From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.dreams
Subject: Re: [alt.dreams] Re: McElwaine's postings (was Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, and Dreams)
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:14:36 GMT
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk

[ I am directing followups to alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk, since even this
  discussion is *not* appropriate for alt.dreams.  However, I'd like those
  who became aware of the issue to be aware of where they can go to continue
  the discussion.  --Gary ]

In <1992Nov16.144854.9296@ms.uky.edu> morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:

> Um, his privileges aren't being revoked yet; see my comments below.

> ...
> I suggest that we take a step back and look at the entire picture.

> Mr. McElwaine has been sending materials to several (many?) electronic
> mailing lists and bulletin boards.  These materials seem to have little
> in common with the ongoing discussions on those lists/boards/groups.  I
> would suggest that the mere existence of a mailing list does NOT imply
> that it may be used as a forum for unlimited free expression...

I find myself on both sides of the issue.  On the one hand, I am annoyed
to find some of the things McElwaine has been posting to some newsgroups
I frequent which have very little, if anything, to do with the subject
matter of the newsgroup.  Just as bad, Robert has made no attempt to even
respond to requests that he attempt to make a connection, even if in the
form of some introduction which provides his own opinion.  He seems to be
in the business of just plastering prefabricated electronic tracts on his
favorite subjects hither and yon.  I strenuously object to this kind of
activity.

But let's look at the non-electronic analogue - it seems to be someting
like notices posted on telephone poles, the way I recall they are in
the fair town of Berkeley, California, where I was once a student.  One
can choose to read the stuff or not.  I was never annoyed by such things,
and would sometimes stop to read some particular notice that caught my
eye.

However, I would have objected had such things been bound into my text-
books, in the same way that I object to commercials in TV programs, which
is why I never watch commercial TV except for Star Trek, which I tape, so
I can zap the suckers when I watch the show later.  I have similar feel-
ings about the commercial announcements broadcast on the station platform
electronic displays on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit), so that when one
wants to get information about which train is approaching, it may be
necessary to read an ad.  Some people don't mind.  I do.  I feel that a
public service - paid for by taxes (as is Internet, remember), should not
carry commercial announcements.  Maybe I'm straying a little bit away from
the discussion about McElwaine here - but I think he is selling something,
in a way; he's acting as an agent for a quasi-religious society, among
other things, perhaps.  What he's peddling are prefabricated ideas, which
makes them a lot like commercials.  They represent services sold at a
price.  (I would not feel the same way if someone were to talk about some
group, like Eckankar, if the person were talking about that organization
in an appropriate forum, using his or her own words, with an occasional
quote from some piece of literature published by the organization.  I
feel that such activity is perfectly legitimate.)

On the other hand, I believe in the principle of "let the punishment
fit the crime," and wonder whether the device of revoking network
privileges is an appropriate gesture to rid ourselves of the bother that
such things might represent.  Or is there some other principle at stake
here - does what McElwaine is doing really represent a misuse of his
Internet account?

I could spend more time developing an argument on either side, but I
don't have the time right now.  I just wanted to throw out a few ideas
at present.  What do others feel?

Gary
--
    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst