HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Why was Patrese so slow?
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:01:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Nov09.012718.29965@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>Now, why Patresse was consistently so slow in the race as well as in
>the qualifying can be due to one or all of four reasons:
>
>1. lack of skill
>2. inferior or broken (during race) equipment
>3. lack of motivation
>4. knowing it's a long hard race, he wants to save chassis and rubber

You left out
 5. driving defensively to make sure that Berger didn't get past him.

That's how I called it during the early part of the race.  The McLarens
were extremely competitive (I guess Adelaide suits the Honda horsepower).
If Patrese had had a buffer between himself and Berger he could probably
have been a little faster, but he chose to drive a defensive line through
the corners.  For most of the circuit the Williams & McLaren cars seemed
to be pretty well matched, although there was one part of the circuit (a
complex involving several bends in quick succession) where Berger made up
a little ground on Patrese each lap.  Interestingly enough this was also
the one place on the circuit where Mansell and Senna differed noticeably,
although in that case Mansell did a little better than Senna every time.

Hmm - now I think about it, this may well have been where *the incident*
occured.  Maybe Senna was so used to Mansell getting away from him through
that set of turns that he just assumed it was going to happen again . . .
-- 
John Francis                                 johnf@apollo.hp.com
with 9 cats to feed, I don't have time to think up a clever .sig
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Sport Salaries
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:30:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: utarlg.9NOV199221304780
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


A list of top sport salaries for '92 was in this months Forbes, for your
enjoyment I typed some of it in.

Athlete              Sport           '92 Income
Michael Jordan       Basketball       35.9 M
Evander Holyfield    Boxing           28.0 M (1)
Ayrton Senna         Auto Racing      22.0 M
Nigel Mansell        Auto Racing      14.5 M
Arnold Palmer        Golf             11.1 M
Andre Agassi         Tennis           11.0 M
Joe Montana          Football          9.5 M
Jack Nicklaus        Golf              9.2 M
Jim Courier          Tennis            9.0 M
Monica Seles         Tennis            8.5 M
Larry Holmes         Boxing            8.2 M
Gerhard Berger       Auto Racing       8.0 M
Michael Chang        Tennis            8.0 M
Steffi Graf          Tennis            7.8 M
Wayne Gretzky        Hockey            7.5 M
Riccardo Patrese     Auto Racing       7.5 M

Notes:
(1) Doesn't include salary from this Fridays fight. (go Holyfield !)

Also, the salaries represent salary + product endorsements, excluding
product endorsements would result in Holyfield, Senna, Mansell. Once
again top F1 drivers share honors with the Heavyweight Champion for
Highest Paid Althete. With Mansell to cheaper waters and Senna on the
sideline (hopefully not, but...) the list should look alot different
for '93. Does anyone know what Monsieur Prost will be paid ?

George
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dp54@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Rob Silcher)
Subject: Re: Schumacher for 1993 champion?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:48:33 GMT

In article <BxKIG9.4r9@fang.att.com> agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92)) writes:
>Ryan T. Wood writes:
>>
>>Don't forget about the Ferrari's.  New team manager and new design.  They'll 
>>be ready!!  <I hope and pray that they'll be ready!!>
>>
>>                                   /  \
>>                      |============================|
>>                      |============================|
>>                      |         /   []   \         |
>>          __________  |=============[]=============|  __________
>>         /          \ | ____/_______[]_______\____ | /          \
>>         |          |  /_____/~~~~~~[]~~~~~~\_____\  |          |
>>         |          |********|  Ferrari F1  |********|          |
>>         |          |********|_____    _____|********|          |
>>         |          | _|_____/@@ @@\__/@@ @@\_____|_ |          |
>>         \__________/                                \__________/
>>   ~`'~~`~~~~'~~~'~~`~~'~`~~~`~~`'~~'~~`~~`'~'`~`~'~~`~~~`~~`~~`~~~`~~
>>               Yes, I'm still a devoted Ferrari F1 fan!!!
>>
>-- 

Hey, I wan't to know - are those '92 spec tires or '93?

Rob

k>Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
>Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
>Voice: 407 660 7949               ". . . big brown river . . ." Tuli Kupferberg


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ngoldber@nyx.cs.du.edu (norm goldberg)
Subject: Traction control failure on Mansell's car
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:43:16 GMT


     Well, i just read the Franch sports daily L'equipe (France) and they
had an interview with Reneult's Bernard Dudot recaping the whole season.
Anyhow, he said in the telemetry print out that they analysed on monday
that they got very strange numbers from the traction control system
instants before the accident between Senna and Mansell. He could only
speculate, but he felt it was due to either sudden braking or failure of
the traction control. In light of previous tests and data similar in
previous failures of the TC system,he felt the TC let go.

    Maybe that will shed some light on why mansell suddenly slowed or
senna had brain fade. Make note that i am in no way a Senna or Mansell
Fan. Villenueve, Lauda and Piquet were alwas my favorites and
unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any one else to replace them. Well
maybe Schu and Alesi.......


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Desision on buying 69 Camero
Keywords: Ponycar
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:33:36 GMT


This is for Vintage racing, right?  You'll be running against
other Z-28, Mustangs, and the odd Javelin.  The question is,
does Vintage Racing come up to the posting standards for
rec.autos.sport.  

Rec.autos.sport is for the sport of racing cars.  I guess even
old racing cars qualify.
-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949               ". . . big brown river . . ." Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Winston at Phoenix
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  5 Nov 1992 09:05 EST  

In article <184131@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan 
Jones) writes...

>I agree with you in the first part, but I don't agree that it was Irvan
>doing the swervin.  Marlin was probably thinking it was payback time for
>Daytona. 

Which kind of reminds me - who is Marlin driving for next year?

JD
From: sebruun@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (steve.bruun)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Petty's numbers
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:52:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov12.160950.30282@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jth4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu 
(JON T. HUTCHINSON) writes:
> With all I've been reading about the Petty's family race car numbers was it
> just lucky that Kyle got to race #42 Mellow Yellow because I an old race car
> (matchbox), It was the 42 Mellow Yellow exactly like Kyle's but it was being
> drive by Bobby Hillin. I thought because Richard drove #43 and his uncle (I
> believe) drove #44 that Kyle wanted #42.

You've got your geneology and numerology a bit confused here, Jon.
Lee Petty, Richard's daddy, was one of the stars of NASCAR way back
when, and he always ran #42 on his cars.  (No, I don't know why.)
When Richard came along to drive the second Petty Enterprises car,
he somewhat naturally chose to run #43.  Flash forward twenty years
or so...

Along comes Kyle, the third generation of Petty drivers, who drives
for a couple of different teams before joining forces with Sabates
and company.  (I believe Kyle drove the gaudy 7/11-sponsored #7 for
a while before Alan Kulwicki got that number, for example.)  Felix
and Kyle would like to have run #44 on the Mello Yello car, but the
number belonged to Billy Hagen's team (who subsequently switched to
#94 when Sunoco Ultra became their sponsor; the number refers to the
octane rating of said sponsor), so they went with Lee's old number.
(I don't recall whether that number was already on the Sabates car
before Kyle joined them, but your evidence suggests it was).  Flash
forward a couple more years...

Richard's ready to hang up his helmet and pass the reins of the STP
car to a younger driver.  Everybody expects it will be Kyle who gets
the ride, but he's happy at Sabco and isn't ready to try following
in the King's footsteps just yet.  At the same time, Richard decides
that carrying the legendary #43 is too much weight for whomever his
new shoe turns out to be, and asks NASCAR if it can be retired, at
least temporarily (until, one assumes, Kyle's ready to take over).
Meanwhile, Sabco decides to field a second car with Kenny Wallace up
next year (sponsored by Dirt Devil), and they claim #44, which has
been lying around unused since Hagen gave it up.  Richard politely
asks them if they would mind running #40 instead so the Petty line
can be continue by slapping #44 on the STP car next season, and they
comply with his request and everybody's happy.

More than you ever wanted to know, and at least part of it's true!
Aren't you glad you asked?

Steve Bruun
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Adelaide: Senna-Mansell crash
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 01:27:18 GMT

cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:

>As far as I know, Senna's reason was that Mansell outbraked him.

Even amateur drivers know not to directly follow someone in front
so closely when trying to outbrake each other at the limit. Besides,
if you're playing the late braking game, there is no point following
directly behind the car you're challenging. The exercise only bears
fruit if you are at least beside the car you're challenging.

That whole incident is the silliest of them all for the 1992 season.

Now, why Patresse was consistently so slow in the race as well as in
the qualifying can be due to one or all of four reasons:

1. lack of skill
2. inferior or broken (during race) equipment
3. lack of motivation
4. knowing it's a long hard race, he wants to save chassis and rubber

Me, being a Patresse and Williams fan, must vote for "4".
-- 
Michael MY Hui  ~{~}  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marcink@quantum.carleton.ca (Marcin Kolbuszewski)
Subject: Re: F1 Stuff
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:35:05 GMT

In article <9211111401.AA09114@client47.comlab.ox.ac.uk> anc@prg.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>
>OK to chris i know "moving bits" have been barred but what defines
>moving.  Everything and i mean EVERYTHING moves under certain
>conditions, that includes carbon fibre. Heat, freezing temps and
>other qualities make things react in a different way. We can only
>wait and see.
>
>Let me say that Williams budget for lawyers was more that Andrea Moda's
>was for the whole season.
>
>Alan
I like that comment. A good source for "moving" or rather flexing
can be the aerodynamic force itself. Go fast, flex the wing horizontaly,
slow down, it comes back to its higher downforce shape.

0.02$, IMHO
Marcin
From: cpalmer@dingo.rtp.dg.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Audi Cranks (Was: BMW quits the GTCC)
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:03:01 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro MA

In article <92314.124811KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu> Karl Nordstrom <KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>cpalmer@dingo.rtp.dg.com () says                                               :
>>
>>Of course it was BMW who persisted in protesting the Audi cranks
>>(which had been cleared in 2 or 3 prior protests) and eventually
>>caused Audi to withdraw.
>
>Could you explain what it was about the Audi' cranks the BMW protested?
No.
I don't know what the technical problem was. All I know is that after
the first two protests the only ones who wanted to take it any further
were BMW (Mercedes, for example, said "ok, lets just go race").
And now it seems they are whining because they can't get special
dispensations for the new Mracer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Palmer                            "Ashes to ashes,
Data General Corporation                 dust to dust,
Network Systems Development Division     If Lillee don't get you,
cpalmer@dingo.webo.dg.com                Thommo must!"
From: pmh2962@tamsun.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell/Senna...oops...Bobby Labonte in WC next year (NASCAR)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:02:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Nov10.010232.24967
Organization: Meteorology, TAMU, CS, TX

Bob Kehoe:
>Congrats to Joe Nemechek for squeezing out the championship.
>He managed to come home 6th yesterday, despite Jimmy Spencer's
>efforts!    

...ditto!  Good, smart, lucky, heads-up racing! What the heck was
Jimmy Spencer's problem, anyway? Sheesh! Like Joe had any intention
of whacking Spencer? Spencer tags the 4 car, taking himself and the 4
out, starts a pileup, then gets pissed at the guy following
for bumping him. What a bozo!

>Lastly, is Bobby Labonte destined for #43?
>-cball-
-----------
I think I heard Bill Davis comment (during the Rockingham race?) that
"Boy, the driver of that 44 car sure looks good", when asked who'd be
his driver next year when BD goes to WC.

The TNN guys said there would be an announcement about BL's WC ride
sometime in the next two weeks. My money says he'll be in a Bill Davis
TBird.

I think the worst possible thing that could happen would be for
Senna to get an IndyCar ride next year, no?
-- 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pat Hayes, Meteorology, Texas A&M University...<whoop!>...phayes@tamu.edu 
O&M 1008, TAMU, CS, TX 77843-3150....days:(409)845-1680 fax:(409)845-6331
From: sfrisch@panache.East.Sun.COM (Shelley Frisch - Sun USOPS WSU Supplier Engineering)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Petty Press Conference
Date: 13 Nov 1992 16:31:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: sfrisch@panache.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: panache.east.sun.com


Does anyone have any information on the Press Conference
that was supposed to be held yesterday?

Shelley
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Parmalat
Date: 13 Nov 1992 17:58:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Could someone tell me what type of company Parmalat is or was?
They sponsored Piquet's Brabham for a number of years, and I
was just curious what they did.
-- 
      
Brian Wilson...                 Not from the Beach Boys!

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo   (410)338-4577)
Subject: Re: When you're wrong, you're wrong. (was
Reply-To: lallo@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:07:17 GMT



This getting tedious:



>> You also insist that dynamic friction [between the tire and the road] occurs 
>> when the wheel is rolling freely. (dynamically, I guess!) 

>Thats what I have been told.  

Well you've been told wrong. Look, you are wrong with your definition. And I'm not 
going to spend the time citing everyone and their brother about something that is 
just a definition. O.K? 


>Thats what is in various handbooks.  As for being
>read in texts that refers to the fact that dynamic friction takes much greater
>force to break traction than static.


But here's why I say you are confused. What does it even mean to "break dynamic
friction"?????? Even if you have your definitions backwards then still, how can
both types of friction be "broken" when one (guess which) refers to the case that 
arises when sliding occurs.


Ughh! I'm sorry I can't spend any more time on this. I'm sorry if I insulted you.
I'm sure you have plenty of sources to back you up. I really think we could be in
agreement if it weren't for this stupid definition that you have backwards.

cheers,
Matt
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna/Sauber
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:18:00 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Michael McGarrigle (rsv@gdwb.oz.au) wrote:
: Australian Herald-Sun Newspaper 10/11/92
: 
: Senna's big switch,
: Grand Prix sources have told the Herald-Sun that Senna is to race a Swiss
: made Sauber car.
: While the move may seem like a long shot for triple world champion Senna the
: sources insist that its on.
: etc.. 
: etc..

Bloody hell! If that happens I think they should televise prequalifying
rather than the races for the first half season -- the thought of Senna in 
prequalifying is SOMETHING!

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Drivers' Championships and technology (was: Aus GP Stuff)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:40:22 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <BxLx7L.Buu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:
>jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov11.015014.19547@wes.on.ca> tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>>>danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>>>> So at what point, between where F1 is today and Dave's [automated
>>>> technology] F1, does the World Championship of Drivers become bogus?
>>>> Or has the point already been reached?
>>>
>>[ Points about technology/engineering having been taken to the limit
>>for the entire history of F1 deleted ]
>
>>>Howeverstraying only slightly from the topi cat hand, what we *have* seen
>>>is what might be called excessive domination by a team in the past five or
>>>so years.  Indeed, a Drivers' Championship is a little less so when the
>>>only way to win is to drive a McLaren-Honda in '89 or a Williams-Renault
>>>in '92.  Certainly Mansell is an excellent driver, but how many drivers had
>>>a realistic chance to win even a single race?  Not more than ten, even if
>>>both Williams pilots dropped out.
>>>
>
>>I'll count them (opinion): Mansell, Patrese, Senna, Berger, Schumacher,
>>Brundle. Nobody else unless at least the top 5 here dropped out. I'll
>>bet the Loti couldn't stay with Brundle if victory was on the line, although
>>they sometimes could for 5th place.
>
>	What makes you think this? Is Brundle a better driver when he's
>competing for the lead, or Hakkinen a worse one, at that time? That seems to
>be a pretty debatable statement, especially in light of Brundle's style-
>not balls to the wall, but more controlled. He is a consistent points-paying
>positionn runner, because he cruises and takes care of his equipment. If one
>of teh Loti were chasing him for the lead, I don't think either would change
>his style too much- meaning Brundle would try to protect a lead and Hakk/Herb
>would try to attack. Brundle may indeed beat the Loti in head-to-head competi-
>tion, but saying he definitely would be better in the lead is strange to me.
>
>
>TOBY...

Well, I said it was opinion! My perception is that Brundle has driven with
more verve when he was up in the standings than when he was competing for 5th
or 6th, but that is generally true of all drivers. Basically, I think Brundle
had the better car this year, and with the lead on the line would use his
mechanical advantage to the fullest. I'm not sure he would fight so hard for
5th place, and the competition would then be closer. But I admit it is pure
speculation, although I would love to have seen it proven or disproven in
competition.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:16:26 GMT

In <frank.31.721350221@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au> frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio) writes:

>The race started of course with Mansell in his record 14th pole position but 
>Senna was there in second and he managed to stay with Nige. Now Mansell may 
>well be the World Champion but I have been  extremely impressed at how Senna 
>could manage to stay so competetive in an inferior car. For my money, this 
>makes him the better driver. I couldn't see Mansell doin as well as Senna 
>given the situation was reversed. (my two cents).

Well, ordinarily (as in the first half of the season) I would have agreed
with you, but both Ron Dennis and Frank Williams had said that the course
at Adelaide removed some of the advantage of the Williams. Mansell had been
pulling away from Senna, but much more slowly than I expected. He had 
increased his lead to probably 4 or 5 car lengths, until he ran into the
backmarkers. Senna, being slightly quicker in traffic closed that gap up
quite quickly. However, kudos to Senna for hanging on like that, pity it
destroyed some of the race interest.

>[driver changes]
>Ayrton most likely to stay at Maclaren

Last I heard they still didn't have engines, and I don't think Senna 
wanted to stay without a top notch engine.
-- 
thos cohen                  ,not a typo        |Softway Pty Ltd
"It's not so bad to be a lair but a conniving  |ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 egomaniac is not really that socially accept- |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 able."  SMH, 2 Nov 92, P. Keating vs J. Hewson|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Brain Fade
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:57:00 +0000

..is a pun on Brake fade....

Drivers are always excusing their mistakes, and blaming the car. So
the joke was to call this 'brain fade'.