From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Democracy
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:06:13 GMT

stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
: 
: No, read more carefully the article after the title one.  

I did.  None of the following articles lend credence to your statement
that the Serbs aren't trying to perform ethnic cleansing.  In fact, there
are Serb POWs who tell of how they were *ordered* to rape and kill, or that
they would be killed.

Remember how you said to look to the leaders for how the war is being run?
Well, the leaders in the field want their soldiers to rape and kill
civilians in cold blood...

: 
: Also, I hope that journalist would go to Serbia and Serbian 
: territory to track women that were raped by the opposing side.

They probably will.

: The most interesting thing is that in the one of the article about 
: history of the rape in war they still mention German army in WWI 
: Belgium.  Well, that was proven to be the first known organised 
: P.R. lie, made to turn England public oppinion in stronger favour
: of the war against Germany! 

Yeah, and we KNOW how the German soldiers were really nice guys...  And
the Holocaust was just a PR lie...

: I do not see how any rape case could be normal or even "normal." 

You yourself brought up that "rapes are a consequence of war", thus that
rapes are a "normal" part of war.  That is why I enclosed it in quotes.
To use the above statement against me is just a personal attack.  Remember,
you brought it up as "part of war" in the first place.  See below for
what you wrote:

: >: And rapes occur in any war.  Pathological behaviour is not connected
: >: with only one side.  Again matter of better PR  relations.


: I am just saying that a lot of bad things are happening, on
: all sides, but for one or the other reason Serbs are the 
: most exposed.  Thus, there is a pressure to forget real causes
: of this war and do something which would be unjust!

No, you have been saying that the Serbs are getting a bum rap, and they
are "just exercising self-determination".  You have not been saying that they
are doing bad things.

: No, this is your claim based on propaganda.  There is something that is
: called innocent until proven guilty. 

So, why didn't the Serbs let the Red Cross in to inspect their camps, only
specific ones, the ones which the Red Cross WASN'T interested in?  Note
that they *never* opened up some of their camps...

: Also, I am quite sure that rate of prisoners that come out of that camps
: would be shown to be higher that percentage of German POWs that came out
: of certain American and British camps!

I wouldn't know.

: Closer to the present time, how many VK fighters survived being captured
: by Americans?  Were they in "death camps, " "death prisons," or
: the the whole country was turned into "country of death?"  

These are straw man arguments.  We aren't comparing camps.  What is
happening is deplorable, and shouldn't be happening, nor allowed to happen.

: >: Slovenes deny right for self-determination of Serbs.
: >
: >Unfortunately, Serbs define self-determination as destroying the Croats and
: >Muslims.
: 
: And Croatian and Muslim self-determination is destroying the Serbs.

Where are the Croats and Muslims destroying the Serbs?

: Slovenian self-determination triggered the domino effect, that 
: destroyed everything, the whole country, yet you support all of them, 
: except Serbs.  Man of high moral principles, no doubt!

Why, yes.  The wars the Serbs are waging in former sections of
Yugoslavia are almost unbelievable.  These ethnic conflicts didn't occur
on such a scale when the other peoples seceded from Yugoslavia, only when
the Croats and Muslims went for self-determination.

I have absolutely nothing against Serbs, except what they are doing to
the land and people of Yugoslavia.

How do you like their beautification project in Dubrovnik?

: No, they have much less money than both Croats and Muslims.  
: After embargo no company is allowed to work for them!  Also, they
: seem not to have realised the full importance of PR work.

Somehow, I doubt this.  The capital of the former Yugoslavia was in
Beograd, and this was a very bustling city.  Most of Croatia (from what
I remember) was farmland and tourist-oriented.


Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia