HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Forget the DACs. How can transports sound different?
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:29:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <30590@castle.ed.ac.uk>, sss@castle.ed.ac.uk (S S Sturrock)
wrote:
> These `claims' have been highly tested, differences in transports are well
> documented.  They are due to deviation from the standards set down for
> various reasons.  Rise/fall times of the pulses in the SP/DIF data stream
> are known to affect the sound significantly.  Incompatibilities in the
> amplitude of signals used/expected between transport and DAC can adversely
> affect the sound.

This seems like something that might have merit. However, I haven't seen
any ad copy touting the excellence of some transport's compliance with
SP/DIF standards. The usually talk is of 'stability' and 'torque' and
'positive disc clamping' -- stuff used to justify bloated price tags for
something that could be achieved at much lower prices (as long as no one
badly screws up the engineering).

>Civilisation is a Haggis Supper with salt and sauce and a bottle of Irn Bru.

Well, call me a savage and keep your sheep innards off my plate! Do you
know how high in cholesterol that stuff is? ;-)

-Kerry

 P.S.: I have no idea what 'Irn Bru' is, but that sounds a whole lot more
promising!
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:10:26 EST
From: <ASOLOMO@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: SALE: Sony Digital Preamp

     Price drop on Sony 1000 digital preamp: The first $445 takes it.
     Or make an offer -- I'm in a mood to deal. This pre cost $1,000 new,
     and is in absolutely mint condition.
                                    ASOLOMO@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: MOSFET power amps?
Date: 23 Jan 93 03:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1993Jan23.035500.13795
Distribution: rec
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <MJKOBB.93Jan20201400@media-lab.media.mit.edu> mjkobb@media.mit.edu (Michael J Kobb) writes:
>
>  I was wondering if any of the audiophile companies have employed a
>similar approach to home audio amps to get a warmer, more tube-like
>tone out of their hardware, without the extra size, heat, expense,
>etc. of tubes. 

Back in the mid 80's a company called "New York Audio Labs" went
even one step better - they mated tube driver stages to MOSFET
power transistors, and came out with the MOSCODE series of
power amplifiers.  Very nice sound, with the warmth of tubes
and MOSFETS and none of the negatives of high power tubes.  They
are still available used...the Moscode 300 being the most common
unit sells in the $350-600 range depending on condition and 
modifications.  It puts out 150 WPC and is a sweet amp.  The 
Moscode 600 is a bit rarer, rated at 300 WPC and goes in the $500-900
range.

In newer stuff some of the Soundcraftsmen amps use Mosfets, as
does the NAD 208, and the Madison Fielding amps use Mosfet
power transistors with tube/hybrid driver stages.  Even some
of the Hafler stuff is Mosfet, and affordable.


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dmongrai@gandalf.ca (Dan Mongrain)
Subject: Re: Seeking "Color Bar" sound to light device.
Organization: Gandalf Data Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:08:08 GMT

In <5225@wet.UUCP> steve@wet.COM (Steve Meloan) writes:

>I'm looking for a device, quite common in the 60's and 70's, known as a
>"color bar," or "color organ."  This was an electronic gadget, who's input
>was an audio signal, and who's output was an accordingly modulated 120
>volt electrical current.  It's purpose was to create audio driven "light
>shows," sort of a pre-Laserium.  Usually, the audio was filtered into three
>eletrical outputs - one for bass, one for mid-range, and one for treble.  A
>version even existed for the car.     

>Anyone knowing of where I might locate one, please contact me at:
>steve@wet.com.  Thanks.

Some electronic stores sell them in kit form.  3 channel, 1500 W setups for
$70 canadian (~$55 US).  Active Components in Ottawa had a kit available during
the Xmas break.  Kit includes a PC board, 3 120v outlets, 4 pots (1 master + 3
channels), innards and case.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dave@news.ccutah.edu (Dave Martin)
Subject: Re: Bose Speakers
Reply-To: dave@csulx.weber.edu
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: tp
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:09:55 GMT

So how does all of this reflect (;-)) on the Mirage speakers?
How do the Bose (mis)use reflected sound that gets them bashed and
how do the mirages use it that gets them praised?

dave@csulx.weber.edu (ignore the header address, its probably wrong)

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: Digital critics - sampling argument is nonsense
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:12:52 GMT

In article <otterw.727690409@hpas5> otterw@prl.philips.nl (otter den w) writes:
>zellers@22_clancy.manassas.ibm.com (Cevin M Zellers ) writes:
>

>>If I can tell the difference, I may just have to scrap my CD's and plug in
>>the old vinyl player until you guys pull the sampling frequency out another
>>50 KHz!

>Just a silly question: does the 'good old' vinyl player permit
>frequencies as high as 20 kHz? As a rough estimation: suppose the
>needle reads a 78 rpm (as I said, good old) disc at 20 cm (8
>inch) from the center. A 20 kHz frequency then corresponds to a
>spatial resolution of 13 micrometer. My impression is that that
>signal is too small to be even detected by a mechanical needle.
>

'Good old' vinyl can have frequencies up to 50kHz.  The CD-4 system
required a 45kHz response to be able to decode the rear information.

When talking with a engineer at Micro Acoustics many years ago, I was
found that their electret cartridges were able to resolve 1/2 micron
variations.

We can resolve finer things with mechanical apparatus than we can with
lasers as used in CD's and LD units.


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill@bilver.uucp
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: CD player through old amplifier sounds terrible
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:17:04 GMT

In article <C17HJs.BHA@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> besson@vill.edu (Morgan Besson) writes:
>Today I plugged my Sony portable CD player into a vintage 1965 solid state
>amplifier (Lafayette 125T) and it sounded awful.  This is not a terrible
>amp, and I tested it with a tuner and it sounds fine.  I tried the CD
>at various inputs, with different speakers, headphones, etc., but it
>was always the same.  There is no brilliance to the sound.  It's like
>an AM broadcast.
>
>Is there any known problem with this setup?  Thanks in advance for replies.

You didn't plug the CD into the phono input did you?

-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill@bilver.uucp
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Who, besides SONY, makes MINIDISC machines?!?!
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:41:59 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas

Does anyone know what other companies besides Sony make MiniDisc machines?

Anyone know what other companies plan on making some, and when they are
expected to be released?

I'm waiting for some competition so prices will fall.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jmm7076@ultb.isc.rit.edu (J.M. Maurer)
Subject: Subwoffer Suggestions
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:42:03 GMT

Folx, 

	Currently I have a small system, Onkyo TX-901, Bose 210 Series
II's and I will eventually upgrade.  What I am looking for is a good sub
woffer that can survive my upgrade.  I have been looking at the Valodyne
VA-1012.  I seems to have good sound with the disks that I have tested
it with. Hopefully I can test one with a similar system to mine in
March.  Do you have any suggestions for a sub in the $0 - $700 range.

Thanx in advance

Jim.
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Anti-aliasing on the recording end?
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:39:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1993Jan23.073000.13305@news.columbia.edu>,
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) wrote:
> >I doubt you would want to simply "discard" the extra samples.  You then would
> >lose the advantage of oversampling!  I assume you mean you would digitally
> >filter down to 44.1...
> 
> The point is that by running the sampling clock X times faster, you
> can use fewer poles on the *analog* side and use a smoother slope
> filter.  Digital filtering is more a concern in anti-imaging filters
> (plauyback) than on anti-aliasing filters.  On playback, oversampling

First let's make sure we distinguish between 'oversampling' and running at
higher sampling rates. Oversampling is a playback method that generates
artificially interpolated samples between the data points that are already
given. If you record at a higher sampling rate, however, you've got more
real data.

The advantage of recording with a higher sampling rate is that you don't
need steep analog input filters. But this does mean that there can be
frequencies greater than 22.05 emmbedded within the data stream. So you
can't just throw away the extra samples. The data has to be processed to
remove the higher frequencies.

I understand the principles involved fairly well. I asked the question
about anti-aliasing on the recording end to find out how it was done in
practice.

-Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Thiele cs2.2 opinions wanted...
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:42:54 GMT

In article <1jtatuINNmds@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) writes:
|> 
|> Hello, my neigbor is buying new speakers, he has narrowed his choice
|> down to three:
|> 1. paradigm studio monitor
|> 2. vandersteen 2ce
|> 3. thiele cs2.2
|>  
|> he's got a great quote on the thiele's ($1950) and asked me
|> to post hear for opinions (no pun intended...)
|> he can't hear them until they arrive, and he has to order
|> them first, meanwhile he's got the other two to think about
|> so I'm gathering 'experience' for him.
|>  
|> thank you for taking time to respond (if you do :)
|> n.e.d.

The Thiels image very nicely - very large soundstage, but the 
Paradigm and Vandersteen also image quite well as well. The
2.2s do not have the low freq. (bass) response that the Paradigm and
Vandersteen have though.

Speaker buying is very subjective - he should not buy speakers
without hearing them first, under any circumstances. I think
your neighbour is better of choosing amoung the 2 speakers
he can hear. Both The Export Monitors and 2CE are excllent speakers.
From: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:51:20 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <106062@netnews.upenn.edu>,
hoford@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (John Hoford) writes:
|>
|>If I want a High quality recording system. that stands
|>a chance of comming down in price. 
|>That can offer cheap prerecorded media.
|>Then MD or DCC are it.
|>both can be made cheper than RDAT.
|>both players can be made cheper than RDAT
|>current prices are heigh because its new.

Certainly the media for MD and DCC can be made cheaper than pre-recorded RDATs,
but don't be so sure that SDAT (i.e., DCC) players can necessarily be made
cheaper than RDAT players.  VCRs don't cost very much these days, and they're
the same technology as RDAT.

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Anti-aliasing on the recording end?
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:50:01 GMT

In article <shetline-230193113049@128.89.19.90> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
>
>First let's make sure we distinguish between 'oversampling' and running at
>higher sampling rates. Oversampling is a playback method that generates
>artificially interpolated samples between the data points that are already
>given. If you record at a higher sampling rate, however, you've got more
>real data.

Two things:  Most authorities (translation: Pohlman, et al.) refer to the
process of running the clock higher on record as oversampling, mainly
because the idea of doing so is similar to the "real" oversampling on 
playback, the purpose of both being to reduce the need for ring-prone
brick wall filters, etc.

>The advantage of recording with a higher sampling rate is that you don't
>need steep analog input filters. But this does mean that there can be
>frequencies greater than 22.05 emmbedded within the data stream. So you
>can't just throw away the extra samples. The data has to be processed to
>remove the higher frequencies.

Well, yes, but the process of returning the signal to its original sampling
rate is usually accomplished thru dexcimation (consisting of two parts
usually:  digital filtering and sampling rate decrease (undersampling).
There are many ways to do the digital LPF which I won't get into.  I guess
I didn't make myself quite clear before when I said "it gets decimated and
discarded," in as much as I meant that the process of decimation involves
reducing the high-frequency content that the low order analog filter left
behind.

There are of course other ways to do this now...there's delta-sigma (1 bit)
and other noise shaping techniques that can do it, and some people have gone
back to higher-order analog filters that are very well-made (and very
expensive) as an alternative to oversampling.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: sss@castle.ed.ac.uk (S S Sturrock)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Free CD's....was something else.
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:39:10 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <185127@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>   Speaking of good/bad CD's...
>
>   Have you listened to any of those free CD's that come with the
>   British Hi-Fi magazines?  

Yeah.
>
>   Are any of them consistently good, bad, or horrid?

Well, I got a Virgin one and there is nothing much I like on there, the
sound is pretty uninteresting too.  On the other hand I got a Chandos disc
and this has a rather nice sound but the disc died due to laser rot.  Pity
that, the only track I really liked (the first one) now makes blipping
noises, ho hum, where's my turntable........?
>
>   Or should I just save my money?

Buy the mags because you are interested in the articles, the CD is just a
bonus, don't think you are getting anything special, record companies are
not in the habit of giving good stuff away for next to nothing even though
the CDs cost bugger all to produce.

Then again, I tend to object to buying UK (or US) hifi mags anyway, I don't
pay 3 quid or so for 80% advertisments for cheap JVC/Technics/Sony tat
thankyou very much.

Now if you are really interested in reading about hifi and learning
something more than what the latest gee wizz format is and how much you
will gain/lose if you dump your existing equipment etc............

Shane Sturrock, UK Editor, Positive Feedback, 
The Journal of the Oregon Triode Society.


-- 
Shane Sturrock, Biocomputing Research Unit, Darwin Building, Mayfield Road,
University of Edinburgh, Scotland, Commonwealth of Independent Kingdoms.  :-)

Civilisation is a Haggis Supper with salt and sauce and a bottle of Irn Bru.
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.music.phish
From: tpearson@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Trevor Pearson)
Subject: Re: type III tapes
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:26:03 GMT

monitn@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Nicholas Monitto) writes:
> falcon@camelot.bradley.edu (D. Nathan Hood) writes:
> 
> >to the best of my knowledge type III tapes are the kind that are used to
> >record a video signal, like VHS and Betamax... if i am wrong please let me
> >know... i have asked this question before and have never really gotten a
> >straigh answer...
> >--
> 
> Type III was an audio tape back many years ago. It (obviously) fell between II
> (CrO2) and IV ('metal'), and I believe was some kind of hybrid of the two. It
> fell out of use some time ago, and has no individual support on today's gear.
> As far as I know it has nothing to do with video tape.
> 
>

Type III was FeCr (Ferrochrome) a two layer tape using both Feric oxide
and chromium dioxide layers as the name implies. On most decks that had
a FeCr position they used normal bias with chrome EQ. The tapes I have
work very well when properly optimized but they are not amajor
improvement such as metal. I don't think the world needed another tape
type with minimal advantages so they promptly fell by the wayside when
metal tapes were introduced. Also the improvements in type I tapes such
as cobolt doping and the introduction of chrome equivalents such as TDK
super avilyn took away the advantages of producing a two layer tape
which would have cost more.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: The Bose flame war
Date: 20 Jan 93 20:26:52 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <C14wK0.8wt@world.std.com> DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce) writes:

>What about Dr. Bose's well established history of agreeing to engage in a
>fair technical debate, then, when he is repeatedly cornered about the
>shaky technology and dubious sound of his products, rather than retrorting
>on technical groudn, he responds with "I'll have my lawyers deal with you!"?
  
  Or even worse, when a mid-fi consumer oriented magazine actually
  suggested that the playback imaging of his infamous 901's
  forcefully ingested canal-water, he actually sued them.
  [Well, the descriptive phrase was more along the lines of "music
   wandering all over the room..."]


[someone else...]>
>>  If you can say nothing else about Bose, at least it's a company
>>that is continually trying out new ideas and coming up with
>>innovative products.  That, of course, is always conveniently
>>ignored in this forum.

   No it's not ignored.  But history is full of examples of very
   brilliant people and very brilliant ideas and products which were
   pretty laughable.  Even Thomas Edison bit the dust a few
   times...particularly before Telsa bailed him out.

   The problem with Amar Bose is that his ego is located directly
   between his ears and his brain...and it is directly connected to
   his pocketbook.


From: tony@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Tony Marriott)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 00:19:25 GMT
Subject: Liquid Cooled Speakers?
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.audio

I have some speakers which claim that the tweeters are "liquid
cooled". Can anyone out there help me understand what this
means and how this effects the sound that the speakers
generate? I assume that this process should somehow make the 
speakers sound better. Or does it just allow the speakers to
be more efficient, prolong the life of the speakers, or what?

-Tony-
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: kong@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kong Kritayakirana)
Subject: Re: Why would CD carousel sound worse than single-play?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 00:04:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.122954.29893@microsoft.com> davidl@microsoft.com (David Long) writes:
>However, I'm still interested in knowing if there are technical
>limitations to the carousel platter approach that degrade the 
>sound compared to a single-play drawer.  Are there?

NO

Kong
From: dcb@sequoia.wpi.edu (David Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Enough w/LP v.s. CD!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:20:37 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sequoia.wpi.edu

I agree. Im tired of The World vs. Bose, and LP vs. CD.

New Question: 
  Anyone have any suggestions about good Tuners?
  I'd like a remote control, and good sound.
  Willing to spend up to $800.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. D. C. Brown, AI Research Group,     DCB@CS.WPI.EDU    Phone: (508) 831-5618
CS Dept, WPI, Worcester, MA 01609, USA.                   FAX:   (508) 831-5776
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: penfold@rock.concert.net (Patricia A White -- Oxford University Press -- MIS)
Subject: Problems with Nakamichi Cassette Deck 2
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:35:45 GMT


I tried playing a tape the other day and found that the thing just
wouldn't work.  The play indication light went on for about one second
and then went out as the deck just failed to work.  I checked all the
obvious exterior connections, even flipping the deck-1/deck-2 switch
in the back a couple of times.  Now, when I power the deck up, it
automatically starts playing -- unless I have a cassette in there.
Then it tries to play but fails.  The credit-card-induced-extra-
warranty just expired a few months ago so I have no qualms about
opening it up myself.  The problem is I've never opened up a cassette
deck before.  Does anybody have any suggestions or estimates on how to
repair such a problem?

Thanks!
-Patricia
 penfold@rock.concert.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity.  Those who would
like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity."  --Nietzsche
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again (was Re: Preamp and Amp)
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:11:35 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan26.174004.11597@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>
>You can only laugh if a) you have heard a high quality turntable setup
>and b) still found its imaging to be 'laughable'. 
>
   c. Have heard this supercilious pair of statements just once too
      often.                                     


Newsgroups: rec.audio