HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:25:27 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: Leroy.

In article <leroy.702699342@syzygy>, Leroy. writes:
>     I'll say now (to get it all out in the open): I've only read Vineland. 

So please don't tell us your opinion of GRAVITY'S RAINBOW.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: jpatters@willamette.edu (Jane Patterson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: lilith and creation stories sought
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:33:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: willamet.1992Apr9.003302.8415
Distribution: usa
Organization: Willamette University, Salem, OR

I am posting for a friend who is new to readnews. She is looking for books on 
creation stories in general, and the hebrew myth of Lilith, Adam's first wife,
specifically.  Please e-mail to hcrabtre@jupiter.willamette.edu.
Thanks in advance!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:11:18 GMT

In article <leroy.703140994@syzygy> Leroy. writes:

>     Originally, I was curious why Pynchon was "non-traditional." From the 
>replies I've had, it seems to be a manhood thing: the literary equivalent of
>bunjee-jumping. 

Not at all. Bungee-jumping is not the only way to "take a plunge." But if
this is an example of how you go about interpreting innocuous and
unexceptional metaphor, it's no wonder that Pynchon trips you up. Indeed,
I begin to suspect you'd have problems with Dr. Seuss.

>     Frankly, all these manly insults are a little boring.

It wouldn't occur to me to insult your manhood. Such as it is.



--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: doom@elaine5.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Subject: Re: Scientists' fictions and plays
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: 12 Apr 92 10:45:27 GMT

doom@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:

>There's a mystery novel by Isaac Asimov called _The Death
>Dealers_, about a murder committed in a university chem lab.
>It touches on some of the same issues that C.P. Snow wrote
>about.

As Mark Brader wrote me to point out: _The Death Dealers_
now goes under the title of _A Whiff of Death_.

(He also points out to me that I've been mis-spelling "Isaac"
as "Issac", and actually I probably have been for the last
twenty years or so.  Amazing.)



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler)
Subject: Re: reading in bed
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 01:52:01 GMT


For many years I was puzzled about why it was that every nightgown or night-
shirt I owned eventually developed a large rip in the vicinity of the left 
armhole.  I finally figured out that it was because I tend to read in bed 
lying propped up on my left elbow.  Now I wonder why it took me so long to
figure this out....

/Janet

-- 
send mail to repnomar@leland.stanford.edu
Purdy...lowered his voice.  "Now.  We never had this conversation."   B.J. was 
alarmed to hear it.  Who _had_ had this conversation and what had he been 
doing while they had it?
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 30 Mar 92 04:58:13 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1992Mar29.194133.21609@Cadence.COM> vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni) writes:

>    I rather suspect, 
>    however, that you would not like Dostoyevsky, as his work is fraught 
>    with that obsolete 19th courtesy which Mr. Pynchon has so cleverly
>    eschewed. Dostoyevsky looks after the reader.

So does Pynchon, actually. What seems to give you problems, though, is
the fact that he assumes that the novel-reading public has learned a bit
in the 100 years since Dostoyevsky wrote. GRAVITY'S RAINBOW is a
quintessentially 20th-century novel--to complain because it doesn't follow
the novelistic conventions of Dostoyevsky or (say) Dickens is like
criticising these authors for failing to rely on the epsitolary form.

If you feel that your hand isn't adequately held as you read GR, it's
probably the wrong time in your life to read it.

>    Pynchon, on the other hand, is far too clever for this;
>    he realizes that the true _artiste_ needn't bother himself with the
>    reader. He is above that. His job is simply to write whatever occurs
>    to him, whenever it occurs to him, topping it with a Pollock-like 
>    splash of adjectives wherever - at the moment - it seems best. 

If this is a sample of your ability to interpret authorial intent, I
advise you not to quit your day job. The notions that Pynchon gives a
moment's thought to what "the true _artiste_" does, that he simply writes
"whatever occurs to him" (your confession that you miss the structure of
GR, I guess), or that he resorts to a "Pollock-like splash of adjectives
wherever ... it seems best" are not merely false--they would be laughable
if they were not so pathetic. If you wanted to set out to prove that you
hadn't understood a word of Pynchon, you could not have done better than
to write the paragraph I quote above.

It's worth comparing what the critics have said about GR to Vince's
comments here. See, for example, MINDFUL PLEASURES (Levine and Leverenz,
eds.) or PYNCHON: A COLLECTION OF CRITICAL ESSAYS (Mendelson, ed.).
Normally I wouldn't recommend literary critics where Pynchon is concerned,
since he has made no secret of his own dislike of literary criticism, but
these books amply demonstrate what any good reader may find in Pynchon's
works, so they deserve citation here.

By the way, I haven't ever seen Pollock splash adjectives. I take it that
the referenced canvas is in your private collection?



--Mike







-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:13:38 GMT

jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:

> I have seldom been sexually attracted to non-white, non-protestant,
> non-conservative, non-over-weight women.

Let me get this straight -- you are only attracted to fat, white, Protestant
conservative women?  I find myself sexually attracted to some women whom
I don't know.  Rarely can I tell their religion or politics.

> To claim that there is a gene which controls this is the height of folly.

Actually, you are right.  There is not one gene.  "Likes Women" is one
gene.  "Likes Fat sexual partner" is another.  "Likes White sexual partner"
is a third.  "Prefers Protestant sexual partner" is yet another gene.
And "prefers conservative sexual partner" is an oxymoron.

Interestingly enough, it has been shown by geneticists that anyone
who has all of these genes is not capable of understanding logic.

> If, then, my mind controls my sexual response to individuals based
> on their ethnic background, their visual appearance, and their
> political orientation, what do you think the likelyhood is that
> my mind also choices a partner based on their gender?

I'd say it is about the same likelyhood as your mind determining whether
or not you were born with testicles.


Mark




Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:8141 alt.cyberpunk:2139
From: kim3@husc10.harvard.edu (Jason Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Gibson's new book
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:16:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr17.131629.11221
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Apr15.193013.6061@chinet.chi.il.us> koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz) writes:
>From piecing together various threads here on alt.cybpk, _Agrippa_ (the Book
>of the Dead) is a multi-media art piece that is being produced in a very small
>number.  Gibson's contribution is a disk with poetry that contains this virus,
>but it is not a full-fledged Gibson novel.  There was some traffic earler about
>a working title _Virtual Light_, but I have read nothing further.

I seem to recall reading that this stuff about the virus loaded book was an
April Fools joke started here on the Internet. But nobody's stopped talking
about it, and even Tom Maddox, who knows Gibson, seemed to confirm its
existence, though I don't think it will be used yet. Will the person who
originally posted the message please confirm or confess? Was this an April
Fools joke or not?!

>Concerning another post, there are two William Gibsons in the card catalog.
>The one responsible for Neuromancer, etc is usually listed as 
>'Gibson, William 1947- ', the other author responsible for the mentioned works
>is just plain 'Gibson, William'.  No relation. (or is there???? )  
>
This reminds me of a hilarious thing I noticed in my copy of _Mona Lisa
Overdrive_. Of course I realize from card catalog experience that there
is another William Gibson (a playwright, I believe). Apparently somebody at
the publishing company got the two confused because my first edition hardcover
of _MLO_ cites the author in the Library of Congress info page as (I am
recalling this from memory) "Gibson, William 1914-"!!! Talk about a gaffe!
I know very few 78-year-olds who can write about silicon cowboys.

Jason Y. Kim
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: "The sea, the Sea !"
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:18:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh

I seem to recall Francis Muir talking some little time
ago about ocean- or boat-related literature.  Whilst 
travelling this week, I discovered a new title which
might be added to the list.  It is a compendium of
nautical material of all sorts (which I intend to
delve into in greater depth sometime soon)

_The Oxford Book Of The Sea_ by Johnathan Raban.
Oxford University Press, 1992. #17.95

(No, I didn't take a note of the ISBN.
I hate it when I forget to do that...)
STF
-- 
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"She travels most intensely who travels alone."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson)
Subject: Eudora Welty wins Rea award...
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:54:19 GMT

While literary prizes are eschewed by many of the artistic bent, I thought
this might be of some interest to readers fo this group nonetheless:
(reprinted with permission from ClariNet and UPI, info@clarinet.com for
details)

From clarinews Mon Apr 13 17:49:36 PDT 1992
>From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.news.books
Message-id: <weltyU2AD4pe@clarinet.com>
Subject: Welty wins biggest short story prize
Keywords: books, books & publishing, media, people, human interest
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 13:00:57 PDT
Location: new york city, new york
ACategory: regional
Slugword: welty
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 152; Id: z4860; Sel: nxeb.; Adate: 4-13-4ped
Codes: yeb.rnx., ybibrnx., ynhprny.
Note: (miss.)

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Eudora Welty was named winner of the 1992 Rea Award
for the Short Story, the most prestigious prize of its kind, Monday, her
83rd birthday.
	The Jackson, Miss., author was awarded the $25,000 prize by a jury of
writers and publishers. The Rea Award is given by the Dungannon
Foundation and is the largest for the category of short story.
	Welty, most of whose fiction is set in the Mississippi Delta, has
published six collecions of short stories, most recently ``The Collected
Stories of Eudora Welty,'' in addition to five novels, collected essays,
an autobiography, two books of photographs and an anthology.
	She lives in Jackson, where she was born April 13, 1909.
	Previous winners of the Rea Award have been Cynthia Ozick, Robert
Coover, Donald Barthelme, Tobias Wolff, Joyce Carol Oates and Paul
Bowles.
-- 
Grant Robinson -- ClariNet Communications Corp, Sunnyvale, CA (408)-296-0366
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7853 alt.sex:14204
From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:49:10 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <2342@news.duke.edu> 
bigham@acpub.duke.edu (Scott Bigham) writes:

>From the Holy Book of <1992Apr8.000306.10825@husc3.harvard.edu>
>as spake by zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) :

MZ:
>>  [...]  Of course, if I am right in my moral speculations, their
>>moral judgment should also coincide with my own; [...]

SB:
>That's a mighty big 'if' there, Mikhail,

I like substantial premisses.  Are you, perchance, unhappy with any of them?

SB:
>					 particularly in its implied assumption
>that it is possible for a moral speculation to be "right".

Indeed.  How do you propose to refute my assumption?

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
: Qu'est-ce qui est bien?  Qu'est-ce qui est laid?         Harvard   :
: Qu'est-ce qui est grand, fort, faible...                 doesn't   :
: Connais pas! Connais pas!                                 think    :
:                                                             so     :
: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
: 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707                                   :
: Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139           (617) 661-8151            :
: email zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu or zeleny@HUMA1.BITNET            :
:                                                                    :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:17:32 GMT

John McCarthy writes:

	Advice for those who fear being misunderstood when they go to the
	store and ask for rubbers.  Ask for a pair of rubbers.  The wrong
	interpretation requires a considerable stretch of the imagination.

From my herpetological days out in West Africa I seem to recall that some
snakes have twin penises.

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
From: bl959@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip G. Terrie)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Did Jefferson father Heming's child?
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:53:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.015343.7018
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


There is no consensus one way or the other. The biography 
insisting that he did is by Fawn Brodie: it's an excellent
book, but there's no way to prove that TJ did or did not have
children by Sally.
From: sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: DON'T send flamewar to soc.motss! Apology.
Date: 5 Apr 92 21:02:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: Ra.sbb1.702507760
Organization: Mississippi State University

lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson) writes:

B



B







>TAKE THE STUPID NAMBLA FLAMEWAR TO TALK.POLITICS.HOMOSEXUALITY.



I agree, I am new to the books reader and come in here to have 
multiple responses to a homosexual conversation.  This may or may not 
have something to do with books, but you have enough responses for your
own board which I'm pretty sure already exist.

Just my $.02 worth.
Shay B.
From: tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:26:20 GMT
Organization: The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington

In article <leroy.702699342@syzygy> Leroy. writes:
>     It's important to have something to say when you write, or so I say.

	Good principle.  Next time, put it into practice.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
			tmaddox@u.washington.edu
		"Writing is reading and reading is writing."
				A. S. Byatt
From: jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: King Arthur. Many Many Versions...
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:52:13 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <70148@ut-emx.uucp> jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.015232.4250@bohra.cpg.oz.au> jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean) writes:
>>In article <JOHNS.92Apr3144937@bounty.sinet.slb.com> johns@bounty.sinet.slb.com (John R Schectman) writes:
>>>
>>> 4. Marion Zimmer Bradley - Avalon (?)
>>>    Again Fantasy.  Great Book. From Morgan LeFay's point of view.
>>
>>"The Mists of Avalon", and she doesn't use the "Zimmer" for this title, 
>>at least in all the copies I've seen.
>
> I've got a first edition hardcover, and "Zimmer" is clearly blazoned
> across the spine. One of those sorts of things that I'm more likely to
> notice than other poeple.

Ah well, my umpteenth-reprinting paperback copy definitely only has
Marion Bradley, as did the hardback from the library I almost re-read the 
print off before I found my copy.   What's the cover illustration on the
first edition like?  The one on the paperback is pretty tacky.

Jane

-- 
Jane Lean                                                 jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au
Computer Power Group                                     Phone:  +61-3-8230213
19 Cato St., East Hawthorn, 3123                   "And the granite sky wept."
Melbourne, Australia                                   -- Evelyn Waugh "Scoop"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: Unbearable Lightness of Being (was Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_)
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:36:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.124737.5013@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
>wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:

>>I must have missed something when I read _Unbearable Lightness..._,
>
>I meant that Kundera concerns himself with explicit meanings of
>words. This is automatically a kind of aloofness, since with any
>explicit definition, the meaning moves further away. Hence Kundera's
>"pencil sketch with no outline" motif.

Nevertheless, while that sort of game might distance one from the
characters, I found that I didn't feel this distance when I first read
it.  Thus, whatever else is in the book, I'm still unable to
characterize the book as "aloof".

>>then, since I felt none of the aloofness you mention.  In fact, the
>>reason that I enjoyed the book was primarily my identification with
>>the characters and the situations.
>
>This is odd, since Josef was meant to be an aloof character.

If you mean that the reader was intended to be unable to identify with
him, then the author failed.  If you mean that he was intended to be
shown as aloof, then he succeeded, but I don't see a contradiction
with my identification.

>>My feelings for the structure and reasoning were secondary, and came
>>later.
>
>The structure conveys feeling. It is a peaceful novel.

It does indeed, in that it draws me in.  The structure did not,
however, become an object of interest to me until after my first
reading.  My first enjoyment of the book came from the characters and
situations.

>>Perhaps if I read it again, I'll feel more distant from it.
>
>You are mocking me. Cunt.

Of course.  You post to USENET, don't you?

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
From: cr@jab.tucson.az.us (clint ruoho)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: holocaust books
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:57:02 GMT
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

n2412@cray.com (Joe Green) writes:

> Because there is no fucking other side to the Holocaust.  It's not as
> if the inquirer wants to know whether Shakespeare or the Earl Of Oxford
> wrote the plays. The "other side" of the Holocaust is that it didn't
> happen or that the Nazis were maybe justified or that it matters
> if 5 instead of 6 million Jews were killed.  Asking for books about
> the "other side" implies that these assertions are other than the
> vilest assertions to come along since the assertion that was the
> Holocaust.  It implies that this can be the subject of rational
> debate and is obscene because it is of a piece with the rationalization
> of the victims of the Holocaust out of their existence.  It profanes
> the dead and the living. Asking for the books as an example of pathology is 
> another matter.  An interest in necrology is necessary to live. 

Perhaps in a few generations our children will be able to discuss this 
"holocaust" rationally.  However, as long as there are people who refuse to 
discuss this issue, the truth may never be known.

There in no reason why the "holocaust" should not be debated.  The 
possibility does exist, that these revisionist historians like Arthur Butz 
are correct in their assertions.  I am not God, and thus, I do not know the 
answer.

In my heart, I am neutral on this issue, and I would really like to read an 
appropriately balanced view of the "holocaust" which takes Revisionst 
theories into account.

-clint
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: John Christie
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 19:38:34 GMT

> jfl@world.std.com (john f lovett) writes:
>Does anyone know if a book exists dealing with the career and trial of
>John Christie, the English serial killer?
>
>He was executed in the 1950's.  A movie was made about him about 20
>years ago.  I think it was called '10 Rillington Place'.

The movie was based on a book of the same name, by the
British journalist Ludovic Kennedy.  While there was
no doubt about Christie's guilt in the murders, it is
now generally believed that his downstairs neighbor,
Timothy Evans was wrongly convicted and executed for
the murder of his wife (Beryl?).  There's a gruesome
exhibit of Christie memorabilia, and wax figures of
him and a victim, at Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum in
London, in the Chamber of 'Orrors, of course!

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dawnt@liszt.berkeley.edu (Dawn Tilbury)
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Keywords: travel, Feynman
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 07:15:30 GMT

I read TUVA OR BUST yesterday (by Richard Leighton).  He was buddies with
Richard Feynman (of SURELY YOU'RE JOKING, MR. FEYNMAN and WHAT DO _YOU_
CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK?, both of which are also highly recommended). 
Feynman once challenged Leighton to find Tannu Touva on a map.  This small, 
obscure country (located just NW of Mongolia, on the southern Siberian border) 
had been independent between the world wars and was familiar to stamp 
collectors for its colorful triangular and diamond-shaped stamps.  It 
was incorporated into the USSR in the 40's, after uranium (plutonium?) 
was discovered there.

Anyways, they decide they have to go there, because anyplace whose capital 
is spelled "Kyzyl" must be an interesting place.  What follows is
many years of searching for information on Tuva, deciphering letters in the 
Tuvan language, bringing an exhibition of Tuvan artefacts to Los Angeles,
having their pictures published in PRAVDA's Tuvan edition, and various other 
adventures along the way.  If you loved "Surely you're joking ..." you will
enjoy this book too.

By the way, does anybody know offhand what has happened to the Tuvan ASSR
in the recent breakup of the Soviet Union?  It's probably off the subject
of this newsgroup so please email me.  Thanks!

Dawn Tilbury
dawnt@robotics.berkeley.edu

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7847 alt.politics.homosexuality:2009 alt.sex:14192