HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dms50304@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darkman)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:08:01 GMT

Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com> writes:

>In  <BruL3A.IwD@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  acc23403@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Anthony C.) writes:
>> I dont think that you can use a paperclip to pick locks where the
>> springs of the pins have a normal tension.  A paperclip does not
>> have enough tensile strength to be used as a pick.

>I've done it in an emergency (the *one* time I went out without my picks).
>Opened a Master padlock with a couple of paperclips.

Master locks should be on a list of the top 10 worst locks.  Some (maybe most)
can almost be opened by merely inserting the pick, if that doesn't work wiggle
it a bit, and voila.  I don't have much confidence in them.  My bike lock is
Master lock which I can pick in about 5-10 secs.  That brings up another
criticism.  On my lock, the cylinder is open on the other side which means if
you push all the pins down and push the pick back, you can use the pick to pry
back the hammer.  Way too easy... I know it sounds weird that I have a lock I
don't trust, but plan on getting a new one somtime, just too lazy... :)

-- 
___________________________________________________________.
|   Daryn Sharp    /\ University of Illinois /\ Engineering |
| Darkman@uiuc.edu \/    Champaign-Urbana    \/  CS Major   | 
!___________________________________________________________!
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re:  Electronic Picks
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:47:30 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <3#bmm#p.jspinnow@netcom.com>, John Stewart Pinnow writes:

 J> Could anyone tell me if computerize picks are available? Do they actually
 J> work if they do exist?
 
 Well I tried to make an electric pick from an old electric tootbrush once,
 but it didn't work at all: the brush went sideways *and* up&down...
 So then I used an electric razor: It did work, but it felt like trying to 
 grab a hair with ovengloves, so I switched back to my own tools.
 There are some tips on these picks in one of the eddy the wire books, and in
 the book _Advanced lockpicking_ (forgot the author, sorry).
From: spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Those MasterLocks
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:03:10 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato Computer Centre

In article <1992Jul26.211804.22953@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu>, gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu (Gil Young) writes:
>  .. I come out to the shed and see a bullet hole through my lock
>   (and the shed, and my fertilizer, etc. [not that I *have* a
>   shed) and I want to open the shed?  That's right, I can't get
>   my key into a lock with a damn bullet hole in it, can I?  What
>   do you Knowledgeable Locksmith People say about that?

Get a heavier calibre platinum bullet.

______________________________________________________________________________
 spt@grace.waikato.ac.nz - Simon P Travaglia   Voice: 064 7 8384008  "Hello?"
Computer Services, Waikato University, Private Bag 3105, Hamilton, New Zealand
 -- Elvis Presley is alive and writing my signatures at Waikato University --
Disclaimer: Elvis would agree with me, but he's got dirt in his mouth.
______________________________________________________________________________

I realize that today you have a number of top female athletes such as Martina
 Navratilova who can run like deer and bench-press Chevrolet trucks.  But to 
 be brutally frank, women as a group have a long way to go before they reach 
 the level of intensity and dedication to sports that enables men to be such
 incredible jerks about it. 		-- Dave Barry, "Sports is a Drag"
From: tim@introl.introl.com (Tim Chase)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Security of Master combination locks
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:17:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: introl.1992Jul25.221719.26693
Organization: Introl Corp.

In article <14pg2hINNcv5@agate.berkeley.edu> lipman@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Everett Lipman) writes:
>
>I have not had any experience with non-destructive methods of opening
>master combination locks, but they can be easily opened in under 5
>minutes with a pair of regular pliers and a flat blade screwdriver.

Actually, there's a much easier destructive method of opening master
combination locks, especially if they're on a locker.  All you've got
to do is stick a large bolt or other lever through the shackle and pry
it open.  After you're done, you can just snap it shut again and it'll
actually stay closed.

This may not work with newer versions as far as I know, but I've seen
them in stores and they're pretty cheap.  I suspect they're still pretty
weak.

-- 
Tim Chase		           Introl Corp. Milwaukee, WI USA
UUCP: spool.mu.edu!introl!tim	Internet: tim@introl.com
   or tim@introl.uucp		   Phone: +1 (414) 327-7171
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: whittg@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Graham B. Whitted Iv)
Subject: Picking Master Combo Locks
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:25:43 GMT


	I have just join this newsgroup, and am very happy to be able to
give my two cents worth.  I have been following the discussion of picking
master combination locks.  I find this mildly amusing, since i have been
doing this since high school, and usually well under one minute (personal 
best is about fifteen seconds), however in the worst case can be upto
five minutes.  Anyway here is how to do it.
	If you pull on the lock as if trying to open it, and then try to 
turn the dial, you will notice that the dial will becom "locked" at 
only certain positions on the dial. A matter of fact there are exactly
12 ( three for each set of ten).  Three of these twelve numbers make
up the combination.  You only need to find on the three in a set of ten,
because the numbers will repaet in each set of ten. 

Example - Lets say I find the three numbers to be 2 6 8 then the 12 numbers
are 2 6 8 12 16 18 22 26 28 32 36 38.

Okay, now for some reason unknown to me the way to find the first number
doesn't work for all locks, buti have to say about 90% it does.  If you
pull the lock about half way down so that you still can turn the dial,
and turn the dial clockwise, you will feel the lock begin to pull down
and pop back up at one number.  Now add five to this number and that is 
your first number. 

Now all that is left to do is find the second number, which is one of the
magic twelve numbers above.  I usually just start at the next possible
number and work my way up.

Example - Using the twelve numbers above, lets say i find my first 
number to be 12.  I would then try the combo 12 - 16, and for the third
number i just work my way back thourgh the series starting at 18 pull
the lock at each number, if it opens, then that is your combo.

The worst case scenario is when the first number can not be found, i
have a large number of master locks that i have found, and when this
occurs i have been able to guess at the first number based on the serial
numbers on the back, but it doesn't always work.  Sometimes the only
way to find the combo is to try all twelve of the magic numbers as your 
first number and repeat the above steps for each.

One last trick for finding the last number, if the lock is open when
found, if you insert a ball point pen into the open chamber, and pull 
the lever up and turn the dail clockwise the effect described above 
will occur and is very noticeable, this method even works for locks
that i'm unable to get the first number from when they are locked.

Unfortunatley this method is easier to demonstrate than to describe,
I will do my best to answer any questions.

latyr  whittg@rpi.edu

ps - I had seen messages about a FAQ, but have yet to see a FAQ post.
does one exist? if so when will it be posted?

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Technology News, IIT, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:48:00 GMT

> D> On my lock, the cylinder is open on the other side which means if you 
> D> push all the pins down and push the pick back, you can use the pick to pry
> D> back the hammer.  Way too easy... I know it sounds weird that I have a lock
> D> I don't trust, but plan on getting a new one somtime, just too lazy... :)

>Sorry, I just know how to pick locks which doesn't mean I know the correct
>terminology. By "hammer", I'm referring to the bar that fits in the notch on
>shackle of the lock.  Since the cylinder is open, you can use the pick to
>slide it out the notch and viola, open lock is 2 secs.  Not very secure huh?

	I've encountered this with cheap padlocks. What happens is, in most
padlocks the core has an extension of a semi-circle which extends beyond the
end of the pins. When the core is turned, this piece pushes the locking
lever, releasing the shackle.

	On a cheap lock, you can insert a small steel pin all the way down
the keyway until it stops. Now force this small bar to push ALL the pins
all the way in, so the bar is parallel to the keyhole, and all the way
down on the pin side. Push down the keyway further, then pull hard in
the direction of the pins. This will lever the locking bar and release
the shackle.

The best way to understand this way of springing a padlock is to buy one and
take it apart. The cheap (non-master!!!) laminated steel locks sold by OSCO
are what I learned the trick on.

                   |_____________________|               %= locking bar
                                         |  %%%        ~~~=pick
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~         I =pins             
                    ____________________________                             
                       I I I I                                  
                   |____________________________

Basically, instead of TURNING the cylinder to move the bar, you simply lever
the bar manually.
-- 
                                "forty-two"
                                             - Douglas Adams

technews@iitmax.iit.edu                           kadokev@harpo.iit.edu
                         My Employer Disagrees.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:03:19 GMT

   Okay, I'm new to locksmithing also. I understand that each pin in a lock
must be depressed to different depths and only to those depths in order for
the cylinder to be turned. So, once you've got a pick (be it a safety pin or
whatever), how do you get each pin depressed the right amount when you've
only got one um... pin-depressor? Do you keep the torque applied the whole
time so each time you get a pin to the correct depth, it will sorta stick on
the edge of its receptor hole?

-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
$ smills@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu $ That's the way it crumbles... cookie-wise.  $
$ MuffinHed@aol.com           $          -Jack Lemmon, "The Apartment"      $
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:54:50 GMT

In <spencer.711677323@infs4> spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer) writes:
>struggle@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (robotron) writes:

>>	Last Saturday I locked myself out of my house and I had to 
>> sleep in the open sky to feed myself to the mosquitos. Now I wish I 
>> had the skill to unlock my door.

>Yeah Yeah , if anyone replies with info can they send it to me too. 
>However I do find it unlikely that you will get a replie people in 
>alt.locksmithing seem to be unfreindly towards strangers!

Errrm, I think that's a bum rap.  Like any newscrowd, the people here
embody a range of skills, from total neophyte, through several who
pursue this avidly as avocation, and at least one as vocation.  If
you're seeing any "unfreindly"[sic] responses, it may be because
people feel (analogy) that asking "my screen is dim, how can I fix it?"
after weeks of discussion of contrast knobs, books on contrast knob
adjustment, diagrams of contrast knob adjustment tools, etc. is more
than a little rude.

This may be exaggerated by disgust at flagrant misspelling and grammatical
errors, or irritation at the prospect of having to hand-reformat 400 
character quoted lines from people who don't seem to know where the 
"return" key is.


-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: acc23403@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Anthony C.)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:16:16 GMT

amb@cs.columbia.edu (andrew m. boardman) writes:

>In article <072192150346dude@losers.hacktic.nl> dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:
>> Nobody can open a lock with just one paperclip or picking tool (I don't
>> think a jimmy qualifies as a 'picking' tool).

>Weeelllllll....  For cheap padlocks, or *really* cheap larger ones (i.e.,
>Kwikset, or the very worn Yales around here), it's doable to use the pick
>to apply torque as well as manipulate the pins.  The pick has to be
>fairly wide for this to work, though.  A paperclip is indeed right out...

>andrew
I dont think that you can use a paperclip to pick locks where the
springs of the pins have a normal tension.  A paperclip does not
have enough tensile strength to be used as a pick.  Streetcleaner
bristles on the other hand work well.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: amb@cs.columbia.edu (andrew m. boardman)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Slug Hordes of the Planet Gamma
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:28:47 GMT

acc23403@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Anthony C.) writes:
>I dont think that you can use a paperclip to pick locks where the
>springs of the pins have a normal tension.  A paperclip does not
>have enough tensile strength to be used as a pick.  Streetcleaner
>bristles on the other hand work well.

Not at all.  Granted, they're lousy material, but as an emergency
contingency measure they work OK. What works for me is to bend it so...

_________/\

and resting the lower edge on a random ridge in the keyway, so that the
clip's bendful properties don't come in to play; the bend is plenty
strong enough for pushing pins, and if you need to get past a pin that's
set in a lower position, there's usually enough flex and/or twist to
squeeze by.  It's actually harder to make a half-assed tension wrench out
of a paperclip than the pick itself...

andrew
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:29:12 GMT

In article <spencer.712196117@infs3> spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer) writes:
>jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>
>>			Exactly!  That's why you need
>>			a torsion wrench as well as a
>>			pick.  First, you apply a bit
>>			of torque to the lock with the
>>			wrench, then you start to fool
>>			with the pins.
>
>So, when you get the pin in the correct position to start with 
>how do you know that it is their? Does it sort of click in?

Usually the cylinder will 'give' slightly when a pin shears off.


>Also is their any affective way of opening a combination lock like
>those on safes?

Yes, but on a decent safe it is very time-consuming, takes a lot of
'feel', practice, and probably instruction from someone who can do it.
Larry posted some quick instructions on how to do it a while back, but
I was unsuccessful on all the safes I tried.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern      | "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  If I am only for myself, who am I?" -Hillel
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: so@fortran.cs.psu.edu (Nicol C. So)
Subject: Security of Master combination locks
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:11:36 GMT

I am using a Master combination lock to secure my storage, but somebody
pointed out that this kind of lock can be defeated in less than a minute,
which sounds really scary to me.  Can somebody tell me what kind of
approach people use to defeat Master combination locks (not including
sledgehammers, of course)?  If this kind of lock is not secure, what
would be a good padlock to use for a rented storage?
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: flatline@eskimo.celestial.com (Flatline)
Subject: Re: Security
Organization: I tattooed my brain all the way...
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:30:09 GMT

In article <JNyDoB2w165w@hacktic.nl> bill@hacktic.nl (Bill Squire) writes:
>willic6@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu (Charles Williams) writes:
>
>> How secure are Master Combination locks. Not the fancy ones, just the spin-di
>> 
>> Thanks,
>
>While in theory there are 64,000 combinations, in practice there are more
>like 1000 combinations since you can be +/-2 marks off and it will still
>work.  In effect there are about ten possible positions on the dial.  I had
>a friend, when he was a kid, loved to steal peoples Master locks.  I've
>seen this person open a Master combination lock in less than thirty
>seconds!  He says one minute is tops.  The Master is probably even less
>secure than the push-button Simplex locks that guard lots of sensitive
>things in the USA.  Here in Europe everyone seems to be wise to both types
>of lock and neither is ever used as a "primary source of security" in any
>application.
>
>                                                        Bill

yikes. this is scary. what is the exact technique used to open a master spin-dial lock? at my high school, they have these lockers with Master locks on them, the spin-dial kind. they are attached directly to the locker, not the padlock type. If you leave it on the last number of the combo without spinning it, you can open the lock simply by pulling on the lockers opening mechanism. there is a small keyhole in the very center for a master key. my question is, how can I beat the combos on these, pick the cen
ter hole, make a master key, or otherwise open the locker? thanks. 

also, does anyone have a list of combos to be tried that would prob hit in the +2/-2 range, or a list of the most freq programmed combos for Master locks?

-- 
I've always been mad, I know I've    | get out of my face and watch me die
been mad, like the most of us...     | 
very hard to explain why you're mad, |    flatline@eskimo.celestial.com
even if you're not mad...            | 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:14:45 GMT

spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer) writes:


>Yeah Yeah , if anyone replies with info can they send it to me too. However I do find it unlikely that you will get a replie people in alt.locksmithing seem to be unfreindly towards strangers!A


OK OK,  SORRY! ! !

I was completly wrong Alt.locksmithing isn't quite that bad - maybe their was a hole in the line somewhere but I 
asked (twice) for info on how to get started on lockpicking and didn't get a single replie.

Finaly after the above message someone mailed me (and a few others abused me in-area) and I now know how to get started.


So Thanks for the belated replies and sorry for upsetting anyone.

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Elec Eng, Univ of Western Australia
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:15:17 GMT

jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:

>			Exactly!  That's why you need
>			a torsion wrench as well as a
>			pick.  First, you apply a bit
>			of torque to the lock with the
>			wrench, then you start to fool
>			with the pins.

So, when you get the pin in the correct position to start with 
how do you know that it is their? Does it sort of click in?

Also is their any affective way of opening a combination lock like
those on safes?

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Security
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:53:19 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Jul31.082518.2824@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>  billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
> Close. For the common locks, this is basicaly true. There are not "pins",
> as such, but there are projections on the discs that are used to "pick up"
> the next disc.  There may also be more than 3 discs in a 3 combination lock.
> What happens is: You turn the knob one direction - the first thing that
> happens is all the discs are turned to the initialization setting and then
> dropped, except for the first disc - it keeps turning. When you change
> direction (turning past zero), the projections on that disc pick up the
> second disc. When you change directions again, the projections on the
> second disc pick up the third disc. At this point, the gates on the three
> discs are line up, but they are not lined up with the shackle release
> mechanism. That happens when you complete turning the disc to the proper
> number.

I'm not sure what you're describing here, but generally the dial turns
a driver wheel, which has a pin to pick up the first combination wheel,
which has a pin to pick up the second combination wheel, etc.  As you
continue turning in one direction, you pick up all the wheels, and they
just keep turning.  When you reverse direction, you have to make one
full turn in order to pick up the first combination wheel again, then
another for the second, etc.  That's why when dialing the combination,
you make one complete turn less each time.  You start by making at least
N+1 turns in one direction to pick up all the wheels, then go to the first
number (which corresponds to the Nth wheel), then reverse direction and
dial N times to the N-1th number (which leaves the Nth wheel where it was
and sets the N-1th wheel), etc. until you dial the last number (corresponding
to the first combination wheel), then reverse back to the drop-in point and
open the lock.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:52:09 GMT

andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern) writes:
: 
: >Also is their any affective way of opening a combination lock like
: >those on safes?
: 
: Yes, but on a decent safe it is very time-consuming, takes a lot of
: 'feel', practice, and probably instruction from someone who can do it.
: Larry posted some quick instructions on how to do it a while back, but
: I was unsuccessful on all the safes I tried.

Some locks you can "feel". Others are impossible. They are often opened
by using "tryout" combinations.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Please teach me how to open locks
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:37:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.074104.1974@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>spencer@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Greg Spencer) writes:
>:
>: Yeah Yeah , if anyone replies with info can they send it to me too. However I do find it unlikely that you will get a replie people in alt.locksmithing seem to be unfreindly towards strangers!
>
>No. The problem is that such a thing is impossible. Buy a good book on
>locksmithing. Then you can buy or make your own tools and practice a
>lot. Loompanics Books or Paladin Press should have what you want.
>
>Bill

	Paladin offers a whole bunch of books on locksmithing and
	other unusual pastimes.  Their address is:

	Paladin Press
	Post Office Box 1307
	Boulder
	COLORADO 80306.

	Alec Chambers.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing