HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu)
Subject: Re: Education
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:33:28 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <1992Oct2.195555.14114@morrow.stanford.edu> mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.084832.853@debet.nhh.no>, snf_av@debet.nhh.no writes:
>|> 
>|> 	If those talking about "lack of education" are speaking for
>|> themselves, I really agree.
>|> 
>|> Anca

I've already answered Anca I do so, as I had pointed out in my first
posting, but it's amazing how touchy people get on those matters of
general interest for merely personal reasons.

>
>This education issue pops out once in a while so why not add my own $0.02?
>
I'm already at $0.04...

>I think the Romanian education is broader in a classical sense than the
>American education.  However I don't think that this part of the education is
>too  important in forming a young person.
>
That's very debatable. But we could hardly open a debate here about what is
important in one's life.

>What a Romanian education does not teach you is the importance of
>independent thinking and the value of the different opinion.
>The flexibility to deal with opposing ideas and to tolerate and 
>respect them.  

Here I agree, and I've pointed it out in my answer to Virgil here in the
newsgroup. Yes, this is definitely a problem.

>To stand tall and proud when everybody says you are wrong but you 
>feel you are right.

As Thomas has said it before, there is a fine line here. It's marvellous
to have the dignity to stand up for your beliefs, but it might become 
embarrasing to constantly "stand tall and proud" for things which
are then proven wrong...

>The American spirit.
>
Paul has already said it, I don't know why Romanian schools should teach
the American spirit and not the Romanian spirit. 
But there is a different tragedy here. They weren't teaching the Romanian 
spirit either. Intolerance is NOT the Romanian spirit, it is the damned 
result of the self-righteous ideology which proclaimed itself "one and only"!

Moreover, quality of education was not only decreasing in the last years 
before '89, but territorial differences worsened the situation. A law
restricted people to go only to the highschool of the specialization they chose
closest to their home town (village). Of course, in big cities, this restric-
tion didn't mean anything... 
Living standards for teachers at the countryside were miserable. To keep 
them there, they were not getting a tenure in cities. There were many of
them reaching the age of retirement without a tenure ("suplinitori")...
This is how things were looking like those last years...

>I think the American education (up to grad school)
>is weaker in the quantity of
>knowledge and information the average student ingests.

I remember myself saying that the efforts of the average American highschool
student are less then in many other countries. I was (more or less jokingly)
corrected: "You don't know what effort it takes to keep off drugs, to stay
out of jail..."!

Until next time,
	Alin
From: busuioc@acsu.buffalo.edu (Anca I. Busuioc)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: newspapers/ magazines  in romanian (was: Re: Elections)
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:45:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur) writes:
>I read in CLIPA (a romanian magazie in LA) an interview[...]
>Sasha Bucur

	clipa?  interesting.

	i was wondering if all of you here in the states would
like to post the name of your favourite newspaper published in 
the u.s. in romanian. (  if you'd rather send e-mail, i can post 
a summary.)

	i get _micro_magazin_. now, there's got to be something
better than that!  also, some recently arrived friends from the
south asked me about this and i didn't know what to tell them.
(except that as students it's gonna be hard to come up with the 
money for a subscription...  hopefully they'll get net access)

	thanks in advance to everybody who volunteers some info,

	anca busuioc
	innocent abroad
From: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Post election speculation
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:08:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep30.200841.18544
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <BvD549.J7o@acsu.buffalo.edu> adumi-v@acsu.buffalo.edu writes:
>
>
>There are in your statement some very disputable claims. First would be
>the supposedly lack of education inherited from the last regime. On the
>contrary, I strongly believe that in the "golden era" one of the few good
>points was the education, even if it was tendentious. Many of us were 
>able to learn more in the time of "humanistic socialism" than were able 
>our peer americans (as an anecdotic example, one of my fellow american
>high ranked Ph.D. students, asked once if James Joyce is an american
>writer). That revolute society was consumming culture, lacking other 
>means of leisure.  
>
I'm sorry, I wish you were right in terms of statistics, but I don't think
you are. Fact is that, except schools in big cities, education was more
than a problem. And even there, when you talk about "tendentious", you have
to think about values like respect for the other's opinion et c.; were they
tought?

>Second, without being a populist, I feel that applying Blaga's adage at 
>this scale (the entire romanian society) is somehow unfair. In no way

Never in the world! He (Radu) just meant about 27%...

>I want to be impertinent, but what mysteries did your parents (or Radu's
>ones) reveal?  There was sometimes a nice polemic between C. Noica and
>G. Liceeanu referred as 'the baker's defense', which could stay as the
>basis of this argument. An elitist society is doomed to fail, anyhow.

You're not impertinent, but you don't convince me, either. Yes, if the
baker wants to stay a baker, he has that right. But IF the baker wants
to become an informed baker, he has that right, too. AND THAT RIGHT WAS
REFUSED TO HIM IN THAT MARVELLOUS "Golden Era"!

>
>The election results can be seen as a consequence of the political
>immaturity of the electorate, and of the new political leaders. We have
>to take into account the romanian mentality effect, too. La dolce far
>niente, the social Security, the relative 'prosperity and peace', and 
>other 'nice features' of the old times are still alive in the spirit of
>the above-middle-age people, and Iliescu and his fellows represent the
>missing link with those times. They (the a-m-a people) want some continuity,
>the other political figures are too unsure. They need some protection
>in this new wild world. 
>Personally, I fear more from worms like Corneliu Vadim Tudor, or Ghe. Funar
>than from the old fox Iliescu.

Some time ago smb. thought about Dracula, and I had fun with that. So, yes,
I sure agree with you here.

>But still, with a miracle, four years with Iliescu could be avoided.
>
>Auguri,
>
>Virgil 

Saluti, auguri a tutti,
	Alin
From: sgrama@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sorin Grama)
Subject: Re: Education
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:21:41 GMT

In article <oenUmny00WBMQ3Jndl@andrew.cmu.edu> ph20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Paul Grigore Hodor) writes:
>
>On 02-Oct-92 in Re: Education                
>
>There are many people I know who left the country when they were in
>middle- or high-school. They all have done better in school abroad than
>at home, due to the more advanced level of the Romanian education. (It
>is true they all came from above average town schools.) How about you,
>Sorin?
>
>Paul

I grew up in a little town (Victoria, half way between Sibiu and Brasov)
and we had a pretty good high-school (as my ex-colleague and present 
net reader Dorian would confirm; Right Dorian?).  
True, Romanian high-school education is a lot more advanced in areas like 
math/physics/chem or sciences in general.
It's very intense and contains a lot of material (some of which 
might be superfluous).
God, I still remember how every summer we were assigned math problems and
how we were encouraged to work from other textbooks and 'culegeri de probleme'
(the exact translation eludes me now).  Nothing like that here...
On the other hand, remember that everyone was required to learn all this
advanced stuff even though some people were not even remotely interested
in pursuing a career in sciences (I don't know in general, but our
high-school stressed a lot of math, physics and chem).  Well, for those
people, high-school was a waste.  The rest of the subjects offered were
either boring/stupid (ie. Political Science or Economics) or just mediocre.

Sorin

p.s.  My roommates still can't believe we learned about transistors 
in 11th grade.  I'll show them our physics text book.  Seeing is believing :-)


-- 
  _____    
 /  _____   Sorin Grama                   *  phone:    (614) 292-1434
 \_____  \  System Administrator          *  internet: 
    _____/  Ohio State Geology Department *  sorin@geo1s.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: marian@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Anda Calugareanu death
Date: 3 Oct 92 04:43:30 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

Hi to everybody,

I learned full of consternation and pain that Anda Calugareanu died few weeks
ago. She was 46 and I  belong to her generation. I keep  in mind the
beautiful moments as I was going to "Student House" (Casa Studentilor) in
Bucharest to see and hear Anda Calugareanu singing. It was in '63 - '68.
Someone told me she had cancer. I know she was a disident in the last years of
ceausescu's regime. On the other hand, there are rumors that many disidents
were irradiated by Securitate, without victims knowledge, of course. (See for
example the famous ceausescu's "Radu", described by Pacepa in "Red Horizons").
And it is known that a some dose of irradiation brings to cancer... Has
anyone details about the death of Anda?

Thanks,
Marian Dodu
From: pzelicof@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Paul Zelicof)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: JOBS?
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:31:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	I was wondering in general if there are any American companies
	who could hire electrical engineers for work in Romania.
	I'm graduating from Penn in '93 with a BS EE and so I'm into
	the job search right now. I was born in Romania (Birlad) and
	came here when I was just a baby, but I think I speak the
	language pretty well. I took a course in Romanian here, and so
	my reading and writing skills have improved.
Thanks for any suggestions.
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:38:00 GMT

In article <RLK.92Oct3202040@underprize.think.com>
rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

>while growing up.  Personally, I hope that if I have children they think
>for themselves and tell me that I'm full of it (in so many words, no
>less!) if they think that I'm wrong.

I'm not your kid, but as regards your views on Judaism, allow me to use
the words you reserve for them:

You're full of it.


What's "it"?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: holmes@opal.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: Help me keep this love alive...
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:02:19 GMT

In article <05w3RB5w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>I reject your notion that religion is what is keeping people apart.  I 
>agree with Professor Norman Roth of the Department of Hebrew and Semitic 
>Studies, University of Wisconsin, who insists that Judaism is not a 
>religion, it is a culture.  It has a common religion, to be sure, but 
>there is so much more that distinguishes Judaism as a culture.  When we 
>express concern over intermarriage, it is for fear of losing our culture. 
>Intermarriage cannot preserve this culture, and in fact destroys it.
>
>Todd (A Jew-dating kinda guy)

But is an individual obliged to adhere to a "culture" in the same way
that he may be obliged to adhere to a covenant with God?


-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: "SALEM" (Peace) means "MURDER"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:02:28 GMT

ldstern@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Larry Stern) writes:

>>Abraham - 35 - was strong enough to pass the 2 miles distance to his
>>farm. He was taking in a severe condition to the Afula hospital.
>>
>Very distressing news.  Please keep us posted on Mr. Cohen's condition.

I certainly agree- this is coming from someone who has been in the
emergency room of the Afula Kupat Holim hospital - not the best
place in the world....
Much better to be in Tel-Aviv or Haifa.
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail accepted                                  BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Perot Halts Engagement
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 15:03:11 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <1992Oct4.224749.17906@news.ysu.edu>, aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:
|> 
|> There was a discussion at our Sunday morning minyan that H. Ross Perot's
|> daughter was dating a guy. H. Ross found out he's Jewish.. and put a stop
|> to it before it got 'serious'.  
|>  
|> Has anyone heard that story?  Is there any documentation to prove it?
|>  
|> Thanks,
|>  
This story appeared in a New York Times Op-Ed commentary
on Friday, October 2.  Perhaps someone can pursue the
details from there.  

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:16918 soc.culture.polish:2959
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Fair play or bug
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:40:23 GMT


I noticed a problem which could occur as a result of not exactly fair
play or simply exists as a bug. Whenever people are trying to cross post
something from s.c.p. to s.c.j. like this time - it appears only
in s.c.p. If s.c.j. readers do not wish to read our posts it is
quite enough to say that - tricks and gimmicks are not necessary, 
I think. Until that problem is resolved one way or the other
I would like to ask s.c.j. readers not to cross post on s.c.p.
I think netiquette requires something like that.

A. Mazur
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: amber@jaguar.esd.sgi.com (Amber Denker)
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Reply-To: amber@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Entry Systems Division
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 19:44:26 GMT

I thought it also had to do with mourning the loss of loved
ones and others who have died.


--
Amber Denker
amber@sgi.com
415 390.1915
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, Geneva
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:04:41 GMT

roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>I don't follow.  Are you telling me that you visited Israel and didn't
>see Arabs and Jews living, working, doing business together?  That there 
>are no Arab members of the Knesset? That *all* Arabs are treated like those
>in Gaza?  
>
>Or what does your nasty little line there mean?  REad again what I said:
>*many* ofthem are assimilated.

Ok, then.  Also *many* Jews were assimilated in Poland.  The only
difference being that *nobody* in Poland is treated as those in Gaza.

>(------------------ personal invectives deleted -----------------------)
>                                                Look above: nowhere
>did I sanction the treatment of Palestinian refugees, of Palestinians
>in the occupied territories, etc.  In fact, I specifically excluded those
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>cases from my discussion.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's it, Roger Lustig.  You just repeated my point.  My suggestion
is therefore, before you continue to blame others for what they've
done to the Jews, why don't you express your opinion about what Jews
do to the others?  I think that would be only fair.

And btw, try to reply *without* personal invectives.  They will not
make me change my mind.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  My opinions are my opinions.  But facts are those of everyone.   |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|    Michal~ Szleper             |    "All you need is love, love,  |
|    (michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch)     |     Love is all you need..."     |
+--------------------------------+----------------------------------+
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re:  * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:42:15 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Oct2.122623.26063@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.070524.4767@javelin.sim.es.com>, JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) writes:
>|> 
>|>   How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?
>3.  The messiah is supposed to be a direct descendent of Ruth->David.
>	I don't know if JC was

Mary was.  But family inheritance is along the male lineage, and not
the female.  And according to Christian beliefs, JC was born of an
immaculate conception, making the father some divine entity, not a
descendant of Ruth->David.


-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:25:34 GMT


Of course, Faye Kellerman's mysteries are about a woman who is Orthodox, but
not Chasidic.

Also, the title (at least in the U.S.) of Jonathan Kellerman's mystery set
in Israel is _The Butcher's Theatre_.

I've always found it astonishing that such nice people (yes, I know them
personally) can write such brutally violent books.  

One might also check out the mysteries by Rachel Aldrich.  I haven't read
any of them yet but from reviews I've seen they sound like they have
significant Jewish content.  In her most recent, for example, she deals
with the agunah problem.

Miriam Nadel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:16:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.090607.27283@dxcern.cern.ch> michal@vsnmc1.cern.ch (Michal Szleper) writes:
>Roger Lustig writes:
>>> What about assimiliation of Palestinians ?

>>What about it?  MAny Palestinian Arabs are fully assimilated into Israeli
>>life.

>Ugh!  I never thought I'd see someting like that...  Is it the
>Jewish equivalent of denying the holocaust?

I don't follow.  Are you telling me that you visited Israel and didn't
see Arabs and Jews living, working, doing business together?  That there 
are no Arab members of the Knesset? That *all* Arabs are treated like those
in Gaza?  

Or what does your nasty little line there mean?  REad again what I said:
*many* ofthem are assimilated.

>>Of course, unlike Poland, Israel was set up specifically to be
>>a homeland for those who had been refused assimilation -- to the point
>>of their attempted extermination.  It was to be one more nation-state,
>>for a nation previously defined as such and specifically denied a homeland.
>>Israel was defined from the start as a special case, created under special
>>circumstances.  Whether the idea was fully a good one as it was carried
>>out remains debatable, but criticizing the country for not fully assimilating
>>its sworn enemies (many Palestinians call for the destruction of the State
>>of Israel, and have in the past used rhetoric like "push the Jews into the
>>sea").  So to ask aboutthe Palestinians is perhaps a bit irrelevant to
>>the issue of Poles and Jews over the centuries.

>Why not ask about Palestinians?  Is it an unpleasant subject for you?

Why not learn to read?  I have nothing against asking about Palestinians,
per se.  I just don't see the relevance of the matter to the issues of 
Poles and Jews.  That's the *second* paragraph of mine that you've 
misconstrued in a tendentious way.  Is it an unpleasant subject for *you*?

>Indeed it is better to talk about the "bad Poles" instead, isn't it?

When speaking of Poland, it certainly makes more sense to speak of Poles
than to speak of Palestinians.  Don't you agree?

>Your article is a very interesting one.  It shows perfectly all your
>philosophy.  

Ah.  I have  a philosophy.  How interesting.

>Anything may be good provided that YOU do it, anything
>may be bad provided that OTHERS do it to you.  In Poland we use to
>call this "Kali's morality".

Anything?  For the last time: LEARN TO READ, IDIOT.  Look above: nowhere
did I sanction the treatment of Palestinian refugees, of Palestinians
in the occupied territories, etc.  In fact, I specifically excluded those
cases from my discussion.  I even left open to question whether the
founding of the State of Israel was in fact a good idea.  Take off your
blinders and READ WHAT I WROTE before saying things about "shows perfectly
your philosophy."  Yours would seem to involve a lot of blindness and
presumption and prejudice.
  
Roger

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Followup-To: alt.messianic
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:38:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.070524.4767@javelin.sim.es.com> JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) writes:
>  I do not want to ask an intensely detailed question so I'll ask as simply
>as possible:
>
>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

I don't want to give an intensely detailed answer, so I'll give a short one:

   Bombed the final exam.  Midterm too.

And in the wrong newgroup -- note the followup line.


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Date: 2 Oct 1992 02:07:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu


Faye Kellerman ?  There's one called "The Ritual Bath", takes place
in a Mikva.

Leslie Kay