HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:04:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.035128.13422@nuscc.nus.sg> elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.140232.23653@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>>>
>>>- Allan
>>Allan:
>>As a quiet reader, I have been totally disgusted by your repeated
>>accusations of mainlanders chauvinisms. Look in the mirror at you
>>yourself. To me, you are simply a pitiful, selfish, obnoxous snob.
>>You think you its right to look down at poorer people. By the way,
>>I think people in Taiwan are not yet wealthy by any standards:
>>They only appear to be rich in mainland. They pay too much for daily
>>necessities in Taiwan. They don't yet have all the nice public works
>>like Libraries, Clean air and other infrastructures. The industry
>>is merely copies from US or Japan when they dumped. That's why the
>>Taiwan government is in a six-year infrastructure campaign. Taiwan
>>is totally at mercy of big countries like US. It is merely a card to
>>play by the US. Now do you feel better?
>>Regards!
>>
>
>I do not think in Alan's posting, he has ever looked down any poor
>people at all.  All he was talking is to say "Don't force Taiwan to be
>part of Communist China, and let Taiwan has the weapon to defence
>herself".  I don't see that has anything to do with "pitiful, selfish,
>obnoxous snob".  You will be surprised to hear what you said.
I am sorry, I may have overreacted.
>
>I am not sure what your standard is for "wealthy".  But, I have to say
>one thing for the "libraries" you mentioned.  The number of libraries in
>Taiwan is quite sufficient.  One can go to any libraries in any
>universities(there are many universities in such a relatively small
>island), any county libraries, city libraries, national libraries and
>private libraries.  More then 80% of the people read newspaper everyday.  
>More than 60% of the families have computers at home.  Alomost all the
>offices in Taiwan use computers to do wordprocessing and accounting.
>There are so many book publishers, at least more than 1000 if you look
>at the yellow page, in Taiwan.  There are so many books everywhere you
>can find.
>
>I do agree that the environment is getting very polluted and needs to be
>cleaned up.  However, people have noticed the problem.
>
>I am not sure if Taiwan is relying on the big mercy of USA, but I know
>that Japan is growing under the USA protection.  And, certainly you guys
>from China are currently willing to be protected by the USA government.
>

There was an evaluation a while ago by the Taiwanese premier calling
people in Taiwan only small rich(Xiao Fu) but a poor big society. 
40 % of Taiwan's GNP depends on trade versus only 20 % of Japan vs
1% of mainland China. You can see why Taiwan is so dependent on a
big foreign power.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:07:46 GMT


In article <13SEP199211051202@phobos.ucc.umass.edu>, s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes...
> 
>The unification is really a matter of time.
>As even Allen Yang pointed out that once Mainland becomes more open, more
>democratic and economically more developed, the unification would be much
>more easier.

Not necessary, there is no timetable for reunification. If Mainland China 
is unable to achieve above goals, then no reunification. Agree?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: zhang@MEAVAX.NRRC.NCSU.EDU
Subject: Question concerning Protection Bill
Reply-To: zhang@MEAVAX.NRRC.NCSU.EDU
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:38:15 GMT

Hi, there,  I have a question concerniong the Protection Bill.
It is said that I need to be classified as an "employed-based".  What does 
this mean?  Can I file a petition if I am a full-time student?  
I will appreciate it if anyone can help me.     Thank you.
Yan-Ching
e-mail:  ygz@flyer.ncsc.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25545 soc.culture.taiwan:13362
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 14 Sep 1992 21:38:55 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <1992Sep14.020403.23116@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>In article <79658@ut-emx.uucp>, joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes...
>> 
>>The F-16's are "just in case."  I don't see any reason to be overly
>>concerned about them.  (Yes, I know that the United States violated
>>its 1982 agreements, but don't trust politicians too much.)
>
>"Taiwan Relations Act" passed by the U.S. Congress indicates the U.S. will 
>provide needed defense weapons to Taiwan.
>
>After all, Taiwan is just a buyer, she buys anything needed for defending 
>her security and interest. That's all. 
>
So, why CCP reacted as mad dog?
So, why mainland folks reacted as CCP is going to disappear foever?

A buyer has money to buy what he needs. It is simple a business deal.
ROC buys what fits its need to secure from mad dog attack. What is wrong?
From: PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Immigration Visa Number For 10, 92?
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:32:57 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Does anyone know the immigration visa information for October, 92?

Thanks for any help in advance.



-Peter
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25579 soc.culture.taiwan:13383
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:08:47 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <BuKDow.512@rlyeh.multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:

>Now, KMT's claim of KMT owns KMT's Tibet, Mongolia and Mainland
>China and preparing to invade and recover KMT's claim is
>the main cause of ROC's diplomatic isolation.

The Consitution of the Republic of Korea claims sovereignity over the
entire Korean peninsula, yet it is not diplomatically isolated.  The
main reason for the ROC's diplomatic isolation lies in Beijing.

>I keep promoting this idea, people in Taiwan will realize
>that it is ok to prosecute a government who committed a
>crime against the welfare of the people.

And once that's been done, then the prosecutions of a whole lot of
other people will start.

>Actively, like KMT's claim giving CCP's a perfect execuse
>to invade Taiwan and also threaten Taiwanese lives and properties.

If CCP wants to invade Taiwan, they won't care what the KMT claims or
doesn't claim.  The only way to keep the CCP from invading Taiwan is
to convince CCP that an invasion is a very, very stupid thing to do.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 02:27:15 GMT

In article <95545@bu.edu> lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
>In article <92Sep8.190719edt.134@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>(deleted)
>>politics.  Li ShiMing (deleted)
>>the middle kingdom before until his reign.   I don't see any Chinese
>>Emperor surpassed him.    
>
>I think there were at least two surpassed him, Han Wen Di and KangXi.
>
>Besides other things, Han Wen Di's order to ban "Rou Xin" was almost
>a 2,000 years' earlier "Human Right Declaration". Also, he is the first
>emperor to question: Why it is me here to rule? Unfortunately, nobody
>at that time could think of, no mention could answer this question.

Unfortunately (he did have good intentions, but...) the abolishment of Rou
Xin caused more deaths, according to what I read, since the punishment was
then changed to whipping, which often resulted in deaths.

>
>Similarly, KangXi is another surprise in Chinese history. No other
>emperors ever understood and taught his offsprings:
>
>Emperor is to manage the country,
>not the country to serve the emperor.
>
>KangXi also showed great talent and interest in science. He personally
>wrote a academic paper on earthquake, he even tried to teach his ministers
>algebra and geometry. He built the first experimental farm which kept
>weather record....
>
>Their political successes are roughly equivalent to Li Shiming, but their
>intuitive awareness of humanright, democracy, and science, are no comparable
>in Chinese history.

Hmmm.  I am not sure the Liu Hen had any understanding of democracy, and
although he was an excellent emperior (IMO), he once almost executed the
entire family (the 3 Zu's) of a man accused of cutting a tree on the tomb of
his father, Liu Bon (Han Gou Zu).  Of course, everyone had their blemishes.

I think Kang Xi (Ai Shin Jue Lo Shuen Hua) is a very underrated emperor; the
Han people often forget the greatness of the Chin Dynasty in its beginning
since it was non-Han and corrupt at the end of the dynasty.

Another emperor who ranks high on my list is Liu Shiu (Han Guang Wu Di).  His
personality showed a lot of kindness and non-forgetfulness of the good things
people did to him.  For example, most emperors would execute, or at least
imprison, their empresses if they fall out of favor.  When Liu Shiu divorced
his empress Gou Shen Tong, however, he made her the Queen Dowager for her son,
and gave her family much treasure (alimony? :-)).

Of course, if you like military types, the one on top would still have to be
Li Shi Ming, followed by perhaps Liu Bon and then Chow Chow.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25650 soc.culture.taiwan:13439
From: yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:29:09 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <15SEP199216004474@deimos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:

>I was not comparing KMT as IRA, rather I am suggesting the two groups
>of people both looking for independence. IRA is a minority group but
>Northern Ireland Independence is not a issue of minority. DPP is as well
>a minority group, except it does not using terrorism rather they like
>to throw chairs in the Parliment legally.

I see that you are avoiding to use ROC, fine. But you missed
my point totally. The current government on Taiwan, which I call
ROC, was established in 1911. It's well and alive. FYI, it's NOT
seeking independence.

>and whom I am doing that for. I do not think lable the other people as
>such such -ism would help the discussion, would help to make yourself
>understood. I never worry about it and I never call the other people
>such such -ism.
>
>c.q.
>

Agree. All I am asking is a little understanding and sensitivity.
Please keep in mind ROC is established and was once in U.N., it's
different from IRA, PLO, etc. who are still looking for recognition.

In my view, insisting sovereignty is a reflex action. It shows
Chinese people feel they are victims of imperialism. It was a
great slogan in the 20s', not the 90's. Feeling like a victim
will never help China to modernize because that's an easy way
out: China's problems are results of foreigners evil deeds.

But the real reason for Chinese's suffering really come from within.


Yenwen 

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: zhengs@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Shunfeng Zheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Looking for Zhichao Zhang
Keywords: University of SURREY, UK
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:01:13 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Dear Netters:

I am looking for a friend who came to University of Surrey, Guildford(?), UK.
in 1989 from Tianjin, P.R.C..  His name is Zhang, Zhichao. His elder brother is also in UK. Anyone who knows his whereabout please let me know. If you are
in that university, I would ask you to distribute this message in your university's chinese student network. Your help will be highly appreciated.
 
Thank you!

Shunfeng Zheng
From USA
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25291 soc.culture.taiwan:13160
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 18:56:58 EST
From: Tao Yao <TAYAO@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: test

Ignore this article please. :)    ^_^
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:45:38 EDT
From: <YXZ100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: To those pro Shen Tong guys

========================================================================= In
the article <1992Sep7.193609.27898@athena.mit.edu>, the writer says:
"Courage?  what courage is that?  Backed up by Uncle Sam to show down in
Beijingneed NO courage.  He know he is OK anyway.  If he were really
couragous:

1.staying Beijing after 6.4 or 2.  go back to China without any foreign
power interference." Date: 7 September 1992, 17:00:13 EDT From: YXZ100 at


PSUVM To: zhuh at athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: To those pro-Shen Tong guys

Where were you after 6.4, Sir?  Do you mean that you even had more courage
to go back at that time or that only return to China three years ago rather
than now is a courageous behavior?  Please don't try to criticize others by
the standard which you don't even live with.  Try to understand others based
on what you know about youself and real people.  At least this is one thing
that you should have learnt in U.S..
From: bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: another test
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:09:26 GMT
Reply-To: bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System)
Organization: Med-Systems, Kingsport, Tennessee

In article <ROTEN.92Sep9150002@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov> roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten) writes:
>Check this header out !!!  This fellow left *very* few clues to backtrack 
>him by.  
>
>If you are going to post anonymously, do it right !  This guy sure knows 
>how !  
>

There is a script for anonymous posting. 

Sure, one can hide the header but one cannot hide the path (except changing
his/her account name). To track down anonymous posters, start from the
path. If the original posting machine is on Internet, chances are good
that the poster can be tracked down. To make it hard to be tracked down,
considersing posting from another net.

Chou1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
medsys.UUCP is a real site and bbs@medsys.UUCP is a real account. It is
just that everybody posting from this site all uses the same account.
Unless you check the signature, you don't know who is who. But who says
the signature is the real name?
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25292 soc.culture.taiwan:13161
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: The purpose of a country. (Was: F-16's fear?)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:41:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.134939.12523@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> utingli@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu  
(Tingli Pan) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.203846.25381@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu  
(Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
> >>
> .......
> >>- Allan
> >
> >Even though, I still don't see why Taiwanese should consider to unite with
> >China. To be on your own boss in a small company will always let you make 
> >more money than being employed in a big or huge company, isn't it ?
> >If you can be a boss in a company and paid more than you are employed,
> >will you consider to be employed by other companies ?
> >No matter what happened to China, Taiwanese will be absolutely better 
> >off if Taiwan stays away from China.
> >
> But what does the CEO of the larger company think. That's why there are
> merges of the companies no matter the president of the smaller
> company like it or not. Also they said the trouble with the Taiwan
> industry is that it has too many small companies but without large size
> companies, it prevents its competence in the world.
> 
> >Yi-Chieh 
> 
> Tingli Pan

In fact, some large companies are also dismantled into smaller ones because  
they are not efficient and reluctant to develop themselves. There are quite a  
lot of such examples. I think it's natural that companies merge and divide  
according to the need of market, as long as it is good to the economy and the  
employees as well as employers. Same to the countries. As long as it is good to  
the people, it does not matter that countries merge and devide. Let the people  
make their choices.

I think it's good to keep Taiwan in its current status. It's good to both  
Taiwan and mainland. It's always important to have something to check and  
balance the social systems. I think Taiwan's 43-year-seperation from mainland  
at least checks and balances mainland politics to some degree. 

Carl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : 5 Dynasties and 10 Kingdoms Period
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:12:45 GMT

In article <9225200.21524@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>**Period:
>
>907 -> 979 A.D. Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period
>
>**Dynasty:
>
>Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period
>
>The period is also a mass, like North/South Period.
>
>(sorry, couldn't be bothered typing in all the dates.  :-) )
>
>**Area under Central Control:
>
>Tibet took control over most parts of the Mongolian area,
>and was bigger than what was left over from Tang.
>Beijing area was lost, so was Inner Mongolia.
>Vietnam area is lost.

Hmmm.  For once, I actually think that an area that you listed as not Chinese
was Chinese. :-)

Northern Vietnam was then under the control of one of the Ten Kingdoms
(South Han), and was not lost until Song took over South Han.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: To those pro-Shen Tong guys
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:28:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.202124.25325@news.cs.brandeis.edu> xi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>In article <92249.140601CHENJC@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, CHENJC@QUCDN.QueensU.CA writes:
>>Shen Tong simply plays an idiot role in this international politics
>>game, directed by his AMERICAN ADVISOR. That's why many chinese don't
>>give a shit on his arrest (or you can call it grabbed/seized, as much
>>as you like).  You guys probably enjoyed ST's recent show too much,
>>and forgot you are just watching a play/game.
>>Unlike three years ago, now few and few people trust those so-called
   I guess "D-fighters" fear if CSS went back to China, "D-fighters" would not
have any "soldiers" any more. "headquater" would become empty-corner! 
>>D-fighters.
>>
>>JC
>
>American can sale F-16 fighter to Taiwan, and why can't CCP arrest ST?
>Maybe they can make a deal. Anyway, after 20 years from now, F-16 will
>be garbage, and ST ? no predictions.
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: heathd@ucs.orst.edu (Du Shi-hua Heath)
Subject: Re: WHAT REAL TIBETANS THINK?
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:41:18 GMT

>Tibetans continue to flee Tibet by the thousands, and Chinese soldiers 
>continue to shoot them as they cross the border.  Here is a recent UPI report:
> 
>  [UPI 9/02/92] KATMANDU -- A Tibetan was killed and two others injured
>  Wednesday when a police patrol fired on a group of Tibetans trying to flee
>  across the border into Nepal, police said. The two injured Tibetans were
>  admitted for treatment to Bir hospital in Katmandu after being bussed into
>  the city from the Okhandunga border region, a doctor at the emergency ward
>  said. Some 21 Tibetans from the group were bussed into Katmandu either for
>  treatment or questioning, police said. 
> 
>Do these seem like happy, smiling Tibetans?  
> 
>Tibetans want independence!  China out!
> 
>A committee of real Tibetans.

Not only Tibetans will be shot, anybody try to cross the border illegally
will be shot.  This is not a conflict between Tibetans and Han(Chinese
is the name of all nationalities within Chinese border, which also include
Tibetans), it's a conflict between the government and it's people. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR (where is MNR,KJR,NTR)
Organization: MITRE
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:53:07 GMT

Is it because of great Han Chinese chauvinistic idea, I can see any NTR
(native Taiwanese Ren) is this title?  How about KJR (Ke4Jia1) ? And,
people live in Kinmen and Matzu, how to define
them?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan,soc.history
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: US Ironclads (Was: Re: US colonializing )
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:47:44 GMT

yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:

>In article <CB.92Sep10112746@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>The first important iron ship was, I believe, the Dreadnought (I could
>>have the name wrong).  It was an English ship of about 1870.  As

	The monitor, USN iron ship was. It was the first ALL iron ship,
no sails, and it had a turret.

>The Dreadnought was built in around 1904 at the height of the naval
>arms race between England and Germany.  Its importance laid not in 
>being the first ironclad warship, but in carrying only big guns 
>of the same caliber (10 12") instead of the mishmash of calibers 

	It had only 1 main cannon tye, but it still had secondary
cannons.

>carried by earlier ships.  This all-or-nothing design gave the 
>Dreadnought such a preponderance of "throw weight" that, combined 

	All-or-nothing came later, I belive the U.S. Nevada. class 
was the first. It involves armor protection. The ship either had
thick armor over vital area's, or none at all over the non-important
areas.

>than Germany, although subsequent battles suggested that the German
>Dreadnoughts were better built.

The German powder was much better. English powder expolded if you 
looked at it funny, German powder burned. The British lost several
ships to magazine explosions.
> 
>in the 1860's.  I believe technically the French built the first
>ironclad (the Glorie), but the British generally led in its 
	
	These were true "ironclads" were iron was put on over wood.
Parts of the ship were wood, and I belive the underwater parts were
unarmored.

>development until the 1930's. The thing with the American Civil War 
>ironclads (monitors) is that they were basically riverboats that
>can't function in deep water. The ocean going navy still consisted 

	There were river ironclads, and ocean ironclads. They were
2 different types, but the U.S. (union) had ocean going ironclads.
The best ironclad of that perion was the Dunderburg, but it was never
compleated, as the Civil ended before it was launched. The U.S. had
several of its Civil War ironclads serving untill WW1. These were the
Puritan class monitors armed with 20 inch Dalagran smooth bores.

James
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china