HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley)
Subject: Re: looking for relationships
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:10:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.200308.7435@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:

>
>I know there's a Zen koan in there somewhere, but I think I had too much
>champagne for New Year's and danced naked with a lampshade on my head too many
>times to figure it out today.  :)

do you have pictures?? ;-) hi ed, how you doin?? happy 93 to you.
sally

>Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177
>1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
>full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
>and the world will follow our lead into the future.  --Adolf Hitler


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: slator@ils.nwu.edu (Brian Slator)
Subject: Re: What people do in their lives
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:46:15 GMT

In article <1i86a1INN7a3@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.95@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>
>Welcome, Suzanna. You're perfectly free to post here, and no, you're not
>intruding at all.
>
>Your question about "what people do in their lives" is one I've struggled
>with lately. I do not feel very comfortable being in a lot of
> social situations 
>because I'm not interested in the most of the things other people are.
>I can't tell you that it's fine or not fine to spend most of your free time
>at home. I feel better emotionally when I can stay at home and
> sort things out, 
>but it hurts my self-esteem if I can't relate to people well, so I'm working
>on that as well. That may be a little confused; I guess since I don't
>have advice I guess I wanted to say "uh-huh, I'm dealing with that too".

	I grew up in a large midwestern city, out in the
suburbs. Most every summer the family took a trip of some sort,
and this usually meant long days of riding in the car, staring
out the window.
	We'd pass through little towns in Nebraska, or
Pennsylvania, or Wyoming, with a few houses, and a few
businesses: gas station, tavern, grocery store. And I would ask
myself, "what do these people do? why do they live out here?
what a life!".
	There was nothing there. They didn't live like me, I
felt alien to them, and I felt a little sorry for them.
	I left home, and fate took me into small college towns,
in places like Wisconsin and North Dakota.  Many years passed.
	I took trips and passed through places like Chicago, Los
Angeles, and New York. The streets were lined with huge crowds
of people, and the sun was blocked by urban stench and
billboards. And I would ask myself, "what do all these people
do? why do they live here?  what a life!".
	Other people's lives seem strange sometimes. It's the
same for everyone, I think.


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Canada stats and gun laws and everything
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Followups-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.d
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:01:42 GMT

Silver Tiger (anon-1357@twwells.com) wrote:

: It is nice to hear of an American who actually likes Canada, and doesn't
: just think of us as the wimps who drink beer and eat backbacon (BTW,
: I didn't even know what backbacon *looked* like until two years ago, and
: beer makes me ill, so I guess I'll just have to eat a lot of maple
: sugar or something to live up to being Canadian..:):):)

The few Canadians I've met have all been very nice people.

: As far as guns go, my father owns three, all registered and proper.. and
: he is only a hunter.  Handguns are illegal, and I quite like that... if
: I want to protect my home, I can use a rifle.  If nobody else has a handgun
: on the street, who do I need to protect myself against?  Just carry mace.
: There are very few muggings at gunpoint in my city, and I *like* it that way.

Actually, the best weapon for home defense is a shotgun, not a rifle.
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.  --Adolf Hitler
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Ritual Abuse Upper (really!)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:46:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Nancy Lebovitz writes
>This is pretty hypothetical, but I wonder if it's plausible that ritual
>abuse does occur, but the reason all those corpses can't be found is
>that children are hypnotised (as part of a ritual that may also include
>literal physical abuse) into believing that that murders occur. This
>would be convenient for the abusers in that it would produce terror,
>not leave physical evidence that could incriminate the abusers, and
>tend to discredit anyone who came forward about having been abused
>but couldn't supply physical evidence. (I count such use of hypnosis
>as a quite serious sort of abuse in itself.) 

It think that's a strong possibility, Nancy.  However, I do believe that
SOME ritual abuse murders have occurred.  People disappear every
year and are never heard from again.

Steve, thanks for your posting on this to soc.women.  I've supported you 
(even in sci.skeptic, though I expect that posting to bounce---isn't
sci.skeptic moderated?).

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Religion and a Denial System
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:20:16 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to anon.95@pax.tpa.com.au:
>The vast majority of people I'm seeing in church or other Christian
>fellowship are either in denial, or are not in denial but go into a
>denial mode when they're in church.

Maybe not the majority in my experience, but maybe so.  For most of my
life I had no concept of what being in denial means.  It certainly
seems likely that people in denial would grasp firmly an ideal world
of the future so as not to have to think about their pasts.

>Jesus didn't come for the healthy, He came to heal the sick and set the
>captive free.  [...]  Without being codependent, we need to be willing
>to reach out to others, and that includes fostering an attitude that it's
>ok to need help (excuse the theological ramblings).

Right on all counts, by my lights.

>d) Am I making myself sicker by going to church meetings and pretending
>everything is all right and making small talk and all when everything is
>not all right?  Why isn't there anyone I feel I can share with?

To my mind, private does not equal secret.  Your past is not a secret,
but it is private; you're just choosing who you want to be intimate
with.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It's very healthy, really.

On the other hand, if particular people make you feel trapped, then
they in particular might be worth avoiding except under circumstances
that feel safe.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
From: anon-1498@twwells.com (Sierra)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: stopping cutting
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:59:13 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes


Hi all -

I've been reading the recent discussions of cutting with quite a lot of 
interest (yes, it has a lot of personal application :-().  One thing
I've found very useful is to make myself wristbands.  I get in moods
where the only thing I can do is stare at the veins in my wrists and
think how easy it would be....  My lover cut up a pair of old socks and
made me wristbands out of the tops of them.  Now I usually have the
sense to put them on when I start feeling that way, instead of actually
slicing.  It makes me feel much safer to have the material against my
wrists; I think of it as a nurturing thing, that I love my wrists (and
so does she - it helps that the wristbands are a gift from her).

Lately I haven't been cutting at all, or burning (I keep reminding
myself that I do have that option, and I have a lighter or two hanging
out in my room in easy reach, but I haven't been using them).  I have
been hitting myself a lot; my arms and legs are all bruised.  Something
I use to stop that is that I have a lot of trouble hurting myself in
visible ways when friends are with me, because I know it makes them feel
bad.  A lot of times in the past week I've wanted to hurt myself but a
friend was with me and I couldn't do it.

These are just some suggestions; I hope they help.

Take care, all of you.

Sierra

Poohbear - I'm GLAD you're back!



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: "Satanic Ritual Abuse" in the media
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:42:01 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

So the estimates of how many people die by ritual murder may be overly
high.  Isn't it possible to believe that the ritual abuse happens in
other settings besides ritual murder?
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
From: sbecker@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Enough on Satanic Abuse!
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:06:32 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Okay.  Enough nit-picking about whether 50, 000 or 2,000,000 kids/adults are
murdered in ritual abuse each year.  Why quibble over statistics?  Even a few
hundred is a staggering nu,mber, isn't it?  And this sort of debate might be
more production on ASAR.D, as Cloister Bell has pointed out.

Sarah
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'Krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Some Pleasent Thoughts to Share with Everyone!
Date: 6 Jan 93 05:59:23 CST
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

Warning:  There are many extremely pleasnt thoughts (IMHO) to follow in this
message.  Do not read this message if you are in a bad mood, for it may destroy
a completely rotten mood.  You have been warned.  Niceities to follow!

I ended up writing a few letters at work today, and I wish to share a segment
from one of them with everyone here...  Maybe someone else will see the beauty
in it all and the day will seem just a little brighter, and the air a little
fresher, to someone else as well.

<><><><><><>

It's now a bit later.  I stopped writing, but didn't right this letter because
I knew there was more that I wanted to say... Now I know.

Since I got here [at work], I've has a feeling like the feeling you get after a
long cry.  Releif.  A glimmer of happyness.  Satisfaction.  Contentment. 
Peace.  That there are plenty of more tears ready to come out of the well, but
there is no reason for them to do so, so they sit unused, unneeded at this
time, ready for the future.

And you have reminded me what it is like to feel loved.  Even as a very close
friend.  I had forgotten, although I knew what it was I was yearning for.

The little things of life are making themselves known.  Even this boom box that
I'm listening to is a bit quirky and not-quite working right  --  It still
brings a smile to my face.  For I am enjoying memories.  Not always full
memories, but also memories of joy, happyness, etc.  Without the memories of
the event that put me in that state...

I remember hating to pack a lunch.  Throughout school, I always brought my
meal, even if I paid out of my pocket and could have packed a lunch free. 
Today I brought a lunch to work to throw in the microwave.  (Chicken and
stuffing)  I forgot that there isn't a microwave at this site!  Regardless I
pulled it out and ate it.  It was the most satisfying food I could have had.  I
was in heaven for a little while.  And this was chicken and instant stuffing
that had been sitting around for a few days.  If it had been Real Food (TM)
that I enjoyed, or better yet some of your hot soup, I probably would have had
the equivelent to a non-sexual orgasm!  (If that makes sence.)  :)

Yes, I am happy just to be alive.  A very unusual feeling for me.  Thank you
for reminding me of what it's like!

<><><><>
Krikket (a.k.a. Doug Krick)  ---  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us
#include<std.disclaimers>    ---  an294@anon.penet.fi
anon-1214@twwells.com        ---  anon.77@pax.tpa.com.au

 "And the Germans killed the Jews.  And the Jews killed the Arabs.
  And the Arabs killed the hostages.  And that is the news."
From: anon.79@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Stuffed Toys are Grrrreat!
Date: 13 Jan 93 05:39:34 GMT
Reply-To: anon.79@pax.tpa.com.au
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


I, oddly enough, don't have a stuffed tiger (or bear, more's the
pity).  My tiger has always seemed too ferocious to be that
cuddly..but then things are always changing.

I have a purple dragon (Dudley), an ALF doll, an Opus doll, and
a stuffed owl (Petri).  I don't hug them much anymore, I think maybe
I need to again.  

Here's to all the new people on asar finding their healing,
and to all the people finding their guardians too.. our safe
forest is richer for your presence.

Silver Tiger


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From: dtb@otto (David Bath)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Wanted: UK Contact Group
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:03:51 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au
Summary: Address for UK/English self help group
Keywords: SelfHelpGroup England UK

Hi Folks,
I am Australian, but friend in England (male) just told me
about S.A. as child.

Thought you guys (that includes females) would know about
an address in England he can contact for help.

No , not email - he has no access to computers.

Phone numbers, people, anything please.

Oh yes, do please reply via email.

P.S. : I posted months ago about my (exish) wife - received
no email replies.  What gives?  My questions in other newsgroups
get replies pretty quick.


David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
-- 
David T. Bath	Email:dtb@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au	Phone:03-3477511
Global Technology Corporation, 179 Grattan St, CARLTON, VIC, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"Failure to emulate is the best revenge" - Marcus Aurelius
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: Religion and a Support System
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:01:55 GMT

In article <1i8fd1INNb2m@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> anon.95@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>

[...]

>On the OTHER hand, in the church groups I've been in in this city, everything
>is surface; even during prayer requests, the requests are always for someone
>else; there seems to be some unwritten rule that says we all have to
>appear invulnerable.
>
>I'm not invulnerable, and for that matter God nowhere says that I am, and in
>fact I know (at least occasionally) that He loves me and understands the
>hurt I've been through. For that matter, no one is invulnerable. Why do
>my "brothers and sisters" pretend otherwise, or if they do know, why aren't
>others willing to admit their vulnerablities, even privately once in a while?

I don't share your religion, but you have my sympathy. You may need to go
outside the institutionalized church--there may be people who you just meet
at random who are in your situation. If you want to be more active, you
might try contacting people who've drifted away from your Church groups--
they may have left for the same reasons that you're dissatisfied. Would it
be possible for you to start the kind of group you want to be in?

>I'd love to find a Christian ACOA group, but they are very rare, and usually
>short term in nature (10 weeks or whatever). I attend a large university, but
>among all the ministries here on campus not one reaches out to hurting
>people specifically. Oh yes, there's also seem to be this rule that you can
>have a problem, as long as it's resolvable neat and tidy in a short period
>of time, whereupon you can give glory to God; I guess its assumed that
>God doesn't create problems that take longer than three weeks or so to solve
>8-). Perhaps some people have been watching too many Movies-of-the-Week 8) 8).
>
>For those of you who do not share my faith, please forgive the content. I do
>hope there is someone out there who can relate to me on this.

No problem. I wish you the best of luck.

Nancy Lebovitz
From: anon-1421@twwells.com (Seeker)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: going through the pain
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:20:08 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I have been fighting a feeling that is threatening to 
overwhelm me. I struggle so hard against my intense
feelings. I drown them in caffeine highs, eating
too little, eating too much, sleeping too little,
sleeping too much, working too much (etc.). 
Worried I may be getting clinically depressed. 

I feel grief, but when I image it the feeling is rage.
I have mostly forgiven the Perps but I still have
murderous rage. I, like Phoenix, am side-stepping the
pain. Instead of feeling it and going through it, I
end up suspended over the fire with smoke coming from
the sole's of my feet.

I am considering asking for anti-depressants.

It turns out that my SO is into BDSM (bondage-discipline, 
dominance-submission, sado-masochism, I think). He says
he isn't really interested in BDSM for itself but likes
the other people involved. However, whenever we get physical
lately, he causes me pain. I ask him to stop and he just 
does it again. We have talked about it. I will talk to him
about it again and then I will have to end the relationship.

He has suggested that I re-define what is painful to me
but that is not something I am willing to do. 
If I cannot define what is painful, then I cannot control
my own body. Allowing someone else to say what does and does not
cause me pain sounds like mind-fucking (actually, my
counselor had to point it out to me).

I am sad about it because there are many things about
my SO that I like but I cannot ignore a warning flag as
blatantly obvious as this one. 

-Sad Seeker



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: jdiamond@netcom.com (Joan M. Diamond)
Subject: Songs with meaning for me
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:36:58 GMT

I just want to share a song or two that touch me.

Seeds  by Pat Alger and Ralph Murphy

Sometimes I stop on my way home
and watch the children play
and I wonder if they wonder
what they'll be some day
Some will dream a big dream
and make it all come true
while others go on dreaming
of things they'll never do

We're all just seeds
in God's hands
We start the same
but where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
and sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
in God's hands

I saw a friend the other day
I hardly recognized
He'd done a lot of living
since I'd last looked in his eyes
He told his tale of how he'd failed
The lessons he'd been taught
But he offered no excuses
and he left me with this thought

We're all just seeds
in God's hands
We start the same
but where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
and sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
in God's hands

And as I'm standing at a crossroads
once again
I'm reminded we're all the same when
we begin
and in the end

We're all just seeds
in God's hands
We start the same
but where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
and sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
in God's hands

Joan
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1559@twwells.com (Drusilla)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Letting it be known
Date: 12 Jan 93 23:46:00 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


Hi to everyone on asar.  I am Drusilla.  I'm a survivor of incest.

This is really hard.  I didn't think it would be that hard to say,
but is was.

I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks.  I've been really
moved and comforted by the posts I've read.  It seems like some
of us have alot in common.  I'm really glad that you all are here.
I have recently remembered alot of painful things from my past
that I need to talk about, but I hate therapists and I find I can't
talk to somone who hasn't been through it because they just don't
know what it feels like to have been hurt this way.

I have so much to say but it's kinda scary (the whole posting thing
is really new to me).

I have alot of questions too.

Drusilla

P.S.  I wish I could hug you all and take away your pain.  Especially
you, poohbear, your posts make me cry.  I hope you will feel better.



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