HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Apportioning blame
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:30:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude

In article <37265@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
> By that same
> sort of law-of-the-jungle logic, you would have no right to private
> property, and all your elegant economic theories would come crashing
> down.

Not at all. If there's no one else, there's no one to dispute my
property rights.

> We are supposedly talking about the functioning of a cohesive human
> society.  So let's redefine "basic human rights" as "the minimum
> services that people can rely on" to maintain that cohesiveness.

Let's not. The Roman Empire lasted for over a millenia (a lot better
than any modern state). So you'd say that the people there had their
"basic human rights"?

> I don't understand why economic conservatives have such a hard time
> conceptualizing people as resources.

I have no problem doing so. It's because I consider people so valuable
and essential that I believe that they should be as free as possible.

Since I don't use law as the basis of my morality, I see a large
difference between a human _right_ which exists because humans exist,
and societal conventions that promote the general welfare of society's
members. I would not disagree that some level of basic support would
be of benefit to society, but that's very different than saying people
have a _right_ to that support. And when I hear that cable television
or CAT scans are "basic human rights" I think we've gone a bit too
far.

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Pessimism
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:01:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep29.002157.29910@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.213711.4835@oracle.us.oracle.com>,
>mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

>>Actually, I think the tunnle vision is on the other side.  See below...

>>>The Irish may be the n-----rs of the British Isles and the Chinese
>>>may have come here because of the Opium Wars, overpopulation, famine
>>>and what not.  But on the totem pole, [...] Asians
>>>are admitted more into white suburbs than economically or
>>>intellectually fit Afro-Americans--in other words, they have what I
>>>call "honorary white status."

>>So how did they get this "honorary white status"?  Perhaps whites just
>>naturally find yellow more aesthetically pleasing than black?  Or
>>maybe it's something a little more complicated.

>Yeah, stupid. Maybe, just maybe, it's racism.

Jeeze.  Talk about tunnel vision....

So why are whites so racist against blacks but not against Chinese?
(And please don't say it's because Chinesehave "honorary white
status".)



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Robert Barton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Black Racism - Language
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:35:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BvF07v.92I
Organization: Organization

In article <3779.117.uupcb@travel.com> carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)  writes:
>
>Following the previously discussed concept of "A little racism towards
>Whites every once in a while", I'm looking for examples of Black
>Racism towards Whites in language. Derogatory remarks like
>"Whitefeather" or "Whitesock".
>Any examples welcome.


  There are quite a few of these; whitebread, lily white, white minority,
etc
From: johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Perot's back in
Date: 3 Oct 92 18:04:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: pslu1.1992Oct3.180449.18083
Distribution: na
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison

In article <1992Oct2.153447.8838@cbnewse.cb.att.com>  
ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:
> when i saw the parade [or should i say CHARade] of democratic and
> republican delegations addressing perot and his "volunteers" in
> dallas earlier this week i viewed it as one big orgy of mutual
> self-indulgence.  how ridiculous!  these folks go into a closed
> room with perot being a self-declared power broker [or was that
> "a servent of the people"...hmmm, sounds like standard political
> fare], going into a closed room [democracy in action] to discuss
> something called, "the issues".

     Wasn't that bizarre? It was like watching one of those weird 3 AM  
sci-fi movies where delegations from Earth meet with the commander of the  
flying saucer fleet from the planet Xemu.
 
     [...stuff deleted...]
 
> i think the perot candidacy is of more interest to the media and
> other politicians than it is to most other people.
> 
> this guy is starting to look more like lyndon larouche every day...

     Or the commander of the flying saucer fleet from the planet Xemu.
 
> 
> -- 
>   __  ______  __  / __/ |       at&t bell laboratories, naperville il,  
usa
> _/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/  .       ronald@iexist.att.com /  
att!iexist!ronald
> "if you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes" -- edmund wilson

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: hra360f1@beach.csulb.edu (Tiwana Reed)
Subject: Re: Prejudice vs racism
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:24:36 GMT

In response to your article Prejudice vs racisim.  Yes I believe their is a
different between the terms.  First of all, to be prejudice is simply to
prejudge a situation.  I'm sure everybody has something to say about a pesron 
from time to time. you are just prejuding them as an individual.  A racists 
tends to judge a ethnic group as a whole.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Worldview and european Anti-Africanism 1
From: <SBEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 11:25:09 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
===Worldview is the way in which a collective(group) form and relate to the
===universe.  It defines and limits reality for the collective , as well as
===producing culture, which serves to affirm and pertepuate it.  It gives the
===culture it's ethos and the assumption which will form the basis of value and
===importance(ideology).  Therefor by looking at a culture-which will reflect
===the worldview-it is possible to define the worldview of major groups of
==="hue-manity".  European culture has one concept at its base the seperation
===of "man" and nature.
===This is seen in the european religion from the greeks to the christians,
===in european literature and philosophy from Plato and Homer to Marx and
===Nietzsche.  And most importantly in the european sciences.  This
==="man"/nature dichotomy is the foundation of all other european dicotomies,
===and there are many.  This need for the spliting up of everything into linear
===catergories where one is valued(superior) and the other de-valued(inferior)
===is a uniquely european enterprise.  *All other* cultures in the world
===recognize the connection between man and nature(spirit) and seek to form a
===connection with it in differing degrees.
===It is the lack of a natural(spiritual) connection and in fact the attempt
===to negate this connection which marks the european.  It can  infact be said
===that the europeans have no spirit(soul,rhythm).  Given this, the effects of
===europen culture are not confusing or characteristic of "hue-manity" they are
===demonstrable pshyco-historically and culturally.
-------------
     The necessary re-education of Blacks and a possible solution of racial
     crisis can only begin, strangley enougph, only when Blacks fully realize
     this central fact in their lives:  The white man is their bitter enemy.
           "The Destruction of Black Civilization"
                       C.Williams
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Marxism (was Re: Pessimism
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:38:49 GMT

This is in reply to heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath), who wrote:
:In article <1992Sep27.043707.12309@gagme.chi.il.us> barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart) writes:
:
:
:>I passionately believe, as does any good parent over in Japan, that
:>if today's kids are all educated it will *create* jobs.  That's the one
:>reason to hang onto Jack Kemp with all his shortcomings, unseemly
:>affiliations, and conservatism: because he really thinks there's room
:>for everybody to be their best (at least philosophically this is his
:>message).  I do too.
:
:	Its a really nice thought, but once we all make it to the
:boardroom whose going to take out the garbage?
:

Maybe some "maintenance engineers" earning 12 bucks an hour ... ?

Aaron

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: afadel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ayman Fadel)
Subject: Af-Ams in the U.S. Military
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:14:23 GMT

Greetings,

I guess I didn't make my question clear enough.

I saw earlier this year how Colin Powell was going to
have a ceremony for the Buffalo soldiers.  I always here
Af-ams say, in response to Eur-ams who question their
patriotism, "We fought in all the U.S.'s wars."  I was
in the Atlanta airport sometime last year when I saw
this big family with about 9 grandchildren welcoming
their *grandmother* back from the war in Iraq.

I mentioned in my earlier postings how colonized peoples
often fought in the wars of their colonizers, and how
those people today do not view these wars or their
participation in these wars to be things to be mentioned
with pride.

Then I mentioned the example of Muhammad Ali, who
refused to fight in Vietnam.  I guess you could
also talk about malik ash-shabbaaz and Martin Luther
King who didn't approve of fighting in the U.S.'s wars,
although for different reasons.

The question I'm trying to ask is, "Why does it seem
that so much attention in Af-am history is given
to Af-ams in the U.S. military?"

A related question is, "Should the military be considered
an honorable profession, or is it just something to
do to put bread on the table?"

sincerely,
ayman


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Defeating the myth of "races"
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:43:40 GMT





    testing
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Discrimination in Science?
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 01:00:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.171556.59350@cc.usu.edu> slzm9@cc.usu.edu writes:
>    I am in a class called Publications, Presentations, and Grants in
> the Life Sciences. Next Tuesday, Oct. 6th, we are having a discussion
> on discrimination in science and its ramifacations. The instructor
> is centering the discussion on sexual discrimination which has been
> well documented. I asked if we could discuss racial discrimination
> and he said we could but that he had no papers on the topic. He also
> said that if he had seen one we would be discussing it too.
> 
> Anyway does anyone out there know of a paper that discusses racial
> discrimination in the sciences either in general or in specific?
> 
> Would you please give me a reference if you have one?
> 
> 
> Peace, but not without justice,
> 
> Zip

     If your instructor is willing to wait a month or so before discussing  
possible racial discrimination in the sciences, there is going to be a  
cover story in the November 13 issue of "Science" entitled "Minorities in  
Science...A Search for Solutions" which is supposed to deal with this  
issue.

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Africans in the Military 	
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:08:05 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american

As quoted from <jumper.717697806@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> by jumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham):

> Yup, check out the video/movie _a soldier's story_ and the first-sergeant in
> it gives some vivid recollections of his wwi experience and how it embittered
> him.  it also plays a role in his testimony about a murder in the movie. 

I thought that Adolph Caeser was excellent in the role.  I watched "The Young
Indiana Jones Chronicles" last night and it occurs to me that if they're going
to follow in their present style of story, it's hard to justify Indy not 
crossing paths with Black American troops eventually, especially since he
seems to be in a Belgian unit stuck with the French.  

By the way, he met Siegfried Sassoon last night.  Anybody know of any famous
Blacks who served with the AEF?  I can't think of any, but there's a million
who were in WWII, including the late Harold Washington.



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 26 Sep 92 17:04 PDT
Subject: Cornell Symposium on Somalia
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700127:000:1461
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep 26 17:04:00 1992


There will be a symposium at Cornell University, tentatively Oct.15-16, on
"Somalia: Human Disaster and World Politics."

Jeffrey Clark of the US Committee for Refugees is scheduled to speak.
He has dynamic plans for aiding Africa and is forthright in his criticism
of agencies who, he believes, did not and do not act with enough 
commitment.

The coordinator for the symposium is Joanne Mulondo, telephone
607-255-6849.

Some good news:  Clark says when he was in Somalia, he saw Save the Children
really making a difference in people's lives.  He says it is worth it to
send aid.  The "half the aid is looted" phrase we read so often is,a
according to Clark, a media catchphrase and a distortion.

Other good news is the fact that grassroots activity is on the increase
everywhere.  The teach-in on Somalia is coming up in Ontario, the
benefit in Calgary was held today, the Irish/Choctaw march for
Somalian relief is going on right now, and, of course, there was
the letter-writing campaign from Davidson College which resulted in
150 letters to public officials requesting aid for Somalia.
Bread for the World has a letter-writing campaign underway for the
whole of Africa and so does RESULTS.

I found a big envelope today in my mailbox from the Office of Foreign
Disaster Assistance in response to my earlier fax to them, with
a letter from James Kunder and a brochure on how much OFDA is doing.
So people are paying attention to letters from citizens.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: govender@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Govender)
Subject: Re: Goldstone on Bisho
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand
Date:  2 Oct 92 14:09:57 GMT

In <1992Oct1.221609.26345@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:


>Most pertinently: the ANC have stated their intention to IGNORE
>Goldstone's finding. Just cock a snook. That's telling.

not true. the star has reported that the anc will not censure kasrils on the
grounds that that the bisho march (and "attempt" to occupy the city innards)
was a decision of its nec and that therefore blame cannot be apportioned
to kasrils alone. however in its self righteous wisdom the anc has decided
that any censure of its nec will be a private matter (that means there will
be a delay of at least a week before it is leaked to the sunday star)

this implies at least a sense of collective responsibility on the issue.
when last did the sa cabinet take collective responsibility for any of the
crap perpetuated in its name?

was that just some more subtle disinformation or is it that we read different
newspapers?
			   
morgan govender
govender@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za


Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5012 sanet.talk.politics:46 apc.reg.safrica:22
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics,apc.reg.safrica
Subject: Re: Goldstone on Bisho
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:16:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Oct1.221609.26345
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

paul@frcs.Alt.ZA (Paul Nash) writes:

: The above notwithstanding, Gavan's view is very clear:  the ANC were in
: the wrong, and were to blame, and so get hammered.  

Don't know where you got that from, really beats me. The ANC didn't
lose out, they got a convenient massacre, courtesy of some homeland
thugs, and they got it by deliberately leading ordinary people into
a situation of extreme danger, disregarding all reasonable pleas that
they should not. That's one of Goldstone's findings.

Most pertinently: the ANC have stated their intention to IGNORE
Goldstone's finding. Just cock a snook. That's telling.

: Maybe, Gavan, you
: should start thinking about the people killed, about the people who
: pulled the triggers, and about the people who ordered those triggers
: pulled. 

Leaving my moral fibre out of this, and concentrating on the point, the
people who should be caring are the mass actors. Of course they don't,
because their stated intention is to use people as means to ends, quite
simply. That is what mass action does, inevitably.

: The victim, it would seem, is always wrong, especially if he is a member
: of the ANC/SACP/Cosatu, or maybe just wants peace and democracy.

Confusing victims again. The people in the wrong are clearly the homeland
thugs and the ANC, which can be discerned directly from the facts of the
matter. I'm just reporting Goldstone's confirmation of my own earlier reading
of the events, and noting more than a little contempt on the part of
the ANC for anti-violence measures like the Goldstone com. and the National
Peace Accord.  

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Mr Aaron Barnhart / IPS
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:17:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2525.2ACF374C
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

I'm new.  :)

Could anyone give me a quick rundown of how/why we get the
deliciously wide spread of (obviously commercial) bulletins
from IPS.

Chus,
Wally



--  
INTERNET: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Jim Rosenfield <jnr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 05 Oct 92 22:25 PDT
Subject: Re: 10/5 Africa/Hunger news stories
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1471700158:cdp:1471700161:000:1656
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Oct  5 22:25:00 1992


/* Written 10:23 pm  Oct  5, 1992 by jnr in cdp:hunger.general */
APn  10/03 1537  Somalia-Ireland

Use with permission of The Associated Press.

MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Irish President Mary Robinson began a
two-day visit to this starving nation Saturday with a stop in
Baidoa, one of the towns hardest hit by the crisis. 

"More than 100 people died while we were there," she said of her
tour of feeding and therapeutic centers run by the Red Cross and
the Irish agencies Concern and Goal. 

"I wanted to present a positive image, so I smiled through my
tears," she said after arriving in the capital, Mogadishu, where
she met with U.N. special envoy Mohamed Sahnoun and the heads of
various relief agencies. 

"It is very hard to say how you feel after seeing something like
that," said Mrs. Robinson, who is scheduled to address the United
Nations this week. 

Up to 350 people are dying each day in Baidoa despite an
international relief operation. 

Drought and clan warfare have claimed at least 100,000 lives, and
aid officials say 2 million Somalis are in danger of starvation. 

"But I did see some very positive results in the food kitchens,"
she said. 

Mrs. Robinson said she will use her U.N. address urge the nations
of the world to bring more relief to the suffering of Somalia. 

"The world must take responsibility for what's happening here,"
she said. "The Somali people have a right to share our world." 

She recalled that in the last century, the Choctaw Indians of
Oklahoma, themselves being dispossessed from their native
homeland, raised $700 for Irish famine victims. 

"It is that kind of compassion we need here," she said.
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: gatsha on the warpath
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:42:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Oct6.074225.18591
Distribution: soc
Organization: Wits Univ. Computer Science Dept.

In article <1992Oct4.4292.7220@dosgate>, "colin perkel" <colin.perkel@canrem.com> writes:
>    Read with some consternation Buthelezi's contention that the Spear of
> the Nation (Umkonte Im Sizwe?) must disband or he'd declare war on the
> ANC.
>    I mean is this guy a bit off or what.
>    Are we talking about a legitimate desire to share in the power
> structure or something far more sinister.
>    Seems ironic coming on a day that Renamo and Frelimo finally get
> around to shaking bloody hands.
> 
Latest: Ciskei dictator Oupa Gqoza meets AWB leader Eugene Terre'blanche
at the Sandton Sun, followed by a joint meeting of Oupa, Gatsha and
Mongope with Conservative Party today.

At least these guys are pinning their colours to the mast now - no
more pretense that they are liberals. I wonder when the Institute of
Race Relations will start accusing the ANC of unfairly calling the
CP racists?
-- 
Philip Machanick                   philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za
Department of Computer Science, University of the Witwatersrand
2050 Wits, South Africa
phone 27(11)716-3759 fax 27(11)339-7965