From: pvanmeur@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Pim van Meurs)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Buchanan's speech
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:03:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug20.150522.4244@athena.cs.uga.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>In article <37047@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> pvanmeur@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Pim van Meurs) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.134553.9460@athena.cs.uga.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:

>>>Don't confuse Buchannan's cultural supremism with racism.  There is a big 

>>So culteral rascism is ok ?

>Cultural supremism I said, not racism.  Cultural racism is not a logical
>phrase because many different races can be within one culture.  For example,
>the United States.  But, some cultures are better than others.  For example,
>Western culture is by far superior to the tribal cultures in Africa and to
>this millenium's culture in Indian, especially when the caste system was
>instituted.

Okay I should ahve used cultural supremism. I guess you are an Ayn
Rand )sp) fan :-) It takes quite some narrowmindedness to state that
the western culture is better than the tribal cultures in Africa.
Just to tie in the supremacy of the western culture with the second
part of your posting on homosexuality. The great Greek society, one
of the corner stones of the western culture considered homosexual
behavior between men and youngsters quite acceptable. If you take a
culture to be supreme to another, please take into account that one
can not just take the good parts and leave the bad parts. It the sum
of both that defines the culture. I personally feel that people who
declare the western culture far superior to other cultures are a
good example of how despicable this statement can be.


>Even very liberal biblical scholars will tell you that the writers of the
>Hebrew Bible and the New Testament saw homosexuality as against the ways of
>God.  Perhaps I could recommend a few liberal scholars to you?

Liberal biblical scholars ... hmm sounds like a contradiction in
terms. However you mean to say that the people who wrote the bible
declared homosexuality against the way of god. So the bible has been
influenced heavily (not heavenly) by cultural thinking of those
times. Even Barbara Bush stated it better: what goes on in the
privacy of someone's life should be none of our bussiness. But hey
we like to condemn people for being different because we are the
cultural elite and we know how superio we are to those tribal, pagan
instincts.... (sarcasm...)

>Practically, to say that homosexuals can marry and adopt children is
>political suicide.  Maybe not for moral reasons, but it is sad to say that
>the election could very well be decided on such non-intellectual of an
>issue, barring that Clinton does not slip out of his pledge to uphold gay
>rights.

Luckily it's not just politics that decide if homosexuals can marry.
Slowly some churches are starting to marry gay couples and if
american culture finally catches up with european culture, we will
have a society taht will accept people for what they are and will
give them the freedom and opportunity to express their personalities
without being persecuted.

>>>The Bible clearly says that homosexuality is wrong.  If others take  this as
>>>an excuse to hate, then surely they are walking further in to the darkness. 
>>>
>>But how literally should the bible be taken. I argue that the bible
>>teaches love and understanding, the fact that some people have added
>>their own ideas about women, gay people etc should not deter us from
>>the real message of the bible.>
>
>It should be interpreted as the writers intended it to be interpreted.  In
>other words, the aim of bilbical criticism is to get at accuracy of the text
>in terms of its original manuscript and to understand what the author meant. 
>No scholar who has ever published in academic journals has suggested that
>the authors did not mean what they said about homosexuality and that
>homosexuality was not forbidden in Hebrew and Christian culture.

Neither am I trying to say that these scholars are wrong, they are
strongly influenced by the christian morals and would never allow
homosexuality to be acceptable behavior. However my point is that
people who wrote the bible added their cultural thinking and have
thus distorted the good message of god. 

> Teddy Kalivoda  ------------> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu 

Pim van Meurs
-- 
Pim van Meurs  UC San Diego Scripps Institution of Oceanography
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