Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Understanding (was Basic
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:09:12

Esmeralda says...
>Greetings to all, but most especially to Stephen.
>
>After reading the varied responses to this subject, I've realised that I
>let my anger over a posting get the best of me.
>
>I wish to publicly apologise to Stephen for how harsh I was.

Apologize all you want, but the wounds already exist.  You can't
even spell the word.

>I also want to say that I was not trying to say he was dishonorable in any
>way. Rereading what I wrote, it certainly sounded that way.

It did, it does, and I think that was your intent.  I think the
reason for your apology is that you realize how hypocritical you
look and wish to confuse the issue in the hope that people won't
notice how you've acted.

>I'd like to do a re-examination of this issue, with your (the Rialto's)
>indulgence.
>
>Stephen commented on Christian's self-proclaimed filk as something that
>does not belong in the SCA. Personally, I agree with Stephen somewhat.
>(I hope that came out in my previous post.) I disagree'd with the way
>he did it. And inadvertantly, was less kind to him than he was to
>Christian. Also, I beleive that I misunderstood his intent. All I heard
>was a put down. From a piece of e-mail I received from him, I now feel
>that what he was trying to do was make a general comment about filk in the
>SCA.

Which is, of course, exactly what I said.  If you will recall my
post that started this, I said...

 Stephen > Thanks...  This may be useful in convincing people why
         > Filk has no place in the SCA.

Contrary to the lies that many of you have attributed as being
"What Stephen Said" I am opposed to filk in the SCA, and outside of
the SCA I feel that there are a number of places where it is
appropriate.

>Bertram saw things in a similar light to mine. And he calls out to the
>Rialto, asking questions. I saw this as an effort to find answers; to
>bring more courtesy to this forum; and definitely not intended to be
>discourteous to Stephen.

Yeah, the courtesy has really hit the fan lately.

>Definitely part of the problem here is only having words to convey
>what we mean. Hossein knows Stephen. Therefore he heard his words as
>much gentler and more literally. I know Bertram, and his quest for
>knowledge, and his courtesy.

Yeah, I've learned about his courtesy also.

>Hossein responds to Bertram. What I heard, (and please correct me
>as to your intent, because at this point, I can only think that I
>misinterpreted) is that discourtesy, and hurting others is o.k. if
>you are saying the truth. That saying your peace and trying to spare
>others feelings a little is not just possible.
>
>It was this that I was railing against so strongly. I beleive it is
>possible to state an opinion, or give constructive critisism without
>it coming across as attacking the individual.

 Stephen > Thanks...  This may be useful in convincing people why
         > Filk has no place in the SCA.

As you can see, I attacked filk, not any individual, which is *not*
the case with the attacks on me.

>Many people are argueing that posting filks or singing them at post-revels
>are fine, and that the post shouldn't have been admonished. I agree. But
>I also now think, that that was not Stephen's intent. He was talking about
>filk in the SCA, rather than outside of it.

 Stephen > Thanks...  This may be useful in convincing people why
         > Filk has no place in the SCA.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^
Jeeze, you just can't get it, can you?

>I agree with Angharad that this was probably poorly stated.

No worse than the "Cheap Shot" comment from Moreach.  The "Shove it
up you Mule" comment from Dafydd.  And numerous other comments.
These thinly disguised as being arguments in favor of courtesy.

>Graydon says we're arguing axioms. If we are, it's not just about music.
>It's also about courtesy. I'm not sure I agree with Angharad's classi-
>fication of 'garden-variety' Easterners, and 'shovel' mid-Westerners.
>However, there does seem to be a basic misunderstanding of what people
>are trying to say from time to time. And if this analogy, helps any of
>us with not trying to read intent, but rather to listen to the words
>more closely, then it matters not whether the analogy is wholly accurate.
>It might be useful, and that can be enough.
>
>Su segura servidora,
>     Esmeralda la Sabia

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