HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:40:22 GMT
	<2022@spam.ua.oz>
Distribution: talk,world
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: jaskew@spam.ua.oz's message of 22 Jan 93 00:42:30 GMT

In article <2022@spam.ua.oz> jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
>
> In article <1993Jan18.144458.195@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
> >Wayne, I have a terrific idea. Spend $10 and phone Leibowitz. His home phone
> >(from the U.S.) is: +972-2-255449. His home address:
> >Professor Y. Leibowitz
> >Rechov Ussishkin 62
> >Jerusalem, Israel
>
> I don't want to appear totally ignorant here but didn't Professor Leibowitz
> die in 1991? Are we talking about the same Leibowitz? The biochemist who
> talks about 'JudeoNazis' or whatever. A really old guy who fled from Hitler
> in 193something? Are you sure he is still alive because I am sure I heard
> he died.

Not only is he not dead, he was just this week nominated for the Israel
Prize, a high honor to be bestowed upon him by the Israeli state.  I
suppose Mr. Backon should hurry and inform the Isareli government that
Leibowitz is nothing but a maker of bad coffee rendered mentally
unbalanced by deaths in his family.
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
arens@isi.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: The "I told you so" guys
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Distribution: talk
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:03:40 CST

In article <1993Jan22.1777.23088@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

> In sum, I told you so. And you ain't seen nuthin yet. My read is


	Welcome to the "I told you so" club. You'll be seated
	next to Jeremy Henderson whom, I sure, you'd find a
	charming and conforming mate.
                                                    

Noam
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26120 talk.politics.soviet:10674
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Argic is right
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:41:53 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <105899@netnews.upenn.edu>  sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)  writes:

> Argic is right.

I keep up with "scholars" because they are always a little ahead
of the times. Now any comment?


Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, 
Inc., New York (1952). 
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 358.

 "...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled
  north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands, 
  Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -
  coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would 
  break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'
  vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...

  An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips
  smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just
  Smyrna over again on a bigger scale."

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Saddam Hussein
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:40:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.140804.26626@ifi.uio.no> michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan20.132949.19485@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
>> In article <43665@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>> >> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
>> >
>> >>The obvious solution to the Saddam Hussein
>> >>problem is to eliminate Saddam Hussein, and I think the American
>> >>military is quite capable of that.
>> >
>> >
>> >       The American military?   Why don't the Iraqis do it
>> >       themselves?  Surely they can handle such an *obvious*
>> >       solution.
>>
>>      They've tried, I can remember at least two attempts.  The
>>      problem is the internal security system.  It is large and not
>>      necessarily efficient but very brutal and effective.  By
>>      picking up suspects almost at random and interrogating them on the
>>      basis of not believing denials, the internal security
>>      apparatus forms mythical conspiracies and follows them up
>>      until they finally fall over a real one.  Stalin did the
>>      same thing during the Yezhovschina or Great Terror.
>>
>One thing is to be CAPABLE of doing it.
>Another thing is being INTERESTED in doing it.
>
>The U.S is not interested in eliminating Saddam, because its vital
>for them to keep Iraq unified. If anybody (kurds in north or
>Shia moslems in south (against all odds) succeeded in eliminating
>Saddam - the U.S would have a hell of a dilemma.

	The perils of pronouns, I wasn't talking about the U.S., I
	was talking about the Iraqis.

	Alec.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26136 soc.culture.greek:12444
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: the chairman of EC says...
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:30:28 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C18s77.Cq2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

>>Opaliko.

> Omalaka.

Lumps in the "tamtam" pot? While the military coup plans of the 
'Atina' government made the Greeks 'illegal intruders' on the 
island, the presence of the Turks, on the other hand, was justified 
according to the 'Tripartite Treaty' signed by Great Britain, Greece 
and Turkiye in 1960. Furthermore, the extent of the unprovoked Greek 
savagery, unleashed in the name of fascist 'Megali Idea,' can be seen 
at the 'Chronology of Greek Aggression in Cyprus', exposed by newspapers 
and journals. 

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26400 soc.culture.greek:12669
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: conversion to judaism / Center for Pol
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:45:31 GMT

In article <9301231830.AA10298@igc.apc.org> <Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org>> writes:
>A certain Brendan asks me to apologise for defining Zionism as
>a form of racism and highlight specific aspects of Judaism as racism.

>Far from using these terms as smears, there is ample evidence
>to prove these assertions. Even former chief of Israeli

	You were asked to rovide proof that Judaism is rasict.  You
lectured us about Israeli racism.  Israeli law is not Jewish law.

>It is true that many Israelis don't give a damn for international law,
>U.N. resolutions and agreements signed by Israel.

	Could you provide an example of each of these that Israel has
violated?  Thats one intenational law, and one agreement signed by
Israel.  The UN is a hypocritical body, and I could care less about
what it says.

> This is however not
>my position. I maintain that international law and Conventions signed by
>the majority of UN members, reflect a good consensus and should be used
>as a yardstick to assess a regime. The fact that many states violate
>these conventions does not exonerate Israel.

	So why do you spend most of your time attacking Israel,
instead of spending it on all those states that violate the
conventions?


Adam Shostack 				       adam@das.harvard.edu

"If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure
wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."   -John Perry Barlow
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
From: jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:30:31 GMT
Distribution: talk,world
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

>>>> >Wayne, I have a terrific idea. Spend $10 and phone Leibowitz. His home phone
>>>> >(from the U.S.) is: +972-2-255449. His home address:
>>>> >Professor Y. Leibowitz
>>>> >Rechov Ussishkin 62
>>>> >Jerusalem, Israel
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to appear totally ignorant here but didn't Professor Leibowitz
>>>> die in 1991? Are we talking about the same Leibowitz? The biochemist who
>>>> talks about 'JudeoNazis' or whatever. A really old guy who fled from Hitler
>>>> in 193something? Are you sure he is still alive because I am sure I heard
>>>> he died.
>>>
>>>Not only is he not dead, he was just this week nominated for the Israel
>>>Prize, a high honor to be bestowed upon him by the Israeli state.  I
>>>suppose Mr. Backon should hurry and inform the Isareli government that
>>>Leibowitz is nothing but a maker of bad coffee rendered mentally
>>>unbalanced by deaths in his family.
>>
>> Pardon me, Yigal, but where does Josh Backon say this, or anything that
>> prompts this, in the above?  He doesn't, is the answer.
>
>
>You're correct. In my 3 (??) hour conversation with him in his study a few
>years ago, he served STALE cookies and lukewarm coffee :-)
>
>In all seriousness, Leibowitz is brilliant but takes extreme almost provocative
>positions on a large number of issues. His fanatic religious philosophy is
>completely foreign to the vast majority of Orthodox Jews (even not in Israel).
>His pontificating is pathetic. He is probably the most vulgar, uncouth,
>foul-mouthed individual I've ever met in my entire life. Although my
>specialization is not psychiatry, from what I discerned in my personal
>tete-a-tete with Leibowitz including some highly personal, intimate
>revelations, I'm forced to conclude that he's not the most stable person
>around. I'm trying to  be polite here so please read between the lines.
I 100% agree with you.But still,I think that the whole scandal which is going
on in Israel right now is a v. v. v. ugly thing. It reminds Russian (or other)
dictature in which you have no right if you don't think as the majority/gouver-
nament does. It is a dangerous thing for the democaty to try to keep a person
from receiving what he merrits,just because his opinions,as fantic as they may
be.
   We have to understand that he does not receive the prize for his cuckoo ideas
but for his entire 'mif'al haiim'(how the hell you say THAT in english?).The
man did 'something' in his life,so he gets a prize for it.What's the big deal?
				   ___
                                  (o o)
 ------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------------
  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @ Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @ Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: jews as a race
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:32:19 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: David Marc Nieporent

>#I'm sorry, Danny, but I don't think you read the passage
>#carefully, and your responses are inadequate. Try to explain away
>#the meaning of "pure and undefiled LINEAGE of Jacob," "OFFSPRING
>#of Isaac," "ISSUE of Ishmael," and "SCIONS of Isaac" in the
>#following passages, which are both racialist and racist:

 DM> And George Washington was the father of our country.

 DM> If you can't understand metaphors...

I think I have some ability to understand metaphors: do you?

If the United States had defined itself as predominantly a
Christian Anglo-Saxon nation (but one which admitted a few
converts each year, of course), and if the American religious
establishment had strongly discouraged any intermarriage between
the holy seed of George Washington and unchosen outsiders, then
your analogy might carry some weight. But the United States
doesn't operate under that kind of ideological and political
system, does it, David?
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  The machines we have built for the end.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26102 talk.politics.soviet:10663 talk.politics.space:1747
From: chao6@husc11.harvard.edu (James Chao)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.space
Subject: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.space
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:54:48 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

(If possible, please print out and post for people who might be
interested)

To all those interested in international relations, politics, and the
United Nations -- WorldMUN is a great forum for the discussion of 
current issues being debated by the United Nations today: 

Harvard World Model United Nations (WorldMUN) is an international
conference that brings together university students and young
professionals from around the globe to siimulate the workings of the
United Nations.  The second annual WorldMUN conference will be held from
March 28, 1993, through March 31, 1993, at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
The Czech Republic.  

Ten committees, representing the General Assembly, Economic and Social
Council, and Specialized Agencies of the United Nations, will discuss
issues from the actual UN agenda.  In addition to the formal debate of
resolutions, committee sessions will be augmented by presentations from
politicians, businessmen, scholars, and activists who have helped shape
the dramatic world events of recent years.

In this era of momentous political change, WorldMUN seeks to assess the
role of the United Nations in a new world order.  WorldMUN marks the first
truly international simulated United Nations where participants play the
roles of their own nation's ambassadors.  WorldMUN strives to teach
tomorrow's leaders about the United Nations and its methods of conflict
resolution.  It aims to foster skills in negotiation and debate, in order
that delegates may formulate resolutions on topics currently discussed in
the real United Nations.  These resolutions will be sent to the actual
United Nations committees.

WorldMUN 1993 will take place at the Hotel Diplomat in Prague,
The Czech Republic.  The Hotel Diplomat is Prague's most modern conference
center.  Prague is both one of the most beautiful metropoles of Europe and
an ideal location for debating current world politics and the changing
role of the United Nations.

The Hotel diplomat is a luxury resort that offers restaurants, shops, a
night club, and fitness and spa equipment.  Delegates will stay at the
Hotel Diplomat for the reduced rate of 130DM/day double occupancy, which
includes two meals a day.

Delegate registration is $US60 per delegate.  For more information, please
reply to this e-mail address or write/fax:
Joshua A. Salomon, Secretary-General
Harvard World Model United Nations 1993
Suite 23, 1430 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02138-3810
UNITED STATES

Telephone:  001-617-493-6995
Fax:  001-617-493-6995

James Chao
chao6@husc.harvard.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26036 soc.culture.turkish:14647 soc.rights.human:4938
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Nazi Armenians serving in the Wehrmacht and the SS (was Re: hanif).
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 23:49:34 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan24.201344.5028@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:

>>Here is a difference to be noted: you may be supposed to write in English
>>in talk.politics or rec.arts, but not in s.c.turkish.

>True.  And from following the thread, it seems that it started in
>s.c.turkish.  But when something is crossposted it's usually done
>because it appeals to or is important for readers in the other group(s).
>In that eventuality, translations should be provided, IMHO.

More ridicule; I take it? If skill could be gained by watching, every 
ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminal/Nazi would become a butcher, "perlmanian". 
As early as 1934, K. S. Papazian asserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' 
that the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) 

        'leans toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1]

At that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would
actively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World
War II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of Turkish
population of eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological
tendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before
the outbreak of the Second World War.

In 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted
in the 'Hairenik Weekly:' 

"The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall 
 see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations
 and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to
 the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are
 strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race.
 On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is
 bereft of social sanctities."[2]

[1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press
   1934), Preface.
[2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our
   Refuge' by O. Zarmooni.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26270 talk.politics.soviet:10726 soc.culture.soviet:12410
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "Gagging at the mess of his slashed genitals," writes Dunn.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:34:41 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <93024.095004DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Dimitri Vulis <DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Must be a good AI simulation... :)

Floating down to earth - boxes of clowns. In a nut shell, we demand 
that the x-Soviet Armenian Government admit its responsibility for 
the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, render reparations to the Muslim 
people, and return the land to its rightful owners. The recognition 
of the Genocide has become an issue which cannot be delayed further, 
and it is imperative that artificial obstacles created for political 
manipulations be removed. We believe the time has come to demand from 
the the United States that it formally recognizes the Turkish and Kurdish 
Genocide, adopts the principles of our demands and refuses to accede to 
Armenian pressures to the contrary. Sank in?

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: drori@gumby.Altos.COM (Ghiora Drori)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:35:26 GMT
Reply-To: drori@altos.COM (Ghiora Drori)
Distribution: talk,world
Organization: Altos Computer Systems, San Jose, CA

In article <4669@bimacs.BITNET# ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
#
#Leibowitz ideas about Israel and the Jews are about those of Yigal
#Arens.
#
#Shalom    gideon Ehrlich   ERETZ YISRAEL

Gideon Erlich is a well known right wing fanatic who's opionions
about Jews are the same as those of Rehavam Zevi. 

Gigi
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26403 talk.politics.soviet:10838 soc.history:11054 soc.culture.turkish:15179 soc.culture.soviet:12514 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1396 soc.culture.croatia:524
From: odattn@.ic.ac.uk (Mr O. Dattner)
Subject: Re: BUSH BOMBS ISLAMIC CONFERENCE T
Organization: Imperial College
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:09:05 GMT

In article <1483500322@igc.apc.org> cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes:
>....
>5.  If not, why are Iraqi people punished for for crimes against
>   pecae committed by their imposed rulers ?

I personally believe(d) Bush when he said the war wasn't against the Iraqi 
people. If it was, it would not be hard for the U.S. to hit many more civilians.
Just because Sadaam wasn't elected, it does not mean that he shouldn't be fought
when he commits crimes. In any war there are going to be civilian casualties. I
know that sounds inhuman but there is little else the world could have done in 
the face of such aggression.

>7.  Do Americans agree that Iraqis have the right to bomb
>    Washington, as an act of retaliation, or are they inferior
>   human beings that have only the right to besubmitted ?

It's not a question of what the Americans agree to or not. If Iraq had the 
capability to bomb Washington they would have. Take the missile attack on 
civilian centers in Israel for example. Iraq wasn't even retaliating. It was an
ill disguised attempt to drag Israel into the war using naked aggression.

>
>Thanks for any relevant information.
>Elias

Ori

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast