HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: freja@cl.bull.fr (Etienne Frejaville)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Complete Set of LvB Piano Sonatas
Keywords: Arrau, Beethoven
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:03:45 GMT
Reply-To: freja@cl.bull.fr (Etienne Frejaville)
Organization: BULL S.A

In article <1992Jul23.113444.18001@philabs.philips.com>, kpl@philabs.philips.com (K P Lee) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Jul22.144109.1967@brandonu.ca>, hanly@brandonu.ca writes:
|> |> There is also a complete set of the sonatas recorded by Claudio Arrau on
|> |> lp's but I don't know whether they have been released on CD. I found
|> |> them quite enjoyable but have not really compared them with other versions.
|> 
|> This is available on the Philips label, 432 301-2, 10 CDs.
|> 


 There is also an earlier recording of the complete set by the same pianist 
  on the EMI label.

--------Etienne FREJAVILLE---Bull S.A   --------------------------------
 SPO-PARIS/DSE/LANG		        e-mail: E.Frejaville@frcl.bull.fr
 Rue Jean-Jaures, F6/1D/05, BP 53       tel: (33-1) 30806548
 78340 Les Clayes-sous-Bois, France     Fax: (33-1) 30807950

"On ne monte pas au paradis avec un train de marchandises"
                                
                                 Paul Klee (a propos d'Anton Bruckner)
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Development of musical understanding
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:21:24 GMT
	<1992Aug19.162816.28754@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <Bt8tGM.AI1@news.udel.edu>
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:17:10 GMT

Jon Conrad writes:

   [A Bach piece] takes us on a certain journey of harmonic
   tension-relaxation-release, which you won't get if you have no
   experience of how European harmony accomplishes this (it isn't
   innate, you have to have experienced some of the music).  It has a
   series of melodic shapes that combine and interact; again, if you
   aren't "trained" (I don't mean book learning or being able to *talk*
   about it, just the exposure one gets by frequent hearing) in the
   perception of melodic shaping in Western music, you'll miss this. ...
   ALL of this, and more, is culturally conditioned; to someone from
   another musical background, it might sound totally shapeless or
   meaningless.

Regarding the "training" that Jon mentions: I've raised two kids through
toddlerhood, which involves, among other things, teaching them to talk.
Linguists have described a "caretaker dialect" that exists in all
languages: a simplified, exaggerated style of speech that adults use
when talking to little kids, which conveys the underlying structure of
language during the learning phase.  At this same age, kids (in our
culture) LOVE songs like Jingle Bells and Happy Birthday.  They sing
these over and over and take real delight in them.  I wonder if such
songs serve a similar purpose in establishing the primitive structure of
our music.  Just as math begins with counting fingers and builds up
meaning in steps, maybe music has to develop in stages of increasing
sophistication.  If my analogy is valid, the real content of, say,
Indian classical music might be almost as inaccessible to me as that of
Urdu speech, since I haven't developed through the stages of Indian
music (and in fact, Indian classical music goes over my head).  I'd like
to know what kind of music appeals to kids in cultures with musical
structures very different from ours.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Wanted: A crash course in composer's styles
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:11:34 GMT

I have the discouraging opinion that there are no shortcuts here.  You
simply have to know all this music well enough that it starts to have
distinctive shapes and sounds to you.  Until you've reached that point,
any "bits of advice" people would give you would be useless because
their descriptions would be meaningless -- and AFTER that point, you
won't need those people's help.

It's also true that some folks are better than others at this sort of
thing.  An opera-nut friend of mine loves to ID the singers of
recordings he plays -- he quizzes me, and I quiz him.  When he got
married, he subjected his wife (a soprano, but not much into recordings
at the time) to his recordings, and now she surpasses him and me.  She
can name about any classical singer, past or present, whom we throw at
her in about 3 seconds, and she doesn't even work at it.  It's just easy
for her, to our amused indignation.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: eb11@quads.uchicago.edu (Ernest Barreto)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wanted: A crash course in composer's styles
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:30:13 GMT
Reply-To: eb11@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug14.133358.14160@zip.eecs.umich.edu> carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes) writes:
>
>>more often than in other pieces?  I mean, when you hear a classical
>>piece and say 'that sounds like Brahms', what is it about the piece
>>that tips you off that Brahms wrote it (if you didn't already know)?
>

>Sadness, greyness, heaviness, turgidity... :-) :-) 



To me, Brahms invariably sounds like he tried REALLY REALLY HARD
to write good music.

This is in contrast to Mozart, whose music sounds like it was a
breeze for him to compose.

Comments?

Ernie
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Baby grand pianos-what to look for
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:52:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CERFnet

Oops, some people trashed my piano, so here is my 2 cents.

I just bought a new Kawai upright which I am very happy with, my parents
own a Kawai baby grand (6') which has been played several hours a day
for years and they (and all the others players in my family) are happy
with it,  no it is not a Steinway but my upright with a really nice
Cherry finish and cabriole legs cost $2700 and my parents' baby grand
(about a year used) was about $5500 (6 or so years ago) with a light walnut 
finish.

For an upright (I know you're looking for a bg) I thought the Sohmer is
the best I saw both in play and in looks but it was $1500+ more than
my Kawai. In the 4-5K range I felt Sohmer provided the best playing,
listening experience, baby grands notwithstanding.

My brother owns a Korean piano Young Chang (I think) 5' baby grand and he likes
it alot, it get a fair amount of use (he teaches some piano lessons
among other things), I played it a little and I didn't see any problems,
although it wasn't the most exciting experience I've had.

My sister-in-law has a Baldwin upright and between you and me I think it's
trash, and in fact that's what the piano dealer said about the "low end"
Baldwins.

I've played a few Yamaha's and I really like them, I also looked at
Samack and thought they were a little less than I was looking for.

To get a good steinway costs big bucks, even a used one, and piano
rebuilding is not cheap. Pianos wear out so I would be cautious, I have
seen people selling very poor pianos for what I would call very 
good money.

If you have specific criticisms of Kawai I would like to hear them,
because for the dollar I think they produce a fine piano.

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Telefunken records
Keywords: Telefunken
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:11:17 GMT
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL

In article <18AUG199212285787@gallstone.bucknell.edu> jhill@gallstone.bucknell.edu (HILL, S JACKSON) writes:
>I am trying to track down a Telefunken recording Tel 6.28575.  I do not know
>title or performers, but it would seem to be an anthology of Volkslieder or
>something similar--perhaps short choral songs of various sorts.  Does
>Telefunken still produce or have they been sold to another company?  Is there
>anyone reading this who is in Germany and could telephone a local record shop
>for me and post or e-mail any information?  Any info would be welcome.


I'm not exactly sure of the sequence of events, but I *think* Telefunken
was a label owned by Teldec at some point, and about 12-18 months ago 
Teldec was bought by Warner.  Warner has since released a number of the 
Telefunken recordings, most notably the Bach Cantata series, but there 
remains many, many Telefunken recordings that are out of circulation.
I have current Teldec catalog, so if you can come up with more specific
info as to the contents of the recording, I might be able to help.  They 
have changed the catalog numbering scheme, so the old number you gave 
won't be of much help.

-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com

For detailed lists of Recommended Classical CDs, Basic Repertoire and Buying
Guide access cs.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) by anonymous FTP, or email me for info.

Contribute to the rec.music.classical biography project!  Email me your bio!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE OUTRAGE
Summary: Gilded Cage
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  Pretentiousness
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:35:30 GMT

Haus Der Luge wrote:

>It struck me recently that those who have been most nasty and rude 
>towards John Cage's music (a lot of them have, of course, come out of the 
>woodwork since his untimely death) ... are the people who need his music 
>the most.

Would you explain to us _non believers_ just what this is supposed to mean?
What woodwork are we supposed to come out of?  And I suppose in your world
if you don't like someone's music that means you're _rude_?

He may have been a nice person with a gentle appearance, but Wagner was an
asshole, and I love HIS music.

Ron
From: nkb@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Norman K Bucknor)
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Reply-To: nkb@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Norman K Bucknor)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:48:39 GMT


In article <1992Aug11.135910.10200@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <88274@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> 
>nbucknor@rcsuna.gmr.com (Norman Bucknor PW/17) writes:
>>One dreadful example is Ivan Rebroff as Prince Orlofsky in the Kleiber "Die
.........
>>So, after hearing
>>this squeaky, high-pitched voice, my only questions are : 1) who is this guy?
>
>Why, he's the solo basso in the Don Cossack Choir--one of the most
>popular performers in Germany.  A big hit for decades.
>
>>and 2) is his popularity in Germany(?) so great that they felt that the kind
>>of singing he does would add to the value of the recording? Leave the 
>
>Indeed.  Face it: Fledermaus is camp; in fact, it's *the* camp staple of
>the opera house.  Instead of doing Orlofsky as a relatively boring
>trouser role (I mean, aside from "Chacun a son gout" and the curtain of
>Act II, where they make him laugh, there's not exactly a lot *to* this
>part), why not do him as a real Russian male?  And what do Russian men
>sound like?  Ivan Rebroff, of course!  
Russian men sound like Tiny Tim delivering "Tiptoe through the Tulips"?
Nothing wrong with having a male singer per se (I saw one video with an old
Wolfgang Windgassen as Orlofsky), but Rebroff was singing in a falsetto voice.
You'd never know he was a basso from just listening to the recording. If that's
the joke, it's pretty lame.

>
>I agree -- it's only funny if you know who Rebroff is beforehand; but
>then, perhaps Kleiber didn't make the recording with you in mind.  Such,
>alas, are artistic decisions.
>
>>comedy casting to the role of Frosch!
>
>Why?  I'd like to see an *all*-comedian Fledermaus sometime.  It
>couldn't hurt; the story is not exactly one that's as funny the 50th
>time as it was the first, nor, for that matter, was the satire all that
>biting the first time.  Compared to Offenbach or G&S, Strauss is mighty
>timid--which is why only two of his operettas have lasted outside
>Austria.
>
>Roger

On the other hand, since the humor is relatively weak, the primary attraction
must be the music. In which case, 'bad' (or at least non-operatic) singers
might make for a poor show all-around.


Norman Bucknor
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:17:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.162816.28754@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:

>I think you are both right.

A nice humanitarian gesture, but I don't they CAN both be right,
logically speaking.

>Most music -- popular music provides the easiest example -- derives a
>great deal of its significance from cultural context; think of Bob
>Dylan, e.g., or "American Pie".

Or any other piece ever written.  I think you have too limited a notion
of what "cultural context" is.

>Bach, with his mathemticization, is a very dubious example of this
>theme, doubtless to his regret.  "Jesu joy of man's desiring" was
>intended to connect worshippers to their God.  I love the piece, but
>am anti-religious; the context is irrelevant to me.

That's only one (if that) of its intentions.  It also takes us on a
certain journey of harmonic tension-relaxation-release, which you won't
get if you have no experience of how European harmony accomplishes this
(it isn't innate, you have to have experienced some of the music).  It
has a series of melodic shapes that combine and interact; again, if you
aren't "trained" (I don't mean book learning or being able to *talk*
about it, just the exposure one gets by frequent hearing) in the
perception of melodic shaping in Western music, you'll miss this.  This
piece is a chorale prelude; one doesn't have to know that or know the
name, but if one is not hearing two distinct, yet intriguingly
interacting, rates of rhythmic motion, one is missing a whole lot of
what's going on.  ALL of this, and more, is culturally conditioned; to
someone from another musical background, it might sound totally
shapeless or meaningless.

>Now consider the "Eroica"; consider the change from celebrating
>Napoleon to celebrating freedom.

And?  The Eroica, regardless of Napoleon or freedom, is full of cultural
signals, some general (the way harmony moves), some specific (the
musical gestures that say "funeral march" or "joy").  Again (because
people seem to keep missing this point): you don't have to know the
NAMES for any of these, you don't have to have studied them.  But don't
kid yourself that you haven't assimilated all this stuff, just by
growing up listening to all kinds of music that shares these
assumptions.  It's what makes the music intelligible.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 16 Aug 92 21:59:57 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug16.194403.18619@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug16.144811.9375@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>
>>I will never understand the use of the Lohengrin Wedding March.  As far
>>as I can tell, this is only used in the US (people in Germany used to
>>get a chuckle when seeing it in an American movie); and it's hopelessly
>>insappropriate as soon as you know the source.

>>After all, a) it's a recessional, and b) he leaves her almost
>>immediately.

>>Oh, and the Mendelssohn's a recessional, too.  

>>I guess there's just something about life imitating art imitating life
>>that people can't resist.  (I've even heard the two pieces performed in a
>>sort of medley, with harmonic fumfering in between, at a wedding in a
>>Conservative Jewish synagogue.  On the organ.)

>We are free to choose music we like without regard for the opinions of
>pretentious Princetonians.  

a) I attend the University of Chicago.  I only post from here.

b) You're sounding pretty pompous yourself.

c) Did I ever say you were *not* free to choose what you liked?  I only
expressed my personal bewilderment at the process by which these two
numbers became favorites at actual weddings, as opposed to weddings in
plays and operas and movies.

>Personal choices like these are not to be criticized.  

Why not?  

>Even if a bride and groom were to  choose Spike Jones' "Cocktails
>For Two" as wedding music,  guests' opinions of that choice are of no
>consequence.

Funny, when I plan a big party and invite lots of guests, I take the
guests' sensibilities, wishes, etc. into consideration.  And since music
has the power to offend, the choice of music at a large gathering should
not be made as though nobody but those throwing the party were going to
be present.

And, yes, Wagner *does* offend some people.  Is this any different from
a symphony concert (cf. the Israel Phil's ongoing struggle wit
hanti-Wagnerians)?  Yes, of course.  At the symphony, you go for the
music, and you know what's being played beforehand.  At a wedding, you
do *not* go for the music, but must listen to it anyway.

Roger
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Reger's Song of the Hermit
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 03:19:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.031005.5413@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.233351.3248@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug22.151222.18230@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>>>In article <CB.92Aug21175058@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>>>>I was interested to hear a full-blown
>>>>late-romantic orchestral song that I didn't already know
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Whoops.

Happens to the best of us.

>>Actually, I bet it was the cantata "Der Einsiedler," a fairly late work
>>of Reger, which, unlike the Boecklin-Suite, calls for a singer.  There's
>>a Requiem from around the same time.  This is from Reger's heaviest
>>phase, with, among other things, strings divided into muted and unmuted
>>choirs, but sitting together, and all that polyphony.

>Is this a musical setting of the poem "Der Einsiedler" (the hermit) by
>Joseph von Eichendorf?

Ah do believe so.

> I note in "melvyl.ucop.edu" that there are least
>two musical settings of that poem (by Joseph Dessauer and Robert
>Franz).

Eichendorff did lend himself to that sort of thing...

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Musical Mystery Figures III: JC Martins
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:58 GMT

For those with an appetite for the unorthodox, I
recommend Joao Carlos Martins' recording of _The
Well-Tempered Clavier_ (four CDs, Tomato 2699132),
an unrepentantly iconoclastic, exhuberant, sunlit
performance, purchase of which was, in my own
case, irresistably mandated by the near-universal
pilo-erection displayed by paid agents of correct
performance.

Still no word on Carlos Paita ...



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 23:58:35 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:

> 
> |> In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
> |> where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".
> 
> Got a definition of music handy?
> 
> 	Vance

No definition, just the idea that something in a piece should be fixed. 
Fixed enough that listening to it lends it some sort of recognition.
Cage threw THAT idea away, too. So call it "sound sculpture" or 
something. 
 
Music and philosophy are a bad mix.
 
KS

;--- (Kevin Scott) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)
Subject: Re: Glass' music performances
Keywords: Glass
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:37:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.100300.6043@cs.ruu.nl> clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes:
>Can anyone tell me about performances of new
>Philip Glass material, especially in Europe?
>I'm interested in any of his non-recorded
>operas and his orchestral music, like The Light,
>and others.
>
>Also does anyone know if one of these (or perhaps
>more) are to be recorded in the near future?

His latest opera, "The Voyage", a collaboration with David Henry
Hwang to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Columbus' exploits,
will be premiered by the Metropolitan Opera (N.Y.C.), who also
commissioned it, this October.  If the work is at all well-received,
this almost guarantees a recording.  (b.t.w., does anyone out there
have an further info about this work?)
--jason
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Tower Records : Sale
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:22:04 GMT

In article <11AUG199207443564@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.144733.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>, bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu writes...
>>could someone in the new york area please post
>>on this net te next time there is a storewide sale at Tower records?

Forget Tower -- Record Hunter has an all-label, all-category sale for 2
weeks (until Aug 29).  Imported CDs are down to $13.97.  Unfortunately
they have a $50 minimum for mail-order.  You can call them at
(212) 697-8970.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.