From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:19:32 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality

In article <1gbg23INN1or@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
> > but you are missing the forest for the trees.
> > Homophobia is institutionalised in our society
> 
> I still feel that this is an overworked and misapplied word.  A phobia
> is a FEAR of something.  But homosexuals use it for 'fear', 'dislike',
> or whatever.  

Yes , i understand this, and yes I think that what we are dealing with here
is fear. If you would like to carry on a private e-mail conversation about
it I would be happy to elaborate.

> Dislike of blacks just because they are black is racISM,
> not racOPHOBIA.  

There are elements of fear involved in that racism though.
Go ahead think about it, see if you can't figure out two or three or four
aspects of institutionalised bigotry against blacks that was directly the
result of social fear.

> Accusing someone of being afraid of you just because 
> they don't find your sexual preference 'natural' only serves to add a 
> sense of hysteria to the situation, and alienate furthur.  

Again, don't think of it as an accusation, institutionalised homophobia
is not something that fits that category.

> Should I call
> a homosexual person who dislikes fundies fundieOPHOBIC?  Straight people
> I know basically roll their eyes and turn off when the 'ohpobic' word 
> starts getting thrown around. 

thats doesn't mean that there isn't some basis or rationale for the concept.

> > but your are missing the forest for the trees again.
> > I am perfectly normal, absolutely ordinary as a matter of fact.
> > Loving other men is my natural state, 
 
> Is it a 'part' of you, or something you chose to do?  Is there any choice 
> in sexual orientation, or is it just genetic, and in integral part of the
> person? 

yes, it is an integral part of me. Yes I chose to act by my nature rather
than conform to the social role I was expected to fulfill.
Whether its genetic or not , I don't know, but I do know it has been a part
of me as long as I can remember.

> > except that you just said that homosexuality is not normal.
> > what kind of message do you want to send?
> > *That homosexuals are not normal but thats OK?*
> > excuse me Walter, but thats not OK with me.
 
> Your excused again...for me, it is *not* natural.  Neither is extreme
> religious fundamentalism.  

Thats OK, I don't expect you to conform to whats natural for me.
Do you expect me to conform to whats natural for you.?
Do you expect your daughter to conform to whats natural for you?

> But I can be friends with a fundie, I can
> accept that that is what they want to be, and are.  I don't have to 
> accept their hard-line views to keep us from beating each other up
> with tire irons.   

The problem with a lot of fundies is that they are the ones weilding the
tire irons, but I agree with this basicly.
 
> What exactly must be done for things to be *OK* with you?  If I accept 
> your right to peacefully be whatever you want to be, but don't find it
> 'natural' or 'normal' or whatever you want to call it, is that OK? 
> Or do I have to think a certain way for it to be OK with you?

Ok, now we are down to it.
No you don't have to think a certain way for me, but I want you to 
grant me the exact same rights , privileges and freedom you give to
yourself.  Nothing less , nothing more.

I have the same right to publicly be who I am as you do, I want the laws
which govern my responsibilitys as a citizen to be the same as those which
affect you. I want the same validation as a being as you get, and
I expect to be able to live in a society where that is upheld by the rule of
law in an equitable manner. 

LUX ./. owen

 

> 
> Walter Smith
> smithw@cs.itc.hp.com


--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi