HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:33:20 GMT

stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
> Okay, time for an informal survey.  How many here worship, adore, or favour the
> Queen as sovereign of Canada, or even think it's a good idea, and how many
> participants of this news group feel we should turf the old biddy and her silly
> offspring and get on with it (did my bias show though)?

Costs of Keeping the Queen

    1) Security for occasional Royal visits
    2) 'Offends' non-British Canadians
    3) We get to hear ALL about the Royals on tv and newspapers
    4) Stupid threads in can.politics

Costs of Dumping the Queen

    1) Get pictures of dead political hacks on our money
       (Perhaps at a seance or under a table?)
    2) 'Offends' British Canadians
    3) Bozos in Ottawa still haven't worked out the constitution
       how many elections would it take to do something like
       getting rid of the Lieutenant Gov.
    4) We'll still hear all about the Royals,  they just won't
       be *ours*.
    5) Stupid threads in can.politics


Let's face it;  there are only four groups that REALLY care:

The Whinners

    "It makes us look like colonials"
    	(They come to this conclusion after some half-educated
    	 American tells them "You don't have a democracy cause
    	 youse have a Queen")
    "I don't wanna Queen and I'll hold my breath until we kick her out"
	(Who knows where petulant 5 year olds get their ideas.)
    "She isn't the Queen of Canada she's the Queen of *ENGLAND*"
	(People who haven't clued in to the fact that she's
	 a Queen in name only in both countries)

Fools with a Cause

    "She isn't the Queen of the French, the Chinese, the ..."
	(People who haven't yet grasped that we're Canadians NOT
	 French, Chinese, ... )
    "This is the main reason Quebec wants to separate..."
	(If that's the main reason; let 'em go ...)
    
The Loyalists

    "My great-...-grandfawther fled the US to Canada during the
     revolution;  in his honour we must keep the Queen"
	(My great-...-grandfawther is bigger than yours! Nah-Nah!)
    "The British made this country what it is!  We are British!"
	(People who haven't been to a major city in their lives.)

Nostalga Bufs

    "It's always been this way why change things?"
	(My Dad :-)
--
Robert A. Osborne   ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:24:24 GMT
	<1992Apr13.215633.9275@tsltor.uucp>
	<1992Apr14.135932.8169@cc.umontreal.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.135932.8169@cc.umontreal.ca> coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael) writes:

   Stephen Webb asked how Canadians felt about the monarchy and so I've
   got to leap in with my $0.02.  I don't care much one way or another
   about the English monarchy; my ancestors were Irish and so I don't need
   anybody to explain to me the faults of Britain or its monarchy.  At
   the moment, they are a quaint part of the government whose main attraction
   is being a form of tradition.  When the monarchists write into the Glove
   and Mail (whoops, sorry about the spelling error but I don't know how to
   edit on this thing yet) after a Royal visit they always proclaim that the
   huge crowds are evidence that Canadians long to have the Royals as our
   heads of state.  Strange that they don't suggest this when the Pope gets
   even bigger crowds.  If we MUST have a monarchy for constitutional reasons,
   then I would prefer having one from the native peoples of Canada.  Or
   Gretzky.

No, no, no. I say Super Mario. :-)
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: French in france
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:06:18 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr16.034543.27725@bmerh2.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.225658.22220@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>>In article <11479@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>>>
>>>Because, at that time, it was richer. This was at the very beginning
>>>of the colony. Quebec City was composed of french people from all over
>>>France (although concentrated in a few major area): therefore the
>>>language was "enrichi" of the differents variation (mini-dialects) of
>>>french in France.  [ ... ]
>>
>>Linguists dispute the idea of richer, except in terms of abundance
>>of vocabulary. There is no such thing as one language with an equal
>>number of terms being richer than another language or dialect.
>
>Frank, that was exactly Francois' point - that early Canadian French
>was influenced by various French dialects, and thus contained more
>terms and phrases.  This is precisely your definition of "richer"...


I may have misinterpreted him then.
However I am of the impression that France had even more dialects and
influences than Quebec (50% non-french, 38% non-standard dialects)
and thus one could argue that THIS WAS richer.
So the thing becomes pretty subjective once again...
and so I return to my original point. 

If Q City french was made of french from all over France, how could
it be richer than France french, which (I assume!) also came from all
over France. 

Frank.
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: French in france
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:44:25 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <11388@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>In article <1992Apr03.231628.26105@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>>
>>  I state again::
>>Half the population of France at the time of the Declaration did not
>>speak French.
>>(Source: Hobsbawm, Nations and Nationalism Since 1780.)
>
>Well, I'll have to verify.
>
>If this is true, then it is remarkable that the colons who colonized
>Quebec (then Canada) all spoke french, and no other languages from
>France. It is also strange that all the remaining text from the time
>are in French. There is no litterature from France in languages other
>than french from that time.

Half spoke French and only 12% spoke it "properly", as they say.
Most colonists from France came from one small area, which was
french-speaking.
If you ever get a chance to look at the Historical Atlas of Canada,
look at the map that shows the origins of the Quebecois French.
One big blob.

It would not surprise me at all if most known literature from that period
was in french. How much Basque literature can you name even today?
I do recommend that book for verification (and because it is an
interesting read in itself.)

Frank.
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Sydney Sharpe and Don Braid's new book on the Reform Party
Date: 11 Apr 92 07:14:00 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr5.130755.4802@ac.dal.ca> galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:

>So it's education for the rich, and an endless loop of misery for the poor.
>I'd rather be Canadian, thank you.

Exactly. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Just like Kinnock said once upon a time in one of his speeches while
campaigning in Britain:

     My predecessors did not get a university education not because they were
     lacking in intelligence, not because they lacked the will, but because
     they lacked a platform to stand on to demand equal access to education
     for all citizens.

     (not an exact quote, but the sentiments are fairly accurate)

(Please, try to be accurate and at least include my statement that I do NOT
 support the Libertarian platform, OK? I merely posted it for public amusement)

     Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:21:18 GMT
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Distribution: can
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <1992Apr13.215633.9275@tsltor.uucp>, stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
|> Okay, time for an informal survey.  How many here worship, adore, or favour the
|> Queen as sovereign of Canada, or even think it's a good idea, and how many
|> participants of this news group feel we should turf the old biddy and her silly
|> offspring and get on with it (did my bias show though)?

I favour the Monarch because it symbolizes our attachment, both socially and
economically, to the British Commonwealth.  I assume that separatist oppose
it for the same reason.  Without this connection we are just the 51st state
(or is it 53rd - never did learn much about US history or geography), and 
that is something I find offensive.

Don
BNR has better things to do then tell me what to say on Internet,
  so I hardly think these are their views.
"Pick up the receiver, I'll make you a believer." - Depeche Mode
From: riese@litsuns1.epfl.ch (Marc Riese)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders?
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:02:53 GMT


Ryan Scharfy at Ohio State University writes:

>This may sound like a stupid question, but I ... would like to know 
>why Quebec wants to break away from Canada.  ...
>All points of view welcome.  Try to keep it semi-short. Thanks.

Well, it all started in the year 50,000 B.C. when a very energetic
Mongolian couple named Heidi and Hans Mongolian got lost while 
gathering kiwis in Siberia. They took a right at the Berring,
at a parking lot that has since been replaced by an ocean. 
Before you knew it, the happy couple had thousands of great-grandchildren
scampering all over North America. A mere 51,000 years later,
a fellow named Leif Ericson accidently bumped into them during his
summer holidays. He thought about staying, but it was too cold;
he might have been a Viking, but he wasn't stupid enough to put up with that.

Since then, it's basically been squabbling (in French, chamailler) between
relatives of Hans and Heidi, the French, the English, the very bizarre 
descendants of these groups, and others who were silly enough to join the fun.
The Quebecois want to separate, but whether they decide to do so or not, 
*everyone* knows the squabbling will continue because it has become a 
national sport. This is currently called "Silly Constitutional Squabbling",
but may someday be called "Silly Bilateral Squabbling". Try it, it's fun.

On the other side of the Atlantic, the French and English squabble too.
They started it; they know how to do it best. Each year, somebody on one side
writes a national best-seller saying how those of the other country has bad 
food and rain-soaked brains, and then somebody on the other side does the same
saying how the others cannot understand the concept of "sexual harrassment" 
because their brains stop at the first syllable. 
They all preferred the Indians to the nasty colonials in "Dances with Wolves",
and each night they go to sleep, dreaming of the glorious days of the empire.

Marc Riese
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
Lausanne
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Une opinion
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:10:55 GMT


In article <1992Apr10.130459.20843@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
	julie@eecg.toronto.edu (Julie Payette) writes:

>I am tired, tired, tired of reading Mr. Leibovitch constant whining

Ohmigawd. I guess I can't please everyone.

I won't bother to dignify this flame with a logical response. My only
regret is that M. Payette didn't have the class to take a private complaint
to e-mail. Sorry to bother y'all.

As for you, Julie, I gladly invite myself into your kill file if what I
write bugs ya. Indeed, ignorance for some *can* be bliss.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
              If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
From: orange@alfred.carleton.ca (Paul Vallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: French in france
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:31:56 GMT
Organization: Carleton University

In <1992Apr15.002609.14461@sol.UVic.CA> benoit@active.UVic.CA (Benoit de la Filolie) writes:
>In article <orange.702762249@cunews> orange@alfred.carleton.ca (Paul Vallee) writes:

>>In the Alsace Lorraine region, German is still just as predominant as French.
>>
>> Paul Vallee

>Well, have you been in Alsace ? and in Lorraine ?
>Ask any people overthere if they speak german and you'll hear the answer.

>The "alsacien" is a language spoken in Alsace (of course) but it is NOT
>german. It is close to german but I repeat it is NOT german.  For some one
>who does not speak neither german or "alsacien", I know that it is a little bit
>confusing.

>Benoit.

Sorry man, I was there, and it sounded like german to me.  Then again,
I still think that flemish is dutch....  :)  (so what would you call
afrikaans?  I have this distressing tendency to call that dutch
too...)

Best wishes..



orange@ccs.carleton.ca ------- Paul Vallee ---- 542429@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
------------Home: (613)569-1068 --------- Work: (613)995-6921------------
"We have to shout above the din of our Rice Krispies..."     - The Police
"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
From: thood@pluton.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Separation?
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:21:03 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

olin@reg.triumf.ca (ART OLIN, TRIUMF INET 128.189.128.2) writes:

>Now suppose Quebec separated and gave all its residnt Canadians
>Quebec citizenship. On what possible grounds could their Canadian
>citizenship be revoked?

Disloyalty to the Crown.

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:17:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.224705.21930@bmerh2.bnr.ca>, robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr15.130754.17153@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
|> >
|> >True, but a lot do, like Britian, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.  I'm not saying
|> >it's critical, just that is gives us a link, and hopefully reminds us of our past, and why
|> >we are different than the US.  Besides, how much does it cost us?  Some nice hotels during
|> >visits?  Big deal.  It's a little like being in NATO, the cost is minimal, but the economic
|> >benefit is substantial (even though this is not the purpose of NATO or the Commonwealth).
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> South Africa is not a member of the Commonwealth; it is a republic
|> (or if it is a member of the C. it does not have the queen as head of state.)
|> Why do you want to maintain this attachment to the British.
|> You are Canadian aren't you?
|> Some ethnic call of the hills or something?
|> 
|> 
|> Frank.
|> 

OK! OK! OK! OK! OK!  I get it.  South Africa is not a member of the Commonwealth, I 
was wrong!  Take your hands off the keyboard and wash the foam out of your mouth.

As for knowing I'm Canadian, yes I do.  What does that mean?  Well, for one it 
means I'm capable of disagreeing with someone without pulling out an automatic
weapon.  The fact that we separated from Britian without raising arms is a
very important part of our history, and our future.

All the British Monarchy does is remind us of our past and tell us that we are not
just another US state (contrary to what we see on TV).  The cost is insignificant,
so what's the problem?

BTW, did everyone hear?  Canada is now ranked #1 by the UN as the place to live,
with Japan #2 and US #6, so stop whining so much about taxes and be happy and
proud for once!

Don
BNR has better things to do then tell me what to say on Internet,
  so I hardly think these are their views.
"Pick up the receiver, I'll make you a believer." - Depeche Mode
Newsgroups: can.vlsi
From: newsome@ug.cs.dal.ca (Brent G. Newsome)
Newsgroups: can.jobs
Subject: The Job Market.
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:40:22 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada


	During the last three years I have had the opportunity to 
	work in the CS field, outside of my regular CO-OP work terms
	and university atmosphere.  What I have found is that the
	people making decisions have not kept pace with the changing
	times in the computer industry.

	On another note, there is quickly emerging two classes of 
	CS professionals:  The hard coders, development engineers
	and others with management and people skills.  The management
	people require CS training to do their jobs but also skills
	to MANAGE.  Many traditional CS courses do not address the
	fact that a student that they turn out will not be a programmer
	for life, and will probably move up to the position of a
	manager/supervisor within a few years.  As a result we are
	turning out competent programmers, but that's all, they have
	no skills/training to realize the importance of continuing
	education/retraining etc.  And these are the people who make
	the decisions in the future.

	Just a few thoughts.

	Brent

-- 
| BRENT G. NEWSOME                      |  Mail Addresses:                    |
| 45B Elmwood Avenue, Apt #114          |  INET/ENVOY:  P.NEWSOME             |
| Dartmouth, Nova Scotia                |  UUCP: 01BRENT@ac.dal.ca            |
| Canada, B3A 3E7                       |        newsome@ug.cs.dal.ca         |
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.jobs,comp.jobs
Subject: Computational Vision and Parallel Computing job announce
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:31:55 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada


************** ECOLE POLYTECHNIQUE DE MONTREAL ***********************

The Perception and Robotics Research Group of Ecole Polytechnique invites
applications for a position of Researcher. Candidates should be recent PhD
graduates in Computer Science or Applied Mathematics, with substantial
knowledge and strong interest in Computational Vision and Parallel
Computing. Duties include participation to ongoing research projects of the
Group and supervision of graduate student projects. Send letter and resume,
before April 30, to:

               Prof. Paul Cohen
               Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
               Ecole Polytechnique
               C.P. 6079, station "A"
               Montreal, Quebec, H3C 3A7
               Canada
               Email: cohen@ai.polymtl.ca

In accordance with Canadian and Quebec immigration requirements, priority
will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada. Ecole
Polytechnique is an equal opportunity employer.

--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: can.jobs,ont.jobs
From: woods@robohack.UUCP (Greg A. Woods)
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc.
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 03:58:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.050944.737@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:
> 	It would appear that, in general, universities train CS students
> to learn about computer science, and not 'how to program in language X'.
> This is probably the best way of going about things, as learning a 
> language is really a matter of getting a book and reading it.  Thus,
> universities can spend their time teaching paradigms and somewhat more
> important and theoretically useful things.

Hear Hear!  If you want to learn a particular skill, you might go to a
technical/vocational school or college, or even apprentice.  A
university is / should be a place of "higher learning."  Unfortunately
the corporate H.R. departments often don't put a lot of stock in such
philosophical things and would rather see gobs of practical experience
on top of all the *paper*.

It's amazing how poorly rounded many university students are today.
They have poor language skills, and often little theoretical knowledge.
Maybe that's why H.R. people want to see real-world experience....

Of course it's not right to blame this entirely on the universities,
since the quality of the "stock" they have to work with is
embarrassingly low.  At least most provincial education systems aren't
nearly so bad as their USA counterparts.

On the other hand, it is also quite obvious that many universities are
feeling the crunch too, and are either attempting to re-orient their
curriculum's around more practical skills, or are stuck so far in the
past they don't know which way to turn.

Of course I shouldn't be the one to talk!  :-)
-- 
						Greg A. Woods

woods@robohack.UUCP woods@Elegant.COM  VE3-TCP	UniForum Canada & Elegant Comm.
(416) 443-1734 [home]  (416) 595-5425 [work]	Toronto, Ontario; CANADA
Newsgroups: can.jobs
From: rmallett@alfred.carleton.ca (Rick Mallett)
Subject: position available
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:07:55 GMT


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Caterpillar, AT&T, and IBM.  Today, we invite you to allow APS to play
a significant role in the success of your career.

                     o Computer Network Support o

We are looking for a highly motivated  Computer Science or Engineering
graduate to  support   and  administer  a network   of  40  Unix-based
engineering workstations (IBM RS/6000, HP 700, IBM PCs,  and SCO).  In
addition  to at least two years  of  progressive  experience, you must
have  a  strong   customer-service orientation,  a solid  aptitude for
problem-solving and excellent interpersonal and presentation skills.

If selected, your endeavours will be rewarded with a fully competitive
salary and benefits package, as well as  substantive opportunities for
professional growth.

To apply, forward your  resume',  in confidence,  to:  Manager,  Human
Resources, Carp Systems  International, 600  Terry Fox  Drive, Kanata,
Ontario K2L 4B6.  Voice: (613) 592-5780 / Fax: (613) 592-0584
From: morrison@ppc.ubc.ca (Rick Morrison - ppc sysadm)
Newsgroups: can.jobs
Subject: Surveys: What is a software worker?
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:08:50 GMT
Distribution: canada
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada

I think the other thing to bear in mind is that CS people
have one idea of what a "software worker" is and (small) business
has another. When these surveys are done I am quite sure
that a whole lot of Lotus/DBase/data entry/wp jobs get thrown in 
that no CS grad in their right mind would be interested in. 

I don't know how many times someone at some social gathering
says, upon discovering my occupation, "oh, my nephew is 'the
computer person' for Acme Supply". Further questioning usually 
reveals that the guy actually does document preparation in
Word Perfect on his PC. 

--
Rick Morrison, System Manager    Mail: UBC Pulp & Paper Centre 
Email: morrison@ppc.ubc.ca             2385 East Mall
Phone: (604) 822-6063                  Vancouver B.C. 
Fax:   (604) 822-8563                  V6T 1Z4
Newsgroups: can.jobs,ont.jobs