HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:31:22 EST
From:         Bill Felty <BILL.FELTY@UKWANG.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      'Educated' Criticism

kjf et al,

I must say that I agree with both your point as well as Dan's.  I agree that
any person in the film industry INVITES criticism simply through the mass
distribution of their product.

However, I also agree with Dan that there is a difference between an
'educated' criticism (I prefer the word - analysis -) and one that is not.
I compare it to some of the things I've heard the last few months about the
election. "George Bush hasn't done ANYTHING the last four years" or "Clinton's
record in Arkansas is CRAP" and then you ask the folks what they mean by these
statements and they can't even elaborate or cite an example!!  And it can
be that way with film critics (amateur or otherwise).

Far too often they simply 'bash' a film or a performance....and everyone is
entitled to their opinion.  However, to wrap one's self in the illusion that
their opinion should be accepted by others is another matter.  And I think
Dan is saying that in order to properly analyze a film as mediocre,
for example, one must have at least studied the art of film making, or
acting, or cinematography, or done research or whatever in order to
provide an "educated" criticism.

Hey, I say all the time that I don't like country music.  However, I wouldn't
begin to say that it is mediocre or that it is simplistic or crap or whatever
because I don't begin to know the first thing about it!  JMHO   :-)
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From: staylor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott A Taylor)
Subject: Eversmile, NJ
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 06:51:30 GMT


I am trying to locate a movie entitled <Eversmile, NJ>  This flic, which I 
heard about recently on another newsgroup, was not available at my local video 
store.  Can someone give me a few hints on how to go about locating a movie 
like this that is less than readily available?  Thanks in advance.
-- 

   Inquiry is human; blind obedience       Scott Taylor
   brutal.  Truth never loses by one,      staylor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
   but often suffers by the other.         (614) 421-1726
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Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:59:35 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: _Horror Film Directors 1931-1990_

John,

Lucky you, in terms of the signed copy you found.  We've got the book in our
library (I think I ordered it on basis of a good review), and it is a good
one--fun to read.  Jeff Clark
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:12:09 EST
From:         GREG KAUFMAN <GAKAUF00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Needful Things

I read something last week which said that Needful Things was in
production with Max Von Sydow as Leland Gaunt.  I can't remember
if it mentioned anyone else being involved.  I believe I read
about it in Starlog Magazine.
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:43:00 EST
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Subject:      Re: tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     23-Nov-1992 09:42am EST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

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Subject: RE: tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds

kjf-

uhhhhh....what do you mean, the Wizard was just an old geezer behind the
curtain?
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:43:01 EST
From:         Nero <CC017221@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dracula

Well Ellen, I agree with most of your points although I might venture to say
that you seemed to like it more that I did. First off, I thought that the
storyline too "Hollywood". That is, too lovey-dubby. Secondly, I thoght the
camera work was cheesy. Especially when they used the hand-cranked camera show
scenes through Dracula's eyes. It seemed as if they were trying to connect it
to that scene in the city where the ultra-modern Cinematograph was being shown.
That just confused me. I don't know, generally I just left with a bit of a
sweet and sour taste in my mouth. I expected more from Coppola I guess.

                     Cheers,
                            -Nero
                            |cc017221@brownvm.brown.edu|
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:54:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Taps and ATRM

They were well-intentioned but done in a cliched and
predictable manner.
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:28:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dan, give it a rest

The "intricacies and red tape of filmmaking" is no big
secret. You have to live in another planet not to know that
film for the most part is a business. It's showbiz, remember?
But I'm not as willing to accept mediocrity as some people are.
Besides, I'm paying $7 and Cruise is getting 10-15 mil. per
mediocre film.
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:00:15 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds

>
> Caveat Emptor. Anyone who measures his life against the movies
> is too innocent to live. I suppose there may have been some ancient
> Hellenes who considered their lives drab compared with all the fun
> Hector, Achilles, Odysseus and the rest of that gang were having --
> but I imagine most enjoyed it as a rousing good yarn. If life were
> like art, we wouldn't need art.
>

I'm here to tell you that when Top Gun came out, we got a lot of people here
who joined up so they could live that dream.  They quoted lines from the
movie ad infinitum.  When The Hunt for Red October came out, submarines were
all the rage - I've spoken with people who signed up for subs based on what
they saw in the picture & were sorely disappointed to discover that those
nifty vessels they saw on the movie screen were actually cramped, bland, &
smelled of armpit, ashtray, and hydraulic fluid.  I'm not saying that everyone
models their lives on the movies, but you tell me why there were no gangs in
Belize City before Colors came out on cable.  Now the violence (per capita)
equals anything you'd find in East L.A.  If you really believe that anyone
who measures his life against the movies is too innocent to live, stoke up
your ovens - you have a lot of work ahead of you.
                                                Alex
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:35:42 EST
From:         Bill Felty <BILL.FELTY@UKWANG.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      _The Rapture_

Hello!  In the not too recent past we have discussed _The Rapture_ on this
list.  I think it is an excellent film and since a more recent discussion
of Mimi Rodgers has been going on, I thought I'd post this bit of info:

_The Rapture_ will be on Showtime tonight at 10:00pm  EST.  I'm sure they
will have some other showings this month as well.  However, the "art" films
are not shown nearly as many times as the more "commercial" films.
From: FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Help!
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:42:00 GMT
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Adrian,

The two films your friend is looking for--Across the Wide Missouri and Wind
Across the Everglades--aren't listing in the current video directories I have
access to.  Unless someone else has other sources, it may be they're two films
still awaiting release or in a limbo between release and re-release.

Now, about THE PRISONER.  The series, which was Patrick MacGoohan's brainchild,
is actually based on his previous series, Secret Agent, and *its* precursor,
Danger Man (and therefore whoever's brainchild they were), since TP essentially
takes the agent character as the stepping off point, sending him into his
bizarre retirement.

But there *was* at least one novelization of the series (or an episode, or a
story plot not told in the set of episodes), which I remember reading a review
of.  (Quick check in Books in Print.)  Well, I don't find anything in print that
   's what I'm looking for, though there are a few books with the title The Pris
   -
oner, one or two that might be related to this series.  The one I'm thinking
of was a paperback novelization, around the time of the series (1969-70, prob-
able publication), and for some reason I remember distinctly it was reviewed
by noted SF writer Thomas Disch in Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction
(I think he liked the novel and definitely liked the series).  But that's all
I can recall.  Maybe someone else knows who the novelist was, and whether there
have been a whole series, with a couple still in print.  Jeff Clark
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:17:35 PDT
From:         frank lopez <FRANK@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      LISTOWNERS ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please sign me off this list.  I have tried the old traditional way
but listserv fails to recognize me as a list member.

My address has changed since subscribing to this list.

Please sign me off as frank@law.ucla.edu

Thanks
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:34:34 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 'Educated' Criticism

>...there is a difference between an 'educated' criticism (I prefer the word
>analysis -) and one that is not.And I think Dan is saying that in order to
>properly analyze a film as mediocre, for example, one must have at least
>studied the art of film making, or acting, or cinematography, or done
>research or whatever...

Studied and researched, sure -- but not necessarily *practiced*, as I think
the original post suggested.  Criticism by practitioners tends to focus on
the complexity and difficulty of the undertaking, rather than its overall
effect or relative success. I'd much rather read film critisism by John
Simon or Stanley Kauffmann than by Barbra Streisand or Paul Newman. By the
same token, I'm not anxious to see Simon and Kauffmann play Butch & Sundance.

kjf-
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:44:00 ZONE
From:         Ray Hoy <RAY@MCO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stephen King books/movies

>
>Even though they would probably do a hatchet job, I'm waiting for their
>version of "The Stand" (read 8 times and counting -- the complete version!)
>to come out....
>
>Orlanda
>Internet:  thompson_o@rso.dnet.ge.com
Not 10 minutes ago while planning my weekly VCR taping I read in TV Guide
that production on the miniseries THE STAND has begun. I'm looking forward
to it myself. I also expect a hatchet job, as is usual with SK films.
But I'll watch it anyway, as usual.


Ray Hoy  RAY@MCO.BITNET
Medical College of Ohio
Toledo Ohio
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:24:55 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Regional Movies

>...with regard to LA Story.  I saw it with some friends here in the East and
>I and the one of them who went to USC laughed through the whole picture.  We
>thought it was a riot, but everyone else was mystified. ... I don't know any
>non-Californians who thought it was especially funny.

I am, god help me, from Queens, and I howled. (Then again, I laugh through
most of Bergman's stuff). The director, Mick Jackson, is English -- I assume
he was amused, if also mystified.

kjf-
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:46:47 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Ikiru et cetera

Many thanks to the kind soul who recommended Kurosawa's Ikiru after I expressed
an interest in Takshi Shimura.

The movie kept surprising me because I kept expecting Americanisms, such as
a nice heartwarming scene of Takshi at the park's opening, maybe with the
newly close son at his side.  When, instead, I got a funeral scene, I had to
look at the running time on the box because I was sure it would have to end
there.  But it did not, and the picture went from sad and insightful to revel-
atory.  As usual, Takshi (Do they change the name order around when they
print them in English?  I'm assuming not, and that Takshi is his last name.)
turns in a delicate and convincing performance.  I had a difficulty imagining
this tired and timid man as the confident samurai of Kurosawa's other films.

Again, thank you.  Does anyone have one of those nifty filmographies of this
profoundly affecting actor?

Rushes:
   My favorite vampire movie has to be Love at First Bite, with George Harrison
as the world's first tanned vampire.  GOT to love his accent:  "With yooo,
ohlvays a longie."  :-)

   I've yet to see a mob movie I've enjoyed because I have so much trouble
finding affection for the characters.  I really couldn't bring myself to care
if a Corleone bit the dust, or if Joe Pesci got waxed.  They're just thugs in
suits with no real redeeming features.

                        Well, guess I should go earn my money now.
                                                                        Alex
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:24:28 GMT
From:         Kerr Avon <lcc@WIN.ICL.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: The Bodyguard

>From: Rolando Recometa <B4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
>
>One movie I have no interest in seeing is The Bodyguard.
>One way to improve Hollywood is to tell Kevin Costner to
>give it a rest. Anyway, the trailer looks like a promotio-
>nal video for Whitney Houston's new album.

While I am seemingly in a minority as someone who does not feel the need
to bash Costner just because he has become a star despite being rather
ordinary, I have to agree that, from what I've seen of the film, I
won't be rushing to see this one.
                                        Liam.
                                        ====-

     KERR AVON    |   Work: ICL,   * "Aliens!  They're probably going
 aka Liam Cairney |Reading, England*  to return Glen Miller."
  All e-mail to:- | Home: Glasgow, *
lcc@win.icl.co.uk |    Scotland    *    -- Rimmer (Red Dwarf IV)
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:13:27 CST
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: REGIONAL MOVIES

>I am from St. Louis, MO.  I loved My Blue Heaven.  I thought Steve Martin
>was great and loved Rick M(sorry, can't remember the rest).  My Cousin Vinny
>did not impress me.  I do not think region so much as story, acting, and
>directing played a part in my lack of enthusiasm.  My Cousin Vinny could
>have been done in one cute funny little  1/2 hour or hour tv movie, with plenty
> of commercial breaks.
>
>My Humble Opinion
>Helen
>Eberlehb@sluava.edu
>
Go Bills!  good luck spoon-man!  let's go blues!

Joe Daus  u of mo-columbia
c444307@MIZZOU1.bitnet
From: mrhodes%cs@HUB.UCSB.EDU (Matt A. Rhodes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Malcolm X
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:13:54 GMT
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It' been receiving pretty extreme reviews.  There seems to be problems
with it, but it's supposed to be controversial in many places.  I heard last
night that there are parts that drag, but that Denzel's acting and Spike's
direction make it worth it.  I'm going to see it without a doubt.  Probably
Friday, though.  I really need to work tonight.

I've read a book on Malcolm X, and I'd really like to see how Spike, a black
man with similar views, sees this cultural hero.  I'm even more interested in
seeing what parts of his life Spike stresses, because Malcolm had some very
WRONG (yet socially-derived) views which he later reformed.  I think Malcolm
is a good role-model for kids of all colors, as long as they learn about
Malcolm's later years, after he visited Islam.  It was then that he became
someone worth listening to.

m
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Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:45:34 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Peter's Friends

I had an oportunity to see a sneak preview of Peter's Friends at the
Film Society meeting the other night.  This is Kenneth Branagh latest
film which will open around christmas.

It has been described as a British Big Chill, which I think is a fair
description.  That is several friends get together for a weekend,
bringing with them whatever emotional bagage they have with them.
I don't think I spoiled anything for anyone by stating that.

I did enjoy the movie, and if you like this kind of movie, go see it
when it comes out.  The cast is good, and contains some of my favorite
british commedians, who IMHO do a very good job in dramatic role as well.
What I can't figure out is how this movie could make me nostalgic for
the 80's!

Carol Doms
University of Missouri-Kansas City
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:46:21 EST
From:         Bill Felty <BILL.FELTY@UKWANG.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Disney newsgroup

I saw someone mention that there is a Disney newsgroup.  I have a friend
who would *flip* to know the address and/or subscription information.
Could someone please post it?

Thanks!
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:25:44 EDT
From:         ONEIDB@MOREKYPR.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Giving it a Rest

well said...well spoken...
I agree 100%...
Just out of curiosity, how many of you film/actor bashers are actors or
involved in the filmmaking process at all?  Just wondering.  Before you
go out and bash Tom Cruise for being a "mediocre" actor or a stereotypical
actor, try and find out a little more about the intricacies and red-tape of
filmmaking in the first place.

                                                Dan
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 08:58:00 EST
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Subject:      tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     20-Nov-1992 08:26am EST
                                        From:     Anita F. Colyer
                                                  AFCOLYER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  Remote Network Mail User             ( _IN%CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET )


Subject: tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds

Alex says that tumbleweeds are tumbleweeds, no matter what state they're in.  A
state of confusion, perhaps?  :)  No offense intended, Alex--and none taken.

As a central Pennsylvania resident for all of my almost 28 years, I'm always
interested to see how my state is portrayed in film.  We have many economically
depressed post-industrial areas--places like Allentown (remember the song by
Billy Joel?), the steel mills of the Pittsburgh area, the little towns like
Altoona whose economies were once based on a booming railroad business that has
long since gone bust--and those are often the places that are immortalized in
film.

I was thrilled when Witness came out, not only because it was a great movie
(perhaps Harrison Ford's best, in my opinion--but then I'm biased), but also
because it was filmed in the Lancaster area, and it showed some of the rural
beauty of our state.  Remember all those lovely scenes of the tall grass waving
in the wind on the rolling hillsides, the mountains blue in the distance?
That's what MOST of Pennsylvania looks like.  And there are some deserted
places in the northern part of the state that are even prettier (Tioga and
Potter Counties are great for backpacking).

Last year Jack Nicholson and Danny DeVito were in this area filming Hoffa.
They stayed at the Nittany Lion Inn here on the Penn State Campus, and filmed
some parts of the movie at Lake Raystown.  I'll be interested in seeing how
that turns out.

Just some opinions, from one rural PA tumbleweed.

Anita

P.S.  We never get to see previews of all the nifty new movies here, either.
In fact, some movies never even get here at all!  One of the drawbacks of rural
living.  Then again, I guess that's what cable TV is for--so you can catch up
on all the films that never got to your area in the first place.
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