From: roderir@hobo.ECE.ORST.EDU (richard roderick)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: MurderPhobes, RapistPhobes, etc. (was: Re: antihomosex...)
Date: 18 Dec 1992 20:59:19 GMT
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobo.ece.orst.edu
Keywords: Phobia, Homosexual

In article <1992Dec18.152917.10769@rchland.ibm.com> jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:
>Homosexuality includes two consenting adults, not children.
>

We aren't just talking gay rights here! We are talking sexual rights and
we DO have the right to limit them.

>The government should stay out of peoples bedrooms.  What 
>happens between consenting adults is their own business.
>

We aren't coming into your bedrooms, YOU are coming into our living rooms
and make everything VERY public.

>Doesn't it also say "judge not lest ye be judged"?
>Does this disallow judges?  Can we have no more courts
>or systems of punishment, according to the bible?
>

Aww, here we go again. You can't take the Bible out of context.
You are correct that we should not judge others.  As a matter of fact
Christians are no llonger under the laws of the Bible, but rather
under grace.  What does that mean?  It means we must still do what
Jesus Christ would do.  What would he do?  He would love everyone
whether or not they are a homosexual.  He would go to their house
and eat with them before he would go to a Christians house and eat
with them. Why?  Because he came to save the sinners not those who
already have salvation.

Would he condem them?  NO!
You see I don't wish to condem Homosexuals, and passing laws against
them isn't necessarily the right answer, it isn't what Christ would
have done.  If you will read the Bible you will find that the law
came because the people wanted it, not because God said do this or
that.  The law did not come until Moses, many years after the creation.

I apologize that my previous post was so negative but a wish to show
people that there is reason behind what our laws say, and often they
are good.

Gay's in the military?  Are there not already gays in the military?
Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary?

Well, I believe it is not necessary to allow gays in the military.
Some facts: less than 5% of the population is gay.
	    60% of all cases are of gays.
Can we afford to pay the bill?
Nope.

We would not need courts if people obeyed the laws in the Bible.
But since God has allowed people to chose to sin we need judges
to keep order in our democracy.
If we did not have a democracy we would not need judges.  We would
simply say murder is a crime you go to jail, no trial, no judge.

>The Bible is one book out of many.  Why should we
>use that instead of the Koran?  

This is a very said statement.  Why?  Because the Koran is almost
identical to the Bible. (you can figure out the rest)
The other problem with this is that our country's founders based
it on the Bible and that was what I was talking about.
(if you don't believe our founders were Christians read George
 Washington's speech to define Thanksgiving Day!)

>It is not my free choice if the law is based on the bible.  Then
>I am forced to live by it whether I choose to or not.  This is 
>unconstitutional.  Don't try to force your beliefs on others.

Again a mistake.  Because we have laws that are based on the Bible,
or anything does not mean you have to agree with those laws.  You
just have to follow them.  You are welcome to try and change them,
just please don't call us HomoPhobes if we don't let you.

>[pointless stuff deleted] 
***
It wasn't pointless, it was a good point from a NON-CHRISTIAN perspective.
***

>Other than the bible, you couldn't come up with one good
>reason why homosexuality should be banned.  And in this
>country, "the bible told me so" is not a good enough
>reason for a law.

Other than the Bible AND the stoping the spread of terminal diseases,
there are no good reasons. Sooo.... As long as the Bible is not diproved
MILLIONS of americans will continue to believe in it.

You want proof?  Try reading "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh
McDowell.  (Although I doubt you care)

>I don't care if you oppose homosexuality, and I don't care
>if you hate them.  What I do care about is people whose
>civil rights are being taken away by a group of narrow
>minded persons like yourself.  If you want to live by
>the bible, you don't have to try push it on others.

I do oppose homosexuality, but I do not hate homosexuals.  Who decides
what are civil rights?  You?  NOT!  We do, as in the majority.  So if
the majority decides Christianity should be banned then it would.
Although I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
(That is what some groups are trying to do though)

>This country and Christianity are two different things.

Wrong again.  People religous beliefs are the core of this country!

>Folks like you make other Christians look bad.  You 
>remind me of the Iranian Fundamentalists, completely
>intolerant of anyone who is not exactly like you.  
>To say homosexuals are all pedophiles is ignorant and
>bigoted.  And I will not say that you are homophobes
>any longer.  I will call you righteous, religious bigots.

When did I say I was intolerant?  When did I say homosexuals are
pediphiles (sorry for previous mis-spelling)?  I said the homosexual
movement wants complete sexual freedom and pediphiles is include in
that.  Also, do you think pediphilia is wrong?  Isn't it their business
what they do in their bedrooms?  No, because society says so.
It is not a civil right to have sex with a conseting child. PERIOD.

Jared I appreciate your views and thank you for reminding me that we
are not to be judgemental (so don't judge me), but rather to love one
another, for love is God and God is love. (Love does not mean sex!)

I hope people see that it is not necessary for the military to accept
homosexuals and that passing laws against homosexuality is not necessarily
correct either.  We should not teach it as normal in schools! And we
should not promote it as a normal life style to others.  We just don't
need to pass laws AGAINST it.

Richard A. Roderick
Many of my views are the views of many other Christians,
but unfortunately not all.