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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:39:20 PST
From:         "Jim Johnson 7-9535 (6518 TS/EN)" <jjohnson@EDWARDS-SCY.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Planer Questions
              Jan 26, 93 12:18 am

      I have the Makita planer and I absolutely love it.  The moving table
      has not yet been a problem with lumber up to 8 feet.  This is with 3/4
      lumber however and i'm sure that 8/4 oak without extra support would
      be a mistake.  It all boils down to how a tool is used which is why
      some people like and some dislike the very same tool.  It was $445
      which is kind of high but it got the highest review in a planer
      comparison some time back.

      James Johnson
      Standard Disclaimer
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: krw@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (keith.r.smith)
Subject: decline bench design
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:17:29 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: ergonomics weight-training


I am disappointed with the design of the decline benches that I have
seen on the market. The ones that I have seen are all designed such
that everything from the knees up is on the same (inclined) plane,
and the calves and feet hang over (with or without footrests).
How can one really feel secure, much less "dig in", on a set-up
like this?  I think that a much better design would be one such that
the entire torso and feet are all on the same (inclined) plane, but
your knees are bent, and your thighs are braced against a more-or-less
vertical board. I have jerry-rigged just such a mod to my incline/decline
ab board, using a section of rope and a shop-made toe-raise board.
It is quite comfortable and secure, though it is a little tricky to get
oneself into position, initially. As I am sort of an amateur "wood butcher",
I am considering building my own more permanent/elegant set-up. Before
I do this, I would like to know if anybody, anywhere, has seen a decline
bench that allows you to position/brace yourself as I have described.
If such a design already exists on the market, and if the quality seems
good, and if the price is within reason (like $125-$150) I may buy, rather
than build. Does anybody know of such?

Keith R
P.S. I would also like to hear from other folx who have built some of
their own fitness equipment. What did you build? Why did you build it?
What improvements would you make on the next one?
From: billy@hpcvcee.cv.hp.com (Bill Young)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: ROUTER TABLES
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:15:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1993Jan27.161559.14666
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

pileiro@SATURN.GLASSBORO.EDU writes:

:         I am presently considering building a router table for my small shop.
: I will be using it for general routing and shaping as well as raised panels for
: cabinet work.  Has anybody had good results with any particular make or model
: of router.  I want one that it variable speed and of course can handle some
: heavy duty use.

My only piece of advice is to avoid plunge routers.  I am using a large
Porter Cable plunge router (3.25HP, variable speed, 1/2" collet) as both my 
freehand and table mounted router.  It works great freehand, but fine tuning 
bit height while table mounted is even more of a pain than I thought it 
would be.  I needed the plunge action for other things, but it sure wasn't
designed for table-mounted operation (i.e.  gravity works the wrong way).  If 
money allowed, I'd have a dedicated router for my table.  I have been real
happy with the Porter-Cable router in all other respects, though.

BTW.  I built a router table from a plan in WOOD Magazine (of all things!),
      circa 1988-1990.  The things I like about it are:

       1)  It's got a larger work surface than other plans (i.e. Woodsmith)
           that I've seen.  

       2)  It's provides efficient dust removal (providing you've got a
           vacuum system of some sort).
      
--

Bill Young
Hewlett-Packard Corp.
Corvallis, Oregon
EMail:  billy@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: hethmon@hydra2a.cs.utk.edu (PAUL HETHMON)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Table Saw Experiences
Date: 26 Jan 1993 14:26:49 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hethmon@hydra2a.cs.utk.edu (PAUL HETHMON)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra2a.cs.utk.edu

  [ much deleted ]

|> 
|> The extension cord wire sounds inexpensive and may be the best answer,
|> but DELTA has come up with a solution, also!  I think it is new, at least
|> I had not seen it before in DELTA's catalog, etc.
|> 
|> DELTA has come up with a solution to the switch, a solution to their
|> safety guard, and several other solutions.  The brochure I saw shows
|> that they are now producing a safety guard which is attached to the right
|> side of the table (assuming that you are facing the saw).  This safety
|> guard is a tubular affair which extends up in the air and across the
|> table to reach and cover the blade.  It is advertised to be used with
|> the dado and other blades without having to be removed.  It has anti-kick
|> back devices which if they must be removed may be stored in the "arm" which
|> reaches across the table from right to center.  The "arm" has a place for
|> a lamp attachment and last but not least...the arm has the switch in 
|> it!  So, the switch ends up like the above "extension cord" apparatus....
|> except it appears to be much more stable.  
|> 
|> The price was not quoted, but it seems to be the answer to the safety
|> guard, switch, etc.  It was shown on several of DELTA's saws including
|> the Contractor's Saw, the Unisaw, and others.
|> 
|> They didn't say what one should do with the original safety guard which
|> comes with most brands of saws including DELTA, Powermatic, etc.  BUT,
|> I would like to suggest what they might do with it! <grin>
|> 
|> 

Do you have a model number or name for this item?

-- 
/* -------------------------------------------------------- */

   Paul Hethmon
   hethmon@cs.utk.edu
   615/974-6433

/* -------------------------------------------------------- */
From: alien@boi.hp.com (Tom von Alten)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Shopsmith Mark V
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:03:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: boi.C1H92A.Bty
Distribution: rec
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.7 PL6]

More clatter to the clamor, but I gotta get my $.02 in...

#Warning#:  consider that the "really neat demo" you saw is carefully
  rehearsed and packaged to impress, and then benefits from lots of practice
  by the huckster.  Your projects are not going to procede like Fred Astaire
  and Ginger Rogers dancing.

On the other hand, tool change-over isn't usually a big deal.  You do
  have to add "sequence planning" to avoid back-and-forth changes, but
  you should probably think through that anyway, right?

The table saw on the older models was truly inadequate for all but a narrow
  range of "not too accurate, not too big" jobs.  When they addressed many
  of their design's problems, they offered me an upgrade for about the cost
  of a real table saw.  I said no, thanks.  (Let's see... do I want to spend
  another 3 or $400 and still have a table saw that frustrates me?  Nah.)

  Tilting the table is occasionally an improvement.  Mostly, and especially
  for large work, it is between awkward and absurd.

  A jury-rig of extension tables, support rollers and what-not is a pretty
  weak fix to a poor design.  Again, sometimes it's better, mostly it's not.

If you're space constrained, and don't need a really good table saw, it
could be a good solution.  Just don't forget to discount the hype
generously, as much of the base functionality will rarely be used, and most
of the add-on functionality is overpriced for what you get.
_____________
Tom von Alten           email: alien@boi.hp.com
                        Hewlett-Packard Disk Memory Division
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:47:37 EST
From:         ZGDSHSE <ZGDSHSE@SJUMUSIC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Outfeed Table Plans

Hi Mark -

An outfeed table is a project on my list (rather low priority, however)
of projects.  I am looking at the plans in Woodsmith.  Have you seen
them?  If you like, I'll dig out the issue and give you info on it.

Any further suggestions would be approeciated.  I too am hesitant on a
roll up cabinet.  I just don't have the room.

Gene Sampson
From: tomb@hplsla.hp.com (Tom Bruhns)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:56:13 GMT
Subject: Tool steel brad point drills? Where?
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

Can anyone recommend a brand or supplier of brad point drills made
of decent quality tool steel?  I'd like something that doesn't
loose its edge on the first buried woodscrew it hits; I'd guess
the way it's ground it might not do a good job cutting through
things like that, but on the other hand, having a bit ruined isn't
too nice.  If I have to, I'll just grind a good bit to a brad point,
but getting it right won't be easy with the tools I have.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Hey! Lets have a survey....
From: <RSASMC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:10:03 EST
 <1993Jan26.143645.15616@ra.msstate.edu><1993Jan26.181229.17035@linus.mitre.org>
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

    I'm currently more than half-way through building a mission sofa from
cherry. I'm still refining the design, which is the main reason this has
taken sooooo long (according to my wife, anyway). I've culled designs from
Stickley and Thos. Moser (and my wife even bought me Norm's mission sofa
plans). Now that I've decided on the width of the slats, I should be able
to knock this off in no time ( 8) ) !! I chuckle every time I think of Norm's
sofa with 5/4 thick slats....     My only problem is that my wife has decided
that a matching chair would be nice. Oh well, back to the planer....
From: gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:13:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Need dado insert for old Rockwell table saw
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:
>: In article <4890256@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com>, pauls@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Paul Stafford) writes:
>: >  I suppose you could make one, without too much trouble, by cutting the 
>: >  proper outline on a bandsaw, and then raising the dado up through it while
>: >  cutting. this has the advantage over store bought of having a perfectly
>: >  tight fit around the blade. Beisemyer makes blanks for several saw styles,
>: >  if you want a store-bought one.
>: 
>: That's not always feasbile.  On my father's Craftsman saw -- over 35
>: years old, and still purring -- the throat plate is (as I recall) 1/8"
>: steel.  That's very thin for a home-made wood version, especially since
>: most (all?) of the support is at the ends, not at the sides.
>
>It shouldn't really be a problem. There should be very little pressure on
>the plate. The only time I would expect a problem was if you were ripping
>very short pieces of stock - like maybe 6 inches long. Even then, if you
>set up hold-downs properly, there will not be enough pressure on the plate
>to cause any noticeable deflection.
>----------
 
   I have to disagree here.  

   If you want to use your dado head to cut finger joints, then this will
   be a BIG problem.  You see, as you push the work into the dado head, 
   it has a tendency to push the work into the throat plate, giving you
   different depths depending on how hard you hold the work with your
   hands, a VERY undesireable situation.  The only way to get even joints
   this way is to have an extremely stiff throat plate.   

   I made a lot of finger joints on my Delta Contractor's saw, and I
   used stiff plastic inserts sold by Woodworker's Supply, and they were
   way too flimsy.  I ended up throwing them away and buying the steel one
   made for my saw.  IT gave me good, even finger joints.
   
   Of course, you can cut your finger joints on the router instead, as many
   people will undoubtedly point out, but I prefer the speed and ease of
   a dado blade on my table saw.

   Note:  If this is as thick as the throat plate was, and it wasn't reinforced
          with any "webbing" at the bottom, I doubt it would ever have been
          very usable for this application.  Even 3/16" steel will flex 
          enough to give sloppy finger joints if it isn't reinforced 
          underneath.

   I guess this is just another reason why a saw is not a saw is not a saw,
   even if the motor runs good.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: mcovingt@aisun1.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Subject: Democrats; was: Re: Hey! Lets have a survey....
Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:39:08 GMT

In article <WOODWORK%93012423153038@IPFWVM.BITNET> Jim Morgan <JMORGAN@BROWNVM.BITNET> writes:

>     I have just finished (well, maybe I'll put on another coat of Watco in
>another week) a semi-elliptical pier table made of quarter-sawn sycamore which
>I bought in Illinois last summer and carted back to Rhode Island.  This table
>is similar to one built by Bill Clinton(!) featured in FWW a couple years ago,
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not Jimmy Carter?   Are *all* Democrat presidents noted woodworkers?




-- 
:-  Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu :    *****
:-  Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0358 :  *********
:-  The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349 :   *  *  *
:-  Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A.     amateur radio N4TMI :  ** *** **
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Turning Baseball Bats
Keywords: turning bats
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:47:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: nope

In article <1993Jan26.204716.6026@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> hope@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (edward m.hope) writes:
>I'm just starting to feel comfortable with my new lathe (It's a Craftsmen
>and I'm proud of it) and was thinking about turning same baseball bats
>for the local little league. 
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions on wood type, ash has been mentioned in
>my conversations but nobody seems to know for sure.

Ash has been the traditional wood for bats for a long time.
There may be some specifications that could be extracted from the
LL or AL or NL.

But if I were you, I'd stay away from that project, unless I had
a *lot* of insurance and a good lawyer;  I'm sure I wouldn't want
to be in your shoes when somebody's kid comes home with a piece of
a bat in his eye, and someone else notices it's your's instead of
a Louisville Slugger or an Adirondack...



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: talent@merak.chdasic.sps.mot.com (Steve Talent)
Subject: Re: Extension Table Laminate
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector, Arizona
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:02:28 GMT

In article <C16oGG.BGJ@acsu.buffalo.edu> kensmith@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ken Smith) writes:
>
>What's a good material to laminate on top of home-made table saw
>extension tables?  Norm used a white laminate on his rolling shop
>table that he said wood slides over easily (same stuff as on his
>commercial extension tables I assume...) but he never said what
>the material was.
>
>Thanks...
>

A co-worker told me he called Biesemeyer and found out they use a
laminate called NeverMar (or something like that). He also found
a local shop that would sell him this material (walk-in, cash only).

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Talent  (talent@chdasic.sps.mot.com)
Mesa, Arizona, USA (Phoenix Metro area)
N33d26'15";W111d48'45";382m elv.
From: gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:06:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Polycarbonate prices (was: Re: want to drill and thread holes)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:

I wrote:
>
>Paul>    DON'T buy it from catalogs like Woodworker's Supply.  They overcharge
>Paul>    outrageously for this stuff.   Example:  recently WS was selling 
>Paul>    approximately 10X10 Polycarbonate squares for $19.95.   Usually you
>Paul>    can pick up pieces like this out of the scrap bin at TAP Plasics and
>Paul>    pay $.50 a lb for it.   10X10" Polycarbonate at 3/8" thich would weigh
>Paul>    about 9 ounces...
>
>Well, maybe the TAP Plastics house is unusual.  We have a few here and
>I have been looking for 3/8" PolyCarbonate scraps on and off for
>about a year now, and no soap.  If you can find scraps, you are right,
>the prices are no comparison, but if you price polycarbonate, you will
>see that WS is right in line.  A 2'x4' sheet of 3/8" polycarbonate is
>$78.  That is 8 square feet for $9.75 per square foot.  You however
>were wrong about the size and price.  WS was selling nominal 12"x12"
>pieces (measure out at 11 7/8" square) for $14.95.  Given that they
>had to add labor for cutting it up, a 53% profit is about in line for
>normal mail order operations (or most stores for that matter).  The
>bottom line is that if you cannot find the scraps you are talking
>about, the least amount of money you can spend is $78 to buy more than
>you need.

    I will check the price, but I know for sure I bought a piece of
    3/8" thick 18X18"  polycarbonate from Tap plastics for a little
    under $20.00.   You certainly don't have to by a 2'X4' sheet, they
    will cut it to any size you want as long as it is square.  You can
    save money per foot by buying a whole sheet.

    There are also several TAP outlets here in the Bay area, and the
    scrap bins vary.  I have found 3/8 poly in faily decent sizes
    in the past, but of course, first come first served.

    I don't have my old WW supply catalog anymore, but it seems possible
    they have cut the price.
From: JROBERTS@UTDALLAS.BITNET (Jeff Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: wood CARVING
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:50:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: utdallas.93Jan26.155830cst.15633
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              25 Jan 1993 00:48:49 -0600 from <siewert@MATT.KSU.KSU.EDU>

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:48:49 -0600 Karl Siewert said:
>Hi, folx.  I'm a beginning whittler and woodcarver looking for some tips on
>making a mask out of redwood..........

 <text deleted>

I was paging through my *Woodcarvers* Supply catalog the other day and noticed
a book specifically written for carving wood masks, as I recall it was about
10 bucks.  I don't have my catalog here so I can't give you their number,
maybe somebody else has it handy.  Their tools are pricey but at least they
carry a wide variety of carving stuff.  I have never ordered from them..

Jeff Roberts JROBERTS@UTDALLA
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Cheapo router bit mishap
From: rcbi27@marshall.wvnet.edu (DBRUM)
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:40:40 -0500
Organization: Marshall University

In article <WOODWORK%93012210093827@IPFWVM.BITNET>, Bob Pelcovits <PH500000@BROWNVM.BITNET> writes:
> What brand of router bit were you using?

Sorry, I can't rmember the brand name, but it was one of those ordinary
Tiawan types that I couldn't have paid much for because I bought it on a
lark a few years ago and the described episode was about the first time
I ever used it.

--

"I laughed one time and they 
were one the phone to the Man."  --Cool Hand Luke
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Polycarbonate prices (was: Re: want to drill and thread holes)
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:01:25 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:10:42 GMT, gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz) said:

Paul> hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:

>Well, maybe the TAP Plastics house is unusual.  We have a few here and
>I have been looking for 3/8" PolyCarbonate scraps on and off for
>about a year now, and no soap.  If you can find scraps, you are right,
>the prices are no comparison, but if you price polycarbonate, you will
>see that WS is right in line.  A 2'x4' sheet of 3/8" polycarbonate is
>$78.  That is 8 square feet for $9.75 per square foot. 

Paul>    This is simply wrong, Dion.  Sorry.

Paul>    1.  I found 3/8 polycarbonate in the Mountain View TAP scrap
Paul> bin, yesterday.

Paul>    3.  You don't have to buy 2X4 sheets.

I guess where I went wrong is that I did not say "We have a few
plastics distributors here in San Diego",  instead, I said, "We have a
few here", and you took me to mean TAP, not generic.  Everything I
said is based on what is available in San Diego, and it is NOT wrong
for my locale.  Good to hear that you have it better up north.  I have
specifically been looking for 3/8" polycarbonate for almost a year and
it never turns up in the scrip bin, HERE.  And you can't buy less that
2x4 in 3/8 PC.  

Sorry if I confused people with my experience, but from this
discussion, people in other areas of the states should not take either
of our experiences for gospel, but should investigate thoroughly in
their area as to what is the norm.


-- 
Dion Hollenbeck                        Email: hollen@megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek.uucp!hollen
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Table Saw Experiences
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:44:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <4320147@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz) writes:
>   The magnetic switch is not the solution for your problem, Steve.
>   
>   You problem is the location of the switch, not the way it functions.
> 
>   You can reposition your switch on the contractor's saw much easier
>   and cheaper than buying a magnetic switch for ~$80.00.
> 
>   The magnetic switch has two momentary switches that trigger a 
>   magnetic relay.  The power flowing through the saw keeps the switch
>   open.   Any break in the circuit shuts off the saw AND the relay.
>   The break can come from the "momentary off" button on the switch,
>   or from unplugging the saw (or from a power failure, or overload
>   protection circuit, etc.).

I understand how it works.  My previous posting was a bit too brief; let
me explain a bit more.

I think I saw the idea in FWW, though it could have been elsewhere.  You
hang a board (say, 8x8, or whatever fits) in front of the magnetic switch,
with a cut-out in front of the ``ON'' button.  To turn the saw on, you
stick your finger through the hole, to reach the button.  But to turn it
off, just bang *anywhere* on the board.  The point is that turning off
the saw becomes a simple operation -- there's a large surface to aim for,
and a very non-critical direction vector.  I don't care where a toggle
switch is; it's a small target, and you have to press it in just the right
direction.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: gregt@hfglobe.intel.com (Greg Tollefson)
Subject: 9.6v vs 12v cordless drills
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:56:09 GMT




I am looking into cordless drills.  What is the performance gain by
going to the 12v cordless.  The cost adder is 20-30%.  Can both 
handle 3" drywall screws into 2x4's?  Any other WOW.

Greg T.


-- 
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking