HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:10:04 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Janet Teuber <C0229%UNIVSCVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN

On Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:35:37 EDT Carol Goodson said:
>
>I heard Dan Rather use "attrited" as a verb one night during the Gulf War
>thing... I am fascinated by the transformation of nouns into verbs which
>seems to be increasing these days.

And from the sports world there's "verticalize" - to jump straight up in the
                                                  air, as in "He can really
                                                  verticalize."  Describes
                                                  what the football player
                                                  did to catch the overthrown
                                                  pass.
And another football verb, "to defense".  Nobody in football defends anymore.
They always defense.

Neal, it seems to me that baseball announcers are not nearly as bad as football
announcers about creating their own vocabulary to describe things for which we
already have perfectly good words.  This act of excessive vocabularizing I
liken to tearing up a perfectly good towel to make a rag you can use in place
of a towel. :#  <-- new symbol for what some sportscasters should do.

Janet
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:28:03 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Fredric <FDOLEZAL%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change
              15 Apr 1992 17:14:48 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

On Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:14:48 CDT Natalie Maynor said:
>> p.s. Natalie, I believe I also understood you, I just thought you were
>
>I meant to add The Ronin to the list of the wise at least 24 hours ago.
>I've liked everything you've said on the topic!
            ^^^^^^^^^^
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
LINGUISTS all over the world are embarrassed: GHETTO SLANG???????
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:58:12 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Anne Diffily <ADBAM%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Fading away....
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Hello, friends.

Due to the unbelievable volume, I haven't been reading this list
(except for selected subject headings every few days) for the past
few weeks, and probably won't be able to do any better than that.

If there are any postings about tee-shirts, clambake, or other
subjects dear to my heart, perhaps one of my Words-L buddies could
alert me to the thread so I can tune in.

Thanks beaucoup, and have fun!

     - Anne, one of the original Words-Lers from Yale/Al Essa days
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:16:00 PDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Clint Darling <DARLING%CATLIN.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: "Will word for food"

        My, my! Not only am I impressed, so also will my class be, persuaded
as they are that I *can't* do anything useful on Words-L. Thank you, John
Williams, for your prompt response. (And -where- did you find it?  If it's
not too much trouble....)

Clint
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 00:45:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "The harder I work, the behinder I get"
 <TRAVEN%VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: in memory of.....
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

>Anyway, here is what I want everyone to see:

>"This donation is in memory of all the dear ones the words-lers have lost
>recently, and in honor of the close-knit though far-flung [group] words-l
>really is."

>"Congregation?  Neighborhood?  Village Square/cafe?  When you need them,
>these people are 'there'.  Words-l is truly special."

>I couldn't agree more.  You are all VERY special to me, and to Gail.

>special hugs to all......

>dan

        Truer words were never spake.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven@pittvms			Bitnet		412-624-0097 (office)
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu  	Internet	412-624-0110 (fax)
			"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America
			 had better learn baseball."	-- Jacques Barzun

PS.  The check will be in the mail after Mary Lynn returns from Colorado (she
has the chackbook).
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:28:37 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change

> but the point is about whether something called 'culture' can effect change;
> if not, then the argument in previous posts are nullified; if so, you cannot
> claim innocence and INTENTION.  Either the'culture' intended to change in a

Why not?   Some language changes are intentional; most are not.  I don't
see how the either-or can apply to changes as a whole.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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X-Prolog:     University Computing Services/Student Data Systems
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:47:23 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Don Moore (813) 974-4078 S/C 574-4078"
 <DBFABAK%CFRVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Thanks

Just wanted to end the day with some thanks:

To Dan, and others for posting the stories about childhood problems - my
most sincerest best wishes for your continued understanding and healing.

To Czarina, for her leadership in pre-clambake - I can only enjoy from the
characters on this screen.

To Bernard, for such virtuosity with the bow-and-arrow.

Good night all, I'm beat, been grinding up trees in the Pasco Jungles
for last few hours - hot, dirty, noisy job.

                            Peace,
                                  Don
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 10:09:48 EDT
From: <AMPHYS01@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: RE: Antiquity Roll Call

Gosh, now I really feel like an antique -- or maybe an cheap copy of an
antique, since I've never re-subbed and read Words-L over usenet now --
I can't remember or document exactly, but I was on at the time
of the great picnic in Atlanta in Cousin Lenny's backyard -- at the time
of the great moderation battle on Folklore -- at the time of the one and
only Galmin Stroud -- I may be getting Words and Folklore mixed up,
but it was too long ago to remember.

Sharon
AMPHYS01@YSUB
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:58:38 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Fredric <FDOLEZAL%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change
              15 Apr 1992 20:02:33 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

On Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:02:33 CDT Natalie Maynor said:
>> >I meant to add The Ronin to the list of the wise at least 24 hours ago.
>> >I've liked everything you've said on the topic!
>>             ^^^^^^^^^^
>> >   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>> LINGUISTS all over the world are embarrassed: GHETTO SLANG???????
name calling diminishes your argument... for you see, since you have been
pontificating as a LINGUIST, perhaps you will do the honor and be consistent:
that is, you make all the tried and true arguments from mainstream  american
linguistics (which we are supposed to honor, evidently) but when you get
caught using a nonlinguistics term such as SLANG, well, it is nitpicking.
so tell me, what is slang?
>
>Uh oh, gang.  This is the first time in a while we've had a big-time
>picker of nits aboard.  (Note:  That is not a complaint or criticism!
>I'm happy to see our new participant.  We'll just have to word things
>very carefully and literally in order to avoid having to go back and
>explain.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:38:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         STU DENENBERG <DENENBSA%SNYPLAVA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Bomber Crews and PhDssdnd

I signed on to 494 messages this evening, so I didn't get achance to read
all of them.

But I got the gist of a few and would like to reply to them. (It was
interesting in that I had so many messages taht I had to delete most to be
even able to send this message)--- the point being I couldn't reply as I
was reading...)

Whoever said that it was pretentious to use a title like "Dr" or "PhD" on a
List (esp. this one) was absolutely right.  I have many rationalizations
for using "Dr." (some of which I've shared privately) but the main reason
is I'm too lazy to change my .signature file.  I'll try to get around to it
.

The other thing is Tushar's point about how to make the list a bit
friendlier with less "in" jokes and not becoming like a British Public
school.  I remember being in an "encounter" group way back in the early 70s
and there was an already established IN subgroup with thier private language
and jokes and it made the rest of us feel like shit.

When we pointed this out to them, someone raised the metaphor or the WWII
bomber crew ---buddies who stick together and exclude "outsiders".  Not a
very good model for this or any lList.

I know we all revel in being clever and smartass, but please, not to the
deterioration of the social fabric of the list.


        Stu

Mr. Stewart A. Denenberg
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:02:22 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN

> >Whew!  Chris hasn't noticed yet how I manage to twist or evade when I can't
> >come up with a rebuttal to one of his points. :-)
>
> Yes, I have.   You resort to the "Turning Machine" tactic. :-) (Read lots of
> giggles in this!)

I don't know what the Turning Machine is, but I gathered from what you
said earlier that my first questions reminded you of it -- when I first
started playing devil's advocate.  Those weren't evasions or twistings.
Those were baits. :-)
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:11:15 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Lenny is Back
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> I am back.
>
> What's happening?

Just in time for my birthday!!

Karen
List Angel and Older Woman
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:02:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CompuServe Flat Rate - New

Detecteth Dective Lobstrosities Unite

> I got that offer in the mail.  The only problem with the whole thing was that
> you were limited to 60 e-mail messages per month.  Not quite up to Words-L
> volume.

     How could one possibly get by posting only 60 messages per month?
That would only be 2 per day.  Or are they counting incoming as well?
Nah, no one would cut you off after a single morning of WORDS-L.

The Ronin
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:57:02 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep%SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Bomber Crews and PhDssdnd
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>>Okay, Stu, *what does it mean*?
>>
>>(I feel like a major sucker here....)
>>
>>Dr. Steve
>
>
>I can't say.
>
>        Stu

  I was just asking to be nice, Dr. Stu.

Dr. Steve
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:05:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Oldies but goodies

Sayeth        Anne Diffily <ADBAM@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>

> Me, too.  Good grief!  Seems to me (if we're talking physical
> attractiveness here) some of the hottest women in the movies
> these days are over 40.  Susan Sarandon, Cher, Barbara Hershey,
> and on and on.  Mark's horrified-looking exclamation, "41!",
> just seems kind of silly to me.   Don't *young* men still
> have a thing for the so-called mystique of the "older woman"?
> Remember Mrs. Robinson?  "The Summer of '42"?

     I have always had a thing for 'older' women (older than me,
anyway).  I am far more influenced by how a person carries his/herself
than by that person's physical features (though I do not mind when the
two coincide).  I find Raquel Welch in her 40's a far more attractive
person than Raquel Welch in her 20's.

> Hmph. We don't care.  We know who appreciates us.  For instance,
> my 6-year-old son thinks I'm beautiful, and tells me so daily.
> :-)  :-)  :-)

     Count me in as one, thought I won't commit to calling you
beautiful until I know you better.  (But I'd guess your son isn't far
off, if at all.)

>      - Anne, who looks pretty good for her age -- (gasp!) 40
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the underscored
section of this line.

The Ronin
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 08:02:58 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>   I don't see how this clarifies matters. Perhaps you could simply start
> from the beginning and explain how you know as a linguist (whatever the
> definition of linguistics) that there would be nothing wrong with English
> changing into a system of grunts?

Ok, here's a skeletal explanation.  I'll be happy to add flesh to the
skeleton if desired -- but not right now -- I've got to log off soon.
As a linguist, I know that language, although difficult to define, is
usually thought of as a system of communication used by human beings.
(Do I need to define communication here?  I don't think it's crucial to
do so.)  I know that language/dialects are dynamic.  They all change.
I know that one reason languages/dialects change is to meet the changing
needs of speakers.  I know that all languages/dialects are capable of
such change.  If a system of grunts meets the needs of the speakers of
English, there's no way it can be deemed "wrong."
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:07:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Captain CAAAAAAVEMAN!!!!! <ARHODES%DREW.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fitting in

In article <tfilt198302@drew.edu>, Natalie Maynor <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU> writes
   :
>> Hey!  I used to be a copy editor!  Does that count?  It proved to me
>
> I was editor of the Arts & Sciences Newsletter for three years, so I
> guess I can join the editor group.   I was also editor of the
> Neighborhood News, a "newspaper" I created on notebook paper and
> distributed around the neighborhood when I was about 8 years old.
> I just remembered something else.  I was Society Editor of the newspaper
> at Millsaps College for a year or so.  (Society Editor meant simply
> writing a weekly gossip column.  I loved it.)  I guess I have more
> editing credentials than I realized. :-)

        I guess I'm an editor of sorts as well - I edit the electronic
newsletter called the CRT for the gaming club on campus.
>
>> logged in as often as I am.  Guess I'll have to join the college kid
>> clique.  Aimee, Aaron, Alec, Adam..funny how our names all start with
>> A.  Does that mean anything?
>
> Of course.  It means that only A students join WORDS-L.
>    --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
>
        Ha!  I have never been accused of that honor!  :)

                          |_
                          Oo\ Alex, VC
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:14:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "The harder I work, the behinder I get"
 <TRAVEN%VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Understatement of the Year
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.EDU

>You mean the Swiss agents?  I do remember now that Switzerland is
>exceptional in that trains actually stop before entering Switzerland
>so that customs agents can board the train and roam around.  But I
>don't think they've stamped my passport in recent years.  Nobody has
>on trains in Europes.  Airports tend to be more formal than trains,
>but even the customs agents at the airport in Rome several years ago
>just waved bunches of people right through without even looking to
>see whether we had passports of any kind.

	Memories of European travel, c. 1984 --

The one international train I was on (Paris to Brussels) *did* stop briefly at
the border, but no one stamped our passports; all we did was hold them up as
the agent whisked past us.

After that, we rented a car and made 4 border crossings.

At the Belgium-Luxembourg line, there was a flashing red traffic light and a
guardhouse.  We (and the traffic in the other direction) sat at the light for
a few minutes, waiting for something to happen.  When no one emerged from the
guardhouse, everyone just started up and drove across the border.

Crossing from Luxembourg to (then West) Germany late on a Sunday afternoon, we
were in the middle of a traffic jam.  It *wasn't* because of slow border guards
-- in fact, all the officials did was act as traffic cops, waving the traffic
through the intersection.

Germany to Switzerland and Switzerland to France were so unexceptional that I
don't even recall them.  I know we entered Switzerland on a national holiday,
which made finding gas and cashing traveler's cheques rather difficult.

Say, won't Bill have the latest information on French and US airport customs
procedures?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven@pittvms			Bitnet		412-624-0097 (office)
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu  	Internet	412-624-0110 (fax)
			"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America
			 had better learn baseball."	-- Jacques Barzun
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:39:24 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Fredric <FDOLEZAL%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change
              15 Apr 1992 10:13:11 CDT from <fwp@CC.MSSTATE.EDU>

SCUSE ME WHILE I JUMP IN THIS LINGUINI THREAD

On Wed, 15 Apr 1992 10:13:11 CDT Frank Peters said:
>In article <9204151044.AA14656@isis.sics.se> torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
> says:
>>                    Reading closely Natalie's responses to this question,
>>the conclusion I arrive at is that there isn't really anything in what she
>>is saying that is in any way contrary to what people mean when they say
>>that it would be deplorable if the English language were to change into
>>a system of grunts.
>
>What we have agreed upon (I think) is the fact that language changes to
>meet the changing needs of a culture that is using it.  Language change
>is an effect of cultural change rather than a cause of it.
>
When you say "Language Change" are you including, say, phonological,
morphological, etc. change?
I cannot see how the 'needs' of the culture determine pronunciation
I would question this notion in semantics also:  but grunting seems
to be more in the morphophonosyntactic domain; thus the system simplifies
in one domain,the "sound system", but must in turn get much more complex
underlyingly (if one were to convey equal info.)  Is there INTENTIONALITY
behind language change?

>So when you say
>
>(a) It would be deplorable if the English language were to change into
>    a system of grunts.

perhaps he means aesthetically deplorable, because, again, on the level
of communication the language would shift complexity from one component
to another.
>
>Do you agree with my analysis so far?
>--
need to know if language came first or culture........
////linguist at large//////
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:02:39 -0400
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Rita <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pre-Clam Slam
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>Sorry this response took so long in coming, but before I could answer
>I had to clear out space in my directory -- in VMS parlance, I was
>overdrawn.

        Well, you just tell Betsy that I said to give you a bigger quota!!
:-).


that she does not ride a motorcycle.  No whip, but she did have a helmet
>with the motto: I KNOW JACK SHIT.  By the way she was the only one in
>leathers.

        Ahem!  I wore my leather jacket!  Ok, so it isn't black and
menacing
looking.  I'll try to get one with a picture of bernardykins on it for
clambake.


Czarina
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:43:50 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Carol Goodson <CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
              8 Apr 1992 13:41:24 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Natalie, I am definitely not a linguist...can't argue with you about
linguistics at all..


Using language is a social act, and therefore social judgements about it are
o.k. in my opinion....

Continuing, judging from what I have heard, I can't accept your contention that
children automatically learn the rules of grammar without effort... not the
rules of correct grammar....I know I'll get killed for this, but I think that
the concept of standard English is good and worth preserving.
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