HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pond liner questions
From: jdeck@wings.wcc.wesleyan.edu (Joseph G. Deck)
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:27:20 EDT

In article <scheiman.2@sceng.UB.Com>  writes:

> I've tried epoxy paint and various fillers, to no avail.  The two 
> "halves" of the pond move together and apart too much for these 
> (presumably mostly due to variations in hydrostatic pressure of the 
> ground underneath, among other things). 

I agree with John Snyder about attempting to patch the crack first with  
tar or similar compound.  This would be the cheapest soultion if it works.
If you do use a petroleum product and it doesn't work keep in mind that
petroleum and plastics/ribber don't mix well.


> My current plan is to fiberglass it.  But your discussion raises the 
> possibility of lining it with plastic.
> 
> There are some unique problems:  the pond has a waterfall built next to 
> it, and I'd like to use it!  The problem here is that building the 
> liner up the face and ultimately into the waterfall's upper basin is 
> unrealistic and ugly, but if I don't do that then the "waterfalling" 
> water will run under the lip of the liner.

My ponds have a similar situation.  The lower pond is next to a granite
wall.  The upper pond is raised with a waterfall unto the granite which
falls into the lower pond.

{           __
{___________}  ________
                      {___________}
    upper      granite   lower

What I did to hide/protect the liner from UV is to dig into/uder the  
granite enough to build a small retaining wall so that the waterfall from
the granite splashes onto the retaining wall into the lower pond. 

> The second problem is that the pier (post?) of a roof supporting pole 
> is right in the middle of the pond!  This means that if I do use a 
> liner, I'll have to slit it to get it around the pier.

I  might be wrong but I don't think you will be able to seal plastic or  
butyl around the post.  You could fiberglass it though.  If you use  
fiberglass be very careful around the fumes.

> So what I want to know is about the ability to glue/seal/attach these 
> pond liner materials.  If I cut the liner to get around the pier, can I 
> get the cut reattached?  How?  Glue?  Heat sealing? 

I know you can glue peices of PVC together.  But I have my doubts as to  
how well it would work around the post.

> And what about attaching it at the edge next to the waterfall?  
> Silicone rubber glue or sealer?  Something else?  (For that matter if I 
> go the fiberglass route this edge still needs sealing--what are your 
> suggestions?)

I tried silicone sealer to glue PVC to the granite without success.

Another option would be to use a very dense clay  (Bentonite).  Has anyone 
out there installed a clay pond?  I am considering this for my next pond
and would like comments on any problems they encountered as well as cost
estimates.
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: herbed vinegars
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:10:04 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA


> MY wine vinegar is wine allowed to ferment to vinegar. ...

Wine nor cider "ferments" to vinegar.  Wine and cider making are
primarily anaerobic fermentations.  However, once the alcohol is in
solution you simply oxidize it and you get vinegar (alcohol -> acetic
acid).

---

Ben
From: macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How to grow grass?
Date: 1 Sep 1992 15:19:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug31.202215.15191@primerd.prime.com> mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott) writes:
>
>I suspect that there is FAQ info around somewhere about how to plant and
>grow grass from seed.  If someone could point me to the appropriate FAQ
>or send me a copy I would be grateful.
>
>going to put down some seed.  What kind of seed should I use?  Someone told
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>me to use "sun and shade" seed.  Another person told me that "Lofts" is a good
>brand name.  Any other advice?
>
Learn how to read a lawn seed label. They are highly standardized, under
the auspices of who knows what bureaucracy, and tell you what kind of
grass is going to come up, what percentage of other stuff (called "crop")
is likely to be mixed in, and so forth. 'Course, you have to know the
difference between fescue, Kentucky Blue Grass, etc. I did not know about
this label business three weeks ago when I bought some off-brand stuff
called "playground blend".It turned out to be 90% rye, and is now growing
literally an inch per day. I guess it will get waist high if I let it.
Since I'm not interested in mowing three times a week, I'm going to have 
to dig it up and replant (fortunately, it's only about a 25 sq foot 
patch - looks quite bizarre sticking up in the middle of the lawn.)
Mack Burnham

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: klliou@milton.u.washington.edu (Kan-Lee Liou)
Subject: Snapdragon --> black spots --> wilt
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:05:19 GMT

I got great snapdragons last year, so I planted a lot this year (I even
used some seeds from last year).  However, they were not doing very good this
year.  First, some of them got small black spots on their leaves and then 
wilted.  Today, I just got rid of all of them because they all got black spots 
and wilted.  I got much fewer flowers and a much shorter flowering season than
last year.  I have to admit we have a water shortage this year and I did not
water a lot and did not use fertilizers.  The snapdragons were located at 
different areas of my garden, but they all got black spots.  If this was a 
disease, why were other plants close to them not infected ?  Can some expert 
tell me what I should do to prevent this probem next year?
Thank you.

Kan-Lee, klliou@u.washington.edu, Seattle.
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Under-lawn insects
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:27:50 GMT
Organization: -

In article <17ivtnINNmba@agate.berkeley.edu>, 

macklin@garnet.berkeley.edu (Macklin Burnham) writes:
> Well, I just learned something about how underground beasties
> operate, and I herewith pass the lesson along in the hope that it
> helps another neophyte.My lawn has been slowly dying since early July.
> [Part deleted] However, I couldn't find any
> critters above or below the blighted areas. Eventually, I happened to dig
> up a piece of healthy sod from the edge of the dying area and 
> bingo: grub city! The roots are infested with little white-yellow worms
> of some kind. So that's the lesson:look for insects in the parts of the
> lawn that haven't been killed yet.
> 
> Oh, on the advice of my nurseryman, I've dusted the entire lawn with
> Dursban and soaked it in. The dead parts will definitely have to be
> replanted. :-(

You must have had a zillion June bugs this year?

You should also dust the lawn with milky spore (virus?).  It will
take about 3 years to establish complete control, but once it does the
grubs won't be a problem for at least the next 12 years.  It also is
totally safe and non-toxic.

Jim
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Big Shrubs
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:25:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT

jessup@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Elizabeth Jessup)

> I recently bought a house with a lot of badly overgrown shrubs and
> trees and would like some more advice about pruning.  
> 
> stuff deleted to save bandwidth..............
> 
> Thanks in advance for any instructions you can give.  Or is there a
> good book to read about pruning and caring for my big plants.  
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Liz Jessup

I have previously recommended the book _Lnadscape Design, Renovation and 
Maintenance_ by Cass Turnbull, Betterway Publishers, ISBN:1-55870-208-3.  
This book is specifically about getting an overgrown yard under control 
without throwing everything out and replanting (which will take years until 
it looks good).  She also covers moving large shrubs (Amy McNulty take 
note) but not as well as the response to Amy's posting did.

Note: I am in no way connected with these publishers or with Cass Turnbull.  
I just think this is the neatest book about grounds mainenance I've ever 
seen.

amy@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Amy McNulty) asked:
> 
> I'm looking for advice on transplanting a mature
> rhododendron -- specifically, when would be the best
> time of year to do it (in eastern Massachusetts),
> and any hints on helping to ensure that it survives
> the procedure.

And received a fine answer.

I am in the same position. About to move a rhody to excavate an old 
in-ground oil tank.

I just recently moved a large azalea and it was a monumental task so I'm 
not anxious to start on the rhody.  The root-ball was just too heavy to 
maneuver so I finally pared it way down beyond what I could have imagined 
would work (and this in the middle of July, not the best time to move an 
azalea).  For the next week I kept a hoze dribbling on the roots, first on 
one side and then on the other.  Then we went away for five days but it 
rained heavily while we were away.

The azalea seems to have come thru very nicely and has only lost a few 
leaves and seems to have some new growth.  It's not so crowded now so gets 
more light and the lower stems have many buds breaking dormancy.  Hopefully 
there will not be too much of this for much longer so that it can get 
hardened for winter.

I suggest moving the rhody next month so it will have lots of time to put 
down new roots before the ground surface freezes and cuts of the supply of 
water.  Also, I strongly suggest wrapping the whole bush in burlap during 
the wither to keep off the drying winter winds.

Good Luck Amy,  I'm in the same boat.  We'd like to hear, next spring, 
about how your rhody did.

--Jill

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    |
From: stevem@gold.gvg.tek.com (Steve Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pond Building
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:10:50 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <714856577.F00003@therose.pdx.com> Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Jack Honeycutt) writes:
>
>Sitting by the pond is one of the most relaxing things I know.
>
>Jack

And you never have to water your pond plants!  They don't seem to get
	diseases, or have bugs.  Especially if a frog moves in.
And Koi fish make GREAT pets.  They don't bark.  They don't run off.  You
	don't even have to feed them. (But it is too much fun to not)  They
	don't poop/pee where they are not supposed to.  They don't tear up
	your furnature.  And they are alot smarter than you ever thought.
And waterfalls are so peaceful.
And, and, and.....

Sorry, got carried away.  I just like my pond alot.
Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Miller, Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA. 95959, Mail stop N32B
916-478-3059, stevem@gold.gvg.tek.com.  The Six Phases of a Project:
  1. Enthusiasm  2. Disillusionment  3. Panic  4. Search for the guilty
  5. Punishment of the innocent  6. Praise and reward for the nonparticipants
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gwb0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GERALYN WOOD BARRY)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: bringing my plants into Oregon - laws?
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:35:41 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hi everyone,

My husband and I will be moving to Oregon in a few months, and I am
wondering if there are any laws (as in California) about bringing
plants into the state. I have many houseplants (several of great
sentimental value and over 10 years old) that I would not want to
be parted from at the border by some kind of inspection. I will also
have 50 lbs or so of potatoes - my harvest from this year's garden in
PA. If anyone knows abou thiss or knows who I could contact to ask this
question, I would appreciate a reply!

Thanks,
Geralyn



-- 
.----* PATERSON,NJ/IRELAND *---searching---*  NEWARK,NJ/POLAND *-------.
| Carr,Cavanagh/Cavanaugh          | Frukowski,Kukla(NYC;Poznan,PO)    |
| Meahan,McKenna(also Brooklyn,NYC)| Nappruska(Poznan,PO); Renke       |
| Farrell(also Albany,NY)          | Oland/Olendrowicz; Zalewski and   |
| Harold/Harrold (Co.Tipperary,IR) | Woodkoski/Wlodkowski (Suwalki,PO) |
|also:Barry,Beggly,Bergen,Carson,Dively,Logue,Mahar,Stackhouse,Wendell |
|     Cosca,Davidson,Fratto,Lamerato/Lammirata,Maida,Pignanelli        |
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:29:32 EDT
From: Barbara K. Laufersweiler <BJK111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ID: "dolphin" violet ??
Distribution: world

Hi everyone!  I just bought this neat looking flowering plant
at the local houseplant shop, upon which I've had my eye all
summer, and I have no idea what it is.  Perhaps you could help?

The proprietor called it a "dolphin" violet, "like the fish" (!),
and I was thinking the flower on its stalk looked like Syringa
(I think, more description follows) from my now-packed Houseplant
books.

What it is:  -pale green, fat, fuzzy, fleshy stems & leaves
             -not upright (in a hanging pot now)
             -elm-leaf shaped leaves, pairs opposite on stem,
                rotate 90 degrees for next pair along stem
             -long slender stalk, 5 inches maybe, tipped with
                small purple pitcher-like flower; stalk emerges
                from junction of leaves and stem; 5 petals  x x
                                                           X   X
                                                             X

It really looks like an over-scaled version of a little plant
(several varieties) I liked in my books (remember, they're packed!)
Help ?!?

Thanks very much, everyone.

Barbara

.........................................................................
                                        Barbara Kratz Laufersweiler
    Weather always looks worse          Dept of Meteorology, Penn State
       through a window                 bjk111@psuvm            (bitnet)
                                        bjk111@psuvm.psu.edu  (internet)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: flourescent lights for growing
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<BtLqHy.BGL@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> <92245.123656XID@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:12:31 GMT

In article <92245.123656XID@psuvm.psu.edu> XID@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>But the point was to get more complete coverage of the spectrum.
>Incandescents will provide the red wavelengths lacking in standard
>fluorescents, and supposedly do it more cheaply than the grow-light types
>of fluorescents.  When I took a college course in indoor plants we were
>taught that 10 % incandescent and 90% fluorecent by wattage would be
>appropriate.  That would lessen the heat problem.

What can I say, it doesn't make any sense to me. Since incandescents put
out about a third of the light for equivalent wattage as flourescents,
that means a 10/90 ratio by wattage is about a 3/97 ratio by light. If
that makes sense to you, by all means go for it, but I'd suspect that
you'd find wax candles to be just as effective. As far as flourescents
go I think you can use the cheapest you can find, the gro types seem to
be mostly marketing hype though I've heard that some people like mixing
50/50 cool white and standard. Whatever turns you on. At these kinds of
low light levels, I don't think the spectrum is much of an issue. It is
when you get up to Metal Halides and High Pressure Sodiums which come
very close to duplicating the sun, but your electricity bill will jump
and you may get visited by the federales.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Australian plants/Ameriflora
From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 02:57:12 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

The NZ Christmas tree (called that because it flowers at Christmas
i.e., June) is a spectacular tree when in flower.  It grows to the
size of a small tree at least as high as a 2 story house.  It is
relatively slow growing compared with a pine tree. It is taller than
wide. Possums love to eat the foliage and will kill a tree. The soil
here is acid so assume they prefer neutral to acid.  They grow all
over NZ so can withstand weather that gets 5 degrees below freeing
and withstand lots! of rain. Probably like well drained soil and lots
of our soil is very shallow.
There is a big export interst in the plant recently and you will be
seeing lots in the shops in a few years.  There are about 5 varieties
located in the pacific rim, 1 from NZ

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder)
Subject: zones
Organization: Physics Department, Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:22:53 GMT


I keep hearing about zones (USDA zones?).  How do I find out what they mean
and which zone I am in?  I believe that our average last frost date is 
between May 1 and 15; our first fall frost is usually the second week in 
October.

Thanks

John
snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Ground Cover ideas?
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:20:06 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I'm relandscaping my back yard (currently a bunch of weeds) and am
looking for ideas for a non-lawn groundcover.  Here's the situation 
and what alternatives I've heard thus far:

Back Yard: 10 ft (North-South) x 45 ft (East-West)
  Sunset Garden zone 16-17 (border), sandy soil, _very_ flat
  Yard is north of house, has coast oak on neighbor's lot west of
  yard, dripline extends about 5 ft over the area described
  Has large deciduous tree (sp. unknown) on neighbor's lot north of
  yard, (all along north side) extending about 8 ft over area
  described.  (Am planning to have the north tree pruned back to 
  property line, but trimming Oaks is difficult due to local ordinances)
  so lighting varies from all-day-sun to all-day-shade.

  Area is subject to occasional and very light foot traffic.

Ideas: English Ivy (rejected as being too invasive, and harboring pests)
       Vinca Major (may have problems with foot travel)
       Creeping Thyme
       Heliocampus (may have problems with rust fungus)

I strongly prefer a drought-tolerant plant (which excludes most turf
grasses), if possible I'd like a native plant (but have doubts, as
most natives are pretty brown by midsummer).

I'm not planning on planting immediately (hopes of late spring/early
summer) as I need to remove some soil-covered (and weed-destroyed)
plastic (and the weeds covering said plastic) before I plant.

Any ideas or comments on the ones above?
				Tim
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder)
Subject: Re: Raising PH
Organization: Physics Department, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:05:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.230309.1975@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> rfrench@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert S. French) writes:
>Our local tap water in Palo Alto has a PH of around 5.5.  This wreaks
>havoc with my hydroponic gardening, since the PH decreases rapidly as
>the nutrient solution is used up.  I've tried adding lime to the
>solution, but it tends to settle out and clog up the pump.  I've also
>tried General Hydroponics' "PH Up", but even a full quart in my 35
>gal. tank doesn't have a noticeable effect.  Does anyone have any
>better suggestions?  Perhaps some chemical I could buy from a chemical
>supply house that would be cheaper than $10/qt for PH Up (and a lot
>stronger).
>
>		Rob


Perhaps baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)?  [Would have the side effect of
putting a lot of sodium into the solution, however.  Maybe you would want
some other bicarbonate.  The bicarbonate when neutralized would increase
the levels of dissolved CO2, also, I think]

What do aquariums use?  Maybe you could use that, too?

John
snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Raising PH
Organization: noitazinagrO
	<1992Sep2.230309.1975@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:04:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.230309.1975@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> 
rfrench@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert S. French) writes:
<Our local tap water in Palo Alto has a PH of around 5.5.  This wreaks
<havoc with my hydroponic gardening, since the PH decreases rapidly as
<the nutrient solution is used up.  I've tried adding lime to the
<solution, but it tends to settle out and clog up the pump.  I've also
<tried General Hydroponics' "PH Up", but even a full quart in my 35
<gal. tank doesn't have a noticeable effect.  Does anyone have any
<better suggestions?  Perhaps some chemical I could buy from a chemical
<supply house that would be cheaper than $10/qt for PH Up (and a lot
<stronger).

Wow, 5.5, that might be eating the pipes. Normally the problem is an
alkaline water source which is corrected with swimming pool acid, (Muriatic).
To correct for acidity, you want a strong base, like LYE?
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: curtiss@burn.colorado.edu (Brian Curtiss)
Subject: Re: Pink Pearl Apples
Organization: Center for Study of Earth from Space, U of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:57:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.145300.8844@math.ucla.edu> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>Is anyone out there growing Pink Pearl apples?  This is an heirloom
>variety.  I've only seen pictures but they were beautiful, with a beautiful
>pearly pink flesh....

Pink Pearl apple is listed in the '92 Seed Savers Yearbook.  The person
listing this apple is Nick Botner, 3424 Eagle Valley Rd., Yoncalla, OR 97499
(503-849-2781).  He has 297 listings, many of them apple varieties.  The
listing in the yearbook: med. light green with red-pink blush, good dessert/
cooking/cider, good storage, mid-September harvest, devel. by Albert Etter
in 1944.

For more information about SSE, write:

     Seed Savers Exchange
     Rural Route 3, Box 239
     Decorah, Iowa  52101

=========================
Brian Curtiss
curtiss@cses.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jeert@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Jane Eert)
Subject: Re: Pond liner / Bentonite
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:30:22 GMT


In article <1992Aug26.082721.207@news.wesleyan.edu>, jdeck@wings.wcc.wesleyan.edu (Joseph G. Deck) writes:

|>....
|> 
|> Another option would be to use a very dense clay  (Bentonite).  Has anyone 
|> out there installed a clay pond?  I am considering this for my next pond
|> and would like comments on any problems they encountered as well as cost
|> estimates...

I, too, am seriously considering using clay to line my prospective pond.  I
got the idea from a spring issue of Fine Gardening or Harrowsmith (sorry, I
can't recall which right now...).  If it works, it sounds like a very
environmentally friendly and simple way to line ponds.  So, I add my request
to Joseph's: anyone done it?

    Jane.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke)
Subject: Re: tomatoes won't ripen
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 20:02:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Sep4.142549.8993@stsci.edu>, yen@stsci.edu (Felix Yen) writes:
|> Someday I hope to participate in a Tomato Party reminiscent of the Boston
|> Tea Party.  (What does one wear to this sort of function?)

You should probably see if you can get the costumes from the classic
movie "Attack of the Killer Tomatos". 

Ed Clarke
clarke@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens