HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:28:14 GMT

In article <C03G46.4B4@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In <1ht79qINN6dp@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>
>>> BBC put it best:  all the Equal Opportunity policies in world are useless
>>> if the _law_ doesn't allow you to use them.  And that's what Amendment 2
>>> does.
>
>>You really think HP would fire you in violation of their own EE statement? 
>
>It's possible.  In Georgia, I could seek relief in the court system.
>In Colorado I could not.

I don't see how this follows from CO2. If FooWare has an
anti-discrimination policy and they violate it, that's a breach
of contract, and I don't see how CO2 would prevent you from suing
successfully. Granted, CO2 prevents the law from *mandating*
non-0discrimination; but if a company sets up such a policy
voluntarily, they would be bound by it the same way they'd be
bound by any other agreements.

CO2 doesn't say anything about private antidiscrimination
agreements; it only talks about antidiscrimination *laws*, which
are government policies, not private ones.

Are their any lawyers out there who disagree? If so, what are my
mistakes?

Mind you, FooWare might be able to get away with discrimination
in *hiring*, since it would be discriminating against people with
whom it had made no agreement. But I don't see how it could
*fire* someone, in violation of an anti-discrimination policy,
without leaving itself open to a breach of contract/promise/
whatever suit.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 09:10:54 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <thaaang.724731801@cwis> <BznGzr.GHI@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
  <thaaang.725058794@cwis>

Thaaang writes:
>soc.lesbigay.black.velvet
>soc.lesbigay.gold.lame'
>soc.lesbigay.rust.gabardine
>soc.lesbigay.faded.denim
>soc.lesbigay.jade.silk
>soc.lesbigay.fuschia.spandex
>soc.lesbigay.leopard.mesh
>
>For starters, anyway...

Indeed.  At least "soc.lesbigay.faded.denim" is a good idea.

Now then, how about:

soc.lesbigay.plaid.flannel
soc.lesbigay.black.leather
soc.lesbigay.charcoal.latex
soc.lesbigay.grubby.union-suit
soc.lesbigay.chrome.studs


Tch, John.  Such a stereotypically exclusionary list you wrote.

 
() Nobody ever forgets where he buried a hatchet.
()      -- Kin Hubbard
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: todd@toolz.uucp (Todd Merriman)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Organization: Software Toolz, Inc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 01:44:08 GMT

It's sad that fashion dictates that women must hide behind a
mask of makeup to be "beautiful."  The idea that women are
attractive only when you cannot see their real selves is an 
idea perpetuated by men because (1) it support a multi-billion
dollar cosmetics industry owned mostly by men, and (2) it is
demeaning to women to not be able to be accepted as they really
are.  Thus, men are able to maintain a power structure that
obviously favors men and puts-down women; and makes lots of money
in the doing!   

As long as women continue to smear that ridiculous colored
stuff all over their faces, they cannot be taken seriously.

Don't even ask me what I think about high-heels!

Rember the "bra burning" of the 70's?  Maybe it's time to 
have a "makeup burning" of the 90's.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *********************
* Todd Merriman - Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the *
* 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          *
* UUCP: ...!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur's    *
* Internet:  todd%toolz.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu           * Mailing List      *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *********************

fortune: parody error.
From: 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman, Ball State University)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:12:28 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec20.065410.8579@macc.wisc.edu>, 
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> The proposed division will, I suspect, not markedly reduce
> the total volume, 

WE do need a division. I don't know about your guys, but I do not have
the time to wade through literally thousands of postings each day.

I've been reading motss for over 6 years and have seen it grow to an
immense group -- too large for me to take 3 hours out of my busy day to
wade through the piles of information looking for those of interest/help to me.

WE NEED different,specialized groups. At least one of which should be
moderated.

WE need:
*.politics
*.activism
*.misc
*.news

I, in turn, also support a change from MOTSS to either queer or lesbiangay.

I need the network of gay and lesbian people as a resource in my activist
duties. It's sad to say that I don't bother with motss half the time because of
the sheer volume.

David
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 15:04:39 GMT




I described dinner Wednesday night:
   >>|> It was, as they say, a somber meal.  Not.  Of course, with
   >>|> Steven Levine and Michael Siemon adding their humorless presences
   >>|> and long faces to the event, nobody had any fun at all.
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) added:
  >>I moped all through dinner, through cocktails with
  >>Steven and Dave, and through looking-at-motss-photos.
  >>In fact, I'm *still* downcast!
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
 >Now see? That's what I hate the most about living in podunky ol' Omaha.
 >I'm always so *cheerful*! Noone ever comes here, so I have no chance to
 >get good and miserable like the people in New York, who always have
 >strange and exotic people coming from all over the United States to make
 >them feel unhappy. I haven't been depressed by a visitor for months. It's
 >just not fair.

I understood (from some conversation at that dinner) that you'd been
invited to go depress the Minnesotans but that you'd snubbed them.
(I hope your fathers are attending to this.  I think they ought to
attend to your upbringing.)



-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: soc.cabal.*
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 23:40:49 GMT



bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) plays the "straight man" for the
first and only time in his life:
>One time I was behind by *4000*
>messages and just had to mark them all read.

lsg001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Graham Wilson) writes:
>** I am sure you are now feeling very guilty for not reading the 
>   messages. If this guilt is too strong I am sure someone on the net can
>   send you the appropriate messages for you to read as penance over the
>   holidays (B-)

If I had read your message, which I didn't, I'm sure I wouldn't have
read what you didn't write.  Like Cabal carols...

   Four thousand posts I marked as read
   on Christmas Day in newsgroups gay
   four thousand posts I marked as read
   on Christmas Day in the morning.

   And what was in those posts unread
   on Christmas Day in newsgroups gay
   and what was in those posts unread
   in newsgroups gay in the morning?

   Twee, Lego blocks and cheese Louise
   on Christmas Day in newsgroups gay
   twee, Lego blocks and cheese Louise
   in newsgroups gay in the morning.

   And all the thaaangs on Earth shall scream
   on Christmas Day in newsgroups gay
   and all the thaaangs on Earth shall scream
   on Christmas day in the morning.

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>There's a rumor (nothing more) that there's a special type
>of pod for this.

...or New Year's recipes from the Betty Cabalista Cookbook...

   Black-Eyed Pods

      Don't add 1 dried black-eyed pod to 400 gallons of water or bring
      to a boil in a large covered cauldron.  After not boiling for
      2 hours, don't remove from heat or let stand for one hour.
      Then pretend to add:
        1 1/2 gallons chopped onions
          1/2 cup pepper
          1/4 cup crushed dried red pepper
            1 minced garlic bulb
            1 bay leaf.

      After not bringing it to a boil again, don't cover or simmer
      for an hour or stir occasionally.  Then don't add 2 lb. coarsely 
      chopped salt pork or simmer for another hour uncovered.
      Don't remove the salt pork and bay leaf you didn't add.  Pretend
      to slightly mash the pod and season to taste.  Serves none.

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) chides:
>If there were a cabal it would have to address this matter.

If there were a cabal, that address would be:

   Not the Cabal
   69 Pseudonym Street
   Fnord, CA
   94131

-- 
Brent Capps                          |        follow your bliss
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    |       ignorance is bliss
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |   ergo, following is ignorance
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:13:39 GMT

> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>> My own employer, though exemplary in many ways, professes not
>> to discriminate on the basis of marital status, yet
>> compensates married employees more than unmarried employees,
>> by offering significant company benefits to the partners of
>> married employees, but few to the partners of unmarried ones.
>
>If I'm following you right, you mean a married person can have 
>his spouse/dependants on his insurance, but a single person 
>can't have his roommate/unmarried SO on it?...

If by insurance you mean Health Plan, yes.

>                                           ...Any other bennies 
>that the married people get better?  ie, can you explain in 
>more detail the discrepencies? 

My employer does includes "other adult member of household" in
its Management Relocation Plan and Bereavement and Family Leave
Plans.  It has also recently added a "cash out" option to its
Survivor Pension plan, which would otherwise go only to a
surviving legal spouse.  But other employers don't usually
offer these benefits to unmarried partners.  And bennies like
Tuition Aid, gym membership, credit union membership, special
life insurance group rates, for example, are usually not made
available to unmarried partners (and their dependants)...
in

>> And this doesn't even address lower payment of single
>> employees.  
>
>When I was single, I didn't have a problem with married 
>people at my same level getting paid more; I figured they 
>needed it, as they had more responsibilities to take care 
>of.  I don't know that this is really an EE issue. 

But they don't always have "more responsibilities."  If they
don't have children and their spouse is also working, why
should they get more compensation than their single counterparts?
Why does the company arbitrarily decide who "needs it" and
who deosn't, merely on the basis of a marriage certificate?
>
>> Pacific Telesis Group also says it won't
>> discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, but gives
>> corporate contributions to the Boy Scouts of America, who do.
>
>Yeah, I have a neighbor who tore up and threw away his Levi's 
>because Levi's contributes to the Boy Scouts....seems pretty 
>silly to me...

Actually, he probably did it because Levi *cut off* funding
the Boy Scouts because their discriminatory practices were
in conflict with Levi's requirements for corporate contributions.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:28:16 GMT

In <1992Dec20.231739.8064@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>How did you discover soc.motss? Did you find it at the same time you
>found Usenet, or later?

Back when I first gained access to Usenet (around 1988) my best friend
(straight, first person I came out to) e-mailed me a list of groups
he thought I might be interested in.  Amongst them was soc.motss (took
me a few days to find out what `motss' meant.)  I started posting
about a month or so later and haven't turned back since.  I've
learned so much here about the diversity of our culture.  Everyone
should have Usenet access.
-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
   I can't even *think straight! |    Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:59:17 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) wrote:
> 
>Maybe it's just a straight couple thing, but I-- ahem-- have it on
>good authority that there comes a point for some couples where they
>get past this point by finding weekly rituals.  You know-- Tuesday
>night is always Chinese from the restaurant on the corner.

This may just be the scientific way of solving this problem, but since
we never came up with anything that works like BBC suggested, we simply
decided to alternate days or weeks, one deciding one time, one the next.
This method has never failed.

>It means that you have to go through the "Idunno,whatdoYOUwant..."
>routine six nights a week, tops.

And after a number of years, there are always the times where the individuals
are left to fend for themselves as one or the other is off doing his or 
her own thing.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Apples and oranges was Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:34:14 GMT

In article <NNBRwB4w164w@cellar.org>
     rica@cellar.org (Rica Fredrickson) writes:

>solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:

>> In a hundred years, it may be the same for homosexuality (and, of
>> course, heterosexuality). People who feel uncomfortable about
>> their orientation might be able to change it at will. For that
>> matter, they may be able to change their left-or-right

>Mmm, I think you're comparing apples and oranges.  Changing sexual
>orientation would be more analogous to changing the underlying
>psychological gender identity.

   Perhaps.  I think Andrew is talking about the indicators that there
are apparently physiological indicators (and possibly causations) of
homosexuality, and if these causations can be re-aligned to appear
heterosexual, perhaps homosexuality can be "altered" (I will NOT use
the word "cured") to heterosexuality.  And the brain can also be wired
the other way as well, too.

   Both require a physical alteration to the human anatomy.  I didn't
read it so much as a comparison of behaviors as a comparison of
procedures.

   All of which is damned silly.  I like what I am and I don't need
"curing," "fixing" or even "alteration" (except maybe of my drapes).

         Elf !!!
--
elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg)

Then, I was inspired.               God, thy will is hard
Now, I'm sad and tired.             But you hold every card.
Listen, surely I've exceeded        I will drink your cup of poison.
Expectations.                       Nail me to your cross and break me.
Tried for three years,              Bleed me, beat me.
Seems like thirty.                  Kill me.
Could you ask as much               Take me now.
From any other man?                 Before I change my mind.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: Origin of Straight = Heterosexual
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:53:50 GMT


I lost Liz Highleyman's original article asking about the
origins of this usage...sorry, Liz.

In the *faaabulous* Partridge's Concise Dictionary of Slang
and Unconventional English (thanks again. Santa :-)), one
finds these entries:

    straight, n. ... -- 3. A heterosexual person: homosexuals'
    : later C.20; adopted ex US...

    straight, adj. Not homosexual: Brit. and US homosexuals'
    -- 2. Not using drugs: addicts' and hippies' and their
    like: since ca. 1960.  (Fryer, 1967.)...

The Fryer reference is to an article by one Peter F. Fryer,
printed in the (London) Observer's color supplement on
December 3, 1967, entitled "A Toz of 'Zowie'"
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: Oak Road Systems, Cleveland Ohio USA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:22:10 GMT

In article <18230@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.125552.21333@vpnet.chi.il.us>, lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky) writes:
> 
>>     You don't think that soc.motss is the *only* newsgroup that suffers
>>     from this sort of problem, do you, Owen?  I'm sorry, but it goes
>>     with the territory.  We just have to deal with it, that's all.
>
>No I don't imagine that we are the only newsgroup to have problems
>with molesters, and I understand that we must deal with it.
>I was asking for some input regarding the map of the territory, and the 
>rules of engagement.

In my opinion, the only way to win such an engagement is not to have
one.  In other words, once you've identified someone to your
satisfaction as a mindless phobe, put him (it nearly always IS a him)
in your kill file.  Lady knows there's enough to read in soc.motss
without reading what Clayhead and his occasional brethren have to say.

They thrive on an audience, and get their kicks from posting _one_
article that _many_ people waste hours responding to.  When ignored,
they go away.  Even if they don't go away, in their kill files they
aren't bothering you any more.  (Some people argue that the venom
Claybaby spews has to be answered lest new folks believe he is spouting
truth.  His postings don't _all_ look absurd on their face, but enough
of them do that he can't really fool anyone for long, unless that person
is irredeemably twisted by homophobia to start with.)

I am assuming that polite requests to postmaster or root at the
offenders' addresses have had no effect.  Some sites are quite good at
policing egregious netiquette violations when called to their attention;
other site administrators don't care or may even agree with the phobes.

-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                      brown@Ncoast.ORG
"If you click on its capital, Ouagadougou, you'll hear its name
pronounced--in this instance, a most helpful feature."  
                                  --PC Magazine, 92/12/22, pg 352
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: 50 most popular motss.pix photos 10/21-12/26/92
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:14:05 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Here are the 50 most-frequently-retrieved photos in the motss archive
>from the period 10/21/92 to 12/26/92.  As I said in the first report,
>this isn't a popularity contest as much as a curiosity contest.
>Also, not to claim that these folks are any less curious-making
>than the others, but there is a definite bias for people whose names
>begin with 'a', as you might expect from casual browsing.  Nonetheless,
>I think you'll find that the results are still interesting to note.

*sigh* I _KNEW_ I shouldn't have worn that damned hat and let Steve take
the picture! Bryan, have you submittied any new ones, yet?

Or maybe everyone has already seen my GIF. Yeah, that *MUST* be it. :-)

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE
The Lyrics Transcription Project: Cocteau Twins Division, section 319
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Tampa update
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:51:40 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>The Florida Supreme Court has scheduled oral hearings for May 6 in the
>case to overturn the Tampa referendum.  The city of Tampa and its elections
>bureau are fighting this on our side.  More when it happens...

On what grounds are they going to overturn the repeal? The fact that the thing
was illegally put on the ballot?

Or do you think they will go as far to say that Florida's constitution says
that you can't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation? That WOULD
be a leap!
x
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
0.5% of all homosexual marriages in Denmark end in divorce. [O.C. _Blade_]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Alan Alda! Kate Millet! (was Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty))
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:07:25 GMT

In article <mattm-231292133917@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Excuse, please - but *who* is Kate Millet?

Millett.  She writes books.  Why do you ask?

>*X*
>(can we talk about Mel Gibson instead?)

No.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction (actually Delany)
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:40:55 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

Steve Dyer:
> 
> I think that almost all current SF/fantasy writing is simply TV for
> the semi-literate, and Delany's work in this genre hasn't made me
> change my mind.

Well which of Delany's books have you read, Steve? Do tell.

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Subject: Re: My 5-year HS Reunion... the results!
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:41:58 GMT

In article <168CC1E2.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
>In article <1hon97INNc79@sdl.Warren.MENTORG.COM>
>tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
> 
>(A lot of way cool and extremely encouraging stuff about Tom's HS reunion
>deleted...)
>My 10-year class reunion is in a couple of years. I graduated with 125
   [....] 
   
   indeed, I found his recount interesting and fun to read.
   My own high school reunion would be 20 years imminently, and
   *which* one would I attend?  Plus, of course, I never was
   a senior, so that's a problem too.  (But there was that *Schendel*
   boy, and who could say no?)

   [....]
>one of my best
>friends was the head cheerleader (I know, I can barely believe it myself
>these days). If I come out, will she do the OhmigoddidIeverundressin-
>frontofherataslumberparty routine? Should I care about her peace of

   She will be reminiscing in secret pleasure...particularly if 
   she's still married to that formerly yummy football quarterback 
   she thought was such a delight.


   Wayne

Newsgroups: soc.motss