Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:45:57 EDT
From:         gaynet@GALLIFREY.KENT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 18

In this issue:
                         Ok, it begs asking...
                    GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 16
                                NCOD '92
                    GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 17
                    GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 14
                              Humor or not
                           miss manners again
                     Miss M and the Chilli Peppers
                       Jerry Cheney's op-ed piece
                  AB-2601, AB-3019 & Amer Family Assn
                          Clinton on Hypercard
                              UN-subscribe
                    GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 16
                                Maillist
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 639
               OR:9 Voter's Pamphlet Arguments Available

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@GALLIFREY.KENT.edu,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@GALLIFREY.KENT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@GALLIFREY.KENT.EDU.

For those restricted to 8 characters for addresses, Requests can be sent
to GAYNETR@gallifry.kent.edu, and those who need to send anonymously may
send to GAYNETA@gallifry.kent.edu.  Please note the 8 character spelling of
GALLIFRY  (Gallifrey minus the E before the Y).

If you have problems any of these addresses, please contact me directly at:

perkins@ksuvxa.kent.edu (Internet)
ksuvxa::perkins (DECNET)
perkins@kentvms (BITNET/J-Net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:39:25 -0500
From: Mike! <mike.w.miller.40@nd.edu>
Subject: Ok, it begs asking...

...Mr. New Moderator, how come we're getting multiple GayNets with the same
number?  Not to inflict my personal life on the world, but this really
confuses my archiving software :-)

Peace,
Mike!

***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***
*  ______  |  Mike! <=> Mike W. Miller           office:  219 239-8024  *
|  \    /  |  e-mail:  Mike.W.Miller@nd.edu    home/fax:  219 237-0788  |
|   \  /   +------------------------------------------------------------+
|    \/    |  Office of University Computing             User Services  |
*          |  Lick Bush in '92                                          *
***--------+----------------------------------------------------------***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:11 EDT
From: JPERLEY@ACS.WOOSTER.EDU
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 16

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 08:49:27 CDT
From: <CJL3901%UICVMC.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      NCOD '92

 From: Jim Hall <j-hall3@uiuc.edu>

 Queers in Champaign-Urbana were recently discussing what to do for National
 Coming Out Day, and wondered what other campuses were doing.  The official
 date, October 11, falls on a Sunday (not a big day for rallies on the quad
 at this school). October 9-11 is also the weekend of the Names Project
 showing of the quilt in DC, and many people plan to travel to Washington
 for the event.  To make matters worse, Monday, October 12 is Columbus Day
 (Native American Day in some locales).

 We don't want to interferewith other demonstrations on Columbus Day, and
 too many people will be out-of-townon the 11th.  Is there a national
 trend for alternative dates to celebrate coming out?

 Jim Hall
 j-hall3@uiuc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:59:24 EDT
From: georgick@hal.hahnemann.edu
Subject: RE: GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 17

Gabriel-

i appreciate the wisdom of "you can carbon date anything that has carbon in
it", but i was looking for something a bit more in depth ;)  typically, items
that are carbon dated are not as well preserved as the specimen that was found
recently.  it was my understanding that normal carbon dating involves artifacts
rather than tissue samples.  also, because the sperm had been frozen for so
 longi wonder if it had any effect on the rate of decay of the carbon 14 in the
sample?  its not a big deal, i was just wondering out loud if conventional
techniques for dating were applicable in this case-i don't know that much about
carbon dating and it just struck me as odd that they carbon dated the sperm.
 ifit were up to me, i'd try to preserve the stuff and try to make a hybrid,
 bronzeage test tube baby :)

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 10:06:16 EDT
From: Dan Fairbanks <WJGRACIE@MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 14

 Hi. I need a little help, other then not being able to post to the
net using the normal name and node combo.
Anyway, about a year or two a good many people posted coming out stories
I keep a few of them but now I'm unable to find them. I was wondering if any
one else saved them and if so could you e-mail them to me?
Dan Fairbanks
wjgracie at miamiu

------------------------------

From: DONIZETI@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Date: 10 Sep 1992 09:30:52 CDT
Subject: Humor or not

A straight friend sent me this joke--I found it funny--but, then
     my sense of humor as been developing since the 30's--in the
     present climate--is it humourous to the later generations--
     i.e., would if be funny without giving offense?  Merle




A gay man walks in to a diner and orders a glass of milk and a slice
of pie. As all the diner currently has is lemon-merangue, that's what he
gets. To his surprise and delight, it is the BEST pie he's ever had. He
orders another piece. The waiter shouts to the kitchen "Come again on the pie!"
The gay man smiles to himself and says "I just KNEW it"

------------------------------

Date: 10 Sep 1992 09:31:43 -0500 (EST)
From: HARKINS%BUTLERU.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: miss manners again
Mime-Version: 1.0

Miss Manners' column may not have been as bad as a surface reading would
indicate, but-- WHY didn't she *directly* address the double standard
enforced against GLB by straits? I.E., straits are *expected* to share
their relationships, but GLBs are often punished for revealing the
same information straits do *every day*.

Grumble. If politeness means coyly skirting the real issue, I don't
want it.

James Harkins -- HARKINS@BUTLERU.BITNET

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Miss M and the Chilli Peppers
Mime-Version: 1.0

On Miss Manners: My main objection to Miss Manners is that (as I read the
article) she is puting the onus on the individual to keep one's private
life private. I would put the onus on the EMPLOYER and advocate laws that
would support having the onus on the EMPLOYER. I say that in most cases
the individual IS keeping her/his private life private and that is is
often the EMPLOYER who is prying (as in the Military prying into the
private life of [Colonel?] Cammermeyer of the [Washington State] National
Guard). I'd like to see it where work is kept work and private life is
kept private: for example-no sex, sexual conduct or sexual harrassment OF
ANY KIND, no non-staff members (spouses, significant others) invited to
company functions, and no pictures of same (spouses,etc.) in the office.
On the other hand, I would like to see the employer keep HANDS OFF the
off-duty, off-site private lives of employees. That's my opinion- you're
entitled to yours, NO FLAMES, PLEASE.  ---------------------------------


- ------ I saw the Chilli Pepper grab up under the shirt during the MTV
Music Awards yesterday. I don't know what that "proves", re: sexuality of
the Peppers. I have seem similar "horsing around among "straight" men in
various "straight" gyms and among seemingly "straight" men in the Navy.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Medlin <jmedlin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Jerry Cheney's op-ed piece
Mime-Version: 1.0

Take two days off around Labor day and you're 15 messages behind on your
Gaynet reading.  I just got to Jerry Cheney's op-ed piece which he posted
on 9/3, I think, and wanted to congratulate him.  Well-written, with
reasonable points (reasonable even to those not predisposed to his
reasons), and with references to Nazi Germany.  I think the social climate
for gay people is increasingly like that for German Jews in the late 20s
or early 30s, although I'm pretty hazy on the timing of National Socialism
and official anti-Semitism at that time.  The similarities are enough for
me to want to do a little research and see what the comparisons are.  The
more gay-positive stuff we can get into the media, the better; the goal
for me is to convince the non-GLB population that we are, to the same
extent they are, just ordinary folks next door.

Can't wait to read the Newsweek cover story about GLBs in America.  I
suppose there are comments already awaiting me in posts I haven't gotten
to yet.  So enough of this, and on to post number whatever.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:57:20 -0800
From: b_blumberg@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)
Subject: Re:  AB-2601, AB-3019 & Amer Family Assn

Dear Chad Jones,

>As for Ron Buckmire's comment about AB 3019, I saw in one of the local gay
>papers that it was also sent to Wilson.  It was reportedly a carbon-copy of
>AB101.  Since I've only seen this report from once source, I don't know how
>accurate it is.

     The newspapers are making an innaccurate statement when they keep
saying that AB-101 and AB-2601 are the same.  They are very different.
The only thing that they do that is the same is write into law that
employment discrimination based on discrimination would be illegal
in California.  However their methods of acheiving it are very different.

     California has many civil rights laws.  There are the "Labor Code",
The Fair Employment and Housing Act, and the Unruh Civil Rights Act.

     Employment discrimination is addressed, as far as race, religion,
etc. in the FEHA.  However, the Labor Code prohibits discrimination
based on "political activity".

     AB-101 seeked to amend the FEHA to include "sexual orientation".
AB-101 defined sexual orientation as "heterosexuality, homosexuality
or bisexuality".  The FEHA gives protections in employment and housing.
Two days before passing AB-101 last year, the legislature eliminated
the housing protections from AB-101 as a concession to Governor Wilson
because the opposition kept siting a case where some court forced a
heterosexual woman to take in a lesbian roommate in Milwaukee under
some statute there.  AB-101 was specifically written to permit boarders,
and roommates to discriminate in anyway they wanted.  The Milwaukee
law was amended to correct this error.  Nevertheless, the opposition
did win this concession.  There has been long-standing case law in
California anyway which says that it is illegal to discriminate in
housing based on sexual orientation.  It is not in statue, but the
case law has existed for at least 15 years.  A complaint under the
FEHA can be filed up to one year after the act of discrimination took
place and is filed with the Fair Employment and Housing office.

     AB-2601 seeks to amend the Labor Code to specifically include
sexual orientation.   It does not define sexual orientation.  Complaints
under the Labor Code are filed with the Labor Commission and must
be filed within just 30 days of the act of discrimination.  The
Labor Code doesn't cover housing at all.  AB-2601 was written specifically
to address the message in Pete Wilson's veto:  That is, he said that
AB-101 was not necessary because a California Appeallete court
ruled in Soroka vs. Dayton-Hudson (Target Stores) that the Labor Code
protected "manifest homosexuals" from employment discrimination.
Since the Labor Commission was refusing to accept employment discriminatinon
complaints based on sexual orientation, everyone said Pete Wilson
lied.  However, suddenly, two days after the veto, the Labor Commission
said that they were taking the veto message as an "executive order"
and would begin to accept complaints.  Two weeks after that, the
California State Supreme court set aside the appellate court's decision
in Soroka, and announced that they would rule in the matter themselves.
That was one year ago, and their has not yet been a ruling from the
State Supreme Court.  They are expected to give a ruling in about
a month.  If Pete Wilson would sign AB-2601, then the court's ruling
would be meaningless to everyone except Soroka, because there would
be no need for interpretation of the law:  It would be written in
black and white that the Labor Code did cover sexual orientation--
exactly what Pete Wilson said it did in his AB-101 veto message.

     AB-3019 and AB-2601 are substantially the same bill.  AB-3019
is not a "carbon copy of AB-101."  It is a carbon copy of AB-2601.

     AB-3825, which is Assembly Speaker Willie Brown's "Omnibus Civil
Rights Restoration Act", contains most of the 15 civil rights bills
vetoed last year by Pete Wilson.  It contains AB-101.  Pete Wilson
said on the day that AB-3825 was introduced in the Assembly, that he
intended to veto this bill if it ever got to his desk.

     I called the Governor's office yesterday to get Ron Buckmire off
of my back, and found that all three of these bills are on the Governor's
desk waiting for his signature or veto.  California law requires the
governor to sign or veto all bills submitted to him by the legislature
within 30 days of the Assembly's adjournment.  The Assembly adjourned
on August 31, 1992.  Pete Wilson has until September 30, 1992 to decide.
He is under a tremendous amount of pressure:  The legislature always
floods the Governor's office with a TON of bills during the final
weeks of their session.  Governor Wilson has over 1,100 bills on his
desk awaiting his consideration.  Any bills he doesn't sign or veto
within the 30 day period will automatically "become law without his
signature."

     Everyone expects Pete Wilson to veto all three bills.  Every
editorial I have read in the Lesbian and Gay press says a veto is expected.
Pete Wilson hasn't actually said one way or another how he felt about
AB-2601 and AB-3019.  Demonstrations are being planned for West Hollywood,
Silver Lake, and San Francisco for the day of or the day after the
announcement from the Governor's office.  In Los Angeles, call the
Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center (213) 464-7400 after the
announcement to find out what to do and where to go.

     I will write to the Bill Room and get copies of all three veto
messages and post them.  That'll take me about two to three weeks
after the vetoes, but I will post them.

     You can get your own copies of any California Legislative
Bill (for free!!) by writing to:

Legislative Bill Room
State Capitol, Room B-32
Sacramento, CA   95814-4997

     Please enclose a self addressed mailing label.

     Here is the text of AB-2601 AS INTRODUCED.  It has been amended
a lot since it was introduced....I will write for a copy of the final
bills when I write for the veto messages.  I don't plan on keying the
actual bills in, you can write for them yourselves.

      CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE -- 1991-92 REGULAR SESSION

ASSEMBLY BILL                                             No. 2601

        Introduced by Assembly Member Terry Friedman

                      February 11, 1992

===================================================================

     An act to add Section 1102.1 to the Labor Code, relating to
employment.

                 LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

     AB 2601, as introduced, T. Friedman.  Employment:
discrimination:  sexual orientation.

     Existing statutory law prohibits employers from making,
adopting, or enforcing any policy that tends to control or direct the
political activities or affiliations of employees.  It also prohibits
employers from coercing, influencing, or attempting to coerce or
influence employees to adopt or follow or refrain from adopting or
following any particular line of political activity by threatening a
loss of employment.  Existing case law, for purposes of the above
provisions, recognizes that actions of homosexuals for equal rights,
including actions in the field of employment, are political activity
within the above statutory provisions and are protected from the
adverse policies of employers and prospective employers.

     This bill would codicfy the above case law and would specify
that the above statutory provisions prohibit discrimination or
disparate treatment in any of the terms and conditions of employment
based on actual or perceived sexual orientation.  It would provide
that this prohibition shall not apply to a religious association or
corporation not organized for private profit, whether incorporated as
a religious or public benefit corporation.

     Vote:  majority.  Appropriation:  no.  Fiscal committee:  yes.
State-mandated local program:  no.

===================================================================

AB 2601                        - 2 -

     The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

 1       SECTION 1.  The purpose of this act is to codify
 2  existing case law as determined in Gay Law Students v.
 3  Pacific Telephone and Telegraph, 24 Cal. 3d 458 (1979)
 4  and Soroka v. Dayton Hudson Corp., 235 Cal. App. 3d 654
 5  (1991) prohibiting discrimination based on sexual
 6  orientation.
 7       SEC. 2.  Section 1102. is added to the Labor Code, to
 8  read:
 9       1102.1.  (a) Sections 1101 and 1102 prohibit
10  discrimination or disparate treatment in any of the terms
11  and conditions of employment based on actual or
12  perceived sexual orientation.
13       (b)  This section shall not apply to a religious
14  association or corporation not organized for private
15  profit, whether incorporated as a religious or public
16  benefit corporation.

                                 O

===================================================================

>
>The new TV Guide (with Joan Lunden on the cover) has an article on Don Wildmon
>and the American Family Association.  Wildmon has a newsletter which names the
>"Pro-Homosexual Sponsor of the Month."  Anyone know who these advertisers have
>been in the past, and/or how I can get on the AFA mailing list without having
>to give him some money?
>

Dear Chad,

     Perhaps this should be in a separate message, but oh, well.
You can get a free six-month subscription to the AFA Journal by
writing or telephoning:

American Family Association
P.O. Drawer 2440
Tupelo, MS   38803
Phone:  (601) 844-5036

     At the end of six months, it is $15 per year.  There are major
discounts available if you send them the entire membership list of
your church.

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 92 11:02:26 CDT
From: Sarah Holte <HOLTE@UMRVMB.UMR.EDU>
Subject:      Clinton on Hypercard

For any MacIntosh Hypercard users.  There is a stack titled "Clinton-Issues"
available by anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu.  It is in the directory
\card which is in the \info-mac directory.  It has nice graphics and sound, and
information about Clinton's policy on issues including Gay/Lesbian rights,
Women's issues, AIDS, health care and the environment.  Also his convention
acceptance speech and information (address and phone) on how to contact the
campaign headquarters.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:57 MST
From: MULVANEY@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: UN-subscribe

Sorry if this enters the net... I would like to be removed from the
gaynet mailing list.  Thanks.   Shelagh

------------------------------

From: Laura Belmonte <lab2g@uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 12:54:55 EDT
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 6 Issue 16

To Ron Biduk
Re: Newsweek Article

I've read this article three times now.  I didn`t find a hateful tone.  If
aything, I think it makes a good case for demonstrating the necessity of
protective legislation which is inclusive of gays.  I also found Eric
Marcus's piece remarkably positive - Newsweek just as easily could have gotte
one of the "Christians" to have written the rejoinder.

Two more things, I've lived through my Ph.D. prelims and would like to
establish contact with anyone doing work in Gay History especially US.  I'd
love to exchage ideas and stories.  There is also a questionaire on the
experiences of gay faculty ad grad students in the Sept. Perspectives.  Fill
it out.

                    Love, Lesbo Laura at UVa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 10:11:16 PDT
From: michelle@mpl.UCSD.EDU (Michelle Frybarger)
Subject: Maillist

Yo,
	How does one get on the e-mail list?

Michelle Frybarger
University of California, San Diego

------------------------------

Posted: Thu, 10 Sep 92 13:32:01 -0400
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 09:26:01 -0400
From: "David Azzolina" <azzolina@a1.relay.upenn.edu>
Subject: RE: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 639
Msg-Class: ALL-IN-1 V2.3 BL8-4 Rev. AAC 20-Dec-1988

I am not sure why I haven't recieved any Gaynet messages for a week. Please
advise.OP

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 11:45 PDT
From: markm@cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Subject: OR:9 Voter's Pamphlet Arguments Available

The texts of the arguments for and against Oregon Measure 9, which
is sponsored by the OCA (Oregon Citizens Alliance), are available
on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu.  The file is called OR:9.voters.pamphlet
and is in the directory pub/QRD/qrd/rights.  A compressed version
is there as well, just add '.Z' to the filename.

If you do not have access to anonymous ftp, but would like a copy,
please send email to markm@cse.ogi.edu and I will send you a copy
as time permits.  It will be infinitely faster, however, to get
it from nifty.

The uncompressed verion is 112K and the compressed is 50K.

- mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU