HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky)
Subject: Re: SVO / VSO --> NP-Movement
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:18:44 GMT

A brief remark w.r.t. Arild Hestvik's and Avery Andrews' responses.
There really is an unsolved question, which the current literature has
technical answers for, but nothing that looks like understanding.  There
are instances of non-optional NP-movement -- rather uniformly from
non-Case-marked subject (specifier) positions in languages like English
and -- I believe -- Icelandic and Norwegian as well, but less uniformly
from object positions of passives and unaccusatives.  There
indefiniteness restrictions raise their ugly heads, even in English
(There seem to have been shot several bank robbers.).  Chomsky
constructed a system which in its simple form would force movement from
all these positions.  Then either the system or individual lexical
entries get complicated to handle instances that look like optional NP
movement.  The system can be complicated by allowing optional Case
transmission (LGB), LF movement into a Case position (his more recent
work), etc.  Lexical entries can be complicated by allowing passive
participles to assign Case optionally, perhaps in a theory of so-called
"partitive" (bad name) Case like Belletti's.

The alternative is to move in the direction Arild suggests -- admit
formally optionally movement from these positions.  But then we have the
opposite problem -- understanding why such movement is sometimes forced.

Another sort of case is the ability of non-finite inflection in some
languages (Latin, Irish, English if you look at gerunds) to license some
sort of objective Case on the subject, which also leads to the
appearance of optional movement (as was noted in the earliest work on
Case theory; Rouvert & Vergnaud's paper on French causatives).

The problem is not a lack of imagination that can develop "accounts",
but a lack of any real understanding concerning the cross-language and
language-internal asymmetries found.  I, for one, have yet to see a
discussion of these matters that looked insightful, yet I still wouldn't
jump at conclusions like what seems to be Arild's: "the morphology looks
the same, therefore it must have one and only one property w.r.t. Case"
(not a quote).  Perhaps it's just a matter of taste at this point.

-David Pesetsky
From: schiller@whorf (Eric Schiller)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: SVO / VSO
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:46:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Sep28.164633.21550
Reply-To: schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <peeters.717657429@tasman> peeters@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (bert  
peeters) writes:
> Does this not show how anglocentric the entire generative enterprise  
really
> is? Would Chomsky, had he been a native speaker of a VSO language, not
> have concluded that SVO languages are essentially VSO in structure, with
> etc. etc. 
> 
> I found David Pesetsky's earlier remarks on cognitive vs generative  
ling-
> uistics enlightening, but this latest one looks like it is particularly
> weak indeed.
> 
> By the way, has there been any discussion on cognitive linguistics as a
> broad category under the topic of "cognitive phonology" (which was at  
the
> head of the message I reply to before I removed it)? I missed all of it,
> in that case - and the reason I came back was that I saw Pesetsky's  
name.,
> and wanted to know what he had to say.
> 
> 
Well, not really anglo-centric. After all, Jim McCawley tried to argue for  
English as a VSO language a couple of decades ago, sparking a big debate,  
which resulted in some very convincing counterarguments being published. I  
suppose, however, that the idea had to be "reinvented" in GB terms to be  
made more modern. I wonder if they have bothered to read all the  
counterarguments from the Generative Semantics days. <grin>
--
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Eric Schiller                              schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Dept of Linguistics, Univ. of Chicago      schiller@whorf.uchicago.edu
                                  
Xref: sparky sci.lang:7510 alt.usage.english:7686
From: arild@adler.ims.uni-stuttgart.de (Arild Hestvik)
Subject: Re: SVO / VSO  --> NP-movement
Reply-To: arild@ims.uni-stuttgart.de
Organization: IMS, University of Stuttgart, Germany
	<ARILD.92Sep29162327@milan.ims.uni-stuttgart.de>
	<1992Sep30.030337.16548@athena.mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:31:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.030337.16548@athena.mit.edu> pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky) writes:

   Turning to Scandinavian (where I don't know your 1986 paper but
   do know the comparable (?) data from German and Dutch), can you tell
   whether we're dealing with formally optional movement or, alternatively,
   with an optionality in the properties of the relevant morphology?  

It's clearly formally optional movement. The morphology is constant (simply
a periphrastic passive, composed of aux + past participle). Example:

Det ble gitt ham en gave
'there/it was given him-ACC a present'

han ble gitt en gave
'he-NOM was given a present'

?en gave ble gitt ham
'a present was given him'

(The last example is for some reason not so good, but improves to perfect
with other verbs, such as 'overrekke' "to hand (over)": Gaven ble overrakt
ham paa hans bursdag 'the present was handed over to him on his birthday).
The same holds for unaccusative verbs:

Det ankom et tog  -- Et tog ankom
there arrived a train

Det ventet ham en overraskelse -- en overraskelse ventet ham
there awaited him a surprise 

See my "Case Theory and Norwegian Impersonal Constructions," Nordic Journal of
Linguistics 9.2, 181-197 (1986).

  Turning away from the (less important) Anglo-centrism issue: as far as I
can see, any optional movement process is a problem for Chomsky's current
approach.

-Arild Hestvik
From: parsogd@wkuvx1.bitnet (Geoffrey Parsons, WKU)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Good Kanji Dictionary
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:10:31 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY


  Could anyone out there in netland recommend a good kanji dictionary
for an english speaking person. I am currently studing Nihongo and
Kanji and I really need a better way to look up characters.

Thanx,

Geoffrey Parsons
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: huh..  was Re: 26 blah
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:00:45 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>>first part of "bait"...
>I wouldn't think so, unless you pronounce "bait" as two syllables.

I did say "first part", so I realize it is a dipthong.

>"ke", as in "bet" :-)  Unless your speech is particularly clipped,
>you'll pronounce "kay" as a diphthong.

Ok, I meant the "first part" of "kay".  I hear the sound as varying
somewhere between short english "e" and long english "a" (despite
assurances that japanese vowels never ever vary).

(and speaking of aero, both "ayro" and "erro" are common pronounciations)

>This is one reason why you should work with a teacher--a native
>speaker if at all possible--at least when starting out.

Well, I could give up now then :-) Found out the time involved for a
normal university language class, which is a bit too much for a grad
student anxious to get out.  Maybe a night class next quarter.
And all my friends that I know speak Japanese aren't native
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - Luxury!  In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...
From: kono@csl.sony.co.jp (Shinji Kono)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: kinput2
Date: 27 Sep 92 16:41:36 GMT
Reply-To: kono@csl.sony.co.jp
Organization: Sony Computer Science Laboratory, Inc.

$@2OLn(J@CSL.Sony$@$G$9!#(J
In article <38626@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> , 
	djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes 
> So then, does anyone have detailed instructions on how to do conversion?  

Ya, that's the strange part. When you made kinput2, you noticed it uses
client library in Wnn, Canna or Sjx. That is, it depends on Wnn, Canna or
Sjx configuration file. In other words, you have to read manual for
Wnn, Canna or Sjx.

A fast way is this. Find sample configuration file and take a look at that.

Wnn:   kinput2/ccdef/ccdef.kinput2
Sjx:   kinput2/sj3def/sjrc
Canna: /usr/local/lib/iroha/*.default  (but you have to see tthe document)
---
Shinji Kono @           kono@csl.sony.co.jp
Sony Computer Science Laboratory, Inc,Japan
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi (Juha-Petri Tyrkk|)
Subject: Re: Dyslexi in china & Japan
Reply-To: jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi (Juha-Petri Tyrkk|)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:35:03 GMT

<Bv44Jo.11z@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Chuck Douglas:

> <...> The character means the same thing, however, so it all depends
> on the writing which a dyslexic could easily screw up by putting down
> the right character in the wrong place.

> I would swear I am dyslexic in Japanese.  I can quite often get all
> the right kana for a word but every now and again I will put them in
> the wrong order.

> Dyslexia is not a matter of knowing how to pronounce the word based
> on phonetic spelling, but a matter of the mind not correctly comminicating
> with your hand.

  According to a well-known scientific magazine (sorry, name forgotten)
the reading disorder called dyslexia is caused by a synchronicity error
between two pattern recognition functions of the brains. The coarse
function keeps track of the location on the page and the fine function
resolves the shapes of the letters. If these two functions do not
run in tight enough connection with each other, they end up pointing at
different letters and so the letters will be read in a shuffled order.
The similar problem with writing is called dysgraphia.

  This same phenomenon should occur with kana. About kanji I do not
know, as their complexity might require different kinds of recognition
methods as with Roman letters or kana.

                                                  Juha-Petri Tyrkko

                                                  jtyrkko@vipunen.hut.fi

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: marc@watson.ibm.com (Marc Auslander)
Subject: Re: Wordtank user report
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:26:44 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Hawthorne, New York

I use the 7200.  Problems in addition to the ones alreadly listed are:

1. Keystroke loss.  If I type too fast, keys are lost.  A typeahead
buffer is needed.

2. The kanji dictionary should have an english sense for each kanji,
such as the sense found in the Halpern Kanji Dictionary.

3. The japanese-english dictionary should have the part of speech indicated.

4. The japanese-english dictionary should have a lookup which ignores
long vowels, as do most japanese-english printed dictionaries.  The
short-long vowel distinction is difficult for non-native speakers to
hear reliably.

5. It should be possible to scroll directly through the list of
compounds for a kanji.  (This goes one step beyond the complaint that
the return key returns to the kanji instead of the list).

6. It should be easy to get from a kanji to the non-compound words
(often verbs) based on the kanji.

All this said, I agree that this is a wonderful product, which I am
happy I bought.  But with the growing interest in Japanese in the US,
a native english speaker version would really be appreciated.
--


Marc Auslander       (IBM)<marc@marc.watson.ibm.com>      914 784-6699
                     (Internet)<marc@watson.ibm.com>
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mike@neopath.wa.com (Mike Rosenlof)
Subject: Re: Answer to Nihongo dictionary: suggestions .
Organization: NeoPath
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:37:37 GMT

In article <39086@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>What about a Japanese-English dictionary?  I would think this is
>a more useful device, yet I haven't seen any good ones...  Lots
>of E-J dictionaries though (which I never use).
>

In my humble opinion, the choice of a Japanese-English dictionary is much
less critical to native English speakers, as we can usually pick synonyms
or whatever from word lists to get a good sense of what's going on. I,
as a native English speaker learning Japanese, worry much more about a
E-J dictionary than a J-E.

A while back a Japanese friend was listing ingredients for a recipe, and
was using her J-E dictionary to translate a few of the words. One of the
things she listed was "laver". My reaction was what is this? She meant
nori, and if she were a native English speaker, she would have chosen the
second word listed after "nori" which was "seaweed". I've made similar
clumsy mistakes in Japanese, using a clumsy E-J dictionary, but make
far fewer such mistakes with a clumsy J-E dictionary.

In general, I look for quantity and variety of example sentences. The more
the better.

mike
-- 
mike rosenlof                   (206)455-5932
mike@neopath.wa.com     NeoPath, Bellevue Washington USA
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen)
Subject: Re: Uploaded GAKUSEI Japanese tutorial for PC
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:30:28 GMT

70700.2225@CompuServe.COM (Bruce Hamilton) writes:
>ftp.uwtc.washington.edu:/pub/Japanese/IBM/gaku10.exe
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 100      30         346437 Sep 18 16:36 gaku10.exe

>This shareware Japanese language tutorial for new language students is a
>first-year grammar review that includes a dictionary, glossary, automatic
>verb conjugation, and introductions to Hiragana and Katakana using a
>standard keyboard layout.  Requires DOS 3.3 or better, EGA or VGA, Epson
>LQ or HP LJII printer.

>This package includes the first six lessons.  Registered users get nine
>additional lessons.  gaku10.exe is a self-extracting LHA file.

This is now on /pub/nihongo on monu6.cc.monash.edu.au also.

I gave it a quick tryout. Seems ok, but:

 - the kana fonts are tiny. They seem to be 10x10 at most. IMHO the 16x16
are the bare minumum that is usable on a VGA.

 - I don't like being forced to use a kana keyboard. Although I am far from
being a romaji fan, I *am* used to driving romaji->kana keyboards (kinput,
moke,njstar, jdic, wordtank, etc.)

Anyway, well worth looking at.
-- 
Jim Breen                           JIS:$B%8%`!!%V%j!<%s(J
Department of Robotics & Digital Technology. Monash University. 
PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia (ph) +61 3 573 2552 
(fax) +61 3 573 2345  AARNet/Internet:jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au
From: jfriedl+@CS.CMU.EDU (Jeffrey Friedl)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Word Tank oddities
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:50:24 GMT
Reply-To: jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon / Omron Corporation

max@eskimo.celestial.com (Max Pinton) writes:
|> 	I finally got my Word Tank 8500, and of course am very pleased. The
|> latch seems a little weak, popping open occasionally. I pray it doesn't
|> break.

My latch was similarly weak. After a month, it stopped working.
Two weeks ago (bought it a year ago) it was in my backpack, and apparently
a pen got inside between the body and door, near the hinge. At some point
then the door got squished shut which put incredible pressure on the hinge,
breaking it completely.

I brought it to the Cannon Service Center in Osaka.  They were very kind
and were going to fix it for free.  After they noticed that I still had the
receipt and that it was less than a year old, they even offered me a loaner.

|> I did notice a couple strange entries:
|> 	The "ai" of "aite" ("partner") is under the "me" ("eye") radical on
|> the Word Tank, but under the "ki" ("tree") radical in Kanji & Kana. My vote
|> is with Kanji & Kana, since ki is on the left.

Halpern's dictionary also has it under the "eye" radical.
My impression is that both Halpern and the WordTub list some kind of
"historically official" radical, while others (Nelson, etc.) attempt to
make more sense of them.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can clarify
this?

I suppose it can be a religious thing with people that have been studying
Japanese for a long time (and to those I appologize ahead of time), but I
think that the historical 214 radicals are truly silly. Just silly.

The S&P Dictionary's use of a revised list of 76(?) radicals makes much
more sense to me.  It is both logical and consistant, neither of which are
the standard radicals (in Nelson, Halpern, WordTub, etc.).

BTW, about the Halpern dictionary.... it gives that silly historical radical
for each character, but the characters are not indexed by them (as is Nelson,
the WordTub), so it's not a drawback of the dictionary (in my opinion,
obviously).

	*jeff*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Eric Francis Friedl   jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu -or- jfriedl@omron.co.jp
Omron Corporation, Section RZE, Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo Kyoto 617, Japan
Visiting researcher to the Mach Project, Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: `silliness' of historical radicals
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organization: University of Washington
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:59:33 GMT

The traditional radical order may seem to be silly to beginners, but I can
assure you that the `reformed' radical systems such as in Spahn's book cause
endless hassles to anyone who has already learned the traditional order.  At
least Nelson cross-indexes where he made changes from the traditional order.

If you don't understand this, then try reading anything written in `reformed'
English spelling.  It's very sensible, logical -- and impossible to read for
those of use who have learned the standard `illogical' form.

Lines: 28
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 10:05:34 MDT
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: More incomprehensible Japanese sentences
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
From: luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke)

In article <1992Sep24.211557.2527@hamblin.math.byu.edu> luke@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Luke) writes:
>In the spirit of "uraniwaniwaniwa...", here's another barely decipherable
>Japanese sentence:
>
>ooooooooooo

Okay, I'm just slightly embarrassed.  The sentence would be correct (but
obscure) if you delete one of the first 'o's, and correct and unobscure if
you delete two.  The two-'o's-deleted version is:

ooooooooo

or 

oo, ou wo ooou

meaning

"oh, let's cover up the king".

There's a word "ooo" (vs. "ou" for "king") that has something to do with
tail feathers of a hawk that could be substituted for "ou" ("king") to
give one more 'o', but that's a bit obscure.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  David Luke                      "There's nothing worse than a brilliant     |
|  luke@wombat.ee.byu.edu           image of a fuzzy concept."                 |
|                                                               -- Ansel Adams |
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina)
Subject: Romaji-Kana-Kanji Converion/Editing in Unix with X11R5
Originator: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:48:47 GMT


Since there have been several questions recently about how to set up
a romaji-kana-kanji environment on Unix workstations under X11R5, I
thought I would post a summary of my personal experiences in this
area.  As you can see, while I now have a satisfactory system up
and running, I still have a few remaining questions.  If people
care to email me any additional comments, I will post a summary.
       Craig.....


OVERVIEW:

 I am running X11R5 under SunOS 4.1.1 on a Sun SPARCstation 2.

 My goal is to be able to be able to type romaji on my keyboard,
have it appear as hiragana on my screen, and then selectively
perform conversions to kanji upon it, finally storing it in a file.

METHODS:

 I have installed Wnn4.106 successfully as the engine which is to
drive the romaji-kana-kanji conversions.  (I tried to get the
alternate Canna engine running, too, but met with many roadblocks.)

  I have installed kterm-5.1.0, which allows me to view JIS-encoded
files in an xterm environment.

  I have installed jsteve1.3, which allows me to edit encoded files,
but it appears that I can only enter kanji by typing in the ASCII
equivalents of the actual JIS codes.

  I have installed onew1.6.a, which allows me to accomplish my original
goal but not within the environment of an editor.

  Within the onew1.6.a package I have installed ojstevie, which allows
me to fully accomplish my original goal by yielding a patched version of
jstevie (called ojstevie) which calls onew within a vi editior environment.

POSSIBLIITIES:

  It is possible that nemacs3.3.2 will also do this, but it may
also require skk5.30.  I have not investigated this fully.

REMAINING QUESTIONS:

  Since I installed Wnn4.106, I now have uum running as well.
Once again, it appears that I can only enter kanji by typing in the
ASCII equivalents of the actual JIS codes, but this is apparently
due to the failure of some function key remappings.

  I have kinput2 running, which I believe is supposed to perform the
functions that I want, but I don't seem to have a client which can
talk to it.

FURTHER OPTIONS:

  I have k2ps running, which allows me to print file containing both
text and JIS codes on a PostScript printer.

  I also have jenscript and kanjips running, which appear to perform
the identical function.  I am not yet sure which is preferable.

  For both of the printing packages, I have only some jisj TeX fonts,
the jis24 font, and the k14 X11 font, all of which seem to be designed
for printing only in small type.  Are any others publically available?


-- 
_______
Craig R. Bina, Asst. Prof.
Dept. of Geological Sci., Northwestern Univ.
Evanston, Illinois, craig@earth.nwu.edu
From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: jserver (was: How to use openwindows)
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:43:56 GMT
	<1992Sep25.051647.11557@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>
	<1992Sep25.213021.11568@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Sep29.203434.12287@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
In-reply-to: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk's message of 29 Sep 92 20:34:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.203434.12287@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
   (Simon Clippingdale) writes:

 =}"jserver" is not something I've heard of. Is it functionally similar to wnn?
 =}If anybody has experience of this, how does it compare with wnn and is it
 =}available by ftp?

   jserver is Wnn...  Well actually it is the kana-kanzi henkan server
from the Wnn package...
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: cali@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (cali )
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Apple StyleWriter under KanjiTalk 6.0.7?
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:08:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Oct4.020814.676
Organization: The Ohio State University


Tried the FAQ; didn't find the answer.

I have KanjinTalk 6.0.7 on my Mac, and have been using ImageWriter II printer.

Now I've got a StyleWriter and would like to get it working under KanjiTalk.

I thought I could just drag and drop the StyleWriter driver (or use the
Installer to install the driver), which came with the StyleWriter and
was said to work with 6.0.7 and up.

However, I can't print any file -- the choose saw printer, Print command
saw the printer, and when the computer sent the file to the StyleWriter,
I got the error message saying that the printer didn't behave like a
StyleWriter.

Has anyone got StyleWriter (bought in the US) working under KanjiTalk 6.0.7?
Or should I get the Japanese version of the driver?

Thank you.

- cali
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan