From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: RE-MACS COST TOO MUCH (NOT!)
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:04:21 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <ajross.715572489@husc10>, ajross@husc10.harvard.edu (Andrew Ross) writes:
> 
> Seriously, If you read our posts, most of us PC advocates are only trying
> to clear up what we see as misconceptions in the Mac community.  

Ah, I see, you are trying to "educate" us, show us the error of our ways.
Understandable.

> Really,
> folks, I LIKE the Mac.  I USE the Mac.  I LIKE USING the Mac.  

Great, so do we. That's why we feel the Mac is worth whatever it costs to own.

> That is not the issue.  

Oh, but it is. It is central to the whole question. If you dismiss this
aspect -- that computing should be an ENJOYABLE experience -- then you
are bound to cause dissention and flamewars.

> As I see it, PC's have a whole array of advantages, most
> notably cost, that are often all too easily ignored by Mac users for what
> are essentially aesthetic, and not practical reasons.

So, you are saying that Mac folks are an impractical lot concerned only with
looks instead of substance?

My counter example is Microsoft Windows. Windows has much of the APPEARANCE
of the Mac UI. Sure, some things are different, like where the menus are,
and where you are allowed to size windows. But if you saw either computer
screen from a distance, you'd be hard pressed to tell one from another, 
especially if you expected the other.

Unfortunately for Windows users, Windows lacks much of the SUBSTANCE of the
Mac OS. It runs through everything from the keyboard shortcuts to the lack
of a comprehensive set of guidelines for application User Interfaces. 

The Mac UI was has evolved from research Apple performed on user interfaces.
They try things out in front of folks and study the results. Sometimes the
results aren't consistant with the programmer's notions. People are like
that, they react differently than you expect.

Windows UI, OTOH, appears to be hacked together by a bunch of programmers. I
can think of two excellent examples of this. 1) Quick, which is copy and
which is paste, Ctrl-Ins or Shift-Ins? 2) Try to delete a bunch of files
with the File Manager. Exactly how many times are you asked if you want to
delete a file? How about Rename? Why can't you just edit the file name 
like any type-in field? Why do you have to type a new name?

So, it's not aesthetics, it is something deeper that attracts Mac users. That's
why they cling so tenaciously to their machines. To dismiss such attraction
as mere "aesthetics" is to invite Armageddon-level flame wars.

If you look at the substance of it, the practical reasons are there. They
are hard to find, but they are there. 

It's not that Mac people want a computer. They want a USEABLE computer. Unless
you happen to be a DOS guru, PCs aren't as usable as a Mac.

PCs do have advantages, I'll admit. If I wanted to build a process controller
or set up a dedicated network file server, I'd consider a PC. But not to set
in front of a person to do real work. I think that's cruel. I've been forced
to work with PCs again for the last couple of months at work, and I remember
why I dislike PCs so much: they are just plain aggravating to work with.

> And lighten up, folks.  If you don't want to read us, put us in your kill
> file.  Don't get yourselves all upset over a computer system.

This sorta cuts both ways. I'm interested in reading these messages to try
to understand the different persectives people have with regard to computers.
However, when someone jumps into a Mac newsgroups and declares that Macs
are too expensive, and proceeds to "educate" the newsgroup about the
superiority of PCs, I can see that people would get royally pissed off.
Especially when it appears that the educator hasn't bothered to really
educate himself about Macs.

I welcome polite discourse. Not ignorant flaming.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc