HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Japanese Women's Lib
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:44:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: netlink.es78iB1w164w
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Robert Sheaffer writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.170914.5394@news.lrz-muenchen.de> 
TRINGHAM@usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Tringham, Neal) writes:
>>
>>The only Japanese I have ever personally known was a woman. She hated the
>>society from top to bottom, starting with `attitudes towards women' and
>>working up to `attitudes towards foreigners' via `company practices' and
>>`how to say what you really think'. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I
>
>Maybe that's why she emigrated? 
 
Likely as not, she immigrated to the U.S., became liberated and
with her eyes opened, began her new life as a Modern Woman.
 
A Japanese woman who hung out with Laurie Anderson and that crowd up
in NYC told me that after she had lived in the U.S. for a while, she 
had a dream in which she was flying through the sky when suddenly her 
body was blown into little bits that scattered everywhere.  They 
reassembled themselves into a new body, but it wasn't the same -- she 
had ceased being a Japanese woman and had become (drum roll)
An American Woman.
 
Yeah, her house was a mess, the kids were brats and she was full of
stories about how oppressive Japan was to women.
 
At the time she told me these stories, I was starting a business
with her husband and another partner.  Unbeknownst to her husband or 
to me, she was fucking this third partner like a mink whenever we 
weren't around.  Needless to say, the business eventually failed.
 
Somehow I don't think this is the way the Japanese came into their 
economic hegemony.

--                    
INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!nosc!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 435-6181
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct
From: bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger)
Subject: Re: Men Are Not Cost Effective
Organization: Univ. of South Carolina, Columbia
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:06:37 GMT

In <53798@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> jan@oliveb.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Jan Parcel) writes:

>Are y'all serious?

>Face it -- if you want to "simplify" about white men, you're extremist, if
>you want to "simplify" about black people or women or anybody else, you're 
>conservative.

>If you consider pregnancy-related absences an abnormal expense in business, 
>you're conservative, if you consider alcoholism or heart-attack absences an 
>abnormal expense in business, you're extremist.  

>Time is the only factor in deciding which label to apply.

	Precisely. And even time only factors in IF we
	keep working for change.
	
	Bev
-- 
-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Just read his lips:
Now, he wants us to believe in the "tooth fairy".
-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
From: mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: The Getting Screwed Saga...
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:07:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: galileo.1992Apr14.210708.9397
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


	Wow! That was indeed a Saga. If it makes you feel any better,
I've been screwed by the same girl since HS at least half a dozen times.
Well, she managed to affect that many of my relationships. And yes, my last
relationship ended a couple of months ago. This time it was a bit better
though. She did not screw up the my relationship with this girl, I screwed
it up myself. Ahhh... I must be improving...NOT! Hmmm... I guess my last
girlfriend was right. Telling someone "I love you" is your way of giving 
them permission to screw you over. Any comments? (sorry S.G.)

						Mikeey

PS Sorry dudes, can't share personal experiences on the Net. At least,
   not till I get settled. Yeah, I'm new. What's your problem?  #:-)
Xref: sparky soc.men:8101 soc.women:8678
From: chpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Is this a case of sex discrimination?
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:54:40 GMT
Reply-To: chpetk@uk.ac.bath.gdr (Toby Kelsey)
Organization: School of Chemistry, University of Bath, UK

In <702281010@lear.cs.duke.edu> gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit) writes:

>The newspaper comments that:
>#Male offenders, who are supervised by the county Probation Department,
>#must serve at least half their sentences before becoming eligible for
>#home surveillance unless otherwise ordered by a judge.  Women are
>#under no such policy.

>1) Is this policy sexism against men?

In article <1992Apr6.173803.9526@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu> bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger) writes:

>	If "the county Probation Dept"
>	is predominantly controlled by people who
>	happen to men AND the judges are predominantly
>	people who happen to be men AND the laws were
>	put into place mostly by people who happen
>	to be men...
>
>	Then NO, this is not sexism against men, This

I think you are wrong.  Whether something is sexist does
not depend on who does it.

The best definition is: sexism = sexual discrimination

>	A lot of people get confused in the heat of
>	discussion and forget these basic tenets.

Do you think a company which refuses to employ
women for no justifiable reason is not being
sexist if job applications are handled by a woman?

      Toby

-- 
Toby Kelsey
School of Chemistry,  # JANET: chpetk@uk.ac.bath.gdr, otherwise
University of Bath.   # chpetk%gdr.bath.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
From: pmmuggli@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Pauline M Muggli)
Subject: Re: Maternity Leave and Child Benefits
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:00:28 GMT

  repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
>  ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:
>>> i don't know, the attribution was missing
 
>>>>In a properly structured society, having a kid should be absolutely
>>>>the last thing a poor person would think of doing.  Anything else
>>>>should be more worth doing.  A kid is a really major expense, and
>>>>a system which helps poor people afford this expense is really
>>>>twisted in my view.
 
>For *really* poor people, having children is not an expense, it's a way to 
>add to the family's income and prospects for the future.  We middle class
>people see children as "expensive," as non-workers; in most Third World
>nations this is not the case.  Among poor people in the U.S., the rate of

not only in the 3rd world.  the was a time not too long ago when
large families were necessary to work a family farm.  for
example, my grandfather was one of 18 (yes, that's eighteen)
children.  they weren't thought of as an expense, but as another
pair of hands to help out with the housework, gardening, animals
or field work.  i would tend to make the division based more on
urban/rural.  as times have gone on, the number per family has
also, but we have also become an urban family.

>child labor is much lower, but children are still not the expense that they
>are in middle-class families, because many of the things that we consider
>essential to childhood are not provided for them.  Some families pool the
>resources of all their members to send one child to college and/or professional
>school so that s/he can then help out the family as a whole.  Children are
>only "expensive" from a certain point of view; they may also support their
>parents later in life.

and by families here you can include extended families from
grandparents on down through cousins.
 
>There are also all sorts of cultural and religious reasons for preferring 
>large families.  Those values are not my own, but I think they need to be 
>respected and taken seriously, not dismissed as irrational.

i agree.

pauline
pmmuggli@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   (the univ. of oklahoma) 
  	- standard disclaimer - 

Xref: sparky soc.men:8340 soc.women:8875
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Men Are Not Cost Effective
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:39:31 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics

In article <8130@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>setenv SARCASM ON
>
>If women don't want to get pregnant, they shouldn't have sex.
>
..........or get raped.

>K'Char

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: woman's choice of bio father in marriage
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:44:51 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Apr16.210751.20741@u.washington.edu> jbrown@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeffery Brown) writes:
>To me, letting the woman have the option to covertly choose biological
>fathers voids most of the reasons men should enter a marriage contract.

	Well, gee, *we* got married because we realized that we were
stronger together than we were seperately.  We got married because we
couldn't stand to be apart.  We got married because we're both great in
bed :-)  We got married because just holding hands makes us smile into
each other's eyes, and we figured that being married meant we'd have more
time to hold hands with each other.

	Why marriage instead of "just" living together?  Well, we had a 
common law marriage, but found that different places treated it differently.
For instance, one insurance company would give us a cheaper rate because
we were married, and one would charge us more because we were single.  Her
employer would cover me under the medical plan, but *mine* wouldn't
cover *her*.  Anyway, we got neat presents after the ceremony. :-)

	Oh yeah, the point:  What do any of those reasons have to do
with whose babies she has?  Why should I care?  Disregarding ego issues
(talk about _primitive_!) of "Ugg.  Mog want own son. Uggh.".

>for basically uncompensated indebture.  

	Mmmmm.  If all you got out of marriage was copies of (half)
your genetic material that would crawl around and puke on the rug I'd
have stayed single.
					"He could pass his time,
					 around some other line.
					 But you know he chose this place
					 beside her."
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Q the fake
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 01:18:12 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <HROSE.92Apr13204820@rocza.eff.org> hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:
#I'm curious to know why so many people believe "Q" is a male. Is it
#because Q has a similar posting style to many of the male.bozos on
#soc.women, or just because of gender bias?
#
#Think over carefully before answering....

I thought that Q was a man because he posted that he'd had
a vasectomy.  

Susan
Xref: sparky soc.men:8532 soc.women:9056 talk.abortion:15565
From: stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Loser, Loser, who's the loser (was: You want to win(Men's rights and Women's rights).
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:34:33 GMT
Distribution: na

Alison Rebecca Colman never learned about responsibility, apparently:

+ > Charles Herrick spews:
+ 
+ >Sounds like your girlfriend is the loser. After all she
+ >1) decided to involve herself with a loser
+ >2) hopped into bed (or was it the backseat of a car) with the loser
+ >3) didn't take responsibility for birth control
+ >4) got pregnant by the loser
+ >5) and carried the loser's child to full term
+ > 
+ >Now she's paying for her poor judgement.
+ > 
+ >Don't ask me to feel sorry for her, when she's the one who's the  
+ >loser.
+ 
+ Will someone please translate the above statement for me? I don't speak
+ asshole. thanks.

No problemo. Basically, if you stick your face into a buzz saw, you shouldn't
be too surprised it gets chewed up. 

It comes to *personal*responsibility*. Sure, she's in a bad situation, but
she's there BY HER OWN CHOICES. Because one has the right to choose, one
is not gifted with infallability. She made her mistakes, and now she has
to live with them. Complaining gets her not one iota further down the road.

It may make her feel better, tho...

K'Char
From: TRINGHAM@usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Tringham, Neal)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Maternity Leave and Child Benefits
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:22:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr11.152254.4507
Organization: University Observatory Munich, FRG
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Apr7.000558.29044@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu writes:

> In article <1992Apr6.193638.8243@news.lrz-muenchen.de> TRINGHAM@usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Tringham, Neal) writes:
> >Um, in a sense. NHS hospitals offer improved non-essential services (eg
> >single rooms) to people who pay for them, and there is a private system
> >as well. However, unless your employer pays for private health insurance
> >you're unlikely to actually use the private system for anything other than
> >minor medicine (eg wart surgery) unless you're very wealthy indeed.
> 
> Well, I know someone who needed hip surgery and was in a good deal of pain.
> For $6000 she could have jumped the queue, but she didn't have $6000.  I
> wouldn't call $6000 "very wealthy indeed".
> 

It's not a question of whether you have $6000, but of whether you have $6000
available to spend on buying a year free from pain (at least in the absence
of effective painkillers). Perhaps we have different definitions of `very
wealthy'. How about `only the richest 10% or so of the population is
likely to use private medicine for anything other than minor surgery, unless
they have private insurance'. 

Neal Tringham
Xref: sparky soc.men:8569 talk.abortion:15678
From: annan@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.men,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: pro-choice == pro-(womens' only) choice?
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:18:36 GMT
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <8247@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, pepke@ds1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
> In article <1992Apr11.182317.5404@vax.oxford.ac.uk> annan@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>In Oxford, a few years ago, a female student got pregnant. She wanted an
>>abortion, her boyfriend did not because of his christian beliefs (mind you, if
>>he was really a christian, what was he doing sleeping with her anyway? But
>>that's not the point). He went to court to try to prevent the abortion. He
>>lost. Fair?
> 
> Sure, I think so.  She should have veto power over her pregnancy.  What is
> wrong is when she has the child and makes him pay one-quarter of his pre-
> tax income over the next twenty-two years, *plus* all medical expenses and one-
> half of schooling expenses, for a child that he may not even get a chance to 
> see. 
> 
> -EMP

Sorry, the followup I've had suggests that I was not clear enough in my
original post. The point I was trying to make was precisely the one Eric makes
above. Also, the student involved had offered to adopt the child at birth (as I
remember).

-- 
James Annan.
                [--------------------------------------]
                [  "The only good Tory is a lavatory"  ]
                [--------------------------------------]
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 13:29:15 EDT
From: Jennifer Brown <JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: You want to win(Men's rights and Women's rights).
Distribution: na
 <1992Apr14.134630.4326@news.nd.edu>

>>
>>Then men and women are even: no choice whatsoever.
>
>Not necessarily.  It is my understanding that when a
>child is born out of wedlock, the mother's consent is
>the only one necessary to place the child up for
>adoption.
>
Not necessarily.  If there's a father listed on the birth
certificate, and he knows he has a child, he can fight to
become the custodial parent and can also sue the mother for
child support monies.  True, if the father doesn't know, he
can't fight for the kid, and the mom would be the only parent.
-Jennifer
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash)
Subject: Re: Maternity Leave and Child Benefits 
Originator: dash@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:05:58 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.193638.8243@news.lrz-muenchen.de> TRINGHAM@usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Tringham, Neal) writes:
>In <1992Apr6.053700.6260@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu writes:

>> Yes, this is true to a large extent.  Regarding Canada vs. Europe, my
>> understanding about the British health care system (only a small data point)
>> is that it is a *two-tier* system so the gov't can afford to cut costs
>> without alienating the wealthy, who can afford upper tier care.  
>
>Um, in a sense. NHS hospitals offer improved non-essential services (eg
>single rooms) to people who pay for them, and there is a private system
>as well. However, unless your employer pays for private health insurance
>you're unlikely to actually use the private system for anything other than
>minor medicine (eg wart surgery) unless you're very wealthy indeed.

Well, I know someone who needed hip surgery and was in a good deal of pain.
For $6000 she could have jumped the queue, but she didn't have $6000.  I
wouldn't call $6000 "very wealthy indeed".

>>The
>> Canadian system is a *one-tier* system so the gov't has to spend sufficiently
>> much more to avoid pissing off the wealthy.  Hence the deficit.
>> 
>
>Really? The Canadian deficit is solely due to their health service? Are
>you sure? I would have expected (eg) unemployment insurance and/or Keynesian
>public works programmes to be contributory factors at the very least. 

I'm sure these are factors.

>Incidentally, does this mean that there is NO private medicine in Canada? 

Yes.
-- 
David W. Ash               | "What profits a man if he keeps his eternal soul
ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu |  when he could have lived life to the full and
HOME: (415) 497-1629       |  been forgiven at the end of it all anyway?"
WORK: (415) 725-3859       |         --David Merritt, a.k.a. THE RED SHARK
Xref: sparky soc.men:8561 soc.women:9079 talk.abortion:15646
From: baba@Tymnet.COM (Duane Hentrich)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Women for Nerdy White Males?
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:42:27 GMT
Reply-To: baba@Tymnet.COM (Duane Hentrich)
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: BT Tymnet Inc., San Jose CA

In article <RXuDJB1w164w@netlink.cts.com>, (Jim Bowery) writes:
|> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
|> > In article <1559@tymix.Tymnet.COM> (Duane Hentrich) writes:
|> > >In article <Ry2BJB1w164w@netlink.cts.com>, (Jim Bowery) 
|> > >|> For all you nerdy white males out there, here are some services
|> > >|> that might be of interest (advertised in a southern californian 
|> > >|>  "singles" tabloid -- can't vouch for these folks):
|> > >Do you sit around and try to think up ways to insult men? Or am I 
|> > >missing the smilies somewhere?
|> > 	Why would would you take it as an insult?
|> The explanation is most probably that he is one of the few remaining
|> white males who hasn't yet realized that the adjective "nerdy" is 
|> most descriptive of the way the rest of the culture perceives him.

Actually the word that most people would use to describe me is impolite
in mixed company, and since you don't work for my company I can't tell
you.

Anyway 'culture' didn't promulgate the use of the word 'nerd' nor of the
word 'hippy' and others. The media, a small part of the culture, did that.

The word I'm most concerned about however isn't nerd, it's male.

|> Most of us don't take it as insulting because we're totally inured to 
|> it, even accepting of it... sort of like black males don't mind being 
|> called "nigger" if they're raised as slaves in the deep south.  The

This is cute. I've asked before and I'll ask again. Why use the objectifying
word 'male' rather than the common term for the adult non-female of our
species.

The use of language as a tool of power is not restricted to our leaders.

The level to which I am inured to insulting characterizations is not
the point in question. The question is why do you insist upon using
negative, emotionally laden phrases to push your agenda. Since you also do
this in regards to women being 'whores' by your Humptey Dumptey 
standards I guess it's not sexism ;^).

|> There's Real Money to be made in this market.

Is capitalism the driving force behind your view of reality? Mixed with
a bit of theoretical christianity?

Gee, and I thought you were an idealist. ;^)

-- 
d'baba Duane M. Hentrich	...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!baba
                                         baba@Tymnet.Com
Warning: Expicit Thoughts
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy)
Subject: Re: pro-choice == pro-(womens' only) choice?
Organization: DigiBoard Incorporated, Eden Prairie, MN
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 19:22:16 GMT

gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.201740.8708@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu> bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger) writes:
>>	Maybe you could answer a couple questions for
>>	me. If one aspect for the woman is whether
>>	she wants a fetus to be in her body, then
>>	what is the analogous choice for the potential
>>	father?

>The point is that an unwanted pregnancy can destroy a man's life.

[usual argument from Hillel deleted]

Hillel, am I ever going to get an answer from you about the
traffic accident analogy?  You know, where the driver of the
car hits a pedestrian and later wants to limit his liability
so charges of manslaughter don't "destroy his life" (because
the pedestrian's family wants to make a medical decision he
disagrees with; discontinue life support).  The driver wanted
to either require life support or cut off his liability, but
the courts (yes, this was a real ca
From: tjw@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: There's MEN, MYN, and now MEHN!
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:59:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I was recently asked who ENYA (of alt.music.enya) was.  I've done a little
research and found some of her albums being sold in a feminist record
catalogue.  Apparently, she is a Celtic Feminist Artist.  (Interesting
combination).

But while I was looking through this feminist record catalogue, I came upon
a listing of "mehn's music".  Finally I found out what "mehn" are.
They are "men" who are "feminist oriented" and have "learned how they
have oppressed womyn".

So for all you "mehn" out there, in search of a label, you now have one.

Now if these womyn could only meet some REAL MEHN. ;-)

Terry "laugh while you can, monkey-bohy" Wood
Newsgroups: alt.child-support.alt.dads-rights,soc.men,soc.women,msic.kids
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Angela Davis:  What's she up to these days...
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:07:29 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Apr10.174728.12309@petunia.csc.calpoly.edu> dgross@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Dave Gross) writes:
>	to speak in a few days and I want to know what to expect.

	Cordite?  C4? Armored car heists ?

	:-)