From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Soyuz vs. reality
X-Sender: newtout 0.06 Jan  3 1993
Date: 20 Jan 93  22:10:16

DA:  The optimal means of using the Soyuz is for U.S. commercial
DA:  launchers to orbit the lifeboats from Florida,
 
-Baloney. Figure out transportation costs from Russia + Cost of U.S. 
-launchers. Compare to Proton launchers in Russia, without all the 
-integration headaches. 
 
Since the baseline NASA plan is to launch Soyuzes on the Shuttle, the
above is merely *your* personal pipedream, and therefor not relevant.
 
DA: provide an additional means of human access to space
DA: (given the  likely possibility of a future grounding of the Space 
DA: Shuttle fleet, this is a good idea)
 
-Huh? So what, the Russians are still launching. If you meant an 
-additional U.S. means of access to space, you'd be correct. However, 
-you said "human." The Russians are human too. 
 
-Russians cannot fly to Freedom's 28 degree orbit.
-
DA:   Each Soyuz can generate over one kilowatt with its
DA: solar panels.
-
-So tell me, which one of you brilliances has figured out the 
-aerodynamic drag and headaches of the solar panels flopping 
-about Freedom? Or the impact on other experiments? 
-
I believe the Russians have some experience with the aerodynamic drag
of the Soyuz solar panels. Actually, they are significantly smaller than
the Freedom panels, and very small in relation to other structures on
the station. 
-
DA:  Also, the Soyuz can serve as a bedroom for one
DA: crew member, a luxury the current Space Station designers have
DA: removed from Freedom.
-
-Big deal. 
-
Spoken like a true non-astronaut. Astronauts report privacy to be a 
big deal.
-
DA:   However, NASA is mindful of these capabilities, and is working
DA: to eliminate several key capabilities. The solar panels are to
DA: be replaced by lithium batteries. This will both reduce the
DA: power generating capability of Soyuz when docked with the
DA: station, and reduce its ability to operate as a free flying
DA: spacecraft.
-
-If it's a lifeboat, why do you want a free flying spacecraft?
-
So we can use Soyuz for other purposes, such as inexpensive satellite
repair, in case the shuttle is grounded, in case we want to save
money, etc.
-
-It's cheaper still to use Russian boosters. 
-
Not if they can't put a Soyuz in the right orbit. The Proton is about
6,000 pounds of payload capability short of being up to the job.
-
DA:   More importantly, we need to seek out means of both incenting
DA: the domestic launch industry, and getting more people into
DA: space. Launching crewed Soyuzes on commercial launch vehicles
DA: does this. Launching the Soyuzes in Shuttle does not.
-
-I see incentives for the Russian launch industry. I see few for 
-"commercial" other than the integrater. Get real.
-
Again, the Russians can't orbit the Soyuz in the 28 degree orbit, without
using Energiya.
-
-Why don't you Space Zealots show some real guts, rather than trying these
-kludgy back-door solutions? 
-
We are certainly open for suggestions. What solutions should we use?
And which are *you* working on?
-
-Get a law written to force NASA to contract for alternate means of 
-delivering astronauts, other than Shuttle. 
-
Politically impossible today, and will be unless the shuttle fails. In
that case, the law will be irrelevant. Unless you really believe that
the space activist movement has a chance to ground the Space Shuttle.
-
-If you guys start playing the least cost game, the least cost solution 
-is to buy American astronauts tickets to Star City for launch on the 
-Soyuz/Proton express... don't kid yourselves.
-
Again, the Russians can't get Soyuzes into Freedom's orbit. James
Oberg came up with a way to fly stripped down Soyuzes (12,000 lbs)
to Freedom on a Proton, IF the Russians were willing to fly trajectories 
over China, and over inhabitated areas in Kazakhstan. A 12,000 lb.
Soyuz is probably not functional, the protn is still not man-rated
by the Russians, and the Kazaks aren't going to let the Russians fly 
over Alma-Alta at this point in history, so the default is letting 
NASA fly Soyuz on the Shuttle. UNLESS we do something to prevent 
that bad outcome.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space