HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pvf@alantec.com (Paul Fries)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: the best
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:42:09 GMT

Last night, I ( pvf@alantec.com (Paul Fries) ) wrote:

>Jumping through clouds IS illegal, i.e. the FARs prohibit it.
>Actually, even being too near the clouds is illegal.  To maintain VFR
>below 10,000 feet, you need 2000 feet horizontal clearance.  Above
>10,000 feet, you need a mile.

After posting, on the way home from work, I realized that I
had made a simplification that is not necessarily true in
all cases.

The cloud clearance rule is 1000' above, 500' below, 2000'
horizontal in CONTROLLED airspace.  In UNCONTROLLED
airspace, the rule is clear of clouds.

More completely, in CONTROLLED airspace, you need 3 miles
visibility, plus the cloud clearance.  In UNCONTROLLED
airspace, you need 1 mile visibility, clear of clouds.

Around here ( the San Francisco Bay area ) virtually
everything is controlled airspace, thus my over
simplification, for which I apologize.

(Going further, one might ask, "what is controlled
airspace?" This is sometimes difficult to answer without an
aviation chart.  CONTROLLED AIRSPACE does not mean that
someone (i.e.  ATC) is controlling all flight, but that
flight could be ATC controlled (again, this is a
simplification).  But I digress...)

Somebody said that is was legal if you could see the
airport when you leave the aircraft.  This is also a
simplification.  You still need the 1 or 3 miles visibility
(as appropriate for the airspace in which you are
operating) to remain VFR.

But again, this is getting away from the point.

While safety is most assuredly part of the issue, it is not
always the major issue.

The big issue is that there ARE rules, and there ARE people
out there who CAN and WILL stop us if we break the rules.
When one of us break the rules, we may be jeopardizing the
"right" to skydive for ourselves and others.

I suggest that this is not a good tradeoff.

DOOR!

Paul Fries
pvf@alantec.com
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: LORAN System for Spotting
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:24:40 GMT

Reply-to: Paul.Stansberry@p0.f22.n233.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Stansberry)
Fido-To: romulus!@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu:ma

Monday August 24 1992, romulus!@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu:mark@virt writes to Skydive:

 rcue> I think that if it comes down to that, using a GPS for skydiving
 rcue> activities is gonna be the least of my worries.

Just what IS a GPS?


--- GoldED 2.40
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: The Workshop BBS (217-352-6168) - <V32b/HST> (FidoNet 1:233/22)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-- Check Source BBS, (217) 244-6954, HST, V.32, V.42bis ---
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Turbine Caribou has crashed
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 13:49:09 GMT

The Jumpin Dude (tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu) wrote:
: In article <23597@alice.att.com> kroon@alice.att.com (Peter Kroon) writes:
: >Perry the owner of New Cal aviation and one of his pilots died
: >in an crash of one of their Caribous.
: >This was the Caribou that has been equipped with turbine engines.
: >Apparently it flipped on its back during take-off, and crashed.
: 
: any clue as to the cause of the flip?? did it flip nose up??

Ditto.  What happened?

: >Beside the loss of these lives, and will probably lead to the loss
: >of Caribous to the sport of skydiving. Directly affected will be
: >the Herd boogie (they are securing other planes), and the world
: >record attempt.
: 
: oh now how can one crash (of an apparently extensively modified aircraft)
: result in the exclusion of all similar aircraft from the skydive  world?

What's the report on this?  I'm going to the herd next weekend.
Are you saying because of this crash, they're gonna pull the bou's
out of the herd?
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Re: 11-Cell Canopy Question
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 04:50:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.033416.15797@eng.ufl.edu>
  esj@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson) writes:
[...about the AR-11 he demoed...]
>I was impressed. If the thing hadn't blown up I would have been REALLY 
>impressed. The guy showed me a patch on the right side where the same thing 
>had happened ( the canopy had a bottem skin rip between the right end cell 
>and next on opening). 
>
>I look forward to putting a ar11 through the paces, once they stop blowing up
>on opening. ;-) Seemed like it could be faster and have a better glide ratio
>then a Nova. (which is undoubtly (IMnsHO) the slickest canopy around right now)

Apart from the high price, this does sound like an awful nice canopy.  But
your story about it blowing up not once but twice during the demo process
kind of puts me off.  *Someday*, (maybe not soon), I want to strap a board
on my feet and go for it.  That pretty much means dumping while standing
up.  Of the various ZP canopies on the market, does anyone have an idea
which ones might best be packable for super-snivelly openings?  Or which
ones would best take being dumped at 150 mph without blowing up?  For that
matter, does anyone know what Patrick deG jumps?  Some Blue Track
masterpiece which isn't available short of import?

How about the Jonathon, guys?  Or the Conquest?  Any experience with em?

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:06:22 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

In article <59983@mimsy.umd.edu> jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:

>Turns out, the sequence of events leading to the first AFF level 1 fatality 
>(occured last month) began when the student mistakenly pulled his 
>cutaway handle instead of his ripcord.  (The student landed under a spinning
>reserve and later died of the injuries sustained.)

Any clues as to the cause of the reserve malfunction?


-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Bruises and legstraps
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:22:29 GMT
Organization: Ohio University School of Art. Athens

Re: the jumper getting bruises on their thighs. Try hiking the rig
as high on your back as you can and adjust the laterals before tightening
the leg straps. The container might be riding up on you at opening and
pulling the leg straps around.


-- 
*********************************************
*    bob church                             *
*    bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu           *
*    D-8195 NFS #27                         *
From:  (wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: abbreviations 2
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:06:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.132144.24431@ncar.ucar.edu>, nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
> 
> 
>    The following abbreviations/terms have come up in a few
>    recent threads.  I checked the FAQ and didn't see them
>    defined.  Can someone help me out on the meainings?

        I'll add some (ie. what I remember):
TO ANYONE: Add what you know, lets help these folks

> 
>    (I guessed on a few...correct me if I am wrong)
> 


Glossary of Terms for Skydivers:

   	-   ATC                Air Traffic Control
> 	-   BSR                 Basic Safty Regulations  (USPS's rules/ suggestions for it's members)
> 	-   CTAF
         FAA                Federal Aviation Admin.
> 	-   FAR                Federal Aviation Regulations.
> 	-   GA                   General Aviation
>                                           Now if GA is really genaral aviation is there another
 	                                            abbreviation for commercial aviation or military 
 	                                             aviation ?
> 	-   IFR                    Instrument Flight Regulations (as defined by FAR's)
         USPA                United States Parachuting Assoc. - skydiving's self regulating org.
> 	-   VFR                   Visual Flight Regulations
         Wuffo                 non-skydiver, from the ? "Wuffo you jump out-da plane?"

> 	-   The difference between a throw-away pilot-chute and a
> 	    pull-out pilot chute.

> 			Eddie Roberts 
           Jim  A-12602
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service))
Subject: Why is 25-100 jumps a dangerous transition time ??
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:29:09 GMT

 2 recent post have included a line or two saying that jumps
 25-100 are the most dangerous ones.  This concerns me a lot since I 
 plan on having completed 20 jumps by the end of September. Why is this a
 dangerous period of time and what can I do to avoid these
 problems/dangers ?

	Thanks 
		Eddie

P.S.  Please don't tell me to read the Sept. issue of Parachutist....
      I've been trying to join USPA since early July without success.... 
      I've called several times and although the people have been real 
      pleasant, I am still waiting :-(

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Boogie Ad
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:09:16 GMT

>
>(Any hints on getting a stand up right out of the plane door?  I tried it
>today, and really didn't hit it at all.  I think went head down a bit and
>just ended up going belly stable.)
>
 Hi Dan, 
Well, I did one this weekend, by accident! we were jumping a porter. The problem
was, I am a tall guy, as you remember (well, not as  tall as YOU, but . . .).
anyway, the door on the porter is all of about 3 feet tall, with the wing above
it. So, I was veryu dearched in the door. We had a slow cut. I let go and sank
straight down, feet first, for about 500 ft. I was watching two jumpers below me,
who looked like a tandem pair, back to back. They fell ontop one another and
were falling together. Watching a formation between your feet is really weird. 

Anyhow, maybe what I'm trying to say here is if you leave the plane verticle,
somewhat dearched, it might work. it was weird being in a SUBTERMINAL standup.
seemed easier than a terminal standup (I still can't do that too well- guess
I should start wearing gloves!). 
It sorta felt like I was leaping off a picnic table (13k off the ground!) Try 
a balloon jump!

Oh, ps, I didn't turn into the relative wind on exit, either. just had it 
blowing at my side. 

-Eric
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Dumpster accident
From: <DJY100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:59:22 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

Hey King,  very funny

-djy
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Squelch That Herd Boogie Speculation
Keywords: Caribous - YES;  Twin Otters - YES
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:20:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

For all you folks who aren't already on the way to
Pennsylvania, I was at the United Parachute Club,
Home of the Herd, today.  There will be, confirmed, two
Caribous at the boogie.  There will also be two
Twin Otters, the Otters arriving approximately
9 AM tomorrow (Thursday) morning.

The Drop Zone looks great, is quite prepared, and all
is in readiness.

And if anybody cares, I'll be helping out as a loader on
Friday afternoon (they apparently needed loaders on
Friday afternoon more than T-shirt saleshumans).  I
think I'm still slated to sell T-shirts Saturday, but
I'm ready to do whatever.  Don't know about you, but
I'm also exceptionally well-prepared to have a great
time Saturday night.

Dean Kaflowitz
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tupper@voskhod.mit.edu (Tupper Hyde)
Subject: rig for sale
Reply-To: tupper@voskhod.mit.edu (Tupper Hyde)
Organization: M.I.T.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:39:56 GMT

Container:  Vector V5, grey/black/maroon, ok condition
Main:           Raider (9 cell, 220 sq.ft.), rainbow bottom/white top,
250 jumps
Reserve:     Raven2, black/gold, 0 jumps
AAD:            FXC1200

Excellent rig for new or experienced jumper.

              $ 2,000  for complete rig, or b.o. for separate items.

May be test jumped by serious possible buyers.
 
   Tupper Hyde, tupper@sputnik.mit.edu
                           (w) 617-253-4923
                           (h) 617-935-7631
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM (Ben Daniels)
Subject: Re: Tail exits
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:08:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.024117.17078@tamsun.tamu.edu> lusty@lusty.tamu.edu (Lusty Wench) writes:

>Here's a fun tailgate exit I organized out of a Skyvan on my 28th jump :)
>
>We were the last group out of the plane.  We built a 5-way star kind of
>compressed into a row of 3 people with their backs to the door and the
>other 2 facing the door.  Everybody took grips and we kind of knelt as
>flat as we could on the floor of the plane.  The pilot then went into
>a dive, floating us out the tailgate and into the slipstream, where we
>promptly blew all over the sky!  :)  It was quite fun.  We did have a
>camerman to record the event.  On the video, we "fell" *up* as we left
>the plane :).
>
>This was a really fun exit and I would recommend it highly to anyone
>who can persuade their pilot to do such a thing :)
>
>Lusty Wench

Aaaahhhhhhh ... Good idea! I wish I'd thought of that :-)

You know, I always thought that (up until 1981, at least, when I faded
from the scene) that the exit and break up had never really been
explored as maneuvers in their own right. Entertainment for example.

One time there was a drop zone that had been very creative for a
couple years and then turned serious as it became famous and some
serious team efforts started up. It was a DC3 drop zone. Here was
this wonderful big airplane to play around with and people started
making these killer mangle competition launches.

So we who doing *other things* came up with the  <<**Lounge Exit**>>.

We started with a basic standing up straight line exit, then each
person took a couple steps out of line so it would look like we
were just standing around back there. We practiced falling back in
line a few times (while nobody else was around) and then signed up
as the first load out. I gave the cut, looked back at them (which was
the signal to go) and stepped out. I didn't get to see anybody's
expression when we did that, but I hope it was good.

Another one we used was the "Everybody Goes Last" exit. You know
how much fun it is to run down the aisle and dive out the door and
people are always wanting to go last. So we would start the line up
with the first person 6 or 8 feet back from the door so that everybody
got to run down the aisle and dive out the door. It also gave us
enough separation that people got to dive a little bit.

Skratch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email:  bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM 
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn)
Subject: you aren't going to believe this...
Reply-To: sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:39:18 GMT

If I had not seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it either, but  
recently we had a strange thing happen to a 1st jump student at the club.   
We were trying to give him radio commands but he wouldn't respond, and  
wouldn't respond, etc.  Finally, at about 300 - 500 ft he started  
responding.  Needless to say he landed WAY out.  

Well someone went and picked him up.  When we examined the rig, the  
reserve steering toggles were out of the reserve container.  It turns out  
that this guy saw the reserve toggles, DUG THEM OUT, and tried using them  
to steer his main canopy!  It wasn't until about 300 - 500 ft that he  
realized that there were much more accessable steering toggles right above  
his head!

Aren't students amazing?

Blue Skies,
- sparkie
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Jerry's Article
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:40:54 GMT

Reply-to: Paul.Stansberry@p0.f22.n233.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Stansberry)
Fido-To: romulus!zephyr.cair.du.edu!t

Tuesday September 01 1992, romulus!zephyr.cair.du.edu!tjreynol writes to Skydive:

 rcde> all you folks that are newcomers to the sport - seek out the September
 rcde> '92 issue of Parachutist. Jerry's article is a MUST READ. Jerry raises

I'm on my way to buy it now.  :-)  Seriously, thanks for the input.  I have
only 4 jumps, and have been told I am doing extremely well, but I will NOT let
that go to my head, as I am still aware of the dangers involved.  However, I
do not have a subscription to Parachutist (yet), and would not have known
about this article till now.

Many thanks.  <now lets hope it's good> <grin>



--- GoldED 2.40
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: The Workshop BBS (217-352-6168) - <V32b/HST> (FidoNet 1:233/22)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
-- Check Source BBS, (217) 244-6954, HST, V.32, V.42bis ---
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: the best
Keywords: illegal? sue me
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:31:20 GMT

>	I am just a tad concerned about this thread.   I know I am 
>	"just a lurker" and a pilot, but if I am 500 under a ceiling,
>	the last thing I expect is to have a skydiver pop out of the
>	cloud.   Its against reg.s and so I don't expect people to do it.
>	(foolish me...)

yeah, and "shit happens" too. I would NOT jump if there are clouds that 
low!!! Just last weekend, at Lodi, the problem was SMOKE from the
wildfires. Visibility sucked. 
>
>	I certainly don't mean to condem any single individual, but the
>	tone of this group seems to be one of dare devils seeing how
>	far they can break the rules and get away with it.

This is exactly the public perception that needs to be changed. 

>
>	Is that part of the nature of people that sky dive ???

Nah, just the cocky pilots that fly us to altitude  ;^)

>
>	Do I need to totally avoid DZ even on overcast days for fear 
>	of someone breaking reg.s and dropiing on top of me ??

Might not be a bad idea. In fact, why can't you just fly AROUND the
DZ, and everybody will be happier and safer. I promise I wont fly
my canopy on the approach to the active runways in return  :^)
From: fbm@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Farrell McKay)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Looking for pictures of formations
Keywords: RW, formations, scanners, pictures, GIFs, bananas
Date: 4 Sep 92 08:28:10 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

Ahem,

Is there anyone in this newsgroup who has digitized images of
the official 1992 random formations and block sequences?
You know... all those funny stamp-men in weird shapes called
things like Meeker, Crossbow, Optic, Donut, Crank etc.
Just about any image format would be ok (PBM, TGA, XBM, GIF, TIFF,
ZIFF, BIFF, SNIFF, ....).

If not, is there anyone in this group who has access to a digitizer
or scanner, and would be able to create such images from the
real thing?

Now that I think about this a bit more, this would be a nifty
thing to keep on the ftp archive site at skydive.eng.ufl.edu
It shouldn't take up too much space (Agg!  Don't say "space"!),
and it could serve as a sort of a reference source for those of us
who are more competitively inclined in RW.

Hmmmm .... thinking a bit more about this .... simple black and
white images would be a good way of sharing ideas about good
formations/jumps to do.  Or even to see what the shape of the
latest 225-way blob was like.  Or even .... sorry, just thinking
out loud here.

Blue skies,
Farrell.
--
      -m-------  Farrell McKay,                   fbm@ptcburp.oz.au
    ---mmm-----  Pyramid Technology Aust.,        ...!munnari!ptcburp.oz!fbm
  -----mmmmm---  Research Park, Bond University,  +61 75 950256
-------mmmmmmm-  Gold Coast, Qld 4229, AUSTRALIA  +61 75 722475 FAX
From: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Clouds?! (was Re: the best)
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:06:43 GMT
Reply-To: pat@moscom.UUCP (Product Assurance Testing)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY


     Hey all you divers who like to test jump canopies.  I have some
     questions and opinions that I would like some help with.

     I have been jumping the new NOVA canopy out at our DZ.  We got 
     2 170's and a 150 to demo for a few weeks.  I am 6'1" and weigh
     190 lbs.

     According to the size chart in Paragear, the 170 is the right size
     for me.  I would like to try the 190 though.  I put about 15 jumps
     on the 170 and 2 on the 150.


     Results
     =======


     1)  I got great surfs on the 170 and the forward speed and turns were
	 impressive.  The openings were nicer than the SABRES I've jumped.
	 I got nice flares at the end of my surf, but my dive buddies were
	 convinced that the landing were not as nice as the SABRE.

     2)  The 150 was obviously too small for me.  It came screaming in but
	 I did not get as nice of flare.

     3)  The other 170 that we got was a complete wreck.  It collapsed every
	 time you cranked on a toggle or got into the front risers.  Our DZ
	 owner sent it back to Glidepath and they said it was slightly out
	 of trim.  Yeah!!!  NOT!!!   That thing was downright dangerous.
	 I don't know if this is common, but I would like to think that
	 when you demo a canopy, you're jumping what you would get if you
	 buy one.   Glidepath told us that they had 3 people jump the canopy
	 and that it was not collapsing any more than normal.  Well!!!,
	 we jumped it with alot of different weights, and believe me, it was
	 collapsing.


     Bottom Line
     ===========

     I would really like some more feedback from anyone who has jumped a
     NOVA canopy.  I really liked the one 170 we had.  I still would like
     to try the 190 and compare, or should I just Give It Up!

     Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving