HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schneide@scubed.com (Steve Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Aviation BOF in Baltimore
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:45:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: scubed.1992Aug19.194523.4415
Distribution: na
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA


As a result of some email between William LeFebvre and myself,  an
aviation BOF session (BOF=Birds of a Feather) is being organized for 
the USENIX UNIX Security Symposium in Baltimore, MD, on the evening 
of Tuesday, September 15.   

The symposium is being held at Baltimore's Sheraton Inner Harbor Hotel.  
A meeting room in the hotel will be scheduled for the BOF at 8pm 
on the 15th.

The BOF session will be open to anyone -- you don't have to be 
registered for the symposium to come to this!  Hopefully this will
take on the flavor of a rec.aviation fly in where we can match faces
to names and trade "There I Was" stories.  So all of you folks that
live in or near Baltimore,  please think about stopping by.

This will be one week after the Aerodrome '92 WWI airshow in 
Guntersville, AL,  so I should have some good stories and maybe 
some pictures to share.  Perhaps someone who went to Oshkosh would
like to stop by and share their experiences?

If you think you might be able to show up, please send me email.

Steve

___________________________________________________________________________
Stephen Schneider                 S-CUBED               3398 Carmel Mtn Rd.
schneide@scubed.com           (619) 587-7295            San Diego, CA 92121
From: luke@cs.city.ac.uk (Luke Whitaker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:10:53 GMT
Organization: City University

In <cshotton-200892125451@oac2.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> cshotton@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Chuck Shotton) writes:

>Unless you plan a very poor pattern in a glider, it's virtually impossible
>to put a glider on the runway with the wing stalled. Most likely, the
>spoilers are out, but the wing is still flying. Close the spoilers sometime
>just after you touch down and watch what happens. See? You're flying the
>glider on. 

Just because closing the spoilers unstalls the wing doesn't imply that the
wing isn't stalled while the spoilers are out. Spoilers will decrease lift as
well as increasing drag. Hence closing the spoilers will increase lift which
will unstall a wing that is only just stalled. (IMHO)

Luke
From: teener@apple.com (Michael Teener)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Bellevue, WA, suggestions?
Date: 12 Aug 92 04:19:20 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Organization: Apple Computer

I'm going to be flying up to the Seattle area for a standards meeting on
the 18th & 19th, but the only fields in Washington that have seen the
Cheetah are Evergreen in Vancouver and Whidbey Airpark near Langley. The
meeting is in Bellevue, but there doesn't seem to be a field nearby. Can
anyone offer suggestions on fields, FBOs, etc. Mogas would be a definite
plus!

===== Michael Teener, Plumbing Architect, Apple Computer, Inc. =====
================ teener@apple.com == 408-974-3521 ==================
======== Cheetah N9900U (the one with the crazy paint job) =========
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: pjern@chinet.chi.il.us (Phil Jern)
Subject: Back from vacation
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:25:29 GMT

Well, I'm back from vacation, didn't do any serious aviating, but did have
a couple of interesting things happen.

Wednesday August 5th (as I remember) I was washing the car on the East
side of Indianapolis when I saw a B-17-shaped shadow racing across the open
field next to the car wash.  I looked up, and sure enough, a silver B-17
was proceeding Westbound at maybe 2000' AGL.  I assumed it was heading for
OSH, but was not sure.  Anyone know where it was going?

Sunday, August 9th (?) I was in the car on I-65 heading towards Chicago,
when I saw a car with Virginia (I think) plates that said "IFLY4FUN".  The
car had IAC stickers on it, but I could not determine if there was anything
to identify the driver as a fellow netter.  Maybe we need a bumper sticker,
as well as patches?  I waved at the driver, and gave him a 'thumbs up' on
the plates, and he spotted my AOPA sticker and returned the wave.

I took my son to the Air Force museum in Dayton, where he overdosed on
F-16's flying in and out of Wright-Pat.  We had a great time.


-- 
Phil Jern  ---  pjern@chinet.chi.il.us  --- PROFS: CHGVMIC1(PJERN)
My opinions are probably not IBM-Compatible, and represent only
my own warped sense of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier)
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:10:27 GMT

In <cshotton-200892125451@oac2.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> cshotton@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Chuck Shotton) writes:

"|"In article <20AUG199210280289@vxcrna.cern.ch>, cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike
"|"Cohler) wrote:
"|"> 
"|"> 
"|"> >As for how hard/easy it was, the flying part was no problem. The landings
"|"> >are substantially different. Most gliders are landed by flying them on, and
"|"> >that technique just leads to the "hop, skip, jump" style of power landings.
"|"> > 
"|"> I disagree with the statement above.  Here glider pilots are NEVER taught
"|"> to fly on a landing.  ALL instructors in gliding are required to teach fully
"|"> held off landings.   There are possibly still a few ancient instructors
"|"> around who were trained in the middle ages who might think that flown on
"|"> landings are the right thing, but this is NOT BGA POLICY in the UK.
"|"> Hence taking a spam can and doing the same tecnique of fully held off
"|"> landing usually reults in very little problem.
"|"> 

"|"How often do you land a glider with the wing stalled? I'll bet never. The
"|"point I was making is that power pilots are trained to land with the wheels
"|"touching the runway at the point the wing stalls.

You fly the glider level at about a foot off the ground and as the airspeed washes 
off you move the stick back progressively to try to maintain flight. Eventually the 
wings are no longer generating sufficient lift and the glider settles to the ground.
You can do this with or without spoilers out.

"|"Unless you plan a very poor pattern in a glider, it's virtually impossible
"|"to put a glider on the runway with the wing stalled. Most likely, the
"|"spoilers are out, but the wing is still flying. Close the spoilers sometime
"|"just after you touch down and watch what happens. See? You're flying the
"|"glider on. Even if it's a "fully held off" landing, if spoilers are
"|"involved the effect is the same. Land a power plane at the same relative
"|"speed, with the wing still flying, and the slightest bump sends you back in
"|"the air again.

I'm not following what you're trying to say. Spoilers "spoil" lift. The wing
stalls at a higher airspeed with the spoilers out. I agree that I can take off
again if I put the spoilers away, but if I keep them out I don't see how you
can say the wing is still flying since it is stalled in its current configuration.

Question: If you have the engine throttled back so that it isn't generating any
significant thrust (or if your engine fails) aren't you just like a glider? 

BTW there was a thread over a year ago discussing glider landings and low energy
vs high energy landing techniques. I'm not avocating one or the other I'm just
suggesting both are possible.


Ron Gaynier
From: lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller)
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:17:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.234221.16412@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>By the way, in Southern California, there is a set of preferred routings,
>called "Golf routes", which will give you a very good idea of what to expect
>from ATC if you file IFR.

	Unfortunately, the actual clearance is often quite
	different from these established Golf routes.

	Because of the insane complexity of the LA airspace,
	I'm of the "always file IFR" school.  The risks and
	hassles of VFR just aren't worth it to me (particularly
	when flying south out of Santa Monica or Van Nuys).

-- 
Larry Miller		The Aerospace Corporation
lmiller@aero.org	PO Box 92957		
310-336-5597		LA, CA 90009-2957
From: martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:58:45 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: IFR/Semi-Auto Horror, Aerobatics, & maybe some other stuff
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: Usenet 3.0

> (quoting from memory) .. customs was upset at Bill's semi-automatic rifle,
> which was banned in Canada.

Banned? Since when? I my guess is that you either had some exotic looking
piece of hardware, or an ignorant customs officer, or a combination of the
two. Personally, I have not had any problems taking my handguns back and
forth over the border (with the correct paperwork), but I have heard some
stories where people did, due to lack of training on the custom's part.
Most likely, you were doing something perfectly legal. What type was it,
anyways?

On to a new topic. How many aerobatic netters are there out there? In the
last week, I have heard an Eagle and a S1S mentioned.

Martin Langhammer (Owner of many guns, but only one Pitts.)
From: chem4-aa@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lonnie C. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: DME Questions
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:50:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug17.183024.14871@mksol.dseg.ti.com> carruth@mksol.dseg.ti.com (matthew carruth) writes:
>It is possible to id DME the same way a VOR or NDB can be handled.  I have
>several questions about this:
>
>1) Why is it almost never done?

Beats me. I check it. Since the VOR selector would "automatically" select
the appropriate DME frequency, I suppose one could reasonably assume that
all would be well, ... except when it isn't!  No one has berated me yet for
identifying the DME, but if they do, it will be pleasing for me to have
provided them with some amusement.

>2) Is the ID on the same carrier as the VOR signal?

I'm not a radio-person, so, I don't know from "carrier", _but_, when you
select a VOR frequency, you will receive the appropriate DME identification
and distance information, if there is no malfunction, if you can select DME
on the radio audio select panel, or it's equivalent. You know, I have never
thought of it before, but I have no idea whether there is a volume control
for the DME.  I'll check this Saturday.

>3) Is the ID the same as the VOR signal, but at different rate?

Three repeats of the VOR ID are followed by one DME ID, and then the whole
thing is repeated. The DME has a higher pitch, as I recall.

>4) Is the lack of indication on a DME display a valid indication of
>   an unreliable signal and vice versa?

That seems pretty accurate. Well, it would be hard to tell if the problem
were in the receiver or the transmitter without trying out another station
or NAV radio. On this general topic, any indication of unreliability would
have to reduce the importance of the device (DME here) in question. As in, a
second VOR for triangulation, or especially, acquiring some VMC conditions
would become much more important than a flakey DME (depending on
circumstances).

Lonnie
-- 
Lonnie C. Martin    lonnie@hydrogen.cchem.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy Middleton)
Subject: soaring near Seattle?
Organization: MFCF
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:00:30 GMT

Are there any glider operations within about 2 hours drive of Seattle?
Thanks...

 -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo		gamiddleton@math.waterloo.edu
		(+1 519 885 1211 x3472)		gamiddleton@math.uwaterloo.ca
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Number of U.S. Pilots  (was Number of small aircraft wanted)
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.k0#nvw=.hchong
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <1992Aug17.030647.27239@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, by esd3@po.CWRU.Edu (Elisabeth S. Davidson):
> 
> In a previous article, hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins) says:
> 
>>Okay, here are the "Active Certificated Pilots" numbers as reported
>>in _AOPA's_Aviation_USA_ 1992 edition.  Data is from 1990.
>>
>>                              Total          Women
>>Pilot Certificates Held      702 659        40 515

Hhhmmm... taking into consideration that US pop is about 250m, that
means about 1 out of 400 person is a certified pilot, and taking
the small numbers of women, that means about 1 out of 200 men is a pilot!

Isn't that right?
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:28:15 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug19.151636.11102@sdf.lonestar.org>, rjohnson@sdf.lonestar.org (Robert C. Johnson) writes:
- these funky looking things called TRSA's.  Huh?  OK, go to the AIM and
- check it out.  The AIM says generally that a TRSA is a area
- where stage III radar services are provided.  Pilots are encouraged
- to participate, but not required.  OK, great.  So I can just fly right
- through a TRSA and not worry about a thing?  I guess what I'm asking
- for here is some real world experience with TRSA's.  Is it as
- simple as the AIM makes them seem?  If I want it, it's there, if
- I don't, I don't have to do anything except fly along in an
- uncontrolled (from the ground) bliss?  Any experiances would be
- welcome!


Here's how I explain the difference between TRSA's and ARSA's.  It helps to
understand the historical aspects of them.  The TRSA system was developed
when radar was still fairly rare.  A TRSA on a map says "Gee whiz, they've
got this newfangled RAY-DAR thing down there, if you want you can call up
and they'll watch your blip for you."

Nowadays, the ARSA age, radar is fairly prevalent in most areas.  So the gee-
whiz aspect of the TRSA means little.  An ARSA means "we're big, we're bad,
and you better talk to us if you want to come in here."

The confusion is that the names sound the same, the airports served are 
roughly the same size, and the areas & sizes are similar.  What's the 
difference?  The answer is to understand that due to the historical
circumstances of their creation, TRSA's and ARSA's are actually quite 
different in INTENTION.

--Andy    PP-ASEL-IA IGI    stadler@apple.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: maples@Cadence.COM (Ken Maples)
Subject: McCoy Avionics - Instr. Light. Sys. 
Keywords: McCoy ILS 
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:34:44 GMT

Does anyone have any experience with the ILS (Instrument Lighting System) from
McCoy Avionics in Ohio?  This is a instrument panel overlay that includes 
embedded lighting.  The ads I have seen look pretty good and my panel 
certainly needs a facelift but the people at McCoy are unable to provide
anyone as a reference.  They say the product is still pretty new and they
never asked any of their customers to be references.  I wonder if I'm going
to be a guinea pig.   Anyone with experience with the ILS or McCoy?

Ken Maples
Cadence Design Systems
San Jose, Ca
maples@cadence.com
From: Michael.Wheeley@mixcom.mixcom.com (Michael.Wheeley)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Orlando
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:42:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Aug18.004231.11682
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

Will be visiting Orlando, Florida this weekend 22 Aug. Can anyone recommend
any schools that don't have a booking problem that can give me some local
tuition/check ride Cessna 152 and whose prices are reasonable. Is flying
around Orlando recommended. I'm PPL with 55hours.

nb. I remember seeing a similar article here about a week ago but haven't
seen any replies.

Michael.

-- 
Michael.Wheeley@mixcom.mixcom.com
Milwaukee Wisconsin. (Where's The Bubbler??)
Brit's across America.
From: brianh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: I give up...
Date: 13 Aug 1992 16:19:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo

In article <BsxHA5.JvD@world.std.com> anderson@world.std.com (Dave Anderson) writes:
>From yesterday's Boston Area Forecast synopsis section:
 [ deleted ]
>  SYNOPSIS...09Z CDFNT EXTDG FROM NS ACRS CAPE COD AND DELMARVA PEN
>  TO SWRN NC AND NRN MS WILL MOV SLOLY EWD THRU 03Z. SFC RDG BLDS
>  SLOLY EWD ACRS AREA TO W OF FNT. ...CUNDY...
>  
>Excuse me, but, qu'est-ce que c'est un "CUNDY"?  

Now this one is *easy* -  "CUNDY" is the name of the weather specialist
who prepared the Area Forecast!

Actually this information can be useful, as each forecaster seems to have
his/her own biases and style.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:38:28 GMT

In <20AUG199210280289@vxcrna.cern.ch> cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:

>from the 40 hours as follows:  For a Bronze level glider pilot, the minimum
>hours becomes 23 , to get the PPL , and you need to do the General Flight Test
>and the Navigation Flight Test, as well as take the writtens.  For a Silver 'C'
                                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>level glider pilot the minimum hours to PPL becomes 12 hours.  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

goody! goody! goody!  This was actually one of the reason why I want to
do the PPL in UK.  I just recently managed to get the medical for PPL
from the CAA and am planning to start taking lessons toward the PPL in
Northern Ireland.  I will let you know how I am doing :-)  (It has been
a while that I want to do it,  but these things take time...)

>>The other "novelty" I ran into was dealing with ATC and the radio a LOT
>>more than in gliders. Besides that, you just have to get used to the
>>built-in thermal strapped to the nose.
>> 
>I agree here, and the use of radio is an importand new skill to be learned.
>In fact it is useful to a glider pilot occasionally too.... he just might
>one day need to talk to a ground station to request a radar let-down !!

I have been flying gliders in Switzerland for a while, and radio
procedures are definitely something you must know about if you want to
do any interesting flights there (gliders or else);  I guess it all
depends on where you actually fly;  pilots used to crowded airspace
should not have much problems to make the transition.

When I grow up I wanna be a tug pilot too! :-)


-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Clearing customs
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:07:17 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.041213.17510@telebit.com>, brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman) writes:
> ron@turing.toronto.edu (Ron Wessels) writes:
> 
> >Yes, really!  In fact, the customs offical we had seemed genuinely
> >disappointed that we >had<, in fact, put "adcus" on our 2.5hr flight
> >plan, so he could not impound our airplane.  He even boasted that
> >he had impounded one "just last week".  This was at St. Clair County
> >airport in Port Huron, Michigan (PHN).
> 
> DON'T COUNT ON "ADCUS"!!!  FSS provides that service as a _courtesy_,
> and if they forget to pass the word along to Customs, it falls on the
> PILOT'S head.  Specifying "ADCUS" on your flight plan doesn't mean didley,
> as far as Customs is concerned.
>
> It is much better to call Customs yourself before departure, to advise
> them of your ETA; make sure to note the name and badge number of the
> Customs agent you speak with, in case there are any problems later.

This is good advice.  I've had exactly this problem, where we checked 
ADCUS on the flight plan form leaving Canada, but Customs was never notified.
That resulted in a fairly substantial delay when we arrived in the U.S.

-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Subject: Re: Dip Gauges
Reply-To: reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack)
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:54:40 GMT


In article <1992Aug13.121728.1780@nlm.nih.gov>, masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
|>In article <Lyon_Jim-120892141323@130.252.133.166> Lyon_Jim@Tandem.Com (Jim Lyon) writes:
|>>
|>>While enroute to Oshkosh '90, in a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks,
|>>and a dip gauge for a Cessna 182Q with long-range tanks, I nearly ran
|>>out of fuel.
|>...
|>>So, the error at the low end of the scale was in the range of 7 to 8
|>>gallons per side, or more than an hour's worth of fuel. 
|>
|>Sigh.  I only wish that 7-8 gallons was more than an hour's worth of
|>fuel in a 182.  Planning on that will only get you about 30 minutes
|>to think about it :-(.

Uhh, Dan, I think he said 7-8 gal per side, or 14-16 gal total. Does
your 182 really burn more than 14-16 gph in cruise?

<friendly nudge>

--
Reece R. Pollack
PP-ASEL -- Octopus Flying Club (based GAI)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: heiser@ferrari.nmc.ed.ray.com (Bill Heiser)
Subject: One-way Ride Needed to Florida before 08/25/92
Organization: Equipment Division, Raytheon Company
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:11:00 GMT

I'm an Instrument Rated, current ASEL pilot in need of a one-way ride down
to the Florida area sometime between now and Tuesday, 8/25.  I live in the
Boston, MA area (Westboro) and would drive several hours to your base airport.
 I would like to share expenses and flying.  If you can help, please call me
directly at work (508-490-2081) or at home (508-870-0167).  Thanks.

-- 
* Happiness is a hot boiled lobster with drawn butter, a side dish of hot     *
* fresh steamers with melted butter & a hot corn on the cob with butter & salt*
Work: heiser@sud509.ed.ray.com
Home: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us  Public Access Unix/USENET 508-655-3848
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best)
Subject: Re: Principle of VOR
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:04:29 GMT
Organization: your service

>     What is the principle of VOR system ?   I've ever read that the difference
> between phases of two waves(a wave for reference and a wave whose phase is 
> different according to the direction ?) 

----------

An omnidirectional pulse is sent out, and at the same time, a directional
pulse is started at magnetic zero and scanned clockwise.  Your receiver
determines what radial you're on by the delay between the two received
pulses (no delay = 000, max delay = 359).

All this talk of phase differences and the like has never been part of
this description (as I've heard it), but it must be in there somewhere, 
for several people to have mentioned it.