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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:30:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2880
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2880

                          Thursday, August 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 691

                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                          Re: Braille N Speak Compl
                               Re: jaws stuff
                                     Re:
                             Braille translators
                            Re: Lavender Braille
                           Re: NFBNET Censorship?
                               GUIDE DOG BLUES
                           Punctuation and Speech


                                ******


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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Willy.
I agree completely that the concept of a BNS portable note-taker was a
brilliant innovation, and is not the same as a notebook PC. However,
once the Blazie people scored with the original BNS they appear to have
lost the idea and are turning the thing into a substitute for a PC.
Keith suggested subtracting the cost of a floppy from the price of a
notebook to make them comparable, but I suggest adding the Blazie price
of a floppy, which I think is about $500. That means we are talking
$1800 for a BNS computer, with no hard disk. I went first class and
added a LiteTalk to our notebook, and used a copy of my existing screen
reader. I still come out $300 ahead with a superior device. While it is
not as convenient to carry around, you wouldn't find the BNS all that
convenient either if you had to take the disk drive with you. I think
Blazie should have improved the original note-taker concept instead of
changing it into a pseudo-computer. Nobody needs 640K on a note-taker,
and nobody needs to pay $895 either. Blind people are fortunate that
they can cause public funds to be spent for their own benefit, in many
cases, and the 3rd party sponsors, agencies and employers, generally
have no basis for making judgments other than the ads and the glitz. I
own and use a BNS; there are instances where there is no reasonable
substitute. But it ain't no computer, and the 640K with or without a
disk drive ain't no bargain, neither. ... Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 WS> Chuck, I am not pushing the braille n speak, but if you are
 WS> going to compare prices, let's add to the cost of that
 WS> notebook, a speech synthesizer, and te speech program, and now
 WS> how much does it cost?

Hi, Walter.
I use a LiteTalk on my notebook for $500, which is the same as what
Blazie charges for the BNS floppy drive, and I use a copy of the screen
reader I use on my desktop. The BNS 640 with a floppy comes in at $1800,
and my notebook with LiteTalk and borrowed screen reader comes at $1500
retail. The BNS is a terrific little note-taker, but for that you don't
need 640k or a disk drive, and the disk drive makes it no longer all
that convenient (unless of course you leave the disk drive home). ...
Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Braille N Speak Compl
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, Keith.
You made some terrific points with Willy on the BNS thing. However, you
shouldn't have subtracted the floppy cost from the notebook, you should
have added $500 to the BNS price, since that is what Blazie wants for
one. ... Cheers. ... Chuck.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Chuck.Hallenbeck
Internet: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: jaws stuff
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I am not going to debate you on this as you said all programs have
their strengths and weaknesses. what I have found in spending one
solid weekend 8 hours a shot playing with jaws is when I started
one of my aplications sometimes it would not say a word until I
shut smart screens off then gradually introduced things like color
bars and levels and things. but cold it would just shut up. no big
deal and I am still on the verge of buying the program if I can
master macros.  because if you can't master macros with jaws you
are dead in the water. Tandy

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Tandy.Way
Internet: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re:
From: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Jamal: I agree that the philosophies of the two organizations
differ considerably. However, what many in NFB perceive as
progressive, I perceive as militent. If that organization could
reexamine its tactics, and if ACB could become just a bit more
progressive, then, perhaps the two organizations could work
together to bring about positive results regarding issues which
truly matter, not only for the blind, but they also have
implications for other groups with disabilities. I seriously doubt
that I shall ever seen the day when the two organizations become
one. After all, as territorial as both have been, it's rather
unrealistic to expect that either would give up what they consider
their hard-earned territory. On the other hand, it seems to me
conceivable that the two just might be able to work together one
day. I certainly hope so. Thanks for the message and see you later.
Stew

... I can resist everything except temptation.
=== Via Silver Xpress V3.00

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Braille translators
From: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Stew Bowden)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Susan: perhaps I should not join in this discussion regarding
braille translators, but having just retired as a school
administrator, in a school for the blind, I used the Duxbury
braille translator for several years. Found it to be excellent. I
am not familiar with Megadots, but I cannot help but question the
efficiency of a braille translator which includes a word processor.
Seems to me there would have to be come compromises somewhere, and
usually, it is the translation that suffers. Hotdots is another
translation program by Peter Durran, but since I have not used that
program, I am not in a position to say just how good it is. Hope
you find something you like, but I would give Duxbury a very close
look. It is also speech friendly if that is a concern. Stew

... If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.
=== Via Silver Xpress V3.00

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Stew.Bowden
Internet: Stew.Bowden@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Lavender Braille
From: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org (Warren Figueiredo)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3800/6 - CompuChurch (tm) IH, Baton Rouge LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

The Lavender Braillewriter was intended to be a less expensive
alternative to the Perkins brailler. It was manufactured during the
60's and has long since bit the dust.
Warren

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3800!6!Warren.Figueiredo
Internet: Warren.Figueiredo@f6.n3800.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: NFBNET Censorship?
From: Robert.Wieland@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Wieland)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:150/140 - Black Bag BBS, Newark DE


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DA> You and others will call it sensorship.  I don't think so.  The
 DA> BBS is paid for by NFB members for our and others use.  I have
 DA> no intention to let it be used to attack us.  You all can do it
 DA> here, on some one elses dime.

David,
    I don't believe you are correct in this.  It may depend upon what
you publicly claim your BBS to be.  Unfortunately, if you represent it
as a public forum, or if you invite submissions with the clear
implication that all are welcome, without any mention of screening and
culling, you are wrong.  You have no right - in fact, you may be
forbidden by law - from deleting messages and file based on your
opinions about them.
   This whole question was addressed, for the print media, by the U S
Supreme Court in several decisions at the beginning of the nineteenth
century.  Rags calling themselves newspapers were printing lies,
half-truths, and slanders, and never reporting at all certain
important actual happenings: the slant was usually political.  When
all this would end up in court, the publishers would point to the
First Amendment, saying "Freedom of the press... we own these presses,
and the Constitution says nobody can tell us what to do with them!"
The Supreme Court ruled very differently.  They held (repeatedly) that
the First Amendment is a right of the public to be informed, not a
right of "those who own the physical implements of printing" to do as
they pleased.  To put it in one sentence, they said that freedom of
the press meant that nobody - INCLUDING the owners of the presses -
gets to decide what will and will not be published and read.
   As the media have gotten more honest, this has been largely
forgotten, but it still hangs around in places.  Ever heard an
editorial on TV?  Note at the end how they tell rebutters how to get
in touch?  They are required to make that announcement, and if anybody
does call in, they are REQUIRED to provide equal air time for the
reasonable presentations of differing opinions, for free.  Owning the
TV station does not entitle them to the last and only word.
   So we are thrown back to the status of your BBS.  If you say up
front that NFBNET is the official voice of the NFB, you may be OK.  If
you don't say that, it may be VERY not OK for you to pull down
messages and files.
   FYI, I'm a wink who has no part of the NFB/ACB thing (whatever it
is or was).  I got this matter all sorted out back in 1985- 86 when
the same sort of "censorship" showed up on a local BBS; a sysop
thought owning the computer was the same as owning the messages,
including ones that weren't addressed to him.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!150!140!Robert.Wieland
Internet: Robert.Wieland@f140.n150.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: GUIDE DOG BLUES
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 V> I am sad to report that after some contact with N.F.B., Sue Sullivan at the
 V> Social services department of Guide Dogs for The Blind and the California
 V> State Guide Dog Board as well, that dog guide legislation is not exactly as
 V> seriously applied and as functional as it seems exacting in the way that it
 V> is written.  In short, despite legislation seemingly to the contrary,
 V> landlords, if they really want, can most certainly get away with charging a
 V> pet deposit because of a dog guides presence!

Vixen, from what you quoted in thel aw, I don't believe this is
true.  Furthermore, it sounds to me like they don't want to get
involved.

 V> Kris made arrangements through triple A and they contacted two very nice
 V> hotels at the cape. Both hotels had vacancies. Sounds good, right? Well,
 V> guess what gang, as soon as they found out we were traveling with a dog
 V> guide, both hotels said "no way!"  The triple A travel representitive told
 V> each hotel manager or owner that Massachusetts law prohibits refusal of
 V> occupancy in a motel or hotel because of the presence of a dog guide. Just
 V> the same, and even though each hotel is aware of the law, one manager
 V> simply refused to discuss the matter with the triple A agent and the other
 V> manager was very polite but offered some Jive story about someone having an
 V> allergic reaction. Massachusetts law says such refusal of occupancycan cost
 V> them fines of up to three hundred dollars. On top of this, these hotels are
 V> triple A affiliated!

I have found in the past, that you don't tell them in advance that
you will have a guide dog.  You are giving them chance to turn you
down.  If you would just have gone without telling them, you
probably would have been allowed in.  If not, you might have to
draw some attention by not leaving, but you would not have given
them chance to come up with some other reason.  Since you did this,
then now you have to follow through, or this sort of thing will
continue to plague all guide dog users.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Punctuation and Speech
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DT>         I had my Accent set up this evening with pause set really high and
 DT> the speed set up to 16 to do some scanning of a book and I was surprised
 DT> that I actually understood everything very clearly even at 16 rate.  It was
 DT> great though because I was not all that interested in what I was scanning

David, I have tried to set my pause high, and I can't see any
difference in doing that, and slowing down the speed of jaws.  I
just leave my pause set at 0, and set the speed at which I want to
listen to it.  When I raise the pause, it seems to have the effect
of slowing the speech down.  So frankly I can't see what good it
does to put in a pause.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2880 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU