From: wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Men's/Women's Roles in Marriage
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:34:54 GMT
Organization: UH Dept of Math

"Bjorn" == Bjorn B. Larsen <bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no> writes:

Bjorn> In this discussion of submittance and headship, we should
Bjorn> remember one small item: The Bible tells a wife to submit to
Bjorn> *her* husband, not to anybody's husband. In the same way the
Bjorn> husband is sopposed to lead *his* family, not anybody's family.

Not quite.  What you say is true regarding families, but the
Bible does make other statements concerning women's role
in the church.  1 Timothy 2:11-15 says:

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority 
over a man; she must be silent.  For Adam was formed
first, then Eve.  And Adam was not the one deceived;
it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they 
continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."

There are some exegetical difficulties with this passage,
particularly with  v. 15.  Some have translated this as
"women will be saved through childbirth", which smacks of
works-righteousness.  However the general intent is clear.
I would say that the basic principle is put forth in v. 11,
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission."
Paul gives a reason: the order of the creation and the 
facts about the fall.

Another relevant passage is 1 Cor. 14:33b-36:

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain
silent in the churches.  They are not allowed to speak, but must be
in submission, as the Law says.  If they want to inquire about
something, they should ask their own husbands {Literally: men} at 
home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Did the word of God originate with you?  Or are you the only people
it has reached?"

There are exegetical problems with this passage as well.  Paul
appears to forbid all speaking by women in the church.  Yet
in ch. 11 he speaks of women praying, and not necessarily in
silence.  This is a manifest absurdity.   It may be resolved
by looking at the context, which has to do with public
speaking in the church, of such a nature that would require others
to be quiet and listen, for example, preaching.

Another difficulty in this passage is that there is no commandment
that requires women to be silent and remain in submission.  To
be brief, some of us believe Paul is speaking of the Law as certain
OT books, as in "the Law and the Prophets".  Thus the Law could
refer to the whole Torah, including the story of the creation and
fall.  This would be consistent with the reasons set forth in
1 Tim. 2:11-15.  

I believe the basic principle in both of these passages is that
of submission.  God does indeed command submission of all New
Testament believers, but submission seems to particularly 
suit a woman's created nature.  The rest of these passages,
forbidding women to teach or have authority over men, or to
speak publicly in the church, are applications of this principle.

1 Cor 11, BTW, seems to be an instance where Paul applies the
same principle to uphold a local custom, in which respectable
women always wore head-coverings.

David H. Wagner
a confessional Lutheran.

My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by
The University of Houston.