HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macgyver@turtle.cis.ohio-state.edu (MacGyver)
Subject: Re: "Wow, You're a Writer!"
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 14:18:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.042923.11749@nuscc.nus.sg> swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr)) writes:
>While anyone can certainly plunk a guitar string and call it making music, 
>there are huge numbers of people who do not have the inherent ability to
>either entertain others with these sounds or support themselves financially 
>through music (such as myself). No amount of tuition, practice or whatever 
>will change that fact--although I may personally enjoy it and believe that I 
>make "music". What I choose to call myself-- a musician, a hobbyist or
>whatever is an individual choice.

That's not true. With enough training, while you may not be able to
come up with new sounds, you can certainly entertain others by playing
existing music. 

>It is my sincere belief that just as some people are tone deaf, others
>are deaf to dialogue, plot, characterization or basic structure of
>writing (of any kind) despite having the mechanics of reading and
>writing. Such people may call themselves writers (and why not?) or
>anything else, but that does not mean that they have the capacity to
>entertain others with their activities or produce something that others
>(publishers or readers) will buy.

Writers, like any other profession, have good writers, average writers,
bad writers, etc etc etc. Telling people that you are a writer doesn't
imply that you are a GOOD writer, nor does it imply you have the
capacity to enterain others with their writing. 

>On reflection, I think the statement I quoted- "Anyone can write...it's
>just that some of us choose not to..." actually reflects a kind of
>jealosy or bitterness amongst some publishing staff---many of whom
>are frustrated writers or writers who have temporarily or permanently
>stopped writing.

Perhaps so, people like that certainly exist. Again, perhaps they are
saying that anyone can writer average stuff, or some of the trash in the
slush pile which the publisher gets everyday. 


-- 
Wilson MacGyver                      |"I do like a road, because you can be 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | always wondering what is at the end
=====================================| of it."
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================
From: bergen@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: desktop publishing?
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:37:07 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

In article <cass8806.230@elan.glassboro.edu>, cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
> 	is there a desktop publishing discussion on the internet anywhere?
> i've looked, but haven't found one, though i figure there MUST be one around.
> i've just started using aldus pagemaker and -- of course -- am having 
> problems....blugh.
> 
Not all nodes carry the same groups, but here we have a group:
             bit.listserv.pagemakr
It isn't as active as it could/should be, but if you're new to DTP you
will find it helpful.  You did not say if you were using a MAC or PC.  The
group is heavily MAC-oriented, but worth looking into.  Good luck.

Oh, if you want THE best book, look at _Desktop Publishing by Design_
(second edition) by Ronnie Shushan and Don Wright.  There are two versions,
one for Ventura and one for Pagemaker.  The Pagemaker version is for both
Mac and PC users.  It has good coverage of DTP design and theory as well as
lots of Pagemaker how-to info.  It also has some good makeover examples.

Good luck!
Janie Bergen at the University of North Texas
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: bergen@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: looking for a book
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:21:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.172808.9534@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, doreen@cse.fau.edu (Doreen Worthy) writes:
> 
>   There is a book at there somewhere called something like
>  "Marketplace for Writers" that has the critera for publishing
>   in many types of journals, etc.  Is there anyone out there that
>   knows the name of this book?  If so, would you mail the information
>   to me ASAP?  
> 
>   doreen@tuna.cse.fau.edu

Doreen, start with your local public library!  The reference librarians are
probably the most under-utilized resource for writers.  You may be looking
for "Literary Marketplace" - a very big and expensive yearly guide.  Also
check "Writer's Handbook" and "Writer's Market" guides.  These are also
published yearly.  They are also less expensive and are offered by many
book clubs at a reduced price.
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Proposal for Crawford Killian
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:12:19 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

John Fisher kindly suggests that a nonfiction book might emerge from this
discussion...if I were Stephen King, sure. Anyway, I'll be content just to get
another novel or two out of the process.

This, by the way, is an occupational hazard: Not writing a novel, or writing a
novel and not selling it, becomes very unpleasant. What are you supposed to
*do* with your evenings, watch TV? Gack...
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Research in Fiction
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 23:09:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>      Hal, my barefoot child, if that's the only technical objection 
> you've brought to STNG, you've missed a hell of a lot yourself. I've 
> got news for you: If two or more ships meet in space after travelling 
> interstellar distances, they will not, in all likelyhood, be 
> vertically and horizontally oriented alike. Also, I doubt that the 

Sure they will.  Spacefaring races will establish a convention that ships
travel oriented a certain way with respect to galactic north, that ships
going toward the core have the right of way (for example), and things like
that.  Such conventions will include how they orient when they meet, so
that there will be no embarrassing moments (e.g., the Ambassador beams
over and is upside down...).

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: kmrobert@nyx.cs.du.edu (K.M.Roberts)
Subject: Re: writing insecurities
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:05:12 GMT

	Self Doubt? I don't think there is a writer who is not as published
as they want/think they should be who hasn't experienced it!

	I doubt myself before I even sit down to write....
	I doubt myself while I am actually writing it...
	I doubt myself once I have a finished project...

It doesn't matter how many people tell me they love the story... or that I've
got talent... or any other encouraging statement!

but I don't mind....Self doubt is what keeps me striving to be better...

and anything that does that is needed/wanted by me!


--
kmr...                                      Fiction is created by writers
kmrobert@nyx.cs.du.edu                      Lies are concocted by liars
"I have engaged the                         Fiction is a string of lies
Theoretical Weasel!"                        I am a liar...
Xref: sparky misc.writing:2584 rec.photo:14311 soc.net-people:1044
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Newsgroups: misc.writing,rec.photo,soc.net-people
Subject: Looking for Christine Merideth Bridges
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:52:00 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA


  In the mid-80's, I knew a woman named Christine Merideth Bridges.
She was hanging around Dartmouth doing theatre. She was also writing
for various women's magazines and she may have been doing some
modelling in NYC. (This hopefully explains the weird cross posting.)
I'd really like to get in touch with her again if possible. Even
a pointer to where I might be able to start looking would be appreciated.
(Like, "I went to school with her in 11th grade at .....").

  If you do happen to know her, you might give her the following
piece of prose that she once wrote as a reminder....

"'Twas in misty morning when that ship came in, the sort you would associate
with a typical dreary Monday. True, he was back, but my heart dragged at the
thought of seeing him again. I had thought of leaving a message with some
excuse, but I knew it would have been insubstantial. Damn.
 To meet someone yu ohasn't seen in over a decade, and to know that they
expect of you  precisely what you were then in insane. Yet he did, saying in
his letter he would always remember the years we spent, and the exhuberance
with which I faced life. How could he expect this of me now?"

  Thanks very much, in advance.

-David
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Looking it up (was:  misspelled thread :))
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:34:59 GMT

Rheal Nadeau:
>I find that, in general, people just don't know how to look things up. ...
>Amazing what you can find in a standard dictionary - have you leafed
>through yours to find out all the types of information it offers?

My sisters used to tease me unmercifully for reading the dictionary on
a warm summer day.  They missed some wonderful essays on etymology --
their loss.

>So in brief - look it up, folks.  Remember, getting there is half
>the fun!

Hear, hear.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "It's an act of faith to be a writer in a postliterate world." 
                 --Rita Mae Brown
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
Subject: Articles Sought for NeXT Magazine
Reply-To: zac@dolphin.com
Organization: Dolphin Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:51:04 GMT

BANGup Magazine (An Excellent NeXT Magazine) Seeks Authors

We are rapidly approaching the publication deadline for the October issue  
of BANGup Magazine, and we need more articles!  If you are interested in  
writing about NeXT, whether the topic be fiction or fact, experience or  
desire, please get in touch with us!

Send us you postal address, electronic mail address, voice and fax  
telephone numbers (if you don't have one of these, don't worry).  We are  
looking for ideas, articles, and authors who wish to contribute.  Include  
what it is you would like to do for the magazine, and we'll get in touch  
with you right away!

	Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
	Editor in Chief, BANGup Magazine
	900 High School Way, Number 2106
	Mountain View, CA 94041
	415.966.8919
-- 
 Zacharias J. Beckman - Dolphin Software - zac@dolphin.com (NeXTMail welcome!)
         900 High School Way - Suite 2106 - Mountain View - CA - 94041
 To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy... and dull
 fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. -- R. A. Heinlen
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: National Writers Union
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:38:01 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Maureen (aka Jane) asks about the National Writers'Union. If she means the one
in Canada, I can advise her to avoid it. I belonged for several years, but gave
up when it got its collective knickers in a twist about "cultural
appropriation" and who has the right to write stories about whom...this was
several years before the issue hit the Canadian media. I decided I had better
things to do and quit. Life for writers is tough enough without this kind of
self-induced silliness.
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: writing insecurities
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:42:49 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

If you're having trouble with your editor, just remember that an "editor" in
ancient Rome was the financial sponsor of a gladiatorial combat. The editorial
fondness for chopping, slashing and turning thumbs down has survived intact.
Too bad for us gladiators...:)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: aardvark@dragon (Pam Williams)
Subject: Re: Sharediction.... a novel idea
Organization: University of Lowell Computer Science, Lowell MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:28:41 GMT

Well we know that your "shareware novel-over-the-Net" concept will get
someone fame and notoriety -- Elf Sternberg is a household name on more than a few newsgroups I can think of... (Not to pick on Elf -- I honestly LIKE his writing a lot but I think you can see what I'm getting at here)

Then again Elf doesn't exploit the shareware concept on the Net. My guess is
 that in order to make the shareware novel idea work an author would have to puta lot of quality fiction or generally well-lauded non-fiction out on the Net
before s/he would be able to get a decent response from requests for shareware
type arrangements.

*** Just a few thoughts from P.S. Williams: a person who is limping along with
a keyboard with a broken comma key and a text editor with no word wrap feature.

-- 
Pamela S. Williams                         85 Gershom Ave. #3
a.k.a. Wonder Aardvark                     Lowell, Ma 01854
aardvark@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu            (508)453-1753
WWIVNet: St. Zolfo the Redeemed for Valuable Cash Prizes (64@5806)
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Tim Lynch's Imaginary Friend)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Publishing
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:17:58 GMT
Organization: Leapers For a Better Yesterday

ebupaf@ebu.ericsson.se writes:
>I have finished my autobiography, 

I'm sorry to hear that.  Should we send flowers, or would you prefer a
contribution to your favorite charity? :)

(Sorry...just being obnoxious.)

-- 
--Andrew Hackard                            Keisha J. Gray Memorial .sig:
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu            "Should old acquaintance be forgot...nah."

I'm not UT.           Bert 'n' Ernie '92: We have lots of practice at spelling.
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ggray@world.std.com (Gary P Gray)
Subject: Re: "Wow! You're a writer?"
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:08:26 GMT

It is written in <BsvK6y.341@unx.sas.com> that saslpo@stevens.unx.sas.com (Len Olszewski) said:
>
>On the other hand, when I tell people I'm a writer, and elaborate by 
>explaining that I write manuals for computer software, nobody ever tells 
>me they liked what I've written. In fact, very few people have ever read 
>what I've written, and they still get mad at *me* for bad computer 
>manuals that OTHER people have written. Many of them begin to berate me, 
>though I never let that go very far before responding in my own defense.

Ahh yes, there were times when I was sitting in the computer lab at school
when there were CS majors mumbling about how crummy this or that manual was
(very thick, very large Motif manuals for example) looking for someone to
blame, and possibly hurl the useless hunk of printed matter at... I would
just sorta keep quiet and not mention I was a tech writing major...

But of course, I have spent my own fair share of time swearing at poorly
documented software. Doubly so, since if I had written it *I* would have
gotten it right (or at least I keep telling myself that.)

Usually, however, the people I have talked to don't seem to blame me, but
hope that I would be able do a better job than the "bozos" who had written
the others. 

An interesting phenomina I have seen is that people seem to appreciate a
writer more for doing something that he/she didn't have to do. I wrote a
manual some time back for a Multi user role playing game that runs on the
net (hopelessly in need of revision... someday).  I found that a *lot* of
people, on seeing me online in these games, would thank me for writing it...
much more than they would thank the programmers who wrote the actual code,
it seems. Strange...  I guess when they don't expect clear documentation and
get it, the really appreciate it.

Oh well, it's time for the nose to meet the grindstone. One more day in the
fight against poor documentation...
-- 
 ---- WARNING!!! The above opinions may be HAZARDOUS or FATAL if swallowed ----
			Gary Gray -- ggray@world.std.com
               ?sdrawkcab gnihtyreve tog ev'uoy ekil leef reve

Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: James Waters <jwaters@uafsysb.uark.edu>
Subject: Newsletter Editors
X-Xxdate: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:29:40 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas - Fayetteville
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:27:18 GMT

Hello,

Are there any newletter editors, copy editors, layout design editors
reading this group?

I'm copy editor of our campus computing newsletter titled "ARKive."  We
try to publish a newsletter twice a semester and once in the summer. 
Even so, other projects tend to get in the way.  I'm curious to know what
type of publishing schedule other newletter editors use.

What are some of the issues in computing that you write about.  Do you
focus heavily on the Internet?  What kind of creative touches do you add
to your newsletter?  Do you publish on-line as well?

If there any other computing newletter staff members in the Usenet world,
I'd love to get in touch and share some ideas.

Thanks,
--
James W. Waters________________________
ARKive Copy Editor/ Computing Services  
Fayetteville, Arkansas                                       
jwaters@uafsysb.uark.edu                                
_______________________________________
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: pollard@milton.u.washington.edu (Ken Pollard)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Sequels (was Re: Work in progress)
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:42:36 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <78070@ut-emx.uucp> andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Some call me...Drew) writes:
>
>Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>>About a week ago, my editor at Del Rey told me they had turned down a proposal
>>I'd sent them for a science-fiction novel, but they would be interest in a
>>possible sequel to my last novel, a fantasy called Greenmagic.
>
>Is this becoming more of a trend in novels?  I would have thought that
>editors would be far more excited to see a new idea explored, rather than
>returning to the same old theme. (This isn't a flame ... 

Becoming more of a trend?  Perhaps, but it is an old trend.  My initial 
thought was of James Fenimore Cooper's Leatherstocking series.  One
can go back further, to the Illiad and the Oddessy.

And any television series (Star Trek, Cheers, or Northern Exposure,
for example) can be accused of the same trend -- after all, they
use the same characters.

People like certain characters.  If they like the characters enough,
they buy the book (or watch the show & commercials).  It seems only
natural that publishers, and writers, would tend to work on what sells,
to work on what pleases their audience, no matter how big or small.  Don't
we all tend to write a bit more when our work is praised?

Now if the second book is truly a re-hash, then people will tend to look
for other authors.  If, however, it is a new story, but with the same
characters, what's the harm?  They're merely old friends in new situations,
or facing new problems.


Ken Pollard, Seattle
pollard@u.washington.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:17:35 EDT
From: <PXF3@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Correspondence Courses for Writers - Useful or Useless

Penn State offers several correspondence courses in writing, grammar, and
literature.  I'm sure other universities offer similar programs, but I'm
familiar with Penn State's program because I teach Intro. to Article
Writing for them.

You can get a catalog from Penn State's Department of Independent Learning
by calling (800) 252-3592 if you are in Pennsylvania, and (800) 458-3617
from the rest of the US.  Outside the US, write to Penn State University,
Department of Independent Learning, 126 Mitchell Building, University Park,
PA 16802-3693.

Or if you have questions, feel free to e-mail me.

I don't mean for this to be a blatant ad for the program.  It's just an
option to commercial correspondence courses that people might want to look
into.


--
Paula Ford   | Internet: pxf3@psuvm.psu.edu  | PO Box 674
             | Bitnet:   pxf3@psuvm          | Hollidaysburg, PA 16648
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended
up where I needed to be.  --Dirk Gently
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: "Wow! You're a writer?"
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:48:36 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

My daily requirement of humility was administered one day by the
Critter Sitter -- the person who waters the plants and feeds the 
pets while you're traveling.  Making small talk after negotiating
how often the catbox ought to be cleaned, she said that she was
studying to be a programmer.  Then she asked me what I did.

"I write user manuals."

"Ooh! Yuck!" 

Joe
"The pallid pimp of the dead-line/The enervate of the pen" --Robert Service
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Strunk and White
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:58:00 GMT

jim@thinkage.on.ca (James Alan Gardner) writes:
>I would suggest having a look at "Style" by Frank Lucas.  

Which reminds me:  not to put down Jim's recommendation -- I've never seen
Lucas's book -- but the best style book *I've* ever seen is Joe Williams's
book, also called _Style_.

Williams is in charge of the course at the University of Chicago known
formally as "Academic and Professional Writing", but universally as the 
"Little Red Schoolhouse."  If you can't take the course, read the book.
Its emphasis is not on fiction writing, but it'll help make your writing
clearer, no matter how good you were when you began.

I just checked our library catalogue for citations, and I honestly don't
know which of these two I own.  I suppose the 1990 book may be a condensed/
updated version of the '85 second edition, with a new publisher and subtitle.
(Numbers at the upper left are Library of Congress numbering.)

  PE1421    Williams, Joseph M.
  .W72      Style : toward clarity and grace / Joseph M. Williams ; with two
  1990        chapters coauthored by Gregory G. Colomb. Chicago : University
              of Chicago Press, 1990.
            xvii, 208 p. ; 23 cm.
            Series: Chicago guides to writing, editing, and publishing
            Includes bibliographical references and index.
            ISBN: 0-226-89914-4 (alk. paper)
  
  PE1421    Williams, Joseph M.
  .W72      Style : ten lessons in clarity & grace / Joseph M. Williams. 2nd
  1985        ed. Glenview, Ill. : Scott, Foresman, c1985.
            251 p. ; 21 cm.
            Includes index.
            ISBN: 0-673-18058-1 (pbk.) :


--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher  [with a five-line .signature for the occasion]
  "I'm spread-eagled on my ergonomic multi-purpose worktable.  Tear away my
   inconsistent rhetoric.  Strip me of my irrelevant hyperbole.  ...cleanse
   the Augean Stables of my flawed intellect with your thunderous enema of
   reason!" --Steve Connelly (stevec@bu-pub.bu.edu)