HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: partners
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 18:17:29 GMT


In a previous article, scgos@MVAX.CC.CONNCOLL.EDU (Sarah) says:

>Karla M. Alwan writes:
>
>
>
>>Could be....  Or it could be that you don't feel you deserve
>>to be listend to.  But you do!  It isn't your fault it happend...
>>It isn't your fault you need to talk about it.  It is just the
>>way it is.  You deserve to be listened to.  And anyone that
>>cares for you will understand that...  But if you are trying
>>to protect him, IMHO, in the end it won't be a good thing...
>>Eventually you will need him to be a part of all that.  Without
>>that how can he get really close to you, and how can he know
>>you really well, if you don't let him in on a part of your
>>life that has impacted you so much?...
>
>Well said.

thanks!

>
>>It takes a very special person to be a partner to a survivor.
>>But they are out there...  And we all deserve to find one (at
>>least).
>
>	I think I've found one, and I'm glad. But I don't know what to do 
>with him. (I have this little picture in my head of everyone reading this
>and thinking "She has a supportive partner who wants to help. So what's her
>problem???" and wishing I would go away.) My whole life is confused right

nah!   I have supportive friends, and a suportive SO too...
But it is very hard to take them for what they are...  So many people
I have trusted, have run over me with a truck and flattened me
like a strawberry...  This is very easy to understand...

>now, and I want to run away from the only people who care precisely because
>they do care and I'm scared. None of this makes any sense. Sigh.

If every time a guy in a red shirt walks past you, he slaps you...
Eventually you would tend to avoid guys in red shirts...
And then ten years down the raod, after you figured out to avoid the
red shirt, some other guy walks up to you and says "I won't
slap you, turst...".  What are you supposed to do?  It would
be against out naturall survival instincts to simply say "ok..."

Take care,

-Karla

>
>
>Sarah
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed)
Subject: Re: asar
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:22:52 EDT

In article <Bs4Go2.DAt@twwells.com> anon-1160@twwells.com writes:
>
>I just had a hunge binge and threw up most of it.  WHen I realized I didn't
>throw up nearly enough of it but couldn't throw up any more, I started
>feeling desperate again.  I cut up my arm again.  Oh shit I can't stop.
>I thought maybe if I wrote this it would stop me long enough to make the
>feelings go away.  For now.  Sorry I am new and not sure what I am doing,
>plus when i am in states like this i really don't know.  sorry.
>
I'm not a cutter, binge but don't throw up, but I know well the self-hatred
and disgust that go with them. Please don't be sorry - I think you were very
brave to write here, and I hope you will stick around. Please, if you
are not in therapy or a support group think strongly about finding one. It 
will be terribly scary in the beginning, but it will help. You need to be
able to talk about the pain, to find other ways to let out the anger and
self-hatred, find out what it is all about. I've still got a long way to
go, haven't conquered the binges yet, but I have been in therapy and can
say that it helps tremendously to have someone accept you as you are, 

tell you it is ok, you are ok, not bad or shameful. 

I don't know if this helps, but wanted to reach out to you. You can 
write to me if you want, I have an anon addr. but can't remember it,
will try to find it if you post back at me. Take care of yourself - you
deserve it!!!!! Here's a bit e-hug if you can accept it!!

changeling


--
 Judith Reed - sysmgr - Syracuse University High Energy Physics
 judith@suhep.phy.syr.edu
 jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Hello!
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:33:42 GMT

anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian) writes:

> I have  just  become  aware  of  this newsgroup forum and support
> group.  I am a male survivor of child sexual abuse who just began
> recovering memories of the abuse 6 weeks ago.  Fortunately I have
> a good counsellor and have been attending support group sessions with
> a half dozen other male survivors.    It has been very useful and
> extremely helpful in my case, at last,  to  have  a SAFE PLACE to
> talk.
> 
> That is all I will say for now  as  I am a little tentative about
> my  posting  as  yet  although I am going through  the  anonymous
> protocol.

welcome to the group....(ick, that sounds like a 12 step meeting...)
and please say/post ONLY what you feel comfortable with....always nice
to meet (well, it is kinda sad too) another survivor
Ted, and friends
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1160@twwells.com
Subject: asar
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:13:34 GMT


I have been reading about 1 month, since I got out of a psych hospital.
Maybe I'll be able to talk about stuff soon.  I do not know.  I feel
horrible that I am still shrouded in secrets and posting anonymously.
I need a safe place and hope maybe this can be one.  Thanks.



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:00:21 GMT

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:

: >Perhaps an approach that might work is the one taken by MADD.
: 
: what exactly is that aproach... I am not all that familiar with
: it.

MADD organized on a national, then a local, level.  They recruited
local organizers to form groups locally.  Idea took off like wildfire.
They've got stuff like contracts between teens and parents, etc.

Whaddya think?
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!

801/      "This is the final task I will ever give you, and  it  goes
269-      on  forever.   Act  happy,  feel happy, be happy, without a
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: all the time
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:14:58 GMT

I don't  mean  to  horn in, Lisa, on your exchange with Karla re:
Shari, but I  thought  you maybe had put your finger on one brief
solution in your posting.    Just declaring a TIME OUT with Shari
on  certain  subjects for short  period.    In  fact  this  is  a
technique recommended in __ALLIES IN HEALING__  when  things  get
rough for two people at the same time.

Please ignore this if it is not  the  sort  of  thing you want to
hear right now.  I only noted it  because  I  thought  I detected
your  identifying  this technique in your posting.  If  not  just
chalk it up to MY inexperience in listening.

Know  that  greetings  come  with support for YOUR process as  it
meets your needs!

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu (edward tyrrill)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: I got hired
Date: 27 Jul 92 01:27:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

Hi All!

I just got back from D.C.  I was indeed hired so I'm gonna be moving a
week from today.  I had a great time when I was there too.  I met Sherri
(sfjr@wam.umd.edu) while I was out there.  We toured a couple museums
together.  I saw most everything there is to see out there while I was
there.  And the guys at work really went out of there way to make the
time spent there enjoyable.  It was really great.  It was great to feel
so accepted and liked by everyone.  I kept hearing from the guys there
how much the others liked me and everything.  And it's a small company,
and they dress casually, and hang out together.  Hopefully the Laguna
Hills office will be as friendly.

My presence here will be sporadic at best for an undetermined length of
time.  By the time I come back I probably won't recognize everyone.  In
a week I'll be pretty much gone though.  Everyone out there take care of
yourselves.  Ehugs if you want them.


-- 
                            ___
Ed Tyrrill                 / | \     The "War on Drugs" is a war on *people*
cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu    \/_\/          Don't apply YOUR morals to ME
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: Thanks Karla
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 18:45:01 GMT


In a previous article, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) says:

>: 
>: Many surivivors see very clearly how tough if it is to be their
>: partner, when partner after partner gives up.  Also, many people
>: exclusively date survivors of similar (or complementary) abuse,
>: whether they know it or not.  Who is being tough on who, here?
>
>Not really.  People in general tend to blame others for their own problems.
>If partner after partner gives up, why, it must be *their* problem!  That's
>human nature.  It's also human nature to not be able to see past one's own
>pain.


If I try my best... and partner after partner gives up.  
Then it is *their* problem.  I obviously haven't found the right
person yet.  Anyone that cares for me deeply, wouldn't
give up on me.  I didn't do this to myself.  It isn't
fair that I have to struggle to get through just one day.
And someone that cares for me would understand that I am trying
my best.

I wouldn't wish haveing to be a partner of a survivor (or
a survivor) on my worst enemy.  It is a horribly difficult
thing, to be on either side of it.  But the truth is it
happens...  And us survivors should not be doomed to
spend life a lone just because some asshole fucked us up!
wThere are lots of wonderful things about us...  None
of them make it worth it, they just make it lots better...
being a partner of a survivor is for someone with patience,
and gentleness...  It is not for the average joe blow...
just as surviving is not for the average joe blow.  We
are all special.  we all deserve to be loved.  It isn't
our fault that we require a special person to love us.  That's
just the way it is... as hard as it is.  And if someone
can't deal with that, it is *their* problem.  Becuase
there are people out there that care enough, and are patient 
enough to stick with it.  I have bumped into a coule,
myself.

*hugs* to all that want them,...

-Karla

>
>Many people date survivors exclusively because they have what is called in
>counseling circles "the superman/messiah complex" - they think that they
>can solve all of a survivors problems for them.  When the relationship
>falls apart, they move onto another, trying the same thing.
>
>As to who's doing the more accurate generalizations, who's dealt with more
>survivors, you or me?

why make these sorts of generalizations at all?

>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
>"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
>happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
>and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Thanks Karla
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:17:29 GMT


Thanks Karla for your response posting to my question about confiding 
and talking about abuse experiences with others.  You wrote: 
	<hmmmm...  seems to me that if he cares for you a lot, he would
	<be interested in hearing all the gory details.  I mean not that
	<it is pleasant, but...  Also, I mean if he is your lover, it
	<would be important for him to know how to go about things.  Maybe
	<if you gave him a copy of _Allies in Healing_ or let him scan
	<through _Courage to HEAL_ (have you heard of these books?) it
	<would lossen him up a little, and then you could talk with him
	<about it.

Yes, he is my lover and I have opened up communication a little with 
him, i.e. he says he is alright if I need to talk about anything (he 
says he will be comfortable with anything I feel I need to tell him).  
In fact I have taken him at his word and risked talking about some 
things and have even allowed myself to cry in front of him about a 
couple of issues.  These times have been O.K.   Maybe it is just part 
of the stage I am at -- not wanting to burden him with knowledge or 
problems which in fact I am handling alright by myself.  I am aware, 
too, that there is probably a lurking element of "having to be 
perfect" in order to "deserve love" which makes me reticent.

I have found his lack of curiosity a little strange (see also my 
experience below) but have pursued the question
and satisfied myself that it is not lack of caring.  

Could it be that I am somehow trying to protect HIM from my abuse?

I actually read _ALLIES IN HEALING_ myself recently to get a 
perspective on how someone else (a lover, a partner) might be viewing 
me, a survivor.  I found it very helpful:  gentle but to the point.

Perhaps the reason I feel my lover may have some problems with 
detailed discussion is that two years ago I got a copy of the Mike Lew 
book and have had it on my bedside table the whole time.  Although MSO 
is normally VERY curious about what I am reading, etc., he has NEVER 
mentioned this book to me.  I should probably not sound too censorious 
about this, however, as I must admit, although I was inexorably drawn 
to this book, I felt like a fraud buying it and when I first read it I 
made absolutely NO CONNECTION with myself and I only skimmed and 
virtually dismissed it although I kept it nearby.  
It was only two weeks ago when I picked it 
up again that I understood what it really meant and could see myself 
reflected on many of the pages -- this is a month or so after first coming 
to realize that I had been abused.  How efficient our defences of 
denial!!! 

Many thanks for the encouragement, Karla.

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Multi-generational Abuse
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:18:00 GMT

In article <35978@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Trevor Cederquist) writes:
>
>Yeah, that's the way I felt about getting my tubes tied.  The relief
>was incredible...
>-- 
ditto.  I remember Jay just had a baby, so I know there are survivors here
who are having kids currently.  I also know of research which looks at
women who are out of the gene pool, but I've never heard of research
on survivors who are out of the gene pool.  The question comes to me:
how common is this? but it's just an idle curiousity.  I mention it just
because it might give a topic to someone in psych or sociology.

Matt



Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: Talking about problems
Reply-To: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov
Organization: Unisys/EPA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:25:44 GMT

Sometimes when I'm uncomfortable with what someone else is telling me about, 
I tell them "I'm feeling uncomfortable with what you're telling me -- I'm not sure
that I'm in a place where I'm ready to hear about that from you."

In this situation it sounds like you may be dealing with someone with very loose
boundaries -- they may not even be aware that they are sharing inappropriately
intimate information to a brand new acquaintance.

Recognizing my own boundary issues and tuning in to when other people are not
working their own boundaries very well and getting in my space is a challenge.
I'm learning more and more about how to do it -- it's kind of like learning to 
walk and riding a bicycle -- you can learn all about it by watching others do it,
hear about it, read about it, and then you finally just practice, practice, practice --
and there will probably be some bumps and scrapes in the process -- there's
no "clean" way to learn it without making my own mistakes.

I hate it... and I love it  ;-)
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: thanks, Kristian
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:30:01 GMT
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)

Thanks, Kristian; I think your suggestion of "TIME OUT" is a good one.  I'll
look at up in Allies in healing.  

Thanks again, Lisa

P.S.  Thanks to all those who've written me on this subject.  Appreicate the
suggestions ad support.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: 'Except at Night'
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 21:07:28 GMT


   I came across this by accident but it hit me like a ton of
   bricks:
	Except at Night / We Dream      by Henri Bensussen

  	We are absent, leaving
	our bodies.
	We hover above
	on the watch.

	We don't remember that we've lived
	those unspeakable things
	done to us when we were eight
	or five or two
	by friends of the family,
	uncles, fathers, older boys.

	We think we are nothing.
	We wish we were nothing.
	
	Memory draws a blank
	
	except at night / we dream

	and when a man touches us now
	we scream.
	
	We don't know why.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:28:04 GMT

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:

: Pretty neat.  Seems backwards to me though.  My first intution 
: would be to start at a local level and work up.  Seems
: like it would be harder to make a national organization fly...

Well, you could always start like you said: at a local level.  Perhaps
contacting the therapists in your area and pitching the idea to them might be
a way to start.  Organizing and holding seminars (open to the public, of
course) with chosen therapists would be to the benefit of both you and them --
they get the free publicity, you get the draw of a "name".  Make sense?
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!

801/      "This is the final task I will ever give you, and  it  goes
269-      on  forever.   Act  happy,  feel happy, be happy, without a
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: odd question
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:08:07 GMT

In article <P21DoB2w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney) writes:
>here's one for my fellow "people people" (as my young alter calls MPD)

....and lots of my people just love this way of referring to MPD...some of
us don't like initial labels, we feel like we have to get a degree or take
some sort of test...
>
>recently had a 'flame' on another system, on another echo far away....

Hmm, well, a lot depends on which sort of system.  Is it another recovery
group?
>
>someone got pissed at me, and has accused not ME specifically but someone in my
>town (not hard to decipher as there are only a few from my town on this
>echo/area) of being/having MPD.....whew. damn. crap. phooey.
>
>not sure how to handle it...deny it? nope, its true....I wish there was not this
>stigma attached to this disorder (wish folks would focus on the ABUSE! and ways
>to stopping it!).....I think of it as a side effect of something HORRIBLE, in-
>stead the media has warped it to make folks thing we are something to be feared
>(the ABUSERS need to be feared! (and dealt with)

I agree so strongly with these thoughts.  Perhaps you could state it something
like you just did, not feeling the need to answer whether the person was
MPD, but say that you're angry that people are 'accusing' people of being MPD,
like you would be to hear someone 'accused' of not being heterosexual.

>
>should I just let this lie? am I being paranoid? this person seems the type of
>scum to keep at it (e-mail folks I am talking to etc...) oh, yes, I HAVE sent a
>msg to the moderator too.....
>
>or am I over reacting/being paranoid?
>

Over-reacting in what sense?  I'm not sure I really understand enough of what
are really worried about.  What do you think this person is trying to accomplish
by attaching the MPD label to this person?

>thanks
>Ted

Sherri
From: kelly@TERRET.NMSU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: [GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu: Lost: Bilingual pediatrician...]
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:21:36 GMT

A email friend of mine asked me to to distribute this as widely as
possible.  He is looking for a former doctor who helped set him on the
path to recovery some years back.

If you know Dr. Zeltzer, please let me know.  I have Gary's US Mail
address and will release it to Dr. Zeltzer if she can be found.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Kelly Lynn Martin

(message follows)

Return-Path: <GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:05:31 EDT
From: "Gary O. Van De Walle" <GARYV@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Subject:      Lost: Bilingual pediatrician...
To: Kelly <kelly@acca.nmsu.edu>

To All:

   Please help me locate Lonnie K. Zeltzer, a former doctor of mine
who was instrumental in helping me rebuild a life.  She was employed @
the Univ. of TX Health Science ctr @ San Antonio in the Department of
Pediatrics in the capacity of Director, Division of Adolescent Medicine in
the late '80s.  At last report, she was in California, possibly at the UCLA
Medical Center *not sure*.  If you find her, kindly email kelly@acca.nmsu.edu
with contact arrangements.  Kelly has permission to give my USPS addr. to her.

                                  Thanks,

                                    Gary V.

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: lights off
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:51:31 GMT

Have you tried regressive hypnosis?  Sometimes that helps people get
to the bottom of their fears and feelings, and can bring them out in the
open so that they can be dealt with.

Good luck!  Ehugs if you want them. :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
"In wildness is the preservation of the world."  - Henry David Thoreau
** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)   801/269-8125
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery