HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 1992 r.s.bb Mock Expansion Draft
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:46:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: undergra.BruJp4.n4D
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Jul22.223833.14896@news2.cis.umn.edu> kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch) writes:

>For example, I'll be representing the Jays
>along with one other owner. Although I don't necessarily want to, I'll
>probably wind up having to protect Manuel "don't call me Mann E' Lee just
>because the Jays probably will. However, I probably won't protect Rance
>Mulliniks or Jack Morris. The Jays will likely let Rance float as a free 
>agent even though he's a 10/5 man. In Morris' case, my rationale is "He's a 
>37 year old pitcher with a $5+ million contract

Add Dave Steib to this list.  He is also a 10/5 man but unless he has a great
second half (which I don't think that he will) he may go like Rance.  I think
that they would rather protect younger pitching prospects.  I wonder if teams
will try and get around 10/5 players who will not likely get taken in the
draft by trading them to another team for their 10/5 man and then trade them
back after the draft.  This way they would not have to be protected and would
not have to be dumped by the team.  Does anyone know if there is some kind
of rule which would prevent this or is this legal.

 .. if you want him for a
>young, building expansion team, go ahead." I'm hoping the Jays will do the
>same; I wouldn't be surprised if they did that unless they make a 3-for-1 or
>4-for-1 deal of prospects for an established star before the expansion draft.
>
>  I'll add more info tomorrow and as I get a chance. If there's anything you 
>guys can think of that I should add, by all means drop me a line. 
> 
>-- 
>Dave Kirsch                                                Jeff Kent for ROY 
>kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                        "Blue Jays all the way in '92"  
>"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting bitter taste" - Noel Steere
>Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 14
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:05:51 GMT

gt2807a@prism.gatech.EDU (Benjamin H. Cowan) writes:

>In article <36084@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>>In article <92205.211559IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) writes:
>>>With nobody on, the batter hits a high pop-up in front of the
>>>plate. The catcher gets into position to make the catch, but loses
>>>sight of the ball just before it comes down and bounces off his
>>>glove, which is over the plate. The ball squirts to the backstop.
>>>The catcher retrieves the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.
>>>The pitcher takes his position on the rubber, the catcher and
>>>batter go to their boxes, and the pitcher pitches. The batter
>>>grounds the ball back to the pitcher, and the pitcher throws the
>>>ball to first for the out. How is this play scored?
>>
>> [a very reasonable response deleted]
>>My ruling:  E2 + 1-3

>  I disagree.  Whenever the ball hits homeplate and goes off into foul 
>territory, this a foul.  In addition, if a ball were come to rest in a batters 
>box or on the plate, this too would be a foul.  So, I'd say that the ball was 
>technically in foul territory when it bounced off of the catcher.  

Nope.  The plate is in fair territory.  It should be obvious: why on
earth do you think it has that shape?  (ans:  so that the whole thing
is in fair territory.)

I apologize in advance for the crudity, but here's a picture:

          \             /
           \           /
            \         /
             \       /
              \ __  /
               \| |/
                \ /
       
To quote from above, "[the ball] comes down and bounces off his glove,
which is over the plate."  If his entire glove was over the plate, we
can infer that the ball was also over the plate, since it bounced off
the glove.  Hence, it meets the definition of fair ball:

"A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that ..., or that, while on or over fair
territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or ...."

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: WHAT SHOULD THE DODGERS DO???
Date: 25 Jul 1992 13:58:46 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Since Russell can't handle a pitching staff...at least as yet...
the second leading candidate to manage the Dodgers may be number
one.....none other than Phil "the vulture" Regan.

But I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Bobby Valentine's name
brought up again either.

Personally, I'd fire Claire and make Tommy the GM until he retires....
opening up the manager's spot to someone else.

As for Strawberry....I have it on good authority that the Dodgers...
read Fred Claire....rushed Strawberry back hoping that he would
prove to be a motivational factor that would lift the Dodgers
miraculously out of the cellar and back into the race.  When it
became PAINFULLY clear that the Dodgers were mired in last place,
they gave up on this plan and allowed Straw to go back on the DL.
The truth is, he shouldn't have gone to Albuquerque either...he
simply wasn't ready to come off the DL.  That's what my sources
tell me.
					Dodger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.221138.27950@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>In article <1515nnINNirq@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:

>>AMERICAN EAST
>>Toronto Blue Jays     58    40    .592    --      4-6    Lost 3  31-18  27-22
>>Baltimore Orioles     54    44    .551   4.0     z5-5    Lost 2  28-22  26-22
>>Milwaukee Brewers     53    44    .546   4.5     z8-2     Won 3  28-21  25-23
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
> Has anyone else noticed this team lately!!?? I'll bet Cito and Co. have.
> Are the Jays gonna pull another El Foldo down the stretch? Even though    
> Toronto has about twice the talent as any other team in the East, it could
> be an interesting September/October!
>
> Go Brewhas!
>
> Salty

Up here we are not worried about Baltimore.  We think that they will play what
they should play over the rest of the season.  About .500.  I remember Pat
Gillick say about 2 weeks ago that he was more worried about the Brewers.  At
that time they were about 8 back.  Now the media and the fans are starting to
say the same thing.  Also if the Jays do what many expected at the beggining
of the season (100 wins) no team in the east has a chance.  The Jays are much
better than a .592 team.  I wish they could get a manager who can motivate the
team and make good managerial decisions, not just keep his team happy.

--David Johnson
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:59:28 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul23.170234.8619@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri  
Nichols) writes:
> In article <BrunC5.7zw@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>  
djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
> >2)  Who is more better for the team?  This requires the combination of  
using
> >    statistics and analysing the intangibles.
> 
> So, how do we go about analyzing the intangibles, and how do we tell  
when
> those intangibles have helped the team above and beyond the  
contribution of
> the player's performance on the field as measured by his statistics?   
How
> do we even define a player's intangible contribution?  Even if we  
could, of
> what good is it to us?  Does it tell us anything about which team is  
likely
> to win, or which player is likely to help a particular team win, or  
which
> player is likely to perform well on the field (beyond what we can  
discern
> about this likelihood from his statistics)?
> 

One thing I never understand in these arguments is why somehow
baseball should be different than everything else. We all use 
intagibles to judge lots of things, so why shouldn't they count,
at least in part, in judging a player.  In our jobs we certainly
judge people that way.   If, for example, there is a software
engineer, say, who not only does his/her job, but is prone
to help others in time of need, be an information resource to
the department or company, go out of his/her way to help on extra,
people-oriented work (volunteer work on the department policy task
force, or whatever), and so forth.  I would expect this engineer
to be more highly valued (and more highly paid) than the engineer
who does his/her job but nothing more.  And one of the reasons we
do value the former engineer more is that he/she is not only
performing well but helping to raise the performance level of
others in the office.

Why should the same count in baseball?  Shouldn't we value the 
player who likes to give pointers to his teammates, who helps
establish a work ethic in the clubhouse, and so forth?

I agree that these things are harder to evaluate, and that we 
are more likely to be wrong in that part of our evaluation than
on the part of the evaluation that is just based on statistics,
but that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.

I also agree that this kind of evaluation probably doesn't enter
the picture in a discussion of who is the best firstbaseman, since
in that case we are probably just talking individual, on-the-field
performance. But it certainly is worth discussing when we are
talking about which player you'd rather have for your team, or which
was more valuable to his team.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
From: zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:53:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: parc.1992Jul23.215323.3920
Reply-To: zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Organization: Xerox PARC

In article <1992Jul23.200609.5991@advtech.uswest.com>, steven@jaynes.uswest.com ( Steve Novak) writes:
> I can see no good result if Maddux is traded, from the viewpoint of 
> being a Cub fan.  Can anyone else?

Maybe they'll trade him for Canseco or Bonds. :-)


Daniel
From: bobn@hawkwind.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bob Netherton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cardinals protected list (was Re: Pedro Guerrero)
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:59:19 GMT
Reply-To: Bob.Netherton@dallas.Central.Sun.COM
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkwind.central.sun.com

In article <UeP0Z6_00iUy41CpUi@andrew.cmu.edu>, Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> >Does anyone have any speculation as to whom the Cardinals are going to
|> protect?

I have the list at home.  I will post it in a couple of days.

|> 
|> Don't be surprised if they leave Lee Smith or Bob Tewksbury unprotected
|> or trade them before the end of this season so they can protect Ericks
|> and Brewer.

Smith (Lee of course) is protected, Worrell is not.  What does that say
about their respective chances of staying with the team ?



Bob
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:31:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19404
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND

No doubt, the Brew Crew has been VERY HOT lately and I expect
Mollitor & Co. to give Cito some sleepless nights. The
Brew Crew come to the dome for a 4 game series with the
Twins, beginning Thursday after the Twins get done with the
As tomorrow.

The Brew Crew has been tough on the Twins and generally, the
games of the Twins and the brewers have gone down to the
wire. Twins' saver Agiluera is very shaky against the Brewers
and last year, when he had 42 saves out of 52 attempts, in
which there were 8 blown saves, 3 were against the Brewers.
The Twins have lost several heart breakers to the Crew and
this season, they have lost 3 and won 2 out of the 5 games
that they have played with the Brewers so far. I wouldn't
be surprised if the Crew takes 3 out of 4 from the Twins
over this weekend.

S.H
Forever a Twins fan....not a fanatic
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Wed, Jul 29th, 1992
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:20:26 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

> = ( Steve Novak) writes:

>I'm not as enthusiastic as Rick on the Cubs' chances, but I consider
>Ryne Sandberg, Rich Wilkins and Mark Grace to all be _better_ hitters
>than Dawson.  Sammy Sosa's coming along, too.  We'll see if he can keep
>it up.

Forgot to add Steve Buechele.  The guy's been amazing with the glove
_and_ at the plate.  Again, we'll see if he can keep up the offense.

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Re: The Indians: heads up the butt again (was Mesa)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 22 Jul 1992 09:03 EST  

In article <1478@cogsci.ucsd.EDU>, king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) 
     writes...

>It is to vomit.  What in the hell were the Indians thinking here?  Does
>anybody know?  Or am I missing something really obvious?

This from the guy who pointed out the Indians were averaging "exactly 1.0
runs per game" after one doubleheader.  Nuff said.

RG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:54:19 GMT

In article <Bs3s6B.2LF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson) writes:
>
>Why do you boo Carter.  He played 1B the other day and I recall him saying
>when he was first traded to the Jays that he would rather play the outfield
>and stay away from first.  He never complained the other day and I don't
>think he would complain if they asked him to do it again, even for an extended
>period of time.

Now, how the hell do you know whether he complained or not?

Or do you perhaps mean that he didn't complain within earshot of  a
reporter who chose to write it down, or that no reporter misinterpreted
something he said one way or another, or what?  

Unless you actually followed him around before and after the game, you
haven't the foggiest idea how he feels about this.  Not a clue.  And
even if you DID follow him around, he might not tell you or let you
know.  So stop deluding yourself.

>>My point is that Winfield is being selfish by playing in the OF because
>>it hurts the team defence and his pitcher's confidence knowing that there
>>is a slow, immobile OF in RF. 

>He only plays OF when Cito asks him to.  I can't blame him for taking 
>something given to him.  The same way I see no problem in players getting
>$6 million a year if the owners are going to give it to them.  You would
>do the same thing.  So would I.  So would almost everybody.  So is everybody
>selfish.

Why does Cito do this?  Perhaps to keep him happy?  How do you know how
this decision wa made?  Again, I submit that you have absolutely no
knowledge of why he is playing where he is playing and that *even if he
and Gaston both gave a reason* you would not know, simply because people
say all kinds of things to the press, often for no reason other than
publicity.  Do you suppose ballplayers are less concerned with image
than, say, politicians?

>>You have not addressed my question about: Why is it ok for Winfield to 
>>not respect management, but it is not ok for Bell too? 

>I did.  The management didn't respect Winfield.  

The management didn't respect Bell, either.  We've been over this.  They
didn't even bother to *discuss* a change of position with their MVP;
they just issued an ultimatum, which is basically a threat.  Some
respect.

>I don't feel anyone should
>respect someone else if that someone else doesn't respect him.  

Well, keep talking!  What does this have to do with your distinction
between Winfield and Bell?  

(And, once again, who do you know what their feelings are, as opposed to
what they tell the press?)

>I think that Winfield has respected management this year.  

How the hell do you know this?  You know *nothing* of his feelings.  Get
used to it.

>He has never said anything bad
>about them and they have never said anything bad about him.

Not to the press, anyway.  But most business in baseball is not
transacted in front of the press.

Roger
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: League of Their Own
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:55:35 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California


I liked "A League of Their Own" and recommend it even though I do not know
much about movies and don't like it when people who are not knowledgable
about something state their opinions.  Still, I think Lori Petty should get
the Rookie of the Year Oscar.  Casey Candaele's mother was listed in
the opening credits (for those of you who were wondering).

The July 1989 issue of Smithsonian Magazine has an article about the
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League.   The June 1990 issue
of Smithsonian Magazine has an article on Rotisserie baseball.

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: twromero@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Michael Lin)
Subject: Re: The Expos...Surprise of the second half...
Originator: twromero@fangorn.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Organization: McGill Research Centre for  Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:28:49 GMT


In article <3833@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
|> In article <19387@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
|> >What does people have to say about the Expos....only
|> >2 behind the NL-east leading pirates...
|> 
|> I picked the Expos to win the East.  I haven't changed my mind.  I give them
|> about a 40% chance at this point...
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|>         David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
|>    dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
|>    Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
|>      from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."


  The Expos have improved their odds of winning at Las Vegas from
800-1 to 4-1 to win it all.

  Don't you wish you had put some money down???
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Commish is Gone (maybe) !!
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:24:08 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Jul17.172759.7787@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:

>>Given that Sherri can't even SPELL Giamatti, I don't think
>>it unreasonable to demand proof of these allegations.

I find it quite humorous when people are running out of steam 
in their arguments they resort to pointing out spelling errors.  
When you screw up...ADMIT IT.  This is rec.sport.baseball.
When I want perfect text, Ill go to rec.spelling.


Alvin White
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:11:38 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

In article <1515nnINNirq@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
>
>         MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL STANDINGS FOR MONDAY, JULY 27, 1992
>
>   [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; z-indicates won first game.]
>
>		     Won   Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10   Streak   Home   Road
>NATIONAL WEST
>Atlanta Braves        57    38    .600    --     z9-1    Lost 1  30-16  27-22
>Cincinnati Reds	      57    40    .588   1.0      6-4     Won 2  30-14  27-26
>San Diego Padres      53    46    .535   6.0      6-4     Won 2  27-23  26-23
>San Francisco Giants  46    51    .474  12.0     z3-7    Lost 1  28-21  18-30
>Houston Astros        44    54    .449  14.5      3-7    Lost 1  31-27  13-27
>Los Angeles Dodgers   41    57    .418  17.5     z2-8    Lost 5  26-24  15-33
>
>NATIONAL EAST
>Pittsburgh Pirates    53    45    .541    --     z4-6     Won 1  28-21  25-24
>Montreal Expos        51    47    .520   2.0     z7-3     Won 3  26-23  25-24
>New York Mets         48    50    .490   5.0      6-4    Lost 2  27-24  21-26
>St. Louis Cardinals   47    50    .485   5.5     z3-7    Lost 2  24-22  23-28
>Chicago Cubs          46    51    .474   6.5      6-4     Won 1  22-22  24-29
>Philadelphia Phillies 42    56    .429  11.0      6-4     Won 1  24-25  18-31
>
>
>		     Won   Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10   Streak   Home   Road
>AMERICAN WEST
>Minnesota Twins       60    38    .612    --     z6-4     Won 1  29-18  31-20
>Oakland Athletics     57    41    .582   3.0      5-5     Won 3  30-19  27-22
>Texas Rangers         53    48    .525   8.5      4-6     Won 2  26-27  27-21
>Chicago White Sox     47    50    .485  12.5      3-7    Lost 3  29-20  18-30
>California Angels     43    55    .439  17.0     z7-3     Won 3  25-23  18-32
>Kansas City Royals    43    55    .439  17.0     z5-5    Lost 2  25-23  18-32
>Seattle Mariners      39    61    .390  22.0     z3-7     Won 2  23-29  16-32
>
>AMERICAN EAST
>Toronto Blue Jays     58    40    .592    --      4-6    Lost 3  31-18  27-22
>Baltimore Orioles     54    44    .551   4.0     z5-5    Lost 2  28-22  26-22
>Milwaukee Brewers     53    44    .546   4.5     z8-2     Won 3  28-21  25-23
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
 Has anyone else noticed this team lately!!?? I'll bet Cito and Co. have.
 Are the Jays gonna pull another El Foldo down the stretch? Even though    
 Toronto has about twice the talent as any other team in the East, it could
 be an interesting September/October!

 Go Brewhas!

 Salty
   
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: George Bell in Toronto
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:16:59 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

I perhaps am guilty of not taking these things as seriously 
as most fans, but I thought that the relationship between
Bell and the fans was really a love/hate one.  Few really 
hated Bell, they just liked to rag him because he responded
so well.  And Bell didn't really hate the fans, he just liked
to fence with them.  I don't think that anyone was really
offended by the "You can kiss my purple a**" quote.  I think 
that it was intended to be taken in jest.  The press and the
fans loved it.  It gave the reporters something to write about.
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball