HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:43:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Aug18.204351.3585
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:

>In article <18AUG199211040106@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>,
>afallen@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (E. Allen Arrington) writes:
>>but that's another long story).  During our efforts to help the horse
>>theere was a lesson going on in the arena and the student was riding the
>>horse (hunt seat) without a girth.  Is this a normal teaching practice?
>>

>Are you serious? Did she die or what? I am utterly amazed.

I suppose this is to teach "balance", but it sounds _incredibly_
dangerous to me.  I'd think the same effect could be had, much more
safely, by (a) riding bareback, (b) riding without stirrups, or
(c) riding with only _one_ stirrup (*much* harder than riding without
either).  As far as I know, "drop your girth" is not (yet, at least)
an allowed test for equitation... 

--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: neilson@osf.org (Peter Neilson)
Subject: Re: Drivers encounter loose horses - CO2 pistol?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:23:32 GMT

Instead, I used my horse as the weapon, but I first had to get her
attention.  She was all wrapped up in the "who-is-alpha-mare-here?"
question, and was totally ignoring my voice and reins.  Thus the whip.
I used the whip until I got Velvet's attention.  The carriage whip is
an excellent safety device.  It is long enough that dogs respect it,
too, and it also serves as a turn signal when in traffic, and as an
effective "I'm stopping" signal to carriages behind.  Anyway, once I
had Velvet's attention (after about three strokes on the off flank) we
proceded at a stiff trot, as I requested.  Until that time we just
floundered around all over the road, tempting disaster.  I did keep
tickling her with the whip, to urge her on, once we were moving.

There is yet another use for the whip.  I have never seen this done,
but have a book with a drawing in which a cart driver is whipping the
horse and -driver- of the cart that is attempting to overtake him on
the road.  The dreaded "Massachusetts" style of automobile driving
predates the motorcar!

ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT matter of driving ...  We find we are short
one or two driving friends for our annual weekend at Acadia Park in
Maine, the 12th and 13th of September.  Send me computer mail if you
think you might like to accompany us, and I'll fill you in on the
details.  (You would be with us in one of our carts, not driving your
own horse and cart.)  The Park has some of the finest carriage roads
on the North American continent.  There is no automobile traffic, and
no loose horses.
-- 
            >>>  Peter Neilson  --- neilson@osf.org  <<<
               "No .sig file is better than this one."
(Quotation changed daily.  If you've seen this one before, it's still yesterday.)
From: dbwebe@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: mechanical hackamores 
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:33:56 CST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Aug14.080145.15825@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman) writes:

{stuff deleted}
> 
>>Also, I mentioned that the way *I* cue my horse to stop means that
>>I very rarely have to touch the reins at ALL to stop--even coming to
>>the finish line running the barrels.  And, I also mentioned that I
>>only ride (rode) in a mechanical hackamore during competition.  I
>>figure that if I'm competing (seriously competing), we ought to be
>>communicating VERY well before I spend my money...
> 
> I applaud the communication comment.  But if you are communicating so
> well then why are (were) you using a mechanical hackamore only in competition??
> My thought is you should be able to compete well in whatever you use
> to school at home and if you can't then something is wrong with your
> schooling or communications.
> 
> 				Tracy and Bruce (beautiful man) and
> 				Cachet (7 year old Arabian mare) and
> 				Mithril (2 year old Arabian filly) and
> 				The Cats


	This is true of most competitive riding events, but not in
	performance 'speed' events. A competitor riding barrels on 
	a national level will normally ride their animal at home in 
	a variety of "low control" hackamores and bits that encourage
	bending. Sidepassing, rollbacks, two tracking, circle work 
	(including corkscrews and tipping the nose in and out of the circle 
	etc.), are common exercises done when not in competition (as well as
	conditioning work, of course). The horses who are winning or placing 
	these days are those that have been trained to run the pattern on
	their own with little assistance, HOWEVER, it is common practice
	to ride with headgear that affords greater control in competition
	than when in practice. When you are heading at a stationary object
	at 30 mph 3 times in ~16 or so seconds, it is important to have 
	a great deal of control if needed. These days, barrel racing is
	so competitive, one bauble can cost you hundreds, and sometimes
	thousands of dollars.

 


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)
Subject: leg position, hunt seat
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:37:38 GMT

I want to see the toe turned out slightly at a natural angle.  The leg
is much more effective when the inside/back of the calf is contacting
with the horse, rather than just the inside (most people can't get any
strength, or as most of us refer to it, can't get enough'leg' on the
horse with just the inside calf.

I want the riders wieght sunk down into the heels with a very elastic
ankle (don't lock the ankle down).  The ankle  should be the shock
absorber for some of the motion of the horse, thus it needs to be
elastic.  The balls of the foot should rest on the iron and act as a
fulcrom (hope I used this anology correctly) for the foot to balance on.
Pressur should be kept here (as opposed to weight which encourages
standing in the irons) while the weight is pushed down into the heel.
Do not pinch with the knee as this will push you out of and 'perch' you
in your saddle.  Sit deeply and centered in your saddle.  Your heel
should be lined up under your shoulder and rear-end.  The knee should be
slightly open (this comes with the slightly turned out toe and allows
you maximum contact with the inner-back portion of the calf.)  If the
toe is turned out too much, the knee becomes very open and the back of
the calf is contacting the horse - very ineffective.

Hope this provides an okay picture.

Kitty Cummings
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:35:16 GMT
X-Posted-From: phobos.avs.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I think this is an old cavalry training device.  I first
learned to ride at a place called Briggs Stable in Hanover,
Ma.  Mr. Briggs was an old cavalryman.  Several of the
older girls said that he had pulled this on them.  It was
called "balancing the saddle".  Right up there with riding
Roman.

Linda Merims

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Drivers encounter loose horses - CO2 pistol?
Date: 20 Aug 1992 16:12:25 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx

In article <1992Aug19.213740.3315@cas.org> mlr21@cas.org (Mary Lee Raines) writes:
 >If your horse isn't used to your carrying a whip, start from the ground
 >and get her used to it--touch her all over.  You may want to start with a
 >riding crop because it's a lot shorter and isn't at all floppy.  Then do
 >the same with the dressage whip. I do this with foals to get them used to it.  
 >If they are at all nervous, slack off a bit.  You don't ever want to scare 
 >them with the whip, you just want them to accept it.  I rub their backs 
  (stuff deleted)

I'm confused.  If a horse is not a little scared of the whip, then why
would the whip do any good?  You want them to move away from it.  Or
do you mean they should be apprehensive, but not panicked?

Sarah Pallas (whose lease horse that bolted last week was a good
boy today, without a pulley rein ;-))
From: PIL@psuvm.psu.edu (Jill M. Paige)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Dressage at Devon (Again)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:49:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92232.094937PIL
Organization: Penn State University

Since I didn't get a reply the last time I thought I would post
again.  Does anyone have the dates for Dressage at Devon this
year?  Sure would appreciate any info.

Thanks.

--jill
From: euler@news.mr.med.ge.com.UUCP (Vicki Euler mfg 4-6041)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horse attacking dogs was Drivers encounter ...
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:01:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: mr.1992Aug21.010135.1472
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance

From article <20AUG199216560543@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>, by broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy):
> In article <92233.47873.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes...
>>in wandering so close to a trotting horse. Anyway, when he got close, she
>>arched her neck, and lifted her front feet and struck out at him! I don't
>>think her back raised up more than an inch and she just moved on in her
>>circle right after that. The dog layed down, unhurt.
> 
>> Has anyone seen this kind of reaction in their horses?
> 
> I have SEVERAL horses that think it is jolly fun to chase stray dogs from the
> pasture. My ex-stallion is the only one that appears to be hostile at all
> though. Most of the youngsters are more interesting in "tasting" the dog or
> cat than in pulverizing it while the older horses enjoy the chase more.
> 
> Barbara Roy, University of Iowa, Weeg Computing Center, Iowa City, IA.  52242
> Meadowacres Arabians
> Internet:   broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu or Barbara-Roy@uiowa.edu
> Bitnet:     broyva@uiamvs.bitnet  
> Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.

I was riding a 5 year old TB and she hasnt seen a barn cat before the only thingshe wanted to do was investigate.  She didnt shy or act all crazy actually it
was kind of interesting to watch.
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: head tossing and tooth problems
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:37:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

Regarding head tossing another netter reminded me that back soreness,
usually caused by an ill-fitting saddle can often cause head tossing.
When the horse tosses its head it is also hollowing the back arching
away from the saddle.  Other symptoms of ill-fitting saddles are
girthiness especially in a horse with a normally sweet temper, trying
to move the instant your foot goes in the stirrup or you are
on the horse's back, unwillingness to stand still when halted, raciness,
bucking when first mounted, flinching before you put the saddle on,
restricted shoulder movement when compared to riding bareback,
stretching like a cat after you have dismounted, hair rubbed out from
under the back of the saddle, and uneven sweat marks on the back - 
particularly round or oval drier patches under either the back or the 
front of the saddle, though they can appear anywhere.  A horse does not 
need to show all of these symptoms many are incredibly tolerant of the 
pain they are feeling and only show one or two symptoms.
	Once a problem with back soreness is detected the only solution
is to switch or adjust the saddle.  Additional padding will not correct
it.  The problem is caused by the shape of the tree being improper
for that horse's back and is like trying to wear shoes that rub, pinch,
or are too small.  Some corrections can be made to older western saddles
provided that the problem is very minor, however the only solution for
English saddles or Western saddles that cannot be adjusted is to switch 
saddles to one that does fit.
	Our horses are really remarkably sweet considering what they
go through for us.  (If only they could talk they could tell us where 
it hurt).

				Tracy and everybody
From: alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Drivers encounter loose horses - CO2 pistol?
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:36:29 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

> I personally feel helpless in this situation and bought a CO2
> pistol. It makes more noise than I thought it would so I guess
> I'll have to desensitize George, but I gotta do something. I
> love horses and dogs but... Any thoughts?

I had the same problem and used a squirt bottle with ammonia (this was before
you could get mace).  I did this at the owner's request.  I just mentioned that
the dog was nipping at me, etc, and he said to fill a bottle with ammonia and
squirt it at the dog.  I was young at the time and didn't realize the possible
harm it could do to the dog (blinding, namely), but hey, a GROWNUP (the owner
of the dog) had said it was OK.  After I used it the dog never bothered me
again (and no permanent damage was done).  Anyway, these days I think I would
use mace instead, if it is in face true that it does no permanent damage.

CO2 isn't that great, because the BB can imbed itself in the skin of the animal
and cause an infection.  (I had to dig a few of these out of my dog after some
idiot used it for target practice.)  Also, mace will work against all sorts of
predators (human, canine, etc).

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)
Subject: first horse
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:47:17 GMT

Karen, price and type/level/quality of horses varies tremendously.  What
you should look for in terms of these catagories depends largely on your
level of ability, and what degree or level of competition you want to
reach.  You didn't give us any real indication of your
experience/ability and what you really want to achieve in terms of
competition.  For instance, when you said you'd like to do some barrels
and poles eventually - did you mean you'd like a horse you can have fun
on at small local gymkhanas; or, did you mean you wanted registered QH
that could compete at registered shows with respectable time or that
could compete at least at a regional level of the pro-rodeo/pro-barrel
circuit.  Of course these two different horses are likely to vary *a
lot* in price.

Can you give us more detail about what you're looking for. Also, I think
there is a FAQ on buying horses, with many, many good tips.

Kitty Cummings
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: schneid@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider)
Subject: Re: huntseat hand position
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:28:23 GMT

While sitting at your terminal, put your hands in the "puppy paws"
position.  What happens?  Your elbows come away from your body.
Rotate your hands into the proper "thumbs up" position, and your
elbows move into the proper place.  Also, it seems difficult to
properly carry a crop or whip if your hands are not in the correct
position.

One other good reason is that if you use two sets of reins, you can
hold those reins above and below, as opposed to side to side.  Then
you will be able to pull on one set of reins without adjusting the 
other by pivoting your wrists.  Really!  It works!
-- 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!! Mike Schneider schneid@jerry.stat.uiuc.edu !!
!! University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign !!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Hunt Seat Hand position
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:31:47 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:


>I need some assistance from some of you 'hunt seat' people out there.

>I was always told by my instructors that the proper position for the
>hands is with the wrist straight, having a straight line through forearm,
>wrist, hands, reins to the horses mouth.  The hand is to be with thumb
>on top, not 'cocked' or bent.   Currently, lots of the people around here
>are showing in hunt classes with their hands in the 'doggie paw' position,
>very low on the withers.  These people seem to be winning.  Since I am
>helping my girl friend's daughters with their riding, I was telling them
>to ride the way I have been trained.  Is this just a local thing?  Should
>I change my technique?

I haven't heard that "piano hands" (which is what I _think_ you're 
talking about here - knuckles up?) are in vogue in equitation circles -
as far as I know, "thumbs up, fingers closed, straight line from elbow
to mouth" is still correct.  There may be other reasons that these kids
are winning, overriding their hand position, and it _does_ depend on
whether this is "hunter on the flat" or "equitation" - as I'm sure you
know, as long as the horse looks good in the flat (vs. equitation) classes,
pretty much anything the rider does is ok (as long as it's not distracting).

Maybe the judges are looking more at heels (always _my_ bane), legs, and
seat?  What level riders are we talking about here?

Pat
--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcumming@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (kcumming)
Subject: side-pulls
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:04:29 GMT

Side pulls come in many different styles than just the single rope nose
band with no bit and side rings.  The basci construction of the
side-pull will have the rings on the side and some sort of nose band.
It's purpose is just what its name implies - it is supposed to enhance
lateral or side to side movement/bending.  They are trianing gear and
are not permissible in any actual competition that I am aware.

Side pulls can, and many do have bits.  I have seen side pulls that
range from the previously mentioned stif rope only to stif rope with
plain snaffle mouths; gag bits with the nose band; nose bands from
single semi stiff rope to all steel and everything in between.  Bits
contain all sortsa of moutbh pieces.  Of course you'll never see a
'Curb'  (this would mean that it has to ahve shanks) as this would
effectively negate the equipment as a side-pull.  In other words, if it
had shanks then it cannot be a side-pull.  A side pull must have some
sort of nose band and side rings for your reins.  If it doesn't, then
it's not a side-pull.

Kitty Cummings
Kit-Mar Appaloosas
Ritter Hof German Shepherds
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: hunt seat equitation
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:34:31 +0000

woit@qucis.queensu.ca (Denise Woit) writes:
 
> When I went to this lesson, the instructor said that my toes and
> knees should point out, that I should always be gripping with the
> lower leg, and that I should post from the lower leg, not knees.
> (As you have probably guessed, I joined a lesson that was working
> on the posting trot.)

The way I am being taught, here in England, is that the toes should
point forwards, the leg should be relaxed (as much as possible), ie.
you should not grip with any part of the leg, but the lower leg
should be in contact with the horse slightly behind the girth. If
you grip with the lower leg it becomes very difficult to apply the
leg aids for different movements. Gripping with the knees can lead
to you (the rider) becoming unbalanced as effectively you end up
sitting on top of the saddle rather than in it and your lower leg
has a greater tendency to come away from the sides of the horse
(also picture what happens when you grip a wet bar of soap - it
tries to fly out of your hand - much the same thing happens when you
grip with your knees).


Alan.
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: What is Milton's breeding?
Date: 23 Aug 92 07:08:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 8396  sue@aeshq.UUCP (Susan Grocott) writes:

>A while ago someone (sorry I forget who :-) asked about Milton's breeding.

	Thanks!  I was the one who asked, I thank both of you who looked
this up for me, I appreciate it.

>The discussion seemed to be along the lines of "...everyone was surprised
>he could jump because his father was ..... and his mother was only ...".

	Well I wasn't surprised, of course I have a little 14.1 hand Arabian
filly who the first time she turned a corner in a jumping pen and saw a
little 2 footer in front of her picked up her feet and sailed right over
it like she was a pro.  (I know it isn't olympic level but I was pleased!)
	Milton is a beautiful horse, I was very impressed with his style
and willingness.  

					Tracy and everybody 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: fippen@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu (John W. Fippen - Invoice)
Subject: Characteristics for dressaage
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:56:13 GMT

 We have Arab horses and train in dressage. We've had the horses for 23
years but only been in dressage 5 years. At this point I'm beginning to
see the desireable characteristics of a good dressage horse. You know , of
course, that dressage is like a cross between balerina and gymnastics for
the horses. We have 2 show horses and 7 horses in training now, so our
sample is large enough to see differences. In the halter world they have a
saying "he stands to front"; it is undesireable here, but in dressage it is
highly desireable. The hind legs have to be far enough under the horse to
be about 12" forward of the tailhead (normal horses are about 6"
forward); this forward stance gives the horse the ability to "track", that is,
one foot falls in the track of another. It naturaly follows that such a horse
will drive from the hocks and will  thus NOT be heavy on the fore but
rather light and airy; THIS is the ultimate in dressage if you also have a
horse that is obedient and happy. Happy riding.  John Fippen


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: riding without a girth?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:01:32 GMT

In article <18AUG199211040106@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>,
afallen@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (E. Allen Arrington) writes:
>but that's another long story).  During our efforts to help the horse
>theere was a lesson going on in the arena and the student was riding the
>horse (hunt seat) without a girth.  Is this a normal teaching practice?
>

Are you serious? Did she die or what? I am utterly amazed.

-gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: Cautiously good news
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 00:45:45 +0000

In <1992Aug14.193403.3488@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu
writes:
 
> For all of you who have been pulling for me and my mare, I have tentative
> good news from the vet in N.C. where she is in pasture with the stallion.
> 
> The vet palpated her in foal this week (about four weeks along).  I am 

Fingers crossed here. I do hope everything works out this time.

Alan.