HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: nyx.du.edu
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:52:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.192922.22669@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cfuentes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Carlos A. Fuentes Jr.) writes:
>In article <oeze3Mu00UhBI2TQIS@andrew.cmu.edu> wg2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Gregory) writes:
>>    O.K., I am now starting to really believe the heretofore mentioned
>>theory that the people at nyx.du.edu are largely one person trying to
>>pull our collective legs. [...]
>>
>>-Scott
>
>I did a finger earlier on Mr. Greever and his last login
>was from FENRIS.CLAREMONT.  Sound familiar, folks?
>
Wait a second--I log on to nyx (university of Devner) via telnet from the
system at UTSA--and the last time I checked, I was a real person!! :-)
(although with the strange stuff posted from their I understand the suspicions
people have)
Simon
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: kinsler@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler)
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
Organization: Physics Morgue of Despair, The University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:59:31 GMT

|> In article <1992Nov9.030122.22029@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Geoff Allen) writes:
|> >
|> >Just dawned on me - you people are some of the most open-minded I know
|> >when it comes to technological issues/ implications on society, but how
|> >come there are so few women participating in the Industrial and/or
|> >Cyberpunk movements? Is there something inherently sexist about Cp that
|> >I'm just missing? Same thing with industrial music; why do these genres
|> >have so few women participating in them???

In article <1992Nov9.033906.28905@athena.cs.uga.edu>, houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk) writes:
|> I'll take a stab at this...
|> 
|> Cyberpunk and industrial music both generally include very little
|> emotion - .... [edited]

I would tend to put a different slant on this: women tend to be
more interested in the "personal" and "relationship" side of
things than men, who tend to approach things in a more
abstract way.

Cyberpunk and industrial are technology oriented, which accords
more with the biases of men than those of women.

So now we have had some *male* views, how about the other side?

-- 
+soluble fish+
Masks beneath masks until suddenly the bare bloodless skull : Salman Rushdie, "The Satanic Verses"
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
	<9211091358.AA11229@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
	<1992Nov9.165817.19392@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:59:18 GMT

On Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:58:17 GMT, dskimish@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Skimishara) said:
 D> In article <> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:

 D> oh, did his belief offend you?

	No, his preaching at me did.  He's free to believe that G-d is a
blue ferret living in Anaheim under a rosebush for all I care.  Just
don't come screaming it in my face.

  >	Yet, what do you practice in the name of your god:  Murder,
  >Hatred, and Intolerance.

 D> If you know the poster well enough to know that he is a murderer, why do
 D> you anger him with your flame?

	Come off it.  You know what I was trying to point out, so don't
act dense.

  >	If we each followed the Golden Rule: "That which is hateful unto
  >you, do not unto your brother; this is the whole of Torah, the rest is
  >commentary." [Rabbi Hillel, well before your Nazarean spoke it]

 D> Jesus re-emphasized many old testament truths.  That makes neither Jesus's
 D> message, nor Jesus himself less important. 

	He mouthed the words of great Torah scholars and added nothing
of his own, except a few misinterpretations.  I'd say that makes him
"less important."

	Followups to talk.religion.misc.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Or perhaps alt.messianic?  Certainly not alt.sex.bondage, anyway."
From: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: CyberHero
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:19:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 


I've been using CyberHero for a few weeks now, and I gotta admit it leaves a
lot to be desired as a genre book.  I love the Hero system, almost to 
exclusion of anything else but Storyteller, but this thing could have been
a little less vague.  I know it was a big chunk of work, but several problems
plague the book in the editing realm.  Notably, of the 200+ pages, 14 are
dedicated to cyberware, a major component of almost every cyberpunk game.
14 pages.
That's it.
And the limitations applied to the cyberware are pretty lame.  Some ware gets
limitations that don't really apply (esp. "Doesn't affect figured stats"). 
And the cyberlimbs are really lame (pun guilty).  They provide an extra
BODY, but only for that limb. HUH?  Does that mean the arms just harder to
disable or impair?  Unless I've missed something over the last 5 years, there
are no provisions in Hero for different BODY values per location.

The equipment lists are pretty nice.  They have a lot of neat stuff, and some
cool new guns.  The vehicles section bites the large weenie.  

The games only real point gets made in two places.  
1. A consistent way for all cyberpunk Hero players to buy a datajack (Direct
       Neural Interface).
2. Netrunning is something that is likewise consistent for players (with 
Persona programs being basically superheros with a variable power pool based on
memory in the cyberdeck)
yberdecks correspond to computers in the majority, and that's cool by me.

Of course, there are going to be problems with any sourcebook, but this 
market is such a big one at the moment that I would have (and did) expect
more.  I honestly prefer the GURPS Cyberpunk book to this one, and I don't
even play GURPS.

But I'm still playing with it, so that's gotta count for some kind of positive
endorsement, right?

Mykel


 -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: I'm afraid of dying, without knowing why I lived
                                 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk)
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
Organization: Jaundice Digest - Athens Georgia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:39:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.030122.22029@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Geoff Allen) writes:
>
>Just dawned on me - you people are some of the most open-minded I know
>when it comes to technological issues/ implications on society, but how
>come there are so few women participating in the Industrial and/or
>Cyberpunk movements? Is there something inherently sexist about Cp that
>I'm just missing? Same thing with industrial music; why do these genres
>have so few women participating in them???
>
>Just wondering...
>Geoff Allen

I'll take a stab at this...

Cyberpunk and industrial music both generally include very little
emotion - and what emotion there is is usually channeled into your
standard macho hate vibes. Women, in general, are quite less inhibited
about expressing themselves emotionally. Therefore - it's quite
naturally that something as bleak as most industrial music and cp will
alienate most gals out there. CP and industrial therefore become
predominiately male, since their context is male-oriented.

Any other questions?

Joshua Houk
-- 
houk@athena.cs.uga.edu * email for rockin' indie-list info!
Here we are on fucking Earth Day throwing fucking tomatoes! But you
don't care. You don't fucking care! You just pay the bills! You got
your money.   - Rob Alexander
From: Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu (Dan Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Unicorn scene in Bladerunner
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:34:54 GMT
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk
Organization: Chiba City

In article <cjq1h6f@rpi.edu>, lensbs@rs6216.ecs.rpi.edu wrote:
> 
> who cares about the stupid unicorn.  it was stupid (yes it did serve some
> useful purpose I'm sure)  but why bother trying to decipher what it means

Because we are interested in the deeper meaning of the film?

> if you picked up on what it meant good for you, if not oh well it was just
> another point in the movie to make it seem even more chaotic.  It's just

Um, we *did* pick up on what it means, that why we are talking about it
now.

> a thought...one does not have to understand every last detail a movie
> to enjoy it, actually in most instances it is better to go in there

The unicorn scene can hardly be described as a "last detail."  It is so out
of place that the conscious viewer knows that Scott is obviously trying to
say something. 

> oblivious to the analization of the movie and just try to pick up what comes
> to your mind naturally.  

Yes, ignorance is pretty blissful.  Why ask why, just do it, and gotta have
it, right?

>Try watching something like Wayne's World or Ren and
> Stimpy analitically, it's not quite the same.
> 		sean

You're right, they are not the same.  One is a brilliant work of
science-fiction and social comentary merged into a pretty exciting action
move; the others are mindless drivel produced to be lapped up by the
sleep-walking masses.
-------------------------
Dan Weiss
Washington DC
Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu
Dweiss@auvm.american.edu
Flammable@IRC
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk)
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:52:48 GMT

In article <phutter.6.721324700@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu> phutter@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu (PATRICK HUTTER) writes:
>
>It is obvious that you have not met many women in your life, or you just 
>plain ignored them. Stating that women are, in general, "quite less 
>inhibited about expressing themselves emotionally" is ridiculous. Some of 
>the people I have met, who express the most emotional, are women. There is 
>no such thing as male and female emotions: they are all the same. The only 
>difference between male and female (aside of the obvious physical ones) is 
>that women have the strength to give birth, something I, as a male, know men 
>can not.
>							Greetings,
>							Macbeth

Ouch - insert a big huge 'F' here for comprehension. You failed. Jesus
Christ, did you ever misinterpret my post.

For the make-up test: just read this again and report back. I really
hope you'll do better next time...

>>Cyberpunk and industrial music both generally include very little
>>emotion - and what emotion there is is usually channeled into your
>>standard macho hate vibes. Women, in general, are quite less inhibited
>>about expressing themselves emotionally. Therefore - it's quite
>>naturally that something as bleak as most industrial music and cp will
>>alienate most gals out there. CP and industrial therefore become
>>predominiately male, since their context is male-oriented.

Joshua Houk
-- 
houk@athena.cs.uga.edu * email for indie-list info!
Heaven sucks unless you're dead.
   - Sleepyhead
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5715 alt.industrial:719 alt.sex:35981 alt.sex.bondage:21769
From: dsb@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Scott Bigham)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Ye Golden Rule
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:55:54 GMT
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk
Organization: n. Arrangement in an orderly or logical fashion.  See "miracle".

From the Holy Book of <1992Nov12.154435.8398@crash>
  as spake by malloy@crash.cts.com (Sean Malloy) :

>If you're going to use that quote, don't grab part of it out of context,
>use the whole thing:

>  "An it harm none, do what thou wilt be the whole of the law."

Actually, I think you're mixing two separate quotes.  The quote you're
thinking of, I believe, goes something like "'Do what thou wilt' shall
be the whole of the law" (related to Crowleyism or some such, as I
recall).  The first bit is in fact the Witches' Rede:  "An it harm none,
do as you will."

[Having said this, I don't doubt I'll be proven wrong and royally flamed
for my troubles.  Ah well, c'est la net.]

						-sbigham
-- 
Scott Bigham                   | Somewhere between mind and madness
dsb@romeo.cs.duke.edu          | Somewhere between fantasy and death
bigham@hercules.acpub.duke.edu | Somewhere between earth and hell
     I hereby disclaim.        | This is where you will find me
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: gallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Geoff Allen)
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:39:18 GMT

In article <BxHCB9.7AH@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au> kinsler@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler) writes:
>|> In article <1992Nov9.030122.22029@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gallen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Geoff Allen) writes:
>|> >
>|> >Just dawned on me - you people are some of the most open-minded I know
>|> >when it comes to technological issues/ implications on society, but how
>|> >come there are so few women participating in the Industrial and/or
>|> >Cyberpunk movements? Is there something inherently sexist about Cp that
>|> >I'm just missing? Same thing with industrial music; why do these genres
>|> >have so few women participating in them???
>
>In article <1992Nov9.033906.28905@athena.cs.uga.edu>, houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk) writes:
>|> I'll take a stab at this...
>|> 
>|> Cyberpunk and industrial music both generally include very little
>|> emotion - .... [edited]
>
>I would tend to put a different slant on this: women tend to be
>more interested in the "personal" and "relationship" side of
>things than men, who tend to approach things in a more
>abstract way.

Yes but the CP/Industrial movement isn't THAT large.  SUrely there are
some women out there at least on the "fringe" elements of society who
are willing to buck these stereotypes and join men in cyberculture.
And no, I don't think women have less faculties for abstraction - it's
just the mainstream stereotype.  Same with men and interpersonal
relationships.  You'd think a more "open-minded" society would
tend to eliminate these stereotypes at least within their own field.

 > >Cyberpunk and industrial are technology oriented, which accords
>more with the biases of men than those of women.

Well, this is the kind of thing I was afraid people would say.  I think in
the _mainstream_ culture women are supposedly discouraged by technology
but in Industrial we examine the "fringes" of technology.  It still
suprises me that given such an alternative base women are still
discouraged from entering. >


Note that I am not accusing industrial/cyberculture of discriminating
against women in any way.  I personally don't know of any examples.  I
just want to know how exactly less women enter the scene than you'd think
there would be (and no, I don't believe in _innate_ differences)

Geoff Allen
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Wanted: Essays/etc. on sexism in Cyberpunk
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:30:36 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

jessec@yang.earlham.edu writes:
> jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) writes: 
> > rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >> Could anyone please tell me where I could find/get 
> >> essays/articles/papers on sexism in cyberpunk?  I have a 
> >> feminist friend who always calls me a sexist pig because I 
> >> happened to have read a few cyberpunk books.

I say:
> > does she give an reasons -why- she considers cyberpunk to be
> > sexist? has she read any herself? 

jessec says:
> I'd also be curious to know-- does she read any science fiction at 
> all? Which authors/periods? (I'd assume she'd go for Wilhelm, Russ, 
> LeGuin, Tiptree, the great feminist stars of the New Wave?)

i say:
> > some of the most powerful characters in cyberpunk happen to be 
> > women.

jessec says:
> There are definitely a lot of strong women in Shirley's novels, and 
> there's an awareness of certain aspects of reality that the big 
> male authors have not been strong on, i.e. rape and the existence 
> of legitimate same-sex attractions. 
> Gibson's focus on his women wavers, threatens at times to collapse 
> into cardboard film-noir conventions, but occasionally he really 
> seems to come through... Molly, Marly, and Kumiko Yanaka are such 
> moments.  And what he implies is as important as what's there; I'm 
> recalling a scene in *Count Zero* where there's a brief 
> conversation between Turner and an anonymous woman, a black-medic, 
> who mentions her (female!) partner and their kid...

i say:
> > if she can't document reasons for her opinion then it's 
> > probably another case of rabid feminism & you are under no 
> > obligation to "prove" your point. (you won't be able to anyway, 
> > it's not like that sort ever listens to reason.)

jessec says:
> Well, it's something to argue about... anyway, don't take men like 
> Mr. Steiner so seriously.  It's not like that sort ever listens to 
> reason. :-)

ahh, but i do. especially when someone such as yourself expands on
my original points so well. :^) many thanks.

jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`              PGP 2.0 public key available on request.               `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.sex,alt.industrial,alt.sex.stories.d
From: pochanay@cae.wisc.edu (Adisak Pochanayon)
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:54:40 CST

In article <mwL7TB2w165w@ziggys.cts.com> dreamer@ziggys.cts.com 619/262-6384 (Dreamer) writes:
>mstrouck@nyx.cs.du.edu (Stroucki!) writes:
>
>} In article <1992Nov9.042959.25420@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sgreever@nyx.cs.du.edu
>} >who can have children together.  Everything else is not sex; it is
>} >SODOMY.  Please take the rest of your discussions to alt.sodomy, because
>} >some of us with different sensibilities do not want to see this in our
>} >other newsgroups.  I suppose there are people under 18 reading this board
>} >
>} >too; such un-genteel discussion is NOT for their ears (or mine, for that
>} >mater)  The Bible tells us the meaning of sex; why should we go against i
>} 
>} Go to hell, you religious fanatic. People are here for a reason, to be dirty.
>} Stroucki!
>
>The bible that I remember reads more like..."What the hell you doing on a 
>ALT.SEX post for in the first place to even know what is being said...It 
>looks to me like another one of THEM people who try to use the bible only 
>when it serves themselves some kinda gain.....What would your Pastor say
>if I told him you spend most of your time reading an ALT.SEX feed.... In 
>case you are unaware of it, Quoting from the BIBLE does not even begin to
>cleanse thy eyes from all this good hot wet nasty words we love to put 
>here for you to sneek around to read....
>
>              dreamer@ziggys.cts.com - BBS (619)262-6384
>                 Ziggy's Den Of Iniquity 


     I have always refused to believe a literal interpretation of the Bible
because I feel that the Bible is just man describing God and Jesus.  There is
a saying, "don't fear those that have seen the light but those who have been
blinded by it".  And remember, it also says in the Bible that Satan will twist
God's words to disguise himself and that therefore, the Bible will be quoted
to do much evil.

     Those who believe they are the righteous are the ones going to hell.  The
sinner who knows his soul is black who turns to God in humility and mercy shall
ascend to Jesus' throne.

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: rau@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Drivvt)
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Organization: Menzoberranzan Computer Networking 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:59:07 GMT

Jesus Christ walked on water.  Sure he did!  It was the middle of fucking
January in Chicago, though.  Why do people believe in god?  (also, why do
people believe in Nebraska?)  Why ask why?  Does god mud?  Does satan
mosh?  What does the bible have to say about virtually coveting thy
neighbor's wife?  Personally, I think that the teachings of Marx were
much more informative : the ideals of an individual projected into a
society is subject to being fucked by the ideals of all individuals in
that society (how long did the USSR last?)  Don't worry about God,
God's doing great in retirement in Pago Pago.  Yeah, with Elvis. 

-- 
Drivvt Daermon N'a'shezbaernon (Drow)   /\ Utah Saints? You mean Mormons, right?
Menzoberranzan  Computer  Networking /\/' \ Live for CPU time, die for CPU time.
rau@ucsu.colorado.edu               /' \'' \ Where would I be without IBM? InSoc
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ n''''' \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.sex,rec.music.industrial
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:21:14 GMT

In article <0VL2TB2w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
>We live in a society that has institutionalized the master/slave 
>relationship. You are trained from birth to be submissive to bigger, 
>richer, and more powerful primates in the heirarchy, whose anuses you are 
>required to clean with your tongue. 

	As the same thing (i.e. dominance heirarchy) can be seen in a huge
	number of animal species (i.e. other primates, but even in things
	like chickens) I think there's only one good response to this--


	---It's genetic!!!

<hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah>

<For the humor impaired, flames to alt.go.fuck.yourself...>



-- 
 Robert Stephen Rodgers  ||  rsrodger@wam.umd.edu  || IRC: Yamanari
 --------NeXTmail-preferred!!--------------------------------------
 Snout: O Bottom, thou art chang'd!  What do I see on thee?          
 Bottom: What do you see?  You see an ass-head of your own, do you?  
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: mike@highlite.uucp (Mike Wiik)
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industrial Culture?
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:52:36 GMT

phutter@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu (PATRICK HUTTER) writes:

>There is 
>no such thing as male and female emotions: they are all the same. The only 
>difference between male and female (aside of the obvious physical ones) is 
>that women have the strength to give birth, something I, as a male, know men 
>can not.

Oh, what total BS (belief system:)

You're probably a believer in free will, too...

Men & women are different. Way different. Whether one sex is 
emotionally "better" than another is a source of arguments and
discrimination. The interplay between them is the interesting
thing...

	-Mike

-- 
   | o==== . : ... :  :  .     |Mail Me Neat Stuff->POB 3703 Arlington VA 22203
 --@-- . o o o ... O -O- o o : |No disclaimers needed: I actually pay for this.
   |           ... :  :        |-----------------------------------------------
mEssAGE fRoM sPAcE ARt stUdiOs |Man:TheMissingLinkBetweenApes&HigherIntelligence
From: sehst3@cislabs.pitt.edu (Sean Horner)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:46:53 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Don't give me your savior. -- Temple of the Dog

... and you stare at me in your Jesus Christ Pose.  --Soundgarden

Mine are the eyes of god. --Corrosion of Conformity

Bow to Leper Messiah.  --Metallica

	Just thought I'd list some lyrical frags from artists who compose the
"devil's" music.  (My musical forte centers around the metal genre, instead
of punk and industrial.)
	
	What's that noise I hear?
	A call to arms?

	Come join the Crusade and slaughter in the name of Christ.  After
we send the infidels to hell, we shall revel in blood while we sing "Onward
Christian Soldiers."

	Pardon me for insanity.  Faith just does not compute.

	
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:5565 alt.industrial:635 alt.sex:35444 alt.sex.bondage:21418