From: I3150101@DBSTU1.RZ.TU-BS.DE (Benedikt Rosenau)
Subject:      Re: The Bible As A Rorschach
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 21:41:02 MEZ
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Joe Beiter types:

>>Actually you've got it wrong. They just see no reason to believe in any
>>god or religion. Life works just as well without any religion or god, and
>>they don't have the hangups that adherence to a religion often brings.

>I see no difference.  Non-beleif is Belief in that non-belief.  You speak
>as though atheists are these 'free spirit' beings that have hit the next
>evolutionary point.  Sorry to burst yer bubble but your faith that God is
>not there is no different than my faith he is.  Blind faith.  I'll let you
>figger out why your faith is blind also.

Non-belief is Belief in that non belief? Bogus.

Let B(x) mean that someone believes some x. What you say is that
B(B(not x)) is the same as B(not x). This is an assumption, and hardly
one you can back up. Explanations for actions are usually B(B(x))
operations,while the actions themselves are usually based on the
belief (and not the belief of the belief).

Let's see if the following confuses you:
Assuming that justified belief in something means that it is true AND that
you believe it:
God exists if and only if Joe Beiter has not got justified belief ini it,
implies that god exists. It is true, believe me.(Credits to Raymond Smullyan)

(Deletions)

>>all atheism is, is an absence of belief. It is not any kind of belief
>>system,

>yea right. Whatever you say.  "you believe you don't believe so you're much
>better than them folks that 'believe'".

Again mistaking B(B(x)) for B(x).

>>Deloetions) do best. Nobody makes a fuss unless somebody tries to impose
>>themselves or their religion on us. Remember, this is OUR board, we can
>>talk about atheist problems, swap stories etc. and you have intruded with
>>your preconceived wrong ideas of what an atheist is.

>Thats funny, I thought it was OUR board to talk about atheist problems, swap
>stories etc...  Just joking.  The scene you present is absurd however.  This
>is Usenet and belongs to everyone. Don't beleive me then try to 'kick me out'.

About as obnoxious as Harold Platypus. There is always the resource of sending
mail to your postmaster. Quoting the above will help.

(Deletions of humor impaired text)
>>
>> (1) Explain why he should believe everything in the bible without using
>>     circular arguments (It is the word of God. Why? Because the bible
>>     says so. Why? Because it's the word of God.).

>gads here we go again.  For a people that hate circular arguments you sure
>walk in them alot.  I'm going to do you a favor and assume you are just
>talking and don't really want me to answer your questions.  Why?  Because
>you just told me you people don't like *others* coming in with their religion
>and spewing it all over the place.

>Heres a bright suggestion!  If you don't want to hear people talking about
>their stupid religion THEN DON'T ASK THEM ABOUT IT!!!!  Pretty simple eh?

He was as nice as to give you a fair chance of presenting your views in an
acceptable manner. You have missed it.


>I'm here to find out what makes you people so damm sure there is no God.
>Not to try and convince you there is one.  Frankly God may be concerned on
>your eternal future but I can't truthfully say that *I* am.  So lets not
>bother with what I think YOU should think about God ok?

and together with the following quote that I moved:
>But that aside, I came here expecting to find atheists and to see what they're
>all about.  I know what an atheist is.  Its not a complex notion.  Frankly I
find the idea of atheism pretty stupid and shallow minded so I'm trying to find
>out what you people see that I don't seem to.

Have you read the FAQ file? Atheism is not the belief in no gods, it is
lack of belief in gods. Belief in no gods is called strong atheism on
this group.
Reading the FAQ would give you some clues. I think you need them desperately.

(Deletions)

>Exactly.  Reality is constantly being discovered and we find out what we
>previously believed was reality was in fact not.  The fact that you realize
>this baffles me even more that you believe that you DO KNOW that there is
>no God.

Among the 'realities that have been discovered' is that badly defined concepts
will give bad results. I haven't seen your definition of god yet.
Anyway, how could you KNOW that there are no Invisible Pink Unicorns?

>
>To say "God" did it does not answer the question. To an atheist that
>creates another question. Who/what created "God", and then who or what
>made "God's" creator? The fundamentalist reply that nobody created "God"
>because "God" has always been there has an obvious answer: If nobody
>created "God", why does anybody have to have created the universe?

>Sure if you're narrowminded enough to assume you understand the nature of
>the universe enough to even ask a remotely intelligent question. Thats
>what scares me about Atheistic scientists.  Who knows what they'll assume
>to be fact?
(Deletions)

Atheism is a work hypothesis. A working work hypothesis, so far. Though I
believe that no evidence against it will be found, I would not deny that
evidence if it should be found.

Anyway, how can you actually go on believing in a god when other religions
say other things, and both your religion and their religion do not have
evidence for it? None can prove something. Or do you think that the fact
that people believe in gods is proof that they exist?
   Benedikt
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25848 talk.religion.misc:26033