HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cone threw how many pitches?
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:56:39 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <20218@bunker.shel.isc-br.com> jerry@bunker.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald J. Lanza) writes:
>|>
>|>Besides, the game was different then.  Pitchers didn't go all out
>|>on every pitch.  Probably less stressful.
>
>	Now that's a scientific statement if I ever saw one. May I ask
>	how one arrives at the conclusion that the game was less
>	stressful for pitcher's back then ?

How about, because the pitchers themselves have said so.

Almost every pitcher from before WW2, when interviewed, said that he didn't
try to throw hard except in important situations (such as men on base, or
late innings of a close game).  They all talked about how incredible Walter
Johnson was because he was *different*, and *did* throw hard on every pitch.
(Although even Johnson said that he let up with the bases empty, and only
bore down when he needed to.)

>	The fact of the matter is that pitcher's pitched every fourth
>	game, and therefore had one less day of rest between games. 

If you'd been following along, you would have noticed that the evidence
(as in "The Diamond Appraised") shows that how many pitches you throw per
outing is a more significant determinant of wear than is the frequency of
starts.  4 days vs. 5 days doesn't make much difference; it's pitches you
throw after your arm is already tired, especially before the age of 25, 
that burn you out.


-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:54:58 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

>Luck is random. The "slippery essence ... " is superstar A giving
>it 100% even when he's so tired he wants to sit down, while
>superstar B, in the same situation, does not.  It is people playing
>when hurt.  Or, to take an example from another sport, it is
>Willis Reed, barely able to walk, coming back to play after going down 
>with a nasty injury: the Lakers were dead as soon as he walked out
>out on the court.

or it's me, in the finals of a team squash match, playing with an
 almost broken left toe in the final game, when it was suggested i not
 play, since i couldn't run.

oh, wait, what?  we didn't win that?  oh, geez.

history has a way of glorifying those events, proclaiming the "lakers were dead"
 when
 that happens, but ignoring the other side of the coin.  it's happened
 before, where the injured guy comes out,plays 10 minutes (or 20?) lik
e reed did, sits down, and is team isthe worse for it, since he couldn't
 play as well as the uninjured guy on thebench, or whatever reason.

- bob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kaufman@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Ken Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Strike 1 on Commissioner
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:01:28 GMT

In article <5117@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.101912@IASTATE.EDU> jkness@IASTATE.EDU (Joel K  
>Ness) writes:
 
>> What makes more sense Cubbie fans, Atlanta in the NL west or your Cubs?
>> This is really stupid!!!  Waaa  Waaaa


> Which city is closer to Pittsburgh, New York, Montreal, and the other
> Eastern cities?

Which city *is* an Eastern city?  Which city is closer to Denver, LA,
and the other Western Division cities?

==Ken
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Fay Vincent ruling
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <92206.104251JGARLITZ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JGARLITZ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>Today I read in the paper that the circuit court judge upheld Chicago's
>block to move out of the Nation League West Division to the East Division.
>I support Fay Vincent's decision to move Chicago and Atlanta to the East
>Division.  Really....what business does Atlanta and Chicago have being in
>the West Division? 

I'm afraid that you are only half-right. Atlanta and Cincinatti 
are supposed to move from the West to the East and Chicago and
St. Louis are to move from the East to the West.
From: daniel@acpub.duke.edu (Daniel Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: NY Mets vs. L.A. Dodgers Question...
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:12:57 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

To all the baseball gurus on the network:

	A quick question about one inning in the Mets vs. the Dodgers
game on Monday night:  What is the rule concerning Howard Johnson's
reach for first on a strikeout when the catcher apparently missed the
pitch? 
	I've never seen anything like this before.  Is it that if the
catcher doesn't touch the ball on the third strike (or any strike, for
that matter) that it doesn't count as a strike?  I was confused and the
ESPN announcers didn't take the time to explain the situation.
	Any answers will be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Daniel Crawford
Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry
University of Georgia
Athens, GA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dmeister@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Darren Meister)
Subject: Re: Dome plays foul on Jack Clark :-):-):-)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:56:31 GMT

In article <Brr0Ht.ArK@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> pfferrei@laplace.waterloo.edu (Paulo Ferreira) writes:
>In article <19223@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
>>Boston DH, Jack Clark had a very bad taste of the Metrodome
>>in the top of the 9th. With 1 out and runners in the corners,
>>Jack Clark was at the plate. On a 3-2 count from Agiluera,
>>Clark popped it to the seats at the 3rd base side. However,
>>to the chagrin of Clark, the ball hit a speaker and deflected
>>inside the park and 3rd baseman Reboulet made  catch.
>>Clark threw up his bat and his helmet in total disgust. 
>>Did anybody else watched this....

Well, no, but ... I believe on the same day that Lance Parrish of Seattle
did this off a speaker in the Kingdome which was then caught by Pat Borders.


>>
>>S.H
>>Win or lose; Twins forever...
>
>This reminds me of a ball Devon White of the Blue Jays hit in the Metrodome 
>last year.  He got a hold of a pitch and lauched it way up into the right 
>field bleachers. Of course the announcers were admiring the shot, as was White,
>when all of a sudden, the ball hit a speaker at the top of the dome right above
>the outfield wall and the ball bounced back and landed for a double.  Most
>of the estimates about the distance of the ball (if it hadn't hit the speaker)
>were in the 450 feet range.  
>After the game, they had an interview with Devon White who said it would have
>been the longest ball he ever hit in his life...

I think Devon did this in the Kingdome.        

>
>
>BTW, what is the exact rule about balls hitting things like speakers?


It depends on the ground rules for the park. In Montreal's Olympic
Stadium, a ball hitting the speaker is a home run. 

>
>---
>|    Paulo F. Ferreira                         | University of Waterloo |  
>| E-MAIL: pfferrei@undergrad.math.UWaterloo.ca |    Waterloo, Canada    |
>\______________________________________________|________________________/


-- 
Darren Meister                                  dmeister@watserv1.waterloo.edu
From: nedludd@ut-emx.uucp (carlos de los muertos)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Carry-isms (was Re: Shoot Harry)
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:53:01 GMT
Organization:  

In article <1992Jul27.142753.28554@news.acns.nwu.edu>, erude@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Erick Rudiak) writes:
> 	Two Harry classics on Saturday:  Harry had Buck Henry pitching
> for the Houston Astros.


Not to mention the Astros' left-fielder: Pete In-ca-VIG-lia
(pronouncing the G!). Brother.

-- 
I am, most sincerely,
charles s. geiger, esq.

nedludd@emx.cc.utexas.edu cgeiger@astro.as.utexas.edu  schade@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
From: djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:21:36 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Jul22.164840.15493@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <Brrr8I.4uw@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul22.000141.12304@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>>>In article <BrrGCL.FI7@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>>>>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>>>>considered team players as well.  
>>>
>>>Even if that .300 hitter with 15 HR and 50 RBIs is a grouch who hates
>>>everybody else on the team, and only gives 75%? 
>>
>>If he is having bad effects on the team and causes the rest of the team to
>>play poorer then maybe he shouldn't play and should be traded but that
>>decision is up to management.  It also depends on who can replace him.  If
>>they had a Ducey to replace him with then the decision becomes harder but
>>if they have Derek Bell, a great prospect and can do the job then yes I
>>would consider getting rid of him off the team.  Do you have any examples
>>of this situation?
>
>So, you think that management should get rid of such a player, but you
>don't think it's okay for Derek Bell to think the same thing.
>
>Is that correct?

Yes.  Derek's job is to play when asked to.  If he has a problem with another
player, lack of playing time etc he should speak to the management about this.
It is not Derek's job to make decisions about what players the team should
get rid of.  It is the managements job to get and manage the players and it
is the players job to play baseball. 

>
>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: king@ssvax.gte.com (Larry King)
Subject: Billy Swift
Organization: GTE/SCSD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:37:06 GMT

	I need to find out the date and the line for Billy Swift's first
outing after returning from the DL.  Does anyone have that type of
information?  If so could you E-Mail it to me.  Thanks in advance...

--
Larry King
GTE Government Systems, Needham, MA    		(617) 455-3384 
E-Mail : king%ssvax.dnet@get.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for SS'
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:49:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.130135.15023@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ehlerswm@hackney.ecn.purdue.edu (William Mark Ehlers) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.233012.17899@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>
>>AMERICAN LEAGUE
>>Rico Rossy, Kansas City		3.20	
>>===============================================================================
>>Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
>
>	Does anybody know if this is the same Rossy that went to Purdue back
>	in the mid 80's.  I am just curious.  I know that the Rossy that went
>	to Purdue was drafted and that he changed his name.

Looks like it is.  According to _The Sporting News Baseball Register_, Elam
Jose "Rico" Rossy attended Frontier High School and then Purdue, and was
drafted by the Orioles in the 33rd roudn of the 1985 draft.  He was traded
along with Terry Crowley, Jr. to the Pirates for Joe Orsulak in 1987.  The
Pirates traded him to the Braves for Greg Tubbs in 1990, and the Braves
traded him to the Royals for Bobby Moore in 1991.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com

Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:04:53 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Pirates 3B

Are you kidding me?

This is what the Pirates 3B have done since the trade:

Date       Player      AB R  H RBI LOB BB SO

7/11/92    Wehner      4  0  1  0   0   0  1    Double
7/12/92    Wehner      4  1  0  0   4   1  1
7/16/92    King        4  0  0  0   4   0  0
7/17/92    King        3  0  0  0   0   0  0
7/18/92    Wehner      3  0  0  0   5   1  1
7/19/92    Wehner/King 3  0  0  0   2   0  0
7/20/92    Wehner      4  0  1  0   1   0  0
Total      Scum       25  1  2  0  16   2  3

That an .080 BA/ .120 SLG/ .148 OBA

ARE YOU KIDDING?

-Todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:36:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.000141.12304@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <BrrGCL.FI7@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>Are you sure that having a good time creates a better atmosphere? How do 
>>>Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell and Rob Ducey feel about Winfield? Could they 
>>>blame him for lack of playing time? I don't know, but it's a worthwhile
>>>consideration.
>>
>>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>>considered team players as well.  
>
>Even if that .300 hitter with 15 HR and 50 RBIs is a grouch who hates
>everybody else on the team, and only gives 75%? 

If he is having bad effects on the team and causes the rest of the team to
play poorer then maybe he shouldn't play and should be traded but that
decision is up to management.  It also depends on who can replace him.  If
they had a Ducey to replace him with then the decision becomes harder but
if they have Derek Bell, a great prospect and can do the job then yes I
would consider getting rid of him off the team.  Do you have any examples
of this situation?

--David Johnson

>
>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:41:29 GMT

In article <BruJ08.M5o@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>
>I do think that there are some players
>who will always get along with others and never be a problem.

Oh?  Like Tony Gwynn?  Dave Winfield?  I believe I've even heard of
somebody taking a dislike to Cal Ripken.  *NOBODY* gets along with
everybody.  Unless they are such total recluses that nobody ever
notices they are around.  And then the "rah-rah" guys get on their
cases for not being more active in the clubhouse.

>What happened to Sheffield was that in Milwaukee the fans got on his case
>for whatever reason and he let it bother him and it affected his play.

Sheffield blames his problems on a personality conflict (or something)
with two well-loved and respected players, Yount and Molitor.  I'm
inclined to believe him.  Not that Yount or Molitor necessarily did
anything wrong.  But if Sheffield says that he didn't get along with
them and it affected his play...

>Now that he is in San Diego he doesn't have a problem with the fans
>so now he is showing everyone that he is a good Major League player.
>If he has a poor season next year and the fans get on his case he will
>probably play poor again because it will bother him and affect his
>play.  The same thing happened to Devon White in going from California
>to Toronto.

Which is why Devon White is having such an *excellent* season this
year?  Ugh!  Phooie!  White's problems have nothing to do with the
fans.  He is simply uncoachable.  He *enjoys* swinging for the fences,
despite the fact that doing so leaves *gaping* holes in his stroke.

>How can the manager control personality conflicts between two players or
>control the fans who are booing a player.  He can't.

Managers can't *control* their players.  But they are certainly in a
position to help ease differences before they escalate into Conflicts.
This is one of the most important parts of a manager's job.  (Which is
why Cito might not be such a horrible manager, even if he is an idiot.
He does seem to be able to keep his players happy.)

>I will give you an example.  George Bell and Junoir Felix.  My impression
>and the media's as well was that they didn't like each other.  This is
>fine but they let it disrupt their play and the teams play.  I think that
>this is why neither Felix or Bell are now in Toronto and guys like Carter
>and Alomar are.  I believe Carter and Alomar can get along with almost
>anyone.

Seems to me that Carter had personality-conflict problems in San
Diego, no?  And from what I've heard, Alomar gets along with people by
staying out of the clubhouse politics all together.  Which is probably
a smart move for a young player.  Especially for a young player with
so much talent.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
If Plantier goes, I go!				tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:56:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.185618.26242@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.170246.3539@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul14.222129.19285@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>>Al Newman, Texas		2.67 (why did Valentine play him?)
>>
>>Uh, Franco's been hurt? Can't play 2nd? They brought up Frye when it was
>>obvious Franco won't be able to handle 2nd anymore this year.
>
>Well, Jeff Huson is alive and well.  And as much as I consider Dickie Thon
>overrated, he is like Frank Thomas when compared to Newman.

Excellent point, except that Huson and Thon are shortstops. And as I said,
Frye was brought up when it became obvious that Franco couldn't handle 2nd
anymore.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d 
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:11:54 GMT

In article <3831@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>How does it help to look at *lots* of biased reports?  They're all still
>biased.  They aren't independent observations, either.

Do you read the newspaper for anything other than stats? Do you listen to the
radio?  Do you watch TV.  If you answer ye to any of these my next question
is why.  If you think that all reports are biased and can't be trusted then
why the heck do you listen, read or watch them.

Also extremely biased reports are mostly from media in the home town who
really get to know the players well.  Get reports from different areas.
Also in your local newspaper learn about the writers and learn who can be
trusted and who can't.  Who can get the story correct and who can't.  Why do
so many people not trust the media and assume they are all idiots who only
write what they want whether true or not.  I will admit that some media
people are idiots and shouldn't be trusted so don't listen to these people.
Rather than assume the media is wrong why don't you look at the media's
point of view and see if there is anything that you can observe to back up
or shoot down the media's thoughts.

>And this still doesn't address the central issue that started the whole thread,
>which was this:  even if you *knew*, 100% sure, what a player's attitude was
>like, how would you go about measuring how much performance you should be
>willing to trade that off against?  When does difference in attitude outweigh
>difference in play on the field?  If we can't ever know, then there's *no*
>point in worrying about it.

If you are 100% sure then why should you ignore it.  The value of the attitude
also depends on the team.  If the team already has a good attitude then 
bringing in a player who has been known to be a bit of a problem but is a
quality player on the field may be worth it.  If the team has a bad attitude
then trading away a little more quality for a good attitude may also be worth
it.  If you want me to put a number on it I can't.

>-- 
>        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
>   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
>   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
>     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."

--David Johnson
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:18:02 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul29.123959.22646@nstn.ns.ca> maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca  
(Tim Maceachern) writes:
> I believe this is the first time (other than the first one or two days 
> of a season) that both Canadian teams have been in first place at the
> same time.  How'd you like a World Series played completely in Canada,  
eh?

I can't see it happening this year, at least. The Expos just
happen to be in a division in which everyone is doing their best
not to do well.  I think the Expos, if they do win the division
(my money is still on the Pirates), will be mowed down by either
the Braves or the Reds.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
From: bcschu@skws02.monsanto.com (Brett Schultz)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:19:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: tin.1992Jul23.221949.10390
Organization: Monsanto Company

steven@jaynes.uswest.com ( Steve Novak) writes:
: 
: I can see no good result if Maddux is traded, from the viewpoint of 
: being a Cub fan.  Can anyone else?

I agree, if the Cubs let go Maddux, I am disowning them.  Even though
they don't win, at least they should try to put themselves in a position to.

Maybe they are thinking to forget this year's race, and pick up some good
prospects for Maddux from a contender????

Remember... the Cubs did steal Sandberg from the Phillies

--Brett