HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: petes@sheridan.ncd.com (Peter C. Simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:46:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Mt. View, CA, USA

In article <1992Aug25.174642.1@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu>, kistler@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
> In article <1992Aug25.195238.14752@u.washington.edu>,
|> I agree that it's the spokes that flex.  Spokes with less tension can flex
|> more.  So you get a softer ride, possibly at the expense of replacing
|> spokes more often, unless they were overtensioned to start with, which is
|> usually the case on a dished wheel.
|> 

Not exactly correct. Spokes act like metal strings - they are very flexible,
and provide support only in tension, so the spokes wouldn't flex (bend)
they would stretch.  If we assume all spokes are pre-loaded enough that 
they are always under some tension, then spokes of different tension would
stretch the same amount, under a given load.  They are all operating in the
linear portion of the stress-strain curve, so a given increase in 
stress at any point on the curve will produce a constant amount of strain
(stretching).

The difference in flex will be determined by the geometry of the dishing. 
The portion of spoke tension that will resist lateral movement relative 
between the axle and the rim is the equal to the sine of the angle of the
spokes on that side frokm the plane of the rim. So, if spokes on the left side
have an angle of, say 5 degrees (30 mm offset on a 685 mm dia wheel) and the
spokes on the dished side have an angle of only 2.5 degrees (15 mm offset), 
the same lateral force would create twice as much increase in spoke tension 
(and therefore twice as much stretching) when applied from the non-dished
side as opposed to the dished side.  Note that when I push on the end of the
axle, the spokes on the OPPOSITE side are resisting this force - the
spokes on the side I am pushing on are already pushing in that direction,
and are more than happy to unload themselves as I apply my load.
The magnitude and cause of these lateral forces is not completely 
trivial to determine, but I think we all agree that they exist.

BTW, from this discourse we can see that spoke tension in the dished side
will be higher than that in the non-dished side, in proportion to the 
difference in spoke angles. 

|> The symmetry of the wheel is irrelevant, since (one would hope) your axel
|> and flanges are at least as rigid as the rest of your bike (and probably
|> a lot more considering how small they are by comparison).  I'm not
|> convinced that someone might really notice the difference in the ride,
|> however, no matter how well calibrated your butt might be.
|> 
|> Allen Kistler
|> kistler@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu


                                            simPSon

                                         Peter Simpson
                                         Product Design Manager
                                         Network Computing Devices
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Re: Hyperglide chain replacement: suggestions wanted
Organization: Lehman Brothers
	<MJOHNSTO.92Aug30201619@jenny.shearson.com>
	<1992Aug31.182746.18425@walter.bellcore.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:51:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.182746.18425@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ken Lehner) writes:
   |> I think HG chains have gotten and undeserved bad reputation.
   |> 

   Let's say you ride 4,000 miles per year, and you like to clean your chain
   and derailleurs about every 400 miles.  (Of course, you don't clean it ON
   the bike, do you?).  That's 10 new pins a year, or about the price of a
   new chain.  Unless you don't believe Shimano and reuse the pins you
   popped.

I'm not saying I don't believe Shimano. What I *am* saying is that I haven't
had a problem so far with my chain. But then, I don't pop the pin all the way
and reinserting it is a snap and I haven't had to use any replacement pins.
The Sedis ATB chain I had put on my bike was noisy, loose sounding, and shifted
poorly. For my money the HG chain is of better quality.

Does anyone know the SPECIFIC recommendations of Shimano regarding this chain?

MJ
--
Michael R. Johnston/System Administrator                mjohnsto@shearson.com  
  =-=-=  The official .signature of the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. =-=-=
From: news@netnews.upenn.edu (USENET News System)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: mavic electronic derailleurs
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:04:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep2.141647.18292@athena.mit.edu>, ttsai@athena.mit.edu
wrote:

> does anyone know anything about the new mavic electronic rear derailleur
> prototype that debuted in this year's tour de france?
> 

There is mention of it in the October issue of Bicycling. There seems to be
a problem with waterproofing the motor housing since prolonged exposure to
water causes the thing to short circuit.

Aside from that, it is lighter than a regular derailleur and, you can use
multiple switches to control shifting. One in the drops, another in the top
of the handlebar, and so on.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:13:29 GMT

In article <rrempel.714853526@sfu.ca> rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel) writes:
>davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
>>I am amazed you all missed the most important innovation of all:
>>** Biopace **
>Yup, an amazing --marketing-- invention. Despite a bit of searching back
>when the thing came out I couldn't find a single scientific article showing
>any advantage for the Biopace. It makes sense (sort of), and had nifty

I vagely remember an advertisment about the proven benefits of BioPace. But
it involved cadences of 40 or so. There were follow up studies but I do not
remember seeing conditions (cadence) given and their finds were generally
saying that any benefits were in the noise.  Another one for the Journel of
Irreproducable Results. 
  - Eric 
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.tech:30 rec.bicycles:21735
From: craig@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Braze-on Question
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:44:13 GMT
Reply-To: craig@cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

"Chad R. Vizino" (cv0q+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Could you netters comment on the difficulty/expense/caveats of having
: someone add water bottle cage braze-ons to my Fuji chrome-moly frame?  
: Is this procedure advisable (BTW I don't have any spare paint to match
: the frame)?

Its easy for somebody who has the experience.  Shouldn't take more than
30 min for a set.  Expect to lose paint - between the bosses and
extending about 1 inch above and below, all the way around the tube.
It won't hurt your frame.

Also, you might try to find some Riv-Nuts (Third Hand carries them).
These are basically Pop Rivit water bottle braze-ons.  No heat - just
drill a hole and pop in the rivit.  I don't have any experience with
these but Burley uses them on their tandems.

    Craig Durland       (503) 750-3354
    Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330
    craig@cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu (Julia Collins)
Subject: Re: VO2 max (was Re: Heart Rate Survey: Results)
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:17:41 GMT

(Thread originated in rec.bicycles...)

In article <BtK0Jt.KE3@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
>Well I generally agree with the other posts but am leery of training the AT.
>I think that it is trainable to the extend of a few percent if you are fairly
>fit to begin with but thats about all.  Given the large difference between
>people (and the fact that everyone seems to drop me without doing any signif.
>amount of training or even organized training) I am not holding my breath for
>any good training methods. But I am open to suggestions.  

I humbly suggest that you reconsider your opinion on the trainability
of the AT.  Improving your AT (or more accurately, lactate threshold)
will perhaps allow you to stay with all of those people who so casually
drop you now. It has indeed been shown to be trainable by more than
a few percent. Good training methods include longer intervals as well
as rides done at a tempo pace (i.e., at the lactate threshold HR),
and setting up your training in a (yearly) cyclical format (as an earlier 
poster suggested).

> I am only interested in anerobic power and my tests at the university 
> here show no difference between my late January fitness (after starting 
> interval training) and my mid summer power at AT.

Then again, if you're only interested in anaerobic power (you'll be able
to sprint with the best, but how you'll get to the end of the race, I'm
not sure), ignore the AT.

Julia
.................................................................
: e-mail:       jac@noaacrd.colorado.edu			:
:...............................................................:
: Given that true intellectual and emotional compatibility are  :
: at the very least difficult, if not impossible, to come by,   :
: we could always opt for the more temporal gratification of    :
: sheer physical attraction.  That wouldn't make you a shallow 	:
: person...would it? 	 		- Lyle Lovett		:
:...............................................................:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Mispostings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:31:55 GMT

les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>In response to my grumble about articles in the wrong newsgroup,
>Terry Thiel writes:
>>I don't see how you're going to be able to keep doing this Les.  There are too
>>many newsgroups and the subjects are too confusing.  It'll be a full time job
>>trying to keep all of these people "straight".
>It is clear that a number of people disagree with your view that there
>are now "too many newsgroups" or that they are "too confusing," though it
>is certainly true that the new structure *is* too complex for some minds.
>I, for one, will not miss those who are put off by this.
>In any case, it is also clear that many people do not bother reading
>the charters of newsgroups they join and instead just read them a bit
>to determine by example what sorts of things go there.  In view of
>that, in the formative stage of a newsgroup it is particularly
>important to point out any general misposting patterns.  Failing that,
>the distribution of articles might become chaotic, which would defeat
>the purpose of subdivision.
Don't be a weenie Les.  I can see that your USCF mentality is showing.
I guess people who don't like the new system (Thats alot more than you
seem to think) are just dumb right?  It's a good thing you're here to show us
all the true path.  Maybe you should amke up a USCF style rulebook for us to
follow when reading and posting.  You could institute penalities for improper
posting and failure to follow the herd,
-Terry
.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: craig@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland)
Subject: Re: Building a Bike Frame (from scratch)
Reply-To: craig@cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:45:20 GMT

Rick Radko (dsphw@bcrka427.bnr.ca) wrote:

> I am curious though, what does a tube and lug set with all the braze
> on's for bottles etc.  cost?

Road bikes:

Tange CRMO tubeset:	$75
Tange Prestige tubeset:	$110
Columbus SL:		$120
Columbus SLX:		$160
Columbus TLX:		$210
Columbus EL:		$240
Columbus MAX:		$280

Lugs: $8 (Bocoma, Tange), $14 (Columbus), $50 (Tange investment cast)
Fork crowns:  $9 (Columbus), $21 (Cinelli, Tange)
Bottom brackets: $12 (Silva), $15 (Everest)
Dropouts: $13 (Columbus), $25 (Shimano)
Brake bridge: $5
Water bottle bosses: $.20
Cable guides: $.48

    Craig Durland       (503) 750-3354
    Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330
    craig@cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: rkd@pt.com (Ray Downes)
Subject: Adapting Suntour's poor-man's STI to/with Shimano HG7 freehub
Organization: Performance Technologies, Incorporated
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:10:52 GMT

[If this subject is in the FAQ, I missed it - sorry]
I'm currently using a Shimano setup (7-speed HG freehub, 105 indexing
derailler, adapted 7-speed MTB thumb-shifter), and am contemplating
switching over to the Suntour bar-mount (poor-man's STI) shifters,
along with a comparible Suntour derailler.

The main question - I was under the impression that the rear gear
inter-spacing was the same between brands - I got this impression
because makers of third-party 7-speed freewheels claim compatibility
with all current *indexing* systems. If true, I could keep my rear
wheel. I have doubts because *I thought* I heard somewhere that Suntour
stuck with Ultra-6 spacing - maybe it's the same, I dunno.  When I
converted my bike originally to indexing I started out with the 105
indexing derailler and shifter, mated with a Ultra-6 (worked pretty
well), and applied the same upgrade to a friend's bike.

I'm extremely happy with the shifting performance of the current system
EXCEPT for the location of the (clamp-on) shifter, but am not, at this
point, interested in Shimano's STI levers, and am only partially
interested in bar-end shifters. One concern I have with Suntour's
design is how much they get in the way of hand positions - I have not
had the opportunity to see this product in person.
-- 
Ray Downes, Performance Technologies Incorporated		rkd@pt.com
315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620		  
Voice - (716) 256-0200, FAX (716) 256-0791
From: sde@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Scott Ellington)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:57:45 GMT
Organization: Space Astronomy Lab, Madison, WI


I've had fogging problems with some motorcycle goggles I use for 
bicycling in winter.  Better ventilation seems to mostly solve the
problem, though I haven't used them in warm weather.  I punched a row
of 6 mm holes along the top of the lens, and removed most of the 
foam on the edges of the frame.  That seems to work, as long as I
keep moving.

Scott Ellington
Space Science and Engineering Center
University of Wisconsin
sde@sal.wisc.edu
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: seating tires
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: tire
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:26:37 GMT

In article <-bty5-_@rpi.edu> shannt@rpi.edu writes:
>I have a problem.  I recently had the joyous opportunity to replace my
>front tire(old one died), and I attempted to install a nifty-neat-o kevlar
>bead tire(I believe made by specialized).  I stuggled valiantly for what
>seemed like hours (15 min.) to put it on and after much sweating (it was
>hot) I got it on.  To make a boring story short does anyone have any clever
>trick to seat the bead evenly; mine is currently bulging, and if I inflate
>it too much it hops off the rim. 

I believe most kevlar bead tires require hook bead rims.  It sounds like
your rims are not hook bead, so you should not use kevlar bead tires.  Even
if you get the tire seated, it may blow off while you are riding.  I'll
leave the results of that to you imagination.


Mike Iglesias                        Internet:    iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu
University of California, Irvine     BITNET:      iglesias@uci
Office of Academic Computing         uucp:        ...!ucbvax!ucivax!iglesias
Distributed Computing Support        phone:       (714) 856-6926
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tam@eel.ocgy.ubc.ca (Joe Tam)
Subject: Balancing bicycle wheels
Reply-To: tam@ocgy.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:19:01 GMT


I've noticed that when I lift the back end of my bike and crank the handles by hand so the back wheel is spinning quickly, my whole bike seems to buffet back and forth.  Obviously it's because the weight distribution of the wheel is not perfectly symmetrical about the axis.  As an experiment, I tried to balance the wheel as if it was a car wheel (i.e. add counterweight to try to even out the weight distribution).  I thought maybe that the valve of my inner tube may be the culprit so I added a counterweight




 (taped 1 or 2 valve screws) to the opposite side of the rim but this really didn't smooth out the buffeting much.

So my questions are:

	1) Has anybody successfully balanced a wheel with this procedure?
	2) Does it make a difference it terms of the quality of the ride or the life of the drivetrain?

Joseph Tam <tam@ocgy.ubc.ca>   \___ \___________
Department of Oceanography     \___ \___________
University of British Columbia \___ \___________
Vancouver, BC, Canada          \___     \___
V6T 1W5                \___    \___     \___
                       \___    \___     \___
Phone: (604) 822-3911   \_________  \__ \___ \__
Fax:   (604) 822-6091    \______    \__ \___ \__
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:54:47 GMT

In <1992Sep2.234002.16779@unlinfo.unl.edu> latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (Latenser) writes:

>crwg2707@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (R. Wagner) writes:

>>From SCUBA diving, I learned that toothpaste is good for preventing fogging.

>Note that toothpaste is also a nice abrasive.  ;-)

Clarification: non-abrasive GEL toothpaste works really
well for anti-fog coating.  Mildly abrasive traditional
toothpaste can scratch plastic, but does a good job of
scrubbing dead bugs and dried tree sap off glass lenses.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: reliability of wireless bike computers?
Keywords: bike computers
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 14:41:55 GMT

I purchased the new Paramount wireless cyclocomputer/heart monitor before it
came out (had to have Schwinn send one to the local dealer).  The first
one exhibited bad behavior; Schwinn sent me a new one.  The cyclo part of
the unit has performed flawlessly for over 2,000 miles, without adjustment.
The heart monitor part has, once or twice, shown exactly 2x my actual heart
rate, and has on two occasions picked up the transmission from a nearby
cyclist's non-Paramount heart monitor (nothing quite like looking down during
an easy ride, seeing "193" displayed, and wondering if your heart is
experiencing fibrillation).
From: joeh@ami.sps.mot.com (Joe Hollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Poorly Hung
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:09:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ami.JOEH.92Sep3100947
	<1992Sep2.154606.23537@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
Organization: none

In article <1992Sep2.154606.23537@terminator.cc.umich.edu> pauls@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:

>   Ken Lehner writes
>
>   | 1) If Davidson and my local shop argue about the blame, what can I do?
>
>   If the shop makes you an offer, they have to keep it.  It's not your  
>   problem that Davidson may argue about the warranty if your shop told you  
>   that it would be fixed for free.

It would be nice if the preceeding were true but unfortunately there
is no way that you can legally enforce someone's "offer". If you have
problems, get ahold of davidson directly. It is unlikely that davidson
will tolerate any local shop trashing their reputation.

>   | 3) Can I expect reasonably quick service from Davidson if this is their
>   | fault?
>
>   "Reasonable" can have many definitions.  Several months is probably not  
>   "unreasonable" from a manufacturer's perspective.  It is undoubtedly  
>   unreasonable to a rider.  Be prepared to wait.  (And be prepared to piss  
>   and whine about how long it's taking).

I agree. It took several months for Cannondale to repaint my frame.
I would find out from the shop if they expect you or davidson to pay
for the cost of dis/re-assembly. In my case the local shop took the
bike apart and tried to stick me with the bill for putting it back
together. 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (Latenser)
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:40:02 GMT

crwg2707@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (R. Wagner) writes:

>From SCUBA diving, I learned that toothpaste is good for preventing fogging.
>There are also a few products, available at dive shops, for this purpose.  I
>used "De-Fog" while diving and it works pretty well.  My cheap clear glasses
>were just ordered so I can't tell you if it works, but when I get them I'll
>try the De-Fog I have.

Note that toothpaste is also a nice abrasive.  ;-)

latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mitch@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Mitch Collinsworth)
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: stuck crankarms
Organization: Program of Computer Graphics, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:10:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.161227.20353@msc.cornell.edu> tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:

>At this point I gave up (I'm much
>more leery of damaging other's bikes than I am of my own) and got professional
>help (Glenn Swan, for all you VeloNews readers: he's the guy with the bunny
>strapped to his TT bike in the TdF issue.)

That's no bunny, that's AeroBear !!

-Mitch Collinsworth
 mitch@graphics.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: vic@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Glenn Dickins)
Subject: Re: Sealed cranks
Keywords: cranks bikes bicycle tech
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date:  1 Sep 92 09:24:40 GMT

chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Craig Andrew Humphrey) writes:


>---------

>Hi, I'm having a few problems with the crank on my Giant Iguana (1990 I think).
>Because of the holes in the frame (for welding) water is getting in the frame and
>running down to the crank, thinning the grease and splashing powder rust
>everywhere.

>I've been told by a friend the you can get sealed cranks (and hubs) that
>eliminate problems like this.  He recomended a crank by a German company called
>FAGG.  Apparently they last for about 2.5 years of abuse and then pack up.  But
>for approx NZ$40 (he does get a special deal), that's a small price to pay.

>Does anyone else have any experience of sealed cranks?  What recomendations can
>you make?

>I'm 6'4" and the Iguana has a 23" frame with extra long Sugino (SP?) peddle
>cranks, so the cranks take a lot of stress.  I've already bent one and snapped 
>another (peddle cranks).

>Thanks in advance.
>Craig Humphrey


>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|Craig Humphrey.     chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz        | The above opinions in no  |
>|                    HUMPHREY_C@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  | way represent those of    |
>|Victoria University Wellington,  New Zealand.      | any sane, normal person,  |


Yeah i have same problem with my cranks on my
Giant ATX760 :( its really anooying

My friend has problemn with his ATX770 like
is this a giant trademark i have to service my cranks every week
so they dont go squeak sqeuak etc and damage themselves any more
than what they are

:(
Anyway i would be interested to know if sealed cranks work

Thanx