HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:30:39 GMT

IMHO, the INL (*) should not prevent teams from joining the league based
on their *ability* to provide a "fair" home playing field. It goes without
saying that teams should do all they can to provide the best server they
can, and purposeful attempts to ruin the game for away teams should be
strongly discouraged (and would probably be noticed...one can learn a lot
from ping stats, if one is patient enough). But, in the case of USC, there
is no evidence that they are trying to create problems for away teams.
Similarly, there is strong evidence that their away performance would be
hurt by the same conditions that other teams suffer playing at their home
server. In this case, they receive no advantage: if two games were to be
played, one at calvin and one outside, then the better team would end up
having the better total performance and we would know which team was
better. If the current INL setup does not reflect this, then I would say
the problem is with how the INL schedules and determines winners (which
of course is not easy to fix, since if it were the INL council would have
solved the problem already). But, the solution cannot be to just block
teams which, due to problems beyond their control, cannot provide as
fine a server as a University with the finest machines and a high-quality,
well-maintained network. The whole point of the INL is to get more people
playing high clue netrek games, not less.

-Grey Elf
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: artc@iplmail.orl.mmc.com (Art)
Subject: CLUE GAME TONIGHT
Keywords: 
 Clue Game tonight at netrek.atd.ucar.edu   
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 at 6: 00 PM EST till ------
Organization: MMC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:06:02 GMT

 be there or be  ----
                |    |
                |    |
                 ----



.................
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The use of profanity
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:39:11 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Alan writes
> Ummm, this newsgroup isn't just for a few vocal well-known netrek
> players and I didn't proclaim myself to be "supreme moderator of the
> netrek world".

Good point...so you take the discussion about reorganizing  
rec.games.netrek to news.groups....I guess more of the non-vocal,  
lesser-known netrek players will post there, huh?  Flawless logic strikes  
again...	

> Josh has my respect, for those reasons, too.  I'm still of the opinion
> that using profanity is immature.  It's just my opinion.  If people 
> don't respect me for having that opinion, so be it.

Who cares?  You campaign against news drivel and you make posts of pure  
drivel...


> Actually the problem with the kill file is that Subjects tend to
> drift.  If you use a kill file you can miss out on a lot of good
> ideas.  Moderating technical subgroups would keep them on track.  But
> this is for news.groups.

"Keeping on track" causes just as many ideas to be lost.

> I understand that your's and other's more coherent concern is that
> there is a danger in censoring communications.  I agree.  My main
> concern is that there is a small vocal self appointed cadre of people,
> who by virtue of the fact that they spend an inordinate amount of time
> posting articles, think that they have the right to intimidate people
> from expressing their ideas on r.g.n.  I put it to this group that this
> form of intense irrational flaimming is in itself a form of unwanted
> moderation.

How odd...I really know of alot of people who post here and ask "how do  
you play this game?"  and we reply "why don't you just never learn,  
twink".  Only frequent posters get flammed by other frequent posters...its  
an unwritten rule...:-).

> Case in point, my employee Mike, who is the server god of discovery (I
> hear sighs of relief?!?! That's right I'm not the server god), as a
> rule does not post to r.g.n because he doesn't want to deal with the
> irrational flamings.  BTW, we have the no profanity rule on discovery

poor boy...no really, I feel for him....so shallow he couldn't take a  
netnews flame about a video game...that's pretty sad.
> Alan Cabrera				internet:  adc@tardis.cl.msu.edu

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL changes
Date: 19 Nov 1992 06:58:49 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <SLS.92Nov18182416@batcomputer.aero.org> sls@aero.org (Sam Shen) writes:
)I'd like to see the following changes to the INL rules:
)
)1. A captain should be able to pause the game by himself.  This would
)have been useful in the GB-LAR game since GB's captain was busted and
)we would have liked to pause the game until he returned but couldn't.

Yes, there should be.

)2. Get rid of sudden death overtime.  Just have a 15 or 30 min
)overtime period.  Sudden death makes sense when scores are few and far
)between (like in baseball), but in netrek planets change hands fairly
)quickly (more like basketball).

I personally like sudden death; I think there would be far too many
ties with an n minute overtime.  Note that basketball just keeps
playing until someone wins; I don't think that's an option for netrek.

)3. There should be a countdown when resuming after a pause.

Yes.

)4. There should be a countdown after regulation play and before
)overtime.

I am going to lobby for a 5 minute pause before overtime.  And, yes,
for halftime.

)5. Before the game begins a player can switch to the home or away side
)by sending the appropriate message to himself and so he can receive
)the other team's pre-game messages (and miss his own team's.)  The
)server should be changed so that the player does not recv the other
)team's msgs and still gets his own team's.

Mmm, a little sticky, but possible.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Yet another move in the ulowell server...
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:50:41 GMT

In the hunt for a good system to run the server on, where lag will be at a
minimum, I have moved the ulowell server once again. Right now, it is
physically located on a system called netrek.ulowell.edu, and has the IP
address of 129.63.32.4, and is on port 2592.

If this experiment works out, the server will remain there as long as the
system exists. If not it may move again, but "netrek.ulowell.edu" will
always point to the right location, so those of you who can use the name
will not see a change...

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Subject: I missed it. What is RSA?
Keywords: RSA
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:36:51 GMT

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't read everything in this group.

Now that bronco is going "RSA", could someone please tell me what it is?
Just a quick summary would be nice.

Thanks,

Scott
(aka Necron)

--
************* Repeal Amendment 2! - Shame On You, Colorado. ******************
J. Scott Farrow-Student SysAdmin/Programmer, University of Colorado at Boulder
Computing & Network Services, Boulder, Colorado, USA, phone: (303) 492-4428
Internet: farrow@spot.colorado.edu, farrow@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Newbie with some HPs
From: lofink@unixd1.neuronet.pitt.edu (Raymond M Lofink)
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:11:04 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.netrek
Organization: /afs/pitt.edu/usr31/lofink/.organization


I couldn't find any servers or blessed clients for my
HP9000/710's at any of the ftp-sites but I am told
they are out there.  Setting up something on my local
net will help divert a growing crop of clueless (author included)
from clogging up other Pittsburgh sites.

I already have a borg client for the 710 and a blessed for
our Apollos.

Also, any info with setting up greyscale will help me prevent
mega-cluelessness.

thanx-in-anvance

Ray
lofink@neuronet.pitt.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:41:21 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Red Alert! Need History and Opinions About Netrek! Help a Fellow Netrek Player! This is Not a Drill! It's Almost Christmas for Crying Out Aloud! S.E.X.!!!

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 23-Nov-92 Red Alert! Need
History an.. Dwight Joe@leland.Stanfo (1065)

> (1) What is the history of Netrek?

	In order to know the history of netrek, one must know some about the
history of xtrek, it.  Xtrek was written at MIT, and ported out to other
sites.  However, the ported version tended to crash frequently, so
hackers at UCB and CMU began to try to fix/modify the game.  As they
were working seperately, they naturally diverged -- CMU hackers adding
more elaborate damage controls and configurable ships, and UCB players
adding new weapons and changing the cloaking rules.  
	When UCB writers added t-mode rules, server-client protocall, and a
permanant database (made possible by a permanat server), the game of
netrek was born.  As it spread, the MIT and CMU versions of the game
were replaced.
	When Terence Chang moved from UCB to CMU in fall 1990, he brought
netrek with him.  The CMU xtrekers were enthralled, and almost
immediately gave up on xtrek in favor of netrek.  It was not long before
the concept of a netrek tourney came to light (Xtrek tourneys had been
tried with mixxed results.).  As more tourneys occured, Ogging
increased.  It soon became one of the most standard practices at CMU.
	In the meantime, servers had been started in KSU and Utexas.  Chaos
servers (with the new Galaxy class ship) were gaining popularity.
	Also in the meantime, more and more people were becoming concerned with
machine assisted clients (cyborgs, or 'borgs).  The reserved.c system
was formed to try to combat 'borgs.  At CMU, a tourney was played
between the cream of the netrek elite and a 'borg team -- the result, a
draw.
	More netrek players and servers were starting to appear all over the
US, now, sparked by the formation of alt.games.netrek.  
	CMU and UCB egos began to flare, eventually resulting in a tourney
game.  Played on a KSU server lent by bav, ZZnew guy's CMU team crushed
Mojo Riser's team.  However, calls by UCB of lag were supported by bav's
demonstration that Berkeley players suffered 10% packet loss.
	In spite of the failure of this game, Mojo Riser went about forming the
Intercolleget Netrek League (INL).  The first season was rocky, because
netrek was run via TCP, so small amounts of packet loss could ruin a
game.  Toward the end of the season, UDP was introduced.  With the
spread of the INL, vanilla netrek became the standard.  While other
servers (Chaos, Heckey, etc) exist to this day, they are considdered
diversions, not true netrek. 
	In the meantime, with the formation of rec.games.netrek, netrek gained
a wordwide following.  Servers were started all over Europe and
Australia.
	The latest development, has been the formation of the European Netrek League.
	History is still in the making.

>(5) Is Netrek too addictive?

Yes

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: RSA (Was: RSA gobbledygook)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:47:05 GMT

I have mixed feelings about this RSA stuff.  Part of me says "neat-o,
an actual application of PKE," and the other part says "what a pain,
this is overkill."  From what Nick Trown and Mike Polek say, it sounds
like everybody even in the US that wants to play netrek is going to
have to jump through some non-trivial hoops(*), and it will be even
worse for the Europeans.  I don't think the effort is warranted, just
to try to stamp out blessed borgs, especially considering that the
system is flimsy enough that a determined hacker could quickly break it
anyway.  If this RSA stuff continues on its present course, and really
is as cumbersome as it appears to be, I intend to call for a boycott of
any server that requires an RSA key (including bronco).  So if I were
you I wouldn't bother getting an RSA client at this time.

If the community feels we have to strengthen our defenses against borgs
(personally, I'd rather rely on the honor system), here are two ideas
that don't use public key stuff:

(1) Change the reserved.c key, but keep the same old structure.  Yes,
all the servers gods would still be able to build borgs, but I guess
there are a lot of non-server-gods that currently have the old
reserved.c for one reason or another, and anyway any extant blessed
borgs that may have gotten out would cease to be blessed.

(2) Each server could have a key that it requires, along the lines of
the current reserved.c key.  The people officially sanctioned to
compile blessed binaries (there are very few of them and we must trust
them anyway) get all the keys.  So the binaries they release will be
allowed on all the servers that participate in this process.  Since
some client-hackers lean towards releasing info-borgs and others are
more conservative, a finicky server-god could choose which client-
hackers to give his key to.

* If we could just ftp a binary and run it, that's fine, that's what
we're used to.  If we have to decrypt it, using a key we have to get
in the mail and using a crypt program we may not have and may not 
be able to easily get, that's ridiculous.

 -- Bert  (Red Shirt)
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:31:59 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Screaming at the Sun
	<1992Nov18.134526.9988@dsd.es.com>

	I like Ray Jones.
	I think he just slammed me, but I like him.  He's someone who you can
trust, and will not go out of his way to offend.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: INHL Exhibition Game: IT'S A TIE!!
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 04:44:18 GMT

In article <25-1H$x=+a@atlantis.psu.edu> JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman) writes:
>
>  Well the 1st International NetHockey League Exhibition
>Game is over. The result: A 7 to 7 Tie!!

A hell of a game.  Even if it was painfully obvious that I haven't
been playing very much for the last few weeks.  Well worth braving the
weather [*] for.  

So when will the INHL start?  

Ray
[*] The Salt Lake valley has gone from 0 inches to ~2.5 feet of snow
in the past 2 days.  Nothing like driving around on a frictionless
plane. 
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: ENL result - RISC over TNT 20-0
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:09:24 GMT

A bit belated ENL report - RISC beats TNT 20-0

Teams RISC and TNT (Tuebingen Netrek Team) played an ENL match last Wed. (18th)
on iacrs2.

TNT was Ori, we were Fed.

The game started off in the usual bombing spree.  TNT opted not to take out a
base (they were the more lagged of the two teams).  However, the lack of a base
to gaurd their armies led to RISC gaining a +40 army lead after bombing, and
RISC never looked back.

TNT was lagged a fair amount, and GB'd a couple times.  We tried to catch on to
when this happened, and sit back.  This worked rather well.  However,
everything was clicking for RISC that night, and we pulled out our first ENL
win to go 1-1 on the season with a genocide around the 20 minute mark.

Everyone was in the mood for more netrek, so we played again for fun.

Many thanks to TNT for playing a home game away from their home server, taking
considerable lag onto themselves.  They played a game against net conditions
that make Calvin look like a mind link with nary a complaint.  The ENL may not
yet have the level of competition that the INL does, but it's already far out
in front in terms of sportsmanship.

Also thanks to Zaphod for the use of his server.

	Alec
	Hercules of RISC

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: NBR proposal: Another gimmic to help the clueless newbie
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:29:05 GMT

In article <Mf2wrNa00VpE0AzEds@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 18-Nov-92 Re: NBR proposal:
>Another g.. Steve Von Worley@cory.Be (1356)
>
>> I would have to say that not reading
>> messages is an unfortunate side effect which grew out of local CMU
>> tourneys and servers, where people could talk to each other across
>> the room.
>
>Greetings all,
>	I just have one question... where do all these non-CMU people get the
>idea that CMU people talk to each other while playing netrek in
>non-tourneys (emphasising Steve's mention of CMU 'servers').  I'm sorry
>to burst some bubbles, but CMU *is* a real school and does have people
>doing *real* work in the computer clusters.  We do talk during tourneys
>if they're scheduled at non-peak times, but playing at bronco 5:00 PM to
>Midnight on weekdays is hardly a suitable time to yell "Go Ogg Sandia!
>He's got 10 armies!" across the cluster :).  
>
>-KB
> Rear Admiral "Kill the Ccon!, He's talking to a User!" Akira

Um, well, I got the idea from various CMU experts when I started playing.
I believe they told me that this happened.  Maybe they lied to me.

I also am under the impression that this is getting nigh impossible
nowadays, since cluster utilization has gone way up.

I also believe there are a few CMU players with high bronco ranks who
don't read messages, possibly because of what I mentioned  (when 
netrek was a mostly CMU-local phenomenon and when clusters were less
full.)

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Nightmare (was Re: SB ogging)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:11:38 GMT

In article <books.106.0@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu> books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books) writes:
>Tell me about it.  The first time I based I had four oggers come at
>me from different sides.  I killed one and had the other 3 uncloak
>simultaneosly (sp) on right next to me in an almost perfect equillateral
>triangle.  I received messages from two of them about it being the most
>perfect ogg they had ever seen.  I, of course, went boom. (Or is that
>doosh?)  I was at 50% shields.

Reminds me of a nightmare I had recently.  I'm in a base, and I must be 
playing on a US server as the response is slow.  I'm being ogged but 
there's nothing visible on my tactical at all, there's just this perfect 
circle of eight question marks shrinking on my galactic... (Maybe Sandia 
has taught Target Practice about base oggs :)

ICMP Redirect - SC bomber with lag
Death - scumming for Admiral with ratings 12+
danny - best base in the Southern Hemisphere

Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:21:51 -0500 
From: David Reeve Sward <sward+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: NBR Proposal: keymaps

I don't know if something else like this has been proposed.  If there
has been another proposal with enough overlap with this to not warrant
this, feel free to cheerfully ignore this.

Proposal: ship-dependant keymaps

Description: define in the .xtrekrc (or .netrekrc) a global keymap and
keymaps for specific ships:

keymap: tTTt d
keymap.sb: tTTt y
keymap.sc: tTTt @

when the player switches ships, the client will automatically switch to
the appropriate keymap.  if there is no keymap for that ship, the client
will use the global keymap, otherwise the client will use the specific
keymap.  the keymaps are not overlays of the global keymap, but are
complete keymaps - if there is a definition in the global but not in the
ship-specific keymap then the default key will be used; not the
definition in the global keymap.

Send seconds/comments to sward+netrek@cmu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: paulsen@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: PS. Proposal
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:10:21 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

How about ranking the teams before the season start, and placing a team
in either bracket 1 or bracket 2..  Bracket 1 teams play each other
and bracket 2 teams play each other.

Scrimmages also count for INL preseason status.

Any team that gets genocided does not make the playoffs.  Other than that,
regular season only counts for seeding status.

Brian
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Date: 19 Nov 1992 19:07:01 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov19.192936.9458@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gli@nyx.cs.du.edu (Garry Li) writes:
>Please, if you see him playing on patriot again, please OGG him for me,
>and for your own sake. 'Cuz if every rank scum start playing on patriot,
>there will never be fun game anymore.

That depends on how good your ogging is :-)

5150
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: Rookie request (MacX)
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:59:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.124634.135@janus.arc.ab.ca> morgan@arc.ab.ca (Sean Morgan) writes:
>I am not an X user, but have access to Suns through our office network.  I 
also>have MacX running on a Mac SE/30 (and a two page display).  Is there 
any hope>of running the client binary on the Sun but displaying it on my 
Mac (seats>actually at the Suns can be hard to come by, as well as 
inconvenient)?>
>Sean Morgan 

I do it all the time with my PC running DesqView/X.  You just have to do
setenv DISPLAY your.system.address.here.  You may also need to let your
Mac (Yuck) know that it is to allow the sun to open a window on it.  On
that one you are on your own.

>


Sherlock

Roger
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: netrek.atd.ucar.edu - EXPLANATION
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:26:28 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

I sent mail to the server god (corbet@stout.atd.ucar.EDU), and he sent back 
the following explanation of the problems. Apparently, there havent' been any
big games going on there after all - just a server bug.

>There is a weird problem with the server that causes everything to just
>hang every now and then; I have never been able to track it down.  This has
>been an especially obnoxious problem over the last month, while I have been
>out of the country and unable to keep a close eye on things.  I am back
>now, and hopefully things will be a bit more stable.

>jon

Necron

--
************* Repeal Amendment 2! - Shame On You, Colorado. ******************
J. Scott Farrow-Student SysAdmin/Programmer, University of Colorado at Boulder
Computing & Network Services, Boulder, Colorado, USA, phone: (303) 492-4428
Internet: farrow@spot.colorado.edu, farrow@cs.colorado.edu