From: mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Originator: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:25:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.202436.20084@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>Mokhtar shows a near total misconception of the meaning of democracy,
>as well as a misunderstanding of the word no.

  I am quite aware of what democracy means, thank you.

>  In democracies, the
>governments rule with the consent of the citizens.

  How about a government that defines its citizens as only its white
residents? Israel avoids the problem by carefully selecting who to call a
citizen.  Who is ruling over the residents of Jerusalem, the West Bank
and Gaza? Do they consent to the Israeli government?

  Israel has a racist method of assigning citizenship. It rules with the
consent of the majority of those it wishes to define as citizens. A racist
product of a racist state.

>  It is theoretically possible for a democracy to exist without the freedoms
>customarily associated with democracies.

  This is certainly possible, but Israel is not an example of that. Israel is
already oppressive, it needs to become a democracy before it can be an
oppressive democracy.

> If the Israeli government
>permitted the display of the terrorist PLO flag, against the wishes of
>the vast majority of its citizens, that would be undemocratic.

  The flag in question is the Palestinian flag, not the PLO flag. Declaring
your enemy to be terrorist is quite common and does not make it true.

>The laws are the same for all citizens,  Jew and non-Jew.  All nations
>have laws regulating immigration, and those laws do not apply to
>citizens (by their very nature).

  Let me repeat myself:

>>    A Palestinian born and raised in Jerusalem cannot return while a total
>>    stranger from Russia is welcomed, given citizenship and accomodation.

  Israel's laws are not the same for all its citizens, see laws regarding
military service and benefits accrued from it. The immigration laws are
designed to define who the citizens are in order to transform the region
demographically.

>>  - Taxation without representation. Ask anyone from the occupied territories.
>>    Israel is no democracy.

>The territories are not part of Israel.  These comments could just as
>well apply to Peurto Rico or the US Virgin Islands.

  Of course not! Puerto Rico has its own government, and so do the Virgin
Islands. Palestinians are given a government that defines them as enemies.
They choose nothing, they just pay.

  Furthermore, since when is the U.S. the standard by which democracy is
measured?

>>  - Israel is in violation of numerous UN resolutions. Israel is no democracy.

>That's the same UN that passed the infamous "Zionism is Racism"
>resolution, thus losing any credibility it might have had in the
>Arab-Israeli conflict.  One cannot take any of those automatic
>anti-Israel resolutions seriously.

  That's also the same UN that partitioned Palestine. At least we agree on the
credibility of the UN, although for different reasons. Let's not be selective
in what resolutions to implement.

>Palestinian territory?  There is no such thing, since there has never
>been an independent entity called Palestine.

  The big lie. I saw Palestinian money and passports. I have friends who were
born in Palestine. Palestine is drawn as a state in any atlas or map before
1948, check it out. Even national geographic had many maps that show
Palestine. In any case, independent or not, Israel is now occupying it.


  Israel is occupying Jerusalem, Gaza, The West Bank, South Lebanon, the
Golan heights, and until recently Sinai. Israel occupied territory from
everyone of its neighbors, then complains that it has many enemies.

  "The borders of Israel extend as far as the Israeli army can go."


Regards,

Mazen Mokhtar

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic