From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: jews as a race
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:43:33 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.think.com

In article <1483500318@igc.apc.org>, Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes:
|> 
|> Maxime Rodinson, a internationally known orientalist, French citizen
|> and author of numerous publications, was once asked whether he
|> was a Jew.
|> 
|> He answered: Yes, I am a Jew according to the Nazi definition of Jews,
|> which is quite similar to that used by the Israeli government.
|> 
|> This unusual answer is food for thought.
|> 
|> Of course the Nazi persecution of Jews was not based on the Jews
|> being a race, although the Nazis maintained they were. But their
|> policies are labelled racist.

I beg to differ.  Nazis perceived their policies as being racial
ones.  They believed in the conecpt of a "jewish race" and cited
examples of what they perceived to be racial characteristics.
Their policies are labelled as racist for this reason, among others.

|> It is claimed that Judaism is not racist, because non-Jews (Gentiles)
|> can convert to Judaism. This is only partly true, because the Jewish
|> rabbinical authorities are not very fond of converting Gentiles to Jews.
|> In fact conversion is a quite complicated process which requires
|> the person who converts to study the Jewish religion and accept
|> wholeheartedly its principles. A person born to a Jewish mother
|> however is not required to prove his faith. He may eat pork, and
|> violate all 613 Halakha precepts. But the rabbis consider him a Jew
|> nevertheless because of biological descent.

It depends upon which rabbinical authorities one consults.
Reform or conservative authorities treat the matter in a different
way than orthodox ones.

The simple fact remains that people can convert to Judaism, and that
there are a variety of Jews from different races.  I am not a strong
supporter of Judaism, but I feel that all religious sects are within
their rights to set criteria for conversion.

|> In fact therefore is is not inaccurate to call Judaism and its
|> political modern form Zionism, as racist phenomena, at least
|> in the current practices.

That is not correct as I pointed out above.

|> ReformJudaism has gone away from this racist practice to some extent.
|> 
|> My parents practiced Judaism. I married a non-Jewish woman. WWhen I
|> read pronouncements by Zionist leaders that assimilation is a
|> calamity compared to the Holocaust, I can vomit. Because such
|> statements are offensive to human love, which does not know
|> religious or ethnical borders.

Actually, I have heard that statement being made by religious leaders
as well.  As to your point, holding the views you do, I can commend
your steadiness in sticking to your principles.  I think however, that
you will find that human love (knowing no bounds) does not integrate
well with any religion.  By this I mean that almost all religions do not
look kindly upon assimilation.

	Shai

|> Thanks,
|> Elias
|> 

-- 
Shai Guday              | Knowing martial arts allows one to remain calm when
OS Software Engineer    | confronted by idiots, secure in the knowledge that
Thinking Machines Corp. | you could dismember them easily, while you calmly
Cambridge, MA           | proceed to dismember them easily.