HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: Belief and science (Einstein)
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:11:56 GMT

In article <Bxo0IB.H7y@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.174400.4716@guinness.idbsu.edu> holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:
>
>			..................
>
>>It is mathematically provable that the class of all true sentences in
>>a reasonable language is impossible to define in that language
>>(Tarski's Paradox).  In order to avoid this phenomenon, one has to
>>make the expressive capabilities of one's language _weaker_ (making
>>the language more expressive does not help!).  In particular, it can
>>be applied to ideas in the mind of God, as follows:
>
>			.....................
>
>This is the case if the language has only proofs of finite length.  Since
>we do not know how to do infinitary operations, although we can handle 
>some of them, we cannot be sure of what God can or cannot do.
>-- 
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
>Phone: (317)494-6054
>hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
>{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)

The argument works just as well with infinitary syntax, as long as the
lanaguage used is powerful enough to describe its own syntax (which
certainly seems likely in the Divine case).


-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alia only with Brith-Mila?
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:07:14 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)

In article <J5Z5TB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>1. What says the halacha for cases like these?
>2. Is there a way to let them be called to the Torah, even if they aren't
>   circumcized? 

The only required restriction for the uncircumcized male is he is not
permitted to partake of the pascal lamb, which we currently don't do
anyway.

However, the giving of an aliya is considered a matter of public honor,
and synagogues can adopt any rules they like in this regard.  I recall
some years back the SCJ outrage regarding a shul that required ties.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 23:17:18 GMT

In article <Bxv7C7.Esp@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>And when this is in fact proven beyond a reasonable doubt, as it was
>>in the Kahane case, and the jury decides nevertheless to acquit the
>>accused, where has the maximum possibility of a just solution gone to? 
>
>Al Date would probably say it was enhanced, but I'll let him argue that
>point.  I still argue the point that juries are as good as you are at
>deciding reasonable doubt, Jake.  The Nosair/Kahane verdict (we talked
>about this quite a bit at NYLS, since Kahane got his J.D. there) was
>probably a compromise verdict.  I admit that such things are unsatisfying,
>but not that they are proof of a failure in the system.

A "compromise verdict"?  With no other suspect, no other weapon and no
other motive, the jury decided that the guy who was caught in a
shootout with a policeman 100 seconds after Kahane was shot, who was
in the room at the time of the Kahane shooting and who owned the gun
used in the shootings that evening was "Not Guilty".  And you call
this a "Compromise"?  Would putting Hitler on probation for 60 days be
a compromise, too?

>>...when a jury finds something which is entirely out of
>>whack with common sense observations and even with detailed analysis,
>>free of the theatrics and manipulations of the courtroom, then the
>>"justice" system is missing out on justice by miles.  When this kind
>>of verdict becomes commonplace, the system is due for a major overhaul. 
>
>What non-theatrical, non-manipulative sources of fact are you using to
>decide the jury was wrong?  The Times?  TV?  Perhaps Usenet?  Come on,
>Jake, just what makes you so smart and the jury so dumb?

Yes, I have relied on the NY Times.  TV is pretty hopeless and I don't
bother with it and Usenet is an excellent source of mis-information.

The NY Times described Mr. Lewis's courtroom theatrics before the case
even went to the jury.  I have also heard this from people who were in
court.  Mr. Lewis picked fights on irrelevant items all the time with
the judge just to demonstrate to the jury that he, a Black lawyer, was
doing battle with the establishment justice system.  The jury, having
to rely on police testimony and evidence that had gone through the
hands of the police, as just about all evidence does, dismissed the
entirety of the White Police Force's court statements as racial
conspiracy. 

Are you still suggesting that the Kahane/Nosair jury decision which
the judge described as "bizarre" and the Nelson/Rosenbaum acquittal
came from "smart" jurors and that all the people who are offended and
even frightened by these "official" findings are dumb?  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: kolassa@genesee.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jonathan Pollard...
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:22:48 GMT
Reply-To: kolassa@genesee.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Organization: University of Rochester Biostatistics.

In article <92328.1352222893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (andy) writes:
> In article <1992Nov23.142402.4242@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hbb@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
> (harlan.b.braude) says:
> >
> >In article <1992Nov21.033922.27579@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M.
> >Solovay) writes:
> >>I don't know the legal definition, but my dictionary's first
> >>definition is
> >>
> >>   trea.son n  \'trez-*n\
> >>      1 : the betrayal of a trust : PERFIDY,
> >>          TREACHERY
> >Treason is also a legal term and I think it's the only crime mentioned
> >in the constitution. The legal definition, I've been told, specifically
> >addresses aiding an enemy of the US. There have been countries that have
> >been designated enemies of the US, but Israel is not among them.
> >
> >That being the case, the crime is not one of Treason.
> >--
> >Harlan B. Braude
> >hbb@karin.att.com
> 
> Rather than guess, I suggest someone look it up in a legal dictionary.
> Obviously the legal definition was good enough for a judge.
Article III of the US constitution:
      Section 3.  Treason against the United States shall consist only in
   levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving
   them aid and comfort.  No person shall be convicted of treason
   unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or
   on confession in open court.

Whether Pollard was guilty of espionage or not, it's pretty clear that
legally he didn't commit treason.
-- 
Thanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Spain
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:11:56 GMT
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front

In article <34eiuB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>  But there is something much more interesting than this. A Jewish friend
>  from Bolivia told me that in Bolivia there was a  JEWISH PRESIDENT
>  who governed from 1947-1949, and whose name was Enrique Hertzog.If this
>  would be true, than I think he would have been the only Jewish president
>  of a country (and a Catholic one!) that is not Israel.

I don't know about presidents, but Benjamin Disraeli served as
Queen Victoria's Prime Minister. As I recall, he refuse to swear
by the trinity when taking the oath of office.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:54:17 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: friedenb@case-l5.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)

In article <1992Nov17.201618.293@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@case-l5 (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>It can be proven that :    i(Pi)                          
>			  e	= -1      (Where Pi is 3.1415927....)

Pi is 3.1415926....  Rounding off the "...", you get 3.1415927.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: Belief and science (Einstein)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:25:32 GMT

In <Pine.3.05.9211142018.A22789-9100000@alsys1> Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu> writes:

>let me start by saying that i've never taken any courses in logic and
>pretty much know nothing about it.
>now then, isn't an assumption being made here that god is susceptible to
>logical analysis. or that god is susceptible to analysis at all. or that
>the human mind and human thought is capable of generating any concepts
>that are applicable to god at all?

This is an interesting idea and should not be quickly dismissed.  Either
we can reason about God, or we cannot.  To judge whether we can or cannot
we can only use reason and logic, we have nothing else. (I will mention
the irrational mystical experience shortly).

Now suppose that we use reason and logic, and decide that we cannot 
reason about God using reason and logic.  Then we are caught in a bind,
because we are now saying that the reason and logic that we used to 
come to that knowledge is not valid.  
Suppose on the other hand that we use reason and knowledge and come to
the conclusion that reason and logic are useful when reasoning about God.
This also causes a problem, because reason and logic are the criterion
by which we have decided reason and logic are useful tools to understand
God.  

The answer of many is to simply follow the "gut feeling" the non-rational
mystical experience of God that you have within you.  If that is the case, 
then it may be right, but you can forget criticising/reasoning with other 
people for having different mystical experiences of God than yourself, 
because the very process would not be given to rationalization, 
axiomatically.  

Reason/logic are the only tools we have if we are ever to agree with
each other, on anything.

>Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
>ness@aecom.yu.edu                      




--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:49:19 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: goy
 <1992Nov23.040258.28472@cs.albany.edu> <92327.2342272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1992Nov23.071119.3812@cbnews.cb.att.com>

I am well aware that the word "Jew" can be used in a derogatory way. Unlike
kike or hymie the word "Jew" is not intrinsically derogatory. The word "goy"
however is. After your presumptious rant, I don't expect you'll acknowledge
the difference but it is there nevertheless.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:05:46 GMT

In article <Af3dxIW00Vov4tRQM7@andrew.cmu.edu> "David A. Byler" <db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Ted Frank writes:
>
>>Eight of the ten largest international banks in the world are Japanese.
>>There are no Jews on any of their boards.  Jews are underrepresented
>>on the boards of the major banks based in New York City, which, to my
>>knowledge, have never had a Jewish CEO.
>
>Ever heard of the Rothschilds?  How about the Warburgs?

Please, tell me the relevance of either the Rothschilds or the Warburgs
to the ten largest international banks in the world.  Or to the major
banks based in New York City.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Welcome to s.c.j.
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:10:29 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

From amy@gaxx.Eng.Sun.COM Wed Nov 18 19:44:05 1992
Comments: Internet address: bimacs.cs.biu.ac.il. Bitnet address: bimacs.bitnet.
         Old internet address (bimacs.biu.ac.il) is available only temporarily.
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From: cramer@Eng.Sun.COM
To: am-yisrael@gaxx.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Husseini: establish relations with Israel so we can liquidate it
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:30:32 PST
Content-Length: 473
Status: R

Here's one you didn't see in the American press:

"We must force the Israeli society to establish mutual relations with a
society bigger than it [the Arabs].  That is, our Arab society, following
which it will be possible to gradually dissolve the Zionist entity."

        Faisal Husseini, speaking to the Arab Youth Club in Amman, Jordan,
        quoted in "Ha'aretz", 11/15/92

Some who reads tpm should post this quote there (after removing am-yisrael
mail headers, of course).

Sam

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: goy
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 15:54:29 GMT

In article <92327.2342272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>WHAT!!!! Jew is not a derogatory word, 

In many people's mouths, it is.

Ever heard of "Jewing someone down"? Do you take it as a compliment?

We should get Matt Harrington to post some more tales from his
childhood. They are instructive.


>goy is. 

Not in my family's tradition. We have always used it according to its
literal Yiddish meaning: non-Jew.

I don't see any reason why we should stop simply because some other
Jews give it negative connotations. 


>Would you not object to words like kyke, hymie, heeb etc?  

These words are different, in that they are directed at a particular
group.

Also, "kike" and "hymie" were always slurs. There is no legitimate
word behind any of these but Hebe.

You can call me a Hebe if you like. I will answer to it.


>Don't justify racist words by pointing at the racism of others.

You are the bigot here, condemning all Yiddish speakers on the basis
of the attitudes of some unspecified subset.

Goy is not a racist word.

My illustration was far from a justification of racism. It was an
illustration of how different people can use the same word
differently. A given word can be an insult from one person and a
compliment from another. The former use should not invalidate the
latter. 

--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:59:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.191208.28751@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>Isaac Balbin writes:
>>Stan Krieger writes:
>
>
>I really don't give a damn ...

That's what you should have put in the beginning of your post, so
everyone can just skip it. Because I really do give a damn what you
think and feel, so, I can understand things better and maybe try to open
your eys a little. That's the only reason why I even take time to write
all this. I do care alot about all Jews, that's jews - not goyim that
think they are jews, apperently you think by not "giving a damn" you care. 

>>Reality is something that hasn't hit YOU.
>>The Reality is that Orthodox Judaism will never accept new definitions
>>that are not halachikally mandated.
>>When that Reality hits you a few times you will cease wasting our time
>>by trying to convince us that we should accept every strain of
>>Judaism invented since Kingdom come.
>
>No, you don't have to accept every "strain"; all you have to accept is
>that your INTERPRETATION of what God expects of us is just one of
>SEVERAL valid, legitimate, interpretations.  As I've often said,
>if you don't want to recite Kaddish in a Conservative synagogue,
>that's your right, but it's not your right to advise someone that the
>mitzvah wasn't met because they recited Kaddish in a minyan of 6 other
>men and 3 or more women, nor is it your right to refer to the daughter
>of a women whose conversion to Judaism was handled by a Bet Din of
>Conservative Rabbis, and who is trying to get your son to notice her,
>as "the shikse".

Oh, great! Now Jews are taken away the right to advise another Jew about
Judaism. I am sorry, but does that imply that you can do whatever you
want and no one can tell you that it is wrong?

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Dawid Makowsky and Kach (was A message from Kach to ...)
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:11:50 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In: <1992Nov17.011724.20572@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) states towrds the end:

>In article <dfs.721958431@pulaski> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes
>
># From "Israel Line", 16 November, 1992:
>
># > Israel Radio, KOL YISRAEL, reports that a hand grenade exploded
># > this afternoon in a market in the Moslem Quarter of Jerusalem
># > killing a 70 year-old Arab and injuring 8 others.  Before the
># > incident, someone called a reporter from the newspaper HADASHOT,
># > saying that the Kach movement intended to stage an attack in
># > eastern Jerusalem. After the hand grenade had gone off, someone
># > again called the same journalist saying that the Kach movement was
># > taking responsibility for the grenade attack. The commander of the
># > Jerusalem Police said that an intensive investigation is being
># > conducted to find those responsible for the attack. No suspects
># > have yet been apprehended.
>
># Do the supporters of Kach on scj not see that cowardly terrorist
># attacks such as the above are the inevitable results of Kach's
># platform?
>
>	No, since it is not.  By the way, I ma not now, nor have I ever
>been, a member of Kach.

After having read a lot of David's  articles on the subject, I wish to
ask David:  Why are you  not a  member of Kach  now or were  one while
Kahane was still alive?

 Michael Shimshoni
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Minyanim in Morristown?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 12:19:11 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: stove.ai.cs.yale.edu



I'm going to be in Morristown this Sunday, and would like information about 
early minyanim there, including, if possible, times, phone numbers, and so
forth.  I need this info as soon as possible, as I'm leaving town (and email)
tommorrow (Friday).  Thanks all.

Enjoy!
	-Shlomo-

-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber)
Subject: Yom Kippur 5754 (in 1993)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:18:57 GMT

I understand Yom Kippur next year is on Shabbat.

1)  Can someone verify this (I haven't checked a calendar)?

2)  What are the rules regarding fasting in this case?

Thanks!


Jodi Weber
jodiweber@attmail.com   or   jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:07:47 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <92321.1423032893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

# In article <1992Nov15.074249.19028@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
# makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:

# >In article <dfs.721804269@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# ># makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# ># I have nothing in common with "andy", other than certain shared opinions
# ># and the same country of residence.  What "behaviour" is Mr. Makowsky
# ># complaining of?

# >        Your throwing around the term racism, which only goes to lower its
# >real meaning.
 
# And you do the same with the term Anti-Semitism. For a Jew to debase that term
# as you do is truly disgusting

	Please provide us with just one example where I did that.  Just
one.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:24:16 GMT

In <1992Nov16.033824.2594@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>I assume this is good advice, but as I understand it, it is
>permitted to use wool tzitzit even if the talit is linen.

I don't have the reference handy, either, but as I recall it's only
permitted to put wool tzitzit on a linen garment if one has a thread
of techelet in the tzitzit.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  23-Nov-1992 1355)
Subject: CYLOR (was: Kosher pork in the diabetic?)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 10:55:46 PST
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esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern) writes:

> Please CYLOR first, however.

tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) asks:

> What means CYLOR?

I believe it means Consult Your Local Orthodox Rabbi [i.e. for a Halachic
decision]

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Semiconductor Engineering Group 
Mailstop HLO2-3/D11 
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749  
(508) 568-4393 
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com