From: kcrook@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Prince Of Amber)
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Keywords: Amber 
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:57:54 GMT

Eric writes:

>I do want to read through the Amber rules.  I am somewhat wary of very
>specific games (Chaosium put out a lot of these), since you have to
>have everyone in a group aware of the base novel(s) it is based on.
>There is an Amber game going on in a group here, but I have not joined
>because the GM lives and breathes Amber trivia, and I fear my character
>would have lots of problems if I don't know as much as he does.
 
Lives and breathes?  Guess I'm doing something right... ;-)  Come on
Eric, a good GM 'should' know the subject of his games just as well if
not better than his players in order to have a firm grasp on things.
After all, with a game like Amber, where the NPC's and the world can and
often do play an integral part of the 'story' not knowing them well is
just laziness.  It's not required that the players have this knowledge,
and in fact, several of the people in my campaign had never read Amber
previous to playing the game.  Many found it especially fun to find
things out onthings out on their own, and read the books later as a
comparison.
 
In general, my opinions of the Amber game and diceless role-playing in
general is mixed.  I've run several semi-diceless campaigns which only
involve a percentile roll to include the 'luck factor' but primarily are
GM arbitrated (rather than rule-arbitrated).  I found that the Amber's
system was 'interesting' but fairly vague in most respects.  By the
book, characters are quite literally supposed to be 'set-up' in an
antagonistic and adversarial fashion.  While this may reflect the tone of
the Amber books it 'really' isn't advantageous in a campaign setting.
It CAN be done, but it takes a lot more 'work' on everyone's part to
keep things 'together', so that it doesn't degenerate into everyone just
running solo with the GM.
 
The Amber system, if you want to call it that, just isn't there IMHO.
It's an excellent sourcebook, well-written, loaded with 'examples' in a
somewhat narrow context, and greatly expands upon the Amber universe as
a whole.  My major gripes are:  1) It isn't really Amber.  2) Many of the
rules for Powers just don't work well. 3) Advancement is left vague because
it really isn't well thought out. To expand upon these:
 
    It isn't Amber.  What I mean by this is that only a VERY strictly
    controlled game, as far as points and limits goes, can even approach
    the feel of the Amber books, and even minimally at that.  The
    of Magic (such as the Sorcery and Conjuration) does not have
    to do with Amber, per se.  While it is true that the 'red-heads'
    studied with Dworkin and learned magic, it is very unclear as to its
    power and scope.  Fiona is never seen actually casting spells or using
    items, and neither is Bleys.  In fact, the only one who 'might' be
    seen to do this is Brand and that is Advanced Pattern, at least by
    the bookUs interpretation.  The rules for Sorcery ARE weak, and can
    be made so quite easily by the GM, but if that's the case why detail
    them at all.  And didn't it seem like any magic worth having could
    only be learned by a few, extremely talented individuals (not just 
    someone with a fair to good bid in Psyche...)  The rule for Conjuration
    are FAR, FAR worse (from an Amber book perspective).  If anyone
    could go and get an item that would enable them to regenerate like a
    Troll, as is easily possible in the Amber game, why didn't those 'Elder
    Amberites' do so in the books.  Benedict ran around with a missing
    hand, and even Brand suffered near the end with a missing eye, Jurt
    had all sorts of missing parts, etc...  Not so by the Amber RPG
    rules however, a quick shadow ride and they'd be good as new!
    
    Another thing is the level at which they are putting the Amberites
    in relation to other creatures of Shadow, human's in particular.
    The rules give the impression that the Amberites were Supermen who
    could withstand any force brought to bear by human hands.  
    Corwin, highly placed in Strength and Warfare, and 1st rank in
    Endurance was, after all, hospitalized after a car wreck, and after a
    stabbing.  Granted the stabbing was done by an Amberite, but none of
    them would just shrug off things like the book seems to indicate.
    If someone is highly placed in Warfare, by the book, there is little
    if anything which can be done to them by humans.  While they were
    indeed presented as above humankind in all physical aspects, they
    were by no means the invulnerable He-Men that the book makes them
    out to be.
 
    Point distribution and advancement are another area which I believe
    to be lacking in the game as written.  The GM either has the duty to
    distribute very little points (in order to prevent the game from
    becoming non-Amber-like) or has to highly sanction the acquisition
    and usages of the Powers.  The Advanced Pattern power, which is 
    only 25 pts. (even attainable in a low powered game eventually) allows
    so many powers ONLY attributable by a legendary figure such as Brand,
    that it is ridiculous.  One of the major goals (and I'm not advocating nor
    bashing this) in role-playing games has been and will  continue to be
    advancing your character, acquiring new powers and seeing your
    character grow.  I know there are some die-hard ROLE-players out there
    jumping up and down and saying, "No, no... a character's growth has
    nothing to do with points!  It has to do with making your character more
    'real', meeting new beings, exploring new places, and increasing the
    character's social and political horizons".
    Well...  maybe.  I'm all for role-playing and I stress this in my games to
    a great extent (I don't think that dice should arbitrate the success of
    some things), however, I don't like to play in a stagnant game where the
    way I start is the way I finish either (nor do I like running those types
    of games).  The problem is, if you award points in Amber the players are
    either going to buy Stats (which is limited by the 1st rank person) OR you
    will buy Powers/Items which make the characters, as I've said, quite
    un-Amber-like.
    
    For my campaign I had to re-write the majority of the Powers just to
    make them 'palatable' and even then, after running it for 8 months I
    have seen other changes needed to keep in the Amber conception of the
    Universe.  
 
    Despite the way it may sound, I do like the Amber RPG, as a
    resource and guidebook, but as a 'system' it doesn't really work.
    In a diceless system, one either needs something fairly
    comprehensive OR basically nothing at all...  A system where the GM
    and his interpretations ARE the only system.  The Amber book is,
    IMHO, an unsatisfactory compromise between these two extremes.
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