HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chem7l@jetson.uh.edu
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:36:00 GMT

In article <55239@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes...
>In article <1992Jul25.002200.1503@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:

>>Mechs rely on a different type of motor than tanks do.
> 
>First, assuming that the "different motor" relied upon is some sort of
>pseudo actino-myelin ("synthetic muscle") analog, there is no reason whatsoever
>why a tank could not use the EXACT SAME MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!
> 
>After all, it is very simple to transfer linear motion into circular motion
>(It's called a piston).

Just to clear things up:
BattleMechs use a fusion power plant, the main purpose of which is to generate
electricity.  The "synthetic muscles" contract when exposed to electric current.
Thus, the BattleMechs' fusion engines generate the energy needed for locomotion
directly.  On the other hand, vehicles have to have electric motors to convert
this electricity into mechanical energy.  Of course, they could just use myomer
fibers, but the myomer fibers probably don't contract fast enough to effectively
drive the pistons.  Thus, vehicles which require wheels or fans to move at high
RPMs require extra drive equipment.  That is why vehicles with fusion engines 
require drive equipment equal in weight to half the weight of the engine -- 
larger fusion engines produce more electricity and therefor require larger 
electric motors to convert that electricity to mechanical energy.  On the other
hand, internal combustion engines produce mechanical energy directly, but they
do not produce anything like the same amount of electricity.  Thus, no drive
equipment is required, but energy weapons cannot be used without power 
amplifiers.  Also, internal combustion engines require fuel, which _partly_
explains the fact that internal combustion engines weigh twice as much as 
equivilent fusion engines.  I've always assumed a rather large fuel reserve, as
battletech is not strong on logistics.  If you want more realism, however, you
may want to make IC engines smaller.  However, you should also make power 
amplifiers MUCH larger, as lasers, PPCs, etc. use MUCH more electricity than an
IC engine will provide.  In the interest of simplicity and game balance, I tend
to follow the standard rules.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR, Wimping out wizards
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:13:43 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

"Mark A. Baxter" <mb8p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>   I'd like to piss off a lot of people (well, not like to, going to) by
>discussing the possibility that Mages might be a little bit too powerful
>in SR.
>they are on par with other characters in effectiveness?  If someone has
>any ideas on this, if they have experience such that they agree or
>disagree, or if they just want to post, please respond. 

Right off the bat, I would say..Speed. Mages will spelllocked Increase
Reaction are commoner than hen's teeth, but for some reason, opposing
mages never bother to ground the spell lock or dispell them (Very easy
for an initiate to do.). The mages aren't that powerful if they aren't
going that often. Keep them slow, and things won't be that big a 
problem. Burn out their spell locks, knock them out and take away
the spell locks. 

>   Also, as an aside, could someone tell me if they've fixed the
>mechanical problem in the rules such that it makes more sense for me to
>buy all my spells at force two to four, and get eight spells, rather
>than force six, and get four or five.  I rarely cast above force two or
>three, particularly for high drain spells, because the target numbers
>get too high to resist fatigue.  And I can just toss most of my sorcery
>pool in for the extra power I'd otherwise use force for.  

Nope. I hear that in SR II, you will have to resist the force of the 
spell. I also hear that there will be no more dodge and defense pool, but
rather a combat pool. If this is true, I think it means samurai and others
can add some dice to their attacks. Seems fair to me.

Axly

********************************************************************************
*  Axly             *  "... and grenades are also useful for digging foxholes, *
*  Red Sword Targa  *   removing unwanted shrubbery, unclogging drains..."     *
*                   *      -Axly's Book of Explosives for Pyromaniacs          *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: carl@gergo.tamu.edu (Carl D. Perkins)
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Geochemical and Environmental Research Group - TAMU
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:36:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.161435.89577@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes...
> 
>Anyway a comment on energy conversion:
>   heat to mechanical - inefficient
>   mechanical to electrical - efficient
>   electrical to mechanical - efficient
>   heat to electrical - not possible as far as I know
> 
>Disclaimer: I haven't looked at this stuff for years!

Converting from heat directly to electricity is not only possible, it is
very easy to do. Look up the thermoelectric effect for starters. The main
problem is that (so far) it is quite inefficient.

I might add that the reason the myomer stuff is not used in tanks and such is
that the change in length is supposed to be rather small (a few percent) so
it requires rather long fibers (meters long) which are difficult to put in
a typical tank layout. At least thats the claim - silly as it may be.

--- Carl

>James Wadsley.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: shane@cs.UAlberta.CA (Ruman Shane James)
Subject: Vampire campaign/story ideas
Keywords: Vampire
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:31:38 GMT

       I recently purchased a copy of Vampire(saw it in the store, was very intrigued and before I knew it was $25 poorer) and am very impressed by the book itself and the game designers fanatical push for PC's to role-play to the hilt.  I read it straight through and are eager to start a campaign but momentarily stalled.  Usually the excitement of a new game starts the flood of ideas leading only to the problem of how I'm going to get them all in, but this time the flood is but a trickle(although it seems




 the concept could carry itself I would prefer a little story behind).  Are there any Vampire players out there?  What kind of story/campaign ideas have you been involved in or created?  Are the supplements that good, and more importantly can they be easily adapted to fit a personal campaign's setting and PC's.  I want to run the stories in our own town of about 600,000( Edmonton,Alberta) and have artificially inflated the vampire population to 15( including PC's) and added a alchemist sect, vampire hunter




s
                                                                     Shane
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Subject: Re: Combat Characters? (Was: SR: Melee Weapons)
Keywords: Shadowrun, SRun, SR
Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 12:57:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.181117.9089@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pearlman) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul24.123511.17702@visix.com> gray@visix.com (Gray Jones) writes:
|> >If you assume that the average skill level is 3, on average a character should have 6, 7, 8, 10, or 13
|> 
|> You should definitely assume the average skill level is either 5 or 6.
|> Because this system gives an advantage to taking small skills, you should make
|> it 5.  So the skill priority system would be:
|> 
|> 0 (21*3) + 3 = 66
|> 1 (21*4)     = 84
|> 2 (21*4) + 13= 97
|> 3 (21*6)     =126
|> 4 (21*8)     =168
|> 
|> The reason behind this is that Skillwires become devastatingly powerful
|> otherwise.

If you incorporate the ShadowTech Rules for skill wires, the Essence and NewYen cost
go up quite a bit.  Now characters need an I/O SPU to be able to use skill wires at the same 
speed as "normal" skills.  And, there is a maximum number of points in skills that a 
skill wire set can have "loaded" at one time.  Normal Skillwires can only handle skills
that TOTAL to their rating (one skill at 6 or two skills at 3).  New Skillwires Plus can
handle twice their rating in total skills, but the cost 25% more (750,000 Y for level 6).

Skill wires should be powerful for what they cost.  

I agree that 5 should be used as an average, though.  

|> 
|> >level	skill "points"
|> >1	1
|> >2	3
|> >3	7
|> >4	13
|> >5	21
|> >6	31
|> 
|> Andy Pearlman
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:46:59 GMT

In article <28JUL199215114551@jane.uh.edu> chem7l@jane.uh.edu writes:
>
>You have a point.  I always assumed that an efficient method of converting heat
>to electricity had been produced.  After all, they produced an efficient method
>of converting light to electrical energy, and that is almost as difficult.  It's
>really just a matter of finding the right crystalline structure with the correct
>composition to cause electron migration in a given direction when heated.
  Not heat, as in thermal energy. Every system I know of requires mechanical
transport of some sort. Solar cells depend on completely different physics
to work.


>Sorry, but this is simply wrong.  Fusion engines do create mostly heat energy, 
>though a good deal of light would be released as well.  Internal combustion, 
>however, produces heat almost as a side effect.  Actually, the piston
>compresses an air/fuel mixture which is then ignited by a spark.  The resulting
>chemical reaction then breaks the fuel into several gas molecules.  The extra 
>gas molecules, along with the added heat, cause a sudden increase in pressure
>(an explosion) which drives the piston into the open position.  Thus, the 
>engine effectively turns chemical energy into mechanical energy in a pretty
>straightforward mechanism that takes advantage of entropy changes as well.  
  I'd say that the added heat has a lot to do with the pressure increase.
It's just that internal combustion systems are relatively efficient. 

>
>>If mechs run on electricity then they need two more steps than standard
>>vehicles. 
>>Mech: Heat - Mechanical - Electrical - Myomer
>             ?^^^^^^^^^^?
>No, the 'Mech has no need of a Mechanical energy step, as the myomers _are_ the
>means of converting electrical to mechanical energy.  Also, it is entirely 
>possible that the myomers convert the electrical energy to mechanical energy at
>almost 100% efficiency, but even if they don't the fusion engine can produce so
>much more energy that it doesn't matter.
  No, he's saying that you need a mechanical system to convert the heat into
usable electrical energy.


>Conversion of electricity to mechanical energy is not _that_ efficient, but you
>do have a point.  Fusion engines should work in vehicles as well as they do in
>'Mechs.  But the game wasn't designed to be technologically accurate, it was 
>designed for fun and with the game balance weighted in favor of 'Mechs to make
>them the masters of the battlefield. 
  Electric motors are very efficient. Much more efficient than internal
combustion. You just can't get the torque you can with IC.



-- 
Mike Swaim            | "What izzis wunnderful thing? S' Beautiful
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | I think I'll put my tongue on it." -Arthur
Rupp doesn't even know who I am,
 much less care what I think
From: zamick@yoko.rutgers.edu (Jonny the Z)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: New Name for Flesh Golem wanted!
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:42:28 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



One possible generic name for a "flesh golem" would be an: orgomaton

Its an organic automaton, and the name also lends itself to being
called the 'orgasmitron' which could disable the players if not the
characters with a bit of laughter.


Jonathan Zamick
From: jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Futzing Around With Skill Modifiers
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:11:45 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <l6cmyrn.akuma@netcom.com>, akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
> Of course, there are various skills for social interaction.  
> The problem in games like RQ is that characters with low
> attributes can learn any skill thru experience, despite
> any bad skill modifiers.  It should be impossible for an
> INT 8 character to learn nuclear physics, likewise, there
> should be upper limits on social skills for characters with
> low CHA.  High CHA characters should have higher starting
> skill values, rather than a measly +5 or +10 bonus.

Excellent point! Has anyone ever tried to modify RQ this way? ( Or any of the
RQ-spawn games: Stormbringer, Cthulu or Ringworld ). This would be a great step
towards realism. I'd like to hear any ideas people have on this.

Harnmaster calculates base skill as modifier x 1-5 .( Harnmaster doesn't have
negative modifiers ). It goes something like this ( somewhat RQ-ised ):
Attack Modifier = ( Dexterity + Strength + Intelligence )/3
Base attack with club is Attack Modifier x 3 .

Upper limits on skills:
-----------------------
I am experimenting with saying 100%+modifier is the upper limit to skill. Thus
if your agility modifier is +10 then 110% is the highest your dodge can
naturally become, without special effort. This removes the D&D-esque skill
spiral up to 200% or whatever. I wouldn't apply this idea to anything but
physical skills. I think Knowledge skills can always keep progressing until
you go senile. 

If you want to go higher that the 100%+modifier limit ( which is possible under
standard experience rules ), that's fine. I just require that you spend 1 hour
a week practicing to maintain that level. If you don't, then your skill is
reduced slowly back to the top limit. Thus the sum of the amount by which all
physical skills exceed their limit can never be more than 50%. ( 50 hours per
week training ). Eg. By training for 40 hours per week, you could maintain 4
skills at 10% past their natural limits.

This is just a simple idea, but it is the aim that counts. I like the idea that
there is a natural limit to skill. At age 30 or so, he is champion of the
world. After that, injury and age lead him to give it up ( eg. lost 1-2
dex or strength ). He is no longer the champion, but still damn good.

Comments?

James Wadsley.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dark games
From: ajross@husc9.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross)
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:52:35 GMT

dfn@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Nalle) writes:

>6: MONSTERS
>For the purposes of this code, the term "monster" is defined to mean non-human
>creatures and/or violent beasts whose primary purpose is destruction and/or
>criminal activity/  As foes of the protagonists, their evil should be defeated
>adn the criminal punished or destroyed.

How many folks immediately realized that this excludes Sesame Street?

Andy Ross
ajross@husc.harvard.edu
                                                that's right, no .sig
From: rowe@soda.glorantha.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Armor Overlapping Rules
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:51:39 GMT
	<1992Jul16.155535.29758@mcs.anl.gov> <l6okhqINNphc@cash.cs.utexas.edu>
Organization: UCB Integrative Biology
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: mckinney@cs.utexas.edu's message of 21 Jul 92 18:06:50 GMT

In article <l6okhqINNphc@cash.cs.utexas.edu> mckinney@cs.utexas.edu (Durwood Y. McKinney) writes:

   Yes, the armor layering rules are really messed up.  According
   to them, you can layer armor (2 layers) as long as the bottom
   layer is non-rigid.  Allowable combinations include Ringmail
   & Cuirbolli (8 AP), bezainted & cuirbolli (7AP), Ringmail&Ringmail
   (10AP), all the way up to plate&chain (15AP).  When you start figuring
   in multipliers for iron armor things get really disgusting.  of course
   all of this is "balanced" by the removal of limits on bladesharp 
   (bladesharp 10 is now possible, and even feasible to learn with access
   to low POW cult spirits) and the grossest runequest spell of all
   time, Damage Boosting.  Armor and damage values end up being the dominant
   factor in the game and skill and natural advantage play a lesser role.

I have to disagree with this interpretation of the rules, not that I wouldn't
like to see someone in plate and chain try to cast healing as they bled to
death. First, reading the armor descriptions it is clear that only soft
leather, or cloth, can be used under other armor. Where you get confused I
believe is where the asterisks label soft armor and hard armor, mentioning
that soft armor can be worn under other types. I believe this refers to the
type of armor (Byrnie, Sleeves, Coif), not the material of it. So you could
use a soft leather Sleeve under plate vambraces, but not hard leather
Vambraces under chainmail. Sure, you could interpret it the way you have, but
why? You have admitted it is silly. Read the descriptions again. I also
have seen only soft leather used as layering in both RQ2 and RQ3 supplements.
RQ2 was a little clearer about soft leather being the only layerable armor,
but I don't think they changed the rules for that in RQ3.

eric
From: v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ninstar Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 30 Jul 92 03:56:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <8eRidjC00WBLQ44nos@andrew.cmu.edu>, wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) writes...
>I had thought about that... battletech makes sense if you assume that it
>takes place during a technical hiatus, before the next generation of
>vehicles utilize the myomer technology.
> 
>Of course, this period would, most likely, be on the order of 10-20
>years in length. Long enough for a campaign.

Yes, and bear in mind that the game background indicates that the war has slowed
progress to a halt.  Thus it may take considerably longer to get that next
generation of vehicles.  Also, there's a tendency to get to a point and decide
it's good enough.  Look at the reluctance of the industry to switch over to 
other power supplies for vehicles.  You don't see the military working on 
electric tanks do you?  (not that you know of...heh heh heh...)  Thus
the engineering world may have decided that Fusion engines powering an 
electrical engine is good enough for now.  They may not WANT to use myomers
and be looking in a different direction.  And without an example readily
available, and other things on their mind, they may not have gotten it yet.

Alot of things can slow down technology, dude.  we should have Holograms
in the home by now, but it hasn't happenned because they don't think the
device would be PROFITABLE yet.


James Shank           	#		v131p9t3@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
AKA: Ninstar Cybermage  #	or	shank@acsu.buffalo.edu
###############################################################################
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From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Mech's (was Re: Genres)
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:25:19 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

cjudd@esk (Craig Thomas Judd) writes:

> One advantage of a well-built mecha is the interface. ... Granted, a well
> fitted-out tank could do the same things, so the advantage really lies with
> interface.

What is the benefit of a great interface to a ludicrous machine?  Can you dodge
a hypervelocity K.E. missile?  Can you aim a missile better by "pointing your
arm" (or however the interface works) than by designating a missile on a touch
screen and having the computer launch and guide it from a tank?  Better yet,
the computer can scan the areas, identify targets and fire without the operator
having to react.

No one has yet provided a valid justification for the mech as a military
system; the other options (combined forces with tanks, infantry, air support,
etc), especially if you consider the other options to be similarly advanced.

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs? Hexapod
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:26:17 GMT
	<RATINOX.92Jul29101842@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<Bs5yHM.EK0@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 29 Jul 92 19:39:00 GMT
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>>>>> On 29 Jul 92 19:39:00 GMT, v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ninstar
>>>>> Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!) said:

>A walking tank has the benefit of being able to step over obstacles that
>would stop a tracked tank.

NC> Few though those may be.  Keep in mind that if a tank doesn't go over
NC> it it goes THROUGH it.

Show me a tracked tank that can get past a trench cut into the ground like
this:

      _______________
                     |
                     |       <---Tank
                     |     ____________
                     |    |
                     |____|

where the deep section is just wide and deep enough to really mess up a
tracked tank. Pretty standard desert anti-tank setup. The hexapod can
(hopefully) just step over it, two legs at a time so it's never unbalanced.

--Rat

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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc