From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Blind Listening
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:30:06 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1190707@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) 
writes:
>In rec.audio, matgbb@lure.latrobe.edu.au writes:
>To continue audiophile bashing...
And Kurt goes on a Musician bashing.  A musiciphobe.......

>> The articled posited that the audiophiles liked what sounded most like what
>> they were used to, that is their own systems, rather than the closest thing
>> to live music. Measurements of frequency reponse tended to back this up:
>> the musicians liked the spekers that measured best, the audiophiles didn't.
>
>Again, we are basing what is CORRECT as what measures best.  Not only that,

NO! NO! NO! NO! That's NOT what he said!  He said "Measurements of
frequency response tended to back this up...."   Not "..as what
measures best".......

The measurements were made after the "best sounding" systems were
selected by the various groups.  If I remember from the posting the 
results were consistant.

The Audiophobes liked the Audiophillia and the musicians and others
liked systems that, when measured, just happened to be flater in
response.

>you use people who spend more time in the orchestra than listening to the
>orchestra as those who know best what the orchestra sounds like.  My opinion
>about most musicians, not all, have a fairly poorly developed taste in
>sound quality. There are exceptions. Most musicians, classical ones, don't
>get interested in stereo, mono will do.  It's not what they're in tune to.

Stereo is not the end all a good mono recording is very rewarding.  And where
do YOU get off belittling musicians?  The performance IS more important than
image, sound stage or anything else you care to mention.  And if one person 
plays out of tune the whole orchestra suffers.

I believe that musicians are far more capable of determining what
CORRECT sound is than any non-musician audiophile.  The musician has
DIRECT COMPARISON in their favor.

>They listen to performances, not room clues and quality of timbre.  They are  
>usually on the bottom rung when it comes to being a listener, they are players.

This is total bull!  The musicians ARE very concerned with room sound
and the quality of Timbre is their LIFE.  Where do you get off with
these statements!  To state that a musician in an orchestra isn't a
listener is correct, after all they are only creating the gawd damn
shit!.

>I think what is being implied here is off base.  We are to assume musicians
>know sound quality best?  Not even conductors.  Try recording engineers, the
>few who care.

I don't conduct and I don't play in an orchestra.  I do record them.  I
do care what the recording sounds like,  I care about the room sound, the 
conductor, the musicians, the audience, the ushers and yes even the
ticket takers!!!!

Your comments have been placeing yourself above us all.  And I am
insulted.

(analogue/digital tiff deleted)

>About the audiophiles who attended their first concert:
>Some audiophiles left because it doesn't sound right.  That's 
>the problem with some audiophiles -- their reference is at home and in their
>head.  But it doesn't really diminish their enjoyment just because live 
>is a disappointment to them.  Live has acoustic problems homes don't have,
>and what seat you get greatly changes things.  Also, live has obnoxious
>coughers, louder and more annoying than clicks and pops.  Audiophiles 
>are used to panoramic soundstages, they may have got a back row seat where
>the sound was muddy with reverb and floors shaking and sounding too "blended."

The Audiphiles that left have lost their grounding with reality.  The
seat, the coughers, the lack of "panoramic soundstages" is all an
excuse to put themselves above everyone else in the room.  If I let
myself be affetced by little things like that (when I'm out to enjoy
myself)  I am sure I would go mad with the misery of life!!!

When I an recording I am in the hot seat and everything matters, the
page turns, the person who coughed  an eighth note before the start of
the fourth movement! 

I would NEVER put myself above the players who have put heart and soul
into a performance.  It is rude and in this case a typical example of
the elitism that is forced down our throats by the self proclaimed and
self righteous!

>I've been to many live concerts.  The best seats are back a little so the
>orchestra is viewed down below (not up above).  The sound is always better
>live to me, but I may not like their program.  And my musician father and
>my friend who plays second seat at the local symphony both own 1970's 
>stereos and they both think they sound great.  But play them a note slightly
>out of tune and they both jump on you for it.  Different mode of operation.

I see you have lowered your self to go to live concerts and I am happy
that you have found seating to your liking.  I am also pleased that
you recognize that the sound is better live.  But to further belittle
musicians because their '70's stereo brings them happiness?

Do you have DAT?
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I AM only human.
From: kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:08:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Audiophile Bashing, was CD rot -- who gives a damn?
Organization: Milky Way Galaxy