HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers update
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:14:45 GMT

In article <1iet37INN5l9@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>
>The point that I have made in a number of private messages about this
>issue is that one simple statement for this newsgroup and whatever
>other electronic distribution has been involved in this matter will
>save answering dozens of phone calls. It is hard to understand
>why Rabbi Levin would not want to cooperate with such a process.

The point is that this is *just* a newsgroup. Rabbi Levin has *many*
other things to do, each and every day. It is only hard to understand
why he "does not want to cooperate" if one lives life voyeuristically,
like so many s.c.j.-netters.

People -- get a life.

-- 
Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:26:59 GMT

In article <2506@itexjct.jct.ac.il> warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein) writes:

# In <1993Jan3.211249.26278@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >	I disagree.  If anyone does take him literally than that person
# >has problems that would not be helped by anything Binyamin would do.
# >The only difference is that the time and or target might be different.
 
# Perhaps someone might think that Binyanin actually intends what he
# says.  What is to prevent this from happening?  What happened to Avot
# 1:11?
 

	So what?  That person would still be responsible for his actions,
unless he was so mentally unfit as to require being committed.
However, if this was the case than even had Binyamin not made the
statement nothing much would have changed as I previously pointed
out.

# >	As for Binyamin personally, making those statements is certainly a
# >lot healthier than actually acting them out.
 
# Well yes, actions that simply run the risk of inciting someone else to
# murder are to be preferred to murder.  Better yet is silence.

	You are making it real difficult for me to avoid using an ad
hominem attack.  Silence may have been better.  However, even better
than that would have been your silence in just about everything you
have written about Kach or members of the Kahane family.  At least
Binyamin was not repeating lies.

# me: From your point of view David, would it not be a desecration of the
# me: memory of his father for an act of murder to be attributed to his
# me: purported followers?
 
# >	Yes.  However, only an anti semite would pin something like this
# >on Binyamin unless Binyamin had something more to do with it than
# >uttering a very understandable feeling.
 
# I sincerly hope that I shall be spared the opportunity to so demonstrate
# my antisemitism.

	If you seriously believe this than you have already demonstrated
it.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mgoller@uceng.uc.edu (Michael Goller)
Subject: Re: Jewish Singers
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:12:39 GMT

I read in a book about jean lafitte that he was jewish (or at least through 
his mothers side of the family.)  He was also a mulatto i believe.

mGoller
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:35:51 GMT

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>I don't hate the grandson for the sins of his grandfather, although your
>question isn't addressed to me.  I just think he ought by now have been
>French, danish, polish or whatever, rather than German, for the sins
>of his grandfather.  I don't even think that's a punishment.

Yes, the bad bad Germans would have crossed the border to
France and then the miracle happend. They all became 
nice people. And all of their children where peacefull.
Very good  =)

By the way: At the moment I'm a human and I want to be nothing else.

Bye,
  Christian

-- 
"There're so many different world, so many different suns,
 but we have just one world, though we live in different ones"
- Dire Straits "Brothers in arms"
Christian Lampl - stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de - aka Ray at the IRC
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 05:20:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.231121.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <1iq1q4INNq31@slab.mtholyoke.edu>, jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
>> To say that "Germans are more capable of cruelty than other people"
>> is as bad as saying "all Jews are coniving, thieving opportunists."

>> Is that so hard to understand?

>No it's easy to understand, but it happens to be untrue.

Well, now, why not whip out your Ph.D. in physics and prove it then.
ARE Germans more cruel than other people?  Have you tested a sample
of Germans for cruelty?  How do you know? 

Was it the Germanness of the Germans in WW II that made them so 
cruel?  Why did many non-Germans ally with tthem and act just as 
cruel?  Why did many Germans refuse to be cruel? Were these Germans
really in some way not German?  

Besides, my ancestors were German, too.  German and Jewish.  Am
I therefore more cruel than someone else?  

C'mon.  Give us *some* reason to believe you have that Ph.D.

Roger
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: (Jewish) Kabbalistic Meditation ?
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:20:32 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <1992Dec29.204112.18052@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>--
>"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
>On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey casserole
>    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
>[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
>   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)


Is the turkey/Turkey homonymy the limit of your creativity ?
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel must NOT return the "garbage"
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:52:41 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan9.215810.21735@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>jle@locus.com (John Elghani) writes:
>
>>And you don't think of them as garbage, I assume, right?
>
>Thus far, I only saw the Lebanese referring to the terrorists as garbage.

Actually, you haven't been following this thread too closely.  The
racist garbage has only emitted from the mouths of some loyal posters
in this newsgroup.

>>The world should condemn the the garbage dumping issue, as
>>they are expected to condemn Hitler's action.
>
>I'm waiting.  When are you going to follow your advice and condemn the
>Lebanese?

Of course.  They are responsible as well.  Because even though Israel
is known to be unmerciful, at least the Lebanese 'brothers' should
have a little more sympathy and understanding.  I don't know how accurate
this information is, but I heard that Arafat influenced the government
to not assimilate the expelled into Lebanon.  What his reasonings might
have been could be many, but what seems clear at this point is that the
418 unjustly accused Palestinians do not know what the outcome of their
destiny is, nor do hundreds of other Palestinians living in the Occupied
Territories, whom, at any point, could share the same future without
just cause.  And even if one was given, simply for not being subservient
and mindless followers of such ruthless policies held by Israel.
 
Anisa

	"The counter revolution People smiling through their
	tears Who can give them back their lives And all those
	wasted years? All those precious wasted years - Who will
	pay?"  Geddy Lee

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 15:57:07 GMT

In article <4135@randvax.rand.org> talmy@randvax.rand.org (Shel Talmy) writes:

>don't forget Sammy Davis Jr.!

He was originally a Christian who converted to (Orthodox/Conservative/Reform?)
Judaism.  Reportedly he "returned" to Christianity before his death.

Question: Is he still considered a (apostate) Jew by all 3 forms of
Judaism?

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24849 soc.culture.italian:5733
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.italian
From: distef@eecg.toronto.edu (Eugenia Distefano)
Subject: Re: Why is the Florence synagogue "fortified" ?
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:40:15 GMT

>So instead, I'll ask you.  Does the Jewish community
>of Florence feel threatened in some way?   All the Catholic
>churches in the city eagerly invited tourists into
>open doors; by contrast, this synagogue literally walled
>itself off from the outside world, as if it needed to
>fend off a hostile surrounding community.
>

I was in Rome last summer. I counted four police cars and two 
police vans outside the synagogue. My guess is they are there
to protect the Jewish community from possible attacks from
Palestinian terrorists and Italian neo-Fascists. As for the
former threat, I recall there was a bloody attack outside the
Roman synagogue at the beginning of the eighties (a 2 year
old died). As for the latter, neo-Fascist antisemitic activities
have recently been on the rise.



-- 
 Eugenia Distefano 
 distef@eecg.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1993 17:18:58 GMT

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>I lived there for two years from 1990 - 92.  Is that okay?  The fact that other
>countries perform atrocities does not excuse the Germans theirs, and I do
>not single out the Germans at all - it is just that this posting concerned
>the Germans.  It is disingeuous to argue that I must be wrong in my accusations
>because the same thing goes on elswhere, or to argue that because there are 
>significant numbers of good Germans that the rest cannot be bad.

Well, that's right. There will always be good and bad germans
and good and bad jews. What would you call me if I would say
because of the fact that many jews in israel can't accept the
arabs, israel shouldn't exist. If I would say that the jews
don't have the right to have an own country.
I wonder what would happen to the German police man who
killed a foreign demonstrant. What happend  to the police
man who killed the arab demonstrant ?
Every country has his problems. Yours with the religion conflict
and ours with economic problems. There will ever be some freaks
who blame other people for their own mistakes and problems,
german ones and jewish ones.

Bye,
  Christian

-- 
"Die Demokratie ist ein Verfahren, das garantiert, dass wir nicht
 besser regiert werden, als wir es verdienen."
- G. B. Shaw
Christian Lampl - stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de - aka Ray at the IRC
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: British Collaboration with the Nazis
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:49:48 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

I just finished reading the report by Amos Regev, the correspondent for YEDIOT
ACHARONOT in London, on the opening up of the archives of the Channel Islands
during World War II. What follows is Regev's report of the expose in the
British paper the DAILY EXPRESS. The Hebrew to English transliterations are my
own so a number of spelling errors may have crept in.

The only British territory to have fallen to NAZI conquest in WWII were the
Channel Islands. It now seems that the British officials on the islands
collaborated with the German invaders in rounding up the (few) Jews that resided
on the islands and turned them over to the Germans for deportation. These Jews
wound up in Auschwitz where most of them were subsequently exterminated.

"The list of Jews was transferred by the British officials on the islands to
the German occupation forces. 'I have the pleasure to hand you the list' wrote
British pastor Reverend John Lille (sp ?), one of the members of the island's
functionaries who collaborated with  the Germans. 'I have the pleasure in
informing you that your instructions regarding the Jews was carried out to
perfection' wrote Victor Curry (sp ?) [the bailiff of the island]."

The Germans also seem to have set up a concentration camp on the Isle of
Alderney very close to the homes of the residents. "Not one of them [the
British citizens] protested" [the opening up of the concentration camp].


So much for British anti-semitism. I hope D.A. Turner who posted his drivel on
s.c.j. recently read the original article in the Daily Express.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL










Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24683 soc.culture.arabic:6322
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 7 Jan 93 04:06:21 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1i6pepINN7ou@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
>
>if the name 'palestine' is history, ERETZ-YISRAEL is prehistory. we were
>here first. Relearn your history Mr. Turner.

But wasn't that conditional, Hillel?
 
David Turner
(A British Jew who does not support Israel)
>
>Still we would be happy to take you here.

How happy?  I know at least 41_6_ who would love to go too.

Anisa
From: tb13@ellis.uchicago.edu (leon joel gross)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Net access in NYC
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:54:03 GMT
Reply-To: tb13@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

My brother in Manhattan has a mac and a modem, but the only account
that he can access is mine in Chicago, which is a long distance
phone call.

If anyone in the New York area has info about computer accounts
and or net access in colleges/universities in New York, or other
suggestions, please e-mail me.

He just wants to use e-mail on the internet so he can communicate
with family and friends.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Bobg@cullen.demon.co.uk (Bob Gregory)
From: shmueli@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Avinoam Shmueli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews for Germans
Date: 6 Jan 1993 09:19:59 -0500
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucc.umass.edu

In article <1993Jan6.120516.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>Would you object to 'the Thais like hot food?', 'the Chinese are good with numbers?'
>It's extremely naive to respond to accusations against a nation with ' it's not
>valid because it doesn't include all of them', and disingenuous too.  Would you
>insist that I qualify the above statements about Thais and Chinese with 'but not
>all of them'?  
>
>Anyway you're in the US, so what do you know about the Germans?
>
>Laurence

I for one find the above general statements absolutely absurd. You seem to
give them as examples of straightforward common sense, confident that 
every reader will agree with them... What exactly does it mean, "Chinese
are good with numbers?" What exactly does it mean, "hot food"? relative to
what? I remember a session I had with my academic advisor two years ago: 

"I never took any math since 10'th grade, and that was 12 years ago"
"But you are an Israeli, Israelis are good with numbers. You'll do fine
in Calc "
"I can't remember how to do long division. I really think I need some
preliminary work first...."
"But you are an Israeli, Israelis are good with numbers. You'll do fine
in Calc..."
"Please..."
A racist is a racist even if his/her intentions are good. As a product of
the Israeli educational system and environment, and more importantly, as
a Jew, I find myself emotionally agreeing with the _tone_ used against the
German people in this thread... 
Of course I have these feelings myself... what could be
expected from someone whose family tree was wiped out only two generations
ago... But I can also recognize the poisonous effect such emotions can
have on my thinking. I can still recognize statements such as "[All]
Germans/Arabs/Jews are racist" as patently absurd (and racist), whether
the word "All" is there or not. General statements always imply the "All".

Human perception is based on such generalizations, we have to think in
such terms in order to make sense of the world... but that does'nt give
us a license to naively believe in them verbatim. "Thais like hot food"
is good if you know nothing about Thais or about hot food. It means very
little if you try you explore a little further, and it is morally and
intellectually destructive as a basis for a personal world-view of any scope.
Perhaps you think that "Jews are not racist". Who knows. But you'll agree
that some people are; and some people are Jewish. Make sure you are not
in both sets yourself. Don't say "it cannot happen to me". Off the soap box.












-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm Avinoam Shmueli (Avi), reach me at:        shmueli@student.umass.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: REAL Cheese?
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:31:42 GMT

In article <israel.726661140@unixg.ubc.ca> israel@unixg.ubc.ca (Robert B. Israel) writes:
>In <1993Jan7.200123.9801@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
>
>>In regard to the cheese question.  I asked my rabbi (Rabbi Kaganoff of
>>Baltimore) and he said that one of the main problems with cheese is
>>that a shomer shabbos person must put the rennet or starter into the
>>milk.  For a large manufacturer of cheese, this means that full time
>>people must be hired to handle this.  THis is separate from the kashrus
>>issues that may be involved.  To me, (personally) it sounds similar to
>>the idea of bishul akim but I didn't have the time to ask more about
>>it.
>
>Presumably with a modern plant, the rennet or starter is put in by a
>machine, not a person.  In this day and age, it should be easy to 
>arrange for a shomer shabbos person to initiate the process by 
>pressing a key on a computer many miles away.  Would this not be
>halachicly sufficient?  Full time people would not be required.  In
>fact, it seems to me that I remember there being some such arrangement
>in Vancouver a while ago.

Caveat lector: I HAVEN'T LEARNED ABOUT THIS. But I'll offer an opinion
anyway...

What is the reason a shomer-shabbat Jew must add the rennet? If (as
seems likely) it is because such a person can be relied on to add
kosher rennet, then it would seem to me that automating reduces, but
does not eliminate, the problem; i.e. a shomer-shabbat Jew would have
to load the rennet into whichever machine adds it to the milk. Still,
this would be easier to arrange, as a full-time employee wouldn't be
necessary...

ObDisclaimer: All of the above IMNRO.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Tradition (?) of gold flakes in wedding invitations
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:59:17 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I recently received a wedding invitation which was both decorated with gold
flakes as well as containing loose ones. Does anybody know more about this
tradition?

David Maddison
Melbourne, Australia
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Billy Joel
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:22:49 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <4891@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>Someone remarked in this "Jewish Rock Stars" thread that
>Billy Joel was Jewish.  I thought he was Catholic (Italian
>decent) ...

Billy Joel was born to Jewish parents, but he married a Catholic
woman, so his children are not Jewish.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: reversed conversion
Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:47:09 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

An interesting case for this thread might be that of Geza Vermes,
the prominent scholar at Oxford University known for his 
scholarship on the Dead Sea Scrolls and a wonderful book called
"Jesus the Jew." It is my understanding--and corrections are 
of course welcome--that Prof. Vermes was born a Jew (in Hungary,
if memory serves). He converted to Roman Catholicism and 
eventually became a member of a religious order (at least I 
think a photo of him on one of his earlier books shows him
dressed in religious garb). Later in life he converted back
to Judaism. I believe he now regards himself as Jewish, but
I have no idea what "flavor."


-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:46:51 GMT

In article <46265@unlisys.in-berlin.de>, stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl) writes:
> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
> 
> But some people, like Michael or Lawrence, seem not to understand,
> that this is no matter of belonging to a special race or country.
> Btw: In their opinion to be German means to belong to a special
>      race which is more violent and more rasistic than others.
>      Looking at Germans as members of a special race is just
>      the same bullshit the Nazis did. But this fact they don't
>      want to hear.

I just love to have my opinions given by someone else.  I don't speak
for Michael, but as far as I am concerned I do not think the Germans
belong to s special race, but I do think they are inherently cruel and
aggressive and an especially awkward and difficult people.

> I'm not proud of the things my ancestors have done. I just
> don't believe that people in other countries would have behaved
> in a different way. Look at the countries Germany had occupied.

Utter bullshit - there is no other people who have behaved as the
Germans have done in the past, nor would any other nation behave that
way at present.

> Many people there were afraid. Do you think that Germans who
Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish