From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SJ Games Licenses White Wolf's Vampire
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:22:30 GMT
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University


	Alot of these posts should really be moved to frp.advocacy, I 
think, if they don't have anything constructive to say. That said, I 
would like to comment on what I consider advantages and disadvantages 
of running Vampire in  Storyteller and in GURPS. 

	Many people (myself included) have a problem with some of the 
basic mechanics of Storyteller as being unneccessarily time-consuming, 
and unneccessary to arbitrate. There is poor organization, and poor 
consistancy between different systems (an excessive number of mechanics 
to do the same thing). 
	However, I do not think there is anything wrong with the stereo-
typing in Storyteller, and consider it no different than, say, the 
stereotyping in Fantasy Folk. Both human and Kindred society have prejudices 
and stereotypes, and to remove the Kindred 'races' from the background, and 
attitudes regarding them is to remove a major, and interesting aspect to 
the background, IMO. 
	If you allow anyone to design whatever attributes they like without 
regard to the distributions of those attributes in Kindred societies, then 
you are divorcing the reality of clan ties from the game. 

	Furthermore, the 'stereotyping' of conscience and humanity are the 
psychological effects of the vampiric condition, which are integral to the 
Embrace. To reject impositions on the psychology of vampires is to say that 
vampires act just like humans do - which is wrong. 
	In GURPS, you would make up new, required mental disads for Vampires 
which amount to much the same thing. 

	Among my reservations concerning GURPS Vampire is that it will be 
poorly integrated, with alot of rules in the sidebars and rule options which 
the GM will have to mull over: like Supers, Martial Arts, and Psionics. This, 
plus some of basic complexities required by the background, might make GURPS 
Vampires even more poorly organized than the Storyteller version. 

	Vampire is already plagued by messy mechanics, and I have sneaky 
suspicions that the GURPS version will be either lose much of the flavor of 
Vampire, or be more messy. 

Solipsist at Large <IK20001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>Further, every one assumes you will buy into the background.  GURPS Vampire
>will interface with GURPS Fantasy (workable magic rules :-), GURPS
>Cyberpunk, GURPS Swashbuckler, et cetera.  

	Well, GURPS Magic might be slightly more 'workable' than the various 
Storyteller magic systems, but it is also generic, vanilla-flavored, and 
boring and comes across as such in play. I bear no great love for the 
mechanics of the Storyteller systems I have seen (Werewolf in particular), 
but at least they were trying. 

<comment on compatibility of GURPS B&B> [deleted by accident]

	Well, while I understand the tongue-in-cheek nature of the comment, 
GURPS B&B is *not* compatible with normal GURPS, as I understand it. 
Certainly the stat scales are different. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "You don't need a weatherman to know which
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | way the wind blows."
Columbia University         |                             - Bob Dylan
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc