From: payne@ecf.toronto.edu (PAYNE DENISE JOYCE)
Subject: Re: isn't it funny how...
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:05:19 GMT


Man... I get on RMI and within 2 months I'm in major flame wars... why doesnt
this happen anywhere else? think before you answer.
 
Lucky I dont quote. Who was all that that said something about bandwidth
abuse? I see alot of posts with 2 lines of new material and 60 lines of
a full quote of the previous article. Yip.
 
Justin is pretty right tho. Not just the stuff he writes here, but his
arguments in general. You dont know me, and you didnt even read what I wrote.
And that sure doesnt tell you how I feel. I'm having a BALL flaming here, as
well as having a few constructive arguments with people who are capable of it.
 
As for this highly subjective thing... you want to get into what ALOT of
people have termed "real" industrial or "experimental industrial". Now, if you
want to make meaningful communications, you're going to have to settle on a f
ew concessions of commonality. YOUR definition of industrial is going to have
to be somewhat similar to what everyone is agrees is the average consensus.
I'll grugingly grant you that FLA and the rest are industrial. In RMI. Outside
RMI, its alot easier to swallow, if the other person is heavily into jazz
for example. I'll even let them say Depeche Mode is industrial. 
 
So when we say "experimental industrial" and you want to "get into" it an
you have been talking to MANY people about this "experimental industrial",
then its not YOUR OPINION of what is "experimental industrial" that we're
talking about. Its the general consensus on what that means exactly. And if
you want some help/advice/opinions, it WILL HELP that we're all talking about
somewhat the same thing, cause if you're talking about how to build a road
then I cant help you.
 
I never decided to say that SPK was experimental industrial (when it
first came out). I got this from alot of other people. If you want to
go and try out some Front Line Assembly to get into it, then its up to you.
We've all done it I think, except the lucky ones. Its very empty music, let
me tell you. But thats what my blues and roots friend says about Crash
Worship. Maybe he's right. Mebbe I'm just not trained enough to see
the inherent artful subtleties and flowing passions and emotions and expression
in Front Line Assembly. Mebbe I'm just putting on airs. You HAVE to get
the FLA to make a comparison tho. When you buy your first Neubauten
album break out that FLA again and make an objective comparison, and forget
all ties to familiarity with the FLA when listening. Tell me the
difference.
 
Ya, Test Dept. is alot harder to find that FLA. Well, mebbe not too much,
since Terra Firma's on WaxTrax. I dont know about the rest of their stuff.
I have it, but I dont know where it came from
 
Actually, used record stores are amazing. Check them out. I went to Open Records
in North Miami, and found ALOT of stuff that I am sure is not on sale in
"new" record stores anywhere near there. I bought 34 records there alone. I
dont know where some of this stuff came from, like Master/Slave Relationship
and the like (which I dont like, but... :^) and a Japanese pressing of
Foetus (am I right? I've seen the albums before but in much different covers),
etc, but it was there. And now I have it, and it cost me like $4 a record.
Amazing.' 
 
I really had a good laugh when I read your paragraph about you telling
me to aspire to grandiose humanitarian works. Like saving Salman Rushdie's
butt and the like. I dont know where that came from, but my activism is
doing just fine right now, thanks. I'm gonna try and cover a few lectures
on private corporation ownership of canadian universities with military
interests in my campus' paper. But of course I'm just saying that to
answer what you wrote - what are YOU doing to save the world?
 
As for self expression - I think you need the course - you resorted
to Fuck several times. I had to tell the kids to leave the room a couple
times. sheesh. 

Are you still in diapers? I've been an industrial fan since I was 9. Cause
I called RUSH industrial. I lived in my own little closet, I mean world,
and said "RUSH IS INDUSTRIAL" over and over, and it was. Then I agreed
that if I wanna talk to OTHER people about industrial I'd have to use
what seems to be the common definition. 
 
And people have taken me up on my offers for lists of labels, zines and the
like, and I'll have to coff them up (when I get more time and find
the files). but i will.
 
/kc
Ken P. Chasse
sizone!my_industrial_is_a_steel_mill@ee.ryerson.ca
via payne@ecf.toronto.edu
 (my defitions are not the same as her bombastic jazz, etc.)
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial