HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Astral Travel Guide
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:40:30 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <D7osRB1w165w@netlink.cts.com> jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) writes:
>peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:
>
>> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>> 
>> >Cord may be other color. You should *NEVER* cut it or 
>> >think about cutting it - it's your only guaranty to return to your body.
>> 
>> But now that you've said that, how can anyone possibly avoid thinking about
>> it?
>
>They can't.  The guy is a malignant asshole.

If they can't they should learn that and a lot of other things at first.
Though they always can (as you) chose to blame and flame others 
for their own failures -
definitely the simplest, most effective and positive way to OOB.

Btw, on your way home don't forget to give neighbour children matches
and a couple of dynamit sticks - and no warnings because you are not an asshole.

>--                    
>INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
>UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
>NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

Regards,
	-igor
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:122 alt.oobe:292
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:49:15 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <16871B6BF.S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>, S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU writes in part:
|> In article <1992Sep28.194359.14124@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
|> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
|>  
|> >
|> >In article <1992Sep20.204054.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca (Bill McKinnon) writes in aprt:
|> >|> *Pessimist Mode On*
|> >|>
|> >|> First, and most obvious to most who've done obe's, stay away from sources of
|> >|> electricity.  They do nasty things to you.
|> >
|>  
|> Robert McGrath asked:
|> >Huh?  Just what sort of nasty things do you claim might happen?
|> >How can electricity have any effect at all on you when you are OBE'ing?
|>  
|>    Have ever thought of material of the second body? If you look at
|>   cases of haunted houses-a lot of static ELECTRICITY was detected.Well,
|>   I can haunt a house myself :), but it is not fun anymore.
|> Anyway electric fieldsshould have some affect on your second body.
|>  
|> Jack.

I HAVE thought of the second body, but I was pretty sure that it is NOT
material OR electrical.  Assuming the second body actually exists
outside your own head (which has not been demonstrated) an electric
field should NOT have any effect.  How could it?  If the second body
is affected by electricity, then it would be effected by the electrical
properties of all ordinary matter, and would interact with them.

As to static ELECTRICITY in hounted houses, I simply note that there
is a lot of static electricity at non-haunted houses.  So what?

IMHO, this idea of yours is pure fantasy--OBE's have nothing to do
with electricity.

By the way, if you can haunt a house in a way that I can detect, I'd sure
like to see (or whatever) it.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Astral Travel Guide
From: S952092@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:05:39 GMT
Organization: UM ST. LOUIS

In article <peters.717368327@physics.ubc.ca>
peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:
 
>
>bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>>Cord may be other color. You should *NEVER* cut it or
>>think about cutting it - it's your only guaranty to return to your body.
>
>But now that you've said that, how can anyone possibly avoid thinking about
>it?
>
>Drin
>--
>-----------------
>Gutted - Flame NA
 
 
     I think that you can't possibly cut your astral cord, I am not trying
to kill myself, but in my recent experience-how hard I tryed, I could not
cut it! (even bend it).
 
 
       Jack.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com


In article <1992Sep22.191912.8834@eng.ufl.edu>, greg@irl.ise.ufl.edu
(Greg O'Rear) writes:
|> I've been curious about this subject, much as Susannah mentioned, I suppose.
|> I've had a friend or two tell me they could go OOB pretty much anytime they
|> wanted to.  So, naturally, I asked them to float on over and describe some-
|> thing I would arrange, but it never happened.
|> 
|> So, I'm wondering: for those of you who seem to have little or no trouble
|> going OOB, is there any way you would like to be put to the test?  Or maybe
|> you have already done so?  Do you have trouble reading words while
OOB?  Would
|> colors or shapes or pictures be better?  I'm willing to provide a place for
|> OOBers to visit, but maybe it would fail because none of you know me or my
|> surroundings....  Since I can't seem to do it myself, I'd like to see some
|> evidence second-hand.  Not because I'm James Randi, but I'm curious, and if
|> I can't do it myself, I'd like to participate in an experiment somehow.
|> 
|> So, go ahead, float on over to my office and describe the poster on my wall.
|> I don't want to sound antagonistic; I know some people get miffed when the
|> issue of proof comes up, so any offense taken is in the eye of the beholder.
|> 
|> What's a good way to experiment?
|> --
|> Greg O'Rear
|> Industrial and Systems Engineering, University of Florida
|> orear@ise.ufl.edu

	I managed to go oob for the first time on Saturday. Trouble was I
	couldn't leave my house. How am I supposed to get to Florida ??

	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 08:57:51 GMT
Subject: Test, Please Ignore. (Sorry)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com

Testing.
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
2345678901234567890
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:164 alt.oobe:319
From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:41:11 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Oct5.175958.14891@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes,
quoting me:
>|> I have proven to personal satisfaction that it is possible to use OOBEs to
>|> view areas of the planet that were previously unknown, in real-time. 
>Now THAT is something I'd like to see demonstrated to my own satisfaction.
>Any possiblility of a little demonstration?

Ahh. I truly wish that I could oblige you. My own abilities in OOBE are, to 
say the least, embryonic. If you email your address to me, I'll see what I
can do if I ever manage to get out properly, but I cannot promise anything
at all. I may just be able to persuade a friend to have a go...

Maybe someone else out there would be prepared to do a scry? 
If there is  a volunteer, we could do a double-blind...
email me, and I'll give any  targetting info I have, and forward any
results to Robert.

Any takers?!

Tim.

--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
    | ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk // perhaps via nsf.ac.uk if you get desperate..... |  
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: ae553@yfn.ysu.edu (David Jameson)
Subject: Re: Spiritual Guides and more
Reply-To: ae553@yfn.ysu.edu (David Jameson)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:40:28 GMT


In a previous article, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) says:

>The second body is a vibration that is at a higher level then electromagnetic
>vibrations. You will not be able to detect it with normal devices used to
>measure electromagnetic energy. You may be able to measure the effects of the
>second body on some materials like you can measure the effects of pyramid power.

There is _nothing_ higher than electromagnetic vibrations!  EM energy
can be produced (and measured) at any frequency from zero to infinity.
The higher the frequency, the easier it is to measure the em because
the individual photons will have more energy.

 [...]


>dano:
>

Dave.
-- 
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:144 alt.oobe:306
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:01:35 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <1992Oct2.183719.21580@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>, toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.211045.29302@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
|> >Huh?  How can the second body possibly be electromagnetic?  No test has
|> >EVER detected such a second body on ANY electromagnetic frequency.  
|> >Whatever the second body might be, it has been DECISIVELY shown NOT
|> >to be elctromagnetic.
|> 
|> I do not think that this is the case.
|> What you mean is, given the current state of our measuring tools,
|> it has not 'conclusively' (whatever that means) been detected.
|> 
|> What exactly IS your source for claiming that it has 'been DECISIVELY shown NOT
|> to be electromagnetic', while we're at it?

See, for intsance, Susan Blackmore, "Beyond the Body".  What I mean
is that our measuring tools are perfectly fine to detect a second
body if it was electromagnetic.  The evidence is clear--whatever the
"second body" might be, it is NOT electrical.

What is your evidence for your conviction that "this is not the case"?
Where in the EM spectrum do you think astral bodies might hide that
we can't detect them?

I phrased my statement provocatively to see who would put up evidence
to show me wrong.  So far, folks have objected and wanted to know
my sources, but noone has bothered to mention a counter example.

I stand ready to be shown to be wrong.  Please point me to evidence
(not opinion, hearsay, or theory) that the "second body" is or might be
electrical or magnetic.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
From: angelboy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (No One At The Bridge)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Question about Astral Objects
Summary: Has anyone else had this happen to them?
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:21:04 GMT
Distribution: alt.out-of-body
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


  	I have been OBE'ing for some 5 years now.  I'm glad to see this
network established, as my only other friend who also partakes in my
adventures lives 500 miles away.
	Anyway, I have a question about orbs of light.  On one occassion, I
was out of my body while I was sleeping over in a friends house.  His house
is quite old, and the land in which it sits on was a civil war battle ground.
	While I was out, I saw a pale pink orb of dim light floating around.  
It did not appear to be hostile, it justs floated around in random paths.
	I have never had another chance to OBE there at that site, nor does
the frined who lives there even believe in OBE'ing.  SO I would like to
know if anyone else has encountered such objects.  My hypothesis is that
it was some sort of psychic energy.
	Any ideas?

********************************************************************************* ALL FORMS OF E-MAIL ARE ENCOURAGED: angelboy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu            ** "I bring you Love to give you solace in the darkness of the night" - Rush    *********************************************************************************
From: toma@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tom Atwater)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Spiritual Guides and more
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:28:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Oct6.121020.1301@Princeton.EDU> bathurst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Bruce Bathurst) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.212047.1599@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>In article <1aq0r6INNi64@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes:
>>|> The second body is a vibration that is at a higher level then electromagnetic
>>|> vibrations. 
>>What is vibrating?  What "level" is EM vibrations at and what "level" is
>>the second body at?  In what sense is one "level" "higher" than another,
>>and how do you know?
>
>First I'd like to say that I'm not into this stuff; in fact, I'm an
>operationalist (science without metaphysics).
>
>Your questions, however, are inappropriately intellectual in a group that
>relies on experience and feeling.  The confusion exists because of their
>use of scientific vocabulary and extensive metaphysics.  (I guess one can
>call it that.)

I strongly disagree with this.

Up until now, science has not admitted that 'experience and feeling'
is a valid way to get information.
That is beginning to change, and this will accelerate, I believe.

Questions like those above are the way we find out things -- not by closing
our minds and saying things like 'I can't prove it in the lab, so
it can't be science' (and by inference has little value).

It is the very definition of science and the scientific method that
needs to change.

In the future, intellect *and* intuition ('feeling') will be more balanced,
in science as well as other facets of life experience -- and not unbalanced
toward the intellectual and 'rational' as it is now.

Whatever you think of my opinions or anyone else's, you have no right
to call discussions like the above 'inappropriate' for this newsgroup.
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:132 alt.oobe:300
From: ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Date: 1 Oct 92 10:49:50 GMT
Organization: The HRC

In article <1992Sep30.173416.21010@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes, quoting me:
>Very imaginative.  Of course this has nothing at all to do with the electrical
>properties of the computer, modem, telephone connetion.  Nice example of
>creative visualization, though.

I *did* say that it was far-fetched, and to a large extent, I would agree with
you. However, to play devil's advocate, I'll suggest that the imagery he saw 
could have been an overlay of the 'real' situation with image from his 
subconscious, in an attempt by the subconsciousness to make such an abstract
environment slightly more perceptible. That the subconscious is  always 
sticking its oar in is no revelation to anyone, I wouldn't think.

Anyway, it has no bearing on the real crux of my post, which was that the
second body is electromagnetic, and that I have never found electricity to
be problematic during OOBE, despite reasonable possibility of interference.

Of course, I've never dive-bombed power cables, or projected into a 
thunderstorm.

Tim.

--
                                  |   "Everything is true, even false things."
        *****     B3     *****    | "Even false things? How can that be??"
                                  |   "Dont ask me man, I didn't do it!"
    | ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk // perhaps via nsf.ac.uk if you get desperate..... |  
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: garyk@pdx.mentorg.com (Gary Kaminski)
Subject: Anyone else read Odysseys of Light?
Originator: garyk@garyk
Organization: mktg
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:52:46 GMT

I posted something a while back and it doesn't seem to be getting out
the door.  Just for kicks I will try another.

I read what I consider to be a good book by Marilynn Hughes on OOB.
(See Sebject line for title)  It not only talks about the attributes
of an OOB, but how our spiritual growth plays an important part in
how the experience manifests itself to out consciousness.
garyk
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
From: Matt Garretson
Subject: Funky doo (no oobe content)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:40:04 GMT

Last night before I went beddy-bye, I was reading this group, so I was
determined to have an oobe that night. Well, I just fell asleep instead.
But in the middle of the night, I woke up to find my right arm extended into
the air, bent at the elbow, and waving all over the place. I couldn't really
feel my arm, let alone stop it from flopping around.

As I became less groggy, I realized that I had fallen asleep with my arm behind
my head, and that it had fallen asleep along with me. I guess I had tried
to move my arm while I was sleeping, but it was so numb that I didn't have
much control over it. Sorta freaked me out at the time. I guess you had to be 
there.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Astral Travel Guide
From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 22:02:12 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

peters@physics.ubc.ca (Dan Peters) writes:

> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
> 
> >Cord may be other color. You should *NEVER* cut it or 
> >think about cutting it - it's your only guaranty to return to your body.
> 
> But now that you've said that, how can anyone possibly avoid thinking about
> it?

They can't.  The guy is a malignant asshole.

--                    
INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: marino@dxcern.cern.ch (Massimo Marino)
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: First try...
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:20:10 GMT
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics

I have been reading this group since a month or so and got little by little more
interested in the argument. Then I decided to give it a try even if I had no
precise idea on what to do (just got some ideas while reading articles in the
group). Unfortunately I had two scary experiences so I urge some help!
What I did is mainly try to reach (while in bed) a state of full relaxing, then
I begin to feel my body as a distant "thing", my consciousness concentrated
in my head (approximately) and as my arms and legs were very short. I feel
as I am floating rather then lying on the bed. This has been the only result
I got until 15 days ago. Then I simply felt asleep.
Then happend the first strange thing. I awoke in the middle of the night and
I had the sensation to have my eyes still closed even if I was able to
"see" the room not very clearly: a sort of glowing light was enlightning the
room, and I saw a "person" standing in the room, then he started to approach
and I panicked, I felt my heart beating in my throat violently and I
litearlly moved spasmodically (I had the feeling to move and, at the same time
that my body was not moving at all in the bed), finally I *awoke*, or at least
that was the sensation even if I did not lose perception and consciousness at any time, my heart beating violently and sweating.
I was scared but I tried the same after one night of rest.
Again nothing happend at first so I felt asleep after the relaxation exercise
but I awoke abruptly: my body was shaking furiously but only my head was resting
on the pillow: the rest was in mid air.
Maybe is stupid, but I panicked again and tried forcedly to stop it and I
succeded after a while (I had the impression that something was pulling me
out and shaking me from left to right). The all experience lasted (maybe) 30
seconds. Now I stopped since an entire week.
Is there anybody willing to calm me down and advise me in ANY WAY!?

Thanx, Massimo
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Massimo Marino     |internet: marino@hplaa01.cern.ch| marino@dxcern.cern.ch     
CERN - PPE Division|bitnet:   marino@cernvm.bitnet  |  
1211 Geneve 23     |decnet:   vxcern::marino        |   
Switzerland        |FAX:      (41) (22) 785 - 0207  |  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.oobe
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: MORE EXPERIENCE
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:40:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct03.131621.30022@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucsatsd@ucl.ac.uk (-8  Big Bad Bob (B3)  8-) writes in part:
|> 
|> It cannot be denied that if the second body were electromagnetic, and the
|> amplitude of the wave/s comprising it extremely low, it may be undetectable
|> given our instrumentation. 
It can definitely be denied and I do so.

|> All things concerned, however, I have no real
|> data with which to argue against you. In fact, I'm not sure that I think
|> that the second body *is* electromagnetic. I just have no basis from which
|> to deny the possibility  (including Susan Blackmore, who, in an interview
|> which I saw, admitted that she had never got any positive result  in any
|> paranormal experiment whatsoever, which to my fanciful mind suggests a
|> suppressor.)
She has, however, definitely had an OBE (among other amazing personal
experiences).  Don't be so closed-minded and bigoted.  Why don't you find 
out the truth about what Blackmore has experienced instead of labelling her.  
Read her books.  You might learn something.

|> As above, I can't help but wonder as to instrument sensitivity used in these
|> tests. Another thought occurs - the subtle bodies all operate in levels of
|> existance appropriate to the individual body, not directly on the physical,
|> but on analogues thereof. The first plane up, the etheric, is very nearly
|> identical to the prime material, which is why OOBEs appear to be in the
|> real world. That would mean that the movement of a subtle body would have 
|> no discernable effect, because the material which comprises the etheric also
|> comprises the etheric body. To detect the movement of the body through
|> electromagnetic interference would be like trying to spot someone move from
|> New York to Los Angeles by looking for deflections in the Earth's orbit.

This is all very poetic.  Do you have any evidence for any of these 
marvelous (but hardly original) speculations?

|> There's nothing wrong with stirring some debate up. I accept that there is
|> unlikely to be any evidence for an electromagnetic second body, but I also
|> accept that there is a reasonable possibility that it may be the case.

There is only the slightest possibility.  Your etherial levels theory is
probably more likely to be correct that the electromagnetic hypothesis.  
Thus, I would not agree with the terms 'reasonable possibility'.

In the end, I find that, after all the to-and-froing, we come to a fair
agreement:

  1.  The 'second body' might be some electromagnetic phenomenon.
  2.  There is no evidence that this actually is the case.
  3.  There are other hypotheses which should be considered (such
  as your etherial levels or subtle body theory)


-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Xref: sparky alt.out-of-body:109 alt.oobe:283