From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: authors not Crowley
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BuA1oI.M1y@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085r6qm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes...
>In article <Bu9I9y.90p@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes...
>>In article <Bu8K9M.JFJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085r6qm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Erin D Markle) writes...
>>> 
>> 
>I sent Kethry some E-mail(is that the term), and went into
>this just a bit... 

Who is Kethry and what does s/he have to do with this?

>To clear up any misunderstanding, which I
>leave more than enough room for, my meaning of the word
>"Christ" wasn't to specifcally implicate Jesus. The concept
>of Christ is that of whatever -manifest or unmanifest-
>force that makes our connection with the universal totality
>possible. Some call it "godself," I'm sure there is a
>wide variety of names and faces. As far as the Jesus
>signifigance, IF he was a Christ, or the physical manifes-
>tation of THE Christ, then there is value in the metaphors
>of "bridge," "Son of Man/Son of God

OK.  I thought it possible you meant this, but since I wasn't 
sure, I answered in terms of a more literal JC interpretation.  
What you're talking about could also be called (quabala) 
ascending to Tiphereth, (raja yoga) reaching the higher I, or 
(thelema) conversation with the holy guardian angel.  (Some may 
make a distinction between path and sephiroth here, but I don't 
understand the distinction, so won't try to explain it.)

In your first post you mentioned that this experience was 
*necessary* to reach one's full potential.  Blanket statements 
like that make me a little nervous.  There could well be persons 
who feel they have reached their true self without 
experiencing any of the above - possibly satanists?

>And many others taught to us by our dogmatic (if not
>"corrupted") Christian teachers. Organized Christian religion,
>Ithink we could generally agree, is far removed from the original
>message. And like all enduring ideas, there is great truth
>at it's core. 

Well, I agree with you.  But there are Christians into magick who 
might think you just haven't looked close enough.  (Watch out for 
your sweeping generalities.)

>(see also my humble -if not inane- 666 commentary in the
>Pentagram discussion if you care to get more insight into
>my muddled views on Christ/Antichrist)

I read it.  Very imaginative.

>in the updated: the godself does have a lot of creadence in
>being essential in the use of magic(k). But "not necessarilly"
>could very well still be accurate.

All depends on the individual.  Some find a godself makes it 
easier for them to focus.  Me, with all the godstuff jammed down my 
throat at a young age, I can't deal with personified gods.  When I 
first started with magick I read a Crowley exercise that said to pick 
a god and worship it.  Major bummer, I thought, but I'll try any mental 
exercise.  I picked Air - least offensive thing I could think of 
- and worshipped Air for awhile.  But it got boring.  Air just 
didn't seem to have any personality.  I quit after a few weeks 
and never reached the mystical this-or-that I was supposed to 
reach.  With magick, as with anything else, its very individual 
and some things just seem to work for me better than others.  I 
croak on personified gods, so don't use them.  But they do help 
me organize and use information.  When someone mentions Jesus 
Christ I know exactly what is meant.  I use god concepts as 
macros to organize thoughts and feelings and for that I find them 
useful.

>>>have gathered though,that this recognition takes quite a
>>>load off so that eating and scratching your butt can be 
>>>more freely enjoyed. I DON'T KNOW. 
>> 
>>I don't understand this analogy.  Butt scratching has never been 
>>a part of my magickal practice.  Is this something you recommend? 
>
>I don't mean to miscommunicate so much. All I really meant
>was that you don't have to be "Christian" to use magick 
>anymore than you have to be "Christian" to poop. 

True.  (IMO)  few Christians do magick.  Most Christians (not 
all, Amanda) (IMO) perform prayer and rituals in such an 
automatic way, without projecting enough into it, that it really 
isn't magick.  In fact, I don't think Christian churches approve 
of magick done by the members, only magick down by the 
intermediaries - priests, etc...

>Though
>it does seem that recognizing the Christ Self, or God Self
>as being a force that resides within us, takes a lot of
>pressure off of our personalities. We don't have to produce
>a personal godliness in order to function... magically or
>bodily. A WHOLISTIC STRESS RELIEF

I think there's more too it than this.  It helps us to get past 
the ego driven part of us - I'm this, I'm that....  Helps one 
reach the true self - not the rational self or the going to work 
self or the spouse, parent, son, daughter self.  

[lots of stuff deleted...]

>COOL-- this is what I was looking for.

What were you looking for?  I'm not sure what you liked, or why 
you liked it?

- Peggy -