HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnsd2@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:56:27 GMT

In article 78352@hydra.gatech.EDU, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>[I don't have access to the alt groups.]

Hmmm, I'm sorry for you, as they are really wonderfull.

(and I suspect you'd have a blast on alt.atheism. :) )

>In article <1992Dec14.135939.1888@lut.ac.uk> A.J.Robinson@lut.ac.uk (Alan Robinson) writes:
>|In article <1992Dec11.140927.21058@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
>|>Answer:
>|>
>|>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
>|
>|But I don't want to be like Christ and I don't want a relationship
>|with his dad.
>
>What is there about either Jesus the Christ or the Father that you
>don't want to be like or even know?  What does it require of you
>to let go of?

I probably shouldn't speak for Alan Robinson, but what they hell. Just watch
for that knee jerking about, wouldn't want it to hitcha.

So pardon me whilst I spew fourth my very own gobbldegook:

What you mean by "know" in "... that you don't want to be like or even
know" is completely obscure to me. Nobody has said anything about desiring
ignorance, so you can't mean know in the usual sence. There is of course
the Biblical sence... :>

So on the the "be like" part. I dont want to be like Christ because he has
to deal with this omnipotent God character who created him SPECIFICALLY to
beat on him. (well, kill him off very nastily) Not a good situation to be in.

Also, he is supposed to bear the entire burden of sin for the whole world.
I wouldn't know how to being to do that.

Those are the most interesting things about Christ that one might "be like";
as to the rest, well I don't think it would be terribly wise to put
Divine Power in my hands. Power Corrupts, ya know. And I'm already human,
and so like him in that way. Perhaps you mean some other feature of Christ?

As to the Father, I would not want to be such a meanie. I mean really,
he's so intolerant. Tossing people into hell, nuking cities, drowning
worlds... I dunno, it's just hard to admire that sort of thing. I certainly
would not want to be that way.

The other part of your question is less trivial. There IS something
I at least must abandon for this relationship. That is the act of thinking.
I must accept the Truth by Divine Fiat without questioning its reasonability,
it's accuracy, or its source. That is a big sacrifice. And it seems to be
a sacrifice for an illusion, however pleasant. It does not seem worthwhile
to me.

Understand now?

>For Christ and His Kingdom,
>Richard Pitts

Hmmm.. might I ask why Christ and His Kingdon needs you for a spokesman
(as it quite evidently does)? Doesn't He know about CNN? :>
---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Finnish Bible Translation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:08:22 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Dec14.023133.20515@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,
lungtt@gus.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) wrote:
> 
> In article <7923@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> alanf@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (Alan M Feuerbacher) writes:
> >
> >I think I'm having trouble with my news poster, so if you've
> >seen this request before, sorry in advance.
> >
> >Would any Finnish speakers help me out with translating a
> >passage from two Finnish bibles?  The more responses the better.
> 
> Where's Kent Sandvik?  I think he'd be a good bet for this task.

Hehe, I actually translated this twice, and according to Alan
I came up with two different translations concerning the key
issue. My Finnish is getting rusty.

I think the core issue is the 'years of Babylon' statement,
and unfortunately I don't think the Finnish text provides 
enough data to clearly state what was intended. Another good
example of the dangers of translating text from one language
to another.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
From: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Subject: Re: God etc
Reply-To: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: talk
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:47:24 GMT

In article <TORKEL.92Dec13170605@bugs.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel
Franzen) writes:
|>
|>  I find it baffling why, from the point of view of religion, it should be
|>considered a question of importance whether or not there is a God who
|>created the world, or again, whether or not Jesus was in fact a Savior
|>of mankind. Surely all this business about the universe being created,
|>about eternal life, about damnation and power and hopes and fears, is
|>irrelevant to what religion is about?
       
It is exactly what _religion_ is about (at least for Christians).  
I think you are thinking of _philosophy_, which requires nothing supernatural.
You can be religious and not believe in Jesus as a savior, but
then I think you would fail the definition of a religious Christian. ;)

Brian /-|-\
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: How to choose a Bible Translation
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:06:23 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:

>>A "young woman of marriageable age" had better be a virgin or
>>she would be killed.
>
>Questionable. I don't recall Mary, mother of Jesus being killed for
>being with child out of wedlock. 

This (accroding to the Bible) has more to do with Joseph than anything
else.  Even before the visit of the angel, Joseph planned to keep things
quiet and not have her punished.

>JPS (ISBN:0-8276-0252-9) translates this correctly. I'd be surprised
>that *all* other English translations see virgin here, but given the
>less than stellar history of Christianity, perhaps I shouldn't be. 
They do not.  NRSV (New Oxford Annotated edition) translates it as
'young woman' with the text note "(q)Gk the virgin".

ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) (among others) uses NRSV 
as their default text.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
Subject: Re: Deep Thoughts
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:41:27 GMT

In article <fWFUrDH@quack.sac.ca.us>
pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Jack Handy) writes:
 
>
>What if -
>
>A gigANTic, doNUT shaped, white space vehicle landed on earth -
>And a tall, blond, Aryan-looking fellow stepped out and yelled so
>***LOUDLY*** that eveRYONe in the world could hEAR:
>
>"FEAR NOT! FOR I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA AND I AM HE THAT LIVETH AND
>HE THAT DIETH, YET BEHOLD, I'M BACK! AND DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK, I'VE
>BEEN HERE FOR YEARS! ATTENTION ALL BELIEVERS, YE WHO CALL THYSELVES
>CHRISTIANS AND YE WHO ARE BY NATURE SHEEP! HERE'S YOUR MESSIAH! NOW,
>MAKE HASTE, COME QUICKLY MY SWEETIES, INTO MY ARK OF DONUT SHAPE, (sorry,
>it's the beast I could do on sUCH short noTICe, at beast I got a good deal!),
>COME ABOARD THE JEHOVAH-1, (aye, she be a just ship), FOR WE ARE BOUND TO
>THE KINGDOM OF YOUR LORD. COME MY EAGER SERVANTS AND MEAT YOUR MASTER.
>FOLLOW ME AND BE FREE."
>
>Would the aNSWer ever be in QUESTion?
>
>Even if you sudDENly found yOURsELF stRANGEly supERSTitIOUs?
 
Perhaps there is MORE fact than fiction is SoME oLd Myths, like
the Sumerian Clay tablets
 
 
A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land,
 
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably                     |
 |             not your's either; and                                  |
 |             only mine, when authorized!                             |
 |                                                                     |
 |                                   Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com   |
 +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:55:28 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1gnifaINNsko@cascade.ens.tek.com> davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:
>Jen Kilmer writes:
>>Christianity is true.
>
>  And so are many other spiritual traditions.	

How do you reconcile Jesus' statement of Himself being the only way to
the Father?  Jesus said the whole of Scripture points to Himself, yet
people refuse to come to Him.

It is written about Jesus that there is no other name given whereby men 
must be saved.  How do you reconcile this with these many other spiritual 
traditions?

I guess I'm asking what do you mean by truth - do you see no contradictions
between these spiritual traditions among themselves or with Christianity?

Sincerely,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu      |  Love and Worship God, the Creator of the Earth. 
                          --|--   
Pro-Life!              -|-  |  -|-    Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility!     |   |   |     before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Talk.religion.slam.mormons?
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:16:56 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Dec19.103451.4802@en.ecn.purdue.edu>,
muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) wrote:
> In article <1992Dec18.135531.9689@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >I haven't worked it out, but the percentage of material on this
> >newsgroup that is related to attacks on the LDS church seems awful high.
 
> Second only to "fundamental" Christianity... :-)

What I've seen and read most religions and non-religions (atheism,
agnosticism) are under attack on this newsgroup. My overall feeling
is that religions won't make humans more tolerant about alternate
views, neither non-religions. I'm neither good at this myself, but
at least I don't care whatever religious views people have, that's 
their own private business (and right).

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Fundamentalist Secret Society
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:09:04 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <adams.724005077@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) wrote:
> Steve.Gross@launchpad.unc.edu (Steve Gross) writes:
> >----  Once again, Mr. Adams you have attacked something I have said with the
> >ferocity only you can muster.  Where do I say (below) that I am trying to
> >escape judgement?  Where do I say I will not be judged the same as
> >everyone else?  Do I not say (below) "I will be judged as harshly as I
> >judge."?  Do I not say that "I will no doubt get whatever I deserve and
> >that will be fair."?

> That wasn't the thing I 'attacked with ferocity'...look again.  I was
> pointing out that this statement:

Well, please don't end up in an ad hominem style news debate that 
does just make your life miserable. Feel free to critisize issues, but
speaking from my own dark background you release the deamons of hell if
you open up the debate with innuendos. This is actually one of the reasons
I don't really spend much time on t.r.m any longer (neither believe
in religion as something that will make you a better person :-) ).


Cheers,
Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: 12/18/92   God's Promise in Luke 1:79
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	To give light
	to them that sit in the darkness
	and in the shadow of death,
	to guide our feet into the way of peace.

	Luke 1:79
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: Atheist, speak up.
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:07:21 GMT

rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
>What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means that right and wrong are spelled out for you,
that you have the comfort of feeling that some powerful being
  is on your side,
that you can look forward to living forever in a perfect world
  and being very happy if you satisfy your god,
that you feel you are pursuing absolute truth,
that you have a place to congrerate with other people
  who share your faith,
that you can count on other people to help you in times of trouble,
and that you are obliged to do all you can to bring other people
  to Christianity.

Have I spoken enough, Christian?

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /    carborundorum.                                             -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus )
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:53:26 GMT

traite@fellini.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite) writes:
>Yes, I too am an eclectic.  And I call myself pagan.  The point I'd
>like to add (ironically I made this point on  another list a few days
>ago;  any pagan/wiccan misc.kidders out there?
>I know Dawn Hardin also lurks there :) :)  )
>is that *WHATEVER* a person calls themselves is *THEIR* personal
>perogative.  No one has, (or IMHO should have) the right to dictate what is
>right for others.    With anything, I try to find out what
>people's personal preferences are and then abide by them when
>dealing/refering to them.  All I ask is that people do the same for
>me.  
>Just my $.02
To critique someone's choice of name is not equal to dictating to them what they
can and cannot call themselves.  I have no way of doing that, nor would I try.

______________
Matt Ivaliotes				a.k.a. Lotus
ivaliote@ux1				lotus@uiuc
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: An Unprovoked Act of Aggression. (wuz: Re: Luke, Derrida, etc.)
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:00:33 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <fWz2s4m@quack.sac.ca.us>, pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>> The best have all been humbled, even the great Indra. I sir, am not
>>> as enlightened as the best. 
>>I see. What is the difference between you and "the best?"
>  
> No greater than the difference between you and I.
> But, these differences are all we have to cling to, are they not?

Hmm...what I meant was, what makes you call some people "better" than 
others?  

>>>>If you would answer yes, I ask: How did you come to this conclusion (that
>>>>you are "enlightened")?
>>> How does one know he or she is enlightened?
>>That's what I was wondering.
> 
> You know. I know you know you know.

What makes you think _I_ know?

>>>>There is nothing outside the text. -- Usenet Survival Guide
>>> But, there is everything *outside* the text. The letters come alive, a
>>> to z.
>>Sort of the "words made flesh," eh?
> 
> Ah - yep. But this sort of thing happens all the time ya know.

Ok...the mirror opposite of that, the "flesh made word," probably the most
popular recreational pastime in history, equals "There is nothing outside
the text."   
 
Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca

Words, words, words.
From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:27:57 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

You want to and God has enabled you to do so.  (John 6:44, 56)

  
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:41:59 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

I had answered in a previous article:

>You want to and God has enabled you to do so.  (John 6:44, 56)

And S. E. Stansfield replied:

>Speak for yourself.  *I* don't want to.


Sorry guys.  I made a BIG mistake.  I didn't see at the
time that it could be interpretted like that.  What I meant
to say is this:


If you want to and if God has enabled you to do so.  (John 6:44, 56)


Sincerely,


Brian Ceccarelli
----------------
brian@gamma1.lpl.arizona.edu
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:51:10 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <BzF5GH.DI1@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
|rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
...someone else:
|>|Maybe we were blinded by our sin (pre-marital sex [GOSH] but what 
|>|is worse, guiltless lovemaking or Christian 'were not doing it
|>|honest guv' substitutes including everything your granny 
|>|never did ?)
|>Is it wise to forsake God for any sin?  God is always there
|>waiting for you - remember the prodigal son parable.  The young
|>man left his father and spent his fortune and morals, but the
|>father welcomed him home with open arms and had a party for him.
|Yeah.  So leave them alone.

Each individual has to come to Jesus on his own, but we are supposed
to proclaim the message.

|>There is rejoicing in heaven, when one sinner repents.
|
|>|Maybe we wised up and got on with our lives.
|>|Alan.
|
|>I pray you do seek wisdom and turn back to God, who loves you
|>and gave himself for you.  Sex is not some cure-all, much less
|>do either of you thing it is worth losing eternity with God
|>so that you can have 'guiltless' sex, if you really do.
|I pray that you stop preaching a very narrow image of God and what It wants,
|thus turning more and more intelligent people away from It.

Is 'my very narrow image' as such because you don't accept it?
Or is it because Jesus said that narrow is the path that leads to
eternal life and few there be that find it, but man find the
wide path that leads to destruction?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu      |  Love and Worship God, the Creator of the Earth. 
                          --|--   
Pro-Life!              -|-  |  -|-    Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility!     |   |   |     before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: lgp7q@Virginia.EDU ("")
Subject: Re: NON-CONFORMISTS UNITE!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:39:00 GMT

I thought you might appreciate this quote from Karl Barth:
"The word of God is there is no word of God." 
Luis at U.Va.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Luke, Derrida, Papists, Luther...and Steve Adams.
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<Bz8BKK.EB1@spss.com>
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:07:05 UTC

In article <Bz8BKK.EB1@spss.com> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>Re: Luke 14:26 - the verse that wouldn't die!
>hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <adams.724125297@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>>Amen and preach it!  No wait, that's not it.  "Come quickly Lord Jesus!
>>>Amen"  Yeah, that's it! 
>>Yo! J.C! Let's get a bloody move on!
>It's not so clear that you want this...given what Revelation says is going
>to happen to unbelievers...;-)

It's not so clear who the "unbelievers" are, is it? Just one more thing
to worry about, that's all, particularly for those who are self
proclaimed Christians. ::::B^}

>>I used to watch Dr. Jack Van Impe's paranoid musings on world affairs and
>>scripture every Saturday night, but it got boring. Like, Russia is really
>>going to invade Israel. Right, Jack. Like, the EC is going to take over the 
>>world. Uh huh. They can't even agree on soybean tariffs, and they're going to
>>take over the world by A.D. 2000. Fun for a while...and Rexella is SO cute..
>>but life is short. 
>Not Russia...it will be someone from the line of Magog (Japhethite)...mostly 
>Germanic.  The '10 nations' won't be the EC, though.  And actually, it's a
>3-nation coalition, with 7 hangers-on.  But hey, every centuries Christians
>have read Revelation as pertaining to their day.  Van Kampen is just one
>more to do that.  Evenetually, one of them WILL be right, when Christ does
>come again.

I'll use Christ as a metaphor for the Kingdom of the Lord, as in: Heaven
(The Kingdom of the Lord) is right here, right now, only most don't see
it for what it is. Hell is not seeing. We are not separated by time nor
distance, but by perception. Now, will this metaphoric Christ come to us
or must we go to him? And by going to him I'm certainly not refering to
becoming a "Christian" or joining a "church" but instead, I'm refering to
the realization of the Kingdom, right here right now. "I say preachermon
don't tell me, Heaven is not on the Earth, I know you don't know what
life is really worth, you say all that glitters is gold, half the story
have never been told, and now we see the light we're going to stand up
for our right." -B. Marley. "Life is to some people Heaven on Earth, if
you'd been living my life you'd know what its' worth, life is." -Too
$hort. "And we've got to get ourselves, back to the garden." -CSNY. It
seems many are expecting a Messiah to restore the Kingdom, to show us
the way. Why do so few see the metaphor? A teacher can only teach, it is
the students who must learn. Teacher says follow me and be free.
Students do what? Follow? And be Free? What's wrong with this picture?

>I did go through a period where I rejected organized
>religion, but never the existence of God.  He does exist.

As a metaphor? For what?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Bible verse for the day
Organization: Gizmonic Institute - Home of the "Super G Burger"
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:59:56 GMT

<1992Dec16.155556.29980@ncsu.edu> storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS) writes:
>As you will note, Gordon, the first passage addresses certain types of people.
>I'll let you read it again.

I would, if you knew how to use a newsreader and left in the post you were
responding to.

>Thank you, sir, for proving King Solomon correct.  God Bless you.  JLS

You're the one posting sexist quotes from the bible.  Don't get uppity
with me.


Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.