HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roman.yarish@rose.com (roman yarish)
Subject: CADD video sale/trade
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:47:34 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 10-08-92 23:41

Best offer or trade

MATROX PG Series 1  (high end cadd video card)
   (brand new in box)
   compatible with major cadd packages, autocad etc..
   up to 1280x1024 res
   60hz non-interlaced
   16,777,216 color lookup table
   TI 34010 processor
   Image load/dump 1 sec.
   100,000 vectors/sec
   100,000,000 bits/sec
   Single or dual screen setup
  
Things I'm looking for (other than money)
   SCSI H.D. 3.5"
   CD-ROM SCSI
   multi-sync type monitor 14-19"
   1.2, 1.44 floppy drives
   486dx-33 chip only
   14.4k modem
   1m or 4m simms (70ns or faster)
or ??

Internet:  roman.yarish@rose.com
Compuserve: 73020,204
---
   RoseReader 1.70 P002254: Please dial right now.  We have operators waiting...
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Subject: Re: Proxy Self-Defense of the Earth
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:57:44 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1332900110@igc.apc.org>
 by alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen):

: What kind of person is it, anyway, who thinks that he must possess 
: everything or die?

I don't know, but when you meet or hear of one, please let me know.
ME, I don't need to possess EVERYthing ... I'll settle for west of the 
Rocky Mountains ...

: Property rights have to be compatible with the long-term security of 
: humanity,

They already are.  Env'tal groups, as well as most other special interest
groups, simply aren't making correct use of them.

They insist on forcing others to give up their property in the name of 
some "higher good," like Monestaries of the last century converting 
aboriginies to Christianity or Death.  Instead, they should simply
acquire the property using legal and moral means.  Once acquired, end of
story.

It's so damn simple it's painful.  No control over the lives of fellow
humans that way.  Too bad.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
Hall's First Law of Politics:
    The voters want fewer taxes and more spending.
Newsgroups: ca.environment

              "Help Turn The Tide In San Francisco Bay"

You are invited to help beautify and restore the Bay shoreline at India Basin
Park, on Saturday, October 24, 1992, 9:00 AM to 12 Noon.

Meet at the bottom of the dirt road off Hunters Point Blvd. at Galvez Street.
Bring gloves, and sturdy shoes that won't mind getting dirty. Drinks will be
provided, courtesy of Hitachi.

Help celebrate Clean Water Month with the San Francisco Department of Public
Works, the San Francisco Recreation and Park Department, and the Restoring the
Bay Campaign. Enjoy the great outdoors while learning about wetlands and
getting to know India Basin, one of San Francisco's newest parks, and its only
city park with tidal wetlands.

For more information, please call the Save San Francisco Bay Association at
(510) 452-9261.

Directions to India Basin [assumes you are coming from SF, apparently]:

Find your way to San Francisco. From 101 (the Bayshore Freeway), take Army
Street *east* (watch the signs carefully). Turn right onto Evans Avenue and
follow Evans southeasterly. Shortly after Evans changes its name to Hunters
Point Boulevard, find a place to park on the street near the Galvez street
sign. (Unfortunately, the site is difficult to reach by public transit.)
Walk around the white gate and down the road.

[the map shows that if you hit Innes Ave while on Hunters Point Blvd, you have
gone too far.]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reprinted verbatim from a poster the Save SF Bay Assoc. sent me. I (and HP)
are not associated with them other than I've picked up Bay trash before - 
usual disclaimer applies. I can't limit regional distribution, so no flames
if you live in Guam. Followups to ca.environment. For more information, phone
them, this is all I know, other than they are a good group and depend upon
volunteers. / Gary
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Subject: Re: Proxy Self-Defense of the Earth
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:49:32 GMT
            <1332900110@igc.apc.org>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1332900110@igc.apc.org>
 by alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen):

:
:> by alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen):
:>
:>: For that matter, all property everywhere is stolen from its previous fauna
:>: and flora and commonly used to drive the majority of its species inventory
:>: extinct -- perhaps a worse violation of "natural rights" than even 
:>:    genocide.
:>
:> Are you really going to say that all human life should cease and return 
:> "ownership" of the earth to the flora and fauna?
:
: No, only that "ownership" should be shared more equitably

It is impossible on any equitable basis to determine which portions of 
"nature" should be "shared" between mankind and "the earth."  Far better 
for those who wish to preserve nature to simply own it.

Such as, for example, buying public timberland.

Logging companies do not like this concept ... they know that if it came
to it, the environmental groups could out-buy them easily.  If need be,
env'tal groups could hold telethons and raise tons of money, on top of
what they already have.

Logging companies are depending on the govt-teat.  The public lands
concept is encouraging them to use slash-n-burn techniques, which
endangers habitats.  Env'tal groups need to find better ways of cutting 
that off.  Private ownership is one such way.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you
really make them think they'll hate you.
Xref: sparky ca.environment:957 rec.arts.theatre:2803 rec.arts.tv:19613 misc.entrepreneurs:3013
From: kwatson@netcom2.com (Kennita Watson)
Newsgroups: ca.environment,rec.arts.theatre,rec.arts.tv,misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Impresario sought for new Children's TV Show
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:16:07 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Service

Executive Producer/Impresario-type 
needed to help launch children's
television program.  Must have
heart-felt commitment to 
quality children's programming.

Reply to Sigfreid, 415-323-9642.
From: Alan McGowen <alanm@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Date: 09 Oct 92 17:05 PDT
Subject: Re: Proxy Self-Defense of the Earth
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1332900109:cdp:1332900110:000:2305
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!alanm    Oct  9 17:05:00 1992


> by alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen):
>
>: For that matter, all property everywhere is stolen from its previous fauna 
>: and flora and commonly used to drive the majority of its species inventory
>: extinct -- perhaps a worse violation of "natural rights" than even genocide.
>
>Are you really going to say that all human life should cease and return 
>"ownership" of the earth to the flora and fauna?

No, only that "ownership" should be shared more equitably -- humans 
appropriate some 40% of the total photosynthetic energy supply for all life 
on land, for example, which seems just a bit excessive for one species out 
of tens of millions, and which is a large part of the reason for the planet's
current extinction crisis. Humanity could certainly flourish as a species with
a far smaller chunk of the Earth's most fundamental "property". Every other 
species that has ever existed has done so, so it's not very plausible to argue
that it would have to mean that "all human life should cease."

				* * * 

What kind of person is it, anyway, who thinks that he must possess everything
or die? Not the sort of person one wants to live near, if given any choice.
If not given any choice, this is just the sort of person we form civil 
societies to protect ourselves against. It is time to see that this protection
is just as necessary when such criminal tendencies are directed at the 
biosphere as when they are directed against human life and limb. Human life,
like all life on Earth, is a result of the functioning of the planet's
ecosystems, and those functions are carried out by other species. To jeopardize
other species' survival through unbridaled greed is to threaten humanity's
ultimate well-being -- something civil society has as much right to protect 
against as any other threat such as a crime of violence or a hostile foreign
power. 

Property rights have to be compatible with the long-term security of humanity,
and this means that they do not entitle the owner to do anything which 
diminishes the capacity of the Earth to support its full diversity of life;
such actions are in fact crimes against property, even if perpetrated by the
legal owner. We have every right to bring laws about property into much closer
accord with biological reality. 

------------
Alan McGowen




Newsgroups: ca.environment
From: deanna@acro.cadence (Deanna McCusker)
Subject: Starship Concert / Environmental Faire
Organization: /mnt4/deanna/.organization
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:32:28 GMT


Enjoy the music and expand your awareness at the
    Environmental Faire and Starship Concert
Music, Food, Environmental Speakers and Vendors!

With a very special appearance by:
		Mickey Thomas
	Lead singer Jefferson Starship
		     and
		Starship '92

Also Featuring:
	  Samba Ngo and the Ngoma Players
	Traditional African Music and Dance
		        and
		  Patricia Carney
	 Executive Director of EarthSave
	Representative to the Earth Summit

Plus:
	YES! Youth for Environmental Sanity
The music of: Geist, Modern Voice and Endangered Species

October 18, 1992 1-7pm Doors open at Noon
Santa Clara County Fairgrounds - Expo Hall

Advance Tickets $18, Door Tickets $25
Ticket includes light lunch, souvenir bag and program,
and more...

Advance tickets available at the
San Jose Box Office (408) 246-1160

For general information call: (408) 984-0204
Benefit for the EarthSave Foundation
From: Alan McGowen <alanm@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Date: 09 Oct 92 21:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Rights for Rocks!
Nf-ID: #R:hpindda.cup.hp.com:38511048:cdp:1332900112:000:868
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!alanm    Oct  9 21:08:00 1992


I have to agree with Eugene Miya (and with Roderick Nash) 
that we have in fact already granted some rights to nature via 
the legislative process. These of course are not the capital-R, 
Inalienable sorts of Rights which some believe they can intuit 
out of this or that self-evident metaphysical foundation... just 
plain old legal rights that affect how court decisions turn.

But the argument I was addressing in this post is not answered 
merely by observing with Nash that as a matter of historical fact 
rights are expanding: -- since it asks whether the historical 
process, even if real, has any rational basis. My purpose was to 
show that there are good reasons for extending rights (small-r) 
to ecosystems and that this is not just a kind of bandwagon we 
ought to jump onto for no better reason than to join the crowd. 

------------
Alan McGowen
From: Philip Geller <pgeller@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:19 PDT
Subject: Santa Clara: Business Environmenta
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1332900113:000:1543
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pgeller    Oct 12 00:19:00 1992


Third Annual Business Environmental Awards Luncheon 

Most Likely to Prosper:  
Environmental Management Strategies for the '90's

Friday, October 30, 1992
11:00 AM - 2:00 PM

Westin Hotel
5101 Great America Parkway
Santa Clara

Reservations: $25 per person
              $500 per sponsor table

Call 415 494-9301 for information.

To recognize the efforts of regional companies that have introduced 
model environmental programs, the Peninsula Conservation Center (PCC) is 
presenting awards to businesses for their achievements in five 
categories:  Land, Air, Water, Sun and Environmental Enterprises.

The PCC Environmental Awards Committee selected the winners after 
reviewing the applications and making site visits.  The winning programs 
are innovative, demonstrate a positive environmental impact and serve as 
a model for others.

Richard Morrison, a Senior V.P. of Environmental Policies and Programs 
at Bank of America will be the speaker at the luncheon program.  
According to Morrison, protecting the environment is now an economic 
imperative.  By abusing natural resources, we degrade our ability to 
provide for the future.  Recognizing this BankAmerica adopted nine 
environmental principals in 1991.

These principals govern its day-to-day operations and identify 
enterprises that are sound investments both economically and 
ecologically.  Morrison will describe Bank of America's investment in 
some of these projects and how the bank has worked cooperatively with 
environmental groups to carry out these principals.
From: Sean D. Ackley <su@prag.com>
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Subject: Info on Sunshine Canyon Lanfill in LA?
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 16:25:51 PDT
Reply-To: su@prag.com (Sean D. Ackley)
Distribution: ca
Organization: PRA Group International (510-732-9895)


Does anybody have any information on the Sunshine Canyon Landfill in
Los Angelos?  Good or bad feedback please.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When the morning sun rises, the hawks fly free as the wind. -- r. hawk

MHS:  su@prag                  Compuserve:  70214,2111
                               FAX:         510-732-0289
rhawk@prag.com                 PRODIGY:     RWCR77A       FidoNet:
rhawk@prag.mhs.compuserve.com  AOL:         SACKLEY       1:161/450
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Subject: Re: Property Values (was Re: "Ecofascists" In Action)
Keywords: property values, review process
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:52:56 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Chipmunk:
:> You can not "own" property values.  If you are the first black to move
:> into a neighborhood, and it can be proven that you caused property
:> values to plummet, should you be liable to recompense everyone for lost
:> equity?

Dragon Monster:
: Again this is an entirely different example from what was originally
: given.  You may not "own" property values; true; but if they plummet
: because of a lower air/noise quality, you cannot argue that increased
: traffic doesn't "cause tangible harm".  Now while some bigots may dispute
: with me on this, I hardly think the air/noise quality in your neighborhood
: will be lowered if a non-WASP family moves in.

I'm talking about fruit, and you're comparing apples to oranges.

While it is true that blacks won't destroy the air/noise quality of a 
neighborhood, nevertheless the property values may still plummet.  You 
were using "lowered property values" as an argument against air/noise 
pollution, and I'm saying you can't do that.

Blacks moving into a neighborhood will not harm YOU, regardless of what
happens to your equity when every bigot on the block puts up a FOR-SALE 
sign at the same time.

However, if you have evidence that air/noise pollution will harm YOU,
then you have a valid argument.  Use it.  Don't use "lowered property 
values," because that's NOT a valid argument.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
Everyone is familiar with GIGO.  But this garbage, having passed through 
a very expensive machine, is somehow enobled and none dare criticize it.
From: Alan McGowen <alanm@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: ca.environment
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:18 PDT
Subject: Re: Proxy Self-Defense of the Earth
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1332900109:cdp:1332900116:000:2393
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!alanm    Oct 15 12:18:00 1992


/ hpindda:ca.environment / asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) /  4:49 pm  Oct 12, 1992 /
Written in article <1332900110@igc.apc.org>
 by alanm@igc.apc.org (Alan McGowen):

>:>
>:> Are you really going to say that all human life should cease and return 
>:> "ownership" of the earth to the flora and fauna?
>:
>: No, only that "ownership" should be shared more equitably
>
>It is impossible on any equitable basis to determine which portions of 
>"nature" should be "shared" between mankind and "the earth."  Far better 
>for those who wish to preserve nature to simply own it.

Rubbish. 

1) Extinction rates are at geological highs comparable to or greater
than those of the mass extinction episodes such as the Cretaceous extinction.
This is a direct result of excessive human appropriation of habitat area and
other pressures placed by humans on ecosystems. These extinctions are degrading
the biosphere irreversibly on time scales meaningful to humanity, rendering
all future humanity ever more biotically impoverished with each passing year. 
By any "equitable basis" conceivable this is intolerable even when only human 
interests are considered. If other life has any moral value whatsoever it
is a tragedy unprecedented in the history of the planet: that in the very 
instant in which evolution arrives at "rational" self-awareness, that same
rationality should prove to be as destructive as a mindless asteroid. 

2) Biotic resources are *not* automatically protected by being privately held.
The resources which can be protected in this way are those which grow so
rapidly that a discounted sustained yield is worth more than total 
liquidation. Most biotic resources grow slowly (whales, redwood trees, 
climax ecosystems) and are worth more, under normal economic discounting, 
if liquidated and reinvested in higher-growth areas than if harvested 
sustainably: this is exactly why there is economic pressure to cut all
remaining Pacific Northwest old-growth. This point applies equally to 
privately held resources and to commons: in fact the privately-held 
timberlands of the logging companies have no remaining old-growth. It has
*not* been protected by being privately held, it has been eliminated. The 
ideological dogma that privatization is the solution to all resource degradation 
problems does not bear up under bioeconomic analysis. 

------------
Alan McGowen
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:19:07 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro
Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM

asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:

>You should have FOUGHT that one!!  You could have brought some friends
>along to testify to your non-smoking status.  The cop might even fail to
>show, assuming he's now aware that he ticketed the wrong person.

Absolutely!  And you should have brought friends who could have testified
to the smoking status of the passenger (but the passenger himself sounds
like a poor witness).  And use the officers words ("you should have said
something *before* I started writing") against him -- the fact that
telling him earlier would have made a difference clearly indicates
that his actions might have been different which casts doubt upon the
reliability of his observations and his own confidence in them.

     Richard M. Mathews			Lietuva laisva = Free Lithuania
					Brivu Latviju  = Free Latvia
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM		Eesti vabaks   = Free Estonia
					        WE  DID  IT!!!
Newsgroups: ca.driving,ca.general,ba.general
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: passenger(s) wanted.
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:46:42 GMT

I will be driving from LA (near (LAX) to Sunnyvale on 10/19, 
leaving around 8am.

Returning either 10/30 late afternoon or 10/31 early.

Route will be I-5 up and either I-5 or US-101 back

I would welcome  some company for either or both directions.
The car is a Celica convertable and the top will be down unless
there is inclement weather.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: Berkeley Traffic Court
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:18:57 GMT

Ronald Cole (rjc@devo.unify.com) wrote:
: Here is the relevant part of Rule 187, California Rules of Court,
: interspersed with my commentary:
: 
:     <stuff deleted>
:                the judge may direct the appellant to engross the
:      statement ... as settled.  [in layman's terms: better look and
:      see what is going to the Superior Court, son...  and good luck
:      with your opening brief because you can't admit new evidence...
:      like what really happened at the trial!]"
: 
Wow, it doesn't really say "engross the statement," does it?  That's
too much.  <I'm a 3rd-year law student, and I have no idea what that
means.>  :-)

Anyway, what happened when *I* appealed is: the commissioner asked me to
write a provisional statement of proceedings.  I of course included
more than I wanted to use for evidence on my appeal, sandbagging him
as much as I could on my grounds.  He eventually wrote his version
based on mine, but disarming the stuff that he thought was damaging
to his decision.  I could have had a hearing to go over stuff I
disagreed with on his statement, but I waived it, because I didn't
have the time to go for the special hearing.  I was annoyed enough
at his statement -- he was *very* cagey -- but there was still
enough there after my sandbagging job to support 4 grounds for
appeal.

I wrote a 15-page opening statement.  The D.A. replied with not-a-lot
less.  (My favorite quote from the D.A., committed to memory:
"Appellant's cases are as stale as the milk-based paint on Berkeley
Councilwoman Nancy Skinner's walls.")  !!!  This case had nothing
to do with Berkeley -- it was in Oakland. . . .

I didn't go to oral argument, since it the D.A. managed to continue the
date till a week before my finals.  I lost.

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_