HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
From: scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)
Date: 13 Jul 92 19:53:53 GMT
Reply-To: scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <23528@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>
>I've given a reference to this event already. For your benefit, here it is
>again:
>
>"Kafr Kassem remembered", by T. Segev, Ha'aretz, 23/10/81. The event took place
>in 1956.

Well, perhaps.  And Jefferson kept slaves, too; the difference is that few
rational people use this as an argument with which to attack the current
government of the United States.

If you'd like your argument to stick, how about a contemporary example?



-- 
But you knew your figure cut a cipher/ Through every crafted plan/ And 
playing our game for real/ Saw through our plumbing jobs/ And wayward glands/
To a meaning of your own, in bones."  - Iain M. Banks, "Use of Weapons"
Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and may change without prior notice.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israel Cancels Building in the West Bank
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:32:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.173903.11971@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>What has Israel done? -- agreed not to build a number of settlement that
>weren't even started or weren't even contracted for yet and announced
>accelerated settlement in East Jerusalem!

Now that the settlement issue has been "won" by the Arabs, don't start
with "But it isn't significant, yet".  The Arabs have been clamoring 
that this was terribly important, with their best friend James Baker
calling settlements "the greatest obstacle to peace in the Middle East".
(Is this the same James Baker that shipped all those high-tech death-goodies
to Saddam?  And Israeli settlements are the greatest obstacle to peace???)

And I haven't heard anything about accelerated settlement in Jerusalem.

>How long will it be before the State Department realizes that the
>history of Israel has been one of a blodthirsty nation bent on
>territorial conquest (can you say "Lebanon", boys and girls? or Gaza? or
>the Golan Heights? or the West Bank? or Jerusalem? or the land seized in
>the '48 war?)?

Typical Brad/Ali Hernlem.  TPM regulars are used to this stuff.

>Syria has done, unilaterally I might add, what Israel has screamed
>should be done for so long -- disarmed the Palestinian fighters in
>Lebanon and brought "peace" to the bulk of Lebanon. Let's see a little
>give from the Israelis in response to this action; perhaps at least
>ceasing its bombardment of villages and attacks outside of its "security" zone.

So Syria is given a free hand in putting down the Palestinean Intifada in 
Lebanon and Brad cheers them on, only to change the tune when Israel takes 
the slightest action in dealing with IT'S Intifada.  More Brad/Ali 
even-handedness.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.limbaugh,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:11:52 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

> You appear to be avoiding the question.  How many Jews have been killed
> BY A ROCK BEING HURLED AT THEM?
> 
> And while you're at it, how often should such deaths happen before it
> would, in your opinion, be appropriate to refer to stones as "deadly
> weapons"?  Also, give us an estimate of how many stones have been thrown
> at people in the occupied territories during the period in which the
> Jewish deaths you list have occurred.  For reference, you might wish to
> compare the dangers of being attacked by such a stone to those of being
> shot, just so we can put it all in prespective
> --
To place it in perspective, thing of David and Goliath. Rocks are deadly.

              ==========================================
                | We want to be troubled no more by Arabs;|
                |          room to breathe;               |
                |    a skyline cleansed of them           |
                |                                         |
                |      Franz Kafke, Jackals and Arabs     |
                ===========================================
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad and Ajami (Khomeinism)
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:50:58 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
>
>David, you haven't really been on this newsgroup very long so you 
>probably don't have any idea what the history behind my putting
>Jaber in my kill file.  Furthermore, you have completely *mischaracterized*
>the nature of Jaber's post.  It was three or four lines of assertions
>about Ajami, and about three or four *paragraphs* of unsubstantiated,
>nonsensical hyperbole about me.  

	Once again Mr Anwar Mohammad who have accused me by hating the 
	Kuwaitis for no reason. I have stated many times that I have
	nothing  to gain or loose from hating or loving the Kuwaitis.
	I have came a cross many honourable Kuwaitis who deserve all 
	respect and are highly respectable even though I disagreed with 
	them.

	The point I have raised about the author Fuad Ajami that he is 
	not an Arab and I refered to his own words in the New Republic.
	You can confirm my claims by giving him a ring to where he works
	in D.C and ask him about his Persian origin.
	Anwar insisted on calling Fuad Ajami an Arab which is not true
	and as he said he likes Ajami and his views.

	Ajami has admitted his pro-Khomeinist views and what I am
	questioning is if Anwar entertains those views that Ajami
	entertain about Khomeinism and Iran.

	I am raising this issue becasue I am aware that Anwar is from
	the Shia sect in Kuwait and this group has been known for its
	loyalty to Khomeini and we all remeber the Attacks by
	Khomeinists on Western Embassies in Kuwait.

	This is a valid issue that Anwar should address. Anwar is taking
	the opportunity that relations between Iraq and Kuwait are low
	now and trying to show Al-Sabah that he is Pro-Emir by barking
	anti-Iraqi propaganda while he is entertaining his
	Pro-Khomeinist ideas with his friend Ajami. 

	The thing that Anwar is not aware of is that he cannot be both 
	loyal to Khomeinism and the Emir of Kuwait regardless of the
	fact that Iran and Kuwait are now at better terms but this is
	due to the fact that they are both doing this agaisnt Iraq and 
	not for the love of each other.

	All the above was concluded from the fact that Anwar did not
	respond to my claims by reason but rather by calling me names 
	as dogs and cats, this is a very typical Khomeinist approach.


A Jaber

>-- 
>Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
>anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
>Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
>Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad and Ajami (Sternlight)
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:42:43 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
>
>The notion that Fuad Ajami is a non-Arab Khomeinist is ludicrous. I 
>agree anyone who has read his stuff or heard him on PBS and elsewhere
>knows that isn't so.

	This is not from my imagination.  Fuad Ajami himself confessed
	of his Persian (Iranian) origin and how he feels about it in
	an article published in the New Republic about the collapse
	of Arab Nationalism. This article aws published last year in 
	the New Republic after the end of the Gulf War.

	Read it and see for yourself!!!

>From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
>
>Those who are surprised by the discussion between Jaber and Mohammed,
>in which Jaber makes some (incorrect) assertions about Ajami, and
>Mohammed reacts somewhat strongly (his language verges on flaming
>and he ends up putting Jaber in his kill file), are seeing some
>typical Inter-Arab political discussion. Actually, for the genre,
>Jaber is positively inoffensive, and Mohammed somewhat mild.

	Before you go on about the incorrect assertions about Ajami
	as not being an Arab I refer you to his own articles which
	I mentioned above.


A Jaber
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ISRAEL JOINS THE CIVILIZED WORLD
From: scott@anasaz (Scott Gibson)
Date: 15 Jul 92 19:09:56 GMT
Reply-To: scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson)
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <1992Jul9.192604.11588@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>This is a joke, right?  Sounds like the equivalent of what my
>kid does when I say things he doesn't like (puts his hands over
>his ears and refuses to respond).

No; actually this sounds like us treating ARF exactly like you
ought to treat your kid when he puts his hands over his ears and
refuses to respond.  We're ignoring him, and encouraging you to 
do the same.

>We're jackasses enough spend-
>ing our time reading netnews without pretending that we can
>censor away people who offend us.

Who asked for him to be censored?  We're exercising our right to
point out what a dishonest bigot he is.  I like his posts, because
any bigot with even a shred of honesty, decency, and self respect
would have trouble swallowing his tripe.  I just get annoyed by 
seeing other people try to argue with him; this was long ago
proven a waste of time.



-- 
But you knew your figure cut a cipher/ Through every crafted plan/ And 
playing our game for real/ Saw through our plumbing jobs/ And wayward glands/
To a meaning of your own, in bones."  - Iain M. Banks, "Use of Weapons"
Scott Gibson                   {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!qip!scott
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own, and may change without prior notice.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:37:42 GMT

In article <Bs98nE.6sw@wpi.WPI.EDU>, nyh@fledgling.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
> In article <1992Jul30.194306.23245@ncsu.edu> odkahn@eos.ncsu.edu
(Opher D. Kahn) writes:
> 
> >I will first state that I would gladly see Saddam go.  BUT:
> >
> >Let's imagine a slightly different scenario.  Lets say the US did not
> >have veto power in the UN security council, and all the other countries
> >decided they want to eliminate the terrible threat of nuclear war by
> >disarming the U.S.  Don't you think more than a few Americans would rise
> >in protest if UN and perhaps Russion and Chinese representatives wanted
> >to gain entry to federal buildings in D.C. and search for evidence of the
> >U.S.'s weapons programs???  I know I would.  The fact that some majority
> >or powerful portion of the U.N. decided they have the right to do with
> >Iraq as they please does not have to satisfy the Iraqi people!
> 
> > Opher D. Kahn 
> 
> 
> 	Mr. Kahn forgets one thing.  Iraq lost a war it started.  The
> disarming is part of the cease fire agreements.  If U.S. would have
> lost  a war to China - China will disarm the Americans - like it or
> not.
> 
> I think it's fair...

Mr. Hed forgets one thing. The weapons information that is being sought
had nothing to do with the official reason for the war; to get Iraq out
of Kuwait.

When you've got a gun to someone's head you can make them sign anything.
Such agreements are not usually binding in civil law, at least. Have we
already forgotten the lessons of World War I or are Iraqis simply not
human enough to be considered on that level?

Quite honestly I was shocked to see your name associated with this post,
Nevo. It's not a forgery is it?

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: ereiss@ocf.berkeley.edu (Edward Reiss)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:44:11 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <24302@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.203140.10669@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>=>[...]  Muppet man [...]
>Not sharing Jake's expertise in juvenilia, I'm mildly curious as to
>how I have earned this strange appellation. Care to enlighten us?
>=>Phill Hallam-Baker
>-Jeremy Henderson        egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk   

This is just a guess: You are a staggeringly incompetent debater
who adds offensive and adolescent remarks to his posts in order 
to attract the attention of others (the goal of all children).

Ed Reiss
ereiss@berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:05:42 GMT

In article <22027@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.215254.16589@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>
>> In article <1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>> >In article <1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>> >>
>> >>	Stone dead is rather similar to bullet dead - inciting is not
>> >>known to be a cause for an attempted murder.
>> >>
>> >Exactly HOW MANY Israeli's have been killed by a rock's being hurled
>> >at them???  I can tell you that more the 1000 Palestinians have
>> >ben killed since the Intifada.
>>
>> Approximately 100 Jews have been killed in the Intifada.
>
>You appear to be avoiding the question.  How many Jews have been killed
>BY A ROCK BEING HURLED AT THEM?

No, you're merely promulgating the same false premise as the original
question, which is that every one of the Palestinians killed during the 
intifada was killed because s/he was throwing rocks.  Given that 40-45%
of the Palestinian deaths during the intifada were political killings of
Palestinians by other Palestinians, and the fact that these last are the
majority in the last two years, the fallacy is obvious.

>And while you're at it, how often should such deaths happen before it
>would, in your opinion, be appropriate to refer to stones as "deadly
>weapons"?  

you're begging the question.  Projectiles can be deadly weapons, and a
policeman or private citizen standing unarmed with a hail of 1-3 pound
rocks being aimed in his/her general direction definitely will feel that
his/her life is in danger.  Now, what do you know about how police are
trained, Yigal?  

>Also, give us an estimate of how many stones have been thrown
>at people in the occupied territories during the period in which the
>Jewish deaths you list have occurred. 

You're getting facetious, of course.

> For reference, you might wish to
>compare the dangers of being attacked by such a stone to those of being
>shot, just so we can put it all in prespective

Are bullets more deadly?  of course they are.  So what are you
suggesting, Yigal?  Should IDF border police be armed only with
slingshots and small stones?

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The Alarming Facts"
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 00:01:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul14.233241.18063@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1992Jul13.195036.16437@anasaz> scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson) writes:
>
># In article <1992Jul7.235518.7804@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
># >Criticizing Israel for not acting like Kansas or Denmark while Israel 
># >is actually forced to deal with the likes of Arafat, Assad and Saddam 
># >is stupid, if not biased.  Feh.
> 
># Oh.  The "ends and the means" argument.
>
>	This is just using a cliche for demagoging with a straw man
>argument.  That is not the argument at all.
>
>	The point is that to survive in a rough neighborhood it is
>certainly acceptable to adopt some (but not all) behaviors which in
>other neghborhoods would not be acceptable.  It depends on the
>circumstances.  If you believe otherwise you are either a pacifist
>(which is your right, but you cannot demand this of others), or you
>have a sheltered life.

Thank you, David, for responding to Scott's Followup.
I haven't been able to do so because my site still hasn't 
received his followup posting nor, apparently, other postings.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Hezbollah Evacuate Sheikh Abdallah Barracks
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:07:13 GMT


reposted from soc.culture.iranian (thanks to Amir Taghavi):

        BAALBECK, Lebanon (UPI) -- Pro-Iranian Hezbollah guerrillas Wednesday
evacuated their Lebanese headquarters -- a base where numerous Western
hostages are believed to have been held in the past.
        Witnesses said Hezbollah guerrillas and some 200 Iranian
Revolutionary Guards pulled out tanks, other vehicles and large
quantities of weapons from the Sheikh Abdallah barracks, a former
Lebanese army base Hezbollah had seized in 1983. The facility is located
52 miles east of Beirut.
        Hezbollah relinquished the base as part of a 1990 agreement that
ended Lebanon's 16-year civil war. The agreement called for the Lebanese
army to regain control over all structures seized by various factions
during the war.
        Hezbollah was the last major militia to turn over its headquarters.
The Lebanese army already has evicted Christian, Shiite and Sunni
militias from their respective bases.
        Military sources said the army planned to quickly take over the
Sheikh Abdallah barracks, which once housed as many as 1,500 Iranian
Revolutionary Guards, who were brought in to train guerrillas for
attacks on Lebanese and Israeli targets.
        French warplanes bombed the site several times in 1983, after a
Hezbollah suicide bomber killed 51 French paratroopers in Beirut.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Palestinians criticize Demo platfor
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:16:42 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: adam@endor.uucp's message of 23 Jul 92 18:19:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.181916.23851@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:
>
> In article <1483500291@igc.org> awair@igc.org (Arab World and Islamic Resources) writes:
> >From: Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair>
> >Subject: Palestinians criticize Demo platform
> >PALESTINIANS CRITICIZE SUPE OVER PLATFORM
> >by John Roemer
> >
> >Reprinted from SF WEEKLY, July 15, 1992, p.6-7.
> >
> >The platform is also unprecedented in calling for Jerusalem to be
> >the capital of Israel rather than Tel Aviv.  Palestinians find
> >that position unacceptable because they live in half of the city
> >which rests in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
>
> Thats not unprecedented in the least.  Besides, the Keneset, and other
> government buildings are all in the "Western" part of the city.  A
> country could recognize this without recognizing Israel's claim on the
> formerly occupied parts of the city.

The Knesset building is indeed located in the western part, where it was
built before 1967.  The rest of what Mr. Shostack says on this subject
is not correct, though.  The Israelis have made a point of moving many
government buildings and offices to the eastern part of the city since
1967.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:11:53 GMT


   While it is true that Sadam Hussein deserves to die a slow and
painful death, the people of Iraq have suffered enormously.  What
I would like to see done is Sadam Hussein executed, to give these
poor people a chance to create their own government.  I would not
object to nuking Sadam Hussein!
-- 
"The tree of liberty must occasionally be nourished by the blood
of tyrants and of patriots."                    Thomas Jefferson
"Hello? Information?  Would you please give me the home phone of
Pat Buchanan?...Yes.  His address as well, thank you very much."
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:18:06 GMT
	<1483500289@igc.org> <1992Jul25.173518.11116@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 25 Jul 92 17:35:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.173518.11116@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>
> In a previous article, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) says:
>
> >In article <1992Jul23.214038.479@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
> >>
> >> There's a difference between dealing with Nazis and colluding with them.
> >> I've heard some Palestinian Arabs claim that Shamir was effectively
> >> negotiating with the PLO terrorists, but I haven't heard of them believing
> >> that he was colluding with THEM!
> >
> >As I've already pointed out, the only thing that saved Shamir from
> >collusion with the Nazis was that the latter were not interested.
> >Shamir, for his part, offered to fight on the Nazi side in the war.
>
> As has been pointed out by others, the dealings Shamir had with the Nazis
> were in an attempt to save Jewish lives from the Nazis, something you in
> your self-hating neuroses choose to ignore.

Bullshit.  Nobody can show that Shamir's dealings with the Nazis were
for a reason even remotely resembling what you say.  Shamir himself does
not claim so -- and he's around, and has been asked numerous times.  No
known communication Shamir and his group had with the Nazis at the time
mentions any desire to "save Jewish lives".

You're just making this up.  Lying.

If you have proof -- let's see it.

If you don't -- one can only speculate about what kind of self-hating
neuroses would cause a Jew like yourself to repeatedly come to the
defense of someone who voluntarily offered to fight on the side of the
Nazis.  Do you, too, support "the establishment of the historical Jewish
state on a national and totalitarian basis, which will maintain contacts
with the German Reich", for the purpose of "strengthening and protecting
the German power posts ... in the Near East"?
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast