HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad)
Subject: Re: CFV: alt.us.visas
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:48:19 GMT

In article <4614@d75.UUCP> vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com (Vijay Joglekar) writes:

   How about creating a group called alt.us.visas.  By the addition of
   this group we could help folks mostly interested in visa
   information from any country to get that information easily.  A FAQ
   will also be helpful.  
   This will moderate many of the soc groups. 


   **********************************************************************
		  Vijay Joglekar - arbiter elagantiarum



Hello Vijay,

 If any alt group was ever useful (and many truly are) this one should
be in the top-ten. As far as I am concerned, The United States custom
officers are the true representatives of the Western world. They are
open, friendly, will do everything possible to help you and above all
will never, never frisk you if you have oh so ever slightly shaded
skin color. 

 Of course, if you have a slightly shaded skin color and you are
transiting through the states because an ill-fated choice of plane had
you land on the sacrosanct land of good old Georgy, you don't need a
visa, oh no ! You need to go back, that's all.


 In any event, alt.us.visas is most definitly a wanted group. And yes,
let us keep it hidden from our friendly Custom officers lest these
cowboys find it and shoot it down.

naji.
--
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Naji Mouawad  |          nmouawad@watmath.waterloo.edu            |
    |  University   |---------------------------------------------------|
    | Of Waterloo   |   "The Stranger in us is our most familiar Self"  |
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Cost of Living Jewishly (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:31:32 GMT
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego

In article <1992Jul26.224125.28941@talon.ucs.orst.edu> daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz) writes:

>membership form), but just that the concept of dues bothers her.  Are there any
>shuls which do not have a membership dues structure?   How do they work?

At my shul, if one wants to vote, one has to pay dues, which are structed
based on marital status. I disagree with this basis, but am not able to 
change it, so end up paying my dues in arrears.  I attended a synagogue in
San Francisco that asked for %3 of net income as dues.

From time to time I've had a minyan meet in my home. This I really like the
best--from a monetary viewpoint--as no building expenses are involved, but 
one feels the lack of leadership that a trained individual can provide. When
I was growing up in West LA, I attended two regular shabbos minyans, complete
with seats and sefer torah, each run in someone's home. They provided the
households with a tax deduction and a nice way to contribute to the 
community.

A do-it-yourself minyan does not have a dues structure. Most shuls
allow attendance without membership fees.
--Michelle
mgross@nosc.mil
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:43:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Jul23.124344.16899
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous

In article <1992Jul22.220813.8561@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

>In article <1992Jul22.213610.23796@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
>hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

>>Now lets drop the cannibal analogy as it does not really apply and
>>is not leading anywhere.
>    Is it eating at you?

"I hate my mother-in-law!"
"Add a little salt," said the second cannibal.

(I never had a mother-in-law.)
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:35:47 GMT

In article <14k5hgINNe7c@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
>In article <84069@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>->In article <1992Jul22.031658.8291@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio (I am a terminator.) writes:
>->>Why must a Jew practice Jewish principles? You wouldn't demand a person
>->>born in a tribe of cannibals to practice cannibal principles would you?
>->
>->No, because there's something wrong with cannibalism.  You're not that
>->stupid that you can't figure out the answer to your own question, are you?
>->-- 
>->-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
>
>Could you please explain why cannibalism would appear wrong to a cannibal?
>If I can gain strength by eating my neighbor, why should I not do so?
>
>Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
>Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
>    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
>    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."


The question as phrased is nonsense in the literal meaning of the
term.  The question at hand is *Jewish* belief.  I would demand a
cannibal stop practicing as a cannibal because it is objectively
wrong and the cannibal beliefs are wrong.  I would not try to argue
from inside those beliefs.

Similarly, a Jew should follow the Jewish principles because they
are right and were given by G-d, not because of any "tradition",
"culture", or "history".  This is the reason we refuse to let the
missionaries destroy us by any means whether

"with flame or sword or whip
 or calls to xian fellowship"

____________________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |  Said the fox to the fish, join me ashore  |
| H_Markowitz@att.com |  So too is it with the Jews and the TORAH  |
|_____________________|____________________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Hebrew school (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:14:40 GMT

In article <l7dkq7INN2th@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>I'm not sure what alternative any of the comments on this subject are
>proposing.  Do you think that if a Jewish boy or girl is raised in a
>non-Orthodox home, it's better if they don't go to any religious school
>at all and thus get no exposure to Judaism.  Yes, we'd all like all
>Jewish families to have more Jewish practices in the home, and to
>provide all Jewish kids with substantive Jewish education, but that is
>not the current situation, and I think that some exposure to Jewish
>values and education is better than none.

If you are looking for a constructive discussion that includes
(potential) solutions, this isn't it.  This thread is simply a
discussion of the problems with afternoon Hebrew school.  I suspect it
is part of first acknowledging the problem that is a necessary step
before the constructive part of building a solution.
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Just Being Silly
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:24:17 GMT

  Al shlosha d'varim ha'olam omed:
>Yaakov - Emes - truth - he merited that all his children got the Torah
  Al hatorah
>Yitzchak - Gevurah - strength - He had Yaakov but also Eisav
  Al ha'avodah
>Avraham - Chesed - kindness - He had Yitzchak but also Yishmael
  Veh al chassidut ha g'malim.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:15:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.232940.13047@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.211027.7040@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In a lot of cases, the conclusion I come to is the same
>>as the halachic conclusion; but that's not because I'm "following" hala-
>>cha. I don't *follow* anything.

>If you do not follow halacha, I guess that halacha is not a "law" for you.
>So, if your conclusion is different from the halacha, are you violating it?
>This is surprising, because Jewish religion is based on a set of principles
>given by God. How can you be a religious Jewish and not follow them?

I've never disputed that written Torah was given by G-d, and I follow
*that* to the best of my ability. I disagree with the standard halachic
interpretations on what that law means and how one should follow it.

>When you said that intermarriage was wrong: Are you using halacha as your
>basis for that?

I'm using my judgement of the rules in Torah for that; in this case, as
in many, they coincide with halacha.

>I ask you because you said that I supported violations of halacha, even
>if I do not believe that there is one. Now, you say that you do not follow
>it.

I do not advocate that other people violate the halachic code; that's
up to them and I don't approve of my, your, the local rabbi's, or any-
one else's attempting to sway the decision either way.

>So, are you violating halacha or what?

In some cases, yes. Those are the cases where I think it is an incorrect
assessment of what Torah means. But I don't push others to do so.

>I guess you do not know.

You guess wrong, as usual.

>AAP

	-Nora


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Meaning of O U
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:24:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.151156.18035@pwcs.stpaul.gov> jerrys@pwcs.stpaul.gov (Jerry Segal) writes:
>I would like to know the differences and sources of the kosher signs on food
>packages.  I am referring to the K and the U within an O.  Would like to have
>the explanation and the source of each of the labels.  Is one Glatt kosher and
>the other not?  Or what?

The U within an O (the OU) represented the certification of the 
Kashruth Division of the Orthodox Union (a/k/a the Union of Orthodox
Jewish Congregations of America).

A K within a circle represents the certification of OK Laboratories.

Both are widely accepted as credible.

An unadorned K is not a registered trademark, and its use on a label
is relatively unrestricted by US law.  Determining that kashruth
standards represented by the unadorned K requires some investigation
(i.e., which rabbi [if any] is providing the supervision, etc.)

-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tanm@seneca.bst.rochester.edu (Martin Tanner)
Subject: kosher restaurants in toronto
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:58:31 GMT

Does anyone have a list of restaurants in toronto under hashgacha?
I'll be there during the 9 days, so an indication of chalavi/besari
would be helpful.

Thanks
Martin

p.s. please respond via email
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Meat on the first 10 days of Av.
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:40:18 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)

In article <1992Jul27.191710.9635@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, er@iscp (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>Yes.  There are no restrictions of meat/wine on Shabbos.  (Thank G-d!
>I'd never survive the 9 days otherwise!)

Really?  What's wrong with beer and pizza all week?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Summary:  Yigal is a right wing Zionist.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:37:04 GMT

In article <22055@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

# In article <1992Jul27.041242.3231@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mot.com (Mark) writes:

# > In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
# > >In article <1992Jul22.220540.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

# > >> I'm looking for an apartment in Gilo Bet in Jerusalem for mid sept
# > >> to mid october for a couple.  If you know of any possbility, please
# > >> respond to taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu or in J'lem call Lenn
# > >> Schramm at 63 01 38 during the day.

# > >Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.

# > And why would that have any bearing on a person needing an apartment
# > there for a few monthes ?
 
# The first followup actually trying to make a point...
 
# It may not matter to you, but I doubt you will deny that this
# information *might* make a difference to some people who are looking for
# an apartment in Jerusalem.  That's why I posted it.
 
	In Yigal's defense, there are many Zionsts who would like to live
in the liberated (what is being referred to here incorrectly as
"occupied") territories.  They can now consider Gilo.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Fly El Al [was: Multiple Hechshers]
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:43:01 GMT

In article <30JUL199206570332@vms.huji.ac.il> rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:

>>Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
>>Path: cs.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news
>>From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
>>Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>>Date: 30 Jul 92 03:52:52 GMT
>>Sender: news@wang.com
>>Lines: 30
>>
>>
>>Michah Lerner responds to my posing on Multiple Hechshers,
>>quoting me:
>>
>>>>>>Traveling on an El Al plane can be wild.  The local hechsher is not
>>>>>>good enough for some of the passengers; at least two London ones, a
>>>>>>Swiss and Belgian one were requested by neighbors of mine.  And finally
>>>>>>there was the fellow who refused all food and took out his home-made
>>>>>>sandwich.  Yiden, gevald!
>>
>>[and writes:]
>>
>>>  Sigh, but the sunrise from those planes is so beautiful, I wonder
>>>  how it got that way.
>>
>>****************************
>>
>>Has v'shalom that I should impugn El Al; do fly the Blue
>>Skies of El Al by all means.
>>
>>[N.B.; algebraic proof that shalom and Halila are the same:
>>Has v'shalom = Has v'Halila; subtract Has v' from both sides.
>>Q.E.D.]
>>
>>
>>
>>__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
>>Jerusalem
>>
>>
  No thought at all that you might chas v'shalom impugn the airline;
  my comment was wonder of the sunrise's beauty and an appreciation
  of the gift that Hashem gave us.
--
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Re: NYT OpEd: Black Demagogues and Pseudo-Scholars
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:39:46 GMT

cytron@helios.dfci.harvard.edu (Andrew Cytron) writes:

>Reproduced without permission.
>Black Demagogues and Pseudo-Scholars
>Henry Louis Gates Jr.
>CAMBRIDGE, Mass.

	Overall, this was a facinating article.  But one part really
confused me:

[ ...text deleted... ]

>            In New York, earlier this spring, a forum was held at the
>Church of St.  Paul and Andrew to provide an occasion for blacks and
>Jews to engage in dialogue on such issues as slavery and social
>injustice. Both Jewish and black panelists found common ground and
>common causes. But a tone-setting contingent of blacks in the audience
>took strong issue with the proceedings. Outraged, they demanded to
>know why the Jews, those historic malefactors, had not apologized to
>the "descendants of African kings and queens."

>And so the organizer of the event, Melanie Kaye Kantrowitz, did.  Her
>voice quavering with emotion, she said: "I think I speak for a lot of
>people in this room when I say 'I'm sorry.' We're ashamed of it, we
>hate it, and that's why we organized this event."

	Which Jewish actions were we asked to apoligize for?  I am not
trying to ask a rehetorical question here.  I just find it amazing the
Kantrowitz found it necessary to apoligize on all of our behalf when I
cannot even follow what is going on.  Perhaps I am idiot.  Or Kantrowitz
is a sell out and an embarassment to Jews.  I am not sure which.

>---------------------------------
>Henry Louis Gates Jr. is professor of English and chairman of the
>Afro-American Studies Department at Harvard.

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
Subject: Fly El Al [was: Multiple Hechshers]
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Date: 30 Jul 92 03:52:52 GMT


Michah Lerner responds to my posing on Multiple Hechshers,
quoting me:

>>>>Traveling on an El Al plane can be wild.  The local hechsher is not
>>>>good enough for some of the passengers; at least two London ones, a
>>>>Swiss and Belgian one were requested by neighbors of mine.  And finally
>>>>there was the fellow who refused all food and took out his home-made
>>>>sandwich.  Yiden, gevald!

[and writes:]

>  Sigh, but the sunrise from those planes is so beautiful, I wonder
>  how it got that way.

****************************

Has v'shalom that I should impugn El Al; do fly the Blue
Skies of El Al by all means.

[N.B.; algebraic proof that shalom and Halila are the same:
Has v'shalom = Has v'Halila; subtract Has v' from both sides.
Q.E.D.]



__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
Jerusalem


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: NMILLER@vax1.trincoll.edu
Subject: Re: Discovery
Reply-To: <NMILLER@vax1.trincoll.edu>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:48:44 GMT

Yossi Gil:

If the issue were one of testing probabilistic models, I would
be silent.  More than that, interested in a skeptical sort
of way.  But while there may be some serious people out there
who are doing serious things in this area, I was referring to 
the Discovery people who are in my opinion not only not serious
but in fact duplicitous and deceitful.

The bottom line is evidence.  When the evidence is made available 
to others, or when others are at least told precisely how they
can replicate the procedure, I have no complaints.  When instead 
every Borax trick is used to finesse the issue (I've already written
about this and don't want to repeat myself) then I feel it my duty
to warn others.  So I warn: these birds are the same ones who used 
to peddle snake oil, underwater lots in Florida, the Brooklyn Bridge.

Norman Miller
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Turbo-Orthodox (was Re: society as the basis for religion (was Re: What is Jewish religion?)
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:41:09 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <Brt4AD.6s4@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

    How about "black hat".  It's descriptive, and it has rather a dashing
    sound to it!

Well the bad guys wear black hats in westerns so ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter mathom.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not all that paranoid.
From: aa324@YFN.YSU.EDU (Marlene Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew vocabulary cards and sunday school teaching
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:24:59 GMT
Reply-To: <aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller)>
Organization: Nysernet




Wendy Fraker writes:

>I visited a family in Pittsburgh quite awhile ago, and while
>I was there they showed me a set of Hebrew vocabulary cards. There
>was at least 300 in the set. I've looked all over and can only
>find the same type of cards for Russian, German, French and Spanish.
>Does anyone know where I could get a set in Hebrew?

You might find them at 1-800-JUDAISM   A friend gave me that phone
number .. and so far they've never let me down in my quest for books,
tapes, etc.
 
Marlene Miller 
aa324@yfn.ysu.edu

--
         No nation can long survive without pride in its traditions.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kosher insects and ftp archives
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:17:15 GMT

In <1992Jul27.020356.2076@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>  - Someone --  was it you, Warren? - suggested going into business
>    selling chocolate covered grasshoppers.

Was it?  I can't find the posting.  Could have been me.

Which reminds me of something I figure I oughta mention - we're on
tape.  That's right, starting last Friday, everything that goes out
over SCJ gets archived, and is available via anyonymous ftp on
israel.nysernet.org (I wonder if this posting is going to get into
comp.archives, I think they search for 'ftp' within the first n lines,
wonder if this is close enough.) in ~ftp/israel/scj and via listserv -
send mail to listserv@israel.nysernet.org (*not* to scj@... or
everyone on the net sees your mistake) saying INDEX SCJ to find out
what is archived and then GET SCJ name-of-file to get files.  They are
stored according to the dates that the articles were sent out from
nysernet as digests.

I also have every article since I set up the listserv (I don't
remember when this was anymore) but that's not accessable yet and I
don't know if I'll ever get around to making it accessable.

I don't know if I'm going to go on doing this - I just wanted to test
the archving feature on a list that has traffic every day.  On the
other hand, some day this all may be stored in the Jewish Computer
Museum and people will write their PhD thesis on "OCR Flame Wars
in the late 20th century" or "Crossposting to talk.politics.mideast".
So maybe we should amend
    This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
    civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not
    thousands of dollars to send everywhere.  Please be sure you know
    what you are doing. 
to include a warning that your grandchildren will be able to read what
you write.

About locust cuisine - if they taste like chicken (and what doesn't?),
I think that a mole sauce might be preferable to chocolate-dipping.

And seriously, I've been told that only Yemenites are allowed to eat
them.  Of course consult your Local Orthodox Entomologist and all that ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the ***
/ nysernet.org is not all that worried.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish