From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: 'Pol*/Greece' Has A World Class Image Problem: '31' >> '17.5.'
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:11:22 GMT






<2256.3244.uupcb@factory.com>
michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 

HM>Is this the joke of the week? The only conclusion that can be gained
HM>here is that the Ottoman Empire was also a democratic state. Freedom

>  Nonsence. The Sick Man of the East was in power all along.

It's probably the retroactive integrator of the imported prince of Greece.

HM>of culture and religion prevailed during the Ottoman Empire, allowing
HM>the many nations and races within its boundaries to remain autonomous.

>  Open a dictionary: Look up 'Autonomous'. You will find that corrupt Pasas,
>  blood-thirsty tax collectors and child-abductors kidnapping boys to
>  serve on the Ottoman army is NOT the definition of Autonomy.

Darn. The 'Greasy Pol*' is down - second time today. By the way, do you 
always make yourself laugh purposely? The following observations by 
Westerners were written in French by Ahmet Cevat: 

"If Turks had behaved like Christians to use force to convert to Islam the
nations which they brought under their power, to which no one could have
opposed, today there would be no Eastern problem. But Turks did not do so. 
They obeyed the word of the Koran to permit everybody "to worship in their own
way" centuries before Frederick the Great pronounced his famous dictum. Thus,
in an age when the Christian Europe itself shed Christian blood and when 
people in Europe enjoyed inflicting inhuman tortures upon those whose beliefs
differed from theirs, the Ottoman Empire became the sole country where the
inquisition did not exist, where deaths at the stake were unheard of and 
where accusations of witchcraft were not made. And the barbarian (!) Turkey
was the only country where the Jews persecuted and chased away everywhere
by the Christians, could find asylum. These facts demonstrate that Muslim
countries provided spiritually far better living conditions than Christian
countries."[1,2]

"The Turks, who are a conquering nation, did not Turkify the nations that came
under their rule; instead, they respected their religions and traditions. It
was a stroke of luck for Romania to live under Turkish rule instead of
Russian or Austrian rule. Because otherwise there would not have been a
Romanian nation today" (Popescu Ciocanel).

"Turks rule over people under their administration only externally, without
interfering with their internal structures. On account of this, the autonomy
of minorities in Turkey is better and more complete than any in the most
advanced European countries."[3]

All historians are agreed that these freedoms granted to the Christian subjects
played a major role in the weakening of the Ottoman Empire. As long as the 
Empire was strong and struck fear in Europe, the Christian subjects were
content to exploit the victorious Turks by dominating finance, commerce and
industry. But after the conclusion of the treaties of Pasarofca and Kucuk
Kaynarca following the defeat at Mohac, the same Christian subjects felt
that the Empire was beginning to decline and they began to collaborate openly
or secretly with the states that were relentless enemies of Turkey. If Turks
had not been endowed with a patience and camless the exaggeration of which
verges upon being a flaw, they would certainly have punished very severely
these internal enemies who could no longer conceal their intrigues and 
treachery and who used military losses of the Turks as their victories.[4]

"...human beings hate each other on account of religious differences. This flaw
is older than Islam and Christianity. But there has never been any examples
of this adjuration in Turkey because Turks never oppress anybody on account
of his religion. If enmity on the basis of religion had been such a case of
simple contempt among us too, or if it did not keep translating itself into
action, many nations in our Europe would probably have considered themselves
happy!" (A. de Mortraye).[5]

"Turkey never became a scene for religious terror or for the cruelty of the
inquisition. On the contrary, it served as an asylum for the unfortunate
victims of Christian fanaticism. If you look into history, you will see that
in the fifteenth century thousands of Jews who were expelled from Spain and
Portugal found such a good asylum in Turkey that their descendants have been
living there very calmly all through these approximately three hundred years,
and are only forced to defend themselves in some countries against the
cruelty of Christians, especially that of the Orthodoxes. No Jew is able to
appear in public during Easter celebrations in Athens, even today. In Turkey,
however, if the Israelites are insulted by the Greek and Armenian communities,
local courts immediately take them under their protection."

"In that vast and calm country of the sultan, all religions and nations are
living together peacefully. Although the mosque is superior to the church and
the synagogue, it does not replace them. Because of this, the Catholic sect is
more free in Istanbul and Smyrna (mine: Izmir) compared with Paris and Lyon.
In addition to the fact that no law in Turkey prohibits the open-air ceremonies
of this sect, neither does any law imprison its cross in the church. While the
dead are being taken to the graves, a long line of priests bear processional
candles and chant Catholic hymns. When all the priests in all the churches in
the Galata and Beyoglu districts go into the streets and form clerical
processions during the Eucharist celebrations, chanting hymns and bearing
their crosses and religious banners, a detachment of soldiers escorts them
which forces even the Turks to stand in respect around the group of 
priests." (A. Ubicini).[6]

[1]  B. Braude/B. Lewis, eds., "Christians and Jews in the Ottoman Empire:
     The Functioning of Pluralist Society," (New York/London, 1982), p. 2.
[2]  Ah. Djevat, "Yabancilara Gore Eski Turkler," 3rd ed. (Istanbul, 1978),
     pp. 70-71.
[3]  Ibid., p.91.
[4]  Ibid., pp. 103-104.
[5]  Ibid., pp. 214-215.
[6]  Ibid., pp. 215-216.

HM>The fact that the Ottoman Empire was the longest lived in recent history
HM>may be attributed to these freedoms, despite the lack of any written

>  GASP! CHOKE! Are you serious? Let's cross-post this to s.c.Japan, s.c.China,
>  s.c.Spain, s.c.England etc etc and see how they feel about this statement.
>  At least now you have proven yourself to be ignorant on a global scale,
>  not just locally to the Near East.

Poor and ignorant children of '17.5-year-old' democracy. Don't expect to
become a 'democracy' overnight. After all, you are the children of an
imported prince and you have years of conditioning behind you that has 
built strong inhibitions. And go to 'Turkiye' instead.

"Major Principles of the Constitution"

The constitution (with 177 Articles) establishes the structure of the Republic
within the following principles:

- The Turkish Republic is a democratic, secular and social state governed by 
  law;
- It should be governed to maintain public peace, national solidarity, justice,
  human rights and the objectives of Ataturk;
- The language of the State is Turkish;
- Sovereignty is vested in the nation without any conditions or restrictions.
  Sovereignty is exercised by organizations authorized by the nation;
- Legislative power is carried by the Parliament elected by the nation. This
  power cannot be delegated (transferred) to any one else;
- Executive power is exercised by the President, and Council of Ministers;
- Judicial power is exercised by the independent courts on behalf of the
  Turkish nation;
- All individuals are equal, irrespective of language, race, religion, color,
  sex, or political beliefs;
- Laws cannot be contradict those principles stated in the Constitution.

"Structure of the State"

In accordance with the Constitution, the structure of the state is based on the
principle of "division of power" to create a balanced and self-controlled
system. The power is divided into "legislative power," "executive power," and
"judicial power," balanced to secure freedoms and powers to control each
other (self-control).

 A. Legislative Power:

 The "Turkish Grand National Assembly" is a parliament with one House, elected
 by the nation for a term of five years to exercise legislative power on
 behalf of the nation. The basic functions of this Assembly are:

 - to adopt, to amend, or to repeal laws;
 - to approve or to dismiss the Council of Ministers;
 - to supervise and to question Ministers or the Council of Ministers;
 - to debate, to amend and to approve annual budgets;
 - to ratify international agreements;
 - to grant amnesty or pardons.

 Members of Parliament do not have any liability for their words (either oral
 or written) during the course of their legislative duties. The country is
 divided into constituencies. The number of representatives of each is
 calculated according to its population. Every Turkish citizen over the age
 of twenty-one can vote.

 Elections are supervised by the "Supreme Council of Elections," which solves
 all disputes or appeals. In each province, the local "Board of Election"
 runs and controls the election under the supervision and guidelines of the
 Supreme Council. Members of the Council and Boards are elected among 
 independent judges.

 B. Executive Power:

 The President of the Republic is the Head of State (not the head of government
 as in the Unites States). The main functions of the President are:

 - to represent the State and the Country;
 - to insure the implementation of the Constitution;
 - to coordinate legislative, judicial and executive functions;
 - act as the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces;
 - to ratify laws and government decrees.
 
 The President is elected by the Grand National Assembly for a period of seven
 years. The President may ratify or return the laws for a second debate, may 
 call for a referendum.

 Executive power is exercised by the "Council of Ministers," headed by the
 Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is appointed by the President from the
 members of Parliament. The Prime Minister names the Ministers for approval
 by the President. The new Government (Council of Ministers) reads their
 program at the Parliament and the vote of confidence follows. There are 21 (?)
 Ministers in the Council.

 Ministers and other members of the administration can be sued in independent
 "administrative" courts for their misuse of power, administrative errors or
 functions against any law.

 C. Judicial Power:

 Judicial power is exercised by independent courts. No authority or power can
 instruct the judges or public prosecutors of the courts. These cannot be 
 discharged, replaced or retired by executive authorities except for the
 reasons clearly stated by the appropriate laws. There are three categories
 of courts in the Turkish judiciary system:

 - Courts of justice deal with legal, commercial and criminal cases. The 
   decisions of these courts may be reviewed by the supreme court of justice
   upon the appeal of the parties involved.
 - The decisions or functions of the executive power (including the Prime
   Minister and Ministers or any governmental department) can be appealed in
   administrative courts if these functions or decisions are against the law.
   The decisions of these administrative courts may also be reviewed by the
   high administrative court.

 The laws and decisions of the Grand National Assembly can be examined by the
 "Constitutional Court" if they contradict the Constitution. If found
 contradictory, this court may cancel the decisions or laws of the Parliament.

>   Victory was very sweet indeed, thank you. Very real too, just like the
>   iron sides of the Battleship Averof.

Don't worry about the present order of 'greasy' things.


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8922 soc.culture.greek:7568