From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: The Station of The Bab (Re: A Refutation of Baha'i view....) 9/10
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 28 JAN 93 10:14:55    


Continuation from part 8:

HS>He would usually repent and renounce his claim (4). 

Item (4) in your rather lengthy reference list offers the following:

HS>(4)* Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, p. 138;
HS>    Rowdat-ul-Safe Nasiri of Mirza Reza Quli Khan, vol. 10, p.311, 423;
HS>    Naqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 133;
HS>   * Kashf-ul-Gheta'a (The removal of curtains), pp. 202-204;
HS>   * Qarne Badi'a by Showqi Afandi, Amri Pub., vol. 1, p. 423;
HS>    Inshe'ab dar Baha'iat, pp.  70-74.

I'd like to respectfully recommend that you STUDY the references which
you have offered above specially the ones I have placed "*" next to them.

I will examine your first reference in order to demonstrate your mistake.

Before I get to discussing your misunderstanding of this subject based
on the examination of "pages 136-138 of "Talkheese Tareekhe Nabeele 
Zarandee", please allow me to offer some background on this issue
from INDEPENDENT [i.e. non-Baha'i] sources in order to leave some
room for judgment for the readership of soc.religion.islam:

"This city [i.e. Shiraz] became the arena for passionate discussions 
which profoundly troubled the general peace. The curious, the pilgrims, 
the scandal mongers met there commenting upon the news [i.e. Declaration
of The Bab in Mecca], approving or blaming, exalting the young Siyyid 
[i.e. The Bab], or, on the contrary, heaping upon him maledictions and 
insults. Everyone was excited and enervated. The Mullas saw with bitter
anxiety the growing number of adherents to the new doctrine and their
resources diminished correspondingly. It became necessary to act, as 
prolonged tolerance would empty the Mosques of their believers who were
convinced that since Islam did not defend itself, it acknowledged defeat.
On the other hand Husayn Khan, governor of Shiraz, Nizamu'd-Dawlih, feared
that, in letting things drift, the scandal would become such that later
it would be impossible to suppress it; that would be to court disgrace.
Besides, the Bab did not content himself with preaching, he called to
himself men of good-will. `He who knows the Word of God [This is a title
for the Messenger of God, which Jesus is referred to by as well.] and
does not come to His assistance in the days of violence is exactly like 
those who turned away from the testimony of his holiness Husayn, son of
Ali, at Karbila. Those are the impious ones!' (Ketab-i Baynu'l Haramayn.)
The civil interests concurring with the interests of heaven, Nizam'd-Dawlih 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and Shaykh Abu-Turab, the Imam Jum'ih agreed that humiliation should be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
inflicted upon the inventor [i.e. The Bab] such as would discredit him in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the eyes of the populace; perhaps thus they might succeed in quitting 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
things."
        A.L.M Nicolas, `Siyyid Ali-Muhammad dit le Bab.' pp 229-230

Now, let me quote for you from pages 136-138 of Tarikh-i Nabeele Zarandi. 
The English translation of this work appears in pages 153-154 of what is 
called "Nabil's Narrative" or "Dawn Breakers", the extracts from which I 
will present here:

"The Bab straigthtway resumed His journey to Shiraz. Free and unfettered, 
He went before His escort, which followed Him in an attitude of respectful
devotion. By the magic of His words, He disarmed the hostility of His guards 
and transmuted their proud arrogance into humility and love. Reaching the 
city, [i.e. Shiraz] they proceeded directly to the seat of the government.
Whosoever observed the cavalcade marching through the streets could not
help but marvel at this most unusual spectacle. Immediately Husayn Khan
was informed of the arrival of the Bab, he summoned Him to his presence.
He received Him with the utmost insolence and bade Him occupy a seat facing
him in the center of the room. He publicly rebuked Him, and in abusive
language denounced His conduct `Do you realize,' he angrily protested,
`what a great mischief you have kindled? Are you aware what a disgrace 
you have become to the holy Faith of Islam and to the august person of 
our sovereign? Are you not the man who claims to be the author of a new
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
revelation which annuls the sacred precepts of the Qur'an?' The Bab calmly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
replied: `If any bad man come unto you with news, clear up the matter at
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
once, lest through ignorance ye harm others, and be speedily constrained
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
to repent of what ye have done.' [Qur'an 49:6] These words inflamed the 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
wrath of Husayn Khan. `What!' he exclaimed. `Dare you ascribe to us evil, 
ignorance and folly?' Turning to his attendant, he bade him strike the 
Bab in the face. So violent was the blow, that the Bab's turban fell to
the ground. Shaykh Abu-Torab, the Imam Jum'ih of Shiraz, who was present
at the meeting and who strongly disapproved of the conduct of Husayn
Khan, ordered that the Bab's turban be replaced upon His head, and invited 
Him to be seated by his side. Turning to the governor, the Imam Jum'ih 
explained to his the circumstances connected with the revelation of the
verse of the Qur'an which the Bab had quoted, and sought by this means 
to calm his fury. `This verse which this youth has quoted,' he told him,
`has made  a profound impression upon me. The wise course, I feel, is
to inquire into this matter with great care, and to judge him according
to the precepts of the holy Book [i.e. Qur'an]' Husayn Khan readily
consented; whereupon Shaykh Abu-Torab questioned the Bab regarding the
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nature and character of His Revelation. The Bab denied the claim of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
being either the representative of the promised Qa'im or the intermediary
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
between Him and the faithful. `We are completely satisfied,' replied the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Imam Jum'ih; `we shall request you to present yourself on Friday in the
Masjid-i Vakil, and to proclaim publicly your denial.'" [pp. 150-151]

"The Bab, accompanied by Haji Mirza Siyyid Ali, arrived at the Masjid at a 
time  when the Imam Jum'ih  had just ascended the pulpit  and was preparing 
to deliver his sermon. As soon as his eyes fell upon the Bab, he publicly
welcomed Him, requested Him to ascend the pulpit, and called upon Him to
address the congregation. The Bab responding to his invitation, advanced 
towards him and, standing on the first step of the staircase, prepared to
address the people. `Come up higher,' interjected the Imam Jum'ih. Complying
with his wish, the Bab ascended two more steps. As He was standing, His 
head hid the breast of Shaykh Abu-Torab, who was occupying the pulpit-top.
He began by prefacing His public declaration with an introductory discourse.
No sooner had He uttered the opening words of `Praise be to God, who hath
in truth created the heavens and the earth,' than a certain siyyid known 
as Siyyid-i-Shish-Pari, whose function was to carry the mace before the 
Imam Jum'ih, insolently shouted: `Enough of this idle chatter! Declare,
now and immediately, the thing you intend to say.' The Imam Jum'ih greatly
resented the rudeness of the siyyid's remark. `Hold your peace,' he rebuked 
him, `and be ashamed of you impertinence.' He then, turning to the Bab,
asked Him to be brief, as this, he said, would allay the excitement of the
people. The Bab as He faced the congregation, declared: `The condemnation 
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of God be upon him who regards me either as a representative of the Imam
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[i.e. of the 12th Imam] or the gate thereof. The condemnation of God also
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
upon whosoever imputes to me the charge of having denied the unity of God,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of having repudiated the prophethood of Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of having rejected the truth of any of the messengers of old, or of having
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
refused to recognise the guardianship of Ali, the Commander of the Faithful,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
or of any of the imams who have succeeded him.' He then ascended to the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
top of the staircase, embraced the Imam Jum'ih, and descending to the floor 
of the Masjid, joined the congregation for the observation of the Friday
prayer. The Imam Jum'ih intervened and requested Him to retire. `Your family,'
he said, `is anxiously awaiting your return. All are apprehensive lest any 
harm befall you. Repair to your house and there offer your prayer, of
greater merit shall this deed be in the sight of God.'"

                        	The Dawn Breakers, pp. 153-154

The question presented to The Bab by the governor of Shiraz and the kind 
of answer he received from The Bab demonstrates The Bab's mindfulness of 
the situation and His fearlessness of the authorities. Furthermore, the 
gist of the exchange between The Bab and Imam Jum'ih is that The Bab 
DENIED people's understanding about Him and about of the nature of His 
Mission. That is to say: He denied to be "either the representative of 
the promised Qa'im or the intermediary between Him and the faithful.",
since He was the Qa'im/Mihdi, as I have proven by the verses of the Book
of Qayyum'ul-Asma' whose revelation was completed several months prior
to this event. Please note that in this exchange He DID NOT by any means 
deny that He is the Qa'im, He just did not DIRECTLY ANSWER who He really 
is. 

I hope this offers you a fresh perspective on this issue.

						Part 9 of 10
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.messianic