HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: the question is the answer ?!
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:23:39 GMT

varhus@contra.seas.upenn.edu (Kristofor A Varhus) writes:

>|>> This reminds me of a (probably apocryphal) story I read somewhere
>|>> long ago.  It seems a professor gave a final exam consisting of
>|>> a single question.
>|>> 
>|>> "Write a question that you feel would be suitable for a 
>|>> final exam and answer it."
>|>> 
>|>> One student thought for a few moments, then wrote the above
>|>> sentence twice.

>|>Well, I hope he flunked, for he obviously did not answer the question.

>What do you mean he didn't answer the question?  Yes he did!!!!
>He wrote the sentence *twice*!  Once for the question suitable for a final,
>and once for its answer.  How could you possibly think he didn't answer the
>question?!

>Explain that!

Because the answer to the question requires writing the question *twice*,
not once. Only now you are up to three copies, and so on.
If you try to do this you end up having to write the sentence an
infinite number of times. Think about it.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Batter Up
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:31:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.102154.13842@Csli.Stanford.EDU>, hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga) writes:
=)In article <1992Nov10.210651.10207@swbatl.sbc.com> mk452a@oktext.UUCP (Mark Kamphaus) writes:
=)>
=)>Two Batters - A & B - were comparing their seasons and
=)>settling bets.  A had a higher batting average than B
=)>during the first  half of the season and receieved
=)>$5 from B.  A also had a higher batting average during the
=)>second half and received another $5.  The bet for best
=)>overall batting average was for $20.  After they settled,
=)>A had a net gain/loss of one of the amounts below.  Which
=)>one and why.
=)>
=)>a) -$10
=)>b) +$10
=)>c) -$30
=)>d) +$25
=)>e) A could not end up with any of the above.
=)
=)If this is asking for a unique answer, the problem is void
=)because either (a) or (b) can happen.
=)
=)# of course there is also the common sense possibility that A gains $30;
=)# but this is not in the alternatives.
=)
Actually, it is, if you say from the problem statement that:

A had a net gain/loss of c) -$30
                 ----    -------
Saved by the double negative.  :-)
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"                              |Just because you're paranoid doesn't|
| johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |   mean they're not out to get you. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Let's face it; if our lawyers knew what went on here, they'd shut us down.  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: paul@media-lab.media.mit.edu (Paul Dworkin)
Subject: Re: Formulae for pi
Organization: Media Labs, MIT, Cambridge, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:29:29 GMT

   From: blom@husc15.harvard.edu
   Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
   Date: 6 Nov 92 21:35:04 GMT

   Oh, I have the first 1.25 million digits on my computer, but that's too
   much bandwidth for the net or for the Unix mail system.
   I d/l'ed the first 1.25 million from somewhere, via anonymous FTP.


This got me thinking hmm, 1.25 million digits, that's over a meg-- it would
take a long time to FTP.

Then I thought, well maybe they have it compressed.

Then I thought, wait, they can can't compress it because the digits
come out pretty random.  That's why it's hard to find in the first place.

Then I thought, wait, [16 atan(1/5) - 4 atan(1/239)] _is_ a compressed
representation of PI.  It just takes a heck of a lot of compute power to
uncompress it.

So the question becames:

Ignoring the inefficiencies of ASCII, will PI compress using any of the
text based compression methods?
--
	    -Paul Dworkin	paul@media-lab.media.mit.edu  (617) 253-0664
				Media Lab, E15-325 M.I.T., Cambridge MA  02139
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: mk452a@oktext.sbc.com (Mark Kamphaus)
Subject: Re: Balls in the urn puzzle
Reply-To: mk452a@oktext.UUCP (Mark Kamphaus)
Organization: Southwestern Bell
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 21:00:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.015652.10108@nas.nasa.gov> asimov@wk223.nas.nasa.gov (Daniel A. Asimov) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.234342.24086@galois.mit.edu> tycchow@riesz.mit.edu (Timothy Y. Chow) writes:
>	[...]
>>Clearly these intuitive beliefs generate a paradox.  But who cares?  The
>>error lies in assuming that our physical intuition is applicable to a
>>situation that is clearly physically impossible (as far as we know).
>>-- 
>>Tim Chow     tycchow@math.mit.edu
>
>Amen!  Let me introduce a simpler example to demonstrate the same point:
>
>Consider 2 situations:
>
>1)	At the start there are balls numbered 1,2,3,... in a box.
>	At 1/N of a minute before noon, you remove ball #N, for N=1,2,3,...
>
>2)	At the start there are balls numbered 1,2,3,... in a box.
>	At 1/N of a minute before noon, you remove ball #2N, for N=1,2,3,...
>
>"Physically," the same thing apparently occurs in both situations.

No, absolutely not.  In (1) every ball is touched by the removal process,
in (2) only even numbered balls are touched and therefore the urn fills with
an infinite number of odd numbered balls.  Those odd balls are never removed.
The two processes are very dissimilar.

>But it is perhaps intuitively clear that there will be different 
>outcomes at noon:

Only because two different processes are being considered.

>In 1) there are 0 balls in the box at noon;

This is not intuitive.  No removal ever empties the urn.
For every interval considered, you can determine the
# of the ball removed, and the number of balls in the
urn pending removal.  10 balls are the least number of
balls in the urn and there are 19 remaining when ball
#1 is taken out.

>in 2 >there are infinitely many.

And each one will be labled an odd number.  But the urn cannot
contain an infinite number, can it? If the balls are countable
after time x they are finite, so for infinite balls to be within
the urn they have to uncountable.
Consider f(x) = 1/x.  If f(x)->0 as x ->oo, then what is
f(x) at x=oo+1?  the question isn't reasonable since oo+1 is
not a valid value for x nor does it represent anything unique.
So this isn't intuitive either.

mark
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Formulae for pi
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:17:05 GMT

"Don't quote me."

               -blom@husc15.harvard.edu

      (i'm sorry, i had to do it.  i don't know why.)
From: blom@husc15.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Formulae for pi
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:35:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc15.1992Nov6.163504.17171
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Well, if you really know FEWER than 100 digits, this may be of some use.
3.14159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230  
78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 . . .

Those are the first 101 digits, off the top of my head.  That's all I know. 
Sorry.  I used Derive to find pi in the first place, but Mathematica or Maple
would work, and there are plenty of other programs out there.

Well, for an algorithm, how about x_nt x_n+1 = xsin(x_n), and use the
Taylor series expansion for sine?  Start with x_0 = 3.  Or, maybe use the fact
that the sum of the reciprocals of the tenth powers is pi to the tenth power
divided by 93555.  I think.  Don't quote me.  This is based on the Riemann Zeta
function as it relates to the Bernoulli numbers.  1/93555 is the tenth
Bernoulli number, I think.  Again, don't quote me.  :)

Along the lines of arctangents, Machin's formula is

  pi = 16 atan(1/5) - 4 atan(1/239).

Use the Taylor series for arctangent, which is

  atan(x) = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 . . .

Also,
   
  pi = 48 atan(1/18) + 32 atan(1/57) - 20 atan(1/239)

and
  
  pi = 80 atan(1/57) + 96 atan(1/68) + 48 atan(1/117) - 20 atan(1/239)

I derived these formulas knowing that

  atan(1/n) = atan(1/(n+delta)) + atan(delta/(delta*n + n^2 + 1))

Choose positive or negative delta values which divide n^2+1.  You want to
evaluate the arctangents of small values because they converge faster.

Probably the fastest algorithm to find pi, but a really hairy one, and not
necessary unless you need zillions of digits, is based on the
Arithmetic-Geometric Mean.  I happen to have the book "PI and the AGM"
by Borwein and Borwein beside me, so you're in luck.  By the way, this book is
probably the best single reference for this type of thing.  Anyway, here's the
AGM-related algorithm:
 
  x_n+1 := ((x_n)^(1/2) + (x_n)^(-1/2)) / 2              x_0 := 2^(1/2)
                                                        
  y_n+1 := (y_n(x_n)^(1/2) + (x_n)^(-1/2)) / (y_n + 1)   y_0 := 2^(1/4)

  pi_n := pi_n-1 (x_n + 1) / (y_n + 1)                  pi_0 := 2 + 2^(1/2)

The eleventh iteration of this yields over 5000 digits.  Oh, I have the first
1.25 million digits on my computer, but that's too much bandwidth for the net
or for the Unix mail system.  If you wanted, I could send you like 10,000
digits by mail, but it's kinda fun calculating them!  My computer calculated
10,000 just fine, but it choked when I tried writing to disk.  Oh, well.  C'est
la vie!  So I went with 5000 until I d/l'ed the first 1.25 million from
somewhere, via anonymous FTP.  Keep your eyes peeled for the sci.math FAQ, which
details how to do that.

One last thing . . .  BASIC????????  What Basic are you using?  No DOS basic
gives any decent speed when doing things like this.  Your calculation time
would be shorter in C or Pascal, or especially Fortran.  Just a thought.

Ciaou
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Macintosh word search puzzle generator?
From: chem@uwpg02.uwinnipeg.ca
Date: 11 NOV 92 12:05:26 CST
Organization: University of Winnipeg

Hi. Does anyone know of a program for the Macintosh
that will generate word search puzzles. Thanks for any
info and please responde directly to me. Cheers, Marsh
Internet:  CHEM@UWPG02.UWINNIPEG.CA
From: ryoung@pollux.svale.hp.com (Roderick Young)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:33:43 GMT
Subject: Billion-year survivability
Organization: Hewlett Packard CPCD, Sunnyvale CA
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles

If I wanted to send information to a society that will inhabit the earth
one billion years in the future, how would I do it?  If I engraved the
message on a bunch of diamonds, then buried the diamonds in a secure place,
would that do it?  There must be a better way.
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au (Pauli Dale)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Word sequence
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:02:40 GMT
Reply-To: grue@cs.uq.oz.au

>>I hope this isn't an FAQ, but what's the longest sequence of 4-letter words 
>>that you can find such that the last three letters of each word are the
>>first three letters of the next in the sequence?

An extension to my previous post, for length 6 the best chain I find is of
length 6 (funny numbers huh).

Here are all four of them...


	TCHAST chaste haster astern sterna TERNAL
	TCHAST chaste haster astern sterna TERNAR
	YPLAST plaste laster astern sterna TERNAL
	YPLAST plaste laster astern sterna TERNAR



        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?
--
From: skataba@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Break Time Head Work
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:30:25 GMT
Reply-To: skataba@PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Nov5.195933.17178@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> skataba@PacBell.COM (Sam Atabaki) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.133223.16332@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> nas_ps@jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>The following word problems appeared recently in the Design News:
>
>1.	A hiker can average two miles per hour uphill and six miles per hour
>	downhill.  Going uphill and down, and if s/he spends no time at the
>	summit, what will be his/her average speed for an entire trip ?
>
My previous post had a calculation error- here is the corretd answer:
Let m be the distance (one-way). Then,
   it takes him m/2 hours to go up the hill
   it takes him m/6 hours to go back down the hill
So, total time spent to travel 2m miles is (m/2 + m/6)= 2m/3 hours,
thus, the average speed is:  3 miles per hour.

Sam Atabaki
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: mclean@itd.nrl.navy.mil (John McLean)
Subject: Re: Logic Puzzle (SPOILER!)
Reply-To: mclean@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Organization: Information Technology Division, Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:30:06 GMT

From Tim.Epstein@f526.n635.z3.fidonet.org (Tim Epstein)
>Which of the following 5 sentences are true?
> 
>a) It is not the case that 2 consecutive sentences are both false. 
>b) There are fewer false than true sentences. 
>c) It is not the case that 3 consecutive sentences are all false.
>d) It is not the case that 2 consecutive sentences are both true. 
>e) There are exactly 3 false sentences. 

(d) is true; the rest are false.  In other words, the following 5 assertions
are true:

a) 2 consecutive sentences in the puzzle are both false. 
b) There are more or an equal amount of false than true sentences in the puzzle. 
c) 3 consecutive sentences in the puzzle are all false.
d) It is not the case that 2 consecutive sentences in the puzzle are both true. 
e) There are either more than 3 or less than 3 false sentences in the puzzle. 
 

John McLean
 

Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com ("Johnson")
Subject: Balls in urn (SPOILER)
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:39:17 GMT


I finally realized it in the shower this morning.  The "balls in the urn"
puzzle is the rec.puzzles version of the "Green Golf Ball Joke," right?

For those of you not on rec.humor, this is a recurring thread where
someone brings up the "Green Golf Ball Joke," or GGBJ, and several
experienced readers respond with affirmations as to how it's the best
and funniest joke ever invented.  Usually there are vague references to
bizzare content and what happened last time it was posted (read: why
nobody is allowed to post it anymore).  The new guys on the group
desperately post and mail everybody trying to get a copy of the joke.

I caught on to this fairly quickly, but the "balls in the urn" version
is a much more masterful execution.  The problem and arguments are
clearly stated, and participants can toss "department of mathematics"
into thier signatures to add credence to their ludicrous conclusions.
Thus, a new reader of the group (me) can be led around by the nose for
quite a while as people reply "insufficient proof," "too intuitive,"
etc. and counter with thier own detailed but flawed handwaving.

What really gives credence to the whole thing is that I have encountered
people on the net who *honestly* hold beliefs nearly as absurd, and who
defend them with logic equally flawed and circular.  The clue was a
poster who indicated that the thread was recurring, and commented how
tenaciously people held to their opinions on the subject--which I now
recognise as a mechanism to prolong the argument or to cast doubt into
the minds of people who know the answer, but not the joke.

You who duped me, I salute you--I hope you had as much fun as I did when
I realized I had been had (in the shower this morning!)  No hard
feelings at all--I look forward to participating in the next snipe hunt!

Later,
	"Johnson"
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"                              |Just because you're paranoid doesn't|
| johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |   mean they're not out to get you. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Let's face it; if our lawyers knew what went on here, they'd shut us down.  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: s290@brems.ii.uib.no ( Per Ivar Roervik)
Subject: Trigonometry
Organization: DevNull A/S
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 13:55:08 GMT

  As an example of the inherent complexity of trigonometry, I
  call for solutions to this simple looking eqn.:
   
             tan(x)-sin(x)=0.01

  Imaginary chocolate-bar awarded for closed form solutions!

  Tore Nordstrand   tore@maxwell.fi.uib.no  c/o  s290@brems.ii.uib.no
From: mapsj@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Simon Juden)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: gays and condoms (PARTIAL SPOILER)
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:58:09 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <SUOPANKI.92Nov5001903@zombie.oulu.fi>, Heikki Suopanki writes:
>
>> There are 6 gay men and they want to have safe sex.
>> How many condoms they need if everybody wants to have anal sex with
>> everybody, i.e. everybody wants to insert penis in all anuses (sp?)
>> (except their own :). Of course all of them have to be the receiving end
>> as many times.


[part of algorithm deleted]
> Condoms 1-5 now have one
>used side, and for condom i this side was used by P_i, and it's easy
>to see that the P_i's, i<6, may now have mutual sex among themselves
>without changing the status of condoms 1-5.  When done, each P_i, i<6,
>may have mutual sex with P_6 using condom i.

I will resist any reference to homophobia in the hope of educating at least the
author of this algorithm: 

	1 - A condom does NOT provide safe sex, only safer sex. HIV infection
	    (and, in the case of heterosexual sex, pregnancy) can still occur.
	    It's just a lot less likely.

	2 - NO condom should be used more than once, not even by the same
	    partners.

I know this isn't maths. But if people are going to refer to condoms on the net
they shouldn't propogate incorrect information which could kill someone who
believes it.

Oh well.

Simon
From: varhus@jig.seas.upenn.edu (Kristofor A Varhus)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: the question is the answer ?!
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:16:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <96980@netnews.upenn.edu> varhus@contra.seas.upenn.edu (Kristofor A Varhus) writes:
|>In article <1992Nov10.154338.8379@nntp.nta.no> stein@hal.nta.no (Stein Kulseth FBA) writes:
|>>In article <1992Nov10.144701.390@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, wilson@rhombus.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson) writes:
|>>> In article <1992Nov5.213159.10826@sbcs.sunysb.edu> kthiruma@engws3.ic.sunysb.edu () writes:
|>>> >
|>>> >a question when repeated becomes its own answer.
|>>> >
|>>> 
|>>> This reminds me of a (probably apocryphal) story I read somewhere
|>>> long ago.  It seems a professor gave a final exam consisting of
|>>> a single question.
|>>> 
|>>> "Write a question that you feel would be suitable for a 
|>>> final exam and answer it."
|>>> 
|>>> One student thought for a few moments, then wrote the above
|>>> sentence twice.
|>>> 
|>>> -Dwight
|>>
|>>Well, I hope he flunked, for he obviously did not answer the question.
|>>
|>>-- 
|>>stein.kulseth@nta.no (Norwegian Telecom Research)
|>>   'When murders are committed by mathematics, they can be solved by
|>>   mathematics. Most of them aren't, and this one wasn't'
|>>   - Nick Charles (Dashiell Hammett's "The Thin Man")
|>
|>What do you mean he didn't answer the question?  Yes he did!!!!
|>He wrote the sentence *twice*!  Once for the question suitable for a final,
|>and once for its answer.  How could you possibly think he didn't answer the
|>question?!
|>
|>Explain that!
|>
|>
|>--
|>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|>Kristofor A. Varhus			|       THIS SPACE AVAILABLE
|>varhus@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		|        E-MAIL IMMEDIATELY!
|>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was wondering how many people would respond to my obviously stupid and
faked post.  I was somewhat surprised at the four or five people who got
sucked into my very funny shenanigan.  8^)


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kristofor A. Varhus			|       THIS SPACE AVAILABLE
varhus@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		|        E-MAIL IMMEDIATELY!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: a word almost its own antonym
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 22:33:50 GMT

There's a word, X, in the English language.  X can be an adverb.  Xly
is an adverb.  There are two very similar sentences, one of which can
be transformed into the other by removing X (which is an adverby in
that sentence) and inserting Xly, which have (sort of) opposite
meanings.

What is X?

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: rr@hal.com (Robert Rodriguez)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Batter Up
Date: 11 Nov 1992 23:18:42 GMT
Organization: HAL Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: jazzy.hal.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Mark Kamphaus (mk452a@oktext.sbc.com) wrote:
: 
: Two Batters - A & B - were comparing their seasons and
: settling bets.  A had a higher batting average than B
: during the first  half of the season and receieved
: $5 from B.  A also had a higher batting average during the
: second half and received another $5.  The bet for best
: overall batting average was for $20.  After they settled,
: A had a net gain/loss of one of the amounts below.  Which
: one and why.
: 
: a) -$10
: b) +$10
: c) -$30
: d) +$25
: e) A could not end up with any of the above.
: 
: 

		A	B	Winner
1st half	1/100	0/1	A
2nd half	2/3	1/2	A
Total		3/103	1/3	B
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs)
Subject: Re: Logic Puzzle: spoiler
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 18:52:35 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <721041158.AA07433@csource.oz.au> Tim.Epstein@f526.n635.z3.fidonet.org (Tim Epstein) writes:
> 
>Which of the following 5 sentences are true?
> 
>a) It is not the case that 2 consecutive sentences are both false. 
>b) There are fewer false than true sentences. 
>c) It is not the case that 3 consecutive sentences are all false.
>d) It is not the case that 2 consecutive sentences are both true. 
>e) There are exactly 3 false sentences. 

They are (respectively): False, False, False, True, False

-David Gibbs
(dagibbs@quantum.on.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles,rec.org.mensa
From: stein@hal.nta.no (Stein Kulseth FBA)
Subject: Re: the question is the answer ?!
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 12:20:20 GMT

> One question he posed was what he called Douglas Hofstader's problem :
> a question when repeated becomes its own answer.


This is more or less borrowed from DRH, yet interesting:

What is the result of saying the following sentence twice: 
'What is the result of saying the following sentence twice?' ?

-- 
stein.kulseth@nta.no (Norwegian Telecom Research)
   'When murders are committed by mathematics, they can be solved by
   mathematics. Most of them aren't, and this one wasn't'
   - Nick Charles (Dashiell Hammett's "The Thin Man")