From: mireles@anhinga (David Mireles)
Subject: Think Twice! :pt1 on "The Decline of America..." series
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Keywords: Socialized Medicine, statistics
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:17:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.163041.25448@mont.cs.missouri.edu> 
harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-
moderator) writes:
 > "Should health care be a fundamental right?"
 > 1968, 1975, 1978 polls:         over 75% yes 
 >  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 > In a 1988 Harris poll 90 percent of the public responded 
 > that everyone should be entitled to care "as good as a 
 > millionaire could get."

	This is an interesting poll.  Let me ask this, 
should everyone be entitled to  have a home, a safe 
neighborhood, a means of transportation, three hot -meals a 
day, etc.?  The answer for anyone that has any remote 
conscience is  obviously yes.  Everyone should be "entitled" 
to a good life and all the  benefits therein.  A question 
more relevant to the issue is what exactly does  "entitled" 
mean?  For the above poll does it mean that everyone should 
have  equal health care, and if this is so what should 
define that level of equality  to be shared?  I would think 
that most people would agree that there should  be a base-
line of medical benefits to be shared and that this base-
line should  have the potential of covering all possible 
medical afflictions.  

	Now the issue turns not whether people should have 
medical care, but  who should be the sole bearer of that 
responsibility.  Posit this analogue:  For the welfare of 
living, food is perhaps the most essential item.  With out  
food a person cannot live.   If a society is to survive the 
members of that  society must be able to survive.  Thus it 
is imperative that food be available  for that society and 
its members. In fact, there should be a base-line of a  
certain amount of food available to each member.  Now the 
question is this,  who should be the providers of that food?  
Should each individual hand over  a certain percent of their 
paycheck to an agency set up by the society, which  would in 
turn redistribute the wealth in the form of equal portions 
of food  that meet the defined base-line?  So perhaps people 
would have to go to an  agency-supported food store that 
would supply their weekly proportion of  food.  What 
implications might this have?  First off, everyone would  
definitely get what food they needed to survive, but 
(secondly) they would  get just that--what is necessary for 
survival.  This means that the only food  available is what 
is supported and supplied by the agency (starting to sound  
very communistic?).  There would be no emphasis on diversity 
(as in to  quality) since the products in food stores sold 
would be only those that  could be supported by the agency 
(ie., the common wealth donation minus  bureaucratic 
finances--which we know to be overly expensive).  The 
overall  quality of food in both availability and diversity 
would be lowered since not  every individual in the 
population would be handing over the same amount  of income 
but every individual would receiving equal proportions (this 
is  especially true for a society that has a larger number 
of lower than higher  income).  I ask this: Would you rather 
pay for your own food, for however  much and for what ever 
kind you want, or have a government agency  determine for 
your the amount you will receive and the diversity that you  
can have (as such was the case in the former USSR)?

	This is obviously taking the case to the extreme, 
but the same principles  follow for socialized housing, 
transportation, and health care.  A more  efficient system 
would exist if individuals could supply there own support  
for living (taking out the funnel always increases flow).  
What about those  who can't because of lower economic 
status?  Society should focus their  efforts on bringing 
those in the lower economic status out of it by supplying


D.E. Mireles


-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
M>UQR=&8P7&%N<VE[7&9O;G1T8FQ<9C!<9FUO9&5R;B!#;W5R:65R.WT*7&UA
M<F=L,3(P"EQM87)G<C$R,`I[7&-O;&]R=&)L7')E9#!<9W)E96XP7&)L=64P
M.WT*7'!A<F1<='@Q,34R7'1X,C,P-%QT>#,T-39<='@T-C`X7'1X-3<V,%QT
M>#8Y,3)<='@X,#8T7'1X.3(Q-EQT>#$P,S8X7'1X,3$U,C!<9C!<8C!<:3!<
M=6PP7&9S,C1<9F,P($EN(&%R=&EC;&4@/#$Y.3)/8W0V+C$V,S`T,2XR-30T
M.$!M;VYT+F-S+FUI<W-O=7)I+F5D=3X@7`IH87)E;&)`;6%T:"YC;W)N96QL
M+F5D=2`H;6ES8RYA8W1I=FES;2YP<F]G<F5S<VEV92!C;RU<"FUO9&5R871O
M<BD@=W)I=&5S.EP*(#X@(E-H;W5L9"!H96%L=&@@8V%R92!B92!A(&9U;F1A
M;65N=&%L(')I9VAT/R)<"B`^(#$Y-C@L(#$Y-S4L(#$Y-S@@<&]L;',Z("`@
M("`@("`@;W9E<B`W-24@>65S(%P*(#X@("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("T@
M+2`M("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("T@+2`M("U<"B`^($EN(&$@
M,3DX."!(87)R:7,@<&]L;"`Y,"!P97)C96YT(&]F('1H92!P=6)L:6,@<F5S
M<&]N9&5D(%P*(#X@=&AA="!E=F5R>6]N92!S:&]U;&0@8F4@96YT:71L960@
M=&\@8V%R92`B87,@9V]O9"!A<R!A(%P*(#X@;6EL;&EO;F%I<F4@8V]U;&0@
M9V5T+B)<"EP*"51H:7,@:7,@86X@:6YT97)E<W1I;F<@<&]L;"X@($QE="!M
M92!A<VL@=&AI<RP@7`IS:&]U;&0@979E<GEO;F4@8F4@96YT:71L960@=&\@
M(&AA=F4@82!H;VUE+"!A('-A9F4@7`IN96EG:&)O<FAO;V0L(&$@;65A;G,@
M;V8@=')A;G-P;W)T871I;VXL('1H<F5E(&AO="`M;65A;',@82!<"F1A>2P@
M971C+C\@(%1H92!A;G-W97(@9F]R(&%N>6]N92!T:&%T(&AA<R!A;GD@<F5M
M;W1E(%P*8V]N<V-I96YC92!I<R`@;V)V:6]U<VQY('EE<RX@($5V97)Y;VYE
M('-H;W5L9"!B92`B96YT:71L960B(%P*=&\@82!G;V]D(&QI9F4@86YD(&%L
M;"!T:&4@(&)E;F5F:71S('1H97)E:6XN("!!('%U97-T:6]N(%P*;6]R92!R
M96QE=F%N="!T;R!T:&4@:7-S=64@:7,@=VAA="!E>&%C=&QY(&1O97,@(")E
M;G1I=&QE9"(@7`IM96%N/R`@1F]R('1H92!A8F]V92!P;VQL(&1O97,@:70@
M;65A;B!T:&%T(&5V97)Y;VYE('-H;W5L9"!<"FAA=F4@(&5Q=6%L(&AE86QT
M:"!C87)E+"!A;F0@:68@=&AI<R!I<R!S;R!W:&%T('-H;W5L9"!<"F1E9FEN
M92!T:&%T(&QE=F5L(&]F(&5Q=6%L:71Y("!T;R!B92!S:&%R960_("!)('=O
M=6QD('1H:6YK(%P*=&AA="!M;W-T('!E;W!L92!W;W5L9"!A9W)E92!T:&%T
M('1H97)E('-H;W5L9"`@8F4@82!B87-E+5P*;&EN92!O9B!M961I8V%L(&)E
M;F5F:71S('1O(&)E('-H87)E9"!A;F0@=&AA="!T:&ES(&)A<V4M7`IL:6YE
M('-H;W5L9"`@:&%V92!T:&4@<&]T96YT:6%L(&]F(&-O=F5R:6YG(&%L;"!P
M;W-S:6)L92!<"FUE9&EC86P@869F;&EC=&EO;G,N("!<"EP*"4YO=R!T:&4@
M:7-S=64@='5R;G,@;F]T('=H971H97(@<&5O<&QE('-H;W5L9"!H879E(%P*
M;65D:6-A;"!C87)E+"!B=70@('=H;R!S:&]U;&0@8F4@=&AE('-O;&4@8F5A
M<F5R(&]F('1H870@7`IR97-P;VYS:6)I;&ET>2X@(%!O<VET('1H:7,@86YA
M;&]G=64Z("!&;W(@=&AE('=E;&9A<F4@;V8@7`IL:79I;F<L(&9O;V0@:7,@
M<&5R:&%P<R!T:&4@;6]S="!E<W-E;G1I86P@:71E;2X@(%=I=&@@;W5T("!<
M"F9O;V0@82!P97)S;VX@8V%N;F]T(&QI=F4N("`@268@82!S;V-I971Y(&ES
M('1O('-U<G9I=F4@=&AE(%P*;65M8F5R<R!O9B!T:&%T("!S;V-I971Y(&UU
M<W0@8F4@86)L92!T;R!S=7)V:79E+B`@5&AU<R!I="!<"FES(&EM<&5R871I
M=F4@=&AA="!F;V]D(&)E(&%V86EL86)L92`@9F]R('1H870@<V]C:65T>2!A
M;F0@7`II=',@;65M8F5R<RX@26X@9F%C="P@=&AE<F4@<VAO=6QD(&)E(&$@
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M>2!S970@=7`@8GD@=&AE('-O8VEE='DL('=H:6-H("!W;W5L9"!I;B!<"G1U
M<FX@<F5D:7-T<FEB=71E('1H92!W96%L=&@@:6X@=&AE(&9O<FT@;V8@97%U
M86P@<&]R=&EO;G,@7`IO9B!F;V]D("!T:&%T(&UE970@=&AE(&1E9FEN960@
M8F%S92UL:6YE/R`@4V\@<&5R:&%P<R!P96]P;&4@7`IW;W5L9"!H879E('1O
M(&=O('1O(&%N("!A9V5N8WDM<W5P<&]R=&5D(&9O;V0@<W1O<F4@=&AA="!<
M"G=O=6QD('-U<'!L>2!T:&5I<B!W965K;'D@<')O<&]R=&EO;B!O9B`@9F]O
M9"X@(%=H870@7`II;7!L:6-A=&EO;G,@;6EG:'0@=&AI<R!H879E/R`@1FER
M<W0@;V9F+"!E=F5R>6]N92!W;W5L9"`@7`ID969I;FET96QY(&=E="!W:&%T
M(&9O;V0@=&AE>2!N965D960@=&\@<W5R=FEV92P@8G5T(%P**'-E8V]N9&QY
M*2!T:&5Y('=O=6QD("!G970@:G5S="!T:&%T+2UW:&%T(&ES(&YE8V5S<V%R
M>2!F;W(@7`IS=7)V:79A;"X@(%1H:7,@;65A;G,@=&AA="!T:&4@;VYL>2!F
M;V]D("!A=F%I;&%B;&4@:7,@=VAA="!<"FES('-U<'!O<G1E9"!A;F0@<W5P
M<&QI960@8GD@=&AE(&%G96YC>2`H<W1A<G1I;F<@=&\@<V]U;F0@(%P*=F5R
M>2!C;VUM=6YI<W1I8S\I+B`@5&AE<F4@=V]U;&0@8F4@;F\@96UP:&%S:7,@
M;VX@9&EV97)S:71Y(%P**&%S(&EN('1O("!Q=6%L:71Y*2!S:6YC92!T:&4@
M<')O9'5C=',@:6X@9F]O9"!S=&]R97,@<V]L9"!<"G=O=6QD(&)E(&]N;'D@
M=&AO<V4@=&AA="`@8V]U;&0@8F4@<W5P<&]R=&5D(&)Y('1H92!A9V5N8WD@
M7`HH:64N+"!T:&4@8V]M;6]N('=E86QT:"!D;VYA=&EO;B!M:6YU<R`@8G5R
M96%U8W)A=&EC(%P*9FEN86YC97,M+7=H:6-H('=E(&MN;W<@=&\@8F4@;W9E
M<FQY(&5X<&5N<VEV92DN("!4:&4@7`IO=F5R86QL("!Q=6%L:71Y(&]F(&9O
M;V0@:6X@8F]T:"!A=F%I;&%B:6QI='D@86YD(&1I=F5R<VET>2!<"G=O=6QD
M(&)E(&QO=V5R960@<VEN8V4@;F]T("!E=F5R>2!I;F1I=FED=6%L(&EN('1H
M92!<"G!O<'5L871I;VX@=V]U;&0@8F4@:&%N9&EN9R!O=F5R('1H92!S86UE
M(&%M;W5N="`@;V8@:6YC;VUE(%P*8G5T(&5V97)Y(&EN9&EV:61U86P@=V]U
M;&0@<F5C96EV:6YG(&5Q=6%L('!R;W!O<G1I;VYS("AT:&ES(%P*:7,@(&5S
M<&5C:6%L;'D@=')U92!F;W(@82!S;V-I971Y('1H870@:&%S(&$@;&%R9V5R
M(&YU;6)E<B!<"F]F(&QO=V5R('1H86X@:&EG:&5R("!I;F-O;64I+B`@22!A
M<VL@=&AI<SH@5V]U;&0@>6]U(')A=&AE<B!<"G!A>2!F;W(@>6]U<B!O=VX@
M9F]O9"P@9F]R(&AO=V5V97(@(&UU8V@@86YD(&9O<B!W:&%T(&5V97(@7`IK
M:6YD('EO=2!W86YT+"!O<B!H879E(&$@9V]V97)N;65N="!A9V5N8WD@(&1E
M=&5R;6EN92!F;W(@7`IY;W5R('1H92!A;6]U;G0@>6]U('=I;&P@<F5C96EV
M92!A;F0@=&AE(&1I=F5R<VET>2!T:&%T('EO=2`@7`IC86X@:&%V92`H87,@
M<W5C:"!W87,@=&AE(&-A<V4@:6X@=&AE(&9O<FUE<B!54U-2*3]<"EP*"51H
M:7,@:7,@;V)V:6]U<VQY('1A:VEN9R!T:&4@8V%S92!T;R!T:&4@97AT<F5M
M92P@7`IB=70@=&AE('-A;64@<')I;F-I<&QE<R`@9F]L;&]W(&9O<B!S;V-I
M86QI>F5D(&AO=7-I;F<L(%P*=')A;G-P;W)T871I;VXL(&%N9"!H96%L=&@@
M8V%R92X@($$@;6]R92`@969F:6-I96YT('-Y<W1E;2!<"G=O=6QD(&5X:7-T
M(&EF(&EN9&EV:61U86QS(&-O=6QD('-U<'!L>2!T:&5R92!O=VX@<W5P<&]R
M="`@7`IF;W(@;&EV:6YG("AT86MI;F<@;W5T('1H92!F=6YN96P@86QW87ES
M(&EN8W)E87-E<R!F;&]W*2X@(%P*5VAA="!A8F]U="!T:&]S92`@=VAO(&-A
M;B=T(&)E8V%U<V4@;V8@;&]W97(@96-O;F]M:6,@7`IS=&%T=7,_("!3;V-I
M971Y('-H;W5L9"!F;V-U<R!T:&5I<B`@969F;W)T<R!O;B!B<FEN9VEN9R!<
M"G1H;W-E(&EN('1H92!L;W=E<B!E8V]N;VUI8R!S=&%T=7,@;W5T(&]F(&ET
D(&)Y('-U<'!L>6EN9UP*7`I<"D0N12X@36ER96QE<UP*"GT*
`