HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Just one question
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:35:59 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
> In article <B00koB1w164w@cellar.org>, hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw) writes:
> |> How the hell is one supposed to pay for a college education?
> |> 
> You contribute a minimal amount from summer earnings (roughly $5000), your
> parents contribute their fair share and the university contributes the rest.
> After that there is little debt.
> 

Well, that's the theory. Every semester I was at U. Michigan I was told,
"The university figures you need $4000 [or whatever], but we can afford
to give you $1700 ["give" = grants AND LOANS]. Have a nice day." 

I still think it was worth it, because with an engineering degree I'm able
to make the loan payments and still maintain a higher standard of living
than if I had no degree. Would it be worth it for a liberal arts education?
...really hard to say.

-LJ.
-- 
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.

Newsgroups: misc.education
From: vftim@finans.rostov-na-donu.su (Timofeyev)
Subject: Russia is looking for financial colleges (schools)
Reply-To: vftim@finans.rostov-na-donu.su
Organization: Financial Technical Secondary School
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:09:41 +0300




Subject: Russia is Looking for Financial Colleges (Schools)

    We are looking for  colleagues  of  foreign  financial/bank 
colleges  (secondary  schools) to  establish  professional  and  
personal  contacts and friendly relations.
    We  would  like  to  have  some  information on your College; 
education system in your country;  your advances and problems in  
teaching and training of boys and girls (on informatics, English-
German-French  language  studying,   budgeting  and   accounting,   
banking,  insurance and taxation, laws, using computers and local 
networks, E-mail and computer games, etc.); corresponding books,  
practical manuals,  software for  students; scouting.
    We are living in Rostov-on-Don - the big green city   (above 
1000000 inhabitants) on the Don river. Our college- Rostov School 
of Finance, where about  900  students  from  all  North Caucasus 
(basically  15/19-years-old girls)  are  studying and training on 
finance.  We have IBM-compatible computers and E-mail.
    A group of 5-7 teachers and students could be received for a 
week in July-August of 1992/93.
    Q.: Which USENET conferences are commonly used for discussion 
on financial colleges and financial education system?

 !! All required information on all financial/bank colleges and
institutes of Russia and XUSSR Republics could be sent (including
E-mail addresses (if necessary) !!


V.F. Timofeyev,  
53 Dolomanovsky Per.,  
Rostov School of Finance,Room 4
Rostov-on-Don, 344700, Russia (USSR)

Phone:          +7-8632-34-4600 (7:00am - 4:00pm GMT)
E-mail:  vftim@finans.rostov-on-don.su
or public@tlgk.rostov-na-donu.su (For Timofeyev - FIN)

   With best wishes   - Vlad F. Timofeyev
                        Chief engineer on PCs

P.S.   If you are not interested in our proposals, pass this 
message to a nearby college or secondary school, please.
From: hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Just one question
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:15:58 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

How the hell is one supposed to pay for a college education?

Hack --Yeah, I'll put myself $50,000 in debt at 21 years old-- Saw

------
hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw)
The Cellar BBS - (215) 654-9184
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Just one question
Newsgroups: misc.education
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:10:41 GMT

Hacksaw writes
> How the hell is one supposed to pay for a college education?
> 
> Hack --Yeah, I'll put myself $50,000 in debt at 21 years old-- Saw

So you don't think a college education for you is worth $50,000 ? Then maybe  
you can explain why it should be worth that kind of money to someone else.

	Carl Edman
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: sscott@unl.edu (Stephen Scott)
Subject: Re: Just one question
Reply-To: sscott@unl.edu
Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln, CSE Dept
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:29:59 GMT

In article 15687@athena.mit.edu, solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
>In article <B00koB1w164w@cellar.org>, hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw) writes:
>|> How the hell is one supposed to pay for a college education?
>|> 
>|> Hack --Yeah, I'll put myself $50,000 in debt at 21 years old-- Saw
>
>You contribute a minimal amount from summer earnings (roughly $5000), your
>parents contribute their fair share and the university contributes the rest.
>After that there is little debt.
>
>Jason W. Solinsky


"Little debt"?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Try telling that to my fiance who, thanks to 12 years of Republican crap (her farming family is now near bankruptcy), now owes over $10000 for her $50000 education.  And this, she tells me, is low compared to some of her classmates who borrowed that much *in one year.*

Not saying that a college education isn't worth it, but the federal government should take more responsibility for its future.

Steve

---
|     Steve's Third Theorem:                                |     |\_/|
|             Whatever it is, it won't work.                |    \'o.0'/
+-----------------------------------------------------------+    =(___)=
| Steve Scott                            sscott@cse.unl.edu |       U
From: burrill@aai.com (James Burrill)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: IBM PC for Donation
Keywords: charitable, education, IBM_PC
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:54:23 GMT
Reply-To: burrill@aai.com (James Burrill)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Amerinex AI

I would like to donate an old IBM PC to some educational or charitable
organization (preferrably a charitable, educational organization).

It has
   256 kB on the system board
   8087
   10 MB Maynard hard disk
   360 kB full height 5.25" (DS-DD) floppy
   Maynard clock-calender
   IBM color graphics adaptor
   Princeton Color Display
   IBM Keyboard
   Assorted old software & manuals
     IBM PO Manual & Diagnostics
     IBM DOS 2.0
     IBM Pascal Compiler 1.0
     IBM Easywriter (worthless)
     IBM Multiplan 1.0
     Maynard support software

I bought it in 1983 and used it for software development. All parts are in
working order and are stored in the original cartons. I had been using it
for regression testing but now feel that there is no longer any need to
make sure things will continue to work on such an old PC.

The recipient of this system will have to pick it up in the Amherst,
Massachusetts area (Western Mass. - 20 miles north of Springfield near
I-91).

Interested organizations can send me e-mail.  Please include some (short)
information about your organization. I will not be monitoring this news
group for replies.

    Jim Burrill
    burrill@aai.com
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell)
Subject: Re: Performance Clumping (was Re: If you have to
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 13:49:02 GMT


Excellent post!  Exactly what I had in mind(!)  IMHO, all teachers should
be made aware before they teach a single day that there is a "sociology
of the classroom"; each teacher should strive, in whatever way suits her/his
style, to develop a "class atmosphere" where excellent learning and excellent
performance are the norms.  The students, when they enter the class, "are"
independent variables, but they quickly become dependent - and the hope is
that the teacher can direct this dependence toward high performance and lead
it away from cynicism, discouragement, and apathy.
Alan McConnell
-- 
Alan McConnell             "What wondrous life is this I lead!
Pixel Analysis              Ripe apples drop about my head . ."
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: macgregor@master.lds-az.loral.com (Mac Macgregor)
Subject: Buying Grades
Organization: LDS-AZ
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:01:04 GMT

I am looking for references or anecdotes about teachers using cold hard cash
(i.e. moola, money, bread, dough, etc) to motivate students to improve their
mastery of difficult/boring/dubiously relevant tasks like learning the
multiplication table.

Would I be on ethical thin ice here, or am I just trying to replace the perception
of mathematics being difficult and distasteful (I am not a math teacher!) with
the perception that it pays!
Mac
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: If you have to prepare a course, read this message
Keywords: course preperation, syllabus
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:07:47 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Jul21.100559.11027@highlite.uucp> alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell) writes:

>I am afraid that I too, with Professor Rubin, must "flame" the "syllabus-
>scheme" given in bovik@eecs.nwu.edu.   There is, alas, no substitute for a
>_thorough_ knowledge of the subject matter one wishes to teach - and an
>empathy and sympathy for the difficulties likely to be encountered by the
>students on the way will be frosting on the cake.

>But I wish to raise a question arising from Prof Rubin's post.  Why is it
>that one class in, say, Trigonometry(or American History), will be a "good"
>class, with many A-deserving students, while the next term the class(also
>containing 35 students, say) will be miserable, with many flunking?  Does
>not the Law of Large Numbers mandate pretty much an equal distribution of
>talents in the two classes? (this will, I hope, be a Red Flag to certain
>posters in this topic ;-) ).

There are several reasons why not.  Which term it is, the time of day
it meets, make a difference.  The presence of a few students can make
a difference.  I will discuss these first, and then mention some more
serious problems. 

In a different course, one semester I was under the impression that the
class was not performing well at all.  It turned out that, of those who
filled out the teacher evaluation forms, not a single one had as much
as a B average, and there were several without even a C average.  This
was quite different from the usual.

In the example I cited, there were several good students in the class
who probably should have been taking a higher level course.  These
students asked lots of questions.  In the other term, there was only
one who could be called a really good student, and she rarely opened
her mouth.  Not only that, but these good students organized a
discussion group for the course, which most of the students attended
on at least a fairly regular basis.

Now for the other factors.  Even if the incoming students are 
equivalent, and there is no guarantee of that,   But the teacher
can be trying out something new, which may or may not work.  The
students may be in an unusual program, taking up a lot of their
time.  There is the problem of extra-curricular activities.

The grading of a course does not have as a major purpose finding
out the native abilities of the students, but the knowledge and
ability to use the material.  The native ability is not changed
by the course.  If the grade is not on an absolute scale, what 
does it mean to someone who is considering the student for a
subsequent course, or for graduate work, or for a job?
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: ebrownst@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Erica M Brownstein)
Subject: looking for science activity guidelines
Keywords: teacher education, science activities
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:22:58 GMT

We are putting together a workshop on how to choose an activity for science.  
This workshop is for educators of all age groups.  In order to help educators 
evaluate science activities that are appropriate for their needs, we would like
to come up with some guidelines.  What should a teacher look for in an activity
for science.  If it is hands on, what makes a good hands on activity?  How can 
one sort out activities without first trying them?
We do have some ideas, but i am looking for some fresh opinions.
Thanks
erica brownstein
ebrownst@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: "tom betz" <tom.betz@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: frightening ignorance
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:30:18 EST
Reply-To: "tom betz" <tom.betz@execnet.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Executive Networks Information


GE>   GE>TB>~ OLX 2.2 ~ Born again?  No thanks.  I got it right the first time.

GE>   GE>No problem -- but do not expect us to stop asking.

GE>   So long as you do not expect me to stop telling you to get the hell out
GE>   of my face, and to stay the hell out of my personal business.

GE>I do not know tom, that sounds mighty angry to me.

Damned right, that sort of conceit makes me angry.  I have no respect for
any busybody telling me that they know better how I should live my life,
and I'll make no polite bones about it.

GE>Sorry if one simple
GE>question invades your personal business and space.

That simple question is all tied up with a great deal of historical
baggage.  As far as I'm concerned, evangelists (professional or amateur, it
makes no difference) rank no higher on the scale of morality than slavers.

I'll have no truck with would-be slavers.

You keep your religion in your pants, I'll do the same with mine;  and
we'll get along just fine.

---
  OLX 2.2  The problem with Yahweh is he thinks he's God.
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Just one question
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:24:18 GMT

In article <B00koB1w164w@cellar.org>, hacksaw@cellar.org (Hacksaw) writes:
|> How the hell is one supposed to pay for a college education?
|> 
|> Hack --Yeah, I'll put myself $50,000 in debt at 21 years old-- Saw

You contribute a minimal amount from summer earnings (roughly $5000), your
parents contribute their fair share and the university contributes the rest.
After that there is little debt.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: pacific@polari.online.com
Subject: Student Free Speech: Case Law
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:37:47 GMT

     A question was raised in this newsgroup concerning court findings
that allow for free speech by students.  Tinker vs. Des Moins, which is
a case heard during the Viet Nam War, found that students have free
speech guarentees so long as it does not conflict with the educational
process.  This case is the cornerstone legal doctrine in this area.

John Cohen
Puyallup, Washington


Newsgroups: misc.education
From: oddjob@oz.plymouth.edu (Andrew C. Stoffel)
Subject: English vs. Math/Science - "Them's fightin words!!"
Reply-To: oddjob@oz.plymouth.edu (Andrew C. Stoffel)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:08:17 GMT

Why, pray tell, should someone get more for being a Math or Science
teacher than for being an English teacher ? Which is more important
for the general population to be able to do ? To be able to read and
write, or do quadratic equations, or examining the cell structure of a gnat ? 

[I feel like starting a flame war...... especially since someone
here just said I'm only qualified to be a fast-food restaurant manager
with an English degree. But since I obviously have no worth in the
scheme of things because I believe being able to communicate is very
important to EVERYONE, not just English teachers, I think I'll refrain.]

You'll notice I DIDN'T quote the original article. I've been too busy
with a new job to read the group lately. A teaching job ? No such
luck. As Eric Green noted we are awash in English and History teachers
so getting a job as one is next to impossible. But then, I know
somebody who is a VERY good math teacher and she CAN'T find a teaching
job either. I think I applied for EVERY HS English teacher job in NH
(USA) , all 25 of them and even with a Master's degree only got two
interviews, both for temporary positions that I didn't get.

As far as salaries go..... comparing one area of the country to the
other is pointless. The school district that my mother teaches at in
upstate NY gives starting teachers $27K their first year while the HS
I went to where I grew up is only paying 22K a year to start. And they
are only 45 minutes apart. And then there's a cousin of mine in the
same area who is making 30K after teaching for 3 years. And then
there's me. The average starting salary in NH is 20K. I have a
temporary job doing something else that'll pay me more (if it lasts)
in a year than teaching my first year. Oh well....

-Andy-
-- 
|"The Snark WAS a Boojum, you see!"   |                                |
|"Reality !?! Isn't that something    |     andys@psc.plymouth.edu     |
|    you sprinkle on ice ??"          |     oddjob@oz.plymouth.edu     |
From: wright@ceawlin.cs.odu.edu (GENTLEMAN)
Newsgroups: misc.education
Subject: Re: frightening ignorance
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:10:36 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA, USA

In article <1992Jul24.1283.3075@execnet> "tom betz" <tom.betz@execnet.com> writes:

   GE>I have spent a week defending my personal character

   You have spent a week avoiding the issues, defending emptiness.

The issue I brought up in my very first post was moral teaching in our
public schools.  You never directly discussed this untill your last
post.  All posts before your last have been aimed at me personally
and not the issue.

   GE>and now we can get
   GE>back to the discussion of religion/moral teaching in schools.

   I thought you said that you wanted to keep religion out of this.  And now
   you bring it immediately back in... you see how unaware you are of your own
   narrow prejudices?

I never said I wanted to keep religion/moral discussions out of this - that
was the discussion at the time of my post.  I said I want to keep my personal
religious views out of this, but you seem to have a need for me to express
my personal beliefs.

   GE>First of all, would you agree that ALL humans share comon principles in
   GE>their pursuit of morality?

   No.

Fine!  That settles it.  We have nothing else to discuss under this
thread's subject.

   Judging from the Republican approach to welfare reform and health care,
   I'd say that Thrasymachan morality is alive and well in the Republican
   Party.

Nothing at all wrong with the approach of the Republican party.  I have 
worked very hard for the things that I have.  Why would one ever believe
that they are entitled to a "free hand-out" BEFORE attempting to show some
hard work?


   Well, since your premise is fatally flawed, I'll not bother discussing that
   which elaborates upon it.

Odd that you should say this.  I have received several e-mails from 
individuals reading the thread, and they have all applauded my opinions
and expressed how they, too, feel the same way.

This is my last post concerning this thread.  It seems we are not doing 
anything positive at all, and I am sure others out there are tired of 
listening to the bickering.  You may respond if you like, Tom, but I
will not answer.

T. Wright
Newsgroups: misc.education
From: matt@unidata.ucar.edu (Matt Hicks)
Subject: Re: Letter to Parking Services
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:28:19 GMT

neves@pilsner.cs.colorado.edu (NEVES RICHARD K) writes:

>The following is a letter I just sent off to Parking Services.  In the letter
>I complain about the "wait for the meter to expire" policy and an erroneous
>citation.

>I'm curious about people's opinions on the "wait for the meter to expire" 
>policy.  Am I out of line?

I've had similar experiences with the Boulder City parking nazis. My parents came
to visit me a couple of years ago and we got 3 parking tickets in 2 days. While one 
of these was reasonably considered to be an infraction, the others were found on our
car within a couple of minutes of when the meter *should* have expired. We did not 
actually see the meterperson, he or she must have written the ticket while waiting
for the last couple of minutes to expire (either that, or the meterpeople are re-
quired to take an Evelyn Wood Speedwriting Course :-). Other possible explanations 
are 1) that parking meters are not accurate chronometers (conspiracy theories, any-
one?) 2) the meter person came by the second after the meter expired and therefore
had no way of knowing whether it just expired or had never had any money in it at
all.

Unfortunately, while I think Mr. Neves' letter expressions his frustration well, I
don't think he has clearly indicated what the problem with the "wait for the meter 
to expire (WFTMTE, just in case I need to refer to it again :-))" policy is. It is
a classic case of government (or the authority of your choice) enforcing the letter
of the law instead of just preserving the intent. As is evident here, this usually
occurs when such enforcement has some secondary effect (such as increased revenues)
that never should have been the primary goal. The threat of parking tickets should 
be an incentive for people to move their cars after a reasonable elapsed time; the 
time allowed on a meter tells us what the authorities feel is reasonable, but it is
hard to believe that a minute or two more would actually get anyone's dander up. No,
the answer here is definitely money. The WFTMTE policy means that no expired meter
goes to waste; why go looking for the next expired meter (which might not exist) when
there is $15 just a couple of minutes away. Efficiency rules.

I need to stop rambling on here, but other good examples are rolling stops or
stopping then proceding through a red light at 3:00 on Sunday morning. Laws designed
to protect people become an excuse to make money when there aren't any people around
to protect.



--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Matthew  B.  Hicks			Unidata Program Center
matt@unidata.ucar.edu				UCAR, PO Box 3000
303/497-8676					Boulder, CO 80307-3000
Newsgroups: boulder.general
From: gregg@vexcel.com (Gregg Phillips)
Subject: For Sale: 19" Color X Termial, UNIX, DOS SUN Workstation $2500
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO
Distribution: boulder
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:57:27 GMT

I have the following computer for sale:


SUN 386i/250	80386-DX CPU 25 Mhz
		80387 Math Coprocessor
		8 Mbytes of memory expandable to 16 Mbytes
		344 Mbyte Imprimus SCSI Hard Drive
		19" Hitachi Color monitor
		SUN - 4 type keyboard w/ optical mouse
		3.5" floppy drive
		SUN OS 4.0.2  SUN Berkley like UNIX
		MS-DOS 3.3 emulation under Sunview
		1 serial & 1 parallel port
		1 Ethernet 802.3 DB15 thick wire connector
		1 GXi graphics accelerator frame buffer
		1 SUN VGA graphics board for DOS window

Comes loaded w/ following software:

		Xwindows	Windowing environment
		GNU Emacs	Very nice text editor
		GNU gcc		ANSI C compiler
		cc		SUN standard C compiler
		f77		Sun Fortran compiler
		Open Windows	SUN X Window environment

I also have documentation, boot and OS floppies.  This machine would make a 
great X terminal or application development workstation.  Sun also has a 
trade in program which would make this a perfect upgrade machine to a 
Sparcstation.

I am asking $2500.00 for this system.

Please respond to Gregg Phillips.
gregg@vexcel.com
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Phillips		|	  It's difficult to work in a group
Vexcel Corporation	|		when your omnipotent.
gregg@vexcel.com	|		      -	Q.  STNG -
Newsgroups: boulder.general