HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: killer@psykoman.cs.hut.fi (Kalle Kivimaa)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: decimal prefix
Date: 12 Apr 92 15:09:00 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS-lab

In <1992Apr11.180017.11297@nntp.hut.fi> kalberi@vipunen.hut.fi (Kalle Kaukonen) writes:

>BTW there has been some conversation about Mr. Asimov. Is his name _really_
>written "Issac" in English?? When I first saw it I thought it was just an 

I have several books of Mr. Asimov, both in English and in Finnish, and
each of them has the name "Isaac Asimov" on the cover.  So it is a
spelling error, which no-one has bothered to correct :-(
--
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* The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight *
* in the entire Universe.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTG                     *
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From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Use of this newsgroup (Was Re: TIME TRAVEL)
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:19:42 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Kyle Jones writes about "Re: Use of this newsgroup (Was Re: TIME TRAVEL)" to
All  [07 Apr 92 14:39]

 > Could we stop flaming each other now?  Things are hot enough as it is.

KJ>  Gee, I thought that Mike and I were having a reasonable discusson. 
KJ> No name calling, no sendsys bombing, no Nazis... not a flame 
KJ> war by anyone's standards. :) 

But, but, but.... we were *disagreeing*; we weren't in harmony.  Isn't that
the same as flaming? :-)
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Non-sequitor, but interesting (was: A criticism)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:48:29 GMT

choy@skorpio.Usask.CA writes:
>Richard, what physical law are you referring to? Entropy?
>Isn't entropy a statistical phenomenon that is not hard and fast
>everywhere in the universe in the short term?

Yes and yes.  The point being that entropy is only a 'law' for the long-term 
in a closed system.  

>Even if we can increase the order in the universe, there is no proof
>entropy. Entropy might be something that we wrongly perceive. We proposed
>entropy to be an explanation for many of the things that we observe, but
>explanations must be tested. The test that invalidates entropy may be
>a complete organization of the universe that we achieve.

>Nevertheless, we may be operating under more fundamental physical laws.
>Laws which are physically impossible to bend. I didn't say that we know
>these laws though.

There's no way for me to disagree with this.  But if it is the case. I'd
tend to believe that such unknown laws probably operate on a scale that 
is irrelevant to our perception of intelligence.

>      I wrote "Intelligence is just something we've concocted."

>When a person brings forth an idea of his invention, I might say this person
>has concocted the idea. A computer program may come up with a number; the
>program concocts the number.

>But the point is if we act under physical laws beyond our control, we are
>capable of concocting anything, even explanations for our behavior; the
>physical laws apparently do not deny us this ability.

But it is the physical laws that do the concocting in this case, not us.
This is why I found what you are said difficult to follow.  I read your
original to say that we created either the very notion of our own intelligence,
or that we created the physical manifestation of our intelligence.  Now I
see that you meant it differently.

I don't think we can ever understand intelligence.  But I do think we can
say intelligence exists, simply in comparison to things that don't show
intelligence -- on the scale of size and time on which we judge ourselves.

-rich



-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Issac Asimov
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 06:59:33 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <14167@claris.com>

> > In "Asimov Laughs Again," he has a couple of Mensa stories.  Before the
> > first one, on page 139, he says,

[Asimov slams Mensa quote deleted]

> After Asimov wrote that, he rejoined Mensa and remained a member until a
> year or two before his death, when he ceased his membership (because of his
> ill health) in virtually every club to which he belonged.  The quote you
> so graciously provided was about the early days of Mensa when we did have
> some members who were as Asimov described.  Mensa, as has its membership,

Something doesn't make sense here.  "Asimov Laughs Again" has a 1992
copyright, although much of it seems to be earlier material.  If what
Asimov said was really from 15 or 20 years ago, does anyone know why he
included it in this book?  Anyone reading "Asimov Laughs Again" is going
to get the impression that his final word on Mensa was negative.  Any
idea why he did this?

							Tim Smith
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa Frauds Exposed - reasons exposed
Date: 3 Apr 92 16:33:08 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Apr2.183006.11618@ncsu.edu>, 
tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes: 
>> You and "gmc" have yet to show who is being hurt by Mensa, and how they are
>> being hurt.
> 
> Obviously, anyone who wants "to identify and foster human intelligence for the
> benefit of humanity, and to encourage research in the nature, characteristics,
> and uses of intelligence" (as stated in MENSA's purposes) but who doesn't
> believe in or meet the 2% rule.

*There* it is!  Why didn't I say that earlier?  I mean, surely, these people
aren't "hurt" to any significant extent, but why should they be excluded, 
especially considering that they are likely interesting/stimulating/whatever
people who would get along just fine with present-day Mensans...
Sure, this may drudge up some points which have been done to death, but that
statement by Mr. Tai just seemed to have a ray of clarity to it, and I
couldn't help but to think about it...

> Scott Tai 

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: Lynda Mackey <mackey@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Triple Nine Society
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:14:59 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I have been a member of Triple Nine for about 2 years. So far I have
found no other members in central Ohio. I understand there is an
active group in Texas, but I don't have any idea what they do.

Vidya, the newsletter, is published somewhat erractically, but it is sometimes
entertaining. The organization is quite loosely structured and seems
fraught with internal conflicts. . . but not enough to cause any problems
to me.

Sorry I haven't been much help about whether it's worth joining.
I suppose it depends on what you want to get out of it, and what
you're willing to put into it.
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: signing off rec.org.mensa for the time being
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 02:15:21 EST
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

kenn@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Kenn Frankel) writes:
>chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gail Chesler) writes:
>
>>down any.  At this time, with all these flames, this group ...
>> ... mostly a waste of
>> the time it takes to read.
>
>I was hoping that this newsgroup was a chance for mensans to interact
>electronically.  I would like to see this newsgroup moderated to quiet up
>the whiners.  How can we go about starting moderation?

I am against moderation.  Moderation would make someone the god of the
newsgroup to decide who is a flamer and who is not.  Would you like it
if (for some reason) you were sited as a bad person, and your posts
were edited out.

Moderation would also slow the group, it would take much more time for
messages to propagate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
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|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
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From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: MCAT scores?
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:57:01 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Apr8.113356.1535@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
>> Quoting from the Fidonet Mensa Echo's "Standard Electronic Blurb":

>>  SEB> According to a brochure published by American Mensa, Ltd. the following
>>  SEB> tests and scores are recognized:
[among others...]
>>  SEB>  MCAT or GMAT                                      overall 95%

>Is anyone out there able to tell me how an MCAT score can be translated
>to "overall 95%" or overall any%?

Not with vast confidence, that's for sure.

No doubt there's been a study of IQ-and-MCAT takers, and some cutoff was
developed from the (no doubt middling-high) correlation found in those
studies.

Of course, anyone who's taken the MCAT has probably also taken the SAT
or ACT (though I guess that's not on the list) and perhaps also the GRE.

And, of course, the problems are similar wit hthose tests.

Roger
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: MCAT scores?
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:30:58 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Apr9.035701.18245@Princeton.EDU>, 
roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
> In article <1992Apr8.113356.1535@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
>> 
>>Is anyone out there able to tell me how an MCAT score can be translated
>>to "overall 95%" or overall any%?
> 
> Not with vast confidence, that's for sure.
> 
> No doubt there's been a study of IQ-and-MCAT takers, and some cutoff was
> developed from the (no doubt middling-high) correlation found in those
> studies.

Just an off-shoot of this:  Why is a test such as the MCAT considered
to be applicable to Mensa?  Any idiot savante (or anyone who could read
even) could study their butts off for the MCAT and do quite well.
It only tests knowledge in Chemistry, Physics, and Biology.  The
Reading Comprehension part is a snap if you read efficiently, and the
written portion is so subjective that I can't see it being integrated
very easily into an overall score anyway.  Mensa is the organization for
high IQ, but MCAT has nothing to do with IQ.  It's more a test of education
and the ability to utilize that education.
 
> Of course, anyone who's taken the MCAT has probably also taken the SAT
> or ACT (though I guess that's not on the list) and perhaps also the GRE.

Well, I only took the MCAT (no more tests for me, thanks :) ).

> Roger

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Illiteracy
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:42:49 GMT
Organization: Claris Corporation

In article <702648459.F00005@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> 
> MS = Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com
> DA = me
> 
>  MS> it would answer those who ask "What does Mensa do?"
>  DA> The opposite of what the simple folk do, of course!  B-)
>  MS> So what do the simple Mensans do?
> 
> Everything... except exist.  B-)

but, but, but... I'm simple a Me
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/ The 2% Rule
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:59:46 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

ae775@yfn.ysu.edu (John Schneder) writes:

> Im not an afro-amer..I am anIrish/German of deprived circumstances
> My fore-bearers were peasants and craft-persons who fled oppresion.
> They also fled religious persecution and starvation. I personally
> am from a family of 13 sibs of whom at least 7 qual. for mensa.
> We lived for a long period in a 4 room farmhouse w/no int.plumbing.
> My father never made enough to adequately feed that large a group.
> I had a lot of hand-downetc. Im trying to show deprivation.
> I qualified  and requalified for mensa so I'think that circumstabn
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ces had less to do with it thaninnate ability and desire to join.

Yeah, I could tell from your article...

---------
Scott Tai
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: /T/T/ Weekend Plans
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  7 APR 92 13:47:55    

In article <1992Apr6.201658.2160@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes...
>moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:

>> [zillions of other Scott Tai flames since then deleted]

>> Oh dear, it looks like Scott didn't get a life this weekend.  Maybe if we all
>> chip in, we can get Scott a life by next weekend.  Or at least buy him
>>a clue.

>First you criticize ME for flaming, then YOU flame away?

>Flaming hypocrite!

Reread my post.  I did not criticize you for flaming (though you deserve it),
just commenting on your hypocrisy for claiming you "had a life" yet spent the
weekend flaming away.

-Mike
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Douglass T. Lamb)
Subject: Re: do sat/gre scores correspond to iq?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:07:24 GMT

  I don't see the correlation between IQ and SAT/GRE scores as much of
a coincidence at all.  The man (WASP actually) who originally wrote the
SAT was writing pretty much an IQ test, and although the College Board
has watered down most of the areas and specific material tested on the
test in the years since, there should still be a (less than
significant, perhaps) correlation.  I'm not at all surprised that IQs
of 140-150 would correlate, as one's ability to do well on such tests
would apply both to IQ scorers and to SAT/GRE tests.  Both are scored
on kind of a Gaussian distribution, and maybe the 50% marks should be
compared instead: about 900 on the SAT and about 100-110 on the IQ.

Doug Lamb
dtl8v@Virginia.EDU
From: jess%miracle@merk.com (Shi'nayne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ MENSA's Not A 'Sport Team'!
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:40:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.k7o1iB5w164w
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:

> alopez-o@neumann.waterloo.edu (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
> 
> > -Intelligent requirements for Mensa are essentially the same as athletic
> > requirements for sport teams.
> 
> This is not true.  You only have to qualify for MENSA once, while you
> have to constantly prove yourself on 'sport teams' or you don't play.
> 
> ---------
> Scott Tai

OHMYGOD!!!!!  He actually said something that for the most part, is very
true!! 

Warrior Queen

Vampire Hunters Inc.
jess%miracle@merk.com
If you have vampire problems, call!!  We'll
stake your problem right through the heart!!
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: explanation:: decimal prefix
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:13:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.163527.7981@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> lipscomb@lonestar.utsa.edu (David S. Lipscomb) writes:
>
>What I meant as the powers 1 through 21 of the number 10 in prefix form is
>of the following::
>
>mega, deka, mega, myria

Oh, you mean the metric system prefixes.  Try a good unabridged dictionary
(my Ninth New Collegiate doesn't have a complete set) or the New York Public
Library Desk Reference (from which I extract the following):

	Power of 10	Prefix	Symbol

	     1		deka	  da
	     2		hecto	  h
	     3		kilo	  k
	     6		mega	  M
	     9		giga	  G
	    12		tera	  T
	    15		peta	  P
	    18		exa	  E

Sorry, that's all it lists.

(I've always contended that a true mark of intelligence isn't knowing
 something -- it's knowing how to look something up.  Of course that is
 a self-serving definition -- since looking things up is something I'm good
 at. B^)

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Ducharm's Axiom:
	If you view your problem closely enough you will recognize
	yourself as part of the problem.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Non-sequitor, but interesting (was: A criticism)
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:55:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr16.155830.14033@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.Usask.CA writes:
> 
> Richard H. Schwartz (rhs@world.std.com) writes
> 
> > I don't think we can ever understand intelligence.  But I do think we can
> > say intelligence exists, simply in comparison to things that don't show
> > intelligence -- on the scale of size and time on which we judge ourselves.
> 
> 
> I compare a person to a car; let's see if a car is intelligent.
> Certainly a car has significant features that distinguish it from other

Henry, you seem to be making the base assumption that intelligence is
necessarily linked to free will.  It is not.  If you want to make that
assumption for the sake of you posts, you are free to do so.  But that
assumption is not necessarily held by all.

If your assumption is that people have little or no control over their
ability to exhibit behavior that others call intelligence, then that is
another matter of debate, i. e., that intelligence is fixed and unchanging.

If your assumption is that intelligence by whatever definition is
somehow different from other characteristics, dynamic and static, that
a person may exhibit, I'd find that rather hard to swallow.

GMS
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/T/T/ mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:12:30 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "/T/T/T/T/ mrmrks and beating a dead horse ..." to All
 [06 Apr 92 21:48]

ST> Apparently you do have a reading comprehension problem, since 
ST> you seem to think the Ku Klux Klan is not being discussed, while 
ST> it was mentioned in the previous sentence...

Actually, we were discussing Scott Tai--the moral degenerate sonofabitch motherfucking
bastard hypocritical lair who lacks any vestige of ethics.  I.e., you!
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ of the sexes.
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:41:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <52700@mimsy.umd.edu>, harwood@umiacs.umd.edu (David Harwood) writes:
> (For example, we might consider the chess abilities of the Polgar sisters,
> who have lived to fulfill the wishes of their vain father. By the way, I
> wonder if they play blindfold chess? Anyway, they excel in male-dominated
> competition at a kind of intellectual game.)

Some points to consider in many threads on this group:

1) The probability of all groups, whether racial, religious, sexual,
organizational, national, drivers of particular types of cars, or
snack food preference being identical is very low.

2) The statistical significance of any differences is always subject
to some questionability.

3) Whether a particular group scores high or low in some characteristic
is often used by people to predict the abilities of an individual from that
group.  Whether it is tendency to commit crime, tendency to have a disease,
tendency to be good at checkers, tendency to have  some positive aspect
of a culture, it is incorrect reasoning.  Saying women or men tend
to have more of a certain characteristic, like "intelligence" says
very little about whether Jane or Joe are intelligent.

4) The fact that someone displays some talent and is a member of
group "x" merely says that it is possible that someone in that
group can display that talent.  It says nothing else about that group.


		GROUP != INDIVIDUAL


No matter how badly people would like to believe otherwise.  Aside from
insurance companies, it doesn't help much, since as people we seldom
interact with an entire "group", but often with individuals.


GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: MCAT scores?
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 02:00:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.163059.1553@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.035701.18245@Princeton.EDU>, 
>roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr8.113356.1535@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
>>> 
>>>Is anyone out there able to tell me how an MCAT score can be translated
>>>to "overall 95%" or overall any%?

>> Not with vast confidence, that's for sure.

>> No doubt there's been a study of IQ-and-MCAT takers, and some cutoff was
>> developed from the (no doubt middling-high) correlation found in those
>> studies.

>Just an off-shoot of this:  Why is a test such as the MCAT considered
>to be applicable to Mensa?  Any idiot savante (or anyone who could read
>even) could study their butts off for the MCAT and do quite well.

Go look up "idiot savant." Such people are incapable of studying any
part of ther anatomy off, on, or around.

Anyone who hasn't taken a lot of those subjects, and worked hard at
them, and who can make do with a little specific study for the test and
still do "quite well" is probably pretty intelligent.

>It only tests knowledge in Chemistry, Physics, and Biology.  The

A mere bag o' shells!

>Reading Comprehension part is a snap if you read efficiently, and the

Something HIGHLY ocrrelated with intelligence as it is usually measured,
I might add...

>written portion is so subjective that I can't see it being integrated
>very easily into an overall score anyway.  Mensa is the organization for
>high IQ, but MCAT has nothing to do with IQ.

You say that as though you'd ever studied the matter and determined a
lack of correlation.  I'd be very surprised if that were actually the
case, and I bet ACT has determined otherwise.

>  It's more a test of education and the ability to utilize that education.

"Ability to utilize education" -- sounds like a pretty good definition
of intelligence from here...yeah.

>> Of course, anyone who's taken the MCAT has probably also taken the SAT
>> or ACT (though I guess that's not on the list) and perhaps also the GRE.

>Well, I only took the MCAT (no more tests for me, thanks :) ).

Ah, didn't get in, eh?  No board certification, no licensing?  8-)

Roger
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:39:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <702648459.F00001@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> I wrote:
> 
>  DA> If memory serves, he is the moderator (not in the "censor" sense
>  DA> of moderated newsgroups, but more like the "guy in charge")
> 
> phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) replies:
> 
>  PH> I am _NOT_ in charge here (I'll leave that job to Al Haig :->).
>  PH> Nor is Ed Bertch, nor is ANYONE.
> 
> Then is there nobody "empowered" to speak on behalf of the newsgroup itself?

That would be me, my son!  What is it that you wish to know that the
most intelligent person on this newsgroup may bestow His knowledge
upon thee?

GMS
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP