HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:53:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Sep11.200405.22799@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>In article <AWERLING.92Sep11124805@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>>You can continue to, without supporting the claim, state that I fail
>>to back up my assertions.  Show me the logical flaws and I'll respond
>>to them.  Just saying that I'm repeating myself without further
>>explanation just makes you look like someone without a real argument
>>to fall back on.
>
>Mr. Werling, you have yet to DISPLAY any logic, therefore I am unable
>to point out logical flaws for you.
>You have simply continued to assert that telling children
>of one's religious beliefs that being gay is sinful is immoral.

He also claimed that teaching other forms of bigotry is immoral,
a claim to which you also objected.

>I have been and continue to be skeptical of that claim. You, sir,
>have the burden of proof. I have and am asking you again to meet
>that burden. If you refuse to do so, the only rational conclusion
>to make is that you are unable to do so.

Perhaps Mr. Rescorla, you could be a bit clearer about what your point
is.  How the hell do you prove that anything is immoral?  Can you
prove that murder is immoral?  Would it be immoral of me to teach
my children that all people with a last name of "Rescorla" are evil
and should be exterminated?  Presumably, you would object if I did
this, so if it's the word "immoral" that you object to, perhaps you
could provide an alternate rational argument for why I should not teach
my kids this.  I'm betting that any argument you can come up with
applies equally well to preaching any other kind of bigotry, including
that against homosexuals.
--
Doug Graham          Unk, the big trouble with dumb bastards is that they
dgraham@bnr.ca       are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being
My own opinions.     smart.    --Kurt Vonnegut from _The Sirens of Titan_
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:17:10 -0400 
From: Paul Joseph Mitchell <pm3z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Troops near the Reston, VA area?

Robert H Zakon writes:

> What BSA troops are closest to the Reston, VA area?

I'm an Eagle Scout and former member of BSA Troop 893, based out of the
Centreville United Methodist Church, in Centreville, VA.  I know that's
not exactly right next to Reston (about 30min drive), but I thought I'd
at least make that information available.  If you need any information
on Troop 893, I'd be happy to supply it to you.

------------------------------------------------------------
Paul J. Mitchell				      Carnegie Mellon University
pm3z@andrew.cmu.edu			    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm going to Disney World!"
The views expressed are those of the author only.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:00:49 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Aug28.145408.23904@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:
>
>[...]
>>  Shouldn't we also withdraw support
>>for the Girl Scouts since they don't admit boys or allow men to be the
>>troop leader?
>
>(Speaking of United Way funding only.) An interesting question.
>

But one based on a flawed premise.  Girl Scouts do allow men as troop leaders -
the only restriction is that there must also be a female co-leader.
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
Seen passing on the net:  Spotted Owl - the *other* white meat!
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<hill.715984293@galena12>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:44:06 GMT

In article <hill.715984293@galena12> hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:

-   katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes (and I agree):

- >Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
- >bigotry hurts children.

- That is your opinion of me....Since you know nothing of me except my opinion of
- this issue, I think you have very little to pass judgement on.

Something to do with the way in which you approach a very sensitive
subject that has everything to do with children.

- I am sorry that you disagree with my opinion or that you disapprove of my 
- parenting techniques, but it is my perogative to raise my children as I
- see fit and to do for them what I consider to be in their best interests.

In other words, it's okay to brainwash them into hating themselves
and/or other people?  Your prerogative to do that?  I don't think so.
I call it child abuse.

- If it disagrees with your opinion, so be it, but back off the name-calling.

Every time a gay teen-ager commit suicide, I'll be sure to "back off."
After all, I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.

-   It is offensive and certainly not constructive to this discussion.

As offensive as promoting self-hate in the nation's youth.

-   You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

Opinions are fine.  Child abuse is not.

--
Andrew Werling    awerling@nmsu.edu    yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"Jesus is coming, look busy."
          --from a button I bought in an Albuquerque bookstore.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:59:55 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep8160523@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.000513.26065@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>- In any case, you have simply repeated what Ms. Beatty asserted,
>- not provided any substantiation for the claim. Your repetition
>- of the claim does nothing to support it. Perhaps you would care
>- actually substantiate it?
>
>You have a teenage homosexual who's told he is unfit to be a Boy
>Scout, who's told he is sick, who's told he's going to hell...
>
>He's kind of screwed across the board, isn't he?
Yeah, so what's your point? Emotional appeals will do nothing
to substantiate your claim that such a thing is immoral.

Suppose he really IS going to hell. Is it immoral to tell him
the truth?

Are you going to present an argument, or just keep repeating
yourself?


-Ekr


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: bwilliam@iat.holonet.net (Bill Williams)
Subject: Re: Net.Citizen.Arrest Of Net.Citizen Attempted
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:08:29 GMT

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that out of the TOTAL NUMBER OF TERABYTES
OF PACKETS that travel over the internet backbone each month under 2% is
devoted towards newsgroup forwarding.

And since several services (such as Holonet) cost $2 per hour at 14,400
baud total, and you could do a lot of posting in an hour the total cost IN
REAL DOLLARS for a single post, when prepared offline for downloading, is
less than ONE CENT per post PER MACHINE.

so if 20,000 people are totally offended by your post and are all end
recipients and have to delete it for just their sake, you have AT THE MOST
EXTREME caused $200 damage to the entire UseNet.

It is nice to keep cross posting to a minimum, but the software I am using
RIGHT NOW (TIN) does not seem to be able to edit it at all, even if I was
trying to be kind and alert, myself.

screw the christian (I'll bet) censors. Use all the bandwidth you want,
we'll make more.


Bill Williams
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:29:41 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

In article <1992Sep11.013554.18874@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>B of A took this to mean that the BSA was "open to all boys" [Quote
>from the B of A press release]. According to posting by a person who
>spoke to the B of A after the press release was released, the B of A
>didn't not [realize] that Scout oath and law precluded gay boys.

mayne@pi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne) writes:

>Actually it doesn't. It is just some people's interpretation of it
>which does.
[...]

I'll rephrase: "According to posting by a person who spoke to the B of
A after the press release was released, the B of A didn't not
[realize] that official interpretation of Scout oath and law precluded
gay boys."

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:50:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rescorla for himself.

In article <BuAA0t.3vI@acsu.buffalo.edu> omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies) writes:
>In <1992Sep8.225955.10215@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>>Suppose he really IS going to hell. Is it immoral to tell him
>>the truth?
>
>    He can say all he wants to...  It's what he *does* and what
>fundies are *doing* that I object to.  You can talk to you're blue in
>the face, just to *make* me listen to it.
I believe that Mr. Werling was asserting something different.

>>Are you going to present an argument, or just keep repeating
>>yourself?
>
>I dunno depend on you really.
Huh?

I have asked Mr. Werling to back up his assertion twice now. He
just keeps repeating himself. You should feel free to back it
up for him. I have yet to see ANYONE do so.
-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: San Diego BSA recent action
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:21:21 GMT

[A repost from a mailing list - Carl]

Date: 11 Sep 92 07:44:22
[...]
Subject: San Diego Boy Scouts

                      San Diego Boy Scouts
I saw last night on the news (KCAL Channel 9 in LA) that the San Diego County
Council of the BSA is in a little bit of hot water with the city.  The council
leases land from the city for its offices and aquatics facility.  Last summer,
the city manager informed the council that by discriminating against gays, they
were violating the city's anti-discrimination law (called the "Human Dignity"
law.  Cool name!).  The city manager said that he really didn't put much more
thought into it until an Explorer advisor came out and was then kicked out.  It
turns out that this man is also a San Diego police officer, and now the city
manager is pissed.  (No time for a discussion on double standards here)  He's
investigating what kind of recourse the city has.

Any additional information from Gaynetters in San Diego would be appreciated!

[....]
 Former Boy Scout and Scout Camp Employee
[...]
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Clarkson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:53:22 GMT

farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell) writes:

>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>>In article <Bu9KrG.510@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:

By the way, my posting was directed toward Jack Schmidling
and not Steve Dyer. Jack was the one who wrote what I quoted.

BRI FARENELL
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:3041 alt.discrimination:4342 chi.general:1108 alt.atheism:17087 alt.politics.homosexuality:5924
From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 12 Sep 92 05:01:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Sep11.193841.22336@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>In article <AWERLING.92Sep11122915@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>>I've been asked to support my claim that telling a gay teen-ager
>>s/he's immoral, sinful, sick, going to hell, etc. is IMMORAL.
>>
>>Basic evidence:  You're dealing with a kid.  You should NEVER try to
>>make a kid feel bad about themselves.
>More proof by blatant assertion.
>
>>Unless, of course, you feel good about making a teenager commit
>>suicide.
>Emotional appeals will not have any effect on my, Mr. Werling.
>
>Please substantiate your claim.

Which part of his claim do you want substantiated?

  That telling a gay teenager that s/he is immoral, sinful, sick,
  going to hell, etc. destroys the kid's self esteem and often leads
  the kid to suicide, or

  That it is wrong to teach kids things that destroy their self
  esteem and lead them to suicide?
--
Doug Graham          Unk, the big trouble with dumb bastards is that they
dgraham@bnr.ca       are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being
My own opinions.     smart.    --Kurt Vonnegut from _The Sirens of Titan_
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:53:07 GMT

daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:

>In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com>, katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>> Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
>> bigotry hurts children.

>Now that shows real class Kathy.  Win them over to your side with calm
>well thought out arguments. NOT!  Being offensive and calling anyone who
>dares to disagree with you is just another form of intollerance.  Name
>calling is a childish display that only hurts your position.

I couldn't agree with you more Dave.  This comment by Kathy is the 
most offensive I can remember.  It will encourage me to figure out how
to use a kill file, but it will certainly not encourage anyone with a 
view to than Kathy's to reconsider their view.
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Robert D. Losee                 BITNET: ucas402@unlvm
University of Nebraska          Internet: rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu
Lincoln NE  68588-0496          Phone: (402) 472-7663
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<BuAA6E.3yo@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1992Sep8.235544.10895@cs.yale.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:31:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.235544.10895@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:

-   Please, explain what led you to believe that I would interfere with
-   your choices.

Hmm.  Screaming "Yer going to hell" IS an interference....if you think
teenagers have adult faculties you're sorely mistaken.  Cognitive
development continues into the twenties.

-   And FYI. I'm not a chemist.
 
Who cares?

--
Andrew Werling    awerling@nmsu.edu    yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"Jesus is coming, look busy."
          --from a button I bought in an Albuquerque bookstore.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Sep11.193841.22336@cs.yale.edu> <BuIw6I.5D0@ddsw1.mcs.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:54:20 GMT

In article <BuIw6I.5D0@ddsw1.mcs.com> zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh) writes:

- I too think that it is immoral to make a kid feel bad 'bout himself,
- but that's in my morality.  If for you it isn't immoral, then go ahead and
- do it if you want, it's your choice, you have the right to say anything you
- please.

I'm reading sarcasm into your post.  I hope I'm right.

- Love, and do what thou wilt.

Heh.  An oxymoron, in many cases.

--
Andrew Werling    awerling@nmsu.edu    yip@acca.nmsu.edu
Transmitting from Planet Yip--where everyone you meet 
			      is already dead.
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:02:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In <1992Sep14.125307.29552@unlinfo.unl.edu> rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:

>daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:

>>In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com>, katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>>> Karen Hill, you are an immoral, ignorant bigot. Your immoral, ignorant
>>> bigotry hurts children.

>>Now that shows real class Kathy.  Win them over to your side with calm
>>well thought out arguments. NOT!  Being offensive and calling anyone who
>>dares to disagree with you is just another form of intollerance.  Name
>>calling is a childish display that only hurts your position.

>I couldn't agree with you more Dave.  This comment by Kathy is the 
>most offensive I can remember.  It will encourage me to figure out how
>to use a kill file, but it will certainly not encourage anyone with a 
>view to than Kathy's to reconsider their view.

But she's (katy) right.

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** _______________________________ All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * |   omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu   | otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |  any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    -------------------------------    anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2893 alt.discrimination:4175 chi.general:1017 alt.atheism:16706 alt.politics.homosexuality:5757
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:20:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Sep8.012821.26909@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
|> In article <pio27c8@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|>
|> >Well, supposing that to be true, so what?   If people are bad
|> >judges of their own psychology, what qualifies you to judge 
|> >the psychology of others?   Nothing, would be my first guess.
|>
|> That's right. And as far as I can tell, the psychological data
|> on the topic are pretty inconclusive, so I'm reserving judgement
|> on the whole issue. I.e. I'm skeptical of people who claim
|> that sexual preference is innate and I'm skeptical of people
|> who claim that it's experiential. Is that an acceptable
|> thought pattern for me to hold, Mr. Livesey?

Skepticism is almost always an acceptable thought pattern.

|> 
|> >So probably we would all be better off with you letting people 
|> >live the life they feel best with, so long as they don't harm 
|> >other people doing it.   
|> And who said I wasn't doing that?
|> This, Mr. Livesey, is the second time you have implied that
|> I am trying to control the lives of others. Do you have any
|> reason to believe this?

Only what you yourself write.        For example, from  <1992Sep7.154140.22115@cs.yale.edu> you write:

    "If I wish that people not treat me equally well, but 
    "help" me (I.e. try to make me straight) if I am gay, 
    then I would naturally treat others in the same way.

When I read "try to make me XXX", I think that someone is 
going to be doing something to try to control someone.

And when you label this as 'natural', then I think that
you agree with the attempt.  

Of course, if what you really meant was that trying to 
"make someone straight" is always unacceptable without 
their explicit request, no matter what other people might
think about it, then I agree.

jon.
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Date: 5 Sep 92 15:19:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Sep04.175030.23595@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>      The BSA policy discussion are wholly within the realm of the
>rec.scouting charter.  

They BSA policy discussions may fit in the charter.  But, people outside of
the USA are getting tired of reading a lot of messages that don't affect them.
The distribution should be limited to usa.

>They also do not prevent using the group for "legitimate" scouting
>discussions.

It depends on what you mean by prevent.  No, it doesn't make them impossible.
But, many people have given up sorting though the noise to find something
they are interested in.  This is one of four Scout related discussions that
I read.  The concensus in the other groups is forget rec.scouting; it's not
worth reading.  Almost everyone who wouldd be influnced by a discussion on
BSA policy has been driven away.  The people who are doing most of the posting
(on both sides) won't be convinced.  

>>But there is a little matter of "netiquette" too, and one of the rules
>>of netiquette is that you don't post articles unrelated to the newsgroup,
>>and you don't cross-post to unrelated newsgroups, which is what you've
>>done with impunity in order to get your agenda across.

Rule number one for building a KILL file, if it's crossposted, delete it.
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality