HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Statheads and park effects
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:19:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.141105.22778@news.columbia.edu> hpw@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry P Warren) writes:

>> On the other hand, one can note that Wade Boggs has *never* played
>> spectacularly well outside of Fenway: his stats have been inflated
>> by the fact that he would consistently (until this year) hit .380
>> in Boston, but 75 points below that with half as many XBH outside
>> of Fenway. 

>How many other players have hit .380 in Fenway Park? How many players
>have hit .300+ on the road over the last seven or eight seasons? If
>Boggs weren't a great hitter, I don't think that he would be able to
>"inflate" his statistics so much.

Besides the obvious flaw of measuring someone's hitting by their batting
average, this statement has no point, since it is attacking a straw man.

No one said Wade Boggs didn't have talent.  What they said was that 
Boggs' stats are inflated by Fenway.  When he *doesn't* get to play in
Fenway 81 times a year, his stats will go down. 

The fact that Boggs is (was) a great hitter is irrelevant.  "Great" is
kind of subjective, and certainly not very quantifiable.  

We know what Boggs actually *did.*  

As an answer to your question, here are the people I noted who hit .300
on the road over the last few years.

Boggs, road, 1984-1991:  .306

Tony Gwynn, road, 1984-1991:  .325
Hal Morris, road, 1988-1991: .322
Don Mattingly, road, 1984-1991: .315
Rafael Palmeiro, road, 1986-1991: .307

Wally Joyner, road, 1986-1991: .303
Pedro Guerrero, road, 1984-1991: .303
Tim Raines, road, 1984-1991: .302
Mike Greenwell, road, 1985-1991: .301
Paul Molitor, road, 1984-1991: .301

The fact that Boggs hits so well in Fenway, better than just about
anyone else, I'm sure, since he takes advantage of the wall better than
anyone else, is nice.  But it doesn't change the fact that *outside* of
Fenway he has merely been good, not great at all.  

And it's awfully unlikely that this is going to change all of the
sudden.  Not at the age of 35.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men,rec.sport.football.pro
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing CenterCenter
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:53:07 GMT

Yeah, I agree with Sherry, the after-the-fact approach of regulating locker
room access seemed entirely a sex-based thing - prima facie discrimination.

My general opinion is *no* reporter belongs in a locker room. It may be
harder to get stories that way, but the whole idea of reporters amidst the
showers and jock itch powder is weird. Imagine a video surveillance camera
installed on the wall of *your* locker room, eh?  

They won't let the nude dude go to classes in Berkeley because that's
supposed to offend community standards, but it's OK to interview athletes
in a towel on TV. Chiah. Right.

- matt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Braves land Maddox !!
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:12:16 GMT

In article <78758@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler) writes:
>The farm system was reviewed and changed after the GM change.  The Braves
>had either the first or second largest number of teams in the ML.  The Braves
>definitely did away with a Rookie league team and an A level team (I think
>they may have done away with one more team as well).  They moved the AA
>team to Macon and reorganized the management of the scouts.

The Braves only got rid of a mid-level A team, Burlington in the Midwest
League.  The Midwest League is comparable in level to the South Atlantic
League, where the Braves already had a team in Sumter.  The Burlington
affiliation had been added in 1988.

In 1992, the Braves had a AAA team in Richmond (International League) , a
AA team in Greenville (Southern League), a high A team in Durham (Carolina
League), mid A in Macon (SAL -here's the move to Macon, from Sumter), a
Rookie club in Pulaski (Appalachian League), another Rookie club in Idaho
Falls (Pioneer League), and a third Rookie club in West Palm Beach (Gulf
Coast League).  Seven farm clubs is still above average; the Braves had
eight from 1988-1991, 7 from 1986-1987, and 6 in 1985, which is the average
number of farm clubs.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 26 Dec 92 19:34:27 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

Okay, yes I am new to this network and yes I learned a few things in my
somewhat overzealous defense of Wallach.  Maybe I had I few too many Xmas
brews before I got on this computer last night.  

However, with all due respect to those of you with the Harvard-sized stat
book libraries out there, I do believe that there are intangibles, such as
leadership, that are not accounted for in the statistics that you and I both
collect.  The lack thereof was among the several reasons cited for the White
Sox's poorer than expected performance last year.  That was the point that I
was trying to get across.
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 26 Dec 92 14:17:21 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

i'm not an expos fan.  i don't care muchly about them, so saying that...
>Hey Expos fans, lets be realistic.  The loss of Wallach and Owen leaves us
>with the prospect of a virtually all-rookie infield.  The only real 
so? it's a lot better than having an "over the hill, living on their
 past reputation" infield...

>exception is Deshields, who is far from a Gold Glove.  The loss of Owen and 
>Wallach runs the risk of running up Dodger-like error totals in the infield.
>Don't forget -- the Expos had a better team batting average and (I think) 
>team ERA than the Pirates in '92.  What vaulted Pittsburgh ahead in the last
>two years has been stellar defense.

you haven't been on this group long, have you?  most of the people here believe
 (not blindly, but as a good measuring stick) that errors are not the best
 way to measure defense, and batting average is not the best way to 
 measure offense.  on offense, the object is to score runs - and the
 two best ways to measure that are on base average (how OFTEN you get on 
 base) and slugging percentage (how FAR you get when you get on base).
 on defense, you want to see how much area a guy covers, and make sure
 he doesn't do anything stupid withthe ball.  range factor is a good start
 to this (how many putouts+assists did he get in the innings he played?)
 and something called defensive average, which i can't explain as well, 
 is even better. anyhow, last year, pittsburgh had 45 more runs scored
 (most in the league), and only allowed 14 more *runs* (not earned runs).
 deshields was awful defensively, cordero (in limited time) was as well.
 what vaulted pittsburgh ahead was a better offense.  

>Also, Wallach's offense should not be written off.  His '92 BA wasn't much
>worse than Deshields '91 BA.  Delino came back and so could Tim, despite his
>age.  
well, the thing is - when you're less than 26, your stats are SUPPOSED
 to get better.  when you're on the other side of 30, your stats are
 supposed to get *worse*.  and, wallach's on base was 40 points worse
 than deshields, and he had less power. 

>Hey baseballophiles, still looking for more info on Tim Spehr and Tim Barker.
>Anyone see them in minor league games?
no, i havent, but it doesn't matter (in this case) much. spehr in 400
 at bats will hit about 240 with 15 homers, 340 on base, and 400 slugging.
 i've heard that his arm is supposed to be good.  barker?  he's
 going to sit on the bench, if not at AAA. his offense is atrocious.
 
-bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Best playes of All Time
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:36:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.065816.12361@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>I dunno; Sandberg is looking better and better.  Now that he's started
>to walk consistently, finally, he's becoming awfully good.  Yes, his
>stats are inflated by Wrigley, but he still looks good.

Talk to me after we've seen his decline.  I'm not saying he won't be in
that company after then, but I don't think it's reasonable to put him in
that company yet.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Jeff Russell: Man without a team?
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:35:35 GMT

Any news on the whereabouts of Jeff Russell, the former Texas closer and
token Oakland A?  I would think that a pitcher who is a proven
closer with two straight 30+ save seasons under his belt, and who 
has an under 2.00-ERA last year would be signed by someone by now?

Does anyone know if he is talking with any teams right now?
If not....is there any reason why?


--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

NOTICE:  I lose this account in a few days, so *please* direct all replies
to my new address: --->>   cubsfan@oread.cc.ukans.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
From: v_siede@pavo.concordia.ca (KALDIS, BILL)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:59:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec25.193739.29847@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes...
>In article <1992Dec25.165929.16338@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian SPENCER) writes:
>>
>Wallach is a 10-and-5 player, which means he had to agree to the
>trade, I think...which shows you what a classy person he is...since
>the Expos chances in the near future are probably better than the
>Dodgers chances.   Wallach allowed the Expos to do the right thing
>for the Expos, even though it may not have been the absolute best
>thing for Tim Wallach.

    Although I'm glad to see him go (he really has become worse than a 
replacement-level 3B offensively), I also think he's a classy individual.
He agreed to allow the Expos to leave him off their 15-man protected 
list for the Expansion draft. (As a 10 and 5 man, he could have forced the 
Expos to protect him - I think the Expos agreed to buy his Montreal home in 
return)  Also, according to the Montreal Gazette, in order to facilitate 
the deal with Dodgers, he agreed to scrap the option year of his current 
contract, 1995 - would have paid him $3.5 million if he played in 140 games 
in any of the two preceding seasons, 1993 & 1994.  This is pretty amazing 
in this day and age of the greedy, selfish owners and players.

Bill Kaldis
Concordia University
From: gt9911a@prism.gatech.EDU (THE CYNIC)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sierra with A's: 5 yrs/$30MM
Date: 24 Dec 92 16:08:10 GMT
Organization: Somewhere near nowhere

In article <4200367@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>Come now, do you really believe that Canseco could have been kept for less.
>What with the contracts Bonds and Puckett got (and the one McGwire is likely
>to get) it would have been in character for Canseco to whine to Sandy about
>renegotiating the remainder of the current contract.  If Sandy goes along
>with it then Jose gets more $ than Sierra.  If Sandy refuses then the A's

I remember his sunday night talk in ESPN. When asked whether he would like to
renegotiate his contract any time. Jose replied that he made a pact with A's
at the time of signing the contract and he would not renegotiate his contract
eventhough others were getting more than him. Agreed his past antics have
been different, but at the same time let us not presume too many things about
a player. I am not a fan of Jose nor am I a fan of A's. I am an avid Braves
fan. 
--
Sundar Vaidyaraman          School of Chemical Engg.        Georgia Tech
        
      Sometimes a smile can deceive the one who has made you the promises
         Suddenly you can't believe the truth only leaves you cold
      Sometimes the answers you fear are there on the face in the mirror
        Something the world needs to hear, but no one is even listening
              Power it takes power to back up things you say.
           Fortune can wear a disguise and Pride is a grand illusion 
                                                                 -KANSAS 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Indians (was: Re: My picks, AL/NL East)
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:28:23 GMT

In article <1h4ov4INN3bb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven 'Mother'F. Hubbard) writes:
>   And Whiten plays where?  Howard and Hill simply don't have the arms to play 
>right field.  Have you seen Hill play at all?  He's terrible.  He misjudges
>fly balls and makes lollipop throws back to the infield.  Howard misjudges his
>share as well, but Mike Hargrove maintains that Howard's the best defensive
>OF on the team.  Even if that's true, Howard should NEVER bat second.  I
>think his OBP was .303 last year.  Whiten has his share of problems too.  He
>seems to be a little overconfident in his arm, and he tends to neglect his
>cutoff man.  Even still, he's a decent right fielder, and he's only 25.  The
>Tribe should give him at least one more year to see if he can improve his
>offensive skills.

  Agreed. Although he hasn't put it all together yet, Whiten *did* post a 
.347 OBP last year and slugged .400+ for Cleveland the previous year. He
improved his plate discipline a great deal last year, walking 72 times. His
STATS projection for 1993 is .271/.339/.401, and if he keeps walking like he
did last year, he's likely to post a pretty nice OBP. He's probably not going
to be the second coming of Clemente, but he's better offensively than just
about all of the Indians' options and has a *cannon* for an arm. Best OF arm
I've seen since Barfield. The word 'howitzer' comes to mind. I'd like to see 
him signed cheaply and playing in the Jays' RF spot in place of, oh, Joe
Carter maybe. IMHO, he's Cleveland's most valuable outfielder in terms of
defense and his bat isn't too bad. Why wouldn't you play him, especially when
it looks like he's learned the value of a walk?  

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch             kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu 
Toronto Blue Jays - 1992 World Champions!      New .. quotes out of context!
".. you'd probably be teaching me how to get it up .."  - Jason Abner Miller 
".. Italian for suppository..which was genuinely hard for me .." - R. Lustig
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Statheads and park effects
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:40:40 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Dec21.141105.22778@news.columbia.edu> hpw@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry P Warren) writes:
>
>> On the other hand, one can note that Wade Boggs has *never* played
>> spectacularly well outside of Fenway: his stats have been inflated
>> by the fact that he would consistently (until this year) hit .380
>> in Boston, but 75 points below that with half as many XBH outside
>> of Fenway. 
>
>How many other players have hit .380 in Fenway Park? How many players
>have hit .300+ on the road over the last seven or eight seasons? If
>Boggs weren't a great hitter, I don't think that he would be able to
>"inflate" his statistics so much.

Oh, I don't doubt that he's a great hitter.  (That should read "he was a
great hitter.")  And he should be given full credit for doing as well in
Fenway as he did -- he certainly took advantage of it.  But he's only going
to get to play in Fenway six or seven times instead of 81 times, and it's
definitely going to affect his statistics.  

In answer to your question, Tony Gwynn hit 20 points higher on the road
than Boggs did from 1984-91.  (Boggs more than made up for it because of
his willingness to walk, which makes him an extraordinarily *good* .260
hitter without power now, but let's just take the batting average issue.)
The infamous Don Mattingly hit .315 outside of Yankee Stadium from 1984-91.

Mark McGwire's a good example of someone who has been seriously *hurt* by
his park -- the average AL hitter hits 2.5% more HR at home, but McGwire,
from 1986-91, has hit 27% *fewer* HR at home.  He's consistently hit 20-30
points better on the road BA.  I think it's fair to say that playing in
Oakland has cost him 4-5 HR a season as compared to an average park, and
about ten HR a year as compared to an Atlanta.  As I've said before, if I
were Mark McGwire's agent, I'd give a blank one-year contract to Schuerholz,
hit 65 HR against the expansion-team NL from the Launching Pad, and then
settle for whoever was willing to give him a $50 million, five year contract.
 
I don't see a 290/430/700 season being an unreasonable estimate for a McGwire
in 1993 Atlanta, assuming no serious injury (which is probably why McGwire 
would never take the risk I just suggested for him -- a shame.)   
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: sullis@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball.college
Subject: test; please ignore
Date: 2 Jan 1993 10:28:07 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Test to rec-sport-baseball-college@cs.utexas.edu
Sorry.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nelson@sentinel.enet.dec.com (Nelson Orengo - Tampa)
Subject: Re: Best playes of All Time
Reply-To: nelson@gatr2.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Tampa FL
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:59:28 GMT


>Here's my team:
>
>C Gaby Harnett

   I agree with some of the earlier comments that Harnett is not the
best choice here.
   My vote goes for Johnny Bench as the best ever for this position.

>1B Lou Gehrig
>2B Rogers Hornsby
>SS Honus Wagner
>3B Mike Schmidt
>OF Ty Cobb

   Willie Mays beats Ty Cobb for this spot.

>OF Ted Williams
>OF Babe Ruth
>
>The bench:
>C Bill Dickey

   I would put Mickey Cochrane ahead of Dickey.
>1B Hank Greenberg
>1B Jimmie Fox
>2B Jackie Robinson
>2B Rod Carew

    Carew certainly deserves to be here, but also Eddie Collins and
Charlie Gehringer.

   No other SS on the bench? Ernie Banks gets my vote as a substitute
shortstop (he also
   played 1B the second half of his career, but his SS numbers were
awesome).

>3B George Brett

   Eddie Mathews, maybe.

>OF Joe DiMaggio
>OF Mickey Mantle
>OF Willie Mays

    As I said before, Mays should start over Ty Cobb.

>OF Hank Aaron

    A lot of great OFs have been mentioned as deserving to be added, but
let's not
    forget Roberto Clemente. Mel Ott is another forgotten name, although
a lot of
    the players mentioned are better than Ott.

>
>The Staff:
>SP Sandy Koufax
>SP Bob Feller
>SP Rube Wadell

    Lefty Grove should be on this list instead of Rube Wadell! In fact,
I think even
    Steve Carlton is a better choice than Wadell.

>SP Nolan Ryan
>SP Walter Johnson

    Does Cy Young deserve consideration?  Satchel Paige is hampered by
lack of a significant
    "Major League" career, but if he was as good as people say he was,
then he deserves to
    be at the top of this list.

>RP Dennis Eckersly
>RP Rich Gossage

    Yeah, Rollie Fingers could be here instead of Gossage, but it's
pretty close. Also,
    Dick Radatz had some awesome seasons as a power reliever.

Regards,
Nelson

--

+=======================================================================
==========+
Nelson Orengo			| "Puerto Rico, Rum and coke, Salsa, the beach..."
Digital Equipment Corporation	| 
Tampa, Fl			|
(813)286-6747			| nelson@gatr2.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: Holiday Gift 
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:03:38 GMT

As a holiday gift to MLB and especially Bud Selig, I hereby 
offer to spend my sabbatical next year as the next commissioner of MLB. 

-- 
 Regards,
  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  only $30K plus expenses and I'm yours, Buddy Boy
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Looking for stat Baseball Game
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:18:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Organization: University of Louisville

Tony Larussa basebalworks much better with a keypad than a joystick.  
One limber hand will do the work nicely, while the jostick works clumsily.

The individual stats on Larussa can fluctrom the norm, but this is life,
I guess.  There are certain players, though, that ALWAYS seem to worse, or 
better, than their stats indicate.  Willie McCovey, for example, always seems
to bat around .225.  Juan Marichal, on the other hand, always has a sub-1.00
ERA on my system. 

Despite these flaws, Larussa is still the best stat computer game that I have
played.        
                  Anyone else? 
                                          Patrick Tierney
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mlsa@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Best playes of All Time
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:33:39 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <BzKEqI.73u@unix.amherst.edu>, ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SO
KOL) writes:
>So that we all don't get bored waiting for spring training to start, I
>propose starting best of All Time lists to keep some sort of baseball
>discussion going.
>
>Here's my team:
>
Just for the sake of argument I'd like to make a few extra suggestion's slash
additions, not intended as a flame to the original poster.  PS don't send
email flames to me I am leaving school today.

>C Gaby Harnett
Campenella, Fisk, Berra
>1B Lou Gehrig
Eddie Murray *LOU IS BETTER*
>2B Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
>SS Honus Wagner
Cal Ripken JR.
>3B Mike Schmidt
Wade Boggs, Brooks Robinson
>OF Ty Cobb
Yaztremski
>OF Ted Williams
Frank Robinson
>OF Babe Ruth
>
>The Staff:
>SP Sandy Koufax
Satchel Paige
>SP Bob Feller
Jim Palmer
>SP Rube Wadell
Rocket Clemens
>SP Nolan Ryan
Vida Blue
>SP Walter Johnson
Luis Tiant
>RP Dennis Eckersly
Jeff Reardon
>RP Rich Gossage
Greg Olsen (excluding 92 when he stank)

>
>So what do you all think of this
>
-- 
my name is mike and i'm a .sig-a-holic, i have been virtually .sig free for
ten days now, my life is so much clearer, i pledge to do my best to never
have a long .sig again.  i don't need one because i'm good enough, i'm smart
enough and god darnit, people like me.  ob info: mlsa@lehigh.edu, mike
sherman phone# 758-0207 disclaimer, we don't neeeed no steeenking disclaimer.