From: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Bad news for POV and
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:53:00 GMT
Reply-To: bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler)
Organization: SataLink Info Systems - Huntingdon Valley, PA - 215-364-3324

JM>In article <15108.1088.uupcb@satalink.com> bert.tyler@satalink.com (Bert Tyler) writes:
>Compuserve accounts aren't that expensive, folks.  Hopefully, they're
>not as expensive as your reputation is.  The POV crew is developing
>an outstanding piece of software over there, and they would love
>to have an OS/2 member on their team.

JM>Then why did they turn down someone who can interact with them as easily
JM>as anyone else? Surely he's aware of the email gateway from CI$ to the
JM>Internet...

Because someone who refuses to join them on Compuserve *can't* interact
with them as easily as anyone else.  Drew explained to me that he had
explained this at length to the fellow who posted the original message,
but the fellow apparantly wasn't interested in listening.

Drew is fully aware of the CIS<->Internet email gateway, and uses it
all of the time.  The fact that an Internet person can send private
email to and from Drew (at Drew's expense in both directions, BTW -
the other fellow's main argument for not joining Compuserve was that
he was a student and *his* Internet access is "free") is great - but
that's not how the POV team works.  They use a public forum, much
like this one, to broadcast ideas, bug reports, and fixes to everyone
on the development team on a regular basis.  The point is that they
use *that* forum rather than, say, this one, and have been using it
for over a year - POV wasn't developed overnight, you know.  Someone
who refuses to join that forum puts an extra (and unnecessary) burden
and expense on Drew and the POV team - in this case, directly on Drew.

Think of it as someone who wants to join your volunteer organization,
but announces in advance that he won't be going to any meetings - and
expects that the group leader will of course write everything up and
send him the minutes via private mail (on the group leader's dime).
This is, of course, wll after the organization has been set up and
a lot of sweat and blood spent getting it going.  Then, when you tell
him he can't join the group on those terms, he announces publicly
that he's going to steal the conference table.

The point is that the POV team set up some very simple requirements
on distributing their code involving joining their development team,
and someone had decided that he didn't like those requirements - and
was going to ignore them and distribute their code anyway.

(BTW, the original poster sent me a private message later stating that
he would *not* be distributing an OS/2 binary in defiance of Drew's
terms - but that he had received email from 20 other people who declared
that they were going to do just that.  I keep telling Drew that this is
*not* a reflection on the quality of the folks who use OS/2, but 
items like this are making my arguments a little weak.  It doesn't
help any that, at least at the point I talked with him, no OS/2
developers had offered to join the POV team on the terms that everyone
*else* on the team joined in.)

JM>When you're running a volunteer organization, you don't run off
JM>volunteers and then complain that you can't get any.

But Drew wasn't complaining.  It was the *other* fellow who was
complaining that he didn't like POV the copyright terms and intended
to ignore them.  I'm confident that Drew will find OS/2 developers
who are willing to join his team on the terms that everyone *else* on
his team has agreed to.  Bear in mind that Drew's team has spent over
a year developing this code already.  They welcome newcomers, but
prima-donna newcomers who aren't interested in following the rules
everybody else follows aren't going to get a lot of deference.

Hw *will* be writing a response to all this that he wants me to post,
but he says he needs to calm down first.  Today would not be a good
day to attempt to convince Drew of the virtues of OS/2, I'm afraid.

                   Bert Tyler   (bert.tyler@satalink.com)
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #343sa . Your mileage may vary.  Your car may not run.