HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marwan@paul.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordan is Palestine
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:06:11 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <kubierINN818@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
peewee@playhouse.EBay.Sun.COM (Philip H. Stromer)

# The World Almanac says that Jordan is 77% of the former land of

[... more garbage deleted ...]

# 
# So for now, JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
#    JORDAN IS PALESTINE.

Leon ... Doesn't this remind you of a "creature" that we both know ?!!!
-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
                                                                             _
Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 
                                          ||               | |               |
Better Known as ...                       ||    ()         | |               |
                                          ||           _   | |      .-     | |
Hadi el-gossah gossat hamdah ...          ||      \___/ \__/ |      (_|____/ |
Hamdah, el-rimsh elly yitehaddah ...      ||       |  \_/    |        |      |
galat mareedak ...                        ||  \___/      /   |   \___/    *  |
mareedak, lo tethbahnee be`eedak mareedak.||            /
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: ADC CHALLENGES WALL ST JOURNAL
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:30:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.210610.173162@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.181316.13585@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>>
>>    Hmm...  The article in question made no reference to the Oakar's
>>    ethnic heritage, did it?
>>
>
>So what?  That wasn't the point.

    You have conveniently deleted every line of the original posting,
    (as well as all references to it:), so let me try again:

    The ADC's chairman claimed that WSJ printed an article attacking
    Rep. Mary Rose Oakar because of her ethnic (presumably Arabic)
    heritage.  

    He was not telling the truth.  She was criticized because she had 
    bounced 213 checks, and for she was the chairman of a subcommittee 
    overseeing the House Bank's personnel policies.












-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: How Occupied Is Jerusalem?
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:51:27 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr10.220759.22765@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.201710.109972@cs.cmu.edu>, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>The 1992 Award for Stunning Disingenuousness goes to...[Drum Roll]...
>>
>>In article <1992Apr10.174934.12264@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
>No, that's not my point at all.
>
>The headline is misleading. This source of information has been questioned
>by others are regards to it's neutrality and reliability, and the
>misleading headling contributes to this issue.


Well the excerpts I selected were ones which can be firmly verified (or denied) by 
checking with the housing ministry in Israel.  

The headline was misleading in the sense that it explicitly states what
nearly everyone believes to be Israel's de facto policy wrt East Jerusalem.
Ok, maybe not all of Israel's, but at least Housing Minister Ariel Sharon's.

>
>Leon Gross
>I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.



-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome!)   School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: How to post an article from the news media.
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:41:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.140151.16047@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.073752.3380@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
>> In article <1992Apr9.145308.28492@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
>(Brad Hernlem) writes:
>> Who considers this to be illegal?  
>> Are these the same people who consider all of Israel to be illegal?
>> Who is saying that the fact that Western Jerusalem is in Israel is
>> illegal?  Is the Knesset on land that was seized illegally?  
>> 
>> Do these people expect Israel to give up WEST Jerusalem in land for
>> peace?  Or do they just want Israel to give up all land 'seized illegally'
>> which would mean all of Israel.
>> 
>> >Brad Hernlem 
>> 
>> Leon Gross
>> I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
>
>I was under the impression that the city of Jerusalem was to be an
>international city under the U.N. partition plan. As soon as they had
>the opportunity, Israel seized as much of the city as they could get.
>Have we forgotten that Israel seized a very large chunk of what was to
>be the "Arab" portion of the U.N. partition?

As soon as they had the opportunity?  There was a war.   The
Arab armies (armies from Arab countries) tried to seal off the Jews
in Jerusalem from the rest of the the Jews in Israel.  Is Israel
not supposed to 'seize' the Western half of Jerusalem, where most
of the Jews lived and was mostly Jewish' and let Jordan take it?
And Jordan 'seized' the Eastern half.
Is there anyone who thinks that was illegal?
The 1948 armistice lines were recognized by the international community.
Your use of the word 'seized' is misleading.  
And a larger part of the Arab portion of the U.N. partition was seized
by Jordan.

>Brad Hernlem

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: War Resisters League on Terrorism (should be "of" terrorism)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:41:26 GMT

In <1992Apr14.181454.13615@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:

>I know from reading your posts that we both disagree about the
>definition of "Zionism". This is a word which means different things to
>different people. I am absolutely convinced that what the Hezbollah are
>refering to when they criticize "Zionism" is the racist idea that one
>people somehow has a god-given right to land, property, or respect which
>is not given to all people.

You see, I don't believe it.  I'll tell you why.  If the Hezbollah
were truly fighting racism, I would applaud it.  But how can they, on
the one hand, claim to be fighting racism, and on the other, support a
viciously oppressive regime like the Iranian government, which
persecutes religious minorities, even to the point of genocide?

>I do not believe that you, David, believe in
>this "Zionism", and I know that there are many Jews who also do not.
>However, just like you say that many Jews view such criticism of Zionism
>as an affront to Jews, I believe that many Hezbollahis and others view
>the extreme and brutal actions of Israel's government of representing
>the manifestation of Zionism.

Again, hypocrisy.  The "extreme and brutal" actions are child's play
compared to those taken by Hezbollah itself and the Iranian
government.  Of course I don't support all of Israel's actions and
policies, but I definitely support their war against Hezbollah.

>If I were a PR consultant to the Hezbollah
>I would tell them to knock this "Zionism" bashing off and choose
>different words to express their concerns.

Because Hezbollah is a terrorist group, supported by a tyrannical and
intolerant regime, all the PR in the world will not change a thing.

>We should also remember that
>what we are told that the Hezbollah are saying is the translation of
>people who probably have no interest in making sure that they get it
>right

Do you have any evidence of this?  Who provides translations?  Do you
have any Arabic or Farsi statements from Hezbollah that you'd translate
differently?  It seems that when the going gets tough, the tough blame the
press.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10410 soc.culture.turkish:4032 talk.politics.soviet:3283 soc.culture.europe:3573
From: madjdsad@aludra.usc.edu (Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The Kurdish Autonimous Region
Date: 8 Apr 1992 04:21:01 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Keywords: Kurds in Armenia / Kurds in Azerbaijan


The Kurds are the largest LANDLESS ethnic group in the world.  The Turks have
a country.  It is called Turkey.  Where is the Kurdish state?

Let's solve all of the problems of the world and erase ALL countries.  Let's
form one big world community.  Then let us protect the rights of all cultures
to exist peacefully, co-equally, and to be openly practiced.  What?  You don't
like this?  Could it be that the reasons we have for desiring nations are
DIFFERENT?  I state that if you GUARANTEE that Kurds will be able to practice
their culture and language and pass these heritages on to the EXACT same
extent as the Turks, then we have no problem.  Too bad that this hasn't quite
yet occured (getting there but not yet...) AND if you have the Turkish
government openly admit that what it did to the Kurds in the past was morally
unjustifiable (i.e. a public worldwide apology), then I will stop talking about
an independent country called Kurdistan.  BTW, I am merely pointing out that
there are PLENTY of countries which could serve as being the "victim" of a
Kurdish "land grab".  I do not care if one or all of the areas become Kurdistan
proper.  As long as we are treated like second-class citizens in the countries
in which we inhabit, there will be a need for at least some territory called
Kurdistan which any Kurd can immigrate to and be accepted as a citizen without
having to fear that he or she will lose their cultural rights and without
having to worry about whether or not the country will accept them.  A Kurdish
state ought to accept all ethnic Kurds as citizens who choose to go there.
  Think of the establishment of a Kurdish state, not as a threat but as a
relief as the Kurds will have a place to go if Turkey (unwisely) decides to
go back to its policy of total supression of the Kurds.

Zagros


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: ERIC PERLIMAN,  WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE YOU CLAIM
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:59:17 GMT


You claim to have posted an evidence, but where is it.  I never saw it.
I told you over and over to send directly to me.   If you have  posted
your evidence on tpm, I assume it is not the most efficient way.  You
know we all have work to do, and don't have everyday to read news.

Our deamon here cleans the news more often than  you can think; depending
on the disk space left.

So, where is your evidence again, I assume very much that it has no
base because I lived most of my life in the Tripoli area, and have
visited many times after th ugly Israeli invasion.  Neither the news
here, nor the people there ever talked about Israel going to Nar Albared, 
or even as close as Tripoli.  The only person that claims so is ERIC PERLIMAN.

jle
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above represents my opinion, and is irrelevant to that of my employer
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: ERIC PERLIMAN, WHY DO YOU IGNORE MY BET, I CHALLENGE YOU.
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:19:40 GMT


	ERIC THE IGNORANT, I CHALLENGE YOU TO POST A  QUESTION ON
	SOC.CULTURE.LEBANON SAYING THAT ISRAEL OCCUPIED TRIPOLI
	AND NAHR ALBARED AND KICKED OUT THE PLO. 

	ALL OF THE LEBANESE WILL TAKE A GOOD LAUGH AT YOU.

you are proving your ignorance of where Nahr ALbared is,
by not knowing where it is, and trying to show facts about
this camp, your've proved to us that you only lie and just a bullshitter.
I challenge you to prove that you are not ignorant, bullshitter, and a liar
by getting of this hook.

Over and over again, you've ignored my bet.  To prove that you are
not ignoring it as, I expect you to respond,  CC me at my direct mail
as well as tpm.

Again, I bet you $1000 or $5000 (or your chose of $'s) that Israel
never reached the Tripoli nor the Baalbak Palestinian Camps, in which
Nahr Albared is a part of.

I am darn positive, and willing to challenge you to show YOUR typical
ignorance.

How about this, if I lost, I'll pay you twice what you pay me if
you lost, is that a bet?  If not then your ignorance is as immense
as your lies.

jle



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above represents my opinion, and is irrelevant to that of my employer
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Iran bombs "guerilla" bases in Iraq
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:58:49 GMT

A fine demonstration of hypocrisy in action follows:

In <1992Apr6.202815.2675@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad
Hernlem) writes:

>Thank you for offering me this opportunity to express my opinion about
>these events. Let me start off by suggesting that those who are
>interested in these events should look into the news group
>soc.culture.iranian as there are several recent postings about this
>news. I believe that the Mojahedin Khalq Organization is a violent
>oppresive party which has its own interest placed well above that of the
>Iranian people.

Does that justify bombing an Iraqi village, and killing an estimate 150
people, many of them civillians?  (Source: "As it Happens", CBC Radio,
6 April 1992.)  That's *50* times as many as Israel killed in the
raid on the Palestinian bases in Lebanon.  Do those innocents deserve
to die??  According to Mr. Hernlem, yes.

>On the occasions that the MKO has infiltrated Iran, it
>is my understanding that the local villagers have not embraced them as
>liberators nor cooperated with them and consequently the MKO have killed
>many of them as pasdaran sympathizers.

Ditto for PLO in Lebanon, and also Hezbollah.

>If these people want to change
>Iran, I believe it would be better for Iran and its people for them to
>try to work within the framework of the existing government rather than
>to propose violent revolution. The violence that they carried out
>against Iranian embassies and missions throughout Europe and in Canada
>and the U.S. (which included the taking of a hostage in New York for a
>while) is testimony to the nature of this organization.

Ditto for Hezbollah, which, let's not forget, has proposed a Nazi-like
program of genocide.  Remember what Islamic Jihad said after murdering
almost 30 people in Buenos Aires:

	``It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the
	death of the last Jew on earth,'' the statement said.


Brad, let's face it:  Your position is completely hypocritical and you
expose yourself as a hateful anti-Israel bigot while ignoring much larger
Iranian atrocities.

Oh, and lest anyone accuse me of hypocrisy, I condemn the attacks on the
Iranian embassies.  Embassies are not fair targets.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Jordanian behavior in Jerusalem
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:32:20 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

The Jordanians used Jewish gravestones not only as paving stones but as
latrines !

Josh Backon
Backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL





Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: "Democracy" & "Israel" are Axonyms.
Keywords: Democracy, Israel, vicious, bloody, killers.
Organization: The Amateur Radio Forum
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:49:38 GMT

 
 Article 39480 (102 more) in talk.politics.mideast:
 From: marwan@paul.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
 Subject: "Democracy" & "Israel" are Axonyms.
 
 >Some pro-Israeli people on this net continuously brag about 
 the following Issues:
   1) Israel is one of the most democratic "Democracy".
   2) Israel treats palestinians "nicely" ... In fact some bozo even
      suggested that Palestinians are "more happy" under the Israeli
      occupation that they have ever been.
   3) Condemn any form of predgedism against them by using the term
      "Anti-semitism" and forget how much there hearts could be filled
      with hatred to other people (e.g. Palestinians).
 
 >For those people I would like their explanation to the 
 following story ...
 
 
 ARF says:  
 
 Not quite sure what an "axonym" is but when the Chutzpanazis 
 are through rationalizing their way through the above, try 
 this one....
 
 
 
                    The Landau Report
 
 For those who claim that Israel is the "only democracy in 
 the Mideast, I offer the following as proof that the form of 
 government is far less important then the actions of 
 government.
 
 In late 1987, the Landau Commission was established to 
 investigate the practices of Israel's Shin Bet (security 
 police) after a detainee died at Jenin prison.
 
 The commission was headed by former Israeli Supreme Court 
 Justice, Moshe Landau.
 
 The published report not only acknowledged the routine use 
 of torture, but condoned its use for "security reasons".  
 The Commission concluded that "moderate force" could be used 
 to extract confessions from Palestinians in detention.
 
 I leave to your imagination, just what hideous forms 
 "moderate force" can take, but point out that most civilized 
 people, view torture as the most evil human rights abuse 
 possible and our "friend and ally" routinely employs it.
 
 If this comes to you as a shock, you may rest assured that 
 the report weighs heavily on the hearts of many Jews and 
 non-Jews alike.  It opened the minds of many Americans who 
 had been lead to believe that we share high moral values and 
 ethical standards with Israel.
 
                         ...............
 
 If you are tired of "learning" about American foreign policy 
 from what is effectively, Israeli controlled media, I highly 
 recommend checking out the Washington Report.  A free sample 
 copy is available by calling the American Education Trust 
 at:
                      (800) 368 5788
 
                  Tell 'em arf sent you.
 
     You can also tune in to the Amateur Radio Forum (ARF)
     Sunday evening at 9:PM Chicago time, 3950 KHZ, LSB.
             ....................................
 

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric)
Subject: Re: How Occupied Is Jerusalem?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:21:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.151107.18636@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>(For those of you who think that the use of "occupied" when describing
>Jerusalem is merely political:)
>
>TO TURN JEWS INTO A MAJORITY IN EAST JERUSALEM

For those who have read this article, notice how the perspective is
completely skewed.  East Jerusalem had a Jewish majority in 1948, upon 
partition; that population was expelled by the invading Arab armies and
the gangs of al-Husseini.  The article, however, takes as the proper and
historical case to be that of an Arab city, which is completely
ahistorical.  Sorry, Brad; even ignoring how completely biased the
article is, it doesn't at all convince, or provide evidence.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10338 soc.culture.turkish:3995 talk.politics.soviet:3256 soc.culture.europe:3543
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More on Mojahedin Attacks
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:25:11 GMT
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr14.151440.210662@cs.cmu.edu>, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu
(Anwar Mohammed) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.134217.6795@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> >
> >From the Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran over the weekend:
> >
> >* Hans Dietrich Genscher, in a letter to Iran's foreign minister, Ali
> >Akbar Valayeti, stated that his government regretted the Mojahedin
> >attacks on the Iranian representatives' offices in Germany and that
> >steps have been taken to avert such attacks in the future. Furthermore,
> >Germany is offering to compensate Iran for the loss of property.
> >
> >* Similarly, Norway has offered to compensate Iran for the damage to its
> >embassy in Oslo.
> >
> >* Iran has invited U.N. investigators to examine the villages on the
> >Iranian border which were recently attacked by members of the Mojahedin
> >Khalq Organization (which Iran refers to as the Monafeqin [Monafeq =
> >hypocrite/traitor] Terrorist Organization).
> >
> >Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) 
> 
> The best description I've heard of this whole embassy affair was Peter
> Jenning's....He called it the (and I am paraphrasing a little) "the
give-us-a-
> break story".
> 
> I wonder when Iran will compensate the U.S. and the families of the hostages 
> taken in that embassy.
> 
> -anwar
> -- 
> Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome!)   School of Computer Science
> Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
> Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890

There are a great deal of claims from the Iranian side, as well, (frozen
assets, seized property, broken contracts, undelivered goods) against
the U.S. and other countries. Hopefully all these claims will be
resolved and relations can improve between the U.S. and Iran. There are
many steps which need to be taken on "our side" too.

Brad Hernlem