HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord@igc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:20 PDT
Subject: GL: Cyprus - Anniversary
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1473100058:000:2693
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hrcoord    Jul 21 09:20:00 1992


From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord>
Subject: GL: Cyprus - Anniversary

/* Written  7:14 pm  Jul 21, 1992 by peg:greenleft in cdp:greenleft.news */
Anniversary of invasion of Cyprus

By Michael Karadjis

July 15 was the 18th anniversary of the NATO-organised 
destruction of Cyprus, in a joint action by the then military 
junta of Greece and the Turkish regime.

Following a struggle against British colonial rule in the 1950s, 
Cyprus gained independence in 1960.

The attempt by the Cypriot regime of Archbishop Makarios to 
maintain a neutralist position and reject incorporation into NATO 
led to the open hostility of the US government, which declared 
Makarios (an Orthodox archbishop) to be the ``Castro of the 
Mediterranean''!

Washington used its surrogate regimes in Greece and Turkey to 
encourage extreme nationalists among Greek and Turkish Cypriots 
and to sow clashes between the two communities, undermine the 
Cypriot government and pave the way for ``double enosis'' - the 
forced division of the island between the two ``mother 
countries''.

On July 15, 1974, the Greek junta carried out a coup in Cyprus, 
bringing to power extreme nationalist forces who wanted union 
with Greece. Claiming to want to defend the Turkish Cypriots, 
Turkey responded with a massive invasion of the island.

While this is often viewed as a Greek-Turkish war, in fact not a 
shot was fired between the two powers. Both governments have 
largely covered up their then quite public alliance and their 
open encouragement by the US, in trying to destroy the Makarios 
regime. They used extreme nationalist rhetoric to get their local 
clients to clear their respective areas of the opposing 
community.

However, the Cypriot junta fell five days later, and the Greek 
junta itself the following day. But instead of withdrawing its 
troops, Turkey intensified its invasion, occupying 38% of Cyprus 
(Turkish Cypriots are 18% of the population) and driving two-
fifths of the Greek Cypriot population, 200,000 people, from 
their homes.

Since then, Turkey has maintained an occupation force of 35,000 
troops, and has brought in about 80,000 Turkish (non-Cypriot) 
colonists to take over occupied homes and property. In the same 
period, the Turkish Cypriot population has declined to 90,000. 
Hence the Turkish Cypriots are unable to change the rightist 
regime, which opposes all attempts to find a solution.

While the US justified the slaughter in the Gulf on the basis of 
``not rewarding aggression'' in the case of the Iraqi occupation 
of Kuwait, Turkey has been rewarded with untold billions in US 
and NATO military and economic aid for the service it performed 
on their behalf.
From: u2112539@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Library of Congress and Macedonia(n)
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:01:43 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

> 
> Well, what do you think? If Greece behaves like a five-year old child
> and uses its veto position in the EC to block that, accompanioned by 
> all sorts of lies about currency, airports etc, starts consumer boy-
> cotts against other EC countries, do you think that we should say "what 
> a nice little country you are, little Greece"? If you haven't grasped
> it: we are not talking for recognition because we are hostile against
> Greece, but Greece stupid behaviour has been very menacing to our opinion 
> on Greece.

	Either you like it or not this is the price Skopjia will have to pay
if it insists on using Makedonia as a name. Look what happened in the
parlament. The Albaniens disagreed with the naming of the state as well as the
symbols they want to use for their flag. There will be internal conflict as
long as they dont follow a reasnable path. Now all that about money and
airports might not be true but can you explain to me why do they want to
include the star of the ancient king of the Makedons as their national symbol ?
Why do they want to put it on their flag ? We at least settled the fact that the
Kings of ancient Makedonia were Greek (Let alone I have no doubt that the rest
were also Greek) This symbol was unearthed via the excavations in Vergina much
later than WWII. If they wish to survive in this world they definately could
use the friendship of Greece. The hand has been stretched ... mey they make the
disision now that will forever affect both sides and their relations.
	George



> -- 
> Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
> Dabras Laiks!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: tsioutsias-dimitris@CS.YALE.EDU (Dimitris Tsioutsias)
Subject: Today's Greeks and Ancient ones
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:34:18 GMT

For all those making thoughtfull reasonings and concluding to the
irrelevance between ancient greeks and modern ones, a very simple
and revealing test is to simply look at the characteristics
of the race throughout the pass of the centuries. You'll find the
SAME positive and creative elements that lead then to the golden century
("xrysous aiwn") of Perikles and today to the successful greeks all over
the world, and at the same time ALL the negative ones (as the impatience,
the tendency for leaving everything to the very last moment, the 
dispute between policticians during critical ethnic moments, etc.)

If that's not a proof to the continuity of a nation throughout history,
I don't know what else can it be.


->d.
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: ... and my office phone number is (708) 979 66 84, 'Gav*0'..
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:21:03 GMT


     You can try this phone number too, 'Gav*0'. I may be busy but I will be 
glad to answer all your questions..

(Needless to say,the same holds for everybody out there,for 'Tri*', 'Zap*' and
'Cro*'. )
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Library of Congress and Macedonia(n)
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:03:38 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

Panos Tamamidis  (ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:
>The fact of the matter is that your postings show nothing else than
>lack of cooperation and of understanding of this issue. Which means,
>that you don't care about the prosperity of your new republic.

Macedonia would benefit a lot if it achieved international recognition.

>Thus, you, as well as Som*, post continuously articles like "I saw the name
>Macedonia in this article", or, "Freedom fragile in Macedonia", or
>"EC blackmailed by Greece", e.t.c.

And? There are quite some Greeks, including you, who post a lot of
misinformation. Concluding from a e-mail discussion I had with
Panos Tamamidis it seems that he does not think that correctness of
facts is a virtue. At least when his side present in the incorrectness.
However this is an opinion I don't share, and furthermore I tend to
correct inaccuracies when I see them.

In this particular case it, it has been initimated here that since
the EC summit in Lisbon said no Macedonia with that name, that the
name would not be used anymore, and neither "Macedonian" for their
language. But as you see a institution like the Library of Congress,
which sounds quite respectable to me, does not agree.

>In the contrary, your postings clearly
>show your hostile attitude against Greece (and the same applies to the
>other guys who make the contributions ..., to Som*, Turner e.t.c.).

Well, what do you think? If Greece behaves like a five-year old child
and uses its veto position in the EC to block that, accompanioned by 
all sorts of lies about currency, airports etc, starts consumer boy-
cotts against other EC countries, do you think that we should say "what 
a nice little country you are, little Greece"? If you haven't grasped
it: we are not talking for recognition because we are hostile against
Greece, but Greece stupid behaviour has been very menacing to our opinion 
on Greece.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Dabras Laiks!
From: PASJORDANRA@CRF.CUIS.EDU (Richard Jordan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-GREEK
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:14:06 GMT
Organization: Concordia University Information Systems, River Forest, Il.

SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-GREEK Richard Jordan
From: STOKAS@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (STREET CLUB DANCES THE WORLD FROM XANIA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: turkish propaganda--mutlu
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:26:00 GMT

I am writing for the first time to s.c.g. but I am looking the mail through the
newsgroups for at least one month.

I see that there is a guy called himself Hasan Mutlu who literally has the
monopoly of the postings in the s.c.g.

I am wondering when he finds the time to read and type all this information
about the "Turkish genocoide by the Armenians".

Since it is almost impossible for a person to type that vast amount of info I
can easily assume that either there are many persons working on this task or
this is his job. Which means that he is working for the Turkish goverment. I
also know that some of the books that he has mentioned as proof of his
arguments ape non-existing.

Thus, I think that you are a terrible laiar mister Hasan Mutlu or whoever you
are and you are probably only a node of the Turkish propaganda in the U.S.
People who care about these thinks know that the Turkish goverment spends at
least $4,000,000/year only in salaries to ex-generals in order to provide 
positive exposure for your goverment.

Andrew Stokas
University of Arizona
From: tsatsaro@emily3.Berkeley.EDU (Konstantinos Tsatsaronis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: 'Tsa*'s Devotion To 'Library' Is Worshipful: The Turkish Genocide.
Date: 29 Jul 1992 06:06:20 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: emily3.berkeley.edu
Summary: Mutlu in the Olympics

Just in case that you don't believe me I submit the following from the 
S.F. Chronicle scoreboard:

Weightlifting , 57 Kg :
Snatch: 1.
	2.
	....
	5. H. Mutlu , Turkey 112.5 Kg

Clean and JERK : 1.
		 2.
		 ....
		 5. H. Mutlu, Turkey 135 Kg

Combined  : 1.
	    2.
	    ....
	    5. H. Mutlu, Turkey  247.5 Kg

As you can see our heroe is multitalented!!!!!! 

By the way, the title is His reply to my complains that the NBC coverage
sucks big time!  If someone can make some sense out of all this is kindly
requested to share the wisdom withthe rest.

Costas Tsatsaronis 
Overwhelmed and overjoyed from the touch of The Great One.

I AM NOT WORTHY, I AM NOT WORTHY
From: PFK@UMUC.BITNET (Pikaifhs Tsimpoukolaryggostras)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Test
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:54:05 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Pikaifornia.


 Test re, oxi tsimpouki !  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.history,soc.culture.europe
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:16:48 EDT
From: <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>  Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: How the Bulgarians became Macedonians


Andrej Brodnik  (abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu)  writes  in  posting
<BrJJ7H.2Cw@watdragon.waterloo.edu>:
>
> In article <92198.235752PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>, <PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>
> Andronikos Romanos writes:
>
>> In article  <BrCyoI.7Jx@watdragon.waterloo.edu>  abrodnik@watdragon.
>> waterloo.edu comments on the Ottoman Era (that lasted to our centu-
>> ry) referring to Vacalopoulos:
>>
>>> The presentation is done mostly from Greek's point of view, but he
>>> also extensively deals with other nations living in the area.  Not
>>> talking about the rest,   but focusing on Slavic population,  it's
>>> interresting that he explicitly mentions Serbs (having their south
>>> ernmost border almost on Mt.Olympus)
>>
>> Coming back to the Serbs:  Yes, it seems that some of them moved as
>> south as described above, but to the best of my knowledge they were
>> not any significant numbers  -even in Monastiri (Vitola)-  as, say,
>> the Greeks, the Muslims, and the Bulgarians...
>
> But still,  the Kraljevic Marko  had its kingdom completely south of
> Bitola (according to the above book).

This does not make it Serbian in the synthesis of population.. With the
exception of Stephen Dussan's ten year rule of Macedonia in the 1340's,
the states of Simeon Uress-Palaiologos,  that of Voulkasin  or John Ug-
less had Greek civic servants and soldiers/military.
As for the Dragashs that are considered Serbian heroes (OK)
I am pretty sure that the Greeks will recognize the  last Byzantine em-
peror Constantinos XIII Palaiologos-Draghashis!

Andy wrote (on the same book)
>>> Later, when he describes Bulgarians he writes: "This regular migra-
>>> tion of Bulgarians  [shepherd migration of nomades and seasonal la-
>>> bourers later] into Macedonia resulted in a fresh reinforcements of
>>> what was left of old Slav settlements. "Now who are these old Slavs
>>> which are not Serbs, but were reinforced by Bulgarians?
>>
>> Let me elaborate now on the Non-Serb Slavs,  but if memory serves me
>>  well the last time we discussed the issue... I convinced you.
>
> Yes,you did.But from the mentioned source I conclude that they repre-
> sented a very important society still in the beginning of 16th centu-
> ry. So my point is, that Bulgarization did not happen that early.

In this case we do not discuss the situation north of Ohrid but what is
clearly Trikala (Thessaly) or Seres well in modern Greece,but these are
not descendents of the Sklavenoi that settled south of Thessaloniki...
Anyway, this has  NOTHING  to do with lands of the ex-Yugoslav Republic
and the stock of Bulgarians & Serb-Albanians (these near Cossovo)  that
lived there.   Are we talking about the same thing?

> Best regards,  Andrej

Best Regards , Andronikos
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: 'Gav*0',I am looking forward to your visit at *Geneva St.8031,Woodridge
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:12:55 GMT

,IL,60516*

  You can call me whenever you want and talk to me about the (mostly)
psychological problems that seem to torture and lacerate your wretched soul.  
I know you need help, poor little Nick, you are just a big kid going through  
a phase of reinfantilescence, undergoing the consequences of a prolonged,
retarded Peter Pan syndrome. Don't hesitate to call me 'Gav*0', my friend ..
Yes, my friend .. I consider you my friend and I am willing to offer you all
the help you need so that you overcome the problems that haunt your thoughts.
   You can even come and visit me at my home in
  ________________________________________________
 |                                                |
 |  Geneva Street 8031, Woodridge,Illinois, 60516 |
 |________________________________________________|

   Many a time you in your articles you spoke of coming over to my place.
Why don't you do that ? Is it perhaps that you are inhibited ?
My door will be open for you, you won't have to batter it down, and
a cup of warm, coffein-free Turkish coffee will be awaiting you to cool  
your nerves down !

   I will be glad to offer you professional help.

PS : Needless to say, this offer applies to all psychopathic hate-the-Turk 
maniacs, from 'Tri*' , 'Cro*' and 'Zap*' to 'Sen-Berne', 'Hallam-ian' ,
'McCarthy','Sternlight'and all other registered and secret memebers of the 
ASALA/SDPA/RDA Terrorism Triangle.
   I will treat you all to a cup of turkish coffee first. B-)

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
From: UCNICK@UMUC.BITNET (Nick Gavrielatos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Karl Deninger you are only good for pipes!
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:10:52 GMT

Karl Deninger, instead of only remembering the ibm.watson
logo, why dont you also kiss my ass and blow me a pipe???

Who the hell you think you are Karlito-boy? You speak like
some kind of cardinal sent from the pope, and write like 
everything you say is or must become a law... 

Well, let me tell you... you are nothing but a janitor of the 
com business you are running, and apart from the super-discount
that you happen to be, you are a big vleto too!

If you want to post here, if you want to participate in this
or any group, try to understand that just because you are the
sissy-admin, sorry I mean the sysadmin, that doesnt mean that 
you can talk like you are the president and executive judge of
the supreme court. Your statements are no more important than
anyone elses... Comprende???

Ah, and about the comment you made that you are going to 
remember the ibm.watson site, try to remember also that 

"Its tough to be where elephants dance, if you are a little
grasshopper" !!!

Nick Gavrielatos
To Sixameno Plasma
UCNICK@UMUC.BITNET
From: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu
Subject: GL: Cyprus - Anniversary of Turkish Invasion
Originator: efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu
Organization: NU
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:04:05 GMT

From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord
Subject: GL: Cyprus - Anniversary

/* Written  7:14 pm  Jul 21, 1992 by peg:greenleft in cdp:greenleft.news */

Anniversary of invasion of Cyprus

By Michael Karadjis

July 15 was the 18th anniversary of the NATO-organised 
destruction of Cyprus, in a joint action by the then military 
junta of Greece and the Turkish regime.

Following a struggle against British colonial rule in the 1950s, 
Cyprus gained independence in 1960.

The attempt by the Cypriot regime of Archbishop Makarios to 
maintain a neutralist position and reject incorporation into NATO 
led to the open hostility of the US government, which declared 
Makarios (an Orthodox archbishop) to be the ``Castro of the 
Mediterranean''!

Washington used its surrogate regimes in Greece and Turkey to 
encourage extreme nationalists among Greek and Turkish Cypriots 
and to sow clashes between the two communities, undermine the 
Cypriot government and pave the way for ``double enosis'' - the 
forced division of the island between the two ``mother 
countries''.

On July 15, 1974, the Greek junta carried out a coup in Cyprus, 
bringing to power extreme nationalist forces who wanted union 
with Greece. Claiming to want to defend the Turkish Cypriots, 
Turkey responded with a massive invasion of the island.

While this is often viewed as a Greek-Turkish war, in fact not a 
shot was fired between the two powers. Both governments have 
largely covered up their then quite public alliance and their 
open encouragement by the US, in trying to destroy the Makarios 
regime. They used extreme nationalist rhetoric to get their local 
clients to clear their respective areas of the opposing 
community.

However, the Cypriot junta fell five days later, and the Greek 
junta itself the following day. But instead of withdrawing its 
troops, Turkey intensified its invasion, occupying 38% of Cyprus 
(Turkish Cypriots are 18% of the population) and driving two-
fifths of the Greek Cypriot population, 200,000 people, from 
their homes.

Since then, Turkey has maintained an occupation force of 35,000 
troops, and has brought in about 80,000 Turkish (non-Cypriot) 
colonists to take over occupied homes and property. In the same 
period, the Turkish Cypriot population has declined to 90,000. 
Hence the Turkish Cypriots are unable to change the rightist 
regime, which opposes all attempts to find a solution.

While the US justified the slaughter in the Gulf on the basis of 
``not rewarding aggression'' in the case of the Iraqi occupation 
of Kuwait, Turkey has been rewarded with untold billions in US 
and NATO military and economic aid for the service it performed 
on their behalf.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara")
Subject: Re: ENVIRONMENT: Greeks buying ''cleane
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:44:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.034925.15224@trl.oz.au> j.briganti@trl.oz.au (Joe Briganti) writes:
>In article <1473100057@igc.org> Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord@igc.org> writes:
>>
>>From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord>
>>Subject: ENVIRONMENT: Greeks buying ''cleane
>>
>>government order, a spokesperson for the greek federation of
>>industrialists (feb) says that industry now has a relatively clean
>>slate.
>> .....pie in sky syuff deleted....
>>emissions will fall by 30 percent by 1995 and be virtually non-
>>existent by the year 2000. (end/ips/en-np/cr/cpg/92)
>>
>
>Just a few points:
[text deleted]
>
>Speaking with cousins of my wife they also told me of this rebate ( I think
>it 20,000,000 drachmas (or about AUS$6000) to trade in your old car for a
>new one. My wifes uncle wasn't interested. His 25 year old Renault is
>still running fine (although I wont quickly forget our 3 hour drive from
>Athens to Loutraki (just out of Corinthos) on what I think was 1 (2 at most
>cylinders) (it only takes about an hour and luckily its downhill, that
>helped!) But hell, the car still goes right? This seemed to me endemic of
>most Greeks. Run your machine to the ground (or your boat or ferry) before
>you worry about getting a new one. I wonder how many others are like him.:-)

I had heard that trading your `dirty' car for a `clean' one
would give you 500,000 drachmas ~ 2700 US $. (20m is excessive.)
For some very old cars, this was not a bad deal, but still
1) the people love their cars, 2) they have to find the rest
of the money to buy a new one (say for a small car 3m).
But, we also have to take in account that Greeks service their
cars more carefully than at least North Americans.
Also, thanks to the climate, cars do not suffer so much
from rust as (at least) in N. America. Australia is
possibly closer to Greece in climate than N. America or not?
[text deleted]
>
>Why is Thessanloniki less "smogged"? I would have thought that it was more
>industrialized than Athens.

I wouldn't say more industrialized, but certainly enough to get smogged.
But Thessaloniki has 2 features different than Athens.
1) Open valley/prairies from the north, where river Axios runs,
and where strong North winds are coming (known as Borias).
2) A direct seashore. Athens is not so close to the sea.
Thessaloniki, having the sea from the south, has a free space
to let the smog go.

>--
>Joe Briganti ( j.briganti@trl.oz.au )
>X400: g=joe s=briganti ou=trl o=telecom prmd=telecom006 admd=telememo c=au

C. Christara
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