HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: St. Louis Arch BASE Jump
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:34:08 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!cd.amdahl.com!drp40

>So does this mean it's being shown on the news?  Anywhere? anybody?

 r> Aw, come on!  Showing that sort of blatent disregard for all social
 r> standards on television would only encourage others!  

The media have degenerated into a sideshow and would definitely be all over each other to get this and show it.  Don't kid yourself.

 r> BTW, how do you all feel about jumps like this (illegal BASE jumping 
 r> and the like)?  I mean, no one can say it's *good* for the sport.  Do you
 r> think it gives skydiving/skydivers a bad rap, or is the public (and the
 r> media) smart enough to just blame the individuals?

The media is stupid, but I think as a rule the public sees it for what it is.  An individual doing something wild and/or spectacular.  They get vicarious thrills too.  I think it might be likened to going over the falls in a barrel.  Not many would want to try it, and just because the guy happens to be an accountant or belong to the JayCees or something they aren't going to condemn the whole group as being just as crazy.

BTW, I don't see what you mean by "disregard for social standards" above.  What standards are you referring to?

Bill Caefer
CCR-108


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Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: kadingo@ssd.intel.com (Jim W. Kadingo)
Subject: Oregon fatality
Followup-To: rec.skydiving
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:06:43 GMT

The following is from the Sunday Oregonian, September 27 (reprinted without
permission):

	SKYDIVER MAKING FIRST JUMP KILLED IN SHERIDAN AIRPORT FALL

	SHERIDAN -- A skydiver making his first jump was killed 
	Saturday near the Sheridan airport after his parachute 
	failed to open properly.

	David Skuzesk, 23, of Beaverton jumped from the plane at 
	3:15 p.m. at 4,500 feet, said Yamhill County Sheriff's 
	detective Jack Crabtree.  After his primary parachute opened, 
	Skuzesk went into a spiral spin.

	Skuzesk cut off the first chute and pulled open his backup, 
	but there wasn't enough time for it to open before he hit 
	the ground.
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: You're dead -- unless you pull (was Re: Tiny Broadwick
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:50:08 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1142.2AD1986C@ehsnet.fidonet.org> SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) writes:
>Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
>Fido-To: romulus!lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com!
>
> r> I doubt that we will be enough to get a statistically significant number
> r> but who knows?!
> r> Note that I am not interested in equipment failure but human failure.
>
>But equipment failure is the only 'real' malfunction.  Human failure is just human failure, not a true malfunction.
>
> r>                 rounds                                  squares
> r>         #jumps          #mal                    #jumps          #mal
>
> r> Philip  50              1                       1200            8
>    Bill    50              0                       2200            0

I more or less agree with you but the point is that on most cases one
cannot truly be sure.
For instance: you twist your belly band and can't pull your hand-deploy.
Some would call that equipment failure as the equipment failed to tell the
user that it was put wrong.

For instance: a bad body position for a fraction of an instant at a
crucial time during the deployment sequence may result in a malfunction:
how can one really say that they had a true malfunction or not? It is a
judgment call.

When people are asking how safe is the sport, do you think it is fair to
tell them that the equipement rarely fails? Not if you do not add that
most malfunctions are pilot errors. Yet those are the ones who kill the
most and hence cannot be ignored.

When someone gets killed, someone gets killed. It is academic to say that
his equipment performed well....


-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Number of jumps
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:22:45 GMT


             rounds                  squares                 aad
        #jumps     #mal         #jumps      #mal       saves      #mal
Mark	  10        0              450        1          0         2
Pete       0        0             1300        0
Philip    50        1             1200        8
Pierre    45        0             1200        0
Vilhuber   0        0              115        0

1. I added AAD saves/problems to the list.  I've had some problems with
   them and I didn't want to count them as parachute malfunctions.

2. Philip, 8 mals in 1200 jumps is considered high (by me at least);
   what was the context?
-- 
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    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Parachutist
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:23:28 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Oct4.052433.6064@mercury.cair.du.edu> jvilhube@diana.cair.du.edu (Jan Vilhuber) writes:
>Just two thoughts on this month's issue of Parachutist:
>One: Congrats Art for your Gold Wings and 12-Hour..
>
>Two: Was reading the advertisement for Dytter. It seems they introduced
>	a new feature: an LED that blinks when the alarm goes off. 
>	Now correct me if I'm wrong (I don't own a dytter), but most
>	people wouldn't mount the thing somewhere in from of they're face,
>	would they? I mean, unless they ship fiberoptical cable with it, to route
>	the light close to the eye, a blinding flash of light or something...
>	*I* don't think so!
>	What the hell good would an LED do?!

For one thing, as you ride the airplane on the way up, you could test your
dytter without having to stick the damn thing in your ear!

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: porman@encore.com (Paul Orman)
Subject: Re: Number of jumps
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:42:10 GMT

mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith) writes:
>             rounds                  squares                 aad
>        #jumps     #mal         #jumps      #mal       saves      #mal
>Mark	  10        0              450        1          0         2
>Pete       0        0             1300        0
>Philip    50        1             1200        8
>Pierre    45        0             1200        0
>Vilhuber   0        0              115        0
Paul        0        0              218        0

I don't have an AAD so I guess thats 0 and 0.
................................................................................
Paul Orman - porman@encore.com         |  I don't know enough to speak for
ENCORE Computer Corporation            |  myself, let alone my employer.
Ft Lauderdale, FL (305) 587-2900       |
-- 
...............................................................................
Paul Orman - porman@encore.com         |  I don't know enough to speak for
ENCORE Computer Corporation            |  myself, let alone my employer.
Ft Lauderdale, FL (305) 587-2900       |
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: bungee vs. skydiving
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:23:00 GMT

Reply-to: Anthony.Maglietta@p0.f2.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Anthony Maglietta)
Fido-To: bill caefer

-> r> : How would you describe the difference between bungee-ing and
-> skydiving? r> : I bungeed from a 175+ foot high crane, and am
-> interested in skydiving. r> : Anyone have any comparison comments?
What makes me laugh is the people that get an attitude after making a
bungee.  I have been a skydiver for 1.5 years now and I made my first
bungee last month.  I will never do it again.  It was so boring.  If you
want a real thrill, go out of a plane.  14,000 ft is 80 times higher
than your bungee.  Also, you are in control; you can't hesitate on a
bungee....you can only bounce back up.  If you hesitate on a parachute,
you will inherit the earth.  The rush that you get from a bungee is
infintesimal compared to a skydive.  Give it a try; you will never
bungee again.  Also, I do not know what you paid for your bungee...I
paid $70.  $70 gets me 6 skydives.

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From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: You're dead -- unless you pull (was Re: Tiny Broadwick
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:06:34 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com!

 r> I doubt that we will be enough to get a statistically significant number
 r> but who knows?!
 r> Note that I am not interested in equipment failure but human failure.

But equipment failure is the only 'real' malfunction.  Human failure is just human failure, not a true malfunction.

 r>                 rounds                                  squares
 r>         #jumps          #mal                    #jumps          #mal

 r> Philip  50              1                       1200            8
    Bill    50              0                       2200            0



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Organization: University/Publications & Printing, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Date: Mon,  5 Oct 1992 08:49:18 -0400 
From: Greg Clarke <gc2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Bridge Day, New River, when?

Heya,

Anyoune know when the annual bridge day is? The new river, second or
third saturday in october. I'm not sure of the date yet. 

Also any info on parking, camping, getting close to launching area and DZ?
Interested in rapelling/climbing or biking/hiking, or just driving if
feeling lazy, from top to bottom.

Thanks for any help

greg clarkeg.c2a.andrew.edu.cmu 
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Subject: Re: Our daily philosophy question
Keywords: beer
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:04:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.031811.28129@mercury.cair.du.edu> jvilhube@diana.cair.du.edu (Jan Vilhuber) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.215948.13060@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn) writes:
>>Personnally, I don't drink.  So, I don't drink anyone else's beer.  I don't 
>>like the idea of supporting someone else's drinking.  If I buy anything, it's
>>usually root beer.  Besides, this sport is expensive enough, why do we have to
>>add more costs?  Just say, "No!"  ;-)
>
>Actually, there's a simple trick, how to not buy beer:
>You just ignore everyone that says you owe a case. I hate to admit it,
>but I still owe beer from my graduation, and have not bought any beer
>since then.

!@#$%^&*()

OK fine.  Just don't drink any that someone else buys.  It really
doesn't matter.  If they let you get away that at your DZ, then the
case rule is not a big thing.  At other DZs, it is a very important
part of the social scene.  And the social scene, to me, is almost as
important as the skydiving itself.  Not as adrenalin charged of
course.

>            Personally, I don't like the idea either. Why should I pay
>beer for everybody else to get drunk?

Because its a tradition.  No other reason.  At our DZ we don't gunge,
but other places do, simply because they always have.  Every place has
their odd traditions that outsiders don't quite understand.  You
either accept them, change them, or remain an outsider.

>                                      I don't drink that much and hardly
>ever when I'm at the DZ (i gotta drive home, remember? Call me boring...).

Me niether.  But then it's impossible to get drunk on free cases
anyway.  Too many freeloaders.

>So... I don't. I just ignore people who say I owe.

I ignore about 99% of the people who say I owe.  (First time I picked
my nose on the way to height while sitting next to a girl with red
hair.  Was that right?  I'll remember that for this weekend).  But
when I do something worth buying for, then I know.


Bob V!
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Skydiving in central AL
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:27:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: ehsnet.1113.2ACD24DC

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!uunet.uu.net!mark%virtech%v

 r> SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org) wrote:
 r> : Anyway, you can always call Rucker info and ask for the club number eh?

 r> Just out of curiosity, where is Ft. Rucker.  I was just down in AL
 r> and was queerying my map for it and I couldn't find it.

Oh, well, find Dothan.  Then look west about 30 miles or so for Daleville.  Some maps don't list military bases, but Daleville is right outside the gate.



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From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: You're dead -- unless you pull (was Re: Tiny Broadwick
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:43:10 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.


Just for kicks and concerning malfunction rates of main parachutes, why
don't we all write the number of jumps we have and the number of main
malfunctions we got so far.
I doubt that we will be enough to get a statistically significant number
but who knows?!
Note that I am not interested into equipment failure but human failure.

		rounds					squares
	#jumps		#mal			#jumps		#mal

Philip	50		1			1200		8
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Advice for new jumpers buying gear
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:32:56 GMT

>>	Avoid micro lines on mini-risers-- 
>>	one or the other but not both as it's not a structurally sound 
>>	combination.  
>
>I don't know about this...I have 500 jumps on microline/miniriser combo
>with no adverse experience. (175 lbs suspended on a PD150)

This relates to the RSL/riser failure problem, I think. One of 
the manufacturers claimes that the microline/miniriser combination
was more vunerable (particularly with a roll pack, full moon, etc)
because the microlines don't absorb as much shock as std lines.
I'm sure it can be a safe system, but may be weakening the 
weakest link.....

>
>>	I don't like micro lines, personally.  
>>	They cut people up too easily in a collision, 
>
>Geez Robin!  You aren't supposed to collide with people!  And I
>doubt many novices really intend on doing a lot of 4way rotation 
>CRW (:-).
>

Actually, I know a guy with more than a thousand jumps, much crew
experience, etc, and he had a collision w/ a microlined canopy
and was cut up pretty bad. He quit jumping for a while, but now
he's back.  I guess I'm not sure what microline buys you, so
I want to stay away from it. I'm a big guy, so I'd probably 
break 'em.  I know a guy not much bigger than me who was 
busting a line or two every jump- he sent the thing back and
told them to put std lines on- no more problems. They say
they're stong, but I have my doubts. 


It was good to hear some riggers' comments (you're a rigger,
right jerry?). I think Robin's comments were pretty good
guidelines (basicly , stick with std stuff while you're new). 
We can all add to them and polish them, and maybe store them
in the archive as gear.purchace.guidelines, or something (EJ ?)

It's easy to get swayed into buying *anything* when you're new.
This could be helpful for "first gear seekers".

Thanks Jerry, Robin, and all others who contribute!



Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Setting DYTTERS
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 00:01:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.164752.2593@wdl.loral.com> WALKERK@ssvax1.ssd.loral.com ('Kent Walker') writes:
>In <1992Oct1.224351.17527@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>
>> I first set my DYTTER at about 3500 or 3000 to remind me that it's 
>> time to stop RW.  I soon found this was asking for trouble when I
>> started to depend on it.  I quickly moved my set point to 2 grand,
>> as a "hey you idiot, get that damn main out" reminder, in the event
>> that I'm distracted (like by trying to avoid another jumper, or
>> trying to track out of the area of an open canopy of some jerk
>> that went low and dumped). Now I'm thinking that it might be better
>> as a "lower" warning. I feel I have good altitude awareness (at 
>> least reasonable) in these situations, but not nearly enough
>> altitude awareness when I'm in deployment. Sometimes my cheststrap
>> twists on opening and I can't even see my altimeter. 
>> 
>> I agree a two-tone DYTTER would be better.
>
>The DYTTER is similar to a ParAlert, isn't it - approximately a 10-second tone? 
>If so, you already have a two-tone system.  Set it for about 3000 feet for
>break-off.  When the tone STOPS(!) you know you're getting too low.  If you
>can't hear the tone or can't determine when the tone stops, you're already
>placing too much faith in technology to save your life.

The problem with this arguement is that I might as well say "why use a DYTER 
at all?"  The reason I don't set my DYTER at break off is because one
can become reliant on the DYTER.  I only want it as an emergency alert-
an alarm.  I don't beleive this is "placing faith in technology"  I DO
beleive setting the DYTER at breakoff IS placing faith in technology (
and the person that has to set the dyter each jump).  If I use it
as an emergency ALARM, then I should NEVER have to use it, therefore
I ain't relying on it, and if I DO hear it, then it's a damn good thing
I had it. If it fails, then I ain't no better off than if I didn't have
it (considering I've never had to use it before, then I don't think
one can say that I'M Relying on it). It's a EMERGENCY reminder that if I
ever hear, then it's a good thing I had it. The altimeter should
be used for determining where to breakoff.  

Your point about the 10 second tone is valid.  Perhaps a slightly 
shorter tone, and one in each ear. 

-Eric

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King)
Subject: Re: Setting DYTTERS
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 00:29:26 GMT

bunda@cs.utexas.edu (John Bunda) writes:

>I think I disagree with both of these strategies.  After spending
>almost $200 for the thing, I want it to work for me and give me useful
>information on every jump, and during freefall, not when I should be
>under canopy.  If it's going off then, first of all, it's too loud,
>and second, it's not giving me useful information during the most
>common situation - everything goes right.

	First, who cares if it's loud under canopy? 

	Second, I wouldn't want to get too used to hearing it
	in freefall as you might subconsciously become dependent 
	and start waiting for the cue.  This isn't a good situation
	as the unit could fail some day.

	Third, the cost/frequency of use is not important; it only	
	needs to pay for itself in an emergency.  Like your reserve.
	Use your altimeter for useful info on every jump.

>Plus, it's not like they
>are absolutely reliable.  Setting it to elicit a panic reaction if it
>goes off in freefall is a recipe for disaster...

	No need to freak if you set it high enough to have _some_ time 
	to deal with a problem.  Besides, panicky types shouldn't be
	in this sport; panics are a recipe for disaster.  

>like the idea of a 900 foot warning though; maybe a dual-tone dytter,
>with one tone to mean wrap up the skydive, and another one to mean
>pull your reserve.

	Not a bad idea, except I'd change it to one tone to mean
	you'd better have pulled by now, and another to mean pull
	that reserve NOW.   
	
	To each her own.  I don't have a Dytter yet anyway.  :^)

	Robin King
	king@glacier.stanford.edu   

	
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Setting DYTERS 
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:11:59 GMT

Eric Perozziello (eap@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: I'd like to toss this one out for the rest of ya'll to ponder:
: No, I don't set my DYTER for "normal pull-altitude", and I 
: currently set it as Robin describes. (I think the reason here is that
: one might become dependant on the DYTER to tell them when to
: pull- Bad!)

Hmmmm... this made me think of something on a slightly different
vein.  I have this built-in brain-clock that makes me look at my
altimeter at approximately the right time.

During the winter months I get really used to jumping between 6-8k,
but it was also during that period I went down to The Keys and made
some fantastic dives from 15k.  The interesting thing was that my
built-in brain-clock ticked off at around 8k or so.  Hell, only a
little more than half the dive was over and my pull instinct was
kicking in.

Anyone else?
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving