HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko)
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 14:01:55 GMT

This is in reply to the original post rather than the Fionavar thread:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.  These
books are what I consider excellent epic fantasy.  The ones that are out to date:
1) Eye of the World
2) The Great Hunt
3) The Dragon Reborn

the fourth should be coming out within a year or so (I hope!) 

-- 
Ted "Theodore" Ko  			E-Mail: ted@athena.mit.edu
						tedk@ctt.bellcore.com
From: rclark@lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Clark x4971)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mote in God's Eye (Sequel)
Keywords: speculation . . .
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:19:08 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

In article <1992Aug12.212457.17764@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In all the talk about possible plots for the seqeul, I think one has
>been missed. . . 
>
>We all know from MiGE that the Moties have the Alderson (or "Crazy
>Eddie") drive.  We know they get the Lanston field pretty quickly.
>How long does it actually take them to build the first Field-protected
>Alderson ship?  The _Lenin_ and (I presume) the waiting tanker
>returned to the New Caledonia system fairly promptly, and then they
>*stayed* there until the decision was made to blockade the Mote system
>at Murcheson's Eye.  To make the blockade work, they had to get a
>fleet together . . .
>
>How long did this take?
>
>Could the Moties have slipped a ship out *before* the blockade was set
>up--when jump shock wouldn't have left tehm sitting ducks for waiting
>warships?
>
>I *think* it's given in MiGE that the only jump-point away from
>Murcheson's Eye is to New Caledonia--but is that actually true, or is
>it the only jump point to an Imperial planet?  EVen if that's the only
>way out--how closely is the point between the Eye and New Cal being
>watched?
>
>There may be Moties already loose before the blockade is set up . . .
>
>	--Hal

I recall comming away from the book with the impression that there was only
one jump point out of the Eye system but I realized that they just didn't
say anything one way or the other about it. In Building_the_Mote they said
it was normal for a star to have 3-6 jump points to its neighbors.
At the earlier plot suggestion of the Moties making the Eye go supernova
I had wondered if they would have to tiptoe through NewCal to get out into
ghe galaxy or if they could take some unsuspected route straight out of
their system when the jump points leading to the Eye move over to the Mote.
Three pages of differential equations or not, I guess there will be whatever
jump points (or the lack thereof) that the plot may demand.

Of course if there is a passage in the book that says the tramline between
NewCal and the Eye is the only one out of the Eye system could someone please
post a reference to it?

Richard Clark
rclark@lpl.arizona.edu
From: terry@edsi.plexus.COM (Terry Dawson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: awful Delaney
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:50:26 GMT
Organization: Appleton Public Library - Appleton, WI

yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin) writes:

>Statistical significance is a real problem - but the only English
>major I've ever sullied with the question brightened significantly at
>the mention of Delany.  It seems that (the right sort of) sf is always
>ultra-hip in some literati circles, and taboo in others - and the
>circles change places every few years. 

Well, I hate to confess it, but I was an English major.  And I used to
love Delany.  My favorite author.  He left me after _Dhalgren_, which I
thought a masterpiece, and I haven't been able to get into any of his
stuff since then.  The "Neveryon" works I've found very interesting in
small doses, but they don't sustain my interest as longer works of
fiction.  The writing is superb -- I just don't enjoy the books.  I'm
willing to concede this may be my fault for wanting to "enjoy" a novel,
but I'm not gonna get too concerned about it.

-- 
     Terry Dawson       | "Only connect!" | voice: (414) 832-6168
Appleton Public Library |                 |   fax: (414) 832-6422
  Appleton, WI 54911    |  -E.M. Forster  | terry@edsi.plexus.com
From: aak50740@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Count Zero )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Elric Chronicles
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:53:42 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


	Has anyone read Michael Moorcock's 'Elric Chronicles'? It looks
fascinating but maybe someone can tell me if it is a waste of time...

Count-Zero@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: baylor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Reply-To: baylor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:00:19 GMT

>In article <1992Aug8.183546.11966@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca>, pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein) writes:
>> In article <BsIy8E.EIu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>>>Just bought Starseed (by Spider and Jeanne Robinson) at my local 
>>>bookstore (from leafing through the book, doesn't look like I 
>>>wasted my $5...).
>>>
>>>And, from leafing through the first chapter, we learn that the
>>>main character, at the time the story begins, is 46 years old?
>>>
>>>So what is a Christie Brinkley clone doing on the front cover?
>>>
Gee, I just assumed that all that dancing gave the lady a "well stacked" 
body. The one that infuriated me was STARDANCERS, where in chapter 1 or 2
it is established that Shara Drummond was exceedingly buxom, but the 
lady on the cover is very slim.
>> I talked to Spider about that cover: he is slightly amused by it but not in
>> the least impressed with it. Spider has had bad luck with covers. Anyone
>> remember the hideous covers for "Night Of Power" and "Mindkiller"?
In fact, I don't remember the cover to Mindkiller at all; It must be 
terribly forgettable, since I've read & reread the book.

Incidentally, the misrepresentational covers is not just a problem in
SF. I still haven't gotten over the sloppy historical romance (now THAT'S
escapism) where the heroine was raised by a turn of the century 
missionary in China.  In ch. 1, she, like the locals, was totally freaked 
by the sight of a blond Englishman. Further she mentioned liking the 
more "normal" look she had if she got enough sun, but the cover depicted 
the girl as a fair (untanned) blonde.

(THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE BOOK; JUST A COUPLE CHAPTERS!!)

RB
From: gouvea@zariski.harvard.edu (Fernando Gouvea)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Awards lists?
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:34:32 GMT
Organization: Colby College Math/CS Dept




I'm sure this is the F-est of FAQs, but... can anyone tell me where to get
an up-to-date list of SF award winners?


-- 
============================================================================
Fernando Q. Gouvea				fqgouvea@colby.edu
Dept. of Math/CS				(207)-872-3278
Colby College					Mudd 407
From: gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:08:58 -0700
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

> In article <darknite.714209402@camelot>, darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>> In <2A91E697.21641@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>>That's OK, I don't mind speculating.  I don't want another Tigana
>>book, this was great by itself (though I had the nagging feeling that
>>the last scene was there to provide for another book following
>>_Tigana_).
> 
> I _hope_ he writes more, but not another Tigana novel.  The whole
> setting seemed to be set up (and beautifully at that) to tell
> this one story.  Using it in any other plot would be near
> criminal.
> 

Pshaw!  I wouldn't mind him using the same local (since I liked it very much);
just as long as he uses different characters and a different scenario.

JMHO,
Gabor.

    g  b    gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca	"We come in Peace, shoot to kill,
gggg   b    Victoria, B. C.	 	 We come in Peace, shoot to kill, men"
g  g t b    (God's waiting room)		_Star Trekking_, The Firm
ggggtttbbbb  
   g t b  b 		"If I had a rocket launcher
g  g t bbbb		 If I had a rocket launcher,
gggg  tt        	 some son of a bitch would die"  B. Cockburn
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos)
Subject: fourth book in Rama series: Rama Revealed; any info?
Organization: University of Maryland College Park
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:25:08 GMT

In the forward of my copy of Rama_II, Clarke makes reference to the
fact that :

	"...Scott [Clarke's agent] had sold a whole package to
	Bantam's Lou Aronica.  {\it Rama II}, {\it The Garden of Rama}
	and  {\it Rama Revealed} would be written and delivered during the
	1989-1990 period."

Does anyone have any information about the last book of this series,
`Rama Revealed' and the expected date of publication?

louie
From: ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diane Duane-door Into Sunset
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:28:49 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <714209428.F00003@tdkt.kksys.com>, ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
> 
>  Ci> Does Door into Sunset comes immediately
>  Ci> after Door Into Shadow, or are there
>  Ci> any books between the two?  I noticed
>  Ci> that Door Into Shadow was (c) 1983, so
>  Ci> there must be some books that I missed out.
> 
> There are no books in that series that you've missed.  However, if
> you haven't read _So You Want to be a Wizard_, _Deep Wizardry_, and
> _High Wizardry_ (which came out in that gap) then you've certainly
> missed out.  

I was amused to find the following on the inside cover of Duane's
"So You Want to be a Wizard":

    Other books by Diane Duane
          Deep Wizardry
          High Wizardry

    For adults and older readers
          Door Into Fire
          Door Into Shadow

Seems that the "So You Want to be a Wizard" etc falls into the "juvenile"
fiction category.

Just an observation.

#----------------------------------#---------__--------------------------------#
|  W.H.Watt                        #  JANET:                                   |
|  Dept. of Accounting & Finance   #           w.h.watt@uk.ac.strath.vaxa      |
|  University of Strathclyde       #  Rest of the World:                       |
|  Glasgow                         #           w.h.watt@vaxa.strath.ac.uk      |
|  United Kingdom                  #                                           |
#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
From: u9161910@cs.uow.edu.au (Gareth William Omeara)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Author Polls -- Gordon R. Dickson
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:49:49 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

Sorry about posting my votes I meant to mail them.

Gareth.
u9161910@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cliff@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Cliff Chen)
Subject: Re: K. Kurtz' Deryni series
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:15:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.204510.12770@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> eah4@po.CWRU.Edu (Elizabeth A. Hlabse) writes:
>In a previous article, tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson) says:
>>Does anyone know if any new books in Katherine Kurtz Deryni series have 
>>been published in the last two years?
>
>Javan's Year (book two in the Heirs of St. Camber trilogy) is due
>out in November in hardback.  Katherine has been rather busy with
>the Adept series (which I highly recommend) and the new place in
>Ireland.  She's also working on a book set during the American
>Revolution (Crown for Two Kings) that is a lot like Lammas Night.
>

	Actually, in an interview with Katherine Kurtz, she said that after
she finished Javan's Year and the Adept Book 2, the multitude of fan
letters that she got has made her decide to put everything else on hold and
start work on The Quest for Saint Camber Book 4!  The whole reason behind
the book:  To get Kelson married.

						Cliff Chen
						cliff@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Jay Score
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:07:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.064458.9681@csusac.csus.edu> potter@csusac.ecs.csus.edu (Carl Kolchak) writes:
>
>  but my favorite robot-like character in all of SF is Eric
>  Frank Russell's "Jay Score," who was obviously a primary model
>  for the Great Bird's "Spock."

Spock was modelled mainly on a man named William(?) Parker who was chief of
the LAPD from 1950 (or perhaps it was 1955) to 1966.  I read this recently
in a newspaper story about Darryl Gates, but have fuzzed out some of the
details.  I remember it said that the Great Bird was Parker's speechwriter
for years, described him as "the most logical human being I ever met", and
explicitly modelled Spock on him.
--
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dirk@kalium.physik.tu-berlin.de (Dirk Schwarzhans)
Subject: Gardens of Rama as paperback in the UK?
Reply-To: dirk@kalium.physik.tu-berlin.de
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:42:32 GMT

Hallo,

does anyone know, if the book "Gardens of Rama" (A.C. Clarke) is
available as paberback in the UK or the US?

If yes, please tell me the publisher and if possible the
ISBN and the price.


Thank you

Dirk Schwarzhans
From: gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton)
Subject: Re: Card: Maps in a Mirror
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:04:42 GMT

book 1 is the hanged man
book 2 is flux
book 3 is maps in a mirror
book 4 is cruel miracles
book 5 is lost songs

it looks like you have the first 2 of 5.

gb

-- 
gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu.............copyright 1992 gary burton........
From: ssircar@CANON.COM (Subrata Sircar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mercedes Lackey:  How many books are there?
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:50:51 GMT


Having just started reading Winds_of_Fate, I was intrigued by the following  
title mentioned in the book:

The Mage Wars: Era of the Black Gryphon

Has this been published?  By who?  Where can I get my hands on it?

Please email me any information you have - my site doesn't get this group  
(although I'm working on it ...) - especially if this book doesn't exist (yet).   
Thanks!

---
Subrata Sircar|ssircar@canon.com (NextMail ok)|Prophet & SPAMIT Charter Member
Canon Information Systems and I do not share the same views on everything.
"All I have to do is write a thesis, but how hard could that be?" - Jordan
"I seem to suffer from irrelevant flashbacks." - Paul, PAUL THE SAMURAI #1
From: dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Go to alt.fan...we don't want you(was Re: rec.arts.sf.written FAQ)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 13:42:31 GMT
Reply-To: munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac
FollowUp-To: rec.arts.sf.written
 <Bt8voI.Dz0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Keywords: 
Organization: More like Dis~, really.

In article <Bt8voI.Dz0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Eric Chris Garrison writes:

> In article <1992Aug19.181500.545@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
> >Perhaps something that should be added to the FAQ is something akin to the
> >following:
> >
> >"Many popular authors are not held in high esteem by most of the r.a.sf.w
> >crowd.  In particular, coming out with positive comments about Piers Anthony,
> >Anne McCaffrey, or David Eddings is likely to stimulate responses on the order
> 
> Look, this is a PUBLIC forum for discussing written science fiction
> and fantasy.  Not just "real" SF.  Not just "classic" SF.  Not
> just YOUR idea of what is good, not just what is MY idea of what 
> is good.  I think it is awfully pompous of you to presume to 
> decide what is not _real_ SF.  Why don't you create a newsgroup

Please, feel free to wax lyrical on your very special subject
"Why I think Piers Anthony deserves to win every literary prize
in existence, and then some." Or perhaps compose a heartfelt
admission to the effect that you consider the _Gor_ series to be
the most wonderfully accurate, true to life, 'SCIFI', that
you've ever encountered.

Admit to a fetish for Jack L. Chalker's never ending
shape-changing series. 

Go whole hog and put up in LARGE FRIENDLY LETTERS how WONDERFULLY
INNOVATIVE you find Douglas Adams' work, especially the bits
where he said he really liked using a Macintrash. [Whilst you're
at it, you might put icing on the cake by admitting to owning a
Mac :-)]

I'll watch the collective r.a.sf.written reaction from a safe
distance.

What Aaron stated is mostly true - formula authors are generally
dismissed.

There are no absolutes - of course. Just guidelines.

Have a thoughful day.

> Eric Chris Garrison			      UCS Support Center

Dac
--
	Paid up member of "I like E.E. "Doc" Smith novels and wear a
	dorky badge to prove it" club.
munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac      David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
  prolix!dac%eyrie@labtam.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
        dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au      I post .
prolix!dac@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au            . . I am.             +61 6 290 2215
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Accurate covers (was Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover)
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:05:55 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1992Aug8.183546.11966@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca> pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein) writes:
>Since the topic of misrepresentational covers has come up so often, I have a
>question for the net.
>Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
>contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
>accurate?

Hmm.. Let me see..

The US covers for Anne McCaffrey's "White Dragon" (probably the best cover
I've seen of the series) and "All The Weyrs of Pern", and the UK cover of
DragonQuest.

I think most of James P Hogans 'Giants' series had reasonably accurate covers.

Covers seem to fall into three groups:

Related to the book and accurate,

Related to the book and inaccurate (Where you can tell it's _meant_ to be
based on the book, but they've altered age/clothing/colour). Examples of
this type are the UK covers of Mercedes Lackey's "Arrows" series, which
all show Talia with a sword (which the books explicitly rule out), all the
same age (wrong) and I think they've switched the colours away from pure
Heraldic Whites. Even so, you see they're meant to be based on the books.
Ho Hum. The US covers of the "Last Herald Mage" series are a lot better,
but still all show Vanyel at the same age.

Unrelated/recycled - nothing to do with the book at all. Either the
artist hadn't read the book, or the publisher recycled a different picture.


-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer>     +44 442 230000 |   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (was jc@cel.co.uk) or jc@cel.uucp      x3868 |   \_|__
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11235 rec.arts.sf.science:2563 sci.bio:2982
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.bio
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:27:03 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug19.085332.10565@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>In article <rwallace.713710067@unix1.tcd.ie> rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace) writes:

>>...genes for wanting to have as many children as possible are likely to
>>become more and more prevalent as time goes on, simply because people
>>who choose to have more children are going to have more surviving
>>offspring in the next generation.

>It is probable that there is no such thing as "genes for wanting more 
>children", and there won't be for a very long time. 

I disagree.  See below.

>Only a few generations ago, we started short-circuiting this process
>with birth control.  Sexual behavior is no longer sufficient.  With
>perfect birth control, a "conscious" decision is required.  What
>motivates such a decision?  A combination of complex cultural
>and perhaps biological factors.  For a genetic adaptation,
>we need an innate emotional response that would somehow override the cultural
>factors. 

Note that we already do.  Why is it that despite the cost and
inconvenience of having children the vast majority of people have them
despite access to birth control?  Is it all cultural?  It seems to
happen in every culture so that seems unlikely.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11236 rec.arts.sf.science:2564
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:31:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug20.013132.21310
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug19.233451.15968@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

[quoting a claim that pre-industrial families averaged 4-5 children
survivng to maturity]

>That seems hard to believe.  If it was true, then just assuming 25
>year generations it would have taken only 500 years to multiply the
>population of Europe by a factor of 1,000,000.  Even today there are
>under a billion people in Europe.  500 years ago there were far more
>than 1,000.  Where's the hole in the logic?

This assumes that everyone marries and raises a family.  Poor girls had
a difficult time finding husbands in societies with dowry customs, and
many never married; there were also celibate religious of both sexes; 
and a lot of men died in war in young adulthood, before having children.

More importantly, it ignores the periodic kill-off cycles, especially
the Black Death, which reduced the population by nearly 2/3 in some
areas.  European population *did* tend to increase, but disasters kept
trimming it back.

Overcrowding humans tends to lead to famine, pestilence and war, which
lead to death; the Four Horsemen who keep us from covering the entire
surface of the planet.  Our cycles are just less dramatic than the
Moties'.

Barbara Tuchmann's _A Distant Mirror_ is a good look at pre-industrial
England and what made it tick, and is as good a picture of an alien
society as you're likely to find in SF.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu