From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Date: 16 Aug 92 06:18:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23463
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <4864@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:

>Boy that sounds suspiciously like one of those nonsensical conservative 
>economic arguments against affirmative action. "If one company discriminates,
>its going to cost X amount more to operate. Then they're going to lose to
>the competition. Therefore, in a free market, there cannot be any 
>discrimination. And I have the Econometric model to PROVE it." Yeah right.
Does it now?  I've seen the same anti AA arguments, and frankly, I
see no similarity whatsoever.  Then again, since I'm white,
you color your expectations properly for my race, yes?

I also know that in my field, finding people of marginal competance
and capability is damned hard, and excluding asians and other
minorities would both require rewriting history and abandoning
about 50% of the basic science for starters.  Seems to be like a very good
argument for diversity, yes?
>Look the onus should not be on one group or the other. Its a problem that
Absolutely.  I hope it doesn't look like I'm suggesting that
the minority is RESPONSIBLE for the situation.  Implicit in the
whole idea of simple equality is the responsiblity of all parties.

>faces both groups, but seems to affect us, AAs, much more than whites.
>What happens when we complain that we're being treated poorly? We get 
>shot down as a bunch of whiners who have nothing better to do than complain.
Do you?   Now, I know I haven't been saying that, I'm QUITE
sure I haven't been saying that, therefore I wonder why
you bring it up in a post replying to me.  I do point out
that others also have similar experiences, but that does 
ANYTHING but deny your experiences, now, does it?  The
human race as a long and sad record, even before race is
considered.

>From your argument, I guess that you agree that people that bring EEOC suits
>should have the onus of proving that they were discriminated against.
Well, yes, indeed. What else would you suggest, that people
who bring EEOC suits not have to prove their complaint?
The person bringing the suit must be able to show the
discrimination against THAT person, not against a class
of people, or by a class of people.  Individuals are all
you can change, not "society". Society is nothing but
a rude averaging of individuals.

>The onus is on me to Prove that the white man discriminates. Just what he
>wants to hear. 
Come again?  How do you get FROM a proposal that we all benefit
from equality and that one tool (hardly the only one) of the
minority is to point the advantags of equality, TO "...prove that the
white man discriminates..."?  Now, I also said that creating fear
doesn't help, and I surely do mean that.  If you paralyze or
enrage those you wish enlightened, you've lost in advance.

This, of course, most surely holds for all sides.

This is rather curious, since the need for establishing an equality
rather firmly stipulates some sort of inequity, now, doesn't it?

After all, if there was no discrimination, there'e be no need
to worry about equality in the first place, now, would
there?  Methinks you contradict yourself badly.  That's why I
think what you read is colored by your knowledge of who said it.

The suggesting of an actual solution to a problem necessarily
stipulates the problem, yes?
-- 
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