HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: quarter sheets and Sentimentality
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:38:15 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Hi,
I now am able to receive the Equine Digests, so am able to read all the
messages.  It seems our site isn't getting all the postings that are out
there.

Thanks to all who sent me info and suggestions for Quarter Sheets!  And
thanks to Margaret & Kaiser in Alberta for sending me all the posts I missed.
I really like the idea of finding old wool blankets to convert.  I already
have a huge old wool blanket that I've always used to wrap (literally, cause 
it is really big) around Quest if he has to have a bath in cooler weather.  This
will be sewn into a cooler shape and maybe there will be enough left 
over for a Quarter sheet.

Regarding the posts on Sentimentality and what to do with your horse
when his/her time has come.  I personally will NOT send Quest to a 
slaughterhouse.  That is not the end I want to envision for him, or 
live with myself.  What a friend of mine did and I will probably do 
if I can, is hire someone with a backhoe to dig the grave, then have 
the vet give him an injection, so he is painlessly, peacefully and
humanely put down.  I am not interested in "recycling" my horse, I want
to know he is resting in peace, and yes that is sentimental, but he
has given me so much, that is the least I can do for him when the time
comes.  I may also look into cremation, but that may be costly for
an animal the size of a horse.
I have also considered what would happen to Quest if I were to die.  I
wouldn't want him to end up in some horrible home.  So I intend to make
a will stating what I want for him.  I will leave money and instructions 
so that someone I trust will make sure he ends up in a proper home and 
is given the care and attention he deserves and needs.

Oh, and aren't those Grooma things wonderful!!!

Also,  does anyone out there have the number for Leanin' Tree, I can't find 
their catalog anywhere, and wanted to order cards.

Melanie
  and Quest
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Animal Rights bashing
Date: 10 Oct 92 06:01:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


	I apologize to everyone for my previous angry outburst.  I
guess I am just tired of having to justify my opinions to people
who don't believe there is such a thing as a GOOD animal support
organization.  (I don't want to be pushed into calling these
organizations by someone else's definition).  The Humane Society
is one of my personal picks for charity, to hear it maligned by
implication was too much.  If Sarah wishes to continue arguing we
can do so by e-mail.  Again I apologize for the anger with which
I responded.

				Tracy and everybody
From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:24:09 GMT
Subject: Re: What to do on a "European Vacation"?
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian


I'd call the major breed associations, they should be able to give you
information on horse related events, stud farms etc., or at least
put you in touch with some one who will. I don't have the numbers with
me now, but I believe the phone numbers for the NA/WPN( NA Dutch Warmblood 
Registry), the American Hannoverian Society, the American Trakehner 
Association and others are in the FAQ.


Have fun!


Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: AS.KCC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Keith Chinn)
Subject: Body clipper advice needed
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:37:24 GMT

Have you considered renting clippers?  We have a local feed and
grain store that rents them by the day.  As I recall (it's been a
couple of years) the cost is about $35 a day.

Renting offers a number of advantages.  If I rent a bum one
(frozen, dull blades, overheats, etc.) I just take it back to
exchange it.  I've never figured out the cost over the long run but
I've always found a friend to share the cost of a day's rental.
It works out great because while one is using a small clipper on
the face, legs and those hard to reach places the other can be
working on the body (we've never worked on the same horse at same
time - I wouldn't recommend it!).  When we're through we just return
the thing reasonably clean and that's all.  No sharpening of
blades, taking apart to clean and oil, etc.

However you go I hope it works out well.

Keith and Kindred Spirit
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horse related injuries
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:31:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct16.213118.17059
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>Does having nose and both cheekbones broken at the same time by an idiot
>ex-racehorse count as *3*?  Last fall when I was prego, my mare stepped
>on my little toe and broke it.  Of course, a week later her son stepped
>on the other one and broke it.  It took *forever* for those toes to heal!
>
>Leigh 

OUCH!!!  Wow!  Leigh, you win the prize.  Having your face smashed in
tops anything I've seen yet.  I broke my nose many years ago and can
verify that it hurts -- can't imagine throwing the cheekbones in, too.
(Actually, the period after the surgery to unclog the septum out of
my nostrils was the most intense, long-term pain I've ever suffered.)

Fortunately, I seem to heal fast.  I'm wearing regular shoes again
and walk with only a slight gimp.  The exquisite shades of color
my toe has been displaying are fascinating, though...

Regards,
Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com
From: wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:07:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Scrambling in the trailer
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

In rec.equestrian, melanie@cayman.amd.com (Melanie Typaldos) writes:
    Anyway, now that I am free to travel with my horses I
    am having a problem with my mare.  She loads into the 
    trailer beautifully and unloads just as well.  The problem
    is that while she is in there she is scambling.
 
    She loaded right back up
    with no problem but began scrambling even while the
    trailer was just parked there!  She seemed to be throwing
    herself from one side to the other. 

    A couple of other facts which may or may not be related.
    She used to rub her tail out when trailered, even 
    through a tail wrap. 
    ----Melanie

Sounds a lot like the problem I used to have.  I sat in the
trailer to look at my mare when she was scrambling.  I found
that as soon as my mare got into the trailer, she would lean
on the center partition and put her feet on the wall.  The more
she leaned, the less stablility she had.  Her feet would
walk up the side of the trailer.  

I took out the center partition.  Problem was solved instantly.
Of course, I can only trailer with a very small horse or foal
along with my mare.

You might try 1> take out the center divider.
              2> find a large trailer to give your horse more room
              3> find a slant load or reverse loading trailer.

Wendy
From: fks@vax.ftp.com  (Frances K. Selkirk)
Subject: Re: Slaughter Houses
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: fks@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 11:16:55

In article <BvtG34.KMu@mail.boi.hp.com> kris@boi.hp.com (kris troxel) writes:

    that showed if all of the pet foods that are consumed were consumed by
    pets there would be 3 times the number of pets as there are. Because of

Hm. Does that take into account extreme waste when one's flakey cats look at
their full breakfasts, and decide to go outside for the day instead?
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Costume classes at dressage competitions
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:42:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


	A question to dressage enthusiasts, I just received my fall
issue of USDF Bulletin and I saw an ad for a big dressage show,
Dressage at the Club, Rancho Riding Club Extravaganza.  In it they
say they will be having competitions for Training thru Grand Prix
Special and Costume, Fourth, Intermediate, and Grand Priz
Freestyles.  Well, I have never seen a Costume Freestyle competition
what are they like, what kinds of costumes do they wear?  Is there
a standard set of rules that such events use?  How wild do the
costumes get?  (We just had our very informal local awards
extravaganza and the costumes were pretty wild.)

				Tracy and everybody
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: why don't kids wear helmets riding
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:17:26 GMT

Can anyone tell me if the Pony Club has requirements for helmets on
kids. and up to what age?  I am just curious because there seems to
be a real lack of awareness regarding the need for helmets on kids
here in Northern California.

A few examples:
Our local junior horseman group was practiceing Team Penning last
Sunday.  I drove by and none of the kids were wearing helmets.

The Lake Co. Fair always has a Gymkhana on Labor Day. All kinds of
kids trying to run barrels-5 year olds on ponies-with no helmet
requirement.  This is the same fairground that requires helmets on
BMX riders.

A group of kids came through my property last week and stopped to
talk. None had helmets.  One girl (11) is a v ry good rider and all
her horses (3) were in hackamores.  ONe little boy was on  his
mother's mare, bareback with a mild snaffle.  He had absolutely no
control and the horse was eating off my hay stack, etc.  They went
oon down the road and sure enough the mare took off on the paved
roal and he couldn't stop her.  I am shocked  is mother would let
him go out like that.

My sister was up for a visit and saw that I require all little kids
being LED on our pony and riding in the cart wear our helmets.  She
went home and told a friend of hers who just bought a POA for a
little 8 year old boy. Well, last weekend the little boy went trail
riding with their neighbors.  This very well trained POA spooked and
bolted and the boy fell off on the hard dirt road and hit his head,
but HE WAS WEARING A HELMET.  The doctor in Emergency said is he had
not been wearing the helmet he probably would have VERY extensive
head injuries.

I see all the time, parents putting kids who can hardly ride on
horses that aren't very dependable, with no helmets.  I just can't
believe it.  We met a little girl on vacation who has been winning
ribbons in Gymkhana since she was THREE.  Never wore a helmet.  So,
maybe I am overreacting.  My my little girl is 5 and I know she is
not
ready to be riding on her own.  She is simply not strong enough to
control our pony if she was in a situation where SHE NEEDED TO.
 t
Am I just paranoid and overly concerned or is there still a lot of
ignorance regarding safety in the horse industry?

(By the way-I have to admit that I don't wear a helmet trailriding,
though I do have safety stirrups with toe guards.  However, I still
feel I can dismount and land on my feet quickly-I know it doesn't
matter)

Any opinions appreciated.

Karen
From: jhelms@cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Jill Helms)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: human evolution and morphological arguments
Date: 13 Oct 1992 15:25:16 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jhelms@cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Jill Helms)
NNTP-Posting-Host: cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: jhelms@cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu


May I just say something here?  The idea that Tracy has presented a morphological
argument for human beings eating nuts and berries because of the shape of their
teeth is a new one on me.  I'm a dentist (periodontist) who does research and
I have never, ever heard of this argument for why teeth have the morphology that
they have!  Where exactly did you get this information?  I've been at this for
over 10 years, so I'm not exactly a neophyte... just confused by your arguments!

Anyway, I'm really much more interested in horses than in talking about tooth
morphology, but I thought I'd jump in when the conversation veared into my area
of expertise.

Jill and Follow Your Bliss (all teeth intact on both of us)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Pulling again!
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:58:23 GMT


#On 7 OCT 92, Sue Bishop said:
#There are pulling contests at the local fairs here in Ohio.   I LOVE to
#go and see the 'big uns' compete.  Profanity and whips are forbidden by
#the rules, the horses are always in excellent condition and groomed to
#the 'inth degree.  I have NEVER seen anyone mistreat a draft horse at any
#of these competitions.  After reading the story about the man who 'rescued'
#the pulling horses, I wonder if he might have been an Animal Rights
#activist.  I've heard of some really screwy behavior out of them.  The
#AR group on the net has several wild and crazy people on it who consider
#any activity involving use of horses as cruelty.
#
#Sue
#
After reading several (if not all) of these replies, I'm think I
see a pattern. Are not the "cruel treatment of draft horses"posts
coming from Canada and the "whips and profanity are not allowed"
voices coming for the US?? Could it be a difference in showing rules
between the two countries?

Just wondering.
Diane
From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:28:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Support against Inhumane Slaughtering
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

/ hpspdla:rec.equestrian / pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas) / 11:01 am  Oct  7, 1992 /
In article <1992Oct7.025741.10501@infonode.ingr.com> blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe) writes:
>>
>>  Foriegn countries are buying horses at auctions in the U.S 
>>and killing them inhumanely over sea's. 
>>
>>If anyone is interested in helping, there is more on this subject 
>>in the nov. issue of HORSE illustrated. Or you can contact the Coalition
>>Against the Horse Slaughter Trade, PO Box 907, penngrove, CA 94951
>>Or call (707) 762-3644
>> 
>>  The Coalition offers info on petitions and info on how to support
>> the fight against inhumane slaughtering.

>Note that the name of this coalition is "Against the Horse
>Slaughter Trade", NOT  "Against Inhumane Horse Slaughter".  So I would be
>concerned that this group would use donations to fight *horse trade*,
>period. 


Unless I am mistaken, one of the main organizers of this group is a 
Trakehner breeder originally from Germany, who now lives in Northern CA.
I doubt that she would be interested in stopping horse trade since that
would affect her income. I believe the group is exactly what it's name
says "Against the Horse Slaughter Trade".
			^^^^^^^^^
Any one with any more info on the group?

Also, realize that there is a significant trade in stolen horses which
are sold to rendering plants. I believe the new CA legislation requiring
inspection of horses leaving the state for slaughter( and comparing them
to descriptions or stolen horses) was started by several owners who had
their horses stolen and recovered them from rendering plants ( barely in
time ).


Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:27:49 GMT

In article <ldlv03INNitu@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> clarefg@bestbet.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>At a dressage clinic this weekend, I ran into something very different 
>that also seems to fit under the leg yield umbrella.  The instructor was
>asking all of the riders to have their horses cross their hind leg on
>the circle.  This is for balence and suppleness.
>
>It was accomplished by using loose outside rein and tight inside rein and
>lots of outside leg.  Reggie was able to do this but it was very tough as 
>we have only been in training for 12 weeks and he was a weekend horse
>for three years before I bought him.
>
>Has anyone ever used this technique in their dressage work and if so,
>has a made a difference?  I am leery of doing to much of this at our level
>as Reg seemed to get a bit sore.  
>
>Clare and Reggie
>

 I am slightly confused...this sounds exactly like the exercise Newcastle
 described..leg yield on a circle. But I would say inside leg, not
 outside leg??? Crossing the hind legs is exactly what you get. 
 Was he bringing the haunches into the circle? If so, that's haunches-in
 on a circle and a different subject. Harder than leg yielding so it 
 should be approached later.  Newcastle's exercise swung the haunches
 to the outside of the circle. If they are resisting the leg, then all
 you have to do is open the inside rein and swing their head around.
 That's why it's an easy exercise...kindergarten leg yielding. The 
 instructions are very clear to the horse

 Sometimes circles get to be a bit much for a young horse, and a serpentine
 can work better, where you swing their hind end around with the inside
 thigh, backed up by the leg, backed up by the inside rein. Then the 
 outside leg says, "now go forward" Then change the bend and repeat
 the process on the other side. 
 If this is difficult for them, the counter flexion on a figure eight
 can help. In this case, you're asking for a shoulder-fore, with the
 front legs crossing. As you come to the center, change the bend and
 do counter-flexion in the other direction. When they do a loop well,
 don't change the bend as you come to the center (so you're doing
 a loop with the correct bend) as a reward. 
 My question is ...how does this make him sore? I mean, I wouldn't do this
 nonstop for an hour, but a little bit the first day and more as
 time goes on. I mean, is he lame or does he seem like he doesn't
 want to go forward?

 If this is the exercise you were talking about, it is indeed a
 very valuable exercise...see previous posts, especially concerning
 the benefit to the rider to feel the complete bend.

 patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: cmcconvi@crc.ac.uk (Dr. C.M. McConville)
Subject: ringbone
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:28:44 GMT

Does anyone have any experience of neurectomy as a treatment for ringbone?
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: re: Animal rights bashing
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:35:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In an article in rec.equestrian pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
writes:

>WHOOAAAA Tracy!!  You are confusing animal rightists with animal
>welfare groups.  None of us that I have noticed, and certainly not me,
>have lumped these two totally different groups together.  

>When you say you support animal RIGHTS, that means you support at
>least the platform, and I might assume it means you support the
>violent means of obtaining the goals of the platform.  In that case, I
>have no respect for your opinion, as it means disrespect for human
>life.  If you mean that you support animal WELFARE, then I
>wholeheartedly join you, as I already said to Pam Blythe.

Though there are well-meaning but misinformed groups out there, they are
still working for the well-being of animals.  Instead of bashing these
groups we should work to inform them as well as we can.  Also the
vast majority of all animal support groups do not cling to your 
semantic division of "welfare" vs. "rights" many that call themselves
animal rights groups are in essense welfare groups.  If you make that
distinction based on what the group or the media call animal rights
you may miss out on what the group is really trying for.  A group
of people in Arizona has been trying for years to ban the leg-hold
trap for several very good reasons, first many pets wind up injured
each year while hiking with their human companions, second these
traps are very indiscriminant taking many animals including endangered
species before getting their intended prey, and third they are without
a doubt very cruel.  However the groups fighting this measure including
the NRA and various other hunting and fishing organizations have
labelled this measure as an "Animal Rights Extremist" measure in
an attempt to defeat it, despite that it has written into it specifically
that hunting and fishing are to be protected.  Finally
what you Believe to be "animal rights" vs. "animal welfare" may be
different from what other people believe for example I believe in the
right of domesticated animals to a relatively pain-free life, decent
care, and a relatively pain-free ending.  Whether you like it or
not this is what many Animal Rights groups believe.

				Tracy and everybody
 
					       
  
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sysmatt@aix3090b.uky.edu (Matt Simpson)
Subject: Re: Slaughter
    <1992Oct9.131743.22385@aber.ac.uk>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:28:02 GMT

The discussion of drugs in slaughtered horses reminded me of something
interesting. I've seen lots of medicine labels that say "Not to be used
in animals intended for food" or words to that effect. Once I saw a label 
that said "For use only in horses intended for show, work, pleasure or
racing" I thought about that for a minute, and realized that the drug
shouldn't be used in horses intended for slaughter, but they apparently
didn't want to risk upsetting anybody by mentioning that on the label. 
--
This signature file exists because our crappy newsreader won't work without it.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

Don't  feel bad.  You acted  responsibly  in  finding  Hank a good home
where he has been happy.  You were so  successful  that the new "owner"
felt the same  about Hank and found him yet  another  (appearing)  good
home.  If even 30% of  people  were as  caring/responsible  as you have
been towards your horse friend Hank, this would be a different,  kinder
world.

I think volunteering to take Hank when 4H is done is a good idea.  That
way he can live his old age with you, when less attention  won't bother
him.  Now, while he can handle it, he can have attention and riding and
enjoy his middle age.

The hardest decision for anyone is to let go of someone they love, even
to a better  situation.  True, you may feel guilty for not  checking on
him as often, but you STILL  care.  Its an  imperfect  world and we are
all  fighting  hard  battles to do the best we can.  It sounds like you
have done well.  (and it will  probably be fun to check on HAnk and see
him in 4H shows occasionally!)

Think about it, not only have you helped Hank, but you have helped
your man friend have fun and now you are helping make a childs
dream come true!

good luck,

Donna