HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: MISC: Comics Readers' Ages (was Re: PAD & Pros)
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:53:25 GMT

daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>In rec.arts.comics.misc, lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu (Glenn Carnagey) writes:
>> evolution, you'll need it.  But this is the wrong newsgroup for any of
>> this, no wonder PAD hates us :^).

>He can't possibly hate you.  You pay his bills.

>I wonder what the moral consequences of an "artist" having 
>contempt for his audience might be...

Well, in Hollywood they usually make you a director.
-- 
%VAX-F-PROBRNFRIED, processor brain fried (extra crispy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer)
Subject: Re: President at Superman's Funeral
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:20:15 GMT

In article <1i9vpoINN6h3@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> kens@psc.lsa.umich.edu (Ken Small) writes:
>John Switzer (jrs@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: I saw an AP wire story that quoted someone from DC who admitted that they
>: were gambling Clinton was going to be President. Hmmm, wonder how many 
>: of the DC execs voted for Clinton? Probably a lot more than the overall 
>: 43% nationwide!
>
>How do you figure?  If they went by polls alone, they'd have been
>right, especially since the lead time put the deadline right around
>the time when Clinton's lead was really solid.

In retrospect that's true, but there have been a LOT of "solid" leads
that wafted away by the time of the election. I just suspect that there
was some nail biting at DC because in addition to the usual election 
nail bitings, the DC editors knew they'd end up with major egg on their faces
if Clinton didn't win. (P.S. "tongue in cheek" is applicable to this 
whole discussion.)
-- 
John Switzer               | "What we have here is a failure to 
                           | masticate."
Compuserve: 74076,1250     | -- MST3K's Dr. Clayton "Firebrand" Forrester, 
Internet: jrs@netcom.com   | after TV's Frank is unable to eat his 13th turkey.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: Cerebus #165
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:27:44 GMT

Actually, I'm not so sure if the point of M&D is that feminists are not worthy 
of power (although Sim may or may not hold that as a personal belief).  Rather 
that NO ONE who gets power is really suited to use it wisely.  The old woman 
brought this up quite well in #164, the idea that those most likely to gain 
power are those most willing to abuse it in order to get more.  She says all 
women are telepathic to a degree, but oddly enough the ones who gain power are 
less-than-perfect specimens (specifems?) willing to claw their way to the top. 
Go figure.
     As Douglas Adams pointed out, anyone who wants to rule should on no 
account be allowed to do so.  Unfortunately, they usually do.
     Dave Van Domelen, does using Schwatrzkopf's name mean Sim thinks the good 
general is a cross-dressing feminist?
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: IMAGE: WildCATS #3...!
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.224345.10370@cs.unca.edu>, mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
> 
> #3 was great -- the story continues as 400,000 characters mix it
> up in a brawl. 
>...
> As always, the plot takes a back seat to the art. It's nice to see
> Jim Lee drawing Youngblood -- they're pretty darn impressive
> with him. 

Uh, you hit my main gripe on the head.  400K characters, and the plot is
secondary to the art.  I could not keep track of the good guys and the bad
guys, let alone the Youngbleeders.

Image No-Prize time:  Who can explain where Maul's wings/horns go when he's
facing away from you?  There's only there when you view him from above/front.

Joel
-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
"We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
  -- from _Sneakers_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jelmore@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Elmore)
Subject: A little anti-feminist? (Re: Cerebus #165  <SPOILERS!!>)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 21:00:32 GMT

In article <57FO02qB310k01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.235155.25322@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:
>
>>BTW, you forgot to mention how the Pigts are turning into a female-dominated
>>society.  This is significant.
>
>Not only a female-dominated society, but a martial one (the women with
>spears who attacked the swordsman is significant.

Is it me, or do the majority of "female-dominated"/"Amazon" socieites
presented in science fiction seeem to be even more violent and restrictive
than our society appears to be? (Let's leave out observations on the
Middle East, or L.A., please...)

I remember an episode of some sci-fi TV show where a family ended up in a
parallel reality, and had to follow a line of "gates" or something to try
to get home. In this episode, they ran into a female-dominated society
where men were virtual slaves. Do we REALLY treat women that poorly in
society?

There's also an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation ("Angel One")
where some people from the Federation crash on a planet with a
matriarchial society. The men are also in a state of slavery, and when the
refugees try to change things, they are branded criminals and sentenced to
death. Yeesh!

Any other examples of fascist feminist societies? How about more
"enlightened" ones?

Jay (=
From: det@phlan.sw.stratus.com (David Toland)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: CV Extra : Superman to return in 2 weeks
Date: 8 Jan 1993 18:05:13 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: phlan.sw.stratus.com

In article <1ik7oqINNaeo@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cn577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine) writes:
[
No-one is talking for sure about the clone rumor, but artwork of
a familiar but faceless Superman has gone out to distributors as
samples.  Martin Stever of Capital City distribution said that the
current rumor was "that there will be four clones," Caucasian,
Hispanic, Asian, and African American, introduced in April.
]

<GGaghhh>!  How tacky and blitheringly pseudo-PC!  I sure as hell hope
this rumor is false.

Or maybe all 4 look like Michael Jackson <duck> :-)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions are MINE MINE MINE, and not necessarily anyone else's.
det@phlan.sw.stratus.com   |  "Laddie, you'll be needin' something to wash
                           |  that doon with."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jordan@castor (Jet Jaguar)
Subject: IMAGE: Jim Valentino -- what's the deal?
Summary: I don't get it.
Keywords: He's such a pompous irritant.  I'd like to slap his creamy head. 
Organization: University of Georgia
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 06:37:24 GMT


Okay, from what I understand of Image, the idea is this: Really popular
artists from Marvel books get to make up their own characters and write
AND draw their own books, making sure to include frequent crossovers with
each other to build up their own Image universe.

My question is this:  How does Jim Valentino (I think that's his name)
creator of ShadowHawk, fit into this?  What's the story on this guy?  Was
he a big-name writer/artist with any of the other companies?  How did he
get included in this whole Image deal?

The reason I'm asking is because I just mistakenly read ShadowHawk number
1.  (My brother bought it.  Honest.)  I expected the writing to be bad, but
this was too much!  I haven't been to New York City in some time, granted,
but since when did Soho turn into a seedy dangerous part of town?  Even
the guys at Wizard (the most fanboy comics magazine of them all) were ragging
on this part!  And even if you're into the whole Liefeld/McFarlane/etc/etc
school of art, I don't see how you could be impressed with the art on this
book.  It was completely juvenile and adolescent.  The whole thing just
seemed like "My First Comic Book."  I was amazed that it was put out by a
real, professional comics company.  (Even if it is Image.)

Seriously.  I'm not posting just to rag on the guy, I want to know what the
story is.  Who is he?  How did he get to be so  popular?  How did he get
to work at Image?  Did he used to work for Marvel or something?  Is he another
of the "hot artists?"  Answer me!!

Chuck

-- 
                  Chuck Jordan | jordan@castor.cs.uga.edu
"It's for you, McGruff."
"Did you hear what he called me?  I HATE that!  Let's sneak up into his
room and drain all the liquid out of his body."		-- Sam & Max
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Swamp Thing #128 
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 07:44:20 EST

moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime) writes:

> In <ic0qwB11w165w@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca> panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Hol
> >You can't borrow someone else's personal visions.
> 
> Actually, I think you've picked a remarkably bad example for this argument.
> I really, really enjoyed Rick Veitch's run on SWAMP THING after Moore left
> the book; but I think Veitch, for the most part, borrowed Moore's visions
> and ideas.  Certainly he mixed in a few of his own, and his own style; but
> the direction of the book drifted only a bit.
> 
I would argue that Veitch built on Moore's vision, but did it with a 
vision of his own that is distinct.  He didn't just do the same thing 
Moore was doing over and over, he took Moore's situation and took it in a 
new direction.  That's original.

Namaste,
Elizabeth


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jordan@castor (Jet Jaguar)
Subject: Re: Is IMAGE worth reading?
Organization: University of Georgia
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:23:08 GMT

rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>"Not a total waste" and "alright but...nothing special" translate to
>>not worth picking up.  So the question is whether you meant that Savage
>>Dragon is or isn't worth reading.  (How strong a recommendation is 'decent'?)
>
>IF you like unabashed superhero stuff with a minimum of angst I'd say
>take a look.

Hey, I hate to sound dense, but I just don't get this book (SAVAGE DRAGON.)
Now, is it supposed to be funny or not?  If it is, I'm surprised because I
wouldn't expect the Image guys to be that subtle.  If not, then this is the
GOOFIEST book I've ever read.  A green-skinned police officer with a huge
fin on his head?  It seems like parody, but...

USENET's Chuck

-- 
                  Chuck Jordan | jordan@castor.cs.uga.edu
"It's for you, McGruff."
"Did you hear what he called me?  I HATE that!  Let's sneak up into his
room and drain all the liquid out of his body."		-- Sam & Max
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jelmore@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Elmore)
Subject: Re: *Comics* Implosion Imminent
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 06:29:59 GMT

In article <1id7q1INNl7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> omni@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Omniscient fool) writes:
>
>Marvel isn't as stupid as we'd like to think.
>A Marvel implosion is indeed coming, and I'm sure they know it.
>The thing is, it will be wider than just a Marvel implosion...
>Lots of DC and independant books will bite the dust either when
>fanboys are spending all their bucks on Marvels or when everyone
>gets sick of it and cuts way back on their buying habits.
>
>When the smoke clears 2099 and Marvel UK won't exist, but neither
>will some Image titles, DC books like Team Titans, and several
>small publishing companies will be DOA.  Meanwhile Spiderman,
>Hulk and the X-Dudes will keep Marvel swinging - with less competision
>than ever.

Gee... I'd think a Marvel implosion would be because everybody who wants to
read something other than fanboy fare would desert Marvel; the resulting
DC books and independants would only profit from Marvel's loss.
(I mean, I can't see _everybody_ only reading Spiderman and the X-titles...)

Jay (=

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: New Titans #94
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:30:34 GMT

Why am I still reading this trash?  Is it because this many years of loyalty
can't be shrugged off easily, or is it because #100 is a nice round number?
This issue is trash, with little or nothing to recommend it.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
 Are full of passionate intensity." -- W.B. Yeats

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: sasha@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (David A. Tumarkin)
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Lucien's Library
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:10:41 GMT

Neil Gaiman's "Superman Goes To Hell" Story

THE FURTHER PROPHESIES OF AGNES NUTTER, WITCH

ROBIN HOOD, OR THE COMEDY OF SHERWOOD and THE TRAGORICAL HISTORY OF KING 
ARTHUR (PARTS I-V) from Shakespeare


                                        - Sasha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Though the fruits of crime bear bitter seaweed, the sea cucumbers of 
 crime makes a killer salad."
                                      - Dr. Calamari in the DC/Marvel
                                        Crossover with Suicide Squid
                                        and Archangler in THE DEVIL,
                                        THE ANGEL, AND THE DEEP BLUE
                                        SEA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andrewf@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Andrew Fong)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: IMAGE: WildCATS #3...!
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:33:21 +1100
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.42bis
NNTP-Posting-Host: kralizec.zeta.org.au

mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:

>Image, ya gotta love it. They make good comics :)

>WC #3 is no exception. Image, at least Jim Lee, is responding to the
>flak about late, late, late, late comics by splitting the final
>WC limited series into two issues, #3 and #4. (#4 is to have
>new artwork by new talents submitting to Homage Studios as well as a
>preview of Larry Stroman's _Tribe_ for Image.)

Yep, definitely nice to see that Jim is paying attention to the public.


>As always, the plot takes a back seat to the art. It's nice to see
>Jim Lee drawing Youngblood -- they're pretty darn impressive
>with him. Each panel is suitable for framing. The cover is inked
>by Rob Liefeld, re-inforcing my belief he should be an inker and not
>a penciler/writer/etc. Beautiful colors throughout.

I found that Jim Lee drawing Young Blood shows just how weak they are
in terms of design. Jim's characters are much more detailed and dynamic,
something I don't see in Rob's art and design, unfortunately I found
Youngblood excrutiatingly dull. Even Rob's inking managed to take the 
edge off Jim's usually very clean and vibrant art, instead the whole
front page was a dull mishmash of body parts that I didn't realise
was Wild C.A.T.S until I saw the title.

Definitely one of the better Image titles, but I hope that the 
monthly series has better pacing as the current mini-series
feels like watching Terminator II from the middle.

					Andrew

*----------------------------------------------------------*
|  Andrew Fong -- itinerent student and programmer         |
|               andrewf@kralizec.zeta.org.au               |
*----------------------------------------------------------*
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: When was the destruction of Daxam?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 20:48:50 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1993Jan12.200941.25172@pbhyc.PacBell.COM> djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes) writes:
>In article <C0pM1x.5vp@HQ.Ileaf.COM> tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway) writes:
>
>You have to destroy it at *LEAST* twice to get rid of it for good.
>
>That's why Earth is still around in the 64th century after being
>"irrevocably" destroyed in the 30th. . .

	Nah.  R.J. Brande is going to build Earth-2  ;-).  It may take 
a long time, but eventually, he'll build it.  (Or his heirs)  
Not a problem.
-- 
Rick Jones              "People come back from the dead all the time.  I mean,
albert@bcm.tmc.edu       I've come back from the dead.  I bet you have to!"
Systems Support Center  "Well... Yes, I have.  But I AM a professional."
Voice: 713-798-7352          -Rick Jones and Dr Strange, Incredible Hulk #399
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Cerebus #165  <SPOILERS!!>
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:17:21 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1993Jan8.235155.25322@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei) writes:

>BTW, you forgot to mention how the Pigts are turning into a female-dominated
>society.  This is significant.

Not only a female-dominated society, but a martial one (the women with
spears who attacked the swordsman is significant).

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC: Color me Dark & Streets
Date: 4 Jan 1993 18:58:11 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Greg Clow (ecurrent@zooid.guild.org) writes:

>As for "Streets"... never heard of it.  What's the story?  Writer?  Artist?

Four-issue prestige format, I believe, about people working (and some living)
on the streets of San Francisco.  Written by James Hudnall (Alpha Flight,
ESPers/Interface, Strikefore:Morituri), art by I Forget (might be Dan
Brereton).  CBG listed it on indefinite hold about a month ago, I think, just
after it was announced in Direct Currents.

------------------------------
                             |     "What's that noise?" I asked Val.  "Sounds
Jim Drew                     | like an electric razor."
jrd@frame.com                |     "Ron's shaving," I was told.
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       |     "Shaving?  Ron?  The guy who thinks everyone
"Innocent, but not naive."   | would look better with a beard, even Madonna?"
B(2)h t c k s g+(p) rv p e   |     "Who said anything about shaving his
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | *beard?*" Val said, and scratched idly at his
{opinions: mine != frame's}  | chest.
                             |		- Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"
From: marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: What Acme stands for
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:02:48 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Edinburgh University

My sister came up with this years ago, and I thought it was a rather
nice definition of ACME:

A Company Making Everything

Simple isn't it?

Anybody got any alternatives?

	Mark

-- 
      "We all want to be Obi Wan Kenobi,       \ Mark Steyn :          \
  But there's a little Darth Vader in us all"   \ marks@castle.ed.ac.uk \
           Chris, Northern Exposure              \ mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     \
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: LNH: Calling Sidewinder
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:29:05 GMT

Sorry about this, but I'm not sure if Mark reads aclnh, and when I tried to 
email him by replying to a post it bounced.  Currently Sidewinder has been 
undergoing heavy use, first by myself and now by Phipps, and we need to know 
how he should be written.  Please respond on a.c.lnh if you can, or by email if
not.
     Dave Van Domelen, prefers his interpretation of Sidewinder over the otehr 
recent ones...plbt.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle)
Subject: Re: Is IMAGE worth reading?
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Boyz from the Dwarf
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:59:00 GMT

In article <gipper.1-070193202551@hesmac22.hesburgh.lab.nd.edu>, gipper.1@nd.edu (The Gipper) writes...
>I haven't read any of the Image titles yet.  Are there any worth picking
>up?  I refuse to read anythng written by McFarlane.

	Wildcats (Jim Lee's book) isn't too bad. It's not deep, but it's not
a total waste like Youngblood or Shadowhawk. Savage Dragon is the best of the
bunch: it's got decent writing, believable text and plots, and good artwork.
Supreme is alright, but it's nothing special. Pitt and Wetworks still haven't
materialized.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the terminal of Joe Delisle      |                                    |
| jdelisle@loyola.edu  (preferred)      |    "Home is where the hell is."    |
| jdelisle@cs.loyola.edu                |                                    |
|              "I was up above it, but now I'm down in it"                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Futuristic Pseudocussing
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 07:46:27 GMT

In article <DAN.93Jan8152254@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu> dan@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter) writes:
>"Shock" being from "Future Shock" strikes me as a bit strange.  Where
>do people get the idea that in the future, people will be so
>self-aware about it?  
>  Did people in the dark ages stand around
>saying "My god, the dark ages are awful"?  No.  There's little reason
>to assume that in the future, people will be any more self-aware.
>
Well, I can sadly say that Future Shock is alive and well.  My brother, 
thirteen years older, calls me from Chicago to Peoria, in the midst of my 
vacation, to set up his fax, his computer, his printer, his answering machine,
and a few other sordid items on the same line.  In an instant, I ripped open
the boxes, and set it up, without glancing at the manuals.  It just came 
naturally to me, me an English major.  They watched mutely as everything 
came together.  When I was done, I was about to go out, when my brother 
cornered me, and asked me how did it all work.  I set up some crude batch 
files, and left for school.  He called yesterday, and expressed a problem 
that, had I been there, I would have solved in an instant.  But for the 
life of me, I had NO idea how to describe how to do it to him.  I was 
speaking Modern English, and he was speaking Etruscan. $1200 worth of hardware
on his desk, and he's afraid to monkey with it, like I did, because he KNOWS
he'll "shock" it up if he touches it.  ANd TRUST me, it will...
	Don't get me started about my prents and the VCR...

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc