From: mkarimna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mellissa Namazi)
Subject: Re:  THE ARABS etc. (RE: BABAK )
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:47:49 GMT

In article <19509.2b2bb452@levels.unisa.edu.au> 8809787l@levels.unisa.edu.au wr
ites:
>Dorood Bar Shoma Iranianeh Aziz
>
> Much of Agha Payam's EXCELLENT article deleted:(

First let me say how much I enjoyed this post.  When it
comes to Iranian history, it is very hard to say "too much":)

I do however disagree with one very small part of the post.
It says:

>It was these same Iranians That later in their history after the
>invasion of the Arabs introduced the ways of Civilization and
>Scientific Knowledge to the invading Barbarians.
>Here I must explain what is meant firstly by the word ARAB and
>the word BARBARIAN.
>
> SOME DELETED
>
>And the word barbaric refers to uncivilized ie. people who life
>in an unorganised social group with no laws or regards for
>individuals within their community.
>
>I do know that some people may object but the reality of the
>matter is that at the time ( ie. 1300 years ago ) the arabs (
>saudi-arabians ) were uncivilized , barbaric, thoughtless and
>unorganised , but some organisation was provided to them by the
>prophet mohammed through his spiritual and social teachings this
>together with the fact that the SASSANIAN Empire had for many
>years suffered from internal corruption lead to the over throw
>of the king and the arabs took over.
>

     I disagree that the pre-Islamic peoples lived "in an unorganized
social group with no laws or regard for individuals", i.e. barbarians.
True, they were a tribal society, but they had a very developed system
of laws and a high regard for individuals within the tribal structure.
They also had a very rich oral poetic tradition that survived for many
years after the expansion of Islam.

     Mohammd (pbuh) made use of many already existing customs and ideologies
within the tribes of that time.  To a large extent, He worked within
an already developed and existing structure.  If anyone is interested
I would be happy to post a seperate article on this subject (after
the 21 of December when finals end:)

     I know I am taking my life into my own hands by posting this but,
oh well, I seem to have become brave in my old age at SCI.:)

Good Job Payam!
Regards
Mellissa Namazi

>
>
>Ghorbaneh Shoma
>
>Payam
>#! rnews 1078
>Path: levels!8809787l
>From: 8809787l@levels.unisa.edu.au
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
>Subject: RE: IRAN, AFGHANESTAN, THE ARABS etc. (RE: BABAK )
>Message-ID: <19510.2b2bb78e@levels.unisa.edu.au>
>Date: 13 Dec 92 22:22:06 +1030
>Organization: University of South Australia
>Lines: 30
>
>Doostan Salam
>
>I just wanted to give you the list of the references which I mensioned in my
>last posting about Iran and its history etc.
>
>1) The Last Two Million Years, Published by Reader's Digest Association 1973
>
>2) The Persians, by Jim Hicks ( Time-Life Books ) 1975
>
>3) The New Illustrated History of the World: The Awakening of Man 250000 BC to
>   100 BC, by Postgate, Hawkins and Kemp, 1970
>
>4) Islam and the Arab World, by Knopf, published by American Heritage
>   publishing, 1976
>
>5) Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition 1910
>
>6) Ancient Civilizations: PERSIA I from origins to the Achaemenids,by
>   Jean-Louis Huot, 1971
>
>7) The Cambridge History of ISLAM ( volume 2 ), by Holt, Lambton & Lewis 1970
>
>
>
>Well these are all the references for my last posting.
>
>Ghorbaneh Shoma
>
>payam
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian