HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Why are PC graphics so horrible?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:40:01 GMT

vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes:
>rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>C-c-c-combatability and standards!  First, I wouldn't buy such a card
>>unless it was SVGA compatible, or would exist with my current SVGA
>>card.  I'm not giving up all the rest of the software for such a card.

>Hel-lo, wake up!  It wasn't too long ago that SVGA came out, and its
>compatible with VGA, EGA, and CGA.  Duh, how did they manage that?

Gee, I dunno, maybe you've stumbled across one of the reasons they
were so farging expensive to begin with.  Hardly a market in which
they sell like hotcakes and all the game companies are drooling to
write for it.  Your producer here can't afford to sell the board at or
below cost because they know they'll make up for it in cartridge
sales.

You also had a major player (at the time) in the PC
market, IBM, pushing VGA, EGA, and CGA.  SVGA was just a fairly minor
extension of VGA, and it took a damned long time before software
started making regular use of it, this time because another major
player was pushing: Microsoft.  You may sell a few game cards in the
short run _if_ it does something extra for Windows.


>>Second, what's the incentive to write for such a card (other than the
>>technical thrill)?  It's like writing for smaller market computer.
>>Obviously there will be some people writing for it, but you have to
>>get the big companies interested.

>You could have said the same thing when SVGA was proposed.  All it needs
>is to take off and everyone will support it.

SVGA was out almost immediately after VGA (I still remember the
Paradise ads).  It took years before it was really used, except for
one thing: picture viewing/painting programs. Then Windows.  Now it's
finally coming into general use. A few game companies have finally
started to use SVGA for a few programs, where it's applicable.
Where's your killer use for this game card to get the critical mass
built up so the game companies will start to take notice?  What can it
do, say, for Windows that cards with the S3 can't do already, and what
does that do to your cost?
-- 
I do not see the EEC as a great love affair.  It is more like nine desperate
middle-ages couples with failing marriages meeting at a Brussels hotel for a
group grope. -- Tynan
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: jmccorm@a.cs.okstate.edu (MCCORMICK JOSHUA C)
Subject: WQ game comments
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 19:46:14 GMT

I remember seeing the message here, but I didn't remember who to contact.
My only comment about the WQ game as far as the intro graphics is that when
the picture of Earth comes in from both sides of the screen, it leaves a grey
trail to the side. Your monitor's contrast probably wasn't set so where you
could pick that up, and it probably was invisible on your screen.

-- 
Josh McCormick
The views expressed here do        ### ####  ####
not represent the policy of    ### ### ##########    Fight-O-Net address:
   OSU. But they should!       ####### ### ## ###  Josh McCormick @ 1:3814/0
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer,comp.os.os2.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer
From: mattes@iema.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de (Eberhard Mattes)
Subject: Re: how to do vga mode 0x13 in os2?
Organization: IEMA, Stuttgart University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:39:46 GMT

Frank Kuan writes:

> I have been writing a graphics program that uses vga mode 0x13 (320x200x256)
> as a dos application with borland C.  [...]
> I think the way to go is to develop this as a 32 bit flat model application
> under os/2, and when it is stable, port it to a 32 bit dos extender since
> the masses use dos. 

You should get emx 0.8f (ftp-os2.nmsu.edu: pub/uploads/emx-0.8f, to be
moved to pub/os2/2.0/programming/emx-.08f; ftp.uni-stuttgart.de:
soft/os2/emx-.8f).  You can develop with emx and GCC 32-bit programs
which run both under OS/2 2.0 and DOS (DOS extended included) and it
comes with a library for 320x200x256 VGA graphics.
--
  Eberhard mattes (mattes@azu.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie)
Subject: Re: OK.. about my original copyright question.
Organization: Rockwell International
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:03:01 GMT


In article <wH1ywB2w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs-cyclic@jwt.UUCP (Ron Czarnik) writes:
> Maybe what I meant was a trademark.  What I basically don't want used is 
> the idea.  What is the difference/definition between/of a copyright and a 
> trademark?

I think what you want is a patent.  I didn't see the original article, but
if it's the idea, you are talking about a patent.  Now I'm no patent lawyer
(and I'm sure that the first 'bzzznnnnt' flame response will include that
last statement :->), but I believe the following.  First, patents have 
historically not been done in software.  Second, I think I have heard that
some software (ideas) are being patented these days.


-- 
Wade                             | "Ah, a work of fiction! (well, you didn't
wade@nb.rockwell.com             | say that, did you?)"
Me be not speaking for the Rock. |
From: plantee@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Plante Eric)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Problem with battletech
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:41:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Universite de Montreal

My problem is that I lost my documentation for battletech and I don't remember
the password in the map's room(the one with the planets);if you have the game,
email me at 'plantee@jsp.umontreal.ca'
            
                  thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Subject: Re: Why are PC graphics so horrible?
Reply-To: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 07:42:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.224342.21877@mprgate.mpr.ca> vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes:
>
>With the Super Nintendo selling for under $100 these days,
>you have to wonder why there can't be a PC graphics card with
>similar capabilities for under $100 as well.

	With the SNES, Nintendo doesn't have to make much money off the
console, because they make money off of every single cartridge sale as
well.  Not to say that a card couldn't be made for a PC, but you get
the idea...




Steven Chiang                  Order - DreamGrafix:  The ONLY 16/256/3200
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu       color paint program for the Apple IIGS.
America On_Line:  DWS Steve
Genie:  S.Chiang4              Apple IIGS Forever!
From: wisner@aiag.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Sega or SuperNintendo development
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:49:30 GMT
Reply-To: wisner@aiag.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Marlboro, MA


Does anyone know how games are developed for Super Nintendo or Sega?

Is it a closed market or can anyone obtain the appropriate documentation,
put together a development system and eventually sell their game?

Paul
--
==============================================================================
                 Paul Wisner,  wisner@aiag.enet.dec.com
         Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those
                    of Digital Equipment Corporation.

"One Alpha chip is claimed to have about the same processing power as a CRAY-1 
 which went on sale in 1976, as the Cray company's first supercomputer, at a 
 cost of $7.5 million." - Guinness Book of Records, "FASTEST CHIP"
==============================================================================
From: vcwp@doc.ic.ac.uk (Vincent Chun Wai Poon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Adventurer Games Generator.
Date: 8 Jan 1993 15:56:57 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak4.doc.ic.ac.uk
Summary: What is the best way to write an adventure games generator?

I hope I have posted this to the relevanet group. Anyway I am going to do a
project on writing an adventure game generator.

To start off with, I have the problem of deciding what features I should put in
If I include too much then I don't know if I could implement it. On the other 
hand if I only have a few then the end product will look too simple.

So I am asking if u guys have any suggestions on designing such a system or if
there are ant tools/books/existing programs/ that help with this.

One requirement I want is to do a graphical generator, rather than a text-
adventure generator as I have seen a few.

So if people who have done something like that or any ideas or comments on what
features should include in an adventure ganerator, please email
        vcwp@doc.ic.ac.uk

Thanks in advance.

Btw I would like to do it with a pc , any suggestions on a good programming 
language on the pc for this?
From: mek@acs.bu.edu (Mark Kern)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Re: OK.. about my original copyright question.
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:09:34 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1ik71uINNfld@transfer.stratus.com> det@phlan.sw.stratus.com (David Toland) writes:
>In article <106463@bu.edu> mek@acs.bu.edu (Mark Kern) writes:
>>	If you want to protect your original expression, choose copyright.
>>If you have an original invention or algorythm, use patent.  If you want
>>to protect a  name associated with your product, choose trademark. 
>
>I believe registering a trademark or submitting a patent requires
>a search.  This can be a lengthy, expensive process.  On the other

Yep, you'd need to run a search for either a trademark or a patent.  However,
I seem to recall that Compuserve operates a computerized search for trademarked
names, (not sure, may only be company names).  

Also, I may be wrong about algorythms.  They may not be patentable these days.
In addition, you cannot copyright a mere idea, only your particular expression.


Mark "Simms" Kern

-= This is not legal advice.  Consult an experienced attorney. =-
From: rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Kendall Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Re: Windows and SVGA Was:Re: Why are PC graphics so horrible?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 02:23:40 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

nak@cbnews.cb.att.com (neil.a.kirby) writes:

>>market, IBM, pushing VGA, EGA, and CGA.  SVGA was just a fairly minor
>>extension of VGA, and it took a damned long time before software
>>started making regular use of it, this time because another major
>>player was pushing: Microsoft.  You may sell a few game cards in the
>>short run _if_ it does something extra for Windows.

>BINGO!

>And now we are back to one standard to write games for.  It used to be CGA,
>then EGA, then VGA.  But there are numerous SVGA engines out there; S3,
>Mach8, Mach32, ET4000, etc.  What is that one standard?

>WINODWS.

>Code written for Windows runs on all of the SVGA engines mentioned above.
>The resolution varies from 640x480x16 (face it, nobody runs Windows
>with less by choice) to 1280x1024x256.

BONG. 

We are talking about games here - windows is not a games engine. Windows is
great for software like word processors and spreadsheets that need to have
a nice looking and reasonably responsive user interface, but it is hardly
workable if you are looking for real time graphics, especially 3d. Ever
heard of double or triple buffering in Windows? How about real time 3d,
with gouraud shading and texture mapping? 

>It's worth thinking about.

Sure is. Until Windows and other GUI systems like OS/2's PM ebrace something
like the OpenGL 3D graphics standard, I just would not even consider windows
or PM as an option for the sort of stuff that I do...

+------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Kendall Bennett                          | Internet:                     |
| RMIT Advanced Computer Graphics Centre   | kjb@citri.edu.au              |
| CITRI Building, 723 Swanston Street      | rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au    |
| Carlton Victoria 3053 AUSTRALIA.         |                               | 
+------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| CoSysop (Bossman), PC Connection Australia:               +61 3 688 0909 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: egerter@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (BARRY EGERTER)
Subject: Re: WQ game comments
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:36:40 GMT

	Regarding the posting about the World Quest game from WSP and the
grey smear in the opening:

You are dead on about the contrast. We didn't notice the extra pixels because
we have monitor blowout. Our VGA monitor is on the verge of dying, and we have
to keep contrast and brightness at full levels constantly so we can even read
text. Even at this full level we didn't see the (and still can't no matter how
hard we look) grey smear effect.

Sorry! We're just waiting for a few more cheques from shareware sales so we can
purchase a new 486 system and get a NEC Multisync 6FG (17").

What did you think about the game though? We aren't artists or musicians, but
we gave it a good try.
From: at608@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bob Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Need PC Assembly Joystick Code
Date: 7 Jan 1993 07:52:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: at608@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bob Rogers)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Could somebody please email me a snippet of code showing how to read
the PC's joystick port using a BIOS call from assembly language?

My attempts to follow the limited references I have have met with
failure.  Am I missing something, or is there a trick or "gotcha"
I don't know about?

Thanks!
-- 
Bob Rogers            Internet:  at608@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: nak@cbnews.cb.att.com (neil.a.kirby)
Subject: Re: Windows and SVGA Was: Re: Why are PC graphics so horrible?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:31:38 GMT

In article <rdippold.726349867@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>I write:
>>And now we are back to one standard to write games for.  It used to be CGA,
>>then EGA, then VGA.  But there are numerous SVGA engines out there; S3,
>>Mach8, Mach32, ET4000, etc.  What is that one standard?
>
>>WINODWS.
>
>This is because as far as Windows is concerned, all these are pretty
>similar.  You manipulate a bitmap.  Some have more colors.  Some have
>less.  Now, add the game card with true sprites, fast bitmap rotation,
>etc.  These are radical changes compared to SVGA-CGA.  What does
>Windows know of sprites other than the occasional hardware cursor?
>Can you write a game that makes enough use of the special features of
>the game card to make it especially attractive to gameplayers, yet
>still have your game run well enough on SVGA-CGA that they will want
>to buy it as well?  If yes, then you're set.

It's a multi-faceted task.  The people who make the video card know what
calls a Windows programmer can make.  It is then up to them to make the
hardware and driver software make these operations fast.  If they are
smart, they might even note in the cases where there are two different ways
of doing the same thing which one os faster,etc, in the doc.  But if the
new radical card does Windows calls faster than what is already out there,
the game designer (along with everybody else) wins.  

But the big point is that the GAME PROGRAMMER is no longer tasked with
writing video device code directly (and thus being unable to exploit SVGA).
It is the task of the video card shop to make their card and drivers run
Windows fast - a task they have a vital interest in doing well.


It's an open question if the Windows calls themselves provide the game
writer with sufficient support to make good games.
From: troye@cs.mcgill.ca (Troy ENGLISH)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: PC Mouse programming help needed
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:55:09 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

Can anyone tell me what the easiest way to do mouse programming in dos
is?

Just the basics, getting clicks and move messages. I only know of one
book that has this "Programming the microsoft mouse" unfotunately nobody
in town has this  in stock and I would like to get started now instead
of
having to wait for it to be ordered.

Thanks a lot.

troy
-- 
*****************************************************************
--Your naive idiocy makes me very angry -- Job (The Lawnmower man)
"I want to lie Shipwrecked and comatose, drinking fresh mango juice"
--Part of Themesong to Red Dwarf
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: helie@bach.udel.edu (Ray Helie)
Subject: Re: Royalties/Profits
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:39:47 GMT

colin.buckley@rose.com (colin buckley) writes:

: ... My Graphic artist wanted 50% for the basic concept and the graphic
: work.
 
: ...
: On completion of the game, when the question finally came up, I was shocked
: he want 50%, and it left me almost speechless, and I basically ended
: up agreeing to giving him 40% for ~1/2 a week worth of graphics and
: coming up with the original concept ("Batting coach hitting baseballs
: to an outfielder").  Where as I ...

: All off the above took 3 weeks (minus 3 days when I was
: sick of doing it) more than 6 hours a day, full time basically, while he's
: spending those 6 hours in school.  

Since he's your friend, you might want to try writing down all of the
things you have done, including the time it took, and show it too him.
Also write down what you know of that he did, and show him that in
comparison.  Maybe under that light, he would be more reasonable.
I'm on your side -- I don't think he should get 50%.  Under 20% seems 
more like it.

If he still doesn't agree, then tell him you will take your work, 
and redo the graphics that he did, and let him take his graphics and
try to recreate what /you/ did -- see who comes up with the better
game ... 8-)  In fact, I would imagine he won't even be able to 
create a game at all, if creating graphics is his only forte.  If
that's the case, giving him 50% when the game can still be
created without him, while the game cannot survive without you,
is obviously a scam.


Ray

*  Ray Helie         8-)                   University Of Delaware   *
*  [helie@bach.udel.edu]                   Newark, DE               *
From: rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Kendall Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Re: Windows and SVGA Was:Re: Why are PC graphics so horrible?
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:31:10 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>Kendall Bennett (rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU) wrote:
>:
>: We are talking about games here - windows is not a games engine. Windows is
>: great for software like word processors and spreadsheets that need to have
>: a nice looking and reasonably responsive user interface, but it is hardly
>: workable if you are looking for real time graphics, especially 3d.
>:

>Quite wrong.  We now have graphics accelerators for Windows -- ATI Mach32,
>S3, XGA, etc.  The beauty of it is that with Windows, we have a single high-
>level API that works on all of these.

Ahh, but for fast 3D we need high performance convex polygon scan conversion
code - none of the accelerator chips are going to provide you with this. 
Windows only has a complex polygon scan converter, which is just too slow
for real 3D - when OpenGL support comes to PC user interfaces we might
just have an option.

Basically the GUI accelerators simply speed up rectangle fill's, line 
drawing and BitBlt'ing...

>:
>: Ever heard of double or triple buffering in Windows?
>:

>Sure.  My game, Chomp, uses two offscreen buffers.  It's not synchronized
>to the display, and screen updates have to be done using blitting instead
>of hardware page-flipping, but it does use double buffering.

Hah. This is less than satifactory for 3D, especially when the bitmap are
large. An 800x600 256 color bitmap takes up about 512k of memory.
Transferring all this to the display memory takes a while, and you cannot
ensure that it will be done during a vertical retrace.

Once again, buying a GUI accelerator card is not going to solve the problem.
The GUI accelerators currently available still have to transfer the data
across the system BUS to do a memory to screen BitBlt (they are _very_
fast a moving stuff around the screen, but this is useless for this
application). Cards like the S3 based on the 8514/A move all the data
through an I/O port, or you can simply use the card like any dumb frame
buffer SVGA (like an ET4000!).

Newer cards like the XGA, and I believe the Mach 32 can do bus mastering
to move the data a whole lot faster, but unless the card is a local bus
implementation, MCA or EISA it will still be slow.

+------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Kendall Bennett                          | Internet:                     |
| RMIT Advanced Computer Graphics Centre   | kjb@citri.edu.au              |
| CITRI Building, 723 Swanston Street      | rcskb@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au    |
| Carlton Victoria 3053 AUSTRALIA.         |                               | 
+------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: geoffs@yangtze.engin.umich.edu (Geoffrey M Silverton)
Subject: Re: Plotting Pixels
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 14:01:11 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: geoffs@yangtze.engin.umich.edu


In article <725904224.0@njackn.fidonet.org>, Jacob.Hartog@f99.n121.z1.fidonet.org (Jacob Hartog) writes:
>         I'm writing a wolf-3d/Ultima Underworld type game and have encountered 
> something of a stumbling block.  My algorithms for stretching the bitmaps and
> those for finding where the images should be stretched, work fast enough, 
> butthe time necessary to plot pixels to my virtual screen alone takes too much 
> time for the game to work.  Any suggestions?

You should be able to draw the wall pixels quickly (no multiplies in the
inner loop).  The way I did it was with a video memory pointer (v) and
a bitmap vertical position done in fixed point (16 bits integer, 16 bits 
fraction).  

n16VPos (fixed point) is the vertical bitmap position and n16VStep (fixed 
point) is the vertical bitmap step (bitmap pixels per video pixel).  Log2Width
is the power of two of the width of my bitmap.  BitmapHPos is the horizontal
position in the bitmap.  My inner loop looks something like this:

for (number of screen pixels...)
  {
  *v = *(Bitmap + BitmapHPos + ((n16VPos>>16)<<Log2Width));  // copy to screen
  v += VideoScreenWidth;                                     // down on screen
  n16VPos += n16VStep;                                       // down in bitmap
  }

I couldn't think of a way of doing the ceilings and floors without two
divides in the inner loop.  Isn't too slow on my '386 though.

*** Just out of curiosity, how many people on rec.games.programmer are writing
Wolf3D-type games?

Geoff

(geoffs@engin.umich.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer
From: greg@Quotron.COM (Greg "Maddog" Knauss)
Subject: Re: OK.. about my original copyright question.
Organization: Quotron System, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:21:42 GMT

wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie) writes:

>							First, patents have 
>historically not been done in software.  Second, I think I have heard that
>some software (ideas) are being patented these days.

My company has set up a little patent office where you're supposed to send
your ideas for consideration -- routines, methods, even just a group of
keystrokes that make up a unique method of input: anything that consitutes
a process, a way of doing something.  That covers both manufacturing cars
and integer square-root code.
--
Greg Knauss (greg@quotron.com)                       "Llamas, dammit!  Llamas!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.programmer