HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Please define a few abbreviations
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:39:08 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney

In article <59985@mimsy.umd.edu> jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes:
>>nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
>>
>>>	-   The difference between a throw-away pilot-chute and a
>>>	    pull-out pilot chute.

>	Commonly called "throw-outs" vs "pull-outs".

Are they really called throw-outs in some areas.  I've never heard
them called that down here.  Always throw-aways.  But maybe I don't
listen hard enough.

>	A "pull out" pilot chute, however, is packed inside the
>	main container with the main.  A short bridle extends
>	from the pilot chute to a small handle outside the closed 
>	main container.  This short bridle is attached to the
>	main closing pin and to a small handle (or the "pud").

And pull-outs are still often called bunny-tails here, which I haven't
seen anyone else mention.  The original handles for pull-outs were big
and furry and looked like a little bunny-tail sitting on your bum.  The
name stuck even though modern handles look much different.  And are
much safer.  The old handles were very easy to dislodge accidently
causing a "floating bunny-tail".

>	The relative merits of each are still being argued 
>	(Generally by the throwout guys.)

Yeah.  They do seem to be the most insistent on starting arguments
about them.  Us pull-outs are much more easy going.  The APF Instructor
Manual has a statement in it saying "Pull-outs are dangerous.  Do not
use".  Which means that 50% of the Instructors here have to continually
convince themselves that the author was a throw-away bigot.  The other
50% think he's correct.


Bob V!
From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:12:57 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney

In article <6490@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>
>If memory serves well, a SOS system will cut away the main then pull the
>pin(s) that keep your reserve closed. It is all handled by one handle and
>different lengths of cables first cut off the main, then the reserve
>pin(s).

Actually 2 handles, linked by a grommet.  Ie, one handle pulls the
other.  So it acts as one handle.

>The problem associated with this set-up is that a nervous person will pull
>that handle so fast that the main might still be attached as the reserve
>opens. This did happen to a friend of mine once, and we all thought that
>she would die as her reserve was tearing up as she was going down: it was
>all burnt up. She made it but  all the surviving panels of the reserve
>could be ripped up by hand. Lucky gal.

I'd be surprised if miss timing of the SOS was the problem here.  More
likely some other reason why the main didn't release quick enough.
(But I wasn't there so I'm only guessing).  The original inventor of
the SOS did mucho testing to make sure it would work properly.  I'd be
interested in any information on the above problem if the SOS was
proved to be the problem.

>The trick with an SOS system is to pull twice: once to cut-away, so you
>pull on the handle maybe 6 inches then you *wait* 1/2 sec to one sec, then
>you resume the pulling such that the reserve will open. Of course, in the
>heat of the action, this is very hard to do.....

You're telling me.  I've tried to stage an SOS pull twice.  Niether
time worked.  The first time was an intentional cutaway.  I gently,
gently peeled the cutaway handle off the velcro and gently, gently
pulled so I wouldn't dislodge the reserve handle.  The main cutaway, I
let go of the handle and rearched expecting to be in freefall.
Instead, I got a jolt as my reserve opened.  I simply hadn't been
gentle enough.

The second time I was tried this was on my 3rd CRW jump.  This was the
the last round of a fun scrambles comp where CRW docks counted a point
each.  My training for the jump consisted of "Aim your canopy at my
back and I'll grab your lines.  And if we have a wrap, stage the pull on
that SOS".  (Hands up everyone who thinks this isn't looking
promising).  The inevitable happened.  We'd scored 13 rotations the
previous round but this round only made it to six before I hit him at
an angle.  Instant wrap.  I tried to stage the pull, but we were in
such a spin it was all could do to raise my hands to the SOS handle.
The centrifugal force then pulled it all for me.  In this case I was
thrown clear cleanly before my reserve had time to open.

Moral:  Don't use an SOS on CRW jumps.  Or an RSL.  (And a little bit
of training would be real useful too).


Bob V!
From: boucher@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Richard A Boucher Jr)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:55:53 GMT
Subject: You may pick up your pencils...
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving



All this talk about reserve rides and a couple of recent dreams about 
malfunctions have got me to wondering...

Statement: One cannot fully define one's commitment to or relationship with 
the sport of skydiving until one's first reserve ride.

 1. True or False?

 2. Explain your answer.
 
You have 30 minutes. Begin.

-RB
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: rig for sale
Date: 3 Sep 92 12:18:12 GMT

Reply-to: Paul.Stansberry@p0.f22.n233.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Stansberry)
Fido-To: romulus!cup.portal.com!eric_

Wednesday September 02 1992, romulus!cup.portal.com!Eric_J_Rainb writes to Skydive:

 rpcJR> make offers

Got a phone number I may reach you at?


--- GoldED 2.40
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 * Origin: The Workshop BBS (217-352-6168) - <V32b/HST> (FidoNet 1:233/22)
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Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM (Ben Daniels)
Subject: Re: Why is 25-100 jumps a dangerous transition time ??
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 20:17:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.112909.4012@ncar.ucar.edu> nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
> 2 recent post have included a line or two saying that jumps
> 25-100 are the most dangerous ones.  This concerns me a lot since I 
> plan on having completed 20 jumps by the end of September. Why is this a
> dangerous period of time and what can I do to avoid these
> problems/dangers ?
>

They are probably pointing at the 25-100 jump range because you know
enough to be out jumping on your own without supervision, but haven't
yet learned about all the pitfalls (actually you probably never do).

The best answer is to find some experienced people who are the kind
of skydiver you want to be and learn from them.

Part of what you learn is technique and lore (going to boogies and
larger drop zones can help with the inbreeding of small drop zones).
Part of it is not getting caught up in close in relative work too
soon and never really learning how to skydive.

Another facet is attitude and complacency. One time around jump #1750
I went out of a twin beech and scraped the top of the door and bent
my top pin 45 degrees. It was a pretty hard pull and I wondered about
it at the time but then forgot about it until I was closing my container
and there it was. Here was a new and critical change in my opening
sequence and I not only didn't stop to figure it out, I didn't even
remember it. Even worse than that I went up on the very next jump
and did exactly the same thing.

	(first we have to get his attention
	(then we can teach him something
	( ...

Skratch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email:  bdaniels@ssf-sys.DHL.COM
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: PC's (nothing to do with computers)
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:48:01 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <3442@ra.nrl.navy.mil> (wine@stress1.nrl.navy.mil) writes:
>
>I have a copy of the Paracommanders manual (from Paragear) and found it interesting
>reading.  To those newer to the sport than myself: a paracommander is a brand of round 'chute
>that were popular as "stearable" 'chutes before the ram-air came on the scene.  The manual
>gives one a better idea of how easy we have it now.
>
>? To anyone that has used/packed a PC:  The manual compares the pack volumes of the various PC's
>with respect to the origional PC, but how big is that???  Can a PC fit in a Vector container (main).  What
>changes have to be made to the packing instructions to do so?  Does anyone do this? 
>
I doubt very much that you could pack a para-commander in a vector or any
"modern" rig. When I jumped PCs, they packed big! I had a piggyback rig
and it was voluminous!

>I heard that some boogies are having round - accuracy compatitions for fun.  ?TRUE/FALSE??
>
>I would like to jump a PC sometime, but I am concerned that any 'chute as old as PC's would not be
>airworthy.  Any advice?

Well, have it inspected by a qualified rigger.

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Dumpster accident
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 23:36:01 GMT

In article <92241.155922DJY100@psuvm.psu.edu> <DJY100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Hey King,  very funny
>
>-djy

Dave????

You're ugly, and your wife dresses you funny!!!!

-Me
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:39:38 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Sep2.101257.25935@pta.pyramid.com.au> bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) writes:
>In article <6490@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:
>>
>>If memory serves well, a SOS system will cut away the main then pull the
>>pin(s) that keep your reserve closed. It is all handled by one handle and
>>different lengths of cables first cut off the main, then the reserve
>>pin(s).
>
>Actually 2 handles, linked by a grommet.  Ie, one handle pulls the
>other.  So it acts as one handle.
>
>>The problem associated with this set-up is that a nervous person will pull
>>that handle so fast that the main might still be attached as the reserve
>>opens. This did happen to a friend of mine once, and we all thought that
>>she would die as her reserve was tearing up as she was going down: it was
>>all burnt up. She made it but  all the surviving panels of the reserve
>>could be ripped up by hand. Lucky gal.
>
>I'd be surprised if miss timing of the SOS was the problem here.  More
>likely some other reason why the main didn't release quick enough.
>(But I wasn't there so I'm only guessing).  The original inventor of
>the SOS did mucho testing to make sure it would work properly.  I'd be
>interested in any information on the above problem if the SOS was
>proved to be the problem.

Well, that happened so long ago that I forgot!
I seem to remember that she had a kiwi rig and did not have a 3 ring set
up by another one where the parts were 4 sided. Maybe a rigger could
"jump" in in here and referesh my memory.
In any case, when she cut away, the main did not go right away and the
reserve was opening (or still deploying)  and got burnt by the main risers
when the main finally cut away.
After that event, everyone at the drop zone was discussing the SOS thing
and this is when the staged concept came in.
>
>>The trick with an SOS system is to pull twice: once to cut-away, so you
>>pull on the handle maybe 6 inches then you *wait* 1/2 sec to one sec, then
>>you resume the pulling such that the reserve will open. Of course, in the
>>heat of the action, this is very hard to do.....
>
>You're telling me.  I've tried to stage an SOS pull twice.  Niether
>time worked.  The first time was an intentional cutaway.  I gently,
>gently peeled the cutaway handle off the velcro and gently, gently
>pulled so I wouldn't dislodge the reserve handle.  The main cutaway, I
>let go of the handle and rearched expecting to be in freefall.
>Instead, I got a jolt as my reserve opened.  I simply hadn't been
>gentle enough.

Yes, it seems easier said than done....
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn)
Subject: Re: how often does this happen?
Reply-To: sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:30:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.021338.462@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>  
bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church) writes:
>I don't work with students but wanted to throw this out to those who do.
>What about using an actual throwout on student rigs? 

Hmm..it's funny that you ask.  My DZ has a waiver from USPA to use a  
student training technique called IAD - Instructor Assisted Deployment.   
Basically, it means that our student gear has a throwout pilot chute on it  
instead of a ripcord.  Here's a typical jump run for one of our students:

JM:	OK, this is jump run.  It's time to get on your knees.
Stud:	Do you have my pilot chute?
JM:	Yes, here it is (shows it to stud - takes pilot chute in right 
	hand, S-folds it, and takes all but two feet of bridle in hand).
JM:	DOOR!
JM:	Stand By!
JM:	Climb Out! (JM keeps right hand behind student in student's 
	burble and climbs out with student.)
Stud:	Check In!
JM:	Skydive!
Stud releases fingers.  As fingers clear strut (of a Cessna) JM throws  
pilot chute into the air stream.  Pilot chute inflates and pulls open main  
canopy.

On an IAD student jump, I have to climb out with the student when he/she  
climbs out.  And when the student looks back at me, I am right there with  
them, just a few inches away.

>Would having a system
>where you don't have to break an arch or look be a help? I don't see how
>someone could accidentally pull a cutaway handle when going for a pilot 
>chute mounted on thier butt.

Well, there's one thing about student gear.  It's really big.  It has to  
be, we put big, slow, docile canopies in them.  That means that it is  
difficult to see the pilot chute that is sitting on your butt without  
breaking your arch.  We compensate for this by teaching the students to be  
able to find the pilot chute (actually practice pilot chute) without  
having to break their arch to look for it.  This is done by maintaining an  
arch and looking under the right armpit.

We have had nothing but overwhelming success with this system.  We sell  
many more returning student tickets than we do first jump tickets.  And  
every year we have a fairly large number of students who get off student  
status.  Thus the safety of the transitioning process is very important to  
us.  Since this system requires no transitioning process it works out as  
being very safe and meets our needs quite well.  

Anyone that has any questions about this system is more than welcome to  
ask them of me.

Blue (calm) skies!  - Yes, it was VERY windy here this weekend >:-{
- sparkie
From: jld@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Jeffrey DeMent)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: New England drop zone & tandem question
Summary: AFF Level 1 vs. Tandem
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:56:33 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <95pJ02jP208B01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> drp40@cd.amdahl.com writes:
>In article <745.2AA60ED4@ehsnet.fidonet.org>, SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) writes:
>>If you know you are going to get into skydiving and are not just 'trying it out' 
>>then you should skip the tandems and go AFF.  It's an added expense.  Although 
>>doing ONE might be worthwhile.
>
>I *highly* recommend that you do a tandem before AFF.  Your first skydive will be
>pretty wild--you're in a completely new environment.  AFF #1 seems to me to be a
>little too overwhealming.  To much to experience, too much to do for a first jump.
>
>-- 
>Doug Puchalski						drp40@cd.amdahl.com

I agree 100% with Doug's comments.  My wife and I both went through AFF
after doing two tandem jumps (which counted as our AFF Level 1 jump).
We both felt your first skydive is such a completely foreign experience
that it's much better to *just enjoy* that first jump and get some sense
of freefall before actually trying to learn skydiving.

My brother - who also happens to work for Amdahl Doug :) - went directly
into AFF and was sort of disappointed after his Level 1 jump.  He's pretty
much a genius, and was really unhappy with himself for not remembering his
whole dive and doing everything perfect.  Basically he found out he could
not *think his way through the dive* and that was one of his few experiences
where this mind was not enough.

Long post to a short item - I'm with Doug on this one.
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: esj@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Subject: Re: AADs
Reply-To: esj@wasp.eng.ufl.edu (Eric S. Johnson)
Organization: U of Florida Engineering Computing Services
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 04:03:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.192447.130@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> koning@koning.enet.dec.com writes:
>
>This topic may well set off another vigorous debate, but I'll ask it anyway:
>I'm looking for opinions on AADs, specifically on the Cypres.  
>
>For example: (a) do you have one (b) do you want to get one, 
>(c) would you recommend them to others (in particular to those with modest 
>experience, e.g., around 80 jumps), (d) do you dislike them (if so, why?)

Ack. The AAD question. Why am I bothering to post ;-) (I guess it is 'cause
a couple of folks have said they fear posting on these contraversial issues.
I say lets argue a bit and all be informed better. )

I like the cypress. I have a number of friends who have them (the number
being 3, and by friends I guess I mean people I jump with more then once 
or twice a month) 

As a rigger, I find them easy pack around. (but the same could be said 
for a sentinal. I have no experience packing a rig with a FXC). 

I have yet to see one misfire high. In fact, I have yet to see one fire.

IMHO I think good solid AAD's are the wave of the future. 

I dont fear jumping with one, or jumping with someone who has a 
cypress installed. I can't say this for Sentinals or FXC's.

In contrast, I don't think Ill buy one. 

Ej
(going to the wind tunnel at PF this weekend, no rig no AAD)
(BTW I plan to take you up on that *offer* of beer, Jerry ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service))
Subject: Re: New England drop zone & tandem question
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:05:07 GMT

>In article <745.2AA60ED4@ehsnet.fidonet.org>, SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) writes:
>>If you know you are going to get into skydiving and are not just 'trying it out' 
>>then you should skip the tandems and go AFF.  It's an added expense.  Although 
>>doing ONE might be worthwhile.
>
>I *highly* recommend that you do a tandem before AFF.  Your first skydive will be
>pretty wild--you're in a completely new environment.  AFF #1 seems to me to be a
>little too overwhealming.  To much to experience, too much to do for a first jump.
>

Never having done a tandem jump, I can`t really recommend or discourage 
someone from doing one.  I do disagree with your statement that AFF is too overwhelming.
I made my AFF level 1 jump a few months ago. I felt the ground class proceeding the jump 
prepared me completely.  Even though we were taught that we were responsible
for our own safety, remeber you have two Jumpmasters with you to help ensure  your
jump goes as planned.  The fact that there has only been one death in the 11 year
AFF program speaks for itself.
The only thing that overwhelmed me was the first time the door opened :-) . 
I don't think you can sufficiently describe that experience to 
anybody.... WHAT A RUSH !!!!.


	Eddie
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: My first jump.
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:20:18 GMT

Reply-to: Paul.Stansberry@p0.f22.n233.z1.fidonet.org (Paul Stansberry)
Fido-To: romulus!uunet.uu.net!mark%vi

Monday August 24 1992, romulus!uunet.uu.net!mark%virtech%v writes to Skydive:

 run> Congrats!  UGH! Hit return every once in a while while typing in the
 run> message! Your posting came through sort-of-garbled because it's one
 run> big line.

Thanks Mark for the input.  Since I am on FidoNet, my editor is full
screen, and I didn't know I needed to put carriage returns at the
end of my sentenses.  My editor normally wraps my lines automagically,
but I guess it gets grunged by the conversion to internet.  I hit
enter at the end of each of these lines, please tell me if it came
out ok.  If not, I will find a different way of replying. (ie:internet)

Paul Stansberry


--- GoldED 2.40
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 * Origin: The Workshop BBS (217-352-6168) - <V32b/HST> (FidoNet 1:233/22)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: bleck@aztec.ai.mit.edu (Olaf Bleck)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Dumpster accident
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:45:54 GMT
Reply-To: bleck@ai.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Aug28.122604.15742@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, ks@acn.purdue.edu (Kirk Smith) writes:
|> From what I could tell, it wasn't a low hook turn into a dumpster.  It looked more
|> like straight and level flight towards a dumpster, followed by a last second effort
|> to turn away, which actually swung his legs towards the dumpster.
|> 
|> There may have been a little turbulence encountered which made his canopy veer
|> slightly towards the dumpster, but it looked like his entire final approach was
|> aimed at or near the dumpster.  It was not pretty.


Ditto--I heard him flying over me (i.e his slider was flapping pretty good),
which was a few hundred feet from the dumpster, and then a thump when he hit.
I suspect if he did a hook turn, it was fairly high up.

There was a thing going on to kick an inflatable Bud Man in the head, which
he might have been trying to do, but I doubt it.

-Olaf
From: fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: 11-Cell Canopy Question
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:04:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1992Sep2.170400.1
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep2.151434.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
> Does anyone out there jump an 11 cell canopy (like the AR11)?? I'm just asking
> out of curiosity. Here at our small DZ we don't see a large variety of
> gear and I'm just trying to get some idea of what's out there and what's new.
> 
> Brandon

*we* have a DZ?  And here i thought nobody jumped up here but us military
types...
 
Does anyone in this group maintain an (inter)national list of clubs or other
organizations that regularly sponsor jumps?
 
James Zuelow
FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@virtech.uucp (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Squelch That Herd Boogie Speculation
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 12:29:54 GMT

dean.kaflowitz (decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:
: The Drop Zone looks great, is quite prepared, and all
: is in readiness.

Yeah!
-- 
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving