HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lowen@lorc.eskimo.com (Lamar Owen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Keywords: apple, IBM, NeXTstep, NT, Kibo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 07:59:53 -0500
Organization: LORC Enterprises

In <1gqe4nINNdq4@agate.berkeley.edu> nweaver@soda.berkeley.edu (Nicholas C. Weaver) writes:
>In article <9212162327.54@rmkhome.UUCP} rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>}Well, that depends on how literally the emulate the 68020, and if it wouldn't
>}be better to emulate the 68030.

>	They don't really need to.  If I recall, the only real difference
>between the 020 and the 030 is the PMMU is built into the 030.  Motorola's
>chip designations are that even numbers are major increases, odd numbers are
>minor upgrades.  You don't hear about the 68010.  (Although the 68060 isn't
>as bing a leap over the 040 as the 040 was over the 030).  There may be
>other differences, but I don't thinky they will be too significant.

Yes, you do hear about the 68010.  Virtual memory was added to the 000, along with
some improvements in execution speed.  AT&T UnixPC's use 010's, as do many other
nice computers.  Sun made quite a few workstations on top of the 010, as did Apollo.


-- 

Lamar Owen, Systems Consultant          | If there were a tax on syn,
GE Lighting Systems, Hendersonville, NC | we'd all be broke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are not those of GE and do not reflect GE policy in any way.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: 80C86 (Re: Is 4004 the first ...)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:07:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.205323.26282@news.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
> The 80C86 is a C-mos version of the 8086.  Nothing more or less.  That
> means that it runs at lower power than the 8086.  If you want a radiation
> hardened launch certified mil specs microprocessor, the 80C86 may be the
> most available, with a cost not too much over $10,000 per chip.

With that sort of pricing it's no wonder the 1802 (OK, cjl has a think for the
PDP-8, I have a thing for the 1802) was still in use up through Magellan.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18272 sci.math:17348 comp.compression:4217
From: nevries@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Nico E de Vries)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math,comp.compression
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re: PI)
Date: 23 Dec 92 06:03:48 GMT
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht

In <1992Dec22.221324.14115@pollux.lu.se> magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>>>Why not just convert the decimal representation to binary, and store the
>>>binary expansion of pi?  That gives you log2(10) = 3.322 bits per decimal
>>>digit.  Assuming that the digits of pi are actually random, this is the best
>>>that can be done.
>>But since they are not random, we can do much better.  Write a program
>>for computation of the digits of pi (even an inefficient one),
>>and use that as your "encoded" version of pi.

>Converting the entire decimal fraction to binary is of course more
>"honest", but it's non-local: converting a million-digit decimal
>fraction to binary involves manipulating 3 million-bit binary
>fractions. Huffman encoding, in contrast, is a local operation.

But aren't all those arithmetic encoders invented to solve that problem?
Huffman is clearly less optimal in this case.

>              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
>    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
>        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
> magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
>PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q


Nico E. de Vries  (nevries@cc.ruu.nl) |------------------*   AA   III  PPP
_ This text is supplied AS IS, no warranties of any kind |  A  A   I   P  P
| apply. No rights can be derived from this text. This   |  AAAA   I   PPP
| text is likely to contain spelling and grammar errors. |  A  A   I   P
*---------------------------( Donate to GreenPeace! )----*  A  A  III  P

To get (many) ==> LOSSLESS DATA COMPRESSION SOURCES <== get lds_10.zip at 
garbo.uwasa.fi /pc/programming. Make files for Borland C are included. 
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18460 sci.math:17556
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI)
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:44:26 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec31.012553.146@front.se> samuel@front.se writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.091130.2068@pollux.lu.se>, magnus@thep.lu.se 
>(Magnus Olsson) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec30.010852.143@front.se> samuel@front.se writes:

>>>If this is the case, does anybody know if there
>>>is some common denomination for "such trancendental" numbers ?

>> "Computable numbers"?

>Definition in this posting : Computable numbers = All numbers that are the
>output of some kind of algorithm (Trancendental as well as non-trancendental,
>please note that ALL non-trancendental numbers are computable). 

>Example : SUM(10^-(n!)), which is a computable trancendental number.

>In article <...>, john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes :
>>The decimals in PI *do* appear in a highly systematic and predictable fashion.
>>There are many algorithms for predicting what the next one will be.

>I must admit that I have become confused now. Since, as John points out, there
>exist many algorithms to determine the decimals of PI, then PI ought to
>be a computable number also ! But I have a strange (and perhaps totally
>irrelevant) gut feeling that this is NOT the case. What do you say, Magnus ? 
>One difference between PI and SUM(10^-(n!)) is that the decimal expansion of 
>the latter is much simplier to calculate, but this seems to be a VERY WEAK
>argument !

>My questions to any math guru out there are the following :
> 1. Is PI a computable number ?

Of course - after all, there is an algorithm to generate it.  Why on
Earth do you think it may not be?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: Brian.Milner@brunel.ac.uk (Brian D Milner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: PDP-11: A Physical Threat :)
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:08:58 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK


A computerphobe of my aquaintence was told by a Mac salesman that the 
difference between hardware and software was that, if dropped on your
foot: hardware hurts, software doesn't.

He evidently hasn't seen some of the manuals on my shelves!

I wonder if that's why a PC Support Officer sitting not a million miles
from where I'm sitting dropped 5 386s on the floor? 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|Brian Milner, The Computer Centre, Brunel University , West London, UK   |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|brian.milner@brunel.ac.uk | Failed films #27 -  The Sound of Mucus       |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18382 sci.math:17451 comp.compression:4255
From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math,comp.compression
Subject: Re: Compressing decimal expansion of pi (was Re: PI)
Date: 28 Dec 92 10:08:48 GMT
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden

In article <1hlbg7INNcm5@gap.caltech.edu> madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes:

>Magnus (three-jet) Olsson 

Hey! That's a new nickname! I wonder how many people will make the
connection with my .sig? :-) 

>continues to wonder:

Actually, I was using the past tense in my post. 

>>> given the first million digits of pi, how well can we expect a
>>> *general-purpose* compression algorithm to compress it? 
>Do you mean a general purpose text compression program, or a general
>purpose decimal compression program?

General-purpose text compression programs are perhaps most interesting
in this case, since they're more readily available.

>So have we beaten this issue to death yet?

I think you (and others) have answered the original question quite
comprehensively. And, yes, I did see your previous post with the C
source code; I haven't had time to try it yet, but I'll sure remember
it if I ever get the need to compress large strings of digits really
tightly (though I think that a Huffman compressor would do quite well
for practical purposes).

              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology,alt.geek,alt.non.sequitur,alt.licker.store
From: andyh@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Holyer)
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:28:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.014759.14009@tc.cornell.edu> mdw@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
>In article <1h5b27INNe3b@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> harrisot@cps.msu.edu (Timothy R Harrison) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec19.095027.7642@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec18.151353.9559@adimail.uucp> tel@adimail.uucp (Terry Monks) writes:
>>>
>>>>		  Kibo
...
>>	Kibo
...
>
>The verb form is conjugated, in Russian, as
> (Ya) Kibo
> (Tii) Kibesh
> (On, ona, ono) Kibeyete
> (Mii) Kibyem
> (Vii) Bacon
> (Oni) Kibyat
>
>The second person plural is irregular.

I presume that Kibyat' is an imperfective verb ? :-)
-- 
&ndy Holyer, School of Cognitive and     |Due to recent events in the USA,
Computing Studies, University of Sussex, |I find I can no longer use this
JANET: andyh@cogs.sussex.ac.uk           |.sig quote. Normal service will
                                         |be resumed when I find another one.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak)
Subject: Re: New "Hello" program
Organization: The Horrible Sleeping Church
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:41:04 GMT

Dave Brown (dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec10.083202.18120@news.columbia.edu> slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser") writes:
: >c3q@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
: >>
: >Well, he was the first into my global killfile, which now has six entries, two
: >of which are for Dannie-boy, one for some schmuck whose caps lock key is
: >jammed, and one for the idiot who kept posting his homework problems here.
: >
: >alt.fan.dannie-drucker, anyone?
: >
: >
: What a wonderful idea!  
: %-)

No, make that alt.fan.dannie-drucker.weenie.weenie.weenie. :-)
(alternatively, use the word 'whacker', whic the Jargon file says, is
one who calls himself a wizard despite the opinions of everyone else...)


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Andrew Bulhak		| Indeed! But do not reject these teachings |
|  sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au	| as false because I am crazy. The reason   |
|  Monash Uni, Clayton,         | that I am crazy is because they are true. |
|  Victoria, Australia          |                 - Malaclypse the Younger  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: tel@adimail.uucp (Terry Monks)
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Organization: Automata Design, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:41:04 GMT

Timothy R Harrison (harrisot@cps.msu.edu) wrote:
: Isn't kibo declined
: 
: 	Kibo
: 	Kibas
: 	Kibat
: 	Kibamus
: 	Kibatis
: 	Kibant
: ?
: 
: Tim


No.

Terry "I'm not a keyboard, but I play one in a band" Monks

-- 
Terry Monks        Automata Design Inc    (703) 742-9400

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: octal to decimal converter?
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:33:55 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
>
>Of course DEC did build a VAX out of microprocessors -- the 11/730 (and
>11/725, which is the same CPU in a smaller box with a built-in (RC25)
>disk drive).  Pull the main CPU board out, and you find eight AM2901 
>chips in a bunch.....

Really? Wow! What sequencer do they use? Their own craft/cruft, or more AMD
chips? Why not use the 2903 instead of the '01?

(sorry, sorry...as a neophyte with an inferiority complex, I collect old data
sheets etc., and when someone mentions something I know about, I get all
excited)

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: alt.fan.multics, any interest in a Multics (OS) newsgroup?
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:23:13 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <1992Dec23.103322.26752@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
> Oh, while you're writing that, throw in Multics-style *-name matching,
> and an =-name convention.  Lacking them doesn't cost me as much time, 
> but still I miss them.

I would kill to be able to type ``cp *.c =.c.old''.  On the one hand,
argument parsing and wildcard expansion occupied inordinate amounts of
code; on the other it was quite possible to use *-name semantics in an
intuitive fashion for non-filename arguments.

I'd also like to be able to use the com_arg_ stuff to find out if the
code is running as an active function.  For non Multicians, this allowed
active functions (the Multics equivalent of the shell backquote
mechanism) to produce different (usually terser) output.

ian
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,sci.math
From: baltman@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Brian Altman)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Is 4004 the first microprocessor ?
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:37:48 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

On a side note, does anyone have an idea (I'm sure I'll hear a few :)) of
exactly where the 80C86 fits into the x86 family? I assume it was pre-286.

-Brian
From: indiv35@imsor.dth.dk (Henrik Sahlholt (bfn - 2/93))
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: LD-ROM vs CD-ROM (as in LaserDisc)
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:44:10 GMT
Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education

In <C0301L.6IF@babbage.ece.uc.edu> tmcbraye@thor.ece.uc.edu (Tim McBrayer) writes:

>In article <KLUND.92Dec29162714@e40-008-7.mit.edu>, klund@athena.mit.edu (Kent H Lundberg) writes:
>|> 
>|> CDs can hold something like :
>|> (75 minutes)x(60 sec)x(44.2 kHz)x(2 bytes (16bit))x(2 channels (stereo))
>|> which comes out to 795M (this make sense because of formatting, blah, blah)
>|> 
>|> OK, so does anyone know how much a LaserDisc ROM system could hold?
>|> (You can quote either per-side or per-disc.)
>|> 
>|> --> Kent Lundberg

>Just having purchased a LD player, I was curious about this too.  There's
>_almost_ enough information to tell, but I'm short a few numbers.  Here goes.

>In CAV format (30 min per side), the video is recorded one frame per disc
>revolution.  Also, the video picture is digitized at 425 lines per frame.
>Two figures are missing: the horizontal digitization rate, and the bits per
>pixel.  So, lets guess.  Since a television has a 4x3 aspect ratio, I'll
>assume square pixels and use 425 x (4/3) = 567 pixels horizontal resolution.
>Also, 24 bits is generally considered "true color."  This makes LD capacity
>to be (at least on the order of):

>(30 min)x(60 sec/min)x(30 frames/sec)x(567x425 pixel/frame)x(24 bit/pixel)
>= 312,303,600,000 bits (3.123x10^11 bits)

>which converts to ~291 Gb/side, CAV format.  Of course, CLV format plays for
>60 min/side, making total possible data capacity ~582 Gb/side.  Accounting
>for "formatting, blah, blah" overhead leaves 660Mb/795Mb = 0.83 of the disk
>for data, at CD overhead rates.  This yields 582Gb x 0.83 = 483Gb.

Whouah, biiiiig mistake!!! Video is not digitized on Laserdisks even though
they 'look like CDs'. Instead, the video is FM-modulated which is then cast as
a series of 0's and 1's with varying spacing. I'm surprised you couldnt tell
this discrepancy by the large difference of a CDs capacity and the LD capacity
you calculated!



If you would like to estimate the formatted _digital_ capacity of a LD the best
thing would simply be to compare the surface area of the 2 mediums. This does-
nt, however, takes in consideration that a digital LD probably (I think) have
to be CAV-encoded to allow faster access.

>Of course, I may be incorrect on my numbers; I'd *love* for somebody to correct
>me.


Well, then, there you have it!  :)


Henrik Sahlholt

--
(indiv35@imsor.dth.dk or d01hs@vm2.uni-c.dk)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Subject: Library of Congress as a size metric
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:01:43 GMT

While trying to keep the brain cells humming on such a lovely day off, I
was contemplating really really large amounts of data, the whole mega/giga/
tera/peta/exa progression from TNHD springing to mind.  

At times, I've seen various groups use the amount of data in the Library
of Congress as a measure of how much data can be stored in a medium
(i.e. x CD-ROMS can store the Library of Congress).  Encyclopedia Britannica
also comes to mind as a metric.  

Question: What is the accepted figure for the size of the L of C?  Are we
talking terabytes?  Magnitudes greater?  Who actually computed it and why?
Same for the EB...  any ideas?  I'm just being curious here...

-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us

Caught a SIGSEGV - .newsrc trashed
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18494 sci.math:17591
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The Net achieves major-conspiracy status!
Date: 2 Jan 1993 13:06:45 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu


This is not their first mention of Internet in the Economist.

In May or June of 92, they had an issue on telecommunications.  In it
they discussed the Internet and the fact that no one really knows how
big it is at any one time. Good article.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: octal to decimal converter?
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:22:04 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:
>     I have a couple of problems with the baseline. First it assumes an async
> TTY terminal. Can we modify as need be for a sync terminal environment?
>    Also why do we have to waste so much of the word? A 36 bit word will fit
> either 6 Fieldata characters or 4 ASCII characters...
>     The 'accumulator' restriction, why is that? The accumulator used may or may
> be destroyed on return from the system call. A0 is used in parameter passing
> often and isn't really used to do actual work. I'd most likely use A8 or A9
> first choice. Also a number of system calls need an X or R register to be
> set up as well, can I not use those?
>     (...on a Unisys 1100/2200 series)

The point was to not favour any architecture.  All common architectures
(barring bit slicers, four bitters or worse) can manage to shove a
character into the bottom end of a word register/accumulator and perform
the architecture's equivalent of a subroutine call.  In bare metal code
you normally do just that -- as cjl & I demonstrated in our console I/O
routines for the PDP-8 (cjl) and pdp11 (me).  We've both written these (or
close equivalents) in Real Life on the architectures we were comparing,
as have many others.  

In any case, the point was to demonstrate real-ish problems with a real 
(if primitive) I/O model.  Have you programmed an 8-bit micro?  If you have,
it'd be a pretty safe bet that the "operating system" (if any) provided
routines that functioned in pretty much the way I described.  Certainly the
8-bitters I've coded on (Trash-80, apple ][, BBC micro, others) all used
that model for console I/O.

As for your Unisys 1100/2200 -- just pretend it has a TTY attached for a
little while, with routines to read & write to & from it.  Or even assume
the character read/write routines get data from disk -- I didn't specify.
Think of the C putc/getc routines -- apart from the file pointer parameter,
these "emulate" character reads/writes on block data when dealling with
disk files.  Do you have C on your Univac dinosaurs?  8-)  For my test 
"rig" I just wrapped a couple of instructions around VMS $QIOW calls which
are inherently record/block oriented.

BTW: A 36 bit machine can manage five ASCII characters to the word....

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers