From: sabolps2@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Sabol)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Definition of abuse?
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:28:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44705
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr08.230634.24117@sdd.hp.com> geroldf@sdd.hp.com (Gerold Firl) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr4.202207.26484@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>
>>>IMHO you were abused, plain and simple.
>
I think that a very important idea/definition of abuse is that which the 
child (or adult) finds abusive.  For now let me just state this and further
I will talk about the implications and the 'potential problems' of said 
definition.

>As several people have stated, abuse survivors find it very difficult to
>accept the idea of a healthy, consentual sexual relationship between a
>child and an adult. They were the victims (if you'll excuse the term) of
>unhealthy, exploitative sexual relationships. 
>
I think what you say here Gerold is very important and deals with the
'flip side' of the suggested definition.  You enjoyed yourself.  You
STILL feel that way.  You do not feel exploited.  I would even say that
I believe you were not because I feel that you would have sensed it if
the person was a perp (getting off AT your expense) even if you were 
pure and sensenting.  The other option is that you have just repressed 
the 'other' feelings.  However, from both your posts this seems very
unlikely...
>
>I think most of us agree that when children "play doctor" or otherwise
>explore sexuality with other children this is also a normal outgrowth of
>their curiosity. 

Here again I agree.  This is a very valid point...but look at this...
>I see no a priori reason why they would not be interested in
>exploring these sensations other than the disapproval they receive when
>adults find out about it.
>
This is exactly the case with me.  I feel abused in doctor play and 
other things both because of the social msgs that were sent to me and
because some of these play times were undenighably abusive (ref to 
a few past posts of mine).  As a result I see an important part that 
ties into the msgs of Prisoner.  The 'first' cause of my abuse was that
my sexuality was shamed.  Maybe some of my play was NOT abusive in the
sence that the other particapent was not the PERP...but my envionmental
influences were/are.  Other time it didn't matter that I was with 
same-aged peers...it was still abusive..keep this in mind too.

>So what about the next step in the progression: sex between a child and
>an adult?
>Sex between
>equals involves a give-and-take where a suitable compromise must be found
>which satisfies both partners. Many survivors in this group have stated 
>that because of the inherent inequality between an adult and child it is
>impossible for them to have a sexual relationship without the adult 
>exploiting their superior experience, power, strength, etc, to take advantage
>of the child in an unethical manner.
>
>Once the issue is phrased this way, it appears to me that the objection 
>to adult-child sex is based on an assumption of adult corruption: the idea
>that the adult will necessarily use their advantages in an unethical way
>to unfairly use the child. If one grew up surrounded by adults who were
>
First let me say WELL SAID...I don't know if I agree with all the cause
and effect ideas being presented as to WHY some of us feel that there
can be non-abusive adult-young person relationships...however, the ideas 
here again can be put the other way...in my case all same age peers 
were ultimately haveing their healthy sexuality with me!

>As a parent, I want my children to guide their own
>pace of development. When they are ready for sex, I think they should 
>decide for themselves how far, and how fast, they want to go.
>I would just want to make sure 
>that they were not getting into an exploitative relationship with someone
>who wasn't interested in their welfare and who didn't treat them with 
>respect. 
>
*Claping* that is a wonderful attitude.  Perhaps if I had that kind of 
environment I would be a in a differant situation.  oh well, I do have
one question...how do yo uplay to MAKE SURE that your children don't
get into an exploitative relationship?  Let me suggest one answer now,
You may already have reduced the chances of such a relationship.  Just
by you keeping to you parenting ideals you have given a safe sexual 
environment!  Way to go.

BTW, thanks to all the people who found courage in my post to my
SHADOW perp......It is really nice to see others see my progress
as well.  Prisoner, are you still with us?
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery