HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tabraun@icaen.uiowa.edu (Terry A Braun)
Subject: The $COST$ of Netrek (UDP help!)???
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:59:56 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

I have played netrek often from school and occasionally from work.
I got a friend from work playing and he became rEaLly addicted, 
he played over lunch, breaks - whenever he could.  Our company has
a NO GAMES AT ALL! policy which I have yet to see enforced.  My friend
became concerned about the cost to our company of playing netrek.  
I don't know enough myself, and have been unable to find out by asking
around.  So could someone please tell me (so I can tell my friend)
what it costs to play netrek?  I don't mean in lost labor or time, I mean
in reguards to the cost of using the UDP line, or any other costs that
I am unaware of.  I would not consider excessive wear and tear on the 
keyboard/mouse/screen a problem.

The issue of to play, or not to play is of no concern to me, because I
start school again in late August, but it is difficult on my friend
because he obviously does not want to lose his job, but he really loves 
the game, and has quit playing for now.  So I NEED AN ANSWER.  Also, from
reading this newsgroup, I know people from other companies play.
What do your companies say about the practice?
The machine is a DEC5000.  The machines are idle unless someone is at
the keyboard using them.  (That sure sounds strange.)


T Braun
Commander Hayden Fry
From: botelle@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Doorstop bug
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:13:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Gotta love doorstop.

Justin

Admiral "Tom is a weenie"
Admiral "chi  "
Admiral "Spaceace!  "
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: Ged. . . how good is he?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:35:08 GMT

In article <weWluPS00Vp3I4mmlx@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	I know that I lot of people sneer at Michael Moore for his whimpering
>on R.G.N. but they just don't understand the power of the man.  Think
>about it. . .
>
>He can base better than Balton.
>He can always avoid an Ogg from lame players like MUCUS PIG and Val Ckurai.
>He can outfight Mojo Riser with one hand behind his back.
>He NEVER misses a phaser lock.
>He understands that DDs are more powerful than BBs.
>He has more understanding of Netrek philosophy than Red Shirt and Sun
>Tzu combined.
>

	As I said before, it is not that I have ever sought to assert
that I was better than others, but that those who were exhalted were
underserving.

	I cannot base better than balton, I think I can base as well,
and I think many others also can.  I can generally avoid oggs if I know
they are coming, and this includes MUCUS and Val Ckurai.  I think most
other folks are the same.  As for the rest, it's all wild assertion
with no factual base, so I won't bother addressing them.

	Let me just lay it straight.  One more time.  I consider myself
a competent player, and when I see things such as Balton being exhalted
as the best base, and MUCUS being one of the top 5 players, and yet
I do not have anymore trouble with them than with Wreck or Gadfly,
I speak out about that.

	You of course want to keep the pinnacle of CMU excellence in 
pristine tact, so you see all my assertions that these folks are not
any better than scores of others as attacks.  You translate my
willingness to speak out into arrogance, for in your mind that is
what it truly is.  How dare Ged speak out against his betters.  He's
not *even* from CMU...

--
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Moore                      \  "Art is best known through its |
|Evans & Sutherland Employee         \  highest representative, not   |
|University of Utah Student          /  through those who daub."      |
|Email      : mmoore@dsd.es.com     /                                 |
|Home Phone : (801) 359-6552        \                                 |
|Office     : (801) 582-5847 x 4721  \    -ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice)
Subject: Killfiles
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:15:01 GMT

So how about it. Can anyone add a killfile so that certain people
that you do not mesh well with will automatically be ignored
if you log into a server that they happen to be playing at.

Matthew

oh and while were at it. Why the hell can't bases take planets.
It would just get them ogged faster :-?
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: different approach for INL
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:18:49 GMT
Organization: CS

In article <Bt6x3o.CC5@cs.psu.edu> petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak) writes:
>Why not, instead of having teams from specific schools, have a 'draft' at the
>beginning of the season. Simply make a list of people who want to play and
>let the captains draft their team. This way, captains will have to keep in 
>mind choosing someone to play their base, their oggers, etc. In addition, you
>will no longer have to solve the at large problem as most teams would probably
>automatically be at-large. 

Lots of people want to play along side their friends...

Scheduling AL teams is a bitch, this would make it even harder.

Timezone differences become a constant hassle...

Personally, I like the idea, but it's been shot down before...  I think 
this was brought up in the INL council, but was backburnered with more
pressing problems being worked on.

-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rg@msel.unh.edu (Roger Gonzalez)
Subject: Re: GB/GG netlagged game
Organization: UNH Marine Systems Engineering Lab
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:29:15 GMT


No, it was 12-8 when the lag hit.  When I got back from my -first- ghostbust,
you guys had taken 2 more planets, including vega.  And you were flat too,
since we had just done a one-run base ogg, killing 25 armies.  Unfortunately
our scout bombers kept flying directly into BB phasers due to the lag.  Not
much skill required to exploit this situation.

Soda may have been lagged, but "traceroute" showed ping time DOUBLING as it
went through the cs gateway.

>My team has lost a number of away games with horrible lag; it's part of the
>game.  Our lag was also horrible, but Sun 3/50 players are much more adept at
>playing with lag than most.

We didn't lose, we quit due to network problems.  On the assumption that a new
game should be scheduled.  If you wish to call it a win, then kindly call it a
win by forfeit.

Other than our lack of armies, I actually believe that we were out-playing you
by out-dogfighting and out-ogging you before the lag hit.  But then, that's my
opinion..

-Rogue




--
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting
 than the question of whether a submarine can swim" - Edsger W. Dijkstra 

Roger Gonzalez   -  rg@msel.unh.edu
Division of Bit Banging and Reluctant Robotics
UNH Marine Systems Engineering Laboratory, Durham, NH  03824-3525
(603) 862-4600 -4399 (fax)

Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 03:52:51 -0400 
From: "Robert W. Hill" <rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SINL PLAYOFF UNOFFICIAL RANKING
	<1992Aug15.062814.7945@dsd.es.com>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 15-Aug-92 Re: SINL PLAYOFF
UNOFFICIAL.. Michael Moore@itchy.dsd. (2118)


Uh oh...looks like mike has more opinions that I disagree with....

> 	Buddy, at large teams deserve far more than just a win in
> tie-breaker situations.  Like home team advantage no matter what,
> if I had my way.

> 	Sure, team Crack-in-the-ass (sorry, Crack Pot) probably
> played a bit stronger than the 12AM, but big surprise.  They're
> sitting in the same goddamn room, they all know each other, they sleep 
> with each other's wives.  We on the other hand started out not even
> knowing each other's names, and by the time we were done we were a
> force to be reckoned with.

> 		The 12 Angry Men deserved to play in the tournament far more
> than team Crack-in-the-ass.  And if you can't see that, you're clearly from 
> CMU.

> 	Need I remind you how fitting it is that 12AM held the fate of
> team CrackPot, after they asserted a win under the most incredibly
> unfavourable of circumstances (they might as well have pulled the
> ethernet cord).

> 	-Michael (Ged)

For the first year, I liked the tie-break advantage.  Now, it is wrong. 
At large teams are coming closer to bridging the gap with the school
teams.  Next year, I anticipate at least one very skilled at large team,
that may well win it all.

You calling Crackpot "Crack-in-the-ass" shows your stupidity.  12 AM are
not as good as team crackpot.  Yes, i'm from CMU, who gives a f*ck? 
They are better, and they deserved to be in the playoffs.  

Somebody a few posts back said that it was pretty bad that the teams
that made the playoffs were simply the teams that didn't play AA.  
Crackpot could've certainly given the ogglies a run for their money, and
I think they would have crushed the angry men in similar form to
tonight's AA beating party.

Now that i've done my angry bashing to appease my own anger related to
ged's post, let me say congrats to the angry men.  You had a good run,
and I look forward to seeing your fall team.

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: gosselin@ll.mit.edu (Dave Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Somethings Wrong at Doorstop
Summary: Cool I'm an Admiral now ;-)
Keywords: messed up
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:00:57 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

There is something seriously broken at doorstop.design.iastate.edu, I
just logged in to see if anyone was on and to fool around.  Much to my
suprise I found that I had Inf DI (beat that 8-).  Every time I died I
was promoted. Interesting. I figured I check this out with a fresh
character who had NaN DI. That character too was promoted (with no
t-mode hours 8-).  I think the server god may want to take a look.

dave                         
aka: Admiral Tom Servo (not as much fun as getting there the real way 8-(
gosselin@ll.mit.edu
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INL COUNCIL... If you want to see something...Re: At Large Teams
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:25:19 GMT
Organization: CS

If you have a concern that you think should be addressed to the INL council,
please, don't hesitate to email it to an INL council member, and it will be
brought up.

You're welcome to mail them to me, I'm on the council, and will bring them up
at the first opportunity...

Or contact "your" INL representative, let's see, there's
Mojo, myself, Spaceace!, Fillintheblank, Washout, Austere? (sp?), and
Bill Bathurst(sorry Bill, don't remember character...)

Email addresses are:

inlcouncil: 
osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Mr. CPU)
bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Argh, don't remember)
hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu (Spaceace!)
tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Mojo Riser, head dude)
jive@grumpy.ssc.gov (Fillintheblank)
polk@hapner.metaphor.com (Washout)
sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Austere?)

Get those cards and letters coming...

Please, if you do email something to me, put "INL COUNCIL" or some easily
recognizable in the Subject header, so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle...
i
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: SINL finals
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 16 Aug 92 10:34:59 GMT

stimpy+@cmu.edu (Rick) writes:
| We just see no need to play a final game between subs.

 Rather than cause difficulties with team scheduling, the Commanders
played the Arrogant Assholes with a team that was roughly half last
minute subs. Once I thought I made the right decision in doing that;
now I am no longer certain.

 It would have been nice if the two team captains involved would
have at least made a pretense of asking the (S)INL head/council
for guidance on how to proceed before deciding.

--
	"Apart from the side-mounted railguns, I demand very little
	 from my car but that it get me around in reasonable comfort
	 and dubious safety."				- J Greely
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: healy@elec.uq.oz.au (Tim Healy)
Subject: Re: Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions List
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 10:06:05 GMT

Sorry one other advantage i just thought of is that with this
method is that you get credit for ogging a sb.

Tim Healy
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: More worst moments ...
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:54:21 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <l8fsupINNl9v@ar-rimal.cs.utexas.edu> brinkley@cs.utexas.edu (Paul Brinkley) writes:
>You know, I lose more ships on account of finger-to-keyboard-interface
>failure...

I don't usually have much of a problem snuffing people; there's lots of tender
meat out there, and getting a kill is usually not a problem.

Then along comes that twit Spaceace!.

Last week sometime I was playing on a team against him, and got toasted
REPEATEDLY because he kept tractoring me into his torp streams (bloody 2500 DI
hours-scum has it down to an art form).  My keymap was tractor=z, pressor=x,
torp=t, phaser/steer on mouse.  Every time I tried to fight, I was either
so busy trying to pressor that I never got a shot off and got phasered to
death, or I tried to shoot back and always sucked his torps up after hitting
him maybe twice.  When I tried to do both at once, my fingers turned into
partially cooked pasta and did interesting things like make my shields drop.

So, thanks to Rob's inconsiderate slaughter, I'm changing my keymap to the
Industry Standard r=press,t=tractor,d=torp setup.  We'll see if this works
any better (once I get used to it).  I have a bad feeling that I'm going to
panic and fire a long stream of tractor beams at onrushing opponents... I've
been using 't' for torps since '87.

(Just for the record, I stopped him from ogging me TWICE that game.  Ha, not
so tough with your cloaking device on, are you?)

((We won't talk about the time I got a phaser lock on his scout, and he
uncloaked and wasted my CA before scurrying off.  Very rude.  He must've
been flying a blessed borg.))

>Paul Brinkley

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Xref: sparky rec.games.netrek:5337 news.answers:2509
From: irw@bharh58.bnr.co.uk (Ian Woollard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Possible method for doing reserved.c
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:36:17 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

All these clever schemes for checking that the server is talking to
the correct client! Unfortunately there is still one (and I suspect
very difficult) problem:

How do we know that the client is talking to a real user?

Imagine a 'meta' borg. One that uses the same interface that the user
does, but might/might-not provide a different one to the real user.

-Ian.
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Unhappy
Date: 16 Aug 92 08:57:01 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <8eXUChW00VpNEQHmJG@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>1) From the perspective of a team sport, it makes sense to have only one
>team from each school.  From the perspective of having a lot of good
>games it makes more sense to allow multiple teams from schools which
>want them and can field them.  If the INL chooses not to serve players
>who want to play in quality games, then it will be time to replace it.

Not to mention people who aren't in school, but play from work, eg Sam Shen
(15 minutes, among other aliases) and Ray Jones.  I bet there aren't 12 people
at their companies who have even heard of netrek, much less play it...

One thing, tho, is taking people from other schools.  I heard that USC took
players from CalTech and (ugh) UCLA and incorporated them into Team `SC.
Should this be allowed?

>... (Val Ckurai had
>to come in and play sick last night so that GBO would not out-number RS
>8-7).

Yikes.  I don't even want to THINK about him being healthy... him and
Heimdall did the most damage...

> As for GBO, I'm sure that many of us will play many of you in the fall.
> Perhaps you'd like a CMU-UCB clue game sometime before them?

Sure, leave ME out of the fun.

5150
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: lectro@milton.u.washington.edu (Jonathan E. Maier)
Subject: Re: Playing with lag
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:59:44 GMT

In article <Bsy9LL.5wD.1@cs.cmu.edu> jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick) writes:
>mehlhaff@soda.Berkeley.EDU (ERic Mehlhaff) writes
>> 	The primary abuse I can see from this is that their opposition might
>> realize this and be waiting for them to reappear at that point.  Obvious
>> solutions to that are to displace randomly (if enemies are near? ).
>> 
>> What'cha all think?
>
>Yes please!  LPS?  No problem.  Cloak to within, say, an inch of the
>planet, just about where the torp storm starts to get real heavy.
>Pull your connector/Ctrl-Z the process/whatever.  Wait awhile for torp
>storm to die down.  Restart.  Take planet.
>
Maybe lag could be turned into an interesting "feature".  Instead of
calling it a "lag", call it a "wormhole"!!  Wormholes randomly displace
a player from his origin (space and time; how about distance proportional
to lag time).  The result could be worse/better for the player but would
at least not make him a sitting duck.  When a person hits a wormhole,
the fact could could be automatically broadcast to his team-mates (and
perhaps the enemy if one was near when it happened).  Perhaps when the
player re-enters from the wormhole, their orientation and speed could be
totally different from what it was.  Also, no subjective time should pass
for the player, so their damage/shield/temp should be exactly the same.

Just some thoughts,

  Jonathan E. Maier             # ## #                lectro@u.washington.edu
 -----------------------------  # ## #  --------------------------------------
  Weekend Operator             ## ## ##              University of Washington
  UCS Operations              ##  ##  ##                  Seattle, Washington
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: Mucus... how good is he?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:25:10 GMT

In article <geWlUgi00VpH8JgdUl@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>
>
>Geez, I think *I'm* better than some of these people and I know I'm
>not as good as MUCUS (from watching him play).
>
>
>ZZnew guy and I looked at the list and found 9 players we thought were
>"around 9" players on the list who were better than MUCUS.  No, he
>isn't in the top 5 players, probably not even in the top 10 but he is
>still very good.
>

	This is all so horribly subjective.  I won't argue you with
you over MUCUS's effectiveness, but I will point out that the list
is of those I consider to be as effective as MUCUS, not , I repeat,
not *better*.

--
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Moore                      \  "Art is best known through its |
|Evans & Sutherland Employee         \  highest representative, not   |
|University of Utah Student          /  through those who daub."      |
|Email      : mmoore@dsd.es.com     /                                 |
|Home Phone : (801) 359-6552        \                                 |
|Office     : (801) 582-5847 x 4721  \    -ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rone@alcor.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the statboy:  SINL standings as of 8/13/92, evening...
Date: 14 Aug 1992 00:35:40 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: alcor.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug14.013747.7060@coe.montana.edu> osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) writes:
>     12M  HB   MA   CP   TC   RS   LU   GBO  SOD  AA   CD   GB    GG    w/l
>     --- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- |--- | --- | ---
>HB   12M                 TC   RS                                        0/3
>LU                                           LU   AA        GB          1/2

Since Hell's Bagels and Lagg U are the only teams with 3 games played, this
leads me to believe that they may be shirking.  Finish your games!! :-)

5150
never leaves things done halfways
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SINL playoffs
Summary: Huh?
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:01:09 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Maryland at College Park

rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert W. Hill) writes:	
>I think the at-large tie break advantage should be removed.

Agreed.  I think the distinction between local and at-large teams
should be removed completely; yes, I realize the huge disadvantages
under which at-large teams are already playing.


>The point of having "playoffs" is to see who the best team is.  The
>best teams SHOULD go to the playoffs.

Still no argument.


>Crackpot is clearly better than the angry men, they SHOULD have gotten a 
>playoff berth.

Having played the Early 12AM Team at home and Team Crack Pot away, I would
say that 12 AM is arguably better than Team CP; it is certainly not clear
that Team Crack Pot is better.

- Gamera


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mmoore@itchy.dsd.es.com (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: Mucus... how good is he? 
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:12:49 GMT

In article <IeWl=jW00Vp3A4ml1d@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>	Of course, this is all in perspective.  Ged thinks that He is better
>than Balton in a base.
>

	I never said this.  I hate to resurrect an old thread, but
what I said was that I could hold my own with him.  But naturally,
when folks at CMU read that some Utahn named "Ged" thought he was
as good as Balton at basing, they made him out to be an arrogant SOB.
And from there it is a simple mental translation to believe he said he
was better, after the sheer arrogance of asserting equalness, it is
easy to understand.

	I say also that I can hold my own with MUCUS.  

	And you know, throughout all my assertions it has not been
that I felt I was better than anyone else, but that those whom I
attacked were no better than scores of others out there, myself
included.


	-Michael (Ged)

--
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Michael Moore                      \  "Art is best known through its |
|Evans & Sutherland Employee         \  highest representative, not   |
|University of Utah Student          /  through those who daub."      |
|Email      : mmoore@dsd.es.com     /                                 |
|Home Phone : (801) 359-6552        \                                 |
|Office     : (801) 582-5847 x 4721  \    -ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------