From: nathans@coos.dartmouth.edu (Nathan Shafer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Kobyashi and Kirk
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:49:58 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Apr14.055032.15811@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.205804.24974@uunet.uu.net>, kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes...
>>v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>> > The point of the KM test is not to teach the cadets to face
>> > death with resignation and dignity!  Not at all.  The point
>> > is to put them in a simulated situation in which they can
>> > see what their reaction to death and a no-win situation will
>> > be - because it's not the kind of thing, no-win and all,
>> > that you're gonna get a second chance at in real life.
>> 
>>I don't think it achieves its objective.  The cadet always
>>knows "it's just a simulation."  The simulation Wesley had was
>>much better.  It worked because Wes thought it was real.

   Let's face it; the whole point of the Kobayashi Maru test was the
same as the point of the temporal loop in "Cause and Effect": to allow
the writers to blow up the Enterprise and kill everyone aboard without
ending the story!! All this rationalizing is not going to change that!
That being said...

>The no-win simulations given to the cadets in TWOK's days (and I am
>assuming there is more than one variety, because Saavik reacts,
>"Damn..." when hearing that it's the Kobyashi Maru, as if there are
>others and this one is the worst) are different.

   That's not quite right. Saavik asks for the manifest on the Kobayashi
Maru, and is informed that it carries a crew of about 80, and over 200
or so passengers. In other words, a LOT of people are going to die if
she doesn't help out, and that's when she says "damn." We find out that
it's the Kobayashi Maru in the first segment of the distress signal:
"This is the Kobayashi Maru...we have struck a gravitic mine...can you
assist us Enterprise, can you...[garble]"

    I do think it is likely, however, that the person taking the
Kaobayashi Maru test does not know beforehand what is about to happen.
Saavik's reaction strikes me as much more appropriate ("I do not think
this was a fair test of my command abilities...because there was no way
to win") if we assume that she had no idea that she was facing a test
*designed* to be unbeatable.

>> > Kirk REFUSED to face death in the simulation.  He refused
>> > to take advantage of the net Starfleet was offering him.
>> > He paid the price in TWOK.
>> 
>>Well, in reality, since Kirk had somehow found out about the
>>simulation beforehand, it wouldn't have had the desired ewffect
>>on him anyway, even if he got so caught up in the simulation that
>>he forgot it was a simulation.

    Where does this come from, btw, that he found out about the
simulation beforehand? he only reprogrammed it after having taken it
three times, not prior to his first time taking it!

>     I always wondered if the simulations weren't given like regular
>tests and many times it's just  a normal simulation to test only the
>cadet's ability to command during regular operations.  Once during all
>those regular simulations they would zing the no-win scenario at you.
>And if you or they felt you could do better, they would zing it at you
>again, maybe more than once - at random.  This explains Kirk having
>been able to take it four times when Saavik is obviously at the very
>end of her Academy years when she FIRST takes it.
>     But that's idle speculation...

    Idle speculation that fits the facts. For what it's worth, I agree.

Nathan Shafer
Dartmouth College, NH
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current