From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:36:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


In article <9207221854.AA22524@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#In article <8ybmb#=.damiel@netcom.com>, damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos) writes:
 
[ deletions ]

#IMHO, there are three situations to consider when avoding being shot by
#cops: (1) you have the perp under arrest, (2) the perp has been shot, but
#is still alive, or (3) the perp is dead.
#
##1 premise: keep the gun holstered until you are forced to use it.

No, keep it in sight, and in your hand.  If the perp is alive, you may
need it.  But, hold it in such a way that you can (quickly) make it
obvious to the police that you are the good guy when they get there,
i.e., be ready to grab it by the barrel and spread your hands apart (so
that your fingers aren't near the trigger), or something similar.

#Sit (1):  have the perp standing 5-10 feet in front of you with his
#back to you and his hands in the air: if the local cops would shoot
#the gun holder in this situation, you need to move.

A better position to have him assume: face down on the ground, looking
_away_ from you, with both hands IN YOUR SIGHT.

#Sit (3): Approach the body, remove his weapon, retreat (with the weapon
#constantly pointed at the body) then holster the gun.  Criminals do 
#not approach dead or dying bodies to remove guns, nor do they retreat
#with guns pointed at a body: criminals shoot and leave.  Again, if the
#local cops would show up and shoot you under these situations, move!

If you KNOW that he is dead (just felt for a pulse, or the like), DON'T
touch the body.  A corpse cannot use whatever weapons it has on it, and
you aren't in danger.  Holster your piece, sit down, keep your hands in
sight, and wait for the police.

#Sit (2): This one should never happen -- if it does you should spend
#more time at the range.  In any case, keep your weapon pointed at the
#suspect (if you feel he may still be a threat) or holster it.

#Most important in all situations is to avoid the instinctive turn towards
#the arriving police cars.  Again, if your local cops will shoot you
#in the back because you have a gun, you really *really* oughta move!

I second this thought.

## secondly, in any and all self-defense shootings, you can absolutely count
## on being sued in civil court by the perp and/or his family. at the least,

#What the hell kind of pinko-commie place do you live in?  Arizona law 
#pre-empts the success of any such civil suit if the shooting was deemed
#justified by the police, the DA, the jury, or the judge.

Again, seconded.  But, I heard about one state without the kinds of
protections that Arizona has.  Seems that the DA and the judge went to
prosecute the citizen; they found him not-guilty to avoid a
double-jeopardy situation, and doing this would also make it impossible
for a civil suit to be brought against him.  (Sorry, but I can't
reference this as I can't remember where it came from; it might even
have been here on Usenet.)

Just make sure that the DA is trying to _help_ you....


## there will be a note made in the police records that you donned a badge.
## at worst, you'll be charged with impersonating an officer.

#That is quite likely to happen.

## much will be made of this fact in civil court. the prosecution will
## paint you as a "cop wanna be", mentally imbalanced, unable to leave
## law enforcement to the professionals, etc etc ad nauseum. its never a
## good idea to give the opposition something to work with.

#God I'm glad to be in Arizona!  Thanks for the posting -- I was just 
#beginning to get real irritated with the 108-110 temps this month.
#I'd rather sweat from heat than sweat from fear!

It is much easier to buy an air conditioner in Arizona, than to buy
relief from fear-caused sweat in many other places.  :-)
(Problem with Arizona (for me) is, not enough snow :-(  )

--
David Winters  
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu OR winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

          Illigitimi non carborundum.