HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ian@sinix.UUCP (Ian Malone)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists, er, USENETters
Keywords: obnoxious loudmouthed bigotted culturally impaired USAian disgrace
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:40:50 GMT
Organization: SNI AG Muenchen, STO XS

In article <1992Sep3.192906.10550@morrow.stanford.edu> silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:

[ lots of really stupid, wasteful, completely immature raging by lots of
  people, to which Ms. Silvia responds... ]

[ insightful observations articulately stated ommitted... 

>	This observation is not based on my brief read of soc.* groups
>or rec.travel, but on roughly 15 years of adult life and travel in both
>Europe and North America.

Look Holly, you want to cut the shit or what?  You must be a serious
newbie.  Don't you know that this group is _strictly_ for the ranting
of raving of bigoted, uneducated, misinformed arm chair travellers
whose idea of exotic travel is 1 week at a Club Med in Mexico. This
is _not_ the place for hi-brow examination of cultural differences,
exotic topographies, varying perspectives, logistical considerations
of world travel, or global hot spots.

This group exists for several reasons:

	Ridiculous, often repeated attacks on American Tourists by
	ridiculous, obnoxious Europeans

	Ridiculous, over-extreme defenses of American Tourists by
	ridiculous, obnoxious Americans
	[ See my obnoxious postings for examples... ]

	Regurgitation of biased interpretations of world events and travel 
	issues poorly recalled by feeble-minded people that weren't really
	paying attention to the orginal article anyway.

Now, back to the bitching....

>======================================================================
>|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
>|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
>|| Stanford University						     ||

Color me gone.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Separatists...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:40:42 GMT

In article <4551.322.uupcb@wugate.wustl.edu> carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca)  writes:
>JK>>>There are movements in both Alaska and California to break away from the
>JK>>>US.  Alaska's movement is stronger as the movement to break California
>JK>>>into two states is more immediate than the California seccessionist
>JK>>>movement right now.  (Personally I'm against CA leaving--if we have
>JK>>>to keep our current state government that is!)
>JK>>
>JK>>    How strong are these movements? On what grounds want they to
>JK>>    split/secede California? Why should any sane USian want a European
>JK>>    situation on American soil?
>
>Do you imply insane Europeans?

	I did not write this nor imply this.  Check the attributions
and indentation levels of the original article.

>
>JK>        The split-CA-in-two movement has been around as long as
>JK>CA has been a state.  Every few years in gets more active, the
>JK>media gets excited, then it dies down again.  The main reason
>JK>nothing ever happens is that what would be Northern CA doesn't
>JK>want San Francisco but San Franciscans would rather die than
>JK>be part of Southern CA :)
>
>Why's that?
>

I think that, primarily, they don't want to be seen with Los Angeles
the Weird.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
#define LA_DISCLAIMER "Hey, I live 50 miles from LA.  Don't flame me."

From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:44:12 GMT
Subject: American Jokes
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa

hi...

      I am interested in compiling a bunch of American jokes. 

      That is to say that I am looking for jokes which are similar to 
jokes about any other culture. 

      Please e-mail jokes to rks@teal.csn.org


-thanks


rks         
rks@teal.csn.org
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Visiting Greece
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:23:40 GMT

hk0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Harry Karatassos) writes:

>I intend to visit Greece soon and was wondering as to what sites I
>should visit.  I am interested in the 1821 revolution and the years
>before that during the Turkish rule.  I would like to see sites that
>convey the living conditions of people back then especially church and
>monastaries.  Does anyone have any suggestion as to where I should go?

   Nauplia, the first capital of independent Greece, was important in
the revolution and still has so some extent the atmosphere of a
pre-indepence town in its architecture, Ottoman fountains, etc.  You can
still see the mark from one of the bullets fired by Capodistrias's
assassins, and a grim prison cell where Kolokotronis was held may be
visited.

   Rethymno, in Crete, is one of the major towns in Greece which has
most preserved an Ottoman atmosphere in its older quarter.  From there
you can conveniently visit the Monastery of Arkadi, site of the famous
resistance incident in 1866, where hundreds of Greeks who had taken
refuge in the monastery, where the resistance fighters' gunpowder was
stored, blew the monastary and themselves up rather than surrender to a
beseiging Ottoman army.  The monastary has been restored as a museum and
gives an excellent picture of how 19th century monks lived.

   The Greek Folk Art Museum in the Plaka in Athens has lots of exhibits
illustrating Greek daily life in the 18th and 19th centuries.

   I bet a lot of Greek readers of this group took school trips when
they were kids to various places associated with 1821 and preceding
events.  Maybe they could tell us about them.
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Confusions...
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:08:30 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <Sep13.195630.44234@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas):
> In article <4063@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>>
>>No, there were legends to this effect which are uncheckable. Very few
>>scholars now believe in the Dorian invasion and these Dorians were
>>always, rather embarassingly, archaeologically invisible.
> 
> Neither their dialect was, nor their cities are invisible. They even
> built a few in Cyprus... So, would you please name those "scholars"
> of yours?

Now I did say the Dorian Invasion not the Dorians. It is these putuative
Dorians who are invisible, not the cities of the classical period. For the
invasion/non-invasion you could try inter alia Snodgrass, Renfrew,
Chadwick. It might be a mistake to insist on the glories of Doric
architecture after all Thucydides remarks you'd never have been able to
work out the glory of Sparta from its paltry remains. BTW it is clearly
the Lancastrians of Northern England who are the Spartans true
descendents as you can see from the fact that the national dish of both
groups was the Black Pudding. 


> 
>>Just a further thought, what about the ancient authors who say there was
>>Macedonian language?
> 
> They meant dialect.
> --

Well they had a funny way of putting it. See Bosworth, Eumenes,
Neoptolemus and PSI XII.1284 GRBS 19 1978  for historical reasons why they probably meant separate
language and perhaps even more interestingly a piece by Crossland
published in the proceedings of the 4th International Symposium on
Macedonia on linguistic reasons why Macedonian can't be a Greek dialect.
Even Hammond is forced to admit that the Macedonians spoke "a patois
which was not recognizable as normal Doric Greek, but may [impt qualifier,
Andy] have been a north-west Greek dialect of a primitive kind" 


None of this of course has any bearing on the right of the modern
Macedonians to their name.

Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: santas@inf.ethz.ch (Philip Santas)
Subject: Re: Independent Slavo-Macedonia
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:46:01 GMT


In article <MACRAKIS.92Sep9182145@next4.osf.org> macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:
>
>I think the term `multiculturalism' is used largely in the US, and is
>a more recent coinage than the phenomenon of a Europe of regions.  If
>you want to look at the phenomenon of regionalism in the context of
>the nation-state, I'd say that it is in fact a reaction to the
>extremes of the nation-state ideal, which require an identity of
>nation and state.  Regionalism allows preserving the richness of
>multiple `nations' or `regions' while preserving the economies of
>scale of a unitary state.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Regionalism is a physical restriction of individuals.
Current technological tendencies, and work conditions 
tend to minimize its influence. 
On the other hand, regionalism is not the only way of 
preserving or presenting cultural richness. Culture is not
a local property.

>I certainly agree that survival of languages is first of all up to
>individuals.  Our household is in fact trilingual: we use English (we
>live in the US), French (my wife is French-speaking Belgian), and
>Greek (I am of Greek origin).

This is a typical case for people living abroad, or for any of us
who live in such trilingual environments.

But why should the state provide schools for teaching vlach or
albanian or whatever in Greece? Does the american state does this
for foreigners? Individuals of these cases should care by
themselves for teaching to their offsprings the languages they
find appropriate. Or they can organise a club and teach to their
children thier language, without bothering the rest.

In any case, teaching languages which are spoken just by a small group
of people during their private meetings, is something expensive,
it has minor interest for the rest of the population,
and is out of the scope of a central government.

>As for the content of the issue, I agree that much is unknown about
>the origin of the Rumanians and the Vlachs.

Historically this is possible. But I do not see what has this got
to do with the organisation and the political decisions of the greek
state concerning teaching or promoting the vlach language. 

Furthermore people tend to make decisions based on known facts
and not on speculations.

Notice also that for years ancient greek was not tought to
high school students, although it's origin is well known...

Filippos Santas
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Counting in Greek
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:38:41 GMT

efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu writes:
>B.-H. is not a recognized country. That makes it seven.

If it is not recognized, how come it's a member of the United
Nations? Actually, B-H is even recognized by Greece, jointly
with the EC.

>Russia did not follow on the recognition move. No Russian counsulate exists
>in Skopje. That makes it six.

Recognition does not have to imply an embassy or consulate. How
many of the X-USSR states have Greece recognized? In how many of
them does Greece have diplomats?

>Slovenia and Croatia were desparate for
>recognition and would recognize anything/one that would reecognize them back
>in order to survive.

Do you know what you are talking about? (Silly question, I know
you never have been.) Slovenia and Croatia recognized Macedonia
in March or February 1992, that is after that they themselves had 
achieved recognition of the EC and other countries.

>They achieved it. However, being x-socialist republics
>of the same communist regime the recognition of another x-socialist republic
>of the same country comes with no real value. Therefore, they're out and
>now the total is four.

Indeed, counting in Greek. Sigh, when is this country to grow up?
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
"Recreation of source code from design documentation can be costly"
IEEE Std 1042/1987
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,eunet.politics
From: lourakis@csd.uch.gr (Manolis Lourakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Article concerning Greece in the Spectator
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:58:35 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Crete HELLAS


  I suppose that some of you read an article by Noel Malcolm,
published in the Spectator on the 15th of August.Among other things,
Malcolm accused Greece of being the "new bully in the Balkans".
Patrick Leigh Fermor,a British who served with the Inteligence in
Greece during W.W. II,replies to Malcolm's lies and accusations in
an article published in the Spectator on the 12th of September.

I believe that everyone really interested in figuring out what's
going on between Greece and the republic of Skopje should go
through this article.Perhaps they will find it easier to accept
facts stated frequently by Greeks in this list,when they are 
stated by a nongreek....

M. Lourakis,
C.S. dept. , Univ. of Crete,Greece.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: secsu@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ralph O. Clark)
Subject: Re: Confusions...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 15 Sep 1992 00:26 EST  

In article <7298@charon.cwi.nl>, dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes...
>In article <Sep13.195630.44234@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
> > In article <4063@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
> > >Just a further thought, what about the ancient authors who say there was
> > >Macedonian language?

What ancient authors? And what *exactly* did they say (please quote the
ancient Greek words)? (I know, DTW didn't make this claim, ATF did, but
anyone who knows of evidence for a Macedonian (especially non-Greek)
language in antiquity is welcome to post).

> > 
> > They meant dialect.
> 
>One remark here.  There is no linguistic difference between dialect and
>language.  Could you please elaborate on what you mean by dialect as
>distinctive from language?
>A common misconception is that two language are related in a dialectal
>manner if they are mutually understandable.  This is nonsense.  Take
>three languages, A, B and C.  A and B are mutually understandable and
>B and C are mutually understandable, by that reason A and B are related
>dialectically, and so are B and C, and hence A and C.  By this reasoning
>you will find that Russian and Dutch are dialects of a single language.

I would be interested in any sequence of languages
L1, ..., Ln where L1 = Russian and Ln = Dutch and L(i) and L(i+1) are
mutually comprehensible. I think you are stretching your point.

In fact, any speaker of modern Greek knows that it is very easy for
speakers of a dialect to speak their dialect in ways that
are incomprehensible to those who don't know the dialect.

There were several well-documented dialects of Ancient Greek that I know
of, all with characteristic vowel shifts, etc. The one that eventually
prevailed was Attic, but Homer wrote in (surprise!) Homeric Greek (really
just an ad hoc term for the language he wrote in, which contained a lot
of grammatical forms that were archaic even by classical times),
Herodotus wrote in Ionian Greek, various poets in other dialects such
as Aeolic.... Yet all are unmistakably Greek.

> 
>The term dialect is more a political term than it is a linguistic term.

What languages would you say are mutually comprehensible with standard
Dutch? Is Frisian considered a separate language or a dialect of Dutch?
Or does it depend on your political party?

>-- 
>dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
>home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland
>dik@cwi.nl

Ralph Clark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: 8800529@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: What is a European country to you?
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:02:00 GMT

In article <1839@vall.dsv.su.se> hilmi-er@vall (Hilmi Eren) writes:
>[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia ]
>[ Author was Hilmi Eren ]
>[ Posted on 8 Sep 92 11:17:24 GMT ]
>
>A. Machaeridis (am@sys.uea.ac.uk) wrote:
>: jba@dat.ruc.dk (Jan Bruun Andersen) writes:
>: 
>: >As to whether Denmark is a success or not, is difficult to say. But if
>: >we define success as economic strength, Denmark is one of the 3-4 
>: >EC-members who is eligible for entering the proposed "common currency"
>: >agreement (the other countries being (I think) France, Great Britain,
>: >Belgium, Luxembourg?).
>: 
>: >So yes, by economy strength we are a success. And we have just won the
>: >european football championship and the annual NATO competion. 
>: >Howsaboutthat?
>: 
>: And while you are so busy doing all that, somebody has to take care of
>: your women, during the summer. That is why you need Greeks.
>
>  + This is an example of how low a person can get (Machaeridis).
>  + If the Greek tourist-cities look a bit clean than you can thank
>  + the women you mentioned asshole. Without tourists Greece would be
>  + like an african state... althoug it's not so far to that.....

	Look Mr Wimppy ONE person insulted Denmark for a reason he though
just. You bounce back and insult the whole nation how much better are you
(Notice I am not saying Danish people just you) Well what can one say ?

>
>
>
>Hilmi

	George
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Dialects (was Re: Confusions...)
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:53:19 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <MACRAKIS.92Sep14115248@lakatos.osf.org>, macrakis@osf.org
(Stavros Macrakis) writes:
>In article <Sep14.015231.21242@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>
>   That there are rules that can convert from one dialect to another of a
>   language. Of cource, the rules won't be absolute as there will be
>   exceptions. Also, each dialect might have words that are particular to
>   it, or words that are considered archaic by the other dialect.

I forgot to mention that said rules should not be too extensive.

>Nice try, but unfortunately this definition won't work in most of the
>world.  It _does_ more or less work for Modern Greek dialects because

Here's an ancient Greek example: The eta in the articles and the endings
of the nouns in the Achaic was alpha in the Dorian. For example, Ga (Earth)
instead of Gi, or how about "i tav, i epi tas" ("or the, or on the" --
"or it, or on it") instead of "i tin, i epi tis"?

>In other parts of the world, you will discover that there is a
>continuum of 'dialects' across wide areas where there are many
>'languages'.  For instance, from Austria to the Netherlands, there are
>no sharp dividing lines among the local Germanic dialects, although

This is also true between standard Greek and its dialects, or between
the dialects in Cyprus (in Paphos, the sigma of the tense infix is omitted
if preceeded by an "e" sound; ekaqia (I sat) instead of ekaqisa).

>There are no 'rules' for converting among these dialects in general,
>although there are some 'rules' for determining sound changes from the
>(usually reconstructed) parent language to the daughter languages and

Indeed, and as long as these rules are apparent and not many, the languages
in question are dialects of the same language.

>dialects.  Note in particular in your example of Cypriot that doubled
>consonants do not exist in the other dialects, so there can be no
>'rule' converting the other dialects to Cypriot.  Of course, there

But we do write those double consonants. So, the rule is that in other
dialects they write them too but don't pronounce them...

The definition of a dialect that I gave is not complete, but this is no
reason to reject it. One should try to build on it.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu
Subject: Athletic Megabucks
Originator: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University, Evanston, Il., USA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:26:07 GMT

It is true that an NBA player - I forget his name... Guiolta(?) -
signed up with Olympiakos for $2,000,000 USD ? !!

Not bad!  Who said that the economy is not in good shape?
He must be dreaming.

Maximos Stratos.
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| |M_| | | |A_| | |C_| | | |E_| | |D_| | | |O_| | |N_| | | |I_| | |A_| |
| |____| |______| |____| |______| |____| |______| |____| |______| |____|
             T H E   H E A R T B E A T   O F   G R E E C E
========================================================================
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: BELORUSANS REQUEST RECOGN
Date: 5 Sep 92 22:12:32 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:


>Paidia, fainetai pws ekana laqos. Aytos o SAS moiazei na mhn einai dikos
>mas, telika. H' an einai dikos mas to paizei ligo parajena.
>Se opoiadhpote periptwsh, aytoi oi skopianoi einai gia mayra klammata.
>Exoun apomwnwsei toys eaytous toys apo thn pragmatikothta.

>Mixalhs.
>                                                                                                              
 SAS kai o gnwstos palios Shopov einai ena kai to auto proswpo. Gia tin
 akribia, SAS symenei: Sacha A. Shopov.  Twra, gia poio logo exei alaksei
 thn ypografh tou, e den jerw.

 Geia xara,

-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8517 soc.culture.turkish:9734 soc.culture.europe:8157