HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose vs Elk
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:56:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> > > What is the difference between a moose & an elk?
> >
> > ... a moose is really an elk.  The elk we have in the the US is
> > really a "wapiti" and in Europe, the elk is really a moose.
> 
> And of course American "Antelope" aren't really antelope either.

And let's not even mention American beer.                :-P
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Subject: Re: Mammoth area hot springs?
Summary: Either fix the software or describe locations more completely! 
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:19:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.182652.3453@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Rich Washington) writes:
>
>I remember some discussion in the distant past about hot springs
>in the area around Mammoth, but I didn't save the info.  So, if
>anyone out there knows where you can find publicly-accessible
>hot springs around Mammoth, could you drop me a note?  Email please;
>I'll summarize to the net if there's enough interest.

Well, speaking from experience, I can say that the springs around Mammoth
most emphatically are *not* hot, unless you consider an average temperature
of 50 degrees Fahrenheit to be "hot."  They do, however,  lead to some nice
underground rivers, and without them speleogenesis wouldn't be nearly as
advanced, and ...

What's that you're saying?  Underground rivers?  Speleogenesis?

Oh.  I thought you meant Mammoth *CAVE* in Kentucky ...

				* * *

Actually, I think I do know what you mean, but I'm trying to make a point.
It is not realistic to expect rec.backcountry readers to be psychic and
therefore able to deduce, on the basis of limited information, which of the
zillions of similarly-named mountains/canyons/caves/whatevers is meant by
"Mammoth" (this posting) or some other name sans location.  It would be helpful
if people would describe the object of their inquiries sufficiently to remove
doubts about what they are.

I don't mean to flame Rich for this case; after all, he did try, by
restricting distribution to California (or at least trying), where the term
"Mammoth" is less ambiguous.  However, the current Usenet software seems to
be ignoring distribution limits; we in New Mexico, which assuredly is not part
of California :-), seem to get all sorts of postings that we shouldn't get if
the distribution system works properly.  The right solution is clearly to get
the software straightened out.  But until then, could people please try to be
a little more descriptive in identifying the places they're asking about?
Thanks.

-- 
Bill Johnson				| "This is a bit complicated, so let
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| me explain it backwards."  (first
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| line of a memo from a fellow Los
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| Alamos physicist who will go unnamed)
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:43:03 GMT
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: BSU - Data Center

In article <1992Aug19.172112.10401@morrow.stanford.edu>,
 AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
|>In article <133866@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>,
|>dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
|>>In article <1992Aug19.001343.24761@sequent.com>, karlm@sequent.com (Karl
|>>Maerz) writes:
[beginnings of what I'm sure will be an endless discussion on horses
 on trails ..... deleted]
|> Yet these are standard on the Seurra pack trails.  Secondly, people
|>don't (usually) graze the vegatation at campsites.  I know packer
|>are supossed to bring fodder for the animals so that this does not
|>occur and while I'm sur the commercial outfits who have to protect
|>their licence are very good about this, I've seen private parties
|>violating this rule.
|>

I think it'd be better to not try and make this a real divisive
discussion ... I always try and remind myself that many of the
people I run into 'out there' are there for the same reason I am.
I think Karl made some real good points, though I agree that the
negative comment on horseflies (they really can get very very nasty).
was appropriate.

On the one hand, I'd personally rather there weren't any horses NOR
hikers, for that matter ... I want it all to myself.  But hell, guys,
LEAVE THE TRAILS, and kick down a few cairns :) ...

I think it's great that pack outfits can take handicaped folks out
into the hills ... I like seeing that, and I also like knowing that
many of the horse packers seem sincerely motivated to minimize their
impact on the countryside ... I think these are the folks that hikers
need to try and work with.  If it becomes apparent that a particular
area is being destroyed, then all the folks that are truely concerned
about the area should make a supreme effort to work together to 
determine what the source of the problem is.  And this means that
the horse poop/fly hating hikers need to work with the lycra/ chalk
dust hating packers ... hell, I hate horse poop and flies AND lycra
and chalk. hikers need to deal with what hikers do to destroy things,
and same goes for the packers.  What I truely hope is that many of
the folks in both camps have in common the interest of the health of
the countryside AS THE PRIMARY PRIORITY.

I guess the point is: while packers and hikers are yelling at each other
over poop, chalk dust, lycra and flies, the world is pretty much getting
destroyed.

----
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Mono Pass area backpacking - INFO WANTED
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:11:07 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <Bt5CxC.1It@cup.hp.com> ron@cup.hp.com (Ron Gould) writes:

Hi Ron,

Remember me? We sorta used to work together.

>  There seems to be a little confusion here as to where Mono Pass is.
>  There are two Mono Passes in the Sierra-Nevada that I know about,
>  both are on the Sierra-Nevada crest.  One is the next pass south of 
>  Tioga Pass and is approached from the east up Bloody Canyon which is
>  just north (or NW) of the June Lake area.

Is Bloody Canyon the canyon which holds Parker Lake, Walker Lake or
Gibbs lake?  I was know it is one of them but haven't been into the latter
two.  I believe Mono Pass can be approached from the west as well.  The
confusion about the passes is completely justified.  The northern Mono
pass is near Mono Lake whereas the southern Mono Pass is near Mono creek
and Mono Hot Springs.  

Anyone been to Silver Lake? :-)

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (need source)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:29:01 GMT


In article <Bt4uJ5.J4K@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, grady@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Grady) writes...
>I have cracked several Nalgene bottle lids (tightening too much, I guess),
>and would like to obtain some replacements (the bottles are in fine shape).

This has happened to me also, and it pissed me off.  The
manufacturer goes on about how tough the bottle is, but the lid
cracks during normal use.  I will never bring one of these on a
long trip.

Ed
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brant@seq.uncwil.edu (AT-Dreamer)
Subject: Re: Wanted, good 4-5 day East Coast hike
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:02:26 GMT

I agree the Art Loeb trail is great and wilderness areas
are nice since it is easier to get lost (but i lose my car
at the mall)  Any section of the AT is nice and it's harder to get lost
:-) But you might have to Yo-Yo if you only have one car :-(
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worlds may change, galaxies disintegrate /brant@seq. | Move your Butt Stimpy 
but a woman always remains a woman.     / uncwil.edu | it's a Higher Mammal! 
- Kirk, "Conscience of the King,"      / "Chuck"     |  - Ren Hoek           
From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:06:56 GMT
Subject: Re: When the bee stings.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In article <equacken.713020595@cser>, equacken@cser.encore.com (Eric Quackenbush) writes:
 > What do you all use for bee stings and other painfull insect bites?
 > Do these 'sticks' really work?  What about MSG?  We always carried
 > meat tenderizer on dive boats for jellyfish stings and I think it
 > was the MSG that took the pain out....some what.

and ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) replies:
> The pain is a histamine response.  Taking an oral antihistamine such
> as Benadryl (an allergy pill) works well (although it takes 15 minutes 
> or so to get into your system).  

The sticks ('StingKill' et al) seem to work fairly well. As a beekeeper, I keep
a stock of 'em to hand out to stung kids/friends/strangers as good bee PR. I 
rarely use them myself...the pain abates anyway in a few (about 15;-) minutes.

The pain is in response to the toxins (formic acid et el.). Subsequent swelling
is the allergic (histamine) response to the foreign proteins. Use a sting-kill
to relieve the pain (cold or hot water work too), use the benadryl or a 
cortisone cream to reduce subsequent itching/swelling. The swelling can last
up to three days. Severe swelling can be treated with prescription steroids
(prednisolone, etc.).  *Systemic* reactions are another matter entirely.

I have heard of using meat tenderizer (which contains MSG), never tried it. As
a bee injects the toxin much deeper than a jellyfish, I'd expect a non-
penetrating remedy to be of little use.

Bob (every part of my anatomy's been stung...*every* part) Miller
From: jgotobed@lpl.arizona.edu (Joe Gotobed x4549)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Razors in wilderness
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:41:40 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.


Some time ago I took a week long comercial raft trip through the Grand
Canyon, two boats about a dozzen people each. Among the company was a
family, and the two daughters (17 & 18) who bathed & shaved their legs
& pits *every morning*.

And that river is about 50 degrees. We figured it was just Obsesive
Compulsive Disorder.

Cheers,
Joe
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:13:26 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <14033@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>I'm curious about the third variety.  I do a lot of fishing that involves
>quite a bit of wading.  Most of the time I'm also fishing catch and release
>so I'd like to have a camera that I can take a picture of the nicer fish
>that I might catch.  A small camera that I could carry in my fishing vest
>and not have to worry about getting wet would be real nice.  How's the 
>quality of these cameras.

Worked for my girlfriend and me when we went snorkeling.  Beautiful pictures
of the reef and fish.  *HIGHLY* recommended.

Ken
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: When the bee stings.
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:25:45 GMT
Organization: Cardiothoracic Imaging Research Center

In article <1992Aug5.180835.23098@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>The pain is a histamine response.  Taking an oral antihistamine such
>as Benadryl (an allergy pill) works well (although it takes 15 minutes 
>or so to get into your system).  

One way to slightly decrease the time necessary to get Benadryl into
your system is to use a product like children's Benadryl cough elixir.
Since it's in liquid form, it's absorbed faster; since it's formulated
for children, you can be sloppy about the amount without worrying
about taking too much.

Of course, if you experience a systemic reaction such as anaphylactic
shock (eyes swelling shut, airway constriction, dizziness, massive skin
irritation) then you should get medical attention as soon as possible.
If you find that this is a recurring problem, then you might consider
carrying a product like an Epi-Pen: it's a spring-loaded syringe
containing epinepherine which can used in backcountry emergencies.
It comes in a sturdy plastic tube, and is easy to use (i.e. you don't have
to know how to give injections).  I've been carrying one since I nearly
checked out in 1986; it's a cheap insurance policy.  It's also not a
bad idea to wear a bracelet or necklace advising of your condition.

---Rsk
From: misterl@athena.mit.edu (Lawrence P Lubowsky)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:59:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Aug22.035936.1686
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <LRFPBSCB@cc.swarthmore.edu> Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu> writes:
>In article <14067@auspex-gw.auspex.com> John Fereira, johnf@Auspex.COM
>writes:
>>On a recent fishing trip we were actually talking about how "regular"
>>one is when out in the backcountry.  It dont' think it has anything to 
>>do with instant vs. fresh brewed coffee.
>>
>
>From my experience, it might have something to do with the water...


Not only the quality, but also the quantity.  When I'm in the
backcountry, I drink much more water (usually because of increased
activity).  My body reacts very favorably when I drink more water and
less of all the other crap that I usually drink (soda, beer, Boston
water).   

Larry



--
  Larry Lubowsky         | I'm looking for a job in the Boston area.
  misterl@athena.mit.edu | Computers, Bio-electrical Eng., Medicine
			 | MIT Graduate.  Ask me for my resume.
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Mono Pass area backpacking - INFO WANTED
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:29:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: hacgate.22933
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <51400013@hpscit.sc.hp.com> sommer@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer) writes:
>In rec.backcountry, ehudlick@BBN.COM (Eva Hudlicka) writes:
>> 	Bears - i thought the north/east sierras didn't have much of 
>> 		a bear problem but a ranger informed me over the phone
>> 		that they have them even above the tree line - ???
>> 		so where do you "hang" your food? 
>
>The rangers love to say this kind of stuff.  Bears DO wander above treeline,
>....  But I wouldn't be too
>concerned.

Some people never seem to get it right!  Camping above timberline is
like camping in the desert or in New Mexico, the dangers and 
unpleasantness of which have already been described in detail in this group.

1. The biggest, most vicious bears station themselves on high points 
  with (stolen) binoculars to spot food and particularly juicy campers.
  There is no place to hide the food out of their reach.  They like to 
  roll over on top of tents too.

2. Ferocious winds and lightning are a daily occurrence.
3. The ultraviolet radiation will inevitably cause skin cancer.
4. You will probably die from altitude sickness anyway.
5. It's all just a pile of rocks, and it all looks the same.
   You can see it from a plane.
6. Only elitist bastards go there.  You can never be accepted by the herd
   again when (and if) you return safely.

You are much safer in the trees, where you can hang food and see all the
beauty of nature and help propagate endangered species of mosquito. 

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
What is the world's largest government subsidy to agriculture,
terrorism, speedboat manufacturing, organized crime, and prison
construction?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Thermarest vs. Ridgerest or Ensolite?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 17:45:29 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <BtC6LK.Ip0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lbach@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Loellbach) writes:
>
>I'm trying to decide what kind of sleeping pad to buy.  Thermarests
>seem popular, but they're expensive.  Ridgerests or ensolite pads
>are much less expensive and lighter too.  Weight is not a primary
>concern since we're not backpacking, but we might want to in the
>future.  So what I'm asking is: do thermarests provide that much
>more comfort over ridgerests or ensolite pads to be worth the
>extra money (and weight if you're packing)?
>
>My wife and I camp spring through fall, but not in very cold weather
>so insulation is not critical.  We've used a double air-mattress,
>which I find to be a real pain because when one person moves, it 
>rocks the whole boat, so to speak.  I also tend to slide around on
>it if the ground is not absolutely level.  Lately, if it's warm,
>we've just slept on top of our bags without a pad and been much 
>more comfortable than with the air-mattress.  What we'd like is
>something firm and stable, and preferably joinable (or at least 
>two pads that will stay put next to each other).
>
>Also, is there an FAQ file for this group?  I've checked through
>past postings and didn't see one.  Sorry if I missed it or if this
>was recently covered.  Thanks for any info.
>
>Jim Loellbach
>fsbach@itchy.lerc.nasa.gov

My preference is for RidgeRest pads.  I have a therm-a-rest pad, but
I got tired of blowing it up and patching it.  In cold weather I 
carry two RidgeRest pads.

Also, I don't slide around on RidgeRest pads; thus I can achieve
the necessary gription for backcountry snugglebunnies.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: morgana@infonode.ingr.com (Angela Morgan)
Subject: Re: Another Request, Re: camping in New Mexico?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:43:22 GMT

jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan) writes:

>sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips) writes:

>>I highly recommend the White Mountain Wilderness area around Ruidoso in
>>south central New Mexico, especially in fall.  Magnificent displays of Aspen
>>trees in full fall glory, crisp temperature during the day, clear air, superb
>>long distance views.  Best way from Albuquerque is I25 south to San Antonio, 
>>then state 380 east past Carrizozo to Capitan, then south to Ruidoso.

>Sorry if I came in on this late; I am going to be in Albuquerque towards
>the end of Sept. and am thinking about getting out into the hills;
>I am considering the Pecos Wilderness Area, and the area around
>Jemez Springs, Bandelier Natl Mon., ...
>Advice or other suggestions will be most appreciated.

>Jeff

I'm obviously coming in on this late, too (been out of town lately), but
here goes.  I'll be in New Mexico the week after Labor Day, and am
looking for:  One day hike in, camp 2-3 days in one spot, do day hikes
from the central location, then hike all the way out on the last day.
I'd like to find a place that has a water source fairly nearby.

I've got several guidebooks for reference, but would also like to know
what people on the net can recommend.

Thanks!

--angela

_________________________________________________________________________
|                              |                                        |
|  Angela Morgan, NSS 24044    |  UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!infonode!morgana  |
|  Intergraph Corporation      |  INTERNET: morgana@infonode.ingr.com   |
|  Mailstop LR23A2             |  205/730-8324, FAX 205/730-8300        |
|  Huntsville, AL  35894       |  "Real cavers don't have suntans."     |
|______________________________|________________________________________|
From: davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness (WAS Re: Oregon Wallowas
Keywords: horseshit erosion crowds trash
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:24:13 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

>In article <e8FX02yd1dbo01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes) writes:
>>  "Everyone and everything should be banned from the
>>   *wilderness* except the small number of people who are
>>   willing and able to get there the hard way, and their
>>   simple gear.  If impact increases, access should be made
>>   more difficult, and more restrictions placed on gear."

One way to limit access is to eliminate parking at the trailhead, requiring
some other method of getting there.  Alternatives include bicycles or longer
hikes.  Since a hike along the road is boring bicycles make the most sense.

Some problems:
Carrying the pack.  There is a company that makes panniers that convert to a
backpack.  I don't know any more about it.

Vandalism.  With the current attitude of some toward mountain bikes, it
seems some think a car is a better choice.  Solution: make the bike the only
way to get there.

al.
From: marcus@rugby.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marcus Salyer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:37:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Aug19.203709.23028
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science

In article <1992Aug19.184303.14972@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
[Stuff Deleted]

>I guess the point is: while packers and hikers are yelling at each other
>over poop, chalk dust, lycra and flies, the world is pretty much getting
>destroyed.

This point should appear at the beginning of all posts on this group.
I think it is worth the bandwidth.

>
>----
>Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
>/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
>/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
>/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
>
>
From: bingham@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (David Bingham)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:26:27 GMT
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-GK II
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

  I too have to put in my two cents worth. I bought a Whisperlite because
the size and weight seemed attractive. I found the flame control to be a
MAJOR pain. I couldn't get a decent simmer out of it to save my life. It
seemed to blow out when pressure ran low as well.
  I decedided to pony up another $50 for a Peak I and now I would never go
back. It turns out that the only real issue, IMHO, is the bulk. What is
apparently an advantage in the Whisperlite isn't really the case. The
weight saved is made up for by needing to bring the fuel bottle. Per-
haps that's just a rationalization on my part. The thing that made the
difference in my mind was the ease of lighting (no priming) and the
much better flame control. 

David Bingham
bingham@sr.hp.com