HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie (Lucifuge)
Subject: Re: EVIL and "dualism"
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:56:22 GMT

In <1992Oct7.185719.27030@shearson.com> scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis) writes:

>o.k. lets look at the catholic religion .. to which i was born into...

>it appears to me that yes Satan was at the left hand of god but thought him equal to god ..
>so god cast satan down to the abyss to where he built his own house .. pandamonium ...

Only if you read an awful lot of Milton.

>if god is the what we refer to as THE LIGHT then dont we call SATAN the DARK lord .... 
>hmm seems opposite to me .. 

What you're saying is Satan=DarkGod, God=Light God? This is Manichaeism (a
heresy btw) and not Catholicism. 

>and dont u get an opposite by stunting or twisting as u say .. or how about perverting that which was true ... to suit his own needs .... 

No. You get a twisted version. An opposite would imply that evil is some
sort of 'Negative Good' whereas Catholicism teaches that it has no power
of itself...it is merely the absence of good. The analogy is that of
light and darkness....darkness is void..it is merely the absence of
light (good). 

>but now we are getting into hair splitting .... 

About what? The Nature of good and evil? The details of Catholic
Theology?

>and i will concede to the fact that u can have one without the other .. but sooner or later the OTHER "choice" will be discovered and utilized ....

Perhaps...

Ollie/Lucifuge...

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lord is my Shepherd..........................but I'm not a Sheep
--------------------------ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie-----------------------
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Liber al vegis
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:51:47 GMT
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <1992Oct09.214613.23746@rose.com> mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka) 
writes:

>   X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^--oi veh.
>   I've heard of this before....how can i gain access to the files at slopoke
>   thue Usenet?

you can't.

however:

nslookup rose.com...

Server:  localhost
Address:  127.0.0.1

Name:    rose.com
Address:  142.77.253.10

rose.com is on the internet, or at least one machine is (probably the afore-
mentioned gateway, definitely the machine you see directly above). if you
have shell access to this particular machine, you can ftp files from
slppoke.

if you don't know what I'm talking about, ask someone at your site.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Mysticism vs. Magic <was: Re: Toe dipping>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:45:28 GMT

grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:

>  (This is to my mind the chief differentiation between magic 
>and mysticism; the mystic seeks to leave the world, the magician to
>work effectively within it.)

This is a very common misconception.  This misconception was either created or
promulgated by the Roman Catholic Magisterium to discourage lay people from 
seeking mystical experience.  The mystics, on the other hand, always said that
mystical experience was available to any person of faith who sought it.

After all, I don't think too many people would accuse modern Quakers of trying
to leave the world--the foundation of Quaker political activism is explicitly
mysticism.

In short, this is a myth created by the *enemies* of mysticism.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Facing faces
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:38:53 GMT
Organization: Center for Process Analytical Chemistry, UW
Organaization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <Bvv3vE.Ax9@apollo.hp.com> carlton@apollo.hp.com (Carl Hommel) 
writes:

>   [much astute stuff omitted]

>   Long term couples tend to see a mental image of their partner, rather 
>   than their actual physical body.  

in fact, everyone that you relate to. we don't deal with people; we deal
with the mental images we have of them. indeed, we don't deal with the
world, we deal with our mental picture of it. 

we don't deal with ourselves, mostly (at least not without training), we
deal with our mental pictures of ourselves. what is I?

a symbol used to represent the individual using it.

josh
From: mdouglas@cad067.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Maria Douglas ~)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: sources of ghosts
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:45:51 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp.


-- 
Karl Anderson writes:

	I can give one that wouldn't be very useful here in the U.S.:
	my friend lived with a family in Nepal for a time.  He likes to
	whistle, but would be gravely discouraged by the family against
	whistling in the house, because this was known to attract spirits.

	k

Actually, my mother is from Oklahoma, and she says that it's a superstition
in the "Ozarks" (sp?) as well.
--
Maria E. Douglas	(408) 765-4728		    
Intel Corporation	mdouglas@cadev6.intel.com  

"Boy, I don't know what that thar Space Mead is,
	but ahhhhl drink it!"

		Jake Barlow,
		Bounty Hunter and Cthulhoid Investigator

Standard disclaimer applies...
Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center
Date: Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992 14:10:48 CET
From: <K3006E8@ALIJKU11.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Crowley file list needed

HIgh,

           ME TOO||||


               Peace, Love & Prosperity

                             Paul.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: EVIL! (& Ronald McDonald)
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:05:52 +0000

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes..

>My theory is that of a population with no major psychological
>problems, those who repress their dark side are more apt to totally
>lose it and walk into a crowded McDonalds with a machine gun and open
>fire.

But is this an evil act, evolution in action, or simply an act of
poetry?

There is something very appealing abot the whole concept: McDonalds
has _just_ opened here.

"Ronald McDonald is a child molester" as they say :-)
From: ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (the troglodyte killer)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: backgrounding
Date: 15 Oct 1992 18:53:20 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


>Subject: Re: backgrounding
 
>In article <15OCT199212265080@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu>
>ballms@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (BALLMS) writes:
>
>>   I read the FAQ file, and I think I have a good idea of what it is
>>   but I would like other opinions of the term 'backgrounding', when
>>   building your pyramid of concentration effect.. techniques for this?
>>   thx.. MB.
>
>if you don't have any idea how to do this, I'd recommend doing some dhyana
>yoga for a while (at least until you can reliably attain dharana) before
>trying the techniques outlined in the FAQ. crowley's '8 Lectures On Yoga'
>is a good elementary book describing how to do this.
 
     Excuse me, but Crowley isn't exactly the PUREST of sources, 
if you know what I mean?  The guy was bad news spelled three 
ways..  His abuses of knowledge were destructive and petty.
 
     I know, I know I'm opening myself up to flames, but let's 
try to keep them in Email?
 
     I'd just like to encourage newcomers to research this guy's 
personal history before studying his writings.  This "hero 
worship" thing people have built around this person is pretty 
scary, all thing considered.
 
                                                      -- TTK
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: NEED HELP.
Organization: Institue for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:05:20 GMT


In article <92278.161556L13BC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <L13BC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>     Hi people,  I'v studied occult a while, back, then I stopped, since 
>    some ooh, very bad things happened. [...]
>   I wen't to this place (it's in BROOKLYN), on the presumption that there 
>   would be vampires there, I don't have time to explain it all now, [...]
>                                       I don't know if that place is still
>  an "active" sight, I haven't passed by it in around 2 years, but everytime 
>  I do I feel something is watching me, always watching.

grow up, go away.

josh


Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes)
Subject: Re: Tetragrammaton
Organization: Utopium Enterprizes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:47:00 GMT

Thank you, Josh and B'ranArthur, for your help... it's given me some insight
into the conditions under which the formula was formulated. So, apparently,
if we attribute temperature rather than humidity to sex, and claim that Fire
and Water are active (which makes sense, given that Fire appears more active
to our eyes than Air, and Water more so than Earth), then basically we would
have a marriage of opposites; Fire, the element of heat and dryness, is united
with Water, the element of coldness and moisture, and so forth. I assume this
is significant for reasons I have not the experience or knowledge to fathom
right now.

As far as qaballah is concerned, I am having a difficult time understanding
its basic principles, despite Crowley's discussion of the symbology of the
Sepiroth in Chapter 0 of *Magick in Theory and Practise*. I only want further
insight, not to be spoonfed (especially as noone besides myself knows what 
information I need to know in order to use it...), and I can only hope that
further research can shed this insight.

I wish to reemphasize that I am only asking about the attributes of the 
Elements, and therefore of the Tetragrammaton, so that I may follow Crowley
in his line of reasoning. I do not care to use any formula straightforward
unless it seems to work well for me given the conditions at the moment, so
I do not consider myself in danger of dogmatism. However, I do not want to
come across a statement later on in the text and be puzzled because he and I
have different assumptions.

Thanks again!
Ai
-- 
Utopium Enterprizes - mitchell@seas.smu.edu
"Do not mistake my sympathy for understanding; do not accept my understanding
 as sympathy." -- St. Thomas Laine the Abbreviated
From: jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: MISSING-PERSON LOCATOR
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:09:16 GMT
Organization: Boston University Information Technology Boston, MA USA
In-reply-to: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu's message of 14 Oct 92 00:52:42 GMT

Photographs will not work.  "Specimen" must be some physical part of the missing individual in relatively new to good condition.  i.e. blood must still be wet as must any other bodily fluid.  Hair is best choice considering its long storage life and ready availability.  However, it is a weak link to a person's vital essence and so an inferior method.
Clothing or cherished personal belongings are not likely work unless held or concentrated upon by said individual within last lunar year.  And even then, provide the weakest link yet.
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: De-linking others.
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:25:49 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
: 
: > post sometime.  The short form was that I took my dried wedding bouquet,
: > soaked it in rum and torched it.  After it burned down, I took the ashes
: > and rum out to the nearest crossroads (it happened to be a day before the
: > full moon, not as symbolic as the dark moon would have been but cool enough)
: > and poured it out on the street.  Then I looked up at the moon and thought
: > about those nine years and had some great insights into the bigger picture
: > of what had happened.  It was one of the most effective and helpful rituals
: 
: Sounds like a nice piece of work.
: 
: This is one of those general forms of 'practical magick' that seems to 
: work best-- using ritual to focus attention on your self-experience, to 
: 'burn karma', borrowing a phrase.

Yep. This is basically confronting, analyzing and then letting go. Such
techniques are great for letting go of something in the past which cannot
be changed. Then you can do the more important magick - getting on with
the rest of your life.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson)
Subject: Re: Blasphemy
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 00:09:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.120141.1@opie.bgsu.edu> bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu writes:
>I've seen a lot of posts lately that say 'don't trifle with the n-con' and
>such.  I think I am going to go find myself a copy so I can trifle with the
>fucking thing...

sucker.

>--Hum




Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta)
Subject: Re: Blasphemy
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-1321]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:37:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct17.000917.16920@reed.edu> kanderso@reed.edu (Karl Anderson) writes:
>In article <1992Oct16.120141.1@opie.bgsu.edu> bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu writes:
>>I've seen a lot of posts lately that say 'don't trifle with the n-con' and
>>such.  I think I am going to go find myself a copy so I can trifle with the
>>fucking thing...
>
>sucker.
>
>>--Hum
>
Have fun, but it'll be us who have to clean up the shit you cause.  Do you
really think this group would so generally warn you off it if it _wasn't_
dangerous.  Who knows maybe you'll only hurt/kill/torture yourself, but you
might manage to fuck up so royally as to take others with you.  Again have
fun, but I'll tear you apart if you happen to hurt anyone I care about.

		From the darker side of me,
			   -Enki


--
From: ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Hinting Wizard Update
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:16:41 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Ran into the Wizard again. This time he visited my abode
and spoke nothing but occult for a straight twenty-four
hours. On the way to my house, he performed a demonstration/
experiment that I initially refused to participate in
due to the apparent foolheartiness of its requirements.

The demonstration had very positive results, but I can not
discuss it with you beause what we were investigating was
something really, really, really, really messed up.

Sadly, it turns out that the Wizard is involved in a local
"lodge," which is causing him a significant amount of grief.
He believes that this lodge has members everywhere who can hear
what he says. These people gave him drugs as part of an
initiation which had the effect of low grade acid.

I have learned that while the Wizard has been involved with
this group for over a year, he does not know the identity
or the face of the lodge's leader. I advised him that any lodge
whose leader remains anonymous to its own initiates can not
possibly be honorable.

There is no way to know the worthiness or unworthiness of a cult
you're thinking of joining, if you are not permitted to look into
the eyes of the ringleader.

My advice to him was that he needs no teacher, since he already
knows much more than these negative individuals. Any comments
on cults/lodges/sects/schizms that use initiation to fuck with
people's minds, play power games, and use unwitting doses without
telling the initiate what he is taking?

The Church of the SubGenius used to distribute " 'Bob*s' Pills "
to initiates, which had to be ingested on faith alone. The Book
of the SubGenius stated that the pills contained in part "Frop,"
short for Habifropzipulaps, which they say is "not a drug," but
also, they say, causes an effect from which "you never come down."

These pills, I theorize, are only vitamins or placebos. The "Liquid
Slack" they drink at devivals is only Thunderbird wine, I have learned.

BTW, the Wizard is not officially involved with the People of "Bob."
He is caught up in some stupid arrogant corruption of Masonry.
Xref: sparky alt.magick:5254 alt.horror:4468
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Mysticism vs. Magic <was: Re: Toe dipping>
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:42:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Bw8Hrv.6E6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:
>
>>  (This is to my mind the chief differentiation between magic 
>>and mysticism; the mystic seeks to leave the world, the magician to
>>work effectively within it.)
>
>This is a very common misconception.  This misconception was either created or
>promulgated by the Roman Catholic Magisterium to discourage lay people from 
>seeking mystical experience.  The mystics, on the other hand, always said that
>mystical experience was available to any person of faith who sought it.
>
>After all, I don't think too many people would accuse modern Quakers of trying
>to leave the world--the foundation of Quaker political activism is explicitly
>mysticism.
>
>In short, this is a myth created by the *enemies* of mysticism.
>
>
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur
>

The interesting thing here is that I didn't have Christian mysticism
in mind at all when I tossed out the definition above -- I don't have
more than a very shallow background in Catholicism, and only a very
slightly better one in Orthodox spirituality.  I was thinking, for the
most part, of Oriental systems, in which the difference I've described
is spelled out explicitly.

It seems possible that we're working with different definitions of the 
word "mysticism"...

(Please note:  this is NOT intended to start some huge and useless
thread arguing over the detailed definition of mysticism!  I've 
killfiled too many threads of that sort to want to start another...)

I simply meant to suggest that there are, in a fair number of 
cultures, distinctions between traditions that seek to bring "power"
(defined any way you like) from the unmanifest part of existence
(ditto) into the manifest, which I call "magical" traditions, and
others which seek to bring consciousness (ditto) from the manifest
into the unmanifest, which I call "mystical".  Yes, there are others
which seek to do both, and still others which can't be described in
these terms at all.

More satisfactory?

-- John Michael Greer
   grimoire@u.washington.edu
From: Ken.Cusick@f29.n112.z1.fidonet.org (Ken Cusick)
Sender: FredGate@iphase.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Add
Date: 11 Oct 92 04:58:00 EST


 * SLMR 2.1 * 
 * Origin: The "Moral Majority" is neither... (1:112/29)

Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.slack
From: jasonp@budgie.prime.com (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: Hinting Wizard Update
Followup-To: alt.slack
Organization: Prime Computer
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:52:37 GMT

(Note followup, or Kill Bob...)
In article <92278.031641ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
> The Church of the SubGenius used to distribute " 'Bob*s' Pills "
> to initiates, which had to be ingested on faith alone. The Book
> of the SubGenius stated that the pills contained in part "Frop,"
> short for Habifropzipulaps, which they say is "not a drug," but
> also, they say, causes an effect from which "you never come down."
> 
> These pills, I theorize, are only vitamins or placebos. The "Liquid
> Slack" they drink at devivals is only Thunderbird wine, I have learned.

EIIIEEYY!!!! These Pills are the Essence of Bob Incarnate. Haven't you 
ever heard of the Mir'cle of Transubstanc-ee-ay-shun, Boy? By the 
ALMIGHTY PIPE OF BOB! How can ya be so IGNORANT, Boy! EACH TIME YOU 
TAKE A PILL IN THE NAME OF BOB, YOU ARE EATING BOB. That's
right, and he TASTES BAD! REAL BAD! EACH TIME you, YES, even you,
PINK BOY, take even a SIP OF LIQUID SLACK IN THE NAME OF BOB, *YOU*
are BROUGHT UP, YEA UP, AND ART DRINKING THE SWEAT OF BOB! AEEEIE,
YES! BOB Sweats SLACK! AND I WON'T EVEN COMMENT ABOUT HIS OTHER
BODILY ExCREaTIONS, EXCEPT TO SAY MAY THEY RAIN DOWN ON ALL
THE PEOPLES ON X-DAY, AND COVER THEM WITH A NICE GLOSSY
COATING, AND THAT THOSE WHO CAN STAND THERE WITHOUT WIPING
THEMSELVES OFF BE THEY FIRST REMOVED BY THE STARK FIST!!! AEEEEEI. 

> BTW, the Wizard is not officially involved with the People of "Bob."
> He is caught up in some stupid arrogant corruption of Masonry.

HA! Shows you how much you know...BOB *IS* STUPID ARROGANT CORRUPT
MASONRY! Send me $19.31*, and I'll 
MAKESOMETHINGUP^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H tell you how...

Speaking, as I am, Slackishly, did anybody Catch the subDudes
on Letterman Last night? They're lyrics were pretty Pinkish,
but the music was okay. And that GUY playing the TAMBAREEN,
and singing the 'oo-oo' parts was TOTALLY SLACK FILLED...
HE SAT THROUGH THE WHOLE SONG, AND LOOKED SO HAPPY WITH
HIMSELF AT THE END, AND WAS WHAPPING his instrument with 
what looked like a PIPE! AEEI! I BELIEVE that while
the rest of the band may have been ConDupes, THIS MAN
WAS FILLED WITH THE ONE, TRUE SLACK...which goes
to show you that Bob IS EVERYWHERE...EVEN ON LETTERMAN!
--
Rev. Dr. Pope Jason R. Pascuccicat, KSC, etc.
jasonp@primerd.prime.com

"Do what keeps thou from Wilting Shall be the Loophole in the Law..."

*Plus $0.69 for shipping and handling...OR KILL ME.
From: aph016@cch.coventry.ac.uk (ozzy)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Toe Dipping
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:58:06 GMT
Organization: none

In article <1992Oct5.211825.27000@primerd.prime.com> jasonp@scat4.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.172016.16137@spider.co.uk>, malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell) writes:

[stuff about Chakras deleted]


>Also, a number of Yogic systems use meditation on the Third Eye. (For 
>example, turning your eyes crosswise to 'look' at your third eye.) I 
>believe these techniques tend to produce the 'powers' (damnit, I can't 
>recall any of the words for it) which manifest in the Yogis. (No 
>comments about the Ranger, Booboo.)
>
>--

I remember reading in a fairly recent book (the name of which eludes me right
now) in which it is stated that turning your eyes up and in , to the third eye
is supposed to induce alpha-consciousness. If anyone can back this up or 
discredit it, I'd be most interested in hearing from them over the net.

>Jason "I can't resist being called erudite" R. Pascuccicat
>jasonp@primerd.prime.com

ozzy

-- 
aph016@uk.ac.cov.cch
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magickal significance of names written in blood
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:26:21 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
>Blood is the life force. By signing something in blood, you are signing your
>life over to Satan, or marshalling (sp?) your life-power to use in casting a
>curse.
>
  Can you please explain what it means to "marshall" my life power in casting
a curse.  I don't quite understand this terminology.

>I hope you aren't learning your magical techniques from Slayer :-)
>

Don't worry.  It's just a somewhat morbid fascination.  I don't
plan on doing it.

Chris