From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:19:13 GMT

rm> Randy Murrish
gs> Gary Strand

gs> I don't see the relevance of the suicide of a troubled man with what the
    true effects of #2 are going to be.

rm> What ARE the true effects of CO-2 going to be?  It already denies homosex-
    uals equal rights, what else do you want CO-2 to do?

  It does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of the
  state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and it denies
  gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.
  It does not permit gay-bashing.

gs> People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons, some "honorable", some 
    not, some that can be seen as "martyrdom", most not. This particular act 
    is hardly what I would expect from an individual disappointed at the pas-
    sage of #2.

rm> What do you know about discrimination?  What would YOU expect from an in-
    dividual that believes that society has turned its back on him/her? True,
    Marty had a lot of things going against him, but the passage of CO-2 is
    what pushed him over the edge.

  It's too bad that he needed others for his own self-validation. I'm of the
  school that says "If you don't like me, you don't have to be around me."
  I never look to others for my self-worth. That is something you and only
  you can give yourself. Expecting others to give you a reason to like your-
  self is setting you up for the kind of tragedy Marty had.

gs> To imply, as the article does, and as the post attempts to imply, that #2
    was somehow responsible for this man's death is emotional manipulation at
    its worst.

rm> Marty specifically mentioned CFV in his note.  He also mentioned Will Per-
    kins (the president of CFV).  His death was caused, in part, by the passage
    of CO-2.

  A very troubled man says X, therefore X is true? People have committed sui-
  cide who blamed their suicide on space aliens, government mind-control, and
  so on. I wouldn't take the words of a deeply disturbed individual as being
  objective. All the rest of us noted that #2 passed, why didn't all of us
  kill ourselves? Yes, #2 pushed this particular man over the edge, but his
  reality was so messed-up to begin with that using his suicide as a means to
  inspire repeal of #2 is cheap.

gs> Quite frankly, I'm irritated and ashamed that his personal tragedy can be
    so cavalierly exploited for potential political gain. Aren't there better
    arguments available besides this one? It's cheap and tawdry, and hardly
    respectful of the man.

rm> I knew Marty, and the passage of CO-2 was a tremendous blow to his 
    self-esteem.  How would you like it if Colorado voters passed an amendment
    to the constitution that denied basic civil rights to people named Gary?

  I'd tell 'em to f*ck off. I certainly wouldn't kill myself. One simply lets
  the "other side" win when you give up like that.

rm> What Marty, and most homosexuals are looking for is acceptance of them-
    selves from their environment and the people around them.  What Marty felt
    on Wednesday, Nov 4 1992 was rejection.

  That's his problem. I'm not an uncaring person, but to derive one's pride
  and self-esteem only from the kind words and praise of others makes one far
  too dependent on the goodwill of others. Indeed, it almost puts one in a 
  position to play emotional blackmail, because one can hold the threat of
  something "really bad" if others don't give their approval of you. It's
  not a very mature way of dealing with yourself.

rm> What most people fail to understand is that most homosexuals view the
    passage of CO-2 as rejection of themselves.  It is no wonder that CFV
    fears for the safety of its members.  I doubt that any group in society
    would feel any different if their basic civil rights were denied.

  But it all depends on how you react to this rejection. Committing suicide
  isn't the way to deal with it. Getting angry and changing things is.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF