HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jking@socs.uts.edu.au (smathy werp)
Subject: Re: Carabiner brake, was Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:24:35 GMT

"Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>the carabiner (multiple type) brake is an excellent rappell system, but the 
>one that I was refering to is the single carabiner brake.  When set up 
>properly the rope sort of winds around the straight section of the biner.
>I do caution that this way can be extremely dangerous if setup wrong...

christopher ..
	it ALSO twists your rope .. (to some a far greater crime than
	being extremely dangerous when set up wrong) .. and also about
	the twin krab decended .. be carefull .. if you use a screw gate
	D to hook to your harness then the rope can undo the gate whilst
	youre hurtling toward the ground /* IF SET UP WRONG */ hence .. the
	moral is dont use this method .. hopefully it has been explained 
	badly enough (no offence .. notice that i didnt try to explain it
	better *8^) to deter any prospective statistics ..

	thats all
--


	| Life: Jason | IRC: elephant | email: jking@socs.uts.EDU.AU |

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Favorite quotes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:47:45 GMT
Distribution: usa

>kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden) writes:
>>"Don't fall now or we'll both go!" 
>>I love yelling this one to my second anytime my belay is marginal.

In article <1992Nov11.105442.28401@hellgate.utah.edu>
allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>I woke up my partner and told him we were going to die 
>With parnters like us who needs crumbly rock or bad pro.

Saturday had one of those:
	"HOW MUCH ROPE DO I HAVE LEFT?"
	"None."
	"I NEED TEN FEET.  CAN YOU CLIMB UP?"
where the crux was right above the belayer.  What can you do? 8^)  Fortunately,
didn't have to stand there too long.  All part of learning to follow.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: barsun@triton.unm.edu (hans f  barsun)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: heucotanks
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:48:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.wpjq1+c
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
  ACCESS ALERT!!!!!
  Heuco Tanks (the whole park) is CLOSED until wed. 11/25.
 the management shut the park down for 2 weeks starting last wed. in


  no, this is not a bad joke.   we found out after driving down there this
weekend.   thought y'all might like to know
-Hans
 
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:10:00 GMT
Subject: Finger Boards?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing




What do folks think about finger boards?  Do you use them?  Why or why not?
Do you use them because you have no other way of training or do you mix them
in with bouldering or climbing wall workouts?

I've got access to several climbing gyms, a 600 sq. ft. climbing wall in
my basement, and live (and work) 15 minutes from 3 great bouldering areas.
So, I haven't used finger boards much at all.  I always figured that
bouldering does as much good and is much more fun.  I had a used board for
awhile and sold it.

However, after reading Gary Ryan's article in Rock & Ice and seeing him
place 3rd at the Horsetooth Hang, I wonder if it wouldn't help.  It is 
certainly a Very specific workout.  I'm beginning to think that two
sessions a week aimed at finger power might be worth the short time it
takes.

Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: A4411DAL@vm.univie.ac.at
Subject: Re: red rocks
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 13:26:54 GMT

I won't go to Red Rocks this weekend! Its a little bit too far away from my
place. But anyway - have fun!!!!

Gerhard Sorger
Vienna, Austria
a4411dal@awiuni11.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: blanchad@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (BLANCHARD DAVID OWEN)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:56:14 GMT

In article <1ebq8hINNm63@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
>view.
>

[Flame on]

This amounts to nothing more than the American public subsidizing the
timber industry.  The industry is ALREADY heavily subsidized because
the Forest Service sells timber at below cost.

It's time for the timber industry to survive or dissappear based on
their own abilities to compete.  No more subsidies.

[Flame off]

David Blanchard
dob@esg1.nssl.erl.gov

Disclaimer:  I speak for no one but myself.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sac@cl.cam.ac.uk (Simon Crosby)
Subject: Re: World Climbing Champs, UK
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Distribution: World
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:08:14 GMT

I now have details on the 1992 Gore Tex Climbing World Finals for those who are
interested in sport climbing :-) 

Note: Distribution changed to World, in case any expats or visitors might be in
the UK and feel like watching instead of doing the climbing. 


1992 Gore Tex Climbing World Finals
11-13 Dec 92, Birmingham, National Indoor Arena
Box Office: (021) 633 3333


Friday: International Open - open event for climbers just failing to qualify
	for the quarter finals. Doors open 4pm, climbing at 5:30pm. 
	Cost \quid 3.00
Saturday: World cup Quarter & Semi Finals. Women & Men. Climbing starts 10:00 am.
	Cost \quid 7.00
Sunday: World cup finals, Women & Men (& men's semis). Starts 10:00 am
	Cost \quid 10.00

All weekender ticket \quid 12.00

-- 
Simon Crosby 
sac@cl.cam.ac.uk
From: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:40:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: medusa.LAUNCE.92Nov16174050
	<1992Nov16.224626.1421@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
	<1992Nov16.232232.17872@ncar.ucar.edu>
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.

In article <1992Nov16.232232.17872@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:

>   I can do as many pull-ups as Tom Brokaw can.

Amy Irvine told me she can't do any.  I think she's just being modest,
especially after seeing her on "Burning" down in AF.

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next12 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: CLIMBING
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:18:48 GMT

I NEED A CLIMBING PARTNER FOR THE NEEDLES IN SOUTH DAKOTA THIS SUMMER.
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Carabiner brake, was Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:42:23 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

OK enlighten me, I'm baffled. Why bother with obscure karabiner wraps 
(or body belays etc) when you can just chuck a Munter onto any old krab?
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: A4411DAL@vm.univie.ac.at
Subject: Olympic sport
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:10:10 GMT

Hi net climbers!
What do you think about INDOOR climbing becoming an Olympic sport? Would this
have any influence on ROCK climbing? Would this cause more people to climb in
trad climbing areas simply because climbing is getting more popular or would
it actuallay detract people from the rocks because they want to take part in
competitions?

Gerhard
Vienna, Austria
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Desert tower recommendations
Organization: DIGIT Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:05:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.102640.61041@cc.usu.edu>, sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
|> Considering
|> primrose dihedrals - anyone know how grim the offwidth is? What else is
|> good?

Do primrose, it is by far the best I've done down there.  The "ear" = OW
pitch, is not that bad (hard but not ugly).  I found the "harding
slot" on astroman much, much, harder (and uglier).  The worst pitch on the
primrose is the first one (the "A" frame pitch).  Hardish, shit rock, and
good ground fall potential.  After that ... have fun :-) but be carefull
on the rap off (see Message-ID: <1992Nov14.040921.22103@fcom.cc.utah.edu>)

The crack on the north side of Castleton is good, but the name slips me now?

Of course you could always go do the Titan

John Storm		internet: storm@geog.utah.edu
SLC UT			climber's-net: a rope!
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:35:46 -0500 
From: "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: One arm pull-ups (was Macho quiz)
	<1992Nov21.002405.8553@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>

A friend of mine, climber from France, was telling us about a movie he saw in France.
The name of the movie was "Opera on rocks" or something like that when translated
Anyway, the main idea behind the movie was of course climbing.  There was one
climber in the entire movies, can't remember his name, you saw him climbing
hard, easy and middle stuff, but the most impressive thing that he did was the
training stuff you got to see.  Apparently this guy lived out of his VW vanagon and
during the trining sections of the film, you got to see him doing pullups, first
two handed using all fingers, then two hands only pinky fingers.  Last was one
hand all fingers, then one hand pinky finger.  Apparently he was ripping these
pinky finger pullups off one after the other with no sign of let up!!
I don't know who this guy is/was but he was also doing some stretching excercises
on a rope tied between a tree and the front bumper of his VW van!  Like a tightrope
act, but while doing the splits and other stretches!

Anyway, I thought that I would just share this story so everyone could see that 
apparently there are a few gifted climbers inteh world with more than human arm
and finger strength.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Sierra Snow/Rock Conditions.
From: cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:28:04 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvakgaaq


	In case anyone is interested, the snow that fell on the sierras
recently, in the last month, was very dry powder that was subsequently 
blown about by very high winds. Its not very deep anywheres, maybe two feet
at the most. It has not consolidated worth a whit except on the sunny slopes,
and there it has melted. Most of the rock climbs are in condition. And the
talus slopes are definitely knee eaters with the various spaces between 
boulders filled in with snow, hiding the depths beneath..
	The approaches may be a problem, but the rock should be fun.
	All of the east and south faces are clear.

	Austin Moseley
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Need help with Chouinard adj. ski poles
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:50:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov15.205053.11949
Organization: University of Washington


Last weekend I was fortunate enough to snap the lower section on one of my
adjustable ski poles.  I like the poles and would like to replace the part
without buying a whole new pair.
	Does anyone have a similar single  pole they would be willing to
sell or possibly a pole with a broken top section they would be willing to
sell?  I think that a Leki pole section would also work.
	I have also thought of cutting off the bottom section of a
standard pole and using it as a replacement part, so long as the diameter
fits.  Has anyone tried this?
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: Black Diamonds new self locking biners should be RECALLED!
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:04:56 GMT

In article <92321.172553FQV@psuvm.psu.edu> FQV@psuvm.psu.edu
(jim bowers) writes:

>I have one of those Self locking Black Diamond Biners.  There is a
>Problem with them!  With the one I have, If you just let the gate close,
>about 1/4 the time the gate doesn't close all the way - the outer and
>inner sleaves should work as one unit but they don't - so that the gate
>can catch on the inner sleave and not close.  For someone who is used
>to HB or simular WELL DESIGNED self locking biners this can be a real
>problem.  With other self lockers you just let the gate close by it'self
>and it's bomber.  I've known about this problem for sometime but that
>didn't prevent a situation which occured recently.  While Jumaring,
>I looked down to see the gate on the BD locker on my harness completly
>OPEN!  If I had decided to sit back on my jumars I could have had a
>real nasty surprise.  If you have one of these things ALWAYS check to
>make sure the gate is actually CLOSED!

BD Super Biners don't work properly when the gate mechanism gets gritty, even
just a little gritty.  Most other self-locking biners work well enough when
dirty.  If even a small amount of grit gets between the outer aluminum gate
sleeve and the inner plastic sleeve, the friction caused keeps the outer
sleeve from rotating freely.  It also makes the gate hang when released for
closure.  The only solution is to keep the gate mechanism meticulously
clean.  It should be cleaned after each day of hard use.  I'm trying
different bicycle chain lube products on it to see which improves its
performance most.  I'm going to try one of the new dry lube concoctions next.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com



From: scochran@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Steve Cochran)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:34:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

Hey!  I can lift a beer glass all day.  Tell me what grade I can climb (before
lifting the glass dummy).

SC
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Swiss S 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 08:31:32 GMT

This does sounds like a Swiss S rappel system.
This is not a recommendation, but it is an old technique.

In article <1992Nov18.134223.9292@aber.ac.uk>
azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>OK enlighten me, I'm baffled. Why bother with obscure karabiner wraps 
>(or body belays etc) when you can just chuck a Munter onto any old krab?

Because the Munter is seen by some as another "obscure" wrap.
There's probably a half dozen experienced climbers who don't know what a
Munter is....
These are more, old techniques to fall back on when your partner
succeeding in dropping the rack.  Or maybe you dropped the rack.
Like shoulder belays, over the shoulder rappels, doable, not recommended,
how else would you know not to do them rather than a waist body belay.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:41:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

eugene miya writes:
>F-T: you must be working with Liba Svobodova on fault tolerance. 8^)

She is my manager (not fault tolerant) and I have to explain to her why I am working 
only part time to have more time for climbing ;-)! 

>Personally, I don't see a duration associated with the apprenticeship which
>most leaders go thru.  Gifted climbers will pass thru the above no sweat,
>but I chuckled with nice climbing and good bolts coming last.  I would hope
>they got to that before bad pro climbing.

You are right today. When we learned climbing the hard routes were in the alps, 
with bad runouts. We had to open all the hard routes ourself in our area.
The newcomers have the nice advantage to find many good equipped climbing areas
with lot of routes in all grades. Therefore they can make faster progress than we did
a few years ago.

>See I think that "may" is part of the issue.  What do you suggest instead
>of the progression (crawl before you walk ...climb)?  Learning to lead
>on the first day? Etc.

Learning to lead on the first day is very important in my opinion. I try to do that
in all the courses I give. The beginner never gets accostumed to the rope comming form 
above and never can build up a barrier against leading.
Leading is a central point in climbing and must be trained from the beginning.
I have a friend which missed that point. He is a excellent boulderer (in the top 20
in Switzerland) but he never can show his abilities in leading a hard route because of
a psychological barrier.

Erich Ruetsche
PS. I am looking for a postdoc position in the US for one year starting next summer,
if possible close to a good climbing area. 
Interests: High Speed Communication, Protocols, Multimedia Communication, Parallelism 
in Communication
(I probably can get founding from the Swiss National Found if I can present an interesting 
Project)
From: gt4016b@prism.gatech.EDU (Craig L. Champlin)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Protecting a Hueco (Waycool)
Keywords: Uriah's Heap, Natural Pro
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:51:49 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

My partner and I both lead our first climbs about 3 weeks ago.  (What a rush!)
So far the hardest I have lead is a 5.8 slab and a 5.7 face.  On the slab
climb I had a 50' runout near the top of the climb and HATED it.  (Way 
freaky!)  

This Christmas we are going to Hueco (Waycool) Tanks in Texas.  Can you get
any natural pro in a hueco?  With all those pretty pockets it looks like there
ought to be tricam or friend placements everywhere, but... All the sexy climbing
mag photos show major runout on climbs riddled with these pockets!  What's
the real story?

Also, we would like to try our hand at a real multi-pitch.  Yesterday we
tried to simulate a multipitch by breaking up a single pitch climb with
a decent ledge into two pitches.  We learned a lot.  I have my eye on
climbing Uriah's Heap (5.7+) on the front side.  I have heard rumor, however,
that this route requires some creative pro which might blow the mind of
a beginning leader like myself. 

Can you suggest either a decent alternative climb which is easy to protect 
(multi-pitch of course)  or give me some idea of the kind of protection 
problems I might encounter on this route?  A suggested rack would also 
be nice.  (We seem to always run out of runners and biners.  I guess this
would be a good thing to carry lots of.)

Thanks in advance!


-- 
gt4016b@prism.gatech.edu        - Craig Champlin

"Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth."
                                - Chief Seattle, 1854
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:50:56 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: na

AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>I have just seen a news report on a proposal to charge user fees for
>backpacking and hiking use of the National Forests.  My first
>response was negative.  However, to say that the money collected
>would be used to replace logging revenues.  The implication was that
>for every $1 collected from backpackers there would be $1 less in
>timber sales.  If this is true I would be inclined to change my
>view.

This would be great.  However, I believe that currently all money
generated from logging sales goes into the general fund and not back
to the Forest Service.  This means that money from timber sales pays
for paving our national highways, conversely gasoline taxes goes
towards our national parks.  So, if they charge a user fee were the
majority of the money goes back into the forests then great.  If this
is not the case then this proposal says "If the damn evironmentalists
want the logging to stop then they can make up the lost revenue with
their own money".

I am all for user fees that go back into improving the forests but
I'll be damned if I want to pay for restoring the forests cut by the
timber industry.  So this proposal is a damned if you do and damned if
you don't.  Either way were going to pay, in dollars or in lost trees.

I guess I'll pay to hike and see a tree.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Olympic sport
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:54:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.081512.29787@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
A4411DAL@vm.univie.ac.at writes:
>What do you think about INDOOR climbing becoming an Olympic sport?

A poor idea.

>Would this have any influence on ROCK climbing?

Oh Sure, yes.

>Would this cause more people to climb in trad climbing areas simply
>because climbing is getting more popular or would it actuallay detract
>people from the rocks because they want to take part in competitions?

Can you consider rephrasing the question?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Favorite quotes
Date: 16 Nov 1992 13:10:43 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov16.184745.29354@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>Saturday had one of those:
>        "HOW MUCH ROPE DO I HAVE LEFT?"
>        "None."
>        "I NEED TEN FEET.  CAN YOU CLIMB UP?"
>where the crux was right above the belayer.  What can you do? 8^)  Fortunately,
>didn't have to stand there too long.  All part of learning to follow.
>
I think of one route where it seemed like pitch after pitch required
a 55 meter rope.  This was the first time I had ever encountered
this problem.  After the first couple of pitches like this I calmed
down.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (five left and cut!)
Subject: beginning ice climbing
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 04:56:33 GMT

Howdy, I'm interested in hearing from climbers with experience in 
water ice and mixed climbing. I've been climbing for 3 years and have 
been leading for 2, doing a mix of sport and multi-pitch trad routes.
I regularly onsight 5.10.

The pics of Charlie Fowler doing the Fang have got me all sweaty palmed 
and glary eyed to do the ice thing. I've been looking at equipment
and reading reviews particularly at double boots (plastic 
mountaineering boots). A salesmen at North Face told me that I should
expect the heel to lift a little which contradicts what I've been
told about double boots ("boots should fit like good ski boots, snug
but not tight with no heel lift and toes you can just wiggle).
I'd appreciate advice on fit as well as any good or bad experiences
with a particular brand. Ditto for ice tools.

                      Happy Climbing,
                          Dave



--
This article was written by my roommate, Dave; email replies to my 
account are welcome, local climbers can reach Dave at 778-0532 as well.

Tim