From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:04:19 GMT

In article <107410192@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller) writes:
>> ... No THING is inherently evil, something Mr. Estabrook has repeatedly 
>> disagreed with but never supported.  I'm simply quoting the Bible.
>>
>>  -- Scott @Brandeis
>
>May I submit that "things" are evil If 1) they are brought into being in a
>clearly sinful manner, or 2) they are for all intent and purpose designed to
>facilitate the commission of sin. An example of the first kind would be a 
>neat-sounding synth sample obtained by burning babies with cigarettes. I 
>don't care whether you play "Amazing Grace" with it, or whether it is 
>sufficiently doctored so you can't tell its a baby's scream, its still
>evil. Goods and services which are produced by the clear and unrepentant 
>abuse/exploitation of others are in the same category...

The evil is in the action of burning the baby with cigarettes.  More
specifically, it is in the action of the person burning the baby with
cigarettes.  If the same sound can be created by clever programming of the
synth, the sound is not evil.  Since I don't know where the sound came from
(I would assume it was artificial if I actually heard it), I cannot say
the sound itself is evil.  Once again, THINGS cannot be given the character-
istics of people.

>  Examples of the second kind would be an instrument of torture, such as a 
>rack, or perhaps a statue of Moloch, complete with uplifted hands designed
>for people to pan-fry their babies in...

There is nothing evil in the rack itself; the evil is in the people who use
the thing to torture others.  It is a subtle difference but quite significant.

>I'm not sure that such were what paul was talking about in the "all *things* 
>are lawful" passage Scott is apparently referring to.

The passage I refer to (Romans 14:14) does not say all things are lawful; it
says nothing (which I translate to no THING) is unclean in itself.  Which is
why I say it is a "direct" quote which Mr. Estabrook has refuted but not
supported Scripturally.  If you don't like that verse, consider that Jesus
said it is not what comes in to a man that makes him unclean, but what is in
his heart.  Music is simply periodic pressure variations in the air in our
ears (which comes in to the body).  There is nothing inherently bad about
such pressure variations.  And the author's initial intent in his/her lyrics
is irrelevant to how I perceive the lyrics (the same is true of reading
literature).  The only time the author's intent is important is when the
writings have AUTHORITY over me, as in Biblical writings.  Since the Bible
has authority, I must find out what Paul's intent was instead of simply
deciding what it means to me and letting that suffice.  But since, Sammy
Hagar's word has no authority over me, his intent in his lyrics are 
irrelevant.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.