HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert)
Subject: Could someone talk to me about Novell (NOVL-OTC)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:16:51 GMT

Hi gang,

As many have noticed, Novell's stocked got whacked bad last week after 
reporting `disappointing' earnings that were lower than street expects
by 0.01/share.  I've made some decent pin money by trading short-term
on these kinds of plays, buying within 1 week or so after the loss,
holding for  ~1 month or so until the price creeps back up to its previous
level.  Yeah, I know, NOVL is still expensive, but I'm on about a 75% win
streak over the past 2 years with this strategy....

This time I've got some bad vibes, however, because of all the chatter I hear
about Microsoft's future domination of all PC networking systems (things that
will make NOVL's products obsolete, etc.).  I have to confess that I don't
know as much about this as I should.  Does anyone on misc.invest have any 
comments on NOVL's future viability?  I'm always interested in any opinion.


Matt Bohnert                 | Ron : That's certainly an impressive desk,  
Building 500, Room 501B      |		Mr. Speaker.
Stanford University          | Tip : Why thank you, Mr. President. It was
Stanford, CA    94035        |		used by Grover Cleveland.
415.723.4490                 | Ron : Really? He was a great pitcher. I played
bohnert@leland.stanford.edu  |      	him in a movie once.
			     | Tip : No sir, you're thinking of Grover C.
			     |		Alexander.  I was referring to
			     |		the former President.  --- Jan, 1981
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: tax loss selling
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:04:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <Ef_UjDO00WBKM1fLd3@andrew.cmu.edu> jb6k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joel Bloch) writes:
>When is the date for closing out a short position and reporting it on
>this year's income tax?

Dec. 23 is the last day to buy-in to close a short position in a
stock at gain or loss (regualr way trade.)

Dec. 30 is last day to buy-in to close a short position in a listed
option at a gain or loss.

Dec. 31 is last day to sell long positions in stock or listed
options as  a loss.

Dec. 31 is last day to sell long position in stock or listed
options at a gain.

-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Xref: sparky misc.invest:15168 misc.consumers:20941 misc.entrepreneurs:3675 soc.college:5763 soc.college.grad:2219
From: mel@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Melissa Trevino)
Newsgroups: misc.invest,misc.consumers,misc.entrepreneurs,soc.college,soc.college.grad
Subject: Re: Lawyer for refinancing?
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:22:40 GMT
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX



MP Deignan writes: "What makes a refinancing any different than any regular 
closing?  Nothing"

Well.....not quite true.  The documentation required, at least in the state
of Texas differs slightly for refis and purchases.  Plus, some of the processing
of the loan differs for the two processes.  


BTW....why is this being cross posted to soc. college?  Just curious. :)

Melissa Trevino
From: hacker@access.digex.com (Dark Hacker)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Day Orders or Until Cancelled
Date: 21 Dec 1992 06:10:39 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <BzBLqz.A0M@boi.hp.com> kmcintyr@boi.hp.com (Kevin McIntyre) writes:
>
>I was wondering what the advantages are (if any) of placing
>a Day Order vs. Until Cancelled.  If you know you want a
>stock at a certain price (maximum) if you place the same
>buy order every day at the same price do you effectively get
>"bumped" from queue?  That is, if there are X investors tring
>to get stock A for $Y, only so many orders can be filled at
>a time.

Your broker's agreement should detail the algorithm they use to
determine this.  There are priorities for various types of orders.

- Hacker
-- 
Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation
hacker@black-silicon.mclean.va.us

"Life itself is... COMPUTATION!"
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: holmes@mrx.webo.dg.com (Chris Holmes)
Subject: Re: Why is Borland downgraded?
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 21:04:33 GMT
Reply-To: holmes@mrx.webo.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westborough, MA

In article <2B263DA1.8339@ics.uci.edu>, nyang@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Nick Yang)
writes:
|> I heard on CNBC today that Borland is downgraded by several brokage firms,
|> but
|> they didn't say why.  Can anyone tell me why?  I bought some BORL at 25.  I
|> have been nervous, but haven't been worried since I believe Borland products
|> are way superior than Microsoft's.  But now, should I start worrying?
|> Thank you very much for any info.

They announced a work force reduction of 15% or 350 people, incurring a 
$35 mil restructuring charge this quarter.  Their reason?  "...a looming
price war in the software industry."


-- 
-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------
Christopher Holmes           | Deliberate misuse by concentrating and inhaling
Terminals Development Group  | fumes may be harmful or fatal.  Some settling
Data General Corporation     | of contents may have occurred during shipping.  
Westboro, MA                 | Internet: holmes@mrx.webo.dg.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: risk of mutual fund close down
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:21:41 GMT

In article <1gnludINN93m@CASPER.NA.CS.YALE.EDU> chang-mark-yan-ming@cs.yale.edu (Mark Yan-Ming Chang) writes:
>
>It is good to buy low. But for mutual funds, is there a danger that a fund
>may give up, if the price droped too much? A fund manager takes a percentage of
>the whole fund value as his fee. So the low price is not good for the manager.
>But if the fund liquidates at a very low price, it would be really bad for 
>the investers.
>
>Are there examples of fund close down due to low price?

Speaking of price, by which I assume you mean net asset value,
can one infer anything at all from the "price" of a mutual
fund?
  
For example Kaufmann's NAV is 2.79, JANUS Enterprise Fund's
NAV is 18.79. But Kaufmann started at 1.0 a couple of years
ago and the Enterprise fund started at 15.0 a couple of months
ago. How do they choose these values? Do they mean anything?
(Except comparing a funds present level to it's recent levels?)
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: "Don't Become Fixated on Mutual Funds" - Peter Lynch
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:50:24 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <Byyp8v.LGL@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
>cs101a64@dcl-nxt06.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>
>>> Right. For instance Glaxo started the year at 35 and now trades at 24.
>>> White hot.
>>OK, so Glaxo may be red-hot instead of white-hot.  But what is its price  
>>to book value ratio?  One-third?  One-half?  Or is 10 a closer estimate?
>
>Ok, here's a question for you folks.
>
>We have two research companies. One company has 5 vax 750's,
>bought at a million dollars a shot for a total
>cost of 5 million. The other company has 5 Sparcstations, 
>bought for a total of $50,000.
>
>The first company has Devry graduates, The second has
>Ph.D's from MIT, Stanford, CMU, and Illinois (an unashamed  plug 
>for my school :).
>
>Which company has the large book value? Which company
>should sell at a higher price in the market?
>
>-Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu

If it weren't for those big-headed PhD's, the second company would
be the stronger by far.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mrand@sdf.lonestar.org (Marc Randolph)
Subject: Stock Picking Contest
Keywords: stock contest
Organization: sdf Unix, Dallas
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:57:34 GMT

In article <boutilie.723791062@peach3> boutilie@rtsg.mot.com (Eric Boutilier) writes:
>O.K., just for fun, here are my picks:
>
>Amgen 
>Coca-Cola
>Glaxo
>Microsoft
>Novell
>Pfizer
>Telefonos de Mexico
>Walmart
>
>I'm a Mutual Fund investor who has never had the nerve to
>pick my own individual stocks. Would I improve my portfolio
>by buying these stocks and holding them for several years?

    Yes, you probably would.  Even if the market does questionable things,
I think most of the stocks you've picked would gain a decent amount in the
next two to four years.

    Is their any type of stock picking contest on the net?  Not for prizes
or money... just for fun.  Would someone be interested in putting one
together? Just off the top of my head, here are some possible guidelines:

    - Each person in the contest starts with a set amount (maybe $50,000)

    - Each person keeps track of their own portfolio (this is only a game,
	 right?  There is no need to have someone enforcing the rules).
	 They should record the date, price, and number of shares purchased
	 for each issue.  There shouldn't be a requirement on being fully
         invested.  If someone wants to hold some cash, go for it.

    - Every month or every quarter (which should it be?), everyone sends
	 a list of their holdings (date/price/number of shares for
	 each issue) to the coordinator.  The subject line could have your
	 portfolio amount so that it would be easy for the coordinator to
	 rank and print the top ten stock pickers.

    - Should we allow shorts, futures, and options?  I would rather not.
	 It seems like it would be too complicated for our game...
	 But if there are enough people that do want them, I'll go along.

    - Should we allow mutual funds?  I don't know.

    Anyone have the time and will to put together a complete list of
guidelines and [maybe someone else?] to receive the holdings listings
people mail in?  Unfortunately, I don't have the time needed to run the
thing.  I think it would be alot of fun though.
---
 Marc Randolph     mrand@sdf.lonestar.org
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jli@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Jin Li)
Subject: Re: S&P index options ?
Originator: root@helios.physics
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:21:30 GMT


>Does anyone out there know if there's a significant difference between the
>options on the S&P 5000 and the S&P 100?

>I'm thinking about buying some puts on a broad stock market index to hedge
>against a "correction", and it seems the most heavily traded options are all
>S&P 100.  But the most widely quoted index, and the one I've been watching
>for years, is the S&P 500.  For options, does it really matter which one
>you hold?

>russg

It does matter which one you hold in the purpose of hedging. S&P 500 option
is Europen, which means that you can only exercise the option at the    
exercise(or expiration) date.  S&P 100 option is American which allows you to 
exercise the option at any date before the expiration date.   Index options
usually are used by portfolio managers to limit their downside risk. 
Flexibility is a very important factor to be considered. 

Ted Liu, MBA
From: ci483@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Babu Narasimhan)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: ESOP - Can they really do this????
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:14:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


My employer had a standard vanilla type of Employee Stock
Option Plan for purchasing the Company stock. This plan
was implemented by Quarters (Calender) and any employee
could laydown upto x% of their pay to buy  the stock which
was discounted 15% off of the market value. The market value
was determined by the lesser of the 5-day average between
the beginning and end of quarter. Pretty Standard stuff
so far.....except they threw in a wrench in the works
recently.

They now require you to hold on to the stock for a year before
it can be sold and this is done to "promote long term interest
in the company" and they add "it does not require shareholder
approval". I thought that ESOP was implemented not for any
altruistic motives, but for business (read tax) reasons. So
is something changing in the tax code for 93 to make this
not so beneficial for corporations?. Secondly, can they
really implement a rule like this.

Any and all comments are welcome, particularly from experts
on the validity of such restrictions.

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bucknerb@bnr.ca (Brent Buckner)
Subject: Re: "Market efficiency" 
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:46:22 GMT

In article <BzH6tv.5K3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs101a64@eng-nxt11.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>When I looked for stocks to buy for the  
>AT&T Investment Challenge, I found bargain stocks to be quite scarce, and  
>I had to bend my criteria in order to find 10 stocks.  Had I played this  
>stock market game in 1974 or 1982, I would have found hundreds of stocks  
>meeting my criteria.

The edition of "The Intelligent Investor" of the early seventies
(1972?) contains comments from Graham that he was unable to
find stocks worth owning given the bond yields of the day.

I suspect he'd be in a similar position today.

Gee, maybe the market has corrected the inefficiency of under-pricing
value stocks.  The alternative is that everything is overheated.
I'm betting more heavily on the latter than the former.

-- 
at Bell-Northern Research
voice:        (613) 765-2739
Canada Post:  P.O. Box 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7
I do not claim that BNR holds these views.  
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: misc
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:50:01

In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:

   Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower his/her
   commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price) on a
   house.

There are two very different issues here.  One is whether commissions
are negotiable.  Several people on the net have given evidence that
they are.  The other is the relationship between selling and asking
price.  Sales at or above asking price are quite rare in the current
market around here, that is, almost all sales are below asking price.
In fact, last year, I ran the statistics on houses comparable to mine,
and selling price was 0-25% below asking, with the mean and median at
about 17%.  Of course, at that point the market was still falling.

   For example, let's say you had a house listed at 100K, your realtor
   found someone who made an offer of 95K.  The realtor suggests you
   take the offer. You say OK, but since I am losing 5 K on the deal

In what sense are you "losing" 5k on the deal?  If you'd listed the
house at 200k, you'd be "losing" 105k on the deal.  If you'd listed it
at 90k, you'd be "gaining" 5k on the deal.  If you believe that you
can sell it for more, you can always wait.

But, as you say:

   In my experience with real-estate I have found that EVERYTHING is
   negotiable.

So, you can certainly propose to the agent to accept the offer if s/he
throws in part of his/her commission, and otherwise wait for a better
offer, with that or another agent....

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: giand@opencon.com (Deepak S. Gianchandani)
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Followup-To: misc.invest.real-estate
Organization: OpenCon Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:39:34 GMT

In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM> drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
>Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
>his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
>on a house.
>
>For example, let's say you had a house listed at 100K, your
>realtor found someone who made an offer of 95K.
>The realtor suggests you take the offer. You say OK, but
>since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
>you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
>made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
>
>I'll bet quite a few realtors whould do it. Especially if the
>listing was about to expire.
>
>I have never done this (only because I have never sold a house
>through a realtor) so I have no data points. I have done it as
>a buyer though (discussed in an earlier article).
>
>In my experience with real-estate I have found that EVERYTHING is
>negotiable.
>
>-- Dave Burritt


	The closet one is when I was buying the house, they were
	asking 154,500. I offered 150,000 (this was 5 years ago, when
	the market was very stron in New Jersey).  I didn't want to up
	any higher, so I said to the real estate person to pitch in
	some commission of hers, she said $500.00 so I agreed to give
	the other $500.  The owner accepted and I bought the house.

-- 
____________________   .    .   __         .       | Deepak S. Gianchandani
\___________________|) .____.--"--"---._____       | E-mail:giand@opencon.com
     .      ||       /_____/  NCC_1701  __/ .  . . |   To Boldly Go Where 
.       .   ||      /--/--._________.----/   .     | No One Has Gone BEFORE
From: drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:09:22 GMT
Distribution: misc

in article <1992Dec15.170517.7813@pbhyb.PacBell.COM>, ajcueva@pbhyb.PacBell.COM (Al Cuevas) says:
> 
> In article <22850@drutx.ATT.COM>, drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD) writes:
>> Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
>> his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
>> on a house.
>> 
>> since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
>> you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
>> made the offer is not working with a different realtor.
>> 
> "SEEMS ONLY FAIR????"  
> 
> Tell us DAVE... Does your employer ask you to give up 50% of your
> salary when they miss their estimated income by 5%???
> 
If the realtor only sells one house a year he/she is not much of a 
realtor. If he/she sells 100 houses per year then losing 3.5% on
one of them is NOT 50% of his/hers yearly income.

And yes, since part of my salary is at risk, if my employer does
not meet its objectives I do give up some salary (obviously not
50%). And the company does NOT ASK me, it just does it. The realtor can
always say no to the proposition.

Besides you did not answer the question. I was asking if anyone has
ever tried this. I will take your resonse as a no.

> Al Cuevas
> Pac Bell
> 510-823-1498

My goodness there are a lot of sensitive people in this group.
Calm down, it's only a newsgroup.

Have a nice day.
-- Dave Burritt
From: drb@druhi.ATT.COM (BurrittD)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Negotiating a lower commission after an offer
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:13:08 GMT
Distribution: misc

Has anyone out there ever tried to get a realtor to lower
his/her commision after an offer was submitted (below asking price)
on a house.

For example, let's say you had a house listed at 100K, your
realtor found someone who made an offer of 95K.
The realtor suggests you take the offer. You say OK, but
since I am losing 5 K on the deal it seems only fair that
you only get 3.5% instead of 7%. This assumes the person who
made the offer is not working with a different realtor.

I'll bet quite a few realtors whould do it. Especially if the
listing was about to expire.

I have never done this (only because I have never sold a house
through a realtor) so I have no data points. I have done it as
a buyer though (discussed in an earlier article).

In my experience with real-estate I have found that EVERYTHING is
negotiable.

-- Dave Burritt
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: larry@boris.webo.dg.com (Larry Rogers)
Subject: Re: REALTORS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY AND MORE
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:39:17
Organization: Data General, Westboro, Mass.


Actually, I feel Dave is quite right on with the points he was making.
My experiences with realtors have left me with the following
impressions. I have only dealt with half a dozen and realize that is
not a good overall representation.  However, it was amazing to me how
alike they all were.

1. They primarily represent themselves, not the seller or buyer, and
   are most interested in what they can sell fast and at the best
   commission.

2. They make alot of promises they cannot keep.  For example, I had
   one woman tell me how for the amount I wanted to spend, she could
   find me my dream house.  After she showed me two dumps, I made a
   list of what I was looking for in writing.  Then, she tells me that
   there is no way I can afford that kind of house for what I am
   willing to spend.  So I built it for less.  Several other
   experiences with independent realtors telling me properties
   requiring septic had town sewer and making other false claims tells
   me that most are ill-informed or will say anything to make the
   sale.

3. They remind me alot of "ambulance chaser" lawyers.  Wanting to
   reach a deal (settlement) as fast as possible with neither the
   interest of the seller nor the buyer in mind.

4. They are salesmen, pure and simple.


Basically, I would probably use a realtor to sell my house because
they would save me time, and that is more important to me than the
money.  But I would never trust them as far as I could throw them.

Cheers, Larry

--
    @@               Larry Rogers               *
   @@@               Larry_Rogers@dg.com        *   Big Brother
   @@@ &&&           larry@boris.webo.dg.com    *   is Watching
    @@ &&            Data General  508-870-8441 * 

The opinions contained herein are my own, and do not reflect the
opinions of Data General or anyone else, but they should.

"Sometimes we are the windshield, sometimes we are the bug"
   Dire Straits
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Negotiating a lower commission after an
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:34:11 GMT
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <1gvlniINNqv1@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
=It's a market, like any other. Given the fact the sellers *often* sell for
=less than even realtors predict, I see no problem the a seller asking for
=a concession from the broker. I wouldn't call it childish, or playing games.
=It's strictly business. If the broker doesn't want to engage, they can walk
=away.

"Predict?" It's the seller who sets the selling price, often much higher
than the RE would like.

=Now when we negotiating on house prices becomes non-existant, I'll be the first
=to defend brokers, but when offers of 10-20 percent lower than broker-recommended
=become commonplace, they can and should share the loss.

Again, you're assuming that the RE sets the asking price. Even if that
were true, every negotiation involves the potential buyer offering a
lower price than the one asked. How much lower is a function of the
market (as you said).