From: itlm013@judy.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: DM: Advice on Struggling PRipper
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:19:31 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <1992Nov4.140818.10095@news.tufts.edu> gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris) writes:
>
>	I've got a PRipper whose progress I'm not to happy with, and I was
>wondering if the net.wisdom agrees or disagrees with my assessment.
>
>	He's 12(13)-8-6-17-13-9-19,
>Very Intelligent
>(is a very crafty fighter)
>(has a very clever fighting style)
>(has learned the finer points of parrying)
>(has turned avoiding blows into an art form)
>Incredibly Quick
>Highly Coordinated
>Very Frail
>Cannot carry a Lot of Weight
>Incredibly Quick and Elusive on his feet
>(making even dangerous opponents look harmless)
>
>	He had Ex in Rip on roll-up.  Looks good so far, right?


Pretty damn good to me.

>	Well, he's gone 3-4 so far, but I can live with that, since I was
>doing some weird things with him to start with, which probably accounts for 
>some of that, and I don't think PRippers start off all that strong to begin
>with.  

Actually, depending on who you fight (i.e. avoid lungers) parry-ripostes
start out with the best possibility of ripping off a number of wins in a
row.  They're basically vulnerable only to lungers, can take out any finesse
style, and can usually take a tp apart, if you have at least nomral endurance.

>My problem is with his skills
>
>	He's got a 17 WT, great.  His fights average 2.6 minutes when he's
>training for skills, so I don't think that's much of a factor.  But he has
>trained skills in 5 fights, and has learned 4 skills.  0.8 per fight, ouch.
>It's a long way to ADM at that rate.

Okay, here's another idea that I've had for a long time.  Since I'm not
actively playing just yet, I guess I can let the cat out of the bag.

The closer you are to your favorite strategy, the better you learn.

I've been able to predict my character's favorite fighting rhythm with
about an 85% accuracy simply by watching how their skill learns change
with their fighting rhythm.  I had a friend who had a 17 WT PS.  He sent
him out going 10-10-10-Decis every fight for his 20-10-2 regular AD
career, and learned about 1 skill/fight.  He got to AD, starting fighting
his favorite (2-2-2-Parry), and increased it to 3 skills/fight.  Now,
there's a lot of noise in the signal  therre, because you have a better
chance of learning skills in AD, *and* you're fighting better competition,
but I've seen this happen over and over again with my characters, and
with my friends'.

Try varying the strategy, and see how he learns.  If he picks up 2 or
3 skills in 1 fight, stick with that strategy, and try it for 2 or 3
more fights.  If he continues to learn well, you've probably happened
on something close to his favorite fighting rhythm.

>	Then, yesterday I was figuring his starting skills with some charts
>I got recently (thanks, Dennis).  From stats alone I figure he got 17 Riposte
>skills.  However, he's had three Rip learns, and still hasn't made AdEx (that
>should be at 20, right?).  So, unless these charts are inaccurate wrt Riposte,
>he got a 1-skill *penalty* on Riposte on roll-up!  For a Parry-Riposte!

2 things about the charts:

1)  DF is extremely generous with Riposte skills, and it's possible that some
	skills come only for certain styles.  It's possible, for instance,
	that Rippers only get Riposte skills at odd DF's.  This might screw
	up the calculation.
2)  The "bonuses" given for each style are actually averages over a range
	of scores.  It is simply all the numbers added together, divided by
	the number of data points, and rounded up or down depending on how
	the number fell in the 0-5 range around it.  It's possible that there
	isn't enough information to accurately reflect the bonus.

Both of these things could account for a 1 skill difference between the
expected and average scores.  The Defense bonus for Wastes ranges (I
believe) from -35 to -5.  The average is somewherre around -15.  I had
a Waste who got the -35 rating.  He wasn't unlucky in any real way, just
had a bad Defense rating.

>	These two factors, plus the fact that he just lost a three-minute fight
>to a *rookie* PLunger, is making me believe in the luck factor, and that this
>fighter has it, all bad, in spades.  So, do you think I should give this guy
>a little more time, or should I DA him now and hope for a luckier roll-up?

Don't ever get rid of a character unless you think you can get a better
roll-up.  Are you going to get a better roll-up than this?  Not in 10
years, if you're anything like the rest of us.  Keep him, and suck it up.
He'll start winning.

Things that can make a character lose:

1) Fighting incredibly good competition.  Suppose that "rookie PL" goes
	20-0-5 before AD, with 2 TV's and 1 TC.  Won't you feel bad that
	you Da'd a character just because he losst to him on his first
	fight?

2) Using a strategy that's not even close to his favorite.  Give a PR
	more time than you would a power character, because there's a
	lot more ways to run a PR than there is a LU.  Give him a chance
	to show his stuff.

3) Not using his favorite weapon.  Try everything: SH, EP, SC, LO, SS, even	
	LS!  Favorite weapons are more important for finesse styles than
	they are for regular, more offensive, warriors.

All in all, don't DA this guy.  I've got a couple characters I DA'd in
frustration, and didn't realize my mistake until later (A SZ 4 striker,
a SZ 8 PS, and others).  DA is basically irreversible (after all, how
many characters come back from the tourney of the dead?).  Don't do it
unless you're absolutely *sure*.

Trump
dfcleary@ucdavis.edu