HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Delray Brooks, O'Bannon Overhyped Prospects
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 03:09:47 GMT
Keywords: brooks o'bannon hype

anderson@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (anderson peter john) writes:

>As to incredibly over-hyped hoops prospects, how about:

>1. Antoine Joubert
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	While Joubert wasn't the superstar he was all hyped up to be --
	he was a 3 year starter, and did score his share of his points on
	some VERY STRONG Michigan teams (which included players like Gary
	Grant, Roy Tarpley, Tim McCormick, and Richard Rellford among
	others).  I once heard a rumor about Joubert -- that at 6'5", he
	couldn't dunk.  Is this true?

>2. Marcus Liberty
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	The jury's still out on Liberty.  He had one good season for the
	Illini (averaging about 18ppg) and is now the starting small
	forward for the Denver Nuggets.  He was tagged by former coach
	Paul Westhead as having "superb potential".  He really is still
	a young stallion -- and even though he hasn't become the superstar
	that he was hyped up to be -- he seems to be on the track to
	becoming a solid NBA player.

>3. J.R. Reid
    ^^^^^^^^^
	While Reid has been anything but great in the pros -- Reid was a
	force in college.  He was named unaminously a 1st team All-American
	his sophomore season.  He did have a solid career at UNC -- with
	his junior season only cut short because of injuries.  U might
	classify Reid as great in college, dud in the pros.  Put Terry
	Mills and Rex Chapman in this category as well (interesting enough,
	Mills, Reid, and Chapman were listed as the top 3 high school
	seniors coming out in 1986!).

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: hajel@engin.umich.edu (john hajel)
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard: taking money?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 14:52:26 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Keywords: Investigation to Michigan Basketball

In article <1992Aug28.005544.17334@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby) writes:
>martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>
>>According to the latest reports, the NCAA is not going to investigate. It
>>was within their regulations. 
>>BTW, it was not Howard that was involved, it was Eric Riley.
>
>>Thank God it was just someone trying to strat something bad about them...
>
>oh yes!  thank heavans!  we all know that fichigan would never 
>do *anything* to break ANY ncaa rules don't we?
>yeah right, go ask the um baseball team about rules....
>
>>					Marty
>
>::j
>
Or the Illinois basketball team....


JMH



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Versatile Teams 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 03:14:58 GMT
Keywords: How Much Do You Need?

rws@duke.cs.duke.edu (Ronnie W. Smith) writes:
[discussion on versatility as well as depth]

	If U want to talk about versatility, U need to look back no
	further back than the 1988-89 Illinois team that featured Nick
	Anderson, Kenny Battle, Kendall Gill, Steve Bardo, Lowell Hamilton,
	Marcus Liberty, Larry Smith and Ervin Small.  This is a team that 
	THRIVED on versatility and defensive pressure.  All these guys were
	6'6" and basically none of them had any set position (in fact, that
	season Marcus Liberty played all 5 positions!).  Henson could send
	in any 5 and they could reek havoc with their athletic ability.
	While basically only 8 people played all season (P.J. Bowman had
	a few good games, as well as Andy Kaufmann early in the season) --
	they still had enough gas to get to the final 4.  IMHO, this is
	perhaps the most "versatile" team college basketball had ever seen.

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Upcoming Kuppenheimer Classics
Date: 31 Aug 92 01:32:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University


What's the big idea, actually getting real teams to play in a
preseason classic?  Don't you southern folks know that you're supposed
to invite three patsies?  Just look at the Hoosier, Boilermaker, ...
"Classics."

You keep this up, and you're going to give hoops a bad name.

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
          Did you use yew boughs to make the bows to shoot the ewes?

             If I don't want it in my back yard, I don't want it.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser)
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard: taking money?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:41:40 GMT
Keywords: Investigation to Michigan Basketball

NCAA rules have changed since Steve Alford received a 1 game 
suspension for posing (free) on a charity calendar.  That penalty 
was silly, but IMO if players now get $300 to write their 
names, the rules have swung too far the other way.  You (and the 
NCAA) are certainly free to disagree.  But I attended a football  
media day last weekend where players signed autographs and had  
their pictures taken for two hours. They did it free, and seemed to 
enjoy it.  There were 120 of them, so I'm sure they are disappointed 
to learn they missed an opportunity to gross $36,000. 

What is really allowed?  My paper carried a paragraph about this case
Thursday, from AP and their own sources.

	...NCAA rules allow players to "accept legitimate and normal
	reimbursement from... organizations within the state or 100
	miles of the institution," said Steve Mallonee, the NCAA's
	director of legislative services.
		The rules specify that players cannot be paid for 
	work based on their reputation alone, he said.
					-	Unquote-

If the Michigan players weren't paid for their reputation, can someone
explain why they were paid?  What 'work' did they perform NOT based 
totally on their reputations as jocks?  None.

Also , the 'charity' designation seems misplaced here.  Rather like the
United Way national executives who did so well for themselves.  Watch  
the MDA telethon this weekend (and send your pledges).  They'll raise
tens of millions, and the performers won't get a dime.  

Plenty of athletes donate their time and receive nothing. If these hoopsters 
need money, they are eligible for very good summer jobs provided
by boosters, and supervised by their school.  And the wages earned 
are comparable to the work performed, not $75-100/hour.

On a similiar note.  Has Michigan's AD 'ruled' yet on the allegation that 
multiple players helped with 2 summer basketball camps, in violation of 
NCAA rules?  He may want to submit that report 
seperately...  

********************************************************************

John Althauser 			Dick Vitale '...everyone knows these
					        are violations.'
jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
**********************************************************************
From: jb118@prism.gatech.EDU (Jeffrey N. Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Why LSU Went
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:45:13 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute -- EOL

In article <BtzDGz.IvF@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher) writes:
>
>>(*) You can ask Dr. J why Kentucky won the SEC Tourney title game over LSU
>>(by one point) in 1953, but didn't go to the NCAA tourney.
>
>	As a admitted Kentucky fan, I ought to know this.  Either it's the
>	year they were convicted of point shaving -- or it's the year they
>	were undefeated and chose not to go to the big dance because Hagan,
>	Tsioroupolous, etc were declared ineligible because they were grad
>	students.  Could U clear this up, Dr. J?

It is your latter reason.  There were 3 UK seniors (Hagan, Ramsey, and
Tsioropoulos) who were considered to be graduate students by the NCAA.
(UK didn't consider them graduate students because they hadn't been 
allowed to play during the 1952-53 season, when UK was the first team hit
with the "Death Penalty".  The 3 players came after the probation and had
nothing to do with it).  NCAA regulations at that time prohibited grad
student participation in the tournament.  

UK compiled a 25-0 record that year (including a 73-60 win at home
over eventual NCAA champion La Salle).  Rupp decided to let the 
players vote on whether to go to the NCAAs, thinking that, since their
top 3 players wouldn't be eligible, everyone would vote no.  But only
the 3 players involved voted no, and everyone else voted to play. This
annoyed Rupp greatly, and he said something like "I am not going to let
a bunch of turds go to Kansas City and ruin our fine record.  We are not
going."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^  Dr. J(effrey Neil Burch)                 jb118@prism.gatech.edu    ^
^  Georgia Tech Research Institute                                    ^ 
^  Electro-Optics and Physical Sciences Laboratory                    ^
^  Atlanta, Ga.  A degree from the University of Life, a diploma from ^
^  30332         the School of Hard Knocks, and 3 gold stars from the ^
^  404-894-3628  Kindergarten of Getting the Shit Kicked Out of Me.   ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: gregt@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Greg Tollefson)
Subject: Re: Ohio State - Michigan B-Ball
Keywords: Big Ten Champs
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro, OR
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:36:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.110512.24412@doug.cae.wisc.edu> saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.141416.12718@cs.wayne.edu> steve@nova.eng.wayne.edu (Steve Phillips) writes:
>>Oh sure, it'll be easy for teams in the Big Ten to stop Michigan.
>>All you have to do is figure out a way to stop Webber, and Rose, and
>>King, and Howard, and somehow out-coach Steve Fisher.  An easy task.  Not.
>
>One of the above statements does not belong with the others.  Which is is?
>
>[clue - it has to do with out-coaching somebody.  Yes, I know this is an
>aaaaaaack-whumph thread, but somehow I don't relate Fischer's coaching
>ability with the other's talents]
>

My take on Fischer's coaching is based on the Loyola blowout in Tourney
a couple of years ago.  Steve somehow thought he could outrun Kimble
and Co.  Pretty lame performance by any stanndard.  

>
>Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu

Greg T.

-- 
********************************************************

But Otto, what about our relationship????
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Let's send Valvano a rsbc get well card
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:12:21 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Sep3.175452.18030@ncsu.edu>, currin@eos.ncsu.edu (RICHARD D CURRIN) writes:
> 
> Let's send Jimmy V a get well card compiled from everyones wishes. Email me
> your thoughts and I'll compile and forward them. Valvano has cancer for those
> who don't know. He reportedly receives great comfort from notes from friends
> and supporters.


Now is this supposed to be a *real* r.s.bb.c get well card? You know - the
kind where we swear and insult his mother and shit like that? or a wimpy
get well card where everyone whines like Scott Turner? 



				gln
From: blayre01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Cream-puffiness
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:52:49 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

> 
> This invites the start of a new thread.  Who's the worst when it comes to
> overall Cream-puffiness of scheduling?  Let's throw out conference play - 
> you don't have any choice about who you play there, only your overall
> membership in the conference.
> 
> I'd always taken it for granted that Georgetown was the worst at this,
> but I'd be willing to listen to arguments for other schools...
> 

I think Syracuse should also be considered.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XX                                                                 XX
XX  Brad Ayres                               Go UK Cats            XX
XX  University of Louisville                 Go Reds               XX
XX  Information and Technology               Go Cowboys            XX
XX                                           Go Bullets            XX
XX  blayre01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu                                 XX
XX                                                                 XX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser)
Subject: Re: Livingston to LSU?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:49:37 GMT

trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:

>In article <1992Aug28.141933.5779@infonode.ingr.com>, nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan) writes:
>>>Not to start a flame war or anything, but why would anyone
>>>pass up playing in the ACC to play for Dale Brown?
>> On the other hand, why would anyone pass up playing for Dale Brown to play
>>in the ACC? 

>Well, 
  
  
  Why LSU? They may not win everything people pick them for, but
  #1 high school prospects go in , and they leave as # 1 NBA 
  draft picks.   What more could Livingstone want?

  john althauser
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Shaq's impact
Date: 4 Sep 92 04:28:37 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <715440397@termite.cs.duke.edu> db@duke.cs.duke.edu (Dov Bulka) writes:
>
>A lot of talk lately about Shaq's contract and his impact on the
>pro game. Here's a thought: As far as I go back in memory I cannot
>think of a single player on that hype level that has NEVER helped
>his team past the NCAA second round. LSU never strung two 
>tournament victories in a row  during Shaq's days at LSU.
>A few names come to mind when you talk hyped up college
>players: Kareem, Walton, Ewing, Akeem, Sampson, Robinson...With the
>exception of Robinson, all these guys carried their teams to the Final
>Four.
>Even Robinson lead Navy to the round of eight as a virtual one
>man team. Shaq never even gotten close.
>
>Give me one reason to believe that he will do for his pro
>team what he couldn't do for his college.

Why is it that so many people wrap up the accomplishments of the team
into one players accomplishments.  If the team wins, then so and so is
great, if not then he's a failure.  Bird/Magic/Jordan get all the credit
for what their team does.  So does Laettner.  Of Bird/Magic/Jordan
only Jordan has one 1 future hall of famer the others have two or
more.  Laettner has Grant Hill, who's a far better ball player.

Of all the college players that you mentioned above how many of them
either didn't have a player that made it to the pros or didn't have a
group of good college players.  Singleton, I think is the only one who
has a chance as far as I can tell of making it to the pros.

Throw Shaq on a the top 1-10 teams and you get nothing less than a
final four team.  Take him off LSU and you get a very good High school
team (they are stronger than most high school kids).  Take any of those
other guys off their teams and the team is at least NIT bound.

Give the guy a break, one guy can be a god in a few games, but it takes
a team to win a series especially one that long.
>
>Dov
>-- 
>An adult child of normal parents

--
"Gotta get to the game."  "YOU'LL NEEEEED THESE."   "Dad???"
"Gotta get to the game." "Gotta get to the game." "YOU'LL NEEEEED THESE." 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Bench Depth (+ Jayhawk Notes)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 02:51:17 GMT

orourke@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Michael O'Rourke) writes:
>You'll get nothing but complete agreement from this KU fan.  There are
>a couple of line-up adjustments to make, however.  First, Richard
>Scott will play power forward; he should start at the beginning of the
>season (assuming his off-season injury has healed) and then gradually
>give way to Ben Davis as the season progresses.  Second, Sean Pearson
>-- a Prop. 48 2-guard out of Illinois -- will back Walters up.
>(Woodberry will as well, but he can also play the point and small
>forward.)  Pearson was a top 50 player out of high school, but he had
>a bit of a problem with the standardized tests.  He should make a
>contribution.  Third, Chris Davis didn't meet Prop. 48 requirements
>and has decided to enroll at Pensacola (FL) JUCO.  This is a big loss,
>as `hawk fans were hoping he would sit out the year and play next
>year.  With Richard Scott a junior and Ben Davis a sophomore KU is
>loaded at the power forward slot for a while, but it would have been
>nice to have Chris Davis (who may be better than either Scott or B.
>Davis) available next season.  Williams says he still wants Chris
>Davis to be a Jayhawk, but he will have to wait 2 years.  Fourth, Greg
>Gurley may redshirt this season.  The Jayhawks are at least 2-deep at
>every position with quality players, and playing time will be split
>rather evenly among 11 players total.

	Thanx for news straight from Jayhawk land!  You may be right
	about Richard Scott -- but he's really going to have to learn to
	shoot those FTs.  However, a Scott/Davis combo at PF is lethal,
	in my opinion.  Concerning Gurley, I think redshirting is his
	best option.  Last season, it seemed that whenever he came in,
	all he did was throw up 3-pt bricks.  He could use a little toning
	up on his overall game.  

	A question :  what ever happened to old Jayhawk recruit Chris
	Lindley?  I remember that he was one of the top HS players coming
	out of Kansas, but then had the misfortune of having his foot
	cut off by a train.  From what I last heard, he got a false foot,
	and was working out, planning to come back and play basketball
	again (in a limited role, of course) at KU?  Any new developments?

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller)
Subject: Williams Arena (was Re: Ohio State - Michigan B-Ball)
Keywords: Big Ten
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:12:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.134212.12916@cs.wayne.edu> steve@nova.eng.wayne.edu (Steve Phillips) writes:
>Can you tell me why Williams Arena looks so big on TV, and in reality is
>a little ban-box?  When I went to the Final Four, they had a dunk-three point
>exhibition there, and I thought I was in the wrong place.  I think the lighting
>there makes it look absolutely cavernous on TV.

Funny you should ask, since I just mailed my check for season tickets a couple of hours 
ago.  Williams Arena only seats around 14,000, and there are hardly any bad seats.  Maybe 
the TV cameras use a wide-angle lens to capture the feel of the arena and that gives it a 
cavernous look on TV.  Maybe there's some sort of illusion because the court itself 
is elevated a few feet (which I think sucks for the player trying to save an out-of bounds 
ball, although I've never heard of anybody getting hurt).

Whatever.  Win or lose, a game at the Barn is still the best ticket in town.  Besides, 
ESPN voted ours the best Carmel Corn in the Big 10  ;-)

DaveMac

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ...it's not funny 'til someone loses an eye.
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
mail: davem@county.lmt.mn.org | flames: alt.good.news | Opinions=mine alone
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------

Xref: sparky rec.sport.basketball.college:14555 rec.sport.basketball.pro:16610
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college,rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: which award is college basketball's Heisman Trophy?
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:37:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.college
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep03.141515.55151@uvmark.uucp>, davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
> 
> Not a flame Ed, just a point.   I don't think Ainge won the TSN POTY award
> in 81.  Ainge was a 1st teamer, but I don't think he was POTY.

	Dave's right. Ainge was NOT named POY by the TSN

>   But, does anyone have the answer to Ed's question???
> 
	Did Ed really ask a question? I don't beleive it! Say it ain't so Ed! :-)

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby)
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard: taking money?
Keywords: Investigation to Michigan Basketball
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:55:44 GMT

martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:

>According to the latest reports, the NCAA is not going to investigate. It
>was within their regulations. 
>BTW, it was not Howard that was involved, it was Eric Riley.

>Thank God it was just someone trying to strat something bad about them...

oh yes!  thank heavans!  we all know that fichigan would never 
do *anything* to break ANY ncaa rules don't we?
yeah right, go ask the um baseball team about rules....

>					Marty

::j

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: which award is college basketball's Heisman Trophy?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:02:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.225353.18245@ennews.eas.asu.edu> koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann) writes:
>Very politicaly stated Ed.  Your mother would be proud.
Well, unlike you, I rarely swear on the net.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: A Stackhouse Surprise and other recruiting notes
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:31:09 GMT

trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:

>  Stackhouse says that he left Kinston in order to escape the heavy scrutiny
>focused upon him by recruiters and the media, saying that M.o.W. is more 
>isolated.

Stackhouse obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.  *NOTHING* is more
isolated than Kinston.  Actually, having been to both (several times), I'd 
have to recommend Mouth of Wilson (over Kinston, as well as lots of places).  
It's really a nice little town up in the Virginia hills.

And we all know that Dean isn't allowed to drive in Virginia any more.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college