HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zarr@lk-hp-11.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{)
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:26:18 GMT

In article <Bz6qts.AE7@pcuf.fi> jlahti@pcuf.fi (Jarmo Lahti) writes:
   Because I am interested of more judo related stuff, I would like
   to subscribe something like rec.martial-arts.judo, but at least
   here it seems not to be found that. Is there somewhere in the net?

I am in exactly same position as Jarmo.  I subscribed to rec.martial-arts
in hope of finding some information of judo, but there are too many posts
here that I am not interested in and I am afraid I miss the few posts that
are of my interest.  Could it be possible to make a new newsgroup called 
rec.martial-arts.judo or such?  I think that would create more discussion
of judo because then the forum wouldn't be too large.

Any votes?

Mari
--
*************************************************************************
*  Mari J Sepp{        *  "I am, therefore I ache," said Marvin in the  *
*  zarr@vipunen.hut.fi *    _Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy_          *
*************War for peace is like fucking for virginity*****************
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work, and which are dangerous.
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:00:36 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Dec11.174231.8814@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>>I'd like to ask a little more about this "thump" to the neck which knocks a 
>>person unconcious.  The explanation that was given was that the blood backs up
>>and then bangs into the brain, knocking him out.  Well, if that were the case,
>>then wouldn't I pass out some of the time when I managed to evade a powerful
>>"poke choke" just in time (in judo competition)?  I don't doubt that one might
>>knock an opponent unconcious with a strike to the neck, especially if some of
>>y'all have done it, but this business about it being a quarter-second strangle
>>seems unlikely.
>
>I agree that the garden hose model is an oversimplification.  I
>think the target of the brachial thump is not so much the blood
>vessels as the bundle of nerves that run through this area.  But 
>have no doubt about how long it takes for this strike to take 
>effect.  Whack the brachial plexus and it is lights out, just
>like somebody switched off the world.

Uh huh...I've been lightly tapped there before. It didn't put me out, but
I lost all voluntary muscle control. I was completely conscious, but I
couldn't *do* anything (including stand under my own power - I would
have hit the floor like the proverbial ton of bricks if the "thumper" hadn't
held me up). I suspect that I would have been out cold if it had been
a *real* strike.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: martial arts info
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 23:18:06 GMT
	<1992Dec9.192201.23118@walter.cray.com> <4332@unisql.UUCP>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <4332@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
   This differs from karate
   tournaments where they pretend to hit each other.

... and then pretend to bleed.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Little pig, little pig, let me come in...
Date: 18 Dec 1992 20:11:32 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Originator: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU

I thought I would share a few insights that came to me while a Psycho
Ex-Boyfriend in a Drunken Rage (tm) was trying to kick down the door
(someone else's, fortunately):

  The average apartment has a large number of objects laying around that 
  could be grabbed by a PEBDR and used against you with unpleasant results.

  Redirections and throws (a la T'ai Chi, Aikido, Judo, etc.) are somewhat 
  impractical if you are in a small apartment and wish to minimize 
  "collateral damage".

  Besides, it's really hard to maintain your center when your lizard brain
  is pulling out all the stops on your fight-or-flight response.

  It's probably a good idea to be proficient in all ranges of engagement
  (outfighting, entering, infighting, clinch and groundfighting).  If that
  is impractical, then you should at least select a few effective
  techniques for each range and practice them frequently.

  When the time comes, you don't have the luxury to think; if you can't
  fight by intuition, you're lost.

  If you apply a choke/strangle hold to someone who just drank a fifth
  of Jack Daniels (tm), you may well end up having to do CPR on the 
  asshole if he chokes on his own vomit.

  Invest in good locks.

  In general, not fighting is much better than fighting.


(Jeeze, two close calls in under a month.  Am I doing something wrong?)

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Why they like Bruce
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:00:09 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

silatman@hls.com writes:
>
>    I would like to ask: 
>
>     When some martial artists say they meditate, or
>do heavy breathing for development of chi, etc. what
>are they concentrating on? Are they thinking about 
>their Creator [God], or is it a "secular" meditation? 

     (Wondering if this is our old friend Khan under a new name...)

     I'm certainly not meditating on some concept of a "Creator" or
"God", as I don't buy into such ideas. I'm just sitting and breathing.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
   "All I kin say is when you finds yo'self wanderin' in a peach orchard,
    ya don't go lookin' for rutabagas." -- Kingfish
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: Re: JKA/Shito/Shorin/etc... was Re: need JKA contact
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:36:51 GMT

=Off the Subject, but is the JKA affiliated with any other style besides
=Shotokan?  Specifically Shorin Ryu or Shito Ryu.
=

As far as I understand it, YES.  How ever being american, and having never
lived in Japan, I am taking other peoples word on that.  They are
both American and Japanese.  It's just that JKA was founded by the 
followers of Funakoshi, and Shotokan is what they are most famous for.

B. Webb, Dallas, TX.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: RE:  Ki and science
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:24:29 GMT

Re: Todd Stark & Pete Capell comments...

I agree in many ways with Mr. Capell's comments.

My feelings are that we (as a scientific community)
will have to wait a little longer until the
resident scientists can find a way to measure the
energy form that we call Ki or Chi.

Just as Mr. Capell pointed out about people not 
beliving ultraviolet frequencies existing, just 
because the scientists of the past could not 
quantify/measure/prove such an existance.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:34:20 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

Mary writes:
 
> As I have said over and over again, the point of a sternum strike is 
> to help propel yourself away from your attacker, NOT to break your
> attacker's sternum or something equally silly.  
> 
> You are all -- Dakin, Steve G., and Lieven -- making the same mistake, and
> that is to assume that the only point of a strike is the damage that
> it will do to your attacker.  Generally speaking, that's the purpose of
> a strike, but it's not always the exclusive purpose, or even the primary
> purpose.  The sternum strike is an example of a case where the "strike" 
> is actually part of an escape.  

Not at all, Mary - however, an "escape" that doesn't *also* do something to
reduce your attacker's ability to pursue his intentions is strategically
inferior to one which does. The ideal escape is one which does *not* leave
you open to attack.


Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:47:06 CST

In article <1992Dec18.164949.15305@pony.Ingres.COM> simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.193158.601@walter.cray.com>, radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>
>
>>For example, to describe the opening moves of our version of nihanchi
>>(one of our kata), I'd say (skipping the salute part):
>
>[skip a lot]
>>
>>Starting Position:
>>- (after the salute) your starting position is facing 12:00. Your legs
>>  are together, knees bent, heels together, toes pointing towards 10:30
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>  and 1:30 (just trying to give an example of degree of subtlety!) and
>
>Which foot points to 10:30?  Those of us who use a lot of sanchin
>stance might say the RIGHT foot - just another subtlety!

...John? With your heels together you might really point your *right*
foot towards 10:30 (and, therefore, left towards 1:30)? Then your right 
foot would be stepping on your left foot.... wouldn't it? Do you guys 
really stand this way?

Amazed,
-Lauren

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Bullet catching?
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:52:58 GMT

In article <58760009@acf3.NYU.EDU> wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu) writes:

>	A year of sandbag biting and a kevlar retainer should
>do the trick :-)
>
>	Good luck. Try to document your first experience, I think
>a lot of people here would be interest in watching it.

Actually, I've seen this done on TV (really!).

The trick is that the person doing it had a lead cup in his mouth, so
it wasn't really catching the bullet with the *teeth*, but he actually
sustained a broken tooth in the process.  The bullet struck the cup at
a slight angle, causing it to twist violently in his mouth.

It was only a .22.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: pklauren@nmsu.edu (Patrick M Klaurens)
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<Bz94uE.Jto@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <11529@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:58:52 GMT

The heart and lungs are contained in the thoacic cavity. on the front
of your body the thoracic cavity goes as far as the 4th rib.  on
several occasions I have seen sternum pushed into the chest by a
steering column, and the cartilage attatching the ribs to the sternum
separated,creating a kind of flail chest.  during a cadaver lab I have
broken a sternum with minimal effort (oops!) and think that it may be
done by a solid punch or kick.  I don't find the sternum a reliable
fight stopper (without handgun assistance) under even Ideal
Circumstances(TM) The xyphiod process lies slightly inferior to the
diagphram, placing it in the abdominal cavity.  I will check my notes
on P&A and get back to you.  Do not flame my spelling, as I am
crawling into a nomex sleeping bag and getting the first sleep of the
day.
pat
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: heavy bags
Date: 12 Dec 1992 20:33:29 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Distribution: rec
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

In article <8956@unix386.Convergent.COM>, jeff@unix386.Convergent.COM (Jeff Beckmann) writes:
>I need some advice about heavy bags.  I want to hang one in my garage.
>
>1) I haven't seen leather bags.  Do they exist?  Are they extremely
>   expensive?
>

how much do you want to spend? i use a 5' long water core punching bag from
century. i have no complaints (so far) and find it is very easy on the joints. 
i think the bag cost about $200.

-mukund
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:16020 soc.culture.pakistan:18531
From: lieven@cco.caltech.edu (Lieven Pascal Leroy)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Philosophy vs. Technique
Date: 12 Dec 1992 01:04:20 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu


I just read a short essay by Terry Dobson that got me thinking about
the philosophy behind martial arts.

The story, 'A Kind Word Turneth Away Wrath', outlines the experience of a
young, eager aikido student who finds himself in a situation where a drunk
is bullying a rail car full of people.  'Aha,', he thinks, 'a legitimate
use for my skill, a chance to do good for these people.'

Just before he kicks into gear, an old man intervenes.  In a quiet, under-
standing tone he defuses the whole situation in moments.  The drunk ends
up quietly crying and talking to the old man, instead of laid out on the
floor.

The moral is that the old man was the one truly in tune with Aikido philosophy,
to find the non-violent solution.  One that helped all parties, the trouble-
maker included.  The aikido student realizes his folly.

Woah.  Deep stuff.  It suddenly struck me that I am closer to the philosophy
of Aikido when I am _away_ from the practice mats.

Rec.m-a talks techinique and this-art-compared-to-that-art, and that's how
I usually think of the martial arts I practice.

How many of you feel the philosophy too?  Is it something you strive for,
or a separate ideology you may or may not choose to accept along with the
physical aspects?

						Reflecting,
						Lieven
From: dsr@bnr.co.uk (D.S.Riches)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:38:07 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.51

In article <ZARR.92Dec17004711@lk-hp-14.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-14.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
>In article <4381@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>
>   In article <ZARR.92Dec14222618@lk-hp-11.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-11.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
>   > [ rec.*.judo ] Any votes?
>
>>	   Boo on this idea.  Nothing on judo?  We just had a megabyte
>
>Did it have "judo" in the subject?  I have so many other newsgroups and

Well you could do a /judo/a and then it'll give you all the articles
which mention Judo in the header and body.

Is that any good?

Dave
   Dave Riches
   Email:  David.S.Riches@bnr.co.uk
   Smail:  BNR Europe Ltd, London Road,
           Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA.  England
   Phone:  +44 (0)279-402496
   Fax:    +44 (0)279-451434
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Mass murderer is an MA-expert.  Wonderful...
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:02:00 +0000



The tabloid press do seem to enjoy a good MA "expert" story, here's one:
If you think it is amusing in anyway, I wrote it. If you don't like it
I disclaim all responsibility.






KARATE EXPERT GETS SHORT SENTENCE.


A karate expert was given a short sentence yesterday (Friday) after being
found guilty of using his secret martial art skills for offensive purposes.


The prosecution attorney claimed that the defendant, Denis Smith, had set
about three memebers of the public causing actual bodily harm.
Using lighening fast blows, Denis (6), lashed out at his playmates in
the playground at Slow Walk Primary School causing little Johnny Jones
to cry, two other pupils were sent home at 3:30pm, in a very upset state.
Later a spokesman said that they were now comfortable.


The martial arts expert, a karate yellow belt, has been in hard training
at his local club for 9 months. His lethal instructor declined to comment,
yesterday, and we were too scared to push him into making any comment or
even make one up.


The shapely headmistress of the primary school (36,24,36) issued a
statement saying that she had dealt with Denis by giving him 100 lines,
"I should not hit people". She claimed that was sufficient punishment.


However, questions have been asked, and the parents of the victims said
that the sentence was much too short and that Denis should have been
given at least "I should not use my expert martial arts skills to beat
people up". Miss Bakewell said that the original sentance would stand
and that the only appeal had already been registered and over-ruled -
Denis himself made the appeal, he is believed to have said "oh Miss,
it wasn't me - honest!"
Miss Bakewell declined further comment, except to add that she would not
be taking up this papers offer for nude model work.


Statistics have shown an alarming growth in martial arts use in
playgrounds since the early 1950's when there were no instances of its
use. But Since Elvis Presley popularised the art of Karate, kids
dressed in leather jackets the world over have taken to this evil art.


Prime Minister, John Major, was asked to comment but the lady at his
office said he had no comment to make, she added "Is that like Judo then?".








Long le the tabloid press ! ;-)
Bill Burgar.
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:28:30 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <Bz94uE.Jto@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>I'm not exactly sure why you and Steve separate the xiphoid process
>from the solar plexus.  To my mind, those two are so close together
>as to be the same target.

The two are seperated by a row of abdominal muscle tissue. I was taught
to attack the xyphoid process with the intent of dislodging it and
driving it into tissues located behind it (ie, the heart). I don't think
my fist is large enough, nor my focus and power sufficient to make a
meaningful hit to both targets simultaneously.

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: re:need help in north VA - dojo/train
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:17:17 GMT


=Need help finding dojo in Northern VA.
=
=Live in Manassas, work in Fairfax.
=
=Also need training partner... karate, tae kwon doe , self defense, aikido
=
=Please contact me if you can help.
=Brown belt level...
=
=Ed Landgraf
=8275 Vernon St
=Manassas VA 22110
=
=703-267-3310 (W)
=703-361-8416 (H)
=703-866-8552 (Page)
=
=REally need to get back into training since moving...
=
=Thanks,
=Ed
=

Ed, give these folks a call:

Lester Ingber, Mclean VA.  703-759-2769 / 703-847-9162

Howie Harvey, 304-664-8914

Patrica/Angie Harvey, 304-583-2078

Pam Cline, hcr 68, box 8, Hanover WV

hope they can help.

B. Webb, Dallas, Tx.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:50:57 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec12.013515.6182@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Someone who knows what they're doing with a strangehold can render you 
>helpless in about one second.  

	Someone who understands shime-waza wouldn't attack by grabbing your
neck in her hands and squeezing.

>If you've never experienced a really good stranglehold, try to get someone to

	:-) :-) :-) 

	I'd venture to say that I've been strangled enough times to fill
up a short int's worth of bits...  

> If you feel like your throat's being mangled after just one
>second, then the other person is doing it right.

	No, if that's the feeling then the other guy is relying on 
strength and not doing it right at all.  A proper strangle looks (and
feels) like a caress.
							W.rat


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:10:36 GMT


jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:

>OK for the dojo, but that PCP condition really throws a monkey wrench 
>into the works.  Plenty of cases where a normal joe spaced out on PCP 
>fights off 5-6 cops who are trying to BEAT him into submission.  


   As a general rule, an intoxicated person has an increased 
   resistance to pain & damage, but an impaired sense of balance.
   This implies a throw is in order.  To make sure you are not 
   grabbed, be sure to "lead" them off-balance as much as possible --

     -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:40:06 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <memo.811753@cix.compulink.co.uk>, bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar) writes:
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a neat way of describing techniques without a great long
> description in words. i.e. some form of ascii short hand notation that
> is clear. If not can we develop one? Something that everyone here can
> learn to use so that we can discuss more technical concepts without being
> too badly misunderstood.
> 
> 
> Any ideas + has it been tried before and given up on - it may be rather
> difficult!!!
> 
> 
> Bill Burgar.

I sent someone e-mail about this subject; apologies for repeating myself.

There are several forms of movement notation available.  One of the most
popular is Labanotation, developed by Rudolf Laban primarily for dance.  Not
only can you get extremely accurate in describing physical movement via
symbols, but you can also describe quality of movement to some degree (effort,
speed, etc.)

Another good one is Benesch notation, initially developed for anthropology. 
This uses a music staff, so the basic materials are easy to find.  It is also
comparatively simple and straightforward.

Labanotation is complex, and I don't know of too many people who are willing to
learn it except for those who are really interested in Laban.  While it allows
for precise descriptions, it tends to be very cumbersome.

Benesch notation is relatively simple to learn and allows for the straight
recording of physical movements.  If you want to make notes about movement
qualities, I suppose you can do them in the margins.

The few dance teachers I have talked to prefer videotaping to notation styles
anyway.  Too burdensome, too much trouble, no one can read them anyway, etc. 
But if you had to choose between Labanotation and Benesch, I would go for
Benesch.  Much, much easier.


Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts