HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: safe place inside
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:48:20 GMT

In article <By6uGu.JDA@twwells.com> anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker) writes:
>Thanks for welcoming me to the net. I have learned a lot
>already. 
>
>My counselor told me that the abusers had done such a good
>job on me that they no longer needed to be in my life. I
>have taken over their role. Some of you pointed out to 
>me that I was being too hard on myself too (thanks esp. Sherri).
>

Thanks, I'm glad some of my words were helpful :)

>I have always been looking for someone else to make a safe 
>space for me in which I can grow ... but first I need to
>make it safe for me inside myself. If someone else said and 
>did to me the things I do to myself, I could have them arrested
>and charged with abuse.
>

Then you really have learned a lot already :-)

>I have seen all of the stuff about positive
>self-statements and affirmations, but I never connected with
>it. I think I saw my self-abuse as *being honest*. After all, I
>thought I was defective and deserving of abuse. A precursor to
>growth is to recognize where you are...etc., poppycock.
>

Self-hate really knows how to justify it's existence.  My therapist and
I deal with this issue a lot, and I'm not sure I understand all of
what she's telling me, but I'll try.  First is when you get thoughts
like "If you're honest you'll see that you let it happen" or (common
one for me) "You're just using this so-called 'painful' past as an
excuse for your laziness that keeps you from ever accomplishing anything",
it is important to recognize that what is occurring is not really
a thought or an idea but a feeling.  As a feeling, it's existence
needs to be acknowledged, but getting caught up in weighing exactly
what aspects of the abuse we could have stopped if we'd had any courage or
what things we should have accomplished by now...all of that is an
endless cycle that justs leaves us feeling hopeless and desolate.  And
it's treating a thought like a feeling.  It's also important to realize
that giving ourselves a break from this sort of emotional self-abuse
is not tantamount to giving up on growth.  In fact, it's turning away
from a feeling that will always lead to immobilisation.  This sort
of self-hate does not lead to growth or accomplishment because it
keeps your entire mind occupied with how much you've fucked up everything
you've ever wanted to do.  Feelings should never occupy you're entire
mind.  A feelings sources can be traced, but the feeling itself can
never be fully dissected and understood.  It just doesn't have that
sort of existence--truth is irrelevant to it.

>Anyway, I have made a promise to myself to pay attention when
>something hurts; to ask myself what I need and to act on
>it; and to stop abusing myself. I need safe place inside before
>I can heal.
>
>I love myself now, but haven't learned how nurture myself.
>
>-Seeker 
>(changed from seeker because I deserve a capital S)
>
Yes, you certainly do deserve the capital...

Take care,

Sherri
From: anon-1218@twwells.com (Anika)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: response to ed
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:38:17 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes



20-Nov-92 17:58	fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)	Re: response to ed

>So either this phrase wasn't in public news in the last month, or it
>wasn't in this newsgroup, or the post has been cancelled, or my search
>methods are faulty.

Bingo to the first. It was more than a month ago. (And we're *still* bitching!
Sheesh!)

Thanks for the effort, though.

			Anika



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re:  does anybody want ME?
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:51:26 GMT

In article <1e4hj5INNnvt@agate.berkeley.edu> werner@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.180353.60856@cc.usu.edu> slccy@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>You can't be special to anybody until you are special to yourself.
>
>[good advice about getting help deleted.]
>
>>We do love you.  You've just got to love yourself.
>
>(I don't mean this as a flame at the author; the advice was pretty good.)
>
>I'm wondering what other people's emotional reactions are to phrases
>like "You've just got to love yourself."  My brain almost always
>translates them into "It's all your fault.  Get a life.  Lighten up."
>And so on.  I usually end up feeling worse, often a lot worse, even
>though the people who say these things probably mean well.  Am I the
>only one who does this?

I'd tend to resist any statement that starts with "You've just got to",
especially if it's something I don't know how to do. 

Offhand, I think that statements that include "just" (in the sense of
"merely") can be translated as "I want you to change, but I don't
want to acknowledge that you're making the choices.".

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu

>
>-- 
>--
>John Werner                        werner@soe.berkeley.edu
>UC Berkeley School of Education    510-642-9651
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Greetings
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:20:30 -0600
Distribution: world

In article <722090210snx@russia>  writes:
>I am going to post this with my name, because I am now, not affraid
>of anyone knowing what I've done.  I would ask that I not be slammed 
>...

A very brave thing to do. Thanks.
Keep up the good work.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: response to ed
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:58:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.201702.18385@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>Funny, back about a year ago, when I was really active in ASAR, I
>thought we hashed out the fine points of the topic that led to Ed's
>raging article.  We found:
>
>1) that no known organized religion, including any branch of paganism or
>satanism (other than possibly those linked to Dianetics and the followers
>of Charles Manson and L.Ron Hubbard) were involved in ritual abuse;

I'm afraid this thread must have been before I started reading asar -
what is the story about Dianetics?  Is there reason to believe they
are involved in ritual abuse?  I have sort of a vague impression that
they are a cult, or at least cult-like, and I'd really like to find
out, because my chiropractor mentioned that he's a member and tried to
encourage me to check it out, and now I don't think I want to go back
there.  And he diid a really good job on my back...

-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: hello
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:58:54 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <Bxxqxr.5zz@twwells.com>, anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
writes:
>I got the following letter in my email account today from my counselor's
>secretary.
>
>** Forwarded Message from [my counselor's secretary] **

<Memo deleted for bandwidth's sake>

>[signed]
>
>** End of letter
>
>Now I know I have grounds for a formal complaint.  This discussion should be
>between my counselor and me, and NOBODY else should be involved, NOT EVEN HIS
>SECRETARY!!!
>
>I wrote a letter back to the secretary telling her that she should tell my
>counselor this is definitely a breach of my confidentiality-- basically what
>I just said right above.
>
>I'm just curious (not that it *really* matters, considering the other things
>he's done).  Do you think it's unprofessional that my counselor has his
>secretary check his email account?  On the form I filled out before my first
>session, there was a question that asked whether or not I could be contacted
>by email?  For a doctor to have his secretary notify patients they can't make
>the meeting might be one thing, but to have his secretary take dictation on a
>letter regarding things that happened in the sessions is completely wrong,
>IMO.

Not only is it highly unprofessional for a counselor to do that, I'd seriously
consider contacting an attorney about now...

(But that's me, you may have a different reaction, but I think you definately
have grounds for a lawsuit.  I hope you kept a copy of the letter you sent, and
will keep a copy of the letter you receive...)

---
Krikket (a.k.a. Doug Krick)  ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
3 Danada Square East #246    ---  #include<std.disclaimers>
Wheaton, Il 60187  U.S.A.    ---  #include<e.hugs>

My name in Inigo Montoya, you killed my father.  Prepare to die!
From: anon-1259@twwells.com (Kate)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: to rick--about drugs
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:13:59 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

Hi everyone, I haven't posted in awhile because: a) I've been ultra-busy and
I mean ULTRA.  I had no idea my last semester would be so jam-packed of stuffs
and b) I've been doing pretty badly lately and haven't had the coherency to 
know what to say.

But I thought I would share some thoughts about the whole drug-thread because
I've taken a few over the last few years.

The first time I went on anti-depressants was in highschool.  They gave me
Pamelor (a tricyclic) and it turned my life around in a major way.  I was
elated all the time, it felt so great.  I never thought it would have such a
great effect.  And when  I started it, i was in the pits.  I had attempted
suicide twice and been in therapy for awhile and nothing seemed to work. 
Of course, then no one knew the source of my problems.  So that was a great
experience.  About 2 years later I was depressed again and wanted to go back
on it and it really had the opposite effect.  I did not feel better at all.
It was very frustrating---has anyone else had that experience when the same
medication can work one time and not another?

So then I tried Prozac but that never did any good.  Well, while I was in the
hospital in Denver, I was diagnosed as bipolar (in addition to MPD---lovely)
and was put on lithium.   It helped my manic episodes (which was the major
problem) by bringing both mood extremes closer together.  Thus, my good moods
weren't that great anymore, but at least i wasn't bouncing off the walls,
climbing the furniture and in general making the nurses REALLY nervous. 
:)
Anyway, I went off that (and the prozac) in may of this year.  Well, lately
I've been having MAJOR mood swings like suicidal and cutting for an hour
and elated and motivated the next hour and then back again.  I decided maybe
it was time to get back on Lithium so I could just get through the next 
few weeks which are going to be hell. But the doctor thought that it would
take too long to take effect and so gave me Wellbutrin instead (an anti-dep)
Anyone else had this one? 
So far it seems to be helping--I haven't gotten out my supply of  drugs to 
OD on in a few days anyway.  

I don't know what my point was in writing this but .... there it is.
*sheesh*
:)
oh well.
bye
Kate
m


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: rbn@sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: Group Therapy
Organization: Here & Now
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:40:24 GMT

Anon-1366 @ twwells.com:

I tried to reply to you via email but was unable to get through -- the
message I sent was bounced back to me.

If you are interested / willing to receive email from me please let me
know by a followup to this post, or you can send me email.


--
----

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1218@twwells.com (Anika)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Recovery Goals?
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:25:41 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes




Hi all. Hope everyone doesn't blow by this post because of my other stuff. I
was afraid to post the recent stuff because I feared that I wouldn't be able
to work the more emotional stuff here. That was sort of substantiated by some
who expressed that they felt I was farther along in recovery than they were.
I'd like to think I'm almost through this terrifying recovery, but then I
acknowledge that I don't have most of my memories, and I'm playing with some
really scary pieces... Anyway, I'm not as tough as I can sound.

I was having a recent conversation with a friend of mine about this weird
analogy/thought I came up with...


	I walked over a sewer
	grating and thought of King's book "IT" and found myself wondering...
	If the story had been finished when they were children, and there was
	no need to remember it, which one would be the one who had really
	recovered from it? The one who avoided sewer grates, or the one who
	always walked by them and looked to make sure nothing was coming back?
	Seems to me we should never forget what happened. Maybe your case is
	different. Seems like it is. But if those of us with the childhood 
	memories think we're healed when we cease thinking about it, who will
	be the guardian of our children? Who will be willing to look at the
	situtation truthfully and say, "That is abuse?" If we put it behind
	us completely, won't we be unwilling to see it if it returns?
	(For those who don't know, the evil thing in "IT" comes through the
	sewer gratings and was often visible, only no one ever looked.)

My friend is also a survivor, by the way, but he never repressed the memory of
the abuse which happened to him at a later date. (Hence the childhood memory
comment.) His response was that no one in the above example is recovered. The
only one who's recovered is the one who can walk over the sewer grating and
not think about it.

What do you guys think? (Feel free to make another analogy if this one doesn't
work for you.) Thinking about my goals in this recovery business is new to me.
It never seemed possible I'd make it through, much less have goals about it,
but do you guys have any opinion on the optimal way to view this in the
future? Right now I'm not sure.

Thanks!
							Anika



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: Recovery Goals?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:17:45 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Anika (anon-1218@twwells.com) wrote:
: 
: Hi all. Hope everyone doesn't blow by this post because of my other
: stuff.

I can't think of one of your messages which would make me not want to
read posts from you ...

As for the grating analogy, it seems to me that perhaps in the case of
IT it might be appropriate to learn to not let grates affect me, but
if so it would be because I KNEW that IT was not going to ever return
(and nothing like it either).

I think that abuse is so prevalent in our culture that it would be
terrible if I learned to ignore the warning signs, just because I
have survived myself.  In fact, chances are I would not "survive",
since I would be very likely to end up in abusive relationships, and
be/become a victim all over again.

To me, recovery is not letting the past CONTROL my life, but learning
from what happened so that I can make the world I live in better, by
resisting abuse any way that I can.

I guess an example of the difference might help.  I find just now that
when ever I hear kids scream, the first thing that comes to mind is
"someone is abusing that kid."  When I stop and listen and think, I
often realize that it is actually kids playing outside, and they like
to scream (or squeal, or what ever).  However, it isn't always as
obvious as that, and I don't want to forget that children screaming or
crying can be a warning that abuse is happening.  I just want to learn
that screaming and crying don't always mean abuse.

I guess in terms of the analogy, for me recovery is knowing that
grates CAN be a source of danger, but to have a reasonable estimation
of the likelihood that they will be.


Doug Sojourner

dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
anon-1158@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re:  does anybody want ME?
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:57:10 GMT

This seems like a good place to recommend _Jolted Sober_ by Sylvia Cary.
It's about sudden cures and changes for the better. (It's also the
first book on recovery with signifigant new material that I've
seen in ages.)

The general idea is that people frequently have a very important moment
in which they realize that they can behave differently. (And that this
moment has mostly been ignored by academic studies.)

She gets into different methods of encouraging that moment to happen
and methods of maintaining it.

Nancy Lebovitz
nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu  
:
From: rlhg3295@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Robert  Howerton)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: greetings
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:06:55 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

slccy@cc.usu.edu writes:

>ANON-name - Hide-and-Seek

>Hello,

>I am new to this newsgroup.  I haven't even known about news for very long.  I
>am female and a little scared.  My name, Hide-and-Seek is due to the fact that
>I'm still hiding from the fact that I was abused.  I am one of seven girls and
>all have been abused.  I didn't talk about it for over nine years, and for the
>most part, I blocked it out of my memory.  My father abused us all and scared
>us into thinking that our Mom would die if we ever told her about it.  Does
>this sound familiar to anyone??  Or am I alone again?

>My mind has stored all memories, except a startling few, behind a large locked
>door and two halves of my brain are struggling for the key. I don't know if I
>want to remeber it all or just let it be.  I can't talk to anybody because it
>is still a secret in our family.  My father was never prosecuted and the abuse
>continued.  My mother refuses to see what happened to all of us.  I don't know
>if I should hate them both or if my mother was just ignorant.

>I can't see a professional because I am only 18 and don't have any money and my
>parents won't pay for it.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Can anyone relate
>to this??

>		Hide-and-Seek
I am new to this group too.  I am writing in on my husband's account.  You
can get help through local mental health boards, planned parenthood, a 
school counselor.  Yes you      want to remember and get help.  ONe period
of forgetting always comes back and affects the rest of your life in ways
I never would have understood.  I have to go now but don't give up and don't
feel like a loser or feel shamed.  I am 31 years old and now very fearful
about what the risks are for children.  You need to get out of the situation
if it's still going on.  Good luck!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: 890575h@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHELE L. HILTON)
Subject: FAQ/books help
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:50:58 GMT

Hi.
I know this is a FAQ but I am very inexperienced with newsnets, so if anyone 
has time I have two questions, actually:
1) Can anyone give me a list of *first-person narratives* written by 
survivors?
2) Can anyone tell me how to access a FAQ file, if there is one?

Thanks a lot. E-mail is welcome at 890575H@ace.acadiau.ca

Michele Hilton
From: anon-1325@twwells.com (Solace)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: anon-1432, your email is turned off.
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:17:41 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I forget your name, but you wrote me and my reply got bounced back because
your email is turned off. You will have to turn it on to receive anon-email.
	Solace



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From: koepp@cc1.unt.edu (Cynthia Koepp - Computing Center)
Subject: resources
Organization: Computing Center, UNT
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:01:09 GMT

While I was supposed to be doing a school project, I came across this 
information, and thought I would post it.  Some of it may be listed in the 
new update of _The Courage to Heal_ bibliography.

_USA Today_ Thursday August 27, 1992 carried a story about a woman, Margot 
Silk Forrest, who is a survivor and is publishing a monthly newsletter 
called "The Healing Woman."  The article states that the newsletter includes 
articles about recovery, profiles of survivors, news of court decisions, and 
reviews. Survivors are encouraged to write. Subscription price is $25 a 
year ($15--low income) and the address given is: The Healing Woman, P.O. Box 
3038, Moss Beach, California 94038; (415) 728-0339.


_Washington Times_ Tuesday May 12, 1992 carried a story called "Survival 
After Incest Victims Can Learn to Master Their Painful Memories of Abuse 
Inflicted By Family Members."   One person interviewed for the article is 
Mrs. Kimberly Crnich. She is a survivor and also a lawyer in Oregon. One way 
that she coped with her abuse was by writing a book with her husband 
Joseph.  The book is called _Shifting the Burden of Truth: Suing Child 
Sexual Abusers--A Legal Guide for Survivors and Their Supporters_ by 
Kimberly and Joseph Crnich.  It is available through Recollex Publishing 
Inc.  Write to 333 State Street, Suite 326; Lake Oswego, Oregon, 97034; 
(800) 356-9315.


You all may know about this, but I thought it was just such a powerful 
statement that I'll mention it. (I found out about it through V.O.I.C.E.S. 
_The Chorus_.)  _Lear's_ magazine in February 1992 carried a major piece on 
the topic of incest.  They offered to mail out reprints of this large 
article, and were indundated by requests. Francis Lear, the magazine's 
founder, was herself a victim. (I  sent reprints to area hospitals and a few 
therapists.)  Many academic libraries might not carry _Lear's_, 
but I'd guess most public libraries would.

That's it...I am in library school, so I had better go do my "real" homework.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery