HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Espen.H.Koht@dartmouth.edu (Espen H. Koht)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Hard times in Norway?
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:07:51 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Apr7.121003.8728@ipars.cts.com>
lyled@pnet05.cts.com (Lyle Davis) writes:

>         I was rather surprised to see a report on CNN this past Sunday from
> Norway wherein the reporter noted that Norway is also in the midst of a major
> recession, with unemployment at 8% (higher than the US's) and with a great
> many Norwegians losing their homes through foreclosure.

   Don't forgett that unemployment figures are arrived differently in
the US and Norway.  The US is notorious for: 
a) Under-counting 'bad' statistics 
b) Changing 'methods' of accounting to artificially make rates rise and
fall for political benefit.

  I'm not saying that the US is the only country that does this, but it
is something that shoudl be kept in mind.

Espen
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:34:54 GMT
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Originator: lhe@yang.sics.se

In article <11019@chalmers.se>, d9bertil@dtek (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>
>  Thanks for the information, but you must agree that they must have an 
>"amazing" customer service if one can get better information by asking the 
>net than one can get from Televerket!

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, it is very common that customer service
people know very little beyond the run-of-the-mill stuff.

To get an answer, you very often need to find the person that actually
*works* with the issue, not the customer service people, who do
nothing but customer service.

A true story from life:

Most Swedish banks have "transaction" accounts, where your sallary
goes. You can use cheques, ATMs, paycards etc. to get money from that
account. The interest rate on these accounts are very low. Then you
have savings accounts, with high (relatively) interest.

This means that many people have two accounts (at least) - one
transaction account and one savings account. By moving money between
these accounts, so that you never have more money on the transaction
account than you need for the moment, you get more interest, even if
you don't save the money.

I never understood why the banks don't have a single universal account
that could be used both for transactions and savings. Administration
of two accounts and moving money between them must cost the banks a
lot. I asked several different bank people (clerks) about this but
never found someone who knew.

Then one day, I was talking to a guy at the computer department of my
bank about an unrelated issue. He seemed knowledgable in general that
I got the idea of asking him about the accounts think. "Sure", he said
and told me why.

Well, there is the requirement that
the loans given by a bank (with the savings deducted) must not be
larger than 8% of the banks own capital. Money on transaction accounts
may not be deducted, since they are considered ephemeral. Thus the
split between transaction accounts and savings accounts....
-- 
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars P. Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Official Language Status
Date: 2 Apr 92 19:34:15 GMT
	<1992Apr2.053945.27069@jyu.fi> <10718@chalmers.se>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> "Bertil" == Bertil Jonell (d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se)

Bertil>   Are there <insert language other than Danish> universities
Bertil> in Denmark that gets government money? 

Nope. In fact, you would probably have to pass a test in Danish
language skills to be admitted to a Danish university.

Bertil> Does all Danish civil servants have to pass a test in <insert
Bertil> language other than Danish>?

Nope, unless the job somehow demands it (Uffemandens clerks and so on).

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: sundinKC@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: I desperately need lower taxes.
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:18:39 GMT
Organization: Organic Chemistry 2, Lund University, Sweden

The nativity in Sweden is such that the population remains the same. This
means that on average there is one child born per adult, and that this
adult (on the average) pays for everything it takes to bring up a child.

As I don't have any children I don't see why I should have to pay for a
child through high taxes. I have never seen him/her, and yet I have to pay
for everything from pre-birth check-ups to a university diploma.

I don't only have to pay for the child, I also have to pay the parents
90% of their salary during their 15 months off at the time of the birth.
I have to subsidise their rent, and I have to give them a child care salary
of about 1500 kr monthly (or how much is the barnbidrag nowadays) for them
taking care of their own child.
I also have to pay for the kindergarten, for the schools, Etc.

Lets say that I pay as little as 100,000 kr per year for that child I never
had. This means that I will have had to pay more than 2,500,000 kr by the
time he or she receives a Ph.D.

I think this system is clearly unjust, and that everyone should pay for
their own children. It is a too heavy burden on the rest of us to pay
for your children.

Unless I get children of my own in the future. Then we have better keep
the current system.
-- 
 Anders Sundin           e-mail: sundinKC@dna.lth.se
 Organic Chemistry 2             Anders.Sundin@orgk2.lth.se
 University of Lund              ok2aps@seldc52.bitnet
 P.O. Box 124            phone:  +46 46 108214
 S-22100 Lund, Sweden    fax:    +46 46 108209
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Who'll be the next American President?
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:21:03 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <1992Mar28.133003.14681@ipars.cts.com>, lyled@pnet05.cts.com (Lyle
Davis) writes:
>         I am undecided as to whom I will cast my vote for thought I tend to
> lean toward Ross Perot, a maverick businessman, non-politician, who recognizes
> that America's major problem presently is its economy and who I think may have
> the best chance at solving it before we go bankrupt or before insurrection
> sets in (which, again in my judgment, is not too far away if the economy
> doesn't improve dramatically and quickly).  

..welcome to the wonderful world of US Presidency campaigns... Watching this
slime-fest for 8 months now I'm up to my ears with the hoopla. Any elections
in Scandinavia are tupperware gatherings compared with the action over here,
nothing is holy, including digging for mistresses and silly youthful 
experiences everywhere.


Cheers!
Kent
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2587 soc.culture.europe:3492 eunet.politics:564
From: hans@iesd.auc.dk (Hans Huttel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: EC KILLS CHILDREN! (Was: Increasing amount of people against EU in Denmark)
Date: 3 Apr 92 13:45:41 GMT
	<1992Mar24.114118.5833@nntp.hut.fi>
	<1992Mar26.102841.7717@pcsbst.pcs.com>
	<ABRAHAM.92Mar27214038@loke.iesd.auc.dk>
	<1992Mar30.070157.14544@mentor.dk> <1992Apr1.111401.18664@odin.diku.dk>
	<ABRAHAM.92Apr2063831@loke.
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


In <ABRAHAM.92Apr2063831@loke.iesd.auc.dk> abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per
Abrahamsen) wrote: 

> Our current government has chosen to make Denmark competive (with some
> success) by cutting down on health expenses, lowering the wages,
> reducing the social security, etc.  That makes it relatively cheaper
> to produce goods in Denmark than in the other EC countries.
>
> The EC term for such a policy is "social dumping".  With the open
> borders in 1993, social dumping will be an even larger problem -
> unless EC is given the power to stop it.  That is (part of) what the
> union is about.  That is also why extreme right wingers like Thatcher
> (and Maersk) are against the union.

I assume that you are referring to the social charter, which the
British Tories successfully opposed for exactly this reason (they
think it amounts to pure socialism...). But the social charter only
puts forward a set of minimum standards which our country still
manages to exceed. I doubt that we as Danes will benefit from the
social charter. Rather it might make it more difficult for Danish
unions to negotiate better deals because of the precedence that the
charter is setting.


- Hans


--
Hans H{\"u}ttel, Office E1-111                   -   hans@iesd.auc.dk  
Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Fredrik Bajersvej 7E, 9220 Aalborg {\O} DENMARK - North Jutland is for lovers.
From: nareid@imf.unit.no (Helge Nareid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Looking for Freia (yum,yum)
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:54:15 GMT
Organization: The Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim

In article <barbara.703236042@gorgon.forut.no> barbara@gorgon.forut.no (Barbara Wasson) writes:
>In <1992Apr10.171748.4943@ac.dal.ca> hansenk@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>>I'm looking for the address of Freia Choclate. 

>Freia A/S (A/S means Inc.)
>Joh. Throne Holsts Pl. 1
>N-0566 Oslo 5
>Norway
>
>Fax: +47 02 630940
>or   +47 02 631081

I think the correct numbers here should be :
       +47-2-630940
       +47-2-631081
(you skip the leading zero in the area code when you call Norway from abroad)

Another big Norwegian chocolate/sweets manufacturer is :

Nidar Bergene a.s.
Bromstadveien 2
N-7045 Trondheim
Norway
Telephone : +47-7-583000
Fax       : +47-7-917828

Try their "Stratos" milk chocolate, or "Laban" seigmenn (seigmann is 
untranslatable (someone is sure to attempt it, anyway ... :-))

- Helge



--
Helge Nareid                             E-mail :    nareid@phys.unit.no
SINTEF Applied Physics                   Phone  :    + 47 - 7 - 59 34 18
Trondheim, Norway                        Fax    :    + 47 - 7 - 59 34 20
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Skolpeng
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:21:21 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <hberg.71@polisci.pol.umn.edu> hberg@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg) writes:

  [about skolpeng]

>This is the same idea as the voucher system that the conservatives in the US 
>are trying to push through.

  Surprise surprise, in Sweden it is "pushed" by Moderaterna (the Moderates,
usually called conservative, but in reality spanning from the center of the
Republicans to the right wing of the democrats with some libertarians mixed 
in), Folkpartiet Liberalerna (The Liberal Peoples Party, stretching from the
right wing of the democrats to the center of the democrates), Centerpartiet 
(the Center party, a farmers special interest group), Kristdemokratiska
Samlingspartiet (The cristian democrats, spanning from center democrats to 
the right wing of the republicans) and probably by Ny Demokrati (New Democracy,
spanning from to the right of the republicans to the center of the democrats, 
with a lot of looneys and libertarians mixed in). The closest thing to what
you describe is probably the xtian democrats, but they are a close to 
insignificant party due to their size.

  I've found some new data on how the proposal debated in Stockholm (a lot of
local counties want to jump the gun): All schools run by the local government
get their real-estate payed for by the kommun (county). County schools in
"socially burdened" areas get extra special subsidies. They also get 100% of
the voucher of each pupil.

  Private schools get 85% of the voucher, and perhaps some subsidies from the
kommun, if the kommun feels like it and have money to spare (Kommun with 
money to spare? Don't make me laugh!).

  Does this seem like a nasty conservative proposal?

>Parents who do not send their children to 
>public schools (where horrible-liberal humanism is taught) would get 
>vouchers from the state that could be used to pay the tuition in Good 
>Christian Schools.  We horrible-liberals regard this as a very regressive 
>idea.
  
-bertil-, hemsk ateist och liberal, tenderande mot ny-liberal.
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:2666 soc.culture.europe:3554 eunet.politics:587
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of EU (was Re: Increasing EU opposition in Denmark)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:23:12 GMT
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <1992Apr6.161530.14576@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gd8f@kelvin (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:

> The civil liberties are not any worse in the US.

What about phone tapping, including the recent proposal circulating of
requiring phone networks to have taps built in, or the
ant-cryptography bill?  What about civil forfeitures?  "Curfew"s?
Record store owners sued for selling records?  Heavy FCC regulations
on the contents of broadcasts?  The police trapping people into
committing crimes?  All of the War on Drugs?

Granted, it doesn't immediately follow from big government -> civil
liberties violations, but it does seem to have a connection.  For
example, in USA the central government couldn't have implemented the
stuff it has without gathering of power to itself (which the
Constitution was spefically written to hinder, by the way).

//Jyrki
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: You have to be rich to get the Authorities to listen.
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:56:45 GMT
	<10881@chalmers.se>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> "Bertil" == Bertil Jonell (d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se)

Bertil>   I blame the telecom company for trying to sell this idea to
Bertil> various local and national authorities and departments using
Bertil> the arguments that it will bring in extra income ...

What's wrong with trying to sell a product? They can't *force* it on
anyone, can they? 

Lars> Not good. One the other hand, if the public authorities (as well as
Lars> anybody else) are using the 900-number service to provide *new*
Lars> pay-to-use services, I would see this as a Good Thing.

Bertil>   I don't see that happening. What I'm seeing is that they
Bertil> will put price tags on old services as soon as it becomes
Bertil> technolgically feasible to do so.

That's bad. Sounds like the Danish government: Lower the service and
use the money saved to increase the taxes. But is it the telecom
company that is to blame. Isn't it just one example of many, i.e., a
general trend?

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: percus@scws6.harvard.edu (Allon Percus)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Hard times in Norway?
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:37:46 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Apr7.121003.8728@ipars.cts.com> lyled@pnet05.cts.com (Lyle Davis) writes:
>        We were, of course, aware of the economic malaise that has swept
>America but there was a tendency to think that Scandinavia in general and
>Norway in particular was just cruising along with the economy and all in a
>healthy state...

I don't know who is "we" but if it refers to Americans in general
then let me distance myself from "we."

As far as I know (and I am no expert on these things) the whole
industrialized world is in a bit of an economic slump right now
and I wouldn't have guessed that Scandinavia is any exception.

[Perhaps "we" means Californians? :-) ]

Allon Percus
From: rhtfest@cs.vu.nl (Festen RHT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Swedens pros and cons
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:00:17 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam

This is a request to Swedes and people who lived in Sweden.

I am trying to construct me a correct picture of what Sweden is
like -the land, the people and everyday life. I live in The Netherlands
and besides the over-optimistic, allways sunny promoting stuff
there isn't that much about Sweden. I've read some fairly good books,
but I still don't have a 'feeling' about /picture of it. I know
that not all Swedes are blond and civilized, etc.
  The 'problem' is, that I have never been to Sweden and I won't be
able to in the near future (I will later). Don't ask me "why Sweden".
That is what I am trying to find out.

  I would like to know what you like AND DISLIKE about Sweden and
what you or people around you do that YOU consider typically swedish
(or nordic).
  And maybe: what do you think of your neighbouring countries and
what about Holland. (This says a lot about yourself, thats why.)

I hope that the fact that I am a (computer-science) student and your
'conception of the world' is probably compareable with mine, will make
the country-difference in any answer (if there are any) more
distinguishable. That's why I think it is appropriate to post this
here.

Well, this question turned out to be quite a story. Any answers?

                               Ruisch.
--
~~~~~~~~RHT Festen, Amsterdam, The Netherlands~~~~~~~~~rhtfest@cs.vu.nl~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
From: cwinkler@oregon.uoregon.edu (Celia Winkler)
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of EU (was Re: Increasing EU opposition in Denmark)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Oregon
Date:  8 Apr 1992 21:47 PDT  

In article <1992Apr7.132312.23755@nntp.hut.fi>, jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes...
>In article <1992Apr6.161530.14576@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gd8f@kelvin (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
> 
>> The civil liberties are not any worse in the US.
> 
>What about phone tapping, including the recent proposal circulating of
>requiring phone networks to have taps built in, or the
>ant-cryptography bill?  What about civil forfeitures?  "Curfew"s?
>Record store owners sued for selling records?  Heavy FCC regulations
>on the contents of broadcasts?  The police trapping people into
>committing crimes?  All of the War on Drugs?
> 
>Granted, it doesn't immediately follow from big government -> civil
>liberties violations, but it does seem to have a connection.  For
>example, in USA the central government couldn't have implemented the
>stuff it has without gathering of power to itself (which the
>Constitution was spefically written to hinder, by the way).

Actually, from what I've seen there's a tension between idealizing
a strong vs. a weak central government.  Prior to the Civil Rights
movement, the civil rights of individuals (mostly African Americans)
were violated in some awfully brutal ways.  If it hadn't been for
the federal government stepping in, it may be (although people
debate this) that lynching would still be a popular Saturday night
activity in some states, and voting rights would continue to be
problematic.  

For many years, oppressed people looked to the feds to step in on
their behalf.  It was the Supreme Court who came forth with rulings
that condemned torture and coerced confession.  Thus, while some
states might be MORE progressive, the feds assured, for a while
at least, that ALL states would adhere to a minimum standard.

I don't think you can say that a strong central government is
ALWAYS bad; a weak central government, where fascism or racism
is rampant in some states, may be just as bad.  The Constitution
itself reflects this tension, because while it places limits on
the power of the federal government, it also grants power to it,
residing in that phrase "provide for the common defence and
general welfare of the United States."  For the last 50 or so
years, this has been interpreted very broadly.  But this is not
to say that invasion of the people's rights by the federal
government was not going on long before this interpretation.

The issue might be more one of who has access to what technology
(in some cases), or law enforcement agencies, or policy making
bodies, or the ca$h.  In many cases, that's the feds.  In many
others, that's corporations.  

The tension, then, it seems to me, works itself out on the
battleground of politics (and of course economics).

Celia
From: gtr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GLEN TORLEIF RYEN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Fighting Racism?
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:05:41 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>Your example is pretty grotesque, though.  When the immigrant children are
>admitted to Sweden, the National Anthem is also their anthem.  The principal
>probably has some kind of guilt complex...  (I must admit that I don't know
>the words to the Swedish National Anthem beyond "Du gamla, du fria,
>du fj{llh|ga nord..." -- does it contain any reference to the "Aryan race" or
>anything else that might justify the Principal's reaction?)
>
>Yngve

     I know both the verses in the national anthem, and none of it seems even
remotely offensive to me (I'm American).  In fact, I can't see how lines like
"Jag h{lsar dig v{naste land upp} jord/Din sol, din himmel, dina {ngder gr|na"
could offend anyone.
    For those out there who don't speak Swedish (poor soles), I have the
following translation of the first verse that I got from a tourism book:

        Thou ancient, thou freeborn, thou mountainous North,
        In beauty and peace our hearts beguiling,
        I greet thee, thou lovliest land on earth,
        Thy sun, thy skies, thy verdant meadows smiling,
        Thy sun, thy skies, thy verdant meadows smiling.

    Granted it's not a perfect translation, but its close enough and its
    poeti.  Anybody see anything offensive?  Anybody know if there's anything
offensive in the next few verses (I don't know how many there are in total).

Glen Ryen
From: euaaen@eua.ericsson.se (Anders Engwall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Handball
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:14:17 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

Helgi.Hjalmarsson@cs.cmu.edu writes:

>I just want to post the ecstatic outcome of the B-worldcup competition
>in handball, which was held in Austria a short time back. 

> 1) Norway
> 2) Austria
> 3) Iceland
> 4)  Switzerland

Congratulations!

How come Iceland is so good at this particular sport? Other coutntries
of the size (roughly) of Iceland, like Luxembourg or Malta,  have never
really made an impact in sports, esp. not in team sports.

>Helgi Hjalmarsson
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall					Phone: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, [lvsj|, Sweden		Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
"Jag tackar spriten, som r{ddat mig fr}n idrotten" -- Arthur \sterwall
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Engwall					Phone: +46 8 727 3893
ELLEMTEL Utvecklings AB, [lvsj|, Sweden		Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
"Jag tackar spriten, som r{ddat mig fr}n idrotten" -- Arthur \sterwall
From: rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Who'll be the next American President?
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:16:09 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA

percus@husc9.harvard.edu (Allon Percus) writes:
>In article <1992Apr09.035334.110072@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> gtr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GLEN TORLEIF RYEN) writes:
>>P.S.  I apologize that this post isn't Nordic in nature, but I had to respond
>>to what I considered an insult to me and every other Eagle Scout in the world.
>
>The WORLD???!!!
>
>The "Eagle Scout" sounds like a purely American thing to me and, with
>absolutely no offense or insult intended, slightly on the childish side.
>


     There are Boy Scouts worldwide, Allon, so the statement does have some
merit.  However, it was my experience as a scout that those who made Eagle
were those who had fathers willing to spend every weekend helping you do it. 
So I'm not sure it's the accomplishment it's made out to be.

-Bob
rcf@pnet01.cts.com