From: s8923098@macfie.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech
Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 03:54:46 GMT

In article <87833@netnews.upenn.edu> dww@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Michael DWC Wong) writes:
|In article <1992Sep3.022731.20269@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
    ......

|>intention to use military force (including nuclear weapons) to invade
|>Taiwan on the very minute that the Taiwanese people verbally declare
|>the independence of their nation.  The Chinese-cu have no notion of
|>the values conveyed in the Bill of Rights.  It's no surprise that the
|>the West formed Amnesty International, an organization based on principles
|>that are beyond the comprehension of most Chinese-cu.
|
|I think the babric actions of the Chinese Government is as a result of the
|communist totalitarian syatem and not so much as the CHinese culture.
|This is what happens in a un-democratic society ; the government can
|take advantage of its position to do whatever it wants.
|But a democratic government works only if the majority of the people are
|"educated" or can think critically. China, I believe, is not ready yet for

Before you guys go on further, please stop and think about what the 
Americans have done after WWII. Think about Vietnam and the invasion of
Panama. And in case you guys don't know, the CIA instigated the 
massacre against Chinese in Indonesia in 1965. The reason: to squash 
the southward thrust of communism, eventhough the CIA knew that number
communist sympathisers among the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia was very small
since the most Chinese were middle class and they controlled about 90%
of Indonesia's private sector. One CIA agent said that the view at that
time was that it was better to make sure that the whole flock vanish than
to let a few fish slip (Dwight 'Savage' Joe would be delighted at this).
The number of people slaughtered was mind boggling, one estimate put it a few
times the number of people who died in Vietnam. The canals in Jakarta and
other cities became the dumping ground of corpses which clogged the 
waterways, and when they started decomposing creating serious sanitary
problems. Until a few years ago when an ex CIA agent broke the silence,
the USA denied that it provided assistance and encouraged the massacre.
It was one of the CIA's success stories, the evil forces were squashed
and MacCarthyism preserved and basked in glorious victory.

So much for democracy.
 
    ......

|
|Take a look around the world....
|Atrocious and babaric acts are committed by everyone, every race; from
|the white poeple in Bosnia and Croatia (Killing babies in a bus) to
|Black people in Somalia (Civil war) to the Arabs in Iraq (Saddam Hussein).

And don't forget, also by white Americans in America and other countries.
How many blacks were slaughtered by the KKK in Mississipi? If we apply
Dwight 'Savage' Joe's logic, the world would be far better off if all
white Americans die.


|One thing common to all these cases is that those people all do not have
|a democratic government or are not yet ready for it.
|America is lucky to be blessed with a democratic governemnt.
|As Americans, you shpuld have compassion on other less fortunate individuals
|and not just condemn them outright because they do not have a democratic
|government.
 
Democracy helps but is no guarantee. Some of my relatives knew people 
who were slaugtered to help preserve American democracy and MacCarthyism
alive. Democracy can also breed individuals like Dwight 'Savage' Joe, who
given enough opportunity can create havoc. It has happened once in Germany
in 1940s.

     .....

|
|>We Americans must "teach" the Chinese-cu that they must respect the
|>rights and freedoms (including the right of self-determination) of 
|>people.  We must back up our commitment with the full arsenal of Western
|>and Northeast Asian military technical might.
|
     .........

|Using military force to teach other countries a lesson sounds pretty babaric
|to me. Maybe I could proceed to make a sweeping  generalisation           that western culture is
|babaric in that they favor "using force to teach lessons" since you
|claim you are full of that. But , unlike you, I would not since you are
|only an individual and very well a disgrace to Americans.

You should know better. Killing Chinese is not a barbaric or savage act
according to Dwight 'Savage' Joe since it will make the world that much
better off to live.

--
 _________Josef Widjaja____________  
|  s8923098@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au  |
|  Macquarie University, Australia | 
|__________________________________| 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean