HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Effort vs clinging on the spiritual path
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:40:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45669
Distribution: world
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA


		"Human conduct is ever unreliable
		 until man is anchored in the Divine,
		 Everything in future will improve
		 if you are making a spiritual effort now".
			       - Swami Sri Yukteswar


The spiritual path requires effort with very few exceptions. There was a
man who wrote a book some years ago called (I think) _The lazy man's way
to enlightenment_". Well, lazy men may write books but they don't find 
enlightenment. Ultimate truth sayings like "you are already enlightened"
point to the truth only and one has to then make the effort to have this
realization and not just quote the words. Besides scientific meditation
which deals directly with the life energy flowing outward to turn it inward,
a good practice is to hold on to the peace of meditation. To do otherwise is 
like milking a cow until the bucket is full and then dropping the bucket and 
kicking it over on the way back from the barn :-). Some may say that
this is clinging, but the real clinging is to remain in the lower states of 
awareness where one only perceives that which is perceivable through the 5 
senses.  Any "lazy" path which quotes the ultimate truth sayings and then
concludes that one need not do anything or make any spiritual effort, is
an example of big-time clinging to ego-consciousness and the limited states
of awareness, bound and limited by the 5 senses. True non-clinging is found
in any practice which severs the ties and weans us from the lower states
of body-bound, sense-bound consciousness.  After enough effort is
made, the practices are no longer necessary and thus there is no lasting
attachment to the means to ending this powerful clinging to ego-consciousness.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (anand hudli)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Indra, Mithra and Varuna
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:52:54 -0800
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1dd21dINNfq3@sandman.caltech.edu> mks9e@amsun30.apma.Virginia.EDU (Mustafa Kemal Husein Saiyid) writes:
>Could someone kindly explain to me the significance of Indra, Mithra
>and Varuna in the Indian Aryan religious tradition?
>Thank you,
>Mustafa Ssiyid                  

  Indra, Mitra and Varuna are Vedic Gods. Indra is the God of lightning
and rain. Mitra is the one of the Adityas or sons of Aditi. He has been
identified with, among other things, the sun, air, friend and soul.
Varuna is the God presiding over water. 

 Let me add some information on the four Vedas - Rig, Yajur, Sama and 
 Atharva. The number of verses in each Veda is indicated below. 

  Rigveda     10,522
  Yajurveda     1984
  Samaveda      1875
  Atharvaveda   5977

 Rigveda mostly contains hymns in praise of various Gods. Yajurveda 
 deals with  hymns used in religious sacrifices. Samaveda deals with 
 musical prayers to Gods and Atharvaveda with science and medicine, among
 other things. 
 
  Vedas are said to have been revealed by the Supreme God, Vishnu at the
 beginning of creation. Hence, it is erroneous to consider vedas as
ordinary literature and try to fix a date regarding their origin. Even
historians agree that Vedas were passed from generation to generation 
verbally, without being put into written text form. The written text
came much later. Since Vedas are revealed by the Supreme Vishnu, they
are both indestructible and infallible. 
 
 Anand 
 ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: pjm@isis.cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Effort vs clinging on the spiritual path
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:54:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45824
Distribution: world
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <45669@ogicse.ogi.edu> radams@cerritos.edu writes:
>enlightenment. Ultimate truth sayings like "you are already enlightened"
>point to the truth only and one has to then make the effort to have this

i know you are troubled by this expression. i also questioned
the motives of people who carelessly (imho) said things like 
"you are already enlightened". but my current view of expressions
like this is that enlightenment comes when we set aside
the fictions we cling to and call reality. therefore
the process of enlightenment can be viewed as an effort
to NOT do. this may well be correct. Conze, remarking in 
the introduction to the Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom,
comments that the statement "This Sutra is valid independent
of temporal or spatial circumstances and throughtout the universe"
is not presumptious because the book really makes no assertions
at all. reading the Sutra itself one finds that indeed
it is almost entirely in the negative - a Bodhisattva doesn't
do such and such. so maybe the expression "you are already enlightened"
comes from this type of understanding.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
From: degrace@upei.ca (John DeGrace)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: re-examination of dealing with emotions
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:45:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45660
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island


In article <1dc5sqINNs0e@sandman.caltech.edu> degrace@upei.ca (John DeGrace) writes:

>You've got it!  I am more and more coming to the view that, if there is one 
>phrase that should be engraved in the heart of every practitioner it is this 
>one:  "Only what mindfulness can wisdom understand."  (BTW, can anyone 
>recall the original author of that?)

Oops.  That's "Only what mindfulness _contemplates_ can wisdom understand."  
I guess I was the original author of the mistake.  Anyone know the original 
author of the quote?


>John DeGrace                                   degrace@upei.ca
From: lyeh@alleg.edu (Hun Lye)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: re-examination of dealing with emotions
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:55:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45658
Distribution: world
Organization: Allegheny College

In article <1dh97lINN7mu@sandman.caltech.edu> MORIARTY@vm1.nodak.edu  
writes:
 > Hello again.  I want to thank the people who are contributing to this
 > thread because I find it very interesting and directly relevant to my
 > experience of developing awareness (sati).  I wonder whether anyone
 > has anything to say about the relationship of the flow of time to
 > this question?  I do not know of any Buddhist texts that discuss
 > the flow of time in a direct manner.  Yet, as a Western Humanist,
 > the nature of time is a primary concern to me.  The theories of
 > Aristotle and Newton and even of Einstein and Stephen Hawkings do
 > not seem to apply to Buddhist notions of experience-in-time.  I
 > hope this is not too vague, but I'd like to read comments from the
 > others without dictating an outcome.  Perhaps I am the only one who
 > is concerned about the question of time and its relationship to
 > the development of sati.  One of the four jnanas if the awareness
 > of infinite space.  Does that include time?
 >       In gassho, Mike     email: Moriarty@vm1.nodak.edu


Try to works of Dogen.  There is one chapter in Dogen's Shobogenzo titled  
"Being Time."  Time is certainly a concern in Buddhism.  And I am sure  
many Buddhist masters have dealt on the topic of time.  But what I can  
recall off-hand is Dogen's "Being Time."


Regards,

Hun Lye
From: prasanth@ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Indra, Mithra and Varuna
Date: 7 Nov 1992 12:33:08 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <1dfljmINNrpr@sandman.caltech.edu>, ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (anand hudli) writes:
  
> Vedas are said to have been revealed by the Supreme God, Vishnu at the
> beginning of creation. Hence, it is erroneous to consider vedas as
> ordinary literature and try to fix a date regarding their origin. Even
> historians agree that Vedas were passed from generation to generation 
> verbally, without being put into written text form. The written text
> came much later. Since Vedas are revealed by the Supreme Vishnu, they
> are both indestructible and infallible. 
 

Truth is more important than (blind) faith to a Hindu. Prove
your assertions. 

>  Anand 
>  ahudli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
 

RKP
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Homophobic garbage
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:07:09 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <BxM16D.KnJ@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
|> In article <1drpvtINNn3o@cuda.add.itg.ti.com> winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js) writes:
|> >main() {
|> >int sex, MALE;
|> >
|> >sex=rand();
|> >
|> >if (!MALE) then
|> >	printf("%s",have_sex(cool));
|> >else
|> >	printf("%s",have_sex(freak));
|> >
|> >exit(TRUE);
|> >}
|> >
|> >----->kinda stupid ain't it?  How many *semantic* errors can you find?
|> 
|> You forgot to #include <stdio.h>, or #define TRUE.
|> You didn't provide extern declarations for rand(), printf(), have_sex(),
|> or exit().
|> You didn't provide extern declarations for cool and freak.
|> MALE is used before it's assigned a value.
|> sex is never used.
|> The return value for printf() is never used.
|> You probably wanted to do exit(0) rather than exit(TRUE).

Very good!  A bit dead-pan.  But, very good, nonethless.
And illustrates my point about the logic the "friend" followed and
the grammar "poster" used to convey it.

|> Writing (void)printf("%s", have_sex(MALE ? freak : cool)); is neater.

Ahem!

Struck a nerve!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
clever code-slingers deserve the latest in torture - like reading thier *own*
code and >fixing it< !
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I feel much better now...


|> 
|> "I'm too picky for my code, too picky for my code..."

Whip me, beat me, make me use lint!

js
From: ST401816@brownvm.brown.edu (Kate Monteiro)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: BI Presbyterians
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:36:52 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Hello All --

I just had a really upsetting conversation with the pastor of my Presbyterian
chruch.  I wonder are there any BI Presbys out there who might help me sort
through some thinks about the Presbyterian Church USA and perhaps help me
remain within the nomination......

Thanks
Kate
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 07:32:34 EST

kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:

> In article <1992Nov11.024331.4960@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu 
> > gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
> >> kraig@athena.cs.uga.edu (Kraig Count) writes:
> >>>Not all people who belive in tarot or astrology are new age 
> >>>fanatics.
> >>
> >>No, but they're still raving nutters whatever brand of lunacy
> >>they adhere to.
> >
 * * * * * * * * 

> 
> This was basically what I was trying to say.  All groups have people that
> take a viewpoint to an extreme and in effect go off the deep end.  

Speaking as someone who reads Tarot cards, can I urge you not to jump to 
any rash conclusions?  I don't think I'm nutty.   I don't go on about 
Tarot, in fact the subject seldom crops up in my conversations.  
Generalizations about New Age types simply reveal stereotypes that are as 
untrue as any other type of stereotype.... and more untrue than many...

Namaste,
Elizabeth
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: bisexual opinion by my friend
From: onda@ab.wvnet.edu
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:48:18 -0500
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College




	this is posted from my friend not me but you can reply to this account
		


	he states that:

	all you guys who are bisexual are freaks because how can you find 
	other men attractive but women on the other hand are beautiful and
should find other women beautiful so it is cool that women have sex with 
	each other.

	again this is not me but i don't give a f**k what you do as long as you
	don't tell me about it.

	jason, the most imfamous man in philippi. 

	write back
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Finally Doing It ... Coming Out
Reply-To: orc@amber.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Catastrophes
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 08:33:54 GMT

In article <BxCwyt.I22@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
|rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
|>So ... now, the question is, how does one do this thing?
|>I can see two main avenues:
|>A) Let it drop in during a casual conversation
|>B) Sit them down for a talk
|Well, A worked well for me. I did it very gradually though... coming out
|as bi and telling them you've got a MOTSS SO and telling them about the
|BDSM is a *lot* to do at once.

   (evil orcish grinning)  There's always option C), where you
borrow back a Good Vibrations catalogue, tell them you're gonna
make an order, make the order, and let them look up what you
ordered in the catalogue.  I didn't do this with my parents, but
my best friends got a whiff of me not being vanilla (or, at the
very least, a realization that what I call vanilla is just possibly
not what the rest of the world calls vanilla...) when they looked
over the list of things I ordered from good vibes this afternoon,
which included a few wee tiny restraints and blindfolds.

   At this point, though, I suspect my mum would just note it as
more evidence that her eldest child is rather eccentric.  (My
father, well, he's taken to pretending I'm not queer; I'd bet he'd
fall right into denial for this bit, too ;-)

                ____
  david parsons \bi/ shameless e-slut
                 \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Subject: Re: Time (Was: Family Values (long))
Organization: Wits University Electrical Engineering
Date: 10 Nov 92 08:31:48 GMT

In <1992Nov5.072528.18185@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:
>   This is something that's rather easy to resolve.  Would you
>prefer your sympathy in the traditional ehug package, or would you
>prefer to select another variety from the catalogue?

There's a catalogue!! Nobody told me that when I demuffined. What have
I been missing? <sulk>

>                ____
>  david parsons \bi/ "Purity 45% and falling"
>                 \/

Why is your purity 45% and falling. I take it that this has something to
do with the mysterious purity test. Can anyone tell me what this is?

                                                                ____ 
                                                                \bi/ 
Vashti                                                           \/
(BTW my libido came back from holiday, sex doesn't seem silly
any more, only silly-nice)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Vashti Galpin                      vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa.  Tel 27(11)716-3295 Fax 27(11)403-1926
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Time (Was: Family Values (long))
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:01:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.182057.11203@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kdc5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.D. Colagio) writes:
>ob-flirt...My purity level is about 53%...anyone want to help lower it? ;*)

Come on over, and I'll help you get it down to my mid-teens percentage...

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Gender-specific needs
Date: 13 Nov 1992 12:13:35 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <MUFFY.92Nov10110212@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
->
->It's not exactly this, but I have been having a very weird experience
->along these lines lately.  Ever since looking into the eyes of the
->beautiful woman in our philosophy class, I've been thinking about (and
->lusting after) all the attractive women I have met.  Somehow, I just
->seem to want "a woman."  In the past, I have wanted *specific* people,
->or I have wanted "sex in general" (*grin*), but I've never had this
->feeling of wanting the in-between "sex with someone of a particular
->gender."

I know the feeling ... part of why my sexual kinsey rating fluctuates wildly
most of the time ... 

While there are currently <thinks> <sweeps across the country> 13 people who
I really really want (for those interested, 5 are men), sex with others is
largely a matter of gender-specificness ... 

As in, I distinctly remember two weeks ago really really really wanting to
go to bed with a woman.  

Thankfully, since wanting to go to bed with someone, in my case, translates
to wanting to please someone, I 'took care' of this need by finding some
women who let me rub their back ... a not-quite-the-same substitute, but it
did its job ...

This week? Hmm ... the urge/need for the female members of my 'top 13' list
from above is much higher than the one for the male members ... but I'm more
attracted to, and more drawn to, men in casual day-to-day contact ...

*smiles* Spent about 10 minutes in the subway today (hopefully nonblatantly)
staring at this beautiful man ... probably the first redhead who I've ever
found attractive ...

Not to mention spending about two hours in the car with an incredibly
handsome man ... and meeting (as I have in the last four thursday) the one
man in the bay area who I would utterly die to have top me (though that's
more a topic for a.s.b than here) ... 

All things considered, though, I'd rather be in pennsylvania ...

-roy
-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Letters from you make me feel good."  -Laura Creighton
"Why do you guys all have to have penises?" -anon
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd)
Subject: Re: a tiny bit more out
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 20:50:15 GMT

tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
: I wear my silver honest-these-
: two-androgynous-people-are-*just-holding-hands* badge, and people just say
: "oh, pretty".

Did someone say "two pretty androgynous people"?  Where?  WHERE???

Oh damn, what a giveaway.

So, Tanaqui, care to describe this badge a little , now you've, ah,
piqued my interest?  Don't believe I've seen you wear it ..

anticipatory hugs
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ZWANG2@vm.ucs.UAlberta.CA (Zhenqiang Wang)
Subject: Result of the Asia Soccer game
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:51:18 GMT

Any body know the result of the Asian Soccer Game?  If you know, could you pls
post it, or drop me a line?

Zhenqiang Wang.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Altruism (was: two men)
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:56:01 GMT

In article <Bx8ty5.HoK@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>
>This thread was originally about relationships. I think the best way to
>conduct relationships (at least, for me) is to be unselfish and giving.
>If the other person is unselfish and giving back, everything is fine. I
>don't see what's so destructive about that. Doesn't anyone else conduct
>their relationships this way?
>

Okay . . . I can see both points of view here, and I think I agree with
both of them.  %-)  It sounds to me like Muffy is saying that you have
to take care of yourself emotionally, that you can't really love someone
else completely if deep down inside you don't love yourself.  If that's
the case, then the altruism that Jon is suggesting is just a cover, an
attempt to avoid looking at oneself honestly but instead just immersing
oneself in someone else's needs.  That would not be healthy.

But that does not mean that everyone who is altruistic is unhealthy.  If
you have a positive self concept, you are more likely to find a person
who will return your altruism, as Jon suggests, and it does work out great.
It would not be healthy to continue being altruistic in a relationship
where your partner never returns the favor.  But that does not mean that
there is anything wrong with giving unselfishly.

(steps down off soapbox)

I hope that made sense.  If it didn't, just hit the space bar.  :)

Darren
(feeling oddly talkative today)