From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #949
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:18:19 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #949		             Mon 17 August 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew Digest Policy Note, PLEASE READ! (Rob Gardner)
  RE: ammonia and phosphates for yeast (Paul dArmond)
  Cider, water (Doug Behm)
  Toronto in October (Theodore B. Samsel)
  Porter recipe (Ted Manahan)
  Mashing, Hefe (doug)
  Great Western Malting closes retail outlet in Corning, CA (Tom Bower)
  cold break/bipotemous (Brian Bliss)
  Coffeemaker Mashtun (Chuck Cox)
  Re: Alt or Koelsch Yeast (Jon Binkley)
  Adjuncts, Oatmeal and mashing (cole)
  Re: magical bliss; pressing apples (Dave Coombs)
  Sanitizing Soda Kegs (Bob Gorman)
  Sassafras, Stout Recipe (James S Durham)
  stack for browsing through digests offered (GEOFF REEVES)
  Thanks for all the response (Karl F. Bloss)
  Wort Chilling (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Re: Mashing from Micah Millspaw, etc. (Jeff Benjamin)
  Be-Gyled by Priming (C.R. Saikley)
  yeast banking---wort aeration (Aaron Birenboim)
  Re: Why bother with yuck? (Bill Szymczak)
  Yeast Nutrient, Vitamin C, and Chillers (Michael L. Hall)
  Allergies (John Stepp)
  labels and H2O bottles (David Klumpp)
  Re: Yeast Nutrient (Bob Devine  14-Aug-1992 1505)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Now
From: rdg@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Rob Gardner)
Subject: Homebrew Digest Policy Note, PLEASE READ!



Homebrew Digest Policy Statement

The _purpose_ of the Homebrew Digest is to discuss the amateur
production of beer, and includes all aspects of brewing. Though the
main focus is on malt beverages (beer), we welcome discussions on
homemade wine, mead, and cider, as well as other fermented (but not
distilled) beverages.

The Digest is a grassroots forum, deriving all content (and hence
usefulness) from its subscribers.  The digest is not moderated, edited
or censored in (hardly) any way, and so the overriding guideline for
content is *constructiveness*.  Simply put, if you have something
constructive to say, then it is welcome, otherwise it is not. If you
have something to say that you wouldn't feel comfortable saying to
somebody's face, then it is probably not going to be welcome in the
digest either. And in agreement with standard network policy, crass
commercialism is frowned upon.

If a contributor does not adhere to this guideline, I suggest that he
be deluged with *private* flames, since, as stated above, I will
(hopefully) not censor digest content. In other words, government of
the digest will be minimal, and the subscribers have to police
themselves in order to maintain the digest's record of lots of signal
and little noise.

Requests to me for back issues, archives, cat's meow, instructions for
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better for everyone!

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: RE: ammonia and phosphates for yeast

RESEARCHES ON FERMENTATION

M. Pasteur, of Lille, has recently been awarded  a prize by the French
Academy for his researches on fermentation which throw much light on this
little-understood department of chemistry.

He shows that the germ in which fermentation originates is a living
substance,-- organic, not inorganic, as some suppose; and leads to the
conclusion that there is a remarkable analogy between fermentation and
physiological action.  ...Introduce yeast globules into a mixture
composed of candied sugar, ammoniacal salt, and a phosphate, and the
ammonia will disappear by transformation into the complex albuminous matter
of the yeast, while the phosphate gives it left up to form new globules.

 ...From this [analysis] it is evident that the yeast plant can only grow
where it can obtain a due supply of nitrogenous and mineral matter.
When, by the presence of a salt of ammonia and phosphates, these conditions
were abundantly supplied, M. Pasteur found the development of the yeast
plant rapid and the fermentation exceedingly active; but when the growth
of the plant could only take place through the assimilation of albuminous
substances that were already appropriated, as in grapes, beet-roots, etc.,
the same processes went on, but with diminished velocity.

- -- from the Annual of Scientific Discovery:  or, Year-book of Facts in
Science and Art for 1861.  Edited by David A. Wells, A.M. Author of
Principles of Natural Philosophy, Principles of Chemistry, Science of
Common Things, etc.  Boston:  Gould and Lincoln, 1861.


------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:32:53 CDT
From: Doug Behm <DBEHM@UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Cider, water

In reading my post on sassafras, it should read at elevations of up to
5000 ft. If anybody tries to make root beer from real roots , I would like
to know how it turns out. I noticed a post a few issues back about using
R.B. extract, the resulting brew seemed weak. I read some place to use
two bottles of extract (double of what you would usually use). I tried
it but half the bottles exploded and I was too scared to try and open
the others.
I have read alot about cider making but have I missed the posting of any
recipes?
RE: boiled water -  usually use tap water to bring my wort up to 5 gal
in my fermenter. I haven't had a problem but I never thought about it.
I use tap water because it is very cold and shortens the cooling time
and, in my mind, lessened the time for airborne bugs to enter.
Birmingham has had a micro brewery opened. The beer is good,
reminds me of an IPA. First brewery in AL in about 60 years. Made me
wonder why UA1VM distributes this letter (Bible belt and all that).
Afraid to ask, may cancel if powers that be realize it.

------------------------------

Date: Friday, August 14, 1992  07:15:16
From: TBSAMSEL@qvarsa.er.usgs.gov (Theodore B. Samsel)
Subject: Toronto in October


Fellow HBDers,
   My wife and I shall be in Toronto for a week around the first
of October. Could some kind Torontoid (Toronter/Torontian/whatever)
or former resident of that burg tell us of any brewpubs/beer stores
etc. (and local brews) that would be worth our trying out?
   regards,
   Ted (TBSAMSEL@QVARSA.ER.USGS.GOV)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 08:12:16 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm@hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Porter recipe
Full-Name: Ted Manahan


> Does anyone have a recipe (grain or extract) for a SN porter like brew?
> Any clues as to how to get that creamy taste?

I came pretty close with the recipe for Silver Dollar Porter from the
original TCJOHB. Another similar recipe is "Tina Marie Porter" from the
Cat's Meow. Both of these are all grain recipies.

The porter that I made was based on these two recipies. It turned out
very smooth and creamy - I attribute this to the high final gravity I
got from a long slow mash. My FG was 1.022, which is pretty thick.

Ted Manahan
tedm@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
503/750-2856

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:04:55 EDT
From: doug <doug@metabolism.bitstream.com>
Subject: Mashing, Hefe


According to Micah Millspaw:

   >I start the mash fairly tight 20-24oz per lb. and add sufficiently
   >hot water to make the temperature steps I want without exceeding
   >32oz per lb grain to water, for a normal mash.

   What do you folks think about this... pretty standard, rule of
   thumb sort of stuff?  Seems to measure up pretty closely with
   Miller, Papaz. etc. recipes.  I just never thought along those
   lines, I guess that's why Micah has the ribbons to show for it....

   Secondly, I assume in this "insulated cooler type mash tun" that a
   grain bag is used?

Another note from yesterday...

   >both hefe and klar beers are filtered

   I thought hefe was unfilterd. I know that Sprecher's Hefe is
   unfiltered.

 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
   Allison, my ale is true...
   Doug Connolly                Bitstream, Inc.      (617) 497-6222
   uunet!huxley!doug            215 First St.            X618
   doug@bitstream.com           Cambridge, MA  02142
 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 8:34:13 PDT
From: Tom Bower <bower@hprnlme1.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Great Western Malting closes retail outlet in Corning, CA

Just a note to let all you HBDers know:  Great Western Malting has closed
its one and only retail outlet in Corning, California.  They used to sell
5 & 10 lb boxes of specialty malts and 11, 22 and 40-lb boxes of two-row
malt direct to homebrewers...but no longer.  I called their Vancouver, WA
office (which had sent my check and order form back to me when I tried to
order grain from Corning) and they now have a 2000-lb. minimum order (I
don't think I'd have much luck explaining THAT to my wife).

If you want more info, you can try contacting:

                        Lee Ann Stewart
                        Shipment Coordinator
                        Great Western Malting Co.
                        P.O. Box 1529
                        Vancouver, WA  98668-1529
                        (206) 693-3661
                        (503) 285-7711
                        FAX (206) 699-9381

Now I'm wondering where to get high quality, affordable grain...join a home-
brew club and take advantage of co-op buying?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:00:31 CDT
From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: cold break/bipotemous

>  All this talk about cold break material got me to thinking about something.
>I do (90%) full wort boils in a 10 gallon brewpot and use a counterflow
>chiller. Usually 8 to 9 gallon batches, all grain. After I am finished boiling,
>I put the finishing hops in the brewpot and put the lid on for 30 minutes.
>Then I siphon through the counterflow chiller. The wort coming out of the
>chiller is a murky brown color, (for a pale ale). Between the time I pitch
>and the time the yeast takes off, 3 to 4 inches of "fluffy break" material
>will settle into the bottom of the carboy, then when the yeast takes off,
>it all gets mixed back up together again. It usually take a week of so
>before the fermentation has settled down to the point that  the wort clears
>again. At this point, the material is more compact and is only 1 to 2 inches
>in the bottom of the carboy. I rack into the secondary at this time. It is
>usually within 10 S.G. points of being finished.
>
>I figure this is probably hot and cold break material, though I do get
>around a quart of hot break in the bottom of the brewpot. Any comments about
>this "fluffy break" that gets stirred up during primary fermentation?

By all means siphon the beer off of this break material before
fermentation begins.  This also gives you another chance to re-aereate
the wort to help the yeast reproduce.  It is also interesting to
note that this break material does not form with the "mix the
concentrated wort with cold water method".  It is a sign that your
boil was sufficiently long and you did everything right - why
waste all that effort and let it get mixed back into solution
where it can stay and cause haze and/or affect flavor?

- --------------------

>Assuming that I boil 2.5 gallons in each pot and hop only one of the pots.
>I'm using the AAU system described by Miller in TCHoHB, would the utilization
>be the same as if I boiled and hopped the entire volume?
>
>I'm guessing not, simply because of the volume of wort present to dissolve
>hop resins into.

why don't you just divide the hops evenly between the two pots,
and mix them (carefully, w/o causing oxidation) throughout the
boil?  (That's what I do...)

bb


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 9:21:54 EDT
From: Chuck Cox <chuck@synchro.com>
Subject: Coffeemaker Mashtun

I just bought a cafeteria coffeemaker for $1.

It appears to be a near-perfect mashtun.  It has a pair of side-by-side
5 gal tubs, all stainless.  It has a swivelling sparge head, temperature
control, dual sparge/fill timers, some kind of recirculating pump, and
what appears to be an overflow or level sensor.

As far as I can tell, I just need to add false bottoms and a more
accurate thermometer to turn this into a semi-automatic recirculating
mash/lauter tun.

Has anyone out there already done this? Any advice? After a thorough
disassembly & cleaning, the first batch will be a nice big stout (with
an involuntary hint of coffee).  What is a good cleaner to remove coffee
taste/aroma from stainless? I don't have to remove lots of gunk, the
system is already very clean, and I know it works, I had coffee out of
it last week.

I bought it from Bose Corp (a client), so I'm going to call it the
AcoustiMash B-)

- --
Chuck Cox <chuck@synchro.com>
In de hemel is geen bier, daarom drinken wij het hier.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:35:19 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley@beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alt or Koelsch Yeast


johnf@persoft.com (John Freeborg) wrote:

>I've recently had a few Kolsch beers and an Alt beer and have really
>enjoyed the style.  From what I can gleam from books and other brewers,
>the yeast is a key element in a good Kolsch.  Does anybody know where to
>get a good culture of authentic Kolsch or Alt yeast?  Is there any
>brands that I might be able to get it from the bottle dregs?

Wyeast's European Ale yeast is a good Alt yeast.  All imported
Alts I've seen are pasteurized, as are the few Koelschs that
make it over.  I know of no sources of authentic Koelsch yeast,
but I'm of the opinion that Wyeast's German Ale yeast, #1007,
would make a pretty good rendition of a Koelsch.

Jon Binkley


------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:18:11 PDT
From: cole%nevis.hepnet@Lbl.Gov
Subject: Adjuncts, Oatmeal and mashing


Hello all.  I found the extensive discussions concerning mashing/non-mashing
of adjuncts this summer to be refreshingly restrained, polite, and informative.
So far I have only brewed extract beers and have always steeped my grains
rather than mashing them. Early in the summer I posted a comment about problems
I encountered when "steeping" rolled oats. As a result of the discussion I will
probably start doing partial mashes on the way to doing full mashes. However,
there are some technical aspects concerning the use of adjuncts that I feel
the discussion only danced around which I would like to see addressed. I'm sure
I could find answers in the Principles of Brewing Science etc... but to be
honest I don't have time right now for such an involved study so I hope the
experts in this forum can enlighten me.

Question 1: What exactly is one trying to extract from adjunct malts ? My
		impression is that for kilned malts like chocolate or black
		malts we want the coloring agents and coloring aflavor imparte
		by the kilning process. What provides these flavors ? Most of
		the color and some of the flavor seems to be provided by
		burnt malt (ie. soot) but are there also complex
		carbohydrates, proteins, oils etc... extracted ?
		I basically understand (I think) that Crystal malt
		provides complex sugars, but what else ?

Question 2: Same as 1, but for unmalted barley, wheat, and oats ? I used roasted
		barley in my stout and could clearly detect its presence even
		though I only steeped it. What did I get out ? I find the
		typical answer of "aromatics" to be very unenlightening. What
		exactly are these "aromatics" ?

Question 3: For both of the above, how are mashing and steeping different in
		what they extract from the malts/grains (aside from the obvious
		difference that mashing provides converted sugars and
  	        steeping does not. As I see it, the point of using of adjuntcs
		is not to provide more sugars, so I'm not sure
		I really understand the need for mashing. Does the mashing
		process also facilitate the release of [fill in the blank] ?

I realize that the anwers to these questions may be complicated, but I think
they would help me and others better understand the use of adjuct malts and
unmalted grains.

An unrelated question. While travelling in Germany this summer I tried a
Weizenbock for the first time. It was made by a brewery called Maisel or
something like that -- may have spelling wrong. It was quite good. The
label had a Star-of-David on it with Bayreuth (I think) written under it.
I didn't have a chance to check with the locals but I thought Bayreuth might
be Beruit in German. Can anyone tell me about this brewery or about
Bayreuth ? I am interested in knowing whether this beer really came from
Beruit, is brewed under contract in Germany for an outfit in Beruit,
or is simply a German beer.

Thanks to both Rob for maintaining this forum and to all those who provide
useful information and constructive criticism.

Brian Cole


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:38:28 -0400
From: Dave Coombs <coombs@cme.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: magical bliss; pressing apples

In #948, Chris McDermott sez:
>> While beer will give you that magical bliss,
>> the more you drink the more you ...

miss?

Aaron Birenboim asks about pressing apples.  Sometimes you can find a
local pressing place (probably at an orchard) that will let you press
your apples there for a small fee.  It might be as much fun as renting
a press.  You might even find an antique hand-cranked press, if you're
really feeling your oats.

	dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:36:17 EDT
From: bob@rsi.com (Bob Gorman)
Subject: Sanitizing Soda Kegs

There have been some recent discussions about the effects of using
bleach to sanitize kegs.  I just wanted to take this opportunity
let people know how I sanitize my kegs.  I don't use bleach because
I don't like to give my kegs a final rinse with unsanitized water,
especially when using them for primary fermentation.  My tap water
smells, tastes and looks like a pond (think of fish juice).  I
don't like to get this stuff anywhere near my beer without boiling
it first.  So I sanitize my kegs with boiling water and here's how.

First I boil up about 2 gallons of water on the stove, for about
20 minutes.  This is then dumped into the keg facilitated by a
funnel, wear shoes when doing this.  The lid is then snapped into
place and the keg agitated to raise the internal pressure in the
keg and create a positive seal with the lid.  After this the keg
is laid down on its side and is casually rolled around on the
kitchen floor for a while.  When it's time to remove the water a
hose and liquid disconnect is attached.  Some of the water pushes
its self out from the existing internal pressure, and the rest is
pushed out with CO2.  I  usually run this water through my tap
lines to keep them nice and clean.

After this I pressurize the keg with CO2.  As the air in the keg
cools down it will create a negative pressure and suck air back in
through the lid.  The pressureization prior to cooling negates
this effect and also adds an additional blanket of CO2 to the keg.

The end result is a sanitary hose, liquid disconnect, and keg which
has nice blanket of CO2 in it.  And what better to do with it then
to fill it with beer.

This may sound like a lot of work, but it's actually pretty easy.
Using boiling water helps me relax about sanitation and there's no
need to fuss with chemicals.

Cheers!

- -- Bob Gorman                   bob@rsi.com           Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc    uunet!semantic!bob    +1 617 926 0979 --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:56 PDT
From: James S Durham <js_durham@pnlg.pnl.gov>
Subject: Sassafras, Stout Recipe


     I have noticed some discussion on sassafras used to make real root
     beer.  I originally came from Illinois, where my wife's family enjoyed
     finding and making tea out of sassafras root.  When we visited the
     covered bridge festival in Indiana last year, we were told that it is
     illegal to sell sassafras root in the US because it is very
     carcinogenic.  Compared to sassafras, tobacco is a low risk substance.
     I do not know if this is factual, since I did not hear about it from
     an expert, but it may explain the difficulty in obtaining sassafras in
     commercial stores.  Does anyone else have additional information?

     I use several "standard" extract recipes when brewing.  These recipes
     have always produced outstanding results, IMHO, and in the HO of most
     of my friends.  Sometimes my friends don't believe that I actually
     made the stuff.  So here is my favorite stout recipe, which I was
     given by Tom Bellinger, owner of "Jim's Homebrew Supply" in Spokane,
     WA.  No, I don't work there and I infrequently buy supplies there,
     much to Tom's chagrin.  But he does have great recipes!

     WATSON'S ALEMENTARY STOUT

     Ingredients for 5 gallons:

     6 lb. Dark DME
     1 lb. Crystal Malt
     3/4 lb. Roasted Barley
     1/4 lb. Black Patent Malt
     2 oz. Galena Hop Pellets (30 + 30 min. boil)
     1 oz. Cluster Hop Flowers (1 minute boil)

     Add cracked crystal malt, roasted barley, and black patent malt to 1.5
     gallons cold water.  Bring slowly to a boil.  Remove spent grains and
     sparge with 2 quarts hottest tap water.  Add DME and return to boil.
     Add 1 oz. Galena hop pellets and boil 30 minutes.  Add second ounce
     Galena hop pellets and boil another 29 minutes.  Add cluster hop
     flowers and boil 1 minute.  I cool the wort with an immersion wort
     chiller, then pour the wort through a wire strainer and sparge with 2
     quarts boiling water.  Pitch yeast (EDME works very well) when wort is
     at 75F.  Ferment out completely (about 1 week), prime (3/4 c. corn
     sugar), and bottle.  Ready to drink in 1 more week, but improves
     steadily until it's all gone (usually about 3 months if I ration it).

     This recipe produces a full-flavored stout beer that will mask any
     off-flavors, including infection, O-rings on soda canisters, etc.
     When kegged and kept at a pressure of 25 psi, it resembles Guinness
     stout (the Irish version) when poured into a glass.  It's taste,
     however, it somewhat sweeter than Guinness, more reminiscent of
     Murphy's Stout (another popular stout served in Ireland).  This beer
     is the closest thing to a true Irish stout that I have encountered in
     this country.

     Sometime later I'll post another recipe or two.

     Jim Durham

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:10:29 -0600
From: 105277@essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: stack for browsing through digests offered


Greetings fellow brewers,
	I have been working on a tool for browsing through the
digests and I guess it's time to share it with the rest of
you. I find it makes reading this group a lot easier and it
also makes it easier to keep articles that I'm interested in
for future reference. I know that there are other digest
browsers around and one has been offered here before but I
decided to write one that fits my needs better and it may fit
yours better too.

The "Reeves Digest Browser" is a hypercard stack which makes it
easy to navigate through digests. It is for use with Macintosh
computers. It is called the "Reeves Digest Browser" to
distinguish it from other Digest Browsers which are around.
It reads text digests into hypercard putting contents information
into a contents window and each message into its own message
window. It should work on any digest but has been tested only
on the homebrew and grateful dead digests.

You can import single digests or multiple digests. Once that's
done, messages can be shown by clicking on the contents window,
choosing "read messages", clicking "next" or "previous" message
buttons, or choosing the message number. Messages can also
be edited and/or exported to their own files. Complete help is
available for all buttons and fields by option-clicking on the
button or field you want to know about. This stack is offered
as shareware.

I'm not worried about the moral implications of commercializing
this group because I'm willing to trade the stack for homebrew ;-)

It is available by anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu
	/pub/homebrew/incoming
gdead.src.emu.edu
	/pub/gdead/drop-box
and I have sent it to sumex.stanford.edu but I don't think it
is available just yet. You can also do a decnet copy from
essdp1.lanl.gov disk0:[105277.tohome]. Finally you can just
send me e-mail and I'll mail it to you.



Geoff Reeves
reeves@essdp1.lanl.gov


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:23:54 -0400
From: blosskf@ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: Thanks for all the response

Although I responded individually to many of those I received tips from,
I'd like to thank all those that took an interest.  I got a plethora of
good ideas, many of which were echoed by all.  This says that you all know
what you're talking about.

I'm heading to Germany in about a month.  Is there anything I should look
for there that is not available here?

 -K


***********************************************************************
* Karl F. Bloss, Systems Engineer  | "We're number one on the runway" *
* Research & Engineering Systems   |                                  *
* Air Products & Chemicals, Inc.   |   Neil Armstrong, preparing to   *
* 7201 Hamilton Boulevard          |   blast off for the moon         *
* Allentown, PA  18195-1501        |                                  *
* Telephone: (215) 481-5386        |                                  *
* FAX:       (215) 481-2446        |                                  *
* internet: blosskf@ttown.apci.com |                                  *
* Prodigy : DPXM52A                |                                  *
***********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:34:00 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Wort Chilling

This is for people who need or want to save water.  You can
put your wort chiller in line with your hot water heater.
What you will need is three valves, two "T"s, a short length
of pipe, and some garden hose.  During normal use you open
valve 1 and close valves 2 & 3, during chilling you open
valves 2 & 3, and close valve 1.

You don't want to put this into your whole house water inlet
since you would be heating your cold water also.  All you
would have to do is plan to do something that needs hot water
and while you are doing that your wort is cooling down.  You
can shower, do dishes, do laundry, or anything else that uses
hot water.  This system not only saves water but it also
recycles the heat.




                        valve 1
                         ___
                          |
- -------------------------------------------------------------
to heater                 X                 from water source
- ----------:   :---------------------------:   :--------------
          :   :                           :   :
          : X :--| valve 2                : X :--| valve 3
          :   :                           :   :
          from chiller                    to chiller




















B^2

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:40:02 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Mashing from Micah Millspaw, etc.

Micah Millspaw posts:
> It is a simple thing to increase
> the mash temperature by adding more hot water at the time it is needed
> for the step increase. The mash out can be conducted the same way. This
> approach to mashing is a part of the gentle mash that can reduce the
> effects of hot oxygen reactions.

The statement that oxygen reactions can be bad even in the mash makes me
wonder about old-fashioned small brewery mash tuns, the open kind with
big rotating paddles that vigorously mix the mash.  Are they reducing
the quality of their beer without knowing it?

Perhaps, back in the old days, that was the only way they could keep
a constant mash temperature with their direct-fired tuns.  Lack of
high-quality insulating materials and matters of scale may have kept
small commercial brewers from using the "add-water-to-an-insulated-tun"
scheme that many homebrewers today use.

John Freeborg asks:
> Does anybody know where to
> get a good culture of authentic Kolsch or Alt yeast?  Is there any
> brands that I might be able to get it from the bottle dregs?

My roomate brews a pretty close Kolsch approximation using the Wyeast
European Ale, which is fairly neutral.  Actually, we think one of the
keys to the Kolsch style is cold-conditioning:  doing a tertiary
fermentation at about 40F for 10-14 days.  That helps give it some of
the "cleanness" of a lager even though the primary and secondary are at
ale temps (67F in our basement).  If you do find a source for Kolsch
yeast, though, please post it.

Then Roy Styan brings up the subject of malt modification again:
> I've reciently started using british two row pale malt...
> hence have dispensed with the protien rest during the mash....
> The beers have been working out just fine, but
> I've noticed that the primary fermentation takes about twice as long as
> it did before.

The difference in proteins depends on what kind of malt you used
previously.  The consensus was that all commercially available malt
these days is highly modified, so you'll get the same amount of protein
extraction whether or not you do a protein rest (very little of the
protein is locked up in the endosperm, as it would be with an
under-modified malt).  It is possible that the grain has different
amounts of other nutrients due to different growing conditions.

I assume everthing else, besides the malt, is the same as before,
especially the yeast.  I've found that different strains of yeast can
make a huge difference in fermentation rate of a given wort.  I can't
think of anything bad a slow fermentation might do, barring a slightly
greater risk of infection at the start (not as much alcohol as soon to
keep the nasties away).

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 11:59:26 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Be-Gyled by Priming


Niel Mager writes:

   >I brewed a wheat beer which should be done aging this
   >weekend. This week, four bottles decided to break. To prime, I used
   >one gallon of sweet wort that I drew off before pitching. The other
   >bottles seem fine so I don't think I overcarbonated (over
   >primed?) and the gravity levels were right on target. I guess
   >its time to be a little more selective about the bottles I use for bottling.
   >The ones that broke tended to be a little thinner than most of
   >the others.

Before questioning the bottles, I'd take a closer look at the amount of sweet
wort (gyle) used to prime. One gallon sounds like an awful lot (I'm assuming
you're making a standard 5 gallon batch).

I've been priming with gyle for over five years because I prefer the result
to that obtained with corn sugar. While the exact amount of gyle required
varies from batch to batch, for me it usually works out to be somewhere
between 32 and 48oz for 5 gallons. If you back off on the priming, you'll
probably be happier with the result.

   >Wheat beer tends to have more of a head than most other beers.
   >Whats the cause of this? Do these beers have a higher CO2
   >content causing the head (and breaking bottles)? Julius Echter
   >bottles are pretty heavy - probably a good reason for that!

Wheat beers are generally well carbonated, but I suspect what you're referring
to is not the carbonation level, but the head retention instead. Wheat aids
in head retention, and many brewers add it to the mash for that reason.

Cheers,
CR



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:21:29 MDT
From: abirenbo@rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: yeast banking---wort aeration


  1)  Yeast Banking:  I just bought some glycerine...
       how can i freeze yeast cultures?  Do I just
       make my usual S.G. 20 media, but use x%
       glycerine, and pop a test tube in hte freezer?

  2)  I'm thinking of makeing a wort aerator from
      an acquarium pump with a 0.2 micron air filter attached
      in line with the output hose.  My question is...
       when should i plunk the aerator into the wort,
       and for how long should i let it run?

       will the procedure for mead be similar to that
        for beer?

   aaron

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:23:41 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Why bother with yuck?

In HBD 948 in response to someone reporting murky brown
wort coming out of a chiller (for a pale ale) Jack
Schmidling responds:


>I know the pros and cons of immersion vs counterflow have been beaten to
>death but I can't resist pointing out that the wort coming out of the kettle
>after immersion chilling is crystal clear.  I just do not understand why
>anyone wants all that yuck in the fermenter or the bother of letting it
>settle and racking again.

One reason is that I've read somewhere that the trub from the cold
break can assist the yeast in its aerobic phase, and therefore
adding it to the fermenter, and reracking after 6 to 12 hours
is actually a good thing to do, (although I agree it may be a bother).
Perhaps a better reason (for not using an immersion in kettle chiller)
is that in some parts of the country, e.g. in the D.C suburbs of
Maryland, the temperature of the tap water is 80 - 82 degrees F in the
summer and if you want to chill your wort to 75 degrees F, you would
be out of luck. Of course you could first
chill the tap water with some pre-chiller, but this is also a bother.
For this reason, I used an immersion in ice type chiller for my
first attempt at an all-grain brew,
and with about 5 or 6 gallons of ice, was able to cool 6 gallons
of boiling wort to 72 degrees F in 15 minutes.  In the winter,
or in colder climates, the immersion in kettle may be more
attractive.

Bill Szymczak


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:25:24 MDT
From: mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Yeast Nutrient, Vitamin C, and Chillers

Jay Hersh writes:

>Umm, this may be a silly half baked idea, but I was under the
>impression that many commercial yeast nutrients are in fact
>made from yeast.

Not silly at all. That's what I found in my book-foraging experience of a
couple of days ago. Actually, it only makes sense that dead yeast would contain
the things that live yeast needs to grow. I believe that the book I read said
something about washed yeast hulls being used as a yeast nutrient.

Chuck Coronella writes:

>Has no one used ascorbic acid?

>I can vaguely remember, way back when, a discussion in this forum regarding
>the addition of ascorbic acid (also known as vitamin C) to a brew for the
>purpose of preventing oxidation.  Is this done at bottling time?  In what
>quantities?  I s'pose one could add food grade vitamin C available at any
>pharmacy or grocery store, right?

I use vitamin C, I just didn't respond because I thought that everyone else
would :-) Here's my understanding of it:

   1. Add at bottling time, but don't boil it because it destroys the chemical
      structure.
   2. Use about .5 tsp per 5 gallons (if I remember correctly).
   3. It reduces oxidation by grabbing up any available oxygen before it can
      react with the beer.
   4. Supposedly it doesn't matter very much, but if it reduces your worry, use
      it (so I do).

As an interesting side note, I have been recently juicing a bunch of apricots
(for a wine or mead, or maybe both :) and putting the resultant slush into
a gallon jar for keeping. This stuff starts out a dull orange color, but turns
darker brown when exposed to air (oxidation), which happens fairly quickly.
I managed to get almost a full gallon with little oxidation, so I decided to
sprinkle some vitamin C on top of what was left before I put it in the
 refrigerator
to retard any additional oxidation. It's hard to sprinkle through a small hole,
so what I got looked more like a little pile of vitamin C. The next morning, the
little pile and the area around it (within an inch) looked exactly the same as
the night before, but the rest of the surface area had turned brown to a depth
 of
about 1/4 inch. That says something to me about the worth of vitamin C!

About wort chillers:

There have been several posts of late about wort chillers, and a little
confusion.  First of all, there is some confusion about what to call the
different types of chillers. I would like to suggest, for the sake of
discussion, some standard names to use for the different types:

    1. Counterflow chillers - These are the "tube in a tube" chillers, with hot
       wort in the inner tube and cold water in the outer tube, and the two
       liquids are flowing in opposite directions.

    2. Immersion chillers - These are the kind that have a coil of tubing (with
       cold water flowing *inside* the tubing) that is inserted into a pot of
       hot wort. The wort is on the outside of the tube, and water is allowed
       to flow through the tube until the wort is chilled sufficiently.

    3. Bath chillers - These are the chillers where the hot wort flows on the
       inside of a coil of tubing, which is placed in a cold bath of water or
       ice-water.

and, for completeness,

    4. Simple chiller - This is when you set your entire brewpot (containing
       hot wort) in an ice-bath or water-bath or even in the snow!

Some of you have seen the little write-up that I did on one of these kinds, the
bath chiller. It is also roughly applicable to a counterflow chiller, although
a better (more specific) analysis of that type may be done. As far as the
status of that goes, I am planning on submitting it to Zymurgy eventually, but
I want to include analyses of the other types of chillers too and I haven't had
much spare time recently.

There have been some statements that the heat transfer rate is proportional to
the velocity of something. Well, this is true and it isn't :-) The heat
transfer coefficient due to convective heat transfer is

           Nu k            .8   .4  k          ( rho V D ).8   .4  k
       h = ----  = 0.023 Re   Pr   --- = 0.023 ( ------- )   Pr   ---
            D                       D          (    mu   )         D

So that h is proportional to V^{.8}. This means that a fluid moving past a wall
picks up heat faster if it is moving faster. However, since it is moving
faster, the fluid doesn't have as much time to pick up heat from the wall.
These effects almost completely cancel each other out, so that given a fluid
passing through a tube of constant wall temperature, the outlet temperature of
that fluid has only a weak dependence on the velocity of the fluid. This
dependence is not linear, but rather about exp(V^{-.2}), depending on the
correlation you choose.

If you are interested in getting a copy of my write-up, please email me. I am
doing it this way so that I can keep track of who has it (just to send out
revised versions) and because it is so long that I am afraid of jamming the
HBD.

Mike Hall
hall@lanl.gov

P.S. - I will be out of town next week, so I'll answer any questions/requests
       when I return.
P.P.S. - I think I stole this .sig from Guy McConnell, but I really like it :-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fill with mingled cream and amber, I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber through the chamber of my brain --
Quaintest thoughts -- queerest fancies come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances: I am drinking ale today.
                                              - Edgar Allan Poe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:16:03 -0400
From: jxs58@po.CWRU.Edu (John Stepp)
Subject: Allergies



	The current discussion of an allergy to wheat reminded me of my
wife (no, not in that way!).  She suffers from an allergy to some beers,
wines, and cheeses.  Homebrew affects her the worst (bad for her, good
for me).  Her throat swells up and becomes painful.  Researching this
briefly led me to believe that the culprit was tyramine (yeast product).
I'd love to hear any thoughts you folks have about alternate explanations.
Also, if you've come up with a way to reduce/remove this reaction she'd
appreciate it tremendously.

	Thanks for your help.

- --
_______________
Dave Stepp
Dept. of Molecular and Microbiology
Case Western Reserve University

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:42:44 -0600
From: klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp)
Subject: labels and H2O bottles

In response to two recent posts:

I produce labels by designing them with McDraw and printing on Avery 5455
"Adhesive-Backed Full Sheets."  The sheets feed well through our lab's
Macintosh Laserwriter II.  The 8.5x11 sheets give great flexibility for
choosing size and shape.  I can usually squeeze 6-10 labels per sheet,
again depending on size, shape, and whether or not I make neck labels too.
The labels look great and adhere well, although condensation will cause the
label to wrinkle slightly as the paper expands.  The labels also easily
removed without a need for soaking.  At ca. $11/20 sheets (5-10
cents/label), cheaper alternatives certainly exist.

A friend employs one such economical approach.  A sheet of labels is
printed on a laser printer, photocopied, and the label back is wiped with
diluted Elmer's.  Upon drying, the labels adhere well and require only a
brief soak to remove the residual glue.

On procurring water bottles for fermentors, we contact local bottled water
suppliers.  They happily provide empties for $6-8 and are quite amused when
we mention why we want the bottles.

I hope these comments are of use.

                                        Heart quaffing,

                                                        Dave

David Klumpp
Dept of Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Cell Biology
Northwestern U.
klumpp@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
(708) 491-8358 lab
(708) 491-5211 fax


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:13:16 PDT
From: Bob Devine  14-Aug-1992 1505 <devine@sfbay.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Nutrient

Jay Hersh writes:
> Umm, this may be a silly half baked idea, but I was under the
> impression that many commercial yeast nutrients are in fact
> made from yeast.
> Can any professional biologist types comment on the accuracy
> of this idea??

Let me preface by saying that I am certainly not a professional
biochemist nor do I play one on TV, but, the same reasoning struck
me about a year ago.  After all, if the growth of new yeast buds
is limited by the available building material, the best source
for new yeast should be from old yeast, right?

Well the answer is probably true but to get old yeast also means
that bacteria, mold spores, and who knows what will tag along.

So that's were my thought-experiment ended.  I had considered
buying packages of dry brewing yeast or even baking yeast and
grinding it up.  But fear of contamination has me still buying
the over-priced packages of commercial yeast nutrients...

Bob Devine

------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #949, 08/17/92
*************************************
-------