From: pelton@ecf.toronto.edu (PELTON MATTHEW ALAN)
Subject: Re: Abortion, Caves, Galen (WAS Vegetarianism and abortion)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:29:05 GMT

In article <Jan.27.18.27.17.1993.11675@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan R. Hagan) writes:
>pelton@ecf.toronto.edu (PELTON MATTHEW ALAN) writes:
>
>
>>  Oh, boo-hoo.  Better to go through with what many would consider murder?
>                                                ^^^^
>
>Many may consider it murder, but if the woman, herself, does not consider
>it murder, then what others think has no effect on her experience.  
>Therefore, it is better to go through with what many would consider murder
>as long a she, herself, considers it a wise decision.
>
>I would prefer to have an abortion, which is a safe and legal medical
>solution to an unwanted pregnancy, than to be forced by law to carry
>it to term. 
>
>How others interpret this procedure has no bearing on the matter.  It
>seems to be a theme with "pro-life" advocates that people should 
>consider society's opinions to be more important than their own.  On
>the other hand, pro-choice advocates believe that ones own personal 
>philosophy is what a decision should be based on.

  I can never understand how people can actually use this argument.  Of course
it matters what the morality of society in general is.  If a serial killer
considers his actions morally acceptable, does society have no right to stop
him?  If somebody considers it morally right to rape, don't we have the         
authority to stop him from doing so?  Why would abortion be any different?  
If society in general considers it a crime to commit abortion, then they have
the authority to stop abortions.  If society sees it as murder, they have as 
much right to stop it as any other form of murder.
  The pro-life groups, as bad as they are, at least have the advantage over the
pro-choice groups of realizing what the true issue is.  Abortion isn't about
individual liberties or women's rights.  It's about murder.  If you think 
abortion is murder, of course you want to stop it.  And if you think it isn't,
if course you'll permit it.  As simple as that.  So don't use arguments that
don't address the issue.  Is it murder or not?
>
>>  Unless the woman was raped, she is partially responsible for being pregnant.
>
>So if she's raped, the rapist should pay for the entire cost of the abortion.
>But if she isn't, then she and her partner should split if 50/50 and he
>should give her a ride to the clinic and hold her hand while she's there.
>
>>Eventually, you have to accept responsibility for your own actions.
>
>Of course you do. Noone ever said that a woman should be absolved from
>responsiblity.  However, you don't seem to understand that claiming
>responsiblity for a pregnancy does not mean that you have to remain
>pregnant.  You can take care of your responsibility by terminating the
>pregnancy also.

 No, YOU don't seem to understand that society won't always permit you to do
what you want, and that if society decides that abortion is a crime, then you
have to go through the awful inconvenience of bearing a child and putting it
up for adoption.  And that you have no right to complain about the burden, 
because you can't blane anybody but yourself.
>


-- 
					-- Matt