From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len B.)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Freedom of Association,  and Voting???
Keywords: cia, fda, kill file, bush, kissinger, noriega, Khun Sa
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:58:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informed Consent

In article <1992Oct7.145117.8474@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.040248.24701@clipper.ingr.com> ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) writes:
>    >In article <1992Oct2.163842.7950@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com
>    >(Phil Ronzone) writes:
>    >>In article <1992Oct2.011020.23107@clipper.ingr.com>
>    >>ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) writes:
>    >>>Coercion comes in too many forms to be argued as a simple
>    >>>matter of freedom of association. My boss coerces me, I
>    >>>coerce my kids, my wife coerces me, we all coerce each other
>    >>>to some degree, on the freeway, in social settings. But
>    >>>perhaps we have a semantic problem here. The definition of
>    >>>"coerce" which seems most universal is: "to compel to an act
>    >>>or choice." Coercion is not necessarily the use of force, in
>    >>>other words, so it cannot automatically be classified as
>    >>>immoral, and again, the connection to the FOA seems remote.

IMHO perhaps you are misinterpreting the situation or perhaps
you have given your own assertion and ego over to them which
makes you fell this way. We all have choices. Coercion exists
ONLY in teh mind of that person who feels they are being
coerced. Coercion itself is not real.

>    >>>
>    >>Do you have a choice with respect to boss and wife? Can you
>    >>not say, "Sorry, but this is not for me. Let's not associate
>    >>anymore."?
>    >>
>    >>You can't say that to the State now can you? Hey boss, I'm
>    >>not going to work here anymore, and you of course won't pay
>    >>me anymore.
>    >>
>    >>Hey State, I'm not using your services anymore (like, say,
>    >>the Amish) so let's not associate anymore ...
>    >>
>    >>
>    >Well, you may certainly choose to join the underground
>    >economy, go live in the hills, or start your own country in
>    >the South Pacific. But you may find that you are being
>    >coerced to an even greater degree than you are now.
>    >
>    >Certainly one may exercise one's freedom of association if
>    >one feels that one is overly coerced in a given relationship.
>    >But one would exercise one's freedom of association for a
>    >million other reasons as well. The link between the FOA and
>    >coercion is only incidental inotherwords. I suppose enough
>    >coercion could be applied that your FOA would be rendered
>    >useless (as if you were chained in the Gulag) but this is a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can always choose to die...the ultimate rebellion. Not tha I
favor suicide....but we all have choices...only fear prevents us
from applying them in the real world.

>    >moral abomination for other reasons than the denial of FOA.
>
>Huh?
>
>Freedom Of Association (FOA) exists ONLY WITHOUT coercion.

How so Phil? Please explain it to us. FoA exists with OR without
coercion. One does not have to cooperate even in a coercive
situation. If one does, then one has of their own free will
associated with someone/something that is applying coercion.
Ergo FoA is an instrinsic operative capability that functions
with or without us.
>
>You post is meaningless.
And YOU should know about meaningless posts.
>
>How can you "exercise FOA" if one "feels" that one is "overly coerced"?
I explained it above.
>
>Tell me -- how does your wife "coerce" you?
That is absolutely NONE of YOUR business!!!! ;^)
>
>I don't coerce you.
We dont really care about what yuo do or dont do.
>
>Just WHAT is this initiation of force that your wife enages in? And
>have you considered calling the police the next time she does this?
>
>
>
>-- 
>phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
>
>If all the contributions of Dead White Males, a.k.a. Dead White Loathsome
>Oppressors, were to vanish, you'd have the Politically Correct(tm) Loathsome
>Oppressors using dull rocks to hunt and the Politically Correct Women of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Vision and Strength(tm) using leaves for tampons.

I feel sorry for your wife bud...you are a WORLD CLASS
IDIOT....as well as a chauvanist according to the above
statement......and a rather depressing one to boot!
>
>These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)

Len

DISCLAIMER: My opnions not my employer's
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: ba.politics