HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:40:37 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: talk,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com

In article <4669@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
|> 
|> This information even technically can be considered as correct, is not
|> so.
|> As it is known at this moment Shulamit Aloni the leader of the fanatic
|> leftists and the minister of education , selected the 3 prize commity
|> members after at least 2 others Professor Anita Shapira and Efrayim
|> Evron a former israeli Ambassador to the US , refused entering the
|> commity in order to select the selected-in-advanced-by-Aloni  Prof.
|> Leobowitz.

I can understand your resentment at having Aloni be Minister
of Education, a change which I understand has been dissappointing to
many who voted for her as well, however...

"fanatic leftists"???

Do you mean that they are going around stripping Israelis of
their religion, allocating gov't funds to make religious Russian
emigres become atheists, and forcing religious youngsters
to serve in the IDF while at the same time releasing atheists
from service?

Geez, these fanatics can be awful....

|> Leibowitz ideas about Israel and the Jews are about those of Yigal
|> Arens.

He does take the high moral ground, in a non-compromising
way (Leibovtiz I mean, no offense Yigal) and many people
find that hard to stomach.  Especially as he has so often
been proved right.

-- 
Shai Guday              | Stealth bombers,
OS Software Engineer    |
Thinking Machines Corp. |	the winged ninjas of the skies.
Cambridge, MA           |
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26119 talk.politics.soviet:10673
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Recalling in sorrow the silent memory of 2.5 million Muslim people.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:40:05 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <105872@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

 >Wonderfull. My kill file was NOT deleted but due to 
 >your willingness to 'wipe the shit' off *your* boots
 >I had to step into that shit too. And I guess, not 
 >only I. 

He is confused about the details, like yourself, but he is
very clever about the spirit of the season. Amazing "wieneramus".

   The rebels joined the bandits in the Andok Mts., carrying out
   the most frightful massacres and looting among the tribes of the
   neighbourhood. They burned Omer Agha's nephew alive. They
   raped a number of Turkish women at a spot three or four hours'
   distance from Gulli-Guzat and then strangled them.

   At the beginning of August the rebels attacked the Faninar,
   Bekiran and Badikan tribes, perpetrating equally horrible
   atrocities. The rebels in the villages of Yermut and Ealigernuk in
   the nahiye of Cinan in the kaza of Cal attacked the Kurds in the
   neighbourhood, as well as the villages of Kaisser and Catcat.

   Towards the end of August, the Armenians attacked the
   Kurds in the vicinity of Mus and burned down three or four
   villages, including Gulli-Guzat. As for the 3000 rebels in Talori,
   they continued to spread death and destruction among the
   Muslims and other Christian communities, refusing to lay down
   their arms. Regular troops were finally sent to force them to
   submit.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26311 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10719 soc.culture.europe:11437 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1373 soc.culture.croatia:507 talk.politics.soviet:10748 soc.culture.soviet:12435
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: White Paper 1937
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:26:09 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


   Chapter 5,  Arab proposals:
   
   58.  The Arab Higher Committee assured as that the 
   welfare of the Jewish minority  would be safeguarded 
   not only by specific provisions in the Treaty which 
   would  accompany the grant of independence but also 
   by the habitual toleration which Jewish  minorities have 
   enjoyed in other Arab lands.  But it must be 
   remembered that those  Jewish minorities elsewhere 
   are relatively very small and that the Jewish minority 
   in  Palestine is already regarded by the Arabs as too 
   big.  On this point the following  questions put to the 
   Mufti of Jerusalem and his replies should be noted:-
   
          Q.  Does His Eminence think that this country can 
              assimilate and digest the 400,000 Jews now in the 
              country?
   
          A.  No.
   
          Q.  Some of them would have to be removed by a 
              process kindly or painful as the  case may be?
   
          A.  We must leave all this to the future.
   
   We are not questioning the sincerity or the humanity of 
   the Mufti's intentions and those  of his colleagues; but 
   we cannot forget what recently happened, despite 
   treaty provisions  and explicit assurances, to the 
   Assyrian minority in 'Iraq;  nor can we forget that the  
   hatred of the Arab politician for the National Home has 
   never been concealed and that it  has now permeated 
   the Arab population as a whole. 
   
   Palestine Royal Commission 1937, Chap. V, para. 58, pp. 
   140-141.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26394 soc.culture.greek:12668
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "Paliks" live with an illusion.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 16:43:54 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <schoinas.728038119@cs.wisc.edu> schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:

>You are not serious, are you? Go read a history book and stop writing
>nonsense. Do you have any idea of the history of Cyprus? Do you have
>any idea of the history of the Balkans or the Asia Minor? It seems not.

What would I do if you were blind? This is the same mentality which 
allows Greeks to rationalize that Cyprus is a Greek Island. No history 
book shows that it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman Turks 'lock,
stock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years.

In fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following
bloody naval battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the
island of Cyprus belonged, invariably, to several nations:

The Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians,
the Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as 
their territory. But, it has never been the possession
of the government of Greece - not even for one day -
in the history of the world. Moreover, Cyprus is
located 1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only 
40 miles from Turkiye's southern coastline.

Saddam Hussein claims that Kuwait was once Iraqi territory 
and the Greek Cypriot government and the Greek governments 
think that Cyprus also was once part of the Greek hegemony.

Those people involved in this grandiose hallucination
should wake up from their sweet daydreams and confront 
reality. Wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26047 soc.culture.greek:12387
From: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: conversion to judaism
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:41:55 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Control and Systems, Teknikum, Uppsala
Distribution: talk
Reply-To: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se
NNTP-Posting-Host: frej.teknikum.uu.se

In article <1993Jan21.1777.23052@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
|> to: Josh Backon
|> 
|>  JB> HUH ????? Utter nonsense !!! If you show me two sets of
|>  JB> national identity cards of Israeli citizens (two different
|>  JB> cards), I'll eat my hat ! Kindly show me "two sets" of
|>  JB> identity cards. Pray tell me Wayne, how do they differ in
|>  JB> dimension or color ? I assure you Wayne that you couldn't
|>  JB> tell apart *my* identity card from that of my Arab student
|>  JB> from Kafr Kari.
|> 
|> Josh,
|> 
|> Is the information concerning Israeli identity cards in the
|> following article incorrect?
|> 
|> Sheldon L. Richman
|> 'Who is a Jew' Matters in Israel
|> The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs
|> March 1990
|> p. 10
|> 
|>         ....
|> 
|>         Each Israeli must carry an identity card, which has a 
|>         line indicating "nationality."  One would think that an 
|>         Israeli citizen would have the word "Israeli" on that 
|>         line. Not so. The nationality of any Jew is "Jew;" the
|>         nationality of an Israeli Arab--even one who has lived 
|>         for decades in, say, Jaffa--is "Arab." In 1970 a Jewish
|>         human rights activist tried to challenge this practice by 
|>         asking the Interior Ministry to change his registration 
|>         to Israeli. It refused and the Supreme Court upheld the
|>         decision. The court stated that "There is no Israeli
|>         nation separate from the Jewish people."

[ I'd like a comment from an Israeli on this. Is it true??]

[Socialism bashing excluded]

Do american passports still indicate 'race', or have you done away 
with that? If not, what conclusions are to be drawn?


--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+
From: marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Checking an Arab's bottom
Keywords: To Adam
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:35:25 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:

>There was a case in Lebanon for example that the "Freedom
>Fighters" had stuffed a Donkey's ass with explosives. When the ass (other name
>for donkey) came close to an Israeli patrol a "Freedom Fighter" using a remote
>control activated the device. 2 or 3 soldiers were killed.
>If Marwan's story is true,  I guess now they check all asses :-)

Not really ... Not *ALL* Asses. The point is that someone stupidly claimed
that the israeli border patrol checked everyone's by the same method of
humiliation. This is not true ... it seems that the israelis are very PICKY
when it comes to asses ...

>Tsiel

--Marwan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis / Borders
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:10:57 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <74349@cup.portal.com> L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno) writes:


>	The United States has long been an ally and benefactor to Israel.
>Indeed, I am of the opinion that if Israel faced a threat even remotely
>similar to the one Kuwait endured prior to the Persian Gulf war, the
>U.S. would be among the first to ensure Israel's defenses, as well as
>help to extend any required offensive capabilities.
>
>	Therefore, how does subjecting its Palestinian minority to all
>of the various dehumanizing factors in the occupied territories ensure
>its defense against those that would wish to "push the Jews into the
>sea?"
>
>
>Regards,
>
>--Louis

Because defensible borders it what it is all about.  Get a topo map and
study the area around Irbit in Northern Jordan near the border with
Syria.  This is the corridor through which Syrian armor can circumvent
the Golan Heights.  In 1972, Syria launched a probing armored invasion
into this area in support of the PLO's effort to subvert and overthrow
the Jordanian governement: Black September.  It was Assad's move to grab
power (as Chief of Air Force he refused air cover to the operation,
causing a "Bay of Pigs" embarrasment to topple the Syrian regime) that
aborted the operation.  During the crisis, Golda Meir made a committment
to King Hussein that the IAF would make up any deficiency that the
Jordanian army encountered while reversing the invasion.  Assad's
move made this unnecessary.

In '73, Assad (newly installed as President) was forced to attack through 
the Golan, because Israel controls the border at the Jordan River, thus 
denying any advantage to a strike through the Irbit corridor.

The Jordan River is the natural defense line for Israel against an
armored attack at this weak point.  The pre-67 border is a recipe for
disaster... especially given the fact that the Hashemite government
probably will not remain in power.

Palestinian autonomy and defensible borders.  That is the goal.

-- Chris Metcalfe
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26138 soc.history:10919
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Have you ever noticed that....
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:33:46 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <CB.93Jan21174155@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>I'm amazed that *anyone* reads Argic/Mutlu/Sera's material!  Even if I didn't
>have a kill file (which still leaves his subject lines on the menu) I'd still
>skip them.  I lost interest REAL fast.

Well, you have joined the cripples and revisionists on the edge of the herd. 
The Dashnaktsutiun revolutionary party had embarked into action without
losing time; it had initiated massacres even before a treaty was signed
between the Ottomans and the Russians. General Tovmas Nazarbekov 
(Nazarbekian), who was responsible for the Armenian massacres of the Muslims
between 1914 and 1917, was appointed commander to the Armenian army. This
army was established with the approval of General Przhevalsky, the Chief of
General Staff of the Russian Caucasian Armies, and was composed of three
brigades. The first brigade was placed under the command of bloodthirsty
adventurer General Dro (Drastamar Kanaian) who had massacred Muslims in
1914 and 1915; the second brigade was placed under the command of Colonel
Silikian, and the third one under the command of Antranik who had slaughtered
more than 600,000 Kurds between 1915 and 1916. These armies committed massacres
against the Muslims.[1]

[1] A. N. Kurat, "Turkiye ve Rusya, 1798-1919" (Ankara, 1975), p. 364-371. 

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26206 talk.politics.soviet:10692 soc.culture.greek:12480 soc.history:10936 soc.culture.turkish:14893
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.revisionism,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Estimates of "euthanasia" victims
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:39:13 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan21.090003.2937@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>   T4 - The camouflage organization created for the medical killing of 
>   adults was known as the Reich Work Group of Sanatoriums and Nursing 
>   Homes (Reichsarbeitsgemeinschaft Heil- und Pflegeanstalten, or RAG).  
>   It operated from the Berlin Chancellery, at Tiergarten 4, hence 
>   the "T4" code name.

Now I suppose you are wondering why on earth I am telling all this.
Because the Germans learned it from the Armenians. Referring to notes 
from the personal diary of Russian General L. Odishe Liyetze on the 
Turkish front, he wrote,

"On the nights 11-12 March, 1918 alone Armenian butchers 
 bayoneted and axed to death 3000 Muslims in areas surrounding
 Erzincan. These barbars threw their victims into pits, most
 likely dug according to their sinister plans to extinguish 
 Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant counted and unearthed
 200 such pits. This is an act against our world of civilization."

On March 12, 1918 Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official
Russian account of the Turkish genocide),

"Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos,
 dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...
 alas! mainly of women and children."

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26303 soc.culture.greek:12565 soc.history:10988
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Greek Philosophy is a joke
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 20:04:23 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <9301261534.AA10369@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner) writes:

>  Why are the Greeks given credit for the development of Philosophy as a 
>  science. They had no contribution science of Philosophy, because the tenets
>  of Philosophy were laid down thousands of years before the Greeks were even
>  cognizant of themselves. The formalization of Philosophical thought and
>  ideology was developed by the Ancient Egyptians from whom the Greeks merely
>  plagarized. These early African people educated the Greeks, who were at that
>  time known as the Pyrhennians, and gave them there culture. I just don't
>  appreciate the way the history books have been rigged to perpetuate this 
>  myth of Greek Philosophy.
  
>So, 'Arthur', if the Ancient Egyptians were so smart, how come they did
>not have Cable TV?

Because they had "sipas" to laugh at.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26409 talk.politics.soviet:10842 soc.culture.greek:12675 soc.culture.europe:11507 soc.history:11057 soc.culture.soviet:12516 alt.activism.d:4571 soc.culture.turkish:15182
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion - unmoderating misc.activism.progressive
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 19:26:08 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan27.012120.9635@mont.cs.missouri.edu> rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) writes:

>Michael Friedman writes that "clearly" misc.activism.progressive (MAP)
>has become ... a megaphone for [co-moderator] Harel [Barzilai] to
>promulgate views he agrees with while muffling those he disagrees
>with."

Harel Barzilai is a self-admitted mouthpiece for the ASALA/SDPA/ARF
Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle and simply acts as an Armenian 
governmental crony in this forum.

That beacon of fascism has also implemented ASALA/SDPA/ARF-sponsored 
censorship in an attempt to silence the Turkish people's vehement 
demands and protests.


 "In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.
  It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us
  create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial
  life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us
  falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats 
  in this alien land."
            (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - "Preserving the Armenian purity") 


 "The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination 
  of the Muslim population in the Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, 
  Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the 
  extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government 
  during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII."
                  (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)


 "Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
  Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
  of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
  are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide 
  perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
  Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
  lands."         (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)