From: max@hitl.washington.edu (Max Minkoff)
Subject: Bound to cover just a little more ground
Organization: HITL
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:31:40 GMT


Howdy, net.friends! (and wheel.folk, if you're listening) :-)

I've got a bunch of feelings about this, some of them contradictory,
most unorganized, but I've just gotta share them.  I've been kicking
this thing around for a week now with Joe D, and am very interested
in the differing opinions regarding what's been going on both here
and there.  I'm in a somewhat bleeding edge communications technology
(virtual reality) looking toward greatly improving the communication
methods that we share here (no more phosphor dots!!), and I'm afraid
the wheel may be indicative of the future of the net (lord, I hope
not!!).  I'm hoping we can _all_ continue to learn, love, communicate,
and make our world(s) a better place to be!

I'm kind of confused about this thing's many facets.  Here are some
thoughts (I'm looking for _your_ opinion on them!):

- Am I the only one who won't get quite as much enjoyment out of the
song anymore?

- There must be some value in this type of thing.  I can't imagine that
_all_ of the people on the wheel are _evil_.  I'm wondering if we can't
find some way of getting the value out of this type of community without
the ugliness.  I think there's some value in being part of a smaller
community, being able to share things a little more deeply, having a 
more established (and yes, maybe even governed) set of norms, and a
greater sense of belonging (it's kind of hard to feel like a part of
things here considering the sheer volume of traffic).  And yes, a place
with a greater signal to noise ratio.  Please understand, I'm not saying
that _anything_ written here is noise in itself, but information is
in the eyes of the beholder, and to me, there _is_ a lot of chaff here.
But don't get me wrong: (to paraphrase Phil) I don't know why some of
you write what you write, but I'll defend to the death your right to
write it (sometimes it's _good_ that this is a text medium, huh? :-).
The point is, I wouldn't mind a smaller place to be with like-minded
people, creating a stronger connection than I have with most of you
right now (Hmm, maybe I'll start alt.sweetness-and-light ;-) ;-).
Before you get all upset, the main thing is that it would be open to
_anyone_.  More like _everyone_!  The best part of going to dead shows
(to me) is the feeling that I'm with 20,000 friends, most of whom I
haven't met yet!  I feel that way about all of you here, too, and in
my ficticious system, all of you would be welcome.  The only thing
is, I think I'd have more enforcement of some basic rules than there is
here, and anyone that didn't like it would be just as free to go as they
are to join.  I mean basic rules like being nice to each other,
especially when it comes to things like attacking a person's character,
rather than their ideas.  I'd want to promote discussion of ideas, but
if a person was into just being plain nasty to people (and this is my
problem with Joe Hack, whether or not he has anything useful to say, I
don't think there's any need for the type of abuse he's thrown around
here lately), I'd be willing to restrict their access for a time, at 
least.  Lastly, btw, my system wouldn't be dead-related, but people
related.  I wouldn't want to compete in any way with r.m.gd (or the
wheel).  Anyway, just some ideas...

- As has been said several times, the beauty of the net is that it
promotes communication - bringing us all together.  Like the dead.
The wheel is so disappointing because it does just the opposite.  It
puts up a wall, seperating people into "us" and "them".  Is this the 
future of the net?   Frightening and depressing if it is, and I think
I'd find myself in the wrong line of work!  The worst part of this
is not even what's gone on, but who!  (Yes, I've seen the list, *NO*
I'm not going to publish it).  People from this group and others
who you and I have admired for their openness, communication, and 
bringing people together have decided to close themselves off and
deem the rest of us unworthy of their attention.  Again, I don't 
blame them for wanting to find a quieter, more personal space.  I
do blame them for doing things like reserving friendliness and
warmth only for other wheel.folk (I have _seen_ this happen), and 
publicly judging and defaming others without even having the decency
to tell them and/or let them respond.  I like to assume that someone new
is my friend until they prove otherwise.  The wheel takes the opposite
point of view.  It's just that *they*should*have*known*better*!!

- the way I hear it, wheel.folk would not only let the rest of the
wheel decide whether someone new is worthy of their friendship, but
even if their own friends are worthy (Oh, really, that person isn't
worthy?  I wonder what I ever saw in them?)  Disgusting, and again,
these people should have known better.

- If what they were doing was so innocent, why was it a secret?

- Letting the cat out of the bag was a very agonizing decision for 
Joe.  A lot of people have given him some serious abuse (one 
happened to mention that under certain circumstances, this would be
just cause for having someone killed!) about exposing the wheel.
I think comparing this thing to Nazi Germany is a valuable analogy
(thank you, George! :-)  :

	I'm sure the nazis had the same feelings toward people who
	told the world what was going on - and yes, I'm sure they
	felt just as justified as any wheelie that what they were
	doing was just as right and for the common good.

	The most important thing about the holocaust is to remember
	that it happened.  It's important also for people on r.m.gd
	to know that this is going on, so they can think about it
	themselves, in light of this kind of discussion, so that it
	doesn't happen again.

	Also so that anyone who did get asked would know that they are
	not alone in feeling wrong about this, and could have others
	to talk to besides those on the "inside".  What else are
	they going to do but justify it?  I think it would be
	somewhat difficult to turn down the offer when it's made on
	an individual basis, and I'm so damn proud of my old pal
	Joe that he had the strength to do it!  Looks like he showed
	better judgement than anyone else on the wheel.  Pretty
	good for a former and current DICK and/or DACK, huh?  :-)


I agree with the several others who have said let's move past this into
happier and better things.  But, let's not forget it!  Let's:

- learn from this so that it doesn't happen again.
- learn from this what's _really_ important on the net, and in life.
- learn not to put so much faith in net.gods, and more faith in
ourselves.  We're _all_ net.gods if we want to be - we don't need anyone
else but ourselves, and more importantly, the more we learn to value
ourselves, the less we need to look for validation from others.  Hell, I
can think of 2 or 3 supposed net.gods right off the top of my head who
are now on the wheel whose qualifications for net.godhood are a
holier-than-thou attitude, an opinion about _everything_,  and no
restraint in sharing it.  Is that really what we want to look for in
our gods?  I'd rather look for a love of peace, a kind and supportive
manner, and a tendency toward relevance and away from abuse.  Wouldn't
you?
- learn the kind of shortcomings and weaknessess we all have.
- learn that good can overcome evil, love can overcome hate, and a
warm hand can overcome a cold shoulder.  People have already denounced
the wheel, at least (and most notably) their sys-op.  I hope more
follow and join us back here soon.  We'll welcome them with open arms
always.  And if they want to stay in "coolsville" that's their option.
My guess is they'll find themselves on an elevator going nowhere, with
the air getting more and more stagnant as time goes on.  But hey, it's
up to them!  I wish you _all_ peace!

Well, that's enough for now.  Like I said, these are a bunch of thoughts
floating around my head that I wanted to share and am interested in 
feedback on.  Sorry about the rambling parts!

Thanks for listening, 

Max
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead