HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publisher production times
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:58:06 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

charless@sco.COM (charles stross) writes:


>It used to be twelve months from contract to publication, but 
>now it's stretching to two, two-and-a-half years. 

>Does anyone have any insight on this?

For your information, my computer has generated these statistics:
 
The last  1456  publishers to look at my work have averaged  2.1 months
deciding.
 
The last  440  to publish my work have averaged  6.7 months between
acceptance and publication.

As of today, editors have published  921  of my works.

By 09-01-1992,  52  (35.6%) of  146  rejectors this year have been delinquent.
    (i.e., have waited over 3 months to decide).

By 09-01-1992,  21  (14.4%) of  146  rejectors this year have responded 
    w/i 2 weeks

At the end of 1991 33.3% had been delinquent for that year, and 11.1% had 
responded within two weeks; cf. 33.1% to 20.0% in 1990....

(My_Agent, the program that provides these for me, manages circulations,
bibliographies, etc. for hundreds of others as well.  Send private e-mail
to request information if you think it could be of use to you. -- Louie)


-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                    Heteroprivilege is against New Jersey law!
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Ross Reports...
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:12:35 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

In article <Sep.12.18.03.41.1992.9737@remus.rutgers.edu> bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort) writes:
>
>  Has anyone here seen/used the booklet put out every
> month called ROSS REPORTS for the television industry?
> I would like to know if you found it useful.
>

If anyone knows where one could find it, either in the Washington, DC area,
or even an adress that I could wrute to for a subscription, it would be
greatly appreciated!!!!

--Karen
From: jae@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Wanted - resources on the Aztecs
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:51:09 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Greetings!

I've been corresponding with the gentleman who found the fascinating book
on the Aztecs, and he told me that many of you were kind enough to forward
*your* bibliographies to him.

I also am using the Aztecs as a background for a project and would be very
appreciative if those of you with resources (preferably in English, for I
am, alas, language impaired and speak only French and English) would be
kind enough to share them with me.

In return I'd be happy to compile all of the bibliographies into one and 
ship them off to everyone who contributed.

My thanks,

Jae Walker
jae@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
****
jae@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu -- DRYCAS|jae@ais.org                 -- UMCC  
jwalker@isis.cs.du.edu     -- Nyx   |au221@cleveland.freenet.edu -- Freenet
jae@ap.cl.msu.edu          -- UMCC  |70541.3370@CompuServe.COM   -- CompuServe
****
Just because you're a vampire, it doesn't mean you're not a nice person...
From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Creativity space-out
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:38:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Ojvind,


It seems to me that you have stumbled onto stream of consciousness writing.  No , I do not think that you are wacko!  I think that the best thing to do would be to take a copy of the story with you if you go over to a friends place and show him/her your work, and get some feedback.

I do that all the time, when I really hit upon a good idea and crank out something that I just can't stop thinking about, I take it with me.

Chris Tsirbas
tsirbac@brise.ere.umontreal.ca
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Editing on Computer or Hardcopy
Date: 9 Sep 1992 10:17:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, troyer@mitre.org (Tom Royer) says:

>I edit hardcopy just to keep my klutzy fingers away from the keyboard
>until I've thought about the changes for a while.  I might consider editing
>"typos" on-line, but the temptation to make substantive (and usually
>ill-considered) changes is too strong. 



Yeah, I've wondered why the computer columnist for Writer's Digest is so
hot on saving what you have every few minutes.  I have a backup that does
that, to a separate file (and very useful, too), but he talks as if he
means saving -over- your original.

One of the things I like about word processors is that you can fiddle
around with your ms.  -without- affecting the original version, there on
the disk.  Then you can save STORY.2 or STORY.TOO or whatever, and have
time to think.  You can also save those beautiful but irrelevant paragraphs
you cut (STORY.CUT), and fool yourself into thinking you'll use them later. 

This is especially useful for poems.  I often wind up with dozens of
versions on paper and eight or ten on disk, fiddling here and there, and
printing out one-word changes to read aloud.  It's a mess, but an easily
cleaned-up one at the end, and it's such a security blanket. 



Bonita Kale
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 18:56:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling) says:

 Greene must have written his
>childrens stuff very late in life. What I know of him, he probably
>wrote them in response (semi-reluctant?) to requests to tell his
>grandchildren stories ("You're a writer aren't you?")
>I certainly wouldn't sell him short though. For my money Graham Greene
>is amongst the best (and also my inspiration). However, I very much
>suspect that he would not have called his children's work 'serious',
>as he distinguished his 'entertainments' from 'serious novels'.


I was in my mid-forties before I realized that perfectly nice people, whom
one could enjoy talking to, used the term "serious writing" without meaning
it in jest.  I had taken it for granted that a person who aimed at "art" or
"seriousness" was a figure of fun.

I still object very strongly to the notion that some of us are "serious"
while the rest are making rude noises to amuse the masses (who obviously
cannot like anything good).  But I am willing to acknowledge that writing
may be untainted by the idiotic notions of the writer, even by that
particular idiotic notion. 


Bonita Kale



Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Publisher production times
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:17:49 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <1992Sep07.081951.5496@sco.COM>, charless@sco.COM (charles stross) writes:
|
|I heard from my editor last Friday to the effect that my first
|novel, which I was made an offer for in March this year, will not
|now be published until March-April 1994. Aside from the obvious
|(why does it TAKE so LONG?), this leads me to ask; is it my
|imagination, or is the lead time on the midlist growing longer
|for everyone? I'm not the only author I know who this has happened
|to. It used to be twelve months from contract to publication, but
|now it's stretching to two, two-and-a-half years.
|
|Does anyone have any insight on this?

I have some guesses, and if I can get hold of any of my old publishing
contacts I'll see if I can confirm them.

When I worked in publishing (1981-1988) one of the largest variable-
cost items (that is, items that cost more when you print more copies,
versus fixed-cost items, that cost the same no matter how many copies
you print) was the paper.  You could significantly reduce the overall
cost of a book by waiting for favorable prices in the paper market,
which rose and fell dramatically.  Profit margins on books are narrower
now than ever, and are always narrower on short-run books than on
long-run books.

Thus, it is possible that publishers are extending the lead time on
shorter-run books (i.e., not the Stephen King novels) in hopes of
catching a favorable paper price that will allow them to make a profit.

Another possibility is that publishers are cutting the length of their
lists.  Blockbuster bestsellers used to carry quite a few mid-list books
along with them.  If the number of mid-list books being published per
year is being reduced, and the number of saleable manuscripts coming in
is not, then the backlog is growing.  Perhaps you should take the
increased lead time as one of Len Olszewski's judo compliments--they
liked your book so much they just had to have it, even though they're
already committed up to March-April 1994.

Consider: if I had only a single manuscript to produce, I didn't care
about catching cheap paper prices or printer slack time for a discount,
and the author was cooperative about checking page proofs, to turn a
clean manuscript into a book would take me 2 to 3 months.  If I wanted
to throw some serious money at the problem I could do it even faster.

In a real-world situation, with a full workload, figure more like 9
months.  So if the publisher is saying 2 years, they're sitting on the
book for some reason.  Why don't you call your publisher, ask to speak
to the head of the Production Department, and ask him or her why the
lead time has increased?  If you sound curious rather than well-peeved,
you might get a civil answer.  Mention how much you like the way their
books look and you almost certainly will.  You would have from me, when
I was in the business.


-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
From: bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: A GREAT Scriptwriting Book...
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:01:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  For those of you interested in scriptwriting who
don't know about it, there is an EXCELLENT book 
available on all types of scriptwriting (for film,
TV, the theatre, and more.)  The author is J. Michael
Straczynski, and it's called THE COMPLETE BOOK OF
SCRIPTWRITING.  (It even has a section on how to
write for radio.)  I HIGHLY recommend it.  He's 
even got a sense of humor. :)

  -Tony
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ojvind@plato.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Subject: Creativity space-out
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:47:27 GMT

No, this is not another lamentation about writer's block,
but rather the opposite:  creativity.

I just had a spate of creativity today and cranked out
1300 words, nearly finishing a short story.  I've found
that after spending a couple of ours deeply involved in
my world, I find it hard to socialize.  That's right.
I'll go to a bbq and my story will be the foremost thing
on my mind, and I can't really say, "Hey, Albert, guess
what, Harmon killed the tentactled alien only to find
that it was his father in disguise!"  In other words,
a period of introvertedness usually follows.

So, is this just me, or what?  It makes we wonder about my
dreams to become a great writer...

-- Ojvind Bernander
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Date: 8 Sep 1992 10:22:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu




In a previous article, ehudon@reed.edu (Elizabeth Hudon) says:
>
>Second, I'd like to heartily agree with the assessment that writing
>for children is difficult. I've continued reading "children's"  and
>"young adult" fiction, and a good friend of mine is a chiildren's 
>librarian who has been on several Newbery and Caldecott medal commit-
>tees. Children's books are frequently (IMHO) better written than "adult"
>fiction. Children demand a good, solid story with clear characterization.
>
>It often seems that writers of children's books aren't taken seriously
>as writers--as though it was a step on the way to becoming a "real"
>writer. (There's even a branch of feminist theory which argues that
>women writers were pushed to write children's fiction because it was
>easier to do than "serious" writing.)


Writing for children is not easier; as someone pointed out (but I can't
give the exact reference), what it is, is shorter.  Like a short story or a
novelet, a children's book is brief (and getting briefer every year),
focused, and uncluttered.  There's no room for much in the way of subplots
or discursion.  Some people like this; others prefer to write 100,000 words
and leave an opening for Book Two.

In my (somewhat limited) experience, writing a 25,000 or 30,000 word
children's novel takes a lot more time than writing an equal wordage of
adult short stories.  But it doesn't take as much time as writing an adult
novel.

I think maybe if you like to weave, adult novels are easier.  If you like
to prune, children's may be the way to go.


Bonita Kale
From: bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Ross Reports...
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:03:41 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  Has anyone here seen/used the booklet put out every
 month called ROSS REPORTS for the television industry?
 I would like to know if you found it useful.

  Thanks,


    -Tony
From: at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publisher production times
Date: 12 Sep 1992 12:33:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


An acquaintance of mine is awaiting the publishing of his biography
of Flo Ziegfeld. It's a very high quality coffee table book and it
has been in the publisher's hands for 2.5 years now. He just recently
got back his proofs and was told to cut 25 percent of the lines
because the book would run an extra signature without the cuts and
would boost the cost of the book from the $50 to $75 range.

There was also trouble with the dust jacket design, they couldn't
get the ink to stick on the metallic foil background on some parts.
So it went back to the art deparment for 6 months.

BTW, most of his advance (five figures) has been eaten away in
research, long distance calls, and photo acquisition rights.

Thus the glamor of publishing. And who wouldn't trade places with
him?

-- 
"It's money, and adventure, and fame. It's the thrill of a
lifetime.  And a long sea voyage that starts at six o'clock
come morning."
     -- Carl Denham, "King Kong"
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao)
Subject: screenwriting
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:11:19 GMT


I have been trying to learn about screenwriting lately and I just discovered
this newsgroup, and I want to say I have learned as much from reading
10-15 articles on here as I did from the goofy scriptwriting books for
which I paid $7.95. This leads to my first question: what do you read
after Syd Field's standard book? I skimmed through three others and they
seemed almost exactly the same.
I think what I most need to know is how writers do their top-down work. that
is, suppose you have a general idea of what is going to happen in a scene
and what characters are in it. How do you go from that do the specifics?
Do writers sometimes roleplay their characters to come up with dialogue?
I wish the screenwriting books I'd read had more about specifics about this.

Can someone tell me what Robert Towne did to the Godfather?
-- 
Robert Chao
Oakland, California
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:28:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.185620.2023@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon) writes:
>
>
>I am kind of tossing the idea of writing and illustrating a children's book
>around...  Anyone know if what kind of formats illustrations and such are
>submitted to publishing companies?  I'd appreciate it if persons of experience
>could email me!

Well, my experience is limited.  I started writing children's tales
last winter, and only 10 days ago finally mailed a story (1000 words)
to a publisher.  This stuff goes WAY beyond tossing an idea around.

The first step:  go to the library.  Find books on children's writing.
Read them.  Go to the children's section, and look at what types of
books are there.  Read them too.  Note what publishers do what type of
books (check year of publication, this changes).  Talk to the librarian
in the children's section, and ask to see the book lists from the
various publishers - what they've recently published.  She can probably
recommend a book listing publishers, esp. publishers accepting
unsollicited material.

How are your writing skills?  Children's writing leaves no room for
error, for vague writing, for anything less than total clarity and
smooth flow.  Look for books on writing, and read them too.  And don't
forget to get a good style book, and a good dictionary, and keep them
at your side as you're writing.  Use them, constantly.  Then, when
you've written something you think is good enough, find a critic.
Friends and relatives are usually poor critics - they don't know the
requirements of the field, they don't have high expectations from your
writing.  (I got a critique from the local paper's children's book
reviewer.  I had to pay for this, but it was worth it, though I can't
remember a more deflating experience in my life!)

How are your illustration skills?  The general rule is not to attempt
to illustrate your own story or to find someone to do it for you,
unless you (or the person you find) is very, very good.  Publishers
have their own illustrators, their own styles, their own preferences.
Submit a great story with so-so illustrations, and they may well turn
the whole package down.

Unless you're really sure you're very good at both writing and
illustrating, concentrate on one for now - the one you're best at.
When you're an established success, you can try doing both.  But don't
bite off more than you can chew.

And to invoke an old, old quotation:  Many are called, few are chosen.
So don't try this unless you're willing to face rejection.

Am I making this sound hard?  Good, it is.

But then, it wouldn't be fun, if it was easy.

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: bufort@remus.rutgers.edu (Anthony Bufort)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: More Details on THE COMPLETE BOOK OF SCRIPTWRITING...
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:11:31 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


TITLE: The Complete Book of Scriptwriting
AUTHOR: Micheal J. Straczynski
PUBLISHER: Writer's Digest Books
            (Cincinnati, Ohio)
COPYRIGHT: 1982 (1st Paperback, 1987)
LENGTH: 265 pages, with diagrams
From: glenn.devlin@canrem.com (glenn devlin)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: looking for script so
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:49:24 GMT
Reply-To: "glenn devlin" <glenn.devlin@canrem.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


TE>Hello,
TE>I need to find information about a script writing computer program
TE>for an IBM. Also, I would like to know how to get a hold of a catalog of
TE>some sort that sells scripts.

TE>Thanks

TE>Tracie

Hi, Tracie - there is a script writing software and many more floating
around the market as well. I've heard one called Scriptor, but cost a
whopping 200 dollars. Sigh. I'll wait till I sell my first script then
buy it! :-)

Right now, I rely on Word Perfect 5.1 to do all my dirty work. I use
tab keys, etc. What do you use? Wordstar, Wordperfect?

Cheers, Glenn
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.12 #9662 ~ Connected to the BBS at 2400 baud, NOT!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario, Canadas
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Desktop Publishing, Fonts, and Submissions
Keywords: desktop publishing fonts submissions
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:08:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150257.4287@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> thigpen@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Keith Thigpen) writes:
>There was a thread a while ago that addressed the issue of font selection,
>(actually the entire issue of dressing up a submission using DTP). At the 
>time I was unable to get to the net but saw some of the subject lines.
>
>Is is standard to use Courier font? I hope not. It may be readable, but it
>seems so, uh... pedestrian. 

I wound up getting a lot of info on this thread, so time to pay back.
Sorry, Courier it is.  Why?  Editors are still used to typewritten
manuscripts, so their eyes are trained to read fixed spacing fonts.
Fixed fonts also make it easier for editors and layout staff to figure
out how much room the printed text will take.  And with proportional
fonts, sometimes there's not enough room between letters for editorial
or layout marks.

Finally, what's wrong with pedestrian?  I hope you're trying to impress
the editor with the CONTENT, with your writing, not dazzle them with
fancy fonts.  I have a feeling that the editor, getting a ms with fancy
fonts, multiple typefaces (bold, italics, different fonts sizes, etc)
will wonder if you're trying to do just that...

I never got a clear answer as to font size, but suspect 12-point is
probably the best to use.  (And don't forget to double space, and leave
lots of room at the top of the first page for the editor to write her
instructions for story layout, after she accepts your masterpiece! :-) )

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing Children's Books?
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:10:30 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <1992Sep9.201123.15884@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca> marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson) writes:
>In a recent misc.writing article, mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling) wrote:
>
>>
>>All you potential children's writers out there might be interested to
>>know that Graham Greene wrote 3 or so children's stories. One is
>>called The Little Red Fire Engine I believe. Now you could never
>>accuse him of not being a serious writer.
>
>This is exactly the sort of thing which irritates me. Why do we have to
>know that Graeme Greene wrote serious adult fiction to call him a
>serious writer? Answer: we don't. The fact that he wrote and published
>3 children's books, in and of itself, makes him a serious writer.

Oops, looks like I inadvertently ruffled somebody's feathers.
I merely mentioned it as a point of general interest (I thought
it was interesting anyhow).

But I wouldn't be surprised if Greene himself would have described
his children's stuff as `unserious'. Indeed, he distinguished his
`entertainments' from his `more serious novels'. So there you are.
To be honest it's up to the individual what they regard as serious.
If someone doesn't regard children's writing as `serious' who the
hell cares anyway?

Nigel