HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: BEST POINT GUARD IN NBA
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:16:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.180545.27622@cc.umontreal.ca> iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul) writes:
>
>STOCKTON
>- leads league in assists every year
>- lead league in steals in 91-92
>- scores about 15 points a game
>- team leader
>
>HARDAWAY
>- scores more than Stockton (about 22 a game)
>- not as many assists
>- more turnovers
>- less steals
>- not as good defensively
>- but penetrates the lane better than Stockton (with that "killer" UTEP 2 STEP)
>- more of a flashy point guard than Stockton

As for needing replies, I'm sure you'll get more than you need.  I think the
thing that keeps Stockton from being #1 and on par with Magic is that he won't
go on torrid scoring streaks.  I think if you put a bit of Isiah Thomas into
Stockton, (although not too much), he'd be the perfect pure point guard.
It would help if Utah had a less predictable offense, ie pass to one of the
Malones or Stockton take a jump shot.

As far as Hardaway is concerned, that is a killer step he has, but he still
only shoots 46%...maybe he should try to pass to Billy Owens more often and
get him more involved.  Can explode, but you want him to explode with more
consistency.  Breaking the all time NBA record for missing in a game (0 - 17)
is not a good thing.

I guess in my mind, Magic Johnson will always be the perfect point guard.
As Worthy put it, when are you ever going to see a 6'9'' point guard come
down the floor and smile while he humiliates you?  Magic certainly had no
superior when it came to rebounding or passing, and twice he led the league
in steals.  When his defensive one on one skills faded so that he couldn't
guard the KJs of the league, his three point percentage and FT% went way up.
Other than physical skills though, he walked the line as well as possible
between control and getting his teammates involved.  The only person in history
who I think will ever lead his team in scoring and be unselfish (although I
didn't see Nate Archibald play)...

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ortcm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (thomas.mcguigan)
Subject: Re: Hakeem Olajuwon trade rumors
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:09:03 GMT
Keywords: Hakeem Olajuwon trade

In article <1992Sep14.165737.3919@HQ.Ileaf.COM> raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka) writes:
>The Best HAkeem rumor that I have heard to date has the Pistons
>sending Dennis Rodman to Orlando, and the MAGiC sending Stanley Roberts 
>to Houston, with the Rockets sending HAkeem to Detroit

The Magic can only trade Roberts for a player of "comparable value."  Because
he received a raise of > 30% this year, Roberts' "comparable value" is set at
the value of his previous year's contract - $550K.  This is why all of the
trade rumors involving Stanley show Orlando as receiving draft picks, not a
player or players.

The latest Stanley update:  Roberts said in an interview that he wants to see
if a twin towers scheme will work.  If Shaq and he can make it work then he
wants stay in Orlando for the year, if not he would be open to being traded.
It looks like the no-trade stance might be softening.  No word on any trade
preferences.

Tom@Orlando
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Knicks get Tony Campbell
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:13:54 GMT
Organization: VMark Software, Inc.

Well, just a week after the Knicks lost XMan, they trade for Tony Campbell
from the Timberwolves.  Campbell is the TWolves all-time leading scorer,
and should be a solid starter for the Knicks, as they know have a quality
small forward again.  So, even after all the wheelings and dealings, their
starting lineup looks like this (Probable, that is)

PG : Mark Jackson
SG : Rolando Blackman
SF : Tony Campbell
PF : Charles Oakley
C  : Patrick Ewing.

Campbell is not that much of an improvement over the X, but Ro is a very 
good addition, and adds another real scoring threat.  

Oh well, are they done yet??? Who knows...

-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gregory@flood.zso.dec.com (Peter Gregory)
Subject: Re: Pacers "bad" trade
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:49:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.060359.9911@cs.rose-hulman.edu> statesse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Scott E States) writes:
>
>A lot of people out there are saying the Pacers made a really bad trade.  I  
>have to agree that it looks bad on paper, but maybe not if you look beyond  
>stats.It looks to me like Williams and Richardson are pretty equal stat-wise, 
>but I think Richardson is a little bit younger. ( I may be wrong... )  

The only real problem is that Williams can't stop anyone defensively.  Sure 
plenty of steals, but look at the points he gives up night after night.
Even the Boston fans have to agree that he made John Bagley look like a Hall-o-
famer for a few games.

If Williams == Pooh there is no trade, or the press goes nuts about how one 
sided it is.  Did any expert second guess the trade?  No.

Peter


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: 11telliott@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Zarathustra)
Subject: Re: The Two Trades
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 04:34:02 GMT

In article <BuBx3z.KE5@encore.com>, jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa) writes:
> 
> I don't like Seikaly offensively.  You're right, that he has improved 
> defensively grabbing about 12 board a night, and Long (& Rice) has also
> helped out in that department.  Seikaly averaged about 16 pts per game last
> year, decent.  But if you really look down the home stretch last year,
> the Heat did not go inside to Seikaly as much.  Honestly, the man cannot
> make a move.  Every time he would try to make a move, he would be called
> for traveling!  HE CAN LEARN!  But he has to be more aggressive, I think
> that is his problem.  Rice had that problem, but solved it, and now is
> willing to take it strong to the hole, which has allowed him to keep
> defenders off balance.
> 
The true indicator of how a player truly performs is during crunch time, and we
had three games worth of crunch time, namely the playoff series against Chicago
last season, and two players stood out: Rony Seikaly and Steve Smith. Steve
Smith made only 3 turnovers! Rony was the go-to guy, and kept Bill Cartwright
off key. (Well, any center in the league except Kurt Rambis can do that, too)
;) Glen Rice froze, but I think it was the minor injury he had to go thru
during the series with Chicago. The others were just surviving, and being a
stiff, generally.

> Regardless, it should be a fine season.  Can wait for tix to go on sale.
> 
> We'll finish better than Boston!!
> 
> Joe Sosa
-- 
Ahh, this is where I'm in a complete agreement. John Salley will add savvy and
playoff attitude/expertise to a young but explosive team and should contend
seriously for the Eastern Division with New York Knicks. I'm thrilled, and
cannot wait for the season to start! Truly this season will be a season to
remember for the Heat. Stay tuned...

Todd Elliott
11TELLIOTT@GALLUJ (Bitnet)
11TELLIO@GALLUX.GALLAUDET.EDU (Internet)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan)
Subject: Re: Knicks get Tony Campbell
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:51:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.041354.35361@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>Well, just a week after the Knicks lost XMan, they trade for Tony Campbell
>from the Timberwolves.  Campbell is the TWolves all-time leading scorer,
>and should be a solid starter for the Knicks, as they know have a quality
>small forward again.  

Can some Timberwolf fan tell us more about Campbell ? Does he fit in to
the Riley system (fast breaks, physical defense etc.) ?
From: chrisda@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Clyde's knee
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:48:21 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

The subject line says it.  Anyone know anything about The Glyde's sore/swollen
knee?  It was still sore in the Olympics (bad sign!) but haven't heard much
about it since.
From: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:43:24 GMT
Reply-To: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <1992Sep8.180707.19967@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:

>Let's here your real legitimate argument as to why it should have been
>Laettner not JJ.

They took the player of the year.  I get the impression it was a reward of
sorts for this achievement, as well as his service in international ball.

>>And Shaq is certainly not a 
>>better shooter (especially on those free throws!) than CL. And tell, me why
>>*shouldn't* "availability for other tourneys" count?
>I bet that you couldn't get the Dream Team to go to those tourneys.  I can
>really see Jordan/Bird/Magic playing in those.  They were never available
>for those games, and they wouldn't go if asked.  Also those games are
>a waste of one's time, I sure he and most others would rather spend it
>with their families.

  You miss my point.  Those tourneys were not open to pro players, only
amateurs.  There is actually talk of sending NBA players to such events as
the World Championships and the Pan-Am games, though probably not Dream Team
members.  Or hadn't you heard?  "they wouldn't go if asked"  How do you know?
Why are these games a waste of time?  The Olympians obviously didn't think so.

>The most over-hyped we hope he's the next Larry Bird player is what they
>wanted and got.  POY awards only go to guys who are on teams good enough
>to make them look good.  Switch Shaq with Jordan/Magic and its unlikely
>that they would win the POY awards though they are far far better players.
 
Your pathological hatred for Laettner is getting in the way of your ability
to reason.  Shaq *won* POY the previous year.  He and Larry Johnson split
the honors. Or hadn't you heard?  And that LSU team certainly did not make 
him look good.  Laettner was the leading scorer on a balanced team, and he
had to carry more than his share of the load when Hurley and then G.Hill went
down.  Or hadn't you heard?  You *do* watch basketball, don't you?

--Rob Clough 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack)
Subject: Re: Will the NBA ever let
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 17:17:17 GMT

bewillia@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Maj. Devon McKnight) writes:

>In fact, why did he allow the Bulls to draft him [Jordan] in the
>first place?  Couldn't they have manipulated the referees into making
>the Knicks worse than the Bulls that year, so they could've drafted
>him?  I think we need an investigation, and we need it now.

Houston and Portland had a crack at Jordan, but didn't draft him. Plus
NBA redeemed itself by awarding Ewing to New Yok the following year.

>				- Dev

    --mack

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Magic playing part-time?
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:59:40 GMT

aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff) writes:
>Personally, I don't know if Magic ought to be allowed to play
>part-time.  Yeah, I know he's HIV+, and doctors advise against him
>playing a full season.  But he's not the only player in the league
>with various health problems.

I don't understand your point.  When you say "allowed" -- by whom?
Do you mean the doctors should stop him from playing?  Or that the
Lakers should not agree to his playing part time?  Or that the league
or players union should be opposed to a part timer?

>(Flame away...)

I'd love to, but what the hell are you talking about?


--Gidi
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: RICK FOX!!! ROOLZ (Re: X-man to Boston)
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:45:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <15815@ksr.com>, dorin@ksr.com (Bob Dorin) writes:
> 
> OK, Ellie, it's time to resort to desperate tactics.  Who's got the
> 1991-92 stats?  Calling Ed Lor!  I want a full comparison between
> Kevin Gamble (does most things well but not EVERYTHING) and Rick Fox
> (does nothing particularly well but the fans LOVE him).  C'mon, what
> are the numbers?  Not that numbers mean everything, but Fox is
> NOTHING!!



	Here's some info on Gamble/Fox from last season:
 
          G   MIN   FG  FGA  FG%   FT  FTA   FT%  REB  AST  ST  TO BLK   PPG        
Gamble   82  2496  480  908 .529  139  157  .885  286  219  75  97  37   13.5
Fox      81  1535  241  525 .459  139  184  .755  220  126  78 123  30    7.9


	Its pretty obvious that, based on last season's stats, Fox wasn't ready
to displace Gamble from the lineup. Fox shooting needs to improve a LOT and
his turnover number was pretty ugly too. Unfortunately, I don't have # of fouls
committed last year. But we all know Fox was getting wistled at a pretty high
rate.

	The thing I like about Fox over Gamble, is that he at least appears to
have some idea what he is supposed to be doing defensively. He stays in good
position while guarding his man, moves his feet well, and is reasonably quick!
He does need to get smarter on D. He's too aggresive and (like most NBA rookies)
made *stupid* fouls all too often. 

	I think Fox will do better this year. He'll be more prepared for the
NBA. He should be smarter on Defense. Hopefully his shotting will improve, but
that harder to predict (IMHO).

	I hope Ford take advantage of Xman's presence by giving Gamble & Fox more
time at the 2-spot backing up Lewis. Reggie lead the team in minutes last year. 
Having Xman at SF frees up minutes for the other two to spell Lewis more this
year. And Jon Barry can go play with the Albany Patroons! :-)

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Subject: Re: X-man to Boston
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 22:25:05 GMT

In article <BuDH3y.67B@ora.com> ellie@ora.com (Ellie Cutler) writes:
>
>..[..]...  He will wear #31 (of ML Carr fame),

i believe cedric maxwell, who was wearing #30, was asked by ML if he'd
mind giving it up and Max said ok.  at any rate, ML wore #30 and it was
Max who wore #31.

>
>McHale on the signing: "Great! Now we have two great postup players."
>Gavitt: "Who's the other one?"

hah - good to see gavitt clowning with mchale...
>
>        Ellie Cutler

- nate
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|       Xavier McDaniel was LAMPOONED mercilessly by McHale!!!!!         |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jerry@MicroUnity.com (Jerry Kreuscher)
Subject: Re: T-Wolves self-destructing
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:54:53

In article <BuB9Fy.1uo@ora.com> ellie@ora.com (Ellie Cutler) writes:

	[ ... ]

   Toni Morgan are you out there?

	[ ... ]

Toni is back from a vacation, but her news feed has whithered.  (I
knew something was wrong when she had nothing to say about the UVa-
in-the-Final-Four thread and the Ralf Sampson thread over in GaRy's
group.)  She's keen to share her opinion of the trade.  Usually she
would ask His Eminence, Charlie Cardinal Richter, to post for her, so
I am much honored.

Toni writes:

  Hi guys!  This is indeed my first day back at work from vacation.  I
  arrived home Monday evening, so was here just in time for the Big
  Trade yesterday.  The original subject seems to indicate that at least
  someone (was that you, Ellie?)  seems to think that the trade was a
  bad one for the Wolves.  I disagree, but then I was never much of a
  Pooh fan.  I always thought he would make a better off guard than a
  point guard.

  How 'bout some statistics to back up my gut reaction:

  Year     G   FG%   FT%  RPT  APG   PPG
  M. Williams    1991-92  79  .490  .871  3.6  8.2  15.0
  P. Richardson  1991-92  82  .466  .691  3.7  8.4  16.5

  C. Person      1991-92  81  .480  .675  5.3  4.7  18.5
  S. Mitchell    1991-92  82  .423  .736  5.8  1.2  10.1

  I also like the fact that Williams went to the line 427 times; Pooh
  only 178 times.  Tells me that Williams must be better at going to the
  basket, a skill that Pooh is either lacking or unwilling to use most
  of the time.  Of course, Person has that rep.  On the other hand, Pooh
  had his own problems, somewhat of a whiner.  I don't think he would
  ever have been happy here or have developed into much more than he had
  already shown.  Whether or not Indianna helps is another question.  He
  wants to be in California.

  There is some local speculation that with both Person and Laettner (we
  hope) the Wolves are turning into a team with some attitude, not a lot
  unlike the last team that Trader Jack put together . . . Detroit, I
  think it was.  The worst part of the deal is that it will make it
  harder to sign Laettner because it increased the Woofies payroll
  significantly.

  Now, if only we could get rid of that Aussie stiff!

Folks interested in the Minneapolis franchise can reach Toni at
trm@zetaco.com.

Earnestly,
Jerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bewillia@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Maj. Devon McKnight)
Subject: Re: The X-Man cometh.  Now what about Charles Smith?
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:26:07 EDT

In the last article you read, I wrote:

>	Of course, the point will be mute if Stanley Roberts quits stalling
				     ^^^^

	Moot, dammit, MOOT!  Sorry 'bout that.

>				- Dev

			

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ahall@fmrco.com (Andrew Hall)
Subject: Re: Knicks Blunder
Organization: Fidelity Management & Research Co.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:33:14 GMT


In article <18raagINN1n8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:

   Well, losing a tough, put it on the line, player like X drops NY into an
   "also-ran" for the coming season, IMHO.  Their GM must be a moron, letting
   such a tough contributor go to a conference rival!  If I were a Knicks fan,
   I'd be calling for resignations...  Seems like everytime NY starts to look
   like they're  heading for the top of the NBA, their GM makes a boneheaded
   decision and they slip.

   This acquisition should bump Boston back up into the Elite of the NBA.

Actually X had told the Knicks all summer that he would resign when the 
salary cap money was used up.  The GM had an agreement with Falk (X's agent)
to that effect.  The Knicks were planning to pay X more money than 
Boston is.  X (or Falk) did not even give the Knicks a chance to counter.

I don't know if that is stupid or just betrayed.  I think that Falk got his
man a worse deal to help Falk in future negotiations with other players (don't
mess with me, David Falk, or else...).

It made total sense for the Knicks to use up the cap before signing a free
agent especially when the free agent said he would wait.

Damn it....

As for putting Boston in the elite, remember that X had a lousey season last
year --- the only good play he had was in the playoffs.  Hoping that he gets
worse...

A Celt hating Knick fan in Boston.....

--
ah

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"It was just a job.  It wasn't any special interest in consumer
 affairs.  I needed a paycheck and the Attorney General said that I
 would be best to go down there, because he knew I was anti-consumer."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle, remembering his job as
                   chief investigator in the consumer products
                   division of the Indiana Attorney General's office.
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Pacers "bad" trade
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:19:58 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Sep10.165609.27016@cci632.cci.com> dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce) writes:
>  - The TWolves unload the man who I think is the most over-hyped lil known 
>	guards (I know its an oxymoron). His D and his lack of FT % hurts.


Thats the 2nd person who has knocked Pooh's defense, is he really that bad,
I certainly never thought he was. It was he who guarded Hardaway on the 
0-17 night(although he took no credit for the disaster), and he was always
a tough defender at UCLA. In the games against Hardaway, he either holds
his own or outplays him.

He's also younger than Michael Williams, and going from a halfcourt team
to an open court system should add to his stats.

Of course I have no bias to former UCLA players, no sir, not me.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I'm pacing myself sir"
                          Bill Murray in Stripes
********************************************************************************
From: rlcarr@animato.network23.com (Rich Carreiro)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: X in da Gahden??
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 12 Sep 92 12:42:38 EDT
Organization: The Other Side of Life

In article <1992Sep11.091127.6431@ecst.csuchico.edu> adamw@ecst.csuchico.edu (James Adam Ward) writes:
> 	First of all:  X is a man.  Celtics need somebody just like him.  But X 
>in Boston??? just doesnt seem right.  I just can't see X in a Celtic jersey. 
>Can people please give me your ideas about X in Boston.  I kinda laughed when I
>saw it on ESPN (the trade).  No doubt Boston needed him.  I guess I just have
>to get used to it.  Give me your comments about this trade.

(1) remember to hit <CR> every now and then.  Your post was a single long
    line.
(2) I have no comments about the "trade," as it wasn't a trade.  X was
    an unrestricted free agent.  The Celts simply signed him.  The Knicks
    got nothing.
(3) I think it's a good acquisition.
(4) What's so funny about him playing for Boston, anyway?

-- 
Rich Carreiro                                  Home: (401)841-8514
rlcarr@animato.network23.com
uunet.uu.net!animato!rlcarr
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: matt@ssehou.houst.sgi.com (Matt Carey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Hakeem trade rumors
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:52:28 GMT
Reply-To: matt@ssehou.houst.sgi.com (Matt Carey)
Organization: sgi

The best and most common Hakeem trade rumor I've heard is a three way trade 
between Houston, LA Clippers, and Orlando.

Houston sends Hakeem and Sleepy Floyd to LA; LA sends Danny Manning, Vaught,
another player, and 3 draft picks to Houston; and Houston sends two draft picks
to Orlando for Stanley Roberts.

Also, John Moores is considering buying the Rockets. He offered something like
$60M. Charlie Thomas countered with $80M. What's interesting is that Moores
gave $55M to The University of Houston last year (where Hakeem went to college),most of which went to the athletic department. So, if Moores can buy the team,
will he want Hakeem to stay? Will Hakeem stay? Will Steve Patterson get the
axe? (I sure hope so).

Stay tuned, folks. ;^)


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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