From: jamcdani@zia.. ("jennifer mc daniel")
Subject: Re: THE IMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION ON OUR SOCIETY
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 15:56:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.222937.9829@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve  
Franklin) writes:
> 
> Well, jennifer mc daniel wrote some nicely put points abou the status
> of the fetus. But Jen,

Yes, Ste?

> you argue that you doubt that all of teh aborted
> fetuses "fetii? fetice? fice? " would want to enter this world anyways,
> but that doesn't justify anything. Surely some of them do...
>    ALso Jen, 

Yes, Ste?

> you write that 
> "  Until you can ask a fetus whether it wants to be born, we cannot 
> afford to force it to be born possibly against its wishes and definitely  
> against those of the woman (whose choices we can know)."
> but since we cannot ask it, why not give it... oh, about 9 months
> to think about it... Maybe even a couple of years. THEN, after it's had
> time to think over things, let the CHIL decide. 

So, instead of letting a woman choose abortion, you would rather let a
2-year-old child choose to commit suicide. I'm sure that's not what you're  
getting at, but it's a logical consequent of letting the child retain its  
right to _not_ exist, but only after a couple of years to think about it.  
Are you sure that's a more humane option?

> Heh - not so easy once it's already out in the real world. No way - it's  
> much easier to silence a fetus. You say it isnt' human? I say it will 
> be. You say that potential isn't enough? 

I never said that it wasn't human, and I never said that potential wasn't  
enough. In fact, that's why I probably would not have an abortion myself;
I do believe in its potential. I just have reason to believe that the vast  
majority of babies would not want me for a mother. :) 

> I say prove it doesn't already have a soul. You say you
> don't believe in God and souls? 

I'm an agnostic; if there _are_ such supernatural entities, then I'm not  
too proud to admit they are obviously beyond my mortal human faculties.  
But if God is omniscient (sp?), meaning He knows whether a fetus would be  
aborted, why would He ensoul one that will? 

> I say prove to me that society wouldn't be exceptionally better off 
> socially and economically if we didn't abort the fetus. 

I can't prove that one way or the other. But if the fetus itself does not  
want to exist, then it is better off not existing. 

> You say the woman's attitude is more important? I say that
> a woman's emotional status is important, but a fetus's right to life
> is more important. You say that is my opinion and I have no right to
> enforce it on others? 

I never said the woman's attitude is more important; it simply is able to  
be known. As for the latter question, EXACTLY.

> Well, I wouldn't stand by if I saw you getting beaten-up or killed
> would I? 

According to several social psychologists, the majority of people _would_
stand by (remember Kitty Genovese?). It's not a good thing, by any means,  
but there is evidence that it's part of human nature.

> No way, nor will I watch these children
> and gifts of God destroyed at the hands of salination, suction, pills,
> slicers and dicers, or any of the above. You call that civilized?
>    steve
> --

Instead, you'd rather watch the gifts of God destroy themselves after "a  
couple of years to think about it." Is that _more_ civilized?
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jenni McDaniel, Indiana University, Department of Psychology
"All we ever look for: a god...a drug...a great big hug." -KaTe Bush
 Big ol' IU taking the opinions of one undergrad?!? Yeah, right....
Newsgroups: talk.abortion