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Reply-To: "Lista de Informaciones para la Red Academica Nacional y BITNET."
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From: DP.LASPAU%MHSGW.BITNET@uchcecvm.cec.uchile.cl (        DP)
Subject: Conexiones a redas en Chile
X-To: - <SCCC-L@PUCING.BITNET>
Original-To: Multiple recipients of list CHILENET <CHILENET@UCHCECVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: chile.chilenet
Distribution: chile
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 13:20:23 CST

To: SMTP"CHILE-L@PURCCVM.bitnet", SMTP"CHILENET@UCHCECVM.bitnet", SMTP"INTER-CH@
Cc: SMTP"SCCC-L@PUCING.bitnet", SMTP"AYUDA1@USACHVM1.bitnet", SMTP"RED-INFO@UCHC

Saludos!

  El jefe en cargo de el desarollo de projectos nuevos en LASPAU esta
buscando un contacto en Chile con quien puede comunicarse sobre
conexiones neuvas a redas electronicas en Chile.  Si ay alguna persona
o oficina que conoce de esto, seria una gran ayuda si alguien me
pudia mandar un nombre y un numero de telephono.

  Cualquier ayuda seria muy appreciado.  Respuestas deben ser enviado
por correo electronico (e-correo?) personal (dpolicar@harvard.edu), y
no a el rede entero.

  Muchas gracias de anticipacion!

David Policar
Jefe de Comunicacion Electronica
Latin American Scholarship Program     Telefono:  (617)495-5255
 of American Universities (LASPAU)     E-mail: dpolicar@harvard.edu
          25 Mount Auburn Street
          Cambridge, MA 02138  USA
Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: mvalcar@usachux2.usach.cl (Manuel Valcarcel)
Subject: Seminario en U.Concepcion???
Organization: Universidad de Santiago de Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:29:26 GMT

    Hola he sabido algo con respecto a un seminario a realizarce en la
U.de Concepcion,sobre redes.A mi depto. le interesaria participar y por
ende me gustaria saber si alguien me puede decir algo mas sobre este
(fecha ,precio,etc.).
 Muchas gracias.
                                  Manuel F. Valcarcel B.
                                  mvalcar@usachux2.usach.cl
                                  SECOM
                                  Servicio De Computacion 
                                  USACH.

Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: jmoreno@buho.dpi.udec.cl (Jorge Moreno A.)
Subject: consulta
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 17:18:51 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Concepcion, Concepcion - Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Alguien sabe si la Universidad Austral de Chile tiene direccion
Internet (o BITNET)?. Agradecere cualquier informacion al respecto.

Gracias.

--
    *********
  *****
*****                           ========================       
  *********                     jmoreno@buho.dpi.udec.cl
****                            ======================== 
  ****
    *******
Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: rene@inf.utfsm.cl (Rene Angel Sepulveda)
Subject: Seteo de Terminales
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 17:31:20 GMT
Distribution: chile
Organization: Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria, Valparaiso, Chile


Necesito setear terminales wyse60 ( personalidad vt100 o wyse75 ) via
software.

Quien tenga alguna sugerencia o lo haya hecho..... COMUNIQUENMELO...
por favor!!!


-- 
                       _   _   _   _ 
                      / ) /_) / ) /_)
                     /   (_  / / (_  
                    rene@inf.utfsm.cl
Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: apfel@tolten.puc.cl (Andres Fernandez-Leon)
Subject: Re: Seminario en U.Concepcion???
Organization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Distribution: sa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:00:33 GMT


Felipe Castro (fcastro@tolten.puc.cl) wrote:
: Manuel Narvaez T. (mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl) wrote:
: : Andres Fernandez-Leon (apfel@tolten.puc.cl) wrote:
: : >Me gustaria saber cual es el nombre EXACTO del seminario...
: : >lo sabe alguien???
: : se llama : "PRIMER ENCUENTRO TECNICO DE ADMINISTRADORES DE SISTEMAS EN RED"

: Al parecer, ese no era el nombre original. Una vez hubo un posting en
: chile.anuncios que los llamaba "Encuentro de Redes Universitarias
: Chilenas"


Si, recuerdo que lo lei...


: Era una invitacion excelente...

: Luego, un dia el anuncio fue cancelado por su autor. No expiro
: normalmente, y eso me consta. Invitacion retirada?

: Ese mismo dia comenzaron a correr rumores, tanto por la red como
: personalmente: que Unired no va. Algunos atribuyen la decision a gente
: de la Universidad de Concepcion, otros dicen que fue por iniciativa de
: Reuna...


Mhh... en la uconcep habia gente que estaba un poco desilusionada porque
no ibamos... ellos pensaban que no queriamos ir!!!


: Que paso? Que alguien ya no nos considera parte de una Red Universitaria
: Chilena? Me gustaria saber las razones por las que se nos deja
: fuera. Al parecer son motivos politicos los que estan predominando en
: este primer encuentro "tecnico" de administradores de sistemas en red.


Creo que no nos [PUC, USACH, UCV] consideran parte de REUNA... :-(


: Asi que, Manuel (Valcarel), el hecho es que no vamos.

: Y agradeceria a quien me pueda aclarar que es lo que esta pasando con
: este Seminario, como se llego a esta decision, etc...

: Gracias...

: 	-Felipe


Apfel  <apfel@puc.cl>
       <apfel@tolten.puc.cl>

Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: apfel@tolten.puc.cl (Andres Fernandez-Leon)
Subject: Re: Seminario en U.Concepcion???
Organization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:47:05 GMT

Manuel Valcarcel (mvalcar@usachux2.usach.cl) wrote:
:     Hola he sabido algo con respecto a un seminario a realizarce en la
: U.de Concepcion,sobre redes.A mi depto. le interesaria participar y por
: ende me gustaria saber si alguien me puede decir algo mas sobre este
: (fecha ,precio,etc.).
:  Muchas gracias.
:                                   Manuel F. Valcarcel B.
:                                   mvalcar@usachux2.usach.cl
:                                   SECOM
:                                   Servicio De Computacion 
:                                   USACH.


Me gustaria saber cual es el nombre EXACTO del seminario...
lo sabe alguien???

Apfel.

Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl (Manuel Narvaez T.)
Subject: Re: Seminario en U.Concepcion???
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 22:54:25 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Concepcion, Concepcion - Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Andres Fernandez-Leon (apfel@tolten.puc.cl) wrote:
>
>Me gustaria saber cual es el nombre EXACTO del seminario...
>lo sabe alguien???
>
>Apfel.
>
se llama : "PRIMER ENCUENTRO TECNICO DE ADMINISTRADORES DE SISTEMAS EN RED"

Concepcion, 19 - 21 Enero 1993


     ____      ____   _________
    /   /\    /   /\ /________/      Manuel Narvaez T.
   /   /  \  /   /  \  /   /         mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl
  /   /\   \/   /\   \/   /          mnarva@aguila.dpi.udec.cl
 /   /  \  /   /  \  /   /
/___/    \/___/    \/__ /            Universidad de Concepcion - Chile
Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl (Manuel Narvaez T.)
Subject: Re: Seminario en U.Concepcion???
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 00:00:09 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Concepcion, Concepcion - Chile
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Manuel Narvaez T. (mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl) wrote:
>Andres Fernandez-Leon (apfel@tolten.puc.cl) wrote:
>>
>>Me gustaria saber cual es el nombre EXACTO del seminario...
>>lo sabe alguien???
>>
>>Apfel.
>>
>se llama : "PRIMER ENCUENTRO TECNICO DE ADMINISTRADORES DE SISTEMAS EN RED"
>
>Concepcion, 19 - 21 Enero 1993
>

Antes que sea ULTIMA HORA se realizaron algunos cambios, ahora 

se llama : "PRIMER ENCUENTRO DE ADMINISTRADORES DE SISTEMAS EN RED"

y la fecha es  18 - 20 Enero 1993, en la Universidad de Concepcion.

Para mayor informacion vease en chile.chile-l, chile.chilenet, chile.
redadmin, y chile.varios


     ____      ____   _________
    /   /\    /   /\ /________/      Manuel Narvaez T.
   /   /  \  /   /  \  /   /         mnarvaez@halcon.dpi.udec.cl
  /   /\   \/   /\   \/   /          mnarva@aguila.dpi.udec.cl
 /   /  \  /   /  \  /   /
/___/    \/___/    \/__ /            Universidad de Concepcion - Chile
Newsgroups: chile.consultas
From: erodrigu@dcc.uchile.cl (Eduardo Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: consulta
Originator: erodrigu@tortel
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 20:25:22 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Chile, Depto. de Ciencias de la Computacion


In article <Jan05.171851.13824@halcon.dpi.udec.cl>, jmoreno@buho.dpi.udec.cl (Jorge Moreno A.) writes:
> Alguien sabe si la Universidad Austral de Chile tiene direccion
> Internet (o BITNET)?. Agradecere cualquier informacion al respecto.

En Internet no, en BITNET lo que tienen es una cuenta
a la cual se conectan desde el Sur, la cuenta es:

austral@uchcecvm.BITNET    (austral@uchcecvm.cec.uchile.cl)

edo...

 ////  Matar a un hombre es algo imposible de olvidar, le            ```\  
 c-OO  le quitas todo lo que tiene y todo                            OO-c 
    \  lo que puede llegar a tener                                   /   
   -                                      Supongo que se lo merecen   - 
       Todos nos lo merecemos
Newsgroups: chile.compraventas
From: crsalina@cipres.cec.uchile.cl (SALINAS VALENZUELA CRISTIAN ANDRES)
Subject: Teclado Casio (un regalo)
Originator: crsalina@cipres
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 16:18:08 GMT
Distribution: chile
Organization: Centro de Computacion (CEC), Universidad de Chile



Vendo Teclado Casio modelo CZ-230s , exelente estado , 100 sonidos

totalmente programable , 3 salidas midi , 4 octavas , pantalla digital (LC)

Regalo 80000 pesos.

interesados llamar al 2718003 (preguntar por Pablo) o mandar Mail a

crsalina@araucaria.cec.uchile.cl
Newsgroups: chile.compraventas
From: crsalina@cipres.cec.uchile.cl (SALINAS VALENZUELA CRISTIAN ANDRES)
Subject: Vendo juegos para MSX2
Originator: crsalina@cipres
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 17:48:22 GMT
Distribution: stgo
Organization: Centro de Computacion (CEC), Universidad de Chile



Vendo los mejores juegos para MSX2 a precios realmente convenientes.

Algunos de los juegos son :

Zanac Plus , Zanac Ex (nuevo) , Hipe , Nemesis , King Valley ,

Road Figther , Warrior , Raid On , Tenis , Golf , Chess 3D ,

Soccer , Vanpire Killer (exclusivo) , etc.

Ademas los utilitarios dBase II y Video Graphics 54


Si te interesa , mandar mail a crsalina@araucaria.cec.uchile.cl
From: bob.barnard@travel.com (Bob Barnard) 
Newsgroups: stl.general
Subject: COOL BBS
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:07:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: bob.barnard@travel.com (Bob Barnard) 

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From: milnes_j@lincoln.gpsemi.com (James A Milnes)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Clans and Tartans?
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:39:46 GMT
Organization: GEC Plessey Semiconductors
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A778B51ECF0170BC@mac_oob8.lincoln.gpsemi.com>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 12 Jan 93 17:49:18 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12


Some of my ancestors are Scottish by origin.I would like to know how
I can trace the Clan they belonged to and the Tartan that they wore,
and that I to am entitled to wear.

James Milnes                               
  
E-mail : milnes_j@lincoln.gpsemi.com
Post    : 2 Albert crescent
             Lincoln,Lincs
             LN1 1LX.
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Reforming "false armorye"
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 02:10:41 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Cast thy heraldry books about the house, and flatmates will point out useful 
passages:

    The official canon of Visitations, however, begins with the issue 
    of a Royal Commission by Henry VIII on 19 April 1530 for Thomas 
    Benolt, Clarenceux King of Arms.  It was addressed to the 
    Sheriffs and other local authorities and directed them that 
    whereas Clarenceux intended "by waie of noblenes to visite amonge 
    other your armes and conysaunces and to reform the same yf yt be 
    necessarye and requisite and to reforme all false armorye and 
    armes devysed without auctoritie", they were to give him all 
    assistance in their power.
    (Anthony R. Wagner  _Historic Heraldry of Britain_  London: Oxford 
    University Press, 1948, p. 22.)

The term "false arms" had a specific meaning:  "Armes that are called false 
or falsefied, be either of colours alone, or of mettals alone" (John Ferne  
_The Blazon of Gentrie_  London, 1586, p. 163.).  I'm inclined to believe 
that this usage is intended, since the sense of "improperly assumed armory" 
is covered by "armes devysed without auctoritie".

I have a vision of Clarenceux (and buddies) on Visitation "correcting" all 
examples of colour-on-colour or metal-on-metal armory that he could find 
(along with all the other divers irregularities which HeraldryMan had a duty 
to put right).  The rules of Tudor heraldry were enforced retrospectively on 
existing arms, and shaped all armory which followed. 

Question:  I live an awfully long way from the old English chapels with 
heraldic escutcheons and such -- can anyone offer advice on how to find out 
what (unreformed) medieval heraldry was actually like?  I'm especially 
interested in the "irregular" armory which (if it existed) was likely to have 
been suppressed in "heraldic" sources.  I haven't yet started looking at 
early Rolls of Arms (they're hard to get here -- any good facsimiles 
around?).
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Re: Wallachian Eagle
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:45:02 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

I wrote:
>In article <C0Gq16.7H3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> damour@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher Damour) writes:
>>A friend of mine is looking for information on what a Wallachian Eagle looked
>>like in heraldry.  I believe that he is interested circa 1300-1500 A.D.  Does
>>anyone out there have an idea?
>
>I don't know if this helps. Here are the arms of the kingdom of Rumania (back
>when it was a kingdom, of course), lifted from Woodward's p.667:
>Quarterly: 1. Azure, an eagle displayed, holding a sceptre, sword, and cross,
>in dexter chief a sun or (Wallachia); 2. Gules, a bull's head caboshed [i.e.
>full-faced and showing no part of the neck], between its horns a star, and in
>sinister chief a crescent or (Moldavia); 3. Gules, on an open crown a lion 
		          ^ increscent (the horns to dexter)
>rampant crowned and holding a star or; 4. Azure, two dolphins affrontes, heads
>in base, tails in chief. Over all Hohenzollern (quarterly, Argent and sable).

The above arms were used from 1872 to 1921.  The third quarter is Craiova
(capital of Oltenia or little Wallachia) and the 4th is Dobrudja.  After
1921, things got really serious, and the following arms were used:

Azure, an eagle displayed crowned or, armed gules, holding in its right claw 
a sword argent armed or, in the left claw a scepter or, in the beak a cross
or; on its breast an escutcheon, quarterly: 1. Wallachia, 2. Moldavia, 3. 
Gules, a lion or issuing out of a bridge of two arches or, streams transfluent 
azure (Banat), 4. per fess azure and or, over all a bar gules, issuing 
therefrom a demi-eagle displayed sabel, adextre in chief of a sun or, and
senestre of a crescent-decrescent argent ; in the base, seven towers gules 
(Transylvania, Siebenbu"rgen in German). In point,  Dobrudja.

The Wallachian eagle may therefore be the eagle or on a field azure, holding
a sword, scepter and cross, which comes from the arms of Wallachia. 

-- 

	Francois Velde
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Re: What is this group for?
Date: 4 Jan 93 09:36:09 GMT
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Patrick quotes Beth:

 . . .

>     So, we could discuss SCA heraldry, just so long as we don't start 
>  swamping this forum with any rules nit-picking..... Anybody who gets 
>  the SCA-specific heraldry group knows what I'm talking about.....

  I sincerely appreciate the volume of information which I have found 
here on rec.heraldry.  Further, I concur with you, Beth, that this area 
is for matters heraldic in nature, and not for the business of any one 
organization.
 
Patrick Reed
From: mfd@aber.ac.uk (Margaret Frances Disbury)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Re: Heraldric Glossary A
Summary: Problems with line length
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:23:34 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <726702601.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Rich.Taylor@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Rich Taylor) writes:
>A Newcomers Guide to Heraldric Terms
>By Ulf Eirickson
>also known as Tensen of the Dark Quest
>Location: Barony of Carillion
>          Kingdom of the East
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The compiler of this glossary used as many sources as possible, and will continuously add new terms and better definitions whenever they are found. modem users may contact him at Matrix BBS (908) 905-6691
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Abased, Abaised, Abausse : Used to describe a charge that place a charge that is placed somewhat lower in achievemnet than it normally would be.
>
>Abatement: Applies to a charge variously defined as "a difference for illegitimacy" and "a mark of dishonor" added to the achievement.
>
>Aboute': Positioned end to end.
>
>Accessories: All of the appurtenance of a heraldic achievement, including the shield.
>

   [rest of file deleted]

Thank you for the work you have done in  standardizing usage, but a lot of
information seems to have dropped off the ends of lines.

Could you please repost using a standard 75-character line length ?
Many thanks.


Fran

(Sorry about the lack of info in my .sig - we've recently had a machine
name-change and the local gurus can't agree about how to give our
address on the Internet.

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
Fran Disbury     JANET: mfd@uk.ac.aber    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak arms
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 22:55:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan04.193346.17356@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>Francois R. Velde writes:
>
>> * Silesia: or, an eagle displayed sable crowned or, on its breast a
>>    crescent trefoiled and a crosslet argent.
>
>I picked up somewhere the notion that this crescent-thing was originally
>intended as a representation of the eagle's wing bones, or something like
>that.  I believe I have seen them blazoned in German as "klee-stengeln"
>(very approximately recalled).  Can anyone confirm/verify/correct this?

So that's what these things are! I always thought the poor birds were
crucified on a crescent :-)

I trodded over to the library, and here is what I found. 

Kleestengel(n), or Kleeblattstengel, means clover-stalk. It is described 
as an elongated clasp extending sideways from the breast of the eagle and
ending in a trefoil.  There is one on each wing (usually). Examples include
Prussia, Brandenburg, Tirol.  Silesia, however, is a true crescent (it
crosses over the breast). Neubecker states that Silesia's crescent is 
"often" trefoiled, but the Brockhaus encyclopedia has only a plain
crescent (with the cross issuing from the middle of the crescent). 

Note: in German, to drink a clover-leaf is to drink three glasses of Schnaps
on end. To drink a clover leaf with stem (Kleeblatt mit Stengel) is to 
drink four. I don't know what happens after four...

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: What is this group for?
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:46:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.120517.26755@odin.diku.dk> klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen) writes:
>trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
>
>>Actually even you, Francois, cannot be entirely sure you have no nobility in
>>the family tree, from "the wrong side of the blanket". Given the old practice
>>of droit de signeur (sp?)

Of course, I cannot prove that I have no blue blood, however it might have 
entered my veins. But if it did, and so surreptitiously, it would not serve 
to explain my fascination with heraldry and noble genealogies.

>I assume that this is what is usually called the jus primae noctis in this
>country. Different encyclopedias (sp?) have different opinions on this,
>they range from "probably a legend" to "might have been practised in certain
>parts of Spain."

In France, it is called "droit de cuissage", from cuisse=thigh (supposedly, 
the mild form of this right was for the lord to put his thigh in his newlywed 
serfs' bed: sounds bizarre to me).  I never checked to see whether this really
existed. In modern French, "droit de cuissage" refers to the superior's "right"
to sexually harass his female coworkers. 

-- 

	Francois Velde

From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: What is this group for?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 20:14:58

>I assume that this is what is usually called the 
>jus primae noctis in this
>country. Different encyclopedias (sp?) have 
>different opinions on this,
>they range from "probably a legend" to "might have 
>been practised in certain
>parts of Spain."

 TV> As far as I know, the Ius Primae Noctis was 
 TV> actually practised during the
 TV> Dark Ages, but was extremely scorned upon by 
 TV> clergy, and was dropped out via
 TV> evolution of the thing we call chivalry, before year 1100. 
 In doing some reading, I got the impression that the origin of this custom arose because superstitious man was a bit freaked out by the 
 happenings of taking a woman's virginity.  Lots of "bad magic" was 
 supposed to abound.  The "chief" was sufficiently strong that he could 
 weather the bad magic.  Thus, this was actually a service that the 
 chief rendered to the lesser men of the group.  As people grew away 
 from the older superstitions, the reason faded, and it became a 
 duty to the chief, rather than the reverse.
    I'd think this was just some smooth talker pulling a fast one if it 
 didn't show up across Europe, and, if memory serves me, in a different 
 form in the American Indians.....
     -= Beth =-

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry