HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: "Love" Triangle
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:52:45 GMT
Reply-To: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: Software Technology Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.234150.2204496@locus.com>, judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug17.233733.17080@cco.caltech.edu> hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough) writes:
|> >
|> >The problem with this seemingly sensible approach is that, as others have
|> >pointed out, the choices seem to be between getting taken advantage of
|> >or leaving very young children to a lousy fate.  
|> > [ details of similar situation deleted for space]
|> >One thing my husband and I talked about doing was contacting social welfare
|> >authorities.  If the family situation really is that dysfunctional, maybe
|> >intervention is warranted.  We never did have the guts to go through with
|> >it, though. 
|> 
|> Wait!  Stop!  There is another alternative.  Perhaps the family simply needs
|> educating.  We have a similar family in our social circle.  The mom is great,
|> but the Dad is still just a big kid - a great kind-hearted man but with very
|> little parental common sense.  Here is how we are working with them.

[Lots of useful suggestions deleted]

I heartily recommend the book "Finding Our Fathers" (can't recall the author
right now, but would be glad to find it for anyone interested).  The author
is a Clinical Phycologist and professor at a University.  His book is based
upon his own experience and hundreds of similar cases he has dealt with
during the last decade.  The basic premise of the author (who used to practice
fathering methods similar to those described), is that many men carry within
themselves an image of a wounded or uncommunicative father.  When they have 
children, this brings out all sorts of feelings that they: 1) never dealt 
with in their childhood, 2) didn't know existed and cause confusion, 3) don't
know how to handle because their fathers never dealt with them.

The typical reaction for most men with this image of fatherhood is rage,
either expressed or suppressed.  They can't deal with the feelings, and
just feel angry.  This person probably feels that something is wrong, but
he just can't figure out how to stop it. 

The book offers many good insights into the causes and the techniques one
can use to heal the image and relationship with the father, allowing a
man to confidently move forward in their own fatherhood.

I read it through twice.  It has helped me reconcile my image of my father
with the kind of father I always wanted to be (but somehow always fell
short).  I intend to give a copy to every male parent I know when they
have their first son.

Steven (sjk@strl.labs.tek.com)

"Sometimes if you have a cappuccino and then try again it will work OK."
(Dr. Brian Reid)  "Sometimes one cappuccino isn't enough." (Marcus Ranum)
"A double vanilla latte always works."  (Me)
From: demartinib@cpva.saic.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: twins birth announcement
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:34:14 PST
Organization: Science Applications Int'l Corp./San Diego

I'm very proud to announce the birth of my niece and nephew this morning!

           Lauren Taylor DeMartini, 4 lb. 8 oz.  9:15 AM  08/19/92
                    		and                                                            
           Ryan Thomas DeMartini, 5 lb. 2 oz.  8:45 AM  08/19/92

Both babies, my brother, and his wife are doing great.
POOF! Instant family! :-)

Brenda DeMartini
SAIC, San Diego CA
From: rrt@mpd.tandem.com (Robert Teisberg)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Whole milk verses 2%
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:50:29 GMT
Reply-To: rrt@amadeus.UUCP (Robert Teisberg)
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Aug17.223921.25900@mdd.comm.mot.com> nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson) writes:
>In article <2219@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> rrt@amadeus.UUCP (Robert Teisberg) writes:
>>milk won't make him fat; it will help to make him smart.
>
>I resent this! My daughter had breast milk and then SOY formula.
>I doubt very much that she would be any smarter had she had cows milk.

Sorry, I intended no offense.  Some of my wording was intended to be
tongue-in-cheek, but I see on re-reading my post that my smiley ratio
was insufficient.
-- 
Bob Teisberg @ Tandem Computers, Inc. | rrt@mpd.tandem.com
14231 Tandem Blvd.                    | (512) 244-8119
Austin, Texas  78728                  |
Any resemblance to the opinions of a real person or corporation is concidental.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: negative attitudes towards breast-feeding
Keywords: not always
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:58:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.220307.10100@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz> kerry@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz (Kerry Dalley) writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.175930.15596@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
>>
>>Funny reading these stories about negative attitudes towards
>>breast-feeding.  Why funny?  Because I've never experienced it.
>>I am expecting my first and plan to breast feed.  All the women in
>>my family breast-fed.  My sister breast-fed all of her 3, in public
>>with no problems or negative attitudes.  In fact, I would find it
>>"strange" for a new mother not to breast feed or attempt it.
>
>
>GOOD ON YOU!! 8-)  That's the attitude that you need to succeed
>>
>>Which leads to another funny thing.  My husband's family, no one
>>ever breast fed, and he's got a big family, lots of women having
>>lots of babies.  I find it very strange that no one breast-fed
>>or breast feeds.  In fact, why I find totally bizarre, is that
>>there is an ob/gyn doctor in the family, and he and his wife has 3 kids,
>>they never even attempted to breast-feed any of them, and they would
>>like to have more children.  Note, the ob/gyn's wife does not work
>>or go to school, so these are not reasons to not breast-feed.
>>Nor are there any medical reasons for being unable to do it.
>>Wonder if they will all think I am the "strange one" for wanting
>>to breast-feed?  
>
>No...there are very few medical reasons for not breatfeeding, except when suffering certain rare illnesses, and taking certain medications.....
>
>I was the first woman to breastfeed in my family for several generations...I don't think they thought I was starnge...and now all the other young mums in our family breastfeed as welll...Somebody as a model is a good encouragement.
>>
>>I don't know, I just sorta thought if anyone is going to breast feed
>>their babies it would be an ob/gyn or the ob/gyn's wife.
>>
>>  Christine  (due 1/19/93)
>>  attme!alcmd 
>
>Some of it is fashion...Rich women in all parts of the world have avoided breastfeeding for hundreds of years...part of the status.  There are lots of old wives tales around about breastfeeding too...It will ruin your breasts, it will make you fat/thin, i
>t is not what intelligent women do...a bit animalistic...And the worst one of all....That artificial formulas are so close to breastmilk, there is no advantage in breastfeeding in todays world...All WRONG!
>

Interesting.  Most of the statistics I've seen on breastfeeding (as I
fuzzily recall them) indicated that the higher the level of education
and income the more likely the mother is to breastfeed.  

I think it might be more of a family tradition thing.

Elise.
>
>Congratulations, Christine, on making the absolute best choice for you and your baby ...
> 
>Best wishes...Kerry>
>
>


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Subject: Re: Roller skates for a 2.6 year old
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:47:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.182424.11321@athena.mit.edu>, raek@athena.mit.edu (Robyn A E Kozierok) writes...
>In article <1992Aug20.134335.8644@samba.oit.unc.edu> cew@med.unc.edu (Cathryn W. Chiesa) writes:
>>My 2.6 year old son loved to
>>sit on the porch and watch him skate.  ......
>>but has anyone bought a pair of plastic skates for a kid this
>>age???  Any recommendations for brands.  I figure we would hold
>>his hand and just push him around.  This is the first thing
>>he has every really wanted (and I know it won't be the last).
>>Thanks for any recommendations or suggestions.
> 
>Fisher Prices makes (made?) plastic strap-on-the-shoes type roller skates.
>I believe they were adjustable in size, and the cool thing was that there
>is a "beginners" mode where the wheels will move forward only, making it
>easier for young children to handle -- you can practically just walk on

We've got some. Our 2.5yr old uses them sometimes. They don't really go small 
enough to hold her foot snugly, but they don't fall off. There are 3 modes, 
fully locked, forwards only, and free. She hasn't knocked herself out yet. We 
have a moderately long parquet corridor (good for wheeled toys generally). 
When she started out we had her wear her bike helmet just in case.

We have also taken her ice skating. Our local rink has little metal frames 
for small kids to hang onto, which are really good. She is a bit unsure of 
herself yet but will let go of the frame and skate a couple of feet to Mummy. 
Out 4.5yr old is in lessons doing stuff like jumping and skating backwards 
(she's probably better than I am by now).

Andrew
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg)
Subject: Re: Second Baby Thoughts ...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.202549.24557@keps.kodak.com>, mbb@keps.kodak.com (Maureen Busch) writes...
> 
>An issue I haven't seen voiced in this thread which is an issue with a 
>second child is balancing the conflicting needs/wants/desires of the two
>children.  They are often in direct conflict with each other, and meeting
>the need of one means denying the other.  Parents have to choose, and it is
>very hard to choose one child over the other when you love them both so much.
>We all do it, and most of us manage it quite well, but it is still a mental
>and emotional job we didn't have when we had only one child's needs to 
>consider.
> 
Maureen has a good point here. I would also like to add that life
will sometimes throw you a curve - my son, my second child, has
just been diagnosed with developmental dyspraxia. He goes to
a special ed program. This is not the way I envisioned my life to
be. And, it adds another stress point, and it makes the balance
of time between the two children more difficult. You can plan all
you want, but sometimes, the cards don't play out the way you want.
Just my 2 cents.
                                         Patti Twigg
From: kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:02:52 GMT
Organization: Manlius Pebble Hill School; Dewitt, NY

Well, the old song says that fools rush in where angels fear to go, and I
must be a fool (but does this make me an atheist?) for putting in my two
cents, but I couldn't resist.

In article <2A8D20FA.C9C@intercon.com> ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
writes:

   > This is the exact thing I am talking about.  The statement that
   > the xtian god holds others responsible can easily be taken by
   > non xtians to say that xtianity is truth and no matter what else
   > we believe, we'll have to answer to the xtian god.  And the only
   > basis for this that can be given is the bible.

   > Understand what a slap in the face this is for anyone who
   > doesn't believe the same way you do.  I will certainly not teach
   > my daughter this sort of arrogant nonsense.

I just have one question...suppose in the end it turns out that all those
arrogant people were right?  I always have to live with the possibility
that some of my most firmly and fondly held beliefs will turn out to be
wrong, that I will have misunderstood, misinterpreted, gotten bad
information, and made bad choices...in good faith...but will still be
wrong.  I have to live with the possibility that people with whom I
vehemently disagree may end up being right (there's a great joke about the
Pope and a phone call from Salt Lake City that illustrates this).

I guess I tend to look at it in terms of a question that Blaise Pascal
once asked regarding a bet.  You can bet with everything you do in your
life one of two ways; either that God exists or that he doesn't.  Which
bet would you be more willing to *lose*?

If you bet that God exists, and behave in accordance with what you think
God demanded, and then find out in the end that there is no God, what have
you really lost except 70 odd years of living with hedonistic abandon?

But on the other hand, if you bet that he doesn't, and live your life in
accordance with that belief, only to find out in the end that there *is* a
God who had quite a few opinions on what you should do, then you stand to
possibly lose a bit more.

Frankly, I'd rather bet that he does exist.  I have *a lot* less to lose
that way in the event that I'm wrong.

I also have to remember that those arrogant people with whom I disagree so
strongly may well be *right*.

But then again, here too...I may be wrong  ;-)

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Keith E Gatling                                  kgatling@mailbox.syr.edu *
*          Opinions?  I've got plenty of them.  Just ask my wife!           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: nola@cats.ucsc.edu (Nola Van Vugt)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Turnips?????
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:28:20 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <BsvuzJ.2DE@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> sian@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (S. Meikle) writes:
>In article <765194d2350822t76@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:
>[turnips turn out to be Alaric's dream food... ]
>>Would you believe that now every time we go shopping I have a
>>hyperactive eight-year-old demanding turnips constantly?  TURNIPS???
>
>Eighteen month old Emily wolfed her way through a *big* batch of spinach
>as fast as her dad could cool it down the other night.  Frankly, we're
>a bit worried -- she also likes broccoli and peas and hates getting her

No surprise at all--my kids LOVE brussel sprouts (blanched in lots of
boiling water, pot uncovered, just until they are barely tender and
still bright green).  What's really funny is when friends come for
dinner who have never heard of the brussel sprouts, are told by my
kids that they are great, try them, like them, all kids end up in a
brussel sprout eating contest, leaving none for me, and then bug their
shocked parents to serve brussel sprouts!
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Graco Stroller/Carriage for sale
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:34:29 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Distribution: dc
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

Far Sale:

Baby Stroller/Carriage - Graco - Excellent Condition
Asking $75.  Call:  Joy, 410/224-4705, Annapolis.

   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
From: ghosh@solar.usc.edu (Monisha Ghosh)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Amniocentesis
Date: 17 Aug 1992 07:12:28 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.usc.edu


Hi all,

I've been reading this group ever since I became pregnant (in May) and
have found it to be a great source of information for a first time mom.
I'm now in my 15th week and find that I need to have amniocentesis next
week because both my husband and I are carriers of a fatal genetic
disease called thallasemia (both of us are from India where this disease
isnot as rare as in the US). We are really worried about the procedure
itself since we know there are risks to the fetus. However, faced with
the possibility that the baby might have a 25% chance of contracting
thallasemia major, which is usually fatal, we decided to opt for amnio.
Is there a FAQ on amnio? If yes, would the person who has it please mail
it? Does anyone on the net have any amnio experiences, good or bad, that
they would like to share? Any input would be really valuable.

Thanks,

Monisha
ghosh@solar.usc.edu
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Whole milk verses 2%
Date: 16 Aug 92 06:16:23 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.03

A quick check with the child-development texts left over from nursing
courses indicates that there are essential fatty acids in whole milk
which stay with the butterfat.  Apparently it's not just the fat itself
(which could come from other sources such as vegetable oils) but these
nutrient acids that infants and toddlers need.  That's why even
overweight ankle-biters need to get plenty of butterfat.

---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                    dcs@witsend.uucp ---
--- And if that doesn't work:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
From: bdsuba@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Grey Rider)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Kids and showers w/ parents and other stuff!
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:33:00 GMT
Organization: Turner Ranch. Blood Butte, Texas
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug20.080011.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsacp@acad3.alaska.edu writes...
>Hi again,
>  I have a question for everyone, and it may start another "war"
> 
>But here it goes anyways!
> 
>    Up to what age is it appropriate to have a child showering with
>mommy?
> 
>  I say that when a kid reaches 2 and a half it's a little inapropriate,
>because they are starting to learn more.

You mean like how to wash behind their ears? :-)

>  I'm curious what everyone else says.

My 4 year old daughter and 2 year old son both shower with mom, all 3 
together.  I'm a morning showerer, that's why they don't do it with me.
I suppose at some point either mom or the kids will decide that it's time 
to end the group showers, but I am not aware of any age at which this will 
happen.  My wife and I are comfortable with the learning process.  It's 
ignorance that scares us.
From: dleach@bbn.com (Deborah Leach)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: D.A.D. shirt
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:01:49 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


I received a catalog in the mail yesterday which has the D.A.D. shirt that
was discussed some time ago.  In case anyone is interested here is the
address:
The Lighter Side
4514 19th St. Court East
P.O. Box 25600
Bradenton, FL  34206-5600
(813) 747-2356

The shirt is on page 28, #99731, Diaper T-shirt, sizes M, L and XL.  The
price is $15.95 with packaging .95 and shipping $3.95.  I think the 
catalog number is 392C.

(This is one of the oddest collections of items in one catalog that I've
received!)

Debi (Mom to Andrew 3YO and Scott 1YO :-))
dleach@bbn.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: "Love" Triangle
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:41:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.233733.17080@cco.caltech.edu> hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough) writes:
>
>The problem with this seemingly sensible approach is that, as others have
>pointed out, the choices seem to be between getting taken advantage of
>or leaving very young children to a lousy fate.  
> [ details of similar situation deleted for space]
>One thing my husband and I talked about doing was contacting social welfare
>authorities.  If the family situation really is that dysfunctional, maybe
>intervention is warranted.  We never did have the guts to go through with
>it, though. 

Wait!  Stop!  There is another alternative.  Perhaps the family simply needs
educating.  We have a similar family in our social circle.  The mom is great,
but the Dad is still just a big kid - a great kind-hearted man but with very
little parental common sense.  Here is how we are working with them.

For example, let's call this guy Mark (not his real name).  Mark grew up with
a traditional Macho view of men.  So whenever any of the couples were together
the men made a point of always changing the baby's diapers.  Pretty soon Mark
was changing diapers.  Right now we're working on bedtime routines for their
kids.  Mark has started taking the job of baths, stories, bed while Mary does
the dishes and goes to bed so she can get up early for work.  And only because
one of the other men suggested it to him.

Now, this is harder if you really don't like your neighbors and abhor spending
time with them.  We happen to adore Mark and Mary and their kids.  But the
idea is that you take the role of mentor with them and use social settings,
such as neighborhood barbeques, or just over the fence chatting to get the
message accross.

In the case of this father and Matthew, perhaps your husband could call the
video game addicted dad and say, "Hey, I was thinking of going bowling.  Has
Matthew ever bowled?  What say you and me grab a couple of beers and take
Matthew bowling."  Message:  "You don't spend enough time with your kid."

Or, you can have the couple over for dinner and get to know them some.  Find
out how they think.  Drop a few hints here and there about the importance of
keeping a watchful eye on kids.  Perhaps a newspaper article about a kidnapping
in your city happens to come up over coffee.

I think we owe it to parents who don't really know how to parent to show them
by example, discuss theories with them, and basically educate them.  Lots of
parents really haven't a clue.  My guess is that is more the problem with
the neighbors than that they are just horrid and neglectful parents.  And if
you can teach them subtly without their realizing that you're butting in, all
the better.  
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:45:24 EDT
From: Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: They aren't young forever

The recent threads on second babies, spacing, and entertaining babies has
gotten me thinking about the short-sighted view we sometimes take in
thinking about kids.  Obviously, there are advantages and disadvantages to
all family configurations, but babies aren't babies forever and the problems
of having a newborn and a 2 year old will pass quickly.  Some changes we
have to make as parents are more temporary than others, like dealing with
fewer hours of sleep and colicky evenings.

As someone who came from a family of 8 kids (born over ten years), I know
that my parents made some incredible sacrifices.  But they continue to swear
they would not have done it any other way and one of their great joys is to
see us all reunite and enjoy each others company.

We finally got around to seeing "Hook" this weekend, and I thought the
mother made a good point when she told Robin Williams that the time period
in which children WANT their parents attention is short and passes too
quickly.  I think the same is true of the time period during which
children's needs are so high.  Already, I've forgotten the frustrations of
an inconsolable baby, and it's only been 11 months since Douglas was born.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that many of the problems of raising
children pass quickly, but my feeling is that most of the joys last a lot
longer.  Just my 2 pennies.

Chris Himes
Newsgroups: misc.kids