HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:39:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.212533.28069@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>So that's it?  There was Stonewall and nothing else?  Anywhere?  At any
>time?  Nothing before?  Nothing after?  Not a single victory worth 
>celebrating or a loss worth mourning?  Just Stonewall?

It appears that "astonishingly naive" was right on the
money.

While there have been other notable victories and losses
and other high-profile public protests, the Stonewall riot
was a remarkable event.  I would venture that it's on a par
with the events that led to the modern-day celebration of
Hanukah (which seems to me to be about Jewish militarism
and a particular victory - that miracle business is pretty
incidental).  Not only were we fighting back and reclaiming
our neighborhood *for days*, but the ones in the thick of
it were the most marginal members of our community.  The
Stonewall Rebellion was dramatic and heroic in a way that
very little has been before or since.  
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: BAR Manners in Boston....
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:40:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.233401.2428@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> Like I said before they do exist elsewhere --- I refuse to belive
> there is any geographical dependency on people's abilty to handle
> the [about darts] situation...

  Does this apply to Bostonian's legendary driving abilities as well?

		Mike, unconvinced that this statement
		      is sufficient to dismiss an otherwise
		      dumb statement.

PS: :-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shelmrei@nmsu.edu (Stephen Helmreich)
Subject: help request
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:44:39 GMT



A few days ago I noted a post here (in response to one of Walter
Smith's asking for documented cases of job discrimination, I believe)
about a person who had been fired from a fast-food chain after a
co-worker's mother called up to complain to the manager about her son
having to work next to a gay person, despite the fact that the person
in question was described as "one of their best workers."  

Someone else here in Las Cruces NM mentioned that this incident
occurred at a LOTA-burger in Albuquerque -- a fact I didn't notice
when I read the post.  However, such a documented case would be
extremely useful in demonstrating the need for fairness legislation
here in New Mexico.  

If anyone still has that post (it's been deleted from our queue here)
or if the original poster reads this, could you send a copy or further
information directly to me at shelmrei@nmsu.edu?  (I read about 30
motss messages a day--from the tail end of the queue to keep down the
urge to post.  I figure that someone else will have already made any
response I think of making--true at least 90% of the time.)

Thanks in advance.

		Steve Helmreich (shelmrei@nmsu.edu)
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:53:54 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <73159@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

|> It's an excellent example of his retarded approach to social 
|> interaction -- which is laden with whining and hypocrisy.

Physician, Heal thyself.



FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wood@siemens.com (Jim Wood)
Subject: Re: Career Change Restricts Access to soc.motss
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:49:00 GMT

mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:

>Hi, Friends --

>I'm now a machinist, no longer an engineer here at HP ...

>The most important part of all this is that I had an 
>excuse to buy some *BIG* *BLACK* *BOOTS* to protect
>my tender tootsies from the *FILTHY* *OILY* *FLOOR*!

Do you have thick silver spurs on those boots? :-)

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:43:23 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Tom Chatt) rites:

>What did everybody else do?

Watch a big Duraflame log in the fireplace and listen to Buddy Guy.  After
what I went through from 26-Dec through 30-Dec, it was all I could handle.
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Responding to Bible quotes
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:36:24 GMT

tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>A friend is getting a lot of shit from his Bible banging sister.  You'd 
>think I would have been smart enough to save one of the many "The Bible
>and homosexuality" FAQs and FAQ-like(tm) postings.  However, I
>haven't. 
Well, dear, *I* was. :-) [Or better, someone else was, and they mailed it
to me so I could put it in the QRD.] There are a bunch of files in the QRD
on this subject. Mostly in the /pub/QRD/qrd/text and /pub/QRD/qrd/info
directories. Look for fildes with "bible" in the name. They're so big
they are compressed.
> 
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  "D.C. IN 93!"
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"The Queer Resources Directory: Anonymous ftp to 128.2.35.7, cd /pub/QRD."
From: cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones)
Subject: Blood donations at UCLA
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1
Organization: University of California Los Angeles
Date: 11 Jan 93 07:37:46 PST

A lot has been on my mind lately, so I apologize for not posting this
sooner.

I tried to donate blood last month here at the UCLA Blood Donor Center. 
I had never given blood before (i hate needles), but this was to help a
coworker (also my supervisor) who was having a bone marrow transplant.  I
went to the donor center and answered their questionaire of 41 yes/no
questions.  Question 6 was "If male, have you, even once, had sex with
another man since 1977?"  So I answered yes.  When the worker went over
the form with me, she said that she had never seen anyone answer yes to
that question and had to look it up (she wasn't a regular there).  She
pulled out the big notebook and proceeded to inform me that  I would have
to get a "permanent deferral," which means I can never donate blood at
UCLA (or anywhere else).  This is due to federal, state, and Red Cross
rules.
 
I explained to her that I am gay, and that I have been in a monogomous
relationship with the same person for over 4 years, and that he is my
first (and only) partner (same for him).  I also pointed out that a
promiscuous heterosexual could donate, and that I was much safer.  She
was symapthetic, but I was still disqualified.

I understand their concern with the blood supply, but that they don't
consider heterosexual activity (except with prostitutes) in their
questioning isn't fair.  The boyfriend of a high school friend of mine
said that he had the same thing happen to him, but when he tried to
donate the question was "Are you homosexual," which meant that lesbians
were excluded.  So I guess that this is progress.

BTW, that coworker passed away on Friday.  It's a good thing that it
wasn't for lack of blood availability.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Jones                 | Do I need someone here to scold me or do I
Network Manager            | need someone who'll grab and pull me out of
UCLA Physiological Science | this four poster dull torpor pulling
cjones@physci.ucla.        | downward?                 -- 10,000 Maniacs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Matters of Attraction
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 02:31:37 GMT

In article <mattm-040193154021@mcmelmon.apple.com>
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Much has been made over being wanted for physical, as opposed
>to non-physical (ok, ok - *intellectual*) attributes.  I, however,
>do not subscribe to the notion that 'physical' attributes are
>somehow 'lesser' than intellectual ones.  So far as I am concerned,
>being wanted because one is a bubble-butted beach blond is 
>'equal' to being wanted because one knows how Isadora Duncan 
>died. 

Tell me, my lads, what you know
Of how the dieffenbachia grow.
And can you speak at length, my dear,
Of silent films, of Gide's career?

Oh, all I really know 
Is how I look and what I wear.
All other thought a dreary bore,
And in this case, why ask for more?

   -- Mary Ellen Young, 1956

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: cbap09@uk.ac.strath.ccsun ("G.I.Barrie", Chemistry)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:54:41 GMT
Reply-To: cbap09@uk.ac.strath.ccsun
Organization: Strathclyde University Sun Workstations.


>Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
>may be within the gay community. Is there any special
>preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?

I alternate between Cool Water by Davidoff and Fahrenheit
(can't remember the manufacturer). I think Fahrenheit gives
me the biggest turn on - although one of my friends wears
Obsession for Men and that almosts makes me sweat...:-)



			Gavin.

---
"Is The Loch Ness Monster Real Mummy?"
"Closets are for clothes."     cbap09@uk.ac.strath.ccsun
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss and MOW
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:46:10 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <C0o680.AF3@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>Are there any other motssi who are planning to participate in the
>CD on April 26?  "Might like you betta if we were arrested together."

What's a CD?  Call for Discussion?  

-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:26:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.112401.28898@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>I think they're preposterous.
>Seems a rather outsized reaction, to me.

I only think about it if the topic comes up.

>>Not the gay men I hang out with.  A very few of my friends
>>and acquaintances might, I suppose, but they have their own
>>bathrooms, so I am spared any sense of personal assault.
>Assault?  Good heavens, is it as dreadful as that?  Are
>women assaulted by cremes and moisturizers too?

Jess, I'm talking about my _bathroom counter space_ being assaulted,
in the way that Arne's was by his roommate's boytoy.  All these cosmetics
take up space that I need for my Preparation H tubes.  Otherwise, out
of sight (and scent), out of mind.

>I wonder if the problem here is the perception that this stuff is not
>butch enough for some folks.

See below.

>I have one friend who does this.  Since I've always loved
>him wildly and would marry him on the spot, I'm prepared to
>forgive him anything, even his tacky cologne.  

I am equally magnanimous, short of marriage.

>If you *had* to choose one, which would you take: the stink
>of cheap cologne or the stink of tobacco smoke?  If you had
>to choose one, would you be more likely to throw up at the
>smell of cheap cologne or at the smell of burning beef fat?
>My point is: compared to what?

The stuff they wear isn't cheap, though.  Strong cologne is less unpleasant
than tobacco smoke, but I'd prefer neither.  Perfume inserts inside otherwise
readable magazines provoke me to murder.

>Even stranger than what turns people on is what turns them
>off, eh?  I mean, if one is going to be grossly intolerant,
>at least it's nicer not to do it over something that really
>matters.

Where's the gross intolerance?

>Not you, necessarily, but quite a few men, gay and straight
>and otherwise, are conditioned not to use any of this stuff
>because it's woman-identified.  God forbid anyone should get
>the idea we're not Real Men.

I don't think you need to identify an aversion to such products with
latent misogyny.  There are other reasons to be suspicious of them.

>Whatever happened to different strokes for different folks?
>Maybe it's time for Lipstick Liberation for Boys.

Guess what: it's already happened.  But it's not called "lipstick",
it's called "moisurizing emollient color enhancing rod" and you can buy
it at the men's cosmetics counter at Macy's.  This is another reason I
find this stuff so annoying, speaking of latent misogyny.  If men want
to use makeup, why do they purchase euphemisms?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:11:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.131855.745@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.043332.18658@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
>(Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>>!!!!  Ooh, that's funny; when I am confronted with a hairy Armenian,
>>eating comes to mind, but not food...
>
>Food for the gods, Steve, food for the gods!
>
>He wasn't especially hairy, but he was Armenian, and when
>George Stambolian's mother would send him packages of baked
Armenian baking is the most underrated in the world! In Glendale,
Los Feliz and East Hollywood there are literally dozens of them.
My favorite is Panos, recently moved to Santa Monica Blvd (but
decidely *not* in Boy's Town!); they are the ultimate in pistachio
bakalava.

>[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To eat, to love, to sing, and to digest; in truth, these are the four
acts in this opera bouffe that we call life, and which vanishes like 
bubbles in a bottle of champagne."     --Gioacchino Rossini
From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Wil Wheaton at MacWorld!!!!!
Keywords: ARRRRGHGHGHGHG!
Date: 9 Jan 93 15:07:16 GMT
Organization: sdf public access Unix, Dallas -- 214-436-3281

In article <76203@apple.apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>And *I* - who have a Wesley Crusher postcard pinned to the
>wall of my cube - *cannot* *go*.  No.  *I* am stuck here,
>where I have to set up fifty some odd macs and four big 
>old IBMs sose as Very Important Developers will be happy,
>and sose as there will be a Macworld *next* year - where
>I can probably *again* miss the beefcake...

I think that Wil Wheaton has an adorably cute *twink* face and smile....
But to call "the-boy-with-no-box" Crusher a *beef* *cake* is overdoing
it a wee bit, no?

-- 
Steve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240
marco@sdf.lonestar.org
loveyameanit.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:36:45 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <8456@news.duke.edu> dblakele@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Blakeley MD) writes:

>You can imagine my suprise when I moved down to the Carolinas and asked
>where there were some decent barbecue resturants.  I quickly learned that
>in the central and eastern Carolinas, barbecue is not pork that has been
>grilled with gallons of spicy, sweet red sauce.  No, down here when you
>order "barbecue" it's pork that's been slow roasted until it falls off 
>the bone, shredded and mixed with a load of spices and vinegar.  That and
>it's topped off with pitchers of sweet tea.  You try telling them that
>it's not barbecue, and you may not live to walk out the door.  Especially
>down around Wilmington, NC.

Ooohhh, babeeeee...it's 4:30 PM, I've almost caught up with the weekend
crush of posts, I'm going to be here at work until 9 PM EST, and here's
this _beastly_ person from Blue Devil country (I won't _even_ mention a
score of 80-79 ;-) tawkin' 'bout bar-b-cue when I won't git suppa foe
a good 5 hours.

Pork BBQ, warm cole slaw made with vinegar, garlic bread, and tea so 
sweet and thick it could be mistaken for Karo dark syrup.  Mmmmmmm...

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Unvarying standards of male unattractiveness
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:04:54 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <18293@autodesk.COM>, owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) wrote:

> It *was* a battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness,
> after all. Lucifer and his skilled artisons,
> against Yahweh  and his skilled warriors. The fallen angels
> protecting their children against the valiant victors who would have them
> slain. By the way, Lucifer means light bearer, what do you suppose that
> makes the other guys? Yahweh was known as the thunderer .

The concept of God/gods guarding their knowledge from use/abuse by
men is hardly unique to the Yahweh cults.  You will recall the
Promethean myths revolve around the gods seeking to prevent
the creations of Prometheus (humanity) from acquiring fire.  That
Prometheus gives man fire is cause for his being chained to a 
rock and being eaten by an eagle for eternity (i.e. sent to Hell).

In Japanese mythology, the sun Goddess Amaterasu must sometimes
be 'tricked' by the other gods into allowing her light to fall
upon the Earth.  In primitive American mythology, various totems
are responsible for giving knowledge to man, and various totems
are responsible for keeping it from him.  In these religious,
no particularly attempt is made to force morality into the story,
and the Yahweh cults are no exception - and I am *very* skeptical
that Lucifer, per se, appears in the earliest Hebraic writings.

God/Satan are latter additions - plastering over a tremendous
amount of subtlety.  There is no particular concept of The Devil
in early Judaism - he was neither required for mythical consistency,
nor even plausible.  The unpleasantness readily visible in the
world could be ascribed to Yahweh's wrath - there was not need
for The Devil.  Furthermore, an All Powerful Being of Yahweh's
temperment would hardly suffer the existence of a lesser, opposed
power.  The Christian God - being "pure" - could not conveniently
be blamed for the fact that life's a bitch.  Furthermore, as
a "forgiving" God - it is plausible that he would allow a wayword
"angel" to live, despite his opposition.

And the Hebrews were, by necessity, a warrior-dominated tribe.
They were small relative to their war-like neighbors.  Any
Light-Versus-Darkness elements of early Hebraic myth is tripe.
It was a matter of survival, not morality.  It was "Don't paint
picture, my boy, or you'll end up a slave to the Egyptians."
It was not "Don't paint pictures, my boy, or you will be
doing the Devil's work."

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Glendale
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:16:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.162139.19231@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>And, after all, aside from having Dinah Shore sing
>in a sleepy, narcotized voice about Glendale as "Glendale Federal',
>and being the place where Joan Crawford escaped /from/ in "Mildred
>Pierce", it really doesn't have a lot to say for itself, or to be proud of.

Doesn't it have the largest Armenian community outside of Yerevan?  Yum.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:01:04 GMT

(Mike Reaser) writes:

>Roux is either gray or sickly yellow, depending on the grease base
>used (meat drippings, or butter/margarine).


Take it from one who has lived in the "Cajun" part of Louisiana for 
the past 12 years, if your roux is yellow, you ain't doing it right!
 
:-)
 
>I have no idea how you define "Deep South",
 
Basically, any location cursed with (what I call) The 
Southern Baptist Mentality. This is the concept of a place 
where each neighbor is spying on the other neighbors trying 
to catch them having a good time.


Cities which are infamous for this:
Jackson, Mississippi
Montgomery, Alabama
Shreveport, Louisiana
Macon, Georgia


It is a fact that it is illegal to drink beer on your *own* front
porch in Montgomery. The reasoning is: your neighbors may see you
drinking and be offended. It *is* legal to drink on your back porch,
though. Ain't that nice?
 
 
Rendell
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:39:04 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <C0E1Ax.DDM@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>We have some (Eternity) - a gift - that we use for bathroom
>spray.  One spritz and two people's reactions
>to cuban black beans is nicely neutralized.

Or mine to milk, as I recall; one of the things of which I am most
intolerant is lactose, eh, Greg?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best men's colognes
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 11:40:02 GMT

In article <72990@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com
(George Dalton Madison) writes:

>and you can make yourself
>something totally unique.

Not more uniquer yet?

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss