HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rice@scws7.harvard.edu (Ken Rice)
Subject: 5881 Tube Summary
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Museum of Comparative Zoology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:19:47 GMT


This is a summary of responses to my questions about 5881 tubes.
Thanks to TJK, Edward A. Oates, Mike Squires, and Carlyle J. Rabe.

The 5881 is related to the 6L6, a tube much used in guitar amps from 
Fender and Mesa, e.g..  It's also called the 6L6WGB.  5881 is the 
JAN designation. The 6L6GC is plug-compatible.

A new Fender amp is said to use the 5881.  Pro music stores 
carry these tubes from Fender (ordinary quality) and from
Mesa (very high quality).  The Fender and Mesa labels are rolled
onto tubes manufactured by someone else.  Mesa produces matched
sets of 6L6's and El34's for their Class A and Simulclass amps.

These tubes are available from pro music stores for less than they
can be obtained from audiophile sources.  Guitar Showcase in San
Jose, CA, USA was mentioned as a possible source.  Also, it was
mentioned that any real electronics supply place that sells tubes 
should have them. 

One respondent recalls that these tubes were used in comsumer
receivers of the late 50's -- perhaps in the Fisher 500C.

Davilyn Corp. in North Hollywood (1.800.235.6222) carries US-made
5881's.

Thanks to all who responded.  Errors contained herein are 
doubtlessly mine.

Ken

-- 
----
internet: rice@mcz.harvard.edu rice@husc.harvard.edu
  bitnet: rice@husc.bitnet

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de
Subject: Re: Need help for buying a $5000 system(rebuts)
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to rec.audio.high-end
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:05:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.141611.29711@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, 
  dg@mtqua.att.com (Duane Galensky) writes:

> .....what would be the 
> purpose of taking along someone with better hearing to audition 
> the equipment that you intend to buy, other than to convince
> you to buy something more expensive than you personally can
> appreciate?

  It is a fact, beloved of equipment manufacturers and despaired
of by bank managers, that human perception is a relative thing.
This means that although you might not appreciate subtleties in
the reproduction at present, if you buy a system that reveals
those subtleties you will start to notice and regret their absence
on lesser systems.  Even if you buy a system that only reveals
some of the detail, imagine your chagrin when you are next in a
hi-fi store (once started it's hard to stop going in there) and
find that you could have bought something that reveals even more of
the music for the same price or less, and that with your new-found,
halfway-house discernment you now want the full picture despite
having previously not cared or even realised that things were amiss.

  In my own experience I found other advantages too.  Taking a pair
of knowledgeable ears along can speed up the convergence to a happy
purchase.  I would often feel that something was not right about the
sound I was hearing, my tame expert could express what that something
was, which made it a lot easier for the salesperson to find a new
componant that had the characteristic I was looking for.  Also, in
the one shop where a hard sell was attempted, having two people to
persuade made most of the usual sales ploys redundant.

  Of course, it's your money that is being spent, but a little advice
from someone who knows what they are talking about can't hurt.  If there
is no-one in your area whose judgement you respect, then for a nominal
sum (say, the price of a pair of Martin Logan Quests) plus expenses I
might be persuaded to fly over to the States and help you out :-)

Struan

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Subject: Re: Should I buy Nakamichi?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:02:53 GMT


In article <1992Aug17.145459.18233@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> vvdag@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Don Georgevich) writes:
>I am contemplating the purchase of a Nakamichi preamp CA-5 and amplifier PA-5.
>Both are used and in excellent condition with a very sweet price tag attached.
> 
>My only concern is that the preamp has no tone controls.  Will this be a problem for me?  Why did Nakamichi strip this preamp of its tone controls.  After all,
>they sold it for almost $800 new.
>
>Can someone out there offer me their advice on this equipment? 

Thinking that the pre-amp has been "stripped" of its tone controls
is not the 'high-end' way of thinking. You should think "the signal
degrading tone control circuitry has been omitted". Leaving out 
the tone controls is not a cost-cutting move, it is a deliberate
quality decision.

The preceding paragraph should be taken with 1/2 a :-)

I have a Nak CA-5 and am very happy with it. I've never wished,
in several years of use, that I had a tone control to fiddle
with. It always sounds "just right" and I've no urge to tweak it.

Look at it this way - how often have you turned the tone controls
off of the 'flat' position on your existing pre-amp? If seldom
or never, go for the CA-5; if you've fiddled with the tone controls
a lot, go for some other preamp.

(I thought the CA-5 went for a lot more, list price, than $800?)

I *do* wish the CA-5 had a better switching arrangement for
using two tape decks to duplicate tapes, though. The CA-7 is
superior in this regard.

Michael Stimac
-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: weems@cs.umass.edu (CHIP WEEMS)
Subject: Re: KEF Status?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts CS Department
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:38:22 GMT


In article <1992Aug13.201300.18940@mcc.com>, engelke@maximillion.mcc.com (Ned Engelke) writes...
>Does anyone out there have any information about what is
>going on with KEF?

KEF is (or was) up for sale along with Meridian and Celestion. Celestion the
audio company was owned by another Celestion, which is a conglomerate (I think
they're big into baked goods or something like that -- one of our UK readers
can probably set us straight). The parent Celestion is selling the audio company
which in turn owns KEF and Meridian.

Bob Stuart of Meridian has put together a deal to take control of Meridian, and
I vaguely recall hearing that a separate deal was in the works for KEF too. I
don't know about Celestion. I saw something in the August Stereophile, but just
skimmed it (hence my vagueness here).

Usually, when something like this happens, the new owners reevaluate their
foreign distributors and often choose somebody new, which may account for
your dealer's inability to get anyone at "KEF". When they say this, they really
mean the distributor (a company in Chantilly VA, for which KEF was just one
of many product lines).

At one point I called the KEF/Meridian distributor and was thoroughly
unimpressed. I was asking for local dealers and the best they could do
was manually thumb through a printout (which it took a while to find) and
list the dealers by state. There were so few dealers, that this wasn't
very time consuming, and the person had no idea of what was close to me
anyway. As it turned out, about half of the dealers she listed had dropped
the product lines (some as much as six months earlier) and only two were
full line dealers.

It was pretty obvious that KEF and Meridian were not being well served by
this unaggressive, poorly organized market representative. I hope they do
get a new and better distributor with this reorganization.

Chip

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: kester@mat.mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)
Subject: Roksan turntables
Posted-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 17: 25:53 GMT
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Mat. Sci. & Eng., NCSU
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:54:12 GMT
	for info-high-audio@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
	for rec-audio-high-end@speedy.mcnc.org

I'm looking for information on the Roksan turntables, specifically the Roksan
Radius with the Tabriz arm.  Does anyone have any experience with them?  How do
they compare to other turntables?  Are they generally considered great, good,
so-so, terrible, or what?  Any comments, experiences, other information, will
be much appreciated.  Thanks!

Dan Kester
kester@mte.ncsu.edu
 

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: weems@cs.umass.edu (CHIP WEEMS)
Subject: Re: KEF Status?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts CS Department
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:38:53 GMT


In article <1992Aug13.201300.18940@mcc.com>, engelke@maximillion.mcc.com (Ned Engelke) writes...
>Does anyone out there have any information about what is
>going on with KEF?

OK, I dug out the Sterophile article, and here is the correct info.

The parent of Celestion International Ltd. (Celestion Industries plc, 
a maker of textile products) has sold KEF and Celestion to Kinergetics 
Holdings Ltd., which consists of two venture firms, Gold Peak 
Industries of Hong Kong and PL Banner and Associates of Britain.
Paul Banner is the chairman of the new company, and of the American
company Kinergetics Research. Gold Peak holds 50% and Kinergetics
Research holds 40%.  The article does not say who holds the other 10%.
Celestion and KEF will reportedly remain independent divisions of
each other and of Kinergetics Research. While Celestion was a
profitable concern, KEF was not. Thus it is expected that there will
be little change at Celestion but some restructuring at KEF. In
case you're wondering, Kinergetics Holdings paid $8.5 million for
Celestion and the price of KEF was undisclosed.

As stated in my earlier post, Bob Stuart bought back Boothroyd Stuart,
Meridian Audio, and Meridian America. Meridian has been restructured
into Meridian Audio Ltd., holding Meridian America Inc. and Digital
Grammaphone and Wireless Ltd. (the design and manufacturing arm).
They are looking for a new National Sales Manager. Their new number
is (804)520-7200.

The article did not say what KEF would do about their U.S. distribution.
(personally, I hope they find somebody better)

Chip


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: "Keith McIntyre, Software, SMF, 916-823-0200" <KEITH_M1@sfov1.verifone.com>
Subject: Let's get real!
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: VeriFone
 /FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:53:30 GMT
	(queueing-rmail) id 135249.24951; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13: 52:49 EDT
          Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07: 27:10 -1000
 <01GNU2VH0W8G95NJIY@verifone.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07: 26:58 -1000
 <01GNU93GOPCG00242D@sfov1.verifone.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10: 27:02 -0700

This isn't flame bait, but the continual discussions on this newsgroup and
wreck.audio concerning human hearing have gotten a little ridiculous.

For crying out loud! The only "specification" for human ears is freqency
response? Every time people talk about evaluating audio systems all they
seem to ever mention regarding people's hearing is the upper and lower
bounds of their hearing range.

Allow me to list off some of the other "specifications".
1) Dips or valleys in frequency versus sound pressure level. Someone able
   to hear all the way up to 18,000 Hertz may be almost deaf at 6,000 Hertz.
   Exposure to loud noises selectively destroys the ear's ability to hear
   certain frequency bands.
2) Differences between ears. It is an unusual person who has a perfectly
   matched set of ears. The human brain tends to compensate for differences in
   hearing sensitivity between our two ears, but the bias or distortion is
   still there.
3) Amplitude or sound pressure sensitivity. Linearity in amplitude gain is
   such an elusive goal in electronics that amplifier manufacturers don't even
   try to specify it. I've never heard of a test that determines how
   linear someone's ears are in detecting dynamic range. This is usually
   dismissed with a wave of the hands as "psychoacoustics". Personally I
   believe people have vast differences in this area and it accounts for
   a lot of the endless arguing found in high end audio circles.
4) There are three major specifications for any sound: phase, amplitude and
   frequency. How good are your ears at detecting phase accuracy? Is it your
   ears or your brain that does this? Both perhaps?
5) Finally, all this stuff is only half the equation. Evaluating audio gear
   in a typical store is about as relevant as evaluating a high performance
   sports car in a crowded parking lot. The acoustics of a typical audio
   store are horrible. The acoustics in a typical audio freak's listening
   room are only slightly less bad. Acoustical variations from listening
   room to listening room make more of a difference than sticking a finger in
   one of your ears while listening. This is not an exageration.
   Evaluating bass response in most rooms is just wishful thinking.
   Imaging characteristics of planar speakers (Magnepans, Martin Logans,
   Apogees, etc.) are so placement and room sensitive that listening to them
   in a showroom is a waste of time.




Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: Deryk Barker <dbarker@camins.Camosun.BC.CA>
Subject: Apogee Stage subwoofers
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:07:28 GMT
          10: 29:03 PDT

Some time ago somebody mentioned a forthcoming dedicated subwoofer for
the Apogee Stages. Does anyone have more info, like availability or
(gulp) price?
---
===============================================================
|Deryk Barker Computer Science Dept.  | Without music life    |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC	      | would be a mistake    |
|Canada 			      | (Friedrich Nietsche). |
===============================================================

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: checksix@flyboy.EBay.Sun.COM (Al Conte)
Subject: Re: Amps for B&W 801s
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: checksix@flyboy.EBay.Sun.COM (Al Conte)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:14:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.203210.13995@u.washington.edu>, colling@pythagoras.math.washington.edu (David Collingwood) writes:
 Also, can someone tell me why the heck Levinson gear is so 
>pricey?
> 
>

I don't know why also, especially when if you compare it to the
Spectral DMA-180, the ML sounds like junk.!!!
Go listen to the DMA- 180 before you plunk down your cash.
The 801s will never sound better than with the DMA-180.



Al

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: widener!wissel.stern.nyu.edu!sbhattac@cmcl2.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Subject: Re: preamp
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:39:21 GMT
  (5.65c/Widener-4.2 for cmcl2!rec-audio-high-end); Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22: 30:27 -0400


In article <m0mHHun-0001bgC@hernix.org> mike@hernix.org (Mike Herman) writes:
>I've thought about making my own preamp.  I've looked at some info sheets
>on a chip made by Linear Technology.  It really looks good.  The big
>problem I see is getting all the high quality parts.  I've heard of the
>BUF-03, but don't know anything about it.  I might be interested in a
>"semi-kit" of parts, including the board.  I've built a ++-15v power supply

A couple of sources:

Darcy E. Staggs
3412 E. Maple
Orange, CA 92669            ( 714-532-4611 )

Staggs advertises in Audio Amateur that he sells boards for the
Linear Technology design, with on-board regulators and all.

Jerry McNutt
519A Cook St.
Philadelphia, MS 39350      ( 601-656-9277 )

McNutt makes a board usable for the BUF-03, as also for filters and such.
I gather he is willing to sell it as a bare board, or kits at various
stages.

I have no connection with Staggs. I know McNutt slightly. I sold him an amp
a couple of years ago, and we've stayed in touch.

- Shankar

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: rsud@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Rajiv Sud)
Subject: Re: CD players, are they all the same ?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:53:49 GMT




Andy,
	There is a lot you are missing that would take pages to describe.
Lucky for you the typeing has already been done. Seek out the latest issue
of 'The Absolute Sound' and you will find an article that discusses why
transports as well as d/a converters are different.

	You'll also read that sony has recently annouced that they have
improved on perfection. And that prefection, sony's version anyways,
was flawed. Soon they'll have a whole slew of better than perfect sound
products for everyone.

..Rajiv
From: skao@tcs.com (Simon Kao)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Spica upgrading
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:38:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: tcsi.1992Aug14.193431.19742
Organization: Teknekron Communications, Inc
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


Recently, I was shopping for pre-amps and took home a Conrad-Johnson P[?]-10.
It sounded ok (driven by a low-end CD player; into an Adcom 545II and Spica
TC-50s), but didn't represent $1000 of benefit. When I took it back and said
as much to the salesman, he pointed out that the rest of my system wasn't 
using the potential of the C-J, especially the speakers. But, he said, if you
buy the pre-amp, I can tell you how to make your Spicas sound much better.
Ah, salesmanship. He said that there are some low quality parts in the 
crossover that could be upgraded and improve the sound. I decided not to
part with the bucks, so I still would like to know what modifications can
be made (if any) to the electronics of the Spica, and, do they work, and, if
they do, how is the sound changed?

-Simon Kao
skao@tcs.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: hunter@work.nlm.nih.gov (Larry Hunter)
Subject: Re: Eminent Technology Model 8s
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: National Library of Medicine
	<1992Aug12.212545.17920@tc.cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:20:30 GMT


In response to Michael Stimac's statement:
   >You won't find a discount - Magnepan only sells to dealers
   >who agree not to discount their product.

Julian Vrieslander writes:

   Is this legal?

Well, I had a long and public disagreement about Sony's version of this policy
with Charlie Mingo on rec.audio last September.  Mingo, a lawyer from Chicago
U., provided the relevant citation.  It turns out that the Nixon/Ford/Reagan
Supreme Court declared this legal in 1988:

Me:

 > If Sony refuses to allocate units to retailers that are willing to sell at
 > a discount, that's price fixing.

Mingo:

 Actually, that's "retail price maintenance."  "Price fixing" is when direct
 competitors collaborate (ie, a horizontal monopoly).  RPM relates to vertical
 monopolization....

 Sony is only one producer in a large market.  Sony can decide how it wants to
 distribute its own products, and if their startegy is uncompetitive, then
 their brand will suffer in relation to others.  However, there is no evidence
 that a market dominated by discount dealers is necessarily the most
 competitive....

 [Your] theory of antitrust was finally repudiated by the US Supreme Court in
 the 1988 case of Sharp v. Business Electronics, which established that Retail
 Price Maintenance can never violate the antitrust laws.


Feel better now?

		Larry

--
Lawrence Hunter, PhD.
National Library of Medicine
Bldg. 38A, MS-54
Bethesda. MD 20894
(301) 496-9300
(301) 496-0673 (fax)
hunter@nlm.nih.gov (internet)
From: tcheung@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Tak Cheung)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Power conditioners, e.g. Tice, PowerWedge,...
Keywords: Seeking opinions on power conditioners
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:18:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: gandalf.Aug.13.15.09.11.1992.27006
Distribution: rec.audio.high-end
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


Well, having seen one or two posts on power conditioners, I think I'll
stir it up again.  

How many readers here own or have tried power conditioners for their
systems ??

I think the power to the hi-fi system has much more effect than most
people realize.

I (like most people here have engineering degrees), was not convinced
about the effect of power conditioner units, (like I didn't believe
cables would make a difference sometimes big difference).

I tried out a PowerWedge unit and ended up buying it.  I did not turn
my system from night to day but it makes enough of a difference that
I think is worth while.

I also tried substituting heavy duty power cords for most of my 
equipment with detachable power cords and YES , they (power cords)
also change the sound of the system.  

I thought these cable guys were looney tunes coming out with power
cords costing $400.  I'm not sure about the price but the sound of
the system certainly changes (for better or for worse) depending
how you like the outcome.

If one keeps at this, should I then change all the cables to the
power main (as many audiophiles now advocates having new lines
from the street to their abodes) ??  If so, then how about those
in-line fuses or circuit breakers ??  

Before you know it, I would ask my utility company to have a
dedicated line from the 2200V transformer to my house and I'll
special order a silver wire-wound step-down transformer next to
my house (with heavy copper shielding of course).

Seriously, what other opinions or experience have you had with
this power errr trip ??  I also found if I turned on my digital
tuner while listerning to CD, the sound becomes brighter, and
similarly if I have a computer running.  Yup, kind of like having
a radio shack (aka Tice) clock running in the same power circuit.

The question boils down to how does one know one has clean power ??

Is there a device we can use to check out our AC lines ??

Yes, if my next door neighbors turn on their airconditioners, forget
about listerning to hi-fi's, maybe I can just use my wife's Sony
Walkman and take my daughter to the park for an interference free
Mozart, NO, on second thought, there is a radio transmitter next
to the park.  Oh, no, there is just no safe place for us
audiophiles anymore !!


Tak Cheung
"Have you contribute $$$ to your hi-fi dealers lately ??"
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Re: what have we learned
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:05:05 GMT

Duane Galensky writes:
>indeed, these "electrical" instruments are just as valid
>a "real thing" as acoustic instruments.   in terms of
>the quality of reproduction in a listening environment,
>however, electric instruments seem to be easier to reproduce
>accurately, perhaps because of the mechanics with which
>the original sound was produced...or because it's much
>easier to get hold of a complete signal with relevant
>overtones than is readily possible with acoustic instruments
>(with much more complex harmonic structure).
>
>duane
>
It may have a lot to do with the type of effects electronics and recording
has on any music.  With electronic instruments the change is similar to the
sound which you get hearing these live because your stereo is not
dissimilar to the instrument anyway.  An analogy might be the sound of my
portable windup 78 player which sounds remarkably good on brass but
remarkably bad on strings.  I think the distortions introduced by its tin
horn are more similar to the effects which make a brass instrument sound
the way it does live than to the way a violin works, hence the better sound
on brass- the distortion is of a less offensive nature in this
circumstance.

----------------------------------------
Peter Campbell
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O.
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601
Australia  (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Ph.61-6-2464158 (w), 61-6-2516213 (h)
----------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end