HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: Wing Chung and the privy
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:31:26 GMT

In article <25641@dog.ee.lbl.gov> TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>
>  +>But it is a general attitude in many martial arts that certain types
>  +>of info is reserved for people in the art itself. [...] Whether it is
>  +>anything from a technique, to a theory on how you should pick your nose.
>
>robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
>
>  +Ah, so we finally get to the bottom of the Sticky Hands controversy...
>
>Well, no need to be so snotty about it.

	I think that comment was a bit tacky.

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: taltos@nevada.edu (dml)
Subject: Fencing
Originator: taltos@helios.nevada.edu
Organization: Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:31:50 GMT

  Is this the appropriate newsgroup for fencing? If not, where?

                                          taltos@helios.nevada.edu 


-- 


  The Nevada Test Site: Better bombs for a better tomorrow.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: re: Shaolin Temple news.
Date: 18 Aug 92 03:44:47 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <9208172140.AA10170@adelphi-assb01.army.mil> @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01 writes:
>
>        Here's something that some monks (those who specialize in it) can
>do that is definitely not wushu.  There's a skill they can pull logs and 
>lift rocks with their, <warning painful to male readers> testicles.  The

That must be why they're monks ;-). Welcome back, Fo...

Steve
From: sv6f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Steven  Velasquez)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Kobudo Tapes
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:20:43 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Does anyone know of any video tapes of the kobudo associated with
Shorei-Kan Goju-ryu?  I know that there are many tapes on Okinawan
kobudo especially the forms/kumites for Shorin-ryu, but I haven't
come across anything associated with the Goju system.  Any help
would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance,

Steven Velasquez
University of Virginia
Dept. of Physics
Velas@virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Last Comment on Christians
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:14:26 GMT


...in this forum.

Let's see: I have received exactly 3 mail messages concerning my statements
relative to Stephen Northcutt's original post--2 against my "flamage" and
1 neutral.  

My point is that I never offer my religious convictions up to anyone unless
they ask.  I find the "Christian approach" of "assume you know the answer and
cram it down everyone else's throat in the guise of 'Love'" is presumptuous
and patently obnoxious.  I am not blaming Stephen for this.  It is not their
faults... "they know not what they do."

It was this notion of the supremacy of the Christian ideology that led to the
Christian genocide of the Native Americans.  It is this presumption that makes
us an obnoxious neighbor to most of the world's cultures--the persistent,
unrepentant notion of correctness.  I do not hold Christians solely
responsible for this attitude.  Fundamentalist moslems are no less
obnoxious--believe me.  

Anyway, my point is not so much to deride Christians at all, but to get *some
of them* to quit slathering me in their rhetoric.  My post was a response, not
an act of aggression (think about where this applies!).
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Hips in aikido
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:57:00 GMT

In <3464@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

>In article <1811@celia.UUCP> celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
>> In koshi nage, the nage still leads with the hips.

>	Yes, BUT :-) they don't use their hips as a fulcrum the way we
>do in judo.  I'm talking about actually rolling or pulling uke over the
>hip.  They may always lead with their hips, but they end up with what
>we in judo would call a hand technique.  And I submit that because they
>always expect that kind of obvious lead they feel safe if they don't get
>it, and forget that a throw can be accomplished with leverage as well as by
>extending ki :-)

Well, keeping in mind that my particular dojo may be somewhat
"contaminated" (our instructor also has a BB degree in Judo), I'd like
to disagree somewhat with this.  We have two classes of koshi nage,
one class is as you describe above, but the other class definitely
uses the hip as a fulcrum.  It depends on how you enter, the former
tends to have the hips at right angles to each other, in the latter
the hips are parallel (and thus may be used as a fulcrum).  You might
argue that these are Aikido- and Judo- style koshi nages, but I have
seen examples of both kinds done by traditional Aikidoists (including
Saito Sensei).

>	Here's a question: Your opponent enters strongly so that the
>left side of his chest is touching the right side of yours.  Your
>hips are parallel and may also be touching.  Your posture and balance
>remain strong, centered, and unbroken.  Do you feel safe?  Why or why
>not?

Some of this depends on what the opponent has been trained in!  I'm
assuming that nage and uke are facing the same way, BTW.  I would not
feel safe if a judoka did this AT ALL.  If an aikidoist were doing
this, it depends.  If the opponent's hips are below mine, I would not
feel safe (that's the fulcrum, right there).  If the hips aren't, I'd
step back, pulling the oppponent down and out with me.

--Cindy
--
Cindy Tittle Moore       "For a beginner, there are about 100 stages of the
                          technique.  A talented beginner can expect a 90%
UCI Aikido Club           chance of success for each stage, and therefore a
Crawford Hall             (.9)^100 ~= 0 chance of success in performing the
University of California  technique properly."    -- Chris L. Kuszmaul
Irvine, CA 92717
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seeking Feedback (was Re: Shotokan misconceptions)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:56:19 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

sbs@fns-nc1.fns.com (Syd B. Seifert) writes:
>
>What were some of the basic principles from my old dojo?
>	1.  Maintain your balance

     A pretty obvious one.

>	2.  Never stand still or move backwards; move towards the "light"

     Hmmm. Never say "never". If jumping back gets me away from a technique
that's about to do me serious bodily injury, I'm jumping back. Often,
sidestepping or moving in and blocking are appropriate, but sometimes moving
backwards is too. And standing still has its uses too.

>	3.  Never expose your blood supply

     Not sure I understand this one...

>	4.  Always respect other humans

     Good idea! (It's also good to respect other animals, but that's a
topic for another newsgroup.)

>	5.  When a person physically, mentally, or emotionally abuses
>		you or another person, they cease to be human and
>		are an object  (chill)

     This, I don't agree with. They're still human beings - broken, damaged
human beings, that present a threat to others, but still human beings. The
hope is maintained that their threat can be stopped and that these "broken"
individuals can be "repaired". Remember that many if not most abusers were
abused themselves.

>	6.  Be able to leave a battle without bruises, scratches,
>		or other injury (this means also not to develop calluses)

     If I ever leave a class during which we did kumite, and don't have
at least a few sore spots, I'll be dissappointed. B->
>
>SOOO - my confusion lies here:  I do not understand the point of learning
>inefficient or ineffective moves, katas, forms, blocks, rituals (answer
>"yes sir" loudly and count loudly to show confidence (?!!)).  The 
>inconsistencies and non-sense of the moves has made it impossible for me to 
>get much out of the instruction.  What am I missing here?
>What do "pure" forms of M.A. have to offer that justify teaching
>"impure" moves (those that may be inconsistent with their own philosophies
>or with those that just plain make sense).  I welcome ideas and feedback!

     Moves that in and of themselves are not effective may somehow lay the
groundwork for other, effective moves. Straight-leg front and side kicks
are pretty useless, combat-wise, but are good for developing flexibility.
Katas and forms are steps along the way from single techniques to
kumite; they are also good mental discipline. Rituals are (ususally) just
part of the etiquette of the dojo, often inherited from other cultures so
that it seems strange to us.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
      "An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it."
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: An Aikido Question (...what else!)
Date: 21 Aug 1992 20:24:30 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <7884@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou) writes:
>How safe is it for an aikidoka or t'ai chi player to throw a punch?

Punches are an extensive and integral part of the T'ai Chi curriculum.  T'ai
Chi training for martial application will include bag work.  If it isn't safe
for a particular T'ai Chi player to throw a punch, it probably isn't much
safer for them to attempt some other technique.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:30:10 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>It will be 100% permissable to have homosexuals in the dojang 

	ghu, the great, says that he doesn't care who ya sleeps with so
long as ya don't ride no Japanese bikes, and that's good enough for me...

	Do you really only let heterosexual Christians study at your
dojo, Stephen?  One of my first judo instructors was a gay black man. Taught
me everything I know about harai-goshi...  

	Cleave to any personal superstitions that you need to, but I'd rather
laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.  The sinners are much more
fun.

>"traditional" values are fading fast.  

	Good.  If traditional values never faded we'd all be crouching
in front of caves celebrating our execution of the man who'd committed the
un-traditional act of cooking his food.
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:00:07 GMT
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Books (was Re: Tai Chi)

chan_ed@wro2v3.enet.dec.com () writes:

>Asian Fighting Arts by Don Draeger and Robert W. Smith is an excellent book 
>that describes the major Asian, as well as Western martial arts and their 
>histories.

Well, it's a book, certainly, but I wouldn't say it's an excellent one (but
of course, there are heaps of worse ones around, written by a renouned masters
aged about 30, who (a) never left his home town in the UK (or US), or (b) are
pushing a particular style as the ultimate. [Has Kahn ever thought of writing
a book?].

Maybe it's time for a list of bad books on MA...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:20:13 GMT

I don't have much to say, and I doubt everyone has been waiting with
baited breath to learn my opinion, but I figured I'd post my reaction
just to "show the flag."

There's a difference between neo-nazis and gays.  The neo-nazis attack
others, the gays don't.  Now if the gay also happens to be a butthead,
well...

By the way, we have both fundamentalist christians and gays in our
dojang, and (Thank God!) they get along just fine.  

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:31:23 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

In article <willimsa.714323348@unix1.tcd.ie>, willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie 
  (Gavin Williams) writes:
> I saw a photo of Bush in some martial arts seminar.
> 
> He was wearing a gi with a black belt.
> 
> I thought a black belt was something that was EARNED after years of sweat and 
> toil.  Guess I was wrong.  This must mean that anyone can wear it.
> 
 
Not that this matters much, but the scene described above (may be too intense
for children, parental discretion advised) was a photo-op / campaign booster
for the President. The Black Belt Thing (not to be confused with the
Vision Thing) was done by Chuck Norris (!) and featured kids breaking
boards. Saw a clip of this on the news.

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
"You just shot an unarmed man."
"He shoulda armed himself"     _The Unforgiven_
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:50:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA


Stephen, you clearly believe that atheists are enemies
of something you value. You believe that homosexuality is wrong.
I am, by many people's definitions, an atheist, and I
don't believe there is anything wrong with homosexuality.

I do think that there is something wrong with characterizing
your relationship with other people as combat simply because
they disagree with they way you think the world works. I
think there is something wrong with trying to interfere
with what happens between consenting adults. 

In article <1992Aug12.113042.25326@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>
>Before you jump to your keyboard to royally flame me, and rise to
>the defense of homosexuality, think carefully about the side you
>are choosing.  You want to talk about flaming, these folk in Sodom
>really got FLAMED!

I have thought about 'sides' and about my relation to other 
human beings. I have thought about what knowledge is, and
about errors and tragedies that have arisen in the past
out of people's belief in what they take to be right.
I don't believe it is up to me, or you, or anyone
else, to pass judgment on what two people consent to do
with each other for their mutual pleasure. 

I don't look to the Bible to tell me what is right, and
references to the story of Sodom carry no weight with me
as a persuasive device. I would hope that you can find a way
to reach people with the love that you believe God embodies,
and not with the hatred reflected in an intolerance of
diversity.

>SUMMATION (finally):
>It should not be hard to realize that "traditional" values are fading
>fast.  Family values are being tossed around by both political parties
>and in such a way that it is a mockery.  I just found out by accident that
>there is/was a hot thread in misc.kids about how to let your kids grow
>up accepting witches, ARRRRGG.  The word I use for what is going on in
>usenet and the world is apostasy, and this is a *BAD* thing. 

You make it clear that you would prefer that people not
accept certain other people's religious beliefs. No doubt
this is because you are sure that your beliefs are right.
Consider, however, that many people before you have been
sure they were right, and many of them have done very bad 
things because of it. Indeed, the history of your own
religion provides numerous examples of people who have
suffered and died at the hands of people who believed they
were protecting what was right.

If your beliefs are right then we will all know it in due course.
In the meantime, for the sake of those who, like me, cannot believe
that those beliefs are right, let us agree to disagree, and
work for what we can agree upon, and let us try to find ways
to share the world peacefully with those who differ from
us.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Kyle II
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:07:12 GMT

kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) says:
Subject: Re: What is Sticky Hands (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)


>	Well, Marty, you might be a good example of "I believe everything
>I'm told".

Hardly.  I shopped around before I came to this organization, and I
had heard about this conflict long before I was even interested in
Wing Chun.
I've had the opportunity to meet with some other people inside
Cheung's circle and outside (who do not wish to be mentioned), and
have had it satisfactorily proven.

>Perhaps a course in elementary logic would be in order.  William
>Cheung claims that he knows "classical" wing chun and nobody else does.  He
>beats some other wing chun people.  How exactly are the two related?  The
>existance of the second does not prove the first all by itself.

Perhaps a course in elementary Wing Chun theory is in order.
Wing Chun, dealing with chi/force of an opponent, relies more
on the good structure, rather than the individual itself.
It's not a game of tag.  That's why size/strength/etc
does not matter much, as proven by Yip Man himself.
Based on this, Cheungs challenge was based on the weakness
in the persons structure and his ability to take advantage of
this thru the stronger structure of classical Wing Chun.
This is how the two are related.

>William Cheung and Leung Ting are a couple of the bigger scams in
>Wing Chun.

I think your pitiful attitude is one of the reasons for the dissent
and political problems within the Wing Chun Familly.  Both are good
men and good fighters as are many of the people in Wing Chun.
There was no need to turn this into an insult post, regardless of
whether either one of us believes in what either one of them do.
Especially when neither one is here to defend themselves.
And frankly, for someone who uses such weighty words I don't recall ever
seeing YOUR name mentioned highly in the Wing Chun familly. Let's just
leave it at that.
This is turning into flame territory of which I have no desire
to be a part of.  If you feel the need, then take it up
in email with me.

>- Kyle

>-- 
>+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
>|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
>| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
>| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |

Marty

Do
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ken tori - Aikido
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:10:35 GMT
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

In article <1992Aug11.195753.20997@col.hp.com> gee@col.hp.com (Ken Gee) writes:

>        I just got back from the Rocky Mountain Aikido Summer Camp.  Saotome
>Sensei taught two Iado defenses against a yokomen attack with ken.  
                   ^^^^
Is this supposed to be iaido?  Or iado?

>Both 
>involved entering irimi low under the incoming yokomen.  With the yokomen 
>directed at the left side of my neck, I step forward with my left foot under
                                 ^^^^
>the blade.  After it has passed, I step with my right foot and straighten up
>as I draw my sword with my left hand and guide the cut through his right side
>with my right hand.  This is the same technique Mifune used in the final duel
>scene in 'Sanjuro.'

It seems to me that yoko_MEN_ is being incorrectly performed or named
here.  yokomen in Muso Shinden Ryu is _always_ to the temple, not to
the neck.

>        Ikeda Sensei uses the irimi entry underneath a yokomen attack quite
>often.  It isn't the direction your instincts tell you to go, but he is quite
>effective at it.  You must enter deeply and early.  Since it is often hard to
>tell the difference between a shomen attack and a yokomen attack in the early
>stages, entering deeply prevents you from being cut by either attack.

It should prbably be noted that jodan no kamae (the combative posture
that one starts from to initiate men or yokomen) is almost never used
on an unarmed opponent.  Jodan is very good against horse mounted
opponents though.  The prefered kamae against an opponent with a sword
(sheathed or otherwise) would be chudan no kamae or seigan no kamae
(this from Muso Shinden or Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto, possibly
others).  Both of these are mid-level sword positions, much like the
opening of and kendo match.  To be very safe, one could use a gedan no
kamae or a waki kamae (low positions, difficult to attack when foot to
foot duels are fought).  Or in the extreme, one could preform a batto
in the kesa position (a cut made from the draw, diagonally upwards).

But it should be said, there is a counter for every technique.
Knowing how to recognize what is happening and act on it is the key.

--
...ignoring the fact that most Alfas spend their time cruising for
chicks, most Datsuns being washed and most Porsches in parking spaces
marked "Doctor"...              -Henry N. Manney III, Road and Track
Al Bowers                                 bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
From: ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: "Can't be thrown"
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:40:30 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote:
: 
: 	Aikido has certain gaping holes.  For one thing, they don't study
: the case where your opponent is in actual full-body contact, as in a 
: judo technique.

hmm. maybe. certainly one of the ways we do koshinage involves full-
body contact, but we don't start from a full-body contact attack that
much. we do practice trying for some of the wrist controls from a bear
hug from behind. it would indeed be tough to do formal Aikido technique
if bear-hugged from the front; we use strikes or nerve techniques from
there.

: They never ever use their feet for anything except standing
: and walking.

depends on where you train. I went to a seminar with Roger Jarrett
of WVa a month ago, and he was teaching sweeps as part of a defense
again kicks. not part of most Aikido curricula, but since Roger
has dan ranking in judo, he likes to bring that kind of stuff in.

: They seem convinced that they can softly roll out of everything.
: 									wr

well, I've certainly never felt that! many's the time I've had the
breath knocked out of me when I mis-timed my break fall out of koshinage,
or when Toyoda sensei is working irimi-nage. (I think he's seen too many
Seagal films.)



--
Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu)
Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory
Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC  27710   (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Getsumei no michi
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:29:33 GMT


has anyone heard of the phrase "Getsumei no michi"?

(i think "michi" means "the way"). no clues/ideas on "getsumei", though.

-mukund
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts