HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wnljam01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: <None>
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:09:54 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Sep9.135222.202729@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, msncra01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Craig Mason0--Jones) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.131733.202726@uctvax.uct.ac.za>,
> wnljam01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>  [ various quotes removed - sorry, I _hate_ having to page through quotes ]
>> I don't believe there has ever been freedom of speech at certain university's
>> in S.A. - certainly not at U.C.T or Wits!  Last week SASCO made a mega-noise
>> because of an INKATHA speaker being invited onto the campus - they suggested
>> the trashing of the meeting!  Interesting parley for "freedom of speech"
>> advocates.  I wonder if the ANC and their puppets know what those words mean?!
> 
> But of course you overlook SASCO's first objection - that INKATHA has no idea
> what freedom of speech means. After all, SASCO is effectively banned on all
> KwaZulu campuses, is not allowed anywhere in KwaZulu. Don't try to whitewash
> Inkatha by criticising SASCO.
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Craig Mason-Jones, (MSNCRA01)
> University of Cape Town, RSA
> msncra01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Bisho: Eyewitness #3 - Esther Waugh (Argus Newspaper)
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:23:52 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

Eyewitness report #3:  Esther Waugh (Argus newspaper)

     The bullets  came without warning.  One moment National
Peace  Secretariat   chairman  Dr   Antonie  Gildenhuys  and
national peace  committee chairman  John Hall  were standing
next to  me with  our backs  towards the  Ciskeian soldiers,
waiting for  the ANC  leaders to  come up to the razor-wired
fence the soldiers had erected hours earlier.
     Suddenly the  shooting began - from soldiers facing the
Bisho stadium.   We  looked at each other and said they were
probably firing  blanks.   When we  realised  it  was  semi-
automatic rifle  fire, we  fell on  to the  road and crawled
into the veld next to the road.
     As I  looked over  my  shoulder  I  saw  ANC  secretary
general Cyril  Ramaphosa  and  ANC  sports  spokesman  Steve
Tswete crawling  into the  veld on  the opposite side of the
road.
     The shooting  had  spread  and  was  also  coming  from
soldiers a bare 50m in front of me.
     Facing the  Ciskei  Legislative  Assembly  building,  I
crawled further  into the  veld to a raised heap of sand.  I
lay there  as bullets  kicked up dust off it until the first
volley of shots stopped.
     It was  the first  time that  I thought  I had made it.
After a  brief respite  the shooting started again.  I could
see  a  Ciskei  soldier  being  carried  to  safety  by  his
colleagues and  to my  right I saw an ANC marshal rolling an
injured protester into the cover of a ditch.
     After the  firing stopped the second time Mr Hall and I
ran towards an armoured vehicle which was moving towards us.
Inside  were   Red  Cross  and  National  Peace  Secretariat
representative.
     A shell-shocked  numbness set  in.   People  stared  in
disbelief at  one another.   When  I looked  back  into  the
Ciskei, the  Ciskeian armoured vehicles had been removed and
the razor  wire flattened  in  parts.    About  50  Ciskeian
soldiers were  lying in  the grass  with their  guns pointed
towards the border.
                    
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:4744 sanet.talk.politics:1 apc.reg.safrica:1
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane)
Subject: UPI: Mandela notes disastrous reesults of action; wants to negotiate
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:27:08 GMT



	JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (UPI) -- In an interview with South
Africa's Star newspaper, African National Congress President Nelson
Mandela said Tuesday the ANC was eager to restart negotiations with the
government and wanted to make it as easy as possible for the government
to do so.
	Mandela was quoted as saying the government need not make any new
concessions to the ANC to get talks under way again.
	He said the government need only make good its previous undertaking
to the ANC and United Nations envoy Cyrus Vance on the issues of
security at workers' hostels, the release of political prisoners and the
carrying of dangerous weapons.
	Mandela said that along with the political crisis prompted by the
massacre in the nominally independent homeland of Ciskei last week,
which claimed the lives of 28 ANC supporters, he also was deeply
concerned about the state of the economy.
	He added that the country had also come very near to a disaster after
the massacre and that the negotiations deadlock had to be broken.
	If the talks went ahead, the moves made by President Frederik de
Klerk and himself could save the country from that disaster, the Star
quoted Mandela as saying.
From: mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Bisho: Eyewitness report #2 - Brendan Boyle (Sapa-Reuter)
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:20:35 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

Eyewitness report #2:  Brendan Boyle (Sapa-Reuter)

     There are  no tales of heroism.  Grey-haired priest Bob
Clarke clutched  a white  flag embossed with a dove of peace
as he  hugged the ground while automatic rifle fire crackled
endlessly overhead.
     Five metres  away three  journalists  squirmed  into  a
shallow ditch and listened to bullets thudding into the sand
at their heads.
     But no-one  braved the  bullets to help anyone else and
those that could flee fled.
     The shooting  started when  about  100  youths  led  by
Communist Party activist Ronnie Kasrils breached a corner of
the border  cordon and  ran towards  soldiers  prone  behind
automatic rifles.
     It quickly  spread until  troops were firing on a front
several hundred metres long.
     Some said  later the shooting continued for 10 minutes,
others said it lasted for two or three minutes.
     But when  the firing  eased Clarke, one of the monitors
sent to mediate between Gqozo's troops and the ANC marchers,
took his  flag and  scrambled onto  a heap  of  journalists,
soldiers and  monitors sprawled  in the  back of an armoured
truck retreating into Ciskei.
     It was  impossible at  first to tell whether the bodies
piled on  top of  one another  at the barricade were dead or
alive.
     When the  soldiers finally  stopped shooting  at anyone
who tried  to stand,  however, it seemed a miracle that only
28 people were dead and fewer that 200 of the 50000 marchers
were wounded.
     No  ambulances   came  to   help  the   injured,   some
frighteningly still and others writhing in pain.
     Instead private  cars came and went with wounded people
bundled into  open boots  and bleeding  limbs drooping  from
open doors.
                    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Bantustans (was Re: Campus Fascists)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:41:43 GMT

In <ccdw.716150427@kudu> ccdw@kudu.ru.ac.za (Dave Wilson) writes:

>In <1992Sep10.154229.2872@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:

>>The fact is that Transkei and Venda were set up and are ruled by minority
>>government inspired dictators as well.  The difference is that their
>>dictators are big chums with the ANC so there isn't this overwhelming
>>desire to use mass action to topple their particular "governments". 
> 
>Depends what you mean by "chums" - the difference is that ANC activity
>is permitted in their respective territories by Transkei and Venda,
>whereas they are "outlawed" in Ciskei.

So, how far are you going to get setting up a non-ANC aligned movement in
Venda or Transkei?  Surely democratic rights are democratic rights?  And
both the *keis stink in this regard?  So why pick on one and not the
other? 

My contention is that the ANC are doing just great if you happen to
support their world view.  If you don't, you're lumped in with the
so-called "enemy" irrespective of whether you're a PAC supporter or an
AWB supporter.  At least there are one or two parties around that still
believe in principles like freedom of speech and dissent.  Pity the ANC
(like the Nats, like Gqozo, like ...) isn't one of them.

I'd be a lot happier if the "party" that is quite possibly going to form
the next government in this country displayed something more than lip
service to the ideals of democracy.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Email for Zimbabwe?
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:35:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:keele.keele.ac.uk:4050:cdp:1471700119:000:37
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep 14 16:35:00 1992


Is there an email address for Yemen?
From: coenraad@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (Coenraad Scheepers)
Subject: Re: Killing (Masacre) in South-Africa
Followup-To: Ferdi Scheepers (ferdi@cgrg.ohio-state.edu)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:21:43 GMT

In article <GILFORD.92Sep8121848@lexus.vuse.vanderbilt.edu> gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Gilford T. Hapanyengwi) writes:
>I watched in shock at the pictures of the massacre in Ciskei (sp)
>yesterday.  I also was shocked by what I thought was a very cold and
>business like statement which "Mr." deKlerk issued after the massacre.

I saw the coverage by ABC and NBC news of this incident last night. The
reports by both networks showed Pres. De Klerk saying a single sentence -
it was obviously edited out from whatever response he had! I'm sure he also 
deplores the violence.

This is one of the problems I have with the news coverage by the major
news networks in this country. Only sensational, negative aspects are
considered newsworthy. Clever editing can portray a predetermined point of
view. As an example, ABC showed the Ciskeien troups lining up, then firing
on the marchers. NBC did not, they only showed the retreating marchers...
This in itself is not a big deal, but those troups were (as far as I could
see) mostly blacks. Not showing the troups lining up most certainly may
leave the uninformed viewer with the impression that the killing was done
by the white army.

I do not condone any of this violence; it really saddens me. 

>Peace,
>--
><><><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<>>
>Gilford T. Hapanyengwi       |YES, I am the snake eyed one
>(615) 322-3552               |-Nyasha Shasha
>gilford@vuse.vanderbilt.edu  |
>hapanyg@vuctrvax.bitnet      |
>

Peace to you, too.

Ferdi Scheepers
Graduate Student, CIS
The Ohio State University


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african
From: Michelle Landis <mlandis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: volunteer programs  
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:41:15 GMT

I'm posting this for a friend, but please reply to me and I'll
forward the information.
My friend is hoping to go to Africa next summer.  She is currently
a medical student and has a masters degree in Third World Development Studies.
She particularly wants to go to Uganda, but is willing to go just
about anywhere on the continent. She (and I) would greatly appreciate
any information about grant programs, volunteer organizations--
names and addresses basically-- of contact points for her to begin some
research on possible work projects/grants she might be eligible for.

Please mail any ideas you have to:

mlandis@ucs.indiana.edu

thank you in advance--
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Red Cross on Somalia needs
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:15:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700108:000:2812
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Sep  9 04:15:00 1992


From telephone discussion with International Committee for the Red Cross,
Sept. 8, 1992:

1.  The ICRC has estimated that 60,000 tons of food a month are needed
in Somalia.  Whether this total amount is being shipped is still not clear,
unfortunately.  What is clear is:
     there have been some improvements in some places--kids who were
starving are getting better
     unhappily, since the food is not yet reaching all the needy areas,
the poor starving Somalians in some areas, seeing the planes, walk long
distances for food, and in their weakened conditions, die by the roadside.{

2.  The food supply must keep coming.  The ICRC also needs *money* for
"logistics"--fuel for their trucks, and other requirements for transporting
and serving food.  This money can come from donor nations and from private
contributions.  Private contributions should say "Somali relief" on the
check and on the envelope.

3.  I asked if we should continue public pressure.  Answer:  "The
ICRC of course cannot ask anyone to do any lobbying.  But it wouldn't
hurt, now that Congress is back in session, for people to write the
Congressional Select Committees on Hunger" to keep Somalia in the
public eye and keep the relief projects funded.

4.  I asked about the famous media statement (found in almost every story
about Somalia) that "half the food sent is looted."  They said there
is no practical way to determine how much food is being looted. 

(In a September 4 article in the New York Times, the ICRC said that
much more than half its food {is getting through to the needy.  I mentioned
this to the spokesperson on the phone and he agreed.)  They are also
aware that media emphasis on looting discourages people from donating.

I'll try to get names, addresses, phones and faxes for the Select Committees
on Hunger and post them soon.{

Meantime, received a call from a lady in Wisconsin whose brother-in-law and
family are in a Somali refugee camp on the beach at Yemen.  She is trying
to get on Usenet so that she can post and join in our efforts.  She
has a lot of information and is facing huge difficulties trying to get
clothes to her relatives, for example (they say they will have no
clothes at all soon). 

I found that talking to her gave me new {resolve to keep on going, to try
to soften the effects of this tragedy to the greatest extent possible.

Meantime, some wonderful people on Internet and peacenet are going ahead
with their efforts to raise money.  Seth Grimes and Franca Brilliant
are reaching out to Jewish Congregations with an appeal, and Pete Newsome
of Purdue university is working on a fundraising campaign.  
NOTE:  I always forget this, but it's important.  Checks for the Int'l
Committee for the Red Cross should be made out to the American Red
Cross and earmarked for Somali relief.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane)
Subject: UPI: UN investigates toxic dumping in Somalia
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:56:19 GMT


	GENEVA (UPI) -- United Nations officials said Friday they are
investigating charges a warring faction in famine-wracked Somalia signed
a multi-million dollar contract with a Swiss company to allow dumping of
toxic waste there.
	Supporters of deposed President Siad Barre, now in exile in Nigeria,
gave the document to the U.N. and insist it is a genuine contract.
However the man whose signature appears on the contract, which has been
leaked to the press, says it is a forgery.
	Head of the U.N. Environment Program, Mostafa Tolba, has ordered an
investigation into the situation. Officials of UNEP's European office
said the security situation in Somalia makes a trip there for a spot
check practically impossible. Meanwhile, he said, efforts are underway
to check the veracity of the alleged contract.
	UNEP is the guardian of the 1979 convention on trans-boundary
movement of hazardous wastes, which specifically bars disposal of any
such wastes without the approval of the governments concerned.
	Switzerland is a party to the convention, while Somalia is not. A
spokesman for the Swiss government said that since there was no evidence
of anything untoward having happened involving the country, he would
have no comment.
	The leaked document, allegedly signed by Nur Elmy Osman, an adviser
to Ali Mahdi Mohamed, one of the warring Somali leaders, purports to
grant a Swiss company the right to transport toxic wastes to Somalia for
incineration.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: UPI: Ciskei troops kill fifteen as ANC marches on Ciskei capitalbot
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:53:23 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mbanane) writes:
: > Also, tonights CNN has a story of a reporter who found handguns on some of
: > those killed by the Ciskei soldiers, when surveying the aftermath.
: 
: According to local journalists, the ANC leaders prevented supporters who
: were armed from retaliating, in the interests of containing the bloodshed.
: One Ciskeian soldier was reported wounded, none of the (non-Gqozo) 
: reports suggested there was any attempt to attack the Ciskeian troops
: and if this had been the case, there would no doubt have been a few
: more injured or wounded on the soldier's side.

Now this is a new story. Suddenly they WERE armed, amd we were led to believe
that they weren't. Think I'll wait for Goldstone to investigate. Places
an entirely different complexion on the matter. As for the ANC telling
people not to fire, that means absolutley zit.
  
Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Bisho Massacre
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:49:56 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
> phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za (Justin Jonas) writes:
> : Gavan, is of course, an authority on the situation in Ciskei, living in
> : nearby Cape Town.  He presumably gets his account of the massacre from
> : the TV news, or perhaps he has a hotline to Gqozo himself.  I personally
> : know that Chris has spent a good deal of time in the Ciskei region and
> : is well aquainted with the situation there.  
> 
> Well, Cape Town isn't THAT far away. No, I'm no authority on the Cikei,
> but Brenner's stuff can be spotted a mile away, even from Cape Town. It
> contradicts all press reports, eg "no provocation", is tendentious and
> leaves half the story out. 

What a lie!  I have half a dozen eyewitness press reports that state 
exactly that the shooting was entirely unjustified.  Perhaps Gavan
should bear in mind that Mssrs John Hall and Antonie Gildenhuys of
the National Peace Accord had to take cover as they were also under
gunfire.

If anyone wants me to post the eyewitness reports, I can do so (given time).
They are fairly brief and to the point.

Mark Ramsden
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:4745 soc.culture.filipino:3292 soc.culture.taiwan:13275 soc.culture.hongkong:10707 soc.culture.indian:31034 soc.culture.vietnamese:13530
From: john@jho.com (John Ho)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.filipino,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: Re: [SOC] PETITION FOR LUYEN NGUYEN
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:04:39 GMT
Organization: Software Programming, Inc., Dallas, Texas USA

godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

>In article <20279@drutx.ATT.COM>, nguyen@drutx.ATT.COM (Christopher Chu)    writes...
>>Dear Netters,
>> 
>>During the last few days, I have been building a list of petitioners who
>>will share a petition letter against the beating death of Mr. Nguyen Phan
>>Nguyen. This petition is a follow-up of my original and individual protest
>>letter that was sent to 28 of U.S. officials last week. If you feel that
>>the petition that we plan to send should also go to other officials and
>>agencies, please provide me with names and addresses and I will send the
>>final version of the petition with a separate note to them.
>> 

>Whilst I'm sure your intentions are good, I don't understand the point in
>this petition.  Presumably the guilty party(ies) will be punished under
>US law - what possible difference would a petition make?  Do you believe
>that they will not be prosecuted?  Maybe I've missed something

> Laurence
Laurence,

	Unfortunately the Asian Americans has been treated unfairly 
by the US legal system.  As sad as I have to say, discrimination
and prejudice do and wildly exist and exhibit.  Racial discrimination
is not only between black and white; but it is between people of 
different colors.  Asian Americans needs to fight for what is taken 
for granted by most Americans - a fair legal system.  It was only ten years 
ago that a Chinese American Vincent Chan was killed in Detroit 
after mistaken as a Japanese by two unemployed auto workers, a father
and his step-son, and the criminals were able to walk out the court room 
with a four-years probation and $3000 fine each; only public outcry has 
forced federal action against the father and son later.  

	While I am at it and I might as well bring this out.  For all 
Asians who are planning on living in the US for the rest of our life, 
it is time for all of us to wake up and band togather.  Yes, there are 
"glass ceiling" out there, there are discrimination out there and there 
are bias and prejudice out there.  If we want to gain the respect, the 
opportunity and the right we entitle to, we have to make our voice heard.  
It took the Blacks and the Hispanics many years to gain the attention 
they deserve and it is time for all Asians to mobilize and fight for 
the freedom we entitle to.  It is not going to change in a short 
period of time but we have to start somewhere and somewhere is NOW.
-- 
John Ho from Dallas, Texas USA. (john@jho.com)           - No news is bad news.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Figures on Violence - Controversy Grows
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:25:58 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: > This isn't a question of NEUTRALITY (whatever that is) it's a question
: > of fact: is reporting by the HRC/CASE setup accurate or not, and whether
: > SAIRR criticism of that is justified or not.
: 
: The question of SAIRR's alleged neutrality is central to the debate here, 
: not least because SAIRR and Kane-Berman hide behind the notion of
: neutrality and objectivity.  Gavan's stressing of FACTS, FACTS is
: another attempt to claim objectivity.  (The point is that there are
: clearly different interpretations of the facts.)
: 
: I believe the the honourable Dr MG Buthelezi is a patron of the SAIRR.
: 
: Is this consistent with an organisation which claims the objectivity
: that the SAIRR does?  Given Buthelezi's recent embrace of Gqozo as
: a "comrade in arms" and his call to "bugger up" the ANC, will the
: SAIRR strip him of that "honour".

Good Lord, if this isn't a smear. Lots of people are SAIRR patrons and members.
Jay Naidoo has published through the SAIRR, Helen Suzman is current president,
etc. There is nothing in any of this, the SAIRR is not a COSATU surrogate and
so on.

If you wish to question the FACTS you must ADDRESS the facts - but that involves
rather a lot of reading. Moreover, you have to know a little about methodology
and be able to do comparisons with different figures on violence, cross
checking of sources and so on. That is how bias is demonstrated, not by silly
accusations and character assasinations that attempt to LINK the SAIRR with
people you don't approve of (always neglecting to mention all their other
linkages, eg to the Black Sash, the Trade Unions and hordes of members, the
people who ELECT the leadership). 

You haven't once MENTIONED SAIRR figures or more importantly, their analysis
of HRC/CASE/ICJ figures. That is what must be addressed. It would make
you much more interesting.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT