From: jbs@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Organization: Joe's Bar and Grill
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 21:00:13 GMT

In article <bcAz02zs21y201@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> bws20@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons) writes:
>In article: <1992Sep9.205936.27220@rti.rti.org>
>
>
>Joe writes about the Weaver incident in response to my anti-Weaver vitriol
> 1) The dog was shot without provocation?  IS this what the feds say?
>    or is this what Harris the murderer of a fed says?

This is what Harris, the *killer* of a federal marshal, says.  Glad to see
that you've confirmed your conviction of the killer of the marshal without
benefit of trial by referring to him as "murderer" (even if you didn't even
know enough of the situation when you first pronounced it murder to
correctly identify the man who pulled the trigger).

>2) Guns are pointed at the kid, he points his back, and is shot.  Bummer.
>Obviously Daddy didn't teach him prudence or tactics.  This really
>    is too bad for the son, who unfortunately was a product of his
>father's beliefs.

The kid was pretty clearly of the opinion that he was about to be shot,
and that his only chance to live was to defend himself with force.
Who can say if anyone else would have done differently...

>3) Belated ID as the feds.  Not surprising and not condoned by me.

Well, a glimmer of sober thought here, anyway.  The improper procedure,
no-knock searches, shooting of innocents after "bad tips", civil seizures,
and so on currently practiced by much of law enforcement today in the name
of the war on drugs, and the war on "undesireables" such as Weaver and Harris, 
is at the core of why a lot of people think the government is flexing too
much muscle. We'd rather a few bad guys get away than a few innocents get
blown away. We'd rather the government not get used to the idea that it
can just nail whoever it decides is subversive without benefit of usual
process of law.

>IT _is_ possible that events transpired too swiftly...?  Transcripts
>   I read of WEaver's phone conversation with a supporter indicated _he_
>   beleived they were being approached by agents of the ZOG, which I would
>   interpret as feds (FBI, marshals, whatever).. CErtainly they were not
> a crack team from the LEague of Women Voters...

..and he was aware that they had been running patrols around his property
for *EIGHTEEN MONTHS*, ostensibly because of an outstanding bench warrant
on a charge of selling a single shotgun with a barrel 0.1" too short.
Not too surprising that he knew who it was, and that they had some purpose
there other than helping him weed his garden.
 
>4)  True patriot--I think so , but certainly not a perfect one.  Certainly
>     more than someone who sells illegal weapons,

I think a gun 1/10" too short was intended to be a *legal* weapon.

> or hates others because
>     of their race,

So what have you read or heard quoting Randy Weaver (or Kevin Harris)
as saying he hates anyone? I haven't read anything of the sort. How do you
know what goes on inside Weaver's head? Are you prejudiced?

>or who shoots feds.

It may yet be judged to be justifiable homicide.
Probably not, but it may be.

You, on the other hand, pass judgement on people and situations you really
don't know much about. You loudly proclaim your intolerance. Yep, some
patriot in the land of the free.


Look, I don't like race-supremacists either. I think they're scum, and that
they're scared, paranoid people.  But I also think that they should be free
to believe what they like, and to bring up their children as they
like, without governmental interference.  If the government-approved way
to bring up children were racist, I would certainly want to be free to
thumb my nose at the government and bring up my children *not* to be.
I think it's up to the free citizenry to try and change the opinions and
views of those with whom they disagree - *without* resorting to force to
do it.

I don't think {racists|gays|catholics|blacks|men|whatever} should be treated
any more harshly, or any more leniently, than anyone else accused of the
same crime.

  -joe
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,rec.martial-arts