HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csmith@cis.ohio-state.edu (craig edward smith)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:19:42 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu

greg_bradt@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com (Greg Bradt aka The Lensman) writes:

>Is it possible that you are truly so ignorant of the nature of
>antidiscrimination law?  To do as you say, you must =prove= that your boss
>has fired you =because= you were gay.  If you are going to be scared of
>something, at least find something with a basis in reality.

With today's affirmative action laws, it is far easier for the accused to
prove he is the object of discrimination than it is for the employer to
prove that he is not. Since legal costs can go sky high it is often the
case that an employer will keep a bad employee (in terms of performance)
simply because he fears a lawsuit. There is some basis of reality in
the idea of keeping a job for life merely because of one's sexual
behavior. (Or lose it, for that matter, in the case of sexual harrassment).

"The only thing we dare not tolerate is intolerance"??????

Note the obvious contradiction of the statement.

Should we tolerate rapists? Should we tolerate murderers? Should we
tolerate thieves?

The question is not "should we tolerate", the question is "WHAT should
we tolerate, and what should we not tolerate."

Tolerance is not, in itself, a virtue.
-----
"The main flaw of Creation Theory is that it depends too much on conjecture
and miracles, and the main flaw of Evolution Theory is that it depends too
much on conjecture and miracles."
Craig Edward Smith (csmith@cis.ohio-state.edu)
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:42:13 GMT

In article <C17x35.61q@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.171237.20208@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>>
>>Boy I bet you fell for the "Read My Lips" promise too!
>>
>
>Well, if it weren't for democratic pressure, ther would have been no
>tax increase.

Golly, a whole lot of that "democratic pressure" was the debt piled up
by Reagan during the '80s, or have we forgotten that?  The Dems are as
complicit in this as the R's.




--
<Phone rings> "Hello?...  He did what?...  Bomb 'em....  I'm still
President."
			-- Dana Carvey's George Bush, 1/16 SNL
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: ZOE BAIRD: ATTORNEY GEN.
Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:44:33 GMT

In article 28236@m5.harvard.edu, borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden) writes:
>
 >Yes, she broke the law.  Not in a major way.  I happen not to agree with that
>particular law, so though she may have broken the law, I don't think what she did
>was wrong.  Should it rule her out as attorney general?  Maybe it should.  But I
>think her actions should be put in perspective - it was a minor crime, a
>victimless crime (except that she is now a victim of it), and a crime that is
>almost never prosecuted.
>
 
What do you suppose the penalty would be for a Border Patrol agent who hired
an "undocumented immigrant"? I imagine they'd be fired. Now, the Attorney General
is the head of the INS. Or is this one of those privileges of the rich that
the democrats were going to end?

It's all moot now, of course. Clinton has established how far he'll go to
stand behind the people he appoints: -->  <---- 

  --mike




Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:33:20 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d15
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:37:15 GMT

In article <1k71ruINN9t0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Richard A. Mulac,
ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
> His ability to improve education in this country is suspect,

I suppose you would like to back this up with some kind of facts...
OR is this just some feeling you get in your bones, like knowing when it's
going to rain. :-/  He has a record of success in improving education.
That is a fact and no unsubstantiated claim like this changes that
fact.

> and besides,
> his top priority is supposed to be the economy.  You can hardly
translate
> what he did in Arkansas (not much) to the rest of the country.

Again, I challenge you to PROVE that he didn't do much in Arkansas using
real facts instead of vacuous statements. I provided facts which support
the contrary. The gauntlet is thrown down.

> And even
> though I don't respect his record, I am all for him trying to improve
> education and the economy.  I just don't like how his top priority has
been
> shifted to a left-wing, liberal agenda.

He is performing tasks he said he would if elected. Is it so hard to
believe that these easier-to-implemented tasks would get done sooner
than the more complicated ones?

> Like one of Clinton's staffers
> said this week when asked what he thought the public's opinion of the
first
> few days of the Clinton administration was, he replied:
> 
>  'If you're an illegal alien lesbian whose trying to get an abortion,
the
>       first few days of the Clinton administration have been GREAT!'

MEANING: It's too soon to make reasonable assessments. I can't believe
I actually have to explain this to you.

Norman

Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:21212 alt.politics.elections:25153 talk.politics.misc:69721
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:00:32 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <1993Jan25.164213.11126@rock.concert.net> bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing) writes:
}In article <1993Jan25.150001.23694@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>Wrong.
}>
}>FIRST 100-DAYS ECONOMIC PLAN:
}>
}>Clinton in interview on ABC's "Good Morning America", June 23, 1992
}>	"...I'll have the bills ready the day after I'm inaugurated.  I'll send them
}
}	 This was before we found out that Bush had mis-lead
}the American people, which was normal for him, concerning the
}size of the national debt. 

Naturally, Clinton had no idea at all that any such thing could possibly be
going on.

That makes him even stupider than you have appeared to be...
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:20864 alt.politics.elections:25053 alt.president.clinton:1688
From: johnch@test22.sun.com (Slam the Crank from Wheezer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Chelsea, Schools, PLUS: slander? Limbaugh? Re: The New Education President
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:01:28
Organization: Impossible Missions Force
	<1993Jan08.180337.17400@watson.ibm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: test22
In-reply-to: enigma@vnet.ibm.com's message of Fri, 08 Jan 93 18:03:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan08.180337.17400@watson.ibm.com> enigma@vnet.ibm.com writes:

   In <1993Jan6.080542.12702@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> a74k110@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Peterson) writes:

   >things. Prediction (I'm serious): Sen. Braun will sue Limbaugh for slander.
   >
   >-Chris

   You're probably right.  Most liberals, and feminists in particular, have absolutely
   no ability to laugh at themselves.

Many groups of people have a hard time laughing at themselves.  People
who are being skinned alive certainly seem to have a problem with it,
in my experience, although, let's face it, there is a lot of humor in
their situation.

-- John C
From: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM (Bob Deguc)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:37:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: deguc@holein1.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: holein1.corp.sun.com

In article 1jkblvINNg2q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) writes:
> 
> Another lie - it's day one and THERE IS NO ECONOMIC RECOVERY PLAN UP
> ON THE HILL!  No more excuses!  Instead of wasting time paying off 
> foreign lobbyists like Brown and admitted felons like Baird, you 
> should be keeping the PROMISES YOU MADE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

1.  What "paying off" are you referring to?

2.  The crimes for which Baird has admitted to aren't felonies but
    rather misdemeanors from my understanding.  Could you quote the
    exact felony that she has committed?
  
> This administration is already a joke and it's just started!  I even 
> hear liberals on the local radio talk shows stating that they can't 
> believe they were suckered into voting for such a liar.  I really 
> feel sorry for all you people who defended Clinton in the past - you 
> must feel so foolish now.  I can't wait to see the first Presidential
> opinion polls.

I guess you don't remember when Bush was running for office in 1988
that his ads said he was "ready from day one" for the job.  This is
the "foreign policy" expert that had been the sitting VP for 8 years.
Guess what he did?  He put a 90 day hold on foreign policy decisions
just after assuming office (source: CNN's Crossfire earlier this week).

> 
>                            PREDICTION
> 
> In one year an attempt will be made to hold a recall election for
> the office of President of the United States.

Well since someone else has already volunteered to remind you of this
in a year, I don't have to waste my time.


Bob De Guc
I vote therefore I am!!   




Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: stank@perrault.unet.com (Stan Knight)
Subject: Re: History will judge
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Redwood City
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:24:45 GMT

In article <2542@blue.cis.pitt.edu> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:

[many K's of bitching deleted because we've heard it all before]

>public opinion polls that show opposition to policy, 

Just yesterday you critized me for posting a nation wide NEWSWEEK poll that
shows the public is supporting Clinton. Perphaps only for the time, but
supporting him TODAY none-the-less. I also asked that if you had ANY polls
showing different numbers to post them. Now you've made the claim that the
polls are showing opposition to Clinton. What polls, where are they, why
don't you produce them? Come on Paul if you expect anyone to actually 
listen to all your bitching at least back up SOME of your statements.

>Limbaugh says it best;  

Why am I not surprised?

>PSG 

>Looking at the condition and politics of the public
>school systems and Hollywood in the 90's, it seems in
>retrospect that the only mistakes Joseph McCarthy made
>were; not uncovering the right people and not finishing the job.

First you write that the American public no longer deserves the democratic
process and now this. You seem to be about as American as Lenin.


Stan Knight
|Stayed tuned--New nation wide polls tomorrow|

Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl)
Subject: Re: Astrology Nixes Shooting (Was Re: Clinton's Promises ...)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:48:07 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <1993Jan22.201428.14367@news.columbia.edu>, egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
|> Actually, the "20-year rule/curse" applies to the year a president is
|> elected.  JFK was elected in 1960, Reagan in 1980.  FDR won an
|> election in '40.  Who was 1900?  McKinley?  It's not just getting
|> shot, it's more like dying in office.  FDR brain hemmorage.  Harrison,
|> I recall, fits in this framework also.
|> 
|> The twenty-year curse still applies to Reagan, on account that we can,
|> if we really want to, work brain-death in here somehow.

Sorry folks, but the rule does apply.  Reagan was technically
dead for several seconds, while medical teams rushed to get 
his heart restarted.  He died, but was brought back to life.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Jared Dahl             | "My heart is human, my blood is boiling, | 
| Systems Programmer     |  my brain IBM"                           |
| IBM - Rochester, MN    |              -- STYX,  "Mr. Roboto"      |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.
Don't send e-mail - I won't get it.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc
From: kevin@drogges.tti.com (Kevin Carothers)
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Organization: Citicorp TTI
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:14:10 GMT

In article <athos-210193174745@athos.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
%In article <1993Jan21.192342.29373@pwcs.stpaul.gov>, chrisl@stpaul.gov
%(Chris A Lyman) wrote:
%
%> Finally, remember how long it took for the Bush Administration to
%> acknowledge that there is a recession.
%
%Definition of recession: 2 quarters of downturn.  In Bush's presidency,
%there were *only* 2 quarters of downturn.  The rest were <gasp> growth. 
%Sorry.

                                  1988            1992

Gross Federal Debt		2,600.8 B      4,002.7 B
GNP                                 3.3 %          2.6 %
Unemployment                        5.2 %          7.3 %


Now, even though I'm a self-professed loud-mouthed Clinton supporter,
I of course know that this isn't ALL The Bushman's fault.

HOWEVER, Bush, as the chief 'purveyor' of monetary and fiscal policy 
administration (or at least suggestions), obviously mucked it up 
over the long-term.

Many independent councils  have professed the need for AT LEAST 4.0 - 5.0%
GNP growth in order to support a 5% or less unemployment (< 5% unemployment
breeds inflation, a 'la Carter's "full employment" policy).

The question isn't whether Bush was a "bad" or "good" president, because
in some facets he was one of the best of the best (Desert Storm, Somalia,
international monetary policy decisions, etc). 

The historic 'rating' of Bush becomes muddled because (like all Presidents)
he was incredibly bad (or at least unmindful) of several other issues
(infrastructure, education, social values)...

--

Kevin Carothers   {psivax,philabs,retix,quad1}!ttidca!kevin

Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:44:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.182834.22001@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.155503.21171@news.columbia.edu>
>egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
>>
>>Discuss amongst yourselfs.  Here's a topic: Rush Limbaugh --
>>Nostradamus reincarnate?  Ready?  Begin....
>
>Hey, how about this topic: Rush Limbaugh--Mort Downey Jr. reincarnate?

He put on a lot of weight.  That's what that sedentary,
sit-behind-a-desk-and-yell-into-a-microphone lifestyle will do to you!




--
<Phone rings> "Hello?...  He did what?...  Bomb 'em....  I'm still
President."
			-- Dana Carvey's George Bush, 1/16 SNL
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc
From: ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser)
Subject: Changing Politicians with the Circumstances
Organization: TECHNET, Singapore
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 03:55:08 GMT



If politicians should feel free to dispose of campaign promises merely by
invoking a "change of circumstances" how come we can't change our vote when
the politician changes? Like: "I'm sorry, Bill, but circumstances have changed
and I have to revoke my vote for you. Hope you didn't give up that cushy
governors job, already."

No. We have to wait four years but Slick Willie needn't even wait till
he was sworn in.

Its not fair.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: President Flip-Flop
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:26:16 CST


In article <1jpuc7INNoch@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) writes:
> 
> BWAAAAAAAAH!  At 4 PM Thursday Clinton is '100% behind his nominee'.  By
> midnight he has her head chopped off!  What loyalty to his friends!

Yea, a loyal friend would have given her a pardon.  :-)

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: God is intolerant of sin!
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:43:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.132613.7015@news.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE> k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai) writes:

>Wonderful, perhaps then they could seek some appropriate counseling
>for their anger instead of this "Usenet as Therapy" game which
>*some* people seem to be playing.

Well, *some* people don't need to speak in haughty affectations,
unlike *some* other people.  Rawther.

Anyway, focusing my efforts solely at counselors seems
counterproductive to me.  Thanks ever so much anyway.

>Undirected anger hurts everyone,

Undirected who?

>including those who are sympathetic to their cause.

Those who feel slighted by my posts were not particularly sympathetic
to begin with.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:21548 talk.politics.misc:70513
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN???
Date: 28 Jan 93 10:51:08 EST
Organization: ACME Products

In article <1993Jan27.194757.20464@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
...
> FACT: Arkansas went from 50th to 47th in manufacturing.

	All the way up to 47th?  Wow.

...
> FACT: The governors (Repub and Demo) voted Clinton to be the MOST
> EFFECTIVE GOVERNOR in the country.

	They did the same for Dukakis.

Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
	"There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an
intellectual conviction."  Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc,sci.econ
From: nfs@volkl (Norbert Schlenker)
Subject: Re: Money Supply (Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE)
Followup-To: sci.econ
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Princeton University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:10:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.103542.7525@hemlock.cray.com> rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
>
>In June 1992, M1 had grown 11% over the previous 12 months (Source: 
>Federal Reserve Board).  The 3 month average was 6% (indicating a 
>slowdown in the rate).

In December 1992, M1 had grown 15% over the previous 12 months (same
source).  The actual increase was $125 billion and it was ALL currency.
Federal Reserve Notes.  All of it.  Currency outstanding increased by
50% in one year.

Now I'm puzzled, because I simply do not understand what people are
doing with all this currency.  Did we ship it all to Colombia?  Does
half the country have a couple of thousand dollars stuffed (literally)
under the mattress?  Are people that scared?  (I am, but I certainly
don't get that impression from others while walking around.)

Any economists care to guess?  I've set followups to sci.econ in hopes
of some reasonable speculation.

Norbert
nfs@cs.princeton.edu
From: fred@johnd.tamu.edu (Fred Seals 5-2298)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: inaugural festivities
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:55:16 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
Reply-To: fred@johnd.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: johnd.tamu.edu

In article 727553857@aer.com, mjb@aer.com. (Maxcene J. Bascomb) writes:
>Did anyone tape Tuesday night's inaugural events?  I would like to
>get a copy.




Wow.  Do the Social-Democrats know how many poor and homeless their 30 million
dollar party would have feed?  I believe these folks are insensitive.


fred

______________________________________________________________________

		Equal Rights for the Womb-bound.

    _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/  | 
   _/       _/         | The above opinions are my own. To my knowledge they
  _/_/_/   _/_/_/_/    | are not shared by my employer or my friends.
 _/             _/     | However, they should be.
_/       _/_/_/_/      | Fred Seals 409-845-2298



Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc
From: neil.black@uttsbbs.uucp (Neil Black) 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: RE: ZOE BAIRD: ATTORNEY
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:37:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591
Reply-To: neil.black@uttsbbs.uucp (Neil Black) 

-> From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
-> Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
-> Subject: Re: ZOE BAIRD: ATTORNEY
-> Message-ID: <2450@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
-> Date: 24 Jan 93 20:16:16 GMT

-> P.S. BTW, so what do all the friends of Bill think of the White House
->   deciding to take the historically unprecedented step of locking
->    the press out of the White House?  Followed of course by the
->    statement (in response to angry questions from the press about the
->    action) from Stephonoageek that; the White House will see to it
->    that the press gets all the information they'll need to do their
->    jobs.

HA!  You crack me up, Paul.  Why don't you just come out and admit that
NO MATTER what Clinton does during his 8 years in office (and the
following 8 with Gore at the healm), you will be against it?  Funny
stuff there...

Anyway, you should be HAPPY that Clinton has done this.  After all, it
seems that it would help prevent the so-called "liberal" media from
being exactly that.  You see, if they were in the White House, they
could be "bought out" via perks like nice luncheons every day, limos,
etc.  Then they could be puppets of the Clinton administration.

I see no problem with this action.  News is news and it will always be
reported in the fine manner that it always has (with the exception of
the tabloids--but who reads them for the news?  Oh yeah, people like
Paul)--see below

-> That depends on which theory you're trying to pin on us.  I know
-> where the opposition is and I know why it's there.  The Baird issue
-> is just another example of how the left, with the aid of the media,
-> frames these matters in just the right way to allow the public to
-> think they know the story, when in reality the truth is something
-> they'll never see (ex: Gennifer Flowers).
                                                                                                                 
----
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Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:21129 alt.politics.elections:25122 talk.politics.misc:69589