HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za (AK MARQUARD)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:17:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.130235.10195@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
>Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 13:02:35 GMT
>poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za (AK MARQUARD) writes:
>
>[on Cobbing's young turk theory of the Mfecane]
>
>I'm happy to debate Cobbing, but some other time. In that
>debate consensus or representativeness is irrelevant, which
>is why I quote Peires and Saunders.
>
>However, the original claim, that Shaka mobilised AGAINST
>Europeans, is transparently crap, with or without Cobbing.
>
>Gavan Tredoux
>(in the trenches at) UCT
No-one ever claimed that Shaka mobilised against Europeans, only that the 
socio-economic processes at the time when "shaka" (whoever or whatever he 
was) existed had a lot more to do with Europeans than had previously been 
supposed. This does not necessarily imply that the Zulu state was a 
defensive unit against slavers etc. at all, but merely that the forces
shaping it did not originate in isolation of colonialism and slavery 
activities in other parts of the Southern African social formation. The 
question of Saunders and Peires is very relevant, as Saunders' 
article was portrayed as a critique of Cobbing - the legitimacy of this 
claim hinges in its representativeness of the content and process of the 
conference. To get vack to the original issue, most of the dramatic 
material in Shaka Zulu has been shown (and this has been agreed on, even by 
more conservative historians), to be historically groundless, and what is 
more significant, to be part of a popular (that is amongst particularly 
white youth) mythology (see history text books at school level) about Shaka 
and the Mfecane. What is clear then, is that the series promoted this 
mythology, which obviously is part of a larger discourse about ethnicity and 
conflict in South Africa which has important ramifications for the current 
situation.

Andrew Marquard, Rhodes University

Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5145 rec.aviation:16488 rec.travel:14127
From: castanos@wam.umd.edu (Jose Alberto Castanos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,rec.aviation,rec.travel
Subject: Helicopter rental rates in Nigeria needed
Keywords: Helicoter rental rates Nigeria
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:21:38 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park



Hello,

    One of my co-workers needs rates for helicopter rental in Nigeria.
If anyone has such info available or knows where/how I could get it, please
respond as this info is urgently needed.  If there is a more adequate group 
for this posting, please accept my apologies and let me know.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jose A. Castanos       | Computer Science Dept. |"If a person never contradicts
(castanos@wam.umd.edu) | University of Maryland | himself, it must be that he 
                       | College Park, MD       | says nothing." -M. de Unamuno
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5236 sanet.talk.politics:73
From: gram@aim1.aztec.co.za (Graham Wheeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: ANC Leadership Wanes
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:03:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: aim1.gram.718916620
Organization: Aztec Information Management

Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za> writes:

>My question: so the rest of the world is under-reporting evil by
>the ANC. Why isn't the IRR reporting all the human rights
>violations in kwaZulu? Or are all the reports about coercion

I note with interest that some SAIRR researchers have resigned, allegedly due
to their belief that JKB is waging a disinformation campaign against the
ANC.

-- 
Graham Wheeler                     | "That which is weak conquers the strong,
Network Systems Programmer         | that which is soft conquers the hard."
Aztec Information Management       | 		Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching Ch. 78
gram@aim1.aztec.co.za              | There's no justice, there's just us
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: f54oguocha@edison.usask.ca
Subject: RE: Angola: See what Savimbi is up to now (was Re: Great Victory in
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:47:37 GMT

In a previous article, kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) wrote:
> 
>Plain Bullshit! These right-wing religious ideologues are a pain in the neck,
>not to mention other places! 
>
They will continue to be a pain in the neck and other places so long as you
blatantly refuse to imbibe the simplest elements of democracy, so long as
you live and let not live, so long as you remain biased on issues concerning
Angolan politics.

>FYI, Savimbi used to get his funding from the socialist countries too while 
>fighting the Portuguese! He is a first-rate opportunist!

Boy, are you a novice in politics? Don't you know that in politics there
is no permanent enemy and no permanent friend? The Portuguese were a common
enemy to MPLA, UNITA, and other liberation forces in Angola. During the 
independence struggle both capitalist west and communist east were using
the liberation forces to champion their individual agenda. So, money went
anywhere it could go. We all know that the real Angolan crisis started 
when the Portuguese had left. Can you now tell us how much Cuba and the
estwhile USSR spent in post-independent Angola? 

>Anyway, see what your god Savimbi is up to now:
Thanks for the AP info. Let's wait and see whether there is any iota
of truth in what UNITA is making noise about. There is no smoke 
without fire. This network cannot tell us all that happened in Angola
during the election.
Oguocha           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vvf@ph-cip.uni-koeln.de (Volker Franzkowiak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Internet address in Tanzania ?
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:38:49
Organization: Institute of Theoretical Physics, University of Cologne, F. R.
	Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sun.ph-cip.uni-koeln.de

Is there any Internet address in Tanzania (University or Government) available?

Volker

Volker Franzkowiak
University of Cologne, Germany
vvf@sun.ph-cip.uni-koeln.de
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:29:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: frcs.1992Oct6.162908.14807
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria

Thus spake pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene):

> Certain things are clear and should not need qualification. UNITA  is absolu
> tely evil and MPLA  one of the most courageous and progressive parties in
> Africa. This is something that shouldn't even be contested.

Paul, you really are too much sometimes. Part of the culture of
tolerance is precisely *not* to see things in such rigid terms. The
world is not, in general, made up of angels and devils - there's a
hell of a lot inbetween and it also depends where you are standing.

Someone mentioned that Africa's major problem is precisely that it
lacks a culture of tolerance. I don't know that it is the major, or
the only, problem, but it's certainly a big one. Being able to forgive
is not only gentler, it is also more practical in the long term.
Hatred breeds hatred. 

By the bye - looks as though Savimbi isn't accepting defeat. I suppose
the US govt will support him through this one too?

Linda
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 8 Oct 92 04:59:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <2557.2AD328C4@catpe.alt.za> Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters) writes:
> PMM> unpunished.
>
>Quite! it is more than sad that Savimbi's excesses should go unpunished ....
>just as sad as the fact that MPLA attrocities will also go unpunished....
>Chus, Wall
 In case you did know Africa neither values nor wants to hear your judgement
on issues of morality. As it is you might have to account for you where abouts
during the june 16, 1976 period. If it happens that you were one of the gun 
totting little devils who murdered so many children you could find your self
in the same docket as Jonas Sabimbi. 
 I am amzed that you would even venture a reply, what makes you think your
morallity is the same as ours?
makala
y
From: schmidt@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Re: Games of African Originy
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City NY
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:11:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.174429.5740@gw.wmich.edu>, 92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> 
> Perhaps this isn't exactly the type of topic that is tossed around here 
> much, but I am rather interested in games that originated in Africa,
> mainly games incorporating stones, "board" games if you will, such as
> mankala/oware, etc.  If you know where I might get some information on
> such games, and--ideally--any sources that might have computerized
> implementations of these games, I would very much like to hear from you.
> Do you have a favorite game in this category?

Look for a book, "Africa Counts", I forget the author, but readily available. 
one chapter is on Oware, etc.  Also there is another book I own entitled
"mancala games"  I'll try to remember to find my copy and post the author. 
There is a book sold by the US Unicef people which also has info.  Also, some
months ago, someone posted a "C" computer program for playing a version.  You
would also find it interesting to ask any Africans you run into.  There seem to
be as many sets of rules as there are players ;-}

John
> 
> Chris Kmotorka
> 812 Sprau Tower
> Dept. of English
> Western Michigan University
> Kalamazoo  MI  49002
> 
> 92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu
-- 
*******************************************************************************
John H. Schmidt, P.E.              |Internet: schmidt@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Technical Director, WBAU           |Phone--Days     (212)456-4218
Adelphi University                 |       Evenings (516)877-6400
Garden City, New York 11530        |Fax-------------(212)456-2424
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:21:25 GMT

In article <21059@plains.NoDak.edu> varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel) writes:
>
>I see.  So Savimbi is a traitor and should be shot.  And all of those

No, you don't see it...all the current leaders in most of the African
countries, except for a set of countries of negligible measure, should be
tried, along with all their ministers and other party officials where
applicable; their pay masters, etc, should all be put on trial...

Oh, and while we are at this, all those who benefitted from this corrupt
dudes should pay for having assoociated with them...

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)

>What a happy place Africa would be if this were to happen.  So nice, in
>fact, that I would never want to be there.  Of course, one must remember that 
>the rhetoric of genocide does create a lot of problems, not the least of
>which are tortures and murders so gruesome that it would make one barf just
>to think about them.  

Now see if you would like to be in this "new africa"...
>
>I would hope that an Africa I ever see would have sunshine, families, and
>wisdom.  The world has had enough of rotting flesh and vulture-picked bones.
>
>But cheer up, things can ALWAYS be worse.
>
>--Andrew Varvel--
>The North Dakota Institute for the Study of Africans who study Violence

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: "Selective Quotations damage Jeffery's Credibility"
Date: 8 Oct 1992 15:24:27 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cs.ubc.ca

Long rave by Gavan not included. Well I can't comment on 
all of what he says since I don't have the time, but IF
what he says about Jeffery's report of the HRC report is true
then either Gavan didn't read the report or he misled the net
by posting selective quotes so as to portray the HRC in
as bad a light as possible. If he has given a fair representation
of the HRC report and said that it was biased I probably would
have accepted his point. He didn't. Motives, motives, motives.....


Scott
jhsegal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Condoleances
From: jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Akiba Segal)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:14:52 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center


   Since there is not such a newsgroup as soc.culture.egypt I decided to
post this message here.
   I want to express,by this,my condoleances to all the Egyptian families who
had lost a close soul in the tragic disaster in Cairo 2 days ago.I also want
to wish fast recovery to all the wounded in this earthquaqe.
				   Livian Segal
				   Weizmann Institute of Science
				   ISRAEL

 ---------------This Was Another L I V Y ' S  Production----------------------

  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @ Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @ Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Oct 8: Chuan to let law prevails over May incident
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:03:00 GMT



I have made a considerable effort to understand the news posting (extracts below)
but there are parts that dI cannot make sense of.
  Can someone clarify please:

In article <9210081639.AA02205@ipied.tu.ac.th>, kamol@ipied.tu.ac.TH (Kamol Hengkietisak) writes...

>Chart Thai MPs Chongchai Thiangtham and Chaowarin Latthasaksiri 
>and Chart Pattana's Chamlong Krutkhunthod said they thought 
>everyone involved in the incident and later absolved by the 
>Amnesty Decree could now be prosecuted.
> 
>"We will follow this case closely so it can be established who 
>were right and wrong, and who were the angels and who the 
>satans," said Mr Chaowarin.
> 
>He urged relatives of the May victims to file criminal charges 
>against pro-democracy leaders, claiming they were responsible for 
>the violence.
> 
As i understand law, criminal charges can only be issued on behalf of
the victim against the person(s) who caused a victim's injuries or
death.  That would mean the person(s) who pulled the trigger, and
those who gave the order to pull the trigger.  How can this possibly
be applied to PRO-democracy leaders?????  It seems that this is a
deliberate attempt by Chart-Thai to cloud the issue and confuse
everyone.


>The official also said Maj-Gen Chamlong and the other MPs 
>involved in the protests were protected by parliamentary 
>immunity.
> 
What does parliamentary immunity mean in Thailand?  Over here, as far
as I understand it, it means that an MP cannot be sued for slander
for a staement made in side parliament.  In the above statement it
is suggested that in Thailand it means that MP's and PM's are
protected from prosecution if any order they give is illegal.  Is
that right?  Is there some confusion between parliament and
government here?  Is a government order automatically legal even
if the statutes say otherwise?


Laurence
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 18:09:21 CDT
From: <U21729@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: White trash

I agree with the guy who agrees with the guy who posted the original "White
 Trash."  Mr. Godfrey is a mindless dweeb.  He's got nothing better to do than
 criticize Thailand.  Even though I'm not Thai, I too feel angry, and nobody ha
s a right to express negative comments on another culture, especially on that
 culture's newsgroup.  Peace to all races....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: pxu8785@usl.edu (Uthayopas Putchong)
Subject: Salary for instructor
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:42:01 GMT

In article <EepaIre00WBM07XVMd@andrew.cmu.edu> Schitt Laowattana <sl2k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>    Salary of a new instructor who has obtained a master degree will
>start at 15,000 baht/month.  Rate of increase (RI) is as follow:

	This salary is much better than the old system. Anyway, the private
sector can pay much more than this.Talking about the instructor in the 
field of engineering, right now, the newly graduate engineer ( B. Eng) get
salary about 10,000 - 13,000 Baht. For the Master they pay more than 20,000 
Baht.This not include a Bonus at the end of the year. Consider that this is 
still another plan, we will not sure when it will be effective ( or our 
government will turn it down like another plan) this rate of salary can not
compare to the private sector.( May be next year the newly graduate engineer
can get more than 15,000 ) So, I don't think that this will enable government
to get the good engineer to be an instructor. It funny that you want the best 
but pay the less.  
         Anyway, it's better to do something than nothing. One of my senior 
who just got the Ph.D degree in Computer Science were asked to join one
univeristy in Thailand. When he asked them how much they can pay, the answer 
is about 9000 Baht. Guess what is his answer ? I also work as an instructor
in the univeristy too. When my student graduate, the first day they work 
they get salary as least 2 times of me even I have a master degree.   
>
>      - For the first five years, his salary will be increased 10% per year.
>      - Fifteen years later, RI is 7% per year. 
>      - Another fifteen years later, RI is 5% per year.
>
>    If he starts working at the age of 25, he will get his salary of
>135,000 baht/month when he is 60 years old. 
> By implementing this plan,
>the national budget of 552 million baht per year must be allocated, as
>indicated in the following table:
>
>                       Annual Budget for S&T instructors    
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------  
>                      Current system    Proposed system    % increase
>Engineering                 131              300                169
>Sciences                    324              707                383
>
>Total                       455            1,007                552
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                        unit : million baht
>
>Posted by
>Schitt  laowattana
>
>
This is a lot of budget. As you will know, even the government are willing
to pay this amount for the S&T instructor, the instructor in another field
will complain that why don't they get it too, why threat them as a second
class instructor. So, what will the government do. Turn this plan down 
again as before.

Warm Regards,

Putchong Uthayopas,
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 11 Oct 1992 21:05:44 CDT
From: <U25256@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Godfree's World

OPTIONS: ACK    LOG    LONG     NOTEBOOK ALL




Date: 11 October 1992 20:39:47 CDT
From: <U25256@UICVM>
To:          cooneys@gw.wmich.edu
Subject:     Re: Re: Godfree's World

> In article <92284.134854U25256@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U25256@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>> Yes, I agree with you, man. Professor Schit's posting is getting kind
>> of boring. So..., why don't you post it up? I would love to read your
>> phd feces or fetus.
>
> Who is this anonymous and nasty-sounding person signing on
> from Chicago? Do some systems allow anonymous postings? Why,
> except for shame, would someone omit signing his or her
> name?
>
> (BTW, Khun Schitt's postings weren't intersting to me, but I
> see no need publicly to say so at the cost of hurting
> people's feelings gratuitously! And obviously they will
> interest *some* readers, however few.)
>
>                                 Seamus Cooney

 My first name is 'Anal' and my last name is 'Nymous'. And I am
 nasty, I must admit. Especially to the loud mouths. Why don't
 you check on other news group?  and see who's a bigger jerk.
 I don't like to see a person talk about Thailand(especially in other NG)
 ,when he is not perfect himself. You probably perceive as a biggest
 Anal, but if you know me, I'm a real nice guy.
 And if you still think I am an asshole, I thank and respect your opinion.
 And Professor Schitt's posting is great and don't mess around with
 it. Or don't mess around with others if you're not so perfect yourself.

                            'Anal' from Chicago
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 21:41:28 CDT
From: <U25256@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: British Boy

Sorry Laurrie that you feel that I'm not intelligent - more to the point,
 intelligent (nerdy) as you are just because I don't have a PhD in Physics.
Wow I'm impressed.....NOT!!  May I kiss your hand?  No I don't think so,
because it's too sticky.  I didn't post the message because I'm angry at you.
 As a matter of fact, I had a big smile on my face at the time.  Well, King
 Laurrie the Zero, I'll talk to you later...
And thanks to the people who agree with me, even though I don't you people.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: S and T in Thailand
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:53:00 GMT


As far as I can tell, the original posting from me containing the 3 letters
concerned with my dispute with cmu, has vanished from the network.  If
I'm correctr, does anyone know why or who removed it?  Perhaps I just
cannot find it.

Laurence
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 8 Oct 1992 19:45:00 CDT
From: <U27876@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: White Trash

I agree 100% with the gentleman who posted this article.  Lau-"runt" had no
 right to criticize Thailand, the Thai government, or the Thai people.  I
mean who is he anyway?  He's nothing but a snot-nose, scumbag, intellectually
inferior, limy British twerp.  I don't care if he got a PhD.  To him this
title is Ph- "Dork".  He should be banned from this newsgroup (and better
 yet, this planet) if he doesn't have anything nice to say.