HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage)
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:28:52 GMT

In <18NOV92.17391311@vax.clarku.edu> rgoldberg@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>Why are people so pathetic?  And this is not meant to criticize anyone 
>personally or to say that FFC's Dracula was the best movie of all time or 
>anything.  But it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to anticipate this 
>movie as if it were the Second Coming, and then to say it was the worst piece 
>of trash ever after seeing it.  Kind of like when it becomes trendy to 
>criticize trendiness.  Or when people want to look "different" so they pierce 
>various body parts, dye their hair various colors, and wear MC's with 
>white-out all over them, so they all end up looking the same!  Which is not to 
>say that such a look is not appealing, either... it's just that it seems like 
>it's becoming "cool" to criticize the film, to be like, "Well, I'm a REAL 
>vampire fanatic, so of course it couldn't live up to MY expectations" kind of 
>thing.  I happened to adore the movie, some people might not, whatever.  But 
>I'm sure tyhis bulletin could be put to much better use than WHINING about 
>it!!!

Well, I had no anticipation for the movie, a friend drug me to it (I am
not speaking to her :) ) and quite frankly I didn't expect much from
fcc.  Wow! maybe I should try expecting a great movie in the future,
then when I see it, the selffulfilling prophecy might make it at least
tolerable.  Quite simply the movie stunk.  Enough said, and I certainly
am not trying to be trendy, just trying to get the word out to folks to
save their hard earned dollars and put it to better use, like flushing
it down the toilet!!!!!

*****************************************************************************
*       Spiritus Sanctus Anno Mundi:  Can you see me, are you near me?      *
* Can you hear me crying out for life?  Can you tell me, where's the glory? *
*     BLACK         **********************************      SABBATH         *
*******************  flar@iastate.edu (Brad Armitage)  **********************

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: jmalcolm@sura.net (Joseph Malcolm)
Subject: Re: Dracula Soundtrack?
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:22:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.174041.17367@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> tabaer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Troy A Baer) writes:
>Is there going to be a soundtrack CD for F.F. Coppola's new Dracula?  I
>enjoyed the score, and I would like to have it for background music for
>Vampire: the Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu, and other horror RPG's.  I checked
>in a couple record stores in the OSU campus area yesterday, but couldn't
>find anything.

The "New Releases" board at the local Kemp Mill (semi-reasonable
chain store around here) says it's supposed to come out the 24th,
which is this next Tuesday. Well, actually, that's when they
expect to get it. Make of that what you will.

-- 
Joseph Malcolm				jmalcolm@sura.net		
SURAnet Operations			+1 301 982 4600
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: sundermm@columbia.dsu.edu (MARC SUNDERMEYER)
Subject: Looking for SWFV
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:42:45 GMT


Some say that vampires are real and I am looking for a single, white, 
female, vampire with a bodily age of 20 to 30 years besides her actual 
age of 100 or more years.  
				Thank you.
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Re: How to watch FCC's Dracula!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:24:24 GMT


      Alright already.  We know that you did not like the movie.  We know
that you did not like the casting.  We know you did not like the FX.  We also
know that you did not like Anthony Hopkin's portrayal of VanHelsing.  Also, 
we know that the movie did not follow the original book by Stoker faithfully.
Additionally, we know that you would not recommend the movie to a friend,
except maybe once it came out on video.  We know the shadow scene was hokey, and
we also know that you did not like the cheesy performance by Keanu.  So why
must so many of you continue to remind those of us who already know your opinion
that the movie was bad?  Can we pelase move on to a new subject, or at least new
information regarding the film?  I really don't like having to wade through
35 articles a day just to hear that somebody else did not like the movie.

      Now that that is said, I have a new subject to propose.  We have seen from
time to time fiction posted here.  And a poem or two has been offered.  I would
like to ask all you budding young poets out there to jot down your best ode to
a vampire and post it here.  I am collecting vampire poetry for a friend of
mine.  She is absolutely in love with the undead, and is a voracious reader of
morbid and macabre poetry.  Any takers?  Thank you in advance.

                                                    Glenn

P.S.  Please post them here.  I do not have access to my mailbox because I
      am forced to share this account with another.  But I didn't say that.

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: aw1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Andrew Wargo)
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: world,local
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:21:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.121455.3998@arizona.edu> nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson) writes:
>In article <18NOV92.17391311@vax.clarku.edu>, rgoldberg@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>|> Why are people so pathetic?  And this is not meant to criticize anyone 
>|> personally or to say that FFC's Dracula was the best movie of all time or 
>|> anything.  But it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to anticipate this 
>|> movie as if it were the Second Coming, and then to say it was the worst piece 
>|> of trash ever after seeing it.  Kind of like when it becomes trendy to 
>|> criticize trendiness.  Or when people want to look "different" so they pierce 
>|> various body parts, dye their hair various colors, and wear MC's with 
>|> white-out all over them, so they all end up looking the same!  Which is not to 
>|> say that such a look is not appealing, either... it's just that it seems like 
>|> it's becoming "cool" to criticize the film, to be like, "Well, I'm a REAL 
>|> vampire fanatic, so of course it couldn't live up to MY expectations" kind of 
>|> thing.  I happened to adore the movie, some people might not, whatever.  But 
>|> I'm sure tyhis bulletin could be put to much better use than WHINING about 
>|> it!!!
>
>Based on the fact that many of the critics has supported their
>beliefs, some in great detail (and having seen the movie I know they
>are correct), failure of the movie goes way beyond just a kind of
>wanting to agree with everyone by criticizing it.
>
>Movie sucked.
>			- Jeff

 I can list off the top of my head 300 people who loved the movie.
I was one of them. Now, for Jeff here...The movie may have sucked to you 
and a lot of other people..that's dandy. But, by posting your unqualified
article, you quite obviously are unaccustomed to the idea of allowing a 
differing opinion to even quietly drift by your head. So, in the future,
please continue to post those unqualified articles.


--
Regnat Populus!  | aw1@ra.msstate.edu | kith-kanan@rhostshyl.cit.cornell.edu
The People Rule! | awargo@nyx.cs.edu  | Kithan @Soucon | Pax Christi
                 |                    |                | Peace of Christ
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: mgamboa@zeus.calpoly.edu (Nitehawk)
Subject: Re: Coppula's DRACULA
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:10:41 GMT


I personally liked it.  I have never been so entralled by a movie.  I
saw it Saturday and I remained in a trance even as I left the theatre.
True, I haven't read the book yet, but that may be why I enjoyed it so
much.  It was difficult to follow at first, but once the viewer is
familiar with the interworkings of the story, he will be in awe.  The
key is to not have any expectations whatsoever.  Then there is no reason
to be dissapointed.

-- 
"I am not mad, I'm a man fighting for his soul."  Bram Stoker's DRACULA
                      mgamboa@nike.calpoly.edu
                 "It's good to be deliciously evil." -me
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:39:45 EST
From: Jon Leistiko <JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampires-evil?
 <1e0parINNn66@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <92320.152014JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <Bxt0z9.13F@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

Greetings...

     In response to Thanatos' posting, I have several things to say...

  (1) At least we're getting some lively discussion started about something
      resembling an academic topic.  Even though T. flamed a bit, it's good
      to hear someone offer an altermate point of view.

  (2) Ignorance breeds hatred.

  (3) The efforts of White Wolf and Anne Rice _are_not_ the "first attempts"
      to take a cross-cultural view of folklore. Folklorists have been doing
      this for at least a century. One of the best examples of this is a
      multi-volume "encyclopedia" called The_Motiff_Index (which was written
      around 1900) - It's a remarkable catalogue of all elements of folklore,
      myths, and legends _from_around_the_world_. I heartily recommend it to
      any role-players and story writers...

  (4) There _is_ a distinct difference between folklore and fakelore:
      - Folklore is generated "spontaneously" by the people... it's kind of
        a "volkgeist" kind of thing...
      - Fakelore is created deliberately by a select group of people for a
        specific purpose and is often designed to decieve by pretending to
        actually be folklore... Paul Bunyan will _never_ be "folklore" -
        he will _always_ be "fakelore".

  (5) As was pointed out in another responsive article, my purpose was to
      out that people should broaden their horizons and engage in some
      exploratory reading... I find it disheartening to see people eagerly
      consume the modern mythos while neglecting the rich wealth of old
      stories available to them... Too often, people fail to recognize that
      the new stories are built upon the old ones (such as WW's 13 tribes
      derived from religious myth (BTW - the number might be right, but can
      you really take _all_ of the clans seriously?) ).

     That's it. Take Care, All...

                                - Jonathan
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Join our Clan
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:26:52 GMT
Organization: Seattle University

In article <92324.154627SXZ104@psuvm.psu.edu> SXZ104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>   Greetings,
>
>We welcome all with open arms and fangs...
>
>Join our Clan and feel the rage of the Beast within.
>
>PAX !!

Sure...okay.

--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
From: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:14:53 MST
Reply-To: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Distribution: world,local

In article <18NOV92.17391311@vax.clarku.edu>, rgoldberg@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> Why are people so pathetic?  And this is not meant to criticize anyone 
|> personally or to say that FFC's Dracula was the best movie of all time or 
|> anything.  But it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to anticipate this 
|> movie as if it were the Second Coming, and then to say it was the worst piece 
|> of trash ever after seeing it.  Kind of like when it becomes trendy to 
|> criticize trendiness.  Or when people want to look "different" so they pierce 
|> various body parts, dye their hair various colors, and wear MC's with 
|> white-out all over them, so they all end up looking the same!  Which is not to 
|> say that such a look is not appealing, either... it's just that it seems like 
|> it's becoming "cool" to criticize the film, to be like, "Well, I'm a REAL 
|> vampire fanatic, so of course it couldn't live up to MY expectations" kind of 
|> thing.  I happened to adore the movie, some people might not, whatever.  But 
|> I'm sure tyhis bulletin could be put to much better use than WHINING about 
|> it!!!

Based on the fact that many of the critics has supported their
beliefs, some in great detail (and having seen the movie I know they
are correct), failure of the movie goes way beyond just a kind of
wanting to agree with everyone by criticizing it.

Movie sucked.
			- Jeff
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Best Vampire Movies
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:10:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.172342.1@acad.drake.edu> tdl001@acad.drake.edu writes:
>Ok, Ok, Fright Night WAS good, one of the best, but has anyone seen Pale Blood?
>It's one of the best contemporary Vamp movies I've seen.
>
Rented it, saw it, loved it.  GREAT movie, but not for everyone's taste.  It
emulated V:TM just to the right degree, and displayed the vampires as 
intensly tragic figures.  Wonderful tale.  

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...
From: jadair@cs.utexas.edu (John S. Adair)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Date: 20 Nov 1992 12:35:36 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

This will be my final post to this group, for the following 3 reasons:
1. You people are too prolific. I'm glad vampirism hasn't spread as
   rapidly as your posts. :)
2. I'm sick of seeing post after post about _Bloodletting_ by Concrete
   Blonde. Everyone now knows its vampire refs, and besides,
   everyone knows that 'Bela Lugosi's Dead' (or 'Bela La Goose...') is
   the best vamp song ever. :)
3. I'm too lazy to learn how to use my global KILL file, and I refuse
   to read one more post by Eric Buckner, who posts 10 posts (all of them
   stupid) every time he reads the group. ;)

For Austinites:
   Dobie Theater is doing a vamp film festival 11/20-11/26, including:
   Nosferatu (~1924?)
   Dracula (1931) with Bela Lugosi. ("...the children of the night...")
   Horror of Dracula (Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing, I may have the
     title wrong.)
   the something-or-other case of somebody Gray (based on Carmilla, a
     great story by I think Sheridan LeFanu)

There are some insightful people on this group, I hope you stick it out
  (I hope you know how to use your global KILL file to ignore messages
  from Mr. Buckner.) ;)

If some kind soul would email me if they hear any provable news about
  an Anne Rice movie or an Austin/Houston book signing, I'd appreciate it.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Re: Don't move alt.vampyres
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:09:16 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu


In article <LJcguB4w165w@cyberden.uucp>, xorcist@cyberden.uucp writes:
> Gocek.Henr801C@Xerox.COM (The Peacemaker) writes:
> 
> >
> > Geez, alt.vampyres is exactly where it should be.  Don't change it to
> > alt.horror.vampyres.  If you want to make hierarchies, go to rec or comp.
> 
> I kind of agree. Moving alt.vampyres to alt.horror.vampyres turns it into
> some sort of folklore/B-movie sounding topic instead of the sub-culture that
> it pronounces with it being just a.v
> 
	Of course, with all this talk about FFC'sD, that what it has become.
	And yes, sub-culture is the right term.

> Some will balk at the explanation, but when you're around people every week
> with fangs, it's no longer a movie. It's real.
> 
	Either that, or a dentist's hell (or paradise, depending).

	With phrases that needed to be said,
	Ken Lipka
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Re: any info. on vamps
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:24:22 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu


In article <92325.112642U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> In article <92325.011432IO71245@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO71245@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Matt)
> says:
> >
> >I'm looking for information on vampires that
> >anyone might have around. I need it for short
> >shories that I write and i'm sick of all the
> >Rice info. that i have. i'll also take any
> >ideas that you might have for a new breed.
> >i'm trying to develop one.
> >Jamey Stevens
> 
> Greetings.  Ever since Douglas Wojtowicz, the originator of the u16244 postings
> lent me his password to his account, I have been on the computer posting
> messages, first to alt.horror.werewolves to give my personal experiences with
> the subjects of their postings, and at his insistence, today, I write to you
> fine folks.  Allow me to intreoduce myself.  I am Terrence Wilcze.
> 
>[first person description of a breed of vampire deleted]

	Very good and in-depth descriptions; no details lacking.  Good pacing,
nice atmosphere, very well done.  Two things only I wish to say.
	1)  What about religious symbols?
and secondly,
	2)  Oh puh-lease.

Ken Lipka
(if I lay to claim to any supernatural being it will not be a dragon-spawned
vampire, rather it will be to being what spawned said undead)
From: durrant@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Vampire the Masquerade
Keywords: Vampire, RPG's, real life
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:20:14 GMT
Organization: Purdue University


	Jonathon wrote:
		(paraphrased) I get rabid at the thought of people who believe
RPG's are the be all and end all of mythological documentation.  There were
sources written before 1970, and not by companies just out to make a fast buck.

(I'll admit that may not be exactly what he said, but I'm writing from memory and it may not be exact.  Sorry for any inconvienences.)

I play RPG's frequently, and Vampire is the primary one I play at this time.
However, most players of Vampire the Masquerade (myself included) are  
intelligent enough and mature enough to realize that the sourcebooks are not
the be all and end all of vampire lore.  There is a certain amount of creative
license that must be taken by the game designers to create a playable game, and
an equal amount of suspension of disbelief that must be accepted by the players
of that game.  Of course, we are talking about *vampires* here, so suspension
of disbelief is inherent in any discussion that mentions them.

Additionally, I do not fault White Wolf or any game manufacturer for trying to
make money.  They are businesses, and that's what businesses do.  If they were
in the game business just for the sheer joy of bringing enjoyment to the
mirthless masses, they wouldn't last very long.  Sorry, but that's how
capitalism works.

I do recommend that those who rely on White Wolf's source material only should
look up a few good books on the subject for a different viewpoint and more
information.  (A trip to the *library*--how exciting!!!!)  Maybe Jonathon would
recommend some titles for us--I am really interested in what he would suggest.

Most gamers do realize they are source materials, nothing more.  If they don't,
maybe they ought to get a life or put the game away until they are mature enoughto deal with it.

Hope this helps!

Christine
	
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 16 Nov 1992 22:38:31 EST
From: Solipsist at Large <IK20001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Vampires-evil?
 <1e0parINNn66@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <92320.152014JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <Bxt0z9.13F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <92321.143945JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu>


Johnanthan says:


>  (4) There _is_ a distinct difference between folklore and fakelore:
>      - Folklore is generated "spontaneously" by the people... it's kind of
>        a "volkgeist" kind of thing...
>      - Fakelore is created deliberately by a select group of people for a
>        specific purpose and is often designed to decieve by pretending to
>        actually be folklore... Paul Bunyan will _never_ be "folklore" -
>        he will _always_ be "fakelore".

Ridiculous.  Utterly so.  I don't know about your neck of the woods,
but in Maine we tell stories about Paul all the time.  I and everyone
else could care less where they got their start.  Folklore is *legend*,
and whatever its genesis, it grows into something completely different.

VtM, Anne Rice and so forth are *not* Folklore **OR** Fakelore.  They
are fiction.  nothing more, nothing less.  Neither claims to be the
truth (read the inside cover of VtM sometime).  They intend to
entertain, period.

I agree with you that it's silly to take either source as true
mythology or legend.  However, that's a fault of the reader, not
the product.

As a side note -- ALL fiction is meant to make mony, otherwise it
would not be a commercial product.

To sum up -- FOLKlore is a series of legends and stories people tell,
which (being an oral tradition) change in the telling.  This is true
whether the folklore originated in fact, myth, or fiction.
--
Eric Alfred Burns                        "Life is full of decisions
Solipsist at Large                        but you never get to make any."
"It's all in your mind"
IK20001@maine.maine.edu                           --Linus Van Pelt
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry)
Subject: Re: Vampires-evil?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:25:51 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Hadu-Ken said:
>Jonathon just said :
>>> What is the "average" B-P vampire?

> An avg BP vampire is one who isn't abnormal in his/her feeding patterns 

So, what you're saying, is that something that isn't abnormal is average.
Thanks for the circular definition -- do you care to throw in some
quantifying points, or can we just make those up along the way?

>. Simple, eh?

TOO simple.

>
>>>What's this about "hardly ever" killing their victims?
>
>There you are on that mythology crap again. Trust me on this one too, 
>most Bios don't kill their victim unless they are doing it because they are in
>a chaotic rage.

Thanks for the reassurance.
-- 
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - "I have a pullchain in my head." -- RIII
My mind is a jackal.--Richard Darwin // What was the question? --Kate Bush
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: davida@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Austin)
Subject: Re: Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: world, public
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:23:49 GMT


You might try writing to the publisher.  I've heard that "out-of-print" 
books can sometimes be gotten directly from the publisher who might still
have a few copies around.   I tried it with another author and luckily,
the publisher still had a hardcover copy of the book I wanted.  It probably
depends on how long ago the books became "out-of-print".

Good luck.

da