From: dswartz@redondo.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update (was Re: Clemens update please)
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:23:37 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <1992Sep15.220107.28369@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton) writes:
>In article <6406@transfer.stratus.com> dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
>>I disagree.  I've seen far too many managers (particularly those who manage
>>the Rocket) who seem to follow the principle of "Well, gee.  I know he was
>>getting hammered, but he's my ace, so if he can't get them out, no one can."
>>In every one of the games I remember where Clemens gave up 9+ runs, it was
>>obvious in the first inning or two that he either had nothing or had something
>>wrong with him.  This didn't stop his manager from leaving him in for 6 or more
>>innings.  This was especially annoying when a typical runs/innings line would
>>look like this:
>>
>> 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9
>> 1  0  2  0  2  4  x  x  x
>
>A few things:
>
>1. I'm surprised that Clemens has given up 9 runs in a game more than
>   once in his career.  How many times has this happened?

Since I started watching him in '86, I've seen this about 3-4 times.
Of course, all of the runs weren't let in by him.  In one of the games
I watched, he left with the bases loaded and 1 out and Dennis Lamp (I
think it was) let in all three.  Actually, I count games in which he
gives up 5 or more in 4 or less innings.  For him, a blowout.

>2. I actually kind of like this managerial strategy.  *Provided* of
>   course that the pitcher isn't injured and that you're not
>   overpitching him.  I mean, why not leave Clemens in and hope he
>   discovers his form (likely) instead of throwing some worthless
                        ^^^^^^ NO! Comment later...
>   middle reliever out there?  At the very least, you make sure
>   that Clemens gets his 80-100 pitches in and he's ready for his
>   next start.

a. In at least one of these, it turned out he *was* injured.  He had
pulled a muscle moving a couch, but tried to tough it out.  Result?
He had no control and the Tigers hosed him down.

b. Why do you want your ace to burn valuable pitches off his arm?
If you pull him earlier, you might be able to bring him back a day
or so early.  And who knows?  He might then be able to retire a batter.
(sarcasm alert!)  And as to my deferred comment - I have *never* seen
a game where Rocket had crap early on but found it later.  Not ever.
Mind you, I'm not talking the occasional games where he doesn't have
his best stuff and has a few shaky innings.  I'm talking about the rare
games where he is getting behind every hitter, and when he does manage
to find the strike zone, the number 8 and 9 hitters are pulling his
fastball.  Hard.  For extra bases.  And then, after being left in to
take a pounding, morons in the press talk about how he can't hold a
big lead (this happened a couple of years ago in Yankee Stadium as I
recall).  Besides which, the whole point (IMO) of having an ace is to
maximize your chances of winning because when he's on, he can beat most
other pitchers.  When he's getting shelled and is already down 5-0, it's
hard to believe J-random pitcher out of the bullpen will do any worse.

>3. Actually, it sounds like you and I are talking about basically
>   the same strategy -- the manager leaves Clemens in until the game
>   is pretty much decided one way or another (i.e., until he gives
>   up runs 6, 7, 8, and 9).  This tends to increase the number of
>   decisions he gets.

Oh, okay.  The way I read your post gave me the impression that Roger was
somehow profiting by the extra decisions.


>-Michael
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
>mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball