HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 18:03:28 GMT

anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

>Simply put:
>	Basic (the programming language) is called Basic no matter who
>	wrote the interpreter/compiler as long as the language it 'speaks'
>	is even remotely close to Basic.

>MudOS is a ripoff created by TMI to get them some fame (personal opinion).

If you're really interested in knowing, you should sign on and meet the people
who are responsible for TMI and MudOS.  You'll notice people who are devoted
to the idea of FUN.  They wanna make the driver as efficient and as usable
as possible so that people can pretty much do what they want.  The old LPmud
driver by Lars, 3.1.2, was chock full of bugs and a lot of strange function
calls, but TMI cleaned all that up.  So, you are ripping on people that you
probably have never met and it seems that you also don't approve of change
if it is done by anyone else besides the creator.  In essence, I could write
the most powerful language in the world based on C and you wouldn't accept
in because I was not the original implementor?  

MudOS is NOT an attempt to gain fame.  And it cannot be considered a ripoff
since TMI freely accepts the notion that their inspiration was Lars Penji,
in fact, I'd say they embrace the idea that it is an LPmud more than anything
else.

(geez, look what happens when someone out there goes and tries to do
 something' nice..people get mad...sheesh)

****************************************************************************
MMMMM      MMMMM  Antony Chen aka MELVIN @ University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
 MMMM      MMMM   GO BLUE!!  THE FAB 5 RULES: Mama said knock you out! 
 MMM MM  MM MMM   Mud-related mail: tonychen@engin.umich.edu
 MMM  MMMM  MMM      Personal mail: Antony.Chen@um.cc.umich.edu
 MMM   MM   MMM          Misc mail: tchen@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu
MMMMM      MMMMM  ***********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: mmrakava@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu
Subject: Re: Amazon?
Keywords: Amazon
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:35:11 GMT

In article <sjryan.713684426@vincent1.iastate.edu> sjryan@iastate.edu (Sandra J Ryan) writes:
>This is a call to all of the old members of the UnderGround.  More in
[blah blah - deleted]
>Amazon?  Angus?  Ariel?  Cygnus?  Sleepmonger?  Iguana?  Pelmen?  BattleAxe?

>			--->--------  ShadowSpawn  --------<---

The Underground is now a domain in a mud called GateWay...it combined with 
another mud or something like that. Anyway, I know Ariel is still around (i'm a
wiz there, so is she) and Pelmen is a legend there and the others haven't been
around since February or March...You know...now I remember you from last fall!
Why don't you stop in and check the place out. It's gotten pretty cool lately.
Look me up. The name's Ridge.

Cheers!
Woody.

P.S. Everyone is invited to check out the mud, btw...not just Shadow! Very 
social, laid back kinda place...with a bit of everything.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Subject: Re: A relatively old mud...
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:04:55 GMT

pen@lysator.liu.se (Peter Eriksson) writes:
> Hi there is a relatively old mud on the scene that I wanted to post about,
> that is doing incredibly well.  In just 2 years we have gotten over 1000
> registered users.  We have more than 7500 rooms to explore, with 245 more
> areas being built on.  We have a metaphysician, although we call him the
> ArchWizard (this wont allow single-classed characters to trade exp points for
> stats, hitpoints, freedom from hunger/thirst, mana, etc.  We have a multilevel
> system... you can be up to 20 levels (21 upon request)... We have over 3
> spells, no skills (including polymorph, resurrection, dodge, berserk, astral
> walk, and many many more).  And we have a really nice playing environment,
> all of our users seem to be very friendly, and helpful.

> Anyways, if you would like to give it a try the number is 
> telnet mud.lysator.liu.se 2000
> or
> telnet 130.236.254.1

Another idiot who didn't mention the type of the mud. He also forgot
to post it by hand to all newsgroups that one could think of.

Let me tell you about a Oldish mud....

++Anipa
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
--
From: jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:02:17 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, G|teborg, Sweden

In article <1992Aug13.023104.24530@cs.tu-berlin.de> amylaar@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (J"orn Rennecke) writes:
>The game should only reboot when the driver is changed. And then, you can't
>use old binaries anyway...

Machine crashes, service, level 1 backups, extensive mods in the
mudlib, unwanted creations by wizards, lack of memory, memory
fragmentation, machine owner wants to run his daily FEM job, mud is
closed during office hours. Just to mention a few reasons for
rebooting.

>If it weren't for this flashy hard disk light, ' wouldn't even notice this
>'compilation horizon' on my home machine. Compilation of the rooms and screen
>ouput have about the same speed.

Perhaps you should take all parameters into account. The relation
between disk speed and CPU speed would for instance affect your
mileage. 

>Hmm, the algorithm is often indicated by the function/variable names

This is not true of the parts of your code that I have examined closely. 
Neither is this practice very useful, since naming conventions,
algorithm names etc differ between different countries, different
branches in CS and even between different authors from the same site
of learning.

>Should I include comments with a bibliography? I'm often surprised that
>some standard algorithms not known to the reader.

Yes, that would certainly be helpful. Actually you put less
documentation in code that you make available for anonymous ftp than I
do in code that I'm the only one who will ever read.
Programming is just as much about producing readable code as it is
about producing efficient programs to run. Maybe even more about
making readable code, since we have compilers that take care of quite
a bit of the efficiency problem. Maybe you have heard about the
software crisis, this is really what the crisis is all about.

>If i had a simplistic style to express algorithms in code, it wouldn't be
>as fast as it is when it is written with the entire gamedriver in mind.

I beg to differ. I have seen an enormous amount of student code, and
invariably the shortest and clearest is also the fastest.

>Modifying... the CD driver has deleted some code, added new one, but the
>core of the driver was hardly ever touched. You are carrying along old bugs
>in hundrets. To get a stable & functional gamedriver, some basic
>redesign has to be applied.

I agree that some radical measures are needed to get a stable and functional 
gamedriver. However, code that is hard to read will not bring us
closer to that goal, and as the gamedriver evolves in the future it
will take us even further from the goal.

Jacob Hallen
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Subject: Re: CFD: mandala
Keywords: LPC
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:27:36 GMT

amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke) writes:


>From time to time, you have an algorithm with a structure that won't fit nicely
>in the classic paradigm of 'structured programming'. One of these structures
>resembles a mandala.

>A prominent example of a mandala-structure is iterative rebalancing of
>avl-trees after a deletion.

Ahh yes, another classic article.  I will store it up and frame it
right away.  Now where did I put that frame?

Great Amylaar, there are structes you cant handle in LPC.  Wonderful,
how many times in a normal day of LPC using do you not use a cludge?
Personaly I odnt htink IU have written many objects that did not contain
at least one cludge.  What is your point?  Are you suggesting we all
give up on LPC immediately and throw outselevs to the sharks?  ARe you
maybe impling that just because we hadnt thought of this amazingly
relevant thingy we are stupid?

If you post something like this, at least include a punch line.

David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.

PS Getting very tired of driver wars.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Subject: Re: A relatively old mud...
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:54:44 GMT

jsbazine@garfield.waterloo.edu (Steve Bazinet) writes:
> In article 92Aug18130455@korppi.cs.tut.fi, anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:
> >Another idiot who didn't mention the type of the mud. He also forgot
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     
> >to post it by hand to all newsgroups that one could think of.

> Considering the article is posted to rec.games.mud.lp, should give any idiot an 
>                                                    ^^^
> indication of what kind of mud it is.  This newsgroup is for LPmuds and nothing
> else.

a) It's not like I sent that without a *grin*
b) It's not like the article I responded to wasn't written with a *grin*
   (did you ever read it)

++Anipa, Some men you just can't reach ...
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: amylaar@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (J"orn Rennecke)
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:07:19 GMT

d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan Andersson) writes:

>In article <mmcg.713685200@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au> mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
>
>> d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan Andersson) writes:
>>
>> >the long uptimes? To my knowledge noone has yet fixed the fact that memory
>> >is lost when compilation fails.
>>
>> Pah!  We fixed it nearly 2 years ago, AND sent the code to you lot.
>>
>Then its in there and we are seeing ghosts. I've been hunting leaks for
>to long... *sulk*
When you've hunted so long, why didn't you kill the one you have in
restore_array and restore_mapping for the case that the save_file is
corrupt? I think it's quite obvious.


	amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: royle@highland.manassas.ibm.com (Matthew Royle x4553 highland)
Subject: Help! I need access to the Muds!
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 12:03:23 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Keywords: stranded, moved, lost access, Virginia area.



   Hello there.... This is a plea for help...  I have recently moved, and
now I no longer have access to telnet and mudding...  Is there ANYONE that
reads this that is coming in from George Washington university, or a
university/college/organization that is a local call from the Fairfax
Virginia area that could give me some information?  Please respond if you do.
  Thankyou.
     -Matthew Royle
      royle@manvmd1.vnet.ibm.com

    rastafan@genocide, after hours, overdrive, allanite, etc....

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: darius@rajeesh.WPI.EDU (Christopher J Scanlon)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Summary: Ouch, to think of ten good muds...
Keywords: opinions opinions opinions
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:52:13 GMT

Well, I've been mudding for a while now, and unfortunately a lot of the
muds i REALLY liked have all died [Vampyre was just a party mud, Nightmare's
split in two now, and I *DO NOT* mean Shadowwolf's new Nightmare, I mean
the old one, Spudmud was great as well...]

I might not be able to give you ten, but I can definately give you 5 that
I think are the best.

1)  Valhalla.   Speaking of which, SOMEONE SAVE THIS MUD IT IS BEING EVICTED.
And I thought it would be up for ages, it was the reason I fought like hell
to get out of being a newbie and kept playing.
2)  Genocide.   Have to give it an A for originality, and it's a great place
to go when you're just sick of the world.
3)  Paradox.    Just started off there, but I'm impressed already, I like
it there and when Valhalla goes down Sunday, it's probably where I'll be
until I find out Valhalla has a new site.
4)  Ancient Anguish.   The people there are damn good, they have a lot of
great ideas and they've never stopped implimenting more and growing.
5)  Tie : Aegolous Acadicus & Phoenix.   Ok, so I'm a LITTLE bit biased
towards Phoenix, Nightmare was the first mud I ever played on and I consider
Phoenix to be the REAL spinoff of the mud.  Maybe because all the arches
from Nightmare, Flamme, Balack, Leopard, and Forlock (I better not have
missed any) went there instead of the new Nightmare.   Aegolous Acadicus
deserves some merit too, it was probably the first time in over two months
that I had fun on a mud enough that I wanted to play to wizard.

Note, you're not going to see places like Genesis or TMI here.  TMI I don't
really consider a mud, though it's a great learning institution for coding.
Genesis isn't a mud anymore either, and if someone can tell me what it is,
I'll be overly happy.  When a wizard tells me something and I have to SHOUT
my response... you know it's just getting a bit too complicated (I hadn't
been "introduced" to this wizard and hadn't "remembered" who it was.)

There might be a lot of muds out there that I missed, I don't play them all.
I've heard good things about a lot of muds which probably deserve credit,
such as Vincent's Hollow and Abacus, but since I don't play on either, I 
can't really give an opinion on them... can I?  :)

Christopher Scanlon : darius@wpi.wpi.edu : Darius @ Aegolous Acadicus
Daroki @ Phoenix, Ancient Anguish, Paradox, and Valhalla






Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: tim@shovel.Prime.COM (Tim Cantin)
Subject: Re: WIZARDS WANTED
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.lp
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:30:15 GMT

So much for that mud. I get this after typing name and passwd (even as Guest):

Error in loading object
program: secure/login.c, object: secure/login#255 line 303

Please let us know when this is fixed. :)
-T

-- 
#include "stddisclaimer.h"
/* Tim Cantin          {uunet, csnet-relay}!primerd!tim || tim@s35.prime.com
   Prime Computer Inc. 10-21, 500 Old Conn. Path, Framingham, MA 01701 (USA) */
flames > /dev/null 2>&1
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:15:47 GMT
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg

djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:

>>>c) you should thing about exploiting the clean_up feature more

>Er, not to get in the way of your wonderful fight, but this reminded
>me of something that seemed inefficient to me.  Namely, the way
>swapping works.  What happens (in standard 3.1.2) is that after
>swapping in some code, the portion it occupied in the swap file
>can never be used again.  Not really a big deal, but over time,
>the swap file can get *huge*.  Especially when time to swap is
>low in order to save memory...

That's one of the gaping holes in the gamedriver...
About a dozen FIT_STYLES to choose from, and there will be probably one of
these that makes all other useless...
I think a good candidate for a start might be FIRST_FIT/ROVER with special
administration blocks that form a bayer tree, and which, in turn, have a bayer
tree as inner structure, with the maximum blocksize of the subtree as extra
pruning information in each node of each level.

Alas, i'm not sure how much dimensions the tree structure in the blocks
should actually have, or if it needs to be configurable.
( small differences in block size, say 1024 ... 16384, could be handled
  with similar structures )

Here's a question for all you mud administartors out there....
what would be a good blocking size for your machine? It should definitely
not be smaller that a physical block on the disk.
Should probably so large that any larger block will need more time for read
and write operations.

	amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Keywords: more opinions opinions opinions
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 00:16:31 GMT

darius@starbird.WPI.EDU (Christopher J Scanlon) writes:

>problems as well.  I attacked two players on my visit to Genesis and never
>even knew they were player characters.

Hee!  And this is how it _should_ be!

The ultimate competitive gaming environment would be one in which
your NPCs are smart enough to look a lot like PCs - in fact, they
should look *enough* like PCs that you have a hard time deciding
whether to attack them.

Of course, your tastes may vary - many people want a relaxing hack 'n
slash, and don't want to have to make these sort of value judgements,
but...

>are like, Genesis is hacked to the point where it should be something else
>[in a different way than say, UriMUD was]  The realism factor might have
>been a nice goal, but I think it alienates new players far too much to be
>really effective and from what I've heard, there's been a drop in players
>on Genesis since it went to the new mudlib.

Oh, no, there's just a range of LPmuds and Genesis is one.  I went and
took a look at Genesis at one stage; I was reasonably impressed.  The
world is very tight, very limited to "realism".  Play involves more
skill than the old worlds required - you need to _work_ to make social
connections, etc.  If you want a mud to play serious games on, where
developing social power structures and hierachies is a nontrivial part
of the game for a successful player, Genesis is an interesting choice.

Cheers,

    Mike.
--
Mike McGaughey			AARNET:	mmcg@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au

"Head stompin', ass kickin', finger licking nastiness"
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: darius@wpi.WPI.EDU (Christopher J Scanlon)
Subject: Re: Paradox is ...err, down
Summary: By the Gods doesn't this figure?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:03:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.174754@shovel.Prime.COM> tim@shovel.Prime.COM (Tim Cantin) writes:
>Paradox (128.109.143.15 10478) will be down until they get it fixed. :)
>Sorry for the confusion.
>-T
>

Doesn't it figure, give a mud an accolade, and have it go down within 12
hours of speaking kindly of it.  I just hope that Zor doesn't come on and
say that Ancient Anguish is going down too :(
Guess I'm going to have to find another place to play around again...
send suggestions through email :)  A good word from someone is better
than throwing a dart at the mudlist :)

Christopher Scanlon : darius@wpi.wpi.edu : Darius @ Aegolous Acadicus
Daroki @ PhoenixMUD, Valhalla, Ancient Anguish, and Paradox

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: Petri.Virkkula@hut.fi (Petri Virkkula)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<ANIPA.92Aug21165011@sotka.cs.tut.fi>
	<1992Aug21.180328.18501@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:09:34

On Fri, 21 Aug 92 18:03:28 GMT, chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen) said:

Antony> anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

>Simply put:
>	Basic (the programming language) is called Basic no matter who
>	wrote the interpreter/compiler as long as the language it 'speaks'
>	is even remotely close to Basic.

>MudOS is a ripoff created by TMI to get them some fame (personal opinion).


Antony> MudOS is NOT an attempt to gain fame.  And it cannot be considered a ripoff
Antony> since TMI freely accepts the notion that their inspiration was Lars Penji,
Antony> in fact, I'd say they embrace the idea that it is an LPmud more than anything
Antony> else.

	IMHO MudOS was made public too early, it just made confusion.
	It would have been fine if they have made their 
	bugfixes/enchantments public as diffs against the Lars
	version.

	Currently it doesn't matter as there are so many other
	versions and most LpMUD admins have already hacked their
	drivers.

	Even though they can talk MudOS as another version of LpMUD
	why they had to make totally different name? A postfix to
	LpMUD would have been enough.


	Just my opinions,

	Petri
--
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Petri Virkkula             |    email : Petri.Virkkula@hut.fi
       J{mer{ntaival 11 H 168     |            pvirkkul@niksula.cs.hut.fi
       02150 Espoo                |            pvirkkul@nic.funet.fi
       FINLAND                    |    Phone : +358 0 455 1277
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Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: rdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Roger B. Dubbs III)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Keywords: opinions opinions opinions
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:31:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Aug14.183116.7709
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

In article <Bsy271.518@wpi.WPI.EDU> darius@rajeesh.WPI.EDU (Christopher J Scanlon) writes:

>Genesis isn't a mud anymore either, and if someone can tell me what it is,
>I'll be overly happy.  When a wizard tells me something and I have to SHOUT
>my response... you know it's just getting a bit too complicated (I hadn't
>been "introduced" to this wizard and hadn't "remembered" who it was.)

Well, just for those who might try Genesis...the actual command is
"commune".  If you shout, you might get a wizard, but only if he happens
to be located one room away. 8)

We probably do need "tell" to give the name of the telling wizard,
because there is a reasonable expectation the player might want to
reply.

I do resent the implication we aren't a mud any more.  Certainly we are
trying to have a much more complex role-playing system than was possible
under original Genesis, but the central thrust of the game is much the
same.  (Kill monsters and solve Quests, hopefully with emphasis on the
latter)

/Roger

PS.  If Genesis interests you, despite Chris's remarks, feel free to come try
us.  We are at milou.cd.chalmers.se 2000.  I highly recommend you read
through the gameinfo screen before you play.  It nicely summarizes some
of the command changes which have taken place.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp