Newsgroups: soc.roots
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:56:08 -0500
Reply-To:     RIGAUT@FRURBB51.BITNET
From:         RIGAUT@FRURBB51.BITNET
Subject:      MONTJOY, Kings of France, etc.

About MONTJOY (MONTJOIE), for those among you who are interested in the origin
of surnames (onomastics), family legends and History :

<norman%macalstr.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu>  writes to All,
about the surname MONTJOY:
>
> Presumably it got its start as Charlemagne's battle cry from a hill of that
> name where Charlemagne pitched his tent.

To which <fr@compu.com>  (Fred Rump from home)  answers:
>
> If it was Charles the Great, any battle cry would surely have been in ancient
> German, ie Frankish.

Yep (ooops -- Ja !).

But of course the Kings of France, later on, spoke French. And it is well
documented by historians that the battle cry "montjoie" started in the 12th.
century among the troops of the King of France (i.e. much later anyway than in
Charlemagne's time).

A favourite battle cry was "Montjoie Saint Denis". Saint-Denis, near Paris, is
a town where the Kings of France were buried. If you go to Paris, try to find
the time to go the Cathedral there, with all these incredibly ornate tombs with
statues of kings, etc. (about 25 minutes by metro from the centre of Paris;
about the same distance as from downtown Washington D.C. to Arlington  :-)  ).

If I remember well, there was a battle half way between Saint-Denis and Paris in
the Middle Ages and this battle cry might have started there. Especially
considering the fact that a "montjoie" means, in old French, a heap of stones
marking a place, like a sort of cheap monument (usually on top of a small
hill), for any particular reason, such as a commemoration (e.g. of a battle) or
a road crossing. And I think I've read somewhere that the small hill where this
battle was fought became the (in)famous Montfaucon, the main place for open air
gallows for Paris  #:-(  . Started in 13th. century, these gallows stood
somewhere between La Villette (just north of the present-day limit of Paris)
and the park of the Buttes-Chaumont (now inside Paris, in the north/north-
eastern 19th. district).

Anyway, your MONTJOY ancestor was, either a knight in the army of the King of
France, or someone living near a "montjoie", i.e. a commemorative heap of
stones !  (Note that, in old French, the spelling was MONTJOYE.)

Jean Paul Rigaut            University of Paris 7, France, EUROPE
rigaut@frurbb51
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RIVINAC (RIVINACK, RIVENACK) family history in the USA -- c'ued:
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- Where could I find photographs of the Music Bands of the 10th. MS Inf. (1861-
   1862) and 28th. MS Cav. (1862-1865) Confederate Regiments ?
- Where was Camp Phillips, FL (Confederate Army enlistment place) ?
- Where was Camp Holly, MS (Confederate 28th. Cav. Regt. HQ) ?
- Where could I find photographs of the Jackson Brass Band, MS (1868-75) and of
   music bands from Mercer and Montgomery Cos., Ohio (1880-1915) ?
- Looking for any original sheet music by P. RIVINAC (1829-1915) and for copies
   of any RIVINAC sheet music published by: Louis Tripp, Louisville, KY; Balmer
   and Weber, St. Louis, MO; J.F. Ellis, Washington DC; J.L. Peters, New York.
- Aaaaah, how glad I would be if someone would discover a RIVINAC(K) organ
   anywhere in the USA, or any clue as to where the RIVINAC(K) organ-building
   company was (supposedly in "BENTON", State unknown), ca. 1900-1929.
- How could I find a proof that Richard F. RIVINAC was among the contractors
   who built the famous bridge on the Mississippi river at Vicksburg (c. 1925) ?
- Where, in Tennessee, were the 3 first children of Peter RIVINAC born (in
   1856, 1858, 1861) ?  Maybe in Memphis -- how can I search for records there ?
- Where were Peter RIVINAC and Selina Jane EUBANK married ?  (Almost certainly
   in MS, TN, or VA; probably Memphis, or Brownsville, TN; ca. 1853-1856.)
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