From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: specifically comparing NeXT with Mac...
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 20:16:25 GMT

Mark Eaton writes
> Im getting sick of the CLI thread, and the 7.1/os2/win thread,
> so im starting a new one ;)
>  
Hurrah!  (Of course, within a few days this thread will have mutated  
back to a CLI vs GUI or preemptive vs coop multitasking thread  
without any change in subject line, but that's life)

> I love my Mac, period. However Im impressed with the NeXT.
> However, I would never have a NeXT at home. First, and foremost
> for me when I made my purchase decision, about 8 mos. ago, was
> the price issue. While I think the NeXT gives you more for more,
> I think NeXTs lack of a lower end machine is a problem.
> 
Agreed.  NeXT needs a cheaper low-end machine than they currently  
offer, and are losing many potential sales because of it.  But bear  
in mind that if IIsi-level performance fills your needs, then you  
don't need a NeXT.  If your needs evolve to where you need IIci-level  
performance, then you're in the area where NeXT becomes competitive,  
and where a NeXT would probably look preferable; you'd get more, but  
you'd pay a little more.  If you're in the Quadra range, then I think  
there's no comparison.  You get more (or at least as much) for less  
with NeXT.

> Also, I wouldnt want a NeXT machine at home, isolated from
> any networking or server. I think the NeXT suffers more from
> this than the Mac.
> 
It depends on what you do.  I happily used my NeXT as a standalone  
for 1.5 years; even now, even though I'm on the internet, 95% of what  
I do uses the system in a standalone mode.  The NeXT allows you to  
use the capability of networking easily and at no extra cost  
(everything you need is bundled) but does not require it.

> I also just dont like Unix. I think its a bloated, arcane,
> slightly over-the- hill OS. Yes, I know mach is supposed to
> be a slimmer trimmer kernel, but the NeXT just doesnt seem as
> speedy as id expect an 040 to be...
> 
You're entitled to your opinion; I'm not enough of a Unix weenie to  
care to argue.  In fact, I know very little about Unix.  Give me a  
Unix command line and i won't be able to do much more than list  
files.  I don't need to.  I can do all that stuff using NeXT's GUI.   
The CLI is there for CLI-lovers; the rest of us use the GUI.  NeXT  
gives you the power of Unix, but insulates you from Unix itself  
completely unless you choose to go into it.

> From what Ive been reading in c.s.n.misc, it appears
> that NeXT inc. is really screwing there customer base.
> That doesnt sound too appealing. While Apple isnt the greatest
> co. in the world when it comes to cust support, at least they
> dont build machines which wont be compatible with future OS
> updates and HW expansion.
>
Oh?  You can use System 7 on a mac plus?
You can in fact use NS3.0 on an old cube, even one that hasn't been  
upgraded to an '040 (still a few around, but not many).  Its slow,  
but it runs.
You're absolutely right that NeXT treated users of the original  
Optical Drive pretty badly.  But by and large, they've been  
incredibly responsive to customer concerns and problems.  Hardly a  
day goes by without somebody posting reports of service above and  
beyond the call of contract.  What they need to work on is more  
consistency.

> I also dont like the gui on the NeXT. Dont get me wrong, its
> a nice environment but I dont feel comfortable in it... Its
> not all bad, and maybe Im really only dissatisfied with the
> browser. It seems a little clumsy to me...

Again, you're entitled to your opinion.  I feel the same way about  
the mac (:-) (Of course, I'd pick a Mac over Windows any day).  This  
is not something we'll resolve without having a religious war.  I  
suspect its more a matter of getting used to it than anything else.

> in favor of the NeXT ;) i do like some things: I like the
> real time scrolling, proportional sliders, program dock,
> display postscript is nice if slow, etc. unfortunately none
> of these things makes you *alot* more productive. And while
> Ive never developed on the NeXT, i love my think c.

Agree with all those things, except that I think they do make me (at  
least) a lot more productive.  Perhaps coming from a Mac background  
you don't notice it so much because these are all incremental  
improvements on the Mac environment rather than revolutionary; but I  
think they do, cumulatively, make a difference.
What I'd point to in particular is the heavy-duty multitasking that  
it lets me do.  Lets not get back into the preemptive vs coop  
multitasking argument, but I simply seem to be able to juggle more  
balls on my NeXT than I can on my Powerbook 170.

> well, of *course* this is all one mans opinion!  ;)
>  
As is mine.

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy