From: news@fedfil.UUCP (news)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Ted don't know Isaiah 14 either...
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:39:23 GMT
Organization: HTE

In article <Bq6ViB1w164w@PDaXcess.techbook.com), mongo@PDaXcess.techbook.com (Mongo) writes:
  
) Ted:
) >I won't bore you with excessive details here;  you can read it for
) >yourself in the King James bible.  The 14'th chapter of the book of
) >Isaiah contains a hymn of thanksgiving, after Venus settled into
) >stable orbit and ceased to be a threat:

) >     "How art thou fallen from heaven, oh Lucifer, Son of the
) >     morning [morning star] ... how art thou cut down to the
) >     ground, which did'st weaken the nations...  which made the
) >     world as a wilderness and destroyed the cities thereof...
  
) Unfortunately for your interpretation, verse 4 of chapter 14 labels
) the whole chapter as a taunt aimed at the king of Babylon; The fact
) that a human is being taunted is confirmed in verses 6,16,19,20 and in
) verse 20, the curse against Babylon is pronounced

The first human being ever to live capable of doing what the verse describes
(which made the world as a wilderness etc. etc.) was named Chengis Khan.  
Nobody in Babylon even came close.  The reference to a king of Babylon might
be an analogy, it might be a reference to Venus (Ishtar or Baal) AS a king
or god of Babylon, or it could simply be an extraneous reference.  The
appelation "Lucifer, son of the morning" is absolutely clear and un-
mistakable.  Lucifer was always the morning star, Venus.

) Similarly:
)  
) Ted:
) >   JOS 10:11  And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel,
) >   and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down
) >   great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died:
) >   they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the
) >   children of Israel slew with the sword.
) >   JOS 10:12  Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the
) >   LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel,
) >   and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon
) >   Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
)  
) It is _hailstones_, not meteorites, that fall and they fall _before_
) the sun stands still. Hence, if cessation of the earth's rotation
) is a result of a collision or near miss (!) with a large body, even
) if these were meteorites and not hailstones, they would have _preceded_
) the 'large body' according to this account, not trailed behind it as
) you suggest. It is also far from clear how much time elapsed between
) the hailstorm and the earth standing still.

The particular Hebrew word which is translated as hailstones (barrad) was
also used in the section of Exodus describing the same <barrad) as breaking
all of the trees and killing everything which didnot take cover.  Hail
stones don't do that;  meteorites do.  Again, the term "great stones from
heaven", and the reference to many Amorites dying from them indicates 
meteorites pretty clearly;  the use of the term "hailstones", or barrad
immediately thereafter clearly shows this term also to mean meteorites.

Next case.


) Ted:
) >Isaiah,
) >however, is talking about a different kind of an earthquake, such
) >as has not been seen in awhile.  The thing is, that when the CAUSE
) >of the earthquake is right there in the sky getting closer daily,
) >you don't need to be but so much of a prophet/astrologer/astronomer
) >to know that you'd BETTER get to high ground or do some kind of
) >thing before long, or your ass is grass.
  
) Neither Isaiah nor Joshua describe anything like the events you say
) they do. In particular, no looming planets.

It is questionable if they had a clear conception of what exactly planets were.
The reference to the morning star and its role in the great destruction
in Isaiah 14 is clear enough, however, as are also a number of other
references in the Jewish prophets ("the Lord hath a great and mighty
one..." etc.).

) Max G. Webb
)  
) Disclaimer. I don't believe in the inerrancy of any text, but I like
) to see them accurately quoted.

Then start quoting them accurately.

Ted Holden
HTE



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