HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: P.P VENTILATION
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:33:30 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 8050@lib.tmc.edu, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.164019.24999@news.ysu.edu> af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks) writes:
>>Nuts to the EPA! Live burn training works best!  
>
>Say what? Are the enviro-weenies trying to do away with training firefighters
>by having them (gasp) fight fires?
>-- 
>Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
>  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button


Not trying - succeeding.  In CA, it is virtually impossible to train
with live fires.  The main force behind the ban seems to be the 
regional air quality boards.  Other groups have had their say too.
Enviro-weenies (unfortunately) abound here in the land of fruits and
nuts (and I'm not talking about the stuff that grows on trees).

---
Suzanne Roat				 
Chevron Research and Technology Company	
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627
From: Mike.Reardon@f6.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Reardon)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Blue light blues
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:17:38 -0800

CN> Most of the firefighters I've talked to plan to    
CN> go on using their lights as before and will take their chances. 
They believe 
CN> the lights are beneficial at times and that limiting our use of them
to 
CN> 1/2 mile of the incident is unreasonable. 
 
<text deleted> 
 
CN> We all agreed that we were lucky not to lose the lights altogether. 

 
Chris - 
 
  I read your original post, and can see some of both sides.  However,
for you to continue to use the lights (as you stated above) may well
backfire on you.  As you yourself say, you were lucky not to lose them
altogether.  If you and your friends violate the board's ruling, you are
inviting the board to prohibit them.  You are cutting off your nose to
spite your face! 
 
  The person who was intoxicated was foolish, and was punished.  You
mentioned that you had followed a woman home, and tried to 'educate' her
as to what the blue lights were for.  I submit that in that instance
you, too acted foolishly.  If someone in this area followed someone home
and lectured them, they would be lucky not to get shot.  If you followed
_me_ home I wouldn't shoot you <grin>, but I would raise such a stink
with your supervisor that you might wish I _had_ shot you <grin>.   
 
  Please use some common sense, and see that ignoring the wishes of the
board at this particular time is going to cause trouble for all
involved.  Let things cool down a bit, and then try to persuade the
board to see your way.  Believe me, things are structured such that when
you try to fight the system in a brazen manner, the system will win. 
 
    Mike 
 
 
 * KWQ/2 1.0C * 
                                         

 * Origin: Rampart/2 - <Kansas City> (1:280/6)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists..BBS.(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:14:34 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
From:         Diana DeNearing <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Arson Fire in dorms

I know that up here in PA, my college has a big problem with fire alarms
going off at the wrong times, and not going off when they should. IE. Last
week, Maintenance set off the alarms when they were spraying a chemical,
but the week before, in a trash can fire on the 4th floor of the building,
the fire was put out with an extinguisher and then the alarm had to be
PULLED before it went off. In the kitchen area, we have had about 4 fire
alarms when people were frying butter in the kitchen, but when one of my
friend on the third floor fell asleep with a lit cigarette in hand, the
alarms never went off, although the smoke was so thick that the roomie
couldn't see the floor from his loft 8 ft above ground. The smoke, once the
door was opened, woke all neighbors surrounding the room with the fire. The
alarms never went off, even when the smoke reahed the 1st floor Housing
co-ordinator, when it woke HER up. I do not trust the alarms in our
building. They have been wrong too often for me to take them seriuosly, but
on the same token, I always head outside, even in the wonderful Nor'easter
weather we have, cause the one I choose to ignore would be the most seriuos
one. When asked for an explanation of why the alarms go off at will, we
were given some BS explanation about the alarms being commercial duty, and
picking up large movements of particles as opposed to a small stream or
puff of smoke, as in cigarette smoking. If this is the case, why did our
alarms go off when someone once lit a match under one on his way out of the
building?

Diana
From: Darrin.Culver@f53.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Darrin Culver)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: VOULUNTEER FD AND LIG
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:27:00 -0800

NS>  Their State Police will be sitting there waiting to write you up
on
NS>ilegal lights. Mass authorizes RED lights for FD, and blue for PD. 
Just mor
NS>games the bureocrats get to play with!!

        Yeah! Wouldn't it be nice if all of the states would get
        together and make some "standard" Laws for the use of lights.
        (preferably modeled after one of the states that allows
        Volunteers to use Red Light's and sirens.), just my opinion.<g>

                                                        Later;

                                                        Baby Huey


 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?


 * Origin: BEAR HEAVEN BBS (914) 677-6948 MILLBROOK NY (1:272/53)
From: nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Michael Larish)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Question: EMS Computers & Software
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:09:19 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu


	I am a member of the Butte County Sheriff Search & Rescue unit.
Recently, our unit has started looking into computers, software, etc and how
that may help & enhance our duties and how we perform...  This was largely
prompted by a massive search (36 agencies) we just ran last week in Paradise
Pines, California.  Communications and information during the search could
have been a little better and doing the paperwork and keeping a well organized
trail after the search could stand a LOT of help.

Questions:

o	Are computers used by other search & rescue units in other areas?
	o	If so, what do you use them for?
	o	How do they help you?
	o	What software do you use?
	o	What is the primary function of the software?
	o	Do you like it?


o	What software is out on the market for search & rescue activities?
	o	What is the primary function of the software?
	o	Does it follow a certain logical structure?
		o	We use the "Incident Command" system to run our unit...



	If you can answer any of these questions or give any information that
might seem pertinent to this message, I would appreciate very much hearing
about it.  We're just starting to discuss what we want out of a computer
system, whether or not what we want is out there, how much will a system cost,
how will it help us, does the benefit outweigh the costs, etc.  Information
along these lines is greatly appreciated...

	Please send all replies via E-mail since I don't always get a chance
to read this newsgroup.  Thanks...

-- 
Michael G. Larish       | Amateur Radio Callsign:  KD6CTZ
nomad@ecst.csuchico.edu | Golden Empire Amateur Radio Society (GEARS) - W6RHC
California State        | Chico State Amateur Radio Society (CSARS)
University, Chico       | Butte County Sheriff Search & Rescue - #514
From: Dale.Hammond@f11.n3620.z1.fidonet.org (Dale Hammond)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Pager question..
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:26:18 -0800

In a msg on <Dec1417:26, Michael Sperber of 1:343/94@fidonet writes:

 MS> From: sperber@ee.rochester.edu (Michael Sperber)


 MS> 	Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I figured 
 MS> that this group probably is the best place to post this.

 MS> My campus EMS group here at the Universtiy of Rochester is 
 MS> interested in getting Motorola Minitor II pagers.  Problem: 
 MS> Some of the professors might not like the distraction of the 
 MS> tones going off in class.  Solution: A pager like the Minitor 
 MS> II, but includes a vibrate option.  Is there one on the 
 MS> market, or are the professors going to have to suck up and 
 MS> deal?!?

 MS> please feel free to respond either by posting or email..

 MS> thanks

 MS> Mike Sperber

Mike,
 I don't know about a "silent" option, but there is another solution, if
you keep it on alert it will only go off(beep) when your group is "toned
out".
There is a Motorola Minitor II SV, this unit records two(2) 30 sec(I
think it might be 10sec) pages. This would help you could keep it turned
down and listen to it after class, or the other option I could think of
would be to use an ear phone(1) plug it into the pager and put the ear
piece into you right or left ear, depending on which side you wear your
pager, have have dones this and it works well, especially for in
classrooms. you can by the earphone and adapter(if needed) at Radio
Shack.

This is just helpful hints. 


 <- Dale ->

 * Origin: =-Dream Weavers BBS-= St.Augustine,Fl. (904)823-0947
(1:3620/11)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: jrcodl@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Pumper For Sale
Reply-To: jrcodl@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:40:32 GMT

                           Engine/pumper  For Sale

Make:  Ward/LaFrance             Year:  1971

Engine:  Gas, 534 cubic inch, good     Model:  900, Cab over

Mileage:  15527 miles        Transmission:  Spicer-5652, 5-speed

Tire Size\Condition\Type:  Rear-10.00 X 20, Goodyear, Mud and Snow, almost new
                                         Front-10.00 X 20, Firestone, highway, original

Chasis\Body Condition:  Good,  fair Brakes: Hydraulic, with booster

Pump:  Hale, 1000 gpm, 2 stage centrifugal, rebuilt 1981

Temperature Indicator on pump

Tank:  750 gallons with anode rods  Siren: Federal with brake

Warning Lights:  Gumball on cab, flashing post lights on rear

Truck removed from service: Replaced, October 11, 1992

Ladders: 1-24' extension,  1-14' roof  both good

Hose reels:  2 with electric rewind,  150' hose each

Hard Suction:  3-10' x 5"

Miscellaneous:
                 5" basket strainer
                 5" to 4-1/2" double female adaptor
                 5" to 2  2-1/2" gated wye inlet
                 2  pike head axes
                  1  6' pike pole

Bids must be received by April 10th at:
                   A. E. Crandall Hook & Ladder Company Inc.
                    Box 582
                    Alfred, New York  14802

For further  information or to inspect truck call

Chief Ron Doerschug  (607) 587-8233
                 or
            Rich Hoffman  (607) 587-8349 
*******************************************************************
John Coburn                The opinions expressed are not necessary
JRCODL@RITVAX.RIT.EDU
JRCODL@RITVAX.BITNET
JRCODL@BIGVAX.ALFRED.EDU
JRCODL@CERAMICS.BITNET
*******************************************************************
From: jdiorio@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: D.C. Freq's
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:42:49 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

Does anyone out there have a listing of D.C. scanner frequencies?
I'm interested in finding:
	1) Metro Police Dept. Primary channels
	2) D.C. Fire Paramedic Primary channels


Thank you in advance,


   _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/   _/     _/_/_/                 Jonathan R. Diorio  
     _/    _/  _/  _/_/ _/     _/    _/               EMT-A
_/  _/    _/  _/  _/ _/_/     _/    _/              JDIORIO@guvax.bitnet
 _/_/    _/_/_/  _/   _/     _/_/_/    _/         JDIORIO@guvax.georgetown.edu


	"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any
	 Vice President, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"

        	                    	        -V.P. Dan Quayle 

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
X-Envelope-to: emerg-l@marist.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"emerg-l@marist.bitnet"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:02:16 -0500
From:         AIRBORNE THE FIREMAN IS BACK <CDUNBAR@UNTVAX.BITNET>

It seems to me that most of the server trafffic is from the New York area.  It
is also safe to assume that most of ya'all up in that part of the country are
too busy with rescues and such to write to this post;  understandable.  When the
situation calms down up there, ya'all up in New York tell us about it.

I have read horror stories in the newspaper about substancial flooding in
parts of Manhattan, New Jersey Coastal areas, high winds all around, people
trapped in cars...  I imagine everyone from that area will want to tell their
stories.  I'd like to hear them.

Thanks in advance, ya'all.

Christophe
From: bguest@ateam.ems.cdc.com (Brandon Guest)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: P.P VENTILATION
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:47:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp_ser.31052
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Control Data

In article <8050@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.164019.24999@news.ysu.edu> af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks) writes:
>>Nuts to the EPA! Live burn training works best!  
>
>Say what? Are the enviro-weenies trying to do away with training firefighters
>by having them (gasp) fight fires?
>-- 
>Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
>  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button


Here in Minnesota, it takes about an inch of paperwork to conduct a
live fire burn.  Some of this is from the PCA (our state version of
EPA), part for the NFPA live fire burn standard, and part for the
authority having jurisdiction.  As part of this we must have permission
from just about everyone within eyeball distance of the burn site and
the PCA only allows us three live burns per year.

One innovative solution to this was developed by a couple of the local
VoTech schools.  These two schools built a burn trailer which is, in
effect, a mobile burn building.  There are no restrictions on its use
and it can be used to simulate every aspect of a real live burn (short
of making it a parking lot- which I'm sure you could do if they let
you) including horizontal an vertical ventilation.  They have
replacable panels which can be cut through on the roof.  This can all
be 'rented' as part of a class for about $500 a day.  This is probably
less than what we spend on cleaning up and 'making safe' many of the
houses that we later burn down.

Brandon


-- 
H. Brandon Guest                | bguest@ems.cdc.com
Empros Systems International    | (A division of Something)
2300 Berkshire Lane North       | Voice (612) 553-4529
Plymouth, MN 55441-3694         | Fax   (612) 553-4018
From: Paul.Vallone@f233.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Vallone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: PATCHES
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:17:00 -0800

TH> Todd Hockert
TH> FM Ambulance Service
TH> 1101 1st Avenue South
TH> Fargo, ND 58103
TH>
TH> Paul, I can't remember if I sent you one already. I sent about 8
letters
TH> out Thursday 12-11 so they should start arriving at the destinations
next
TH> week. Let me know if you don't get anything at the end of next
week.
Hi Todd:
I'll let you if I get your patches,next week ..
Thanks for your self address..

Paul..  
 
 * Origin: Whistle Stop BBS {Berkshire County Fire Board} (1:321/233.0)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:26:00 GMT
From:         Daniel Burstein <0001964967@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject:      fire alarms in dorms

The problem of people making fake alarm calls (technically referred
to as "malicious false alarms") is not only an issue in campus
dorms, but also a very real problem in most cities.  In NYC, for example,
roughly onethird of fire alarms are MFAs.

There are ways to safely REDUCE (never eliminate) this problem, and
basically youse pays your money and you takes your choice.

A few techniques:
  a) The actual pullbox can be enclosed in a second, "overbox", made
(usually) of transparent plastic.  Pulling the cover sets of a LOCAL
buzzer which gets imemdiate attention from anyone in teh area.
  ALSO, the material can be dusted for fingerprints for an
after-the-fact.
  b) The pull box can be replaced, or supplanted, with a voice
respons system.  With this type of arrangement, teh person
pushes a button and then is questioned.
  c) you can even go to having television cameras monitor each box...

there are pluses and minuses in each.  The biggest single problem
is that the "cost" if people don't set off (or pay attention to!) a
legitimate alarm can be VERY high.  That's why even the most
MFA'ed boxes in NYC (and there are some which may get five a day)
stillget some sort of response.

The basic issue comes down to someone having to figure out the
cost, and come up with the right amount of money.  Unfortunaelty,
schools tend to consider stuident life disruptiona relatively low
priority, so they'll spend little money.  If, on teh other hand,
each alarm was transmitted to the fire deparment, and they
had authority to fine the campus $10,000 for each MFA, you'd quickly
see some more safeguards in place.

----------------

Note that this is VERY different from what I'll call a "good intentions"
alarm.  For example, someone may smell what they think is smoke, but
it really was just some brain cells burning from heavy studyimg.

------------------

In regards to smoke detectors going off at the wrong times...  There
are TWO different techniques used to detect fire (in common civilian
situations).  There are smoke detectors, and there are temperature
(heat) detectors.  The heat sensors are pretty immune (if properly
installed, of course) to false alarms.  the problems are with teh
smoke units.

They can be "fooled" by anything that produces either an increase
in particulate material (i.e. smoke) in the air, or by anything
which reduces the light flow through the air.

The problem is that you WANT them to be very sensitive.  Making
them selective, though, is pretty tricky.  There are computer
algorithyms in place which will do things like compare smoke
density changes, but the risks of "missing" real smoke
are just too high.

So the way to prevent cooking from setting the off is simple:
  a) don't burn your food
  b) have an exhaust vent.

----------------

take care,
<dburstein@mcimail.com> <----direct e-mail address
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: Pro-Berks Inc.-Reading,Pa..The EMS Specialists.BBS.(215)929-4315
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:20:54 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
From:         Diana DeNearing <diana@PRO-BERKS.CTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Arson Fire in dorms

Buy an alarm? No, not me.. But for Scorch, my friend who had the cigarette
fire, he got one, and now his roommate got one.. Like I said, as annoying
as our alarms may be, I really have no choice but to trust their
judgement.. There is very little in my room that would ignite.. <Not that
it won't, it's just there isn't much that would.> I keep all my outlets in
control, have my wood loft away from the heater and outlets, don't smoke,
and neither does my roomie, and neither of us are ever in the room with the
lights long for long enough for them to go.. Now that I've just cursed my
room, I think I'll go to the lobby, where I can be pre-warned of the
kitchen alarms.. =)

Diana
/s
From: George.Vaisey@f330.n2613.z1.fidonet.org (George Vaisey)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Dutchess County
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:41:00 -0800

Darrin,
        I intercepted your message to Stephen Anthony Chinatti.  If you
don't mind could I get a copy of your frequencies for Dutchess county. 
I have few but, would like to have as many as possible.  I have it put
into a frequency d-base.  It records and allows you to print search and
do much more.  If you are interested in trading those frequency for a
copy of the SHAREWARE VERSION (I am an officll tester & distributer) of
that program I would be more then glad to send it to ya via "Snail Mail"
or File Request it from Paradise BBS (716) 621-7637.  If you want you
can send me those frequencies in the mail and send me your address and
I'll mail it our right away.

        This program was writttten by David Pinero who can be reached on
the FireNet conference.  Thank you for your time.


                         George Vaisey
                         30 Fourth Avenue
                         Rochester, N.Y. 14612
                         (716) 227-4650

 * Origin: PARADISE, BBS -Rochester, NY- (716) 621-7637 (1:2613/330)
From: johnk@consilium.com (John Kelleher)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Junior Firefighter programs
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:19:36 GMT
Organization: Consilium. Inc.
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d14
X-XXDate: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:18:47 GMT

Junior Firefighter programs

In article <1992Dec15.110229.186@kenyon.edu> , kindbom@kenyon.edu writes:
>Does anyone have information on junior firefighter programs?  I am
>specifically interested in insurance/liability issues, if any, in having
junior >members participate in training with the department.  So far we
have .>been very informal with the handful of junior members, and would
like >to become more organized.  I have worked up a program proposal, but
>would be interested in what other volunteer departments do, and would
>be willing to share the program we have decided on.
>Jane Kindbom   FF/EMT-A

Jane, you might want to contact your local Boy Scout office.  There is a
program for Emergency Service Exploring (ages 14 and up) which could
help.  It is rather restrictive on precisely what the members can and
can't do (BSA has fought too many lawsuits over the years) but may also
be a ralistic startng point for you.  I suspect your department's
insurance policy would take issue about 14-year-olds in burning buildings
too.
 
A few years ago, I worked with such an Explorer Post, and we found that
"creative definitions" would get us around many of the regulations.  When
our kids wanted to attend the Texas A&M fire training school, the local
BSA screamed "no can do".  But a call to the national office got us
permission.  After all, we weren't going into any _burning_ buildings -
just _non-burning_ buildings full of burning stuff, like hay and tires. 
Each kid has his or her own top event of the day, from operating the
snorkel monitor to the smokehouse to the gas christmas tree.
 
Good luck.  Keep us posted on how your group progresses.
 
John Kelleher
johnk@consilium.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU