HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Re: tough times: advice sought
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:46:06 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: an2322@anon.penet.fi's message of Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:11:03 GMTLines: 32

In <1992Dec15.234837.22135@penet.fi> an2322@anon.penet.fi writes:

> Hi:
> 
> I haven't posted to this group before, but I enjoy reading
> it and often get a lot of valuable insight from others'
> postings.
<other relevant stuff>
> I'd love some advice/shared experiences from people.  I don't

I don't know how to respond via e-mail to an anonymous posting, so I am
responding (briefly) here.  If you send me your e-mail address, I'll chat some
more.

I was feeling VERY much the same way that you are a while back, & (don't laugh)
I got a dog.  I never realized how much that wonderful little being would
change my life.  Besides providing companionship, she also introduced me to a
whole new group of people I would never have met otherwise (neighbors with
dogs, folks (& dogs) in her obedience classes, people who own & operate the
little one-person grooming & pet-supply businesses around town, etc.  It got me
interested in a cause (rescue & placement of abandoned, abused & unwanted dogs)
& really took me "outside of my own angst".

PS: I'm also looking for another job, but will not leave this one until & unless
I find something BETTER.  It really would be foolish to up&quit without some
other source of income.  But its funny how a job becomes more tolerable when
the rest of your life doesn't revolve around it...


------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
From: jeffp@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jeffrey L Powell)
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Re: tough times: advice sought
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:12:17 GMT
Reply-To: jeffp@tekig7.pen.TEK.COM
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <BzCqrE.AIF@cck.coventry.ac.uk> esz001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Will Overington) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.234837.22135@penet.fi> an2322@anon.penet.fi writes:
>>Or does anybody
>>have any good suggestions to help me adjust my attitude so I can
>>get on with work and not feel so frustrated?  Any advice would
>>be much appreciated.  Thanks!
>>
>

I'll take the same advice... These are tough times for me also
and I was just contemplating posting myself when I saw this thread.

The reason for my tough times....just when I thought I was
over the hump on a lot of personal issues (depression,divorce,
etc..) and was looking forward to the future.. Wham, a heart attack
nails me ! I'm not that old (48) and I'm not ready for this shit...
Luckily an emergency angioplasty worked and I was back in the gym
working out in less than a week...So, I'm alive, but it sure has
made me wonder if all the "growth" of the past years was worth it.

So, don't have much advice but will be looking for some myself.

Best I can do is. "One day at a time."

Good Luck

Jeff



Newsgroups: alt.support
From: cath@stud.cs.uit.no (Catherine Sundnes)
Subject: Re: Is there a newsgroup for eating disorders or body image?
Keywords: eating disorders
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:42:42 GMT

In article <116150004@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> kay@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Kay Linder) writes:
>You can try alt.support.diet   

I do understand that some people thinks that eating disorders has something
to do with dieting, but we still don't belong in alt.support.diet. We don't
need support on dieting - what we do need support to STOP doing that. 

So when Karen writes:
|> 
|> I have gotten a lot of responses suggesting I try alt.support.diet; I 
|> appreciate that people are trying to be helpful, but it's sort of like
|> suggesting that an alcoholic check out "alt.party-hardy" or something.
|> I don't want tips on how to diet effectively; I want to deal with my
|> body image problems and speak in a forum of people who have similar or
|> more serious eating disorders who are trying to *stop* abusing their bodies.
|> (Not that I am totally against all dieting or anything, BTW.)
|> 
|> I am really surprised that there is not an "alt.eating-disorders" or
|> "alt.anorexia-bulemia" or something.  There really should be.  Is anybody
|> else out there at all interested in such a group?
|> 

... I agree with her 100%.

In fact I did ask for such a newsgroup myself once (either here or in
alt.recovery, can't remember), and I sort of got the feeling that mostly
people didn't want alt.support/alt.recovery to split up. But there is, as
Kay Linder suggested a  alt.support.diet , so I don't see that as a working
argument anymore. At that time I didn't feel like discussing my eating
disorder in a open forum for all sort of problems, and I still don't. I'm
NOT interested in all those other types of difficulties, and I know I can 
skip the articles about them and read only those I'd like to read, but that
doesn't seem right to me. 

Here's a test: Do you really think I should bother the hard dieting people
at alt.support.diet by asking: How do I get further down from 87 lbs ?
I'm 5 ft 2 and this was NOT meant as a serious question, so please don't
fill my mailbox with "You need to gain weight" or "wish I had your strength"
But if somebody out there can tell me how to deal with X-mas-time when my
psycologist has 2-3 weeks of holidays - please tell me! 


	Cath		-  who hate x-mas-holidays!
-- 
#               cath@stud.cs.uit.no             #  Catherine Sundnes     #
#                                               #  Roedhettestien 7/B209 #
# Student at the World's nothernmost University #  N-9010 Tromsoe        #
# "To eat or not to eat - that's the question." #  Norway (Europe;-)     #
Newsgroups: alt.support
From: esz001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Will Overington)
Subject: Re: tough times: advice sought
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:30:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.234837.22135@penet.fi> an2322@anon.penet.fi writes:
>Or does anybody
>have any good suggestions to help me adjust my attitude so I can
>get on with work and not feel so frustrated?  Any advice would
>be much appreciated.  Thanks!
>

I can't quite put my finger on why I am suggesting this, but can
I suggest that you might like to consider learning the Esperanto
language.

As you are on the net, you should be able to start reading the
newsgroup soc.culture.esperanto and, if your site gets alt. groups,
alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc which is a group specifically for learning.

The Esperanto language is probably nothing whatsoever to do with your
job, so it will give you a different interest.

You might like to start off by looking up Esperanto in a few
encyclopaedias. There is a net based Esperanto course.
It is advertised sometimes in soc.culture.esperanto.
It is free!

Many of us on the net chatting about Esperanto do it in English,
and all sorts of interestingly different topics arise, such as how
to print the special characters, words for chess pieces and so on.
The story of Dr. Zamenhof, who invented Esperanto, is an extremely
interesting story.

If you like to think of it as such, it becomes a daily treat to
read soc.culture.esperanto .

Worth a try?


Newsgroups: alt.support
From: jeffj@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (jeffrey.n.jones)
Subject: Re: tough times: advice sought
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:16:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.064607.536@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>In <1992Dec15.234837.22135@penet.fi> an2322@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>> Hi:
>> 
>> I haven't posted to this group before, but I enjoy reading
>> it and often get a lot of valuable insight from others'
>> postings.
><other relevant stuff>
>> I'd love some advice/shared experiences from people.  I don't
>
>I was feeling VERY much the same way that you are a while back, & (don't laugh)
>
>PS: I'm also looking for another job, but will not leave this one until & unless
>I find something BETTER.  It really would be foolish to up&quit without some
>other source of income.  But its funny how a job becomes more tolerable when
>the rest of your life doesn't revolve around it...

Well, this all sure sounds familiar. Maybe because I go through periods
like this at least once a year. I have found that whenever I change 
the type of work I do withing my company I run a through a period of extreme
stress until I adjust to it, that might be part of your problem. As the
other poster said so well, it is a lot easier to deal with your job when
it is a minor part of your life rather then a major part. Go to night
school, join some type of club, get your focus on off your job! Make 
your life full outside of your job and all of sudden life becomes 
interesting once again. Is it easy to do all of this?  Yes and no.
Good luck!

Jeff
-- 
 Jeff Jones  AB6MB         |      
 jeffj@seeker.mystic.com   |     
 Infolinc BBS 415-778-5929 |    
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: mazur@bluefin.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: 2000 Calories Exercise
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:41:08 GMT

In article <28040@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jane@tortoise.ee.lbl.gov (Jane Colman) writes:
>Pete Brooks has mentioned several times, and I have also seen
>elsewhere, that one should expend 2000 Calories weekly in
>physical activity.  Since the number of calories expended per
>hour, per mile, or whatever, is dependent on weight, I'm
>wondering whether that is an average figure based on average
>weight (150 pounds), or whether heavier people can really
>reach that goal with less activity and lighter people need
>to do more.

The 2000 calorie goal for physical activity is strongly suggested by
HMR for their fasting patients, as they have found that people who do
this level of this activity maintain 50% or more of their weight loss
after 18 months.  The risk factors assessment I posted a while back had
recommended slightly lower levels (adjusted for gender) than this (closer
to 1500/week--most people average around 300/week).

As far as HMR is concerned, the goal is not weight dependent, but the
activity is (and of course, they always encourage clients to do more than
2000 if they can).  So, a 300lb man will be able to get his 2000 
calories of PA in by walking 10 miles in one week (calories/mile= weight*2/3).
A 125lb woman would need to walk 24 miles to reach the same 2000 calories.
However, that 125lb woman might be able to do higher intensity activity,
say 45 mins on the stairmaster, to try and minimize the amount of time
spent exercising.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Yogurt cheese. Now what?
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:48:25 GMT

How to make yogurt cheese?  That's easy.

Put some yogurt in some cheese cloth and suspend it in your fridge, so
that all the whey drips out.  It might work to put the yogurt in a
fine sieve and put the seive in a bowl to catch the whey as it 
drips out.  NOTE:  Be sure to use yogurt that doesn't contain
gelatin.  (I found that nearly every brand of nonfat yogurt in
the store contained gelatin.  Only Altadena's didn't.).

Anyway, after 24 hours you've got a ball of something that is the
consistency of soft cream cheese.  

I think I'll try to use the yogurt cheese in my "Light Cheese Pie"
recipe, in place of the ricotta cheese.  I do find that it is a 
bit sour, but I can always add in some sweetner.

One of these days I'll try my hand at making my own non-fat
yogurt again.
--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: cuzz@ellis.uchicago.edu (Laura Cuzzillo)
Subject: Re: Exercise - Martial Arts
Reply-To: cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:53:22 GMT

In article <Dec.9.10.04.15.1992.6205@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
>
>I don't know what any of these are.  I think that Tai Chi Chuan
>is out because its more of a meditative exercise - is that right?
>But what is the difference between Jujitsu and Tae Kwon Do?
>
>Will I get any significant aerobic exercise from either of these
>classes?  If so, then my problem is solved.  I know I'll go, because
>missing a class will mean not being able to do the next class.  Also,
>I'll be interested.
>
>Anyone know anything about this?
>

Whether or not you will get significant aerobic exercise really
depends on the teacher.  I would say in most schools classes for
beginners are not aerobic because the students lack a technical
facility with the techniques to enable them to do them quickly
and repeatedly.  In karate, much of the aerobic work is in sparring,
but many schools don't let beginners spar.  Even when you do spar,
it is physically (not to mention mentally) challenging, but it is
rarely continuous for long periods.  In my school, we may do 2 or
3 minute rounds, but they are separated by at least that much time.
I'm a pretty advanced student (brown belt with 5.5 years training),
and I have to supplement my training with other aerobic work in
order to have the stamina I need for karate.  There are some schools
that really emphasize conditioning, however, and you would get a
good aerobic workout in those.  

Tai chi is ALOT harder than it looks, but it is not aerobic.

I don't know much about jujitsu, but it does involve falling and
rolling, which can be aerobic if done constantly.  Just try falling
down and getting up repeatedly for 15 minutes.

Laura
cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu



Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu ()
Subject: How much do you weigh?
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 11:59:55 EST


This is going to sound really stupid, but I realized that I don't
even know what I weigh without pulling out my WW book!  I guess
that's good....  Now that I'm close to goal I haven't even been
worrying about it.  Just going along down one week, up the
next and inching closer to goal.  Maybe I'm finally doing it 
the right way!

Margot

P.S. I tried on this $250 red car length leather coat this weekend!
The first thing my husband says is "It looks a little big" :).  Maybe
Santa will be good to me this year....

--
"I think we're passing through here kind of fast,
  Did you think these tracks in the dust would last? "
                                         - David Crosby
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Yogurt cheese. Now what?
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:14:02 GMT

Do you think that yogurt cheese made from vanilla yogurt would work?

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Bagels (Was: Does exercise make you lose weight?)
From: abel@vax.sonoma.edu
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:54:26 -0800
 <1992Dec8.225845.15194@inmet.camb.inmet.com> <1992Dec10.182151.28434@b30.ingr.com> <Bz4wKw.J8v@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <Bz4wKw.J8v@news.iastate.edu>, sjryan@iastate.edu (S. J. Ryan) writes:
> 	In answer to the question about added fat in seed bagels, I doubt it's
> enough to count.  There couldn't possibly be a tablespoon of seeds on one
> bagel, and, while there is some fat in seeds, the small amount you get
> on one bagel would be minimal.  In the parlance of labels, which are 
> getting so much press here, probably it would be <1 gram. Most of the
> other flavorings contain no fat, like raisins and cinnamon, though they do 
> add calories.  But the 200 or so calories in a cinnamon-raisin bagel are
> certainly better than the 200 or so from a doughnut.  They are much
> lower in fat, even with seeds.
> 
I certainly go along with the idea that you should use whatever works 
for you, and I certainly agree that lowering fat intake works for 
most people, but I think that it works because fat has so many 
calories.  If you have two foods with the same number of calories 
which are otherwise similar except that one gets calories from fat 
and the other doesn't, I don't see that one is "better".  The key is 
"otherwise similar".  Generally, for the same number of calories, a 
low-fat food gives you more bulk, and thus fills your stomach.

I could certainly agree with a statement that went, "200 calories 
from a bagel are better than 400 calories (a guess) from a 
similar-sized doughnut", at least for a dieter, or "200 calories from a bagtel are 
better than 200 calories from a little tiny donut" because the 
doughnut will leave you still hungy.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Oops
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:46:24 GMT

I'm just curious, what is it you don't like about fruit and vegetables?
The taste?  The texture?  The smell?  The hassle of preparing them?

There are so many different kinds out there, with such a wide variety
of flavors, maybe you're just over generalizing.  I don't know, of course,
since I'm not you.  

Maybe the first thing you should do is take stock of which ones you've
tried and which ones you really don't like.  How about getting a book
(a calories counter, or fat counter) that has listings of fruits and
veggies and go through and underline the ones you haven't tried, or 
the ones that you like and forgot about.

Another great diet food is grains and beans.  But I generally fix
my grains and beans with vegetables and spices, so maybe you wouldn't
like that.

There is no law that says you have to eat fruits and vegetables in 
order to lose weight.  It's probably beneficial since they are
readily available, and have lots of nutrients.

My last suggestion is that maybe you are in a "rut" when it comes
to eating.  I know that lots of people just feed on the same foods
all the time and never try anything new.  They automatically decide
that if they haven't eaten it, they don't like it.  My point is that 
there may be a wide assortment of foods that are low-fat that you have 
no idea even exist.  I suggest, if you can afford it, to start going 
to different restaurants from different cultures.  Especially the Asian 
and Indian ones, you can find vegetarian menus which are sometimes lower 
in fat than ones with meat.

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:02:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Here come dem sweets!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

Don't know about fat grams, but my last sessions at HMR covered holiday
nibbling.  They log See's candies (chocolate/nut/cream confections; analogous
to Fanny Mae in the Midwest) at 165 calories per ounce.  I *think* each
one clocks in at 3/4 an ounce, so a single one would hit 124 or so.

They gave us a box of See's at work as a reward for having a good year;
I decided to take it and munch away.  I had to pace it pretty slowly, I
am somewhat allergic to nuts and See's are full of nuts.  I don't relish
going through the effects of an overdose, as they are painful, dangerous,
and the diarhhea is, er, lasting.  (I'm also mildly allergic to chocolate,
but love it too.  I've long since decided that candies can be a *very*
occasional treat.)

Obdiet note:  If you are going to indulge, take a second and think "I'm 
going to eat this piece of candy.  I really want it, and I'm going to
enjoy it."  Then, sit back and enjoy.  I find that I'm satisfied much
more than if I simply scarf it up.  If I'm going to blip my cholesterol and
play bumpertag with my most dangerous allergies, it damn well better be
enjoyable...  [It also lets me refuse the second piece of pie/cake/candy;
my body/brain isn't feeling 'deprived'.]

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Magazine recommendations
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:35:47 GMT

I've found a couple of magazines that have some interesting 
low-fat/no-fat cooking ideas.  Quite often they remake traditional
recipes using no/low fat methods.

This months "Eating Well" magazine had a wonderful article
about the different kinds of bananas that are available.  They
even had a recipe for banana salsa.  Some of the banana they
covered tasted like strawberries or kiwi, one banana is said
to taste like vanilla ice cream, and another is supposed
to taste like potatoes.  I just wish I could find them in the stores!

Another magazine I like even better is "Cooking Light".  They
tend to be lower-fat than "Eating Well" and they also do remakes
of old favorites and have articles about nuitrition and exercise.

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Bagels (Was: Does exercise make you lose weight?)
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:04:11 GMT

abel@vax.sonoma.edu wrote:
> If you have two foods with the same number of calories 
> which are otherwise similar except that one gets calories from fat 
> and the other doesn't, I don't see that one is "better".  The key is 
> "otherwise similar".  Generally, for the same number of calories, a 
> low-fat food gives you more bulk, and thus fills your stomach.

I can think of two reasons why one might wish to avoid fat.

First: Fat is metabolised 100% whereas carbohydrates and proteins
have to be changed into something the body can use (or so the nutrition
pundits are saying) such as glucose or fat.  In the process of converting
carbs and proteins to whatever, 10-20% of the calories you just consumed, 
is used up.   Gram for gram I can eat 225% MORE carbs/prot than fat and 
still consume the same number of calories.  Plus you add another 
10-20% on top of that to compensate for the metabolic process and some 
small percent for undigestible fiber.  We're talking around 250%!  
Remember, fat is 9 calories per gram while carbohydrates and protein
are 4 calories per gram.

This is why I used to HATE dieting.  I didn't know that fat was so
fattening and all I did was count calories.  Therefore I was starving,
deprived, and doomed to failure.  Now dieting, and maintaining, is
SO much easier.  I don't change how much I eat, just _what_ I eat.

I recently heard that some Chinese folks that were studied ate 20% more
calories than their American equivalents, but were 20% less fat.  This
because they don't consume anywhere near the amount of fat as we do.

Second reason to avoid fat is that it contributes to heart disease, 
cancer and obesity.  

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet