HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Help with flexibility
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:13:35 GMT

In article cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
> Hello, I have been training in the martial arts ( Karate ) for several years
> now and I still have a problem with my flexibility. When I train several
> times in a week, my muscles become stiff and sore due to overstretching I
> guess. I stretch every time I train , before training. I would like to know
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The best time to do serious stretching is *after* you are
thoroughly warmed up.  By stretching before training instead of
afterwards, you are pushing relatively cold muscles too far and
tearing too much muscle fiber in the process.  Stretching
afterwards also helps dissipate the lactic acid built up in your
muscles as a waste product of your workout.  No wonder you are
sore!

> what is the best way to stretch to attain maximum flexibility? Is it 
> every day, every second day?  Do I pull hard for a short while or do I
> pull soft for a long time ? When my muscles hurt, do I stretch them or do
> I wait for several days for the pain to dissappear before I stretch again?
> This is frustrating, after so many years, my muscles still stiffen after
> heavy stretching. I am 22 years old if this is a factor in it.

Once again, it sounds to me like warming up first is a much more
important issue for you than technique or frequency of
stretching.  The first priority is to stop tearing too much fiber
and leaving your muscles awash in waste products.  My experience
is that barring injury or illness, you can and should be
stretching every day, if only to maintain your current level of
flexibility.  But, if you miss a day (or even a week) here and
there, no big deal.  Flexibility is lost just about as slowly as
it is gained.  As for technique, any of the several good
stretching books on the market will tell you all you need to
know.  Or, ask your most flexible training partner how he got
and stays that way.

> I would appreciate any help with this problem, also can you point out
> the right professional to see for this ie: M.D. or P.T. or O.T. ???

Speaking strictly as a cyber-entity and absolutely not as an
employee of the NIH, I don't think the "professionals" have much
to offer in this area that you can't handle at least as well for
yourself.  Buy a few books, talk to your fellow MAs, pay
attention to what your body tells you, and spend what you would
have paid a professional on your girlfriend (or whatever).  You
will see a much better ROI.

> Martin Cholete
> cholette@jsp.umontreal.ca

--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Here is a source for Egami's book
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:00:34 GMT
Reply-To: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

I was sent the address of the publisher of "The Heart of Karate-Do" by
Bennet Cromwell.  Bennet was unable to post to rec.m-a and asked me to relay
the info to all interested.

************
	  Wehman Brothers, Inc.
          Morris County Mall
          Ridgedale Ave.
          Cedar Knolls, NJ  USA   07927

          201-539-6300

     I get to read rec.martial-arts, but not post, so please pass this
information along to whomever wants it. Thank you.

Bennett Crowell
pncsdbc@ccvax1.cc.ncsu.edu

PS: I was told that the hardcover price is $15.50 (US).
*************


regards,
tommy
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kicking from the ground
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:50:26 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep11.144246.18504@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>she got her legs around his waist and squeezed until he passed out.

	<pardon me until I stop laughing...>

	There are a series of very effective chokes using the leg
scissors; in judo it's illegal to apply a leg scissors directly so
we do it by sliding a hand in between one leg and the guy's neck.  But
unless you could squeeze hard enough to crush someone's ribs it's difficult
to believe you could use a leg scissors to the trunk as a valid self-defense
technique...  It's not even a good way to control your opponent on the
ground.
								wr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wincor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Upcoming Tournaments
Reply-To: wincor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 23:19:19 GMT

Does anybody have a list of upcoming tournaments in the Bay Area?
San Francisco, San Jose, etc.  I have a group of kids that have 
just started learning the arts that would like to try a tournament out.

Thanks
Steve
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Keywords: Aikido TaeKwonDo
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:54:50 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <BuDAv0.M3M@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:
[..]
>The only other problem was that when I started to feel rushed - like
>in the line drills where people line up and run at you one after the
>other, my leg would come up and start to kick.  It would startle the
>person rushing me and amuse everyone else.  Also, sometimes I would
>block the person grabbing me rather than using their grab to throw
>them.
[..]

  I'd say this sounds like a benefit more than a problem.  The biggest
problem with the sorts of practices you describe (line-type) is that the
attackers rush "zombily" forward with no cognizance of the defender's
potential for delivering strikes/kicks.  This makes such exercises
disappointingly unrealistic.  My opinion is that all attacks (striking or
grabbing) in aikido have to be focussed (whether fast or slow), and that as
uke attacks, s/he should always pay attention to what nage is doing and what
nage has the potential to do.  This doesn't necessarily mean being
"uncommitted" (I've never understood this idea some aikidoists have that a
committed attack is one in which the attacker is pathetically off balance). 
So your reflex of bringing your leg up is probably a good way to remind your
uke to keep on his/her toes.


--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Savate and Muay Thai kicking principles (was Boxing and Kicks)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:16:43 GMT

In article <5396@sersun1.essex.ac.uk> zhou@essex.ac.uk (Zhou J) writes:
>
>Ok,  Peter,  I know you were mainly talking about Muay Thay kicks but that's
>not doing enough justice to Muay Thai.:-)  Thaiboxers also do much damage on 
>each other by using elbows and knees, that`s what I have seen and heard anyway.


Well, it wasn't what Todd asked about.  But you're quite correct, and
your answer goes a long ways to answering Cherry's original question
(does boxing + kicks == Muay Thai?).  Much of the strategy, repertoire,
etc., of Muay Thai is dictated by the ever-present possibility of
one's opponent throwing a knee, elbow, or clinching (and throwing
knees and elbows).  The absence of such considerations (like in
PKA fighting) allows riskier strategies...

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
55428                |                |way: he would stroll out the window..."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung)
Subject: Re: *********************** Help with flexibility ****************
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 01:32:37 GMT

In the previous post Robert writes:

>my plan : morning dynamic stretches & 3 times a week or more complete
>dynamic & static stretch workout.
>
>I read in a book "Stretching Scientifically"...haven't got the book here
>so don't know the author....that morning stretches help the
>soreness a lot.
>

Could someone explain dynamic and static stretching?....Thanks...

-F.
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Calibre Press Address
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:26:34 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


Calibre Press Inc. 6660 Dundee Rd.  Suite 1607   Northbrook IL 60062-2727

(800) 323-0037  (708) 498-5680

Don't ask me why you would want the second number, I just have it in
my database that's all. 

The tape costs $50.00, which I have decided not to pay just yet.  It is
a great flick though, if you want to get really scared about knives.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: style help?
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:38:07 GMT

 
 
I have experienced several different styles in my time as
a martial artist. I have yet to find the style for me. I wanted to
ask if anyone knew of any particular styles that had the same sense
of physical meditation as Tai Chi, but had a little more apparent use
in the real world. And, if you know, do you know of any instructors in
the Akron, Ohio area?
From: Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: pull/sprain
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:43:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <BuLnEw.1rD@news.udel.edu> rajagopa@me.udel.edu (Gopalakrishnan Rajagopalan) writes:
>I sprained the lower part of my gluts while doing splits on chairs.
>Considering it to be a case of a simple sprain I proceded on a dosage
>of Ibuprofen but this did not work. Ben Gay etc proved futile.
>I desperately need some advice on what corrective steps to take so that
>I can get back into training as early as possible. Incidentally I have a green
>in taekwondo and am really raring to resume practice.
>Waiting for a positive reply soon.
>Thanx in advance
>Gopal

Even if you can't work out GO TO CLASS.  It is very informative just to 
watch everyone else for a change.  (Of course when train you are never
concerned with what everyone else is doing; only what you are doing.)

				-Monta

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Summary: Some more points on crossing Aiki and Tae Kwon
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 10 SEP 92 13:41:00    


I think there are too many factors to effectively generalize about what will
happen to your streetfighting skill when you first start cross training or
changing styles, but I think it's possible that your sparring
skill in either your old or new style will initially suffer for a while,
even when you gain a fair amount of skill in the new style, because of the
confusion in TIMING, and partly strategy.  Figuring out what kind of things to 
do in what situations, what openings to respond to, what range to favor,
and so on.  These sorts of things because natural if you're good at
sparring, and they change around from style to style, especially styles
as different as Aikido and TKD.  The fighting cadence is very different between
these arts.  Your broken rhythm attack, effective in TKD, turns into an 
awkward kokyu-nage, since matching the tempo of the opponent's movement is
more critial in Aikido.

That's in addition to the more obvious problems of having to suppress 
kicks and punches and do Aikido movements instead, and the other problem 
previously mentioned of applying strength in the wrong way (Kime/focus is
very different between most karate styles and Aikido).  That sort of thing
seems to get resolved in a pure new-style environment well within a
year or two, as you get accustomed to responding differently to similar
cues.  But the overall timing is more subtle thing and is likely to
cause you to have to either switch your whole approach completely
around and abandon your previous art, or take specific steps to incorporate
your old skills.  There's likely to be *some* transfer of old TKD skills 
along with Aikido skills into new fighting situations, but I don't think
they will be consistent, from what I've seen.   In my case, I had to
focus entirely on Aikido for a number of years, and then try to get back
into other training, in other to reasonably well internallize the Aikido
skills.  And it's no foregone conclusion that I've been entirely successful 
so far in blending them.

							kind regards,
								todd
From: scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Date: 11 Sep 1992 13:26:44 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

>In article <1992Sep9.001222.22906@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>
>3. If you took american boxing and added kicks
>to it, wouldnt it just, eventually, evolve into
>something like Thai kickboxing?   Or not?
>

	Probably not, because Thai boxing isn't just american boxing plus
kicks.  Thai boxing incorporates knee and elbow strikes as well.  Here's
some of the reasons why it won't evolve into Thai boxing.

	1) Thai boxing allows grabbing of opponent's limbs (legs included), 
	   a stiff arm to the face is legal.
	- Kicks will have to be fast and powerful, and brought down on the 
	ground before it gets grabbed.  You won't see any "rapid fire"
	roundhouse or side kicks.  Thai boxing skills will be uncrisp, in
	a western boxer's point of view because it's a common tactic
	for a Thai boxer to clear opponent's guard with one hand while
	punching with the other.

	2) Thai boxing allows elbow strikes.
	- This is the primary reason why you won't usually see more than
	a three punch combination.  The elbows are used to counter straights,
	hooks, uppercuts, etc.  You won't see a Thai boxer get inside and
	work the body like a western boxer/kickboxer--it's an invitation
	to an elbow to the face.
	
	3) Thai boxing allows knee strikes.
	- Because of this, a boxer's body will be kept as upright as 
	possible.  There will be little weaving, unlike western boxing 
	because bending your upperbody decreases the distance to the 
	opponent's knee.

	So that's the reasons that I can think of.  Fighting rules are 
the most influential factor in the development of a fighting style.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 10 Sep 1992 00:53:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article Eo7@hsi.com, mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft) writes:
>
>I guess the point I was trying to make was that people who use intimidation
>run the risk of encouraging their opponent as much as frightening them.
>

Yes, that's very true, but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule.
Even if they are "encouraged" they often get a little wild,
making it just about as easy to defeat as if they were psyched the other
way...I think of both ways as psyching the opponent.  But you are right,
you need to be aware that this can happen.

I remember when I did my psych thing during sparring one day, and the guy
said "hey you do that pretty well" and then tried to rip my head off...sort
of a reverse psych I guess (ie: Yea, I know what you are doing, but who cares?).

	-Garth
	    




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Incorporating kicks into boxing (Re: Sigh... boxing)
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:34:55 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Sep10.170332.6201@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>To use an extreme analogy to make a point, it's sort of like giving a chef with 
>a frying pan a Wok as well.  It's a perfectly good tool for some jobs,

Uh, I dunno Todd, I think the analogy falls apart here. The best Chinese
food I ever ate was prepared by my Chinese teacher's wife in a regular
frying pan.

In case there was any doubt: ;^)

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
From: natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:20:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.12510008
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

>
>I'd heard that Teenage Mutant Ninja III will be coming out this fall.   
>Anybody else hear something of the same?
>
>Bill
>----------
  Yeah,  I caught it on Entertainment Tonight.  Filmed in Oregon,
the Turtles go back to Fudal Japan.  Samurai Turtles?  The clips
pictured the turtles fighting Samurai.
                 Natalie
From: mh4e@resumix.portal.com (Michael Heiler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Upcoming Martial Arts Movies
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:51:39 GMT
Reply-To: mh4e@resumix.portal.com
Organization: Resumix, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

Don't forget about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".
Buffy-Jutsu, the martial art of the future.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Flexibility
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:40:50 +0000



>know.  Or, ask your most flexible training partner how he got
>and stays that way.


I would tend to ask someone who is reasonably flexible but has had
a hard time getting there. Usually people who are very flexible are
built that way and cannot understand how difficult it is for everyone
else.


Bill Burgar
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:37:51 GMT

In article <MARY.92Sep8231336@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>something that you can ignore or shrug off.  Covering up -- 
>having your guard up so that your arms are guarding your 
>head -- will help a little, but not enough.  Your arms won't
>stop the kick in this position -- they're just guarding, not
>blocking -- and you'll still get a very solid shot in a 
>very vulnerable target.  If it's something _relatively_ weak
>like a hook kick or a roundhouse kick, at the very least, your
>head will still get snapped back.

Nope.  As I said, I used to use this and those kicks were pretty
easy to deal with.

>As for your friend who's got the bruised foot, I'd venture
>that it wasn't got while throwing a head kick.  I think most
>hard-contact stylists are pretty strongly conditioned to 
>keep the elbows down, where they can protect the ribcage.  

You don't need an elbow to get a bruised foot.  If you kick
the opponent's fist with the top of the foot, it hurts.  If
your opponent does a touch block (aka. palm heel block) to
a roundhouse, you can hyperextend your knee and if he hits
the instep or above the knee, it can hurt a lot.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <716126447snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>Tao Chi Kung Fu, and Bo Jutsu.  I had major problems with moving between
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've heard of an obscure Southern Chinese system called Tao Chi Chuan
that is distinct from T'ai Chi Chuan. Do you mean Tao Chi or Taiji?
Could you elaborate a bit if it is Tao Chi Chuan?

Thanks...

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
From: mhirsch@algorithms.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:08:42 GMT
	<1992Sep12.063420.24017@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
	<1992Sep12.165701.6027@craycos.com>
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Originator: news@nimaster

>>>>> On 12 Sep 92 16:57:01 GMT, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) said:

[snippety]

sog> injured (and I don't think they allow the "model mugger" to hit back, now
sog> do they?). 

Actually, in the graduation I saw, they did, though not all that hard.
Part of the training is not to counterattack until the opportunity is
there for a crippling blow.  So typically she will let herself be
pawed a bit before putting her fingers in his eyes, her knee in his
groin, then, as he doubles over, a knee to his head.  Often there is
no time to hit back.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Aikido and Shomen Attacks.
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:49:25 GMT

is there a "prefered" distance for empty hand aikido techniques such as
shomen/yokomen/munetuski? i sometimes see people attacking from 10 feet
away with these *huge* stylized attacks that are impossible *not* to  
evade. i would think a distance away such that uke need only take one
large step forward to strike you, would be sufficient.

(by "preferred distance" i mean something similar in concept to the
rule of thumb for bokken techniques [1" distance between sword tips].)


-mukund
From: Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: conflict avoidance
Date: 8 Sep 92 13:31:34 GMT
Organization: RAND
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2



Joanne,  I had the opportunity to organize a self-defense class where I
worked, and Maria Doest did the class for women.  Men weren't allowed,
but I heard she was excellent (my girlfriend went).   She will probably
know about the group you're trying to locate.  Maria's number is (310)
398-5539.

Ken