From: lenox@shelley.u.washington.edu (Amy Lenox)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: control
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:53:20 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu

A request to Paul Brinkley to leave in attributions so that when someone
quotes his articles someone like PHoney doesn't screw up on the reading
of such.

I still don't mark deletions.

In article <lmdd6qINNird@ar-rimal.cs.utexas.edu> brinkley@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Brinkley) writes:
>Another poster joins the thread...
>
>3 >s - Adrienne Regard.
>2 >s - myself, earlier this week.
>1 >  - Amy Lenox.
>
>>>...To me, it's possibly a human life.
>>>From the evidence so far, to me, it's _probably_ a human life.  To be more
>>>accurate, it's probably a human life entitled to protection under the law.
>>
>>Ummm, how do you argue the "entitled to protection under the law" in
>>the US?  I don't think you can.  So far, it is just your opinion.
>
>Fair enough.
>
>>Not only that, once you establish some sort of rights or state interest,
>>then one argues conflicting rights - something you fail to address.
>
>Now we're starting to move from emphasis on civil rights/liberties to a
>more legal-wise discussion.  Unfortunately, I'm not extremely familiar with
>legal terms or processes, in that I am not a law major.

Actually we haven't moved from the rights/liberties discussion since
the establishment of rights/liberties of the z/e/f is still in 
question.  It may not be a question for you, Paul.  But since you
are proposing changes to the legal system, you should understand
the legal ramifications of what you argue and be able to support
it with arguements grounded in "legalities".

>I was up until now under the impression that any human life _was_ a state
>interest, from what I know of it.  If you could specify exactly what a
>state interest entails, I would be happy to try to address it.

Let us be very careful with terminology here, Paul.  You use the phrase
"human life".  Is that supposed to be the same as a person, IYO?  Or is
equivalent to human cellular respiration?  Or something else?  If you
equate "human life" to a person, note that the US does not currently
recognize a z/e/f as a person* and you must argue against the status quo.
Terminology can mess people up later so it is better to clarify things
before moving on.  The next questions might explore what you think a
person is, what is deserving of rights, etc...  I'd say it would be 
foolish to go forward without knowing what you are saying.

* i.e. an entity deserving or possessing rights

>>>>Now, before you jump into that one with both feet, ask yourself if ANYBODY
>>>>EVER gets to use my body without my consent.  
>>>>
>>>>The answer, Paul, is "no".
>>
>>>I hope this is not intended as a threat.
>>
>>Could you explain why you might think of this as a threat?  
>
>The statement is similar to one used by some women as a firm indication of
>their position on the issue.  Over time, it often become a statement of
>belligerence and defiance, and has the effect of raising emotions over the
>boiling point.

That is not like any definition of threat that I've seen.  Are you 
assuming that statements like these may lead to physical harm?  It
would be reaching to assume any such thing, IMO.  Being emotionally
harmed by having one's poor arguments ripped to shreds notwithstanding.
Emotions can be raised from time to time.  I certainly did not read 
any emotional messages in what Adrienne wrote.  Perhaps you could
address the question I posed earlier and come up with some examples 
in the US legal system that contradict Adrienne's statement.  I believe
she was trying to point this out to you but you seem to wrap yourself
up in accusations of emotionalism without addressing the point.

>I hope my reply didn't aggravate the condition, and I don't want to accuse
>Adrienne of anything.  I won't bring this part of my post up again unless
>asked.

I only ask that you address her point.

Amy Lenox
standard disclaimer


Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism