From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Funny
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:29:03 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1992Oct03.232740.24363@NeoSoft.com>, peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
> In article <6112.2acc701e@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>> I don't understand your reasoning. You're saying that the Mas is better for
>> real work than Windows, but you still think Windows is "better designed." 
> 
> The Windows *GUI* is better designed. The display management and command
> metaphor, and the system software components that implement it.

Examples. I need examples. These general statements just don't work. I
just have to disagree.

>> I don't see how this can be. If you had a completely differnt implementation
>> of Windows that worked exactly the same way, it would still suck dead
>> gerbils.
> 
> If you had the Windows GUI on top of (say) OS/9 (a 6809/68000 O/S that showed
> up in the early '80s, and is currently used for CDI) It would blow the Mac out
> of the water in every category.

I'm familiar with OS/9. I have a tiny little homebrew 6809 system at home
that runs OS/9. It is basically a miniature Unix. 

I don't see how you can come to this conclusion. The Windows UI is lousy.
It doesn't matter what kind of OS you put under it, it is still lousy.

> But here seems to bethis rule that good GUIs get crummy operating systems...
> or cost a bomb (like the Next, say).

What about Windows NT? Won't that improve the situation on the OS side?

But I thought we were talking user interfaces.....

>> Furthermore, it isn't a standard shortcut for Windows.
> 
> If it was a menu item in any application, it would have a shortcut
> automatically.

No it doesn't. The keyboard menu navigation doesn't work when other windows
(such as dialogs) are on top. So, you have to use the real shortcuts, if
you can remember them.

>> I wonder why you chose "Print Draft" as an example, when Windows doesn't
>> even have this as a standard (or even optional) item.
> 
> Because I haven't used Windows in a few years, but I use a Mac every day.

This doesn't make sense. Peter, are you taking some sort of mind-altering
drugs? We were talking about the Windows UI. You then came up with an example
that wasn't even in Windows. What does that prove?

> I could have used "Frooble Sigquack" (ALT<RS>). The point wasn't the
> specific option, but that there is a standard way of generating the
> shortcut. I found that a really nice feature, and miss it.

I've shown repeatedly that the keyboard navigation isn't a standard shortcut.

>> ( I can give tons of examples to the contrary, but you seem to be aware of
>>   those as "implementation issues." )
> 
> That's because you're looking at too much of the system (applications, for
> example, and design guidelines) and calling them part of the GUI.

Ah, but you deletely my statement. I asked you for specific examples as to
why you felt Windows was superior as an interface to the Mac OS. I 
reiterate that I can give tons of examples to the contrary, but you seem to
have difficultly coming up with even one.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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