HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp)
Subject: ISLAMCI ARKADASLARDAN UFAK BIR ISTEK
Organization: University of Dakota, School of Engineering
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:21:43 GMT


Islamci arkadaslara ufak bir notum olacak:

  Sizin yapmadiginiz seyi yapip, hadis kitaplarina bakiyorum. Meraklanmayin 
  tum kanitlari elinize verecegim. Mesela pazartesi gonderecegim hadis'i, 
  yaklasik 2 hafta once birisi soylemisti. Diger kanitlari da topladiktan 
  sonra, yayinliyorum. Pazartesi gunu, size sadaka meselesini de anlatacagim. 
  Sabirli olun. Allah baba sabirsiz insanlari sevmez, bilgilerinize sunarim.

  Mal bulmus magribi gibi davranmayin. Sabreden dervis muradina ermis.
  Siz de sabirli olun. Mesela su anda, topladigim hadislerle ve
  tercumelerle, tefsirlerden alintilarla yazmaya basladigim yazilar
  soyle:

   1. Peygamber efendimizin Sadaka almasi (update). Nesh olayi,
      tefsirlerden aciklamalar ve ayetler'in inis amaci olarak
      bildirilen olaylardaki sacmaliklar.
   2. Peygamber efendimiz Hz. Muhammed (SAV)'a Mekkelilerce
      peygamberliginden vazgecmesi icin teklif edilen KRALLIK,
      SERVET ve KIZLAR. Tecrid'den naklen yayin.
   3. Peygamber'imiz efendimizin, buyuk bir merhamet ornegi gostererek
      100 kolesinden 60 tanesini azad etmesi. Buhari'nin E's Sahih'inden
      naklen.

 Sevgili Islamci arkadaslar, bir tek konuya takilip kalmayin. Bakin
 bir suru ayet yayinladim. Yayinladigim 30 yazidan ancak, 1 tanesinde
 bir sey buldugunuzu zannettiniz. Digerlerine de, goz atin. Size
 buyuk bir acik kalplilikle, hodri meydan diyorum. Hatalarimi bulun,
 gosterin. Yoksa, imamlarin dedigi gibi, ``aman Kuran'a bakmayin, ben 
 size anlatirim'' demiyorum. Siz de bana, kanitlar gosterin. Yoksa,
 duydugunuz zirvalari bana anlatmayin. Sorularima, sorularla karsilik 
 vermeyin. Bu sizin, sorularima cevabinizin olmadigini gosterir. Sonra, 
 bu kadar insanin ortasinda rezil falan olursunuz.

 SIMDI SIZE DIYORUM KI, BANA *ONA* KELIMESIYLE ILGILI KANIT GETIRIN.
 LAF SALATASI YAPMAYIN. MESELA BANA GETIREBILECEGINIZ KANITLAR SUNLAR 
 OLABILIR:

     1. Arapca cevirisi
     2. Gelis amaci ve cevirisiyle olan uyumu. Mumkunse su iki-uc tefsire
        bakmanizi tavsiye ederim. Bakalim, birbirleriyle uyusuyor mu? :->

 Bunlari yapin, oyle konusalim. Ozellikle, ayetlerin gelis amacini bana
 yazin. Bunu gercekten cok istiyorum. Bakalim ayetler neden gelmis? 
 Laf salatasiyla, ``ben Arap arkadaslara sordum o oyle degilmis'' diyip, 
 pehlivan gibi ortaya cikan arkadasimiz Arapca tercumesini getirsin, latin 
 alfabesiyle yazabilirse gercekten cok sevinirim. Kelimelerin altlarina 
 da Turkce anlamlarini yazsin. Aman ha, ayetlerin gelis amacini yazmayi 
 unutmayin. :->
 
 Ayrica Remzi Cirit'e soracagim bir sey olacak. Ben genellikle  sayfa
 niumralarini, hadis numaralarini veriyorum. Gorunun o ki, sizin sayilarla
 araniz pek iyi degil.
 
    Hz. Muhammed 9 yasindaki cocuklarla evlenmis diyorum. Siz hayir o 9 degil,
    11 yasindaydi diyorsun. Kanitlarini gorelim. Nerde yaziyormus 11 yasinda 
    oldugu, gercekten bilmek istiyorum. Inanin ki, sizin yalan soylediginizi
    ima etmiyorum.

 saygilarimla
 ------------
 kaya
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: WOMEN and ISLAM
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:38:03 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

| saygilarimla
| ------------
| kaya
|

This is a test, too.

Beytullah
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:13140 talk.politics.mideast:23488 talk.politics.soviet:9724 soc.culture.greek:11502 soc.culture.europe:10464 soc.history:10161 soc.culture.croatia:77
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: upi.12.11.92 (fwd)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 15:44:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Forwarded message:
>From VM.USC.EDU!LISTSERV Sat Dec 12 11:25:09 1992
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 13:30:02 -0500
From: Tayfun Akin <tayfuna@engin.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <5ceaaeb62.0038c42@accent.engin.umich.edu>
To: trknws-l@VM.USC.EDU
Subject: upi.12.11.92

>From clarinews@clarinet.com (SEVA ULMAN) Fri Dec 11 11:51:20 1992
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: X-Soviet Armenian government is enjoying the fruits of that genocide.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 11:25:36 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec11.040629.5802@trl.oz.au> jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes:

>... but who will implement it for soc.culture.europe? I say that

Some weed. Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million 
Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. 
You, and those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.
Not a chance.

Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, 
Inc., New York (1952). 
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 363 (first paragraph). 

 'How many people lived there?'
 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.
 'Did you see any Turk officers?'
 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'

 "The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me - 
 Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled
 so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into 
 laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense
 of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,
 Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would
 have been.

 From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....
 The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over
 the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last scrap 
 of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags, looms, even
 spinning-wheels.

 'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must leave.'
 ... We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And for hours
 the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains. Like Lot's
 wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in a sack of
 other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'"

p. 354.

"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole
 high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,
 but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust
 of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on
 Moslem villages."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Subyanci Muhammed'in Taparlari ve Bando
Keywords: none
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:14:56 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

Maestro sana bir tek soru soracagim, sen ALLAH'in varligina 
inaniyormusun? 

Beytullah
From: uysal@cs.umd.edu (Mustafa Uysal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Subyanci Muhammedi'in taparlari ve Mazohizm
Keywords: none
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:15:35 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742


   Artik bu tartisma kabak tadi vermeye basladi. Her iki taraf icin de
tartisma olmaktan cikip, buyuk kitlelere hakaret yarisini aldi. Tartismaniza
karsi degilim, ancak tartisirken 'kisisel' fikirlerinizi belirttiginizi
lutfen unutmayin. Sizin (her iki taraf icin de) kisisel fikirleriniz
karsi tarafi (yine individual) kotu goruyorsa, bu tartismanin 
disindaki milyonlarca insanin bunca hakareti yemek icin hic bir
sucu yok. 

   Ayrica, article'larda lutfen biraz terbiyeli olmaya calisalim. 
Ben artik ici bir yigin kufur ve hakaretle dolu yazilari
okumaktan sIkIldIm. Fikir tartisilacaksa lutfen seviyeli ve
medeni bir sekilde tartisalim. Protestolari anliyorum, ancak bunlar
kufur ve hakaret seviyesine lutfen ulasmasin.

  Mustafa Uysal
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:13121 talk.politics.mideast:23462 talk.politics.soviet:9710 soc.culture.greek:11487 soc.culture.europe:10449 soc.history:10148 soc.culture.soviet:11072 soc.culture.jewish:22925
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: FoundingFathers on the wrong track..
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:04:28 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Read what your Founding-Father's said years and years ago :
 
[Amendment of ARTICLE ONE]
 
CONGRESS shall make no LAW respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION...
 
(the Constitution of USA)
(key-words: Congress, law, establishment, religion)
 
I think it is time to make this Amendment more picturesque ? :->    
 
[Further Amendment of ARTICLE ONE]
 
CONGRESS shall make no LAW respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION -
except of its own as it shall be ESTABLISHED by LAW made by CONGRESS....
 
(the Constitution of USA)
(key-words: Congress, law, establishment, religion)
 
Just because Pharaoh said :-> "Moses will alter your RELIGION."
 
- By liberty, we follow what our Founding Fathers prescribed...
- Even if your Founding Fathers were on the wrong track ?
From: Guven.Guzeldere%STANFORD.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (hq.ggg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Haberler--Milliyet, 14 Aralik 1992
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:07:49 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: Turkish Cultural Program List <TRKNWS-L%USCVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

FORWARDED BY TRH@mcimail.com
        TRH is 10 years old...
                     TURKISH CULTURAL PROGRAM NEWS
                         Saturdays at 5:00 PM
                      KUSF FM 90.3, SAN FRANCISCO
                    e-mail address TRH@mcimail.com
               (Also send a copy to trh@jack.sns.com)
                               Milliyet

Mon Dec 14, 1992 11:55 pm  EST
    -Ozal'in Osmanli plani. Cumhurbaskani Turkiye'nin
imparatorluk gucunu kazanmasini istedi. Ozal, Cankaya
KOsk'unde gorustugu eski ANAP'lilarla Turkiye icin dusundugu
Osmanli planini acikladi. Tarihte Avrupa'daki egemenlik
mucadelesinin Osmanli, Avusturya_Macaristan ve Rusya
arasinda gectigini vurguluyan Ozal gunumuzde de benzer
kosullarin olustugunu soyledi.
     -Ozal'dan ILO'ya veto. Cumhurbaskani, gecen hafta
TBMM'de kabul edilen ve calisanlara is guvencesi saglayan
ILO sozlesmesi onay yasasini veto etti.
     -Kibris'da kritik gun. Adada baris gucunun sayisini
azaltarak suresini 6 ay daha uzatan karar tasarisi bugun
onaylaniyor. Turkiye olarak surenin uzatilmasina
katildigimizi, ancak; raporda Gali'nin, Rum tarafini Kibris
hukumeti seklinde anmasina itiraz ettik.
     -Yunan Polisi'nin fiyaskosu. Yunan Polisi,
diplomatimiz, Cetin Gorgu'nun katili 17 Kasim teror orgutu
uyesi olarak yakaladigi 35 yasindaki Epeminondas Skiftulis'i
serbest birakti. Atina'da polisin buyuk fiyaskosu olarak
degerlendi rilen serbest birakilma kararini, savciligin
itirazina ragmen, sorusturma sav cisi aldi ve Skilufis dun
Koridales Cezaevi'nden kefaletsiz cikti.
     -Yeni ABD Yonetiminden olumlu mesaj. Turkiye'ye
guveniyoruz. Clington'un calisma arkadasi Temsilciler
Meclis'i cogunluk lideri Richard Gephardt, Ozal ile
gorustukten sonra yaptigi aciklamada Bush donemindeki iyi
iliskilerin daha da gelistirilmesi icin caba harcanacak
dedi.
     -Carsabma gunu Hollanda ile Istanbul'da oynanacak Milli
Mac nedeniyle bu hafta Birinci Turkiye Ligi'nde mac
oynanmadi.



To:  TRKNWS-L@USCVM
From: RCIRIT%DENVER@VAXF.Colorado.EDU (REMZI CIRIT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: RUH HASTALARI ILE DANS BASKADIR ( Mario Can'a cevap)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:47:00 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



Mr Mario Can veya sirf Mario size daha once tavsiye ettiklerim
iyi gelmedi. Biliyorsun her Dr Gibi Ruh ve Sinir Hastalari Uzmani
DR. Remzi de recetede bir hata yapti. Onun icin bir degisiklik
yapiyorum. Simdi zat-i alinize bir kac sorum var. Cunku hastaliginiz
tesbit etmek icin yardiminiza ihtiyacim var.

Sorular:

1. Dusnuyorum  oyleyse varim diye dusunur, hakliysa senin durumun
ne olacak. ????

2. Boslukda maddenin sekilsiz tanimlanmasi ile senin toplumda
varliginin tanilanmasi arasindaki iliski ?

3. Bilgi eger cevrenin algilanmasinda araci ise, cevrenin senin
gozunde rolu ne ?

4. Varlikda yoklugu tanimlamak, senin biyolojik yaratik olarak
varligini durdurmen arasindaki iliski ?

Bu sorulari cevaplarsan sana, Ruh ve sinir hastalari uzmani olarak
yuzlerce dolara mlolacak receteleri yazacagim.

DR. Remzi Cirit
Ruh ve Sinir Hastaliklari Uzmani
Colorado
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: re: Recalling in sorrow the victims of the supermarket massacre
Date: 17 Dec 1992 08:03:20 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Arxid) [The pride of AT&T, Hasan B Mutlu] writes:
re: Recalling in sorrow the victims of the Azeri Genocide.

(* >Having been in this country for 10 years (and having dealt with an almost
(* >infinite number of idiotic teenagers working as supermarket cashiers,
(* >all making cute remarks about Tri*'s name) I pretty much have learned to
(*  
(* Living things have been doing just that for a long, long time, "sipa of
(* delco". It's the "sipa" thing that I envy. Now, any comment?
(*  
(*      Armenian Soldiers Massacre Hundreds of Fleeing Families:
(*  
(*  'The Armenians just shot and shot. And they came in and started carving 
                                                                    ^^^^^^^
(*  up people with their bayonets and knives.'  A 45-year-old man who had been 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(*  shot in the back  said:' We were walking through the brush. Then they opened 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(*  up on us and people were falling all around. [...] 

Yea, one comment, Arxid Effendi... I just got a wonderful idea of what to
do the next time an idiotic teenager working as a supermarket cashier
makes cute remarks about Tri*'s name. How's this:

        Tri* Family Massacres Dozens of Supermarket Cashiers

'The Tri* family just shot and shot. And they came in and started
carving up teenage supermarket cashiers with their bayonets and
knives.'  A 15-year-old who had been shot in the back said:' We were
done weighting in the chickens and turkeys... Then they opened up on
us and people were falling all around. [...]

Any comments, Arxid Effendi?

Spiros
--
              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Kaya'nin "din"'i mi Ataturk'un "din"
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:55:03 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

> In article <10292348.14134.7998@kcbbs.gen.nz> Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Ha
> >Kaya'nin "din"'ini mi tercih ederdiniz, Ataturk'un "din"'ini mi ?  
>   
> Ataturk'un "din"i diye bir sey yoktur. Bu dunyaya peygamber olmak veya bir  
> din kurmak icin gelmemistir. Olsa olsa gorus cercevesi vardir.  
  
Allah'in "din"'i, Kaya'nin "din"'i olurda, Ataturk'un "din"'i neden  
olmazmis ?  
Galiba sen hayatinda hic Nutuk okumadin, yada nutuk cekmedin...:->  
  
> Emre Erkut                                      Your wisdom is limited
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The genocide of the entire Muslim population of x-Soviet Armenia.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 11:22:43 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <11985@sorley.ed.ac.uk> alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) writes:

>I wonder whether Turkey will be slain by Armenians for the new year.

Living in an alternate universe?

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). 
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 218. (First and second paragraphs)

"Russian troops did terrible things in the Turkish villages...We Armenians 
 did not spare the Tartars....If persisted in, the slaughtering of prisoners, 
 the looting, and the rape and massacre of the helpless become commonplace 
 actions expected and accepted as a matter of course.

 I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the ground,
 in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. They had been as helpless
 and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died as soldiers die in the
 heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage, with weapons in their hands,
 and exchanging blow for blow. They had died as the helpless must, with
 their hearts and brains bursting with horror worse than death itself."

p. 133 (first paragraph)

"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who
 had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians
 abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of
 these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the
 brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,
 mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method
 employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after
 crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw."

p. 19 (first paragraph)

"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of
 ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same 
 fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:13321 talk.politics.mideast:23627 talk.politics.soviet:9809 soc.culture.greek:11594 soc.culture.europe:10564 soc.rights.human:4551 soc.culture.soviet:11216
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:18:09 -0500 
From: Mustafa Unlu <mustafa+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ISLAM'DA MUHAMMED'IN KARILARININ YASLARI NASIL BUYUTULUR?
	<589@blue.cis.pitt.edu>

vhast+@pitt.edu (Veli Hakkoymaz) writes:
> Hazreti Peygamberin(ASM) Zeyneb'i teveccuhunu; eski zaman
> munafiklari gibi, yeni zamanin ehl-i dalaleti dahi medar-i
> tenkid buluyorlar, nefsani, sehvani telakki ediyorlar diye
> soruyorsunuz.
> 

[ a lot more ottoman/arabic deleted]
> itibariyle siz onun evladi olamazsiniz."
> 
> Veli,

TR: Ustad, simdi sen kacinci yuzyildan geliyorsun?

ENG: Which century does this dodo think we live in?

TR:(Iki ayri dilde de yayin yapmazsak yanlis oluyormus)
ENG:(Bilingual transmission to compensate all readers of this group)
M.
From: deniz@atlas.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus)
Subject: Re: "YALAN" duzmecisi vs "GERCEKLIK" avcilari
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:36:59 GMT
X-Posted-From: atlas.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1gb45oINNt4n@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> co725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (A. Fatih Basar) writes:
>4... Ata lisaninin kullanilmasindan rahatsiz olanlarin Ingilizceye
>siginmalari gercekten cok manidar.
>
>Yillarca Turk gencligine empoze edilen assagilik komplekisinin bir
>neticesi olsa gerek. Oyle ya, biz ahmak olmasak, geri kalmis olmasak,
>zavalli olmasak, assagilik olmasak neden genclige birinci hedef olarak
>Bati medeniyetini gosterelim. Biz assagiligiz, onlar ustun; hedef
>onlar gibi olmak. Assagiligin, zilletin boylesi.
>

Dogrusu Ingilizce kullaniminin nedenleri icin sizin kadar ilginc bir
teori getiremeyecegim fakat bildiginiz gibi USENET'in genel dagilim
bolgesi ABD, buraya yazan Turklerin hemen hepsi de dis ulkelerde
ogrenci, dolayisiyla Ingilizce biliyorlar.  Ingilizce yazilimin amaci
arada sirada konusmalara katilan Turkce bilmeyen kisilere bir kolaylik
olsa sanirim.  Isteyen elbette istedigi dilde yazar.

Esen kalin,
Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Kaya ve HZ ZEYNEP ILGILI CARPITMA-1
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:12:11 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

|
|Simdi birazcik peygamberimizin hayatiyla ilgli kitab karistirirsan zeyne'in
|Peygamber ile kan baglantisinin oldugu. Zeyd ile evlenmeden oncede Resullullah
|tarafindan bilindigini bilirsin. Zeynebin Zeyd ile evlenmesi peygamberin
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|baskisi ile oluyor. Arab geleneklerinden birisinin kirilmasina calisiliyordu.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

|ve Zeneb'in kardesi de Zeyd'in kayin biraderi oluyor. Zeyneb Peygamberin
|istegi uzerine, Arab toplumuna gore ust sinifa mensup oludugu halde, eski bir
|kole ile velendirilmisti. Bu zeyneb'in Zeyd'e yukaridan bakmasina sebeb oluyor.
|Kaynaklara gore evlilikleri mutsuz geciyordu. Zeyd zaman zaman Peygambere gelip
|aile ici sorunlarin cozumu icin yardim istiyordu. Resullah hayir bosanma diyo
|rdu. Zeyd sonunda dayanamayip gecimsizlikden karisini bosuyordu. ve 33 cu sure
|37 ayette  ile bosanmis uvey evlatlarin hanimlari ile bosanmis oldukdan sonra
|evlenilmeyecegine dair Arab gelenegini ortadan kaldirilmasina calisiliyor.
|

Yahu biraz dusunsen cevabini kendin bulabilirsin Mr.Kaya, $imdi
Rasulullah (SAV) efendimiz kendisi Zeyd (RA) ile Zeynep (RA) i kendisi
evlendiriyor (yani ba$tan evlenmiyor) ikisinin evlilikleri kotu gidip
ayrilinca da kendisi hemen Zeyneb (RA) ile evleniyor. Peki nicin
bu yolu tercih yerine ilk ba$ta kendisi evlenmedi. T.Dursun'un
hatalarini aynen kopyalaman gerekir mi? evet bu ayet-i kerime
ile evlat ile uvey evladi ayni kategoriye koyan cahiliyye gelenegi
yikiliyor. Hala akledenlerden olmayacakmisin?

Beytullah