HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:41:22 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Jul23.203649.24892@news2.cis.umn.edu>, kimmel@epx.cis.umn.edu (Eric Kimmel) writes...
>In article <1992Jul21.161110.23401@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
> 
>>especially the roof backdrop, and apparently the teams that come in twice 
>>a year don't pick it up.  From experience, it seems to me that one game 
> 
>I have NEVER seen a single team practicing catching balls against the dome
>backdrop.  If they felt it was that big of a deal, they'd be out there
>working on it.

Well, apparently you haven't looked.  Boston practiced taking fly balls 
against the backdrop before this past series, and it was duly noted in the 
papers.  I seriously doubt that they're the only team ever to do this.  It 
also didn't matter.

Let's separate the issues.  The Twins have a fantastic ballclub, much 
better than the Red Sox.  They'll probably take three of four from the Sox 
in Fenway this weekend.  No one is making any excuses for the Sox' 
continued poor play on the road.  But the simple fact from my experience
watching televised games from the Metrodome is that it has the absolute
worst backdrop in the major leagues, the key being that it very much
favors the home team because it is so foreign to the experience of playing
baseball anywhere else.  I've just seen too many lost balls and poor jumps 
by fielders to believe otherwise.  And unlike a field with a bright sun or
whatever other faulty analogy someone might want to draw, the roof does
not present the same difficulty to both teams because it apparently *can 
be* learned, over time. 

Other teams build their rosters to their ballpark.  The Twins can too; 
that's fine.  But what exactly is it about the stadium and the makeup of 
the Twins' lineup, though, that has caused the Twins to enjoy the largest
home/road differential while in the Metrodome, by far, of all current
teams in baseball, beyond the advantage which any other current turf team
or power team or speed team has ever enjoyed?  What's the scientific
explanation, other than the roof/turf combination?  I don't see anything
else about the park that's particularly unusual, and likewise for the
Twins' players. 

An honest question: is there any limit to how far the game can be
distorted from the environs it's played in everywhere else, with a
justification that it's the team's prerogative to build itself a "home
field advantage"? 

---
Glenn Waugaman
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton, MA
g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com
---
From: bobn@hawkwind.Central.sun.COM (Bob Netherton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Carry-isms (was Re: Shoot Harry)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:40:39 GMT
Reply-To: Bob.Netherton@dallas.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkwind.central.sun.com

In article <1992Jul28.061114.4175@menudo.uh.edu>, st1ge@Elroy.UH.EDU (Edward Hui) writes:
|>         When I lived in Indiana I used to watch Cubs games quite often,
|> though I'm not a Cub fan.  What bothers me the most is that every time
|> an opposing pitcher pitch just a little bit inside to a Cub batter,
|> Harry will say "almost hit him!".  It's so ridiculous.

I don't take Harry too seriously unless the Cardinals are involved and
I then reserve the right to go non-linear :-)

I do get a little tired of the "There's a drive <gasp> <choke> way
ba <ack ack> ck, it might be <cough cough> ......" as the right fielder
makes the routine play.  His idolizing of Ryne Sandberg is a little
much - not ragging on Sandberg - but get it in perspective, Harry.


The thing about Harry is that he is the *true* baseball fan.  I remember
the folks in St. Louis loving him until he was ousted and you can see
the way the fans react during the 7th inning stretch.  He ain't what
he used to be, but he is a (1) fan, (2) institution, and (3) good
for the Cubs and baseball.

Bob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton)
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:57:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.190217.29416@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
> ... Fenway Park does not
>change the basic character of the game.  Fenway Park does not turn
>weakly-hit ground balls into singles and bloopers into doubles, and
>sharply-hit balls in the infield into outs (a property of artificial
>turf).  Fenway Park does not affect at all balls that are hit in the
>infield or which drop in front of outfielders.  In fact, Fenway Park does
>not significantly affect balls put into play that travel any less than
>300-350 feet.  In general, Fenway Park affects the value of certain
>extra-base hits, both positively and negatively, and that's about it. 

But it does turn weakly hit ground balls into outs, bloopers into
singles, and sharply-hit balls in the infield into singles.  Balls hit
in the infield or which drop in front of the outfielders still bounce,
an effect of the field.  In fact, balls put into play at any distance
are affected by the wind, the 600 Club (aerodynamics rearing its ugly
head), and the like.

You say tomato, I say tomatoe.

Colin.

P.S.  Before you flame me, let it be known that I do hate turf and could
do without dome stadiums as well.  I just thought I'd point out that all
fields affect play in some way; just because we're talking about Fenway
does not mean that every ball hit does what it was "supposed" to do.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:36:14 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.030944.22822@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>Forget about Salazar.  Who would you rather have: Bonds or Puckett?  Playing
>for an underdog Kirby has two rings.  Playing for a favourite Bonds has
>zip.

Why do you think that number of World Series rings is a useful determiner
of value?  It takes a lot of luck to get through two 7-game series
successfully.  Ernie Banks never got a World Series ring.  Ted Williams
never got a World Series ring.  Does that make Kirby Puckett a better
player than Ted Williams?  Is Mickey Hatcher a better player than Ted Williams?


Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:16:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.194501.7707@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>
>How can you claim that Salazar's contribution to his team's performance 
>is comparable to Puckett's?

The same way that you can claim that Puckett's contribution over the
last couple of years is comparable to Bonds': not very well.

Bonds had more HRs in 1990 than Puckett had in both years combined.
Not to mention a *far* superior OBP.

-Valentine
-- 
If Plantier goes, I go!				tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Past World Series
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:00:41 GMT

> = (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:

>i'll try the last 10 off the top of my head....
>
>1991: Twins over Braves 4-3
>1990: Reds over A's 4-0
>1989: A's over Giants 4-0
>1988: Dodgers over A's 4-1

> (memory starting to fail me)

I can fill in a couple:

>1987: Twins over Cardinals 4-3 
>1986: Mets over Red Sox 4-3
>1985: Royals over Cardinals 4-3
>1984: Tigers over Padres 4-1

I'm lost again.

>1983: Orioles and Cardinals???
>1982: Royals and Phillies???
>1981: Yankees and Dodgers???
>1980: Brewers and Phillies???



-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
From: mard@quads.uchicago.edu (Adrian N. Marden)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:09:14 GMT
Reply-To: mard@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul23.200609.5991@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes.uswest.com ( Steve Novak) writes:
>I can see no good result if Maddux is traded, from the viewpoint of 
>being a Cub fan.  Can anyone else?

	Well, a team in the pennant race (probably not Atlanta or Cincinnati, 
since they are STACKED in pitching talent) could give up some good young 
talent in order to get the pitching mastery of Greg Maddux for the end of the
season. Of course, the Cub's management would then either (a) completely ruin
any sense of confidence the young players had by bringing them up too early, 
and letting them make complete fools of themselves in the bigs (a la Derrick
May, Gary Scott, etc.) or (b) trade them away for a song and a dance to some 
team where they will soon become superstars (remember a guy named Rafael 
Palmeiro?). But for a team that has intelligent management, a trade might be 
the right thing to do with Maddux.
					Nick
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for DHes
Originator: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:41:05 GMT

Dave Winfield, Toronto		7.91
Paul Molitor, Milwaukee		7.86
Brian Downing, Texas		7.15
Chili Davis, Minnesota		6.80
Glenn Davis, Baltimore		6.70
Sam Horn, Baltimore		5.67
Albert Belle, Cleveland		5.42
Kevin Maas, New York		5.37
Harold Baines, Oakland		4.91
George Brett, Kansas City	4.77
Jack Clark, Boston		4.38
George Bell, Chicago		4.15
Tino Martinez, Seattle		4.13
Hubie Brooks, California	2.88

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RP/PA for AL and NL (More bogus RP stats)
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:30:33 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.195142.10078@cs.rose-hulman.edu>, rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
> 
> In article <3498@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)  
> writes:
> > In article <1992Jul22.032825.13187@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu  
> (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: 
> > >RBIs are certainly lineup dependent.  So why don't we just take RBIs
> > >as a percentage of opportunities?  Elias counts them for us, you
> > >know...  Of course we are left with three percentages then.  But we
> > >can use some sort of weighted average, if you like.
> > 
> > Does the Elias counting system take # of outs into account?  If not, I  
> don't
> > think it'll really work.  Two out RBIs are significantly harder.
> 
> They did the first year, but not afterwards.
> I seem to recall that 2out RBI from 3rdbase were more difficult,
> but that 2 out RBI from 1st and 2nd base were easier.

This seems backward to me.  With two outs, the guy at third can score on
just about any kind of hit, which is certainly not true for a runner at
first with two outs.

> I'll see if I can remember to find the numbers.
> 
> john rickert
> rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

-- 

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hearth@Unify.Com (Donald S. Hearth)
Subject: Re: NL Stats through 7/20
Keywords: Sheffield
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, CA, USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:36:52 GMT

  Sorry for the problem with Sheffield's stats. Here they are:

BATTERS        BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
HOWARD,T     .333  .333  .333   5   3   1   1   1  0  0  0   0   0   0  0  0  0
SHEFFIELD,G  .327  .556  .386  89 342  52 112 190 20  2 18  63  32  23  2  5 10

  In my original post, I think that they Howard and Sheffield are on the same
  line!

				   Don
-- 
***************************************************************************
*  Donald S. Hearth        *   address: hearth@unify.com                  *
*  UNIFY Corporation       *                                              *
*  Sacramento, CA          *   Go 49ers, A's, and LA Kings!               *
From: uiatma.atmos.uiuc.e!hbrooks@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:00:00 GMT
Organization: NSSL
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <1992Jul21.193135.6882@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>
>The only time the argument "who is the better player" has any meaning at all
>is in spring training when one player is trying to beat another out.  And
>seldom is that decision based mainly on statistics.  Of course the nerds 
well
>try to say that it should be...the rest of the time the question "who is the
>better player" is impossible to answer.  You can determine who has the 
>better DA or OPI or OBA or whatever but that is only going to tell you who
>has the best statistics and not who the best player is.  And if you think 
that
>they are one and the same then you have closed your eyes to a large part of
>the game.

Are you saying it's impossible to tell whether Fred McGriff or Andres 
Galarraga is a better player?  Barry Bonds or Luis Salazar?  Edgar Martinez
or Gary Gaetti?  Etc., etc.  I hate to ask the question (although the answer
might be amusing), but what the heck does "better" mean to you?  And on what
basis do you think teams make decisions in spring training most of the time?

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks (NSSL, Norman, OK) hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
Officially self-employed, self-speaking
Andres Galarraga (Through 21 July)  .194 BA  .286 SLG  .234 OBA
27 H away from .300  6 HBP  3 BB
From: i001444@disc.dla.mil (james ogorek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Moises Alou
Summary: post for Carlos Deno
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:28:47 GMT
Organization: Defense Industrial Supply Center, Philadelphia, Pa

Moises came off the disabled list 7-27-92 and played in Montreal's victory
over St.Louis Monday night.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lundy)
Subject: Re: Both Canadian teams in first place
Keywords: Canadian first
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:26:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.133126.27502@news2.cis.umn.edu>, lpeitso@epx.cis.umn.edu (Lance "Rentzel") writes:
|> Lundy
|> 
|> 	If both teams can actually finish first in their respective divisions
|> I will see Dave "Turkey Boy" Kirsch flying around the U of M going nuts.  I
|> would have to say that I think Dave would vote for Montreal if they went to 
|> the series.  He may be Blue Jays all the way right now, but I think he would
|> rather see Montreal win.  My reasons for this are: 1) Dave Kirsch is a little
|> on the screwy side.  2) I think Dave is just trying to build up the Jays 
|> confidence so they blow it in the end.  3) Lundy !!  4) If the Spos actually
|> win the whole damn thing Dave will get $1000 dollars from the big bad boys
|> in Vegas.  We'll see what happens with the Spos.  But anyways everyone just
|> go ahead and Lundy.

1) Who is this guy?

2) Is this one of Dave "Earwax Donor" Kirsch's evil creations? (same system)

3) How many Canadians does it take to screw in a light bulb?

4) Peitso!

A word of note:  This could be the Jays' year.  Mind you I am not woofing, but
just observing.  (Wasn't Toronto a Red Sox farm team at one point in the '60's?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Lundy           Encore Computer Corporation, 6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.    |
| jlundy@encore.com   Mail Stop 811, Ft. Lauderdale, FL  33313-4499         |
| "Win, Lose, or Draw, Bert Convy forever" - Mario Vargas Llosa		    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias)
Subject: Re: 69 Mets
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:32:20 GMT

In article <22974@oasys.dt.navy.mil> efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Edward Findler) writes:
>In rec.sport.baseball, Don@wang.com (Don Rivard) writes:
>>Who were the 4 mets pitchers during the 69 seasons?
>>Also who were the 4 20 game winners for baltimore?
>>Thanx
>
>Just off the top of my head, the Oriole pitchers were:
>
>Jim Palmer
>Dave McNally
>Mike Cuellar
>Wally Bunker?

nope. Pat Dobson was the fourth
>
>Also, I think the year they all won 20  was 1971.

yup

>Ted Findler


-- 
Pablo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!)
Subject: Re: white sox will take it all (NOT, SIGH!)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:19:43 GMT

clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman) writes:

>While I admire the sentiment, this article was, unfortunately, written in
>advance of last night's 12 inning debacle.

>The Sox have NO late relief.  Many of us have thought Thigpen wasn't the
>answer for a long time, but it's beginning to look like Radinsky isn't
>either.

>Personally, I don't feel safe with anything less than a five run lead going
>into the ninth inning.

you can't blame rad for that one last night,  the one guy he faced hit a ground
ball that should have been a routine play, and besides, he was out anyway, that ump was blind.  thigpen?  yes you can blame hime for that one.  i don't know
what his problem is, i think it is lack of control.  anyway, i though i saw
something in that first game, but i guess not.  oh well.  is it august yet?

jay
From: mndavis@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Mark N. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Yo Cardinal fans...
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:07:46 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell

To whom it may concern in St. Louis:

I'm trying to find out what the story is with Geronimo Pena. I'll the
info that I can find says that he's on the DL with a 'weak right shoulder'.
What in the hell kind of injury is that? What's his prognosis? Are they
keeping him on the DL to let Oquendo get some ABs? Is it true that they
want to play him the outfield when he returns? Is this guy as good as I
think that he can be? Is this enough questions?

                  Thanks in advance for any info,
                             Mark

PS - Of course he's on my rotissirie team. Why else would I be asking >:-)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!)
Subject: Re: Shoot Harry
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:17:21 GMT

Howard Wachtel <U13054@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>{extensive discussion of Harry Caray's amusing mis-pronunciations}

>   Well, in spite of Harry's decline, Steve Stone does an excellent
>job as color analyst to at least partially make up for Harry.  I
>think Harrelson and Paciorek are much worse, to say nothing of
>Ed Farmer.  John Rooney is excellent on the White Sox radio broadcasts,
>however.  It would be great to have Rooney and Stone working as a team.
>________________________________________________________________
>Howard K. Wachtel              University of Illinois at Chicago
>U13054@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU        Phone (312) 975-7970

you got to be kidding!!  harrelson and paciorek (IMO) are hilarious and
they know alot about baseball, alot more than Harry.  they also don't have
as much pleghm.

jay

--------------------------------------------------
to me, clowns aren't funny. in fact,
they're kinda scary.  i've wondered 
where this started, and i think it
goes back to the time i went to the
circus and a clown killed my dad.     -Jack Handey
--------------------------------------------------
From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Shoot Harry
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:22:41 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb) writes:

>Anyway, I was most amused by Harry's inability to pronounce Hal Morris'
>name correctly last night. "Hal Marsh"? 


you noticed that too?  wasn't that hilarious?  i though he was saying
"Kal Marsh" actually, but either way it was cracking me up.

i hate harry caray!

jay
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 30 Jul 1992 01:28:55 EDT
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: ** WIFFLEBALL **

Wiffleball has really taken off in popularity these past few years,
especially among older teenagers and college players. The game,
because everything is automatic and there is no running involved,
is a good way for players to sit back and relax, playing a simple
game of one on one or two on two in the back yard.

Here in Bangor, Maine, there are a number of high school kids and
college players who hold tournaments and who do barnstorming around
the area.

The intriguing thing about wiffleball is the diversity of the
playing "fields" and the ground rules. In my own back yard I have
a field I call Greenfield. It is made up of my back yard and three
of my neighbors' yards. Left field measures 146 feet, center 98
feet, and right 129 feet. The distance from the pitcher's mound to
the plate is 46 feet. What makes it so unique, at least in this
area, is that I have several ground rules that make games more in
tune to the results of a real baseball game than some 25-18 scores
a lot of games in this area have.

Some examples of rules that exist at Greenfield are: a ball that
lands in a garden is an out (there are gardens in left and center),
balls landing in bushes located where the short stop and third
baseman would play are outs, balls hitting a tree where the second
baseman would play is an out, and balls hitting a tree where the
first baseman would play are outs. In addition, my field has double
and triple plays, sacrifice flies, sacrifice bunts, and even hit
and runs (no one tries hit and runs, too much of a risk).

Base runners advance the number of bases a hit is good for, and
strike outs can only be swinging (no arguments!).

What I am interested in hearing from you is how many of you play
wiffleball on a pretty much regular basis throughout the summer,
and what are some of the quirks and rules of your "fields?" By
quirks, I mean like my field has natural land mines all over the
field for hitters, and left field has a fifty-foot tree cover for
150 feet, with the only real chance for hitters to hit a home run
being to straightaway center field (unless they can stroke one 120+
feet to right).

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
From: CUNYVM.BITNET!ALWHC@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Best Looking Swing
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:12:00 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


    When I watch a good hitter at the plate, they will show the swing of the
  hitter in slow motion. IMHO the best looking swings I've seen are:
        1) Dave Justice
        2) Will Clark
        3) Don Mattingly
        4) George Brett

    These  are all good hitters. Of course, there are more but these are the
  ones that I can name offhand. If you care to add more or comment on those
  that I have just named  feel free. I know that George Brett was influenced
  by Charlie Lau's  style of hitting, I don't know about the others though...

                                           Al
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball