From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Can science come back to Islam [Part 2]
Keywords: Be cool & sane.
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:08:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

In article <1992Apr9.121441.4957@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> vu0208@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (!!) writes:
>
>
>I am sure you wouldn't disagree that our science is evolving and not
>perfect yet - right? so one can say that our logic is not perfect
>yet!!! in such a despairity of absolute TRUTH, if we believe in Quran
>and take its word for granted in good faith and hope that some day our
>science will discover the unknowns or poorly knowns (phenomenas) THEN
>what's wrong about it, and what's obnoxious about it ??!!
>
I agree. There is absolutely nothing obnoxious about believing what the
Quran says. But you missed my point again. What I find obnoxious is its
*interpolation* to topics not explicitly covered (such as the black holes
and white dwarfs being explained). Or to take another example, if a certain
scripture X says "what goes up must come down", then I would consider it 
obnoxious for people to interpolate it as proof that gravitational laws
were discovered well before Newton. 

>> (The funny thing is no one seems to be able
>>to indicate the missing links from the scriptures until modern research
>>has conclusively proved it.) 
>
>What is this missing link? please elaborate.
>

They refer to phenomena not yet discovered i.e., as soon as some astounding
results/phenomena etc. is announced, all religious bodies immediately
scramble to turn their noses up in the air saying 
"Oh, but our scriptures discovered this many centuries ago". 
It makes me feel like bonking their head with a rolled up newspaper and 
screaming "then why the hell didn't you say so before". 

>
>>As far as my observation of human behavior goes, humans have always
>>had a thirst for 
>>knowledge, an internal drive to expand their knowledge and conquer all 
>>that is possible, irrespective of whether or not their holy books demand
>>that thirst. 
>
>NOT true, replace `knowledge' by `food/material' in your above statement!

I guess you are referring to Maslow's heirarchy of needs. Sure, food
and survival are the first things that man strives for. But after that he
seeks to better his life in all possible ways which results in the expansion
of his knowledge. Its an automatic process not limited to man alone. Animals
learn by experimenting too (Perhaps they have their own holy scriptures ;-) )

>No you did NOT ask for a "thought experiment", rather asked for
>ignorig Quran for a second (see above), which we are not suppoed to
>do, call me a fanatic, but that's how have to live. Not even for a
>second you must loose your senses.

Ok, forget I ever said 'put aside/ignore the Quran for a second'. 
Please continue to think as you feel comortable and now re-try to
answer my original question, that is --

"which of the alternatives do you consider more credible? The 
advanced civilization bit or the poets fantasizing bit about the 
Ramayana?"

>
>BTW, in you proposed experiment, you had already put words in my mouth
>to declare them eitehr as "advanced" or "fantasizing" people! but no
>other choice, and that's not good sign of intellectual discussion.
>

But you have the choice to point out the other alternatives that I was
unable to think about. There was no deviation from intellectual honesty
on my part. Intellectual inadequacy... perhaps.

>
>I will - so stay tuned.
>
thank you

>Q: Have you read Quran in any conetext - ever ??
>Becaz this will help me knowing that how nuch you know about Quran.

Yes, but very little and very randomly. Since my interest in it has
been perfunctory, I can't quote any verse off hand from it. 
But does my limited knowledge of the Quran render my discussions as 
totally illogical or baseless ? 


regards,
--
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