From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Musashi Question
Date: 14 Apr 92 07:13:19 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Apr13.234534.25504@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>
>With the recent surge of post about Musashi, I have a question I was 
>wondering if anyone could help me with...
>
>Did Musashi have any children/offspring?
>
None I've heard of.

>From what I was told by Japanese friends he did not.
>
>
>But here's the reason I need concrete evidence.
>
>A white caucasion male showed up in Milwaukee within the past year.
>He says his name is Sabutai Musashi and that he is grandmaster of the
>"Shoga" style ninjitsu system.  
>`O
Well, he should've done some more research.

Miyamoto Musashi's "real" name was:

Shinmen Musashi-no-kami Fujiwara Genshin

The "Musashi" in the name refers to the province he was from.
His family name (uji) was "Shinmen". Now, if this guy was claiming
to have been adopted by somebody named "Shinmen", one might at least
give him credit for thoroughness. I have never seen the name "Sabutai".
I've seen "Saburo" ("third son"), but I can't even imagine what "Sabutai"
means. What does he say "Shoga" means and how does he write it?

>Now by taking one look at this style,
>(and I have had opportunity to watch other styles of Ninjitsu),
>it was easy to tell he was another good martial artist that threw
>a bunch of ju-jutsu and karate together and called it ninjitsu
>to make a fast buck.  Also by talking to him about his "ninpo 
>philosophies" and the basic differences beetween his and other
>ninjitsu systems.  (which could have been gotten from any book
>on the market, because his answers show no real insight, and as 
>a general rule from what I've seen most clans know of their common
>past history and link).  I've also been told that he changes
>his name every other week.
>
>Now here's the catch that also totally convinced me that this guy
>is a fraud.  Supposedly his Shoga system (by the way, he's only in
>his mid to early 30's and he's allready a grandmaster in a supposedly
>fully ranked system?), was started by Miyamoto Musashi's son.

What does the phrase "fully ranked system" mean?

>It went thru 33 generations and everyone in the clan was 
>convienently(sp?) killed by the bomb on Nagasaki.

Hmmm...Miyamoto Musashi was born in 1584. Let's assume, for the sake of
argument, that his "son" was born when he was still rather young. How about
16? That means his son was born in 1600. 33 generations since then? That's
33 generations in 392 years - that means that the average descendant was 
born when his father was 11.8 years old. That's the average, mind you.
Counting the occasional "late-bloomer" (like this gentleman in California)
we must have some 9 or 10 year-olds out there doing their bit to pass on the
family legacy. An isolated instance of this certainly isn't impossible, but
a consistent pattern? Over almost 400 years? And this family is supposed to
be dying off????? Just when were these kindergarten Casanovas supposed to
have trained? Sounds like they were spending all their time on "newaza"
to me ;-). Hell, if they were *that* precocious, we're probably
*ALL* descendants of Miyamoto Musashi! Of course, that's just on my
mother's side. On my father's side I'm descended from Julius Caesar,
Charlemagne, Darius of Persia, the Wandering Jew, Solomon, Hypatia of Alex-
andria, *and* Istvan Arpad, of course ;-). 

>EXCEPT.....

Heh heh heh...
>
>One lone survivor of the clan who came to California and happened
>to adopt an inquisitive young 12 year old whom he met at one of his
>seminars.

Hmm...he's in his 30's now and he went to a ninjutsu seminar when he was
12 ... say, about 20 years ago? Not too likely. I don't think *anybody*
was claiming to teach ninjutsu in the States in 1972. Hell, I was a
16-year-old white belt then and read every copy of BB I could get my
hands on. I'm sure I would have noticed *something* ;-).

>And now this fully grown Sabutai Musashi just happened to pick
>Milwaukee out of all the places in the US or the world for that
>matter, 

I can't resist this...in honor of the 50th anniversary of _Casablanca_'s
release (this week!):

"Out of all the dojos in all the world, you had to come into mine...
 well, here's kicking at you, kid"

Thanks, I feel *much* better now. ;-)

>to share his dying art as the "last of the shoga clan".

And the first, as well. Alpha and omega, the beginning and the living
end! Sheesh!

Well, Miyamoto Musashi was a member of the Fujiwara clan (that's what
the "Fujiwara" is doing in his name). I've never heard of a "Shoga" clan.
I doubt if Miyamoto Musashi did, either ;-).

>This totally sounds like a cheezy Canon films movie (Staring 
>Sho Kosugi as the lone survivor of the Atomic blast and Shoga Klan,
>and Jean Claude Van Damme as the adopted heir and wonderkid).

Gee, if they're going to spell clan with a "K", maybe they should get David
Duke ;-).

Actually, the real potential is for one of those old Toho
rubber-monster-suit-and-toy-city monster flicks about some ancient 
Samurai who is in suspended animation and gets revived by the Nagasaki
blast. He would, of course, grow to a height of 500 shaku (his sword,
through unexplained movie magic, would undergo a similar transformation -
are you listening, Dr. Freud?), and save Dai Nippon Teikoku from the
hairy gaijin. The title would be something like _Bakudan_no_Bushi_.

>What I'd like to be able to do is get somewhere in ACTUALL print
>by a REPUTABLE source, that Musashi had NO KIDS.

Nobody can do that. When Socrates said the "it is a wise man indeed
who knows his own father", he wasn't kidding. There is absolutely
no way to establish conclusively that Miyamoto Musashi had no children.
I'm pretty certain he had no *legitimate* children. If he had, he would
have passed on *his* ryu of swordsmanship, the Niten Ichi Ryu, to one
of *them* rather than to his senior student (whose name escapes me at the
moment).
There probably aren't enough scraps of him left to do a DNA match on
this probably-mythical-and-no-doubt-conveniently-dead gentleman in
California, either. 

My $0.02 worth:
The guy is either (1) a (possibly harmless) crank, or (2) a con artist.
Next thing you know, he'll start telling folks about the top-secret, fight-
to-the-death tournament he won in Hong Kong...


The least he could do is learn arithmetic. Implicit kiddie-porn
is kinda disgusting...

Mencken was right.

Steve