HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asparrow@cs.umr.edu (Aethelynda d'Eath)
Subject: You know you're in the SCA when...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:56:51 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla
Originator: asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu

...at a bar, you finsh dancing with a lovely lady
and do a deep reverance.  And you've been two-stepping.

(Actually happened to a lord in my shire.  We've been
dancing a lot in prepataion for a public performance.)

Aethelynda
incipient shire of Callanish nuadh
Calontir

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: leeu@nobeltech.se (Leif Euren)
Subject: Re: Sealing wax
Keywords: seal wax
Organization: NobelTech AB
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:19:51 GMT

Lyle FitzWilliam requests information and documentation about the use of
sealing wax on letters and documents:
> Specifically, what method(s) were used for melting the wax for forming
> the seal?  I am familiar with the using a candle made of sealing wax. I
> have also heard of the use of a small pot to hold the wax over a flame.
> It is the latter method that I am seeking information on.

My information isn't much worth. I've mainly studied the manufacturing of
sealing wax.  But I've seen such a pot in a movie once: a really bad
italian Robin Hood movie.  I've forced myself to forget it's name, as the
best part of (for me :-) was when the sheriff of Nottingham sealed a
document by pouring melted sealing was from a small pot with an oil lamp
fitted under it. The contraption was about 4" high, with a wooden handle
straight out to one side. The oil-lamp (or burner) was fitted on hinges
under the pot, so when the melted wax was poured (using the handle), the
lamp kept its upright orientation.

At the time I didn't think it medieval, and just made a mental note of it,
and haven't pursued it since.

I could tell you much more about modern use of sealing wax, how it's
applied (and why), and also give you recipies on how to make it.  But I
don't know if your interested.


Serena comments:
> ... Wax simply doesn't stick to paper or vellum or parchment (etc.);
> it needs a porous surface to "get a grip".

Err...  Modern sealing wax stick quite well to both paper and vellum, as
it's mostly shellac (a resin).  I don't know if the recipy with shellac
was used in period, but if it was, I can't see why it wouldn't stick to
paper and vellum too.

But when using bees wax, you're quite true.  And I think it's almost
impossible to reopen a mold if it's been filled it with shellac based
sealing wax.

> I strongly suspect that many of our misconceptions about sealing
> documents, like so many of our other misconceptions about how things
> were done in the medieval and Renaissance periods, result from the
> practices and shoddy (if enthusiastic) "research" of the Victorian age.

Quite possibly true.  Well, we'll have to correct that, won't we?
So here I go, head first into research...

	your humble servant
	Peder Klingrode


  Herr Peder Klingrode                    | Leif Euren    Stockholm, Sweden
  Holmgard, Nordmark, Drachenwald, East   | leeu@nobeltech.se
From: UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU (UCCXDEM)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Ansteorran Crown Tourney
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:14:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: MVS.19921116081414UCCXDEM
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center

Greetings to all nobles and gentles,
The Ansteorran Crown Tourney was this past weekend. All bouts were
fought with great skill and honor on the part of all entrants. The
final round was between Sir Sutan Bloodaxe and Sir Burke Kyrell
McDonald. Sir Sutan was the victor in a long and exhauting bout.
For those people tracking lefties, Sir Burke is a lefty.
                                                Marke
From: ccmartin@muccmail.missouri.EDU ("D. Brian Martin")
Subject: UnSubscibe
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:05:01 GMT

Unsubscribe me please   

Signoff sca-l

signoff sca

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: ye is the
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:14:11 GMT

Charles the clerk doth write:

>There were two distinct Middle English words, "ye" and "the." "Ye" is
>the second person plural nominative pronoun, whereas "the" is the
>definite article.  "The" was written either with a thorn, an edh, or a
>t-h sequence.  

The second person *singular accusative* pronoun "thee" was also frequently
spelled "the", just to add to the confusion.  Nevertheless "thee" and "ye"
were quite distinct words (in Old English, the plural "ye" was generally
spelled with a "g", while "thee" had a thorn or an edh....)

		--Simon
From: jabrown@vaxsar.vassar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for a welcome...
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:04:03 +1000
Organization: Vassar College

	Sorry to bother all of you out there on the net, but as a new member
(Well, I still need to send in the Paperwork...) I had a couple quick
questions. If they could be answered in E-mail that would be great. Where can
one get a hold of the SCA Handbook? I currently reside in Frosted Hills of the
East Kingdom (Vassar College, Poughkeepsie, NY) and am becoming very interested
in the SCA. Any help/tips/ideas sent to me would be much appriciated...
	Jamin Brown
P.S. Hello to Dof, Thora, and Cormac...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: hot drinks
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:15:01 GMT


In article <1edu83INN6an@agate.berkeley.edu>, cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin) writes:

> In article <Bxx0J4.FvJ@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun \
MacAnndra) writes:
> 
> [Where he comes from, apple juice and cider are different substances.]
> 
> OK, I live and learn.  In California supermarkets they are exactly
> the same stuff--filtered, pasteurized, and the only differences are the
> word on the label and the color of the label.

Alas, my lady - you are missing out on one of the finest beverages nature
has provided mankind; right up there with mead and beer.  I grew up near
a cider mill in New York state (the SCA name for the area escapes me).  In
the autumn, my parents would take their rather large brood to the mill
on Sunday afternoons to get doughnuts and fresh-pressed cider.  (Free
samples for 6 kids was not something to pass up!)  Back in the old, old
days, you entered the building by walking past the pit where they
dumped the pulp after pressing out the cider . . . which could be a
pretty heady experience!

True apple cider is NEVER filtered, pasteurized, or even heated (until
you're ready to mull it, of course).  You just grind up the apples,
let it rest for a few minutes (this allows the pulp to oxidize, which
is where cider gets that beautiful color), then press it with a ton
or two of pressure (which can easily be achieved in a small, hand-driven
fruit press).  Local cider producers in the East Kingdom vie to produce
the best-tasting cider by varying the amounts of different types of
apples used in the mix.

In what may be a local phenomenon, there are also a number of stores that
stock "natural" varieties of apple juice.  These may be filtered and
pasteurized, but aren't laced with preservatives, in contrast with the
more common mainstream brands that are.  Corun may wish to try hunting
in the "health-food" section of large grocers, or perhaps try a health-
food store, if he's interested in obtaining a purer form of apple juice.

As for fermented cider . . . what might you mean, Corun, by saying "if
left alone in the refrigerator too long, [it] will turn bad"?  That's
exactly what the English bottle and ship over here.  There are also a
few domestic producers;  I'd have to stop at the liquor store and
check on who they might be, if you're interested.  There is a direct
parallel between making wine and making fermented cider;  you crush
the fruit and press out the juice, then let the juice ferment.  Just
as with wine, the fermented liquid will clarify as the solids settle
out.

	Ah, what a wonderful world it is that has fruit in it . . .

		Have a tasty beverage, hot OR cold!

				- - Steve
				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: MKNETTEL@kentvm.kent.EDU ("Mary Knettel ", Genevieve)
Subject: Brand the Black - new address?
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:47:14 GMT

Sorry to post this globally, but does anyone have the new e-mail
address for Brand the Black?  I need to send him a message, but
only have an old address that was due to expire in September.

Or, if Brand is reading -- please e-mail me at:

    mknettel @ kentvm.kent.edu

Thanks.

-Genevieve du Vent Argent, MidRealm Clerk of Precedence
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Subject: the FAQ
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:14:02 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

I'm not entirely sure what's happened with the server I use to post 
the FAQ, but there seems to be a problem this month.  I believe it 
appeared on rec.org.sca, but after a week I haven't seen it in the 
Digest, so I'm going to repost manually.  If you've already seen it 
this month, my apologies.

Techie talk -- skip the rest of the message if you're not interested.  
I do know that part of the problem with the server autoposting is a 
new (due to upgrades) inability to post to aliased newsgroups, which 
includes alt.sca at the site at which the server runs.  Its not my 
server, so I can't make changes to it.  The question arises, how 
necessary is it for the FAQ to be posted to alt.sca?  Email your 
opinion, please.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:04:39 GMT
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix


Alexander the Great was said to have invented a primitive wristwatch.  It
consisted of a band of cloth which was treated with special dyes so as to
fade and change color indicating the passageof time.  This came to known as...

      Alexander's Rag-Time Band.

Sorry, I'm a herald. I couldn't help myself.

Berwyn Aethelbryght

-- 
Berwyn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: badger@wixer.cactus.org (Badger)
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 02:29:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.180439.3293@egf-bbs.uucp> aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy) writes:
>
>Alexander the Great was said to have invented a primitive wristwatch.  It
>consisted of a band of cloth which was treated with special dyes so as to
>fade and change color indicating the passageof time.  This came to known as...
>
>      Alexander's Rag-Time Band.
>
>Sorry, I'm a herald. I couldn't help myself.
>
>Berwyn Aethelbryght
>
>-- 
>Berwyn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
>                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy


<snigger...>... <giggle...> <titter>...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Heh... I *LIKE* that one! :)


-- 
| Kenneth W. Scott        | Lord Gunter von Wissenberg  | Azure, a badger's   |
| Badger                  | Collegium Turris Animarum   | head erased Or      | 
| (Meles meles)           | In the Barony of Bryn Gwlad | masked sable, within|
| badger@wixer.cactus.org | In the Kingdom of Ansteorra | an orle Or. (I hope)|
From: mdayton@aragorn.eecs.wsu.edu (Marc Dayton - CHEM)
Subject: Looking For Brenna
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 04:43:04 GMT

Keywords: 
I met a young lady at an event in Atenveldt, and would like to contact her again.
Her name at the time was Brenna and she goes to school in Utah, but soon to be in California (Berkely). if anyone knows of her or if you read this write me...

Hearn-

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (David Eddy)
Subject: Re: Lefties and other monsters
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 07:31:20 GMT

justin@inmet.camb.inmet.COM (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:

>Re: An Abundance of Lefties

>lefties have something of an advantage of experience. A left-handed
>fighter typically spends most of his time fighting right-handed people,
>and is therefore used to it. Most righties don't have nearly as much
>experience fighting left-handers, though. Statistically, it makes sense
>that this would give the lefties a small edge...

>(Of course, this is all from a non-fighter's perspective, so I could
>be completely off-base...)

I'm a leftie fighter, and I think you're right.   (Oops, a pun! :-)

More seriously there are several sides to this.  Most of us
unconsciously leave gaps in our defence where it is plain
impossible to be hit; the trouble is that a left-hander tends to
hit in a different way to a right-hander and some of the gaps
that are normally closed become open to the left-hander.  Now as
others have observed, left-handers are used to fighting a
right-hander where the opposite is not generally true so they
will tend to take advantage of these gaps (or rather, the
right-hander will tend not to close these gaps...
action-reaction, around we go again...).

You can tell if you look at a fighter's static stance whether
that fighter's used to fighting on the opposite hand.  Against an
opposite-hand opponent a good fighter will push his/er back foot
around a little, becoming more side-on to their opponent.

Apparently, two left-handers fighting can be quite amusing to
watch because all of a sudden they're being forced to do what
comes naturally to right-handers due to _their_ more extensive
experience in that mode.


However, the above only applies up to a certain level of
fighting.  In the *really* good (i.e. far better than most
knights), there is no fixed stance or anything else for that
matter; there is simply What Is Appropriate.  It's a bit like
Taoism or Zen, really -- notions of the void and intention/no
intention are involved.

For people like this, we have to ask whether there's some factor
involved other than simply experience.  There may be some
indications in the left-brain/right-brain theories being bandied
about (i.e. left-handers will tend to be right-brain dominated;
vice versa for right-handers) but I'm not sure if I believe
them.  It _is_ true that there's a statistically disproportionate
number of left-handers at the top of most sports.  Why?  Is this
the reason?


Anyone else care to have a go?

--
Ola'fr Thordarson    Speaking from Arx Draconis in Lochac
(David Eddy - dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au - standard disclaimers apply)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Lindorm Eriksson)
Subject: Trying to contact Konall and Wulfgar.
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:23:00 GMT

I try to contact Konall Rogersson at icsu0139@cs.montana.edu and Wulfgar
Silberbar at MPFOSTER@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu, but mail fails for both of them.
Any help would be apreciated.

        Lindorm Eriksson <christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se>
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Perceptions of the SCA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:31:38

 JM> 2) "...that actually resembles..."  Do you believe 
 JM> that the SCA's formal or
 JM> informal structures actually resemble anything that 
 JM> existed in the Middle
 JM> Ages? 
 Actually, in reading about "Germany" in the Renaissance, I found a 
 parallel to some of the attitudes I have seen within the SCA.  
 Generally speaking (ignoring exceptions), there was an intellectual 
 middle class and the noble class were borish ignoramuses.  A good 
 deal of resentment was felt by the studious for the noble.  I see 
 this in the great divide between the studiers of the Arts & Sciences 
 and those noble peers who rode in on their physical prowess and whose 
 regard for medieval study is neglible.  (The pure "stick-jock", if 
 you will)
     Yes, I am aware that there are individuals who span this gap, 
 being noble peer and/or "stick-jock" and yet actively enthusiastic in 
 study and re-creation.  Is the basic perception flawed?  I think not.
        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Date: 16 Nov 92 05:37:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.722027316.AA00000

Of course early enough in period, monastic time was nothing like it was 
after mechanical clockwork was invented.

The days were divided into the same number of hours no matter how long 
daylight actually existed, so that "hours" were a good deal shorter in the 
winter, during daylight! The important thing to the Brothers was to get 
through all their monastic duties, not to measure the passage of time.

Of course before modern jobs and modern entertainment, there was a lot less 
to *do* in the daytime in winter, what with no plowing, etc., and a lot of 
things unavailable until Spring. And if food was short, might as well try to 
sleep through all those long, dark hours. Save your energy!  :-)

I sometimes wonder if "sleep disorders" existed before we had mechanical 
clocks...

Moreach

(Replies *must* go to: trifid@agora.rain.com
while I can receive mail at the fidonet address,
I cannot reply from there unless you are local.)
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authenticity vs. fantasy (long)
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:06:43 GMT
Distribution: world, na
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

In article <1744@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>Quick!  Name a fantasy novel where the protagonist is a musician.  What
>instrument does s/he play?  Harps are the only instrument which runs the
>entire gauntlet from excruciatingly-correct-authenticity-mavin to fantasy-elf-
>wanna-be.  Recorders and dulcimers are what-is-its and guitars don't 'feel'
>medieval.  And you don't have to gather 'round to hear bagpipes! ;-) ;-)

  "Knights of Ghosts and Shadows" by Mercedes Lackey.  The protagonist plays
  a flute.  ;)  [Now, I grant you that the book is set in present day, but
  you didn't specify *when* the book should be set. ;) ]

  Now, a quick question regarding pipes:  How period are they?  I play, and
  am 1/2 Celt, so I've done a fair bit of research on Scots history, but I've
  yet to see anything specific about pipes older than the late seventeenth
  century.  I *know* they existed in period, but does anyone have any specifics
  as to form?  (ie: two drones, A tuning.  Were the modern three-droned types
  known at the time? Etc)

  Thanks.
  -Iain Odlin
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 ------ If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly. ------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: Re: Lute tunings
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:20:20 GMT

Michael du Flambard says:

> I only know one tuning for 6-string lutes -- running from top (lowest) 
>string to bottom (highest):
>                            G, C, F, A, D, G

Robinson (_School of Musick_, 1603, English) says to tune a lute by tuning 
the top string as high as it will go and then gives relative pitches from 
there.  Many people seem to use G for this top note; given that I don't 
know the typical guage of period strings or the stress properties of catgut, 
I'm inclined to just take the word of others here.

I believe the rest of this progression is correct, but my Robinson is at 
home and I'm not.

Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: dancing
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:29:21 GMT


Genevieve du Vent Argent writes:

>It's sometimes hard to do, but encouraging people to switch partners
>occasionally (especially if you need to pair up experienced with
>non-experienced dancers) can help.

I'm probably not the one to say this, but I believe Arbeau encourages
partner switching, as dancing with the same partner all night is
considered poor manners.

Tio d'Abaco
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Patent of Arms / Order of Precedence question
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:22:32

 DS> Interesting point.  Question: where does someone 
 DS> with a Duchy/County/Vicounty
 DS> rank WITHOUT a patent of arms rank on a Order of 
 DS> Precedence?  With the others
 Right up there with everyone else.  If we ever had a march of 
 precedence, then they'd march right where they belonged by date and 
 highest rank.
    I think what we're seeing is not a question of precedence, but a 
 question of perception.  A Royal Peer without one of the other peerages 
 is usually not given that extra edge of respect.  Not that a royal 
 peer doesn't get respect, after all they served at a hard job for 6 
 months, it's just that extra bit.  And, that extra bit of respect 
 won't be added by giving someone a naked Patent.  Only elevation to one 
 of the peerages will add that edge.  Mind you, all this is relative.  
 Each individual gets all the respect that they are due, regardless of 
 where they stand in order of precedence, regardless of which danglies 
 hang around their neck.
    Without naming names, because this is purely my private reaction, I 
 can think of a few royal peers who seem to have gotten peerages "easy" 
 because the SCA (in general) feels uncomfortable with royal peers who 
 are not also a member of some specific peerage.  These people get no 
 more of my respect than their 6 or 12 months of service accord them.
     Oh, yes, and all of this is Ansteorra-specific.
          Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
             Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: group activity
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:09:00 GMT

I think the idea that events are the purpose of a groups activity is
outright wrong.

Events are one subset of the possible collective endevours of a group;
other collective endevours include things like performing arts, team
approaches to military skills, and collective heraldic display.

So long as there are sufficent collective endevours going on (it takes
a very small group indeed for one to be sufficent), I don't think it
matters what the kinds are.  It is not hard for me to imagine a small
canton that would rather do drama or singing and go to other events
and blow people's socks off than hold their own events.

It is hard to argue that they wouldn't be adding something to the Society
around them; ditto a group that gets into bringing *heaps* of showy banners.

A *requirement* for events does not serve the purpose of avoiding
insularity; other than mandating the presence of representatives of
a group at a royal court held somewhere else, I can't think of what would.

Graydon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in the SCA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:57:40

 G> Oh, no, not that!!  A kingdom arts award for child care!  Society-wide
 How about the next worst thing?  A specific award to give to kids... 
 Welcome to Ansteorra, where this Duchess got the idea we had to have 
 things for kids to do, and officers to promulgate having things for the 
 kids to do, and thus the Ministery of Children was birthed.......
     <sigh>  Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
                Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca