HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <31505@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steve Hopper) writes...
  > 
  >There was an earlier post about how cows are able to keep producing
  >milk, either with hormones or induced pregnancy.
  > 
  >Now, I was not raised on a farm, but isn't the scenario something
  >like that if a cow is routinely milked after giving birth that
  >it will keep giving milk?  Maybe there is a limit to the time
  >involved?  Sounds like basic anatomy to me!

That was my impression as well when I first read that post.  At
least it seemed to work with the one cow we had when I was
growing up.  

I just didn't want to dispute the dairy gurus out there.

Carol
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:11:51 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <31505@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steve Hopper) writes:
>
>There was an earlier post about how cows are able to keep producing
>milk, either with hormones or induced pregnancy.
>
>Now, I was not raised on a farm, but isn't the scenario something
>like that if a cow is routinely milked after giving birth that
>it will keep giving milk?  Maybe there is a limit to the time
>involved?  Sounds like basic anatomy to me!

It  is  rare  for  cows  to  continue  lactating  over 4 years after giving
birth.  Many  cows  are  mated on a 12 month cycle, though this may have as
much  to  do  with  increasing  revenues from the sale of veal calves as it
does with ensuring a good milk yeild.

There  are  new  hormones  currently  being  developed  which  may  produce
continual  lactation,  I'll  leave it up to you to decide whether this is a
good thing or not.



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: matt@centerline.com (Matt Landau)
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream)
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:42:54 GMT

In <1992Apr17.080307.16289@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>On the contrary, they are still unborn chickens. What is so important
>about the act of fertilisation? If they are not fertilised, then they
>don't become chickens, if they are fertilised they might. So?

No, they aren't unborn chickens.  They're things that could have become 
unborn chickens had they been fertilized, which they weren't.  They have
missed their chance.  You could take an unfertilized egg from your local 
market and expose it to chicken sperm from now until doomsday, and it 
would never become a chicken.  An unfertilized egg that has been layed 
can no more become a chicken than you can.
From: shankar_k@mscf.med.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN: Indian Tomato Soup
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:57:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Med School Computer Facility

In several of Michael Traub's posts, he mentioned that people post recipes with
"animal products" are being insensitive.  Does this feeling extend to the
readership at large?  I post quite a few vegan and lacto recipes, as does Carol
Miller-Tutzauer and others, but if everyone wants exclusively vegan recipes,
ok.  I had just assumed (incorrectly?) from my reading of this group that there
were a lot of lacto-ovo types out here.

I've said my bit on the flame wars before, so I won't say it again.  Having
recently decided to go lacto-ovo myself (environmental and health reasons), the
"veggie baiting", here or anywhere else, is as obnoxious and rude as the
vegetarians and animal rights supporters who would harass and provoke arguments
in other realms.  Who ever posted that list of suggestions for this newsgroup
was a smart pup.  

I guess I don't understand the hypocrisy of peole with one set of standards for
their own behavior and a different one for others.  Having been a victim of the
flame wars before, it just strikes me as WEIRD to go around making immature,
vicious attacks on people you don't even know.

Enough diatribe and here's a recipe"

Very quick Indian tomato soup (I've listed ingredients for one, but it's very
easy to scale up):

1 clove garlic, minced
1/2 onion, minced
1.2 tsp cumin seeds
2 large juice tomatoes, chopped and juice saved (use more if you use plum
tomatoes)
1/2 tsp cumin, ground
1/2 tsp ground coriander
1/4 tsp ground cinnamon
1/4 tsp ground clove
1/4 tsp salt (or to taste)
1/4 tsp turmeric
black pepper (to taste)
1 tblsp chopped coriander (optional)


Saute onion, garlic, and cumin seed in a little vegetable oil until onion is
clear.  Add tomatoes and a little water or tomato juice if it seems too thick. 
Smush tomatoes well.  Add spices. Cook, covered, until consistency is pleasing.  
Add coriander at end, taste for salt and pepper.

Serves 1.

Kalpana




Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:4222 rec.pets.cats:4794 rec.pets.dogs:5504
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,rec.pets.cats,rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: pets
Date: 11 Apr 92 18:19:52 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr10.125032.3946@bb1t.monsanto.com> tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>[He's locking phasers Captain!!!!  Raise shields Mr.....]
>
Cloaking device activated:->

>Well Michael, I think that you are *WAY* off base.  I agree with some of
>your postings but not this one.  
>
Fine, I would be very surprised to find many people that do agree with
me on this, even among Vegans.

>The relationship between domestic companion animals and humans appears
>to go back to the times when we had just left the trees.  It surely
>goes back to the earliest recorded history.  I think it is pretty
>warped to compare pet keeping to slavery.  But I've seen the way you
>sometimes get your point across by using such techniques.  
>
Ah, but I said "if one compares ..." If you don't find the
first part of the comparison valid then there is very little chance of
you finding the second half valid either is there?

>A short lesson:  [deleted]
>                                                                 
Thanks, but I don't need the lesson. I've kept *many* pets
myself, and I know the realationship is symbiotic.

>In some of your posts it seems that you advocate that humans step
>completely out of the loop; that no interaction take place between
>humans and animals.  This is absurd.

It is, that's probably why I have never said it:->

>The relationship between 
>companion animals and humans is one of the more *successful* of the
>relationships between animals (yes, we are animals too).  Humans
>and animals benefit emotionally from the relationship.  Both are
>healthier, live longer and are better adjusted emotionally
>when living together than living apart.  The animal because
>of nutrition, shelter and health care (my three cats came to me
>as sick starving strays, not long for this world) and the human 
>because of the  emotional support given by the animal.  This is proven 
>by considerable prospective and retrospective epidemiological research
>and controlled studies. 
>
In many cases yes, in other cases the animal is abused and ends
up a stray destined for the incinerator.

>I support neutering of companion animals (at least as long as the
>world is overpopulated with them) but considering that they 
>*CANNOT* survive without us, your attitude dooms them to extinction.    
>
Possibly.

>Don't you *DARE* refer to pet owners as slavers. 

I didn't Ted, read more closely next time.

>Save your cheap
>rhetoric for politics.  Get yourself a rabbit,  you'll love it and
>it will love you in return.  I think that you could use it.
>
I've had more than enough pets already thank you. My personal
morals dictate against keeping any more, though when the patter
of tiny feet comes a begging I have no idea what I'll do.

>[Power down the phasers, Mr. Worf]

Worf? Naah it was Sulu!



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:34:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr8.124928.1383@acsu.buffalo.edu> riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer) writes:

>Also, you need to distinguish between the "beef industry" and
>the "dairy industry."  They are not one in the same.  You may
>still come to the same conclusion, but be careful about
>your reading and thinking on this one.

As someone noted earlier, "where do the boy calves go?"  For that matter,
where do the "old" dariy cows go?

While it is true that the dairy industry is not identical to the beef
industry, they *are* interlocked.  It is hypocracy (or lack of thought
or information) to be morally against killing cows, and yet support
the dairy industry.

- michael
From: gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Tofu bacon recipe?
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:33:27 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

SF1MSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>
>Could someone please post or forward a copy of the tofu bacon recipe that was
>posted several weeks ago.  I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
>Thanks in advance.
> 
>SEAN  (sf1msanu@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu)
>----------


Tofu that tastes like bacon?  Yes!!!!

You have to try this, you won't believe it.

If you have tried "Fakin' Bacon" and other tempeh based bacon substitutes
on the market, and been dissappointed, don't worry, you are not alone.
However, recently I came across this totally vegan dish that tastes EXACTLY
LIKE BACON.  It is unbelievable.   You have to try it!!!

Ingredients:

1.  1 lb firm Tofu, cut into strips shaped like bacon
2.  2 tablespoons nutritional yeast
3.  2 tablespoons tamari/shoyu
4.  1 teaspoon Wright's (or other brand) liquid smoke.
5.  1 tablespoon oil (something neutral, not olive or sesame)

Fry tofu strips on low or medium heat until they are crispy on the 
outside.   The best way to do this is to lay them in the pan in the
oil and let them sit for at least 10 minutes, simmering.   They should
turn easily after that.   Turn them and give them another 10 minutes on
the other side.

Mix the tamari/shoyu soy sauce with the liquid smoke first, 
then take the pan off the heat.  Pour the liquid smoke/tamari
into the pan and stir the tofu so all sides are coated, then sprinkle
the yeast over all, stir some more, over the heat, until the liquid is
gone and the tofu is covered with sticky yeast.

Try it.   It tastes EXACTLY like bacon.

Another variation is to marinate the tofu in the tamari/liquid smoke
mixture for several hours and then fry, but it misses a little bit
without the nutritional yeast.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Subject: Re: Is there a doctor in the house?
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 16:13:16 GMT

traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:

[...]

>>Other articles recently relating to nutrition and the vegan/vegetarian diet
>>have begun to take the tone of: "Don't trust your doctor, he is a paid
>>lackey of the meat/dairy industry;  we on the net know the true path to
>>health and you should trust us."  This is very, very wrong. 
>>
>Anyone ever see anything *remotely* like this posted to rec.food.veg?
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^
>No, I haven't either. Lying to try and get a point across is bad form.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: BAD HEALTH FAIR
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1992 23:00:46 GMT

[...]

>There is the Physician's Committee For Responsible Medicine's "New Four
>Food Groups", which is comprised of legumes, fruits, vegetables, and
>grains.  Meat and milk are "options" to be used sparingly if at all. 
>People who follow these guidelines are much healthier than people who
>eat the standard four food groups, and also healthier than people who
>eat according to the new pyramid scheme that was rejected by the USDA.
>
>>>Anyway, this is what we are up against when arguing veganism or
>>>vegetarianism for health reasons.  After all, why are people going to
>>>believe a bunch of "obviously biased" (sarcasm) vegetarians when their
>>>doctor or nutritionist tells them to drink milk or eat meat?  Trying to
>>>explain that doctors and many nutritionists recieve a biased education
>>>and you shouldn't trust them very much isn't going to work with a lot of
>>>people; saying that vegans and vegetarians live longer and are healthier
>>>might do some good, maybe.
>
>>Proving your statements by simply existing will help that.  Calmly
>>state  to as many people you can that you are vegetarian, and what risks you
>>feel you've fained from it.
>
>People will still believe the doctor in a pinch, unless they really
>understand the issue.  I think there should be an effort made to reform
>the AMA instead.
From: jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: De-muffining
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:13:00 GMT
Reply-To: JTAN@cc.weber.edu
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello, all!!

	I have just barely become a vegetarian (less
than two weeks ago!).
	I wasn't sure if there was a vegetarian
newsgroup, but, lo and behold, someone cross-posted
to sci.environment, and I just happened to catch
their header that had "rec.food.veg" in it, and
thought, "Sounds close enough!"
	From the last few posts, it appears I'm
in the right group!
	If anyone cares, these are (in order) the
reasons I have decided to become vegetarian:

	1)  Environmental
	2)  Humanitarian (the socialistic/anthropocentric type)
	3)  Humanitarian (the other one, for animals)
	4)  Health (not only mine, but other folks', too)

	I have switched to eating a lot of rice now,
but someone told me that I should eat meat or beans
with it:  does anyone know why?

Thanks!!!!

The Tan Man
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Witkop)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:36:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr8.143602.10374
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <53857@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt4646a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Beauchamp) writes:
>
> David F McWade writes: 
>>Then I was told that Ben & Jerry's was a free-range farm and treated its
>>cows very nicely, so it (therefore) would not be hypocritical.
>
>As it happens, I was AT the Ben & Jerry's plant in Waterbury, Vermont just
>two weeks ago, taking the tour. According to the folks there (in fact, 
>this information is also printed on the pint cartons of B&J's), they
>buy their milk and cream from a cooperative which supports 500 small 
>family farms. Whether these are free-range, cow-friendly farms, I don't
>know, but my hunch is that a family farm is bound to be better than 
>one o' them big factory farms.
>
[more about what a cool company B&J is]

I also took the factory tour about 1.5 years ago (a neat place!)
and I back Rob up on this.  VT is not exactly "cattle country",
and I would also tend to doubt that the farms in the cooperative
are anything like factory farms.  I seem to recall a couple of
years ago dairy farmers wanted to start using some new hormone
to increase milk production by their cows (anyone have a better memory
than me who can fill in details?) and Ben & Jerry's were very
vocally against it.
>
>Oh, and if you're not a vegan and you MUST have ice cream, 
>buy Ben & Jerry's! They'll put your money to good use. Which is
>more than the other companies can say.
>
I'm a total ice cream freak, and lucky enough to live in what
may be the ice cream capital of the world -- Ben & Jerry's is
far and away my favorite, and the fact that I feel good about
supporting the company is a major plus!

>This message paid for by the Committee to Cooperate with Cool Corporations. 
>-- 
>Rob Beauchamp                           \  It's better to be rich and healthy
>Georgia Institute of Technology           \    than poor and sick.    
>Disclaimer: Back off, man. I'm a scientist. \    -- Dave Barry's mother  


--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Theresa (Terra) Witkop                         terra@athena.mit.edu
MIT, Room 8-109, Cambridge, MA  02139-4307
Standard disclaimer applies.
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Liquid Smoke
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:38:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.011311.9549@pure.com>, rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) writes...
  >  >
  >  >	Wright's Hickory Seasoning (Liquid Smoke)
  >  >	Distributed by Nabisco Brands
  >  >
  > 
  >I'm making this note for those folks who (like me) don't like to support the
  >lovely lung-cancer, uh, I mean tobacco industry.

There is another way to look at the issue of boycotting Nabisco
products because they are part of RJReynolds:  

	1.  The typical way to view such a situation is to boycott
	    ALL RJReynolds products regardless of whether they are
	    tobacco products or not.  So... you don't eat oreos, 
	    don't buy Wright Liquid Smoke, etc.

	2.  Another way to look at it is to increase the market
	    share of RJReynolds NON-TOBACCO products.  The more 
	    their profits from these products, the less the total
	    company depends on (and is corrupted by) its tobacco
	    concerns.  Thus, horizontal divestiture (into products
	    other than tobacco products) serves as an corporate
	    escape route for the company as tobacco products
	    increasingly become a corporate and political liability.
	    My understanding is that this may actually be starting	
        to take place.  For the first time, the CEO of RJReynolds
	    is (a) from the food side of the company, and (b) is a
	    non-smoker.  

Just a thought.  In any case, Wright's only costs about $1.50
a bottle and it will has for the rest of your life!  We've
had our bottle for 15 years!  And we even use it; but you only 
use it a 1/2 to 1 tsp at a time.  Not exactly a large market
for the stuff out there.  

To each her/his own!

Carol
From: cpbuehrer@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the single veggie flame war
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:39:00 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

> I think that everyone is attracted to someone for very different
> reasons.  If you are not attracted to meat eaters, that is definitely
> your choice (the same as if I was not attracted to blond-eyed men).

I agree with what you say...however, this flame thread originated (more or
less) from someone posting that they refuse to associate with meat eaters and
would never consider dating one...because of the different life styles.  And
in my opinion, refusing to associate with meat eaters is equivalent to refusing
to associate with someone because of their religion!  Attitudes like that
aren't healthy...if people can't coexist with others then IMHO they shouldn't
exist at all.                ^^^^^or even ATTEMPT to do so


> If you find yourself in the position of being attracted to 
> a meat eater, only you know if it can work or not.  I only know
> that if I had not opened myself to this relationship and been 
> gentle (yet not wavering) about my being a vegetarian, I would have
> missed out on one of the kindest most caring people I have ever
> known.

I'm a veg with friends of every age, ethnicity, religion, sex, sexual
orientation, etc....and without such diversity in my life, I can only
imagine how dull life would be.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't give
them up (my friends) for anything.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 13:31:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.202137.17333@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie writes:

>Carol Miller-Tutzauer writes:
>
>>Charlie -- you'd just better bail out of this one.  Traub listens
>>to no one, not even if they manage to make a reasonable point on
>>occasion.
>
>     Not yet.  As long as it's just Traub spewing his intolerance against me;
>I'll be able to stand up fine and dandy.  Only when he is joined by seven or
>eight others will I consider running from rec.food.veg.

[...]

  Why run when the odds get poor?  The intolerance can't actually DO anything
  to you and the more intolerant the statements, the more foolish the speaker.
  What I'M afraid will happen is that the firestorms and flame wars will
  drive away the more rational readers and leave a polarized group of flamers
  like the ones in alt.abortion; if this happens, much useful information
  will be lost, and some mighty tasty (and healthy) recipes will be kept
  private.  Carol is the second in a trend starting over the past few days.


-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Wed,  8 Apr 1992 18:18:34 -0400 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream


>Oh, and if you're not a vegan and you MUST have ice cream, 
>buy Ben & Jerry's! They'll put your money to good use. Which is
>more than the other companies can say.

You could also have rice cream or tofutti.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rhuls@ssd.kodak.com (Robbin Huls)
Subject: Re: TVP -- recipes & nutritional info?
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 16:35:25 GMT

In article <17322@twics.co.jp> arenson@twics.co.jp writes:
>I have no idea if they are the same but HEALTH ACTION NEWSLETTER stated in an
>issue
>last year that _H_ VP  does frequently contain MSG.  Now if that is the same as
>_T_ VP I don't know.
>
>T=texturized?
>H=Hydolized

Just got my latest VT and sure enough, someone sent a letter complaining about
TVP containing MSG.  The editor stated that plain bulk TVP does not contain
MSG.  However, he added that packaged mixes containing TVP may also contain
MSG, but that should be listed in the ingredients list.  It was also noted
that H(ydrolized)VP does indeed frequently contain MSG.

There was also a recipe for "Sweetish" Meatballs.  I don't have the mag
right here, but if there is interest, I will type it in.  (It uses TVP and
evidently in the TVP article that the aforementioned letter writer was
talking about the food was mentioned but no recipe was included).

Robbin.
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Ben & Jerry's ice cream
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <odsW2c200WC0MLPUtC@andrew.cmu.edu>, dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes...
  > 
  >Hey,
  > 
  >I'm involved in the Earth Day Celebration, where people are going to be
  >giving away or selling Ben & Jerry's ice cream.
  > 
  >I was going to protest this, since I figure it was hypocritical to
  >support something in which proceeds were going to go toward saving the
  >rainforests but which actually might end up hurting the environment (by
  >supporting the beef industry).
  > 
  >Then I was told that Ben & Jerry's was a free-range farm and treated its
  >cows very nicely, so it (therefore) would not be hypocritical.
  > 
  >Can anyone confirm or deny this, and provide a fuller explanation?

I really don't know much about it, but Ben & Jerry
do a good job in general of running a socially responsible
company.

Also, you need to distinguish between the "beef industry" and
the "dairy industry."  They are not one in the same.  You may
still come to the same conclusion, but be careful about
your reading and thinking on this one.

P.S. -- Why not call the Ben & Jerry's organization and get
info on this?

Carol