From: mghayalo@uceng.uc.edu (Manoj Ghayalod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Babri Masjid
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:22:12 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Dec16.061742.9370@udel.edu> godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura) writes:
>In article <1glt6kINN4u8@life.ai.mit.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.EDU (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec8.170405.16932@ntmtv> ahmedss@ntmtv.UUCP (Syed Ahmed) writes:
>>>
>>>Peace.
>>>
>>>Syed Ahmed.
>>
>>to put it succinctly, the destruction of the masjid in ayodhya sucks. it is not
>>just a masjid that was destroyed there. it is not the same as destroying any
>>masjid either. this masjid has become a symbol of muslim india, muslim history,
>>muslim rule in india, and muslim presence in india. i said before and it is
>>true. muslims have never been accepted in india, the presence of a few actors
>>and entertainers and some rich folks and even some politicians in india is no 
>>proof that that muslims are accepted there. give a dog his bone and he will eat
>>it. there is no question about that.
>
>Your arguments are muddled, and the point you want to make is unclear.
>>
>>want a divided india, when the day is done, the two are seperate, and never the
>>two shall meet. i am going to withold my judgement on the goodness (or badness)
>>of it, but that is the way things are.
>
>Thanks for your enlightening statements, which, I am sure, will go a
>long way in healing the rifts between hindus and muslims in India.
>>
>>a national day of mourning, pakistani muslims and bengali muslims have reacted
>>very mildly to the situation as a whole.
>
>The understetements of the year. What this clearly shows is that there
>was active encouragement on the part of the Pakistani govt., towards
>reprisals against hindus. What sense does it make, otherwise, to have a
>day of protest against events taking place in another country ?
>
>>
>>the question of revenge is tough. while hindus have been attacked in pakistan,
>>i venture to ask the hindus on the net, how would you react if a government and
>>a people tacitly said to you, we hate you, we have always hated you. get the
>>fuck out of here. otherwise you must become muslim. this is basically
>>what the hindu majority is implying.
>You are insane .. those are the kindest words I can can say to you.
>After all the bending backwords that the Indian government does to
>accomodate the whims of the muslims in India, an idiot like you says
>this.
>
>>
>>it is forgotten that we muslims enriched indian culture ten-fold. what is now
>>tacitly accepted as hindu sounds no different to me than urdu. persian poetry
>
>Well, urdu sounds no different to me from hindi.
>
>>is considered the highest form of verse in literary circles. our languages,
>>turkish, arabic, farsi, made what your language is today. 
>>
>All kinds of crap to prove muslims are the most non violent people on
>earth..
>Guilty conscience ?
>
>>
>>Muslim India has to wake up to the fact that their history is being eroded
>>in many different ways by the infrastructure of the country. We are not
>                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This is priceless. !!!!!
>>the writers of history like a certain professor posted on the net, our
>>history is being told to us in India by people who never liked the history
>>they know about in the first place. Revisionism is taking place and most
>>of Muslim India doesn't even know it.
>>
>>Connected to this is the issue of Kashmir. I read recently that the hindu
>>population of Kashmir was never more than 5% in the last 200 years. The 
>>question that comes to mind is what the hell is Kashmir doing in India?
>
>What the hell are you trying to say. Being muslim implies inherently non
>Indian ? What were you just saying about the injustice of the Indian
>society that apparently does not recognise muslims as equal citizens.
>This is what happens when illiterate assholes like you start posting on
>the net. All bullshit and no logic.
>
>>I don't advocate it being part of Pakistan. I do advocate independance.
>>Please read May 1989 issue of India TODAY. The reaction is connected 
>>in that I can see more riots in Kashmir, and more demands for independance.
>>
>>There is going to be some problems, people.
>>
>>salam alaikum wa rahmatullah
>>
>>Nar-e-Takbir!!
>>
>>zafar
>>minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu
>>minhaszt@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
>
>You non Indian muslims are the height of hypocrisy. With what face do
>you demand secularism in India, when you have already thrown out the
>last of the Hindus from your countries in 1947, merrily destroyed their
>temples over the last 40 years, made them live lives where neither life
>nor property is guaranteed protection, to say little of religious
>rights. Most western nations look upon Islamic countries as nothing but
>hotbeds of fundamentalism, and so do we, in India, look down upon your
>societies as fundamentally underdeveloped. So don't go about giving
>advice to us. 
>We'll protect our minorities, and do what is right, not because idiots
>like you are going to bray so loudly, but because we try do do what is
>right. We try to set right the wrongs of hindu fundamentalists, unlike
>your islamic governments, which are RUN by fundamentalists.
>If you hypocrites feel so much for your muslim brethren in India, why
>don't you do something constructive for them .. donate to their wakf
>boards or whatever.. uplift them a little, because it is doubtless that
>a majority of the muslims in India are extremely poor people, with
>abysmal levels of poverty, illiteracy and living conditions. Perhaps
>this is where the trouble starts from.
>So shut up, set youe own house in order, and then cast stones.
>Ruchir.
>
>-- 
>Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)

Zafar is a complete fanatic.  He is trying to fight for the rights
of the Indian muslims and he calls them dogs, accepting any bones
thrown at them.  How does a nation prove it is secular, by enforcing
Islamic laws on its entire population, or by having a clause in its
constitution that non Muslims cannot hold the highest office in the 
land.  We in India have a different laws for Muslims, is that another
bone?  The Muslims in India have held high offices because they deserved
it.  I now understand why Shiites, Sindhis, Hindus, Ahmadis and Christians
do not hold high offices in Pakistan, you don't want them to feel like
dogs.  On the Babri Masjid issue, we really do not value your opinion,
the Indian govt has banned the RSS and the VHP, Advani and other BJP
leaders are arrested.  The BJP govt has resigned in UP and the govt
has pledged to rebuild the Mosque and most Hindus have publicly
shown support to the rebuilding of the Mosque.

You are saying the response in Pakistan was mild.  Hindu women were
burnt to death and chldren were stoned to death, I assume you want
more bloodshed.  You are trying to defend this action by saying that
they were taking revenge for the destruction for the Babri Masjid.
You think that a human life is less valuable than a Mosque.  That
is your opinion but let me ask you one thing, how come Pakistan
never copies our good points?  Why didn't you copy us in making
different laws for your minorities, throwing bones at your minorities,
making Hindi an official langauge of some state(UP has Urdu as its
second language, it is compulsary to learn two regional languages
in India).  I will tell you why, we are not ashamed of our Muslim
heritage, it is you who are ashamed of your Hindu heritage.

Finally you say our rich culture is due to the Muslims.  I agree
that Muslims have contributed a lot to Indian culture, but have
you forgotten what responses you got when you were trying to
unite the Subcontinent on religious lines.  I will remind you,
Iranis and Afghanistanis wrote to you on soc.culture.Afghanistan
that Pakistan should can the stupid dream of uniting with these countries
because, their culture is completly different from Pakistan's and that
Pakistan has Indian culture.  They also a nation cannot be united
on religious lines, and as an example reminded you how Pakistan
Muslims treated the Bangladeshi muslims.   You are desperately
trying to be like them but they don't want to be like you.  They also
said that if you want to do something for Islam, first clear up
your house of Sunnis/Shiite, Pathan/Mohajjirs and Muslims/Ahmadi muslims.
I also remember the Bangladeshi Muslims and Indian Muslims not identifying
with you.



Manoj