HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Indentation
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:40:04 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <1606@anagld.analytics.com>, sammy@anagld.analytics.com (Sam Blackburn) writes:

> Since our software was meant to be maintained by other programmers (as all
> software should be) we came up with some pretty basic rules like:
> 
> Open and close braces are MANDATORY:
> Illegal: if ( x != 0 ) x++;
> Legal: if ( x != 0 )
>        {
>           x++;
>        }
> 
> Abbreviating variable names is discouraged.
> Illegal: ce = 1;
> Legal: communications_error = 1;
> 
> Again, these rules are meant to produce code that will be maintainable for
> years to come.  Maintenance programmers spend way too much time figuring out
> what variable names really mean or what the original programmer was TRYING to
> do.  Programmers all too often code like e.e.cummings wrote poetry.  If you
> have to figure out the meaning of a line of code then it is wasted time (from
> a financial point of view).  CODE SHOULD BE WRITTEN TO BE MAINTAINED!

Bletch.

The trouble is that then it's easier to see what individual lines do, but the
broader picture is too badly obscured by all the superfluous blank space.
I'm not advocating the  

  int a=2,b=0,c=1;main(){for(;b<0||printf(a-49?"%d ":"\n",a),++a<50;
  b=b+b|(unsigned)-1/(c+=c+1));}

style of programming here, but:

  * having variables whose names are 10 characters or so in length means
    that single lines often have to extend over two or three screen-lines,
    with resulting difficulties in reading;

  * if 1/2 of the lines in your code are blank or almost blank, you can only
    see 1/2 as much of your program in one glance, and you can only fit 1/2
    as much on the screen at one time. This means much more paging back and
    forth to figure out what on earth is going on.

PS I can't claim credit for the above bit of code. Someone else wrote it.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge)
Subject: Re: Renumbering BASIC programs (was Re: Branching in HLL vs. Assembler)
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date:  7 Sep 92 07:21:55 GMT

In <1992Sep5.002719.28463@bert.eecs.uic.edu> artn@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Ellyn Sandor) writes:

>>>>	Bonus:  guess the BASIC's.
>
>1) The CASE trick was from the Sinclair ZX-80 (one person got it right)

Sinclair BASIC requires a LET keyword for assignments, so the
"one touch keyword" thingy would word.  (Note that on a Spectrum you'd
need 5 keystrokes for ATAN - ah well).

Line 1000 in the example would look like this on a ZX-80:
1000 NEXT =[S]1000+A*1000
where [S] is an inverted 'S' indicating a syntax error.

If it weren't for that, I'd have guessed a Sinclair basic (tho probably
Spectrum, since that was what I did most on).

Ob brain twitch:  how can
1000 LET N=1000+A*1000
be made to use less memory on a ZX Spectrum?

That was only 10 years ago...

	J
--
jeremy@sw.oz.au ph:+61 2 698 2322-x122 fax:+61 2 699 9174
The pumpkin.  The sheep.  My brother's wife.
From: hunt@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Hunt)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Coke machine at CMU
Date: 6 Sep 92 21:14:48 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <87501@netnews.upenn.edu> jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot) writes:
>I have recently heard of a Coke machine at CMU that is connected to the 
>Internet.  Anyone have the whole story???
>
>Kevin
>
>

Well, many people have replied about the CMU coke machine.  So now I'm
gonna tell you that its not the only coke machine on the 'Net.

Here at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) In Rochester NY, at 
Computer Science House (cool place full of computer geeks and others)
(Whoops, not posting from rit.. oh well.)

Anyway, at CSH, we have our own coke machine on the 'net.. although, right
now you can't get its status by fingering it because our systems are
rather flaky at the moment (Upgrading to X-Windows workstations on ethernet
in every dorm room at CSH - I believe we will be the first student
organization in the country/world to do so)  Anyway, the difference between
our coke machine and CMU's is that you don't drop drinks by putting money into
the machine, you give some money to one of the drink admins, and he puts it
into your drink account.  When you want a drink you log in, and tell tell it
that you want to drop X drink.. its pretty neat.  Like I said, it is a bit
flaky though.  The coke machine and the drinking fountain are on the same
circuit, and when the compressors on both machines cut in at the same time,
it drops a hawaiin punch! :)
I found it to be fun to log in occassionally over the summer from home and
drop a random drink. 
						-Tad
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:01:23 GMT

In article <Z95JDMD@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.090931.15236@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>>In article <T7ZIZMC@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep1.051740.16218@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>>>>Weinberg.  I mean really.  Get a grip, folks.  Master as many tools as
>>>>you need and use them wisely.  
>
>>>Bravo.
>
>>I totally agree with this;  so why are there so many respondants attempting
>>to say such crap as:
>
>>a)	hll is all you *ever* need.
>
>Who's saying that? I think you're creating a straw man here.

Read the archives of the thread.

>
>>b)	assembler knowledge doesn't improve your skills as a programmer at
>>all.
>
>This falls into the "master as many tools as you need" department. Lisp,
>Forth, C, Fortran, Smalltalk, and so on also improve your skills.
>
>A recent article in rec.humor.funny is particularly appropriate. A parody
>of a famous saying of Winston Churchill's:
>
>	He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no
>	heart. He who does so as an adult has no brain.
>
>I know how to drive a tractor, sail a catamaran, ride a surfboard, and
>so on... but I drive a car to work.

Who's creating the straw character here?

I drive a 5-speed manual; you sound like you drive a two-speed automatic.

>
>>Of course I might take exception to the word "need" because some would imply
>>it expediently means "can sneak by the boss who is a dim-bulb and get away
>>with it even though I know I could make it run better if I did x% of the
>>code in assembler".
>
>With x approaching zero as problem size increases.

Wrong, problem sizes never increase; top-down design just creates more
modules, not bigger ones.  The same problems are still in the same places, 
just that there are more of them.  So, the percentage doesn't change at all.

However, I will grant you that typical *poor* practice that praises 
expediency and mediocrity often goes in that direction.  But that's a 
statistical argument, not a technical merit one.


>-- 
>                                                                `-_-'
>                         Har du kramat din varg idag?            'U`
>
>Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032

cjl

Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13756 comp.unix.misc:3580
From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:11:11 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Could we /please/ stop this flaming - it was mildly interesting about a
thousand posts ago, but the examples have gotten worse and it's not
leading anywhere.  cjl is obviously not going to admit hll's have any
merits, and most others (including me) think using assembly for anything
bigger than a couple of hundred lines is usually a waste of time (but
there are admittedly exceptions).  This flame-fest has gone on for long
enough, and yes, I know how to use kill-files, but no, I don't like
them, and would rather see this thread moved to misc.test with possibly
interesting posts being posted here as well. 

Assembly is good mostly for device drivers and /really/ speed-critical
applications that can take advantage of quirks of the machine.  For
those purposes it's essential: but even then it's often possible to
embed it by using inline assembly or just a small routine that gets
called from a hll.  I consider myself fluent in assembly (68k and 386,
my 6502 is a bit rusty), and I have to admit that a good C compiler
(gcc) often gets the job done a hell of a lot faster, and the resulting
assembly is often better than I'd care to program.  Admittedly I usually
use constructs that I know translate well into asm (including goto's),
and I sometimes check the result of the compilation by reading the
assembler result.  But 99% of the time I'm quite happy to let the C
compiler take care of some tedium for me. 

Letting the compiler worry about most things gives me (a) more time to
get the job done and (b) lets me concentrate on the /important/ parts of
a program.  Even if the resultant code was much worse than what I could
write by hand, that's often reason enough to use a compiler (be it
pascal (ughh), C or Ada or whatever).  Even interpreted languages are
often fast enough to get the work done.  But when a compiler arguably
results in as good code as writing it by hand, the choice is pretty
obvious.  Yes, I can probably beat gcc on any given reasonable function,
but sheer boredom would probably result in worse code on average in a
bigger project. 

On the other hand, I use assembly (mostly in the form of inline macros)
just because some things simply /require/ them.  And believe me, there
are a lot of things that do - my current hack is an operating system,
and I use a inline assembly all over the place: usually hidden in macros
or inline functions, but they are there.  Other things (special number
formats like fixed precision or multiple-precision math) are also often
most easily coded in assembly for good performance.  So could you
*please* shut up, shake hands, and admit everybody is wrong (*). 

		Linus

(*)  And flame me as much as you like, I couldn't care less.  But do it
by mail, so that it gets lost in all the other mail I get. 
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13787 comp.unix.misc:3596
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 09 Sep 92 11:37:21 GMT
 ack.com> <7X0JVP5@taronga.com><1992Sep8.094005.15877@news.columbia.edu>
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu's message of 8 Sep 92 09:40:05 GMT

>>>>> On 8 Sep 92 09:40:05 GMT, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) said:

> Who cares if code written for one O/S does/does not run on another one.  When
> more than a few egocentric usenet types are using your code, then you can
> criticize what goes on.  In the mean time, most of these machines are *not*
> being used for what you imaginge they are used for.

Customers. Yours might be happy running under just DOS. Mine expect my code
to run on VMS and several different Unix flavours, and some of it under DOS
and MVS as well. Most of these people don't even have Usenet access.

Since your "these machines" has no referent, what they are being used for
is indeterminate.
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re:  The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:42:53 GMT

In article <liam.06m7@durie.amigans.gen.nz> liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:

>   O.K. then, the above code put onto some machines say... RS/6000, some
>IBM PC or clone therof, Amiga, NCR Tower, Unisys 1100/2200, U6000, some
>CP/M machine, really anything with a K&R C or ANSI C compiler. Compile it
>and it will run. Please show us the code to do this on the above list of
>machines in assembler.

OK, here is some assembler code that will run on every member (except
the 360/20) of IBM's 360, 370, 303x, 43xx, 308x, 3090, 9370, and 390 series 
of mainframes, plus the compatables from Amdahl, Hitachi et al that are 
running any flavor of OS (PCP, *MFT*, MVT, VS1, SVS, and MVS/*),  
or are running in CMS under the control of VM (any flavor):
 
	HELLO    CSECT
	         SAVE   (14,12)
	         LR     12,15
	         USING  HELLO,12
	         WTO    'Hello World.'
	         SR     15,15
	         RETURN (14,12)
	         END    HELLO

I may have the operands of SAVE & RESTORE off a bit (I usually use
different macros) but once corrected, this will assemble and execute
across the board in the IBM mainframe world.

Thats close to a hundred models from IBM and perhaps 50 from all
compatable mfgrs. and about 15 different versions of operating
system.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: bwatson@nyx.cs.du.edu (bruce watson)
Subject: Re: Sneakers
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 18:05:35 GMT

I was using a VT-100 in '73-'74.

--
Bruce Watson  wats@nyx.cs.du.edu  Toy Cows, Toy Cows in Africa, Toy Cows
From: mcastro@iris-dcp.es
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:32:48 +0200
Organization: REDIRIS, Red Nacional de I+D



you know [...] too long when you go to bed, start to sleep, 
and suddenly the little voices inside your head said:

you have running jobs
$

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.sport.football.pro
From: turnera@hubcap.clemson.edu (Allen Turner)
Subject: Re: Football Parity Error
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:55:08 GMT

amconn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

>Lately I've had to deal with memory parity errors on MSDOS systems. Yesterday,
>after spending some time swapping SIMMs and attempting to track down an error
>in a recalcitrant system, I went home and turned on the TV to watch the
>Giants-49ers game. Around 1635 EDT, in the upper left corner of the screen,
>there appeared for a few seconds the usual memory parity error message:

>Memory parity interrupt at <address>.
>Type (S)hut off NMI, (R)eboot, other keys to continue.

>Was I hallucinating? Did anyone else see this? What does it mean? Help me!

>Connor/Castigat ridendo mores

I saw the same thing,  I thought that it may be related to some of the
graphics that are displayed on the screen (i.e. scores, electronic blackboard
etc.).  But there was no apparent reason, at that point in the game, for
any graphics to appear.

I was also wondering if anyone noticed that...glad you brought it up.

Allen Turner
Clemson, South Carolina

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 02:21:00 GMT

In article <1685ED2C6.IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil) writes:
>As a college friend of mine said many years ago:  "The power is in the
>algebra."  We're only going to make hardware run so fast, then it'll
>be up to the quality of the software and the ability to exploit
>the hardware.

Fortunately for us who run this bloated software the hardware folks
didn't listen to your friend and seem to keep making the hardware go
faster, and faster, and f a s t e r . . .
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:58:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.050254.12657@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In any case, the point was made abundantly clear: there are untranslatable
>features expressable only in assembler.

Some languages allow access to any machine code instruction from quite a high
level (A-Natural, the C variant on the Bellmac-32, any Forth worth using),
and other high level languages allow access to any machine facility (PL/M,
for example, is about the same level as C and provides direct access to all
80x86 capabilities).
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
From: brian@sgmlinc.com (Brian E. Travis)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: What You See Is All You Get
Date: 6 Sep 92 06:23:47 GMT
Reply-To: brian@sgmlinc.com
Organization: SGML Associates


In article <1992Aug31.224543.23298@datamark.co.nz> thomas@datamark.co.nz writes:
 > There's no such thing as WYSIWYG until the display dpi is the same as
 > the output dpi.

or when coffee spilled on the terminal stains the page. 

Let's face it, WYSIWYG is just another hype word that should be 
categorized with "powerful", "easy-to-use", and "Version 2.0"

Brian.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re:  GOTOs
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:09:35 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: It's Home, really...

    When I had to program in COBOL the local rule(s) I remember ...
        A GOTO can be used to jump to an error handling paragraph within
        the current section. The movement will be down the code (as written)
        You will _not_ jump out of the current section.
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                 Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
               she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Subject: Re: what is halt_and_catch_fire?
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:45:14 GMT

In <kdarling.714348896@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:

...

>Yep :-)  The 6800's "HCF" instruction (either opcode $9D or $DD) did reads
>with the address lines always incrementing, according to the first article
>(that I know of) which mentioned this.  December '77 BYTE, I believe.

Correct. It was
  Gerry Wheeler, Computer Communications Network Group, University of Waterloo:
  "Undocumented M6800 Instructions", 
which listed six undocumented M6800 instructions and their definitions. 
One of these instructions was the the so called "Halt and Catch Fire 
(HCF)" instruction. These instructions, quoted from the above article
are

Name                  Mnemonic Op Code
----                  -------- -- ----
AND accumulators         NBA     14
store ACCA, immediate    STAA    87
store ACCB, immediate    STAB    C7
store SP, immediate      STS     8F
store IX, immediate      STX     CF
Halt and Catch Fire      HCF     9D or DD

The names of these instructions where invented by Wheeler.

HCF got its name because after that instruction the processor
ignored IRQ, NMI (non maskable interrupt) and HALT lines, so 
that "for all intents and purposes the processor has halted and
caught fire!".

Wolfgang Strobl
From: dtalmage@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Jargon 2.9.10 marked for Thinker hypertext
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:33:40 -0400
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

For you Jargon File fans, I've imported the ASCII Jargon File into 
Thinker, a hypertext system for Macs and Amigas (and DOS?) by Poor 
Person Software.  You can get it via anonymous FTP from guvax.georgetown.edu.
Look in the hypertext/thinker directory.

You'll also find there a demo version of Thinker 2.1.4 for the Amiga.  
It's freely distributable.

JARG2910.LHA;1        9-SEP-1992 18:00:17   701000/1370   (RWED,RE,,)
JARG2910.TXT;1        9-SEP-1992 18:01:58     1290/3      (RWED,RE,,)
THINK214.LZH;1        9-SEP-1992 18:02:47   227901/446    (RWED,RE,,)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Talmage (dtalmage@guvax.georgetown.edu)
"Once more.  This is deixis.  This is your brain on deixis.  Any questions?"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Sneakers
Organization: The Cat Factory
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:13:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.134430.8828@samba.oit.unc.edu> Michael.Welch@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Michael Welch) writes:
}
}  This isn't exactly a computer falacy in the film, but I _think_ I saw this:
}
}  When the guard is firing into the ceiling, his last _almost_ shot, he
}cocks the shotgun, right? If so, then when the main character pulls the
}panel away, the man cocks it again and an empty shell pops out. Continuity?

Maybe.  This question is probably more appropriate to rec.guns, but what
makes you think the ejected shell was empty? (Was the crimp obviously
blown out?) A pump shotgun will eject the shell in the chamber when you
work the action, regardless of its state.  People in high stress
situations often do odd things.

Of course, Hollyweird seldom gets these things right, anyway ...

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:13858 comp.unix.misc:3634
From: dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com (Don Nichols (DoN.))
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:32:51 GMT
Organization: D & D Data

In article <YR3JPIG@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.075544.25771@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

	[ ... ]

>>Wasn't Peter the one who said he felt no need to have/use a PC?
>
>An *IBM-PC*. I have three "PCs": two Amigas (a 3000 and a 1000) and a Mac.

	I think that you forgot the UNIX-PC (the 3b1/7300), which I believe
is in your collection.  (And for those who don't know, the UNIX-PC does not
have to struggle with Intel's convoluted segment-register shuffling.  It is
based on the MC68010 cpu).

	[ ... ]

>>obFACT: most PC's are *not* on internet.
>
>Most *anything* is not on the Internet.

	Does that apply to "most Suns" even? :-) BTW, since the 'IP' in
TCP/IP means "Internet Protocol", and my local Suns and UNIX-PCs are
connected together by that protocol, they are by definition on *an
internet*, if not on *the Internet*.


-- 
Donald Nichols (DoN.)     | Voice (Days): (703) 704-2280 (Eves): (703) 938-4564
D&D Data                  |  Email: <dnichols@ceilidh.beartrack.com>
I said it - no one else   |         <nichols@nvl.army.mil>
	--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.misc