HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:20:03 GMT

In article <61NU02.A2f3901@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:

|> My family got *FUCKED* over here and I live here.  The way black folks were
|> treated 30 years ago mild?  Well let's see, black men hung for dating white 
|> women in the south.  Civil Rights workers disappear while driving down
|> country roads, etc.   the list goes on.

Many many blacks and black aiding whites were killed by whites. Many whites
were killed by blacks. All were murders and all were crimes. Pointing to
the existence of crime by whites in the south as an indictment of whites,
is like punishing the blacks in NYC because they had a higher crime rate. It is
rediculous and racist.

Jason W. Solinsky
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5464 alt.politics.correct:6048 alt.president.clinton:1277 talk.politics.misc:65439
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
From: gpriores@oracle.com (gordon prioreschi)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Organization: Oracle Corp., Belmont CA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:43:45 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1h53p2INNqpq@spim.mti.sgi.com> mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen) writes:
>Actually, South Africa is a precedent for a society which bases everything
>on protecting the power of a racial minority.  AA will be needed to protect
>whites by the year 2010.

The underlying assumption here is, of course, that AA is
"automatically" needed to protect every minority group.

Not to mention that I will bet you dollars to donuts that the moment
somebody advocates affirmative action to protect _whites_ is the
moment we hear the first anti-AA sentiments from certain segments of
the liberal camp.

                                 Cordially,

                                      -g
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5431 alt.politics.correct:6020 alt.president.clinton:1219 talk.politics.misc:65031
From: mpolen@suntory.mti.sgi.com (Mike Polen)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Date: 21 Dec 1992 19:07:03 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: suntory.mti.sgi.com

Dr. Norman J. LaFave) writes:
|> jimbo@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
|> >A Clinton quote after the "economic summit" was "We don't have all the
|> >answers and we probably never will".  I'm glad 43% of the American
|> >electorate voted for someone who admits he doesn't have the answers.
|> >I'm not sure he evens knows the question.  What utter incompetence.
|> 
|> I'm sorry, but this is the most idiotic statement made on the net in
|> weeks. The author even has the operative word to shoot himself in
|> the foot with in his posting! The operative word is "all"---we don't have
|> "all" the answers. Anybody who tells you that they HAVE all the answers
|> for our complicated economic and social ills is more than incompetant
|> ---they are lying or stupid.
|> 
|> Get a clue before you post.
|> 
But jimbo is at Stanford.  He has the luxury of having "all" the 
answers.  Must be nice.

-- 
These opinions are usually my own, sometimes my dog's,
occasionaly my (grown) children's, never my employer's.
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5483 talk.politics.misc:65995
From: robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:22:07 GMT
Organization: a gora

>>
>>In any case, I would think that those opposed to granting "special"
>>rights to gays would still insist that legal marriage for gays is a
>>"special" right.


  Legal marriage for anyone is a special right.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: American Colonization Society
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:50:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa,local

| ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
| >  Go back to africa is not that old [400 yrs].  I had to hear it throughout high school
| >  when neither myself or many whites were familiar with what Africa was all
| >  about.  So what has happened to that phrase?  Are whites afraid it might
| >  come true?  

American Colonization Society, 1817+, declining after 1840.  Designed
to transport free blacks back to africa.  It was attacked by
abolitionists and not popular with blacks, but it did transport
11,000 to 15,000  blacks before 1860 to Liberia (est 1822 or so).

The arriving blacks promptly oppressed the people they found living 
there.  Liberia was controlled until about 1980 by american descendents,
and they still weild considerable influence.

Liberia was most recently in the news due to its civil war.

Mass migration back to Africa is simply not viable -- something
noted by Toqueville about 150 years ago.  There are too many
blacks in the US for this to be viable.  Nor would hardly anyone
wish to leave.  The Boyz in the hood live a middle class life 
style by Egyptian standards, and that is far better than the
black african states.  Further, most blacks do better than
the hood, many far better.

As to whites being afraid it would come true, every bonified racist
would jump for joy and the rest would point out you are free to
do what you wish.  The only group hating to see them go would be
professional statists and the democratic party leadership.  Your 
perception of the relative size of those three groups will probably 
differ from mine.

Have a nice day.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5466 soc.culture.african.american:13290 misc.education:5569
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:24:32 GMT
	<1992Dec21.015256.18920@samba.oit.unc.edu>
	<92356.084627KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
	<1992Dec24.045608.14245@samba.oit.unc.edu>
	<92363.071414KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: pop-tarts.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu's message of 28 Dec 92 12:14:14 GMT

Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) says:
|>Not true.  A classic case is their study of mortage applications. Over 5.3
|>millions mortgage application were examined and not one, not a single case
|>was found in these over 5.3 million applications where an applicant was
|>denied a mortage because their race. And is this how the government reported
|>the results? No, they cooked the data to introduce a racial bais, one
|>that poor Blaks receive fewer loans than wealthy Caucasians (with the
|>terms "poor" and "wealthy" omitted, to save on printing costs no doubt).

This simply isn't true, I'm afraid.  Just two months ago, the Boston
branch of the Federal Reserve Bank completed a study of loan
applications where they used all *39* official attributes that lending
institutions use to evaluate potential lendees and found that with all
things being equal, Blacks and Hispanics were less likely than their
White counterparts to get a loan.

This was the first study of its kind to use all these 39 attributes.
Prior studies simply used income and value of a home (they tended to
study mortgages).

In short, you are completely wrong.  In fact, your assertion that
"they cooked the data to introduce a racial bais, one that poor Blaks
receive fewer loans than wealthy Caucasians" is painfully false.  Even
the early studies controlled for wealth and assets.  And since the
reports I've seen and/or read about have always gone to great pains to
show this, I am forced to wonder whether you are either completely
insane, purposefully ignorant and/or intentionally lying.



--
Peace.
            "Look! An X-man movie's coming out!"
                    care of a 10 year old in a Tulsa movie
                    theater, looking at a poster for _Malcolm X_
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5434 soc.culture.african.american:13172 misc.education:5483
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead. At least Not in Clinton's cabinet!
Keywords: quotas
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 00:18:30 GMT

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5446 soc.culture.african.american:13212 misc.education:5519
From: KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Parks attempts to respond and doesn't!!!!
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:10:33 GMT
 <92350.073025KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu><BzoKAx.5zI@agora.rain.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Penn State University

In article <BzoKAx.5zI@agora.rain.com>, robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) says:
>
>In article <92350.073025KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Dec15.012737.19706@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
>>Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) says:
>>>
>>>>Would you PLEASE explain why you insist on spelling "black" as "blak"?
>>>
>>>I don't.
>>>
>>>
>>  As you can see, our own Ms. Parks has responded to the question with her
>>usual straight forward answer that gets to the heart of the matter.  In other
>>words, she still hasn't answered the question!  In the post following this   ,
>one
>> she continues to use a spelling of the word I can not find in any
>dictionary,
>>or reference book.  I realize that the exalted Terry Parks knows all, but if
>>she is going to make up her own language, and use it on a public network, the
>>least she could do is to explain it to us!
>
>
>  In the past, someone on soc.culture.african said that "blak" was the
>proper Afrocentric spelling.

  As a regular reader of the soc.culture.african, and as a Black (with a "c")
man, I haven't seen this anywhere.  There is one former poster who used the
spelling, but he, by no means is the authority on Afrocentric spellings or
what nots. The same person spelled "America" as "Amerikkka", does that mean
that the rest of you are going to follow that lead also.  I think I speak for
a lot of people on the network by saying that we prefer the typical spelling
of the word "Black" and not something that someone calls "Afrocentric"!
Kevin
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:37:09 GMT

>   Again Terry misrepresents what is written.  I didn't exclude any facts from
>the orignial post as Terry tries to state in the beginning of this.  The
>original post referred to a Labor Department study on hiring practice, and
>somehow Terry gets to a study on Mortgates.

The study on mortgages refutes the claim that government studies are
not biased to be Politically Correct. Given that is has been established
that in today's society, the government does inject such bias, that
a study was done by the government does not give it a defacto seal of
correctness.

>She stated that the original
>study had to be incorrect even though her un-biased eyes never saw the actual
>study.  A great example of her scholarlyness.

Exactly. The fact that the details of the study continue to be repeatly
kept secret defines it as suspect. As we see here in a second attempt,
rather than dispute my claim with facts, the typical attempted character
assassination of the pro-racism side in employed. Since it would be
so easy to dispute my claim with the details of this study, keeping
them secret enforces my claim that the specifics of the study are
flaw as with the government's mortgage study.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:46:11 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Dec26.224752.18866@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
> In article <BzGL99.IHz@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:
> 
> >Or again, how about the Spanish-American war of 1898? At that time
> >one of our battleships, the Maine, blew up and sank while docked
> >in the harbor at Havana, Cuba. The newspapers sounded the alarm.
> >The Cubans had attacked our ship! "Remember the Maine!" became
> >our battle cry and we went to war. Later, of course, it turned
> >out that we had sunk our own ship so as to stir up the populace
> >and give us an excuse to once more go to war.
> 
> Mr. Redman, this is a lie.  I challenge you to provide supporting
> documentation.
> 

Not entirely. Go to a library and look up references to the USS Maine over
the last few years. I do not have my references handy but, as I remember, the
Maine exploded due to an internal fire in the coal bunkers that (I think) blew
the magazines. It is commonly accepted that the loss of the Maine was due to
an accident and not to Spanish action. However, the statement that "we sunk
our own ship to stir up the populace" is incorrect. I think there was some
suspicions on the part of the USN that the loss was not due to Spanish 
action but the yellow press lead by Hearst wanted war and raised the cry of
"Remember the Maine" and lead the drive to war. 




-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:31:45 GMT

>>>1.  Union seniority rules

>>Could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
>>preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
>Caucasian worker?

>It doesn't.  However, Blacks are more likely to be more recently hired
>than Whites.

I thought the party line was that whites are 3 to 5 times more likely to
be hired than blacks. It would better serve the pro-racism forces to
get their propaganda in sync.

>>>2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>>>skill, low wage work.

>>So some Blaks engage in low skill, low wage work and some Caucasians
>>engage in low skill, low wage work. Given that far more Caucasians live
>>in poverty, how does adversity for the poor benefit them?

>Terry, please learn to read.  I never said that adversity for the poor
>benefited Caucasians.  Also, you really do need to look at percentages
>here.

Why? With far more Caucasians living in proverty than Blaks, having any
race bias in aid to the needy be given to Caucasians would have the
most beneficial effect.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5470 soc.culture.african.american:13315 misc.education:5575
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:19:46 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Terry Parks won't tell us the name of the study!
Distribution: usa
 <92363.071414KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <ISBELL.92Dec28142432@pop-tarts.ai.mit.edu>
 <1992Dec29.025924.21426@samba.oit.unc.edu>

I have asked Terry Parks on the network and in an e-mail message to cite the
study that she asserts the government "cooked" data for their own porposes.
As usual, when asked to cite her works, she ignores the request!  Come on Terry
are you afraid of being right, or are you outright lying as someone else has
stated?  Give us the citation for the study, I am sure there are some news
agencies that I know and a place called the GAO who would be very interested in
a study in which the government "cooked" data.  Come on Terry, this is your
chance to on "Nightline" as the person who broke the story!  This is no
"liberal pro-racism" attack, it is a simple request for a citation of your
study that you cite on the network.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,talk.politics.misc
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Affirmative Action should be Dead
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:48:27 GMT

> AA is needed because whites still hire whites at the
> expense of more qualified Blacks.

And I suppose AB is needed because whites hire blacks at the expense
of more qualified whites and AC is needed because blacks hire whites at
the expense of more qualified blacks and AD is needed because blacks hire
blacks at the expense of more qualified whites. Mandating the hiring of
people because of their race as AA does is an illogical solution to
a belief that some people were hired because of their race.

> The doors of opportunity are still closed
> for Blacks in many areas and many professions.

Could you name any of these mythical areas and professions? There are
(unfortunately) many race based opportunities but all of them are
denied Caucasians and not Blaks.

> Hopefully whites will see the
> problem with some of their hiring practices before too long.

I guess you couldn't kept your racist insights to yourself.

> AA is a good idea and if done correctly, does a lot of good.

Such as? Deny hard-working, deserving people employment? AA benefits
racists and unqualified "minorities" and women, at the expense of
everyone else, especially non-racists and hard-working people.

> Quotas are not part of the AA  statutes, but some people use 
> quotas because they don't know the statute.

Could you name one AA program which doesn't employ quotas?

> AA will never be used to protect white people because white people, at least
> in the foreseeable future, will control the businesses and the government, so
> there will be no need for AA for whites.

Today, "white people" in fact, do not control businesses and the
government. Millions of these "white people" live in poverty. The truth
is that not one is eligible for AA race preferences which are instead
provided to millionare "minorities".

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5485 soc.culture.african.american:13390 misc.education:5612
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:00:05 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <61NU02.A2f3901@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp
>(Michael Friedman) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu>
>>ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

>>>  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 

>>1.  Union seniority rules
>>2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>>skill, low wage work.

>But why are black folks the ones with little senority and low skill
>work.

Because of past racism and present stupidity.

>You talk about how your grandparents came here and made a life.

No I didn't.  My parents came.

>The were 
>screwed over in Romania, not here in the US.  We are talking about here,*NOT* 
>Romania.  If you got problems with how they were treated take it up with the 
>Gov't of Romania.

>My family got *FUCKED* over here and I live here. 

So what?  You know damned well that reparations aren't in the cards so
why does it matter where our ancestors got fucked?

>The way black folks were
>treated 30 years ago mild?  Well let's see, black men hung for dating white 
>women in the south.  Civil Rights workers disappear while driving down
>country roads, etc.   the list goes on.

Sure.  So?  It was mild compared to what other suffered.  Try
complaining about that to a Cambodian or Vietnamese.  Watch them laugh
in your face.

>The reason why black folks are the hardest hit during hard econi=omic times is
>due to the Jum Crow laws ad unwritten rules that wouldn't let us into the 
>unions, the colleges, etc.  So if you leave the unions like they are, ie.
>last hired - first fired, then black folks will continue to get screwed over.

Sure.  So?  These things are gone.  What are you going to do tomorrow?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: quotas
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:41:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.025537.4756@leland.Stanford.EDU> jimbo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Godfather of Soul) writes:
>In article <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes:

>>  The Clinton administration should provide a test of this type of policy,
>>as he seems intent on getting a quota cabinet.  He says it should look
>>like America, but evidently he means this only in a superficial way.
>>There will apparently be no low-income people or non-college graduates
>>included, for example.

>Yeah, that's just what we need.  I hope it DOESN'T look like America
>because it appears that most Americans want everything but don't
>want to actually work for anything.

>A Clinton quote after the "economic summit" was "We don't have all the
>answers and we probably never will".  I'm glad 43% of the American
>electorate voted for someone who admits he doesn't have the answers.
>I'm not sure he evens knows the question.  What utter incompetence.

Sigh.  Another example of the failure of the American educational
system.  Reading comprehension, anyone?  There's a big difference
between "doesn't have ALL the answers" and "doesn't have the answers."
		      ^^^

Anyone who claims to have ALL the answers is a liar.  Or a religious
fundamentalist of some stripe.  Or am I being redundant?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.president.clinton,talk.politics.misc