From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.privacy
Subject: Re: capturing caller id data
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:29:45 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

sao@athena.mit.edu (Andy Oakland) writes:

}(Man, and I was swearing I'd stay out of it this time around!)

Me too.  Me too.

}In article <f0KJ02SJc1ms00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
}>All I've ever tried to do on this subject is to tell you that what I want
}>is different from what you want.  I've never expected you to "declare me
}>right", I've only asked you to acknowledge that I want something different
}>than what you want, and that CID might just possibly fill my needs better
}>than answering machines and/or secret codes.  If you have had the attitude 
}>that one of us must be "right", then it's no wonder that we just keep going 
}>round and round.

}I think the problem is that many hear you saying, "I want caller-id because
}it does this, and that, and this other thing for me."  (correct me if I'm
}mis-paraphrasing here.)

}But then someone else says, "Well, <something else> does this, that, and
}the other thing, and without any of the bad side effects of caller-id,"
}to which he gets a response something like, "But I don't want <something
}else> because it doesn't do what I want, and caller-id DOES do what
}I want."

}The somebody else can't understand why you still want caller-id, when the
}<something else> he suggested does everything you say you want caller-id
}for.  And you keep insisting that his <something else> doesn't do
}everything you want caller-id for.

Close.  The normal course of CID discussions is more like this:

A> I want CID because I want to see the phone number of incoming calls.

B> Oh, you want to screen your calls?  You know, an answering does that
   a lot better.

A> Well, screening calls is just one reason I want CID.  And besides, an
   answering machine doesn't help if the caller hangs up.

B> Oh, so you want to be able to avoid telemarketer calls and just answer
   calls from people you know.  You should get one of those secret code
   devices.

A> Well, I don't really want to have to hassle with giving the code out
   to all my friends and family and making them remember it as well as
   my phone number.  I'd really be happier if I could just see the phone
   number of the incoming call.

B> But that won't help you if your friend calls you from a pay phone.

A> Sure, but my friends rarely use pay phones.

B> But you know CID doesn't tell you your friends' names, it only shows
   the incoming phone number.  And what about emergency calls?  They
   won't be coming from your friend's house, so you'll miss them.

A> I'm willing to take that chance.  Emergency calls should go to 911
   anyway.

B> You're saying that if your wife misses her plane and needs to call
   you from the airport she should call 911?

A> Of course not.  But in such a situation, she can't count on my even
   being home.  So it's no different than my having CID and not answering
   the phone.

B> But wouldn't it be easier if you had one of those secret code things?
   Then your wife could always get through.

A> No, I really don't want to hassle with those code things.

B> Well maybe you should just tell us how you'd use CID if you had it.

A> Calls from numbers I recognize and want to answer I answer.  Others
   get the answering machine.

B> Doesn't sound like a significant difference from just using an answering
   machine.  I don't see that CID is buying you that much.  You know, it
   doesn't show you WHO is calling, it just shows the NUMBER that is
   calling.

A> I know that.  But the number usually gives me enough information to
   decide if I want to take the chance and answer it or not.

C> But if all you want to do is avoid telemarketer calls, you won't be
   able to recognize their numbers anyway.  Seems like an answering machine
   does what you want.

A> I don't just want to avoid telemarketer calls.  Sometimes when my
   mom calls I'd rather not talk to her.

C> But what if your mom is calling from a friend's house?  Then CID still
   doesn't tell you that it's her, and you'll still end up talking to her
   when you don't want to.  So where's the advantage of CID?  I think all
   you need is the answering machine.

A> I understand that nothing is perfect, but CID gives me one more tool
   to use so that I can have the kind of control over my own phone that
   I want.

D> Well, if it's control over your own phone you want, then what you should
   do is get two phone lines.  Have one unlisted number that you give out
   only to your family and friends.  The other gets an answering machine
   that will catch most of the telemarketer calls.

A> But I really don't want the expense and hassle of a second phone line.
   Besides, my number is alread widely known.  I don't want to have to
   make all my friends learn a new number.  Being able to see the number
   of incoming calls will really suit my needs pretty well.

E> But since most houses have more than one phone, you'll probably have
   to get up and go look at the CID box anyway.  Wouldn't it be easier
   to just answer the phone where you are?

A> I spend most of my time next to one phone.  It's not a problem for me.

B> Yeah, but the world doesn't revolve around you, you know.  CLID just
   has too many drawbacks and no significant advantage.  It's a bad idea.

A> Nothing is perfect.  I say let us have as many tools and options
   and just let each person decide what's best for himself.

B> But CLID just has too many drawbacks.  It doesn't tell you WHO is calling,
   it only tells you the NUMBER that is calling.  When someone you know
   calls from a different phone, you won't know who it is.  What we really
   need is PERSON ID, not call ID.

A> But CID is available now, and for me and some other people, it goes
   another step toward filling our needs.

B> But the world doesn't revolve around you, you know.  We've heard what
   YOU want, we all know what YOU want.  I'm trying to find something
   that everyone will want.

A> If something better comes along, we can use it.  But in the meantime,
   there are some people who want CID.  I say give them the option.

F> I don't wanna give up anymore of my privacy!  You don't have the right
   to get my phone number!!

A> So block your number.

B> But if the number is blocked, then CLID hasn't bought you anything.
   I just don't see the advantage.  The answering machine helps you
   avoid telemarketer calls, and the secret code device gives you the
   control over who can get through.

A> But I'd really just like to see the number of the incoming call.

B> We KNOW what you want.  I'm just trying to inform all the OTHER people
   who might have the mistaken impression that CLID will tell them WHO is
   calling.  All it tells you is the NUMBER that is calling.  What we
   really need is PERSON ID, not caller line ID.

A> I know, but for now seeing the number of the incoming call will help.

B> HOW will it help?  If you want to avoid telemarketer calls, an answering
   machine does the job much better.

   .
   .
   .

And on and on it goes.

--James Preston

From: borowski@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Don T. Borowski)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:31:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Thermostats
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.