HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ARTIMUS IS A JACKASS AND A COWARD
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:06:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr11.150617.27188
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <9204091801.AA19367@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas) writes:

>Artimus you asshole...

Please, please, you *know* how references to the nether
orifice make him quiver in anticipation.  Maybe we should
work out a taxonomy (I mistyped it as toxomony at first) of
such unwelcome intruders, doufus semperobsessens for
Artimus, doufus juveniliens for Karnes, etc.

>BTW: May the maggots of a thousand flies infest your urinal
>tract.

There's an idea, and a good reason to stay out of public
toilets.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OUTING, cont.
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:09:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr17.200908.24110
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <farenebt.703537623@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) writes:
>>>I think the subject says it all. Personally, I think it's very unethical
>>>for gays to out other gays. 
>
>>Why don't you spend a little time thinking about:
>
Well, with your response you clearly didn't and it isn't my job to
educate you.  I've got better things to do, like attending a flogging.

>>3) Why is it different saying "Johnny Depp likes to take it up the butt
>>and is queer as a three dollar bill" and "Johnny Depp likes the color
>>red"?  
>
>If Johnny Depp wants to keep his fetish for the color red private, why is
>that any of my or your damn business?

I know the answer, do you?

No go ahead and post away pretending you're adding value to our forum.
Puff yourself up like a horny toad.  It bothers us when strayt boyz
crash our party and demand to be made the center of attention because
*their* opinion is sooo important, but we're used to it.  Strayt boyz
are like that, they can't ever just shut up and listen.

We'd really rather that you go crash an Easter service lead by some
bigot and ask him to explain this God stuff 'cause you don't get it.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: outing the stars
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:39:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.094024.1490@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.003753.12441@cs.ubc.ca> manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis) writes:
>>Not being a lesbian, I became a computer scientist.
>
>I wish I had a quotes file.

So start one!  I caved in under pressure, too ...

(Besides, this one fits your criteria, Nelson.  It's only one line
long ... just edit out the period.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
From: pierce@husc4.harvard.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Deletions
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:49:16 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <3246@daily-planet.concordia.ca> gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith) writes:

>I don't see the economic fallout here. The easiest way to do what
>Frank wants would be to convert soc.motss into a moderated group. This
>is done all the time and does not entail any particular expense. Of
>course, a few forged postings might turn up anyway.

If Artimus doesn't know how to get past newsgroup moderation, or
wouldn't do so if he was given half a chance, I will eat my hat.
Hell, Gene, I'll eat yours too.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                /
\  / pierce@husc.harvard.edu   /         See it and understand.
 \/ (aka twpierce@amherst.edu) /
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Subject: Re: Asimov and sexism
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:48:20 GMT

twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>For my Science Fiction class, we read a short story by Russ entitled
>"When It Changed," which we were told was the (unpublished?) short
>that inspired her to write THE FEMALE MAN.  My professor concurs with
>your opinion of THE FEMALE MAN, and much preferred "When It Changed."
>Since it is only a few pages long, and I am led to understand that it
>was not published, I may post it later if there is interest.

"When It Changed" by Joanna Russ was originally published in
_Again, Dangerous Visions_ edited by Harlan Ellison, in 1972.
It was reprinted in _Kindred Spirits_ edited by Jeffrey M.
Elliot, in 1984 (Alyson Publications).

Max
max@athena.mit.edu
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 14:05:03 EDT
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.motss,
Subject:    re: Lip synching and stuff

> ACM022@Zeus.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>A little question: What music causes you to lip-synch shamelessly when
>noone else is around (or even in public)?

It used to be the Supremes - all of them - until I pulled a shoulder
muscle doing the hand choreography in "Stop in the Name of Love"

Maria Bethania (who? But we have a language problem)
Jimmy Sommerville (gives me a sore throat even lip synching)
Sam Harris (is he still alive?)
Roberta Flack & Peabo Bryson (simultaneously - it helps to have some
   coaching by a Gyuto monk.)
and some woman (Sheila Armstrong?) who sings the Pie Jesu on a recording
of Faure's requiem which I have.

My all time knock em dead performance is probably as Etta James.  I
find myself especially spellbinding doing "Let's Burn the Cornfield Down"
au naturel in the light a bank of seventy-eight votive candles.  It's
very powerful but requires a hell of a lot of air conditioning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jack Carroll     "One no longer has to parody, it is enough to quote --"
<SECBH@CUNYVM>
                                                  Thomas Merton
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Basic Instinct
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:33:54 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: US West NewVector, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Mar25.220410.4105@uwm.edu> spaz@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Trebor Strunderthuck) writes:
>The people protesting the lesbian portrayal in "Basic Instinct" (whether they
>are gay or not) should get back to their abortion chains....I think it's
>silly. You won't see white guys protesting in front of the movie "White Men
>Can't Jump", will ya? Sheesh. Oh well....enough of my dribble.
					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Quite enough.



     Donn Pedro ...................{uunet, sequent, pn400}!uswnvg!dfpedro.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: PDX 'con help!
Organization: Tom's Box of Ahedonia
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:08:06 GMT

I am trying to arrange to go to the 'con and I need some help.

I need housing.  Any suggestions?  Any offers?

How do I get from the airport (I assume PDX) to said housing?

Is there a decent discount rent-a-car near by?  (just in case)

Maybe we need to do a FAQ posting on this?
Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (play) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Alexander the Great (history or fiction)
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:30:50 GMT
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr2.182114.2150@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM> michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott) writes:
>She wrote a book set in 1920's (or thereabouts) London, in which a
>teenage girl runs away to live with her older sister on a boat on
>the Thames.  The older sister is very butch and shares a bedroom
>with a very femme woman.  It's fairly clear that the two are a
>couple, but nothing explicit.  As a comparison, the relationship
>is like the one in the movie version of "Fried Green Tomatoes",
>but probably not as explicit as the book.
 
read: not explicit.  the only sex scene is between the older 
sister and a man.  (i haven't quite finished it yet, but am
near the end)

>In the introduction, Renault writes to the effect that everyone
>knows what sex is about, and if they have to be told what is
>happening or when it happens, they have very poor imaginations.
>
>I'm bad with titles, but it's something like "Those ____ Young Ladies".
>Eccentric?  Exotic?  Unusual?  Some word like that.  Come to think of
>it, it may have been "modern".

_the_friendly_young_ladies_

>It's kind of a cute book, but not riveting.

actually, very disappointing.  i'm a big mary renault fan and 
was really looking forward to this book, where she would finally
talk about *us* (motsswimmin).  sigh.  go read one of her other
books.  

peg
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 04:22:21 GMT


AHA!

But is Madonna raking in millions 
BECAUSE of her dancers? Do they
coreograph? (no).  Do theywrite
music? (no). Do they do all of the 
public appearances, interviews, 
media, etc. etc. etc.? (no); -or-
are the inclusion of openly Gay men
a political statement in a time when 
being openly Gay is most well known
as making you a terget for Fagbashing?

Lusi Camacho is not the key to
Madonna's success any more than
Max Factor was the SOLE reason Carole
Lombard was a demigoddes...

forgive the types my fingers
are mushy tonight...
-- 
"Imagine a war in which everyone won..."
Pet Shop Boys, "DJ Culture"
-----------------------------------------
Ward Chanley - bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: These Boots Weren't Made For Walking
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 00:44:16 GMT


In article <1992Apr9.233332.4444@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:

>In article <1992Apr9.225039.18521@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
>writes:

>> Doncha _hate_ it when people use "prostrate" instead of "prostate"?

>Down with prostatocentrism!  I suspect that one could well enjoy the
>stimulation of any number of other glands when prostrate ...

O, would that you, Sue, pined for me!

(Prosthetic humor.)

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Murdering Adonis
Summary: Caudwell's books and also New Orleans Mourning praise
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:34:15 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen) writes:
 >I *know* I should not ask it here but what is the third book called?
 >I am also a fan of Hilary and have enjoyed (maybe not in the sense of 
 >the first poster, however) her first two books.

Since I don't know the order (except that _Adonis_ is the first),
I'll just say that the other two are _The Shortest Way to Hades_ and
_The Sirens Sang of Murder_.  (I may be distorting the titles a
little, but that's close.)

I'm posting rather than replying because I think the books are
interesting enough for this crowd to warrant the attention.

To justify the article I'll add that I've just read _New Orleans
Mourning_ by Julie Smith.  Wow.  I don't want to say too much about
the motss content because part of the mystery involves the sexual
orientation of one of the characters. 

One point that I can make without giving things away is that it's
quite possible to write a story in which you create a character who
may be gay and closeted for good reason without being gay-negative.
Smith sets this up just beautifully, I thought.  (And no, I'm not
talking about the character of questionable orientation.)

It may have been someone in this very newsgroup who called this book
to my attention; I know it was an article somewhere on the net.
Anyhow, if you like mystery stories read it.   I'm going to find the
rest of Smith's stuff.





-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (Larry D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: info on H Ross Perot's EDP?
Keywords: H Ross Perot, EDP more repressive than IBM
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 03:31:43 GMT

In <4338@calmasd.Prime.COM> wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Walt  Peterson) writes:
>proudest moment in H. Ross Perot's life was when he became an Eagle
>Scout!
   Careful Walt, I'm fucking an Eagle Scout and have been for some time.
   No badge until he gets it right!   ;-)
>*THAT* speakes volumes for the man's mind-set.
   And volumes for his leg-set.

   No flame intended BTW.  I've heard rumors of the same thing you relate
   first-hand.
-- 
"Closets are for clothes" 
"Those who don't know are terminally stupid or virginally new"
"I should have known it was doomed.  I don't like tea."  -Tea for Two
L. D. Stratton   larry@bradley.edu   (309) 693-8500 when all else fails
From: carlton@husc8.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sister Mary Luscious Lips
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:31:42 GMT
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: akcs.kennedy@vpnet.chi.il.us's message of 4 Apr 92 22:55:03 GMT

In article <29de23ac-36b1.64soc.motss-1@vpnet.chi.il.us>,
akcs.kennedy@vpnet.chi.il.us (Edward A. Kennedy, Jr.) writes:

> Repeating yourself?

This is coming from somebody who just saw fit to repost a thousand
lines of articles from a thread that he started in a vain attempt to
create discussion on something that he but nobody else cared about?
Gack.

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

        Lying pig.  I'm the Pope, too.
                       - John Dorrance
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Evolutionary reason for homo/bisexuality?
Followup-To: soc.motss
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 06:15:52 GMT

In article <xrpjqmj.rich@netcom.com> rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen) writes:
>Recently I've found myself speculating on a question that,
>surprisingly, I haven't seen discussed here:  What is the evolutionary
>reason for homo- and bisexuality?
>[...]
>[plausable discussion of altruism deleted]
>
>* A tendency to homosexuality is linked with a higher sex drive in
>general, leading bisexual males to have more offspring than strictly
>heterosexual males.
>
>* Sexuality cements pair-bonding, which is of great survival value, and
>the presence of homo- and bisexual people allows a clan to pair up more
>effectively when one sex is depleted for some reason.  Thus when male
>M1 and female F1 have children, and (say) M1 dies, and F1 pairs up with
>female F2, F1's ability to have a motss partner helps her existing
>offspring survive.

(I'm not sure this has enough bi relevance for soc.bi, so I'm directing
follow-ups to soc.motss)

I tend to agree with the thrust of these arguments, if one reads them as
suggesting that homosexuality is one manifestation of a generalized
sexuality (both reproductive and social bonding).  As a bisexual I
can testify to the existence of a generalized sexualuality ;-).

I would not base these arguments on a simplistic selection of "bisexual
males" vs "homosexual males", but on overall tendencies in the population.
Population and kin selection are key to any discussion of this sort of thing.

It may be evolutionarally "easier" to produce an "oversexed" group in 
which sexuality spills over into non-reproductive behavior (homo, het or
bi) than to achive equal levels of reproduction and survival in a group
with narrowly focused reproductive sexuality.  If this non-reproductive
sexuality has adaptive benifits like altruism or social bonding, so much the
better.

Also bear in mind that sex differences between men and woman are
relatively small in genetic and behavioral terms, and that human behavior
in general tends to generalized intellegence rather than instinctive
behavior. (Thus men and woman can't be "programmed" very differently or 
very rigidly.)

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Education with motss-positive potential
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:01:19 GMT
Reply-To: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Organization: International Computers Limited, Reston, Virginia, USA


I just posted on something I saw in the new (April, I guess)
Atlantic magazine.  Now I've got another one.  Motss relevance
will be revealed presently.

A 5-6 page article talks about the failure of the current,
one-size-fits-all, robot-producing American educational
system, and then talks about experimental models of
education being tried out here and in other countries.

It's a very interesting article, especially to someone
like myself who found public school to be an agony of
repetition and irrelevance.

Among other things, it dealt at length with a computer-
oriented learning approach, in which the student is exposed
to a "story" (say, a segment on history, or perhaps an actual
literary work), and can interrupt the story at any time to
home in on something that was said or displayed, and request
more information on that thing.  This way, the student can
focus on what is interesting to him/her, rather than what
is interesting to the teacher. (No flames from teachers,
please -- I've taught, too.)

One version of the approach is being developed under George
Lucas, and is close to being usable.


Motss relevance?  Three things come to mind:

1) Every step society takes away from the "one-size-fits-all"
   mode is good.  In a society where there is no choice in
   learning or careers (for example), how can we expect to
   have our choice of sexual behavior accepted?

2) Picture a young student who suspects she/he may be gay.
   If the learning material has information on homosexuality,
   the student can voluntarily, individually seek it out.

3) Related to #2.  This new learning tool will be a whole
   new forum for either inclusion or exclusion of our
   existence.  If this tool is going to be used to teach
   a new generation of students, we MUST make sure it has
   motss-oriented content, or we will again be invisible.

   I don't know much about George Lucas.  I know he is
   "modern", which I tend to associate with "liberal", but
   I don't know his views on motss-orientation.  Is there
   hope that he might help us on this one?


Please note: if this whole scheme seems unlikely to work
or be implemented, you're wrong.  It is on its way.
Personally, I am thrilled by the possibility that another
generation of students won't have to suffer from education
the way I did.


Michelle Elliott
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Turing and "The Machine that changed the world"
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:07:31 GMT

> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>I think the most disappointing thing about this episode was
>learning that Derek Jacobi played Turing as the stuttering
>Claudius in "I, Claudius".

That does seem to be his schtick, doesn't it?  At least, in
Turing's case, it seems the stutter was accurate.  Don't know
about Claudius.  Anyone remember if Jacobi's Hamlet stuttered?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
From: huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kathryn Huxtable)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Asimov and sexism
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:51:29 CDT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Well, we can begin the post-mortems now....

In article <1992Apr3.181340.17432@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM>
    michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott) writes:
> I HAVE noted that Asimov's fiction tends to share that
> simplistic, cutesy, adoring, het, "put women on a pedestal
> because they are kind enough to love us ugly old men in
> spite of all our faults" flavor that Heinlein's does.

In article <1992Apr6.085949.10752@husc3.harvard.edu>, pierce@husc4.harvard.edu
    (Tim Pierce) writes:
> Good description of Asimov, but I found Heinlein's attitude to be
> closer to "What do you mean, you don't love me?  You're a woman,
> ain'tcha?"

I haven't cared that much for either writer's recent
fiction.  I still like Heinlein's '50s juveniles and I still
like Asimov's short story output through the '50s and '60s.
I can ignore much of the sexism because it was so pervasive
in the fiction of the time.  When it shows up in more recent
work I can't ignore it.

My assessment of Asimov (which doesn't quite seem to agree
with anyone else here) is that personally he was a lech but
intellectually and politically he supported equality for
both women and men.  Heinlein on the other hand believed
that women were intrinsically different from men (who were
the standard) and that they had a higher calling:  making
babies.  There are tons of examples throughout his fiction
all expressed in that Heinlein-laying-down-the-laws-of-the-
universe tone of voice.

Asimov, on the other hand, rarely addressed anything sexual
in his fiction so his attitudes must be gleaned from his
non-fiction of which there's more in any case.  Politically
I rarely disagreed with Asimov but Heinlein's attitudes
frequently angered me.

-- 
Kathryn Huxtable              \   "Women who laugh too much, and the women
huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   /\   who love them." --- Jamie Anderson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thomas@acuson.com (Chris Thomas)
Subject: Re: Jason Donovan
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:52:13 GMT

jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:

>Talking about suing people, over here we have just witnessed
>a libel action by Jason Donovan, an Australian twink pop-
>singer, against The Face magazine. 

Well, isn't that special!  As I dig into my collection of memorabilia,
I find the 26 July 1989 issue of "Smash Hits" and the following excerpt
from an article/interview with The Jason:

"The last LP he bought was 'Dirty Boulevards' by... Lou Reed"

[When he had to "propose" to Kylie Minogue on "Neighbours:]  "Sometimes
you look at a script and you think 'Oh God, I've got to tell her she's
the most gorgeous person in the world and I can't live without her....'"

"I want to be Jason Donovan as me, not what people want me to be."

"Jason's best pal, James, on Jason: 'He's actually a real hard person
to get close to as a friend.  I remember the first couple of times I
suggested going over to his house after school, he'd always make
excuses....  He knows he's got to make the most of it now because
he's probably not going to be here in ten years time.'"

Of course, I wouldn't insinuate *anything*... no, not at all.  (Why
a three-year old issue of "Smash Hits" is in my closet is left as an
exercise for the reader.)
-- 
Chris Thomas						(415) 694-5614
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++          thomas@acuson.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss