HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:15:11 GMT

kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes:
>Allow me to introduce myself.  Though I'm not motss, I am willing to keep
>my mind open.

	Good for you --- prepare to have it filled.
Also there is an assignment and a quiz.  Hope you studied, it
ain't easy.

>Education is better (though it won't solve the problem of religiously
>motivated gay bashers).  Actually, if a person is sufficiently open
>minded, they can go against their cultural training (I know my parents
>do not support gay rights); but then, it's the closed-minded people one
>has to worry about anyway.

	You talk of education yet in your-oh-so-enlightened rhetoric
you haven't even succeeded in educating your parents.  I would
further that you haven't even bothered to educate yourself.
So, the quiz:

	1) How many gay/lesbian people were killed by the Nazis?
		[Hint look it up]
	2) How many states have a sodomy law?  Part II, of those states
how many only criminalize homosexual sodomy?

	3) How many states have gay-rights laws?  Name them and the
year that the law passed.  Part II - how many votes for such
came up in 1992?  Where?

	4) Who is Judge Hampton - why is he important to knowing about
gay rights?

	That's enough for starters.  You don't expect that WE are
here to educate YOU do you?  If heterosexuals took any amount of
time at all to learn about equal rights, etc. they would not have
voted for Prop 2 or Prop 9 in the first place.

	the Assignment: talk to your parents about Colorado Amendemnt 2
andtry to get them to understand why it is a bad thing.  EXTRA CREDIT:
at NO time during this, fall back on your own heterosexuality as a
"safe position", i.e. "I'm straight but I think....." - just discuss
the merits of the case.

	Then and only then I think you'll have enough background
to come into our space and tell us what to do.  In the mean time
I think you'll learned a valuable lesson and might understand what it's
like to be an opressed minority.  I think that your heart is in the
right place but your perspective still suffers too kmuch from the 
heterocentric privilege.  When you can divorce yourself from that
you'll be a long way...

Cheers, BBC
>
>--
>/---------------------------------------------------------\
>| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
>|                        |           giant badger..."     |
>|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
>| magney@cco.caltech.edu |      search for the Holy Grail |
>\---------------------------------------------------------/
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Misogyny on soc.motss (was Re: Thugsy twins)
Summary: I'm for it.
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:38:52 GMT
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!

In article <1992Nov12.121028.362@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>You got somethin' against fish, or what?  Homophobes don't
>need any help to look moronic.  Neither do misogynists.

Are you implying that there's some connection between misogyny
and stupidity? You'd better be prepared to back that up. Ambrose
Bierce was a misogynist. So was Plato. Nietzsche. Augustine. Oscar
Wilde.

If you're calling Wilde a moron, I'll have to ask you to step
outside...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
		--Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:10:52 GMT

In article <BOB.92Nov7190920@dolores.Stanford.EDU>, bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:
> In article <Bx3I0n.A4y@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent
> Capps) writes: 
> 
>    Pinko        (PINK-oh) n. 1. An all-purpose innuendo used to imply that your
> 		opponent may be a homosexual when you don't have any actual
> 		evidence and don't want to be sued for libel, in which case
> 		you can maintain that, really, pink is just a shade of red,
> 		honest.  See the pyramids along the Nile.
> 
> Really?  I learned all this terminology back when I was so closeted I
> didn't know there was a door, and "pinko" meant Communist, not gay.

  I suspect that Brent is confusing Archie Bunker's famous rant about
"Commie pinko fags". A "pinko" as far as I ever remember always refered
to a communist or communist sympathizer (which is probably where the
term came from as in "a little Red"). 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:09:42 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov12.171921.126594@watson.ibm.com>, nomad@watson.ibm.com
(Lee `nomaD` Damon) wrote:

> One student, yes, I can see this happening. I can't buy it when there are
> 18 (or 16, different reports) students involved. We are talking actions
> taken against a class of people, not a single instance.

I have to admit, 18 is a large number.  This thread has oscillated
between one specific case (someone named Eric?) and a class action.
What is the overall size of the drama department at CMU?  What's the
regular turn over?  We - myself included - are arguing this case
without a lot of supporting evidence.  Even dismissing 18 people 
needn't be the sign of anything malicious.  The turn-over in any
highly-acclaimed professional program is high.  Medical schools,
law schools, film schools.  Not nearly as many make it to the end
as start at the beginning.  Some drop out voluntarily.  Some
are eliminated by the school for not measuring up to some arbitrary
standard - which, while arbitrary, is still a standard; and, it is
the school's right to set such standards.

*X*
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47296 alt.politics.homosexuality:7121 co.politics:1891
From: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:56:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov13.005632.22657
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Gary Strand wrote:
:  Which is not *sufficient* reason to claim that homosexuals are being dis-
:  criminated against in this society. They are, make no doubt about it, but
:  the fact that teens commit suicide because they're gay isn't proof. 

Whoa!  Where *are* you coming from?  I'd swear that you've just said
that gays *are* being discriminated against in this society and that
there's no doubt of it.

Fine.

Now it seems you want to illegalize measures to prevent this.

Why?

--tom
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:43:51 PST

In article <1992Nov5.144005.28726@macc.wisc.edu>, on 5 Nov 92 14:40:05 GMT,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>
>
>In article <19921104235835ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
>ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>
>>I'd be delighted to meet [...] Matthew Melmon.  He has a
>>delicious sense of humor [...]
>
>Do it!  Then we'll have a Gang of One (or a little less).
>You guys can sit around and roar at pictures from Somalia
>for fun.
>
Hardly! We'd be much too busy organizing drug dealers to roam the inner
cities looking to shoot up crack babies. (Actually, I mustn't speak for
Matthew as I don't know his position on drug legalization).

>--
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
>
        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Good news, Good news, Bad news and revenge
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:06:13 GMT

broughton@lambda.usask.ca () wrote: 
->If you really believed in helping the situation, you would cancel your tickets
->and put as little money into the Colorado economy as possible.
->
->If you aren't willing to sacrifice a little to help the cause, then don't
->pretend you really care.

darrell: when you throw out several hundred dollars in airline tickets
then others will follow ... until then it's probably best if you'd
shut up until you can put your moeny where your mouth is.

(besides, who says they can't use the opportunity to fly to colorado
to protest the measure?)

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Rockville)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:28:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxB7FB.2wp
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

>  We need to send a message loud and clear that this sort of hatred
>and intolerance is unacceptable and back it up with the sort of 
>condemnation that anybody can understand: cash. Oregon and Colorado
>are major tourist areas (especially Co) a full scale boycott of 
>skiing etc. to Colorado would *really* hurt where it counts. I think
>that secondary boycotts of companies who happen to be located in
>Colorado would be less effective since it is less visible.

I think for the most part you are spot-on, but secondary boycotts could hurt
more than you might expect.  Although it is not as obvious to the general
public, if the secondary businesses are hurt badly enough by a boycott, they
will do one of the things that business does best : Lobby.  If they lose a
significant enough portion of their profit, and IT IS MADE CLEAR TO THEM THAT
THE REASON IS MEASURE 2, they will in turn petition the state government that
Measure 2 is harming their business.  Admittedly, this is not as publicly
visible, but I feel in the long run it can be as effective as boycotting such
things as tourism.

$0.02
-- 
Michael T. Chaffee        |****COLORADO BOYCOTTER******|  ______    
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46491 pnw.motss:61
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Letter from OCA post-election: real or hoax?
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:36:22 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

ric@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Graffiti 404-972-4999) writes:
>This message appeared on the GEnie online service. I am the sysop of the
>gay & lesbian issues forum and this was entered by one of our users:

	[text of letter deleted]

	This appeared in Oregon circa 3 weeks before the election.
It has a dubious history, which was discussed a little on the
pdx-motss mailing list.

	Apparently, so it was told 50,000 of these were printed up,
and were supposed to have been placed at all sorts of public
areas, train stations, libraries and the like.  There were reports
that some people actually DID see them.

	There was an alleged tie-in with the OCA in that one church
supposedly received this letter *from* the OCA and supposedly checked
into it enough to say it did originate there.  But no other instances
of other churches, etc. getting this letter corroborated it.

	My theory is that members of the OCA did print it up and
teried to distribute it - but not in an official capacity with the OCA.
That way MAbon, et alia could disavow any link to it, yet get any support
out of it.  Given the incestual relationships between Fundie hate-camps
it's very likely that some fringe group got a go-ahead to do this.

	I would have no problem seeing it printed in pro-GBLO* things
with ellipses placed in strategic locations.  After all those-who-hate
have no problem twisting our words...


	I haven't read any posts on the wonderful news from this morning
though... I'll bet old Lonster is coughing up blood....  :-)

(post to follow)...
BBC
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Combined Federal Campaign
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:50:02 GMT
Organization: NIST

To federal employees:

It is time once again for the Combined Federal Campaign.  Given recent
events, this could be very important.  You can have part of your
salary deducted as a contribution to the following organizations.
All you need to do is fill out your CFC card and turn it in the
the proper person.

#1026  Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund (212)995-8585
#1093  New Ways Ministry  -  A ministry for LGB Catholics (301)227-5674
#1292  National Center for Lesbian Rights (415)621-0674
#1214  Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (202)638-4200

I have given to Lambda in the past.  They told me they get a significant
part of their budget from the CFC.

There are also a number of AIDS/HIV groups, and, unfortunately, the Christian
Broadcasting Network, the Heritage Foundation, the American Family Association,
the Eagle Forum, etc.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:30:28 GMT

In article <mattm-091192122948@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>I was sent the following alert - which actually went out to
>engineers in the field

No!

>(the mega-corporation responsible shall go without name...).

You're such a coy boy.

>Persons responsible for sending me this
>memo expressed the belief that it was genuine.

And I promise I won't cum in your mouth, Matthew.

>While I do believe the memo went out,

I believe you do believe it did.

>I also believe the person who wrote it was 
>well aware of opportunities for alternative interpretation...

Really?  Do you think so?

The memo itself is pretty funny; it originated on IBM's VNET 3-4 years ago
_as a joke_ (wow, IBMers can be deliberately funny) and then turned into a
chain letter as it was forwarded to everyone in existence.  But it's even
funnier in its full IBM memo format while being read on a 3270 screen.

>There are far too many buried jewels (sudden discharge, any
>customer missing his balls...) for this to have been something
>less than a brilliant flash of bureaucratic faboolzery.

Gee, nothing escapes you, Matty.  Your own article is even funnier.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:03:15 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <mattm-111192151418@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.215211.14314@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) wrote:
>
>> Oh, yes!  Any of them Faggots who can't be retrained to be closet
>> cases and act like strayt white min will just have to be THROW OUT!
>> 
>> Halleluyah!  
>
>Very slowly, now - so as to make sure none of the words fall 
>through cracked minds:  actors assume the lives of people *other*
>than themselves.  Telling an actor to carry himself in a 'manly'
>way during the course of a part is *not* the same thing as 
>telling the actor to change the way he lives his *own* life.
>
>Where is the conceptual difficulty in that?

	As one of our resident actors, I've been meaning to
	jump into this thread, but wasn't sure where to begin.

	I think I'll choose Matthew to agree with (mostly),
	just to throw everyone for a loop. 

	As I just said, I agree with Matthew here -- with the
	provision that it is certainly not CMU's business to
	second-guess their students' potential future roles,
	and that while an actor who plays, say, Stanley Kowalski
	(felicitous example!) in a non-butch way wouldn't be
	doing their job, there are probably ten non-macho
	(or not necessarily macho) male roles for every Stanley
	or Hairy Ape.

	Besides, it's the director's business to fit the 'type'
	to the role, more than it is the actor's.

	Finally, contrary to the impression Steve Dyer had, the
	original posting gave me the strong impression that
	CMU was harrassing people for their (perceived!)
	behavoir offstage, not on.  This is completely
	inexcusable -- and so typical of a closet mentality.

	I was appalled by the original story.  I think the
	discussion has gotten seriously sidetracked.

	And now I have a bus to catch.

	-R


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steve@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com (Steve Brosky)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Tampa results
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:53:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
NNTP-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com

We lost in Tampa.  I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but
it was close.  The numbers were in today's paper, and I seem to 
remember 56% - 44%.  

Early on in this fight there were enough signatures disqualified from
the petitions to remove the referendum from the ballot.  The judge who
reinstated the disqualified signatures was my lover's uncle.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:12:04 GMT

ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>
>>        You know there are times when I really wish that things
>>never progressed...  what I mean by this is that the larger you
>>make your bucket the more undesirable things fall in.

>Who the fuck gives a damn about how you make your bucket!

	Look - it's trying to think!

>>        (Gack will I ever stop speaking in metaphors?)

>I doubt it. You seem to flourish better using vague hazy tones with
>shades of innuendo rather than making intelligible precise clear
>remarks which deal with the issue at hand.

	HA!

	Yeah, right.  Look, don't waste my time.  If you weren't so 
pathetic, it might be fun - but there are so many things to do
and so many ways to constructive use my energy that hon, you simply
don't make the list.  As for our relative contributions, I certainly
don't need to produce a resume.  Most certainly not for your edification.
Eat my dust, pal.

	Into the KILL file....

	I miss Clay, sometimes.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:56:32 GMT


In article <1992Nov12.035614.14567@funlwb.enet.dec.com>
sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com (Mike Sunderland) writes:

>I do know a lot of people who would share the views that you label
>"Abstenance based". 

Oh, we don't have a lock on Puritanism, and I believe
Australia has at least the normal amount of sexism -- more
than that, according to the few data points I know about.

>If you want to be stereo-typed and caricatured then go right ahead and keep
>on doing what your doing now, because it makes you sound like a raving bloody
>loony.  

While your remark, presumably, is free of stereotypes and
couldn't possibly be the result of raving or looniness, one
gathers.  Was that it?

>If you want to foster some understanding and honesty, then be ready
>to listen and be listened to.

Knowing how to read satire might help a bit, too.

>And BTW, isn't there a lot more to life than
>seeking pleasurable experiences?

Under what I would call the most useful definition of
pleasure, the answer to that would be no, seeking
pleasurable experience would be *all* of life.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: buckmr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: The New Yorker magazine supports Colorado!
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:08:14 GMT

robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky) writes:

>The _New Yorker_ magazine, with (I suspect) a large gay readership,
>supports Colorado by using a 'fulfillment service' in Boulder to
>process subscriptions.

Speaking of the NEW YORKER, does anyone know which issue that article about
Quayle and Kimberlin appears? I can't seem to find it. Also, what did people
think of the Ebola Rexton article? Scary stuff!

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``Clinton-Gore 92!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"Straight White Male Privilege is like bad breath: no one notices they have it,
but if you point it out you're an asshole." -- G. Dauphin, _Village Voice_
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher)
Subject: Re: Hell has frozen over
Organization: National Computer Systems, San Jose, CA  95131
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:39:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov2.222426.9810@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:
>In his column today in the NY Times (reprinted in the SF Chronicle and
>doubtless many other places) William Safire supports Clinton for president.

For those of you who don't remember William Safire, he along with Pat
Buchanan was a speech writer for Richard Nixon.  Safire's column
aren't always of political bent, they often talk about the (dis)use of
the English language.

Chuck

-- 
Chuck Fisher                                        (800) 359-7997 Work
ncselxsi system administrator                       (415) 964-2819 Home
uucp:  ...!netcom!ncselxsi!fisher
Newsgroups: soc.motss