From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: letting run loose
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:52:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In Article 9036 in rec.equestrian kloomis@cco.caltech.edu (Kate E. Loomis)
writes:

>Jean Andrews <ja23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>>Since my last post I have a question and would really like to see which
>>way you all think I should go.  Should I let our Pai (mare) run loose
>>with the other mares every other day or not!?!

>Your horse will not get beat up more if she is passive. In fact, if 
>she is the wimpiest horse in the group and doesn't mind, she will get
>beat up _less_ than if she jockeys for a higher position in the herd.
>The horse most likely to get beat up is the horse who comes in thinking
>it ought to be the _top_ horse!
>Other than that, it all depends on how the picking order "shakes out", as
>someone else mentioned. I'm not sure how one would aid this. Someone 
>said, if you have an idea where a horse will end up in the picking order, 
>it helps. How do you factor that into which pairs of horses to put 
>together first? Do you start with the horse that you think the new horse
>will be closest to? 

>Kate

	I disagree, I have my two girls out at pasture, and the situation
seems to be as individual as with people.  My mare is not an aggressive 
horse, she is number 4 out 6 mares in her pasture, yet she is constantly
coming up missing fur on her rump and hocks.  The two highest in the
pecking order seem to be doing the most to remove her fur.  She has yet
to remove any fur from the two mares who are below her.  What's really
fascinating is that when she first was turned in with them the mare that
went after her the most 2 days later decided that Cachet was her best
buddy and would whinny after her when I took her out of the pasture.
Now it may be that Cachet just doesn't buffalo as quickly as the
two dominant mares want, but in any case my mare has shoes on but has
yet to do more than threaten another mare even when chomped on.
	My filly on the other hand is in a pasture with a group of 2 year
old fillies.  For the first two or three weeks that she was in there
she tried to be top filly, she threatened the others into backing down
whenever they came near her, all without laying a hoof or tooth on
any of them.  Later her naturally laid back nature came out and she
has since slipped down to 4th or 5th position out of 5, and again she has
yet to get beat up by any of the others.  
	What this boils down to is that aggression is an individual thing
some horses are very pushy and some are wimps, some consider it sufficient
that the other horse move off when they demand it, others need to show
the interloper who's boss by sending them off with a good kick.  A pasture
full of easy-going horses generally won't have much hide lost between them,
but a pasture full of aggressive horses could wind up with some serious
injuries.  And you also can't tell whether two horses just might have a
serious personality conflict ahead of time.  I saw one very wimpy gelding
that my mare could boss around turn into a raging maniac when another
gelding (who had previously been turned in with my girls and proved to
be a bit more dominant than them) was turned out with him.  The wimpy
gelding totally buffaloed the seamingly more aggressive one, to the
point where the other was not even able to eat at any of the widely
spaced feeders along the pasture fence.  We eventually put the now
aggressive gelding in with a bunch of dominant mares and moved a skinny
less aggressive mare in with my girls and the other gelding.  The 
aggressive gelding went back to being mister mild-mannered, the buffaloed
gelding went back to being top of the feed bin, and the skinny mare
decided that she was in wimp heaven and proceeded to become dominant
mare and gained some weight.
	The procedure outlined by some others of turning the horse
into an adjoining area to get to know the other horses is a good
one, though not always practical.  If it is not possible then wait
til a day when you can spend several hours watching and take the
horse out again if things get too rough.  The horses running around
and chasing back and forth is not generally a problem accept for
a horse that has a lameness or who may become lame.  However if
there is a serious confrontation make sure you are not in the
middle of it as the horses can take it better than you can.  I would
definitely not turn a less aggressive horse out with a known aggressive
horse or kicker who has shoes.

					Tracy and everybody
 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian