From: eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Rob
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:07:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.152423.21573@csus.edu>
chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.093844.20481@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>
>cswicego@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Cynthia Swicegood) writes:

>>Abortions are wrong!  There's no difference between a fetus, a baby, and
>>an adult, these are just different steps in human development.  People
>>say that a fetus isn't anything because it can't survive outside the
>>womb, well a baby already born can't survive outside the womb either
>>unless someone takes care of him/her and feeds him/her.  You're talking
>>about human life, no matter what stage it's at and it's wrong to kill.
>>Plain and simple.

>Addition: Legal abortion is discrimination. 

Eating beef and forbidding canabalism is discrimination.  There's
nothing wrong with "discrimination" per se, the relevant question is
whether or not the grounds justify the discrimination.

>Welcome, Cynthia. 
>Be seriously aware that pro-aborts will try and slam you off of this
>newsgroup with super flaming tactics. 

Actually, "Cynthia" got taken off talk.abortion not because we were
flaming "her" but because "she" was really Rob, posting from Cynthia's
account when she'd only given him permission to read from it.

I don't *think* any of the pro-abortioners bothered to flame "her".
Not surprising, we only have three, and only Gordon posts regularly.

>My assertion couldn't possibly be too far off; these people flamed
>one of their own pro-choice friends, named Siren, off of the
>newsgroup, and she was their most logical and peace-minded ally.
>(Maybe it was because of that, that she got flamed. For her peaceful
>attitude, that is.) 

Personally, I've only tried to flame three people out of
talk.abortion: DJR, Cinder (aka Conrad Vincent) and T Costello, and I
didn't go after any of the three for being pro-choice (though all of
them were).  I went after DJR for personal reasons; he flamed me for
asking him for clarifications, accusing me of trying to force him into
one of two absurd positions and deleting text where I asked if he had
a third position in the process.  I went after Cinder for blatant
anti- Semitism; he'd shown several signs of it and then posted an
article saying that abortion is worse than the holocaust
(uncapitalized) in which he referred to abortion as killing fetuses
and the Holocaust as removing Jews and added that the unborn were
innocent as if the Jews were somehow guilty....  T Costello said that
a woman who says she was raped should be assumed guilty of lying until
proven innocent, talked at length about the 14-year-old in Ireland who
was raped and almost denied an abortion without showing any sympathy
for what she was going through, and in general behaved like a pig who
likes to see women suffer.

I flame people *far* more often for stupidity than I do for their
position itself, and most of talk.abortion waits for a moment of
stupidity to attack for whatever reason; having an opening always
helps.

In any case, I at least didn't flame "Cynthia" because I wanted to rid
talk.abortion of a pro-lifer but because he was too stupid to tell the
difference between "no difference" and "no moral difference" and "to
kill" and "to kill humans".

(Why do you want anybody that stupid for an ally, anyway?)

-- 
Pro-Choice                 Anti-Roe                     - E. Elizabeth Bartley
            Abortions should be safe, legal, early, and rare.

Cthulhu for President -- when you're tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion