HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Family Leave Act
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:55:50 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <BvnH9q.5vH@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:
>In article <ted.718056682@sage0> ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying) writes:
>On to a larger question.  Several posters have proposed that the U.S.
>would be a better place if employers were free to avoid hiring women
>of childbearing age because of their increased risk of maternity
>leave.  Do the people who support this idea also support

I have to agree with whoever proposed the question of hiring
women of child-bearing age.  I have worked in environments where
women of child-bearing age were in important positions.  I worked
for one company of approx. 35 employees.  There was a woman in her
30's, who was THE programmer.  Another woman was head of Operations,
and in her 30's.  Then another woman, in her late 20's, was head of 
customer support.  In the course of a year, each of these women
got pregnant, and was out of the office for approx 3 months each, 
at a time.  Now, what could we tell customers who had computer
bugs or who needed custom programming?  Sorry, "Ellen" is on
maternity leave, and she won't be back for two months.  We'll
get to you then....    Then, when the head of support was out, the
Programmer had to assume her support duties, thereby cutting programming
that needed to be done.  
In a small company, if key people leave, to have babies, it puts an
enormous burden on the remaining employees, and in a lot of cases, 
it can cost clients, because they can't get things fixed.  In certain
industries, if your support is bad, word gets around, and this costs
you future business because of your bad reputation in the support field. 
And can anyone explain to me why a woman has to take two months off to
have a baby?  
Women want equality in the workforce, and they say they want to have 
jobs and careers.  But then, they take time off to have babies.  They
leave work early if their kids get sick at school, and have to be
picked up.   They don't show up at all if it snows, and school is
cancelled, or they have to leave early if it starts snowing and it's
announced that schools will close early.  If a woman wants to have a 
youngun, then have it.  Take up to a week off [if you had a cesarian]
and get back to work.  Let's face it; if you want a career, then 
support it.  A company hires a person to work for them because they
need the help.  If you want the job, then you ought to work the hours
you are expected to work.  If you want to be a mother to your children,
then stay home, and let someone work who will be at work everyday.
--Keith

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins)
Subject: Strange Interviewing question 
Distribution: world
Organization: Job hunters use Parachute
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:24:19 +0000


In article <92gksB4w164w@cellar.org> toad@cellar.org writes:

> The one thing I didn't ask you was what you consider to be a good ANSWER.
> I'm sort of interested in knowing whether you'd consider MY answer to be
> good, but I can't remember the exact question.  I think it was something
> like "How do you go about debugging?"  My answer would be "It depends
> entirely on the nature of the code to be debugged, the platform in use, the
> available tools, my familiarity with the code, and any potential customer's
> requirements."  How'd I do, boss?

You pass that test. You're answer is reasoned. You really ought to hear the
answers that I'm usually given. No I won't inflict them upon the net. :-)
No there's one I must repeat (from a first-class honour's graduate) "I don't
need to debug my programs"! Okay here's another (also from a holder of a
first) "What's debugging?" and no they did not mean as a joke!

> > There is one other piece of information I expect prospective candidates to
> > know which is where I got MY computer science degree from. :-;
> 
> Holy mother of pearl, are you serious?

Why not? It's a matter of public record.

Let me recount a little story:

Scene: Recent graduate visiting an IBM office for a job interview.

Interview asks first question: "What do the letters I B M stand for?"

Interviewee: "Uh. Dunno"

End of interview

Now that's what I call a good interview question! :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Jenkins                                   Radio: G6AJG
134 Frankland Rd, Croxley Green, Rickmansworth, WD3 3AU
email: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)923 776436
From: zheng@brahms.udel.edu (Xian-Feng Zheng)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Info needed on headhunters
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:26:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw3AsD.GnJ
Organization: University of Delaware

Can anyone there kindly tell me headhunters at Newark and Dover, Delaware?
Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Allen & Associates (Headhunters)
Originator: schwartz@baba
Keywords: headhunt, job search
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 13:52:32 GMT


Headhunters do -not- generally charge the employee.
They are paid by the company, either a prenegotiated flat fee,
or contingency based upon the employee's salary offer.
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
From: df2tg2n@ties.bell-atl.com (Steve Rosen)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Is this a good question to ask?
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:48:51 GMT
Reply-To: df2tg2n@shoes.bell-atl.com
Organization: Bell Atlantic - Phila, PA


Tell me if you think this is a reasonable thing to ask on a job interview:

Suppose you have an interview and you ask, "Is this a new position or are
you filling a slot for somebody who left?"  Suppose they say they are
filling a slot for somebody who left, does it make sense to ask why that
person left?  Not that I would expect a totally honest answer, but you
probably could tell a lot about the position from the *way* he answered.

What do you think?

-- 
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             Steve Rosen / Consultant @ Bell Atlantic, Phila, PA
               {Voice}: (215) 466-2061, {FAX}: (215) 563-0517
                     E-Mail: steve.rosen@bell-atl.com

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: stefano@ecf.toronto.edu (Bruno Di Stefano)
Subject: Manpower Second Sourcing (Re: Family Leave Act)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:12:59 GMT

In article <143@cnmhnet.UUCP> keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:
>In article <Oct09.182949.69095@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ottj@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Jim Ott) writes:
>>In article <140@cnmhnet.UUCP>, keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:
>>|>   ... [stuff deleted] ...
>>worked through. What does a small company do when someone gets sick?
>Come on, Jim.  There is a big difference in a company if someone gets
>sick, and when someone is out for two months or more on "pregnancy
>leave".  People are usually out sick for a couple of days.  This isn't
>a big burden on any company.  It may be an inconvenience, but it
>isn't understandable.  Someone staying out for twomonths or more
>         .   .............      .............              ....... 
>order to train it.  What happens to the company in the meantime?
>
What happens to the company:
- when a key engineer/manager dies because of a car accident?
-  "   "  "     "       "       "    "     "  an heart attack?
-  "   "  "     "       "     decides that he had enough and quits to open
   a photographic studio?
- when all engineers quit on the same day to start a new company
  (in a non competing field: they couldn't be taken to court)?
- because of high job pressure 3 engineers quit in spite of the fact that
  they have no other job and are not ready to go back under any condition?

All of the above are real life cases, that have provided me with very good
consulting/contracting opportunities: I was the saviour. Of course, I 
always took advantage of the situation from a financial point of view. 

All of the above companies were extremely vulnerable because they were 
single-sourced. A bit of redundancy, within reasonable limits, saves
a lot of money. It is like an insurancei: most of the time you pay 
without needing it, but, when you need it, if you don't have it....

In the last few years the case of the key employee having a crises
and dropping completely out of the profession has been fairly
frequent here in Toronto. I have seen very successful engineers
becoming real estate agents, building managers, and (in one instance)
travel agents. Those are all jobs were hours are much shorter than 
in engineering, at least here in Toronto. They were all cases of burnout. 

Solutions?

-- 
Bruno Di Stefano
stefano@ecf.toronto.edu		(course related matters)
bruno@ecf.toronto.edu		(professional matters)
From: cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Bargaining for vacation time?
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:46:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1419@pacsoft.com> mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik) writes:
>In an article, cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver) writes:
>>If we do not get the situation under control soon, we will have armed
>>anarchy.
>
>I doubt it.
>
>(Pardon me while I climb up on my soapbox ...)
>
>The more that you demand from your government to do for you what you do not
>want to do for yourself, the more it will cost. The more that you want the

... deleted

The situation refered to was the Government and its runaway spending.  I am
afraid of slipping into a banana republic SITUATION.  I want the government
to quit doing things period.  We are spending almost 50% more than we take
in; money is being diverted from production to pay welfare (includes 
social security and defense WELFARE! ).

>-- 
>Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (714) 681-2623
>Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA


-- 
Craig Shaver  (cshaver@informix.com for now) (415)390-0654 (415)926-6407
Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA  94088
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: jcelam@confused (James Clifton Elam)
Subject: SQL, C: Cary NC, Full Time
Keywords: Sybase, EDI, NeXT
Reply-To: jcelam%confused@glv.com
Organization: Encompass
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:56:40 GMT

Encompass, a well funded startup backed by two fortune 100 companies is 
in the business of providing logistics solutions to major international
corporations.  We're located in Cary, NC. (Town slogan: A nice place to 
raise a family.  No kidding.)

Our group uses an in-house developed application, on the NeXT, to develop 
EDI transactions for our customers.  We make extensive use of NeXT
workstations and VAX networks.

			You must:

1> Learn quickly

2> Write SQL easily- a few years experience, preferably Sybase

3> Deal with Unix and VMS - good user knowledge is essential
                          - programming a plus

4> Work easily with large databases - lots of tables and data
                                    - very complex data model

5> Have Past programming experience in a structured 3gl - C, Pascal, ...
        This isn't a programming position but you have to be 
        able to think like a programmer to function around here!

6> Have Hotshot analysis skills - 'nuff said!

7> Want to have (IMHO) the best workstation in the world on your desk!

			 I'd like:

1> Good sense of humor - obviously

2> Ability to work under pressure without losing temper (too often :-)

3> Some knowledge of EDI - please at least know what the initials 
                           mean before calling!

4> OOPS would be nice - our application is written in Objective-C
                        on the NeXT

5> Some exposure to large scale systems architecture.

Please call (collect is ok) or e-mail and I'll be glad to tell you 
more about our company and what we do.

[This isn't a 'blessed by Human Resources' posting.]
[If I make any boo-boos it's my fault, etc....     ]


--
James "Cliff" Elam   | jcelam%confused@glv.com - NeXT mail!
(919) 380-6522 (v,w) | NeXTStep/Intel + IB + DBKit @ $200 !
From: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Family Leave Act
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:11:20 GMT
Reply-To: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: The unofficial LSU news node
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-4603]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu

In article <ted.718659806@sage0>, ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying) writes...
>In article <1992Oct6.230142.10953@cs.tulane.edu> coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE) writes:
> 
>>whereas in the U.S. I might want to know when comparing two offers,
>>but I'd be a fool to inquire now, wouldn't I?
>>
>	Hmmm...in each of the places that I've interviewed, a portion
>	of the interview was with a Human Resources or Personnel
>	staff member who was there to answer any potential benefits
>	or company policy questions.

Ah, now this was true when I interviewed with a "company", but it didn't
happen each of the (two) times I've interviewed with a university.

>	I also think that it is reasonable to request an interview
>	with a human resources staff member to ask benefits questions.
>	Or to perhaps ask for the phone number of a such a person.
>	This way you can ask questions about the varying benefits
>	offered by the company in question.

This is a good idea and I will probably do it if and when the need
arises during my job search in California.

But what if, and yes I'm being paranoid here, the benefits person
"reports" that I inquired about maternity leave?  I'm sure it would
be easier to simply ask for the benefits package and read it at my
leisure, but I checked the LSU book and it was very vague and sketchy
on the issue of maternity leave.  It implies that none is available,
but since I've been here a number of women have taken up to two months
of leave.

I guess my original point was that in Canada where the leave is
mandated I don't have to feel like I'm a bad employee if my husband
and I decide to start a family.  Maternity leave seems to have been
factored in as one of the costs of doing business.

Laura Carriere
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pchi@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Eric Chi)
Subject: Good reason for a few days' off
Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:38:32 GMT

Hi,

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: Strange Interviewing question 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:24:55 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <719000030snx@apusapus.demon.co.uk> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:
>
>In article <Bw0z9J.2BE@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com writes:
>
>> 
>> In article <718662216snx@apusapus.demon.co.uk> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk
>> (Trevor Jenkins) writes:
>
>> >manager during interviews she hates it when I ask the candidate "How do YOU
>> >debug a program?" As my boss cannot program she thinks that there is a
>
>> >What I have found odd is that in the five or six years that I've been
>> >involved in interviews and the 100s of interviews that I've given I've
>> >never gotten a student with a computer science or computing degree to give
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >me a sensible answer; the only person who did give me a good answer was a 
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >physicist and she got the job.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>     I think the rationale behind your question is quite simple: you have 
>>     difficulty producing a clean piece of design/code, hence you tend to 
>>     over-emphasize the importance of one's debugging skills.
>

>I deliberately omitted saying that ALL these interviews where for positions
>in our support division. Much of their effort goes into answering customer
>queries over the phone. Therefore the ability to debug is crucial; or you
>could read it as "diagnose the cause of the problem". 

    You previous article left an impression that you were interviewing
    people for a software-engineering position.  I've been in this business
    for 17 years, and yet to meet an engineer with solid design/development 
    skills who would not know how to debug a program.  Consequently, if I were 
    to ask a single question during an interview, it would not be about debugging.

    When it comes to customer support, and here I agree with you, good 
    troubleshooting skills are most important.


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How to answer these contract head hunters
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:20:49 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 11087@netcom.com, sbale@netcom.com (Swamy S. Bale) writes:
>
>My questions are:
>
>1. How they get access to my resume( I never heard of them before).

Sometimes they are passed from one agency to another, usually without the
first agency being aware of it.  Sometimes, someone
who was working at an agency gets fired and takes them to another agency.

>2. Is this legal for one firm(to whom I have sent my resume) to pass
>   my resume to other?

Legal yes, ethical probably no.

>3. Are these contract people are a bunch of scam artists?

Some are scam, most are not.  They are all out to make a buck.

>4. Does it really helpful to send resume to a contract agency? (I never
>   got any call second time from them?)

Sometimes, if they have a match for you.  Sometimes they just keep the
resume on file.

>5. Are these contract agency people technically qualified?

Some are, some aren't.  Some were selling shoes last week.

Many of these sales folks are only able to match buzzwords and numbers.
They want Turbo C on DOS 3.3 with 3+ years; Microsoft C on DOS 5.0 does not 
match.

>6. Actualy what are they trying to do by calling me, even though they don't
>   have any contracts in hand?

They want to have your resume on file so that they can respond when they 
have a contract inquiry.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
From: danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik)
Subject: Re: Strange Interviewing question
Keywords: interview,career,preferred job
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:09:47 GMT

In article <int559r.718495844@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au> int559r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Misha Verplak) writes:
>	My girlfriend went to an interview recently for a receptionist
>position in a (small) printing/publishing firm, and the interviewer
>asked her:
>   "If I offered you any job in the world, provided that it would not be
>a receptionist or secretary, what job would you prefer?"
>	The question excluded the job offered, so what was she really
>trying to ask?
>

    Giving the interviewer the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he or she
was just trying to get an insight into your girlfriend's personality.

Dan
From: chakrava@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Maternity leaves in civilized countries
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:39:29 GMT
Expires: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Reply-To: chakrava@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: chakrava@eecae.ee.msu.edu

NOTE- THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO AN ARTICLE POSTED WITH ABOVE SUBJECT.

Since the list only included about 10 countries in Europe and North America,
am I correct in assuming that the other 147 countries in the world are
"barbaric" as opposed to "civilized?"
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: gbm@jmp.com (Gary B. McKenney - Interface Solutions Inc.)
Subject: Looking for opportunity in Romania
Organization: JMP & Associates, Ltd. - Atlanta, Ga.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:38:51 GMT

I am looking for opportunities in Romania near the city of IASI (Yosh).

I am asking if anyone knows of universities or businesses which have programs
in Romania.

My personal skills are centered on programming C on PC's as well as Microsoft
Windows.  

I would like to think that perhaps these skills are needed.

Obviously, I'm not going there because of the money.

Gary McKenney
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Family Leave Act
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:20:59 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <Oct09.182949.69095@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> ottj@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Jim Ott) writes:
>In article <140@cnmhnet.UUCP>, keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:
>|>   ... [stuff deleted] ...
>worked through. What does a small company do when someone gets sick?
Come on, Jim.  There is a big difference in a company if someone gets
sick, and when someone is out for two months or more on "pregnancy
leave".  People are usually out sick for a couple of days.  This isn't
a big burden on any company.  It may be an inconvenience, but it
isn't understandable.  Someone staying out for twomonths or more
after they have had a kid is functioning without any regard for
their fellow employees who have to take up the slack [if possible]
while they are gone.  They are also not thinking on the ramifications
on what their absence may mean to the company.  I know of one company,
that had one trainer.  She was female, and went out on Maternity leave.
After two months, she asked for another month leave.  She got it, and
was even paid for it.  At the end of the third month, she decided that
she couldn't leave her baby with anyone else, so  she quit.  The company
had done without her services for 3 months, and now they had to all of
a sudden start the search process for a replacement, who when hired, 
would need training and time to get up to speed on the product, in 
order to train it.  What happens to the company in the meantime?
No, I still maintain that if you want to work, then work.  If you 
want to be a mother or house-husband, then do it.  But don't try
to mix the two.  It doesn't work.
--Keith


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: BL.JYC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: what's a nice place? Places in the US
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:37:21 GMT

   I'd advise the original poster of this inquiry to be hesitant
about moving to Los Angeles.  Did you ever see the movie "Blade
Runner"?  Many people naively assume that the Los Angeles portrayed
in that film was a fictional, futuristic place created with movie
studio special effects.  But as a matter of fact, as anyone who has
ever been there will recognize, the film was actually shot on real
location in today's Los Angeles, and what we were seeing were
actual typical everyday neighborhood scenes in today's LA.  Too bad
it won't live.
From: cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Family Leave Act
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:42:16 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1b4b0oINNkrj@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak) writes:
>
>   Wow.  I'm speechless.  If you're married, I feel sorry for your
>wife.  If you're not, here's some advice: thoroughly discuss your
>opinions on marriage (as outlined above) with anybody you're
>considering marrying.  If you both still want to go ahead with it,
>you deserve each other.  And I hope for the best for all the
>"fatherless" children you have.
>--
>Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst

I do not think personal attacks are in order.  Especially from PC types who
always take the 'high road'.  Why not just make a compeling counter 
argument?

-- 
Craig Shaver  (cshaver@informix.com for now) (415)390-0654 (415)926-6407
Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA  94088