HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Need translation for these words
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 04:42:28 GMT

Theresa McConnell (C587307@mizzou1.missouri.edu) wrote:
: 
: 1. What is "Bangsa Tegas Negara Teguh" ?
BAngsa=race
tegas=strict(?)/disciplined
negara=nation
teguh=solid/strong

DISCIPlined race leads to a strong nation.

: 2. What is "Bersatu Teguh Bercerai Roboh" ?
Bersatu=united
bercerai=separated
roboh=collapse

United we are strong, separated, we will fall.

: 3. What is "bumis" ?
bumis-> bumiputra =natives or literally bumi=earth putra=children


Usually the meanig in Malay is the origanal inhabitants, i.e. natives.
The Malays and other bumis have no conscious knowledge of where they come
from. Their legends make them believe that they come out of the earth in
this region.

I believe you can translate it from there instead of being told what people
think they mean.
	Given our cultural back-ground we may interpret it sligthly differently
from those literal meanings.
--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
From: am4z+@andrew.cmu.edu (Afizal Mustapa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:41:35 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


YESS!!!
A new step towards racial harmony in Malaysia. The motto "Bangsa Tegas
Negara Teguh" will never be accomplished if we can't put aside our
differences and stand side by side. 



Afizal Mustapa,
Carnegie Mellon University,
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

"Err.... does anyone know how to prove THIS one is true?
              ( x = 0   ->   z + 0 = -z )   ->   ( .NOT.  x = 0   .OR.  
z + 0 = z )

						Introduction to Logic,
						Philosophy, 80-210.
From: lteo_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Leslie Teo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: The savings rate in Singapore
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:48:19 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Nov5.131617.6579@news.ysu.edu> af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) writes:
>
>Errr.....what is Pareto Efficient and Inefficient ???
>
>Yo No Comprende El Greeko.
>
>
>ATAN

I can't remember the history & the more detailed stuff about what Pareto
(an Italian philosopher) and the concept which he first
defined. 

Here's a working definition: An allocation is Pareto optimal if there
there isn't another allocation with which at least one person is made
better off and no one is made worse off. Or, a Pareto optimal solution
is the allocation at which no one can be made better off unless someone
is made worse of. There is at least one other way of defining Pareto
optimality. 

It's a very weak critirea but it's one critirea that economists use to compare
between allocations in a general economy.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: hykok@nyx.cs.du.edu (Herbie Husker)
Subject: Re: Satelite T.V
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 17:28:28 GMT

espca@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr Y C Quah) writes:


>Does anybody know how to install satelite T.V in Malaysia for personal use ?

>Thank you

Do you have permission to use the setelit T.V. in Malaysia??????
From: thc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (Tse Huong CHOO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Candy is nothing but fluff!
Date: 13 Nov 1992 16:38:22 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak41.doc.ic.ac.uk


Candy writes :

>I believe the author offered the last sentence as a reason. I have not
>seen any rebuttle from any Singaporeans yet. Then we talk...

What does your newsreader run on? Smiles and sunshine?
Talk we will and English perfect you are not.

> Hey bud, who died and made you God ??? Sheeshh...

Don't call me bud, you slimy piece of chicken shit.

Candy, candy.*sigh* Your previous letter has demonstrated that
you, of all the people who spurt inanity onto the net, have 
NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to judge even the most insignificant molecule
of oxygen floating past my Ixora pot, much less anybody else.

And how did you know I was God? 


Tse.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean

Although it's a bit outdated, but news anyway !

Report in The Asian Wall Street Journal, dated 12th October.

When the USA and Japan sneeze, Asia is supposed to catch a cold. This year, 
according to The Asian Wall Street Journal's annual economic survey, most 
economies in the Asian-Pacific region are showing healthy growth rates even
though the US and Japan are in bed with the flu.

Annual real % growth of GDP or GNP.

Country       1990   1991  1992   1993

China         4.1    7.7   11.5    9.2
Hong Kong     3.0    4.2    5.0    6.0
Indonesia     7.3    6.6    5.5    6.0
Malaysia      9.8    8.8    8.7    8.0
Philipines    2.7   -0.9    2.1    5.3
Singapore     8.3    6.7    5.0    5.8
South Korea   9.2    8.4    6.5    6.5
Taiwan        5.2    7.2    6.4    7.3
Thailand      10.0   7.5    7.6    8.0
From: htng@ece.cmu.edu (Hiok-Tiaq Ng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Malaysia's racial policies
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:43:57 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Originator: htng@aries.ece.cmu.edu


In article <1992Nov9.012513.2561@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
|> Ahmad On (on@husc10.harvard.edu) wrote:
|> : 
|> : So, for all you politicians-to-be out there, how do you come to a compromise
|> : between these two problems?  What kind of policy would correct the economic
|> : disparity between the races AND not infinge on the personal liberties of the
|> : rakyat?
|> 
|> If you read my posts carefully you'll notice that I'm slowly going into
|> that direction.
|> 	But first we have to trace these racists , dictators, mass-murderers
|> first. I've identified some who are concerned about the future of Malaysia,
|> but they are still the minority.

Ah, please be so kind as to enlighten us as to your definition of "racists" "dictators" 
etc etc...... 
BTW, one can't  be labelled as a dictator until  he/she takes power and abuses it, right?
How do you propose to flush these people out? McCarthy-ism? 
And sadly, you won't know of a mass murderer until after the fact, huh? 
I would like to know your methods.

|> : 
|> : Let's have some constructive feedback, and not the usual (as Azran puts it)
|> : mumbo-jumbo.
|> 
|> These students have a lot to learn. They should take the STP, general
|> paper, or have they changed it to something less challenging, just need to
|> memorise facts as written by someone.

By your reasoning, I doubt "these students" need to retake anything. 
Seems that these opponents to the  M'sian Govt's policies have voiced their 
dissatisfaction. Not a trademark of persons used to just accepting the 
status-quo and "learn thru memorization". 

|> 
|> --
|> Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,

Hiok-Tiaq Ng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh)
Subject: Re: Malaysia's racial policies
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:11:01 GMT

eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

>TAN GIM WEE (eng20009@nusunix1.nus.sg) wrote:

>	You have struct a nerve cord somewhere but the reason is due to the
>basic nature of the Malays. They do not like to talk much. Even here, you 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>notice that they are very quiet.
	
	Why, Sir, are you being so "noisy" here ? 

>: : Yes, perhaps these policies sacrifice quality but national unity comes
>: : with a price and it is all a matter of priorities. Yours is probably
>: : not the same as the govt, perhaps?
>: Yes, you are right again. However, it would be rather unfair to ask any
>: single community within the country to sacrifice. After all, for
>: national unity, all people should share both the gains and the
>: sacrifices isn't it?

>Has it occured to you that giving the chinese citizenship is a very major
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sacrifice? And limiting the quota to only 30% is also another major 
^^^^^^^^^^^
>sacrifice? What prevents them from achieving 50%?

	Ouch !  It was a major sacrifice, huh ? So major that we Chinese
who fought for the independence of our land and from any external threats
that we don't deserve a citizenship ? We wasted our time, our lives and
blood saving out country, didn't we ? We shouldn't have worked so hard
to make a living so that the government doesn't have to kick aside 30%
of share allocation ?  
	I've got to get a drink....still choking here.... :) I'll go
around telling my Canadian friends that my Malaysian citizenship given to
me was a MAJOR sacrifice.......choke, choke......

>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: pehng@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Peh Ng)
Subject: Re: Anwar Ibrahim's Qualifications
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:49:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.162829.28412@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>
>
>To ME someone who do not get a first class honours is a failure. To get it
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Prof. Othman,

 With all due respect, that is the most arrogant statement I have ever 
 read coming from a person who is supposedly an educator.
 What kind of a teacher/professor are you?


****************************************************************************
      __________    *  Dr. Peh H. Ng                                         
     |          |   *  Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
     |______(*)_|   *  Valdosta State College
     /\__----__/\   *  Valdosta, Georgia 31698
    /_/()||||()\_\  *          
    |_\ o||||o /_|  *  Tel: (912) 333-5778 
    |---- Peh ---|  *  e-mail : pehng@grits.valdosta.peachnet.edu
    |_|        |_|  *                                                     
****************************************************************************
From: ttan@lynx.coe.northeastern.edu (Charles Tan)
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:26:11 GMT


>   -- article 232:NST:10/17/92
>
>   KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysian must make a conscious effort to accept and practice
>   the concept of "bangsa Malaysia" (Malaysian nationality) to promote unity
>   and goodwill, the Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, Raja
>   Datuk Ariffin Raja Sulaiman, said on Tuesday.
>   [stuff deleted]
>   --- end of article



Hmm...interesting. I have been "Thinking Malaysian"...but then, the
Government reminded me that I am Chinese....

Cheers!
Charles
From: tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:37:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov7.183714.17210
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1dfr2iINNfv7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee) writes:
>
>In a previous article, tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh) says:
>
>
>[cut]
>
>>Our grandparents have no choice but to agree. It may be a right thing to do
>>in their generation. However, things change. Furthermore, they have no
>>rights to make us as the scapegoats for them. My grandparents agree to
>>let you guys (the bumis) use our shoulder to climb. Remember, you guys
>>promised not to hurt. However, our shoulders are bleeding and painful. Please
>>don't stand on our shoulders forever. It is really hurting.
>
>Easier said than done. Would you kill the goose that's laying
>you the golden eggs??? Enuf said.
>
>
>

It is a matter of principle. Let's assume that the goose belongs to us. Do you
think that it is right for you to take it without having to share?? I will
let the readers decide for themselves.


>>In US, you can see a lot of the white majority trying to help the minority. It
>>is these voices that is most powerful in shaping the right course for the nation. I sincerely hope that the Malay majority in Malaysia will speak up for the
>>right things. How can we work as one if the government intends to divide and
>>rule?? How can we work together if a certain group is given previledges and
>>not others? How can we work together if most our politicians are so selfish
>					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>and narrow-minded? Let's help all the poor irrespective of races. 
>
>
>Let us not try to mince our words, ok? Spit it out. You were referring
>to Mahathir, Anwar, Baba, et. al. right ??? If so, say it. If not, there's
>nobody else anyways.  :)
>
>
When I said "most of our politician", I meant the majority of the Malay, chinese, and the Indians politicians. I do not intend to involve in name calling. The
worst thing is the chinese politicians that have betrayed the people that
elected them. Who are the people that represent the poor chinese and Indians?
Have you ever seen poor chinese living in slum areas, working part-time to
support their family while studying in primary school while some of our
other fellow Malaysians received all the support from the government. I believe
there are a lot of things which we know from our personal experiences. By the
way, I do not understand your logic, No names = Nobody. It is up to other
readers to judge. Enuf said.

>
>
>
>>It is time for a change!!!!
>
>>T-P Loh
>
>>>>
>>>>Geeva Subramaniam
>>>>University Computer Services
>>>>Bowling Green State University.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>D
>>>>***                       Who is the one that hurts you most ?
>>>
>>>Hasta luego.
>>>
>>>Azli.
>>>
>>>
>>
>--
From: vcs_teo@csd.uwe.ac.uk (VCS Teo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:30:00 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

In article <1992Nov5.165349.3985@memstvx1.memst.edu> ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>In article <Bx99Fw.2qs@andy.bgsu.edu>, subraman@andy.bgsu.edu (ANAND) writes:
>> I think it is the uniqueness of our country being as a multiracial country
...deleted
>
>Rojak's much easier than preparing individual dishes.
 ^^^^^Nah ! fish and chips are eaisier
 
>> country as well as Indians. If you take America, once you become a citizen
>> of this country, there is a chance for you to be a President. I know is not
>> that easy but atleast there is no law or constitution saying that you can't.
>
>	Nope.  The law states that you have to be born in US soil.
>
>> What about Malaysia? There is so much that we as an Indian and Chinese can't
>> achieve eventhough we are the citizen of Malaysia. Maily because of the 
>> special privileges of the bumis.
	
	Not really, its just that the PM is also the head of the current ruling
political party; BN. And the head for BN has got to be the president of UMNO 
not MIC, MCA and etc. In theory a non-bumi can be the PM if he's the pres of
UMNO...which is quite unlikely in practice.

>	I don't think so.  Already there are much questionings by all involved.
	Yes but nothing much done though, anbody know anything about the new 
economic policy after the current one runs out? Frankly most of the 
questionings that I've heard are from this net.

>....deleted.... reasonable amount of time (not necessary within our 
> lifetime)      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	You mean wait till it turns out like South Africa a couple of years
back ?
 


-- 

== victor == Faculty of Law ==================================================
=== teo ==== University of the West of England, Bristol ======================
JANET: vcs_teo@uk.ac.uwe.csd ==================== WORLD: vcs_teo@csd.uwe.ac.uk
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian????????
Date: 12 Nov 1992 12:33:10 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: yoakum.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: Malaysia for Malays, more likely

In article <97304@netnews.upenn.edu>, nlatif@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Nor Azlisya Abdul Latif) writes:
> >
> >	"Malaysia for Malaysians"
> >			    ====
> 
> Does the word "Malaysians" here mean Malays ONLY???  If thats so, are you 
> saying that LKY made Singapore for the Chinese??? Then what the hell are the 
> Singaporean Malays/Indians doing there?? 
> 

Please enlighten me, how did this quantum leap of logic come about ? You
may think that Malaysia is for Malays only (I really don't give a hood
about whether that is true), but where did the Singapore is for Chinese
only come about ? Lexicon wise there isn't even a slightest resembling
between Singapore and Chinese. Your insinuation is not only dispicable 
, it is dangerous. It is bad enough that you can not handle the heat of
the problem in your own house, you have to drag your heighbour into your
own mess. Shame on you.


> 
> Just a note to the Malaysians "non-bumis", OUR government is trying the best
> to appease every Malaysians no matter what the color of their skin is. Please

I see, that is why we have SOOOOO MANY HAPPY CAMPERs from Malaysia on this
net. You are such a liar.

> dont say that the Malaysian government is biased, unfair, etc. Look here, if 
> u chinese think that u r being discriminated against, then, what about the
> Malays in Singapore!!??? At least in Malaysia there are Chinese n Indians in 
> the cabinet.  Hasta Luego.
> 

What about the Malays in Singapore ? Spit it out, if it's truth, it will 
withstand ANY attack on this net. You will remain as a coward if you simply
choose to spread rumors without backing them up with FACTs.

LKY practically had to "drag" Tony Tan, Goh Chok Tong et al.out from whereever
they were to get them involve in politics, was it because they were 
discriminated against therefore didn't want to get into politics too ? In
LKY's own word, it is difficult to get ANYBODY interested in politics nowadays.
Because WE (including ALL races) are happy at where we are, and to serve as
a public servant (unlike in some other country) is not a FAT PAYING JOB !!!

> Azli.


Now that I have cleared some of your "doubts", do pay attention to what you
have to say. They will come back and haunt you sometimes. 


-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xun4
From: fajack@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:34:10 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Nov6.085032.11464@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

> 	Just because you work so hard does not mean that you automatically
> deserve to get special help such as scholarship. In fact, the more successful
> you are the less chance for you to get much privileges. In fact you have to
> pay more taxes.
> 	This naieve stance which you honestly point out is the reason why
> there is still no real racial harmony in Malaysia.
> 
> By your reasoning:
> 
> i)work hard, must deserve special privileges(help),
> ii) no special privileges, mean second class citizens

	There is not what the orginal poster (Amnad ?) meant.  To give you an
example, if we work hard (e.g. get 7 A's), then we should be able to enter 
into local U.  Now if a person work less hard, then he/she should not be able
to admit to local U.  We all know that is not the case in Malaysia, hence
someone has special privileges.  If a system does not reward hard working 
people, then only the mediocre will prevail.  Right ?  
  
> 
> By your explanation, the blacks and red indians in USA are the first class
> citizens by virtue of getting special privileges and help.
> 	The whites, by having no special privileges are the 2nd class citizens,
> even though they are much richer than the other races.

	let me explain the situation in US to you.  Affirmative action 
is not a special privilege.  Again, I will used college admission as an
example.  What the colleges are doing is to try to recruit minority to 
attend college by giving them scholarship and so on.   In doing so, the 
colleges is trying to have a racial mix which reflect the population.  However,
they do not deny qualified people (white) to attend the college.  They do not
rob Paul and give it to John.  Everyone still got an equal chance.  On an
extreme case in which a qualified white was denied admission, he/she can sue
the University.    
	However, I am sure you aware that this is not the case in Malaysia.  
There are a lot of qualified people who was denied admission/work because
of the skin color.   To achieve 'Malaysian' identify, the government should
take the first step to remove the skin barrier.  I don't oppose measures
to help the less fortunate/underpriviledge.  However, a law that blatantly
separate the skin color is definitely an obstacle to racial integration which
the government has been paying lip service to.  


Jack Teh 

> 
> --
> Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
> Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
> Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
> Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
>
From: 902ismail@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Employment/University Service
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:29:06 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov9.014756.17863@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, akir@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Ziad Akir) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear netters:
> 
> Few days ago, someone posted an e-mail address both for BITNET and INTERNET
> for university and employment services that are offered for ASEAN students.
> The address was as follows:  listserv@iubvm.usc.indiana.edu (for INTERNET).
> 
> For some reason or another, I could not send a subscription note to this
> address.  The mail keep bouncing back and telling that the host is unknown.
> Is it possible that there is something missing from the address.  Help please.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> - Ziad
>  akir@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu

I also face the same problem. Could some one help us here. Is the system
fully implemented?
From: nlatif@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu (Nor Azlisya Abdul Latif)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:04:01 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <Bx99Fw.2qs@andy.bgsu.edu> subraman@andy.bgsu.edu (ANAND) writes:

[much deleted]

>What about Malaysia? There is so much that we as an Indian and Chinese can't
>achieve eventhough we are the citizen of Malaysia. Maily because of the 
>special priveledges for the bumis. Well, how many our you think that we don't
>work hard for our country's growth and don't deserve the same priveledges?
>Is this situation will be carried on forever?

As a "bumi" myself, Im not saying that I totally agree with the "special 
previlidges" concept myself.  I totally agree that it is a form of 
discrimination against the non-bumis. But, my point is, didnt the Chinese n 
Indians (n the rest of the non-bumis) agreed at some stage (this was well back)
on the subject (special previledges for Malays/bumis)? And it is also agreed
that the subject should not be brought forward in the case of dissatisfaction?
I know that all of us deserve to be treated equally 'cos it is our country.
And nothing should be better than having the same rights n previledges as the 
person next to you.  

>
>Geeva Subramaniam
>University Computer Services
>Bowling Green State University.
>
>
>D
>***                       Who is the one that hurts you most ?

Hasta luego.

Azli.