HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Ripstop Sources
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:24:10 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


My experiences with ripstop sources are varied.

I usually buy ripstop at 4pounds per metre (41" width)
with a 5% Kite Society discount therefore 3.80 per metre.
This is Carrington Novare by the way.

I have bought "seconds" quality material at as little as
2 pounds per metre and have had no problems with it.

Recently I've set my sights on larger kites and thought I'd
try some alternative sources.

I tried several sailmakers whom I must admit were not exactly
overly-enthusiastic about selling me the stuff. Nevertheless
I managed to find a source at 3 pounds per metre but only for 
red white and blue. They were simply not going to sell me
any other colours because they had small amounts and they use it 
principally for repairs.

Another sailmaker offered me the stuff at 6 pounds per metre!!

One final point... make sure you get your measure of cloth...
lousy cutting by a very moody shop assistant left me with a piece
of cloth useless for its intended function because of a 
wavy-line cut .This left the cloth one or two cms short
or over either side of the full metre line. (hope this makes
sense). This was totally infuriating and I had to cover the wife's
ears whilst I told my living-room what I thought about it!!


Regards,

Clive
From: lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:37:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

  I'm resparing a kite for a friend and I need some advice on the
best way to mate plastic arrow nocks to graphite spars(or a good
way to mate plastic to graphite period...). Also...out of curiosity,
what is a good way to bond graphite to graphite(if there is one, that is).

 Thanks,
   Alex Rosser
   lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennett-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Applique with Ripstop?
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:07:32 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories

I've appliqued ripstop successfully - I think you have
to be patient and careful carrying the material between
your cutting-out/assembling area and your sewing machine.

I can't quite afford to use dry mount sprays yet so I use good
old-fashioned sellotape which can be removed after the applique.
Funnily enough cheap substitutes are better in this respect 'cos they
tend to be less adhesive and are easier to get off afterwards.

The only problem here is that this means that only the boundary of the 
applique pieceis attached to the main cloth which can lead to bubbling & 
uneven work- you have to be careful when moving the cloth under the needle.
 I would prefer dry mount 'cos it would tack down the whole surface thus 
eliminating the problem.

In terms of a Rokkaku I made one earlier this year and the problem for me
was the sheer bulk of cloth that had to be manoeuvre under the arm of the machine
rather than the applique itself.


Good luck!!


Clive D-T
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 08:07:41 GMT

In <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes:

>I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these
>days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to.
>
Do you mean it's non-elastic?

I don't use the "thick" (i.e. 3-4 mm) bungee cord, but thinner
about 2 mm diameter, but it is still elastic. Using two or three
loops makes it easy to adjust suitable tensioning.

Smooth Winds
Simo Salanne

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: north@fir.egr.msu.edu (George M North)
Subject: Re: Applique with Ripstop?
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:45:48 GMT

In article <10980@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk>, pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) writes:
|> Applique is not difficult. Generally what I do is 
|> 
|> (1) Cut out a shape I want to put on the kite surface
|> (2) Fix this onto the sail. I do this either by spraying the
|>     surfaces with water, or with spray mount (that spray on
|>     glue they use for mounting photographs on card).
|> (3) I then stitch the material to the sail
|> (4) Finally, I take a seam ripper with a "ball on the end". 
|>     They all have a "ball on the end". I then make a nick in
|>     the back of the surface and then insert the seam ripper,
|>     placing the "ball" against the seam, and zip around the
|>     seam.
|> (5) If you used spray mount, clean the surface. 
|> 
|> 
|> Easy .... but practice so that you have confidence.

For Step (2) I often just use clear tape. Works well with most kinds of ripstop.
It holds better than water and doesn't need to be cleaned like spray mount.
From: north@maple.egr.msu.edu (George M North)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Good stunters?
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:40:22 GMT
Distribution: rec.kites
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <MSKOGMO.92Nov15170242@dante.nmsu.edu>, mskogmo@nmsu.edu (SKOGMO) writes:
|> Hello, I am very interested in stunt kites.  Right now, I have a "Hot
|> Wings" or something like that.  It performs ok, but stunts like
|> tip-stands and true square turns are impossible as far as I can tell.
|> I have been looking at a Hawaiian Team Kite.  It is big, 8'2"X3'9" and
|> can be flown in moderate to heavy winds.  The neat thing is that it
|> can be converted to 4 line flying.  Right now, I want to stick with 2,
|> but I would like the option.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance,
|> 
|> Matt
|> mskogmo@dante.nmsu.edu

The Hawaiian Team Kite is a very nice Kite I my self have 2 and find them great
fun in high winds. However they were one of the first kites on the market and
design has come along way. If it is tricks you are looking for almost any kite that
has a bigger central keel (40 inch spine) will be much better suited to you. And any
duel line kite can be converted to quad line flying. But don't be mistaken about this
A duel line kite was designed for forward flight only and will NOT respond like a 
true quad line kite. Here are a list of kites that you may wan't to give some thought to

North Shore Radical		Top of The Line
Jacanna				Tori Tako
Team High Fly			High Fly Kite Co. (I think)
Skyburner			Skyburner Kites
Stinger 1000			Stinger Kites
Phantom				(Various makers)

Talk to your local dealer see what they have in stock and tell them what you wan't it 
to do. Also see if anyone in you area (local fly field) has one of these or whatever
kite you are interested in see what they have to say about them. you often get a better
review of a kite from someone who isn't trying to sell you one.

Happy Flying.
George.
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:50:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov21.005024.14641
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

In article <1992Nov20.080741.17012@nic.funet.fi> salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes:
>In <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes:
>
>>I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these
>>days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to.
>>
>Do you mean it's non-elastic?

Yes, it is non-elastic, or "no, it is not elastic". There are a few
kites here in the States that don't use elastic to attack the kite
sail to it's frame.

I could use elastic, and I might change back someday, but for now the
wing tips get non-elastic cords on most of my kites.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Rokkaku sparring
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:20:53 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park


Well, after all the useful responses I got to my flowform questions (thanks
again to everyone who posted and/or e-mailed), it's time for another one.

The other project I have in the works right now is a 5' rokkaku.  What
kind of spars would be best for this kite?  Fiberglass is the obvious choice
of material, but what size?

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: michaela@ramrod.lmt.mn.org (Michael Armstrong)
Subject: Re: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:19:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.140246.10428@news.stolaf.edu> kriesel@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Julie R Kriesel) writes:
>From: kriesel@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Julie R Kriesel)
>Subject: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:02:46 GMT


>Hi, everybody!  I am just getting into kiting (having bought my first
>kite from Into The Wind, a DC), and I am wondering if anybody knows of
>a good kite store in the Twin Cities metro area...that is, if there are
>even people from Minnesota posting here, I haven't noticed any...

>At any rate, if you can help me out, I would really appreciate it.

>Julie Kriesel

	There are a couple kite stores in the Twin Cities area.  One is 
called Color the Sky, in Anoka.  The other that I know of is Kite Site, in 
Coon Rapids.  Kite Site had a store front at Town Square in St. Paul, but I 
don't know if that still exists.  Otherwise, both outfits are run out of the 
owner's homes, from what I understand.  

Not only are there people flying in Minnesota, but there is at least one 
kite team, Perfect Chaos, that hails from here. 

--MichaelA
From: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennett-Thorpe)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: KITE POWERED BOAT
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:13:10 GMT
Reply-To: cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories


I have the Green's (UK) catalogue which has details and photos of
some form of record attempt across the English Channel using a type

of twin-hulled boat (I know sweet f.a. about boats!) and a Green's
Stratascoop4 which is a medium-sized parafoil.

I'll try and post the technical details tomorrow.


Regards

Clive
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: bibid@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: Done Over
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:35:54 GMT

	I'm after peoples comments, either good or bad, on the following
topic.

	I've been retailing kites from two Australian manufactures mainly
at local markets and by flying in parks (I do not have a shop).  Because
I do not have overheads such as rent, electricity, etc. I can afford to
sell kites below RRP.  

For example:

	Kite x (3m)     -     RRP = $A 269  ~$US 384
		         My Price = $A 230  ~$US 329

	150lb Spectra & Handles -  RRP = $A 80  ~$US 115
		              My price = $A 60  ~$US 85

	Even at these prices I do not turn over a lot of stock as I 
effectively work only one day a week.  My local competition has 
complained to one manufacturer who will no longer supply to me.  I have 
not spoken to the other manufacturer but I'm under the impression that 
the story is the same.  This effectively cuts me out of the industry.

Questions:
	1)  How do the above prices compare with the US and UK.  The above
kite has been used to win a number of Australian competitions.  
Construction = 3/4 oz ripstop, K-75 spars, & glass form pro sports carbon
composite spine.
	2)  In general Australia works on 100% markup on wholesale plus 
20% (of wholesale) sales tax.  Is this the same in other countries.
	3)  If I cannot puruade the manufactures to change their minds, 
(I'm prepared to sell at RRP), my only option is to import if I'm to
stay in the industry.  Can anyone help.

	Your comments and options, either positive or negative, will be
greatly appriciated.

BRUCE DONALDSON					COAD'S CANDLES & KITES
BIBIB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
_
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Re: FlowForm
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:25:38 GMT

In <10925@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) writes:


>                         FLOW FORM (Enlargement)

... a lot of good text deleted...

>Get me out of here. Look what you've done to me.

Pat, you just sold me a new project! Look what you've done to me:-)

Simo
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Date: 22 Nov 92 05:34:36 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Nov20.080741.17012@nic.funet.fi> salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes:
>In <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes:
>
>>I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these
>>days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to.
>>
>Do you mean it's non-elastic?

Marty's already answered you with a "yes, it's non-elastic," but he didn't
really clarify how this is done (at least on the kites I've seen).  

A length of line (kevlar or otherwise) is sewn onto the leading edge, extending
quite far up the edge.  It is done with plenty of line leftover at the bottom.
This bottom line is then pulled tight and wrapped/fastened in one way or 
another around the bottom of the spar.  I think on of the big advantages is
that the stress is distributed much better along the leading edge instead of
concentrated on that little hole you've made (and probably pounded a grommet
into) at the very bottom.

As far as I know, the JordanAir Pro was the first kite to use this idea, though
I could be wrong.  Dean Jordan doesn't use nocks on the Advantage Pro; he 
uses nylon wire ties stuck into the end of the spar, putting the line through 
the tie and then running some half hitches to further fasten the line.  
An end-cap is then pushed over it.  The AFC Pro has the line wrapped around
a nock, again with an endcap over it.

The original Tracer used a different technique, which Skyward called "active
frame tensioning."  The kite has a line sewn into the trailing edge; the loose
end of the line is then tied into a loop and slipped over an arrow nock.  The
biggest problem with this is that as the sail stretches, the knots will have
to be re-tied.  This isn't _too_ big a deal; the last time I had to adjust
my Tracer was in August.  

The Tracer uses 300 pound unsleeved spectra; I've never heard of it breaking.
I believe the Pro uses kevlar, which is far more convenient for the half-hitch
wrapping/fastening technique because it's less slippery.

The latest version of the Tracer (and the version that will be manufactured
and marketed by Skynasaur) still has the line in the trailing edge, but also
has a bungee in the traditional spot.  I've no idea what this is supposed
to do for the kite.

Jeff





-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: spaceman@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
Date: 23 Nov 92 12:29:10 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov23.042036.8123@das.harvard.edu>, mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes:
> Rather than continually ask questions like, "are there any kite shops
> in XXX?", or, "are there fliers in XXX?", let me suggest joining the
> American Kitefliers Association. One of the benefits of joining the
> AKA is a membership list. The list also has "member merchants". Member
> merchants give 10% discounts. 

Marty,
I would like to say that your idea is great, but unless you post this
every 2 weeks people will still ask those questions.  I personally don't find
the questions that irritating-Like you said, kite flyers are friendly people-
Hell, I don't mind answering them if I know what a good shop in XXX is-
besides, for me, using the computer for info exchange is a lot cheaper 
(in fact it is free) than calling someone in XXX.

I also recommend becomming an AKA member- 

Well, now that I said that:
1. I know a couple of great places in Kansas to fly
2. I know a great shop here in Kansas
3. I am heading off to Arkansas for T-giving- hope to meet some kiters there.

Paul
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
>   mss@das.harvard.edu		          26 Green Street
>   phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 08:22:00 GMT

In <1eed2uINN5de@gap.caltech.edu> lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes:

>  I'm resparing a kite for a friend and I need some advice on the
>best way to mate plastic arrow nocks to graphite spars(or a good
>way to mate plastic to graphite period...).

Think about NOT using arrow nocks at all. There are in the market
end caps, which are made for kiting purposes - instead of archery.

I like them more, one reason is that you don't glue them on spar,
which makes replacement easier, faster.

Smooth Winds
Simo Salanne
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Good stunters?
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:35:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov19.183554.22402
Distribution: rec.kites
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

There are dozens of stunt kites. Each has a slightly different
personality. Whether a kite flies well or not is highly subjective and
depends on the flier and the wind.

My advice is that you should try to find some other kite enthusiasts,
seek their opinions and try to test fly the kites that you are
considering.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Re: designs
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:42:13 GMT

In <1992Nov20.153728.16553@e2big.mko.dec.com> e_splett@kaofs.enet.dec.com (Evan Splett - Ottawa) writes:

>The only book in English with more than 1 stunt kite plan is the following :

>------
>Stunt Kites to Make and Fly,
>by Servaas van der Horst and Nop Velthuizen.
>ISBN 90-6868-052-8
>THOTH Publishers, P.C. Hooftstraat 57-1, 1071 BN Amsterdam,
>the Netherlands.

There is another with more than 1 stunt kite plan ( Hawaiian,
Spinoff, Speedwind, Silent Knite, Vison II, Japanese Acrobatic
Reach-sky kite, Benson's Scorcher 2):

	Ron Moulton and Pat LLoyd,
	Kites, A Practical Handbook
	ISBN  1 85486 050 X
	Argus Books, England

It's nice all around book on kiting, having chapters on
Rokkaku fighting, Teddy Bear Parachuting, etc...

They also reprinted "Details of the Hadzicki patent 4,892,272".
(i.e. Revolution).

But I am sure, that following the plans in the dutch book
will make better kites. There are Hawaiian, Spinoff and
Speedwing, too.

Smooth Winds
Simo Salanne

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: m_white@biggles.demon.co.uk (Malcolm White)
Subject: ripstop source 
Distribution: world
Organization: Hot Ice Limited
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:37:23 +0000
From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:31:07 GMT
Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications

I've changed my mind about nocks over time. In the beginning I used
nocks because they were the easiest way to do things. I've used end
caps recenntly since I could get them inexpensively. I've changed back
to nocks.

I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these
days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to.
After the cord is tied in place, I slip a plastic end cap over the
nock.

I use the one piece nocks that just fit over the end. You don't need
to glue these in place, friction will hold them in place. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Marty Sasaki			  Sasaki Kite Fabrications		
  mss@das.harvard.edu		  26 Green Street
  phone:  617-522-8546		  Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Subject: Hawaiian Stunt Kites
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:49:04 GMT

Hello!

I'm a novice to the world of kites, and have been lurking here for about 3 
weeks now. My mail server crashed while I was posting this, so I will try 
again...

Based on a recommendation here, I bought the book Kiteworks. I have been 
flying a peter powell stunt kite for a year or so and have enjoyed it very 
much. (It is your standard diamond shape with a long (80ft?) platic tube for 
a tail.)

I am looking now at getting another kite for some variety. I am interested 
in the Hawaiian stunt kites in the book. Are they the same thing as their 
Turbo stunt kite? they look similar but not the same. 

So.. a few questions for you experts..

First, Are they the same thing? Second, what should I expect to pay for a 
the real thing. Third, what about kits and prices for building one?

Mahalo!
Wes

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Novell, Inc

Internet: wvoss@novell.com
Fax: 801-342-1211

Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, and no one else's;
            No one in their right mind would share them...
___________________________________________________________
From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Rip-Stop Prices
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:06:34 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Judging from Clive's recent comments about rip-stop pricing, it
seems to me that we have it pretty good in the States as far as pricing
is concerned. Not knowing what the current exchange rate is, but if you
take a meter (which is a little more than a yard) at 3-4 pounds per meter
and an exchange rate of about $2 per pound...well you see what I'm
getting at as you can get rip-stop a lot less expensive (especially if
buying in bulk).

Just thought I'd through in my 2 cents worth.

Later!


-- 

The Mad Hata  

"Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!"
From: kriesel@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Julie R Kriesel)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: kite shop in Twin Cities area?
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:02:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN


Hi, everybody!  I am just getting into kiting (having bought my first
kite from Into The Wind, a DC), and I am wondering if anybody knows of
a good kite store in the Twin Cities metro area...that is, if there are
even people from Minnesota posting here, I haven't noticed any...

At any rate, if you can help me out, I would really appreciate it.

Julie Kriesel
Newsgroups: rec.kites