HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rwf0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BOB FISHER)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Lutherans and the word "Catholic"
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:26:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <CHRISTIA%92040123120429@ASUACAD.BITNET>, JEK@NIHCU.BITNET writes:
>If you look at a Lutheran copy of the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene
>Creed, you are likely to find the Church described as "Christian"
>where most copies of the Creed have "Catholic".  But this usage does
>not come about because Luther or his followers rejected either the
>concept of catholicity or the use of the word "Catholic". It has a
>different origin.
>
> Yours,
> James Kiefer
>

James --

If you look at the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship, which *most* Lutheran
churches use these days (at least ELCA Lutheran churches), you'll note that
the creed does use "catholic" -- lowercase, referring to the word's meaning of
"universal" and not to the Church of Rome.

Older book do use "Christian" in the creed, as do books I've seen in some
Presbyterian churches.

Peace --
-- 

===============================================================================
BOB FISHER                                  | (215) 758-4838
Lehigh University Writers' Group            | FAX: (215) 758-4708
436 Brodhead Ave. / Bethlehem, PA 18015     | RWF0@LEHIGH.EDU
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 12:09:47 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 4/17
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

"When we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly ...
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us ... being now justified by His
blood ... when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His
Son ... we are buried with Him by baptism into death ... we have been planted
together in the likeness of His death ... our old man is crucified with Him ...
he that is dead is freed from sin ... we be dead with Christ ... there is
therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 5 - 8
excerpts).

"God commendeth His love toward us ... we also joy in God through our Lord
Jesus Christ by Whom we have now received the atonement" (Romans 5:8,11).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:04:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Salvation & predestination & faith...

Ian responded to my questions on the list, and I posed more questions
 to him personally.  We thought it might interest the list to read an
 excerpt of it:

I>God has given EVERYONE the choice to either accept or reject him right..
I>The confusing thing is that God already knows who is going to reject and
I>who is going to accept him....
I>The Calvanists go off on a wrong tangent (in my opinion) by saying that
I>because God knows who is going to accept him, he goes out and deliberately
I>saves only them..

V>>   So God does call _everyone_ though He knows that only some will
V>>   accept Him?  It's funny somehow isn't it? why God will still call
V>>   some people though He knows they will never come to Him.  Is this
V>>   one of those things that our finite minds will never understand?

I>Hi Vicky, you are very perceptive..

I>Several times in the scriptures we get the message that God wants everyone
I>to be saved - "It is the Fathers will that non should perish"...
I>However he also gives us free will to make the choice on whether or not
I>we will reject him..

I>Yes, I think the issue on God the decision that we will make before we
I>make it is a little out of scope for our minds..

I>God loves us enough to let us make these decisions for ourselves...

I>The bible does not teach this.. John 3:16 says that who ever believes him
T>him shall receive eternal life.... In order to believe we must have faith,
T>there is no faith involved if God makes the decisions for us!!

V>>   But doesn't it say somewhere in the bible (I forget where :-{) that
V>>   even our faith is gift from God?  (I'll try looking up the verse.)
V>>   The way I interpret that verse is that if God didn't give us faith
V>>   to believe in Him, we would never be able to by ourselves.  What's
V>>   your perspective on this?

I>Faith along with most things is a gift from God...
I>Our faith which relates to salvation is to accept the fact that we are dead
I>in our sins and to seek forgivness from God.. It does _not_ take faith
I>to believe in God, "even the demons believe, and tremble".. What takes
I>faith is to live out a holy life for God, to trust and believe God for
I>the good things that he has promised us.. This requires faith, and God
I>gives us the ability to aquire faith.. "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing
I>by the Word of God"... or by the rhema revelation of Gods word to us..


(Ian, Vicky)
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:00:36 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "Safe Sex"

Darryl:
2 things involving this posting.  First, the pregnancy information is simply
wrong.  It is not possible for a pregnancy to occur unless there is a
fertilizable egg present, which does not, contrary to the article, occur
50 percent of the time.

Secondly, the distinction between bad equipment and bad users is irrelevant
if we are discussing (as much of the Ankerberg material is) young people,
people who may not be as careful as they need to be, or people who are not
tremendously skilled at using a condom.  Come on, how often are condoms
put on slowly and/or carefully?  The fact remains that, whether the failure
rate is due to bad usage or bad condoms, condom usage (I will grant you,
as opposed to condoms per se) does fail.  Your source has not yet made a
good case for effectiveness in common usage.  But I'm willing to hear more.
                                                 Love INC,
                                                          ---Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:40:00 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christian rock
              8 Apr 1992 12:39:49 EST from <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>

Ian:

Wait!  Let me defend John.  He _likes_ songs like "Amazing Grace" (MY
personal favorite, by the way), but he is recognizing that modern
Southern gospel singers have changed the way they sing the song so that
the hymn words are entirely lost.  I assure you, John's problem with
Southern gospel comes in when the singers fail to remain true to the
intended meaning of the gospel and the original hymns (like when they
take out references to blood, sin, and wretchedness so that the
audience doesn't have to hear the "downer" parts).  Am I talking out
of turn here, John?
                   Love INC,
                            ---Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:13:37 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Two different questions
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              5, 92 9:13 pm

>Abortion is the willfull act of taking a life.  It cannot be
>     So is hunting, fishing, capital punishment, war, and
>     according to some, contraception.  I think a more
>     specific definition is needed.
>

Abortion is the willfull act of taking a life that belongs to the species
Homo Sapien..

*****************************************************************************
Ian Williams          			Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems         			Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 10:33:10 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: abortion

Lonnie:
  Thank you for the story of Ruth.  Painful truth requires telling before
public policy can be changed.  This is the kind of story there are far
too many of out there.  May God have mercy on our souls for standing by
while these things just happen.  God will bless you for your compassion
and your loyalty.  I hope Ruth is now well.
                                           Love INC,
                                                    ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:49:59 CST
From:         CXKJP%UTXDP.bitnet@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      re:pro-choice
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.

Roy-

   I know many  pro-choice women, and they believe that a fetus
is definatey alive. They (like me) deep down strongly fear that
if abortion is allowed to become illegal, contaception will be
next. It isnt that we want abortions, its just that we want
this to be a private matter.    I'm all in favor of teaching
our children not to chose that option.

Kim
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:50:13 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      for Thursday 16 April 1992
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

FOR HOLY WEEK

Assist us mercifully with thy help,
O Lord God of our salvation,
that we may enter with joy
upon the contemplation of those mighty acts
whereby thou hast given unto us life and immortality,
Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

      FOR THE THURSDAY BEFORE EASTER

      READING: Exodus 12:1-14a
      (Moses instructs the Israelites on how they are to keep the
      Passover forever as the feast of their deliverance.)

      PSALM 78:14-20,23-25
      (When the Israelites were in the wilderness, God gave them
      bread from heaven, and water from the rock.)

      EPISTLE: 1 Corinthians 11:23-32
      (Paul reminds the Corinthians how Christ Himself instituted
      the Eucharist just before He was handed over to suffering
      and death.)

      THE HOLY GOSPEL: John 13:1-15
      (Jesus, at the Last Supper, washes His disciples' feet,
      setting them an example of humility and love.)


Almighty Father,
whose dear Son, on the night before he suffered,
did institute the Sacrament of his Body and Blood:
Mercifully grant that we may thankfully receive the same
in remembrance of him
who in these holy mysteries giveth us a pledge of life eternal,
the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
who now liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit ever,
one God, world without end.
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 12:50:29 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              at Apr 7, 92 10:12 pm

>
>    I have a question:
>    When Adam and Eve sinned, they died a spiritual death.  Was
>    physical death a direct result of the Fall too?  Or were they
>    eventually gonna die anyways?
>
>    In Christ,
>    the list minor
>

Death whether it be Spiritual or Physical is a result of our fallen nature,
and hence of the Sin of Adam and Eve..

Adam and Eve immediately died Spiritually (and hence were cast out of Gods
presence) and much later died phsyically..
I must mention that dying spiritually does not stop them being Eternal
creatures.. All creatures with a Spirit are eternal (God, Angels, Demons,
Humans).
The Spiritual Death is a seperation from God...

ALL MHO


*****************************************************************************
Ian Williams          			Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems         			Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia
From: laperla@byron.u.washington.edu (Juan Perla)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: PRAYER REQUEST
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:42:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Hello,
My wife is a respite care nurse for a 1 yr old child with 
cyctic fibrosis.  Last weekend he came home with us to give his parents
a weekend off.  He was already sick with an ear infection but he took
a turn for the worst on saturday night.  He kept us up all night so we 
took him to emergency and they admitted him with a bad cold.  Please pray
for him and his family ( they are not christians).  I have never seem 
such a happy child inspite of all his problems.

Oh Lord, I hope this gets through.
juan




-- 
Juan Manuel Perla                                    University of Washington
laperla@u.washington.edu             University Computing Services Operations
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:39:00 EST
From:         The Nuzz <V063KC44@UBVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dissertation meeting

Kerry,

>Also, I know it's a long shot, but if ANYONE has heard of any prolife gay
>groups, PLEASE let me know!  I know they exist, I just can't find them!

        Have you tried on the listserv list, GAYNET? Or on the Usenet
group, soc.cult.motss?
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:52:00 -0400
From:         Lora Harris <LHARRIS@UPEI.CA>
Subject:      Canadian national identity

Hi all,

        Evelyn, I beg to differ on this...(don't worry, this is not taking
offence, and I did see the smiley!)

>Of course, that's just English-speaking Canada "which doesn't have a
>national identity."  Quebec has an identity all its own.  :-)
>
>Evelyn Duncan
>(who hopes to go there some day)

        Acadians have an identity all their own. Nova Scotians, and Cape
Bretoners have an identity all thier own ( heavy Scottish influence, more
Gailic speakers and bagpipers than anywhere else outside Scotland). There's no
mistaking a PEIslander for anyone else. There's no question of the Newf's
having an identity of their own -  they only JOINED Canada a bit over fifty
years ago and before that were independant.  The west is very much itself.
BColumbians have an identity like no other in the country.

        The list goes on.  English speaking Canadians have as much and as
distinct cultural identities as the French speaking ones.  What none of us have
is a NATIONAL identity - anything that ties the country _as a whole_ together.
We don't have a COMMON culture, a common language which differs from the US, a
common race, and we no longer can claim loyalty to the Queen, or even to our
political structure (as our government is mucking with it and seems to be
setting up a structure for changing the very structure every decade or so).

        All that aside, someone posted a poem about our bloodfree border -
perhaps you'd like the lyrics to a song my choir performed recently,  IT was
written by Johnny Wayne in the 1980's.   Oops - it's in my locker.  Next post,
I guess (watch this space!)

                                        Lora


Lora Harris, Virology Technician                        |
University of P.E.I, Atlantic Veterinary College      --+--
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, C1A 4P3            |
1-902-566-0845   LHARRIS@UPEI.CA                        |
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:05:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Two different questions

From: Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Someone else wrote:
>Abortion is the willfull act of taking a life.  It cannot be
And I replied:
>     So is hunting, fishing, capital punishment, war, and
>     according to some, contraception.  I think a more
>     specific definition is needed.
>
And Ian contributed with:
Abortion is the willfull act of taking a life that belongs to the species
Homo Sapien..
------------------------------------------------------------------

Which STILL includes capital punishment, war, and, according to
some, contraception.

A LITTLE more specific.

|\ /\ |\ |\ \/ |   Texas         "I awoke in a fever;
|/ )( |( |( /  |..  Christian      the bedclothes were all
 DJohnson@tcucvms    University     soaked in sweat;
 DJohnson@gamma.is.tcu.edu         she said 'you've been having
                                  a nightmare, and it's not
 Never cut what you can untie    over yet!" -- Roger Waters
                                "4:41 A.M. (Sexual Revolution)"
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 10:23:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: rally
              7 Apr 1992 08:53:01 EDT from <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Brenda:
  Good point.  But the other side of it is that the media is part of the
proabortion establishment.  And the other possible numbers come from the
organizers, who also have an agenda.  In the absence of a geometric
calculation from aerial photography, I will continue to consider the
numbers both large and irrelevant.  On both sides.
                                                  Love INC
                                                          ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:39:43 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Parable of the Bicycle

Doug:
What a beautiful story!  Thank you for blessing my day so unexpectedly.
It truly is amazing how much God loves us.
                                          Love INC,
                                                   ---Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 08:18:59 CST
From:         Tom Purcell <GE0110@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      More on "truth" and faith

Dave writes....

 .........stuff deleted.........


>
> OK - how about interpretation of scripture.  Do we take all of
> scripture literally, some of it literally (if so how do we decide what
> is literal and what is not), or none of it literally.  Some of the
> things I am thinking about are the flood, Revelation (and if you don't
> take this literally would you have taken Daniel literally at the
> time?).
>
> Just a question that I am finding increasingly difficult to come to
> terms with,
>
> Your servant in Christ Jesus our Lord,
>
> Dave.
>

I believe you are describing an aspect of what I mean by the inability
to be "certain" about many things.  In the final analysis, one must
do the best on can with such problems and then accept the residual
uncertainty.  One may, perhaps, reduce uncertainty, but it may never be
reduced to zero.

I am amazed at the amount of knowledge that goes into the study of Biblical
truth:  languages, semantics, archaelogy, history, etc.....  with the
results inevitably leading to "scholars" (and others) having differing
views as to both what is said and what it means to us.

How can we know with certainty?  I certainly have not been able to
accomplish such a state.  Those who assert that they have are not
very convincing to me when they describe how it is they are so certain.

Someone suggested to me once that perhaps God deliberately left some
uncertainty in Biblical interpretation, etc., in order that we not be
trapped into worshiping the Book instead of Him.  Perhaps it is so,
but I am not certain of that "truth" either.  In any event, faith is
sufficient for salvation if not for certainty of all biblical
interpretation.

Finally, it has been my experience (perhaps limited), that those who
are "certain" about their religious dogma really are communicating their
strong BELIEF that it is true.  "Certainty" to me does not mean something
quite so subjective.  I am fully convinced of the truth of many of my beliefs
at a subjective level  I cannot demonstrate their certainty to others however.
I have learned to live with the reality of not knowing some things for sure.
It is the best I have been able to do.

One of the things I am convinced is true is my salvation depends on
Him and that I have received it through faith.  I cannot prove it
to anyone else.  Could I be wrong?  Possibly, but I don't
believe that.  I might add that I am much less sure about "Daniel"
and what it all means.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 09:29:00 CDT
From:         MB09@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Great Britain not England

From:         "Jonathan Wheeler" <JFW1@IBM-B.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK>

>>Abortion is allowed in the United States, Canada, Holland, England, Italy,
                                                            -------

>This is just a small point, but the correct name for the country as
>represented in the United Nations is Great Britain or the United Kingdom
>of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  England is one part of Great Britain,
>but by no means all, as those from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will
>often point out :-)

>It is true that in some areas law in Scotland is different from law in the rest
>of Great Britain, but (as far as I am aware) this does not apply to the
>question of abortion.
>
>Yours sincerely
>
>Jonathan Wheeler

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for clarifying the fact about Great Britian.  Since I lived in England
for three years, I knew about this already.  I was only sharing information
from my source and it didn't say G.B.  It said England and nothing about
Scottland or Wales, so I didn't include that in the information.  It did say
that in Ireland abortion is illegal.  So I don't know if the authors meant
Great Britain instead of England or not.

Michelle
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:36:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Pro Choice Rally in DC.

<      Actually, not to prolong the discussion of abortion, but
<   does anyone know if the 500,000 who were at the pro-choice rally
<   in DC is accurate?
<
<      Or is it just DC using the media to show their alignment on
<   this issue?

When there was a march over Webster several years ago, the media reported
300,000 while NOW had documented 600,000 marchers.  (NOW had marchers sign in.)
My general experrience is that the media reports the numbers that the polic
estimate, and the police underestimate by as little as a factor of 2 (as above)
to as much as ten (as in a Gay Rights demonstration several years ago, when
they said 75,000 and we counted over 750,000.)

Dan the veteran marcher
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:12:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Spiritual and physical death

    I have a question:
    When Adam and Eve sinned, they died a spiritual death.  Was
    physical death a direct result of the Fall too?  Or were they
    eventually gonna die anyways?

    In Christ,
    the list minor
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia