HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:43:29 GMT

In article <lb1lo6INNahn@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
>
>		hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) :
>		> Has every decent-minded Asian American done their 
>		> duty by seeing Brandon Lee in this summer's action 
>		> adventure flick "Rapid Fire"? Probably not.

Nope.  And I doubt I will, either.

>	> I am often disapointed in the inability of Asian Americans to 
>	> support their own kin.

This goes back to the question, "Are all Asian-Americans kin of each other?"
I don't go to see a movie based on its cast; I do it based on its subject
matter and how well it is presented in the movie.  I think supporting
something like *Rapid Fire* only helps to support more senseless violence.

>       > When a black film in released,  African 
>	> Americans come out of the woodwork,  because they understand 
>	> the importance of the film doing well.  If the film does not do 
>	> well,  then the movie executives, will continue to think that 
>	> people X are unmarketable. 
>
>Now hang on a sec. Asian leads in films are not as numerous as Caucasians
>and now African-Americans so I'm not sure what you're talking about. 
>Films that do not have a wide release and have not been promoted as well
>are big factors in whether people even know about the movie. In fact,
>many of the movies I've seen with largely (or all) Asian casts, I found
>in the video stores. Examples are Dim Sum, Eat a Bowl of Tea, The Wash, 
>and Great Wall. I don't even know when these were in the theatres and I 
>bet they only had a limited distribution and little to no promotion. 

Depends on what you mean by "limited distribution."  If you mean that these
movies are not played in mainstream theaters, then you're probably right.
If you mean that these movies are played only in a few cities or in certain
regions of the country, then you are less right.  I saw *Dim Sum*, *A Great
Wall*, and *Eat a Bowl of Tea* in Houston when the movies came out.  I saw
*The Wash* in Manhattan NY, so it's quite possible that movie did not make
widespread distribution.  Where else have people seen this one?

However, if there is enough interest, "artsy" movies can be shown at
"mainstream" theaters.  In Houston, *Mississippi Marsala* is an example.

>But take heart, I did see a lot of Asians come out to see The Last
>Emporer and Rhasody in August.

Hated the former; never heard of the latter.  But that's just *my* opinon.
From: patw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Patsy Wang)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:11:07 GMT
Subject: Re: "Asian-Americans..."
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

>/ hpcc01:soc.culture.asian.american / edcheng@terapin.com (Edmund Cheng) / 12:41 am  Sep  8, 1992 /
>        In my previous posts, I stated some things that may have been ignorant
>and not have had much thought put in them.  Some of the things I said I myself
>go by, but I should not force these ideas onto other Asian-Americans.  I cannot
>say that someone should know Cantonese just because they are Cantonese or I
>cannot say that you must choose one culture or the other.  You are yourself and
>it is your own choices and your own right to be who want to be.  
>Because I have my own thoughts, doesn't give me the right to push them onto
>others.  I now know that Chinese-cu and Chinese-ge are two completely different
>things.  And I should have thought thoroughly before I said anything to offend
>anyone Chinese-ge.  A chinese-ge is no more nor less "chinese" than I am.  And
>do try to keep in mind that I am a young mind with little knowledge and little
>experience.  Bear with me.
>----------

Edmund, by all means, DO NOT LISTEN TO DWIGHT JOE.  I thought your post
was fine, and I admire your stand on this.  I just came back from a month
long trip to Taiwan, and really learned about my culture.  It's made me
appreciate my background, and I can honestly say I am damn proud to be
Chinese-American.

Dwight Joe doesn't like himself, thinks the world is unfair, and believes
that the reason for all his troubles is the fact that he's Asian.  He
attacks everything Chinese-cu.  One day he'll realize that he'll still 
problems if he was born Caucasian.  Maybe then he'll ease up on us.

Everyone has their own thoughts and ultimately make their own decisions.
However, if you should choose to, you have the right to try to influence
some of your friends.  Invite them to a cultural event, a dance at your
local college hosted by an Asian group.  Ask them to come along to a
Double Ten or Chinese New Year celebration.  Alot of times just being
around Asians will increase awareness and may make them WANT to learn
more.  That happened to me, my brother and sister.  And if they don't
want to, well, that's OK too.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
id <m0mThZf-0000CdC@crash.cts.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 92 17: 12 PDT
	id <ic61365@pro-amber.cts.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 92 17: 02 PDT
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki)
Subject: Re: Clinton and Foreigners
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 16:57:40 PDT

In <1992Sep12.193217.22974@usl.edu>
pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M) writes:

>
>	Bill Clinton promises
>	to take America back for Americans.
>
>	It shouldn't be too hard
>	to figure out who he considers to be "Americans,"
>	and who he wants to "take it back" from.
>
>	If you're a US citizen,
>	please register while there's still time
>	and please get out and vote.
>
>	If you're a foreign national applying for citizenship,
>	please coax your friends who can to register and vote.
>
>	Don't just stand by doing nothing,
>	and let Clinton slam America's door on the world.
>
>-- 
>
>pssres12@ucs.usl.edu	Gerard Vignes, USL PO Box 42709, Lafayette LA 70504 USA

Amen! My wife is a naturalized citizen who has never voted in an election.
The thought of President Clinton has got her so worried that she is now
registered and trying to get her friends off their backsides to go register
and be ready for November.

ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.stanford.edu (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Originator: cynic@mojave.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 07:29:16 GMT

In article <YAMAUCHI.92Sep6011353@sartre.ces.cwru.edu> yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu
(Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>In article <79215@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep2.123638.7458@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>>>  My point is that as long as you let people think that you're not
>>>  a full-fledged American, they won't think you have a vested interest
>>>  in this country.  
>>I've never really run into that problem.  Anyway, if "full-fledged
>>American" means "not Chinese," then what's the point of being a
>>"full-fledged American."
>It seems to me that there are three different things that are getting
>confused here: nationality, ethnicity, and culture.  I'm American in
>nationality, Japanese in ethnicity, and American in culture.

Here's where my notation comes in handy.

Japanese-cu = Japanese in the cultural sense
Japanese-ge = Japanese in the ethnic (i.e. genetically Japanese) sense
Japanese-ci = Japanese in the sense of Japanese citizenship

So, Mr. Yamauch is Japanese-ge but American-ci and American-cu.

>>>  However if you "hide" behind, "Oh guys, I'm not AA, I'm Chinese."  
>>I'm not saying that.  I'm saying, "I'm Chinese, you guys figure out if
>>I'm AA or not, and let me know."
>Are you saying that you're a Chinese citizen, ethnically Chinese, or
>culturally Chinese?  If you're an American citizen of Asian descent,
>then you're an Asian-American, regardless of anything else.

Mr. Wang _might_ actually be American-Chinese.  These are people
who insist that, despite their American citizenship, they are
firstly Chinese-cu and that their "mother land" is China.
Their principal loyalty lies with China.

>>Why is it so important what I consider myself as?  I am who I am.
>Actually, I don't think that these group identities are *that*
>important.  They do affect your personality in one way or another, but
>they're only a small part in the overall picture.  Knowing who you are
>as individual is what really matters -- and that goes far beyond
>nation, race, and culture.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.                       | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.                    | especially, don't buy
                                                      | from Capitol Toyota in
(Suggestions for my .sig are welcome.)                | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:58:56 GMT

In article <79214@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <SHAW.92Sep3092002@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>>What terms are these?  If you want to consider yourself Chinese first, then
>>that is your perogative.  
>
>I get the impression that my considering myself Chinese is somehow
>incompatible with being considered Asian-American by AA activists.
>Those are the terms that I'm unwilling to accept.

The root of this is the deeply-ingrained notion in American (and probably
lots of others) culture that a person's race (and culture) can be split up
into component parts, which add up to the whole.  Thus, just as Tub-O-Lard
Brand Hot Dogs can be 67% fat-free (therefore, 33% fat), a person can get
dissected as x% Chinese, y% American (note the implication that American
== "white, of European ancestry"), z% Martian, etc.

Given the widespread nature of this underlying assumption, saying "I'm
Chinese" becomes politically dangerous.  If you say you're 100% Chinese,
you are presumed to be 0% American (==white).  Even if you admit the
slightest bit of Chinese cultural influence, you are automatically
presumed to be that much less than 100% American.  Thus, when the
economy gets sour, people want to protect the jobs of "real, 100%"
Americans, not those goddamn foreigners.  When a war breaks out, those
people perceived to be less than 100% American get deported or
incarcerated.  When there's an election, only "real, 100%" Americans
have a chance at getting elected.

Some people attempt to resolve this by having percentages add up to
more than 100.  Thus the happy claims of "I'm 100% Chinese AND I'm 100%
American!" making the speaker 200% human.  If you're successful at
foisting this off on the general public in place of the prevailing
stupidity, more power to you.

Of course, it'd be nice to have Asian Americans included into the American
mainstream to the point that we could proudly say, "I'm Chinese (or Japanese
or Korean or Pilipino etc.)" the way many a white American proudly say
"I'm Irish" or "I'm German" or "I'm Italian" and not worry about
not getting a job for presumed language inability or visa ineligibility,
not getting promoted for presumed cultural unsuitability for management,
or not getting a chance at life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,
since we must be evil, sneaky, foreign, Oriental spies.

						--Alan Hu
>
	[Stuff about other people's perceptions being based on one's
	 self-perception deleted.]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: baindur@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Satyen Baindur)
Subject: Re: Asian-American success (was Re: Hiring quotas and faculty positions)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 02:43:16 GMT

achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:

>For s.c.a.a readers:  the age-old affirmative action debate has infected
>sci.research.careers.  Let's tune in:

>In article 3354@tc.cornell.edu, bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:

>Before you further promulgate the "model minority" myth, you should note
>that the most successful post-'60s Asian-American immigrants were already
>from the professional and academic classes.  They did not "reach" high
>achievement; they merely replicated it.  Starting from slavery and social
>immobility, African-Americans have had much farther to "reach" in 1-2
>generations.

>It is also important to recognize that these Asian-American success stories
>are a smaller part of the picture than most people recognize.

>Most Hmong and Cambodian immigrants do not start from a professional/academic
>experience, and to lump them in with the "Asian-American success story" is to 
>dismiss the great discrimination and disadvantages they suffer.

I think you're overreacting. I think Dov correctly made the distinction. 
(S)He was talking abut people similar in socio-economic status to the 
Hmong and the boat people. Some of their second-generation have also
acheived high levels of academic success. Similarly, the reference to 
the Japanese and Chinese being severely discriminated against in the 
past is very apropos. 

>On the other end of the scale, Asian-Americans received fewer than 2 percent 
>of the new PhD's in mathematics awarded last year by US universities.
>Unfortunately, we routinely get mistaken for foreign citizens, so that where
>there is affirmative action for "underrepresented" minorities and preference
>for US citizens, Asian-Americans are the most disadvantaged among all US 
>ethnic groups.

This is a very valid point. Our school applies the category 'Asian-American'
to refer both to students from Asia and to American-born or raised Asians. 
This artificially inflates the numbers of Asian Americans, 
although As-Ams are not under-represented at our school. 

As an Asian-born student, I finally had to choose the ethnic category 
'Other' to refer to myself in order to comply with the Civil Rights Act 
of 1964 !

-- 

Graduate School ! It's not just a job, it's an indenture !!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M)
Subject: Clinton and Foreigners
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:32:17 GMT

	Bill Clinton promises
	to take America back for Americans.

	It shouldn't be too hard
	to figure out who he considers to be "Americans,"
	and who he wants to "take it back" from.

	If you're a US citizen,
	please register while there's still time
	and please get out and vote.

	If you're a foreign national applying for citizenship,
	please coax your friends who can to register and vote.

	Don't just stand by doing nothing,
	and let Clinton slam America's door on the world.

-- 

pssres12@ucs.usl.edu	Gerard Vignes, USL PO Box 42709, Lafayette LA 70504 USA
From: mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:20:02 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta

In article <1992Sep14.230815.16143@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <13795.2ab4d17c@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
>luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>>[story in "Raise the Red Lantern"]
>>I agree. It coud have happened in any countries. 
>
>The film illustrates the oppressive condition for women in China.
>It is far worse in China than in the USA.  To say that those
>conditions are equally true in both the USA and China is to
>out rightly lie about the _degree_ of severity.
>
>Women in Chinese society have been treated like dirt for a long time.
>This applies principally to women in the underclasses, which is
>almost everybody in Chinese society.
>
I think you should look at some history, particularly North American.
It is always misleading to compare situations in the past in one
culture to current situations in another culture.  The treatment of
women pre-WWII in North America was not particularly good.  In North
America, at the turn of the century women were not allowed to vote,
were not allowed in many professions, and were largely viewed as
their husbands property.
>>However, I was very depressed after the movie.
>>Does anyone know why the film was banned in china several years ago?
>
>According to Siskel & Ebert, the film was also banned by the Chinese
>government on Taiwan.  Both gov'ts sought to hide any revealing look
>at the state of Chinese society; much of the conditions that existed
>at the time of the film still exist today.

I really doubt this claim.  What is your evidence??
>
>
>After that, read some Western sources about Chinese society.
>You'll learn that during the Ming Dynasty, astronomers at
>an ancient astronomical observatory (that still stands in Beijing)
>urged the government to adopt the superior Western calendar
>and certain other Western advancements and that all those astronomers
>were subsequently executed.  (source: PBS)  In those days,
>the law forbid the public in general from studying astronomy--a real
>science, but astrology--hocus pocus--was popular and was enjoyed by
>all.  (source: "Planetary Exploration")  Well, so much for the myth
>that education is a special part of Chinese culture.
>
Again, I think you should read a little bit of history.  At approximately
the same time in Europe, the study of astronomy was also illegal.
I really hope your not in a science of engineering department, since
this comment show a real lack of knowledge of the basic history of
science.
From: patw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Patsy Wang)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:32:38 GMT
Subject: Re: asian a. in comp. related fields (repost)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

I've worked for Hewlett Packard for several years, and couldn't be
happier with the company.  Sure we gripe about one thing or the 
other, but overall, HP's great to work for.

In 1988, we had approximately 24,000 employees in the Northern
California area.  Worldwide (we're in countries all over the
world) there are 90,000 employees.  These numbers are lower now,
due to cut-backs.

Yes there are quite a bit of Asian Americans in the company.
Ask whatever you want, and I'll try to answer your questions.
Remember, this is just *MY* experience with the company.

Patsy
From: sstai@ocf.berkeley.edu (Samuel S. Tai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: NASA is accused of racism against Asian Americans
Date: 10 Sep 1992 03:51:46 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash.berkeley.edu


As I recall, this took place at the Ames Research Laboratory.  I haven't
heard if this was resolved or not.  Maybe there's a news blackout at Ames
while the investigation continues.  (Caveat:  I'm just idly speculating
that there may be a blackout.)

-- 
-----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Samuel S. Tai          | Wisdom is supreme, therefore get wisdom.
sstai@ocf.berkeley.edu | Though it cost you all you have, get understanding.
                       |                                -- Proverbs 4:7 (NIV)
-----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
From: nina@panix.com (Nina Yuan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What it means to be an American
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:08:03 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <79219@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:

>I remember that while I was walking through the crowded streets in
>Taiwan, that there was a part of my soul that had lain dormant while I
>was growing up in the United States, which slowly came alive that
>summer.  From that part of my soul, there came a powerful feeling,
>which I honestly had not expected.  The words associated with that
>feeling were "hui jia le."  (I'm home.)

>Most participants to the "love boat" tour return to the United States
>realizing how "non-Chinese" they were.  My experience in Taiwan was
>different.  I realized that although I live in the United States,
>there always would be a part of me thinking and dreaming about the
>land across the Pacific.

Hmmm...people who remember some of my other posts to this group will recall
that I consider myself "100% American" and that I get annoyed when people
assume otherwise.  However, I did have a similar reaction to Joe Wang's when
I visited Taiwan four years ago.  I was only there for three weeks, and with
my parents all the time (since I couldn't read any Chinese then, it'd be a 
little hard to get around myself) and my reaction was not quite as...powerful,
I guess, but it was stil there.  I felt that I was somewhere where I could
belong, where I could be accepted.  And although I felt that the United
States is my true home (and still feel that way,) the words "hui jia le" do
seem appropriate somehow.  Interestingly, in the U.S. it would not be uncommon
for people to peg me as a "foreigner" based on my appearance if they did not
hear my voice (accentless except for a trace of New Yawk...), while in Taiwan
it would be assumed that I "belonged" until I started talking (and English
words would creep into my Mandarin conversation).  Maybe this had something to
do with my reaction.

Well, I'll probably visit Taiwan again next summer (maybe as part of the "love
boat"); I wonder if the feeling will return?

-nhy

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nina H. Yuan
Harvard College             Panix -- Public Access Unix & Internet of NYC
yuan1@husc.harvard.edu      nina@panix.com
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:28:34 GMT

In article <13799.2ab51525@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> In article underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>> Women in Chinese society have been treated like dirt for a long time.
>> This applies principally to women in the underclasses, which is
>> almost everybody in Chinese society.
>
>In any culture, women have been treated like dirt for a long time.

In a given Latin American country, one might even find a husband who
gunned down his wife with a lover on the scene and go free with a
defense of his honor argument in court.  But then again, Latin American
countries may not do any part of superior Western culture, of Judeo
Christian traditions so much loved tortuously by D.Joe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american