HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg )
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty/Illini vs EC
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:19:21 GMT

vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>How can anyone forget what happened to East Carolina vs. Illinois
>last year. The 'taunting' call was a scandal. EC should have went
>undefeated last year. Illini and EC fans know what I am talking about :/

Even a die-hard Illini fan like myself has to agree with you.  The call
sucked.  Speaking for myself only, I like taunting and excessive celebrations.

While we're on the subject of penalties, can somebody please explain to me 
why you never hear a name associated with a penalty in college football.


*******************************************************************************
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* Univ. of IL at Urbana-Champaign  |        OR      gtao@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* Department of Computer Science   |        OR      gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu     *
* --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *
*                                                                             *
*  	``Change, suddenly, is everywhere we look, sweeping empires and       *
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*    are rare. Today we stand at such a moment.''                             * 
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* --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *
* DISCLAIMER:  My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of CCSO or the    *
*              University of Illinois.					      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Question: Alabama-Kentucky 1988
From: <JCT3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 09:01:43 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Penn State University

Well, it wasn't a fake fg that won the game, just a well-executed
play action pass.  The QB in question was Vince Sutton.  He was
one of the most highly-recruited qbs in the nation coming out of
high school, but was a prop 48 casualty for two years.  I guess
the layoff REALLY hurt; he never quite got into a rhythm at BAMA.

I saw him play in an A-day game right after Stallings came to
T-town.  Tremendous athletic ability, but that's about it.  Never
really demonstrated the discipline to be a consistent, effective
QB.


Oh, well.


Jim Thomas
From: ttsai@crhc.uiuc.edu (Timothy Tsai)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Rose Bowl (Was: Why Michigan Sucks)
Date: 20 Nov 1992 16:04:29 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: haydn.crhc.uiuc.edu

ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder) writes:
>Why?  I thought the consensus of opinion was that Washington was
>somewhat weaker this year, and that Michigan was somewhat stronger.
I think the consensus is that Michigan is still a very good team.  However, the
highly favorable opinion that Michigan enjoyed earlier in the season has now
been tempered by their performances against Purdue and Illinois.
-- 
Timothy Tsai              Celtics Rule!!!
ttsai@uiuc.edu            Let's go Mets!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: nichols@spss.com (David Nichols)
Subject: Re: Rules check
Keywords: n
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:47:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.162126.26332@hou.amoco.com> zcjm0f@wwnv45.uucp (CJohn Mace) writes:
>With all of the rules changes recently, can someone quote me the rule
>for the advancement of a fumble?
>
>I am curious to know if Mississippi State could have legally advanced
>the fumble recovery on the punt.  An advance which they in turn fumbled.
>If they cannot advance the fumble, then it should have been State ball
>at the point of the recovery.  I have not heard anyone saying that it
>should be State ball, but I am still curious as to the rule.
>
>cmuck

There's something in the pro rules about muffed kickoffs, but I don't know
about college stuff for certain. I don't think there's anything in the
rules that prohibits the returning team from advancing a recovery of their
own fumble on a punt return.

--
 David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
 Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
*******************************************************************************
 Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: scott@ods.com (Scott Harper)
Subject: Re: Texas 35 SMU 14
Organization: Optical Data Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:33:23 GMT

Chris S. Robbins (crobbins@lonestar.utsa.edu) wrote:
: We control our own destiny- 2 wins= Cotton Bowl
:                             1 win= Bowl game

But Chris, you forgot another possibility that is just as likely
as your 2 wins choice...

0 wins=NO WHERE
-- 
Scott Harper                       Optical Data Systems, Inc.
scott@ods.com                      1101 E. Arapaho Road
(214) 234-6400                     Richardson, TX  75081
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: ddn@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.d.nason)
Subject: Two Losses Could Cost Cooper His Job
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:29:07 GMT

Here's some excerpts from George Strode's article in this morning's
Columbus Dispatch.  I present this exactly as the article reads, and
without my own comments (and believe me this was hard to do):

===============

John Cooper is not expected to survive as Ohio State football coach
if he loses a fifth atraight time to Michigan and a fourth straight
bowl game, high-placed university officials told The Dispatch.

If Cooper wins both games and goes 10-2 or beats Michigan and loses
in the Florida Citrus Bowl for a 9-3 record, he likely will continue
into his sixth season with the Buckeyes.

If Cooper loses to Michigan and wins the bowl game, also to be 9-3,
he may not survive.

After the bowl game, Jan. 1 in Orlando, Fla., university president
Gordon Gee will make the decision after he consults with athletic 
director Jim Jones, the board of trustees, and key administrators 
at Ohio State.

Jones would announce a decision to buy out Cooper, sources say.

...

Sources say Gee was upset when the Buckeyes started the Big Ten
with back-to-back losses, 20-16 at Wisconsin and 18-16 at home
to Illinois.  It put the Buckeyes in sole possession of last
place for the first time since 1947.

Gee detests the continuing losses to Big Ten teams other than
Michigan, a source said.

...

Sources indicate Cooper's status has created divisiveness within the
university, the community, and the alumni.  Therefore, Gee is
concerned about making the best decision for the university and
eliminating the divisiveness.

The university will buy out the remaining three years of Cooper's
annual base contract of $114,000.  The total buyout would be
$342,000 under terms of the contract, signed by Cooper in July and
scheduled to run through Dec. 31, 1995.

The money would come from the athletic department, not the
university's general fund, a source said.

...

University insiders say Cooper has little or no support from the
nine voting trustees.  Moreover, some trustees were upset last
year with Gee when Jones announced a new four-year contract
moments before the Buckeyes' 31-3 loss at Michigan.

...

Sources say the university may consider retired Michigan coach
Bo Schembechler, 63, to replace Cooper, at least on a short-term
basis, with one of Schembechler's assistants being elevated to the
head coaching job when Schembechler retires again.

...

Schembechler said during the Ohio State - Indiana telecast last
Saturday that his chances of becoming a college coach again were
"slim-to-none".

Two former Ohio State assistants, head coaches Glen Mason of
Kansas and Gary Blackney of Bowling Green, and Southern Cal
head coach Larry Smith are considered leading candidates to
replace Cooper.

...

===============

david
From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: ND and southern teams (was: FSU 1993 Schedule)
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:08:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: lgc.1992Nov18.180810.22846
Organization: Landmark/Zycor   Austin, Texas

In article <1992Nov18.172258.6800@cs.ucla.edu> reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>
>Relative to the number of great teams there are in the south, Notre Dame's
>schedule tends to be underrepresented in southern teams.  They've played
>very recently at Tennessee, and Miami, but not too many other places south
>of the Mason Dixon line.  (Unless you count Los Angeles.)  Since the
>major bowls are largely in the south, Notre Dame has played in those a lot,
>though often against non-southern teams.  Notre Dame and Alabama have only 
>played four or five times *total*, most of those in bowls.  I believe that

Six, 3 in bowls.

>Notre Dame has similar numbers of matchups with Georgia, Auburn, and some
>of the other longstanding southern football powers.  There was indeed 

Don't forget LSU, who played ND 3? or more times in the mid-80s.

>an ugly incident at Georgia Tech during the Devine years, which explains why 
>Georgia Tech and Notre Dame don't play regularly, but I don't know of any 
>particular animosity between ND and Florida, or Florida State, or Clemson, 
>or Auburn, or any of the other fine teams from the south.  Part of the
>reason is doubtless that many of Notre Dame's traditional rivals are from
>the east or midwest, part of the reason is a desire to avoid too much long
>travel (though that doesn't stop home and home series with USC, Stanford,
>Air Force, or BYU), but, otherwise, I don't really know why Notre Dame's
>schedule is so light on southern teams.  I don't think this is changing
>much in the upcoming years, as I remember ND's future schedules.  Other
>than the games with Florida State, I don't remember any other southern
>teams coming onto ND's schedule.
>
>-- 
>		Peter Reiher
>		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu
>




-- 
Matthew B. Shostak              Landmark/Zycor
mbs@zycor.lgc.com               (512) 292-2357
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: dkm2@ra.msstate.edu (David K. Magee)
Subject: Re: SEC Championship Game 
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:23:46 GMT

kollur@jec310.its.rpi.edu (Ramana Kolluri) writes:

>Is the SEC championship game on at 12:30 EST or 3:30 EST?
> 
>Ramana
> 
>.............................................

>Nov. 26th
>Auburn 999
>Alabama  0                     
>.............................................

Woof gods, please forgive her.  She merely mistyped the score.  It was a simple
transposition error. Please do not sacrifice her to the great elephant.




-- 
               David K. Magee | "Mandrake! Get over here and feed me that  
         MIS Graduate Student |  belt boy.  The Redcoats are coming! "
 Mississippi State University |
          dkm2@ra.msstate.edu |   -  General Jack Ripper, Dr. Strangelove 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge)
Subject: Re: WE WANT MIAMI!!
Keywords: Nebraska best team in the nation again!
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 18:26:30 GMT

In article <6825@news.duke.edu>, ds4@soc4.acpub.duke.edu (DIMITRIS SIDIROPOULOS) writes:
|> In article <skipb.721191476@cwis>, skipb@cwis.unomaha.edu (Skip Burrell) writes:
|> |> Allright!! Nebraska has shown it is once again a legitimate top 5 team. And
|> |> with Smokin' Tommie Frazier at QB, the Husker offense has become a truly
|> |> irresistable force. The Blackshirts have turned up their game a few notches to
|> 
|> That is what everyone said last year.  Almost everyone thought Nebraska was going
|> to run all over Miami and squash them.  

Actually, according to Chris Stassen's college football pool from last year, 
out of the 66 people that entered for the bowl games, only 3 people picked 
Nebraska to win last year's Orange Bowl.  And as far as confidence is 
concerned, Miami over Nebraska was the highest picked game in terms of 
confidence by the entrants.

And if you remember that the Vegas line for the game was Miami by 9.5 points, 
I don't know what you're talking about when you state how "almost everyone 
thought Nebraska was going to run all over Miami and squash them" when the 
exact opposite seemed to be true.  

-- 

Kevin H. Klinge
Bell Communications Research
kevink@soac.bellcore.com

 \\\\    ////////////////////////      ||||\\      //||||
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   \\\\////       /////                 ||| \\\  /// |||
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: bsricker@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN SCOTT RICKER)
Subject: Pack Orange Bowl Bound ?
Originator: bsricker@c00749-400wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bsricker@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN SCOTT RICKER)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:28:17 GMT


According to today's News and Observer:

Orange Bowl representatives will be on hand at Carter Finely Stadium
Saturday to watch the Wake - State game.  Evidently, if Miami ends up
playing Florida St in the Fiesta bowl, NCSU will be invited to play
the Big Eight Champ (Nebraska?, Colorado?) in the Miami on New Year's Day.

Cheers,
B
From: ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: fsu and A&M was(Re: Roll Tide down the Polls!)
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:00:59 GMT
	<jac1.721881957@Isis.MsState.Edu>
	<1992Nov16.224715.26895@b11.b11.ingr.com>
	<BxvDIq.4Dq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: American Math. Society

In article <BxvDIq.4Dq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tamu@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Henderson) writes:

   jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Kilpatrick) writes:

   >Stuff about Bama being number 2 because they came back to beat MSU and what
   >being #2 (or should be #3 A&M's case) in the country means.


   >>  Being #2 in the country does not mean you have to beat the pants off the #16
   >>(or whatever) team in the country.  Being able to come back and win (especially on
   >>the road) the way Bama did against a fine Mississippi State team certainly

   >Tell this to the pollesters and the fsu crew about A&M.  
   >Is there any precedent(sp?) of a 1 lose team leap frogging a no lose team?
   >Recently there has been the 1 tie leap frog, but with a lose.  So far
   >no one has proved they are better than us, someone has proved they are
   >better than fsu.

   >Todd

Since I'm neither an FSU nor an A&M fan, I hope I'm impartial on this
one (I'm one of those "obnoxious Fichigan dolts" we've all heard about
;-)).  The key words in the above paragraph are "no one" and
"someone".  The "no one" refers to TAMU's opponents.  A more
appropriate description could not be chosen (yes, I know, same for
Michigan).  The "someone" refers to the team that beat FSU, which is
Miami.  So, TAMU beat a bunch of "no one"'s, while FSU beat themselves
against a "someone".  I still think FSU is a better team than TAMU,
and should therefore be ranked higher.  The pollsters seem to agree.





-Alan Harder
 American Mathematical SOciety
 Michigan Fan
 Drinker of Anchor Steam
From: maxwellar@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: #1 in WAC
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:41:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.1992Nov16.174138.1
Organization: Utah Valley Community College

In article <1992Nov16.215123.27473@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n8843528@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Chris M. Jacques) writes:
> maxwellar@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
> 
>>> 	Suppose after the regular season, the final records look like:
>>> 
>>> 		Hawaii		6-2
>>> 		San Diego St.	6-2
>>> 		BYU		6-2
>>> 		XXX		6-2
>>> 
>>> 	Who will be WAC Champ?    
>>> 
>>While obviously all three would be WAC champs, SDSU would play in the
>>Holiday Bowl because of its win over both Hawaii and BYU.
> 
> O
>> Hey aren't you forgetting about Fresno State here. If they win thier last
> two games they will be 6-2 in the conference and 8-4 overall. They could
> have an outside shot for a minor bowl. The last two games come against San S
> Diego State and UTEP.
>>arthur
I would love it if FSU beat SDSU.  Would that send BYU to the Aloha Bowl
(assumming they can beat UTAH), and Hawaii to the Holiday??  Where would
Fresno State go??

arthur
From: traynor@fnalc.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Open question to Notre Dame fans
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:22:57 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalc.fnal.gov

In article <8f3pibG00iUy40hXxC@andrew.cmu.edu>, William Karamo Motley <wm1o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> In an article <1992Nov21.002347.1106@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> 
> zuniga@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Ralph Zuniga (FREAC/CAR)) writes:
> 
>>How about if ND drops the Navy game from its schedule, and decides to resume
>>series with Miami??? Navy hasn't won a game in this series since the 60's.
>>What do you ND'ers think??
> 
> I completely agree with you.  ND proves nothing playing a sorry Navy
> team.  I always used to look forward to Thanksgiving back in high school
> when a few friends and myself would sit down and watch the Miami-ND
> match-ups.  It would be nice to have that back.  Also, I think that
> atleast 30%-50% if not more of their meetings in the future could have
> NC implications.  Lets hope that we get to see if I'm right.
> 
> Will
 Sounds good to me too.  Bring back PSU too--that was a great series.

					-Mike Traynor

NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '93?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
 N N N   D  D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 7 Meg DRAM ///
 N  NN   D  D   Batavia IL, 60510               //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/
  
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:08:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.194508.1732@spss.com> nichols@spss.com (David Nichols) writes:
>>Do you really think the refs would have made the same call in Saturday's
>>game if the roles were reversed, and the game were at Penn State?  I wonder.
>
>Yes, I think that call would have been made anywhere, at any time. If you
>have the thing on tape, go back and time how long it took to clear the
>field. That's not going to get past any officials under any circumstances.

Does anyone remember an actual case in which a ref has made a call on
this rule in a truly critical situation?  In the case of the Notre Dame
game, a 15 yard penalty for celebration after the touchdown, on the
2 pt. conversion try, would have essentially given the game to Penn State.
Does anyone out there remember a similar case where the refs did call it?
Or another case in which the refs took away a team's reasonable chance to 
win for a celebration penalty?

Personally, I don't think the refs should make that call, any place,
against anybody, unless the circumstances are considerably worse than
they were at ND.  (Maybe if the fans tear down the goalposts, for instance.)
I would regard that kind of call as unwarranted interference with the
game on the part of the officials.  I think what they did was perfectly
appropriate, both not calling it after the touchdown and calling it
after the conversion.  Notre Dame did suffer for the celebration, since
Penn State got a long shot at coming back to kick a field goal, mostly
due to the celebration penalty on the kickoff.  Twenty seconds to go,
with timeouts remaining, at mid-field, down by one is most decidedly not
a sure loss.

>I will say that the only team I've seen that even approaches Notre Dame
>in terms of consistency of referee favoritism is Penn State, but only when
>playing at home. Notre Dame gets referee blessings at home and on the road.

I will refrain from posting the canonical list of times that Notre Dame
got obnoxiously screwed by bad calls.  It's not too tough to make up such
a list to match ever possibly unwarranted good call you might come up
with.  But it's fairly pointless.  In my opinion, Notre Dame doesn't get 
substantially more leniency from the refs than any other school does.  Can't 
say that I've seen Penn State get a lot more than the typical home field 
advantage, either.

-- 
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jbhuber@iastate.edu (Joseph B Huber)
Subject: Re: Huskers lose. Mega-Major Bummer!!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:38:46 GMT

In article <skipb.722096893@cwis> skipb@cwis.unomaha.edu (Skip Burrell) writes:
>HOld it, time out! I was at the game and those flags situated around the
>stadium were whipping pretty good. The wind was coming from the NorthWest at a
>steady 10-13 mph with gusts up to 20mph. The wind definately had an affect 
>on the game, 3 of ISU's FGs were kicked with the wind. And the wind made the
>Wind Chill miserable. The rest of your assesment is true, the ISU defense 
>played inspired football not letting the Husker offense get into any type of 
>rythm. They deserved to win, not us.
>
>I just had to make the record clear about the wind because *I* was freezing my
>butt off in it.

For Cyclone Stadium, the wind conditions during the Husker-Cyclone game were
mild.  It has been much worse on a couple of occasions this year. This is why
Walden wants to run when playing in our wind tunnel.

I can't believe you were freezing you butt off; the sun was out, and the wind
wasn't that bad. I wasn't all that cold, but I dressed for the occasion.

-- 
Joe Huber 
(jbhuber@iastate.edu)        | Capt. James T. Kirk on the 2nd law of thermo: 
Dept. of Mech. Egr.          |  "It's not a hundred percent efficient,
Iowa State University        |   but nothing ever is."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college