HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henderso@netcom.com (Mark Henderson)
Subject: Re: Satan talk
Organization: Netcom
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:59:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.152953.62538@cc.usu.edu> slgwk@cc.usu.edu writes:
>John Rittenhouse,an expert on Satanism in America, will speak at Utah State
>University on January 19, 7pm. Location TBA.
>Please come to join us. You will learn a lot. It is sponsored by Campus Crusade 
>for Christ.
Better, if you want to learn about Satanism (hey not just in America)
read the FAQ, grab the Temple of Set reading list and read
some of the books there, read this newsgroup, contact your
favourite Satanic organisation...&c.

On the other hand, if you want to learn what John Rittenhouse believes
about Satanism, I suppose you might go listen to his talk.

Mark
From: pechever@sal-sun44.usc.edu (The Heckler)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Some views about satanism
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:19:44 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun44.usc.edu

In article <KK.93Jan11155100@nic.funet.fi> kk@nic.funet.fi (Kimmo Koistinen) 
drools:

>I have followed this group for few months now, and decided to post something
>about my personal views about satanism.
[drool deleted]
>   That's it. I'm looking forward to hear whether here are any other persons
>who think like me, or found these thoughts familiar. 
[cheap inverted-cross pseudo-sig deleted with gusto]

Two bits of advice:

	(a) Seek professional help.

	(b) Go talk to a real Satanist.  Drake, for example, is being
	    extremely generous by responding to your drivel with well-thought-
	    out advice.  I recommend you listen.

			Comprende, lost one?

				the heckler
-- 
Your fingers weave quick minarets      |"They robbed from the rich...and gave
Speak in secret alphabets	       |to the CRIMINALLY INSANE!" -- R&S
I light another cigarette	       |Legalize the weed NOW! CANORML
Learn to forget...                     |email: pechever@usc.edu (changing soon)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Justinian
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:12:55 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Was reading about this Roman emporer in Colin WIlson's "The Occult" last night.
Would have been a better world had he lived. It seems (according to Wilson
anyway) that xtians were looked upon in their day much the same as fundies
are today. People had different ways of dealing with assholes in that age (To 
the lions with them!).

Constantine, a Pagan at heart, made xtianity an acceptable Roman religion
sometime in the 300's. His reason had nothing to do with any faith on his part,
he made a bargain with the christian god (presumably through the mediation of
an xtian priest). If the xtian god would enable him to win a crucial battle, he
would give sanction to its religion.

Justinian, Constantine's son, was a bookish fellow who despised xtians for all
their Paulian anti-intellectuallism. He wanted to make Mithraism, a more
benign sun-cult, the official religion of Rome. Unfortunately, he tried his
hand at leading armies, was not very sucessful & died on the battlefeild 2
years into his reign. 

I cannot help but wonder what would have happened had Mithraism become the
dominant religion of the West rather than xtainity. Perhaps we would still
have many of the great works of the Greek & Roman philosophers & engineers
that were burned in Alexandria. Perhaps science could have proceeded through
the dark-ages. Perhaps the American civilizations could have been saved (or
at least their books!) & hence some semblance of an ecological balance in
South America (a mess which I lay entirely at the feet of the xtians who
dominate the culture there)

It would make an interesting exercise for a science fiction writer to cook
up a paralell world following this line of reasoning.

More on Justinian when I bring the book to my terminal (and take a course on
Mithraism next semester)

-Scott

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: nicholas@brazil.psych.purdue.edu (Jeffrey Nicholas)
Subject: Christmas as paganism
Organization: Purdue University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:02:28 GMT


I was hoping that someone out there could provide me with some historically
accurate information or verification for a thought that has been running
around in my head.  I have this idea that the birth of Christ really occurred
sometime in the Spring, and not at Christmastime as is currently assumed.
Furthermore, I think that the early christian fathers (for lack of a better
term) were so upset at the early christians for joining in Pagan rituals
occurring around the Winter solistice that they decided to start their own
holiday season for christians and acalled it christmas (birth of christ
celebration).  Anyone have any thoughts about the veracity of this claim?  
Obvious pagan artifacts abound in the christmas season:  Elves, Trees, Holiday
Cheer, Merriment, etc.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:51:17 EST
From: <WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Christmas as paganism
Distribution: usa

One reason for locating Christmas at the winter solstice is the obvious
symbolism of the solar year's death and rebirth; but the data in the two
gospels are sketchy about the time of year and what info is in Luke
contradicts Matthew and vice versa.  Luke gives some pseudo-historical
references about Herod and Quirinius, but classical historians have been
baffled since Herod died before Quirinius took over in Syria, and there's no
extra-Gospel documentation of a world-wide Roman census requiring people to
go to the cities of their their lineage.  Even most Xn scholars are agreed
that Rabbi Y was born in Nazareth and the birth narrative is a pagan
borrowing from Greek mythology.

Another reason for putting a major Xn holiday at Yuletide is that it was the
Roman Saturnalia, generally taken as an opportunity to get drunk and stay
drunk for 12 days (at least).  Xns, being generally assumed to be baby-eating
perverts by the authorities, could operate a little more openly at this time
because the police would be too intoxicated to bust them.

Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
     "He who affirms the devil, creates the Devil." --Eliphas Levi
From: vagle@hsr.no (Laban Seigemann)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: so stupid
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:00:07 GMT
Organization: Rogaland University Centre

Satanism is for people that are trying to be tough, or
weak people that beleaves everything.

			So stupid !!!!!!

-- 
 Lars Vagle.  E-mail: vagle@hsr.no  Phone: +47-4-874220
From: slgwk@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Satan talk
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:29:53 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

John Rittenhouse,an expert on Satanism in America, will speak at Utah State
University on January 19, 7pm. Location TBA.
Please come to join us. You will learn a lot. It is sponsored by Campus Crusade 
for Christ.



Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Satan talk
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:42 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan7.152953.62538@cc.usu.edu>, slgwk@cc.usu.edu writes...
>John Rittenhouse,an expert on Satanism in America, will speak at Utah State
>University on January 19, 7pm. Location TBA.
>Please come to join us. You will learn a lot. It is sponsored by Campus Crusade 
>for Christ.

You poor suckers don't even know where your money you so lovingly donate 
goes, do you?
Why the old ladies go to Las Vegas to gamble in between seminars for 
your benefit... Why you can't even do things in the name of 'good' or 
your own name...  


93
-tc
From: sanjay@moho.sdsu.edu (Sanjay Phatak)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: satanism
Date: 7 Jan 1993 19:28:00 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: moho.sdsu.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Greetings out there, just ran across your group. What is satanism? I have heard several views but nothing conclusive. Request information. Mail:sanjay@imagine.sdsu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca (Paul Wagner)
Subject: Janexx
Organization: Calgary UNIX Users' Group
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:54:49 GMT


I am wondering whether anyone on this list might be familiar
with the name "Janexx".  Recently one of my students confided
in me that she was practising what amounted to chaneling and
automatic writing.  Apparently, the spirit involved named
him/herself as Janexx.  Has anyone ever encountered this name
before? Curious.  Paul Wagner  wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca


Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Christmas as paganism
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:23:53 GMT

nicholas@brazil.psych.purdue.edu (Jeffrey Nicholas) writes:

>around in my head.  I have this idea that the birth of Christ really occurred
>sometime in the Spring, and not at Christmastime as is currently assumed.
>Furthermore, I think that the early christian fathers (for lack of a better
>term) were so upset at the early christians for joining in Pagan rituals
>occurring around the Winter solistice that they decided to start their own
>holiday season for christians and acalled it christmas (birth of christ
>celebration).  Anyone have any thoughts about the veracity of this claim?  

Yes, that is the generally accepted idea.  A holiday for Mithras, who I
think was a Sun God, was held about that time also.  Mithraism was an
important foe for beginning Christianity; it almost became the dominant
religion in the Roman Empire.

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: sosc1081@wc09.writer.yorku.ca (Neeraj Nand)
Subject: Re: Ouija board?
Organization: York University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:24:17 GMT

In article <726616829.AA00960@urchin.fidonet.org>  
Hassan@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Hassan) writes:
> I just got a Ouija board for X-mas, and was wondering if anyone here has  
had
> experience using one. I tried it with a friend but nothing came thru. Do  
I have
> to invoke anything when I use it or what? Any info would be appreciated.
> 
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Re: Satan talk
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:57:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan7.152953.62538@cc.usu.edu> slgwk@cc.usu.edu writes:
>John Rittenhouse,an expert on Satanism in America, will speak at Utah State
>University on January 19, 7pm. Location TBA.
>Please come to join us. You will learn a lot. It is sponsored by Campus Crusade 
>for Christ.

Considering the sponsor, I doubt as "we" would learn anything new. Hell, send 
me a plane ticket; I'll go & you will have a chance to reform a "real-live"
servante of ye great olde ones...

-Scott

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (SCOTT C LOCKLIN)
Subject: Re: Janexx
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:00:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan5.185449.8919@cuug.ab.ca> wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca (Paul Wagner) writes:
>
>I am wondering whether anyone on this list might be familiar
>with the name "Janexx".  Recently one of my students confided
>in me that she was practising what amounted to chaneling and
>automatic writing.  Apparently, the spirit involved named
>him/herself as Janexx.  Has anyone ever encountered this name
>before? Curious.  Paul Wagner  wagnerp@cuug.ab.ca
>
>


Not a familiar name to me. I suppose it might be found in one of the
medeaval grimoirs, but it is more likely an original name. 
This aspect of her subconscious mind _may_ be equivalent to one of the
demons listed in the old grimoirs. 
If it is in one of them, I would put my money on the Picatrix, which is
found in more college libraries than any other "grimoir" I have heard of.
Not that she is necessarily pulling your leg, but the name could have become
imbedded in her subconscious in this way...
Does tha automatic writing say anything particularly interesting? 
(You might try asking the same question on alt.magick, BTW)

-Scott
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: ferejohn@leland.Stanford.EDU (john ferejohn)
Subject: IBM guide?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 05:38:37 GMT

Howdy.  I'm essentially new to this.  Well, more accurately I observed the
beginning of this project about a year ago and haven't had an account again 
until now.  Anyhow, it seems from reading the articles here that ther is an
IBM version of the guide now available.  Could someone please repost info on
where to get it?
                                    -Chris Ferejohn

Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg)
Subject: Article Influx
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:35:53 GMT

I just thought I'd assure you that the Project is not dead...  I currently
have two articles that are awaiting an affirmation from the authors, and
I have three more (not including a few I wrote myself that are awaiting
a possible change in some of the other Guide entries) waiting to be edited.
At this rate (assuming I get confirmations from authors soon after the articles
are edited), we could have another complete archive in a month or two...

...Paul


-- 
+                +        +    +  + + +  +    +        +                +
  Paul Clegg, cleggp@aix.rpi.edu.   <I> killed God, why do you ask? 
         System One RPG designer.   Project Galactic Guide Coordinator.
+                +        +    +  + + +  +    +        +                +
From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries)
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
Subject: How did that get here?
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:40:07 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


Take no notice of the mailing headed "The Cursor Speaks Out!". I don't know how
that got here since I had sent it to a different group.

The Cursor
From: pcxkrm@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (K.R.Marshall)
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
Subject: Re: Copyright Problems -- Please Read!
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:21:54 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

In article <-a-3a-@rpi.edu> cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg) writes:
>
>But I came to a big problem.  A while ago, I wrote a message to Douglas Adams
>himself, asking for his opinion(s) on our ability to use things from his
>books in our articles.  I have yet to receive any answer from him at all.  So
>I'm faced (and thus we are all faced) with the big question:  What crosses the
>line to plagiarism and copyright infringement?
>+                +        +    +  + + +  +    +        +                +

Was this the message to alt.fan.DA ? - if so, you should perhaps do
what someone suggested, and write to his publishers (or even phone
them perhaps) - I included a few quotes in my program - should I take
them out, do you think?

I wonder if the legal thing is made any different by the fact that
this is a non-profit-making exercise, no-one is actually making money
from using these quotes. I'd have thought that we should be able to
get permission on that basis - but it might be as well to be very
careful until we actually do.

Keith.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Mummy was an asteroid, Daddy was             | Keith Marshall
a small, non-stick kitchen utensil..."        | pcxkrm@unicorn.nott.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg)
Subject: Copyright Problems -- Please Read!
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:41:46 GMT

Over the vacation I took a close, hard look at what we already have in our
archives for Project Galactic Guide.  When I returned, I received several
new articles (and wrote several myself), and I have a feeling that the
Project may actually start to accelerate a bit...  However.

REALLY soon now, I'll be posting a completely revised & updated Formatting
Guide for entries.  Not much has changed, but I did expand several of the
explanations and guidelines to specifically cover some areas that were kind
of gray before.  Watch for it!

I also went through EVERY SINGLE article that I had in my personal archives,
which I think is all of them accepted to date (or at least, accepted as of
19930101), and I wrote down notes on everything that I thought should be 
changed, removed, or added.  Many times, these notes were basically problems
in the actual text; stuff that Steve or I missed (I'm not infallible, nor do
I claim to be), and other things that I don't think anyone will mind.  For
some specific examples, I thought that it would be nice if all the articles
that were written on Earth cities were xreffed to Earth, and that their titles
all had a similar structure (ie. City, State, Country, Earth), and the removal
of really weak xrefs, and the addition of several indexes that would make
perusal of the article more pleasing to the brain.

But I came to a big problem.  A while ago, I wrote a message to Douglas Adams
himself, asking for his opinion(s) on our ability to use things from his
books in our articles.  I have yet to receive any answer from him at all.  So
I'm faced (and thus we are all faced) with the big question:  What crosses the
line to plagiarism and copyright infringement?

My personal conclusions are these:

1.  "Hoopy" is fine.
2.  "Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster" is okay, but I'd rather not have it appear
    in EVERY article
3.  Don't use quotes from Adams' book, especially if they're not necessary.
4.  Don't use names & such that he used; no references to Zaphod, Arthur, or
    whatnot.

However, on the fourth point, I'm constantly flip-flopping back and forth
about what to accept and what not to accept.  I THOUGHT I had come to the
reasonable conclusion that I wouldn't allow the use of the major names (Dent,
Beeblebrox, Prefect, etc.) but then I saw someone refer to the "Ark B
incident", or something along those lines, and I could not come to a conclusion
as to whether that's acceptible or not.

So, I'm opening the discussion to the floor.  What are your opinions?  Do
you have any lawyers that would give you legal advice on these matters?  We
REALLY need to clear this up before we go much farther...

...Paul


-- 
+                +        +    +  + + +  +    +        +                +
  Paul Clegg, cleggp@aix.rpi.edu.   <I> killed God, why do you ask? 
         System One RPG designer.   Project Galactic Guide Coordinator.
+                +        +    +  + + +  +    +        +                +
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: dms@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (David Mcgregor SQUIRE)
Subject: An X windows reader for the guide
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:23:08 GMT

Dear Guide afficionados,
						I am interested in writing a guide reader for
X windows using the Motif widget set, for unix machines. This would greatly
increase the number of people exposed to the guide, especially in academic
institutions.

My question is this:

It seems to me that it would be foolish for every author of a guide reader
to have to "reinvent the wheel". By this I mean that it m\would surely be
more sensible if a core body of source code existed around which
machine/environment specific readers could be coded. My preferred language
for such a thing would be C, but anything would be a start. This code would
accomplish such things as parsing the files of articles, coping with index
and xref searches and so on. If done carefully, only the i/o would have to
be modified in order to produce a new reader. Moreover, this should lead to
increased consistency in the behaviour of readers across different systems.

I have contacted some people via email, and some are reluctant to provide
their source code to others. This is understandable. However, The Guide! is
not a commercial venture, and the voluntary contribution of articles is
vital if it is to succeed. I suggest that the voluntary contribution of
source code is also a very good idea.

I would welcome discussion of this notion in this group, or comments via
email. If anyone is prepared to provide source code, please let me know,
and I will get to work on the X version of The Guide!

Squizz

-- 
Squizz
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: pcxkrm@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (K.R.Marshall)
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
Subject: The Atari Guide! (TAG)
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:32:35 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

I've now got a working version of the guide viewer for the Atari ST
range of computers. It should be regarded as a beta-test version -
some of it is still a bit raw! - but it works, and I'd like to test
out compatibility with different TOS versions and hardware before I
finalise anything. 

The package is based loosely on Steve Baker's PC guide, in that it
consists of two programs, one to create/update a database, and the
other to view it. The viewer is basically finished, except for some
extra features I will add as time goes by, but the update program is
very basic, and should be handled with care! (not that it will do any
damage, just that it won't recognise duplicate entries, so if you give
it the same article more than once you will have more than one copy in
the database!). It will be refined over the next few weeks - the
greater response I get, the more time I shall spend on it!

I haven't had a reply from Steve yet with regard to putting it on to
his guide archive, but I have talked with him before, and it will get
there at some point! - For now, anyone interested should email me at
the address shown below. Please help me test it out - I know it works
on a 2Mb STe with TOS 1.62 and no hard drive, but I won't know about
any other set-up until somone tries it!

Thanks,
Keith.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Mummy was an asteroid, Daddy was             | Keith Marshall
a small, non-stick kitchen utensil..."        | pcxkrm@unicorn.nott.ac.uk
From: jimb@rcx1.csd.harris.com (Jim Burmeister)
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
Subject: Re: (TMG)  ever?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:43:31 GMT
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Distribution: ssd
NNTP-Posting-Host: rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com

In article <1993Jan12.10519.28687@ms.uky.edu>, al@ms.uky.edu (Al Smith) writes:
> All this talk about TAG TWG etc. makes me gealous.  What about TMG
> The Macintosh Guide?  Is there such a thing or anyone working / willing
> to work on one?  I would, but I have NO IDEA how to do such a thing.
> So, I can't do it.  Can anyone else?

I asked about this a few months ago, and several people (including myself)
said that they would try to put a Macintosh Guide together "if they had time".
However, I suspect that the same thing happened to the other volunteers that
happened to me--I just couldn't find the time to work on it.

-Jim B.
 
Newsgroups: alt.galactic-guide
From: al@ms.uky.edu (Al Smith)
Subject: (TMG)  ever?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:05:19 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

All this talk about TAG TWG etc. makes me gealous.  What about TMG
The Macintosh Guide?  Is there such a thing or anyone working / willing
to work on one?  I would, but I have NO IDEA how to do such a thing.
So, I can't do it.  Can anyone else?

Matt Clarke
(You can call me Al   - reguards to Paul Simon)
AL@ms.uky.edu