HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se (Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal.
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:37:29 GMT
Reply-To: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 084630HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu, HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu (Sleight of Hans) writes:
If you read this group (magician or not), if you even *LURK* on this group,
or if you are just passing through, PLEASE respond to this post and let
everyone here know that you exist.  I would like to determine the scope
of the readers on this group for a potential FAQ.

PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:___Dallas, Texas

MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:____Magician, collector, hobbyist

If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:____Some of everything
              AGE:___58
              YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:____45+

If Layperson: AGE:_____________
              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_______________________

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
A MAGICAL EFFECT:___Yes

WHY/WHY NOT:____If a person sincerely wants to learn Magic, there are
		many other ways to learn; books, instructions, etc.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:____I do not actively perform very often anymore,
			but still keep an interest in what is happening.


Jerry

==================================_=====================================
|| Jerry Blackerby          ||   | ~~   ||  Practice random kindness  ||
|| 214-907-7810 (w)         ||  \,  _}  ||  and senseless acts of     ||
|| exujbl@exu.ericsson.se   ||    \(    ||  beauty.                   ||
========================================================================
From: gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: disclosure
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:41:18 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In the opening givin by Harry Blackstone Jr. at a recent performance in
Memphis he asked the audience to sit back and suspend believe in the 
physical world and let their imagination take over.  

It is easier to do this if you do not know how the illusion is done. In an
article by Buddy O'Day (linking Ring vol 72 page 65) It is pointed out that
although the public thinks it wants to know what we are doing they are
disappointed when they find out.  Watch those who you practice around, wives,
children and friends. If you look, they are entertained much more when they are
totally baffled by what you have done. I personnaly love the amazement in my 
sons eyes when I wow him with a new effect that he hasn't figured out. He
appreciates magic both ways but he and my wife have both told me that to the
layperson the magic is not only in the technical skill but in the ablity to
suspend belief. By disclosure we limit that ability. 

In summary I will not disclose in this news group. The public only thinks it
wants to know. 


Herb Gould
From: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu (brian (malibu) peal)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: FAQ/Bicycle Decks
Date: 5 Nov 92 01:51:43 GMT
Reply-To: bpeal@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.


This post is proof that there are other than Magicians on alt.magic.  Also, today a friend of mine at school and told me he reads alt.magic.  This proves that by us magicians placing the devices/gimmicks in alt.magic it's like giving away our trade.   I plan to put on a large stage show at this university next semester, but I wonder, how many people read alt.magic in at my university?  Let's just email to people the REAL secrets if they want them.  How hard is that.  How about a vote Sleight of Hans?


			Malibu S. Peal


Clemson University
Computer Engineering
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shaene Steinauer)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:02:33 GMT

OOps, sorry.  Posted the aforeposted posting to the wrong spot.

Edited version will appear where everyone else posted...

--Shaene


-- 
--Dulcinea
    (Shaene M. Steinauer)
    (dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu)
****************************************************************************
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:23:55 GMT
	<1689BDE35.FLANAGA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <loon.84@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY



I thought people were suppose to MAIL a response.....


In article <loon.84@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za> loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (LOON M J) writes:
>   >>WHY/WHY NOT: The methods of magic tricks are by definition, secret, only 
>   to be disclosed in a teacher/student or magic/cult type of environment. 
>   i.e. if there were some kind of entrance requirement to this newsgroup then 
>   it would be ok.

This can't be done. USENET is an anarchy. There is no control, only convention.


--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
From: HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu (Sleight of Hans)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Stealing Routines
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:01:11 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Nov11.061859.10379@csus.edu>, arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur
Chandler) says:
>
> A young lady who calls herself Zany Amy did her act.  The opening
>routine was a straight 3-ball juggling act.  The entire routine -- all
>the moves, and EVEN THE MUSIC -- was ripped off without attribution
>from a juggler named Michael Menes.  The pilfered routine appears on the
>videotape of the 1989 International Jugglers Association festival, in
>which Menes was a contestant.  There was more juggling and magic; but I
>(and my whole family, who are all jugglers) was truly bummed out by the
>brazen theft.
>
>Now, admittedly, it took some skill to copy Menes's routine -- though
>she performed it with too many drops.  However, in the world of
>juggling, it's considered reprehensible to take, not just a move or even
>an idea, but a whole sequence of moves and the accompanying music and
>present them as your own.
>  What's the view in the world of magic on borrowing/imitating?

I often use other peoples routines, BUT i caveat them with proper credit.
For example, in my restaurant work, I use Dave Williamsons TORN AND RESTORED
TRANSPOSITION, and I've found that many of his bits and pieces really work
for me.  I use them. HOWEVER, even though the audience really doesn't care
I will always say (after the effect) that "That magic was taught to me be
a wonderful magician, David Williamson."  In effect it was taught to me,
'cause I bought the video tape!  :-)   This has often led to good flow
between myself and the audience who ask how you learn tricks and I tell them
about magical competitions and the IBM and such.  People really care to know,
and I feel that even though the name doesn't mean anything to them, I like
to give credit where credit is due.

In my town we have a small group that gets together once a month to talk
magic and exchange ideas and new material.  Whenever I present a new sleight
I will always preface it with the magician who created it.  ie: Ammars Clip
Switch, Marlos Bold Open Placement, etc...


| O |                                                                   | O |
|   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
| O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
|   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
| O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
|   |                                                                   |   |
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shaene Steinauer)
Subject: COMPUTER TROUBLE
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:12:27 GMT

Hi.  I have a small request for those of you who post.

Unless I just don't know how to get it to work, my newsgroup editor does
not let me scroll past 1 computer screen to read the posts.  In order to 
read posts with really long horizontal lines, I have to save the article
to a file, go to a different editor, and pick the post apart line by line.
This is very tedious.

When posting, could you use the <Return> key to keep your horizontal lines
to 1 screen length or so.  My screen is only about as wide as the lines you
see here.  

I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this, but it might make it easier
for others to read your posts.

Thanks.


-- 
--Dulcinea
    (Shaene M. Steinauer)
    (dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu)
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal.
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:20:16 GMT

I messed up the first time, so here is a second try...


>PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN:Clemson and Myrtle Beach,South Carolina
>
>MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:Layperson
>
>If Layperson: AGE:_27__________
>              WHY DO YOU READ THIS GROUP:_I would like to learn how 
					   to do small tricks as 
					   icebreakers to use with 
					   children, and to entertain
           				   my daughter. I won't be putting
 				           an professionals out of work! <G>

>DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
>"INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
>A MAGICAL EFFECT:_No______
>
>WHY/WHY NOT:  Based on the replies to this message that I have seen,
               the numbers of people who are in this conference seems
               very low. I basically feel that there is actually very
               little "exposure" risk in a group like this. 

               Besides, I really don't believe that even if we make
               it policy to share "insider" infomation that everyone
               will. I am sure that there will be some who will simply
               choose not to post details, policy or no; that is their
               prerogative!


ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:_____________________________________________
Wes
wvoss@novell.com

-----------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, and no one else's;
            no one else wants them; especially my employer!
___________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: van@teal.csn.org (Claude W. Van Horn)
Subject: Re: Magic
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:15:55 GMT

areder@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alex reder) writes:
: 
: I find lots of discussions in this news-group being directed towards
: "Store-room" magic.  That being magic which can be bought, I try to work
: with common objects.  I find you can do many wonderfull tricks without

I do lots of magic with those "hot loops" that kids make pot-holders
with.  You get a gigantic bagfull from K-mart of whatever for about a 
buck and a half, and you can do lots of neat "loop" magic.  They are
adaptable to many rubber band effects too, but can be seen a lot
better.

You can also use the spandex head-bands for many of these effects.
I just had two 20-30 yr old friends scratching their heads in wonder
over three or four effects I do with these little gems.

Van!!

-- 
Claude Van Horn :  Magician, man about town, philosopher, Perot Supporter
                   Voice Mail Expert, and general good guy.
From: fdeignan@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Bulldog Squeezers
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:48:20 GMT
Organization: Clark University

A few people emailed me with the correct answer concerning Bulldog \
Squeezers.  They ARE poker-sized playing cards manufactured by the
U.S. Playing Card Company.  They do have a one way back - which is
a picture of two bulldogs tied up trying to get at each other.  One
has the name Squeezer on his collar and the other Trip.  On one of
the dog houses there are the words, "Registered 1877".  I've been
told that Harry Blackstone Sr used Bulldog Squeezers for his card
effects.

I find bits of magical information like this interesting.  If anyone
has any more information on Bulldog Squeezers, please post it.
From: Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk (Andy J Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Disclosure
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:37:27 GMT
Organization: Henley Management College, UK


The whole question of disclosure has raged for many years, and many
tricks have been exposed to the public.  As a result of this exposure,
have all the magicians in the world gone out of business? No, because
the public forgets and in the world of children's magic, there are
always children who have never seen a trick exposed simply due to
their age.  Having said that, I will not post explanations of tricks
to this newsgroup as I believe that even though the public forgets,
there's no need to make it easy on them.  Anyone who really wants to
know will find out somehow and the rest don't care so why tell them?
There is an exception though and that's Penn & Teller because their
explanations are often more entertaining than their straight
performances.  A Penn & Teller special probably incites more interest
in magic than a dozen David Copperfield shows.  Just my four penny
worth.

Andy


-- 
********************************************************************
* Andy.Taylor@brunel.ac.uk       * Henley Management College, UK   * 
********************************************************************
* "...And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space *
* Cos there's bugger all down here on Earth." - Monty Python       *
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: msibbern@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Sibbernsen)
Subject: FF
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 01:27:13 GMT
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:50:53 GMT
	<1689BDE35.FLANAGA@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> <loon.84@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
	<BxM5pC.Ixs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <BxM5pC.Ixs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djstanle@napier.uwaterloo.ca (david stanley) writes:
>	    In the grand scheme of things there are very few people who
>   read this group and I believe that those who do have a very genuine intrest in
>   magic.  

According to lastest numbers, it is estimates that 13,000 people read
the group. This is "very few" who "have a very genuine interest in magic"?
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
From: jti01@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Jeff Isozaki)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: A Book for Card Magicians
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:50:44 GMT
Reply-To: jti01@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Jeff Isozaki)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov11.172340.20262@nmsu.edu> tnielson@spock.NMSU.Edu (THORIN NIELSON) writes:
>
>The BEST BOOK IN THE WORLD!!!!
>
>If you want to learn how to do first-rate card tricks (I do), go out and find  
>the  <<<<Larry Jennings>>>> book. This guy is the absolute Ninja. He is right  
>up there with Brother Hamman (sp?). I mean it. You won't regret it. 

 Sounds interesting, do you have any titles or additional details on
 his stuff? Thanks in advance.

 Jeff
From: gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: RE: IBM address
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:54:07 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

In response to the request for the IBM adress

International Brotherhood of Magicians
103 N. Main St. Box89
Bluffton, Ohio   45817


Marilyn S. Edwards  - International Executive Secretary
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler)
Subject: Re: Finger dexterity
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: alt.magic
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:27:41 GMT

 Some company makes battery-powered heater gloves.  I've never tried
them; but then, I live in California.    :<)
  My own favorite technique is to use 4 or more acrylic balls -- two per
hand.  If you can find a Chinese gift shop, they also carry colored
balls that will do the trick (the Chinese use them to combat arthritis).
Anyway, you work on spinning the balls around each other in a circle in
the palms of your hands.  You have to develop a quick, fluid set of
finger moves to keep the balls rotating smoothly.  Your fingers stay
warm and nimble -- and you have a new skill to wow your friends with.

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: elbel@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey Elbel)
Subject: Penn and Teller
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:08:44 GMT
Keywords: P& T

I shall attempt to post my brief interview article with Teller here.
I hope it works.  

In answer to a few specific questions, Penn said that only amateur
magicians have ever hated them for "revealing secrets."  He even told
of joking in a room with Siegfried and Roy, and David Copperfield in
which Copperfield said that a photo of them together could ruin P&T's
career!

Penn also says that he was NOT a member of the Residents, but had great
affection for their work, and would deny being a member even if
he was one.  Go figure.  He does play a mean bass.  "Domestication
of the Animals" was really cool last night.

Here goes...

~r AAA-file.txt

Jeff

If that didn't work, I'll find someone who knows how to transfer files
in here.

Does anyone know- is the Henry Hay book "Amateur Magicians Handbook"
or something like that title, easy to locate?  How much $?
Teller recommended it.
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: IBM/SAM membership
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:57:53 GMT
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <Nov09.152442.45202@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> tesla@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jon Nash) writes:
>   What is the cost of a SAM or IBM membership?


I think about $25 a year. I don't remember if there is a one-time
sign-up fee. Some clubs have them.


>   For the price of the membership dues what do you get?  Magazines?  Conference
>	tickets?

You get a magazine. You also get to attend local meetings. Local clubs
have one or more lectures a year. These are worthwhile.
The local clubs also have dues. Some join without joining local clubs.
You also get notified of the once-a-year national convention, which is
in a different city every year. You have to pay extra for that one....


>   Besides the dues and the interest on my part what else do I need to do to join?

I believe the SAM wants you to have two "sponsors" - or current
members to sign your application.
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: FAQ votes: So far...
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:17:21 GMT
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <294.2AFC0055@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> Chris.Colvin@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Colvin) writes:
>   Many moons ago I used to belong to the IBM. Can anyone send me an address?

International Brotherhood of Magicians
P. O. Box 89 Dept. G
Bluffton, Ohio 45817


----
Society of American Magicians
c/o John Apperson
S. A. M. Membership Development
2812 Idaho
Granite City, Illinois, 62040
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: lmh@world.std.com (Larry M Headlund)
Subject: Henry Hay's _Amateur Magician's Handbook_ was(Re: Penn and Teller
Keywords: P& T
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:11:37 GMT

In article <BxC3un.GBE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> elbel@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey Elbel) writes:
	(deleted)
>
>Does anyone know- is the Henry Hay book "Amateur Magicians Handbook"
>or something like that title, easy to locate?  How much $?
>Teller recommended it.
>

	_Amateur Magician's Handbook_, Henry Hay, 
		paperback,
		396 pages
		Signet New American Library
		AE 5502
		$ 4.95 US.

Like all paperbacks finding it can be catch as catch can.  My printing is
from April, 1983.  This is one of the books you can find in a general book
store,  not just magic shops.

-- 
Larry Headlund  lmh@world.std.com    Eikonal Systems (617) 482-3345
From: pbaker@tbag.tscs.com (Pete Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:17:50 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

On Sun  8-Nov-1992  8:11p, Sleight of Hans wrote:

SH> PART OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN: Florida, USA
SH> MAGICIAN or LAYPERSON:         Magician
SH> If Magician:  TYPE OF MAGIC:   Close Up, Table Hopping, Parlor
SH>                         AGE:   33
SH>         YEARS OF EXPERIENCE:   16
SH> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ART OF MAGIC TO POST
SH> "INSIDER" INFORMATION PERTAINING TO THE METHODS USED TO ACHIEVE
SH> A MAGICAL EFFECT:              It depends on the type of effect revealed.
SH> WHY/WHY NOT:                   There are many who learn more from a simple revelation than all this chatter about what is and is not appropriate for release to "Public Eyes"
SH> ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:           I have posted several effects here on the net, gotten great reviews from them, and not one person flamed me.. (just lucky I guess)
SH> I will summarize and post results in 2 weeks.
I await your replies with rapt anticipation...

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

            _
Pete Baker { }
          ( V-) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
pbaker@tbag <or was it> tbag!pbaker@uunet.uu.net <maybe> pbaker@tbag.tscs.com
============================================================================= 
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shaene Steinauer)
Subject: Re: Sample FAQ
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 05:28:04 GMT

If we aren't allowed to discuss tricks (And I think that would defeat
the purpose of the newsgroup)  I will still write to people personally
to discuss tricks with them.

Maybe part of the FAQ could contain a list of magicians who read this
newsgroup who ARE WILLING to discuss their tricks, and people can
write us personally...  

--Shaene
-- 
--Dulcinea
    (Shaene M. Steinauer)
    (dulcinea@cwis.unomaha.edu)
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: elbel@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey Elbel)
Subject: Re: Call for votes: To reveal or not to reveal...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:56:56 GMT

HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu (Sleight of Hans) writes:
I live in Illinois, USA

I'm an amateur magaician developing my skills

I practice coin sleights and cards tricks (primarily interested in close
up)

age 26

I'm not that experienced.

I think that the purpose of this group should be for EXPERIENCED
MAGICIANS TO AID ASPIRING MAGICIANS IN LEARNING THEIR CRAFT!

I don't know any magicians personally; I have no "magical mentor."
I would appreciate all the help and hints I can get here.
I don't believe that there are many people who read this group just
so they can spoil secrets.  It would be a waste of time.


>| O |                                                                   | O |
>|   | Hans C. Masing          "By all means marry: If you get a good    |   |
>| O | HCM100 @ PSUVM.psu.edu   wife, you'll become happy; if you get    | O |
>|   | HCM100 @ CBA1.psu.edu    a bad one, you'll become a philosopher." |   |
>| O | Penn State MIS Dept.                           - Socrates         | O |
>|   |                                                                   |   |
Newsgroups: alt.magic