From: keithd@stallion.oz.au (Keith Duddy)
Subject: Re: Need opinions/advice...
Organization: Stallion Technologies
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:13:22 GMT

In <Bx7Aq2.9IF.2@cs.cmu.edu> anonymus+264@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (shalimar) writes:

>Hi all,

Hi Shalimar,
	welcome out of the shadows into the light of alt.polyamory!

>This is my first post to this group, though I have read it religiously
>since day one!  None of you know me, but I feel like I know many of you.

Me & my bonk-buddy have posted a few times about our relationships - you
may remember me...

[Introduce Bill & Ann]

>The situation has felt one-sided to me for a long time (since he has another
>relationship and I don't).  I feel that I *need* another relationship,
>because I don't get everything I want out of this LDR.  But of course, I
[what's an LDR?] 
>can't *make* another relationship happen; it's just that nothing has come
>along in all this time.  A lot of times I want a real live person within
>arm's reach, not hundreds of miles away!  I wouldn't say that I'm jealous
>of his other relationship.  But the fact that he has another person nearby
>and I don't is hard for me to deal with sometimes.  I've dealt with it quite
>well, I think, for the past year, but recently I've been feeling depressed
>about the whole thing.

I have at times I thought that I need another relationship (as Tim is the
one who has another bonk-buddy, and I don't) - but as long as I have Tim
nearby it's not that important, however last year when I was in England
I found that the need intensified, and finally after 11 months or so
I found someone in Germany. However once-a-month contact in person 
(regardless of how much you phone or write) is really too little, and I 
can really understand the need for someone nearer by.

>I don't know how to deal with this recent depression.  I'd like to hear what
>some of you think about this, and if you have any advice for coping.

>Also:  What kind of "rules" do you have about foregoing spending time with
>one SO in order to give attention to another SO who needs you?  What works
>best for everybody?  Let me describe a specific situation so you'll know
>what I'm asking.  I was feeling very depressed last night, and needed to
>talk to Bill.  I called him.  We talked for a few minutes, and I told him
>how I was feeling, and that I needed to talk to him.  He told me he was
[the phone call]

Tim and Mark and I don't really have any "rules", Generally Tim asks
each of us if it's OK that he spends this or that amount of time with
one or the other of us, and we spend so much time all 3 together that
it's often plain to Mark and I when the other needs Tim's company more
than ourselves, and we defer.... e.g. I had planned to spend Wed night
with Tim, and after spending some time with he and Mark I decided to
rather go home, as Mark was a little depressed, and wanted to stay up
and talk (I had to get some sleep to come in to work the next day,
otherwise i would probably have stayed up with them) so I went home,
happy to know that Mark had Tim's company when he needed it. 

As for your situation: Is it possible that Bill didn't realise how much
you needed to chat? Or that he'd made a much more fixed arrangement with
Ann than he let on? I guess it appears from what you said that he was
being insensitive - possibly because he would have had to raise you as
the reason why he couldn't see Ann, and that would have caused trouble.

>I'd also like to know what you think about Bill's trying to be poly with a
>non-poly person (Ann).  I've never met her because she has no desire to
>meet me.  She basically denies that I exist (and doesn't want me to exist).
>There have been some *extremely* rough times because of this (mostly between
>Bill and Ann, but, of course, whatever's going on with Bill has a big effect
>on me).  I guess I can't understand why he's continued so long in a
>relationship with someone who can't handle the situation and who tries to
>deny that I exist.  It has made things hard on me:  I feel hurt about this,
>and it has made for some problems with my dealing with things.  I think it's
>part of why I've been feeling depressed about the one-sidedness of things
>lately.  His other SO doesn't give a *shit* about me!  This hurts.  I can't
>see myself getting involved with someone who feels that way about Bill, so
>I have a hard time understanding why he's persisted with this situation for
>so long....

This is a very tricky situation... I can't imagine that I would get into
a situation where I would not make acceptance of my poly status a
pre-requisite for entering into another relationship. I guess this is a
lot easier in male only relationships. At one time I was becoming quite
close to a female friend, and when it looked like we were going to start
having sex I told her about Tim (this was a few years ago when we were a
lot less visible as a couple) and she went very cold and wanted nothing
to do with me sexually... so I can see that he might have thought that 
he would miss out on someone special if he told her first -
probably with the rationalisation that he could talk her around
afterwards. I can see that it would hurt - I can't imagine how awful it
would be if Mark considered me an adversary, and I had to separate
myself from him, who is an important part of Tim's life. Luckily he has
had mostly a positive impact on Tim's life, and so a positive impact on
me through Tim (and of course subsequently become a good friend of mine.) 
I feel really sorry that you have the complete antithesis of this 
situation.

>BTW, when Bill first started seeing Ann, he did it in such a way that I
>felt hurt and betrayed.  I don't want to go into details about this (it's
>very complicated).  It's long in the past, he and I have worked through
>my feelings about that situation and he will never do things that way again,
>but maybe I've never really gotten over it?  Maybe I still resent Ann in
>some way because of the way things started off?  Maybe I still resent Bill
>for doing things the way he did?  Maybe I'm afraid that he'll do the same
>thing again someday?  I'm not sure; I was wondering what some of you think
>about this.  Have you had such experiences, and if so, how did you manage
>to put the pain and resentment behind you?

Maybe you are justified to resent Ann, well at least not to hold her in
the same esteem as Bill obviously does. How did you two get together and
then come to be separated by hundreds of miles? Any prospects of being
closer? As you've probably read by now, there is a common opinion in
this group that polyamory works better, or is at least more pleasant
when each person at least knows, and preferably likes the other partners
of their partner... it must be a strain to know that he is working so
hard to keep someone who wishes that you would just go away, while
seeming to not want to forgo her company when you really need him... but
I suggest that you explain to him how you felt about that, as he may not
realise that he did something so inappropriate. IMHO if you want to avoid
recurring situations then keeping the communications channels open is
the best way of making sure you understand each other's needs.

>Sorry if the tone of this post is dark and depressing, but I'm depressed
>and feeling so lonely lately.  :-(

Unfortunately with this anonymous service I can't see where you are
mailing from, and neither can any friendly net people who are reading so
that we could offer some friendship in person.... (For lack of
information I have been picturing you as female and living in North
America.... but am happy to be corrected, or to consider these
attributes irrelevant.) I really hope that there is someone nearby who
could be a local lover, and that your friends who you are "out" to can
understand and offer some support. For this special circumstance I
transfer the soc.bi concept of an e-hug to polyamory. *HUG*. Hope that
helps just a little.

>Thanks in advance....  :-)

>shalimar

Keith
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