HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (gut feelings...)
Subject: Re: Alfredo Griffin, Clubhouse Deity {tm}
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:52:30 GMT

In <12222@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Hairless Primate Huckabay) writes:

>Once again, Roger Maynard shares his wit and 'wisdom'...

>(Hell, you guys know who said what - the really DUMB stuff is Maynard's.)

>I can't accept this.  No one can be this stupid.  Sorry about the ad
>hominem feel of my recent posts on the subject, but this is just
>plain imbecilic.   Roger, do you HONESTLY think that Alfredo Griffin

>If so, there's not really anything left to talk about.  You're just
>a plain, old-fashioned fool.

>Won't you please give generously, folks?

>That's 1-800-DUHHHHH to pledge.

>Beyond *YOUR* analysis.  Kindly refrain from lumping my analytical skills
>with yours.  The very thought makes me have abdominal cramps.

>He is the sorriest excuse for a ballplayer in my memory or lifetime.
>He has no value of any sort to a ballclub.  He offers NO positives to
>a team, and demands a great cost.

>There are also lots of ways to lose respect.  Like not playing well.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I bow to your expertise on this subject anyway.

Tell me Mr. Gary "what is my name this week" Huckabay, is it Griffin you
hate?  or me?  is it life perhaps?

I have wondered why the small brains of 3 or 4 of you, open only a tiny
crack at the best of times, snap shut completely at the slightest hint
that personality might have something to do with winning.  It's obvious
isn't it?  Gary Identity Crises Huckleberry, with your personality you 
are forever doomed to be a loser.  

Check out Gillette's book and you will see that last year Griffin tied 
Larkin for the lead in fielding range among NL ss's with more than 100 
games played.  Don't like Gillette?  Write your own book, that is if you 
have time left over after your consulting contracts with TO/OAK/LA.

Tell me Mr. Gary &^%$# !@#^%$ Hairclub, do you change your name every
2 minutes because you are ashamed of it? can't remember it? or is it
a lame attempt to avoid inclusion on a growing list of kill files? 

>-- 
>*   Gary Huckabay   * "If Gary Huckabay couldn't hit a baseball 500 feet,  *
>* "Walks a helluva  *  he'd be of no use at all.  All he does is talk and  *
>*   lot more than   *  drink.  It'd be nice if he could field, but that'd  *
>*  Shawon Dunston." *  be too much to ask." - Pat Mustavus, Baseball Coach *


-- 
roger l. maynard                              
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca             
Sudbury Ont.                                
Canada                                     
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs132107@cs.brown.edu (Michael Kalman)
Subject: Re: The Mets Defense--How many runs? (was NL East( Smiley trade impact ))
Keywords: mets, defense, oxymoron?, runs, cost, fielding, stat-heads
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 23:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.181455.18142@panix.com>, spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
|> In <1992Apr3.053519.11838@athena.mit.edu> kho@athena.mit.edu (Karen W Ho) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> >>But the Mets have never had a good defense
|> 
|> >I do believe that the Mets had a defense near or at the top of their league in
|> >86. Never is a strong word to use.
|> 
|> The Mets '86 defense was at best average and probably worse.
|> 
|> Position by Position
|> 
|> 1b - Hernandez - Great

    And then some.

|> 2b - Backman - Bad

    I know '86 was a long time ago, but the season was so
memorable, and I think I remember it well.  IMHO, Backman
had a career year with the bat *and* with the glove.  I 
recall him making numerous sensational plays going to his 
left, and having accurate arm.  His error total was ridiculously
low, so he obviously made the routine play.  He wasn't all
that good going to his right and throwing left, but I still
think he was easily above average.

|> SS - Santana - Below Average
     Was consistent and made all the routine plays.  Also,
really good at tracking dowm shallow outfield flies.  He 
got McCarver excited a few times w/ some over the head
grabs running full speed.

|> 3b - Knight - Probably Below Average
    He didn't commit a single error until after the all-star
break, if memory serves me well.  Yes, I know error totals
can be misleading, but I still think that was awfully 
impressive.

|> Lf - Foster, and Mitchell later - Bad
     I think Wilson played LF against righties after 
Foster was released.  Mitchell was so valuable because he 
could play anywhere w/o being a major liability on defense
because of his athleticism.

|> Cf - Wilson (Average), Dykstra (Good)
|> Rf - Strawberry - Okay.
|> C- Carter - Still a good receiver, but a much weaker arm.
I agree w/ these last three, especially Carter who 
had a horrible time throwing runners out that year.


Overall, I remember the '86 Mets defense as a very solid
unit which rarely made crucial errors. 

You may recall a wild double play they turned against
the Padres in the 10th inning to end a game.  That play,
in which two great throws nailed a runner at home, and 
another at third, was very indicative of the Mets entire
season.


Michael
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Answer to Question re: 2000 Wins
Date: 14 Apr 1992 22:18:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

This should come as NO surprise...

The first (and only) National League team to get 2000 Wins
since 1969 (Start of Division Play) is....

		The Los Angeles Dodgers

YAY!
					BleedsDodgerBlue
From: pr0i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Pravin Devineni Ratnam)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Unbearable Braves Promotion
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:51:15 GMT
	<steph.702864468@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Senior, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Response to charges of sour grapes:

Every team has a TV station which follows thgem all season. KDKA ,
PIttsburgh has some overly sentyimental specials on the pIrates
occasionally. However when such overly sentimental mush is produced for
a team which has billed itself as America's team -thanks to the owner's
superstation- the team becomes an easy target to make fun of. When
Cincinnati wond the Series in 1990, I am sure they had one of those
overblown specials, whichthey are entitled to. But it would have been on
a local level and no such stupid billing as Cincinnati being America's
team with some celebrities chipping in the special.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Least Valuable Players (career)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:59:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.130115.595@sni.ca> dave@snitor.UUCP (Dave Till) writes:
>I stopped being impressed by Jose Offerman when he lost out to Griffin in
>1991.  After all, how good do you have to be to beat out Alfredo?

Depends on your manager.  Lasorda has definitely shown a preference for
veterans over young players.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: epstein@sunc7.cs.uiuc.edu (Milt Epstein)
Subject: Battle of Unbeatens: Jays and Yanks
Summary: Battle of Unbeatens: Jays and Yanks
Keywords: unbeatens jays yanks
Reply-To: epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:20:38 GMT


I saw this interesting item in the news the other day:

When the 7-0 Blue Jays met the 6-0 Yankees the other day, it was the
first time this century that unbeaten teams had met more than five
games into the season.

-- 
Milt Epstein
Department of Computer Science
University of Illinois
epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
From: odp@ldgo.columbia.edu (carl brenner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DUMB inexcusable play
Summary: Hard numbers, please
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:24:39 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

In article <204617@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:


> Actually, we can compute just how dumb this was, to some extent.
> 
> On average, a team with a man on second and two out can expect to score 
> about .35 more runs in the inning.  A team with a man on third and two
> out can expect to score about .38 or .39 more runs.  So, the marginal value
> of the stolen base is about .03 or .04 expected runs.  If we let 'p' denote
> the probability of successfully stealing the base, then the expected value
> of the attempt is given by
> 
> 	p * .04 + (1-p) * (-.35) =  .39 p - .35
> 
> implying that this is only a winning bet if p > 35/39, which is between 89%
> and 90% success.
> 
> Now, Coleman's career success rate for stealing 3rd is probably right around
> 90%.  What this means is that, in the long run, he's probably not costing the
> team any runs by doing that.  If it's important to his intimidation of the
> opposing pitchers to *always* be a threat, then it might actually be a boost
> for the team overall, as long as he doesn't do it in situations where the
> club needs one run immediately (like the 9th inning of a tie game).  It's a
> strategy that makes the risk-averse duck and cover, but it's not really good
> or bad for the team in the end.

	Jeez, I hate to sound like an asshole, but:

	I think your methodology is sound, Dave, but you're surprisingly
vague on the numbers. I don't mean to be picky, but it's odd to hear you,
of all people, talk in terms of ".03 or .04 expected runs." Why the lack
of certainty? You used .04 in your calculations; however, if you use .03,
his steal success rate has got to be better than 92%. You also state that
Coleman's success rate for stealing third is in the 90% range, which I find
hard to believe (though of course I'll believe you if you tell me it is so.
I don't have the figures handy.) If I thought Coleman had a 90% chance of
successfully stealing third, I wouldn't be that upset about him trying to
do so. But I don't think his chances are that good. I would really be 
surprised if his success rate is 90%, especially in a situation like this
(a 3-0 count, pressure on the pitcher to throw a strike, batter unlikely to
distract the catcher by swinging). The only factor in Vince's favor here is
surprise.
	I would also respectfully submit that talk of "intimidation" on
the basepaths is difficult to quantify, or is already factored into Coleman's
success rate. Again, I'm surprised to hear you talk in such terms.

 
> On the whole, I'd say that it was not a wise decision, but was probably less
> stupid than a sacrifice bunt in the fourth inning...

	They're both pretty stupid. It's a tossup (a throwup? :-))


>           David M. Tate          


Carl Brenner
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Deion "Coarse Grit Power" Sanders
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:13:56 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr15.200736.18173@athena.cs.uga.edu> steele@athena.cs.uga.edu (Frank Steele) writes:
>Braves note:
>
>Deion Sanders, who is following up a hot spring training with a sizzling
>April, has told Atlanta press that he wants to be a "full-time baseball

He says many things to the press, and especially when posturing for new
contract negoiations. Although, I would say he has earned his $2 million
signing bonus.  Either sport, the guy practices hard and delivers at
game time.

>player." Sanders is, of course, an All-Pro cornerback with the Atlanta
>Falcons during the off-season. Unfortunately for "Prime Time," he still
>has a year on his contract with the Falcons....

Hey, hold it!  You cannot tell me that Deion still doesn't like making those
INT's in his own team's endzone during an NFL playoff game.  From where I
was sitting in the Super Dome, he seemed to be enjoying it.  Falcon's had
better get the check book ready!  (Enough football - back to BB)

Speaking of money.  Deion made more money last year (will also this year)
than Steve Avery was he worth it?  Is he worth more this year? Think he
will be even WHEN he leaves to go chase the pigskin?

>By the way, Deion had ANOTHER triple today, and hit his first-ever home run
>against a left-hander (Chris Hammond) to lead off the Braves' 3-1 loss to
>the Reds. He now is near the NL lead in about 7 different categories, including
>SLG, BA, OBP, and a few others....I keep expecting the law of averages to take 
>over, but, so far, nothing.....

Dat be da fears dat I got. :-(  I want to see him get more chances on the
lefties.  I cannot remember if that was his first HR this year.  His last
HR last year was in fine Deion manner - a HR that helped win the game on
his last at bat before going to the Falcons.

later, mike

PS  Frank, lets hope that UGA and Tech have a little less onsided game
on the 28th when Tech comes to Foley Field. :-)
-- 
Mike Marler                        |
Internet: ccastmm@prism.gatech.edu |   "Dar's two sets of rules."
uucp: !gatech!prism!ccastmm	   |                          -- Paris Trout
Disclaimer: These views are not and should not be viewed as those of OIT.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mwplau@trillium.waterloo.edu (Michael Lau)
Subject: **** Blue Jays sweeps the Tigers ****
Keywords: Jays
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:15:58 GMT



   How about the Blue Jays!! They pull off another win by superb pitching
 staffs. They won 3-1 today against the Detroit Tigers and took the serie.
 Juan Guzman pitches 7 innings, gave up 3 hits, 1 run and strike out 10.
 Tom Henke pitches the eighth, Duane Ward pitches the ninth and got his
 second saves. 

   The Jays are 3-0 now and getting a good start. Sorry 'Sox' fan, just
 have to rub it in.

 ....now back to the normal 'Sox' commercials....
   

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ehlerswm@hackney.ecn.purdue.edu (William Mark Ehlers)
Subject: Re: Cardinal Club
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:52:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.000606.23220@morrow.stanford.edu> puerta@camis.stanford.edu writes:
>In article <101190008@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> msl@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mark Laventhal )  
>writes:
>> / hpcvlx:rec.sport.baseball / cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) /  5:23  
>pm  Apr  8, 1992 /
>> 
>> For completeness sake, this is to register the fact that I live in Oregon.
>> Mark Laventhal
>> 
>> 
>> >                     CARDINAL CLUB ROSTER
>> >                         Semi-Official
>> >
>> >Member			User Address			State
>> >
>> >Dan Carpenter		cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu		IL
>> >Steve Parvin		parvin@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu	IL
>> >Mark Laventhal		msl@hpcvlx.cu.hp.com		OR 
>> 							^^
>> >Jeff Wayman		wayman@lamar.ColoState.edu	CO
>> >John Petterchak		japg6581@uxa.uiuc.edu		IL
>> >Aaron Packman		aaron@juliet.caltech.edu	CA
>> >Bob Netherton		exurln@avata.NoSubdomain.NoDomain - TX
>> >Steve			ccford@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au	Austrailia
>> >Steve Hubbard 		sfh@po.CWRU.Edu			OH
>> >James Berry Austin	jcj6@ace4.sps.mot.com		TX
>> >
>> >Dave Vessell		dave@Bradley.Bradley.edu	IL
>> >Tom Durian		durian3660@iscsvax.uni.edu	
>> >
>
>One more to the caravan.
>   Angel Puerta          puerta@camis.stanford.edu      CA
>--
>Angel Puerta
>puerta@camis.stanford.edu

One more to the caravan
	Mark Ehlers	ehlerswm@hackney.ecn.purdue.edu		Indiana
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: MLB playoff format sucks? NOT! (was Re: Expos)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:54:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.052704.29851@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>The better team almost always wins a seven-game series in hockey,

How do you define "better team"?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Jody Reed bashing
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:21:38 GMT
Organization: A Slightly Warmer Place Than Dave Kirsch's Winter Wonderland

In <6APR199216570028@deimos.ucc.umass.edu> s5170748@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (THAN LEE) writes:

>I don't have any stats to back up this idea of mine, so if anybody does, 
>please let me know of them...
>As far as I can tell from watching many Red Sox games each year, Fenway does
>NOT boost Reed's stats!  Sure he gets a mess of doubles, but only a very
>few come from the Green Monster...the prototypical Reed double is a line drive
>hugging the third baseline...that's a double anywhere folks...also, he hit
>304 on the road last year, best on the Sox.  It just strikes me that Reed
>is one hitter who does not have his stats inflated by Fenway.  Please correct
>me with the appropriate PROOF if I am wrong.

Well, we can't prove these things, but we can supply evidence.

Jody's H/R splits (career)
AVG   OBP   SLG
.288  .366  .399 (HOME)  
.288  .369  .372 (ROAD)   

Basically, the difference is doubles.  He hits almost 50% more doubles in
Fenway, presumably mostly balls off the monster.

But you would also expect Reed to have a higher AVG and OBP at home even if
he played in an average park (let alone Fenway), and he doesn't.

I would think Fenway is probably helping him a little more than the data
suggests, just because we know what Fenway's effects are on 95% of hitters.
But you may very well be right that overall Jody Reed is not helped          
significantly by Fenway.

Of course, that knowledge isn't helpful in judging how good Reed is with
the Red Sox (the value of a run created is less in Fenway, regardless of
whether tha park helps that specific batter), but it might be a positive
thing to know for a team looking to acquire Reed.

Greg  
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: A couple of things...
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:48:17 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys

In article <1992Apr17.052205.5021@leland.Stanford.EDU> burger@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schlossberg) writes:
>
>1) A friend and me were talking and we were wondering if anyone had ever 
>gotten three outs batting/baserunning in one inning.  This would not include
>grouding into a DP.  My friend insisted that this would be impossible.  

It's not impossible.  A necessary condition is that the batting team get at
least 19 plate appearances in the inning; the record is 23.

*If* this has ever happened, it would have been by one of the following
players (modern era only):

	(5/21/52, first inning) Billy Cox, Duke Snider.
	(8/8/54, eighth inning) Gil Hodges.
	(9/20/72, second inning) Dusty Baker
	(8/3/89, first inning) Mariano Duncan, Luis Quinones
	(7/4/48, seventh inning) Ted Williams, John Lipon, George Kell.

Of these, I think only the last name on each line is a candidate, since 
they (almost certainly) made the last outs.  I've deleted the names of 
players known to have reached base all three times in those innings.

I don't think it has ever happened.

>I think
>that a team could do it if it scored a bunch of runs.  In a related question,
>what's the most runs ever scored in one inning? (This isn't a trivia question.
>I don't know the answer)

Since 1900, the AL record is 17 (*not* in the one AL game listed above!), and
the NL record is 15 (in the first game listed above).

The individual record is 3, by Sammy White in the last game on the list.



-- 
          David M. Tate            |"The man who hath no music in himself
     dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu       | Nor is not moved by concord of sweet sound
  A poem should be dumb, / As old  | Is fit for treason, stratagems, and spoils
 medallions to the thumb.-MacLeish | 	Shakespeare, "Merchant of Venice", A.V
From: cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter)
Subject: Cardinal Club
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:23:51 GMT



                     CARDINAL CLUB ROSTER
                         Semi-Official

Member			User Address			State

Dan Carpenter		cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu		IL
Steve Parvin		parvin@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu	IL
Mark Laventhal		msl@hpcvlx.cu.hp.com
Jeff Wayman		wayman@lamar.ColoState.edu	CO
John Petterchak		japg6581@uxa.uiuc.edu		IL
Aaron Packman		aaron@juliet.caltech.edu	CA
Bob Netherton		exurln@avata.NoSubdomain.NoDomain - TX
Steve			ccford@uqvax.cc.uq.oz.au	Austrailia
Steve Hubbard 		sfh@po.CWRU.Edu			OH
James Berry Austin	jcj6@ace4.sps.mot.com		TX

Dave Vessell		dave@Bradley.Bradley.edu	IL
Tom Durian		durian3660@iscsvax.uni.edu	




  If  YOU want to be on this list, submit yourself to the Cardinal Fan
Caravan.

No Charge, No Deposit, No Return.

Dan


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Reds Wire-to-Wire -- NOT! (was: Wall's '92 Predictions)
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:43:47 GMT

In article <14930@optima.cs.arizona.edu>
 dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal) writes:
>In article <167C1F43A.CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>
 CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>>In article <3GDHBCH8@cc.swarthmore.edu>
>>wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:
>> 
>>NOT! Padres 4, Reds 3, Opening Day 1992
>> 
>>Another Trivia Question: Which team, as I write, is in undisputed *LAST*
>>place in the NL West? :-)

>I think you were the guy who made fun of Rob Dibble too.
> Well, would you rather have Pena or Dibble?

>As I remember, the Reds swept the A's when they were in the Series last, 
>whereas the Braves choked.

The Braves *choked*?  Are you out of your mind?  The Braves played tough
baseball all the way through.  

Yes, the Twins won, and the Braves did not.         

Perhaps what you are trying to say is, "The Braves *lost*."

Teams win and lose.  

FANS choke.

>By the way, this response is not to your joke above, it is to the previous
>post, which I did not get a chance to respond to earlier.

And which, no doubt, all of us remember...

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:30:03 -0400 
From: Michael Scott Neiberg <mn1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
	<1992Apr12.223209.28823@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>

So according to the new (and IMHO lousy) rule on no-nos a home team
pitcher can only get a no-no if he loses, right?  SOunds pretty dumb to
me.  The rule also erases Haddix' great feat in Milwaukee.  Pretty lame 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball