HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phillips@syrinx.umd.edu (Felan shena Thoron'edras)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
Subject: Re: BENDING THE GUIDELINES IS BAD NEWS
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:39:46 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <gqyjlz_@lynx.unm.edu> tkogoma@triton.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:
>In article <9F56iB3w164w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk writes:
>>I'd strongly advise against introducing another "grand reorganization" with
>>interdependent votes; nobody wants to see another rec.arts.sf-lovers-style
>>fiasco.

I have to admit that those are a bad idea...though I still see the point
of the original choice for r.a.sf-l.  Not, mind you, that that was really
what caused the fiasco....as we all know, of course.

>Awww...where's your [Usenet] Olympic Spirit? ;-)

Hey, how much work do I have to do, anyway?  Isn't once enough? :-)

Leanne Phillips
"Go not unto the Elves for counsel, for they will say both yea and nay."
"Now is _not_ a good time, Keiko!" - Worf, "Disaster"
"Variety is the spice of life, and I don't want to die." - Scott Borst
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: BENDING THE GUIDELINES IS BAD NEWS
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:47:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.154342.11951@sdc.com> kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki) writes:

>It shouldn't matter why a 'no' vote is received.  No is no, period.
>The rules shouldn't change simply because a newsgroup may not be created
>as a result of valid no votes.

But should the rules change if one group should not logically exist
without the other?  Suppose CFV's went out for talk.abortion.pro-life
and talk.abortion.pro-choice, and only talk.abortion.pro-life passed?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tim@spatial.uucp (Tim Eckert)
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Organization: Argonne National Lab, Ill
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:55:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.222405.5277@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> newberry@astro.as.arizona.edu (Mike Newberry) writes:
>
>                         REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
>
>		       on creating a newsgroup for
>
>                            IMAGE PROCESSING
>			    
>

  What's wrong with comp.graphics.visualization?  Isn't it pretty similar
to what's been defined for Image Processing?

Tim Eckert
From: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:19:06 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <1992Apr9.173618.27444@wdl.loral.com> dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David
C Blume) writes: 
>People, please don't offer hate votes when the CFV comes out.  Please
>*understand* the views of the two camps, realize the newsgroup name can
>change, and vote on whether or not there is a demand for such a group.

FAR better to get it right in the first place, name changes are always messy.
Voting down a name which may well be obscure to a lot of people, and which
broadens the rec.arts level excessively will give the opportunity for a revote
using a better name.  The group will be easier to find if searching for either
of manga or comics works.

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:35:21 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
 >The potential for lack of crossover in a hierarchy is a good thing. It
 >reduced crossposting and makes the whole hierarchy more efficient. If a
 >*.comics.manga group has NO crossposting to rec.arts.comics I think that
 >would make the whole group creation a success.

If none of the traffic was relevant to comics, it means that the name of
the group would be an incredible anomaly.

I thought people wanted a helpful namespace?


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: soc.personals.ads.{male,female}.{seeking-male,seeking-female}
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:36:22 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Apr8.022426.21852@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
>rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
>>Moreover, you say that you agree with me that the volume problems on
>>alt.personals stem mainly from the test postings and discussion, neither of
>>which will exist in the new group.  Where, then, do you believe the volume
>>problems on these new groups will come from?  If, on the other hand, you
>>believe that there will be no volume problems, then why do you wish to
>>create more than one group?

>The volume problem will come from these groups over time. Splitting it
>now is much easier then splitting it in the future. 

The volume problem for EVERY group will come "over time".  So why not split
EVERY group now?

More to the point, in the future, when and if volume DOES become a problem,
people may not want to split the group along THOSE lines.  They may come
up with other ones.  Or may want to change the charter for some reason.
We can't tell now.

I think we should practice "demand splitting"; don't split a group until there
is reason to do so.  And I do not think there is reason to do so at this
time.  In fact, I think there are good reasons NOT to do so (which have been
mentioned in the past, so I won't reiterate).

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

Is vi a more advanced version of ai?
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Subject: Re: RFD:  comp.compression.theory
Organization: MSEN, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:33:14 GMT

".theory" or ".research" groups are a good idea.  However, to get
the maximum use of the them they should be moderated.  The moderation
can be a team of people or whatever, so long as the peer review is
swift and sure, and the noise level is kept to a dull simmer.

--Ed
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:15:51 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <44619@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:

[bit about hondas vs autos deleted]

>     That does not say that Hondas are inferior to autos, but it does say
>that Hondas are a TYPE of a larger group called autos.  My personal (I do
>not know if another has the same argument or not) is that Mangas are
>on the SAME level as comics, not a TYPE of comics.  I may even be tempted
>to say that comics are a type of mangas, but no.

You seem to still be operating under the assumption that 'comics' means
'western comics.'

It doesn't. The charter for rec.arts.comics (and
rec.arts.comics.marketplace, and rec.arts.comics.strips) makes NO
limitation based on national origin. Discussion of comics books from Japan
(aka Manga) would be just as valid as discussion of American, Canadian and
British comics (to name a few).
The fact that discussion of 'manga' isn't currently in rec.arts.comics is
because it ended up in an alt group, not because rec.arts.comics pushed it
out as something inappropriate to the group.

If you want to propose an expansion of the hierarchy to something like:
rec.arts.comics.misc
rec.arts.comics.strips
rec.arts.comics.marketplace
rec.arts.comics.westerm (us, american, whatever)
rec.arts.comics.manga
etc

... I wouldn't mind at all.
I would not only support a proposal like this I would be willing to put a
lot of effort into getting it passed.
This would remove the vague 'rec.arts.comics' infavor of the more common
.misc and would place your precious 'manga' on the same level as the evil
western comics you dislike so much.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

  "Right now, I am trying to overthrow the Government of the United States."
		-Patrick "Hatrack" Buchanan
Xref: sparky news.groups:9740 rec.music.cd:3903 rec.music.misc:13790
From: dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: RFD: removal of rec.music.cd
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:32:42 GMT
Organization: Computer Services, Deakin University, Melbourne

In article <1992Apr7.015918.28938@gvl.unisys.com>,
wrp@pslsrv1.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Pringle) writes:

> **************** ENOUGH, ALREADY!!!! ********************************
> 
> Let's vote now!!!
> 
> All those in favor of deleting rec.music.cd, please signify by
> pressing "u"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> All those in favor of leaving rec.music.cd alone, please signify
> by pressing "k"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> The rest of you may continue to read this thread by pressing ^n.

Well, sound really silly, but I'll give it a go.

Hmmm, all that happened is that I can now see:

   NEWS> uk^n

at the bottom of the screen.  This obviously doesn't help resolve the
debate at all.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder)
Subject: Re: Um, okay, I did it.
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs, Moorestown, NJ
	<1992Apr12.044746.15954@CS.ORST.EDU> <73751@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<1992Apr12.063807.191132@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:38:13 GMT

>>>>> In article <1992Apr12.063807.191132@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
>>>>> awozniak@zeus.calpoly.edu (The WOZ) writes:

Woz> alt.mud.tiny has been around for quite some time, and the volume
Woz> of posts is practically zero.  This would seem to indicate a

No place I read news carries alt.mud.tiny; which is part of the problem with
suggesting an alt group.  alt gets nowhere near the distribution of the
mainstream groups like comp and rec.
--
Bob Snyder          rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com, or rsnyder@atl.dnet.ge.com
Computing Services  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if it bounces, try ^^^^^^^^
GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs  (609) 866-6672 FX: (609) 866-6397
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:44:21 GMT

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>    Actually, this might be a good time. If during the summer months
>manga discussions dominate r.a.c the it lends more evidence in favor of
>a mainstream manga group.

I apologize if you already understand my point.  I almost feel silly
re-emphsizing it, Hades.  Perhaps I am responding to a very old post...

There will *not* be much cross over between *.manga and rec.arts.comics
in the near future.  The audience that is interested in manga is most
responsive in rec.arts.anime, soc.culture.japan and, currently, in alt.manga.

It doesn't matter what news group you *define* to be appropriate.  People will
post with *practical* motives.  To determine the need for a *.manga group,
please refer to rec.arts.anime and alt.manga traffic.

Perhaps in the not-so-near future, when more manga is translated into a
comic format, you will see significant traffic in rec.arts.comics.  But
*not* yet.  This is a *practical* consequence.  Not a prejudice.

--David
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.lp
From: csteele@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher E Steele)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.{tiny,diku,announce}
Keywords: Lets get this thing settled so we can VOTE
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:48:13 GMT

In article <RSNYDER.92Apr16154815@nutrimat.fergie.dnet.ge.com> rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder) writes:
>
>rec.games.mud.announce (moderated)
>rec.games.mud.social -for discussion of social aspects of all muds
>rec.games.mud.lp -already exists
>rec.games.mud.tiny
>rec.games.mud.diku
>rec.games.mud.misc -for general discussion not appropriate to any one group
>rmgroup rec.games.mud
>
Ok, r.g.m.announce is great.  Lets get someone to do the votes.
r.g.m.lp is there.
r.g.m.tiny and r.g.m.diku seem to be fair if lp has their own group.
now, might we want to consider making r.g.m.social and r.g.m.misc one?
call it r.g.m.misc and make it be the replacement for r.g.m
If we leave r.g.m. without a subtopic, it will have a lot of cross posts,
just like it is still getting from the lpers.
I say:
r.g.m.announce (moderated)
r.g.m.diku
r.g.m.tiny
r.g.m.misc replacing r.g.m.
with r.g.m.lp already there.

--Chris
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:24:29 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.173618.27444@wdl.loral.com>, dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:
>People, please don't offer hate votes when the CFV comes out.  Please
>*understand* the views of the two camps, realize the newsgroup name can
>change, and vote on whether or not there is a demand for such a group.
>It would be a shame for a worthy newsgroup to be defeated over semantics. 

In other and simpler words, vote the way *we* want, even if you are offended
by our refusal to acknowledge the obvious.

Oh, sure.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: Sarek@world.std.com (Garrett S Fitzgerald)
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:08:28 GMT

I'd have to agree with the creation of mjoe--it would make it a lot easier
for people like me who only have <1 year programming experience to check
here. I don't see any reason to moderate it.
-------------
"Kilkelly Ireland 18 & 92/My dear brother John..."

Sarek of Vulcan
a.k.a. Garrett Fitzgerald

Sarek@world.std.com
Date:  7 Apr 92 06:21:57 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
 >So push for rec.arts.comics => rec.arts.comics.misc.  It'll probably
 >happen sooner or later anyway.
 >
 >*All* comics and comic-like media (strips, etc) should be in one
 >hierarchy: rec.arts.comics.*.
 >
 >The fact that the root group is "rec.arts.comics" rather than
 >"rec.arts.comics.misc" is a historical accident that can be easily
 >corrected.

Is it so easy?  I'm going to want to see an RFD for a rec.arts.comics
reorganisation before I begin to listen to those who want to shoehorn
the new manga newsgroup into rec.arts.comics.  A r.a.c reorg would
be a good thing, certainly -- they've been saying it there for ages;
but this in itself isn't a good argument for rec.arts.comics.manga.
All the other reasons still stand.

As an aside, the Japanese newsgroup is fj.rec.comics.  I guess the
mainstream equivalent would be rec.manga.   (When Japanese are forced
to talk about manga in romaji or english, they tend to say "comics".)


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Xref: sparky news.groups:9639 rec.music.cd:3865 rec.music.misc:13628
From: wrp@pslsrv1.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Pringle)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.cd,rec.music.misc
Subject: Re: RFD: removal of rec.music.cd
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:59:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: gvl.1992Apr7.015918.28938
Organization: Paramax Systems, Ivyland, PA


**************** ENOUGH, ALREADY!!!! ********************************

Let's vote now!!!

All those in favor of deleting rec.music.cd, please signify by
pressing "u"

Thank you.

All those in favor of leaving rec.music.cd alone, please signify
by pressing "k"

Thank you.

The rest of you may continue to read this thread by pressing ^n.

:^)  There, I feel much better now :^)
============================================================================
Bill Pringle                      Software Tools
Paramax Corporation               Voice: (215)443-7500 X4023
Internet: wrp@ivy.unisys.com      UUCP: ...!uunet!mimsy!widener!gvls1!wrp%ivy
From: Kamchatka Charlie (kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: No New Enya News Group!!
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:26:21 GMT
Organization: Psychosis Unlimited International

In article <1992Apr7.015308.5737@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00mddwyer@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>Here's another vote for the new Enya news group.  (Rec.music.Enya)
>Mike Dwyer
>
And here's a vote AGAINST rec.music.enya.  There's an alt group for that
already; if you can't get it at your site, FTP it.

Kamchatka Charlie
kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: creation of eunet.aviation
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:56:19 GMT
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden

In article <JKF.92Apr10071036@frisky.Franz.COM>, jkf@Franz (Sean Foderaro) writes:
>
> I've seen this reasoning used before: if we aren't getting enough talk about 
>topic Y in newsgroup X (where Y is a subset of X), then we'll create 
>newsgroup Y to 'encourage' such  discussion.  I don't think that this has 
>worked.   Newsgroup Y should be created only if there is a large volume
>of discussion on topic Y in newsgroup X and it is clear that such 
>discussion would continue if the group were split off.
>
> So I'm currently against splitting eunet.aviation out of rec.aviation 
>since there is too little eunet-only traffic on that group.

In this particular case, I do believe that splitting off
eunet.aviation will increase the participation of Europeans. To a
large extent, discussions on rec.aviation deals with US-only issues,
of little interest to Europeans. Having a separate eunet.aviation
group would increase the amount of relevant traffic.

Also, not all US readers are happy with discussions of non-US issues.
Particularly not attempts to generalise a discussion from being
US-only by taking up international (or European) issues. I have been
flamed several times for doing this. Other European readers have been
sending me e-mail saying that they do not like posting on rec.aviation
for fear of being flamed.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson				Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science		Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263					Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:39:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.2gqj_kd
Organization: Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end.

jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:

> I do not see what makes people so certain that manga is a subset of
> comics.  Sounds a little narrow-minded to me. 

On a network that is global in scale and which uses English as its primary
language, "manga" are a subclass of the larger group "comics".  Even the
fj.* hierarchy uses "rec.comics" as the newsgroup name. 

If you want to convince anybody that manga aren't comics, you're going to
have to give at least a couple of *reasons* why they aren't.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: friedman@asparagus.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark "Crimson" Friedman)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.{tiny,diku,announce}
Summary: rec.games.mud.* -> rec.mud.*
Keywords: rec.games.mud.* -> rec.mud.*
Organization: NAIVE - New And Improved Virtual Environment
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:56:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.001009.2259@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>This has already been discussed, I believe, but could rec.games.mud be
>renamed to rec.games.mud.misc, simply to make its purpose clearer?

Good idea: that way the newbies can have an idea where to post first.
This'll make it clear that about anything goes on that group, and they
won't get flamed (*too* bad) for stupid questions.

Plus a familiar term will be needed for them to latch onto.  "What the
hell's a 'diku'?": well there's one group that newbies probably won't
post to first! :-)

>What are the main objections to that?

None here!

						- Mark Friedman

REMEMBER:  rec.games.mud.* -> rec.mud.*
-- 
+----====>>>))) Mark Friedman is friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu (((<<<====----+
|   "There is nothing former   |   "If you put a hungry ferret in your     |
|      about King Crimson."    |      trousers, he'll run around..."       |
|    - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90   |               - Nigel Tufnel (Spinal Tap) |
Organization: The Leader Desslok School of Diplomacy
Date: Friday, 17 Apr 1992 02:05:49 EDT
From: Norman St. John Polevaulter <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.a.manga vs r.a.c.manga - A Plea for Sanity
Summary: Or should it be bozo.rec.arts.manga? And megabozo.news.groups.
 <1992Apr16.152827.731@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

Huh. All I do is politely ask folks to think of the people who will
use a newsgroup, instead of a trivial squabble over the name. I even
state my complete and utter willingness to accept a name I don't like
(rec.arts.comics.manga) because the discussions are so much more important
than the name. And what do I get? Flames. Violence. Even someone who
was considerate enough to insinuate that I only found out how to access the
Net yesterday (using my big brother's VIC-20, no doubt) and all but accuse me
of trying to push across a scandal and war on the order of *.aquaria.
That'll teach ME to post a calm, rational article in news.groups, eh?

Good lord! Someone who has a different opinion from a self-appointed net.god
can simply be branded a Clueless Newbie and dismissed without thought. No
wonder USENET is the way it is.

So you folks think the name is much more important than the contents?
Fine, then. Kill the group. I don't know why I bothered...

(I won't even mention that the straw poll was 2 to 1 in favor of r.a.manga.
Must've been a lot of uninformed newbies on that day, right?)

[Your blood pressure just went up.]       Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu
 DISCLAIMER: Penn State cares about my money, not my opinions.
  "All my father wanted to do was make a toaster you could really set the
    darkness on -- and you perverted his work into those horrible machines!"