From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:00:22 GMT
	<1d9s2fINNp09@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> <1992Nov05.195251.899501@locus.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1992Nov05.195251.899501@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

   YES!  Only it wasn't because I hated a punishment, it was because I didn't 
   ever get punished.  When Mom decided to quit spanking, she didn't replace
   it with anything.  My mom would draw a line, I'd step over it and all she 
   ever did was draw another line.  Oh, she screamed, yelled, went ballistic, 
   etc. but her behavior was so different from her concept of herself she 
   conveniently forgot it a day later.

Judy, what you wanted is for your mom to SET LIMITS and FOLLOW
THROUGH. That doesn't necessarily mean PUNISHING YOU. A child that
does not have limits set and enforced eventually feels that the parent
really doesn't care about them, because the parent won't take the
responsibilty to help the child learn to stay out of danger. Your mom
became a doormat, and so you kept pushing.

   When I went into psychoanalysis I finally learned discipline.  My analyst
   had some very hard and fast rules and I spent an entire year trying to
   break past the limits.  Her favorite phrase was "You don't have to want to.
   You just have to do it."  I thank her for saving my life.  I am a completely
   different person.  

Right. Your mom didn't ever say that to you and follow through with
it. Believe me, we've said it to Katherine, and she's only 3. "I'm
sorry that you don't want to put on your shoes, but they must be on
your feet before we go out the door"

   >Many times, my father would scream and yell at me for a long time.
   >Gradually, I learned to tune him out.  He would have been much more
   >effective in disciplining me if he *had* spanked, instead .....

   Yes.  I think spanking is better than nothing.  Effective discipline without
   spanking is better still.  But nothing is the pits.

Her father didn't do nothing. Her father yelled and screamed.  Her
father learning some self control probably would have been the thing
to make a difference. Think of the state he was in to scream and yell
for a long time. Now imagine him hitting a child while so out of
control. You don't think it could happen, right? Think again - how do
you think children get abused? By parents who wake up in the morning
thinking 'how should I mess up my kid today' or 'oh boy, I get to
spank/hit/punish my kid again today'?

I am NOT saying that spankers are all child abusers. I am saying that
ineffective parenting is not going to be cured by adding spanking to
the list of things the parent does.

Judy, I don't know your mom, and I don't know when she decided to stop
spanking (but it obviously hadn't worked well, or you'd have already
been obedient). From her actions after she decided not to spank, I
venture to guess that she wasn't being a very effective or consistant
parent before. Sure, you needed some limits set, and she didn't do it.
She just wasn't firm, she was a doormat. It isn't necessary to hit a
child to be firm.

-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Organization: Student Employment Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA