From: ls0823@wuche1.wustl.edu (Labros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Romanians in Greece?
Organization: Washington University in St. Louis
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:26:40 GMT

Let me just say a few more words, based on the arguments of
Andronicos Romanos.

I don't think there is any confusion between Vlachs and the fact that
the  name "Rom-.." is used by greeks. Certainly the question was regarding
the connection between the Vlachs, the latin language and Wallachia.

But, slightly diverging from the original topic, I would like to stress 
that there can be easily a confusion between romanians (from Romania!)
and other peoples using the word "Rom-..." for themeselves - or called 
like that by others.

The name "Romania" was selected for the romanian nation (please correct
me , I could easily be wrong) relatively recently, in the 19 th century,
when the principalities
-if I could call them like that- of Wallachia and Moldavia were united
after independence. Their people were similar and believed (and still do)
to be descendants of the latinized Thracian tribe of Gets (roman Dacians)
mixed with roman colonists. The name "Romania" was chosen (again, please
correct me if I'm wrong) on the basis of this theory and a somewhat
romantic memory and link with Rome (not any more romantic than ours with
our past, of course). I remember, when I was in Cluj, seing a statue of
the roman female wolf symbol; the city also uses its ancient roman name,
Napoca...

But let's return to the topic. About everybody else who has any link with
Rome uses a name "Rom-.." and this can create a lot of confusion. One of
these people are ourselves, the greeks.

The byzantine empire, as you know, was the greek-speaking
 heir to the (eastern) roman
empire, and was progressively being confined to the greek regions, until 
it became (especially after 10th cent ) almost completely greek.
Nevertheless, it always called itself "roman" and its peoples "romans".
Eventually, "roman" (in greek, "romaios", or "romios" in everyday language)
ended up meaning "greek" -for the greeks- up to our days.
The westerners did not agree (!), since others liked this name too; I
remember reading that a Holy-Roman emperor (another .. challenger for
inheritance of the roman empire) insulted the Byzantine emperor in the 
9th century, by 
addressing him as "emperor of the greeks" rather than
 "emperor of the romans"!

Nonetheless, the byzantine empire was called in the greek peoples' 
everyday language "Romania" (yes, as you read it , with the tone
on the "i"), and "Romania" ended up roughly denoting the greek
lands in the middle ages; subsequently, the general area
- not essentially only greek - was called "Rumeli" in turkish, from
"Rum" : roman.

Funnily enough, I remember a 13th (?) century Italian (Venetian?)
painting of the greek city of Nafplion , which, in this italian
artifact was called "Napoli di Romania". (i.e., "Napoli" (Nafplion)
of "Romania" (greek area) to differentiate from the Italian city of
the same (for them!) name)...

Anyway, I'll stop here; my message is getting too long, and it may be 
becoming boring! 
I'll be very glad to hear from our romanian friends any other
relevant arguments/information...

With the best regards,
Labros Skartsis

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian