HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
Subject: Re: Driveway paving questions
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Distribution: or
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:22:15 GMT

Our driveway is about 1000 feet long, looping thru many turns with mild
inclines (less than 10 degrees).  I didn't see exactly how the
original owner built it, but it's an excellent job.  From having to dig
through it three times to find irrigation system leaks, I've found that
it's simply well compacted dirt (forest soil, actually) with a two-to-three
inch layer of rocks (I'm not a geologist, but it looks like decomposed
granite BEFORE decomposing---shale-like consistency).  They must have run a
bulldozer back and forth many times as its well 'seated'.  Then a few
inches of more dirt and 1/4-3/4 gravel.

The finished product is smooth enough for a 10 speed bicycle, doesn't
generate dust, even in the peak of the dry season, and hasn't shown any
sign of erosion in the three years we've owned it (except where I dug thru
it!).  We'd probably never pave it (even if it failed) since there's enough
asphalt in the world without our adding to it...
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:24:52 GMT

In article <HOLLEN.92Sep9152210@peg.megatek.UUCP> hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
>1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?
Roughly 200 ft by 200 ft. It's 4200 sq ft I think.

>2) How many square feet in an acre?
Oh. See above.

>3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?
Well, a mile is 5280 sq ft, so 1/4 mi is 1320 ft, or about 6 200 fts.
So I'd say 6x6=36. Since one of your exact answers was 40, I'd say
the answer is 40.
>
>I know I could work this out on a calculator but I have done it MANY
>different times and gotten a different answer nearly every time, that
>I no longer trust myself to be logical about it.
>
This is why I've crossposted to misc.kids, where we're discussing
whether estimating should be taught before 5 digit arithmetic.
This was all done in my head.

Kate


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Computers on the Farm
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Distribution: misc.rural
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:48:49 GMT

On 11 Sep 92 21:59:20 GMT, jwoodard@nmsu.edu (Jeff Woodard) said:

W> With all of this discussion on Real Farms, Capital Suicide, and all of
W> this, I was wondering how many farms are using computers for
W> management.
[....]
W> Anyway, my main question is of the growers/processors, what type of
W> platform is used i.e. workstation vs. PC. I know that Doan's publishes
W> a rather large list of agricultural programs, for PC's, but what does
W> the real market look like out there?

One can get a lot of software through the County Extension Agent.
Sometimes shareware, sometimes free.

Spreadsheets don't care what they're used for and are very popular.

There are also a number of bulletin boards for farmers, with things
like commodity prices, for example.  Software is sometimes available
from these.

Most of the farmers I know use PCs, more specifically IBM or clones
thereof.  Workstations would be overkill.  They use dot matrix
printers, not laser printers, too.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: How big is an acre, Really?
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:22:10 GMT

I have looked up the acre to square mile conversion factor (1 acre is
.0015625 acre) and am trying to figure out how many acres in a square
1/4 mile on a side, but every time I do, the figure does not seem
right.  One way of figuring it out gives me 40 acres, while another
says that there are 640 acres in a square mile, which means that the
1/4 x 1/4 mile would be 160 acres.  So, could someone please answer
the following questions:

1) What is the exterior dimension of an acre?
2) How many square feet in an acre?
3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?

I know I could work this out on a calculator but I have done it MANY
different times and gotten a different answer nearly every time, that
I no longer trust myself to be logical about it.

Thank you very much.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Reply-To: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:30:52 GMT

In article <FKITTRED.92Sep11084526@spchp11.BBN.COM>, fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM
(Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
> In article <1992Sep10.132611@IASTATE.EDU> darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
writes:
> >   production.  It is quite likely that eliminating all farm programs and
> >   agricultural trade barriers worldwide would result in higher U.S. 
> >   production because of the relative efficiency of U.S. agriculture.
> 
> That would be my point wouldn't it?  So I take it you are in favor of
> abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers.
> 
I personally am in favor of this, however I do have some misgivings.

It is entirely possible that abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers may
be a good thing.  The idea is that this would promote a more efficient
allocation of resources, which theoretically would increase social welfare.
It is also thought that this may lead to more diversified, less capital
and energy intensive production in the U.S.  A good share of the farmers
in this country would probably applaud such a move simply because it would
give them more freedom to decide what to do with their land.  

However, there are some other things to consider.  There is a national
interest in preserving a stable food supply.  There is a fundamental
difference between depending on foreign sources for something such as
oil compared to depending on foreign sources for food.  If we beleive
that there is the possibility that these sources will be cut off, then
people CAN survive without oil, but they CANNOT survive without food.
Also, the effects of abolishing all subsidies paid to farmers would likely
result in some significant shifts in regional economies.  Although society
as a whole may benefit, alot of individual families would be devistated.

From an economists point of view, there are also market failures to consider.
There are cases when the free market does not capture all of the relevant
effects.  Agricultural production can result in environmental damages, most
commonly through erosion and chemical run-off.  One way to regulate the levels
of these externalities is to require that preventative measures be taken in
order to receive government subsidies.  Whether or not this is the most
efficient means of regulation is open to debate.  My contention is that
eliminating government subsidies may lead to production practices that are
more environmentally friendly.  Farmers don't enjoy applying large doses of
chemicals to the land, after all they have to live there too.  If they have
more freedom to choose their production methods, they may reduce their use
of chemicals without any outside regulation.

As for me?  I plan to eventually return to the farm, subsidies or not :)

This is an interesting thread.  Comments?

Dave

___
Dave Archer
Department of Agricultural Economics
Iowa State University
From: AllanWS@cup.portal.com (Allan BA Schlaugat)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: well's - pumps/pressure tanks
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 92 01:13:23 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <65441@cup.portal.com> <bill.715997490@chaos.cs.umn.edu>

Heh. Maybe this newsgroup should be renamed misc.rural.wisconsin?!

Thanks for the replies; I have it narrowed to the pressure value/switch
and a local pump guru is going to look at it next week for 24 ears
of corn. (Some people.... ;-))

Thanks again!
Al Schlaugat
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
From: alper@sushi.psych.nwu.edu (Theodore M. Alper)
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:20:11 GMT

In article <5bhx024m21XB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> lmn00@thundercd.amdahl.com (Linda Newell) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.232452.7217@trentu.ca>, xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate
>Gregory) writes:
>|> >3) How many acres in a plot 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile?
>|> So I'd say 6x6=36. Since one of your exact answers was 40, I'd say
>|> the answer is 40.

>I'm not sure if this is funny or not, but if a mile is 5280 feet, a
>square mile is 5280*5280 square feet or 27878400 square feet.  1/4
>square mile is 6969600 square feet.  If one acre is .0015625 square 
>miles, than 1/4 square mile is .25/.0015625 acres or 160 acres, which
>makes sense since 640 acres is a square mile.
>Linda

I'll probably be one of a huge chorus, but in any case:
1/4 of a square mile isn't the same as 1/4 mile x 1/4 mile (which is
1/16 of a square mile). The first is 160 acres, the second only 40.


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Reply-To: darcher@IASTATE.EDU (David W Archer)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:56:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.180820.20687@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU
(Jim Heath) writes:
> 
> Does anyone have any figures about how much food would cost if
> there were no subsidies?  How about how much the subsidies cost
> the "average" family vs. how much food would go up without the
> subsidies? 

I'm sure this has come up in the GATT negotiations, I'll see what
I can find.

Dave

---
Dave Archer
Department of Agricultural Economics
Iowa State University
From: shibumi@joes.garage.com (Kenton A. Hoover)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: dealing with "meat" bees
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:05:18 GMT
Reply-To: shibumi@joes.garage.com
Organization: Joe's Garage, San Francisco, KA

sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com (Don Sawtelle) writes:
[talks about a problem bee infestation]

A number of years ago, a bee colony took up residence inside my second
cousin's house up in Bodega.  Their new hive was inside an exterior wall,
and periodically a few bees would find their way into the house and sting
one of us, or at least bash its brains out against the wall.

The solution was a home-grown one, and was derived from some reading I 
did on what would inadvertantly kill off bee colonies.

3/5ths sugar water
1/5th anise liquour
1/5th malathion

It works really well.  The idea is to make sure that the dose of 
pesticide isn't so big that the bees die off right away, but rather
go home to feed mom and the kids.

Or, if you are dealing with yellow jackets instead of bees, there
is an alternative formula.  Get some meat you wouldn't eat yourself
or feed to your family, and marinate it in your pesticide of choice.
Leave it out for your insect friends.  Keep it WELL AWAY from anyone
or anything you like (such as cats).  Feeds a family of quite a few.

These solutions aren't very kind, I will admit.  But its cheaper than
hiring an exterminator, and if you can't get a local beekeeper to 
move the hive for you, you might give it a try.  

As a 'PS', who buys those 'nice' yellow jacket traps and actually 
releases the yellow jackets when their picnics are over?

(flames to /dev/null)

| Kenton A. Hoover                                                            |
| P.O. Box 882643                                             +1 415 957 3614 |
| San Francisco, Kalifornia 94188-2643                shibumi@joes.garage.com |
|==============442.075+100=146.850+=444.625+131.8=440.900+114.8===============|
|   There are really only two crimes in California: misdemenor bad attitude   |
|                           and felony bad attitude                           |
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:50:14 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

I find myself wondering where we are going to raise food, when
the land has been paved over with housing, shopping, etc.
(Part of this problem may well be that there are just too
darned many of us.)

My great-grandparents raised wheat, first in South Dakotah and
then in Alberta, Canada.  My grandmother raised avocados and
watermelons in San Diego County.  I grew up in a rural area,
and still dream of raising apples, even though I know all the
headaches involved.  

Bashaw, Alberta, the town where my mother was born, is no
longer a sleepy agricultural village.  My grandmother's acres
of avocados and field of watermelons had apartment buildings
on it, last time I passed through.  The area of rural ranches
where I grew up is now a yuppie getaway haven, full of
fashionable archetecturally-progressive yuppie vacation homes
and boutiques selling designer potpouri and objet d'art.  One
of my dear friends still lives on her father's ranch, but the
condos are just over the hill, and a new shopping center was
built on her road.  

I left my beloved home county because I found I couldn't get a
job, there---though I'd hoped to work for the ag bureau or
something.  (I have a degree in botany.)  My grandmother sold
off most of her acreage to developers while she was still
alive, because it was much more profitable to sell the land
than to continue to cultivate it, and pay for water,
harvesting help, etc.  Economics is a strong motivating
factor, I fear.  Whither the farms and ranches of America?  I
fear they are a dying breed.

--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out."  --Barry
Shein, on the net
From: dleslie@SSD.intel.com (David Leslie)
Subject: Driveway paving questions
Originator: dleslie@nashville
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Distribution: or
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:27:35 GMT

We have a long (600 foot) gravel driveway which is currently in pretty bad
shape.  Most of it slopes pretty gently, but at the bottom there is
a relatively steep rise right off the road, and we've got some deep ruts
in it.  When we bought the place two years ago the driveway was in good
shape, but it's deteriorated a lot since then.  It seems that simply 
grading and re-gravelling would be only a temporary fix, and paving 
is the right way to solve the problem.

So here are my questions  --
	Any idea how much this might cost?  Here I'm talking about
	grading the lower 50 feet or so, doing whatever else it takes
	to prepare the rest of the driveway, and putting asphalt on
	the whole thing.

	Anyone know of any paving contractors to recommend or stay
	away from?

	Any other possible solutions I'm overlooking?

Thanks.  Please respond via email, I don't get a chance to
read news very often. 


Dave Leslie
dleslie@ssd.intel.com
From: fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Capital Suicide (was Real Farms)
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:40:34 GMT
	<1992Sep5.053020.22472@nuscc.nus.sg>
	<1992Sep9.123659.23270@dg-rtp.dg.com>
	<BuD2LF.7s5@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp11.bbn.com
In-reply-to: bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca's message of 10 Sep 92 11:58:26 GMT

In article <BuD2LF.7s5@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong) writes:

>   From: bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong)

>   100 years ago, most people had much more appreciation and respect for
>   agriculture than they do now.  About 80% (at least in my area) of the
>   population (and therefore 80% of the politicians and economists) came
>   from a rural background.

They appreciated agriculture alright.  They knew agricultural labor
was a backbreaking, dangerous and economcially and intellectually
unrewarding life.  The vast majority were extrodinarily glad to get
off the farm, even if it meant working in some factory on an assembly
line.

>   I believe that it is very dangerous for our society to look at farming as
>   merely another business enterprise and food as merely another commodity.
>   If the computer software biz went belly up, I'd be out of a job but life
>   would go on.  Without a stable agricultural base, and good decisions made 
>   at the governmental and corporate level, our whole civilization would
>   be in danger of expiring.

I defend to the death your right to have such opinons, but *MY*
opinion is that this is an example of muddy thinking.  Farming is just
another business enterprise, abet one with political clout.  The
economic laws of efficient producers hold as well as any other
business, and we should buy our food from whomever is the best
supplier.  Punishing consumers to support the livestyles of a few
farmers is morally bankrupt.


By you line of reasoning, every country should maintain a complete and
independent agricultural industry in order to protect their
"civilization."  Therefore, the Japanese, Europeans, Russians, Arabs,
Africans and Mexicans should ban imports of North American food
products in order to protect their own inefficient argricultural
industries.  I suspect this would be a net blow to the North American
agriculture economies.

As to your second point, the economy is so interdependent, if the a
industry the size of the software industry went belly up, we would all
be in big trouble.

I applaud your choice to live on a farm.  Just don't expect us to pay
for it!

regards,
fletcher


--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
Xref: sparky misc.rural:2113 misc.kids:23485
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.kids
Subject: Re: How big is an acre, Really?
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:49:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <bill.716510510@chaos.cs.umn.edu> bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon ... psychohistorian) writes:
>In <Sep10.152820.91163@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
>
>>      Draw a square 1 unit per side.  Divide each side in half.  There are
>>      now 4 squares, but the sides of each square are 1/2 a unit long.
>>      Divide each side of each square in half again.  Eureka.  16 squares,
>>      each of which has sides 1/4 unit long.
>
>>     John Cooley
>
>>     Is this hard?!?
>
>to many people this is indead hard. many people (no matter how it's explained)
>refuse to believe that an area 1/4 on a side is not the same as 1/4 of an area.

It's funny, because on that great tv show "The Dukes of Hazzard", this used
to be one of the "idiot tricks" that Boss Hogg played on Rosco (the "great"
is a joke).  Anyway, he'd promise Rosco a "cut" of money from one of his
deals, and it usually went "I'll give you 25%.  I'll even give you 25% of
25%!"

It's amazing how many people apparently think that's a good deal...

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"It's a marvel of vegetable containment..."
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Driveway paving questions
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: or
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:50:39 GMT

In <1992Sep8.182735.26325@SSD.intel.com> dleslie@SSD.intel.com (David Leslie) writes:

>We have a long (600 foot) gravel driveway which is currently in pretty bad

mine is ~1/4 - 1/3 mile. not short not long. but for what it'll cost to pave
most roads you can fix em up for a long time. for info see your dept of transp.
they can tell you how a road s/b built for your area.

>shape.  Most of it slopes pretty gently, but at the bottom there is
>a relatively steep rise right off the road, and we've got some deep ruts
>in it.  When we bought the place two years ago the driveway was in good
>shape, but it's deteriorated a lot since then.  It seems that simply 
>grading and re-gravelling would be only a temporary fix, and paving 
>is the right way to solve the problem.

what i'm getting ready to do is tile it, yep tile. i'll dig out ~1 ft wide
slot ~2 ft deep, drop some gravel, a piece of tile and backfill with gravel.
this will be ~45 degrees or so to the road this should trap the water running
down the road and shunt it off to the field. lots cheeper than paving, sealing
fixing. paved is not forever ya know.

>So here are my questions  --
>	Any idea how much this might cost?  Here I'm talking about

how wide? how much fill? what grade of fill? how thick of pavement?
it's a bit more involved than just pouring some asphalt/concrete from here
to there?

>	grading the lower 50 feet or so, doing whatever else it takes
>	to prepare the rest of the driveway, and putting asphalt on
>	the whole thing.

>	Anyone know of any paving contractors to recommend or stay
>	away from?

definatly go see some of their work!!!!!

>	Any other possible solutions I'm overlooking?

see mine above. its an experiment but i do beiele it'll do what i need, where
i'm at.

>Thanks.  Please respond via email, I don't get a chance to
>read news very often. 
 sorry but i posted as this seems to be pertinant to this group.

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon ... psychohistorian)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Mowing the driveway
Keywords: herbicide, environment
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:38:24 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <1992Sep10.124825.25091@copi.cmhnet.org> bob@copi.cmhnet.org (Bob Williams) writes:

>So I don't have to mow it (the driveway) anymore, I'm looking for a herbicide
>that'll kill the weeds, but not persist and kill all sorts of other things, too.

hmm and i keep trying to get the weeds to grow so they'll hold my driveway
in one place when it rains and during spring melt. darn some people have 
all the luck:-)

>There's a creek that's about 100 yards downhill from where my driveway hits the
>road, and I really don't want to dump nasty poisons into it.

you will need something which will decompose real fast. see your co-ext agent
for whats allowed (as time passes there are more and more restrictions on 
herbicide use)

>Answers, suggestions should be emailed to me, and I'll post a summary in a
>few weeks.

sorry mail bounced.

>Anti-environmental flames should be directed to /dev/null...

well thats also what you could do. burn it off.

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural