From: blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu (Jon Blow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: GB vs LAR lag
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:34:49 GMT
Organization: Experimental Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu

Jon Sin writes:

> So on the second game, LAR tried their best to accommodate the GBs and 
> lost a very close game marred by lag on both sides (both CERFnet and 
> BARnet had trouble), with many ghostbusts and pauses (I don't think
> there were more than one or two ghostbusts or pauses during the first 
> game).  LAR even gave back couple of planets taken during ghostbusts, 
> 
> for heaven's sake, in a game that went into overtime.

> GBs won, and they didn't complain about the lag this time.  But they 
> still complain about the *first* game.  Geez.


I think you're missing a very important point:  The lag during the first
game was MUCH worse than the second.  The lag during the second game was
bad, sure, but it was more solid-state lag-- when we weren't ghostbusted,
we could *actually* *control* *our* *ships*.  There's a big difference
there.

By my count during the second game (by no means official), we lost four
planets to ghostbusts, one of which (Sirius) was given back to us by the
server god.

All through the game I argued that trying to give planets back was dumb
and we should just play through it.  Why?  Because a ghostbust does a LOT
more damage than that, and trying to repair it is just silly.  After a
ghostbust has occurred, there are n members of the other team who have
scummed kills, gone back to their core, and picked up armies; sure, a
couple carriers might drop on a planet, but this damage is negligible
compared to what's been done by the rest of the game state.

But it's even stupider than that-- during the FIRST game (at Calvin), we lost
just about ALL our planets due to lag, but that lag was not recognized as
being as serious as a ghostbust (oh my, a ghostbust!) because our ships were
still wiggling around.


I also think that LAR has an ego problem.  I am not saying this to rag on your
team; I know it will probably start yet another flame war, but I think you
should take the following comments seriously, because they're honest comments
from someone who's played against you.

You guys just aren't that good.  Hardcore Clue (tm) is not very prevalent on
your team; I only remember being seriously worried about two of your players
doing anything dangerous: Exxon Valdez and pteroducktyl.  And pteroducktyl was
subbed out halfway through the game.

Every member of your team (except pteroducktyl) is Killable.  Of all the
Killables, everyone but Exxon was Very Killable or Extremely Killable.
While we were dogfighting around before the game, I became almost sure that
you guys were being intentionally feeble in order to try and get us to be
overconfident (I mentioned this to the rest of our team a couple times; it's
probably even in the message log.)  About 1/3 of the way through the game,
I took to ogging two of you per ogg run, _in a destroyer_, because I saw that
I could consistently do it-- I'd just smash through one ship and into another,
and they'd both go foom.  I had a high ratio for an ogger.  (I was doing
space-control ogging through most of the game; our real ogger, Amazing, was
not there.)

Exxon was pretty much the only guy who exercised Hardcore Clue (tm) by doing
the right thing at the right time, all the time.

Loki plays mostly the way I used to before I Got-A-Clue (tm).  If he's
anything like I was in developing his playing style, he does the things he
does because they work on the average-type players on places like Calvin.
They definitely do not work in tournament situations against people who
know what they're doing.  They definitely definitely do not work against
people who have spent >90% of their playing time in destroyers and used
to do all the same things themselves.

I think you guys would be a much better team if you played vs. Real Opponents
more often, which probably means spending most of your playing time not on
Calvin.  However, this is probably icky and/or hard given the notorious
Calvin Lag.

    -Jon (Hell Peacock)