HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Magic Systems
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:43:43 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

Sigh.  Seems like I'm spending alot of time plugging Better Games lately...and 
I don't even get paid.
     An innovative approach to magic can be found in Issue #2 of the new Space 
Gamer in the game "Rogue Swords of the Empire".  It is based around breaking 
laws of nature, and is flexible and encourages originality in spells.  In fact,
trying the same spell twice in a row is harder because nature is already 
distorted in that way (called the Rule of Originality).  There are no "set" 
spells, but there is a two page list of suggested spells to give an idea of how
to create others, and how to keep the game balance.  Also, ALL PLAYERS can use 
magic...but those who haven't studied it tend to do nasty things to the scenery
and themselves.  It uses Magic Points, but these are not used to cast spells.  
They are used to prevent really nasty side-effects when the player screws up.  
Magic Points are ability to restore the natural balance, basically, although 
some are expended in major efforts regardless of success or failure.  The 
system has a few shortcomings, as any real system will, but overall it is worth
a look.  It can be showhorned fairly easily into any other gaming system (I'm 
starting to use it in my Avengers Of Justice game, which was not originally 
designed for compatibility with Rogue Swords magic).
     Call Pat Mannion at (310) 479-7388 or "Red" Rahm at (818) 845-4201 for 
info, or write to POBox 11424, Burbank CA, 91510-1424 if you don't want to talk
to a machine.  Subscriptions are $25 for 6 issues, and if you want more info 
(since I think I may be straining the bounds of the newsgroup charter here with
huckstering) email me at dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  (I'll respond 
faster than they will, but know less).
     Dave Van Domelen, time to summon a healing worm....
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:10548 rec.games.frp.dnd:7938
From: jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us (Jeff Gostin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Mage Class changes/questions/developement
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:56:21 GMT
Organization: The little node that could...


     Hi folks! What I am interested in doing is creating a mage class
similiar in ability to David Eddings' mages, as in The Belgariad series,
with some interesting twists. I plan on developing it for the AD&D game
system, but it should (probably) be portable over to another system. I
don't, however, want to discuss it over this newsgroup, as I will be
posting the final result when we're through.  If you are interested in
participating in the discussion, please mail me.  My address is
jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us.


                                 --Jeff

...From a tiny little node called Eternal!
--
    /|Email  to:   jgostin@eternal.chi.il.us, offline@infopls.chi.il.us
   / |Smail  to:   Jeff Gostin, 917 High Ridge Pass, Carol Stream IL 60188
   \ |Vmail  to:   708-293-5526
    \|Flames to:   trashcan@eternal.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: 9231196@ul.ie
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RMCVI
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:20:18 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

 As regards RM players,at least 6 in Limerick,Ireland,and perhaps 8-10 others
in Tralee,Co.Kerry,Ireland.
  We're cropping up all over.:>

****************************************************************************
***********            Peter Williams...O.R.A.C.                 ***********
*  "Cats? What are cats? We sodacrackers know nothing of cats! -Garfield   *
****************************************************************************
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: True Reason (Was Re: Fantasy version)
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:33:47 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

In article <C0ps2t.Co0@rice.edu> swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes:
>In article <C0p8ns.2nr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>>"True Reason" is neither true nor reason--to be blunt, it is nothing more
>>than a distorted, and false, picture of a "scientific" outlook that has
>>less in common with science than do the activities of "primitive" healers
>>and other such pre-industrial "wise ones".
>[Rest of diatribe deleted. If you're interested, look up the article.]
>
>>Needless to say, since several of the players in our local Saga are practicing
>>scientists of some sort or another, we simply sneered at True Reason and
>>don't use it.
>  A lot of groups don't, for reasons similar to yours. Try convincing the
>people at WW. It's all part of their plan to have their Storyteller
>system be set in Ars Magica's future.
>

Actually, while that may be true, I use it as the "Humanist" philosophy
prevalent in the renaissance : Man can understand and is the measure of
all things.  This way of thinking flies in the face of the previous thinking
which felt there were things "Man was not meant to know" of shouldn't know
or some such.  Later, like in the late 1800's, when the modern philosophies
took over, people found that man may not be the end all of existance, and
even that life was meaningless, religion hypocritical sometimes and so on.
And with quantam theories, we discovered that the "laws" of physics were
no more than good statistical bets rather than perfect written in stone
laws.  A new 'Nihilist/Quantam' aura arose in the industrialized world in
game terms.

but I digress... :)

An area influenced by reason, things would be less likely to happen that
were inexplicable - or illogical like miracles [God chooses to act less
overtly than in Divine Areas for those who do not want to limit the
sovereignty of God], or Hermetic Magic.

The Ars Magica Mailing List had a raging arguement about it a few months
ago and a number of people had a lot of suggestions [from throwing it out
to modification].  Generally, the consensus was that AS IS, it is at best
half-a**ed and best modified or thrown out.  IN 1199-1299 time frame, few
would have to deal with it anyway.  Beyond the 1400's it will be a real
bugbear.

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | Ak! Its 1992 tax|
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    |  season! Yuck!  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:10459 rec.games.board:12935
From: cassidy@cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Date: 5 Jan 1993 10:19:46 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Reply-To: cassidy@cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: indian.cps.msu.edu
Originator: cassidy@indian.cps.msu.edu

In article <1993Jan4.114519.10737@odin.diku.dk> torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) writes:
>acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>
>>I was setting around thinking today:
>>what are some of the dumbest moves made by game companies?
>
>Avalon Hill's "Powers and Perils" is actually not a bad system, but
>the rules are terribly written. You need to read through the rule
>books several times just to begin using the system, and in general it
>is hard to find the information you need. The system requires some
>book-keeping, but other modern systems do as well.
>
>
	Actually "Powers and Perils" is a bad system.  
	It has numerous interesting mechanics and some unique twists on
familiar frp trappings ( elves, dwarves, etc. ), but the system should
be overhauled.  The numbers that P&P asks you to deal with are
unwieldly, and most of the mathematics IMO wholey unmotivated.  For
example human strength ( and strength only I believe ) is somewhere
between 2 and 138, with a norm falling somewhere in the range of 20 to
50, or possibly above.  Note: my confusion of where the norm falls is
not from not remembering where the norm is, but from a remembered
inability to find any sort of simple distribution to analyze the
numbers.  
	The system is kludgey.  Too many different ways to compute
different things.  But I do remember about the system that I liked the
way that freezing damage was handled, for the first time in my gaming
experience.  On its good side hunting through its mechanics is like and
easter egg hunt, lot of little goodies all over the place.  But if you
stand up and look your in the middle of a field with stuff all over the
place.
>
>	Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)


	John J Cassidy		        cassidy@cps.msu.edu
	~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	"The ice-cold knife has come to decorate the dead."
		-- Genesis
From: b_kondalski@vssi.trw.com (Brian J. Kondalski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: illusions
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:08:00 -0500
Organization: TRW Vehicle Safety Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: trwvssi.vssi.trw.com

In article <1993Jan11.202023.7608@athena.mit.edu> staats@athena.mit.edu () writes:
>I integrated a lot of the ICE Spell Law into my RQ Campaigns over the years.
>
>It seemed to work out pretty nicely.  Anyone else give it a whirl?  How did it
>
>work out?

Being both an RQ2 player, and a Rolemaster player.  I'd be interested in how you
did it also.  I even have a player who wants to start an Eurmal and it would be
most useful....or are you doing this for RQ3?

Brian

-- 
Brian J. Kondalski      b_kondalski@vssi.trw.com
TRW V.S.S.I.            Voice: (313) 781-7382           "The guaranteed eternal
4505 West 26 Mile Road  Fax: (313) 786-7702              sanctuary man."
Washington, MI  48094   Views expressed here are MINE!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: abg1@quads.uchicago.edu (andrew brian gross)
Subject: Re: Hero Bestiary and other Hero Stuff
Reply-To: abg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:09:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.192405.25167@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER) writes:
>In article <phill.726351007@crash.cts.com> phill@crash.cts.com (Phillip Sunbury) writes:
>>
>>What you fail to realize is that to determine stun you multiply by the
>>stun mult. which is 1d6-1 which gives you the results of 1,1,2,3,4,5 you
>>have a 1/3 chancce of getting a 1 which means you do dink for stun and only
>>1/6th to do the big  stun! You can't just count the Maximums! Stun is
>>distorted to do a small amount often because of the two ones!

But the whole point is that if you do not penetrate defenses, then it doesn't
matter in the least whether or not you don't penetrate by 5 body or by 50
body; it's just irrelevent.  Thus, the low end of the distribution-- where
you're not getting through the targets' defenses, anyway (at least most of
the time-- there are exceptions)-- doesn't matter at all.  Only the mean and
the high end matter.

Put another way: if your *average* damage is getting through defenses and 
having an effect, then what are you worried about?  It's probably not a
major villain, and unless something really wierd is going on, you are going
to win the battle, one way or another.  But if your *average* damage is
NOT getting through, then what possible difference does it make that the low
end of the normal attack does more damage than the low end of the killing
attack?  None of it is getting through, anyway!  In that case, all that 
matters is the high end; and for that high end of the distribution, the 
killing attack is clearly superior.



-- 
"Brave, foolish, or both-- there is  | Andrew B. Gross 
 something attractive about an       | abg1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu 
 outrageous and futile undertaking." | "Cultivate philosophy and run like hell."
From: dunkelza@titan.ucs.umass.edu (KEITH C MCCORMIC)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Small company advertising/smart moves?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 14:21:21 -0500
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucc.umass.edu

In article <1993Jan11.154923.11743@afterlife.ncsc.mil> acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:


>Playtest it. And not just among your pals, with you running the adventure.
>Send out freebie playtest copies and ask for people's feedback. Just ask
>around foir playtesters. Only give them a copy of the rules - no advice
>or instructions. If they have to ask you questions, then the rules need
>editing. 
>

   I'll playtest!  I'll Playtest!!!  :)

Dunkelzahn


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael W. Lucas)
Subject: New Nightlife?
Summary: anybody see it yet?
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:06:17 GMT


	Does anybody have an opinion on the new Nightlife?  Has anybody
even seen it yet?  It supposedly came out a few weeks ago.


-- 
"No, no, no!  Slash _parallel_ to your arm, not across!"
	-Leck's Suicide Hotline (from Ivan Brunetti's _Misery Loves Comedy_)
		mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: kurgan@spock.uucp (Andrew Twyman)
Subject: Re: NET.BOOK: Net Spellbook: part 01/12
Organization: Choate Rosemary Hall
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:46:24 GMT

Where's Part 10?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  -"I have something to say.  It's better to burn out, than to fade away!"-  |
|                          -* THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE *-                        |
kurgan@choate.edu--------------------------------------------------------------
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: What do you look for in a magic system?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:20:44 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

Dan Karipides <DK6TOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:

>This is an informal survey concerning what role-players like in a
>RPG magic system.

>I would prefer comments like, "I demand a magic system be..." as opposed
>to "I like GURPS magic." 

I like it if performing magic requires something from caster. Not just
reducing some "magic points" that automatically regenerate. Causing
fatigue is one possibility, but there are others. I've been working on
a system, where the magic user has to take the natural imbalance he
causes by the magic onto himself, which can cause both added chance of
misfires and, if strong enough, random magical effects as the
imbalance "discharges". Other possibilities are required
blood-sacrifice (either your own blood or of a victim), pacts with
demons or other (un)natural spirits etc.

Another thing I like is if it is (almost) never totally impossible for
the magic user to use his magic. There is nothing more boring than an
AD&D magic user who has used all his spells. Fatigue based systems
usually just make the chance of misfire or general failure greater,
but a player has to be really down to be totally unable to perform
magic. I also like it if extreme self-sacrifice can make a magic user
perform magic he would otherwise be unable to. Within limits of
course. It can spoil many adventures if any magician is able to take
his sorroundings with him in a giant fire-ball when he dies.

Also, I like flexibility in the effects of magical spells. If there
are a fixed set of spells, each should have some variation in it's
effect. Anything from variable strength and range to general
manipulation spells. Ability to combine spells or skills to get
specialized effects is good, if it doesn't get too complicated.

I also like variation between different magic users. This can be
anything from specialization within a field to widely different
schools or kinds of magic in the same universe. The latter should be
more than just a difference in what can be achieved, but also a
difference in how.

An unrelated issue is balance. If powerful magic is common, (partial)
protection from magic should be fairly easy to get, even for non-magic
users. If magic is more subtle than powerful this need not be the
case. I have no strong preference to either style, it depends entirely
on the kind of adventure is played.

This reminds me of another point: if magic exists (unless it is really
rare) this would be reflected in the general structure of society. I
don't really like standard medieval societies with magic "bolted on".
If most armies can expect to employ magic users that can levitate
large forces or turn stone to mud or similar, I would expect castles
to be build differently. I alchemist routinely change lead to gold, I
would expect the economy to be different. Etc. etc...

	Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
From: dudleyh@redgum.ucnv.edu.au (Dudley Horque)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:51:53 GMT
Organization: UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

In article <1993Jan7.134853.20775@yang.earlham.edu> jeffj@yang.earlham.edu (ChaOs) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.030322.5908@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, dudleyh@redgum.ucnv.edu.au (Dudley Horque) writes:
>> I firmly believe that Avalon Hill's Tales From The Floating Vagabond is
>> one of the best game systems ever written. It's well written, funny, and
>> succinct.
>
>The system is OK, as long as you ignore some things (like encumbrance.  I mean,
>...

I think that most systems are okay, if you ignore some things (like
encumbrance). Why stick to the letter of the law in a roleplaying game
that is supposed to be entertaining, or enlightening, or whatever? If
things seem right (such as encumbrance) let them happen.

The dumbest move by a game company must therefore be when they claim
that you have to do what the rule book says to be official. Who cares?!
Why not just enjoy yourself?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ciao4niao                                 My philosophy on life is far too deep
Dudley Arthur Horque                   to fit into two lines... I'd need three.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: Torg question
Keywords: system, overview, reviews
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 22:29:20 GMT

In article <mumble> vapspbc@cad.gatech.edu (David Kidd) writes:

>One of my friends is considering running a game in Torg, and I would
>like to know if anyone in the net.world has anything (positive or negative)
>to say on the subject. Nobody I know has ever played in the system, so I'm
>operating from no data. Any input would be appreciated.

TORG is a great game (IMHO of course).  The mechanics are splendid
(though they have their glitches; what game doesn't?) and the unique
Drama Deck adds a lot more to the game than you would initially
suspect (though it takes some getting used to, but after a while it
becomes second nature).

However, be warned that TORG is a cinematic, high adventure style RPG;
if you want large amounts of realism you may be disappointed.  The
game can be tinkered with to acheive higher levels of realism, but its
probably something you shouldn't try doing until you know the system
pretty well.

Almost any genre can be handled by the game, though the sourcebooks
aren't as generic as some RPG sourcebooks (say, GURPS); if you don't
like the specific campaign material some of the sourcebooks won't be
worth too much to you.  For example, if you don't like the idea of the
Cyberpapacy (cyberpunk meets the Inquisition) you could dig the
cyberware rules out of the sourcebook and build your own cyber-reality
but that's maybe 20% of the book and the rest will be almost
worthless.  

If you (or anyone else) have more questions about TORG, there is a
newsgroup devoted to it; alt.games.torg.  If your site doesn't carry
it there is a mailing list that cross-posts with the newsgroup (and
vice versa).  For information on subscribing to the mailing list, send
email to torg-request@morticia.cnns.unt.edu and use the word HELP as
your subject header; the server will send you a short information file
on the mailing list.  If you just want to jump in, send email to the
same address but use SUBSCRIBE as your subject header (but note that
email for the mailing list should be sent to torg@morticia and not
torg-request, as that is the server address).

I also have a longer, more detailed description of TORG (the game and
the setting) that I periodically post to the newsgroup/list.  If
anyone would like a copy send me email and I'll zap a copy back to
you.  







-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)                               /|
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)           o| |-
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."                              /| \|
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RQ: The Relation of the Red Goddess and Orlanth
Organization: National Library of Medicine
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 18:16:13 GMT

gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell) writes:
: In article <1993Jan11.104605.11201@vax.oxford.ac.uk>,
: atmpas@vax.oxford.ac.uk wrote:
: > 	3) How destroy Orlanth?
: > 
: > 	How about:
: > 
: > 	Destroying his worshippers on the mundane plane, challenging for the
: > Middle Air on the Godplane, weakening his allies (replacing Humakt with
: > Yanafal Tarnils, Llankhor Mhy with Irripi Ontor, Issaries with Etyries and
: > challenging Valind).  Perhaps the goal is a complete alteration of the
: > Orlanthi myth-cycle, such that either Yelm never dies, or he does die
: > but is rescued by the Red Goddess, and then becomes her (subservient) husband.
: > 
: > (The occupation of the last Orlanthi city, Whitewall, is obviously an important
: > step in the process; it means that Orlanth can no longer receive strengthening
: > worship or have his myths reinforced by the ritual heroquests each Sacred Time.)
: 
:  But according to the "Genertela: Cradle of the Hero Wars" pack
: there is a very substantial Orlanthi culture in western Ralios.
: Around a million people as I recall, perhaps more there than are 
: in Dragon Pass. The mountain ranges mean that the Lunars aren't
: about to conquer Ralios soon, unless they want to march their
: armies through Dorastor, which surrounds the only pass through
: to Ralios (This must have been why the Second Council set up
: their capital there).
: 
:  Whitewall, however, is the only Orlanthi in the path of the
: current Lunar expansion. I suspect the importance of the fall
: of the last Orlanthi city is more propaganda than anything else. 
: To advertise "the fall of the last Orlanthi city" is wonderfully
: demoralizing to the remaining Orlanthi. 
: 
:  You might be right about the strength Orlanth gains from worship:
: I don't think worshippers thousands of kilometers away can help
: the local faithful with no large temples. To the locals it seems
: as though Oralnth is being destroyed.

It certainly seems possible for the Orlanthi in Dragon Pass and nearby
to be wiped out or displaced, but don't forget that one of the Orlanth
subcults, Orlanth adventurous, is by nature exceedingly mobile and 
flexible. OA shrine-size temples are in many cases portable. What this
means is that OA followers can pursue a guerilla war while preserving their
religious activities much more easily than many other cults.
The mythic damage to Orlanth, especially the weakening of his allies,
could wreak terrible damage indeed. I suspect that Valind cannot be
defeated at his home on the Glacier, so that removing him from the picture
would involve melting the ice cap itself; there is a lunar cult devoted to
keeping the winter back, which operates in the northlands of Peloria.
  Just as a side issue, don't write off Invisible Orlanth; while they
are heretics to mainstream Orlanthi, if regular Orlanth society is
threatened by the Lunars, they might be able to give assistance.

Brandon Brylawski