HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:54:02 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct11.033626.10551@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

 > Either I have not made myself clear, or I am in total misunderstanding
 > of one of my own fields of study.  I argue that anthropology
 > studies the interaction of the individual, the participation of
 > the individual. This should not be confused with the individual-type
 > study that the field of psychology would make.  I see that
 > my abbreviated focci of fields did not make this explicit.  But
 > my understanding is this:  interaction of individuals which may
 > or may not involve institutions.

What you have plainly not done, sir, is read any Anthropology. If one
of your fields of study is in fact Anthropology, you are indeed in
total misunderstanding of it. Absolutely lacking any comprehension of
the material whatsoever. Away from the fields of Physical Anthropology
and Linguistics reasonably claiming their own place under the rubric,
Anthropology studies societies and cultures. The method is *ethnographic*.

The literature of Anthropology is manifest and abundant, and nowhere
does it study either the interaction or the participation of the
individual however long you want to stand there and argue references
to an idea of your very own about "the individual-type study (???)
that the field of psychology would (???) make."

Interaction with what? Participation in what? What on earth is an
"individual-type study"? The most attention we pay to individuals is
as informants of their own society and culture, but we do not study
them as such.

Psychology would? Psychology is not new, with new programs planned for
some time in the future. It has a long history with its own manifest and
abundant literature; it is know to carry out particular studies, and
not others. What are you talking about specifically? Give examples.

Thank you for your interest in this news group.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: coonstot@quads.uchicago.edu (charles orville onstott)
Subject: Re: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Reply-To: coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:58:26 GMT

In article <-1367013136snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct9.192405.21864@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>If you are proposing here a study of Anthropology as a discipline,
>please support your thesis with the facts surrounding the real-life
>work of anthropologists. Certainly there is an abundance of material,
>and I expect there are plenty of Anthropologists who would not be
>too disturbed by your following them around asking silly questions as
>they go about their work.

  It is only from pure arrogance that you should make such a brash
assumption that I have not bothered to read any of the literature--
and that the literature in and of itself is not sufficient for 
an anthroplogical "field study"(as many other anthropoligists have
used literature as a means of study as well).

>
>At least you will probably not be chopped up with a machete for not
>seeking permission from the village before taking a tape measure to
>their land, or shot by the local political opposition. Should be
>fairly safe, so please do not hesitate on those grounds.

	On the contrary, my study of anthropology, using valid
anthropological means, seems to be bringing about the hostility
of at least one of them.

>
> >   True enough; however the question still remains critical to 
> > the study of anthropology.
>
>Anthropology is NOT concerned with the truth value of propositions.
>We do not give two hoots for your uncertainties and arguments, or what
>questions you consider critical, if you cannot present field evidence
>to clarify and support them.

  Perhaps YOU are not interested in the philosophical analysis
of the term "anthropology"; however, there seem to be enough
other anthropologists(who might be offended by your use of the "we")
who seemed concerned.  It is obvious that you feel I have stepped
on your toes, but I am interested in the theoretical implications
of this field which, of course, involves the study of papers
written by those who work in the field.

  And it seems very strange that you do not consider my study of
the "texts of anthropolgy" as a type of field study.  After all,
it certainly seems that anthropologists themselves look to texts
of various societies to learn more about them.  Hence, I see
that your arguement of inability to present field evidence as
utterly vacuous.  I do not feel that it is my place to regurgitate
particular citations in support of general categories.  Of course,
you have not provided any "field evidence" to negate my claim either--
nor do I suspect that you will because I am certain that you have
plenty of other things to do.

>Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au

BCnya,
  Charles O. Onstott, III


Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: erijken@fwi.uva.nl (Esther Rijken )
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:42:37 GMT

In article <mrs.718376806@athena.research.ptt.nl> mrs@athena.research.ptt.nl  (Marieke Schuijt) writes:
>wuytswin@athena.research.ptt.nl (Wuijtswinkel R. van) writes:
>
>>Hello,
>
>>I've got a special question for everyone who wants to respond. It may look a
>>bit strange, but a friend of mine wants to write an article about the
>>following:
>
>>    The femal bosom (breast).
>
>>    - What is so fascinating about it?
>>    - What can you say about the sexological aspects?
>>    - What can you say about the sociological aspects?
>>    - What can you say about the anthropological aspects?
>
>>Please give you view about this. It should be non-medical!
>>Give you own thoughts, opinions or other reactions to the e-mail address below:
>
>>If somebody already published about this subject, please let me know.
>
>>You may also FAX to the following number: +31 40 53 51 85.
>
>Ronald, wat ben jij een rare vent. Je lijkt die gekke Mike Schenk wel!
>Maar wat moet je eigenlijk met deze vragen.
>
>	Groetjes van Marieke

Marieke, ik ben het helemaal met je eens. Wat een walgelijke vertoning
om dit soort dingen te vragen. Zullen wij twee ook eens een
'onderzoekje' houden naar mannelijke geslachtsorganen? En dan zeggen dat
het 'voor een vriend van ons' is. Ja ja, het is ongelooflijk wat sommige
mensen zich denken te kunnen veroorloven.
Je bent wel gezegend met collega's als Ronald en Mike, Marieke....


Esther


Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: annius@nanna.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:58:46 GMT

muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:

>On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:23:00 GMT, annius@nanna.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) said:

>>Peter Mutsaers.         |================================================ 
>>muts@fys.ruu.nl         |        Quod licet bovi, non licet Jovi
>  AG> 				  ^
>  AG> 				  ^

>  AG> Let's all start talking Latin on this group. Quod facit Jupiter
>  AG> sed boves non possunt.

>Thank you for regarding me Jupiter :). (However I must admit my

Thanks for letting me be the `bos'. Quod licet mihi non licet tibi. Lekker
puh!
-- 
Annius Victor Groenink      Universiteit Utrecht      PTT Research Leidschendam
Mathematics/Comp. Sc.        avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl       +31 70 3325445 (weekdays)
Atari ST/Music          A.V.Groenink@research.ptt.nl  +31 70 3464732 (evenings)
_____________My opinions are my opinions____________  +31 5700 29396 (weekends)
Xref: sparky sci.anthropology:1005 soc.culture.netherlands:3146
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Sexism vs. Racism (was Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 16:19:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: femal breast bosom

In article <Bvr413.Fxx@nic.umass.edu> s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu
(If you want peace work for justice) writes:
>I see a lot of sexism on USENET, such as the post above. I am not
>in favor of sexism, racism, etc. and I also do not the like the
>condescending (when not demeaning) way which sexist men refer to women,
>an exact paralel of the way racist whites address people of color.
>I think this needs to improve.

To me it seems that since sexism has a biological component, e.g. the
hormonal response engendered in a male when looking at an attractive
female, it would be difficult if not impossible to eliminate through
just education.  Whereas racism, I always thought, is entirely culturally
based and therefore would be amenable to such treatment. Anyone know better?
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Organization: Rijks Universiteit Utrecht
	<1992Oct7.184752.16039@fwi.uva.nl> <BvtoDq.LLH@apollo.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:46:31 GMT

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:44:14 GMT, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) said:

  PN>   First of all, your comments appear to be directed at your compatriots
  PN>   so a worldwide distribution is inappropriate.

  PN>   Second, unlike, say, French or Spanish or English, Dutch is not very 
  PN>   widely spoken outside of the Netherlands.  So these messages are not

There we go again :-(? Look at the newsgroups, it is a crosspost form
soc.culture.netherlands, which was initiated by the (many) dutch
speaking people that live abroad. Official languages are english *and*
dutch. Although most dutch know english, there is a vast difference
between conversation in you mother tongue and another language.

This has been discussed many times before; lets not start over again.
The only valid remark may be to use english in sci.anthropology, but
not for all worldwide distributions.
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Peter Mutsaers.         |================================================ 
muts@fys.ruu.nl         |        Quod licet bovi, non licet Jovi
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: mrs@athena.research.ptt.nl  (Marieke Schuijt)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Originator: mrs@athena.research.ptt.nl
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:33:02 GMT

annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:

>People did not see it was an ironical reaction to a INTERPRETABLY sexist and
>perverted post asking people to write something about `the female breast'. OK,
>I should have added lots of :-) but I thought that would make it a little too
>obvious.

Dear Annius,

I am not absolutely sure whether or not I should believe you. But to
give you the benefit of the doubt, I think I will. So I no longer
advocate that you should be hanged by the balls from a tree for 48
hours. But I still think that Ronald should undergo this treatment.

Regards from Marieke
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: annius@nanna.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:57:39 GMT

muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:

>On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:23:00 GMT, annius@nanna.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) said:

>>Peter Mutsaers.         |================================================ 
>>muts@fys.ruu.nl         |        Quod licet bovi, non licet Jovi
>  AG> 				  ^
>  AG> 				  ^

>  AG> Let's all start talking Latin on this group. Quod facit Jupiter
>  AG> sed boves non possunt.

>Thank you for regarding me Jupiter :). (However I must admit my
>knowledge of Latin is not enough anymore to do this reply in Latin
>without a vocabulary.)

`suppose you mean dictionary. Quod licet vocabulary non licet Dictionary.

-- 
Annius Victor Groenink      Universiteit Utrecht      PTT Research Leidschendam
Mathematics/Comp. Sc.        avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl       +31 70 3325445 (weekdays)
Atari ST/Music          A.V.Groenink@research.ptt.nl  +31 70 3464732 (evenings)
_____________My opinions are my opinions____________  +31 5700 29396 (weekends)
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 05:20:25 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct11.031955.10104@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

 > Look to the in-order-to of 'women's' studies.  Even if it is
 > a critical study on the masculine, or the phallo-centricism, or
 > the male-centristic elements of society and culture as a whole,

Which society and which culture are you referring to here?

 > across the ages.  Whereas the traditional feminist argument against
 > the history of male thought is the absolute lack of "women" being
 > mentioned; we do not find this to be the case whatsoever in 
 > even critical studies of male thinking.

What traditional feminist argument? What have different feminists
argued in criticism of what social phenomena? How has this discourse
itself external to Anthropology been treated within Anthropology, and
how has it impacted upon the specific discourse of Anthropology?

 >   In what way do you mean this?

In what way do you, sir, mean anything at all relevant to this news
group? If you persist in arguing solely from your premises in Divinity
I must ask you to get off. This group is

                  * SCIENCE * DOT * ANTHROPOLOGY *

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Xref: sparky sci.anthropology:1050 soc.culture.netherlands:3231
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:02:04 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Oct9.094006.18735@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> helene@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Helene Blankespoor) writes:
>>  Second, unlike, say, French or Spanish or English, Dutch is not very 
>>  widely spoken outside of the Netherlands.  So these messages are not
>>  likely to be read or understood by anyone outside your borders in
>>  the first place, except for Dutch travelers, students, etc, who most
>>  likely speak English.    When I was in The Netherlands last year 
>>  virtually everyone spoke English -- I've traveled all over the world
>>  and I've never been to a non-native-English-speaking country where
>>  where such a large percentage of the poulation spoke English as 
>>  The Netherlands.          
>>

>
>There are more Dutch worldwide then you think and we might just prefer
>to be able to read and write in Dutch for a change. This is after all
>s.c.n. 

BZZZT! read the newsgroups line. you have cross-posted into sci.anthroplogy
also. please remove this group from the Newsgroups: line if you wish to
post in dutch.

thank you, 
r
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:50:40 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

you know, all these posts are a lot more enjoyable if you hit control-x
before reading them

r
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 01:50:14 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct6.133109.15664@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU writes:

 > What IS 'anthropological'?  I read GNOSTIC GOSPELS for an anthro class.
 > What is the difference between studying religion in a cultural context,
 > and studying culture? Can you study culture without studying religion?
 > Can you study religion without studying culture?

I have "Gnostic Gospels" on my shelves also, but under Women's Studies
rather than Religion. It sits alongside Greer "Sex & Destiny", Warner
"Alone of All Her Sex", Dahlberg "Woman the Gatherer", Tiffany & Adams
"The Wild Woman", and many others.

What we mean by the term "anthropological" is material not published
within the discourse of Anthropology as a study of society & culture.
It is only of partial relevance that the work is by an anthropologist
as such; what is very important is how the material is treated.

One studies religion in a seminary. One studies the culture which
sustains religion in Anthropology, using the artifacts of religion (in
this case literary artifacts) as examples, within the context of other
related studies on the social organisation of seminaries, for example.

Certainly, I draw on divers cultural artifacts which can not by any
stretch of the imagination be deemed anthropological, since they have
their own purpose far beyond the scope of Anthropology. Whether the
artifact be a literary work, stone edifice, bow & arrow, or anything
at all, does not alter its standing as an artifact. My classifying of
artifacts as a scholar is merely transient, within the thesis I may be
working on at the time, following which they should reasonably be put
back where they belong.

Let me commend the original classic:

        Durkheim, Emile  1915:1965
           The Elementary Forms of the Religious Life,
           New York: Macmillan

Also:

        Eliade M. 1957
           The Sacred and the Profane
           New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich

        Lessa W.A. & Vogt E.Z.  1979
           Reader in Comparative Religion,
           New York: Harper & Row

        Morris B. 1987
           Anthropological Studies of Religion
           Cambridge: CUP


Other names of significant influence on the way we view religion as
anthropologists are Hegel, Feuerbach, Marx, Weber, Muller, Spencer,
Tyler, Frazer, Freud, Jung, Levy-Bruhl, Levi-Strauss, and much more
recently Bourdieu and Foucault. This list is by no means exhaustive;
please feel free to add to it.

And the best of luck with your studies.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: coonstot@quads.uchicago.edu (charles orville onstott)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Changes in Methodology
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:59:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Oct14.225949.7869
Reply-To: coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <Bw3HHC.4wI@rice.edu> pound@ruf.rice.edu (Christopher Brian Pound) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.004945.2088@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
[List of "New" Anthropologists Deleted.]
>
>Whoa! Hey, thanks for skipping right over the most revolutionary of the bunch
>(George Marcus, Michael Fischer, Steve Tyler ;).

Sorry about that, I was naming them off of the top of my head(and
my bookshelf).  

  In a sense, we might even claim that Malinowski began the
procedure with the publication of his diary. (_A Diary in the
Strict Sense of the Term_)  But, I would reserve too far of
a claim on this point.  :)

>
>I'll have to ask where it was published, but George's most concise statements
>on this topic are in an article called "Past, present, and emergent identities:
>requirements for ethnographies of late twentieth century modernity worldwide."

  I would like publication information on this particular article.

>
>Don't know how helpful that is, but I was just feeling a little academically
>marginalized.

   Very Helpful.   Also, I suspect you are not the only one
feeling academically marginalize.  :)
 
>Christopher Pound	+	I am human by my hands and my feet, my guts,

BCnya,
  Charles O. Onstott, III

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles O. Onstott, III                    (coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu)
Graduate Student in Religion and Human Sciences
The University of Chicago Divinity School

"Les dieux existent : c'est le diable."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: coonstot@quads.uchicago.edu (charles orville onstott)
Subject: Re: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Reply-To: coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:54:47 GMT

In article <BvoI01.G01@nic.umass.edu> s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice) writes:
>In article <1992Oct05.135822.10670@rchland.ibm.com> bechdol@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>>
>>Greetings !
>>
>>Does anyone know of any references that approach the Scriptures from a cultural
>>anthropology point of view that put the Text in the idioms of the time when it 
>>was written?
>>
>>                                                          Jeffery A. Bechdol
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There is a book written by Elaine Pagels, a prof. of religious studies
>at Princeton - The Gnostic Gospels - about the 52 gnostic gospels

  I would also suggest _Adam, Eve and the Serpent_  by the same author
for the type of study you are looking for.  This particular 
book deals specifically with variations on the theme of sex from
the Adam and Eve story.


>
>This is not an anthropological study but you may find it interesting -
>especially because of what it reveals.
>
>Vera B.

BCnya,
  Charles O. Onstott, III

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles O. Onstott, III                    (coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu)
Graduate Student in Religion and Human Sciences
The University of Chicago Divinity School
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: viktor@mks.com (Viktor Haag)
Subject: Re: Sexism vs. Racism (was Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!)
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:15:05 GMT


Can we at least agree not bring sexism into our raging discussion about
sexism?  (8-))

I begin to shudder when intimations are made that sexism consists of,
among other things, the "sexual harrassment of women", as if they
are the only group of people who are harrassed sexually.

I realise that most of this is good-natured mudslinging, but as
anthropologists (or at least those interested in same) we should be
a little more careful and aware about bandying about such buzzwords ...

Let's lay this to rest, and get on with more interesting things, shall we?


-- 
Viktor Haag					viktor@mks.com
Mortice Kern Systems				(519) 884-2251
35 King North, Waterloo, Ontario		ext. 41
"we are not thugs. we are vitamin supplements to justice ..." | a selector