HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 1 Jan 1993 15:50:09 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


>> good chance that the defender is not completely sober

Spoken like a true Marine.  You're (Bill Cavanaugh) not LtCol Bill
Cavanaugh, lately of the US Marine Corps, are you?
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:51:40 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 4417@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>
>	Does this technique have a name, by the way?

We call it Momiji Hazushi - Red Mapel Escape. Red Mapel because
that's the color of your face as a result of the constriction. :-)

The variations are just numbered, 1, 2, 3, etc.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Kendo Newbie Question
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:23:06 GMT

In article <hurd.725661494@sfu.ca> hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd) writes:
>Hi, I'm planning on taking up Kendo after an intercontinental move this
>month, and have some questions.
>
>Like,
>
>  What will I be expected to bring to the dojo?  Will a gi suffice or is
>armour required?  If armour is required is it wisest to buy it in Sweden,
>or might it be cheaper to buy it in Vancouver and mail it across?  Same Q
>for other obvious equipment (such as the bamboo sword whose propper name
>keeps falling out of my head).

	You will probably not need the armor for a while since you should
	be spending your first month or two (at least!) learning the basic
	strikes (not as easy as it sounds).  If they have you a	xabanging away
	right off, I'd say there was something seriously wrong with the
	instruction, though I could be wrong .

	As for armor,  stuff like that seems to be very expensive in Europe.
	I'd try to get a handle on prices here and there before making any
	decision.  Here, you can get workable armor for around $400.  That
	is not top notch stuff, but should be serviceable for several years.

	A good shinai is probably worth the money, though.  It will be strong
	and well balanced.  Shinai will run you anywhere from about $14 to
	$350, depending on quality, or percieved quality.  I am honestly not
	an expert on these, so I could not tell you if such an expensive piece
	of work is worth it.  Kiyota (in Baltimore) has lots of nice items, but
	I'll warn you that they are a bit pricey.  If you need the address,
	let me know and I will dig it up for you.

	-Andy V.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:51:08 GMT
	<1992Dec31.024754.25064@microsoft.com>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: bobsarv@microsoft.com's message of 31 Dec 92 02:47:54 GMT


In article <1992Dec31.024754.25064@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

   /(todd)
   /Muay Thai is a very worthwhile art to study. The physical conditioning you get
   /is second to none and equalled by few. There are not many techniques, but they
   /are very street effective, fast, powerful, and simple. 


   This is what I was driving at when I said "why would anyone study anything
   else"?  I would want something that was clean, simple, and street-effective.

   Much of what I found out about taekwondo was that it was impractical in
   street defense, because so much of it depended on flamboyant kicking.  
   Imagine doing that on a gravel surface with three beers under your belt
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   (the most common situation where you might have to defend yourself to
   begin with).

Not for some of us.  

Please, if you're going to get inebriated and belligerent, don't blame 
a martial art because it doesn't bail you out.  

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: nelsons
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:42:56 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1284@xlnt.COM> david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson) writes:
>But have you ever escaped from a full nelson where the person
>applying it meant business?  

	I can assure you that this was not a classroom exercise.  

>I do not see how you can put your palms on your forehead if the FN is ap

	Have you tried?   Anyway, I just tossed that out for your - the
newsgroup's - information, not as a guaranteed failsafe escape.  All I can 
say is that _I've_ used it and it _has_ worked for me.
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
Date: 23 Dec 1992 03:18:58 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1h7h0cINN4dk@mirror.digex.com> robear@access.digex.com (Robear) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.043458.9486@reed.edu> mnoell@reed.edu (I'm done dammit!!!) writes:
>>
>>
>>	Please pardon my ignorance and skepticism, but can anyone document
>>these episodes in which a mother lifts a car to save her child?  I too have
>>Max
>
>Check the newpapers for a reasonably large city; it'll happen a few times a year.
>the last I remember in this area was last Spring in No. Va.
>	David "OOO...plastic bumpers" Pipes
> 
>

I managed to hold up my 67 Chevy Caprice after it slipped off the
jack while I was trying to change a tire on a steep hill in a
blizzard.  Long enough for a kid delivering Sunday newspapers to
block the front tires with the Allentown Call Chronical.

I'm still not sure I believe these stories though.  I was just too
scared to do anything except hold the car (alright, it wasn't
really my car-- it was my fathers).

I have a CD-ROM with a years worth of news (1990) from all the major
newspapers.  I was even able to search it and find the names of all
the VP's (from a copy I used to work for) who dumped their stock
just before filing  Chapter 11.  It's fairly comprehensive stuff.  If
someone can contribute some "key words" for the search, I'll look
and see how many recorded instances of mothers lifting cars off of
children I can find.  Then we'll know.  I'll report my findings.
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More ki/qi/chi & science
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:48:34 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec21.145820.25353@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>In article <75698@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>>It is innocuous to say that something is outside the realm of
>>scientific discourse. The issue of whether that characterization
>>invalidates an idea is a philosophical question quite separate
>>from its accessibility to scientific study.
>
>	My point is that these clean & pure distinctions that philosophers
>make are not at all reflected in everyday attitudes and subjective experience.

They are certainly reflected in mine. Of course, I have no basis on
which to claim that my experience can be generalized. If you are saying that
people are wrong to claim that any phenomenon that is not suitable
for scientific investigation is nonexistent, then I agree with you,
but it is a matter of (philosophical) opinion.

>	Scientists often conjecturing the existence of things which they have
>never directly observed, then asking the government for billions and billions
>of dollars to create instrumentation with which to _attempt_ to observe these
>hypothetical particles.
>	What's the difference? All these quarks (or whatever) are unobserved,
>purely theoretical and could very well only exist in the minds of the
>scientists (subjective enough, huh?).

If something can be measured with instruments then it isn't
purely subjective. If we define something as purely subjective,
then we are claiming that it can't be measured with instruments.
Why would you try to make instruments to measure something
about which the only thing you know is that it allegedly can't be
measured by instruments?

>	Besides, who ever actually *sees* things like mesons and neutrinos? All
>that is ever seen is their effect on the environment as they break down, or
>as they rip through a big vat of fluid.

Well then, they aren't purely subjective, are they?

>	One never actually *sees* qi, but one can observe it's effects. But in
>this instance, that's just not good enough to justify further research.

How do you know? The absence of compelling publications in peer-reviewed
journals could mean either nobody is investigating qi or that nobody's
investigations have turned up anything worth publishing yet. How do
you know which one is the case?

Are you saying that qi is a phenomenon that has objectively observable
effects? If so, then the reference to subjectivity above is a
red herring, isn't it? If not, then why should you care whether
any scientists pay any attention to it?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stbedi@peacock.uwaterloo.ca (Sunjay T. Bedi)
Subject: Escrima, arnis, kali in Vancouver, BC.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:38:22 GMT


I will be in Vancouver, B.C. over the Christmas  holidays and would
like to train with anyone studying Arnis, Kali, Escrima or Silat.  Does
anyone know of these type of schools in the Vancouver area?  Does
anyone want to train one on one with me?

Please e-mail me your responses...thanks.

Merry Christmas
Sunjay

-- 
 ============================================================================
 Sunjay T. Bedi                       | Internet: stbedi@peacock.waterloo.ca
 University of Waterloo ,Ontario, Can | Phone:    (519) 885-1211 x5297 
 ============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: poor technique
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:38:37 GMT


popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich) writes:

>There seem to be two main solutions to this problem.  At least in the
>tournaments that I've been to, they've both been in effect, with one
>backing up the other.
>
>(1) All attacks are focused short of where they would be focused in an
>actual fight.  That is, the attack goes to full extension, but that
>point at which the attack finishes is within an inch OUTSIDE the
>opponent's body, rather than an inch or more INSIDE, as they would be
>in an actual fight.  

    This is perhaps the worst way to do this!  

    Learning proper distancing (i.e. mastering that last inch or two)
    is very difficult.  It is much easier to switch from "pulling a
    punch" to "extending through" a target on command than it is to 
    suddenly adjust the ma-ai (distance) you've been practicing all
    these years.  That extra inch or two gives you a very dangerous
    false sense of security --

     -- Ted --


==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
Date: 28 Dec 92 00:55:34 GMT
Organization: Computists International
In-reply-to: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov's message of 24 Dec 92 03:05:30 GMT

I have no knowledge of specific incidents, but can suggest
a relevant variable.  People with Parkinson's Disease have
overactive muscles that "lock up" or otherwise interfere
with one another.  Movement can be so difficult as to approach
life-long paralysis.  Yet it is said that these same people
can exhibit extraordinary agility during emergencies.  I infer
that they might also exhibit extraordinary strength, since
the muscles are kept in good shape by their excessive activity.
A old woman with Parkinson's might well be able to lift a
car, or rip off its door, or walk along power lines to carry
a baby out of a burning house.

					-- Ken
--

Dr. Kenneth I. Laws; (415) 493-7390; laws@ai.sri.com.
Computists International, an AI/IS/CS mutual-aid association.
Ask about my career newsletter, The Computists' Communique.
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Gung-Fu
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:31:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <BSIMON.92Dec30121059@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:
>All the external styles of Kung Fu are derived from Shaolin, so the
>fact that a school teaches Shaolin Chuan-Fa doesn't tell much about
>what is actually taught.

This claim is probably at least an exaggeration. Shuai Chiao,
for example, is arguably older than the Shaolin Temple. In any
case, there seems to be very good evidence that Chinese
martial arts in general are older than the Shaolin Temple,
(but that the 'three sister' internal arts are not). In addition,
it also seems fairly clear that the Shaolin Temple repeatedly
adopted arts developed outside it.

Aside from all this, there are numerous Shaolin arts, and arts
derived in one way or another from Shaolin arts, and 'chuan fa'
just means 'boxing discipline', so your point stands: 'Shaolin
Chuan Fa' doesn't tell you much if anything about what is
being taught.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:49:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.131622.10306@cs.mun.ca> matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook) writes:
>
>Well, I don't know about you, but the only reason I move when these
>techniques are applied to me, is so that my wrist doesn't get ripped
>off.  The point of leverage of these attacks is at the wrist, so
>therefore if you don't move the wrist gets broken, and there is no more
>leverage.

	What's this about the writs?  Ugg... kote gaeshi is NOT a wrist
	technique, but one for the forearm.  What is practiced widely
	these days is a corruption, and is easily escaped.  

	Sounds like this should go into the FAQ since it has come up so
	many times in the past.

	-Andy V.
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: poor technique
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:23:45 GMT
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

Jonathan Byrd writes:

   This discussion arose when you said that the participants in karate
   tournaments "pretend" to hit.  You implied that techniques thrown in
   karate tournaments are somehow less than real.  That runs contrary to
   what I have seen.

   The blows thrown in some non full-contact karate tournaments are very
   real, even when both parties are exercising reasonable care to stay
   within the rules.  The line between "touch" and "hit" is inadvertently
   crossed quite often when both fighters are highly motivated to win.
   Sometimes when the line was crossed, I saw big, strong, spirited
   fighters disabled by a single blow.

I'd like to second this.  Most tourneys I've been in (*) disallow
head/face contact, but allow "light" body contact.  The
definitition of "light" is left as an exercise for the student,
and sometimes people get hurt.  I've also seen big, strong,
spirited fighters dropped by a single blow.  One brown belt
went down after being caught in the chest with a defensive
counter punch; it was 20 minutes before he got up again.
I've been caught by a kick that put me on the floor after
going through my block.  This was sparring in class, with another
black belt.

In both these instances, the contact was accidental.
The point is, despite the fact that each fighter was trying to
control their techniques, the potential effect of these techniques
was serious damage to an opponent.

Accidents happen.  Sparring is possible because people exercise
control of their techniques.  Sometimes this control is deficient,
just as other attributes of a technique (speed, timing, etc) may
be deficient.  But the fact that techniques are controlled in 
sparring does not make them ineffective in actual use.



(*) Note:	This was some time ago, in the Good Old Days(TM).


-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
From: bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 2 Jan 93 06:08:52 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises, Inc.

In article <1i1p7hINNs69@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
>
>>> good chance that the defender is not completely sober
>
>Spoken like a true Marine.  You're (Bill Cavanaugh) not LtCol Bill
>Cavanaugh, lately of the US Marine Corps, are you?

Nope.  I'm curious, though...  why is the idea that if a person spends a
night in a bar they're probably under the influence a Marine-like
statement?  I'm confused...

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@wisdom.bubble.org          *
XY + XX = :-)
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: attack vs. harmony
Date: 29 Dec 92 03:30:12 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <4448@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1992Dec24.231856.6361@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
> 	Ideally, there should be no confrontation.  The person who initiates
> conflict is disrupting harmonious existence.  I think that my responsibilty
> is to eliminate that conflict.  If a person shoves me all I must do is
> allow that force to slide harmlessly past.  If a person tries to stick me
> with a knife I may have to hurt him to make it impossible for him to disrupt
> the harmony of my bodily functions :-) but it would be an error to continue
> my attack once he is rendered harmless.
> 								wr

But when does the conflict begin?  Does it begin when I am staring off into
space and some guy thinks I'm giving him attitude and swings at me?  Does it
begin when he actually swings at me?  Does it begin when he decides to swing at
me but hasn't actually done it yet?  Would the conflict begin with me because I
have been oblivious, or with him because he has been overly sensitive?  If I am
careless in some action and someone gets offended by that action and swings at
me, am I at fault for my careless action?

Jeff
From: jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wooden Arms
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:37:09 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <1992Dec23.132339.8494@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> plw@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Paul L. White) writes:
>Hi,
>  Last year someone posted the address for a guy that manufactured/sold
>wooden weapons...Wooden Arms, somewhere in Texas?  Would someone please
>post it again? Mr. Northcutt perhaps?
>
>Paul White
>plw@ray.com
>
>==========================
>Opinions expressed here are
>not those of Raytheon Co.
>========================== 
>
What kind of wooden weapons?  If you mean Bokken, Jo, Wakizashi, Tanto
etc then you could try 
S & P inc
10545-B San Pablo Avenue
El Cerrito
CA 94530
(415) 527-6032

They sell everything from Iai-to, Kendo Armor, Judo/Karate Gis,
Hakama, Weapons Bags, Tatami, all kinds of martial art's weapons.  All
their stuff is excellent quality.  They have a catalog and price list
available.  Julian
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Kendo Newbie Question
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:38:14 GMT

Hi, I'm planning on taking up Kendo after an intercontinental move this
month, and have some questions.

Like,

  What will I be expected to bring to the dojo?  Will a gi suffice or is
armour required?  If armour is required is it wisest to buy it in Sweden,
or might it be cheaper to buy it in Vancouver and mail it across?  Same Q
for other obvious equipment (such as the bamboo sword whose propper name
keeps falling out of my head).

Thanks,
-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca| Q: Why did the Jungle Fowl cross the road?          |
Behavioural Ecology   | A: To maximize it's lifetime reproductive success   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  | Q: Huh?                                             |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  | A: I guess it just needed to get to the other side. |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: MA GIF Files
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 19:50:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.115512.29004@odin.diku.dk> cthulhu@diku.dk (Stefan Krabbe) writes:
>ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar) writes:
>
>
>>To the guy who had the MA gif files :
>>Could you send them to rec.martial-arts as well as alt.binaries.pictures.misc,
>>as we have restricted access, and don't get that group.
>
>Yeppers.

Sorry to be a killjoy, but offhand, posting GIF's to rec.martial-arts
sounds like a dandy way to get rec.martial-arts the same treatment that
alt.binaries.* gets now -- that is to say, no one will want to carry it.

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
55428                |                |way: he would stroll out the window..."
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: poor technique
Date: 30 Dec 92 05:16:49 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>
>	A tournament _must_ be less than realistic, or it would be 
>actual combat and not a tournament at all.  There are different approaches
>to make this unreality happen.  In judo we allow only a subset of possible
>techniques and we pad the ground and practice falling so that we can do
>that safe subset of techniques at full speed without injuring each other.
>Where I'm confused about karate tournaments is that since there _is_ no
>safe subset of techniques - what's a painless way to strike someone? - how
>can you use karate techniques in this situation without "watering them down",
>that is, NOT executing them at full power and speed?  

     Pads and/or armor. Limited techniques and targets. Conditioning.
We wear hand and foot pads, headgear and mouthpieces; women wear chest
pads and men wear cups.  We forbid blows to the back, the legs, the
joints, the throat, and below black belt level, to the head. No one
engages in kumite until they reach green belt - about a year of training -
so they have the necessary control to not hurt others and the necessary
conditioning to be hit and not be injured.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
oh no godzilla
guns and planes cannot stop him
tokyo is ablaze
	-- Damon Koronakos and Brian Roberts: HI-TECH HAIKUS