HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:05:17 GMT
Organization: Nottingham University


I am puzzled by the supply situation with RISC OS 3.10. I don't see why 
posting about such things should lead to insults being posted.

The RISC OS 3.10 ROMS must have been produced in bulk, since they had to
come all the way from Japan. Acorn has long spoken of "market saturation"
with the product, and has also spoken of "massive demand" being expected.

Why then have certain dealers not received any upgrades at all? Why the
shortage? I don't understand why I should be criticised for saying this,
or why I am criticised by *one person* (Merlyn Kline) for recommending
that people check out RISC OS 3.10 before buying it for ordinary ARM2
machines.

Simon Burrows.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: rhorne@cix.compulink.co.uk (Roger Horne)
Subject: Re: ARcterm7 and KA9Q
Reply-To: rhorne@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:33:36 +0000


 
  > coexist peacefully ?? I'm trying to use Arcterm7 to dial my
  > Internet gate, and then switch into KA9Q to run the SLIP
  > session. It would appear at first glance that Arcterm7
  > doesn't approve of other comms programs running alongside
  > it. Can anyone comment on 
 
Paul Moore (gustav@morpheus.demon.co.uk) wrote a script which does this. Add
login and password at the appropriate places and change the parameters if
necessary.
 
BTW Anthony Frost's ReaderS now works with a modified KA9Q. It is a *vast*
improvement on !BM. email vulch@kernow.demon.co.uk.

Roger Horne
roger@number7.demon.co.uk
 
*********************************

main ()
{
integer online
  online=port_dcd()
    if(setup_and_dial()=0)
    {
      return(0)
    }

  oscli("WimpTask Run <TCPIP$Dir>")
  shutdown()

}
  
anykey ()
  {
    type cr
  }


setup_and_dial ()
  {
  set(terminal,vt102)
  port_txspeed(9600)
  port_rxspeed(9600)
  $port_wordformat("8N1")
  modem_standard("v22bis")
  modem_errorcontrol("mnp5")
    while(modem_dial("081 343 4848",1)<>0)
    {
      prints "ReDialling"+newline
      waitfor("anything", 1000)
    }
    prints newline

 pause(200)
  type cr+cr
  pause(200)
                                    
  ; Wait for name prompt
  if (waitfor("gin:",30000))
    {
    endlogon()
    return
    }

  type "My_Login"+cr

  if (waitfor("word:",6000))
    {
    endlogon()
    return
    }
  type "My_Password"+cr

return(1)
  }

anykey ()
  {
  type cr
  }


endlogon ()
  {
  modem_disconnect()

  }
From: tomc@siesoft.co.uk (Tom Crossland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: ARcterm7 and KA9Q
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:29:25 GMT
Reply-To: tomc@siesoft.co.uk
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.

nicho@VNET.IBM.COM writes:
: In <1992Sep8.124530.857@siesoft.co.uk> Tom Crossland writes:
: >I would guess it's because they both want access to the serial port
: >simultaneously, so when KA9Q pulls some data from the serial input
: >buffer, ArcTerm can't see it, and visa versa.
:   I'd buy this, except that a combination of KA9Q and GrapeVine
: works perfectly. I'm desperately looking for a solution, otherwise
: I'm going to have to send Arcterm7 back. I can live without BBS access,
: I can't live without Internet :-)

The difference is Grapevine doesn't multi-task while accesing the serial
port (to my recollection).
From: ernie@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Ernest Ong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: A3010 views
Date: 12 Sep 1992 15:12:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Dear Jim,

It is nice to see people with Amigas taking an active interest in the
Arc!

As Pete said, you win some, you lose some... I am no technical person
but I have used an Amiga 500 briefly and the speed is quite (sorry to
say this) appaling when compared with the Arc. I'm not talking about
games or demos but just simple, normal usage of the machine to get
something done. 

Even the the original A3000 was `nicer' to use (I now have an A5000).
However, if you do want to use it for tasks that do not require
super-charged graphics (and super-charged graphics performance) then the
Arc should serve you well. Also note that the Arc's GUI is REALLY nice -
I consider it one of the best that I've ever used.

However, the Arc's graphics is looking a little pale at the moment.
Those graphics specs you gave are rather impressive. But as you know,
Acorn IS working on VIDC2 which is rumoured to support a 24-bit palette
and at least a REAL 16-bit screen mode. And I'd guess that one would be
able to (with some trickery) replace our current VIDCs for the new one
(if someone doesn't figure it out, Atomwide will!).

The next Acorn machine will probably be a high-end one, so too bad for
most of us... but they should be making the VIDC2 available then too.
So, even if we aren't too flash in the graphics arena, just hang on in
there...we're getting there.

Best of luck with your choice, but I do hope you'll take the ONLY risc
worth taking! 

cheers, ernie.

P.S. I'm no techy person. If anything above is incorrect, please correct
me. Thanks.
From: dwallin@acorn.co.uk (Dick Wallin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 7 Sep 92 08:49:11 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <Bu5Mp8.A0q@newcastle.ac.uk> Oliver.Cornes@newcastle.ac.uk (Ollie W Cornes) writes:

>In article <1992Sep5.184331.23268@cs.nott.ac.uk> smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows) writes:
>>If you are running on an 8MHz ARM2 machine, I wouldn't advise that you
>>rush into upgrading to RISC OS 3.10. If possible, see it working on
>>somebody else's 8MHz ARM2 before taking the plunge, and make up your
>>mind whether the speed is acceptable for you or not.

>...stuff deleted...

>I did hear that Acorn didn't notice how slow it is on an ARM2, because 
>of course they all have ARM3's, somewhat like the filecore in use error
>because they don't use floppies....

Not true (in the first case anyway) as most of the machines around me are bog standard
420's or 440's. (quickly counts up) 17 machines, 1 540, 2 5000's, 1 440/1 with ARM3
(a secretary's machine ... these were upgraded as these people are important!) 1 420/1,
2 old 440's with 20 MB HD's and 10 440/1's. Mind you, I've got one of the 5000's and if 
I didn't I'd be VERY quick to get an ARM3!

Dick
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:16:21 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <ladrgfINN9vo@cronkite> andyf@yama.uk.sun.com writes:
>In reply to your questions...........
>
>The upgrade for the older machines consists of a ROM carrier board which enables
> ...

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the best answer to a question phrased
as 'will acorn please tell me ...' comes from Sun customer support? :-)

G
--
From: michael@uk.ac.oxford.robots (& Stevens)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 8 Sep 92 10:04:45 GMT
Organization: Dept. Engineering Science, Oxford University, UK
In-reply-to: dwallin@acorn.co.uk's message of 7 Sep 92 08:49:11 GMT

>In article <1992Sep5.184331.23268@cs.nott.ac.uk> smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows) writes:
>>If you are running on an 8MHz ARM2 machine, I wouldn't advise that you
>>rush into upgrading to RISC OS 3.10. If possible, see it working on
>>somebody else's 8MHz ARM2 before taking the plunge, and make up your
>>mind whether the speed is acceptable for you or not.

Whats all this about RISC OS 3.10 being slow? I was just about to
spend my cash on it.

What bits are slow, desktop? filing system? multitasking?

Can anyone enlighten us on this or should we put it down to the mad
ravings of a man tormented by guilt at already having a new set of ROMS?

--
Michael Stevens, Robotics Research Group,Dept of Engineering Science,Oxford,UK
INTERNET: michael@robots.oxford.ac.uk
From: jamesh@castle.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:19:53 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In a recent article I saw this:

>If you are running on an 8MHz ARM2 machine, I wouldn't advise that you
>rush into upgrading to RISC OS 3.10. If possible, see it working on
>somebody else's 8MHz ARM2 before taking the plunge, and make up your
>mind whether the speed is acceptable for you or not.

I'm thinking of adding RO 3.10 to my A310 (4 megs + 40 meg HD) and I
was wondering just how the new OS slows things down. I only have a
standard colour monitor so the performance in hi-res modes isn't all
that important. Does it slow the whole machine down or is it only in the
desktop that things run slowly? And just how much slower would it be?

James
-- 
  James Hammerton,2nd year Computer Science at University of Edinburgh
  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.castle   Or: jh@uk.ac.ed.dcs
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: From inside the cathouse...
From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz (Philip R. Banks)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:57:04 +1200
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: My Arc.

postmaster@acorn.co.uk (postmaster) writes:

> Think about a 12MHz ARM2as + VIDC + MEMC all macrocelled and packaged within
> the same ASIC... The word is Acorn have got one in the lab codenamed "Louie";
> and it's currently being bugfixed prior to use in forthcoming machines. As to
> whether this is MEMC1a/2 and VIDC2/20, anyone care to leak some more?
It is interesting to note that all of Acorn's news postings seem to have
a path of !mcsun!acorn!<user> rather than this ones !acorn.co.uk!<user>.
Given that and the sender line and I wonder who the smart alec is at
Berkeley...

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks  Syntax: mail < banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >            @@@@@/|
                                                                        @@@@/#|
This is Philip's backup .sig file. If you would like to apply for       @@@/##|
advertsing space in it please send email to him. Of course if you       @@/---|
merely want to talk to him then email will do too...                    @/    |
From: tomc@siesoft.co.uk (Tom Crossland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Thanks for the help
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:32:40 GMT
Reply-To: tomc@siesoft.co.uk
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.

lithgow@usl.com (Malcolm Lithgow) writes:
: P.S. Does anyone have any experience using 340MB SCSI HD's on the Arc?

Yep... and it wasn't a nice experience. The fault was due to the HD rather
than the interface though, it was an old Fujitsu job taken off a VAX at some
stage, and it was physically immense ;-) We're talking 37kg here, not one of
these nice new matchbox drives. Anyway, while it was working it was working
well.

___ _ __
  ((_))))...
From: sproven@cs.strath.ac.uk (Simon B Proven IE91)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:13:00 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <1992Sep11.105643.26352@siesoft.co.uk> tomc@siesoft.co.uk writes:
>But has no hope of satisfying forthhcoming ergonomic regulations (on the use
>of computers at work).

Why do you think there's an A4000 model then? :)

>  ((_))))... tomc@siesoft.co.uk, ma11tc@surrey.ac.uk, etc.

mad@bike
From: mark@acorn.co.uk (Mark Taunton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: From inside the cathouse...
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:10:44 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, UK

In article <2hDXxzj021n@khantazi.welly.gen.nz> banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:

 [ about a posting concerned with rumours of a chip being developed for Acorn ]

>   Anyway for those who missed it, one of the advantages of having slightly
>brain dead news software :-), the posting was one about a supposed ARM2as
>(whatever that is meant to mean) with VIDC20 & IOC2 on one chunk of silicon.
>This aleged device was supposedely called lousie or something like that.
>Totally unsubstantiated and a rumor that is almost certainly best kept in
>the circular file...

I had to laugh at this. It clearly shows how stupid it is to put
credence on (and before that, to circulate) unsubstantiated rumours.
There really is nothing like having the truth to work with - if you
haven't got the facts, don't try to invent them!

What this rumour obviously derives from is an inaccurate description
of the ARM250.  This is the chip used in several of Acorn's recently
launched products (A3010, A3020, A4000).  It contains an ARM2aS cell
(a slightly modified version of the ARM2 processor core, implemented
in static logic so it can have its clock stopped without loss of
data), an IOC cell, a VIDC1 cell and a MEMC1a cell.  During
development it was refered to internally as LUE, (pronounced "Louie")
for reasons that I think I'd better leave to others to explain (if
anyone around here dares ;-).

The amusing part is how the spec for the chip has been blown up
through the rumour mill, so that instead of VIDC1 it now seems to have
VIDC20 as the video controller section, and instead of IOC there is
something new (which I have never heard of) called IOC2.  As Philip
says, definitely one for the round file....

>    Philip

Mark.
From: aoliver@acorn.co.uk (Ashley Oliver)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Interesting Alias
Date: 7 Sep 92 12:05:43 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <2Gyfi7j020n@khantazi.welly.gen.nz> banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz (Philip R. Banks) writes:

>aoliver@acorn.co.uk (Ashley Oliver) writes:
>
>[lots and lots removed.]
>
>> set alias$ln mklink %%0
>
>   This attracts my interest. Is this a proper linking system or is it in a
>manner similar to !Link?
>
Ah, sorry to disappoint. That's just the command line version of Brian
Brunswicks excellent !Links that provides Run-nable symbolic links.
A completely general solution to the problem of links
still remains to be developed for RISC OS.

(But when somebody does, I'll bite their hand off).




        -Ashley Oliver
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:Breac aig na h-uile fir-stiuiridh!!:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: smb@cs.nott.ac.uk (Simon Burrows)
Subject: Re: RISC OS 3.10
Organization: Nottingham University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 18:43:31 GMT

If you are running on an 8MHz ARM2 machine, I wouldn't advise that you
rush into upgrading to RISC OS 3.10. If possible, see it working on
somebody else's 8MHz ARM2 before taking the plunge, and make up your
mind whether the speed is acceptable for you or not.

Simon.
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: Archimedes Demo *Competition* [Any one interested?]
Keywords: euro,demo,acorn,archimedes,arm2,memc1a,memc1,vidc2,cheese,beer,women
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:30:21 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <u894776.715909357@bruny> u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:
>So if you have any questions [such as what is a demo?], or suggestions
>mail me *now*.  Ideally we want a best demo of '92 sort of competition.

Say, you wouldn't prefer putting those talents to good use would you,
like producing an ultra-fast arm backprop neural net system?  I'm
sure some of the software technology for things like the game of Life
could be adapted...  Pretty little pictures of thoughts flashing from
neuron to neuron...?

G
--
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Interesting Alias (was Re: OS differences and improvements)
From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz (Philip R. Banks)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 10:46:01 +1200
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: My Arc.

aoliver@acorn.co.uk (Ashley Oliver) writes:

[lots and lots removed.]

> set alias$ln mklink %%0

   This attracts my interest. Is this a proper linking system or is it in a
manner similar to !Link?

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks  Syntax: mail < banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >            @@@@@/|
                                                                        @@@@/#|
The Trojan Signature Virus :-                                           @@@/##|
Hi there! I am an anti signature virus utility. Copy me into your       @@/---|
signature to use me!                                                    @/    |
From: csellers@acorn.co.uk (Carl Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: A5000 NS
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:23:00 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In reply to ojg@crosfield.co.uk (oliver gunasekara) here are some of the
answers. 

> Is the Ethernet hardware on the A5000 NS on a podule, ie it uses a podule
> expansion slot? 

Yes it does use a podule slot.

> Does the A5000 NS come with any software to drive ethernet (TCP/IP or AUN)? 

It is supplied with a ROM which contains support for AUN and the driver for
the ethernet card. There is a configure option which allows you to load just
the ethernet device driver or the ethernet device driver and the AUN
software. If you need to access TCP/IP then you will need to combine
elements of Acorns TCP/IP suite so that you can access NFS.

> Does RISC OS 3.1 !Config surport ethernet?

AUN looks like Econet. It has been designed so that all the Econet
management and user skills are directly transferable. The same icon is
now used for either network. The user has absolutly no idea which
physical network type they are using. Its just that the Ethernet
will be faster. The network support provided by !Configure in RISC OS 3.10
is therefore still valid.

--Carl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: ajdh@bnr.co.uk (Andrew J D Hurley)
Subject: Re: OS differences and improvements
Followup-To: comp.sys.acorn.advocacy
Organization: BNR Europe Limited, Harlow, GB
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:50:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.085444.22813@rtf.bt.co.uk> duplain@rtf.bt.co.uk (Andy Duplain) writes:
>	Anyway this thread's getting a bit dull.  Lets bury the hatchet and
>	just say that all operating systems have good and bad points (expect
>	for MS-DOS which just has bad points :-).

I'll second that, all of it. While on the subject of boring threads there
are an awful lot at the moment on csa, most of which should be moved to
advocacy or tech - it's hardly suprising there's not much traffic on
these, everyone (exaggeration) is just posting to csa!

I have set the Followup-To line to advocacy, others may like to do similar.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew J D Hurley ,   ><>         |  Email:   A.J.D.Hurley@bnr.co.uk
                                  |   or      Andrew.Hurley.EG40@bnr.ca
BNR Europe Ltd., London Road,     |  route:   uunet!ukc!bnr!ajdh
Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK.       |  Phone:   +44 279 402535
From: djhr4@crosfield.co.uk (david redman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: RISCOS 3.10 installation
Date: 11 Sep 92 07:40:21 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

Some news about RISCOS 3.10.
----------------------------

If you don't have an A310 with and atomwide 4Mb card skip this section..

	First:	remove all the hardware you so carefully fitted :)
		cut the tracks between lk12 pins 1,2 and 3,4
		install a pair of jumpers
		set jumpers to 1,3 and 2,4
		re-install 4Mb board and set ll1,2 to the EAST position
		(basically move them to the other side of where they are now)
		re-install all hardware

	Power ON:
		At this stage 2 things can happen.
		1. The screen flashes red  then blue  and  then the  floppy
		   lights flash - This is not good so power off and check
		   link 12 is the correct way around. Fix it and retry. :)
		2. The screen flashes and the Acorn RISCOS 3.10 box appears
		   This is good. Now play away..

My first impressions:
---------------------

First the good news:

	1. I like the new way it works.
	2. I didn't notice the speed difference ARM2/3.
	3. I like the multitasking filer..
	4. I like the apps being in ROM
	5. I like some of the new Apps on discs 1,2

Now the bad news:

	1. I didn't like loosing the ability to boot RISCiX... :(
	   And if anyone at Acorn would like to tell me how to stop
	   getting: "unknown machine type" errors I would be VERY grateful.

	2. I spent a long while deciding what to do about lk12 before taking
	   the plunge and cutting the links.. I would have been much happier
	   if Acorn had said that the 4Mb ROMS are JEDEC or not compatible
	   and it would have saved a great deal of worry.

For the record:

My machine is:

	. A310
	+ 4Mb Atomwide memory expansion
	+ Watford ARM3 (27.2Mhz)
	+ Acorn SCSI (SCSIFS 0.22) + 330Mb Micropolis drive + 147Mb Fujitsu
	+ Technomatic ST506 controller + 40Mb Seagate thingy
	+ Taxan 775.


Any  help about the  RISCiX problem  before I downgrade (and  return RISCOS
3.10)  would  be  appreciated otherwise: bye bye multitasking filer (sniff)
bye bye apps in ROM :(

dave.

##############################################################################
# David Redman,                      #  e-mail :     djhr@crosfield.co.uk    #
# Software Engineer,                 #         or   djhr4@crosfield.co.uk    # 
# Crosfield Electronics Ltd,         #                                       #
# Three Cherry Trees Lane,           #  Phone: 0442 230000  ext 4066         #
# Hemel Hempstead, Herts.            #                                       #
# United Kingdom                     #                                       #
##############################################################################
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
From: cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: A3010 views
Reply-To: cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:22:31 GMT


Hi All,

	I posted my (disappointed views) on the new A3010 a while back
expecting some response which could perhaps turn my view somewhat... it
didn't happen though: anyone want to give their views on what they think
of the A3010, how it matches up to the competition and whether they
think it will take off?

	I have an Amiga 500Plus w/ 2Meg ChipRAM OS2.04 and 100Mb HD at
the mo and am waiting for new `AA' chipset machines to arrive, HOWEVER
whilst I wait and watch I keep note of new changes... like /|\ Falcon030
and Acorn A3010... so what do you reckon?

	FWIW - I have seen A310s and such in action and haven't been
"stunned" as I expected. I did like the A5000 I played with a while back
in Heelas store in Reading, but again I got the feeling that if I bought
that I might as well buy an Amiga 3000/25MHz w/ 50Mb HD 2Mb for 1300.

	BTW - if this isn't the right group, is there another for
general discussion, (comp.sys.acorn.misc type thing?)

								- JIM CAD*
From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz (Philip R. Banks)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn
Subject: Re: From inside the cathouse...
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:40:09 +1200
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: My Arc.

steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:

> I don't think it's someone at Berkeley, but someone abusing Berkeley's
> email to news gateway.  It could be very hard to track the person down
> (though it could presumably be done by the people running the
> service).

   That is indeed a good point and for those Berkley people reading I intend
no slurr on your facility. However in my experience with people doing this
sort of thing they usually are either a user of the system they are abusing
or they have used the system in the past.

   Anyway for those who missed it, one of the advantages of having slightly
brain dead news software :-), the posting was one about a supposed ARM2as
(whatever that is meant to mean) with VIDC20 & IOC2 on one chunk of silicon.
This aleged device was supposedely called lousie or something like that.
Totally unsubstantiated and a rumor that is almost certainly best kept in
the circular file...

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks  Syntax: mail < banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >            @@@@@/|
                                                                        @@@@/#|
                                                                        @@@/##|
What price the crown of a king on his throne, when you are chained in   @@/---|
the dark all alone? ---A.P.P.                                           @/    |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn