HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Michigan applies for High Speed...
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:35:40 GMT
Reply-To: gurd@wam.umd.edu

Ron Newman writes
> In article <16088@umd5.umd.edu>, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)  
writes:
>  
> |>    DEARBORN, MICH. -- High speed rail travel in Michigan received a  
hefty  
> |> boost recently when the Michigan DOT filed an application with the  
U.S.  
> |> DOT requesting the rail corridor between Detroit and Michigan be  
>                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> How's that again?
> 
> -- 
> Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com

I meant to type in Detroit and CHICAGO....
From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:20:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Trainfest '92 Nov. 14 & 15 in Milwaukee, Wis.
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

/ hplred:rec.railroad / Joe.Russ <Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com> / 10:24 pm  Oct  9, 1992 /

An early reminder that on November 14 & 15, 1992, the Wisconsin
Southeastern (WISE) Division of the National Model Railroad Assocation
(NMRA) will host its 21st annual Trainfest '92 at  Wisconsin State
Fair Park's North Exhibit Hall located at 84th St. and Greenfield Ave.
in West Allis, Wis. (just west of Milwaukee)The show, the one Russ
Larson of MODEL RAILROADER said was "...one of the best, if not THE
best, model railroad show in the country," (February 1992 MR) features
over 92,000 square feet of exhibits, with over 25 operating layouts in
scales from Z to G, numerous hobby shops from across the country,
manufacturer's including W.K. Walthers, Inc. and Kalmbach Publishing,
and other exhibitors including railroad artists, historical societies,
museums. The show also has a video theater and test track. And there
is plenty of free parking!!!
 
 Donations (NO INCREASE over last year!)
 -----------------------------------
 $4 for adults 
 $3 for seniors and NMRA members
 $2 for children 12-18
 Under 12 free with parent
 
 Hours
 ---------------------------------------
 Saturday, November 14, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
 Sunday, November 15, 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
 
To get to Trainfest '92 exit I-94 (from either west or south) at 84th
St. and head south. You won't miss the fair park on your left. 
 
Effective as of September 8, 1992, the word Trainfest and it's logo
are registered trademarks of the WISE Division, NMRA. Please pass the
word along to any groups which may be using that name.
 Joe Russ
 WISE Div., NMRA
-- 
Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
----------
From: mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk (Martin Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:58:29 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]



In case anyone has not seen the press reports in the UK, Eurotunnel have just
announced that the Channel Tunnel is not now expected to open for traffic
until 15th December 1993.  This is because of commissioning difficulties
caused by late arrival of rolling stock, and financial disputes with
the builders.

The half year delay will increase thwe cost of the project significantly, as
the anticipated revenue from the 1993 summer season will not now
be collected.  This will cause some financial problems in the first
year that the Tunnel is open, and there is likely to be another
cash call on shareholders in late 1993/early 1994.

The good news is that traffic forcasts have again been raised, despite the UK
recession, which means that once open, the money will come in a lot
faster.

Martin

--
Dr. Martin Beer,
Department of Computer Science,		Telephone 051-794-3672
University of Liverpool,		Fax: 051-794-3715
Chadwick Tower, P.O. Box 147,           EMail mdb@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
LIVERPOOL.  L69 3BX. United Kingdom.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: CZ94 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: toronto subway
Organization: McGill University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:06:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.041945.3289@ee.ryerson.ca> cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam) writes:
>
>It should be noted that the Prince Edward Viaduct was constructed in
>1917 and provision for the lower deck was built at that time.  Not a
>bad forecast, especially since as late as the 1940's city planners
>were still considering the possibility of an east-west subway line
>along Queen street instead of Bloor!
>
I've heard that when the Queen station was built on the Yonge St.
line (in the early 1950s), provision was made for another, lower
level in the station, for an east-west line along Queen St.  Is
this true?

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: kwyatt@ccscola.Columbia (Kershner Wyatt)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:54:36 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC

>> >>3) The GG1 lasted decades and probably would still be used someplace
>> >>   today if it weren't for the PCB problem in the transformers.
>> >	(more stuff deleted)

Forgive my ignorance.  I wasn't aware that the GG1's had been taken out of
service.  When did that happen?  I thought they were still working the
corridor.  I expect that the metal fatigue referenced was a big contributor,
but did the environmentalists go after PCB's as well?

-- 
Kershner Wyatt
kwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com

My opinions are my own and aren't necessarily my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: slightbo@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Sam Lightbourne)
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Reply-To: slightbo@1.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:11:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.095252@wsl.dec.com>, gnn@wsl.dec.com (George
Neville-Neil) writes:
> In article <1992Oct7.153456.23357@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I.
Petrich) writes:
> |> In article <oeoas1i00WBLM8uMRq@andrew.cmu.edu> Alan Edward Petrillo
<ap2z+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> |> 
> |> >"Did you know that the almighty created the LIRR?"
> |> 
> |> >"Really?"
> |> 
> |> >"Sure, the Bible says He created all things that creepeth and crawleth."
> |> 
> |> >-as quoted in Ron Ziel and George Foster's "Steel Rails to the Sunrise."
> |> 
> |> >This joke is from the early 50's, when the LIRR suffered a succession of
> |> >accidents and a general deterioration of service.
> |> 
Does anyone remember when the LIRR was called "Rocky's Rocket". When Nelson
Rokefeller was governor of NY. Rocket of course was a facetious reference to 
the "speed" of the service.

slightbo@encore.com
From: sven-e@lysator.liu.se (Sven L Eriksson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Does anyone know the status of Amtraks swedish car trials?
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:34:36 GMT
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden

wesley@pws.ma30.bull.com (Wesley Dunnington) writes:

>I remember reading several months ago that amtrack would be testing a
>tilting passenger car made in Sweden for possible use on the Boston-nyc-etc
>run. Has this happened yet? What did they find out?

There have been a lot written about this in the swedish press. I
haven't seen any results yet so maybe the tests aren't finished yet.
"The slowest high speed train of the world" have already been tested
in eastern Germany. But the germans want to use their own high speed
train (ICE (?)) within their borders. But the press were quite happy
about those tests. The big point about the swedish high speed train
(X2000) is that it can run on ordinary tracks. (The french TGV must
have new straight tracks.) The tilting cars allows the train to run
faster in (relatively) tight curves. However the max march speed of
X2000 is 250 km/h compared to TGV's 350 km/h.

I am following the X2000 tests carefully and if there is enough
interrest I will post some excerpts from the results.
From: wesley@pws.ma30.bull.com (Wesley Dunnington)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Does anyone know the status of Amtraks swedish car trials?
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:18:14 GMT

I remember reading several months ago that amtrack would be testing a
tilting passenger car made in Sweden for possible use on the Boston-nyc-etc
run. Has this happened yet? What did they find out?

wesley


--
++Wesley Dunnington                       phone: (508)-294-6149
Bull Worldwide Information Systems        fax:   (508)-294-6109
Billerica, MA                             (at work): wesley@pws.ma30.bull.com
                                          (at play): wesley@world.std.com
From: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se (Per Harwe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Does anyone know the status of Amtraks
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:21:27 GMT
Reply-To: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Business Communications, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              The opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 21023@engage.pko.dec.com, pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>In article <wesley.718924694@darth>, wesley@pws.ma30.bull.com (Wesley
>Dunnington) writes...
>>I remember reading several months ago that amtrack would be testing a
>>tilting passenger car made in Sweden for possible use on the Boston-nyc-etc
>>run. Has this happened yet? 
>	Hasn't happened yet.  There was a note in the current RGI that the cars
>	for the test had just started testing in Sweden.  I believe that they
>	will complete and send an entire train (power cars plus trailers) even
>	tho AMTRAK would only be testing the trailers alone, with turbo's for
>	power.

I just saw a note in a Swedish paper that the cars have left Sweden. The first
stop is a port somewhere in continental Europe. They should be in the U.S.A.
early November.

---
Per Harwe       	 	       | Internet: ebuhwe@ebu.ericsson.se
Ericsson Business Communications, Inc. | UUCP:   uunet!ericsson.com!ebuhwe
Anaheim, CA.			       |
The opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Aircraft Parts Cars
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:53:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.143258.6840@ee.ryerson.ca> iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.181715.16484@athena.mit.edu> sathomas@athena.mit.edu (Stephen A Thomas) writes:
>>On a recent trip to LA, I was fortunate to have a college buddy give me a plant
>>tour of the Northrop F/A 18 assembly facility.  Parked outside of the assembly
>>building were a couple of fairly large, squarish, oversize (white on ends of
>>roof) cars, which were freight car red and I believe lettered for the SP or UP. 
>[stuff deleted]
>
>Up here in Toronto, McDonnel-Douglas has a large plant which makes wing
>subassemblies for the DC-10 line of aircraft.  They have specially 
>constructed "flatcars" to transport the completed wings to the 
>assembly plant south of the border.
[more stuff deleted]

 Boing does the same thing. I don't quite rember the from-to, but I know
they ship the nose and tail assemblys of jumbo jets from east of
Minneapolis on the BN to their plant in Washington (? or somewhere
west). To all of these hard facts, I recal seeing an article on these
shipments in Railfan and Railroad. About the same time, a BN train with
747 parts derailed and caused no end of trouble for Boing because the
delieveries are all timed s.t. the parts will be on their door step the
day they need them. 
 I saw one of these train go through BN's Northtown yard in the Twin
Cities. There were two cars immediately behind carring what looked like
a c-130 w/o wings.



   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs         zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:55:38 GMT

In article <BvsIDw.KGM@access.digex.com>, terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry
Fry) writes...
>In article <26692@dog.ee.lbl.gov> wbrown@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Bill Brown)
>writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.181819.14844@Princeton.EDU> jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
>>(John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
>>	(stuff deleted)
>>>3) The GG1 lasted decades and probably would still be used someplace
>>>   today if it weren't for the PCB problem in the transformers.
>>	(more stuff deleted)

>>I seem to recall reading that the cast steel underframes were failing
>>due to metal fatigue.  Many had been repaired by welding, but that sort
>>of thing has its limits.

>I think also that there was a big push to move to 60hz power, removing
>the expensive converters required on the line.  The GG1's
>were not rectifiers, I am assuming they were AC wired?
	There was/is a move to go to 25 Hz.  (one day, if boredom overtakes, I
	will enter snatches of a recent IEEE paper, by a 1940's vintage
	Electrical Engineer for the PRR, (retired) on the reasons that would be
	a "bad thing".)

	The GG1 is/was a "straight AC" locomotive, using twin armature, series,
	compensated, AC traction motors.  They, and the transformer, were
	designed for 25 Hz.  Results on 60Hz would be marginal to awful.
	
thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
146 Main St			|I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass		01754	pierson@msd27.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Water scoops 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:58:40 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Oct16.030619.9198@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>,
by zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN):
> 
>  I am currious about the mechanics involved with these water scoops. e.g.
> where was the the water held (between the rails or outside)?

There were long pans between the rails, probably 3 feet wide and a foot
deep.

> How long of a run did it talke to fill a tender or how much water could
> they take on?

A pan less than 1/4 mile long would be difficult to use!  Think of hitting
it at 60 miles an hour - that means you've got a 15 second window during
which you, as the fireman, try to get the scoop down, take on water, and
get it up again.

If you figure a 6 inch safety margin all around, your scoop will skim
a 6 inch by 2 foot slab of water out of the 1 foot by 3 foot pan.  That
means it gets a cubic foot of water for every foot traveled down the pan.
Now, figure your tender tank is 10 feet wide, 5 feet deep and 30 feet long.
To fill it, it takes 1500 cubic feet of water, so your scoop has to be in
the pan for only 1500 feet, or a bit over 1/4 mile.

That means that 1/2 mile pans ought to do well.

> Were they successful?

Yes, at least during the era when fast non-stop passenger service was a big
status issue with the railroads.

> Was there a lot of dammage associated with their use?

I assume a stupid fireman could rip the scoop off, but the pans had ramps
at each end to prevent the scoop from trying to scoop up ballast or ties.

There are spectacular photos of trains taking on water with a scoop.  The
splash is tremendous.  Think of the rate at which a scoop takes on water.
All you have to do is translate miles per hour to feet per second, and then
think of one cubic foot of water per foot of travel.  When the tender fills
to overflowing with the scoop down, you get close to 100 gallons per second
of overflow!
				Doug Jones
				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ufe@dlva.dl.ac.uk ()
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Reply-To: ufe@dlva.dl.ac.uk ()
Organization: SERC Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:52:08 GMT

Class 20's are being used at both ends for track laying and fitting out
trains (spoil was brought out using a narrow gauge system). These locos
are hired to the contractors (Monocol and others) by RFS Industries.
RFS have their own fleet which has been supplemented by some from
preserved railways (who get the loco refurbished for free).
Other locos, at the British end, include DB cl212 (Ithink) Bo-BoDH
locos, and a wide selection of industrial locos including some of
the ng locos which have been regauged.
Cheers,
	Mark
========================================================================
Mark Enderby			   JANET - ENDERBY@UK.AC.DARESBURY
Systems Manager		  	   EARN/Bitnet - ENDERBY@DARESBURY.AC.UK
SERC Daresbury Laboratory
Keckwick Lane						
Daresbury
Warrington	tel:   0925-603353
WA4 4AD		Int:+44-925-603353
UK		fax:   0925-603174
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Montreal commuter trains
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:04:32 GMT
Organization: McGill University

Yesterday (Oct. 15) the Quebec Ministry of Transport announced
the granting of a $17 M contract to Canac (a CN subsidiary)
for upgrading the CN line from Montreal to Deux-Montagnes, for
use by commuter trains.  The work will include replacing the
rails with continuous welded rail, improvements to the electrifi-
cation system, rebuilding stations (including some new stations
where the line crosses freeways), and expanded parking lots.
Electrification will be extended slightly farther north, from
Deux-Montagnes to the crossing of Highway 640.

Work on the line will result in service being suspended for
the months of July and August 1993.  For 3 weeks on each side of this
period, service will be limited to rush hour.

A $100 M contract had previously been awarded to Bombardier for
new rolling stock for this service.  This will consist of 29
two-car MUs (one motor and one trailer).  Delivery is scheduled
to begin in July 1994 and be completed in 1995.

Running time from Montreal Central Station to Deux-Montagnes is to
be reduced from 45 to 35 minutes.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:25:31 GMT

Previously, I wrote:
>
>The information I have says that at the time of the building of the
>first street railway (then horse-drawn) the most common horse-drawn
>buggy had wheels with a gauge just under 4'-10".  They set the guage
>of the tracks to 4'-10"...

I have checked several sources, and all tell me that it is in fact
4' - 10 7/8".  I stand corrected.

Also, my sources state that this was the standard wheel guage for
English buggies at the time, and as many buggies in Toronto were
English-built, they followed it.

Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: GT rerouting Michigan trains over CR
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:37:57 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Just heard the Conrail Kankakee Dispatcher giving CN 239, engine 9655
a form D to travel down the Michigan line, and down the Kalamazoo
Secondary Track to Elkhart. GT train 255 was behind him too.
I guess they must be rerouting after the accident a friend of mine called
me and told me about. Evidently, yesterday morning(Tuesday) a local was
working the Stone Container in Mishawauka, and a thru freight plowed into
him, no fatalities, just a few injuries. 
They are currently re-routing a couple trains, 239 and 255, I can hear 239
blowing through Kalamazoo right now. They will probably, to my best guess,
srun down to Elkhart, then to South Bend, still on Conrail, then go back
onto GT at South Bend

Fred Ochs
(wishing they'd come by my dorm here at Western!!)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: sathomas@athena.mit.edu (Stephen A Thomas)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:23:21 GMT

I agree with the poster whose main assertion was that electrics have fewer moving
parts, cooling is easier, and you aren't carrying around much of the electrical
and mechanical gear because it is sitting at the side of the track.

I think another issue is the maintenance of the catenary system itself.  This
should be factored into the comparison of Electric vs. Diesel.  However, I
believe this maintenance cost to be fairly low.  My evidence is:  stretches of
catenary along the NEC Connecticut Shore Line which obviously still exist from
the New Haven era due to the triangle structure of the attachments.  This means
that it has not needed replacement for approx. 20 years!

Has anyone considered another very important issue in today's world?  Electrics
create significantly lower pollution than their Diesel counterparts.  This is
even taking into account the stationary power plants needed to send the juice
down the wire.  Think of it this way:  one power plant produces electricity for
many locomotives - it can be maintained better and be more efficient than the
multiple power plants distributed hundreds of miles across a system as is
necessary for Diesels.  Higher efficiency = Lower pollution.

Maybe we should rethink our diesel logic a little!

STEVE THOMAS

MIT Aero/Astro
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: garbage trains, money trains, and other novelties for out of towners.
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:22:00 GMT

Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen) writes:
>
>Toronto's subway has garbage trains (or at least one garbage train, anyway),
>for the same reasons that the New York subway does. It starts its run
>while regular subway trains are still running. It's an aluminum car (all
>Toronto's revenue subway cars are aluminum now; the original, red
>Gloucester cars were sold to Lima, Peru, I think) with circular windows.

As I mentioned in a previous post, this is a single car that may be operated
from either end, as opposed to the revenue cars that must be semi-permanently
coupled in pairs.

Most of the G-cars were solt to Lima, Peru.  A pair were sold (maybe donated)
to the Halton County Radial Railway Museum north-east of Toronto.  They
plan to eventually install pantographs; but the roof must first be
re-inforced.  When they first got them, they basically had an "extension
cord" arrangement to take the power from the overhead.

The TTC still has at least one pair of the red G-cars currently at the
Greenwood yard.  By the way, although most of the G-cars were painted red
with a yellow stripe, there were a small number that were silver with a
red stripe.

>The plastic garbage bags have TTC printed on them, possibly to discourage
>TTC employees from taking them home. 

This is probably similar to the toilet paper used in government offices
in Great Britian that has something like "Property of her majesty's
civil service" printed on every square!

>There's some other work equipment that I haven't seen except in
>photographs. I think at least one piece of subway work equipment was
>rebuilt from a PCC streetcar.

I somewhere have a list, albeit a few years old, of what they have.
Like the surface rail grinding car, the subway system has a pair of
old PCC's that are now a rail grinding car and painted yellow with black
stripes.  Conversion is not too difficult as both the TTC's streetcars
and subways are on 4'-10" guage track.  Note though, that the Scarborough
RT uses standard 4'-8.5" track!


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.