From: ttran@cv3000.prime.com (T. Tran)
Subject: CALL FOR A DIALOGUE/Reply NTMTV
Originator: daemon@media-lab.media.mit.edu
Reply-To: @relay.prime.com:ttran@cv3000.Prime.COM
Organization: SCV Relay
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:29:25 GMT

I reprint Nguyen Phat's "Message-Id: <1992Dec3.163721.24351@ntmtv>" as is,
with my response at the end, marked by a double "*".


In article <1992Dec1.155429.7564@news.media.mit.edu> ttran@cv3000.Prime.COM (T. Tran) writes:

>                       A CALL FOR A GENUINE DIALOGUE
>
> We're part of about 850K Vietnamese who live in the U.S, most as refugees
> from the Communist government of VN. Most of us grew up in South VN, living
> through the regimes of Ngo Dinh Diem and Nguyen Van Thieu. Both these regimes,
> although outwardly professed to be sovereign governments, were, however, the
> creations of the U.S government, controlled and manipulated by U.S strategic
> interest, which was to build a bulkward against international communism,
> regardless how much it cost the people of Vietnam.
>
>   For those who question this, please read the wealth of books in the US
> on the origins of the VN War, the secret deliberations of the US National
> Security Council, Sihanook's autobiography, etc. 

>   The best concise history of this period for me was Huynh Kim Khanh's 
> "Vietnamese Communism, 1925-1945", published by Cornell University Press. 

>    For those who still believe in the causes of the old SVN, let's review
> together a few facts:

>   - The Diem government inherited the entire security and admistrative 
> apparatus of the former French colonial administration. All former resistance 
> activists, whether communist or not, were searched out for imprisonment 
> and neutralization. 

>   - With the US as the superpower protector, the Diem government refused to 
> carry out the provisions of the Geneva Agreement that required a national
> election to be held in 1956 for the US knew that in such an election, Ho
> Chi Minh would certainly win. (Had the election taken place, there would 
> have been NO VN War, NO division of North/South VN, and NO boat people !). 
 
>   - Nguyen van Thieu himself, as were most of the upper echelons of the VN
> army in its early days, was trained by the French, as part of the colonial army
> to terrorize and control the Vietnamese population. The colloquial term in those
> days was "ddi li'nh cho Ta^y."

>   All of these, of course, DO NOT excuse the failures of the Communist Party
> after 1975 in creating such MASSIVE resentments / fear /and loss of any hope
> for the future that precipated the exodus of Vietnamese from VN. It took 11 
> years, until 1986, for the Communist Party to officially acknowledge the grave
> mistakes it had made. 

>    But at the same time, it gives us, those Vietnamese from South VN, no right 
> to claim the self-righteous mantle of Vietnamese independence. On the
> contrary, if we try to look at the events of the last 100 years objectively,
> we've to acknowledge that despite our professed intentions, we might have been
> a party to the wrong side of history. That certainly calls for a measure of
> humility. 


I find it fascinating that T. Tran mentions a lot about Vietnamese
history and how the Southern Vietnamese government acted as a puppet
for foreign countries.  But it seems to me that he hasn't read several
chapters in Vietnamese history that are very crucial.  He doesn't 
say anything about the years when HO CHI MINH spent time in Russia.

Doesn't he know about it or he just tries to hide the fact in order
to perpetuate his myth?  I don't know about other people, but I am
not at all convinced at T. Tran's arguments when he "skips" things
around.


Phat


** The fact the HCM travelled to the U.S (reportedly worked as a cook
** helper at Park hotel in Boston), France, China, Russia, Thailand ..
** is well known to anyone who studies the development of Vietnamese
** Communism.
**
** Had you cared to refer to Huynh Kim Khanh's "Vietnamese Communism,
** 1025-1945" mentioned in my posting, you would have a detailed description
** of HCM's activities, which paralled the development of the Communist 
** Party of VN. 
**
** As for your fear of my myth-mongering, here are two quotes at the
** back cover of Professor Khanh's book:

** From the FOREIGN AFFAIRS periodical, a magazine for the foreign
** policy establishment in the U.S, assuredly free from any Communist
** subversion:

   "Based almost entirely on primary source, this is one of the most
    thorough accounts yet written of the rise of Vietnamese communism.
    Khanh sees communism in Vietname as a fusion of nationalism and
    Leninism, one indigenous and the other imported. The book contains
    a remarkable amount of research and will be useful to historians,
    general readers, and to policymakers seeking to understand
    [America's] Vietnam tragedy."

** The next quote comes from the Journal of Contemporary Asia,
** a reputable scholarly periodical:

   "Vietnamese Communism, 1925-1945 represents an important turning
    point in the historiography of modern Vietnam, and is assuredly 
    the best book on the Communist party in a major Western language ...
    An outstanding analysis of the first phase of the longest 
    revolutionary struggle in modern history."

** If your care to find out more about the "secret" life of HCM, two
** biographies written by Western authors are available for your reading
** pleasure:

   Jean Lacouture, "HCM: a Political Biography", NY, Vintage Books, 
                    1968.
   Charles Fenn, "HCM: A Biographical Introduction", London, Studio
                    Vista, 1973.

** Please peruse these at your leisure and please post any info you may 
** find showing the subservience of HCM to any foreign power.
** Many, myself included, would be interested in your findings. 

T. Tran
Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese