From: lalonde@cis.ohio-state.edu (robert c lalonde)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.correct
Subject: Hate Crimes, Gay Bashing
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:12:40 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu

I have a few comments and questions.

Forgive my ignorance about all of this talk about "Hate Crimes", but is 
"hate-crime legislations" laws that are makeing a separate class of 
crimes (in other words a different charge, a different cause of arrest) or
is it meerly the introduction of hate (racism) as a type of motive and
an influence to sentancing?

Is there specific examples of these laws?

If this "hate-crime legislation" is meerly as a motive modification for 
sentancing, then I see no problems with it, as long as there is proof
of racism as a motive.  (Remember if I hate everyone, than I am not
racist.)  It appears to me that racism as a motive should however not
be treated any move strongly than say 'wanton disregard for human life
or saftey', or 'devaluation of human life in general'.  Ie. A serial killer
is obviously operating under a distorted view of the value of life.
Racism could also indicate 'lack of remorse'.  In other words if I walk the
streets killing African Americans, just because I dislike them, I should be
treated no differently than someone else who kills for the 'joy' of it and
shows no remorse.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for stiff punishment; I meerly believe that
it should be equal punishment. (I know it isn't always.)  For instance,
I see nothing wrong with looping off the heads of murderers, just so long
as all murderers face that possibility.

I would also like to point out why the Homosexuallity issue is a little
different.  The problem is a sexual insecurity issue, pure and simple.
I know that most 'gay' men that you would ask, would say that they
aren't attracted to 'straights', but that strikes me as just a tad 
unreasoning.  After all it is not like all 'gays' have big 'pink' signs
saying "Hey there, I am GAY!" and straights don't have signs to the 
effect "I am straight, I desire the opposite sex, KEEP AWAY!"  
You see statements to the effect, "I am not attracted to straights.",
make as much sense as me saying "I am not attracted to married women!"
If I see a picture of a woman and she isn't whering a ring, I might
find her attractive, and guess what....she could be married!

You see "straights" fear being propositioned by 'gays', or even worse
raped by them (Yes I know it is uncommen, but so is being bitten by
sharks and a lot of people are afraid of them.).  Because of this
there are a few things that can happen, like the classic "fight or
flight" reaction.  

ex. Gay to straight: Want to go out?
reactions:
	no, the opposite is more my type, don't ask again (possibly
	followed by "but we can stay friends."  (Enlightened)

	no, get away (possibly followed by running or walking away, or
	pushing the Gay some distance away)  (Flight)

	no, Punch, Bash (obsenity) (Fight)

Now, I am straight, and happy to say that I could pull off one of the
first two reactions, but if the gay was really persistant, I could end
up in the last.

There are a couple more reasons for violent reactions.

Fear of being called 'gay' yourself.

	You see not many men are secure enough to risk such alienation.
Not, many execpt the devoutly (obviously so) religious (I am a Christian)
can feel that they can be kind without being classed as a "fag lover".

I believe that 'gays' are wrong and in sin, but still God's children.

The Bible still says, "They shall know we are Christians by our love."

The idea is love is supposed to be stronger than fear, it can be, but
it requires work.

I don't condone, 'Gay Bashing', but I understand it.

Frankly, I think that laws aren't going to help.  I think the only thing
that can be done it to try to raise our children sure enough in their own
identity to not fear being kind to the outsider.  In other works schools
should attempt to teach 'love'.  The only way I believe that this can be
taught is through teaching belief systems, ie, Plato, Aristotle, Christ, ...
(Of course I would emphasize Christ.)  Right now the schools are teaching that
you are your own god, responsible only to yourself.  This sorry, to say 
reinforces devaluation of the 'other'.


	-Rob

(I am a Native American, Irish, and French mixture.  Strangly enough
I don't feel very PC. I am a Republican)

PS: I do fear that there will be a lot of deaths and injuries in the
military after the homosexuals are in by law.  I also fear non-active
(Celabit (sp?)) heterosexuals will be labeled gay or potentially so
and persecuted.  I see the day were virginity is equated to homosexuality.
Heaven help us.

--
Robert C. LaLonde (Rob)           |Internet: lalonde.6@osu.edu,
                                  |        : lalonde@cis.ohio-state.edu,
Computer Science Undergrad        |        : rlalonde@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Senior Year                       | or UUCP: osu-cis!lalonde
Vice-Chair of The Ohio State University Student Chapter of ACM.
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