From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Old, Old Questions for Rob Strom
Date: 3 Sep 92 11:33:14 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Subject: (Old) Questions for Rob Strom
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:30:36 EDT

I said to Rob Strom:

BT>You said [the fact that animals brought for sacrifice had to be
BT>unblemished] was symbolic -- what is this symbolic of?

He replied:

RS>God's perfection, and our reverence for God.
RS>We bring God our most perfect things.

I asked him:

BT> ... to demonstrate our reverence for God, we kill an animal
BT>representing His perfection?

BT>How does killing animals demonstrate God's perfection and reverence?
BT>Here's your chance to help readers understand what you claim is "Judaism".

I'm still waiting for an answer.

****************************************************************************

BT>Psalm 2:7 shows Messiah is God's Son (compare Isaiah 42:2,6-7; 49:6-7).
BT>Proverbs 30:3-4 also speak of the Son of the Holy One of Israel.  Micah 5:2
BT>shows that the Messiah to be born in Beit Lechem is God.  Isaiah 9:5[6] shows
BT>this one born to us is God.  Isaiah 52:13-53:12 describes Messiah as being
BT>sacrificed for Israel and the nations, willingly laying down His life
BT>(53:12), accepting the death due us (53:10).  (49:7 also mentions that He
BT>was despised and abhorred by the nation; compare 53:3.)  Psalm 69:9 again
BT>shows the Son of David accepting the reproaches of those who reproached God.

RS>In Psalm 2:7 the author of the Psalm (presumably a king)
RS>refers to himself as God's son --- a frequent way
RS>of referring to a king.  The author cannot be Jesus ---
RS>the Psalm was written long before Jesus.  Furthermore
RS>the verse says "this day have I begotten thee".

BT>But it says "[the Lord] said to me, 'You are My Son, today I have begotten
BT>You.  Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations [goyim] as Your
BT>inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Your possession.  You shall
BT>break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
BT>Which historical psalmist king did this describe?

BT>You might want to compare Psalm 22:27-28 to see who the King is (who,
BT>according to Psalm 2, is also the Son).  You might also want to have a
BT>look at Isaiah 42 and 49.

I never saw any answer as to which king this was describing.

RS>Isaiah 52-53 say nothing about a sacrifice.  It
RS>says "he shall prolong his days" and "he shall
RS>see his seed".  Jesus was killed in the prime of
RS>life and had no descendants.

BT>Please explain what 52:13-15 and 53:10-12 are talking about, if not a
BT>sacrifice.

Still waiting for the explanation.

RS>Isaiah 53:13 says "he took off the sin of *many*" --
RS>not *all*.

BT>Do you mean 53:11?  Anyway, what's the point?  Are you admitting that
BT>One bore the sin of many?

Is that what you are admitting, Rob?

RS>Isaiah 49:7 refers to Isaiah himself, not to Jesus.

BT>Can you explain how Isaiah brought Jacob back to Adonai (49:5), restored the
BT>preserved ones of Israel (preserved through the galut, maybe?), and became a
BT>light to the goyim so that His salvation reached the end of the earth (49:6)?
BT>How did Isaiah fulfill 49:8-13?

Well, how did he?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
		Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried;
     /\		... He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was
____/__\____	crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being
\  / || \  /	fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.  All of us
 \/--++--\/	like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
 /\  ||  /\	way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on
/  \ || /  \	Him. ... By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will
----\--/----	justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities.
     \/							-- Isaiah 53
		Bruce Tiffany
Newsgroups: alt.messianic