HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rkrithiv@pima.intel.com (Ramamurthy Krithivas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:31:53 GMT
Organization: ---------
NNTP-Posting-Host: pima.intel.com

From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan

> Perhaps because they fired missiles from Chariots? Look, Babloo,
> Mahabharat is a great novel, a fantastic story. It does teach
> you a lot ito social mores and values. But to say outright that
> everything written there is gospel truth is not very palatable,
> esp. when you make claims about nuclear bombs and aircraft. Like
> I'd said, Gene Roddenberry knows not the abc of hyperdrive...

  There was an interesting article in Hinduism Today. 

  Some institution associated  with Birla and other  institutions 
  funded by GOI, to inquire into the possibility of flying crafts 
  designed in ancient India. 

  By examining various Sanskrit Slokas from some VimaanaShaasthra, 
  they were able to get the know how to manufacture various alloys, 
  hithero unknown. 

  One of the alloys was that of lead and lead-oxide, when a laser 
  was allowed to strike on  the alloy, the  entire laser beam was 
  absorbed. Though a speculation, it was possible that this alloy 
  was used as a heat shield to crafts.It is very difficult to see
  what moral or social value  was intended to be conveyed through 
  such an alloy !!!
 
  There was a time during the Nazi Germany, when German scientists 
  used to pour into India, and buy any palm leaf inscriptions that 
  they could  lay their  hands on. Perhaps we have something, that 
  they wanted so badly, to aid their pre-war research machinery. 

  Perhaps there are so many things that  our ancestors had to give 
  to the progress  of mankind. And that  we do not know about them. 
  Perhaps it  is there  for us  to find  and prosper. Afterall our 
  ancestors  wouldn't  have  spent all  their time to find various 
  methods to teach us moral and social values. 

  And yes it takes  us just  a second  to dismiss  such notions as 
  fables and fiction.And if we disown every part of what we are as 
  fables  and stories, we refuse  to consider ourselves seriously. 
  We start refusing to listen to ourselves, and wait for the world 
  to tell us what we are. 

  Tipu Sultan one of  the  pioneers   of the art of rocket science. 

  Like the journals of today which  publish papers, perhaps it was 
  vogue in those days, to annex such discoveries through epics and 
  poems. In a country where written records of history is so much 
  absent, what better way to propogate .........

Krithi. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: narayana@oracorp.com (K. T. Narayana)
Subject: Re: Babri Masjid demolished
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:35:20 GMT

In article <Bz9IE3.AL0.1@cs.cmu.edu> pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) writes:
>In article <Bz8027.8K3@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>>In article <Bz7x9D.Kp3.1@cs.cmu.edu> pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) writes:
>>>In article <1766@esl.ESL.COM> rajan@bambam.uucp (Rajan Kanitkar) writes:
>>>>In article <Bz2F2t.6uv.1@cs.cmu.edu> pjn+@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) writes:
>>>>
>>If Pjn can tell us (define for us) what is hinduism, i can
>>appreciate it. More importantly, I would like to know what
>>is pacifist hinduism. I don't think evengandhi had such a
>>notion of hinduism. From all that I read,  Gandhi's notion 
>>of hinduism can be summed up in three words. "Truth is Brahman"
>>That is not anything new that Gandhi came about. It is the the
>>soul and the essence of the Upanishads. I would like to know from 
>>PJN what is pacifist hinduism? why should any one convert to one
>>such? Indeed how does one know that one is not a hindu?
>
>for over a quarter of a century is pacifist in nature. I have no
>intention of issuing "fatwas" about who a good "Hindu" is. I, however,
>am of convinced that the logical extension of the path of BJP/VHP/RSS
>combine will attempt to do so and will turn against what they call bad
>Hindus after they are "done with" the Muslims one way or other. I

Can you explain to me what is a logical extension of BJP/VHP/RSS
path. Is it a conservative extension? If it is alogical extension,
then it must be consistent with hinduism, isn't it? That there are
no fatwas today is then an inconsistency, isn't it? Think about?
More importantly, read some literature and find out the evolution
of thought, the individuality of thought, and sheer elegance of
intellectualism encouraged by the Hindu philosophical thought
before coming up with you political statements.

>haven't found any convincing arguments to convince me otherwise from
>the supporters of the B/V/R combine. I will resent all attempts to
>believe you have no better argument.
>
>
>PJN
>
>-- 
>---
...kt
>Robotics Institute, CMU			pjn@cs.cmu.edu
>Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>---

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: amit@math15.math.umbc.edu (Amit Bhattacharyya (GS))
Subject: Addition to MCI Friend's & Family Program
Originator: amit@math15.math.umbc.edu
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Maryland Baltimore County
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:55:40 GMT

Hi guys,
	Here is a new deal from MCI. Since I haven't seen any posting 
regarding this, I have decided to post one.
	From Dec. 15, 1992, MCI is allowing two international numbers in
the Friends & Family list. So, one can get 20% discount on two numbers in
India. I have already activated one more number in the list.
	Hope, this information helps.

Amit.

P.S. I have nothing to do withMCI or any other telephone company. I have just
From: srin@cs.cornell.edu (Aravind Srinivasan)
Subject: Thiruppaavai Verses
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Cornell Univ., Ithaca NY
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:55:53 GMT


Hi, November 15th is the first day of the Thamizh month Maargazhi.
Dr. K. Srinivasan (srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca) has translated the
"Thiruppaavai" of Saint AandaaL into English, and has also prepared
a transliterated version of each verse in his ADAMI transliteration
scheme. I'll be posting the translation and transliteration of
each verse, one per day during the month of Maargazhi, on
Dr. Srinivasan's behalf.

Regards,
Aravind.
srin@cs.cornell.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian.telugu
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:08:52 GMT

In article <BzD732.BtM@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>>I think you missed the point still. The article says that in TN there
>>is a burgeoning industry (the title of the article "degrees of deceit")
>>which manufactures degrees, and thesis etc. under fake US university names
>>and then issues it for the buyers; the clientile it was stated in the 
>>article to be the Tamils; particularly polititions, musicians, amongst
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>Good Warning. Next time any of the scientific people reading the
>newsgroups hire a 'politician', they will make sure.
>
>I do not think they will refuse it to non-Tamils. You know that fake
>caste and birth certificates in Madras are issued to all irrespective of
>place of birth, as long as the right dakshina is given.
>
>>others. Such fake degrees are found useful within TN. The article mentions
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>this. That is the reason why I sounded an alert to check the degree
>>credentials of candidates; normally in US people tend to ignore that 
>>aspect.                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>...kt
>>.
>
>I thought your article (not India Today) said that:
>In article <BzD2Ev.7Bq@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
> (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>>Next time you hire an RA/TA/postdoc or admit a student to a graduate program
>>from TamilNadu, take care to see whether the degrees are for real or
>>fake.
>>
>>Just to inform our inquiring sci readers!
>>...kt
>
>That looked like an attempt to disgrace just the Tamil graduate students and
>researchers in the US trying for employment in the US. Little does one
>realize, that for the Americans, Tamilians are not any different from
>Telugus.
>
>KS
>

That is because the names of some of the universities are real, and the
article contains only references to TN. If the article had mentioned
that people from all over India are vying for those degrees, then I would
have mentioned the same. Look I did not disgrace anybody. It is your
fellow Tamils who are disgracing Tamils. If you can learn that and think
about it I will be happy.

Think it this way. If the fake degree has gained some currency  in TN,
there is no reason why the guy who got those degrees in the first
instance does not try his luck in US of A. 

...kt
From: jim@sytex.com (Jim Arnold)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: US Sprint
Keywords: Long Distance
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 20:02:37 EST
Organization: Sytex Communications, Arlington V.A. * node 1

v118t398@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu writes:

> Hi,
> Does anyone know if US Sprint will continue
> their $1.23 /min (and $0.98 /min for the number
> called most in India) special to India after
> Dec 31st or the rate will be $1.55 /min from 
> Jan 1st ?

They told me that they would *not* continue it.  I hope I'm wrong.

jim

---
jim@sytex.com
Sytex Communications, Arlington VA (703) 358-9022 (8,n,1)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:39:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.054849.25815@usl.edu> zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar) writes:
>In article <Bz5I1n.5uE@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.202832.119630@marshall.wvnet.edu> yea027@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>>>In Response to an article on the Indian net:
>>>
>>>Please tell me which temples Muhammad broke? I really am not familiar with
>>>this.  Muhammad broke IDOLS so to get people to worship the one ALLAH that has
>>>no partners.  Idol worship takes people from the true path of GOD Allah 
>>>and takes them to polytheism and thinking that a statue can help them.
>>>
>>
>>Actually there is a parallel to this! We have one dravidian racist known as
>>EVR and his followers who went and broke the idols in temples. But they
>>were doing it to show their hatred for Brahmins. Was this idol breaking
>>by mohammad some sort of hate release exercise of him and his followers.
>>But if allah is one, why did not mohammad consider that all idols are
>>nothing bu t allah. What is this excuse that you are offereing for
>>mohammad who went and broke idols.
>>
>>>A Mosque is a holy house of Allah.  When Muhammad went to the Ka'ba, he DID not
>>>distroy the Ka'ba that housed the mutliple 'gods' but rather tore down the
>>>idols that stood in it.
>>>
>>>
>
>The "Kaaba"(the cubical structure) was built by Prophet Ibrahim and 
>his son Ismael for the worship of the one true God. It was built as 
>a symbol of monotheism. But in the succeeding centuries, the people 
>deviated from the Abrahimic (Islamic) religion and placed the idols in the 
>Kaaba. So it was logical that the house of Allah be cleansed of the objects
>which are in total contradiction of monotheism, the belief in the unity of
>God. It is very obvious that you failed to understand the concept of 
>the unity of God. How can a multitude of idols be considered as Allah.
>Its ridiculous! 
>

That is where the problems between Hinduism and Islam lay! You consider 
that montheism is in worship. Hindus consider monotheism is not in worship.
Worship accomodates diversity. But the Gods who are different represent
a single Supreme Brahman. That is the Montheistic aspect of Hinduism. 
That is the reason why Hinduism tolerates so much diversity in worship.
It is not riduclulous as you cliam it to be. It is theological that man
can find the Supreme Brahman in every thing. 

That is the reason why Hindus consider idol breaking by Mohammad is
a Sin; not so much because of islam, but so much as an act of vandetta
against a religous worship. Islamic rulers in India did not go and tear
down the temples for nothing; it was sanctioned by certain actions of
their prophet.

>Zafar.
>>..kt
>
...kt
>

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Subject: Re: If Babri gets rebuild, would Pak rebuild ....
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:04:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.160451.21987@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse) writes:
>bhides@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Sandhiprakas J Bhide) writes:
>> So many Paki's really came out strongly.  The question I have
>> is if India rebuilds the Babri masjid, would Pakistan rebuild
>> all the temples in Pakistan and in Jammu/Kashmir and issue an
>> apology for all the temples that were destroyed for last umtin
>> years !!   Just a curious question, that is all.
>
>>Straight Question .. Straight Answers !!!
>
>Straight answer: Yes.
>
>This has been publicized on the net so much I wonder whether this guy
>ever reads articles other than the ones he posts...
>
>peace
>
>-Mujtaba Ghouse


Were they just waiting for the Mosque to be destroyed and rebuilt?
Why did they not start work on the temples before?

Another straight question.

Manoj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 15 DEC 92 22:13:08    


In article <2al2t8k@rpi.edu>, divaka@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Ajay Divakaran) writes...

>              It is a sad day indeed when a "pseudo-secularist" like me has
>to speak up for the rights of the BJP led state governments. But constitutional
>rights cannot be denied, even though I thoroughly abhor the sectarian view
>of the BJP. 
>                                                    ajay

	Thanks a lot. Have you also noticed that High Court Judges (idiots)
	are also acting very fast. They could not take decision on
	Ram Janma Bhumi for years, but they have overturned acquisition
	of land by BJP govt in just a week after coming into power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.

WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.

-- Virendra Verma
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:10:37 GMT



PVNR is now going overboard in his reaction to the Ayodhya blunder.

If he wants to dismiss govts. he must also include the govt. of Maharashtra
where the largest number of death occurred in the aftermath. 

He seems to be playing the old Congress game of manipulating tragedies to
turn them into their favour.

This action will only worsen things.

--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: renjit_d1@verifone.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Looking out for Surendra Kumar Mandal
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:55:23 -1000
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI


SUBJECT : Looking out for Mr. Surendra Kumar Mandal


	I am Renjit Darwin working in VERIFONE SOFTWARE SYSTEMS,e
Mr. Surendra Kumar Mandal. He is currently in U.S.A...(I guess he is 
some where in Minnesota..)
Please reply...
 Regards/ Renjit
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Wormallic
Date: 12 Dec 1992 12:18:20 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Ed Crick writes: 
 >In article <1gbe2eINN6n2@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
 >>
 >>
 >>T'was once a guy named WORMA,
 >>Hate Moslems his only Karma,
 >>He called himself a Hindoo,
 >>And Cow-meat wasn't fundoo
 >>But ate all else without any Sharma
 >>
 >>bk
 >>
 >A hindu fanatic from DEC,
 >His country he sought to protect,
 >From the eaters of meat
 >And the sins they bequeath.
 >But his rantings have an impotent effect.
 >
 >Ed
 >
	
	Worma is a total Jerkoo,
	At Christians he is smirkoo,
	Claims to be civilized,
	But brain is undersized,
	Has the mantality of a moronic Clerkoo!

	FFT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: swami1@troy.cc.bellcore.com (swaminathan,kashi r)
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 21:11:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.201049.10383@udel.edu> godura@oin.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura) writes:
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>_____________________FARTWA          FARTWA        FARTWA___________________
                      ^^^^            ^^^^          ^^^^
Is that how it is spelt, or is it freudian?
>
>Repent, sinner .. your time has come !
>Under the powers bestowed on me by the supreme council of the Khomeni,
>I hereby issue a holy fartwa and demand that all brethren of our
                       ^^^^
>glorious cult hereby make it their goal in life to have your head for
>the issuance of a blasphemous report against this noble and pure land of
>Pakistan.
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>__________________________________________________________________________
>-- 
>Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40793 soc.culture.indian.telugu:1393
From: dxn@elm.wpi.edu (Deepak Narain)
Newsgroups: wpi.students.desis,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu
Subject: Re: lofty ideals
Date: 15 Dec 1992 02:07:40 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, WPI
NNTP-Posting-Host: elm.wpi.edu

From udumudi@vanilla (u v babu srinivas):
>His reply stung. "The ideal of humanity in the West," he began softly,
>"is perhaps lower, but their practice of it is very much more thorough
>than ours. We rest content with a lofty ideal and are slow or lazy in
>its practice."

If we are talking about the same Gandhi here, there is also another
story about him...this is how I rememeber it:

Reporter: What do you think about western civilization.
Gandhi:   I think that it would be a good idea.

Draw your own conclusions.

--
deepak
From: sramacha@aludra.usc.edu (Sudarshan Ramachandran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Who destroyed the mosque?
Date: 13 Dec 1992 13:47:53 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec13.211510.17119@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ramasubr@ecn.purdue.edu writes:
>Hey,
>
>How can we assume that the stupid mob was a Hindu mob?
>Why couldn't it be that a bunch of muslims who wanted the mosque rebuilt by the government destroyed it?
>
>Subu




What next ? 

San Andreas went to Ayodhya for a hike.... ?!
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: This is for the "Secularists"
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:46:32 GMT

(Ramakrishna Chada) writes:
>>(Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>>
>>>Well, let us just say that Leander Paes of India gets
>>>to the US Open Tennis Finals and is slated to meet
>>>Andre Agassi. There is no question as to who I shall
>>>root for.
>>>
>>>If an Indian who has become an American citizen roots
>>>for Paes, is that treason?

>>What a comparison...its a question of how much you canm stretch yourselves
>>into justifying what is so obviously improper and unpatriotic.
>>This is not a fair comparison. First thing is US and India are not enemy
>>countries always at each other's throats. Next thing is that any sporting
>>event between india and US, I believe is never taken as some jihad...for
>>pakistan, any such event is so..I recall an interview by Zaheer abbas when
>>he was the captain saying so..Also , even if there were to be support from
>>the indian community here to an indian team, it is not along religious lines.

I have several issues with this line of reasoning:

1. You extrapolate the behavior of a few individuals to the entire
   Muslim population of India. Rhetoric 101 tells us that this is
   an old trick in the book. So, let us not fall for that.

2. You seem to find favoritism based on nationalist pride acceptable.
   You find favorotism based on athletic ability, irrespective of
   nationality, acceptable. But, somehow you find favorotism based
   on religious affinity unacceptable. Why is that? And why should
   everyone subscribe to this? Why can't someone choose to root for
   someone for reasons of faith? Why is it so inherently deplorable?
   If it is, why don't we speak out against Hindu Samajs and Islamic
   Congregations? (At the risk of sounding self-centered, I like
   John McEnroe, Stefan Edberg and Peter Sampras. Everyone else,
   including Vijay Amritraj, Ramanathan and Ramesh Krishnans are poor
   excuses for tennis players. Gee, am I a traitor now? ;-)

3. You and others have readily concluded that the behavior of the
   homogeneous (?) Muslim community in India is driven by one motivation-
   spite for India. I never got that impression and I am sure I can
   find one other person who agrees with me. 

4. The stuff about countries being enemies is peripheral to the main
   issue. India, one may argue, is in an economic war with US.

I am not out to show that I am a great secularist, but I see a 
woeful lack of perspective in this thread and people who impute
uncharitable motives to Muslims in India, IMHO, are flouting
rules of logical discourse left and right.

Satya Prabhakar
--
______________________________________________________________
Tell me what you pay attention to and I will tell you who you are!
					-Ortega Y' Gasset
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi)
Subject: A poem for Vikram and the like...
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:27:31 GMT

>From: v999r9ne@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Vikram S Sinha)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
>Subject: This is for the "Secularists"
	
	[stuff deleted]

>Pakistan) . Frankly we have tolerated enough nonsense from these bastards
>, they live and thrive in India but remain loyal to Pakistan.Any Hindu 
>wants to be a secularist and continue to put up with these parasites should
>have himself or herself checked up. Offcourse there are exceptions to the 
>rule ,but they are few in number. Frankly Indian Muslims are a blemish
>on the the teachings of the prophet, who preached peace and understanding
>and not waging jihad after jihad.Finally as far as Hindu secularists are
>concerned I just have one thing to say FU_K YOU!!!
>                                  Regards'
>                                Vikram Sinha.


	A cretin in Buffalo,
	in his own way, hello;
	to the binding unbound, he
	barks, "I am one of those!"
	To a basket of bitter mangoes, pointing,
	anointing in tongue of toes,
	"Hear me now! I am one of those!"

	To chuckling secularists, he,
 	"Be warned, 
	 I am scorned! 
	 I may capitalize my love 
         and bugger you!"
	And yet another motley-ed cacophone
	of bellow and self-important drone, 
	exposes himself offering us a tad,
	and a bit more than he is worth.
	
 	

	Kumar

ps:    ...do go away, kind sir.    *two scoops of sarcasm on 'kind'* 
-- 
                                ********************************************
   Kumar Yelubandi               **  A wise man learns more from a fool  **
   (good wines = good times!)    **  than vice versa...or so they say    **
   ...in the year 2525...        **           -  Drink up -              **