From: maechan@ccl.umist.ac.uk (MAEDA Toshiyuki)
Newsgroups: fj.news.policy
Subject: Re: Mails from abroad (Re: auto reply program)
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:30:24 GMT
	<GOOD.92Nov5123123@mtgw.mt.canon-soft.co.jp>
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology
In-reply-to: good@mt.canon-soft.co.jp's message of 5 Nov 92 03:31:23 GMT

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>> 5 Nov 92 03:31:23 GMT $B0L$K!"(B
>> $B%a%C%;!<%8#I#D(B <GOOD.92Nov5123123@mtgw.mt.canon-soft.co.jp> $B$G(B$B!"(B
>> good@mt.canon-soft.co.jp (TEZUKA Yoshitomo) $B$5$s(B ( as "$B<jDM(B" ) $B[)$/!"(B
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From pjh@uknet.ac.uk Thu Nov  5 13:36:21 1992
From: pjh@uknet.ac.uk (Peter.Houlder)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Various UKnet Issues
Date: 20 Oct 92 08:39:05 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: UKnet

Anyone quoting this correspondence should note the date. The
facts stated below are correct today, but as with any company
we reserve our right to adjust our policies, directorship and 
charges according to the needs of the market.

1) GBnet Ltd is 100% owned by the University of Kent

2) GBnet Ltd does have an agreement with the JNT whereby it
   routes all mail from Universities Polytechnics and certain
   other agreed research establishments to and from the
   .uucp domain. 

3) Any site with an MX record in the DNS is also reachable
   via UKnet, providing no-one along the route is blocking
   or dropping mail. 
   
4) Many sites had assumed the right to name 
		uk.ac.uknet
   as a JANET application relay, i.e they assumed that as an
   example, because they were:
	bloggs.uucp		
	AND/OR
	bloggs.co.uk	
   that they therefore had the right to name UKnet as an application
   relay and therefore had the right to the third form of addressing
	uk.co.bloggs		i.e Greybook naming
   this is simply not true. GBnet Ltd is NOT funded and has NO
   obligation to offer application relay facilities to anyone
   that is NOT a UKnet customer.

   BUT - As a gesture of goodwill and because a few people have had the 
   courtesy to approach us on this matter GBnet Ltd will continue to offer
   an application relay service to existing sites after November 1st.

   We would however request that ANY newsites that are NOT part of
   UKnet should ask:
		postmaster@uknet.ac.uk
   before they name UKnet as an application relay.

5) UKnet now automatically sends u.gbr.100 to the newsgroup uk.net.maps 
   every tuesday, latest posting 2:56 this morning. Updates to u.gbr.100
   should be sent to 
		postmaster@uknet.ac.uk
   The u.gbr.100 map contains non-UKnet uucp site details and is
   used alongside u.gbr.[0-8] (The UKnet maps) and all the world
   uucp maps to build nightly the UKnet's uucp routing database.

As a general issue a few sites have assumed that they can simply leave
UKnet and things will simply work easily. UKnet has  provided 365 day
a year mail services for over 10 years. Originally this was carried
out by the dedication of a small band of people who were devoted to its
success. UKnet is now run within the GBnet Ltd company and we have a policy 
of continuous improvement in our service levels from the already high level
of existing services, but it must be remembered that when there are network
problems on a national or international we will endeavour to help the whole
networking community, but UKnet customers will ALWAYS get first priority.

Keith Mitchell and I will shortly be issuing a statement concerning
Pipex and GBnet Ltd routing and interworking issues. It would be
wise to read the above carefully and then wait for a joint statement from 
Keith and myself before anyone comments further as Keith and I hope to
further clarify issues.

After this note and our joint statement please address any further queries to
		postmaster@uknet.ac.uk
If the issues you raise are private we will answer privately. If they are
issues of general concern I will ensure that UKnet answers them publicly.

I must now re-emphasise that what I have stated above applies NOW, but
GBnet Ltd reserves the right to take whatever action it considers necessary
to ensure the best services first for its customers and secondly for
the networking community as a whole, so all issues are always open to
re-analysis.

Peter Houlder - 20th October 1992

From adrian@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk Thu Nov  5 13:36:45 1992
From: adrian@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (Adrian Hall)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Various UKnet Issues
Date: 20 Oct 92 09:28:57 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, Harrow, England

Peter.Houlder writes :
>As a general issue a few sites have assumed that they can simply leave
>UKnet and things will simply work easily. 

And why should they not? Is there any reason why mail transfer should not
continue effortlessly should the customer want to leave UKnet and join
a customer? 

Thank you for that statement, Peter - it cleared a lot of things up.

Adrian

From mathew@mantis.co.uk Thu Nov  5 13:36:58 1992
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Various UKnet Issues
Date: 21 Oct 92 13:59:06 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

pjh@uknet.ac.uk (Peter.Houlder) writes:
> 4) Many sites had assumed the right to name 
> 		uk.ac.uknet
>    as a JANET application relay, i.e they assumed that as an
>    example, because they were:
> 	bloggs.uucp		
> 	AND/OR
> 	bloggs.co.uk	
>    that they therefore had the right to name UKnet as an application
>    relay and therefore had the right to the third form of addressing
> 	uk.co.bloggs		i.e Greybook naming
>    this is simply not true. GBnet Ltd is NOT funded and has NO
>    obligation to offer application relay facilities to anyone
>    that is NOT a UKnet customer.
> 
>    BUT - As a gesture of goodwill and because a few people have had the 
>    courtesy to approach us on this matter GBnet Ltd will continue to offer
>    an application relay service to existing sites after November 1st.

So why did mail sent from JANET to uk.co.mantis via an AR of uk.ac.uknet get
diverted to Logitek and bounced?  And why did this just happen to occur at
exactly the same time that mantis was mysteriously missed out of the
u.gbr.100 map?  Why did this, in turn, occur at roughly the same time we
finally stopped paying UKnet bills and moved completely over to IBMPCUG?

It may be coincidence, but it's a damned strange coincidence.  Maybe a few
innocent mistakes were made this time, but in future you should probably be
extra careful to ensure that your innocent little mistakes don't all occur as
suspiciously close to each other.  It's also interesting that no similar
problems ever occurred when we were UKnet customers.

In short, I'm afraid I find it hard to trust UKnet to look after the UUCP
maps, act as an AR, and act as the UK backbone site.  I know that I am by no
means alone; even JANET system administrators have expressed similar doubts
to me.

>    We would however request that ANY newsites that are NOT part of
>    UKnet should ask:
> 		postmaster@uknet.ac.uk
>    before they name UKnet as an application relay.

Is UKnet paid by JANET to gateway mail from JANET to the Internet/UUCP world,
or is it not?  If it is, surely you should do the job no matter where the
destination is?

> As a general issue a few sites have assumed that they can simply leave
> UKnet and things will simply work easily.

Oh, I expected problems.  I've heard similar horror stories about companies
who dared to leave BT for Mercury in the early days.  The fact is that the
money we save by getting news and mail from IBMPCUG rather than UKnet can pay
for an awful lot of my time to spend on fixing problems.


mathew
-- 
Civilization is just a temporary failure of entropy.
$B!]!]!]$3$3$^$G!]!]!](B

$B<jDM(B>  |$B7C(B$B$^$l$?4D6-$K$$$k$H$=$l$,Ev$jA0$H;W$&$s$@$h$M$((B $B$W$i(B
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	$BA0ED!w7W;;8@8l3X%;%s%?!%#U#M#I#S#T(B$B!%%$%.%j%9(B
--
MAEDA Toshiyuki [ maechan@ccl.umist.ac.uk / maechan@crl.mei.co.jp ]
  Centre for Computational Linguistics,
  The University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology, U.K.