HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobb@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Robert W Bales)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Bales is a liar: evidence - one case
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:03:14 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <97056@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
 Wiener) writes:

>Do you still claim that your interest in having creationism taught
>in schools is based solely on scientific motives, and has nothing
>to do with your religious beliefs?  That is quite simply a lie.

I do not "still claim" something which I have not claimed to begin with.  As I
said before, there are religious reasons AND scientific reasons to believe in
creationism.  I have not denied the first.  However, when it comes to deciding
what is science, in schools and elsewhere, *only* scientific reasons are looked
at.  Whether or not religious reasons *also* exist has nothing to do with the
decision: scientific study could care less.  The fact that there is objective,
observed evidence to sugest that life came through a process of creation
justifies including the possibility in a cirriculum in the interests of
accuracy.  It would be nonsense to say "We will keep what we teach inaccurate
because we don't like the motives of those who would keep it accurate."

For the same reasons, I don't talk much about religious creationism in this
group.  I do not have a right to ask anyone to change their view because of
my religious beliefs (unless they want to accept those views -- which is a
different matter).  However, I do have a right to ask that someone change
their view -- or at least to accept an alternative -- if I can show their
view conficts with observed evidence.

Many will say that creationism should not be taught because it is factually
wrong.  If this is so (which I contend it is not), it is a legitimate response.
However, someone taking this position should not be concerned with the
religious beliefs of creationists.

Others will say that *any* religious component justifies the exclusion of
creationism.  Again, I disagree.  But if you want to take that position, go
ahead.  But be consistent.  It is a fact that some people have given reasons
to believe in evolution which are based on an athestic position (i.e., they
believe in evolution because they don't believe in divine creation [*]). So
if you disqualify creation, you must similarly disqualify evolution.

[*] To forestall flames:  I did not say that this is is the only, a major, or
even a common reason given to support evolution.  It is not.  However, if you
are going to judge creationism by what its supporters say on subjects other
that the scientific evidence for and against it, it is only fair to judge
evolution and its supporters by the same standard.

     Bob Bales

I help Tektronix make their instruments.  They don't help me make my opinions.


Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: TMakinen
Subject: Reincarnation proved!!!
Organization: <none>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 05:49:36 GMT

It has happened!

A student of mathematical theology was writing a fairy tale with TeX when, all
of sudden, his Amiga crashed. A red meditating guru flashed on the screen,
giving him two weird numbers.
As was found out, the first number was equal to the ip number of an IRIS indigo
workstation. At the very moment of the crashing of the Amiga of that student, a
plasma simulation program was launched with a task number equal to the second
number given by the mysterious guru.
This, remarks the highly educated scientist A.Brakadabra, is a convincing proof
of methempsychosis on silicon-based conscious beings. Had the TeX behaved
better so it would've been possible to he (the TeX) to find himself in the
computer of a certain Mr. Tuna as a program proving that evolution does not
happen. It is, however, very hard indeed to reach that highest possible state
of reincarnation, say the wise men.

And don't forget to chant.

Teemu

(Where are all the smileys ??? Here, here! :) :) :) :)
From: jmyers@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (James Myers)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Creationism and St. Augustine
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:36:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Creationist who are Christians might be interested to know that
they have enemies among the old Church Fathers as well.  I came across
the following footnote on p. 77 in my copy of Henry Chadwick's translation
of St. Augustine's "Confessions":

	Augustine's _Literal Commentary on Genesis_ is severely
	critical of Christians who bring their faith into
	discredit by treating Genesis as creation-science.
	Nevertheless, he could also argue that the correct literal
	interpretation of Genesis is a matter of such uncertainty
	that none can assert it to be at variance with science
	anyway.

(For the history-impaired, Augustine wrote around 400 AD.)

This book is extant, though never finished, so it might be worth
somebody's while to dig it out.  I have no idea what weight
Augustine's opinion has among the Fundies, but I do know they
can't dismiss him as a mere Catholic hack -- C. S. Lewis,
the patron saint of the Evangelicals, owes much of his 
theology to Augustine (most notably his answer to the Problem
of Evil, which Augustine stole in turn from the Neoplatonists,
according to Chadwick).

-- James
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: TMakinen
Subject: Re: Probability of Evolution
Organization: <none>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:26:48 GMT

In article <RBL3TB3w165w@kalki33> kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us writes:
>Yes, the solutions have high information content, and this is because
>the initial conditions or the boundary conditions have high information
>content. These conditions are not part of the laws themselves, but must
>be stated explicitly. There must be a source of information to draw from
>in order for a system of low "order" to appear to "evolve" to a system
>of high "order. In the absence of laws with high information content,
>that source must be the boundary or the initial state. This is standard
>statistical mechanics, isn't it?

Statistical mechanics does not handle with information theory. Imagine a volume
which is divided into N subvolumes or cells named 1 ... N. As an initial
condition, all the molecules in that volume are packed to one cell c. Now, as
the system evolves in time, all the molecules scatter around the whole volume,
right? Now the disorder has phenomenally increased. Excactly the same is true
for the information content. The initial state is a representation of rep(c) ,
the final states are truly random. So the information content has been
maximized as a consequence of the simple schr"odinger equation.

Teemu
From: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Probability of Evolution
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 03:08:54 EST
Reply-To: kalki33!system@lakes.trenton.sc.us
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA

amorgan@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes:

> I have checked the Stanford library archives.  They don't have
> it.  I can't get it through the local bookstores in any reasonable
> amount of time.  I don't want to spend time and money in getting a book
> which, if it is as good as other creationist works, isn't worth using
> as a doorstop. Please post the proof if it is so blasted straightforward.
> If I can't find one major flaw in the first paragraph I will be very
> surprised.

If you have not made up your mind about the issue of evolution vs.
creation, then why should you not take the time to acquire this book? If
you have already made up your mind in favor of evolution, then why even
bother with it?

I am trying to get Dr. Thompson's permission to "serialize" the chapter
that deals with this. If he agrees, I will begin posting in
installments. The proof is straightforward, but it is long.

I am not surprised that a huge materialistic institution like Stanford
does not have this book. After all, it is "politically incorrect".

In any case, if you really want it, you can call the Bhaktivedanta
Institute in San Diego (619-272-8145). They will rush it to you if you
ask them to.

Sincerely,
Kalki Dasa


       -------------------------------------------------------
      |  Don't forget to chant:   Hare Krishna Hare Krishna   |
      |                           Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
      |                           Hare Rama Hare Rama         |
      |                           Rama Rama Hare Hare         |
      |                                                       |
      |   Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA     |
      |        (kalki33!kalki@lakes.trenton.sc.us)            |
       -------------------------------------------------------
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Bales is a liar: evidence - one case
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:10:02 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <7539@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> bobb@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Robert W Bales) writes:
>>>  Another thing. Please don't fall into the trap of calling Creationism a
>>> THEORY. It is not. A theory, by definition, MUST be capable of enduring
>>> the scientific method: Hypothesize, Experiment, Observe, Conclude.
>>
>>Creationism is capable of enduring the scientific method, as defined here.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


  I would say that this is either a lie or, at best, a false assertion.  A
simple argument should suffice to make the case:

1. If creationsim is capable of enduring the scientific method, then
(a) there are (testable) hypotheses and predictions made by some creationist
theory (by the way, what IS the theory of creationism?), (b) there are
(repeatable) experiments which will yield data bearing on the confirmation
or disconfirmation of the theory (by the way, what IS the theory of
creationism?), (c) there are (publically reviewable) observations that bear
on the confirmation/disconfirmation of the theory (by the way, what IS the
theory of creationism?), and (d) there are (evidentially supported)
conclusions, drawn from experimental/observational data such that these
conclusions are better supported by all the available data than any rival
theory (by the way, just what IS the theory of creationism, anyway?).
2. (With respect to creationism) not (a), not (b), not (c), and not (d).
____________
3. Creationism is not capable of enduring the scientific method.

  Bob, if you wish to take issue with the conclusion of this argument, then
please show us that premise 2 is false (since you clearly accept premise 1).

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: daemon@jatz.aarnet.edu.au ()
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
Subject: Downtime: Vic2, Fri 18:00-18:30
Date: 5 Nov 1992 06:49:16 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Douglas Ray <ray@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4

Downtime:	18:00 .. 18:30	Friday 6-11-92

Sites affected:
		ACCI
		ARL
		BHP Research (Clayton)
		Connect.com
		DA Research
		Leading Edge (and tail sites:
			CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research)
		Telecom Research Laboratories (Clayton)
		UniSuper

The victorian affiliates hub, Vic2.gw.au, will be down for
maintenance at 18:00 tomorrow.

We're swapping an MCI card: this addresses ongoing problems
with the links to

	Connect.com;	Leading Edge / DAR;	TRL


						- douglas ray
						doug@unimelb.edu.au
						networks & comms
						  ph  344-4262
						  fax 347-4803
From: daemon@jatz.aarnet.edu.au ()
Newsgroups: aus.netstatus
Subject: Re:  Downtime: Vic2, Fri 18:00-18:30
Date: 6 Nov 1992 08:47:37 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Douglas Ray <ray@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4

Mixed news:

> Downtime:	18:00 .. 18:30	Friday 6-11-92
> 
> Sites affected:
> 		ACCI
> 		ARL
> 		BHP Research (Clayton)
> 		Connect.com
> 		DA Research
> 		Leading Edge (and tail sites:
> 			CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research)
> 		Telecom Research Laboratories (Clayton)
> 		UniSuper
> 
> The victorian affiliates hub, Vic2.gw.au, will be down for
> maintenance at 18:00 tomorrow.
> 
> We're swapping an MCI card: this addresses ongoing problems
> with the links to
> 
> 	Connect.com;	Leading Edge / DAR;	TRL


The vic2 gateway was back up within schedule.   Some lines have
dropped and will presumably be down for the weekend:
	UniSuper
	ARL
	D A Info

The TRL link came back after a manual reset.

I'm on holidays for the next few weeks.  Queries should be addressed to
chris chaundy, aarnet-contact@unimelb.edu.au

						- douglas ray
						doug@unimelb.edu.au
						networks & comms
						  ph  344-4262
						  fax 347-4803
Xref: sparky aus.ai:165 aus.acs:67
From: rng@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: aus.ai,aus.acs,dsto.general,sa.cs
Subject: Adelaide ACS AI SIG meeting, November 24
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:24:51 CST
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation

                         ADELAIDE AI SIG MEETING
                                    
                       Tuesday, November 24, 1992
                                    
                             Dr. Mark Nelson
                                    
            "An Architecture for Adaptive Navigation Control"

Abstract:
This talk will describe a new type of control architecture that
adaptively navigates a simulated mobile robot.  A robust control
system requires multiple strategies for formulating actions so
that if one fails then another can be used. A consequence of the
design of this control architecture is a redundancy of control
strategies. It is this redundancy  that facilitates a unique
mechanism for achieving robust control through the adaptive
utilisation of the various strategies in response to the
environment. This mechanism for adapting behaviour is described
and its effect demonstrated by robot simulations.

Biography:
For the first half of 1986 I worked on automatic error detection
and recovery for the Automated Sheep Shearing Project at the
University of WA. During that time I became interested in
intelligent control architectures. In mid 1986 I started my PhD
in Computer Science on intelligent control architectures for
mobile robot navigation. I received my PhD in early 1991 and
since July of that year I have been working in the Computer
Architectures group at ITD, DSTO.


                      Time:  6.00 - 6.30  (coffee)
                          6.30 - 7.30 (lecture)
                                    
          Venue: Lecture Theatre, Computer Science Department, 
                         University of Adelaide
                                    
     If there is sufficient demand, we will go for a meal after the
                     talk and continue discussions.
                                    
                Organiser: Ronnie Gori, (phone) 259 7124 
                        (email) rng@itd.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: aus.ai,melb.seminars
From: gifford@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (Jonathan Gifford)
Subject: Cognitive Science Seminar - Belief - Frank Jackson (ANU)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:38:23 GMT

		    THE  UNIVERSITY  OF  MELBOURNE
	    School of Information & Electrical Engineering
		    Department of Computer Science
				   
		  MELBOURNE COGNITIVE SCIENCE GROUP
			 1992 SEMINAR SERIES
				   
		    Friday 4th December at 3:00 pm
	   Conference Room, CITRI, 723 Swanston St. Carlton
				   
			  Prof Frank Jackson
			  Philosophy Program
		  Research School of Social Sciences
				 ANU
				   
			       'Belief'
				   
				   
Beliefs    are simultaneously  elements   in a scheme  for  explaining
behaviour and representational states. Thus, what a  person believes -
the  content of  their belief,  in  the jargon  -  both explains their
behaviour and is true or false according to whether things are the way
they are represented as  being.   Professor Jackson will  explain  how
this is possible in terms of  theory in which the fundamental elements
are not individual beliefs  but more or  less rich systems of  belief,
and which draws on the possible worlds way of looking at content.


               For further information, contact:

       Greg Wadley,       481 7382, wadley@cs.mu.oz.au, or
       Garry Briscoe,     419 5403, briscoe@cs.mu.oz.au
-- 
Jonathan Gifford        gifford@vis.citri.EDU.AU        gifford@cs.mu.OZ.AU
--- CITRI, 723 Swanston St, Carlton, VIC 3053, Australia  +61 3 2822475 ---
      He didn't say "thou shalt have dominion over a big wad of tofu"
From: makinc@hhcs.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Newsgroups: aus.radio
Subject: Re: VK2WI Weekly News, 8th November 1992
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:25:42 +1100
Distribution: aus
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services

In article <1992Nov7.075756.10439@runx.oz.au>, richardm@runx.oz.au (Richard Murnane) writes:
> VK2WI Broadcast, 8th November, 1992.  Copyright 1992 WIA

As a quick note, Richard I'd like to publicly thank you and Dave
for posting these broadcast notes.  It's a worthwhile service.

Carl.

-- 
Carl Makin, MVS/ESA Systems Programmer, VAX/VMS Dabbler. 
Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services, Canberra, Australia.
sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au!hhcs!makinc   -   UUCP
makinc@hhcs.gov.au		   -   Internet
vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc	   -   Packet Radio
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche)
Subject: Aircraft radio comms - polarisation ?
Reply-To: steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche)
Organization: Tower Technology, Sydney
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:12:44 GMT
Keywords: polarisation antennas

	Does anyone know what antenna polarisation is used
on aircraft and ground stations eg. control towers ?

	Is it a uniform standard across Australia ?


de steve


-- 
| Steven Blanche, Davidson, Sydney   | AARNet  steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au |
| vk2kfj%vk2kfj@vk2xsb.nsw.aus.oc    | wk phone :    +612-427-2999       |
| VK2KFJ [44.136.8.6] (4800@144.800) | wk fax   :    +612-427-7072       |
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche)
Subject: Re: Aircraft radio comms - polarisation ?
Reply-To: steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche)
Organization: Tower Technology, Sydney
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:42:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.142756.469@hhcs.gov.au> makinc@hhcs.gov.au (Carl Makin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.061244.18205@fawlty.towers.oz.au>, steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche) writes:
>
>> 	Does anyone know what antenna polarisation is used
>> on aircraft and ground stations eg. control towers ?
>
>Vertical.  Antennas on aircraft may be placed in a variety of
>places but the majority of them are placed with vertical
>polarisation.  All CAA ground to air comms are vertical.
>
From the replies to this question, it is obviously vertical, but
what techniques are used for antennas on planes, they obviously dont
mount 1/4 wave whips on the roof    ??



-- 
| Steven Blanche, Davidson, Sydney   | AARNet  steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au |
| vk2kfj%vk2kfj@vk2xsb.nsw.aus.oc    | wk phone :    +612-427-2999       |
| VK2KFJ [44.136.8.6] (4800@144.800) | wk fax   :    +612-427-7072       |
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: cheese@runx.oz.au (Mark Cheeseman)
Subject: Re: Antenna programs
Organization: Your Computer Magazine, Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:39:09 GMT

In article <u911661.721447069@bruny> u911661@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Mad Mal) writes:
>I am looking for antenna design programs for both the ibm and the Amiga ..

There's a couple of IBM programs for designing Yagis floating around - called
YAGIMAX and YAGINEC (from memory). They came over the ham distribution net a
while ago, so most any BBS that carries amateur radio stuff will have them.
If you can't find them elsewhere, try my board [plug, plug] on (02) 399-9268,
if you don't mind a long-distance call.

-Mark

-- 
Mark Cheeseman, Your Computer. cheese@runx.oz.au  Fido: 3:712/412.0
Phn: +61 2 353 0143  Fax: +61 2 353 0720  AMPRnet: coming RSN!
This .sig is under warranty. Do not open. No user-serviceable parts inside.
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: andy@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Andrew Miehs)
Subject: Radar
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:02:28 GMT

G'Day..

I am after information concerning RADAR Detector units as used by the police..
IE: How they work, etc... frequencies and the like. (In Australia)

One other thing that I could never work out was their radar detector detectors...? It doesnt seem posible to pick up a reciever.... ( Not with any great accurAcy anyway.. cause wouldnt it just pick up your car radio?)
	
Thanx...

Please email me at andy@extro.ucc.su.oz.au


-- 
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Miehs                  |                                             |
| Mail: andy@extro.ucc.su.oz.au |       $$$ THIS SPACE FOR RENT $$$           |
| NB:   Don't call me andy!     |                                             |
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson)
Subject: Re: Aircraft radio comms - polarisation ?
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:52:20 GMT

steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au (Steve Blanche) writes:

>From the replies to this question, it is obviously vertical, but
>what techniques are used for antennas on planes, they obviously dont
>mount 1/4 wave whips on the roof    ??

yeh, I'd love to talk to an aircraft antennae designer .. for at least
a couple of hours .. I remember visiting fairburn (sp?) raaf base at
Canberra and being shown around a few aircraft by an electronics technician,
some of the antenna used on millitary aircraft are stunning in design ..
I still can't for the life of me see how they work .. they must be
modified discones or something .. jsut little lumps .. and longwires
and in some cases I think they do just stick a quarterwave ground plane
under the aircraft :-)

Terry





>-- 
>| Steven Blanche, Davidson, Sydney   | AARNet  steve@fawlty.towers.oz.au |
>| vk2kfj%vk2kfj@vk2xsb.nsw.aus.oc    | wk phone :    +612-427-2999       |
>| VK2KFJ [44.136.8.6] (4800@144.800) | wk fax   :    +612-427-7072       |
-- 
Terry Dawson, terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU, vk2ktj@gw.vk2ktj.ampr.org
+61 2 925 1556 (voice), +61 2 922 5973 (fax).   __\*/__  0^Ooooo _