From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Anti-Arab Racism in Israel?
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:26:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.120056.29727@discus.technion.ac.il>,
davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
|>In article <22196@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
|>>[Comments in square brackets are mine - Yigal]
|>>
|>>From "The OTHER Front", July 29, 1992.  Translation of Ha'aretz
|>article.

|>This is indeed unfortunate and has many reasons
|>some of them security-connected which have sound basis (whatever Yigal
|>and his fellow anti Zionists will say) and many from prejudice and
|>stereotypes
|>that roam the Jewish public as it roams Whites in the USA and many
|>other
|>people - this should be eliminated and ALL governments declared that
|>Equality
|>is very important. Of course many of these declerations were
|>lip-service
|>as is the current one by Rabin (IMHO).
|>
|>This is not racism per se. This is nationalism (as the Arabs are from
|>the same race, and no one condemns Arab for their racial features).

  Since the term "Racism" was originaly coined to describe the theory of
  Hitler and his Ilk which claimed such a difference existed between the
  Jewish and Aryan "races" the application of the term is dependent on the
  mindset of the racist, not on whether the groups concerned are indeed
  from separate races or not.

  The test of language is whether the concepts it embodies are usefull or
  not. There is no practical difference between those that hate black
  people simply because they are black or those that hate Jews simply
  because they are Jews or arabs simply because they are arabs.

Can you indicate where did I express hatred for Arabs because they are
Arabs? I think that noting that most Arab coountries are in a constant
state of war with Israel gives quite good reasons to the Israeli public
to be cautious about sharing vital secrets. I guess that the number of
Jews in the defnese establishment of any Arab country including Egypt
is and JUSTAIFIABLY zero.
 
|>I never said that Arabs enjoy full equality in Israel - they have formal
|>equality - much the same as the Blacks have in America. There are many
|>laws that discrimiante Jews affirmatively, such as the Law of Return.
|>The raison d'etre of this is: Jews have been denied a State for 2000
|>years and must be compensated.

  "Affirmative action" is only justified in case where a group of people
  are willing to make ammends for those they oppressed. In the case of the
  desendants of US slaves or those formerly exploited in British colonies
  this case is clear. When the majority population group in control of the
  entire system of government decide that they need "affirmative action"
  in order to rectify wrongs done to their forebears the rationalisation
  is transparent.


It seems that you are resorting to the same semantic game that you
reprimanded me of doing. True, your definition doesn't apply technically.
The Jewish people was deprived of homeland and most of its human rights
in the last 2000 years (I'm sure you'll agree with it). Some jews decided
that waiting for "favours" (affirmative action) on the part of other
people was useless and decided to try to correct their dismal situation
by themselves. They are enacting their compensation by themselves. 

If the Blacks were to have a souverign state and let blacks have "compensation"
by themselves - this will be indeed the same as to what Israel is doing.
In this sense this is affirmative action, as you yourself said terms are
used when they are useful not only technical. 

|>Well, I think the dangers are not fictitious as this journalist imply,
|>I think that if Arabs should be trusted to these commities they should
|>also serve in the army. Most of them won't hear of the latter not even
|>in the mildest form (service in Arab municipal and hospitals) so their
|>complaints seem a little hypoctical.

  Since the necessity for conscription is caused by the maximalist and
  expansionist aims of Shamir et al there is legitimate reason to object
  to participating.

Whatever your political view says, as an Israeli citizen who has voting
right you cannot ignore majority decision and get away with it. They
get major exemption from the most daunting contribution to the state.
My opinion is that those who avoid army service: Arab, Religious Jew,
Sly Secular Jew, Pacifist, PLO-supporter (Jewish/Arab) should get less
rights. it is simple: You don't do all your duty - you don't get certain
priveleges (like enlarged Social Security pensions)

  The racism behind David's position is now clear, he beleives that "the
  arabs" consitute a group such that lack of trustworthyness on the part
  of one member is enough to damn them all. Now the reason for the
  carefull semantic definition of racism becomes plain, he wants to
  indulge in racist attitudes without admiting that he is racist.

Where did you see the "One memebr damn all" approach? Common Sense and
innumerable incidents where large groups of Arabs acted in ways that
deemed them unworthy of trust. You cannot ignore the fact that they are
having natural; affiliation to their brothers over the border. They say
so themselves. Their loyalty to Israel is probelmatic to anyone who 
opens his eyes to the situation.
  
You suggest that Israel should take the risk that crucial information 
will leak to wrong ears. How can one know who is "loyal" and who is
not? Was the US or UK governments accept Communist legislators in their
defense pazrliamentary commities? You must understand that Arabs are
the stated enemy of the Country. Most of Israeli Racism (including
Kahane) is result of the perennial conflict between the nations.

The Americans and Brittish arrested Japanese and Germans citizens in 
camps. This was wartime and niceties were ruled aside.

  At the end of the day you can chose any name you like for the idea that
  some people should be allowed more rights than others because they
  belong to a different ethnic group. I'll still call it racism and I'll
  still be against it.

You seem to ignore that Arabs state vowed to exterminate Israel, this
is the main reason for the attitudes toward the Arabs. 
The hatred towards Arabs are only for them being the viciuos enemy they
are, not their being Arabs per se. The Americans hated Russians and
Communists (and Japanese before) too for that matter. 

  Phill Hallam-Baker

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
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