HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: A Poll, Heaven Forbid, of All the Readers of This Newsgroup
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:45:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.234718.2561@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:

>1) Would you consider supporting the *eventual* move of this group to the
>   misc.*, rec.*, or even possibly the sci.* hierarchy?

misc.* seems more appropriate to me than the other two.
Is soc.* an option?

>   One of these hierarchies would be much better than the current alt.*
>   newsgroup since many sites do not carry the alt.* groups - the system
>   managers at those sites must have strong 'SJ' personalities.  :^)

Are these sites Jesuit universities?

...
>   Thus, before I'd go through the arduous and time-consuming process of a
>   formal CFD and CFV, I'd like to already have in place at least 100
>   potential 'yea' votes which I hope to accumulate in the next few months.

I've never done this kind of thing before...
What constitutes voter eligibility?

>2) What is your Myers-Briggs (MBTI) type, if you know it?

Seems to be INFP, from the sixteen-paragraph thing and the seventy-question
thing.
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Walter Lee                                          w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu

Anticipation of problems is half the battle.  And the only way to
anticipate is to think.
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Changes in type
Date: 12 Jan 1993 03:54:03 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfcgf.sde.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Laura Dolson wrote:
> One other thing, it was asked recently if people's types could change
> over time.  It is my understanding that F's can become more T when
> in school (I have noticed this, being in grad school), but usually
> revert back when they finish. 

Or if they leave their job!  :-)

The first time I took the MBTI, I had been working at HP for about 11 years.
I suspect if I'd taken the test 10 years ago I would have matched the
computer-hacker "type" perfectly, but I had done some things since then
that had resulted in my changing into a more gregarious, outgoing person.
(Among other things I took a 2-year rotation into our Marketing department,
and did a lot of teaching, customer presentations, etc.)

Anyway, a year ago I left HP, and technical employment in general.
(I'm back for a short contracting stint.)  My wife and I had gotten tired
of the stress-filled corporate life, and decided to do a complete 180.
We had started building a home-based business in a small network-marketing
company, and decided to pursue that aggressively.  (And it's working out 
**EXTREMELY** well, thank you!  :-)

So, out of curiosity, I re-took the test last month.  There was one major
change:  I went from a fairly distinct T (14/6 by the Keirsey/Bates test)
to an exact 10/10 X.  My scores were:

3/90:	4/6	12/8	14/6	12/8
      I (weak)	  S	  T	  J

12/92:	5/5	13/7	10/10	13/7
	 X	  S	  X	  J

I haven't studied MBTI enough to intelligently analyze this shift,
but I would speculate that getting away from a purely analytical,
technical environment and getting into a more people-oriented world
might have caused the shift from T to X.

Other comments?

Gary
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.misc,sci.psychology,soc.culture.misc,soc.history,soc.misc
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: Re: Do Cultures Exhibit a Collective Personality That Changes With Time?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:35:36 GMT

cpshelle@logos.uwaterloo.ca (cameron shelley) writes:

>...Jung's 'collective unconscious' would seem to mean something
>like cultural personality.  If I recall, this was one of the points
>that Freud vehemently disputed with Jung.

I believe that Jung actually referred to the collective culture as the
collective conscious.  That is, the ideals, social mores, the specific
strictures and freedoms within a given society at any given time.  The
collective unconscious, as far as I understand it, is something more
personal, or at least experienced personally, having less to do with
society, place and time than with an individual's own evolutionary self.

In response to Cameron Laird, I also seem to recall something called the
"consistency paradox" which has to do with type and trait theories in
individuals.  Although someone may have a given personality, there is no
guarantee they will regularly manifest that personality.  If we are to
apply type theory to an entire culture, then it would seem logical that
there would be a great amount of inconsistency within individuals of
that society and also the patterns of personality the soicety itself
displays.

I think that Jung actually can shed a lot of light upon this idea, if we
look at the archetypes being manifested on a large scale.

Kyrsten
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:13:15 GMT

In <1icalpINNs68@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
>Waitaminnit.  I'm no MTBI expert, but...  Jean-Luc and Jimmy (the Stud) Kirk
>the SAME TYPE!?

>As I perceive them, Kirk is a brash, egotistical, hot-headed, supremely 
>self-confident, impulsive person.  Picard, in contrast, is non-impulsive, 
>more contemplative and philosophical, much more likely to solicit (AND accept)
>opinions from others, shares the workload and the glory, etc.

Hmmm... I think you've been watching a different show from the one *I've* been
seeing.  Picard certainly seems rather egotistical to me (probably most
captains are), and I've certainly seen Kirk solicit and accept opinions from
others (and, for that matter, give credit where credit is due).

Kirk is certainly more of a take-charge and DO SOMETHING personality, but
that's just his style of command.

>Can you see Kirk as a passionate student of archaeology, launching into
>  long and boring discourses about the burial crypts of Tridelta Foo?

Well, I doubt that they'd be BORING. :-)  Kirk is clearly more married to his
career than Picard is, though he has other interests as well (old sailing
vessels, for instance).  Both Kirk and Picard have literary interests.

>Can you see Picard as a womanizing, swashbuckling, loose cannon?

In his younger days (c.f., "Samaritan Snare"), yes, I can.  He's clearly
womanized a little and buckled a swash or two.

>How can these utterly dissimilar people be the same type?
>Assuming they are, how is one supposed to make use of a person's type info
>to make informed decisions about how best to interact with them?  
>I would interact with Kirk and Picard in VERY different ways...

Well, I can't comment on their types because I have only a vague familiarity
with the system, but I don't think that you have a very good grasp on Kirk's
character.  I do agree that I'd interact with them differently, though.

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI
( Now in the Boston, Massachusetts area! )

"...Smalltalk provides a much cleaner solution; it sends the name of the
 desired operation, along with any arguments, as a message... with the
 understanding that the receiver knows best how to carry out the desired
 operation.  Instead of a bit-grinding processor raping and plundering data
 structures, we have a universe of well-behaved objects that courteously ask
 each other to carry out their various desires."
							- Author unknown
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Reply-To: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:47:21 GMT

REgarding frieds typing on s/n.

The theory makes perfect sense.  Friends should share paerspectives.
To the N an S is narrow, obcessed with detail and totally lacking in
imagination.  They may be useful as an an accountant, but hardly a 
friend.  To the S an N is flighty, unfocused, and always confusing.
All right for a party invitation, not a friend.   
For spouses it is different.  I (as an N) can apreciate the value of
having someone to bring me back to earth from time to time.  My
wife (strong S) depends on me to come up with creative solutions
to what may appear to be mundane problems.

It can work, but It took several readings of "Please UnderstandMe"
to sink in.  I am still driven up the wall by most S's I know.
And I know I drive them crazy too.

No right, no wrong, just interesting...

Julian Yudelson   intp,  Rochester Inst. of Tech.

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.misc,sci.psychology,soc.culture.misc,soc.history,soc.misc
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: Re: Do Cultures Exhibit a Collective Personality That Changes With Time?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:04:39 GMT

rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) writes:

>>>>Is it possible for cultures to exhibit an overall 'personality', somewhat
>>>>akin to individual human personalities, and that these cultural
>>>>'personalities' can dynamically and dramatically change over time?  For
>> 
>>I've often played with this idea and have for fun come up with the
>>following conclusions:
>> 
>>Germans - melancholic
>>Italians, Spaniards - sanguine
>>Australians - phlegmatic
>>Americans, french - choleric
>> 
>>Any other submissions?
>	I take exception to the above.  To state that American and French
>	have anything is common is an annoyance to the French and an insult
>	to the Americans!

What's the deal with this American anti-Frenc and French anti-American
thing?
Isn't it possible that the reason there is such an ongoing conflict
between the two is because we are so similar to one-another.  Due to our
being so much the same we are that much more annoyed by what we see in
the other culture.
BTW, could someone quickly run thru the differences between melancholic,
sanguine, phlegmatic, and choleric.  I'm sure someone posted it already,
but I can;t seem to remember wht they are.

Kyrsten 
Xref: sparky alt.psychology.personality:415 rec.arts.startrek.current:22617
From: dow@e10.UUCP (P. Allan Dow)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:00:41 GMT
Followup-To: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
Distribution: na
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale



Big apologies -- I stuck my "Reply-to" string into the "Followup-To:" line
of my last post.  Please check your "Followup-To:" line if you answer it.

correct Followup-To: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
correct Reply-to: dow@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.misc,sci.psychology,soc.culture.misc,soc.history,soc.misc
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:43:18 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <16B4DEEC4.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>   I've argued elsewhere that Kirk in STVI is much more like Picard than
>most people argue.  We should remember that (according to the series Bibles),
>Enterprise was Kirk's first command, whereas Picard had 22 years of starship
>command experience.

The only "bible" I follow is what actually makes it up on screen (since any
other information can be changed at a whim, e.g., Data being created by
Noonian Soong instead of aliens, as the first TNG bible said).  And, as far as
I know, no mention was made of Kirk having or not having a command before the
Enterprise.

>   As for the literary interest, from my memory, the TOS Kirk didn't have
>that much of outside interests other than boozing, fighting and sex.
>(I may be wrong, but the only literary quote I remember Kirk making was
>in Space Seed "rather rule in Hell" line.)

One would think that would be enough.  How many people do YOU know who can
quote from Milton?

At any rate, I think Kirk made a few other literary allusions during Classic
Trek.  I'd have to go look to dig 'em up, though.  (Anyone remember if KIRK
quoted any Shakespeare in "The Conscience Of The King"?)

-- 
Michael Rawdon				  rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department,  Madison, WI
( Now in the Boston, Massachusetts area! )

An equal-opportunity offender.
From: mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:43:48 GMT
Organization: W.A.S.T.E.

In article <C0G8K3.92r@utdallas.edu> bcollins@utdallas.edu (ARLIN B COLLINS) writes:
>   I am an ISTJ ...   With strong N's, I feel like
>   I am trying to play 20 questions to communicate with them,
>   I regard myself as a very direct communicator, no prejudice,
>   emotion or opinions...  "just the facts",  the  N's are always
>   reading emotions and feelings into my words that ARE NOT THERE!,
>   and when they speak to me, they are so vague that I get tired of
>   trying to figger out if they are  "for it"  or  "agin' it"...
>

I work in a User Services Department as a consultant.  We handle
user questions by phone, by email and in person. We've been 
administering the x version of the test  (xmbti) to the staff 
for fun.  I came out a INFP, and most of the other consultants 
are 'N's.  I can comfortably say that as a group we are 
effective communicators.  We have no trouble fielding vague
trouble reports and returning direct, to the point responses.

The traits you are describing I would group as
(T vs. F) and (J vs. P) conflicts rather than (S vs. N).

I'll check the book Type Talk at the office this afternoon
to see if there is any illuminating discussion in it.  I seem
to recall a section similar to what you are describing revolving
around the response to the question "what time is it?".  The
questioner wants a "3:04pm" response and gets a "Oh, don't
worry, we're not late" response.

mark
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Heracleitus)
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Originator: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:39:35 GMT


  Since the argument over strong types simulating other types has come
up, isn't it true (as some MBTI books contend) that under conditions
of stress or in tense situations, an INTJ, for example, instead of
acting under his or her normal personality type, would exhibit more
opposing traits, such as ISFJ or ENFP, etc.  I think we all have
mobility along the MB sliding scale I--E, N--S, etc., and probably
enough to slide from 100% I --> 51% E even, but maybe not from one
pole to the other.  Even under duress, is it possible for a strong
type to exhibit the strong opposite?

Doug Lamb
University of Virginia
dtl8v@Virginia.EDU
From: dolson@crl.ucsd.edu (Mark Dolson)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: changing types
Date: 12 Jan 1993 09:04:34 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


(From a new a.p.p'er)

I think there was a recent discussion about whether types could change
over time.  It is my understanding that F's can become more T when
in school (I have noticed this, being in grad school), but usually
revert back when they finish.  Also, I believe it was Jung's theory
that we spend the first half of our lives developing and using the
temperment type we were born with, and then after midlife begin devel-
oping the "shadow side" - the characteristics of the other dimensions.

Laura Dolson, INFJ
dolson@crl.ucsd.edu

Xref: sparky alt.psychology.personality:419 rec.arts.startrek.current:22753
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:11:00 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfcgf.sde.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

christopher stone (cstone@husc8.harvard.edu) wrote:
<<Re:  the discussion that Kirk was a womanizer vs. a philosopher>>
: Ah, but didn't Kirk carry on a discussion about literature (which has not
: yet been written :)) with Edith Keeler in "City on the Edge of Forever?"

Yes -- but only for the purposes of womanizing.  :-)  :-)

Gary
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing)
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 18:11:09 GMT


In article <1993Jan5.192018.5617@samba.oit.unc.edu> jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid) writes:
>A friend of mine has the theory that friendship is based upon the second of the 
>Myer's Briggs characteristics: Sensing vs. Intuitive.
>
>I have friends that are both extro and introverted, thinking and feeling, and 
>judgement and perceptive, but only intuitive friends.
>

I am a thoroughgoing intuitive.  I have many friends who are S-types, 
but there seems to be a subtle difference between my interactions with 
S's and with N's.  It's almost something of a game with me to see if 
I can detect S's by simply talking with them.  When I interact with 
N's, there's a deep feeling of *connection*.  I feel much more deeply 
understood than I do with S's.  With S's, I almost feel like there is 
some kind of mental "wall" that separates the inner person from me.  

For me, the difference between talking to an N versus talking to an S 
is almost like the difference between talking to someone face-to-face 
and talking to someone over the phone.  

This doesn't so much affect the quality of my relationships, it's just 
a curious observation.  

  Ken Ewing 
  Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 
  Beaverton, Oregon 
  kene@sequent.com 
  ...!uunet!sequent!kene 

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: watson@sce.carleton.ca (Stephen Watson)
Subject: Re: changing types
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:12:55 GMT

dolson@crl.ucsd.edu (Mark Dolson) writes:

>I think there was a recent discussion about whether types could change
>over time.  It is my understanding that F's can become more T when
>in school (I have noticed this, being in grad school), but usually
>revert back when they finish.  Also, I believe it was Jung's theory
>that we spend the first half of our lives developing and using the
>temperment type we were born with, and then after midlife begin devel-
>oping the "shadow side" - the characteristics of the other dimensions.

This may correspond to my experience: I just took the Kiersey test and
came out INTJ (hello Jon!), but I'm sure I'm considerably less extreme
on the N, T and J than I was as a teenager/young adult (I'm 35 now).
I've definitely picked up on the idea of listening to people`s feelings,
and considering how their experiences have shaped their perceptions,
before passing judgement on their opinions or deeds.  Things that used to
be black/white now show considerable gray-scale.

I think unemployment (Two years ago I got laid off after 10 years at Mitel)
has also affected this transition: I had to examine a lot of internal stuff
while working thru just how to respond to this crisis.  And deciding to be
a house-spouse for a while (while trying to get into grad school) put me
in contact with a whole different culture: the at-home-mom-with-toddlers
(but I`d still rather hack than watch soaps!!!)

>Laura Dolson, INFJ
>dolson@crl.ucsd.edu

--
= Steve Watson a.k.a. watson@sce.carleton.ca === Carleton University, Ontario =
this->opinion = My.opinion;  assert (this->opinion != CarletonU.opinion);
searching for pseudo-profound quote (no more than 150 characters)
From: gimble@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (David Caruso II)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: ENTJ classification.
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:27:25 CST
Organization: America, Planet Earth


	I took the Myers-Briggs test a year ago, and took it again today. 
Both times I came out with the same result:  ENTJ.  Any other ENTJs out
there? 

	I found it interesting that on many of the questions, I found it 
difficult to choose one or the other, because the question was too general; 
or I could go both ways, depending on the situation and my mood.
	After noting this, and the similarities my own personality seems to
have with other types described in the book, *Please Understand Me*, I
quickly concluded that "ENTJ" must only be a general way of describing my
most outward and basic disposition.  Obviously, all people (including
myself), are highly complex and diverse within themselves.

	I think it would be interesting to exchange some email with other
ENTJ's and analyze information about them that might increase my
understanding of the idea of classifying personalities ... 



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 David Caruso II                               Email: gimble@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
From: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Repost of Explanation of N vs. S and J vs P Scales for MBTI
Reply-To: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:23:35 GMT

I would like some help from any on the conference who have some
more extensive knowledge of MBTI.  Is anyone aware of large
scale studies that might relate type to large group behavior such
as stereotypes etc.  It would be reasonable to expect that Italian
are more E than the English who lmight be expected to be more I
oriented.  (PS don't go off on a racist kick, if there is any validity to sterotypes it should come out in large scale personality studies.)

I have heard that some companies have tried to use MBTI for market
determination, any evidence of this?

I have used it extensively to set up groups in class situation and
have found it to be very effective in the vast majority of cases.

Please reply email  JEyBBU@ritvax via edunet or bitnet or just reply.

Julian Yudelson.
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.misc,sci.psychology,soc.culture.misc,soc.history,soc.misc
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Subject: Re: Do Cultures Exhibit a Collective Personality That Changes With Time?
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 00:12:35 GMT

>In article <1993Jan5.011653.14380@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>                       .
>                       .
>                       .
>>Is it possible for cultures to exhibit an overall 'personality', somewhat
>>akin to individual human personalities, and that these cultural
>>'personalities' can dynamically and dramatically change over time?  For

I've often played with this idea and have for fun come up with the
following conclusions:


Germans - melancholic
Italians, Spaniards - sanguine
Australians - phlegmatic
Americans, french - choleric


Any other submissions?
Xref: sparky alt.psychology.personality:382 comp.misc:4767 sci.psychology:4900 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3857 comp.security.misc:2444