HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Ismailism and Sindh
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:52:37 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1992Aug25.202334.25408@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
>There were significant conversions to Ismailism in Sindh as early as the
>10th century... to the extent that Ismailism was the state religion of
>Multan. It was Mahmud Ghaznavi who, after conquering Multan, killed thousands
>of Ismaili's. Let me quote this paragraph from "Religion and Society in Arab
>Sindh", by E.J. Brill (1989). For simplicity, I'm ignoring the lunar years
>and references mentioned in the original text.
>

I'm sorry.. I forgot to give the author's name... Derryl N. Maclean (McGill
University).

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: Re: Blasphemy [was: Islam a fascist ....]
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:15:39 GMT

In article <l9nigvINN409@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan
Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.011217.2201@cco.caltech.edu>
asim@heckle.ugcs.caltech.edu (A. M. Mughal) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug24.212047.408@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu
(Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> >>
> :: How can you define BLASPHEMY in islam ?
> ::
> :	Probably the same way one would define an insult- a guess...
> :
> :Asim Mughal
> 
> The only conceptual difference between the law of blasphemy in Islam 
> and for instance, libel laws in USA, is that whereas USA laws can only
> be applied to "living" people, Islamic laws also cover those who are
> dead.
> 
> 


I was hoping to see someone actually spell out the precise "Islamic" law
on blasphemy (with the necessary proof obviously :).

Thanx.

--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: Islam a fascist ... NOT!
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:19:20 GMT

In article <25AUG199217420986@juliet.caltech.edu>, mughal@juliet.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug25.220138.13867@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes...

|>      1. Blasphemy is not poorly defined
|>      2. I don't know if blasphemy deserves death, what do you think?
|> 

IMO, the answer to 2. is a definite NO. 


|> >seem to be no better than khomeni. 
|> 
|>      Is that a compliment?

Depends on how you take it. 


|>      I don't know it 'must' be carried out by followers or not but they
|>      can probably point it out, at least.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>      We can still co-exist and be tolerant of others' viewpoint even if it 
|>      is different from one's own, methinks :)
|> 

Not if you intend to point out your views by HANGING the other person !!

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: afzaal@mace.cc.purdue.edu (S. Afzaal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Multiple Wives etc
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:06:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University

Rukhsana Merchant writes:

>A second point is that men are not able to deal with past relationships
>of women, no matter their own past relationships.  It is not in man's
>nature to share his wife with another.  

That is a great generalization. I am sure we know exceptions to the
above. There are many men  who are either involved or married
to women who have already been in relationships. It is more
common in this culture perhaps than the Pakistani culture but it in no
way indicates that it is something in `man's nature'.  Perhaps
it is something more cultural.  Of course there are always
feeling of envy  and pain when another person  is involved. Most of us  know 
that a woman also experiences the  shattering pain when the man she loves is involved
with someone else. It is an incredibly difficult emotional
experience. Honestly Rukhsana, is it in your nature to 
share someone you may be  inlove with with another woman??.  
I don't think this nature business explains polygamy in 
Islam at all. What I am surprised at is that it is coming
from a woman.  I don't think it is anymore a woman's nature to 
share the man she loves than it is a man's nature. If you have seen
a woman go through such an experience, some one close to you,
you know what I am talking  about. 
 

Rukhsana Merchant also writes:

>The obligations and duties may not be identical but they also best
>suit the nature of each of the sexes.  Trying to say that Islam is 
>sexist because something given to one sex is not given to the other
>is not correct because there are benefits given to one that are
>not given to the other and visa versa.  They have different obligations
>and rights but there is equality.

I  agree with you there. But things like religion are a matter
of faith and not explained logically. Equality is a very shady
term in such a complex situation. IT is almost a buzz word without
much meaning.  Read Sura-tu-Nissa and tell me
that men and women are equal. It clearly states that men have a
degree higher than women. Where does it talk about equality???
When it comes to explaining a religious commandment  which  doesn't
quite make sense to us , we  can explain it  
logically in terms of its social benifits if we  like. Everything
has its explaination if you look for it.  

Sunia Afzaal
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: the terminator part n : )
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:13:17 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <1992Sep1.230819.11234@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> alam@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ALAM AFSHAN) writes:
>azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>>	   On the contrary, a hard man is easy to find, and so is a good
>but the combination? man that is *hard* er difficult to find:)

>>man. The problem is that they don't say good (and hard) for too long
>>after one finds them. Unfortunately, shooting terminates good (and

>i'd ask why not. but this newsgp is g-rated. wouldnt wanna corrupt innocent
>minds :)

	   I did not say anything that was not g-rated, did I? I was just
commenting on basic goodness, which is something we would like our
kids to do, and strength of materials issue related to kids as well
(if ever so indirectly).

>ah.and then rigor mortis sets in.mayb thats the soln to longterm hardness
>+ gdness(ever known a copse to marry again or do other rotten stuff?) 

	   Very valid point! Are you suggesting some women express a desire
to shoot their men - rigor mortis is the only way to get them hard.
Women, women, women, they are much more loving ways to achieve better
results. 

	   Salman [this is not me; someone is using my account] Azhar



-- 
"To have loved and lost is better than to have won.... For, the burden
of victory has to be shouldered throughout life, and all losses rest
easy in the insatiable abyss called grave." 
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar CS Dept Duke U  azhar@cs.duke.edu
From: r3po@spectrx.saigon.com (r3po)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ABCDs
Keywords: be
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 00:05:42 PDT
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca

sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:

> 
> Religion, race, national orgin, extra serves a solid
> foundation for basis of a new identity. Many of them 
> think Islam gives them this unique identity, others
> think of national origin, etc. I think that the 
> problem may be same for Pakistani-americans or Indian-americans.
> 
> I think people should feel confident about themselves.
> This country allows people to be whatever they want to be, we
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> should use that. We should not over-do our nationality thing
> 

oh really?!

you mean I can run for president?
can i even dream of even nominated if am a non-white (or a women)?
can i enter the "national security board game"? 
can i criticise some fanatics (who happen to be on the other side) and
  get away with it?
can i enter the circle of top executives in any fortune 500s (actually
  i can, if i have 10 times the talent of a white executive)
can i possibly have any control over the media?

but of course, I can be WHATEVER I want to be .... AS LONG AS it does
not have any "security" threat to the elites

aahh...just giving you hard time, naveed.  dont take it seriously

-r3po  

(I am NOT a leftist. Actually, I live in the center of the Universe.
 Why, the whole universe is expanding with its center at the point where
  I stand. Send a self adressed envelop if you want a mathematical 
  proof for this (and you better brush up your tensor notation))


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
r3po@spectrx.saigon.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: Is Hinduism equal to Intolearnce and Fascism ?
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:57:45 GMT

Sridhar Vasudevan <svasudev@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> in forms me that
there is no evidence that Hindu priests supported Hitler. In view of the
fact that I have only heard of this verbally through some sources, I would
like to withdraw this statement from my previous article.


My article was infact a rhetorical statement designed to confront
the originator of the thread of articles with a reversal of his
own theme. The hope was that he would see the folly of generalising
from a few events to the whole of Islam and all Muslims.

My respect for the large body Hindus remains unaltered.

-Nadeem Malik
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: blue eyes shine ice
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:25:18 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <715270878@lear.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>	*   Given the choice, I would rather have all three
>	*   I have been choice

   Please read  as "* I have been give a choice". :-)

>	*   Hence, I would opt for all three :-)
>
>	   Salman [in vacant and pensive mood] Azhar

	   Salman [seemed more vacant than pensive back there] Azhar
-- 
"To have loved and lost is better than to have won.... For, the burden
of victory has to be shouldered throughout life, and all losses rest
easy in the insatiable abyss called grave." 
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar CS Dept Duke U  azhar@cs.duke.edu
From: vali@bu-pub.bu.edu (Vali Uddin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: TestIII
Keywords: ASDF
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:24:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University


aliycgbliwdvblwevb.erf
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Re: How do you Muslims think?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:50:34 GMT

In 27594 Mr. Adil "The Judge" writes:

>Article 27594 in soc.culture.pakistan:
>From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
>Subject: Re: How do you Muslims think?
>Date: 27 Aug 92 07:41:27 GMT
>Organization: University Of Wollongong
>Lines: 15
>
>onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:

>>Conclusion:	This world is too messed up!
>>			but there is hope!

>>omar.farooq@att.com



>And your thoughts are too messed up!
>Buth there is no hope to modify it!


>Bye
>Adil (the Judge)


Thanx for the vote of confidence brother!


Regards
Omar Farooq

(Freud: One must be careful about remarks when describing others, for
        they often reveal one's own hidden facet).
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas)
Subject: Re: ABCDs
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 02:42:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.191326.8346@leland.Stanford.EDU> usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.174331.23608@ucunix.san.uc.edu> mg819306@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod) writes:
>>The ABCDs I have come across here in the US happen to be extremely
>>fanatical, one wonders why?  The Indian hindus I have met want
>>India to be a Hindu state, also for the temple for Ayodhia, most
>>of the material and finance was sent from abroad.  The Sikh terrorists
>>who are fighting for an independent Sikh state are supported mainly from
>>Sikhs settled in Canada.  The Pakistani ABCDs are always harping of
>>the brotherhood of Islam, for them nothing else matters and they support the
>>cause of an Islamic state, more strongly than other Pakistanis. 
>>In my experience in India the temple is a very small issue.  The BJP
>>has fought for the temple and could not come in power, whereas the 
>>Janta Dal, an extremely new party came into power on the corruption
>>issue.  And now the Congress I is in power their plank is secularism.
>>Thus my conclusion is that Indian ABCDs have lost all touch with the
>>happenings in India.  Is this also true about Pakistani ABCDs?
>>And also here in the US where the ABCDs are always in contact with 
>>different cultures, so what makes them narrow minded?
>>
>>Manoj
>
>ABCD's fall into two categories.  

not necessarily so.

>
>1-  Totally embarrassed about their ethnicity, try to assimmilate
>at all costs.  Embrace everything western unequivocally.

I have met people like this. They think they are much more superior to the
desis that have kept much of the culture (referring to pakistan). They also 
look down on the unwise, naive types who value religion. Hell I know one who
labels any religious muslim as an Arab. Bechare chote dimagh ab bardhe ho gai.
But I have one word for these type of people, "a**holes".

>
>2-  Feel like an outsider in an alien society.  Put themselves
>into a cocoon, deny their environment, and cling to archaic 
>conservative values imparted by elders wanting to recreate their 
>childhood atmosphere.

I have seen many like this. Don't think they deny their environment, however
I have noticed the kinds of friends they have and for the most part they are
not WASP's. If they have any American friends, they will be african-american.
They will have some desi friends but not too many because even though they are
desi, they have a tough time relating to the true desi ways, so they will be
selective in that as well.

>
>Dissent?
>yes. You can not categorize anyone completely.

zafar

>Usman
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: the terminator part n : )
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:21:38 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <2SEP199200193448@iago.caltech.edu> mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
>     Question,okay, when men die (after doing good deeds) they will 
>     	(hopefully) get these gorgeous women-like creatures but what 
>     	about women, what do they get in 'thereafter'? Long time back
>     	someone mentioned they will get their husbands, in that case,
>     	those poor husbands won't end up with hoors but with their
>        own earthly wives, is that good or bad? (poor guys- Why marry then?) :)

	   To the best of my understanding the promise is to have
uninitiated mates for both men and women. Some interpretors have
claimed that that mean hoors = women only. However, there are
uninitiated males around - albiet fewer :-) - and the concept of
"virginity" does not apply to women only. So, SCP-girlz-n-the-hood
have something to look forward to. :-)

>       Yet another theories says, 'good women' will be transformed into
>       hoors? but still 70:1 ratio would instantly kill a guy from Caltech 
>       who is probably used to 1:7 odds againt him ;) 
>Asim Mughal

	   I see no contradiction. Being a hoor does not debar one from
intimacy with another hoor (of opposite gender). Strange as it may
sound to typical males, women actually enjoy intimacy, and often more 
thoroughly than men. So, being a hoor is not such a bummer. :-) In
fact, I would not mind being a male hoor.... Just think of all those
good-natured women I can hang around with - women who earned paradise.
If I were a woman, then still I would not mind being a hoor... think
of all those men (like dsqa - inshallah) in paradise.

dsqa


-- 
"To have loved and lost is better than to have won.... For, the burden
of victory has to be shouldered throughout life, and all losses rest
easy in the insatiable abyss called grave." 
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar CS Dept Duke U  azhar@cs.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: alt.urdu.poetry
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:09:51 GMT

>Hi guys;
>
>How about creating a new group "alt.urdu.poetry" for 
>all urdu lovers.
>
>
>If there is sufficient interest, we should go ahead
>and do it.
>
>
>Ali
>.
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ali Haveliwala					  ali_haveliwala@mentorg.com	
>
-----------------------------

That sounds like a good idea to me!  
There is a PSAIemail directory which is available from bhuttam@woods.ulowell.edu
He's the PSAI Email Committee Coordinator.  He has an extensive list of
Pakistanis on the net, in case there is need for voting or getting support
to create the new group.

If you can't get a hold of him, let me know, and I'll mail the directory
to your email directly.

Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.rights.human
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Subject: Re: blue eyes shine ice
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:38:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.030355.16495@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, bholu@nyx.cs.du.edu (  Bholu) writes...
>In article <714854830@flounder.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Sa
>man [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>>....
>>	   Gimme dark eyes, black hair, and a heart of gold
>>	   And, forever, my friend, I wont ask you for anymore
>>
>That's one hell of a surgical operation you are asking for my dear :).
> 
>--
>Dark blackish eyes and raven hair can be captivating, even if the heart
>is merely organic.

	ah well, sigh, it is rumored, blue eyes & red hair can be
	fascinating too, irrespective of the materialistic properties of
	a heart, on occasions.

Asim Mughal

[Standard Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: bholu@nyx.cs.du.edu (  Bholu)
Subject: Blasphemy, fascism, multiple wives, visas and drives
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 04:08:00 GMT

Sorry folks I have changed my mind and will postpone my brilliant
exposition (covering all of the topics given in the subject line)
to a later date. My sincere apologies to those who had psyched themselves
up at the prospect of getting hold of yet another opportunity to indulge
in some carefree bashing. Instead a portion of a nazm by Ibn-e-Insha` is
being reproduced. Try hitting the n-key or the roof or someone within
striking distance if you feel that reading the poem would be insufficient
to help you wind down.



tum uss laRki ko daikhtay ho?
tum uss laRki ko jantay ho?
woh ujli gori? nahiN nahiN
woh mast chakori? nahiN nahiN
woh jiss ka kurta neela hai?
woh jiss ka aaNchal peela hai?
woh jiss ki aaNkh pay chashma hai?
woh jiss kay maathay teeka hai?

un sab say alag un sab say paray
woh ghaass pay neechay bayloN kay
kia gole matole sa chehra hai
jo har dam haNsta rehta hai
kuchH chitvan haiN albaylay say
kuchH uss kay nain nasheelay say
iss waqt magar sowchoN mayN magan
woh saaNvli soorat ki naagan
kia bay-khabrana baiThi hai
yeh geet ussi ka darpan haiN
yeh geet hamara jeevan haiN
ham iss naagan kay gha`il thay
ham iss kay dar kay sa`il thay

jab sh'ayr hamaray sunti thee
khamoash dowpaTTa chunti thee
jab vehshat ussay sataati thee
kia hirni si ban jaati thee
yeh jitnay basti valay thay
iss chanchal kay matvalay thay
iss ghar mayN kitnay saaloN ki
thee baiThak chahnay valoN ki
go pyar ki ganga behti thee
woh naar yeh ham say kehti thee
yeh loag tow mehez saharay haiN
insha` ji ham tow tumharay haiN
ab aur kissi ki chaahat ka
karti hai bahaana----baiThi hai
.
.
.
woh kal bhi milnay aa`i thee
woh aaj bhi milnay aa`i hai
jo apni nahiN para`i hai
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam: Difference b/w blasphemy and Criticizm
From: jamalin@watt.ccs.tuns.ca
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:57:37 AST

In article <la4ru5INNir8@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.003744.13599@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali) writes:
> :In article <l9qokhINN6ut@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> ::
> ::In Islam, an "act" is considered "criminal" if its commission
> ::results in the violation of some right of the "affectee".
> :
> :I assume you mean the right as defined by Islam... which may be considered
> :some what arbitrary by many. 
> :
> 
> Well let's see how you define "rights"?
> 
> By your logic of relativity, even the "bill of rights" is as arbitrary!

What utter nonsense, Irfan bhai!! My understanding of rights has nothing to 
do with this debate. And btw, why did you have to skip the more detailed part 
of my posting and comment on this remark alone.... I've seen bad losers.... 
you're the worst..

Give me the source of Islam's definition of rights. The rights as defined
by democracies are arrived at as a result of consensus... Where does Islam's
definition of rights come from....... God??? 

Nadeem
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: ISLAMIC BROTERHOOD - BOSNIA V/S SOMALIA
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:20:51 GMT


On all culture news groups flag bearer of islam have posted
messages after messages deploring sitaution in Bosnia.  Who 
is  helping   in    Bosnia?   Muslims states - NO.   Muslim 
Fundamentalists all around the world are getting hoarse crying 
for Bosnia and Islam. Islam is in DANGER once more (it was 
in Gulf war before) for these fundamentlists. Who are they 
cursing for not helping - WEST? Why the hell should WEST help 
these fundamentlists who will go tomorrow planting bombs in 
western planes and threatening Salman Rushdie and likes
with death threats at flimsiest grounds? West is under
no obligation to help. It SHOULD NOT get involved. But
west is still helping out of goodwill.

But what is happening to Somalia which has 99 percent
(compared just 30 percent population in Bosnia) *BLACK* 
MUSLIMS who are dying by THOUSANDS every day (compared
to less than few hundred in a war for which Bosnian themselves
are equally responsible) with most cruel death caused by 
starvation and hunger.  Who is helping them? Muslim States - NO.
It is the west that is helping in Somalia once again
even though they are under no obligation to do.
What happended to Islamic "Red Crescent"? Or Black
muslims are disposable commodity? Why don't these islamic 
fundamentlists collect money for Somalia which is more in 
despearte need than any one else on this earth?. Why are
the islamic governments of IRAN ,Pakistan, Bangladesh who
are all very vocal on Bosnia supply food and medicine
to Somalia or Islamic Brotherhood just stops at the gate
of Africa.

That only tells about total HYPOCRACY Of ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD
and ISLAMIC Equality.

Regards,

bkumar