HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk (Ian Coleman)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Will the real Genesis please stand up?
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:54:03 GMT
Reply-To: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories

Oh no, the old debate that I have heard so many times (mostly at 4am
listening to the Lamb, drinking coffee and eating choclate hobnobs)!

Gabriel left, the band changed. Hackett left, the band changed again.
It continues to change, that (unfortunately) is life.

The first Genesis Album I bought was "Genesis", I loved it (and still
do). Then I worked my way through all the older albums. I like something
on all and nearly all on most (exceptions Duke and Abacab).

I think that the changes are inevitable, one only has to look at
any band which lasted a few albums (Yes, Rush, Camel to name but a few).
If they don't change, they become stale, the old fans get bored, new ones
don't come along. If they do change, new fans come along, and some
old fans complain. (Witness Yes and Rush, I have heard the same debate
on those groups).

It seems to me that as the musicians get older they lose their cutting
edge and head toward the middle of the road. Sad, but too often
true. (Flame away!).

Unfortunately, the music industry has changed too and this is the
environment they work in. The industry seems more interested in quick hits
and less so in music these days. To my ears (must be showing my age)
the percentage of listenable stuff in the charts has steadily decreased.

---
Ian Coleman (ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk)  | "Eat healthily, exercise regularly,
BTL, Martlesham Heath, England  |  you may not live longer, but it'll 
Europe, Earth, Sol, Milky Way...|  certainly feel like it"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rost@rgb.dec.com (My name is Brian Rost)
Subject: Re: ELP rarities
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 27 JUL 92 16:01:40    


In article <1992Jul26.001451.652@metrosoft.com>, gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes...
>Speaking of foreign pressings, has anyone seen the German pressing of  
>Brain Salad Surgery? The sleeve is printed on hard cardboard, and printed  
>in the true colors of the Gieger painting - not the usual purple hue. The  
>poster inside also has a different photo of Keith. The mix of the album is  
>substantially different - much like the ones used for the CD master.

I had two U.S. copies of BSS, and the pictures on the two posters weren't the
same as I recall (only have one copy now!).  Anybody else ever notice this?

> 
>But have you seen the 45 rpm promo for The Nice? 

No, but I'd thought I'd mention I found a budget ($6) CD called "The Nice
Greatest Hits" that covers the Immediate period pretty well, in fact it reminds
me of how bad some of the Nice stuff was!  Label is Big Sound out of Germany.
Usual nonexistent liner notes and credits.

					Brian Rost @rgb.enet.dec.com

					508-568-6115

	****************************************************
	*						   *
	*  The above does not reflect the opinions of	   *
	*  my employer.					   *
	*						   *
	*  If music is outlawed, only outlaws will be      *	   
	*  musicians.					   *
	*						   *
	****************************************************

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: Will the real Genesis please stand up? 
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:55:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.173849.27925@sei.cmu.edu> ledgerj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu  
(Jim Ledger) writes:
> Ok - NOW. For those of you who feel that Gabriel, in a sense, took
> Genesis with him when he left (Eber, Roy, et. al.). Just out of
> curiosity, what was the first Genesis album you heard/enjoyed?
> I'm wondering if there is a correlation between the era in which
> people first found Genesis, and their opinion as to which
> incarnation is the "real" Genesis.
> 
> Jim

The first one I heard at length was Seconds Out. I then went out and got  
everything previous to that. Even though it was after Gabriel, I think his  
influence was still there. And Then There Were Three bothered me when it  
first came out, but shortly after I determined that there were a lot of  
treasures on it. Duke was hideous from my point of view, and although they  
reclaimed some ground with Abacab (quite a suprise actually) I don't know  
as they ever had the same magic again. I never even bought Invisible Touch  
or the new one.

I guess if I had to pick a favorite set of albums it would be the bootlegs  
from 1978 or so. They still played a lot of older material but the live  
band was very fluid then. The live versions from that period of the And  
Then There Were Three material blow away the studio versions too.

I have a Lamb boot that I'm pretty partial to as well.

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: John Wetton and Asia
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:08:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

marshall@fs03.webo.dg.com (Marshall Wood) writes:

>Does anyone know what happened to John Wetton?

He is not a member of ASIA this time around.  I understand
from a variety of sources that his contributions to the band
were not in the direction the rest of the band desired.

>He was still in Asia as of the end of 1990, but he is
>nowhere to be found on their latest release, _Aqua_.

I just picked up both "Aqua" and "Live In Moscow" import cd's, and
was surprised by his absence and all of the line-up changes.

>Why did he leave and what's he up to now?  (Hopefully
>not more dreck like _Wetton/Manzanera_!)

I believe he is working on a solo project.  With who, I do not
know.

>The way people come and go from this band, I wouldn't
>be surprised to see him show up on the next album, though.

Carl Palmer is featured on the new album, but is touring with ELP.
At this point, you could be right.

>Can anyone provide a tracklist for their rare b-sides
>compilation, _Aura_ ?

If anyone can obtain a copy of this mystery "Aura" release, please
post the source or sources.


-- 
David De Trolio - (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)
--------------------------------------------------
"We're sailing on the wind of better days"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 11:11:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.190950.5143@linus.mitre.org> rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.115025.4092@gvl.unisys.com>  
>rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
>> In article <elambert.711317846@qualcom> elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com  
>(Eber Lambert) writes:
>> >Best Genesis: Selling England,Lamb...,Nursery Cryme, Trick, Trespass...
>> >              Foxtrot.
>> >
>> >	      Everything else is average(wind, Live, And then)
>> >	      or garbage ( => Duke)
>> >
>> >But me... I'm just a lawn mower
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> I can tell by the way you walk.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>It must be a draw...  there's no one left alive.


So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
From: bondt@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Piet de Bondt)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Will the real Genesis please stand up?
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:13:08 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

The first 'real' Genesis notes I heard were from Mama.
I bought the single.
Then (later) I bought Invisible Touch
I didn't listen to it VERY much. It was one of my last albums before I
got a CD player...
Then I heard the first 10 seconds of "The Knife" from Trespass...
... and I knew what I had to do... I went out and bought or recorded
about every early album from Genesis... except for "From Genesis To Revelation"
"Abacab", "And Then There Were Three", "Winds And Wuthering", "Duke" I bought
every other CD. And the albums of the era before Hackett left I like the most.
Just my  Yen 0.002 (inflation!) 

Piet de Bondt                                E-Mail : bondt@dutiws.tudelft.nl
=============================================================================
"Life's too short for all that shit."                           David Gilmour
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: BUEBL@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de (Buebl Felix)
Subject: You have a right to go home
Organization: University of Ulm, Germany
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:51:34 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

I recently used this right after visiting a "rock disco".

What gives a mental orgasm to all the people there? Probably this:

[DRUM COMPUTER ON] daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df
daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df daf df [AND SO ON. Please change
the whipping drum sound to an exploding drum sound every 2 songs and be
sure to have at least 3 different rythms at one evening (how about
da da df da da df or da df df df da df df df)]
[FOG-MACHINE ON - but don't forget to put much parfume in it]
sssssssssshhh...........        ssssssssssshhhhh............

I just left out 666 other thing I didn't like,

Felix 
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert)
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:50:14 GMT

ledgerj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Jim Ledger) writes:

>In article <nigel.711813275@barney> nigel@cs.city.ac.uk (Nigel Mitchem  - System Support) writes:
>>
>>Anything up to and including 'Lamb lies down...' I feel is representative
>>of Genesis, then again I should say 'as I know 'em!'. Perhaps one of their
>>very early albums (maybe the very first, not sure) called 'In the Beginning'
>>(I think...) is not representative of the what I would call the true
>>genesis...

>Interesting.  This suggests that you regard the departure of Gabriel as
>the "end" of Genesis. 


Bingo.


el
From: kko@philpav.UUCP (Karl-Koenig Koenigsson)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Gentle Giant
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:08:23 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries, Stockholm, Sweden
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk) writes:
: Does anyone know anything about this band?  I have "Three Friends" on
: CD, but was a little disappointed with it.  I heard they were very much
: like Genesis and ELP.  "Three Friends" has some good songs, but at
: times it is kind of weak.  What albums would you suggest are their
: best?
: Thanks,
: Dave

Gentle Giant was an English band consisting mainly of three brothers
Shulmann and a keyboardist named Kerry Minnear. Their first album,
Gentle Giant, was released in 1971 and the last one I have, The
Missing Piece, came in 1977. After this one there was at least one
that I know of, Giant for a day, but I didn't like The Missing Piece
and didn't buy any later release. Maybe I was stupid... Anyway, from
what I've gathered (and judging from the tendencies in The Missing
Piece) they turned more hard rock and less experimenting. It probably
payed better, I don't know.

Their music features some very interesting and pleasurable exercises
in rythms and harmonies, and those of you who's got a background in
classical music will no doubt find some of the songs really
interesting due to the inclusions and mixing of music from different
eras, though composed, arranged and performed by the band. The best
way to sum them up, is by the neon sign they kept over the stage
during one of their tours: "Pretentious"

Their albums in a roughly chronological order (I dont keep the records
in my office, so I can't check ;-), along with my highly personal
comments:

Gentle Giant			Their first album; contains a couple
				of good songs as well as a boring
				version of God Save The Queen
				
Acquiring the Taste		In my opinion the best

Three Friends			The most thorough one; a main idea
				connects all the songs.

Octopus				Musically very competent, though not
				easy listened. Definitely not a good
				place to start. (Or maybe...)

In a Glass House		Uneven, pitterpatty

The Power and the Glory		Uneven, pitterpatty

Free Hand			This one features a sung fugue in four
				voices, this song alone makes the
				album worth buying.

Playing the Fool		A live double album. Contains some
				very good arrangement and medleys of
				their production.

The Missing Piece		Lacking the musical curiosity and the
				experimentalness of the others. Rather
				boring actually.

Giant for a day			I don't have this one


If I was to pick the three best, I would go for Aquiring the Taste,
Free Hand and Octopus.

Cheers!

	.koenig
-- 
Karl-Koenig Koenigsson, Computer consultant, Abile AB, Uppsala, Sweden
                       +---------------------------------------------------
kkk@tdb.uu.se          | "I believe I found the missing link between animal
kko@asd.tds.philips.se |  and civilized man. It's us" -- Konrad Lorenz
From: smsst8+@pitt.edu (Steven M Scholnick)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Whatever Happened to Roger Waters & David Gilmour
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:15:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul29.162627.2536@pacdata.uucp> jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins) writes:
>Radio Kaos was great.  Nuff said.
>
>Momentary lapse to me was a bad David Gilmour solo album.  Still better than
>most of the crap out there, but not up to snuff.  How many of you have Dave's
>2 solo albums?  Great stuff.
>

I kind of like the first half of MLoR.  It is not as good as Radio Kaos, wihch
is a greta album.  I hate Pros & Cons; it is incredibly boooring.

I like both of Gilmour solo albums; I might actually like the first one a
little more.

I saw David Gilmour during his _About Face_ tour; he was incredible.  I am
working on getting a boot from that tour.


>>	Didn't see the KAOS show.  Drat.


Yeah.  I missed that one too, but I have a recording of it, which I taped off
the radio.  It's not bad.  I still like the Gilmour show better.
__________________________________________________________________________
|                             |                                          |
| Steve Scholnick             |  I don't believe in Destiny              |
| steves@vms.cis.pitt.edu     |  or the guiding hand of fate             |
| steves@theory.chem.pitt.edu |  I don't believe in the stars or planets |
|                             |  or angels watching from above           |
|                             |                      - N. Peart          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: Whatever Happened to Roger Waters & David Gilmour
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:39:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.150803.8719@gvl.unisys.com> garyp@gvls2.gvl.unisys.com (Gary Palangian) writes:
>Hey Now,
>
>    Anybody have current info on Roger Waters?  Whatever happened
>to Radio KAOS II?  Projects in the works?
>
>    And what about Dave?  Any new solo stuff on the horizon?  

Although "Radiowaves" was the only song I heard off of Radio Kaos, I got
the general impression that we should all be relieved that there was no
"Radio Kaos II".  Evrything I heard about that album was pretty
negative.  However, Waters is supposed to be releasing a new album
called "Amused to Death" (catchy title) sometime this summer/early fall.

As for Gilmour...don't look for him to be seen with Waters again too
soon (or ever again, for that matter).  From the scathing interviews
they've both given, I think the differences are completely
irreconcilable.  Although, another Water-less Floyd album is supposedly
in the works and will be released within the next 6 months.

...or so says the grape vine.


-- 
--------------
Gary Schroeder		
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov 
Brookhaven National Laboratory     "Home of the Big BNL Burger."	
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rfarias@cecux1 (FARIAS MOYA RODRIGO ANDRES)
Subject: Re: Gentle Giant
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:17:27 GMT
Organization: Centro de Computacion - Universidad de Chile

In article <elambert.712352677@qualcom> elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert) writes:
>David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know anything about this band?  
[...]
>>What albums would you suggest are their
>>best?
>>Thanks,
>>Dave
>
>I would suggest "Power and the Glory" or "Octupus". If they dont grab you 
>give up.
>
>Of course, jump at "In a Glass House" if you can find it.
>
>Also a compilation "Giant Steps" is a good place to start.

 Try "Free Hand" too... it's great IMHO.

                           .--------------------------------------------------.
                           |   .--. .--. .--. /  Rodrigo Farias M.            | 
                           |  /    /---/(--' /   rfarias@cecux1.cec.uchile.cl | 
                            --------------------------------------------------'
From: palmer@tallis.enet.dec.com (Colonel Mode)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Dixie Dregs on CD
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:17:17 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>Huh?  _Unsung Heroes_ was released on CD?  Maybe you are thinking of the
>Dregs' best-of CD, which had a lot of that album on it.
>BTW, if you have the new live album, care to post some info on it?

Yes, I have every Dixie Dregs album except for "Industry Standard" and the 'best
of' on CD. If you do a bit of research you might still be able to find copies of
"Dregs of the Earth" and "Unsung Heroes", I believe they have been out of print
for some time now.

The new "Bring 'Em Back Alive" is great! I've been listening to it every day.
The performance itself is fantastic. Although the recording is not as bright and
clear as I would have liked, it is decent, and the mix is good, although the
keyboards are sometimes drowned out by guitar. There are twelve cuts, including
Led Zep's "Kashmir". My favorite cuts include "Road Expense", "Holiday",
"Country House Shuffle", "Odyssey", and the "Take It Off the Top" medley which
includes snippets of "Free Bird", "Summertime Blues", and a couple of other
songs also by other artists.

*****
Chris Palmer
palmer@tallis.enet.dec.com "Colonel Mode"
work:(508)486-6667 dtn:226-6667
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:29:35 GMT

ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen) writes:

>>released, although I expect more Womad influence.  BTW, if you liked
>>_Passion_, check out the Womad sampler CD's, especially the music of Asia
>>collection.              -----------------

>Whoa !What are these ? You don't mean "Musicand Rhythm - A benefit for
>a World of Music, Arts and Dance" has FINALLY been released on CD...
>Or is this something else ?

I'm not entirely sure what *you're* referring to, but WOMAD is more than
just one concert or two.  WOMAD is, I believe, a "foundation" (co-founded
by Peter Gabriel?) for the advancement of recognition of World Music.  As
such, I'm sure they do quite a few things.  One of which was to release a
series of CD's sampling music from around the world.  Good luck finding it,
however; I believe they're rather hard to find.
--
Dave!
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:31:45 GMT

glitto@iastate.edu (Scott M Klabacha) writes:

>steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) writes:

>>I don't think he's [Phil Collins] really evolved at all, especially if you 
>  compare him to
>>Gabriel, who *is* on the leading edge.  

>I was *extremely* dissapointed by _Shaking the Tree_; the new "Here Comes the
>Flood" was OK but nothing superspecial, there were too many songs from _So_,
>some songs were mangled singles versions, etc.

Collections are usually released when an artist has a long span between
albums.  While PG may have had some input on "Shaking the Tree", I'm sure
there were equal parts industry weasels.  

>Does anyone know if this was a contractual obligation or something? Is there
>hope for Peter, or has he been hanging around with Phil'n'Mike'n'Tony lately?
>_Passion_ was *fantastic*, but is the new material he's working on some
>more wondrous Peter stuff, or is it annoying garbage? Please, does anyone
>know if Peter is alright?

I believe a new Gabriel album is in the works for Fall release.  If the
past is any indication, it will be quite different than anything previously
released, although I expect more Womad influence.  BTW, if you liked
_Passion_, check out the Womad sampler CD's, especially the music of Asia
collection.
--
Dave!
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: ledgerj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Jim Ledger)
Subject: Re: the worst genesis song
Organization: Ada Joint Program Office
Distribution: alt.music.progressive
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:56:34 GMT

Gee, it's tough to come up with a single choice, but here's my bottom five,
in reverse order:

5. Me and Virgil
4. No Reply At All (Ugh -- those horns)
3. Paperlate (horns again)
2. Hold On My Heart (I think this beats "In Too Deep" in the smarm dept.)

and the bottom of the heap...

1. Invisible Touch


Jim
From: David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Seconds Out
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:58:06 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Jul26.000229.542@metrosoft.com>
gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:

> Has anyone else here heard the UK pressing of Seconds Out? Just recalled  
> how thrilled I was to hear that it ended differently than the US pressing.  
> On the UK one you get to hear a tape of Ethel Merman singing "There's No  
> Business Like Show Business" as the bad leaves the stage. Pretty cool! (At  
> least it was when I got the album new at the age of 16...).

I and many of my friends have the US pressing and it ends with Ethel
Merman also.
From: detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: ELP at Garden State Arts Center 07-26-92
Keywords: ELP,EMERSON,LAKE,PALMER
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:08:20 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I caught ELP at the Garden State Arts Center on July 26.  WHAT A SHOW !

They opened with the familiar "Welcome Back" excerpt, and jumped right into
"Tarkus".

The rest of the set (not necessarily in order) was:

Knife Edge

Affairs of the Heart

Paperblood

Keith Emerson Piano Solo

Close To Home

Black Moon

Romeo & Juliet

From The Begining (Greg Lake on Acoustic Guitar)

Pirates

Lucky Man (Greg Lake on Acoustic Guitar, then complete band)

Pictures at an Exhibition
(Featuring Carl Palmer's solo)

ENCORE

Fanfare for the Common Man

America

Keith Emerson on Hammond organ with daggers inserted in the keyboard,
throwing it around, and playing it while it falls on top of him.

The drum setup included two gongs which during his solo were reflecting
images as he struck them in sequence to the lighting.

The keyboards included piano, organs, and electronic keyboards all on a
silver and black platform, similar to what he had during the ELPowell
tour.

There was a lot of energy coming from the band, and they really seem to be
enjoying playing the old material again.  The crowd was packed with ELP
fans of all ages, and they gave the band complete support.

I hope they come around again.  If you have a chance, catch them.


-- 
David De Trolio - (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)
--------------------------------------------------
"We're sailing on the wind of better days"
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:30:00 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

: >His Firth of Fifth really excells.
: ^^^^  ?

I meant "his solo on FoF"..

Scott
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive