HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods)
Subject: Re: clinton-gore.org
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:52:23 GMT

In article <10299.9209291301@pyr.swan.ac.uk> iiitac@PYR.SWAN.AC.UK (Alan Cox) writes:
>
>They are potentially breaking two things. I've not seen them break
>anything yet, and I'd be suprised if they did so
>
>1) They can't exactly use the nsfnet backbone for their services

Let's not forget that the only things prohibited on the NSFnet backbone
are *unsolicited*. If I am at a site that is legally attached to the
NSFnet for research purposes, and I specifically request information
on the Clinton-Gore campaign from someone at clinton-gore.org, they
are perfectly well allowed to respond. This certainly holds true for
commercial companies as well. The only thing that is explicitly prohibited
in the "NSFnet Acceptable Use Policy" is *unsolicited* commercial traffic,
or the conducting of internal company business across the NSFnet backbone.
While the NSF AUP does not specifically mention political campaigning,
my guess is that political statements from an organization explicitly
affiliated with one particular candidate could be considered something
that is prohibited unless it is explicitly solicited. Other facts to 
remember are that the NSFnet backbone is not the entire Internet (in
fact, clinton-gore.org does not appear to be directly attached since
their mail goes via UUNET) and that the NSF AUP does not explicitly
mention political campaigning, only commercial or illegal traffic.
Certainly something made available only via anonymous FTP is never
sent out on to the net at large unless someone explicitly requests it.

--Greg
Xref: sparky news.admin:7775 rec.video.satellite:5163 misc.forsale.computers:35042 biz.comp.services:240
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.video.satellite,misc.forsale.computers,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Usenet News via Satellite
From: len@netsys.com (Len Rose)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:56:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netsys Inc.
Keywords: Usenet Satellite 9600bps

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

>kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:

>>len@netsys.netsys.com (Len Rose) writes:

>>> The system consists of a 45 cm dish,small receiver, and modem....
>>.....
>>> will be increasing the price to 2100.00 within 30 days. 

>>Sounds awfully expensive for what appears to be a KU-band system. Similar
>>setups have been running about $500 (less the "modem").

>I was thinking the same thing -- there is lots of room for profit -
>too much in my opinion 

>I would rather spend the $2000 on phone calls -- since that way the 
>link will be bidirectional -- let alone the prospect of
>the uplink going out of business sticking endusers with some KU
>downlink gear with no service (which btw has happened with at least
>a dozen other DBS ventures)
>Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
>keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

 Hi Larry..

 Since we know you have a vested interested in people picking up newsfeeds
 via phone, I won't complain if you don't complain about what I have to say.
 
 PageSat/ISS Engineering has been in the uplink business for over 10 years.
 They have been serving major paging customers for most of that time. We  
 have alot of bandwidth still available on our transponders, and we already  
 have the equipment. It's been used for our other commerical customers for
 years, with the exception of the modem, which is relatively new hardware..

 Our facilities in Palo Alto (right across the street from Sun), and 
 Mountain View, Ca.  cost us alot of money. We don't operate out of a 
 garage, or a basement like quite a few "commerical" service providers I 
 know of. Our transponders cost alot of money too.So does R&D and we spend 
 alot of money on that. So, add up the costs.. We are providing every single 
 newsgroup in the world (that we can obtain), all at 9600 bps,and it's
 reliable. We have generators, ups systems,24 hour staffing, and have to 
 operate that way since we have alot more at stake than just a newsfeed. 

 We are starting some major network operations here, and those too demand 
 staffing 24 hours a day. 

 I think we are being quite reasonable with the costs, and ultimately, I 
 hope we'll never charge for anything else. 

 I wish you could see our cost per system. Our accountants hate me because we 
 don't charge enough according to them.

 
-- 
len@netsys.com (rutgers!netsys!len) "What a long,strange trip it's been.."

For more information regarding the Pagesat Usenet to Satellite Uplink system,
mail to "pagesat@netsys.com" or call: 415-424-0380 (ask for marketing)
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon, US
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:46:08 GMT

scs@adam.mit.edu (Steve Summit) writes:

> I can't speak for Randy, but I'm just saying that people
> composing news articles can't be asked to make allowances for
> deficient pieces of news software which they might not even know
> about.

You've got the job. :-)

What amuses me is the folk like Matthew telling me all about what UUCP
links need.  I run UUCP links from the US to Peru, Southern Africa, ...
Next they'll tell me what FidoNet can and can't handle, when I run that
major gate was well.

Computers are to serve people, not vice versa.  Fix broken or limited
software.  Enforce standards.

randy
-- 
randy@psg.com   ...!uunet!m2xenix!randy
Xref: sparky news.admin:7784 rec.video.satellite:5178 misc.forsale.computers:35111 biz.comp.services:245
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.video.satellite,misc.forsale.computers,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Usenet News via Satellite
Summary: More info
Keywords: Usenet Satellite 9600bps
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:01:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <1992Sep28.041839.28539@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>len@netsys.com (Len Rose) writes:
>
>> I think we are being quite reasonable with the costs, and ultimately, I 
>> hope we'll never charge for anything else. 
>
>A nobel thought, albeit misplaced. Companies are in business to make money
>by providing a service. You don't make money by not charging for a service
>you are providing.
>
>In subsequent years, there will be a "cost" to use this downlink system.
>What that cost is, however, will not be known until some later time.
>
>That, coupled with the high cost of initial hardware investment, makes this
>a questionable investment, in my opinion.

Moreover, transponder time is REAL expensive.

The question here is how many people buy the service + equipment.  If the
number is large, you might get by with a much lower monthly cost.  If the
number is small, then you might end up with a larger monthly cost, or no
service at all!

Absent a guarantee that (1) the company will be around, and (2) that the
news will continue to flow at some fixed price past the first year, this
doesn't sound like anything other than a hell of a gamble.

Note that "Stargate" died, and so have the other "news by satellite" people
which have come before.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
From: wohler@sapwdf.UUCP (Bill Wohler)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: many unparsable dates as of late
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:11:09 GMT
Reply-To: Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de>
Organization: SAP AG, Walldorf, Germany

folks,

  lately, we've been deluged by articles with unparsable dates.
  examples include:

	Sun, 13 Sep 92 06:50:57 CET
	3 Oct 92 08:53:09 GMT+1
	2 Oct 92 18:13:07 UT

  i think getdate() is just barfing on the timezones.  (are GMT+1 and
  UT legal timezones?)

  we're still running B news.

	o what would be *the* document that documents legal headers? 
	  rfc 1036 still?

	o should we get our act together and upgrade to C news?  does
	  C news fix the timezone problem?  (what other advantages to C
	  news are there?  is it worth our trouble?)

	o other

Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de> <sapwdf!wohler>
Heidelberg Red Barons Ultimate Frisbee Team
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.b,news.software.readers
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: NFS vs NNTP for news reading
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:52:10 GMT

richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) wrote: 
->It seems to be conventional wisdom that users actually _want_ to
->do a shell-escape to grep a spool directory for something.

actually, i think it is something that the individuals posting to this
space want to do ... but i don't think this is what the general
population wants.

->Personally, I'd much rather have a newsreader and news transport which has
->this kind of capability built in.  ...

much better.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical
Subject: Re: NFS vs NNTP for news reading
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:04:16 GMT
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <56289@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, jerry@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Jerry Aguirre) wrote:
> So, what you are saying is that it is more important to get new news,

I'd say that's a definite yes. If you think your users get upset when
their newsreaders take a fraction of a second longer to respond, wait
until they stop getting news in a timely fashion because your way
behind in dealing with in.coming.

	<mike
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical
From: j4jbail@srv.pacbell.com (Jack Bailey)
Subject: can't post news: cnews/ISC3.0.1
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:29:08 GMT

After a conversion from bnews to cnews, I find I can't post
anything.  Everything looks ok: no errors are logged, no nasty
messages are shot back at me.  But nothing gets queued either.

If you're running cnews on ISC3.0, I'd like to hear from you.

-- 
J.J.Bailey	j4jbail@srv.pacbell.com
Contractor	510.823.6453
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.b,news.software.readers
From: axs@cs.bham.ac.uk (Aaron Sloman)
Subject: Re: NFS vs NNTP for news reading
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 21:05:30 GMT

cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes:

> Date: 25 Sep 92 22:32:51 GMT
> Organization: Consilium Inc., Mountain View, California

> The general consensus around here is that NNTP allows for better performance
> monitoring and control of news reading than NFS.  We run our news connection
> to the outside world on a SUN-3 and that system would be severely taxed if it
> had to handle NFS demands from within the company as well as unwind the news
> batches from UUNET.  NNTP requests have been much more palatable for this
> system and the priority of NNTP can be set down if too many people are reading
> the news.

And, as I mentioned in a previous reply, if the *only* purpose of
NFS on the server is to support news readings, you can also reduce
the priority of nfsd processes.

I am getting the impression that a lot depends on the configuration.
E.g. my experience is that having a Sun-3 export disks via NFS to
*much faster* workstations, e.g. SPARCStations, can put a much
larger load on the machine and the network than if the clients were
better matched to the server. Perhaps it seems to have something to
do with the frequency of failed attempts to contact the server when
the server is busy?

It seems to me from all the comments so far that the only way to
find out what works well is to try various options, and the results
will depend on the configuration and the number of simultaneous news
users. In my department the news system is used by a relatively
small number of people at any one time, so I would like to maximise
its functionality for them.

Aaron
-- 
Aaron Sloman, School of Computer Science,
The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, England
EMAIL   A.Sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk
Phone: +44-(0)21-414-3711       Fax:   +44-(0)21-414-4281
Newsgroups: news.admin,rec.video.satellite,misc.forsale.computers,biz.comp.services
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Usenet News via Satellite
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:41:32 GMT
Keywords: Usenet Satellite 9600bps

Not knowing the cost is indeed a major factor stopping people from getting
such a service.

Netnews is a one-to-many medium, and satellite feeds are indeed a superbly
efficient mechanism of distribution for the downward link.   After all,
netnews is already flowing on many point-to-point links that happen to
be going via satellite -- what a waste.

A Satellite feed, with a phone-line back channel to request articles that
didn't make, it and to send out local postings and e-mail should be a big
win.  Instant delivery for a flat fee anywhere in the country.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: june@f308.n133.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ed June)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: who pays for Greek barbarism
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:24:05 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:133/308 - Information Overloa, Riverdale GA

On <Oct 05 01:37>, Serdar Argic of 1:133/411 wrote to All:

 SA> From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
 SA> Date: 30 Sep 92 00:08:54 GMT
 SA> Message-ID: <9209292008@zuma.UUCP>
 SA> Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.
 SA> soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,news.ad
 SA> min

 SA> In article <1992Sep28.175616.6347@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> 
 SA> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) 
 SA> writes:

>Nah, he's just Mutley's news feed... 

 SA> "Osipacik." When you have finished "nahing" I'd suggest you answer 
 SA> the points Jewish scholars raised below.



Why!?! What is this to do with news.admin?
Have I 'subscribed' to yet another useless mislabeled newsgroup?



   Ed June

   Fidonet:   1:133/308, Atlanta's OS/2 Users Group BBS, 404-471-1549
   Internet:  ed_june@over.mind.org
   UUCP:      ...!emory!uumind!overmind!ed_june


--  

Fidonet:   1:133/308, Atlanta's OS/2 Users Group BBS, 404-471-1549
Internet:  june@gisatl.fidonet.org
UUCP :     ...!gatech!warlord!gisatl!308!june
From: rob@mother.bates.edu (Rob Spellman)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: How to moderate a newsgroup
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:15:22 GMT
Organization: Bates College, Lewiston, ME

How does a moderator of a newsgroup submit postings for a group that
they have received in the mail?

-- 
Rob Spellman
rob@mother.bates.edu
Computing Support Services
Bates College
From: dricejb@drilex.dri.mgh.com (Craig Jackson drilex1)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:10:49 GMT
Organization: DRI/McGraw-Hill, Lexington, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Excuse me if I'm saying something already said; I only read this group about
half the time.

I'm sure that the ancestral reason for the 64K limit was Notes.  I remember
notes people complaining about large messages all the time, six or seven
years ago.  Also, people complaining that Notes had mangled their messages.
Seeing as though Notes is not a big thing on the net these days, outside
of HP, I don't think that problem still exists.

As the previous poster mentioned, sendmail used to ship with a 100k limit.
-- 
Craig Jackson
dricejb@drilex.dri.mgh.com
{bbn,alliant,redsox,atexnet,ka3ovk}!drilex!{dricej,dricejb}
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: bud@mtek.com (Bud Hovell)
Subject: Re: who pays for USENET
Reply-To: bud@mtek.com
Organization: MTEK International, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:37:12 GMT

mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:

>In article <1992Sep26.175907.3013@mtek.com> bud@mtek.com writes:
>>Excuse me, Marc, but you seem to be operating under some new-age
>>illusion that suggests employees have an inherent primacy in the
>>food-chain of organizational funding.

>I think you misunderstand what I said.  Let me clarify:

>Suppose your company has two boxes to put money in.  One of them is
>labelled "bud@mtek.com's salary".  The other is labelled "Everything
>else".  Now, money that they put in the "Everything else" box cannot
>also be in the "bud@mtek.com's salary" box.  This is what I meant when
>I said, "Money that the company uses for restrooms, etc. (everything
>except paying the employee's salary) is money that they cannot pay
>you."

I believe I understood perfectly. Let *me* clarify, using your example
above:

"Now, money that they put in the `bud@mtek.com's salary' box cannot
also be in the `Everything else' box."

This phrasing strongly suggests that "bud@mtek.com's salary" should
be paid only to some inescapable minimum in order to optimize funding
for the (presumably) more important "Everything else".

Would you agree with this rendering, which only reverses your order
of presentation?

*Either* phrasing implies preference of one disposition of funds over
the other, unless where followed by a balancing qualifier such as:
"And vice versa." Notably absent.
-- 
________________________________________________________________
bud@mtek.com ... uunet!m2xenix!mtek!bud ... bud@rigel.cs.pdx.edu
MTEK International, Inc.             Throughput Technology Corp.
Throughput!
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: pac@sso.larc.nasa.gov ()
Subject: Need local site with more groups
Reply-To: pac@sso.larc.nasa.gov ()
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:06:53 GMT

Hey there.  I'm in need of a local, accessible site so that
I can gain access to some news groups that are of interest,
and that are not on my local USENET site.  Mostly interested
in the ALT.*.* groups, and my location is in Southeastern 
Virginia.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Patrick     pac@sso.larc.nasa.gov


Newsgroups: news.admin
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:43:34 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to jon%vector0.UUCP@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Dazed N. Confused):
> The solution, ultimately, is to CLEAN UP THE NET.

I don't think that goal can be accomplished.  Do you?
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
    "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this
     group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings
     are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur."           -- Matt Welsh
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:36:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: ulogic.372
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Oct3.191106.18867@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>When articles get split up they often can only be pieced back together manually.

This seems to indicate stupider software than the fact that some modems
lose large articles. 

>I have programs which assist in this process,

Obviously the way to go.

>but even those only get to about 90% accuracy. 

???

>There are many occasions in which one part in a ten part post gets
>lost. In this case the whole article is useless. It would waste fewer 
>resources here if either the whole article arrived, or none of it did.

Hold the pieces until all arrive.  Piece it together then.  If you
don't get the last piece w/in a reasonable time, junk the article.
You keep 9/10ths on you disk for a couple days max.

However if we have to keep redialing to get a loooong (unsplit) article
and bomb repeatedly 9/10th the way through it the (admittedly stupid)
software tries again.

Which is the larger waste?  Phone line time or disk space?  

That is a purely subjective evaluation.

IMHO I'd rather collect pieces and junk things if the last one
doesn't arrive than keep redialing for something that may never
arrive in one piece.....



		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Fosters!  It's Australian for beer, mate!"
From: schmitz@scd.hp.com (John Schmitz)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Ill-effects of a posting greater than 64k
Date: 28 Sep 1992 20:37:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Santa Clara Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsceo.scd.hp.com

scs@adam.mit.edu (Steve Summit) writes:
>      c.	I can think of other ways of solving the problems which
> 	size limits try to solve;
> 
> I prefer to ignore them whenever possible, which is most of the
> time.  (The "other ways of solving the problems" involve things
> like per-user incoming mail spool disk quotas and per-newsgroup
> news spool disk quotas

Regarding size limits:  another approach might be to use something
like MIME to encode a article into several pieces for transmission
and also use it to decode the pieces into a viewable article.  There
are problems with this (what do you do if not all the pieces are
available together ever due to transmission delays?), but it might
be worth a look.  I've added MIME support to trn.
From: mician@sol.csee.usf.edu (Rudy Mician)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: c-news on an APOLLO 10,000
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: ariel.1992Sep28.215630.7631
Reply-To: mician@sol.csee.usf.edu (Rudy Mician)
Organization: University of South Florida at Tampa


Posted for a friend:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you post a message to the newsgroup news.newsadmin or whatever
the closest group to that sort of thing is... requesting info from anyone
who has built and run c-news on an APOLLO 10,000, using the DOMAIN/IX
environment  (actually DOMAIN SR 10.4), running SYS V on a DN 10,000,
often referred to as a PRISM machine.

We have a site nearby ready to provide us a full feed, etc, and are just
waiting for us to build it all.  We have run into some snags, and would
like to hear from people who may have such a weird setup like this, and
thus could help.  If you have the time to do this, please let me know
and thanks.  Please send all responses by email rather than back to the
group, directed EITHER TO
	jonathan@inference.com    OR
	mannex@inference.com

Thanks.  We're stumped.  There are better machines here to do it on, but
they don't want the gateway internet machine to be the news server,
in case of crashes, etc.  Makes sense to me, but an APOLLO???!?!?!


-- 
   -=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=--=*=-=*=- 
     Rudy Mician     mician@sol.csee.usf.edu           _   /|
                                                       \'o.O'
                                                       =(___)=
                                                          U