From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Southern Baptists Ensuring Orthodoxy
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:45:34 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <Sep.15.02.25.54.1992.23970@athos.rutgers.edu> kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes:
>In reply to an earlier article on this topic, Richard Pitts wrote a 230-line
>article, most of which appears to be my own text.  I waded through some of it,
>so here are comments on the central question:

To be frank, Mr. Provine has the proclivity to state what others have 
said and not quote the article.  I'd have to go back and look to see
how many lines I wrote in RESPONSE to Mr. Provine's post.  The nature of
Usenet yields itself to responding to another's post and so to include the
original post, which, as I said, Mr. Provine tends not to do.  I did not
remove Mr. Provine's header, however, I did substitute the '>' with another
character, probably a '|', because my mailer requires more new lines than
old and sometimes one needs to retain more than they add.

>> I ask, what do the moderates want to teach/do that is so precious to them 
>> that they put up the fight to keep doing it?
>
>The same thing that Martin Luther wanted to do: think.

We do think, but that doesn't mean we don't have some essentials.  Example,
if Christ did not rise from the dead, then we are living our life in vain,
for that is a pivotal point of the gospel.

>I am not Roman Catholic because I do not believe that denominational leaders
>are infused with hocus-pocus Infallibility.  If some church leader makes a
>claim, I expect to see it backed up with evidence and arguments.  The current
>moves by the conservatives in the SBC are attempts to subvert my right to ask
>for such evidence and arguments.  If I don't agree, then I'm no good.  It does
>not matter whether they can prove what they say or not.

You obviously have the right to ask, for you do.  However, I would ask you
"what do you use as your basis for finding your answers?"

>I oppose this desire on the part of men to establish binding creeds.  On some
>issues, I agree with the conservatives; on others I don't.  I oppose the
>creeds in both cases.

If these creeds are held as Scripture, I would agree, for they are not
and should not be, but they can be and are the current understanding of
Scripture - some beliefs will not be changing.  Baptist are not in general
a creed quoting congregation.  Not that we don't believe what the creeds
might say, but we don't have ones we quote, per se - Is your experience 
different?

>Here is one basic example: Inerrancy.  I believe that the doctrine of
>Inerrancy is mostly meaningless; to the extent that it means anything, it has
>nowhere near sufficient evidence to support it; and even if true, it is
>largely useless.
>
>The people who espouse and insist upon Inerrancy have never produced an
>argument that held water.  To keep the s.r.c. flames down, I'll refrain from
>passing along my specific opinions about the kinds of `arguments' that
>Inerrantists usually use to support the belief.  Suffice it to say that I do
>not think much of these arguments, and I consider Inerrancy a doctrine with
>no reasonable support.

Then what do you use as your basis for testing, since the Bible is so error
prone, as it seems to be so evident in you strong rejection of Inerrancy?

Oh, could you pick a specific doctrine, that you believe Inerrancy imposes
upon you that is hampering your free will?

LET ME ASK MORE DIRECTLY - WHAT SPECIFIC TEACHING(S) IS PUT UPON YOUSELF
OR OTHERS BY INERRANCY THAT SHOULD NOT BE OR WITH WHICH YOU DISAGREE????

>...
>I will not remain with a bunch of Southern Baptists who want to be Pope.  If

Here is where you overstep, I believe, they do not preach themselves as
Pope, but they preach the Authority of the Scriptures and we all have Bibles
unlike some authoritarian groups, correct?  The priesthood of the believers
is still here, despite some of your claims otherwise, and the self-rule of
Southern Baptist Churches is still there - I again ask, if the having the
name of 'Southern Baptist' is so important, then conform, it it is not and
you want to believe something else, as an individual or as a church, you
are free to do so - just don't ask a denomination to support it or then find
one that will.  Paul preached strongly against just believing everything,
rather he said 'test all things' - what do we use to test them?  "THE
THINGS THAT ARE WRITTEN."

>that is where they are going, they will go without me.  Maybe it's wrong for
>me to oppose men who claim they are infallible; maybe it was wrong for Martin
>Luther.  However, as has been observed, Paul did specify situations in which
>one should break fellowship with others.  Those who teach unsound doctrines
>(and I consider Inerrancy unsound) do fit one of those situations.

What does it contradict?  Again Paul said in 1 Cor 4:6, that we should
UNDERSTAND THE SAYING "DON'T GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN."   Ecc. 12:12 also
tells to learn from the COLLECTED sayings.  Most, if not all, of the OT
was well defined by the time of Christ and Peter lumped Paul's writings
in with the collection that is called Scripture.

>Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
>"But if you wish to discuss this question then you must leave room for surmise
> and differences of opinion, as I do.  Do not make your own ideas into
> articles of faith as that abomination at Rome does.  For then your faith may
> become a nightmare."
>             -- Martin Luther, _Defense and Explanation of all the Articles_

Paul took a harder stance:

   2 Th 3:14   If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take
      special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may
      feel ashamed.
   Titus 3:10   Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
      After that, have nothing to do with him.
               -- The Apostle Paul

We aren't to make our OWN ideas articles of faith, but the articles of faith
are to stand tall - WHAT DID MARTIN LUTHER THINK OF INERRANCY?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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