HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: MAPP Gas Brazing (Was Re: Fuels for brazing)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:45:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.220208.18352@sequent.com> stuartf@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
> ...
>I use a MAPP/air torch (uses disposable tanks like a propane torch)
>and I judge it acceptable but marginal and inefficient for brazing.
>Let me give you some data points:
> ... [big pieces heat slowly - read the original for details]

  I think you are being overly harsh.  MAPP gas does melt brazing
rod to the freely flowing point - and propane will not do that at all.
(I saw an ad for some special cyclone propane burner which was
supposed to do that, bit *my* simple propane torch will only get
brazing rod to the pasty stage.)  So the only problem is the size
of the object - and the resulting heat loss - which determine the
upper limit of what can be brazed.  When I've had to braze something
big, I added the flame of my propane torch to the object in my
firebrick "cave" and it really helped a lot.  However note that the
size of the MAPP torch burner also determines how much heating it 
does.

  I have an old Sears MAPP torch with a small and a large burner
heads.  The small one is *very* nice for small stuff.  The larger
one looks to me to have a bigger flame than some other MAPP torches
I've seen - so it may be that it does produce more total heat.  I
done many small household and automotive repairs by brazing with
it, so I'm not nearly as discouraged as is Stuart.

  I think that MAPP is an Airco trademark, and that there are other
essentially equivalent fuels called "High Temp. Fuel" which might
be a generic name.

  Does anyone know about these cyclone type heads which supposedly
give higher tempertures?

--henry schaffer
From: rey@safn2.UUCP (rey)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Al and Steel : some questions
Summary: avoid chromic acid anodizing
	 hard anodizing is something else
Keywords: metal, hitting, lasting, color, uhm...
Date: 7 Jan 93 04:08:35 GMT
Organization: Southern Aluminum Finishing, Atlanta, GA

In article <1993Jan5.163741.6394@unet.net.com>, rmt@pioneer.net.com (Richard Tweedie) writes:
> HOw about hard Chromic anodizing?  I have been using that method for
> parts
> on the airplane (thorp T-18 Tiger) that I am building.
> 
> Chromic anodizing is **MUCH** harder than sulphuric anodizing, and goes
> to
> a greater depth.  It also is the best anti-corrosion treatment for 
> aluminum that I am aware of.

The results of anodizing are very alloy dependant. Chromic acid
anodizing is a thin anodic coat that is used on aircraft for the
following reasons:
	1) Mixed alloy assemblys all get coated equally (.0001 in).
		With sulfuric acid anodizing (conventional) the more conductive
		alloy in the bath may rob all the current from
		the other less bath conductive parts. 
 	2) Accidentally entraped chromic acid will not cause the
		damage to an air frame when it leaks out that
		entrapped sulfuric acid will cause.
	3) It gives a pleasing green/yellow/grey uniform appearance.

Sulfuric acid anodizing gives a harder, more corrosion resistant,
	thicker (.0007 in) film.

Hard anodizing is something else. A thick .002-.008 in film
	produced in cold surfuric acid. It may look grey, and
	similar to chromic acid anodizing. Either type of
	anodizing might be historically correct for a plane.

We do not apply chromic acid anodizing because of the environmental
	damage wreaked by chromium.

Anodizing should be considered in the design of a part. When applyed
	as an afterthought, processing problems often arrise.
	It is very cost efficient (compared to paint) for
	sheet and extrusions, less so for manufactured assemblies.
	Costs for custom anodizing are usually as much as the
	material + fabrication cost of an assembly.

Anodizing is the ultimate in abrasion, and weather resistance.
 If I had some aluminum armour, I would paint my arms on it.

Hope this digression is imformative.
-- 
Reynolds McClatchey (Southern Aluminum Finishing Co, Atlanta, GA, USA)
Architectural Aluminum. Custom Fabrication. Paint, Powder Coating, Anodizing.
MCImail 414-2935  Voice 404-355-1560  Fax 404-350-0581
uunet!safn2!rey			KD4SIJ				rey@saf.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: xdepec@chevy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (preston e chaney jr)
Subject: Brass Casting 
Organization: Oryx Energy 
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:22:43 GMT

I am interested is casting a Brass Western style belt buckle.
To this end I made a woodcarving of the design and made a 
plaster of paris (negative) mold of the woodcarving. As a test
I melted linotype metal with a welding torch and dripped it into
the mold with satisfactory results. I am now wondering if I can
cast brass ( at 1700+ deg.) into a plaster mold. Also is there a special
Brass for casting or can I melt brass rod. Is the temp critical or 
can I melt the brass in a crucible with the welding torch and pour.
If special supplies are required for casting where can they be obtained.
 
Thanks
Preston Chaney
Email pchaney@oryx.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: okunewck@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Phil OKunewick)
Subject: Re: How to tin-coat a Copper or Brass pan
Keywords: tin, copper, brass, pan
Organization: Random, at best
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:50:48 GMT


    For a long-term coating, you might contact a professional
electroplater.  They would be able to tell you what metals would be
best to put on the pot.  (Gold would be great, if you could afford
it. :-)  They can also plate the pot in a thickness that would last
a _long_ time - one plating would be more expensive than a marketplace
tinner, but may last long enough to be cheaper in the long run.

   Out of the frying pan; into the fire - just make sure that your
plating isn't more unhealthy than the original metal.

   I don't know whether copper salts are unhealthy, but I don't think
they are.  I've heard that there may be some basis to the old wives'
tale about copper bracelets helping arthritis - copper oxides may
actually reduce the pain.  But there's also a matter of flavor - I can
imagine that something simmered in a copper pot for long periods would
taste a little funny.

   Lead and Zinc are nasty.  Zinc is one of the metals in brass - any
acid (like vinegar in salad dressing) will pull the zinc out of the
brass and into your food.  Lead is found in many solders; most states
no longer permit lead solder to be used in plumbing, but it's still
available for general use.  If you tin the pot yourself, make sure you
use a LEAD-FREE tinning substance.

   Lead-free solder is available from any plumbing supplier.  With a
little flux it'll go right onto a copper or brass pot.  I don't know
how durable it will be, nor do I know what other metals are in it.
Does anybody out there know?
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Chrome plating
From: <JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 6 Jan 1993 11:03:11 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

   Your mention of old tools having spotty and flaking chrome plating made
me think that oftentimes old case hardening is mistaken for old plating.
This is especially true for old guns which were commonly color case hardened.
The colors fade and the action of rust and corrosion sometimes cause the
case hardened skin to flake making it look like plating.

   Just my $.02

Michael Gordon
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Al and Steel : some questions
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:43:33 GMT

tarumph@uncc.edu (Timothy Allen Rumph) writes:
: >
: There was some naturally occuring Al used for show armour that is period. It was very
:      rare though, since aluminum was more valuable than gold at that time. This may
:      seem strange but Al is made by applying large amounts of electricity to bauxite,
:      only a recent development.

Are you sure about this? I do not recall ever reading about any elemental
aluminum ever being found. 

... delided ...

: Waxes and oils are your best bets. The rust resistant treatments work mostly by making
:      the rust not fall off rather than preventing it in the first place. Also, any 
:      plating is not period (no electricity.)

Not quite true. Rust forms when iron is exposed to oxygen and moisture. If
either is absent, then rusting does not occur. Rust treatments block either
air or moisture (or both) from reaching the iron. It is best to get rid of
any rust that is present before the treatment is applied - since it is not
firmly attached to the iron, and can flake off - exposing the iron to the
environment.
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Westec '93
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:03:35 GMT
Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net

Westec '93 "North America's Largest Annual Metalworking and Manufacturing Show"
will be held March 22-25 at the Los Angeles Convention Center. Save yourself
the $15 admission get free tickets now (800) 733-4763.

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
(I'm not affiliated with Westec in any way, I just saw the add in an 
Enco sale catalog and friends have gone in the past and say it is very
good.)
From: noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu (Alexander Noordergraaf)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Welding aluminmum bellhousing
Keywords: welding, aluminum, help
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:31:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	Howdy all,

	I finally finished taking apart the transmission on a friends '88 
Honda CRX Si. At some point in its life an object hit the underside of the 
aluminum bell housing hard enough to break off a small piece and cause a
inch long crack.  Since the housing is out anyway (for a new clutch) I 
would like to repair this damage. I have access to both arc and oxy/acetylene
welding. Which would be better? I looked up aluminum welding in the 
Lincoln Arc Welding Reference book I have and they don't mention 
arc welding with aluminum. Can I successfully weld aluminum with arc or
gas? What type or rod/filler should I use? The area that should be
filled is less than an inch square.

	Any and all advice appreciated, Alex (noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Charlie Stone 4915162)
Subject: Re: Ramp Ball Clock
Organization: Network Computer Centre, Telecom, Perth
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:46:24 GMT

In article <1ik73nINNrpn@news.cerf.net> jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:
>In article <57520@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> norm@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Norm Carpenter x3055) writes:
Stuff deleted>>balls except one which goes to the hours ramp.  At noon and midnight, the
>>whole thing makes a lot of noise.  
>>
>>Have any of you seen plans describing this clock?
>
>Isn't this also called a marble clock?
>
>I believe this is a congrave clock (I think, I hope...). John Wilding has a book

A Congreve clock has only one ball that follows a zig zag path down a
seesaw type inclined ramp.  When it gets to the bottom, the ramp tilts and
the ball starts it trip back.

Charlie Stone,
Perth, Western Australia

cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au
From: cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Copper plating
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:08:42 GMT
Organization: ExuCom Multimedia Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Jeffrey Copeland (copeland@lamar.ColoState.EDU) wrote:
: what was the material or was the soft solder a major portion?

The material was brass.

: was the sooty stuff sandlike grains that easily rubbed off,  if so
: sounds like you burned it (to much current)
	More like a carbonaceous deposit.  

: try  24oz copper sulfate
:      5-8 oz sulfuric acid
:      1 gallon distilled water
:      1/10 oz molasses (brightens the copper and decreases its grainines
: 			trust me)
	Industrial recipe! :) thank goodness CuSo4 is cheap :)

:      use a low voltage 1-10 volts
:      very low amperage <2amps

	ahhhh I seee :)  opps I'll try the train transformer and a
multimeter for better acuracy.  I was using A BEAST of a transform (15
amp).

Cyberman 
-- 
This is my sig file!
Read rec.games.programer!
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: re: Rio Grande tools catalog
Originator: hes@sparcler.cc.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:44:02 GMT

  I just talked to them, and the catalog is almost ready.  It
is scheduled to ship next week to the East Coast.  I'll post
a note about it if someone doesn't beat me to it.

--henry schaffer
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Copper plating
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 09:10:10 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips) writes:


>I was attempting to copper plate soft soldered material with copper
>using copper sulfate a copper anode and a the object as the cathode.

>The result was a black sooty substance instead of Cu!  

>1:	I was using electronics solder 60/40 (or is it 40/60?)
>2:	I used tap water to mix the CuSo4 solution.  
>3:	I am using a variable current at 30 volts.
>4:	I have no clue to EXACTLY what I'm doing.

Way too much voltage/current.

I have set up a copper plating facility for my wife to use to plate
the lead came on certain kinds of stained glass work.  Here's my
mix:

To a gallon of water, add one lb copper sulfate.  I use root killer
(chunk copper sulfate) from the plumbing store because it is so cheap.
After the CuSO4 is dissolved using heat if necessary, add 2 cups of
sulfuric acid battery acid.  I buy Quail brand battery acid from
the local auto parts store in cardboard cased plastic bags.

Anode should be copper and of about the same surface area as the 
work (cathode).  Voltage should be around 3 volts.  Current is 
normally set as amps per unit area but since surface area is hard
to compute/measure, I just experiment until the finish is bright and
non-porous.  I have read that some sugar in the solution will brighten
the copper but I've not tried it.  For typical objects that will fit
in the 10 gal aquarium we use as a plating tank, a pair of D-cells
in series will plate many objects.

Cleanliness is absolutely vital.  Even a fingerprint will leave the
surface blemished and dark.  For stained glass objects, I first wash
the object in saturated baking soda solution to neutralize any acid
flux remaining.  I then wash in Alconox, a very strong laboratory
glassware cleaning detergent.  After rinsing and drying, I wipe 
all surfaces with a clean rag soaked in 1,1,1 trichloroethane in order
to remove any residual grease and/or flux.  Go immediately to the 
plating bath to avoid oxidation.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: earl@phred.UUCP (choo choo earl)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: plating
Keywords: plating
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:46:05 GMT
Organization: Physio Control Corp., Seattle WA

Hi there.  
I posted this a while ago, but I think our news server was down.
I have a small brass reflector for a lamp I need to plate with something 
shiny.  I talked to the local plating shops, but they have a minimum price 
of $35 which is WAY more than this project is worth.  I'm looking for a way 
to plate silver, tin, or nickel that doesn't involve TOO nasty chemicals.  
I have had limited success with using used photo fixer for silver plating, 
but the results have not been good.  
Let me know if you have some ideas for a project like this.  I will 
summarize the results (if any).
earl@phred.uucp

-- 
DIG A DUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK DIG A GEODUCK DIG A DUCK A DAY
earl@phred      Physio Control Corp.   Redmond Wa   (206)867-4255
I find when I work on the computer too long I have this uncontrolable
urge to eat Twinkies, drink Coke, and wear funny sandals.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Some Interesting Books
From: <JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 11 Jan 1993 19:41:43 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

    Some books I haven't seen mentioned yet are the series written by
Guy Lautard: "The Machinist's Bedside Reader"  and "The Machinist's
Second Bedside Reader".  Lautard has also written a number of other
books target specifically towards the hobby machinest and to a lesser
extent towards gunsmiths.  He has even written a novel for machinists.
I bought "Tha Machinist's Bedside Reader" several years ago after
reading a raving review in "Rifle" magazine.  Recently I ordered the
sequel.

   In case you're interested the author sells these books directly
and his address is:
     Guy Lautard
     2570 Rosebery Avenue
     West Vacouver, B.C. Canada  V7V 2Z9
-------
MICHAEL F. GORDON
JCEHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
From: Bathsheba.Grossman@launchpad.unc.edu (Bathsheba Grossman)
Subject: Re: hard silver brazing stainless steel+brass (Q)
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:23:13 GMT

In article <hank.726698349@well.sf.ca.us> hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts) writes:
>After years of making mobiles out of brass rod and sheet, using hard
>silver brazing, I'm starting to use thin stainless steel rod.
...
>It seems apparent I need a whole separate set of pliers and files -- the
>stainless eats'em up fast and gouges them so I won't use'em on soft metal
>again.  Are there hand tools strong enough to nip through and file stainless
>steel, that anyone can recommend?

I'd love to know this too.

Also, does anyone know about the casting properties of stainless as opposed
to, say, Everdur bronze?  E.g. shrinkage, porosity, flowability, hardened
surface, whatever.  I just discovered a local foundry that does
stainless and want to have some small (<1 foot diameter) sculpture
done; obviously, finishing is going to be problematic.

-Sheba

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: vporguen@unlinfo.unl.edu (victor porguen)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Question about this Newsgroup
Date: 5 Jan 1993 03:58:18 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller) writes:

>It seems clear that we need at least one more newsgroup, where those who choose
>to pursue the discussion about the meaning and implications of the word "craft"
>can do so without wasting bandwidth in the metalworking group.

>I propose the title:

> "rec.crafts.metalworking.asinine_discussions_about_the_name_of_the_newsgroup"

>(or should that be:

> "rec.metalworking.asinine_discussions_about_the_name_of_the_newsgroup" ?)



I agree!  As the one who started this thread, I'd like to point out 
that I simply wanted to know how old the newsgroup was, since I had 
started to receive its articles only recently. I was just being 
curious. I am sorry that my simple question has degenerated into this
sort of discussion, much as some may think it is appropriate here.

Why don't we all just end it at this point? Please.
From: nivek@cs.cmu.edu (Kevin Dowling)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Chrome plating
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:18:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0FrrH.572.2
Reply-To: nivek@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon

I've been restoring some old tools mainly through painstaking cleaning,
wirebrushing and repainting. Some parts however were originally chrome-plated
but the plating is now spotty. I can easily wirebrush it off but wonder if there is
a low cost, low overhead way of chrome-plating the pieces.

Pointers or information? Thanks.
					nivek



---

aka: Kevin Dowling			Carnegie Mellon University
tel: (412) 268-8830			The Robotics Institute
adr: nivek@ri.cmu.edu			Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account)
Subject: Re: Fuels for brazing (was: Firepot on a forge (coal/gas/charcoal))
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:17:15 EST

In article <16B51115B0.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.220208.18352@sequent.com>
>stuartf@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
> 
>>In article <74160001@hpcss01.cup.hp.com> markw@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Mark Williams) writes:

>>I'd like very much to hear more about acetylene/air and other
>>setups that can heat larger masses for brazing.  Is there
>>such a thing as a propane/forced-air or MAPP/forced-air torch?

Yes, you can buy such things, with heat outputs (and fuel consumption)
as high as the amount of money you want to shell out. Want to braze
an engine block? No problem. Go to a local weldeing supply house and
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: How to tin-coat a Copper or Brass pan
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:01:21

Re tin-coating a copper or brass [sic] pan, in article
<C03Gps.M2r@world.std.com> moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)
writes:

   There is a chemical available at electronics stores intended to plate copper
   printed circuit boards with tin.  Should work with a pan.

1) Such industrial products are not intended for use in contact with
food.  They may or may not contain ingredients which are unhealthy,
including lead, cyanide, etc.  Even if such substances are not part of
the formula for the product, they may be present as side-products of
its manufacture.

2) Brass is not normally used for food.

3) Tinning a pan is actually fairly easy.  Essentially, you melt pure
tin in the pan, and swab it around with a rag.  Well, it looks easy
when a pro does it.  I doubt it is actaully as easy to do as it looks.

4) The best copper pans these days are lined with stainless steel (as
are the best aluminum pans, for that matter).  Nickel was used for a
while as an improvement over tin, but I believe that it is no longer
used.  Stainless steel is not melted onto the surface, but bonded (I
don't know how) in sheet form.  This is an industrial process.
Stainless-lined copper pots are expensive, but work well and never
need re-tinning.

	-s
From: markf@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:56:13 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu

Thanks to all for the tips and advice.  Think I'll digest the info for a while,
then make a few calls (the Siever-matic torch sounds like the thing, but I'll
see what Rio Grande has too).

God, I _love_ this group!