From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: DATA: largest world economies
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:12:30 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec14.190956.24659@athena.mit.edu>, joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang) writes:
> My point is
> 
> Changing name -> No change in cost/benefit to other governments ->
>    No change in how other governments treat you

My point is 
  Change name -> Gradually change Taiwan international status  ->
	-> Change the cost/benefit 
	-> Change how other government treat us.
Here "treat us", means they recognize Taiwan is not part of China.
It seem to me you amplify the effect of China's power too much.
China is very powerful indeed, but that doesn't mean Taiwan and the
whole international society will not change without a yes from China.
We, people in Taiwan, may have hard time, but we will be gradually
on our own way.

 
> North Cyprus has had de facto administrative control of a third of
> Cyprus since 1974.  Polasario retains effective control of most of the
> Western Sahara.  Indonesia has de facto control over East Timor even
> though the U.N. recognizes Portugese sovereignty.
> 
	Maybe my last question was not very clear.  Do all of those
	separate regions have their own passports and Olympic teams	 		        each of them representing only for that area? 
  
>	2) The term "separate" in my opionion is misleading.  Taiwan
> >	(in your term: ROC) is already an independent country; 
> 
> You are looking at things from the view of a Taiwanese.  Try to look
> at things from the point of view of a member of the government of
> Zaire. 

	I am proud of being a Taiwanese, so I would look at things
	from the point of views of a Taiwanese.

> If Zaire recognizes the existence of either an ROC or ROT over
> the objections of the PRC, then it will set a precedent that someday
> someone will recognize Katanga over the objections of a government of
> Zaire.  That's the cost.  What's the benefit to Zaire?
> 
	In this case, Zaire might not want to admit Taiwan, but
	not every country in the world has this problem.

> The same hold true for just about every other government in the world.
> In order to figure out what a government will do, you have to stop
> thinking like a Taiwanese, and start thinking like an American, a
> Russian, or an Indian.
> 
	We do our part to improve Taiwan.  If Taiwan progresses rapidly,
	other country will see their benefit.  It's unrealistic try to
	guess what other countries will think of Taiwan.
> 
> >	I am not proposing that.  I am proposing that admitting Taiwan is only
> >a part of China is a dead end for Taiwan.   
> 
> Not if PRC agrees to it, and if PRC doesn't agree then all paths are
> dead ends.  U.S. and Japan are more than willing to recognize both PRC
> and ROC.  Remember that PRC has a Security Council veto.  It can
> prevent the admission of any state it doesn't like.  It can also stop
> UN action to help Taiwan fight off an invasion.
> 
> Also, PRC can live with ROC.  No one know how it will react to ROT.
>  
	You are doing that again.  China is powerful indeed, but not as
	powerful as you might have thought. PRC government says
	it can live with ROC now, but maybe two years later it
	will change its mind.   So what PRC decides  to do should
	not be the basis for planning Taiwan's future.

> >	Really, only very few people are aware of there is a country
> >called ROC, but many people know Taiwan.   
> 
> If that's the problem, then publicize ROC more.
> 
> >> The interpretation is that ROC is the de facto government of part of
> >> China just like the ROK is the de facto government of part of Korea.
> >> 
> >	That's an interpretation most people come from Taiwan won't accept.
> 
> How do you know?  The polls that I have seen posted and the election
> results suggest that most Taiwanese either like the name ROC or else
> don't care about ROC/ROT so long as the government (whatever it is
> called) acts in Taiwan's interests and doesn't use the name as an
> excuse to prevent democracy.
> 
	People like ROC are mainly KMT.  People who don't care show
they want the government to act in Taiwan's interests, which is the same
thing as I am proposing. 

Is the use of ROC acting in Taiwan's interests?  NO!!! No way!  It cannot
prevent China from invading Taiwan, but only leave an excuse that Taiwan
is part of China and PRC can do whatever it want to part of its territory.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan