HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 18:18:54 MST
From: Scott Craig Hume <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Any Sigma Pi bros. out there?

Am looking to talk to any Sigma Pi Fraternity brothers out there on the net to
share some ideas.  I'm going on my third month as Chapter Advisor (doubling for
Chapter Director for the moment, too...).  The guys are transitioning from a
slow crawl to a brisk walk, and any ideas to keep things going would be greatly
appreciated.  I have my first degree in broadcast journalism/production, and am
working on a second degree in organizational communication, so while I have a
good amount of academic knowledge (as well as experience in the chapter), I'd
still would like to hear information how other brothers helped their houses
advance.

DISCLAIMER:  This post is my own, and it not sponsored by any institution
             from which I post.  Your milage may vary...
Newsgroups: soc.college,soc.women,talk.rape
From: disc5e6@rosie.uh.edu (92S00302)
Subject: Re: fraternities
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 06:51:00 GMT

>3) People who keep screaming ``But _I'M_ not more likely to rape, so
>stop saying it!!!!'' need to understand the way stats work.  Do you
>scream at your car insurance carrier that ``Just because I'm a young
>male, doesn't mean _I'M_ going to wreck my car!!!'' ?
> 
>Mark D. Smucker ----  mds@iastate.edu
> 
> 
Sorry Mark but I know very few accident free youngs males who haven't
yelled your quote above.....
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: still more practical jokes
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:03:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.230406.17295@talon.ucs.orst.edu> mickel@OES.ORST.EDU (Paul M. Mickel) writes:
>That they *HAVEN'T* been 
>challenged yet in US courts is even more amazing to me.

Legally, fraternities and sororities are exempt from the Civil Rights Act,
as are religious institutions wanting to hire on the basis of religion.
Social clubs that aren't explicitly fraternities (such as at Princeton)
have lost their court cases and went co-ed.

>In Oregon (USA), [hazing] is now *ILLEGAL* and 
>punishable by time in the county jail.
>I doubt it would usually come to that, but it's possible nonetheless. 

Hazing's illegal in a majority of states, but as the law is seldom
enforced, it doesn't have much effect.  DA's are notoriously lenient
on fraternities, partially because juries don't like to convict nice
white college boys with a future.  (Not one of the dozen or so Brandeis
fraternity people caught hazing by the university had charges pressed
against them by the government, even in a ZBT incident that resulted
in a car chase involving Waltham police.)
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
From: newlin@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Doug Newlin)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:16:53 GMT
Subject: Opinions on SMU Engineering
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.
Newsgroups: soc.college

My son is considering SMU for next Fall. He is just graduating from 
High School in June.  I was wondering what kind of reputation SMU's
Engineering School has.  Are they well equipped?  How is their ABET
accreditation?  Are their classes taught by full profs or teaching
assistants?

My son is interested in Bio-Mechanical Engineering.  Does SMU have
anyone on their staff who specializes in Bio-Mech?  

Thanks for any input you can give me.

Xref: sparky soc.college:2011 talk.rape:930
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:08:41 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <ELM.92Apr14001848@terrorism.berkeley.edu>, elm@cs.berkeley.edu (ethan miller) writes:
> In article <1992Apr14.055358.20185@cis.ohio-state.edu> schubach@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (bernard william schubach) writes:
> 
> You're missing Ted's point, which is the final line.  If fraternity
> members commit just 25% of the rapes on campus, then rapes by
> fraternity brothers must be reported 5 times as often as rapes by
> non-fraternity members.  Is this likely?

Actually, I understood this is what Ted was getting at. Yes, I think it is
likely. I took a course studying experimental design, and one of the first
things we learned was "if you don't have a random sample, your data is 
meaningless". Ted's datais an excellent basis on which to say fraternity 
members are more likely to commit a rape that is, in turn, likely to be
reported, but tha's all its good for.
> 

> It may also be a combination of the two.  Now, if you want to assert
> that (2) is the case, that's fine.  The numbers that Ted presented
> show that, for (2) to be the case, women would have to be 5 times more
> likely to report a rape by a fraternity member.  What basis is there
> for this hypothesis?

The data says that a rape that is reported is 5 times as likely to be 
reported. That's a good start to work with a hypothesis like (2).
> 
Mike
Xref: sparky soc.college:2019 talk.rape:935
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape
Subject: Re: fraternities
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:51:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

> 1)	A causes B      				OR
> 2)      B causes A                                      OR
> 3)	A and B are caused by something common (C)      OR
> 4)	the correlation between  A and B is accidental 
>         (this can be excluded by tests of statistical significance).
> 
4) can be avoided sometimes, but not always. I remember a beautiful piece
of data a stats prof of mine brought in. The corelation was a perfect 1
(that means that the corelation was perfect, no deviations whatsoever,
for the stats impaired out there ;-)
	The data corelated (with no deviations) the number of births in 
Copenhagen with the number of stork sightings. According to this data, then, the number of stork sightings had something to do with the number of live births..
Bear that in mind when you discuss stats.
Later
Mike
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Frats at Notre Dame
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:00:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.180442.9747@news.nd.edu> smaurer@artin.helios.nd.edu (sean maurer) writes:
>BTW We have no frats here at ND and I personally think that is a shame.

Well, maybe if you wanted frats you should have gone to a school with frats.

Me, I wanted a school without frats, and went to one, but the frats came
to me.
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: chris@cco.caltech.edu (Christopher Penn Launey)
Subject: Re: Frats at Notre Dame
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:39:44 GMT

thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:

>In article <1992Apr14.180442.9747@news.nd.edu> smaurer@artin.helios.nd.edu (sean maurer) writes:
>>BTW We have no frats here at ND and I personally think that is a shame.

>Well, maybe if you wanted frats you should have gone to a school with frats.

>Me, I wanted a school without frats, and went to one, but the frats came
>to me.

Not everyone chooses a college based on the presence/lack of fraternities and
sororities. For me, it wasn't really a consideration at all. I'm not trying 
to invalidate your choice and its reasons, but understand that Sean may have
chosen Notre Dame for its academic excellence and whether or not ND had a 
Greek system was a much smaller deal _to him_ than academics or reputation.
cheers,
Chris
 

>-- 
>Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
>1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
>U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
>Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
-- 
chris@cobalt.cco.caltech.edu	Chris Launey, Ruddock House, box 791
"Life is like a burrito:	Caltech, Pasadena, California 91126
If it's really good,		Caltech Happy Hours: September-June
You won't need a knife."	All you can drink! Cover charge $23,000
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape,soc.women
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:29:37 GMT

sag0798@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sassan Attari ) writes:
>>having the institution there certainly makes a difference. 

>How does being in an organization make a difference?  Going on your thinking,
>if one of these rapists was also a member of Students for Environmental 
>Concerns, you would say that this organization rapes.

>>Would you
>>say that the Klan lynched blacks, or that Klan members lynched blacks?
>>It's a minor semantical point, I suppose, much on the level of "Guns
>>don't kill people, people kill people (but the guns sure help a lot)."

>This is entirely different since fraternities were not organized to rape 
>women as guns were made to kill.
*----
Here at the University of Illinois, according to a report by the
UI Police as printed in the Daily Illini, some 70% of date/acquaintance
rapes are committed by Fraternity members.  The vast majority of those
happen during or after parties SPONSORED BY THE FRATERNITY.

In light of this, it seems that the organizational affiliation IS a
significant factor.  The fraternities must share some of the
responsibility.

It is also important to note that at the vast majority of fraternity
parties here on campus, alcohol is served illegally to minors.  The
fraternities are ignoring their responsibility to act in loco parentis
in the case of minors, many of whom must live in university
"approved" housing (meaning that it meets certain standards,
including adult supervision).

While we're on the subject, you might also find this interesting:
A task force composed of fraternity members was formed to identify
the main problems with fraternities, and to decide the priorities
that the fraternities should adopt for combatting the problems.
Although discrimination against women and gays were at the top of
the "problem" list (remember that the list was compiled by fraternity
members, not outsiders), it was at the BOTTOM of the list of problems
they thought they ought to attack.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:28:12 GMT

In article <cdukYxq00WB9MxSnpE@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>
>Now, as has been stated in every other message in this thread, there
>will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of assholes, and
>there will always be some fraternities comprised primarily of cool
>people.  Therefore, DON'T GENERALIZE!  If you have a specific beef
>with a specific chapter / local system, fine.  Maybe they are a bunch
>of assholes.  However, please try not do make your argument universal,
>as I'm getting quite annoyed at the fact that people are telling me
>that I'm 5 times more likely than some schleppy off the street to
>commit a rape, just because I live in a fraternity.

But you are X number of times more likely to rape.  I dont know
much about statistics but they do seem to quatify those things in life
that are easily generalized.  As long as the statistical analysis is done
by a reputable firm, professor, or committee, we should have good reason
to believe their findings are true.  And since history repeats itself,
I conclude that as fraternity members have raped in the past, they will
rape again.

We're not generalizing here, we're (at least I am) basing our conclusions
on evidence.  This includes the the university of Illinois study which 
I heard on a documentary.

John Erhardt

Xref: sparky soc.college:2022 alt.native:538 soc.culture.brazil:939 soc.culture.caribbean:865
From: lacausa@amherst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.native,soc.culture.brazil,soc.culture.caribbean
Subject: Calling all His-Panic Students
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:34:20 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA.


 
        Hola, me llamo Gilberto and I am the co-chair of La Causa (the Latino
 student group of Amherst College). I am writing this letter because I am 
 interested in trying to set up some kind of communication among Latinos at
 different colleges and universities. I have managed to convince the people
 in the computer center to give us two e-mail addresses which we can use in
 order to communicate with Latinos nationwide. Such a list can be used for a 
 variety of purposes including: 
 
   1) Inform one another about conferences and events happening
      on other campuses.
 
   2) Share information about how to effectively organize as students.
 
   3) Find more effective ways of recruiting and holding onto Latino students
      and faculty.
 
   4) Talk about ways to change the curriculum so that it starts to deal with
      concerns specific to Latinos in the U.S. (e.g. Hispanic-American Studies 
      programs)
 
   5) Get access to news about Latino students that probably is not availiable 
      through the 'mainstream' student magazines about campus life.
 
   6) Meet people who have a similar background and interest. (e.g. Afro-Latin
      studies is an area where it is not easy to get lots of information through
      the library and a mailing list might make it easier for people to get the
      names of books or references which others have found useful)
 
        I am sure that there are other things that a Latino mailing list could
 be used for and it would really be up to its members to decide what direction
 it should take. 
 
        If you are interested and want to subscribe, or have any comments that
 you want to send specifically to the person taking care of the list (that's me)
 then send a message to:
 
               latino-l-request@amherst.edu
 
  If you want to use the list and distribute a message, article, announcement,
  poem or whatever to all of the people participating in the list then send a
  message to: 
 
              latino-l@amherst.edu
 
 
 
 and also: if you know of anybody who might want to participate in the list 
           please forward this letter to them so that word of this can get out.
 
    gracias
 
 -Gilberto
From: Gregory.Park@dartmouth.edu (Gregory Park)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Wait Listed...
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:45:15 GMT
 <1992Apr4.203958.10700@husc3.harvard.edu> 
 <1992Apr8.154150.11581@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>  
 <1992Apr10.075029.3479@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

we all know the real studs go to dartmouth. the ivy league of the ivy
league
Newsgroups: soc.college,talk.rape,soc.women
From: intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing)
Newsgroups: soc.singles,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Men and women talking
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:29:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <gblj7k.aahz@netcom.com> aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius) writes:
>I find it interesting that the thread "Request : Dating advice from
>women" has spawned so few flames.  I normally haunt soc.singles, and
>it's been nice seeing so many "new" faces.  In the past, though, a
>thread x-posted to all three newsgroups was a virtual guarantee of a
>flame-war.  Any ideas on why we all started talking normally for once,
>instead of screaming at each other?

Because the lilacs are blooming, silly!  (Or is that: The lilacs are
blooming silly?) 

Angelwing - and I've got some on my desk, too.

*------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Angelwing       |"Two things are wanted by a true man, danger and*
* U. of Washington| play - therefore, he seeks woman as the most   *
*                 | dangerous toy."       Friedrich Nietzsche      *
*------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Male visual orientationREFRESH
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:17:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Apr8.025018.4511@midway.uchicago.edu> pooh@group-w.uchicago.edu (Pooh @ the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) writes:
>My personal favorite is still the one with the Croatian sword-swallowers,
>Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream, three dozen emery boards,
>an affection-starved chameleon, and Tiger Balm.

...there I was, lying naked in a bowl of Jello. Cherry Jello. I was bound 
hand and foot with duct tape, and a large Black woman named Monique was
standing over me, beating me with a wire brush, and making me call her
'Mama'.....

r. 
ps- ';-)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Burp. (was Re: THE ELEMENTS OF SEDUCTION)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:34:02 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Apr15.170541.4176@mks.com>  fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes:
>
> That's what other women are for. Of course, you then run the risk of your
> girlfriend liking the other women more than she likes you and dumping you.

Yeah, it's terrible when they make you watch and don't let you join in.

OK, it's not *all* that terrible...

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: How to meet girls?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:42:33 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.181401.13648@wam.umd.edu> asp@wam.umd.edu (??) writes:
>I'm 18 and this is my first year here at school.  I haven't met many girls and
>the I just don't seem to appeal to the ones I have.  I think I seem like a 
>decent guy.  I think I care alot and listen well.  What is a good way to meet
>girls and get this point across to them.  
>
>Todd

	Get into zen despair. Once you no longer care one way or another,
the off-putting aura of need young folk often have will fade, and you might
even start interacting socially with females, which increases the chance of
Getting Involved.

	Note that Getting Involved increases the chances of getting your 
heart ripped out and fed to weasels to close to 100%. Don't play if you
can't afford to lose.

							James Nicoll
From: ucda@toontown.uucp (Chris Andersen (The Dangerous Guy))
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: The "first" "move"
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:13:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: toontown.1992Apr13.191302.4093
Organization: The Department For Doing Departmental Things

kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) 
>stef@Apple.COM (Stef Jones)
>> We might have to consider the possibility of MUTUAL INTEREST? 
>> 
>> Of course we might. But mutual interest or not, someone has to move
>> first. 

But identifying that first move may not be as easy as it seems.  I take my
first meeting with my wife as a prime example.  I came into a bar and walked
past her.  She noticed me first and liked what she saw.  So she made a point
of looking in my direction.  After a few glances around the room I noticed
this woman was looking at me for more then just the normal glance.  I looked
back at her 2-3 times to make sure.  I then indicated the dance floor with a
"you wanna...?" look on my face.  She smiled and nodded her head.  The rest 
is history.

Now who made the first move in this meeting?  Some might say it was me since
I was the first one to indicate that I'd like to dance with her.  While others
might say it was her since she was the one who first noticed me and made a 
point of trying to get my attention.  I personally don't find it worth my time
to decide who made the first move because I couldn't care less.  The results
are what matters.

-- 
Chris Andersen (..!uunet!sequent!toontown!chris)

"...the only thing worse than being hurt is being bored." -- Daniel Mocsny
Newsgroups: soc.singles,soc.men,soc.women
From: puter@no1home.nashvil.ingr.com (Software Dude)
Subject: Men and women talking
Organization: WHAT?
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:00:07 GMT

 intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing) writes:
> aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius) writes:
>> Any ideas on why we all started talking normally for once,
>>instead of screaming at each other?
>
>Because the lilacs are blooming, silly!  (Or is that: The lilacs are
>blooming silly?) 
>
>Angelwing - and I've got some on my desk, too.
>
And my tulips are just BURSTING to be planted!
(And I've got some on my face, too) <ar-ar-ar> ;^)
--
Puter		puter@no1home.nashvil.ingr.com		Go UofL Cardinals!
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: The "first" "move" (was Re: A R C )
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:31:40 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

intrigue@milton.u.washington.edu (Angelwing) writes:

}Okay okay!  Sheesh!   I agree ...but what someone edited out of the
}previous post was me saying that even though a women *is NOT* obviously
}aggressive, if she's interested it'd be fairly obvious to any man who
}doesn't have his head in the clouds.  Get it?  I'm not saying that being
}around and flirting is making the first move.  I'm saying that being
}available and open makes it obviously to men so that they're not all
}scared about being turned down or rejected.  You are much more likely to
}approach a person who you are quite certain is interested in you, right? 

And thus is a major misunderstanding between the sexes born.  Try to
understand that what is obvious to you may not be obvious to the man.
Keep in mind that each woman is different.  A behavior that if exhibited
by you might mean overt flirting and "obviously" being available and open,
might mean simple friendliness and gregariousness if exhibited by another
woman.  I have seen this first hand.  My ex was a VERY friendly person, but 
that was just her way.  Time and time again I saw unfortunate men misread 
her signals and think that she was "obviously" available, only to crash and 
burn when they tried to follow up and found out she was decidedly unavailable.
This was hard on my ex, too, by the way.  She honestly and truly did not
intend to send out romantic, "available" type signals; she was just a
friendly person.  So she was surprised and bothered when men thought
otherwise, especially when they would not continue to be friends with her
when the truth was discovered.  Men who have experienced something like
that might be a little more cautious in the future.  So don't assume that
your "obvious" signals are being read as all that obvious.

}That's all I'm saying.  Granted, I don't have practice being the
}aggressive person.  Tried it once .. didn't like it.  And frankly, I've
}never *had* to do it.  I guess because if I'm interested in someone I make
}sure they know it.  I make *sure*.  I like playing the game and, like
}somebody said, I like playing by my rules, too.  It not only works for me,
}though.  Lots of women use this stratagem.

Get down on your knees and give thanks to God above that you have that
option.  Seriously.  Most men don't like being the aggressive person
either, certainly not all the time.  But we have no other choice.  We
don't GET to play by our own rules, because if we try, we're just out
of the game.

--James Preston

Newsgroups: soc.singles