HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csstddm@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Best Thaikovsky's 6th
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:57:52 GMT
Reply-To: csstddm@brunel.ac.uk
Organization: Brunel University

In article 7606@spang.Camosun.BC.CA, dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>In article <bTB=1S@engin.umich.edu> newjack@engin.umich.edu (Kyong Soo Lee) writes:
>>Hello fellow netters!  I'm sure this question has been raised in the past.  Anyway,
>>which is the best recording of the Thaikovsky's 6th symphony out there now in your opinion?
>>
>>Hope to get a long productive thread on this subject!
>
>Not sure about Thaikovsky, but for Tchaikovsky's 6th:
>
>	Leningrad PO/Mravinksy 1976 Erato.
>	Leningrad PO/Mravinksy 1961 DG (coupled with 4 & 5)
>	Leningrad PO/Mravinsky 1956 DG LP (coupled with 5 and a Sanderling 4th)
>	BPO/Furtwaengler Cairo 1951, DG - probably not on CD yet
>	BPO/Furtwaengler 1938, on a Novello CD I think
>	Concertgebouw/Mengelberg 1938 Teldec
>	BPO/Friscsay 195? long deleted DG LP
>
>In my opinion the recent Russian National/Pletnev on Virgin is grossly
>over-rated - I'm glad I bought it second-hand, because I would have
>felt ripped off if I'd payed full price.
>
>Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

I can agree with most of what Deryk says - although I have heard the Pletnev version
and think it does have something to offer - I'm not convinced that the recording
is as good technically as the crits would have us believe - but the performance is OK.

I also have Jansonns with the Oslo Philharmonic  on Chandos- very good - but still 
probably not as good as Mravinsky on DG.

WHILE I am on the subject - I've just realised that we are talking in the area of one of my
pet FLAMES .... the Mravinsky DG version is available in a boxed set - a bargain you may say -
of Symphonies 4,5, and 6.   THE IDIOTS at DG have seen fit to split one of the symphonies
(I think it is #5) over 2 CDS.   I did not buy a CD player to have to get up half way through
such pieces.  Other companies do the same, although they don't always mess up in the
same place, or the same symphony.  I do not believe that the cost of doing the thing properly -
putting the symphonies on to a CD each should significantly increase the cost of the sets.

I will absolutely not buy any CD which has the music split in such a way - so I'm
sticking to my old LPs, and the (relatively) new Jansonn set.

There are other sets of symphonies which get messed up from time to time - including
"bargain" sets of the SIbelius symphonies. Does anyone else feel strongly about this?

_________________________________________
                       David Martland
                  Dept. of Computer Science
                      Brunel University
                       United Kingdom

                  David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk
                  Tel: 0895 - 274000 ext 2139
                  Fax: 0895 - 256186
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Christian Zick)
Subject: Re: Looking for voice version of Ave Maria (Bach/Gound)
Organization: Institute of Geophysics, Victoria University of Wellington, NZ
Keywords: Ave Maria Vocal Version
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:29:45 GMT

In article <16792@umd5.umd.edu>, eyu@hamlet.umd.edu (Ellen Yu) writes:
> Hi everyone!
> 
> One of my favorite violin pieces is the Ave Maria by Bach/Gound.  I've
> heard it has a voice version and I'd like to find a recording of it
> (if it exists).  Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> 
I have heard a recording in Berlin, last year, broadcasted by the "classic music"
station SFB III, and several times. I think, they mentioned the EMI label, but may be somebody else can confirm this. It was sung by the last Castrate (?? no dictionary) of the Vatican State. The recording has been made in the 191?s. The sound quality was amazingly fresh for this early recording. The singer is
accompanied by a violin, if I remember correctly. It is the most wonderful performance of this piece I ever have heard. I should add that I don't like it.

Christian Zick
sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dsmall@mitre.org (Duane W. Small)
Subject: Re: Cimarosa sonatas
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:22:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.142238.2759@brandonu.ca>, hanly@brandonu.ca writes:
> 
> There is a delightful set of 31 short sonatas by Domenico Cimarosa
> played by Donatella Failoni on a Hungaraton CD. [stuff deleted]

I too am very fond of the Cimarosa sonatas.  I don't know the recording you
mention, but I have some of them in score form.  About 32 sonatas are
published by Eschig in France, in three rather expensive volumes.  G. Schirmer
imports them, but doesn't stock them--you have to special-order them from
France.

Many people will have heard the Cimarosa "oboe concerto."  Each movement is
a transcription of one of these little sonatas.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger)
Subject: Copyright implications of Cage's 4'33"
Organization: Yale University, Intelligent Sensors Lab, Elect. Eng.
	<1992Nov12.070010.21805@news.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:21:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.070010.21805@news.columbia.edu>
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.205624.1093@sequent.com>
>danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs) writes:
>>I've read so much on this newsgroup about Cage's infamous 4'33".
>>Can anyone recommend any good recordings of it?  What, in the
>>informed opinion of this net, is the _best_ recording?

>In order to judge the quality of recordings, I'd recommend you try 
>playing (or singing) it yourself a few times.  The score follows.

[deleted]

>I hope I didn't just violate copyright.

This brings up the question of how copyright law applies to
4'33".  A few weeks ago I went to a Cage memorial concert.  One
of the pieces on the program was "In Memory of John Cage" for
soprano and piano.  It was basically an allegretto that went

	John Cage is dead. Tra la la la la la la la la.
	John Cage is dead. Tra la la la la la la la
	[Grand Pause for about 273 seconds]
	la.

In one sense, this is an extended quote from a copyright work.
On the other hand, putting a grand pause in the middle of a
phrase is a well established musical device going back for 200
years.  The Mozart 2nd Horn Concerto comes to my mind as an
example.  The long grand pause could also be a repeated quote
from a work in the public domain, eg, the Mozart.  Does anyone
care to offer an opinion?

Also on the program were some works by Cage.  I liked them and
believe they are art, but I'm not quite ready to qualify them as
music.  They had musical elements, but they also had enough
theatrical aspects to put them closer to performance art.  The
closest genre for "Living Room Music" is opera.

Jim
--
James Szinger                        jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu

"He was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad."
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Date: 12 Nov 92 04:10:01 GMT
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

In article 775@osf.org, coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> 
> > 
> > >I find myself going back to Solti again and again, especially for
> > >Gotterdammerung, which I still find to be an astonishing unified triumph of
> > >the art of performance and the art of recording.
> > 
> > Right once again.  Opera recordings don't come much finer than this one.
> 
> Unless, like me, you *really don't* like the sounds made by Gottlob
> Frick.

I think Frick's Hagen is one of the treasures of this recording; I've
never heard a more gleamingly evil interpretation, more effectively sung.
Hearing his `Hagen`s watch' has spoiled me for anyone else (including
Salminen). I suppose I can imagine a more *beautiful* voice than his, but
no other so right for this part.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: idbremne@thunder.LakeheadU.Ca (idbremne)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Thank You For Your Help.
Date: 11 Nov 1992 17:56:25 GMT
Organization: Lakehead University, Thunder Bay, Ont., Canada

I would like to say thank you to all the people who replied to my message.

I have found the name of the piece of music and as well the composer.

It was Carl Orff and it was from Carmina Burana and the piece is O Fortune!

Thank You once again.
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:15537 alt.exotic-music:547
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.exotic-music
Subject: Re: NASDAQ commercial -- what IS that piece??
Date: 5 Nov 1992 17:35:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

Meredith Monk, _Dolmen Music_.  I was astounded
that she sold out, but hey.  Good piece.

	Vance
From: b-grant@nwu.edu (Barry Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cage's 4'33"
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:13:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Northwestern University

If my recollection of the description of 4' 33" on the Hat art double CD of
Cage's timed music is correct (and if the description is correct), then a
common conception of the piece is based on a misunderstanding. 4' 33', as I
recall from the notes, requires the performer to carry out a disciplined
act for 4'33". So, the piece is not a brief period of silence or ambient
noise/music, but a brief period of a performer doing intently anything of
his or her choice. Some performers choose to sit quietly, hands at their
side; others do something else. The Hat art recording consists of 4' 33" of
rather horrible electronic noise. The rest of the pieces on the CD are
great, but the 4" 33" makes me want to rip my ears off.


Barry Grant
Northwestern Univesity
Evanston, Illinois
b-grant@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:06:55 GMT

I must say I am puzzled by those in this thread who are trying to put the
Bohm Bayreuth Ring over the Solti one. To me, Bohm loses on almost all counts
to Solti -- his singers are no better and sometimes worse (Adam's Wotan I
find so dry-voiced as to be unacceptable, I'd rather have Hotter's wobble
and brains any day). His orchestra is sometime sloppy and his conducting
tends to be rhythmically rather slack, a critical failing in the Ring. The
sound is acceptable, but not distinguished.

For me, Solti remains the standard in this music. The Furtwangler set must
be heard, but it has too many defects in recording and execution to be an
acceptable first choice. The Karajan set has some fine things in it, but
does not surpass Solti's for me in any important respect. I also enjoy much
of Levine's performance, and especially Morris' Wotan; the Met Orchestra is
the only one to rival Vienna in this music, and the recording is excellent.
I have not heard enough of the Haitink to form an opinion, or the Knapperts-
busch or Krauss sets.

I find myself going back to Solti again and again, especially for
Gotterdammerung, which I still find to be an astonishing unified triumph of
the art of performance and the art of recording.

Solti's strengths: his conducting (always propulsive, always well shaped,
occasionally but rarely forced); his orchestra (unsurpassable); most of his
soloists, notably Nilsson, Hotter, Frick, Neidlinger, and even Windgassen;
and the recordings, which to my ear are still the best of any I have heard.
For me, Bohm just doesn't cut it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Re: Fantasia Contrappuntistica
Reply-To: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:24:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.204442.14170@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve
Apter) writes:
>
>>							The FC is a
>>fine performance, and the Beethoven alone is worth the price of
>>admission. 
>>
>>BTW anyone know of an available performance by Egon Petri?
>
>
>Yes.  Now that is available on CD -- Pearl, I think -- but I don't
>have the details handy.
>
I would really appreciate it if you summoned them.  I would like to know the
catalog number and the other compositions being performed.  Of course, ANY
Petri recording is probably worth tracking down, regardless of the contents.
I just want to know if there is any overlap with what I have from other
sources.  (Is anyone ready to post a Petri discography?)
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
From: fchen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Franklin M. Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: ConcertWare+ music for Macintosh
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:01:09 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

I recently came across some old music files for ConcertWare+ for the
Macintosh, e.g., the first part of Mendelssohn's overture to A Midsummer
Night's Dream, the Blue Danube waltz.  Most of these were transcribed by
a Gary McGath.  I'm wondering if there is an anonymous ftp site or
something which has classical ConcertWare+ transcriptions.  Please email
me if you have any info.  Thanks.

	Franklin Chen
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:10:43 GMT

In article <721546474@locust.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
>To those who haven't yet been awestruck by a great
>Brahms piece, I would recommend the Violin Concerto.
>This is IMHO far and away the most monumental work
>ever written in this genre.  Enjoy!
>
>-- Eduard Wiener


If you haven't heard Brahms German requiem, you re missing out.  It was
written in the lowest time of his life.  So, needless to say, it is EXTREMELY
moving!!!

Give it a chance, PLEASE!!

Rob


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Gramophone 1992 Awards
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:10:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.231029.22698@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.184728.11506@news.acns.nwu.edu> ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
>writes:
>>In article <1992Nov5.225814.4196@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen
>>smoliar) writes:
>># In article <hal.14.720975131@radio.wkar.msu.edu> hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal
>># Prentice) writes:
>># >
>># >Best Historic Non Vocal Recording -
>># >Elgar Edition Vol 1 - Elgar conducting (EMI mono CDS7 54560-2)
>># >
>># Can anyone post what is on this disc?  I have the recording of Elgar
>># conducting
>># the violin and cello concertos, but that is part of their Great Recordings
>># of
>># the Century series.  This is the first I have heard of the Elgar Edition.
>>
>>According to the ad in November's Gramophone, volume 1 has the two
>>symphonies, Falstaff, The Dream of Gerontius, The Music Makers (excerpts)
>>and includes 'the whole of the Second Symphony rehearsal take and both
>>versions of the Rondo.'
>
>That "excerpts" qualifier applies to ALL the compositions listed, doesn't it?

No, the symphonies, and Falstaff are complete.

>I have the Opal vinyl of Elgar conducting GERONTIUS.  There are only eight
>excerpts, so it all fits on a single vinyl disk.  As you might imagine, the
>sound quality is far from ideal;  but the experience of hearing Elgar shape
>this music is not to be missed, even if it is only available through fragments.
>If archeologists have managed to come up with a COMPLETE performance, that,
>alone would justify the purchase of Volume 1.

There are only excerpts of Gerontius, recorded live in the Royal
Albert Hall in 1927 as I recall: the studio recordings - i.e. pretty
much everything else - are better quality.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Tchaikovsky's Paino Concerto No. 1
Date: 11 Nov 1992 17:18 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

From: egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu

>	While we're asking about best Tchaikovsky recordings, would anyone
>like to recommend a favorite recording of his Piano Concerto No. 1 in Bb minor?
>I recently bought the Arthur Rubinstein recording and am disappointed.  The 
>fact that it has the crackling of the LP transfered to CD sort of bothers me,
>but still this recording lacks the intensity that I desired.

>	BTW, the CD also includes a version of the 1812 Overture.  I didn't
>bother to recommend it.

>BrianE

 No question - the most exciting recording is the Toscanini/Horowitz
version recorded at Carnegie Hall during WW II (1944?) as a benefit
for war bonds. The sound quality is reasonable - given when and how it was
recorded - but the atmosphere is electric (and Horowitz' playing of the
cadenza in the third movement is amazing). There are other recordings that
are technically better - both the recording and (note for note) performance -
(Gilels, for example) but if it's excitement you want, this is the recording. 
It's on an RCA disk with a Reiner(?I think)/Horowitz performance of 
Beethoven's 5th Concerto - a reasonable performance, but nothing special.
The work must also be included somewhere in the RCA Toscanini edition, but
note that Toscanini & Horowitz made two recordings of this concerto - the later
recording doesn't have the same fire. 

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Gramophone 1992 awards
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:51:50 GMT

In article <9NOV199221454364@zardoz.caltech.edu> inr@zardoz.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov7.231029.22698@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.184728.11506@news.acns.nwu.edu> ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung)
>>writes:
>>>In article <1992Nov5.225814.4196@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen
>>>smoliar) writes:
>>># In article <hal.14.720975131@radio.wkar.msu.edu> hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal
>>># Prentice) writes:
>>># >
>>># >Best Historic Non Vocal Recording -
>>># >Elgar Edition Vol 1 - Elgar conducting (EMI mono CDS7 54560-2)
>>># >
>>># Can anyone post what is on this disc?  I have the recording of Elgar
>>># conducting
>>># the violin and cello concertos, but that is part of their Great Recordings
>>># of
>>># the Century series.  This is the first I have heard of the Elgar Edition.
>>>
>>>According to the ad in November's Gramophone, volume 1 has the two
>>>symphonies, Falstaff, The Dream of Gerontius, The Music Makers (excerpts)
>>>and includes 'the whole of the Second Symphony rehearsal take and both
>>>versions of the Rondo.'
>>
>>That "excerpts" qualifier applies to ALL the compositions listed, doesn't it?
>
> As Deryk Barker pointed out already, the symphonies and Falstaff are
>complete performances. In fact, they include an earlier take of the rondo
>to the 2nd symphony and a recording of Elgar rehearsing same. The
>Gerontius performances are from two separate performances - can't
>recall the exact details, but I think one might be from a Three Choirs
>festival - definitely recorded in a cathedral. The other may be the
>Albert Hall performances that Deryk Barker refered to. Those `outside
>broadcats' have the poorest recording quality on the disks, but it's
>still prett good given the recording date. The symphonies and Falstaff
>have much better sound (although the strings get a bit scratchy in
>the closing moments of the 2nd symphony). The performances themselves
>are absorbing.

Furthermore, Pearl have just transferred to CD their 5CD set of all
Elgar's acoustic recordings, dating from 1914-25. They are not all
easy listening by any means, and some of the pieces are brutally cut -
the violin and cello concertos weigh in at around 15 minutes each! But
there is a wonderful almost complete Enigma from 1920/21, and a
complete 2nd symphony (1925) which is actually a better *performance*
than the electric remake.

There are also a number of lesser pieces which Elgar did not rerecord:
Carillon, Fringes of the Fleet, Starlight Express etc.

Because of sonic limitations this set is for Elgar devotees only, but
if you can take the sound there are some realy gems here.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:30:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: gsbacd.1992Nov10.003029.1
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov10.023215.17025@netcom.com>, tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice) writes:
> 	My fave hate is Victor Ledine (sp), pretending to be
> 	erudite, but making the classic mistake which turns
> 	"Liebeslied" into "Love's Misfortune", and similar
> 	boo-boos.  
> 
 What piece are you talking about here? If Kreisler's famous violin and piano
piece, then it is indeed "Liebesleid" or "Love's Sorrow" as it is commonly
translated. The foil is the other piece by Kreisler called "Liebesfreud" or
"Love's Joy".
						Alak Chakravorty.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical