HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu (Jim Wong)
Subject: Re: OS/2 vs Mac
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:50:35 GMT

In article <celZfi200VRBQ=B5NR@andrew.cmu.edu> fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat) writes:
>
>the difference being that when an application crashes on sys7 it is
>likely to hang the entire system, so command-option-escape is only of
>use if it locks up internally, whereas on os/2 if the application goes
>down bad the os will probably block it before it vomits all over the
>place, and if it crashes but doens't die or get killed off by the os
>you can still use a key combination to kill it.

"likely"? I don't think so.  About 90% of the time an application dies on
my Mac, I get an "The application "blah" has unexpectedly quit" dialog
and  end up in the Finder.  Are your assertions base on anthing resembling
actual experience or merely hearsay?

-- 
Jim Wong (jimwong@owlnet.rice.edu)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec324.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:03:23 GMT

In article <D2150025.phghrd@spumco.cts.com>, dvan@spumco.cts.com (David Vandeven) writes:
[deletia- OSA]

[deletia- AppleScript]
|> > > It hardly delivers system-level power.
|> > 
|> > In what way?
|> 
|> It doesn't give access to system globals and such. (Like Frontier.)

Care to go into more details, for us non-Frontier types?
What system globals can Frontier access? I presume you don't mean
being able to adjust the value in Ticks or something like that.

[deletia- multitasking stuff that I dont feel like dealing with right now]
-- 
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
From: dvan@spumco.cts.com (David Vandeven)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:01:53 GMT
Reply-To: whoever posted this thread first
Organization: SPUMCO:Better living through wasted time
X-Mailer: uAccess - Mac Release: 1.5


In article <ibhan.717866484@husc10>, ibhan@husc10.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) writes:

> I don't personally care about CLI, but preemptive multitasking, memory
> protection, and scripting are definitely plusses.  Here's how it stands
> now, from what I've heard:
> Preemptive multitasking, memory protection: will exist by the time the
> PowerPC's appear (about a year).  Will it be in the form of PINK or a new
> System 7?  I don't know.  I don't care.  As long as I have it!
> Scripting: Will be an extension to System 7.  Already in beta testing. 
> Should be out late this year/early next year.
> 

If Pink is as bad as AppleScript, forget it, I'll go buy a NeXT.

;) 


 David Vandeven    ********************************************************
Systems Progammer  *   "I don't believe in Pinochle, I don't believe I'll *
    Deadhead       * try: I do believe in Captain Crunch, for I am the    *
    Cyberpunk      * Frizzle Fry!"  (dvan@spumco.cts.com)      *PRIMUS!*  *
Zen Agnostic Guru  ********************************************************
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why Macs are better (and the others aren't) (long)
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:04:10 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep24.234840.13071@unlv.edu> edcrwfrd@unlv.edu (Edward Crawford) writes:
>
>Damn, your right... My mac can't read ibm 5 1/4 inch disks without
>a 5 1/4 inch drive.... G'zs... my mac truelly must suck. I wish
>i could just add a 5 1/4 inch drive but you said that would be
>cheating... Oh well.. I guess that means the PC's at my work must
>be equally cruddy because they dont have 5 1/4s, (and others
>dont have 3.5's) g'zs but it would be cheating to add one...
>and not many machines have CD players standard, so we cant
>count those... Oh and dont forget, Most macs dont come
>with a keyboard, so that has to be a big draw back.
>Hmm... most of my software didnt come with my machine, so
>i shouldn't count that...
>
>You get the point... 

Try folding the 5.25" disk in half and inserting it in.  A couple
of years ago, a computer dealer (who is now out of business) was
telling customers that workaround for Mac stuff.  He also said
that if you have both serial ports up, you could just get
a 50/50 parallel cable for your printer, and hook it up
to the Mac's SCSI port...

He later nailed a SyQuest drive because the drive was to noisy
so he opened up the flap on the cartridge and dropped graphite
lubricant in there to quiet the noise.  Ouch.

Enjoy :-)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
******* ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd) ******
------------------------------------------------------------
|            (Insert standard disclaimer here)             |
|  I would rather have a frontal lobotomy than Windows NT! |
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Interesting Performa specs
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:50:34 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Oct2.162118.507@leland.Stanford.EDU> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:

>Just saw an Office Depot ad featuring the Performa 200 in the SF  
>Chronicle.  $1199 for a 4/80 system; not bad.

>The interesting part was in the list of specs, right among '80MB hard  
>disk' and the like was the entry 'MS-DOS compatible.'

Might even be true if they're bundling SoftPC with it.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 04:31:26 GMT

boyd@apple.com (scott boyd) writes:
>
>Threading models are available and in use on the Macintosh now.
>

I notice that you use the plural.  Does this mean that there is something
available other than that threading system that was in DEVELOP a couple
of years ago (the one that copied the stack on a thread switch)?

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ifenton@crc.ac.uk (I. Fenton)
Subject: 24 hours of advocacy...
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:10:09 GMT

dear net,

looking at teh various advocacy groups here, i notice what 24 hours worth
of advocacy leads to :-

  comp.os.os2         103 postings (mostly os/2 vs. windows-nt)
  comp.sys.amiga       89 postings (mostly amiga vs. atari falcon)
  comp.sys.mac         62 postings (mostly mac vs. pc's)
  comp.os.mw-windows   24 postings (mostly is windows an os ?)
  comp.sys.next        15 postings (mostly should nextstep be cheaper)
  comp.sys.acorn        5 postings (mostly about acorn's share price)

as can be seen most of the discussion is about one system vs. another, rather
than discussion about that particular os/system.  this is interesting as most
groups have their zealots saying that other people should leave their group
alone.  does the net have any comment on these figures ?!


=============================================================================
IAIN FENTON                             | All errors of spelling, grammar &
Institute of Medical Genetics           | fact are due to a missing <Del> key
University of Wales College of Medicine |====================================
Heath Park                              | "No man should marry until he has
Cardiff  CF4 4XN                        |  studied anatomy and dissected at
U.K.                                    |  least one woman" - de Balzac
=============================================================================
Voice = +44 - 222 - 744049   | In 1912, Jack Johnson, the first black world
Fax   = +44 - 222 - 747603   | heavyweight boxing champion, was refused
Email = fenton@uk.ac.cardiff | permission to board the Titanic because of
   (or) wmgif@uk.ac.cardiff  | his colour.
   (or) ifenton@uk.ac.crc    |
=============================================================================


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: nastasi@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (joseph.l.nastasi)
Subject: Re: KILLFILE CLUB!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:31:27 GMT
Summary: blenders and macs
Keywords: KILL!,DEATH,BANANA

In article <dvan.716859771@crash>, dvan@crash.cts.com (David Vandeven) writes:

> 
> Most Macintosh users should have bought a blender.  I, as a consultant, have
> answered some stupid questions on the platforms I have supported, but NEVER have
> I seen the level of stupidity which Mac users display.  
> 

Probably true, but if their only choice was a hopelessly complex
(in their eyes) PC or a Amiga or Atari that had a very limited 
set of available applications, they might have bought a blender
after all!


> Perfunctory at best, but maybe someone will flame me.


Flame, nah!  People are dying every minute.  I could never
take any of this stuff seriously enough to get THAT excited
about it!

> You down wit OOP?
>  Yeah, you know C!

Oh yes!  I'm not really a RAP nut, but  I love this song.
Now I can sing your version and really get strange looks... :-)

Cheers,
Joe Nastasi
AT&T, Middletown, NJ
(908) 957-6365 7am-4pm EST M-F
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!)
Subject: Re: When is a CLI faster than a GUI?
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:38:40 GMT
Organization: MSD software vault #9 @THD

In article <1992Oct1.202130.27323@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> ccw@prefect.uucp (26554-wood) writes:
>NOT!!!
>
>In article <1992Sep30.235029.3723@news.th-darmstadt.de> wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!) writes:
>
>Where have you been?  (this group is such a fun flame-fest!)  Have you
>not heard of the "Apple Menu" on a macintosh?  With System 7, which has
>only been out for a year now (maybe more...) it's trivial to add an
>application to the apple menu, and once you do, it's a single menu
>selection that's _always_ available.  Easier than setting up a path,
>too!  Because if you move the folder in which the application resides,
>you don't have to do _anything_.  The apple menu still works.  It'll
>work even if the application is on a volume mounted over the network.
>
>Chris
Well how many apps can you stick in there, a dozen, twenty a hundred ?

Nat!
-- 
 -----   Email: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de  -----
                "Bang that bit that doesn't bang"                 
 Album of the month: "Psalm 69" Ministry

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: hyongel@cco.caltech.edu (Hyong Chol Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh emulation on Amiga
Date: 3 Oct 1992 23:58:06 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>In article <sjmzdg+@rpi.edu> johnsd2@rpi.edu writes:
>> In article <1992Oct01.012900.5186@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>> |> What, you *can't* run color software on a B&W Mac? I thought Mac had
>> |> this device independence stuff down pat!

>> You were mistaken. 68020, 030 and so on Macs do, but 68000 based macs
>> do not. They only support a few color commands (and not the right ones,
>> imho.).

>But my Amiga has a 68030.
>-- 

But unless you're using the fabled emplant, you're using Mac Plus Roms in an
Amax, which don't have color support because they were written for a bw
machine.

>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
> `-_-'   "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
>  'U`  


-- 
				- hyong
hyongel@punisher.cco.caltech.edu
"You do not like them. So you say. Try them! Try them! And you may.
Try them and you may, I say.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: coolidge@sirius.aux.apple.com (John L. Coolidge)
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:12:02 GMT
Reply-To: coolidge@apple.com
Organization: Open Systems Development, Porting&I/O Group, Apple Computer, Inc.

tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>dvan@spumco.cts.com (David Vandeven) writes:
>>Apple better get on the ball.  System 7.1 lacks some of the basic features
>>that define a REAL operating system.  Where is Memory protection?  A
>>system level scripting language that isn't third party?  Preemptive
>>multitasking?  Command-line shells?  All these are things that Apple has
>>been promising us for years.

>I strongly agree with all the above.  After working alot with Unix I can
>really see the Macs weaknesses in these areas. A marriage of the Mac user
>interface and Unix functionality would be an unbeatable combination.

It's here, it's called A/UX 3.0, and it is indeed an unbeatable
combination. It's a real pity that more people aren't using it...

--John

        What do you do [...] when you list all the qualities that you
        despise / And you realize you're describing yourself
                -- Marillion, "The Rake's Progress", _Holidays_In_Eden
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: When is a CLI faster than a GUI?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:25:18 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Sep29.004928.26815@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Marc VanHeyningen" <mvanheyn@mango.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

>>>A non-ASCII .txt file?  Whoever created that should be shot!  
>>
>>Well, we could start with IBM, then.  Have you ever heard of EBSDIC?

>No.  What is EBSDIC?
>Is it related to EBCDIC in some way?

Yes, but misspelled.  Another example of the fact that people
are indeed fallible.  The protestations of CLI advocates to the
contrary notwithstanding.

>It it related to the issue of .txt files in UN*X in any way?

Yes.  EBCDIC text files can be transferred to a UNIX machine.
In which case, the UNIX machine's file system would then contain
text files that are not ASCII.  This is called "networking."

>Is it related to the issue of whether Macs suck in any way?
>Or is it just the millionth example of a lame pedantic argument in a
>thread full of them, mostly hurled by one person?

No, just another example of a snot-nosd student trying to take
a cheap shot and making a fool of himself instead. 

>\begin{not-to-be-taken-seriously}
>Suppose you are addressing a subordinate in how to do something you want
>done.  You are in a hurry, and want to express the idea quickly.  Which
>of the following two subordinates is more valuable to you in this
>situation:

>- The one who takes a pithy textual description of the task and performs
>  it immediately.  "Get coffee from 332-G."
>- The one who requests you express the task to be done by playing
>  charades, making particular movements to represent "go to room",
>  selecting the room 332-G from a lengthy list, making gestures indicating
>  that "coffee" is the thing you want him to get (or perhaps pointing to
>  a little picture of coffee on a poster of lots of different items.)

No, subordinate number three, who is bright enough to draw a map
so that you can actually find Room 332-G.

Subordinate number three is actually a bright guy.  His name is "Mac."
From: fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu (Faisal Nameer Jawdat)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Trepidations of a potential mac-user
Date: 27 Sep 92 01:51:52 GMT
	<6042.2ac32a2f@hayes.com>
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
> Now the stupid part. You know that all programmers do? You guessed it, they
> name their files <whatever>.c. Duh. Tradition.

reasons to name things with standard suffixes
1.  so the project is organized like any other project for that
language, thus any programmer can look at it regardless of whether he
is a mac weenie
2.  so that if one moves the files to another system one can recompile
without having to remember what's a library and what's a this and
what's a that
3.  because it's much easier to put .c on the end of anything than to
write 'source code'
4.  portability
5.  space
6.  ease of use - programmers are used to seeing .c on the end of
source, etc.
7.  so quiche eaters get confused (see footnote 1)

i could bother to explain why this whole theory is bunk, but i've had
to do it 4 times in the past two weeks, so three days ago i went and
looked up the kill file system for our stupid mail system and now i
just KILL people who tell me that it's easier to do everything with a
mouse

the gist?
cat /etc/passwd | grep firstname | awk userid | finger | mailc me
obviously it's pseudocode
it's an alias that we wrote
i'd have the real thing but our f*cking file servers are down for some
bloody reason and i can't access much of anything (thank god for local
disk caching)
it takes 2 tenths of a second to type and execute
i get the output in less than 2 minutes typically, and i don't notice
it while it processes
this would take hours in a gui, unless you had the gui ask the user
for a string to manipulate things

An ideal GUI lets you use multiple CLI's (command line interface)
along with multiple GIA (Graphically Interative Application's (to coin
an acronym - boost my ego, start using it)) at once, so you can do
things like this while maintaining all the advantages of a gui.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: johnsd2@vccsouth07.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Why Macs are better (and the others aren't)
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:01:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct05.025346.25485@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
|> In article <ddpzjd+@rpi.edu> johnsd2@rpi.edu writes:
|> > Well, the short answer is that people!=applications. But that would
|> > be an obnoxious thing to say, now wouldn't it?
|> 
|> Well, my response to your response is that windows != applications. To be
|> precise:
|> 
|> > To be precise, w/ people if they all are recieving all your
|> > speach (ie they are all listening), they can figure out for themselves
|> > what is meant for them and what is not. Applications aren't so smart-
|> > if they were all in teh foreground, and you tyed "42",
|> > your spreadsheet and your calculator and your word processor and
|> > your File Manager would all thing it was for them,
|> 
|> No, only the application that happened to have the active window open.
|> 
|> You need to have a "current input stream", but it's not the same thing
|> as a "foreground application". The primary application of interest is
|> often not the one that owns the currently active window.

Well, the names have been changed to protect the innocent, as they say. :)

To be blatant, in the Mac, "current input stream" DOES equal "foreground
application". Its the way the event manager works.

However, I do think its annoying the way all the windows a document
have to be together, in a layer. :(

-- 
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:12:05 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <BvG7G8.86D@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>>In article <BvDFMz.K7F@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>>> dvan@spumco.cts.com (David Vandeven) writes:
>>> 
>>> I strongly agree with all the above.  After working alot with Unix I can
>>> really see the Macs weaknesses in these areas. A marriage of the Mac user
>>> interface and Unix functionality would be an unbeatable combination.  
>>
>>It's called A/UX. So far it hasn't sold much.
>
> Wrongo.  AUX 3.0 is better than before but it's still a kludge of the Mac OS
> and Unix.  Almost as bad as Windows running on top of DOS and with alot of
> the same weaknesses.  But then you knew that didn't you.

A/UX is not like Windows. A/UX does *NOT* run on top of the MacOS. A/UX 
runs the MacOS as a SUBPROCESS.

Of course, you haven't actually used A/UX, have you?

A/UX looks a lot like Unix, with some nice Mac features in the user
interface and borrowed from MPW's command line interface. Of course, its
main problem is, it is still Unix. <grin>

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: cj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Carl B Jabido)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why Macs are better (and the others aren't) (long)
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:32:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.AenYaTW00iUxI4mmMP
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.advocacy: 3-Oct-92 Re: Why Macs are
better (an.. by Wolfgang Strobl@gmd.de 
> >>Anyway, I only questioned the validity of the argument: the Mac
> >>is better, because it can understand PC disks, but the PC cant
> >>understand Mac disks. 
>  
> >>Both systems are only able to process a subset of the disks which
> >>are in use on the other side, and need additional hardware
> >>support to read all the other ones.
>  
> >Well, I think the 3.5" PC format is fairly standard now, and the Mac, [...]
>  
> Well, I think that you think that whatever the Mac has is 
> fairly standard now. 

There is a program, shareware in fact, which lets you read Mac disks. 
Only high-density because Mac drives change speed for other sizes.  So
the whole point is moot.