HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jahr@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Steve Jahr)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Transmitter/Receiver Mods
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:40:13 GMT
Organization: Old Programmers Home
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL7]

Chris Kaiser (kaiser@elec.canterbury.ac.nz) wrote:

    ... basic stuff about plane needing elevon type mixing deleted ...
 
: > As to mixing... it is probably possible.  The biggest difficulty
: > would be creating two "inverse" signals to drive the alternate
: > ailerons.  Once this is accomplished, then mixing the elevator
: > signal onto these signals is probably fairly simple.  To provide
: > fuel for thought... I'll repost something I wrote up a while back
: > on adding channels to a Tx.  The main relevance to this discussion
: > is basic control stick circuitry.
: 
:    ... good stuff on adding channels deleted ...
: 
: The way to do this in the Tx is to add the aileron and elevator
: channels together for one servo, and subtract them for the other
: - then use servo reversing if necessary to get the right actions.
: Building an "adder" and "sutracter" is not hard if you have some
: basic electronic knowledge. The subtractor is the trickier of the
: two as you need to set up a reference voltage equal to that of
: the control stick when it's at neutral. Somebody posted a Tx V-tail
: mixer quite a while ago that used this principle (same circuit, just
: different channels mixed). If that person is still on the net perhaps
: they could repost the circuit. Failing that, and if there is interest,
: I could post my circuit. However I must point out that I didn't get
: around to building it (not because I didn't think it would it work,
: but because I ended up using my computer radio for that model instead).

Well...... this sounds good on paper.  The problem is that the inside
of a Tx is a very hostile environment for electronic thing-ies.  Seems
that there is a great deal of EM garbage/noise being generated from
that long metal thing sticking out (:

Seriously, I tried a little op-amp adder for a dual rate circuit once
and it didn't work anything like I expected.  As I recall it worked on
the voltmeter *until* I reconnected the RF module and then it went nuts.
Seems that the op-amp tried to follow the RF signal noise as well as
the control pot signal.  Nothing that I tried would clean up the signal
enough (filter capacitors and RF chokes).

Perhaps if you use a *really* slow op-amp though...

Steve Jahr
jahr@hprnd.rose.hp.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mmcevill@mitre.org (Michael A. McEvilley)
Subject: Frequency Alert - AMA Action
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 16:31:06 GMT

I just received correspondence from the AMA regarding the proposed 
frequency restructuring.

It consists of a cover letter, suggested draft for sending to the FCC and 
elected officials,  and a flyer explaining the proposed changes.

Be on the look-out for it, and put it too use!!!!


Michael A. McEvilley
mmcevill@mitre.org
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Shred Avoidance
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:31:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan27.212658.22276@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, jackson@sn.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

> ...and I figure U.S. Rocket motors are defunct.

If you mean practically, you're probably right.  If you mean theoretically,
he's back pushing them on hobby shops again!  Yes indeed, the heat must be
off -- US Rockets is back to advertising product!

There's an 800 number on the promotions.  If you call it, you get this weird
disjoint answering machine message welcoming you to "the Irvine Agency" and
asking you to leave personal data, premium requirements, and "whether or not
you are a smoker, for product (?) testing purposes."
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Fun (Really!) at NARFUN
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:47:35 GMT

How about a show of hands out there? How many folks out there in net.land are
planning to attend NARFUN '93 in Phoenix? I realize that it is more than two
weeks away (practically an eternity as far as planning goes for people like
me :-) ), but let's get a rough idea.

Along the same lines, how about a get together for net.people (as opposed to
a get together for CI$ people, who usually have their own get together) while
we're down there? We could try to schedule (as it were) it so it doesn't
conflict with any meeting of folks on the aforementioned "Brand C" forum, if
that's a priority.

John Viggiano, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu
NAR 25615
From: barrett@add.itg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:09:06 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: powder.add.itg.ti.com

In article <1993Jan21.171341.20349@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>,
        tes@motif.uucp (Thomas E. Smith) writes:

>>  I'm thinking about getting into HPR.  I've launched the Arotech's
>>Aereoux a few times with G-80 moters and I'd like More Power!  Grunt!
>>Grunt!  So I saw LOC's Caliber and it looked like the one I wanted to
>>break into HPR with.  It can use G through I moters, so I can go pretty
>>far through the certification process with it.  And it has pretty good
>>altitude (7500 ft).  I was wondering
>>
>>  1. How high with it go with a G moter, and
>>  2. What do all you HPR launchers out there think of the Caliber?

  Tom, I built the Caliber as my second HPR rocket.  It is a good model.
I don't like the way that LOC attaches the shock cord (to the wall of
the body tube), but that is easily fixable.

  The Caliber that I have has a 54mm motor mount so it will take a full
J pretty easily.  I launched mine at Black Rock to 7400' on a J275.  My
the first launch was with a G80 and it went up just a little over 1000'
(eye ball method).  Use a short delay!!  An H180 is a nice motor for
sport flying on a medium size field.  Use a medium delay trimmed back
to about 8 seconds.

  My buddy bought the Caliber as his first HPR and seems pleased with
it.  He, like me would suggest that you might want to look at going with
a 4" diameter rocket.  It is easier to prep (your hand can fit inside
the body tube, ejection baffles are easier to service).  The THOY Falcon
is a VERY nice 4" kit.  It is not a high flyer like the Caliber but is a
nice sport model.  It performs VERY nice on a J180.

  Have fun.  I enjoy flying my Caliber.  I flew it last weekend with an
I112.  It landed 100 yards away.

Stu Barrett  barrett@add.itg.ti.com
TRA#1277  NAR#4341
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Question about electronic ejection control
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:27:03 GMT

I would like to build an electronic ejection control system into my next
rocket.  I want the ability to set varying ejection delays based on
different motors and vehicle weights.

I've seen mention of and advertisements for electronic timers that may be used
to control custom ejection delays.  I understand that these are hooked to 
a capacitor or battery as a source of power for an electric match or 
flashbulb.   What gets fuzzy after that is exactly what is used to provide
the ejection change itself.  Do you use black powder in some type of container,
which you ignite via the pulse from the capacitor/timer?

I'm interested in construction details, parts requirments, sources for the 
black powder, alternatives to explosive ejection systems (if any), etc.

Have there been any construction articles in _Tripolitan/HPM_ or _AmSpam_?

Are there commercial products available?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

================================================================================
= Buzz McDermott                Disclaimer: I speak for no one but myself, and =
= buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com                       anyone who listens to anything I   =
= NAR   13559                               have to say deserves whatever they =
= TRA    1785                               get!!                              =
================================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder)
Subject: JULBPP.ZIP still bad on archive site
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:29:05 GMT

Some months back, I had posted that the file julbpp.zip on the r.m.r
archive site (sunsite.unc.edu) appeared to be bad (it won't
unzip).  Someone, I don't remember who, was going to upload a
good version.  I looked today and it seems that the old file is still
there.  Does anyone know where, or if, a good copy is available?
Thanks.

--
Greg Elder                                        elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Department of Computer Science            or      elder@seine.eas.asu.edu
Arizona State University

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: JULBPP.ZIP still bad on archive site
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:27:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.172905.6280@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes...
>Some months back, I had posted that the file julbpp.zip on the r.m.r
>archive site (sunsite.unc.edu) appeared to be bad (it won't
>unzip).  Someone, I don't remember who, was going to upload a
>good version.  I looked today and it seems that the old file is still
>there.  Does anyone know where, or if, a good copy is available?
>Thanks.
> 
>--
>Greg Elder                                        elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
>Department of Computer Science            or      elder@seine.eas.asu.edu
>Arizona State University
> 

Hmmmmmm....

I downloaded that once (after your first post) to check it, and it was in
fact somehow corrupted. So, I uploaded another copy. Once I got it on
this here vax that I use, I redownloaded it to make sure my modem was
uploading it ok. It was fine then, so maybe there is something that screws
up a .zip file between my vax and sunsite. This is probably where the 
problem comes from: The text was mac, copied to a PC, zipped, xfered
it back to the mac, uploaded it to a vax, and ftp'd it to a sun. Any
questions? :)

I'll see if I still have the files and send them to you directly, maybe
that'll help.

------
Tim Harincar				A skunk is better company than
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			someone who prides themselves on
 					being frank. -Lazerus Long
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:21:25 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan21.010654.3022@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (Roger Wilfong) writes:

 [talking about AmSpam "ignitor" article]

>: It was the lack of that information that disapointed me.
>
>Agreed - the research was very poorly conducted. The person also did not
>seem to know too much about thermodynamics. I would have been interested
>in the energy output curves.
>
>It would also have been nice if the person had done some testing of just
>how fragile the various igniters were.
>
>All in all, I found the articles rather useless.

I think you guys have both picked up on my main complaint about Douglas
Kirk, M.S., Directory of the Model Rocket Test Facility (tm) that I
moaned about in my tirade a couple of weeks ago. (Said tirade, BTW, was
almost universally ingnored by this group. Whatsa matter, can't be
bothered by such small fry?)

Mr. Kirk apparently conducted his "research" based not on any study to
determine what parameters made an ignitor work, but rather on what tests
he was able to perform. 

Why did he vary the voltage and not the current? Because he could! Why didn't 
he vary the current? Because he couldn't! Does dipping an ignitor in plastic 
and firing it under water determine how well it can ignite a rocket motor?
I don't know, but it was a good test!

The thing that still gnaws at me is that this guy is passing himself off
as an athority, and his "research" will probably be taken as gospel by
the Grammar/High School age crowd which is still the main target of the
NAR educational programs.  When I saw the first installment, I was hoping
for an article like Matt Steele's excellent study of black powder CATO's
a few issues back. But when I saw the name at the top (and on all the 
captions, and tables, and sidebars) I just groaned.

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||  "I'm sorry they're flying so low and jamming your radar, Dimitri, but  ||
||    they're trained to do that. It's called, you know, initiative"       ||
=============================================================================
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Livermore meeting and Launch
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:41:50 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

OK, here is the final word on the Livermore club meeting and
launch this week.

The meeting, as previously posted, is tonight, 1/21, at the Asbury
Methodist Church, 4743 East Ave in Livermore, classroom #8. All
subsequent meetings this year will be at the historic Carnegie
building in the middle of Carnegie Park (more on that as the time
gets closer). Tonight's meeting starts at 7, but feel free to drop
in any time up 'til the end at 9.

The launch is still scheduled for this Saturday, 1/23, at Gardella
Greens behind City Hall, starting at 8:30 AM. Dispite the constant
rain, the launch area is relatively firm, but the recovery area
is very muddy. Dress accordingly. If it's sunny we launch, if it's
raining we don't, if you're not sure call (510) 447-9025 between 6:30
and 8:30 AM for a recorded announcement telling you the status.

For more info, mail me or call number in my .sig below.

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||  "I'm sorry they're flying so low and jamming your radar, Dimitri, but  ||
||    they're trained to do that. It's called, you know, initiative."      ||
=============================================================================
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Tracking
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:07:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

maine@altair.dfrf.nasa.gov (Richard Maine) writes:
: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (Roger Wilfong) writes:
: > Kind of shoots hole in the 'X-form' parachutes don't drift as far a regular 
: > parachutes theory.  Doesn't it?
: 
: Yes.  I've long thought those claims "amusing."  Actually I'd expect an
: X-form probably wouldn't drift as far as other parachutes of the same area
: for the simple reason that the drag is probably lower and thus the descent
: rate higher; of cource you could achive the same effect by just using a
: smaller chute.

Or cutting a large hole in the center of the larger chute.

Bill
From: lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 25 Jan 93 07:18:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofN23bG00WB80ZjVMx
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

As an often-ignored poster here, I can appreciate Jack's frustration at
having few answers to his tirade. I also appreciate Jack's support for
my own tirades :) As for Douglas Kirk, I admit to being disappointed
with his igniter article. After all the hype about finding the best, we
got a matrix of measurements with very limited value and the conclusion
that all the igniters work. Tell us something we don't know! I also
doubted his statistics concerning the Big Bertha in a previous article
and posted to that effect.

On the other hand, AMSPAM was once a lot more boring than it has been
recently, and for the improvement we owe thanks in no small measure to
Jack. The past history has lowered my standards a bit, and Kirk's
articles don't strike me as so awful compared to some a few years back.
Kirk does get a lot of photo coverage. I'm sick of looking at him and
his wife, but the kid is kinda cute...

He does seem to have taken over the last issue though. That's disturbing
to say the least.

Best regrads,
-Larry
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: tes@motif.uucp (Thomas E. Smith)
Subject: LOC's Caliber
Organization: Software Technology Branch - NASA/Johnson Space Center
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:13:41 GMT


I'm thinking about getting into HPR. I've launched the Arotech's Aereoux a few
times with G-80 moters and I'd like More Power! Grunt! Grunt! So I saw LOC's
Caliber and it looked like the one I wanted to break into HPR with. It can use
G through I moters, so I can go pretty far through the certification process
with it. And it has pretty good altitude (7500 ft). I was wondering
  1. How high with it go with a G moter, and
  2. What do all you HPR launchers out there think of the Caliber?

-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
| It's not my damn planet, understand  | Tom E. Smith                      |
| Monkey Boy?!!       John Bigbootey   | tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov       |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Tracking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:51:35 GMT

tes@motif.uucp (Thomas E. Smith) writes:
:  
: Try chasing a rocket with a G motor :) . I lost sight of it after it went
: behind the clouds. I was wondering if there were any smoke devices you could
: put in your rocket to track it. One that wouldn't have any danger of starting
: a grass fire when it landed?

There was an article, in an early Tripolitan, on the subject. I believe it
was written by Tom Blazanin. It is highly possible that the issue sold out.
If someone else does not post information on which issue has the article, I
will attempt to remember to do so.

It might be a good article to get permission from The Tripolitan and the
author for typing in on the net. I certainly would be interested in seeing
the information.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK)
Subject: HELP!!!!!!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Villanova University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:18:00 GMT

One of you great people mailed me 3 Powr Pad tilters, and an address as to
where I should send the check.  HELP!  A thoughtful parent tossed the letter
you sent out, and my mainframe's auto mail purge erased your E-mail, so I
don't even remember you name (too much beer.  Rotting ther brain cells...)!

I owe you money!  Please leave info!

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Igniters
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:13:06 GMT

jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:

... delided ...

: I think you guys have both picked up on my main complaint about Douglas
: Kirk, M.S., Directory of the Model Rocket Test Facility (tm) that I
: moaned about in my tirade a couple of weeks ago. (Said tirade, BTW, was
: almost universally ingnored by this group. Whatsa matter, can't be
: bothered by such small fry?)

I missed your tirade, sorry about that.

: Mr. Kirk apparently conducted his "research" based not on any study to
: determine what parameters made an ignitor work, but rather on what tests
: he was able to perform. 
: 
: Why did he vary the voltage and not the current? Because he could! Why didn't 
: he vary the current? Because he couldn't! Does dipping an ignitor in plastic 
: and firing it under water determine how well it can ignite a rocket motor?
: I don't know, but it was a good test!

Well, he did vary the current - he just didn't measure it. The current 
changed every time the voltage was changed.

I think he was talking about having to immerse an ignitor in water to determine
the calorific output - that is obviously nonsense. I do not recall him ever
stating that any such test was actually performed.

: The thing that still gnaws at me is that this guy is passing himself off
: as an athority, and his "research" will probably be taken as gospel by
: the Grammar/High School age crowd which is still the main target of the
: NAR educational programs.  When I saw the first installment, I was hoping
: for an article like Matt Steele's excellent study of black powder CATO's
: a few issues back. But when I saw the name at the top (and on all the 
: captions, and tables, and sidebars) I just groaned.

Hopefully, the NAR will not see fit to republish the thing anywhere.

Anything of any use in the articles, you could easily obtain by making a
5 minute phone call to the manufacturer.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: barrett@add.itg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Question about electronic ejection control
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:02:09 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: powder.add.itg.ti.com

In article <1993Jan22.172703.15050@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com>,
        buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:


>>> Lots of questions relating to timers and ejection devices...

Buzz,

  Adept Rockety has some very nice electonics.  Tommy Billings builds
good stuff.

  Robbies Rockets has some easy to use, pre-built ejection modules built
around a flashbulb.  I talked to Robbie a few weeks ago (when I ordered
some flashbulb igniters and some ejection charges) and he said that he
had just shipped some of this products to Adept so you may be able to do
a one stop shopping with Adept.  Robbie makes various size charges for
just about any size rocket. He does custom work.

  Tommy required a signature, Robbie may as well (I met him at LDRS, so
he knew me).  This is only a problem if you like to do business over the
phone.

  I decided to buy Adept's Barometric Altimiter w/triggers so that I
don't have to figure times.  This adds a tremendous safety factor since
the cute will always deploy at the right time regardless if all of your
engines fired or not.  It will even save a 2nd stage that didn't light!
Put the smarts in the rocket!

  Adepts timers are $15-$30 depending on current needs and number of
timer modules.  Their Barometric Altimeter w/triggers is $65.  Robbies
ejection charges are a buck or two.

  It starts to get exciting when you put electronics and live charges in
HPRs.

Stu Barrett  barrett@add.itg.ti.com
TRA#1277  NAR#4341