HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbadner@world.std.com (JA Badner)
Subject: Making the first appoarch (Was Re: Poetic Gifts)
Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 00:38:34 GMT

I've never been diagnosed as autistic (as some you may know, my niece
is autistic) but...

When I was a baby, I wouldn't let anyone other than my mother hold me
and that was mainly for breastfeeding.  My father says I first smiled
at him when I was 7 months old.  I was painfully shy as a child and
even now I have trouble in social situations.  I very rarely make
the first approach and I have trouble making conversation when there
are two or more people present (I have no trouble with one person if
I'm comfortable with that person).  I also tend to assume I'm not 
invited into a social situation unless it is made explicit.  Now
all this is complicated by my dwarfism and people's reaction to it
but I was painfully shy even before I knew about my dwarfism.  Also,
most other people with dwarfism that I know do not have the same
problem with shyness.  In addition, I didn't talk until I was 3.
At first, I was diagnosed as mentally retarded, than a hearing
problem was found.  Since then, I've received a BS from MIT, an
M.D. and Ph.D from University of Pittsburgh, and am in a Psychiatry
residency at a Harvard Medical School hospital.

I see a lot of similarities between my niece and myself in terms of
personality although she has clearly autistic characteristics 
(echolalia, perservation, pronoun reversal, rituals, etc) that I
never had.

Judy


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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:27:38 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "Dan M." <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CREATIVE DRAMA

Hi Erica.  I think play therapy has been used with autistic children. There
are probably people on this list who can expand on that more.  One
problem we have had with doing pretend stuff with Alex is his complete
lack of interest in imaginitive/pretend play -- and his difficulty in
even understanding the pretend play of his brother and the fact that it
is *pretend*.  Simon will say he is a crocodile and Alex will get upset
because SImon is clearly *not* a crocodile.  Simon's explanation, "I
am only pretending I'm a crocodile" does not suffice.

Dan
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:41:13 BST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "(Lyle Lexier)" <lexier@SFU.CA>
Subject:      Kanner's syndrome
              "IP15217@PORTLAND.BITNET" at Sep 23, 92 3:43 pm

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to have Kanner's syndrome and be high-functioning?  I was
autistic from birth, slow start (e.g. in learning to walk, being toilet trained,
not talking until the age of 5 etc.), but now I run, talk too much, am over-
friendly, and besides I go to university in Computing Science and Mathematics,
drive a car, taught myself piano & guitar, speak three other languages other
than English, etc.

Is it possible that I have Kanner's syndrome since my autism started from
birth?

Talk to you later,
   Lyle
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Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:30:12 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Facilitated Communication Question

Ray,

As you know, I know little about the process of facilitation - all I really
know about is what 'being autistic means' and I've had a reasonable amount
of success in raising autistic children and dealing with their problems along
the way...... some I must admit I've had more success with than others. My
opinions on FC are based on my intimate knowledge of how autistic people
react in certain situations and their peculiar language problems. I think I
really need to know what is involved in FC, before I say anymore. Currently
it appears that there are certain people trained(?) to do the facilitating.
Is that correct? Is there any reason why the person facialitating the child
couldn't be someone who already has the child's confidence and who the child
already feels relaxed with? Is the facilitation equipment so expensive that
it is only viable in an educational setting? Is the keyboard much different
from standard keyboards? Does the child have to know how to read before it can
be used? If so, what methods are being used to teach the child to read before
facilitation is tried? How do they test a non-verbal child's ability to read
and/or comprehend?

I have lots more questions, but if I presented them all at once, I'm afraid
I might be straining the friendship. :-)

Helen, also, seems sometimes to enjoy being tested... as she did with Dr.
Fenelon.... but only when she thinks it's a game and she knows most of the
right answers but she will quickly abandon it if she finds out that she is
getting wrong answers. One of her favourite TV shows is 'Sale of the Century'
- of course she doesn't know any of the answers to the questions, instead
she demands that we watch it with her and then she keeps tally of our responses
exclaiming at the end that "Mum's the winner!" - so she appears to enjoy
testing others as well. At her age I don't forsee any problems with school
testing procedures.... Chris didn't have any difficulties at this age either.
His  problems with tests really became apparent as he got older and started
getting tested on work that was more challenging to him... that's when the
problems with exams first started showing up..... difficulty with time limits;
interpreting  questions correctly; written language expression and handwriting
increased his stress levels to a point that he became almost totally
non-functional under such situations. I also had this problem at high school -
for three years in a row, I was diagnosed as having Rubella the day before an
English exam until everyone woke up to the fact that it was just a 'nerve rash'
brought on by stress..... at least it got me out of lots of exams. :-) My
children unfortunately didn't have such a complaint physiology.

Carolyn
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:41:14 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CREATIVE DRAMA

Lots of so-called speech therapy with autistic children is really 'play
therapy,' modelling the use of toys, modelling pretending etc.  However,
I doubt that this is the kind of play therapy Erica was referring to.
Lack of pretend play is one of the sixteen "symptoms" or characteristics
of autism, as defined by the DSM IIIr (whatever you think of that.)

My four year old son began using pretend play totally on his own this summer,
and since that time we have been able to build on it and expand it. However,
until a child is interested in doing it ("gets it" if you will) I think you'll
get either confusion or the kind of upset that Dan M.describes for Alex.
It obviously goes with the literalness of many autistic people.

If a child doesn't get the pretending, it's hard to see what benefit the play
therapy would have.  But if he does get it, I can see it being useful in terms
of facilitating play with normally developing peers.  This seems especially
true in preschoolers (around four and five) when fantasy play becomes very
important.
Lisa
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:28:56 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Auditory Training
              at Sep 30, 92 11:55 am

Wendy,
   Can you explain more about the Auditory Training ... what
are they training and how? The results sound impressively
practical and useful.

       Anne
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Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:43:47 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Facilitated Communication Question

Sorry people! My spelling isn't really that bad.... I meant 'compliant
physiology' of course.

Carolyn
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:03:26 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Making the first appoarch (Was Re: Poetic Gifts)

 <jbadner@WORLD.STD.COM> writes:

>LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU writes:

I'm autistic, Judy! If you keep it this formal, I'll get the impression that
you don't want to be my friend. You wouldn't want that, would you? :-)

>>So Judy, why did you go away for so long? :-)
>
>Because I didn't have anything important to say :-).  Seriously, that is
>definitely true with me.  I don't make "small talk" (my size
>notwithstanding).  I also tend only to speak up if the point I have to
>made is important AND no one else has expressed it.  So, unless I have
>a unique contribution to make, I tend to stay silent (in verbal and
>electronic forums).

If my memory serves me correctly, you stated once that you weren't autistic,
would you like to reconsider that statement? :-) It is these types of attitudes
and behaviours that put us in this category - separate from the normal types -
autism is a way of thinking and of being.... not a conglomeration of symptoms
of 'weird' behaviours for which you must have x out of a list of y to be
officially diagnosed as such by the current procedures.

I've recognised so much 'autism' in the postings on this list by parents of
autistic children, that if I didn't read any of the other newsgroups, I would
begin to think that we were normal and 'normal' was the minority group.....
unfortunately this isn't the case. I don't mean it's 'unfortunate' that I am
autistic.... I wouldn't choose to be any other way.... it's 'unfortunate' that
we are still a minority group, is what I meant.

You can stay a 'closet autistic' if you like - I'll still talk to you. You
can't hide the way you think. :-)

Carolyn
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:00:12 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Daniel Mont <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Facilitated Communication Question
              1 Oct 1992 07:04:09 EDT from <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>

In an earlier posting I mentioned that Alex enjoys testing a great deal.
I asked the few other parents:teachers I know of HFA children and found
they felt the same way.  Maybe lower functioning children are different.

I understand the need for sensitivity and appropriate testing.  But I
am at a loss to understand the strength of the reaction to testing
if techniques are developed in conjunction with parents, teachers, and
other professionals who are concerned with the child's well-being
over the research findings.  And any researcher worth his/her salt would
not want to devise a test that harmed or upset the child.  Apart from
personal considerations, it would undermine the validity of the research.

Maybe if my personal experience with researchers was different I would
understand the intense fear that some people have.  However, I see little
difference between the people who don't think F/C should be tried because
it might upset the child and parents and those people who think F/C should
be tried but not tested because it may upset the child or parents.  It
seems both people are blocking access to a potentially very helpful approach.

In my mind it is not the IF, but the HOW.
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:16:00 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Feeling left out.

Ray,

This describes Helen and myself (mainly as a child but I still find there
are times that I 'fence-sit' awaiting an invitation to join in something and
get depressed if it isn't forthcoming), as well.

>   As for kids caring if they are noticed or picked for different issues
>I think that people have it wrong in many cases.  My daughter has been
>described like this too, but if you look into her eyes and watch her
>expressions and body language you can find it is very important to her.
>She wants to be wanted in situations like that, she may not join in, some
>things are just too hard for her, but it's important to her that people
>want her to join in.

When we went on that school excursion to Blackbutt Nature Reserve, during the
lunch break the teachers took a small group of children each to play games.
As each group followed its teacher to a corner of the playground, Helen was
left standing in the middle of the field on her own. From where I was sitting
I could see what the problem was..... no-one had said "Come with us!". She
stood there for about a minute and I was just about to get up and go to her
when she turned and came running back to me and buried her head in my shoulder.
It turned out that she was convinced that nobody wanted to play with her. I
took her over near the group on the pretence that I was going to play with
her but as we got close the teacher spotted us and asked Helen to join in.
Without a moment's hesitation she ran up to the other children and joined in
their circle. I stayed there watching her until she was given a turn as the
'Father Cat'...she was so happy when she was the only one who caught the
'runaway kitten'.

This sort of thing happens all the time. It happens at the parties she goes
to and in the school playground. Unless someone approaches her and asks her
to play with them, she stays on the fringe watching the other children play.
Chris was the same at her age.

I really can't understand why we can't bring ourselves to make the first
approach...... I wonder if it is a 'fear of rejection' that holds us back.
That would really be a strange one, since usually we act like we don't care
what other people think of us. Could this be a form of 'ego protection'?

Carolyn
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:20:25 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         diana biddle <6751B004@KENTVM.BITNET>

Wendy,

I read your note on your stepson with Autism and it was very promising.  I
have an interest in learning more about Autism and I'm glad the experimental
program worked.  It's ashame, on one hand, that it took until the age of 23 to
see some improvement for Gene, but on the other hand, 23 is such a young age.
He has his whole life to continue to work, take walks by himself and to be
able to enjoy his family like he should.

From what I know, Autism seems to make the individual very private.  Every-
thing is kept inside.  I don't know if that is because they feel they can't
express themselves, they don't want to for some reason, or they really want
to and there body and mind tells them otherwise.

All the sweet, simple sounds and smells in this world "hurt" Gene and it's
nice to see that through the experimental work in Oregon, he has make it
possible for doctors, therapists and clinicians to gain information to help
others.

My name is Diana biddle and I would like to hear more information on what
exactly the auditory training was.

I'll be anxious to hear more about the training.

Thanks,

Diana
6751b004
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:40:03 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Facilitated Communication Question

John,
   I agree with most of what you say and I think that your methods sound
like they take most things into consideration.  There are some issues about
a test situation that I still would like to get some opinions on from
autistics themselves to see if the testing situation is a stress unto
itself that may be too much for many autistics.
   Either way I agree it needs to be done.

   Your last statement about FC standing up even in a judiciary case
say nothing about the scientific case is a little confusing to me.  What
allows evidence and other types of testimony to stand up in a court is that
they are scientifically proven or proffesionally accepted technique that
has widespread acceptance.  This is the exact reason why FC isn't being
accepted because the scientific community has neither proven or disproved
FC to the extent that is necessary.  So when we see it tested and proven
that's when I think it may get accepted or not.  I tend to think what we
will see happen is that FC will be found to be meaningful for some people,
it appears like many, but who knows.  Also hopefully we will realize that
many things come into play besides the spoken word (or typed word).  This is
where the physchology comes into to see if the child would have reasons for
speaking untruths or relay something that they may have mis-interpreted.

   I get upset at thinking that someday these tests will rule whether
it is valid or not on an en-mass degree and then even if it might not
work for everyone the ones that it will work for also lose out.  I thnk
like John Wobus mentioned it needs to be almost an individual testing
to see if it is working for each individual child not an entire group.
That way we don't eliminate it as a source for some that might be able
to use it.

   Some of your suggestions for testing seemed to infer this, so I don't
think we're that far off in our thinking.

   One thing I would like to know is what your experience with autistics
is.

Thanks,
Ray Kopp
Syracuse, New York
Internet:rjkopp@mailbox.syr.edu
Bitnet:RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:46:00 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Poetic gifts

Hi Wendy!

Guess what! You appear to read poetry exactly the way that I do...... for the
music of the language and the visual images that it provokes.

During my last two years at high school, one of the topics in English was
"Poetry Appreciation" - that I would have enjoyed - but a more appropriate
name would have been "Poetry Depreciation". Each week we were given a piece
of poetry and were required to 'analyse' it. After four weeks of handing in
papers with answers like "How do I know what the poet was thinking of? I'm
sure he wrote it for me to 'feel' not pull it apart to work out its meaning!";
"I like this poem it gave me good feelings."; or "I don't like this poem it
depresses me.", the English Master finally gave up and told me that if I
wasn't going to do the assignments properly then I shouldn't do them at all...
so I didn't. He kept constantly reminding me though that unless I 'learnt'
how to answer poetry questions properly, I would fail English in my finals.
Well, I didn't fail the final English paper but neither did I do the poetry
question on it..... my luck was in that day there was a choice of doing either
a 'poetry question' or a 'novel question' and of course I chose the latter.
The English Master just couldn't believe my luck. :-)

One of the few poems that 'mean' anything to me is Lewis Carroll's
"Jabberwocky". Evidently I have a mind that makes sense out of nonsense. :-)

Carolyn
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:23:57 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Lurking, but not forgetting

Things have been wonderfully hectic and I have not been posting much, but
I notice the discussion involving empathy.  In March and April of 1991
there was a discussion on empathy and autism which was started by a post
by Jim Sinclair on Altlearn@sjuvm.  I have compiled that discussion and
it is now on the Autism filelist, along with Jim Sinclair's description
of Social Signal Dogs (guide dogs for the developmentally disabled).  If
you are interested send mail to listserv (a tell message if you are on
Bitnet) with the request: send empathy discuss   or send ssigdog sinclair
for the files.  The empathy discussion is over 1200 lines, so be careful
if you have quota problems.

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:17:34 PDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         maxwell_gwynn@CSUFRESNO.EDU
Subject:      mailing list?

To whom it may concern:
I saw a listing of the PSYCGRAD list on email.  Is it possible for
non-Ottawa U researchers to be added to the emailing list?  If so,
please add my name:
maxwellg@zimmer.csufresno.edu.bitnet
Thanks for your help!
P.S. I'm a Carleton Grad now doing a post-doc at Cal State Fresno.
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:02:06 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         The Salacious Employer of Dubious Verbiage
              <MONCRIET@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: address wanted

I am doing research on social intelligence, and one of the tests we are
using is the Interpersonal Perception Task (my advisor's test) (Costanzo
and Archer, 1989 Journal of Nonverb Behav.)

It is a video in which several scenes are shown, and subjects must use
verbal and nonverbal cues to figure out the relationships between
the actors.  I.e. there's a scene with two women and a child and they
have to figure out who the mother of the child is.

The video is available from UCBerkeley's audio/visual centre, and
there are instructions for using it.  After watching the scenes, the
subjects must answer a multiple choice question, and estimate their
confidence that the answer is correct.  Traditionally, women score
higher than men, but in my skewed sample (upper division white
middle class isolated-living-on-campus psychology students at Claremont
McKenna College) there were _no_ sex diffs.  We were dissappointed.
However, everyone else who uses it usually finds those differences,
it may be that our subjects have biases we were not aware of, but
are interesting nonetheless.

Hope this helps!!

Trace


Tracy J. Moncrief
Moncriet@cgsvax.claremont.edu

"The difference between a prejudice and a conviction is that you can explain
a conviction without getting mad"			Lawrence Peter
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