HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Summary: amphibious assault
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:57:38 GMT
Organization: AT&T


In article <1992Dec23.191329.10077@netcom.com>, tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.180850.26863@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec20.091759.27869@netcom.com>, tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
> >> 	A *joking* attitude, it's called, and is easily recognized as such
> >> by anyone with either a clue or a sense of humor.
> >
> >The boys throw stones at the frogs in jest, but the frogs die in earnest.
> 
> 	Imaginary gardens with real toads?

I was thinking along the lines of, well, perhaps little psychic
frogs that we all have within us ... Smurf pelts come to mind here, eh?

> 	I don't think so, Mr. Mammel.  Whatever stones we exchanged on a
> previous occasion (and there *was* a previous occasion, was there not? though
> I don't remember the topic that provoked it), you seem to be doing quite
> well--either that, or frogs post from the afterlife.

Aha! See? You wouldn't remember, would you. And gosh, did I throw back ?

> 	Or, put it another way, any frog that dies from the stones thrown
> on r.a.b. is at the very least taking itself far too seriously.

The poor things just can't help themselves.

Lew Mammel, Jr.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fncll@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 1 Jan 93 10:03:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1993Jan1.020337.1
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Dec31.161524.545@speedy.aero.org>, nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
> In article <1992Dec31.050130.24366@sophia.smith.edu> orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes:
>>Seeing the astounding quantity of books some posters consumed in 1992
>>makes me wonder if reading can be a type of (benign?) addiction.  This 
>>may be an especially apt description of those who (compulsively?) read a 
>>hundred genre novels a year, mysteries or science fiction for example.
>>
> When you talk about genre novels specifically, I think you might want to
> ask what the purpose of reading them is.  Addiction isn't simply the regular
> ingestion of massive quantities of a substance - the desire for escape, or
> other psychological relief, is also implied in the world.  So I would 
> classify reading trashy romances when I was in grad school and just
> couldn't face working as addictive behavior, while reading a mystery a day
> for sheer entertainment (given a sufficient amount of free time that I'm
> not neglecting other pursuits) is not addictive.
> 
>>	Among those who are voracious readers, do you feel the
>>equivalent of withdrawal symptoms when (for whatever reason) you cannot 
>>read for an extended period? 
> 
> 
> I can't imagine not reading for an extended period but I suppose I would
> become intensely bored.
> 
> I do find that I become uncomfortable if I don't have enough books on hand.
> When the unread stack dips to fifty or so, I will invariably find myself
> rushing off to a bookstore.  
> 
> Miriam Nadel


Worse than that, I have to have about ten books going at any one time or I
don't feel right... and there is no danger that I will ever run out of my own
books to read (doesn't stop me from buying more... :)

In Joseph Epstein's book " A Line out for a Walk" he has a very funny and very
true (to me at least) essay on being addicted to reading-- a serious disease
that...

chris
poet and pauper, sure of one not of the other
back again
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:23151 news.groups:24877
From: sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:30:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Univ. of Texas School of Public Health

In article <1992Dec22.175831.28627@nevada.edu> wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE) writes:
>
>I don't understand where these people come off. They enter a room and 
>decide that because they don't like it there, so the rest of us just have
>to stop whatever we were doing and pick up what they want to do. I know
>what to do with guests like that. Throw them out.
>___________________________________________________________________________
>Michael Wise 	(wwhitman@nevada.edu)	UNLV English


EXCUSE ME? 
	 'these people'?  'guests'?  Who died and made you king?
This is a newsgroup, not a private party - there are no hosts and
guests, just a bunch of diverse individuals, some of whom would like
to see more talk about books and less about non-book topics. 

kate wilson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: henrylin@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Henry Hung-i Lin)
Subject: Peter Ackroyd: A Possible Investment As Well As A Good Read?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:44:51 GMT

I recently read a copy of his newest novel _English_Music_ and loved
it. It's been said that many of his other novels and just as good.
Having decided that I love his work I'll probably be acquiring most
of his works. My question is this: Just how popular is he and do his 
books have any investment value/potential? Are there any current authors
who are similar in style or content? Please email responses to me as I
don't read this group every day. Thank you...

					henri
					henrylin@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 17:43:59 -0500
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
	<1992Dec31.175313.25919@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Dec31.211619.5635@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: functor.systemsz.cs.yale.edu
In-reply-to: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com's message of Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:16:19 GMT

ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:

   Speaking of which, another test of biblioholism is: Do you spend more
   time planning what books to take on a trip than what clothes?

Not to mention: do you have to think about what *not* to take with so
you'll have enough room for all the books you'll be coming back with?
Or, do you spend more time planning what bookstores you'll visit than
on any other aspect of travel planning?  Or extend business trips by
two or three days so you'll have time to visit all the local
bookstores?

-Sandra (guilty on all counts)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:23:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.113349.5259@panix.com> mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>Heather (hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu) writes to Michael Wise:
>
>> you can ram your inconsequential remarks up your ass.
>
>I fully support Heather's campaign to make r.a.b a friendlier place
>where one can post varied views without fear of reprisal.
>
>Where do we start?
>
>Mark
>

In spite of some of my deplorable transgressions, I do have some ideas
about how to behave.  Here they are, not suggested as a rule for others,
but for a reminder to myself to *behave*, no matter *how* tempting the
opportunity for wit at another's expense or how pressing the urge to
punish someone for how I feel after what they said: 

No namecalling, including times when I write about authors who offend
my sensibilities.  A way to get a point across without attacking is to use
"I" statements.  I.e., instead of making statemens such as "xxxx is a
horrible [bitch, sexist pig, asshole] with no brains or talent," say "I
don't like xxxx's apparent assumption that all women are bimbos." or "I
don't like the way xxxx seems to write so aimlessly.  I seldom understand
what she is trying to say, and when I do, I am offended." 

Respond to attacks in the same way.  "I don't appreciate.... I will not
tolerate....." "I think you have some important things to say, but I'm
busy dealing with hurt feelings; can you phrase that differently so that I
can ......"


Mary Loveless  hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
nothing to do with the University of Washington.

"I wonder how I'd look in *Madonna's* underwear."  Zippy the Pinhead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homeschooling (was  Re: Education and the Environment by Gregory A. Smith)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:49:38 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

This is really is the wrong newsgroup to discuss this contentious
social question, but:

John McCarthy responds to my post:

>> And what really bugs me is that the people who are killing
>> public education by pulling their kids out of public schools
>> have the audacity to blame the problem on "liberal educators
>> with their social agendas" and other imagined demons.

> I don't understand about "audacity".  People could conceivably be
> mistaken in believing that "liberal educators with their social
> agendas" are miseducating their children, 

Thank you for allowing this as a possibility.  I think it's
more than "conceivable".  Sometime in the last decade or so a
culture evolved around bashing the supposed social-liberal
educators, and this culture has a life of its own entirely
separate from anything that's actually going on in
public schools in reality.  IMO of course.

> but if they believe that, what is "audacious" about withdrawing 
> their children.  Does someone have a right to these children that 
> the parents are violating?

I didn't say anything about "rights".  We as a society have an
obligation to educate children in total, and parents have an 
obligation to facilitate this in their specific cases.  If
some parents are (my opinion) making their decisions based on
imaginings rather than fact, then the likelyhood of not
meeting their obligations increases.  Thus they are open
to criticism.  This has nothing to do with "rights" however.

All IMO....

Steve

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:53:45 GMT

In article <1h69a2INNjqr@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>, irwinke@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Keith Irwin) writes:
|> 
|> I'd like to know what people think about New Agers (ie, Europeans and
|> Euroamericans) appropriating the spirituality of various indiginous and
|> small scale cultures.
 
 Appropriating the spirituality of other cultures? Hmm, do you think that
this is a new thing? Take a good look at the history of Christianity, 
Judaism, or just about any other major spiritual movement in the history
of humanity. Every set of religious beliefs borrows somewhat from others.
 
 Consider the holiday you're celebrating this month (or trying hard to 
ignore). What do you call it? Christmas? Chanukah? It's had a lot of other
names over the course of history. It's just the festival of the winter 
solstice, really. Many cultures have one, they just change the name and 
traditions to reflect their particular beliefs. The same goes for Easter - 
a spring holiday celebrating renewal and rebirth has been around a lot 
longer than any of the currently active religions. 
 
 To answer your question, I think that this cultural appropriation is a 
perfectly natural thing for people to do. 
 
 In keeping with the recent Crusade of the White Knights, I suppose I 
should suggest a book or two pertinent to the subject, but I must admit
that this isn't one of the areas in which I'm widely read. Campbell's 
_Masks of God_ series might help to shed some light on this, though.
 
 Happy solstice to all, and to all a good night...
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jmfuchs@unix.amherst.edu (JESSE MICHAEL FUCHS)
Subject: Re: Fuck this thread (was Re: Morally good necessary possible sometimes possible reproductiveness)
Followup-To: rec.arts.books,alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:50:41 GMT

Erin Zhu (zhu@athena.mit.edu) wrote:
> In article <1992Dec21.222509.19819@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
> arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:
> 
> >In <1992Dec21.212040.13717@athena.mit.edu>
> >zhu@athena.mit.edu (Erin Zhu) writes:
> 
> >>>	So, Erin, it's up to you. Show us the warm, cuddly Mickey that melts
> >>>your heart. 
> 
> >>Hey, the man's got a net.reputation to keep up, y'know? 
> 
> >Something like Darth Vader, isn't it?
> 
> Oh yes, every bit as dashing.
> 
> (did I say that?!?)
> 
> >Does he take the suit off in bed? :-)
> 
> It rather depends on the (possible) co-occupant of the bed, I think,
> although I've never been able to verify that hypothesis myself.
> 
> >Anyway, thanks, Erin: this post of yours has made my day. Really! I 
> >just keep re-reading it, and a daft smile keeps creeping over my face.
> >It works every time.
> 
> What can I say, we try, we try... 
> 
> >(Or failing that, "The Collected Flames of Michael Zeleny", Vols. 
> >I - XXVIII, would keep us addicts happy.)
> 
> Be careful what you ask for.  If I ever straighten out the little
> Sparcstation at home, the 'net might just be threatened with the
> complete volumn of flames of MZ in its entire splendor.  
> 
> (uh, why do I see people hiding?)
> 
> Oh okay, okay, I'll be a good girl and...
> 
> never mind.
> 
>   --Erin
	Erin Zhu = fun person. If someone this cool finds appreciable worth in
Mickey, I'm willing to believe he's a swell guy. Now, if only that swell 
could remove itself from his head...:]P

--

"There are five billion people in the world.
 I wonder how many of them we can screw over."
				-A Skippy, a Plan, a Nalp...Ayppiksa!
				 Doesn't quite work, does it..
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Quotes, quotes, quotes
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:18:38 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson) wrote:
> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
[ about an 18th century book whose hero downs "a dipper of brandy" ]
>> What's a dipper?  Surely not what an American would call a dipper.
>> The latter, which I haven't seen since I was a child, is made of
>> metal (say aluminum) has a long handle and sits next to a barrel
>> of rain water.  It would not fit into the milieu of a gentleman.
> There is every chance they are related. Georgian Upper class boozers seem to
> have a penchant for punchbowls containing suitably watered down booze,
> with dainty cup-ettes suspended round the rim. Apart from dipping your
> saliva-laden beaker into the collective tub, some kind of ladle would
> seem obvious.  In fact I can see barly-suger twisted glass numbers with
> buxom nymphs carved therein coming to hand pretty nicely.

I don't think this is it, and I believe I've seen the item John McCarthy is
asking about in local antique shops.  They're made of copper and brass and
hold roughly the volume of a spirit glass; the handle sticks straight up,
has a hook at the top, and is a few inches long.  They tend to come in sets
holding different volumes and labelled "Whisky", "Brandy", "Port" and so
on.  What I don't know is how they were used - they're too wide to enter
the neck of a decanter, and it doesn't seem likely that the gentry ever
kept their hooch on the sideboard in an open bucket (somebody got a
collection of Hogarth or Rowlandson to check?).  I bought an extra-large
version of the same design in a flea market: it held about a quart, and was
made of internally tinned copper with a brass label saying "Cider".  That
is, almost the same as the waterbutt dippers John mentioned.  But no buxom
nymphs.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: bu016@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Zita Marie Evensen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Retrospection of My 1992 Reading
Date: 1 Jan 1993 23:59:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bu016@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Zita Marie Evensen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) says:

>
>                               Friday, the 1st of January, 1993
>
>In keeping with my shortstanding tradition here of reckoning up
>reading for the previous year, here's my list for 1992.
>As before, I count only whole volumes that I have completed in the
>year, and, as before, the total list (of 157 books this year) is
>made up of three sub-lists, each sub-list listing its books
>in chronological order of completion. The first sub-list is
>my classics ``structured reading program'' (means that I read
>in it a fixed number of pages every night), the second consists of

[ a great many lines deleted ... ]

I am impressed!
How I would love to read all these .... but love, work, and
breathing get in the way.

zita maria evensen
-- 
 ...  increase the number of variables,
      but the axioms, themselves, never change ... algebra 2
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: Good Westerns
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:56:25 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1ha270INNdai@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:

>After seeing "Unforgiven", a friend asked for some good western
>( pulp or non-pulp.. ) reccomendations. Can anyone help me out?

Well, you could always go back to the roots of the genre and check out A.
B. Guthrie, notably his novel THE BIG SKY.  Quite readable.

-- 
Patrick Nielsen Hayden      :     senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com : CIS 72701,1344 : GEnie PNH : opinions mine
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:25:51 GMT

yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot):
>>>I've had an eventful r.a.b. year.  I read some 220 books...
>>
>>Whether I'm way over that or Not Even Close depends on what counts
>>as having read a book.  Does schlock sf count?  Does rereading favorite
>>schlock (sf and other genres) count?  

>Yes of course, yes of course...

I'd say 'yes', but not 'of course' for the latter.  If I'm rereading
a book I read years ago, that's one thing.  If I read a new book and
then immediately turn to page one and reread it, some might argue that
this should count as a single slow read.  

The main problem with rereads is that it measures what you've put into
your reading, but not what you've gotten out of your reading.  So you
probably benefit more from 220 books than I do from twice as many.

>>Do children's books count?  How about graphic novels?

>...*comic books*???? You're kidding, right?

Not comic books, graphic novels.  A good graphic novel will take longer
to read than most books.  (Yes, most graphic novels are collections of
a run of comic book.)  But I agree that they shouldn't count anyhow.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@operators.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Shouting at robots
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 17:38:04 GMT

In article <JMC.93Jan2141039@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
|> I hear my 7 year old son shouting "Stop! Stop!" at his robot.  You
|> might consider shouting at a toy robot a singularly futile exercise.
 
 True, but who among us has not shouted at inanimate objects at one time
or another? I've shouted at cars, lawnmowers, math professors, stereos,
and even a cement mixer when nothing else I did seemed to get a response.
As far as I can tell none of them ever listened (except for one car which
seemed to have a knack for getting me as angry as possible before finally
giving in), but I still continue to use this method...
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
From: petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:47:58 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: jacobs.cs.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec29.020914.24464@csusac.csus.edu> yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot) writes:
>I've had an eventful r.a.b. year.  I read some 220 books, mostly

This is *incredible*!  And I only read 50 this year.  Oh well, I do
have somewhat of an excuse as I have written over 90 poems this year.
Next year I have to get busy and try to get them published.  (Yeah, I 
know, like anyone wants them.  :-) )

Marg


-- 
*************************************************************************
"Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain."- Spock in Space Seed
	Marg Petersen	petersm@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: _Dog Soldiers_ by R. Stone, a wild ride!
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:30:38 GMT

In article <BzL9xt.6Gt@wsrcc.com> alison@wsrcc.com (Alison Chaiken) writes:
>A few weeks ago someone requested names of books that could be
>described as "a wild ride," where the reader feels helplessly drawn
>into a breathless adventure.  At the time I couldn't think of anything
'Sounds like a fun game; maybe in a
few days I'll make the time to play.
>appropriate, but I think _Dog Soldiers_ fits the bill.  The plot
>concerns two ex-Marines who try to make some money selling heroin in
>the U.S. at the height of the Vietnam War.  The setting is the streets
>and backwaters of the Bay Area and L.A., and the characters are
>desperate in an intriguing way.  The book is pretty much a road story,
>but even though there's a lot of "action," the prose is beautiful, and
>there's a lot more to think about than in _Thelma and Louise_.
Are there people who have yet to receive
the gospel that Mr. Stone is our best
prose stylist?  Read all his books--but
only if you don't have to put on your
public face for a few days.  He affects
readers about the way Harlan Ellison
does, only more profoundly--'makes em
think that perhaps now *is* the time to
mix drugs and firearms and degradation,
if only to counter the d&f&d of current
society.

Incidentally, Hollywood made *Dog Soldiers*
into "Who'll Stop the Rain", with Nick Nolte,
Michael Moriarty, Tuesday Weld, and other
interesting characters.  It's not a good
movie, but, if you've read the book, you can
have a fine time going along for the ride,
and enjoying some of the individual performances.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546