HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: AKC Papers
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:29:00 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Chris D Iacovelli writes:
> I committed the sin of buying a Boston Terrier from a pet shop. Before I
> get flamed, yes he was overpriced, yes I did not see the breeding parents to
> determine the temperment, and yes I know I probably have supported a
> puppy mill, BUT, he is so cute and affectionate that when I looked at him all
> of my defenses and sensibilities crumbled.


Without flaming you, as obviously it is far too late for that, you realize that
you fell right into their trap. I find it sad that you knew better yet you
still went ahead. I really hope you are one of the lucky ones.

>
> Not being a previous pedigree owner, I was wondering what these
> papers will represent?


A pedigree simply tells you the ancestry of a particular animal, it has nothing
to do with the quality or lack of quality of that animal, although a decent
pedigree will of course increase your chances of having a decent dog.

>
> Furthermore, how do I know that said papers are official?


Ha! There's the problem, you have absolutely no way of knowing. Many puppy mill
puppies have papers which are forged in one way or another.

Have you had the dog examined by a vet yet? Are there any health guarantees?
CAN you return the dog? If you can, I would give serious thought to it and go
out and find yourself a decent breeder...I assure you, a dog from a breeder
will be no less affectionate or cute than the dog you bought.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca    I cried because I had no shoes
or:      a4080@mindlink.bc.ca         Until I met a man who had no feet.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*                          - ???
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Jack.Smoke@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jack Smoke)
Subject: Irish Wolfhound Info, Please?
Organization: 3 legged Frisbee Dog & Demando cat, inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:58:10 GMT

I have two Border Collies, and am considering adding an Irish
Wolfhound to the pack.  My SO and I travelled to Tucson, and
visited Singing Swords kennel.  We were impressed by Sue Engel (the breeder),
and by her dogs.  Does anyone out there have a Singing Swords Wolfhound?
are there any other Kennels we should look at?
Sue is asking $650 for a pet quality puppy.  Is this high? 
(Jake and buster , our BC's only cost $250).

		-Smoke
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: cavallar@cyber.net (Mark A Cavallaro)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Advice needed - found New Zealand Heeler
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:01:03 GMT
Organization: The Cyberspace Station

Thanks in advance.
Mark Cavallaro
cavallar@cyber.net
:
:



:
::
From: kjt34420@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kristin J. Thommes)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Domination urination!?!?!?
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:37:49 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

simon@uinpla.npl.uiuc.edu writes:

>I have two dogs, both are mutts.  Suzie is 3 and dachshund-retriever
>mix and Stewart is 1 and a collie-shepeard mix.  Stewart likes to urinate
>where Suzie has, but twice now he does not want to wait until Suzie has
>finished. (I should mention we have had Suzie 2 years and we got Stewart
>in May). It looks to me like Stewart is trying to establish some dominance,
>but in all other interactions Suzie is mostly the dominant one.

>Any ideas?????????

It certainly sounds like a doninance war.  This is much more common in
male dogs, who somehow manage to save a little urine so they can cover
anybody else's that they may smell.  They also do this to establish an
area as their territory (why dogs tend to go around the perimeter of their
property).  All you can do really is just attempt to teach Stewart to NOT
go near Susie until after she is done.  Of course, that means that you will
need to follow the both of them around when they are outside.  It would
probably be best to put Stewart on a leash so that when Susie starts to go,
if he want to go towards her, you can give him a firm NO and use the leash
to back up your command.  This DOES work, but it takes awhile before he
will be able to go outside off the leash and without supervision with Susie.

--
From: mfriley@pacman.WPI.EDU (Margaret F Riley)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: pet peeves OR "what breed is that?"
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:54:05 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu

In article <1992Oct6.150707.14620@iti.org> jag@iti.org (Jacqueline A. Giles) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.134912.19413@sei.cmu.edu> krvw@sei.cmu.edu (Kenneth van Wyk) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct6.132131.23608@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, emm@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ellen.m.mcsorley) writes:
>>> ...
>>
>>YES!  I know exactly what you mean.  I took my Basset Hound puppy,
>>Elvis, to a college football game this weekend (we stayed outside the
>>game and ran around the soccer fields like a couple of maniacs), and
>>I'd say that over 50% of the people that ventured a guess as to what
>>type of dog Elvis is called him a Beagle.  Now, I have no objection to
>>Beagles - matter of fact, I like them - but _MY_ dog is a Basset
>>Hound.
>>
>With the many breeds in existance, it is hard to recognize all of
>them.  I go to shows alot and still don't know the various terriers
>and get some of the sporting dogs mixed up.  I think we all need to
>be patient with people that get our breeds wrong and be flattered
>that they notice our puppies at all!
>

I encourage my friends to not guess at breeds but to just ask, "what
breed is this?"   I find it much less annoying to just have someone ask
than to wait until they guess.  I also do this for breeds I don't recognize.

Margaret



Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:34:16 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

> Some are.  Sure.  Owner didn't train.  Owner didn't understand his
> commitment or responsibilities.  Owner didn't have a clue.  Happens
> all the time.
> 
> But other reasons common too: owner had to move, owner died, owner in
> jail, owner's girlfriend didn't like dog, owner has new baby and "no
> time for dog now", owner got tired of dog, owner got new furniture,
> landlord discovered dog (dogs weren't permitted in apt but owner got
> dog anyway, now no one to take dog).
> 
> And still other reasons, some we might have more sympathy for: owner
> developed allergy, owner lost job, owner had to go to England to care
> for sick child.  And so on.
> 
> -- Jon
> --
> Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  

All these reasons indicated above seem to be good reasons to, if you really
want a purebred dog, to buy from a REALLY reputable breeder.  Most breeders I
know would be appalled to find out a dog they bred ended up in a shelter for
any of the above reasons - they would much rather have the dog returned to them
and try to place the dog themselves, or at least help the owner in placing the
dog.


Holly
From: bglazier@buffalo.asd.sgi.com (Bill Glazier)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Raising dogs vs. children
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:57:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.


 Having a puppy is actually VERY GOOD
|> practice for having a kid. It'll show if you two can work 
|> together to bring up the dog correctly, which can then 
|> relate to children" We never thought we'd hear that
|> from a Pastor, although that's exactly what we were thinking.

Excellent advice.

|> 
|> Often folks will ask when we're going to have kids (gees, we've
|> only been married a few months over a year..impatient relatives!)
|> and then we get into "How puppies are better than children" discussions.
|> Our favorite responses are:
|> 
|> 1) You can't leave a kid alone in a crate for 4 hours at a time and
|> not get arrested.
|> 
|> 2) You can't take off for most of the day and just leave the kid a bowl of
|> food and a big bowl of water (this is after puppy has grown up, of course!).
|> 
|> 3) It takes more than a few weeks to potty train a kid. 
|> 
|> 4) Dogs grow up and are nearly mature after a year.
|> 
|> 5) Dogs don't beg for fancy clothes, car keys, or money.
|> 
|> 6) Dogs don't have to go to school  or college.
|> 
|> 7) Dogs don't talk back!
|> 
|> Those are a few, we have a whole list. Mind you, we don't mind kids,
|> we just dont' want any right now!!! :) Lots  of smiles included for 
|> the humor impaired....:-) :-)

Reasons why dogs are neat but kids are much better

10)  Dogs don't smile at you and make your heart melt

9)   Dogs don't look like their owners (at least mine don't)

8)   Dogs play a lousy game of baseball (they're great fielders but lousy at the
     plate)

7)   Dogs can't speak English or discuss politics

6)   Dogs can't have grandchildren

5)   Dogs can't attend your alma mater

4)   You can't go out for a beer with a dog

3)   You have no genetic similarity to your dog

2)   Dogs can't take care of you in your old age

1)   Dogs don't like being dressed up in cute outfits
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Stacey Curtis <sec@softserver.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Raising dogs vs. children (was: East Bay Regional Parks...)
Organization: University Of Canberra
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 02:54:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.194425.16806@cs.tulane.edu> Damon Feldman,
feldman@cs.tulane.edu writes:
>I hope this is not a widespread view throughout the dog-owning community.
>Very young children are similar in some ways to dogs, but they are
>developing in ways that no dog ever will.  For example, many beleive
>that a child's personality and conscience develop when very young.  If
>a child is rasied to be a stimulus-response machine, rather than
>having his or her understanding of morality and proper behavior
>developed, why would the child behave when there is no chance of
>getting caught?  This is the mentality that leads to Ivan Boeskeys and
>the like.
>
>What works for a Golden may work for a 2 year old in the short term,
>but this kind of "training" does not actively encourage the kind of
>behavior we expect from people throughout their lives.

Sorry, I don't know who Ivan Boeskeys is.  Please excuse my ignorance. 
What I was trying to get across is that parents of both dogs and young
children (up to around 3) have to make allowances for the motivational
behaviour of their charges.  IMO both dogs and kids (of that age) are
very ME oriented and driven.  They don't give a hoot about what effect
their actions have on the world around them.  Dogs will basically stay
the same way, but kids will, when taught correctly, develop the
realisation of their effect on other people and their responsibility
towards other people.  You should not punish kids for being kids, nor
should you punish dogs for being dogs.  The two can live together happily
providing that the parents recognise and acknowledge the responsiblity
that they, the parents, have accepted.

I am not saying that if a toddler sh*ts on the carpet you should rub it's
nose in it, but using this example, for the parent to get the child to
respond in a desirable manner  the motivation given to the kid is
basically the same that is required when dealing with a dog, praise for
good or correction for bad.  Both kids and dogs are reflectors of the
guidance given, especially when really young.  Just like there is no such
thing as a *bad* child only *inept* parental influence or unsuitable
guidance, there is also rarely  such thing as a bad dog only inept
handlers.  Whether the parents/guardians actively encourage the behaviour
or merely encourage it by ignoring it (hoping it will go away) and
allowing it to continue, the results are the effects of the parents input.

These are just my general observations from my own experience.  All
flames welcome.
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Tracking & Ants
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:12:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



(On what motivates the dog)
David Minturn writes:
>I guess I don't understand this statement.  All of the dogs we have trained
>are very eager to please us and after hours of training enjoy 
>doing the job for which they were trained to perform.  Tracking is the one
>area that the dogs really enjoy and the one sport where the dog is really
>in control.  We have always used very positive reenforcement training 
>methods, whether it be food or play toys, to keep the dogs motivated through
>the hard times.  I am very satisfied with the results we have gotten from
>these methods, my dog in particular, (Rottweiler, CH Blackwoods Bete Von

I was saying that the dog trained to track by forced retrieve comes out
a more eager tracker than the conventionally motivated dog, not that
you're not having success and good fun by motivating.

I don't quarrel with having a good time with your dogs, more power to
you.  From Koehler's point of view, you do not get reliable tracking
dogs if you depend on their desire to track or their desire to please -
it's just a matter of introducing distractions on the track to prove it,
ie. provide something else the dog would rather do, and he'll stop tracking.

So Koehler operates off the dog's sense of responsibility, and I was
saying that, after that's done, the dog is a more eager tracker than
the customarily-motivated dog - he enjoys his responsibility, he enjoys
working, he enjoys the difficulty of the track.  Ie., no distraction
or discomfort in the world interests him more, if you want to put it
that way.

He isn't tracking to please you, and never was.

Since the method (based on forced retrieve) doesn't depend on the
natural desire to please or the natural desire to track, it's
reliable on all dogs, natural trackers or not.

Distractions Koehler suggests as showing the reliability difference: a track
that starts in a picnic area;  a track that crosses rabbit droppings.
From: pgarnier@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Philip Garnier)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Rabbit turds
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:27:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvCIxC.6B3
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology

T00X000 <T00X@UNB.CA> writes:

>In article <_s0ny1.kudzu@netcom.com> kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio) writes:
>>In article <HOEFLING.92Sep24165511@sp28.csrd.uiuc.edu>
>>   hoefling@sp28.csrd.uiuc.edu (Jay Hoeflinger) writes:

>Interesting! I have a pet rabbit who lives in my house with
>the run of the basement. Both my dogs, Belgian Tervuren and
>English Springer X Terrier, just LOVE to eat my rabbit's
>droppings which she sometimes leaves on the floor when she
>gets overexcited (she is trained to a cat litter box) as
>when the dogs are playing with her. Sometimes I can smell
>it on the dogs' breath but I don't really discourage it.
>There does not seem to be any ill effects to the dogs but
>then again I know what I am feeding my bunny and it isn't
>anything I wouldn't feed my dogs.

We too have a pet rabbit and two dogs, border terriers.  We had the rabbit 
before we got the first puppy and were concerned about any predatory
instinct she might display toward the rabbit as she got older.  In other
words, we were afraid she might kill the rabbit.  It seems that our fears
were unfounded; despite going beserk over rabbits in the yard, our older
dog has never been interested in the rabbit as prey.  In fact, the rabbit
the older dog, and now the puppy have worked out a marvelous symbiotic
relationship:  in exchange for his seemingly delicious droppings, the dogs
let the rabbit mount them when he is feeling amorous!
From: mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu (Michael George Buening)
Subject: Re: Move the Pet Pop. debate?
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:21:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.132807.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>I don't want to be rude or anything, but I'm just wondering if maybe
>the Pet Population Legislation debate as it now stands could be moved
>to private email?  There seem only now to be 2 people involved in the
>debate, and the volume of their postings is kind of high, and it's 
>making it harder for me to get through the r.p.d postings on my system.
>
>Thanks,
>Holly

Since the two you are appearantly talking about are being rude them-
selves, then be rude.  I too think this discussion should be put in
the email realm.  I certainly have heard enough pure bickering in
this thread and not a lot of useful information.

			--Michael Buening
			internet:mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu
From: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer) 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Pet Peeves
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer) 

TO: saavik@mentor.cc.purdue.edu

MB(>I get that too.  Then again noboby realizes around here that all
MB(>collie's DON'T look like Lassie (thank goodness).  I've
MB(>been asked..
MB(>"oh is that a border collie?",  "Is that a long haired pitbul?",
MB(>"is that a Bernese something or other?", "That's a collie/?
MB(>mix?"  "So, exactly what kind of collie is that suppoed to be?"

MB(>ARRGGHHH--  It's a collie -- a LASSIE DOG! -- ARRGGHHH!!
MB(>Wait until I get my Blue-merle I've been waiting for.
MB(>I can just see the questions now --- Is that a Long haired
MB(>Dalmation!  :)

I can relate to that! Everyone, including the local police, dog catcher
etc...Think my Boxers and Bostons are Pit Bulls!! I get so tired of
explaining what they are and that they are *User Friendly*<G>

Kathleen.Brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . OLX 2.1 . If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.
                                                                                      
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Stacey Curtis <sec@softserver.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Has anyone else experienced something like this?
Organization: University Of Canberra
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 05:16:34 GMT

I met my husband through our dogs, another dog show romance.  When we
first started going out together his bitch, Malibu, an Alaskan Malamute
tolerated me, but basically ignored me.  After things got serious she
started to actively push me out of her dad's life.  The  most amazing
thing that she's done so far is to bury all my clothes in the backyard. 
She spent about a week working on this hole, she even got my own dogs to
help her, and then a week later we went out and the hole was covered
over, with just a sleeve of one of my shirts sticking out.  She had gone
through the laundry and ironing piles, taken clothes off the line and
even opened the closet door.  We were sharing the house with my
brother-in-law and his girlfriend and none of her clothes were touched. 
Other than this incident, Malibu's pushed me out of bed on countless
occasions, jumps on the chair that I'm about to sit in and pushes between
me and Hubby when we hug.  I've grown used to the fact that she doesn't
like me.  Has anyone else experienced something like this?

Stacey.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: kla@karen.webo.dg.com (Karen Plaskon)
Subject: Non-allergenic Dogs
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:53:10
Distribution: rec
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.

Hi all.  I'm looking for some information on dog breeds that tend to
be non-allergenic.  Also, what causes dogs to be allergenic?  I've
heard that in cats, it's the "dander" (combo of saliva, skin and
hair).  I've heard that poodles, and terrier-like dogs tend to cause
less allergies.  If I were to get a dog, however (which I'd like to!)
I'd prefer not to get a poodle or a terrier-looking dog.  
Please post me directly, as I could never keep up with the reading of
this group!  I'll summarize and post any interesting info I receive.
Thanx!
--

--  Karen

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karen L. Plaskon                        | karen_plaskon@dg.com 
Data General Corp.                      |
Network Systems Development Division    |
Open Network Systems Development        |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:18:31 GMT

> The dogs that are ``given up'' at around age two to the shelter,
> because ``they can't keep them,'' are the dogs that have finally
> become behavior problems.  What they wanted was a puppy, and it grew
> up and ceased to be cute.

Some are.  Sure.  Owner didn't train.  Owner didn't understand his
commitment or responsibilities.  Owner didn't have a clue.  Happens
all the time.

But other reasons common too: owner had to move, owner died, owner in
jail, owner's girlfriend didn't like dog, owner has new baby and "no
time for dog now", owner got tired of dog, owner got new furniture,
landlord discovered dog (dogs weren't permitted in apt but owner got
dog anyway, now no one to take dog).

And still other reasons, some we might have more sympathy for: owner
developed allergy, owner lost job, owner had to go to England to care
for sick child.  And so on.

Remaining common reason: dog is simply part of the unwanted pet
population, specifics not available or relevant.

I have seen every one of those reasons.

Training would have helped in most cases, was the critical issue in
many cases.  But not all.  A hard problem remains: too many dogs, too
many pets.

13 million pets arrived at shelters in US in 1991.  5 million
eventually found homes.  The other 8 million were euthanized.  Supply
is way ahead of demand.  It has been for some time.  And it can grow
geometrically where demand grows arithmetically.

Training is still a good thing.  Lack of it is still the reason why a
lot of dogs become unwanted.  But it's not the whole issue.  Some dogs
are unwanted even when trained, regardless of whether they're trained.
There are only so many homes.  The supply of dogs is simply too great.

> The humane thing to do, is SET AN EXAMPLE:  train your dog to excellence,

Good idea.  Will prevent a lot of dogs from going to the shelter.

Better idea: train your dog to excellence and encourage other owners
to do the same.  How?  Is there low cost training available in your
area?  Yes?  Put up fliers for it.  No?  Arrange it.  Either way, make
sure people know about it.  Make sure information about it is
available at your local shelters, humane societies, SPCAs, breed
rescue organizations, and so on.

Best idea: train your dog, encourage other owners to train theirs,
and stop contributing to the supply.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com