From: Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Miracleman #23: Afterthinks
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:57:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: tandem.1992Oct5.175729.10858
Organization: In Effect Enterprises

In article <1992Oct5.002203.28812@u.washington.edu>, number6@milton.u.washington.edu (John Drake) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct4.230619.26096@tandem.com> Montague_Kevin@Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev) writes:
> 
> >3 Why doesn't MM reconstitute Bates?  NOT KM, but Bates?  As long as the cloned
> >  KM body is taken out of infraspace, or whatever that region is called, then
> >  Johnny's no threat.  And MM seemed to geniunely like the kid.
> 
> >4 MM and Moran *are* the same person.  I got tired of arguing with you mutton-
> >  heads before, but I'm refreshed now.  Bring it on. . .
> 
> 	"One of these things, is not like the other ... One of these
> 	things, doesn't belong ... "  :)

THAT's *funny*. . .

> 	How can you, with a straight face, say these statements back 
> 	to back?  If MM *is* Moran, then KM *is* Bates.  A much 
> 	darker side of Bates, but still Bates.

True.  Your point?

> 	Of course, I don't buy that myself ... but you can't have 
> 	it one way for KM and another way for MM.  It's the same
> 	process.  

What you're missing is the fact that I'm talking about what *MM* would want,
not Kev.  We've  been shown that it's possible, and that it was used 
because he missed Dicky, and that MM genuinely liked Bates.  So why wouldn't
he bring him back?  The fact that MM thinks of two-body superhumans as two
different people supports this (and points out his intellectual blind spot, 
yet again).  Andrew cuts through all this admirably:

Andrew M. Solovay  (solovay@netcom.com) sez:
>MM does not think of himself as the same person as Mike Moran, or vice
>versa. Moore was very consistent about this; each talks about the
>other in the third person. To me, this indicates that MM never
>adjusted well to having multiple bodies. MW talks about her different
>bodies as if they were outfits (both in Moore and Gaiman issues),
>which seems a more accurate (and well-adjusted approach). It brings
>us back to MiracleMan not being very clever.

>From a "real-world" perspective, I think that if Gaiman stayed concious of all
the nuances, this could be the best story yet.  The nature of superhumans and
schizophrenia, as well as the other neuroses we poor mortals inherit anyway. . .
Feel the chill creep up your spine. . .
 
> 	For my money, I'd say that MM *isn't* Moran ... but he used
> 	to be.  He started out with exactly the same memories, and 
> 	therefore exactly the same feelings ... but since he has a 
> 	brain that is structurally different, both physically and 
> 	chemically, he gradually became a unique individual.  IMHO.

Save your funds.  For starters, consider one of the things that MM/Moran hasn't
troubled to: there are enhanced folks out there with entire "wardrobes."  Do 
they have entire "wardrobes" of personalities?  Clearly not.  There's an 
elaborate headgame going on here that Moran is completely unaware of.  Bate's
way of dealing with it drove him insane, Moran's did, in a different way (cf.
his "suicide").  Interesting that MW had no problem coping.  Hmm. . .
 
Kevvy Kev
RWe fail to imagine, and reality is what weUre punished with.S
  -Phil Seleski
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc