HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ofer Inbar)
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:53:01 GMT

puter@no1home.nashvil.ingr.com (PuterDude) writes:
>I have never seen nor heard of an "easy and painless" divorce.

I have.  I even saw them move back together after the divorce, for a
while, for convenience's sake, until one of them found a place to move
to.  They saw each other date other people.  They're living in
different cities now, but staying friends.

Not all people fight the ones they love (or used to love).

  --  Cos (Ofer Inbar)  --  cos@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
  --  WBRS (BRiS)  --  WBRS@binah.cc.brandeis.edu  WBRS@brandeis.bitnet
  "Good literature is about Love and War."
  "Junk fiction is about Sex and Violence."
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: jgelhaus@src.honeywell.com (Jennifer Gelhaus)
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:07:21 GMT


In article <1992Aug27.200458.4922@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com
  (christine.m.dakes) writes:
>Wow, you may be in for a shock, just as I was when I was the maid of
>honor at an ex-friend's wedding, ex due to the wedding!
>I was naive, had I known all the time, expense, and aggravation involved,
>I would have declined!  Never again will I be in a wedding!
>
>I'll tell you my bad experience:
>
>The gown, hat, gloves, and shoes cost *way* more than was expected.
>(I was in college at the time, which made this worse).  I had to pay
>for all these, as expected.  I had to buy... [bunch of stuff deleted] 

(What follows is kind of long and now that I read it over again really
sounds like a sob story even though it wasn't meant to so if you're
going to be annoyed by this, hit 'n' now.)

I'm in college, too, and my boyfriend and I just moved in together in
June and we're expecting a baby in november -- the point being that
I'm not exactly rolling in dough. In fact, we have learned to sacrifice
a LOT of wants and to do without a lot of what we thought were needs.
Anyway, I promised my cousin a LONG time ago that I would be in her 
wedding and this July it happened. I didn't have to go through all the
hell you did but I still resented having to pay for what I did.

What really got to me was this: My cousin married an EXTREMELY wealthy man.
(His family started and owns a major frozen food brand that you all would
recognize but I will not name.) She got to move into a fully furnished
mansion built by his father with the finest of everything.  (Keep in mind
that I am trying to scrape by to afford renting a mobile home, school and
baby) Everything in my house is used -- and probably should be replaced but
I can't afford it. Yet I had to pay for all the typical shit and buy her
bridal shower and wedding gifts and sit there at her bridal shower watching
her get tons of stuff that she probably already has in that house and that I
would give my right arm for ... just because she's getting married. Hell, I'm
starting a new household and family and I don't get shit! I don't mean to sound
whiny so don't flame me, I just don't understand the logic behind giving her
all this stuff that she doesn't even need when I would be much better off
saving my money.

Okay, I'll shutup now. I apologize for this post, but all this talk of having
to pay for stuff for weddings got me thinking about this and really pissed
off. I just needed to get this off my chest. 



Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Wedding etiquette
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:22:59 GMT




ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
>I'm not very well-versed on Western weddings (the only ones I've
>attended were Westernized versions of Chinese weddings) and I've been
>asked to be a bridesmaid .  I need to know what is expected of me.  I
>know that I have to buy dress/hat/gloves/shoes and whatnot, but do I
>also have to give a gift to the bride?  I will, anyway, but I don't
>understand the reasoning behind this.

    Yes, you have to pay for what ever the bride decides you should 
    wear in the wedding, (no matter how ugly the dress is...) And you 
    should still buy the couple a wedding present. (Presents are NOT 
    REQUIRED..It is common curtesy) The bride should also give her 
    bridal party a small gift to thank them for taking part in her 
    wedding.


>And, on the question of presents, just a personal bias, I don't like
>this custom of registering (too impersonal, too materialistic, etc.)
>But, personal biases aside, is artwork appreciated as a gift?  (That
>is what I'm going to get them, but I just wanted opinions...  ;^) )


     My husband and I were registered, and while we did receive 
     MANY wonderful gifts, we also received a lot of duplicates...
     ie: 14 crystal bowls.

     By far the best gifts we received were either checks or gift
     certificates.  They allowed us to buy the exact item we wanted.
     Not anothers interpetation of what was on the list.

     I would not presume to buy artwork as a gift, unless the person 
     has specifically requested it.  Only because I KNOW my taste is 
     different that my friends.


     JMHO, 

     Ellon St. Croix



--
"Excuse me,George Herbert,irregular-heart-beating,read-my-lying-lipping
slipping-in-the-polls,do-nothing,deficit-raising,make-less-money than 
Millie-the-White-House-dog-last-year,Quayle-loving,sushi-puking Bush!
I don't remember inviting your ass to my show!"  Arsenio Hall.
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Subject: Re: Advice on responsibilities of Best Man
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:59:48 GMT

linda@wendy.uucp (Linda Hill) writes:
kirkpatr@alc.serum.kodak.com (Dan Kirkpatrick (x37370)) writes:
>>Could someone tell me the responsibilities of being a Best Man?
>>I know that the best man should arrange the Bachelor party, and do the 
>>toast... but anything else?  Gift other than wedding gift?  Other duties?
>
>Decorate the car!  You can be nice about this too.  Use some kind of
>paint that won't hurt the car (just do the windows) and don't bother
>with tying things to the bumper.  We ended up with some free smoked
>salmon from a roadside vendor we passed while driving to our honeymoon
>destination because he said it was bad luck to charge newlyweds!



   Just be sure to be careful with what ever you do.  Our friends, 
(yes, they are still our friends...) tied bows to the spoiler on 
my husbands Z28, which in and of themselves was not bad...it was the 
christmas bows stuck to paint that made him flip out.  That and the 
tiny little confetti starts that "Somehow" got into the defroster and
heater vents that sent him over the edge.  Considering that it was the
hottest day of the spring when we got married and the car had been
sitting in the sun all day and was about 1 million degrees inside.


Have fun, but... BE NICE!  And considerate.


Ellon

--
"Excuse me,George Herbert,irregular-heart-beating,read-my-lying-lipping
slipping-in-the-polls,do-nothing,deficit-raising,make-less-money than 
Millie-the-White-House-dog-last-year,Quayle-loving,sushi-puking Bush!
I don't remember inviting your ass to my show!"  Arsenio Hall.
Xref: sparky soc.couples:3728 soc.men:15692 soc.women:15955
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Saturday, 29 Aug 1992 16:19:03 EDT
From: K. Roper <ROPERK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.


 Ummm .... I call my biological grandfather's second wife by her first
   name (Amy), but in a third person reference she's my grandmother.
   This gives me a total of ... uhhhhh ... 9 grandparents, 6 of whom
   are deceased.

   Amy refers to me as her granddaughter, so things work out well.
   I've never met my biological grandmother on that side of the family,
   although I talked to her on the phone once.

  Rick, I'd have to say you're a grandfather :>


  Kim
Newsgroups: soc.couples,alt.romance
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Subject: NJ, NY, PA Hideaway Recommends
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 05:19:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: usa

My SO and I are looking for a getaway spot within a couple hours of
the Newark, NJ area.
 
A cottage would be ideal, though spa-suites aren't bad, either. 
Fireplaces are a big plus.
 
Among the dunes by the shore is great, but we wouldn't mind the
woods of Pennsylvania or (not too far) upstate New York, either.
 
Ideas?
 
Greg (working on getting the LD out of the LDR)
From: jordan+@pitt.edu (Kenneth D Jordan)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Pittsburgh Volleyball
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:54:08 GMT
Distribution: pa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: jordan@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

*******************************************************************************

				    OPEN VOLLEYBALL

	Location:	Gateway Junior High School (Monroeville).
			Only 15-20 minutes east of Oakland / Pittsburgh.

	Elibigility:	Both individuals and teams are welcome.
			Men, Women, or Coed.
			A great place for teams to scrimmage, or for
			individuals to get some serious court time.

	Day / time:	Thursdays, 7-10 pm.

	Starting date:	September 24, 1992

	Fee:		Only $26 for 12 weeks.  Cheap!
			(6 week registration for $15 also available --
			good for any 6 weeks during the fall session.)
			(There is a one-time-per-year fee of $5 for
			non-Monroeville residents which applies to all
			programs, including the next session.)

	Miscellaneous:	This is to be clean "power" volleyball.  Ability
			levels typically range from B through AA.  There
			are 2 courts, and the gym is fairly nice.  I'd
			describe the atmosphere as "friendly competetive".
			The program resumes with a new session in January.

	Directions:	From Pittsburgh:
			Take the Parkway (376) east to the third Monroeville
			exit, which is Route 48 North.  Turn left at the first
			light (<1/4 mile), and the entrance to GJHS's parking
			lot will be immediately on your left.  The gym is at
			the back of the school, next to the track.

			From various other places:
			Or take the Turnpike (76) to Exit 6 (Pittsburgh).
			Exit onto Business Route 22 West, and make the first
			right onto Route 48 North.  Then proceed as above.

			From elsewhere:
			Contact Nick (see below).

	More details:	Contact Nick Nystrom (nick@theory.chem.pitt.edu)
			or by phone at (412)-372-1817.

*******************************************************************************

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nick Nystrom      University of Pittsburgh      nick@theory.chem.pitt.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.couples:3725 soc.men:15668 soc.women:15947
From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Am I a grandfather? You be the judge.
Date: 29 Aug 92 08:16:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug28.164629.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov writes:
>
>I'm a step-father to (among others) a 23 year old (female) that recently
>had a baby (girl). So my question is: Am I a grandfather, step-grandfather,
>or what?  And what of my parents, are they some sorta great-grandparents?

I have two living grandmothers.  One is the stepmother of my father.
The other is the mother of my stepmother.  I couldn't love them any more
if they were related to me by blood.  After all, the only difference 
with a blood relative, IMHO, is that someone claims that there is a
biological tie.  Granted, I do have several facial features in common
with my late grandfather, but still....

I think you are what you want to be.  If you desire to just be this
baby girl's grandpa, then that's what you are.  I don't see any real
point to making a big deal about any "step" relationships, any more
than I think it's necessary for someone who is adopted to refer to
their mom as "my adoptive mother".
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Dieppe
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:11:10 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <4022@moscom.UUCP>, de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan) writes:
> I assume that your mention of the expert's ethnic group has to do with the
> irony of the situation rather than any bigotry?
> 

I assumed that also.  Why even bring it up?  === Al Sparks
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Thu, 03 Sep 92 07:48:33 CST
From:         C05705DA@WUVMD
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:         William Penn
Newsgroups:   soc.history

Looking back through history, I'm having trouble with the forgotten
century.  I know Pennsylvania was named after William Penn.  However,
where I'm running into trouble, I remember that Penn defeated the Dutch
and signed a treaty that gave him New Amsterdam, now New York City, and
New Netherlands, now New York state.  So, did he recieve Pennsylvania
charter from England after he conquered the Dutch, or was it involved in
conquest some way or another?  I seem to remember some how that all of this
also involved East and West Jersey and Deleware.  Could someone shed some
info on me please?  thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao)
Subject: Re: divide this newsgroup
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:09:02 GMT


Mr. Mutlu would have no basis for posting his articles to a
soc.history.usa, would he?
-- 
Robert Chao
Oakland, California
From: phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen Harker)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: US colonializing (Was: An open letter
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:49:25 +1000
Organization: Physics Department, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Sep2.184853.5327@island.COM>, fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
> In article <jwb.715225686@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au> jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:
>>miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
[ Some information removed ]
>>>       By the end
>>>	of the US Civil War the US had the best Army and largest Navy in the
	       ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>	world, and at any time after that could have carved out whatever
>>>	piece of China she had a desire for.  
> 
>>Your patriotism has shanghaied your statistics here. Certainly in 1865 the Union Army
>>was large and battle-hardened, but within a decade it was run right down. As for the
>>"largest Navy in the world", this is sheer fantasy. At no time during the Civil War
>>did the combined Union and Confederate navies reach the size of the French navy, much
>>less the Royal (British) Navy. In ship numbers the USN trailed the Brits until after
>>WWI. In technology, it lagged behind both Britain and Germany in the "Dreadnaught"
>>revolution in naval architecture of the early 1900s.
>>
>>>       If Japan could get terrtorial
>>>	concessions from China in the 1890s certainly the US could have as well
				      ^^^^
>>>	had she wanted them.  That she chose not to could be due to a number
>>>	of reasons, but military inability seems hard to credit.
> 
>>It was busy at the time snatching colonies off Spain: (Philipines, Cuba, ...)
> 
> With the navy you just decried in value?
 
	Given that the US civil war was in the 1860's and that he is
talking about the 1890's here I don't see the conflict.  Or don't you think
the US could have built ships after the US civil war :-)

-- 
Stephen Harker			phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University		Baloney baffles brains: Eric Frank Russell
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: siege engineering mailing list started
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:32:27 GMT


			SIEGE MAILING LIST
		   (Plan, hopes and dreams....)

	The siege mailing list is intended for the discussion of
pre-black powder methods of attack and defence of fortified positions. 
While the discussion of the downfall of the great siege engines caused
by the advent of portable, and powerful cannons, is important, I would
like this to be somewhat minimized.

	My thoughts is that this would be used to discuss the myriad of
topics applicable.

	Physics			Mechanics
	Materials		Construction
	Transportation		Terminology
	Historic evidence of use  - Manuscripts
				  - Texts
				  - Archaeological data

	Historical reconstruction
	Common myths, and misconceptions
	and so on.


	I would also like to be able to compile a database of books,
references, and data for later use.

	
	I would like to ask all who wish to participate, to try to
re-define the commonly (incorrectly) used words such as catapult and ballista.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
		Instructions for siege mailing list
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To get onto the siege mailing list, just follow these real simple
directions.... hey, I got them right!  

Send mail to :    siege-request@bransle.ucs.mun.ca
and include a single line saying:

subscribe siege <your name here>

That's it!

Then to mail to siege simply mail your articles to:
siege@bransle.ucs.mun.ca

Don't forget, "i" before "e" except after "c".  :)

The affairs of the list will be archived on the FTP site at
bransle.ucs.mun.ca. Simply FTP in, give "anonymous" as a userID
and your full address as the password.

The archive will be under
 /pub/sca/siege.current  (current for the month)
 /pub/sca/siege.<date>	 (monthly archive)

Actually, there's a whole lot of good stuff there, so you might want to
look around anyways...!

----
Sebastian/Andrew Smith
amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:06:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <16276@pitt.UUCP>, geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
> In article <11954@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Blacks served in the Confederate Army from 1862, and the Union
# #Army from 1863.  There were segregated black units from then
# 
# That's interesting.  It was my understanding that the Confederate
# Army didn't have blacks.  What is the story on this?
# 
# ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and

They were members of a New Orleans unit known as the "Native Guards"
and after the city fell, they refused to withdraw with other Confederate
units.  They were all free blacks of New Orleans.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: divide this newsgroup
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:56:41 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <BtpDED.5tx@well.sf.ca.us> rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:


+>Do you think this group could be subdivided into smaller ones,
+>for example, soc.history,usa? That way, some of these smaller
+>groups would not have all that Turkish stuff on it.

	The problem is that the person (or persons) posting the turkish
stuff will probably just cross-post it to whatever new group is created.
They are already cross-posting that stuff to around six-seven groups
some of which had questionable relivance to the subject.

	The only cure for Multuism is a kill file.
From: karlr@think.com (Karl Rotstan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: divide this newsgroup
Date: 28 Aug 1992 18:36:51 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: custard.think.com

In article <BtpDED.5tx@well.sf.ca.us> rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:
>
>Do you think this group could be subdivided into smaller ones,
>for example, soc.history,usa? That way, some of these smaller
>groups would not have all that Turkish stuff on it.
>-- 
>Robert Chao
>Oakland, California

It would be a better idea to create soc.history.according-to-mutlu, or just
plain simple soc.history.mutlu's.   Better yet would be alt.fan-mutlu, though
alt.flame-mutlu might be a more appropriate name.  It's really sad that
this newsgroup ends up attracting weirdos like Mutlu, or the folks at
Banished-CPU (did they finally get their feed yanked?), but I guess that's
what KILL files are for.  It's amazing how readable this group becomes once
you add the regexp mutlu to your kill file.

Just my 2cents worth.

BTW, I'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation of this mutlu problem
being solved anytime soon.
karl...
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Macbeth 101, please (was Re: Misconceptions...)
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:08:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Aug24.140510.16493@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, cohen@cumuli.vmsmail.ethz.ch (Mark Cohen) writes...
>In the play Macbeth is a violent and brutal murderer of his own king, Duncan.
>... 
>In reality (whatever that is) it seems that Macbeth had a long and fairly
>peaceful reign 17 years from 1040-1057. Duncan was not murdered in his sleep





Tell us more. Was Shakespeare a revisionist, or was he just retelling
the story as it was generally believed by the people of the time?
Xref: sparky soc.history:7941 soc.culture.japan:7553
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Japanese POWs in the USSR during WW2
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:32:53 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>msirbu@next6.cs.umr.edu (Mihai Sirbu) quoted this in soc.culture.romanian:
>> RFE/RL Daily Report No. 166, August 31, 1992
>> The Japanese Kyodo News Service on 29 August said that Russian
>> President Boris Yeltsin may formally apologize for the Soviet
>> seizure of 600,000 Japanese World War II prisoners of war when he
>> visits Japan in mid-September.

>So what's to apologize for?  Presumably these were the troops captured in
>Manchuria after eight years of conducting the worst genocide in history?

	Possibly the reference would be to keeping the prisoners for
	a long time (I think it was 10 years) after the war was over.
	(This is NOT a defense of Japanese actions in Manchuria, please
	note.)

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn)
Subject: Re: native american question
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:14:32 GMT

In article <ddl683-270892172422@coco2.albany.edu> ddl683@csc.albany.edu (Dreami
ng) writes:
>What was the name of the Seneca chief who became director of the Bureau of
>Indian Affairs?  I believe he had both a tribal and an anglicized name, but
>unfortunately I can't remember them.  (My faulty memory also tells me he
>held power during the Grant presidency, was associated with some scandal,
>and eventually dismissed.)
>                             Derek L.

The man's name was Ely Parker.  He was a Seneca Indian who lived in Galena, IL,
Grant's adopted home town.  He was a Colonel at Appomattox, and he wrote the 
terms for the surrender for Grant and Lee to sign.  He became a general after 
the war.

Interesting note: at Appomattox, after signing the surrender terms, Lee looked 
at Parker and said "I am glad at least one real American is here," to which 
Parker replied "We are all Americans."

PDunn
Xref: sparky soc.history:7680 soc.culture.french:6086