HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: prakash@ee.rochester.edu (Siddhartha Duttagupta)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Anti-Arab racism on the net
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:06:57 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester Department of Electrical Engineering


>I am also uncomfortable with the "two wrongs make a right" stance that
>many people adopt.  I accuse no one, but I mention it because I think it
>is relevent for this discussion.   For example, the fact that Israeli
>organizations have acted badly cannot make those who condemned Rushdie
>right, in just the same way that Indonesian terrorism in East Timor does
>not justify the terrorism of the Khmer Rouge.  
>
>daniel 

This is probably a totally different thread which is not very relevant to
rab.But after going thru a lot of what is being written maybe it is worth
noting.

The point seems to have been sidetracked.The key sentence [to me] seemed
to be "lay of the moral superiority"bit.I am not a muslim and hold no
brief for people who threaten Rushdie's life.But I truly find amusing
that many people have been at pains to point out the superiority of
western morals.Come on guys!have pity on them.After all these people do not have your arsenals of nuclear/conventional weapons.When you do not like what others
are doing you just go in and dump some bombs.These people have to make do
with antic technology that finally has passed thru high-security gates
of Hughes etal.All they can do is blow up a few planes ,in rusdhie's case kill
a translator, and in case of Indonesia [see above] kill a few thousands of
people but just think of Afghanistan or Vietnam!![not mentioned above]

I would agree with Ken that nobody should be killed for publishing anything.
But for those who would pat other's backs and say this is not the way it is
done in the west I think some caution is necessary.Wrongdoing has no
nationality or religion or race.It is much more pervasive than what a netter
suggests:"face it the muslim world has a lot of catching up to do".Dropping
atom bombs on each other is definitely not the type of catching up I would
like the muslim world to do.The fatwa on Rushdie is condemnable period.
That is all that needs to be said.

siddhartha.
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: literature students
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:57:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

Mark Taranto writes:
>My guess is that Barclay is frustrated because the other students are not
>at her level.  When one is used to taking a senior level Math or Physics
>class, one can be assured that nearly all of the students will have the
>necessary background.  It is difficult to take a Real Analysis class
>without having had Advanced Calculas, which in turn requires the general
>Calculas class.  Students without the right background are weeded out.
>On the other hand, no such process occurs in the arts.  Classes in the
>liberal arts often have students whose backgrounds vary.  

Exactly.  I took one (1) lit class, having tested out of freshmen comp:
a senior level class on Jane Austen.  I had no concept of lit analysis.  
I just knew how to read, and how to write history papers.

	Larry "Science Nudge" Hammer
--

                           \  "Absence diminishes small loves and increases
LNH@physics.arizona.edu     \  great ones, as the wind blows out the candle 
insanity needs no disclaimer \ and blows up the bonfire." --La Rochefoucauld
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Buchan (was: Re: RE: Poll: The Greatest Adventure Story Ever
Organization: Clark University
Date: 29 SEP 92 20:19:46 GMT

Jon Corelis writes:

>>expresses admiration for are
>>the Germans who exhibit qualities similar to his own ...
>>
>>You seem to be implying that Buchan, had he lived a bit longer, would
>>have moved to Germany and joined the Nazi party.  What nonsense.
>
>   It is indeed nonsense, which is why I have never said or impleid
>anything remotely like it.  What I said, in language which ought to
>have been perfectly comprehensible to anyone equipped with the ability
>to read English without pointing individually to each word in the
>process,

Chill, Jon, chill.  You're losing it here.

>was that there was an underlying ambivalence in Hannay's
>attitude towards his German enemies which suggested that the imperialist
>ethic of which Hannay is an embodiment had certain common elements with
>the will-to-power strain in German culture which predisposed that
>culture to Fascism.

Well, I went back and read "Greenmantle" to see if there was anything
I might have missed, and I really don't detect an "underlying
ambivalence", or any attitude of Hannay's that indicates he would
sympathize with this "will-to-power strain" that you mention.
Do you think you could refer to specific examples in the text?

I'd appreciate it.  Thank you.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: literature students
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:55:16 GMT

Barclay Blanchard writes:
>Have any of you literature students/professors been bothered by how many
>students spout formulae instead of thinking for themselves?

The further away I get from my college lit courses, the more I find
myself impressed by those "formulae" that I was unable to spout at the
time because I couldn't grasp them well enough to recycle them.  Some
of us had to think for ourselves because we didn't have any choice. :-)

Eliot's "objective correlative," for example: what a concept!

							--Fiona W.
From: skitchen@pilot.njin.net (Not your average USENET junkie...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Bartlett's Familiar Quotations -- New Edition Soon?
Keywords: Quotations, Bartlett's, New Edition?
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:55:28 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Sep.24.00.16.43.1992.26311@pilot.njin.net> skitchen@pilot.njin.net (Not your average USENET junkie...) writes:

> Does anyone out there have any idea whether or not the 16th edition of
> Bartlett's Familiar Quotations will be released any time soon?  It's
> been 12 years between editions, and #15 came 13 years about #14...

Well, I'll admit I find it strange following up on my own post, but
here goes nothing...

What to my wondering eyes should appear last Sunday, but the latest
edition, #16, of Bartlett's Familiar Quotations.  To tell the truth, I
was somewhat underwhelmed by the book I bought.  I love the new
typeface, and the cover's cool, too, but it seems like they actually
shrunk the book.  There don't seem to be as many quotes as before, and
if that's so, then I admit to being quite disappointed.  Of course, I
never had my own copy of edition 15, but that's besides the point...

It's still a great book, though.  They've even got Monty Python quotes
this time around... :)

Scott
-- 
Scott Kitchen  |  Net.handsome.lug  |  ICBM: 40.88 N  74.56 W
------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't wrestle a pig in a mud hole.  You both get all dirty, and the
pig enjoys it.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lpk@cs.brown.edu (Leslie Pack Kaelbling)
Subject: Re: gold bug variations
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Brown University
	<2l_p71g.snow@netcom.com> <BvCAA7.Ju8@NCoast.ORG>
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:23:24 GMT


I can stand it no longer.  I'm a lurker, but we all must have our day.

I read _The Goldbug Variations_ because of some excellent reviews on
r.a.b.  and because the blurb on the back compared Powers (favorably)
to Pynchon.  I was greatly disappointed.

I felt the whole time that Powers was trying much too hard to impress
me with the depth and breadth of his knowledge.  When I read Pynchon
(esp. GR), I am impressed, but I get the feeling he doesn't give a
damn.  Powers started with what was basically a good idea, I think,
but then worked it to death.

Harrumph.  On the whole, the pointers I've gotten from r.a.b. have been
great, but this was a bum steer.


Back to the lurkers' lair,
Leslie Kaelbling

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave)
Subject: Re: Books Reach OUT!  (Was:  Re: Literature students)
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:51:56 GMT

Tom Maddox writes about my membership in Santa Fe Monthly Meeting:

|> 	Perhaps so.  Also cryptic.  What is "the Santa Fe Monthly Meeting"?

Apologies for the gloss.  Meeting ~= parish.  One becomes a member after
undergoing a "clearness process" with people whose job it is to help you
decide if Quakerism is something you really want to practice.  The "Monthly"
refers to the fact that there is a business meeting once a month after
Meeting for Worship.  Everything regarding dues, upkeep of the building,
contributions to other charities, First Day School (an anachronistic term
that just means Sunday school), etc. is decided by consensus by those 
present at the Meeting for Worship for Business.  Over formal language, but
it does keep one mindful (hopefully) that those across the room from you
who just proposed the most ridiculous use for the meeting's paltry funds
are indeed human, and, one must trust given the circumstances, mean well.
Also reminds one that essentially the management of the meeting's money,
after Caesar's due is rendered unto him, should be an essentially heartfelt
activity.

My shock at having found myself a member of the Meeting was due to the
fact that I am a member of very few organizations of any kind, since
in general I find "memberships" to be tedious, unrewarding things.
That this membership should be in a religious organization merely compounds
my sense of amazement:  they seem so, well, structured, and about matters
that to my mind are too deeply personal to be shared in a noticeably
conforming, external way.

Hope this clarifies ....


|> 
|> -- 
|> 				Tom Maddox
|> 		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
|> 		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
|> 				Alex Alexander

-- 
Graham Redgrave    |    --  I don't speak for the government, 
gwr@life.lanl.gov  |        but I wish the government would speak for me ...  --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: RE: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:14:17 GMT


Heather (HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu) writes:
 
> "Intellectual vampire bitch" is a rather sexist characterization.
> I mean, Norman Mailer is a pompous, dick-waving fathead, but I haven't
> heard anyone come right out and say it in those words.
 
Heather has been hanging out with the wrong crowd up there in Worcester.
I've heard LOTS of people talk about Norman Mailer in almost exactly
those words.
 
As for "intellectual vampire bitch" being a sexist characterization --
I don't know.  There is nothing sexist about "intellectual vampire."
The objection must be to the word "bitch."  A pretty common word that
is only applied to women (usually).  But there are comparable words
that can be applied to men (like prick).  There are lots of other
words which are usually applied only to women -- like "mother" and
"widow."  Must we lose all of these words?  I think not.
 
So, in my mind, the use of the word "bitch" is not sexist -- unless the
intent is sexist.  Let me explain.
 
        A woman who is hard-hearted, selfish and demanding qualifies
        as being a bitch (there are other "qualities" which would
        also qualify).  A man with those same attributes might
        well be called a prick.  I don't find this sexist.
 
        On the other hand, a woman who is intelligent and ambitious
        is often called a bitch, while a man with those attributes
        is often called "Sir."  I find this sexist.
 
Which is the case here?
 
Mark
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Laurence Sterne's _Tristram Shandy_
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:39:00 GMT

Fiona Webster writes...
>SubGenius writes:
>>But candor insists that I point out that although I mentioned the Everyman's
>>Library edition that should not be taken to imply that that was either the
>>only edition I am familiar with or the only edition I own, any more than
>>quoting from the Burton Raffel translation of _Gargantua_ or _Pantagruel_
>>implies that I'm unfamiliar with the Urqhardt (sp?) or Coen translations.
> 
>"Candor insists..."  I like that.  :-)
> 
>							--Fiona
+----------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Hum.
You should see me when, in the midst of a booze-up, candor AND spiflication
start insisting things.  On second thought, that's probably something 
everyone should go to great lengths to avoid seeing.








Quite a raconteur
in an emetic sort of way,
Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:11:09 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:

>No, I mean the Golden Retrievers! You'd substitute maybe some
>lesser life form, like cats?

     Substitute a couple of kids and you'll start doing very well on the
monthly kids' books quiz.  Your Kafka mileage may tail off some, though.

                                            -- jf
From: anlyyao@igc.apc.org (An-Ly Yao)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Kafka's "Metamorphasis"
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:35:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct1.155609.19271@gtephx.uuc:1838676022:cdp:1446700012:000:316
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Oct  2 23:35:00 1992


"The Metamorphosis" comes with lots of notes in a book translated and edited
by Stanley Comgold: Bantam Books, 1972, ISBN 0-553-21369-5.

On TV (in Germany) I once also saw the movie based on the book, but I don't
know who made it. Any hints? (As far as I remember, it was black & white.)

Goetz
anlyyao@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: helper@english.as.ua.edu (ECL LAB ASSISTANTS)
Subject: Dashiell Hammett
Organization: Department of English, The University of Alabama
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:48:35 GMT

	It's also interesting to note that Dashiell himself was a 
"lunger" and that he eventually died of complications brought on by
tubercolosis.
From: saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:37:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: csrd.1992Sep29.183724.18677
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development

jciliber@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Jon Ciliberto) writes:

>Has anyone had any experience with Edward R. Hamilton Booksellers? I've
>received two catalogs of his, and I think i'll place an order (he carries
>remainders, it seems; all new, mostly hardcovers). Any comments good or bad
>on this vendor would be much appreciated...

It is a very good bookseller in my opinion. Also, I thought always as well
that they dealt with remainders but I have found books in Hamilton's catalog
which are sold for the full price in local book stores (and these are good
bookstores that also have a remainders section). So sometimes when 
looking for a book, I first check the latest Hamilton catalog if it would be 
there and then only check the book store (it has happened to me so many 
times that I have paid too much for a book that this sort of behavior has become
default). This observation is for nature and animal books only.  

Sometimes I think that their new (e.g. 1992) books are books which are very
*slightly* damaged. Otherwise does it make sense to have *remainders* of books 
printed in 1992 for sale in the spring of 1992?

Caution: if the catalog has a book you want to have, then it can 
happen that it won't be in the next one at all and they have run out of the
book. So, if you see a good deal, get it at once! I saw one book once in the
catalog for $6.95, waited a while (<=> couldn't make up my mind) and then it 
disappeared from the catalog. I ended up buying it later for the full price 
of $15.95.

Sirpa Saarinen
saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Attractiveness (was: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:14:08 GMT


miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu  (Ken) writes of Heather (hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu):
 
> I bet nobody'll call you "scum" as wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au did Tim Starr...
 
Most of the people whom I admire on r.a.b have been called SOME name by
Infidel.  I'm sure that if Heather continues to post, she will eventually
be called some name, also.  And it will likely be a little more harsh than
"scum" or "intellectual vampire bitch."
 
Tim Starr got off pretty easy.  "Scum" is one of the more tame things
I've heard from our man in Australia.  In addition, calling a man "scum"
is about as close to stating a tautology as one can come.  All men are
scum -- though some of us try to contain the spillage.
 
On the other hand -- Tim's statement qualifies him for being called "honest,"
a much more rare commodity in today's market.
 
Mark
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Bashing the 1980's (Was: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 21:21:39 GMT

In article <jyc.717526696@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:
>   I was going to comment on this thread but then found the following
>paragraph in Rebecca Radner's review of Paglia's new book in the San
>Francisco Chronicle, which I think says it all:
>
>          Paglia's success demonstrates that anyone with a tiny
>          sense of timing, a willingness for her work to appear
>          in Playboy, a mouth bigger than her brain, a narcissistic
>          disorder, a passion for self-promotion and an atrophied
>          ethical sense can make it big in this country.  

This might help to explain why there are so many trashy books bashing
Ronald Reagan and the 1980's.  Usually the title or subtitle gives the
game away (namely, that it is a hatefest and not a serious study); for
example:

  What Went Wrong,
  Who Will Tell The People,
  Sleepwalking Through History,
  The Role of A Lifetime,
  Backlash,
  The Worst Years of Our Lives,

and a few more whose titles I can't remember.  This doesn't count the
endless stream of kiss-and-tell books, or all the tendentious accounts
of particular scandals.  On the other side, there are only around three
serious hagiographical efforts (by Martin Anderson, Ed Meese, and Robert
Bartley), and two balanced analyses (one by William Niskanen and the
other by Michael Boskin), but none of these books have "made it big."

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:38:05 GMT

Miriam Somebody writes from Winnipeg:

	What about _The Face on the Cutting Room Floor_?  A very bizzare
	novel in the which the author own existence is questionable.  I
	can't remember who wrote it but it does call into question
	many of the assumptions we make about plot, characterization
	and authority (re the author).  If it was written when
	they say it was (1930's) it is way ahead of its time.  I have
	a sneaking suspecision it was one large hoax.  Has any read it?
	Or know anything about it?

Way ahead of its time? Read *Le Chat Noir* for April 26, 1890 (102.5
years ago today). In it find Alfonse Allais' Short Story *Un drame
bien Parisien* whose Chapters 4--7 were also published in Andre Breton's
*Anthologie de l'humour noir* At least note Allais' Prolegomenon:

		La logique mene a tout,
		a condition d'en sortir.

For coinkidinks note that April 26 was the day during which I began to be
born, and LudWit began to die. Another year of course.

							Phideau
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:10:43 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <70032@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>
>Our class is getting more interesting.  I didn't like _Dubliners_ until we
>discussed it in class and our professor pointed out that the style reflects
>how Joyce saw Dublin... bleak, paralyzed, a place where not much happens
>(in an "event" sense).

Me, I think of DUBLINERS as a book of some of the most perfectly realized
short stories in the English language. The bitter, impotent heartbreak of
"Araby," and the sense of self-delusion and loss in "The Dead," for
example, are brilliantly evoked.

To me, DUBLINERS is Joyce's proof that he could write in a traditional
mode and produce fictional narrative as true as anything any other writer
had ever produced. He proved this before breaking ground in nontraditional
narrative modes.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"Liberty resides in the rights of that person
mnemonic@eff.org| whose views you find most odious."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Brittanica 
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:53:16 GMT

I lost the thread again. Someone was interested in knowing if a full set
of encyclopedias is really worth it, and if it may be worth several sets.
At this time, the best reference work that fills the needs of a general
reader is the one-volume Columbia Concise Encyclopedia. It provides good
factual information, the kind most people forget and have to look up per-
iodically. If one needs more information than this, one should probably 
head to the library. Certainly the information provided in an encyclopedia
is going to be suspect, and it's better to find a reliable (and quotable:
encyclopedias are unquotable, since no one is responsible for the infor-
mation in there) source in the library.
However, every general rule has at least one exception: the eleventh 
edition of the Encyclopedia Brittanica. Eminently quotable, beautifully
written, it is remarkably up to date on all issues (mere ego tells us
that an encyclopedia finished in 1911 is not relevant to our lives),
and well worth having. As for others, well, I have a Collier downstairs
that I periodically look into. It's not worth throwing away, but I can't
say I really find it that useful. My Dad bought it because it has great
articles on science and engineering, but the humanities and social sciences
are severely lacking. He loves it, I hate it. Each to his own.

Michael Wise
Englisc


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of love
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:35:54 GMT

mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

   So -- stop your hedging.  Tell us how, tell us when, tell us why, and tell
   us how literature helped!

Well, a lot of my memories of my former sweetie involve books.  One of
our early dates was a long afternoon of cooking (and eating, and
recovering from) Thanksgiving dinner interspersed with periods of
lounging around on his living room floor browsing through his library.
Afterwards he used to say that his book of sailing ship pictures was
responsible for bringing us together!

-Sandra







Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:17019 misc.writing:3016