From: hamilton@hydra.cs.gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Rant! Rave! (was: Fermat( was: Noah's Ark))
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:36:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: rphroy.88523
Reply-To: hamilton@gmr.com (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50)
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: GM Research Labs, Warren, MI

In article <1992Aug13.122453.29534@news.nd.edu> scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu (Scharle) writes:
>   ...
>    Perhaps it should be pointed out that there is an ancient heresy in 
>Christianity (Gnosticism) which says, among other things, that the 
>maker of the world is not God.
>
I believe they also claimed that there was some special knowledge
that was given only to them which enabled them to know God and
receive salvation. Furthermore, I believe they believed that God is 
not necessarily good, (and therefore might well resort to
deceptions like apparent age). Is this the characteristic of gnosticism
you see in creationism, Tom? 

>    It seems to some of us that creationism borders on that heresy.  We 
>think about that again when a creationist hints that the world which 
>science studies -- with radioactivity, ice cores, speed of light -- 
>has been built with the intention of deceiving us.  Obviously, such a 
>deception is not the work of God.  
>
>    Who or what
>        made the laws of physics
>        put the fossils in the earth
>        put all of those layers in the ice caps
>        made the stars and galaxies
>        put, in every living thing, the evidence for the genetic 
>               relationships between all of us, 
>knowing that we have the kind of intelligence that would lead us to 
>interpret those things as saying that the world and life is ancient, 
>and that life is all related?

And, to borrow an idea from Augustine, if He gave us misleading information
in nature, how could we trust what He says about salvation?
>
>    Here are some possibilities:
>    God (theistic evolution)
>    A deceiving demiurge (gnostic creationism)
>
To me, it's too easy to turn theistic evolution into deism.  So I personally 
wouldn't say I susbscribe to theistic evolution without adding rather
emphatically that God always has and always will exercise His sovereignty
over the operation of the universe. Evolution as a mechanism is well supported
by the data available to us. But I don't see it as a complete, sufficient
explanation for all of life. Obviously I don't claim that that position
is a scientific one. It's a Christian one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Hamilton                  |
GM Res/Env staff           ----+----
Computer Science Dept.         |      Now faith is the assurance of things
Warren, MI 48090-9055          |      hoped for, the conviction of things
(313) 986 1474                 |      not seen. Heb 11:1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever
- The Westminster Shorter Catechism
>-- 
>Tom Scharle                |cm65n6@irishmvs(Bitnet)
>Room G003 Computing Center |scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu(Internet)
>University of Notre Dame  Notre Dame, IN 46556-0539 USA