HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbrackstone@admin1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Hotels in Tahoe
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:57:42 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

I did the ski/gamble trip to South Lake Tahoe just before Xmas and 
stayed at the new Embassy Suites, right next door to Harrah's.  They 
are geared for the skier with a small Heavenly shop on premises and sell
lift passes and rent equipment right there.  The shuttle also runs from there.
The hotel is VERY nice and you get a free breakfast, and comp drinks in the 
p.m.  It's quiter than most of the other hotels, but is still right next 
door to the action.

I've also stayed at Harrah's (my second choice), and at Harvey's (also nice)
but I recommend Embassy.  Rates will run from about $89 to $120 and 
lower if you can get in on either a gambling package or a skiing package.
It's worth checking with a travel agent to see what they have, sometimes
the packages are cheaper that what you can buy seperately even if you 
don't use all the options like car rental.

Sam
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Double Down Stud
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:37:42 GMT
	<1993Jan21.080201.7719@quake.sylmar.ca.us>
	<MBN.93Jan22135331@greyskul.hf.intel.com>
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
In-reply-to: mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:53:31 GMT

In article <MBN.93Jan22135331@greyskul.hf.intel.com> mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com (Mike Northam) writes:

   >>>>> "marty" == Marty Campman <Marty.Campman%bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us> writes:
marty> Pair 6 - 10 PUSH
marty> Pair J - A  Pays 1-1 
marty> Two Pair    Pays 2-1
marty> 3 of a Kind Pays 3-1
marty> Straight    Pays 5-1
marty> Flush       Pays 8-1
		 	^^^
marty> Fullhouse   Pays 11-1
			^^^^
marty> 4 of a kind Pays 50-1 (I think)
marty> Strt. Flush Pays 200-1
marty> Royal Flush Pays 2000-1
			^^^^^^
> From the FAQ:
>
> Q:V1  Is it possible to gain an advantage at Video Poker?
> A:V1  (Steve Jacobs)
>
[VP discussion deleted, basically similar payoffs that are N-for-1
 instead of N-to-1]

> Taken together, doesn't this imply that this game has a positive
> expectation (neglecting the effect of other player's hands, which may be
> significant, since VP is a head-on game)?  (I imagine someone will show me
> the error of my ways, the casinos probably aren't giving out free lunches
> here.  :-))

Although the payoffs are similar, the games are really much different.
In video poker, you are allowed to discard any cards that you don't
like, and draw replacements.  In DD Stud, you only get the 5 original
cards, but you don't get to see the last card until you've made your
double-or-stay decision.

The odds for ending up with the various final hands are much different
in these two games.  For an extreme example, VP using the strategy in
the FAQ gives the player a royal flush about once every 36,000 games.
In DD stud, it is more like once every 650,000 games.  The VP strategy
in the FAQ allows the player to win or push about 45% of the time.  In
DD stud, you will win or push only about 35% to 40% of the time.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
From: dbirk@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Daniel Birkestrand)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Craps [on IL riverboats]: 2x odds?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:33:33 GMT
Reply-To: dbirk@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Rochester
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

The Casino Rock Island in the Quad Cities only has 1x odds, sorry. I don't know about the President on the Iowa side though.


Dan Birkestrand
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mhall@netcom.com (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Question about proprieties in BJ
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:41:15 GMT

gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:

> When I was in Vegas last I had something happen that I was unclear about. 
>I was on a $10 BJ table at CC and had just won a double down hand and took
>back some chips. The cocktail waitress chose that moment to bring my drink
>and as I reached for a $1 chip to give her I grabbed what I thought was a
>$10 chip and put it down for my bet.

You must have been really sloshed, since there are no $10 chips.

>The dealer dealt out the cards and it was
>then (before looking at my cards although I have no idea if the dealer knew
>Ihad yet to look at them) that I saw that it was only a $5 chip. I pointed
>it out to the dealer and said "sorry I thought it was a ten" and he said
>"just go ahead and put another five down". I did and then looked at my cards
>and saw that I had a blackjack. I felt like a slimeball figuring that he
>probably thought I knew what I had and I gave him a five but I was curious
>as to what should have been done in that situation. Should he have allowed
>me to increase my bet to the table minimum as I did or just given me
>some shit and made me play the $5? 

Normally, they give you some shit and let you play the $5 for that round
only.

-- 
Michael Hall   \  Player: "Should I split [9's versus dealer 4]?"
personal account\ Dealer: "The book says not too."
mhall@netcom.com \ -Yes, I overheard this at a casino blackjack table.
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: online or just computer-readable form guides
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:30:03 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

Are there any?
Specifically, UK horseracing, but I'll take anything!
(This is for someone else - I'm interested in soccer myself)

            All creatures will make merry   (on pain of death)
    Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England    (44|0)61-275-6033  
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: walter@optimla.aimla.com (Walter Hunt)
Subject: Re: Re: Craps (was Patrick system)  ystem
Organization: OptImage Interactive Services Co., L.P.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:21:48 GMT

In article <44890021@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, goo@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Michael Goo) writes:
|> swood@unixg.ubc.ca (Stephen Wood) writes...
|> 
|> >For you craps players I came across a bet recently that I have never
|> >seen documented.  At the Frontier 10X odds $1 minimum table after
|> >the point is established you can place any point for $1/$10 odds as
|> >if it were an established come bet.  This is of course a better bet
|> >than merely placing the number.  I presume this bet can be made 
|> >anywhere there is a 10X odds game?
|> 
|> Since it's undocumented, how would I know???  I play 10x at the Horseshoe
|> and have never seen anybody do this.
|> 
|> Do you have to fork out an extra $1 for the come bet???  If not, it might
|> be worth checking out.
|> 
|> 


	I've seen this happen, and asked about it a couple months ago. Seems to
me it should be worth a bit of an edge, but I didn't bother figuring out how
much. (This was at the Frontier, also.) No "vig" was seen to change hands.


-- 
Walter Hunt					walter@optimla.optimage.com
OptImage Interactive Services Company, L.P.	walter@optimla.aimla.com
11040 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite #300		netcom!optimla!walter
Los Angeles, Ca. 90025				(310) 445-5718
From: goo@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Michael Goo)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:18:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Craps (was Patrick system)  ystem
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.gambling

swood@unixg.ubc.ca (Stephen Wood) writes...

>For you craps players I came across a bet recently that I have never
>seen documented.  At the Frontier 10X odds $1 minimum table after
>the point is established you can place any point for $1/$10 odds as
>if it were an established come bet.  This is of course a better bet
>than merely placing the number.  I presume this bet can be made 
>anywhere there is a 10X odds game?

Since it's undocumented, how would I know???  I play 10x at the Horseshoe
and have never seen anybody do this.

Do you have to fork out an extra $1 for the come bet???  If not, it might
be worth checking out.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Goo                   |
Hewlett-Packard               | "I never try to cover my ass...
Information Networks Division |   but I certainly support your right to do so!"
19420 Homestead Road  MS 43LT |
Cupertino, CA 95014-9974      |
goo@hpisrhx.cup.hp.com        |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: reeves@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (John F. Reeves)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS *AGAINST* gambling
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 00:21:57 GMT

slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven) writes:
!In <1993Jan25.172151.3294@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
!>               The "SOUND CURRENT" manifests differently for different 
!>          Initiates, and can sound like a rushing wind, ocean waves on 
!>          the sea shore, buzzing bees, higher-pitched buzzing sound, a 
!>          flute, various heavenly music, or other sounds.  In Eckankar, 
!>          Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as 
!>          a Member.  
!
!Sometimes it tells me to climb a high belltower with an AK-47.

They tell me there is an Omaha game up there. 

			      --John 
	                      "Only if the AK are suited, and the
                              47 doesn't have much of a chance for low"

-- 
 John Reeves -----------------------------------------------------------
 UCLA AI Lab         Internet: reeves@cs.ucla.edu
 3531 Boelter Hall   UUCP: ...!(uunet,rutgers,ucbvax)!cs.ucla.edu!reeves
 UCLA LA CA 90024 ------------------------------------------------------
From: tm86214@cs.tut.fi (Topi Miettinen)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BJ in Finland
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:59:59
Organization: Tyrannizing Untamed Tequilabrains
Distribution: world
	<1993Jan21.093631.19124@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaarne.cs.tut.fi
In-reply-to: picasso@klaava.Helsinki.FI's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:36:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.093631.19124@klaava.Helsinki.FI> picasso@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marcus A Picasso) writes:

>   I think it means that. This is how ""Blackjack"" (they really should
> call it soemthing else :) is played in Finland:

>    - 6 decks
>    - S17
>    - Splitting allowed, 1 card on aces, no resplitting
>    - no DAS
>    - Double on 9, 10, 11
>      (doubling soft 19 (A8) turns it to a hard 9 i.e. double-card 2 =>
>       sum 11 !)
>    - No surrender
>    - Only Blackjack/Blackjack and 21/21 pushes the dealer
>    - Insurance
>    - >95% penetration
>      (The dealer shuffles right after the cut-card is dealt; even if a
>       game is in process.)

Correction: After January 1, 1993, dealer shuffles when the last game
has been played, not in the middle of it. After shuffling, 5 cards are
moved to corner, not shown.  Only four decks (of six) are played.

Shuffling rules in restaurants etc. were changed to conform with ones
in Casino RAY.

>   PS. The one and only casino (Casino RAY) in Finland offers better
> rules (regarding pushes, DAS etc.), but unfortunately they use 6 decks..
> (Quite good penetration, though).

Remember, a monopoly operates at the point of maximum profit, not
where supply and demand curves would cross in a free market.
Fortunately, the profits go to the elderly and the sick...

For those who should somehow be interested in the Finnish gambling
situation: A law states that an organization (Raha-automaattiyhdistys,
RAY, Slot Machine Association; founded 1936) has monopoly in all games
which involve money: card games (mainly BJ), roulettes, slot machines.
No one under 18 is allowed to play BJ or roulette and no one under 16
is allowed to play slot machines.

There are roulettes and BJ's in many restaurants, night clubs and
discos; also there are special places called Tayspotti (small gambling
sites) and Casino RAY. You can find slot machines almost everywhere in
Finland, in gas stations, supermarkets, bars etc. The slot machines
have return ratio of 70-85%.

The profits, which were 1 billion FIM ($200 million) last year, are
donated to various charity organizations. About 90% of total revenue
came from slot machines.

RAY's budget must be approved by the Ministry of Social Welfare.

Similar arrangements exist in lottery, where Veikkaus Oy has monopoly.
It's profits are donated to sports.

When and if Finland joins EC, this may or may not change.

> --
> Marcus A Picasso
> e-mail: picasso@cc.Helsinki.FI

Yes, I'm working, but not speaking for Ray...

	Topi Miettinen			OP  |Mnemonic|Description
	Opiskelijank. 18 A 29		FDFF| BUGL   | VMS bugcheck
	SF-33100 Tampere		 - VAX-11 Programming Card
From: wilding@cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Wilding)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Double Down Stud
Date: 23 Jan 1993 11:18:48 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

Referring to the double down stud and video poker payout schedules,
Mike Northam writes about double down stud:

> Taken together, doesn't this imply that this game has a positive
> expectation

No, because video poker allows a card replacement round.

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: larry@labrador.fishkill.ibm.com (Larry Pieniazek)
Subject: TSN (The Sierra Network) BJ
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:06:10 GMT
Reply-To: lar@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: Ya right! 
Keywords: Online

I'm a novice BJ player. Was wondering if anyone on this group has
played BJ on TSN and what they thought of it.

TSN is a an online service available in the US and Canada, oriented
to games. One section (LarryLand) has BJ, Roulette, Poker and Slots.
You are not playing for real money, just pretend (Larry Bucks, L$).

The dealer is the program but up to 4 live people can play against it.

BJ rules seem to be (forgive my not using correct abbrevs):

Minimum bet is 1L$, max is 500L$ per hand.

Dealer stands on 17 and above, including soft 17. Ties are 
always a push.

Insurance offered if A showing, dealer reveals naturals right away
if the A was showing. Insurance pays 2:1 (I NEVER take it...)

Player can split any pair (different 10's included) and can double
anything. No resplitting (screen size limitation I suspect) but you
can double splits, and a Natural pays 3:2 even if from a split ace.

Dealer and you can only take 5 cards. If he does and you don't also,
it's your hand against his. You win double on 5 card maxout.

I'm not sure what surrender is, but I don't think it has it.

There doesn't seem to be any concept of decks... no visible indicator 
anyway. I've tried counting but I'm not that good so can't tell if
it was doing me any good or not.

Nevertheless I have run up my stake from 100 L$ to 20,000 L$ just by	
using basic strategy, over the course of two months playing, perhaps 50 
hours total playing time.  (made me wonder if the game is 
skewed in player's favor in order to be more fun... One way to 
skew it would be to just make the draw 10 heavy, I guess)
I dropped back down to 4K in one long pathetic losing streak but
that's another story.

Naturally there is no toking the dealer.

It's fun and you get to practice with live people but I'm wondering
if it's distorted enough that it would mess me up if I went to AC
(or Foxwoods etc..) and thought I could get away with some of the
stunts I've pulled there...

(I know not to split tens but sometimes I did and boy did it pay off!)

-Lar

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',','
`,` Democrat:    Give us your money. _We'll_ solve your problems. `,`
`,` Republican:  Give us your money. We'll ignore your problems.  `,`
`,` Libertarian: Keep your money. Solve your own problems.        `,`
',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',','

Don't blame ME, I voted Libertarian!

#include <std_disclaim.h>
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Current Vegas Conditions? (BJ/Poker)
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: fibers.1993Jan27.085814.791
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <1993Jan26.014456.3213@cs.ucla.edu>, reeves@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (John F. Reeves) writes:

> 2) Any recommendations on low-stakes holdem?  Do 2-4 games exist or
> is the lowest 3-6? 

Some cheap-o Texas Hold 'Em games in Las Vegas:

Palace Station:  2-4
Circus Circus:   1-5
                 1-3 (no check-raise allowed)
Silver City:     1-3
Four Queens:     1-2 (not split limit.  I.E. - $2 bets allowed before flop)
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: dg-rtp!fibers!mbuck             |
Internet:                             |
  fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com          |
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Opinions on "Red Dog"?
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 11:05:50 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
or Between the Sheets)? 

[for those reading who've never heard of it, the table looks
sort of like a BJ table but the game is completely different.
You place a bet (usually $2 minimum, tho can be $1 at some houses),
dealer draws two cards. At this time you can stand on your bet
or raise up to your first bet but not beyond it). Dealer draws
third card. If third card falls between the first two, you win
usually even money payoff unless the first two cards had a small gap
between them in which case payoff can increase to 2-1, 3-1, 4-1,
5-1. In the case the first two cards are a pair, you cannot raise
your bet, but if the third card makes it a triple, payoff 
is 11-1. If third card doesn't fall between the first two, you lose
your bet (and your raise if any). Non-tripled pairs are a push.

At any rate, during CES, I found Red Dog tables at Vegas World
(Single Deck) and at the Flamingo Hilton (six deck shoe) and
sat at the Hilton table playing on my original $20 buy in for
nearly six hours. Hey.. time flies :)

I got my $20 up to about $100 at one point but then pissed it
away back down to $2, then back up to $60 or $80 when I finally
cashed out and left. The pit boss came by the table a few
times and once mentioned "if you only bet the minimum $2
you'll sit here for a week and never win more than $60." 
He was basically right. 

But I found the game to be a fun time-waster. A huge number
of lurkers stopped to watch and ask "What is that game?!" and a
few times the table filled up to capacity, which made it a lot more
fun, especially the few times the dealer hit a Red Dog (triples)
and had to pay out 11-1 to seven players :)

An initial draw of Ace - Duece (the widest possible spread, 
Ace always being high) is about as close to a "sure thing" in this
game, but it's also pretty amazing how often the third card
comes up Ace or Duece, meaning a loss. Anyway, I just was curious
if there are any other Red Dog fans in this group and if you have
any good strategies/tips to offer. The game doesn't seem to have
a lot of subtleties.. it's fairly simple minded. And very few
casinos in Vegas offer it.. certainly no more than one Red Dog
table at each place that did. 

Harv
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sky@sasoul.org (Brother Sky Masterson)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS *AGAINST* gambling
Originator: jsvrc@rcmain.rc.rit.edu
Organization: Save-A-Soul Mission
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:05:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.172151.3294@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

[moronic crap deleted]

In article <1k3abl$k60@agate.berkeley.edu> jacob@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jacob Jin) writes:

>This is true, and a good example of that is Gary Baze who in this
>race tuned into his filly, "Beelzebub", on the final turn and
>rallied to show. Still, even at 22:1, Revelation was a solid
>bet, and coupled with my pick, Hammer 'n' Nails (13:1), paid
>a fairly celestial exacta. 

Ah, how about the time I am reading Daniel just before I hit a three-horse
parlay with Shadrack, Meshack, and Abendnego? Who says the Good Book doesn't
come in handy?

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor)
Subject: Re: 100% SURE THING
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:20:30 GMT



In article <2336.27.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp>, paul.westley@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul Westley) writes...
> [...]
>She also told me to avoid the multi-action blackjack - you bet your hand
>3 times (minimum $10 each), then get your cards - you'd better not bust
>'cos the dealer then deals 3 sets of cards, one set at a time, and
>compares it to your hand.  (If you busted, you just lost all 3 hands).
>This game seems terrible from many angles, not the least of which is you
>might hit 15 against a 9 showing, but the dealers other 2 hands could
>have 6 showing, in fact I'm not even sure you get to see the first
>dealer hand.

Nope.  The dealer uses the same up card for all three hands, but gets
a new hole card for each one.  If you hit 15 against a 9, you have hit
15 against 9 for all three hands.  Yeah, that's not an ideal hand, so it
seems bad to have to play it 3 times, but when you get 11 and double down
against a dealer's 5, it's nice to have it take effect 3 times.

-- --
 Dave C.                          cantor@star.enet.dec.com
 Digital Equipment Corp., Nashua, NH  03062, USA
  The views expressed herein are my own, except where attributed to 
  someone else.  They are neither the opinion of, nor the responsibility 
  of, Digital Equipment Corporation.
From: slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS *AGAINST* gambling
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:16:58 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <1993Jan25.172151.3294@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>               The "SOUND CURRENT" manifests differently for different 
>          Initiates, and can sound like a rushing wind, ocean waves on 
>          the sea shore, buzzing bees, higher-pitched buzzing sound, a 
>          flute, various heavenly music, or other sounds.  In Eckankar, 
>          Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as 
>          a Member.  

Sometimes it tells me to climb a high belltower with an AK-47.

                             Dave Slaven
                             80th Initiate in Texas Hold'em

-- 
Dave Slaven 

"And if you must keep talking, please try to make it rhyme." 
               --Mose Allison
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: schmegeggie@snake-oil.com (Myron K. Shmegeggie)
Subject: Shareware System for Roulette
Originator: jsvrc@bruno.rc.rit.edu
Organization: Snake Oil of Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:11:50 GMT

Hi! I've seen a few posts for a lesser roulette system, and I'd like to
offer a far better system. It's guaranteed to offer 2.7 - 5.5% better
performance (over the long run) than anything else, and it's available
as shareware. If you use it and like it, you are legally obligated to
pay me $1,000. (You can easily make up this amount in just a few days
of playing Roulette, so the shareware registration fee is really quite
a bargin.)

I call it the "Quadragram FAH-Q" system, and it is explained in its
entirety below. PLEASE DON'T READ THE FOLLOWING UNLESS YOU ARE INTERESTED
IN THE SYSTEM, AND REGISTERING IT.


(If you don't want to see it, press "n" now!!!)








The Quadragram FAH-Q system is based on the randomness of roulette. Recognizing
that the house edge is between 2.7% (single zero) and 5,5% (double zero), the
only way of "beating" Roulette in the long run is NOT TO PLAY.

There! If you use this, remember: You have to register, and send me my $1,000.

Have fun!