From: PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: For gun control? No not really.
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:49:43 GMT

In article <MERRITT.92Dec22092527@macro.bu.edu> merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt) writes:

>In-reply-to: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU's message of 18 Dec 92 20:33:00 GMT
>In article <1992Dec18.203300.29575@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
>
>   In article <105170@bu.edu> merritt@macro.bu.edu (Sean Merritt) writes:
>   >If we do not limit availabilty than I must assume it
>   >remains as easy for any person as it was for Wayne
>   >to get his gun. Being only 18 he would have had more
>   >trouble getting a six pack.
>
>&   Not close.  Then again, I note that coke is rather easy to get despite
>&   the legal restrictions, so ....
>
>So what? When was the last time someone use "coke" as a high speed
>projectile to kill someone? What's your point?

       Cocaine availability, by law, is extremely restricted.  There is 
almost nowhere (I don't know if there are, perhaps, some medical exceptions) 
in the U.S. you can purchase cocaine legally.  However, those who want it 
have easy access to it, for the right price.  There appears to be no 
shortage of the stuff.  As for being 18 and getting a six pack, don't fool 
yourself.  Any kid of any age who *wants* to get a six pack is going to be 
able to get one with very little hassle.  If they can't buy it themselves, 
they'll get an older friend to because (and this is important) people don't 
think giving alcohol to minors is wrong.  People tend not to take laws they 
think are stupid very seriously.

>&   Merritt apparently believes that disarming him can provide benefits.
>&   He's wrong.  (Disarming him at best is a no-op and won't disarm anyone
>&   who is worth disarming.)  He thinks we should be shocked by the
>&   possibility that he might have several guns.  If he's like the rest of
>&   us, there's no risk.  Should we jail him so that we won't be
>&   "shocked"?
>
>I believe that the proability of being shot is too high. There must
>be an environmental change;

       Even with our "incredibly violent culture" you're chances of being 
shot are pretty low.

>1) restrict gun availability

       Restricting gun availability will *only* reduce your chances of being 
shot if those most likely to shoot you have their gun availability 
restricted.  Given the success of limiting the availability of other sorts 
of contraband in modern times (and throughout history) the odds that this 
will happen don't seem to be very good.  New York and Washington D.C. appear 
to bear this out.  Unless you are willing to conquer the entire world and 
watch everybody twenty four hours a day to prevent them making guns, then 
smugglers are going to fill a market niche, just like they do with cocaine.

>2) restrict ammunition availabilty

        Same problems.

>3) allow people to create communities where the *can* control
>   guns and their use.

        I'm not sure how you can simply decide to create such a community, 
unless you're prepared to put up walls and search everybody going in and 
out.  Even then you'd have problems.  The sort of people who use guns 
criminally aren't the sort who would take more laws all that seriously.

>I don't intend to shock anyone. If the creation of autonomous
>Anarcho-Capitalist zones shocks you, sorry. Jail me? Because
>I'm niether a Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal?
>I am a Anarcho-Capitalist that believes Social Engineering is
>possible. 

        Big sticks don't ever change people's minds.  At best it alters 
their behavior while you're looking and exacerbates the problem when you're 
not.

>Or is my crime that I find the present proabilities
>of being murdered with a gun unacceptably high. 

        There is no problem here, except that you appear to be artificially 
limiting your options.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal               University of Tennessee Div. of Cont. Education
                         Information Services Group
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  (Mail to VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu will bounce.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns