HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton)
Subject: Re: February's batch of new Macs
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:51:36 CST

Does anyone have a guestimate on the price of the Q800? I know, I know,
nobody has a crystal ball, but would it be reasonable to assume it to
be roughly the pricve of the current Q700?
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Eaton                    | Opinions? We're not allowed to have
UC525655@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU | opinions at Mizzou... get back to me
                              | in 2 years when I graduate... ;)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: trimper@edsi.plexus.COM (Greg Trimper)
Subject: Re: Any Experience With "Pre-Owned Electronics"?
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:43:12 GMT

My experiences with PreOwned a few years ago were pleasant, but that was
Apple ][ stuff.  I find that they are very pricey on Mac used hardware.  For
example, they sell 20Mb Miniscribes for something like $125 or $150, and
they buy them for $<=50, and you can pick up the same drives on the
used market for ~$60-$75.  How do I know?  I saw their selling price,
and I had (9) 20Mb drives, called them up, and those were the prices
given.

I have never bought or sold mac hardware to/from PreOwned, only called
for a few prices.  However, for Apple][ stuff, they were pretty much
the endallbeall.


Greg Trimper   trimper@edsi.plexus.com
From: jfw@ksr.com (John F. Woods)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Apple Crippling Systems?!?
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:59:23 EST

avery@cmn7.Stanford.EDU (Avery Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Nov21.020604.224@physc1.byu.edu>  writes:
>> I have heard the rumors that one of the new up-coming machines Apple  
>will soon
>> be releasingis a 20 MHz 040 machine, but WITHOUT the fpu on board.
>Well, let me point out that the NeXT doesn't have a FPU either, and  
>although it could benefit from a coprocessor, it does reasonably.  The  
>reason is that the 040 has half a math coprocessor built in.  It does  
>+,-,*,/, sqrt, abs, and a few others, but not the trancendentals.  On the  
>NeXT, these are simulated in software, and it doesn't seem too slow.

No, apparently Apple will be building machines around a stripped-down 68040
which lacks any floating point hardware.  Because Motorola can supply such
chips for quite a bit less (higher yields), the resulting systems should be
potentially less expensive than those developed around full 68040 cores.
From: blob@Apple.COM (Brian Bechtel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: CD ROM drivers
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:34:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:

>Does anyone know where to get software which allows access to non-Macintosh
>format CDs?  I've got Apple's CD ROM driver 4.0 installed (as well as all the
>"Foreign File Access" INITs) and a non-Apple CD ROM drive (a Sony, for use
>with our Solbourne servers).  If I connect the CD ROM to a Mac I can mount
>Macintosh format CDs just fine but can't get to High Sierra format CD ROMs
>except say, through the Norton Utilities.  Is there a "generic" CD ROM
>driver around somewhere, or am I fundamentally misunderstanding how to access
>data on "generic" CD ROMs?

To access non-HFS volumes, you need 3 things:
1) a driver for your drive
2) Foreign File Access
3) High Sierra File Access, or ISO 9660 File Access or Audio CD Access,
or Photo CD Access, or all four.

The installer that comes with the 4.0 software will put all these things
in the proper places for System 7 machines.  For System 6 machines, put
everything in the System folder.

--Brian Bechtel     blob@apple.com     "My opinion, not Apple's"
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Mike Judson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Check Book Program?
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:22:14 GMT
Reply-To: judson@watserv.ucr.edu

In article <1992Nov20.114759.22260@hemlock.cray.com> jat@teak01.cray.com (Jim  
Turnquist) writes:
> 
> Does anyone know of a good mac program to manage a checking ledger?
> I don't care whether the program is commercial or public domain.

Are you familiar with Quicken.
I prefer to just use Microsoft Excel, for I have more control over how I
want my checkbook to look.  It also saves on disks space because you don't
need another program for one specific thing.

--
"It takes a big man to cry.
but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."
				Jack Handy


judson@watserv.ucr.edu
From: terjer@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Slow Word 5.0???
Date: 18 Nov 92 08:05:28 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc
Organization: IfI, UNIT-AVH

In article <69718@cup.portal.com>, Van@cup.portal.com (Sylvan Van Jacques)
wrote:
> 
> I think the Word 5 manual says you should set memory at 2Meg if you use Sys 7
> and/or the Grammar checker.
> The Classic with Sys 7 is not going to be too fst anyway, but be sure you
> have sys7 TuneUp 1.1.1 installed, and remove things like the Crammar checker
> if you aren't using it. Also, get the Word5a patch and especially the
> new Spell and Grammar checker PIM's (plug in modules).
> 
> I have a Classic II with all the above, and I set memory for Word 5 at 1200-
> 1400K with no problem. I have removed the grammar checker (I like the new 
> spelling checker). I have the stuf mentioned above, and its tolerable, though
> not a speed demon. Sys 7 on a classic is slow. I waited till I had a faster
> machine to use Sys 7. I know a lot of people who still use Sys 6.xx for
> speed sake.   Van@cup.portal.com

And remember to turn off "Repaginate in background" choice in the
Preferences dialog!

Terje Rydland
Dept. of Informatics, UNIT, Trondheim, Norway
Internet : terjer@ifi.unit.no
AppleLink: NOR0103
Tlf : +47-7-591845
Fax : +47-7-591733
VSANNICE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Which Mac should I get?
From: VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 11:04:22 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science

My boss has agreed that I can replace my current inadequate SE
with a new model.  Recommendations would be appreciated.  My job (one
of them) is to help users at the Weizmann Institute with Mac software
(word processing, utilities, spread sheets, graphics, etc.).  I need
a machine that will give me quick response and effective multi-tasking
capabilities.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Annice
From: matsuda@linc.cis.upenn.edu (N o s t a l g i a )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Automatic file-name printing in WORD 4.0?
Keywords: WORD
Date: 22 Nov 92 13:55:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Is there anyway in MicrosoftWord 4.0 (or any applications) to insert the file
name (and the directory name) into the document in an automatic (or
semi-automatic) way?  I have to insert in the header those filenmaes for
hundreds of files ...


Thanks,


Kenjiro Matsuda
Dept. of Linguistics
619 Williams Hall
Univ. of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305
Tel.:   215-898-6046 (Office)
        215-573-2091 (Office/Fax)
        215-569-9638 (Home w/answering machine)
Email: matsuda@linc.cis.upenn.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: chh9@quads.uchicago.edu (Conrad Halling)
Subject: Re: PB 160 grey scale shadows normal?
Reply-To: chh9@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:06:51 GMT

In article <wwalker-221192165844@129.46.192.53> 
  wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker) writes:
>I recently bought a PowerBook 160, and while I find the grey scale screen
>makes for generally eye-pleasing screens, I have noticed a problem, and I'm
>wondering if something is wrong.  Any window or icon on the screen seems to
>produce a "shadow", a slightly darkened area running all the way to the top
>of the screen.  This apparent with the monitor set for 16 greys, barely
>apparent at 4 greys, and goes away when set for black & white (but so does
>all the nice shading of icons, windows, etc).  Are there any other 160
>owners out there who've seen this?  Is this normal, or do I have a hardware
>problem?  Thanks for your help.

This is normal and is due to the design of the screen.  All you can do
is adjust the brightness and contrast sliders to reduce the shadows
as much as possible.  I understand that the screen is much improved over
the PowerBook 140, which I have been told has shadows even through it runs 
only in black and white.  When I run my PowerBook 160 in black and white, 
there are no shadows.
-- 
Conrad Halling
c-halling@uchicago.edu

Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:19356 comp.sys.mac.hardware:21927
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: February's batch of new Macs
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:00:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov19.030031.15434
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

Here's a rundown of the new Macs due out on Febuary 15, 1993,
according to stuff I read in a recent MacLeak -- er, MacWeek.
Remember that all this is only rampant rumor subject to my typoes,
and may bear no semblance whatsoever to reality.

The Quadra 700, Mac IIsi, and Mac LC II will be removed from the
lineup.  In their place will come the Centris 610, Centris 650, Quadra
800, Mac LC III, and Color Classic.

+ Macintosh Centris 610: 20MHz stripped-down 68040 (no on-chip math
coprocessor, but it'll still perform 70% better than a 33MHz 030
machine), "Fat LC" case, one expansion slot that will fit either a
NuBus card or an 040 Processor Direct card, 4Mb RAM permanently on the
motherboard, two SIMM slots, up to 16-bit color on a 16" display or
8-bit color on a two-page display.

+ Macintosh Centris 650: 25MHz 68040 (same as Quadra 700), IIvx case,
one 040 Processor Direct slot, two NuBus slots (not 3 like the IIvx),
4Mb RAM permanently on the motherboard, four SIMM slots, built-in
Ethernet, same display capabilities as the Centris 610.  There will be
an upgrade available for IIvx owners to this machine.

+ Macintosh Quadra 800: 33MHz 68040, one 040 Processor Direct slot, 3
NuBus slots, built-in Ethernet, up to 16-bit color on a 16" display or
8-bit color on a 21" display.  Not as expandable as a Quadra 950, but
offers comparable performance.

+ Macintosh LC III: Identical to the LC and LC II except for a 25MHz
68030 and a 32-bit data path.

+ Color Classic: a 16MHz Classic II with color.

Apple wants to move its product line up to the 040 to stay competitive
with 486 machines, and to handle additions such as QuickTime,
QuickDraw GX, and OCE (Open Collaboration Environment).

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /  carborundorum.                                               -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Apple //e (DOS, ProDOS) programs on Mac?
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:20:34 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

sstai@ocf.berkeley.edu (Samuel S. Tai) writes:


>The program you're thinking of is called ][-in-a-Mac, published by some
>educational outfit in South Carolina.  Unfortunately, this thing is
>_ancient_, and only emulates a //e with 64K ROMs.  I don't have any more
>information on it, but I do know it's listed in the Macintosh Products
>Registry, published by McGraw-Hill.  (You can also find the Registry on
>GEnie.)  I know of no SW/PD solution otherwise.

wow... a //e with 64 ROM is ancient??  gee... my old //+ hardly have
8kb of ROM...

are you talking about RAM?  a bet a lot of Apple // software would run
on a 64KB machine.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: Stylewriter and Greyscale?
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:50:41 GMT

If you're using "GifConverter", set the resolution to "stylewriter 360
dpi".  This will print the gifs in grey.  I'm not sure how to do it on
other programs, though it should be possible, given that the
resolution is supposed to be higher than a LaserPrinter's.


In fiscal year 1991, the government agencies classified as secret a
total of 7,107,017 documents.  This marks the first time that the
total number of reported classification decisions in a year is a
palindrome.		-- 1991 Information Security Oversight Office
From: myke@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu (Michael Dautermann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: "macgifts@mac.archive.umich.edu" Re: How can I send the file to FTP site?
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc
Date: 17 Nov 1992 03:10:40 -0500
Organization: We're from the government, ma'am
Distribution: world
Expires: 12/30/92
NNTP-Posting-Host: terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu
Summary: your one address that does it all...
Keywords: mac, archive, sumex, archive, sites, galore

In article <1992Nov17.042158.19455@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> victor@ucme.Berkeley.EDU (Victor Wang) writes:

>   As the title says, how can I send a file to FTP site?  Any information
>please email to me.  Thanks!!!

If you submit it to "macgifts@mac.archive.umich.edu" (via a binhexed e-mail
message), it will be exploded (well, mail exploded, not literally exploded)
to Sumex, U-Kentucky's site, U-Texas, U-Mich, and a bunch of other international
sites).
  
You can also ftp a copy into our incoming directory (that's "mac/incoming")
at "mac.archive.umich.edu".


hope that helps (I'll e-mail a copy of this note to Andy too )



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
myke@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu = usermyke@umichum.bitnet = myke@umich.edu
mike@mac.archive.umich.edu = MISTER archive
Michael Dautermann - U-M Ann Arbor, Dearborn and, soon.. the world!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: February's batch of new Macs
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:17:06 GMT

mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
>bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> Apple wants to move its product line up to the 040 to stay competitive
>> with 486 machines, and to handle additions such as QuickTime,
>> QuickDraw GX, and OCE (Open Collaboration Environment).
>
>So all these extra goodies I've been told I'll be able to get if I upgrade to
>System 7.1 won't actually work on my machine anyway, even if I do upgrade?

They will probably work, but not as speedily as they would if you were
to run them on an 040 machine.  QuickTime, in particular, still even
works under System 6.

>Macintosh System 7.1 -- just say no.  If I'd wanted to pay $50 for OS upgrades
>I'd have bought an IBM.

You'd rather have Apple cover the cost of system software development
by increasing the prices of their hardware accordingly?  If the most
important factor in your choice of operating systems is price, then I
heartily recommend CP/M; you can still download Digital CP/M 3.1 files
for free from some BBS's, I've heard.

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /  carborundorum.                                               -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.comm
From: mctague@sju.edu (Brendan McTague)
Subject: Re: HQX files
Organization: St. Joseph's University - Philadelphia, PA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:19:54 GMT

alan@pacdata.com () writes:
> Not sure exactly what to do with these ".hqx" file extensions.
> If there is an archiver or something on FTP could someone point me in
> the right direction?

Use DeHex and Extractor ... both support drag and drop under system 7.x.
and both are available on the net!

Brendan


-- 
  _   /|      It's all fun and games until someone loses and eye ... 
  \'o.O'  
  =(___)=  Brendan McTague, Office of Network Services & Academic Computing 
     U       St. Joseph's University, Philadelphia, PA  (mctague@sju.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: maynard@leah.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley)
Subject: Password protection for Syquest cartridges...
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:46:46 GMT

Does anyone know of a way to get password protection for Syquest
cartridges?
My Syquest drive came with APS PowerTools, which claims to be able to
password protect a partition on a cartridge, but the software doesn't
work.
Problem 1 (Minor) The user-interface for mounting a passworded cartridge
is
  clumsy.
Problem 2 (Major) Once you've password protected a cartridge, you CANNOT
eject it. The eject button on the drive simply doesn't work. This, of
course, makes the whole scheme useless---if I didn't want to swap
cartridges, why would I buy a Syquest drive?

Does anyone know of decent formatters that get this right? Silverlining?
Are there other things available that aren't SCSI formatters but allow one
to password protect ejectable media?

Thanks,
Maynard
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:30:55 IST
From: Noam G. Nudelman <P88038@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: DeskWrite C problem


Hi,

  A freind is using an LC (4/40) with system 6.0.7.

  When she prints to her DeskWrites C (both B&W and color),
the Lines and letters don't come out smooth.

  Any idea ?



              Thanx in adv.

                                       Noam G. Nudelman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    |\/\/\/|
  Noam G. Nudelman           Bitnet:    p88038@barilvm           |      |
  Computer Center            Internet:  noam@erez.cc.biu.ac.il   | (o)(o)
  Bar-Ilan University        Telephone: 972-3-531-8627           |    __)
  Ramat-Gan, Israel 52900    Fax:       972-3-344-446            | ,___|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    |   /
Picard: "Sometimes, Number One, you just have to...bow to the absurd".
                                  -- "Up The Long Ladder", Stardate 42
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: psybeast@dracut.keps.com (Andy Seymour)
Subject: Re: Any Experience With "Pre-Owned Electronics"?
Originator: psybeast@dracut
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:20:48 GMT

In article <1ebnuaINN7lf@pollux.usc.edu> suhler@pollux.usc.edu (Paul Suhler) writes:
> I'm considering buying a $329 reconditioned Syquest 44MB drive from
> Pre-Owned Electronics, in Masschusetts.  They give a 90-day warranty,
> but I'm not sure that the risk is worth saving $70.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with them?

I have had dealling with them on several occations. They have been
friendly and helpful. Pre-Owed also happens to be just down the street
from my office.

Also I have thought of them for replacing a 800k floppy drive, but I never
seem to come up with the money!!

As for saving the money... The $70... The only drive that I know for under
$400 is from Spin Inc [(800) 466-1200] also in Massachusetts... and I also
happen to own one!!

Spin's sister company, Spirit, makes some of MacWarehouses PowerUser
equipment, namely the SyQuest drives...

In most cases, the only real difference between SyQuest drives is the
software, and to get a little bit more picky, the way they do their caching.

There are not many things that one can recondition on a SyQuest... a power
supply... the drive mech... some wires... ect...

Things that you should look for is the service.
What happens after that 90 day period???? 
Who will service it???? 
And the big one... Who will help if one can not read data off of a disk??

For the money, the Spin hardware is the best value by FAR!! In all cases,
it is the same internal mechs as everyone else!! SyQuest, Quantum,
Toshiba, NEC, ect... Spin is just not as big!

 Hope that helps to cloud the issue!! ;-)

PsyBeast

-- 
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
||||||||||||||||||||    Where to find the PsyBeast   |||||||||||||||||||||
  AOL: PsyBeast           psybeast@world.std.com         CIS: 74620,2744
#########################~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#########################
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: steve@intellection.com (Steve Martin)
Subject: Re: Duo 230 que to someone who has one
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:21:14 GMT

eIn article <97702@netnews.upenn.edu> farber@linc.cis.upenn.edu (David Farber) writes:

    Can someone tell me what level the battery indicator shows on a fully charged 230.
   Mine is 2/3 and the Mybattery app shows a voltage of 6.43. Is that normal
   for a docked 230 or a separate 230 charged up

 Plugged in, mine charges up to 6.6 and then settles to around 6.46.
After unpluggin the charger, it starts its descent from around 6.4.
The Mybattery app does not appear to reflect the "percentage charged"
accurately on the Duo.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: d e v e l o p
From: wgentry@netlink.cts.com (William Gentry)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:55:01 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

marcus@westminster.ac.uk (Marcus Harvey) writes:

> I am a  d e v e l o p  subscriber (through work) and I've been expecting
> the November issue for some time now. I'm worried that something has gone
> wrong with my subscription as I got a 'change of address' slip sent to
> me for no apparent reason a while back (I ignored it).
> 
> Have other UK  d e v e l o p  subscribers received anything after 'Hack
> to the Future' ?
> 
> Marcus Harvey, University of Westminster IRS
> JANET: marcus@uk.ac.westminster
> INTERNET: marcus%westminster.ac.uk@ukacrl
> 
>                                                           ...Bubble Up!

I'm told they ship the issue towards the end of the month. I'm a US 
subscriber and haven't seen my issue yet.


--                    
INTERNET:  wgentry@netlink.cts.com (William Gentry)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!wgentry
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jfreem@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman)
Subject: Quantum Pro 210 (jumpers and/or formatting)
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 13:42:58 GMT

I have a Quantum 210S that works fine on two different brands
of workstations.  But, I can't seem to get it to work on 
a Mac.  

Problem 1)	
	I get a sense error on the drive when I run SCSI
Tools against it.  Does this mean that a jumper is set
wrong?

Problem 2)
	The apple HD program does not have a listing for
a drive that large (200 mb).  Who supplies either a
driver or format template for this drive?

You can reply by email , unless this is a general interest question.


Thanks,

-- 
Joe Freeman	jfreem@uncecs.edu
		jfreeman@next.com (NeXT Mail)
The opinions espressed here are my own and are not shared by my employer  or
anyone else I know of.  Flames can be mailed to me or routed to /dev/null.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:19201 comp.sys.mac.comm:10978