From: robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: armor, physics, and aluminum
Date: 26 Dec 92 10:20:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

>
>Aelfgar von Echternach writes:
>>	The purposes of SCA armor seem to me to be:  1) functional and
>>2) to _look_ authentic.  That's one of the nice things about aluminum, that
>>it will look like shiny steel, and is also quite functional in it's role
>>to protect.  The definition of functional is:  able to withstand the abuse
>>of a rattan mock sword, or other mock weapon.  These constraints 
>>necessarily divert our attentions from authentic armor.
>
>Vittorio del Fabbro replies:
>
>1. Aluminum doesn't look or sound like steel. Even Mr. O'Connor says so.
>(Stainless doesn't look like real steel either, but that's *my* problem.)

In my experience, steel, stainless, and aluminum all look pretty much alike
in their non-corroded state.  I will agree with you that most likely common
medieval steel had a coating of corrosion that would make it brownish
(such is the color of my current loaner knees), but I don't see why we
can't assume that armor has been well kept, and thus shiney (or perhaps
it's fresh from the armorer ;), which is why I don't think aluminum is 
visually distracting.  This lends to the knight in shining armor concept :).
As far as the sound goes--I can't imagine using aluminum for anything but
plates, and the sound of metal plates rubbing together I think is rather the
same.

>
>2. You seem to be arguing that the prevalent armor technology of the middle 
>ages was unable to protect its users from the abuse of a rattan sword, 

If you mean protect as in, getting nasty arm bruises and causing painful
damage to elbows and knees during repeated practices, yes, that is what
I mean.  I'm sure they had the _techology_ to protect against this, but since
they didn't actually practice with rattan, they didn't  bother.

>which we use because it is so much less lethal than the real thing. One 
>could conclude that medieval armor was therefore unable to protect its 
>users from the more lethal abuse of a steel sword or halberd,
<stuff deleted>

Quite the contrary, medieval armor was excellent protection against the 
lethal sword, because it covered the vital areas and was quite strong.
I think we both agree on that.
 
>3. In other words, "Steel can't stand up to rattan, so we shouldn't use it."

I see the point you are trying to make, that steel will hold up excellently
to rattan, and I quite agree.  My point is, so will aluminum, which
can be made to look period (IMHO).  I think the main reason I am on the
side of lighter body armor is because of comfort--lighter body armor won't
affect my fighting speed (since it is resting on my shoulders, not my arms),
and will greatly reduce fatigue, thus not robbing me of enjoyment of the game.
I'm not sure about the wieght arguments for arm armor--I can see how one
would want to minimize that explicitly to maintain good sword speed.  I think
this is fair in the sense that, since the minimum protection is elbows
(and forearms, at least in Ansteorra), adding neat looking plate arm armor
could be a severe penalty.  But I have no direct experience in that aspect.

<more stuff deleted, points generally well taken>
>Vittorio del Fabbro

I think the general point I'm trying to make is that, since the armor
we make for SCA fighting is meant to protect against concussions, bruises
and joint damage, as opposed to protecting against lethal sharpened weapons,
we necessarily have to make our armor differently, and from a different
approach.  I agree unequivocably that the armor should _look_ as period
as is feasible, as the end goal, while still functioning properly.  I don't
agree that deviances from period manufacture outside of this goal should
be frowned upon as un-SCA.  I do think that every effort that is made
towards period construction is commendible, though not required, and I will
be suitable impressed to see such examples in person.  I have absolutely
no qualm with others having their goal as to make as period armor as possible,
I believe it is their own right to choose their own goals.

Aelfgar von Echternach

P.S.  I am interested as to the details of Vittorio's armor, I would like
to know what amount and design of steel people are capable and are fighting
in, I think it would be most intriguing.  I think I'm stuck in declaritive
first person ;).  Merry Christmas all!

From: Shay.Wrobel@f302.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Shay Wrobel)
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