HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rob Ingram <rji@nyquist.cs.nott.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: TECH: Good Questions needing Answers
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Communications Research Group
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:35:09 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.045352.21582@u.washington.edu>, 76130.2225@CompuServe.COM 
(John Eagan) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Jeremy Auman [slb96@cc.usu.edu] writes:
|> 
|> > (stuff del.)....Also, is there a cheap HMD out there anywhere?  The
|> >cheapest I have seen is about $1,500 dollars.  I don't have that much
|> >yet.
|> 
|> Neither do I. :-(  There is a rumored project to create a cheap HMD for
|> "home entertainment" (the Nintendo/Sega Genesis domain, I guess), being
|> worked on by Texas Instruments and AGE (the folks who turned the VPL
|> Dataglove into the Powerglove for Mattel). I haven't seen or heard much of
|> anything about this, though, since reading about it in the November 91
|> issue of CyberEdge Journal. 
|> 

Have you considered the use of shutter glasses in the meantime. Although I 
have not used any of these myself I am told that they are a reasonably cheap
and workable alternative to HMDs, which with most current technology give at
best poor quality images anyway.

                        Rob.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
|                       | Rob Ingram                                          |
|  "Hang loose kid!"    | University of Nottingham                            |
|                       | Department of Computer Science                      |
|                       | Nottingham, UK.                                     |
|_______________________|_____________________________________________________|
|                       |      "Women: Can't live with 'em, can't get them    |
|  rji@cs.nott.ac.uk    |       to dress in skimpy leather Nazi outfits"      |
|_______________________|_____________________________________________________|
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu (Dave Stampe)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: INFO: Argh...that damned POWERGLV.ZIP...
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:02:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct15.223422.22773
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


spittman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Pittman) writes:
>
>
><sigh> for seemingly a couple of months now, I've been talking about this
>POWERGLV.ZIP...you all know what it is, you all want it badly (or so my
>e-mail reflects...:)..heh...but I can't seem to deliver.

Arrghhh... I REALLY ought to do something about this.  All the stuff is
available by FTP in source-code form from sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/glove
directory.  The problem is that the glove code as published in Virtual
REality Playhouse is PAINFULLY out of date.  I had a file there that had
an interrupt-driven glove and Sega driver, but it seems to have been
lost.  Maybe I should put a new one there with gesture recognition.

Then again, if you have a 386, you should be working with REND386 anyway.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert_Grant.LAX1B@xerox.com
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: JOBS: What salaries are (and should be) in this field
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:15:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct9.231109.10760
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



Hi Bob,

I believe that there should be adequate compensation for the work
provided, however, in a startup industry this is seldom achievable -
one excellent way to compensate workers in a startup industry is to
provide shares in the company - that way when the company grows the
employees are directly rewarded. Another favourite of mine is limiting
top executives pay by linking it to the pay of the lowest paid worker
(something like Ben & Jerry's! :-)) That way nobody feels that they
are being left out and again everybody wins or loses based on the
success of the company.

If the salary of the average designer is roughly 40K then I could not
afford to join a VR company - but if the salary was linked directly to
the profitability of the company or shares were also provided then I
could possibly be persuaded differently. ;-)

Just my 2".

Robert.

RGrant.LAX1B.Xerox.com

All my own work, thoughts etc.
From: jlb31348@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Brain)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: TECH: U of I PGSI update 10-12-92
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:50:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct16.170237.6087
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


I know, the FAQ isn't up yet.  I'm working on it, also!  Anyway, I have been
told the boards will be made by Thursday, so I will see if they can deliver.
I have found out hat the HC11E2 chips I have need to have the internal EEPROm
turned off for them to work on my bigger systems.  I have an EVM, but I
do not know yet how to use it to program the HC11.  

I took out my code and worked on it FRiday night (instead of studying for the
GRE!!!).  It worlds, but it still glitches.  However, I now have an EVM board, 
so I hope to debug the code for one last time in a few weeks.  Low priority at 
the moment.  

I counted my mail!  

        141 committed buyers.
        282 pages of PGSI correspondence
        300 pages in general received folder.

Boy are the laser printers here gonna be tired.

-- 
Jim Brain, Power Glove Serial Interface Project Leader (for the summer)
brain@cs.uiuc.edu
Yes, my last name REALLY is BRAIN!
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: chadwell@utkvx1.utk.edu (Chadwell, Leonard)
Subject: Re: TECH: Single Screen HMD.
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:34:00 GMT



In article <1992Oct1.075914.6518@u.washington.edu>,
dstampe@psych.toronto.edu (Dave Stampe) writes...

>[stuff deleted]
> 
>I've yet to find a source for those Citizen monitors.  If I had one, I
>could probably figure out how to hook it to a VGA card.  But no
>sources yet...
> 

I have found definite sources.....From "Popular Photography" Oct. 1992

Cambridge Camera Exchange................Citizen M329
info:(212-675-8600)
$126.95 (doesn't say MkI or MkII)

Abe's Cameras and Electronics of Maine...Citizen M329 Mk I
info:(800-227-0400)
$119.99 Mk I
$call Mk II

MNi Photo & Supplies.....................Citizen M329 Mk II
info:(718-875-0779)
$129.95 Mk II

There are more listed.  These and the others are on Pages:
87, 93, 98, 103, 105, 111, 115, 119, 124, 131, 159, 173

On pages 124, 138, and 173 the Sony preview montitor is offered
(well not on 138, I'm not sure about it).

Smile Photo (212-967-5900)
Sony XV-M30....................$ 339.95
3" diag. TFT active matrix color LCD montior.

One of the Citizen offerings (Smile Photo) also showed a PAL version
for $154.95

These prices are quoted from "Popular Photography", and may or may not
be accurate, and not binding. (disclaimer)

Leonard Chadwell (CHADWELL@UTKVX.UTK.EDU)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: SCI: Object behavior in VR
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:56:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: unocal.1992Oct14.145652.24132
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


In article <1992Oct14.010307.6531@u.washington.edu> thinman@netcom.com (Technica
lly Sweet) writes:
>
>Dylan is a Scheme-like language designed by Apple's Cambridge
>research group as a small, very compilable, LISP-derived language
>but with objects "from the ground up".  That is, smoothly 
>integrated.  The book is free from Apple, write to
>dylan-comments@cambridge.apple.com; there will be a few
>commercially available implementations Real Soon Now.
>Dec Research did a Dylan->Scheme compiler for free,
>FTP to gatekeeper.dec.com.  

There is a discussion of Dylan with some examples in the current issue
of Dr. Dobbs Journal.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: kcreta@sedona.intel.com (Kenneth Creta)
Subject: TECH: HMDs - Need more info
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Intel Corporation, ASIC in the Desert
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:29:06 GMT



Hi guys,

        I've been reading this group for awhile and I am getting alot
out of it.  As is human nature, I want MORE. I need info, specs, on
available HMD's.  Can anyone direct me to sources for this?  I need
head-tracking, and a very fast refresh rate (video).  I'm doing some
research for a class I have and I have some very good ideas (at least
I think) and I may even try to implement it if the equipment is
available.

                                                Thanks alot,
                                                        Ken Creta
                                                        kcreta@sedona.intel.com


[MODERATOR'S NOTE: The Frequently Asked Questions file (FAQ) is in the
archives at

        milton.u.washington.edu    /public/virtual-worlds/TheRealFAQ

Start there.  Note that the archives are going through changes, however,
including porting to a new host and revision of much dated information.
In this context, day to day reports and inquiries are also valid. --
Bob Jacobson]
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: diego@minerva.st.dsi.unimi.it (Diego Montefusco)
Subject: Re: TECH: Nintendo Power-Glove: What's it do?
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:13:12 GMT



In <9210040534.AA08837@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>, on Oct 3, you wrote:

> From: bittar@dingo.imag.fr (Eric bittar (Magistere))
> Subject: TECH: Nintendo Power-Glove: What's it do?
> Date: 1 Oct 92 18:25:55 GMT
> 
> There is one point I never understood about the data-Glove,

Are you talking about NINTENDO POWER GLOVE or VPL DATAGLOVE??

> Do you really get 3-d information, or is it a new kind of Joystick ?
> Sometimes ago a saw the plans for Mac-Nintendo glove interface, and it
> only gave x and y coordinates.

(For the PowerGlove):

You get full 3D coordinates PLUS a rotation reading (along the axis
passing thru the arm, if I don't miss) PLUS finger flexions readings
(2 bits per finger, except pinky) PLUS reading of the buttons
depressed.

Diego Montefusco

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Diego Montefusco                        B E W A R E ! !
  Via Pirano, 4                        PLEASE REPLY ME TO:
  20127 Milano                    montefus@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
    ITALIA                           (not to the account
phone:  +2  27001467                 I'm e-mailing from!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: cyberoid@u.washington.edu (Bob Jacobson)
Subject: JOBS: What salaries are (and should be) in this field
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:57:26 GMT



Another person working in this field and I were discussing salaries
for working in the virtual worlds field.  He thinks that designers in
VR should net much more than the $40K plus stock and benefits I
suggested is more-than-median compensation.  My grapevine suggests
that designers are lucky to make the monthly rent, at least until the
industry grows.

Without naming names, and acknowledging that there is a world of
difference between sitting in a research laboratory occasionally
plunking at a terminal and actually working in the field, what do you
think about salaries, now and in the future?  What's a realistic
range, and who gets what for what?

Bob Jacobson
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: spdg!rwaters@uunet.UU.NET (Rolland Waters)
Subject: SCI: Object Programming Models (was Re: SCI: Object behavior in VR)
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:30:35 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.050152.22539@u.washington.edu> bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton
) writes:
> The main reason for using any kind of an interpreter is that (again
> IMHO) sending program strings from one machine to another is a better
> way to implement a protocol (the PostScript model) than just sending
> commands (the X model).

A distributed system based on this programming model would be
frightening to debug.  Even presuming there is no malice involved,
when you have any more than a small number of modules interacting you
need "firewalls" to keep bugs from travelling from place to place.
With the program string model any new code can extend/interfere with
the entire body of existing code.  The power of the PostScript model
makes it very dangerous to use in a distributed environment.  (Note
that PostScript is itself encapsulated by a send-command model.)

Most of the comments in this forum, particularly on programming
models, tend to presume a small number of interacting components (e.g.
world creator, world interpreter, interface & graphics box).  IMNSHO,
most useful VR constructions will rely on lots of users interacting
within a virtual world: training simulations, teleconferencing, and
cyberspace all presume many independent interacting parties.

For example, the HIT Lab's VEOS is most applicable to a small number
of closely associated entities.  I don't question the value of any of
these models for interface & presentation research, but I don't feel
that they are the way to go for really creating a world.


Rolland Waters
rwaters@spdg.com
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Subject: Re: SCI: Object behavior in VR
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:18:06 GMT


Thanks very much to Michael Almquist for the pointer
on getting many small interpreters for various languages.

This is an excellent way to understand a lot of languages
that I've only seen in books, and consequently don't
truly grok.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: "(Gavin Legge)" <glegge@nzls02.nzl.abk.nec.co.jp>
Subject: INFO: Can I get any VR soft-ware for my PC for free?
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:09:25 GMT


I was wondering if there are any demos or generally any type of
software for IBM PC`s out there that is free that I can try on my
computer.  I have a very general interest in VR and would be
interested to have a play with it on my home PC.  Is it possible to
try any VR without any hardware (helmet etc..) as I have none.

                Thank you in advance
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Subject: Re: TECH: PowerGlove yaw?
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: International Foundation for Internal Freedom
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:37:08 GMT


One should note at this point that yaw (rotation in the plane
of the palm) and theotherone (flexing the wrist) are not good
for the wrist, while roll (rotation on the forearm axis) is
not a problem.  I'm coming down from a wrist problem episode
and I'm quite happy without yaw.  

-- 

Lance Norskog

Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.
From: seed@joker.mil.ufl.edu (Steven Seed)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: JOBS: Salaries...
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:41:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: eng.1992Oct16.064149.10579
Organization: Machine Intelligence Lab, University of Florida
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


Exactly what kinds of job opportunities are available in the VR market ?

What types of degrees are they looking for....ex CS, EE, CSE, ME ?
Or are they looking only for programmers ?
What about artist ?
From: slb96@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: TECH: Good Questions needing Answers
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:54:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.1992Oct10.155403.59588
Organization: Utah State University
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


        I have a few questions concerning a little of everything.  If
anyone can help me with any of these questions, either send me email
or post it on sci.virtual-worlds (which is where this is! :-) ).
                                                
        I had a question concerning the Haitex X-Specs 3D.  It says
that they are for the Amiga line.  Is there anyway to get them to work
on an IBM?
        
        Also, is there a cheap HMD out there anywhere?  The cheapest I
have seen is about $1,500 dollars.  I don't have that much yet.
        
        My final question is for the Rend386.  Will it only run on a
386 computer?  I have an IBM 286 12.  Kind of old, but I am working on
upgrading.

Jeremy Auman
slb96@cc.usu.edu
[No neat signiture]
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: franko@cco.caltech.edu (Frank Filipanits)
Subject: SCI: Head position sensing: sources, ideas wanted
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:59:52 GMT



I am currently contemplating a thesis involving 3-d soundspaces for
virtual reality systems, and am interested in papers or books which
address head position sensing from an engineering standpoint.

I want to be able to build something that will sense movement of the
head and maintain a stationary soundspace.

Unpublished ideas are also welcome... laser gyroscope? Accelerometers?

Thank you.
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Frank Filipanits Jr.    B.S. EE/Music, California Institute of Technology '92
>><< Go 'canes! >><<       M.S. Music Engineering, University of Miami    '94  
franko@alumni.caltech.edu   "I ain't evil - I'm just good lookin'..." A.Cooper
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: craig@world.std.com (Craig Hubley)
Subject: PUBS: "Computerized Reality" or "Embodied Virtuality", anyone ?
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:24:28 GMT



Well,

CACM has decided not to referee its issue on the topic of computer
systems that embed or overlay their information onto the real world
(i.e. VR turned inside out) such as HUDs, etc.  The issue will appear
in July'93 (Communications of the ACM = CACM, by the way) but that is
far too long to wait to see what's out there.  How about starting a
discussion / mailing list / newsgroup on this topic ?  First we gotta
see if anyone is out there...

I already published some stuff on this so I'm on the record.
Anyone else ?  I'm interested in:

        - applications
        - software architectures to support applications
        - software architectures to support a variety of sensors
        - hardware technology (i.e. small sensors, "Walkman" computers,
                "sunglasses" size screens, etc.)
        - communications technology to support networking such devices
                (e.g. encrypted digital cellular and/or satellite links)
        - ANY PUBLISHED PAPERS on these topics
        - ANY CURRENT RESEARCH on these topics

Will gleefully summarize responses back to this group.

Thanks,
Craig Hubley
craig@world.std.com

-- 
Craig Hubley                    "Constraints are the bones of a design"
Craig Hubley & Associates       consultants in OO, C++, GUI development
craig@world.std.com - Boston          617-322-8574 (days only please)
craig@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca - Toronto  416-969-2826 (24 hours)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: SCI: Object Programming Models (was Re: SCI: Object behavior in VR)
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:59:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct16.170501.6556
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


spdg!rwaters@uunet.UU.NET (Rolland Waters):
> 
> In article <1992Oct13.050152.22539@u.washington.edu> bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendlet
on
> ) writes:
>> The main reason for using any kind of an interpreter is that (again
>> IMHO) sending program strings from one machine to another is a better
>> way to implement a protocol (the PostScript model) than just sending
>> commands (the X model).
> 
> A distributed system based on this programming model would be
> frightening to debug.  

Yep, but IMHO, no much worse than any other distributed system.

> Even presuming there is no malice involved,

I'd never presume that.

> when you have any more than a small number of modules interacting you
> need "firewalls" to keep bugs from travelling from place to place.

Yep.

I'm not thinking about letting things execute at the global level. The
idea is to have a connection based model in which each connection is
it's own environment and, as much as possible, restricting the effect
of programs to the connections environment.

> With the program string model any new code can extend/interfere with
> the entire body of existing code.

Each new connection gets it's own copy of the base environment. It can
do what it wants in this environment. But, you have to impose
restrictions on the resource usage of a connection. You can't give it
unlimited execution time. You can't give it an unlimited license to
use memory. And, you can't grant it write access to global objects or
to objects owned by other connections.

Any, and all, client server based systems are subject to attack by
antisocial clients. Ones that allow you to down load programs are also
subject to the possibility that leach systems will steal cycles by
distributing compute bound programs to other decks.

I can see ways to reduce these problems, but not to eliminate them.

                                Bob P.

-- 
Bob Pendleton             | As an engineer I hate to hear:
bobp@hal.com              |   1) You've earned an "I told you so."
Speaking only for myself. |   2) Our customers don't do that.
                   <<< Odin, after the well of Mimir. >>>
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: peter@wiesel.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Peter Burgstaller)
Subject: Re:TECH: Nintendo Power-Glove: What's it do?
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Salzburg / Austria
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:58:00 GMT



bittar@dingo.imag.fr (Eric bittar (Magistere)) writes

>There is one point I never understood about the data-Glove, 
>
>Do you really get 3-d information, or is it a new kind of Joystick ?
>
>Sometimes ago a saw the plans for Mac-Nintendo glove interface, and it
>only gave x and y coordinates.
>
>        Anybody knowing more about it ?
 

There are 2 modes of the PG. The first one is 2D (people are working
on a mouse-driver for it) and a 3D mode, where you ger REAL
3D-coordinates of the glove + the rotation in z axis + bending of 4
fingers !

--
/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
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| (peter@cosy.sbg.ac.at)| in Salzburg, Austria (Europe)             |
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Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds