HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au (John MacLean)
Subject: Re: Multiple Desktop Applications
Reply-To: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au (John MacLean)
Organization: Tower Technology, Sydney
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:39:59 GMT

In article <bazyar.725609147@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au (John MacLean) writes:
>
>>Would it be possible to:
>>[.....]
>>- In this way, have multiple applications running on the desktop under
>>GNO, with each application running in a scaleable window with a menu bar.
>>Has anyone given this (or something similar) some thought?
>
>  John,
>  Lots of thought.  First off, there are lots of programs that people
>will (reasonably) expect to run from such an environment.  The ones
>I'm referring to, like modZap, soniqTracker, Finder, synthLab, Platinum
>Paint, and many other, all write directly to the screen.  This is a big
>problem and it's highly unlikely anyone will ever change these apps
>to not write directly to the screen.
>
>  Other than that, what you noted above is just a few of the things
>that Switch-It! does to make its application switching environment
>work for most programs.
> Jawaid Bazyar

Just giving you a chance to plug Switch-It :-).

Seriously, I didn't think Switch-It put applications into scaleable windows,
I thought it JUST swapped out the entire screen (and all the toolset direct
pages, stack, global data, etc, etc, etc). Otherwise you would still have
the problem of programs writing directly to the screen.

What I was proposing was that tool calls were patched so that Quickdraw,
menu manager, etc, etc, were all actually only started once.
When multiple applications tried to start up screen based toolsets the
patch code would keep tables of virtual screens in windows, and only start
the toolsets if they had not already been started.
You wouldn't have direct page toolset conflict, because each toolset would
only be started once.
When toolcalls were made, the grafport etc would be set to the virtual
window of the appropriate application (determined via a getpid() and a
table lookup).
Although this is extremely complicated (as is what you have achieved), this
would allow (I would think) multiple desktop applications to multitask
PRE-EMPTIVELY.

As you suggested, this doesn't get around applications that write directly
to the screen, and more than likely there are other very serious problems
with existing applications.
-- 
This net: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au                   Phone: +61 2 427 2999
That net: uunet!fawlty.towers.oz.au!johnmac             Fax:   +61 2 427 7072
Snail:    Tower Technology, 1 Apollo Pl,                Home:  +61 2 449 5930
          Lane Cove, NSW 2066, Australia.
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Shells
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:10:10 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC  CANADA

Anyone use zsh? It's a really excellent shell. But it's huge and I don't
realistically expect there ever to be a version for GNO.

There are a few things from zsh that would be nice for GNO, though. For instance

echo `qtime`         - replaces `qtime` with the standard output from qtime,
                       then passes that as a paramater to echo.

You could do the same thing with just qtime, but there are cases when it's not
that simple (I can't remember now, of course :), but I would have used that
once a while ago)

Also, history substitutions. If, for example, you want to add an alias to
your system, you do this.

alias stuff otherstuff
echo !1 >>~/gshrc               - echo the previous line to the file.

!1 means first line in the history, !2, the second, and so on.

gsh also needs a way to run a series of proceses in the background, but
sequentially.

process1 & process2 & process3 &

will start them all up simultaneously, I think. You should be able to do....

( process1 ; process2 ; process3 ) &

run them one after the other.

Also, this is a little less related to shells, but how do you do this...

Say you have a background process and you want to change a paramater or
something. A pipe through which data can be sent to it? No: the pipe would
have had to be created when the process was and hooked to some other process
(well, there's always named pipes, but...). I suspect that UNIX processes do
this by making you put them in the foreground temporarily. It would change
modes, accept commands, then go back into the background and continue what it
was doing. But this sounds like it has a few little problems. Like it doesn't
really work well from within a program. The most logical thing to do, from, for
example, C, would be something along the lines of...

  open(something-that-lets-you-write-data-to-a-process)
  write(with-the-fd-you-got-from-open)

That's named pipes as UNIX implements them, isn't it?

Well, most of that stuff is a wish list anyway.

---
RE: gsh not connected to the kern.

Who intercepts the ORCA Execute call (system() in C). I thought kern took care
of all intercepting of things, but that command sting has to make it to gsh
somehow for parsing and execution... What is there are several shells running?
Who gets the Execute call? 

Gotta change my sig now.....
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: TelCOM ftp site
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:46:33 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL


	I looked in /pub/apple2/gno in pindarus.cs.uiuc.edu and I couldn't
find MuGS or telcom. Is it somewhere else? Thanks. (I saw sz there, but no
rz-- is that available somewhere?)
-- 
Sameer_Parekh zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM zane@infopls.chi.il.us
PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM   | Specialization is for insects
Anonymous mail to ap.2363@cupid.sai.com |   - Robert A. Heinlein
Sun Dec 27 21:33:09 1992 US Debt: $4,186,061,721,696 Per capita: $16,350
From: glenn@cis.ksu.edu (Glenn S Goldstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: IIGS Server
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:58:16 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: depot.cis.ksu.edu
Keywords: gno, server

Jawaid Bazyar directed me to this news group in the hopes that someone
here knows how to connect an Apple IIe as a terminal to an Apple IIgs
running GNO/ME.  Well...if you know how to do this please post an
answer here or email me.  Thanks.
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: IIGS Server
Keywords: gno, server
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:49:35 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

glenn@cis.ksu.edu (Glenn S Goldstein) writes:

>Jawaid Bazyar directed me to this news group in the hopes that someone
>here knows how to connect an Apple IIe as a terminal to an Apple IIgs
>running GNO/ME.  Well...if you know how to do this please post an
>answer here or email me.  Thanks.

I wrote a program that lets you do remote access by modem, fully automated.
It would also work with a null modem cable (you would have to type ten
initializing keystrokes from the IIe so the program think you are a modem)

From the GS, it's as simple as

seq .ttyx &        - where .ttyx is the name of the modem port.

If it's a real modem connected, it will answer like a BBS running in the
background. On exit, it starts over and waits for another call.

There are limitations (anybody can call and format your hard disk all they
like, so it's not good to actually OPEN your computer :).

I finally got around to putting tnewpgrp and settpgrp (can't even remember if
that's it) and it fully works now. Turns out gsh changes terminal parameters
and the process group must be reset every time gsh is run. Thanks Jawaid and the
others.

If you want it, I can put it on cba2
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Why shouldn't you use csh?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:19:10 GMT

lenz@ssd.comm.mot.com (Doug Lenz) writes:

>Hi everyone!

>After following the discussion about csh vs. any other REAL shell, I thought
>I'd include the "Why you shouldn't use csh FAQ"...
>(PS: Another thing to try, find a Sun workstation and do a man on csh.  The
>     man page TELLS you you shouldn't actually try to use csh for writing
>     scripts... What's the point?)

  Where?  Could you quote the relevant text?  The csh manpage is _large_ :)
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Re: cc ... & dmake
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:43:37 GMT

henigan@quando.quantum.de (Kevin Henigan) writes:

>In article <1h5c80INN9ba@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
>>As soon as I finish dmake, porting stuff should be quite a bit easier,
>>what with dmake and cc ... 
>Hey, now were talking, a real make for gno, when this is ready then porting
>other un*x stuff will be easy...

Not quite. While a real make will be very helpful, it does not make porting
easier. Or not a lot easier. A decent lib, on the other hand :)

Soenke
-- 
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Apple II Networks
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:09:20 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

dsdd@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Roy Barrett) writes:

>>Well, certainly there is ProLine - run strictly on Apple II machines.
>>Then doesnt GBBS have a network?  And what about the AppleNet, METAL
>>and some of those other boards - do they share networking?

>Okay, AppleNet is just a BBS Program, there is no network code in AppleNet.

The AppleNet network has two nodes, both in Montreal.

Now you can't argue with that :-)
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: kimba@gnh-cathouse.cts.com (Kim Brennan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Printing to an AppleLaserWriter LS
Date: 30 Dec 92 10:36:34 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu Dec 24 92 at 23:33:12 (EST)

> From: cd248@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Sherman)
> Huh?  You can save a GS file as Postscript??  Tell me if I read that
> right.

Yep. Easiest thing to do, and largely undocumented. Set up the document in
whatever your favorite GS/OS application and use the Laserwriter printer
driver (and you don't need to rename it if you are using GS System 6.0 :) When
you are ready to print, hold down the command key (open apple) and F keys
while CLICKING on the OKAY button. A text file (called GS.Postscript.xx) or
something like that will be put in the */SYSTEM/DRIVERS directory. This is a
simple Postscript document.
 
Note, when printing to disk, the driver does not handle option characters, and
does a poor job of translating GS Screen fonts into Postscript equivalents, so
it may be necessary to docter the text file slightly if you use fonts other
than, say, Helvetica, Courier and Times. 

I wrote up a pretty extensive document on all the extra problems you might
encounter when trying to get that Postscript file printed elsewhere. It's
available in the APR library on America Online.
 
I probably should double check it, update it as necessary and post it to the
net.

                    -=> Message from Kim Brennan <=-
          (kimba@gnh-cathouse.cts.com)  or  (kimbrennan@aol.com)
         {Cathouse BBS (301) 840-8567 3/12/24/9600 V.32 24 hours}
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: tonyh@pro-scat.cts.com (Tony Hamaoui)
Subject: //c and monitor for sale $275
Organization: ProLine [pro-scat] St. Petersburg, Florida.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:38:18 EST

I have a apple //c Rom 3 with a 14" apple color composite                  
monitor model #A2M6020.   Its in great shape.  I also have                 
a 300 baud modem I will sell separately.
From: philippe@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Philippe Benichou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: OOTW
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:29:31 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

I have a very simple question... how much memory (ram) does Out Of This 
World need!!! Thank you!!!
From: Hagen@gold.ucr.edu (Jeffrey Hagen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: documentation?
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:17:51 GMT

Anyone out there know where I can get my hands on some books on how to use  
the Apple II system?  They should be pretty basic since the person they  
are for is about as computer illiterate as they come.
Thanks in advance
Jeff
From: Pauley@vnet.ibm.com (Paul Benson)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 09:17:25 EST
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Need help with LineEdit Control flags
Organization: IBM Personal Computer Co. - PS/1 Development
Disclaimer: This posting represents my views, not necessarily IBM's.
News-Software: UReply 3.0
            <123400006@hpindda.cup.hp.com>

In <123400006@hpindda.cup.hp.com> David Tribby writes:
>    I'm trying to do things very much like a control in SynthLab...an
>"increment" and "decrement" icon button with the numeric result shown
>in a 3-character LE Text field. I use a Line Edit control rather than
>static text because (1) there's an easy way for the program to change
>the value of the control and (2) the enclosing rectangle look cool :-).

   Hmmm, I know what you mean by the ease of changing LEcontrols.  I
was recently trying to change a static text control on the fly.  The
string would appear, but sometimes would be preceded by a garbage
byte (like it was printing the length byte).  Looking through GSBug
the pointers & the strings were fine.  I ended up using DrawString
with the penmode set to XOR.  I guess you could do something similar
(i.e. draw the rect and then the value, taking care of hiliting, etc.),
but then you may as well use a LEControl ;).

Pauley
GEnie: P.Benson1
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Turbo mouse
From: csokolo@eis.calstate.edu (Christopher Sokolov)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:26:36 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

unknown@Apple.COM (Matt Ackeret) writes:

> ADB is ADB is ADB..
> 

While this is generally true, some ADB devices designed for the Macintosh
do not work with the Apple IIGS.  Why?  I don't know, but that is what I
heard.  I just think it is better to be safe then sorry. :)

> --  
> unknown@apple.com	 Apple II Forever 
> unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu  These opinions are mine, not Apple's.

-Christopher Sokolov				csokolo@eis.calstate.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0n5y1F-0000bgC; Sun, 27 Dec 92 05: 27 PST
From: jlinton@pro-scat.cts.com (Jeremy Linton)
Subject: 5 1/4" disk image
Organization: ProLine [pro-scat] St. Petersburg, Florida.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 21:39:04 EST

        Does anyone know of a program that takes a 5.25" disk and saves it
image as a file. I don't want it compressed or anything.. What I want is
someway to take a 5.25 and port the hole thing including the directory
structure and boot record to a PC. I have a Apple imulator in SOFTWARE!!!
for the PC (public domain, with source). The only problem is it only
supports 5.25" virual drives on the PC's hd and has no way to transfer
files I have a Null modem on the apple<->pc so as long as I can get the
disk image then i'm all set.


                        Thanks,
                                Jeremy Linton
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: WULF@cip.physik.uni-stuttgart.de (Wulf Hofbauer)
Subject: Re: re-entrant programs
Organization: CIP-Pool Physics Dept, University of Stuttgart, FRG
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:19:50 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

 <bazyar.724922247@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org writes:

>    're-entrant' means that more than one process may execute the program
> at the same time.  Usually the term is applied only to subroutines
> of a program.. recursive subroutines are reentrant, and that should
> give us a starting point.

Recursive routines are not necessarily reentrant unless they work only on
variables dynamically allocated to every task.



"Though this be madness, there is method in it." (Shakespeare)
+-------------------------------------+-----------------------+
!  wulf@cip.physik.uni-stuttgart.de   !  Apple // Enthusiast  !
+-------------------------------------+-----------------------+
! Wulf Hofbauer * Heilbronner Str. 12 * W-7146 Tamm * Germany !
!                      Tel. 07141/602518                      !
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: An oft repeated point... (Was Re: Switch It)
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 07:18:20 GMT

90taobri@CHASM.SCAR.UTORONTO.CA (Brian Tao) writes:

>    Hmmm... maybe I should post my bug list with 80+ items on it to offset
>all this ego-puffing that's been going on.  ;-)  Of course, to Procyon's
>credit, 95% of those bugs have been squashed by now...  :)

  Just to clarify, so noone gets the wrong impression.  The 80+ items
that Brian mentions were collected over the entire beta-test cycle
of SI!, and indeed almost all of them were quashed.  A few we left
as an exercise for the user :-) (Actually, they were deemed unimportant..
we'll fix them when we get time).

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: IIgs files -> serial port
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:52:04 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

pinder2@newton.emba.uvm.edu.uvm.edu (Justin Pinder) writes:

>Can anyone tell me how to send a file to the Apple serial port in "raw"
>format? (Using ProDOS or system utilities)..? Is there any way to 
>transmit files through the serial port at all?

That sounds very do-able. All you would have to do is list the file with
output redirected to the port. Under GNO/ME:

cat file >.ttyx

Under ORCA:

type file >.devx             (Use "devices" to find the .dev number for the)
                             (port)

If you don't use a shell, I think you're out of luck. It's just one of those things that;s really easy from a shell that's not without one...

I suppose you could always try something along the lines of...

10 print chr$(4);"open file"
20 print chr$(4);"read file"
30 get a$
40 print chr$(4);"pr#x"
50 print a$;
60 goto 20

Add an ONERR for the end of file (15 onerr goto 70 // 70 print chr$(4);"close")
and it works (but very, very slowly)
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a new line for my sig now that christmas is over... Hmmhm.hmh.

>/             (__)( )      pinder2@hal.uvm.edu                               /
>/             (-o)( )      The University of Vermont                         /
>/       /------\/-()       EMBA-CF, 252 Votey Building                       /
>/      /|     ||           Speaker for the Dead / IRC                        /
>/     * ||----||           "Drugs have taught an entire generation of kids   /
>/       ^^    ^^            the metric system."                              /
From: herbertf@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Herbert Fung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: rom 1 to rom 3 upgrade
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 21:51:55 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Previously Bill Logsdon wrote:
 
>I beg yer pardon.... some of the machines sold in Europe and Canada,
>when booted, show "Rom 02"..... I have SEEN this... it did exist, and is
>rare...
 
Has anyone else seen this?
 
--
Herbert Fung                    | "Hard work doesn't make miracles,
Edmonton Remote Systems         |   Miracles just make hard work!"
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada       |       The Herbster! 1988

Herbert Fung              herbertf@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: jdb8042@blkbox (John D. Baker)
Subject: Re: WANTED: Your original 65816
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:59:40 GMT

I know exactly what I'm talking about.  I've seen a 65816-4 (took the cover
off a IIgs and looked because I was skeptical to begin with) and it was
most definitely a 40-pin DIP (later models of IIgs may have used one that
came in a different package and I can't really vouch for what the acclerator
boards use) and while some pins have been re-assigned, those are
are not connected in the //e anyway.

I've got two separate reports from people who installed ZIP GS's in
their IIgs and just popped their spare '816 into a //c or a //e 
(and had it work flawlessly).

I'll go dig up the mail I received when I asked about '802s in
this group a few months ago and post it for your education.
Using the old '816 was one of the first things suggested over
buying an '802.


John D. Baker  ->An Apple CardZ180 Z-System nut//
Internet:  jdb8042@blkbox.com            jdbaker@taronga.com
UUCP:      nuchat!blkbox!jdb8042         ...!taronga!jdbaker
BBSs:  JOHN BAKER on Z-Node #45 [(713) 937-8886],
The Vector Board [(716) 544-1863], PIC of the Mid-Town [(713) 527-8939]
Karnage: "I am certainly very happy for you, but--WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!"
From: co057@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven H. Lichter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Comments Anyone?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 14:39:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


That post came from Scully's Revenge which is located in Gardena, Calif.
I don't know where you got the idea it was Riverside. We are part of the same
net and if you saw it there you should have looked at the message source
which is listed in the header.
.
*******************************************************************************
|                 -=- Sysop: Apple Elite II -=- an Ogg-Net BBS                |
|                   (909) 359-5338  12/24/96/14.4 V32/V42bis                  |
|           Internet co057@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven H. Lichter)          |
*******************************************************************************
###