From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:47:04 GMT

shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes: >

>Maddi's initial posting suggested that the reason she adopted atheism
>was that she found her family's practice of Judaism unsatisfactory.

Actually, I said that was what started my questioning.

>If Maddi had written that she is an atheist because she finds it
>appealing, comforting, or intellectually parsimonious, I would have
>no objection.

I felt that went without saying.  Again, the original post was
a description of how I got there.

>But when a person writes that they are atheists because they found
>Judaism unappealing -- and come to that conclusion after intensive
>study of Jewish practice and tradition -- I am bothered; I would
>like to assume that a person who truly understands Judaism would
>not find atheism appealing.

Perhaps your assumptions are based on emotion rather than fact.
Certainly I am not the only one to have turned away.

>Maddi's statement was, however, less compelling.  She did not (so
>far as I can tell) study Judaism intensely.  Instead, she adopted
>atheism based primarily on very limited exposure to serious Judaism.
>Using that as a rationale for atheism does a disservice to atheism
>as well as to Judaism. 

Since you are not familiar with how much studying I did, I  do
believe your statement is misinformed.  In my first post I mentioned
I did a lot of study on my own.  In another post I made today, I
also mentioned the discussions I had with a Chabod rabbi when I was
24.  While my family's practice of Judaism might be described as
Pick-and-Choose Judaism Lite, this does not mean I did not do
quite a bit of reading, studying, and, yes, soul-searching.

>Imagine what convinced atheists would say if I entered alt.atheism
>with some weak arguments against it based on what had happened to
>me when I was 6 or 10 or 15 years old; they would -- with justification --
>tell me to go back and study atheism first.  (Read the alt.atheism
>FAQ; that is exactly what they assert.)

This is a false dichotomy.  It takes about 30 minutes to read all
five a.a. FAQ files.  I have spent years studying Judaism, and yet
you say it is not enough.  This is an unfair comparison.  How much
study is "enough" for you to believe that I have enough information
to choose fairly?

Incidently, what "weak arguments" did you have in mind for a
posting to a.a.?  I think you are mistakenly implying that atheism
is a religion.  It is not.

>Thus, Maddi, if you find atheism appealing, I won't argue with you.
>But attributing your atheism to Judaism's weaknesses is unfair to
>Judaism (given your limited exposure to serious Jewish practice)
>and demeans atheism (since it implies you adopted it out of ignorance
>about Judaism).

This is a misprepresentation.  I did not attribute my atheism to
Judaism's weakness per se.  I attribute it to a Do As I Say Not
As I Do upbringing, and disgust with Religion in General, NOT
Judaism specifically.  Furthermore, your continuous reassertion that
I am ignorant about Judaism is false no many how many times you
repeat it.  (Argumentum ad Nauseum)  Again, my biggest objection
to Organized Religion, including Judaism, was sexism.  My second
biggest objection is discouragement of independent thinking.
Judaism has a much better record than Christianity in this area.
My third objection was the outdatedness of many laws and rituals,
and again, this applies to most of the religions I looked into.
In this case, Judaism has it worse, because of the large number
of specific laws that no longer apply or were written for a 
society that no longer exists (e.g. Purity Laws, to ensure
lots of pregnancies).

>(Incidentally, part of the problem may be that the set of people
>who truly understand both atheism and Judaism is VERY VERY small;
>furthermore, anyone who claims to know both and adopt one will be
>rejected by the other.  

I believe this number is far greater than you would like to
think.  Just because they aren't posting in s.c.j. does not mean
they aren't out there.  I do invite you to lurk on a.a. for a
while; there are quite a number of lapsed Jews there.

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                madhaus@netcom.com
Humorist, Satirist, Tech Writer.  Take your pick.

Centigram Communications Corp, San Jose California  408/428-3553