From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Hairless Primate Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:33:14 GMT
Organization: Hostile Statheads, Inc. {Not Affiliated With Sherri Nichols.}

glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:
>Simply put, Eckersley is not better than Rollie Fingers.

Simply put, your analysis is juvenile.

>1)Fingers is already in the Hall of Fame.  A Sporting News poll of baseball
>writers concluded that Eckersley's chances are about "even money."

Bob Welch won the CY in 1990.  Bell and Dawson won MVP in 1987.  Cecil
Fielder finished second in AL MVP voting last year.  LaMarr Hoyt.
Pete Vuckovich.  Baseball writers have proven, beyond a shadow of a 
doubt, that they don't know squat.

>2)Fingers won the Cy Young award ***and*** the AL MVP in 1981, making him
>the first pitcher to win both in the same year.  (Willie Hernandez did it
>in 1984, but his name is not in this discussion.)  Eckersley has not won
>either award once.

Again, you're paying attention to sportswriters.  Bad move.  Many of
them think the earth is flat.  Or that RBIs have meaning.

>3)Fingers led the majors in saves three times (1977,1978,1981).  Eckersley
>has only done that once.

True enough.  Saves are also a meaningless statistic.  I'm not trying to
attack Fingers.  Disprove my statement.  My statement was that over the
five year period, 1987-1991, Dennis Eckersley had the best five year run
ever by a reliever, particularly when era adjusted.  Jonathan King posted
the relevant numbers for Eckersley.  Now, go find a five-year span of
Fingers' pitching that's better.  Then I'll concede the point.

>4)Fingers has the all-time record for saves. (341)   Eckersley had 188 at
>the end of 1991.

Yep.  And Eckersley spent more than half his career as a starting pitcher.
If Eck had started as a reliever, how do you think the numbers would stack
up?

>5)In three World Series apiece, Eckersley did hardly anything.
>1988- 0 wins, 1 loss, 10.8 ERA.  He was the goat.
>1989- 1 save in 1 2/3 innings. 0 ERA.  Pretty good.
>1990- 0 wins, 1 loss, 6.75 ERA.  0 Saves.  Not good.

So you're talking about what, five or ten innings?

> Fingers was great.  
> 1972- 1 win, 1 loss, 2 saves, 11 k's, 1.74 ERA.
> 1973- 0 wins, 1 loss, 2 saves, 8 k's, 0.66 ERA.
> 1974- 1 win, 0 losses, 2 saves, 6 k's, 1.93 ERA.

Looks like 6 saves, 2 blown saves.  Not terribly impressive to me.

> Awesome.

Not really.

> 6) Fingers has a 2.90 ERA compared to the 3.47 ERA of Eckersley.

How about comparing Eckersley's RELIEF era to Fingers'?  Show us
some RELEVANT numbers.

> 7) Eckersley is no longer effective.  I believe he was tagged for 11 or so
> long balls.  Donnie Hill of the Angels got his only homer of the season
> of the Eck.  

Gee, if Eckersley wasn't effective last year, how do you define effective?
How many pitchers met this standard?

For the record, Fingers is no longer effective, either.

-- 
*   Gary Huckabay   * "If Gary Huckabay couldn't hit a baseball 500 feet,  *
* "Walks a helluva  *  he'd be of no use at all.  All he does is talk and  *
*   lot more than   *  drink.  It'd be nice if he could field, but that'd  *
*  Shawon Dunston." *  be too much to ask." - Pat Mustavus, Baseball Coach *
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