From: REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Messiah Soon?
Date: 18 Nov 92 08:33:25 GMT
Organization: FNAL

In article <Nov.17.03.28.54.1992.26413@geneva.rutgers.edu>
xxbrent@convx1.lerc.nasa.gov (Brent Anderson) writes:
>Greetings!
>I have some questions on the subject of the return of Christ:
>Do most Christians believe that we are living in the "End Times"?

I doubt if most feel it.  That of course signifies nothing!

>What are the signs of the "End Times"?  (Bible quotes, if possible)

There are no signs given unto the Church!  
Signs are characteristic of the nation of Israel. 

>What are some common interpretations of these verses?

> 1) When might we look for the Messiah to appear

"Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to
be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord
will come just like a thief in the night."(1 Thess. 5:1,2)
It's imminent.  Its a surprise.  There is nothing that has to take place before
the Lord's returns for the Church.  (This discounts mid and post
tribulationalism) 

> 2) what might the world political climate be like between now and then.

If you are referring to the 2nd advent, then Dan 9:24 & 2 Thess 2:3, plus Matt
24, 25, all refer to the climate.  In Dan we read that a "firm covenant" will
take place.  The Hebrew word, "gibbor" translated, "firm" means "forced." 
Israel will be forced to sign a covenant of peace.  

Also, the world political & religious gov't will no longer have to deal with
the Church.  The Church does not go through the tribulation period.
 a.  Dan 9:24 "your people"  It is judgment/wrath on Israel, not the Church
 b.  Rev 3:10 "kept from the hour of testing"  The verb "kept" and the
preposition "from" are of great significance.  "From" means to "come out of" 
 c.  2 Thess 2:6-9  Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way."  Though the HS is
omnipresent, He is particular to the Church as signified in "baptidzmo". 
Christ stated that He had to leave so that the HS could come.  The Church is
characterized by the ministry of the indwelling and sealing of the HS.  Also,
who is there other than the Creator who can restrain the foremost creature,
Lucifer (Ezek 28).  Seeing as how it has to be God who restrains Satan, and
seeing as how Christ now sits at the right had of the Father, and that the
Comforter has been sent, it is the Lord's Spirit that is removed and the Church
that He has sealed unto perfection.
 d.  The Churches commission is to witness of the 1st Adv of Christ.  In the
tribulation, it is the 144,000 and the 2 witness' who are given the ministry of
witnessing the 2nd Advent.  Their witness is seen as being typical for *JEWS*
being saved, not gentiles.  
 e.  The Anti-X would be confronted by the Church as to setting up his
religious empire.
 f.  Titus 2:13 "looking for"  again, no preceding events
 g. Rev 19:7-9  Couldn't be a partial rapture or you would have a partial
bride!
     
> 4) What signs may precede his appearing
 a.  The "firm" covenant
 b.  A western unified economic block run by an elite, run by one man
 c.  A western unified religious block headed by the same man as the economic
block.  (He will be a gentile and will have a Jewish companion. The former is
the Anti-X and is the beast out of the sea, (gentile nations)  and the later is
the false prophet, or the beast out of the land (Israel).     Rev 13:1 & 13:11)
 d.  After the removal of the Church, 1/4 of humanity dies (Rev 6)
 e.  After a reign of 3 1/2 years, 10 million Jews will be killed (by today's
population)
 Zech 12:9,10 "that" day; takes and Ad for the Jews to recognize Jesus as
Messiah.
 Zech 13:8,9  2/3rds of Jews die, 1/3 lives to enter the millennium w/o tasting
death
 f.  The down fall of the religious empire (Rev 17; Hosea 2,3)
 g.  The down fall of the economic/political empire (Rev 18)
 h.  Resurrection of OT & tribulation elect (Dan 12:1 Rev 20:4; Ezek 20:33-38)

> 3) What signs may accompany his appearing
 a.  All the nations of the world will have gathered in the middle east for the
sole purpose
     of annihilating the Israelites.  
 b.  Rev. 19:11-16
    1)  White horse;  Faithful and true vs the white horse of 6:19 (cf. Zech
6:2-8)
    2)  Comes with the armies that *have been* washed white. (Can't be angels
because the elect angels were never dirty.) (cf. Jude 14,15; Joel 3:9-11)

Also, if one chooses to argue against this evident premillennial view, then
please read Lev. 23, and let the reader understand the significance of the 7
feasts.  The 5th, 6th, and 7th feast have not yet been celebrated by the
nation.  Those are the feasts of Trumpets (cf. I Cor 15:51,52), feast of
Atonement (cf Rom 11:26 cp Zech 12:10) and the feast of tabernacles.  In Lev
23:15-21 we are shown the feast of Pentecost then the intervening period of
gleaning, vv. 23-25 (cf Jn 4:35), a time of harvest followed by 4 blasts of the
trumpet, the last of the four being longer and louder than the previous 3;  "at
the last trumpet" cp. I Thes 4 & "being caught out of" 


>Where does the term "Rapture" originate, and what does it mean?

Its the Latin rendition of the Greek term "caught up" (I Thes 4:17)
1)  this is the blessed hope of the Church (Tit 2:13)
2)  "saved from the wrath of God"  (Rom 5:9)
3)  "delivered from wrath to come" (I Thes 1:10)
4)  not appointed unto wrath (I Thes 5:9)
5)  comforting news (I Thes 4:18)

>How will people recognize Christ when He returns?

All that are alive on earth, "will see whom they have pierced"

>What is the purpose of His returning?

To establish his millennial kingdom
>
> 5) What might lie ahead for religious Jews and evangelical Christians

By "religious Jews", I'm assuming you mean, messianic Jews, who are the same as
Christians.  Their history is our history.  If you mean Jews who are "orthodox"
then they will enter the tribulational period.  THe 1st 3 1/2 years are
relatively peaceful, and they are able to rebuild the temple at least to the
point of starting up the animal sacrifices again.

 
> 6) What should these two groups be doing now, if anything

*GIVE OUT THE GOSPEL*  The "watchers" are to warn (Ez 33:1-6- very important
passage).  The church is to provoke Israel to jealousy (Rom 11:11).  "To who
much is given, much is expected" and "do you not know that the teacher will
receive a stricter judgment" and that house cleaning starts in the church
first.

THe Church needs to get its act together.

Rex