HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Re: Jim Bowery's offensive posting
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:11:50 GMT

In article <w5_rmq#@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>
>
>Carl's appointed himself world-wide guardian of politically correct free
>speech.  Best way to handle it is to simply put him in your kill file.
>
    PC?  Not really. He was distictly un-PC in a debate on sexual harassment
a few months ago. PC can be defined now as just whatever the speaker doesn't
like.
    Kill file? Sure.

DanZ


-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Jim Bowery's offensive posting
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:06:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: gaia.1gg54aINNfm6
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
NNTP-Posting-Host: skyking.oce.orst.edu

In article <Bz7AoC.HAJ@cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>CAF-News has had several articles about how much news admin should
>enforce the charters of unmoderated newsgroup. I'm enclosing
>references to those articles.

Who is CAF-News, and who put them in a position of authority over all
news admins? I.e., who cares what CAF-News thinks news admins should be
doing?
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Jim Bowery's offensive posting
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:10:03 GMT

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>Carl's appointed himself world-wide guardian of politically correct free
>speech.  Best way to handle it is to simply put him in your kill file.

Hmmm....looks like more ELITISM (post only what we think you should post)
from news admins. Way to go Mr De Armond.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Nobody wants constructive criticism.  It's all we can do to put up with
constructive praise.
From: styri@hal.nta.no (Haakon Styri)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Meanwhile, back at news.admin.policy (Was Re: That "Hitler" was an amateur)
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:17:47 GMT
Reply-To: styri@nta.no
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research

In article <visser.724483820@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
writes:
> [...]
>
> 	He has managed to do a great deal of damage to soc.history
> and soc.culture.europe as groups by his postings.  There is nothing
> than can be done about it though.

Sure is, just edit the appropriate KILL-files and you reduce the information
flow. However, some of the stuff will get through in the form of followups.
Annoying, but damage? - no, not really (if you ignore possible copyright
infringement and slander).

---
Haakon Styri
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 20:57:31 GMT

bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:

>     If a couple of people agree to exchange "noise" on a mutual basis,
>     why shouldn't they complain when you use their links to make 
>     money on?

Bengt... you must be practicising for some college debate or something
where you just use your mouth and not you head.

Where did I ever say that _I_ wanted to make money on this ?  I want to
_save_ money on this.  I gave a dozen examples in this and previous
threads that implied that somebody (I'm somebody also) would benefit
from learning of a place to get a good deal on a modem or a printer or
the software solution to some programming problem.

And besides, "why shouldn't they complain" maybe because it doesn't do
anybody any good to restrict the type of information that can be posted
and the people in your example aren't paying all the costs that their
version of noise, generates.

Speaking of not answering questions.  Did you figure out yet how the
cost of transmitting .GIF files isn't borne by simply the sender and
the receiver ?  If you send completely worthless messages across the
net the costs are accumulated by all machines along the path.

I wrote:

>>We simply see evil in different closets Bengt.  I see evil in postings
>>like "Dell Computers ripped me off for $4,000" and you seem to see evil
>>in posting like "Dell is offering a free 9600 baud modem with the
>>purchase of their '486/50 system until the end of the year".

>So why not I use my group and you use yours?

Because the "Dell ripped me off" message was posted in comp.sys.ibm.pc
and misc.lang and alt.forsale.computers and misc.politics.perot and
alt.bizarre.

So are the follow-up messages saying "Hmmm... I've had good luck with
Dell" and then the one where somebody calls the original poster an
asshole and the next one calls the person who called the original poster
an asshole an asshole.

You see, if the original poster posted the message in the appropriate
trash can the problem wouldn't exist.
>
>Sounds like an "elitist" position... Do you have a problem with
>people exchanging whatever they want on a separate channel that you
>easily can avoid? 

How can avoid it when it is posted in the newsgroups I read... you're
suggesting that there is no problem with crime in your city because you
can always move.  The elitist attitude is yours, I have never called
for a ban on stupid messages or alt.sex.masturbation.

>There'll probably always be people who say "Duh. I want. Here. Now."

Well there you are Bengt summing up your position in one line what was
all the nonsense prior to this designed to do, confuse the reader ?

tom

Xref: sparky news.admin:8745 news.admin.policy:765
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Harmlessness of a.b.p.e (long, but read it anyway)
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:24:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Dec14.042439.9952
Reply-To: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

lowen@lorc.eskimo.com (Lamar Owen) writes:

>In <1992Dec1.194556.7570@news.columbia.edu> dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov26.080254.11159@qiclab.scn.rain.com> Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>>>dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>>>Fact: many, many BBSes and other onlines services are making a lot of
>>>      money *charging* for images.
>>>
>>  Fact: a.s.p came first.

>More likely a.s.p came concurrently with non-Usenet BBS sources, such as a
>few boards in Atlanta that shall remain unnamed.  Are you aware of the total
>BBS chronology, including what the first , second, third, fourth, etc BBS's
>were, including dates and times of first operation?  If you are, please
>dump core so that everybody else can find out. :-).  Fact: *nobody* knows
>whether a.s.p was first or not beacuse of the vast non-connected realm of
>private BBS's.

I've been on the Net since before the "great renaming". The BBSes with 
huge libraries of "adult" graphics predate a.s.p. by several *years*.
Event Horizons (the system that got in trouble with Playboy is a local
system and has been around for at least 5 years. *Alt* hasn't been around
that long!

BTW, the first BBS was CBBS Chicago. It went online in 1978 and is still
up. The 4th is a local system which is *also* still up. It went online
in 1979 or 80. It's been the second oldest BBS ever since CBBS #2 and #3
went down (10 years ago?). Both CBBS/Chicago and CBBS/NW are no longer on
the original hardware or software. But they have naintained continuity.


-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 21:48:38 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>But it isn't.  On-topic advertising is not only not disliked, it is
>desired.   

>By and large, everybody else seems to like it or not mind it, and indeed
>they certainly like it more than pointless flame threads.  Any posting
>that gives me real factual information on my topic of interest is one
>I want to see, and I don't care if the poster happened to profit by it.

Indeed.  The combination of the announcement I made in rec.autos
regarding my new magazine, my .signature, the pretty regular discussion 
of same on the hotrod mailing list, mention here and there in other 
messages on the net and a vast word-of-mouth effort that extends to 
electronic forums I don't frequent has resulted in just a bit over 10,000 
requests for samples of my magazine AND a couple thousand subscriptions.  
I'm AMAZED where the Usenet reaches.

Like you Brad, the only complaints I've received about what I hope to
is perceived as tasteful advertising has come from those with 
a political agenda.

Anyone reading this "debate" should realize that those who bitch can
be counted on one hand.  That makes them an extreme, tiny minority.
Brian Reid's readership estimates probably mark the bottom end of 
net.readership.  I suspect the readership to be vastly larger.
Anything anyone does on the net will elicit a few bitches.  If advertising
is drawing no more protest than we've seen here, it must be quite
well received.

After all, if an advertisement makes the reader mad, he won't respond and
the ad will have failed for that reader.  What a concept.  The market
at work.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:45:11 GMT

>
>You see we just want free-flowing and unrestricted information and if
>that is somebody explaining how clever he is because he pirated some
>PC game or the company who's game he stole announcing the new low price
>we believe they deserve equal time.
>

Please use `we' with care.


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:59:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.215446.19393@lth.se> bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:
>>But it isn't.  On-topic advertising is not only not disliked, it is
>>desired. 
>
>Why then is biz.* so small?

I won't respond to the rest of this item because this debate has degenerated
and I suspect nobody's listening any more, however, the question of biz is
an important one.

Biz was a mistake.  At the time, the internet was entirely R&E, and concerns
over transmission of commercial information were higher.   The mistake was
to have only the two extremes -- no commercial postings in one hierarchy and
nothing but commercial postings in another.  More to the point, as a reaction
to the anti-commercial reactionaries, biz was to be completely without
guidelines on desired advertising.  People can post a weekly hype-filled
advertisment for their failing Detroit area BBS there if they want.  :-)

But nobody wants to read that.  And so be not just including, but in a
way emphasizing the worst parts of advertising, biz was very slow to get
off the ground.

No group addresses the middle ground -- what people want to see -- which is
interesting and useful information from *all* quarters.  What I care about
is if a posting is interesting and on topic, not the motives of the poster.

In fact, it didn't get really get off the ground until a strange political
battle caused the SCO oriented newsgroups to go there.  For unfathomable
reasons (looking back), even though there are many unix-vendor-dedicated groups
on the net, people got in a fuss about SCO, and a regular net group appeared.
There are a few other biz success groups, such as the ones for Telebit, and
my own.  But not many, and none are a big success.  I do know that in the
SCO and Telebit groups, people are very happy to see the participation of
people from those companies, and their postings of product information etc.

-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 10:00:06 GMT

galt%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu writes:

>There is no way to "ban" things on the net.

Just a point of clarification but I'm certain that Brad T. knows how
the network operates... still as an explanation to others who may
not have thought of flooding a mailbox with hate mail I believe it
has been helpful.

>I read misc.forsale.computers.other, and I like it because it is similar
>to reading the classifieds in a paper.  I would be very annoyed if major
>corporations started to flood it with ads for their products.

And this of course begs the question why would anybody want to read a
message saying "I have a used Hayes 2400 baud modem for sale, $75" from
a minor corporation or individual and not want to read "Hayes announces
the 2400 baud modem is now retailing for $49" ?

Perhaps the announcement from HP that their new SuperDuper Laser is
available next week at $1200 would make you think twice about the
purchase of that used HP-3 for $950.

You see we just want free-flowing and unrestricted information and if
that is somebody explaining how clever he is because he pirated some
PC game or the company who's came he stole announcing the new low price
we believe they deserve equal time.

tom

Newsgroups: news.admin.technical
From: ssdc!eseeger@uunet.UU.NET (Eric Seeger)
Subject: Question on running uucp over TCP?
Keywords: uucp deamons tcp
Organization: Sterling Software IMD, Vienna, Va.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:58:33 GMT

Question to the uucp experts:

   We recently received a netblazer/ST to gain access to the internet
network.  We now want to download our USENET news and mail over the 
active connection with uunet instead of the dialup modem connection that
we have always been using.  I have looked in the 'Managing UUCP and 
USENET' manual on how to reconfigure our system to make this happen.
Let me interupt and say that we have a Sun386i running SunOS 4.0.2 as
our host we use for the mail and news.  Now, when I changed the L.sys
file as shown in the manual for running uucp over TCP our systems UUCP
LOGFILE says there is 'no DEVICE'.  Further, investigation show that in
the /etc/services file there is an entry for the uucp service and port 540
but I'm not sure about the uucp deamon.  I am assuming there must be a
uucp deamon entry in the inetd.conf file, and if so, is that deamon resident
in the /usr/etc directory along with all the rest of the deamons in that file.
Is that a standard process with SunOS 4.0(+)??? because we don't seem to have
it on our system.  Because we don't have it, can we get it???, will it run on
the 386i systems???, is there public domain versions of this deamon or will 
we have to purchase it??? 

Thank you in advance for all those who reply!!!
-- 
Eric J. Seeger				Phone:	(703)356-3551
Sterling Software Inc.			 UUCP:  uunet!ssdc!eseeger
8000 Towers Crescent Dr.		 MAIL:  eseeger@ssdc.sterling.com
Vienna, VA. 22182			  FAX:  (703)821-1485

Newsgroups: news.admin.technical
From: markb@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Mark Bixby)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.b,news.software.nntp,news.software.readers
Subject: INN newbie has innd, nnrpd, trn interaction questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:32:09 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

I've just installed INN and I'm running it in parallel with my existing
CNews setup (separate spools & active/history/etc files) until I'm comfortable
with it.

The existing CNews setup feeds with CERFnet, and also permits the use of NNTP-
mode trn to access newsgroups not subscribed to on my local machine.  I'd like
to accomplish something similar under INN, but I'm confused.

The NNTP commands available from port 119 when running INN differ depending
on whether you're talking to innd or nnrpd.  The nnrpd command set is what
NNTP-mode trn requires to work properly, yet the innd command set is required
for innxmit to transmit my articles.  This prevents both feeding & trn from
coexisting peacefully.

I notice that innd supports a "mode reader" command to force the socket to
be handed off to nnrpd.  Therefore, if I get CERFnet to initially speak the
innd command set with me, I can innxmit just fine.  I could also use NNTP-mode
trn if I could convince it to issue a "mode reader" command right after
connecting to innd.

Has anybody out there solved this problem?  Am I overlooking anything obvious?
Trn 2.2 shouldn't be too hard to patch to try a "mode reader" command after
connection; I thought I'd ask first to save myself the trouble of re-inventing
the wheel.
From: jakirwi@relay.nswc.navy.mil (ea00)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical
Subject: Using 'checkgroups' command
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:34:58 GMT
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center


Hi all!

I am in the process of learning how to run the checkgroups
command to update my active file.  Could someone briefly go
over where the list of new newgroups is found and how the
process is implemented?  

Thanks!

Jean Kirwin

jakirwi@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.readers
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@unix.amherst.EDU>
Subject: Following up to x'ed groups
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:02:00 GMT

I'm running the performance release of C news.  A number of groups in
my active file (particularly in alt) are 'x'ed out.  Now, if someone
should crosspost to one of these groups (such as alt.non.sequitur) and
some groups that I *do* carry, the article arrives on my system.  If
someone here then follows up to that article, inews (I think) bails
out on attempting to post the message to the 'x'ed group ("newsgroup
may not be posted to locally").

This seems to me like mildly broken behavior.  Shouldn't the posting
mechanism post the article to the groups which *are* valid?  Should
the x'ed groups even show up in the Newsgroups line when an article
lands here?

Confused,

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 

Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:31:02 GMT

richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:

>Please use `we' with care.

:we:
pron. pl., possessive our or ours, objective us The nominative plural pronoun
 of the first person, used by the persons speaking or writing to denote
 themselves, by an individual to refer to himself or herself and one or
 more others, by an editor or other writer to give his words an impersonal
 character, or by a sovereign on formal occasions. [OE we]

I'm using the editorial use of "we".

tom

Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:10:39 GMT
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden

In article <1992Dec05.111920.25210@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>I don't know who said that argument.  USENET has been used for blatant
>commercial adverising for years.  

Brad says (in mail) that he means misc.forsale.*. We're talking Usenet
in general (discussion groups). 

>The most widely read groups continue to
>include several which contain nothing but ads, ads that people have to
>and do pay for when they are placed in magazines, journals and newspapers.

They don't pay for the ads if they don't buy the magazine for the ads.
Quite the opposite, in fact.

>Nothing legal is banned on
>USENET, because there are no rules at all.  So a ban on commercial
>advertising is as meaningless as a ban on stupid flames, though the latter
>would be far more beneficial.

Advertising may be disliked in one group/hierarchy and welcome in another.
And it is.

I guess next we'll hear you moaning that Unix discussions are "banned"
from rec.books or something equally silly.

-- 
Bengt Larsson - bengtl@maths.lth.se
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:08:53 GMT

bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:
>
>Naturally. It saves money for the advertiser, and for those who
>want the information in the ads. For the others, it costs money and time.

Bengt:  Everything except advertising on the net costs time and money
and earns money for nobody... is that your unit of measure for success ?

I can jack up the costs and add no additional value if you'd really like
a great network...

It re-ceased to be of interest and I'll accept responsibility for
replying to your posts.  It seems that we're at loggerheads and I will
never understand your position on "somebody making money".

Is it "benefits" or just cash benefits that anger you so much ?

Don't bother to answer either one is puzzle enough for me.

tom

Xref: sparky news.admin:8746 news.sysadmin:1561 news.groups:24233 alt.config:7884