From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: why don't you just read soc.motss
Keywords: blah blah
Date: 7 Apr 92 20:37:39 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Apr7.020528.2632@wdl.loral.com>, bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (James Woodyatt) writes:
> In article <10338@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> |> In article <1992Apr3.050128.15157@wdl.loral.com>, bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (James Woodyatt) writes:
# |# # I was unaware that heterosexual rights activists had sponsored any
# |# # `Straight Pride' parades anywhere near me. I will *not* waste all
# |# # that petroleum to drive to Petaluma to watch yours.
# |# 
# |# I'm not aware of ANYONE having a "Straight Pride" parade -- but if
# |# they did, they certainly wouldn't include a group that supports
# |# adults having sex with kids in it.  Unlike the gay community.
# 
# No. It *probably* wouldn't -- but not for the reasons you are implying.
# 
# The `Gay Pride' parades in San Francisco (I'm not sure what the official
# name is) never invited the California Maritime Academy drill team or color
# guard to march in their parades (thereby allowing the Academy to avoid a
# controversy I'm sure it would have had on its hands), but I carried the
# flag in a lot of parades that had a lot of lunatic organizations marching
# along with us.

Why did you do it?

# I'm not even remotely familiar with the nuts and bolts of the organizations
# of `Gay Pride' parades, but if they're anything like the parades I'm
# familiar with, I'd be shocked to learn that their organizers actually
# went out and actively recruited NAMBLA to march in the parades. What seems
# much more believably is that NAMBLA applied for a position in the parade
# and were granted one for reasons I'm not going to speculate on here. Suffice

And posters in soc.motss have stated why: agreement; reluctance to
turn down any organization based on what they do; free speech (though
I'm sure that the Nazis wouldn't have been invited).

# to say that *I* don't feel comfortable alledging that it's because the
# organizers of the parade were all child molesters. That's a pretty ugly

Where did I allege that?  (Other than in your own mind, I mean?)

# allegation, and I would want at least two reliable sources of information
# who would be willing to testify on my behalf in court about it should I find
# myself slapped with a slander suit.

Why don't you respond to what I said, rather than what you WANTED me
to say?

# |# # The point I was making is that you seemed to me to be making the classic
# |# # blunder of conspiracy theorists -- you reached the conclusions you have
# |# # set out to reach by limiting your search for information too narrowly.
# |# 
# |# By asking people to demonstrate that the fundamentalists were wrong,
# |# and they insisted on proving that they were right about NAMBLA's
# |# support in the gay community?  I started out trying to disprove the
# |# position that I now argue for.
# 
# Exactly. Who did you ask? Did you get a reliable sample of knowledgeable
# people with diversity that is representative of the community you're trying
# to analyze? Or did you limit your sample to those people whom you haven't
# yet offended enough for them to ignore you no matter how persistent you
# become, and to those who derive enjoyment from arguing with you?
# 
# In other words, can I be excused for questioning the reliability of your
# methods? A study done by B.Y.U. with funding from private investors would
# have more credibility than you do with your `I've corresponded with a lot
# of them by email' line, and I'd question that as well.

All perfectly valid points to make -- except the question is still
being evaded -- if NAMBLA doesn't have at least a considerable body
of support in the gay community, why does it march in gay parades?
NAMBLA is about the worst possible group to have march in a gay parade,
considering the stereotypes of homosexuals as child molesters.  And
yet they still march.

# James Woodyatt  Space Systems/Loral   Palo Alto, CA   bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"The mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a
favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace
of God." -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections