From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Rich men and Heaven
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:17:26 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-270992132817@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
|In article <68990@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
|Pitts) wrote:
|... 
|> He is coming back, but this has not happened, yet.
|Most things he promised to have happened during the lifetimes of the 
|disciples haven't happened. I think we agree on that.

I addressed this in another reply to this thread.  Effectively, I said
that there is much scriptural support in the gospels and Revelation,
along with the writings of Paul, to support a long period of time
between Jesus' departure to prepare a place for us and His return.
Many events have to take place.

|> You make the distinction between who the men followed.
|> Paul said he preached Jesus as Lord and he and his gang as servants.
|> 
|>   2 Cor 4:5   For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and
|>      ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
|>
|>   Rom 1:1   Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set
|>      apart for the gospel of God--
|>   Rom 1:2   the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the
|>      Holy Scriptures
|>   Rom 1:3   regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of
|>      David,
|>   Rom 1:4   and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to
|>      be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our
|
|Could we please speak about Jesus and what he said, and not Paul, thanks?

I did, if you didn't get that post, let me know.

|If you want to continue using Paul is just highlights my opinion that
|Paul created Christianity, and not Jesus.

    I would, in a sense, say that a new religion was born, for the old
religion, Judaism, rejected their Messiah.  The fact that Jesus was the
Messiah is the central theme of the NT and of Christianity - the Jews 
reject this.   From the book of Hebrews, we see that the old pasted
away and the new was instituted.  The priesthood changed.  Our high
priest is Jesus Christ - not the Levitical priesthood.  He did once and
for all what they could not do.  He finsished the work and sat down at the
right hand of God.  The former priest continually worked never taking away
sin, but Jesus did.

Now, for your continued accusation that Paul was not in line with Jesus.
Look at Acts 9 and see what happened.  Paul was confronted by Jesus on
the road to Damascus to arrest Christians.  Paul was blinded.  However,
independent of this in Damascus the man Ananius was told about Paul's
adventure and then he was told to met Paul, for Paul would be a great
servant for the Kingdom.  Ananius questioned the idea, but he did go
and prayed with Paul and Paul was able to see again.  Note, this is
independent confirmation of Paul's calling.  Paul was even told that
a man named Ananius would met him.  In this same passage Ananius is
told by the Lord in the vision that Paul would be very valuable.

Other instances, like I mentioned above, have Paul clearly saying he
is preaching Jesus as Lord and he as a servant.  In Acts we have Paul
and Silas healing a man and the town thinks they are the gods come
to earth -

   Acts 14:11   When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the
      Lycaonian language, "The gods have come down to us in human form!"
   Acts 14:12   Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because
      he was the chief speaker.
   Acts 14:13   The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city,
      brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd
      wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
   Acts 14:14   But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they
      tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting:
   Acts 14:15   "Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like
      you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these
      worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea
      and everything in them.

Paul did not preach himself, but Jesus as Lord.

Also, Paul in Acts 24:14, affirms that he worships the God of his fathers,
believing all that is written in the law and prophets.

|Kent

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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