Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee)
Subject: Advices to vegi or vegan who might feel weak and Thank you !!
Summary: advices to vegi who feel weak
Keywords: advices of feelinh weak
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:36:13 GMT

Hi, everyone,

  I posted a question about "feeling weak" in Oct 7, and a
lot of caring advices coming from many of you whom I never know.

  I greatly appreciated the messages and e-mails good
advices from a huge number of you. I hope you will forgive
this generic, but sincere, "thank you" to all.

  I have concluded that: 1. I should see a expert.  2. I
should eat at least three meals a day. 3. I should exercise
more.

  I have also compiled all those message into this file,
hoping those good advices from different point of views will
also help other people like me.

  Thanks, Michele, Brian, Jane, Ralph, Tom, debbie, Mike,
          Jim, Randy, John, Barbara, Peter, Cam, and Ted.
  
  Sincerely,

--vlee

-----------------------------------------------------------------
  vlee@cs.toronto.edu        "Born to die, better get prepared."

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: original message

> Hi, every one over the terminal:
> 
> You probably are a vegi like me or a vega like my friend.
> 
> I found that my vega friend doesn't look pretty healthy among other
> classmates, and I also feel inenergetic, and easily-tired 
> more and more easily.
> 
> All other vegi I know in this school look "thin", or "weak"
> from some one else's point of view.
> 
> Are you also thin? also easily tired?
> 
> Is there something wrong or just fine?
> 
> Thanks for listening,
> 
> --vlee
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>   vlee@cs.toronto.edu        "Born to die, better get prepared."

========================================================================

    I don't have any advice to offer, but I do know that this is not
a necessary result of being vegetarian.  I am not thin, and I do not
tire easily.  While I occasionally eat milk, eggs, or cheese, many days
I eat no animal products.  Otherwise, I eat a moderate amount of fat
(neither extra-high nor extra-low).  I do take a multivitamin a few
times a week (on advice of physician, for cause unrelated to vegetarianism).
I eat lots of grain, especially whole grain bread and cereal, and
also fruit, vegetables, and beans in smaller amounts.
    I don't know what the magic formula is, but I usually feel alert
and vigorous.  Generally I only feel weak when I have a cold. Even when I
was a sleep-deprived studier, I felt always tired, but not weak.  I
even get colds less frequently now, but since I gave up eating meat
and studying all night during the same year, I don't know what to give
more credit to.
    I'm sorry if this is not more helpful.  I just wanted to go on
record with evidence that not eating meat doesn't destroy your strength
and vigor.

--Michele Coleman

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Wheat and wheat products such as gluten seems to cause fatigue in
some people. Try to cut out the wheat and see what happens.

-Brian

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Hi! I've just started reading this group and its great!

I've been a veggie for about 11 years and currently enjoy a very busy lifestyle
including an advanced aerobics, step or circuit training class every day! If
anything I could be classed as being 'big', if not 'overweight'. I eat lots -
beans, grains, masses of veggies, nuts (but not raw tomatoes, yeuch!). I
occasionally eat cheese and eggs but not milk. 

I've no real answer for your tiredness problem,except its not true of everyone!
Maybe you need to look at the quantity or variety of food your eating,
how processed / fresh is it, any specific food that makes you feel more tired, ...

I also knew a vegan who was extremly fit and active. She was into weight
training, aerobics, swimming and running, plus studying for a degree.

Jane

========================================================================

Have you or your friend been tested for anemia?  Sometimes, anemia
can be the cause of tiredness.

But beware of people that say you are "too skinny" or "look sick".
For example, an elder person that I know constantly tells me that I "look sick".

They are looking at you through their own view of what is considered 
"normal".  However, what is "normal" is very subjective.

During some weekends, I've have been known to bicycle 100 miles in a
day without feeling very tired, while this elder person gets winded going
up a flight of stairs and walking to the bathroom and back is 
considered the exercise for the day.
And I'm the one who is "sick"! (Go figure that one out!)

-- 
Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state

========================================================================

Victor, it doesn't sound fine to me.  But there can be many reasons why
you feel that way ranging from a nutritional deficiency to your
lifestyle or even to a disease of some sort.  How can we possibly guess
as to what was wrong?  I'm a strict vegetarian and I am strong and
healthy (and work for the school you attend) .  I exercise up to 4
hours a day, so I obviously don't get tired easily :-).  Talk to a
health professional -- just don't buy into any arguments that you need
to stray from a vegetarian diet to be healthy.

Seek real help my friend.
Tom

========================================================================

I'm no doctor, but no, I feel robust, healthy and energetic most of the time.
I am an ovo-lacto veggie, although I eschew the cheese and high fat foods as
much as possible.

I know this sounds very establishmentarian, probably, but I suggest you
take a little trip to your family doctor for a thorough check-up and blood
work-up.  A full blood work-up, to see what all your levels are of such
things as blood "sugar," iron, etc.

Your physician should be able to tell you if you are (a) ill or (b) deficient
in certain things, like maybe iron.  Then, either you and he/she can go over
your diet together or you can visit a registered nutritionist to help make
sure that in your no-doubt hectic collegiate life you aren't missing out on 
some of the things you need to balance your diet.

While it is true, and I've witnessed it in MANY cases, that contrary to the
meat-obessed argument even vegans can quite adequately meet all dietary needs
and be as healthy as--even much healthier than--their omnivorous counterparts,
EVERYONE should gain a basic knowledge of the human body and nutrition.  You
are not going to eat healthy if you don't really know what that means; you are
only going to ensure you become one of the poster children for the meat-lover's
telethon.

We on the net can give you all sorts of advice, but if you are often feeling
weak and tired, there are so many things that could be causing this that you
owe it to yourself to make sure the cause isn't organic and curable/treatable.
         
Then, if after all that, you find you are eating right, exercising, etc., you 
might check to see if some of your meat-eating friends who share your buildings
or workspaces are having similar problems.  You can start looking for external
illness-provokers like sick-building syndrome or environmental pollution, etc.

Good health to you,

debbie p.

========================================================================

I wouldn't call this normal.  Perhaps you are missing something in
your diet.  You should be just as healthy on a vegetarian diet as
on an omnivore diet.

I have been a vegetarian for over 2 years and approaching vegan for
about 1 year, and I have never had more energy.  I also exercise
regularly; I run up to 15 miles each week.  I never feel weak unless
I push extra hard and raise my mileage in one run.

I am thin (6'2", 180lbs), but I was thin before I stopped eating meat.
I put on 10lbs last year and lost half of it when I stopped lifting
weights.

My diet runs something like this:

Breakfast: 2 bagels, a banana, and an apple (this doesn't vary much)
Lunch:     vegetables fried rice at a Thai restaurant or
           bean burrito and 2 tostadas at Taco Bell or
           stir-fried vegetables with rice at a Chinese restaurant or
           Indian buffet - rice, vegetable curry, dal, etc.
Snack:     a bagel and an orange
Supper:    stir-fried vegetables and brown rice or
           baked potato and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich or
           whatevers-in-the-kitchen vegetable soup or
           chips & salsa and leftover brown rice (on a lazy day)

I usually pig out at some all-you-can-eat buffet at least once each
week.  I try to eat lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, and I buy
organic when possible.  Since dairy products cause acne, allergies, and
gas, I try to avoid dairy.  I also try to eat low fat foods.
-- 
Mike Sieweke                            ...!uunet!hayes!msieweke
Hayes Microcomputer Products            msieweke@hayes.com
Norcross, Georgia                       hayes!msieweke@uunet.uu.net
"I've never seen so many people obsessed with the trivial!"
   - a co-worker after his first time reading news

========================================================================

While this is generally excellent advice (IMHO), I would like to
suggest that a nutritionist or dietician would be a better source
of diet info that a doctor or nurse, since the latter two professions
require NO nutrition classes for professional qualification.  Most
doctors take NO nutrition classes as part of their professional
training, so their advise may not be the most valid and up to date
compared with a nutritionist.

-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?

========================================================================

When I first started the vegetarian thing I gained about 15 pounds --  
I went from around 175 to around 190.  I stayed there while I figured  
out what kinds of foods I could eat that weren't too fattening -- I  
ate a lot of pasta, cheese (I'm not vegan), pizza, eggs, etc.  When I  
settled down into a more reasonable diet -- lots of fruits, veges and  
grains -- I lost the weight, and am back around 180.  But I have more  
muscle and less fat than before, and I look and feel much better.

This took about 9 months, during which I was going to the gym about 3  
nights a week for swimming, the exercise bike, weight lifting, and  
also going on long bike rides (30-50 miles) on the weekends.  I feel  
1000% better than before, have more strength and endurance, can stay  
up later, work harder, etc.  I attribute some of this to the regular  
exercise and some to the low-fat, low-toxin, healthy diet.

I do know a lot of vegetarians that eat nothing but Dorito's and ice  
cream and, since they're not eating meat, think they have a healthy  
diet.  Being vegetarian means you have to watch your diet closer than  
other people.  I really notice it if I skip meals (especially  
breakfast), eat a lot of sugar or empty calories, and other stuff  
like that.

Randy

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From:	"John E. Hinding" <Hinding.1@nd.edu>

I hav noticed that since I have transfered to a vegetarian diet that I have
had more endurance when actually taking part in athletic things.  I have
also been working out, so this obviously is also a cause.  However, when
not doing something that interests me, I find myself often dozing off,
especially for about the first hour after eating a large meal or working
out.  One suggestion that somebody offered me that seems to work is to eat
small amounts throughout the day.  Perhaps six snacks a day instead of
meals.  You can take muffins, bread, fruit, and other stuff along; instead
of eating it all at once, just take one item out at a time and eat it.  I
find this doesn't cause drowsiness like eating a big meal does, mainly
because the body doesn't have to gear up all of its resources for the
processing of the food.  If you are thin, eat a lot of nuts, their a great
source of enegry/protein and the high fat content won't bother you either.

> Is there something wrong or just fine?

You should probably consult a physician, if this continues.

========================================================================

Hi,

I was feeling tired and weak for a time - turned out that I
was low in iron.  Now I take a multi-vitamin with minerals
daily and feel great.

Barbara

========================================================================

I am thin (5'10", 130) but I have always been thin, even when I ate meat.
I can outsprint about 90% of the cyclists in most areas;  I ride about
30 miles a week.....  Which is basically home to class and home to work--
so it is over city streets and I cannot sprint too hard.  V. frustrating!

My question for you is, do you and your friends  engage in vigorous, regular
excersise?  Also, have you been checked for really obvious things, like
iron deficiency.....

I am a lactovegetarian, so I do get some of my cals and fat from animal 
sources.  I don't see why a vegan should not be able to do better 
than I, if they put their mind to it....

The symptoms you are describing sound to me like classic symptoms of
folks not really in shape, irrespective of diet....

Cheers!

Peter

========================================================================

	Well, it might be worth it to get checked out by a doctor, or by
the campus clinic, if you can.  
	I was pretty easily tired for a long time -- I went to the doctor
after about a year of this, when I started having fainting spells.  :(  
I've got hypoglycemia, which was exacerbated by, among other things, my low-
fat keeps-me-very-lean not-quite-enough-protein vegi diet.  Apparently, low-
level hypoglycemia is *really* common among college-age people, especially 
women: it seems to be partly about age, partly about stress, partly about 
body-fat percentage...   Try marking down what you eat, and when you eat, 
and see if your hungry periods coincide with your inenergetic periods.  
If they do, you might try eating something (not sugar; it puts me right 
into a sugar coma if I haven't eaten a big fatty proteiny meal to buffer the 
effects.)...  might try eating something every 2 or 3 hours.  

All the best,
Cam 

========================================================================

>You probably are a vegi like me or a vega like my friend.

I'm not but I have a few suggestions.

>I found that my vega friend doesn't look pretty healthy among other
>classmates, and I also feel inenergetic, and easily-tired 
>more and more easily.

If you're talking about stuff like skin pallor, hollow eyes,
dark circles under the eyes, an extremely gaunt look, thinning
hair, etc., he should see a physician immediately.  Combinations
of those kinds of things can point to severe malnutrition.

>All other vegi I know in this school look "thin", or "weak"
>from some one else's point of view.

Vegies are quite often thin simply due to the lower fat content
of their diet.  Thin is ok, skinny is bad.

>Are you also thin? also easily tired?

With a proper veg diet, you should not suffer fatigue. 

>Is there something wrong or just fine?

See your doctor.  You may be anemic or malnurished.  A routine
set of blood chemistries and a complete blood count will catch 
a number potential problems such as anemia, low blood sugar and
other metabolic problems.  Chronic fatigue is not normal.  Posting
what you eat, how much and when may allow people on this forum
to notice something obvious.  Often the cause of chronic fatigue
is easy to spot and correct with a proper medical evaluation.
It may be as simple as bad sleeping habits, but you need to
rule out the more serious possibilities first.

Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
Disclaimer:  Monsanto didn't say this, I did.

========================================================================

I've been an ovo-lacto for over 5 years now. Never had any
problem. I get sick less often than others around me and 
recover faster when I do. My girlfriend (3 year vegitarian)
had a few problems when she started out. The problem may
be you aren't eating enough foods with iron (many women
don't get enough iron- vegitarian or not). Maybe try an
iron supplement and see if that helps.

-Brian

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