From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: 
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:38:51 GMT

|> 
|> In article <1ej87gINNeat@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
|> Path: |> 
|> That what I indicated in my previous message.  Convincing a christian like
|> you doesn't work!
 
You keep saying a Christian like me, what is a Christian like me?. Do you and
this M.G. use the same dictionary to define people?.
 
|> 
|> 
|> How fair!  'You and millions' vs. 'I and some'.  How did you come up with this?
|> Look at the Islamic movments allover the middle east, starting from Algeria,
|> Jordan, Swdan, Palestine, Egypt, Tunisa, allover.  Many are more obvious
|> than others.  These massive populations are still called "some."
 
Yes these people think that their governments are the problem, while the 
governments in the Arabic world are no better or worse than western goverments.
Politicians in any society cannot be expected to be angels. Those governments
have inherited massive problems and having people that are unaware of the
situation is not helping at all. They are calling for political and religious
revolutions while what is needed is a social revolution.
 
I admit I do not know what is Islamic unity, can you please tell us what it
means and how will those problems be solved?. Also how does it deal with all
the major sects of Islam as well as other religions?.

Remember great nations have always been run with politicians not religious figures.
 
|> |>             
|> 
|> Shaa't are minority muslims.  The experience of Iran didn't work because it
|> didn't spread allover.  The majority of Muslims in the Arab world are not
|> pro Shaa't.  But what is worse than the Iranian experience is the Arab League
|> that you may think it will solve problems.  Everyone of them is a slave
|> to a western government.  They make zero decisions.
 
The revolution in Iran spread all over and it failed all over because the
entire country came to a grinding halt.

The Arabic League makes decisions and could have been in postion to avert that
great destruction of Iraq had Hussain listened. It is an orgaisation that came
into existance in the 40s and has not changed to keep up with the growth and
problems of the Arabic world. It will have to change its charter to be more
effective.
  
|> 
|> That is how much you understand about Islam, only its hisory of the 20th
|> and late 19th century.  How much do understand about Islam from the
|> 14th to 19th centuries?  Zip!  Even if you do you will only pick up things
|> that meet your hatred cause.  You keep talking about Ottoman Empire.  Of course
|> as a christian you will say not one thing good about it.
 
Look man, I have said it countless times on this net that Islam has many good
points. Infact Islam has somethings that are far better than Christianity.
However, Islam has come to discriminate against other religions and many people
have suffered. You seem to paint me as a Muslim hater, which I am not. I talk
this way because I do not like to see my people suffer and always humiliated.
I do not like Islamic unity, that does not mean a dislike for Muslims. I hope
you are a minority in this outlook. There are lots of people on this net who are
Muslims that I have great respect for. I have known many Muslims and never had
any of those feelings that you seem to think. However, I do not think you are
a fan of people of other faiths.

I consider you and all Muslims as my equal, however, you do not. When I defend
my country against Zionism, I am not defending the Christians, I am defending
every one and the majority are Muslims. When I argue with westerners about the
Arabic people I do not mention the Christians, I argue the case for all Arabs
and the majority are Muslims. When I point out the media bias in the west
toward the Arabic world and correct those people, I am doing it for the Arabs,
which are Christians and Muslim majority. However, in most cases the Arab
Muslims neglect the Christians and all other minorities in the Arabic world. 
 
 
I point out the Ottomans empire experience, because I feel we should never
forget what can happen to us in the future if we are not careful. Only the
Arabic people can know what is best for them, and that should not be based on
religious faith. In the majority of the Arabic countries, all Muslims were at
one time Christians who adopted that faith and we are the same people. There are
families who are split some of them are Christians and some are Muslims, my
family is that way. I am very comfortable in the faith that I follow the same
way you are and they are. The Arabic people with their various faiths are a
family that is divided and the time has come to suppress those feelings and
built an entity that uses every effort and talent so that we gain back our
pride.
          
|> 
|> If you know Islamic history, you know who were at the top of civilization
|> at those times.  Were the arab christians who were the elite in writing,
|> religions, Literature, architectures, and world scale economies thousands of
|> years ago?  It is the muslims who were.

The people that I pointed out were the Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites,
Pheonicians, Arameans, and Egyptians that date to the 3rd millinium. Those
people did not practice religions the same way as Christianity and Islam.
Furthermore, they were not Arabs at all, the Arabs of Arabia lagged them
by thousands of years. to them religion was a way to explain nature and not a
way of life and relied on every one.
 
The Muslim Arabs were also on top of the world. However, the fact is that
they were on top of the world during the Ummayad dynasty. During the Ummayads
Islam was very tolerant of all religions and did not discriminate against any
faith. Infact the Ummayad Dynasty was a political empire not a religious empire.
Under the Abbasaids, it was also similar and all people contributed equally.
The Islamic empire began to break and decline after those dynasties started
a system of mass conversion and discrimination against those who do not convert.
 
Thus we should learn from the past, Islam in its days of glory was very tolerant
and I do not like it when people talk about Islamic unity rather than Arabic
unity. Islamic unity calls for discrimination outright, Arabic unity may be more
tolerant and it should be more tolerant.
|>  
|> 
|> Yes the majority are.  Telling and repeating everything allover again is
|> just a waste of time.  It is just not worth it!  As you indicated
|> earlier "You do not have to convince me that Islam is the solution."
|> 
 
I will repeat myself again, Islamic empire reached its golden age because it was
a politically oriented empire not a religious one. Islam was used as a tool
to give every one a common goal to spread the word of God through the Qur'an.
Only a well organised political system will lead to restore the dignity of the
Arabic people. I beleive the Arabic League can do that given the proper charter.
Europe will become a very prosperous nation through the EC and it is not based
on religion. Although, they are chrsitians with different sects.
 
A.FAris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic