HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:42:07 -0400 
From: Robert Edward Timlin <rt16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Model Kit from hell


     Actually, isn't the original kit from ST:TMP, with lights and all, sort of
valuable? I remember asking about it at a con once and getting a quote of
$100+ (and then actually seeing one, still in the shrink wrap, for that price).

     Of course, now there's the 25th Anniversary model with lights AND sound,
but it's not self-contained like the original; has to stand on its base, which
holds the electronics. The original could be hung up. I have one from STIII
which is from the same molds, but doesn't have any of the lighting gear. You
can tell because there are holes in the hull for the switches, the deflector
dish is designed so that it can come off (to replace batteries), other stuff
like that. Oh well.

                                                -Robb Timlin
                                                 rt16@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: ottoh3@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Otto Heuer #3)
Subject: Re: The Cage 
To: rec.arts.startrek.misc (rec.arts.startrek.misc)
Posted-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17: 42:25 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:42:25 GMT
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Tim writes:

| ottoh3@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Otto Heuer #3) writes:
| )
| )Tony Bell writes:
| )
| )| The Beeb showed (for the first time on British Network Television, wow!)
| )| the 1st ST pilot (The Cage) last night. It was good to the old
| )| trek again after seeing the hi-tech STTNG and movies recently. Whatever
| )| happened to Jeffrey Hunter? My brother was watching The Cage with me and
| )| he said that he (Hunter) must be kicking himself about for not
| )| carrying on with ST.

| )I believe he died in a motorcycle acident shortly after The Cage was shot
| )(or at least before the second pilot was shot).

| But I thought that Jeffrey Hunter played Capt. Pike in "The Menagerie"
| as well.  Is this not so?

Yes and no.

Yes, he played "young Pike", but all these scenes were taken from the
original pilot "The Cage".

No, he did not play "old Pike" (in the wheelchair).  That was the reason 
they decided to have Pike be an invalid.  That way they didn't have to
explain why Pike no longer looked, talked, or acted like Jeffery Hunter's
Pike character.

                --Otto "HACK-MAN" Heuer
--
C, Pascal, Fortran, BASIC, Assembly Language, Snobol, Ada, APL, Prolog, LISP
Unix, MS-DOS, ProDOS       .  .   .   .... .  .   .   .   .   .   . Audio/Video
ottoh@cfsmo.honeywell.com  :..: .:.:. :    :.' .. :`.': .:.:. :`. :   Star Trek
hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org  :  : :   : :... : `.   :   : :   : :  `:  Apple IIgs

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: schamber@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: The Measure of a Man
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:37:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.051252.19194@eng.umd.edu> wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <1B0gPB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> ekho.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:
>>ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Second, Data had *apply* to the academy, just like any other cadet.  It
>>> was even pointed out that Commander Dickhead was the only member of
>>> the board that screens applicants that didn't want to allow him to attend.
>
>Something that bugs me about that.  In "Redemption II," Data states that he's
>been in Starfleet for 27 years.  Now Maddox didn't look older than 35, so 
>Maddox was a member of this board screening applicants even before he 
>hit double digits?  Looks like somebody wasn't doing their homework in
>"RII," cause that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  Hmmmm.....

Indeed. But in "The Schizoid Man", when possessed by Dr Whatever, Data
said something to Wesley about him being superior due to his age, or
something like that, and Wes answered Data was not much more older than him.

Also, I thought I heard in one of the episodes Data has been in Starfleet
for 16 years... (I'll have to watch all my tapes again! Anybody got a
memory better than mine???)

In that case, Maddox could be something like 39, and that makes him 23 when
Data was admitted... well, it's too young anyway...  :)

Conclusion: the actor playing Commander Maddox was way too young for the
role...

P.S. I moved the thread to r.a.s.m. to where it belongs...

>Jose Gonzalez
>                       Spock- "In your own way, you are as stubborn as another
>                               captain of the Enterprise I once knew."
>                       Picard-"Then I'm in good company, sir."  

-- 
Sylvain Chamberland     |   "Trust is earned, not given away!"
University of Waterloo  |          - Worf, Star Trek The Next Generation
Waterloo, Ontario.      |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: rahhelp@rigel.tamu.edu (Ronald A. Huizar)
Subject: Re: It was McCoy Dammit
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:03:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug6.025100.1905@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, vnelson@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gerald Vernon Nelson) writes...
>The reason they don't come right out and tell say  "Welcome Admiral McCoy"
>is so that you watch the show and go..
> 
>"Hey isn't that McCoy?,  Im sure it is..."
>"Lets wait and see what they call him.   "
> 
>"Admiral? Admiral McCoy? Gees do you really think thats McCoy?"
> 
> 
> 
>Do you get it now?  It was Deforest Kelly playing McCoy.
>Your supposed to wonder for about 10 seconds.
> 
>Anyone still wondering has failed the TNG "Is that McCoy?" quiz.
> 
>Your punishment is to go back and watch TOS until you can recognize McCoy!
> 
>Vern Nelson

I have been refraining myself hoping this thread would die, but  it 
has not, so I am going to say it.


"That was the Real McCoy"

In my finist hillbilly accent..

Ronald A. Huizar
User Services Assistant
Academic Computer Services
Texas A&M University
College Station, Tx 77840
RAHHELP@rigel.tamu.edu
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Tasha Yar, Timelines, etc.
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:29:07 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Aug18.134422.154@news.uwyo.edu> gooseman@news.uwyo.edu writes:
>Hi,
>2. Due to a high intensity energy burst caused by multiple torpedo explosions
>at the Battle of Norendra III, the Enterprise C is sent forward 22 years,
>changing the timeline as it does, thanks to the fact (at that time) that the
>Enterprise cut and ran from a battle, leaving the Klingon outpost to be
>destroyed. The Klingons take this to be an irreversable insult to their honor
>and attack. 
>     Tasha Yar was never killed by Armas in this new timeline.
>Source: Yesterday's Enterprise and a wee bit of extrapolation ob Klingon

	And I think I can give you the reason why Tasha was not killed
by Armus in the new line, if you recall, Tasha was trying to get to 
counselor Troi's shuttle when she was killed, and you may also note that


BTW, excellent summary John, and thanks for the small Doctor Who plug.

						Steve
From: jacob@plasma1.ssl.berkeley.edu (Jamey Jacob)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: RE: Michael Dorn
Date: 13 Aug 1992 19:54:43 GMT
Organization: UCB Space Sciences Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: plasma1.ssl.berkeley.edu

Patrick Stewart was Halleck [sic] from Dune!  He was Paul
Atreides combat instructor.  (How could anyone forget...)


____________________________________________________________________
"common human laws and interests     "I wouldn't exactly call it a
 and emotions have no validity        a happy dogma, but it makes me
 or signifigance in the vast          feel better about not 
 cosmos-at-large..."                  getting laid..."
		-HP Lovecraft                 -R. Carter
____________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.fandom
From: mark@IMD.Sterling.COM (Mark Buglewicz)
Subject: Re: *** Help me think up a good Star Trek license plate!
Organization: Sterling Software, IMD
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:00:57 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: dfb01eda33ec50b779ce7ec0bef7a352

How 'bout this one:

WNOHGB4

Only real Trekkies will get this one.
From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: STVII - Capt Sulu & TNG
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:37:04 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <10196@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk>, selliott@cs.strath.ac.uk (Stuart Elliott IE91) writes:
> 
> Hi people,
> 
> 	The following appeared in a Glasgow newspaper.
> 
> 	"Star Trek VII now seems a very likely prospect, possibly
> featuring members of the Next Generation cast with Enterprise original
> George Takei providing a link as Captain Sulu."
> 
> 		Andy Dougan, (Glasgow)Evening Times,
> 			     Monday, August 17, 1992, p9
> 
> QUESTION: Anyone out there heard this or is this guy just haverin ?
> 
> 	This is a genuine question. I would really like to know.
> 
> 	Thanks in advance.
> 
> 			Stuart Elliott


I think this is a case of George Takei trying to start a rumor.  I saw him
at the spring StarFest Denver where he said he wanted Paramount to make a
series of films starring Captain Sulu, and he wanted to have a "young
Frenchman with a _very_full_head_of_hair_ as his navigator."  I quote.
I don't think this is a real possibility, just George's wishful thinking.
He encouraged the crowd to write Paramount with their support of the idea.

Kellie Matthews-Simmons
internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
From: m1kew02@fed.frb.gov (Kirstin E. Wells)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Worf's moral dilemma
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:05:30 GMT
Reply-To: m1kew02@fed.frb.gov (Kirstin E. Wells)
Organization: Federal Reserve Board, Wash, DC

I saw a rerun the other night of an episode when Worf is asked to donate blood to an enemy Romulan who is on board.  He refuses, and the captain declines to order him to do it.  The enemy thus dies.  I thought this whole thing very contrary to the E's usual way of doing things, even for Worf.  Any thoughts on this...?

K Wells
From: deboer@neptune.mcs.anl.gov (Ms. Jennifer L. DeBoer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Multiple Alexander actors
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:39:49 GMT
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago, Illinois

In article <l8kv86INNfqt@earth.cs.utexas.edu> efisch@cs.utexas.edu (Eric A. Fisch) writes:
>hatred towards Worf's son, Alexander. Recently looking through the
>Programming guide I noticed that the first appearance of the character
>was not played by Brian Bonsall. I am now interested in wether peoples
>animosity towards Alexander is directed at Brian Bonsall's acting
>ability, how the writers use him or both. I do not remeber if the
>
BTW, Brian Bonsall also played the kid brother (Andrew?) 
on the sit-com _Family_Ties_.


******************
Jennifer DeBoer
deboer@mcs.anl.gov
******************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: kellyfj@vax1.tcd.ie
Subject: Re: Vulcan Names.
Organization: Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 11:03:39 GMT

In article <9208150505.AA13540@tyrell.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>, ottoh3@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Otto Heuer #3) writes:
> 
> 	LIST OF NAMES, RANKS, AND SERIAL NUMBERS (AND CREW DATA)
> 			 (last updated 7/15/92)
> 
> 
> 1e) As a general rule,  Vulcan males  have five-letter  names starting with
> "S" and ending with "K" (Spock, Sybok, Sarek, etc.)  in honor of Surak, and
> Vulcan females have names starting with "T'"  (T'Pau, T'Pring,  etc.).  The
> explanations for  Saavik  are  either  "she's  part Romulan,  so the naming
> convention didn't hold" or "Her name is T'Saavik, but the "T'S" is too hard
> to pronounce.

I read this in "Eyes of the beholders" by A.C. Crispin.:

A vulcan female who is bonded (like Spock & T'Pring were bonded) has a name
beginning with T'P like T'Pau.

If she is not bonded or breaks the bond then she is free to choose another
name, usually beginning with 'S' (not necessarily ending with 'K')
e.g. Dr. Selar in TNG. and possibly Saavik??

Question: Is this canon? 

I think it's a good explanation anyway.

--Frank.

********************************************************************************
* KELLYFJ@Vax1.tcd.ie | "The spear in the Other's heart is the spear in your   *
*---------------------|   own; you are he.  There is no other wisdom, and no   *
* GO BROWNS! GO DAWGS |  other hope for us but that we grow wise." - Surak     *
********************************************************************************
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: where are all the coo
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:16:00 EST
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

>> I think a slew of good TNG aliens is in the Season 3 episode "The
>> Impostor".

>There is no episode by that name.

Yeah, I know, I meant "Allegience".  I have NO idea why "The Impostor"
popped into my mind!  Sorry for the mixup!


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET: bernie.wong@canrem.com

---
  OLX 2.1 TD  She's a Vulcan all right!  McCoy
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: rws3n@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Robert W. Spiker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: The Cage
Keywords: Dan Rather is a turnip
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:49:08 GMT
Reply-To: rws3n@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Robert W. Spiker)
Organization: Department of Astronomy, Univ. of Virginia


schamber@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>)
>>)Tony Bell writes:
>>)
>>)| The Beeb showed (for the first time on British Network Television, wow!)
>>)| the 1st ST pilot (The Cage) last night. It was good to the old
>>)| trek again after seeing the hi-tech STTNG and movies recently. Whatever
>>)| happened to Jeffrey Hunter? My brother was watching The Cage with me and
>>)| he said that he (Hunter) must be kicking himself about for not
>>)| carrying on with ST.
>>)

[Lots of ya about how Jeffrey Hunter fell off a cliff, joined a cult,
wandered around Canada, turned into Dan Quayle]

>
>He did not look much like Jeffrey Hunter... either a lot of makeup,
>or a different actor...   :)
>

Paraphrasing from the Star Trek Compendium (it's at home, you see, and
I'm not):

When the shell around "The Cage" was filmed-- the bit about Spock
hijacking the ship and the court martial-- Jeffrey Hunter wanted too
much money for too small a role.  So, they found some other guy by the
name of Sean Kenney (I think) who was willing to do the part for much
less and bore a more than passing resemblance to Hunter (it claims).

Whether or not Mr. Hunter is still with us is something I don't know.

--
Robert W. Spiker  rws3n@virginia.edu  |
Dept. of Astronomy, Univ. of Virginia | The condition upon which God hath
P.O. Box 3818, University Station     | given liberty to man is eternal
Charlottesville VA 22903 USA          | vigilance.       J.P.Curran, 1790
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: wang!ailanth!tallman@ulowell.ulowell.edu (temporary)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Timescales : TOS & TNG ??
Date: 23 Aug 92 06:55:24 GMT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

edc@evolution.bchs.uh.edu (edward s. chen) writes:

> In article <1992Aug21.195140.19830@news.unomaha.edu> tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu 
> >ccspjs@gdr.bath.ac.uk  writes:
> >> 
> >>   This is almost certainly a FAQ, but how many years after TOS (or
> >> the movies) is TNG set?.  It's got to be well over 22 years, as the 
> >> Enterprise C featured in Yesterday's Enterprise, and there is
> >> still the Galaxy Class Enterprise B to take into consideration.
> >	The Enterprise B was an Excelsior Class Starship. =+)
> >>   Either the 1701-B didn't last long, or it had to be a fair number
> >> of years between the two series.
> >> 
> >	It's about 75 years from the time of Kirk to Picard.  I think
> >I remember reading somewhere that it was about 75 from Star Trek IV, and
> >that was back in 1986, so its up to about 80 years now.
> >> 
> 
> The official Paramount numbers:
> 
> STII:TWoK   -- 2285
> ST:TNG EaF  -- 2364
> 
> Therefore 79 years between the second film, and the first season of TNG.
> 
> <ESC>
> 
> -- 
> ..You either kiss the future or the past goodbye...
>                           -- Ringo Starr (written by O'Deherty / Velez)
> 
>                                 

Actually it goes like this:

Paramount referred to TNG (2364) as being 78 years after Star Trek IV 
(2286) as ST4 was the most recent outting for the original crew at that 
time. I will be posting an updated version of my Star Trek Timeline on 
September 1st.

..........
Robert Oliver, wang!ailanth!tallman@ulowell.ulowell.edu
via Ailanthus Project +1 207-989-6562 - Brewer, Maine.
..........
From: tkogoma@triton.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Old Model Kit from hell
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:01:51 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug12.132602.14326@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.235231.1@sask.usask.ca> borys@sask.usask.ca writes:
>>A note to all you die hard trek model builders:   If you remember
>>way way way back when ERTL/AMT first released the big E model
>>(Enterprise class; ie the one from ST:The Motion Picture)
>  ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
>
>No....he...he didn't mean to say that!  Yeah, that...that's it.  It was
>a...uh...mistake.  Hear that, Dixon?  A mistake, I tell you!  Go away!

Don't panic.  Last I heard, JD got himself kicked off FidoNet for his
'Trekkier than thou' attitude. ;-)

>Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
>Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  tkogoma@triton.unm.edu
  I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                           what I have now...
From: 00sdriddle@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: The Cage
Date: 22 Aug 92 06:52:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.152000.14873@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell) writes:
> Hi folks
> 
> The Beeb showed (for the first time on British Network Television, wow!)
> the 1st ST pilot (The Cage) last night. It was good to the old
> trek again after seeing the hi-tech STTNG and movies recently. Whatever
> happened to Jeffrey Hunter? My brother was watching The Cage with me and
> he said that he (Hunter) must be kicking himself about for not
> carrying on with ST. I wonder what ST would have been like with Pike
> instead of Kirk as captain, it would have been interesting to have
> seen how everything would have developed with a female 1st officer.
> Would Spock have carried on as a *emotional* Vulcan?
> 
> Somehow I can't see it as the mega-success as the Kirk ST became.
> 
> any ideas folks.
> 
> tony bell                 ! keep on running                
> serc daresbury laboratory ! live long and prosper
>             atb@uk.ac.dl.gserv1


	Hunter died in 1969 at age 43.
	He desperately wanted to play the part of Mike Brady on the
Brady Bunch, but Sherwood Schwartz told him," The guy on this show is an
architect, not a model or an actor."  To which he replied,"Look at my face!
I'm getting wrinkles around my eyes! I'm getting lines in my face!"
	Of course he died during what would have been the first season
of the Brady Bunch, so he was spared kicking himself over this one.
(although I would want to kick myself if I DID get cast in the Brady
Bunch!)
From: Anthony_Battles_-T@cso.3mail.3com.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Top ten reasons why they dont use the restroom Part V
Date: 3 Aug 92 19:24:00 GMT

Hello everyone, it has been a while but...
              I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Top Ten Reasons Why They Dont Use the Restroom Part V.
***********************************************************

10. Too many people kept falling out of the shuttle bay.

 9. Data still cant figure out what that protrusion is for.

 8. The women aboard still have this feeling that Riker 
    is nearbye everytime they have to go.(See Part II).

 7. After all of that prune juice I still dont see how
    Worf can hold it all these years (See Part I).

 6. Geordi tried, but going out the window at warp speed is not
    a good idea.

 5. How do you think Guinan makes that Omnicron Beta Sunsplash drink.

 4. Lt. Barclay really does it in the holodeck.

 3. Everytime they(the red shirts) would ask Kirk, he would take them 
    down to the surface. And they would go(in their pants) before they 
    got killed by the monster.

 2. Now we know why Kirk is always tense in the dramatic scenes.

And the number 1 reason why they dont use the restroom*********

 1. Everyone is collectively saving it, to convert it into a hairpiece 
    for Picard.

Anthony
========================================================================
"This is the Captain Speaking. We have succesfully completed our first 
mission. I think we need a break. Ensign Lay in a course for Risa at 
warp 9, Crew.... Its Party Time!!!
                     The USS Galaxy's first completed mission
========================================================================




Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: bbarber@sierra.com (Bryan Barber)
Subject: Worf in "The Enemy"
Followup-To: r.a.s.m.
Keywords: Worf
Organization: Sierra Geophysics, North Dallas Technology Ctr.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:55:17 GMT

Kirstin E. Wells writes:

>I saw a rerun the other night of an episode when Worf is asked to donate 
>blood to an enemy Romulan who is on board.  He refuses, and the captain 
>declines to order him to do it.  The enemy thus dies.  I thought this 
>whole thing very contrary to the E's usual way of doing things, even for
>Worf.  Any thoughts on this...?

Worf's attitude seems similar to Captain Kirk's hatred of Klingons in 
STVI-TUC. The idea of condemning an entire race for the crimes of a few
of its members is seen fairly often in ST, for example in "The Survivors"
(TNG) when Kevin destroyed the Hoosnak (sp?) or "Balance of Terror" (TOS)
in which Lieutenant/Ensign Styles hated the Romulans and accused Spock
of being a traitor.
-- 
Bryan Barber  |"He's bread, Jim." - McCoy after a tragic transporter accident
              |                     while visiting planet Pillsbury.
From: gbq1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Gene B. Quinn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Hallmark 1991 Enterprise Ornament
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:53:13 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

First of all, don't get too excited, I have an extra one but am probably
unwilling to sell it.  I have noticed a few people who seem pretty desperate
for one and I am just testing the waters to see what the going price is these
days.  So, for all of you who want one, what would you be willing to pay?
	Like I said, I probably won't want to sell it, but if I'm strapped for
cash in the near future and the price is good enough .....
	The ornament is in excellent condition.  The only time it was ever taken
out of the box was to test it to see that it was in perfect working order.
Never hung on the tree, and has been carefully packed away since I got it.

								-Breese  gbq1@uchep.uchicago.edu