HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Time required to attain Black Belt
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:48:12 GMT
	<1992Nov17.180105.27926@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu's message of 17 Nov 92 18:01:05 GMT


In article <1992Nov17.180105.27926@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> dudding@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Dennis Dudding Avionic Grad ) writes:

   In article <4132@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> helmuthn@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Helmuth Naumer) writes:
   >
   >I believe after ordering, 3-5 weeks for delivery.
   >
	   :-> I am sure that I can get you one in about 5 working days...

	   Come on...Its not the color that makes you a blackbelt.........
   ......train, train, train.  Its very simple, just keep training.

	   When I was a child I wished I were an adult.............
   But now that I am an adult (40), I wish that I could go back and
   fix the things I did wrong as a child.  Your training will most likely
   feel the same after you realize that you are a blackbelt.

Oh, yeah.  OH, YEAH.  I know this feeling.  Lately I am feeling this
so much in my training...a feeling that my core techniques are not
as solid as they could be, as solid as I'd like them to be.  In many
ways I wish that I were a white belt again, so that I could rebuild
my basics.

Of course, that's hindsight speaking.  If I were a white belt again, 
I wouldn't have the perspective I have now, and I'd do everything
just the same.  Additionally, there is nothing stopping me from 
rebuilding my basics (aside from an instructor who expects me to 
also get on with learning new things...I figure I have about two
months' grace before he tells me I have to test again).  But I wince
every time I see new students who want to charge through the ranks, 
because now I finally know what a profound disservice they're doing
themselves.  The ones who take their time and build solid basics 
generally seem to make steady progress throughout their careers.  
Occasionally they hit plateaus -- I think everybody does -- but 
having accomplished something that is really solid seems to sustain
them.  It's the ones who have just skated by doing a marginal job
who really hit the wall.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:24:09 -0500 
From: Peter Jason Ward <pw2j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
	<1eltngINN74o@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>

A quote:

     I'm EXTREMELY shocked at everyone here!  Does NOBODY keep 
track of these things?  Exactly this happened at the end of the 
Dark Knight Returns redention of the Batman graphic novel, even to 
the detail of Batman being old and decrepit (though Superman was 
no more evil than Ollie North -- he was just following orders).  
But you know what they say about old age and treachery..

\Another quote, from the book:

     "My parents taught me a diferent lesson...lying on this street
shaking in deep shock...dying for no reason at all.. they showed me that
the world only makes sense when you force it to.  We could have changed
the world, now look at us.. I've become a political liability... and
you, you're a joke.  I want you to remembver, Clark in all the years to
come, in your most private moments...I want you to remember my hand at
your throat, I want you to remember the one man who beat you."

   SOrry, I know its out of place, but it's such a good quote...
                          Peter Ward 
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:26:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Eskrima Seminar Dec 12
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause) / 10:06 am  Nov 18, 1992 /
Eskrima Seminar
Saturday Dec 12  10AM-3PM
Doce Pares -  Eskrima  - Pangamot

This seminar will cover the history of Eskrima, training on the double
and single olisi (sticks) and as the Grandmaster's own style and empty-
hand fighting, joint-locks, and disarms called "Pangamot".  This is his
second level of Doce Pares system.


Location:  Tiger Eye Claw Center 
	   903 N. 8th St.
	   San Jose CA 95112
	   (408)-998-3345

Cost: $45.00
----------

The seminar is being taught by Grandmaster Cacoy Canete and is hosted
by Ron Lew.  Sorry about the omission of his name.
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Date: 20 Nov 1992 15:25 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>I heard that  they teach military martial-art to Korean Airborn-troopers in ROK
>It takes 2-3 months to master it, and you should be able to defend against
>around 10 people, sounds unrealistic?  

For how long?  Probably until somebody on one side or another slaps a new
clip into his M-16 (yea for the good guys) or AK-47 (uh oh, Boo Boo).  Or
fixes bayonets.  Or interrupts the kumite with a mortar (dulce et decorum).

>Of course, they keep practicing it after the initial training until they get
>out from the army.  Maybe, you can go there and test them. :-)

Boy! yeah, I want to run right out and see if a 20-year-old paratrooper
can kick my kneecaps off faster than I can dodge.  :)  More likely, though,
we can go there and test the other side.  The ROK guys probably have a bit
better motivation than we do.  

>It's pretty cold here.

North Dakota, eh?  Well, you can always practice H-Bomb-Do (kata only,
please) in the underground dojang near Minot... 

Gloomily,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More fogey fighting
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:43:34 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Nov17.064712.15039@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>In article robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>But keep in mind that this discussion started when some little snotnose 
>>punk claimed 10th dans were full of shit and that he could kick butt
>>on any 70-year-old he met.
>I'm punk/jerk/whatever who started the old fogey fighting thread
>by remarking that I had never met a fighter of 70 years or more
>who stood much of a chance against a 20 or 30 year old fighter
>in his prime, and by asking people who had actually lost to an old

Hmmmm...

Thought I'd just point out that I don't think you are the one Michael
was refering to, Richard. Your question was stated quite satisfactorily
(to my way of thinking). I think Michael was refering to this Jeffery
Hazelnut character somewhere in Germany who saluted us thus:

Listen up people!

This is a bunch of bullshit...blahblahblah

Or something to that effect. I would have been glad to respond to your
post, but I didn't meet the criteria. Namely, I've not seen it
firsthand, only have second hand stories.

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: Kicking with instep vs. ball
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:08:15 GMT

The following comments apply for serious contact kicks, but are irrelevant
for games of 'tag'.

If the instep is straight (for a front or high turning kick), there is a
risk of damaging tendons and ligaments between the toes and the ankle.
You never intend to kick with the top of the foot, but intend to impact
with the instep (ankle joint plus about 2-3 inches towards the toes), 
however, the necessary precision is difficult to guarantee.

Ideally, the instep kick should maintain a bend (about 20 degrees) rather
than 'pointing'. In most cases, it's better to bend a bit at the toes, too.
This applies for kicking in shoes, too.

There were some comments made by someone that ball_of_foot kicks were more
powerful, but slower than instep kicks. Both kicks have plenty of power,
provided they use the torso (& especially the hips) well - the ball_of_foot
kick has less 'lift' of the torso (maybe even a drop) than the instep
version, so their relative power/impact (assuming equal competence) has 
more to do with the target than the method. 

As far as speed of delivery is concerned, many of the older style (ball)
kicks bring the knee around (like getting on a horse) - this is much slower,
but breaks firmly held boards in demos. 

Where the knee is brought through and the torso turns through ~90 degrees,
either kick will be quite quick, as long as the foot isn't tensed up too soon.

Tomasso.
From: giancc@csa.bu.edu (Chris Giancola)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fight Strategy in Escrima
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:02:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

>   Many people practicing "Escrima" do not practice
>high speed. Once they do they will have to come up
>with strategies to close in on a fast hitter. It is
>a matter of synchronisation with the opponent, in order
>to break his attacking flow.

I agree wholeheartedly with this passage in the article.  I have had
much experience with sword and and sword-type sparring.  Gaining a 
"combat sense" in sword (as is true in any MA) is VERY important
(that is, if you want to avoid lots of bruises and scratches  :)

Myamoto Musashi's "Go Rin No Sho" is what I have based much of my
sword fencing technique on.  This is the bible for Kendo, but it can
be applied to other sword arts with frighteningly effective results.
In it can be found much information about "synchronisation" and more
importantly: timing.  Speed is NOT the be all and end all in sword,
old Kendo Masters can EASILY defeat young champions, since their
knowledge of timing is SO well developed and ingrained into their
fighting technique.

- Chris Giancola
From: princecr@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:14:55 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

	A thing to remember is that the boxing you see on TV and the punchy
kicky sparring you see in tournaments is a sport, which is a game, which means
this whole discussion has the mentality of two childern debating who is
better... a snakes and ladders champoin or a tiddly winks champ.

chris.
From: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: SHORT REVIEW OF VAN D
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:38:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 

Not sure if you were serious in your comment that Van Damme as a
"ninjutsu guy". He isn't.  Impressive martial artist (at least in the
movies), but certainly not involved with ninjutsu.
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:34:02 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com
Keywords: SEALs, JKD

In article <1992Nov18.143751.23031@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer) writes:
|>
|> From there, they worked on all sorts of weapons, fighting distances (joint
|> locks, holds, throws, punches, kicks, blocks), and emphasized the idea
|> "WHATEVER WORKS!" Whatever gets the job done.  He said that a lot of the
|> fighting techniques and training were 'dirty tricks' and that you just
|> 'tried to fuck someone up as fast as you could without getting hit someplace
|> vital.'

Sounds very similar in conept to the Israeli unarmed combat technique
taught to the IDF.  It incorporates a bit of everything, with emphasis
on the simple, effective techniques, and survivability.

Not an art at all.
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: HELP: Muay Thai techniques
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:51:10 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <BxoLsH.G2L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jl52800@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Incredible Mr.Wong) writes:
>3. Any suggestions for someone who feels COMPLETELY awkward doing anything with    the left side of his body? I feel totally wrong when I try to kick or elbow
>   with my left side. 

Hey, here's a free piece of advice, straight from my teachers mouth:

"There is no such thing as an awkward position. There are only
unpracticed positions."

David Poore
poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu
From: la@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Lewis Alderton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:28:55 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <farant.27j8@terapin.com>, farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason) writes:
> HAs anyone out there seen Tsui Hark's film The Master--with Jet Li ?? Ist any
> good ?? The few bit's I have seen seem out of place for a Hark film.

No , but I watched the Lee Van Cleef series called THE MASTER - and that
'proves' that Ninja stil exist!!
-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                 |I do not know what I may appear to the world, but |
| Lovely Louie    |to myself I seem to have been only like a small   |
| la@dcs.ed.ac.uk |boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself|
|                 |in now and then finding a smoother pebbly or a    |
|                 |prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great    |
|                 |ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.    |
|                 |           SIR ISAAC NEWTON                       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate (belt system)
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.190126.206@pages.com> kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:

>In article <1992Nov14.045400.26626@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us  
>(Leif Ericksen) writes:
>[...snip snip ...]
>> 	True, the original belt systems was teh dirtier it was the
>> more experience you supposedly had.  THUS the tradition that YOU NEVER
>> EVER was your belt.

>'never wash you belt?

>This sounds like folklore, and I find it hard to believe arising from a
>society that places great value in bathing and cleanliness.

It should be noted that the belt system is _not_ Japanese, but is a
transplant from Okinawa, where it originated.  In traditional Japanese
styles, your were a student, accomplished, or a master.

Belt rankings were not prevalent in the Japanese styles until this
century.

--
"But the fact that a 1938 touring bodied Alfa Romeo I once had is
worth $1 million sometimes bothers the hell out of me.  It's a
personal problem."                                     -Phil Hill
Al Bowers                                 bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa Romeo  Ducati (DOD #900)
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martian Arts
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:38:02 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <26970@optima.cs.arizona.edu> hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue) writes:
|>|	I say the Martian wins every time. He just turns invisible and sneaks
|>|	behind the poor boxer.
|>
|>... not to mention the Space Modula-tor he usually keeps under his obi.
|>Really, the boxer doesn't stand a chance.

>  I've been in MA for about 6 months now, and although MA is great, I 
>don't see how anybody can consider a boxer easy to defeat.

[...pointless pro-boxing diatribe deleted...]

>I've seen alot of mature stuff, with all options considered enter this
>forum, but "the boxer doesn't stand a chance" is silly.  


Oh, hell.  I just give up.

Fish puns, anyone???



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:14594 rec.games.video.arcade:9049
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: looking for innovative uses of computers in MA
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:32:01 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

There are few of these. Computers have too much inertia to use in close
combat unless they are notebooks. These break at the hinge.

God - datalogging is boring.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:45:20 -0500 
From: "Nicholas E. Tolstoshev" <nt0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Tai Chi in MD/DC


I'm looking for a good place to study Tai Chi in the
Maryland or Washington DC area.  I'd appreciate any
recommendations for teachers and/or schools.

Thanks,
Nicholas Tolstoshev
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate (belt system)
Summary: don't wash your belt
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:59:59 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>
>'never wash you belt?
>
>This sounds like folklore, and I find it hard to believe arising from a
>society that places great value in bathing and cleanliness.

     It's quite true. From _Karate: Technique and Spirit_, by Tadashi
Nakamura, Kaicho of the Seido Juku system:

     ".....One's belt, however, is never washed. Every class you take,
every drop of sweat, every little tear or abrasion is part of what
goes into each student's unique experience of the martial arts. It is
something to be remembered, but not clung to. Therefore, no experience is
washed away. The belt must tell its own story, as does the uniform. The
uniform must be perfectly clean and sanitary at all times, but it also will
show its wear in imperfections, which are unique to the student. This is
called _sabi_, another aesthetic value from Zen."

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
Admiration, n.:
      Our polite recognition of another's resemblance to
      ourselves.
      -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Question: fumikomi (foot-stamping)
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:40:12 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <JON.92Nov20114048@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>In article <gf36Jhe00YUoEuo2F_@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>encounters the contact point (which generates the first sound) before
>it can get to the focus point (which is when the foot should land,
>generating the second sound).
>
     I would like to add my ideas on this to the postings.  I believe
     that fumikomi is fairly complex and that many learned sensei 
     will have different explanations and insights about it.  But 
     the way I view it has to do with shinai kendo versus actual
     cutting. 

     In kendo we practice barefoot and run through the opponent.  These
     actions are unlike the types of actual matches that historically
     demonstrate "how it was really done".  In Iaido you see differences
     the lead foot is planted before the cut so that the person doing
     the cut has a solid base.  In shinai kendo the 'sports' type of
     movement tends to allow the opponents to glide past an action that
     would not work with a real sword.  That is why the study of kata and
     Iaido is recommended to balance out the kendo curriculum.  The Iai/kata
     and kendo form the two wheels on a bike, both are required to allow
     it to function.

     How about it Al (Bowers san) what is your thoughts on real sword
     use vs. bamboo sword use.

     Maybe the karate analogy is Makiwara punching vs. taikai (tournament)
     point punching.  It is easier to touch someone and score a point
     then to correctly execute a damaging blow to the opponent.  I know that
     I have lost karate matches at certain tournaments after getting hit with
     a tag your it punch and executing a solid drop the opponent punch.
     This situation would leave me the winner in "real" life but I lose at
     a taikai.  I understand this and except it as a part of the trade off
     we make so that we can have taikai.

     Again this is offered as yet another point on the curve.


-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl)
Subject: Re: Iron Palm Training
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:53:15 GMT
Organization: SIEMENS Austria Corp., A-1100 Wien, Gudrunstr. 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Question was: Information on Iron palm

Booktitle:	Iron palm in 100 days, approx. 70 pages.
Author:		Lee Ying-arng
Publisher:	Unicorn Press, POB. No. 2448, Hongkong
Contents:	Origin, Formal exercises, basic exercises, the 100 days method,
the application of the palm in defence: the slapping, the throwing, the cutting,
the stamping, the dotting method, the "All Round" method of training, which 
involves hand movements without slapping, and which the author considers
to be able to develop the iron palm also within several months. 

Personally I consider this book a good reference for beginners, but it also 
has a lots of ideas for practise. The "All Round" method might as well be 
considered a Qigong exercise, "simple", but astonishing.

Ernst Krudl, Vienna, Austria (ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at)
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:43:38 GMT
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>A 70 Year old man whoopin' some young guys ass???? Possible, but 
>highly unlikely. Get real. I have never met a 70 year old man whose 
>ass I couldn't kick. 

I've met a few 70+ and even 80+ year old Masters that could _probably_ 'whoop
your butt'.  At least I know they could mine (6' 1", 210 lbs, 40, 2nd Dan).
Of course, they look like they are 60ish and for some reason they have a strong
odor of BenGay about them :), but they are truly amazing people.

If you devote your life to it for 60 years or more, you tend to get pretty 
good.  Even when the body does start to go...

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
    <1eb1rdINN38l@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> <13952@pogo.wv.tek.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:13:46 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <13952@pogo.wv.tek.com> roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud) writes:
>
>  For what it is worth! I have heard this "waza"
>  referred to as the IRISH KISS. 
>                                  :-)
>   
>-- 
Also known as the "Liverpool Kiss".

Charles Yeomans


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts