HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 4 Oct 92 20:09:53
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
	<43463@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Oct2.170457.14142@mlb.semi.harris.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp11.bbn.com
In-reply-to: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com's message of 2 Oct 92 17:04:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.170457.14142@mlb.semi.harris.com> mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
Path: news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!caesun6!mvm
   From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
   Newsgroups: rec.running
   Date: 2 Oct 92 17:04:57 GMT
   References: <52540002@hpscit.sc.hp.com> <1992Sep30.171111.20505@mlb.semi.harris.com> <43463@ogicse.ogi.edu>
   Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com
   Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
   Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL
   Lines: 35
   Nntp-Posting-Host: su3f.ess.harris.com

   milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl) writes:
   >mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:
   >>
   >>A long run produces cumulative muscle damage that takes about 2 months to 
   >>heal.  However, the adaptation that results is also quite long-lasting. 
   >>I do my last long run 2 months before the marathon without any loss of
   >>conditioning.
   >>
   >I disagree.  You CAN train yourself to recover much faster. I routinely
   >run marathon distances or greater without muscle damage that takes
   >more than a day or two, at most a week, to recover from.  I have
   >run 20 mile runs a week after a 50 mile trail race.  And I am not alone
   >many ultramarathoners do the same.  Its all a matter of training, with
   >the key being to TRAIN not _TRASH_ yourself.

   I also recover within a few days after a marathon.  Soreness in the quads
   is muscle damage, which takes about 2 days to heal.  (This is why we 
   alternate hard/easy days).

   The cumulative damage I was talking about is to the tendons.  If you 
   doubled your mileage, it would probably take about 2 months to produce 
   some kind of overuse injury.  Then, if you stopped running, it would 
   take about 2 months to heal.  Or if you cut back to 1/2 of your 
   original mileage, it would take 4 months to heal.


What I find hard to believe about this is all those runners who run
more than 150+ miles a week while training for marathons and don't
have tendon problems.

regards,
fletcher
--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Saucony outlet in Maine?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:23:31 GMT


Aloha net runners!
Being that I'm out here in the boonies, I am curious--do any of you
know if Hyde Industries or Saucony have outlet or warehouse stores,
perhaps by their manufacturing plant in Maine? The closest I'd get to
it is New Orleans this Christmas (pretty far, but gggggreat
food--which means I better take my running shoes with me!), but if I
knew they had such a store I may include it in my itinerary for one of
my mainland trips. Thanks mucho--or as they say here, mahalo! :)
--
A. Lani Teshima (teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu)       o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Student, UH School of Library & Information Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
A small mind is easily filled with faith.                 \=^-| |____| | 
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                        \_}B   \_}B
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: frazier@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Gregory Frazier)
Subject: Diagnosing my runnig style (was Re: Desperately Seeking Shoes)
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 18:10:55 GMT

Hello!
	I am an occasional runner, never competitive.  I've
been scoping this newsgroup for a while, hoping to get tips
for my next shoe purchase.  It seems likely that what I want
is a "franchise" shoe.  However, there have been some comments
about people with particular strides wanting different shoes to
avoid injury.  My own injuries have been fairly rare and mild,
but... can somebody provide a brief primer on what different
strides are and how one diagnoses one's own stride?

--
"They thought to use and shame me but I win out by nature, because a true
freak cannot be made.  A true freak must be born." - Geek Love

Greg Frazier	frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU	!{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier
From: LKim%StrEng%SwRI06@D26VS046A.CCF.SWRI.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: I hate orthotics!
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:03:06 GMT


	I need emotional support.  My orthotics are failing me.  Since 1990, 
when orthotics were first prescribed for me, I've been through two 
podiatrists, one physical therapist and three orthotics.  All without relief. 
 I still feel like I'm running on boards.

	Does anyone here run with othotics?  I'd appreciate some advice and 
tips on getting acclimated to these darn things.  Thanks.

		  	Louis Kim
			Southwest Research Institute
			lkim@swri.edu

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Proper Stretching before running?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:16:04 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Sep30.194817.122887@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>I've recently heard from an instructor at the health club that
>I go to that certain stretches are no longer considered good for you.
>
>Specifically, he named the "Hurler's Stretch".    The "Hurler's
>Stretch" as he described it is the one where one leg is bent at the
>knee while sitting on the ground and the opposite leg is stretched.
>
>Is it true that this is not good for the knee and should be avoided?
>Also, what other stretching exercises are no longer considered good 
>for you?  (This reminds of the days when Sunshine, Red Meat, and 
>Milk were considered good for you.)   

    According to the head trainer here, the hurdler's strecth has been
modified to alleviate twisting of the knee on the non-stretching leg.  All
you do is rest the knee on the floor, bend the knee so that your lower leg
goes toward your stretching knee, and rest the foot against that knee.
It's actually pretty similar to the hurdler's stretch, except that the knee
is bent the other way.  Hope this description is clear.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: Proper Stretching before running?
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:42:11 GMT

It is the "Hurdler's" stretch, so named because it is essentially the
leg position when hurdling.  It does put stress on the knee, and should
be avoided like the plague.  The variation that is effective and safe
is to bend the knee so that the inside of the foot is UP, and the sole
of said foot rests against the inside of the thigh of the other leg.
From: mhespenheide@pomona.claremont.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Looking for Shoes
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:14:18 GMT
Organization: Pomona College

I'm looking for advice on my next pair of training shoes.  I'd be greatly
obliged to anyone who can point me in the right direction, so here goes:
	About myself first:  I'm 19 and have been running as a form of
cross-training for about three to four years.  This fall is my second season
of collegiate cross-country racing and really about eight months into regular
running training.  I'm just beginning to touch six-minute pace on intervals
and run the 8-k (4.8 mi.) in 33:38.  I pronate mildly, but more so when
pushing off on the ball of the foot through the toes than on heelstrike.
	My previous shoes:  Asics gel-Saga.  A nice, neutral shoe.  Nothing
glaringly flawed about it, but no tremendous strengths either.
	My current shoes:  Asics Gel-Lyte III's.  A very nice shoe.  I 
like the feel of the shoe and the light weight.  Could use a bit more
cushioning, a bit more arch support, and a bit more forefoot control.  
Also:  Nike Air Pegasus.  Ok, but not as nice as the Asics.  Good cushioning, 
but a little squishy.  Good arch support.  Fair forefoot control.  My basic
gripe with the Nike's is that they simply don't _feel_ as fast as the Asics;
the Asics are just more lively.
	What I'm looking for:  A lightweight (10 oz?) training shoe durable
enough to train through both a cross-country season and a track season with
some forefoot control, but not so much they feel like hiking boots.
					Thanks for your help,
					Mark Hespenheide
__
mhespenheide@pomona.claremont.edu
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Qualifying Time for Boston
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:26:07 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct6.095436.8531@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell,G2,3123,homephone) writes:
> > Boston Marathon
> > ==================
> > The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots day (3rd monday in April).

	Which will be April 19, 1993



> 
> How long will a qualifying time last for, ie if someone ran a 3.01 marathon in
> 1986 will that qualify him for next years Boston?

	I just called the BAA on this one. You must run your qualifying time
between Jan 1, 1992 (emphasis on TWO) and March 8th 1993 (The date the BAA must
receive your entry form).
                   

> Also if you run 3.12 aged 34
> will you qualify for next years Boston if you turn 35 before April?

	Yes!

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
From: jf7e@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Joel  Furtek)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Proper Stretching before running?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:42:05 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

From a native of the beautifuk Mid-Mohawk Valley of New York:

The problem with the hurdler's stretch, as I understand it, is
in the knee which is folded back behind the torso.  If you do a
modified hurdler, or "figure 4" stretch, you reduce this risk.
Just fold you leg in front of you and extend the other.  Then
stretch toward the foot as always.  Be sure that the knee of
the extended leg is just slightly bent.

P.S. I'm just a P.E. grad student, not a doctor....
From: tom@runner.GSFC.NASA.Gov (Tom Winkert)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Back Issues of Running Times Wanted
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:43:19 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA




I would like to buy the April,1986 issue of Running Times from any Pack
Rat who might have it.  I would be interested if anyone knows where I 
might find back issues of Running Times.



				Thanks,
				Tom Winkert
				tom@runner.gsfc.nasa.gov
				(301)595-8965
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: What are "franchise" shoes?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:50:18 GMT

I was reading the 1992 Fall Shoe Buyers' Guide in the October issue of
Runner's World, and I happened to come across something I didn't quite
understand.

On page 74 where they feature the new Saucony Bangor model, they said
this in their evaluation:
	Saucony is attempting to develop its own reasonably priced
	"franchise" shoe, similar to the Asics Saga and Nike Icarus...
So what the heck is a "franchise" shoe? Does that mean that the Foot
Locker will carry it? Does it mean that the K-Marts and Wal-Marts will
carry it? I've scratched myself on this one, and don't know what it
means.

Your opinions will be highly regarded in response to this post! :)

Aloha--

--
A. Lani Teshima (teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu)       o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Student, UH School of Library & Information Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
A small mind is easily filled with faith.                 \=^-| |____| | 
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                        \_}B   \_}B
Xref: sparky rec.running:2648 misc.fitness:7568
From: bledbett@fish.prime.com (Bruce Ledbetter)
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness
Subject: Boston Swim Clinic
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:57:39 GMT
Reply-To: bledbett@fish.prime.com (Bruce Ledbetter)
Distribution: ma
Organization: Prime Computervision, Bedford MA



                                    MASTERS
                                  TRIATHELETES
                                FITNESS SWIMMERS

                                  SWIM CLINIC

                            SATURDAY OCTOBER 3, 1992
                                 7:30 - 1:00 PM

                                    MIT POOL

Coaches include many of New England's successful college swim coaches:
        - John Benedick - MIT Head Swimming and Water Polo Coach
        - Bonnie Dix - Wellesley College
        - Avery Faigenbaum - Fitness Director, Tennis & Raquet Club
        - Paul Grace - MIT Head Athletic Trainer
        - Bella Marlow - Wheaton College Head Swimming Coach
        - Ann McDermott - Simmons College 

        For More Info, Call
        John Benedick at MIT (617) 253-4490
                            bledbett@funk.prime.com        
                                  -----------
                                    -------
                                       V
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: p0035c@email.mot.com (Deena Snell)
Subject: Qualifying Time for Boston
Organization: Motorola
Distribution: rec.running
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:47:09 GMT

Does anyone know what the qualifying times for the Boston Marathon are for
a female, age 24 and a male, age 36 or where you can get a copy of what 
the qualifying times are?
From: kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:49:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Mail-order specialist for running gear ?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.running

/ hpcc01:rec.running / P.Jennings@frcl.bull.fr (Philip Jennings) / 11:55 pm  Sep 21, 1992 /
Does anyone know the phone number of the following mail order
warehouse (which apparently specialises in running shoes and clothes) :

Runner's Supply, 8813 Production Avenue, San Diego, CA ?

Alternatively, details of anything similar which you can recommend would
be welcome. Apologies if this isn't really the right group for this sort
of posting.

-- 
Philip JENNINGS		<P.Jennings@frcl.bull.fr>
----------

If I recall that company went out of business a few years ago.
The only one left is Road Runner Sports (in SD anyway).  I
had ordered something from Runner's Supply and returned it
just before the phones were disconnected.  I luckly got my 
money back but it was close.  I think I made it with about
a week to spare.

As far as phone numbers you can always try 800 directory Asst.
at 1-800-555-1212.  They have all of the numbers and most
business of any size have some sort of 800 number.

John K.
From: whare@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Weights and Running?
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:27:21 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


	Why does it seem that runners past the 400 meter mark
have really weak upper bodies? I know there is that weight to 
power type ratio but I've read so many articles on world class
runners who don't weight train. One guy even said the only way 
to run faster is to run more. Peeves me a lot.

			Stephen, brother of Antony, Hare.
	This by no means represents the opinions of my 
	employer. Wait a second, I'm only fourteen, I'm
	not employed! I'm free.

	P.S. Just a note, Carl Lewis does NO weight
	training!!-- 
----                               
                                                  ...Richard*GRAPHIC*Design...
                                                  ...Antony R Hare............ 
                                                  ...President................
                                                  ...whare@ac.dal.ca..........
                                                  ...image is almost..........
                                                  .......everything...........
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: What's a good result in Cooper's test ?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:24:31 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University



	What is Cooper's test?  It sounds like "run as far as
you can in 12:00 minutes".  Is this correct.  I think I could manage
about 3200 meters, and friends of mine could do about 3600+.
Before I started running, I'll bet I couldn't have done 2300.

By the way, I'll run the Columbus marathon this sunday.  I'll try to
post results.

J.P. Papai
From: jf7e@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Joel  Furtek)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Mail-order specialist for running gear ?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:27:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Sep30.182724.16137
Organization: University of Virginia

Road Runner Sports is going strong in San Diego.  Phone number
is 1-800-551-5558.  They're very helpful over the phone and
have a solid return policy.  Nothing but good comments.
From: fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:23:42 GMT
	<43463@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Oct2.170457.14142@mlb.semi.harris.com>
	<FKITTRED.92Oct4200953@spchp11.BBN.COM>
	<1992Oct5.130939.9795@mlb.semi.harris.com>
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., 10 Molton Street, Cambridge, MA
	02138
NNTP-Posting-Host: spchp11.bbn.com
In-reply-to: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com's message of Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:09:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.130939.9795@mlb.semi.harris.com> mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:

   Newsgroups: rec.running
Path: news.bbn.com!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!caesun6!mvm
   From: mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
   References: <52540002@hpscit.sc.hp.com> <1992Sep30.171111.20505@mlb.semi.harris.com> <43463@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Oct2.170457.14142@mlb.semi.harris.com> <FKITTRED.92Oct4200953@spchp11.BBN.COM>
   Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:09:39 GMT
   Nntp-Posting-Host: su3f.ess.harris.com
   Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
   Organization: Engineering Productivity Group, Harris Corp., Melbourne, FL
   Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com
   Lines: 27

   fkittred@spchp11.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
   >
   >What I find hard to believe about this is all those runners who run
   >more than 150+ miles a week while training for marathons and don't
   >have tendon problems.

   You mean like John Campbell, who ran Boston in 2:11:04 at age 40 and
   trained 180 miles/week, mostly at a 5:10-5:20 pace?  But how many people
   do you really know that can train like that?  A world class runner has to,
   but how many of us can be world class runners?

I am having real difficulty following your model for human physiology.
Previously you stated that one sustained tendon damage during a run of
20 miles or more and the body needed weeks to recover.  I gave proof
by contradiction that this is not true, e.g. there are many people who
run more than 20 miles at a time several times a week. Now you seem to
be saying that the damage is conditional, some people sustain it
others do not.  Do you know what the criteria are for sustaining
tendon damage?  Genetic predisposition?  Level of conditioning?
Environmental factors?

curiously yours,
fletcher


--
/* Fletcher Kittredge
 * BBN Software Products
 * 150 CambridgePark Dr,  Cambridge, MA. 02140
 * 617-USE-FINK  /  fkittred@bbn.com  /  fkittred@das.harvard.edu
 */
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: Re: Corn on toe
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:35:33 GMT

In article <25750@oasys.dt.navy.mil> jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris) writes:
>I, too, developed a corn which has been persistent, despite removal

I, too, developed 2 when I was required to ware dress shoes for a Summer job.
Fortunately, I wiped them out with a Hong Kong made "Corn Paste" I bought
in a Chinese drug store for $7.  I was pain free, and easy to use.  
Only problem is that it doesn't come with English instruction.  :->

Best of luck in getting rid of the CORN,
Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)        hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
From: milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Etonic Stable Airs
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:48:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.43439
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

In response to the question on Etonics . . .  I run in Stable Air Lites
most of the time, though I just trashed a pair running around Mt. St. Helens
in Washington last Sunday - the lava and extra weight of my pack did them
in.  The Ait Lites I found are fine for general training and racing, very
comfortable - I worn them on 35 mile runs.  The Stable Air Pro (II) are
very supportive, though a little stiff.  They last quite well in my
experience.  Road Runner Sports (mail order) has them for $70 right
now - in the most recent version (Pro II's).

-milt scholl

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano)
Subject: Re: No Marathon Legs?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:31:05 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <52540002@hpscit.sc.hp.com> karl@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Karl Watanabe) writes:
>
>
>My problem is I am running out of legs after 16 miles.  I have done
>3 18 mile runs, but I can't seem to go further because after 16 miles,
>my legs feel like s..t!  I tried slowing down to 9 min miles (just
>to see if that would make a difference) and my legs felt worse than
>at 8 min miles.  I was wondering if I just don't have the ability

You're running out of fuel.  Try planting some Ultra Fuel along
you're route.  Also, a fast 10k 3 or 4 days before your long run
followed by lots of carbohydrates (pasta) will help you load
your glycogen reserves for that long run.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luis P. Caamano                    |         lpc@dickens.com
Dickens Data Systems, Inc.         |         uunet!dickens.com!lpc
Atlanta, GA                        |         (404) 475-8860
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I think I know it all, I'll stop learning. -myself
The more I learn, the more I know I know nothing. -somebody else