HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: btd@IASTATE.EDU (Benjamin T Dehner)
Subject: ogging carriers
Reply-To: btd@IASTATE.EDU (Benjamin T Dehner)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:05:09 GMT

	When playing on a team that doesn't have a lot of clue/isn't very
well organized, is it a good idea to ogg the opponent carriers?  I'm not
real great at ogging, and usually end up running out of fuel or getting blown
up by escorts whenever I try chasing down a carrier by myself.  Should I keep
trying, or wait untill I can get help, or just keep an eye on him (or her)
until they go for a planet?
	Also, I seem to have noticed I'm best at avoiding oggs when I have lots
of kills but am not carrying any armies.  Guess the extra weight from the
armies
messes up your maneuverability :(.

Cthulhu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin T. Dehner          Department of Physics and Astronomy 
btd@iastate.edu             Iowa State University 
                            Ames, IA 50011
From: skyhawk@milton.u.washington.edu (Scott Northrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Golden Bears vs Lagg U
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:03:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.skyhawk.712292608
Reply-To: skyhawk@u.washington.edu
Organization: very little

In <14dp9cINN8k8@agate.berkeley.edu> labc-4aa@web-2h.berkeley.edu (CS 60C Lab Assistant) writes:
>Undead dies by 4 carriers??????? surprise ogg?
>
>did he at least fire?  geez.....

Actually, I was flying my trusty scout.  :)  (Damn, that was fun.)
I think at least one of the other guys was flying a DD, but I can't be sure.

(By "carriers" you mean cruisers, yes?  None of us were carrying . . .)

-- 
Scott Northrop            skyhawk@u.washington.edu          (206)784-2083
ObVirus:  As a juror in a Trial by Jury, you have the right, power and duty
          to acquit the defendant if you judge the law itself to be unjust.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Vote: Most improved summer player
Originator: fortony@murphy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:34:18 GMT

spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:


>rob> My vote: its a toss up between icarus and purple haze, in my
>rob> opinion.

>and add Ikko-ikki

sniff

>Commodore Mergatroid
>Commodore Pestilence!
>"The Last" Admiral Wangchuck
>-- 
>			l2o
>Scott Draves		gso
>spot@cs.cmu.edu		ddn
-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:33:00 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Iggy SB's....
	<155hgpINNkcd@agate.berkeley.edu>

Tom says:

>Disorganized teams *will* lose, with or without lame robots attacking
>them.  The reason iggy bugs me is not because of what he does to my teams,
>it's because fighting robots is the most BORING thing you can do in netrek;
>it's the thing you used to have to do waiting for t-mode on Sequent, it's
>not what you want to do in a real game.  

	I agree on both points, HOWEVER, there are 3 Iggys/hour on bronco.  If
an average player dies 25 times/hour (low estemate, I think) that's 200
enemies for 3 'bots.  Half those 'bots should fight your enemies, so
that's one 'bot for over 100 enemies.  Even if you don't like 'bots, it
shouldn't be a big deal.  As for disorganized teams, they have no
buisness on bronco.  Let's clear them off as quickly as possible.

>The HALs declaring war on everyone is even worse, because they also
>encourage bombing third-race planets (opposite your opponent's sector,
>of course).  So you can wind up with two HALs and an iggy in the game.
>Sounds like chaos night, not netrek.

Hmmmmm. . . my normal reason to bomb third-race space is to bring in a
'bot so that if I get injured I can declair war with it, thereby
repairing and refueling without giving a kill to the Fed planet Scums. 
Is this Chaos?  I can do it on any server.  Having the 'bot declare war
is a bit of a pain because I have to go and summon a new one.  It's not
a big thing in my mind, though, because I can just go and make a new
one.  Chaos is when you don't have 1-on-1 t-mode.

ZZnew guy
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:30:48 -0400 
From: Greg K Chung <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: CMU arrogance, defined
	<157n9kINN215@agate.berkeley.edu>

In article <geRgUwC00Voq4100tJ@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
)
)	I agree on both points, HOWEVER, there are 3 Iggys/hour on bronco.  If
)an average player dies 25 times/hour (low estemate, I think) that's 200
)enemies for 3 'bots.  Half those 'bots should fight your enemies, so
)that's one 'bot for over 100 enemies.  Even if you don't like 'bots, it
)shouldn't be a big deal.  As for disorganized teams, they have no
)buisness on bronco.  Let's clear them off as quickly as possible.

OK, give Iggy tracking torps and 400-point plasmas, then.  It will make
him easier for good players to kill and harder for idiots.  Of course,
it will make it even more like chaos mode and less like netrek.
 -Mojo



Over the past several threads, it has become apparent that CMU is simply
the most arrogant netrek campus there is.  

When everyone whines about Iggy, we say "deal with it."
When everyone whines about unfair teams, we say "live with it."
We have the best starbase, the best oggers, the best planet takers, the
best bombers, the best teams...

Basically, CMU is the best when it comes to netrek.  Better than
Berkeley, better than MIT and certainly better than Harvard.  And that
silly other college in PENNsylvania...hah!  Don't waste my time.



The point of it all -- CMU people are just arrogant.  And with the
demise of Bronco coming soon, you'd think we'd be watching our tongues
more carefully.  Would it be that the hellfire would cease and the
netrek world would be saved?


(Ha!)  Hardly.
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: SB vs 6 Captains
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:23:31 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Theories:

1) 6 Captains can easily Ice any SB.
2) a mondo SB can easily Ice 6 Captains

Test:

Set up 6 Captains and a SB on some server.

Problems:

Moriarty has a lot of Lag.  So does Flint.  These, were, therefore, the
obvious choices for this test.

Results:

Lag sucks.  Whoever doesn't have it wins.  Wheeee!

ZZnew guy

"I'm an Admiral, so shut up." -- Hell Peacock
From: jerryw@cs.umd.edu (Jerry Wieber)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Random non-CrackPot non-Angry statistics
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:16:31 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Jul20.123026.240241@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
-jerryw@cs.umd.edu (Jerry Wieber) writes
-> However, technology improves even as we speak.  Any modem worth its salt
-> now has V.32bis with V.42bis compression; set your DTE to 38.4 Kbps and you 
-> should be rocking.  
 
-Ah, but what is the interactive response like?  As an example,
-enabling MNP5 on a 2400 baud modem gives a "jerky" effect in
-interactive use, due to the on-the-fly compression/decompression.  Is
-this effect lessened or eliminated at higher speeds?

I would guess that you are right -- A high DTE would yield an uneven
response depending on how compressible the data happened to be.  However,
as you approach the true bandwidth of netrek, this should go away.

So how much is 5 updates/sec in terms of peak bandwidth?

-Jerry
-- 
                                                           __________ 
 UUCP:     uunet!cs.umd.edu!jerryw   SPOKEN: Jerry Wieber  |/ `-.    | U of Md
 INTERNET: jerryw@cs.umd.edu                                     \_|.|-,  
                                                                    ` - 
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:42:04 -0400 
From: Greg K Chung <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: On a lighter note

-2)  A mobile repair/refueling dock.  This one is probably a more reasonable
-addition to netrek, something along the lines of the floating repair vessels
-the navy uses.  Take an AS, reduce its troop capacity down to 6, give it the
-fuel supply and repair capabilities of an SB, and give it the ability to allow
-docking.  Also, only allow the ship to carry armies as a regular ship (one 
-army per 0.5 kills).  A ship like this would add to the strategy, perhaps
-allowing offensives to be sustained longer and to provide the extra support
-where needed (possibly in a third space offensive or in a gap where there
-are no repair or fuel planets).

This is an interesting idea, especially if you add the restriction of not
being able to orbit foreign planets  or neutral (like the SB).  Thus it would
be a ship devoid of offensive capabilities...

However, I would limit the fuel capacity to less than the 60,000! of the SB
to perhaps 30,000, and further limit mobility (say warp 6).
From: chen@ie.utoronto.ca (Chen Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: My poor iggy baby! :-)
Date: 30 Jul 1992 09:37:50 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Hi, all:

	That's it! This does it! Why is everybody picking on my favourite
Iggy Baby? :-) (There, there, are you hurt? My poor baby? ;P)

	Seriously, I used to consider Iggy a pain in the butt since I can
never kill him. Then a few month passed before I all of sudden discovered
that I can kill him *easily* with a SC. ("Come on, iggy baby, come and
catch my juicy torps.")

	Then another few month passed before I discovered there are uses
for it, like everything you guys have said.

	My favourite moment is to get to a server where everybody is
bitching about Iggy, jump into my tiny SC, kill him and brag to the world
"Iggy is a weenie."

	And, < drum roll please >, I am *not* clued. :-)

	-- Chen Wang
	   (Newbie, Cmdr on Bronco
            KillMePlease, Cmdr on rwd4)

           (Worst player in The Commanders, and proud of it! :))
    
Ps: Gotta read ZZnew guy's guide to "fake clue" a few more times and then
    claiming to the world. "Look, I have CLUE!"

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                     |
chen@ie.toronto.edu, | Please send all time bombs, pies, bugs, viruses,
                     | flames, core dumps, to me. :-)
chen@ie.utoronto.ca, |
                     |
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Doorstop address
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:36:57 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul21.224150.18634@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> amrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
)
)P.S. If you're wondering why we need the IP numbers, it's because some of
)us have systems whose /etc/hosts only include a small number of local machines,
)and so names of remote hosts are simply not defined. I suppose I'll install
)an improved version of /etc/hosts here someday, but probably not until I get
)really fed up with 'unknown host'.

Ah, but your machine *should* have a 'name server' that it queries
for hosts that are not in /etc/hosts.  The name server (which is generally
one of the backbone machines on your local net) will have a much larger
/etc/hosts, and even if the host is not listed there, it should be
smart enough to go query a name server in the domain of the machine
you're looking for (i.e., if I am looking for bronco.ece.cmu.edu, 
my local name server will ask namesever.ece.cmu.edu, or whatever, what
bronco's IP address is).

Of course, not all machines have a name server properly defined.  If yours
doesn't, you should probably talk to your sysadmins.
 -Tom
From: horde@reed.edu (Mr. Heiji Horde)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Monday's bronco bonanza (re: ... bronco bonanza)
Date: 29 Jul 92 05:33:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Twisted Genius Rehabilitation Center, a Division of MHE

In article <1992Jul29.024408.5375@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> wk5w@luca.bme.Virginia.EDU (William Thang Katz) writes:
>So how bout a netrek DREAM TEAM with the 8 most potent admirals versus
>the netrek ANGOLA TEAM featuring myself and some other captains?  Do we
>have a Kukoc among the captains?
>
>113-48 = genocide in 10 minutes?  or bigger margin of victory?

Well, gotta have some of those Team Wizard players who pulled off the
  6 minute genocide during the "reguler" INL season.

*ahem*

	-KreelScum (Flt Capt@calvin, Commander@bronco)
	 "I think we'll stick to the west coast for games."

===========================================================================
 Mr. Heiji Horde    (Non NeXT mail only please)     e-mail: horde@reed.edu
   All insane acts are done in affiliation with Madd Hacker Enterprises
        "Everything I say and do is being recorded by the FBI."
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: isae@iastate.edu (No Real Name)
Subject: Re: Doorstop address
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 08:48:19 GMT

In <josh.711754327@mowgli> josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes) writes:

>mlm@tardis.msu.edu (Michelle L. Morin) writes:

>It has its fun aspects, but the damn DD cooling rate is still
>too low. Bleah. I'm already addicted to warp 7 with no etemp.

 FYI, doorstop has been using DD cooling rate of 7 since the the first
 time most servers decided to use it. 
 Detonate "bug" is fixed (1600 circular) and no orbit trick.
 
 ps: what do people think of 1800 circular det radius?

>doctor

>--
>Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
>josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 685-2793
>Exclaimer: Hey!           Plan: Birth School Work Death

-isae@iastate.edu
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I.S.A.E.
Indonesian Society of Aerospace Engineers
Iowa State University
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Summer INL Playoffs
Date: 26 Jul 92 10:57:40 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


The Summer INL Playoffs will be held August 14th and 15th.  The
top 4 teams in the INL (determined by record and by the tie-breaking
scheme detailed in the INL Rulebook) will play a single-elimination
tournament, with the #4 team playing at the #1 team, and the #3 team
playing at the number #2 team on Friday the 14th; the winners of
those games will play for the title on Saturday the 15th.

Games should be completed by Sunday, August 9th, to give the team
captains time to schedule the playoff matches.

If your team does not desire to play in the playoffs, for whatever
reason, you may waive your position and the next highest-ranked team
will receive your slot.
 -Tom
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:31:32 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: DREAM TEAM
	<156l5vINN73d@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>

>I count 8 starters 5 subs. sheesh!  :)

Red Shirt is a mascot.

ZZnew guy
From: mr10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: You know you play too much when...
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:06:19 GMT
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp) writes:
>         ...you start considering going to grad school just so you can try
> for CMU or Berkeley.

I know. . . I could have been on Penn's INL team next year, if the
University of Florida weren't so cool :-)

Wesley
Arrogant Asshole.  We are better than you :-)

>                                           Ray Jones
Lestrade	lestrade+@cmu.edu	mr10+@andrew.cmu.edu
	"Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness."
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: Re: ogging carriers
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:00:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.140509@IASTATE.EDU>, btd@IASTATE.EDU (Benjamin T Dehner) writes:
|> 	When playing on a team that doesn't have a lot of clue/isn't very
|> well organized, is it a good idea to ogg the opponent carriers?  I'm not
|> real great at ogging, and usually end up running out of fuel or getting blown
|> up by escorts whenever I try chasing down a carrier by myself.  Should I keep
|> trying, or wait untill I can get help, or just keep an eye on him (or her)
|> until they go for a planet?

IMHO, when playing on a team that is not well organized or doesn't have clue, the
best thing to do, for your team, is bomb. I don't think ogging carriers 
continuously will do much as your fellows are probably giving away kills
faster than you can count. If they don't have armies, they can't use 'em. Taking
planets is a good idea too since you will hopefully, at least, negate the planets
they are taking. If you have two decent people on a team taking care of these
two tasks you can at least put up a good fight. 

Otherwise, tell your teammates who is carrying and go where they go. Hopefully
you will have some enthusiastic newbies on your team who are reading and trying.
They will usually follow. 

If your team doesn't bother to defend the agri you just took and is at 1, or they
don't seem to be reading, or they are doing a random walk over the galactic map,
it's time to give up the ghost. Either:

1) GPick up two kills, get plasma and get ready for LPS, forcing the enemy to 
'choose' the homeworld or some nearby agri.

2) Get two kills, get plasma, and go kill-scumming. Find ensign Newbie (guy with
.37 ratio) and FORCEABLY instruct him in dogfighting. Or blow-up whomever
you can. 

3) Leave

1 & 2 can be a blast sometimes. 

|> 	Also, I seem to have noticed I'm best at avoiding oggs when I have lots
|> of kills but am not carrying any armies.  Guess the extra weight from the
|> armies
|> messes up your maneuverability :(.

Is this true? I didn't know 'weight' was a consideration in anything. After all,
a scout can tow a starbase....

|> 
|> Cthulhu
|> 
|> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Benjamin T. Dehner          Department of Physics and Astronomy 
|> btd@iastate.edu             Iowa State University 
|>                             Ames, IA 50011
|> 

Paul

Icarus
Big Nifty Balls
Oral Annie
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: U Can't Teach an Olden Bear New tricks
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:36:06 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Duck Dodgers writes:
> 
> Yeah!!
> 
> It's true.. you can't teach an Olden Bear new tricks.
> Last Night's game of the Ogglies vs Golden Bears 
> reminded me of the times when some of GB's members
> would screw with players machines because
> they were losing or they couldn't hang with 
> the skill level. Mojo's been desperately trying
> to teach his team how to ogg and play but
> from what I have seen all of their effort 
> became futile when during a lps of the game
> last night ... one of the GB's flooded the
> processes of all the Ogglies machines. Well..
> I don't wanna speculate on who it was but
> I have my suspicions. 
> [..rest deleted...]
> Duck Dodgers

Wow, thats pretty low.  I have noticed that the bear's have not made much  
of an attempt to adjust to the game.  Mojo has been quite effective, but  
other than that, I haven't seen one of them do much of the things that are  
required to win.  For example, Hell Peacock still takes out a destroyer  
and tries to dogfight a kill and take planets.  If he is in the game with  
me, i wait for him to pick up then ogg him in a scout.  I'd say he dies  
about 90% of the time.  Scum has the same problem, except I find that he  
is not as easy to ogg because he runs.  Do they scout bomb as a team?  Do  
they want to win, or would they rather dogfight themselves to death?   
Mojo, i'm more interested in your opinion, what is up with your team?  You  
certainly have the ability, why aren't you dominating?

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: haefner@IASTATE.EDU (Ralph I Haefner)
Subject: Re: Stats from Clueful Games Wednesday Evening
Reply-To: haefner@IASTATE.EDU (Ralph I Haefner)
Organization: Iowa State University
Distribution: world,local
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:42:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.162543@IASTATE.EDU>, haefner@IASTATE.EDU (Ralph I Haefner)
writes:
> In article <1992Jul16.131412.3487@arizona.edu>,
nelson@hep8.physics.arizona.edu
> (Jeff Nelson) writes:
> > Please respond via e-mail if you can read this, I don't believe the
> newsposter
> > is working at this site for r.g.n.
> > 
> > In article <1992Jul16.161251.24734@dsd.es.com>, mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com
> (Michael Moore) writes:
> > |> In article <oeNHXh_00aw3Q971AN@andrew.cmu.edu> Greg K Chung
> <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> > |> >
> > |> >            .....     Roms lacked space control and ogging, and it
> appeared
> > |> >that all we could do was run (not chase) from those damn scouts!  Esp. 
> > |> >Red Shirt...ARGH! :)
> > |> >
> > |> 
> > |> 	Man, their scouts ripped us apart!  Especially at the end, I
> > |> swear we lost 10 armies to them in the last 10 minutes...  Redshirt
> > |> and Mergatroid were the scout bombers I remember cursing the most.  ....
> > 
> > There has been quite a bit of discussion on which ship is the best dog
> fighting
> > ship, CR or BB (and somtimes the lunatic DD).  I seriously now believe that
> an
> > excellent scout can take out anything else with no problem 1-1.  If the
scout
> > keeps it's distance, remaining out of tractor and effective phaser range,
it
> > will be able to dodge all torps without a problem and meanwhile feed its
> > opponent 10 tiny warp 16 torps (BOOM!!).  The only problem is energy, which
> > is the bane of all dogfighters.  Once out of energy, the scout is in deep
> sh*t.
> > The small supply given means the scout can take out at most two opponents
> > before some major refueling.
> > 
> > Note that the robot Artificial Idiot has implemented scouts as a
dogfighting
> > ship and they have proven to be one of the best, if not THE best,
dogfighters
> > I have ever seen.
> > 
> > So, to sum up, scouts dogfight well, light bomb well, and take well.
> > 
> > Maybe we should weaken the scout....
> > 
> > 					- Jeff
> > 
> One thing I in my cluelessness have noticed is that scouts fare very badly 
> in large fleet battles, like near the front, but can do ok in fights when it
> is 1 on 1 or 2 on 2.  Of course, I'm from ISU so all you coastal netrek gods
> are free to flame at will now.
> 
> Lt. Cmdr.  Tal  (T-bird)
> 
> Mikhail Tal (1938-1992), World Chess Champion, 1960-61,  R.I.P.

If anyone really cares, I got Tal's birthdate wrong, it was 1936, not 1938.

Cmdr. Tal (yay, a promotion)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mmoore@dsd.es.com (Mike Moore)
Subject: Sad Days
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:50:07 GMT


	Well, seems like all at once everyone around me is quiting
netrek.... spending their time on more usefull things like Phd 
dissertations....

	All I want to know is, is this a phase?  Or is netrek purporting
its own demise through excessive addiction to the point where the 
injured party has no other course but to go "cold turkey", and leave
us other folks sniffing and waving goodbye?

	Maybe we should limit the # of hours a person can play per
day, to avoid this deep tragedy....

	-Michael  (Ged... seeing so many friends leaving the netrek
                   universe... the only life he knows....  	:-) )



-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Moore                      \  "All men are touched by God's  |
|Evans & Sutherland Employee         \  flaming love."                |
|University of Utah Student          /                                |
|Email      : mmoore@dsd.es.com     /                                 |
|Home Phone : (801) 359-6552        \                                 |
|Office     : (801) 582-5847 x 4721  \    -ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen |
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