HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)
Subject: Re: Unorthodox treatments are *not* the problem  (was: ... name right!)
Organization: Strawman Incorporated
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:39:40 GMT

In article <17e4s2INN732@cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:

>I cannot remember, in this newsgroup, *any* post being labelled
>as quackery *because* it discussed non-orthodox treatment.  What
>gets posts labelled as quackery is the silly theories that are
>used to discuss the non-orthodox treatments.  This distinction
>is crucial.  Consider the two example posts, below. 

Then you have a poor memory. It happens all the time on this newsgroup.
Of course, the poster always claims that its non-scientific nonsense,
but that's just a convenient way of avoiding the issue.

>Example post A: 
>
>   I have noticed that in both the ancient Chinese and Indian
>   traditions, the herb X is used to treat digestive disorders and
>   hepatitus.  Does anyone know of any substance in this herb that
>   might be useful?  Has this herb been investigated beyond these
>   ancient traditions?
>
>Example post B:
>
>   The herb X calms the liver when it is angry, and invigorates 
>   the spleen, which is crucial to digestion.
>
>Note that both posts discuss the same treatment.  The first would
>raise no eyebrows.  The second is, in the light of scientific
>knowledge, a bunch of hooey, and those in this newsgroup who know
>better rightly point this out. 

Your examples are biased. In Example A, you imply that herb X has
little value unless 1) some "useful" portion of it is extracted
and probably synthesized, and b) we need modern investigation to
validate its use. Oriental herb medicine is an empirical science backed up
by thousands of years of clinical observation and practice. It has 
withstood the test of time and continues to be a strong vibrant and
coherent system despite continuous attacks by proponents of so-called
scientific medicine. 

In Example B, you betray a common and understandable bias against Oriental
medicine. Because Oriental medicine is deeply rooted in self-reflection,
observation of nature, and meditation, its theoretical framework appears
to be "hooey" to those of us raised in a Western culture. It requires a
very open mind to be able to overcome these cultural biases. This is
the first step that is required before one can even entertain the 
notion that a living vibrant 5,000 year old Asian medical tradition actually
has something worthwhile to offer. 
-- 
******************************************************************************
Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking
green@island.com            that by his laughter he shows superiority instead
                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Experimentation and teaching on non-patients
Date: 30 Aug 92 12:33:52 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug28.020748.20551@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mdicker@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Dickerson) writes:

>
>Can someone describe what is required during medical school as far as
>being the subject of experimentation and teaching?  I know that it is
>fairly common to use medical students for medical experimentation.  I am
>wondering how much of this is required, how much is because of "pressure"
>to do it, and how much is not required at all.

It is common to use medical students because they generally have little
money and they get paid to be subjects. I participated in studies
when I was a student for just this reason. There is no requirement,
or pressure to do this.

>The other question is the same thing except for teaching.  Is it required
>to volunteer yourself to be used for teaching physical methods (things
>like IVs, general physical exams, etc) to other medical students?  If so,
>what procedures must one undergo in this process?  Are there certain ones
>required and others not?  Does this differ much between medical schools in
>the USA?  How about non-USA medical schools?

Medical students do use each other for teaching, but this is generally
very limited and very prudent. Since they are going to examine
hundreds of patients of the opposite sex, there is no reason to
examine their colleagues in this way.

The only exception to this I have seen is in a course at one medical
school emphasizing how it feels to be a patient, particularly a
female patient in stirrups. They required the male patients to get
up in stirrups (clothed) for a mock-exmination by their colleagues.


 -km
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Unorthodox treatments are *not* the problem  (was: ... name right!)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:53:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug28.195347.17495
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug28.153940.1802@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>Oriental herb medicine is an empirical science backed up
>by thousands of years of clinical observation and practice. It has 
>withstood the test of time and continues to be a strong vibrant and
>coherent system despite continuous attacks by proponents of so-called
>scientific medicine. 

This can be reduced to a single sentence: we don't have to test it
under controlled conditions because it's been in use for a long time.

This assertion fails to take into account the following fact: people
usually get well no matter what you do.  In such cases, treatments which
aren't efficacious will look like they are, unless you design a study
to rule that out.  By your logic, Western medicine should still be
using bloodletting.  In fact, they've stopped, except in the handful
of cases where something like this is useful (polycythemia vera, and
iron overload).  And, in fact, this capacity to be deceived is not just
an attribute of Chinese medicine, it's an attribute of a pre-scientific
approach.  Western medicine itself is still filled with examples of
this nature; it's just that the ones which are most egregious have
been -- and still are -- being winnowed out.  (Witness even this week,
calamine lotion will no longer be able to be marketed as having any
efficacy in treating skin problems like poison ivy.  That's because
it really never did anything to begin with.)

>In Example B, you betray a common and understandable bias against Oriental
>medicine. Because Oriental medicine is deeply rooted in self-reflection,
>observation of nature, and meditation, its theoretical framework appears
>to be "hooey" to those of us raised in a Western culture. It requires a
>very open mind to be able to overcome these cultural biases. This is
>the first step that is required before one can even entertain the 
>notion that a living vibrant 5,000 year old Asian medical tradition actually
>has something worthwhile to offer. 

I don't have much against it, as long as you recognize a metaphor
for what it is.  I don't make the mistake of confusing poetry for
a description of physical reality, and neither should anyone else.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Diabetic coma
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:37:45 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Aug24.032156.23077@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>In referenced article, geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) pronounces:
>> People should be grateful
>>for what information professionals like Ken post here for free.
>>....
>>No one is paying for the information and
>>has any right to specify how it is to be delivered.  That was why
>>my reaction was "screw him".
>
>I've been reading news for over nine years, and have had the pleasure of
>reading the postings of, and corresponding with professional technical
>experts of high calibre in a wide range of disciplines.
>
I'm happy for you.

>Although such gurus are frequently the owners of remarkable egos, this is
>the first time I've seen anyone in any technical group suggest that the
>lack of payment for their "services" should form the basis of the net's
>relationship with them.
>

Amazing how dense some people are!  You thought the point was
that we should be paid?  We have no interest in being paid.
But, the point is, that unless you are paying
you have no right to demand that the information be served according
to your specifications.  Especially when you aren't even the
one who asked the question in the first place.  And those who seem to 
bitch all the time rarely contribute anything of value
themselves, anyhow.  So if you don't like what you are getting
for free, screw you.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: farrar@adaclabs.com (Stephen Daedalus)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Arginine and Lysine as GH releasers
Keywords: amino acids growth hormone
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:35:17 GMT
Organization: The Eye of the Pyramid, Inc.

I have recently heard of a study at the University of Rome that tested the
efficacy of arginine and lysine to promote the release of growth hormone.  They
apparently found that the lysine worked synergistically with the arginine to
provide a much larger release of GH than just arginine alone.
I am a little puzzled by this finding.  Isn't lysine an antagonist of arginine?
Don't they compete for transport across the blood/brain barrier?  Have there
been any other studies concerning the effectiveness of arginine plus lysine?
Are there better non-prescription GH releasers than arginine and ornithine?


Rich
---
New members are urgently needed in the Society for Prevention of
Cruelty to Yourself.  Apply within.
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Tuesday, 1 Sep 1992 08:53:41 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject:    Tick Bites

About four weeks ago I was bitten by a tick, presumably, since it had
already engorged itself and fallen off by the time I saw the hole.
Three weeks later I had the inch wide ring of regenerating skin
surrounded by dying skin surrounded by inflammation. I went to a skin
doctor, who prescribed cortisone cream plus tracycline. A week later
the ring had almost vanished and I thought that was it, *BUT*: this
morning when I got up the whole area is inflamed again, now about 1.5"
across. Anyone with any ideas on what strategy to follow now ??
From: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Dargon ATGW (was: V22 Osprey/ F/A-18 Crashes)
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:08:08 GMT
Organization: Dept. EE, National Univ. of Singapore


From engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)

In article <BtC5C5.6qs@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, chf0@newshost.gte.com (Curtis Fennell) writes:
|> 
|> In article <Bsw19A.15v@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix) writes:
|> |> 	Here are few other questions I had:
|> |> 1.  I was reading a novel by Larry Bond called Red Phoenix.  In the book,
|> |> it said that the Dragon anti-tank missile had a minimum range of 300
|> |> Meters or so. Well, I don't get it.  Fighter missiles has a minimum
|> |> range because they don't want missile lock to it's launcher or they
|> |> don't want launch aircraft crash into debris.  I just don't see
|> |> why Dragon need 300M to fire, as far as I know,the LAW missile 
|> |> doesn't have a minumum range. (or at lesast, it's 10 feet compare
|> |> to the Dragon).
|> |> 
|> |> [mod note -- the Dragon is a wire guided weapon, and I believe that the 300
|> |> meters is needed for the warhead to be armed and for the missile to get up
|> |> to speed ]
|> 
|> There is also a period of time between the weapon leaving the launch
|> tube and the time when it is acquired by the sight and can be actively
|> controlled by the operator.  However, I believe that 300 meters is too
|> big.  The actual acquisition/arming range on a Dragon is closer to 100
|> meters.
|> 
   If Dragon uses the same guidance technology as the Milan then the 300
   meters minimum target engagement distance is very reasonable.  For Milan,
   that distance is about 400 meters.  Short of this distance, the missile
   is kind of unguided by the tracker unit.  It just follow a standard
   flight path.  Of course, you can engage a target once the missile is
   armed (20m for Milan) using the "Rambo" style.  Chances of hitting is
   quite high before the main Rocket ignite (75m for Milan).  Note that
   the missile is gas lanuched.
|> 
|> Most modern jet fighters have "zero-zero" seats in them.  That means
|> that the seat will safely allow a pilot to eject from them if they are
|> sitting stationary on the runway.  

   I heard of someone got ejected inside the hanger and the remains of the
   body were scattered all outside the hanger.  :-(

Won-Soon Lau
-- 
VLSI DESIGN & CAD LABORATORY          \  Internet: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg
Dept of Electrical Engineering         \  Bitnet:  ENGP2065@NUSVM.bitnet      
National University of Singapore        \  Phone:  (+65) 772 6319       
10, Kent Ridge Crescent. Singapore 0511. \______________________________
Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Monday, 31 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:35:08 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Monday, 31 August, 1942

With his tanks halted in a British minefield, Rommel nearly cancels his
offensive, but the Afrika Korps finally breaks through.  Advancing toward
Alam el Halfa, the German tanks run into an area of soft sand, further slowing
their progress.  Alam el Halfa is reached by evening, but the German armor is
repulsed by Grant tanks of the 22nd Armored Brigade.

Australian troops at Milne Bay go over onto the attack.  General Horii is
ordered to put his Japanese units on the defensive at Milne Bay and
to limit his objectives in the Owen Stanley mountains.

The carrier USS Saratoga is torpedoed by the Japanese submarine I-26 and
leaves the Solomon Islands area for repairs.  Only one American carrier,
the Wasp, remains in the Pacific.
                                   
Henderson Field on Guadalcanal is reinforced by the arrival of 18 fighters 
and 12 dive bombers.

The Gestapo breaks the "Rote Kapelle" (Red Orchestra), an important Soviet
spy ring inside Germany.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"The decision to attack today is the most serious I have taken in my life.
Either we reach the Suez Canal now, or else..." - Erwin Rommel
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rda834x@nella3.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi)
Subject: Re: Phonetic alphabet correction
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:31:11 GMT


From rda834x@nella3.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi)

jac54@cas.org writes:


>From jac54@cas.org

>In article <BtC4yL.66B@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> you write:
>>
>>From Mahan_Stephen@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
>>
>>
>>A few issues ago you listed the phonetic alphabet in response to a
>>question by a poster.  Excellent job until the last letter, which is
>>zulu instead of zebra in both the USAF and Ham Radio phonetic alphabets.
>>

>	a       able            b       baker
>	c       charlie         d       dog
>	e       easy            f       fox
>	g       george          h       happy
>	i       item            j       jake
>	k       king            l       love
>	m       mike            n       nancy
>	o       oscar           p       peter
>	q       queen           r       roger
>	s       sam             t       tango
>	u       uncle           v       victor
>	w       whisky*         x       x-ray
>	y       yankee          z       zebra

>	*not "whiskey"!

Here is Australia, we seem to have a different system, but I guess it
varies around the world (English speaking countries that is). My question
is: Is there an actual world standard.

	A	Alpha		B	Bravo
	C	Charlie		D	Delta
	E	Echo		F	Foxtrot
	G	Golf		H	Hotel
	I	India		J	Juliett
	K	Kilo		L	Lima
	M	Mike		N	Novmeber
	O	Oscar		P	Papa
	Q	Qubec (city)	R	Romeo
	S	Sierra		T	Tango
	U	Uniform		V	Victor
	W	Whisky		X	X-ray
	Y	Yankee		Z	Zulu

	Any comment?



-- 
[  Jonathan Zufi                  | rda834x@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au   
[  Robotics & Digital Technology  | zuf@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au          
[  Monash Univeristy, Caulfield	  | "Why?" Topic on English Literature exam. 
[  Melbourne, Australia		  | "Why not?" Student answer, received 99%

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 27 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:26:26 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Thursday, 27 August, 1942

German forces continue to advance toward Stalingrad, crossing the Terek
River and capturing Prochladrii.

The carrier USS Saratoga is torpedoed by the Japanese submarine I-26 and
leaves the Solomon Islands area for repairs.  Only one American carrier,
the Wasp, remains in the Pacific.

The Canadian corvette Oakville catches the U-94 in the Windward Passage
between Cuba and Haiti.  She rams the sub several times, sinking the German
boat.

As a reward for the behavior of the French populace during the Dieppe raid,
Hitler orders 800 French prisoners of war released.

Japanese forces on the Aleutian island of Attu begin to leave for Kiska.

Soviet bombers raid Berlin and other cities in Germany.  Helsinki, Finland
is also attacked.

The battleship USS Iowa, first of a new class, is launched.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker   Moderator, sci.military  military-request@att.att.com
(614) 860-5294      Send submissions to military@att.att.com

"[Assistant Secretary of the Navy Ralph A Bard] said he would guarantee
that she would prove superior to anything that either the Japanese or the
Germans could build, with all their stealth." - The New York Times, on the
battleship USS Iowa
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Subject: Re: Phonetic alphabet correction
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:06:01 GMT


From c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)

In article <BtpCK0.LtF@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> rda834x@nella3.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi) writes:
>
>From rda834x@nella3.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi)
>
>jac54@cas.org writes:
>
>
>>From jac54@cas.org
>
>>In article <BtC4yL.66B@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> you write:
>Here is Australia, we seem to have a different system, but I guess it
>varies around the world (English speaking countries that is). My question
>is: Is there an actual world standard.
>
>	A	Alpha		B	Bravo
>	C	Charlie		D	Delta
>	E	Echo		F	Foxtrot
>	G	Golf		H	Hotel
>	I	India		J	Juliett
>	K	Kilo		L	Lima
>	M	Mike		N	Novmeber
>	O	Oscar		P	Papa
>	Q	Qubec (city)	R	Romeo
>	S	Sierra		T	Tango
>	U	Uniform		V	Victor
>	W	Whisky		X	X-ray
>	Y	Yankee		Z	Zulu
>
>	Any comment?

This seems to be an international standard: it is used in aviation, maritime 
and amateur radio intercourse. It is known as th "alfa-bravo -code". Note that
the first letter is spelled "Alfa", like in Modern Greek, _not_ "Alpha", like 
in Ancient Greek.

During ny Navy service we wre introduced both the Finnish Armed Forces' code
(which includes also letters a" (A-trema), o" (O-trema) and a' (Swedish O))
and we had the following pronounciation instruction for the alfa-bravo -code

letter name    pronounciation              letter name     pronounciation

A      Alfa    AL-fah                      B      Bravo    BRAA-voh (!)
C      Charlie Tshaa-li                    D      Delta    Del-tta
E      Echo    Ek-kou                      F      Foxtrot  Foks-trott
G      Golf    Golf                        H      Hotel    Hou-TEL
I      India   IN-dia                      J      Juliet   DZHUU-li-ETT
K      Kilo    KII-lou                     L      Lima     LII-mah
M      Mike    Maik                        N      November Nou-VEM-bah
O      Oscar   OS-kar                      P      Papa     Pa-PAA
Q      Qubec   Ke-BEK                      R      Romeo    ROU-mi-ou
S      Sierra  Si-ERR-ra                   T      Tango    Tan-go
U      Uniform YUU-ni-foom                 V      Victor   Vik-tah
W      Whiskey WIS-ki                      X      X-ray    Eks-rei
Y      Yankee  Yen-ki                      Z      Zulu     Zuu-lu

This code was used in radio communications with foreign and civilian
vessels and with civilian land radio staions. In aviation, as much as
I know, the alfa-bravo -code is, indeed, international and the only used.

>-- 
>[  Jonathan Zufi                  | rda834x@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au   

  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do  ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like  ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo 72 FINLAND           ++ Edward III. All you need is an   ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like the Duke of Alencon.  ++

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Wednesday, 2 September, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:18:32 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Wednesday, 2 September, 1942

Rommel orders his forces to withdraw to their starting line.  The move
begins slowly, as many units are still paralyzed for lack of fuel, but no
British counterattack is launched.

Australian forces gain ground at Milne Bay, New Guinea, but are forced 
back in the Owen Stanley mountains.  Another 1,000 Japanese soldiers are 
landed at Basabua during the night.

The RAF attacks Karlsruhe, dropping 8000-pound bombs.

The Hawker Tempest prototype flies for the first time.

Reporter: George Patterson (patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com)
Reference: "Ghosts" calendar, 1992

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"Much has been said about the oil region of Baku, but beyond these wells to
the south lie the great fields of Iran and Iraq, upon which British ships,
planes, and motor vehicles are dependent for their fuel supply." - Major
General Stephen O. Fuqua, US Army, Retired
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jdg@raster.kodak.com (Jeff Gortatowsky CUST)
Subject: Re: propeller planee's anti-torque problem
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:38:45 GMT


From jdg@raster.kodak.com (Jeff Gortatowsky CUST)

Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: 
: From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
: cessional effects. Turbines always have sets of stator blades in 
: between sets of the rotor blades. This is so that when the air is 
: passed back to the next stage it isn't whirling around at the same 
: speed as the rotor blades, which would be darned inefficient.

If I remember my Air Force courses correctly, a significant amount
of compression occurs at the stators as they redirect the airflow
coming off the rotors.  The compression occurs as the air attempts
to change direction against the stator. 
--
Jeff Gortatowsky - Eastman Kodak Company   | UUCP  : ..uunet!sisd!jdg
       Digital Systems Center              | InterNet: jdg@raster.Kodak.COM
-------------------------------------------  Voice : (716)-726-0084 (EST/EDT)
Kodak makes film not comments.  Therefore these comments are mine not Kodak's.

Newsgroups: sci.military