HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Facts and Opinions: Insights on American Jewish Thinking(?)
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:36:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.141222.8867@tronsbox.xei.com> moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>Herman Rubin writes:

			...................

>>As far as consulting the primary texts in the original languages, I cannot
>>read Euclid's _Elements_, nor the even more important work of Diophantus,
>>in the original Greek.  Nor can more than a handful of mathematicians 
>>today, including the greatest ones.  

>If you doubted Euclid's conclusions, you'd be a fool not to read him
>in the original.  How much more so for Torah?

I would have to doubt the competence of the translators to consider
doing this.  If I could disprove his conclusions, I would not have to
read anyone; I would carefully check that I had not made errors in my
logic, and if a computer program were available to do that, I would
have no hesitancy in doing it.  A formal proof can be verified by a
computer program.

>>I cannot imagine a curriculum in which a student would be expected to
>>even look at these original works, rather than getting them placed in
>>context in presentations in the vernacular.  Even at the research level,
>>knowledge of other languages is primarily so that the investigator can
>>read the current literature before it is digested or translated.  While
>>I can read the mathematicians of the 17th and 18th century in Latin, I
>>only do so to find out if they used a trick which has been removed from
>>the current textbooks, not for the theorems.

>Sounds like a weak excuse to me.  You seek to undermine the
>foundations of Judaism when you haven't even read the most basic texts
>(not to mention reading them in their original languages), nor have
>you consulted with the experts who have.

My Hebrew is quite good enough for me to read the sources if necessary,
often with the aid of a dictionary.  I have read more than one annotated
Chumash completely, more than one Tractate of the Talmud, and excerpts
from other the Talmud and other works.  I admit that I read these latter
in translation.

In fact, I found that reading Genesis from the standpoint of the Big Bang
extremely easy, but it was necessary to go back to interpretation, not 
dictionary translation, of the original Hebrew.  It is not clear to me
that the necessary reinterpretation could have been made by the ancient
sages, although many of them would have not had any real difficulty with
accepting them as reasonable.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:49:37 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <j-4msqf.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Stephen Saroff speaks of doing justly. Since World Jewry isn't doing
>anything to the Moslems in Bosnia, that positive precept doesn't
>apply to the situation. Failing to intervene when another country
>does unjustly does not contravene the requirement to "do justly."

It's not "do justly", whatever might have been said by others.  It's
"do justice" (Michah 5:8).  I don't have the slightest idea what
justice requires the borders of the various Balkan states to be, but I
know that it requires that people there, no matter what their parents
did, be allowed to live.

>There has also been much back and forth about Croatian cooperation with
>the Nazis, and much defense of today's Croats as not the same
>people, not responsible for what their ancestors did, etc. It's been
>my experience that without massive and dramatic overt public education
>and opinion campaigns, anti-semitic parents generally teach it to their

[the following is sarcasm-captioned for the ironically-impared]

Tell you what, let's go in, stop the killing, identify the
anti-semites and hand them over to their enemies.  Tell them that if
they kill anyone else we'll be back, but that they can do whatever
they want to these people.  Or is there a danger that an anti-semite
might get away, so we'd better not intervene until everyone is dead?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided apple.
 |warren@      But the cabbie
/ nysernet.org is not concerned at all.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:55:53 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug21.221400.626137@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.172320.624469@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>>In article <57433@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:

			......................

>>>What is the difference between this and simply declaring that the
>>>whole world is Israel?  Then all Jews are automatically living in
>>>Israel, and the problems of aliyah disappear completely!


>Your idea is an excellent idea, and I might even let you talk me
>into this  - if you can solve one minor problem.

>Where do you plan to put all the goyim? After all, we all agreed to
>the original statement that we could kick out all the goyim. :-)

Are you referring to my statement that there would not be enough room
in Israel even if all the goyim were kicked out?  Even Kahana only
advocated kicking out the Arabs from Israel.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: schin@acs.bu.edu (neil schier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Follow-up Stanford '90 Yale '90
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:07:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: schin@acs.bu.edu

Hello again!
Awfully sorry. I just realized that Vanessa Southern went to Stanford
and Sarah Roff went to Yale. If anyone knows there whereabouts would you
kindly contact me?

Regards
Neil Schier
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Candle lighting times
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:55:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

I am developing some home automation software, and would like to tie
it to candle lighting time for Shabbos and Yom Tov.  I already have the
JCAL
software to determine when the Yom Tovim are, but I need an algorithm to
calculate candle lighting (or sundown) times based on a latitude and
longitude.

Does anybody know where I can find this?

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: L'Chaim 4 of 8
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:13:04 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

***********************************************************************
L'CHAIM                       ISSUE # 228                  PART 4 OF 8
***********************************************************************
                              WHAT'S NEW?
***********************************************************************
 
SUBWAY SPIRITUALITY
   Riding on a New York subway can be an enlightening experience thanks
to the Chai Foundation's latest poster. A close-up of the words "In G-d
We Trust"  from a dollar  bill are part  of the important  message that
this poster is hoping to bring  out for Jews and non-Jews alike. A free
brochure  on  the   subject  is  also   available  simply  by   calling
1-212-CHABAD-1.
 
IS MAZAL TOV ENOUGH?
   Modern medical wisdom recognizes that good health and care depend on
a  patient's emotional state and mental attitude. For centuries, it has
been customary for Jewish women to adorn both the birthing room and the
cradle  with  Psalm   121  (Shir  Lama'alot).  The   Psalm  states  our
declaration  of  dependence  upon  the  Creator  for   our  safety  and
well-being, and His  commitment to guard  us at all  times. If you  are
expecting a child  or know  someone who is,  you can get  a free,  full
color print of the  Psalm by writing to LEFJME-Expectant  Mother Offer,
824 Eastern Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11213. Or call (718) 756-5720.
 
---
 * Origin: L'Chaim BBS - KESHERnet NYC node2 (718-756-7201) (1:278/610)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Re: Kosher Rest. Request for FAQ
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:45:54 GMT

millman@ursa.UUCP (Phillip Millman) writes:

>Hi!  I have started a database with Kosher Restuarants through out
>the USA and Canada but I need your help.  I only have FIVE records.

>Any comments are welcome.  PLEASE use millman@bear.com to get to me.

	This is all very nice and evenything, but a kosher list already
exists.  It is called the Jewish Traveller's Database, and it is available
on israel.nysernet.org.  I would suggest that you look there for the
information your require.

	Keeping a database like this up to date is a very time consuming
process.  Dispite the fact that two people are working on the project,
it is still about two weeks behind.  If you would like to help out (this
is address to the general readership of s.c.j.) please let me know.


>Phillip Millman				millman@bear.com
>Bear, Stearns & Co. Inc.		My free opinions on my free time.

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ward@sun1.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:10:36 GMT

In article <57250@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> 
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>If every Jew settled in Israel, even kicking out all the goyim in
>Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank would not be adequate.  The limits
>are quite real, and we cannot count on manna.

Actually, that is not true.  Some simple calculations will suffice:
Suppose each individual is housed in a 900 sq. foot apartment, and
each apartment building is 20 stories.  Both of these are quite
reasonable.  This would allow the housing of 619520 people in
one square mile of space (5280 feet per mile yields 27,878,400 square
feet per square mile; divide by 900 square feet per person, gives 30976
people per square mile per floor; multiply by 20 floors gives 619520
people per square mile).  Now, allowing for, say 15 million Jews, would
require 24.2 square miles of space.  Even if we allow for about a factor
of 10 for additional space (9000 square feet per person), we still have
only 242 square miles.  Israel, without including the territories, is
about 8500 square miles.  I think they could fit.

(Now feeding them is a different problem ...)

(In fact, if you go back to the original 900 square feet per person, and
include the territiories, you can put the whole population of the planet
there)

>	"Pray as if everything depends on God;
>	 act as if everything depends on you."

I can agree with this.
From: allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura Allender)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:56:57 GMT
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences

goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:
> allender@ils.nwu.edu (Laura Allender) writes:
> 
> >> If one is a non-Jew, and has Orthodox friends over from time
> >> to time, what can legitimately be offered them to eat or drink,
> >> and still leave them at ease?
> >
> >A silly (?) question in response to a considerate question....
> 
> Laura's question and mine are indicative of something interesting.
> There are readers here who want to know more about Jewish dietary
> regulations.  Anyone want to publish the "Goy's Guide to Jewish
> Dietary Law"?  I'm quite serious.  People are into political cor-
> rectness these days, and one facet of that is paying attention to
> the dietary requirements of, say, Muslims, Jews, and Hindus.  A
> humorous, but factual, book would be a big help.

Actually, I am Jewish (somewhat traditional reform), and I know the 
dietary laws well enough -- since I don't keep Kosher, 
knowing how to respect other peoples wishes is 
sufficient.  I just found it very ironic that our laws find a well
cleansed knife dirty and the dirty ground clean.   

> 
> Thanks again to everyone who responded.

Ditto.


Laura Allender
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:42:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Aug21.174225.10683
Organization: Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA 02138-5302

In article <1992Aug20.133137.27509@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

> Fox's U-Bet (this does not constitute an endorsement or advertising.  The
>		fact that you cannot make a real egg cream with anything
>		else notwithstanding.)

Yes, this is definitely 100% true.  On the other hand, it is possible
for soda fountain guys to make their own chocolate syrup, which is
fine for egg creams.

> Fill the glass one half to a one third full with milk.

This is probably most common, but debatable as a first step.  Why?
Well, as an alternative, you can go with syrup and seltzer first and
then stir before adding the milk, which gives you chocolatey bubbles
that you can poke holes in and they won't just break, and the foam
itself tastes chocolatier.  It depends on what kind of bubbles you
want, and it also changes the flavor of the egg cream itself.

It is possible to use some form of cream instead of milk, and while
this is decadent and even enjoyable, it isn't normally done.  As for
eggs, you can put a raw one in a malted, but I've never done it to an
egg cream.

By the way, add a pretzel to the egg cream and you've got a complete meal.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Interactive   Cambridge, MA   +1 617 661 7474
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Dialects of Ashkenazic Hebrew
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:38:51 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <199208091129.AA21030@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>
> In: <VICTOR.92Aug6143800@terse4.watson.ibm.com>
> victor@watson.ibm.com (Victor Miller) gives examples and asks:
>
>>I've been curious about dialects (major dialects -- I'm aware that

                     >much deleted<

>>crept in because of Yiddish.
>>
>>Does someone know anything more comprehensive about this, other than
>>the few pieces of anecdotal information that I've given.
>
>As the  question is about  Ashkenazic Hebrew, this should  include the
>German Jews, and they pronounce the holam  as an 'ow' (like in how now
>brown cow).  I have not heard anywhere (and in Israel we have all kind
>of  Ashkenazi,  and other  pronunciations!)  this  extra 'n'  like  in
>ansher.   On the  other hand  the 'n'  gets frequently  added by  some
>before or instead of an ayin, e.g. ya'ankov instead of ya'akov (surely
>the 'o' sound here as well  has it's variations).  This ya'ankov could
>have been the origin for the name yaNkel.
>


This is the exact origin of the name 'Yankel'
The 'n' is a Yiddish addition in order to show the ayin


>I am not sure about the exact "rules" when n gets added to ayin, as it
>is  not always  done (perhaps  only for  ones with  vowels in  the the
>middle of a word?).
>
>>              Victor S. Miller
>
>   Michael Shimshoni


-Danny
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.jjapan
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Re: Jews in Japan
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:49:29 GMT

cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:

>I will be visiting Japan in 1 1/2 weeks and am wondering about the
>history of Jews in Japan, and also about kosher food, synagogues,
>etc.  I will be in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Sendai, and possibly Kobe.
>There appear to be synagogues in Kobe and Tokyo.  Are any of the
>member japanese or are they all foreigners?  I would appreciate
>any information anyone has.

	A warning about the schul in Kobe -- if I am think about the right one,
it is Shephartic and rarly has services.  (Usually only on major holidays
and other days by request.

	The only schul you can count on is the one in the JCC in Tokyo.
Shabbat services start at 7:00PM and 9:00AM dinner and a light kiddush
follow the respective services.  As far kosher food is concerned,
bring your own (but smuggle it in, it is not legal).  There are a few
western stlye supermarkets that sell stuff that is OU, but that's it.

	Some are also willing to eat at Shinto and Buddist temples
since they are strictly vegitarian.  I am a file I wrote based on my
four months in Japan that I usually upload in response to these posts,
but since I am moving I have not had a chance to dog it up.

	One of these days I will add Japan to Kosher database.  Till then,
if you have anymore questions feel free to drop my a line at my new
address: slater@phx.mcd.mot.com  not the address that I posted this from.

	Enjoy!  Japan is a facinating country.  Even for Jews.

>--
>Ronald Cohen

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: The effects of your morality on me
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:44:08 GMT

OK, we are all from now on forbidden to tell another person that he or
she is wrong.  Of course if the other person does it to me first, that's
different. :)
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold gazelle.
 |warren@      But the hiker
/ nysernet.org is concerned.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:28:01 GMT

In article <57359@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu
(Herman Rubin) writes:

>Not just feeding them, but having workplaces, allowing them to have 
>useful lives, etc.  I personally consider most of Israel as overcongested,
>anyhow, as I consider most of the cities in the world.

Either you haven't been to Israel or New York, or your idea of
overcongestion has an extraordinarily low threshold.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: is the hebrew language a new language?
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:43:26 GMT

shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham) writes:
>
>Modern Hebrew is the same as the biblical one with modern vocabulary and
>gramer added in the past 100 years or so.

If the vocabulary and grammar are different, perhaps we'd want to modify
this statement:  Modern Hebrew is a language, heavily influenced by Indo-
European, Aramaic, and Arabic, that is based on the scholarly and litur-
gical language used by Jews from the close of the biblical era up until
its revival in our century.  My training was in biblical Hebrew, then I
had some in the Mishna and Tosefta.  I then started reading Medieval Heb-
rew, and finally (just recently) Modern Hebrew.  Each jump has required
a lot of work on my part.  Modern Hebrew doesn't strike me as very bib-
lical (except in its basic morphology).  I find it amusing, for instance,
when I read scholarly works in modern Hebrew about biblical Hebrew.  The
two idioms are drastically, drastically different - so much so that often
the writer must "translate"!  And of course the sound of modern Hebrew
is quite unlike what the Medieval grammarians describe Hebrew as sounding
like.  The modern prestige dialect doesn't even distinguish ayin from
aleph, or emphatic from non-emphatic consonants.  It's almost like they
are trying to speak with a Yiddish accent (yet without the one feature
they ought to have retained - the low, back rounded qametz)!

Ben Yehuda is rolling over in his grave :-), as I'm sure he had a more
"Semitic" restoration of Hebrew in mind (although perhaps the historians
of Hebrew revival will correct me on this one).

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:43:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.201549.24437@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.225331.16334@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>
>>Some of the club soda makers now sell spritzer tops for their  2 liter
>>club soda bottles.  I haven't yet tried that in an egg creme so I don't
>>know if it's good enough to produce the right effect.
>
>It's a nice gimick if you work behind a bar, but won't help the egg
>cream.  Adding a spritz top to bottled seltzer won't increase the
>pressure in the bottle.  When you get the bottles delivered, they're
>under higher pressure than screw-top bottles.  If you put that much
>pressure in an ordinary bottle, it's spray all over the face when you
>open it.

Ah.  Oh well, nice thought.
-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 02:32:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu

>If it helps, the inscription should be (reading from right to left):
>
>  Kaf, Shin, Resh, <space>, Lamed, Peh, Samech, Chet

	...as opposed to all those other random Hebrew inscriptions which
sometimes show up on Coke cans! :-) :-)

						Dan
From: ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: become jewish ?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:36:21 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech

In article <1992Aug14.101010.11514@cicb.fr>, moisan@cicb.fr (Herve Moisan -  stagiaire CICB) writes:
|> 
|> is it true that nobody can become jewish and it is obligatory to
|> have a jewish mother ?

	ABSULUTELY NOT!!!

	I'm not sure where you got this information, but is is completely 
wrong.  (As far as I know, the only religious groups that do not have a 
conversion process are the Samaritans and the Druze.)

	The conversion process is fairly straight forward, though it is not
easy (on purpose).
  
|> And what do you think of extrem-rights mvts which grows in europe 
|> ?
|> (Le Pen in france, neo-nazis in germany)
|> do you think are they only hooligans or is it more dangerous ?

	If they are not opposed, they are _potentially_ as dangerous as Hitler.

	Elya