HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:17:20 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul27.165559.19591@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
...
>
>Actually, I doubt it. Miss Sayers' High Church psoition would have made
>her as familiar with the Old Testament as any Roman Catholic in that time
>and place, which means not at all. I can be wrong, and often am, so it
>would be useful if someone described the character of the two biblical
>Ahasueri (?) so that we might judge for ourselves which might be more
>appropriate for Honoria Lucasta's lap-cat who was sufficiently jealous
>of Harriet Vane when kissed by the Dowager Duchess that she buried her
>claws in our heroine's legs.

If I recall correctly from the Esther megillah, one ahasueros
was, at best, a simpleton.  He became sufficiently miffed at his
Queen Vashti, who did not come when he called for her, to have
her executed  (In some versions of the story, she's merely ugly
and unfit, in her opinion, to be seen by the king and court.  In
other versions, she has advanced leprosy).

As the story progresses, we see that he really is in the control
of his advisor, Haman, who is the real bad guy.


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Agnostics and Athiests
Class: misc
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:20:23 GMT

I think people put too fine a point on this.   Agnostics proudly stand up
and say that there is no way one can know for sure, but the fact is
that the vast bulk of them do not believe there is a god, and thus
in my book they are athiests, (literally non-theist.)

The number of athiests who state that they know there is a god and that
it is impossible that there be any sort of god is small.   The Objectivists
are about the only ones I have met of that stripe.

Most athiests and agnostics are the same.  They think there is no god,
they admit it is possible but unlikely and that nobody knows for certain.
There's no difference between them.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: oopcv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: _A Constitutional History of the United States_
Reply-To: oopcv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:04:39 GMT

In article <11508@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <9207291415.AA13678@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> > Unfortunately, I run into too many college students like the gal
>> > who recently expressed amazement at discovering the U.S. had a
>> > Civil War in the last century.  (Yes, educated in California).
>> 
>> This is unfortunate.  I'm as amazed by this as I am by the fact that
>> there are still people who refer to women as "Gals."  It is unfortunate
>> that education does not imply enlightenment.
>> 
>> Mark
>
>I wasn't aware that it was perjorative.  "Gal" is sufficiently
>non-descriptive of age to cover anything from a little girl to
>an elderly woman, without conveying anything about her age.
>
>English will be SO MUCH SIMPLER once we remove all those evil
>words with subtle shades of meaning.
>
>I will remember -- "gal" is doubleplusungood.

I've been referred to as a 'gal' by male friends.  I didn't realize I was
supposed to be offended.  I've been called 'wench', too, and not been offended. 
I gather that I am a failure as a female, for not seeking out these subtle
put-downs and responding to them in a hostile manner.  I'd much rather be
called 'gal' or 'wench' than 'feminist' (and don't flame me for this, we all
live our lives as we see fit).

I propose that the source of these terms needs to be considered.  Do not take
offense where no offense is intended.  Lighten up, people.
>--
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:07:45 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Keywords: Party games?

In article <1992Jul30.223907.14340@husc3.harvard.edu> 
zeleny@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
| Susan Gere writes:
|
| >O all right, I was leaving out the truly distasteful features of
| >the group.  We must more recently add:
| >
| >	n.) zeleny crossposts to six wildly unrelated groups
| >	    in a desperate attempt to obtain an audience
| 
| Actually, it is:
| 	n.) zeleny crossposts to three wildly unrelated groups
| 	    in a desperate attempt to conceal his dark design

Close, but not quite.  It is:
	n.) zeleny crossposts to three wildly unrelated groups
	    in a deperate attempt to obtain an audience for whom
	    he displays, among other shortcomings, his homophobia, 
	    which he tries to justify with a woeful misreading of
	    Kant

| >...but if we allow this sort of thing, we must instantly switch
| >to Darjeeling if anyone is to remain conscious.
|
| Nice to hear from you, Ms Gere.  Give my felicitations to Richard on
| the occasion of your successful extraction from his nether parts.

And how could I have forgotten to point out Zeleny's Odessa by way
of Los Angeles Soviet emigre wit?

Arne


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:50:52 GMT

Darin M. Powell writes of my quote of Dickens' _Tale of Two Cities:


	It was a list of words, it was not a list of words, it was
	a run-on sentence, it was not a sentence, it was the beginning
	of a book, it was not the beginning of a book, it put me sleep --
	in short, put me into an irreversable coma....

	To bad Dickens never met Mr. Strunk.

	Darin Powell


	
		Such tricks hath strong imagination,
		That, if it would but apprehend some joy,
		It comprehends some bringer of that joy;
		Or in the night, imagining some fear,
		How easy is a bush suppos'd a bear!

		--Keith

--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cs106b16@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs106b16)
Subject: Re: What happens to authors when they die
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 05:21:49 GMT

>There seems to be a lot of speculation about where Isaac Asimov ended up.
>A number of people seem to be saying that since he was an atheist, he
>won't go anywhere.

Well those people are wrong. I don't know how strong his faith was, but he
is <or rather was :-( > jewish...

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13519 talk.religion.misc:13095 sci.skeptic:13440
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:12:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <25032@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
> In article <11455@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes...
> >Which prepackaged religions predicate "the Universe being roughly
> >6000 years old"?  I seem to have missed that one.
> > 
> >Even many fundamentalist Christians don't subscribe to that notion, and 
> >certainly, most Christians of all stripes don't.  In any case, it
> >isn't part of the religion.
> 
> Come on, now.  Ask the pope how old the Earth is.  What do you think he will
> say?  I have met plenty of fundamentalists who argue that the fossils were
> just put there by god to make the Earth look old...

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?  Catholicism hasn't held to a 6000 year
old Earth for at least a century.

I've met those sort of fundamentalists also.  I've also met a number
who don't share that view.  You might try _The Fingerprint of God_
for an example of a fundamentalist who certainly recognizes the age
of the Earth.  Much of the book is a very good summary of the changing
arguments about the age of the Earth and Universe, written by a guy
with a Ph.D. in Astrophysics from University of Toronto.

> Nowhere in the Bible does it say the homosexuality is a disease. Yet the 

Your ignorance is showing again.  It does list it as a sin, along
with many others.  If you choose to disagree about the validity
of the Bible, fine, but don't pretend that it's not in there.

> Pope calls it an "objective disorder" and many fundamentalists simply
> froth at the mouth over the thought of having to share the planet with 
> such people.  Claiming that the Bible doesn't say it and that many Christians 

I've never met such a frother, myself.  I have met some pretty
angry victims of child molestation, by homosexuals.  They might
get close to that angry, on a bad day.

> don't believe it doesn't change the fact that it is a part of the 
> religion for many if not most of the most religious.
> 
> Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character

Disapproval of homosexuality is CLEARLY a part of the religion, just 
like disapproval of adultery, murder, and promiscuity are part of
the religion.  You don't like it?  Fine.  I'm not trying to force
you to change.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:25:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books

In rec.arts.books, spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:

> 
>To whit: A friend of mine is taking an "Intro to Literature" class this summer.
> This means that the entire class, start to finish, is somewhat less than five 
> weeks.
> 
>I've glanced at the reading list:  Joyce is represented (by a short story), 
>Hemmingway is represented (by a short story), and all the tried and true 
>industrial strength poets are represented (each by a single poem).
> 
>In all,my friend here is allegedly being introduced to "literature" by about a 
> dozen short works constituting, all together, somewhat less than 75 pages.
> 

I see no real problem with this.  All any intro class can really do
in a short amount of time is try to engender a love for learning more
about the field.  So what if exposure is limited.  Once they have
a love for literature, they will find more diverse stuff.  God knows
I have, and I NEVER took an intro to literature class.

doug
From: moon!cyberden!jwlhyfer@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.horror
Subject: Re: Transformation list just posted; additions eagerly wanted
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 09:15:01 PDT
Organization: Indescribable Creations

phaedrus@cs.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus) writes:

> 
>      I just posted a rather long list of books and stories involving
> transformation themes to rec.arts.sf.written.  I wanted to diversify this
> list beyond the sf/fantasy emphasis it has now, so I had planned on 
> crossposting it to rec.arts.books and alt.horror, but our NNTP server is
> screwed up, and the only way I could get the list posted was to send it to 
> the ucbvax gateway, which doesn't allow multiple newsgroups.  So I'll just 
> ask anyone interested in the list and/or willing to help me expand it to 
> look in rec.arts.sf.written for the four posts with "Transformation stories
> list, v7" in the header, or to mail me for a copy.  Thank you very much in
> advance for any help you can give me in expanding the list.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> \ Mark Phaedrus, Computer Science Major, Univ. of Washington, Seattle, WA \*\
> *\ Work: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu        Play: phaedrus@u.washington.edu \*
> \*\ Cute .sig quote still under alpha-testing; planned for release in 1993. \
>  - Hi!  I'm an anti-virus utility!  Install me in your .signature right away!

The Chronicles of the Cheysuli by Jennifer Roberson,have a transformation 
theme..Are you interested in Vampu\yre books where the vampyre can 
transform? If so...Death Coach and Death Angel by J.N. Williamson..
Tharts all for now

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N       [ moon!cyberden!jwlhyfer@well.sf.ca.us ]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dante@microsoft.com (throated plaid)
Subject: Frederick Exley
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:57:59 GMT
Organization: the velvet sweatshop

I heard recently that the author Frederick Exley
(_A_Fan's_Notes_) has passed away. Has anyone
seen an obituary, eulogy, or some kind of 
article about Exley's death? 

If anyone can point me towards a periodical 
that'd be much appreciated. Pls email as I
don't read this newsgroup. 

thanks

--
dante@microsoft.com
From: gms@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: isolation
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:04:25 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul21.160609.17193@ists.ists.ca>, donofrio@nereid.sal.ists.ca (Frank D'onofrio) writes:
> 
>   Anthony Storr is an English psychologist who wrote a book called
> "Solitude". It deals mainly with the benefits of solitude and he shows
> how the ability to handle, and the desire for, isolation is a sign of maturity.
> 
> 
> Frank 

Available in paperback! :-)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13209 alt.books.reviews:24
From: jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re: RAH
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:30:51 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

From article <1992Jul26.160741@IASTATE.EDU>, by mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin):
> In article <1992Jul25.233617.11433@slammer.UUCP>, brad@slammer.UUCP (Brad Isley)
> writes:
>> In article <1992Jul24.130651@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
> writes:
>> >I read Farnham's Freehold a long time ago, and liked it.  The plot is nicely
>> >worked out, tight, and interesting.  For some reason, it was never very
>> >popular.  
>> 
>> I read it, too.  I have read almost all of RAH's work.  It was one of the
>> few of his earlier works that I did NOT like.  Why?  It was depressing.
>> Sure, the mechanics were right, and the morals he was trying to espouse
>> were ones that I agreed with.  I just got depressed reading it.  It might
>> be a common opinion - explaining it's lack of popularity.
>> -- 
>> emory!slammer!brad   (Brad Isley)
>> +1 404 841-4169 Work			 Nopottopeein: "Howzit Goink?"
>> +1 404 925-9663 Home			  The gang: "Fine, just fine."
> 
> You know, Brad, I think you're right.  People like a nice optimistic view
> of the future, and this one *wasn't*.  Thanks for reminding me.
>

Hmmmm, it's been a while since I read the book, but I thought it
ended with Hugh (?) and Barbara (?) in a fairly safe, independent
position.  I don't remember if they somehow changed the future
from that of the cannibals to the one they were in, or just ended
up far away from the cannibal society. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12999 rec.humor:24476 talk.religion.misc:12640 sci.skeptic:13185
From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:28:32 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <1992Jul24.164931.142181@cs.cmu.edu>, rudis+@cs.cmu.edu (Rujith S DeSilva) writes...
> 
>A nice argument, but I don't quite agree with your conclusion.  One does not
>have to believe or disbelieve in the DBB; one can merely say that one doesn't
>know.  Of course, the real test is when one is forced to decide whether to do
>or not to do something depending on whether the DBB exists or not.  In this
>case, I see no alternative to resorting to probabilities as you did, or to
>Occam's razor (perhaps the same idea in a different guise?).

This point of view forces you to say "I don't know" to everything.  I don't
know if my wife exists.  I am only highly confident.  The probability, in
my best assessment, is such that I should always act as if she exists, but 
I will never "KNOW" if she exists.  Sorry, I don't buy it.

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Lenora M. Weber and Janet Lambert (was Re: Young Adult Books)
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:58:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.195208.14488@csusac.csus.edu> yarnot@csusac.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot) writes:
>Another "when I was a girl" series that didn't do it for me on re-reading
>was the Beany Malone books by (?I think) another Webster.  The Malones
>are middle-America in the 50s, pretty much when I was growing up, but they
>don't have the charm of Betsy-Tacy or Laura Ingalls.

Lenora Mattingly Weber.

I reread a number of them a few years ago and found they stood up quite
well. Period pieces now, of course, but the characters did come alive.

At the same time as I read the Weber books, I was also enamoured of the _long_
series of books by Janet Lambert. I tried rereading my collected stock last
year, looked up, and said, "This is smarmy garbage!"

Would anyone like them? They are a priceless indication of American attitudes
and mores from the 30s to 60s (I think "junk" books are often better at
elucidating a culture than regular books). I'll get rid of them (~40 books,
almost every book she wrote, mostly hardcover) for $10 plus postage.
Phone 613-722-6210 if you're interested or write alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12932 rec.arts.sf.misc:2182 rec.humor:24391 alt.folklore.urban:19651
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:04:02 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul22.222900.6522@dscomsf.desy.de>, hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker) writes:
> In article <1992Jul22.132513.29828@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>,
> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
> 
> |>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?
> 
> Depends if they are taking part in a snuff movie called `Dinner at
> Dahmers or not'.
> 
> Phill

"Dinner at Dahmer's" -- doubtless, the next movie released by Time-
Warner.  I'm sure it will be very successful.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Amy Clampitt
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:45:36 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Any information on the poet Amy Clampitt would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Repeat after me:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:14:41 GMT

From article <srutt.711951273@beagle>, by srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng):
> I've long been interested in the definition of atheist and agnostic. I've 
> heard a few, but I prefer this one: an atheist is one who BELIEVES that 
> God does NOT exist and an agnostic is one who is simply skeptical about
> the existence of God. So under this definition, only an agnostic can be
> a true scientist (of thought, not necessarily profession).
> 
>                            -steve

People who are truly skeptical of something usually don't believe
it (until and unless evidence to the contrary is presented).
That's what an atheist is with respect to the existence (or even
the concept) of god. 

Do you really think that scientists have no beliefs?  Does having
a belief require absolute certainty and a refusal to change your
mind in the light of new knowledge?
_______
Al Tino
tino@globe2.ATT.COM
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12991 rec.humor:24473 talk.religion.misc:12636 sci.skeptic:13182
From: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:56:11 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul24.164931.142181@cs.cmu.edu> rudis+@cs.cmu.edu (Rujith S DeSilva) writes:
>Anyway, here's the obligatory anecdote (for the benefit of rec.humor): Some
>philosopher/theologician, when questioned as to whether he believes in God,
>replied, [paraphrased] ``Either God exists or He doesn't.  Either I believe in
>God or I don't.  Of the four possibilities, only one is to my disadvantage.
>To avoid that possibility, I believe in God.''

This sounds like Pascal, who argued that belief in God was the way to bet.
Unfortunately, there are two flaws in this reasoning:
   1) Belief in God may carry disadvantages, e.g. you may avoid doing things
that you would otherwise enjoy.
   2) Belief in God based on this notion that it's the safest thing to do may
actually count against you.  For all we know, a sincere disbelief may leave
you better off than belief motivated by a desire to play the odds.

Actually, the second flaw is an instance of a more general problem with this
type of reasoning: how do we know what God(s) want(s) us to do?  Maybe God
prefers non-believers in general; there's just no possible way to estimate the
odds.

Basically, you have to believe what you think is right based on other reasons,
and just hope you haven't got it fatally wrong.

   Robert
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: fiction endings
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:04:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.042225.28681@oracorp.com>, harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes...
>In article <l+bm!6.troach@netcom.com> troach@netcom.com (Tom Roach) writes:
>.....
>>I would like to know other reader's opinions on the most memorable
>>last sentences in books, short stories, or whatever they've read.
> 
>I was walking on a city sidewalk when I started reading the last page of
>Peake's "Titus Alone".  I was sitting on the concrete when I finished.
> 
>-- 
>Douglas Harper     | ORA Corporation | 301A Dates Drive | Ithaca, NY 14850 
>harper@oracorp.com | (607) 277-2020  | FAX: 277-3206    | USA

The perils of ambulatory reading. If you have never said "Excuse me" 
to a parking meter or bashed your shins on a fireplug, you are 
probably wasting too much valuable reading time.

Sherri


Sherri Chasin Calvo
calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books