HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:29:10 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Amy Grant

Carol Slingo posted a review of an Amy Grant album from a Bombay
periodical.  It seems to me that some of the responses overlooked
the fact that the periodical was identified as SCREEN, a
film-music-TV paper. We accordingly expect the reviewer to discuss
the album purely from a musical point of view.

When the reviewer says that "Amy has popularised gospel," and refers
again to "her kind of gospel," he almost certainly is referring, not
to the Good News of salvation in Jesus Christ, but to a certain
style of music, known as gospel music. "He's Got the Whole World in
His Hands" is, in the relevant sense, gospel music, while Handel's
"Messiah" and Bach's "Passion according to Saint Matthew" are not.
As far as I can see, everything said in the review is a comment on
the album as music, not on the message.

Some persons will perhaps argue that if listeners can enjoy the
music of a song without paying attention to the words, then it
cannot be considered a Christian song. I disagree. I know too many
non-Christians who love the "Messiah." If this argument is accepted,
we shall have to conclude that a song can be considered Christian
only if it is musically so bad that only those who believe the
message of the words will consent to listen to it.  And I for one am
not willing to say that Handel's music does not qualify as Christian
music because it is not bad enough.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:34:20 +0000
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 1/12

MAN: "There is no one without sin.  None!" (Romans 3:10).

GOD: "Only God is good" (Matthew 19:17).

"Christ had no sin.  But God made him become sin.  God did this for us so that
in Christ we could become right with God" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used
by permission.
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 12:17:17 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A Hindu View of Amy Grant

> Date: 07 Jan 1993 10:26:07 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Scott D. Weberg" <sweberg@GARFIELD.WES.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject: Re: A Hindu View of Amy Grant
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
>
> Thanks for posting this interesting review.  It seems that Amy's
> "kind of gospel" is so watered down that even false religions can now
> accept it!

Since I didn't see any smileys, I'll have to respectfully say that this
is a fairly ignorant statement.  Is it not possible that a member of
one religion recognize, respect, and even *agree with*, certain
elements of another?  For example, a Muslim would not take offense from
a song about the Beatitudes, as Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet,
and thus his words are considered a source of wisdom.

It also belies the assumption that, like so many Christians, believers
in other religions will react intolerantly when presented a system of
beliefs contrary to their own.  I don't mean that they will *agree*
with them, but that they will respect them *despite* their differences,
rather than dismiss everything they do as worthless because of their
beliefs.

This assertion amounts to saying that no Hindu could possibly attribute
merit impartially to anything related to the Christian religion.
Needless to say, I disagree.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:55:04 GMT
From:         "Ian (Travolta) Wylie C2/Q2" <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Unanswered prayer.

I want to point out a misinterpretation of romans 8:26, no flame intended.

Paul says that we do not know what to pray for, so the Spirit intercedes for
us.

The Scriptures also show us how this is acheived, by praying in the Spirit,
that is, praying in tongues.  Paul himself said he prays more in the Spirit,
(in tongues), than anyone else. Therefore we can deduce that God intends us
to pray mostly in the Spirit ,(in tongues), after we receive the baptism in
the Spirit.

Then we would see revival in the west, like our brethren have in South Korea
where a 1/3rd of the country is Spirit filled and baptised, and they pray in
earnest to God that the whole country maybe converted.

Lord open our understanding on this subject.

Ian Wylie
The University of Dundee
E-mail iwylie@uk.ac.dund.mcs
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:45:51 GMT
From:         "Ian (Travolta) Wylie C2/Q2" <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Hell's .Bell's video

Has anyone out there seen the Hell's Bell's video about rock/pop music?

The video is very good for explaining things like, back masking, the links
between drugs and rock, the links between satanism and rock, etc.

I'd say the video was excellent, except for the bit at the end, (people dancing
some sort of gospel song in funny dresses) ;-) weird or what

In Christ

Ian Wylie
University of Dundee
Scotland
E-mail iwylie@uk.ac.dund.mcs
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:32:45 EST
From:         Tim King <timk@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Re: A Hindu View of Amy Grant

Scott D. Weberg wrote:
>>> Then a friend of mine at work went to an Amy Grant concert in Jackson
>>> last year... he said, "she didn't preach at
>>> all.  She said something about loving people more, and that was it.
>>> Even her songs didn't directly talk about God."

Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM> responded:
>Well Scott, I dont know what concert your friend went to , however I
>recently attended the heart in motion concert in australia.
>She did DIRECTLY talk about both her faith and God... She sang several
>out and out WORSHIP songs, including El Shaddai and Lead me on..


Hi, y'all.  Nice to see you all again.  How's everyone doing?  Hanging in
I hope.

I thought I'd add that also at the Heart in Motion concert at Great Woods
in Mannsfield, MA (USA), Amy spoke specifically about her faith.  I also
was very impressed that she sang El Shaddai, along with other
Christ-centered songs.

In any case, it is definitely true that Amy talks about God in at least
some of her concerts.  Also, Scott's report is technically hearsay, since
he wasn't at the concert.  Is it possible that Scott's friend just didn't
recall the part about Christ?  Or is it possible that he didn't perceive
Amy's talk as "preaching," and therefore didn't connect it with
"christianity?"

More importantly, if one of my unsaved friends were to report on an Amy
Grant, Micheal W. Smith, or other such concert in the same way, could I
make better use of the situation?  Could I respond, for example, that not
all christians preach religion, that some of them are more interested in
relationships, and that's what christianity is supposed to be about?


(Actually, I went with a friend who likes electronic/dance music, and who
enjoyed "Baby, Baby" and "Every Heartbeat" on the radio.  He's not a
christian, but he enjoyed the concert just the same.  I also went to see
Kim Hill, who opened for Amy at Great Woods.  Prior to this concert, my
impression of Amy and her new music was not extremely favorable.)


I make it a habit not to try to determine whether or not person X is saved
or not.  Isn't it really between person X and God?  However, as to claims
that Amy doesn't act like a christian, I haven't yet heard anyone say,
"Amy Grant does X <insert citation here>, and christians shouldn't be doing
X <give scripture references here>."  As to the assertion that she
compromises the word of God, I haven't yet seen anyone state, "Amy Grant
claims (explicitly or implicitly) the bible supports X <insert quote
here>, but the bible contradicts it <give scripture references here>."

-TimK
--
         Tim King           Saying without citing is not saying at all!
    timk@world.std.com
      timk@ycrdi.com
                         All original material (c) 1992 J. Timothy King
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:29:34 -0500
From:         Coty Pinckney <TPINCKNEY@WILLIAMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christmas, the feast of the incarnation

    As a follow-up to Nancy's statements concerning the incarnation,
let me share the words of "Secret Birth," a Christmas Carol of recent
vintage by Timothy Dudley-Smith:

Child of the stable's secret birth,
The Lord by right of the lords of earth
While angels sing of a king newborn
The world is weaving a crown of thorn.
A crown of thorn for that infant head
Cradled soft in the manger bed.

Eyes that shine in the lantern's ray,
A face so small in its nest of hay,
Face of a child who is born to scan
The world of men through the eyes of man,
And from that face on the final day
Heaven and earth shall flee away.

Infant hands in a mother's hand,
For none but Mary can understand
Whose are the hands and the fingers curled
But his who fashioned and made our world.
And through those hands in the hour of death
Nails shall strike to the wood beneath.

Child of the stable's secret birth,
The Father's gift to a wayward earth,
To drain the cup in a few short years
Of all our sorrows, our sins, our fears;
Ours the prize for the road he trod,
Risen with Christ, at peace with God.
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:33:01 EST
From:         Tim King <timk@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Re: A Hindu View of Amy Grant

Hi, Ann!  'Glad to meet you.  I hope you had a good holiday.


"Ann M. Hathcock" <ALI00AMH@UNCCVM.BITNET> writes:

>I have one comment on citing something that Amy Grant has did that did not
>look very Christian-like.  I saw her concept video of "Baby, Baby" on "Current
>Affair"....  Their was no baby in the video ... She was slinking around
>in a very seductive way with a man who "Current Affair" pointed out was not
>her husband.

(a) ... a man who was not her husband in real life.  Was he playing the
    part of her husband in the video?  Did she appear with any other man
    in the video?  How much time was portrayed by the video?  3 minutes?
    10 years?  Indeterminite?

(b) You forgot to provide your scripture references that say that
    "slinking around" is generally sinful.  Ditto for calling one's
    spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. "baby."


>I do not buy Amy Grant's albums because in my opinion her talent
>is no greater than most artist in Contemporary music and I do not
>like having to justify if I think a person ministry is real.  It is
>alot easier if the artist is not controversial.

I appreciate the difficulty you must be having with this issue.  I realize
that it is quite possible that Amy's music, videos, and position may
conjure up images in your mind that may be difficult for you to deal with.
I also realize that you may be under alot of pressure to reject Amy's
music, for whatever reason.  Therefore, I respect that you do not buy Amy
Grant albums.  I, personally, do not buy them either.  However, I do buy
some secular, contemporary albums, because, IMO, they are high quality,
dignified, and enjoyable.

Also, Amy Grant has a music ministry, by definition, if her music
ministers to someone.  This is a point we must each individually
determine.

Nevertheless, the morality of her music and videos has not been thoroughly
addressed here.

Take care, Ann.
-TimK
--
         Tim King           Saying without citing is not saying at all!
    timk@world.std.com
      timk@ycrdi.com
                         All original material (c) 1992 J. Timothy King
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:49:31 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CS LEWIS - SCREWTAPE REVIEW

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Norm Conquest)
>Subject: Re: CS LEWIS - SCREWTAPE REVIEW
>Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
>Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 06:27:09 GMT

Ian Williams read "The Screwtape Letters", and had a few complaints
about what he found.

I don't agree with CS Lewis about everything, and I agree with some of
Mr Williams's comments about the quality of Mr Lewis's arguments in "Mere
Christianity".  But in this particular case, it's worth noting that the
introduction to the book says that some of what Screwtape writes is not
true -- even from Screwtape's own perspective.

We had some discussion about whether Mr Lewis's beliefs about the Trinity
were orthodox, and the complaints in that case were based on an attempted
explanation.  Now we have complaints based on comments in a work of fiction.
In both cases, I think it is a mistake to draw sweeping conclusions about
CS Lewis's doctrinal beliefs based on the kind of writing cited.

The Church is plagued by enough real disagreements as it is -- starting NEW
disagreements by drawing conclusions from fictional works is hardly necessary.


I have no doubt that Mr Williams disagrees with some of Mr Lewis's beliefs.
But we should all be more careful to understand each other before we start
talking about either heresy or error.


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu
"I think what you're doing is disgusting and wrong, but that's between you
 and Satan." -- Woody Boyd
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:23:18 GMT
From:         "Ian (Travolta) Wylie C2/Q2" <iwylie@MCS.DUNDEE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: test

Is the original not "He is no fool who loses all that which he cannot keep,
                      to gain all that which he cannot lose"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:00:25 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: contraception - a crosspost

On Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:35:00 PDT <SWILBURN@GONZAGA> said:
>I agree with Scott D. Weberg that using the "rhythm method" of birth control
>is not the best way to plan a family.  After all, if a couple cannot support
>all the children they give birth to, then those children are being prevented
>from living a comfortable life just because their parents did not use a good
>method of birth control.

MAKS> This reminded me of one I had heard. I mean we could use a little
      bit of humor once in a while.

      "We use the rhythm method of birth control and it works. Why all
      12 of our children are musically inclined."

Maks.
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 08:40:56 -0700
From:         "Steven E. Hoell" <seh@NEUTRON.PHYSICS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A Hindu View of Amy Grant

Ian (Travolta) Wylie writes:

>Although Amy Grant thinks and sells herself as being Christian, we know
>according to her fruit, (music, statements made, lifestyle, etc), that she is
>not like Jesus, and that is the test.

Neither is Travolta.


Steve Hoell             seh@neutron.physics.arizona.edu
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:28:28 CST
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: contraception - a crosspost

Eric Writes...
> Scripture forbids "fornication" -- or "unlawful sexual intercourse."
> Now, who decides what sexual intercourse is "lawful" or not?  Scripture
> strangely enough does not directly condemn pre-marital sex, just
> "fornication."  My point is that simply because Scripture doesn't say
> that the use of contraceptions is sinful does not mean that it's OK.
>
 I have a few thoughts or questions that kind of                        ns
relate to this kind of styff.
 Now, what is the difference between when the Bible says that a man
"took" a woman, and she became his wife or concubine, and pre-marital   l
sex that goes on today. I guess my question is, what is the difference
between Isaac taking Rebekah and Abraham taking another wife and
concubines after Sarahs death. I don't see anywhere where it says they
were married. Just that they took each other. If anyone can answer this ful.
is simple language please reply. When did the concept of having a
wedding before a clergyman take place. And when did women stop becoming ay
concubines after they were  with a man? And how was it determined that
a woman was a concubine or wife? I know this is quite a few questions,
but I am just curious.
Yvette


   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst from Dallas - Texas
"I know worse things about myself that you will ever say about me." Anon
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:43:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: An Aside on Bombay

2 years or so ago I had the unforgettable experience of teaching Air India
programmers for a couple of weeks. The number of Christian churches compared
to Hindu/Moslem places of worship seemed lower than a "nominal" Catholic
population would merit.

What a place and what a contrast to where I live. Some of the vegetation and
the temperatures were similar, but that's where the similarity stopped. Hmm.
People with jobs crammed into slum areas because of housing shortages. It's
where all the money is (comparatively speaking) but there isn't anything much
available to live in. I guess it pointed out the difference between developed
and developing nations very clearly.

Back to work Diefenbach!!!! (says my conscience)

Regards
Ken D.
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:50:22 CST
From:         jesse carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Dave Talaga, I presume

Dave ;

Sorry bout the public post ... but is my E-mail gettin to you at all?


Jesse
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Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:13:18 -0600
From:         Tom Shelton 314 694-3831 <tjshel@MAPLE.MONSANTO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Home Schooling...

Yvette (and anyone else interested),

    A BEKA is available to anyone as far as I know.  I would suggest getting
their catalog (we picked one up at a curriculum fair).  I don't know whether
they charge for it or not.  Their phone number is (800) 874-3591 or
international (904) 478-8933.  Their mailing address is
        Box 18000
        Pensacola, FL 32523-9160

Tom Shelton

TJSHEL@MAPLE.MONSANTO.COM
From: LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.BITNET (Lon Mendelsohn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: CS Lewis - Abolition of Man 2
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:20:23 GMT
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              11 Jan 1993 12:08:15 EST from <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>

I will add a few comment of my own to Dan Harling's --

I have started _The Abolition of Man_ several times, but I have never
finished it;.  However, C.S. Lewis has stated in his preface to _That
Hideous Strength_ that this novel takes the principles outlined in
_The Abolition of Man_ and applies them to a fictional setting.  I think
that this novel, together with the other novels mentioned by Dan Harling
(_Brave New World_, _1984_), can help us to understand what C.S. Lewis
is dealing with in _The Abolition of Man_.  This is, btw, a theme that
crops up in many of his other works.  It is at least mentioned in _The
Screwtape Letters_, when Screwtape advises Wormwood on how to influence
the thinking of his patient.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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