HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Subject: Re: Twain and London (post-part II TIME'S ARROW)
Reply-To: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Organization: The John Fluke Mfg. Co.  /a.k.a. The Gizmonics Institute/
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 07:56:33 GMT

In regards to the characterization of Clemens and London (some spoilers of
part II below):

1)  Clemens returns to the 20th century much more optimistic of mankind's
    future.  However (as others have pointed out), his later works continue
    to be fairly cynical.  Something of a discrepency there...

2)  A much larger discrepency, however, is Jack London; in the first episode
    of the series, Jack is shown as being impressed with how America is a
    great place because (paraphrased) "a man can come into town with nothing
    but the shirt on his back and make a thousand dollars in a day," i.e., a
    Horatio Alger outlook.  Also, he is much impressed with people making 
    money.

    However, the encyclopedia's I've read have all said that London was a
    longtime socialist.  Anyone with a better knowledge of London's life
    care to comment?
  
                           "Boy, they were big on crematoriums, weren't they?"
                                           -- George Bush at Auschwitz, 1987
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: CXMP000 <CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: Time-loop flaw in Time's Arrow II
Organization: McGill University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:40:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.184234.28750@tin.monsanto.com> lesnyd@monsanto.com (Larry E. Snyder) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.164427.20584@nmsu.edu>, ssubrama@dante.nmsu.edu (SUBRAMANIAM) writes:
>>
>> Hi netters,
>>  Has anyone noticed a flaw in Time's Arrow II.  When Samuel Clemens
>> comes to the enterprise, he sees his watch and someone (I think Geordi) tells
>> him that they found it in the cavern along with data's head.  That means
>> that the watch is 500+ years old.  Clemens takes the watch goes back to the
>> 19th century and leaves it in the cave.  That means the watch would be 1000+
>> years old in the next loop. That cannot happen.  If everything happened as I
>> have mentioned here in TA II, then the flaw is present.  Can someone confirm
>> my observation or am I wrong in perceiving the events.
>
>No, Clemens took the 500-year-old watch back, but left his then-new watch in
>the cavern when he realized he already had one in his pocket (the old one).
>Hmmm - I wonder what would have happened if he decided to test "fate" and
>take BOTH watches with him when he left the cavern...would the old one
>disappear, since it was never there?

I can't remember if I posted this already or not. :)

Time travel implies causility violation which implies that one does not
have as much free will as you might think.  The watch doesn't disappear
because, supposedly, it is inevitable that it would find it's way in the
cave.  Of course, if Clemens smashed his 19th century watch, the 24th
century watch would also be smashed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ! Address as above or use
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                                ! MUHEP::LOULA if you're on a VAX
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Terminal freeze, duplicate posts, lost posts and email-come-posts,
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rbeck@mordordseg.ti.com (Ron Beck)
Subject: Re: Data's Head deterioration not affecting anything Explained!
Reply-To: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com
Organization: is an esoteric concept.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:39:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.062130.24694@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Rosen) writes:
|> rrogers@watson.ibm.com (Ryan Rogers) writes:
|> >>The iron filing *had* to be there the entire time as it was placed in the
|> >>head back in the 1900's by Picard.  But, the time travel stuff has been
|> >>beat to death for the past few weeks so I won't rehash on that.
|> >>
|> >   Agreed.
|> 
|> 
|> No, no, no.  How could the filling have been there if Picard hadn't
|> traveled back in time yet to place it there?  Taking a linear approach
|> to the problem, when they found the head it was before they discovered
|> the portal to the past.  So, from point A (discovery of the head) to
|> point B (travel to the past), the head has just languished in the cave
|> for 500 years with no one the wiser.  Now, later in the future
|> timeline, Picard & Co. travel back and then Picard later places the
|> filling in the head.  He couldn't have done it before then as he was
|> still on the Enterprise.  It's not that hard to comprehend...  Of
|> course, time travel is not possible so you can come up with any theory
|> you want...
|> 
NO NO NO...
The iron filing was there all the time.  Data never found it because
he didn't apply power to the head.  In fact, he never opened the back
access panel that Geordi did.

Picard & co went back in time BEFORE Data's head was detached.  Thus
Picard was there *when Data's head was separated from his body*!  Had
Data done a *COMPLETE* analysis of his head he probably would have
found the filing.  HOWEVER...he was needed down on the planet & then
got sucked into the 19th century.  IMHO...he never got to complete his
examination of his head.

Ron
|> Mike
|> --
|> Michael Rosen						"Beer - It does
|> Tau Epsilon Phi - George Washington University		 a body good."
|> mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu
|> Michael.Rosen@bbs.oit.unc.edu or @lambada.oit.unc.edu

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald J. Beck           | IP rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com |Do now what others
Member, Group Tech Staff | MaBell (214) 952-4566       |won't so you can do
Texas Instruments        |                             |later what others
McKinney, Texas          |                             |can't
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow II question
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1992 21:47:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.151956.1@minnie.imd.nrc.ca> rrogers@minnie.imd.nrc.ca writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.055938.4366@admiral.uucp>, dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman) writes:
>> I may have missed something, in either part I or part II, but why didn't 
>> Picard et al contact Data with their communicators? I know Data gambled his
>> away in the poker game in part I, but considering all the things he won back,
>> (one guy's vest, the indian's hat, etc.) I find it hard to believe he didn't win
>> that back as well. 
>
>	I'd say he did win it back, but he dismantled it and used the parts
>	for the device he constructed.
>

Hmmm, good thought! It would have been nice if they showed that, though...


-- 
"Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ray, when somebody asks you if you're a god, you say YES!" -- Winston Zeddmore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu (Gerald George Marfoe)
Subject: Re: Picard/Riker
Reply-To: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:52:40 GMT

In article 16066@wdl.loral.com, trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort) writes:
> In article <1992Oct2.204823.5271@ra.msstate.edu>, cea1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Carolyn E. Adams-Price) writes:
> |>  With regard to Picard/Riker, the Ferengi, or even Wesley,
> |> let's think about fun combinations from TOS or TNG that we'd
> |> rather see for president than Bush/Quayle or (heaven forbid)
> |> Quayle/Somebody else.
> 
>    You forgot the scariest combination of all: Clinton/Gore!
> 
> -- Tim

Wrong newsgroup - but if you insist, Perot's the scariest of all, since he proposes
killing the Space Station program to cut the deficit. At least Clinton/Gore have
a virtually identical space policy to Bush/Quayle.



---

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald G. Marfoe                    |"Mirabile visu. Mirabilia/Et itur ad astra
InterNet: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu    |... Suus cuique mos. Suum cuique.../
          ggmar@ducvax.auburn.edu   |Memento, terrigena./Memento, vita brevis."
          ggmar@hoshi.colorado.edu  |- "Afer Ventus", Enya, "Shepherd Moons"

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Subject: Re: Computer on Enterprise
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:44:41 GMT

00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rob Harrington) writes:

>And [...] if all you have to do is say "Computer" what happens
>when the word "Computer" comes up in casual conversation?

Nothing.  The computer reads the script.

Or you can argue that the computer has been taught a bit about the
semantics of speech, and can tell the difference between a casual
name-dropping and a request of the computer.

Or, you can note the different tone of voice one has when they start a
sentence with "Computer," or use "computer" in the middle of a sentence.

>|  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
>|  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |

-- 
aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ssubrama@dante.nmsu.edu (SUBRAMANIAM)
Subject: Time-loop flaw in Time's Arrow II
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:44:27 GMT

Hi netters,
	Has anyone noticed a flaw in Time's Arrow II.  When Samuel Clemens
comes to the enterprise, he sees his watch and someone (I think Geordi) tells
him that they found it in the cavern along with data's head.  That means
that the watch is 500+ years old.  Clemens takes the watch goes back to the
19th century and leaves it in the cave.  That means the watch would be 1000+
years old in the next loop. That cannot happen.  If everything happened as I
have mentioned here in TA II, then the flaw is present.  Can someone confirm
my observation or am I wrong in perceiving the events.

Siva
email: ssubrama@dante.nmsu.edu
From: mneylon@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (Michael Neylon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: --<Man of the People>-- *SPOILERS*
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:34:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: uoft02.1992Oct6.123441.10359

Spoilers for MotP...


Wow.  I am impressed.  After TAII, these last two episodes are a definite
improvement.  Not to say that they are as great as mid-3rd season ones,
but it does show that the writers HAVE paid attention to what we've been
saying on here....

"Man of the People" was well written IMHO.  We start off with the plot
right away, and never really do anything else but watch the plot unfold.
There were enough hints through the shows as to the situation with
the ambasssador and (female) empaths.  The plot was given plenty
of time to build, and a comparable amount to resolution.  Obviously, this
episode shows that writtens have definitely overcome pitfalls of last season.

Acting was quite well done.  Sitris had very good parts, playing well
out of character (as she was meant to in this episode).  Looking back after
knowing exactly what was happening, she did a marvelous job of showing
'negative' emotions (angry, lust, rage, etc).  Steward,, Frankes, and 
McFadden also played their parts quite well and in character (are we
about to see the Riker-Trio relation build again now?)  I didnt really
care for the ambassador, although he did have that 'Im *sorta* evil'
quality in him.

Not much in the SFx departemnt this week, although I think they did a 
wonderful job with aging Trio (and what a morph!) and the ambassador.

Somehow, the directing seemed different in this one.  Specificly, on the
planets surface, when Picard and the Ambassador were talking.  I dont
think I've seen 'head-only' shots like that (most of the time, you can
see the comm badge as well).  I didnt like it, but other parts were
well done (the scene where they revive Trio and the ambassador goes down
was actually quite good...)

A few other odd points...
-I dont know if I would wanna be a member of that race...they always 
die like a dead gerbil...

-The morph was well done, but I dont think Trio's metabolism would reverse
her aging process THAT fast :)

-Was the ambassador's female consort a previous guest star on TNG?  I sure
I saw her before...

-One obvious point was when Trio got into the elevator with the 'young 
innocent' ensign....That was actually quite cute

-Forgot to mention this, but the plot moved quite well in this...As 
opposed to points in last week's where it seemed to drag, this was always
up on its toes...

I would give this episode an 8.5 out of 10 .  It was quite well done,
but there were just little things that could have been done better....

Oh well, next week is going to be a true test of the TNG writers...how
well can they implement Scotty into the 24th century...

-- 
Michael Neylon   aka Masem the Great and Almighty Thermodynamics GOD!
      //         | Senior, Chemical Engineering, Univ. of Toledo
  \\ // Only the |   Summer Intern, NASA Lewis Research Center
\  \X/   AMIGA!  |         mneylon@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu           /
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 17:01:59 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: My own silly top ten list

i realize this top ten thing is a joke, but...

data can speak french with contractions because there is no other way to
speak french.  in english, one can say "i have" or "i've".  in french, one
MUST say "j'ai".  one CANNOT say "je ai."

anyway, i don't think he used any contractions.  i'm not sure, but i think
he said, "alors, nous sommes comme freres" - "so, we are like brothers".
he might've said more, or something different, though.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: tng music (was re: po
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:39:44 EST

>        The Boston area has just started to get TNG repeats, and they
>are playing 1st season episodes. IMHO, 1st season music SUCKS! It's
>too joyous, too loud, too bombastic, too ambitious. It gets in the
>way. Horns blaring, strings running up scales...ACK!

That's because the gist of Season 1 episodes were taken straight out of
the Encounter at Farpoint soundtrack, which was, IMHO, VERY boring.

My all time favourite music does not come from an episode, however, it
comes from Star Trek VI.  Hands down, that is THE BEST piece of Star
Trek music around.  However, I'm positively sure that it wouldn't work
in terms of Berman-standards.

>        I much prefer the subtler, classier tone of the more recent
>episodes. BOBW is definitely up there, but I think the dramatic music
>in that case was warranted, since it is easily the most dramtic
>of the TNG episodes, and because the score was of exceptional quality.

I think they should stick with "The Planets" by that Holtz guy (sorry,
my composers are a little rusty) like what Cliff Eidleman did for STVI.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET: bernie.wong@canrem.com

 * OLX 2.1 TD * "We need-- breathing room!"  Chang
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rrogers@watson.ibm.com (Ryan Rogers)
Subject: Troi on TA II (**SPOILERS**)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:40:42 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: rrogers@watson.ibm.com (Ryan Rogers)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

   Possible spoilers (not really though...).





































   Sorry if this has already been brought up...

   Did anyone catch Troi's dark sun tan on TA II?  Brent Spiner noted at
a Con that I went to this summer that she was in the Bahamas for 2-3 weeks
right before the filming of TA II.  It's pretty funny...if you watch TA I
and TA II back-to-back, you can *really* notice it.  Must have been the
Triolic (sp?) waves :-)


Sincerely,
Ryan Rogers
From: ahummel@ems.cdc.com (H. Austin Hummel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Scotty's return:  What rank?
Date: 25 Sep 92 14:05:02 GMT
Reply-To: you@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <2z9nzpf.saf@netcom.com>, saf@netcom.com (Steve A. Feinstein) writes:
|> In article <199smvINN3gj@maico.ksu.ksu.edu> tilden@maico.ksu.ksu.edu (Jeffery A Bohning) writes:
|> >
|> >In article <1992Sep10.141250.22645@no1home.nashvil.ingr.com>, puter@no1home.nashvil.ingr.com (PuterDude) writes:
|> >> rchen@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ronald K. Chen) acts like a bookie...
|> >>
|> >>>Anyone taking bets on what rank Mr. Scott will have when he returns
|> >>>to TNG?
|> >>>
|> >Try Admiral.  It worked for McCoy, Why not for Scotty?
|> >
|> Probably not, as McCoy had the time to achieve Admiral, but Mr. Scott
|> has been stuck in some transporter mechanism for 80 some odd years.
|> Unle he'd been promoted posthumasly he'll likely not have made it to
|> admiral. 
|> 

More then likely, Scotty has been legally missing and presummed dead.
His reappearance will change Star Fleet pay regulations, etc.

Think about it.. ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: PICARD/RIKER in White House?
From: cse1011@desire.wright.edu
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:01:10 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <34740006@hpmwga.sr.hp.com>, scottdl@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Scott LaFrancois) writes:
>> write in PICARD/RIKER.  Thank you for your support.
> 
> 	Before your guys get carry away, let me point out that
>>Picard was born in England so this disqualifies him from running the office.
>>It would be nice to have a bald president for a change !
> 
	I though Picard was french?
> 
>>Jack Teh
> 
>  Actually he is eligable if he is a naturalized citizen, meaning he has
>  lived in the US for at least fourteen years.
> 
	Which is hard to do on a starship.
>  Scott Lafrancois
> 
	Kurt Cypher
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: ST3GEN Part 7 Needed
From: trekkie@netlink.cts.com (Bryce Newall)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 15:46:53 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

A while back, someone on either this newsgroup or 
rec.arts.startrek.misc posted a 7-part Star Trek story called Star
Trek: The Third Generation.  I wasn't able to get Part 7, so I am asking 
if someone could post it for me?  I would be very appreciative if someone 

would do this.  Thanks in advance...
 
                                                -- Trekkie

------------------------------------------------------------------
     "AT&T Subspace...the next best thing to beaming there."
INTERNET:  trekkie@netlink.cts.com (Bryce Newall)
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NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: PICARD/RIKER in White House?
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:04:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.033821.29536@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, howes@cat13.cs.wisc.edu (Glenn Howes) writes:
|> In article <23469@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> msheldon@luna.dpl.scg.hac.com (Marti Sheldon) writes:
|> >Re: "Picard/Riker 92" - no good. Jean Luc was not born in the
|> >United States.  Riker/Picard would work, though.
|> 
|> How do we know that France isn't part of the United States (or a direct
|> descendant of that organization). Evidence: everybody speaks English,
|> French is considered an obscure language (at least by Data.)
|> 
|> 
|> BTW, the requirements for vice-president are the same as for president.
|>

Yes, but Riker was born in Alaska and as far as I know, that's still part of
the US ;-)
 
|> 
|> -- 
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Glenn R. Howes              Internet: howes@bert.chem.wisc.edu
|> author: Kermit Tool GH      // Picard & Riker in '92 
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
-----------------------------                                              
SKY WARRIOR aka MLH Bonham  | "Good tea.  Nice House." -- Lt. Worf
mammoth!mlhb@druhi.att.com  |----------------------------------------------
mlhb@drutx.ATT.COM          | SKY WARRIOR RACING KENNELS - Coming to an
                            | Iditarod near you!
----------------------------- 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Scott Forbes)
Subject: Scott's "batting ninth" review:  Time's Arrow II
Organization: Usenet Sports Programming Network
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 06:51:32 GMT

Here there be SPOILERS for Time's Arrow II:

I think Douglas Zander owes me a pizza.  :-)


On our "worth watching" scale of -1 to 3, Time's Arrow II gets a:

1.0	Worth watching, once

This show could have been a good two-part episode, but they 
seem to have showed the wrong second part:  They left out the reel
where the crew somehow gets into the Presidio, the part where we
find out where that funky, time-spitting snake came from, how the
crew managed to find food and clothing (but lack money for shelter),
and so on...

Instead they showed some of the less interesting aspects:  How Picard
distracts a 19th century landlady, how the once-intriguing character of
Samuel Clemens becomes a dullard when transported through time, and
how Geordi the Wonder Engineer can fix Data's head by running a few
diagnostics and removing a small foreign object, two tasks which Data
should have been perfectly capable of performing in Part I of this
"cliffhanger" episode.


BEST PART OF EPISODE:  I'll go with the Picard/Guinan interaction, but
virtually by default; nothing really comes to mind here.

WORST PART OF EPISODE:  Aside from the unfortunate Gaping Plot Holes (tm),
some of which are mentioned above, the characterization of Sam Clemens
and his impression of the 24th century were really missing something.
Clemens, portrayed in the 19th century as being somewhat cynical about
humanity and its place in the universe, *accepts* Troi's happy joy speech
about the elimination of poverty and suffering?  The elimination of 
human traits such as cruelty and greed?  At the very least I expected
Clemens' response to be "How dreadfully boring it must be here" after
learning that evil is dead and the world had become Utopia, but instead
he accepted on blind faith without question the premise that humanity
had eliminated almost all of the traits which define humanity.

BEST QUOTE:  Picard's "And I'll see you in about two minutes."
From: z_clarkmj@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: My thoughts on TA II
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:05:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Sep29.090516.1239
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University


everything happened the way it was supposed to happen.
Nothing changed, nothing added.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current