From: ajpg1322@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Angelo J. Paguia)
Subject: Hello, everyone. Airing dilemmas, too.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:24:24 GMT
Keywords: Ordination of women, etc.

Hello. I just discovered this newsgroup tonight right after driving
back from Notre Dame. I thought that I should check for a "catholic"
newsgroup if I am to find others with similar religious dilemmas.
Anyway, here goes:

1. I grew up with 4 much older sisters, and as such, am very sympathetic
to the cause of women's equality. I am at the University of Illinois
where I find a lot of fundamentalists and liberal catholics and have
felt alone in my orthodox belief in the Catholic church. A recent
editorial in the school paper targeted (again) the Catholic church for
not ordaining women. This has been a difficult topic for me to under-
stand and have only clung to the teaching of the church.
   I took time to study the post-Vatican II publications, which I
found tonight to be posted on the net and am pleased to find others
feeling the same as I do about the subject.
   I have come up with two items on this, in my reflections (this is
eating me up inside !): the search for equality has been justifiable
in man-made hierarchies, such as workplaces, school, economic situations,
clubs and organizations, etc. But the church, in my mind, has stood out
as a unique entity, unlike any other man-made organizations. I cannot
put my finger on this uniqueness, but I have an abstract sense of it.
It is not justifiable for this search for equality to prey on the
church.
   Secondly, the Vatican II papers (SCDF) have left a lot of room in
their posture, I feel, to be able to turn around on their decision
to ordain women, since they only appeal to an analogy of faith and
tradition. It was a surprise for me to realize that the existence of
the church IS based on tradition, so also with the priesthood and the
papacy (or is it ?). Take away tradition (Tradition) and there is no
christianity, nor any priestly position to "vie" for. 
   The priesthood is not a position to aspire for. It is not even
open to all males, considering (as I understand from others) that 
seminarians are first sent back out of the seminary to let them
see if they really have the Call. Neither of these arguments, nor
any I have seen in the previous posts are strong enough to convince
a staunch feminist on rational grounds, I am afraid. I am also still
trying to understand and try to grasp something solid. Your discussions
on the net will be (and are) quite appreciated. Can we try to develop
a thread of reasons, reflections on this ?

2. I know that I am not alone on this since I got messages and
responses to a post on the sci.physics newsgroup concerning science
and religion, something that is near and dear to my heart (and I
see, so with Stephen Barr) since I have a B.S. in physics. They were
discussing how science and physics did not mix and I know this to be
true in my life, but the recent pronouncements on the case of Galileo
makes a lot of people feel that the RC church has proven itself
fallible, despite its claims. Take notice that the church has suddenly
become easy target regarding infallibility with the recent C of E
women's ordination and its own admission of error on the Galileo case,
coming with days of each other. I do not think that special relativity
nor the discussion on reference frames can lend a hand to any semblance
of correctness on the church's part. How does one deal with this and
justify it to non-Catholics ? Can we discuss this also along a thread?

Sorry for the long hello. Here's a quick goodbye.

Angelo Paguia
ajpg1322@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

"Not by reason, but by faith."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU