From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: McGuire's racism (was Jewish racism 1/2-2/2)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 02:50:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


More from the mind(?) of Wayne McGuire...


#To: Mark Ira Kaufman
#
# MIK> In a recent post, Wayne McGuire fixated on a man who he
# MIK> claims was a racist.  While it's evident that Wayne McGuire
# MIK> knows little or nothing about the man whose reputation he
# MIK> assailed, his skewed vision of this man is not the main
# MIK> reason that this post is, IMO, another example of Wayne
# MIK> McGuire's anti-semitism.  He labeled his post "Jewish
# MIK> racism."
#
#The man we are talking about is Ze'ev Jabotinsky, one of the most
#influential figures in the history of Zionism, and the
#ideological godfather of the political movement which was most
#recently led by Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir.
#
#A few questions:
#
#Do you deny that Jabotinsky made the racist remarks I quoted (and
#which I will quote below)?

   No.  But they are not racist.  They are racial.  There's a big
   difference that may be beyond your ability to grasp.  However,
   I will give it a shot, for the benefit of those who have minds
   unfettered by the ravages of anti-semitism.


#How do Jabotinsky's views about the racial purity of Jews differ
#from the views of Nazis on German racial purity?

   The comparison is ludicrous.  Jews have been a group of people
   who have been victims of efforts to wipe them from the face of
   the earth.  Our numbers are tiny, but we've NEVER felt that we 
   must protect our existence by eliminating anyone else's.  Your
   parallel between Jabotinsky's "racism" and the genocidal views
   of the nazis is simply more evidence of your bigotry, and your
   stupidity.


#Is it unfair to label KKK members and neo-Nazis as "white
#racists" and advocates of "white racism"? The term "white racism"
#is used all the time in polite parlance. German neo-Nazis are
#proponents of "German racism," clearly. If Jabotinsky's views are
#not an example of "Jewish racism," then what term would you use
#to describe them?

    There is no comparison between the views of Jabotinsky and an
    ideology that reeks of "existential parasitism."  Jews do not
    validate their Jewishness, by invalidation of the humanity of
    non-Jews.


#Just today, Yitzhak Shamir, the former prime minister of Israel,
#has been quoted as describing "the Arabs"--ALL Arabs--as lovers
#of murder and murderers. What term would you use to describe this
#form of racism, I wonder?

    Are you suggesting this is how Jews in general feel?


#Do you criticize Israelis when they use the term "Arab terrorism"
#to describe instances of Arab terrorism? Is "Arab terrorism" a
#legitimate term in polite political dialogue?

    I object to ANY references of a minority of extremeists being
    used to depict the whole group!  This is why you are a racist 
    piece of shit.


#Are you a defender or admirer of Jabotinsky, btw? You seem to be
#speaking of him respectfully. Do you share his views on the
#subject of Jewish racial purity?

    My views of Jabotinsky are too complex to be portrayed by any
    'yes' or 'no' answer to your simplistic question.  Also, it's
    beyond your ability to understand this complex man.  The mere
    fact that you would try to portray him as some sort of racist
    shows that you do not possess the necessary mental ability to
    deal with a subject as complicated as Jabotinsky, who was NOT
    a bigot as you have attempted to portray him.


#I truly doubt that trying to smear anyone who raises these
#questions as a "rabid anti-Semite" is going to take anyone's eyes
#off the ball. This would be like German neo-Nazis answering
#complaints about their German racism with the laughable charge
#that their critics are "rabid anti-Germans." It just won't wash,
#at least in the civilized world.

    Your racism is self-evident.  Your vision of Jews and Judaism
    is so skewed by your bigotry that you can't possibly see what
    you are saying.  I think that your brain has been rotted away
    by hatred.  It's not the first time we have seen this.  And I
    am sad to say that it will not be the last.


#Leading Zionist ideologue Ze'ev Jabotinsky preaches the
#     doctrine of Jewish racial purity. (Schoenman Hidden History
#     of Zionism 1988)
#
#<doctype>book
#<author>Schoenman, Ralph
#<title>The Hidden History of Zionism
#<city>Santa Barbara, CA
#<publisher>Veritas Press
#<year>1988
#
#<excerpt>
#
#     It's interesting to recall, as well, that Jabotinsky located
#     his colonial impulse in the doctrine of the purity of blood.
#     Jabotinsky spelled this out in his "Letter on Autonomy:"
#
#     "It is impossible for a man to become assimilated with
#     people whose blood is different than his own. In order to
#     become assimilated, he must change his body, he must become
#     one of them, in blood. There can be no assimilation. We
#     shall never allow such things as mixed marriage because the
#     preservation of national integrity is impossible except by
#     means of racial purity and for that purpose we shall have
#     this territory where our people will constitute the racially
#     pure inhabitants."
#
#     This theme was further elaborated by Jabotinsky:
#
#     "The source of national feeling ... lies in a man's blood
#     ... in his racio-physico type and in that alone.... A man's
#     spiritual outlook is primarily determined by his physical
#     structure. For that reason we do not believe in spiritual
#     assimilation. It is inconceivable, from the physical point
#     of view, that a Jew born to a family of pure Jewish blood
#     can become adapted to the spiritual outlook of a German or a
#     Frenchman. He may be wholly imbued with that German fluid,
#     but the nucleus of his spiritual structure will always
#     remain Jewish."
#
#     The adoption of chauvinist doctrines of racial purity and
#     the logic of the blood were not confined to Jabotinsky or to
#     the revisionists. The liberal philosopher, Martin Buber,
#     located his Zionism equally within the framework of European
#     racist doctrine:
#
#     "The deepest layers of our being are determined by blood;
#     our innermost thinking and our will are colored by it."


    Now I have a question for you, Mr. McGuire.

    Is there even ONE WORD of racial bigotry about another group,
    sect, people, religion, nationality or culture in ANY of your  
    quotes of Jabotinsky or Buber?

    I have ANOTHER question for you.

    There is obviously a vigorous dialogue within Jewish circles,
    regarding the middle east situation.  When the fundamentalist 
    Jewish crazies do their thing, there is ALWAYS a noisy outcry
    withing world Jewry condemning the violence that is heaped on  
    innocent Arabs.

    Can you provide quotes from any responsible Arabs, condemning 
    violence directed at Jews?  I would settle for one quote from
    any Arab official condemning any specific terrorist act by an
    Arab directed at Jews.  (I am certain that you'll provide the 
    same precise references that you do when you try to make Jews
    look bad!)
    
    With every word you write you add to the collection of hatred  
    that you have been posting in this group.  Your feeble effort
    to paint Judaism into some kind moral corner has done nothing 
    but shown this group what an anti-semite you are.  You whined
    about being called an anti-semite, but whining about it won't 
    help erase what you have already posted.

    Wayne, you are out of your league.  It's not that I'm so much
    smarter than the average person.  It is that you are so DUMB!

    Oh yes.  I have just one more question for you.

    Why are you SO hung up about Jews???