From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Types of Magic
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:43:28 GMT

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

>ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

>>>call Deity Magick.  But Vitalism?  I missed the original post, so I haven't
>>>the foggiest what is meant here...I suspect that I'd include it with either
>>>Mentalism or Natural Magick.
>>
>>Vitalism deals with tapping into vital force, which is often called chi.  It
>>is the natural energy which everything which lives exudes.  Vitalism is the
>>least specific magic, in a sense, because it deals in raw energy.  The
>>typical ring dance to raise energy in Wicca is an obvious example of Vitalism.

>Hmm.  I'd still tend to place it as a kind of cross between Mentalism and
>Natural Magick...of which some forms of Wicca are good examples.  Much of
>what they do seems to be Deity-oriented at times, so some could go that way
>as well.

I wasn't referring to the religion Wicca, but to one particular practice 
within the religion.  The circle dance doesn't involve communicating with
natural entities, so it isn't Naturalism, and it is based on life-force,
rather than mental energy, so it isn't Mentalism.  Of course, that is just
argument in support of what I've concluded experimentally.  (I am primarily
Vitalist.)  Vitalism is represented in the Wizardry of the Earthsea series
as well as the Magecraft of Lackey's Valdemar books.  Lackey is a good example
since she also distinguishes between Mind-magic and Magery.

>>Spiritualism deals with spirits--incorporeal entities.  This 
>>totems, etc, but does not have to do with religion/deities.

>Granted; perhaps Deity Magick *was* a bit of a misnomer.  I had in mind
>the types of magic which deal with intelligent non-corporeal entities,
>such as totems, certain spirits and deities.  Does your last sentence
>here imply that your classification of Spiritualism does not include
>religion, or that it includes religion and more?  Do you consider
>religion to be a class of magic?

I don't consider religion to be the same as magic.  I do consider some actions
which are performed within a religious context to be magic, but that is not
the whole religion.  IMO, religion includes lots of meaningful stuff which is
not magic, and magic includes lots of useful stuff which is not religion.  As
to what God/desses *are*--I don't know.  My experience, however, is that they
can express themselves in the metaphors of any of the magical Realms, and
outside of magic altogether.  I suppose, however, that those phenomona which
I consider to be magical which relate to Gods (divine possession, prophecy)
are within the Spiritualist Realm.  So I guess I partially take back my
previous disagreement with your statement.  However, there is still something
which I sometimes call operative mysticism (which I previously called 
clerical magic) which I do not consider to be part of any magical Realm.  I
don't think that it is properly magic at all--though I used to.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
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                                      --DACCrowell
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