HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Coorespondences of the Three Circles of the Orgone Committee
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 07:45:53 GMT

 Correspondences of the Three Circles

 Red Circle:
 Motto/Koan: SEX IS PEACE.
 Plane: Physical, Body 
 Alchemical Element: Salt
 Golden Dawn Degrees: Neophyte, Zelator, Practicus, Philosophus.
 Taoist Principle: Yin
 Power: To Know, To Dare
 Weakness: To Fear
 Life Period: Birth
 Astrological Signs: Cardinal
 Animal: Sphinx, Hawk
 Uniform: Anything Red, nothing yellow or blue.
 Magickal Tools: Computers, Workout/Sports Gear, Hobby Equipment,
Artists Tools
 Chakras: Root, Spleen.
 
 Yellow Circle: 
 Motto/Koan: TRUE WILL NOT SLAVERY.
 Plane: Mental, Astral
 Alchemical Element: Sulpher
 Golden Dawn Degrees: Adeptus Minor, Adeptus Major, Adeptus
Exemptus.
 Taoist Principle: Yang
 Power: To Be Silent
 Weakness: Power
 Life Period: Growth & Decay
 Astrological Signs: Fixed
 Animal: Unicorn, Dolphin
 Uniform: Anything Yellow, nothing red or blue.
 Magickal Tools: Money, Any Deadly Weapon
 Chakras: Navel, Heart, Throat.
 
 Blue Circle:
 Motto/Koan: CONCIOUSNESS IS STRENGTH
 Plane(s): Spiritual
 Alchemical Element: Mercury
 Golden Dawn Degrees: Magister Templi, Magus, Ipsissimus.
 Taoist Principle: Tao
 Power: To Will
 Weakness: Old Age
 Life Period: Old Age, Death and After
 Astrological Signs: Mutable
 Animal: Phoenix, Monkey
 Uniform: Anything Blue, nothing red or yellow
 Magickal Tools: Body, Life Force
 Chakras: Brow, Crown.

Interested in communicating? Write to: Orgone Committee P.O. Box
614 Vanbrunt Station Brooklyn, NY 11215

SEX IS PEACE
TRUE WILL NOT SLAVERY
CONCIOUSNESS IS STRENGTH

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka)
Subject: Re: Sex? Magic??
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:31:48 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-02-93 23:28
 Ed> <1993Jan01.223118.20106@rose.com>, mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka)
 Ed> writes... >> Only one disturbing quote caught my eye, in the chapter on
 Ed> Sex Magic. >
 Ed> Yeah, I agree with Peggy... No Separate Rooms!

I trust you are being facetious or does the one room use have some special
Magickal significance..

... ----->|*  MARK!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
---
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:10:47 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


In article <JOSHUA.92Dec21014458@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
:
:In article <Dec.21.00.53.54.1992.2373@ruhets.rutgers.edu:
:farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
:
::  There are plenty of opposing opinions in this group without including
::  Xtians. I think the point is not so much to censor differences of
::  opinion as much as to limit the number of times one gets the same
::  fundie formulas ranted at one.
:
:(a) there are several christians already on this newsgroup whose opnions
:    are clueful and valued.
:
:(b) christian != fundie.
:

My apologies. I had meant fundies, but was replying in like terms to
the previous poster. 
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:04:39 GMT

locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu ( ) writes:

>I noticed something interesting today. The Masons use a form of multicolored
>inverted pentagram. I noticed it on a car next to the traditional compass
>& ruler emblem. Is there a masonic newsgroup? (I know there is a mailing list)

Actually, what you saw was the Eastern Star.  The Order of the Eastern Star is
the dependent order for women.  (Dependent in that one must either be a Master
Mason (male) or a wife, daughter, widow, sister, or mother of a Master Mason
(the female membership) to be a member of the Order of the Eastern Star.)

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Scott Locklin )
Subject: Re: Magic and Morals (was: Re: Harish)
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:58:52 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1hvf0nINNk8m@uwm.edu> hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>From article <1ht8lsINNbej@shelley.u.washington.edu>, by grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer):

>> The mechanics of magic do not involve moral principles.  The application
>> of magic, like any other human action, _necessarily_ involves moral
>> principles.

The probelm I have with all this (which I _do_ agree with to a certain extent)
is the concept of "morality." Because it is inherently subjective, it ceases
to have any useful meaning other than that it has to its user. To the NAZIs
the "fianl solution" was the moral thing to do in order to save humanity from
inferior genetics. There is no way of "prooving" their morality is inferior
to ours other than brute force. Too many variables...

There _is_ a sort of objective morality, or moral absolute. I adressed this 
question before on alt.satanism. It can be described using game theory & a 
crude form of cybernetics. I will attempt to find this article.

>But, is there any way to separate the mechanics of magick from its
>application?  I can't imagine how you can.  --and that being said
>we're left with thelema.  Absolute and purely relative.

Right...

>The problem with these questions is simple: ethics depends for
>justification on reason and reason is, by definition, finally
>incapable (on its own) of achieving an initiated point of view.  See
>William Blake.  ;-)

I am unsure of what is meant by an "initiated point of view"

>So let's just stop with all this "what if I put a hex on somebody" or
>"can I weild power [ha] any way I want to" or .... well, like I said,
>I'm just stunned these questions are even being asked...
>
>I suppose it can be nice to be nice, but only if you really need to
>be.

Actually, as I implied above, it is advantageous for one to "be nice" in
most situations...

-Scott
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Sex? Magic??
Summary: Sounds good, sign me up....
Date: 3 Jan 93 00:47:07 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <C07qtG.Ioq@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>In article <1993Jan01.223118.20106@rose.com>, mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka) writes...
>> Only one disturbing quote caught my eye, in the cahpter on Sex Magic.
>
Yeah, I agree with Peggy... No Separate Rooms!

					-eddie
From: jps8@po.CWRU.Edu (James P. Schwonek)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Bring her to me!
Date: 23 Dec 1992 23:39:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jps8@po.CWRU.Edu (James P. Schwonek)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Hello:

My name is Jim. I am 24 years old.

After four years at MIT, I am a programmer in the CWRU School of 
Medicine in Cleveland, Ohio.
I just received my MCAT scores and hope to be in Med School
next year.

I am 5' 11" tall with brown hair and deep brown sexy eyes.

I am single and looking for a white or asian woman for email
correspondence and possible meeting.

While my ultimate goal is marriage, I'd like to make friends first.


Hope to hear from you soon,

Jim

-- 
James P. Schwonek                         "One lesson, Nature,
SGI Iris Administrator/Programmer          let me learn of thee."
CWRU School of Medicine                           --Matthew Arnold
jps8@po.cwru.edu root@dpbiris.phol.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 09:15:34 GMT

scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis) writes:
: 
: my point exactly. glad we agree on a few things. 
: how to do good by using "bad" MAGIC.
: use the BAD magic to nail a fellow practioner who is your nemesis but who has`
: also been plagueing a town with his mischief. get it ?

I get it - but I don't agree. I have never felt that "two wrongs make a
right" - no matter how bad the original wrong.  I would expect two negative
actions to add to each other - not cancel.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo The Butcher=)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:21:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec23.010157.23506@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu () writes:
>: 
>: Another note on this, Kurt Saxon, author of innumerable books on improvised
>: weaponry & all around survivalist guru is a preist in the Church of Satan.
>: Imagine, I had his book, the "Poor Man's Armorer" for all these years & it was
>: written by a _Satanist_. Perhaps it had some subliminal mantra in it that
>: sent me in this direction ;).
>
>And, where did you get this factiod? I have not seen any such claim anywhere
>in his writing.

It is in the introduction to "The Satanic Witch" where Zeena LaVey describes
her satanic baptism. (Kurt Saxon made her a nice pentagram for the occasion) 

>I would not really describe him as a survivalist guru either. Most of what
>he has put together is just a rehash of other peoples work.

Most of what survivalism is is putting together knowledge from old army 
training manuals, popular mechanics books & whatnot. Doesn't seem to be much 
originality in the "technologies" & tactics used by survivalists. I dunno,
maybee he isn't a guru, but the Poor Man's Armorer is certainly a handy
reference for improvised munitions & whatnot. (In other words, he was my
guru on the subject)

-Scott
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: lowell@locus.com (Lowell Morrison)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Locus Computing Corp, Los Angeles
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:02:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.000209.2798@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu ( ) writes:
>I noticed something interesting today. The Masons use a form of multicolored
>inverted pentagram. I noticed it on a car next to the traditional compass
>& ruler emblem. Is there a masonic newsgroup? (I know there is a mailing list)
I'm sure that most of us belonging to that particular order never considered
the "Eastern Star" symbol as a pentigram.  It represents the five daughters
of some religeous figure (Job?, Job's Daughters is one of the junior 
orginazations).
And being the distaff side of masonry is sort of a "reflection" of the
"square and compass".  My Mother and Sister belonged to that Order, though
I have never participated and my memorys are hazy after 20 years of
non-participation.


--Lowell Morrison
--Uncle Wolf
>
>-Scott
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Adepti/Magister Formulae and Great Persons
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:32:20 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

In alt.magick, Thyagi (Tagi@cup.portal.com) writes...

>First, can someone define as clearly as possible the formulae
>for the Adepti and Magister?  If nobody bites on this I may have
>to revisit _Magick in Theory and Practice_ for some quotes.
>
>Second, can anybody detail the major events, in chronological 
>order, of several great persons?   [examples deleted]

What that other poster said seems right to me -- the myths came first,
then the formulae were extracted *from them*.

This leads us to an interesting area:  historical/mythological sources
of magical rituals.   Elphias Levi may be a good place to start, since
so much of modern magick came filtered through him.  Ladislas' examples
seem to suggest looking towards older alchemical texts, however;
i.e., how were the alchemists of olde influenced by the Christian (and
non-Christian) myths they were exposed to?

I'm currently (slowly) working through the G.D. grade rituals, and 
trying to extract the 'formulae' (I guess you could call it that) from
the masses of Victorian verbiage -- cypher mss notwithstanding.  My goal
is to construct simpler solitary rituals, but a scholarly analysis of 
mythological sources, and parallels with the lives/works of 'great mages'
would be very interesting as well.  If this has been done, (beyond what's
in the published histories -- e.g. "Magicians of the Golden Dawn", etc.)
I think many people would like to know where to look.

> Thyagi
(Tho I like the new moniker, you'll always be 'Tagi' to alt.magick!!

Steve Cranmer
                                                      Is it a dream?
                                   Nay but the lack of it the dream,
                      And failing it life's lore and wealth a dream,
                                          And all the world a dream.  - W.W.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: MINDWALKING Buddhists, oh my!
Keywords: MINDWALKING Buddhists, oh my!
Date: 24 Dec 92 12:26:32 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Thanks for posting this. A very interesting piece. It was in fact
through quantum mechanics that I first got involved with mysticism.
Most of the stuff is pretty standard for physics. Just one piece I
need to ask about.

In article <1992Dec23.231757.12367@linus.mitre.org>, tucker@maestro.mitre.org (William Tucker) writes:
:" Chapter 7
:
:The enfolding-unfolding universe and conciousness.
:
:Throughout this book the central underlying theme has been the unbroken 
:wholeness of the totality of existence as an undivided flowing movement 
:without borders. 
:
:It seems clear from the discussion in the previous chapter that the implicate 
:order is particularly suitable for the understanding of such
:unbroken wholeness in the flowing movement, for in the implicate order
:the totality of existence is enfolded within each region of space (and 
:time). So, whatever part, element, or aspect we may abstract in thought,
:this still enfolds the whole and is therefore intrinsically related to the 
:totality from which has been abstracted. Thus, wholeness permeates all
:that is being discussed from the very outset."
:
: ....[rest deleted]

This is not standard physics. Perhaps I ought to read the book for
myself. If you could give a flavor for where this comes from (in terms
of discussion), I would appreciate it.

As a point on Bohm, while he is recognized as an excellent physicist,
some of his ideas are regarded by the mainstream physics community as
interesting oddities. What I find especially curious about this piece
is that, unless I am mistaken, it was Bohm that developed a
deterministic quantum mechanics.

			-Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Xref: sparky alt.magick:6496 alt.satanism:2931
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:07:13 GMT
	<1992Dec25.093444.14720@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <1992Dec25.093444.14720@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com 
(bill nelson) writes:

>   As far as I know - the pentagram, whether inverted or not, was claimed to 
>   be an evil symbol by the Christians. 

wrong. it the upright pentagram was used as a christian symbol.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: cjk@netcom.com
Subject: Magick
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 07:03:08 GMT

I just joined this News group.  Hello everybody!

I seek knowledge to know, 
and wisdom, then power to grow.
Pride is my vice, humbleness my pride.
Disire my weapon, t'is sheathed by my side.
I desire and seek the fire, Prometheus's flame,
to thwart my ignorance, and lesson my shame.
To battle with Cain, and those of his ilk,
turn darkness to light, or dust and then silt.
The door, t'is locked, and I have no key,
but my thirst for wisdom, come share it with me?.

cjk@netcom.com
			Help, my penis has fallen and won't get up!
			Condom on....<clapclap> Condom off..<clapclap>
			Clap off.....<clapclap> Clap on.....<clapclap>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: kyoneyama@TrentU.CA (Kaffen Pathtrek)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Reply-To: kyoneyama@TrentU.CA
Organization: Trent University, Peterborough
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:20:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.150538.20257@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris) writes>
>In article <1992Dec16.194323.5575@wl.com>, anzlovar@wl.com (Bob Anzlovar) writes...               
>>>>                                                                                             
>>>>tell you what, I'll bet you $1000.00 that civilization will not                             
>>>>fall by any date you care to name. I'll go further; I will bet                             
>>>>$1000 against your $10 that civilization will not fall by any                             
>>>>date you care to name.                                                                   
>>>>                                                                                        
>>>>josh                                                                                   
>>>                                                                                       
>>>:-)... Can I get in on this action too?  I'm with Josh.                               
>>                                                                                    
>>Yeah, sure, like the $1000 is gonna do me any good after civilzation               
>>collapses. Are you willing to pay iin $1's so it's at least usable for            
>>wiping after visiting the bushes? :-)                                            
>>                                                                                
>>                                                                               
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~       
>>Bob Anzlovar                    | I wrote COBOL once, but I didn't like      
>>(anzlovar@wl.com)               | it. I didn't compile.                     
>>--                                                                         
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   
>>Bob Anzlovar                    | I wrote COBOL once, but I didn't like  

Hey... I noticed something interesting in the headers of your message...
something about "Hail Eris".... Tell me... what does that mean?... I've seen it
somewhere else before too....


>>(anzlovar@wl.com)               | it. I didn't compile.
>
>I don't know, Bob... it has to assume some form... seems to me that it would
>be a hell of a lot easier to guide it through than to try to rebuild it..
From: mccalld@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:24:37 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

> 
> I find it ironic that modern fundies have latched onto the pentagram as a
> Satanic symbol.  Amazing how gullible people are.
> 
 ammanda, it's not that ironic....really!...the dualists of good and evil
are constantly doing some kind of division in this area to keep their desparate
microcosms in some kind of logical balence.
dmc
 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: anzlovar@wl.com (Bob Anzlovar)
Subject: Re: misc.magick... (FAQ addendum)
Organization: Warner Lambert / Parke-Davis
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:56:23 GMT

In article <72038@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>Peggy mentioned a FAQ addendum including introductions by people who post
>here regularly.  I think it is a good idea but don't want to put the
>effort into compiling it myself.  I don't think Peggy has the time either
>and ask for someone else to take on the job.
>
>Perhaps a newbie who would like to get to know us each very well?

I guess I'm a newbie since I'm not a regular poster. I could do this,
but my ability to keep up will be somewhat erratic in the next couple
weeks as I will be moving to another state, with some loss of computer
connectivity. 

However, E-Mail doesn't expire, so if you famous folks want to send me
your who's-who-on-alt.magick bios, I'll compile them & send it out.

Does anyone have any ideas how long the bios should be? Once I have the
bios compiled, I'll send it first to the people I received it from & if
no one has any big problems with it, I'll put it on the list. Whomever
does the normal FAQ post will have to take it from there as I don't
really have the means of automatically posting (Is that you, josh?). 

>(evil grin) }:I

I'm not sure I like the look of this, but... what the hell!

			-bob
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob Anzlovar                    | I wrote COBOL once, but I didn't like
(anzlovar@wl.com)               | it. I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.satanism
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 02:04:44 GMT

To say "the pentagram was considered an evil symbol by the Christians" is
a little ... well, general.

I haven't searched the whole corpus of Christian literature, and tallied
up all the mentions of pentagrams-good and pentagrams-bad, but I would
like to point out that (a) the pentagram occurs in "Sir Gawain and the Green
Knight," and not as an evil symbol; (b) the pentagram was often regarded
as emblematic of the Five Wounds of Christ; and (c) the pentagram was
not an evil symbol for Pythagoreans, and there was a strong current
of admiration, in Christian tradition (though not a unanimous one), for
"noble pagans" -- Pythagoras, Plato, various Stoics, Plotinus, and so
on.  A good example of the ambivalence in Christian tradition toward
writers and thinkers is Dante's treatment of Virgil.

Can anyone come up with a specific text originating from the first
thousand years of Christianity denouncing the pentagram as an innately
evil symbol?  I wouldn't be surprised, myself, if the first occurrence
of such texts was some time within the past two centuries.  Or five
centuries.

--LeGrand



Newsgroups: alt.magick