From: gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Subject: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 625
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:17:07 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

In this issue:
                               racism...
                          GayNet Newsletter !
                      PHILLIP MORRIS/ABSOLUT VODKA
                            Abuse = gayness
                            "Willie Horton"
                             Gay DeadHeads
         Dear World (was Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 622)
                         more One Life To Live
                             SHANGO PROJECT
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 623

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@ATHENA.MIT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@ATHENA.MIT.EDU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 00:51:01 EST
From: Bill Stanford Pincheon-THE SHANGO PROJECT <PINCHEO@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: racism...

michael j pastor babbled a lot of racist nonsense which I do not hope
to see repeated on this network.  The arguments used have been
around for several centuries and rest more on racist attitudes than
on historical evidence.

As far as rap and blues music, these are not only a response to racism
(or "directly related to only responding to the views of whites", as you so
eloquently put it), so please stop spouting this racist nonsense and do some
more studying and thinking.


Bill Pincheon
Indiana U.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 6:24 EDT
Status:
From: ricky@usa.zero6.sai.com (Richard Velez)
Subject: GayNet Newsletter !

I'm lookin for a GayNet Issue, that had a post of many Gay Mailin List,
 Does anyone knows what Issue that was, and if you have a copy, can you
 please send me a copy :), I've writen to GayNet-Request, but they said that
 it will be had cuz they will have to look though they issue, anyway if you
 have that issue, please send me a copy, of the entire GayNet Issue, Thanks

  Btw, I'm still lookin for Gay or Bi Penpals, I'm from New York City, and
will like to speak to other that are in the same area, or out, no problem :)

  Thanks again

   Ricky@usa.zero6.sai.com

------------------------------

Date:        Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:30:22 EDT
From: "AAKL000@CATCC.bitnet  Kevin S. Lowery Catonsville"
 <AAKL%CATCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: PHILLIP MORRIS/ABSOLUT VODKA

> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:18:39 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Subject: Re: PHILLIP-MORRIS
>
> Now, I don't mean to attack you or anyone else, it is just that I have
> a hard time justifying this kind of advertisement as good advertising.
> Let's face it, they sell a product which has adverse affects on good
> health.  I may not be in perfect health myself, but I try to avoid
> even second-hand smoke.  Many of you can already see my point so I
> won't belabor it.
> Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
>
> so do you feel the same way about Absolut Vodka's continual support all
> of these  years in magazines such as the advocate?
>
> michael j pastor iii
> guest on davids account

Now, personally, I don't think they are the same thing.  You see,
you might disagree with me, but this is my personal opinion or the way
I see it.  While smoking is bad for you no matter how many cigs you
smoke, whether it is second-hand smoke (which is worse), or if you only
smoke at the bar (which I know of many people who do), your chances
for lung cancer increase moreso than someone who obstains.

Now, drinking is different.  Actually, a little alcohol in the system
every once in a while is good for the digestive/nervous system.  It is
when it is taken to excess constantly that it is bad for one's health.
Personally I don't object to alcohol advertisements as much as cig
advertisements.  Now, I guess you could say that consumption of liquor
does eventually cause cirhosis of the liver, but I believe that is
only when it is taken to excess for a long period of time.

Again, I am not interested in receiving flames on this one.  I do
understand that the advertising does help keep the gay publications
going and that is important in our community.  Just wish that
personally I could agree that the bottom line of this kind of
advertising.

------------------------------

Date:        Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:38:51 EDT
From: "AAKL000@CATCC.bitnet  Kevin S. Lowery Catonsville"
 <AAKL%CATCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: Abuse = gayness

> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:17:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Subject:  gabriel and being a smartalec
>
> >He says:
> >
> >>                           I equate being gay with 1. liking certain
> >> types of music (I will go to a dance club that places house or techno
> >> over one of country), 2. liking comic books (I collect them, and I go to
> >> some conventions), 3. science fiction (almost the only genre of fiction
> >> or non-fiction that I read, much to my detriment, as I refused to give
> >> anything else a chance), 4. not being able to digest shrimp (but I  can
> >> digest other shellfish), 5. being an abused child (by a father who was
> >> damn good was he was good, and pretty bad when he was bad) and other
> >> traits.
> >
> >I guess I'm not gay, then, since my dad didn't abuse me.
> >
> >Gabriel (in New Mexico)
>
>
> you have totally misinterpreted what I meant by the above.  I equated
> it, as these are aspects of myself just like being gay is in aspect of
> myself, but none of the above qualifies as an ethnic identity, or an
> overriding factor by itself in who I am.  When appropriate, each is
> emphasized or brought up, but not used to prejudice my actions or
> feelings toward something.  If you think I believe I'm gay becuase of
> parental abuse, then you are really reading into my text, and your
> wording needs something to be desired as far as tact is concerned.
>
>
> michael j pastor iii
> guest on davids account
>
I don't mean to add fuel to the fire on this one, however, I just
wanted you both to know that there ARE a lot of people who are gay
who were abused by friends or relatives.  Me, I was abused by two
older scouts on an outing when I was 11 years old.  That was not
my purpose in writing this message -- to tout my abuse.  It has taken
a lot for me to get over this and get my life back on track.  I still
cry about it every once in a while.  It is sensitive and I would hope
that if you were abused you would talk about it, but I would rather
not see each other flame each other about personal issues which could
be awkward for a lot of people here.

I don't mean to insinuate that ALL gay people have been abused
physically or mentally.  I also don't mean to insinuate that only men
or only women have been abused mentally or physically.

------------------------------

From: <DONIZETI@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 14 Aug 1992 08:45:47 CDT
Subject: "Willie Horton"

Heard over Will-Am this morning (local PBS radio) from section
      on "Family Values"--"Gay rights will be the "Willie Horton""
      of the Republican Campaign this year"--and so it goes--Merle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 09:52:10 EDT
From: elliott@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (larry)
Posted-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 09:52:10 EDT
Subject: Gay DeadHeads

Hey Now!

This is for Chris, who wrote several weeks ago looking for other
gay DeadHeads.  Well, I just want you to know, there are several of
us out here!   Feel free to write to me, if you want!

We ARE everywhere!


- -----------
larry martinelli               |   "Faring you well, now.  Let your
dwarf@well.sf.ca.us            |    life proceed by its own design."
elliott@eniac.seas.upenn.edu   |

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 92 07:03:53 PDT
From: Mike Clark <MSCMAC%UCSCVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      Dear World (was Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 622)

On Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:24:33 -0400 you said:
>From: "Mac Phillips"  <MAC@hup.ucla.edu>
>   "-Suppose I were to say your pearls were false.
>    -They were.  They were.
>    -Surely you must know when you wear pearls, that little by
>    little the pearls become real.
>    -and isn't it the same with memories."
>
>                                -My recolection of my adaptation for
>                                an oral interpretation of Gerry
>                                Herman's musical adaptation of Jean
>                                Giradeux's tea party scene from,
>                                _The Madwoman of Chaillot_
>
AWK!  Is it coinkydink that I happen to be listening to
Dear World as I read this, or does that fall in the area
of fate (and if so, what's the next step)?  I can more
accept that this type of thing might happen with a current
mega-hit, than something as esoteric as this (how many
people have even HEARD of Dear World, let alone be some-
what familiar with its history, or its story?).

mike,  impressed as hell!

p.s. obqueerrel: well, it IS show music!  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:21:21 EDT
From: mickey@math.duke.edu (Mickey McDonald)
Subject: more One Life To Live

By no means will this be close to a complete discription of what has been
happening on OLTL this past week, but I thought some interesting things have
happened and thought that I would pass them along.

Last Friday, as was posted on the net, Billy came out to his father and his
father completely freaked.  Well, on Monday we picked up at the same place.
His father freaked, Billy ran away, his mother is somewhat confused.  She
wants to believe that Billy is telling the truth that he is gay, but her
husband does not want to believe it and says at one point "Good, let him
run away, far away."  Billy's friends, Alana and Joey go out looking for Billy
but can't find him.  At one point they go up to Marty (the girl who started
all the rumors about Rev. Carpenter making advances on Billy which started this
whole thing) and ask for her help.  She seemingly snubs them.  Later on, we see
her walk into this room -- it looks maybe like the backstage of some old
deserted theater -- and there is Billy.  She says that one time (I think
when he was drunk with her) he told her about this place as his only place
to go by himself and get away from the rest of the world.  He makes her promise
not to tell anyone about this place.  She says she will.  He then says maybe
he could bring Alana and Joey here.  She says she has to think about that
one.

Things with the Rev. seem to be getting worse and worse in terms of his
pastorate at Saint Andrew's.  There is some commision now examining all parts
of his life to determine whether or not he should stay.  Every time they show
him and his girlfriend, Cassie (they have now made up and she has decided to
stick with him in this fight), there is some photographer taking pictures of
the two of them together.

On yesterday's show, a new character (as far as I know) is introduced.  Rev.
Carpenter had a brother who died of AIDS many years ago -- his father does
not acknowledge that his brother (William I believe) was gay or that he even
died of AIDS, that is the big block in their relationship.  Anyway, William's
lover (I forget his name) at the time of his death comes into Andrew's (Rev.
Carpenter's) office.  He has begun to fear that he is forgetting William - his
face, his traits, etc.  Andrew says that this is normal in the grieving process.
The boyfriend then says that he wants to remember -- and wants everyone to
remember -- William and all the other victims of AIDS.  He wants to make a
panel for the AIDS memorial quilt in time for it to be shown in its entirety
in Washington in October.  They talk about it and he shows Andrew the beginnings
of a panel and they agree to finish it.  They also talk about trying to get
Andrew and WIlliam's father to do it with them, but Andrew does not have high
hopes of that succeeding.

Anyway, there is a brief outline.  I realize that it is nowhere as detailed
as perhaps you have become acustomed to....my apologies.

-Mickey McDonald
-Duke University, ex-home of Christian Laettner

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:14:13 EST
Subject: SHANGO PROJECT
From: An Anonymous Sender

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Bill Pincheon at IU:  what is the Shango Project (as stated in your sig)?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:43:55 EST
From: Graham Wolff Christian <GRAHAM@HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 623

Excuse me for being perhaps over-particular about Mac Phillips's sig. file, but
the lines in question are uttered not by "Kate," but by Eleanor of Aquitaine,
in reference to her husband's late mistress, Rosamund Clifford. BY "Kate," I
think you must mean Katherine Hepburn, who took the role in the film version.
The play is a superb piece in its own right, not limited to the movie: I would
hate to see it disappear into movie trivia.

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU