HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ishikawa@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Bread (Re: Instant Foods) [ENGLISH]
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:49:49 GMT
	<1992Jul14.063731.18709@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<SANTOS.92Jul15132150@melon.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp>
	<1992Jul16.055937.19725@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> <2054@aegis.or.jp>
	<1992Jul20.084920.20474@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp> 	<MARKD
Reply-To: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
Distribution: fj
Organization: Personal Media Corp., Tokyo Japan
In-reply-to: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp's message of 22 Jul 92 05:56:38 GMT


Hi. Kuno-san.

>    Hmm, I'm not sure about how garlic bread you mention looks like,
>but I myself somtime paste garlic packed in a tube (easily found in
>most supermarket) onto sliced french bread, along with butters, and
>toast them.  I was calling them "garlic toasts."  Would you please
>explain more about your garlic breads?

It is exaclty garlic, with a little bit of parsley(?) sprinkled with
it, spread on the buttered french bread toast.
So this is essentially the same with yours. I have never thought of
using the garlic paste in tube. Maybe I should try cooking myself. 

>    By the way, I also prefer rye bread, but its a bit difficult
>to find nice one around my house...
>
>							Yasushi Kuno

	Where do you live? I live near Gotanda and there is a small
shop where I can buy very good onion bread (good only when you can buy
it in the morning.)


--
------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chiaki Ishikawa                       Phone:+81-3-5702-0351
  Personal Media Corp.                      FAX:+81-3-5702-0359
 MY Bldg, 1-7-7 Hiratsuka,   UUNET: ... uunet!pmcgw!ishikawa, or
 Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 142                ishikawa%pmcgw@uunet.uu.net
        JAPAN                JUNET:     ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Vegitables (Re: Pre-SakeReport) [ENGLISH/Gaijin stuff]
Date: 25 Jul 92 04:55:33 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

Hi, ...

magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:
> $B$=$&$G$9$M$(!#(JGrowing up in the years before complete liberalization
> of food imports in my country, I'm for instance completely dumbfounded
> over the vegetable section in an ordinary Japanese supermarket.
> So I divide them into two types: normal, and 'strange' vegetables...

    Oh, I really would like to know which of vegitables we encounter
at Japanese supermarkets are "normal" and which are "strange" from
your viewpoint.  For me, eggplants imported from (perhaps USA) are
not at all "egg", at least thoese of hen.  Maybe it might be that
of ostretch :-)

							Yasushi Kuno
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Pre-SakeReport (Re: Some cooking Q.) [ENGLISH]
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:14:27 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan

magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:
> Notice that "tonic water" is quite different from plain "soda water". 
> My guess is that "so-da sui" ($B%=!<%@?e(J?) is more of the latter type.

    Oh, I might have misunderstood everthing!  I thought "tonic water"
you mention as water with carbonic acid gas.  "Tansan-sui" in Japanese.
Then, what is the difference between "water" and "tonic water" and
"soda water?"  I have seen Canadian Dry bottle you mention too often,
but haven't bought one yet.
    Talking about foods you do not know with non-native languages
is quite difficult, isn't it?

							Yasushi Kuno
Xref: sparky fj.misc:352 fj.news.policy:178 fj.news.group:2485
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Instant Foods (Re: Pre-Noodle...) [ENGLISH]
Date: 25 Jul 92 08:51:32 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno) writes:

>     I remember my professor often mentiond that IBM selectric
>typewriter's key touch as the "best one."

IBM and other companies have spent a lot of time working on the feel
of the keyboard. I have three keyboards for IBM-clones and they are
all quite different from the ones for the NEC. A lot of it is what
you get used to, I suppose, but I feel comforatable with the kind that
go in a little way and then 'click' into place.

>     And we'd better hope IBM to produce "home washable" keyboards!

That would be great!

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana)
Subject: Re: There's-only-one-Truth-ism?
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Institute of Physical & Chemical Research (RIKEN) Saitama,Japan
            <2180@aegis.or.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:25:17 GMT


In article <2180@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.120712.5954@rkna50.riken.go.jp> I write:
>>This article from fj.misc is cross-posted to fj.soc.culture.
>
>I didn't see any cross-post in the Newsgroups: line so I left it as
>it was...

    Sorry, I am a new-comer to unix and the net-news system.  I got
a mistake and I had to post the article independently.

    [many lines on the psycho-analysis of "We Japanese" omitted,
     reference; <1992Jul27.120712.5954@rkna50.riken.go.jp> ]

>I have found one fairly reliable way to separate those who are
>actually trying to communicate from those who are just defending
>some pre-conceived position: ask questions. 
>
>It may sound too simple, but I've found that people who are
>communication have something they can talk about underneath their
>conclusions. While those who are only defending don't. Thus by
>asking questions until you get down to something concrete works a
>lot better than trying to give counter-examples. Once the full
>meaning, in concrete terms, has been reached, it's fairly easy to
>understand why somebody feels the way they do and one or the other
>or both people in the dialog can update their position! 

    It reminds me of the way of finding truth by European philosophers 
like Socrates or De Cartes.  Questions after questions to others or 
himself make things clear what I know of what I/he thinks of. 
    In Orient, truth tends to come suddenly to one's mind after his 
deep thinking inside.  It might be part of the reason why some discussions
between those having oriental- and occidental- background end up in
a silence with misterious grin of the former, who rely less on words.

>On the other hand, if they can't answer the questions, there isn't
>any sense in trying to have a dialog...

    Except when there is `language-barrier' between you and others. 
    Mr Ishikawa complained that Japanese authorities should try
to expand Japanese language eduction course in many countries in
order that foreigners would not meet with too much difficulties 
when they visit Japan.  (source: fj.news.group)
    Someone mentioned (elsewhere in the news) that you declared 
you don't understand Japanese language.  Then you must have rich
experience in it.  How did you manage to get over the barrier when
you ask questions to Japanese people?  And I would like to know why
you don't use Japanese, inevitably a best tool for communication in Japan.
    For you it should be a FAQ, but this is the first time for me to
ask this.  Thanks in advance.

--
 Masahiko Tachibana	          E-mail:  mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp
 Lab. of Organometallic Chemistry,   Tel:  +81-48-462-1111 ext.3513
 The Institute of Physical and       Fax:  +81-48-462-4665
 Chemical Research (RIKEN), Wako-shi, 351-01 Japan.
From: magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson)
Subject: Re: Pre-SakeReport (Re: Some cooking Q.) [ENGLISH]
Organization: School of Info. Science, JAIST Hokuriku, Japan
	<1992Jul14.063731.18709@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<SANTOS.92Jul15132150@melon.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp>
	<MARKD.92Jul15105839@stallman.csl.sj.nec.com>
	<1992Jul16.130534.24762@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:08:18 GMT


Shochu is good stuff. It is basically not so different from vodka and 
schnapps, but has a very distinct flavor that stands out.

My simple home-made mix has been to use whatever soda I have at hand.
Diet Sprite with Shochu with plenty of rocks is a great summer drink.
Chu-hai, mixing tonic water and fruit drink, sounds like a good
mixture too. 

Incidentally, as a long time gin&tonic aficionado, I have
a rather amusing incident to tell of which is indicative of how $@$$$J$+(J 
this place is. The first time I walked into the $@<r20(J ($@$5$+$d(J) on the
corner, a liquor&convenience store, I asked them very carefully in my
rudimentary Japanese for 'tonikku uota'. The answer was: "oh, yes,
right here... hair tonic!"

Magnus
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: There's-only-one-Truth-ism?
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:39:18 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana) writes:

>magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:

>>In article <2173@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
...
>>   I think I understand what you're getting at but 'tatemae' and
>>   'honne' are both behaviors (unless you feel you can read people's
>>   minds :-) , so perhaps we could call them 'public behaviours' and
>>   'private behaviours' within relatively local groups (each of which
>>   claims to be "We Japanese"). 
>>
>>I take 'tatemae' to be a behaviour, as it is what is actually
>>displayed, but 'honne' to be a feeling/belief/thoughts that are not
>>acted upon (except when induced by enough beers...:-).
>    
>    In my view, and almost all native speakers of Japanese I think will
>agree :-), `tatemae' and `honne' are both thoughts.  Honne is what he 
>really believes in and tatemae is what he says to other people as if it
>is his opinion.  But on the viewpoint that what he doesn't really believe
>in is not feeling/belief/thoughts, tatemae is not thought but a technique
>or behavior.  I think it's not that simple notational difference.

>    Besides, I basically agree the definition of Honne by Magnus.  Great.
>And still I want to add a word 'yet' between 'not' and 'acted'.  Though
>it's not very often, people act on their beliefs without the help of
>alcohol :-).  

And from what the people in the groups I lead have said, one of the
ways they do it is by speaking English! That is, the rules of
Japanese society don't have a such a strong hold on people when they
are speaking English (or presumeably an non-Japanese language). 

Another way is to leave their native area. Part of this morning's
discussion was about the idea of "Folk Societies" (that I talked
about before) and somebody was saying that her father married
somebody who was not from his native place so they "escaped" to
Tokyo.

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
Sorry, I can only understand replies in English (or a little French).
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: complement/compliment (was NG for gaijin topics.) (English)
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:47:24 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer) writes:

>When I was in college I hung out with a mixed group of Americans
>familiar with Japanese, and Japanese native students. My favorite coined
>word for "unbelievable" was "un-shinjiri-ble."

Sounds like it was fun to make up l-o-o-o-o-n-g words. From what I
hear the trend for importing words to Japanese is to make them
shorter.  Also fun, I would guess. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
 
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: Instant Foods (Re: Pre-Noodle...) [ENGLISH]
Date: 20 Jul 92 22:05:41 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer) writes:

[* lots of good stuff about food omitted *]

>Maybe we should drop this thread, I keep drooling on my keyboard!!

Did I ever tell you about the time I was sitting at my keyboard one
cold winter's night drinking hot sake and somebody called and I
accidently spilled a whole One-Cup into the keyboard? 

I tried to clean it but sake is real sticky when its dries so the
keys would just stay down. But it was on an NEC 9801 so I took it
over to Bit-Inn in Osaka, they gave me a loaner, and cleaned it up
in a couple of days. No charge. And only looked at me a little funny
when I explained the "problem" :-)

Lesson number one....

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087


Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer)
Subject: Re: complement/compliment (was NG for gaijin topics.) (English)
Organization: NEC America.
	<1992Jul14.064301.18789@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<MARKD.92Jul14133240@stallman.csl.sj.nec.com>
	<SANTOS.92Jul15115310@melon.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp>
	<MARKD.92Jul15103714@stallman.csl.sj.nec.com> <SANTOS. 
	<ISHIKAWA.92Jul22222816@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:52:19 GMT

In article <ISHIKAWA.92Jul22222816@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp> ishikawa@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa) writes:

   >>	If it had been French Army that occupied Japan after the
   >>Second World War, young people today might be hanging in a road-side
   >>cafe instead of at MacDonald. Just kidding.

   Dave> Sure. And if Japan had one the war, young people in L.A. would be
   Dave> sitting around drinking Kirin and saying "unbili!" (which I just
   Dave> learned yesterday is slang for "unbelievable!" :-)

   I hope "unbili" is an ephemeral existence. I had to re-read your
   explanation to understand it. I know that foreigners in Japan find it
   difficult to cope with the shortened form of many words and phrases,
   which the Japanese seems to like. "Pasokon" for personal computer, for
   one. But, "unbili" is "unbili".

When I was in college I hung out with a mixed group of Americans
familiar with Japanese, and Japanese native students. My favorite coined
word for "unbelievable" was "un-shinjiri-ble."

Mark
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: ishikawa@ds5200.personal-media.co.jp (Chiaki Ishikawa)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: No Response to English Articles? [English]
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:45:55 GMT
	<1992Jul28.135751.25940@nntp.csl.sony.co.jp> <2190@aegis.or.jp>
Reply-To: ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Personal Media Corp., Tokyo Japan
In-reply-to: davidg@aegis.or.jp's message of 28 Jul 92 23:04:45 GMT


>>>>> On 28 Jul 92 23:04:45 GMT, davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) said:

Dave> kono@csl.sony.co.jp (Shinji Kono) writes:

Dave> [* other stuff omitted to keep this article short *]
	
	[other deleted]a

	>The valid objection is coming from NG name problem.  Some people
	>doesnot like fj.life.* domain in historical reason. I think it is
	>historical reason because he has no alternatives anymore. We already
	>tried fj.soc.*, fj.soc.lang.*, fj.living.*, that is, we finished the
	>discussion on NG name.  Others offending posts are merely claiming
	>about the usage of fj.life.in-japan. It can be solved by "on-the-run"
	>training.

	[one para omitted]

Dave> As for "on-the-run training", what a great expression! I assume
Dave> you mean we can smooth things over once the new newsgroup is in place....

	Hm... When have we become fugitives?

Regards,

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chiaki Ishikawa                       Phone:+81-3-5702-0351
  Personal Media Corp.                      FAX:+81-3-5702-0359
 MY Bldg, 1-7-7 Hiratsuka,   UUNET: ... uunet!pmcgw!ishikawa, or
 Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 142                ishikawa%pmcgw@uunet.uu.net
        JAPAN                JUNET:     ishikawa@personal-media.co.jp
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: fj.misc
Subject: Re: There's-only-one-Truth-ism?
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:27:49 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson) writes:

>In article <2173@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>   I think I understand what you're getting at but 'tatemae' and
>   'honne' are both behaviors (unless you feel you can read people's
>   minds :-) , so perhaps we could call them 'public behaviours' and
>   'private behaviours' within relatively local groups (each of which
>   claims to be "We Japanese"). 

>I take 'tatemae' to be a behaviour, as it is what is actually
>displayed, but 'honne' to be a feeling/belief/thoughts that are not
>acted upon (except when induced by enough beers...:-).

Sort of, but not quite. I have people tell me that they act on
honne but only in certain situations. One is when drinking, but
there are others such as with close friends or other people they
feel socially "safe" with.

>   Sorry, but I don't understand '$@$+$C$3$$$$(J'...  especially as how I'm
>   on a machine which doesn't display kanji (not that it would help :-)

>That's too bad, since my experience is that the Japanese will slowly
>filter in when given the opportunity. I actually wrote 'kakkoii', in
>hiragana.

Sorry, but I meant that I don't understand Japanese hardly at all.
You might as well have written 'iiokkak' for all it means to me.

>   My strategy for dealing with the situation is to say that IMHO the
>   main event is understanding what other people say (and asking
>   questions if you don't) and making sure other people understand you
>   (and changing the way you say things if they don't).

>I think that's a good approach to communication in any language.

Sure. I didn't mean to imply that it worked only in English :-)

Dave

--
Dave McLane                                       davidg@aegis.or.jp
Sorry, I can only understand replies in English (or a little French).
You're free to copy/quote/translate this as long as credit is given. 
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: magnus@jaist-east.ac.jp (Magnus Halldorsson)
Subject: Re: Automatic U.S. citizenship (was non-natives in Japan)
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: School of Info. Science, JAIST Hokuriku, Japan
	<MAGNUS.92Jul21162331@is19e0s00.jaist-east.ac.jp> <2121@aegis.or.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:05:05 GMT

In article <2121@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

   Interesting. From what I have learned in s.c.j, dual citizenship
   is allowed/arranged/permitted on a country by country basis.

From what I understand from those messages, it's not the case that the
U.S. allows for a dual citizenship depending on what the other
nationality would be. Rather, that U.S. law does not prohibit dual
nationality per se; whether it would be possible depends on the rules
of the other country.

For instance, if, in order to gain or maintain a nationality of
country X, you must implicitly or explicity renounce a U.S.
citizenship, it will not be possible to have dual U.S.- X nationality.

I believe this is the case with Japan.

   Ahhh, that's curious. So who you are (in terms of citizenship)
   depends on what passport you happen to have in your hand at the
   moment then :-)

More the case that if you enter as an alien, you are implicitly
considering yourself a non-US-citizen.

Magnus
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.rec.food
From: kuno@gssm.otsuka.tsukuba.ac.jp (Yasushi Kuno)
Subject: Hamburg[er]s (Re: Instant Foods) [ENGLISH]
Organization: GSSM Otsuka, Univ. of TSUKUBA, Tokyo, Japan
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:07:22 GMT

$B5WLn$G$9!#$3$NOCBj$O(Jfj.misc$B$G;O$^$C$?$N$G$9$1$I!"(Jfj.rec.food$B$G$b(J
$B6=L#$"$kJ}$,B?$=$&$G$9$+$i%/%m%9%]%9%H$7$^$9$M!#(J

  (Above is an explanation for cross-posting.)

markd@csl.sj.nec.com (Mark Dyer) writes:
>> Hamburger Helper is
>> pretty common. You just brown some hamburger in a pan, drain the grease
>> then add water and the contents of the box (usually a powdered sauce mix
>> and some pasta or dried potatoes) and let it simmer a while.

I wrote:
:       But... I feel that preparing hamburger from raw fresh materials
:   (that is, mince, onion, bread, milk, egg) are quite easy!  Oh, or
:   is it difficult to obtain mincemeat in USA?  You have to mince meat
:   yourself?

> Ah! Another case of "that word means something else over here!" In
> America when we say "hamburger" we mean "ground beef" or a sandwich made
> of fried ground beef. We don't (usually) add onions, bread, etc. We just
> form the meat into a patty and fry it.

> "Mincemeat" is easy to get in the US around Christmas time. We make pies
> out of it as a traditional holiday food. It is made from minced nut meats.
> (the part of the nut you eat is called the "meat" of the nut) It doesn't
> have any animal parts in it. What is called $B%_%s%A(J (minchi) in Japan is
> called "ground" (examples: ground beef, ground pork, etc)

    Differece of "mince" and "ground" set aside, difference of
hamburgs in USA and Japan seems interesting.  I myself feel that
Japanese style hamburgs (with onions and breads) taste better.
Now I suddenly recognized that all hamburgs which we purchase
at "hamburger shops" are of American style.  Surely, all we have
there is a patty of meat sandwitched in a bread.  But I
sometimes make hamburgers myself at home, it means that I make
sandwitch from Japanese-style hamburgs.  I feel it very tasty.
Why not some Japanse hamburger chain sell "Japanese-style"
hamburgers?   How about MOS?  Note that most "hamburg steaks"
we order at restaurants are of Japanese style!

P.S. How do you visitors in Japan feel about humberger shops
     in Japan?  Are they similar to those in USA?  I understand
     that SIZE or DIAMETER :-) of hamburgs differ, but any others?
Newsgroups: fj.misc
From: tozaki@math.keio.ac.jp (Hidekazu TOZAKI)
Subject: Re: Chinese accent symbols (was Re: Tohnyu Soup (Chinese food))
Followup-To: fj.misc
Organization: Faculty of Sci. and Tech., Keio Univ., Yokohama, Japan.
	<JIN.92Jul29170857@sky.astem.or.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul29175848@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
	<1992Jul29.141419.27749@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
	<CLAUDE.92Jul30120838@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp>
Distribution: fj
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:56:39 GMT

In article <CLAUDE.92Jul30120838@tokyo.trc.mew.mei.co.jp> claude@trc.mew.mei.co.jp (Claude Huss) writes:
 |P.S.: I don't know what newsgroup would be suitable to crosspost,
 |could someone do it for me?

fj.sci.lang.
--

							     $@8M:j(J $@1Q0l(J
                                            tozaki@nak.math.keio.ac.jp
Newsgroups: fj.misc,fj.news.group