HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: damiene@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Eccles)
Subject: Vampire: The Masquerade: RPG
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:03:12 GMT

I got the chance to play this in the last week, and I'm pretty
impressed. Its a gothic-punk world, where the Vampires are all
descended from Caine (yeah, I know) and are now up to their 
13th and 14th generations.

It desrcibes vampires a little differently than most places (a 
vampires blood gets weaker rather than stronger with age, althought
powers increase), and in the interests of stopping characters
from becoming mobile massacring machines, they have 13 clans of
vampires, each with a set of clan disciplines, like Animal form,
invisibility, etc, so that the full range of vampire powers are
covered.
um... what else. Their vampires are not stopped by garlic and do
cast reflections, holy symbols don't stop them (faith might) and
they are indifferent to water.

Very interesting stuff.... I recommend it.

Another point: someone mentioned authors other than Anne Rice, try
Barbara Hambly, Immortal Blood (different title in America, I think)

Eccles

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: david.vaughan@rose.com (david vaughan)
Subject: Vampire non-fic.
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:02:10 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-11-93 01:57
I have recently read Vampires : The Complete Guide to the World of the 
Undead by Manuela Dunn Mascetti.  It is an interesting 
discussion of the folklore and fiction about our favorite subject, 
illustrated with a variety of paintings and haunting photographs.

I am wondering if anyone could recommend other n-f works on the 
subject.  I am particular interested in folkloric (as opposed to 
literary) vampires.  Also, if anyone knows of any works on 
non-European vampires (I know that there are vampire-like creatures in 
many Oriental cultures), or works which contain extensive info on 
them, I would appreciate hearing about them.

The former materials are part of my background research for a vampire 
story (length currently uncertain) I am writing, while the latter is 
background research for a Vampire : The Masquerade RPG campaign.

Thanks in advance,

David S. Vaughan
Hamilton, Ont., Canada.
david.vaughan@rose.com
---
   RR 1.60 P002365: Just when your life seems complete, someone writes a sequel.
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: The Vampyr : A soap opera
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:41:28 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: garlic.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Summary: Anyone see it?

Did anyone watch `The Vampyr' when it was on last week here in the UK?
For those who missed it, an omnibus edition is on, either on Saturday
or Sunday at 9:55pm on BBC 2.

Happy viewing.

		Graeme.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: kcantrel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ken  Cantrell)
Subject: Quantum Leap
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 05:20:06 GMT

Quantum Leap will soon feature Sam as a vampyre??  Most cool.  When?


--
####################
Ken Cantrel **  kec158s@vma.smsu.edu  **  kcantrel@nyx.cs.du.edu
Better Known As 'Marius' to the Net.         **Don't Forget To Smile
#################### 		               That's why God gave us Fangs.**
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: vamp@seanews.akita.com (Ryan Watkins)
Subject: Re: hmmm
Organization: SEANEWS - Seattle Public Access News + Mail
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:39:37 GMT

mjann@hotcity.COM (Maureen Jann) writes:

> What is the difference between "Vampyres" and "Vampires"?
>                                 \c2;)KaWsMiCkE(;

Spelling.

--
[] SEANEWS [] Seattle Public Access Usenet News + Mail [] +1 206 747 NEWS []
vamp@seanews.akita.com
Newsgroups: alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.politics.kibo
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: Bogus USENET Groups
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:20:41 GMT

In article <BzDzw2.3G6@world.std.com> kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes:
>In article <1gnporINNr99@news.UU.NET> tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence) writes:
>>rec.ham-radio                   superseded by rec.radio.amateur.misc
>>rec.ham-radio.packet            superseded by rec.radio.amateur.packet
>>rec.ham-radio.swap              superseded by rec.radio.swap
>>rec.kibo.hunting                no proposal
>
>I hereby propose rec.kibo.hunting.  Also rec.american.gladiators.kibo.
>
>							-- K.

Be a real man, Kibo.  Author an actual RFD on rec.kibo.hunting or
rec.hunting.kibo and send it to Tale.  We can get this newsgroup passed
_easy_.  Voting against it would Not Be Allowed.
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7: 14
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1ietmvINN5t7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> 
	<LJMORLY.93Jan6195742@polaris.utu.fi>
Date: 7 Jan 1993 07:05:46 UTC

In article <LJMORLY.93Jan6195742@polaris.utu.fi> 
ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen) writes:
>"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government 
>will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Councellor,
>Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  - Yeshaya 9:5 (9:6)

By the way, on the off chance that you're interested in the original
word, here is a faithful translation of the Masorah and Qumran texts:
JPS Tanakh, ISBN: 0-8276-0252-9:
Isaiah9:5
	For a child has been born to us,
	A son has been given us.
	And authority has settled on his shoulders.
	He has been named
	"The Mighty God is planning grace;(d)
	The Eternal Father, a peacable ruler" -
----
d: As in 25.1

It seems that Christianity is full of propaganda which doesn't
necessarily nullify the religion, but it seems one should wonder why such
zealous marketing techniques are required to sell what is supposed to be
the truth. If one seeks the truth, one should do so truthfully,
otherwise one only fools oneself. If one seeks propaganda, there are
always those who will sell it.
From: abvax!ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM!BENNING
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: sad History B-(
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:07:40 -0500 (EST)

From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7: 14

>Of course there will be those who insist on seeing things that are not
>written here and they are free to imagine whatever they want. The
>history of Christianity is not one of honesty or fidelity to the written
>word. There seems little reason to expect this to change. Certainly
>pulling the wool over your eyes keeps them warm and fuzzy.

 And you say that Judaism and Christianity are different. No way. As Paul
 sights above, the organized body of the Church has not always been honest
 or faithful to the written word. Just like Israel has never been 100%
 honest of faithful (especially after Messiah Yeshua) to the written word.

 I guess that is a proof in itself that every inclination of man's (& woman's)
 heart is evil all the time (Gen 6:5;8:21 NIV). Both Jew and Gentile.

 Thank God that God has been so graceful to us to provide help in this.
 Though is it is sad and true that these "bodies" may fail the Lord, we
 as individules can bring glory to HIS name through Messiah Yeshua who
 rescues us and intercedes for us daily as we come before God through him.


 Bruce Benning  BENNING@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Jewish New Testament Commentary by David Stern
Date: 11 Jan 1993 20:08:58 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcsqm.col.hp.com

cms@dragon.com writes:
> I have a copy of the Jewish New Testament translated by David H. 
> Stern.  The back of the book says that Stern was preparing a Jewish 
> New Testament Commentary at the time of publication.  The translation 
> was published in 1989.  Has his Commentary indeed come out?  Has 
> anyone read it?  Also, does anyone happen to know if this is the same 
> David Stern who is a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania and 
> wrote PARABLES IN MIDRASH:  THE INTERSECTION OF NARRATIVE AND EXEGESIS 
> IN RABBINIC LITERATURE?
> 
> Cindy Smith
> cms@dragon.com

The commentary is out, I got mine thru "Lamb and Friends".  Unkwn on 
if he taught at Penn, my understanding is he has been in Israel for 
many years.  If I did up infor to the contrary, I'll send you info.

shalom
daniel
//

Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: David Johnson
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:24:54 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0

To Arthur Marsh:
 AM> Also, Harvey Smith can be contacted as:

 AM> Harvey.Smith@f519.n100.z1.fidonet.org

And how can i respond net mail within this context?

--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG
From: cms@dragon.com
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re:  Jewish New Testament Commentary by David Stern
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:28:47 EST
Organization: Computer Projects Unlimited

I have a copy of the Jewish New Testament translated by David H. 
Stern.  The back of the book says that Stern was preparing a Jewish 
New Testament Commentary at the time of publication.  The translation 
was published in 1989.  Has his Commentary indeed come out?  Has 
anyone read it?  Also, does anyone happen to know if this is the same 
David Stern who is a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania and 
wrote PARABLES IN MIDRASH:  THE INTERSECTION OF NARRATIVE AND EXEGESIS 
IN RABBINIC LITERATURE?

Cindy Smith
cms@dragon.com
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7:14
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:21:32 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0

To: Robert A. Levene

 RAL> Who authored the text that was *not* quoted?  That's where
 RAL> the Christian theology is found, not in the quoted text.

I do not understand what you are attempting to convey to me?


 RAL> It clearly isn't Talmudic - the gemara doesn't say "and in 
 RAL> Genesis" or "upon Zecharia" - it just quotes the verse, and
 RAL> the citation is in the margin.

Of course not Robert, see my post to Bruce Krulwich...  This was the way the Oxford scholars had of giving credit for where the comment was made by whom on which scripture...

The Talmudic quotes are from the 15th century of the Aramaic and hebrew Talmud,
I think the Babylonian, but could be the Jerusalem.  Research is ongoing..

--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7:14
Organization: University of Turku
	<1ietmvINN5t7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
	<LJMORLY.93Jan6195742@polaris.utu.fi>
	<1ifdgbINNau4@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:56:48

In article <1ifdgbINNau4@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
> In article <LJMORLY.93Jan6195742@polaris.utu.fi> ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen) writes:
> >No one denies the above, but I don't see how that is your point --
> >it merely explains the means that the modern scholarship has. I thought
> >we were discussing about the meaning of 'almah'.

> That's what I thought as well. It means "young woman."

Aw stop deleting what you've written before me. You only described some
ways that the modern scholarship has in reseach, and didn't say a word 
about 'almah'.

[...]

> >> > Harvey is a scholar
> >
> >> By whose definition?
> >
> >Anybody's except anti-missionaries'.

> What are his qualifications? Does he publish in peer-reviewed
> journals? So far the only material I have seen from him appears
> to be deliberately misleading or flat out wrong.

Oh really ?

> >> Hardly, we've already agreed that Harvey belongs to some period
> >> of medieval "scholarship."
> >
> >Who have agreed ? You, RL and Dubi Krulwich.

> No. I was referring to you and me. I think that you and I agree
> that Harvey Smith belongs squarely in the community of some 
> medieval scholars, albeit not among the more enlightened ones.

We don't agree.

> ... In case you have not 
> noticed, I have based virtually all of my comments on the 
> scholarship of Christians.
 
Maybe you haven't noticed that this newgroup is about Messianic 
JUDAISM.  :-] 

> >> Nothing of the sort has been proven. It has been asserted. The
> >> alleged proof is worthless.
> >
> >This kind of statement is worthless. You don't seem to be able to reply
> >to the issue itself, but instead keep repeating the same old assertions.

> An amusing position. I have made no assertions of my own on the issue
> of "almah."

And that's the problem ! I have ! You can come up with as many scholars 
as you like and that doesn't have any effect on the issue itself, since
we aren't discussing what scholars to trust to, but THE MEANING OF THE 
WORD 'ALMAH'. Now, if you haven't anything new to bring up to the issue 
itself, I wish I don't need to waste my time anymore.

> ________________________________________
> Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
> 		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)

- Laura
--
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government 
will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Councellor,
Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  - Yeshaya 9:5 (9:6)
 
"To the Jews who had believed him, Yeshua said, "If you hold to my
teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.""   - Yochanan 8:32-33
From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Rabbinic Quotes
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:23:17 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of Turku

>From: Natan Zahavi via levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
>Newsgroups: alt.messianic
>Subject: Reply to Laura Manninen re: Zohar (not a repost)
>Date: 17 Dec 92 22:26:05 GMT
>Reply-To: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
>Organization: Johns Hopkins University
>NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
>
>Laura Manninen writes:
>
>>> A few weeks back Ms. Manninen quoted Bruce Carlson's citation from the
>>> so-called "Amsterdam Zohar." 
>>
>>Not true.
>
>Oh really?  The headers and an excerpt from your message appears below:
>
>   Newsgroups: alt.messianic
>   From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
>   ...
>   --
>   Rabbinic Judaism is a relationship with Rabbis,
>   Messianic Judaism is a relationship with the Messiah Yeshua.

Whoops, forgot that one. Thanks for reposting my stuff.  :-)

[A bunch of totally groundless accusations deleted]

>>When you've made up your mind, could you provide the original ?
>
>I've provided the source which is a heck of a lot better than what you
>or Mr. Carlson provided with your deceptive posts.  Go do your own
>research.

I haven't got the time. Since you said you translated yourself your 
version, I suppose that you have the original. I can't see how your
version is "a heck a lot better" without it.

>>Try first quoting Is 53:5 correctly. 
>>
>>       "But he was PIERCED (/killed; 'mecholal') for our transgressions,
>>        he was crushed (/oppressed) for our iniquities; [the punishment
>>        that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are 
>>        healed]."
>
>There's no reference in that verse to piercing.  The translation I
>provided was from the Soncino edition (Soncino is a Jewish publishing
>house).  Where's yours from?

The word 'mecholal' is the passive participle of 'chalal', meaning 
'pierced' or 'run through', and it connotates a violent death. At 
least NIV (where I got my quote) and NAS translate it correctly. This 
word also refutes your whole alleged quote, since it makes clear that 
the Messiah suffers _physically_, not mentally, as it appears in your
version. Or otherwise Rav Vidas didn't know what he was talking about,
which I doupt.

Bye, Laura
--
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government 
will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Councellor,
Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  - Yeshaya 9:5 (9:6)
 
"To the Jews who had believed him, Yeshua said, "If you hold to my
teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.""   - Yochanan 8:32-33
From: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7:14
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:17:22 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 8:7002/1.0

To Jack Love:

>>While there is great debate between Rabbinics and Christians as 
to the wording and the meaning of the word Almah in the Masoretic 
text, and Parthenos in the Septuagent.

 JL> Here you go again. There is no debate between "Rabbinics and 
 JL> Christians" on this issue. There is only a debate between 
 JL> literalists and everyone else. Literalists cannot abide the 
 JL> fact that Biblical text is occasionally unclear, cannot be 

Nope not at all Jack,  Here you go again i guess... There are issues of Torah and Tanakh that relate directly as to how, and what is proper exegetics of many  
scriptures especially Isa 7:14.

 JL> modern. If the debate is between anyone and "Christians" why 
 JL> do so many Christian translations and commentaries accept 
 JL> "young woman" as the correct text and either reject or 
 JL> question "virgin?"

Only in the modern era Jack.  only in modern translations that have not been accepted by the majority of Christians...

And to the wording "Young Woman espoused" we have no difficulty with either..
as that is the correct rendering of the word "almah",  which is utilized before a woman has her first child in Biblical hebrew..

--  
Harvey Smith - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen)
Subject: The Messiah In The Old Testament
Organization: University of Turku
Distribution: alt
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:22:07

If there's only one book you can have about the earliest Rabbinic
ideas about the Messiah, get yourselves THE MESSIAH IN THE OLD 
TESTAMENT written by Risto Santala. You can order it from 

    Keren Ahvah Meshihit
    P.O.Box 10382
    Jerusalem, Israel

The book was first written in Hebrew, then translated into Finnish, 
and now it has been translated into English. The Russian version is
under negotiation. I'm sorry but I don't know the price.
 
About the author -- he's a conservative Lutheran minister and expert
in Rabbinic writings, and once almost got murdered by Rabbis while in
Israel.

- Laura
--
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government 
will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Councellor,
Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  - Yeshaya 9:5 (9:6)
 
"To the Jews who had believed him, Yeshua said, "If you hold to my
teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.""   - Yochanan 8:32-33
From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Almah - Betulah
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:13:03 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

 JL> Date: 10 Jan 93 00:40:51 GMT
 JL> Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
 JL> Message-ID: <1inrajINNg1p@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
 JL> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 JL> 
 JL> In article <141804.2B4DD28B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
 JL> Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson) writes:

 >>As can plainly be seen, the Soncino Is. says EXACTLY what we've been
 >>saying all along: that almah can bear the meaning of virgin,
 >>(contrary >to what one will hear on this net)!

 JL> Actually, Bill, this position of yours is very close to what I
 JL> have been saying all along, although perhaps you do not have me in
 JL> mind as a disputant.

     No, it was someone else I was alluding to.  However, the problem
     is not that 'almah' can be used in a generic sense of 'young-
     maiden' [ALONG with the idea that a 'young girl of marriagable age
     who by common-sense is also a virgin in the most common
     understanding of that class & age-group - (that idea was even
     present in the English language with the word "maiden" until the
     last few decades); the PROBLEM arises when certain folks on here
     INSIST that the word ALMAH can NOT mean VIRGIN; and that only
     betulah can.  I believe that Isaiah specificly chose almah to
     indicate a 'young-maiden' AND a virgin - and was speaking in a
     prophetic sense of a sign to come to the entire house of Israel.
     Since while betulah means virgin, it also can indicate an OLD-
     VIRGIN, and Miryam was a young-maiden/virgin, - hence the sign
     was more defined and evident when it occured, since almah cannot
     indicate an OLD-virgin/old-maid.

     But that is still a side issue.  The real issue is that over
     and over again, even though we show linguistic evidence, Rabbinic
     quotations, Judaic statements in commentaries showing that Almah
     CAN INDEED bear the meaning of VIRGIN, as does the word betulah -
     it is COMPLETELY ignored!  And instead, slander is leveled, and
     accusations against MJ's that we are stupid or ignorant, or both!

     I will agree that some folks are appearing "stupid" in this
     argument though! :-)

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210  
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: krulwich@zowie.ils.nwu.edu (Bruce Krulwich)
Subject: Re: Almah in Isa 7:14
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences, Evanston, IL
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:57:21 GMT


Harvey.Smith@p0.f1.n7002.z8.FIDONET.ORG (Harvey Smith) writes:

> in EVERY CASE in the Tanakh where the word is used, it refers to a virgin,
> so it means a young maiden, who is a virgin,

First of all, it's irrelevant whether the word refers to a woman who happens
to be a virgin.  The question is whether the word _means_ virgin.  In every
case in Tanach, the women refered to (presumably) have 2 legs, but I wouldn't
claim that the word "alma" should be defined to mean "2-legged women."  The
question is what the word _means_.

A few days ago Laura posted a list of references to "alma" in Tanach, and IN
NO CASE was the virginal status of the woman under discussion in that area of
Tanach, and IN NO CASE was there any reason for the Tanach to use the word for
"virgin," and in fact in some cases it's clear that the woman being discussed
was not a virgin.

I responded to Laura's message with a detailed look at each of the references,
discussing why in each case there's no reason to think the word means
"virgin," and why in several cases we see that it refers to a non-virgin.


Dov (Bruce) Krulwich
krulwich@ils.nwu.edu