HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: Helmets (again): Skiing Safety
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:33:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.021800.15842@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan22.005440.10469@wam.umd.edu> bgohari@wam.umd.edu
|> (Babak Gohari) writes:
|> Helmets: that frequently raised topic:
|> >I think that the main reason people don't where helmets is because it looks
|> >stupid, or un-macho, or whatever you call it.  Probably where bicycle helmets
|> >used to be a few years ago.
|> 
|> Oh yeah, I think we are all aware, and I think we all ultimately figure that
|> helmets will be required for skiing as well as visors, knee pads,
|> shin protectors, shoulder pads, Kevlar(tm) vests,
|> "phased-plasma rifles in da 40 vatt range (said in best Arnie voice),"
|> and have a litigation lawyer in tow.  I think it's more historical
|> and economics myself.  You can convince numerous beginners that a speed
|> skier's helmet is the coolest thing to wear for the cost.
|> Car drivers, pilots, and others did wear helmets at the start of
|> those activities, and only wear them to varying degrees these days.
|> 
|> Time for a couple more paragraphs in the FAQ on helmets.....

A better solution would be have skiers take lessons from qualified instructors
so they learn to ski in control and not to ski beyond their ability.  Some
simple common sense and consideration thrown in for good measure and that 
should cut down on the number of collisions on the hill!

Cheers...Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: Summit County Conditions?
Followup-To: rec.skiing
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:46:26 GMT

In article <C166ow.Jo4@boulder.parcplace.com>, gerber@boulder.parcplace.com
(Andrew Gerber) wrote:
> Loveland, Loveland, Loveland
[stuff deleted]
> Loveland: 40% skiiers, 30% pinheads, 20% boarders
[stuff deleted]

And what are the other 10%?  Icicles?  :-)

----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: Airlines losing skis (was Re: Telluride
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:50:33 GMT

wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery) writes:

>psburns@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (MAUREEN BURNS) writes:
>>1.	Lost skis:.............Continental, apparently 
>>very accustomed to this sort of thing happening, was not very helpful in 
>>helping her locate her $1000+ worth of skis, poles and clothing.  They 
>>almost couldn't care less.  The skis finally showed up 24 hours later.  

>I have twice had my skis diverted in Denver--once going to Telluride and once
>to Taos. In both cases, the airline was United, and in both cases the travel
>was on frequent flyer tickets. Although I was not happy about the original
>mix up, in both cases United handled the problem in a manner that I consider
>above reproach. In each case, they located the skis (only the ski bag in
>each case), had them delivered to our condo (which meant flying them to a
>nearby ariport and hiring a local taxi to deliver them), and reimbursed us
>for the rental of comparable skis (Rossi 4SKs last time). Not bad on a
>free ticket.

The fact you were flying on a frequent flier ticket actually means they 
should go the extra mile, to ensure you continue to patronize them in
the future for many more thousands of miles.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: kennedy@annapurna.ee.umn.edu (Joel Kennedy)
Subject: Info about XC skiing in Colorado request.
Summary: Need info about XC skiing in Colorado.
Keywords: XC skiing
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, EE dept.
Distribution: us
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:27:55 GMT


Greetings, I am a midwestern US resident about to spend a
week in the Breckenridge area.  While there, I would like
to spend a day cross-country skiing, if possible.  Questions:
1)  Is it possible?
2)  Are there many trails?
3)  What level difficulty to expect?
4)  Skating(preferred) or diagonal?
5)  How much cost?
6)  Any other useful information?

Thanks a lot for all answers.
Joel Kennedy
kennedy@ee.umn.edu 
or  joelk@lilly.com

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: klaus@ced.utah.edu (Klaus Biggers,MEB 3140b,581-6499)
Subject: Re: Storm Restriction, Deer Valley, Utah
Reply-To: klaus@ced.utah.edu
Organization: Center for Engineering Design
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:11:46 GMT

In article 3380@edsr.eds.com, hkelly@tantalum.eds.com (Kelly Shuldberg) writes:
>
>Since you can both bet *and* play bingo in NM, wanna bet it never passes?
>The eve before the legislature votes on it, with victory for the bill
>clearly in sight, some official spokes man from Our Favorite Religion will
>make a statement to the effect that some of his cronies fear that passage
>of such a law would cause members to stop having kids (mutiply and
>replenish the earth) and maybe not pay their tithing (10% off the top from
>you income).  Come voting time, all those supporters will have suddenly
>disappeared, and the bill will be defeated by a landslide.  No joke!  This
>is precisely what happened with the flat tax bill a few years back.
>

And the sales tax on food, and paramutaual betting, and commiting
financial support to the abortion bill, and revision of the liquor laws,
and censorship of cable TV, and equalization of county school monies,
and.......

Separation of church and state in Utah is about two blocks.


---

-klaus                                              klaus@ced.utah.edu



Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: Andrew McCallum <andrewm@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: New SKI instuctor needs other instructors to converse with
X-To: ALL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:24:00 GMT

    Hi.  I this is my first season teaching with Toronto's Snowhawk Ski
School, and I was wondering if there were some instructors out there that I
could converse with via. e-mail about various aspects of teaching skiing to
beginner and intermediate skiiers.  My age group is 10-14.  Any help would
be apreciated.

                                                  Andrew

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com (bob geer)
Subject: Re: UTAH Beer ???
Reply-To: bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:00:37 GMT

ez012344@chip.ucdavis.edu writes:
>I just saw an ad on TV for one of the Utah resorts. One shot was of a couple
>in a hotel room holding up, was it? could it be? Yes, brand snifters with
>brandy in them.

What conclusive evidence was offered in the ad that it really *was*
brandy in those snifters?  Put a little molassas in apple juice & it
should look about right.  Or very flat brown Pepsi with a little water
in it to give it the right color, maybe.  Apparently you haven't seen
enough ads for "New, Improved..." products yet to have the proper
skeptical attitude.  :-)

>Of course the ad wasn't enough to tempt me to drive right past Tahoe ...

Whew!

:-)
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mhoyt@crchh47.BNR.CA (Michael Hoyt)
Subject: re: Red Mountain B.C.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:51:52 GMT
Reply-To: mhoyt@crchh47.BNR.CA (Michael Hoyt)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

I spent a weekend there back in '83.  I have 3 good suggestions:

1) The steepest runs I recall were either on Red Mtn which was ICY
   as hell (heavy traffic), or under the top of the main double 
   chair that runs up the face of Granite Mtn.  Granite's are the
   steepest.  The only shortcoming to this was that when you get to 
   the bottom of the steeps, you have to take a groomed blue run (for the
   most part) all the wall back down to the base.

2) There is a cat track that runs from the top of granite all the way around
   and back down to the base.  Its something like 3 or 4 miles long.  The cat
   track itself is just a cat track but I seem to recall some of the best
   jumps I have ever seen, on the uphill side of the run all the way down.

3) The back side of Granite is where we spent most of the time.  Tree
skiing and
   the best prospect for powder!  There is blue run that runs along the 
   valley to the triple chair that serves the back side.  If you look
carefully,
   you may find the secret path (just tracks into the woods on the right side 
   of run) which, if you are diligent and patient enough, will dump you out 
   at the top of a great powder (conditions permitting) field up the
hill behind
   the bottom of the triple.  You can see it behind you as you get on the chair
   and you wonder, "How the hell do I get up there?"  It may be roped off now
   or even lift served.  It HAS been 10 years.

Enjoy!!

Mike.
From: edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Snowmobiling in Maine & New Brunswick
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:55:43 GMT
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa



I'm scheduled to go up to Caribou and Grand Falls (NB) in one month;
anyone know the snow conditions up there?

Ed Dougherty
Paramax
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones)
Subject: Re: Skiing: goggles, glasses and FOG!
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:49:29 GMT

>People have mentioned various problems with fan goggles.  Here is my
---- stuff deleted---
>In short, not the most comfortable contraption, but it works far better 
>than anything else.

Well, I'm sorry if I missed the first part of the thread but the thing I found
works best, contact lenses. I wear contacts for hockey, scuba diving, downhill
and water-skiing. I have an astigmatism so the lenses are shaped so they
orient properly (very subtle thickness changes do this) to correct the problem.
I find it the most convenient solution. No fog, good vision. Haven't lost
one and have been using them for years, including some real peel back your
eyelid type high speed in the slalom course waterski falls. Thats how I
solved the glasses/goggles fog problem!

tj
.

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: zod@ncube.com (Operator)
Subject: Sierra, Alpine Medows 
Reply-To: zod@ncube.com
Organization: nCUBE Corp., Foster City, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:27:38 GMT

I went to Alpine Medows this last Sunday. Boy did I have 
too much expectations. 
It had rained on Thursday, and the chalenging runs were
all covered with ice. In the afternoon it was all slush.
Disappointed :(.



---



Captain Zod...
zod@ncube.com                                                         
                                                                      ^~
      _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/                       @ *  *
     _/       _/  _/ _/  _/     _/ _/  _/ _/  _/                     _|/_ /
    _/_/_/   _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/   _/                    |-|-|/
   _/       _/  _/ _/_/  _/      _/  _/ _/   _/                    0 /| 0
  _/       _/  _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/  _/  _/ _/_/_/                       / |
                                                            \=======&==\===
                                                            \===========&===


Organization: Doctoral student, Materials Science and Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:14:31 -0500 
From: "Harold S. Lessure" <hl0t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New England Ski Report Wanted
Distribution: usa


telnet madlab.sprl.umich.edu 3000

and select the ski conditions option from the menu.
don't forget to put the port number 3000 
ask a local guru if you need help doing this
(isn't this in the FAQ?)

Harold
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mwallace@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Wallace)
Subject: Re: Winter Park latest greatest update please!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:29:08 GMT

calondis@meaddata.com (David Calondis) writes:

>I know these requests are all over the net but here's mine anyway.  We
>leave Saturday via Amtrak from Indianapolis and will be on the slopes
>first thing Monday morning!  I've read this week they have about a 4-5
>foot base!  Where exactly is any extreme skiing done/had at Winter Park?
>Double black diamonds?

Just ski the Jane, and of course Mary Jane's backside.

Mark
From: patch@sequent.com (Pat Chewning)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Helmets (again): Skiing Safety
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:47:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1993Jan27.214701.89
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

mikeg@olympus.East.Sun.COM writes:
>When you change lanes do you look before merging over.
>
>Same principle when skiing.  

Some principles are NOT the same when skiing as they are with driving.

Example :  Changing lanes
	Skiing:  No need to look uphill (back) before changing direction.
	It is up to the people behind you (uphill) to avoid you regardless
	of how much you change speed or direction.
	Driving:  you better look behind before changing direction.


>It's those idiots that just pull up and stop anywhere, or traverse without
>looking to see who is coming.  Hell, if you look at least
>you can see the person about to hit you and can ah.... aim your poles correctly

	STARTING a traverse from a stop without looking uphill is a
	no-no.  Traversing the hill to control your speed, or to change your
	skiing line does not require you to look uphill to avoid other
	skiiers.

The rules of skiing generally allow you to do whatever turns,
stops, traverses, etc possible without checking uphill,  you "own" the whole
hill above you and none of it below you.
The rules of skiing ONLY require you to check uphill when starting out, or
when merging with another trail.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: phoebe@ithaca.com (Phoebe Couch)
Subject: Orthotics
Organization: Ithaca Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:03:39 GMT


I was in so much pain that I considered quitting downhill
skiing until I found a good orthopaedic surguoen and he prescribed
orthotics for me, because I had problems with my left
knee and lower left leg from skiing.  (All the other surgueons
wanted to do was to give me MRI and other expensive tests and
goof around, this guy bent my legs a few times and figured out
all the problems! )
For the appointment, I sat on this lounger and a podiatrist made
a plaster cast of both my feet in the relaxed position. The cast
went to some lab called KLM, where they made a mould and a set
of orthotics.
The orthotics are only half length and are mainly arch support
with heel, or a footbed with the toes cut off. They are made
out of a hard plastic and padded on top with PVC. I was told
to walk in them a couple hours a days for a week and I may
get cramps from them. Well, they are GREAT and no cramps.
I skiied in them within 2 days and for the first time, I can
crank my boots and not get cramps. My feet rested on them
the whole day and never shifted (it used to). At the end of
the day, when my feet came out of the boots, my feet were
soft and supple, no knots in the muscles and not even tired.
I had custom (heated) footbeds before, but my feet would still
be tired at the end of the day. These orthotics were made for
athletic shoes and worked great in hiking boots.
The second best part of it (the best part being happy ski feet)
is that my insurance picked up the tab, which is $375.
(In case you wonder, I have Kaiser, I used to think they are
worthless, but they have at least two good doctors (including
the one that sent me to the right orthopedist))

P.




Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: pasand@Mari.Unit.NO (Per Annar Sandaune)
Subject: Re: Skiing in Southern Sweden/Norway
Reply-To: pasand@Mari.Unit.NO (Per Annar Sandaune)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 18:58:51 GMT

In article <D92ADALI.93Jan23011501@odal8.IDA.LiU.SE>, d92adali@IDA.LiU.SE (Adam (Beowulf) Lidvik) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan21.141533.2190@irfu.se> mw@irfu.se (Mattias Waldenvik) writes:
|> 
|> >	   Considering the geography I'd go for the alps.
|> 
|> 
|> 	   Considering the skiing I'd go for the alps.
|> 
|> 			Adam.
|> --
|> ---
|> Enjoy the day.


That really depends of what kind of skiing you want to do



Per Annar Sandaune
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: No one skiing at Tahoe?
From: carlson@dwp.la.ca.us (Carlson Peters)
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:55:06 GMT
Organization: L.A. Dept. of Water & Power

In article <21743@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez012344@chip.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Anyone notice a drop off in skiiers on the slopes? Maybe now's a good time to 
>get up there.
>
>Dan

Everywhere I have been this winter seems much less crowded than last year.
Mammoth and the local resorts are way down from last year, even though
the snowfall has been much better.  


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carlson Peters			L.A. Dept. of Water & Power
carlson@manta.dwp.la.ca.us	111 N. Hope St., Room 1129
213.481.7898			L.A. CA 90012
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Skiing: goggles, glasses and FOG!
Keywords: Help me!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:34:29 GMT

I think this is another FAQ.

I came really close last month to breaking down and buying one of those
Turbo goggles with the battery powered fan.  It was a situation where I
really needed to see and I hate glasses and goggles.  It's the glasses
which fog, not the goggles.  I still might get them.  The only problem
is using batteries in some place really cold or remote like the Ross
Ice Sheet or Greenland.

Time for new bionic eyes....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: New Mexico snow/ski report
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:33:44 GMT

dlawren@salsa.abq.bdm.com (David P. Lawrence) writes:


>New Mexico ski/snow report for 1/20/93:

>            Base('')       New(24hrs)      New
>Taos          90              4             8 storm
>Purgatory     85              6            26 week

Something's funny here - I was in Purgatory last week, and they had a ski
team up from Taos because (they told me) there was so little snow in Taos!

Huh?

jim p.
-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov     
Madison,AL (205)461-4922  
i need to ask myself.....
***********         Would I rather be right, or happy?         ***********
From: tom@varian.com (tom cao)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: No one skiing at Tahoe?
Summary: So local businesses complain
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:47:33 GMT
Organization: Varian Chromotography Systems

>Tahoe businesses are complaining that media reports have scared off tourists
>from visiting the area at a time of the best snowfall in years.
>The businesses have also complained that the highway patrol and Caltrans 
have>needlessly shut down roads leading to the resort area.
	they should blame mother nature in terms of the timing of her
	precipitations. After many postponments, i went on Sun 1.17, it was
	pouring in the Bay area thru Sacto and the Caltrans phone (800 
	427ROAD) said chains required. I was preparing myself to mentally 
	suffer thru the "chains-on syndrome" but surprise! when i	got 
	past Placerville, no chains required.	I wouldn't blame Caltrans. 
	They did a great job given the conditions and that many drivers  
	don't have the foggiest idea about traction, kinetic energy etc...
	As for the media, always take the news with a grain of _wheat_, salt 
	is bad for you.
 
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: No one skiing at Tahoe?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:45:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.190958.27985@odin.corp.sgi.com>
jym@cruz.denver.sgi.com () writes:
>What's a Californian's favorite wine?
>"There's too much powder"

Californians who don't know that powder doesn't fall in California.

I thought it was going to be a chardonnay or a zinfandel myself.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: reha@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Reha Elci)
Subject: Anyone know a NYC ski club?
Summary: ny area ski clubs
Keywords: ny ne ski club
Reply-To: reha@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Reha Elci)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:48:47 GMT

I'd like to look into joining an organization such as a ski club that arranges
ski weekends and other trips to close by locations. Does anyone know if there
are any such clubs in the NY area?

Thanks,

Reha Elci



Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eriks@lin.foa.se (Erik Svensson FOA2)
Subject: Re: Opinions on New Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots
Organization: FOA, Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:09:12 GMT

rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern) writes:

>> I'd like to hear any opinions from people who have spent time skiing
>> the new Saloman 9.0 Equipe boots.  These are the new four buckle 
>> front entry boots.  I've heard the 9.0 Equipe Racing is definitely not 
>> for back seat drivers, but would like to hear any opinion on the 
>> standard Equipe 9.0, especially in bumps.

I've tried the 9.0 Equipe boot for a day. I liked it so and so. I had troubles
finding the right size. My main complaint tho' is the insulation! There isn't 
any, almost. The temps were down to -18 deg centigrade and I nearly froze my 
feet off. For that reason alone, I'd never by a 9.0 Eq. I've never been so cold
in my entire skiing career! 

cheers
--
     Erik Svensson
    Research Officer            National Defense Research Establishment (FOA)
 Guided Weapons Division        Stockholm, Sweden      eriks@fenix.lin.foa.se

"The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present"
 -- Hobbes
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Info request
Keywords: Park City, Snowbird, short trip.
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:21:34 GMT

We are flying to Utah for a hyperextended weekend : arriving Thursday 
night, leaving Tuesday late afternoon. 
We've never been to Utah, so I`d greatly appreciate some advice.
Everyone raves about Alta/Snowbird, but it appears that staying there
means living in a mall with limited food, shopping (yes, shopping), etc. 
options, and we are somewhat fussy about this stuff.

My current plan ( developed from ski travel books) is to stay in Park City, 
ski the first day in Deer Valley (first day adjustment to altitude), 
both days of the weekend ski in Park City, and Monday and Tuesday drive 
to Snowbird, going straight to the airport on Tuesday afternoon).
 
1) Is it feasible in general ?
2) How is skiing in PC compared to Snowbird/Alta ? Is it worth to scratch
	the PC part and stay in a Snowbird mega-hotel ? 
3) Is Sunday a crowded skking day in Utah ?
4) When should we leave slopes to make a 4:40 flight (unfortunately,
	the latest direct flight to NYC ...)
5) How long is the drive between the Park City and Snowbird ?

I would appreciate this and/or any additional information.
We are both strong Eastern skiers, and while good skiing is a primary goal,
lodging, food quality and certain measure of **civilized** resort
liveliness are also factors.   

Thanks, Sergei

sergei@is.morgan.com



Newsgroups: rec.skiing,rec.skate