HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:44:24 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan6.142748.19712@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Bullshit.  Take a look at UNIX.  VM was added to BSD because it is useful,
>not because they wanted to sell more copies.
>
>My God, how I hate this net-trendy I-can-see-through-all-the-hype attitude!!!

I wouldn't lay claim to know anyone who would call BSD a real-time
operating system, either.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Mac is not ideal (was Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:05:19 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <d3jy03=8c7VH00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> alan@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) writes:
>System 7.0 is just Multifinder with a few bells.  The "tool" is
>WaitNextEvent.   What printer facilities do you suggest that my
>program use?  PRT:?  sure, now change the printer font to
>Times 12 point.. Oh you have to know how the printer works? QED!
>
>How do you mix text and graphics?  Screen dump?  Nice high resolution
>for text isn't it?

Oh, boy.  For a developer, you're a real genius.  It's not hard to
figure out.

Basically, you create a SECOND bitmap at the full resolution of the
printer, whatever size that may translate to.  Use the rastport as you
would anything else--draw out your primitives to it at the correct
magnified size, etc.

If you're intelligent, you're using your screen representation as a
shrunk-down version of the rastport for the printer.  Then, once
you've drawn everything out to the rastport, blast it out to the
printer as a bitmapped graphic.

Voila, it gets printed at the full resolution of the printer.

It's REALLY not that difficult a concept.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor)
Subject: Re: An Amigan does it *again* Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Summary: Mostly Harmless... 
Keywords: Fish Ford Finland Fjords 
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 15:32:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.143803.20006@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Tom R Krotchko (TomK@cup.portal.com) wrote:
>
>So you're saying that the Amiga version of Civilization isn't one of those
>Amiga games that takes over the machine and kills all other running tasks?
>Nice to hear.
>

 Yeah, they are SOOO rare - but the numbers are nicely increasing thank you.
	And there are always our favorites from Maxis, and Microprose... 
	both of whom produce nicely multitasking games...

>--
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

/============================================================================\
| L. Douglas Taylor InterNet: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu |    IMPORTANT:    |
|=========================================================|   This message   |
| Guildenstern: We cross our bridges when we come to them | has cost the Net |
|   and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our | hundreds, if not |
|   progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a |    thousands,    |
|   presumption that once our eyes watered...             |    of dollars    |
|                                                         |     to send.     |
\============================================================================/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
From: <PAACC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Jan 1993 08:52:26 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


 I'm running on a 500 with 1.3 so if you have all these complaints about 2.0, I
would hate to hear what you have to say about 1.3.
 When you say Macintosh the first thing that pops into my mind (and into many
other already computer-literate people) is the computer for the those who don't
 know a thing about computers. It's so nice with it's WIMP (pre-GUI term)
interface. I think the Amiga was designed as a sort of compromise between the
MS-DOS world of C:> and the GUI world of the Mac. I use the Shell for most thin
gs. Perhaps because I don't have a HD and it gets tiring to wait for a drawer
 to open. But I like the shell for it's power. I hate having to click and drag,
double click, drag and drop,etc. It does make some things easier but it gets to
be a real bore. That is my major complaint against the Mac. Sure it has this
great UI but it *needs* it. You can't do things any other way. With the Amiga,
you can use the cli/shell. Yes it does increase the learning curve but for the
power you gain (and I really do think you gain alot of power over the system by
 having a CLI) I think it's worth it. My experience with Macs has been limited
to an SE with 2 drives on a network running Finder so I don't know about how
Multifinder works but if it's like Windows with windows all over the place,
doesn't sound too good. With the Amiga, you can just click the front/back  gadg
ets to check what you have running. I see no problem with that. The AmigaDOS
Status command should report *all* tasks running, including WB started ones and
 that could take of that. And there's always stuff like Xoper which can lists
all sorts of stuff.
 Well let me stop rambling. I say this, I do agree with you somewhat that on th
e surface, the WB could stand some improvements. But take the whole machine int
o account. I don't think it's fair to compare WB with Mac GUI to GUI as the
Amiga offers an alternative to accessing your stuff that the Mac doesn't.Anyhow
 Mac is up to System 7.0. Quite a few revesions.
Paul Abreu
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:13:47 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Wed  6 Jan 93  1:42, An780@cleveland.freenet.edu (travis
wrote:

 A> Apple doesn't even consider Commodore a problem, also probably because
 A> the products being released from Apple in 1993 and 1994 will shut
 A> Commodore down in a few years.

You wish, don't you? :)  Heck, it could even be the other way around.  Heh.

Opps. Sorry to make you piss in your pants.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 06:13:35 GMT

In article <C0o6Ku.K6I@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:
>
>     It's interesting that when I took my Amiga to work (to get some things
>done more efficiently than I could have on my 486), several of the people
>who saw me using it were amazed.  One of them is now saving for a 1200, 
>and another has started buying copies of Amiga magazines to learn more about
>the machines.  These are both former die-hard DOS/Windows/OS2 users.
>     Who's defecting?
>

On a related note - quite a few of my friends in the ModLang Department were
	using Macs and complaining about the price/performance ration; need-
	less to say, they were at least *mildly* impressed when shown what
	an A2500 (what FSU buys... gee, go figure) ran AMAX II (now, AMAX II+).
	Seems that, having already defected from IBM's rather inadequate realm
	of foreign language related software, they found it quite as easy,
	FOR ECONOMIC reasons, to shift over to the Amiga...

>
>-- 
>Don Lloyd                / "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of \
>don@chopin.udel.edu      | another computer is a kludge.  It has nothing to do |
>GeNIE: D.LLOYD7          \ with the Intel CPU"  - Jerry Shekhel                /
>BIX: DRL  

/============================================================================\
| L. Douglas Taylor InterNet: dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu |    IMPORTANT:    |
|=========================================================|   This message   |
| Guildenstern: We cross our bridges when we come to them | has cost the Net |
|   and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our | hundreds, if not |
|   progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a |    thousands,    |
|   presumption that once our eyes watered...             |    of dollars    |
|                                                         |     to send.     |
\============================================================================/

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:51:38 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1993Jan4.155026.7941@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> miked@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Mike Danielsen) writes:
>
>Here's what I would like to see on the Amiga:
>
>1. mac style cut and paste in my favorite editor, CED.

You should look at TEXTRA.  It has cut, copy paste between windows
exactly like the Macs.
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: Questions about new computers/future chipsets
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:38:11 GMT

In article <38388@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com
(Dave Haynie) writes:

>The A4000 will be capable of running 4.0, and 4.0 is supposed to support RTG.
>Therefore, the A4000 could support any display device added in as a Zorro
>card. It's possible to put the new "high-end" chip set on such a card.

Two points :).

>Whether C= will do so or not is up to C=.

Ugh! Air ball :).

>As for the A1200, certainly some display device might fit on its local bus
>card, but it might be a tight squeeze.

Now that would certainly be interesting.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 7 Jan 1993 15:46:20 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>The point is that these cheap 486s are fast and good if you eg. just play
'>games, but you can't trust on them.  I have had three Amigas, A1000, A2000
'>and I have A3000 now and I haven't have any problems with them.

	I agree that those ultra cheap 486's are a risk, but don't make
   Commodore out to be perfect.  I had endless problems with my A500 and
   a friend of mine had a lot of problems with his A3000.  So I could say
   just the opposite of what you did above, you can't trust on Amigas.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


'>    Harri Pesonen               harry@elfuerte.fipnet.fi
'>    Helsinki, Finland, EC?      Markka is floating...  1 USD = 5.3 FIM
From: jbhr@sofal.adsp.sub.org (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:33:36 GMT
Distribution: adsp
Organization: Not an Organization
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <3794@cbmehq.esco.so.commodore.com> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
> In article <EMCOOP.93Jan11095850@bcars148.bnr.ca> emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith) writes:
> >
> >new group - comp.sys.pet.advocacy :-)
>
> YYYEEEEAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
>
> Peter, one of the most extreme PET lovers... :-)

Besides me ... :-))

jbhr
--
Hans-Joachim Widmaier | (ECG135) | jbhr@sofal.adsp.sub.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
X-Spook-Fodder: hero heroin tree shrub bush birth life death FBI CIA NSA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:49:02 GMT

In <C0qstz.7CD@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>>>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>>>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>>>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.
>>
>>Don't be such an ass.  Commodore gets info on the 060 early just like 
>>the Clone assemblers get info on the 586 early.  As for selling Amigas
>>that can use the 060, Commodore has been doing that since the A1000.

>So if I want a 68060 based computer, I can buy a A4000 for $2500.00,
>throw out the 68040, and put in the 68060...good plan!

uh, that's exactly what you'll have to do with your intel box. unless of 
course you believe the "coprocessor" nonsense - like they do with the "math 
coprocessor" for 486sx's - the "coprocessor" is just a full dx cpu that 
disables the 486sx! if that isn't disingenuous, i don't know what is...

>How long was the 68060 out before a stock Amiga supported it?

i assume you mean either the 030 or the 040. my 030 manual is copyright
1989, and the A3000 arrived in 1990 - though that isn't exactly the
most useful dating scheme. let's not forget either that there were 030
and 040 boards available for the a2000 shortly after general release of the
processors.

but why are we having these pissing contests about stuff that is nearly
completely irrelevant?
-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

"Those who will trade essential liberty for promise of security will have
 neither" - Benjamin Franklin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:38:02 GMT

In <1993Jan6.145700.20413@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Untrue.  Let's look at two systems.  System A has 8MB RAM.  System B has
>8MB RAM + VM.  You need to run two CPU-intensive applications.  Each
>application's image size is 5MB.  Each application's CPU-intensive working
>set size is 2MB.  System A *cannot* multitask the two applications -- you
>must run them sequentially.  System B *may* swap a bit initially, but it
>will eventually reach a state where both applications are running smoothly,
>*without* swapping.  This is an example of VM increasing performance and
>productivity.

But is not a representative example for programs on personal computers.
The 'working set' might be small enough for a long running batch job that 
subsequentially reaches different processing steps. But this is untrue
for an interactive program which is also the most visible case when any
new function selected leads to heaving paging activity because the
'working set' changes.
Determining the 'working set' is also an art. A large background job
(that even may benefit from VM) usually keeps other jobs out of physical
memory because the OS can only optimize for short term memory usages
to follow changes of 'working set'. If it doesn't anticipate changes
then the 'working set' can only grow until it reaches the complete size
of the program.
The existence of a well-defined 'working set' of a program is a myth.

>There it is again.  Both you and Greg keep whining about minimum
>RAM configurations.  What does this have to do with whether or not VM
>is useful?  I never said that VM is better than RAM; I said that VM is
>better than no VM.  Get the difference?

The point is that having VM doesn't help when you do not have sufficient
physical RAM. The question is how much is sufficient. For most personal
computers this is nearly identical to the amount of memory needed by all
programs you want to run concurrently.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.toronto.edu (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Mutimedia?? 
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:12:49 GMT

In article <C0Hrrr.77I@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:

[ ]
>
>If I were buying a computer for a child today, I would without doubt
>buy an MPC.  You would be foolish to buy a CDTV with a fraction of the
>titles, and less power.

Well I have both, and neither is very satisfactory for children. There are
few CD-ROM's for MPC's that are truly worth it. Perhaps the Macmillan's
Dictionary for Children and the titles put out by Texas Caviar ( Whale of
a Tale, Annabel's Dream of Ancient Egypt-> for older children), but for the
most part you'll find very little that's interactive. An example is Interactive
Storytime (I and II). This is an MPC title that reads 3 books (I have volume
I). Almost no motion, does not retain the interest of children, etc...Even
the Discis titles, available for both platforms, are better (and I have very
mixed feelings about these). 
 
For a $40 interesting MPC title one could have a look at Broderbrund's 
Just Grandma and Me. It does have something special. However for all of
10 pages (or so) you'd still be better off reading to your children. I do
admit it is appealing to children though.
 
In short, CD-ROM has little to offer families at this time. It is one big
hype, and far too expensive (both the delivery platforms and the titles
which bounce around at absurd prices). 
 
CDTV/CD-I still have more potential. 
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toornto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re:  Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:58:27 GMT

>Umm lets see here...  The Amiga is going to be 9 years old this comming
>year, and is already emulating IBM 486's at benchmarked 105 Mhz, they

Bullshit pure and simple.  No Amiga can emulate the 486 chip.  You can
put a 486 chip and use the Amiga for I/O (relegating it to it's proper
place in the universe) but you cannot EMULATE a 486...not at any
speed..

>Which company just "released" a lot of workers???  I think IBM did  (the
>IBM-MAC joke of a computer they are coming up with probably made
>them loose too much money, (you know, they had to upgrade the macs soooo
>much to get them even close to working together...) and when this new and
>totally awesome (NOT!) computer comes out, the Amiga will emulate it as
>well.  You sound like a "PC dork"...  NO mater what kind of info is given to
>you, the Amiga is not as good as IBM/MAC/Doorstop, because you don't
>like the fact that is taking over the video production world.

Sure, an antiquated CISC architecture is going to EMULATE one of the
fastest RISC CPUs available today.  You really don't have a clue, do
you?  That emulation would be so slow it wouldn't even be worth the
trouble!

>

>This I have to agree with you on.  I am quite stressed because of Commodore
>and their market ideas.  But all of that aside, they have done a better
>job, with less money, and less backers, than mac or IBM.

Bullshit again!  Apple started in a garage!  CBM was a large company
comparitively!

>I can name a few business people that do anything but laugh at Amigas..
>would you like their phone numbers??

The key word is "a few."  Any fortune 500 CEO's porting their mainframe
software to the Amiga?  I didn't think so.

>It is pretty easy for me to say I would NEVER buy a mac.  I have had to
>use them since 8th grade, and I hate them.  They are slow, and out dated.
>Amiga is my choice for computers (live with it Travis).  Though I must say
>at this point, if I was going to run a multi-node UNIX system, I would
>probably do it with an IBM setup, because I have used SCO, and
>I feel pretty good in its enviroment.  BUT, I have never used an Amiga
>Unix system, so I don't know what they are like (probably not much different
>I would assume).

Probably a LOT different.  There is no multiprocessor Amiga Unix, is
there?  Besides, how much industry support do you think AmigaUnix has?
How many major apps (not little utilities) are being ported to it?

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:38:58 GMT

>Why don't you just call Creative Computers and get one?  I paid less than
>$2800 before the price cuts and I'd bet that they are even less expensive
>now.  It's as easy as calling Gateway 2000...

Ease isn't everything!  First: How much customizing can you get with
that?  Can you tell them the brand of hard drive, and the interface?  And
the speed of the ram?  And the video card maker?  And the sound card?

And if you put these things in yourself, is it still under warranty?

And what exactly are you getting for your $2800.00? (US!!!)  Is that a
240MB hard drive, and 8MB of Ram and a CD-ROM?  I would hope so for
that price.
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 21:23:13 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <C0n57o.GDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
  <1993Jan10.164112.9102@ra.msstate.edu>
  <C0nnDn.3ML@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>

>>Paul, why are you worried about the Amiga?  You obviously like the Clones,

>I spend time here combatting inaccuracies like 486s

Well shucks. And all along, you were stringing us along that you
were interested in buying an Amiga.  Now you're searching the internet
to defend the 486 against "inaccuracies".

Incidentally, does it burn you up that many people buy 11 items
in the "10 items only" line at the supermarket?

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:52:29 GMT

In <C0KLo3.EC4@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>of the A500.  Finally, consider any extra power to accomodate PCMCIA
>peripherals, which are even less likely to have their own power supply than
>peripherals plugged into the A500's side expansion port.

Less. You forgot technological advances.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy