From: fall@ektools.kodak.com (Jeffrey E. Fall)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered
Subject: My opinion about an entry level m.j.o. group
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:32:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Originator: fall@ektools

Here is my two cents worth on this "Entry M.J.O. flaming and hype.

Granted, the econ. is rough and timing is bad.  Nothing seems to be
going your way.  And, you don't need to see ads here in m.j.o.
offering nice salaries with disclaimers against new graduates, ect.

There are reasons for this, reasons corporate recruiters will not admit
to, reasons professional recruiters don't want to deal with.  It is all
a matter of scale; the size of the company doing the hiring.

Usually, the larger the company, the less actual "Computer Science"
work you will perform, (in the long run), and the more politics you'll
have to endure and play if you are to progress up the ladder. 
If you are lucky enough to be hired by a large company, you will be
given the time to get up to speed and train.  They can usually afford to
to this.

The smaller companies, startups, ect. will really put you to work
right away and will expect long hours and high performance.
But, a smaller company is less able to train talent.  They can't
financially absorb the cost of bringing a new member up to speed.
You have to hit the floor running.  Here is a chance for raw personality
and talent to shine as you are very visible.

These opinions are my observations after working in the computing
field for six years.  I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science in
1983.  At that time, there was a resession just as there is now.
And, I didn't even have access to Internet to look for a job.
I remember the hundreds of resumes I had to send out and all of the
rejection wall-paper which came back in.  I had all but given up
on finding a job with the corporations.

My salvation came from a guy in a contracting firm who was willing
to stick his neck out for me.  He thought I had the talent and
personality to fit into his client's situation.  And indeed I did.
Working for a contract house is not an easy start for your
career, but, it is a beginning.  And, yes, you DO GAIN the EXPERIENCE.

basically, the contract house will hire you as an employee of their
own and pay you $10.00 to $20.00 an hour and benefits.  You work at a
client site as an employee bringing in for the contract house about
$30.00 to $100.00 and hour.  Doesn't sound fair, but, it is a start.
And yes, the folks that run the contract houses get rich, it's one
way to do it.  You feel exploited, but, after a time, you can 
hire in directly with the company you are actually working at.  ANd, 
after a year or two, you have experience and are in a better posture to
start the search all over again.

Head hunters are also a good way to get contacts.  Let them work for
you.  They have years of experience in negotiating salary and of selling
your talents.  Use a Head Hunter after you have one or two years of
contracting under your belt, to get a "real" job.

Contracting is how I started and I didn't mind it, except for the
overhead of having a contracting boss, (who gives the raises) and a
client boss, (who hands out the work and pays the contract boss).
One boss is enough and getting them both in line to convince about
a raise you feel you have earned is tough.

There are a few contracting outfits advertising on here I have seen.
I can't attest to if they are good or not.  Any outfit which will land
you a first job is good.  Sell yourself.  Don't come across: "I am just
out of school, I took this class, that class, this GPA, ect.) Does not
apply in the professional working world.  People don't care, or do they
have the time to care.  They want to know: How can you integrate with
my current staff and what talents do you bring to the table to help
me get these job(s) done!  Contracting houses and Head Hunters will ask
the same questions.

The best advice I can give - if you know what you want to do, then focus
on it and just do it.  Believe me, you folks are a lot sharper then me
or many folks at larger corporations who are battle weary of cutbacks
cancelled projects.  You will probably do your most interesting
work in the first five years.  Find your strength and focus on it.
It may be a particular operating system and language like VMS and VAX C
or Unix.  SOme folks may gravitate toward operating system internals,
others toward applications.  All you really get in school is mostly
applications, unless you are in Computer Engineering.

A good guide line I have used is to look at the job offerings here and
train for them.  Unix is hot on here, mostly BSD.  There is some System
V stuff happening, a little VMS.  I have noticed a lot of Unix internals
stuff on here.  That's going to preclude a lot of you as there is a lot
of work which a full school load will not permit, to learn about
Unix Drivers and internals.  But, it could not hurt to study the
Sun Drivers Book for SunOS.  You could even try to write one and
test it on a stand alone machine if you can borrow root for awhile.

There is also a lot of networking stuff on here, things using RPC's
and NFS.  There is a lot of system management here too.  The best way
to learn that is to get an old SUn manual set and read up. Get an old
beat SUn unix box and an old Unix copy, (too old for Sun to even care)
and set up your system.  Set up the password file, set up UUCP to
copy to a friend's computer or the school, (cooperation needed =
negotating skill!).  Before long, you can say you have practical
experience.                      

These days employers will screen you on the phone.. Usually you will
get a "personality" interview to test your disposition.  If this
passes, you'll get a technical interview by a member of the technical
group for which you are under consideration.  The first interview
usually takes some polish.  Be confident, but not cockey.  The second
you learned above as you focused and are an expert in your area of
interest.  If you get through these two, a plane trip may be in order.
Here is where it pays to feel out the corporate culture and dress for
the occassion.  A suit will usually do in the East, while California
may require more casual attire as may Fla.  It seems the larger
companies are more suit driven too where as the smaller ones
are founded by "rebels" of the larger who want a more relaxed 
working environment.

Don't sit back and bitch about things.  There are plenty of good
jobs right here.  YOU have to rise to the occassion and meet
the recruiter or contractor at some half-way point.  Only you can
make it happen.

(Disclaimer - this is the opinion of Jeff Fall and not that of
 Eastman Kodak Company)

I can only take credit for my bad spelling and grammer.

Hope this helps!

jef
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered