HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)
Subject: Re: You posted something preposterous!!!
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:17:30 GMT

On Apr 14, 11:49am, Chris Pearce wrote:
> > The Solar System is going to change from geocentric to heliocentric
> > because a bunch of people on the Earth are no longer so egotistical as
> > to consider the Earth to be the absolute center of the universe.
> 
> Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Exactly! This is the breakthrough you need to make,
> Sean!!! Why is it a problem?? 

Because, during the same period of history, I can point to at least a dozen
_different_ cosmologies that were believed by different cultures. When
the Copernican cosmology replaced Aristotelian cosmology, that didn't
change how the Inca viewed the universe, nor did it affect the Zulu,
the Inuit, the Japanese, the Chinese, or any other culture that had no
cultural interaction with the Greeks. Whose belief rules, Chris? Does
the Songs of the Australian aborigines change because some group of
people thousands of miles away change their minds?

You're not going to get any uniformity in worldview unless you have a
single culture on a world, and without the technology to support that
culture, it's going to inevitably break up into divergent cultures,
each with their own worldview.

-- 
random sig #1:
Sean Malloy                                  | A child of five could understand
Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | this.
San Diego, CA 92152-6800                     | Fetch me a child of five.
malloy@nprdc.navy.mil                        |
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: INTRO: What is Torg?
Date: 6 Apr 92 04:23:10 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <1992Apr5.073927.5291@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> jogle@nrao.edu writes:
>Did the Intro file look OK to everyone?  There seemed to be some problems
>with its appearance on my  (new) newsserver, but it is window based and 
>seems to have some problems with margins and formatting (the header is
>supposed to be centered but doesn't look it on my newsserver).
>

Looks fine to me.  Thanks for reposting this.  I hope this answers the
question of the newbie that posted a few days ago.  It's a fun game, as any-
one here can tell you.  Try it out.

>---
>Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, Torg guru)
>jogle@nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
>"I'd be apathetic if I cared."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:58:04 GMT

>
>   You're dodging the question -- unless you believe that a Tech axiom of
>   7 also _must_ create a deity named Lanala to explain why a given
>   object does or doesn't work.
>
>   But isn't the existence (or lack thereof) a function of the Spiritual
>   axiom? It sounds like you've fallen victim to the "Any Tech 7 cosm is
>   the Living Land" mindset and fallacy.

no NO NO, you missed the point. the phrase "in the eyes of Lanala"
might have been misleading [this is all my interpretation] it might
have been better said "in the eyes of the physics involved" or
somesuch. Lanala isn't involved, but since in LL, Lanala IS the
physics involved.....

>
>   -- 
>   random sig #89:
>   Sean Malloy                                  | Sleep? Isn't that just a
>   Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | completely inadequate substitute
>   San Diego, CA 92152-6800                     | for caffeine? 
>   malloy@nprdc.navy.mil                        | 

G
--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Computer scientist do it backwards -- [Mathmatician's point of view]






Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Subject: Re: Axiom mania!
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:38:23 GMT

malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy) writes:

>"People get so used to looking at the universe in terms of little
>labelled boxes that they believe that, when you change the labels, the
>universe is different. When you change the labels, you don't change
>the universe; you simply change the way you look at it."

  You mean there's actually something in the boxes?!! :-)
  [Couldn't resist.]

BTW, I think it raising an axiom level is similar to the process of
protecting a populous before pulling up a stelae.  First you have to
make a glory roll in something, then you've got to spread the story
around alot.  Then you go for raising the Axiom level.  (About the
time that the first boxes are shipped to the stores.)


--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: marcogan@student.anu.edu.au
Subject: Re: trick shots
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:34:57 GMT

Michael Gersten writes:
>
>2. One level may be used to bank a shot off a convinient object
>	(Subject to what nearby objects can bank the attack)

The consequence of this rule is that any moderately competent marksman (+1
or +2 adds) can make shot which are, in reality, staggeringly difficult.
Anybody with training ca, under this rule, accurately richocet bullets of
appropriate surfaces with only a minimal effet on accuracy. I have never
heard of anyone ever doing this sort of a stunt with a real gun; Michael's
rule allows really skilled people to bounce things off three or four
surfaces. 

The rule in the Hero system was intede to apply (a) to superheroes in
comic-book situations, and (b) to people using the Energy Blast power. By
generalising it to 'ranged attack skill levels', they created the same
danger

(as far as I can tell the rule is only in there so that CHAMPIONS can
accurately simulate the kinds of things Cyclops of the X-Men occasionally
does with his optic blasts)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who speak, do not know   	       	Mark Cogan
 Those who know, do not speak"  	       	marcogan@student.anu.edu.au

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: Psionics and Magic
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 02:29:50 GMT

bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow) writes:

>whoah, I have a BIG PROBLEM (tm) with set axiom levels... I have a
>feeling that this is oh, about 4 months late, but anyway...

>If axiom levels are a pre-set ceiling. then what are the CE say, tech
>axiom. [sorry for the grammer] I mean, if there is a glass cieling for
>tech for each cosm, then what is CEs. Why do we have any reason to
>believe that the tech that we are at now is the highest we can be? we
>have been progresing in tech pretty much steadily since the middle
>ages. So, why is what we are at now the top?? why isn't 28 the top? or
>24? who can know??? 


>that adventure] so, therefore there is nothing that is keeping us from
>continuing to progress. albiet, because Torg is Logarithmic, the axiom
>is progressing ever more slowly, and we just recently got to this

Well, Brian, your outlook is a bit too inflexible.

CE's tech axiom is 23 *at this moment*, average.  Meaning, if, at this moment 
in time, you looked out across CE at the highest tech "instances," these would
average tech 23.

Certainly, there are tech 24 and perhaps tech 25 high-tech science researches
being carried on in bunkers funded by the Shop, but the technology produced in
these bunkers is unreliable or unstable.

In Torg terms, that is, these CE tech 24 thingamabobs that we *can* create (if
we're lucky) often cause the scientists/beta-testers to disconnect (4-case).

But, as people come to accept that things like laser rifles can exist and work,
the CE axiom will creep upwards.  Furthermore, evidence points to "stress" on
a technology-inclined cosm will promote the cosm's tech axiom as the 
inhabitants seek to relieve the stress through technology.

Therefore, it is not unlikely that CE will quickly increase its tech level to
24.  In fact, with all the current outside influences, and CE's natural
flexibility, I imagine within a year, Infiniverse will announce some major
shifts in CE axioms (notably Tech and Spiritual).








-- 
Clay W. Luther                  cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
System Manager                  Center for Network Neuroscience
University of North Texas       PO Box 5218 Denton, Texas 76203
817/565-3896,3472               aka. Malraux@GodNet (Bushashuru!)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: boyes@forty2.enet.dec.com (Mark Boyes)
Subject: Re: Pure/Mixed/Dominant Zone Question (New GM asking)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 10:45:06 GMT


In article <1992Apr8.121327.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes...
>I haven't figured this out yet.  Is Core Earth mostly a pure zone?  If so, does
>that mean that characters from different cosms are going to have a heck of a
>lot of trouble in Core Earth?

Core Earth is mostly dominant due to the high level of possibility energy
it contains. I have never seen that in the rules but it seems to be the c
consensus here. It *does* say in the rules that Core Earth has a lot of 
possibility energy (in fact thats the premise for the whole game) and that
dominant zones contain more than pure... hard points like central Paris
are the only Pure Core Earth zones: does anyone have any idea what that is
supposed to feel like? Perhaps that is the ambiance of Paris: it is more
'real' than anywhere else on Earth!

> 
>Also, in a Living Land-Core Earth mixed zone, would casting high-axiom magic
> spells be very difficult? 

As difficult as in a dominant Core Earth zone: you get the highest of the
two axioms in a mixed zone.

> 
>jan berends
> 
>jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu

Mark Boyes,   | Psychological Profile: Cpt. Hawkeye Pierce meets Binky Rabbit
Basement Flat | Kinsey Rating: Nobody knows I'm straight.   | You can dance or
28 Walton St. | Preferred Mail: boyes@com.dec.enet.forty2   | you can sit and
Oxford, UK    | Phone Day: (0734) 206708 Night (0865) 53868 | stare at the floor
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: ssmoogen@jupiter.nmt.edu (Stephen Smoogen)
Subject: trick shots
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 18:57:49 GMT


Albert replies to someone (oops forgot again) :who replies to Oakes
 ? 
 ? > 2. One level may be used to bank a shot off a convinient object
 ? > 	(Subject to what nearby objects can bank the attack)
 ? 
 ? 	Oo, I don't like that.  That means your average Nile
 ? Shocktrooper can his someone using a ricochet. (they have
 ? a couple of adds, so could theoretically hit someone with
 ? multiple banks).  If some had super-skill in Fire combat
 ? then I might allow a ricochet or two, or if they 
 ? took a huge minus.  
 ? 
 ? 	I kind of like the idea of trading adds for damage tho.
 ? (of course, vital blows do the same sort of thing)

I think instead of using fire combat to do this we use the cosm
related FASTDRAW skil, since the use of really weird richochets
and such is more cosm oriented than anywhere else. Sure Robocop
does it once or twice, but that looks more like using a power push
table for difficulty than the Lone Ranger and Trigger :) riding
horseback shooting the gun out of a villians hand by bouncing it
off of the barber's sign and then the villians henchman's canteen.

the Smooge

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE)
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 04:36:44 GMT

My comments about newbie players are because the most experienced player I have
has played in *one* Torg adventure...
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Subject: Re: Axioms
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:17:50 GMT

>random sig #106:
>Sean Malloy                                  |           THINK
>Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | If you are already thinking,
>San Diego, CA 92152-6800                     | please disregard this message
>malloy@nprdc.navy.mil                        | 

Damnit, I don't want to think.  That's why I'm reading news!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Pim <RICK@QUCDNEE.bitnet>
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:08:00 GMT

> are malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)

>The energy that a bow delivers is the result of the bowstave's
>resistance to being bent. If, under the axioms of the Living Land, a
>bowstave, regardless of its construction, will store no more energy
>than a short self bow, then _any_ tree limb in the Living Land will be
>unable to support the weight of a grown human, regardless of its size.

    not at all. a tree limb is alive; as such it can support some given
load based on whatever physics happen to work in the living land.
your desired bowstave is dead; all bets are off. ESPECIALLY in the
living land.

rp
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@wilma.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: axioms, etc.
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
	<1992Apr9.221230.19215@muddcs.claremont.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:01:20 GMT


>   In article <gatemail1.0b971548227801@morticia> Peter A. Schott <pact_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> writes:
>   >	You can flame me if you wish, but please keep it short and to the point.
>   I have found that flames on this newsgroup are extremely few and
far between.

NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!


sorry, please ignore that, i just get a little silly when dealing with
meta-flames/ second order flames, etc...
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
>   tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
>   tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Sorry.  No .sig today.
--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Computer scientist do it backwards -- [Mathmatician's point of view]






Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: The Torg Arms Race
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:57:52 GMT

	A couple of cents worth:  if you've got a bunch of 
good gamers in the group, they will take arm themselves 
appropriately for the cosm, and then _DUMP_ the stuff 
when they leave.  (Case in point, the Nile Gunsliger 
wore IriMesh and carried an bigger gun in the Cyberpapacy,
but abandoned them when he left.  It's a nice counterpoint
to the Aysle witch who picks up wierd science and power
broadswords, then gets suprised when she disconnects.
<Bog forbid they go to Tharkhold.>

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
Thank you all for coming, I'll spend your money foolishly.-J.Buffett
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters again...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:41:46 GMT

> Well, right after I send out the message, I check the rule book and find the
> answer to my question. Unfortunately, I don't like the answer I see; causes a
> contradiction in *every* cosm other than Orrosish? C'mon, that makes being a
> shapeshifter almost worthless. The only realm/cosm you can use it in is the one
> where the heroic feel of Torg is tossed out the window and characters are
> supposed to die...

	Geez, you sound like some of my players.  You disconnect on 5% of
the time when you change form.  (Though I suppose that the resistance to
non-silver weapons is like armor, and is a passive contradiction, but
usually, weres don't stay in their other form too long, so only really
mean GM's will make them walking contradictions.)

	It's nowhere near as bad as a character having cyberware, where
they become walking contradictions (except in Cyberpapacy, Tharkhold, 
and Akasha).  Werewolves only contradict some of the time.

	And shapeshifters aren't worthless by a long shot.  If it weren't
for a magic sword and a reality storm, our werewolf would be the most 
powerful charcter in our group, IMHO.   The resistance to normal
weapons is a _POWERFUL_ ability.  (Heck, they could survive Tharkhold
without wearing armor plating, something impossible for most characters.)

	Werewolves in Tharkhold is a really scary concept, IMHO.  The
Laws of Pain and Ferocity would make them real monsters, until someone finally
got them to "Heel!" and the Law of Dominance knocked off their bonuses.

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
Thank you all for coming, I'll spend your money foolishly.-J.Buffett
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Chris Pearce <cpearce@morticia.cnns.unt.edu>
Subject: Test
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:57:51 GMT

Is the list alive?
-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
--
  "We live in an imperfect world, Baldric... If we lived in a perfect world,
   things like this wouldn't happen." (whacks Baldric on the back of the 
   head).
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Chris Pearce <cpearce@morticia.cnns.unt.edu>
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:35:33 GMT

> If your going to
> make it hit and miss, why bother with them?

Because it makes it *fun*. 

Player: [hacking on an Osaka XE] 12. Hmm -- is a 12 enough?
        Should I spend a Possibility on this? If I do, will I regret it later?
        I might. No, I don't spend a Possibility.

GM: Missed it by one.

Player: Damn.

-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
--
   "My Lord, I have a cunning plan."
       - Baldric, several times, BA3 / BA4
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: one last stab at Tharkold
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:47:29 GMT


i really hate to stir the waters on this one,
but mr rose has given me something to think about,
and i would like to share it with the list.

in private correspondance, mr rose brought up a "history of pain"
including the Mohicans (and other AmInd tribes) who are said to 
have horribly torured to death those who SURRENDERED to them,
the tendincies of the mongols for torture, and the fact that
the romans made a public attraction out of it.

now, given the current LoPain, do you see any reason for 
Tharkoldu to be interested in PAIN (note caps) over just
hitting someone hard enough to do a wound?
(or any pain NOT related to combat?)

please, i would like any explination
(and again, sorry for bringing it up AGAIN)

dave "why bother with a Pain Garden for a lousy roll again" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hudson@dragon.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Subject: shapeshifters
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:58:20 GMT

==> On Mon, 13 Apr 92, Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu> said:

  RJ> 	According to the Orrorsh Sourcebook, shapeshifting is
  RJ> supported only by Orrorsh, like pulp powers are supported only
  RJ> Nile Axioms.

I would think that it would be supported anywhere with a Magic Axiom
of 12 or higher (the lower limit on when highly magical being can
exist).  Aren't there werewolves in Aysle?

--
Kevin Hudson				Xriva Uhqfba
hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: Temple of Rek Stalek?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 23:26:23 GMT

cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther) writes:
>albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones) writes:
>
>>	Ks. Jim posted a review of it, but since it's a Living Land
>>adventure, and for all the discussion about the LL that's gone on
>>recently, it's not a popular cosm at all.  
>
>I don't recall this review.

Well, I'm pretty sure I wrote a review for it...would have been back
in late February or early March I think.  I'll dig through my archives
and repost what I find....

-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, Torg guru)
jogle@nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."

Organization: Freshman, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:10:05 -0400 
From: Michael P Collins <mc7f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: A can of worms to detonate

I'll regret this tomorrow, but anyway...

Doesn't the Ayslish Law Of Observation make Quantomechanical systems
contradictory in Aysle?
--Evil Incarnate
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: decompressing archives
From: jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:09:02 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

I hope no one will mind if I ask this.  I understand how to get archives of
Torg stuff, but I do not know how to decompress them ( or whatever you call
it).  If someone would be kind enough, i would be most thankful for a lesson.

-jan berends


jberends@wesleyan.bitnet
jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg