From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Arabs/leftists? (was Re: Computer Science in Israel Ignored)
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:28:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.185614.9497@rs.com>, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
writes:
|>In article <1992Aug30.165318.4726@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
|>makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

|>(and before that trio-of-dickheads, Phill Hallem-Baker, Jeremy Henderson,
|>and Brendan McKay, accuse me of saying that Arab-Americans and other Arabs
|>in the US better be careful or we'll deport them, let me state that this
|>is neither my opinion nor my wish -- but let me also state that t.p.m.
|>readers ought to look at from where in the world these three are posting)

I am mystified as to why you think that my posting from Germany should be
significant. In case you didn't realize it my country had a rather major war
with Germany not so long ago. I seem to remember that the USA came in (late as
ever but they promise to be on time for the third one). I could well be posting
from the USA in the near future, or from Switzerland, I go where there is work,
not where I happen to like the Govt.

It is indeed true that the USA has a tendency to demonise citizens who belong to
a country that it is at war with. However what is significant is not the fact
that it does so but that it can simultaneously ram down the throats of the rest
of civilisation trite homilies about being the home of freedom democracy and
apple pie. If some of the "dickheads" that are so fond of praising their country
could either devote some of the time they spend praising it rectifying some of
its rather glaring deficiencies (inner city decay, poverty, government
corruption etc) or indeed finding out about some other countries in the world I
might take the apple pie bit a little more seriously. The USA was one of the
great nations in the world, then they elected Regan and Bush and between the two
of them the pilocks have mananged to trash the ecconomy, I happen to think that
rather a pity.

Anyway back to demonising, Gore Vidal makes some very telling points on this
subject in his movie hollywood. Excellent reading by the way, the guy clearly
knows how politics work. He describes how overnight the German beer cellars
serving saurkraut etc suddenly change to Austrian or Swiss cuisine. "If a
portion of the populace that comrise a fifth of the nation can be demonised so
quickly what is there that the press cannot do" (quote from memory so not
verbatim).

Actually I thought that Horen's views on the USA and accerptance were rather
different. I remember once castigating him (no castigate, not the squeeky voice
operation) for describing how he did not feel that he was a US citizen. Perhaps
it is his fear that the US may turn on the Jewish people someday. 

Personaly my own political views are such that I would find it hard to find
acceptance in the class I was born to (we are talking England here BTW, but
before you USA types get too pompous about British snobbery you should realise
that the US has it's class structure too, name one qualification of GHB for
office other than his class). Fortunately such acceptance is not what I seek.
Once you realise that those people who vociferously defend and police "correct"
ways of thinking and seek to exclude those who do not hold them are not worth
knowing life becomes much simpler. 

Basing your political views arround a fear of being called a "leftist" by some
loud mouthed yob is just not worth it. Attempted use of the term "leftist" or
"liberal" as a term of abuse just shows the desperation of the person using it,
they have no arguments. If we agree that anybody wishing to build an equal
society is to be called a "leftist" and anybody wishing to build a tolerant
society is to be called a "liberal" then we can, should and will wear these as
badges of pride.


--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish