HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs204b00@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Rising Sun (no spoilers)
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:33:36 GMT

Hi!
   I'm new to this newsgroup. Anyway, I was wondering if I missed a discussion
on Michael Crichton's "Rising Sun". I just finished this book during the
break and found it to be the first truly frightening book I've read in years.
Although I've seen this same theme tackled by other writers, Crichton's the
first (to my knowledge) to back it up with research.
   As far as the story goes, it read like a police procedural novel (or one of
Tom Clancy's novels). Admirable realism, extensive research, and unpretentious
writing.
   Standing by to be flamed...                 -----> Kelly Morrison
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Did Jefferson father Heming's child?
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:16:20

In article <1992Apr16.015343.7018@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bl959@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip G. Terrie) writes:


   There is no consensus one way or the other. The biography 
   insisting that he did is by Fawn Brodie: it's an excellent
   book, but there's no way to prove that TJ did or did not have
   children by Sally.

"No way to prove" is too strong a statement.  Philip G. Terrie
gives up too easily.  Has he tried to dig all three of them up
and compare the DNA?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: REC.ARTS.BOOKS.TSR (was 'RFD: rec.arts.dragonlance')
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:39:31 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

Jim the Mann done wrote:

>As to whether it is a good idea--perhaps.  But why place in under
>rec.arts.books rather than under rec.arts.sf, which is the 
>hierarchy designed for fantasy and SF.  I think it would fit 
>better there.  (Actually, I think rec.arts.books.sf would have
>been better than rec.arts.sf.written, but since we have the
>sf hierarchy it should be used for what it was intended for.)

Because we won't have 'em:*)

More serious answer:  there was a big and rancorous split of 
rec.arts.sf-lovers into the rec.arts.sf.foo groups less than a
year ago, and any attempt to put a group like this under that
banner right now would result in Imminent Death of the Net,
etc. . . .


			Lord!  Here comes the flood,
			We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood.
			If again the seas are silent, and any still alive,
			It'll be those who gave their island to survive.
			Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry. . .
				-- Peter Gabriel
		
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: sph0301@UTSPH.SPH.UTH.TMC.EDU (Kate Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: reading in bed
Date: 15 Apr 1992 13:13:58 GMT
Reply-To: sph0301@UTSPH.SPH.UTH.TMC.EDU (Kate Wilson)
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Texas School of Public Health

In article <JMC.92Apr14183753@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>What is the most convenient arrangement people have found?
>What equipment is best?

Propped up on three pillows (staggered such ----
                                              ----
                                                ---- (so my neck doesn't
get stiff) with my little clip-on light (so I can read into the night
without keeping my husband awake)...

kate
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7998 rec.arts.sf.written:5794
From: mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:40:18 GMT
Organization: Sometimes found in a quite disorganized state in Trinity College
              Dublin. Freedom==Anarchy. My opinions are, like my total lack of
              organization, entirely my own fault.

In article <1992Apr6.225452.29417@cs.yale.edu> loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore) writes:

>This newsgroup has seemed kind of slow lately.  Is everybody too busy
>reading books to post here any more?  :-)  What have you all been
>reading?  

Last week I read 'City of Quartz', a Marxist postmodern account of the rise
and decline of LA, and this week I'm working through 'Storming the Reality
Studio'. Next week I plan to read the complete Philip Dick short story
collection, along with his mainstream novels.

As an aside, Tom Maddox' succint account of the Shaper/Mechanist scenario
of Sterling's is quite readable. Schismatrix has been out of print in 
Ireland the the UK since 1986, and was only printed once, by Penguin books, in
an apathetic and halfhearted fashion. As a result, it is almost impossible to
find. Quite sad really, it's a most powerful work.
-- 
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mike@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov Dead ...
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:29:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr9.222933.13213
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Originator: jon@cyclone


In article <1992Apr9.171833.4585@news.arc.nasa.gov>, watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC) writes:
> Once one of my english teachers in high school asked us to do a book
> report by a "minority" author".  So I chose one by Asimov.  
> I explained he was of Russian descent, which I felt was a "minority". 
> My english teacher didn't agree, so I didn't get a very good grade.
> 

You should have mentioned that he was jewish.  Not that it matters
now.  I'm very depressed.  Sorry for this bit of self-indulgence.
-- 

<jon@mitre.org>
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:26:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: eff.1992Apr15.142651.20196
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <jeremy.703305422@chao> jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge) writes:

>I find it fascinating that you can misinterpret English so easily, and
>yet maintain literary pretensions.  As a play on words,
>"bunjee-jumping" is good - it encapsulates the "take a plunge" image,
>but also incorporates the rites of passage that many people here seem
>to associate with reading _Gravity's Rainbow_ and the like.  I'm
>surprised you missed it.

Perhaps I missed it only because "many people here" do not, in fact,
associate GRAVITY'S RAINBOW with a rite of passage. Leroy asserted,
falsely, that Pynchon readers do this, but I dispute him. The ability to 
read the book well says nothing about your manhood--it does say something
about your intelligence and your sensibility.

"Taking the plunge" was a river metaphor rather than a bungee-jumping
metaphor. Some people can't see the order of a river--they prefer their
nice, cosy houses--so they assert that rivers have no order. That's a
mistake.

>>It wouldn't occur to me to insult your manhood. Such as it is.
>
>You are hardly strengthening your argument with mal-formed,
>ungrammatical schoolyard insults.

Fortunately for me, I used a well-formed, grammatical one here.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:8079 soc.history:3641 soc.culture.jewish:8094
From: grady@public.BTR.COM (Grady Ward  grady@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.history,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hitler's Religion (was re: Instant Yuppies)
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:55:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <STEINAR.92Apr14202714@otello.solan.unit.no> steinar@otello.solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf) writes:
>Mikhail Zeleny writes:
>>CEC:[Clayton Cramer]
>>>By 1937,  Pope Pius  XI had  accused National  Socialism  of
>>>"secret and  open fundamental  hostility to  Christ and  His
>>>Church."[2]
>>
>>Note that his successor, Pius XII (reigned 1939--58), an open antisemite,
>>has suppressed the denunciation of Hitler's regime, which was prepared by
>>Pius XI shortly before his death.
>
>Also note that this was a _Pope_ saying this.  Hitler and crew were
>not known for being pro-Catholic.  Without context, we cannot tell is
>"Christ's Church" here refers to Catholicism specifically or Christianity
>in general.
>
>-Cindy Kandolf
> cindy@solan.unit.no
> Trondheim, Norway

This sort of reasoning hardly proves anything.  By the same token, Lenin
had nothing to gain and everything to lose when he stated: "The capitalists
will sell us the rope that we will hang them with" at the time when Russia
was actively seeking foreign trade partners.  Political rhetoric just
happens to work that way.  Keep in mind that every German soldier had "Gott
mit Uns" written on his belt buckle.This sort of reasoning hardly proves anything.  By the same token, Lenin
had nothing to gain and everything to lose when he stated: "The capitalists
will sell us the rope that we will hang them with" at the time when Russia
was actively seeking foreign trade partners.  Political rhetoric just
happens to work that way.  Keep in mind that every German soldier had "Gott
mit Uns" written on his belt buckle.This sort of reasoning hardly proves anything.  By the same token, Lenin
had nothing to gain and everything to lose when he stated: "The capitalists
will sell us the rope that we will hang them with" at the time when Russia
was actively seeking foreign trade partners.  Political rhetoric just
happens to work that way.  Keep in mind that every German soldier had "Gott
mit Uns" written on his belt buckle.This sort of reasoning hardly proves anything.  By the same token, Lenin
had nothing to gain and everything to lose when he stated: "The capitalists
will sell us the rope that we will hang them with" at the time when Russia
was actively seeking foreign trade partners.  Political rhetoric just
happens to work that way.  Keep in mind that every German soldier had "Gott
mit Uns" written on his belt buckle.
-- 
Grady Ward  grady@btr.com  KD6ETH @ K6LY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  Moby Lexicons
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Cruelty in Human History (was Re: The Painted Bird)
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:53:49 GMT

In article <10390@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> 
|> How many movies have been made about the Holocaust?  How many about
|> the Soviet mass murders?  The Holocaust gets FAR more attention in
|> the popular media.  
|> 
|> I'm not arguing for less attention to the Holocaust -- but more
|> attention to the Soviet Union's savagery.  Unfortunately, until
|> very recently, serious criticism of the Soviet Union was considered
|> evidence that you were a "right-wing extremist."  The reason was
|> because much of our intelligentsia were in profound sympathy with
|> the Communist Party.
 
 This sounds like McCarthyist paranoia to me. There's a much simpler reason
why so many more movies were made about the Holocaust: it was something that
the viewing public could identify with. There are many, many families in 
this country in which some members were victims of the Holocaust. There aren't
many Americans whose relatives were victims of the Soviet atrocities. People
will be more likely to watch a movie which they can relate to on a more 
personal level. Thus, the Holocaust is a better subject for films than the 
Soviets' equivalent actions. 
 
 There's an easy way to see if what I'm saying is true: keep an eye on Russian
and Ukrainian (and other ex-Soviet) filmmakers for the next couple of decades.
My guess is that these people will come out with a large number of films about
the horrors of Soviet rule. They will probably get much more exposure in Russia
than the US, for the reasons I've mentioned above.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Why can't people stop taking things so seriously? 
     \_| "All I want is to have my peace of mind" - Boston   
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
Date:  7 Apr 92 03:54:00 GMT
From: Leroy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Distribution: world
Subject: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_

weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>In article <1992Mar29.194133.21609@Cadence.COM>, vince@cadence (Vince Gibboni) writes:

>GR is certainly not a Pollock-like creation.  It has strong patterns
>and interconnections and movements and themes which simply cannot be
>presented in a traditional format, is all.

    A lot of criticism of Pynchon gets dismissed this way. I'm curious: what
possible themes, ideas, etc could Pynchon present that _can't_ appear in  
"traditional" formats?

    People use the same excuse for Kerouac, but his "Gee whiz, I sure like 
jazz and travel" ideas never seemed too difficult. It's fascinating that
Kerouac, Pynchon and the excerable Tom Robbins are lauded for their inability
to maintain narrative, and specifically for their lazy editing. (One apology:
Robbins can write a "nice" story. Pity he can't make it interesting).

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu)


--
-- Leroy@socs.uts.edu.au                    "Porn-o-graphic! Un-American Trash!"
                                                    -- Trailer, the Naked Lunch.
From: Rudy.Zalesak@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rudy Zalesak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Muir's writings
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:53:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

There is at least one illustration in his autobiography (at least in the old 
edition I used to have) of the clock; it looked quite fanciful. John Muir 
probably built the things and then improved on them years later in his
memory. 
		Rudy Zalesak

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Irving parodying Davies? (was Re: read any good books lately?)
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:47:02 GMT

In article <9204111706.AA08061@lib.uwo.ca> Margaret Martin Gardiner
<gardiner@lib.uwo.ca> writes:
>A Prayer for Owen Meany was reviewed in a small book group I belong
>to and the person reviewing it suggested that it is perhaps a parody
>of Fifth Business.

That's an interesting idea.  I hadn't noticed the similarities when I
was reading _Owen Meany_, but I can believe that Irving was thinking
of Davies' book.  I'm not sure I'd call it a parody, though.  Irving's
narrator is more than a play on Davies', however much they have in
common.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Business Novels
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:15:55 GMT
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA

In article <92104.132630FJM1@psuvm.psu.edu> FJM1@psuvm.psu.edu (Frank Mulhern) writes:
:I teach undergraduate senior business majors.  Right now I require them to
:read BABBITT by Sinclair Lewis.  Some students have asked me to recommend
:other novels for them to read.  Remarkably, many of these students have
:made it to the last semester or their senior year without reading any novels.
:I am looking for other business novels to recommend.  I'd prefer to avoid
:the businessman as tycoon types novels (e.g., THE JUNGLE, Upton Sinclair).
:I would like the students to get a feel for the nature of working is
:business.  If you have any ideas, pease send them to me.  Thanks.
:
:        Frank Mulhern   Department of Marketing
:                        Penn State 814-865-0232    FJM1 @ PSUVM

Wheels, Arthur Halley's (sp?).  Interesting insight into the American
auto industry.

Bottom Line, (I think this was by Fletcher Knebel).

Cross of Solid Gold, John D. MacDonald.  This is a short story
that was published in an anthology.

Soul of a New Machine, by Tracey Kidder.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
From: s913391@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Antony Ross Lazarus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov Dead ...
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:27:30 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

jxr@thumper.bellcore.com (Jonathan Rosenberg) writes:

>.... at age 72.

>JR

Let's take a minute of silence in the honour of Sir Isaac Asimov...
May he RIP with his robot servants....

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Walrus GOO GOO GOO JOOB      |            email welcome:
                                 |
"I am he as you are he as you    |       s913391@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
 are me and we are all together" |       s913391@yallara.xx.rmit.oz.au (pref.)
				 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
Subject: Re: Irrelevant _GR_ question
Reply-To: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 17:15:29 GMT


In a previous article, tmaddox@milton.u.washington.edu (Tom Maddox) says:

>In article <1992Apr14.145843.27141@hemlock.cray.com> n2412@cray.com (Joe Green) writes:
>>Actually Kirghiz Light was the name of the beer Tom and I drank
>>when we went to baseball games with Salinger and Solzhenitzin.
>>Solly named it and its ingestion effected much raucous laughter
>>(tho Jerry told me he never got the jokes).
>
>	That's because Solly kept telling them in Russian and sobbing
>so hugely you couldn't hear a word he said.  Though to be fair, if Jerry
>didn't wear that false nose and ears, he might hear better.


Is that why I didn't recognize Jerry when James Earl Jones played
<him> in Field of Dreams?

Gary Lee Stonum
From: taube@oregon.uoregon.edu (Christian Taube)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Tolkien way..
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:33:46 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon

In article <morteng.34@loke.dhhalden.no> morteng@loke.dhhalden.no 
(MORTEN GRAESBY) writes:
>First: Is there any special group for discussions about the Tolkien- books?

There is nothing more "specific" than this on Usenet. There _is_,
however, a Bitnet mailing list: TOLKIEN@JHUVM.BITNET. This is a
very specific group, as the title says, and has rather high-level
discussions in it. To get on there, send this command in a mail
message to LISTSERV@JHUVM via your nearest Bitnet gateway:

subscribe tolkien Morten Graesby

To get general help about how to use a LISTSERV, send this
command to your nearest Bitnet host:

get help

If you don't know where or who that might be, ask your system
administration first before asking the whole world. If you do
know, forget what I just wrote :-).

>I guess it's alright to discuss anything related to books in this news-group?
>(I'm news to this group)

I guess in a group called rec.arts.books it's alright to talk about
books, yes :-).

Take care,

Christian.
--
(If you want to see the bilder deepen your ear on the movietone!) FW 062.08
---- Christian Taube -- taube@oregon.uoregon.edu + taube@oregon.BITNET ----
-------------------- Scientific progress goes 'boink'? --------------------
Disclaimer: I don't speak for the University of Oregon, nor does it for me.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Cruelty in Human History (was Re: The Painted Bird)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1992 22:42:36 GMT

In article <1992Mar26.155952.18406@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:

>I also think its because the Nazi holocaust is better publicized.  There
>are numerous books, movies, museums and the camps themselves in 
>Germany.  There are groups dedicate to keeping the memory alive.

Uh, there was a fellow named Solzhenitsyn who wrote a few words about the
Soviet camps. It's not that the Soviet camps were underpublicized--it was
that theey were different in character. Read THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO and
compare it to, say, Primo Levi's THE DROWNED AND THE SAVED or A SURVIVOR
IN AUSCHWITZ.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Half a Joke (was Re: read any good books outside museums lately?)
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:03:43 GMT

In article <1417@heurikon.heurikon.com> gtaylor@vme.heurikon.com (Gregory Taylor) writes:

>A nice vile quote: The narrator is walking down the street with his 
>mother, when they come upon two dogs ah...mating. "Really going at it,"
>as the narrator says. He asks his mother what the dogs are up to [Dogs
>are big stuff in this book. Messengers from God, in fact.], so he can
>hear her answer [he knows of course].
>
>"The dog on the bottom is sick, honey," she replies. "The other dog is
>pushing her to the hospital." 

Interesting.  That is about half of a joke that was accidentally told on
the radio about a year ago by one Bobby "I Hate Everyone Equally" Slayton
on the local radio station.

(How do you accidentally tell a joke on the radio?  Simple.  They were
playing a commercial -- and the show's host, Alex Bennett, forgot to
turn off Slayton's mike.)

The setup is the same; the two dogs are doing their thing in the road and
the kid asks his mother what's going on.

"The dog on the _top_ has hurt his leg, honey," says mom, "and the
other dog is helping him get to the hospital."

"Isn't that like life?" says the kid.  "You try to help someone and
you get fucked."

(badabing, badaboom.)

Well, it was funny at the time.  Probably because it was so unexpected
on the radio. . .

			Lord!  Here comes the flood,
			We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood.
			If again the seas are silent, and any still alive,
			It'll be those who gave their island to survive.
			Drink up, dreamers, you're running dry. . .
				-- Peter Gabriel
		
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books