HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: efp90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Pritchard EF)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: WB3.0 & ECS machines - a thought
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:57:53 GMT

In <1992Nov16.171010.1412@dct.ac.uk> mcramm@dct.ac.uk (McRamm) writes:

>Something just occurred to me.

>If C= programmers are obeying their own rules about using the AGA chipset,
>why won't WB3.0 be available on ECS machines?

>Wny do we need WB2.1 at all? (unless, of course, they're hitting the chips at
>register level instead of using the graphics.library correctly......)

In the Workbench 3.0 Handbook you get with the 1200, ALL of the screen 
shots are of ECS machines; e.g. the Palette requester has only 0-16 RGB,
the SysInfo Tool shows a 68000 ECS machine etc.

I don't think there will be any trouble running WB3.0 on ECS (or even OCS)
machines, it just depends on if Commodore decide to release the ROMS...


----
E.F.Pritchard                       ///
efp90@uk.ac.soton.ecs           \\\/// Amiga     I seriously need something
University of Southampton        \xx/            to go on this side of my
England.                                         signature, any ideas?
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Notebook Computers Dominate Comdex
Distribution: world
Date: 23 Nov 92 03:06:21 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1eojn3INN3e7@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>In article <By1vnx.7HM@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>   Commodore would be in the notebook computer market with a notebook Amiga
>>if their engineers could develop one.
>
>Marc, this sounds to be about 50% insult to their intelligence, 50%
>challenge, and about 50% slam on C= engineering in general.
>
>Not to mince words, (mince) but you should really be more careful the
>way you put things.  You should know better.

It would probably be better to say that Commodore would be in the laptop
Amiga business if marketing thought they could sell them.

Laptops are primarily sold to executives who travel or take their work
home.

Considering the dearth of business software available for the Amiga, I
suspect they would have a hard time finding a large audience.

We're talking $2000+ for a mono laptop, and add approximately $2300 to that
for a color LCD screen.

I have never seen a laptop with a screen that I really liked.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Subject: Re: Programming
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:46:58 GMT

rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes:
>In article <OAHVENLA.92Nov15142130@lk-hp-4.hut.fi> oahvenla@snakemail.hut.fi (Osma Ahvenlampi) writes:
>It has been brought to my attention by a certain party that this thread
>is going all over the net.  I therefore suggest that, from now on, those
>wishing to post on this thread make sure their subject headers are only
>set for comp.sys.amiga.programming.

Yeah, well.  I have finally discovered the lost art of editing the followup
line (methinks)

>I appologize to everyone who were forced to bear this thread several
>times.

Hey, don't apologise to us!  We're advocacy, and we can take anything!!

At first I thought you guys had been expelled from your native group
for 'fighting' and sent to advocacy to cool off.

Torban Bennett -- torban@murdoch.edu.au -- "Game over boys!" - Mr Flibble.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dconnors@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au (David Connors)
Subject: Re: Commodore, here's a clue
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:44:26 GMT

pjotr@ludd.luth.se (Peter Sj|str|m) writes:

>In <8675@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:

>>Unix has to be updated to work with the 040.

>	Since when??? You are wrong, I'd guess.

You guessed wrong. C= Unix doesn't work on an '040. 


   Dave Connors - D.Connors@sct.gu.edu.au     Griffith University, Australia
 - -- ---=-==-=================================================-==--=--- -- -
  "I encourage all Americans to visit Iraq.  Come for Thanksgiving, come for
               Christmas.  You will be welcomed with open arms."
              - Mohammed Al-Mashad, Iraqi Ambassador to the U.S.
 - -- ---=-==-=================================================-==--=--- -- -
From: gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de (Michael Grom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Develops PC Product in 14 weeks
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:18:18 MED
Organization: private Amiga Site

In article <BxvyqF.7MA@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
> [The following is from USA TODAY, 11/17/92]
>
>
>    If you think IBM won't be venturing into personal communications, think
> again.
>
>    [At Comdex] IBM showed a prototype device that features an on-screen keypad
[.lots of stuff deleted.]

> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------
>

Amen!

--
- Michael Grom -gromyko@sputnik.rhein-main.de-FRG 6000 Frankfurt 60__
________________ (voice:)+49 69 44 12 87      Roederbergweg 136_  ///gib MB
...is clearly a |____________________________________________ \\\///   keine
     need for emotional decontamination and mental correction| \XX/ CHANCE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Oh my God!  Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:15:42 GMT

In article <69615@cup.portal.com> L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno) writes:
>By the way, Eric >>
> 
>	Did your friend, heidi@zeus.c-engr2.siu.edu, ever get that PC
>(whose potential purchase started this flame-fest)?
> 
>	It's interesting that both Amiga and Clone sides seem to have
>forgotten said individual in all of the flaming, bashing, bombing, and
>otherwise healthy social behavior :-)

If I am not mistaken, she got an Amiga3000.

>L-Bueno@cup.portal.com
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival  
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29296 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:7460
From: mjm2789@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.J. Maslow)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: MorphPlus Used On Quantum Leap
Date: 17 Nov 92 02:34:40 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: mjm2789@ultb

Anyone who happened to be watching the NFL Monday night game might have seen that an Amiga was used in a commercial to
help out with high school football plays, etc.  If you looked close at the monitor it was either a 1084 or 1084s, because
the fron plate was down, BUT, they covered up the model number with a piece of Black tape....  Why???  were they afraid
of the flack they might receive from the Non-Amiga world????   All i can ask is why...  :(

			Mark
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Stupid stickers on a OPEN system!!!
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:33:21 GMT
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

I got my 4000 just yesterday...all was right in the world.  I was gonna
take a look inside the pup, and install my SCSI board while i was there. As
I spun the machine around I noticed that there is a STICKER over the top
back right hand screw with some crap on it about voiding my warranty!!!!!
This is ridiclous!!!!..Well I got over it, left the machine shut and began
using it for a while..........(time passes...over night to be exact.)....came
back into the room this morning and it smelled a bit like burning dust. I
checked out the system...seemedto boot fine. hmmmmm??!...well I reached up to
move my monitor over a bit and nearly BURNED myself on the case!  After
further inspection I realized the machine was so quiet cause the fan hasn't
run since i got it.  The problem is probably a loose wire, so i could just
check that out right???? NO WAY!!...can't open the machine cause of that
sticker...and since I have had the machine only 2 days, I can't get CBM GoLd
service on it cause I havn't sent my sheet it for the validation number. I
decided to call up the 1-800 service number, they told me to talk to my dealer.
I tried to explain that my dealer is over 100 miles away and is NOT in any form
convient to get to.  So, now the big question.  WHY IS THERE A WARRENTY VOIDING
STICKER ON THE BACK OF AN A4000 which is ment to be expanded!!. I sure as hell
don't want to have to drive 100 mile everytime I want to put a card in or
change a jumper on one of my cards! Please someone from CBM tell me that it is
ok to open my 4000 to check for the wire on the fan..PLEASE!!!!!!


Jim

A4000 owner...sort uh.

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
           Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: imr@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ian M Rae)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:44:38 GMT
Organization: University of Birmingham

>>
>>	... the Falcon beats the 1200.  No, really, these important features
>>of the Falcon always seem to get 'brushed off' by Amigoids when comparing
>>the two machines.  Imagine how much it would cost to add most of these
>>features to the 1200 (and then prey that 3rd party software vendors support
>>your add-ons).  In fact, most of these can't even be found on the 4000.

[ Stuff deleted ]

>>	8. CD Codec
>>	7. DSP

>These will both be included in any 16 bit sound expansion.  8 bit sound is
>fine for the majority of users, so why make them pay for it?  If YOU want 16
>bit sound, YOU pay for it, not me.  Besides, the 56001 in the Falcon is
>cheesy.

"The 56001 is cheesy", WTF is that supposed to mean...

	Software modems/faxes
	Real time audio effects/processing at > CD quality
	etc... ad nauseum ( if you own an Amiga )

Also falcon can do _WITHOUT_ using the DSP

	16 bit stereo sampling with Direct to Disk recording
		(if you use DSP aswell the sample can be compresses easily by a
		factor of 4:1 in REAL TIME thus removing the puny argument that
		16 bit sound is useless in a 1 Meg machine)

	8 channel 16 bit playback

So get a life and actually admit just once that an atari machine has better specs
as standard than the comparable Amiga one... ( i for one admit the AGA gfx are
better for some stuff than the Falcons... )

>880K flopies are included because, from what i've heard, there isn't a
>slimline HD drive (halfspeed) that will fit in the 1200.  Besides, it's a lot
>more expensive.

Oh dear, for all those years Amigas had superior 880K floppies, now you have
inferior 880K floppies just face it !

It seems to me all the things Amiga boasted amout for so long have been
superceded in a BIG way, and all of a sudden it doesnt matter how good the sound
is, how big yer floppy is ( no comment !)...

Ian Rae
Software Engineer
University of Birmingham

	
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:45:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.040144.24145@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.033922.11247@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>OS/2 ray-tracers never kill my system.
>
>John, can you suggest a OS/2 ray tracer and where I can get it?

ftp-os2.nmsu.edu:\pub\os2\2.0\graphics has a version of DKBTrace for OS/2, 
including a PM version.  The same directory has an OS/2 version of RayShade,
and /pub/downloads has povray for OS/2.

John W. Linville

P.S.  Followup to comp.os.os2.apps or .misc.




+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
|   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:10:56 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell) writes:

>Yes there is: something physical is stolen, which prevents someone else from
>legally buying it. The point the original poster was making is that - even
>if they "steal" the software - the original package will be available for 
>someone else to buy. The software company does not actually lose something
>physical as a result. It's all on paper. :-)  My understanding of whether
>someone is depriving a software company of money is: would they have paid
>real money for that package if they couldn't copy it? An example: someone
>has a copy of ProPage on their HD. They use it maybe twice a year for running
>off a CV. Is it worth paying $200 (or whatever) for that privilege? If copying
>software was impossible, would they buy it? No, they would just find a friend
>who had bought it, call over to him/her, and borrow their machine for an hour
>or so. So the software company doesn't lose out in the end.

The difference between copying a piece of software (to keep in your HD) and
calling up your friend (to borrow his/her tools) is that:

The item can only be used in *1* place at *1* time.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila) writes:
>	This doesn't make a brick better for ME.  (When buying a new computer,
>I don't care at all what kind of power they use in other countries)

You care when it means another $50 or more to the pricetag.

>	Here it is again!  Add, add, add, "The 1200 is more expandible"
>(read: featurless).  If the 2 systems are simularly priced, then what are you
>paying for on the 1200?  Your main argument is "why make people who aren't
>going to use it pay for it?".  Well, if Commodore saved all this money by not
>having these features, and it is about the same price as the Falcon, what
>do I get for the money that was saved?
>
>P.S.  Only intelligible responses needed, I am still giving the 1200 a chance
>      before I buy a Falcon.  (I have almost got enough saved up and have
>      definently narrowed it down to either the Falcon030 or the 1200.  I am
>      just having trouble getting meaningful info on the 1200).
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you get?  You get a 25 bit palette.
you get a screenmode that can display 262,144+ colors out of that 25 bit
palette.
you get a blitter that's 32 bit, has 3 sources and 1 destination, 256
minterms, and prefetch capabilities that leave more cpu time on the chip bus.
You get a good, 3d looking multi-tasking OS with 7 years of development behind
it.
You get a full 32 bit expansion bus, plus industry standard PCMCIA.
You get the option of adding things you want, such as 030's, 040's, 060's..
DSP's (lots of different ones, since it'll be 3rd party.. there isn't a market
on the falcon for DSP's since 99.9% of the people won't see a need to upgrade
from a 56001, like most Mac users don't see a need to upgrade to a real SCSI
controller compared to their crappy one.)
You a full year onsite service warantee.

This is off the top of my head, would you like more?

.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {crash tcnet petrus quest}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | Amiga, IBM, and any  |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil             | system you let me    |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                       | get my grubby mind   |
|------------------------------------------------------| into.                |
| Programmer at large, employment options welcome, inquire within.            |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mike@rahul.net (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: World Of Commodore Video (Pasadena)
Organization: a2i network
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:40:00 GMT

>In article <1emok6INNl4h@pith.uoregon.edu> ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:
>>
>>VERY LIMITED OFFER FOR USERS' GROUPS ONLY: WORLD OF COMMODORE VIDEO (PASADENA)
>>                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>   I have a copy of the World of Commodore video made by Mike Smithwick, 

Hey, that's funny, so do I!  ;-)

>>and
>>distributed freely by The Amiga Group. As per my agreement with them, I am
>>making this video available to USERS' GROUPS ONLY. (If you want a personal
>>copy, join a users' group and get a copy from them). I WILL ONLY MAKE TWO
>>COPIES OF THIS VIDEO TAPE - PERIOD. 

Actually this goes against my original request. A fellow from back east
wanted that tape, so I sent him the copy I used at my own users group meeting,
with the stipulation that he provide any and all copying of the tape for other
groups.

He misunderstood slightly and in turn sent out copies himself requesting that
the other groups in turn make copies to hand out, and so on....

What this means is that an already mediocre tape is going to end up on
someone's TV as a 4rth or 5th generation copy, and I'd rather not
put people through that. So the people with the earliest generations
of the tape have to greater obligation to copy it, or to actually send
their copies on to other groups once they are done.

The other stipulation is the my original disclaimer stay with the tape,
explaining the poor quality (I have no video gear beyond an older Camcorder and
a couple of mid-level VHS decks, nor any video boards or video SW
for my Amiga). The audio was often poor due to bad or low levels in the 
meeting rooms, I missed major portions of the talks because either a battery
died, or I got there too late to run back to grab a spare. The essence of all
of the talks has been covered elsewhere, but it is always reassuring to see
them for real. 

>>Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                       Willy Beamish Development Team
>>All opinions expressed are my own.                      (MS-DOS CD-ROM, Sega-CD)
>ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu, BIX: ggiles                   Author of DiskInfo, ZSound

Mike

Now I can go and start work on my COMDEX video.


-- 
"Friends don't let friends vote Democratic"

Mike Smithwick - mike@rahul.net
From: kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: New topic of the week - Is ECS dead?
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:58:37 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


     While I ponder where I am going to come up with the cash for a new
computer, I ask myself repeated if I should sink another dime into
my A2000. What with the prices of the A3000 dropping like a 
proverbial rock, the only real upgrade for my A2000 is a video toaster
or DCTV. 
     With the introduction of the AGA chipset (Available only for the
A4000, and the A1200), it seems to me that anything that is pre-AGA
will pretty much end up the way of my original Apple ][+. I'll be lucky
to get $1000 for my A2000 in a year. Not that I lament the fact that
technology marches on, (It would be $500 more than I got for the Apple)
its just that I now question who will continue to develop for anything
not AGA-based. Certainly not the top developers whose packages are
considered a must for productivity.
    One could draw the analogy that Commodore is pulling off one of the
best scams to hit the industry in a long time. Instead of a software
upgrade (regardless of system - most are overpriced, yes, even WB2.1),
C= is basically asking its 4 million+ user base to upgrade their hardware
system. My real question here is, just how many will open their mouths
and swallow the bait?

    Consider the following:

A4000 - Pricey compared to a clone...
A4000 - IDE, not SCSI...be prepared to sell off your old peripherals
        until C= comes out with the SCSI adapter card (Scratch one
        expansion slot)
A4000 - No sound improvement (Scratch one expansion slot)
      
Other future problems...No C++ (The industry leaders rant and rave about
object oriented programming, but fail to realize that writing software
is still a creative process.)
No hardware manual for the AGA chipset. This is still very upsetting to me
when one takes into account that most Amiga users are a slight cut above
the clone users and bought the Amiga for its ability to hit the hardware.
It was the demos that first made people buy the A500 at a time when most
clones were still in their technological diapers. I will eventually
buy an A4000, but maybe I'll hold out for an A5000 (or whatever else they
have dreamed up in a few years.) 

So where does this leave the non-AGA machines? I'll make a small prediction
and say they will rapidly become extinct...(Except for toaster-based
system whose life-expectancy will last only until Newtek comes out with
an AGA-based toaster...
                                                  T. K. Kontos
From: kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 PCTask Demo Results
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:51:29 GMT
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu's message of 17 Nov 92 16:58:34 GMT

>>>>> On 17 Nov 92 16:58:34 GMT, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) said:
Skip> Nntp-Posting-Host: tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Skip> Okay, I just finished running the PCTask Demo on the A4000 and it works
Skip> pretty well.  It booted off of a 1.44M MSDOS floppy in pc0: with no
Skip> problem and ran everything that I tried.

Skip> The Norton SI benchmark rated is as 4.2 times the speed of an IBM XT,
Skip> versus about 1.0 for the A3000.

That sounds pretty good for a software based emulator. I think it would
be really cool if C= licensed PC-Task and included it in the 3.1 rev of
the OS, like they did with Cross-DOS. I think all new Amigas having the
ability to fully emulate a DOS box would be a good marketing tool.

Oh yeah, BTW, is the CGA emulation in PC-Task straightened out yet?
When I tried it on my 3000. It seemed faster than IBeM but less
compatible.
--
/**************************************************************************/
/* Kent Dalton                   * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */
/* NCR Microelectronics          * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319            */  
/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A      *   FAX: (303) 226-9556                  */
/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525  *                                        */
/**************************************************************************/
All this time I've been VIEWING a RUSSIAN MIDGET SODOMIZE a HOUSECAT!