HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:05:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.010254.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <1k1lodINN830@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, hahn@het.brown.edu (Stephen Hahn) writes:
>> In article 1@vxdesy.desy.de, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de () writes:
>> [ other citations omitted ]
>>> 
>>>Absolutely agreed.  Canada is hugely inferior to the US in all respects,
>>>and Canadians occupy considerable time and efort ina fruitless attempt
>>>to try to convince people otherwise.  To the rest of us it looks rather
>>>ludicrous and a little sad.
>>>
>>>Laurence
>>>
>> 
>>    I don't really understand this:  most of the people I know on both
>>    sides of the border seem to think the two are similar in more ways than
>>    they are different.  Can you explain/justify why you think one is
>>    in all ways superior?  (Your statement seems a little extreme, at the
>>    very least.)  I'd prefer to see reasoning and examples not connected
>>    with your experiences with Canadian government science.
>> 
>>    (I strongly doubt that the "rest of us" are so patronizing to consider
>>     this behaviour as "a little sad", by the way.)
>> 
>
>Oh, by all means.  Canada is greatly deficient in output in all the arts and
>sciences compared to the US.  A country with about half the population of
>Britain, it has produced a handful of reasonable writers (one of the best of
>whom it refused to publish and he had to go to England to find someone to
>handle his books) and artists.  You know my views on its science, so there 
>is no need to repeat them.  It is utterly mediocre in all aspects of
>achievement, in fact it is mediocre in all respects,  the climate is mostly
>terrible (I obviously exclude BC here), goods are overpriced and overtaxed, 
>the scenery is mostly tedious (I exclude parts of the west), the government
>is of the type normally associated with banana republics, the people are
>smug and boring, it has no character whatever.

Canada is greatly deficient in output in all the rapes and murders
compared to the US...
and I just love it when someone defines "reasonable" as "what I like". We
have a lot of culture here, Laurence. You just refuse to see it.
Some people like our climate, and climate has little to do with a
country's inherent goodness or badness. I won't disagree with your
statement that goods are overpriced and overtaxed, but I will suggest that
there's a damned good reason for it. Hint: Try getting sick in the US and
see how long you remain solvent.
Actually, Laurence--YOU are smug and boring. These endless anti-Canada
posts prove it. When will you shut up?

-- 
Ken Breadner	(brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca)	Wilfrid Laurier University
lunatic		(the BREADbox...) 	Waterloo, Ontario, Canada 
Disclaimer: my opinions are warped. Nobody shares them.
From: danny@koala.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Only thirteen demonstrations??!
Date: 23 Jan 1993 05:19:47 GMT
Organization: U.C. College of Natural Resources
Distribution: world
Reply-To: danny@koala.Berkeley.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: koala.berkeley.edu

The following was posted as a comparison of trends in Canada
and the USA:

>From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
>
>		    POLITICAL PROTEST AND VIOLENCE
>	      IN CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES, 1948-82
>
>		Protest 			Deaths from
>	    demonstrations	Riots		political violence
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>CANADA
> 1948-67	 27		 29			 8
> 1968-77	 33		  5			 4
> 1978-82	 13		  0			n/a
>
>UNITED STATES
> 1948-67	1179		683			320
> 1968-77	1005		149			114
> 1978-82	1166		 93			n/a
>
>
>Source: Charles Lewis Taylor, WORLD HANDBBOOK OF POLITICAL AND SOCIAL
>        INDICATORS (3rd ed, vol 2)

Does the claim above of *thirteen* protest demonstrations from
1978 to 1982 mean the average per capita?  :->
	Otherwise, this must understate the true situation by
at least ten timesI was in Toronto at that time, and there
were the following demonstrations *annually*:
1)	International Women's Day
2)	Peace demonstrations in April, August, and October
3)	Post-secondary school student demonstrations against
	cutbacks and declining quality in education
That gives well over thirteen demonstrations in Toronto, and
I assume there was a similar situation in most Canadian
cities.  This is without counting demonstrations that weren't
regular annual events --- and there were *many* such
demonstrations: 100 thousand marched against high interest
rates, organized by the CLC in 1981, May Day marches many
years, demonstrations against China's invasion of Viet Nam
in 1979, demonstrations against U.S. involvement in central
America, African Liberation Day marches in '78 and '79 at
least, demonstrations for divestment from South Africa.
	Of course, I am only including demonstrations that
were on the same side of the political spectrum as I am ---
there were certainly others with very different views
that should be included.
	If mass picket lines at strikes --- cases where
members of the public came out in force to support
a particularly deserving union --- count as demonstrations,
then I suspect the number of "protest demonstrations"
during the five years mentioned would be a hundred
times the number given.
	As for the figure for number of protests between
1967 and 1977: On a single day --- the general strike of
October 14, 1976 --- there was probably nearly that number
of demonstrations, since most centers in Canada had
rallies on that day, as well as an estimated 2 million
staying away from work.
	How did the source cited in the original post come
up with such strange figures?

Danny Heap
From: rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Montreal Net links
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:44:39 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA


     This is the old "for a friend" question.  Are there any public net 
access BBS's in Montreal?  If so, could someone E-mail me the info?

Thanks

-Bob

--                    
INTERNET:  rcf@netlink.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!rcf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: Laurence Godfrey:  Cry-Baby
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:18:33 GMT

In article <lmclefINNriu@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan Marr) writes:
> Poor little Godfrey-child is peeved.  After months of making childish
> insults against Germans and Canadians in soc.culture.canada and other
> newsgroups, he throws a temper tantrum when he isn't taken seriously.
> 
> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
> 
>     Re: Canadian Culture Shock?  Indeed it would be a shock if any
>     [culture] were in evidence in canada.
>     ...
>     wait, I'm no German, I'm just posting from a German machine.  I
>     lived there too - for 2 years - and I despise the Germans.
>     ...
>     Like all Canadians, you find it very difficult to grasp
>     even the simplest of concepts, don't you.
> 
> Then godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>     wcsjc@alfred.carleton.ca (John Coughlin) writes:
> 	godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
> 
> 	    ... on the first occasion that the US had a lottery (around
> 	    1987) for immigration visas for the US, the Canadian mail
> 	    system was absolutely swamped with Canadians rushing to
> 	    meet the Washington deadline, that trucks were being hired
> 	    to drive the applications down to Washington in time, that
> 	    Canadians were literally climbing over one another to get
> 	    out of Canada to the US.
> 
> 	Don't you see the connection ?  Those people were trying to
> 	distance themselves from you, Lawrence.
> 
>     I don't know - you make a serious observation on thisnewsgroup and
>     without fail some Canadian idiot comes back with a stupid answer!
>     Does anyone have a serious answer, or shall I assume that when all
>     else fails in trying to defend your horrible little country the
>     best you can do is revert to childish insults?
> 
> Pity little Godfrey.  He just can't get any respect.
> 
> Alan.
> 

A very childish posting indeed from Alan.  The last paragraph correctly
attributed to me, in which I complain that I am not taken seriously on this
newsgroup, was meant to be ironic.

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,misc.invest
From: watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe)
Subject: Re: Canadian dollar - effect of Quebec separation
Keywords: Canadian dollar, investing
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:15:26 GMT

mthakor@vax2.concordia.ca (M. V. THAKOR) writes:

>To introduce a mundane, money-grubbing thread here (as opposed to the 
>lofty, politico-philosophical discussions we've been seeing :-)), how does the 
>group think the (potential) separation of Quebec will affect the Canadian 
>dollar vis-a-vis, say, the U.S. dollar?

>If the Bloc Quebecois does as well in the next Federal election as some pundits 
>think they will, this may unsettle the financial markets. The prospect of years
>of political uncertainty/wrangling in the event of Quebec deciding to separate,
>in my view, ought to weaken the Canadian dollar.

>Taking the argument a step further, the process could begin as soon as the polls
>showed the Bloc Quebecois leading. Does this mean that it would be wise for an
>individual investor to forego the tax advantages of an RRSP and move money into
>U.S. mutual funds before a decline in the Can. $ occurs? Or, alternatively, 
>make an exchange rate play by investing in a "global money" fund? 

>Am I missing something? E.g., have the exchange markets _already_ adjusted for
>the prospect of Quebec separating? 

>--Mickey

I think the Canadian dollar would take off, on the basis of
all the money that would be saved by not having to have a 
bilingual country :) Imagine all the cereal box space that
could be devoted to advertising, thus improving the economy.

-Larry Watanabe watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach)
Subject: Rae's "corruption"? (was Re: NDP "communism?")
Originator: labach@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:58:26 GMT
	<1993Jan20.142442.12986@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>
Organization: The Bobby Jurasin Fan Club

In article <1993Jan20.142442.12986@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>
bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes: 
> If I have time, I'll search for that Star article which chronicles
> all the scandals.  I don't know many of them off the top of
> my head, because I just moved to Ontario, and most of them occurred
> before I arrived.  It will satisfy those who are silly enough to
> believe that the NDP and political corruption are incompatible.

(sigh.)  Once more, it is not that we believe that the NDP is incapable
of corruption.  It is that we do not believe you have 1) demonstrated
that corruption (use of public office for private gain) has occurred. 2)
demonstrated that this corruption is on par with that practised by the
older parties.

Sure, the NDP govt. in Ontario has been incompetent.  But not because of
the slick, self-serving politicians it is so trendy to blame.  Many of
those incompetents were filling a place for the NDP in the election, not
expecting to win.  A friend of mine was on staff with the campaign, and
informed me that they had candidates trying to quit in mid-campaign as
they realized that they were going to win.  These people were not
prepared for a term in office and were taken completely off-guard.

This does not excuse incompetence in government.  Only serious
candidates, even in apparently hopeless seats, ought to be selected.
But this did not happen, and resulted in the mess Rae has now.  It is
not the slick politicians but the ordinary Canadians you are complaining
about.  One wonders if the armchair politicians of the net could do
better.

- terry -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
New Democrat "corruption"               Tory "corruption"
Peter Kormos poses suggestively         Cabinet minister Colin Thatcher
for a tabloid                           shoots, stabs, and bludgeons his
                                        ex-wife to death
From: delorme@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lisa DeLorme)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Are there ghettos in Canada?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:05:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

I have an impression that may not be true, which is why I am asking this,
please correct my impression if this is not true. 
I have been to several of the larger Canadian cities, and lived in Toronto
briefly. (although some visits were many years ago) 

I never remember seeing what would really be called a ghetto. Does
Canada have them? I remember a few run-down areas, but certainly nothing that
would compare to New York's Bedford-Stuyvesant (sp?), Los Angeles' Compton,
Chicago's Cabrini-Green or even East Oakland or Hunter's Point (San Francisco)

So, what constiutes a ghetto in Canada. What US areas that I know might they
be comparable to? Where are they located? Is this a relatively new thing,
or have I just missed it all along.

Thanks for the education,


-- 
Lisa DeLorme                            
delorme@garnet.berkeley.edu           
DOD #363/ 80 KZ250, (mouse bike), 82 KZ440
                    Hey, I'm finally an acronym: DBNI  (Double bike, no income)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Subject: Atheist country?
Followup-To: soc.culture.canada, rec.radio.shortwave
Summary: Why no Canadian Christian broadcasters?
Keywords: Christian broadcasters Canada curious Gene Fornario
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:50:14 GMT

Article 3683 of rec.radio.shortwave:
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
From: genef@netcom.com (Gene Fornario)
Subject: Why no Canadian Christian broadcasters?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 04:35:33 GMT

We have discussed religous or for the most part Christian broadcasters on
shortwave.  I have noticed that while US broadcast stations may have their
entire format Christian or gospel oriented, such is not the case in Canada.
I have a few good guesses why...but perhaps someone can give me a definite
answer.  I'm curious, that's all.

Gene--

-- 
genef@netcom.com


Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Rae's "corruption"? (was Re: NDP "communism?")
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:29:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.172701.7579@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian Ross) writes:
>labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach) writes:
>: (sigh.)  Once more, it is not that we believe that the NDP is incapable
>: of corruption.  It is that we do not believe you have 1) demonstrated
>: that corruption (use of public office for private gain) has occurred. 2)
>: demonstrated that this corruption is on par with that practised by the
>: older parties.
>
>(sigh). Ah yes, the party faithful respond to the call to arms.
>Read Gerald's summary posted a few days ago. When I get time, I'll
>search for the Star article. 

please do. it's hard for us down here in the states to keep up
with the specific actions Rae is taking to dismember the province.

>: Sure, the NDP govt. in Ontario has been incompetent.  But not because of
>: the slick, self-serving politicians it is so trendy to blame.  Many of
>
>Are you saying that slick, self-serving politicians shouldn't be blamed?
>Or that the NDP are not slick-serving politicians?
>
>: those incompetents were filling a place for the NDP in the election, not
>: expecting to win.  A friend of mine was on staff with the campaign, and
>: informed me that they had candidates trying to quit in mid-campaign as
>: they realized that they were going to win.  These people were not
>: prepared for a term in office and were taken completely off-guard.
>
>This is really lame!  You're basically saying that NDP = Rhino Party.
>If the NDP, or any party, is actually running candidates that aren't 
>intended to win, then perhaps the party on the whole should disband and 
>leave politics to other parties that are serious. Unless, of course,
>they're fielding joke candidates as you are implying.

no, actually the real explanation is that the New Demolition Party
has spent 2 or 3 decades making unreasonable promises and bitching
and whining about everything specifically *because* they didn't think
they would get elected. it is easy to promise utopia (which is practically
and NDP platform plank) when you don't have to back it up. Rae was
only caught "off-guard" because his victory would mean he'd be
held accountable for the positions he held. which is why he has
alienated just about everyone.

>: This does not excuse incompetence in government.  Only serious
>: candidates, even in apparently hopeless seats, ought to be selected.
>: But this did not happen, and resulted in the mess Rae has now.  It is
>: not the slick politicians but the ordinary Canadians you are complaining
>: about.  One wonders if the armchair politicians of the net could do
>: better.
>
>Yeah, right. A Tory or Grit makes a mistake, and they're slick evil politicians.
>An NDPer makes a mistake, and it's simply the result of the human
>frailty of an innocent,  ordinary human being.

exactly. why the hell is the NDP running these people then? and why
are people voting for them?

is change so important that we must have it at *any* cost?

--
charles
From: davec@Autodesk.COM (Dave Cooper)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Are there ghettos in Canada?
Date: 29 Jan 93 00:31:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

Gerald,

> So I'm a pessimist about the short term future...I think our cities are
> in decline, and I don't see anyone out there with solutions in the near
> term.  One can maintain the delusion that somehow we Canadians are
> smarter than Americans...I maintain our policies are just failing
> at a slower rate...the end result is the same...unlivable cities.

Somehow I just don't even notice what you Canadians define as "ghettoes"
or "slums" --- and my current passport (British) has ten stamps from
Canadian customs (so I am a regular visitor to your country: Montreal,
Quebec, Vancouver, the Maritimes).

Nonetheless, I have a question: if all you North Americans think your
cities are decaying and that it is inevitable, why do you suppose this
is not happening so much in other countries?

For example, recent visits to France left me incredibly impressed with
the "liveable" character of places like Lyon, Bordeaux, even Paris. And
the same goes for countries like Australia.

What are they doing right, that North Americans aren't?

Is this your answer:

> I think our current woes arose from the unearned postwar prosperity
> of North America, which has screwed up the value systems of several
> generations.

Cheers

DAVE
(who leaves for Sydney tomorrow night...)
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian Ross)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Labour (was Re: NDP "communism?" )
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:08:50 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach) writes:
: In article <1993Jan22.014114.1347@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: 
: 
: > Democracy is never a waste of money...and a secret ballot is essential
: > to protect the rights of the individual.  But then the labour movement
: > has never been interested in democracy!
: 
: To be fair, I'd be happier with guarantees of a secret ballot, but in my
: experience of unions trying to organize workplaces I've been at, the
: only intimidation came from (gasp!) management.  And if the situation
: has to be slanted, I'd be happier that it be slanted to workers (the
: majority) rather than owners (the minority).  After all, unions have
: made my life better, in a very real sense.  Conrad Black hasn't done
: fuck all for me.

But you must agree that no slant is in the best interest of everyone,
and that a secret ballot is in the self-interest of the workers. Unless, of
course, you want to promote unions like the teamsters.

: As far as I can tell, business apologists want businessmen to have the
: right to act in their own self-interest, but not workers.

It's neither in business's or labour's interest to act solely
in their own respective interest. 


: - terry -
: - anarchist by inclination, socialist in self-defense -

Brian ( militant moderate )

-- 
Brian Ross                          
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca            
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: todd@ai07.elcom.nitech.ac.jp (Todd Law)
Subject: Re: Crime in Canada vs U.S. Why the difference?
Reply-To: todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp
Organization: Nagoya Institute of Technology, Nagoya ,Japan.
	<TODD.93Jan22051952@ceres.elcom.nitech.ac.jp>
	<1993Jan22.204447.23571@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:36:32 GMT


In article <1993Jan22.204447.23571@exu.ericsson.se> lmcjamo@egg.ericsson.se (Jacques Morris) writes:

>Wrong. The metro is nowhere close to being the most dangerous place in MTL.
>The vote usually goes to the McGill ghetto. (mostly university students, about
>10 blocks from nearest metro). 

Well, the ghetto begins at Sherbrooke and University, which is about
1 block from the President Kennedy/University entrance to McGill
metro, which I've been through about 3,000 times.  Lived in the
ghetto in 3 different locations for 4 years, never had a problem,
never saw a problem, never met anyone who had a problem.  Perhaps
you read and believed the McGill Daily just a little too much.

Perhaps a worse place than the metro is the St. Charles area that
everyone says is so bad, but I've never been there.

>And the U.S. have no wealth?
>I would explain the difference here as a more socialist approach to the
>distribution of this wealth in Canada.

You're probably partly right.  But I still maintain that Canadians
wealth largely falls into their laps via natural resources, more
so than the US.  There are easier ways to get wealth in Canada,
and we are the least entrepreneurial G7 nation.  Consider that
we are the only G7 country to not have our own automaker  (now,
someone will bring up the ever-popular Bricklyn counterarguement).
It's much simpler to cut down trees and ship them overseas for
processing than, God forbid, try to do it in Canada.  We even buy
hockey sticks from Finland, and ALL of our skis are foreign made.
Canadians work hard (cutting down trees is hard work - you should
try it), but we are not industrious.

>#1 crime capital in the states: Washington, a town of less than 1 million
> people. Size is not the problem in this city; It might be the segregation

1 million is small?


Todd Law
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nagoya Institute of Technology,
Itoh Laboratory,			"Be excellent to each other."
todd@juno.elcom.nitech.ac.jp
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada
From: bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Re: Crime in Canada vs U.S. Why the difference?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
	<TODD.93Jan22051952@ceres.elcom.nitech.ac.jp>
	<1993Jan22.204447.23571@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:39:23 GMT

   >Smaller cities and towns.  Big cities are the most violent places on
   >earth, possibly because of anonymity.

I don't know if it is still true, but the murder rate in Toronto used
to be slightly below the national average.

Brian
--
       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada