HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer for Anisa
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:07:32 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Oct7.041112.7720@cc.uow.edu.au> u9066624@cc.uow.edu.au (Tippu Hassan) writes:
>rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:

>>>You people see what your government has done to Palestinians.  I can
>>>understand expelling PROVEN conspirators from Kuwait, but you have
>>>done exactly the same as Israel has done; that is, tried its best
>>>to expel EVERY LAST Palestinian left. 
>
>>Oh, come on, Sandra; you know better than this! If Israel were trying
>>to expel every last Palestinian they'd have succeeded already, or at least
>>made a substantial dent in the population. Fact is that to the extent 
>>Palestinians are expelled from Israel it's on an individual basis, case
>>by case, with evidence of that individual having participated in efforts
>>to overthrow the country required and a specific order for the particular
>>case issued by the military judge. This slows down the process to the
>>point at which expelling much of the population is about as feasible as
>>moving the Negev to Hawaii with a teaspoon; yet this is the system the
>>Israelis have instituted. If they were trying to get rid of all the Pal-
>>estinians they'd've done it totally differently and you know it as well
>>as I do.
>
>
>There are different ways to eliminate a people from the face of the earth.
>One of them is to kill their hopes and aspirations and that results in their
>eventual extinction. Expultion is not the only way.
>
>					source: THE FATES OF NATIONS
>							BY
>						PAUL CAVINOUX
>

That's as may be; if you'll look at what Sandra said above, however,
it was specifically discussing the alleged attempt to "expel every last
Palestinian". I don't think Israel is trying to eliminate the Palestinians
at all, although I don't think they're making any particular effort to
see that they don't; the attitude I've seen has been much more a matter
of being so wrapped up in our own fear that we can't *see* what effect
we may be having on somebody else. And that's partly our fault and partly
theirs; the fear is justified. But all of this is irrelevant to the par-
ticular charge levelled.

>>>Sandra.

>>"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

>Tippu [ Hoping you light a candle for the palistinians too ] Hassan....

Yes. That's why I use the quote. But they have to help by giving us reason
to let go of the fear.

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Arab and Jews
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:54:57 GMT

In article <22555@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <4264@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>>
>> In article <1992Oct4.173607.3799@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>>
>> >     First of all, you know that there are many privileges tied with the
>> >military service in which only Jews serve, (in addition to the minorty group
>> >the Druze).  Therefore, the Arabs do not have the chance of getting many
>> >priviliges and services which require, as one of its conditions, the
>> >completion of military service.
>>
>> My commander in the army was Abed El Heib -  an Arab !
>> Many of my friends in that same units wher Arabs from the
>> Arabian farm Arab El shiebly near Nazarath, Others came from Beit Jan,
>> Arabs can vo;lunteer to the Israeli Army !
>
>Do you know how many of those who volunteer are actually allowed to
>serve?  Based on news articles in the Israeli press I understand that
>this number is actually very small -- i.e., most Arabs who wish to
>voluntarily serve in the IDF are turned down.  I think even you would
>consider it quite unfair that such a person then be denied any
>privileges, no?
>--
>Yigal Arens
>USC/ISI
>arens@isi.edu

Well, maybe the Army had made a check and sees that the guy is connected 
with hostile and/or Terrorist organizations in a looseway and might be
a security problem. I think that the army is not particularly interested 
in the Arab population em masse for the same reasons. In the last years
the Israeli Arabs are undergoing quick processes of Palestinization.
It is quite troublesome to recruit large number of potential sympathizers
with the enemy.  

Aside from your allegation about the "rights upon invitation" policy
which I never heard of, The rights are given for the Actual service 
so if the army decides to reject someone be it "Profil 21" "Raf Kabala"
"Ptor Yeshivot" or any other sort of exemption - he is not entitled to
the these rights. If what you said is true then it should be stopped 
and the rights of "Yozei Zava" should be entitled only to those who 
actualy serve in the army.

BTW, most of the Ultra-Orthodox guys do a 4 month service in the age of
28/29 together with new Immigrants - so many of them get the rights after
after this "abbreviated service" and not just for being called.



-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Summary: Urban warfare
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:55:38 GMT

In article <26913@castle.ed.ac.uk> woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow) writes:

# makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# >	They are not political prisoners.  They are murderers, thugs, and
# >their supporters.  To those (very few) who are innocent, Israel can
# >hardly afford to give them country club conditions to live in given
# >the economic hardships the "palestinian?" war against the Jews has
# >caused Israel.

# ALWAYS people talk about PALESTINIAN and ARAB terrorists.  OK I don't believe 
# in terrorising innocent civilians for political aims.  If anyone should be
# targetted it should be governments - THEY are the ones who make the decisions.
# Moses Bloggs in the street can't make decisions.

	An individual makes the decision on whether or not to pull the
trigger.  However, I am all for going after the PLO "government" if
that would suit you (and even if it would not).

# ANYWAY what I am really writing to say is that no one ever mentions how the
# Jews went about securing their state.  Throwing grenades into any homes in
# their path without checking if there were innocent men women and CHILDREN
# inside.  'Israel' has a damned cheek to talk about TERRORISM!

	You obviously know nothing about urban warfare.  When going house
to house, you cannot ring the bell first and find out who is inside.
While this is unfortunate, these innocents have only their Arab
bretheren to blame.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Keywords: Syrian Jewry
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 12:27:03 PDT
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Moon Macrosystems

Azis Faris' belief that Syrian Jews have full civil rights is a joke by
any western standards.

Syrian Jews are *forbidden* from leaving Syria, even to emigrate to a
*friendly* country, such as the U.S.

Hafez Assad regularly *forces* the Syrian Jews to march in parades and
hold placards with pro-Syria propaganda.

WRT Palestine, the "Zionists" have as much (if not more) right to the
land as anyone else.  They've been there continuously for over 2,000
years.

-Philip Stromer-

"If there's one thing worse than a right-wing, chauvinist book burner,
it's a left-wing feminist one."

"A liberal is someone who wants to make sodomy legal and fireworks illegal."
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Who are the Canaanites
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:43:30 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct12.230618.10330@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au
writes:

>....
>According to the book, the Torah in the old testements refers to the
>Canaanites as the people who lived in Palsetine and the western regions
>of Syria including Lebanon. However, archeological evidence found at Ugarit
>which is an anceint Pheonician city near Latikiya in Syria indicates
>that the Canaanites are the Pheonicians. According to the book the word
>Canaan in hebrew directly translates into Phenoecia.
>
>Therefore, the Palestinians, Lebanese, and some Syrians are possible
>decendents of the Canaanites or the Pheonicians.
>
>A.Faris

As to " Palestinians" . pleas read  Britanica 1910 "Palestine -
population "  and you will realize that the non- Jewish population of
The land of Israel was a collection of all kinds of new commer that
has nothing in common.
there were Gypsie,s Afghans, North Africans, Bosnians, Egyptians ...

The "Palestinian nation" is a fiction used by polititians , ask the
so called Arabs in the land of Israel and you will find that each
identifies himself according to the nation he belongs to.
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Kozo Okamoto
Date: 8 Oct 92 07:44:50 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep30.142533.10459@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>># 
>># BTW, Lebanese sources indicate that IDF navigator Ron Arad is still 
>># alive. Maybe the Hizebolla could make a first step in a long way back
>># to the human race by saying if this is true or not. 
>> 
>> Who knows, stranger things have happened. Maybe even the Israelis might
>> consider being a bit nicer to Mordechai Vanunu, kept in a 9 by 6 cell
>> in solitary confinement for 6 years, 2 of which were in 24hr fluorescent
>> light. Naaah.
> 
> What the hell... Arad is a POW, Vanunu a traitor to his country. People
> guilty of similar crimes would probably be executed in other countries.
> Remember the Rosenbergs? And what about Pollard? Is he treated
> better than Vanunu?


  	You should not be surprised, Danny. Henderson is posting from
	a country that pays special tributes to her traitors. They
	either escape arrest, or escape from jail, or are being appointed
	as special advisors to the queen.


 
> And anyway, I am not even talking about the fact that Arad is not
> freed, and/or about the conditions he is held in. But why keep it
> secret, for many years, if he is alive or not? And why keep the
> bones of dead IDF soldiers and use them as barganing chips? This
> is simply disgusting.


	This should not surprise you either. When the Country from 
	which Henderson posts used to rule the mideast it executed 
	and deported numerous convicted and suspected dissidents as
	well as prevented holocaust survivors from reaching safety.
	Currently, this country is involved in certain affairs ranging
	from forgery of evidence in trials of suspected terrorists,
	allowing the starvation to death of others in its jails, and
	cold-bloodly murdering suspected terrorists without trial.

	So why should he care if Arad is dead or alive?

 
> -Danny Keren.


Noam
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: Homeland
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:14:48 GMT

In article <4025@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>I was reading through the Washington Report and saw a picture of
>two women, Ghada Karmi and Ellen Siegel, each holding a sign that
>read:
>
>	"I am a Palestinian Arab  I was born in Jerusalem
>	Palestine is my Homeland but I cannot return there"
>
>	"I am an American Jew  I was born in U.S.A.
>	Israel is not my Homeland but I can 'return' there"
>
>
>The caption above the pictures identified the women "in front of
>the Israeli embassy in London in 1973 and 1992".
>
>Anisa
> 
	They should have put another picture of King Hussein:

	"I'm a Hashemite Arab who lost Jerusalem and the West
Bank in 1967 and screwed over my fellow Arab Brothers."

Geoff
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz)
Subject: Re: EGYPT: LET MY PEOPLE DIE - we hate Jews !
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:34:44 GMT

In article <4279@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>Israel offer Egypt the help of those units.
>
>Mubarek the president of Egypt allowing those Jewish saving groups
>stepping on the holly Egyptian soil.
>
>Egyptians continue to die.
>
>And I am wondering: suppose the Israeli saving units had arrived,
>and suppose yjey will be about to save some Egyptians will those
>Egyptians agree to be saved by Jews?
>Or are they saying now:
>" Those who are going to die bless you you the  ceasar! "
>
>   Shalom       Gideon

	Would you explain: Did Mubarek of Egypt allowed the unit
to work in Cairo?

--Rafy
-- 
________________________________________________________________________
		       __        _    
  =_   __   ___    =  /  )      / )   ==========   diaz@sigi.sps.mot.com
 =  ) /_ )     )  =  /--<  _  -/-     == oakhill!sigi!diaz@cs.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: MEQ #9: Begin on Haifa, 1948.
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:01:40 GMT

In article <bdm.718637486@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>
>
>      MEQ #9.  Begin gives a rather different Haifa story.
>
>   The legend of Dir Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of
>   Tiberias and the conquest of Haifa.  The British commander at Haifa
>   announced the evacuation of his forces at the end of April.  The
>   Haganah knew the date and mobilized its forces for the decisive clash.
>   At the request of the Haganah North Regional Commander Irgun units,
>   commanded by Amiel, also went into action, and were ordered to capture
>   a fortified enemy building dominating Hehalutz Street, the main artery
>   of Hadar Harcarmel.  Our men launched a sudden, surprise attack--and the
>   building was captured.  Our men were loudly cheered by the inhabitants
>   of Hadar Harcarmel.  They then went on to Wadi Nisnas, captured the
>   whole Quarter and continued to advance towards the purely Arab Quarter.
>   Meanwhile the Haganah was carrying out successful attacks on other
>   fronts in Haifa.  All the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through
>   Haifa like a knife through butter.  The Arabs began fleeing in panic,
>   shouting: "Dir Yassin!"
>
>   Source: Menachem Begin, The Revolt (W.A. Allen, 1951) page 165.
>   Elsewhere (page 337) Begin speaks of Irgun attacks on Haifa as
>   early as December 11, 1947--only 12 days after the UN partition vote.
>   It is interesting to compare this Irgun version to the "official"
>   Israeli version which says the Arabs of Haifa left despite attempts
>   to get them to stay.  As usual, both versions contain some truth.
>


Thanks a lot! at least this matches what I heared from my folks.
-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |   We take customer satisfaction  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |   personally.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
From: abucher@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Anthony Bucher)
Subject:   Basque (spell ?) Party
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:04:38 GMT

I was wondering if anybody could explain to me (or the whole
group of news readers) about the Basque (sp) party in the Middle
East.  (I'm spelling it like the name of the people who live 
between Spain and France but I don`t mean them).  I am curious 
about their past and what their power is today.  If the past can 
be done in a short recap (like the Cliff notes) that would be fine.

        Thanks
                
                Tony

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Keywords: Syrian Jewry
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:34:49 GMT

In article: 52347 of talk.politics.mideast,(Philip Stromer) writes:

>Azis Faris' belief that Syrian Jews have full civil rights is a joke by
>any western standards.
>Syrian Jews are *forbidden* from leaving Syria, even to emigrate to a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Oh please, there are cruel human rights violations in Israel worse than
any where in this universe.  May be the Syrian Jews are forced to stay in their
HOMELAND (Syria), but Palestinians are FORCED out of their HOMELAND (by
expulsions).

>Hafez Assad regularly *forces* the Syrian Jews to march in parades and
>hold placards with pro-Syria propaganda.

     What Hafez Assad and his secret service men do is directed against the
entire population, and not against a single ethnic/religious group in
particular.  Assad is a dictator and tries to hold on to power in any way; that
is why you find thousands of innocent Syrians imprisoned "for security
reasons".  And keep in mind that almost all of them are NOT JEWS.  So, it is
not a matter of a single sector of the population that is being targeted.
     Besides, are you implying that the SYRIAN Jews would rather hold placards
with ANTI-SYRIA propaganda?

>WRT Palestine, the "Zionists" have as much (if not more) right to the
>land as anyone else.  They've been there continuously for over 2,000
>years.

     Well, the Arabs have been in Palestine for over 5,500 years.  Enough said!

>-Philip Stromer-

Wa Salam
--------------------
Khaled J Shammout
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:36:00 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <26642@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
> In article <1992Oct7.134224.4640@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:


	In a previous post, Message-ID: <26595@castle.ed.ac.uk>
	Date: 6 Oct 92 13:29:11 GMT,  Henderson wrote:
                                    
Article in todays "Guardian":

Serbs court Jewish veterrans as 'natural allies'

.
.
.
The Belgrade government has consistently sought the [Jewish Friendship]
society's support in the Croation conflict. Statements from the organization 
have lent moral justification to the Serbian cause, while television
appearances by Mrs. Mandic and composer Enrico Josef - famous for his
description of Serbs as "celestial people" - have reinforced the belief
that Jews are Serbs natural allies.
.
.
.

	In response to Danny's question why he posted it, Henderson replied:

> =>#Obviously, to point out that those posting condemnations of the Serbian
> =>#actions do not speak for the whole Jewish community, and to highlight
> =>#the natural affinity of the proponents of "ethnic cleansin".

	Danny:
> =>I see. So now *Jews* (in general) are 'proponents of "ethnic cleansin"'.
 
	Henderson:
> Only the most tortured mind could deduce that I claimed that Jews in general
> are proponents of ethnic cleansing.


	Only the most tortured mind could write what you wrote above.

	Only the most tortured mind could _not_ deduce that you claimed
	that Jews in General are proponents of ethnic cleansing.


    	Henderson:
> made only yesterday. So if you want to keep on flaming, why not send
> me e-mail, rather than making a big grandstand show and wasting everybody's
> time and energy. That way I can devote more time to reading postings by
> people like Adam who are at least prepared to argue their case in a 
> thoughtful and non-inflammatory fashion.


	I'm curious as to how long will Adam be prepared to argue with 
	you on a level different than arguing with ARF.

> -- 
> ===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          Vommen


Noam
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:11:52 GMT

In article <4023@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1b785eINN7j1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>>
>>I don't know the numbers, but it's getting up close to a thousand Arabs
>>killed in clashes with Israeli soldiers, and nearly that many murdered by
>>their fellow Arabs.  Over the last couple of years, far more Arabs have
>>been murdered by other Arabs than have died in clashes with Israelis.
> 
>I guess Mr. Stein wouldn't say how many Palestinians have been murdered
>by his fellow Israelis either through Undercover Squads or through the
>typical terrorist measures used by the Occupational Forces to squash
>the intefadeh.
> 
>It wouldn't be to his advantage to uncover these figures.  It's always
>better to blame fellow Arabs and to suggest that their deaths were
>caused by rock-throwing children and teenagers, in their resistance to
>the Occupation of their homes.
>
>Anisa
>
	Oh and of course a Palestinian never killed another Palestinian.
No NEVER!  It had to be Israelis undercover.  The Palestinians are
perfect. They are always the hapless victims.  They never killed any
so called "colaborators" never.  It was all done by Israelis.
	By the way.  If you're not happy with what Alan cited, then
why don't you give us some figures instead of shooting off your mouth.

Geoff
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: U16244@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:37:30 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <Bw55y3.7r6@ddsw1.mcs.com>, arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) says:
>While browsing through a seed catalog, I noticed that the nice folks
>who censor and control such things have changed the name of a very popular
>cultivated flower from Wandering Jew to Wandering Gyspy.
>
>Anybody have any idea why?

Because assholes like you tend to keep forgetting that Gypsy (not Gyspy you
dolt) and Pole cultures tend to also be nomadic peoples. (Poles less so,
except during the Russian occupation).

By the way you over righteous cock sucking prick, what the fuck does this
have to do with talk.politics.misc other than the fact that you wanted to
make yet another fucking comment on the mythical Zionist Occupation Government?

Doug Wojtowicz
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast