HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dano@usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:53:41 GMT

har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.224149.1414@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>>Why do we even bother talking about this? It is obvious we are not going
>>get exact equal comparisons, so we should do this the easy way. Get 
>>a magazine that has already tried comparing the two and read their results
>>(like I said before, something like a UNIX magazine that tested a common
>>operating system, etc.)

>Oh, like the famed unix review article where they were sent an untuned small
>machine. Yeah, right.

>Look, the unix magazines know that their largest market is people coming into
>unix with their 386 boxes, and the last thing these people want to see is
>any benchmark that would make their boxes seem inferior. If such benchmarks
>show up, they will be supressed.

C'mon, Seebs.  You claim every UNIX magazine sways there reviews, ie
LIES because of 386 UNIX users.  I really doubt that;you imply that UNIX
magazine are the computer world's _ENQUIRER_.

And no, don't you dare ask me to prove they are biased.

_Dan
./

>Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
>line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
>I use an amiga because it works better than all the other machines I tried.
>har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
--
Daniel Anthony Stephenson, player of Praetorius, namer of The Solarium.
dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu das9674@usl.edu
"I can be, what I want to, and all I need is to get my boogie
down"- Al Jarreau.
From: hauer@roby.ecn.purdue.edu (Corey Hauer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM is a game machine company
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:46:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Apr9.184600.20146
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <30212@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>Apple's Mac IIs went for $5,000+ when they hit the street.  Of course, the
>A2000/20 wasn't too far behind when it came out in '88.  And you kind of got

Maybe $5000 retail, but I paid $3000 mail order for my Mac II in 1988.

-Corey
From: raymondu@terapin.com (Raymond Ulibarri)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:03:03 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

   CDTV Development may happen on any of the Amiga family of computers. 
Commodore presonally recommends the A2500, since with 68000 fallback you can
partially emulate CDTV (1MB Chip RAM, 8MHz 68000 CPU).  However, CATS has a
(rather pricey for the backyard developer) CDTV emulator board which plugs
into the A2x00/A3000 computer and emulates a CDTV unit for testing purposes. 
This CDTV emulator board is available from CATS directly to registered CDTV
developers.
   As for the RAM limitation of CDTV, don't knock it yet.  That's all I can
safely say.

   Raymond Ulibarri
   Vice President
   MultiCon
   (510)261-1001
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec316.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom"
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: Information Technology Services, Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:37:31 GMT

In article <64931@apple.Apple.COM>, lsr@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein) writes:
|> In article <1992Mar31.042348.28067@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>,
|> rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:
|> 
|> >non/copying message system. Standardized interprocess scripting language
|> 
|> Apple events are a standardized scripting language.  There are already multiple
|> front-ends that drive Apple event-aware applications.
|> 

No, this is wrong. Apple Events are a medium of communications- a bunch of
messages you can send [you can make up your own too] and a vehicle for
sending and receiving them.

A scripting language kinda needs little things like control structures,
variables, etc...

[deletia- Larry being right. :) ]

-- 
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone See the New Video from Def Lepord
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:27:23 GMT
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.

njg2@po.CWRU.Edu (J. Norell Guttman) writes:
>
>Hi Guyz and Girls:
>	Has anyone seen the new video "Adrenialize" from
>Def Leapord (I HATE HEAVY METAL MUSIC)!!!!!  However they
>had nice graphx which looked like something from Imagine
>or Lightwave 3D... anyone know what it was done with?
>

I believe you're talking about the song "Let's Get Rocked" from the new
Def Leppard album, "Adrenalize".  Great video!  I love it when the light
fixture "melts" and "pours" onto the drumset!  Anyway, when I watched
the video, I could have sworn that I saw, just for a fraction of a second,
a monitor screen with Silicon Graphics' 4DWM window manager running.
However, there were other scenes where you could see windows of a different
style, possible AmigaDOS.

BTW, you call *that* "heavy metal"?!

--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: "Room" for Windows
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:02:47 GMT

sck@watson.ibm.com (Scott C. Kennedy) writes:
: In article <1992Apr6.144908.27235@clipper.ingr.com>, kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
: |> Peanut #2: If Commodore has any patents/copyrights to multitasking
: |>            then perhaps now is the time to fire up the big
: |>            lawyers, and go for the jugular vein. (Or at least
: |>            license it out for an enormously fat fee. Perhaps
: |>            then we will see all those things the posters on
: |>            .advocacy dream about come true.)
: 
: I'm afraid that Commodore doesn't own any patents or copyrights to the idea o
: pre-emptive multi-tasking, but they were the first company to successfully se
: a low-end multi-tasking machine. For examples of other multi-tasking boxes, l
: at Mutlics, Unix, OS/9, VM, MVS, VMS, and others. All of which predate the 
: Amiga.

Perhaps the person above meant "screens" -> "Rooms" lawsuit...

Greg
-- 
 __________________________________________________________________________
|				     The Chesterfield Electronic Towel (TM)|
|gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu                    Don't leave Krikkit without it!|
|__________________________________________________________________________|
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:47:57 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

aissmith@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Doug Smith) writes:
>>>You're full of shit, Nishith.
>>>Admittedly I don't run a 16 colour workbench, but I have *NO* noticable
>>>delay on graphics when downloading.  Seeing as this mysterious person
>>
>>Cool off Doug.  You've jumped in late on a discussion that began weeks ago.
>>Nishith did not make up the original person or posting.
>
>But he's still full of shit.  [huffing and puffing deleted]

The only "shit" I see is that instead of running a 16-color workbench
to back up _your_ claims, you resorted to insulting this guy.  And while
personal slams seem to be common here lately, they never prove anything.

Most Amiga owners here are mature, intelligent people... and can give
decent arguments without bashing someone.  Try it, you might like it.
It's all up to you as to how you wish to be viewed.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:11961 comp.sys.amiga.misc:8153
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:07:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: ctr.1992Apr9.170711.9183
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
>>...if you look at the instruction sets of the two, you will see
>>the Motorola chip is in a very sorry state.
>
>If it is in such a sorry state, then why does my A3000 consistently perform
>better than a comparably equipped 386-25 PC clone?  You say the Motorola
>CPU sucks and the Amiga chipset sucks, yet the Intel based machine can not
>even hope to compete...
>

Well, if the Intel-based machine cannot even hope to compete, then why does
*my* 386 clone consistently perform better than a comparably equipped A3000?
Get the drift, Skip?  Your casual claim of Amiga superiority doesn't mean
squat without proof.

>
>Skip Sauls
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Chris Hurley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:50:11 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

-> From: Gerrit@laosinh.stgt.sub.org (Gerrit_Heitsch)
-> 
-> In article <1992Apr5.224121.13332@ctr.columbia.edu>, Jerry Shekhel writes:
-> 
-> > It could be, but IBM will supposedly attempt to change that view by bundling
-> > OS/2 with its home systems (PS/1's) and doing heavy advertising.
-> I thought OS/2 2.0 will only work on a 386/486 ?
-> The PS/1 is a 80286-10 with 1 waitstate. Do you want to run OS/2 on
-> such a slow processor ?
-> 

	OS/2 2 won't run on a 286, as far as I know.  The PS/1 Pro features
a 386sx processor, so with enough memory, it should run OS/2 2.  I believe
the PS/1 Pro ships with at least 4 megs.

+-------------------------------------+--------------------+
| " I'm ashamed but the fact is, I    |Chris Hurley,    // |
|   wish Pops let me off on the       |Augusta, GA     //  |
|   mattress!"  - Ice Cube            |U S A         \X/   |
+-----+-----------------------------------------+----------+
      |  Internet: mr_scary@lakes.trenton.sc.us |
      +-----------------------------------------+

---
 * AME 1.07 * Keyboard Failure.  Press F1 to continue.
From: jayson@tbag.UUCP (Jayson Phillips)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: re: I Dream of New Amigas
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:34:01 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

>From: marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn)
>Subject: I dream of new Amigas
>Date: 10 Mar 92 14:44:18 GMT
>
>There seems to be a general train of thought running through advocacy at
>the moment which seems to say be constructive rather than bitch.  With
>this in mind here is the specification of my ideal A500:
>
>16MHz 68030 + 16Mhz 68882, 2Mb of main memory, 2Mb chip or video,
>Graphics: 1024x768 16bit graphics using new 32bit 16MHz Coprocessors,
>Audio: 16 channel 16 bit with a DSP, internal sampler,
>Ports & Expansion: Single internal ZorroIII (IV?) + Video slot, SCSI II
>                  port, internal Ethernet support.
>Operating System: Internal support for RTG, support for the MMU, the 
>                 inclusion of Soft-Logiks Hotlinks system in addition
>                 to Arexx.
>
>I don't really have time to elaborate on this any further just now, but
>does anybody out there care to propose their dream Amiga?
>
>Just curious,
>            Mark
>
> 
>-- 
>? A little nonsense now and then,                  ? Mark Steyn :          ?
>?                    Is relished by the wisest men ? marks@castle.ed.ac.uk ?
>? Gene Wilder: Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory ? mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     ?
 
Ideal A500?  Give me a break this system is already out there.  It's called
the Amiga 3000.  By the time the A500 (or what ever) comes stock with a
68030 and 16 bit audio there will be an Amiga 5000 with a 68050 :)  There's
nothing wrong with the specs just that the A500 has always been aimed at the
entry level, or low-end market.  You have to remeber that the more you put
into a system the more it will cost.  Why heck, my ideal Amiga would, at this
point in time, have a 33Mhz 68040, dual channel 16 bit audio,  8 bit plane
color with option for 24 bit color, 32MB RAM, 600MB hard disk, and a 20MB
floptical.  All currently possible.  Problem? It would cost $10K or more.
 
                            _        _   _   _   _
  Jay Phillips  /\  |\/| | / _  /\   _) / \ / \ / \ 68030/68882-25MHz
  Tampa FL USA /--\ |  | | \_/ /--\  _) \_/ \_/ \_/ 6MB-RAM   Q105-HD
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  USENET: tbag!jayson@uunet.uu.net                GENIE: B.Phillips13
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:52:45 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr11.052921.21547@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
> In article <1992Apr10.213210.5408@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:

>>Perhaps the 386 falls faster from a 2nd story window.
> 
> mean anything. How dare you claim that the speed of a 386 is any different
> than an A3000 when dropped from a 2nd story window...they both accelerate
> at 9.8 meters per second, which is around 32 feet per second!
> 
> (:

Well, in fact they both don't accelerate exactly at the same speed as there is
something called air between them and ground. Also if the second floor winfow
from where we drop the 386 is 10 m from ground and the other second floor
window we drop the A3000 (who drops an A3000 from window? It's damn too
expensive to drop them from windows :) is 11 m from ground....

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Subject: 040 and 486
Summary: speed of 040 vs. 486 with 128k cache
Keywords: 68040,80486,486,040,benchmarks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 19:56:29 GMT

The following are a series of benchmarks performed on a 25 MHz 040 with
128K external cache and a 25 MHz 486 with 128K external cache.

Benchmark	040 128K cache		486 128K cache

Integer:
gcc		13.8			13.8
espresso	13.4			12.2
li		15.5			16.8
eqntott		9.8			11.0

FP:
spice2g6	13.1			8.8
doduc		8.1			5.8
nasa7		12.1			5.8
matrix 300	11.5			9.5
fpppp		13.4			7.0
tomcatv		9.1			4.3

These tests show what I have said before, that the 486 is marginally faster
than the 040 at the same speed on integer, and that the 040 a little more
than 1.5 times the speed of the 486 on FP, which means that the 50 MHz 486
will be faster. 040's without caches, common on the Amiga, will do a little
worse than the results shown here.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Will the Blitter become redundant?
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:29:26 GMT

cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
: In article <1992Apr7.140540.11864@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
: >Not even the 040 can outperform the blitter in all cases.  Not even in
: >most cases.
: 
: What is this based on?  Remember that the 040 is much faster than an 030.
:  
: >Greg

It's based on me being curious and doing all conceivable blits, on an
040 and the blitter on a 3000 system.  The blitter won. 
Can't remember times, though.  If I can get a hold of him, I'll run it
through again, and post times.

Greg
-- 
 __________________________________________________________________________
|				     The Chesterfield Electronic Towel (TM)|
|gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu                    Don't leave Krikkit without it!|
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 03:52:38 GMT

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>> Of course I read the whole post.  Of course a 486 system is cheaper than an
>> equivalent A3000.  If you cannot afford an A3000, then don't buy one.  If you
>> do not like the Amiga, then ignore it.  Simple.
>> 
>	Why is the A3000 so expensive though?  I wanted to upgrade to it from
>  my A500 but the 486 was just to good of a deal.  Commodore has the low end
>  priced very well, why isn't the high end a better deal?  

Yes, that is a good question.  It is one I cannot answer without using some
less than complementary remarks about Commodore's management.  I would love
to able to afford an A3000 with 28MHz 040, 24-bit graphics, and a 16-bit
audio board.  I cannot, so I may well get a 50MHz 486.  Intel PC prices are
dropping too fast to resist.  Too bad, though; I want an Amiga.

-- Gerald
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:12418 comp.sys.amiga.games:6828 comp.sys.amiga.misc:8404 comp.sys.amiga.multimedia:815 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:3626 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:8715
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: 12 Apr 92 06:08:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.7459
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:
>>tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>>>	(for the record, I also only have a A1000 from the 85/86 days)
>>>
>>>	And I can honestly say that there are almost no programs that
>>>make use of any feature I don't have.
>>>
>>>	Yeah - here's something to be proud of! ( 1/2 :-) )
>>
>>Um... let's see here, i'll start naming them off the top of my head.
>>
>>ProVideo Post (requires 1 meg chip ram)
>>Duluxe Paint (uses extra halfbrite)
>>Prowrite 3.2 (has 256 color modes)
>>Art Department Pro (has 256 color, Ham8, and other modes)
>>Scala (uses 1280x200/400 modes and productivity modes i believe)
>>Deluxe Paint IV (has 256 color, Ham8 and other modes)
>>The countless number of PD, Shareware and Commercial programs that are either
>>2.0 ONLY or have extended features under 2.0 such as
>>Prowrite 3.2, TurboText, Cygnus Ed, BBX, WShell 2.0, PowerPacker 4.0a, etc..
>>etc.. etc..  
>>
>>And this is off the top of my head.  Most of these are MAJOR apps too.
>
>Curious.  How do you know his A1000 does not have these features?  There are
>many upgrade paths for the A1000, including replacing its motherboard with
>an A2000-type board.

He didn't say he had upgraded.  He said his 1000 was from 85/86.  Although a
late 86 1000 would have extra half brite, one from 85 would not.  If he had
upgraded his motherboard, then the machine would not be from 85/86, it would
be a 1000 CASE with a 91 motherboard.  Also, the same argument would hold true
in the reverse if you were to replace an 1982 PC with a 1992 486DX
motherboard.  IF he had upgraded, his argument would be moot, because the
whole point of the statement was trying to say that his 1985 1000 could do
everything that new amigas can today.  Which it obviously cannot.

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Graphics boards
Organization: James Cook University, North Queensland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 06:10:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.054249.13931@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>
>>>Yeah, but the DMI uses a 34010 (TI) CPU, and the clones use the old
>>>charlie-cha-wa graphics chip.

[No he didn't, Matt Crowd wrote that.  If you include quotes from other
people make you you get the author correct]

>Ooooh! For graphics cards with a coprocessor for the IBM, the 34010 is the
>lower end processor. The cards frequently use the 34020 or the s3, which is faster than the 34020.
>

You are right for a change here Nish.  You cannot compare the DMI to
a SVGA card.  People should be comparing the DMI with similar graphics
cards for the PC which are usually 34020 based.  The Amiga has no
equivalent of an SVGA card (ie. similarly priced and works with most
software).

>Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

-- 
Colin Adams         Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
I've seen you smile, but I've never really heard you laugh.  So who is rich
and who is poor I cannot say. - The Smiths
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Resolver Workbench (was WB2.1)
From: sbiddle@aviate.cavebbs.gen.nz (Steve Biddle)
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:10:21 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Steves Amiga - Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr8.145603.14029@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan) writes:
>In article <472@kas.helios.mn.org>rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey) writes:
>>
>>	Maybe the 256 palette support is for THIRD PARTY products so they
>>	can integrate their lines into AmigaDOS graphics easier?
>
>On a similar note, could any of the current Resolver users clarify the extent
>to which DMI's 'Resolver Workbench' can be used? According to a developer
>distribution I just received, this facility makes provisions for running a
>high resolution Workbench on the Resolver. Applications such as Pro Page and
>PageStream are specifically mentioned to run in conjunction with the Resolver
>Workbench to provide a 1280 x 1024 full-page display. Apparently 'many other'
>applications also take advantage of this environment.

I gather that it's simply using the feature of many programs to use the
WB screen instead of a custom one. Many apps have the option, and quite
simply have instant use of the resolver, but would still be limited in
colours, unless they had direct SAGE support.


--
 -------------------------------------------------------------
 Steven Biddle	     -	   Mail: sbiddle@aviate.cavebbs.gen.nz
 Wellington, New Zealand.    OR: BIDDLE_S@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
 -------------------------------------------------------------