HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Campground safety (the men v.s. women thing).
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:22:08 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert) writes:
>1. Do you feel obligated to carry more than your share of the weight (per
>pound) because you are with a woman or conversely do you expect a partner
>weighing 1/3 less to carry 50% of the weight.

I let my wife carry as much as she wants. Often I do carry the stove and
tent and extra communal gear, but I would be happy to let her carry it if
she had a mind to.  What I am really looking forward to is when our two
boys grow up and carry all the gear and I can play old man and carry a day
pack.

>2. Do you feel that the bulk of the responsibility for direction finding,
>fire building, site selection rests on your shoulders? If something goes
>wrong, it is your fault?

If anything goes wrong it is my fault.  :-)  Route decisions tend to be
decided by committee.  If I am sure about things, she defers to me, if I
am unsure, we hold a conference.  I do get reminded of the occasion when
we bushwacked 2 miles in the dark after finishing a rock climb, but I
subject my male partners to the same kind of abuse -- but I don't have to
live with them for years afterwards.

>3. Do you avoid camping with women because they slow you down or don't take
>responsibility? Do you seek female partners out because you feel they might
>be less competitive?

If I am in a hurry, I would hike with someone (male or female) who I knew
wouldn't slow me down.  I am married, so I have sought and found my
female partner.  However, I refuse to play chess with her.

I am trying to remember something I recently read in a Louis L'Amour
Western.  (The fount of all wisdom and knowledge).  It went something
like this:  "When a woman tries to be a man, the best she can do is a
poor approximation.  And everyone is looking for the genuine article."

Women and men are both different, each have their advantages and
disadvantages.  I like them each as they are.  Women are much more fun
to tease than men are (as a general rule).  Men's egos are easier to
manipulate if you want to step up the pace on a hike for instance.

In general I am happy for anyones company that has a reasonable attitude
towards me and towards the outdoors regardless of sex.  Some people are
a pain to share an elevator with, not to mention go on a hike with.
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu
...."There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
.... know what you're talking about." 
                       - John von Neumann  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: more bad reports on MSR filter
Date: 1 Oct 1992 20:57:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu (Dania M. Egedi) writes:
> 
> I've operated the MSR using my left hand and my knees.  I got tired
> of pumping slightly quicker, but it was quite doable.

I can't visualize this.  Perhaps you could send me a digitized photo?
The problem with left-handed pumping is that when you turn the unit
around, the intake hose faces towards you rather than towards the pot
of unfiltered water, so that the hose kinks up and flow ceases.

JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com> writes:
>
> Eating crow: I bragged on my new PUR recently in this space.  Then I
> took a 6 day trip through the BWCA.  The PUR got progressively worse,
> finally needing brushing after every pint.

How did you know it needed brushing?  Did water come out of the automatic
pressure valve in the handle?  This is the normal indication that brushing
is required.  After returning home, did you disassemble to see if the unit
was full of debris?  I don't know what your water quality was like, but
Utah-based users of the Katadyn must brush off the ceramic after every
liter filtered.  At least with a Pur you don't need to disassemble.

rlm@sunlight.Physics.UIowa.Edu (Robert Mutel) writes:
>
> [The MSR] is definitely easier to use than the First Need and lasts
> much longer.

I've never claimed that the First Need is even worth considering.  My
water purification panel even warns about possible E. coli contamination
and recommends against buying the First Need.  Last week a backcountry
reader wrote in to say he'd contracted giardia after religious use of
the First Need.  At $60 compared to $40 for a First Need, the Pur Scout
is A Best Buy for casual use.

The question is whether the Katadyn should be replaced by the MSR or
the Pur Explorer.  Both the MSR and Pur are cheaper, lighter, easier
to use, and better designed than the Katadyn.  Reports from the lab
and the field generally indicate that the Pur Explorer is the better
choice, although the jury is still out.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: Sleeping bag advice/recommendation: LL Bean??
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:38:44 GMT

Speaking of bags - what are people's opinions of L L Bean down bags
(20 rated or 0 rated)?


-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391

[.... old sig has been retired.  New sig isn't ready yet. ]
From: pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: An Insight
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:15:23 GMT
Organization: Computing & Comm. Services, University of Ottawa

In article <Sep28.174436.58657@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>Lying staring at the stars last weekend I had an insight.
>It was one of those clear, moonless, wilderness nights and the
>stars were uncountably many.  From square in the center of my
>vacant unfocussed attention, a realization took shape:
>There's still a LOT of wilderness out there!  What's more,
>its inaccessible remoteness seems inviolable.  Everything
>is not going to hell, only our planet.  Provincial hopelessnes
>was overwhelmed by comforting insignificance.
> 
Hey Wayne!

Give us a bit of time!  We're developing the technology.
there's a lot to be exploited out there, and we will!

-Pete
-- 
Pete Hickey               | Pete@mudhead.uottawa.CA | "If a vegetarian eats
Communication Services    |   or (if desperate)     |  vegatables, then what
University of Ottawa      | petehic@uottawa.bitnet  |  does a humanitarian
Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 564-7646         |  eat?"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard)
Subject: Re: more bad reports on MSR filter
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:48:42 GMT

For all of its slowness, the Katadyn does have the advantage of
being reliable. Perhaps it is due to its simplicity of design?

The MSR Waterworks (and other MSR products) looked and felt
too complex when I tried it out in the store- the more
parts a system has, the better chance it has of failing.
(see Space Shuttle for references) :-) :-) :-)
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: National parks to be opened to strip mining
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:19:05
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Distribution: usa
	<1992Sep29.195915.29617@news.uiowa.edu>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu's message of Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:59:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.195915.29617@news.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:

> It seems clear to me that a fair approach to real-estate law would require
> strip miners to buy the land they intend to mine lock stock and barrel, then
> resell it (typically at a substantial loss) after they've done their best to
> restore it after stripping the coal (or gold, or copper, or whatever).

Indeed.  The Bush administation is being very disingenious when it
says that all it's trying to do is to be fair to the owners of the
mineral rights.  Stip mining destroys the surface of the land, and it
isn't at all unreasonable to say that you can't destroy that land if
you don't own it.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
From: smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 16:49:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Freeze dried food??  What else?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

THe freeze-dried dinners for two are just about right for one, IMO.

scott
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: more bad reports on MSR filter
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:18:17 GMT

While a seemingly noble thing to let readers know here (influence marketing),
it is a far more noble, engineering oriented thing to let MSR know.  MSR has
a history of responding (if some times quirky) to owner complaints.  One
KNOWS they will fix things or discontinue them.  Mail the filter back to MSR
and complain, work with them to fix it, that's the engineering way.
The other way is appropriate for lawyers and sales people and takes longer.

EPA:	comes out with a law
	Japan: throws 100 engineers at the problem
	US: throws 100 lawyers at the problem

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
From: rbw3q@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Whitehurst)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Desert water
Keywords: alkali, deserts
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:17:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Sep28.161755.4793
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Sep25.225217.24893@fcom.cc.utah.edu> bbarkey@lark.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>Hi,
>	Over Labor day, Iwent to the San Rafael Swell
>in central Utah. It's a beautiful place, deep narrow 
>canyons, wild rock formations and still relatively
>untouched. 
>	Water is of course, relatively scarce so 
>we usually bring it in or try to find a spring.
>Sometimes the water is 'alkali'. It tastes pretty
>bad, gives me the runs and makes me a bit weak.
>I don't know what this 'alkali' is, that's just 
>what people call it. I'm assuming that they mean it's
>got a ph > 7 ( acids are ph < 7, I think. It's
>been awhile since chem 101) I also see 'alkali'
>salts in places that have evaporated.
>	My question is, does anyone know what this 
>stuff is. I assume it comes from the rock (it's in some
>springs, not in others, depends on the type of rock) 
>Does anybody know how to neutralize this stuff? I isn't
>bad for you. Cows and some people live off of
>this water.
>		Brian Barkey

	I'm sure it depends just what salts are dissolved in the
water, but this summer I drove out to Utah and all through the SE
corner of the state.  At a rest stop on a secondary highway, there was
a sign warning against drinking the water at the rest stop.  It said
the nitrate content was some 2X higher than the health dept. limit and
should not be drunk except in necessity.  The sign went on to say that
the high nitrate content could interfere with oxygen uptake in the
blood system, and children and pregnant women particularly should
avoid it.
	Depending on the formations the water has been through, it
could have high levels of nitrates, chlorides, sulfates,
bromides, fluorides...well you name it!  Basically, I think too much
of any of the halides would not be good.  And that is not counting
the possible metal contents...arsenic, selenium are two baddies I know
of.  Basically, I would not drink the stuff if possible!
-- 

Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab
rbw3q@Virginia.EDU |   We like it hot...and fast.
From: smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 21:06:23 GMT
Subject: Re: CAPILENE POLYESTER UNDERWEAR???
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

/ hpdmd48:rec.backcountry / vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris) /  1:33 pm  Sep 22, 1992 /
In article <1992Sep17.195608.5292@gw.wmich.edu> x90watz@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
>	I just got the Patagonia Fall/Winter catalog, and I was wondering if
>anyone has had any experience with their Capilene Polyester products.  I'm
>looking for some underwear, and I'm wondering how it stacks up against
>materials such as polypropelene, wool, etc.  

As I Understand It (please correct me if I am wrong):

Capilene is Patagonia's "brand name" for their polypropelene fabric.
They claim it is better than other polypro fabrics.  I have a couple
pair of capilene undershirts and I love them.  In particular, for
colder weather, I like the zip-up turtleneck -- I can unzip it to get
ventilation, or zip it all the way for maximum heat retention.  (Of
course, other polypro shirts may have the same features).
-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - uunet!etnibsd!vsh
----------

Capilene isn't polypropylene, it's polyester. A comparable fabric is
Thermax, which is available from lots of manufacturers (e.g. REI). I was
slow to switch from polypro because I found it wicked better than the
other stuff, but now I use polyester almost exclusively. It is more 
comfortable and lasts a lot longer without losing it's wicking/texture.
I think it absorbs more moisture than polypro, but it dries out so fast
that it performs as well. 

cheers,
scott


'
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: The winner is...
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:53:24 EDT(-0400)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
>     I'm not sure how to spell it, nor care, but, nothing 
> is more offending to me personally than the church groups that
> endlessly sing my least favorite song of all time - it sort-of
> sounds somehting like Kumbaya, or Koombaya, or something ....

Why Greg, you heathen!  How could anyone possibly object to the dulcet tones
of Cumbaya?  Listen closely now

   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
   Oh Lord Cumbaya

There, now wasn't that nice?  Wasn't that ... no, Greg ... oh all right Greg
look in the pocket on the back of the seat in front of you ...

BTW, it doesn't really matter how spell it.  Supposedly, "cumbaya" is a
dialectical corruption of "come by here".  Anyway, I find it difficult to be
offended by anyone singing quiet songs with their own voices.  Certainly not if
the other choices involve boom boxes or shouting matches.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: being safe in the woods
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: mpx2.29SEP199212345119
Distribution: usa
Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In many ways Deliverance provides a back country exemplification of one
>of Hitchcock's recurring major themes:  the innocent and naive protagonist
>thrust into a set of deadly circumstances in which he cannot go for help
>(e.g., to the police) but must rely on his own wherewithal and ability
>in circumstances foreign to his normally placid and safe life;  the
>undercutting of complaceny towards one's environment.
> 
>This notion, that if threatened by others in the backcountry you
>may well be isolated and cut off and really in *danger*, has motivated
>much of the discussion in this and some other threads, it seems to me.
> 
>Getting back to the book...

Deliverance was a good movie based on an even better (some say) book, but I'd
like to comment on the realities of the possibility of danger in the woods.

First, it seems that most posters to this group generally feel that chances
of encountering human aggression in the backcountry are small at best.  I
agree with this opinion.  Most of you (I wish I could say "us") will in all
likelyhood enjoy a lifetime of happy adventures without any violence or
threatened violence while in the woods.  Let it happen to you just once,
however, and I can guarantee that your perspective will change.

To quote an old saying, "There's the way things ought to be, and there's the
way things are."  Ideally, anyone should be able to go freely into the back-
country setting of his/her choice without the worry of being victimized.
I'm sorry, folks, but occasionally bad things happen to good people who did
nothing wrong but be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Again, I agree 
that the chance of this happening to YOU are small, but arguably, some really
bad things occur in the backcountry every year.  The folks who are the
victims of this kind of thing probably thought that they were pretty safe too
until it happened.

I don't want to go into my own bad experiences because I get the feeling that
a lot of the time, recounts of stuff like this get blown up a little bit, and
I don't want to even put myself in the position of being guilty of exaggerating
to prove a point.  Let's just say I've had the Sh*t scared out of me a couple
of times and was lucky enough to escape undamaged.

In conclusion, I have personally decided that there are too many variables 
involved to proceed into the outback without protection.  This probably
goes more to my peace of mind than actual physical protection, but like I
said, let it happen to you just once........

I'd be happy to discuss my choice with any who might have a problem with it.

Happy Trails

Dale
From: pgf@cayman.COM (Paul Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: is it worth having boots resoled?
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:22:57 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge Ma


I have a 5 or 6 year old pair of Merrill's that are in reasonable shape,
except for the Vibram soles, which are close to bald.  Can these be
re-soled?  Is it worth it?

On a related topic, does anyone believe that gore-tex lined leather boots
are worthwhile.  I decided they were worthless when tramping in New
Zealand, where the water tended to pour in the tops while I was knee to hip
deep in a river -- the goretex didn't seem to help.  :-) But seriously --
does gore-tex really hold up in a boot?  Doesn't sno-seal or whatever do
just as much?

paul fox, pgf@cayman.com
-- 
		paul fox, pgf@cayman.com, (617)494-1999
		Cayman Systems, 26 Landsdowne St., Cambridge, MA 02139
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan)
Subject: Montana Clear Cut
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:16:08 GMT

I think someone posted about this the other day, but I got a call
from Greenpeace last night, and thought I would pass this on:

Bill S-1696, the Baucus-Burns Bill, would open 5 million acres (7800)
square miles of land in Western Monatana to clear cutting.

This bill has passed the Senate, and should come before the house on
Wed.

You can get the number of your representative from the Congressional
switchboard:

  (202) 319-2444


-- 
-Tim-

sheehan@ncar.ucar.edu

From: ewg@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ethan Gannett)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:55:50 GMT
Subject: Re: MISSING PERSON LOCATOR
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

In rec.backcountry, juha.veijalainen@compart.fi (Juha Veijalainen) writes:

> As for finding missing persons, from rec.backcountry point of view, I'd 
> stick to organised search parties, helicopters with infra-red cameras etc. 
> conventional methods.

  Call the county sheriff's office if you are aware of a missing/overdue
  person in the backcountry.  The Sheriff can organize the appropriate
  response/resources such as search and rescue (SAR) personnel, trailing/
  air scent dogs etc.

> 
> If you _are_ the person missing (got lost in the woods...), my advise 
> would be: 1) don't get lost, learn to use map and compass 2) if you got 
> lost, stay calm.  You can probably find your way to the civilisation 3) 
> wait for the rescuers - if you have remembered to tell someone where you 
> are supposed to be 4) if everything else fails, panic ;-)
> 

  Let me emphasize the 3rd point, please stay put and don't keep walking if
  you know that someone is aware of your general location and that person
  is intelligent enough to contact the proper authorities if you have not
  returned at the time expected.  Unless it is extremely obvious that you 
  can walk to a point where there is a chance of contacting civilization or
  you really/truly rediscover your bearings, searching for you is just going 
  to be all that much more difficult if you keep moving.  I am a member of a
  local SAR team and have experienced this problem from the searcher's side.
  Simply put, if you keep moving, it will take us longer to find you.  You
  may even compound your dilemma by walking over your own tracks thereby 
  confounding trailing dogs.

  Sit down and keep warm and dry.  If you don't have enough layers to keep 
  warm, start a fire in a safe location to avoid the onslaught of Hypothermia.
  Do what you can to attract attention to yourself by yelling, blowing a
  whistle, using a signal mirror, wearing bright clothes, etc.

Ethan Gannett
From: ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wolves : how to cope with ?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 13:50:06 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu

dp10@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Derek Kirkland) writes:

>as potential prey. Second, running downhill in the backcountry will have 
>you tripping and falling over. I would ask the poster if he has tried his
>own method using the real outdoors, with real bears?? Good luck.

I dunno about bears but I for one am Extremely efficient
running downhill.  Of course, it's not so much "running" as carefully
jumping from one point to the next.

I can imagine a bear being at a disadvantage on such running as compared
with me :-)   But then I've never seen a bear run, and I hear they
are pretty good.

        -ans.
-- 
Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu
From: jsp+@cs.cmu.edu (John Pieper)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Wolf attacks, HA. (was re:Wolves: ho to cope with ?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:37:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon




>From: chris@cdc.hp.com (Chris Schiller)
>Subject: Re: Wolves : how to cope with ?
>Wolves are not a threat to adults.  There has never been a documented 
>case of a non-rabid wolf attacking a human adult in the last hundred years 
>in the US. [stuff deleted]
>Chris Schiller
>chris@cdc.hp.com

That is not too surprising given that most of the wolves in this country
were dead by then.

However, there has been no documented case of a non-rabid wolf attacking
non-infant humans in the entire history of the country, back to the
1600's. There are plenty of cases of wolves chasing humans, chasing
horses and wagons, etc. But wolves, despite lots of literature and a deep
European-based cultural bias otherwise, do not attack human adults. Or at
least, have not attacked human adults in a way that the rest of humanity
learned about. Even back when there were lots of them.

My advice: don't run. Wolves are known to chase their prey for miles until
it drops from exhaustion. If you stand you ground, they will back down.
As with all wildlife, don't feed them. Once an animal learns it can get food
from you, you will be pestered to death.
-----------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry