From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: Run! I think the Power Plant's Gonna Blow!!
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:50:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.115015.25842@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.233303.16224@news.nd.edu> gsmith@aldarion.next.nd.edu (george smith) writes:

There are climatologists who usually respond to gloval warming issues on
the net, but maybe I can save them the effort of repeating themselves.
>
>>"Invented" global warming?  Have you done any reading on the subject at  
>>all?  I have only done a little and what I've seen is that there has been  
>>an enormous amount of research done on the subject. A lot of it suggests  
>>that we may be undergoing a long term climate change due to the increased  
>>emissions of anthropogenically produced "greenhouse gases."  Of course,  
>>not all researchers agree (researchers hardly ever do).  
>
>If there's been so much research (good reasearch, that is) done, why doesn't
>Greenpeace share some data with us?   A recent lecture was given at 
>Purdue about the recent report from The Marshall Institute in Washington.
>Using satellite data to measure temperature (providing worldwide and not
>just isolated data points), it has been found that in the past 15 years,
>there has been NO significant GLOBAL warming.  Also, the projected "warming"
>of the next 100 years will be as low as 0.5 C.

I would be happt to share such research with you. :)

The projected warming for a doubling of CO2 and equivalents at some
point in the next century is 2.5 C (ranges from 1.5 C to 4.5 C).  
This number is generally accepted
by climatologists.  See the IPCC report for documentation.  I am curious -
what satellite data was used to measure the ground temperature over
the past 15 years?  Considering that the 1980's were the warmest decade
on record, this statement seems suspect.
>
>This is due to the fact that many of the "Global Warming" research has
>only included land data, and ignored 2/3 of the earth--the oceans.

The oceans have been shown to be warming in some areas already.
>
>However, there is ample proof that land mass temperatures have increased,
>but these are mainly due to the expansion of cities (metropolitan areas
>are higher than surrounding countryside).  The problem you are talking 
>about is LOCAL warming.

No. Overall (global) warming, taking the heat islands (cities) into account,
is estimated to be about .5 C already.  In any case, the strongest aspect
of the case for gloval warming is based on future warming (within the
next century), not current warming.

If you are interested in reading up on some recent scientific thought,
I would suggest the 5-22-92 issue of _Science_, which contains an
article called "Greenhouse Science Survives the Skeptics."  I can
e-mail you a ref for the IPCC report if you want it.
>
>I've also seen arguments FOR the addition of more CO2 to the atmosphere,
>but I'm sure you'll find that in your reading.
>
>>With  
>>nuclear plants, you have to worry about them blowing up and where you're  
>>going to put the radioactive waste.  
>
>1. They don't blow up. I suggest you reverse that lobotomy before the
>scars heal.
>
>2. The waste "problem" has been scientifically solved.  
>
>George, how are we going to provide large amounts of clean, baseload power?
>I think you should mull this over before making a fool of yourself again.

While I agree with your points 1 and 2, studies have shown that the most
effective way to get clean power in the short run (1-2 decades) is
through efficieny retrofits.  By effective, I mean the decrease in CO2
emissions/dollar invested.  I am specifically referring to a study
in _Energy Policy_.  I don't have the specific ref handy, but I can get
it (and post more from the study) if you wish.
>
>Tino
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>              Pay off the national debt -- Tax the Church
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: talk.environment