From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: The Great Martyrdom Cult
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 12:34:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Sep27.070858.10273@pellns.alleg.edu>

9209.28 e.v.


Neijm eth Saddow quotes me and writes, I respond:

old Thyagi:

I disagree. The Jewish(?)/Christian/Witch(Pagan)/Satanist line of strict
heresy in the face of oppressive establishments is fairly isolated as far  
as I can see.  Hinduism and Buddhism, for example, with which I'm familiar  
are the stay-at-home, chanting/starvation-types.  There is no martyrdom
fixation in their tradition.  


Neijm writes:

But there does tend to be a certain masochistic inclination.  


Response:

Quietism perhaps, maybe even masochism, but NOT martyrdom.  Note that
their personal focus ('the Buddha') was a rebellious upstart who went
on to teach an alternate path amidst those of like mind.  He did not
confront the orthodoxy (a la 'Jesus Christ') until they killed him.

 
old Thyagi:
 
No no no no no no, I'm not saying that the sects of the Martyrdom Cult
are the same.  I wouldn't say that Catholics behave the same as Lutherans.  
The point is that both the Catholics and Lutherans are CHRISTIANS.  I
think that, in similar fashion, the Witches (Pagans) and the Satanists
are part of the Great Martyrdom Cult.  This Cult is very clever.  It
is actually composed of some of the lowest levels of society.  When its
expression begins to be corrupted by the orthodoxy it assumes different
forms.
 
	
Neijm:

I find your theory of the Great Martyrdom Cult fascinating.  Would  
you go into more detail about it?  I would appreciate it.


Response:

That is my objective in this thread.  I thank you for your perceptive
questions.  Without them I might never understand it myself.
 

Neijm:

I've noticed a certain focus on how Satanists are persecuted in  
this newsgroup.  Aren't ALL religions persecuted by the ignorant?  As far  
as I have seen, it's a common occurence.


Response:

Again, persecution is not martyrdom.  It gives RISE to martyrdom, but it
is not the same thing.
 

Neijm:

...I have had what I would presume to be similar  
problems trying to be Christian.  I've found Christians persecute  
Christians out of ignorance.  I don't think it's something exclusive to  
Satanists.  I think human nature desires to persecute, ridicule and  
deride.  Satanism is simply one of the smallest, more radical, nationally  
known religions.  It is easier to persecute Satanists because Satanism is  
a weaker religion than Christianity.  


Response:

Oppression occurs in any orthodox establishment.  It is a CLASS issue.


old Thyagi:

What you describe seems to me just the current face of the counter-culture  
fad.  Yes, a FAD, meaning that most of the 15-25 year olds will eventually  
give up these behaviors/appearances and settle into more moderate,  
conservative ways of being that conform to social standards.

	
Neijm:

The idea of settling down into more conservative ways frightens  
me.  Is it possible I will become conservative in the future?  The very  
fact that I doubt the possibility indicates that the change has begun. How  
old are you, Thyagi? 


Response:

I am older than Earth and Sky.  I am older than Sun and Moon.  I am older
than the Milky Way.

I am younger than the new day.  I am younger than your last breath.  I
am younger than Chaos.

I have seen the passing of 31 season cycles, approximately.


old Thyagi:

I'm talking about a bit larger picture here.  I'm attempting to understand  
what MAKES a Christian/Witch/Satanist and I think it is their individual
power.  Resistance to oppressive authority is what all of these at one time  
shared.  Just because modern Satanism has not been as corrupted as has what  
is now called 'Christianity' doesn't make it of a different tradition.
 
Let me put it another way.  The Great Martyrdom Cult is DYNAMIC.  It doesn't  
maintain the same image/label/location.  It is INSIDIOUS.  It can never be  
destroyed because it transcends conscious identification.  It is REBELLIOUS.  
It takes on the face of the Great Enemy and plays out the energies that
have been repressed by the Orthodoxy.   
 
I agree that not all those who engage modern Satanism/Witchcraft are
martyrs.  That is not my point.  


Neijm:

Intriguing.  The Great Martyrdom Cult is an ever changing religion  
characterized by the negative treatment it receives from the current  
religion in power.  Have I understood you correctly? 


Response:

Almost.  It is less characterized by the FACT that it receives such
negative treatment than by the fact that it inspires this treatment
through the use of words and images which are offensive to the orthodoxy.
It is the equivalent of a nightmare and the orthodox wish to see it
ended one way or another.


old Thyagi:

Because the RC Church is not Christian, not in the sense of the Great
Martyrdom Cult.  The ORIGINAL Christians, the ones who were opposed by the  
Roman Pagans (yes, Pagans weren't nonviolent or nonoppressive) were
martyrs.  When the Romans co-opted the language and behaviors of these
martyrs (in effect, CALLING themselves Christian without adopting the
values/theories), then the Cult submerged.  It resurfaced in Europe
in response to the RC Church and called themselves 'Witches' (and
even some, 'Satanists').  When this holocaust subsided the Cult submerged  
once more and has been recently resurfacing in the form of 'Witches',
and more often, 'Satanists' in response to the repressive Euro-American
Puritanism still rampant in our culture.
 
	
Neijm:

Could you identify any historical basis for this hypothesis?  I  
believe I understand you, but I am not convinced.  The Cult you mentioned  
doesn't seem to have any connection to the religions you mentioned other  
than by the fact that they were all persecuted by the more powerful  
religion of the time.


Response:

Well, I'm not a 'historian', nor am I convinced that 'history' is a very
important thing, but I'll address your question.

The terms 'Christian', 'Witch' and 'Satanist' have all become associated
by the orthodox at one time or another with 'heretic'.  The fact that
people intentionally seek out these terms and adopt them as BADGES under
which to practice their often inciting rites characterizes the GMC quite
adequately.

The GMC has an UNconscious connection, not a concious one.  In other words,
people may not have known that they were participants in the GMC.  It is
not some conscious thing that one 'joins' and supports.  It is an emotional,
subconscious energy-current which one contacts and is subsequently moved by.

The classic martyr identifies with the Shadow of popular culture, takes
on the identity for the surrounding society, and allows it to play out
its aggressions/repressions upon them.  The most aware individuals within
this Cult know that they are doing this (and thus have entire traditions
based upon them thereafter because of their success).  Most are quite
unaware of the process.

It is less a 'historical' connection, then, than a PSYCHOLOGICAL one.
Those of a religion are often of one language and of different mind.
Members of the GMC are of different appearance but of identical MIND.
 

old Thyagi:

The germinal form of the Great Martyrdom Cult (GMC) is what I call
The Heretics.  Satanists can be converted by a 'Church of Satan', but
it'll take a while to co-opt 'Heretics', since 'heretics' oppose all
doctrines and organizations, PERIOD.  You may, if you wish, see the
GMC as 'atheists' and as 'anarchists'.  These are the Scientific and
Political cultists, respectively.

	
Neijm:

What you have effectively described is what I prefer to call a  
scientist:  one who believes in nothing without proof.  A scientist  
believes in no religion because religion requires faith;  a scientist  
follows no law because laws restrict individual freedom.  Is this the type  
of individual to which you are referring?


Response:

This is not a typical definition for the term 'scientist', but I think that
it is quite appropriate.  I think that many of your words are loaded here
and that they may need additional contemplation before becoming useful.

What is 'proof'?  Who determines what this 'proof' will look like?
What is the value of acting on reason?
What is the compliment of individual freedom?  Is it also valuable?


I think that a true scientist is not, perhaps, a MARTYR, but is indeed
a person who wishes to KNOW rather than simply have faith.  I equate the
person whom I think you may be describing with those I'd call 'Gnostics',
or 'Mages'.  These are sometimes martyrs, but not always.
 

old Thyagi:

There are different stages that the Cult's forms undergo from the
time which they resurface until they are finally completely co-opted.
One of the first steps is the infiltration of their number with what
are today called 'white-light, bambis' who no more have an understanding
of what magick and social transformation is than does today's
average college student understand political activism.

	
Neijm:

Why do you mention college students in particular?  Do you believe  
that an increased understanding of politics only occurs after college or  
are you referring to a certain measure of maturity?  If you're referring  
to the latter, you're probably overgeneralizing. 


Response:

I mention college students for two reasons:

1) it was a metaphor which I think is applicable and may be directly
understood by the majority who read this newsgroup.

2) I referred to 'the average college student' and I think that, given
careful evaluation, we can compare the college student of the early to
late 1960's with those of today and find that they are not interested
in politics, but in economics (largely their own, 'How do I make $ as
quickly as possible?").  It is not a matter of maturity but of differing
cultural mechanisms.  1960's college students were becoming disenfranchised
and disoriented by the threat of conscription and the influence of
psychedelics.  Feminism was on the rise, etc. etc.  Today kids are just
somnambulistic, ON THE AVERAGE.  This can be said of all those who are
older than they are also. ;>

 
 
old Thyagi sig:

The only way to be a Satanist is to oppose all authority other than one's  
own.  The only variable is whether or not to take action against it.


Neijm:

This statement fits very well into my definition of a scientist.   
Perhaps we are more alike than either of us would wish to believe.


Response:

Perhaps so, though I'd like to hear more about what you think a 'scientist'
is and how this relates to the root of the word.


Neijm:

I make no solid statements.  I have no firm beliefs.


Response:

This I agree with.  Yet it doesn't make me a martyr.  It just makes me
a mystic and an elf. ;>


Thyagi
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Pesky elves!  :>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism