HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Turbo Pascal 7.0
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:41:09 GMT

chard@genghis.borland.com (Richard Nelson) writes:

[stuff about multiple inheritance in TP deleted.]

>If such changes are "free," then perhaps you have a point.  But suppose it
>significantly slows down the compilation process?

I could live with this.  I can't think of a reason why allowing for
multiple inheritance would slow down compilations signficantly except
when I was using it.  In programs that used multiple inheritance, I
would happily give the compiler more time -- it is doing work that I
have to do by hand now.

>  Or increases the size of the resulting code?

Again, why would multiple inheritance increase code size relative to
the work arounds?

>  Or distracts the compiler developers from working
>on extensions that can't be worked around as easily?

Elimination of "features" that are hard to work around is a worthy
goal, but not necessarily the most important goal.

--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
From: jonathan@nova.next.nd.edu (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Subject: TVision - Anything I should know?
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:15:26 GMT

I am about to go delving into TurboVision. I have heard of some problems
with it (something about a keyboard problem with the built in keyboard
reader for some key?)  Anything I should know? Patches? Utilities?

Thanks for anything.

--
 Jonathan Bradshaw | jonathan@nova.decio.nd.edu -or- jbradsh2@darwin.cc.nd.edu
  Packet: n9oxe@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na | Prodigy: XMSN02B | (Os/2)(DOS)(Linux)
  WNDU-AM/FM/TV South Bend, IN | Disclaimer "My opinions are not my employers"
  - "Busy life, not enough time to look in the mirror." - Deborah Ann Gibson -
Xref: sparky comp.lang.pascal:5791 alt.msdos.programmer:2495 comp.os.msdos.programmer:9708
From: jblackwe@eve.wright.edu (John Blackwell)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal,alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: Hi() and Lo() functions?
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:07:59 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

In article <1992Sep30.071546.20677@afterlife.ncsc.mil> hcbarth@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Bart Bartholomew) writes:
>
>	AAAArrrrrgh.  Don't use divides, or mods to get
>power-of-2 remainders.  I don't know if it's PC in new
>computerspeak, but a shift operator is much faster than

I believe that the optimizer in Turbo Pascal 5.0+ replaces a divide or
multiply by a power of 2 with a shift instruction at the bit level.  It
may not be true, but that's what I believe.

		--John Blackwell
From: camdna@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Darren Natale)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
Subject: Re: speaker too high to hear?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:22:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep30.151713.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, regy109@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes...
>In article <717819779.F00002@leotech.mv.com>, jcrowley@leotech.mv.com (Jon Crowley) writes:
>> I tried using the speaker at very high hertz (I didn't hear a thing).
>> Does this really make a sound on the standard PC speaker, or does the
>> software just "know" that it can't make a sound that high and ignore
>> it?
> 
>Most likely, output is limited by what the cruddy speaker on your average PC
>can do - I imagine the high-frequency response is pretty bad.  I doubt there's
>any software involved - generating a sound only involves outputting to a
>couple of ports.
>                                     - Ed.

It is also possible that you don't hear it, but someone else might. People
differ in their ability to hear above (or below) a certain pitch.

DN
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
Subject: Re: Needing endangered (if not extinct) source code.
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:46:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep27.154641.2702
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

choate@acs.harding.edu (Brad S. Choate) writes:

>Does anybody know of any source code for Borland's Turbo Access (I believe
>that's the proper name) which is no longer supported??

Find someone with a copy, who wants to sell. Or buy Turbopower's B-Tree
Filer package and convert the source to use that (except for the "header
record" the data formats are the same, the indexes will have to be rebuilt).

Turbopower gives pretty detailed instructions on how to convert Turbo Access
files.
-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
From: rfulk@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bob Fulkerson - Creighton)
Subject: TPW 1.0 ... SETS?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:02:09 GMT

Argh!  After perusing the manual for TPW 1.0, I can't seem to figure out
how to set up a set (pardon the pun) containing such elements as ...

PROGRAM, VAR, BEGIN, INTEGER ... etc

I am writing a lexical analyzer for my compiler class and it would be
helpful to set up sets (pardon the pun again) containing the key words
that I'm analyzing for.

I was able to define a set of symbols such as :,;,+,- ... etc.  But no
matter however I try to define a set containing the words above, TPW
tells me that it's looking for an ordinal set ... 

I am really stuck, and it's probably really basic, but your help would
be MOST appreciated ... me and my grade would be ever grateful!  ;->

-- Bob

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
 Robert Fulkerson, Creighton University  .   The Endless Forest BBS <EF>   .
            rfulk@unomaha.edu            .     forest.unomaha.edu 2001     .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
From: peter@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: Pascal Compiler for writing an NLM
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:37:26 GMT

I need a Pascal Compiler to write a NetWare Load Module.

OOP would be desirable.

Do they exist?  If so, where from?

I will watch this news group for about a week,  otherwise send me e-mail.

Peter
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.Tattam                                    International Phone 61-02-202346
Programmer, Psychology Department           Australia     Phone   002-202346
University of Tasmania, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tannerr@CS.ORST.EDU (Ryan Tanner)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
Subject: Re: TVision - Anything I should know?
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:37:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: CS.1992Oct03.193705.7070
Reply-To: tannerr@prism.cs.orst.edu
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept
Originator: tannerr@storm.CS.ORST.EDU

jonathan@nova.next.nd.edu (Jonathan Bradshaw) writes:

>I am about to go delving into TurboVision. I have heard of some problems
>with it (something about a keyboard problem with the built in keyboard
>reader for some key?)  Anything I should know? Patches? Utilities?

>Thanks for anything.

>--
> Jonathan Bradshaw | jonathan@nova.decio.nd.edu -or- jbradsh2@darwin.cc.nd.edu
>  Packet: n9oxe@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na | Prodigy: XMSN02B | (Os/2)(DOS)(Linux)
>  WNDU-AM/FM/TV South Bend, IN | Disclaimer "My opinions are not my employers"
>  - "Busy life, not enough time to look in the mirror." - Deborah Ann Gibson -

First, the TV manual is messed up in my opinion.  Read chaps 1, 3, 4, and 5
BEFORE reading chapter 2.  THEN read chap 2 (which is a detailed set of
examples with minimal background information... you'll get lost for sure.)

Dr. Dobb's Journal did about 5 or so articles on TV starting with issure 183
(I think).  You may want to look them up in your local university library.
It has some good stuff on how to make new classes streamable.

Ryan (tannerr@prism.cs.orst.edu)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Tanner (tannerr@prism.cs.orst.edu)        Highlander III quote:
                                                   "There can be only FIVE!"
Disclaimer:  I don't even know the person!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Subject: Re: j 5.1, pc, 386
Reply-To: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Organization: Snake Island Research Inc, Toronto
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 04:19:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.050630.20383@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> hui@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Roger Hui) writes:
>Alain Delmotte wrote (1992-08-31 09:38:12):
> 
>> 7!:0 is not *free* workspace size as quadWA but *used now* workspace size
>> which means that using 7!:0 '', entering some function definitions, and using
>> again 7!:0 '' should show an increase in the size returned.
> 
>> I would like to have the same quadWA but I suppose there are very good
>> reasons why it is not implemented. Roger?
> 
>A quad-wa facility is difficult to provide given the way J treats memory.
>J uses malloc/free from the C library.  malloc dynamically allocates memory;
>free releases memory previously allocated using malloc.  J itself does

I think Roger's objections are reasonable, but I, too, belong to the
old school, and crave a quad-wa. Here's a possible way to get there:

a. Introduce a heap manager, and allocate from the heap from a once-
   allocated (via malloc) lump of storage. The heap manager worries about
   silliness like where-does-the-storage-live-really. 

b. Modify J to use macros to perform malloc and free, and redefine them
   to call the heap manager instead. This might result, independently from
   any other changes, in marginally better J performance.

c. Introduce a storage counter which can tell from the heap how much storage
   is really available, and have the quadwa thingy invoke it.

d. If you want to get fancy, make J storage references one-way indirect,
   and then you can (for the cost of slower references a lot of the time)
   perform garbage collection. 

I don't propose to do this in the next few weeks, and I doubt if Roger has
the time to do it either.
Bob



Robert Bernecky      rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.com  bernecky@itrchq.itrc.on.ca 
Snake Island Research Inc  (416) 368-6944   FAX: (416) 360-4694 
18 Fifth Street, Ward's Island
Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9 
Canada
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: rockwell@socrates.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell)
Subject: Re: j 5.1, pc, 386
Organization: Traveller
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:22:23 GMT

Robert Bernecky:
   > In this case, it's heap fragmentation and virtual storage problems.

David Gillett:
       Is it?  I would have thought it was something like: How can my
     program make run-time choices between size-intensive and
     speed-intensive approaches based on available resources?  I do
     agree that simply implementing an exact analogue of quadWA is not
     the answer, but I think we disagree about the real question.

If the question is "how should we deal with finite storage limits",
may I suggest an entirely different class of thought?

Memory, with current technology, is generally a complex hierarchy of
storage devices with varying speed/cost ratios.  You have registers,
caches, "memory", more caches, disk, tape, ...  And, generally, if
you're capable of putting up with slower times you can gain access to
greater storage.

One obvious solution to this problem is to bring more storage into the
picture, so degradation due to "not enough memory" becomes a time
restriction rather than a catastrophic failure.  This would make
estimates of time-to-compute somewhat more complex than a "flat memory
of infinite size", but it should be fairly useful.

I've been on a variety of machines which have crashed due to
insufficient resources allocated for system use.  I've seen this
happen on Suns, DECs, IBMs, and I suspect I've seen it on HPs.  As
systems get larger and more complex, I suspect that overall system
load will be far more critical than the niceties of how an address
space is mapped to physical devices.

APL is a nice notation for expressing operations on large quantities
of data -- it seems to me that it would be even nicer if this data
could live in a file system without having to express the nitty gritty
details of how it's cached in silicon memory.  [I think an
implementation of J "locale" would be a good step in this direction.]

Comments?

-- 
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell                   <rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: sam@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Sirlin)
Subject: Re: box vs. nest
Originator: sam@kalessin
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:48:22 GMT


In article <921005051057_70530.1226_CHH4-3@CompuServe.COM>, Mike Kent <70530.1226@CompuServe.COM> writes:
|> In article <1992Sep30.231307.21354@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM>,
|> loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton) writes:
|> > ... the pervasion of functions into the depths of APL2 arrays has
|> > absolutely nothing to do with the definition of enclose ...
|> 
|> Not so.  The Dictionary enclose produces a result which is of a different
|> *datatype* from its argument (and all <'d arrays are of the same data
...
|> The pervasiveness of scalar functions
|> in APL2 is a consequence of two design decisions:  scalar extension
|> continues to apply to nested arrays; nesting does not produce new data
|> types.  

This would imply that APL2 doesn't allow the mixing of data types in
one array, as that would be a new data type. Personally I think that
is the main power of boxes - they introduce the structure concept
which is very powerful and useful. One simple, powerful example is the
self-documenting array. This surprises me as I thought you could do
anything with one system (without a loop) that you could do in the
other, and that that was Leigh's main point: basic philosophical
differences that nevertheless allow a one-to-one mapping aren't really
as significant as they seem.

While jihad may be fun for many, it's produced a stalemate for APL for
the last 10 years or so.

-- 
Sam Sirlin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory         sam@kalessin.jpl.nasa.gov
From: mattheys@sol.crd.ge.com (robert m mattheyses)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Availability for Sparcs and Macs
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:22:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: crd.1992Oct5.192207.3958
Reply-To: mattheyses@crd.ge.com
Followup-To: comp.lang.apl
Organization: GE Research & Development







ected ar


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t a sing
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Mike Kent <70530.1226@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Boxed/nested comparison
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:16:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.192450.3393@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (P A Viton) asks:

>  Does anyone know of a discussion in which Sharp's implementation of
>  nested arrays ... is compared to the implementations of IBM ...
>  or STSC?  

I have not found any direct comparisons, but:

	"Why APL2: a Discussion of Design Principles", James A. Brown,
	APL87 Proceedings     discusses some of the design decisions
	made in implementing APL2 and why certain choices were made.
        In particular, it discusses why the enclose of a simple scalar
        gives the simple scalar.

        Phil Benkard's APL 84 article"Ranks vs Depth for Array
        Partitioning" discusses one of the basic differences in 
        approach.  In the same proceedings, Jim Brown's article
        "Function Assignment and Arrays of Functions" and the Bunda
         and Gerth article "APL Two by Two -- Syntas Analysis by
         Pairwise Reduction" touch on issues of strands and of
         approaches to syntax analysis.

	There was also a nice piece "An Introduction to Function 
	Rank" frome the other camp via Bob Bernecky in one of the
	recent conference proceedings (perhaps the author can give 
	a more exact citation?).

	And of course there are the "Dictionary of APL" (Iverson)
        for Sharp and the "APL2 Programming:  Language Reference"
	which are fairly definitive on the two sides.
	

Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From:         dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gillett, David)
Subject:      Smillie "Statistics and J"
Reply-To:     dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM (Gillett, David)
Organization: Reuters Information Services (Canada)
Date:         30 Sep 92 15:00:05 UT


-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------


no. 6616026 filed 14.32.48  wed 30 sep 1992
from dgil
to   uclapl
subj Smillie "Statistics and J"
ref  6615447

     I believe this is the same Prof. Smillie whose "APL\360 With Statistical
Examples" was such a useful supplementary text when grappling with a statistics
course in years gone by....
                                      Dave Gillett


-----------------------------------------------------------
This posting is forwarded from an internal Reuters mailbox.
No statement or opinion contained herein should be taken as
being Reuters policy, or even as being approved by Reuters,
in any way.
From: pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (P A Viton)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: Sharp APL
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:24:50 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


Does anyone know of a discussion in which  Sharp's implementation of
nested arrays (called "boxed" arrays, I think) is compared to
the implementations of IBM (APL2) or STSC (APL*PLUS II)?

Thanks for any help!
-- 
-----------
Phil Viton
PViton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: hui@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Roger Hui)
Subject: Re: workspace operations in J
Organization: Iverson Software Inc.
Distribution: comp
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 05:27:02 GMT

Eythan Weg writes:
 
> I have encountered this riddle re J5.1 on rs6000.  I have a saved
> worked space named X. Upon entering J without profile.js I do
> 2!:1<'X' and obtain a list of objects in the ws.  Then I do 2!:4<'X'
> with a response of 1 and then 4!:1 >:i.5. Comparing the two lists I
> find that at least one noun y (relatively large) is missing in from
> the 4!: list. Then I do 'y'(2!:4)&< 'X' and it is in.  

This looks like a bug, and I have reason to believe that it is not
specific to the RS6000.  I'll investigate.

> This occurred after on an unclear, but still rather small and not 
> unduly used workspace, I tried to load X with  `full ws' as a response.
> Incidentally, X is about 50K.  Any comments?  Eythan

It would surprise me to get "ws full" on the RS6000 on anything reasonable.  
Please provide more details.

------------------------------------
Roger Hui, Iverson Software Inc., 33 Major Street, Toronto, Ontario  M5S 2K9
Phone: (416) 925 6096;  Fax: (416) 488 7559
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Mike Kent <70530.1226@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Storage class integration
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:43:38 GMT

In article <ROCKWELL.92Sep301992223@socrates.umd.edu>,
Rockwell@socrates.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell) suggests that
more transparent storage class integration would be a boon to programmers.

This is of course true.

What's more, IBM's mainframe APL2 provides such a facility (for almost-
transparent access to disk file storage) via an associated processor.
Name association to a file establishes the file as a vector in the
workspace (without actually moving data into main memory until it is
referenced), each record in the file being one item of the vector.
There may be some restrictions on the types of files which work.
Indexing and index specification are supported, as are catenation 
and drop (among the structural functions), and if the file consists of
e.g. 1000 25-by-12 numeric matrices, the sum of the matrices can be
constructed by +/ followed by disclose (just asif it were a "real"
array).  I don't know just what operations will cause very large objects
to materialize in the workspace, but there are some.  Perhaps someone from
IBM could post a more complete description, with appropriate caveats?

Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: ljdickey@math.uwaterloo.ca (L.J. Dickey)
Subject: Re: Stat workspaces for APL/J wanted
Keywords: apl statistics j Smillie workspace
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:26:40 GMT

Earlier, I wrote:

>Here are some elementary functions written by Keith Smillie,
>Professor Emeritus of Computing Science at the University of Alberta.
>These functions appear in a forthcoming article called
>"Statistics and J" which goes much beyond the functions given here.

The full text of Professor Smillie's paper is now on-line on

	Server:	Watserv1.UWaterloo.CA 
	File: 	languages/apl/j/workspaces/statistics_and_j.zoo
	File: 	languages/apl/j/workspaces/statistics_and_j.tar.Z

In addition to the text of the paper, there is a separate file
containing just the J functions and data (verbs and nouns) 
that may be used as a J script.

-- 
Prof. Leroy J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada  N2L 3G1
   Internet:      ljdickey@math.UWaterloo.ca
                  ljdickey@math.waterloo.edu
   UUCP:          ljdickey@watmath.UUCP
From: 70530.1226@CompuServe.COM (Mike Kent)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
Subject: IBM POSTSCRIPT APL font
Date: 28 Sep 92 03:43:30 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <Bv97ww.G6A@phage.cshl.org>, wchang@phage.schl.org (William
Chang) writes

> As far as I know IBM doesn't distribute a Postscript APL font.

Actually, they do, as part of the OS/2 Extended Services communications
software (the 3270 emulation stuff, I think).  Make a call to the hotline
and see if you can get a copy; I suspect they'll be happy to accomodate
you.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Subject: Introduction to Function Rank
Reply-To: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Organization: Snake Island Research Inc, Toronto
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 16:50:25 GMT

In article <920930041647_70530.1226_CHC95-1@CompuServe.COM> Mike Kent <70530.1226@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.192450.3393@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (P A Viton) asks:
>
>>  Does anyone know of a discussion in which Sharp's implementation of
>>  nested arrays ... is compared to the implementations of IBM ...
>>  or STSC?  
>
>	There was also a nice piece "An Introduction to Function 
>	Rank" frome the other camp via Bob Bernecky in one of the
>	recent conference proceedings (perhaps the author can give 
>	a more exact citation?).

I guess that's me. Try the APL88 Conference Proceedings, ACM SIGAPL Quote
Quad, Vol 18, No 2, December 1987.

Bob



Robert Bernecky      rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.com  bernecky@itrchq.itrc.on.ca 
Snake Island Research Inc  (416) 368-6944   FAX: (416) 360-4694 
18 Fifth Street, Ward's Island
Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9 
Canada
Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: Berni@wiwipc18.uni-bielefeld.de (BernhardStrohmeier)
Subject: "Grenander" APL-Workspace wanted
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:28:08 GMT
Organization: Fakultaet fuer Wirtschaftswissenschaften, Uni Bielefeld, Germany


Hello,

I am looking for an APL/J-Workspace which contains the functions from the
book by Ulf Grenander: "Mathematical Experiments on the Computer". 

Can someone help me?

Thanks,

Bernhard Strohmeier

Newsgroups: comp.lang.apl
From: byteshif@cs.tu-berlin.de (the byteshifter)
Subject:  WANTED: APL2 for a 8086/cga
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:24:32 GMT


I'm looking for apl2 , config: PC XT, CGA.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

		THE BYTESHIFTER - son of a bitmap and a joystick

			byteshif@cs.tu.berlin.de

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups:   comp.lang.apl