HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbatka@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: How can the F-117 fly...
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:03:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: desire.1992Oct16.120328.4893
Distribution: na
Organization: Wright State University

In article <1992Oct15.202930.29182@aw2.fsl.ca.boeing.com>, gcr8829@aw2.fsl.ca.boeing.com (Gustav C. Rettke) writes:
> From article <92272.102248AERE7114@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>, by AERE7114@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca:
>> I'm not sure of the numbers, but the F-117 is nicknamed the "Wobbly Goblin"
>> 
> 
> Hmmm.  Weren't there prototype jets called Goblins back in the fifties.  These
> were 'parasite' escort fighters for the B-36.  They had no landing gear, but

[Stuff Deleted]

No, I am aware of the prototype Goblins but the actual origin of the name
Wobblin' Gobblin was from one of Tom Clancy's novels ("Red Storm Rising")
I believe.  It was the name he gave to the fictional F-19 which was
supposed to be the 'Stealth Fighter' that the F-117 was.

The name was given because Clancy felt that by optimizing stealth
characteristics, the aircraft designers would be forced to sacrifice
other aircraft characteristics, in this case stability.
 
-- 

   Jim Batka  | Always remember ...                        | Buckaroo
   Modemman   |    No matter where you go, there you are!  |   Bonzai
--------------+--------------------------------------------+--------------
It is very    | Work Email:  BATKAJ@CCMAIL.DAYTON.SAIC.COM | Elvis is
often easier  | Home Email:  JBATKA@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU      |   DEAD!
to get for-   |--------------------------------------------+--------------
giveness then | 64 years is 33,661,440 minutes ...         | Beatles:
permission!   |    and a minute is a LONG time!            |   Yellow Submarine
From: jstewart@Software.Mitel.COM (John Stewart)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Voice and Data Recorders
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:50:16 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Oct13.184256.6490@unx.ucc.okstate.edu> martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) writes:
>  It will be interesting to hear from anybody who has actually worked with these
>systems and can tell us about the nuts and bolts of voice and data recorders.
>

I did a few days work on some computer systems that read data recorder
stuff. They had a few of "the failures" kicking around, and I had
a look at them. I am no expert, but...

1) they are indeed orange. They are very approx 6" high, 8" wide, and
   18-20" long.

2) they are powered by the main aircraft power supply. I *think* that 
   the internal power arrangements are such that they will run for a 
   few seconds afterwards, but I am really not sure about that. (I asked
   the question, forgot the answer, but see below)

3) with the aircraft power out, the instruments that it records are not
   working, thus the need for independent power is not there.

4) they have an internal tape, continuous loop, approximately 1/4" tape.
   The tape is in a metal case to protect it.

5) because of the continuous loop, finding the "break" where the recorder
   stopped is difficult.

6) reading tapes: The equipment that I worked on read the tapes with an
   analog reader, so that they could set the thresholds for the digital
   signal where they wanted it to be. (Digital signal? I'm 99% sure,
   again, this is in the past)

The failures generally were because of fire; the tape is encased, but
it still burns. One data recorder was open showing the charred fragments
of tape stuck to one side of the case.

They had a room next door where they graphically displayed the path of
a plane synchronized with voice recordings from the plane and from the
control tower. They generally showed this stuff to pilots to get their
opinion on what happened. (the room behind the lab contained the parts
of a recent wreckage of a plane that went down...)

I would not take the above to be gospel truth; I was employed to network
2 computers involved in the analysis, not to ask interesting questions!

John Stewart

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: arw4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
Subject: Re: Aplogy to Robert Dorsett & More on El Al Disaster
Reply-To: arw4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:18:58 GMT

I recall reading some place that the most effective solution to convincing
birds not to hang around airports was to bring over trained hawks. 
(ie. the people who hunt with hawks for sport get to hunt all year round at
airports, the birds soon migrate to another place).
(Cant remember the term for hunting w/ hawks)

Aaron

Aaron R. Wininger, Carnivore                 Columbia Plasma Physics Laboratory
arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu                                 Columbia University
wininger@cuplvx.ap.columbia.edu                              New York, NY 10027
      'That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.'  -Nietzche
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: pthomson@iastate.edu (I Forgot)
Subject: Re: Aurora tidbit
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:31:18 GMT

In <70990@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt8303a@prism.gatech.EDU (The Great and Mighty Confused) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.111239.4712@desire.wright.edu> f0408@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>	If anyone is interested, I'll try to get a transcript of the lecture
>>(or of the more interesting portions of the two hours) from the USAF Museum.

>Please do send me (or post here) a transcript.
>I'd appreciate it.

>Andy Entrekin
>gt8303a@prism.gatech.edu

Better yet, please post it.
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo)
Subject: Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:57:02 GMT

In article <92283.131931FNOTMAN@ESTEC.BITNET> <FNOTMAN@ESTEC.BITNET> writes:
>>>Personally, with the 747 doing a circle over a lake with two engines o
>>>fire, I think the pilot had a responsibility to dump the plane in the
>>>water rather than flying into a densely populated area loaded with fue.
>
>>I agree with you.  However a survey of 747 pilots said that it is nearly
>>impossible to recover control of a 747 that loses two engines with
>>such little altitude.  actually I think they said Impossible.
>>particulaly a heavy loaded plane such as a cargo causes
>>even more problems.  The first thing they should do is jettison that
>>fuel.   The pilots did this.  Second thing to do is to regain your altiude.
>>The jettisoning of fuel would lighten the load to regain control.
>>The falling rate is something of at least 1500 ft/min i believe,
>>(please correct me if I am wrong)
>
> Surely you contradict yourself here, if control is (or is near) to impossible
>then that's more reason to aim for something a big as the Ijsellmeer than such
>a small target as the Runway.

This is the point, if you cant control the plane, you cant even
aim for something big.  How can you aim for anything if you have no control?
Ill bet you cant even hit the side of a barn with your car if someone took
away your rack and pinion.  Once that happens it's luck.  Not only did
the run into sudden power loss, but also uneven wieght distribution,
too much power on the one side as well as sudden loss of altitude 
which hinders your ability to turn.  They 
were caught in a continous right turn.  There was no getting out of it
without sufficient altitude


> For the record, the Ijsellmeer is what USED to be the ZuiderZee, i.e. it's the
>LARGE expance of in-land sea that was dammed to form the great polders and run
>to "fresh" water (Shipol is itself below see level). It has to my mind 2
>advantages when putting a plane in it :-
> 1/ It's a BIG target, even at the bottom end beside Amsterdam (it's narrowest
>section), it's about 5 miles across, point NE along it and you's about 20-25
>miles of "clear" water (then a road, then another 40 miles due north).
> 2/ most of it's pretty shallow.
>
> I undertood it was 6000 ft and falling at 600/min. Afterall, reports said
>crew fought to recover plane for nearly 10 minutes. I would have thought that
>after 1st circle they should have headed for water (there's plenty around)

I dont know if only 600 feet/min is sufficient, that doesnt
sound like the descent of a 747 with sudden power loss.  But I wont
argue, because I am not sure.  Only that I remember seeing 1500 ft/s
but again I'm not sure.  
As far as the first circle, after the first circle the second one came
just as quick.  They were caught in a continous circle.


Derek H Cedillo

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: vkochend@nyx.cs.du.edu (vance kochenderfer)
Subject: Personal message for Ron Mathias
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 17:46:08 GMT


     Ron Mathias, if you read this, would you please respond via e-mail?
     Thanks.

Vance Kochenderfer
vkochend@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Crash causes and faults [Long] (was Re: El Al 747...)
Date: 10 Oct 92 11:47:18 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Oct9.191642.23055@athena.mit.edu> cid@athena.mit.edu (Derek H Cedillo) writes:
>As far as sabatoge goes, this is unlikely.  A cargo plane is not
>the likely target of a terrorist attack.  Who are they going to affect?

  Ok experts, a question: Is it possible to see the difference between a
cargo 747 and a passenger 747 if it passes over you at, say, 1000ft?
  If so, is it easy to see the difference?

>Derek H Cedillo

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: greg@korg3.columbiasc.ncr.com (Greg Porr)
Subject: Re: Bright Green Fireball
Organization: NCR Corp, MCPD-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 16:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.085326.1@scivax.stsci.edu> gliba@scivax.stsci.edu writes:
>   A bright green fireball was seen over several states on friday night.

I saw a brief report of this on a national news show late Friday night;
their wording was something like "a very large meteor shower", which I
took to mean that there were multiple bright meteors over a period of
some time.  They also said that there was some likelihood that it
would happen again Saturday night.  I assume now that there was just
one bright fireball, not an actual shower.

South Carolina's Sunday edition of "The State" newspaper reported that
some hunters saw what they thought was a plane crash Friday night, and
notified the authorities, but it turned out to be the fireball.

-- Greg Porr
   (Greg.Porr@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM)
From: jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Meteoryite hits car in New York state
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:00:43 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

Was this covered by her auto insurance :-)


/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@eros.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ 
| If the official Republican platform is carried out,           |
| a 13 year old girl who becomes pregnant as a result of being  |
| raped by her father, and who has an abortion, could end up    |
| in the gas chamber.                                           |
From: eramos@gmuvax.gmu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: databases in astrophysics
Date: 10 Oct 92 12:00:50 -0500
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.



I'm looking for a good reference in "Database requierements for astrophysical research (x-ray and gamma-ray). Any suggestion?

Elio Ramos/CSI Institute
George Mason University.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: ledlow@triton.unm.edu (redrow)
Subject: Re: Diesen sphere or Strungen Sphere
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 02:25:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>In article <Bw0poC.E4z@Novell.COM>, steve_olson@npd.novell.com writes:
>> Does anyone know any thing about a Diesen sphere or a Strungen Sphere? 
>> It is supposed to be a sphere with a star in the middle. 
>

I think you mean a Stromgren sphere.  Stromgren was looking at the problem
of the formation of a star out of the surrounding medium.  He made two 
assumptions : that the star rapidly evolved to it's full luminosity, and 
that the medium was homogeneous.  The model is that of a star centered in 
the sphere embedded in ionized gas (HII region) which is separated by 
a thin layer from an HI region (neutral Hydrogen).  The sphere containing 
the HII gas is the stromgren sphere.  For a complete discussion on the
sphere's properties, you might want to look in "Astrophysical Concepts" by
Harwit, or some similar text.

--Michael


Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: palmer@sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer)
Subject: Re: It's the end of the world as we know it...
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:07:54 GMT

In article <STEINLY.92Oct16150657@topaz.ucsc.edu> steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu
(Steinn Sigurdsson) writes:
>
>So, looks like the Perseids in 2126 might be
>unusually spectacular (see IAUC 5636) ;-)
>
>Anyone run Marsden's fit and checked the close
>approach? What's the fractional cross-section
>for collision assuming standard error and
>no non-gravitational perturbations?
>
> - any bets on how many headlines this will
>hit tomorrow?

I just told my students in introductory astronomy about it. I also suggested
that this might be as good a reason as any to start a new apocalyptic religion.
With jobs so hard to get these days, perhaps this is an entrepreneurial
opportunity!

It's nice to beat the papers occasionally.

Leigh
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: gerry@bluemoon.rn.com (Gerard M. Foley)
Subject: Re: rumor concerning Saturn's rings
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 07:46:52 EDT

mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis) writes:

> 
> 
> Could someone please tell me when the rings around Saturn were
> discovered????
> 
> I heard an rumor that people in ancient times could see them (and
> a whole lot of other stuff) with the naked eye.....
> 
> thanx in advance
> 
> -- 
> maThiEu a. LeWis    
> cyber-mercenary         This sentnce has threee errors. 
> Thieves Like Us      
> mal11@Po.cwru.edu    

I beleive Galileo had Saturn as a triple system, planet and 
two big moons or three nearly touching planets.

gerry@bluemoon.rn  My amateur radio callsign is K8EF, and my
packet radio address is K8EF@W8CQK.OH.USA.NA
From: jackz@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Jack Zeiders)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:48:15 GMT
Subject: Telescopes and schoolkids
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
From: jscherer@novell.com (John Scherer)
Subject: Looking for some software..
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:50:09 GMT

I seem to remember seeing a program that you would give it the object you
wish to locate and it whould tell you what chart in the StarAtlas 2000.0 to
look at..  can anyone help..


John Scherer
jscherer@novell.com


Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: metares@well.sf.ca.us (Tom Van Flandern)
Subject: Re: Discrete Red Shifts
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:10:07 GMT


mock@space.mit.edu (Patrick C. Mock) writes:

> In summary the PSA is notorious for false alarms and it can be fooled by
> nonperiodic correlations.  ...  I will remain skeptical of these results
> until Tifft, Guthrie, Napier, etc. use better tools to analyze their data.

     There is just one thing wrong with your skeptical analysis of the
redshift periodicity, and speculations about what might have caused a false
signal: The uncorrected observed redshifts show no significant periodicities
whatever.  Only after redshifts in all directions are corrected for the
galactic rotation of the Sun and orbital motion of the Earth does the
periodicity pop out.  The same periodicity has now appeared in two different
independent samples of galaxies.  PSA (power spectrum analysis) was the tool
available to the researchers.  It may not be the best possible tool, but it
is certainly adequate for this purpose.  The resulting periodicities have
undeniable statistical significance.

     Few objected when nearly the whole astronomical community reserved
judgment after Tifft's results were announced, despite the care with which
they appeared to be derived.  But I think it is objectionable that no attempt
to replicate the results with an independent sample was made for over ten
years.  Now the result has been replicated, and by skeptics attempting to
disprove it at that.  I don't suggest that you now discount all possibility
that there may still be some error.  But in my opinion, it is not
scientifically objective to continue a strong skepticism at this point.  A
redshift periodicity has been found and verified.  Whether or not that fits
with anyone's preconceptions about the universe is scientifically irrelevant.
It is time to start considering the implications of this result.

     There is a pattern emerging from recent results on many fronts.  It
takes nothing more than a skeptical but open mind to figure out what it all
probably means for cosmology.  The real universe isn't going to conform to
the prevailing opinions of Earth scientists; so the prevailing opinions are
going to have to change to conform to the real universe.  The sooner, the
better, wouldn't you say?  -|Tom|-

-- 
Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / metares@well.sf.ca.us
Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise
supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy.
From: alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Observing Venus in daylight
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 15:12:48 +1000
Reply-To: alfa@csource.oz.au
Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia

frank@hsr.no (Frank A Stevenson) writes:

>    I would like to hear from people who have observed Venus in daylight
> under similar conditions in order to find out what I am doing wrong. Have I
> simply overlooked Venus or is the apperature to small. Any help would be
> appreciated.

 This is much easier to do if you wait (next year) until venus is visible in 
the MORNING.
 You watch it at about sunrise, then you mark a position on the ground where
venus is positioned just above *that* branch on that tree over there.
You then come out at 1/2 hour intervals through the day and mark new positions 
on the ground, so you always know which branch/pole/chimney to look over to
find venus.
 I've only done this once, but it was dead simple to spot venus every time 
during the day with the naked eye - once you knew exactly where you had to 
look.     Watched it up until about 3:00pm when I had to go off and do some 
work elsewhere.

How much patience do you have?   Can you wait 'till next year?   :-)


GD

.........................................................
glenn durden
alfa@csource.oz.au  Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
The opinions expressed above are that of the author only.
From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: What makes Fireballs green
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:55:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <92288.115121K3032E0@ALIJKU11.BITNET> K3032E0@ALIJKU11.BITNET (Herbert Raab) writes:

>The light you see from a meteor is not really the meteoride burning up, it's
>the ionized air. The green color comes from ionized oxygene (By the way, it's
>the same what makes bright planetary nebulae look green).

Meteor spectra contain emission lines from the materials in them.
Without specific spectral information, it is not certain that the green
originates from oxygen or meteoritic material.  If I think of it, I will
look up the most likely contributor to green color which can originate
from the meteor itself.  

_______________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier					Mitel Corporation
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Elements for Toutatis??
Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:04:04 GMT

[]

Anyone have the orbital elements for asteroid Toutatis??

mike

-- 
"There is no problem too big that can't be solved with high explosives"-Rush

Mike Smithwick - ames!zorch!mike

Xref: sparky sci.astro:10701 sci.space:14428
From: sl25@cus.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space
Subject: Re: Diesen sphere or Strungen Sphere
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:19:05 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England


|> A Dyson sphere with a radius of one A.U. (as postulated in the Start Trek 
|> episode to which the poster refered - it's also a nice round number) and 1 km
|> thick would require about 10e17 cubic km of materials. 
|> 
|> Earth has a volume close to 10e12 cubic km.  Jupiter is about 100 times bigger.
|> 
|> Where is there enough stuff to build out of?

The answer of course is that you don't build it 1km thick. Using all the available
matter we get about 1m thick, which would be plenty to plate solar collectors on.
Indeed a metre of solid rock, spread out would make plenty of levels of low-g
living space.

However there is another problem. A rigid spherical shell cannot all be in orbit,
the poles would fall in. There are two solutions to this that I have heard

1) instead of  rigid shell you have a large number of small (asteroid like)
bodies in carefully arranged orbits. These can deply very thin solar collectors
like wings to ensure that no energy is allowed to escape.

2) have a VERY thin shell, supported by the light pressure inside and perhaps
passing power to external orbitting habitats. A 1AU shell for the sun would be
about 3 microns thick (if made of rock) and would mass no more than a medium
sized moon.
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: rmt@unh.edu (Roy M Turner)
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Reply-To: rmt@cs.unh.edu (Roy M. Turner)
Organization: Computer Science Department/Marine Systems Eng. Lab., U. New
	Hampshire
	<1992Oct15.012632.12058@odin.corp.sgi.com>
	<1992Oct15.031436.6209@pony.Ingres.COM> <1bj332INN6b3@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:36:05 GMT

In article <1bj332INN6b3@fido.asd.sgi.com> mtj@babar.asd.sgi.com (Michael Jones) writes:
   In article <...>, kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes:
     [...bold CONJECTURES and OPINIONS about aliens and supressed EVIDENCE...]

   PERHAPS this new STYLE of typography is the TEXTUAL equivalent of
   seeing ED MCMAHON'S face on a LETTER in your MAILBOX.


Nah, it's Zippy the Pinhead typography. APROPOS, don't you THINK?
 	 
--
-------------
Roy M. Turner
Research Assistant Professor
Department of Computer Science/Marine Systems Engineering Laboratory
Kingsbury Hall, University of New Hampshire, Durham, NH 03824
Internet:   rmt@cs.unh.edu			Phone: (603)862-2980
Newsgroups: sci.astro