HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ucda@toontown.uucp (Chris Andersen (The Dangerous Guy))
Subject: Re: You asked about "Swinging..."
Organization: The Department For Doing Departmental Things
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:11:19 GMT

h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>elf@polari.com writes:
>>
>>[posting about his experiences with a swing party deleted]
>
>This just confirmed all of my stereotypes: pre-feminist, pre-gay-lib,
>pre-AIDS sexual "revolutionaries".  
>
>Thanks for writing, this, Elf!!

Unfortunately Elf's experience does not compare in any way with my own.  I've never been
to a "swingers party" like he described, though I have been to a few gatherings of people
who were into open relationships and alternate sexuality.  Those gatherings tended to
be smaller then the one's Elf described (usually 10-15 people) and most of them had at
least some previous contact with the others, even if only over the networks.

What Elf described sounds to me a lot like a swingers club I once visited in Everett
Washington.  It was set in a resort type building (pool, jacuzzi's, etc.) out in the
woods.  I wasn't there during an actual gathering (I was there for an SF convention) but
I did get a chance to tour the facilities that had in the "upstairs rooms".  It was pretty
wild just how much they can cram into such a small space.

Anyway, after touring this place I could imagine that the parties thrown there probably
were in the 50+ people range.  And I think that is the main problem with it.  That many
people couldn't hope to have anything more in common then the fact that they are they looking
for other people to have sex with.  So the gathering is reduced to the lowest common
denominator.

However, the gatherings I've gone to usually tended to emphasize more then just having
sex.  It was more like a group of like minded individuals getting together to have a good
time, sexually or otherwise.  In fact, only one of these gatherings have every evolved to
the point where a real orgy took place.

I also found the quotation on swinging from the Human Sexuality book to be somewhat
insulting and sexist.  It basically said that swinging was something that the men brought
up in the relationship and that the women reluctantly fell into.  It also said that 
swinging was something that the couples took up in order to spice up their life.

Well, I'm into open relationships (personally I dislike the term swinging) because I like
to explore more then just the standard monogamous modes of sexual interaction.  I'm not
in it to spice up my sex life (my wife and I have a pretty spicy sex life already thank you).
For me, an open relationship is not something I'm doing to keep my marriage going.  It's
just something that I like doing.

One suggestion I would make to anyone who is interested in an open relationship: don't do
it unless your current relationship is already a solid one.  In other words, the idea 
that "swinging" can somehow save a marriage that has fallen into a slump is not only
wrong it will quite likely only make things worse.


Just a counter-point.
-- 
Chris Andersen (..!uunet!sequent!toontown!chris)

"...the only thing worse than being hurt is being bored." -- Daniel Mocsny
From: alan@osf.org ("Alan Hamilton")
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Biphobia in TORCH SONG?
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:26:37 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1992Apr2.000729.23133@pellns.alleg.edu>  
  rushm@coch11.alleg.edu (Matthew Rush) writes:
>I wrote a paper last semester examining biphobia in Fierstein's  
>"Tourch Song Trilogy."  There's not a whole lot there, but I got ten  
>pages out of it !!!!

In article <1992Apr2.105909.10611@husc3.harvard.edu>  
  pierce@husc4.harvard.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> There is indeed not a whole lot there; I've seen it twice and as far
> as I'm concerned, there is none.  I'm curious to know how you got ten
> pages out of it.

Tim later writes:
>The film, incidentally, seems pretty bi-positive to me.  The first
>time I watched it, I was pretty disturbed by Ed's character, Arnold's
>bisexual lover -- he dates Arnold but shoves him under the carpet as
>soon as a woman comes along, has a casual affair with one of Arnold's
>other lovers, etc.  My dislike lasted up until the last third or so of
>the film, when Ed started being portrayed more sympathetically, and I
>had quite completely reversed my opinion by the end of the film.

I *really* like the movie (haven't seen or read the play).

However, I always get angry when Arnold throws Ed out with a
disparaging remark about bisexuals.

-Alan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Subject: Re: Bi Quotes and Red Heads
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.090006.28568@polari.com> elf@polari.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.072050.5383@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
>     cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Tanaqui) writes:
>
>> rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandy Hereld) writes:
>>>  pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>>>i know have *one* more reason to  visit seattle (and wash u).
>>
>>> Would you two *fine* ladies be interested in collaborating excessively
>>> with me...???
>>
>>Well, peg? Nothing exceeds like excess, so they say. So, the Seattle
>>orgy is Sandy, peg, Ellen & me so far..?
>
>AND... In article <1992Apr11.015718.2918@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
>     n8442349@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Joy) writes:
>
>>   Can we make Bellingham an honorary suburb of Seattle
>>for the con?  [bats eyelashes in semi-obligatry flirt]
>
>   Wait wait wait!  What about me?  Am I *not* invited for some reason!
>I promise to bring cute, beautiful, tall, blond DeWolf and sexy,
>lovely, green-eyed Omaha!  I do I do!
>
>   Elf !!!
>--
Elf, didn't we *tell* you, the orgy is at your place!!! 

Sexy Omaha and I have have been having long chats, planning the menu and
talking about cheap places to buy scarlet and black satin sheets, beautiful
DeWolf and Graham have been discussing reiforcing the joints so we can hang the
sling safely (some of us are on the hefty side you know...).

In fact, we were all wondering when you'd start to do your share of the work. 
#8^)

Sandy		Bisexual by Choice?
From: twpierce@amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Outing at the Oscars? (Was: Why are you all s
Date: 1 Apr 92 20:41:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: amherst.1992Apr1.164101.1
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA.

In article <iw.702083995@tosser>, iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White) writes:
> cjmchale@cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
> 
>>I can't remember where I heard it, or who it was about, or was it in a
>>fictional book/film instead of real life... Anyway, I think that some
>>actors have gone through hardship after playing a homosexual role in a
>>movie. Can anybody else confirm this?
> 
> Yes it is definitely true.  Matthew Broderick is apparantly just 
> "recovering" from TorchSong Trilogy (which IMHO is not mainstream
> Hollywood anyway).  Can you remember the names of the actors in Desert
> hearts.  That is because they found if difficult to get work afterward.

I don't remember the name of the man who played Michael on L.A.
LAW, but only because I haven't watched the show in years.  He
started his career playing a gay man in a movie called MAKING
LOVE.  He seemed to be doing just fine after that.  Cher played a
lesbian in SILKWOOD; has her career been destroyed?

>>But I think that talk of potential damage to their career is moot. There
>>are much more humane reasons why a (non-publically-homophobic)
>>celebrity should not be outed. 
> 
> Do you think that a publically homophobic celebrity should be outed?
> Or a celebrity who is part of a publically homophobic organization, like
> whats his face from the army who was outed last year?  (Sorry  my 
> memory is shot to hell, somebody else can supply the name)

Pete Williams.  I would out such a person myself.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Simon LeVay says he can't find any lesbian
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  brains ... I've been to that bar."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / -- Max Meredith Vasilatos (max@athena.mit.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re:  Dominos (was: De-muffining, me too!)
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <rhialto.002c@falu.sneakernet> rhialto@falu.sneakernet (Olaf Seibert) writes:
>In article <1992Mar27.173650.9348@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?)) writes:
>>peg,
>>-packing her suitcase with bathing suit and shorts, so as to be
>>ready to leave at a moment's notice *whenever* duty calls...
>
>Who needs a bathing suit?

well, i for one don't want to get arrested for swimming nude in
the bahamas.  are there nude beaches there?  ;)
peg
From: kdc5072@cs.rit.edu (Kevin D Colagio)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: North East get together. (all invited!) (note ** NOT a convention **)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:26:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY


  In article <1992Apr13.170502.899@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> max@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Max Handelsman: liberal hippie subversive dude.) writes:
  
  Hey, how many of us are there in the Northeast?  

Oh, let's see...Right here at RIT there are let's see...Me, Nick, a friend of
mine, someone else who dropped me a line, that one....I wish that one, but
wishes don't count I guess.

Definately at least 4 here.  So that means that as of right now, we have the
North Eat get together at RIT.  

Proposed activities:  fondue (chocolate and cheese)
                      back rubs
                      front rubs
                      side rubs
                      ice cream sampling
                      flirts in person
                      what ever else you can come up with.

ok, let's see...RIT is about 8 hours from DC, 6 hours from the Lehigh Valley, (Hi
Kate!, if you come...I have some friends you can bring along (about 3...send
e-mail if interested!)), 4 hours from Niagra falls (at most 4), 5 hours from
Harrisburg, PA, and 3 or 4 hours from New York, NY.

Seems like we are kinda central...hmmm.....

Let me know if we really want to do this!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-  Kevin Colagio...student at large -  I am looking   - In Gods we trust,      =
=               aka                 =  for something  - All others pay cash.   -
-         KDC5072@cs.rit.edu        -   to put here.  -      -Vladimir Taltos  =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 11:20:49 EDT
From: ebt-inc!pks@uunet.UU.NET (Pearl Stark)
Subject: Re:  Bi Quotes
-> |olaf's keeping the list, with names and (hopefully) e-mail 
    -> |addresses!  (if have red hair and wantto be hunted, let him 
    -> |know (-:)  ...
    -> 
    -> 
    ->    But don't do it by email, 'cause then the other lists that some
    -> of us are carefully keeping will get out of date, and we can't have
    -> that ;-)
    -> 
    ->   david parsons \/ orc@pell.chi.il.us
    -> 

I had red hair once... but I don't suppose that counts. (sigh)
oh well, then I guess I'll just have to join in on the 
hunting side.  Where do we start?
pearl

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ro@panix.com (r l reid)
Subject: Re: e-flirts
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:02:07 GMT
Organization: Playdoh's Republic

In article <1992Apr15.152007.11950@ecst.csuchico.edu> pwiebe@ecst.csuchico.edu (stephanie mandell) writes:
>In article <20206@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (S Hopkins) writes:
>
>>Shy, huh?  Hmmm ... and I'm tee-total ... and celibate ...
>>
>So, Sara, looks to me like you're knocking celibacy.  
>
>I wouldn't call it a desired state of mind but sometimes it's the
>right one.

Hmm, I didn't read it that way at all.  And I'm "tee-total", and
didn't take offense, and have at times been celibate by choice,
and didn't take offense.

What I read into it was that Sara is - no way to put this delicatly,
is there? - enthusiastic about drink and sex.  Not that it was
some one true way of being.

Now, if I should have been offended, I hope Sara will correct me.

Tho *I* usually prefer to top...


-- 
		r l reid	ro@@panix.com
@WOOF, QUACK AND  MEOW: Composers of Woof present a variety of computer music 
[Apr 26, 8:30 pm, Cunningham Dance Studio 55 Bethune (Westbeth), NYC)]
[Apr 30, 8:30 pm, SIA, (410 W 118 St, top floor, NYC)]
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: liz@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Liz Highleyman)
Subject: Bisexuality research (was Re: coming out to teachers)
Organization: Free
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:09:38 GMT


Tim aska about Ron Fox's survey on bisexuality...

Yes, Ron did finish up his study of 900+ self-identified bisexuals.
He presented his results at the 1st international bi conference
in Amsterdam last October.  

Some interesting tidbits:

35% of the bis in his study had previously identified as gay/lesbian
only 10% had previously identified as straight
Among young people, it is becoming more common to identify originally 
 as bi
About 50% of respondents were not involved in any les/gay or bi groups


Ron reportedly will (or has) published his results in the Journal
of Homosexuality, though I don't know what issue.

He used to have an e-mail address, but I tried to reach him
recently (to get the same info), and have had no reply.

-Liz
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Liz A. Highleyman                     MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
liz@ai.mit.edu                        Cambridge, MA  02139
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi Quotes and Red Heads
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:50:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr7.185010.9792
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr7.001114.2757@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>> rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld) describes her hair color
>(tortoise-shell) for peg's benefit:  
>>> Funny you should ask that.  I just let the roots grow out and
>>> cut off all the orange.  First time in years I'd seen it.  (More
>>> grey than any 10 of you kids out there..#8^).) Fairly dark brown with
>>> thankfully, silver (not that awful yellow gray) threads.  Definately
>>> better in *bright* orange.  (Can we do color gif's?) 
>
>tanaqui's hunting instinct takes over, and: 
>>I say we put her on the hunt list right now, Peg. I have a thing for silvering
>>hair, too |-). Tortoiseshell & silver. Mmmm.
>
>absolutely, absolutely.  that description made *my* heart skip a 
>beat, too...  mmmmmm... *can we do color gifs?  i know have *one*
>more reason to  visit seattle (and wash u).  
>;)
>
>peg
>
I didn't announce my demuffining,(because I felt embarrassed that it
had taken me so long to learn how to post.  I wanted to post the first
day I found this group!) but now here you are flirting with me anyway.
Yeah!!!!!!!!    (now, how to return the favor....)

In a class yesterday we were warned about the dangers of "excessive
collaboration", and I just love dangerous things...
Would you two *fine* ladies be interested in collaborating excessively
with me...???

Sandy				Proud, and Queer of it
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ro@panix.com (r l reid)
Subject: Re: e-flirts
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:30:56 GMT
Organization: Playdoh's Republic

In article <31257@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>Flirtatiously nibbling the *big toes* of the entire newsgroup...
>
>Dave.

Darling, if you're going to start in on *my* toes, you'd better not just
be flirting....

-- 
		r l reid	ro@@panix.com
@WOOF, QUACK AND  MEOW: Composers of Woof present a variety of computer music 
[Apr 26, 8:30 pm, Cunningham Dance Studio 55 Bethune (Westbeth), NYC)]
[Apr 30, 8:30 pm, SIA, (410 W 118 St, top floor, NYC)]
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: red hair again?
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:31:33 GMT
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <9204161712.AA07801@ebt-inc> ebt-inc!pks@uunet.UU.NET (Pearl Stark) writes:
>
>_anything_ peg says, goes.
>right?

wow!  such power!  i'll try to control my megalomaniacal tendencies...
heh heh heh
and if you believe that, i have this bridge for sale...
;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  

peg
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: pclary@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Subject: Re: Muffin(ing)/de-Muffin(ing)?
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 01:18:52 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

smack@sol.UVic.CA (Susan Mackey) wrote...
>Ok, I confess, I'm new, what is this muffin stuff I've been reading in here?
Kinky initations involving fondue and bbq-ripple ice cream and
other things that we haven't figured out yet.  Welcome and Hugs and more!

>Smack
>It's so nice to be able to chose your own login!
And what a suggestive login it is!

An open to suggestion... Ellen

--
 Patricia "Ellen" Clary              |    "There's a lot to be said for
 pclary@polyslo.csc.CalPoly.EDU      |    an experience that's primitive."
 pclary@nike.CalPoly.EDU             |                        Riker (ST:TNG)
From: pclary@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Liberals (was Re: Coming out to teachers...)
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:02:42 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

nmw1638@cs.rit.edu (Nicolas M Williams) wrote...
>
>Ok, I just felt like making a comment about the L-word:
>
>From what I gather, in the U.S. the word "liberal" can be used in many ways
>to express several types of mindsets.
>For example it can be used to describe these and other political positions: 
>
>1) The belief that civil rights should be expanded (this in general is
>a position held by many democrats and few republicans);
>
>2) the belief in welfare high government participation in the economy
>and other such "leftist" economic beliefs,
>
>3) socialism (this is the type policies/beliefs  alluded to when the
>L-word  is used as an insult),

When right-wing conservatives use 'L-word' as an insult, they mean
all four of your points not just this one.
To think of the word liberal as being an insult in the US shows the
incredible power of the soundbite media.  The (at least recent) idea 
that someone could be 'too liberal' emerged during the Reagan era, 
but wasn't (recently) used as a political weapon and general insult
(read: soundbite) until Bush's use of 'L-word'  I am amazed at how
the conotation of the word has switched around in such a short time.

>4) the lack of support for the policies of certain republican politicians
>(read Jesse Helms, Buchanan, Newt Gingrich, John Sununu, etc....)
>especially when it comes to civil rights and economics,
>
When I use it it definitely is a compliment! (but seeing the varying
interpretations, I'll be a little careful.) Unless it is in the context 
of people who call themselves liberal, but are still <fill-in-the-blank>
phobic. 

{Ob-Bi-Ref} Bi and very liberal (occasionally approaching anarchism.)

Ellen

--
 Patricia "Ellen" Clary              | "Caution: Ice pick weilding bisexual
 pclary@polyslo.csc.CalPoly.EDU      |  fag dyke.  Do not agitate."
 pclary@nike.CalPoly.EDU             |         A 'Catherine Did It' T-Shirt
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: is de-muffining painful?
From: matthew@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:44:56 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

In article <s3e2qINN8ta@agate.berkeley.edu>, cascio@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:
> Wow. Just started reading this tonight and I'm already posting!

	Yea!  Welcome--jump right in!

> I get a great feeling while reading this group (any and all puns
> intended). For the last five years, I have been in love with a
> beautiful green-eyed bi woman. Last saturday night (4/4), I 
> married her. 

	Awwwwww.  I'm glad you're getting good feelings--is she
helping?  And congrats on your marriage!  

> What's great about this relationship 
> is that we agree completely on how "open" it should
> be, and we are both voracious voyeurs. When I see how her eyes
> light up when she gets turned on... ahem.

	Should it be any other way?  I know I like to watch
(participation isn't so bad either! :)

> I guess I'm posting this in order to jump on the "bi's make
> terrific partners" bandwagon. And to get a little eflirting, too...

	Well, I already knew that about "terrific partners," and as
for flirting...well....
<hugs>
	That'll be just the beginning, o.k?  But don't worry--I think
you two won't want for anything here in this grope--I mean group.
(My, my, where is my mind tonight?  The same place it's always been....)

> ps-- the night of my bachelor party, the entertainment, a woman who
> usually works for the Mitchell Bros' theater in San Francisco, met
> janice and now wants to get together with the two of us. We're 
> going to lunch on sunday. wish us luck.

	Good luck.  But seeing as you probably won't get this until
after the fact--how was it?  Come on, 'fess up....
				--Matt
-- 
Matt Chatterly               |   "How'd you get hand lotion all the
(a blatant pseudonym.....)   |    way up there?"
Matthew@oread.cc.ukans.edu   |   "I told you I spilled it...."
					--_Young Lady Chatterly_
From: nmw1638@cs.rit.edu (Nicolas M Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: ok....North East Get Together!
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:55:07 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY

In article <1992Apr16.010005.4359@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:
>
>In a previous article, kdc5072@cs.rit.edu (Kevin D Colagio) says:
>>The date is:   MAY 1 - 3   
>>Not June 1 - 3....I'm sorry....

Oh, I thought you were gonna stay over the summer (bleah)

>
>Aaargh.  In that case, I definitely will *not* be coming; in case anyone
>read my earlier offer to give people rides before I cancelled it, I'm
>going to have to withdraw it.  Sorry.

Hey, we can start planning for next academic year, like say during one of
the breaks. Huh, whatdayathink?

>-- PTD --
>(maybe next time....)
>-- 
>Palmer T. Davis 

Nick
--
                                                           ______         
E-mail: nmw1638@cs.rit.edu Phone: (716) 475-3716           \ \/ /       
Mail: CPU 645, 25 Andrews Memorial Dr, Rochester, NY 14623  \/\/
Disclaimer: My opinions are mine!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: Re: bisexuality a fad? (was Re: Bisexuality and Furries...)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 03:22:34 GMT


	I had a bi bf who used to mostly look at boys w/me.  It used to
bug me; it made it hard for me to feel like *I* was attractive to him.  He
says he does it 'casue he feels like looking at girls while w/me sets up
what feels to him like competition.

	I never know if I quite bought that argument, but that's what
happened.

	I usually check out guys when I'm with gay or bi men, & more girls
when I'm with bi or lesbian women.  I'm more comfy in general leering at
men tho; I'm relatively uncomfy leering at women.  I feel as if most women
get enough casual/unwanted attention on the street anyway, they don't need
me, too.

	Or maybe I'm just closetted...

	Annemarie
	asuccop@u.washington.edu