From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Feminism's Lesbian Leaders (was: Why are there only men on)
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:18:53 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1993Jan7.224815.7390@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.214042.26285@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
: 
: And on the subject of feminism, lesbianism, and man-hating, some
: feminists claim that it is heterosexual women who are the biggest
: man-haters of all, because who are the ones who have to live with men?

>I don't doubt for a moment that many feminists do indeed claim this,
>because it's absolutely zany. Implicit in the assertion is: "Man-hatred
>is caused by having to spend time in the company of men, because men
>are absolute shits . Hence, het women *must* hate them, from spending so
>much time in that vile company. At least those of us who are *uncompromising*
>feminists, we Lesbians, we few, we happy few, we band of sisters, don't
>have to put up with men NEARLY so much as they do, so their man-hatred
>must even exceed OURS!"  Only to someone absolutely warped with hatred
>of men would this seem "logical," which is why I don't doubt it's a
>very common theme in certain feminist circles.

	Nonsense.

	It's just that a woman with a female SO doesn't have to deal
with any man as intimately as a woman with a male SO does.

	And may I point out that there are some lesbians who seem to
be misogynists; the biggest example I know of is your favorite
lesbian, Camille Paglia.

: 	There is a difference between:
: 
: 	Having a sexual preference for the same sex
: 
: 	and
: 
: 	Hating members of the opposite sex

>Logically, yes, that's certainly possible. But whether it is generally
>true is a separate question. Perusing various lesbian literature, it
>does NOT seem to support Loren's suggestion that their view is "Yes,
>men are OK, I guess, nothing against them, I'd just prefer a woman."
>It's more like "Die, Vile Exploiting patriarchal scum!"

	Like what lesbian literature? Andrea Dworkin is _not_ the
typical lesbian. Ask around on soc.motss if you don't believe me. Or
even in this newsgroup.

	And there are a lot of women who consider themselves
feminists, and even lesbian ones, who do _not_ think that all men are
evil, as you seem to think they do.

	Try reading Susie Bright's books (Susie Bright's Sexual
Reality, complete with her Camille Paglia interview, and Susie
Sexpert's Lesbian Sex World). She doesn't seem like a man-hater; just
a woman whose sexual preference is other women.

: 	And Robert Sheaffer, why are you so _sensitive_ about this

>Me, sensitive about *this*?

	You sound like someone who is very sore about the thought that
any woman would reject you.

	As a parting note, I think it significant that gay men don't
get accused of misogyny very much -- the big objection to men being
gay is apparently that gay men are not "real" men, and not that they
supposedly hate women. I think that the best disproof of that thesis
might come if one screams it in a gay bar; it would probably come in
the form of a punch in the nose. :-):-)
-- 
/Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
/lip@s1.gov
Newsgroups: alt.feminism