HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:22:18 EST
From:         Jackie Guarente-Rider Computer Serv x4278 H-239
              <AAJR@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      A new commer's BIO

The following is my "bio".  I'm a new comer to the list.

NAME: Jackie Guarente-Rider

AGE: 31

OCCUPATION: Programmer at Catonsville Community College in Baltimore,
Maryland, USA

BOOK I TELL OTHERS TO READ: Codependent Nomore (something like that)

HOBBIES: Are you kidding?  I have no life, I got a kid!

HEARING STATUS: Hearing.

COMMUNICATION STRATEGY: Anticipate learning American Sign Language in
the spring.

PERSONAL HEROES: My sister.  Mr. Rider, my husband.  But he's more like
my Knight in shinning armor.

WHY DID I SIGN ON DEAF-L:  I am considering making a career change to
Interpreting for the Deaf in an educational setting using my programmingy
knowledge.  This list may be a good introductory avenue to learn
about Deaf culture, concerns, etiquette, etc. prior to taking my
classes.  If I find Interpreting is not for me, at least I will know ASL
and be a little wiser.  Ninty percent of the time I will be a listener
on this list.

P.S.  When I refer to my son as "kid", it is a term of endearment.
He really is cool!

Sincerely, Jackie Guarente-Rider

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Jackie Guarente-Rider, Programmer |          BITNET    AAJR000@CATCC |
| Computer Services                 |          Telephone  410-455-4278 |
| Catonsville Community College     |          Bldg. H    Room 239 A   |
| 800 S Rolling Road                |"Don't mess with my money, my men,|
| Baltimore, MD  21228              | or my food."      JG-R           |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:18:40 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      personal attack

Ref:  Marvin's posting of Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:44:08 -0600

That's OK, Marvin. No hard feelings, mate!

Bosco.

Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:56:43 EST
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Cochlear Implant Musings.
              19 Nov 92 23:11:48 -0400. <9211200504.AA01714@Athena.MIT.EDU>

I do not remember who first made the analogy of CI to Nazism, but I believe
it deserves a lot more sensitivity than it was given. I am referring to the
Holocuast, not the implants. Comparing the implant to a tragedy so
large in scale as the Holocaust (in which over 6 million were systematically
exterminated), is a gross MIS-analogy.

Adam Skwersky
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:40:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      HELP!

        help help help!!!!!

        Roy, I've been cut-off from deaf-l....getting NO mail!
        Pls, get me back on the mailing list...Thanx in advance.

                                Steven Conlee
                                CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 07:23:49 EST
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From:         MAARS015--SIVM <MAARS015@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc

From: MAARS015--SIVM

Yes, indeed, that is true.  I agree with you one hundred percent.

Glenn
Another born-deaf Reader

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:Glenn Juchno 202 357-4522(TTY),786-3565(FAX),357-1886(Voice) :
:NMAA/NPG Library                      AA/PG RM. 331, MRC 215 :
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:57:34 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      deaf wish

Lew Golan says:-
>     No matter how you rationalize it, you are saying that your feelings
>and your language are more important than the best interests of your future
>children -- who, if they are born deaf (as you desire), will face a
>lifetime of struggle, frustration, deprivation, discrimination, isolation,
>underachievement and other disadvantages which they would not encounter if
>they were born hearing.
>     Life is tough enough without the added burden of deafness.
>     I wouldn't wish that on anyone -- least of all my own children.

Jewish children face a lifetime of struggle, frustration, deprivation,
discrimination, isolation, underachievement and other disadvantages
which they would not encounter if they grew up Christian or Muslim
(depending on the country).

Should Jews, therefore, not want Jewish children?
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Date:         Sun, 22 Nov 1992 13:22:05 -0500
From:         "Mark J. Dessert" <11MDESSERT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      A G Bell

One note about Alexander Graham Bell.  He was a Eugenicist.  He was
active in breeding sheep to improve the strain.  He also applied the
science of Eugenics to Human society.  It is recorded in historical
documents that among other racial and ethnic groups, Bell felt it would
benefit American society if the United States government passed laws
forbidding the immigration of Italian, Irish, Hispanic and other ethnic
and racial classes into this country.  The next step was to make it
illegal for these people already living in the U.S. to reproduce
themselves.  Eventually, the U.S. population would be predominantly
Anglo-Saxon.
        Like it or not, Bell also applied this theory to Deaf people he
loved so much.  He was also successful.  Some states passed laws
requiring children born to deaf parents be sterilized at birth as a
direct result of his lobbying.  Therein lies the comparison to Adolf
Hitler.
        For all the love Bell professed to have for Deaf people, one
must ask why, is someone mentioned her deafness to Bell's wife; she
responded quite strongly:  "I am not *deaf*, I can speak!
        The source of the above information is "When the Mind Hears," by
Harlan Lane.  It has been a while since I read the book and I do not
have a copy with me.  If you find me in error please do not hesitate to
correct me.  Also, please remember that the above are neither the
opinions nor the feelings of Mr. Lane, but historical facts taken from
existing documents in library archives.  The references are listed in
the book.

                               Mark Dessert

===============================================================================

         With each passing day I learn the extent of my ignorance.

===============================================================================
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From: acs_belscamp@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: 60 mins story
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:41:25 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <01GR9BL0I7KW8WX3DF@ITHACA.BITNET>, ALOOES1@ITHACA.BITNET writes:
> Jill,
>       I'm not deaf, or hard of hearing, but if I were and I had the chance to
> hear anything at all, I think I would jump at the chance. If, like you say, a
> person was given the chance to hear I'm sure it wouldn't just filter in
> "annoying sounds" I would think all sounds of the appropriate frequency would
> be heard, which may or may not include the birds singing or rain falling on a
> metal roof, you know, the things we all seem to take for granted.
>     But I'm just one person, with one opinion and I do respect yours, just
> thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.
> 
> -Andrea
 Well I guess maybe I'd feel that way also except that I get these awful 
 headaches and I also have tinnitus (sp?) or ringing in my ears and I spend
 many nights in bed wishing that the ringing would just go away.  I'm not
 sure the ringing and the headaches are related.  I have no idea.  Annoying
 noises just sort of make the headaches worse and when it's quiet and I hear
 nothing but the ringing, it tendsto also worsen the headaches.  I guess I 
 just can't win. :)  I think I read somewhere that some deaf/HoH people also
 have tinnitus but I have no idea what the percentages are. 

Jill
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:09:58 EST
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: cochlear implants
              10 Nov 92 22:18:28 -0400. <9211110325.AA10085@Athena.MIT.EDU>

'EGALE' writes:

"I don't mean to pick on Lane but I totally agree with the statement that
questions if Lane stoped to think about how much money he made from his
books about Deafness.  The ironic thing is he has poor signing skills and
is making more money than any other researcher in this field.  Just so
happens that he is very slick with words and can get the message across in
a way that people want to get it."


Either way, he is a hard worker. Have you ever tried doing as much research
as he has done? I think he deserves what he earns.


Adam Skwersky
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:15:16 CST
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From:         U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject:      Re: Question from a hearie...

just a tiny quibble with Omer Zak's response. He mentions that
the person who hears should speak a little more slowly and open
their mouth a little wider. Most hearies I know take that as a
chance to MOUTH each word soooooooooooo  slowly that I feel like
I'm falling into their mouth.  Not a nice sensation at all.

A better way to put it would be that both communicators should
speak at a relaxed pace and enunciate clearly, but should not
exaggerate their normal way of speaking.

Nice posting Omer....  now I don't have to answer his post...
;>

My new SIG from ETSU  =    lairdk @ etsu     if you're
internet only, add  .bitnet to the end of the address.
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 71302.3005@compuserve.com
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:27:43 -0600
From:         /PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc

 <"CGJC-5508-3500/36"*/PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com>

Sorry, Adam, but the family IS significant in how well a CI works for a child
or adult.  This is assuming that the physiology is appropriate.  The signifi-
cance of the family comes into play after surgery.  Just implanting the device
and turning on a processor is nothing.  There are many long hours of training
to endure afterwards and it's a very rare child or adult who would manage
without support and encouragement from those around him or her.
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:54:22 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11ASONES@GALLUA1
From:         11ASONES@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      600 minutes??????

I have a question for all of you out in Deaf-L... How does everyone
feel about implanting a three year old or four year old child whose
brain and ears are still growing? I wonder what the long term, effects
on the brain, cochlea etc. are??
The other thing that concerns me is this implant looks like the old
hearing aids I wore when I was very young. The box on my tummy that was
forever in my way. I wonder how the children of the implants run
around playing sports without something pelting at their tummies? Will
another kid pull that wire out of the implanted child resulting in the kid
going in for major surgery again? Suppose this child grows up and
wants to make love with someone, will this box forever be in his or
her way?
                         Allison from Gallaudet
                     (I won't use our little joke about Gally since I've
                         offended some people on the list)
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:08:33 -0500
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: gallaudet students

Hey, folks.  How about removing this apparently endless interchange about
Gally nodes to private correspondance.  The rest of us, in the country and
world at large, are really not terribly concerned.

Thanks.

Mimi
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:21:27 EDT
From:         EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: gallaudet students
              19 Nov 1992 21:01:07 EST from <askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>

Michelle-

Adam is right.  I forgot that Gallaudet has a few different nodes.

Here are some that I am aware of:

Gallua

Gallux

Galluj

Gallut


Elaine
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Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:57:50 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      [CXLNVD%RITVAX.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu: Re: Re:60 Minutes]

    cxlnvd@ritvax.bitnet says:
    Yes, it's akin to the Christian Scientists' belief that praying can
    cure all medical illnesses.  Who are we to say they are wrong.

A few years ago, a couple of Christian Scientists had a son with a
severe illness (I believe it was a blocked colon).  Following their
beliefs, they refused to take him to a doctor, despite his severe
pain.  They called in a Christian Science healer, and prayed for the
boy's recovery.  The prayers were unsuccessful.  The parents were
arrested, tried, and found guilty of manslaughter.  (The case is
_Massachusetts vs. Twitchell;_ I believe this trial was in 1989 or
1990.)

Do you think the jury should have let them go free?

    If the parents say "no" -- then they are told that without their kid
    getting fillings, the kid could lose those teeth, lose space resulting
    in crooked teeth, abscesses (pain, etc.) and so forth, but I'm not the
    one who decides for the parents!

But sometimes you *are* the one who decides for the parents.  If,
in the course of your work, you suspect that one of your child patients
is being abused or neglected, you are legally *required* to report it
to the state.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:28:06 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Question from a hearie...

Ref:  Omer's posting of Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:25:39 +0200

>4. Sometimes the deaf person lipreading ability is adequate for the
>circumstances, and in that case the hearie needs only to speak a bit
>slower and open his lips somewhat wider.
>                                           --- Omer

Usually it's only necessary to tell the hearing person:
"Speak normally and clearly, and *if you tend to speak fast*, slow
down." I hate it when people slow down in a contrived fashion and
grossly exaggerate their lip movements. It's like talking to
an asphyxiating trout. :-)

Usually it's more important to emphasize facial expression and body language
if the person normally appears to be in an invisible straitjacket.
All the lip movement in the world makes no difference if the rest
of the person's face (and body) generates no expression whatsoever.


Bosco.

Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:21:11 -0700
From:         MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: gallaudet students

can you show me an example?

thanks
michelle
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: Question from a hearie...
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:45:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.074227.22289@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> tspindle@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (tom spindler) writes:
>How do people usually communicate with hearies when there isn't a tty or
>TDD or interpreter around? Lots of pen and paper? Or doesn't it come up
>that much?

Lots of pen and paper, of course. (Trees cringe everytime I walk by them. :-)
Also, whiteboards (we have a lot of them at work, luckily) and ah, yes,
computers. I run a BBS at home to help myself cultivate friendships with
"hearies". (As a matter of fact, I met my current boyfriend on my BBS last
year. Come to think of it, I had met most of my ex-boyfriends on various
computer systems.)

>(Sorry if the question is a faux pas.)

No need to apologize...I don't mind if questions are asked out of
curiosity (or don't fall into the "incredibly dumb questions" category).

--
Angeli "Ms. Pepper" Wahlstedt (pepper@shell.portal.com)

"If nobody else was violent, I could conquer the whole stupid planet with
just a butter knife." - Dogbert
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Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:26:33 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      deaf wish

One DEAF-L correspondent (Marvin Miller?) said that Deaf parents tend
to push their hearing children part-way out of the Deaf community when
the children grow up.  How true is that?  Does it *have* to be like
this?  What, if anything, are Deaf people and CODAs doing to improve
their cultural relationships?
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:18:00 EST
From:         xxuucp@ATT.ATT.COM
Subject:      UUCP Mail

UUCP request att!D.att9acaf0c to homxa!D.att9acaf0c
failed on system 'homxa'.
Reason for failure:
        remote system can't create temp file
        remote file system is low on free space
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From: pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: vibes
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 06:31:50 GMT

In article <9211211020.AA24256@silver.lcs.mit.edu> Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU> writes:
>If I suddenly became deaf, one of the first things I'd do is go to a
>punk-rock club with very loud music, and meditate upon the experience
>of *feeling* loud music without *hearing* it ... i.e., weird out my
>whole sensory-processing intuitions.
>
>A mindf--k is a terrible thing to waste.

Hahaha...yes, I do *love* LOUD music. And I'm glad that you understand that
music has more dimensions to it besides the hearing part. I'm capable of
hearing music through headphones, but because my skin is sorta more "advanced"
than my ears, I find the "feeling" to be more satisfying than the "listening".


--
Angeli "Ms. Pepper" Wahlstedt (pepper@shell.portal.com)

"If nobody else was violent, I could conquer the whole stupid planet with
just a butter knife." - Dogbert
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:53:09 EST
From:         "Stephen J. Kotchen" <CASK@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Hey Egale! What is your point?

  I look at that cover and I don't think there is anything wrong with
it. What is (MOB)?

--Stephen Kotchen

> Harlane Lane...Smart guy if he can speak ASL.  Has anyone noticed that on
> the jacket cover of his new book? (MOB)
>
> Speak ASL...ummm...Is it possible?  I think not.
From: acs_belscamp@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: re: 60 mins story
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:45:46 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

In article <1992Nov11.190550.12897@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, fak9957@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Frank Kruppenbacher) writes:
> As the hearing half of a deaf/hearing marriage here are my thoughts on the 
> "60 Minutes" piece called "Caitlin's Story."
> 
> 1.  The parents made the right choice for their [at the time of the implant
>     surgery] 2 month old, then recently deafened, child.  The parents were
>     in the best position to make that decision.  The promise by the implant
>     specialists and the surgeon was that Caitlin would only be able to hear
>     "environmental sounds" at best.  I think that if the surgery was not a
>     success, the parents were ready and willing to pursue other avenues
>     which would have included lipreading and sign language.
  What I don't understand is why anyone would care to hear "environmental
  sounds."  I am a hearing person and I'm probably guilty of taking it for
  granted.  I'm sitting here in our computer lab at school and there's a 
  printer in here and it makes the most annoying noise in the world, or one
  of them.  If what you mean by environmental sounds are things like traffic,
  horns, sirens, printers, computer terminals then I would personally not 
  care to hear those things.  Many of the things I've just mentioned hurt 
  my ears and I just don't like them - they are way too loud.  The sound of 
  a vacuum cleaner has just crawling up the walls.  As with anything, you 
  have to take the good with the bad.  I guess I'm just trying to say that 
  if I could only hear noises such as that and I still couldn't hear people 
  talking I'd prefer not to hear at all.   

  Maybe I'm just confused as to what's meant by "environmental sounds" if so,
  please clarify.

Jill


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