HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Summary: i think not.
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:07:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24421
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

Regarding a separate newgroup for judo.
This seems like a bad idea to me for a number of reasons.

It just doesn't seem necessary.  The volume in this newsgroup
is not that high.  Let your newreader screen out subjects
you don't care about.

Although it varies as subjects come and go, it seems that there
are not that many articles that are judo-specific.  In fact,
most discussion is not specific to any particular art.  That
is the one of the great things about this newsgroup.  You get
exposed to lots of different ideas and viewpoints.  If we split
off a judo newsgroup, then why not an aikido one, a TKD one, etc?
I, for one, much prefer the cross-pollination we get here.
I've learned a lot, and look at things with a much broader
perspective now.




-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
From: daba@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Daba)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Judo Tournament Sites and Dates Wanted
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:38:27 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Does anyone know about some Judo tournament sites and dates in Indiana or
Illinois?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
From: dsr@bnr.co.uk (D.S.Riches)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 14 Dec 1992 14:20:05 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.51

My 2 pennies worth...

There are 2 cases to consider (in this article anyway :-); the first is
against someone who's had no martial arts training which involves
chokes and strangles and those that do.

Case 1: If a strangle as taught by Judo say, is applied correctly to a
person then it is possible to be unconscious within about 2-3 seconds.
I think there are 2 reasons for this:
	i) The person being strangled does not know what it's like and
	therefore doesn`t know how long they can last.
	ii) Because they haven't trained against this their neck
	muscles are not developed as much as someone who does train.

Case 2: 5-8 seconds has been quote and I'd agree with that.  Some
people I've never been able to strangle such was their neck
development.  However that's because:
	i) you know it's coming and can prepare for it.
	ii) you know how long you can last against a strangle.

having said that, if you're caught unawares then you still go out in a
few seconds (and I've done that a couple of times... weird).

----------

I saw a posting that mentioned how to get out of front strangles and in
JuJitsu we use the following...

	Rotate body so that your right shoulder points towards body (or
	left), drive up with right hand into face using heel of hand
	and your body driving towards the opponent.  nasty.
   Dave Riches
   Email:  David.S.Riches@bnr.co.uk
   Smail:  BNR Europe Ltd, London Road,
           Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA.  England
   Phone:  +44 (0)279-402496
   Fax:    +44 (0)279-451434
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:09:52 GMT

In article <BzCCGw.JzB@eis.calstate.edu> jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart) writes:
>
>From what I understand, the Samoans used to put some sort of narcotic on
>their armor so that pain would be more difficult to register.  Apparently,
>this is why the .45 was invented.  US troops were VERY disconcerted when
>they kept coming after a few rounds in the chest.

Nope.  From what I've heard, the Colt .45 was introduced as the
service sidearm after the Spanish-American War, when the Moros would
take 6 slugs from a revolver (.38?) and still live long enough to hack
an unfortunates head off with those bolo knives.  I haven't heard of
drug use in connection with this; the Moros were said to have a 
fighting spirit reinforced by the Islamic belief warriors who die
go to heaven (but then again, I thought our recent Iraqi foes would
do the same, so what do I know!).

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
From: seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov (Michael J. Seibl)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:24:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.233127.13718@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) writes:
|> 
|> Hello!
|> 
|> I'm a martial artist and I've looking to document some of
|> my moves (forms,katas, etc).
|> 
Can you say "videotape"?:L)


Seib


		Live long, and perspire.




Seib Seibl   Computer Science Corp. NASA/Ames Research Center
             Moffet Field, Ca       Harware Support Engineer
	     (415) 604-4620

Seibl@Q.nas.nasa.gov
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Harmony Factor
Keywords: harmony, sparring, attack
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:19:37 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec14.143037.23615@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.124739.12639@athena.mit.edu> ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross) writes:
>
>>This explains why neither Aikido nor Tai Chi normally include sparring in the
>>usual sense.  (Any A. or T.C. players out there who *do* spar per se, and 
>>find what value in it?)

>	San Shou is the term used for Taiji free sparring. It is pretty far
>downstream in many Taiji curriculums. But I understand that William Chen likes
>his students to put on the gloves and do the Rock'em Sock'em Robots thing
>fairly early.

Certainly free sparring is an important part of our curriculum
in general, and of Tai Chi practice in particular. Of course,
we spar quite a long time before we begin to learn Tai Chi
(our curriculum is, in the words of Scott Workinger describing
the system he studies, a 'system of systems'), but after 
learning our first Tai Chi form we are also introduced first to
stationary push hands, and then, as we develop some basic
proficiency, we put on blindfolds and practice Tai Chi oriented
free sparring. I must say I have been battered and bloodied
more times in Tai Chi sparring than in regular free sparring.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work,
Date: 19 Dec 1992 00:02:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

>
>>I've passed out _while_ sailing into what I thought was going to be a fabulous
>>armlock, and since have decided to protect my neck a little better.  
>>But the effect has certainly never been instant, and I've been strangled by some 
>>of the best.
>
>Again, this is competiton experience. If someone were to smack you with a 
>forearm across the side of the head prior to applying the strangle, you 
>would be far less feisty.

I agree, mostly.  However, it is amazing how routines that you
pactice over and over can be done even when dazed, even when hurt.  Most
people have a few moves that the practice so much they just do it, no
matter what when the correct stimulation occur.  I think any
MA-ist have a built in reaction to strangle holds, their minds don't
even have to enter the picture and their bodies automatically go through
one of the correct counters.

I know that this has worked for me on occation...not specifically with
strangle holds, but in general, just doing the right thing even when stunned
and winded.

	-Garth


			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:44:38 GMT

In article <1gg5o0INN5fb@gap.caltech.edu> lieven@cco.caltech.edu (Lieven Pascal Leroy) writes:
>A blow to the rib cage is a glorified shove.  The ribs are made to take it.
>But the xyphoid process is another matter.  Please keep in mind that this
>does not fall under 'friendly' ways to incapacitate someone.  It's not just
>knocking the wind out of them or making them vomit, as a blow to the solar
>plexus will probably do.  This blow can kill in an unpleasant way, or at
>least require surgical intervention to patch up torn tissue.

So kids, please don't try this at home!  I'd say that any blow may
have damaging effects on an opponent, 'tis better not to punch at
all.  But more to the point, my argument was about self-defense,
which means striking someone larger than yourself.  If you punch
someone like that, you simply aren't going to do as much damage
as if you beat up on somebody smaller than yourself (see Bruce
Tegner's book on pressure points about this), so I advise you to
attack the most vulnerable points.  

I'm not exactly sure why you and Steve separate the xiphoid process
from the solar plexus.  To my mind, those two are so close together
as to be the same target.

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:11:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry) /  5:05 pm  Dec 17, 1992 /
>>Just remember that flashlights that contain more than 3 D batteries are
>>considered a weapon by the police.  If you are carrying one or reach for
>>one while the police are present, they can and will assume you are going
>>for a weapon and respond accordingly.  

>They are?  As defined in the CA Penal Code?  Which section??? 
----------
As defined by the San Jose cops who pulled us over and when they saw the
4-cell flashlight hanging off the door that it was a weapon and since it was
reach of the driver, they would assume any movement toward it would be 
construed as reaching for a weapon.  I believe they refer to this as a 
weighted club or stick; some may even go so far as to call it a baton since 
it is almost the same size and weight and batons will get you a felony 
possesion charge if you are not registered to have one.  Of course, these are 
the same people who classified my 3-sectional staff as nunchaks and had me up 
on the hood of their car while I was trying to explain that nunchaks are about
8-12" long.  San Jose considers any two or more "sticks" held together by
chain or cord to be nunchaks and that is a felony weapon charge.  Fortunately,
a seargent also showed up and let me go with a warning.  Anyway, a 3-cell is
more than big enough to get the job done in terms of length and weight and
you avoid the potential problems with police "mis-" interpretations.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Groin kicks
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:14:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 4305@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1fr1bjINNs50@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> bradleah@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (II Andrew Bradley) writes:
>>The only problem is that most males are either taught from birth or have  
>>learned the hard way that they should allways protect there groin.  Also  
>
>	A good time to attack the groin is with a knee during groundwork.
>Most of the time when someone catchs a knee in judo practice this is when
>it happens (except for uchi-mata, a hip throw that involves lifting a leg
>between your opponent's legs...)

Also, most  opponents are good against blocking strait kicks to the
groin only ...low hooking kicks have a much higher chance of going in...

-Garth




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Why they like Bruce
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 13:51:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.172909.798@hls.com> silatman@hls.com writes:
>     When some martial artists say they meditate, or
>do heavy breathing for development of chi, etc. what
>are they concentrating on? Are they thinking about 
>their Creator [God], or is it a "secular" meditation? 

	Each posture has a certain direction, and a particular feeling of
expansion/contraction. The goal (in my meditation) is to be constantly aware of
your whole body, and release tension while maintaining the proper posture. The
meditation which I practice is not properly "qigong", because there is no
conscious attempt to lead qi around.
	But there is an emphasis on clearing the mind, and being aware of
what's around you.

>     Where does chi, or whatever ability they are
>seeking originate from? Does it come from their own
>willpower? 

	I believe that "formally", you get qi from your parents, from the air
you breath, from the foods you eat and from your reproductive system. There are
concepts of the "spirit" as found in western religions, but that stuff doesn't
fall under the big, vague category of qi.


--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Electronic Self Defense Devices
Date: 20 Dec 1992 19:45:40 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Electronic Self Defense Devices
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Keywords: 

I've been a lurker here for three or four months and have followed
the threads on gun fu, big flash lights as weapons, physics of ki etc.

Does anyone know anything about the 80,000 volt electronic stun guns.
I am not refering to the Tazer (sic) devices.  These things are big
capacitors (I think) that store a very high voltage, low amperage
charge and have to be held against an assailant for 2-4 seconds.
They are powered by one or two 9 volt batteries.

They're currently very popular in the DC area, I guess because they
are legal to carry in both Maryland and Virginia (but not the District
I'm told).

I'm getting a lot of questions about them which I can't answer.  Having
survived the CS chamber and other similar tortures in Quantico, 
(I've also zapped myself with my camera's high voltage flash unit) I'm
contemplating zapping myself with one of these (aren't I a dedicated
instructor?  ) unless.............. someone out there already has
first hand experience.

What I'm looking for is answers to the questions:

       1)  how painful
       2)  how incapacitating
       3)  effective for how long
       4)  does it knock out, immobalize or just disorient
           (apparently, it doesn't kill, but if anyone thinks
            it might, I'd like to hear from you real soon)

Thanks in advance.
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - K31)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: A western scientific look at Ki
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:37:50 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

> document these episodes in which a mother lifts a car to save her child?

I can't document a mother saving a child.  In college I did participate in
lifting cars parked in our private parking spot and dumping them in the
middle of the street.  (big ones we had to bounce)
================== We Design and Build Fine Networks ===================
		Stephen Ray Northcutt (703) 663-4447
Disclaimer: The Public Affairs Officer speaks for this Naval Lab, not me!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lchurch2@bluemoon.use.com (Leonard Church)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:02:13 EST

> According to a police officer friend of mine who has had to 
> subdue such crazies, the only way to subdue someone on PCP is to
> choke him out.  My friend claims that "pain compliance" techniques
> only piss them off - including the use of the baton full force
> against the shin bone - in his experience.  He has never tried a taser.
> 
> Charles Yeomans

Having seen a taser used against someone "impaired" by this drug it is 
disconcerting to know that you have to hit the individual at least 3 to 4 
times before it finally registers in the brain to give up.  This 
discussion reminds me of "battlemix" as a gentleman I met that was in Viet 
Nam called it...it was a mixture of narcotics that was often used by US 
and Vietmanese <sp?> troops before going into a particularly nasty combat 
situation.  He told me that he personally had seen men that were shot so 
severely that they could not have been able to react continue to function 
for up to 5 minutes before finally falling.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Growing trees in a concrete Jungle | lchurch2@bluemoon.rn.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@woundedknee.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: need JKA contact
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 17:27:10 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ftit@woundedknee.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec14.193332.22331@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com ( ) writes:
|el24+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward Liu) writes:
|:  I was under the impression that Master Ohshima broke away from the JKA after
|: Master Funakoshi died, but he didn't want to join the other folks leaving the
|: JKA to form the Shotokai.
|
|If you go to their dojos they say yes we are JKA too. Just try them.

Um, nope.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: ki (qi/chi) and science
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:52:50 EST


>14-Dec-92 geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) Re: Ki and science
In article ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes:
>|> I have come across an article where Qigong MAsters had their external
>|> Qi investigated by scientific methods. This was done in CHina, I believe.
>|> One Qigong Master was found to radiate fine particles, the other ultrared
>|> (not infrared, the other side of red) radiation. The article did not give
>|> details on the equipment used. 

>He radiated yellow light?  Ah! The golden glow! :-)

>You should be _extremely_ wary of articles in popular literature that
>give proof by obscure reference to alleged "scientific studies". 

>Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

Agree agree! That's one of the big problems.  I have never seen any scientific
verification of any socalled "mystical" force--not that I personally need one,
but it would be nice if just one prominent scientific journal would provide
solid verification of the chi/qi phenomenon.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: santiago@panther.adelphi.edu (Jose Santiago)
Subject: Goju In NY
Organization: Adelphi University - Node: Boole
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:41:39 GMT

Any one interested in the U.S.A Goju, who live in New York, please email me
at jose@auvax1.adelphi.edu.

thanks:
jos
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: where to buy a CLUB for my car
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:29:36 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) /  3:55 pm  Dec 16, 1992 /
>smash her head in with the MAG-LITE if she made any trouble. But the
>average bystander won't say anything about a flashlight that is not
>used, unlike a PK-24 tonfa.
----------
Just remember that flashlights that contain more than 3 D batteries are
considered a weapon by the police.  If you are carrying one or reach for
one while the police are present, they can and will assume you are going
for a weapon and respond accordingly.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:29:04 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: todd@reed.edu's message of 10 Dec 92 21:00:38 GMT


In article <1992Dec10.210038.29499@reed.edu> todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:

   What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
   If the proverbial 7'-300lb-PCP using-steroid monkey-whose spent half
   his life in Folsom prison-and wants to rip your lungs out was in the
   alley with you and you could set up one or two shots what would they
   be? No guns or knives allowed.

Bummer.

   I know that it depends on the situation, the range, and a lot of other
   things and that no one with any sense would hit just once or twice; what
   are the first couple techniques that come to mind?

Scream?  Run?  

I know I know...

   For me the Thai kick to the inside of the knee, elbow to the side or
   back of the neck (while holding the head in the other hand), and maybe
   head butt to the temple immediately spring to the fore.

Yeah, I like that...I think I'd concentrate on taking his legs out from
under him, possibly with a really hard roundhouse kick (Thai kick) to
the knee, or maybe a sidekick to the same area.  I'd be more likely to
successfully connect with a sweep, but on the other hand, he's more
likely to get back up after the sweep.   I'd skip on the head strikes
you describe, though, simply because he's too much taller than me for 
them to work.  I think I'd just concentrate on the legs, and maybe a 
solar plexus hit.

Question time: does anybody know if a solar plexus strike affects a 
drugged-up person?  I find the effects to be really weird and really
strong.  A medium-strength strike has the effect of stopping my breath...not 
knocking it out, but stopping it, so that for a moment I can't either
inhale or exhale.  It also seems to make my legs go a little wobbly, 
but not like a head strike where your knees just go.  It does make 
the fight go out of you, at least for a moment, though...I can just
imagine what a really strong strike would be like.  But I don't know
if it has the same effect on someone who's impaired.

Hey, I got an idea.  All the Boston-area people, let's have a rec.ma
get together.  We'll go to Boston Beer Works and sample their fine ales,
then repair to the adjacent parking lot and see what effect solar plexus
strikes have on people in varying degrees of impairment.  And we won't
even have to bring a mop!  Do I know how to have fun or what?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar)
Subject: MA GIF Files
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:13:03 GMT


To the guy who had the MA gif files :

Could you send them to rec.martial-arts as well as alt.binaries.pictures.misc,
as we have restricted access, and don't get that group.

Or alternatively, just send them to me. :-)


Thanks

Derek A. Dewar
AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd.

ddewar@ihlpb.att.com

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts