From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:11:36 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <3612@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
>mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>
>>>  The Osprey and the Bradley fighting vehicle are not examples of high tech
>>>wizardry, they are both failures, technically and economically (except for t
>>>people employed to build them).
>
>>Even if we assume this is true... you are bitching because something
>>less than 100% of military research is successful.  Of course there
>>are failures.  We can't all be perfect like you.
>
>  You missed the point by close to a continent.  It's not the R&D that was
>a failure, it was the procurement system within the Pentagon that allowed
>those systems to be put into production as the R&D on those systems indicated
>that they were not worthwhile.

I seriously doubt this.  I suspect that the reason many military
boondogles are carried through to production is due to Congressional
pressure.  The most recnt example I know of is the SeaWolf sub.
Both Bush AND the Pentagon want to scrap this project as it costs
over a Billion for the first one (!).  But the democrap congressman
from New London Conneticut is lobbying for it's continuation!
Samo-samo for all the military bases being closed.

Note carefully... the demos have always fired shots at Reagan and
the GOP for boosting the military budget too far (their words).
This situation illustrates how 2-faced they really are.

>>A great deal of the R&D IS worthwhile...much more than is not.
>
>  ALL R&D is worthwhile, so long as the results are used properly.
>
>  When the research tells you that a system, be it a vehicle, aircraft or
>weapon says that it is impractical, unweildy or overy complex for field
>use, the only rational decision is to drop the program.

So tell congress.  It's their meddling that wastes this money.

I have had the benfit of listening to a retired official who
worked in govt. procurement.  His job was to cancel/approve
military contracts when reviewed.

He has tons of horror stories about governmental waste and the
great majority of the time, it's Congress covering their own
butt.

One of the most blatent involved a contract to produce poles for
tents.  The contract was awarded to a S. Carolina company well-equipped
to do this work.  They developed the manufacturing line based on
the mil specs and tooled to produce the metal poles.

Very near the production date, a congressman from New England wanted
the contract canceled and the work to go to a company in his
district (big surprise).  The N.E. company wanted to make these poles
out of WOOD and of the same thickness!!  This was absurd as wood would
not have have stood up under the wiegt of the tents without being
much thicker.

To make this story short (much shorter than the political crap
that flew around about this work), BOTH companies were contracted to
make the poles, and the WOODEN poles were then thrown away!  This
is a true story, friend.

So don't come down too hard on the Pentagon for this kind of crap.
Open your eyes.

>
>>But the fact that the evil empire is dead is an excellent side-effect.
>>(I hope the term "evil empire" doesn't piss you off too much).
>>And we destroyed that monster without firing a shot... but by simply
>>turning up the military R&D.
>
>  I think the next few years is going to prove that we were a tad better
>off with the Soviets around.

I'm not surprised to hear you say that.

>Their collapse couldn't have come at a worse
>time, it robbed us of being able to retool the milatary industrial complex
>without high unemployment or great expense.

Why do we need to retool the military complex?  The world is still
in great risk.  There are 22 third-world countries on the road to
having nuclear weapons.  11 already have them, another 2 should
get them within 2 years.

There is no peace-dividend.  Total fantasy dreamed up by our
wonderful legislators to give us all warm & fuzzies.

>
>>The fact that militarily, no other country is respected as we are is
>>another positive side-effect.
>
>  Glad you put that military disclaimer in there... ;-)
>
>  The sad fact is that very few countries have a good opinion of us,
>we're tolerated more than respected.  The assinine goings on in Washington
>only strengthen that opinion.

While such things are hard to document, and I don't want to get
into a pissing contest, I don't believe this to be the case.
Most countries, I think, have a better opnion of this country
...well...let's just say they respect America more than YOU seem
to, Jack.

>  You gain respect leading by example, not by forcing people to behave in
>ways that you're not capable of yourself.

What crap are you talking about?

>
>>The weapons that cow-towed Iraq so easily and quickly are the result
>>of that R&D.  The deterrent we pose to terrorist nations is an
>>excellent side-effect.
>
>  Last I heard Saddam was still boppin' around, that tells me the job wasn't
>finished.  Sure, we gave Kuwait back to the rightful owners, but we haven't
>removed the threat for the future.

The goal was never to depose Hussein.  Bush could muster support only for
liberating Kuwait.  Honestly, Jack... it kills me how liberals
such as yourself who bitched about Bush doing ANYTHING MILITARILY
back then (remember the...oooh...lets try sanctions longer...lets
negotiate), now bitch because he didn't "finish the job".  It's
largely because of people like you who wouldn't let him!

Bad memory, eh?  What a twit.

>
>  And, if there is a next time, there just might be a few ex-Soviet nukes
>that surprizingly come into play courtesy of that Russian collapse that you're
>so proud of...

That still doesn't change the fact that the most opressive society
in history (short of the Nazis) is dead.  The world is much better
off because of it.  I look to this country to help solve those kind
of problems, even go to war when necessary to do it.

We are the only superpower left in this world, and I hope we
continue making the "right" decisions.  There is much changing
in the world, and we must pay attention to all of it.  This is no
time to dismantle the military.


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