Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:18:27 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Church of England & women priests
 <BxMvx5.GDx@news.udel.edu> <92321.1821422893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1992Nov17.132416.510@erenj.com>

In article <1992Nov17.132416.510@erenj.com>, bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
says:
>
>In article <92321.1821422893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
>(andy) writes:
>>In article <BxMvx5.GDx@news.udel.edu>, stabosz@chopin.udel.edu (Rae Stabosz)
>>says:
>>>
>>>In article <92Nov12.204608est.9084@rock.db.toronto.edu> jdd@db.toronto.edu
>n
>>>(Joh
>>>DiMarco) writes:
>>>>U14663@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>>>
>>>1) What radical signs do you see, signs "of the times", to persuade you
>>>that in this century God is making the divine Will known in ways that
>>>were not so in other centuries?
>>
>>The fact that not enough men are being called to the priesthood. How many
>>parishes in Europe and North America, even once fervent Quebec are without
>>parish priests. Why would God not call enough men to the priesthood unless
>>it was because He was calling enough women to meet the shortage?
>
>Perhaps because of the secularization of our Faith, many vocations that
>would ordinarily be fulfilled are shunted aside.  It is hard to feel
>that you have a call to Religious life when: 1) the Church hierarchy
>can't even describe its own set of beliefs anymore, and 2) the world
>tells you that you would be a fool to do so.
>
>>
>>>2) Has there been a new consciousness about the status of women which
>>>is powerful enough to be the beginning of a new interpretation of God's
>>>revelation in Jesus, an interpretation which suggests that only in
>>>this century has it become clear that Jesus meant for the priesthood
>>>to be for both men and women?  What signs are there of this new
>>
>>Where does it say in the Bible that women cannot be priests. Indeed where
>does
>>it say that we should have Cardinals and Popes?
>>
>>>consciousness?  How would the Church, having the power (as Jim McKintosh
>>>points out after reading the document on women and priesthood) to
>>>change its mind about this point, be brought to the understanding that
>>>this is God's will?
>>
>>By the crisis of not having enough men called to the priesthood
>
>The absence of a good is not a compelling reason to institute an
>irregular practice.  In your mind, it may not be a Bad Thing, but,
>nothing has ever been advanced on either a theological or spiritual
>basis, underpinned by good scholarship, other than the rantings of the
>feminist and left end movements with their own agenda to advance.  You
>want proof for not having women priests?  Instead of the ad hominem
>attacks on the hierarchy, present some decent scholarship from rational
>thinkers on the opposition that would support the cause.

So are you saying that since it has never been done, it can never be done.
Well then one should also eliminate the current method of choosing Popes,
Papal Infallibility (a rule which is only about a century old) and
all of Vatican Council II

>>
>>>3) Is the male-only priesthood a "big deal" or not?  I'm asking
>>>this because it seems like we all want to have it both ways.  a) It's
>>>not a big deal so why won't the Church allow women priests?  b) It's
>>>a big big deal so why won't the Church allow women priests?  I used
>>>to hold to position a), not I hold to b).  When I ask myself that
>>>question -- why WON'T the Church allow women priests?? -- I have
>>>to conclude that it won't because the evidence would have to be
>>>overwhelmingly evident that God willed this, in order for the Church
>>>to make this change.  Either gender is a big deal, or it is not.
>>>I used to think it was not, now I think it is.
>>
>>There is a crisis of numbers in the clergy, is there not?
>>Why is this, is it by design or is God just becoming forgetful about calling
>>enough men to the priesthood?
>
>No, men are just deaf to the call of the Almighty to serve his people.
>
>Bryan D. Boyle    |Opinions mine, not Exxon's...
>Senior Engineer   |Sovereign Military and Hospitaler Order of St. John
>bdboyle@erenj.com |of Jerusalem, Knights of Malta
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