HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Desert Eagle .50AE
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:55:05 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

Well, I was at the range today & got to fire someone's .50AE Desert
Eagle.  Wow.  Awesome.
It made a BIG bang & a big fireball.
The recoil was noticeable, however I found it tamer than my friend's
.44Mag Super Blackhawk which actually causes pain to fire.
Conclusion?   I need a .50AE DE.   :-)  :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla        | "I don't enforce the law, I regulate |
| CMC                      |  human behaviour"                    |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |    - Commissioner Scali              |
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:26 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Aug19.020213.8449@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#In article <9208140007.AA13895@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
#}I think that it might be useful to present some of our dumb
#}mistakes as learning material.  I'm sure that most of us
#}have done something or other while shooting that might have
#}been avoided if we had been thinking about it, or more
#}observant of what we were doing.
#}
#}This migh help others learn to avoid potential trouble by
#}someone else's experience (that is, less painfully).

Loading my Winchester .30-30.  Jack the lever, bang!  Oops.
Fortunately the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction.  What went
wrong?  Had my finger in the trigger guard.  To my credit, it is very
easy to do this with this particular gun if you don't pay attention.
Lesson learned:  *always* pay attention, and always keep the damned
muzzle well away from anything you don't want to hurt or kill.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! Not IU's!# Will be
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! # President
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion# for Food
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: German Firearms Regulations
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:55:09 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.213818.17031@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#
#Can someone tell me what firearms, if any, the ordinary citizen is
#allowed to own in Germany?  How about tourists and/or US Military
#folk assigned there?
#
I was stationed in Germany about 10 years ago.  They had a sporting goods
store right on base that sold guns.  You could get great deals on Sigs,
H&Ks, Walthers and others.  I bought a VP70Z pistol when I was over there.
We used to shoot at a range where you had to pay 12 deutschmarks to shoot
for the whole day.  That was about $5 in American money.  When I brought
the gun back to the states, I had to get customs paperwork, and some form
from the BATF.  I had to do all of this 90 days before I came back to the
states.  

There were some German gun shops downtown.  I went in there a few times,
but the dealer wouldn't even talk to me.  He said he didn't speak english,
but I think he just didn't like GI's.  I don't know about the laws, but
most of the Germans we saw at the range had .22 pistols, or shotguns.
One thing to note:  Alot of stores sell 'gas pistols'.  They shoot blanks
or small tear gas pellets for self defense.  Alot of them look like real
guns, but they aren't.  Make sure you don't buy one thinking it's a
real gun.
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chronographs, pressure tape
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:20 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign


In article <9208190925.aa16890@sco1.qdeck.com>, you write:
#In article <Bt7078.6LB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
##	Oehler has a good one, Pact is a good one, the Chrony is cheap
##	and accurate as the pact ones, but it's very easy to shoot a hole
##	in it. I'd go with one of the first two.

	Let me clarify my statement: I've tested the Chrony against
	the Pact, but I've not tested it against the Oehler. Chrony
	vs Pact with handgun velocities didn't show any significant
	difference (ie less than ~2-3fps difference shot to shot),
	measured at about 900-1000fps. 

	Because of the short spacing between the Chrony's photocells,
	I imagine that at rifle velocities it's error will be larger
	than that of either the Oehler or Pact. For this reason, I'd
	go with something that has a longer base line. 

-c
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Concealed Carry
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:30:49 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul) writes:

#My old roommate got busted with my 38 special derringer a few years ago.
#It was loaded with 2 38 shotshells.  She had it in her purse.  She was
#sentenced for 6 months, but after 2 months in jail, it was suspended and
#she got 2 years probation.  This was in northern California.  It was no
#easy task getting the gun back.

Why did the police look in her purse?
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm major / 9x21 reloading question
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:38:58 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#You may find it strange to have a full sized gun chambered to fire .32 ACP
#size bullets; the M1 Carbine can therefore be seen as a long gun firing 
#.32 ACP size bullets. THe difference of course is in velocity. Guns chambered
#in 7.62x25 also fire .32 ACP size bullets; with Czech ammo they come out
#at 1600 ft/s; just a bit faster than pocket pistols :)

The 7.62x25 is an interesting round, but I don't seem to like any of
the guns chambered for it.   I'll look at the CZ-52 in person next 
chance I have, but I don't like the looks of the photos (this means
nothing: I thought Glocks were ugly until I shot some, now I see how
pretty they are (^;)   I believe Star made a 1911 clone in 30 Mauser
in the 1920s.  I'd like to have such a novelty, as I like Star and 
I like 1911 types, and I think 30M/7.62T would be interesting to 
reload for.

BTW, could M1 Carbines be made in 10mm?  Would there be anything 
good about it.   I've thought the M1 would be interesting in some other
caliber, 10mm, .44 Mag, .357, .223, anything.   Would hot 10mm in a rifle
barrel be preferable to .30 carbine to any of you?  What I've heard
about .30 carbine is not encouraging: very loud and little velocity
or stopping power.

A wacky idea: a colt AR-15 type in .357 Mag.   Imagine the black rifle
chambered for that rimmed revolver round, one seeming more at home in 
a lever action.

#Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply

Jim D
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 10mm barrel
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:13:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt8IrK.6y7
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1992Aug18.174224.1@pembvax1.pembroke.edu>, death@pembvax1.pembroke.edu writes:
#could anyone tell me where i could buy a 6 inch or longer barrel for a  Glock
#mod 20?  I'd like to take it deer hunting, but the barrel is too short to be
#legal.
#

BarSto may make you one: 619 367 2747
Let me know what they say. . . 
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Surplus rifle advice
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:31:28 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <9208131129.aa09507@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
...
#Mausers in 6.5mm are a decent choice if you can get brass; 6.5mm/.257
#bullets are readily available. The 7.65mm Mausers - same, except .30
#bullets.

On a related note--In the latest Atlanta Discount Ammo flier, PMC 6.5 mm
Swedish is selling for $9.39 for a box of 20.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: danb@hp-ptp.ptp.hp.com (Dan Bergmen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Re: Ruger Blackhawk .357/9mm in Stainless wanted ...
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:11:13 GMT
Organization: HP Pacific Technology Park - Sunnyvale, Ca.



#Best bet would have been to have the blued gun refinished in stainless.
#                                               ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^^
#Many companies will refinish firearms.  You could have had it in
#stainless, black chrome, chrome, etc.  But don't count on getting the
#same revolver back if you had to send it back to Ruger for servicing.

Stainless is not a finishing step it is the original material the gun
is made from. It is either made from Stainless Steel or Steel then 
blued (or nickle plated, rhodium plated, etc.).
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beginners ?'s on caliber
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:39:13 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

SYSTEMM@FRED.ALHRG.WPAFB.AF.MIL (System Manager Wuest) writes:


#   The designations .22, .25, .357. .45, etc. _ARE IN INCHES_.   That is 
#   caliber *is* inches.  Of course, if a caliber is suffixed with mm, then
#   obviously the designation is metric (millimeters).  A handy "rule-of-thumb",
#   mm * 4 = caliber.  I.E., 6 mm = _about_ .25, 9mm = _about_ .36.  There is 
#   one exception, with no good explanation; .38 caliber actually uses a bullet
#   of .357 diameter.  Thus .38 SPL can be used in a .357 chambered gun.

It may be worth giving the conversions of the "standard" calibres
.22" = 5.56mm
.25" = 6.35mm
.30" = 7.62mm
.357" = 9mm
Of course, there are some confusions  -  some cartridges were given a
calibre in inches which was larger than the bullet diameter, thus 
.38 Special is a .357 and .32 ACP is a .308 (30-calibre).

What I never understood was the designations given to the various .22
centrefires, which seem to go from .217 (Donaldson Wasp?) through more
standard items like .222 Remington, .223 Remington up to .225 Winchester (?),
yet they all use the same .22 calibre bullet.  Was the last digit considered
optional?  Similarly, the distinction between 7.62mm and 7.65mm seems to
be manufacturer's preference rather than anything else.

#   The symbols you asked about are: LR - Long Rifle (a .22 designation),
#   ACP - Automatic Caliber Pistol.

ACP  -  Automatic Colt Pistol.  Thus .45 ACP in the Gov't Model and its
predecessor, .25 ACP, .32 ACP and .380 ACP in the Browning-designed
pocket pistols manufactured by Colt.  From memory (always unreliable 
at this time of day) the .38 ACP was chambered in the larger pistols
and was developed into the .38 Super.

#   Single Action means you have to manually cock the hammer, then pull the
#   trigger for each and every shot.  E.G., pulling the trigger performs a
#   "single action"; discharging the arm.  Double action means that pulling 
#   the trigger will both cock the hammer, and release it.  E.G., pulling the 
#   trigger performs a "double action".  

This is current usage.  As pointed out before, the original usage was:

SA  -  only one method of operation, either thumb-cocking (early Colts)
       or trigger-cocking (early Adams and other European designs);  

DA  -  usable in thumb-cocking or trigger-cocking modes.

Current usage, of course, leads to the paradox of a gun being described 
as "DA-only", meaning that it has a single (trigger-cocking) mode of
operation.

#|  "If it wasn't for our guns, we would be British citizens.  Think about it!"|

Is that an argument for or against gun control?  [:-), of course.]

Geoff Miller (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)  |   Don't steal.  The government
Computer Centre                     |   hates competition.
Australian Defence Force Academy    |   (via Jeff Cooper)
From: JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: lost or stolen during flight!
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:25:01 GMT


I decided to post this after thinking about the event that happened while I was
on a three week trip.  I was on the last leg of my trip from Atlanta to Chicago
when a bag of mine did not appear on the conveyor at my destination.  The case 
contained a Glock model 21 .45 caliber pistol.  Also in the case was my holster
made by MinuteMan Technologies and my FFL.
I was one of the first people to the baggage claim area and did not see my case
come out on the conveyor belt the entire time I was there.  The serial number
for my pistol is VG184US.  The likelyhood of American Airlines finding this
case is nil.  They will process a claim and I will be reimbursed, but that is
not as important as what or where that pistol is now.  I am having a curtesy
report filed by the local police that will go out and id the pistol as stolen.
I hope thay will find it, but that is a far fetched idea.

If there is any information please contact me @ Jeffd@hls.com or call me
at (408)925-2634.
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dropping a gun
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:33:47 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / jalden@coos.dartmouth.edu (Joshua M. Alden) /  6:04 am  Aug  7, 1992 /

#If you are, or have been, a police officer, could you comment?  If you
#know one, could you ask?

#    It happens that I disucussed this with Massad Ayoob (police Captain
#and director of the Lethal Force Institute, among other things) two
#days ago.  His advice:  drop it.  Yes, they'll tell you to drop it.
#
#   Remember, they've just yelled:  "DON'T MOVE!  POLICE!  DROP THE
#WEAPON!"  They're used to dealing with criminals, and people in general
#often turn at sudden noises.  If you do something other than freeze
#solid and slowly open your hand to let the weapon drop, you're screwed.

Since Joshua has already posted Mas's views, I'll contribute the results
of my discussion with John Farnum.  In short DITTO!

Open your hand, let it fall.  NOW.  Your life is hanging by a thread.

Yet another reason why you don't want to pick an exotic/expensive 
weapon for self defense.   If you decide to get into the competitive 
shooting sports, simply resign yourself to the fact that these gun(s)
over here are my competition guns, and these over there are my street
gun(s).

Besides, do you want to trust your life to a gun that you expect will 
likely be damaged by a 3 foot drop?  If you carry it every day, it is 
going to get beat up anyway.  

Also another reason to practice HOLSTERING your gun.  Maybe there is 
indeed a good reason that John's performance standards include being 
able to holster one handed and without looking in under 1.5 seconds.
He gives you 2.0 to draw and fire, and hit your first target.  Maybe
this has something to do with getting out of trouble faster than 
you can get into it? :-)

Rick.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:52 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Aug19.161711.28763@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
##From article <9208181451.AA17100@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>, by bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow):
## In article <6!0m!c_.pauly@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
## #Well, here's what Bill Wilson has to say about dropping the slide on an
## #empty chamber:
## #
## #"Look at the way a .45 Colt is meant to operate.  When you fire the gun, before
## #you can ever get your finger off the trigger, the slide cycles.  The slide   
## #cycles while the trigger is held back; everything is disconnected.  You're
## #still holding the trigger back when the slide slams home.  That's the way the
## #gun is designed to work."
## #
## #Paul Yoshimune
## 
## It has been 20 years since I fired the .45 and I am getting conflicting info.
## A long gun shooter, I was shooting the national match course at the invitation
## of the pistol team.  As I remember it the sequence was like this: insert
## loaded magazine, depress trigger, cycle slide, release trigger, wait for
## firing instructions.  However, I visited at gun store this week looking at
#
Forgot apply safety.

#I don't recall anything about putting one's finger on the trigger
#when not intending to shoot.  When cycling the slide to load the
#first round, I wouldn't think it would matter whether the gun was
#cocked or not.  I wasn't trained in the military though.  I would
#be concerned about the gun going bang when the slide closed if I
#were holding the trigger down, but I guess I _am_ doing that
#every time I fire it.... 

The idea is that pulling the trigger causes the disconnector to lower
and not rub on the slide as it cycles. It also Prevents some jarring action
of the trigger mechanism.  Alot of this is a holdover from Bullseye shooting
and fine triggers.  While it should be take to heart, I don't take it to
extremes.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:39:23 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

I saw an add for Bolo ammunition in Shotgun News.  It was from the Blammo
Ammo Company.  It looked interesting, but they won't ship it to California.
They also had Min-Missle shotgun slugs, and Dragon's breath ammmo that would
shoot an impressive flame out of the barrel.  Supposedly it doesn't damage
your barrel.  Has anyone ever shot any of these?  Just curious to see if
they work as advertised.  Of course, none of these are available in
California.
From: bobv@spike.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Bob von Buelow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:54 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

In article <6!0m!c_.pauly@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#Well, here's what Bill Wilson has to say about dropping the slide on an
#empty chamber:
#
#"Look at the way a .45 Colt is meant to operate.  When you fire the gun, before
#you can ever get your finger off the trigger, the slide cycles.  The slide   
#cycles while the trigger is held back; everything is disconnected.  You're
#still holding the trigger back when the slide slams home.  That's the way the
#gun is designed to work."
#
#Paul Yoshimune

It has been 20 years since I fired the .45 and I am getting conflicting info.
A long gun shooter, I was shooting the national match course at the invitation
of the pistol team.  As I remember it the sequence was like this: insert
loaded magazine, depress trigger, cycle slide, release trigger, wait for
firing instructions.  However, I visited at gun store this week looking at
Colts, Tokarevs.  When I told the salesman/gunsmith about my rememberance, he
just looked blank and said that that was not the case.  Do I remember wrong?

Ob:stoopid:shooter:trick -  We received a couple of special training/practice
sessions before the match.  However, at the match next to me was a young
captain I hadn't seen before.  He must have been a "special" invitee (you
know how that goes!). He had apparently never fired anything other than
the .38 service revolver.  Well, just before the first .45 course he
turned to me, pointing the .45 at me and asked how to cock the weapon.
Being just an Airman 2-stripe, I suggested he seek instructions from the
range officer.  He fumbled a bit and turned back up range, gun cocked.
My heart was pounding a bit faster that normal competition nerves.
"Ready on the Right". pause. "Ready on the Left". pause. BOOM!! Young captain
had just shot a perfect .45 hole thru the new pine table at his station.  
The range officer, a Sgt. with enough stripes to make a zebra proud, slowly 
walked over and said with remarkable politeness, "Sir, could you come with
me, please?"  Never saw the Captain at the range again.  Thank God.

Bob
--
Bob von Buelow             Mars Observer Planning and Sequencing Element
bobv@quarky.jpl.nasa.gov         - standard disclaimers apply -

[MODERATOR:  Oh yeah, and the ever popular ADs during inspection....
normally the MP/officer has a drill for accepting the pistol, checking
it out which entails having the slide lock back, dropping the slide,
pointing pistol up, pulling trigger, then reinserting the mag.  Of course,
if the inspecting officer suffers a brain fart and reverses the last two
steps before returning the sidearm..... :-)  ... ]
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: lost or stolen during flight!
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:17:03 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208180348.AA04342@lanslide.hls.com> JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff) writes:
#I was one of the first people to the baggage claim area and did not see my case
			[deleted]

I heard on the new last month that they busted a ring of thieves in the 
baggage dept of O'Hare Airport (Chi).  THey confessed to stealing mostly
guns and camera bags.  THey liked guns the best.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: M1A or 38Super Factory Comp
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:15 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

For Sale:
 Springfield M1A, Black fiberglass stock, direct from the factory
$800 +shipping (this is their base model)

-or-

 Springfield Factory Comp 38Super + 3 extra magazines, direct from the
 factory. This gun has a double chamber comp, Adjustable sights,
Pachmayr grips, extended thumb safety, & Videki Speed trigger.
(this is a much better price than even dealer price: the
gun with one magazine is $690 from the distributor, magazines are
about $20 dealer/each, So this package is about $750 dealer)
$690 + shipping
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Rust Prevention
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:08:13 GMT

I don't think it was mentioned in the current thread on rust prevention,
but Bianchi Blue Bags seem to hold promise.

The Blue Bags are basically a plastic bag with a corrosion-preventative
lining.  I believe the active life is 3 years, and at the end of the
3 years Bianchi will send you a new one free.  I think this is a continuous
policy also - at the end of the 2nd bag's life, they'll again send you
a free replacement, and so on.

The cost:  $8.95 will get you three pistol-sized bags, and $6.95 will
get you one longarm-sized bag.  Loof for them in stores near you.

What have you got to lose?

Rob
From: tosirb@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Jim R. Sirbaugh (SVER))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Range near Cincinatti?
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:11:24 GMT
Organization: NASA/LeRC

I am interested in a gun range visible from I-75 north of Middletown Oh.,
approximately 15 min. south of Dayton. If anyone has information about the
type of range, membership, etc. Please respond. I am mostly interested in
high power, national match shooting.