HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Performance sailboat want
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 10:29:00 -0800

ATR>From: reuter@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Al T. Reuter)
ATR>Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.
Al: I'm sorry that I'm unable to give any input on your quest to replace
your J/24, in fact I'd like to pick your  brain about J/24s and that
 class of boat. I live in New Hampshire and sail on a small
lake and presently own a Precision 23 that I bought in Florida
before I got hooked on racing. We have some modest racing
twice weekly in what they call cruiser racing here. It is PHRF
racing and although not very high power I must say I am
enjoying it a great deal. I am trying to decide whether to sink
some money into sails and spinnaker gear and other go fast
stuff or sell my boat and spend some extra money moving to
something faster.
hATR>AfMy Precision 23 which is a keel centerboard design and has a
handicap of 231 puts me in between the top half of the fleet which is 2
J/24s, 2 Catalina Capri 25s, a "Fun Boat", a Catalina Capri 22 and
believe it or not a highly modified Tanzer 22, and the second half of
the fleet which is composed of a slower Tanzer 22, several Catalina 22s
and a Cape Dory Typhoon. The purchase of a spinnaker and a good new
Mylar Genoa will put me up there with the first half but I'm not
convinced I can win anything.ng class association? ATR>Are there any
           The J/24s in the fleet have been sailing with three in the
           crew and I notice you feel that five are needed. That would
           be a tough chore around here rounding up five. What else can
           you tell me that might be pertinent about j/24s? What do you
           know about J22s, Wavelength 24s, Mirage 23.6s etc. Any
           suggestions would be appreciated. By the way this has been my
           first season of racing and our lake would probably be
           characterized as having light air.

ATR>In particular, I'm looking for a 26' to 27' performance one-design monohull
ATR>that is easy to sail and trailer.  Crew limits of 3 to 4 people (including
ATR>skipper) would be preferable to the five it takes to competitively sail a
ATR>J/24.  Any suggestions (i.e. B-25, Carrera 290, etc.) or comments would be
ATR>appreciated.

ATR>Thanks,

ATR>Al Reuter
ATR>reuter@hpspkla.hp.com
ATR>(509) 921-3448

ATR>---
ATR> * Origin: Ship to Shore OIS Marine NET (604)540-9596 (1:153/764)
ATR> * TNet 2.2 = S2SNet

 * SLMR 2.0 * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Winter Boat Storage 
From: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:04:23 MDT
Reply-To: hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University

Now that the boating season is almost over and snow season is on the way
just what do all you people who can't store your boat inside do?  It looks
like my boat is going to winter on the driveway or in the back yard.  What
I am looking for is some kind of shelter I can put togather to cover it up.
Any sources of plans or descriptions of temporary shelters would be a huge
help.  Something reusable would be great.  I remember seeing one made of
PVC pipe and a poly tarp but I can't remember the details.  Any ideas?
What do you do?
--
Hal Lynch
	Internet: Hal@cache.declab.usu.edu
	DECnet:   USU::HAL
From: rfradenb@bbn.com (Roger Fradenburgh)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Banshee International: still a going concern?
Date: 31 Aug 1992 19:56:30 GMT
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


I just bought a used Banshee sailboat from a coworker.  He'd 
saved everything from the original purchase, including a 1983 
parts and price list.  If Banshee is still in business, I'd like
to get a current one, but Directory Assistance can't find
a listing for them in Los Altos Hills, CA, their home in '83.  
Does anybody know if this outfit still exists, and if so, where 
they're located these days?

Thanks in advance for any leads.

-Roger Fradenburgh
From: kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Formula for speed ?
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:51:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC

In article <1992Aug27.200958.4180@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.141850.13370@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod) writes:
>> 
>> 	16' X 7' = 112 ( again, assumes accuracy)
>> 	I suspect your boat has a transom height of less than 20"
>> 	and/or has a flat bottom with a hard chine like the aluminum
>> 	models (at least some of them) therefore,
>> 	.5 X 112 = 56
>> 	56 - 15 = 41
>> 	next multiple of 5 = 45
>> 	Therefore 45 HP would be the maximum legal limit.
>> 
>> 	AND THEN AGAIN. If your boat has < 20" transom and it does
>> 	not have a flat bottom or hard chine, then:
>> 	16' X 7' = 112 (same assumption)
>> 	.8 X 112 = 89.6
>> 	89.6 - 25 = 64.6
>> 	next multiple of 5 = 65
>> 	Therefore 65 HP would be the maximum.
>> 
>> NOTE THAT THE REGULATIONS, TABLES, AND CALCULATIONS DON'T HAVE ANY
>> REFERENCE TO CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS OR TRANSOM STRENGTH.  If a
>> manufacturer builds a boat with a transom that isn't strong enough
>> to support these limits I suspect they would be liable.
>> 
>I don't know which cat my boat would fall into but, my 16' Laser
>that has a 7' beam and a transom with less than 20" and a Coast
>Gaurd max limits plate that says 250hp max, 4 persons........
>How come the boat doesn't fit the formula?  Are there any other 
>factors that might be figured in the calculations?  Does the CG
>allow exception depending on construction?  I have a 2.5 
>Bridgeport on her and the rating of that engine is in the 250hp range,
>so I'm told.  Anyway the boat has stayed together and as long as the CG plate
>says 250 I'm legal....if 106 mph on the river is legal.......

The calculations used above are for monohull boats less than 20 feet
in length intended for use with one (or more) OUTBOARD MOTORS.  They
do not apply to canoes, kayaks, or inflatables.

Does anyone have specific information for INBOARDS or non-traditional
hull designs ...

ko
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: PHRF New Englands
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:38:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug31.133837.29711
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Dept. of Earth & Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

If you're beginning to plan next season, I'd highly recommend the PHRF
New England Championships held each year on the weekend before Labor
Day in Marblehead.  This year's event was the largest ocean racing
regatta in the east  north of Florida, the organization was superb with
the fleet split over three separate course areas, and the parties
featured ample Pusser's rum. Great weather (despite an atrocious
forecast) helped as well, with 14-20 knots on day one and 12-15 knots
on day two, and sunshine both days (a pretty rare occurrence this
summer).

Our fleet (fleet 6) consisted of 15 boats with a very narrow rating
band from 131 to 138, making for very nearly level rating racing,
including 5 S2 9.1's and a couple of Frers 30's. Most the fleets had
rating ranges of around 10-15 s/m. For our usual weekend racing we have
the rather large range of 29 s/m, so the narrow range was a great
change for us.

Great regatta - come do it next year.

Jeremy Bloxham
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey)
Subject: Re: first SR sighted...
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:08:56 GMT

The SR Max is actually the older of the two SR boats (SR 27 is the
other), and has been racing in Florida for three years now.

Therefore, I would guess The rating probably won't go much of
anywhere, maybe even up slightly.  In particular, a Florida SR Max is
177, a Chesapeake SR Max is 168, so the committee thinks that the SR
Max is a slightly better Bay boat than a Florida boat, but I would
guess that it really isn't much.  Plus, Chesapeake ratings tend to be
slightly lower than Florida ones across the board (seems to be ~6
s/m).

Plus PHRF committees also seem to tend to ding ``hot'' boats when they
first enter the region so they don't run away with all the silver
before anyone really knows what they're capable of.

Isn't your J/24 174 s/m?

We were passed on the way to the starting area in Key West by a SR 27
that was planing like a powerboat under spinnaker.  It looked like
fun.

There's also a brand new SR 33 design.

Steph
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Beginner
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:40:08 GMT

Can anyone really resist giving advice to a "beginner"?
Surely one of the strongest temptations known to man.
My contribution:

- Consider crewing on someone else's boat. Successful
  crewing is a matter of attitude, rather than sailing
  skills. In fact, if you simply show up reliably, you will
  be 90% of the way there. The advantage of crewing is
  that you learn as much as you want, plus you can sail
  on a big, expensive boat for free. Doesn't really
  work if you are getting into boating in order to 
  experience solitary communion with The Sea.

- Consider a partnership. If you have no more than 2 or 3
  partners, you will probably end up using the boat as
  often as you want. It sure is nice to pay those marina
  bills once every three months.

- Don't even think about buying a new boat. Waste of money.

- Don't think too much about buying a boat for the first year
  or two. You need to become familiar with local conditions
  and the types of boats that work well in your area.

- Sailing and powerboating are non-overlapping universes
  [hint: one requires skill (heh, heh, just kidding, guys)] 
  Try them both early to find out what kind of person you are.


Stefan Michalowski
stefan@sunrise.stanford.edu
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: winter storage
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:11:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug30.104430.14226@uwm.edu>, garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu (David C Garnham) writes:
> 
> I'd appreciate advice on proper storage of a new 17' I/O.  Should I pay $100
> extra for inside storage, or settle for shrink wrapped outside storage with
> separate battery storage?  Remember, this is Wisconsin where winters are
> real.  Thanks.
> -- 

  I opt for inside storage AND I remove the battery.  I wouldn't count on any
  consistency in heating in a big wharehouse for the entire winter. This is 
  Buffalo, where winters are not as real as they are in Wisconsin, tho the 
  rest of the world seems to think they are worse....

  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
From: wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Hobie 16 masts
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:17:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

It's my understanding that when a Hobie capsizes, the water tight mast should
float.  The club I'm in has two Hobie 16s and a Hobie 14.  The masts on all of
them leak.  Every time one of the boats capsizes, it inevitably turtles.
Unless you have a lot of extra weight, unturtling the boat is a real bitch.
If you can find a way to keep your mast watertight, I would strongly recommend
doing so.

Kent Leverich
WKL5819@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Lido 14 #3549
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Beginner
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:20:55 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug27.184237.4739@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, dtp1@donner.uucp (80733-patricia) writes:
> Hi,
> This is my first post to this news group and, as you will soon discover,
> I am totally new to boating. ...  I would like to purchase my first boat ...
> From reading this newsgroup for a couple of weeks I've become discouraged
> from owning a power boat. ... So now I am seriously considering a sailboat
> for use on large lakes and in bays in the northeast. ... 

  I am sure that you will get many lengthy and good responses to this post,
  from people who have much more experience than I do.  So I won't try to
  add to what I expect will be a lot of advice beyond one point:  the above
  pieces of your posting imply to me that you have not really thought through
  what you expect to use a boat for.  But I think that that should be your
  first priority.  Unless owning a boat is in and of itself the primary end
  goal.


  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org



  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey)
Subject: Re: unusual incident (was Re: Lobster Pot)
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:21:50 GMT

Well, since you know what pintles and gudgeons are, maybe you can give
me a good definition of ``partners'' and ``hounds''.

I've looked in several nautical dictionaries and glossaries, but never
found these.

My understanding is the partners (why is it plural?) is where the mast
meets the deck.  Does this only apply to keel stepped masts?  I get
the feeling that the hounds are where the top shrouds attach to the
mast, not to be confused with the tangs which are the actual fittings
which connect the shrouds to the mast.  Does this apply to other shroud attachment points?

I notice that Webster gives the following definitions:
  part-ner \'pa^:rt-ner also 'pa^:rd-\ n
  [ME partener, alter. of parcener, fr. AF, coparcener -- more at PARCENER]
  (13c)
  4: one of the heavy timbers that strengthen a ship's deck to support
       a mast -- usu. used in pl.

  hounds \'hau.n(d)z\ n pl
  [ME hune, of Scand origin; akin to ON hUnn knob at the top of a masthead,
       cub -- more at CAVE]
  (15c)
  :the fraing at the masthead of a ship that supports the heel of the
       topmast and the upper parts of the lower rigging

Of course, this doesn't give me a very strong sense of what they
describe on a modern bermuda rig.

I find it amusing how these four terms, pintles, gudgeons, partners
and hounds, are frequently used in introductory sailing books yet
never defined.  They are first rate examples of nautical gibberish
words.

Steph
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:37:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>>
>>It seems odd that Olin would recommend littering the waterway
>>with old toxic trash.
>
>Um, maybe I'm missing something, but what happens to the "toxic trash" when
>a flare is used normally for its intended purpose?  It seems to me that the
>waste products will end up in the air and water regardless (ultimately).

Yes, you are missing something.  When the flare is used for its intended
purpose then there in an emergency situation in progress, generally one
in which loss of human life is a possibility.  The human community has
decided that a wee bit of toxic trash is insignificant to save such life.

On the other hand, the same community tends not to condone dumping such
toxic trash simply because one doesn't know what else to do with it.

-not me, I was in church that day...
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 2 Sep 1992 15:03:13 GMT
Organization: Invictus
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

Several Right Coasters write:

...[various raves about the wind last weekend removed]...

It's funny you had such good wind last weekend.  Here, in San Francisco Bay, the
wind was unusually light.  It didn't get over about 25 knots all weekend and it
even rained on Saturday.  I even thought about using my 150% genny, but that's 
for winter sailing.

Dudley
.
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: advice for Hobie mast repair.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: US
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:26:31 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats

In article <1992Sep1.182224.19573@morrow.stanford.edu>,
GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) wrote:
>
> The cast aluminum plug at the base of the mast has come loose, the
> rivets have torn out.  Is there some reason I shouldn't put some
> spot aluminum welds on it to reattach plug?

It's better to re-rivet it. That way if some work ever needs doing inside
the mast all anyone needs to do is drill out the rivets. The rivets are
only there to hold the butt in place and perform no structural duties.

Drill 3/16" holes between the old rivet holes and install new pop-rivets.
If the old ones are still in place you may want to drill them out. If
they're so loose the drill just spins 'em, grab them with some vice-grips.
If you don't have access to a pop-rivet tool I'm sure someone at a marine
hardware store or boat yard or sail maker or rigger will let you squeeze
off a few in their parking lot. The rivets themselves are only a couple of
pennies each. You don't need monel -- aluminum will do just fine.

As an alternative to riveting, you can buy a couple of self-tapping
stainless steel screws to go where the rivets were.

And, yes, you want it to be able to drain.

  --scott
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jbs@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.b.skiendziel)
Subject: FAQ WANTED
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:05:09 GMT
Keywords: FAQ?





	Greetings!

		I was wondering if there exists a FAQ for rec.boats.
	If there is a FAQ available, could someone please forward it
	to me.  I'm particularly looking for mail order info and
	sailing info, but all info is appreciated.



	Thanks in advance!



			John B. Skiendziel


>>DISCLAIMER - The opinions expressed by no means represent those of my employer

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mike@erix.ericsson.se (Mike Williams)
Subject: Re: Depth Sounders
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:37:35 GMT

In article <24531@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, siegrist@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Frank Siegrist) writes:
|> and the only problem I've had is when a BIG (like >30 foot) power boat 
|> gets in front of me going in the narrow channel to our marina.  The 
|> display starts breaking up and the readings get erratic.  I've assumed 
|> that its due to a lot of turbulence from the power boat's props stirring
|> up the mud bottem.  The depth is about 6 feet at low water.
|> I hope this helps the original poster.

I have an old fashioned depth sounder with rotating LED's (similar to
an old Seafarer) with the transducer mounted in a little tank filled
with oil just in front on the keel. It works fine and the spread of
the reading gives me an idea of how much weed etc there is on the
bottom.

Readings get very erratic in the 10 to 20 metre range in the
late afternoons amd early evenings. Is this due layers of water at
different temperatures? Could there be more bubbles in the evening?

---Mike Williams


BTW, I sail in the Baltic - low salt content of water and no tides
and you can sometimes walk on the water in the winter :-)
From: worth@acuson.com (Douglas Worth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Performance sailboat wanted.
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:34:27 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

I would recommend and Etchells very highly. My Grandfather-in-law has one on
the bay that we have sailed out of Richmond. It is a very fast boat. Takes a
crew of three and is very fun to sail

-- 
x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Doug Worth   --  worth@acuson.com (worth@sono.sun.com, ..!sun!sono!worth)
                 415-694-5653
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Re: porta-potti
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:12:23 GMT
Summary: The law as I think it stands

In article <1992Aug27.212503.4635@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jrcodl@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>What is the status of porta potties on boats?  It seems that somewhere I've 
>heard that there are illegal.  I sail on smaller lakes that can't afford any discharge.
>John (how fitting ;-) )

   In US waters, a porta-pottie is not recognized as an MSD of any type
unless it is permanently mounted and has a fitting installed for deck
pumpout. Then it qualifies as a Type III (holding tank).
   Type I's are treat/discharge units like the Lectra-San and the SanX-1.
OK to discharge in US territorial waters except those designated as 
"no discharge" zone. These include many salt water harbors and most fresh
water lakes, including the Great Lakes.
   Type II's are like Type I's but must meet stricter standards for particle
size and bacterial count.
   Type III's are holding tanks. Illegal to dump anywhere within the 3 mile
limit. Must be pumped out a dockside or well offshore.
   Porta-Potties, because they are not permanently installed, fall between
the cracks as far as designation is concerned. You can use them anywhere in
US waters, but must either take them ashore to dump them or outside the 3
mile limit.
   Why am I always dealing with this crap? :-)

Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Chesapeake Bay Net Gathering
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:06:30 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@sandr.com (Robert Parkinson)
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

In article <l9purvINN3s8@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>In article l9pqmuINN7n7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM, dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>>I sure hope there is
>> a follow-up report.

Two requests for a follow-up report. No problem. I read so many tour
reports in rec.music.gdead, I know _just_ what it should look like.
(torturously long, and filled with minutia :-)

Bob
-- 
[ Bob Parkinson                                 S&R Software, Incorporated ]
[ bobp@sandr.com                                              410.628.9241 ]
From: kstuart@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kenneth Stuart)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:42:15 GMT
Reply-To: kstuart@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kenneth Stuart)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

>Bayliner put up or shut up contest.
>

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

Have a '81 MONTEREY, w/Volvo Penta Outdrive, 200 hp V8, 23 ft.  Have
owned the boat for about 5 years.

No outdrive problems.  Engine had warped intake (NOT exhaust) valve
on one cylinder when I got it (abuse by former owner?), but has been
a great performer since repair.  Usual degradation of vinyl upholstery
due to sunshine.  No indications of any hull problems, even tho it has
had the usual dings and bumps normally encountered in a 10+ year old
boat.

I do not like the interior layout of the cabin.  This was changed by
Bayliner in the mid-80's, however, to add much more storage and better use of
space.

Repair outfits have told me that the Volvo Penta power plant was the
ultimate as far as reliability, and that when Bayliner switched to another
manufacturer (OMC?) that more service problems arose.  I can't personally
attest to this, except to state that the only problems I have had with
the outdrive cannot be blamed on Bayliner/Volvo - The former owner *NEVER*
lubed the bearings on the drive shaft of the engine, and water leakage
into the driveshaft boot caused replacement of the universal bearings
(no biggie).

Basically, I can say that I have been quite satisfied.  I think that
since Bayliner seems to have an enormous sales volume, I would guess
that lots of other boaters share my feelings of satisfaction.

Happy Boating!

Ken Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.boats