HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moody@e4.ius.cs.cmu.edu (James Moody)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: belts wearing out
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:56:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0r8ML.4JL.2
Reply-To: moody@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: CMU Vision and Autonomous Systems Center

Six months have passed, so it's time to replace the belts again....

I have a 1988 Caravan with the V-6 engine, and the serpentine belt seems 
to begin screeching about every 6 months.  It starts out as a squeal, then
settles down to a chirp-chirp-chirp.  Over a period of a few weeks it just
keeps getting worse.  It's especially bad on days with a heavy dew.

The first few times I had the dealer replace the belts, then a few times
with my favorite mechanic. Finally, the last time I did the job myself, 
saved a few bucks and got a breaker bar, to boot.

It seems to me that the belt should last a heck of a lot longer than 6 
months.  Both the dealer and my mechanic claim the pulleys are alligned 
properly.  There is no tensioning adjustment to diddle with since the 
system employs a dynamic tensioner (spring-loaded pulley), hence the 
breaker bar.  I cleaned the pulleys well the last time the belts were 
replaced, but they really don't get that dirty to begin with.  It's not 
like my engine is spewing oil through the gaskets all over everything.

At least three different brands of belts have been used, so I don't think
the problem is the belt itself.

Both the dealer and my mechanic claim that serpentine belts do wear out 
faster than other belts, but I've never noticed other cars making this
noise.

Any comments or suggestions?

-- 
James E. Moody Jr.	The Robotics Institute		(412) 268-2847
			Carnegie Mellon (University)	      CMU-BUGS
			Schenley Park
moody@cs.cmu.edu	Pittsburgh, PA 15213
From: squigg@gssec.bt.co.uk (Stephen Quigg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Taurus #1 in US
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:19:44 GMT
Organization: BT Glasgow Systems and Software Engineering Centre, Scotland.

In article <1993Jan8.055151.1810@julian.uwo.ca>, morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:
|> In article <1ihrg7INN5th@agate.berkeley.edu> neff@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Robert Neff) writes:
|> >In article <buck.726418367@granite> buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:
|> >>dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
|> >>>According to last year's sales figures, Taurus edged out the Accord as 
|> >>>the US's top-selling car model, and Ford wasted no time in giving itself
|> >>
|> >>all this stuff about "who sold the most" is kind of irrelevant anyway.
|> .........(more deleted)
|> >I would tend to agree, that in Ford's case, the motivation was to be
|> >able to brag about the best selling car in America for 1992 in their
|> >1993 advertising, as well
|> >as market share and over-supply reasons.  The end of year promotions
|> >cost them something like $2500/car.  Sounds like it was a good time
|> >to buy one.
|> 
|> -- Brent
|> morton@artifis.gaul.csd.uwo.ca

-- 

	If you got such a good deal on the Taurus , this will surely be
reflected in the very poor residual value of the car , so you'll probably lose
money in the long term , and If you just paid the full price for the Taurus ,
then you'll find the value of your car has dropped as well ...... so nice one
Ford for shafting all your loyal customers in one fell swoop ......

Stephen Quigg
squigg@gssec.bt.co.uk 
British Telecom , Group Software Engineering and Development
(Disclaimer : I once met a lawyer in a pub .... )
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: GEICO's Laser Guns
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:29:04 GMT

hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:

> The current issue of Car&Driver says that GEICO (an insurance company)
> went to the rescue of a nearly bankrupt laser gun company.  In exchange,
> GEICO gets many laser guns a year at cost and gives them to police depts
> for FREE.  The only stipulation is that the police use them.
>
> Cash-poor municipalities are earger to comply.  One boasted of earning
> about $140,000 last year from their GEICO-donated laser guns.
>
> The payoff for GEICO, besides the stock deals, is that if a GEICO-insured
> motorist is caught, GEICO will hike that person's premiums.  The rate
> hikes vary but the scariest one is for doing more than 20mph over - 62%!
> That's right - SIXTY-TWO percent!  It sure won't take many of GEICO's
> 4 million policy holders getting caught to payback the cost of those laser
> guns.
>
> First bans on radar detectors and now free laser guns.  Boy, am I glad
> my Dad dropped GEICO over 20 years ago.

It seems to me that it is quite a conflict of interest for an insurance
company to do something like that.  It's almost as if GEICO is out there
themselves handing out tickets.  It's not that they have interest in a
company that happens to make laser speed guns, because they are in the
business of owning businesses and investing, but it is the fact that they
seemingly rescued a failing company that happens to make a product that
can earn them even more revenue in a very tricky way.  Handing out laser
speed guns for free under the guise of safety!?!  Come on, just who do
they think they're kidding?!?  That's damn close to illegal, if you ask
me (but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV).

When I first went shopping for insurance a year ago, I checked out GEICO's
rates because I kept getting stuff in the mail from engineering societies
I belong to.  I received pretty good rates, but I was somewhat turned off
by clauses like the one that said that my insurance would be canceled if
they somehow found out I use a radar detector (I don't anyway, but it
pissed me off just the same).  I shopped around some more and eventually
ended up going with USAA, a company I'm happy with so far and whose rates
were about the same as GEICO's.  YMMV.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,alt.autos.antique
From: hackney@moxie.hou.tx.us (Greg Hackney)
Subject: Corvette Mailing List is Available
Organization: Home
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:51:22 GMT


A Corvette emailing list was created in March, 1992 for the
purpose of talking about anything about the Vette, America's
sports car.

There are currently 107 members representing 95 Corvettes. 1,819
email messages were posted in 1992.

If you're a Vette enthusiast, and interested in joining, send an
email request to:

             vette-request@compaq.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos,ca.driving
From: dknight@elm.sdd.trw.com (David B. Knight)
Subject: '93 BMW 325is lease
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:09:51 GMT

I am about to lease a '93 BMW 325is with the sports package, on-board 
computer, and CD options.  The best price I've been able to get is 
for a 42 month lease:  $1500 down (1st pay, security, DMV fees),
$445 per month (including tax -- 8.25%).

Is this a good deal?  If not, how much should I expect to pay?  This is
the first time I've ever leased a car but it seems like a pretty good
price.

Thanks in advance.

Dave Knight
dknight@elm.sdd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: pop-up lights
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 18:03:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.033537.6595@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (.) writes:
>
>Which was the first production car with pop-up headlights?		  
>What are their advantages/disadvantages?

IMO

advantages
- clean lines in car design

disadvantages
- when up - they're ugly (look like bug eyes) the preferred style is 
  the ones on the corvette that swing into position rather than pop-up
- don't always work right - get stuck in one position or another




-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GM Paint peels!
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:24:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <43741@gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com> jslee@nrtc.nrtc.northrop.com (John Lee) writes:
>It's a shame that GM has to eat this expense; they are not "really"
>to blame for it.  Between the EPA not allowing them to use the
>"right" materials for a good paint job and the paint manufacturers
>not being able to come with EPA-approved alternatives, stuff like
>this will happen.  It's especially bad in Southern California, which
>has its own mini-EPA. And you wonder why business after business are
>relocating out of California. Air gets cleaner but no one left to
>enjoy it.
>
>Foreign cars painted outside the USA have no EPA-type restrictions, so the
>paint jobs look good. Wait til they get body work done in the USA though...

It is interesting to notice a trivia item I read back maybe 8-9 years
ago; That was when the GM factory in Fremont was transformed into
NUMMI, i.e. Chevy Nova/Toyota Corolla. 

In the process of installing the manufacturing systems, they did not even
THINK of using the paint system Toyota uses for that very same reason. 

A couple of years back I took some internal classes and had the
opportunity to talk to a few engineers who do robotic paint processes. 
The stuff they talked about is *fascinating*. If one had the idea that
painting a car is about as easy as painting a house or anything like
that, listening to them would change this in a hurry...

It will be interesting to see how Saturn's water based paint holds up
in the long and very long term. So far my 1 year old SL2 still shines
like new, and I haven't waxed it yet. It only gets washed at the
dealer or by rain :-). 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: tp923021@jarrah.canberra.edu.au (ben elliston)
Sender: gateway@f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Minis
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:00:00

Any Mini fanatics about on the net? :-)

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Tires of the Integra
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 08:50:43 GMT

In article <1ifu5pINN7s4@fido.asd.sgi.com> jice@echo.asd.sgi.com (John Eisenman) writes:
>The time has come for me to replace my tires on my '88 Integra.
...
>The tires that came with the car are:
>
>	Yokohama AX-323   195/60R14 85H
...
>I gather that tire must have been somewhere near bottom of the line.
>Is that true?  It had a treadwear rating of 160.  It has lasted me for
>less than 40,000 miles.  Does that seem right, or is there something
>wrong with my driving?  I understand that these tires sell for about $50.

i have the same OEM tires on my '90 integra.  they are fairly mediocre.
i think the price is closer to $80 than $50, mail order.  why anyone
would choose to buy these is beyond me.  you got close to 40k miles
on yours?  i have serious doubts about whether mine are going to make
it to 25k.  must have something to do with the way i drive.
my friend (who has a '90 GS) replaced his michelin XGTV tires with
pirelli P6, at $55 per tire.  i haven't driven it yet but he's
happy with them.  comments?  the VW GTI i drove several years ago
had P6 and terrific handling, so the tires must be pretty good.

-teddy
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Chicago Home for the Morally Challenged
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:28:25 GMT

In article <issa.726379958@cwis>, issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
> 
> 
> >They are trying to make them more like Japanese cars :
> 
> >1. The body will be made of soft steel that will show outer rust within 
> >   two years, and major rust holes in three, and life- endangering structural
> >   corrosion in four.
>  
> Mostly pre 1984??, older models weren't build for this country. 
> A Toyota now can go over 200k miles and many years without major problems.
> (this is according to many mechanics that I've talked to, and yes, I do know
> there are exceptions for every rule)

Nope, the 90, and 91s in the parking lot are all starting to sprout a crop of
rust flowers around the edges of rocker panels and body seams.


> >2. They will raise the price of replacement parts 500% so you can pay 
> >   $350 for a muffler.
> 
> Not always the case. Breaking less often, more complicated parts, shipped
> across the world, and smaller volume could explain some of this.

funny that the Germans don't seem to have nearly as large a markup on their parts,
but then, they ship by tunnel through the earth.


> >3. They will narrow the wheel base so that the car will roll over 
> >   more easily. 
> 
> .97g on the skid pad with these narrow wheel base cars (and narrow tires).
> (93 RX-7)

In a Suzuki Samurai?  Oh that's Japan Bashing right? Funny that all those people 
claiming that the Samurai was not prone to roll over seemed to miss the fact that
Suzuki dropped the Samurai, and next year introduced the Sidekick. A model that
is virtually identical in all respects except one. It has a WIDER wheel base.



> >4. A portion of the profits from every car will be paid to car magazine 
> >   writers in the form of "consultation fees" to insure that they will
> >   ignore any flaws in the Saturn, inflate performance figures, and 
> >   create a big hoopla about any minor problem with cars built by
> >   other companies. 
> 
> Ha??
> What mental health establishment are you a consumer at? And, if I
> may ask (and in the nicest way), what shade is your neck? bright red, 
> medium red, or dark red?  :)

The same one that The Wall Street Journal reporters who broke the story two
years ago, go to.


> Probably, you are nothing more than some American who will say anything
> to defened his American cars.


No, just one who is not wild about his country becoming a high-tech cargo cult.


                                                 Larry Mayo

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:53:57 GMT

In article <184797@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <64590106@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com> knotts@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Tom Knotts) writes:
>>
>>This is your own opinion. The Saturn is not a cheap car; it is extremely
>>well-engineered.  I'll put my Saturn SL up against any import in the
>>same price range (I paid $9200 out-the-door for a '92).
>>
>  What?  I can't hear you over the racket from that !@#$! engine!
>
>  Its a "nice" car, but none of the most rabid pro-American auto
>  press attempts to pretend it can compete for "look and feel" with
>  the better Japanese and European imports in its price range.

Rabid press like "Consumer Reports" I guess.  Last I saw, most
magazines like "Automobile", "Car and DRiver" and the like seem
to prefer imports.  Just check out their best-of lists.  Same goes
for C/R.

>  But then some people LIKE K-Mart and don't understand why others
>  shop at Magnin's.    
>
>  It's not as "cheap" as the Vega GT, Cosworth Vega, etc. but it
>  ain't an Accord either.

Thank goodness it's not another Accord.  What an overpriced, overhyped
car.  A car in that price class should have more power, and a better
suspension (too soft in my book).  Looks boring to boot.  The LH and
Taurus are better examples of decent cars.

As for engine noise, I prefer the aggressive growl of my 92 SC over
the whine out of a Honda engine.

I don't know what Magin's is (I guess a rather expensive department 
store), but if a product is available at K-Mart that competes quite
well against the product available at Magin's, and you pay more at 
Magin's, then it's your loss (and stupidity).  I guess I can't 
understand why someone would prefer the import over a good domestic;
I guess their jobs means little to them.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: russ@gagme.chi.il.us (Russell J. Price)
Subject: Re: Car dealers
Originator: russ@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:37:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.043301.23028@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Of course, once you've bought the car, all the dealerships suck.  Service
>sucks--just plain sucks, no matter where you go.

Not necessarily -- the service department at the dealer where I bought my '92
GMC Sonoma (Community Pontiac/GMC in Oak Forest, IL) has been quite good.
Perhaps the "hunger effect" you mentioned regarding sales also applies to
service.  Perhaps they won't be so good when the warranty expires, though. :-)
On the other hand, I've heard good things about them from other customers.
In any case, I'm ordering the factory service manuals...
-- 
Russ Price                      russ@gagme.chi.il.us
----------------------------------------------------
Chicago: where rivers leak and bridges fall up...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cshafai@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Cyrus Shafai)
Subject: Re: GM Minivans to be discontinued?
Keywords: minivan
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:18:51 GMT

frankc@tgf.tc.faa.gov (Frank Coffman) writes:

>I'm completing my first cut of test driving the various minis, and today
>the Ford sales rep told me that the GM Minivans were being discontinued
>next year.  Any truth to this, or more sales BS ?

As far as I know, this is more sales BS.  GM plans to re-style their
mini-vans in 94 or 95 though.  They will, however, not be abandoning them.
Besides, even if they did, they will provide parts for up to 10 years.
 

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cyrus Shafai                        <cshafai@ee.umanitoba.ca>
The Scanning Tunneling Microscopy Laboratory  -  STM/AFM Lab
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada   ph. (204) 474-6007
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:34:51 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard / Vancouver Division

daveb@lotus writes:

[ Elan stuff]

Who was the local dealer that folded - Barber Bros.?  That is sad.  When I
call them now, all I get is a recording.


>If they dropped the price of a Turbo-esprit another 20 to 44k, they
>still might move some units.

I'd be surprised if anyone is really paying $90K for one.  I would expect
"new" 91's and 92's to be selling nearer to $60K.

-Dave

>Windows/NT - the VMS of the 90s

As good as VMS, hm?  Nahh, g'wan!  Besides, it's just fartware now, eh?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #8
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:18:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.061901.11735@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>, mfolivo@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark Newton-John) writes:
|> In <C0CLoE.5xI@Interlan.com> powell@interlan.interlan.com (Glen D. Powell) writes:
|> >...Toyota is said to be working on a narrow-angle V6 similar to the VR6
|> >VW's installed in the Corrado and Passat.....  2.5 liters and 4-valve
|> >heads with SOHC, HP unavailable.
|> 
|> >Geee, the Japs are copying another company's successfull idea!, Ed.
|> 
|> For crying out loud, why in the HELL did you have to make that kind
|> of cracker racist remark? What a jerk. If you think that Volkswagen
|> AG is so good with their ideas, then why did they let the Wankel
|> patents go public dmain??? Shit, those idiot Germans had it, and
|> couldn't make the damn thing work. 

Maybe they saw something everyone else is ignoring; namely that the
Wankel is very difficult to get emission certified and to remain so.
I owned two Wankel powered Mazda's and they consistently failed the
emissions test in AZ (big time).  I got tired of getting waivers and
got of them.  Now they have a lot of fancy stuff attached to solve
the problem -- the Germans were never big on complicated solutions
when a simpler approach worked.

|> Toyota has been making four valve engines for their Corollas for
|> YEARS before Volkswagen decided to get a brain fart of their own
|> and make a four valve. 

I guess I would like to hear what models and years of Corolla you
are talking about that came "years" before VW even thought of it?
Seems to me that the FX16 came after the Scirocco 16V.

|>                 If German manufacturers are so "high-tech",
|> then why do PEDESTRIAN Toyota Corollas have twin-cam, four-valve
|> engines, and all you can get on a bloody Passat is some asthmatic 2
|> liter with a single cam and two valves per cylinders?

If having a lot of complex buzz-word features is high tech, then yeah,
the Japanese have more of it than VW.  But IMHO that hardly passes as
good or sound engineering.  I tend to buy for functionality and not to
impress anyone with my latest "toy."
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ford models
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:36:17 GMT
Organization: Illinois State University

In article <1993Jan9.134941.11969@black.ox.ac.uk> rabson@oxford.ac.uk (David Rabson) writes:
>Are the Fiestas not sold in North America?  Is there something wrong
>with them?
>
I don't believe Fiestas a have been imported in the U.S. for several years.
My father had one once which I liked.  The Festiva is now available in the
U.S. which comes from Japan or some other Asian country.  It is similar to
Fiesta but IMHO not as good.  Ford does not advertise the Festiva much on
television nor in the periodicals which I read.
     I looked at a Festiva about 1 1/2 years ago before purchasing an Escort
and was unimpressed by the noise when opening the door and hatch so I never
drove the car.

-- 
Chas                         DoD #7769

"Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"
                                               - Firesign Theatre