HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mbernar@erenj.com (Marcelino Bernardo)
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Re: Porky pig.
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:24:39 GMT

In article <9301217343@ritz.mordor.com> ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz) writes:
>Warwick Allison (warwick@cs.uq.oz.au) wrote:
>OS/2> craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz (Craig Shore) writes:
>OS/2> >Warwick Allison writes:
>OS/2> 
>OS/2> >>In my experience, cheap PC-clones are flaky.  You STILL get what you pay
>OS/2> >>for, even with the low prices of The Clones.
>OS/2> 
>OS/2> 
>OS/2> But with computers, a flakey component can work PERFECTLY for any amount
>OS/2> of time then DING - suddenly a chip pops out of its socket (ok, easy
>OS/2> to fix).  Or a dry joint finally develops just under the spacebar that
>OS/2> you bash everytime you fire a smart-bomb.
>OS/2> 
>
>I really wish you would lay off the complete misinformation.  Any
>electrical engineering major (I was one for 3 years) will tell you
>that over 90% of the time if an electronic component is bad it
>will fail quickly.  That is why most reasonable manufacturers these
>days ('cept Atari...but they're not reasonable) will burn in the
>machine for 72 hours or so.
>

Tell that to an ancient computer running a spectrometer in our lab.
Recently, it started behaving eratically (i.e. computes wrong numbers!)
When we called the manufacturer, they suggested we pull out the cpu card
and reseat all the socketed chips.  It worked!  We've had to do this
twice now.  My guess is that it's due to oxidation on the contacts of cheap 
sockets.  Anyway, the moral is that
although what you say is true for semiconductors, it is not always true
for the conductors (mechanical conections).

This thread about cheap PC clones is interesting.  I remember when I bought
my brand new 1040STf years ago that the first one didn't work right.  The
dealer then suggested I give it the twist (grab each end and twist) which
he found works most of the time to seat some socketed chips inside.  At the
time, there were complaints here in this newsgroup about Atari using cheap
sockets.  Back then, Warwick's statement was being made in flame wars by
PC clone and Macintosh advocates about the Atari ST.

Marcelino Bernardo
mbernar@erenj.com
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: PC VS ST
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:30:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan19.005142.13777@bsu-ucs> <73872@cup.portal.com>
  <C17pJr.CoC@cdsmn.mn.org>

Doug Plate writes:

>In the PC based (i486) workstations we make here, we have a RISC 
>blitting the graphics, and a 4 DSP coprocessor helping with math intensive
>operations.  It's the... may I say - clever - programming of these ancilliar
>processors that sets our product apart (far apart!) from similar packages
>running on stock PC's.

>Just for the record, I'm not one of the "PC's suck eggs' crowd.  I just
>didn't agree with your statements.

Oh, I agree that the DSP can be used for some pretty useful
applications..  it sounds like your workstation is a very good
example of highly creative applications for them.. 
 
I'd assume that the workstation architecture is specially
designed to integrate the DSPs into the system, instead of trying
to make them as general purpose as possible though.
 
I should have indicated that manu of my comments regarding the use of
DSPs is in relation to the way they're implemented in the Falcon.
 
Most of my reading about DSPs in general though seems to indicate that
as mentioned, a general purpose FPU math co-processor would be far
better than trying to make a DSP do things it wasn't really optimized to
to.

A lot of what we've been hearing here is that the DSP in the Falcon seems
to have taken on the proportions of a "magic bullet" that can do anything
faster and better than anything else.  And that's just not true...
 
BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Why Atari can't succeed in the United States
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 19:12:07 GMT
Organization: The CServer at the Z*NET International Global News Gateway

brayl@nyx.cs.du.edu (Bill Rayl) writes:

> 
> Jon,
> 
> I don't understand.  Could you please explain your reasoning behind
> your statement that the Lynx puts Atari on firm financial ground?
> 
> Perhaps you haven't heard that Toy R Us has dropped the Lynx?
> Maybe you didn't know that Toys R Us was Atari's biggest purchaser
> of the Lynx?  Toys R Us has over 35 percent of the toy market; the
> toy market is a multi-million, if not billion, dollar a year
> product market.  And Atari lost this major business account.
 
 Pattie,
 
 Who the heck is this little American firm called Toy R U (grin).
 Please remember that Atari have a global presence in the market
 place and just beacuse the USA is not doing so well, try to
 remember there is LIFE outside your borders.
 
 Here in Asia Pacific (the real one not California USA) the Lynx
 was the most requested xmas present for children 3-15yrs and large
 volumes have been sold over the xmas period. The same goes for 
 Europe from the conversations I have had with friends up that way.
 
 Like it or not (and most of us are NOT) Atari has a firm footing in
 the home console/games/video games industry (read the news.groups on
 internet to get an idea of HOW big) and if they are to claw their way 
 back to a firm footing this is an ideal vehicle in which to do it.
 
 We in this news.group use the st(generic term) series of computers
 made by the same company. Therefore sometimes it is hard for us the
 users to see the wood from the trees and tend to forget if the sales
 of a product are no good, commercial realisim says stop supporting that
 product line. This maybe why there has traditionaly been a so called
 lack of support in the USA for the st series of machines due to lack
 of market penitration (who knows I like others am only commenting on
 what I have seen) and Atari not going at it with the ST/STE/TT and
 the likes where they have in other countries that have proved to be
 profitable.
 
 Back to the subject at hand.
 
 If you and your magazine were to ask Atari how many Lynx's have 
 been sold on a GLOBAL basis (out side the back yard USA) you might
 be in a pleasant suprise.


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Happy Australia Day!
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 08:39:50 GMT
Organization: The CServer at the Z*NET International Global News Gateway

ken@isgtec.com (Ken Newman) writes:

> 
> I dunno, my calendar says that today is Australia Day. So since there
> are several people around here that are from the underside of the 
> world :), I thought I'd write this. Hey, this isn't a flame, or an
> insult, or about IBM PC's, or Atari going bankrupt! Wow!


 Hmm to think Allan Bond won the America's Cup a few years ago.
 
 - Look at Bond now
 - Look where the Cup is now
 
 Warwick, some day to remember (grin)


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
From: alx@ceti.csustan.edu (RaSTa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Turlock/Modesto
Date: 26 Jan 93 06:56:46 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus


	Are there any atari st users in the towns mentioned above?
I live in Turlock, have a faulty 1040st, and I need to isolate
a problem by using a similair machine.......Can anyone please help.

	I'm getting lines flying up on my monitor, which make it 
impossible to do anything.....

	Please e-mail responses to : alx@ceti.csustan.edu

-- 
Thanks.			            L    L    L    L
8-()-8			       	  L   L  L      L 
	       		       	 L     L L____L    L
Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:20853 comp.sys.atari.st.tech:6796
From: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Assembler routine that generates random numbers?
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:33:25 GMT
Reply-To: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk (Mathew Lodge)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

In article <1993Jan20.203516.18565@prime.mdata.fi> paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau) writes:
>Does anybody know how to generate random numbers on a computer? I know
>of the GEMDOS/BIOS/XBIOS call that does that, but I wonder if it could
>be done faster?

The XBIOS call uses the "linear congruential" method of generating pseudo-
random numbers, which works as follows:

R(n+1) := [R(n) * a] mod b

(Where R(n) is the n'th random number, R(n+1) the n+1'th number, etc)

The idea is to choose values of a and b such that long sequences of
non-repeating pseudo-random numbers are obtained. From a computational
viewpoint, it makes sense to make b a power of 2 since the modulo function
then reduces to a simple AND instruction. There are also rules for choosing
good values for a.

The XBIOS call is pretty quick -- it's an assembler implementation of the
above, and you're not going to write one that's much quicker! The thing that
takes the time (on a 68000 at least) is the multiplication. There are other
methods that use shift-then-XOR (see the book references below).

I remember (it's a long time since I disassembled the code) that when the
XBIOS routine is first called, the generator is seeded with a new number --
but I forget where that number comes from.

>I'm supposed to do a program that has to do with
>probability and such things, and I'd like a fast and flexible random
>routine in assembler.. so if anybody has ideas, they're welcome!

If you want *truly* random numbers (as opposed to pseudo-random numbers),
then you're going to have to build some hardware. Commercial random number
hardware works by amplifying the quantum noise in a resistor and
thresholding it to generate a stream of random bits.

There is quite a lot of literature about random number generation. You might
look at the "Numerical Recipes" book by Press, Flannery et al. (but it has
some mistakes in the section on random numbers). Any good numerical
algorithms book should cover random numbers -- Sedgewick's "Algorithms" has
a small section on it (and it covers the shift-XOR method).

>| Rasmus Paetau (paetau@mits.mdata.fi) | I still believe in Falcon030 |

Mat

| Mathew Lodge                      | "What think you, my lord, of... Love?" |
| mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk          | "You mean rumpy-pumpy?"                |
| Langwith College, Uni of York, UK |  -- Blackadder II                      |
From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: STalker vs Uniterm?
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:19:43
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
	<1993Jan21.121423.10420@ac.dal.ca>
Reply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab20.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: cordes@ac.dal.ca's message of 21 Jan 93 16:14:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.121423.10420@ac.dal.ca> cordes@ac.dal.ca (John Cordes) writes:
-> In article <3_800_842_fidonet2b57bb25@Kralizec.fido.zeta.org.au>, michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith) writes:
-> > Original to: ken@isgtec.com
-> > In a message of <10 Jan 93 05:43:54>, ken@isgtec.com (3:713/602) writes:
-> > 
->    <material deleted>
-> 
-> > If you only have an ST, use Uniterm, you don't have the speed or need for
-> > anything more.
-> > 
-> > If you have a Mega STe, an accelerated ST, or a TT, use either STalker
-> > (whose VT100 is pretty good when you set it up right, particularly if you
-> > disable it's default behaviour of clearing the history buffer on a
-> > clear-home) or CoNnect, which is as close to flawless as I have ever seen a
-> > terminal emulator get.
-> > 
->   I like STalker very much, but I do find the occasional clearing of the 
-> history buffer to be a nuisance. It seems to me that Eric R./Gribnif 
-> claimed that it would be too hard to detect the control sequences that do 
-> that, when running in VT100 mode; do you know of a way to overcome the 
-> problem? Thanks.
-> 
-> John

	Both of those are good for some circumstances.  If you dial in
to a Unix system on a regular basis, use the ST Unix Windows client.
It lets you open several terminals at one time and takes better
advantage of the Unix system.  The only problem is if you have a low
bandwidth modem, one window producing a lot of output will make the
others really slow.  The client and server side of Unix Windows is
available through anonymous ftp, but I don't remember what sites right
now.  I've only run this on my 1040, so I have no idea if it works on
newer Atari machines.

--
Jason C. Austin
j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon, Falcon who has got a Falcon
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:35:48 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves) writes:

>Why have Atari made the Falcon a 32-bit machine with only a 16-bit data bus.
>Surely, this will mean it only runs half as fast as it should.

No.

Certainly, a 32-bit CPU <-> RAM databus is superior to the 16-bit bus,
but "half as fast" is far from accurate...  

You see, the CPU doesn't spend all it's time accessing memory.  Many
instructions involve no memory access at all.  Others access memory,
but also spend a lot of time processing the instruction.  And if an
instruction or data is already in the on-chip cache, it will be just as
fast regardless of the bus width.  

A 16-bit bus is slower than a 32-bit bus, but it is also cheaper - just
as the architecture for a 16MHz chip is much cheaper than for a 32MHz
chip.  

--
Warwick
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            |||||| AMS = GNUized              |
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,   ||||||   Atari Machine-Specific   |
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    _// || \\_   C++ game library       |
_____ v ____ Brisbane, Australia. ______ |_/  ||  \_| ________________________|
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon 030 in BYTE
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 00:47:18 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan20.130526.5115@cs.ruu.nl>

Annius V. Groenink writes:

>Hmm.  Same story for the TT.  A good one-page review and then they completel
>shut up until the next one comes out!

Did you ever read any of the coverage of the 520ST when it first came out?

Cover stories in Byte magazine, Creative Computing.. features about how
the "Jackintosh" was going to bury all the other kinds of computers..
Articles about how MicroSoft was going to port all its Macintosh
applications to the ST (Atari people said so, so it must have been true),
and how Atari Corp was poised to take over the computer market with its
amazing new, cost effective ST computer...
 
And then... and then... and then, nothing happened.
 
Atari fumbled, and didn't recover...
 
And the magazines went on to other, more realistic kinds of things.
 
(I still have those 1985 issues with the STs on the covers.. pretty sad.)

BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Re: floptical advice please!
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:01:53 GMT

In article 11824@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu, dcable@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dan Cable) writes:
>u0h36@keele.ac.uk (Adam Turnbull) writes:
>
>>stuff deleted
>
>>The fact that they are slower than floppies is all that is putting me
>>off - I don't have an existing hard drive, and I don't think a floptical
>>rest deleted<
>
>They are decidedly not slower than floppies. ICD's Ratehd reports 120ms
>seek time and 99kbs data transfer. No way are the hard drive manufacturers
>quaking in their boots about this performance, but its not all that bad.
>If it will give you a better feeling for the speed, I could copy some
>files, run a database sort, etc. and compare the times to a Syquest.


Dan, that sounds like a great benchmark comparison.  I'm sure several
netters would be interested in noting your results.
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Why Atari can't succeed in the United States
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 09:59:09 GMT
Organization: The Cserver at the Z*NET International Global News Gateway

Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:

                 (bytes biten and deleted)
 
> In short, Atari Corp has taken one of the best computers designs EVER,
> and thrown it away.
> 
> BobR

 Bob,
 
 While the context of your article may be sound I suspect they have not
 thrown the best computer designs away at all.  Atari is now 
 repositioning itself in the global marketplace and with the aid of the
 Lynx games machine is putting itself on a renewed financial footing.
 
 With all this in mind when the Falcon is released I think you will find
 Atari well placed to take market share in all global markets including 
 the USA.
 
 [Bob this is not a flame but an observation of the last 8 years]


 Jon Clarke                                                     Z*NET Pacific
 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  jonc@status.gen.nz           GEnie: J.Clarke6        Hexagon: HSBC NZM EBD
  Phone: (+649) 358-5589       IFNA : 3/772:105        GEM    : NZM CABLES
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     "Practise safe computing ! Wear a write protect tab!" jc 1988
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: IBM CORPORATE LOSS
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:46:48 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


You guys are missing a basic business point here. IBMs loss cannot simply
be absorbed by its savings, as it will not be producing anything to
make that money. This will hurt their SCF, and their stock would only
fall further (to say nothing of their bond rating, over at Moody's).
Plus, any money IBM has got stashed away would be put to better use
than a savings account. If they have money out there, it would be 
invested, and investments tend to be less liquid than savings. They'd
be able to get their hands on that money eventuaolly, but if I worked
at IBM, I sure wouldn't like knowing that that was where my 
paycheck was coming from. Lastly, IBM's holding s  are not its to just
dole out when it doesn't make monyxxx money, they belong to the shareholders
(and creditors have some claim on them too).
No, I don't think IBM will go under tomorrow, and even a hurt IBM will
outdo a lucky (hypothetical) Atari in the foreseeable future.
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: GIF viewers and GIF89a
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 22:03:01 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1jus3uINNcja@golem.wcc.govt.nz>

Steve Wells asked about the difference between the GIF87a and
GIF89a standards...
 
I don't have a full list of the enhancements right here, but some
of them include:

The ability to include comments with the picture, which allows
giving credits and a description, among other information...
 
The ability to include animation (although I've only seen this
done a very few times).
 
The ability to include more than one image in a single file...
 
I know there are more, but those are few of the changes.
 
BobR
From: mapmh@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Mark Hagger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Programs - I need ideas...!
Keywords: help
Date: 27 Jan 93 10:40:02 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, richard@op.ph.ic.ac.uk (Richard Syratt ) writes:
>In article <H.eg.Jzc7W7uBf8g@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, mforget@elfhaven.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes:
>|> 
>|> I am in need of ideas for applications to write.  What would people like

Are there any decent PD floppy disc sector editors out there?  Ie
something that allows you to page through the data on a disc,
hopefully searching for certain information if you want.  Dunno, just
a thought anyway.

[deletions]

>(Leaving out dtp and wordprocessors because I can't imagine trying to
>write these would be anything but boring).

Actually although at first glance this may appear to be true, somewhat
surprisingly I found it quite interesting (and instructive) to put
together a working word processor, its a good exercise in dynamic
memory management, file handling etc etc, plus of course you get to
put all those functions that you've always wanted on a word processor
but were afraid to ask for.

>
>(strange cat you've got)
I'll second that.

Mark
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: PC VS ST
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:10:05 +0100
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de

In <74042@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:

>Steve Wells writes:
>[A lot of good applications for a Digital Signal Processor]

>Except..

>>Co-Processor.  Programs should be able to use it as a secondary processor
>>to speed up a lot of operations.  (e.g.  A MUCH enhanced blitter etc.)

>A DSP has a VERY limited instruction set, highly optimized toward
>multiply and shift operations, the kinds of things you'd want
>to do to a stream of real-time signals (ie: audio or video)

>It CAN'T do the things a math-coprocessor can do, so its use
>as a "co-processor" would be extremely limited.

If one wants a math-coprocessor, it  certainly  makes  much  more
sense  to  add an FPU to the Falcon rather than pulling some hack
to use the DSP for math stuff. I do think, however, that the  DSP
could   be  used  for  many  purposes  for  that  no  specialized
coprocessors exist. As an example, from what  I  know  about  the
DSP,  it would be possible to use it to compute the edit distance
between two strings (that is, how many times you have to  type  a
key  at  least in order to transform one string to the other one,
casually speaking).
In this sense, the Falcon's may point toward a  future  evolution
of   computer   architecture   --   they   may   actually  become
"heterogeneous transputer systems", having an array of  different
processors,  each of which can be loaded with code supplied by an
application to fulfill a specialized task with high performance.

Maybe just a weird idea...

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*