HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kbarr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith Barr)
Subject: Re: Rainclouds
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 02:32:59 GMT

In article <10306@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>Ahmed Abd-Allah writes
>+ 7. Finally (whew!), regarding the 2 cumulus raincloud types, I read that
>+ if the cumulonimbus cloud gets enough vertical development, the rain 
>+ droplets in the upper half can freeze, yielding hail, snow, etc.  
>+ Does this mean only these type of clouds give this type of frozen 
>+ precipitation (because the other types of rainclouds are all at low 
>+ elevation)?  
>
>That's a function of the height of the freezing level [FL]. In the summer
>the FL is rather high and only some cumulus clouds will get that high. In
>the winter, when the FL is much lower [perhaps on the ground], frozen
>precipitation can come from *any* cloud.

Interesting side note:

Here at the National Center for Atmospheric Research it is generally
believed that a storm won't electrify unless it penetrates the freezing level.
In fact we have a fair amount of proof that if there is no graupel, snow, or
hail, it is impossible for a cloud to electrify, and therefore this is no
chance for lightning and thunder.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Rainclouds
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:52:31 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Aug13.164925.19545@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
]Hmm.  The climate warms up, the freezing level rises.  Less lighting.  Less  
]forest fires, more carbon fixed, climate cools.
]
]Wonder if  this is a significant part of the feedback loop

I doubt it. I think the forests will always burn eventually, as they
accumulate more and more fuel. Think in 1000 year time frames and
the effect has to be negligible. On the other hand, perhaps old growth
forests (of which you would have more under your scenario) fix less
carbon. Who knows.


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
"Modern liberals are the termites in the structure of our society."
  John Moore
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Green sky and T-storms
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:40:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK


The green you see is due to hail refracting sunlight.  The light ray
enters the ice particle, bounces around a couple of times along the
edges (I forget the angles, once again like an idiot I'm typing w/o
references), and then spreads out as though a prism were acting on 
it.  The person seeing the rays will only see the green band, the 
other colors spread out too much to view.

Of course, identifying a hailstorm by this method is useless at night,
like on April 28 of this year, when a good part of the Fort Worth/Dallas
Metroplex got hammered with stones ranging from 2 to 6 inches ( 2 1/2
inch at my folk's house in Keller, big enough to get a new roof).

Marc Foster
OUSOM/OUNNWR
Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2811 sci.physics:13171
From: jmgreen@pilot.njin.net (Jim Green)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.physics
Subject: Re: pressure at the center of the earth?
Keywords: pressure, earth core, blackhole, truth or consequences
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:02:45 GMT
Followup-To: sci.geo.meteorology
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


The center of the Earth is at very high pressure.  It is trur that the
value of g(r) at r=0 is 0.  But the pressure at the center is just the
weight of the molecules at r>0 per unit area.  Molecules for all r>0
ARE attracted to the center --- g(r)/=0 for r>0 --- thus there is a
transmitted force toward the center and hence a very high pressure at
the center.     Jim Green
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name:  James M. Green                         )*(     
Email: jmgreen@pilot.njin.net                (***)         "The Lord may be
Smail: Stockton State College NAMS          )*(*)*(       subtle, but
       Pomona, NJ  08240-9988              (* (*) *)           he is not mean."
ICBM:  39.49333 N  74.53083 W               )*(*)*(               
FAX:   609/652-4958                          (***)               A. Einstein
Voice: 609/652-4558                           )*(     
_______________________________________________|_______________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Green sky and T-storms
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:59:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt93rF.G0C
Distribution: na
Organization: NSSL

In article <1992Aug19.171721.16620@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> jlevit@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Jason John Levit) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug18.055305.21285@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Steve Jascourt) writes:
>>
>>Which would correspond to a CAPE of only 1600 J/kg after using the rule of
>>thumb that you take half of the CAPE when predicting updraft velocities.
>>1600 J/kg is not all that unusual even after accounting for water-loading in 
>>computing the CAPE, plus, storms with the strong long-lived updrafts tend to 
>>be supercells whose dynamic pressure perturbations will add more vertical 
>
>  Eh?  Take half the CAPE?  Are you talking about this equation:
>
>  W(max)=sqrt(2XCAPE) ?
>
>  How valid is this equation for predicting updraft velocities?  If we
>  take a strange test case, such as Plainfield, Illinois, the CAPE that
>  day was around 7800 J/KG...that would lead to something like a 120
>  m/s updraft.  Can updrafts REALLY reach this velocity?

The validity of the thermodynamic equation for predicting maximum
updraft velocities is a little difficult to verify in nature.  We don't
have very many measurements of maximum updraft and its difficult to 
trust them in any case.  In the numerical models, except in low CAPE,
high shear environments (such as those associated with hurricane-
spawned tornadoes), wmax typically is about 50-75% of that predicted
by the thermodynamic method.  The largest values I've seen have been
on the order of 80-90 m/s, although I can't think of any reason why
values such as 120 m/s aren't possible.  I did a "Plainfield-like"
simulation (CAPE ~ 6500 J/kg, helicity ~ 150 J/kg) and got a peak
updraft in the 50-60 m/s range.  Water loading and the absence of 
a favorable vertical perturbation pressure distribution field in 
the storm (because of the low-shear, low-helicity wind profile)
cut down the updraft.  The big updraft cases I've seen have been
in 3500-4000 J/kg CAPE, 800 J/kg helicity environments where the
perturbation pressure helps out a lot.  

In the low CAPE, high-helicity environments, the perturbation 
pressure force can be large enough that wmax is greater than that
predicted by the thermodynamic limit.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 18 August)  .228 BA  .354 SLG  .271 OBA
28 H away from .300  8 HBP  8 BB    684+ PA w/o a sacrifice
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Rainclouds
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:08:39 GMT
Distribution: na

David Halliwell writes

+    Hmmm. Climate warms up, there is more evaporation, leading to more
+ frequent occurences of conditional instability, leading to more
+ frequent vertical cloud development, leading to higher clouds, leading
+ to more/less (pick one) freezing clouds and more/less lightning....

Leading to more albedo, leading to less insolation, leading to cooling???

+     Ain't clouds a bugger in this climate change problem???

Almost as big a problem as "where do we store all this data?".

+ I haven't seen many single clouds (especially the convective type) that
+ cover more than one 5 degree by 5 degree grid square :-)

Get a bigger computer.

James
From: gopher@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Chris Bovitz)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Calculation of Windchill?
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:00:42 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Aug13.194804.12723@ccu.umanitoba.ca> milton@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Dave Milton) writes:
>I have temperature in degrees Celsius and wind speed in nautical
>miles per hour. What is the formula I need to calculate wind
>chill factor in watts per square metre?

Or wind chill in degrees Celsius for us Americans, please?


Thanks.

-- 
Chris Bovitz              |    "I demand that you shoot me now!"
Department of Meteorology |    
Univ of Wisc - Madison    |       -- Daffy Duck
moonunit@meteor.wisc.edu  |
From: dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Perry G Ramsey)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Changing Dewpoints with Altitude Re: Rainclouds
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:53:41 GMT
Organization: Purdue University, Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences

In article <1992Aug12.220444.13479@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> ...@cs.utexas.edu:ibmchs!auschs!aspencer.austin.ibm.com!aspencer writes:
>Also, why does dewpoint fall slightly with a drop in pressure?  That is,	
>why does a parcel of rising air not only fall in actual temperature, but 
>is also retarded in forming a cumulus cloud by about 1 degree fall per 
>Kfeet in dewpoint?  

Because as the pressure of the entire parcel goes down, so does the
partial pressure of the water vapor in it.  Dewpoint is just a measure of
vapor pressure.



-- 
Perry G. Ramsey         Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu  Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN USA
perryr@purccvm          This signature gives you specific legal rights.  You
N9LFF                   might have other rights that vary from state to state.
From: lc1bocv1@cine88.cineca.it
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: SOS: EPA address needed
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:07:10 +0100
Organization: CINECA, Italian Interuniversity comp. centre

I' a student at the Physic Department ,Bologna Italy.
I'm concerned in some EPA report, 
but i don't known how to receive them. Can anyone provide me an
address ( e-mail, if possible) to order this publications ?
thanks in advances.

fabrizio ravegnani
lc1bocv1@cine88.cineca.it
From: gary@mercury.hw.stratus.com (Gary Howland)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Looking for NOAA info
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:14:26 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.





I hope this newsgrp can help me.
Can anyone out there tell me where
I can access N.O.A.A.'s thermal 
contouring maps?  I'm trying to get
water temp information for the New
England area.

   Thanks;

                                                              /|
                                    ____   "it's a keeper"   / |
                             _   ___\   \____               /  |
                            |=\ /########  @ \       _n    /   0
        Gary Howland        |= >        >   <     0\ ( )  /    ^     
                            |_/ \___________/     ^ \_|__/o    
gary@mercury.hw.stratus.com                          (-)
      GONE FISHING        ^^//////////^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'^`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: gpetty@rain.atms.purdue.edu (Grant W. Petty)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Mission to Planet Earth
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:46:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Earth & Atmospheric Sciences, Purdue University

In article <12AUG199217332967@ltp2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
gumley@ltp2.gsfc.nasa.gov (Liam E. Gumley) writes:

(stuff deleted)

>That's why EOSDIS is expected
>to be the largest civil computing contract in history, so I'm told.
>In fact NASA just requested Hughes and TRW (the bidders) to submit new
>cost estimates because the existing estimates were thought to be too low.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

This illustrates why government procurement has such a horrible
reputation for wastefulness.  Why not just say to the lowest bidder,
"OK, that's your estimate and you got our contract based on that
estimate; now we (and the taxpayers) are going to hold you to it, come
hell or high water, and make YOU eat any cost overruns!"

Jeez.

-- 
Grant W. Petty                                gpetty@rain.atms.purdue.edu
Assistant Prof. of Atmospheric Science        (317) 494-2544
Dept. of Earth & Atmospheric Sciences     "All standard disclaimers apply"
Purdue University, West Lafayette IN  47907-1397  
Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2806 sci.physics:13141
From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.physics
Subject: Re: pressure at the center of the earth?
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:55:12 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
Keywords: pressure, earth core, blackhole, truth or consequences
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

In article <sv#ns=b@quantum.on.ca>, ajedgar@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Edgar) writes...
>To settle a difference of opinion <grin> I would be most grateful
>for an answer and explanation for this question:
> 
>	"What is the pressure at or near the center of the earth,
>	 is it very large or very small?"

The center of the Earth undoubtedly contains a cherry - just like those
liquor filled chocolates.   

Back to physics...  The center of the Earth is under tremendous pressure.
How could it be any other way?  The liquid core is under so much pressure
that geologists believe (though I don't think that the experimental evidence 
is entirely conclusive) that there is a solid center to the core - tremendously
hot metal which is solidified under the pressure.

No planet-sized self-gravitating object could easily be constructed so 
that the center was a low-pressure region.  The object would have to have 
some kind of supporting structure outside the central region that could
withstand the huge pressure from above without transmitting through to the
core.  Maybe a cold solid diamond sphere with a central hollow...  

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character
SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV		that if I should come to life after my death
				and some mathematician were to tell me that it
				had been definitely settled, I think I would
				immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Steve Jascourt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Mt Pinatubo aerosols
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:21:33 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In answer to my own question:
>Here in Madison our sunsets are spectacular flaming orange even in a very
>clear airmass, though they were not so during the winter and spring and
>even until a few weeks ago. And the sun overhead is surrounded by white even
>on the clearest of days.
>
>Has anybody been following the location of plumes of Mt Pinatubo aerosols?

I have recently found out that a large volcanic eruption reaching the
stratosphere occured in Alaska in late June, which would explain the
sudden recurrence of great sunsets in Madison while they have not been
occuring in OK/TX (according to various people's posts to this newsgroup).

Also of interest, I have heard that Mt Pinatubo appears to be preparing for
another major eruption. After the third coldest July on record, what we
need now in Madison is more volcanic aerosols for the coldest winter ever.
Brr. I think (hope) not!

By the way, nobody has yet responded to the more scientific queries in my post:
>What size are the sulphuric acid droplets, and does this size distribution
>evolve with time? I would have expected more globally uniform conditions
>than my sunsets have indicated, though I suppose a large part of the
>variations we are seeing are due to the temperature-dependent chemistry of
>the sulphuric acid droplet aerosols. If anybody can explain what is going on,
>why the seasonal variation and why the aerosol effects should be as 
>spectacular now as they were a year ago after a long interlude of less
>aerosols at 44 degrees N latitude, please post your explanation.
>
>Also, does anybody have solar radiation data (direct and diffuse) for 
>high latitude northern hemisphere locations for this summer? 500mb heights
>have been very low over most of the northern hemisphere high latitudes
>most of the summer. Unless the mass has sloshed around to other parts of
>the planet, in the mean, this indicates lower thicknesses --> lower mean
>layer temperatures. The volcanic aerosol would have a particularly more
>pronounced radiative effect on high latitude summer radiation because of the
>long slant path and the long time period of the influence; I am speculating
>that the low 500mb heights are in large measure due to the volcanic aerosol.
>The result has been to displace the polar jet far south of its normal position
>(except in certain local regions due to flow patterns, but it has been
>well south on average), with cool high's to the north of the jet therefore
>also further south (the jet and the high's are dynamically linked), and
>thus no summer in Madison (except for Sunday, when the dewpoint hit 78F :) ).
>(The cool weather in Madison has also been exacerbated by a nasty PNA
>pattern, but the air coming in from Canada and over eastern Canada has been
>cooler than it is supposed to be, so even with the same pattern, we would
>normally be somewhat warmer than we have been.)
>
>Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
>
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gumley@ltp2.gsfc.nasa.gov (Liam E. Gumley)
Subject: Re: Mission to Planet Earth
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: NASA-GSFC LTP Computing Facility Code 920.2
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.153945.2000@ncar.ucar.edu>, ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes...
>In article <10295@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>> Mark Goodman writes
>> + >3) How are we going to use all that data?  Does NASA have a
>> 
>> A better question would be: how are we going to STORE all that
>> data, and make sizable portions available to the research community?
> 
>NASA Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) at Goddard Space Flight Center.
>I imagine they will release chunks on CD-ROMs, as they have with other
>data.  I think we (NCAR's Data Support Section) may get some too.

There will in fact be many archive centers across the country.  But we
are talking about some rather large data volumes.  For example, the data rate
from MODIS alone will be around 70 gigabytes per day (at Level-0).
The volume will not be as large at the lower product levels (2 and on)
but there's still a lot of data to deal with.  That's why EOSDIS is expected
to be the largest civil computing contract in history, so I'm told.
In fact NASA just requested Hughes and TRW (the bidders) to submit new
cost estimates because the existing estimates were thought to be too low.

EOS should go a long way in addressing the needs of climate change detection
from a remote sensing standpoint.  It will certainly provide new types of
datasets that have never before been studied.  We certainly look forward
to the launch of EOS-AM in 1998.

Cheers,
Liam.
--
Liam E. Gumley                            | Phone    : (301) 982-3700
NASA/GSFC MODIS Science Data Support Team | Fax      : (301) 982-3749
Research and Data Systems Corporation     | Internet : gumley@ltp.gsfc.nasa.gov
Greenbelt MD, USA                         | Opinions expressed here are my own!
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.physics
From: pad@galaxy.nsc.com (Paul Denny x8349)
Subject: Re: pressure at the center of the earth?
Followup-To: sci.physics
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:52:56 GMT

In article <92233.150442DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Jon J Thaler) writes:
> ajedgar@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Edgar) writes...
> > What is the pressure at or near the center of the earth,
> > is it very large or very small?
> 
> If the Earth were had a constant density of 5 grams per cm**3 then
> the pressure at the center would be 6.4 million atmospheres
> (6.4 * 10**12 dynes per cm**2).  This is somewhat greater than the
> largest static pressure achieved in the lab.

Presumably the pressure increases towards the centre of a star even though
the gravity is decreasing could someone explain this or provide a reference?
what pressure is required to initiate nuclear reactions? what volume of gas
is undergoing fusion (it must be a tiny percentage) does the onset of fusion
depend on the rate of compression or just the pressure?

Hmm... A lot of questions I know but heres your chance to show off :^)
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Steve Jascourt)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Green sky and T-storms
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:53:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <1992Aug18.024007.4275@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster) writes:
>like on April 28 of this year, when a good part of the Fort Worth/Dallas
>Metroplex got hammered with stones ranging from 2 to 6 inches ( 2 1/2
                                                     ?????????
6 INCHES?????????????????????????????????????

Was there a local storm report with this figure? When was the last time a
six inch hailstone fell? How much CAPE was there that evening (00Z sounding
at SPS)? What is the terminal velocity of a six inch hailstone (assume it
is ellispoidal in shape)?  

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: green atmosphere
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 04:19:53 GMT

Someone else's posting or response regarding greenish atmosphere in severe
weather.

I have very vivid childhood memories of Northern Ohio tornado watches, 
a situation that occurred usually in summer.  Sometimes the sky 
would turn this sickly but distinct green.  This would also occur sometimes
after a thunderstorm.

What causes such bizarre coloration?

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology