From: nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik)
Subject: Re: RFD: SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM.AHMADIYYA
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:40:45 GMT

merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
: In article <100396@bu.edu>, khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid) writes:
: > 
: > 
: 
[deletions]

: > to the Islam newsgroup.  If they do not believe that Ahmadis are
: > Muslims, it does not make sense for them to oppose a separate newsgroup
: > for Ahmadis and, as such they should cease to do so immediately.  It
: 
: By all means create a newsgroup.  The sole purpose of this group
: seems to be to propoganda Ahmadi Islam.  It cannot be condoned by
: Muslim community because the group under Islam would generate 
: the idea of a seperate community in Islam and not only that,
: it would lead people astray!  Therefore, under no circumstances
: can it be accepted to be a group under ISLAM.
: 
The propagation of the message of Islam is not a bad thing at all; rather
it is positively asked for by Allah in the Quran. So yes, we do want
to make people aware of Islam and Ahmadiyya Movement. But isn't this
true of any religious group?

I honestly do not understand how this could lead people astray. In the 
first place, according to us, the s.r.i. would be leading people astrya :-)
But anyhow, the news-reader can look at both s.r.i. and s.r.i.a. can't he?
And please do not misunderstand, articles from non-Ahmadis will be aloud
as long as abuse is cutt out.

: As Muslims, we are to hold on to the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) 
: and NOT to some teachings of some other person!
: 
: 	Prophet Muhammed (SAW) said:  Verily he among you
: 	who lives [long] will see great controversy, so you must
: 	keep to my sunna.  Beware of newly invented matters for
: 	every invented matter is an innovation and every innovation
: 	is a going astray and every going astray is Hell-fire.
: 
: 		Hadith related by Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi who
: 		said that it was a good and sound Hadith.

My dear Miss Rukhsana, you have made the classic errors: (1) reading only
a selection of hadith (which no doubt was passed to you by some knowledgable'
Muslims) while you should be reading a larger selection to put everything
uin context. This Hadith is very true and very general. It is a general
guidance to all Muslims; it is a bit like saying do not lie or else you
will go to hell. certainly a true statment, but it cannot be simply
thrown at everyone who you simply THINK are innovators. (2) You should pause
to think; how do you know that you are not following innovations and
going astray? Actually, it is PRECISELY this point that lead the Holy
Prophet (pbuh) to say that in the later days, Islam would be divided
into 73 sects and only 1 of these would be correct and the rest to hell.
He also said the Mullahs of these day would be the worst on Earth. Now
compare this to the Hadith that you have quoted; it means that the majority
would be innovators and going astray in the later days!
: 
: It seems to me the newsgroup already in existence is not used because
: of the controversy and the labeling of such people as unbelievers.  A 
: moderated newsgroup would allow the newsgroup to post articles suitable to 
: propaganda the values of Ahmadiyaa Islam ONLY!
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It has been made clear that this not the case!

: 
: 
[deletions]
: > 
: > 2.	The need of such a separate newsgroup could never be
: > overemphasised, keeping in view the complex infrastructure of the Ahmadiyya
: > movement. One is literally baffled by the numerosity of stories of great
: > news value concerning activities of the movement and statistics coming
: > out of such remote regions of the world, that the rest of the Muslim
: > world either knows virtually nothing about or has no interest in.  I think
: 
: The rest of the Muslim community might not have an interest in it because
: it is considered a seperate religion!
: 
: 	Prophet Muhammed (SAW) said:  None of you [truly] believes
: 	until his inclination is in accordance with what I have brought.
: 
: 	A good and sound Hadith which  has been transmitted from 
: 	Kitab al-Hujja with a sound chain of authorities.

Again this is a general guidance. Actually, as Ahmadi Muslims, we claim to
be the best inclined towards the way of the Prophet (pbuh) because we
follow the Quran and the Sunna the closest.
: 
: > it would be safe to say that more religious events are held in the
: > Ahmadiyya community on a numerical basis per unit time than all other
: > 72 sects combined.  The point I'm trying to make here is, for instance,
: 
: According to a recent talk by Dr. Jamal Badawi, the percentage of Sunni
: muslims is over 80 percent, the Shias about 11 percent, and the rest of
: the so-called 70 sects make up the rest of the Muslim community, just to 
: put things in perspective.  

There is a slight misundestanding here. When we talk of sects in Islam, there
are actually almost all subsects of the Sunni or Shia sects. For example,
Hannafi, Maliki, Shafi, Hannbali, Wahabi etc. are all sects with in the Sunni;
simlilary Asna-ashri, Ishmaeli, Bohra etc. are sects within Shia. Ahmadiyya
Movement actually belongs to the Sunni camp because we believe very strongly
in the first 4 Khalifas in Islam. 
: 
: Perhaps one should wonder about the religious events of the Ahmadiyya
: community, because anything invented in Islam is 'Bida'.

Really, I think this is just being cheeky!
: 
: [propaganda about Ahmaddiya community deleted]
: 
: > their thirst.  It seems that some people really want to know what this
: > movement is about and the creation of this newsgroup will clearly, at
: > least in part, provide such a channel of information.  People who stand
: 
: If this is the purpose for creating this newsgroup, by all means
: go ahead.  But there was no reason to imply duplicity on the moderators
: to state this reasoning for the creation of the newsgroup!
: 
: > 
: > Regards,
: > Rasheed,
: > Boston,
: > U.S.A.
: 
: A Muslim does not need a title Ahmadiyya added to it to make him a
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nor do Sunnis need 'Sunni' title etc. These are only labels for distinguishing
different people.

: Muslim.  He only needs to follow the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (SAW)
: and the Quran to keep to the straight path.  A Muslim is a brother to 
: another Muslim.  Prophet Muhammed (SAW) has asked us to follow the
: main group.  Being a Muslim means loving Prophet Muhammed (SAW) most
  ^^^^^^^^^^
I think that this only applies to community matters; cannot be applied to
matters of present day theology because of the hadith above which says that
72 out of 73 sects would go to hell!

: among mankind and following his Sunnah.  A muslim == a servant of ALLAH (SWT)
: and we serve HIM best by following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (SAW).

Actually, I would say following the Quran comes first, but I undestand what
you are saying.
: 
: 
: May ALLAH (SWT) forgive me if I have said anything wrong.  If anything
: good is made out of all written here, it is from the Blessings of
: ALLAH (SWT), and if anything wrong, it is from my own wrong doing.

Well I think that a lot of good can come out of sincere writing, as long
as we are all prepared to acknowledge our own weaknesses and admit that
we are mistaken once in a while.
: 
: Rukhsana [a servant of ALLAH (swt)] Merchant

By the way, you forgot to say Wasalam! (Or maybe you didn't?)

Waslam,
Nadeem Malik
nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch