Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:06:39 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 592

In this issue:
                          Toyota ... oh what a
                            gay republicans?
                     One last clarifying statement
                              Babs Bush...
                              Babs Bush...
                     Fax numbers for angry letters
                         Blood Policy Question
                             Gay Marriages
                          AND THE SURVEY SAID!
                     California Board of Education
                      Bank of America; Wells Fargo
                     Americans with Diabilities Act
                                Rape...
                              subscription
         HIV+ woman requests to speak, Mary Fisher, Republican

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Donald Collier <jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Toyota ... oh what a
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:58:14 EST

> From: C_SWANSON@CCNODE.Colorado.EDU
> Subject: Toyota...Oh!! What a feeling!!
>
> You all may have heard this already, but Toyota dealerships in
> Australia ran an ad showing a gay couple...and the heading read

Yes, it is so. Also, they had a rep and booth at our picnic last summer
in Melbourne. Unfortunately, the ads have not been effective, so they
will probably not be continued. I posted something on a newspaper report
on the ineffectiveness of the ads a few months ago.

I should remark that a number of people were critical of the "cheap
(cynical) commercial ploy" by Toyota, and urged boycotting in protest.
There was no criticism from homophobes mentioned.

-
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   61+3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:04:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Loomis <ml3e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: gay republicans?

In reading, Mr. Pastor second post on the gay republican issue.  I noted
that he is factually in error.
Excerpts From Captions of internet.gaynet:
30-Jul-92  Re: gay republicans?           "David M. Pahnos"@andrew (5378)
>@THe party was formed to promote the ideas of small central gov't,
>little legislation, etc.

The Republican party was formed solely to stop the spread of slavery to
the territories.  The early party tried to straddle the fence on
economic issues and other issues.  It must also be remembered that
before the civil war, the Democratic party was the party of small
government and little legislation.  The Whigs who ended up in control of
the Republican party favored spending to spur economic growth and
favored tariffs.

Michael Loomis

------------------------------

X-Popmail-Charset: English
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 01:11:30 EDT
From: (bmcconne) <bmcconne@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>
Subject: One last clarifying statement

About BarPhone rates, re: Internet access. If and when we port our
services to Internet servers, there will be NO fees associated with
it for end users (there can't be) I made a typo in a previous message.

We now return to your regularily scheduled programming.

Brian
71460.1571@compuserve.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:52 CET
From: "Johnny Talbot, Systems (ext. 3721)" <TALBOTJ@AVALON.RFERL.ORG>
Subject: Babs Bush...

On the way to work this morning, I think I heard on MY fading IN and OUT
radio THAT barbara BUSH is going to speak at the convention surrounded
by hear 6 or so children and her 27 or so grandchildren.  Talking about
"Family Values" no doubt.  No doubt I'll vomit everything I've eaten since
the Reagan Administration...   BLECK!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:13 CET
From: "Johnny Talbot, Systems (ext. 3721)" <TALBOTJ@AVALON.RFERL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Babs Bush...

They will probably have her sitting on stage in an antique rocking chair
with a quilt thrown over her legs knitting baby booties...  "Let's chat
about "Family Values"."  ICK!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:06:22 +0200
From: dante@tid.es (Donn Hoffman)
Subject: Fax numbers for angry letters

Tim Cook <timc@kbss.bt.co.uk> writes from the United Kingdom:

   Can I ask a favour to those who post addresses/phone numbers so we can
   write/call our support. Can you put the regular phone/fax numbers as well
   as the toll free ones. Not all countires outside of the US can dial toll-free
   numbers (we used to be able to in the UK but not any more).

Amen!  I am in the habit of firing off a fax to cheer or boo in
solidarity with my sisters or approbation of bigots.  But calling is
expensive, writing impractical (airmail from where I live takes at
least two weeks and gets there only half the time), and toll-free
is impossible.

I'd like to believe that when people (especially Americans) get a fax
from overseas it has added impact.  When I wrote to the Lancaster
County sheriff asking him to investigate the bombing of a lesbian
bookstore I got a handwritten reply;  the Corvallis Oregon Chamber of
Commerce wrote back too.  Nobody I know state-side got a response from
these people.

So folks, whenever possible please post fax numbers along with
addresses and voice numbers.  Otherwise I have to put my angry words
into a bottle and toss them into the Atlantic!

- ---
Donn Hoffman -- Telefonica Investigacion y Desarollo
Internet: dante@tid.es        Voice/fax: +34 1 594 52 57
Disclaimer: My employer doesn't know what email is.
* Automatic replies to this message probably won't work.
* If your mailer can't find Spain, try: dante%tid.es@mcsun.eu.net

------------------------------

From: "Mathieu Baissac" <mbai@cheshire.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Blood Policy Question
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 07:39:49 -0500

I just learned that the Univ. of Chicago hospital refuses blood
donation from Gays, Lesbians & Bisexuals irregardless of sexual
practice, frequency or history.

Does anyone know if this is common? I have never heard of anything
like it and was wondering before I made a big stink.

Thanks,

Mathieu Baissac

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 09:11:09 EDT
From: ksr@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu (Kimberly Rizvi)
Posted-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 09:11:09 EDT
Subject: Gay Marriages

This was brought up a while ago, but I believe the only two countries
where gay couples can legally marry are the Netherlands and Denmark.
I don't think it's legal in Norway or Sweden.  Check out the very
funny book Are You Two...Together? by Lindsay Van Gelder and Pamela
something or other - it's a travel guide to gay Europe and they talk
about getting married.

------------------------------

Date:        Thu, 30 Jul 92 08:50:29 EDT
From: "AAKL000@CATCC.bitnet  Kevin S. Lowery Catonsville"
 <AAKL%CATCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: AND THE SURVEY SAID!

> Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:10:35 EDT
> From: THOMASL@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU
> Subject:      survey for class
>
> Hi,
>    the following post is a survey i need to distribute for a research paper I
> am working on for one of my classes.  I figured this would be a good way to
> collect a large sampling.  The paper is on role playing(i.e.butch/fem) in same
> sex couples.  If people could take the time to fill it out and send it back to
> me directly at THOMASL@DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU.  All replies will be kept confiden
> ial.  All headers,addresses, or anything which could identify someone will be
> removed immediately.  If anyone has any other comments about the survey, pleas
> reply seperately and I will try to resond.  However this survey is only for an
> assigned paper.  It is not intended to inply anything or insult anyone. In fac
> I'm hoping it will dispell a few myths that have been prevelant in the class.
>    Thanks for taking the time to help out.  I will post the overall results of
> the entire survey(not just stuff from the net) if people are interested.
>
>
> Age   31                   Sex   Male
> Sexual Orientation (gay or bisexual) Gay
> Region of the country   Mid-Atlantic
>
> Describe where you live(city/suberb/country;liberal/conservative)

I live in a major urban area, but grew up in a rural section that has
recently become more "suburban" in nature.

> Level of education/major(if appropriate)  A.A. General Studies
> How long have you been out?  two years
> Were you ever in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex?
  Yes
> Are you or have you been in a same sex relationship?
  I presently am.
> Is there a difference in your "role" in a same sex relationship than a relatio
> ship with a member of the opposite sex?
  I am more of a bottom, but as far as butch/fem roles not much of that
applies.  We are both fem at some times and butch at other times.  So, I
guess we are a combination of both.
>
> Please answer the following questions in relation to same sex couples. If your
> editor allows it, please just put an x in the appropriate column. If not,pleas
> just either respond immediately below or with the number to the question and
> use y=you, p=your partner, b=both, n=neither.  If you are currently in a rela-
>
> tionship, please answer in regards to that.  If you are not, please answer in
> terms of what you think is your typical relationship.
>
>                                                you     your    both   neither
>                                                       partner
>
> 1. Who provides most financial support?                 x
> 2. Who does most of the cleaning?               x
> 3. Who does most of the cooking?                x
> 4. If there are children, who is primary        x
>    caretaker?
>    Are they the "biological" parent?            x
> 5. Who makes the major decisions?                                x
> 6. Does anyone have "veto" power?                                x
> 7. Do either of you work in traditionally       n/a
>    male feilds(ex engineering,constuction,etc.)
> 8. Do either of you work in traditionally       no
>    female feilds( ex teacher, secretary, ect)                    x
> 9. Would you describe either of you as
>    masculine or butch?
> 10.would you describe either of you as feminine?                 x
> 11.Who pays the bills?                                           x
> 12. Who takes care of the car?                         x
> 13. Who does the "manual" labor?                                 x
> 14. Who initiates sex?                                           x
> 15. Who decides if you have sex?                                 x
> 16. Whose career is more important?                    x
> 17. Are either of you into sports?               no
> 18. Who takes care of the house/yard repairs?    live in condo
> 19. Who does the grocery shoping?                                x
> 20. If you own/rent whose name is the morgage/         x
>     lease in?
> 21. Whose name is the car in?                  x
> 22. Who is more assertive/agressive?           x
> 23. Who is more emotionally supportive?        x
> 24. Are either of you into "SM"?               absolutely not!
> 25. Do you think there are gender roles
>     in your same sex relationships?            no
> 26. Who is older?                                      x

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 92 08:30 PDT
From: Chad Jones                           <IBN7CEJ@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: California Board of Education

The following is excerpted from a column in today's (7/30/92) Los Angeles Times,
 section E page 1.

'Family Values' Debate Is Test of State's Pluralism
by Tim Rutten

	Decency and common sense suffered a particularly ominous setback in Sacramento
this week, when the
State Board of Education appeared to cave in to a vocal group of religious extre
mists and ordered
its curriculum commission to revise a new set of guidelines for health educat8on
 in public
schools....

The guidelines' critics were particularly incensed by the wording of a paragraph
 of the 103-page
document that read:
'The traditional family, with two married parents and one or more children, is o
ne model.  Others
that are a part of contemporary society include blended families and families he
aded by
grandparents, siblings, relatives, friends, foster parents and parents of the sa
me sex.?
According to testimony by David Llewelyn, director of the Western Center for Law
 and Religious
Freedom--an organization that provides legal representation to a variety of righ
t-wing religious
groups--that paragraph offends because 'it treats the traditional family as the
equal of other kinds
of families.'...

I don't know about your neighborhood, but that paragraph rather concisely descri
bes the families
that live near me.  But, for the Board of Education, objections expressed by Lle
welyn, [Rev. Lou]
'heldon and others were enough to send the guidelines back to never-never land f
or revision.
There is much that is disturbing about that decision.  But perhaps most troublin
g is the way in

which those who oppose not only legal rights for gays and lesbians, but also rec
ognition of their
very existence, continue to batter the appropriate separation of church and stat
e....
Despite its virtues, theology is an imprecise, often misleading guide to the pra
ctical resolution of
public policy questions, particularly in a pluralistic society such as ours.

That, I think is worth recalling because today in California those who publicly
oppose extending
basic legal protections against discrimination to gay and lesbian people are alm
ost exclusively
members of relatively small, sectarian groups.

Last year, their views were decisive in persuading Gov. Pete Wilson to veto a me
asure that would
have extended existing legal prohibitions against discrimination in employment t
o gays and lesbians.
 I asked the measure's sponsor, Democratic Assemblyman Terry Friedman of Los Ang
eles, whether he
thought Wilson's decision and that of the Board of Education had anything in com
mon.
'I think there probably are a lot of people, myself included, whose support for
gay rights is
directly rooted in their own religious beliefs,' he said.  'So, I don't think an
yone wants to
exclude religious values from this or any other debate.  The danger comes when a
 single group tries
to impose its particular religious views on everyone else.  Often,  though, it i
s hard to know
precisely where to draw that line....

'Their [the opponents of the new curriculum] particular religious convictions ha
ve led them to
conclude that only one kind of family is morally acceptable.  But their desire t
o promote one kind
of family distorts the facts, and shouldn't be acceptable to any of us.'...

The American tradition of separating church and state has evolved a considerable
 distance since the
founders conceived it as a barrier to the manifest injustice of an established c
hurch.  In our own
century, enlightened and conscientious courts have construed it as a barrier to
the state?s
intrusion into liberty of conscience as expressed in religious practice.

More recently, as our common appreciation of pluralism as a condition to be valu
ed and not simply
endured has deepened, we have come to respect among our lawmakers a variety of e
xpressions of
individual conscience, so long as we are confident that they, in fact, are indiv
idual and not
dictated from the pulpit.

That distinction is crucial, particularly in the debate over gay rights.

Sometime in the next few months, the state legislature will send to Gov. Wilson?
s desk a reworked
version of Friedman's anti-discrimination bill, now called AB 2601.

How he chooses to deal with it will be a test not only of political wills, but a
lso of California?s
fidelity to democratic pluralism itself.

- -------------------end of article-------------------------------------------

Chad Jones
UCLA Department of Physiological Sciene

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 92 13:38:43 MST
From: "Gabriel (in New Mexico)" <G9348712%NMSUVM1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      Bank of America; Wells Fargo

I called these folks today to congratulate them on their pressure tactic
on the Boy Scouts.  The Wells Fargo representative said, "Thank you," and
that was it.  The Bank of America rep asked me to be more specific, and I
said I wanted the BSA to change, and that BofA's method might achieve that
end; she responded that this was precisely their motive: not to punish but
to change.  (What would she have said if I had offered something else?)
I had already called Levi's a while back.

Gabriel (in New Mexico)

------------------------------

Date: 31 Jul 92 08:52:00 CST
From: "MSUVX2::CONLEY" <CONLEY%MSUVX2.decnet@memstvx1.memst.edu>
Subject: RE:Americans with Diabilities Act

>From: b_blumberg@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)
>Subject: Americans with Diabilities Act
>Cc: gaynet@athena.mit.edu

>     If you want your very own copy of the Americans with Disabilities
>act, write or phone:

>House Document Room
>B-18, Annex #2
>Washington, DC   20515
>Phone:  (202) 225-3456

>     And just ask them for a copy.

>========================================
>Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
>815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
>(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM

	Thanks Bryan.  And everyone else for their Words-Of-Wisdom.
	Just sent them a letter for that copy.

	Oh, and about the "ADA against Homosexuals", I hope
	I didn't mean to sound negative or even harsh-hearted
	about this whole ordeal.  Please remember, in Memphis
	it's still considered the "Deep South".  My interpretation;
	........SLOW!.  		(Idle minds create idle gossip?)


				Later,
				Steven Conlee
				CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:08:16 EDT
From: SECSI003%SIVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Rape...

To the anonymous sender w/encounter group:

I think I would have to agree with your saying that rape is about power and
sex. I was raped 11 years ago, and successfully buried it so far down that I
almost never thought about it. Then last autumn, a guy tried to rape me. It
all came back. The combination of fear and anger is unlike any other situation
I've been in. Powerful anger that someone thinks he can get away with forcing
himself on you sexually and is actually trying to do so, accompanied by a
ghastly fear that he might succeed.
I've been beat up and put in the hospital, and that made me mad too. It hurt
more physically, but like you said, the nature of rape causes damage on a far
more widespread scale. I think my anger that night reacted to the power aspect
of rape, while my fear was of the sex side. I think your combination theory
is right. Fortunately, he didn't succeed, and all I got was some damaged
clothes.
I've not heard the nature of rape put so succintly--thanks!
                                          Steve

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:51:08 EDT
From: "Susan A. Spencer" <SSPENCER%PUCC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      subscription

add me to your discussion list.
thanks.
sue.

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:41:19 EDT
From: "Gary Klein (bear at heart)" <FAC2813%UOFT01.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      RE: HIV+ woman requests to speak, Mary Fisher, Republican

     Mary D. Fisher, the woman who asked to speak before the Republican
Convention about HIV and AIDS is not just part of a "so called" prominent
family, but the last name FISHER is the same family whose "Body by Fisher"
corporation was acquired by General Motors (years ago) whose products play
a crucial role in the cars built by Detroit.  (As goes GM, so goes the nation)

     How did Ms. Fisher catch HIV?

     Based on a press conference that she gave a year ago, when she wanted the
whole world to know that ANYONE could catch HIV, she noted how she had
relations with her ex-husband, and engaged in unprotected sex, not knowing
that he had acquired the virus (and further hinting that he, a wealthy man,
had picked it up while using drugs).  Surprisingly, Mr. Fisher never stepped
forward to hold any sort of press conference.

     The Fisher Family has been VERY PROMINENT in business & politics not
only in Detroit, but the name is well known across Michigan, and in
Republican circles.

     We are talking about a Caucasian Socialite who had unprotected sex!

     Wait till the "Family Values" folks find out that someone who would
probably pass as "one of their own" is going public about HIV, AIDS, sex
and the politics of inaction!!!!

     Even if they keep her off the schedule, I am sure that someone like
Larry King or Sonya (don't know her last name) would probably get her on
a television show.

WHERE IS MY CABLE TV WHEN I REALLY NEED IT!
Does anyone out there want to donate some bucks so I can connect to it.

"Librarian, Leather bound"
      * * * *          Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  Univ of Toledo
       *   *                     P.O.Box 12650 / Toledo OH 43606
        * *            WORK: 419-537-2629             HOME: 419-243-2740
         *             BITNET:   fac2813@uoft01        FAX: 419-537-2726
  B4 t+ w- g s+ k             INTERNET: fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
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