From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Funny
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:51:58 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Oct01.115048.11563@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> In article <terjer-300992093707@majestix.ifi.unit.no> terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep30.011703.4998@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da
>> Silva) wrote:
>> > 
>> > In article <6057.2ac6dd05@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>> > > In article <1992Sep27.122135.22721@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> > > > The Windows GUI is significantly better designed than Apple's, 
>> > Um, easier to learn and use. More powerful. More convenient. Less surprising.
>> > More easily generalizable. Better feedback.
> 
>> Lets say that you are an "ordinary" user. You are in the program manager
>> and you insert a diskette with a program and some data on it. The datafile
>> is on the root level, but the application is three layers down in the
>> filetree.
> 
> That's an implementation problem. I already *said* the implementation sucked
> dead gerbils. I'd certainly rather use a Mac than a Windows box for real
> work (and I recommend so). 

I don't understand your reasoning. You're saying that the Mas is better for
real work than Windows, but you still think Windows is "better designed." 

I don't see how this can be. If you had a completely differnt implementation
of Windows that worked exactly the same way, it would still suck dead
gerbils. There's significant parts of the "design" that aren't even
considered.

> I'm talking about the GUI. You know... it's possible
> to consider individual components of a system and discuss their merits
> separately without getting emotional. At least I hope it is.

Agreed. I don't see any rampant emotionalism in this discussion.

>> > Quick, on the Mac, what's the keyboard shortcut for "Print Draft"?
> 
>> That is not a standard choice, so it has no standard shortcut.

Furthermore, it isn't a standard shortcut for Windows.

> Who cares if it's standard or not, if you're using the program in Windows the
> shortcut is presented to you every time you pull down the menu. And it's a
> simple mnemonic. (probably ALT<FP>)

Looking at the Windows Interface Application Design Guide, we find that there
is no standard menu item for Print Draft. Indeed, ALT<FP> will take you to
the File / Print menu, just as the Command-P option on the Mac.

I wonder why you chose "Print Draft" as an example, when Windows doesn't
even have this as a standard (or even optional) item.

> Other parts of the Mac system software are clearly superior to the way
> Windows works, but the GUI is not one of them.

Again, you make this statement without any proof or evidence. Can you give
an example how Windows is head and shoulders above the Mac interface? 

( I can give tons of examples to the contrary, but you seem to be aware of
  those as "implementation issues." )

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy