From: carroll@gloin.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Any Available Jewish Men Out There??
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:35:35 GMT

In article <JMD.92Dec30122013@lion.bear.com> jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
]
]In article <1992Dec30.151732.7879@exu.ericsson.se> exudtn@exu.ericsson.se (Derek Nelson, xt-dL) writes:
]
]   Ah, but Keith. The Jews (Orthodox) are told by their religion to stay
]   separate from the gentiles.  It is a command from G*D.  The so called
]   modern Jewish tradition does allow for interaction.  By her own admission
]   she is conservative and might mean that she leans more to the orthodox 
]   view.  (I don't know I'm just guessing)  Seems like your asking her to 
]   change her spots.  
]
]Bzzzt!  
]
]First of all, according to the bible, a Jew is not permitted to marry
]a non-Jew.  There is nothing which says "stay separate from the
]gentiles".
]
]Conservative Judaism is actually the middle ground between Orthodoxy
]and Reformed Judaism.  The Conservative movement within Judaism
]started as a reaction to the Reformed.  Many wanted to keep the rules
]and traditions which Reformed Judaism discarded, but to modernize --
]especially vis-a-vis the roles taken by women.

Conservative Judaism hasn't taken any "middle ground". Conservative
Judaism is the branch of Judaism that believes that traditional law
should be respected and interpreted in its traditional context, but
that some interpretations must change because of the changes in the
society and world that modern Jews find themselves living in. They do
tend to be less traditionally observant than Orthodox, but I know a fair
of counterexamples to this general observation.

]One of the rules which the Reformed dropped was the prohibition on 
]intermarriage.

Not true! The Reform movement does *not* condone or allow
intermarriage. Please, if you've got to post the beliefs and positions
of the other Jewish movements, make SURE that you've got them right.

]Also note that there are subgroupings in these major headings.  For
]instance, the Hassidim are a sub-group within the orthodox, and
]Lubavich is a sub-group within the Hassidim.

Both the Chasidism and the Modern Orthodox would disagree profoundly that 
the Chasids are a subgroup of the Orthodox.

The movements of Judaism are all seperated by philosophical
differences. Pretending that it's just a spectrum where you can
arrange them all in order, and pigeonhole someone into one of them by
how "religious" you perceive them to be is ridiculous.



]Many people out there seem to get confused about all this.  It looks
]like this:
]
]	Political 			Judaism
]
]				|
]	revolutionary		|	-- Reconstructionist, Revisionist
]				|	\	
]				|	 Reformed 
]				|	/
]	liberal			|	\
]				|	 |
]				|	 Conservative
]	moderate		|	 |
]				|	/
]				|	\
]	conservative		|	 |	-------- Modern Orthodoxy
]				|	 |
]				|	 Orthodox
]				|	 |	-------- Hassidim
]	reactionary		|	 |
]				|	/
]				|
]	
]

This diagram is pure and utter nonsense.

Brief description of the movements:

Hasidism is *very* strongly traditionally observant, but with a  very
large amount of spirituality and mysticism running through all of their
practices. The main different between the Hasids and the Orthodox is the
strong curent of mysticism in Hasidic belief and practice.

Orthodox is also very strongly traditionally observant, but they tend
to believe more in the legal structure of the law than the mystic
side. 

Conservatism is less traditionally observant. Conservative Jews
believe that the laws of the religion have to change to fit the
culture and society of the people who practice the religion. But they
believe that these changes must be made within the traditional
structure of the law and its interpretations. The Conservative
movement is led by the Jewish Theological Seminary, which has a
council of Rabbis that publish Responsa, describing the answers to the
questions of reintepretation that come up.

Reform Judaism tends to be very non-traditional. Reform Judaism
believes that the Religion has to change to match both the changing
society and culture, and the changing personal beliefs and attitudes
of the people who practice it. Reform believes that interpretations of
the law are a personal issue, and that it is the role of the
individual to learn the law, and make decisions for themselves, on the
basis of their own personal beliefs and intepretations.

Reconstructionism is an outgrowth of Conservative Judaism. They broke
from the Conservative movement because they believe that it is not
right for a small council of Rabbis in New York to make decicisions
for communities that exist in a social structure very different from
the Rabbinical community of that council. Reconstructionism believes
that each community should study together, and make decisions for how
things will be done within their community. Nearly everything about
reconstructionist Judaism is strongly centered on the community,
rather than the tradition (as in Orthodox) or the individual (as in
Reform). Reconstructionists tend to be more traditional than Reform,
but not as traditional as Orthodox. Both Reconstructionism and
Conservatism tend to cover a wide spectrum of practice, so there is no
way to compare the level of traditionalism of the two.

]I hope that this clears things up a bit...

I hope this clears things up a bit more. Sorry for posting so long an
article of material that most people won't be interested in, but I
don't want misrepresentations of the beliefs of large numbers of
people to go uncorrected.

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     || "Only love
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS||     can make love"
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || 	-Peter Gabriel
|| carroll@udel.edu             ||