From: jhao@hila.hut.fi (Jixiang Hao)
Subject: Re: Roh visits china
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:53:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.001904.15230@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Suh Jung Yul" <jysuh@moose.cs.indiana.edu> writes:
> ..... some stuff deleted ......
>valid, I think. Perhaps, you have never read Soc.China.Culture long enough.
>The same people who supported and still support Democracy in China suddenly
>turns into Communist Propaganda machine who exhorts that Western countries
>are conspiring to support Tibet independence to undermine China. Of course,
>same is true for Shinjiang and Inner Mongolia.

That can be another flame war.

But let's put it shortly.   There are enormous fears in some of chinese'
heart, espacilly among educated chinese, that some people are stared at
our country with Not-So-Kind eye. Last 150+ yrs history told us. At least,
Korea war was one example.   A lot of hated-or-loved postings in the USENET
were provided so (one could find some in SCK either). Those fears are enlarged
by the recent situation in EX-USSR.

I am not saying that other countries are conspiring to support Tibet
Independece to undermine China.

 Things are became complicted by the CCP's bad reputation. Sterotype like, you
guys were brainwashed, communisim's propaganda, ...etc, make our
even-right-standing become hard to be accepted.

> Some even suggested taking
>Vietname, old Soviet Far East and entire Mongolia. This is clear from
>Leon Z. Lee's posting on this topic (He said ROC has the right to claim
>present Mongolia, what about Mongol's wish and their self-determination).

I understood that he was talking about ROC has never accepted the Independence
of Outer Mongolia though I can be very wrong. Of course, it is out of questions
for claiming Outer Mongolia.

Actually, this is also another example of Chinese people's fear about forced
separation of China by foreign powers though *forced* can be explained
by many ways. As they did to us in different.

This is also a clear signal for those who have a ill-mind against China.
How wild or dangerous those Nationalism can be.

As for national self-determinati on, I may mentioned you one thing to consider.
In Korea, for example, in 1950, if every thing followd the truth : national
*self-determination*, then the whole Korea would have been under communism
control. (No flame, Please)  There would not have any so called *UN force*,
chinese people's valunteers army, 38th paralle, etc.  There were only one
united Korea under Kim II Sang (?) control since 1950s.   Indeed, a sad story.

However, this is not to say that national self-determination is bad.  It
is only shown that there is a bad side either.  That's why some people have
different opinion about it both in Asia and Europe.

>The young generation of Chinese now are no different from Deng Xiao-ping,
>as long as treating minorities or neighboring states.

Let see from another view.  How big differece Deng's view from yours as long
as treating people ?  Doesn't matter minoroties or majority !

Let me tell you another sad story. It is told by a old man to me this summer.
It was about during WWII, there were a lot of Korean cooperating or working
for Japanese empire's army in Manchuri area.  Those Korean accomplices were
doing many hamful things to Chinese people as what Japanese Empire's army did.
They were called Gao1 Li4 Bang1 Zi3 by Chinese. (Gao1 Li4 means Korean, Bang1
Zi3 means accomplices).

>Having improved Chinese economy may change their mentality someday, but
>I am afraid that it is more than 50 years away. In the mean time, 
>we are dealing with old man in the new clothes.

Yes, the mentaliy is needed being changed. Doesn't matter what kind of
clothes PEOPLE have.  At least, your statement has proved so.

>Tibet was taken because of its strategic importance, I heard.

That's certaily a Lying!!! I just don't understand why people intended to
accept lying easily than truth.  Maybe it has a beautiful coat. But history
can not be changed.   Pal,  learn more history if your school book is not good
enough,  go to library.  But don't bother to tell me you read a one from
*wisdom publication house*..

>Remember how strategically important Korea is to Chinese.
                                      ^^^^^       ^^^^^^^
 Yes, how strategically China is important for Korean.  Doesn't matter how
well Korea can beat China at both economics and playing Ping-pong.   :-)

Of couse, those ROC guys were over reacted when you guys broke away with
 them.   :-)

>It is quite possible that China could invade Korea for the same reason
>that they overran helpless Tibet 40 years ago.
>I noticed that China is dying to have that imperial glory they lost.
>Unfortunately for us living next to China, they may not care how they
>achieve it. This is evident from human rights abuse reported to the
>press.                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 You mean reprot about Kim II Song's human right abuses or current S.korea
 government ?

>There should be two principle to be observed in East Asia if
>we all want to live as peaceful neighbors.
>  (1) Democracy 
>  (2) Self-Determination

  I would add another one: self respects.

>The reason that (2) has to be observed is that as long as some ethnic group
>is living under oppression, there is no real democracy.
>For example, South Africa is democartic country as far as white people are
>concerned.

So where comes a South Africa country where only the *whites* are living ?



Regard,


Hao Jixiang