Newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Words Feminists find Demeaning!
From: minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:53:00 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Jul30.063247.19824@ennews.eas.asu.edu> guncer@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Selim E. Guncer ) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul30.035909.26809@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul29.160237.5820@fmg.bt.co.uk> ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:
>> >In article <1992Jul28.081051.1618@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>> >
>> >> Let's see.... in the "fundamentalist" (whatever that word means) country 
>> >> of Iran, you won't find 1/3 of women being sexually assaulted, as is the 
>> >> case in the U.S.  
>> >
>> >How do _you_ know?  And why these millions of sexually assaulted women are not
>> >applying en masse for immigration to Iran (or other "Islamic" countries) in
>> >order to live in "safe" environments over there, I wonder.
>> >
>> >-hossein
>> 
>> hossein man, there is no logical connection between getting raped and going to
>> iran, so your point is rather moot (i know you were being sarcastic). but
>> hey what percentage of the women who get raped actually try do get justice?
>> an even more poignant question to ask would be what percentage of women change
A>> there lifestyle as a result of being raped? i am not talking about carrying
>> a mace can or anything like that i am talking taking real preventive measures
>
>Women have to change their lifestyle in order not to be raped?? Just what are 
>these "women" are you talking about? "Rape" is NOT the result of the woman's
>(or victim's) actions but of the rapist.
B>
>You are suggesting that a woman, because of her appearance or social 
>behaviour, invites the rapist.  A woman wearing a bikini or a black sheet,
>has the same probability of being raped if she happens to be at the wrong 
>place, wrong time.


Rape is a function of many factors, but you can not deny that sex, and the
desire for sex, along with viewing women as trash and only good for sex obects
is not a strong factor. Consider this, among college women 1/4 of them have
been the victim of date rape. Social behavior is less of a factor but it is
still a factor that is measurable. Factors you mention like location are also
important. However modest dressing is a mitigating factor in rape, to put it
in simpler terms the more available a woman looks the more likely a target for
sexual harrassment and even assault she will be, but I get your point, the 
rapist is the criminal at fault.

>
>> in order so that such a thing does not happen again? in iran and other muslim 
>> countries, there is no denying that rape occurs but there is no way that even
>> close to 1/3 of the women get raped, i would not even say 1/5 of them do, that
>> is because the cultures of the muslim coutnries (and many other asian and 
>> african non-muslim countries) have created a way of thinking that tries to
>> prevent the situation from happening in the first place.
>
>I strongly disagree with the above statement. There is no indication that
>the number of rapes in Muslim countries is substantially lower than
>the western counterparts. One should consider that the mentality
>of the rape victim being responsible (as seen above) is widespread and is 
>the leading cause why rapes are not reported to the police. One can routinely 
>encounter news where the father/husband of a female rape victim beats or
>murders his daughter/wife for bringing shame to his family.  However, this 
>is not solely a characteristic of Islamic societies, but of patriarchial 
>societies. The concept of "virginity" is so fanatically abused that
>the father is more interested in his daughter's vaginal tissue than
>her being beaten and raped (What a shame (!) for the father who can not
>hang the blood stained bedsheet of his daughter in the street, the morning 
>after her wedding.. ).

This is not Islamic behavior. This is behavior that came from pre-Islamic times
and has survived to become part of the culture of some (not many not most) 
Muslim countries. 
>
>Another point to think about is this. The object of rape is not in most
>cases sexual satisfaction, but humiliation of the woman. This is already 
>by far achieved in patriarchial systems so sick minds do not have to
>resort to abusing female physical weakness to satisy themselves (a plus
>for patriarchy in preventing rape :-)).


I would disagree here, though it is true that many rapists want to humiliate
the victim for one reason or another, you can not deny that the a large
minority, if not a majority of women are raped for sexual pleasure. I should
add that alcohol plays a strong role in both cases, but it is the general
view in most places that women are only good as sex objects and are not worth
much more than that. And as far as your asssessment of muslim societies being
good at humiliating women, I don't think that is the case unless you come from
a rural setting. In most urban areas I have seen women treated with respect
and not the disrespect that you seem to imply.


>
>Selim Guncer
>

zafar