HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boyd@gauss (Mickey Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: (PISTOL) Someone please describe the GLOCK trigger pull/action
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:46 GMT
Organization: fsu.edu

In article <1993Jan27.063135.24074@den.mmc.com> you wrote:

# Would someone please describe the GLOCK trigger pull / action.  Is it DA?
# DAO?  Single action?  Single and a half action?  (i.e. not quite
# single, not quite double)

It is a half and half.  Part of the force needed to compress the striker 
spring is obtained by racking the slide back about 1/2".  The rest is obtained 
from the trigger pull.

# I understand it has a light trigger pull?  5.5 lbs or so?
# Is it smooth?  Does it break clean as glass?  If  not, how clean?

It is a bit mushy, with some overtravel, but I do not consider it to be "bad".
I prefer a nice clean 4 pound 1911A1 trigger, thought . . .

There is a stiffer "new york" trigger unit (made up for the NYC Transit 
Authority folks, I believe), and a target unit that only comes with the 
19L (compensated) model.  They will not sell it as an accessory. 

# Once you rack the slide to load a round, is the firing pin physically blocked
# from hitting the primer?  Is the firing pin sort of half-cocked, the trigger
# pull finishes cocking then releases the firing pin?

Sort of half cocked.

# Is there an internal striker / hammer?  or is the firing pin fired only using
# a spring. 

There is a striker, contained in the slide.  There is no hammer in the frame
of the gun.

# Is the firing stroke (i.e. trigger pull) the same from shot to shot (esp.
# 1st shot to 2nd) or does it change?

It does not change.  Very consistant.

# Is there a good book that describes the glock's action?

There is a Glock book out there, but I do not know its title.

# What is a summary of the different models?

17  - full sized 9mm, 17 rounds
17L - full sized 9mm with comp, target trigger unit, 17 rounds
19  - chopped 9mm, 15 rounds
20  - full sized 10mm, 15 rounds
21  - full sized .45ACP, 13 BIG rounds
22  - full sized .40S&W, 15 rounds
23  - chopped .40S&W, 13 rounds

I would like to see them make a chopped .45ACP model.  Anyone know if there 
are plans for such?


--
******************************************************************************
*                                Mickey Boyd                                 *
*                           Systems Administrator                            *
*              Florida State University Mathematics Department               *
* email:  boyd@math.fsu.edu  Office:  (904) 644-7167  Pager:  (904) 657-6425 *
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From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: I now understand the cult
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:12 GMT


James P. Callison writes:
#Oh, no, no ,no, it's aesthetically beautiful, as well. It's no P210, but it's
#no Colt 2000, either... :-)

I think your grammar needs work. You are correct that the sheet metal SIG is
uglier than the Colt 2000, but you phrased it wrong.

:)



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."

Xref: sparky rec.guns:20314 talk.politics.guns:27174
From: v111qheg@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (P.VASILION)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: [Rifle] Floating a barrel?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:02 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo

In article <1993Jan25.184428.12931@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rinehart) writes...
# 
#     Howdy gun guys,
# 
#     Does anyone know of any good books or magazines that have articles about 
#"floating" a barrel? I would just like to learn something about it and maybe 
#check out my equipment. I will be using the Public Library so if you would send
#me any titles that might be in there I would really appreciate it.
# 

	You cant really "float a barrel" unless the gun is designed for it. A
floating barrel is one that does not touch the stock at any point other than
the action, where it would be bolted. The Anschutz guns are held to the stock
with one or two bolts, for example, and have floating barrels. If your gun
can accomidate such a mod., then simply remove the wood from under the barrel.

	You may also find that glass bedding the action will reduce vibrations
caused by the firing of the ammo. Speaking of ammo, I reccomend the Lapua
Dominator .22 cartriges.

Good luck, 

Peter Vasilion

Anschutz - dont leave home without it.
From: slkdh@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm home defense (?)
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:39:53 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

I need to find some GOOD, QUOTABLE articles on the best 9mm load for
home defense.  Thanks in advance.

Please E-mail to me, I'm not able to read the newsgroup that often.

E-mail: slkdh@cc.usu.edu

			Thom

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that someone isn't out to get you."
From: mfolenta@pica.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: PISTOL: 10mm Suggestions and the Spirit Of rec.guns
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:50 GMT


     First, I think the idea of the keyword is marginally good but we
 do have to use the KISS priciple here.  Notice the "one word subject
 descriptor located within the field of the Subject line".  

     As Martin David Frankel suggested, just a single word prefacing the
 body of the Subject line, with:

	PISTOL
	RIFLE  
	RELOAD
  and Other/Misc is anything without a specific Subject Keyword.  If you
 use it, great; and if not, then there is no change from current operation
 in this "Kinder, gentler newsgroup".

     OK, now to the real reason (Ha!) for this post.

     I am thinking of getting a new toy/goodie/shiny doodad. (Awk!  Mike
 sees new shiny thing.  Awk!  Mike wants new shiny thing.  Said in a 
 'parrot' kind of voice.)  The lastest trinket to catch my eye (Ouch!  I
 hate getting my eye caught on the edge of a gun) is a Colt Double Eagle
 full sized in 10mm.  Why?  I don't have a 10mm handgun yet :-}

     So, does _anybody_ out there have a Colt Double Eagle?  Anybody?

 .. What are your general impressions of the gun?

 .. What model do you have?  (Full size 5", Combat Commander 4 1/4", or
     Officer's 3 1/2" or 3 1/2" lightweight)

 .. What caliber do you have?  (.45 acp, 10mm, or .40 S&W {blech} )

 .. What sights do you have?  (Fixed 3-dot combat or Colt adjustable rear sight)

 .. How do you like the gun? 

 .. What do you use it for?  (Duty gun, concealed carry, target, plinking,
     home defense, hunting, "just because"?)

 .. I handled a full-sized .45 acp.  There is just the decocker, right?  No
     magazine disconnect safety (yippie) and no external safety, but are
     there any internal trigger/hammer safeties?

     Send me e-mail and I'll summarize and post the replies in about a week.

     Thanks!  

     ps:  I'm straightening up the replies I got to my question
          about .44 loads, to be summarized and posted in about 
          another week also.  Thanks guys!

       ***** These are my opinions.  Get your own. :-) *****
      Michael Folenta          | U.S. Army ARDEC
   Future Weapons Branch       | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000
  email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3880  [AV 880-3880]
From: David.Bernard@Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns used in assassinations
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:23 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems


#* BTW a show last night on Fox said that the FBI declined to do
#any tests on James Earl Ray's rifle to determine if has even 
#been fired since the last time it was cleaned (it was found 
#moments after the murder), or to see if its rifling matches 
#that on the fully intact bullet they recovered from MLK.

#According to the show, to this day they refuse to allow any 
#tests of this sort to be done on the rifle.  "The case is
#closed", I guess.

Didn't Ray plead guilty to the crime?  If so, there was no reason
for anyone to do any further testing.

Note- Ray, in his new book, denies having been the trigger man, and
in fact anything more than a patsy (while admittedly a two-bit hood).

	Dave
From: Harry.Johnson@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Harry Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Best stopping power in handguns?
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:40:04 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my posts of a few
weeks ago on recommendations for a defense handun.  I ended up buying a
Glock 21, the .45 caliber model.  I've gone to the range a couple of times
and been very pleased with the way the gun performs.

I recently picked up the Guns & Ammo annual and found something in the
back that I hadn't seen before - ballistics tables!  Thinking that this
would truly demonstrate to me the wisdom in choosing a .45 over a 9mm
(which was considerably cheaper from Glock, anyway) I looked over the
energy of various .45 and 9mm loads.  I was amazingly surprised to see
that there are a number of 9mm loads that have greater muzzle and 50 yard
energy than quite a few .45 loads.  This was very strange to me, since the
.45 had, by all testimonials, way more stopping power than a 9mm.

On further examination, I found that nearly all .40 cals and 10mm had
quite a bit more energy than even the strongest .45 that was tested (peak
10mm listed energy at muzzle was 684 ft-lbs vs. peak .45 energy of 534
ft-lbs, for instance).  When I looked in my Glock manual, I found that the
manufacturer listed the .45 at 460 J of muzzle energy vs. 500 J for all
other guns, except the 10mm, which was listed at 750 J, making the .45 the
least energetic of any Glock pistol. 

My question is:  what is the relationship between energy and stopping
power?  Due to its larger size, does the .45 gain over these higher energy
rounds in stopping power, or are the smaller rounds actually better?  I
expect there to be additional factors to consider besides sheer energy in
figuring out how good a slug is at taking down an attacker, but at what
point can you say, "Well, that's pretty big, but this one's just so much
(faster/more energetic) that this one is superior?"

Or have I asked some sort of age-old debate question that has no clear
answer?  Any replies are welcome.

Harry
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: good, bad & ugly
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:44 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <C195pM.2tn@newcastle.ac.uk> H.S.Doyle@newcastle.ac.uk (H.S. Doyle) writes:
#
#The meanest-looking gun has to be the GEC Minigun (7.62mm NATO). All you have
#to do is look down the six barrels to start shaking.
#
aaaaaaaah, just when i had lost hope in all you gun buffs :-)

btw, anyone mention the glock as ugliest? :-)))

flame on, fellow netters.......


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: keithg@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com (Keith Glasson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: To Drop Or Not To Drop ( was: Re: To buy or not to buy ? )
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:57:03 GMT
Organization: work

Michael A. Atkinson (asbestos@nwu.edu) wrote:
:(brevity strikes:)
 
: And then I woke up.  (sigh)
: 
 (and strikes again:)
: might as well give up on me at once.  I told her I was going to be
: completely inflexible.  I meant it.  She agreed, and now is not so
: anti-gun.  (My hope is that for a wedding present I will give her a NRA
: Life Membership, and that she'll be thrilled.) 

	And then you woke up again? Giving her a NRA membership for a 
	wedding present, and hoping she'll be thrilled, is asking a bit
	much. Good luck!

	-keith
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns used in assassinations
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:15 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <9301231457.AA24104@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Here's a rather morbid question:  what were the makes and models
#of guns used in various assassinations and attempts?  For instance,
#an Italian Carcano was used on JFK; what was used in the murders
#of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy, and the
#attempts on Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan?

If memory serves, Bobby Kennedy was killed with a .22 revolver. (Which
proves that even a .22 can be a very deadly caliber...)

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: I now understand the cult
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:42:16 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9301201657.AA07226@optilink.com> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
}... I am beginning to understand the cult of
}the SIG.  It's esthetically hopeless, but ergonomically beautiful.  ...

}Now, if only it wasn't almost twice as expensive as most of its competitors...

Think of it as only half the cost of a Walther. (-:
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: boyd@gauss (Mickey Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: loading cast bullets for 9mm para
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:00:46 GMT
Organization: fsu.edu

Tracy Cerise (tracy@ms.uky.edu) wrote:
# I have recently purchased a Ruger P89DC 9mm pistol and have enjoyed it
# thoroughly so far.  What I would like to know is if anyone has experience
# loading lead cast bullets for 9mm semi-auto pistols.  I am interested in
# finding out about any caveats or problems (like jams) that may occur, or
# any other pitfalls to be aware of.  Also if I could be directed to a good
# manual that has information on loading cast bullets for pistols I would
# appreciate it.

Lead has a tendency to jam more, perhaps due to a higher frictional 
coefficient than copper (?).  Unless you get some good hard cast bullets, 
they will lead like hell in a 9mm (or any other high vel/high pressure 
caliber).  The hard ones are more expensive, due to the higher content of 
tin.  Also, it is difficult to tell if they are "hard enough" just by looking
at them.  Some of the better mail order places advertise the hardness, but 
then the shipping will kill you (unless you buy a bunch, like 5k bullets).
I have seen a lot of soft junk bullets in local gun shops.  Stay away from 
swaged lead bullets in a 9mm (they are very very soft).  Typically, harder 
bullets are very shiny.  Also, look for perfect casts.  Stay away from 
bullets that have big mold lines cast into them, or that have imperfect 
sprue cuts (at the base of the bullet).

As to manuals, I highly recommend Lyman's.  It has a good section on reloading
techniques, and they list loads for a bunch of powders.  Usually, there are 
fliers in/near the reloading section of gun stores that list loads for that 
manufacturers powders (Accurate Arms distributes a nice booklet).  Also, I 
would recommend collecting as many manuals/booklets as possible, and compare 
them before throwing any powder.  Typos can happen, after all.

--
******************************************************************************
*                                Mickey Boyd                                 *
*                           Systems Administrator                            *
*              Florida State University Mathematics Department               *
* email:  boyd@math.fsu.edu  Office:  (904) 644-7167  Pager:  (904) 657-6425 *
******************************************************************************
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self defense hypothetical
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:19 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <8473@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> erico@squirrel.pen.tek.com (Eric Oosterhof) writes:
[some cites missing]
###I would have to guess that the originator might mean a situation where
###perhaps the act *was* self defense, but the being-armed was unlawful.
##
##     C) Shoot the thugs, leave quickly knowing that the police will be looking
##for enemies of the thugs. There won't be any fingerprints on the brass to even
##make you a suspect.

#	All right, let's think about this.  I'ma walkin' down the street,
#let's say Main Street, USA, and I'm approached by some individuals who
#obviously intend to cause serious harm to me and/or my family.  OK, I
#shoot them and follow scenario C; I leave knowing that there won't be
#any fingerprints.  What's wrong with this scenario?  
#	First, while I'm not a lawyer, I've seen them on TV.  I would
#suspect that this is not a Good Idea, and is probably illegal; you are
#fleeing to avoid prosecution for illegally carrying a concealed
#weapon, at the very least.  
[...]
#	Have we caught a clue yet??  Speaking for myself, and others
#here in rec.guns, we're supposed to be the Good Guys (TM)  That means
#that we try to do things Right, as in moral, as in something we can
#feel good about.  I can't feel good about shooting someone and leaving
#them to die.  I can't feel good about trying to leave no fingerprints
#on my weapon.  While I don't entirely trust the legal system in this
#country, if I have to shoot someone, I will stick around and try to do
#things Right.  
#	It seems to me that the people put into these situations, who
#DO stick around and tell their side of the story, aren't thrown in
#jail for murder.  
#	Maybe effort should be put into avoiding this situation.  Get
#a license to carry.

Yes, but Eric, you're in Oregon, where there is a recognized right to 
self-defense, which has been put to the test in the courts, as well as
a permit to carry system that works (a non-resident provision would help,
but otherwise....)

In the situation I was proposing, just as there was *no* doubt on Our
Protagonist's mind that firing was justified, there is no doubt that
if identified, he *will* be arrested, felony convicted (with all the 
effects that implies for the rest of his life), and imprisoned.  This
is the other end of the scale from civilized states, but not unimaginable.

Again, it's just a hypothetical situation, but I'm curious what y'all
think....

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Lloyd D Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SSP-91 from Magnum Research
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:56 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

In article <1993Jan19.204845.25431@ke4zv.uucp> gary%ke4zv.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#In article <9301131148.AA03597@pulsar.cs.hh.ab.com> oconnell@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (JOHN O'CONNELL EXT.3703) writes:
##
##
##Has anyone ever used or even seen the SSP-91 handgun made by Magnum
##Research? It is pictured in the back of the 1993 Annual edition
##of Guns & Ammo. It seems to be available in several calibers including
##.308. I was wondering if it would make a good long range target 
##handgun. Also, how do you chamber a round in this gun? It looks as
##though it has a rather unconventional receiver.
#
#I've handled one, but haven't shot it. The design is a turn-breech.
#You swivel the rear of the pistol to one side to load it. The breech
#block is massive, but I'm suspicious that the hinge will loosen with
#use. Balance is nice, however, and the price is attractive.
#
#Gary
#-- 
#Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary

I've shot a friend's SSP-91 in .30-06.  My only complaint is that the
grips (or would that be 'stock'? :-) ) is made from a very hard noncompliant
black plastic.  If it doesn't fit your hand perfectly (it won't), the
hard plastic nails your hand pretty hard (compressing the flesh between
the plastic and your hand bones).

There really isn't a whole lot of recoil (as in an aft shove), but there
is extreme  and uncontrollable muzzle flip.  Shooting one-handed, it tended
to rotate up and left 45 degrees.  Muzzle blast and flash are impressive.
We were shooting American Eagle 150gr FMJBT and some old surplus
military ball; note that these are fairly mild loads compared to what you
could be shooting (i.e., using either heavier bullets or hotter loads).

Suprisingly, the trigger was quite nice. (brand new out of the box).

If you wanted to shoot accurately at long distances (which is probably why
you're buying this in the first place, right?), you'd probably want to
look at free floating the barrel.  From the factory, it has a straight
untapered barrel on a one piece stock.  I do not know how it is bedded,
so I can't say how easy this would be.
-- 
reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Daniel Chisholm)
reidld@ecf.toronto.edu (Daniel Chisholm)
From: cjp@megatek.com (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Value of AK-47 pre-ban?
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:32:32 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
# 
# 
# I've come across a pre-ban AK-47, with original pistol grip stock and
# a bayonett.  Two 30 rd mags included. The owner is asking $400.  
# I'm considering buying it. Is this a reasonable value?
# 
# Any ASAP responses would be appreciated. E-mail address below,
#
# ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Daniel Weed                                       weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
#

        Hell yes, buy it now. Before he comes to his senses. These things
are worth about twice as much on the open market.

        Of course, assuming this is legit. The key is "pre-ban". The
after ban ones come with the thumbhole stock, 5-round magazine and
no flash suppressor. If he purchased a post-ban gun and modified it
to look more "evil", he (and you) could be risking serious trouble.

        Does he have documentation as to original purchase?

--
-- 
Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Forgive me for not knowing about El Salvador. 
Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | Like it's not like I'm ever going to go to Spain
INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | or anything."	  -- "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"