HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Gabrielle's empty basket (of raspberries!)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 10:49:13 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <C1Jtzu.97@panix.com>,
lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
>In <1k6nelINNaph@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>
>
>>Arthur Johnson said, hold it, Gabrielle.  Most people are
>>Westerners.  I submit that this is true.  Some of my cultural and
>>intellectual training has been at the reluctant behest of whites.
>>So I am a Westerner.  Afro-Americans are, unfortunately, Westernized
>>(sounds like a drycleaning process!) as well as Africanized.  But I
>>also question Western thought and Western actions and how it does
>>and does not pertain to me and my folks.
>
>Face it Gabrielle, you are just as "Western" as I (or any of your
>other nemesises on this list) am.  Yeah you can criticize "western"
>thinking (and practices) So can (and do) I.  But somehow you seem to
>think that because you are black and I am white, I am "of" the West
>(and thus have a stake in defending it), while you are really an
>outsider who has no stake in the existing order (and thus may
>criticize "honestly").
.
.
Folks, you notice that he has not decided to address any of my stuff
until now?  Chicken shit behavior.

>
>Sorry to have to hold up a mirror to you, but isn't it obvious that
>someone like yourself, who spends as much time using (and enjoying) an
>international computer network funded largely by the pentagon and
>multinational corporations, clearly does have a stake in the existing
>order (and is a part of it).  Your whole lifestyle (and your future
>hopes to be a widely published author) are entirely dependent on
>living in a society such as the U.S. which produces sufficient surplus
>to support artists such as yourself.
.
.
You forgot my post several days ago identifying myself as a writer
and the dichotomies within it? This is useless, really.

>Of course I'm not saying you shouldn't be critical of *our* society.
>But don't pretend that you are somehow a passive victim of it all
>while random white people,
.
.
Twaddle.  Good-bye, Larry.  I hope you learn exactly what I've meant
sooner rather than later, instead of waiting for the last minute for
a rather silly-ass "bombs away."
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: This Week In Black History (1/25 - 1/31 1993)
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:56:18 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: panther.ai.mit.edu

Today is Monday January 25, 1992. 

(My comments are in brackets:  [])

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 25   Sojourner Truth addressed the first Black Women's Rights
                Convention, Akron Ohio, 1851

January 26   54th Regiment, first Black infantry unit, formed 1863
             Executive Order 9981, to end segregation in US Armed Forces
                signed by President Harry Truman, 1948

January 27   Opera singer Leontyne Price makes her debut at the
                Metropolitan Opera House 1961

January 28   John Brown organized raid on Arsenal at Harper's Ferty, 1858
             Philadelphia's Free Africa Society organized, 1787
             Joseph Howze named auxiliary bishop of Misissippi 1973

January 29   Franics L. Cardoza elected State Treasurer of South
                Carolina, 1872 
             Charles Mahoney, first Black American delegate to the UN,
                dies 1966

January 30   William Wells Brown published first Black drama, "Leap to Freedom"
                1858
             Franklin Thomas named president of the Ford Foundation 1979

January 31   Samuel L Gravely becomes first Black person to Command a
                US warship 1962

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
Peace.
"[I will never have] another Jimmy Carter grain embargo, Jimmy,
 Jimmy Carter, Jimmy Carter grain embargo, Jimmy Carter grain embargo."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle during the Bentson debate
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:40:08 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <1993Jan27.213642.2939@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com
(Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>res4w@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert E. Schmieg) writes:
>>3) IF you or he DO NOT have any documentation that this has
>>occurred (and documentation is NOT "he said she said ..." or "
>>my cousin ...) then EITHER get the documentation in order and
>>pursue 1) above, OR SHUT UP.  You and he are either spreading
>>unfounded rumors, or else ignoring a changeable situation.	
>
>Ooh, the old "Get loud and hope you can intimidate someone by demanding
>documentation" ploy......sorry Robert, but I don't have any documentation
>right here handy at my fingertips. 
>
>But, this article (and this whole series) has been cross-posted to 
>soc.culture.african.american, and I'm willing to bet that some of
>the regular readers of that forum will be able to come up with 
>documented instances that will leave you with the bitter taste of
>a size 10 flight boot placed squarely between your molars. 
>
>(Okay Chad, don't let me down!) 
       ^^^^
I missed the question, I'll answer it and provide statitics, if need be. BTW, I
won't let you down. Gee, what I am trying to find statistics for now.
 
Peace, :-)
Chad J Glover
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu   or   glovercj@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu 
Drexel University Software Testing Lab
"Give a Man a Fish, you Feed him for a Day,
Teach a man to Fish, you Feed him for a Lifetime."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney)
Subject: Re: A bushel of raspberries for Kolodney
Organization: The Devil's Advocate
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:43:11 GMT

In <C1DJFo.8DK@panix.com> sieh@panix.com (Nutella) writes:


>Just a quick comment here.  I found the above to be rather ironic
>because from Larry Kolodney, I see the theme of how people are people
>no matter what the skin color/ethnicity.


Just a point of clarification.  I agree that "people are people" in
the sense that we are all born into the "human condition."  That is,
we are all born helpless, experience a chronic desire for physical and
emotional sustinence throughout our lives, and ultimately are
confronted with the task of finding a place for ourselves in a with a
world not of our making.

At the same time, within this very abstract commonality there
is tremendous variation, both in individual endowments and in the
social conditioning that partly makes us who we are.  Men are not the
same as women.  A lawyer in 1990's New York is not the same as a
peasant in medieval France, and not merely because of "individual
choices" to be different.

	Why is this clarification important?  Because one of the major
themes of my postings is that there is a constant tension between what
individuals *choose* to do, and how changing social conditions alter
the potentialities of the moment as well as the social context through
which the potentialities are interpreted.  As Marx put it succinctly:
"Men make their own history, but not as they please."

	And that's why it really makes no sense to attempt to make
crude judgments about the "goodness" or "badness" of "European
culture" (or any other culture for that matter).  Culture is really an
historical process, a working out by a particular human society of the
various "human condition" issues I mentioned above.  Our 20/20
hindsight about the correctness of the choices made in the past is
useful in helping us to learn how to do things better in the future.
But to obsess about condemning those cultures whose actions we
disapprove of in retrospect is about as useful as King Canute
raging at the tide.



-- 
larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
_(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: sieh@panix.com (Nutella)
Subject: Re: Cabinet and bigotry as Diversity
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:29:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.155133.28977@netnews.noc.drexel.edu> 
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.023154.18879@samba.oit.unc.edu>
>Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>"Diversity" gives us common criminals like Zoe Baird who for Clinton
>>are appropriately female rather than appropriately honest.
>
>"Diversity" has nothing to do with criminals or criminal actions, again,
>someone demonstrates their negative association of miniroties and diversity
>with crime. One person can not and should not represent a whole idea or class.

Agreed.  Unfortunately, in the effort to move away from stereotyping groups
based on individuals, the fact that people place such emphasis on making sure
on "proportionality" being observed, people continue to hold the the idea that
a single individual can and do (maybe should?) represent a whole idea or
class, gender, and ethnicity.  A very recent example was a thread started
by Andrew Chin from the sister group soc.culture.asian.american in which he
questioned whether or not an Asian American will ever be a part of Clinton's
administration.

-- 
//Lui Sieh		|How seldom we weigh our neighbor in the same
Mail: sieh@panix.com 	|balance with ourselves.  -- Thomas A. Kempis
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: These are my opinions...but others may share them as well
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Racists oppose Afro-Cuban appointee to State Dept.
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:12:29 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <2489@blue.cis.pitt.edu> by pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Makala P Mweene):

> It might be important to note that the majority of the Cubans in America
> who are conspiring against Castro are white and formed the rich-class that
> that in tandem with orgainised crime had a strngle hold on and ruled Cuba
> before the revolution.
> 
> I understand that a significant proportion of Cuba (60%??) is black. These
> people believe that life would be worse were it not for Castro (rightly or
> wrongly)and would die for him. 

The only problem is that if I'm not mistaken, a LARGE proportion of the 
Marielitos were BLACK.  Obviously they didn't see much of a future for 
themselves in Cuba.  I wouldn't call that being willing to die for Castro.
I've also heard that there is a measure of White racism in Cuba.  Are there
any Blacks in significant positions of power?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"Read my lips, no new Haitians.  Ack!" - Bill the Prez
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Andrew Hacker in Palo Alto
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:26:30 GMT

In article <1k7bcmINNosq@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>I just wanna say my best homegirl Omonike and I went to see and hear
>Andrew Hacker last night at Printers' Inc in Palo Alto and despite
>Ted Frank's smart-ass comments about the man's findings being bogus
>(meaning, it don't serve us white folks' continuing aims to sustain
>our privileges)

Sigh.  I haven't received a single "privilege" for being white in my
life.  For that matter, I've consistently spoken out against white
privileges, and male privileges for that matter -- I defy you to find
a single post where I try to "sustain" white privileges.

I see no reason why you need to assume that my objections to Hacker 
are based on his conclusions rather than his innumerate methodologies.  
Nor do I see any reason why you need to be insulting, when I've given 
you no reason to question my motivations.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: How white America perceives African-Americans??!??
Date: 24 Jan 93 02:09:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: pslu1.1993Jan24.020945.7128
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison

In article <1993Jan21.180129.13733@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp  
(Michael Friedman) writes:
>
     [...some stuff deleted...]

Darryl writes: 
> >I guess a similar sentiment on the part of the British necessitated 
> >the Revolutionary War. And look what happened...
> 
> Darryle, I suggest you read up a bit on US history.  The British had
> no such sentiment - they usually bent over backwards by the standards
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of the day to avoid violence.  The Revolutionary War was not caused by
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Brittish shooting rioters.  If your highschool history courses
> left you with that impression they were pretty pathetic.
> 
     Ah, Mike, the Truth finally comes out. You're a Tory, a British Spy  
bent on spreading Disinformation about our Glorious American Revolution  
and thereby paving the way for your Hidden Agenda: the restoration of  
British Royal Perogative and Admiralty Courts in all Fifty Colonies!!! :-)

     Seeing as you and your family are only recent Americans (unlike the  
rest of us whose families have been here since _at least_ the early 19th  
century), I can understand why you have not yet had the great American  
icons of the Boston Massacre, the Boston Tea Party, the Massacre at  
Lexington, and that great American tradition of tar and feathering Tories  
(real or perceived) branded into the deepest recesses of your soul. But  
you will learn. So, I suggest that you wise up and give up all your  
ancestral heritage. Resistance is futile, Mike. :-)    

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
------
> I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one  
else.


Arthur Johnson
johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu 
Subject: The Term "Biracial"
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:52:50 GMT

To Mr. Jackson:

Amazing!  I put time and effort into explaining our beliefs about our
child's identity and still got back the same line "Well, your child will be
seen as Black and therefore is Black".  You completely ignored everything I
said.  How interesting that you, as an African American, would tell me that
I should accept a less than accurate label for my child because "that's how
White America sees him".  If your ancestors thought that way, you would not
be at a major university having this discussion.  But since I now see that
you will not even afford me the minimal respect of *acknowledging* my
arguments, I will leave you to your opinions and turn my attention to
raising a proudly BIRACIAL child.  Ciao.
                              Renee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: gaff@sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Subject: "Before the Mayflower"
Reply-To: gaff@srhqla.sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Organization: Silent Radio, Los Angeles
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:10:01 GMT

I've been reading Lerone Bennett Jr.'s book on Black American history...
this is something that should be made into a PBS documentary series.
It also makes reading the standard ignorant white B.S. even harder,
especially after reading the section on Jim Crow in "Mayflower".
White folx need to get educated about what was really going on in
America back then.  All this crying about AA being reverse discrimination
is one big fuckin' JOKE when you know even a little bit of the truth.
I can see (even clearer now) why Black folx can just give up on whites
and tell 'em to go take a leap.  So anyone out there getting all fired up
to blast on AA and talk stupid shit, just go spend $12 at Waldenbooks.

			"BEFORE THE MAYFLOWER"
			Lerone Bennett Jr.
 			Penguin history

'Nuff said.

-- 
Jon Gaff / SilentRadio head tech support bozo.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: Andrew Hacker in Palo Alto
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:27:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.180426.13332@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> johnson@whitewater.chem.w
isc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:

> Just try and explain to a leftist white
>why black kids need a first-rate _technical_, as well as
>literary/artistic, education sometime. Then stand back and watch the shit
>hit the fan as the leftist white waxes lyrical about the wonderful
>musical, artistic, spiritual, and intuitive nature of black culture, and
>why would anyone want to destroy that by teaching black folks biology, or
>chemistry, or (Goddess forbid! :-)) _higher_ mathematics. No, better leave
>technical things to those "culturally best suited" to things technical.
>It's pathetic.
>
>Arthur Johnson

Arthur Johnson is quite right in suggesting that white lefties are not
free of paternalistic attitudes.  Just the same, and without trying to
defend them (being a white leftie), I wonder if that isn't spreading
it a bit too thick.  Can anyone produce one single line from a certified
leftist white that even remotely suggests something that stupid?

We all understand that it's fun to kick white liberals: they're less
likely to kick back, some will even ask for more, and besides it's
true that there's a good deal of hypocrisy among us (myself included).
But I can't help feeling that too much energy is being wasted on easy
targets.

Norman Miller


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Cuba
Keywords: Mario Baeza, Assistant Secretary of State for Latin-American Affairs
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:22:37 GMT

In article <C1IC4z.G7E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The Wise Man from the East) writes:
>Speakers of the house don't have any powers even here in the US. Heck, you
>need 2/3 of the house and 2/3 of the senate to override the whims of a single
>president! Wrong?

Wrong.

>>>And the status of blaks there is in no
>>>doubt the highest in the Americas in terms of self-esteem, health-care, level
>>>of education etc... 
>>
>>Unless they have AIDS, and then they're locked up in prison camps.
>
>Here blaks are locked-up anyway -- with or without AIDS. There are more blak
>males in prison (between the age of 20-29) than in college (all ages!).

I'm sorry, I made the mistake of thinking I was dealing with an intelligent
person.

>>>Unfortunately, due to the 30 year embargo (or otherwise),
>>>Cuba is not a rich country. 
>>
>>Cuba's only survived because 25% of their income was in Soviet subsidies.
>>Now that Russia isn't trying to embarass the US anymore, Cuba's economy
>>will go the way of other communist countries, and collapse.
>
>She wouldn't need that 25% if she were allowed to trade freely. Simple logic.

And what would Cuba sell?  They can't even provide for themselves, they're
suddenly going to become a huge exporter?  Why did Russia have to subsidize
her, then?  Why couldn't they have just sold all these fictitious exports
to the old Iron Curtain market?

>>>Think about that for a moment...So she has to get her
>>>oil (at market price) from Russia instead of Venezuela, a US puppet..
>>
>>Are you saying that Venezuela wouldn't charge market price?
>
>That's probably your only valid argument here. I used the term "market price"
>in anticipation of ill-informed theories that somehow Russia is subsidizing 
>oil imports for her. Get it now??

Russia *used* to subsidize oil imports for Cuba.  They did until well
within Gorbachev's reign.  They *stopped* propping up the Cuban dictators,
and that's why their economy is in so much trouble.  Learn some history.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,talk.politics.misc
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The Wise Man from the East)
Subject: Re: Cuba
Keywords: Mario Baeza, Assistant Secretary of State for Latin-American Affairs
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:43:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.202237.19286@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <C1IC4z.G7E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The Wise Man from the East) writes:
>>Speakers of the house don't have any powers even here in the US. Heck, you
>>need 2/3 of the house and 2/3 of the senate to override the whims of a single
>>president! Wrong?
>
>Wrong.
>
>>>>And the status of blaks there is in no
>>>>doubt the highest in the Americas in terms of self-esteem, health-care, level
>>>>of education etc... 
>>>
>>>Unless they have AIDS, and then they're locked up in prison camps.
>>
>>Here blaks are locked-up anyway -- with or without AIDS. There are more blak
>>males in prison (between the age of 20-29) than in college (all ages!).
>
>I'm sorry, I made the mistake of thinking I was dealing with an intelligent
>person.

If that's what you think, what do you think I think about you son?? An idiotic
moron maybe??

kauta.