From: rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Do you have any children?
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:29:22 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech CERL/EE, Atlanta, Ga

In article <C189LL.1BD@news.rich.bnr.ca> ethridge@crchh403 (Allen Ethridge) writes:
|Richard Pitts (rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu) wrote:
|: In article <C14A36.DwH@news.rich.bnr.ca> ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge) writes:
|: >In article <80709@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|: >>Because some people see it as amazing that we exist to start with, not
|: >>that we die, but that we lived at all.
|: >
|: >And some of us can't figure out why anyone would want to spoil the wonder
|: >and mystery of existence by postulating the unsubstantiated existence of
|: >a god, especially a god that was so mean, self-centered and irresponsible
|: >as to take all the credit for the good but none of the blame for the bad.
|: 
|: But it seems here (or at least in some parts of society) that man
|: is a good person and has no faults :-), for man will surely save the
|: world in spite of all the evil that man brings against others.
|: Does man want to take credit for the good and not for the bad, too?
|
|Who is this "man" you refer to?  I know of no such creature.  Some

man = mankind - sorry for any confusion, but I'm not sure there was any.

|humans are more responsible than others, some are more capable of
|responsibility than others.  Are you saying that since humans aren't
|perfect it's okay for god to be "mean, self-centered and irresponsible?"

Some people are more responsible and no, I don't think it is ok 
to be mean.

Some groups think that man needs no regulation.  (e.g., one guy down 
the hall from me, who tends toward being a Libertarian; Libertarians, 
who seem to advocate repealing many if not practically all laws; 
Shirley MaClaine, who advocates becoming God, ...)  

However, mankind's actions prove otherwise.  

|: How do you suppose this evil tendency arose in mankind, for you do
|: believe mankind isn't all peachy-clean, don't you?  Look at the
|: newspapers, TV, the prisons, down your street, our own selves.
|: 
|: Mankind is not all perfect as some would want you to believe.
|: We have a freewill and we have a nature that tends toward evil.
|
|What is this "evil tendency" in mankind?  Good and evil are human concepts,
|and relative to particular cultures and events.  Your belief in
|this evil only tells me that there are things you don't like; it tells
|me nothing of the world.

I believe there are some absolutes - you most likely do, too.  For 
example in the physcial world we hold the laws of physics, as best
as we understand them, to be constant AND in the social/moral area
we surely hold murder, adultery, and rape as wrong, not just things we 
don't like.

Could there not be absolutes in other areas of morality or Spirituality?  

|: I believe we as a whole are in need of help, for we can't bring
|: about perfection on our own.  Look how long people have been 
|: around and yet crime is still on the increase.  Tyranical world 
|: rules continue to bring havoc on the world.
|
|You look only at the unpleasant - great positive strides have been made.
|Open your eyes - you might be suprised.

I know this - yet inspite of all of our "good"/"positive" advancements
we still have many problems.

|No, we can't bring about perfection, on our own or otherwise - perfection
|is like god - impossible and unnecessary.  Maybe we will progress to great
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, is this an abosolute???  Seems like you think it is, but it can't
be, can it?  Explain.

|enlightenment, through natural occurances outside of human control, or perhaps
|we will destroy ourselves.  Does it really matter?

I believe we will be changed by the Creator God, when he brings the
things we know and see to an end.  He will make his home with those
who love and obey him and those who don't will not be able to enter
his presense.  Mankind on its own initiative will not bring us to
perfection nor will uncontrolled natural occurances - God is the
Sovereign of the Universe.

|Why must you insist that you are so important that the whole universe
|should share your values?  Or is it this god of yours that teaches you
|such arrogance and ignorance?  And why does he bend your head so that you
|can only see "evil?"

If these are absolutes, would you not think God, who enlightened us,
would not want us to share them?

There is evil and there is good.  Do you not see the evil?  I see both.

|You make too many assumptions.  All there is in life is this moment.  If
|you waste this moment, either through worrying over the "evil" in the world
|or seeking divine intervention, you've wasted a wonderful gift.
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this another absolute?  Explain.  Isn't wasted a relative term that
requires a standard?

|As Jim Morrison once said: "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting
|the dawn."

The Scriptures tell us in a rhetorical question that we cannot escape
if we ignore the salvation provided by Jesus' once and for all work for us.

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu  |    Love and Worship God the Father and His Son, 
                      --|--            the Creator of the Earth. 
Pro-Life!          -|-  |  -|-  Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility! |   |   |   before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6 
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc