HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:04:44 GMT

hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
: In article <gate.ocooVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
: >Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
: > 
: >> From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
: >> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
: >> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
: >> : Recycling PORCELAIN??? 
: >> Recycle it a different way. Turn it into a reef for fish or other sea
: >> creatures. If they can use tires, I would expect such porcelain to be
: >> even better.
: >> Bill
: >
: >Sounds reasonable. Any marine biologists want to comment? 
: >
: >blessings
: >                                                 A.Lizard
: >
:    I study fish behavior, and the critters I look at just happen to be in
: a marine environment, so I'm not an expert on this.  However, I have read
: a few journal articles about artificial reefs.  One of the problems with
: them is that storms can tear them apart and strew the tires, whatever, all
: over the place.  They then become of little use, and nobody has time or
: money to try and find them and put them together again!

Then they need to put them in deeper water. Wave action generally does not
go below 60 ft of depth - there are thousands of species of marine creatures
who reside below that depth.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:24:55 GMT

In article <gate.ocooVB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>Re: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
> 
>> From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
>> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
>> Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
>> : Recycling PORCELAIN??? 
>> Recycle it a different way. Turn it into a reef for fish or other sea
>> creatures. If they can use tires, I would expect such porcelain to be
>> even better.
>> Bill
>
>Sounds reasonable. Any marine biologists want to comment? 
>
>blessings
>                                                 A.Lizard
>
   I study fish behavior, and the critters I look at just happen to be in
a marine environment, so I'm not an expert on this.  However, I have read
a few journal articles about artificial reefs.  One of the problems with
them is that storms can tear them apart and strew the tires, whatever, all
over the place.  They then become of little use, and nobody has time or
money to try and find them and put them together again!

    --Amy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: peace!
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:29:10 GMT

martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok) writes:
> I hit "k" and managed to kill a buncha stuff ...
> has anyone a clue as to how to read such killed beasts?

This *really* depends on your news reader.  I use "trn", and
with it, an easy way to do this is to wait until another followup
to the topic is posted, and then use the "[" command to go back
to previous postings.

If you use *any* of the derivatives of "rn", you can mark the
entire topic as not having been read with a command that looks
something like:
	/SUBJECT-LINE/:m
Where you replace "SUBJECT-LINE" with whatever the real subject
line is.  Of course, this will mark postings that you *have*
read as being unread, in addition to the ones which you want
back.

Good luck, and Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: skyclad ritual
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:05:11 GMT
Summary: who and why?
Keywords: skyclad

I have a question. How many of you work skyclad and if so why do you
work skyclad? I am wondering because I have just been introduced
to a circle whose members apparently prefer to work skyclad. I have
never worked skyclad myself and am not sure that I have a need to.
I have no problem being nude but am not sure what value add there is
to ritual working with no clothes. I am not for doing it just to do
it, so I thought I would ask for peoples beliefs or feelings about it
here to get a wide range of thought. So what is it? Do you work
skyclad, and why?

Thanks for any and all input.

Blessings

al

-- 
Al Aldrich aaldrich@encore.com 305-797-2335
"Mythology: The body of a primitive people's beliefs concerning its
origin, early history, heroes, deities and so forth, as distinguished
from the true accounts which it invents later." -- Ambrose Bierce
From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: A Darkover type circle
Keywords: aura, matrix, energies
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:25:26 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park


Well, this may help. I ran into a referance in one of the Robert Monroe books
(I forget each one) That out of body experiences have a chracteristic brain 
wvae  wave pattern that is associated with thier occurence.
The Monroe Institute has done some re-search in this area.. I'll have to see if 
I can did dig it up.....

In case you are wondering, Mor Monroe was a buisness man who one day
just started falling 'out' of his body (asteral projection?)
he went to all the best doctpors, and none could find the cause.
So he wrote about it, and eventualy set up an institute to study the
phenomena. He tried very hard to document this scientificaly. Did a good 
job.
 Jagura oop.. dyslexia strikes agian... Jaguar
Frohe Wienachten!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Angela Johnson <Angela_Johnson@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 16:07:04 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <lihit5INN7kd@news.bbn.com> Dawn Hardin, dhardin@bbn.com
writes:
> Personally, I think Alizard was performing an act of kindness, but you
may disagree.

Disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!  Alizard rarely displays an act of kindness towards
anyone on ANY of the groups!

>Especially since .... has demonstrated a fair share of brains elsewhere.

Did you read Ashley's original posting on this subject?  The posting
provided clear-cut IDEAS for recycling; others have also provided
good ideas.  I don't think anyone should be criticized, especially
publically, about his/her ideas.  Even if you DO disagree with 
some ideas, criticism could be given more discreetly and constructively.  

However, I don't think personally attacking Ashley or anyone else on
this, or 
other groups, is necessary - that DOES demonstrate "a fair share of brains
elsewhere" and a lack of consideration for others views/feelings/opinion,
etc.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan Mussell ~)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Truth???/Psychiatrists and homosexuality.
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:31:30 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA

To consider on an even broader scale, pathology vs. "norms," and that fact
that both are inevitably social constructs (what else could they be?) -

San Francisco psychologist Charles Ponce traces the history of the DSM in
a little book entitled _The Archetype of the Unconscious and the Transfig-
uration of Therapy_.

Apparently a large number of US troops in WWI suffered "shell shock," or
breakdown in combat.  At the start of WWII, the Marine Corps commissioned
a staff of psychiatrists and psychologists to prepare a battery of tests
to establish a profile of soldiers who could withstand combat.  The
effort was successful, for in WWII, the marine corps "shell schock"
rate was about 3%, as opposed to double digits in WWI.  This research was
continued and extended after the war, to produce the DSM and it's various
iterations. 

In other words, our cultural definitions of psychopathology originated
against the "norm" of the personality of an effective combat soldier. 

Specific qualities included acceptance of authority, loyalty to a group,
abiltiy to withstand pain, fear and discomfort for a cause, etc.  That is,
almost everyone can think of instances where that's the precise mode of
operation called for.

The problem of course, is the definition of such a personality style as
"normal."  Or perhaps the concept of "normal" per se, for what fits into
that box constantly shifts.  

Morgan Mussell          mmussell@mcd.intel.com
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: Telling my parents I'm pagan
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:04:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.223907.27077@newsgate.sps.mot.com> George Paap <george_paap@email.sps.mot.com> writes:
>[...]
>
>I realize that my beliefs and vocalization of them
>have a profound effect on those who love me.  For example, if my 87
>year old "pious" grandmother found out that I was a witch, it would
>be absolutely devastating to her, to the point that I would worry about
>her physical, emotional, and mental state.  Therefore, I choose to
>conform to her "beliefs" about me, when I'm around her, because I love
>her and care about her well being, more than my ego wants to say
>"This is who I am and what I believe and if you don't like it, too bad."
>If she opens up to me about her personal beliefs, I would probably
>open up to her about mine, but that is her choice.
>
>[...]

"An' it harm none, do what thou wilt."

I've face this same situation myself.  My conclusion is that it would
do more harm to the individuals concerned than good for me.  Thus, I
relax my normally strong distaste for religious hypocrisy and say
nothing out of the ordinary.  I believe I am doing a "good deed" for
those involved, because they will not fear me, or worry about my soul.
I will not lie, however, if I'm ever asked directly.

BB,

Jeff H...

==============================================================================
 Jeff Heimberger * heimberg@pacific.mitre.org * "Relax, it's only 1s and 0s." 
==============================================================================
From: napalm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (jason hill)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:30:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

hehehehe well this is my first time posting (another lurker emerges)
anyhow ive been lurking a long time and final learned how to post.

anyway have you ever noticed that the pentacle includes a anarchy 
symbol?  i like to draw them to gether w/ the each symbol in a different
color or different lines what have you

jason
visualise whirsed peas
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: On an up note,
Date: 17 Dec 1992 06:45:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Well, I like Alamosa, CO. It is real quiet here. The Great Sand
Dunes are nearby. Also, the entire San Luis Valley is absolutely
ALIVE with energies. Granted, not all of them are positive, but neither
are they all negative. As soon as I saw this place, I fell in love.

-- 
Ray Henry - cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu

Nice, boring, empty sigfile goes here.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: vrauls@nmsu.edu (goddess)
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Organization: Computing Research Lab
	<1992Dec13.021247.12315@news2.cis.umn.edu>
	<1992Dec13.052233.15840@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
	<1992Dec13.190512.18699@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:25:23 GMT


In article <1992Dec13.190512.18699@news2.cis.umn.edu> hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu () writes:
 
>     When I lived in Nassau, Bahamas, there were 1,000 cases of food 
>  poisoning in one month b/c people were eating raw conch that was stored in 
>  wells in the harbor next to a sewage plant that dumped into the harbor.  
>  The conch picked up a virus from the sewage....so there is potential for 
>  danger in mixing human sewage with human food.  The problems are 
>  probably different when one is talking about using sewage as fertilizer, 
>  though, so  I think I've kind of drifted off the subject!

>	--Amy

A Mexican food restaurant here in Las Cruces had a large health
problem a few years ago.  It seems that the lettuce they were
importing from Mexico had been contaminated from human waste.  There
were many cases of food poisoning.

Venecia


--
Politically correct .sig
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change - Porcelain +
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:45:21 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <FaVwVB1w165w@circle.raleigh.nc.us>, lance@Circle.Raleigh.NC.US (Lance A. Brown) writes...
>wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>> Actually, one of the hardest materials to recycle in the class of
>> building materials is portland cement, it undergoes a physical chemical
>> change that is practically irreversable.
> 
>Yikes, the best thing you could do with old portland cement is break it up 
>and use it for rip-rap on a shoreline or as "gravel" in new cement.
> 
	And yet there is a gravel quarrey in the hills near my home. It amazes 
me that we continue to dig up and grind rock to make gravel when there are all 
sorts of materials that we just dump that could be used for this end purpose. 
Cement and porcelain could be used as base in asphalt, maybe as a building 
material in a new form of "aggregated concrete" on overpass abutments and other 
such. 

					- Ashley
From: kre@po.CWRU.edu (Keith RW Elflein)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: druid tree talking
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:16:57 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: International Horn Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: b61693.student.cwru.edu

In article <1992Dec13.230535.25134@wam.umd.edu>, bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar)
wrote:

> Well, my primary intrest is in celtic shamanisim.. but perhaps this will
> help.....
> 	Many books on shamanisim mention a technique of 'blending in' with your
> surroundings, so much so that animals do not notice that you, a human, azre there
> there. Perhaps this is simalailiar tio to this bit you mentionedc
> of changing your aura.
> 	I tried this one time in the woods near my house.. standing on a great 
> big drainage pipe that ran over the top of a little creek in a clearing.
> I just stood there as quiteet and still as could be and imagined my sle
> self to be a tree. Tried to keep my mind clear of all other thoughts, and just
> watchedc.
> It worked very well. A bat was cruising down the stream and 'buzzed' me, passing
> about an inch or two over my head.
> 	Perhaps you could try this, and mentaly try to merge with the tree you
> are attempting to contact. Best try it in the spring thoghugh. 
> Winter makes trees a bit on the comatose side of life... at leatst in my 
> exoperience.
> 
> Jaguar.
> Please excuse the typos, academic stress has taken its toll....

Can you tell me where to get books on druidism (or celtic shamanisim)? i am
really interested in learning some of the techniques. Thanks.
Keith

"When tears of joy are flowing, Love laughs sweetly at the beloved! To kiss
them from her cheeks is Love's most beautiful, greatest payment."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Norse Belief-Systems...
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:57:53 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> BTW, I've got the dowel to use for TMM's mom's runes, and all I need is
> a bitmap showing them.  Could some kind soul out there (*ahem* radzy?)
> send me a bitmap for this purpose?  Spank you very hard.

I don't have a bitmap you can use -- all I have are X-Window-System
bitmap files, and I haven't found a reasonable way to translate them
to other formats.  If you want the X bitmap files, I'll re-post
them.

I thought I had snail-mailed you a copy of the runes.  Oh well, a
paper copy will be wending it's way southward shortly (but it'll
have to wait til Monday).

Hanky Panky Spanky?

Bear/Lion/Goat Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
It's been too long since anyone called me a cabbage.  Hmmm.
Anyone have suggestions on what to change my sig to, so that
people will start calling me a radical vegetable?  Or even
a "progressive produce"?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Santa Claus
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:12:45 GMT

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

>What do the parents here tell their kids about Santa Claus?  Is that
>just part of the christian culture, or can we pagan-ize him?

>I was all set to tell the baby that Santa doesn't really exist, because
>I didn't think the "It's OK to be completely greedy at this time of year
>because we're not paying for it" is a message that did me any good when
>I was a kid.  But then I started looking at our neighbor's decorations
>and I feel like an awful Scrooge saying "look sweetie, it's a capitalist
>myth!"  And I want Alice to enjoy the same Christmas specials and songs
>that I did as a kid.

>So, anybody have any ideas on how we can sugarcoat him?

I just went through this in a mailing list I'm on, re: songs about Santa.
I look on Santa as the embodiment of "Christmas Spirit" -- the goodwill, 
tolerance, generosity, merriment, etc. that touches even the most unlikely
people at this time of year. Just because he brings toys doesn't mean he
has to symbolize boundless consumerism -- he *makes* those toys especially 
for each child, right? :-> And I don't think greed has to enter into it
necessarily, either; nobody ever told me that Santa was going to bring
everything I ever wanted, just something special for "being good", which, 
while it might be something of a parental plot, isn't such a bad goal if
"good" is defined reasonably. (fairness, kindness, consideration, trust-
worthiness, honesty, etc.) Of course, it can be argued that one shouldn't 
expect a reward for such behavior, but my experience is that it's not easy for
most small children to grasp that virtue is its own reward. Time enough for
that transition later, maybe? Also, parents aren't always around to notice when
kids behave well; maybe it's good for them to believe that somebody sees and 
notices when that happens.

I still leave cookies for Santa, because I consider it a ritual to help feed
that spirit and keep it living in all of us. Maybe one day it will become
strong enough to stick around for more of the year. Of course, I have to eat
them myself sometimes, but I kinda think of that as taking in the spirit and
resolving to "keep Christmas in my heart".

Oops, I'm not a parent -- do my opinions count? ;->

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Start again.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:24:22 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1321@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>
>Dawn sez:
>
>>I don't think that the problem is quite so much what do we do with the
>>below average/non-techie person.  Most of the people that I know who are
>>chronically un/under-employed are perfectly bright and talented.  They
>>just know that it's easier to sponge off of someone else, or they never
>>got over that there weren't any openings for rock star, or they have some
>>emotional problem that keeps them from taking care of themselves.  I
>>think this society churns out a lot of basically disfunctional people and
>>also just doesn't value real work very highly. 
>
>Yes, thereare a greater number of these types of people no than there has been 
>in hte past. They are a burdon on our resourses as a society. So how do we 

I don't believe I agree with this. I think that the real problem is that all
these folks would have been just fine anywhere up 'till about WWII.  As I 
suggested in my post about post-industrial society, these people really don't
fit into the society that we have willy-nilly created. 

How many times have you heard people yearn for some sort of "old days", and
talk about wanting to live on a farm, "close to nature", etc., (most of
them realize, though, that they could not support themselves this way)? 
Capitalism & agribusiness have done to the US just what the first industrial
revolution did to England: thrown the people who are reasonably ok as
farmers, out into the street, with no path before them. As we automate more
and more, all the jobs that do *not* require much tech knowledge will go
away, in the interest of cheaper products & "competition". The real debate
on what we *should* do in a post-industrial society, *other* than shit jobs
and make work, has yet to begin. Any ideas?
 
	mark
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: NOT THE ENVIRONMENT
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:18:35 GMT

Today in micro lecter something rather interesting came up. Yes this
does aply here read on and you'll see.
Dealing with fungi and some of their toxins.
Ergot
grows on grains 
symptoms include
->limiting human fertility
->halucanations
->mental disterbances
-->bad dreams
-->fear of enamies
->impares the emune system
infects food during cold, wet harvists
Historian Marry Mattison in "Poisons of our Past" believes that this
played a major part in the freanch revalution and the witch trials.
both of which ocuered when the wether was right for Erogt to grow.

Elf-Kin