HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu (Michael T. Itamura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: U.C. Evacuation Class of 1942
Date: 9 Sep 92 06:27:17 GMT
Reply-To: mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu (Michael T. Itamura)
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

I just received some information that might be of interest to bay area
SCAAers.

The Berkeley Convocation is scheduled for September 16th at 3:30pm
at Zellerbach Auditorium on the campus of the University of California.  

In addition to Nobel Laureate Glenn Seaborg,  Dr. Harvey Itano will be
speaking at the convocation.  Dr. Itano was the University Medalist
(graduated at the top of his class) in the evacuation class of 1942.
Many of the Japanese American members of this class were evacuated during
their final semester at Cal and were able to complete the required classes
for their degrees while at Assembly centers located in places like
Tanforan or Stockton.  [For those of you who have read 'Desert Exile,'
the author Yoshiko Uchida was also a member of the class of '42] 

A panel discussion with four members of the evacuation class - Mr. Eugene
Kono, Dr. Harvey Itano, Mr. Barry Saiki, and Mrs. Chizu Iiyama - will take
place at the Alumni House at 10:30 am on September 16th.  They will discuss
their experiences on the Berkeley campus and the process of their
evacuation from Berkeley.
	
			Mike Itamura
			mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:27:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.212324.19675@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> In article <edcheng.1dl2@terapin.com> edcheng@terapin.com (Edmund Cheng)
> writes:
> >...
> >        I know many Chinese-Americans... Some which have no Chinese "culture"
> >in them.  The only thing that distinguishes them from any caucasian is their
> >last names and their faces.  This scares me.
> 
> This is a ridiculous comment, but then Mr. Cheng is Chinese-cu.

     Oh, Christ, not again . . .

> Being Chinese-cu has nothing to do with being Chinese-ge.  Only a
> racist would think that there's something unnatural about
> Chinese-(ge)-Americans "who have no Chinese 'culture' in them".
> Racists think that genes determine behavior; one such racist
> is Mr. Wilbur Pan (u58402@uicvm.uic.edu).

     Dwight, you do know what they say about people who live in glass
houses . . .

> >I don't want to lose my
> >"identity", my language..I want to be Chinese.
> 
>  [ More of the usual Dwight Droppings (TM) deleted. ]

     Just ignore this person, Edmund.  To very briefly bring you up to
speed, Dwight Joe is a person who strongly despises all aspects of
Chinese culture (Chinese-cu), and calls for its complete obliteration.
To the common dismay and disgust of SCAA, he continues to spout his
peculiar brand of hatred seeking to upset anyone of Chinese upbringing
merely because he hates all things Chinese.

     The one and sole redeeming aspect of his postings has been in
introduction of a particularly useful terminology:

	Chinese-cu (Chinese culture, ie. things taught); 

	Chinese-ge (Chinese genetics, ie. things biologically inherited);

	Chinese-ci (Chinese citizenship, ie. national allegiance).

     Despite the usefulness of this terminology, you should not mistake
it's usage as agreement of any sort with any other Dwight Droppings.

> A Chinese-ge can select the heritage that he wants.  He can select
> only the heritage that he wants even if that means excluding Chinese
> culture completely.

     Now there's a revealing statement.  Trying to obliterate all
signs of the Chinese heritage of which you're so ashamed, Dwight?


						George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:21:35 GMT

>|> Does anybody know how to make a kill file for the Nuntius newsreader for the 
>|> Macintosh?  I've guess I have had enough of underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU .
> ...
>I'd also like to share the information!

One word of caution: if you do that, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU is very
capable of starting dauting lie in the net against you and you won't 
know about it until later time.  

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU which is e-address of Dwight Joe, has accused 
me of using racial slur jap against him while I had him in my kill file 
and when I found about it days later, I challenged him to produce some 
evidence (for example, e-address from where I supposedly did use racial 
slur jap against Dwight Joe), and I am still waiting.  Just in case D.Joe
might claim having had my name in his kill file, I once emailed him my
challenge, and I am still waiting.

So my word of caution is: be careful with lies Dwight Joe spread in the net
especialy if one has him in kill file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re:    An interesting movie: ``Iron Maze''
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:07:44 GMT

In article <92259.150032ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu>, <ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> I just saw the movie ``Iron Maze'' when I was flapping channels
> last night.  It's a story about the attempted murder of a Japanese
> businessman with a blonde wife in Pittsburgh --- I guess a lot of
> you will be interested.  It will be shown again on Cinemax at 8pm
> this coming Sunday (I'm not sure if you can find it in video stores).

     Could you post details of the incident?  I don't have cable or a
VCR.  (In fact, my television barely works.)  I'm a native of Steeltown,
and I don't believe I've ever heard the story.

							George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:13:11 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Sep7170618@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>This is not a word game that I'm playing with you -- the fact that you
>consider yourself a foreigner living in this country makes a big difference
>in how you view the world and how I should view you. 

1. Where did I say I considered myself a "foreigner"?  All I said was
that I considered myself a Chinese with American citizenship. Why does
that make me a "foreigner"?  

2. Why should it make that much of a difference in how you view me?
Are my opinions somehow less valid because I like speaking in
Mandarin?  Should I be ignored because I like to argue politics and
culture in soc.culture.china and soc.culture.taiwan?

3. Are you implying that it would be impossible for me to be a "real
Asian-American" or a "true American" without large changes to my world
view?  If so, where does this "diversity" thing, fit in?

>Being technically "American", and considering oneself to be "American" 
>are two very different things.

Are you trying to say that citizenship isn't enough to be a "true
American", and that being a "true American" means that you have to
talk a certain way, act a certain way, and think a certain way and
that if you talk, act, or think any differently, you can be excluded
from the group of "true Americans" regardless of what your citizenship
is?

Forgive me for being confused, but isn't that the attitude which you
are supposedly fighting against?

And isn't that a rather dangerous attitude?  First it's "Chinese with
American citizenship aren't real Americans."  Then it's "Communists
aren't real Americans."  Finally, it's "People who don't support the
REAL AMERICAN PARTY, aren't real Americans."



Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.discrimination
From: shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin)
Subject: Re: "Chinese-Americans..."
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:17:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.102630.17409@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>me?  Is that racist?  I don't think so.  Mr. Cheng ISN'T saying, gee,
>>Chinese-Americans who can't fluently read Ancient Chinese are betraying
>>their culture because they are ethnically Chinese and HAVE to read ancient
>>Chinese; THAT would be racist.  He's just commenting on what's important 
>>TO HIM.
>
>Yes, he is commenting on what's important to him, but he also
>makes a value judgement on the behavior of other people.  His statement
>asserts that he is scared at seeing Chinese-ge people who have no
>Chinese-cu culture (but only have American culture) in them.
>
>That's racist.  I see no reason whatsoever why "normalcy",

Congrats, D.Joe, you just showed what kind of consideration you give to
a high school student (that is *high* *school* student, for Christs sake!!!)
who probably was trying to test his cultural baggage, a duality bestowed 
upon him by circumstances!  Go ahead, D.Joe, any person should be stompped 
to pancages as long as they dare to dare ridiculous -cu, -ge and -ci 
wobblings by you D.Joe.  Take on someone of your size, D.Joe.  And still 
I am waiting to hear from you when and how did I use racial slur jap and 
jap wannabe, as you accused me of in the net (ignored my email, hein?).

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: "Asian-Americans..."
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:55:12 GMT

-
     Relax, Edmund.  On the net, not everyone will agree with you, and
some will criticize you quite harshly.  This doesn't mean you are wrong,
merely that someone disagrees with you.  In SCAA, you'll find a very
diverse group of people who've been raised in every mix of Asian and
American culture.  The range of experiences and opinions extends
farther than any group of people I've personally known.

     In this case, I actually happen to agree with Dwight Joe, or at
least, his distinctions of Chinese-ge and Chinese-cu.  Many AAs simply
never had the chance to learn much about their heritage.  I'm one of
them, and I sorely regret it.

     However, despite my personal opinions on your post, I find it
particularly offensive that Dwight Joe has seen fit to respond to you,
an admitted newcomer to SCAA, with his usual hatred in all it's vitriol.

							George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8821 ca.politics:7469 soc.culture.african.american:9208
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:31:43 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <YAMAUCHI.92Sep6011353@sartre.ces.cwru.edu> yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:
>Are you saying that you're a Chinese citizen, ethnically Chinese, or
>culturally Chinese?  

Ethnically, I'm Chinese.  Culturally, I'm Chinese with heavy American
influences.  I'm an American citizen, because I was born here.

>If you're an American citizen of Asian descent,
>then you're an Asian-American, regardless of anything else.

If that's the definition of Asian-American, then "O.K, I'm
Asian-American."  For a while, I was being led to believe that
Asian-American meant something else.







Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Dictators Re: Please educate this man
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<7917@public.BTR.COM>
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:47:03 GMT

   timlee@public.btr.com writes:

   mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
   |2. A common claim by dictators (especially in East Asia) is that
   |democracy is not one of their cultural values, and that the people
   |have no interest in ruling themselves.  Do you believe this?  How do
   |you distinguish between a case where this is true and one where it is
   |a cynical fabrication by the dictator?  

   In this situation, it is obvious that the dictator's cultural values
   include an interest in rulership, which means either (1) the dictator's
   claim is false, or (2) the dictator does not share the cultural values
   of the people being ruled, which contradicts the "self-determination"
   claims made by many governments.

Sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning here.  You may be right, but
it's not "obvious", at least to me.  The dictator's interest in
rulership reveals nothing as far as I can tell.

There was a time in Europe when both ruler and ruled believed in the
Divine Right of kings; the idea of "self-determination" is of
relatively recent origin.  It seems plausible that both ruler and
ruled in some East Asian societies genuinely believe Confucian ideas
that emphasize order and stability, with a willingness to accept the
current ruler as "mandated by heaven".  You have said nothing that
makes it possible to distinguish this case from one in which the
people actually want to choose their rulers in some fashion, but are
prevented from expressing this wish.

You seem to be claiming that democracy is self-evidently a universal
value; that's fine if you want to claim it, but some people would
disagree with that view.  

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Please educate this man
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:53:58 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill) writes:

   If Judy Mann had called me, I would have suggested that
   multiculturalism is explicitly wrong, because it denies
   the superiority of Western values as a way of life for
   humans (in effect, setting up situational
   ethics relativism for cultures).

   -- Newt Gingrich
      Republican Whip
      U.S. Representative (R-Ga.)

      From a letter to the Washington Post Sept 2, 1992

Now look, Newt Gingrich is a particularly pathetic specimen, but he's
actually stumbling across a real and hard problem (probably
inadvertently).  What do you do when there's a conflict between
different cultural values?  Do you really believe that all questions
of right and wrong can be understood in terms of cultural relativism?

Examples: 

1. There are parts of the world where slavery is practiced today.  Is
slavery OK in some circumstances?  How about human sacrifice?

2. A common claim by dictators (especially in East Asia) is that
democracy is not one of their cultural values, and that the people
have no interest in ruling themselves.  Do you believe this?  How do
you distinguish between a case where this is true and one where it is
a cynical fabrication by the dictator?  

3. Should members of African tribes living in the U.S. be allowed to
perform clitoridectomies on infant girls?  If not, why not?  How does
this relate to the acceptance of circumcision in the U.S.?

4. What's an appropriate age of consent for young men?  For young
women?  And why?

The one advantage of the Newt Gingrich point of view is that you have
answers to all of these questions, based on the belief that "Western"
values are intrinsically correct.  If we want a multicultural society
in the U.S. in any sense other than having a thin veneer of
"sensitivity training" on top of today's society, we'll have to come
up with some other way of resolving these sorts of issues.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....)
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:55:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.234536.23535@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.162735.28190@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
>I get the feeling we're talking past each other.  Let's try this once
>more.  What I am fuzzy on are these "sociological and cultural products
>of Asians living in the States".  Are there any other products other
>than victimization and discrimination?

	Do we need to go any farther than this?

	Discrimination and racism have far-reaching impacts on a group. It
changes cultural values, economic standing and cultural expression. One can
look at the immigrant generations of the early Chinese and Japanese and see
what they were (for example, earlier Chinese were quite outspoken and rebel-
lious [quite natural, given how many of them were rebels]), yet the suceeding
generations of Chinese Americans have been quite distinct and have more
in common with succeeding generations of Japanese Americans (wo, in themselves,
are quite distinct from Isseis). I think it is no accident that these groups
share a lot of cultural elements and values.

	Given todays much less restrictive climate (in absolute and relative
terms), its anyoneUs guess if the distinctiveness of Asian Americans will
be as strong. But make no mistake about it-the forces of marginalization are
still there (and always have been for immigrant groups).

 


-- 
Roger Tang gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu
Executive Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW;
	The definition of having balls is a non-singer who goes karaoke singing 
with the cast of a musical revue.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:00:56 GMT

In article <SHAW.92Sep7170618@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu>
shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>[nonsense deleted to save bandwidth]
>I am about equally
>certain that you and Dwight Joe are of Chinese ancestry and living in
>America, and what Dwight considers himself makes a big difference in how I
>view his statements and actions.
>[nonsense deleted to save bandwidth]

Frankly, I don't even know why the hell my name even appears in this post.
I've never met Mr. Shaw, and he has never met me.

It's very Chinese-cu of him to try and pin an ancestry on me.  Very
Chinese-cu indeed.

I have been, am, and always shall be an American.  I despise those
values and beliefs that contradict compassion, understanding, and
fundamental human decency.  A fine example of values that I despise
are those that rear its ugly head in Chinese-cu culture and society.
I repeat myself in this paragraph since I'm only restating what I
said before.

Just so this post is not a zero content post, I'll add the following.
As an American, I urge the readers of this post to support the following:

(1) American and Japanese participation in the RimPac 92 military exercises,
    which will serve to hem Chinese-cu military ambitions (especially its
    intent to storm Taiwan if the peaceful Taiwanese people declare 
    independence)
(2) Amnesty International's attempt to end human rights abuses
    (especially in Tibet, where the Chinese-ge executed millions to
    subjugate Tibet under the yoke of Chinese-cu b*llsh*t)
(3) efforts to bring together abandoned infants and Western parents
    --like Irish-American parents, Japanese-American parents, etc.
    (especially those infant girls abandoned by their Chinese-cu parents
    to die because they wanted a boy)  Let's show those Chinese-cu
    "parents" a bigger heart than their pea-brains can conjure, shall
    we?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: "Rasie the Red Lattern"  was Re: Rapid Fire (probable spoilers)
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 23:08:15 GMT

In article <13795.2ab4d17c@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>[story in "Raise the Red Lantern"]
>I agree. It coud have happened in any countries. 

The film illustrates the oppressive condition for women in China.
It is far worse in China than in the USA.  To say that those
conditions are equally true in both the USA and China is to
out rightly lie about the _degree_ of severity.

Women in Chinese society have been treated like dirt for a long time.
This applies principally to women in the underclasses, which is
almost everybody in Chinese society.

>However, I was very depressed after the movie.
>Does anyone know why the film was banned in china several years ago?

According to Siskel & Ebert, the film was also banned by the Chinese
government on Taiwan.  Both gov'ts sought to hide any revealing look
at the state of Chinese society; much of the conditions that existed
at the time of the film still exist today.

Just remember this film when you Westerners attend "Chinese-cu culture
day" at places like your local university or community center.  You
will learn about things like Chinese-cu cooking--i.e. basically
superficial things that indicate nothing whatsoever about what
Chinese culture and society has been and still is.  Do yourselves
a favor.  Watch the film.  Learn about things that are _never_
mentioned during "Chinese-cu culture day".

After that, read some Western sources about Chinese society.
You'll learn that during the Ming Dynasty, astronomers at
an ancient astronomical observatory (that still stands in Beijing)
urged the government to adopt the superior Western calendar
and certain other Western advancements and that all those astronomers
were subsequently executed.  (source: PBS)  In those days,
the law forbid the public in general from studying astronomy--a real
science, but astrology--hocus pocus--was popular and was enjoyed by
all.  (source: "Planetary Exploration")  Well, so much for the myth
that education is a special part of Chinese culture.

Another interesting film to see is "The Killing Fields".  It illustrates
the hideous slaughter of innocent people by Pol Pot and his
regime (Khmer Rouge?).  Note that the Chinese have been funneling
weapons to him and his group for quite some time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------