From: davis@cwis.unomaha.edu (James J Davis)
Subject: Re: Hero Bestiary and other Hero Stuff
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:02:17 GMT

dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen) writes:

>     Okay, on to the Other Stuff mentioned in the subject header.  The overuse 
>of RP in HBestiary got me to thinking about that limitation, and I realized it 
>was a really good substitute for Autofire when it comes to superspeed and the 
>like.  I mean, multiple punches at superspeed usually can't *break* anything 
>that one punch alone couldn't, but they can *stun* them.  I refer specifically 
>to Alpha Flight #12, where Northstar pummels Sasquatch and actually hurts him 
>with a flurry of normal-strength punches.  How it would work is this: buy 
>enough HA to either quadruple or octuple your HTH damage, then buy RP 2 or 3 
>times on it, with the understanding that the RP would apply to the net attack, 
>not just the HA.  Thus the attack would not do much more BOD to the target (esp
>an armored one) than the regular punch, but the repeated attacks with no chance
>to recover between would do alot more STUN.  Of course, this would simulate not
>4 or 8 punches, but several dozen or hundred delivered in a fraction of a 
>second...the RP just keeps the BOD down, it doesn't necessarily imply 4 or 8 
>attacks.  Someone like the Flash or Northstar, capable of several hundred shots
>at once, would be STR 10 (add +20 STR only for lifting for Flash) with 14d6 HA 
>on 3x RP and 0 END for this.  Of course, they can also concentrate on one spot 
>and break armor at the cost of severe damage to theirselves, so maybe 14d6 HA 
>with automatic Side Effect in another MP or EC slot.  Someone with less 
>superspeed but more raw strength might have STR 15 and 9d6 HA with 2x RP.  Use 
>of Reduced Penetration in this way can simulate superspeed punches that go off 
>all in one attack but don't individually do much damage or knockback.

Yes, and no.  Yes, Reduced Penetration is a great way of simulating autofire.
It's one of my favorites, too.  (Use it on EB, and by spreading you can get
other 'autofire like' effects as well...)  However, if you take Reduced Pen
more than once, the replicating levels are not worth a limitation.  (More
clearly, you only get the -1/4 once, not once for each level of Reduced 
Penetration.)

My rationale stems from the fact that 'Stun only' is a -0 limitation.  If
doing normal BODY is -0, and STUN only is -0, you might ask, why is Reduced
Penetration worth a limitation at all?  My answer is that it's becuase
Reduced Penetration has the worst of both worlds.  It does not do enough
BODY to harm forcewalls and entangles of equal active point value.  But,
at the same time, it retains it's ability to harm and kill normals, becuase
their defenses are so low getting 2 PD twice really doesn't matter too much.
Therefore, taking the limitation again is not very limiting, because it
really does start to make it impossible to hurt normals.  In Northstar's
case, with 10 STR, suddenly he's not hurting normals (BODY-wise).  Following
the logic in the rules, this is STUN only (the BODY is token, at best).  And,
it's not even worth a -1/4 anymore.

Even outside of this logic, how many people do you want buying 8d6 EBs, with
4 levels of Reduced Penetration (makes sure max BODY damage is 1 point at a
time).  This is obviously not worth a -1 limitation.

In lieu of the above, I look at it this way.  If the Reduced Penetration
results in average BODY rolls of 3 or higher, it's worth -1/4 total, since
you can't hurt forcewalls or entangles, but can hurt normals.  If it results
in BODY rolls (average) of 2 or less, then it's -0, since it has really
become STUN only.

Working on the idea now, I also suggest that if you want more damage, but
by this approach can't get it except by doubling your damage, just buy some
more dice 'STUN only', which will not interfere with the way BODY is done.
This would help simulate all those other hits you're getting but not counting
BODY for.

-james

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