HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@cthq.UUCP (Paul G. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Apple Internet Router (problem solved)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:15:04 GMT
Reply-To: paul@cthq.uucp
Organization: CommsTalk HQ
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4

To all those who offered advice in respect of the problems I was having
installing the Apple Internet Router for some friends: the answer was indeed
to install using the Network Software Installer disk v1.2, which I found
on the Developer CDs.

Of course, this does beg the question: why on earth doesn't Apple include
this disk in the standard System 7 software distribution?

best regards, Paul

----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul G Smith @ CommsTalk HQ       INTERNET:  "paul@cthq.uucp"   
AppleLink: "commstalk.hq" ("commstalk.hq@applelink.apple.com")
tel/fax:   + 44 491 574295  (dial 11 on 2nd dial tone for fax)
snail:	40 St Marks Road, Henley-on-Thames, Oxon. RG9 1LW. UK
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: Joe Niski <niski@ssd.intel.com>
Subject: Re: AppleTalk drivers For Windows3.1
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:35:01 GMT


>In article <steveh.711368681@tasman>, on 17 Jul 1992 10:24:41 GMT,
>steveh@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Steve Howell) writes:
>
>>
>>   I have just installed windows 3.1 on my 486.. and to my suprise
>>there is no support for my already existing apple talk network of
printers
>>and servers.
>>
>Once upon a time, Win 2.x, an appletalk driver existed... it was written
>by a third party hardware manufacturer of PC Appletalk boards and first
>distributed with Aldus Pagemaker... that company has long ceased to
>exist and no-one of the current Appletalk board manufacturers seem
>interested at all in providing support for Windows 3.x. Microsoft
>certainly doesn't care, all they say is contact your appletalk
>board manufacturer. Apple stopped selling appletalk boards for the
>PC so I doubt they would ven be sympathetic to the request...
>instead the trend is to come out with printers that support serial
>and parallel interfaces in addition to Appletalk.
>
>-- Denis

Farallon Computing took over Apple's LocalTalk PC card over a year ago, i
believe - they might be the folks to ask about updated AppleTalk drivers
for that _other_ operating environment ;-0


 
Joe Niski                                          niski@ssd.intel.com
Macintosh (yes, Macintosh) Newtwork Admin.
Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Beaverton, OR USA
From: srp@babar.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Scott R. Presnell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Mac <-> MacSLIP <-> Ether <-> Fastpath <-> Mac
Keywords: MacSLIP, Fastpath, Appletalk
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:50:41 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

Is there a way to make an Appletalk connection in the following manner:

	Mac1						
	^
	| via MacSLIP/MacTCP
	V
	Annex <-> Ethernet backbone <-> FastPath1 <-------> Zone1 Mac2,3,4
			^
			|
			+-------------> FastPath2 <-------> Zone2 Mac5,6,7

So that from Mac1 I can "see" all the zones that are available via the
FastPaths+Ethernet Backbone?

Is this what UAB is for?  Would CAP play a part?  What would be needed?

(I know I can manage a Appletalk connection with ARA - I'd like to try to
do it via SL/IP).

	Thanks for any help...


	- Scott Presnell (srp@cgl.ucsf.edu)

-- 
Scott Presnell				        +1 (415) 476-9890
Pharmaceutical Chemistry, S-926			srp@cgl.ucsf.edu
University of California
San Francisco, CA 94143-0446
From: RAFI@BGUVMS.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:25:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

unsubscribe rafi@bguvms
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: jbotz@sophia.smith.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: CAP 6.0 on Ultrix 4.2A
Organization: Smith College
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:10:31 GMT

In article <yuan1.712440645@husc9> yuan1@husc9.harvard.edu (Nina Yuan) writes:
>A quick question; does the packet filter problem that exists when running
>CAP 6.0 PL100 under Ultrix 4.2A also occur under 4.2A, or does 4.2A have
>the patched net_common.o and pfilt.o?  I would think it does, but it would
>help if I knew for sure.

Ultrix 4.2A does _not_ include the patched net_common.o and pfilt.o.
You still need to get those patches and apply them.
From: rrp@cfm.brown.edu (Bob Petrocelli)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Help with CAP 6.1 and Laserwtr
Date: 29 Jul 1992 13:14:24 GMT
Organization: Brown University Center for Fluid Mechanics
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: dam.brown.edu
Originator: rrp@rufus

Hello CAP users,

I installed CAP 6.1 today on a SUN4/quadra 700 combo and
the file server component works great!...I have a problem
with lwsrv and wellcome any insights...The lwsrv appears
in the chooser and accepts print jobs...these same jobs then
appear in the unix print queue...the printer recieves data..
and then...NOTHING! no page is printed...I suspect this
is a problem with the apple dictionary (Laserprep) but
could be wrong. Any help would be appreciated!!!

Bob Petrocelli

rrp@dam.brown.edu
From: gtw@EXTRO.UCC.SU.OZ.AU (Gilbert Taylor-Wood)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: ARAP and User&Groups files?
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:41:31 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Ben Schmidt asked 
>PS. Any news on a tool to transfer ascii files of userids into User &
>Groups file format, so userids on AppleShare 3.0 servers can be maintained
>from a centralized userid database?

Try Virtual User from Apple, It lets you script a series of typing
clicks etc. (Apple designed it as a testing/bug finding tool).
You can generate the script using say awk then use virtual
user to perform the actions to add the users. Peter Dodd from the
University of Western Australia has been using this to add students
to AppleShare file servers each session.

regards
  Gilbert

Gilbert Taylor-Wood                          gtw@arts.su.edu.AU
Network Manager
Faculty of Arts A14                          Ph  +61 2 692 4713
The University of Sydney                     Fax +61 2 692 2045
NSW 2006
AUSTRALIA                    SysAdmin: The ghost in the machine
From: glen@Cayman.COM (Glen B. Glater)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: mix GatorBoxes and FastPaths (take 2)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:15:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.GLEN.92Jul30101515
Followup-To: comp.protocols.appletalk
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: glen@Cayman.COM's message of 30 Jul 92 14:07:41 GMT

Oops.  I meant for the table to look like this:


	Uses port 910				Doesn't use port 910
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Cayman GatorBox				Shiva FastPath 5
	Cayman GatorBox CS
	Cayman GatorBox GX

	Compatible Systems EtherRoute

	Farallon StarRouter (not yet shipping)

	NetMinder EtherTalk from Neon 
	(decodes port 910 tunnels)

Also, I failed to mention that if you wanted to tunnel between the FP and 
the GatorBox, you could use KIP and ATALKAD.  While I personally don't 
like that solution, it is avialable to you.  Both the GatorBox and the
FP support KIP and ATALKAD.

As usual, questions can be directed to support@cayman.com or 
glen@cayman.com.

Glen
--

	*************************************************************
	Glen B. Glater				Phone: (617) 494-1999         
	Technical Support Engineer		Fax:   (617) 494-5167         
	Cayman Systems Inc.			Internet: glen@cayman.com     
	26 Landsdowne Street			AppleLink:  CAYMAN.TECH	      
	Cambridge, MA   02139            SneakerNet:  3rd cube on the left    
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: bschmidt@bnr.ca
Subject: ARAP and User&Groups files?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:43:21 GMT

I have a bank of Macs acting as an interim ARAP server pool behind
a PBX hunt group.  I'd like them to share a common User & Groups
file to simplify administration.  Any user can end up on any mac in the
hunt group, so the User&Groups files must be identical across all the
Macs. I've had problems aliasing the individual User&Groups files all 
back to one User&Group file - any tips and/or hints as to what I'm doing 
wrong?  Or even: anyone doing this?  Then I'll know to keep trying.

Also I'd like to exceed the System 7 personal appleshare limit, which
I've been told, is 100 userids.  I've also been told that AppleShare 3.0's
User & Groups file can handle 8000 userid's.  

Since I'd prefer not to install AppleShare 3.0 on every one of my dial-in
Macs just so the User & Groups file can hold more than 100 entries,
can I just substitute an AppleShare 3.0 User & Group file on a System
7 Mac running ARAP?  Or is the format subtly different between Personal
AppleShare User&Groups files and AppleShare 3.0 User&Groups files?

Better yet, can I alias my ARAP-server macs to the User&Group file
on an AppleShare 3.0 server, and use that as my single-point-of-ARAP-
userid administration?

PS. Any news on a tool to transfer ascii files of userids into User &
Groups file format, so userids on AppleShare 3.0 servers can be maintained
from a centralized userid database?

--
Ben Schmidt,P.Eng   Network Applications, Bell-Northern Research
bschmidt@bnr.ca   FAX:613-763-3283  /* My opinions, not BNR's */
From: jean@biomac.univ-lyon1.fr (Jean Thioulouse)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: FastPath Manager under A/UX 3.0
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:22:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: macjt.jean-300792171745
Followup-To: comp.protocols.appletalk
Distribution: world
Organization: Laboratoire de Biometrie - Universite Lyon 1
NNTP-Posting-Host: macjt.univ-lyon1.fr

Hi,

    I have a problem running Shiva FastPath Manager v5.3 under A/UX 3.0
on a MacIIfx. On launching, the FP Manager quits with the following error
message:

Initial Protocol error - LAPOpenProtocol - error number -93

Error -93 is noBridgeErr : no router available.

I have no problem under MacOS.

Any idea of what's wrong ?
Thanks,
jean

Jean Thioulouse                              | e-mail:                    |
Universite Lyon 1 - Laboratoire de Biometrie | jean@biomac.univ-lyon1.fr  |
69622 Villeurbanne CEDEX - France.           | THIOULOU@FRCISM51.BITNET   |
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: Joe Niski <niski@ssd.intel.com>
Subject: Re: ARAP and User&Groups files?
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:01:30 GMT


>I have a bank of Macs acting as an interim ARAP server pool behind
>a PBX hunt group.  I'd like them to share a common User & Groups
>file to simplify administration.  Any user can end up on any mac in the
>hunt group, so the User&Groups files must be identical across all the
>Macs. I've had problems aliasing the individual User&Groups files all 
>back to one User&Group file - any tips and/or hints as to what I'm doing 
>wrong?  Or even: anyone doing this?  Then I'll know to keep trying.

a subject near and dear to my heart!  i have the same setup, an 800# into
the office, which rolls over to one of four macs.  Back in the early days
of System 7, an Apple Systems Engineer told me that using an alias to
reference a User&Groups data file on another machine wouldn't work,
something about the file already being open on the machine the alias
points to.  It would make maintaing multiple "servers" on a network
rather easy -- too easy, i guess.

>PS. Any news on a tool to transfer ascii files of userids into User &
>Groups file format, so userids on AppleShare 3.0 servers can be
maintained
>from a centralized userid database?

that makes so much sense, why hasn't someone done it already?  One
developer i recently spoke with at the MacTivity '92 conference (he makes
a AFP file server based on Intel technology) said Apple refused to open
up the User&Groups file format to him.  So, his 3rd-party AppleShare
server uses a proprietary file structure.

i recently had the chance to evaluate a Shiva LANRover, in the hopes of
improving our ARA setup; the LanRover is a very affordable box (~$700 US)
- plug a modem in one end, LocalTalk into the other, and you have an ARA
server for less than the price of a Mac Classic.  It worked just fine,
but (you guessed it), it's user & password file is not the same format as
Apple's, Shiva doesn't have a conversion utility, and users can't change
their own passwords over the network - password changes can only be made
by the administrator's application.  On the bright side, it will let you
download the same user file to multiple LanRovers.

On an even brighter side, Apple folks did some nice demos of OCE at the
Mactivity conference - just what we've been waiting for, real name
service for AppleTalk networks.  Let's hope someone ships a gateway for
NIS or Kerberos......


>Ben Schmidt,P.Eng   Network Applications, Bell-Northern Research
>bschmidt@bnr.ca   FAX:613-763-3283  /* My opinions, not BNR's */

---------------------------------------------------
Joe Niski                                          niski@ssd.intel.com
Macintosh (yes, Macintosh) Newtwork Admin.
Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Beaverton, OR USA
From: frank@cssc-woll.tansu.com.au (Marzano Frank)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: Selecting a laserwriter from Chooser
Keywords: chooser laserwriter printing
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:34:58 GMT
Organization: Customised Software Solutions Centre, Wollongong, Australia

In <1992Jul29.135723.4096@cssc-woll.tansu.com.au> frank@cssc-woll.tansu.com.au (Marzano Frank) writes:


>I am using a MacIIci running system 7.0. I am having trouble selecting a laser-
>writer on my local zone from the Chooser. In the Zone window I have heaps of 
>Zones from all over the country. When I choose a remote zone and select a 
>laser writer the laser writer is highlighted. Next time I look at the chooser
>the same laser writer is highlighted, as you would expect, and that's OK. 

>My problem is when I try to do the same thing to any printer on the localtalk
>or EtherTall net it doesn't stay selected next time I open the chooser. I have
>tried this from a mac that was directly connected to the laserwriter by a daisy
>chain and it still didn't work.

>Some things that might help are that there are 5 Zones, I am using a Webster
>MPG connected to Ethernet. I have 12 printers in the chooser window. Prints wor
>k to other zones that are through the MPG. I can use appleshare to login to a
>server.

>I'm at my wits end. My apple reseller suggested that there was a crook PhoNet
>cable, but that doesnt coincide with me being able to print to other zones.

Just an addition that might help I have tracked down that macs that I have 
install MacTCP have the problem. But it is 1 or 2 days after the installation.I
hope that jogs someones memory.`

Please mail me if you have any suggestions.

Frank Marzano
Lan Administrator Telecom Australia Customised Software Solution Centre 
Phone 042-211123			Wollongong
Fax 042-291021	International +61 42 291021
e-mail: frank@uranus.cssc-woll.tansu.com.au
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk,comp.sys.mac.comm
From: m16547@mwunix.mitre.org (Arthur Gorski)
Subject: Re: IIg and PrintMonitor??
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:18:01 GMT

gary@muvms3.bitnet (gary's news) writes:

>A user on campus has replaced a LaserWriter NTX with a IIg.  The laserwriter
>is connected by localtalk to a Mac IIsi which is running the Apple Internet
>Router.

>The NTX provided acceptable response when the print monitor was actively
>processing the print file, but the IIg seems to take an enormous amount of
>time to process a print file in the print monitor.

>What could be the problem??

Zapf Dingbats is not included in the ROM on the IIg.  If you're using this
font, it must be downloaded from the computer.  Bad news.

Also, the IIg is a real RAM hog.  Make sure you've bought extra SIMMs!  At
least they're standard  SIMMs this time. 
--
email:  agorski@mitre.org        Arthur M. Gorski        (713) 333-0980
snail:  The MITRE Corporation, 1120 NASA Road One, Houston, Texas 77058
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: rrwood@uuisis.isis.org (Roy Wood)
Subject: How to set up multiple zones on single physical network?
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:05:41 GMT

Has anyone ever tried setting up multiple zones on a single physical
network?  I know this is possible, but I don't know how to go about doing
so, and I'd like to hear from someone who is less ignorant than I am.

I know the idea sounds dumb, but I'm testing some software that I'm
developing, and I *have* to make sure it'll work with multi-zone networks,
and I'd like to test it out on the network here.

Thanks in advance,

-Roy

p.s. If you're responding to tell me "RTFM," please be sure to say which FM.
From: webster@bnr.ca (Brent Webster)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: CAP and dotted files
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:34:08 GMT
Reply-To: webster@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research Ltd

I'm using CAP 6.0 and I was wondering if I could disable the 
displaying of the UNIX dotted files (.login, .Xdefaults, etc).

---

*************************************************************
Brent Webster  (613) 763-4962 *  Project: cpething
   Fax: (613) 763-7742 [dept.]*    CoDesign tools and Modelling
    or  (613) 763-2626 [BNR]  *
                              *
Bell-Northern Research Ltd    *
P.O. Box 3511, Station C      *
Dept 9R12, MS103              *  E-mail:
OTTAWA, Ont, Canada           *   webster@bnr.ca  (InterNet)
K1Y 4H7                       *   webster@bnr.ca.bitnet
*************************************************************
#include <std.disclaimer>
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
From: cproto@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Computer Protocol)
Subject: Public Domain Appletalk ?
Summary: Is there a public domain Appletalk ?
Keywords: Appletalk
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:55:08 GMT


Hi there,
is there a public domain version of the Appletalk protocol suit
available somewhere? I heared Apple is selling a source licence
for about A$ 5000. I can't afford that sort of money. I would
appreciate any pointers.

Regards - Tibor Sashegyi (cproto@abel.cs.curtin.edu.au)
From: Jerrod@Lilly.Com (Jerrod T. Carter)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Number of nodes on Network
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:19:57 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Eli Lilly & Company

I have InterPoll and it is nice, but...

I'd like to be able to get a count of the number of nodes that are on a
network. I'd like something like this. I click the zone in which I'm
interested. This then displays the network numbers that are applicable to
that zone. I then click a network number and the app goes out and counts
the number of nodes that are alive in that zone.

Does anyone know of an app that does this? We have an in house
development team that is willing to build it for me, but they need some
xcmds to do it. They have one to get all the zones. They would need one
to get all the net numbers for a zone and one to to AARP or whatever
AppleTalk uses to check if a node number is being used. They'd just call
that last one for all 255 nodes in the network.

Please send mail directly to me (Jerrod@Lilly.Com) and I'll summarize to
the net.
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk,comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Luis Miguel Quinta <lquinta@animal.inescn.pt>
Subject: Gateway Software
Organization: INESC Porto
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 10:38:23 GMT

Two weeks ago I've read an article that mentions a Gateway software for
TCP/IP named PCRouter.
The question: where can I get it ?
I've tried much FTP Sites (PCRouter is shareware) spending lots of time,
desperately looking in all comm and net directories with no results. If
any of you netters can tell me something about it I'll be very
appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Luis
From: johnroc@cats.ucsc.edu (John Rocchio, (x3511))
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: LaserWriters and authentication
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:37:40 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: cheshire.ucsc.edu



We are looking into ways of integrating printing from Macs with Unix
based Kerebros passwords.  Inside AppleTalk (2nd Ed.) talks about
some kind of printer user authentication in Chapter 14 pages 10-14.

Does anyone know if anyone has implemented this idea into a driver?

John Rocchio
Univ of Calif, Santa Cruz
From: sms@gamma.dou.dk (Sven Meiborg Sorensen)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: ARA to ethernet Mac?
Keywords: ARA, ethernet, phase II, FastPath
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:23:15 GMT
Reply-To: sms@gamma.dou.dk (Sven Meiborg Sorensen)
Organization: DOU-CAMPUS, Odense University, Denmark

I asked about AppleTalk Remote Access (ARA):

> [...] when I dial into a Mac directly on the ethernet, I can only
> access AppleTalk services - _NOT_ TCP/IP services.
>
> Rumours have it that by cleverly configuring one of the FPs to act as
> "AppleTalk-to-IP" translator you can gain access to TCP/IP services as well.
>
> But how?

Thanks to Tom Watson and Christopher Davis for suggestions to turn
on option 7 in the FastPath.

Actually, I had tried this option - but with wrong settings of MacTCP. Your
answers convinced me that I ought to read the manual again about this
option and try it once more. And now it works for me too!

If others have trouble with ARA and multiple FastPaths with dynamic
IP-numbers they could try the following steps:

1. Turn on option 7 ("IP Forwarding for EtherTalk" under "IP Forwarding"
   in the Ethernet section) for any FastPath. Remember the AppleTalk
   zone name for this FP.
2. Dial in from your remote Mac with ARA to a stationary Mac directly on the
   ethernet. The zone of this Mac and its MacTCP settings do not matter.
3. Configure MacTCP with AdminTCP on the _remote_ Mac to the following
   settings:
   - LocalTalk interface
   - Same zone name as that of the FastPath in step 1. (This can only be
     done after step 2, as the zones only appear at that step)
   - Click "More" and choose the IP-number method of the FastPath (in my
     case "Server" which gives dynamic IP numbers from the FastPath)

- and that should be all. The changes in step 3 may force you to disconnect
ARA and reboot the remote Mac, but they should only need to be done once.

/Sven

Sven Meiborg Sorensen     Internet: sms@gamma.dou.dk
Senior Analyst
Odense University, Denmark
From: seaney@robios.me.wisc.edu (Steve Seaney)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Problems with Apple Routing Software
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:30:32 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: U. Wisconsin-Madison, Robotics Laboratory


We are using a IIci running 7.0.1 as a router between our IP network
and a short run of appletalk phonenet. The router is using the Apple
Routing software and a cabletron twisted-pair eithernet card.

Periodically the router is 'locking up'.  Upon reboot the machines
complains that part of the eithernet driver software is missing so
that the router can not be started.  If the machine is disconnected
from the power for a second (pull the plug) the machine reboots fine
(no complaints).

I'm at a loss as to what could be causing the lock-up and the strange
reboot behaviour.  Has anyone seen this behavior or have any ideas
what could be causing it?

Thanks a lot!
Steve
--
  seaney@cae.wisc.edu        *  University of Wisconsin - Madison             
******************************  Systems Administrator
  608 / 262-5328             *  353 Mechanical Engineering                    
  608 / 262-7463             *  1513 University Avenue                        
  608 / 256-4730             *  Madison, Wisconsin  53706
From: nigelw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)
Subject: CAP and ISC Unix
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:41:32 GMT

I'm looking at ways of connecting our Mac, Unix and DOS systems together,
and cap is one possibility, but has anyone made it run under Interactive
Unix, or would I be better off looking at another solution?

Nigel.
-- 
Nigel Whitfield - nigelw@ibmpcug.co.uk
Gay/Bi/Lesbian? Join uk-motss by mailing uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk