HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 13:48:09 GMT

Laura G. Malloy (lmalloy@abacus.bates.edu) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan5.132340.14614@wraxall.inmos.co.uk> des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:
: >2) they had several months during beta testing of publicity that DR-DOS
: >would not run Win 3.1 which probably still is a factor when people
: >consider the compatibility of DR-DOS. I think MS were trying to
: >generate a sense of fear in going the DR-DOS route so that people would
: >decide to play safe and stick with MS-DOS.

: Well, this might be true, but I think you overestimate how much
: attention is paid to beta testing by the vast majority of computer users
: out there.  The people actually beta testing it made their complaints
: known on Compuserve (I was part of the beta and I recall those problems
: being mentioned) so I suppose one could accuse MS of not having fixed
: the problem (whatever it was) for DR (assuming they could have by
: modifying Windows' code).

The situtaion is that a significant percentage of people involved
in buying PCs think they are "experts" because they read the right
computer mags etc. They see an article there which says that there
are problems with the Win3.1 beta and DR-DOS so when they (or perhaps
their purchasing dept) goes to buy a PC and are offered DR-DOS they
immediately remember that DR-DOS had a problem and decide against it.
Such people are usually such "experts" that they cannot be convinced
otherwise.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk                     tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                New Year Resolution for 1993: Start using capital letters.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Elias_Wakan@mindlink.bc.ca (Elias Wakan)
Subject: From DOS to OS2 version?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:33:34 GMT

Anyone know if there are any major stumbling blocks to installing DOS 5.0 on
a new system with only one partition today, and using FDISK to make a second
HPFS partition for OS/2 once I discover for myself how slow Windows is?

--
Elias_Wakan@mindlink.bc.ca
From: gkushmer@jade.tufts.edu (Greg Kushmerek)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Taligent FYI
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:07:05 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

This is only slightly OS/2 related:

Today's (1/12/93) issue of the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) has an
article on page B-12 describing how the people at Taligent are
very pleased with the progress they have made so far.  They are
expecting to first release their product next year - up from
an original expected  release of sometime 1995.

Thought you might want to know.....

--gk

--

"The early worm becomes an appetizer"
			
				-EN-
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:12057 comp.os.os2.apps:10032 comp.os.os2.misc:41905 comp.os.os2.networking:2662
From: ucbked@athena (Earl H. Kinmonth)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking
Subject: ibm tcp/ip a ripoff?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 08:25:19 GMT
Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

i am beginning to think ibm tcp/ip is a rip off.  my comparative
reference is the wattcp freeware tcp/ip for msdos and tcp/ip for
xenix.

a) expensive (150 pounds after educational discount);

b) hard to get (took nearly a month after order was placed);

c) few ethernet cards supported (compared to wattcp with clarkson
packet drivers);

d) common tcp/ip programmes not or badly implemented (rsh does
not accept piped input or properly return stdout from the
executed command; ftp does not implement piped input/output for
get and put commands; etc).

e) default telnet keyboard mapping is user hostile;

f) screen redraws with remote logins through telnet are very
spastic;

g) dos programmes executed from an os2 window through a telnet
login lockup the os2 machine;

h) overweight (too many disks, too much memory);

i) hard to setup (xenix tcp/ip took me about three hours from
openning the box to a reliable anonymous ftp service; wattcp took
about an hour from loading to basic operation; with os2, i'm
still at it weeks later).
-- 
earl h. kinmonth, centre for japanese studies, university of sheffield,
sheffield, england s10 2tn  jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Date: 05 Jan 93 21:34:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan4.211423.1419@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>: 
>:      Yes.  Not all interfaces are documented.  If some application
>: is using one of those, it's clearly not covered by the functional
>: specification.  In this case, who's to say which product is more
>: compatible?  I suggest that it should be the original - the cloners
>: have the responsibility of correcting their own product to match,
>: or ignore the application in question.
>
>In other words, the only applications we can trust to run on MS-DOS
>are those written by Microsoft? Is this what you are saying Phil?
>

    Interesting interpretation.  What I'm really saying is that
the only applications that you can be 100% sure will run on
MS-DOS are those that use only the documented APIs.  Apparently
some Microsoft applications don't fit into this category either.

				-Phil

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 12:33:03 EST
From: <VALHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 bigot and NT

I think it's safe to rule out the possibilty that MicroSoft and Intel may

have collaborated to "fix" NT so as to prevent it from running AMD's 386

clone.  I don't see how doing this can be any advantage for MicroSoft,

although it certainly would be in Intel's favor.  Microsoft would do well

to maximize the hardware base on which NT can run and excluding machines

built around AMD's chips would run counter to that.
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Just how old is CompSci anyway? (How many Nobel Prizes has IBM won?)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:06:48 GMT

spexet@math.lsa.umich.edu (D. Robert Spexet II) writes:
: In article <1993Jan6.214450.2096@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
: >The system which improved the processing of the US census was Hermann
: >Hollerith's punched card, but it wasn't really a computer.
: 
: It might be noted, however, that the company that Hollerith founded to make
: the punched-card machines later became IBM Corporation.

Accepted, but my point was that the previous poster had confused
Babbage with Hollerith. There *is* a significant difference.

And Hollerith di not, of course, invent the concept of the punched
card. That was Jacquard.
--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: No TrueType Fonts in OS/2 2.1 ?!
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:05:04 GMT

rbotimer@max.ct.gmr.com (R Douglas Botimer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.193312.16367@clark.dgim.doc.ca> tennesen@mars.dgrc.doc.ca  
>(Andy Tenne-Sens) writes:

>Some stuf deleted:

>:I'm disturbed, however, that a recent posting stated that IBM has decided
>:not to support TrueType scalable fonts.  Does anyone out there know if
>:this is so?  Will IBM depend on Adobe for scalable-font capability?
>:If I run OS/2, will I still be able to use Word for Windows 2.0 and
>:some kind of scalable fonts?  Will I still be able to embed equations
>:and graphics into my documents?

>more deleted:

>Why wouldn't IBM depend on Adobe, along with many other companies?  TrueType is
>is pure Microsoft.  

Apple, not Microsoft.  See the various postings by George Moore (the 
"TrueType Guy" at Microsoft) when asked about TrueType standards: his
response (correct as far as I can tell) is that they are controlled by
Apple and not MS.

The Mac OS also supports TT fonts.

>                    It seem to me that IBM would rather pay royalties to Adobe 
>than to Microsoft.  Looks to me like Microsoft developed TrueType to keep from 
>paying royalties to Adobe and Apple.  October 27 PC Magazine has an
> informative bit on fonts.  Looks to me like ATM is better technology too.

TT was to a large degree (at least as seen from the outside world) developed
in response to the astronomical license fees demanded by Adobe.  It's 
interesting to note the sudden open attitude at Adobe following the
announcement of TrueType.

Better technology?  Maybeso, maybeno.  Personally I don't see any particular
dramatic advantage to either architecture, and for whatever reason there
appear to be more TrueType fonts available (after less than a year of
public availability of TrueType engines) than PostScript.  And yes, before
someone starts an argument I'll agree that many of those TT fonts are
unadulterated garbage, but so are a lot of PS fonts.

Right now I like the interface between the TT engine and the physical 
printer, because for all printer types the job of downloading the
necessary fonts is performed by TT.  ATM doesn't provide that support
in the case of PostScript printers, leaving someone else to remember to
download what's needed...meaning that there's no way to avoid downloading
a huge complete font file if you need just one glyph.  (ATM 2.5 for Windows
supposedly has something along this line; I'll have to go back and reread
the glossy announcement.)

Personally, I use both on Windows, and (obviously) only ATM on OS/2.  Our
corporate standard for PC users is Windows 3.1 (perhaps a couple of
thousand machines), so the heavy-duty stuff is all done in Windows anyway,
at least until NT comes and/or IBM offers us a reason to make OS/2 an
organization standard product.

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman)
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft using "Force"???
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:52:24 GMT

In article <C0o53M.Msz@csfb1.fir.fbc.com>, jbrock@csfb1.fir.fbc.com (John Brock) writes:
|> 
|> What this is really about is control of the language.  In common usage
|> "force" implies both literal physical force and metaphorical mental
|> force.  You want to change the standard meaning of "force", excluding
|> the metaphorical aspect.  Once you have done this you will be able to
|> say, quite accurately and convincingly, that Microsoft is not using
|> force or coercion.  Your opponents, deprived of the use of these words,
|> will have to stumble around looking for paraphrases, which will be
|> unfamiliar to listeners and which will not have the retorical power of
|> the words that were stolen from them.

I have no wish to "control language" or minds or anything else, and its not
clear how I could "steal" a word from anyone across the nets.

|> Naturally I don't want to let you get away with this.  Most people
|> would say that it is sometimes possible to "force" somebody to do
|> something without actually resorting to physical violence or threats of
|> it.  Most people's understanding of "force" in the context of this
|> discussion would include this metaphorical aspect, as is shown by the
|> general unwillingness to accept your new definition.  *Of course* it is
|> metaphorical to say that Microsoft has "forced" other vendors to behave
|> in a certain way!  But it is still a correct use of the word.  We are
|> not going to let you take all the good words for yourself!

By all means, use any word you want.  I just think that using the word "force" 
in this way in this conversation confuses the issue.  It gives the impression
that a cloner literally has no option but to do the will of Bill Gates.  Its
just as confusing as if someone says "Microsoft twisted their arms and made
them buy windows" and everybody starts thinking that Gates has taken up
arm wrestling and is literally twisting their arms.

The word "force" gives the wrong impression about what is actually going on,
which is a voluntary agreement between Microsoft and the Cloners.  I think
we'll all agree that when a word gives the wrong impression it shouldn't be 
used.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 bigot and NT
Date: 9 Jan 1993 14:59:03 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan9.012848.3728@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>	The one that doesn't--or *suppposedly* doesnt (I don't believe
>	it for a second) is NeXT486.  Supposedly, it will only run on
>	a genuine Intel 486SX or DX.  The Cyrix 486slc (?) is a full 
>	80486 sans coprocessor (and Cyrix's external is faster than the
>	DX's internal one).  NS486 will probably run fine--but NeXT
>	says no.

Actually, I had thought that the Cy486SLC was a beefed-up _386_ (improved
pipelining, on-chip cache, etc), designed to drop into a 386 socket. There are
6 instructions that Intel added to the 486 beyond the 386/387 instruction set,
and NS486 makes very heavy use of at least one of them (a byte-swap
instruction).

I'm sure that when NS486 and the Cy486SLC are both on the market, we'll find
out for sure...
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
      "Science is all in the public domain, and allows few secrets."
              -- Tom Clancy, _The Sum of All Fears_
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: OS/2 Commercial
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:45:09 GMT

dhaliwa@ecf.toronto.edu (DHALIWAL BIKRAM SINGH) writes:
>At the beginning of Star Trek (broadcast nightly here in Toronto at 
>7:00 pm) IBM had a OS/2 commercial on.  The commercial revolves around
>a pool table with balls being pocketed as the announcer espouses all
>of OS/2 virtues (ie. true multitasking, GUI etc.).  I agree it is
>attention getting, and I think it is effective in its simplicity. 
>If anyone else has seen the commercial, what do you think?
>
>-- 
> 
>.............................................
> Bikram Dhaliwal (dhaliwa@civ.toronto.edu) 
> Toronto        (dhaliwa@ecf.toronto.edu) 


This is the same commercial they played during the Fiesta Bowl. You have
to keep in mind to which audience IBM is reaching out (Fiesta Bowl).
Pool is the second favourite after-hour sport after Bowling. It is played
by a young crowd. It might not have much to do with OS/2 at first sight but
it has "hidden" messages.

IBM does a lot of advertisement and sponsors lots of things. Just look
at todays San Antonio vs. Phoenix game (114:113). IBM logos everywhere.
I am not saying that this is the way to do it but it has some purpose.

Personally, I believe that outrage sells (Just like Howard Stern said). Be
it in Beer, Sport, or even computer commercials. They could have shown a
Multimedia presentation where some dancers or something of this nature
appears. Make it male and female so it appeals to both sexes. I can 
guarantee anybody that IBM will be the number 1 company in have enormous
sales. Today, people go for this.

In the day time I would play some cartoons to appeal to the younger people.
Some game in a windows with spectacular graphics. After 6PM back to the
above.

How does this sound? <g> Other similar suggestions? <g>

Best Regards,
Mark K.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: A happy ending.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:12:24 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

In article <1993Jan12.175549.15638@netcom.com> rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes:
>I wish to report that IBM is doing a great deal to assist me in
>response to my early morning bitch.  Thanks to some unsolicited and
>excellent technical advice from an IBM developer in Boca I now see a
>very elegant and simple way to accomplish my goal without need for the
>driver at all.  A much better solution than the one I envisioned.
>
>I probably should have seen this method myself but OS/2 is so rich
>functionally that it escaped my notice.  There is a lesson here.
>Had I known of this long ago, my product would be out there now.
>This was not so much a matter of asking the correct question in an
>IBM or other forum but rather a matter of consultation.  Had I been
>able to contact and discuss my goals with someone that had an in
>depth technical awareness I would have gone down the correct path
>long ago.  If such a consultation path exists within the DAP, I was
>not made aware of it.  If not, I loudly suggest it.
>
>As I was typing that I received a call from John Soyring's office
>in which it was suggested to me that just such a resource is what
>is missing in the DAP and that the need is being addressed.  Herein
>is what I see as a fundamental difference between IBM and MS.  The
>"new IBM" seems very willing to acknowledge its mistakes (once they
>are made apparent to the right people) and make the requisite
>adjustments.  Many Thanks.
>
>Peace,
>
>Bob

Wow. It's not often you see stories like this have a happy ending.

Good deal!

:-)

cpk
-- 
"The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only.  If you gotta load or un-
load, go to the WHITE ZONE.  You'll love it.  It's a way of life!" --Zappa

Technology always seems to keep one step ahead of human wisdom.
From: pathak@mitre.org (Heeren Pathak)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: VMS & NT Joke
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:35:53 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Organization: Mitre Corporation

This is from a friend inside of DEC.

VMS++ = WNT (Windows NT).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heeren Pathak                      | Millions long for immortality who do 
pathak@mitre.org                   | not know what to do with themselves
Mitre Corporation                  | on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
(617) 271-7465                     |	               	-- Susan Ertz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Mine not Mitre's.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod)
Subject: Re: Does IBM have an Internet email address?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 20:52:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.072115.12666@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) (OS/2) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.212952.29167@zooid.guild.org> Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>>There are several officials from IBM reading this and other conferences. I
>>have suggested to create a newsgroup called comp.os.os2.suggestions or
>>something similar. This would benefit both, the users and IBM. Is anyone in
>>the process of taking votes for the new newsgroups?
>
>Would comp.os.os2.beta fit the bill?  This proposed newsgroup would
>allow beta OS/2 2.x users to trade information.  Whenever IBM comes out
>with a new beta, then this newsgroup will be busy reporting bugs.  But
>as the beta improves, posts in this newsgroup will shrink.  Then people
>can propose new OS/2 features for future betas.  In other words, OS/2
>system programmers or designers can read this newsgroup to read either
>about beta bugs or suggestions for new features, depending on the
>progress of a given beta OS/2.
>
>>Best Regards,
>>Mark K.
>
>-- 
>======= Mike Levis   mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu =======
>::  ftp ftp-os2.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151) for OS/2  ::  .--.
>::  software & information.   Get /pub/os2/00Index  :: (OS/2)
>::::::::  & /pub/os2/all/info/faq/faq20i.txt  ::::::::  ~--~

I would second that motion. IT would provide a forum where beta
testers could compile their information as a valuable resource for
IBM, developers and users alike. Right now the only real
comprehensive listing that I have seen has been the FAQ posted by
Timothy Sipples. Hats off to Mr. Sipples on an excellent job.

Oh, one more thing. Make the group moderated. This way, hopefully
the advocacy and the sniveling will stay in .advocacy where it
belongs.

...Paul

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            Bureaucracy: noun, plural - Bureaucracies.
         The process of turning energy into solid waste.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates:  What a weenie...
Date: 09 Jan 93 12:18:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

In article <1993Jan8.173936.17197@nosc.mil> discar@nosc.mil wrote:

> 
> However, I tend to agree that Windows (as it comes on disk) is not an operating
> system until it is installed on a machine.  The result, "Windows" or to be
> more precise, "Windows+DOS" is an operating system that is far different than
> just "DOS."
> 
Then again, the only advantage that a pre-installed OS/2 has over a 
pre-installed Windows is the number of disks you can use a paperweights.
Very few "Operating Systems" operate any systems until they are installed ;)

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions.
From: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tidbits 01/06/93
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: mike.dickson@almac.co.uk (Mike Dickson)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371

MK..I'm still wondering about one thing.  Bill Gates' Big Secret.
MK..When is MS going to start selling hardware?  They could make a killing
MK..selling Alpha's + NT.

Really? Who's going to buy them? In saying that, if the Alpha runs at 5
times the speed of a 486/50 as is reported then it might make NT seem
almost a plausible alternative.

/\/\ | |< |.                                     mike.dickson@almac.co.uk
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Politics is for people who can't face science fiction
                      
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy