From: djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:55:56 GMT

In article <qdfm03@lynx.unm.edu> kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:
>In article <BrrGCL.FI7@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.193757.8909@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>>>In article <Brr235.D8s@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Jul21.160012.29170@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>>>
>>>Are you sure that having a good time creates a better atmosphere? How do 
>>>Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell and Rob Ducey feel about Winfield? Could they 
>>>blame him for lack of playing time? I don't know, but it's a worthwhile
>>>consideration.
>>
>>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>>considered team players as well.  
>>
>OK, Dave, at your company, instead of having you make 30 widgets a day, we're
>going to pay some guy who makes 40 widgets a day three times as much as you.
>I certainly hope you're going to be a team employee about this.  Especially next
>year when we cut your salary by 10% because you didn't make any widgets last 
>year.  What, you say?  You could have made some widgets last year if we gave you
>a chance?  You ungrateful lout.  You're just not a team employee.  

Are you trying to imply that any of these players could put up the numbers
that Winfield has this year.  Rance Mulliniks, possibly average but not a 
chance for 15 HRs in 4 years let alone half a season.  Rob Ducey has no 
chance of matching any of these numbers.  Derek Bell is a good player and
could possibly put up these types of numbers eventually but he is still a
rookie.  I don't think that he could do it this year.  Thus in response to
your above question if he was a better worker than me then he deserves to
get paid more than me.  You did say that he could amke 40 comared to my 30
so I get the idea that he is a better worker.

>>>Hm. "Obviously good for the team"?? How is it "obviously good for the team" when
>>>it meant that Syl Campusano had to play the OF and Cecil Fielder got no PAs? Let's
>>
>>It is obvious that the team didn't think much of Cecil at that time as they
>>let him leave for Japan.
>>
>Er, huh?  Fielder ASKED to go to Japan, because he was playing behind Bell and
>Freddie McGriff, and therefore couldn't play full time.

True but do you think that the Jays would have given up on him if they ever
thought that he could put up the numbers he is now.  No.  They didn't think 
that he was that good so they gave up on him.  As well, 24 other teams
didn't think that he was that good since they all thought Detroit was
stupid for signing him to a $1 million contract when he returned from Detroit.
He would have gotten more than $1 million if anyone thought that he was going
to be that good.

>>Even if the Bell to DH move would be a bad one Bell should have respected the
>>manager and either agreed to play there part time or privately ask for a 
>>trade like some players.  If he had of been a little quieter about him not
>>wanting to DH but still privately discuss the issue with management then
>>the fans would have never booed him and he may still be in Toronto (Awful
>>Thought).
>>
>>     b)If the management doesn't respect you and doesn't think you
>>       are doing a good job, why should he have to respect the management.
>
>You referred to Winfield here, defending his New York surliness label, but 
>apply it with your other quote about Bell, above.  Whoa. Contradiction city.
>
>Question:  If the management doesn't respect Bell and doesn't think he was doing
>a good job, why should George have to respect Jimy Williams?

Did I say that the Jays management didn't respect Bell.  They never publically
criticized him ar ever spoke bad about him.  They thought he was a great 
player but his defense was deteriorating and they wanted him to DH.  If Bell
would DH without complaining he would still be here and Winfield wouldn't.

--David Johnson

>-- 
>*  Kurt Bose (as in * I am NOT the Antichrist, no matter what my future mother
>*  Daisy, not Rose) * in law may think. Nor do I pretend to speak for UNM. Tried
>*kbos@carina.unm.edu* it one time, but they caught me at it. I think they were a
>*  Junior Stathead  * tad miffed at me, sure, but the Dean's hair DID grow back.