce
# the same pressure and, hence, the same velocity. Mr. Aagaard's article
# did little, to put it mildly, to explain this or prove that it was
# true.
# 
# It seems, to me, that accelerating a bullet down the bore to some
# velocity just requires some given amount of energy and that the
# only way get that energy is by burning calories (joules) that show
# up as heat.
# 

Seems that if it were cooler, you could compensate by using a greater
charge if the burn rate was suitably adjusted. This would not save
on total energy.  Otherwise you would somehow have to reduce the
average molecular weight of the product gases.  I would think that to
get a cooler powder you would end up with more high heat capacity
heavier gases so it would be tough to go in the direction of
cooler with lighter gases. I'll have to think about this one some
more and try and quantify some.

Steve
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A shotgun might knock you down
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:38:33 GMT
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club

kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:

#Recently, I saw pictures in a magazine of a fellow testing out
#the new Mossberg turkey gun chambered in 3 1/2" mag. 

#They said it was the way he was standing.  Sorry I don't have more
#info on this, perhaps others saw it.

I've got a Browning BPS Magnum 3 1/2" gun that I shoot heavy goose loads in,
and I do that from a boat that is hidden in the cattails, very often still 
floating on the water.  The big shells *do* kick more (no surprise here), but
if you know anything about stance and center of gravity, you'll have no trouble
with falling down with any shotgun.

Now, the funniest 'shotgun and falling down' thing that I've seen, and I've
this one more than once, is the sporting clays shooter who is shooting at a
difficult bird, usually below his position, and has a misfire.  What I've 
seen happen twice now is the shooter falling down *forward* because he was
expecting recoil to push him back.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need info on small .25 semi-auto handgun
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:07 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Nov10.175048.16562@netcom.com> mcaldwel@netcom.com (Michael Caldwell) writes:
#I am looking for an inexpensive semi-automatic handgun.  I think a small
#.25 handgun would do.  Does anyone have any recommendations or comments
#on various brands?  Any information would be appreciated.
#
#Michael

 Stay away from .25 ACP; it is underpowered and the ammo is quite
expensive. .22LR is much better if you want a minimum size, minimum recoil
pistol. But why would you want such a thing? If its for target shooting,
get a full size .22LR with target sights - I like the Ruger Mk-II best for
this, but there are many other good brands. If its for self-protection, go
up to .38 Spec or .380 ACP at least. If you want to save money consider a
used gun.  In particular, a lot of police departments are changing over
from .38 Spec revolvers to 9mm or .40 S&W semi-automatics these days,
which means good bargains in used revolvers. If you buy a used gun, buy it
from an established gun store that will stand behind it, immediately run
200 rounds of hot self defense ammo through it, and complain loudly about
any problems.

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						standard disclaimers apply
From: ss6349@csc.albany.edu (Steven H. Schimmrich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NYS permit questions...
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:47:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Geological Sciences, SUNY at Albany


   I am in the process of applying for a pistol permit in New York State
(the Albany area) and I have a couple of questions about what is best to 
put on the forms.

   1. You are given a choice as to whether you would like a permit for a
      pistol on the premises or a permit to carry a concealed weapon.  How
      difficult is it to get a permit to carry in NYS?  Do you need a REAL
      good reason (i.e. security guard, carry a lot of money for a business,
      etc) or are you generally given one just for asking if your record is
      clean?  Is it better to ask for a permit to carry right away or to 
      first get one for the premises and then see if you can get a permit
      to carry?

   2. The form asks what you want a pistol permit for.  I would like a
      permit for both personal protection (I live in a bad neighborhood
      and I also would like one on the premises for my girlfriend (soon 
      to be wife) since she really can't shoot my 12 gauge too well!) 
      and for fun (I like shooting!).  How should I word this on the permit
      form -- should I just say "personal protection and sporting purposes" 
      or something similar?  Is there anything I should avoid saying?

   Thanks.

--
Steven H. Schimmrich     Department of Geological Sciences         "Non semper
ss6349@csc.albany.edu    State University of New York at Albany   ea sunt quae
ss6349@albnyvms.bitnet   Albany, New York 12222  (518) 442-4466   videntur."