HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:58:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23506
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug20.152519.2977@ee.gatech.edu> wung@eecom.gatech.edu writes:
>JJ, now you are missing my point. 
I think not.

>The thing is, disgarding all this stuff about family, money, connections,
               ^^^^^^^^^^
Why disregard it?  That's my point, you ARE dismissing my point,
flat out. I am conceeding yours.

>etc.  Which is difficult to do, but for the sake of 
>arguement we need to isolate the root of the problem. 
I think we disagree fundamentally on the root of the problem. 
Or perhaps, we disagree in that I think there are multiple roots of
the problem.

>Somebody other than
>a white male, in this case an asian male, going into an interview with another white male will suffer for the previous experiences the interviewer has had
>with other asian males.  
Pardon me?  I think I did miss something.  Why would the interviewer experience
bad things from an asian male, for instance?  This interviewer has also
had bad experiences from lots of other things. Now, yes, the
interviewer is very likely to be prejudiced in addition, but that's
not from EXPerience, it's either from ignorance or a desire to be
prejudiced.  (and neither is excusable in any case)
And I agree with the fact that the interviewer is likely to be
prejudiced.

>Now, putting all the other stuff into the mix, i.e. the family, the money, the 
>connections, you are still one up on me because they look at all that stuff
>PLUS my face and family name and all of his perceptions of people
>who look like me and my heritage.  I do not intend for this to be
>acrimonious, but it frustrates me to have to battle this out, day in and
>day out.

And I don't agree that I'm significantly "one up".  I have already
said "a little bit", but frankly, damn little, and no comfort
to either of us.

That IS my point.  We both get bad treatment from the guy, and
we should BOTH work to try to get both of us better treatment.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
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From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One white boy
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:46:44 GMT
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

In article <23456@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy) writes:
>In article <25484@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>
>> my article deleted
>
>The smiley face is so noted.  On the other hand, I have a rather
>good feeling for what it's like to be in circles where I'm
>the only clueless old white boy (or any kind of white boy) around.
>For various reasons, I've found myself in this situation more times
>that, I suspect, most people.  Perhaps this makes me both more
>and less tolerant.  Why?  Because I know, to some extent, the
>self-imposed isolation that can result, and because I also know
>the "natural" results of being a suspect outsider.

There you go again with your self-congratulatory "I'm sensitive
and you're not" routine.  Has it not occured to you that for
most Asian Americans being the "suspect outsider" is a daily
fact of life?  In my line of work, practically every meeting or 
conference I go to I'm the only visible minority in a sea of 
white males (and occasionally some white females). Every time I
leave a message on a phone machine, I take care to spell my name
instead of saying it. In both daily routines and on social
occasions, I'm interacting with 95%+ non-Asians in a second 
language and adopted culture, so what makes you so qualified to
pat yourself on the back. Because you happen to be a self-professed 
"clueless white boy" having similar experiences ?

Joe Huang

(born in Nanjing, infancy in Shanghai, childhood in Hongkong,
 teenage in Denver, college in Palo Alto, sabbatical in Italy,
 work in Korea, travel in Japan, etc., etc.)
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Nick at Nite (was Re: Accountability, or rather...)
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:55:09 GMT
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim)
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <16p08fINNocr@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:
>No, because he is afraid the people he will meet in the future will 
>believe the lies coming out of miserable neo-communist mealy-mouths 
>like you.

Good start.  :-)

>But JJ, I think you should do more than just respond to his ceaseless 
>lying.  How far is the drive from Jersey to Boston? I personally think
>Andy Shaw should be held personally accountable for his lies--with a 
>good beating. A baseball bat or hammer to the forehead can do wonders 
>to clear up his thinking. It's also harder to tell lies when one's 
>nose and jaw are broken.

Geez Nick, even for you that's a touch extreme, no?  But then again, judging
from your other three posts, maybe not.

What kind of a human being are you anyway?  You'd actually advocate beating
somebody with a baseball bat or a hammer to the head?  Why?  Because you
disagree with what they said?

Geez, calm down a little.  I get into as many arguments here as anybody, but
even I don't get that hyped up.

I can't believe this newsgroup has gotten so bad that some people are actually
advocating violence against each other.

Jim

p.s. Living in Berkeley must be real interesting for someone like you, eh?
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:35:28 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>IF you are discriminated against in this country, you have recourse to legal
>action to try to correct what you feel to be an injustice. This is NOT true
>most other places, as you no doubt know from your travels. Perfect? No. But
>it IS better than nothing.

I think this is what separates the US from other countries in terms of
racial discrimination.  Excellent point Mike.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:49:07 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization

In article <16udi9INNqj6@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>I just read the following piece in the San Francisco
>chronicle (August 18). It is from a feature called
>"question man" in which a reporter asks various questions
>at different places around town. Today's question:
>
>              "WHAT IS TACKY TODAY"
>
>(answers regarding people begging, the Catholic church,
>parents hitting kids, and department stores deleted)
>
>    "Miya Dodd, 15, student, Tulsa: (answers)
>     Having so many Orientals in the continental U.S.A. 
>     Coming to S.F. I expected to see surfers and here are all 
>     these Orientals. I'm part Japanese. I'm used to being the
>     one who is different! Seeing so many in the U.S.A. is
>     getting on my nerves."
>
>Weird, I thought. Is this a common attitude out in Tulsa?
>Actually now that I think about it, it reflects the 
>"exotic asian girlfriend" theory. Are AF's considered 
>more exotic out in the midwest? They certainly aren't 
>a rarity here at U.C. Berkeley (enrollment is about 1/3 asian)
>What about AM?

I saw this, too, and thought it was rather strange. Perhaps she was referring 
to all the tourists (remember, this WAS an interview in San Francisco), who
behave, well, like tourists. 

Actually, her comment on surfers indicates that she's pretty typical of 
US tourists here; they're the ones freezing in their shorts and cotton shirts
while all us natives are wearing jackets (leather's the best) and jeans. 
The Japanese and Chinese tourists seem a LITTLE better prepared for our
"summers" (perhaps because the Chinese may have friends/relatives here, and 
most of the Japanese guide books I've seen recommend wearing a sweater (though
even THAT'S useless against the wind)).

Anyway in the midwest (which Oklahoma is NOT a part of, BTW) there are not
many Asians outside of the larger cities, though there should be rather a
lot at the universities. Perhaps she simply felt "special" in Oklahoma, and
"one of the crowd" in San Francisco (one of the reason I like it here).

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
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man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Subject: What do E. Hall, M. Kamprath, J. Waldrop, and M. Fester have in common?
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.
Distribution: soc
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:45:05 GMT


Well, one thing is that they were the only ones, along with Mark Day, who
responded to my challenge to James (aka "JJ") to reveal his real name and
accept responsibility and accountability for the stuff he writes, and in
particular, any charges he made against my character.  They (with the
exception of Mark) seem to be much enamoured with the capabilities of
cyberspace, and equate aliases with real names.  i.e. "Sure, my bboard
handle is the same as a real name: you can send me e-mail and it took me 2
whole years to build up my reputation as WonderDog, which I treasure with
all of my heart".

Uh huh.

I'll leave the rest of you geniuses figure out the other thing those boys
have in common.

Frankly, it would be pretty ridiculous of Mark to pull that "cyberspace =
real world" line, considering his office is three flights up the stairs and
down the hall from mine.  I think we have a fairly good grip on the fact
that there are real people and real lives associated with this NetWorld
game, whether we want to or not.

And yes, JJ, you have the right to keep your alias.  Big Bad Andy isn't
going to tease you anymore.  Keep your little hoody on, and stop crying.
That's a good boy.

I think at least a few more people out there realize the difference between
the commitment taken by those of us using our real names, and the cowardice
and impotence of those accusations, charges, and opinions made by those of
us who choose not to stand behind their words with their real names and
reputations.  With that, I will do as I once asked Jim Pak to do, and stop
teasing the dumb kid.

Yours in Chinkiness,

Andy Shaw
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8298 alt.culture.us.asian-indian:531
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: friednships....
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:36:52 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <286mj8k.cass@netcom.com>, cass@netcom.com (Diana
Tenery-Fisher) writes:
|>From: cass@netcom.com (Diana Tenery-Fisher)
[Friendship philosophy deleted]

|>I am a born and bred Californian. I have always felt a bit out of the
|>norm because the people I went to school with were very concerned about
|>things I considered superficial and silly.  The things *I* wanted to talk 
|>about (literature, philosophy, religion, etc.) were not of any interest to
|>most of the people I knew. Since being in college, I have met a more 
|>racially diverse group of people and find that the sad truth is most
|>Americans tend to be complacent, superficial people. (That isnt to say
|>that people from other countries cant be complacent or superficial) 
|>But in my experience my most memorable conversations have been with 
|>Asian-Indian people. (I should say men, since I dont know any AI women)
|>The men I tend to be attracted to are AI. I may just be lucky. I may
|>be meeting people that arent 'the norm' of that culture either. But they
|>are pretty incredible to me. They dont seem to be hung up on the things
|>that Americans have beat into their heads every day as they grow up. 

This is really interesting. Are you speaking about people who grew up
in America or India?

One of the things that turns me off about desis is their superficiality.
I went to this party the other night, the Indiapendence Day Bash, and 
most of the people I spoke to their were pretty shallow. The guys were
all Euro'd out with their big suits on, etc. 

Another thing that seems to be difficult around here is breaking into the
crowd of desi-americans. I've gone to a couple of these parties, and I 
do know a couple of people from grad school there, but it seems like 
everyone knows everyone else. Its one big clique.

By the way, I brought a white buddy of mine and he was thoroghly dissed
by a couple of desi females. He was one of about 5-6 whites there. There
were no african americans in attendance in party of a couple hundred. 
Not very diverse I would say.

|>I am not pre-judiced against Americans, I keep an open mind about every
|>human being.  But, as I look back over the last few years I see the trend
|>in my life to be around people that are not from this country originally. 
|>My dearest friend is from India and is an incredible human being. Maybe
|>it is just a coincidence, who knows? I can only speak for myself. 
|>
|>Diversity is intense. The differences in our existense makes us humans. 
|>True humanity is found in recognizing and accepting. (I believe)
|>
|>(this has been my 4 1/2 cents.. thanks... )
|>
|>diana

Diversity is a good thing as long as we remain truly diverse and not 
tribalistic and nationalistic.

Ron
                                                                              
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Ung-Ho Yi <ungyi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:33:09 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


 yes, i was very very impressed and happy with his win.
 when i use to be a little boy in korea, i have heard the story
 about a korean winning a marathon under japenese flag many,
 many times.  infact, i belive this is a very memorable, and
 frustrating and even bitter history to majority of koreans.
 
 i hope i am not sounding too anti-japenese, infact this win 
 might improve the feelings between korea and japen.
 
 p.s. i know there's been a lot of flames going around
 in this group lately, so please understand that none was
 intended and if anyone feel offended please forgive me.
 
 
 yi
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Group Rights vs. Individual Rights
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:52:37 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Aug12082736@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>"Rights" are a baseline, the bottom, what every human being is entitled to,
>regardless of his or her race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, or
>whatever.

I don't look at things this way.  My rights are a list of things that
the government, in particular, or any more powerful group should not
do to me.

>Lui belittles the concept of group power for Asian-Americans

The problem is that if you are a minority and you play the "us versus
them" game, then you will lose.  Since we are a minority there are
fewer of "us" than there are of "them."  The only way to win is to
have a society in which you are not thought of as "them."
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What Separates Us?
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:30:24 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Distribution: soc
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <SHAW.92Aug14015434@whopper.lcs.mit.edu>,
shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
|>From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
|>Subject: What Separates Us?
|>Date: 14 Aug 92 06:54:34 GMT
|>
|>In a previous post, I mentioned that the first order of business in
[Bunch of Stuff Deleted]

|>
|>  c.  Are Indian-Americans Asian-Americans?  I think so, but why?

Man, I can't believe that this is even a question! What the hell are we?
Just from perusing the articles, I've noticed that I'm the only Indian-Am
posting to the group. This could be due to a lot of reasons, maybe one of
them the incessant ignorant posts equating Caucasoids with Whites. 

Also from reading some of the posts I can see that I identify with many
of the same problems that others in this group have faced. 

So, by all means include us (Indian Americans) in the discussion and 
you'll start to see more postings in this group by IAs. I ignored the
group until Clare coaxed me into reading it.


Ron


|>
|>Our root cultures are so different, why should we work together, and what
|>do we have in common?

Lots!

|>-Andy
                                                                        
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: NAAAP info
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:48:24 GMT

Several netters have asked me for NAAAP contact person/fone# so I
thought I might as well post the info here.  For those that are not
interested, sory for taking up some bandwidth.

	Chicago NAAAP:  President Roger Fong @ 708-205-2889
			Hotline (w. voice mail): 312-918-2454
			(call the hotline for info about current
			events)

	Seattle AMBA :  President Judy Yu @ 206-621-9507
	
	Boston	     :  President Judy Yung @ 617-895-2233

	New York     :  President Jean Woo  @ 212-819-0707
			Hotline : 212-514-8194
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:40:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23510
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <2A9401D8.18887@orion.oac.uci.edu> jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
>Yeah ... but you should see what the guys who are really virile can do.
Why should we care?

Why even bother saying the above?

Pfui.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, Andy's lack of it.
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:21:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23473
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <SHAW.92Aug17204022@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>In article <16p08fINNocr@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:

>Wow Nick ... long time, no see.
Not long enough, if this article is any suggestion...

>Either that, or you're some ultra-radical "person of color" pretending to
>be a white guy.  I mean, nobody could be this stupid in real life ... could
>they?
I'm wondering about that myself.  I must say I AM relieved that he
suggested *I* do something like that, because I know damn well 
I won't.  If he suggested ANYONE do it, I think I'd have to call
the police.  If he said he might do it, I know I would.

Andy, as much as I dislike your rhetorical tactics and the way
you feel free to defame people, it pales in comparison to
this article that is alledgedly by Byram.  I hope you
won't feel intimidated.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Accountability, or rather, Andy's lack of it.
Keywords: Just go punch him out, JJ.
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:37:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug17.203712.19110
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <16p08fINNocr@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:
>But JJ, I think you should do more than just respond to his ceaseless 
>lying.  How far is the drive from Jersey to Boston? I personally think
>Andy Shaw should be held personally accountable for his lies--with a 
>good beating. A baseball bat or hammer to the forehead can do wonders 
>to clear up his thinking. It's also harder to tell lies when one's 
>nose and jaw are broken.
>
>Peel away the "People of Color" rhetoric, and we only find one color--Red.

	How true, how true.
-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: friendships....
Date: 16 Aug 92 18:18:35 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <1992Aug16.172050.25767@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
>===================================
> cass@netcom.com (Diana Tenery-Fisher) writes:

[a born and bred Californian writes: inter alia]

>>I am not pre-judiced against Americans, I keep an open mind about every
>>human being. 
>

Tapesh Yadav responds:

> Diana, you are just lucky. Just too lucky. :)
>
> My experience runs differently. I find that superficiality is the norm all
> over this planet. The incredible humans that I have met come from different
...
> incredible asian indians I have met are few, too few. I find as many 
> superficial americans as superficial asian indians and superficial anywhere
> else.

[in deleting any of TY's stuff it is impossible not to
delete relevant stuff; I won't bother restating them, anyway]

I kind of agree with the second sentiment. In my case, most of the
non-"my own milieu"- friendships (or with the majority when it
is not the same) are "non-superficial". This is true here and back in
India. Being a Tamil, in a school with most Tamils my best friend was a
Maharashtrian. In college where most were Marathi speaking it was a Bengali
and  so on. And, in the US, (forgetting the target audience for this
newsgroup for the moment :-) there is an inherent commonality (of being
Indian) - whereas with the others the friendship does not form in the
absence of something shared - whether that is deep or superficial
obviously is a value judgment dependent on one's present station 
and this train doesn't stop here. :-)

Sthan.

>T.Y.
>----
>tyadav@athena.mit.edu

PS. There are exceptions to the general rule, of course - such as
getting to correspond with `netters' by email ...
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american