HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Date: 8 Nov 1992 06:38:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, brownp@cs.unc.edu (Peter Brown) says:

>They also had the problem that it was difficult to get the forces from
>the two cylinders properly balanced (boiler pressure varies, and
>anyway the two pistons can't be the same size), resulting in
>maintenance headaches (at least in American practice).  This may have
>been a reason why the compound Garratts Mark mentions didn't use
>cross-compounding.

   I know Garretts were used in Australia and Africa (still?), but I can't think
of a North American railway which used them.  Is there any particular reason 
why it didn't catch on in the USA?  


>Something Mark doesn't mention about the Vauclain is that the high-
>and low-pressure cylinders also shared a common valve chest
>(presumably rather more complex than a standard valve chest);
>generally this was a piston valve (as opposed to the slide valve
>standard in American practice in the 1890's), mounted inboard of the
>high-pressure cylinder and actuated by inside valve gear.  You can see
>the front of it pretty clearly in photos of the early Vauclain
>compounds.

   This may be what you're talking about anyway, but some Santa Fe Atlantics
were built as four cylinder compounds with the high pressure cylinders mounted
beneath the smokebox between the low pressure ones, but with each high pressure
cylinder sharing a common valve chest with the neighboring low pressure 
cylinder.  The low pressure cylinders angled in at 45 degrees and the high 
pressure ones angled out, meeting at two common sets of valves beneath the 
running boards.  _Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail_ by Ed Worley goes into 
some detail on these beasts (though I'm typing this from memory too).  His 
comment on them was essentially, "Handsom is as handsom does, and these 
Atlantics were about the ugliest locomotives ever put across the rails."
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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: clark@angelo.amd.com (Brad D. Clark)
Subject: Re: Pictures posted to a.b.p.m
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:46:36 GMT

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU............

I think you get my drift, eh?

Large :-)

Brad
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Incan Car Ferry discontinued
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:44:51 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.


Mpls Strib 11/10/92
A Steady visitor will soon bid the Twin Ports farewell

By Larry Oakes
Northern Minnesota Correspondent

Duluth, Minn.

For 19 years a sleek and powerful rail-car ferryboat called the Incan Superior

has been the most frequent lake freighter to call on the port of
Duluth-Superior.

With an ability to cover the 194 miles on Lake Superior between the
Twin Ports and Thunder Bay, Ontario, in 13 hours, it has also been the
fastest, and according to one expert,

its lines have made it the most admired. But after its last voyage ends
Nov. 19, it'll be Great Lakes history the victim of a paper industry 
recession, subsidized Canadian rail rates and rising U.S. harbor taxes, 
according to port officials.

The vessel's owner, Incan Superior Ltd. of Thunder Bay, announced the
move Monday. "Our newsprint and wood-pulp traffic has fallen 
45 percent from a year ago," said Bill Scott, general manager and 
chief officer of the company, a subsidiary of Canadian Pacific Ltd.
"There is no prospect of the kind of turn-around we need to
ensure the future viability of the operation."

The move means 26 jobs in Thunder Bay will be lost, a Duluth shipping
agency will lose its most steady customer and four Burlington Northern
employees on a dock in Superior could be affected.

Heading for more profitable waters off British Columbia, the 388-foot
Incan will pass from an era in which the boat and its 13-member crews
hauled an estimated 5.7 million tons of total cargo Q newsprint, forest
products, some grain. Each trip, the boat hauled 26 rail cars on five tracks
anchored to the 56-foot-wide deck.

"There's hardly any other vessel on the lakes that's as recognizable and
distinctive," said Pat Labadie, director of the U.S. Army Corps of 
Engineers' Marine Museum at Canal Park in Duluth. "Unlike many of the 
float shoe boxes you see today, she's a real ship - one of a kind.
  

Posters
Note:  Had a great argument with Ingles and others while on a private railcar
trip over wheither if a trip was run using the Incan Superior, could the
mileage in the boat be collected.


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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Railroad Computer program...
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:51:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.111255.8177@walter.cray.com> rl@ferris.cray.com (Randy Lambertus) writes:
>  I was looking back through some old magazines and
>I saw this in the September 1984, Model Railroader
>page 131, lower right corner.
>
>Does anyone have any knowledge of it, or if the company
>is in existence. If anyone does have an Apple][ copy, I
>would be interested in it. If no one answers, I will
>give the telephone number a call, but if someone in
>the U.S (maybe Pittsburg?) wants to try first I
>would appreciate it. It looks to good to be true but
>then again, it could be just the thing to learn how
>to dispatch? It's probably long gone..............
>
>*************************************************
> "Be the Train Dispatcher"
>
>  Play this fast-paced computer video game that's so
>true-to-life that a major railroad indicated they use
>it in dispatcher training.
>
 .
 .
 .
>
>SEND TO: Signal Computer Consultants, LTD.
>         P.O Box 18222
>         Pittsburg, PA   15236
>         (412) 655-7727
>*************************************************

 I think I saw an add for something like this in a more recient
magazine, but the mag was a few years old. If the game is in existance
for the Mac I would be rather interested myself.

 By the way, there are a couple of shareware-hypercard trainsets
floating around out there. Kinda cute toys. 



    r++-----------,---,-------------.            Benn Coifman 
   /~____________/ ""||      @      |       zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  / o-o  (*) (*)  o :  o-o-o   o-o-o      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rl@ferris.cray.com (Randy Lambertus)
Subject: British Rail Chairman Warns on Sell-off Plans
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:27:55 CST

 UK news....
******************************************************
BR CHAIRMAN WARNS ON SELL-OFF PLANS
    by Richard Tompkins, Transport Consultant
         copyright FINANCIAL TIMES, Thursday November 5, 1992

  Sir Bob Reid, chairman of British Rail, warned 
yesterday that "major questions" over the proposed 
privatization of the railways were in danger of 
disrupting the government's plans.

  The timetable for privatization was very tight, he 
said, and serious obstacles remained to be overcome. 
"Until I am absolutely satisfied that we have got a 
workable proposition, we don't go," he told MPs.

  The government is planning to introduce the 
privatization legislation by the end of this month. It 
hopes to have the framework in place by April 1994 if 
Royal Assent follows next summer.

  Sir Bob told the Commons transport committee that 
the government had yet to publish it's plans for the 
single most important element of privatization - the 
system of charging train operators for the use of the 
railway tracks.

  He also voiced his concern over the lack of any 
clear-cut plans for investment in new rolling stock 
immediately after privatization, since private-sector 
operators would be unlikely to risk investing in 
trains until they had built up experience. He also 
warned against excessive bureaucracy.
******************************************************

Randy Lambertus               Cray Research, Region 4            rl@uk.cray.com
*******************************************************************************
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From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com (James B. VanBokkelen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New Montreal commuter train routes?
Keywords: GO coaches
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:17:01 GMT
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Distribution: na
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <23OCT92.14129502.0063@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:

    What happened to GO Transit's single-level coaches?

I rode them often when they were in Boston, under lease to the MBTA.
They didn't impress Boston commuters, and I don't think they'll
impress anyone else.  Flimsy construction, noisy, major drafts from
the doors, hard seats.  Maybe for a 15-minute ride, but not more.

James B. VanBokkelen		2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Mallet / Compound (Was: Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:25:38 GMT


COMPOUNDED ERROR

Someone whose name I deleted kindly pointed out my
mistake in the previous post.  The lopsided engines
were not Vulcain compounds.  That distinction 
belongs to a series of over/under four-cylinder 
compounds.  Quite a different thing.  So I have egg
on my face again (it's hard to pontificate from
memory when you're at work and have no references
handy).

Anyway, my correspondent said the problem with such engines
was excessive wear.  I'm a bit hazy about the engineering
and operation of such locomotives, but some ideas present
themselves for further discussion by the net.  One would
assume that the design would allow a low pressure cylinder
that would be sized to take all of the available steam
(allowing for some leakage) from the high pressure cylinder.
If the cylinder was too small, would this cause back 
pressure to retard the operation of the high pressure
cylinder.  And conversely, if too large would it be a drag
on the high pressure cylinder?  Second possibility: would
the physics be different at high speeds versus low?  For 
example, would the spent steam be hotter at high speed, or
more saturated?  If these conditions pertained, either 
could cause the high and low pressure cylinders to be out
of balance and cause more wear.  And what about water 
accumulation in the low pressure cylinder as the steam 
cooled?  These problems, if indeed they existed, might
have been solved by having separate valve adjustments to
each pair of cylinders.  This would take great skill to
keep in synch.  Does anyone know if compounds were built
this way?  

All this adds up to some real maintenance headaches, which
of course are expensive.  At some point the operating 
departments must have decided that the increased efficiency
from compounding was not worth the extra cost of maintenance
and had the engines rebuilt to simple.  Of course, devices
like superheaters and other efficiency features eventually
probably offset the benefits of compounding without some
of the problems.

I would suspect that articulated compounds would not have
many of the wear problems of a non-articulated compound.
Here you have essentially two engines under one boiler, 
but it must have taken greater skill to run a mallet 
efficiently than a conventional engine.  Since there are
still a few mallets working on fan trip service, it might
be interesting to compare their operating quirks.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: ingraham@railnet.nshore.ORG (Dick Ingraham)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railroad Computer program...
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 22:20:12 EST
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

clark@angelo.amd.com (Brad D. Clark) writes:

> rl@ferris.cray.com (Randy Lambertus) writes:
> 
> 
> >  I was looking back through some old magazines and
> >I saw this in the September 1984, Model Railroader
> >page 131, lower right corner.
> 
> >Does anyone have any knowledge of it, or if the company
> >is in existence. If anyone does have an Apple][ copy, I
> >would be interested in it. If no one answers, I will
> >give the telephone number a call, but if someone in
> >the U.S (maybe Pittsburg?) wants to try first I
> >would appreciate it. It looks to good to be true but
> >then again, it could be just the thing to learn how
> >to dispatch? It's probably long gone..............
> 
> (Ad for package deleted...)
> 
> >         (412) 655-7727
> 
> I called this morning, and, yep, they're looooong gone.
> Bummer... I actually have an Atari 800 laying around, and that would have
> made a great excuse to dust it off  :-(
> 
> Brad
> 

I have a copy of Train Dispatcher for the C-64 which is interesting for a 
short period of time.  It's not the greatest game but it is railroading.

Regards,

Dick Ingraham

--
ingraham@railnet.nshore.ORG (Dick Ingraham)
Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Sound file posted
Date: 7 Nov 1992 04:23:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) says:

>  I've posted a .SND file to alt.binaries.sounds.misc of an ATSF GP60M 
>whistle.  

  I only got one response to this posting, so I'm wondering whether anyone
is interested in more sound files.  I have a few more .SND and .VOC files of 
mostly Class-1 railroad diesel whistles I'd be happy to post.  Please e-mail 
me if you're interested.

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From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: _Discover_ Magazine: "Personal Rail Transit"
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:18:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: Bugs-R-Us


In article <1992Nov6.201018.3976@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I.  Petrich)
writes:

#  The inventor of this system [...] expects the cars to be _very_ light,
#  and not to need much strength in the tracks. 

Lighter than, say, a small car? Even the elevated track necessary to
convey vehicles of that size and weight would be expensive. 

#  But not if the system is very spread out, with several possible routes. 
#  Part of the design is that the central computer can recognize congested
#  spots and redirect cars around them. 

I would expect the congested spots to be those at the centre of the
network, and the problems of by-passing them would be the same as the
problems of by-passing a main road in a city centre. 


#  The elevated track is so that a driverless system can work at the
#  present level of AI -- no heavy-duty visual recognition needed. 

The present level of AI can cope with ground level trackwork; there is
no difference between ground level and elevated trackage from the
computational point of view.  Conventional trains could share the ground
level trackwork provided it was strong enough and information about its
position was fed to the signalling system. 

Ken Johnson



-- 
                                  //// Ken Johnson, A I Applications Institute
Don't get off while it's moving. ////       80 South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN
                                ////                  E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk
                               ////       Phone 031-650 2756  Fax 031-650 6513
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:30:25 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Nov6.164726.16489@ulysses.att.com>,
by smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin):
> Has anyone ever tried building a locomotive that tried to recondense
> water from the steam?

Yes.  This was a particularly good idea in arid regions like South Africa,
where such locos came into common use.

The problem is that the surface area of the heat exchanger needed for
the condenser is huge!  You end up having to build a huge tender with sides
made of lattices of condenser tubes.

Condensing steam automobiles have the same problem.  You end up with
radiator grills - style condensors occupying every spare nook under the
body skin, and then you route more condensor tubes along the inside of the
body skin everywhere you can, so you can use that surface area too.

In steap-powered watercraft, things are far simpler!  There, you can use
a water cooled condensor.

Note that most stationary steam power today uses evaporative cooling, with
cold water to cool the condensors, and evaporative cooling towers to keep
the water cold.  If the cooling towers use fans, they have a volume
comparable to that of the boiler.  If the cooling towers use natural
convection, they're huge.
				Doug Jones
				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johna@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (john.a.welsh)
Subject: Re: Misspelling of "Amtrak" (was Re: Metroliners)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:10:54 GMT
Summary: Origin of Amtrak

In article <lfipggINNahd@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> Seriously....
  
> how did the National Rail Passenger Corporation ever
> get the name "Amtrak" anyway?


Ron,
This is the story that I have heard, and as far as I know it is true:

The original name was a much more appropriate NARPAC, but it was
taken already, and Amtrak was their next choice.

                         John Welsh
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: ICC gives WC preliminary approval to buy GB&W
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Joe.Russ@mixcom.mixcom.com (Joe.Russ) writes:
>
>It's sad, but true, but according to the 11/10/92 Milwaukee Journal,
>the ICC has given preliminary approval to the Wisconsin Central to buy
>the GB&W and FRVR. However, the ICC also voted to exted job protection
>to the employees of the two lines. The final formal opinion, which
>will be given by Dec. 10, is expected to be the same as this one.
> 
>So, since WC's president, Ed Burkhardt, can't lay off workers, I
>wonder what will happen to the union? 
> 
>Looks like the ICC doesn't mind monoplies, either.
>   Joe R.
>-- 
>Joe.Russ@mixcom.com
>WISE Div., NMRA

Sad? I think it's Great! 

As far as monopolies go, the WC is far from one. anything hauled on 
the WC ( or FRVR or GBW for that matter ) could be hauled on trucks
for about the same cost to the customer. 

Back to the employees, ex ITEL workers can't be laid off, but current WC
workers can be laid off. I find this to be quite unfair, but that's the way
it goes....

-- Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
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From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Mallet / Compound
Date: 7 Nov 1992 16:04:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) says:

>N&W was the only railroad to really make compounds work over the long haul,
>and in their case, it was the discovery that adding a little high pressure,
>and more importantly, high temperature steam to the low pressure steam
>improved performance a LOT.

  Didn't D&RGW run Mallet compounds fairly late?  I seem to remember seeing
pictures of them in helper service on Tennessee Pass in the late fifties.

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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: Re: flashing signals
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 06:19:59 GMT

In article <10095@kralizec.zeta.org.au> craig@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Craig Dewick) writes:
>There is no such thing as a flashing mainline signal indication. The
>only flashing signal indication is a small yellow 'shunt ahead' found on starting signals.
>-- 

NONSENSE! You don't know what you're talking about, or at least you're
several years out of date. 

NSW has had flashing MAINLINE signal indications for several years. They are
more recent than the flashing yellow bands (and certainly more recent than
the flashing shunt-ahead or subshunts) but are not things that arrived
yesterday or the day before.

They are used in a variety of locations in single-light-indication areas
to mean the equivalent of green over yellow in the double light system.

They are in fact being progressively retrofitted to various locations
as well as being included in new installations. For instance the Zig-Zag
area has recently received a few of them on an old installation, while the
Maitland installation (now a couple of years old at least) is full of them.

Eddie Oliver
From: lenehanj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: New GMs for Iarnrod Eireann.
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:16:17 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Current news here in Ireland is that Iarnrod Eireann/Irish Rail has
ordered 10 locos from GM. It is said that they are going to be the same
external design as the current GMs (class 071) but with 3000hp rather
than 2500hp.

The feeling is that it was a good idea considering the reliability of
current GM locos the oldest of which is now hitting 30 yrs (class 121).

Des O'Donoghue c/o lenehanj@ul.ie  University of Limerick, Ireland.

"and the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their
fathers' magic carpets made of steel..."