HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Is the Rialto censored?
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:47:45 GMT

In article <MAILQUEUE-101.921222105332.576@saturn.uark.edu> PAULB@saturn.uark.EDU ("Paul A. Byers") writes:
>I sent a post responding to Sir John Theophilous about Calontir
>shields. It also mentioned that I have noticed lots of Racism and
>Sexism in the SCA. (almost exclusivly against White males.) and the
>poist just seems to have vanished. I post a 'hello, anyone hear me.'
>and I get 13 replys in 2 hours. What gives. Is the Rialto gone PC?

To the best of my kowledge there is no way to effectively censor the
net.  Having said that, let me note that every message is subject to
the vagaries of an uncontrolled network run by a myriad of entities.
A single failure point could produce the same effect for a period of
time.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kleber@husc11.harvard.edu (Gwydden)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Midrealm Crown Policy
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:20:43 GMT

Quoth Bertram:

> In the Middle Kingdom entering Crown Tournaments is restricted to
> members of the Chivalry plus others on an "invitation only" basis.
> I believe, though I'm not sure and would welcome confirmation or
> contradiction, that the Midrealm's policy for entering Crowns is
> the most restrictive in the Known World.
[...]
>  Does the Middle Kingdom's current 'invitation only' Crown 
>  Tournament policy provide a benefit to the Midrealm that
>  could not also be gained by setting some sort of 'minimum
>  level of SCA activity/experience' needed to enter Crown,
>  as many other Kingdoms do?

I vote "yes", but probably to a different question than you were asking.

The philosophical questions of whether you get better kings with the
Midrealm's system are open to debate.  But from a re-creational point
of view, I like the Mid's system because it stays *within* the medieval
aspect of the SCA.  Requirements which make reference to "amount of time
active in the society" or "number of events attended" inherently refer
to mundane aspects; a tournament "open to the chivalry and others invited
by the Crown" is something my persona can understand as well as I can.

(The fact that the invitation would be to fight for the succession to
the throne may not be *medieval* in origin, but it certainly stays within
the *re-creational* aspect of the SCA)

I admit that sometimes we need to mention the mundane side of things--
the membership requirement for Crown, for example, or even the East Kingdom
Law forbidding flash photography during court (which Arval, bless his soul,
always announces *before* the royalty process in).  But when either will do,
a rule my persona can be told makes me much happier.

ps- Justin raised a related issue at the recent board meeting when he
pointed out that concepts like "membership requirement for registering
arms" cross over the two levels: your mundane self must send money to
a mundane organization before your persona may be armigerous...

--Gwydden Lawen                           I don't have an overactive
  Borough of Duncharloch, Carolingia      imagination... I have an
--kleber@husc.harvard.edu                 underactive reality...  --EG
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: On the Nature of Armor ...
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 03:05:08

 TP> As a final note, I posted a few days ago about 
 TP> inauthentic intrusiveness, 
 TP> attemting to explain a bit of these feelings from anotherr viewpoint.
 TP> However, there has been no response to that post, and I don't remember
 TP> seeing it.  Did anybody else see it?  No comments?  
 TP> Or am I on everybodiess
 TP> kill file by this point? *weak attempt at humour*
 Good Thomas, may this missive find you well....
   Ummmm, I have been away for several days, and do not specifically 
 recall the post to which you refer.  I believe I may well have read, 
 but I have oft noted the requests to limit bandwidth usage.  Thus, I 
 do not reply when my reply is but "Yea, verily, yea".  Also, I find 
 e-mail from our BBS painstaking and nearly as bad as writing a letter 
 in longhand.
    I beg of you, good sir, do not let a churlish missive drive you forth  I do appreciate your efforts.  You wouldn't care to move to Ansteorra, 
 by chance?
    Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
p.s. I once dwelt in Atenveldt, and found all that you said to be true. 
     In sooth, though I said it not, I did feel that a large portion of 
     your difficulty in drawing attention to your works of hand was the 
     kingdom in which you reside.  Perchance we could draw Master 
     Ioseph into this conversation, as he dwells in Atenveldt.....

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: paul@sierra.com (Paul Stratton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic references...
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:15:13 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa

In article <james.724378993@wrs.com> james@wrs.com writes:
>parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>
>>I realise you mean well, but interlibrary loan, or even libraries
>>for that matter, are quite useless to the vast majority of
>>people.
>>Papworth, for example, is not in the collection (to my knowledge,
>>and I looked about for it once) of any public library in Alberta.
>
>So?  Get it from a library outside of Alberta.  It's been a few years since

Did you check the University?  By the way the Avacal Principality Herald
(Alberta) who just happens to live in Calgary, has a Papworth in her
posession (Reanna of Wheatenfield).  And guess why she has has that book?
Right, to help submitters!  Reanna would be happy to conult with people
on their devices using such research items as Papworth and the Society
Armorial and Ordinary.  If you don't ask us (THE heralds) we can't help
you.

Drogo the Forgetful,
Black Lion
-- 
Paul Stratton               -----   -----   -----    -----    -----    ------
Sierra Geophysics, Inc.    /          /    /        /    /   /    /   /     /
P.O. Box 3886              -----     /    /---     /-----   /-----   /-----/
Seattle, Wa.  98124            /    /    /        /   \    /  \     /     /
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:15:57 GMT


I must needs apologize for my previous post, good gentles.

I was responding to the posts by "Axel" (or "Uplink") dealing with the Barony
of the Lonely Tower, but had in fact missed his original one 'til I went back
and read through a thread I had previously been ignoring.

I wished to present the "other side" of the story, not realizing he had 
already, in his original post, made it clear that his interest was not in
what the SCA is, but only in what he'd like it to be.

My post was unnecessary, and I thusly apologize.

	In service,

		Ld Elwyn of Thornbury
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive Firearms
Date: 24 Dec 92 12:36:13 GMT
Organization: The Nibelungenlied Incorporated

In article <1hblskINN283@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:
>
>In a previous article, dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney) says:
>
>>RE: Primitive Firearms
>>
>>Golly, has everybody forgotten that Brother Berthold's dire
>>invention was certainly known in period, since the English used
>>cannon at the battle of Crecy?  And the final clashes in the
>>Hundred Years' War were settled by cannon -- the final fight in
>>Normandy, for instance, was won when a couple of French culverins
>>arrived and started potting the English from beyond bowshot.  (The
>>fight was a little more complicated than that sounds: the English
>>charged the cannon, the French infantry mixed it with them, and the
>>whole tangle rolled back onto the English lines.  With the archery
>>thus neutralized or their fire masked, the French cavalry closed
>>and delivered a decisive charge from melee range.)  The first brush

Yep, and the English C-in-C in the battle of Castillon, 1453, Sir John
Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury, was killed by an arquebus ball.

>>of the War of the Roses was also an exchange of long-range cannon
>>shots across the flooded Stroudwater (I think it was) before King
>>Henry VI put in an appearance and York's troops -- who had been
>>told that Henry was dead and they were enforcing the claim of the
>>rightful heir -- started to desert.
>>
>Not to mention things like the Hussite Wars, which were in period.  The
>Hussites, religious rebels in Central Europe, used firearms extensively
>from wagon-circle formations like in the Old West.  They chose firearms
>precisely because a peasant recruit could be taught how to use one in a few
>days, while to make a good man with knightly wweapons, the then theory was
>that you had to start with his grandfather.

Not to mention the battle of Nagashino, Japan (1580), which soundly put the
end of the Samurai era. The Takeda samurai were reaped down by the low-born
ashigaru rascal scum arquebusiers of Nobunaga, who were positioned in three
ranks beyond a palisade, which the proud Takeda samurai tried vainly storm
head-on (with disastrous results). The era of the Samurai nobles was gone
forever.



  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo FINLAND              ++ Edward III. All you need is an  ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like Duke of Alencon.     ++
From: Mike.Andrews@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Andrews)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA FGeography
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:35:00 -0500

Greetings from Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, of the Barony 
of Namron, in the Kingdom of Ansteorra (Norman, Oklahoma), 
Greeting to the esteemed Master Vuong Manh, 
Mandarin of the Second (?) Class 
 
Organizations: Waytes and Measures, a Medieval and Renaissance Consort 
 
To: dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney) 
 On 12-21-92 DICK ENEY wrote to ALL... 
 
 DE> SUBJECT: Re: SCA Geography 
 DE> 
 DE> As for in-period contacts with the Japanese, remember that the 
 DE> closing off of Japan and China was a reaction to the aggressive 
 DE> merchandising -- to put it gently -- of the Elizabethan and early 
 DE> Jacobean periods.  (Not just English, but these are the time- 
 DE> periods we're most likely to know offhand.)  The Japanese, as a 
 DE> f'rinstance, were definitely known as well as, say, the Tatars; the 
 DE> Spanish employed Japanese mercenaries in the Philippines during 
 DE> 
 
Respected Master, your words were truncated, no doubt by an unlearned 
gremlin somewhere in the works. Pray enlighten me by retransmitting them 
in their learned entirety. 
 
I have mislaid my copy of "The Anticalendar", but enjoyed it 
tremendously while I had it. 
 
Michael (Mike Andrews) 
(405) 364-0270 
429 Dakota, Norman, OK 73069 
 
... OFFLINE 1.42 * "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
- O. Wilde
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drachenwald Kingdom ideas
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:04:34 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1hvhfmINNh6a@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writes:
>If my memory of the tale of the first Knighting ceremony in AS 2 is
>correct, wasn't the title "Knight of the Laurel" used?  Not to mention
>that there were Laurels created for the "art/science of administration"
>(or some such) before the Order of the Pelican was established.
>
>Perhaps Hal or Dorothea (or maybe even Flieg) can fill us in on the
>particulars.

On the first point, I'll have to defer to My Lady Wife or to His
Grace--I wasn't there--or perhaps to Meisteren Teresia who did
extensive research on the happenings at that Event.

For the sencond point....  Yes.  Originally the Laurel covered All
Else and a number of folks were awarded the Laurel for Service.  At
least one--Mistress Geraldine of Toad Hall--asked to 'turn in' her
Laurel for a Pelican when the Board released the bird to the Kingdoms
on the grounds that her Laurel was for service and the Pelican was more
appropriate.  In her case, her efforts in cooking and teaching cooking
were deemed to make her deserving of the Laurel anyway--and she wound
up getting the Pelican in addition.

I should note here that the Pelican suffered in reputation in it's
early years.  It was created by the Board to be a *Board* awarded
Peerage--and that's how the first few were awarded.  Under pressure
from the kingdoms, first the Pelican was 'released' to the Kingdoms
(permitting the Royalty to award it) and then the Board got completely
out of the business of doing *anything* within the Medieval ambiance
of the Society.  For those of you who think wistfully of the Good Old
Days of AS-Single-Digits, please bear in mind that they were also the
Bad Old Days with fights as bad or worse than the ones we have now.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Query
Keywords: query, help
Date: 3 Jan 93 09:10:44 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum



One reason you will see little on alt.sca is that technically, this newsgroup
has been dead for years, and has been removed from most systems long ago.

The "real" group is rec.org.sca these days. (There are also several medieval
echos on Fidonet.) Otherwise there is a mailing list for heralds, and although
it is not for SCA, there is now rec.heraldry, which has many SCA members.

Moreach
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive Firearms
Date: 31 Dec 1992 07:57:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) says:

>In article <1hblskINN283@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:
>
>
>>Not to mention things like the Hussite Wars, which were in period.  The
>>Hussites, religious rebels in Central Europe, used firearms extensively
>>from wagon-circle formations like in the Old West.  They chose firearms
>>precisely because a peasant recruit could be taught how to use one in a few
>>days, while to make a good man with knightly wweapons, the then theory was
>>that you had to start with his grandfather.
>
>
>This effectiveness is the reason that the Hussites established the
>Kingdom of God on Earth which lasted to the present day in Bohemia and
>Moravia.  Or did it?
>
>Aryk
>
>
As a matter of fact, I don't know why the Hussites lost, or whether they
met with measurable success...perhaps someone not as
Central-European-history-challenged (PC! PC!) can help out here.  I do
remember reading that they did defeat quite a few enemies, and did hold out
for a while, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on any actual figures.

One trouble with wagon-fortresses as used by the Hussites and others
(Notably the Russians and Teutonic Knights, I believe; I'm not posting from
where my references are) is that they are extremely easy meat for any sort
of artillery.  They do provide dandy cover against small arms, and against
cavalry charges.
-- 
It is caffeine alone that sets my mind in motion.  It is through beans of
java that thoughts acquire speed, that hands acquire shakes, that shakes
become a warning...I am...IN CONTROL...OF MY ADDICTION!
---From the Minicon Graffiti Wall, 1989(?)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Scope of the SCA (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:20:35

n TW>      The Arthurian tradition was alive and well EAST of the Rhine as
 TW> well!

 *Sigh* Not content with getting your Christianity from Irish monks, you
 have to get your ideals from a Welshman as well? Is there no indigeneous
 German culture?

    Tadhg, Obelisk
    (P.S. Vashti says "Hi"...)
 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Keywords: SCA, Firearms, Events
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 04:26:09 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

I would recommend a separate event for period firearms, at a mundane 
firing range for safety.  Scores could be tabulated much the same as 
Inter-Kingdom Archery Competition.
 
Safety issues could be moderated by firing range officials, as in mundane 
marksman competitions.  This would resolve many issues at once.
 
Otherwise, I feel that major hazards could develop at regular SCA events. 

Lord Volfred
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:34:38 GMT


    Duncan Tiercel MacLeod wrote:

 SD> |>     I am wondering... does anyone have a "Period Calendar", as
 SD> |> it were, covering the popular Holidays/Observances/NoteableTime
 SD> |> Bits of Period?  I keep seeing posts ended with things like
 SD> |> "Written the 3rd Day before Michealmas";  it would be interesting
 SD> |> to have a list for things like dating scrolls and missives.

 SD> Ditto...

Saints' feast days are easy to find; stop by any Roman Catholic church around New Year's and pick up one of the calendars that local funeral homes distribute for free every year.

 SD> I'd also like to know what sources are used to answer the
 SD> original posting, and an additional question:

 SD> What are the monastic times of the day, and what do they equate to,
 SD> and why?

I presume you mean the canonical hours from the Liturgy of the Hours ... In order, from midnight, they are Matins, Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers, and Compline. They don't equate to much of anything specific, since the technology of timekeeping was quite rudimentary in period. Matins was what we used to call "oh-dark-thirty", and was to remind everybody that you didn't become a clerk regular in order to get a full night's sleep.  Lauds was either daybreak or just before, depending on the use. Pri




me, Terce, Sext, and None were supposed to be the "first", "third", "sixth", and "ninth" hours, and that could vary all over the map, again depending on the use. Vespers is on or about sundown, and Compline is usually halfway between Vespers and Matins (in modern times, about 10pm, at bedtime).

"Why" would take more bandwidth than I feel comfortable with at present....

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Midrealm Crown Policy
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:46:40

 DS> Historically, this restriction is in place because -- many years
 DS> ago -- a man with little experience in the Society made a REAL
 DS> mess of things.
    As you seem to be aware, this same problem has occured in other 
 kingdoms, early Atenveldt to be specific.
...
 DS>  Does the Middle Kingdom's current 'invitation only' Crown 
 DS>  Tournament policy provide a benefit to the Midrealm that
 DS>  could not also be gained by setting some sort of 'minimum
 DS>  level of SCA activity/experience' needed to enter Crown,
 DS>  as many other Kingdoms do?
         Since I hail from Ansteorra, I feel that the length-of-
 residence clause protects us just as well as the invitation, with less 
 potential for politics.  As an additional "safe-guard", there is a 
 ceremony where all non-belted fighters must be "spoken for" by a belt 
 (or is that just by a peer....nope, think it's got to be a belt).  To 
 the best of my knowledge, this accolade has been refused to none who 
 requested it (although there *have* been some long silences before 
 someone spoke up.....)
     OTOH, Ansteorra has pretty smallish crown tourneys.  We tend to 
 impress folks with the seriousness of entering, and most don't.  We 
 have not yet had the problem of needing to reduce the tourney size.
          Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 05:01:44 GMT

In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec30131637@potato.sedona.intel.com>, doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> 
> pa124548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
> ] In article <> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> ] >Recurves are period. They were the usual bow used by the
> ] >Turks and the Mongols, as well as other peoples.
> ]
> ] Could you document that?  The last time the issue was raised, one of the "
> ] purists" on this forum screamed bloody blue murder because to him, an "
> ] authenticist,"  a line of archers with recurves didn't "look mideveal."
> 
> Of course I can document it. Find any collection of paintings of Mongols
> from the period, and every other Mongol will have at least one obvious
> recurve bow with them. There are some archeological remains too. Recurves
> were all Mongols ever used, as near as I can tell. Longbows just weren't
> practical as horseback-weilded weapons, apparently.
> 
> Now it may be a little weird for, say, an English persona to have
> one, but Mongols did fight alongside some of the Crusaders (actually,
> a group of crusaders joined the Mongols in an attack on a Moslem force )
> in the first half of the 13th Century. So Mongolian recurved bows
> could have made their way back to England and France.
> 
> Mongol recurves were short little things, but some were said to
> shoot out to 700 yards !
> --
> Dennis O'Connor        doconnor@sedona.intel.com

Weren't recurves the national weapon of Korea, as well as being the royal
sport of the Turks?
                   Mackenzie

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca