HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 02:25:00 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
:    Hardly.  Just look at the Mac groups for a model of how this would work.  

I'm so incredibly unsurprised.  Leave it to the company who believes
that an OS should hold the user's hand to do it on UseNet.  :)

: For instance, a few weeks ago I questioned Commodore's commitment to 
: AmigaVision, saying that I felt that it had been abandoned.  Nobody came back
: with any solid information, just some general bullshit that Commodore was
: comitted to AmigaVision but with no details.  Compare this to just a week ago
: when somebody on comp.sys.mac.hypercard questioned Apple/Claris' commitment t
: HyperCard.  A real Apple rep posted a message in return showing Claris' plans
: for HyperCard for the next three years, in detail.  That kind of support is
: all people want here, and there is nothing Orwellian about it.

You want to be told the plans for anything that is done for the next
several years?  That doesn't go against Apple's credo:  They always
announce things a good time before shipping.  However, C= has always
been different, they only announce when it's ready to ship.  Why would
they break their own stride like that?

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:	  "Flesh-pressing:  It's not just for politics anymore."         :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A (sad) story about stocks, Norwegian banks and C=
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:18:02 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <1992Aug14.231020.1664@news.uit.no> borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Boerge Noest) writes:
>
> and he looked them up, told me that they were $9 3/8; approximately
>600,- NOK. Then he proceeded to ask if I really wanted to do this. Why, I
>asked, how much expenses will there be? 'If you want the stocks in your
                                          ^^                        ^^^^
>hands, with your name and everything, you should expect to pay
>approximately 1000,- NOK.'

That's the point. See below.

>AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, that's one thousand
>NOK(~$160).
>
>The C= part of this is that it was C= stocks :-)

Well, banks are out to get *your* money. Always. So, they want to play
this stock business a little differently: In Germany (and I guess in
most other european countries, too), they hold the stock themselves
in a "depot" *for* you, under their name. There they charge you much
lesser expenses. But then you lose your status as the real stock owner
and won't get invitated to stock holder's meetings, etc. But I live
since years with this limited access...

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:27:17 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <root.0295@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
 >
 >This would seem to be politically unsound on the part of Commodore.  When
 >China takes over Hong Kong in 1997, Commodore could easily lose that plant.
 >At this time, companies who are already in Hong Kong are working on
 >contingency plans for pulling out.

Hmm, interesting point. But it can easily be reversed: Commodore is today
already very strong in the eastern european markets. How about invading
the *BIG* chinese market from inside??? (Just a speculation :-)

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 07:23:19 GMT

rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey) writes:
> When Mall of America opened up this week I went spelunking around,
> the place IS big [...]   In Sears, CD-I had a huge crowd around it
> with THOUSANDS of people per hour passing by. Nobody in the crowd
> knew what I was talking about when I said, "Looks like a CDTV",
> when I tried to explain the universal response was along the lines
> of "C=, isn't that the cheesy little computer company?  [...]

My question is: why would you even _want_ to mention CDTV?   CD-I has
the better technology, much more backing and longterm planning, and
is certainly a helluva lot more likely to evolve in a timely manner.

> Off hand I'd say CDTV is in serious trouble to say the least, especially
> if major Sears outlet's are showing them off in the computer section.

As long as Amigans continue to buy CDTVs, it'll do okay.  Personally tho,
I suspect that most buy CDTVs because they're itching for some (any?!)
kind of new "Amiga" and/or official Commodore CD-ROM support.

> Off hand I'd say more people saw that 1 CD-I unit this past week than
> all of the US has seen the CDTV in the pasy year or so. NOT good C=.

I've heard that Commodore has CDTV demonstrators at that Mall, too.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: d91br@efd.lth.se (Bjoern Rux)
Subject: Re: Broken A2000 powersupply
Organization: Intel Inside (Vacuum)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:47:31 GMT

Hi there Will !

If you can open your powersupply easily, do it, and find the fuse.
Buy an identical and replace the old one with it. Power on (re-assemble everything first of course) and hopefully, it will work.

NOTE: I`ve seen what you`ve described appear several times both on my amiga *500*, and on machines owned by some friends of mine (also amiga *500*).
Replacing the fuse always helped. It takes maybe 10 minutes. A new fuse is about 25 cents.
The powersupply(ies) for the 500 and the ones for the 2000 are not the same. The symptoms of a blown fuse should be, however. I hope it`s easy to locate your fuse, and to open the box, but maybe some `2000 techie` could answer this. 

  Good luck ! 
 

                       Only Amiga Makes It Possible !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 <<<<<       Bjoern Rux    d91br@efd.lth.se    IRC,MUDS: Bardus          >>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: People, CALM DOWN!
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:31:45 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Aug10.071311.3987@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Aug09.085653.2830@edsi.plexus.COM> jason@edsi.plexus.COM (Jason White) writes:
>>Can't Commodore make you guys happy? You complain about not having AA, and when we are close to having it, you all comaplin still. Seemingly MORE. I for one am thouroughly happy with the new specs on the AA set, 

>You shouldn't be.  It would have been quite possible for C= to double the
>clockspeed of the chipset, and gain more than 4x speedup.  

I didn't see the posting on the supposed "AA" chipset.  But let's examine this
claim in light of ECS and see just how possible this would be.

An ECS chip bus cycle takes 280ns.  That's easy to get with common DRAM, which 
is 80ns or faster these days.  100ns DRAM cycles in 200ns, 80ns DRAM cycles in
around 180ns.  In fact, within the 280ns cycle, you would have enough time using
80ns DRAM to run one random access and one page or static column mode access
(roughly another 60ns, for a total of 250ns).  That would let linear accesses,
such as video fetches, get a doubling of bus speed without costing any more.

Now let's consider a double-speed ECS chip. It would run a 140ns cycle.  You 
cycle 60ns DRAM in 140ns no problem, though they're a considerable premium over
80ns parts today.  There's not enough time to run a page/static column cycle 
within that 140ns access window, so this approach would yield the same 2x
speedup, but it would cost more.

So, without a major overhaul of the Amiga bus access design, a double-speed 
memory cycle isn't going to help any.  It's certainly possible that an 
appropriately chosen memory cycle would be able to take real advantage of such
faster DRAM.  The problem is, without drastic changes to the Amiga chip
architecture, this isn't possible.  It all hinges on the Amiga's video 
synchronization -- to run a different bus cycle time, the chips would have to
decouple from the video cycle time or loose all hope of compatibility.  That
is a _major_ change, and in the end, it won't necessarily buy you anything over
other speedup ideas.

-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:50:21 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <1992Aug12.171839.3364@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
> 
> Sigh, once again when one poster's experience doesn't match the experience of
> another poster, the tendancy seems to be questioning the posters motive,
> veracity or anything else other than trying to figure out why the experiences
> are so different.  Why do we do this?

Because this is amiga.advocacy.  There is a rather large subset of people
who post to this newsgroup who will exaggerate the capabilities of their
platform of choice and/or will exaggerate the weaknesses of competing
platforms.  When I read a posting that directly contradicts my experience,
in a rather large way, I tend to assume that the poster belongs to this
large subset and I react accordingly.  These rabid disciples are not
unique to any specific platform but are present in all of them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21895 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12861
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:38:19 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

bn@mndcrme.uoknor.edu (Bo Najdrovsky) writes:

> > :   CPU:  Motorola 68030 running at 16 Mhz
> > :   32-bit Bus
> 
> I just find it a bit ironic, that while Atari is finally coming out with
> a 16 MHz  68030 machine, Commodore is already droping the 16 MHz product in
> favor of the 25 MHz machines.

Atari is not "finally coming out" with 16MHz 68030.  The Atari TT, a 32MHz
68030, has been around for two years.  This new machine is for a different
price range and user base.
 
> I must say that I concur with Gregory on his assesment of the Falcon. I
> don't think that the A4000 has anything to worry about.

Do you think the Falcon is supposed to compete with the A4000?  Couldn't you
buy 2-3 Falcons for the price of a 4000?

> Also, how does a company expect to seriously compete in the PROFESSIONAL
> market when their top of the line computer has an OPTIONAL hard drive???

How many professional USERS do you think want to be stuck with a
pre-packaged hard drive?  The Falcon is designed for (ex.) DTP and pro music
applications.  If you're doing DTP on it, you might want an 80 Meg drive. 
If you're doing digital audio recording/editing, you might want 660 Megs
and/or an external SCSI 88Meg removeable.

Are you actually criticizing Atari for not making the decision for you?

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Thomas A. Darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * record production * dance re-mixing
darling@cellar.org \\\ music for film * The Cellar BBS:215/654-9184 * FACT
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Words in mouth/foot in mouth?(was CDTV is dead).
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:40:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.002043.10931@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>
> I think it would be better if
>Commodore simply abandoned AmigaVision altogether than develop mediocre 
>updates for it.

Could you PLEASE make up your mind?

First, you make a fuss about C= not developing AV, then, when it becomes
apparent that they are in fact working on a new version, you complain that
they're wasting their time.  You can't have it both ways.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 20 Aug 1992 14:44:46 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <1992Aug20.143959.2210@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Look up the word "feature".  It means "characteristic".  It doesn't imply
>anything about desirability.  For example, an crooked nose is a facial feature
>that's not necessarily desirable.

Maybe you stopped reading the definition too early, or your dictionary has
fewer items listed under the definition.  In my copy of the Random House
College Dictionary I read:

     ... 4.  a prominent or conspicuous part or characteristic.
     5.  something offered as a special attraction.  ...

Clearly, you are aware of definition 4.  Would you, however, argue that
definition 5 here does not imply anything about desirability?

Furthermore, there is a guide to usage for some synonyms:

     FEATURE suggests an outstanding or marked property which attracts
     attention.  CHARACTERISTIC means a distinguishing mark or quality
     (or one of such) always associated in one's mind with a particular
     person or thing.

BTW, it also lists peculiarity as a synonym.

Thus, running Windows and MS-DOS programs could be considered a peculiarity
of OS/2.

-- 
Richard

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson)
Subject: Re: Pournelle (and Byte) strikes again!
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:18:30 GMT

amuser@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Bill Sharp-Smith AUG) writes:
- akerman@qucis.queensu.ca (Richard Akerman) writes:
- 
- >Is there an e-mail address where we can reach Pournelle?
- 
- Recently Byte published an Internet address for the letters page :
- 
- letters@bytepb.byte.com
- 
- Gary McGhee
- 

Just don't go and brailessly flame him for a reasonable article with
only small inaccuracies and a few things let out.

Commodore might have let him in on some secrets like the third-party
CD-ROM software, CDTV, '40 A3000T they advertized in the same issue,
professional Amiga users...

Send letters that are polite and filled with facts, and you may get
them into Byte. Send flame letters, and they will not care about the
polite letters either, and would think twicw before writing anything
new Amiga-related.

Seems like Jerry isn't under NDA, since he writes about a new WB that
reads DOS-files... :-)

-- 
=============================================================================
 Tommy Petersson              tope@enea.se              Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: 500 Pound Atari Falcon?  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:27:29 GMT

People said these are true specs of Falcon! IF 500 Pound price == $500-$700
in America, Sydnes MUST know new information to make new Amigas!!


From: jvt@its.bt.co.uk (John Trickey)
Keywords: falcon,68030
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:06:47 GMT
Organization: BT Group Computing Unix Support, Birmingham, UK

first models expected in UK September
to be shown at London trade show - September 6.
68030 @ 16 MHz
DSP56001
	8 channel 16 bit digital DMA, sampling up to 50KHz
	4 channel stereo with recording and playback
262,144 colour palette
Max res 640x480 16 bit mode (65,536 colours on screen)
SVGA modes up to 256 colours on screen
Overscan mode (no black border)
15bit overlay mode for video titling etc.
MultiTOS
1.44 MB Floppy
IDE port for internal 2.5in 44MB hard drive
RAM: 1,4 or 14 MB
Optional 68882 
Expansion slot for 386PC emulators or JPEG and MPEG data compressors
Ports
	SCSI II with DMA
	stereo microphone
	audio out
	monitor
	midi
	hi speed LAN (no they don't say what)
	Joystick & analog joystick
	printer port ``more industry standard''
working name was Sparrow
50 machines worldwide many at top software houses in UK (I presume
	others are in D :-) )
Atari Germany ``at least one model above and below Falcon030 including
	68040''

	price == 499 UK pounds
	new case design next April

Sounds good if its accurate but some of the statements get me a little worried.

John
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:34:54 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <64142@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:

I wrote this:

> >If you doubled everyone's taxes
>
> You can't pay off the federal budget deficit (bad choice of words, I
> admit) with higher taxes.
>
> Higher taxes != Higher Revenue
>

Lower Taxes == higher revenues.

Revenues = tax rate * GNP

Higher taxes stagnates GNP growth - we've seen it in action for 2 years now.
Growing GNP comes from shrinking tax rate and revenues still climb.

> And if you have no idea of why that is true, then I suggest you
> just do a little reading of history of the past 20 years.
>
> Also, one last bit of thinking: You can't tax yourself out of a
> deficit of this magnitude.

The line of reasoning I was following here was to show how ridiculous
the tax increase mentality is.  I'll say it again:  Doubling EVERYONE's
taxes (not just the rich, everyone) will not even allow us to pay off
our debt (debt != defecit) over 20 years.  The ANSWER is cut taxes and
cut spending.  Cut spending by 1/3 to $1Tril (1/5th GNP) saves more
money than doubling everyone's taxes.  Heh.  Cut spending by 1/3 and
we don't need the IRS at all anymore!

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy)
Subject: Re: CBM, This is not STUPID this is a PROPOSITION
Date: 14 Aug 92 04:11:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <9f5m#3d@lynx.unm.edu> kholland@hydra.unm.edu (Kiernan Holland) writes:
>
>MSword is a nice program, but I would hardly ask any big software house to waste
>their time in porting another MickeySoft program to the Amiga. 

Word absolutely blows away any Amiga word processor I have ever used.
The thing that makes Word a dog is Windows. Do a fully Amiga-tized
port of the product and you would have a fantastic word processor.

>Have you seen Final Copy?? I'm looking into it. 

Yes I have. I own a copy. While output is nice it is totally featureless.
The fonts look like crap on the screen, and yes I have the new
"improved" version. Using proprietary(sp?) fonts is a shame.
Output on my lame-o 9pin printer is truly amazing!

>I think it would be cheaper to emulate MSWORD with all those 
>fancy capabilities using just a mid-bare-bones word processor with 
>full-Arexx compatibilty and several Arexx programs that professional users

This would be nice. But I would rather have real running code doing
the work rather than a bunch of cobbled together ARexx macros.

You said you would use the mac version instead of the windows version becuase
you think the mac version is better? They are exactly the same, down to the
source code minus P-Code front end. Only the environment is differnet.
The "windows version" will get better as we improve window's performance.

Oh, and by the way... it's MICROSOFT.
-- 
/* IanK@Microsoft.com		*/
/* I want my 32bit chip set	*/

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:34:51 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>
>: Thanks for the flame, *Doctor*.
>
>Suddenly, people with college educations and PHD's aren't allowed to
>flame, right?
>

Nah, I just thought that people with college educations and PhD's had
the capacity to understand that discussion groups are for discussions, not
flame wars.

>
>It did appear that you were considering "DOS and Windows
>compatibility" to be a feature over AmigaOS.
>

Excuse me?  What does "a feature over AmigaOS" mean?  Yes, it's obviously
a feature that AmigaOS doesn't have.  Whether or not it's an advantage,
well, that depends on your needs, doesn't it?  You guys are accusing me
of saying this:

	"OS/2 is better than AmigaOS because it has support for DOS and
	 Windows binaries."

when what I really said was this:

	"OS/2 requires more RAM and disk space than AmigaOS because it has
	 support for DOS and Windows binaries."

See the difference yet?

>
>Greg
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+