HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:32:58 GMT

[]
I was genuinely depressed by Howard's posting on this
subject, this thread following as closely as it does on
the heels of the 'blame' thread.  I also wouldn't have
guessed Howard to be so completely unaware of the results
of systemic racism/sexism/heterosexism.

In article <1bc9doINNrp4@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM writes:
>I'm not sure quite how to respond to this, but I'll try.  
>To my knowledge, I have not been involved in the type of 
>thing Donald is screaming about, but, in reading
>his post, I am supposed to feel I am.  I am not perfect 
>and, I trust, neither is Donald or anyone else reading this 
>posting.  HOWEVER, I am not evil by definition and CERTAINLY 
>NOT by the skin color I happened to have been born with.  

I didn't like Donald's post either, but what I've quoted
above is pretty typical "just doesn't get it" stuff that
we usually see from the terminally clueless.  Howard goes on
to talk about blame, and the fact that his whiteness doesn't
automatically make him guilty of racism.

The problem is, obviously, that we can't really know to
what extent those of us who are members of some privileged
class (be it race, gender, affectional orientation,
religion, etc.) profit from that membership.  Unless Howard
*knows* for a *fact* that he's never gotten a job over a
more qualified woman, that he's never gotten housing that
was denied to a black person, that he's never gotten a loan
from a bank that turns down equally qualified Hispanic
applicants, that he's never gotten service from a sales
clerk who is snubbing a sissy, etc., he can't really claim
that he's never benefited from those kinds of bigotries.
The assignment of blame is largely irrelevant;  it seems to
me that we need to accept the fact that we do live in a
racist culture and that many of us do accrue what to us are
invisible benefits before we can begin to address changing
it.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Video rumors
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 03:06:38 GMT


I went a few rounds with Block Buster a few years ago when they refused to
carry "Last Temptation of Christ."  I do _not_ have a high opinion of them.

======================================================================
"For I can see that in the midst of death, Life persists; in the
midst of untruth, Truth persists; in the midst of darkness, Light
persists."                             Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

"I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it."                        ME!
lazarus@wixer.cactus.org, Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, 
Austin, TX  78727-4409, 512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Paul Jabara
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:24:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct8.222433.2633
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct7.185730.25143@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>|> Oh my.  I'd forgotten all about Jonathan whatshisname.
>
>Richmond.  Road Runner.  G-I-R-L-F-R-E-N.

God, even pop culture amnesiac/illiterate that I am, I know
that it's R-I-C-H-M-A-N.

He's originally from the Boston area.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:13:01 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Oct15.160549.23773@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.144539.10187@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>My same informant, commenting on my contention that there
>>*is* no cabal (I paraphrase) suggests that I can say that
>>because I've not been pilloried myself.  Tell 'em how I got
>>here, Steve, and the reaction to my 29-post grand slam.
>
>I've been trying to think of anyone who is a regular poster
>who hasn't been blasted in a major way at some point in the
>past, and I've come up empty.  Is there, in fact, such a
>person?

Is the lovely George Reilly (georgere@microsoft.com) regular
enough to qualify for your list? I cannot believe that he
has ever been even lightly singed here, although I can
imagine he's been toasted from time to time.

And how about sweet Rod Williams (rjwill6@pacbell.com), a
man whose tastes in coffee are as cultivated as his wit?
Has Rod ever been roasted here?

There must be more, but those two are amongst my personal
favorites in the mostly motly, but fascinating, crew of The
Raging Queen.


-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Subject: Re: Psychoanalysis, anybody?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:20:25 GMT

maffray@imag.fr (Frederic Maffray) writes:

>I would like to launch a new topic: Psychoanalysis.

Request for clarification:  psychoanalysis, as opposed
to psychotherapy?  As far as I know, only two schools -
Jungian and Freudian - perform analysis, and they differ,
even within their own cohorts, about how this ought to
be done.  Broadly speaking, the Freudian approach requires
several years of *daily*, pretty much nondirected, couch
talk.  Remember what Freud thought of homosexuality,
though (complete nondirectedness can't happen; there's
always a context).  Jungian analysis, while less strict
about the mechanics, brings more overt ideology (about
dreams and symbology, to be grossly oversimplistic) into
the analytical environment.  

_Echo's Subtle Body_ by Patricia Berry would give you
an idea of how women's/lesbian/feminist issues might be
approached in a Jungian setting.  

If you're talking about psychotherapy, crisis intervention,
or other types of clinical psych, that's a whole 'nother
ball of wax.  You might look at _Psychotherapy with Lesbian
Clients_ by Kristine L. Falco for a good shot at what
therapists *ought* to be doing wrt their clients' gayness.

Max
max@athena.mit.edu
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:41:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

John Dorrance (thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:
  [a slice-of-life -- but whose life?]
> 
> (silently, John turns from the dishes piled high in the sink, steps
> over the baby playing with... something... on the floor, gets a can
> of Duff out of the stained fridge, 

God damn it, you know I can't stand that frikkin Duff!  Next time get
me some Groin Belt.  Shit!

  (beers pass... 5 or 6 beers later, sloppily amorous]
Aw, c'mere.  You know I'd never treat my thaaang bad like that.
  (reaches out to grab a handful ... loses equilibrium, falls into
   dog dish.)

> ... dragging the baby from the trash..., 
"Trash thou art, to trash returnest."

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:07:09 GMT
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

Isn't it always when we sit back and rest, assured in the knowledge that we
are going to win, that we suddenly find ourselves wondering how we lost?
			Tom
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Allan Bloom died
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:12:05 GMT
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Oct9.040954.19694@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>However at one point in the middle of class, my professor (who could
>read ancient Greek quite well) stopped, looked at the class, read a
>sentence, and then said "this was deliberately mistranslated!" We
>looked a little closer, and you see a Bloom footnote (there were 100
>pages of them), and he's making some big point of his own on the basis
>of this mistranslation. I wish I marked it down - I'd love to go look
>this up and see if what my professor said is true.

Hmm.  Sounds likely to me.  I'd be interested in knowing what the point was.
>
>ObMotss - in the Oregonian yesterday they had an article that included
>four passages of text, and the OCA's interpretation of how they would
>be treated in schools. One of the passages was from a novel that was
>quoting the bit in Plato's Symposium, the "theory" that humans were
>split in half, and if both genders of the half were the same then the
>newly split people were homosexual, and if the genders were different
>the new people were heterosexual. The OCA said it would be "questionable"
>
>Unfortunately, they did not ask if the Symposium itself would be
>teachable, under the OCA amendment. I don't see how it could be.  "The
>highest love is that between two men".

The trouble with ancient Athenian homosexuality and with Allan Bloom is the 
extreme misogyny.  Women are lesser humans to these guys, so of course if a
man wants a "higher" love, he'll have to get himself another man.

My impression is that Bloom's version of homosexuality was that it (and he
only meant male-male love) was reserved for the "elite".  All of the lower
sorts of people should stick to being "breeders".  The elite could have its
lovely little secret, and "higher loves", while everybody else needs
Traditional Family Values.  So the elite needs to propagandize and enforce
the very values it doesn't have to follow.  Yech!

As for women, Bloom was rumored to refuse to take women students.  And 
certainly he is extremely misogynistic in "Closing of the American Mind".
Women are "unfit" for philosophy, he claims.  Also he claimed that 
women shouldn't have sex with their lovers before marriage because the only 
thing that keeps a het marriage together is the sexual desparation of the man.
Double yech!

As for us dykes, I think we're not supposed to exist.   
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 03:06:24 GMT


In article <mattm-151092134448@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.182958.26087@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) wrote:
 
>> In article <ldrc2cINNi92@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
 
>> >Fuck off...
 
>> Maybe if you beg, but probably not even then.

>Your loss, 'Grand Ma.'

Whew!  I thought you just had lunch.  Did you do the wild
thing too?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: tfarrell@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Thomas Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Call the Boston Globe about Oregon murders
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:13:53 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

For anyone who would welcome me as a new user, thanks but don't bother. 
I usually post as gandalf@dworkin, but that machine seems to be down.

I recently noted that the Boston Globe has had absolutely no coverage 
of the #9 issue and murders in Oregon. Well, I just called them. A very
nice man whose name I didn't get said that they were aware of the ballot
question and had mentioned it in an editorial, but that he agreed that 
their coverage may have been inadequite. I pointed out that there had
been murders and that I felt that this deserved serious attention. 

He said this was the second call today about this issue, and that he
would certainly pass on my concerns to the editors, and asked where I
got my information. I told him it was from the internet and told him
what the internet is. 

The number to call is 617-929-3020. Speak to whoever answers the
phone. You don't have to provide any great revalation or indeed even
give your name. Just ask that the issue be covered.

			Tom
p.s. Any response to me on this matter should be posted to soc.motss or
mailed to gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu as mail to THIS site
tends to get spit back at you.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:18:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Oct9.191814.3611
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <mattm-091092092218@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>you nevertheless
>can miss the realities under all those words.  It reminds
>me of the Wrath of Khan - one line in particular:

>I'm *laughing* at the superior intelligence, Dolphie.  Laughing.

To pick up on that trash, your idea of superior intelligence
reminds *me* of "Genghis Khan":

Sophia Loren:  I shall not rest until you're dead, Mongol dog!
John Wayne:    Yore byooti-full in yore wrath, Tartar woo-man!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:14:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct7.181455.4105
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1av7r5INNd75@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>For instance: *Every* woman who sucks in her cheeks,
>arches an eyebrow, and flares her nostrils in order to 
>look sexy is, whether she's aware of it or not, copying 
>Marlene Dietrich.

Not to mention more than a few gay men.
I'm not sure how successful they are...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: PASSING by Langston Hughes
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:18:26 GMT

In article <Bw30r9.H5D@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>There's a movie from the '30's that deals with this theme -- I can't
>remember the name of it.  It has to do with a mother-daughter
>relationship in which the daughter decides to pass.  

The movie you're thinking of was made in the '40s and then
remade in the very early 1960s, and is rather more complicated
than that.  It has to do with the friendship between a black
woman and a white woman, the latter of whom took the former
into her employ as a maid.  It's the daughter of the black
woman who decides to pass.  Neither version of the film
makes any bones about why she chose to do so.  I can't
remember the name of the film or who was in either version.
They replay both versions on AMC constantly, but, alas,
I can't get cable out where I live.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:56:39 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct15.060451.5772@netcom.com>, ssturgis@netcom.com (Scott
Sturgis) wrote:
> 
> Well is is not as cute in person believe me. And certainly not as young
> looking either.

Well, he's a little *too* pretty, I must admit, when all powdered up.
A *few* rough edges just make for more to grab on to...

And I wanna grab here, and there, oh - and over there, and maybe down...
well, you know.

Melmothra, ACC
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Barbara Boxer (Re: Quayle Campaign Stroll Disrupted in SF)
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:34:08 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>So, how is Barbara Boxer doing in the polls? After reading George Will's
>scary endorsement of Herschensohn and Dean being called by their campaign to
>volunteer ("because she's been going down in the polls" they said) I am 
>getting worried. Herschensohn is a raving maniac! He wants to abolish the
>Department of Education, among other things. Anyone have recent poll numbers?
>I had last seen Boxer at 22 points ahead but the person who called Dean said
>she had dropped 8 points recently.

Last I heard (within the last week), both Barbara Boxer and
Dianne Feinstein were about 20 points ahead in their respective
Senate races.  Ditto Clinton in California, BTW...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 13:36:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct15.032800.1819@syacus.acus.oz.au>
brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) writes:

>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>>Focus on the now and talk about the now.
>>The past informs the present, but it does not control it, and nobody
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>can make up for past wrongs, they can just try to right the wrongs of
>>today.

>I absolutely agree with this attitude. Bitterness and hatred because of
>past wrongs only saps us; resolve and determination not to allow past 
>wrongs to recur only strengthens us. The former loses sight of the
>individual, which is the first step towards bigotry; the latter celebrates
>the individual, which is the first step towards freedom for all people.

It's hard for me to see how any sane person could disagree
with these thoughts, and for that reason I usually see those
who *do* disagree (legions of them) as insane.

But while Brent's last phrase is close to my personal mantra
(a path is formed by walking on it), it's crucial, I think,
not to overrate this rhetoric.  Action is what talks
loudest, and while rhetoric is a fine catalyst, it is not
itself the fuel.

Nobody rejects fine thoughts, which makes a lot of sense to
me.  But fine thoughts alone do not a remedy make, and I
rather imagine a common reaction would be, "take your foot
off my neck *first*, then we can talk about how your idea of
a better world compares to mine."

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA
	<1992Oct10.023214.29773@spdcc.com> <1b5su8INNo8b@mizar.usc.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:47:53 GMT

In article <1b5su8INNo8b@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

   Oh, and one more thing.  As with saints in the Roman Catholic
   Church (and in the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is where the
   whole business of icons originates), icons can be summed up
   in a brief phrase, or in a conventionalized representation.

Right!  In fact (based on the Eastern Orthodox concept of icon), I've
always thought that an icon is an *image* of the person, not the
person.  Or perhaps better, an image of the key attributes of the
person.  And that image not merely summarizes the person, but stands
for the person in some way.

	Penny


--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Vanessa Redgrave to Play a Lesbian!
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:43:01 GMT

In article <1bc5bmINNrp4@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM writes:
>Huh?  Vanessa is the off-the-wall one with the odd views on politics and such!!

Depends on your perspective.  Vanessa is a fairly classical
leftist; Lynn is a Capitalist Tool who is embarrassed by
her father's homosexuality and by her sister's politics.
I'll take Vanessa, thankyouverymuch.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbian/Gay Square Dancing (great idea!!) :)
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:08:42 GMT
 <1992Sep28.071910.11465@adobe.com> <1992Oct10.063304.1668@adobe.com>
 <1992Oct11.003257.15620@microsoft.com>
Organization: University of Maine System

is there a lesbigay square dancing group in boston?  i
LOVE square dancing.  took lessons when i was a teenager,
but haven't had a chance to do it in my adult life.  it
woudl be wonderful to take it up again...  now i need a
western shirt...

                                       -ailsa
======================================================================

Amazing how long it takes the CAPS office to delete accounts!  B)

ALL MAIL TO ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com, please...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:43:50 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Oct16.151301.16209@microsoft.com>

frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
) shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
) >I've been trying to think of anyone who is a regular poster
) >who hasn't been blasted in a major way at some point in the
) >past, and I've come up empty.  Is there, in fact, such a
) >person?

) Is the lovely George Reilly (georgere@microsoft.com) regular
) enough to qualify for your list? I cannot believe that he
) has ever been even lightly singed here, although I can
) imagine he's been toasted from time to time.

How soon they forget.  I think George Madison might just
disagree with you, Frank.  And John Fisher called me names too,
but I think he may have been joking.  George Madison, of
course, wasn't.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:08:26 GMT

In article <1bf2g4INN1b3@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM  
(Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer) writes:

[That Lovely Letter]

} This is disgusting and horrible!  I am surprised to see this on motss.
} However, you seem equally willing to fight me as you do him.  I feel
} you painting us with the same brush.  If you still see us in the same
} category, there is really nothing further for me to say to you.

My, THAT was a giant stretch.  I'm sorry you feel that way.

Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!
Newsgroups: soc.motss