From: jsm@rosencrantz.osf.org (John S. Morris)
Subject: Are BMWs form or function?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:52:07 GMT

As 99% of rec.moto hits the 'k' or sighs, "not more brand bashing and
counter-bashing"! IT'S MORE FLAME AND COUNTERFLAME IN TRUE DoD FASHION.....

Well, not quite:

In article <1993Jan11.231055.13219@linus.mitre.org> crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) writes:
>
>I have no inherent ill feelings toward BMWs.  But I don't believe anyone buys
>them for their advanced technology (aside from ABS perhaps).  It's my opinion
>that BMW has made numerous design decisions in recent years which placed form
>before function -- style over performance.  If any of the R100RS/K100RS/K1

Ah ha!  OK we're talking "opinions" here and they appear to be unfounded (*my*
opinion now!). As always I seek enlightment about the error of my ways. 8-)

Here are some facts:

Both the K's and new R
have:			ABS
			motor management
			fuel injection
			shaft drive with paralever rear suspension
			Fiamm horns (not advanced, but who else has them?)
			recyclable plastics
			heated grips (optional)
			catalyctic converter
			emergency flashers
			electronic instruments
			accessory sockets
			self-canceling signals

The R bike also has:	non-telescopic fork
			adjustable ergonomics
			
So what do other brands have for other advanced technology? Honda has 
traction control. Ducati has carbon fiber. Yamaha has the RADD? What 
else???? So what is it that BMW *doesn't* have?

>that BMW has made numerous design decisions in recent years which placed form
>before function -- style over performance.  If any of the R100RS/K100RS/K1
>bikes really generates 100 HP, I'd be surprised.  I see Beemers as the

OK - you're surprised! The 100 HP is documented in my neighbors K1100LT 
TUG evaluation. I'd like to hear about the "decisions" you know of. The
K1 was an experiment. They never planned to build more than a handful a
month. However BMW learned from that experience. I exepct to see the K1 
lessons learned exploited in the R1100RS.

How about all the reviews I read about Japanese bikes which say, "there's
nothing new this year except for different graphics"? Does that qualify as
advanced technology?

>It wasn't my intent to denigrate BMWs because they lack HP.  However, you're
>the first person I ever met who was _happy_ his bike had only 58 HP.
>(Oh NO!!!  They've upped the power this year!!!  DAMN.)

A bit of an interpretation. I am happy that the bike has "sufficient"
HP for me to have fun. I don't truly care whether the bike has 58HP,
5HP or 150HP. I don't consider HP spec sheets as a criteria for purchase -
I ride the bike to see how it feels, and subjectively evaluate the way it 
looks.

>than could be available?  The very fact that BMW riders talk of adding 
>expensive (and usually peaky) turbos to their already very expensive
>machines says little for the comparative advantage of buying less bike
>than you really want, but spending more for it.  That doesn't sound
>entirely logical to me.  It sounds very much like a matter of taste.
>
I think you missed the point again. I don't know anyone who has a turbo,
I mention it to illustrate the fact that the Beemer motors can handle
the stress - they're overbuilt or rather built to last. That's functionality
many riders don't consider.

>Not really true.  Both Kawasaki and Honda currently have fielded 650s which 
>are direct competitors to the GS.  (I'll bet they're both _much_ less expensive
>and at least as fast/fun/capable as the GS. :-) ) 
>
I don't know the Honda. The Kawasaki I know someone might consider close
to the GS is the KL650 which is not what I'd call a road bike. It's a 
street legal enduro. I can't imagine someone in the market for a GS
considering the KL.

>With my 900 Ninja having cost $2500 (used) and a comparable used R100RS 
>costing 2-3 times as much, I'd say a _lot_ of people buy the japanese bikes 
Hmmmmmm.....a friend of mine bought a used R100RS for about $3000. There's
lots in the MOA adverts for that price. The economics don't wash. You
buy a Ninja for $2500 and two years later it's worth $1000. You buy the
$3000 R100RS and two years later its worth $2500. Seems like we've had this
discussion before......

Be serious - you bought the Ninja to go fast. The people who would buy the
R100RS would buy it to go far.

But wait a minute, we're on to something here. You say you ride a NINJA? 
And it still has the NINJA decal? And do you feel like an adult? 8-)

============================================================================
           Jono    DoD: 316    Beemers: '85 K100RS '92 R100GS 
    Voice: +1 (617) 621-8739 Fax: +1 (617) 621-0584 Email: jsm@osf.org
           "Too much of a good thing is never enough." -Luba
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles