From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: Bison is NOT King of the top Sure he's easy to use (except for me, I could never use him just for the
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:26:44 GMT

loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf) writes:

>In <By3Iu2.K8t@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>>
>>	You're right, it is Ryu.  He has the best combined chance against
>>	any given opponent.  He does however, have two "natural enemies" 
>>	namely Zangief and Sagat.  Zangief can be dealt with through A LOT
>>	of well timed fireballs and basically nasty defensive play.  Sagat 
>>	on the other hand really has Ryu's number.  A basic, unimaginative 
>>	pattern Sagat can beat even master Ryu's.  Really.  A standard 
>>	fireball, fireball uppercut pattern with minor interspertions of
>>	kicks and Tiger knees will beat Ryu.  The only effective technique 
>>	I have seen against Sagat, is a lot of close range attacks, and a 
>>	shameless exploitation of his relatively poor throw.  The above   
>>	comments are made under the assumption that you are fighting a 
>>	non-foolish Sagat (a patient and well timed Sagat who does not allow
>>	himself to be kicked out of uppercuts).  Unless you really have   
>>	seen some amazing Ryu technique to beat Sagat, please do not respond.
>>	I am addressing those who have truly mastered the game so don't    
>>	respond with the brilliant revelation that you can kick Sagat's arm
>>	during a high fireball.  Basically, do not insult my intelligence 
>>	or experience by restating anything even vaguely obvious.  Thank you.
>>	
>     Hmm for some strange reason I think you are talking about me.  Actually
>it is usually just that most Ken/Ryu's don't know much about the spacing
>when playing against Sagat.  There is a position where Ken/Ryu (or any character) can jump in fairly successsfully against Sagat.  I find most don't do this
>though.  The difficulty stems from the fact that most Sagat's I have seen
>do the tiger uppercut from the stance and hence get kicked out of it a LOT!
>     HOWEVER, if you tiger uppercut out of the crouch, it is extremely difficult
>not to exchange at the least with Sagat.  Like I said, there are several 
>positions where characters can jump in on Sagat...you just have to find them.
>     As for the cheap exploitation of Sagat's short throw range, that is merely
>due to the Sagat players lack of counter throwing ability.  I am convinced he
>can most always counter throw.  I however lack this timing.  Hence the reason
>you shamefully beat me with ryu.  Eu-Ming can counter throw therefor I am
>just deficient in countering a realization I have come to grips with and
>am workijg to correct. 
>     The spacing to jump in on Sagat is roughly 3/4 of the screen away with 
>Ken or Ryu, and closer than that with Guile.  There are of corse no Tiger
>Uppercutting counters to this move, and I am working on several stronger
>than what I previously know.  For me at least, I look at Sagat as an extremely
>defensive character, very poor up close with the exception of the tiger moves.
>He is a Dhalsim with a dragon punch if you will, but of course lacking some
>of the abilities that make Dhalsim a strong character, such as the slide,
>long limbs, etc...such being the case, you have to play against him
>similar to the way you do against Dhalsim, with well timed and spaced jumps,
>and a good mix of long range fireballs, then capitalize when you get to
>that postion of advantage else you will get shoved back into the keep away game.
>     Hope this helps you avoid being 'cheep'  Though I doubt it.  It seems you
>are currently the most shamefully cheap player here at UIUC.  Surpassing
>even Eu-MIng.  I mean usually Eu-Ming will not exploit a character who has
	I'm sorry but I think you are confusing me with someone else here at
	UIUC.  I'm only a freshman and until I got here, I played strictly
	no-throw.  I'm simply not a devastating ticker.  I never start a fight 
	with the intention of going out there and throwing somone till they're
	dead.  I think I play very fairly, overall.  I'll throw if I'm in 
	the position of getting thrown or combo'd if I don't or if someone's
	play strikes me as that style I hate more than anything, "hide and 
	react".  I don't think I know you by face but please introduce yourself 
	to whomever you think I am and we can talk about it.  
	P.S. - If you are playing "hide and react" then we have little to
	talk about, I'll throw you if I can 'cause you have left me no choice.

	Seth Killian

>a counter throw deficiency until they die.  He may do it only to stay on the
>machine, but will typically at least try to make it more interesting than
>ticks to death ... most of tthe time anyway....so don't go taking this as a cue
>to tick to death Eu-Ming...isn't it kind of boring?


>-- 
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