HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TONY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Tony Roder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Moldo-Valachian story...
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:27:16 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

It is perhaps time to punctuate the current erudite discussion about
Romania's origins, with the story of the young Romanian in full military
regalia, spending an afternoon in an elegant Paris salon at the turn of
the century, being asked by a society dowager:  "And you, young man,
what are you?"  "I am Moldovalachian, madame."  To which, impressed, she
replied:  "So young, and already Moldovalachian!"


-----------------------------------
Tony Roder, speaking his mind .....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Subject: Re: Romania as a name (was: Romanians in Greece? )
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:57:02 GMT

|> In article <1992Apr13.172640.16689@wuche2.wustl.edu> ls0823@wuche1.wustl.edu (Labros Skartsis) writes:
|> >
|> >The name "Romania" was selected for the romanian nation (please correct
|> >me , I could easily be wrong) relatively recently, in the 19 th century,
|> 
|> 

The oldest published reference to the name Romania is actually from
the 18th century by a hystorian - Dimitrie Philippide who wrote 
in greek a "Romanian History" and a "Romanian Geography" showing
all the land inhabited by Romanians.

In the 19th century there are already classic books published:
"A History of Romanians" (1937) by Mihail Kogalniceanu and
"The History of Romania under Mihai the Brave" by Nicolae Balcescu.

Cheers
Mihai

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: HF.JXB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Judith Bodo)
Subject: Re: A propos de linguistique
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:16:01 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.131828.6713@cc.umontreal.ca>,
rouxclau@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Roux Claude) writes:
>Je m'excuse d'ecrire en Francais, mais mon anglais est terriblement limite.
>Je suis linguiste et fait des etudes dans ce sens. J'ai entendu dire que sous
>Ceaucescu, les linguistes Roumains avaient ete obliges de considerer leur
>propre langue comme une langue slave et que tout reference a un passe latin
>de cette langue etait considere comme une heresie. Serait-il possible
>d'avoir d'avoir une confirmation a ce propos?
>
>Claude...
Here's a rough translation of the original post. THough I learned
and lived in THAT era, I would not venture in denying or
confirming any of the statements ....Any real linguists out there,
the podium is yours....


I am sorry to write in French, but my English is very limited. I am
a linguist and am completing my studies as such. I learned (heard)
that during Ceausescu, linguists in Romania were forced to consider
their own language as a slavic one and any reference that it would
be a romanic language was considered heretic (nonconformist). Could
I have a confirmation of this statement?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: vmzmeu@polari.com
Subject:  Know of any Gypsy musicians out there?
Summary: I need to find a tambal teacher.  Can anyone help me out?
Keywords:  Gypsy, music, folk, Iordache, Alecu, Luca, tambal, cimbalom
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix.  (206) 328-4944 (all lines telebit-equipped)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:07:23 GMT


es anyone here know where I can find Ilia Alecu?  I play tambal (a moxt
excellent concert grand Bohak) and have never had a teacher, other than old
recordings.  The two best Romanian tambalists I've heard in the recordings
are Toni Iordache and Ilia Alecu.  The former died about a year before I
even knew what a tambal was and the latter disapeared a few years ago, or
at least none of the musicians I work with know where he is now.  Also if
anyone could get me in touch with Damian Luca, he could probably tell me
where to find Alecu.
 
Actually, I'd like to be in touch with any Romanian Gypsy vertuoso musician.
Does anyone know of other totaly awsome tambalists who are still alive?  The
reason I ask is that most of my recordings don't give credits for the band
members and several of them have realy good tambal accompaniment.
 
Multumesc.
 
Zmeu
vladzmeu@milton.u.washington.edu
vmzmeu%polari@uunet.uu.net

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Subject: Re: Apology to Mihai Bucur
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:29:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.002324.8075@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, hargitai@acf3.nyu.edu (Joseph Hargitai) writes:
|> Sorry, I have made a mistake. Nick sent me the thread on the original
|> 
|> postings, to which I received the nasty replies. You were not involved.
|> 
|> call me a fool
|> 
|> joseph

Hey, you got it double confused.  Sasha (Alexander) Bucur is the
guy from USC.
Cheers
MIhai
From: zoelen@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: small translation in romanian
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:26:40 GMT
Organization: Leiden University Faculty of Social Sciences

i was in romania last week and i met some people i want to
send a small parcel to (clothes etc). does anyone know if it will
get there? and who could please translate a letter to send with
it (just three lines or so)
ad van zoelen, leiden, holland
From: 160955r@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Moldo-Valachian story...
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:54:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sdhgrINNa1o
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Romanians have never referred to each other as Moldovalachians, pretty
much like Hungarians did not (probably) call themselves Austrohungarians
Also, by the turn of the century Romania was already independent and called
Romania..

Cheers!

-- 
Radu T. Tomescu at UCBerkeley
Department of Economics
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: andrei@hanauma.stanford.edu (Andrei Popovici)
Subject: Re: Romanians in Greece?
Organization: Stanford University, Department of Geophysics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:34:51 GMT

	I think Joe may be talking of the group called "arom^ani".  I
	have seen an aroman poem, and the language looked almost like
	romanian.
	There are isolated pockets of people of romanian ancestry both 
	in Northern Greece and in Southeastern Yugoslavia.

	Andrei
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Subject: Re: A propos de linguistique
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:57:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.131828.6713@cc.umontreal.ca>, rouxclau@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Roux Claude) writes:
|> Je m'excuse d'ecrire en Francais, mais mon anglais est terriblement limite.
|> Je suis linguiste et fait des etudes dans ce sens. J'ai entendu dire que sous
|> Ceaucescu, les linguistes Roumains avaient ete obliges de considerer leur
|> propre langue comme une langue slave et que tout reference a un passe latin
|> de cette langue etait considere comme une heresie. Serait-il possible
|> d'avoir d'avoir une confirmation a ce propos?
|> 
|> Claude...

No, I don't think so.  I was always taught in schools that the slavic
influence in the romanian language is around 20%.
On the contrary: part of Ceusescu's policy to look good in the west, 
the russian influence in Romania was always minimized.
Plus Romania was the only country in the communist block without 
a Russian garrison (Yugoslavia not considered communist).
Cheers
Mihai
From: cmr@wagner.caltech.edu (Cristian M. Radu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanians in Greece?
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:57:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena


In reply to Mr. Pannon's post: "Romanians in Greece.."

One of my co-workers is a Greek of "vlah" descent.
He claims to have ancestors who originally came to
northern Greece from Moldavia.  His great-grandfather
was a priest there.  I will "interrogate" him further
about this;  funny I did not think more of it.

Cris Radu.
From: PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: CNN Reports...
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:03:37 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

"CNN World Report broadcasted from Romania said fighting in Moldavia may
end but there are a lot of refugees... and the Red Cross helps as much as
it cans. A Strip of Moldavia may become Ukrainian and the rest most like-
ly will get united with Romania."
                                                  Andronikos Romanos
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Kamnetz =? Comanesti
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:24:55 GMT
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU


In doing geneological research, I have come across the immigration
certification of the nephew of my great-grandfather.  His birthplace
(1898) is listed as:

	"YANAVETS, NEAR KAMNETZ, BESSARABIA"

I have assumed that these names are German-language equivalents, and
so I set out with a map of Romania to find a similarly-named town in
Bessarabia.  What I found was a town called Comanesti, in the
mountains east of Bacau.  Could this be my ancestors' "Kamnetz"?

I presume that "Yanavets" is a small village that has most likely not
survived to this day.  Of course, if someone knows otherwise, I would
very much like to know.

Thanks very much,

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
From: pannon@bcsfse.boeing.com (Joe Pannon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanians in Greece?
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:35:36 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue, WA

In article <1992Apr10.190143.12083@wuche2.wustl.edu>, ls0823@wuche1.wustl.edu (Labros Skartsis) writes:
|> Dear Joe,
|> let me try to contribute a little to this point - to the best of
|> my knowledge, of course.
|> 
|> Indeed there have been some people in central-northern Greece,
|> who were called "Vlachs" ("Vlachoi" in greek (plural); "Vlachos" 
|> in singular form). Actually, as your friend said, the use of the term
|> "Vlachos" has expanded in the everyday language to denote "not-too-
|> sophisticated-villager" (say, "hoozier" if I may say!) thus diverging
|> from its original ethnic/cultural sense (nothing offensive, you know
|> how these terms evolve!).

Dear Labros:
I feel especially fortunate to have a Greek join this thread because of the greater authenticity this adds to the story I related originally.
I must admit, I did so with hesitation because of the potential for being flamed for it.  (See Bucur's intro: "I am not sure where you are heading with the argument."  Well, Sasha, it was not an argument, but a story, anyway.)

I find most of the responses rather fascinating and I hope we can keep it that way.  

My original curiosity in this matter was raised by the name "Vlach" and that supposed official Romanian interest in them between the two Wars
because I was not aware of any Southward Romanian migration in the past
(though I was aware of how the French got to Louisiana or Quebec, of course).

As to the name "Vlach" itself, I think the first written mention of it was in old Byzantine chronicles, way before the Turks.  So the Turks may have borrowed it from them later, if at all.  

To answer Adrian's recollection of the Turkish word "Ghiaur", I doubt it was reserved only for the Romanians, for that's how they called the Hungarians, too.  I think it has the same meaning as "infidel" today.  This is how they called all people who were not of the Moslem (Muslim?)
faith.

Thanks again for the terrific contributions and keep it coming, folks,
Joe Pannon
From: rouxclau@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Roux Claude)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: A propos de linguistique
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:18:28 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Je m'excuse d'ecrire en Francais, mais mon anglais est terriblement limite.
Je suis linguiste et fait des etudes dans ce sens. J'ai entendu dire que sous
Ceaucescu, les linguistes Roumains avaient ete obliges de considerer leur
propre langue comme une langue slave et que tout reference a un passe latin
de cette langue etait considere comme une heresie. Serait-il possible
d'avoir d'avoir une confirmation a ce propos?

Claude...
Xref: sparky soc.culture.romanian:426 soc.culture.soviet:2903 soc.culture.spain:1268
From: ab0kfc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (K F Chow)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.spain
Subject: BMS survey
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:51:12 GMT
Organization: School of Architecture, University of Bath, UK

If you are an undergradate of engineering you may like to
do a questionnaire through email, on the subject "Building
Management Systems". This questionnaire is being done by 
your counterparts at USA, CAN, & UK. Comparison will be 
made between you and them.

If you know nothing about BMS but you know some others may 
do, please pass on the message.

Come and Join the party !!

-------------------------------------------------------------
K.F CHOW                      email : ab0kfc@uk.ac.bath.sl1
School of Architecture &              ab0kfc@uk.ac.bath.gdt
Building Engineering,
Bath University, UK
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: pannon@bcsfse.boeing.com (Joe Pannon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Romanians in Greece?
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:48:44 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue, WA

Here is a story that might be of interest to Romanians and I would like 
to hear your reaction to it.

A couple years ago I was a frequent visitor on a Washington, DC based
BBS, connected to some think-tank on East European affairs.  Most of the
BBS posters were also connected to various DC-based policy research
institutes or universities, or just people interested in the East-West
affairs. Interestingly, I think I was the only one with actual Eastern
European background there.

One of the frequent posters was a Greek woman, also associated with some
think-tank, and what was most amazing about her was the number of
languages she was proficient in: I think something like 8, if my memory
serves me correctly.  Helen (that was her name), must have come from
well-connetced Greek circles, because she personally knew many of the
top Greek politicians, even Helena Mercouri.  She was the one who told
me the story I am about to relate here, and based on her background and
reputation, I have no reason to doubt its authenticity.

Somehow, when discussing the conflict between Hungary and Romania and
its historic roots, I mentioned the former name the Romanians were known by,
the word "vlach".  Helen immediately responded with the following story:

In her younger years she often visited certain places in Northern
Greece, where the word "vlach" was used as a sort of derogative term for
a small ethnic group in the Northern Greece mountains, in the same way
the term "hill-billy" is used in the US.  These people were mostly sheep
herders.  Helen also said, and this is the most interesting part in the
story, that between the two World Wars the royal Romanian government
used to send teachers to them. As she befriended several of these
people, she always resented the "hill-billy" connotation attached to
them.  Her contact with them is long lost now, and she doesn't even know
any more if those few Greek "vlachs" still maintain their unique ethnicity
or have now assimmilated completely.

My question to you is this: has any of the Romanians here heard about this
small "vlach" group in Greece?  How do you think such a group got into
Northern Greece?

Thanks,
Joe Pannon
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: fishfood
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:36:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: darkstar.32489
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC

monnik@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes:
>does anyone know fishfood that is kasher lepesach?

Besides the obvious pet store goodies like frozen/live brine shrimp or
worms, I always treated aqarium fish with grated frozen ground beef.
This is what you do with all that old, freezer-burned steak.

Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
From: unterspa@novavax.UUCP (Diane Unterspan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: passover customs
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:43:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL



 interesting how many customs are viewed as law.
in Ashkenazic homes it is unlikely that you will see lamb at the
seder, this is often reserved until after the restoration of the
Temple. In sephardic homes, it is common to serve roast lamb.
Many ashkenazic jews will not eat beans, peas, nuts, rice and corn at
passover altho these are not hametz as defined by the torah (wheat,
barley, oats, rye and spelts...what ever are spelts?)
How do those who prohibit peanuts reconcile the nuts in harosetz?
From: unixwiz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Silk)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Keywords: kosher, passover
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:18:18 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <1992Apr14.193402.27353@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> alz@nestor.uucp (80122-zoble) writes:

>A discussion during lunch with a Catholic co-worker brought up some questions
>about Judaism that I wasn't prepared to answer. Maybe some net people can
>help me out. I was brought up very liberal and reform, so I'm looking for
>a similar viewpoint, not a Conservative or Orthodox one, which I could agree
>with based upon my upbringing and beliefs.

>My first question is regarding foods not to be eaten during Passover. I've
[first question deleted...I don't know the answer....]

>My second question is more subjective, but may have some authoritative
>answer - I don't know. We discussed the trilogy, and how essential a belief
>in God is to a Catholic. Is it also necessary for all Jews to believe in
>God, or is there room for doubt based upon personal belief or
>interpretation?

I was always told, by Rabbi's both Reform and Orthodox (and Conservative)
that G-d said that He would rather have people follow Torah then follow
Him.  Because, by doing so, they would eventually come to Him.

That always made sense to me, simply because Tanach and Talmud are G-d's
laws, interepreted by mankind.  If we follow them, then we must eventually
come to their creator, G-d.

>Thank you.

Your Welcome.

>Allison Zoble                         "Things are getting worse ...
>nestor.cc.bellcore.com!alz             please send chocolate!"- Boynton
>My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer - thank goodness!

no flames please, peoples...I'm just a lamdan putting in his 2 shekels
worth.

y'rachmeal laeb simcha
unixwiz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Shaving
Organization: University of Toronto / UTCS Public Access
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:08:37 GMT

Mr. H. Markowitz and Mr. A. Schmiedel were discussing shaving with a razor.

In cases of tzora'at ("leprosy") complete shaving of the head, beard and
eyebrows is prescribed.

Did they use a razor to do that?

Also, I recall from years past that the one electric shaver that was not 
considered to be permissible was Sunbeam, because a posek had been able to cut
paper with it.  Are there any models of electric shaver that are not permissible
nowadays?

Aryk Nusbacher
aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca

Have a good pasch!
From: broner@acfcluster.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Dental Floss and Pesach
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:14:16 GMT
Organization: New York University

In article <1992Apr9.201056.23658@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, jdr8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jay D Rosenbaum) writes:
> Is there anything I should know before Pesach about un-waxed dental floss?
>
> It's a relatively new habit and I'd like to keep it, even during the holiday.
> 
> Thanks for your help...
> 
> -Jay

Sorry, a point I failed to mention in the previous posting.
	Do not tear the floss on Shabbos or Yom Tov, and do not floss on
Shabbos or Yom Tov, *IF* there is a chance that you will make yourself BLEED!
	Erev Shabbos/Yom Tov, and Motzei Shabbos/Yom Tov, should suffice.

B'Ahavah~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Chaim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: br042@cleveland.freenet.edu
Subject: Re: Following Sedar tradition
Organization: Migdal Torah - The Jewish Learning Center
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 23:59:00 -0400


In article <1992Apr5.192544.21182@cs.ubc.ca> davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein) writes:
>In article <9204032241.AA15896@relay2.UU.NET> br042@cleveland.freenet.edu writes:
>>
>>One should use _red wine_ for the four cups.
>
>Why is this so?

For two reasons:

1) Based on a verse in Mishlei (proverbs) 23-31 "look not after the wine
whenit is red" indicates that the wine of choice is when it is red.  Based
on this reason, if one had a white wine which was of better quality, than
the white wine would in fact be the one to use.

2) To remind us of the shedding of the blood of innocent children that
Pharaoh decreed in Egypt. 

A Happy and Kosher Peasach


Avrohom Mordechai Alter    

alter@Freenet.cleveland.edu

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Hagadah?
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:06:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: bimacs.3818
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <43022@as0c.sei.cmu.edu> ae@sei.cmu.edu (Arthur Evans) writes:

>    Haggadah for the ... Lamb

>The book ... justifying a vegetarian seder.

Who needs justification.
It is written in the Tora that one who is far ( from the Temple)
should not sacrify the Lamb.
And there is no need to eat meat in the Seder.

The problem is that too many persons like to print Hagadda and got the
profit out of that.

 By the way , in some Hagadot there is a mistake.

on KORECH ( the Sandwich ) one should say :

So deed Hillel, he put together PESACH maza and maror and eat them
together.

the word PESACH - the lamb , do nott appear becaue of a mistake in
thos Hagadot.

Shalom     Gideon    EREZ YISRAEL
From: chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A Byte Of Torah I,XX The Seder
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:38:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


In the original posting the address for subscription to Byte of Torah
contained an inadvertant spelling error.  If you are interested in
subscribing to A Byte of Torah send a message to 

listserv@israel.nysernet.org

with a one line message saying SUB bytetorah <firstname> <lastname>

The original posting accidently added an "e" to the end of the
word "listserv".


Chaim R. Dworkin
chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu