HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Subject: Re: Pornography and Playboy
Reply-To: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:36:41 GMT


-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------
no. 6424500 filed  3.17.55  fri 24 jul 1992
from dgil
to   locun
subj Re: Pornography and Playboy
ref  6418472

     Marie -- if I understand you aright, when you were sculpting you no longer
saw the posing model as a person; in that altered state of consciousness, you
saw them as an object with an "interesting" (in a fairly Platonic sense) shape.
It seems to me that artistic nudes require, in order to be called "Art",
objectification that goes far beyond anything that happens with pornography!
(If anything, pornography is troublesome not because it objectifies, but
because it blurs the distinction between personification and objectification.
Photography is generally problematical, because it is hyperrealistic.)

     I'm not sure what you mean by "self-conscious", since you seem to use it
as a noun and I'm only familiar with it as an adjective (with a meaning that
isn't appropriate here...).
     But I *think* that your argument comes back basically to the "convenient
myth" that men aren't responsibile because they can't control themselves.  To
which I say:
     (a) Bull.  Men *can* be responsible; most of them are, most of the time.
         It's entirely likely that a few men have organic conditions which make
         them unable to control themselves, but I firmly believe, based on my
         own experiences, that most men who claim they can't control themselves
         are just being dangerously irresponsible.
     (b) If men aren't responsible, then it makes perfect sense to blame the
         women who "make" them lose control; to blame models for pornography,
         just as you have learned to do.  You didn't invent this system, but
         your attitude -- as far as I think I understand it -- perpetuates it.

     As far as controlling influences, rather than reactions:  it can be done,
but it's a lot of effort.  And, at least at present, the most immediately
obvious effect is utter alienation from the culture of one's neighbors, family,
and friends.  That's not, necessarily, a bad thing, but it's not hard to
understand why most people find the effort hard to sustain.

                                      Mentor the Sage
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Subject: Re: the new kid
Reply-To: allbery@ncoast.org (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:17:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.callahans

As quoted from <1992Jul28.1202.13386@dosgate> by "dalton spence" <dalton.spence@canrem.com>:
+---------------
| The Stranger-No-More speaks up. "BZZZZT!  That is INCORRECT! The
| movie (as well as the Marvel Comic it was based on) was based in
| Cleveland.  It was supposed to be a joke.  I mean, nothing ever
| happens in Cleveland, does it?"
+---------------

You could have fooled me...!

+---------------
| / Dalton S. Spence \272 UUCP: canrem!dalton.spence  RIME: ->CRS \
| \ Scarborough, Ont.\272 Internet: dalton.spence@canrem.com      /
| ---
|  \376 1st 1.00 #141 \376 Now using 1stReader...and praying!
+---------------

alt.callahans is being forwarded into RIME?  Neat!

(But the gateway should lose the non-ASCII characters.  I can imagine quite a
bit of mayhem on various systems if they see those things....)

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery, KF8NH [44.70.4.88]: allbery@NCoast.ORG, bsa@telotech.com
Senior Programmer, Telotech, Inc. (if I may call myself that...)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: A return
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 19:24:27 GMT

dreamy jim writes re: low body temp.

>    How much beef do you eat ? When I became a vegetarian my body tempersture
>   dropped to 95 F. It has since gone back up to 97 F. { Over a period of
>   10 years it went back up, not right away. It went down to 96 F after one
>   month of no beef. And for those who have forgotten, its allergies I face. }
>-- 

"probably too much...3 oz of beef lamb combo every morning ...and 2-3
times a week for dinner..."  kitten isn't a vegetarian...

--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
"perhaps _any_ universe becomes real in proportion 
to the number of people who believe in it and spend time there." s. robinson

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius)
Subject: Re: and stuff.. as always..
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 11:09:19 GMT
Organization: Bill 'n' Opus for Prez

In article <1992Jul29.231200.25916@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.192744.23845@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.TXG@forsythe.stanford.edu (TJ) writes:
>>TJ jumps in: Or how 'bout my favorite...'I see.' said the blind man
>>to the deaf mute, and the man with no legs walked away in disgust.
>
>
>     "One fine day in the middle of the night,
>      two dead boys got up to fight
>      back to back, they faced each other
>      took out their knives and they shot each other
         >>> drew their swords, and shot each other.
>      a deaf policeman heard the noise
>      and that was the end of the two dead boys."

       If you don't believe this lie is true,
       Ask the blind man, he saw it, too!

Public Service Announcement:  This is an international newsgroup.  There
are many people outside the US (or even North America) what want to read
it.  Please set your newsgroup lines accordingly.
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Babbage's Birthday Bargain Bash -- December 26th, 1992
From: rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re:  Just for Fun!  Or, The Best Way To Start The Day.
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:01:33 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


Nathan was minding his own business up in a tree, when a splash
from below distracted him.

<SPLASH!>

"Huh, (snort..cough..lazy eye rub)  Wha'zat?  Hey who's down t
                                                              h
                                                               e
                                                                r
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 e
                                                                 !
                                                                 "
                                                            [whomp]
                                                            (groan)

"ow."

Getting up and brushing himself off, Nathan seems none the worse for the
drop.  [ain't VR great!]

Looking about him, he notices a very nude Didi-Sprite searching through
the bushes.  Being a gentleman, he goes over to help this damsel in distress.
When he gets there, Didi is in the middle of a conversation with a
stuffed (?) bear.

"Um...Hello, Didi."

"Eeeek."  Says the normally eloquent sprite, while ducking back into the
lake.

"Gee Didi, You know you don't have to be embarrassed, it's just me.
I've bared myself to you before. And Speaking of Bears.

"Ramda, you better give me Didi's clothes, or we will find out if you
are drip dry or dry clean only."  Nathan backes up his threat with
an imposing stare.

Ramda gulps, looks at Nathan, then the lake.

"Hehee...um...I was just trying to keep her clothes form getting
wet."   The bear hands the clothes to Nathan, and then runs.

Nathan takes the clothes, turns his back and holds the clothes out
to his side.

"Didi, you can come out now.  I'll keep my eyes shut.

"Oh, and feel free to use my towel, the Beauty and the Beast (tm) one
under the bush."


:) Nathan.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: A Night in the Hills of West Virginia
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:20:59 GMT

In article <92204.154548U3E67@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> Cathy Ridings <U3E67@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
>
[descriptions of serious violence in the same town deleted]

>As I try to understand these acts of violence, I think of how TV and the movies
>have given us such graghic portrayals of violence.  It makes me very angry to
>see parents let thier children go to see movies such as "The Terminator".  And
>then they wonder why is my child so violent???!!??  Why is Billy hiting his
>sister and ME when he is angry??  Get a clue parent!

I believe that the behavior of the parents toward the children is a much
more important factor. 

Also, for what it's worth, the homicides you cited were all people killing
those close to them, and that's usually _not_ what's portrayed in violent
art, which tends to be more about killing strangers.

>I believe that violence in the real world will only get worse with the images
>we are letting our kids grow up with.
>
>I am very sensitive to violence.  I have realized that I can not watch those
>kind of movies.  I am not able to watch it and then forget it.  It sticks
>in my mind and then haunts me at night.  Take for example the movie "Cape
>Fear".  I had to leave the theatre after the rape scene.  This movie was
>so GRAPHIC, that I could not enjoy it.  My boyfriend got pissed because
>I was such a wimp.  Anyway for weeks after that one scene stuck in my head
>and I could see it when I close my eyes.

I don't know if this will work for you, but I've found that when I've 
been upset by a work of art (admittedly, it's never been quite that
bad for me), seeing/reading the work again takes a lot of the impact
off. The shock/surprise is considerably blunted or something.

>Well folks, I have rambled long enough.  Hope I have not offened anyone.
>
>But I pose a question for debate:   Are we hurting our children, our
>society with this violence?  Does anyone else feel that TV and movie violence
>leads to violence in real life?

I think it's a minor cause, if it's one at all, though I have serious
doubts about the way violence is frequently presented in American art.
(The good character is provoked again and again by the bad characters
until finally the g.c. has no recourse but a whirlwind of violence.
The g.c. doesn't endure any permanent injuries, and, in fact, the
aftereffects of the violence are never shown.)

I think that people not knowing non-violent methods of getting what
they want leads to violence. So does alcohol. (Though I still think
it should be legal.) Governments lead to more violence than anything
else I can think of. Believing that violence between children is
normal/not important/good for the victim certainly permits a lot
of violence. 

For what it's worth, I read about a study which found that people who
watched a lot of violent tv weren't more inclined to violence themselves,
but they were convinced that they were in danger of violence. 

                                      ----whirlwind

>
>Thanks,
>
>Cathy/Kaitlin
From: "dalton spence" <dalton.spence@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: the new kid
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:42:54 EST
Reply-To: "dalton spence" <dalton.spence@canrem.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In article <1992Jul24.185153.7762#cco.caltech.edu>,
lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals) said the following
about Re: The New Kid...

SS>How 'bout the theme from _Howard_the_Duck_?  Didn't he end up in
SS>Dayton in the movie?

The Stranger-No-More speaks up. "BZZZZT!  That is INCORRECT! The
movie (as well as the Marvel Comic it was based on) was based in
Cleveland.  It was supposed to be a joke.  I mean, nothing ever
happens in Cleveland, does it?"

STM watches dumbfounded, as SNM wanders away muttering "I can't
believe I actually remembered that!"

/ Dalton S. Spence  UUCP: canrem!dalton.spence  RIME: ->CRS \
\ Scarborough, Ont. Internet: dalton.spence@canrem.com      /
---
  1st 1.00 #141  Now using 1stReader...and praying!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lgold@callahans.Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Re: More of Nathan being Depressed. (feel free to skip this)
Organization: /mnt4/lgold/.organization
	<1992Jul26.100640.21318@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 07:37:30 GMT

A tiny voice cries out from the back.

"It's time for the 'Attack from the Killer Lick Monster!'"

Fuzzball scurries up to Nathan, jumps onto his lap, and proceeds to
lick him mercilessly.

--Lynn
--
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?<&QY97(@=V5R92!T;R!H97)E(&%B;W5T('1H:7,A"F%P
`
From: me_s420@ceres (Chris Welch)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: The Urban Spaceman passes through...
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:51:17 GMT
Organization: Kingston University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

The Urban Spaceman ambles in through the door. Rather than his usual clothes,
he is wearing martial arts type trousers and a black t-shirt with a large yin
yang symbol on it. Additionally he carries a six-foot staff and what looks like
a wooden sabre.

"Greetings one and all, and particularly the Wumpus. I haven't been around in
a bit, so I thought I'd better call by to prove that I still exist. Last 
weekend I got back from a week long tai ji summer school and this weekend I'm
off on a second one. 

'Extra-curricular' tai-ji (i.e as oppposed to my own personal stuff) was 
something that I had to put on hold while I got my PhD finished. It's great to
get back to it after the last 18 months or so. Last week made me feel superb,
and I hope to feel even better after next week. Since I feel as if I'm 
bubbling over with energy at the moment, I thought I'd better come and pass
some of it around. 

Tomorrow (Friday) I have to shoot off to start practising my father surrogate 
bit for my sister's wedding, but until then high-quality, energy-packed hugs
are available on demand. Meantime, Mike, a nice cold elderflower cordial would
go down a treat."

The Urban Spaceman passes Mike a strange looking coin with a hole in it, takes
his drink, and leans against the bar ready to embrace anyone who takes him up
on his offer.

(Since I probably won't be around to see any followups to this anyone who wants
a hug will have to write it themselves (careful though, these hugs are 
zingers !) Feel free to use my persona for fun and games if you want, but 
please email me a copy of whatever may occur, just so I know what I have been 
doing in my absence !)

--
           |                      Chris Welch - The Urban Spaceman     
_______   | |   _______                me_s420@uk.ac.kingston
| ooo |  /| |\  | ooo |      
| ooo | |/ ^ \| | ooo |  "Second star on the right, straight on till morning.
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: even more re: SEA takes a ride.
Date: 26 Jul 92 21:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera

In article <9207252213.AA13316@pops.navo.navy.mil>, pierce@navo.navy.mil (James M. Pierce) writes:
>     { more. yes, more... }
>
>   <whee> leapfrog over the satellites...
>
>  "How about a change in songs ?" SEA.
>
>  "Okay, what do I have in my suit here, aha ! 'also spake Zarathustra'

StM once again looks confused.  "How did you get a copy that was half German and
half English?  I thought it was either ``Also sprach Zarathustra'' or ``Thus
spake Zarathustra.''"
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: telsor@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Robert Morieson)
Subject: Re: Political Humor - Duck!
Organization: Monash General Access UNIX System
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:46:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.214900.9339@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> brumby@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen McNamara) writes:
>
>   The brumby is well aware that this is late, but that never stopped a
>punster!
>
>telsor@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Robert Morieson) writes:
>>ajm@wag.caltech.edu (Abner J. Mintz) writes:
>>>A supporter of H. Ross Perot is a Perogie!
>>Does that mean his supporters are exercising their Perotgative?
>
>   The brumby ap-Perot-ches Telsor.
>   "Such a Perot-chial attitude Telsor"
>   The brumby rears up, executes a neat Perot-ette, and leaps away.

How ina-perot-priate 

-- 
God is real, unless declared integer.
Telsor@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
Robert Morieson
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: The Nightstalker makes an observation
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:10:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.012059.17330@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, pope@physics.su.OZ.AU (The Nightstalker) writes:
>"The Gospels are eyewitness accounts of what happend, inspired by the holy    
>Spirit, and so are literal.

The gospels are ALLEGED to be eyewitness accounts, are demonstrably composed
largely of second-hand information (or did Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John
actually accompany the Magi on their trip from the East?), and there is
evidence that they weren't written until well after the events transpired, and
so, though allegedly literal, are in fact rather dubious.  Unless, of course,
you choose to believe that they true because the Bible is the word of God, and
of course, the Bible is the word of God because it says it is.

>The problem with pi is simply not having the exact
>number of decimal places.  As for genesis, that is still open to debate really
>isn't it.

Certainly.  You have yet to provide any of that Biblical EVIDENCE against
evolution that you jumped into this thread to support.  I agree, there's
Biblical evidence that the Jews believed in creation as described in the Bible. 
There is, to the best of my knowledge any Biblical evidence that they
necessaily believed it to be literal.  There's a Biblical ASSERTION that the
creation took place as described in Genesis.  Of course, there's also Stephen
King's assertion that there's this monster that used to live in the sewers of
Derry, Maine.  Of course, since it was written down, it MUST be true, mustn't
it?  So please, tell me where I can find that "Biblical evidence" that the
theory of evolution is false.


>Revelation is a vision, and is deliberately written in poetic
>language, a style of that era (please speak to literary historians for    
>verification), and has phrases that are from the O.T that the readers would
>understand.

And it also has a lot in common with what you'll hear if you should happen to
visit the ward for schizophrenics in your local hospital.  How do we tell that
vision from a schizophrenic hallucination?  Other, of course, than by saying,
"It's in the Bible, so it must be true."
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: JMPIERCE%USMCP6.bitnet@VM.TCS.Tulane.EDU (JIM PIERCE)
Subject: re: A Night in the Hills of West Virginia
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:55:27 GMT


 I sympathize with your worries, but violence was around long before
movies.

The other side of the coin. Does the words 'Belton made me do it !'
'Killeen Lubey's Cafeteria' ring a bell ? I grew up near there.
Less than one hour's drive from Killeen, Texas.

 When I first moved to Norfolk, Virginia, I couldn't sleep at night
because I was 2-3 blocks from the hospital and there was a siren
about once an hour. After about 3 months, I got used to it. The sound
no longer woke me up, but I did think about it. I got used to locking
my doors and windows long ago. People who live in rural areas take way
too many chances. I know that in some areas, the doors are left unlocked
so that people caught out in a snow storm can still find shelter and food
so they wont die, but precautions to save your own life are necessary.

   I think this is way-off the subject, but there were a lot of
'troubles' just before the year 1,000 AD. I have read several articles
that said that people, both conciously and subconciously, felt that
the world was coming to an end. So, they reacted by acting as if the
world was coming to an end. The articles felt that it had something to
do with all those zeros at the end of the year-date. One zero could
be handled okay, but three and an increase in violence, feelings of
hopelessness, etc. occur. Think of it as our representation of
Isaac Asimov's 'NightFall.' At least, thats what I got out of the
articles. No, I don't think that people will go as far as the people
in 'NightFall' did, but they could do some of the things that happened
in the year 991-999 AD. I'm not trying to be depressing, but if humans
are intelligent, they will get over the 'too many zeros in the year
date' syndrome. Later, Jim.

 { Actually, I'm not certain what I'm trying to say except,
   'I've been there.' }


* <JMPIERCE@USMCP6.BITNET> Jim "NickD." Pierce; Bach. Sci. in Appl. Cmp Sci
* USM Academic Computing on the Gulf Park Campus. Disclaimer: Standard.
* "At least my initials aren't Dan Quayle." me
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: Snow FantasyAnd now, back to the show:
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:28:53 GMT

In article <Bs1nM0.B51@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
>>>"i don't know..." says kitten  "my natural body temp is below
>>>97.5....and i have NO tolerence for cold...and no diabetes--and they
>>>haven't addmitted to the hypoglycemia yet...but i am reading up on the
>>>subject...
>>>
>>>i think you are just weird :)
>
>StM:
>
>>I thought that was obvious.
>
>kitten:  "yes, but i hated to pass up the chance for a compliment...."

Compliment gratefully accepted.  May I buy you a drink?  I recommend dark
Bacardi and diet Coke.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans