From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:39:15 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1avro0INNdl0@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>>> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
> 
> [ some System 7 features vs. OS/2 features...]
> 
>>>>* Support for "live copy and paste" between applications that aren't running
>>> Don't know what that means.
> 
>>If you change something in document A that you've pasted into document B,
>>the changes get updated in B.
> 
> Hmm, sounds like DDE, no?

No. You deleted important parts of my post. 

DDE only works if two applications are running on the same machine at the
same time.

The Edition Manager works with applications that aren't running at the same
time, or even applications that are running on different machines on the same
network.

Two different things entirely.

>>>>* Built-in support for standard 24-bit color, with automatic interpolation
>>> 
>>> Device Independent Graphics means any video device could be supported,
>>> be it 1-bit or 24-bit, with the necessary device driver.
> 
>>I had more conditions, if you read on, but yes. Do these devices exist
>>for OS/2? Are there device drivers for this stuff? 24-bit color devices are
> 
> These devices do exist, device driver is another matter.  Unfortune-
> nately, most video manufacturers have thrown their support behind
> Windows instead of OS/2, I'm not happy about it, IBM should really be
> actively pursuing manufacturers for driver support, this is important
> to the success of OS/2.

The answer is that this stuff doesn't exist for OS/2.

>>commonplace in the Mac market, and some Macs have this built in. I haven't
>>seen the same for the PC market.
> 
> All the 24-bit video cards have Windows drivers, if they don't, they
> can't expect to stay in business.

Except that neither Windows or OS/2 can meet the other requirements of
colors support: automatic interpolation to differing bit depths and
support for multiple monitors.

>>>>  to differing bit depths. The ability to support multiple monitors with
> 
>>How about OS/2 applications, not DOS apps?
> 
> The Pallatte Manager will do its best to allocate the desired color for
> each application.

Perhaps OS/2 comes part of the way.

>>>>  differing depths, and to change the depth on the fly. (Not, Not)
>>> 
>>> Multiple monitors is theoretically possible if hardware exists.
> 
>>But it doesn't. And can you change the depth on the fly? (Windows can't)
> 
> Let's leave the question unanswered until the hardware comes out.

Well, you can change the depth of ONE monitor. You don't need new hardware
for that.

>>>>* Human Interface Guidelines and standards sufficient to form consistancy 
>>>>  between applications (Not, Perhaps)
>>> 
>>> HIG in IBM world is CUA (Common User Access), current spec is CUA 92.
> 
>>A) is it any good? and B) is anything written to support it)
> 
> Good?  That's a very subjective term, each person has his/her own tastes
> and opinions, I personally think it's quite intuitive, your milage may
> vary.  

Interesting.

> As to support, it's a bit lacking in that area, hopefully not for long.

Too bad.

>>>>* Standard support for temporal data, graphics data compression, both for
>>>>  static and real-time graphics and sound. (QuickTime) (Not, Not) 
>>> 
>>> Different standards, MPC and Ultimedia.
> 
>>Incomplete standards. They both require specific hardware. Ouch. QuickTime
> 
> Specific hardware?  Not necessarily, you can run multimedia apps with
> existing hardware, even digitized sound from the internal speaker/
> beeper.  But QuickTime also needs specific hardware, for starters, you
> need a Mac, ;-) also you need the ROMs with 32-bit QuickDraw in them.
> Right?

You need Color Quickdraw. System 6.0.5 and above patches in 32-bit QuickDraw
if you have Color Quickdraw.

> I don't know why you would think the multimedia standards of Windows and
> OS/2 are incomplete, specific examples?

Well, I don't see any acceptance of MultiMedia application in those markets.
Perhaps I'm out of touch, but QuickTime has garnered tons of acceptance.

If you want to do MultiMedia, there's no doubt that the Mac is the preferred
platform.

>>>>* Automatic slot conflict resolution (NuBus and Slot Manager) (Not, Not)
>>>>  ( MCA helps, but it isn't automatic )
>>> 
>>> Hardware issue, both MCA and EISA have auto device configuration,
>>> running some register setup program during device installation.
> 
>>Important hardware issue. Hardware is part of the system.
> 
> But that's not what we're talking about here, we're supposed to talk
> about features of System 7 and OS/2.

This is a feature of System 7.

>>> Of course, OS/2 has quite a bit of features that MacOS doesn't have:
>>> pre-emptive MT, memory protection, multithreading, OO GUI, REXX, etc.
> 
>>Aside from REXX (oog), the remainder are cool technology, but offer
>>doubtful benefit to the user, as we have discussed.
> 
> Bill, you keep saying that features like preemptive MT have negligible
> benefit to the user and therefore are a nonfactors, I disagree, maybe
> users are just not aware of the potential of preemptive MT, 

EXACTLY. 

> when I
> was running Windows I was very conscious about how many apps I have
> running (I usually keep the number below 10, around 5), with OS/2, I
> don't even think twice about starting another process, since I know I
> can switch between them instantaneously and no one program can bog the
> whole system down.

Well, when I'm running on the Mac, I don't have to be very concious about
how many Apps I'm running. Perhaps the problem here isn't preemptive versus
cooperative, but good preemptive versus lousy cooperative.

> As to the benefit of memory protection, I think lots of Mac users here 
> would disagree with you.

Memory protection is only good when applications crash. Applications shouldn't
crash. (At least not for users) So the user benefit is extremely limited.

Now, memory protection for developers is a huge benefit, but developers are 
only a tiny percentage of the user community at large.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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