HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Rockets on Radar
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:11:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <547@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
> >> Or you could do what Lonnie Reese did when he came out with his Thunderbolt.
> >> He had the Missouri Highway Patrol clock his bird with radar.
> >
> >Probably a bogus story.  Model rockets HAVE been tracked with radar (at
> >Wallops Island) but it was damn expensive, big-disk, fast-swivel radar, 
> >and damned hard.  They didn't get but less than a quarter of them.  (I 
> >was told this by the guy who did it.)  The problem is, there's damn little 
> >radar-reflective material in a model rocket.
> 
> If you want to track one with radar, wrap the body in aluminum foil or
> some aluminum coated mylar. You could even put the foil on the inside
> since, as Chris points out, the body tube is pretty transparent to RF.

Doesn't work real well.  Believe me, the guy I talked to at Wallops
was a pro.  He tried this.  The problem is, when you're close enough to
the launch area to get a good signature, you're looking up the ass end
of the rocket, where you can't SEE the foil.  When you get back to
where you can get a good lateral shot of the foil, the signature is 
real small (at least model rockets, they didn't do HP in those days).
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets,alt.models,rec.models.rc
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: R/C and C/L Scale World Champs this weekend at Muncie
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:28:26 GMT

In article <BtDEz9.Izs@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Iskandar Taib <NTAIB@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>Hi all
>
>Just thought I'd remind everyone in case anyone reading lives in the 
>vicinity. The venue will be the new AMA National Flying Site at Muncie,
>IN. I'll be heading up there tomorrow morning to see if the Russians 
>will show up with their big C/L Antonov transports with the variable 
>pitch props and in-line Krasnoroutsky glow engines (the cylinder is in 
>the same line as the crankshaft for a beautiful fit in a "turboprop"
>nacelle.


Oops.. went up a little too early. They hadn't started flying yet. The
Internats will be throughout this week.

The Russians didn't come, but the Uzbeks did! They brought a small 
Antonov transport. Some really neat models.

Here's a net.tip... The Czechs have some things to sell  9-)





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Putting an airfoil on glider wings.  Help!
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:54:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.180122.18882@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, bjue@engin.umich.edu (Brian Jeffrey Jue) writes:
>      I'm building a boost glider, and I read in Stine's book that the classic
> curved on top, flat on bottom airfoil is not necessary. 

No, but it's DESIRABLE, especially if you don't want to "glide" like a
Space Shuttle.

>      Someone told me to somehow clamp the balsa on the table, then sweep the
> sanding block from the root of the wing out to the tip, and back.  It hasn't
> worked for me (although I am *not* that handy with tools and such) maybe I
> wasn't being patient enough.  But it didn't work for me.  Then my other problem
> is how to get it on the other side.  It's not so easy to clamp down the side
> of ther wing that's already curved and curve the other one.

You're going through a lot of trouble for a NON-optimal wing.  Just do one
side, with a sanding block or a razor-plane.  Draw a line along the "high
point" with a ball-point pen, and then try not to remove it much.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: Second request for motor dimensions
Organization: U of Michigan - Information & Networking Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:14:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.190300.4904@sequent.com> coryc@sequent.com (Cory
Carpenter) writes:
>I asked about this earlier, but the question was buried among other
>text, so I'll try again:
>
>Can someone please send me the dimensions of HPR motors?  I've since
>heard that diameters are 28mm and 34mm.  True?  

There are basically four 'standard' diameters for HPR motors; 29mm, 38mm, 54mm
and 98mm.  The length of the motors will vary depending on the total impulse
and the thrust curve.  Generally most impulse ranges are available in a couple
of different diameters - for example, H's come in 29 and 38mm.  Again
generally, given the same propellent formulation, when an impulse range is
available in different diameters, the smaller diameter tends to be on the
lower end of the impulse range, have a higher average thrust and a shorter burn
time than the larger diameter motor.

The 'Phoenix' rocket glider motor is an odd ball size (32mm) and is not a HPR. 
The larger diameter makes it easier to make a lower thrust/longer burn motor.

>I also need to know about the lengths.  Do they vary with class?  (i.e.:
>Would a "J" be longer than an "I"?)  If lengths are standardized, what
>are the standards?

Yes, agin there are more or less 'standard' lengths (the nice thing about
computer standards is that there are so many to choose from).  Your best bet is
to order some manufacturers' catalogs (see RMJ's address list posting), the
catalogs will answer most of your dimensional questions and have alot more
useful information about the motors performance.

>>I need to build a motor mount, and I have absolutely no reference
>material.  Suggestions on what to use for motor-mount tubes (or what to
>use for correct-diameter forms if I decide to roll my own from 'glass), 
>are also welcome.

All of the HPR manufacturers sell standard motor mount tubes (again RMJ's
posting).  The 38mm (BT18/BT1.64) and 54mm (BT21/BT2.??) motor tubes are
typically thicker than standard body tube.

>Any assistance would be appreciated!

I suspect, given the nature of your questions, that you are new to HPR.  The
best advise would be to find a local group (Tripoli or NAR) that does HP and
tap their experience.  Remember, the impulse goes up expotentially as you go up
in letters and drag goes up with the cube of the velocity.  Most constructiuon
techniques don't scale at those rates.
From: enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:10:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19822
Reply-To: enders@bolshoi.uucp
Distribution: usa

Paul Campbell writes

> Dave flew it again at LDRS this week - it went just as well - but those G300s
> are hard to come by - Aerotech only made a limited number as a one time
> special ....
> 
     A one time run, eh?  That's unfortunate! :-(  I suppose, though, if one
had the $$$, one could convince Aerotech to make up just about anything as
a special.  If we ever get the reloadable situation settled, maybe we could
convince Aerotech to make a reloadable version! :-)

Todd          enders@bolshoi.uucp
              uunet!bolshoi!enders
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Scale Model Rocketry, Peter Alway (was: New AmSpam Editor?)
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:51:51 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <550@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>I was talking with Peter Alway last night (about contributing my
>Titan data to his new book) and he tells me that Larry Shenosky

Stuff Deleted

Boy, Peter must really get the calls!  I too just got off the telephone
(last night) with Peter.  He gave me a little info on his new edition
of "Scale Model Rocketry".  The new book will be twice the size of the 
last edition.  It will cover everything in the last edition, with more
detail (ie. larger photos, more complete info).  Some new material will
also be added. Peter said the new edition, as it is now, covers the rockets
of 10 countries (his last book covered the US program).  His projected
completion date is the 1993 NARAM.  PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS THE PROJECTED
DATE.  Peter said he CANNOT be held to this date.  Completion depends upon
his employment status.  At the moment he is out of work so he spends his
time on the book.  If he gets a job the book may take another year or two.

Good luck Peter!  May you finish the book and get a job.

Bob
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert B. Sisk  PhD			Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
NAR #53448				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
TRIPOLI #1583                           CIS:      71501.1651@CompuServe.COM
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: Micro Video
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:04:00 GMT

In article <5748@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes...

>Nooooo, not QUITE.  You forgot to add in the cost of the transmitter,
>which boosts the price even further.  And that camera is the B&W one --
>the color one is even more expensive.  An entire setup with the color
>camera comes out to something like $900.
> 
>We did a semi-review of these modules in our most recent newsletter,
>complete with video frames.
>-- 
> 
>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Oops! I thought the $190 covered the camera AND the transmitter. I still
think the light weight and modular design would make it more attractive
than flying a camcorder, if your into video...

Tim Harincar			"Always listen to experts.			
Central Minnesota 		They'll tell you what can't
Association of Rocketry		be done and why. Then do it."
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu			-Lazarus Long
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: What do I need to get something into orbit?
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:16:48 GMT

>In article <1992Aug11.170240.28620@SSD.intel.com> cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich
>Cower) writes:

>>Does anyone have any information on getting a model rocket into
>>orbit? No payload, just the rocket would be enough. I'm looking
>>for specifics on what to buy, and how to put it together.

And if you did, how would you know you succeeded? 8-)

No payload, remember?




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: j.cook@primerd.prime.com (C. James Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Astrocam Breakthrough
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:09:59 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer R&D

Hi Jack-

There were four of us playing with Astrocams at NARAM.

You had the stock model.  Tom Beach had the dual rear-facing pair.
Fred Williams had one on an Apogee egglofter body.  

I had the stock model prepared for D/E's.  I got my film back, but it doesn't
appear that I was lucky.  I only received negatives as the developer judged
the roll blank, but I'll ask for prints from 3 frames.  The first frame on
a D looks like a cloud shot.  The second shot on a D and the third shot on
an E look underexposed.  Understandable since I was using 200 and told the
developer to push it to 400 - they propbably ignored this.

(wonder how Tom & Fred did).

Rats,
Jim
<J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: pbh@jake.cc.wayne.edu (Patrick Haggood)
Subject: Re: RE: Sounding Rockets (was Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:23:22 GMT

In article <5676@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <19765@plains.NoDak.edu>, enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders) writes:
>> C. D. Tavares writes
>> ) HEE HEE HEE!  One of the classic NASA prang films is of a Nike-Arcas
>> ) flipflopping its way in and out of the ocean at Wallops, then across the
>> ) launch complex and into a parking lot!  The Nike catoes as the film
>> ) begins, and the Arcas plops on a beach, only to be ignited by a timer
>> ) about 15 seconds later.  With zero airspeed, the Arcas is fantastically
>> ) unstable, and proves it.  The video is called "Boosted Arcas <some number>"
>> ) and is in slo-mo.  NASA perpetually denies it exists, but I have a copy.
>> 
>>      On this note, where can one get film/video of other sounding rocket
>> launches?  I suspect NASA has quite a pile, *if you know what to ask for*,
>> but the salient question is "how do you find out what to ask for?".  Thanks!
>
>You can write to your local NASA office and ask them for their audio
>visual catalog.  You will get a lot of interesting titles, but mission
>launch recordings won't be on it.  (Mostly presentation stuff with 
>soundtracks, etc.)
>
>The Boosted Arcas film was liberated from the "burn before viewing" vaults
>by Herb Honecker before he died.  Bob Kaplow transferred the film to video
>and took orders for copies. 
>
>To fill up the tape, he added lots of other interesting and historical
>material, such as the Steel City Prang Film, a bunch of wacky aviation-
>oriented Movietone newsreels, the 1960's(?) NAR promotional film narrated
>by G. Harry Stine, and hours of other neat stuff. 
>
>For those of you who have asked me for copies, mine is a second-generation 
>dupe of his, plus I don't have a second VCR.  However, Bob will probably be 
>willing to make some copies for a small fee.  His number is 708-428-1181.
>-- 
>
>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

I just got off the phone with Bob and he says its most difficult for him
to get you copies.  His says his isn't first generation anyway, and
besides it's in Beta, compound this with his not having much free time
nor an easy way of getting this to VHS thereby useful to the 99.99997
percent of the U.S. VCR owners, he doesn't feel he can offer much help
to distributing this tape.

With that said, does any one else know where this tape can be procured?
-- 
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net," | DoD #1966	
	Matthew 13:47                              | 81 Honda CB400T Hawk
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder)
Subject: Sanding Sealer vs Balsa Filler
Keywords: What's the difference?
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:23:53 GMT

I've always used Pactra Sanding Sealer for finishing the balsa parts of
my rockets.  While buying a new bottle at the hobby store today, I
noticed that Pactra also sells something called Balsa Filler.  It appears
much whiter and thinner than their sanding sealer.  What's the main
difference between the two?  Do they both serve the same purpose?  I've
looked at the FAQ but haven't seen any mention of one versus the other as
far as these specific products are concerned.  Thanks.


--
  Greg Elder               | "Artificial intelligence?!!!  I'd rather
  Dept of Computer Science | have real intelligence." 
  Arizona State University |                      -- Ann Elder
  elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu |  
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: krandy@hubcap.clemson.edu (randy kaufman)
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Keywords: ignition GSE launcher relay continuity
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:18:44 GMT

cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.184050.27806@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>> Relays are okay, but transistors are better. Why not go solid state?

>Well, the Tripoli pads at the National Sport Launch went through about
>six 10A fuses!  Maybe there are transistors that can deliver that kind
>of power, but they sound like something that might carry a price tag I 
>can't hack...

 
These days, 15A bipolars run less than a dollar .... >-- 

>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Randy Kaufman  WD4LUJ
From: lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:32:24 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Just a comment here: AMSPAM policy makes it an unattractive proposition
to contribute. You send in an article and it immediately becomes their
property. They don't tell you whether it was rejected or not, and even
if it is accepted, you see nothing for months. In any case, you lose all
the rights. Why not contibute to, say, PROBE instead?

-Larry
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: BT-50/55 tubes
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:48:08 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug12.191638.6626@primerd.prime.com>, J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM (Jim Cook) writes:
> You might also try a guy in California name "Fred Schecter".  I think he is a
> member of the NAR section BAYNAR, but I could be wrong.  He was selling tubes
> last week in Las Vegas at NARAM-34 for cheap, about 36 inches long.  Claimed
> to get them the same place as Estes.  I don't have his address, unfortunately,
> but perhaps someone else can post it.

It's Fred Shecter, 20505 E Clear Spring Court, Walnut CA 91789.  Fred is
from the LA Rocket Society (BAYNAR is in SF).  Nice tubes.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Rocket to the moon?
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:55:30 GMT



Hi,

I read a while this group when this was greated a long ago.
There was a discussion on sending a rocket to the moon.
What happened? (I guess it never happened.)

Juhana Kouhia
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Rockets on Radar
Summary: Not too hard
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:46:44 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <5615@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.213702.28349@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>
>> Or you could do what Lonnie Reese did when he came out with his Thunderbolt.
>> He had the Missouri Highway Patrol clock his bird with radar.
>
>Probably a bogus story.  Model rockets HAVE been tracked with radar (at
>Wallops Island) but it was damn expensive, big-disk, fast-swivel radar, 
>and damned hard.  They didn't get but less than a quarter of them.  (I 
>was told this by the guy who did it.)  The problem is, there's damn little 
>radar-reflective material in a model rocket.

If you want to track one with radar, wrap the body in aluminum foil or
some aluminum coated mylar. You could even put the foil on the inside
since, as Chris points out, the body tube is pretty transparent to RF.

If you *really* want to be seen on radar, find out what frequency the
unit is and glue some strips of chaff (essentially just thin strips 
of aluminum foil or aluminum coated fiberglass that are cut to the 
1/4 wave size of the radar frequency) to the outside. It'll ring like
a bell! (electromagnetically speaking :-)

- Jack (I used to make chaff dispensers for a living)


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
From: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Very low thrust motors?
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:37:10 GMT
Reply-To: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita KS

In article <1992Aug10.112259.19385@med.umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu writes:
>I am under the impression that Aerotech is using the 'Jetex exemption' in
>claiming that their 32mm Phoenix motor is 'legal'.  As fas as I know, the Jetex
>is the only reloadable/reusable rocket motor that has been accepted by a
>government agency as 'safe'.
>

Not exactly...Aerotech has applied for (and received) a stay of enforcement
from the relevant government agencies regarding their entire line of 
reloadable product. They are technically still illegal, but AT is allowed to
market them pending approval of a permanent regulation change, which has 
been applied for. 

>I would think that a C3 or C4 would be the minimum practical limit.  I've seen
>the Aerotech C4 reloadable and been impressed (Aerotech should introduce this
>propellant grain in a double length version for a return of the D8).

Apogee announced at NARAM-34 that they will shortly be introducing a D6
single-use composite (to be manufactured by Aerotech and exclusively sold by
Apogee). Cost will be roughly in line with the existing Apogee composites.
In other words, they ain't going to be cheap.

I too would like to see some low-thrust motors made available, particularly
for competition. A B1.5 or B2, and an A1 or A2, would be great motors for
Altitude and lightweight (PD/SD) duration models. The eastern Europeans 
have used motors like these in international competition for some time now.
I have little doubt that they're part of the reason we tend to get our 
tails waxed at the world championships. 

-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
From: mch0@harvey.gte.com (Michael Hatz)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: FTP Site???
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:52:50 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories

Is there an ftp site available yet for model rockets?

Mike
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: More DOT Info (2)
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:45:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Aug18.054543.24065
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) writes:
: It's ironic. Estes and the NAR and Tripoli have kept rocketry in the
: good graces of the FEDS by constantly reassuring them that the hobby is
: *S*A*F*E*. Now Estes shows them an inflamatory video, aimed at reloads,
: but inflamatory material isn't subtle. If the FEDS get scared they get
: scared generally, not just about reloads.r 
: 
: This could turn out to have been a REAL BAD mistake, guys.

Yep. But then, I have been questioning the sanity of the folks running
Estes for some time now.

Maybe it is time to start writing letters to our congressmen. 

Bill