HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:49:04 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>Which you claimed the market isn't really capable of supporting.

Which is true. Which is why I'm going to hate seeing the Giants leave (I was
rooting for the A's to go to Denver a few years ago because I saw this
coming), but also why I'm not particularly involved in the last minute
SaveThem! panics, even though I hate AL ball. 

Of course, I have the San Jost Giants, so I'm not doing without. But it's
going to be sad not having the NL in town, but I recognize that it's what
is best for the team and what the region's said they want.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:16:56 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

Yet again, San Francisco mayor Frank Jordan has exposed himself as the boob
that he is.  Last night, opening a press conference with Charlotte Hornets
owner George Shinn, Jordan introduced Shinn as the owner of the "National
Basketball League Charlton Hornets."

Uh, Mr. Mayor, that's the National Basketball ASSOCIATION, and the city is
CHARLOTTE.  I think he couldn't decide whether to say "Charlotte" or
"Charleston."  No wonder the city is about to lose the Giants...


Tim Irvin   j056600@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
*********************************************************************
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:59:14 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>Bottom line: we do have a team.

And we used to have two. 

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Giants Rally 8/28
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:37:41 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: I is a writur

According to KGO radio this morning, there's another "save the giants" rally
to be held today at noon in Justin-Herman Plaza on the Embarcadero downtown.

Not only is this a good chance for everyone to show up and boo Mayor Jordan
in person, but think about what message the area will send if we hold
another rally and a massive 1,000 people show up. If you want to save the
Giants and can get there, I suggest you do, because the physical presence 
of lots of bodies clogging the streets will send a messages that the people
are interested. Four bag ladies and a streetsweeper will send just as loud a
message to the baseball owners that all the hystrionics of Hizzonner can't
make go away.

-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
Newsgroups: ba.sports
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:36:51 GMT

In article <71658@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>One final comment on Lurie. If you really feel like he didn't give the Bay
>Area a fair shake, compare him to the other owners that have moved teams
>over the last decade or so -- the Baltimore Colts and the Oakland Raiders,
>to name two. Compare what he did and what the Colts owner did. If you can
>still say he's shafted us with a straight face, I'll be suprised (maybe not
>a lot, though. Emotions run deep). 

Let me make something clear:  I do not think that Bob Lurie shafted
anybody.  I don't believe I've ever said he did.  What I object to is the
notion that we've somehow shafted Lurie.   Bob Lurie asked for a
substantial investment of taxpayer money, which would have helped both his
long-term and short-term revenues without his risking any substantial
portion of his money.  The taxpayers decided that their priorities were
elsewhere.  I don't think that's shafting anybody. 

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:08:38 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>Let me make something clear:  I do not think that Bob Lurie shafted
>anybody.  I don't believe I've ever said he did.  What I object to is the
>notion that we've somehow shafted Lurie.   Bob Lurie asked for a
>substantial investment of taxpayer money, which would have helped both his
>long-term and short-term revenues without his risking any substantial
>portion of his money.  The taxpayers decided that their priorities were
>elsewhere.  I don't think that's shafting anybody. 

You're right, Sherri. Sorry for putting words in your mouth.

On the other hand, now that the Bay Area has spoken (four times) and Lurie
has made a business decision based on what the Bay Area has told him, lots
of folks ARE calling him lots of nasty things, and I think that's
unjustified. 


-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Jerry Rice Signs for 5.7 mil (3 yr contract)
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:33:03 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.

Just heard Jerry Rice signed with the 49ers for 5.7 million over 3 years (1.
9 mil/yr) and will play in Friday's game.
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
From: lsacks@angelo.amd.com (Larry Sacks)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:41:27 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.


Good point Wayne.  I don't really mind the access via the freeway,
since I enjoy going to ball games.  I guess the point I should have
stressed more is that the casual fan doesn't always want to put up
with the freeway access.  I have several friends that are casual fans
that will only go to a game if they don't have to drive.  In this
case, a Season Ticket plan and Preferred Parking won't cut it as it
wouldn't be available.  And if they have taken the bus, most feel it's
a real pain if you miss it and having to make a mad dash for it.

If the Giants could attract more of the casual fans, then their
attendance would increase.  The "die-hard" fans will almost always go
to a game no matter what they have to put up with, but the casual fans
don't always want to deal with the hassle and will tend to get 
frustrated and give up on it as inaccessible.

Larry Sacks
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Larry Sacks                                 lsacks@brahms.amd.com
Advanced Micro Devices                      408/982 - 7047
901 Thompson Place  M/S 23,  Sunnyvale, CA
From: lsacks@angelo.amd.com (Larry Sacks)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Giants Rally 8/28
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:46:17 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:

>According to KGO radio this morning, there's another "save the giants" rally
>to be held today at noon in Justin-Herman Plaza on the Embarcadero downtown.

Where are these things publicized?  I heard about the last rally the
morning of the rally, but I never heard about this rally until I read
it here.  Is this part of Mayor Jordan's grand scheme of showing
what a "cohesive" effort is geing put forth to save the Giants?  ;-)

Larry
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Larry Sacks                                 lsacks@brahms.amd.com
Advanced Micro Devices                      408/982 - 7047
901 Thompson Place  M/S 23,  Sunnyvale, CA
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: CANSECO TRADE
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:36:51 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pacific * Bell

In article <1992Sep2.092626.14776@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
>In article <83.43.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp>,
>neil.black@uttsbbs.uucp (Neil Black) writes:
>(burp)
>>I've always had a love/hate relationship with Jose.  You've gotta love
>>watching him bat, even when he whiffs.  But he had those streaks where
>
>I think that too many fans who came to the gate to watch Jose screw
>up were getting their money's worth.
>>As for Ruben Sierra:  I feel that he is very mediocre, but could live up
>
>He doesn't have awesome numbers, but he is a player.  no weaknesses.
>At the very least, right field doubles,  don't turn into triples.
>
>>also.  Bobbie Witt has been a pitcher with room for improvement, and I
>>think that Dave Duncan can straighten him out for the post-season.  I
>>must say that the third member of the trade, Jeff Russell, is a
>>headcase, and a crappy pitcher.
>can't argue with this.
>
>>
>>I think Sandy Alderson has screwed up, but we'll see.  He's a very
>>shrewd general manager, and I hope he knows something that I do not.
>>
>>Well, of course he knows something that I don't.  Otherwise, he wouldn't
>>have made this trade.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>If you compare the numbers, if you look at dollar values, I guess it
>is arguable that Alderson screwed up.  If you want to root for a
>team that at least attempts to play to its' potential, I will be
>very happy to switch to the A's now that the Giants are gone.
>
>Canseco has kept me at a distance for a while.
>
>Mike

I will not be surprised if the A's lead dwindles and find
themselves not going all the way to the big one.  IMHO the trade
sucked MAJOR LEAGUE.  I also believe it has affected most of
the A's players, whether or not they admit it.  It has to affect
their security as baseball players.  They must be feeling very
vunerable after this trade.  Can you imagine being an A's player
and wondering to yourself, "Hell, anyone is dispenable!"  I
think they all know this, but the reality of having a Super Star
traded in a most classless way is sure to make the players even
more untrusting of management.
-- 
        ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@pacbell.com	--------	
 		"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination
	       is out of focus."   -     Mark Twain
Xref: sparky ba.sports:512 ba.general:3599 ba.market.misc:6629
From: charly@hal.COM (Charly Rhoades)
Newsgroups: ba.sports,ba.general,ba.market.misc
Subject: Re: Lithuanian Shirts FOUND!
Summary: Additional Info
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:38:17 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: renoir.hal.com

In article <hg7m-s.derek@netcom.com> derek@netcom.com (Derek LeLash) writes:
>Anyway, to get one of the wild tie-dye shirts seen at the Olympic medal
>ceremony, call the Grateful Dead merchandising service at 1-800-CAL-DEAD.
>The shirts come in sizes L (for you or me), XL (for Marchulionis), and
>XXL (for Sabonis). :-)  They cost $30 plus tax and shipping; part of the
>money goes to the Lithuanian basketball fund....

Here's some additional info:

T-shirts are all-cotton (but preshrunk) and feature a skeleton
slam-dunking on the front.  Larges and Extra-Larges are $30, but
the XXL are $32.

Other related merchandise:     Shorts:  $30
                             Tank Tops: $25
                           Polo Shirts: $37

These are all available in M, L, or XL, and feature a Lithuanian
emblem (not sure sure if it's the country's or something specific
to the basketball team) instead of the skeleton.

The items are to be delivered within 4-6 weeks by UPS, perhaps
earlier for California destinations.

$10 - $12 of each item will go to one of two places:

1) First, to the Lithuanian basketball team to pay off the debt
   they incurred going to the Olympics.

2) Leftover funds will go to a Lithuanian children's charity
   specified by Don Nelson.

Oh, my postage/handling for three items was $6; California
state tax (per normal).
-- 
   Charly Rhoades               Now I could walk into any old bar
                                and find a fight without looking too far
   HaL Computer Systems         But I never killed someone I don't know
   charly@hal.com               just because someone told me to.  --CvB
Newsgroups: ba.sports
From: ghm@snowbird.asd.sgi.com (Gregg Malkary)
Newsgroups: ba.sports,ba.market.vehicles,ba.market.misc,ba.general,cmh.forsale,misc.consumers,misc.forsale,fj.forsale,fj.rec.bike,rec.bicycles
Subject: Bike For Sale - Mtn View/Palo Alto
Keywords: Bike For Sale - Mtn View/Palo Alto
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:44:43 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Shogun 600 (Blue)
Shimano Parts
10 speed
53cm (20") frame
Chromoly Lugged Tange Double Butted Frame
7 years old
excellent condition
ideal for training
never crashed
asking $200


Call Greg at:
	(415)321-6034 h
	(415)390-5185 w
OR email at:
	ghm@sgi.com



-- 

*************

Gregg Malkary
Database Product Marketing Mgr
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems
2011 North Shoreline Blvd
Mountain View, CA  94039
(415) 390-5185

*************
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:13:59 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <71692@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>>Which you claimed the market isn't really capable of supporting.
>
>Which is true.

Got to pick a nit here.  It's not a known fact that the region can't
support two teams.  All that is known is that these particular ownership
groups can't gather enough support here.  My claim is that the current
Giants management would have attendance problems anywhere.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: ba.sports
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:47:39 GMT

In article <71677@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>
>>Bottom line: we do have a team.
>
>And we used to have two. 

Which you claimed the market isn't really capable of supporting.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:24:23 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

> We all agree that Candlestick could be nicer and a lot warmer! :->
> but that's only part of the problem.  Access is the pits.  I live in
> Sunnyvale, and can drive up or take public transit.  We all know
> what the freeways are like both before and after a game.

Well, I also live in Sunnyvale and have essentially no problem with
freeway access to Candlestick.  First, I go a little bit early: no
traffic jams, good parking, and I either sit in the car and people-
watch (great fun, especially for Dodger games!) or go in a little
early and watch batting practice.  Fun either way.

For leaving, the secret is simple: Buy a Season Ticket so you can use
Preferred Parking.  After the game I walk to the Preferred Parking lot
(usually the front row since I get there early) and hop in the car and
drive home.  Traffic is only marginally worse than any random Sunday.
And in fact, the trip home always takes *LESS* time than the drive up,
since the average speed on 280 is a good 10 MPH faster after games.
(Not that I *LIKE* this, you understand, but 'tis true. :-)

I also used to take the bus, and here I agree with the poster I quoted
above: the busses park out in center field, and you've got quite a
sprint after the game to make sure you don't get stranded, especially
when your seats are behind the plate!

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: ba.sports
Subject: Re: Frank Jordan strikes again
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:01:43 GMT
Organization: I is a writur

chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:

>>Sorry, but I have a hard time working up sympathy for a millionaire
>>businessman who's unhappy because we refused to spend tax dollars to
>>finance a stadium,

One final comment on Lurie. If you really feel like he didn't give the Bay
Area a fair shake, compare him to the other owners that have moved teams
over the last decade or so -- the Baltimore Colts and the Oakland Raiders,
to name two. Compare what he did and what the Colts owner did. If you can
still say he's shafted us with a straight face, I'll be suprised (maybe not
a lot, though. Emotions run deep). 

He could have left long ago and made a nicer profit. Instead, he strung
himself out through two more elections, both of which he put a chunk of
pocket change into while funding a team that was losing $3-5 million dollars
a year because he hoped to save the team for the Bay Area and make it
financially viable, which it's not in the Bay Area. Three years ago he could
have created a bidding war for half a dozen locations.

Instead, he put another ten mil into the team in operating expenses and
ended up deciding to sell into a recession-based market that kicked a number
of potential owners (like Buffalo) out of the running. Real sharp
businessman, that Lurie, only in this for the money like that.






-- 
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
  chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
	A real SF writur with stories in ALTERNATE KENNEDYS and THE 
	  FURTHER ADVENTURES OF BATMAN, in better bookstores now!

          Painted emblems of a race, all accurst in days of yore,
       Each from his accustomed place steps into the world once more.
Newsgroups: ba.sports
From: bilan@netcom.com (Steve Bilan)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco Re: Traded
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 06:11:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Distribution: ba ca

For the life of me, I can't fathom the logic of the trade.  Rubin
Sierra is good, but the A's have plenty of hitters (especially
outfielders) and Rubins contract is up and will be a free agent
at the end of the year (but then again, so will Jose; so I don't
know what the Rangers are getting out of it).  Russell has an ERA
of 4.45, so he is pretty much useless and Witt is a closer (a
poor one at that) and the A's certainly don't need a closer.




M, BATR..
..Steve Bilan

Newsgroups: ba.sports
From: spiegel@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel)
Subject: Re: The Fat Lady has belched
Organization: Personal Opinions Inc
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 20:49:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.161004.18706@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.013108.2850@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> spiegel@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel) writes:
>>>Why don't these studies ever include an analysis, for example, of what the
>>>impact of losing the Senators had on DC?  
>>	
>>	That is just what a number of these studies did.  They were
>>	undertaken to evaluate what the loss would be to the given
>>	city if the team in question left.  It wouldn't have made
>>	much sense for a non-DC city to include DC in their study
>>	since the economies of the cities could be quite different, land
>>	prices for a new stadium could be quite different, environmental
>>	and labor regulations applying to the construction could be quite
>>	different, etc.
>
>Perhaps you need to lend me your dictionary, because I don't understand
>this paragraph at all.  First you tell me that the studies *did* include an
>analysis of the impact of the Senators leaving DC, then you tell me that it
>doesn't make sense for them to do so, so they don't.  

	I can see why U are so easily confused.  You have cut out the first
	part of your original paragraph, and applied my answer to only the last 
	sentence of your paragraph.  I never said the Cubs, Colorado,
	Rangers, Astros, Santa Clara studies even mentioned DC or the 
	Senators, and of course they didn't for the reasons I have
	given above.
>
>>	I am not interested in appealing to authority.  I want the studies
>>	to stand on their own, regardless of who produced them. That is
>>	why I don't automatically dismiss them because of who funded
>>	them.  
>
>If you're not interested in "appeal to authority", then why do you
>repeatedly emphasize that these studies are done by well-known economics
>professors?  I was merely pointing out that other well-known economics
>professors, who were not in the employ of major league teams, came to
>different conclusions.  
>
	This is only your misguided interpretation. I mentioned the authors
	repeatedly, just like I repeatedly mentioned who funded the
	studies, for completeness.  I have repeatedly stated that the
	studies should be judged on their merits, not who funded them,
	or who performed them.  I had hoped this discussion with an
	apparent public-funding of stadiums foe would had led to
	an enlightening discussion of these studies, but you obviously
	have neither the proclivity nor ability to do so.  QED

	Mark


Newsgroups: ba.sports