HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Royal East
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Aug29.080835.3776@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Aug31.181831.18171@walter.bellcore.com>
Distribution: ne
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:55:53

In article <1992Aug31.181831.18171@walter.bellcore.com> dfw@thumper..bellcore.com (Doris Woods) writes:

   ... it sounds like you've been eating in places that specialize in
   southern Italian cooking. Northern Italian has alot more variety in
   their cooking. (at least IMHO :-) )

Southern Italy has been very poor in the past, and is still not as
affluent as northern Italy -- which explains why there are fewer meat
dishes, etc.  Still, there is a wide variety of good food in southern
Italy.  Unfortunately, it's hard to find in the US.

"Italian-American" restaurants indeed serve essentially southern
Italian food (in fact, mostly from the region of Naples), but they
don't do it justice.

"Northern Italian" is really a code word for "non-Italian-American".
It includes many ideas from all over Italy, as well as American
elements (e.g. I have seen cappuccino, a breakfast drink in Italy,
served after dinner).  By the way, of the dishes you mention,
vegetables sauteed in olive oil and garlic is typically southern
Italian.  Pasta with vodka is "modern Italian" cooking, not regional
cooking at all.  Chicken marsala is southern (Marsala is a Sicilian
wine).

Note also that `northern' and `southern' are really much too broad as
categories.  Italians typically divide their cuisine by region, e.g.
Ligurian, Piemontese, Lombard, Emilian, Venetian, etc.

There are many famous and wonderful Italian dishes from all these
regions which you never see in Italian restaurants in the US.

	-s
From: milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Bertucci's (tomatoes on smoked cardboard)
Keywords: pizza
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:41:15 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T

I guess everybody likes to "pizza bash" once in awhile...my theory is
that the type of pizza that one grows up with is the type of pizza
they prefer for life.  For me, it's Cassanos in the Dayton, OH region.

Okay, so maybe Bertucci's isn't the greatest pizza around.  Neither is
Uno's.  Sames goes for the Hut, Dominoes, Regina, the European, ad
infinitum.  Where are the good pizza places?  I'm not so sure either,
but I was out in the Chicago area in July, and had pizza maybe five times
over the course of two weeks.  Every one of those pizzas, even the one
from the local Mom & Pop operation, was *far* superior to anything I've
had around here.

Bertucci's opened up in the Andover area last August.  It's been crowded
just about every night since...I think that's a testament to the really
lousy "Greek-style" pizza places that are in this area, and not so much
a statement that Bertucci's is so great.

Then something wonderful happened.  A new place opened up on Rt. 125 in
North Andover.  A small place called "Sal's Just Pizza" (I have visions
of David Letterman and "Just Bulbs" in my head).  They've been open maybe
a month so far, and still have the "new restaurant syndrome".  Their
pizza is absolutely wonderful,  but unfortunately, they're still having
problems behind the counter.  They've even been taking their phone off
the hook, to avoid taking phone orders.  Still, they've been packed as
well.

They have some interesting pizzas, including a spinach/garlic combination.
The only pizza of theirs that I didn't really like was their vegetarian,
but that's because they put breaded, fried eggplant on it, and lots of
flavorless black olives.

So, check it out sometime, if you're ever in the area of N. Andover.
Near the intersection of Rt. 125 and Main St.  I believe there's also
one in Salem, NH as well, and I that one's on Main St. near Rt. 28
(Broadway).

Guy
-- 
Guy Klose
milo@mvuxi.att.com
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: What _is_ Greek Pizza?
Date: 3 Sep 92 04:24:58 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1992Sep2.140258.9557@HQ.Ileaf.COM> kjp@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Katherine Parks x4684) writes:

>So can anyone give the specific differences between Greek and
>Italian pizza?

Cheap greek pizza has little-to-no sauce, THICK bready dough, oil on 
top of the dough, and (HORRORS!) sometimes cheddar or a cheap blend of
cheese. Italian pizza (In My Humble Definition) has a thin flavorful
crust (unless it's Sicilian), mozzarella cheese with sometimes a bit
of parmesan or romano, and a tomato sauce where the flavor of tomatos
is distinctly present. 
  I can eat Greek Pizza only by considering it a separate food.
Holding it to either Chicago or New York pizza standards is
depressing.
    From a nutritional standpoint, the Greek version has a MUCH higher
fat-to-vegetables ratio. Not good.
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissy Blvd                     Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
From: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Why is NJ "The home of pizza"
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:54:45 GMT
Reply-To: mgelman@cyclades.ma30.bull.com (Michael A. Gelman)
Organization: Bull HN Info Sys, Billerica MA

Just out of curiosity,  why are NJ-ites saying that is the home of
"real pizza"? 

I don't really want to start another long "It's only pizza if...."
thread as appeared recently on one of the food newsgroups (this one?
I can't recall).  I'm hoping for some background, that's all.  I
always heard real pizza came from Chicago (to which I agree, being
from there) or maybe NYC.

--Mike
-- 
Michael Gelman -- M.Gelman@ma30.bull.com 
Bull HN Info Systems -- Advanced Engineering Program 
(Any similarity between my opinions and those of Bull, living or dead, are
entirely coincidental.) 
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: rk@athena.mit.edu (Richard Kovalcik)
Subject: Re: Fuzzi in Atrium Mall in Newton - opinions?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:39:01 GMT


I think the spelling is actually Sfuzzi.

It's overpriced neo-Italian Yuppie Food.  The food is generally good
to very good.  The service is variable but you seem to get better
service if you dress better (which really p.o.'s me about a
restaurant).  So, if you are looking for a place for a business dinner
on an expense account, it's probably great ...

More seriously though, there is some good news, if you have an AmEx card.
Call Privileges on Call at 800-835-5000 and wade thru the Boston Area
Italian Restaurant listings until you get to Sfuzzi.  They have an offer
for a two for one entree coupon which you can get from the recording.

-my two cents

P.S. To put this in prospective, my wife and I have decided that it
is worth it with the AmEx 2-for-1 coupon, but not without it.
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Italian
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:23:42 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com

Another nice Italian restaurant, although also not <$10 for entrees, is
Capuccino's, in Porter Square, Coolidge Corner, and Newton.  They have one
of the most extensive menus of any restaurant around; probably close to 100
different entrees.  If you think Italian = just pasta, this will change
your mind.  They have excellent chicken, veal, and seafood dishes.  Most
come on a bed of pasta or with pasta on the side; I hope that's not what
was meant when someone said that Italian food is 70% pasta.

Outside the North End, any good Italian restauran will price most of their
non-pasta entrees at $14 and up.  If you insist on cheap, that may be why
you've gotten the impression that all they have is spaghetti.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: pedro@wpi.WPI.EDU (Kerry Ivan Kurian)
Subject: Vegetarian Restaurants in Worcester.
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:03:37 GMT

Has anyone found any decent vegetarian restaurants in Worcester?
   Would you please tell me about them?
Thanks.


Newsgroups: ne.food
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Italian food
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: ne
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:03:28

In article <1992Aug28.213808.6527@athena.mit.edu> dethomas@athena.mit.edu (Drea E Thomas) writes:

    Is is just me or is 70% of Italian food a topological
   transformation of spaghetti.. Different shaped noodles perhaps,
   maybe 2 different sauces, but is that all there is?

Poor people's food is similar all around the world: it consists of a
starchy staple (90%) and something to flavor it (10%).  In Italy,
the staple is pasta.  In most of Asia, it is rice.  In Northern China,
it is wheat noodles.  In parts of Northern India, it is flat bread.
In most of Northern Europe, it was bread (of course, Europe is rich
these days). etc.

As for Italian food in particular, except for poor people, pasta is
considered to be a first course, eaten between the antipasto (the
`pre-meal') and the main course of meat, fish, etc.  Pasta can be
prepared in many different ways: I have a book at home called the
Codice della Pasta (the Pasta Code) which is a few hundred pages of
pasta recipes.  Pasta can be combined with all manner of foods.
Tomato sauce (with or without meat) is a small category.  Last night,
for instance, we had at home spaghetti with sauteed zucchini.  Simple,
quick, cheap, and delicious (well, cheap is relative: good olive oil
is essential to the dish, and is not that cheap).  The shape of the
pasta is chosen to work well with the rest of the preparation, not
just as a random `topological transformation' for variety.

There is a large variety of other Italian dishes.  Pick up a good
Italian cookbook someday.

	-s
From: milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: other "north side" recommendations
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:01:40 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T

After recommending a couple of places in North Andover and
Bradford, I thought I should recommend a few more, just to show
the urbanites that there is life outside of Rt. 128, even north.

A recap:  Sal's Just Pizza in N. Andover and for Suan La Chow Show,
the Hong Kong Kitchen, both on Rt. 125.

Now some new ones, although these places have been around awhile:
for a unique dining experience, I always suggest "Metastasis" in
Salem, NH (on Main St., very close to Rt.28/Broadway).  This place
is a relative of the dearly departed Metamorphasis in Lawrence.
I can't even begin to describe the food, other than wonderful.

If your not up to parking in the North End, there is a great
restaurant, on Rt.28/Broadway also in Salem, NH, called The
Colisseum, which is run by a family from the North End.  Or at
least they used to be.  I put this place on par with the better
places I've tried in the North End.

In Lawrence, on Common St., is a nice little place called Affairs
in the Attic.  I've never figured out their hours, but they seem
to have breakfast and lunch hours some days, and weekend hours for
dinner.  Their specialty seems to be their grill, such as grilled
fish, lamb chops, etc.  I've some killer pesto lasagna there, too.

For the truly adventurous, how 'bout the New England Center at UNH,
in Durham, NH?  It's a restaurant and conference facility run by
UNH students.  Surprisingly well run, I'd say.  Their menu is almost
as adventurous as the one at Metastasis.  Our AT&T facility had to put
an informal ban on having group outings at the New England Center, since
too many of us would drive up and claim the mileage.  I've heard there
are some interesting galleries to visit there as well.  Find Durham
on a NH map, follow signs for UNH, and then signs for the New England
Center.  It's almost an hour from Andover, so consider 1-1/2 hours from
Boston.

Joe Bob, if he read this newsgroup, would probably say check these
places out.

Guy
-- 
Guy Klose
milo@mvuxi.att.com
From: moel@mtl.mit.edu (A. Moel)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Pizza in Boston
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:29:05 GMT
Reply-To: moel@mtl.mit.edu
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology



Yes, I know that pizza is a highly personal, emotion filled,
topic. Some people like it thick, others thin, others with 
the taste of cardboard...

Regardless, I have been going to Bertucci's for about ten years now,
and their stuff has definitely gotten less crispier and a hell of
a lot soggier. I gave it up a few months ago. I prefer crispy, thin
pizza (like Regina's once made) with a thick chewy edge. My current
favorite is El Panino's in Mass Av, near Haavad Square (There is 
another one in the North End). Their plain pizza is just right (for me).
Their pastas are quite good too. 

Uno's: When I first got here, the stuff was good because it was a 
NOVELTY. To prove my point, go to the Uno's in Harvard Square  or in
Kenmore Square in late september. Packed to the gills with Harvard, MIT,
BU, etc. etc. freshes and first-year grads. Now, I got tired of it, and 
will only eat it when I'm really in the mood. As for that stuff that the 
average sub shop sells (i.e. Stefani's) I'll pass. I rather eat one of 
my old Timberlands, which have been delicately flavored by wearing them
constantly without socks. 


                                                 Alberto
From: milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Eggplant Parmesean Grinders in Boston/Worcester
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:30:30 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T

In article <k#knfhd.obnoid@netcom.com>, obnoid@netcom.com (Michael Kirschner) writes:
> (a request for eggplant grinders)...

I wasn't all that fond of eggplant grinders, until I tried one in
a rather unlikely place...check out Dino's which is at the end of
Station St. in Brookline Village.  Within 50 yards of the Brookline
Village green line stop, and across the street from Davios.  The
eggplant grinder is not on the menu, so just ask.

-- 
Guy Klose
milo@mvuxi.att.com
From: malis@star-trek.bbn.com (Andy Malis)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Hong Kong Kitchen (was Suan La Chow Show)
Date: 3 Sep 1992 15:59:19 GMT
Distribution: ne
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

In article <1992Aug31.124400.14939@cbnews.cb.att.com>,
milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose) writes:
> So, how many of you are craving Suan La Chow Show ...
> There's a small restaurant on Rt. 125 in Bradford (just past
> N. Andover) called the Hong Kong Kitchen that has it on 
> the menu.  I tried it, figuring that it can't possibly be
> as good as Mary's, and I was pleasantly surprised.

I went there and tried it - as Guy reported, it's not quite up to
Mary's standard, but it's very good.  Mary made it a bit hotter,
and with the broth a bit thinner.  But it's close, even down to
the beansprouts!

They have a wonderful menu for a place in the 'burbs - much more
like what you would expect to find in Cambridge or in Chinatown.
We had soft-shelled crab (a daily special), which were two
(sauteed?) crispy crabs cut into quarters so you could use
chopsticks.  Very good indeed.

We also had shredded pork with Szechuan pickles, which you
usually can't find in the burbs at all.  It was excellent - one
of my favorite dishes ever.  

"Rice stick" with shrimp, pork, and vegetables turned out to be
very fine rice noodles.  It was a bit above ordinary.

I thought the scallion pancake was a bit disappointing - I prefer
it crispier.  However, it was huge.

Other interesting sounding dishes, not yet tried:
A number of interesting sounding soups (seaweed with shrimp,
mustard green with pork, etc.)
steamed port ribs with black bean sauce
steamed whole fish (gray sole)
salt baked chicken
stir-fried watercress
several chow foon dishes
many other squid and seafood dishes

I will be back.  I recommend you try it if you're in the area.

Andy
+--------------------+-------------------------+
| Andrew G. Malis    | Internet:malis@bbn.com  |
| BBN Communications | UUCP: harvard!bbn!malis |
| Cambridge, MA  USA | +1 617 873 3419         |
+--------------------+-------------------------+
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com (Santa Wiryaman)
Subject: Re: Black Forest Cake
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:06:06 GMT

In article <Bu0w7K.KMB@wpi.WPI.EDU> shari@omar.WPI.EDU (Shari Deiana) writes:
>Hi, I am desperate for a recipe for Black Forest Cake.  My BF's birthday
>is next week (that's why I posted here along with rec.food.recipes, being
>moderated, that other group can be slow).  It's his favorite, help, and thanks!

If you can buy, why make it? :-)
Several years ago, I picked up a black forest cake at the Black Forest Cafe in
Cambridge.  It is not the best black forest cake I've ever had, but it is quite
good.  The cafe is located on Mass Ave in Cambridge, past Harvard Square going
westbound.  Other places like Rebecca's or Rudy's might sell them also.


-- 
Santa Wiryaman

INTERNET : wiryaman@riscee.pko.dec.com
UUCP     : ...!decwrl!riscee.pko.dec.com!wiryaman
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: The Bertucci's from hell
Keywords: pizza
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Distribution: ne
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:01:25 GMT

delanzo@sparc22.hri.com (Michael DeLanzo) writes:


>In article <1992Aug24.154646.68336@uvmark.uucp>, todd@uvmark.uucp (Todd
>Cooper) writes:
>> In article <BtDAxG.LE0@world.std.com> cmr@world.std.com (Charles M
>Richmond) writes:
>> >bungi cords. The _____ (can't use the word restaurant!) is obviously
>> >not supervised by the head office and is an order of magnitude below
>> >the normal Bertucci's standard.
>> 
>> I am not a Bertucci's owner or have any other contact than being a customer,
>> but I have eaten at this one many times and never had a problem.  My
>experience
>> was mainly at lunch during the week.  Perhaps that is the problem.  Have
>> you complained to management.  Most restaurants are fairly receptive to 
>> complaints (especially Bertucci's). You can probably get a free meal
>from them.

>I have to agree with Mr. Richmond. I am 2 for 2 in bad experiences at
>the Bertucci's on RT 20 in Marlboro. I not going to try 3 for 3. I had
>nothing but good experiences at all of the other Bertucci's I've been in
>(about 6 different Bertucci's).

>-md

>PS: All have been for dinner.


Mine was for lunch. I have no intention of giving that particular
Bertucci's a second chance... and yes my experiences in other Bertucci's
has been favorable.

Charlie
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: halazar@media.mit.edu (Michael Halle)
Subject: Re: Italian food: 70% pasta?
Organization: M.I.T. Media Laboratory
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:27:09 GMT


> Hmm, I think they won this year's WORST of BOSTON magazine award.  They
> conceded that the portions are huge, but then said something like, "is that
> all that matters?"

I sure hope that cuts that line down.  For me, the food's always been
tasty, and always a great value.  And great values are becoming harder
and harder to find lately.

							--Mike
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Good Pizza
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:30:55 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Aug31.235933.167@spdcc.com> jin@spdcc.com (Jerry Natowitz) writes:
>Growing up in New Jersey, I feel I am the Ultimate (tm) judge of pizza, and
>for my tastes Bluestone Bistro is first, Bertucci's (but only Framingham
>and Newton) is second, and O'Hara's third.  O'Hara's, you say?  Located
>in Newton Highlands on Walnut Street, one block from Center Street.
>Best to get take-out, they are usually *packed*.
>
I am also from the home of real pizza (NJ) and thus am disgusted by what
passes for pizza in most on NE.  I have only been skimming this
thread but since I see a post from an unquestionable expert, I would
like to try one of the places you recommend.  I didn't catch the
location of Blustone Bistro.  Could you post it so I may check it
out.

-- 
An amazing insight may have paid you a fleeting visit and then retreated.
Resist the temptation to chase it; it is faster than you are.  Value your
glimpse of it, and invite it to return some other time.      -John Bitmap
From: milo@cbnews.cb.att.com (guy.f.klose)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Good Pizza
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:47:31 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: AT&T

In article <184a76INN30f@early-bird.think.com>, barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
> Even worse than the HOPs is Dominos.  It's a perfect demonstration of the
> power of marketing.

Have you tried Dominos in, say, the last couple of years?  I think I have
a fairly discriminating palate, and I certainly enjoy Dominos more than
any of my local places (King's, Depot HOP, Captain Pizza), the Hut, or
Papa Gino's.  By far.

Okay, so it's overpriced, and a little too uniform for most poeple, but
I wouldn't necessarily call it bad.  Maybe, just a poor value.

Want to try Bertucci's idea done right?  If so, then venture up to
"Toula's Trattoria" on Washington Street in Haverhill.  It's brick oven
pizza, and it's heads above any chain place.  Gets a little crowded
during weekend primetime hours, so leave a little extra time for waiting.

So, you skeptics are probably now saying "he likes Dominos, therefore
he knows squat about good pizza, therefore his other reccommendation
is worthless."  :-)

-- 
Guy Klose
milo@mvuxi.att.com
From: croson@husc15.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Italian food: 70% pasta?
Date: 31 Aug 92 01:16:47 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Following the "Italian food--just pasta?" thread:

If you're looking for gourmand Italian food rather than gourmet, my favorite
place is La Famiglia at 112 Salem St. in the North End (in Boston).  As I
recall, all of their entrees are under $10, but they have a somewhat limited
selection.  I seem to remember that most of what they have is various chicken
dishes, but everything that I've had there is good.

The main reason to go, of course, is that the proportions are truly gargantuan. 
I have a pretty hearty appetite, and I can never finish their Chicken Marsala
or Chicken Picatta; there's always enough for lunch.  Each entree does come
with about a pound of pasta; not sure if that's 70% by weight or not. :>

The antipasto is pretty good, too; $5 and enough for two.  The place is cozy,
always crowded, and there's usually a line of locals outside.  Parking, on the
other hand, is a challenge...

They make enormous party platters too, but they don't deliver.  :<

Dave Croson
dcroson@hbs.harvard.edu
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: on beer...
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:44:58 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.

spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes:


><I personally do not thing that beer is intended to be a refreshing,
>>unless you drink something that "not gonna slow you down"..  Beer is
><an alcoholic beverage and as such is not a refreshing drink.

>	Actually it's been claimed that "American Beer" (Pilsners?)
>are suppose to be some what refreshing.  They supposedly developed in
>the hot, dusty, dry west, where you want something light and
>cool/cold, not something heavy like a Stout or Porter.

>->Spike


I never really thought of Pilsen , Czechoslovakia as being the "hot, dusty,
dry west"! *grin*

Charlie


-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: ne.food