HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Golden Gate Gardening
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:57:06 UTC

In article <3740069@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> 
jill@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Jill Swenson) writes:
>Kind of a postscript on the "what do gardeners want for Christmas" string...
>This is what I got and I LOVE it!
>My favorite Christmas present was a book especially for those of us
>gardening in the fog belt from Santa Monica up into Oregon.  Specifically
>the foggy areas near the ocean with cool summers, warm autumns and mild
>winters.  The book is called "Golden Gate Gardening" by Pam Peirce (yes,
>"e" before "i") and is available from agAccess in Davis (916) 756-7177. 
>Call for a price.  I don't know much about agAccess, but their catalog
>lists oodles of agriculture and horticulture books, videotapes and research
>services.  Sounds pretty neat.

Great book. ISBN: 0-932857-10-8, 400 pgs, ~$25. agAccess is probably the 
premier source of Ag/Gardening learning materials.

>The author has obviously gardened for years in San Francisco and isn't
>afraid to share both successes and failures.  The book covers what will
>and will not grow in foggy, borderline and relatively sunny areas,
>recommends especially successful varieties and when to plant them.  It 
>shows how to interpret such statements as "as soon as the ground can be
>worked" in an area where the ground never freezes, tells about expected
>frustrations (a corn listed for 55 days takes 90 days in a sunny SF garden),
>and tells why our weather is the way it is.
> ...
>This book is absolutely wonderful, and the author really knows her stuff.
>The planting advice is pretty specific to the coast and won't apply as 
>well to warmer areas such as Palo Alto or Santa Rosa, but many of the 
>pest control and information resources are helpful for all.  Check it out!

It applies to anyplace with cool summers, say average highs below 85oF
and average nightime lows below 65oF, though written specifically for
San Francisco with average summers of 65/55oF. Palo Alto has something
like 75oF average summer highs, that's cool summers. Santa Rosa is
warmer with probably 85oF average summer highs, but nights are cool,
probably 52oF or so. September is the warmest month.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu (Joseph Seeley)
Subject: Cranberry bush
Summary: any experience? 
Organization: UIUC Computer-based Education Research Lab
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:53:27 GMT

I'm looking for a screening plant (7-8 ft).  A couple of places list
a cranberry bush that looks promising -- right height (though I don't
know how long it will take to get there), various colors during the
year (white flowers, fall foliage), and edible berries.  Since I don't
need screening in the winter, this could work.  What's the downside?
Berries aren't that useful?  Crops pretty small?  Takes 20 years to
reach full height?  My edible landscaping book covers only the bog-type
cranberry.

Thanks.

Joseph Seeley	| seeley@cerl.uiuc.edu
		| seeley / cca / cerl
From: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Grow lights
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:52:26 GMT
Reply-To: pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: "Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation, Dallas, TX."
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.central.sun.com

Are the florescent grow light bulbs worth the money?  I have seen a 4ft bulb
for ~$11, this seems high.  

Last year I used standard "soft white" tubes in my fixture, and the plants seemed
to do fine.  I have heard that one cool and one warm bulb give good light.  
I have a standard 4ft shop light suspended by chains, so I can adjust the height
(two bulb).

What are some recommendations for bulb configuration?  
If "grow" light are better, what is a reasonable price?


Pete
pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: landscape questions
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Organization: NRL
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:44:41 GMT

How about perennial ornamental grasses? They're easy to grow, come in all
shapes, sizes, and colors, and look nice in 3.5 seasons (the exception is
the 3-4 weeks in the early spring, after the old foliage is cut down & the
new stuff hasnt grown much yet).  I think most of them are hardy to your
area (not Pampas grass, I know, but check the Miscanthus family & others).
They can be divided every few years, too, so you can get alot out of the
initial investment. 

Another favorite of mine is the Nandina family (called heavenly bamboo, but
not really bamboo) --- beautiful foliage, & some have lots of red berries
for birds to enjoy in winter. Wish I had the room to indulge ....

I just put in a dwarf red Nandina so I don't have much feeling for
hardiness etc. (plus I'm in a warmer zone, sorry). But I can vouch for the
Miscanthus (different varieties), ribbon grass (kind of a weed, though),
and Pennisetum (I think) that have been growing in my little yard for a few
years --- they really liven up the scene all year long. Even when they're
cut down they're useful; the stalks can be cut up and used for mulch or put
into the compost bin. There are several books out on Ornamental Grasses;
I've got one at home but can't recall the name (if you're interested email
me & I'll look it up). 

Enjoy your new house & garden!
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: cl27111@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher  Lindsey)
Subject: Re: plant database
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:44:49 GMT

	Dave, hang on to your hat...  If you can wait until May, I am
planning on releasing my first version of the Plant Finder into the 
ShareWare market...  It is setup to support any kind of database,
with all of the information that you listed incorporated with some other
goodies...  Databases can be written by the user, or will be available
pre-typed (wildflowers of NE US, trees, shrubs, grasses, etc.)

	I'm excited by this project, and the graphical computer environment
I've created for it seems to be holding up...  So, hopefully, it'll be out
in May...

Chris
From: carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Worms and Home Composting in Winter
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:16:33 GMT
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO


	Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes:
>The worms used here in England are those used by fishermen, your should
>be able to obtain them quite easily from any shop selling fishing
>tackle.

There is a big difference between the 1000 or so varieties of worms --
the big fat earthworms that fisherfolk use would not be happy in a
wormbox.  The little bitty redworms that are sold specifically for
vermiculture are extremely content within a wormbox.  Look in the
classified section in the back of Orgasmic Gardening for about 30
suppliers...
-- 
Steve Carnes       carnes@ico.isc.com        uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!carnes
   "Rock gives reality to the otherwise abstract notion of transhuman
    time." - Edward Abbey
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much)
Subject: Re: Need help on locating English roses in the Bay Area....
Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:59:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.195636.13925@ntmtv> nguyenpd@ntmtv.UUCP (Phat Nguyen) writes:
>Do any of you know any nurseries in the South Bay that sell English
>roses?  Thank you very much in advance.

Wegman's in Redwood City has about half a dozen, including Mary Rose,
Heritage, and Abraham Darby.  Roger Reynolds in Menlo Park was
expecting (I think) 8 or 9 varieties when I checked them before
Thanksgiving.  Those are both mid-Peninsula, but I don't know of any
farther south.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathleen Much, Editor		|E-mail: kathleen@casbs.stanford.EDU
CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd.	|Phone: (415) 321-2052
Stanford, CA  94305		|Fax: (415) 321-1192
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill)
Subject: Landtech products?
Summary: any experience with
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:55:39 GMT


Hi all!  Hope everyone's holidays were good.

I've spent mine adding all sorts of organic matter in
preparing my summer garden.  I was getting ready to
purchase some steer manure when the salesman recommended
"Landtech Soil Activator" or "Landtech Bio Organic Fertilizer"
rather than manure for the garden.  He says that they contain:
	Chicken Manure
	Peat Moss
	Rock Phosphate
	EDH - pharmaceutical grade to encourage composting?

According to him the difference between the two products is the 
amount of Peat Moss included.  Anyways, he is sending me some
literature.  My questions are:

1.  Does this qualify as Organic?  Everything looks good except the
    EDH.
2.  Has anyone in this group ever used this?  Results?

Personally, I would just rather add plain manure but my soil needs
help in the worst way (alkaline, caliche.. typical Phoenix
desert soil)

If anyone is interested I'll post some of the propaganda when I
receive it.

Thanks,
Heather.
--
hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: farland@outland.b24a.ingr.com (Theresa McFarland)
Subject: Re:  topiary ... - long answer
Summary: alternative garden art
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:57:35 GMT

In article <lynx.03s2@surrey.amigans.gen.nz> lynx@surrey.amigans.gen.nz (Lynsey Gedye) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.154548.337@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>>(no bird baths... too many feral cats around)
>  ...See also rec.hunting =;)
>
>>I find this sudden letch for schlock difficult to reconcile with my BFA
>>degree, but there you are.  Collapse of taste can creep up on any of
>>us..... However, I am still trying to maintain some standards.
>
>  A sudden raise in taste can creep up just as mercilessly. =;)
>
>  Anyway, the ready-made.  Garden centre bits of old cement.  Sex appeal
>  of a car accident.  No, Alice, go for the REAL ready-made.  You know
>  what I mean - the bottle drying rack, bike wheel on the stool, go wild,
>  have the first garden on your block with a urinal in the front yard!
>  I've seen old toilets used as planters - much more stylish than some
>  cheap asian imported planter.  I live to see an avocado w.c. used as a
>  planter for an avocado.  Go Duchamp, go.
>
>  And of course bidets - what are they for except watering ferns?
>--
>           lynx@surrey.amigans.gen.nz    lynx@amigans.gen.nz

I can't believe you actually forgot to mention the up-turned 
bathtub to form an arch (often with Virgin Mary residing beneath the 
arch).  Especially attractive with ivy growing up it.

Stupendous!

--
Theresa McFarland
Somewhere in Alabama USA.
From: karen@misty.boeing.com (Karen Robinson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:44:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Cure for Moles?
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support
Newsgroups: rec.gardens


Go to the Garden department at McLendon's hardware in Renton.  There
is a person(woman) there who will recommend the right kind of trap.

Buy several (it will cost you some, but you MUST get ahead of the
moles soon or you will never defeat them!).  

Carefully set your traps IN THEIR MAIN RUNS (not necessarily near the
mounds).  Check traps daily.  If the traps spring without catching a
mole, reset and keep at it until you learn proper trapping technique.

You probably have more than one mole already--don't delay if they are
active (though with the ground frozen this could be tough on both you
and the moles).
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP])
Subject: Re: Preparing Clay Soil for Planting
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:29:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.232543.3549@voodoo.ca.boeing.com>, mnb@mira.ca.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes:
|> >In article <1992Dec29.184101.19659@gvl.unisys.com> garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP]) writes:
|> >>Hey Now Everybody,
|> >>
|> >>    Construction on my new house will be complete in a couple of
|> >>months.  My family has all kinds of grandiose plans for the
|> >>backyard landscape.  The house is in the Denver, CO area and
|> >>the soils are very heavy (a lot of clay).  To make matters
|> >>worse, the builder removed and discarded the top
|> >>18" of soil during construction.
|> >
|> 
|> Actually, I bet he didn't "discard" it.... any bets that he's got a sweet
|> deal with some nursery???  Pretty slimy - when I build I'm going to insist
|> that the topsoil doesn't leave the property.
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> Michael Burr  Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
|>               Email:mnb@voodoo.ca.boeing.com


Actually, the soil is in a near constant kinetic state: Moving from
fill soil to the bottom of driveway forms to the edges of new streets
to ....

All along the way, it gets mixed with more and more crud.  There
are 15 foot tall mounds of earth all over the subdivision
which contain scrap wood, steel
cuttings, chunks of concrete, used up rebar, and, in one case,
an old and dilapidated school house chair with attached desk.

Thanks to everybody for the advice on clay soil preparation.
I have one question... How does one go about mixing
bark chips 4 feet into soil?


Party On...

Gary P.
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Source for Holy Basil
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:26:23 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>As an aside to the question of holy basil's scent, it actually
>smells similar to cinnamon basil. I can't say as I'm overly 
>fond of either of them. 

They both have an aura of eau de overripe catbox, to me.  I
use them in Thai cooking, sometimes, but can't get really
enthused.  The scent can be pretty rank. 

I understand that it is known as "holy basil" because it tends
to grow on the grounds of temples in Southeast Asia.
--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has 
a *very bad* day."  --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton)
Subject: Re: Cranberry bush
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:00:17 GMT

Regarding cranberry bush, as the poster from Finland noted, you
are probably talking about the vibernum commonly referred to as
American high-bush cranberry.  I have two in my yard and right now
and they have a lot of showy red berries on them, which the birds
eventually eat.

The fruit does taste a lot like cranberries and is edible, but since
each berry has a rather big seed, I don't think they will ever replace
cranberries.

I have seen them growing on the edges of woods, where they get
pretty tall and rather rangy.  Mine are supposed to be dwarf and compact,
but they are already about 10' tall, and not very compact.

Flowers are okay, and I think fall color is a nice yellow, but winter
interest (red berries) is this shrub's forte.

Dave Daulton
From: Val.Gillman@altern8.mi.org (Val Gillman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lavender dentata
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:32:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: altern8.726623235.1

I saw this on Victory Garden when they were in Australia. I'd
like to grow it in a pot. Anyone know where I could get a plant
or seeds?

 * XXYW 1.12 * No matter where you go, there you are.
From: bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Cacti seeds
Date: 12 Jan 1993 00:18:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


I recently wound up with some cacti and succulent seeds. They 
were ordered for me as a gift by a well-meaning friend.

Can anyone suggest the best method for growing these? I don't
know that much about growing plants from seed.

Thanx in advance,

Stuart
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re: cacti seeds
Date: 12 Jan 93 12:46:34 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Passing on a note from me, in reply to Bob Jewett's <jewett@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.COM>
note about my cactus germination methods:  (Bob gave me permission to post)  

Klier said:
> Sprinkle the seeds in a +/- even layer over
> the top, then cover with about 1/4" sand.

Jewett said:
Some cactus books I have say the seeds need light to germinate.  I've only
tried one mixed seed packet so far, and got about 50% germination rate
(75 seedlings survived) with the seeds on the surface of the sand or
just under a monolayer.

Klier:
  Hi, Bob!  The light needed for germination is just the red wavelengths,
  and it will penetrate a couple of inches in most soil-- farther in sand.
  You just can't germ them in total darkness, like the inside of a 
  refrigerator that's been converted to an incubator.   


Jewett:
One thing that didn't work so well starting them on the top of the sand was
that the seedlings were very poorly supported and were in danger of 
breaking off at the top of the root.

Klier:
   Yeah, they can be tricky that way.  We had a problem with a greenhouse
   worker that didn't want to use a water breaker-- just a finger over
   the end of a hose.  Washed a lot of sand out from one of the trays
   that way :-(     We "solved" the problem by gently tipping the tray to
   one side and applying more sand with a salt shaker, to build a cushion
   under the seedlings, then tipped it the other way to do the other side.

Klier:
> If you want to get fancy about it, I've germinated mixed species of cactus
> at 65oF, and waited for everything that was going to germinate to come up.
> Then I transplanted those seedlings and moved the seed tray to 75oF,
...

Jewett:
This sounds like a neat idea.  I didn't vary the temperature on my first
attempt -- just a constant 70F or so.

I just got a bunch of seeds from a company in England, and am about to
start germination attempts.  With only 15 seeds of each of about 120
species, I'd like to keep the germination rate up.
  
Klier:
   Start at the coolest temp you're going to try with mixed seeds, 
   then move to warmer.  Some seeds (I don't know if cacti are among them)
   will go into deep dormancy and refuse to germinate if they are subjected
   to too high a temp.  In any case, warmer temps means the seeds respire
   faster, using up stored food reserves.

Jewett:
Some starting instructions I have recommend soaking the tray in a fungicide
before sowing.  How do you feel about this?

Klier:
  I soak everything-- pots, flats, tools-- in 10% chlorox for half an hour,
  then rinse with plain water and dry a couple of days.  Works for me.
  Cheap, too! 8-)
 
  I'm not thrilled with the usual fungicides-- my skin gets enough insult
  from all the other chemicals, I really don't want to dip my fingers in
  maneb, zineb, etc...  Just my quirkiness, I guess.

  120 species?!?!?!?  Sounds like fun!  8-) 8-) 8-)
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Questions concerning SALSIFY/VEGETABLE OYSTER
Date: 12 Jan 1993 19:26:35 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article <1isao0INNjjf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bk134@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith William Bowes) writes:
>
>I've seen SALSIFY/VEGETABLE OYSTER listed in
>almost all of my seed catalogs. But they usually
>
>Has anyone had any experience with this vegetable?

It's a weed out here.  Nice flowers, though.

>Does it's taste really approach oysters? 

No idea.  We don't eat shellfish.  Ever.

On the other hand, if it *does* taste like oysters,
then oysters may not be that bad.

Since it is a local weed (Weed: a plant for which you don't
yet know a good use for), we picked a bunch from our lawn.

Washed, sliced up roots, sauteed with a bit of salt and
butter.

The taste?  :}

Then we weeded the neighbors, found it growing in vacant
lots (that we *knew* hadn't been sprayed with anything.
For years.

I suppose that this year we'll plant some commercial seed
and maybe get bigger roots to deal with.

(The ones we tried weren't interesting at all until cooked,
but garden-grown commercial varieties may be a little less
tough.)

My kids see nothing wrong with cooking and eating certain
weeds...but have enough sense to do a little research before
trying a new one.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Subject: Re: Burpee strawberry bush tower
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:33:57 CST

In article <1993Jan11.184755.9856@dazixco.ingr.com>, dorisl@shrooms.ingr.com (Doris Lippert) writes:
|> 
|> I've been contemplating buying a Burpee strawberry bush tower.
|> It's this wood pyramid which you fill with dirt and can grow
|> strawberries or whatever in on your patio.  It's 2 feet tall and
|> 2 sq. ft. at the base.
|> 
|> Has anybody had any experience with growing strawberries this
|> way?  Good or bad?
|> Also, have you seen this in any other catalogs? Burpee's costs $80,
|> which seems a little high.
|> The tower comes with 50 TriStar (I think) day neutral strawberries.  Is
|> this a good strawberry for the Front Range of Colorado?
|> Can I expect many strawberries in the first year?
|> 
|> Doris


      I am thinking of growing strawberries in large (2 cubic feet)
strawberry urns this summer.  I use tristar.  In this area (Wash DC),
it, like all strawberries , suffers from summer heat.  Tristar
planted in late March from crowns with just a few tiny leaves
grows into full sized bearing plants by early June.  I can usually
get some decent berries in June; then summer heat hits and the
berries get smaller, fewer, and softer.   I get a second crop
of good berries in September, then short days and chilly weather
stop them.  My mother plants usually die in late summer and the late summer
and fall berries are from daughters. (Tristar produces lots of runners).  When
conditions are good Tristar and other day neutral strawberries crop
in flushes every four to six weeks. My
garden area is plowed every October so I have to grow strawberries
as annuals.   This will be the first year I try large containers.
     Strawberries like cool roots and good drainage.  The combination
of high soil temperatures and waterlogging  will kill them in a 
few hours.    Try to keep any bare soil mulched or otherwise
protected from strong sun in midsummer.   

     I suspect that with cooler nights, Tristar will do better 
for you than it does for me and it does okay for me.

From 1985-1987,
 I grew another variety (sweetheart) in 2" deep 2' square planting trays on
a terrace in North Florida.  Each plant produced 1-2 berries
per day in spring and I had around a half dozen plants.  Bearing season
was March-June then the heat killed them.  The ones in sand lasted
longer than the ones in potting soil because the sand drained better.
I don't have enough resources to do controlled trials but decided in 1989
to switch to Tristar in my DC rental garden.


The short answer is.   Yes I think Tristar will grow well in your
area.  Yes you will get a decent yield of berries the first year
starting 60-90 days after planting.  Pyramids look to me like a
good way to grow them.  I don't know what you would do with the runners
or how easily you could overwinter the plants.   My experience has
been that bright sunshine and frozen soil are a deadly combination
but bright sunshine is hard to find in my backyard in winter.

Good luck.   

Reasonable criticism from other gardeners is invited and appreciated.