From:     Will Martin <wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: Phonetic alphabet corrected
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:05:52 GMT


From     Will Martin <wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil>

Hre are some phonetic alphabet discussions I culled from the hams list
back some years ago; enjoy!:

|Date: 1 Jul 90 18:15:08 GMT
|From: portal!cup.portal.com!wordy@apple.com  (Steven K Roberts)
|Subject: Phonetic Alphabet
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|Ah, the fanatic alphabet... let's see if I remember it....
|
|Aisle
|Bdelium
|Czar
|Djakarta
|Eulogy
|Fanatic
|Gnat
|Hour
|Iwo Jima
|Juanita
|Knob
|Llama
|Mnemonic
|Ngwee
|Oedipus
|Pneumonia
|Qatar
|Rwanda
|Szold
|Tzar
|Urn
|Veldt
|Wright
|  (or was that Wrong?)
|Xylophone
|Yttrium
|Zweiback.
|
|I've found these very useful over the years, if not to clarify
|communication, at least to extend it.
|
|   Steve Roberts
|   Nomadic Research Labs
|
|Date: 13 Jul 90 01:37:36 GMT
|From: hpda!hpcuha!nicholso@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Ron Nicholson)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|When listening to DX stations I've been hearing a seemingly standard
|phonetic alphabet, different from the published International Phonetic
|Alphabet.  The letters that I've seen used are:
|
|A America
|G Germany
|I Italy
|J Japan
|K Kilowatt
|M Mexico
|N Norway
|R Radio
|U United
|W Washinton
|Y Yokohama
|
|Is this a defacto international standard?  What are the words for the
|rest of the letters?
|====
|Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr.		Hewlett Packard
|uucp: nicholso@hpda.HP.COM 		Cupertino, CA
|(408) 447-6603				#include <canonical disclaimer>
|KK6MP (formerly N6YWU)			private pilot ASEL 151 hours
|
|Date: 13 Jul 90 18:03:17 GMT
|From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!oo7@ucsd.edu  (Constructive Frivolling)
|Subject: phonetics
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|I think most of these come from the earlier phonetic list that was in
|use more than 20 years ago (at least, my G call in the mid-60s was
|Germany 3 Norway   Mexico Xray, whereas now it would be
|Golf    3 November Mike   Xray).
|
|I don't think these are so bad to use - in fact, I have to think hard
|whether I is now India or Italy, and whether U is Uniform or United.
|
|In fact, I suggest that some of them are better than what we use now.
|"Mike" is not nearly as clear as "Mexico" (I suppose the argument is
|that there are only 2 single-syllable phonetics at the moment, and
|there is rarely confusion between Mike and Golf).  Our club call is
|W5EHM, quite often if I use Whiskey 5 Echo Hotel Mexico (instead of
|Mike), then someone who hears me only weakly will say "who's the 
|station with Mexico in the call?"   Same thing (I think) with
|Kilowatt as against Kilo.  It also makes sense to use T = Tokyo
|in the Japan DX contests :-)    I believe H = Hotel is a bad one,
|since in many countries the stress is on the second syllable, with 
|the H not even sounded.  In some cases, Hotel can sound strangely 
|like Alpha - I listened to what I thought was a 9A station for a long 
|time (strong signal) before it dawned on me that it was 9H (the clues 
|were (1) there aren't any 9As, and (2) the guy said "on the island of 
|Malta" eventually :-) ).
|
|Anyway, the ones listed by the poster are in common use, and while the
|purists may frown on them, they are a whole lot better than those "cute" 
|ones that, along with CB expressions, 10-10 numbers given in dollars and 
|cents, callsigns "for ID" and other abominations drive many of us up the 
|wall - or, in my case, back to the relative peace of CW :-) 
|
|Derek Wills (AA5BT, G3NMX)
|Department of Astronomy, University of Texas, 
|Austin TX 78712.  (512-471-1392)
|oo7@astro.as.utexas.edu 
|oo7@emx.utexas.edu
|
|Date: 13 Jul 90 22:59:44 GMT
|From: netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!depolo@rutgers.edu  (Jeff DePolo)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|As far as I know, they aren't any sort of a standard.  Some of them sort
|of make sense because they are easier to pick out than the standard
|phonetics, especially when a heavily-accented voice is saying them.
|The ones that use geographic names are particularly useful.  It's pretty
|hard to make "America" sound like anything other than "America", regardless
|of the accent.  At least to me it is.  Here's a slightly expanded list
|of some of the more common ones I hear on a regular basis.
|
|A America, Alaska, Atlantic	N Nancy, Norway
|B Boston, Baker			O Ocean, Ontario
|C Canada			P Peter, Portugal, Portugal
|D Dog, Denmark			Q none that I can think of
|E Edward, England		R Radio, Russia
|F Frank, Fox, Frequency		S Santiago, Spain
|G Germany, George		T Texas, Tokyo
|H Honolulu, Henry		U Uncle, United
|I Italy, Ida, Item		V Victory
|J Japan				W Washington, William, Willy
|K Kilowatt, Kentucky		X none that I can think of
|L Lincoln, London		Y Yellow, Yokohama
|M Mexico			Z Zanzibar
|
|Note that some of them (e.g. Frank, George, Ida, etc.) come from the public
|safety standard.  If you look at a full list of the public safety ones
|(Adam, Boy, Charles, etc.) you'll notice that most of them are very
|short - and many are American first names.  I'm guessing that this
|was done because most police/fire/rescue communications are done on
|local FM frequencies where long phonetics are not needed to make
|them more distinguisable.  Plus the shorter ones take less time to say.
|
|Personally, I prefer some of the "alternate" phonetics.  I usually use 
|the standard phonetics, but if copy is real difficult and the standard
|ones don't cut it the first time, I'll use some of the alternates
|in the hope that they will be more recognizable to the receving station,
|particularly when it's a DX contact with a person that seems to know
|English as a second language.
|							--- Jeff
|+====================---+==================================================---+
|| Jeff DePolo N3HBZ/AA  | Internet: depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu               |
|| Univ. of Pennsylvania | RF: 146.685- 224.40- 442.70+ 144.455s (Philadelpia) |
|| Computer Science Eng. | Twisted pair: (215) 386-7199 home                   |
||     Class of 1991     | Carrier pigeon: 420 South 42nd St. Philly, PA 19104 |
|+====================---+==================================================---+
|
|Date: 14 Jul 90 21:35:30 GMT
|From: cs.utexas.edu!texbell!helps!bongo!julian@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Julian Macassey)
|Subject: phonetics
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|	Back in the old days when men were men and aeroplanes had propellers, 
|every nation had its own phonetics. Each nation was proud of its 
|phonetics and each service in each nation just to prove they were made 
|of stern stuff had their own phonetics. This was so pilots with hairy 
|chests would not be confused with effete ambulance drivers. Telephone 
|operators each had their own national set of phonetics that each girl 
|was proud to know and happy to impart to a frustrated caller.
|
|	But then Hitler lost the war and they took the propellers off planes. 
|Someone found out that if you took the propellers away they went 
|faster and further. This meant that planes could now fly to foreign 
|lands and instead of dropping Dupont Chemicals encased in steel, they 
|landed and people got out and wandered around looking for honest cab drivers.
|
|	This if course caused much confusion with air traffic controllers. 
|They now had to be nice to people who were a few years earlier 
|shooting at them. So instead of all planes being "George Able ..." 
|They now had funny foreign planes with foreign pilots to deal with. 
|Much confusion here. So the ICAO (International Civil Aviation 
|Organisation) formed a committee to draft some international 
|phonetics. Some that all countries could use. They chose words that 
|were common to most languages. Hence Tango, Delta, Golf, Hotel etc. 
|They left out some other international words like Girl, Bar, Sexy, 
|Taxi and Dollar. But maybe they didn't want to offend the air hostesses.
|
|	These phonetics were such a success that they were soon adopted by 
|NATO. Some countries refer to these phonetics as "NATO Code". NATO of 
|course had a similar problem. People who spoke different languages and 
|used to shoot at each other now needed to communicate over radios and 
|telephones. The telephone people liked it too as international calls 
|were becoming more common. Large 50 circuit undersea cables were being 
|installed and operators now had to put up with all sorts of shifty 
|foreigners making phone calls. So the ITU, adopted these phonetics as 
|did CCITT and CCIR.
|
|	So now they are the correct phonetics to use anywhere in the free 
|world and are pretty much understood in the unfree parts too. Of 
|course there were provincial police departments, phone companies etc 
|who considered the ICAO code to be part of the Metric system 
|conspiracy and stuck to the old way. Then some people have never 
|figured out why anyone would want to use phonetics and make 'em up as 
|they go along. If you do make them up, it is essential that you never 
|use the same word twice, as may lead to improved understanding.
|
|	So simply, if you want a hotel clerk in Adis Abeba to get your name 
|right use the phonetics he probably learned at school. They much 
|better than shouting and using the phonetics the good ol' boys in the 
|sheriffs dept use.
|-- 
|Julian Macassey, n6are  julian@bongo.info.com  ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian
|N6ARE@K6IYK (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495
|
|Date: 16 Jul 90 12:39:40 GMT
|From: cs.utexas.edu!helios!billg@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (William Gunshannon)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|>The ones that use geographic names are particularly useful.  It's pretty
|>hard to make "America" sound like anything other than "America", regardless
|>of the accent.  At least to me it is.  Here's a slightly expanded list
|>of some of the more common ones I hear on a regular basis.
|
|But the same isn't necessarily true if you are the person with the heavy accent.
|
|>F Frank, Fox, Frequency		S Santiago, Spain
|
|This is the line I was waiting for.
|Spain is only valid to english speaking people.  Others don't call it that.
|In germany it is Espana (sp?) and when I lived over there I saw a few cases
|of the pen moving faster than the thought processes.  A person would say 
|"Washington 3 Norway Spain Italy" and the guy on the receiving end would
|write, without realizing it, "W3NEI".  Because people in the US learn so
|little about their neighbors in the rest of the world, we tend to assume
|they do everything the same as we do.  Unfortunately (for us) they don't.
|I can give you  other examples but I hope by now you get the point.  Using
|anything other than legitimate standards for international communications
|is just asking for a misunderstanding.  Keep that in mind when you send in 
|your QSL for Albania and the QSL Manager says "sorry, your not in the logs."
|
|bill  KB3YV
|
|Date: 16 Jul 90 13:45:28 GMT
|From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!depolo@ucsd.edu  (Jeff DePolo)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|>Spain is only valid to english speaking people.  Others don't call it that.
|
|>Keep that in mind when you send in 
|>your QSL for Albania and the QSL Manager says "sorry, your not in the logs."
|                                                               _
|I realize that Spain is probably useless - in Spanish it's Espana.  That
|one is probably a bad example - I was just naming a few of the ones
|I've heard, and said I preferred _some_of them, Spain definately not being
|one of them. However, I have heard it used by DX stations in countries 
|where English is not customarily the common language.  Why, I don't know.
|
|By the way, already have a card from Albania  ;-)
|
|QRZ DX from Nasty Three Kinky Zebra
|							--- Jeff
|+====================---+==================================================---+
|| Jeff DePolo N3HBZ/AA  | Internet: depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu               |
|| Univ. of Pennsylvania | RF: 146.685- 224.40- 442.70+ 144.455s (Philadelpia) |
|| Computer Science Eng. | Twisted pair: (215) 386-7199 home                   |
||     Class of 1991     | Carrier pigeon: 420 South 42nd St. Philly, PA 19104 |
|+====================---+==================================================---+
|
|Date: 16 Jul 90 18:19:23 GMT
|From: pikes!udenva!mercury.cair.du.edu!isis!nbires!stcvax!gin@boulder.colorado.edu  (George Noyes)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|I don't believe there is a universally agreed upon Phonetic Alphabet but
|many countries do require and/or test their amateurs for use of the
|locally defined/approved Phonetic Alphabet.  I know of Japan atleast
|tests the hams, this is perhaps the main reason all the Japanese stations
|use the same Phonetics.  
|
|As an aside, I wish the Japanese would use something different than
|"Florida" for "F" in the DX contests (its virtually impossible to
|understand Florida with their accent....)
|
|Date: 16 Jul 90 20:56:07 GMT
|From: att!watmath!watserv1!utgpu!utzoo!mnetor!ghp!jim@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Jim Stewart)
|Subject: phonetics (especially for ve3yz)
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|> Back in the old days when men were men and aeroplanes had propellers, 
|> But then Hitler lost the war and they took the propellers off planes. 
|
|...now they only wear them on their heads...:-)
|-- 
|Jim Stewart, VE3SRJ
|UUCP:  jim%ghp@mnetor.uucp
|BELL:  (416)862-0430
|
|Date: 17 Jul 90 01:49:03 GMT
|From: hpda!hpcuha!nicholso@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Ron Nicholson)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|I found where some other phonetic alphabet words came from.
|Listed as Spanish Phonetics, on page 17-16 of "The ARRL Operating Manual",
|1990 edition:
|
|America		Norvega
|Brasil		Ontario
|Canada		Portugal
|Dinamarca	Quito
|Espana		Roma
|Francia		Santiago
|Grenada		Toronto
|Holanda		Uniforme
|Italia		Victoria
|Japon		Washington
|Kilowatio	Xilofono
|Lima		Yucatan
|Mejico		Zelandia
|
|BTW, although the Operating Manual seems to have lots of stuff on
|DX awards and contesting; as a new ham, I found it very skimpy on basic
|operating procedures.
|====
|KK6MP (formerly N6YWU)
|Ronald H. Nicholson, Jr.		Hewlett Packard
|uucp: nicholso@hpda.HP.COM 		Cupertino, CA
|(408) 447-6603				#include <canonical disclaimer>
|
|Date: 18 Jul 90 03:02:43 GMT
|From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!texbell!helps!bongo!julian@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Julian Macassey)
|Subject: alternate phonetic alphabets
|To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
|
|> I don't believe there is a universally agreed upon Phonetic Alphabet but
|> many countries do require and/or test their amateurs for use of the
|> locally defined/approved Phonetic Alphabet.  
|  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|   I hope not. 
|>I know of Japan at least
|> tests the hams, this is perhaps the main reason all the Japanese stations
|> use the same Phonetics.  
|	Really? kinda worrying if that means pilots, air traffic controllers, 
|Ships helmsmen and such make em up as they go along (-:
|> 
|> As an aside, I wish the Japanese would use something different than
|> "Florida" for "F" in the DX contests (its virtually impossible to
|> understand Florida with their accent....)
|
|	Of course they could use the ICAO standard "Foxtrot" But maybe the 
|Japanese don't foxtrot, maybe they don't Tango either. I hope they at 
|least Lambada.
|
|Yours in a perpetual quest for international standards and understanding.
|-- 
|Julian Macassey, n6are  julian@bongo.info.com  ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian
|N6ARE@K6IYK (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495

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