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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:30:03 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2586
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2586

                           Tuesday, April 14, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                          Re: Phantom pain research
                          Back Problems And Bladde
                                 Depression
                                 Biofeedback
                                  DEAFNESS
                                 Deaf and Me
                               Deafness and Me
                                  Re: mess
                               legal questions
                          Independent living center


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: Re: Phantom pain research
From: Jim.Jones@f5109.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Jones)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/5109 - National Amputee Co, Dallas TX


[This is from the Amputee Conference]

>i don't understand where you are coming from in your condemnation
>of the SA article, that's all. [grin]

Chris,
      I don't understand where you are coming from in your support
of the SA article.
      When you entered your original message about the SA article, you
said it offered new research. I am sorry but to me, an amputee, it offers
nothing that I have not read before. As for research, the author did not
do any research, he only gave his opinions. Not once in the article does
he offer even a list, supporting sources. The only thing he offers to support
the findings of this article is other articles that he himself has written.
      My condemnation of the article is based on the fact that he offers
no support for his article. Anyone who holds a Ph.D. should be knowledgable
of research techniques. I doubt very seriously if this paper would be
acceptable in an undergraduate research class, certainly it would not
pass a graduate research class.
      I am not condeming Dr. Melzack, his article is interesting, but the
research is not there.
      As for my ideas on phantom pain: Every amputee that I know describes
his or her phantom pain differently. It would be most difficult to discuss
the effects, causes, and cures of phantom pain; even if you did case studies
on 10 or 12 amputees. To you and others it is  neurological and
psychological. To me and others it is environmental and physical.
      Because this echo ranks last in "stirring up Echo Wars", I will call
the truce. I have my opinions, you have yours, and Dr. Melzack has his.
Thanks for the interesting conversation.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!124!5109!Jim.Jones
Internet: Jim.Jones@f5109.n124.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Back Problems And Bladde
From: Art.Phelps@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Art Phelps)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:150/140 - Black Bag BBS, Newark DE


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

JS>Is there any correlation between a leaky bladder (but not
JS>stress incontinence) and disk problems probably at L5-S1?

        Be advised I'm not an M.D.
        My wife has lower back problems in the L5 area and it has caused
        leaky bladder.  Her physician asked her about it as if it was
        some form of an idicator to nerve root involvement in that area.
        Good luck with your visit to your physician.
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X For some there are no nits for they have picked them all

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Art.Phelps
Internet: Art.Phelps@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Depression
From: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org (Joel Lefkowitz)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:135/54 - Ramblin' Roots, Miami FL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

One of my Doctors told me a few years ago that depression in people
with chronic pain or depression after an operation is called
situational depression. After my last surgery I was given Prozac.
After reading and hearing all the news about it I became worried
and questioned my Dr. He told me that Prozac is the most widely
prescribed anti-depressant on the market and as far as he was
concerned it was one of the best. I took it for about a week and
every day I could feel myself getting better. Not just physically
but mentally as well. After a few weeks he told me that I no longer
needed it. He was right, but I felt so good, I didn't want to quit.
But quit I did. If anyone asks me now if I read any of those horror
stories, I just tell them to do what they think is best.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!135!54!Joel.Lefkowitz
Internet: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Biofeedback
From: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org (Joel Lefkowitz)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:135/54 - Ramblin' Roots, Miami FL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

I took both Biofeedback and self-hypnosis at the Baptist Hospital
Pain Treatment Center in Miami. I was there for three
weeks.(Inpatient). I found the more you do it, the better the
results. For me the ultimate pain killer is still accupuncture. I
still have pain in my abdomen from adhesions, but the pain in my
joints from the arthritis is totally gone. 7 years of pain, gone in
4 treatments. The doctor told me that it is not a cure and that I
would have to come back for more treatments some time in the
future, but for now its been over 6 months and no pain. He has
tried getting rid of the abdominal pain, but can't seem to reach
it. My migraines are totally gone. When I first went to him it was
for a massive(aren't they all) migraine. He started putting in the
needles and I could feel the pain ebbing. It was the most
incredible feeling.  I have been reading your missives from the
pain clinic and find that they are very similar to what I went
through. I don't know if you do it yet, but we had 1 hour a day of
physical therapy, and 1 hour a day of life therapy:ie. washing
clothes, cooking, using the washer and drier, and even getting in
and out of a car. One of the funniest things we had was putting
clothes into a front load drier. Every one had some type of back
problem so we all tried to chicken out. Our instructor asked me to
take the first load and put it in the drier. I pulled down the
door, grabbed the clothe, bent over to thow the clothes in, and the
instructor said, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING". I replied, loading the drier
like you asked. She said why did you bend over to throw the clothes
in.
Do you think there's someone in there that you want to meet.
She told us that almost everyone bends over to look in the drier,
but hteres no need. So when I got home I did it to my wife. She
said, well if you're so good at washing and drying, you can do it
yourself. From then on I kept all information to myself.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!135!54!Joel.Lefkowitz
Internet: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: DEAFNESS
From: Betty.Mcbroom@f27.n3615.z1.fidonet.org (Betty Mcbroom)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3615/27 - TN Deafness I N BBS, Knoxville TN


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

LL>B>  When one girl asked me if I'm sorry I'm
LL>B> deaf, I looked at her straight in the eye and said "No. I like
LL>B> myself for who I am."

LL>I'm curious.  By that statement do you mean that if  you had a choice
LL>between hearing and being deaf, you would choose being deaf?  If so, I find

Yes, YES.  I've been deaf all my life.  Oh, sure, it'd be nice to get
rid of the inconveniences -- great to pick up the phone and dial
whoever I want instead of using the Relay,  wonderful to understand
lectures without an interpreter.  Before someone starts to respond to
me, let me explain I'm talking about Me only. I'm not making
generalizations about other deaf people.  Some of my friends feel the
way I do -- but they are not on the Echo.

LL>that hard to understand.  I like MYSELF for who I am, but I certainly wish
LL>that I had good knees and could climb stairs like other people, or that I ha
LL>eyesight as good as other people, and I DO feel sorry for myself sometimes.

Well, I'd like to be a svelte size five;
    would like to be less shy;
    would like to have a neater house;
    would like to be able to wear contacts instead of glasses;
    would like an extra 10 hours every day:
the list of wishes could go on and on.  But I don't feel sorry for
myself because I am who I am.  All of us could be better one way or
other, we all have our faults  --  acceptance and self-esteem are
important.

                              b
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ When I lose my integrity, I lose me.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3615!27!Betty.Mcbroom
Internet: Betty.Mcbroom@f27.n3615.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Deaf and Me
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

from: Karen Keil
To: James Womack
subject: Me and We and Deafness

[K It's difficult for me to express just what I feel about the
Deaf  culture in relation to myself.  (Mixed feelings,definitely.)

You expressed this well, thank you.

[K I did  [Knot hate sign language when I encountered it....I just
felt left out, not knowing the language, stories and other
components of the Deaf culture.

That's natural anytime an "outsider" tries any group, Deaf or
otherwise. There is  period of showing a group why you should be
included. It happens with sports teams, girl cliques,missionaries
in foreign lands, and new corporate employees. It's human nature.
Conceited perhaps, but typical of the species Homo Sapiens.

[K   I never hated Deaf people---it was just that I felt
frustrated not having a common ground with them--not even common
interests, e.g. discussing books.  I felt that many Deaf people
were  not versed in the culture ofthe hearing world (don't know how
else  to term it) and that they were short-changing themselves by
isolating themselves as a separate Cultural group with nothing
shared with other human groups, not even fluency in written
English.

I understand. I felt the same way until I met a lot of deafies with
Deaf parents who were serious readers. There is variety among Deaf
people as there are among any other people.  Some Deaf people seem
to be  living embodiments of stereotypes heaped on us (just as
members of some other minorities and women seem living embodiments
of stereotypes of their groups), but they are not necessarily
representative of the group entire. That's why I feel blessed to
have traveled and lived in various places in the USA and met such a
wide variety of Deaf people.

[K Also, some Deaf people came across undoubtedly seem simple and
naive to some hearing people, especially  in the social area.  Even
now, I'm still learning things about  social aspects that most
people have learned years ago.

You see, Karen, here is where you differ from other folks I discuss
these topics with. You say you are yet learning about us. You
haven't waved us off and condemned us for simply being different
than yourself and seeing nothing wrong with being so. Every social
group of people could use more of your way of thinking.

[K There are many things I like about the Deaf culture--the sign
language is beautiful and poetic and I want to learn more of it.

You even have something nice to say about ASL. Too many others are
so busy damning it that they just  encourage the animosity of Deaf
people. They continue to belittle us. So as a Deaf person, I can
appreciate your appreciation for that aspect of our difference.
Thank you.

[K Many of the Deaf experiences are the same as mine---being
isolated  where sound is required--e.g. telephones and not being
able to communicate with hearing relatives this way, etc. There are
some  things I don't like about the Deaf culture--its
exclusiveness.....

We are no more excluded than foreign language users such as
non-English speaking Hispanics. Their concerns are being addressed
by the educational system via bilingual education.  Despite that,
like Deaf people and ASL, Bilingual education continues to take
hits by staunch opponents. Opponents who belittle the Spanish
Language and propose various political arguments against it.
Central most is the argument that Hispanics are too lazy to learn
English. They should stop using Spanish then they would get
educated. Naturaly,l Hispanics resent this. Deaf people are no
different. If we are isolated, it's because the education system
failed us and it has nothing to do with our culture. The system
isn't ours and our R E A L participation isn't welcome at this time
despite lip service to the contrary and the exceptions in a few
isolated pockets of progressive programs.

[K  I don't like being labelled negatively as a 'hearie' ( a deaf
person who acts like a hearing person) and having this be implied
as 'bad.'

Every group, yours included, has a name for "they." You may not
like the label, but it doesn't mean you're automatically bad.
People refer to each other by impressions they get from others. It
is a social phenomenon prevalent in humanity. In it crudest form,
we refer to it as name-calling. As a social phenomenon, it
essentially identifies the "they" as opposed to the 'we." Americans
are among the leading users of this tendency. I don't know why, but
we are. Maybe because of the historically multi-cultural mixture of
our country. A mixture that isn't the melting pot we'd like to
believe.  Consequently, distinctions are maintained among groups;
hence,labelling is maintained. We can try to refrain from it but
the combination of human tendency to categorize and cultural
ingrained mannerism will win out. We can keep apologizing like
crazy but we'll still label. The sin is when we do it out of spite
instead of merely to categorize for identification purposes. This
is where name-calling comes in. They take on the form of racial
slurs, sexist language, and worse. It's then you that labeling has
taken a step too far. I know the people here who use "hearie,"
"deafie," and the like don't use it in the sense of put downs. If I
saw that, I'd be among the first to decry it even if that person
and I see eye to eye on all other topics. Even if it meant
alienating an ally. It's just too wrong to ignore. So Karen none of
those I am familiar with here use the terms as put downs.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Deafness and Me
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

from:  Karen Keil
to:James Womack
Me and We and Deafness

[K  Still continued..... Will quote this section again with more
comments....

JW>  I hope your feelings are less mixed now.  Mine were once mixed
too. I used to hate sign language  in any form. I used to detest
deaf people, though I  was deaf myself. Then I discovered both
myself and   my Deaf self, and I love them both. It does not  mean
I reject others, either "deaf" or hearing. It means I'm not ashamed
of who and what I am. It  means I under the "me" better. It means I
accept my  deafness and love  "my people." That I will not  waste
my time and life trying to be something I am   not. I simply am.
And I belong.

[K I don't have a Deaf self.  I have a 'me' self, a personal
identity  that has common elements with other people that enables
me to be part of many groups--family, national,social, etc.  I
identify with  other deaf people and clip out articles wherever I
find them, for  example. the Denver Broncos football deaf black
player Kenny Walker.  I identify with him and root for him because
we have an element in common in our identities--deafness.

Nothing wrong with that. I just happen to share more with Deaf
people than just being "deaf" so this makes me have a Deaf self. It
doesn't mean you have to have the same nor did I state or imply
that. Your "me" self gives way to a collective self in times of
crisis. You label yourself as American or whatever group you
maintain a sense of loyalty to. When it's called upon, believe me,
your "me" yields to the collective "we." It's a big part of our
power sense to survive as a species or establishment(read
nation.).

[K I subscribe to a variety of Deaf publications and magazines not
only to learn more about the Deaf culture, but also to benefit from
the information to make my life easier. For instance, information
about TDDs, relay services, experiences of other deaf people to
show that I'm not alone in experiencing certain things.  For the
same reason,  I joined SHHH to make my life better and more
meaningful.

Nothing wrong with this either. I joined the National Space Society
and the Planetary Society for the same reason.

[K There are many things that could be said or
expressed, but writing this has lifted some of the load off my chest.

I'm glad it did lift a load off your chest, though I didn't write
my post for that purpose. I'm also glad you took the time to
express your position on the areas we are discussing. I appreciate
it.

[K The bottom line is, I'm not a hearing person and will never be
able to do many things  most hearing people enjoy,and I will not be
able to participate fully in their conversations and gatherings.
But, at the same time, I'm not a 'Deaf' person and won't be able to
participate fully in  [the Deaf world unless I learn sign language
and other cultural things.  I'm in between, and the idea of the
Deaf culture to be exclusive' is NOT a wise course to be pursued!

Let's get one thing clear. Being a part of the Deaf Culture IS NOT
TO BE EXCLUSIVE. People who are not a part of it somehow seem to
think their isolation from US grants them authority to define us.
That is an assumption akin to a foreign nation telling Americans
how to vote. We'd raise six kinds of Hades if someone did that.
Despite the fact that our government doe sthat very thing to other
countries. No less so do Deaf people bristle at outsiders thinking
they have authority to define us. We are not exclusive. I have
attended many Deaf Clubs and I always see hearies there. Many are
people who are relatives, yes. But may are also visitors who just
want to learn about the Deaf. We get exclusive only when some
audismistic person shows up and commences to belittle us. If a
person goes about insulting anyone's culture then that culture
group gets hot about it and rightly so. You're disrespecting them
and their way of life. How'd like them to do that to you? Always
such people come telling us or others what we can't do or how
pitiful and isolated we are and so on. We let these people know the
directions to the Satanic Kingdom and be done with them. We neither
want nor need them around us.
I don't think you fit this category. However,
you are assuming a bit much by claiming that being a part of Deaf
Culture means being exclusive. That's false.

[K I'm trying to meet everyone halfway, both hearing, Deaf and
deaf,and the desire of some 'Deaf' people to be exclusive does not
make things easier.

Meeting people half-way is the name of the game in mutual RESPECT
and cooperation. No one, and I mean no one, can ask for anything
more.  When you restate your position to say that "some" Deaf
people are exclusive, that's better. Every group has its eccentrics
and its bigots, but they do not reflect the attitudes of the group
entire. That's what some people insist on ignoring utterly when it
comes to minorities, women,and the Deaf.

[K Enough for now...I said too much!

No you didn't. You handled this the way disagreeing people on STE
SHOULD handle disagreements. You gave a sensible stating of your
position without INTENTIONAL put downs. That encourages me to keep
believing in my philosophy that people can disagree to all Hades
and gone and still be friends. Thank you for reinforcing my faith
in this outlook. I hope you post more.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: mess
From: Ron.Rothenberg@hnews.fidonet.org (Ron Rothenberg)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

 JN>> I used to find this true, but recently things have been changing.
 JN>> I have had APT. personel pull out a book of regs. telling what
 JN>> they would do  under the law and what they would'nt.

 JN>> I have also found that the "accessible" apt. are almost all one
 JN>> bedroom. That is a problem if you need more room.

Hi John -

There is a publication called the Apartment Guide, or some such,
in Phoenix and Sun Valley.  Check the display ads there and look
for a little universal wheelchair symbol in one of the bottom
corners.  Those with the symbols have accessible apartments -
both 1 and 2 bedroom units.  These are already accessible, and
frequently get rented to non-disabled, since no wheelchair users
are available.

I am a real estate broker, specializing in wheelchair accessible
housing.  We rent many units where the landlord will adapt the
apartments, too.  It pays to go in with a spirit of cooperation,
rather than a chip on your shoulder, even if you are met with
resistance.  If you are truly discriminated agaiust, leave and
file a complaint with HUD and the state Commission Against
Discrimination.  I have HUD complaint forms, if you need.  I've
always found that you get more flies with honey than with
vinegar.

I always try to sell modifications to landlords as
"improvements."   We try to make sure they are done well, and
improve the apartment, and then negotiate with the landlord not
to have to remove them.

=rsr=

When looking for an
accessible apartment:

*    State your needs clearly - use specific terms.  Say: "I need 18
     inches on either side of the toilet," not "I need a big
     bathroom."  Don't be shy when describing why you need a certain
     feature.  Knowing why helps the other person know if the
     apartment fits.  Try to differentiate between "musts" and
     "would-be-nice" features.

*    Be realistic - Few homes are perfect immediately.  Make sure the
     expensive modifications are there -  ramping, hallway size,
     bathroom size - but recognize that doors can be widened and
     light switches adapted cheaply.  Under the new Fair Housing Law
     the landlord must allow you to make your own reasonable
     adaptations.

*    Opportunity knocks - Check with your local housing agencies,
     rehab commission  or independent living center.  Landlords often
     call in search of tenants.  Check display ads in the newspaper
     for the universal wheelchair symbol.  This means that there are
     some accessible apartments in that building.  Look for ads in
     disability-related publications. [CB]

*    Enlist professional help - Call the office managers of several
     real estate agencies and ask for an agent who may have
     experience with wheelchair accessible housing.  Speak to several
     and then choose only one to work with, so there is an incentive
     for that agent to find you a home.

*    Know your rights - If you encounter discrimination, inform the
     landlord of your rights in a helpful way - don't be adversarial
     unless necessary.  The rights and needs of disabled people are
     new to some.  Many landlords don't know a companion or guide dog
     isn't considered a pet, or that you're entitled to make
     reasonable changes to make your apartment more livable.  If you
     don't tell them, they may never know.

*    New Construction = More accessibility (usually) - Most rental
     housing that recently went into service must have some units
     built to accessible or adaptable standards.

*    Need a lift? - If you live in a high-rise building, it's good to
     have more than one elevator so that you don't get stranded if
     one breaks.

*    In case of emergency - Is there an alternate accessible exit?[CB]

*    Change of season - When looking at a home in summer, consider
     the accessibility when there is ice and snow on the ground.

*    How's the neighborhood? - Check out curb-cuts and access to
     stores and transit in the area.

*    Can we park?  Is there HP parking nearby?  Does your vehicle fit
     into the garage.  Some raised-roof vehicles can not fit into
     standard garages.

*    Be kind to your landlord - Though it's the law, it's nice to
     receive a few strokes for being a good, accessible landlord.  If
     there are other vacant accessible units, let people know.  If
     accessible homes were always rented, more would be built.

*    Choose carefully! - Unless you're in a bind, take your time and
     find a home that's right for you.  Don't let initial
     discouragement trap you in a home that will send you looking
     again soon.  If you're happy with the home, consider a long-term
     lease.

*    For an accessible home - call *HomeBase Real Estate* at
     (617) 489-4812.

Ron Rothenberg is a real estate broker in Massachusetts.  He is
the owner of HomeBase Real Estate, a full-service residential
brokerage specializing in specific-needs homes and apartments.
He can be reached at (617) 489-4812 (VOICE) and    (617)
489-3848 (TDD)  or in the ABLED echo, or on the VIBUG BBS.

--- Via Silver Xpress V2.28
 * Origin: The Handicap News BBS (1-203-337-1607) (1:141/420)
--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!Ron.Rothenberg
Internet: Ron.Rothenberg@hnews.fidonet.org




------



Subject: legal questions
From: ristad@elan.princeton.edu (Eric Sven Ristad)
Organization: Princeton University, Dept. of Computer Science


Please help me with two questions I have:

1. How can I obtain a copy (or comprehensive summary) of the Federal
   disabilities act and of any related laws in New Jersey?
 (Although I have many questions about the law, one pressing question
 is whether a currently-inaccessible retail grocery store located in NJ
 is obligated under the law to make itself accessible to the handicapped.)

2. What (if any) legal remedies exist to force a person or company to
   comply with the disabilities act?
 I am interested in all legal courses of action that I could purse, in
 as much legally-accurate detail as possible.  (For example, how to
 start a class action suit against a private corporation for violation
 of disabilities laws.)

I am unfortunately unable to regularly read this newsgroup, so please
reply to me (ristad@princeton.edu) by email.  If there is interest, I
will summarize useful responses and post to the newsgroup.

Thank you,
Eric





------



Subject: Independent living center
From: Gordon.Gillesby@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Gordon Gillesby)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


BP**>From: person@plains.nodak.edu (Brett Person )
BP**>Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo
BP**>Message-ID: <20537@handicap.news>
BP**>Index Number: 20537

BP**>I'd like to correspond with anyone involved with independent living
BP**>centers. Good/bad experiences, write to me and tell me about it.
BP**>thanks

Greetings,

   I'd be happy to forward your request on.  Perhaps you could be a
little more specific as to what kind of information you seek and, if
you'd care to tell, what use you intend to put it to?

                                 Thanks

                                  glg

                           9203.25 - 14:20.54

 * OLX 2.2 * ZMODEM has bigger bits, softer blocks, and tighter ASCII

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Gordon.Gillesby
Internet: Gordon.Gillesby@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




------






                                ******

             End of Issue # 2586 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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