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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:23:29 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2916
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                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2916

                        Wednesday, September 02, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 707

                  from the president of syntha-voice 3 of 4
                             Re: Speaking Eureka
                         comments from syntha-voice
                              Braille Printers
                          Re: Voice output on pc t
                           Voice Output on PC tied
                            Information Services
                                 Jaws Macros
                            Nfb Bbs Censorship??
                              Braille Printers


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: from the president of syntha-voice 3 of 4
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > If I have spent hundreds of dollars on a product, and I have a
 > problem, how would I feel if I called the manufacturer about this
 > problem, and could not get through because the lines were tied up by
 > people who did not purchase the product, or wanted Application
 > Program training over the phone.

All you have to do is make it abundantly clear to callers that (a)
you will >not< give applications training over the phone whether
they're registered or not, (b) create a demo disk with a time-out
timer that renders the system inoperative and even possibly removes
it from memory after a certain predetermined time period, and (c)
offer the same level of support to all callers and don't
discriminate between those with registration identification and
those without and leave it up to the usership to police
themselves.  If people like your product, whomever you are and
whatever product you have to offer, they'll pay for it--"build it,
and they will come".  If you give someone a good taste of what it
could be like owning and using your product, including a short demo
time period (either upon each running of the program or with, say,
a 15- or 30-day trial period of the software), people will register
it.  This is the D-Bridge concept, and it seems to work well for
him and his product (no comments about the product in general,
floks, just the philosophy, we're just talkin' philosophy of
support here, not product quality).  These are my thoughts.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203!Steve.Matzura
Internet: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Speaking Eureka
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Steve Richards to Keith Bucher 11 Aug 92 06:07:00

SR>  The Eureka does  have its good points.  Its word processing
SR> package is actually quite professional, although its starting
page number is limited to what can be stored in a byte register.

Hello Steve, and its memory is limited to fairly small files as well.
Maybe the worst thing about the word processor is that you're stuck
with what they want you to have, such as:  "Print this document, yes or
no?" And the upgrade model went even further and said something like
"Print the whole document, yes or no?"  And wonder if you still get
that noise out of the speaker when formatting a disk?  Now this is
one problem which was actually created by the upgrade.  Did they ever
fix the bug in the synthesizer or buffer, or whatever it was so that one
could read large text files? Of course with the limited memory, the file
couldn't actually be very big anyway.

SR> Its diary, clock and calendar functions
SR> work well, with a few minor glitches.

Seems as though I remember that the calendar didn't always recognize
leap years correctly, or something like that.

SR> and it's sound chip is superior to anything in a standard
computer.

Too bad the same thing can't be said about the synthesizer.  Boy
I'd love to have the opportunity of running "cannot.say,"
through that honey!  Remember the pitch control? It wouldn't really
speed up. When you raised the pitch it sounded sort of like playing a 45
record at 78. George Bell of Technovision Systems in England told me
that Americans were belly aching about the slow speed of the voice.  Of
course they fixed that to a fashon, but it sounds more excited like than
really fast. Nothing like other synthesizers I've heard.

 SR> On the negative side, the Eureka uses an obsolescent operating system,
 SR> and a hybridized version of it at that.  It isn't only incompatible
 SR> with MSDOS, it's not really compatible with true CP/M machines, either.

And to think we were told it would run dBase II, until we learned
otherwise.  And speaking of databases, why the one with the Eureka was
so limited is beond me.  What did it have?  5 or 6 fields?  And you
 could index only on two of them.  Certainly the word processor was
 much more sophisticated than the database.  Sure, they couldn't have
 incorporated dBase IV, but they could have done much better with it
 than they did.  I once had a database of 1200 records and something
 or other got messed up, and wow, it took forever to reindex it.
 Maybe you were here when that happened.  And although Adphone was
 small then, a little bit over 150 records or there abouts, you
 should have seen the problem I had when I sold the Eureka. Couldn't
 convert it to ASCII, or anything else for that matter. so I had to
 record the information on a tape recorder then type it back in to Q&A.
 What if I'd have still had the Eureka and by now I'd have to record
 several databases with literally hundreds of records.  Wow, that'd sure
 take a lot of cassettes!

SR> It costs a bundle, yet corners were cut in designing and
SR> manufacturing it.

Makes one wonder just how it merited the prestigious Winston-Gordon
award, doesn't it?  I sure wish I'd have kept that technical manual.
You know, the one it took nearly a year for us to finally receive?

SR> Its keyboard is one example, its glued-in battery that
SR> often comes loose is another.

How about the glued in speaker and adapter jack?  I use to correspond
with a gentleman from Canada who had a friend who took his Eureka to a
computer store and had his speaker glued back in place.

SR> The scientific calculator has many features, but it's tied to
the BASIC interpreter, with the inaccuracies common to BASIC.

You know Steve, seriously, I learned something from that little
bugger, I meant to say bug. Remember those magic numbers we used?  I
always think of trying them every time I hear about an MS-DOS based
calculator. It's ashame though, that they never corrected it.  Did they
even as much as acknowledge it?  You know Steve, this is the whole
problem with Robotron and the Eureka A4.  Even though it had more bugs
than a sunny evening in Florida, even though it had serious flaws and
design shortcuts, even though it is definitely overpriced, it is a good
 concept.  Try this one on for size.  Think of it.  A small 3 pound
 MS-DOS battery powered portable computer.  And sealed lead-acid battery
 at that.  No memory like nicads have.  No screen to get in the way or
 weigh it down.  Built in modem, floppy drive and hard drive.  And
 several megs of memory.  Why it would sell like Strohs in the desert!
 Ever see that tV commercial?  Sure, they probably couldn't have done it
 in 1986 or 87 when the Eureka was invented.  But look what it could
 have evolved into!  Just think what it could be today.  They never
 seemed to take the ball and run with it.  They stayed stagnant in many
 areas, just like a small stream in the dog days of summer.  Sure,
 nothing is, or probably will ever be perfect, but they seemed to think
 that the Eureka was the answer for blind people.  Look, Virginia, an
 adaptive computer, woopse, Electronic Secretary made just for you!
They never seemed willing to fix anything. They acted as if it was
 perfect, and any suggestions for improvement seemed to be taken as a
 personal attack on Milan.

SR> From what I hear it still is  occasionally prone to inexplicable
SR> crashes, losing or corrupting what's in memory despite the battery
SR> backup.

Hey, remember the virtual screen?  Sort of reminds me of the good old
days back at the Z&X ranch in the 1920's when I was breaking wild
horses.  It could throw you any time without any warning whatsoever!

SR> In my opinion the Eureka is more than a notetaker, but it is too
SR> limited to be an acceptable substitute for a computer, unless one's
SR> needs are simple.

Very, very, very simple.

SR> It costs more than many advanced computers,
SR> however, which makes it a poor choice for a portable companion
for taking notes and such.

Don't forget the modem.  If I'm not mistaken, you and Mort weren't even
able to get your Eurekas to communicate with each other via Mall Bell.
Did they ever get that turtle up to 1200 baud?  What!  You say they've
incorporated a USR dual standard, wow, well I'll be darn, ha ha.

SR> I'd buy one if it was, say, the price of the Braille and Speak.

Or did you mean the carrying case for the Braille 'N Speak?  (grins)
We can only hope that they've improved things in their OCR, which,
for those who may not know is called the TR320, I hope I have it
correct.  I believe you'd agree with me in being just a bit hesitant
about buying it.  I'd like to hear all about it, if anyone does
though.  Keith Bucher.

... If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy folks?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: comments from syntha-voice
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message of <14 Aug 92  02:20:04>, Gary Petraccaro (1:2610/12) writes:
 >    I don't agree that Paul should field questions here.  It will make
 >coming to this echo rather a stressful experience I suspect.  It has in
 >the past.  This especially happens when the psychically encumbered
 >participate in the questioning process.
 >

My response was to the person who wrote the letter. Supposedly he
is the president of Syntha-voice.  Why should it be any worse for
him to answer questions concerning his product than for Doug
Geoffray to answer questions about Vocal-eyes, Eric Bohlman to
answer questions about TinyTalk, or Jeff to answer questions about
Jaws.  It would seem better to encourage Syntha-Voice to answer
questions here and perhaps even to encourage them to get their bbs
attached to FIDO NEt than say that we are opposed to their
answering questions here.

        Sorry, I can't understand where you are coming from on this one.
        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Braille Printers
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

What is it you are wanting to do with your Braille printer.  What
are the main jobs that you do with it?

While the Blazer is a nice little printer, it is limited in speed
and may be too slow to use in a job situation if you need to do a
very large volume of Braille at all.  Given developments currently
taking place in the Braille printer industry I would think that
right now your best bet may be to take a close look at the Juliett
if you need something soon.  There is a good chance that a year
from now the Versa Point may not even be available any more.  The
Versa Point is an excellent printer and has a lot of features to be
desired, but the Juliett is almost exactly the same price, prints
at the same speed, and prints on both sides of the page, which
means lots less space taken up by Braille printouts and less cost
for Braille paper.

If you are not aware of it, you should know that the Blazer only
uses the narrower Braille paper.  For some people this is not a
problem, but for others they feel that it makes the printer more
limiting.

        D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Voice output on pc t
From: Tom.Gerhart@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 MS> I am trying to get some information on voice output on a PC
 MS> tied to a mainframe.  It was suggested to us to try McErma(sp?).
 MS> Does anyone have any information re either McErma or any others?
 MS> We are using a 3270 coax and are open to any board with a screen

Hello,
I am currently using a board from Avatar model G100 and their latest
software, it works well with both speech and a large print software all
running at the same time.  I do not have  the number for Avatar at home
but I will post it in a day or two. tom G.

... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!168!Tom.Gerhart
Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Voice Output on PC tied
From: Glen.Sepke@f2.n348.z1.fidonet.org (Glen Sepke)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:348/2 - Man-Net-EC, Winnipeg MB


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

TO: s@ecst.csuchico.edu (Mick Shatswell)
MS>I am trying to get some information on voice output on a PC
MS>tied to a mainframe.  It was suggested to us to try McErma(sp?).
MS>Does anyone have any information re either McErma or any others?
MS>We are using a 3270 coax and are open to any board with a screen
MS>reader.

Hi.
I am a mainframe applications programmer at a large insurance company,
and so have had some experience with this.

 Here's what I have successfully used.
 An emulator called AVATAR works fine.  It has its own card
 into which the coax connects.
 I have recently moved to a LAN connection to the mainframe and after
 much fooling around, got ERMA-LAN product to work.
 The fooling around involved mapping all the special keys because ERMA-LAN
 steals the normal interupts.

  In all cases I am useing a voice package called JAWS.
  If you need more info, or company names and details, let me know.
  The biggest prolem with 3270 emulators is that are usually
  programmed in a way that they take total control of the keyboard
  interupts, and the voice software can't get its greedy little hands in
  to do what it does best.
  Just as a note: I know noone who has gotten straight ERMA to work,
  and I think the IBM Screen Reader does work with the IBM 3270
  emulator.

   Hope this is of some help... Good Luck!!

    - Glen -
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X battery low battery low (That'll wake up the BNS users!)

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!348!2!Glen.Sepke
Internet: Glen.Sepke@f2.n348.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Information Services
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 RD>      I would like the pros and cons of some of the info services like
 RD> genie,
 RD> Delphi, America on line, videotext,....  Ever since I bought my new modem,
 RD> my
 RD> first actually, I've been getting these adds from various places.  I'm
 RD> interested in anyone's experience regarding utility, value, and speech
 RD> friendliness.  Although I prefer the smaller ones, information on the BIg
 RD> THREE
 RD> would also be appreciated.  What's good out there folks, and what's it good
 RD> for?

Well, I use genie, and I am very happy with it.  They have a low
monthly service for $4.95 a month, which entitles you too their
basic services during the hours of six p.m. to eight a.m. on week
days, and alday on week-ends.  This service covers a multitude of
boards, and news services, business services, the encyclopedia,
etc.  You may also have access to libraries of files, but this cost
extra.  You can download files for six dollars an hour during the
times for basic services.  If you get on the day time or as it is
called prime time, then the charge is eighteen dollars anhour, so
you stay off during that time unless you are rich.  I also forgot
as part of basic services, you can send unlimitted ge-mail to other
members, and when you post a letter to them, it will be in their
mail box within seconds from the time you ppost it, and this mail
is private, and even the genie employees can not read them.  Genie
is very speech friendly.  They also have an off line reader called
aladdin, which will allow you to  go on line during the basic
services time, and download all of your mail, and from the boards
you wish to attend, and then let you read it off line and reply to
it any time you wish.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Jaws Macros
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 SR> me.  But, in all honesty, if I ever abandon Flipper I imagine I'll
 SR> choose Vocal-Eyes, since Doug Geoffray's program is smaller and faster
 SR> than Jaws, yet as powerful as any screen reader around--except that it
 SR> doesn't use macros, of course.

Well, to me that does cut down on its power.  I have to aggree that
doug has a fine program as far as it goes.  Now, if he would only
add indexing to it, and tive a provision for the use of macros for
those of us who want to use them, and I don't mean with an outside
macro generator, then he would have maybe the best program out
there for now.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Nfb Bbs Censorship??
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 SR>I have experienced a growing
 SR> desire to become better informed, so that I might evaluate my own role
 SR> as a blind person, and what I can do and should do to be a part of the
 SR> solution to the problems blind people face rather than just a bystander.
 SR> I hope that doesn't sound pretentious, it isn't meant to be.

I think that you have the right idea.  It is better for you to
check it out for yourself.  If you talk to members of both
organizations, you will get conflicting stories;  however, you have
to weigh the information for yourself, and try to talk to people
that you know and can believe.

 SR> As a kid fresh out of high school I was a member of NFB, in part because
 SR> my school's Alumni Association was loosely affiliated with the
 SR> organization.  For instance the alumni convention dues included payment
 SR> of NFB membership.  How that originally came about I don't know.  A
 SR> couple years later I became actively involved in the fight to dissolve
 SR> the affiliation, for it seemed to me that the Alumni Association
 SR> shouldn't be, even semi-informally, part of either NFB or ACB.  The
 SR> fight was successful, but I never understood that there was more
 SR> involved in the battle until Durward McDaniel came from Washington D.C.
 SR> to observe the meeting where we voted to separate from NFB.

You were right.  I don't think that the alumni should be part of
either organization.  I know that our alumni here has members of
both organizations, and we try not to let the organization politics
take a part in the alumni.  I guess we are not always successful,
but I do think for the most part we do a good job with it.

 SR>A few years
 SR> after that I became active in the fledgling West Virginia chapter of
 SR> ACB, serving on its board of directors and chairing its resolutions
 SR> committee, things like that.  But when it came to locking horns with the
 SR> state legislature over issues concerning the blind of West Virginia the
 SR> chapter did virtually nothing, never taking an aggressive stance on
 SR> anything.  In frustration I eventually became a member-at-large of the
 SR> national organization.  That was a cop-out, I reckon.  Looking back on
 SR> those times, I realize that I was, for a time, as blindly loyal to ACB
 SR> as those in NFB are accused of being, and all because of what I had
 SR> heard, not what I had checked out for myself.

Well, it is too bad that you gave up the fight.  Why didn't you
continue the fight for what you believed like you did in the alumni
organization.

 SR>Fortunately ignorance is a curable condition.  What I'm
 SR> trying to do is dig up the truth.  I'm trying to get the facts behind
 SR> people's claims, to see if I can locate original Monitor or Forum
 SR> stories and such and read for myself what it's all about.  It's a tall
 SR> order, maybe even impossible.  But if I can succeed at all then I won't
 SR> be taking some stance or fighting some fight completely on hearsay.  Do
 SR> you have any ideas on tracking down stories and such, or do you think me
 SR> nuts?

Of course I do not think that you are nuts.  I don't know if it is
possible to track down those stories or not, but you might call the
ACB national office at (800) 424-8666 in the after noons between
the hours of 2:30 p.m. till about 5 P.M. edt, I think those hours
are close.  They do have a regular number that you can call
anytime, but that may be longdistance for you.  I don't know if
they can help you, but it might be worth a try, and I would assume
you also could call the NFB office, and maybe they could give you
early articles from their point of view.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Braille Printers
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 RC> I am presently in need of a new Braille printer at work.  My place of
 RC> employment
 RC> is, like a lot of others, tightening their belts as much as they can, but
 RC> my boss has told me that as far as a new printer goes,
 RC> they will buy one for me.  He also feels that both price and reliability,
 RC> from his point of view, are important considerations.  However, he is not
 RC> going to let price stand in the way of getting a good product.

 RC> I am trying to decide whether to go with the Versapoint from TSI or the
 RC> Braille Blazer from Blazie Engineering.  I have an older Versapoint
 RC> (purchased in 1986).  It has been a good printer, but it printed its last
 RC> dot a few weeks ago.  I have been happy with it, and I like dealing with
 RC> TSI.  They always seem to have good products that last.

 RC> I got a look at the Braille Blazer while I was at the ACB National
 RC> Convention this summer in Phoenix.  It prints at only about 15 CPS, but it
 RC> would work for
 RC> me on the job.  It is also about 1300 dollars cheaper than the newest
 RC> Versapoint.

 RC> Both printers have the features I am looking for.

Hi RAy, I hae a blazer, and I have had it for almost a year now,
but I don't do a lot of braille, since this is mypersonal
brailler.  One thing you have to remember is that the blazer only
brailles on narrow paper 11 inches wide, and the others can braille
on wide paper.  This is not a problem for me since most of my
brailling is for narrow paper.  Since you need it at work, I did
not know if this would be a problem for you.  The blazer is a small
brailler, and it is easy portable which is another plus for it.  It
is also user friendly.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




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