HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Centrality of Men/Women (Was Re: Inher
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:16:33 GMT
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 7959@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
*In article <l6oi8iINN4pr@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM*
*janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
*
**In article 16836@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
**(samuel.saal) writes:
*
**# In article <l6du5tINNfp6@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM#
**#janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
*
**##                   What do you mean when you say "an Orthodox wife
**## ..constantly performs domestic duties which are religious in nature and
**## governed by religious law, with a minimum intrusion of the
**## non-religious world"?  Cooking?  Cleaning?  Taking care of kids?  Do
**#                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
**## you consider these to be activities more religious in nature than her
**## husband's studying or davening?
*
**# As a subset of the things permitted and/or required, yes.
*
*
*You asked about a few tasks that _seem_ to be stereotypical "women's"
*work.  ...  Halachah mandates a role for both men
*and women in raising children).  Thus, my subset statement is only a
*pointer to the far more extensive issue of understanding what the
*differences are between men, women, and other members of society and
*their respective roles, obligations, and responsibilities.


What I asked the original poster was whether he considered household
tasks such as cooking and cleaning to be more religious in nature than
studying or davening.  It was the original poster who mandated the
roles of men and women in doing household tasks vs. studying or
davening.


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman)
Subject: Re: Israeli Arab factor in elections
Reply-To: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:23:58 GMT

According to the Jerusalem Report, the Arab voting pattern was:

               % of Arab Vote,       Total Votes 
Democratic Front: 23.1%              62,247
Labor:            20.4%              906,126
Arab Democrats:   15.3%              40,799
Progressive List:  6.3%(not in JR)   16,753

If I assume that only Arabs voted for the Arab parties, we see
that there were ~266,000 Arab voters out of 2.6 Million total votes.  
This means that there were  54K votes for Labor, and, at most, 
40K votes for Meretz.  (The JR only listed the top 3 parties).
So, the total number of seats in the coalition, due to the Arab
vote is ~5, (for ~90K votes).  Even if I assume that Meretz got
15% of the Arab vote, I have only accounted for 80%.  In the
last election, Likud received 10% of the Arab vote, so it is quite
likely they received the same this time giving them an extra
seat.  Therefore, the net gain of the Left, due to the Arab sector
was 4 seats.  This is hardly the the 10 seats Sharon was talking
about.  Not that any of this makes much of a difference, since the
Arabs pay taxes, and have the right to vote, just like everyone else.

Gadi





T
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: afwendy@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (WENDY WARTNICK)
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 28 Jul 1992 16:01 EST  

In article <1992Jul27.010618.23155@unixland.natick.ma.us>, sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes...
>afwendy@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (WENDY WARTNICK) writes:
> 
>>In article <dfs.711663729@ro>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes...
>>>In <1992Jul20.181428.2845@unixland.natick.ma.us>
>>>sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes:
> 
>>> 

> 
>Just for the record: The above quote is David's not mine. The way Wendy
>posted this, I believe some readers could have mistakenly concluded that
>the above comments were posted by me.
> 
>Thank you.
> 
>Sharon 

Whoa!  sorry about that, Sharon!  Didn't mean to nail that to you!

					wendy

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: 0005277658@mcimail.com (Natalie Cohen)
Subject: PA, USA: Atty needed
Reply-To: <0005277658@mcimail.com>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:35:56 GMT

Apologies to the net; I can't set my software to distribute to Pennsylvania
only. But if you're not in PA, just skip this.

PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY NEEDED TO SET UP NOT FOR PROFIT CORPORATION

Actually apologies to PA people too.

I've been trying to find a local attorney to help me set up a Jewish
education not-for-profit corp that will meet all state and federal
requirements for receiving tax deductible donations.

I'm in the Stroudsberg/Scranton area, and local attorneys haven't been
returning calls. I imagine tho that anyone in the state can help -- for the
normal fee, of course -- by using a combo of email and snail-mail. I really
need help with this, so please... if you know anyone...

Email responses to

Natalie Cohen
5277658@mcimail.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RELIGIONS?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 21:04:40 GMT


Lest we forget...

        Mormon:  This shit is going to happen again.
      Hedonism:  There's nothing quite like a good shit.
       Moonies:  Only happy shit really happens.
      Stoicism:  This shit is good for me.
  Unitarianism:  It's not the shit that matters.  It's the process.
     Calvinism:  Shit happens because you didn't work hard enough.
  Hari Krishna:  Shit happens.  Rama Rama.

-- 
"The tree of liberty must occasionally be nourished by the blood
of tyrants and of patriots."                    Thomas Jefferson
"Hello? Information?  Would you please give me the home phone of
Pat Buchanan?...Yes.  His address as well, thank you very much."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: society as the basis for religion (was Re: What is Jewish religion?)
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:14:37 GMT

>|> In article <LERNER.92Jul21174434@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>|> -> Well, here we are again.  The term "ultra-orthodox" is horrible and
>|> -> derogatory, as if it says "excessively".  How about just "Orthodox"?
>|> -> Is there a better term?

When people ask me whether I am O, C or R, I respond with religious.  The
need to pigeonhole people to the O/C/R boundaries coupled with terms like
ultra, modern, not-so, or turbo, does not convey any useful information.

"religious" is usually the answer that is really being looked for anyway.  
-- 
Dan Shimoff               Am Yisrael          \ 
Phone: (212) 602-6798     B'Eretz Yisrael       A recipe for success.
Address: shdan@tudor.com  Al Pi Torat Yisrael / Read any Kook books lately?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:26:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.022827.27594@wixer.cactus.org>
lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:

>lazarus@wixer.cactus.org responds to 

>>The Torah declares that the murderer must be taken from the altar
>>of Hashem if necessary to carry out the sentence.

>Nice twist.  I was taught that you could break Shabbat, even a
>fast, if your life was at risk.  And what about the story of a
>father and son in the desert?  If the son has the water, he is

Your Jewish education is sorely lacking; your humanistic education may
not be, but the two are far from synonymous.  First of all, though your
examples are correct, they are incorrectly applied.

>directed to use it all in order that he might live, rather than
>risk both their lives.  I have always been more interested in the
>spirit of Judaism, rather than the strict letter of the law.  Too
>often, the Torah contradicts itself or at least brings items into
>question.  And while the Torah is an important _part_ of Judaism,
>Jews do not rely entirely on it for our law.

>>According to the Torah, the death penalty is a mandated punishment
>>under the appropriate circumstances.

>Nice bit of cyclic logic.  "The Torah says so, therefore it is." 
>A "punishment" is intended to 'correct' - the death penalty does no
>such thing.  Furthermore, since when is a punishment the same type
>of action taken by a criminal?

You asked what the Torah says and now that you have been told, you reject
it as "cyclic logic" (I presume you mean "circular").  Why did you bother
asking?
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Death Penalty & Jewish Law
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:13:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.022827.27594@wixer.cactus.org>
lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:

>lazarus@wixer.cactus.org responds to 

>>The implementation of a penalty is not an argument against the
>>penalty.  If the results are racially skewed thaen perhaps we
>>should apply it *more* to all the criminals convicted of capital
>>crimes, not less.

>Let's kill even more people?  Interesting thought, but how do you
>intend to accomplish this gruesome task?  "We" do not sentence
>people to death - prosecutors and district attorneys do.  A lot of
>them are from racist communities who don't care about racial
>fairness.  And we are not just talking about the "implementation of
>a penalty," we are taking about killing people.  I feel that
>killing people that are not an IMMEDIATE and DIRECT threat is
>abominable.  Would you suggest we return to torturing people? 
>Surely we could ensure that such torture was meted out fairly to
>all?  Certain acts are so brutal that no matter how much we try to
>de-brutalize it we are unsuccessful.

What's with all the non-sequitors? Where did anyone call for torture?  The
comment was simply that the death penalty must be carefully applied and
you go off on a tirade?!

Chill!

The remainder of Lax's illogical tirade deleted.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 06:02:48 GMT

What is the Jewish religion?

It is the longest running squabble in human history. :-)


--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Originator: schwartz@baba
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:58:59 GMT


In article <1992Jul24.165949.5732@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.155128.11311@nynexst.com>, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:
> |> 
> |> In article <1992Jul24.131308.6019@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
> |> > In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
> |> > 
> |> > >Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.
> |> > >--
> |> > >Yigal Arens
> |> > >USC/ISI    
> |> > 
> |> > Isn't USC in US-occupied Mexican territory?
> |> > -- 
> |> > Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
> |> 
> |> No, Sam, it's in the European-occupied Native American territories.
> 
> 	No, both of you are wrong.  It is Human-occupied Buffalo 
>	territories.

Actually, the protons are occupying quark territories.

And I got the final word.  :-)
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)

In article <1992Jul28.123835.26959@tudorct.com>, shdan@tudorct (Dan Shimoff) writes:
>How do mohels get their first gigs?

There are some amateur mohels who start with their own sons.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:13131 talk.politics.mideast:17298
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Cheap Books!!!
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:24:25 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Followup-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: friedenb@kira.egr.msu.edu

I found a local book store which specializes in over-stocked books,
and sells them at a fraction of the retail price.  I have made a list
of the books with Jewish or Mideast Politics topics currently in stock.  

I will purchase them and ship them anywhere in the US, Canada or
Israel in a water-resistant package for the price stated below +
packaging and postage.  Packaging and postage depend on the dimensions
and weight of the book.  In the US, an average book is $1.50 for
packaging and $1.50 for postage (Book Rate).

The books at this store are constantly changing.  Send me mail
immediately to get one.  I'll post new lists as their stock changes.

All books are brand new and in perfect condition.

Because I think that it may be illegal to make a profit off of the
net, the sale prices are the exact price which I pay for the books.
Since I am making no profit, and thus the cost is lower, I ask
purchasers to give 10% of the cost of the book to charity.

Gedaliah Friedenberg                        friedenb@egr.msu.edu
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   

Title			Author	    		      retail price   cost
============================================================================
Israel In America	Jacob Neusner			$ 8.95	    $ 2.98
Soft Cover

Still Small Voices	John & Janet Wallach		$18.95	    $ 2.98
(Subtitle: Untold Stories Behind Violence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip)
Hard Cover; forward by Teddy Kollek, mayor of Jerusalem

INTIFADA		Zachary Lockman and Joel Beinin	$15.00	    $ 3.98
Soft Cover

The Legal Status of Arabs in Israel  David Kretzman	$26.50	    $ 6.98
Soft Cover

Falasha Anthology	Wolf Leslau			$13.00	    $ 3.98
Soft Cover

The Prophets vol. II	Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel	$14.95	    $ 2.98
Soft Cover, Slightly Damaged

Response to Modernity	Michael A. Meyer		$12.95      $ 3.98
(Subtitle: History of the Reform Movement)
Soft Cover

Essays in Jewish Intellectual History  Alexander Altman	$40.00      $10.98
Hard Cover

The Book of J 		Harold Bloom			$21.95      $10.00
Hard Cover

Passover Haggada 	(biblical)			$10.95	    $ 5.00
Soft Cover; Illustrated in Color by Marc Chagall

The Colplete American-Jewish Cookbook Bertha Kahn Bishov$19.95      $ 6.98
(Subtitle: Over 3,500 tested kosher recipes-and they taste good)
Soft Cover - 700 pages

The Complete Prose of Woody Allen  Woody Allen		$24.95	    $11.99
Hard Cover
From: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: 5% bugs in ketchup!
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:28:00 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu ( Gedaliah Friedenberg )
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: friedenb@kira.egr.msu.edu

In article <84242@netnews.upenn.edu> rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:

>Thus a pot of soup with even a single
>whole bug in it is treif, even if the pot is the size of a room.

This holds true for "leafy" vegetables as well.  Home-grown lettuce
(for instance) or lettuce purchased at a "farmer's market" must be
soaked in salt water and thoroughly washed to rid of any bugs.
Lettuce that is purchased in modern supermarkets has been treated with
chemicals, subjected to lamps which kill bugs and scrubbed; and is
therefore OK to eat without concern.

In Israel, many restauraunts (including Off the Square - a personal
favorite) serve only hydroponically grown lettuce (in a bug-free
environment).  This alleviates any kashrus concern for the customers.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Why I gave up on my People (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:09:58 GMT

In <1992Jul28.140730.8182@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>Tell you what.  For now, I'm going to bias my concern (and giving) to
>Jewish organizations and efforts until non-Jews give 1/10th to Yeshivot
>and other Jewish organizations what I _already_ give to them.

Sigh.  Give to Jewish organizations that observe the halacha that
needy non-Jews are taken care of together with needy Jews (can't say I
recall hearing that we are exempt from this if they don't help us).
Why do I get the feeling that an expression more extreme than "black
and white" is needed in this group.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire universe		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very strange hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is not all that ***.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Divine Intervention (was Re: What is Jewish religion?)
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:27:44 GMT
Summary: what constitutes proof of Divine intervention

In article <1992Jul22.210717.11571@wam.umd.edu>,
aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

> In article <1992Jul22.183547.16457@cbfsb.cb.att.com>  
> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

> > "culture", or "history".  This is the reason we refuse to let the
> > missionaries destroy us by any means whether

> > "with flame or sword or whip
> >  or calls to xian fellowship"

> This is assuming that there is God and assuming that he does everything  
> right, not like when he allowed 6 millon Jews to die in labor camps.
> You refuse misionaries destroy you because you believe on a different  
> principle.

Do you expect Divine intervention for all the world's (potential)
tragedies (Jewish and non-Jewish) as proof of the existence of G-d?  If
not, how many inverventions would consititute (adequate) proof?  Would
yesterday's bus accident, in which 13 retarded people escaped serious
injury (the accident was serious enough to kill the driver) be enough
proof?

How do you know when a tragedy _didn't_ happen and when it would have
happened had not G-d intervened?  I drove to work today and drove to a
restaurant for lunch in a rain storm.  Thank G-d, the tragedy of a car
accident did not occur in either trip.  G-d must have done something
right (my enemies wishes notwithstanding :-).
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Discovery
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:50:52 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

I attended a lecture on Codes in the Torah at my shul on Tu Bishevat,
given by some Lubavitch rabbi from Brooklyn Heights.  He approached it
as a glorified form of Gematria, saying outright that he was not trying
to convert anyone.  He gave the usual round of examples and claims of
mathematical veracity.  I brought some non-religious friends to the
lecture who almost broke out laughing during the speech, the examples were
so far-fetched and the print so small on the slides that it was impossible
to verify.

    I have tried some samples word searches on other texts, with some
programs obtained from L'Chaim BBS by way of israel.nysernet.org.
In the larger sample, "Shneur", the name of the "Alter Rebbe", the
founder of Lubavitch Hasidism, is found beginning at letter 29767, 
skipping every 82 letters.  "Alter" is found at 5851 skipping 92, while
"Rebbe" is found at 5713 skipping 111.  Note that the positioning of
Alter and Rebbe is intertwined, showing an "obvious" intention to hide
the name of the founder of Lubavitch in the text.  What was the text?
"Through the Looking Glass", by that famous Lubavitch Anglican priest, 
Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, stored in machine-readable form at wsmr-simtel20.

In sum, then, you can find anything you want, at Discovery's restaurant.
As my friend who went to the lecture with me said, it's like throwing a
dart at a wall, and then drawing the target around the point where it lands.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu
From: mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Refrigerators In "Stranger Among Us" (SPOILER)
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:57:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: acf9.mannj.712342659
Organization: New York University

schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:

>[...] horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>> [...] dsg@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (david.s.green) writes:
>> >
>> >I heard that one of the original suggestions for the title was:
>> >
>> >"Dances With Jews"
>> 
>> No, no; that's:
>> 
>> "Dances with Wolffs"

>Anyone for "Fried Green Latkes"?

One of the critics, I forget which, suggested "Vitness".
--

Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<LERNER.92Jul21122239@division.cs.columbi
	<FAIGIN.92Jul21103148@soldan.aero.org> <54931@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:48:59 GMT

>>Many Reform Jews (of those that are serious) do indeed keep Shabbat.
>
>I have argued myself for a serious observance of Shabbath, but not 
>what the Orthodox call the proper observance.  One must reinterpret
>and discard.
 I'm glad that you support serious Shabbos observance.  Why however
 "must" one "reinterpret and discard" as you say?   

>Where does it state in the Written Torah that circumcision is to be performed
>by a mohel?  Where does it state anything about the nature of the ceremony?
>From Joshua, it seems that this commandment was not kept in the desert, and
>I can see no danger in doing it there.  
 The halachas of circumcision have been brought down in the Gemorah.  
 They can also be derived no doubt purely from the written Torah but
 this requires a cholar of tremendous erudition.  Please note that I have
 not answered your question chapter-and-verse for obvious reasons, and
 if you seriously want to find where then I can suggest several people
 who could tell you.    
--
/M