HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c1a192@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Oliver Erik Seiler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Piracy
Date: 16 Nov 1992 14:57:58 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: bowen.rick.cs.ubc.ca

rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes:
> You want a better equasion?!
> 
> Software Piracy = Shoplifting

Actually this isn't true. Software piracy creates two copies of a a program
where only one existed before. Shoplifting doesn't create anything.

Software piracy also doesn't affect shopowners in the same way as shoplifting
because the software is still on their shelves...

- Oliver

-- 
\  Oliver Seiler  /\  \    /  /      _                              |||||
 \               /  \  \  /  /      /o\__   <--- My dream car...    (o o)
  \             /    \  \/  /_______-O--O'_____                      \^
   \_Insomniak_/      \_c1a192@rick.cs.ubc.ca_/                     _| |_
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:17128 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29492
From: aj639@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Cox)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMOS
Date: 19 Nov 1992 12:23:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aj639@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Cox)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) says:

>Your statement implies you have AMOS programs that don't misbehave?
>Care to provide pointers to one?
Well, since I haven't seen any thing that defines your 'misbehave', please
inform me what it is and I will point you to some.  I have written 2 programs
that are in the PD.  One is called AMOSMEDPlayer and it, obviously, plays
4-voice MED modules.  The other is AAFP and it predicts winners of
football games (American).  So, I have no need to talk to other windows or
Amiga programs from either of these.

I do want to say that I do not want to get into any name calling argument.  I
still think it all boils down to what your opinion is.  Because you use
ISpell and Keywhatever and some WP that talk to each other, I can see a need
for intercomm between programs.  However, I don't so I don't worry about it.

Mike
-- 
Okay, look for AmoNER #5 on: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (128.174.5.59) in /amiga/amoner
nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) in /pub/amiga/programming/amos
Je suis venu ici pour macher du chewing-gum et pour botter des fesses.
Et maintenant, je n'ai plus de chewing-gum . . .
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:16886 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29178
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:40:27 GMT
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52

In <Bxrqq2.C77@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer) wrote:
> Wow, this thread is in a lot of newsgroups...
> 
> All right, let me try to clean up a few impressions about AMOS (some right,
> some wrong).  First of all, by default AMOS is not "system-compliant."  Yes,
> when you run an AMOS program, it will take over most system calls because
> AMOS uses its own intuition routines.  I agree that this is a Very Bad Thing.
> However, in some respects it is necessary to make possible a lot of things 
> that AMOS can do so easily.  Now, what I would like to see is a version of
> AMOS that WILL let you do everything on the workbench if you want, instead
> of forcing you to use your own private screen.

Like I said - the problem is the package, not the language. It'd be
nice if they fixed it.

> The problem is that since AMOS is not "system-compliant" by nature, and that
> making it so would involve so much extra effort by the programmer, most AMOS
> programs you will ever see will not be system-compliant.

This is a good reason NOT to start with AMOS, especially since there
are alternatives that are easier to use, and are system-compliant; at
least for most things.

> Besides, AMOS
> is fully multitasking (even if it does do it a little differently) which
> is more than I can say for a lot of programs.

"Doing it a little differently" means "it looks like it's not
multitasking, and it screws up other programs, and it confuses
people." That's more than I can say about most programs.

> And I have never even HEARD of an entire AMOS screen being
> blanked by some blanker.

You've got the problem backwards. AMOS programs causes commodities
blankers to not blank the screen until they exit. This is bad, for two
reasons. One, it keeps a standard blanker from working on AMOS
screens; two, it causes blanking at an inappropriate time.

> But of course, the cause is with AMOS taking over mouse
> calls so when you move the mouse on an AMOS screen, it doesn't count on
> anything on the WB side.

It also appears to steal keyboard input, and disable certain intuition
calls (or at least cause them not to happen). This means that hotkey
commodites in general don't work. Of course, given the general
behavior of AMOS, it could be some other obscure thing it's doing
wrong. While these things aren't a problem per se, such behavior is a
bug in anything but a game (and in most of those).

	<mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Vhat?  No flickerfixer in A4k?  Vhat ees thees?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:50:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.011115.25132@news.uit.no> terjem@stud.cs.uit.no (Terje Normann Marthinussen) writes:
>In article <BxvsE6.Iz@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov17.140137.17057@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>>Marc, if you don't believe me, please feel free to come on down and see it in
>>>action. 
>>
>>   Are you willing to give me transportation and pay for gas?  I would kind
>>of like to see an A4000 at least once.  But there are no Amiga dealers 
>>within 150 miles of Ames that have the A4000.  Commodore's "Campus Amiga
>>dealer" for the ISU campus is both 40 miles off-campus and no longer stocks
>>Commodore products.  The closest ones are 150 miles east and 150 miles
>>west, and I refuse to go out of my way to at enormous costs to me in time
>>and money just to see a piece of plastic, silicon, and metal.
>>
>>>Don't make the mistake of trying to tell me what the A4000 and A3000 can
>>>or cannot do based on what you have heard. 
>>
>>   My perceptions of the A3000 come from extensive personal experience. 
>>It is just the A4000 that I have not used, and have no real desire to
>>use.  The A4000 is the first Amiga that I have no desire whatsoever to
>>own.  If somebody gave me one, I'd sell it for the down-payment on a car.
>>
>
>Why don't you give it to me instead?????

   Because I would need the money.

>Terje Marthinussen
>terjem@stud.cs.uit.no

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: joeles@cup.portal.com (Joel Edward Swan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Now.. you get what you want! (maybe) :)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:48:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

shulick@osage.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:

>Ok, I'm dying to write another program for the Amiga, so throw all your
>suggestions this way.  NOT intense things like comm programs, compilers,
>print spoolers (hi Scott :), etc.  Anything else... try me, and I'll let
>you know if I can handle it.  Maybe some modifications to IntelliKey are
>due, so I can release v2.0.. I haven't had a lot of input on suggestions
>and changes for IntelliKey.  So e-mail away, and let me know what you'd
>like to see, and I'll see what I can do.

There is currently no professional level Teleprompter available other than
one possibility in Australia.  Given all of the Amiga's in the field of
video, I don't understand why there aren't a dozen or so packages out there.
I could swear that they would sell like hotcakes.

-Joel
-------
   ========================================================================
  / Joel E. Swan....Pres./...Media Specialties, Ltd., Oak Forest, IL.USA  /
 / & Senior Producer..../...Moody Broadcasting Network, Chicago, IL. USA /
/ Portal ID: joeles..../...joeles@cup.portal.com                        /
========================================================================
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:16876 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29165
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: Programming
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 15 Nov 92 12:26:27 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <1992Nov15.181050.24020@ugle.unit.no>, eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) wrote:
> In article <mwm.2n8f@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) writes:
>  > These sound like things you want to write games, or to do
>  > presentations. They also aren't unique to AMOS; any serious multimedia
>  > or presentation tool has those capabilities.  I'd be surprised if most
>  > of those aren't better for building presentations than AMOS. Guess
>  > what that leaves AMOS most suitable for?
> 
> Fine.  *YOU'D* be surprised.  On the other hand, so would a sheep.

You mean the sheep who think AMOS behaves acceptably?

>  > > to compare AMOS to C when it comes to writing utilities (but it still can
>  > > be done in  AMOS),
>  > 
>  > Utilities can? System-friendly, AUISG-compliant utilities? The
>  > evidence indicates otherwise.
> 
> WHAT evidence?  You're sure as hell not supplying any!

How many times must it be said: EVERY AMOS PROGRAM I'VE EVER USED.

>  > Giggle. Oh well - I guess that's to be expected if you think that
>  > typical AMOS behavior is acceptable.
> 
> Oh dear.  Not only do we not like AMOS, we also don't approve of C.  So, your idea
> of a system-friendly language is what?  Machine code (in binary, of course)?

Answered elsewhere.

>  > I don't dispute any of that. However, it's not the only language with
>  > those features; and I *know* the alternatives let you build programs
>  > that don't have the AMOS bugs. I'm waiting for some one to tell me
> 
> Oh, right, *THOSE* AMOS bugs.  The ones you frequenty invoke, but never name.

Named, repeatedly, elsewhere. But to repeat: every AMOS program I've
ever seen interferes with the operation of other programs; every AMOS
program I've ever seen disables intuition window/screen control; every
AMOS program I've ever seen fucks the copper list before it starts.

>  > None, but you were disputing the point that it wasn't system
>  > compliant. If it can't do those things, then it's not system
>  > compliant. Of course, a beginning programmer should be exposed to
>  > proper programming *results* as well as technics. If AMOS can't do
>  > what I describe, then it can't do the former.
> 
> How many times?  It *IS* system compliant!

Prove it. Post an AMOS binary that doesn't have the bugs listed above.

	<mike
From: langston@memstvx1.memst.edu (Mark C. Langston)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: A4000 Contest winners?
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:29:56 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University


     Maybe it's just me...
Weren't the winners of the 'win an A4000' 25 words or less contest supposed
to be announced today?  Correct me if I'm wrong...

(Hey!  I posted before 4 in the morning...I better log off before it 
 happens again!)



-- 
+--------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here------8<------Cut Here---------+
  Mark C. Langston   |  "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny."                 
  Psychology Dept.   |  "Always listen to experts.  They'll tell you what can't
  Memphis State U.   |     be done, and why.  Then do it."                      
      "Pftph!"       |           -From the notebooks of Lazarus Long         
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: I found a pirate - what shall I do?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:40:47 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.
Keywords: piracy

In article <Bx9n0F.8p2@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.175120.9297@ifi.unizh.ch> matija@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (Matija Milostnik) writes:
>>No. Piracy is the result of ignorance and stupidity.
>
>In your opinion, maybe.
>
>>IF you cant afford programms, then where did you find the money for the 
>>computer?
>
>Maybe the computer was purcashed some time ago, & Mr.X ran out of cash
>so he pirates.  Makes perfect sense.  I suppose you'd have to be a
>pirate at least once to understand.
>
>>>And no, don't try to turn me in because I don't
>>>pirate anymore & I don't use the old stuff.
>>
>>Glad you are over this now.
>
>Yeah, me too.  I LOVE having documentation. :)
>
>-- 
>Sam Hulick          | "You can't discover new oceans unless you have the
>shulick@indiana.edu | courage to lose sight of the shore."  --Anon.
>(NeXTmail welcome)  |

I don't believe you sam.  I bet you still pirate.

Hey let's turn him in anyway and find out!  :-)
From: rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Piracy
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:35:41 EST
Reply-To: rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy)
Organization: Lakes Public Access

rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes:

> OK.  This one cant be beat.
> 
> Software Piracy = a violation of copyright laws
> 
> Commercial software is copyrighted.  Somone cannot distibute a copy of
> the game or even a SIMILAR game without the company's concent (recall
> when Spectrum Holobyte told PD distributers that the Tetris clones were
> illegal?  They have been removed from the old disks of the FF collection
> in all the latest releases of the collection (even from FTP sites like
> ux1).
> 
> Copyright laws are there to prevent COPYING which removes potential
> profits from the producer. 
> 
> 	Thanks
> 	Robert Fentiman
> 
> UseNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu
> At: University of Minnesota, Duluth

Bravo.  Rational discourse.  I agree with this.  Unfortunately, the 
industry at large seems to think that they are granted even more rights 
than those given to copyright holders, and seem to want to get patent 
coverage as well.  (Like the cases where companies have claimed absolute 
right to the most efficient code, etc., even though it could have been 
come up with by others independantly...)  The Tetris crap is a prime 
example of 'copyright' going too far.
From: news@newcastle.ac.uk (NEWS system)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: A1200 - No H.D drive, no 68030?
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:13:02 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.

In article <BxszLL.946@newcastle.ac.uk>, unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (I.A. Inman) writes:
From: n0an7@turing.newcastle.ac.uk (H.S. Doyle)
>
>The A1200 is a very nice machine - it might just yet stop me going PC.
>
>Three complaints though.
>
>1) 68020 processor - the Atari Falcon has a 68030.
>
>2) An 880K floppy drive? Why not HD? It won't cost that much!
>
>3) No sound chip upgrade? It's sad to say the Atari now craps on us in that
>   department.
>
>				----------
>
>Commodore have released the A1200 at the 400 pound price mark (U.K.).   They
>should release a version with a hard drive (and preferably, a HD disk drive) for
>about 150 - 200 pounds more.
>
>A new machine (Say A1800) could be released at the 600 pounds mark, this having
>a 68030 processor and more memory, and a new sound chip.   This would give the
>Falcon some decent competition.
>
>It is safe to say the A600 is the new C64 (strange when you can still buy a C64),
>with the A1200 being the early ninties A500.   We may beat off the PC`s yet!

Right, first:
1) Although the Falcon has a '030, because of its poor custom chip support it is
only faster at pure number crunching, and even at that it is not as faster as you
may think. With any other application (i.e. most of the applications that the
A1200 and Falcon have been designed for) the A1200 beats the shit out of the Falcon, due to the custom chips doing a lot of the work.

2) Yes, it's only got an 880K drive, but C= intend to release an external HD drive soon after Christmas, if not before, and you can bet there'll be internal HD drive machines out soon.

3) True enough, it's still got the same old sound chip, but you can't expect C= to think up a new graphics chipset and sound chipset too. Be patient, a new sound
chipset is bound to be out soon. Also, the Atari Falcon may have 16-bit sampling,
but the sound DMA is still only 8-bit which effectively means 8-bit samples. I've got more info on how the Falcon's sound isn't all Atari says it is, and I might post it up if I can find it.

Commodore are going to release a hard drive version of the A1200 soon after Christmas, if several reliable articles I have read are true. And it'll cost about 100-150 pounds more.

I doubt we'll see a 600-pound A1800 for a good while, I think the A1200 is an excellent low-end market filler. C='s next machine will be an AGA A3000 replacement I reckon, priced, at a guess, at just over a grand; A2400 maybe?

We'll definitely beat off the PCs, for the time being at least! The AGA chipset shits all over S-VGA, to say the least. Let's see IBM come up with a similar-cost rival to AGA in the near future!

 ******************************************************************************
      _L_________________++       "Neil; are you going to make the tea, or
     [_____   [__] ]]]   ]         am I going  to smash your face in?"
      ^----------+-+,   ]          Vyvyan - The Young Ones.
                 L_L| |||
                    | |||      "If only you could see what I've seen with   
                    | |||       your eyes." - Roy Baty, Bladerunner.
                     L___|        EMail: H.S.Doyle@uk.ac.newcastle     
 ******************************************************************************
From: simons@peti.GUN.de (Peter Simons)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:00:36 CET
Organization: * Private Amiga Site Bonn - Member of Individual Network e.V. *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Distribution: world
Subject: a kind of StackWatch-tool needed
X-Newsreader: Ann 0.10


                                  Hi folks !

Today  I  found  a  tool  called  "StackWatch",  what   monitors   the
stack-usage of any program/task/process. I wanted  to  use  StackWatch
with some self-written programs, but it fails. (I allocate a new stack
via StackSwap()!!)

Does anyone know another (working ;->) tool of that kind?

        bye, Peter

--
              ____ ____      ____
             /___ /__  /\  /  /    INTERNET: simons@peti.GUN.de
            ____//___ /  \/  /      FIDONET: 2:242/7.25
           to you by Peter Simons     VOICE: 0228 / 746061
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jmauric@eng.clemson.edu (John Maurice)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Reply-To: jmauric@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:43:52 GMT

In article XcL9TB2w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us, rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy) writes:
>marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans) writes:
>
>> OK, let's say you've built a wooden table and a few chairs,
>> which you have in your garden. The next night, someone comes
>> and steal the outdoor furniture. That's not a moral thing to do,
>> right? It's about the same thing when stealing software, the
>> programmer has put blood, sweat and tears into his work, and
>> perhaps he wants to have something back for that? So, it IS
>> immoral to steal his software.
>>   (It is hard to make an example, as other things than software
>> usually can't be copied the way software can.)
>

piracy isnt quite what you said. lets say you did build a wooden table
and a few chairs. a pirate comes along and makes a copy of the table
and chairs for himself. the pirate never takes your table and chairs.
and why might he do that? well perhaps its because you charged
him 1 million dollars for a chair and it only cost you 2 hours to
make it. oh.. and by the way.. im a programmer so dont tell me its
blood, sweat and tears. thats BS.

---

                                            --John

============================================================================
Reply to JMAURIC@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU       |    300 Rippleview Dr.
Phone: 803-653-3893                    |    Clemson, SC 29631
============================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: tpang@fraser.sfu.ca (Tsui Ting Debbie Pang)
Subject: Re: Vhat? No flickerfixer in A4k? Vhat ees thees?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:23:42 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>True, the A4000 has no flicker-fixer hack, but it does have something much
>better called the AGA chipset and the 3.0 system software.  The reason that
>they did not put one in the A4000 is that it is not only an expensive part,
>it is also a hack which has some problems.

I don't see any big problem on my A3000. My monitor overscans correctly.

>I have been using an A4000 since Friday with the exact same SVGA monitor
>that I was using with my A3000.  The only software that has problems are
>EuroHacks and games that do not obey the rules.  The problem goes away
>completely if I use a multiscan that syncs down to 15kHz.
>The 3.0 software will automatically "promote" older modes to use the dblNTSC
>and dblPAL modes which do not flicker.  And contrary to what others may have
>said, it is very easy to get software that breaks the rules to work.  With 
>the exception of some games and EuroDemos, all software that worked on the
>A3000 works on the A4000.  Of course, I'm the type of person who refuses to
>keep trash on my hard drive, so that may be a factor.
>The A4000's method of flicker-fixing in software and hardware has several
>advantages over the A3000 approach.  First, the annoying 1/2 line flicker
>is gone, as is the jitter when a pointer is moved quickly.  Also, every
>screen is centered properly on the display and looks better than the A3000
>does when using the same monitor.

So when you are using a HiResInterlace mode, what is the output hor. frequency?
Does it interlace? If it is not de-interlaced, then I'd imagine flicker exists.
What method the A4000 treats the interlace mode in 640x400 for example? This
is the mode I use most, with overscan.

>A word to the wise: Don't listen to what MB and others might say.  They have
>shown time and again that they are not only annoying, they are also just plain
>ignorant of the facts.
> 
I know the AGA outputs the 640x400 in 31kHz, non-interlaced, thus the mode
promotion. May be you just didn't mention that mode. And I have thought
all along it was done with flicker fixing circuit!

>>Sam Hulick          | "You can't discover new oceans unless you have the
>>shulick@indiana.edu | courage to lose sight of the shore."  --Anon.
>>(NeXTmail welcome)  |

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu


David Tse






Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.misc:17112 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29460
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: AMOS
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:07:33 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

In <1edbmhINNndu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aj639@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Cox) wrote:
> 
> In a previous article, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) says:
> 
> >And yes, it's as badly behaved as all AMOS programs. Fortunately, it's
> Unless you have used ALL AMOS programs in the world, I don't think this is a
> valid statement.  

You're right: I should have said "AMOS programs I have seen." That my
requests for AMOS programs that don't misbehave goes unanswered causes
me to assume that all it applies to all of them.

Your statement implies you have AMOS programs that don't misbehave?
Care to provide pointers to one?

	Thanx,
	<mike