From: axg708@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Ashraf Ghebranious)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Read this before getting involved in Scientology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:07:15 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.56.5.23

In article <raz.724301163@syzygy> raz@socs.uts.edu.au (The Inimitable Raz) writes:

>>In article <10350@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>,
>> aabst5@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>>> Think about the eleven top Scientologists, including Hubbard's wife who have
>>> gone to prison in the early 80s for infiltrating, burglarizing and wiretapping
>>> more than 100 private and government agencies in attempts to block
>>> investigations.
>>>
>
>>    So what?  They went to jail for overstepping their bounds and breaking
>>the law in an attempt to protect their religion.  
>
>So ... think about why proponents of this organisation would break the
>law of the government of the land (remember, of the people, by the people,
>for the people?) to hide their crimes? (crime: Violation of local 
>laws.) This IS a valid consideration. Society, yours and mine, 
>substantiallt limit the survival capability of persons known to consort
>with criminals, regardless of the 'morality' of the crimes in question.
>Whilst to an insider these penalties are not sufficient to discourage
>Scn involvement, an outsider who currently lives in the contraints
>imposed by his/her society may consider this a little worrying.
>
I agree with Raz here John. What kind of religion condones members to break 
a law of the land? They way you wrote it John, sounds like these criminals 
are true heroes for you and perhaps others in the church. Your church might 
believe that these people had a right to defend their opinons, but not to 
the point of committing an offense. You do not see modern chuches and 
religions defiantly breaking the law. Sure, in the past they have, but even 
those churches do not suppress this knowledge from the world. Most orthodox 
churches do not set up a "pay to reach salvation" system of teaching. The 
teaching is free to all at NO COST WHATSOEVER. If someone wishes to donate, 
then they do. No one is FORCED to donate to move on to the next level of 
enlightenment.

Your church's views on expansion through wealth, does not seem to be 
correct. I can not see how the skill of selling and money making is going to 
show me enlightenment or even how the skill will help through the "ring of 
fire". I am currently reading "Bare Faced Messiah", and am quite disturbed 
by the difference in LRH's life as he portrayed it, and what really happened 
according to verifiable fact. I have seen very little attempt to discredit 
these discrepencies from the church, so can only assume that they have been 
accepted by the church as the truth. My questions regarding this, and it 
is open to all readers of this net, is :

     (1) Why would the man openly lie about his background?

     (2) If he could lie about his own life so easily and readily, why do 
church people believe in Dianetics so unerring? Hell, if he could lie once, 
he surely could lie again?

     (3) Why do Scientologisty fear telling laymen about their beliefs 
openly? I read somewhere that they believe they will be killed if they talk. 
By who/m? Do they really believe this?

     (4) An institute that does not allow the option to question it's faith 
is hiding something, or fears the validity of their faith. Why are there no 
scientologists on the net who will clearly put forward their faith for all 
to see? Tell us exactly what you believe, why you believe it, and if you 
can, how laymen could get a chance to verify your claims.

Now John, I know what you are going to say. I would not normally ask for a 
chance to verify that Jesus walked on water or rose from the dead, BUT 
scientology CLAIMS to be verifiable. So verify please.

By the way, I have not raped any children or have been arrested by the 
police for murder or adultery, so I guess I wont be getting any threats in 
the mail. Pity really.

Ashraf

 







>
>>-John Holifield
>
>--
>Bye for now.
>         - Raz           
>
>raz@socs.uts.edu.au   (Roland Turner)   (OH) 61 2 319 5700
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"Jesus woman! I dont give a f___!" Rhett Butler (slighty paraphrased)

Ashraf Ghebranious                           axg708@cscgpo.anu.edu.au
                                      Australian National University
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