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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:19:21 -0500
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Operation Pest.

> Date: 21 Dec 1992 07:21:00 -0500 (EST)
> From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
> Subject: Operation Pest.
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@asu.edu>
>
> I loved the article about the Operation Rescue rabble getting sung at when
> they tried to disrupt a church service.  When, oh when will Christians
> everywhere stand up and say that Terry and his reprobate organization don't
> represent them!

I always thought that Operation Rescue's energies were misdirected
(e.g., trying to prevent abortions at "point-of-sale" rather than
offering a viable alternative much earlier), but I have found this
position to be fairly ineffective in talking to O.R. supporters.  I
suspect they will lose much of their support over this incident.

Adopting the same tactics as militant gays was a *big* mistake, one
which will once again slander Christianity in the public eye--just as
we were making a comeback from the televangelist scandals a few years
back.  Christians in movies and on TV are actually being portrayed in a
*positive* light on occasion (rather than as zealous maniacs) for the
first time in years.  I can't *wait* to see the media coverage on
this.  Nothing makes sharing the Gospel harder than being associated
(in someone else's mind) with a bunch of zealous maniacs.  :-(
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:26:04 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE:BABIES & STUFF-RUSS

Dear Russ and Shellie,

Welcome to expected parenthood (Smile).  Isn't God awesome, to think there is
someone actually growing inside of Shellie.  This is one of God's greatest
miracles.  Someone to love God lends to us.  Enjoy this time together.  Chil-
dren are truly blessings to us.  You think you are excited now, just wait until
March.  You both have a blessed Christmas and joyous New Year.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We thank You and praise You for this little one that you are blessing Russ and
Shellie with.  We ask Your protection over this precious child and that You
will bless the child to be used for Your service one day.  May this experience
bring them closer and that they will have a healthy beautiful baby in March.
Please grant them Your love, joy, and peace always.  In Jesus Name we pray.
Amen and Amen.

Your sister in Christ (A blessed mother of five children - Smile)!!!

Shelby--
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:58:28 -0500
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Responsibility and final action

> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:10:11 SAT
> From: zane of dhahran <FACN34B%SAUPM00.BITNET@asu.edu>
> Subject: Responsibility and final action
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@asu.edu>
>
> ...Rather than argue (or discuss in a friendly
> way) whether Mr. K is legally at fault in the deaths of others, and if so, in
> what way, I think it would be better to talk about how we can minister to
> those who are in the situation where at times they might feel it is better to
> take their own lives than to suffer...

Our ultimate goal as Christians should be to put people like Dr. K out
of business: not by staging protests or bombing his office, but by
eliminating the *demand* for his services.

Our approach to abortion clinics should be the same: work to eliminate
the demand for their services.  Organizations such as Birthright try to
arrange room and board for expectant mothers, so they can keep their
children and get back to supporting themselves as quickly as possible.
By providing a working alternative, keeping the child rather than
having an abortion becomes a viable alternative that many women take,
thus reducing the demand for abortions.  This system works as well as
it does because there is a personal relationship between the people who
work in the program and the beneficiaries.

Establishing such a relationship with people in nursing homes and
hospitals is a ministry that would likewise reduce the desire for
suicide, particularly in the case of people who struggle with
depression.  Hospitals and nursing homes can be very impersonal,
degrading places at times.  Without a real friend, somebody to help
them get through the pain and depression, is it surprising that some
people would rather just end it all?

Many churches around here have this sort of ministry to unwed mothers,
to the elderly in nursing homes, to the homeless, and to prison
inmates.  We are called to let our light shine in the world, but all
too often we keep it hidden inside the walls we have erected to keep
out the world.  There is a tremendous need out there.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 10:31:41 -0600
From:         Tom Ford <tford@NEPTUNE.CONVEX.COM>
Subject:      A song for Christmas

Here is a song that we sang last Sunday morning.  It wasnt in the planned list
of songs.  Someone on the worship team started singing it spontaneously, then
we all sang it together.  It turned out to be very appropriate when you
think about giving and receiving at Christmas.

        You are everything I ever wanted
        You are everything I really need
        All my hopes and dreams and all my problems
        Fade away at the sight of You, at the sight of You

                Lead me to the Rock that is higher than I
                I long to dwell in the secret place
                There on my knees I will worship You, Lord
                And see the brightness of Your face

I don't think this has been published anywhere.  It was written by Brian
Mallory about three years ago.  I think he attends a Vineyard church somewhere
in California now.

Merry Christmas and Gloria in excelsis Deo!
Tom Ford
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:52:36 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ethics and Laws

> Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:17:00 MST
> From: Steven Klepzig <SKLEPZI@SSB1.SAFF.UTAH.EDU>
> Subject:      Ethics and Laws
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
>
> Usenet mail forward.
> ******   START OF FORWARDED MESSAGE   ******
>
> From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
> Subject: Ethics and Laws
> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:41:17 GMT
>
>   If a thing is wrong, should it necessarily be illegal?
>
>   If a thing is right, should it be enforced by law?
>
> Let me give some examples. (I don't want to talk about homosexuality
> in here; there's already far too much about it on CHRISTIA.)
> - It is right (perhaps...) to give some money towards letting the state
>   perform its functions, and we are legally obliged to pay taxes.
> - It is right to give to charitable causes, but the law doesn't make you.

This is a poor example; to my knowledge, several charitable causes are
funded by Federal tax funds (and possibly state funds as well), such as:

National Endowment for the Arts
Planned Parenthood

Effectively, the law *does* make you contribute to any such causes, as
you do not have the option of deducting any such group's share from
your taxes due, nor can you specify that one group's share be provided
to an alternate cause of which you approve.  For example, if you prefer
the way Birthright operates to the way Planned Parenthood operates, you
cannot redirect your taxes from Planned Parenthood to Birthright; you
must ultimately contribute to *both* if you want to support
Birthright.

As someone said once, "It's not charity if it's someone else's money."


> Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
> gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
>
> ******   END OF FORWARDED MESSAGE   ******
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 10:31:26 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      LET'S LOVE AGAIN...I'LL STAY

Dear Christia,

You know I really appreciate my brothers and sisters in Christ. Jim Coen writes
about the "wheat and the tares".  I should know this backwards and forwards
because my dear husband, Gene,  took about 3 weeks to teach it to the adult
Sunday school this summer.  This is so right.  Thank you James also for the
encouraging words.  I'm on the right track now.  The Holy Spirit brings things
back to your remembrance, and I thank Him for using my fellow Christians.

This has made my day!!!!!PRAISE THE LORD - FOR YOU TRULY ARE WORTHY FOR ALL THE
GLORY AND HONOR.

Dear Heavenly Father,
I thank You for this opportunity to remain on Christia.  We have to sometimes
realize that there indeed will be wheat and tares.  Father have mercy
on all of us and create in us clean hearts and renew a right spirit within us.
We all have fallen short of Your glory.  We ask that 1993 will be like no
other year and that the body of Christ will go forward with boldness and power
of the Holy Spirit.  Let us be unified and let Jesus be glorified and lifted
up.  Father let us all be doers of Your Word and not just hearers only.
Let people see more of You and less of us.  In Jesus mighty Name we pray.
Amen and Amen.

May all of you have a blessed and prosperous New Year - and may the love of
Jesus shine ever so brightly to reach others for the kingdom.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--  Praise the Lord - I am!!!!!!!!
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Responsibility and final action
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:38:32 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Darren,  sorry, I couldn't find your e-mail address in my notebook.  Anyway,
yes, to me it did sound (read?) like you were saying Mr. K was not responsible
for various suicides.  I guess you simply mean he didn't commit murder.  Sorry
if what I wrote earlier was a flame (I am assuming you think that what I wrote
was a flame - but I know you didn't mention my name specifically in the flame
bit), it wasn't intended to be a flame - at least in my probably uninformed
idea of what a flame is.  At any rate, what I wrote to you in response earlier
shouldn't be read as showing ill-will towards you as a person.  If you detected
any anger, please attribute it to an anger at those who would rather help other
folks kill themselves more efficiently.  I do believe though that Mr. K pro-
bably doesn't know what he is doing... ultimately.  I would much rather see
someone give their lives to let others live (in service) than watch those who
would rather live to encourage and aid others to throw away the gift of bio-
logical life they have been given.  Rather than argue (or discuss in a friendly
way) whether Mr. K is legally at fault in the deaths of others, and if so, in
what way, I think it would be better to talk about how we can minister to
those who are in the situation where at times they might feel it is better to
take their own lives than to suffer.  And how can we take the Good News to
folks like Mr. K?

Well, Darren (and anyone else who has bothered to read this) I hope you have
a happy chanakah and a Merry Christmas.  All praise to the Word enfleshed! (and
the Father and Spirit),  Peace, zane.
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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:08:10 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE:PRAYER REQUEST-HUMPHREY

Dear Humphrey,

We will be holding up Hong Kong and other countries which are in turmoil.
The Lord said in Phil. 4:6 Be careful for nothing, but in everything in
prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known
unto to God.  We have to have faith that the Lord is in control of this
situation.  God does not want you to be anxious over any circumstance.
We are going to pray and submit this request to God with thankful hearts
that He is going to answer and watch over Hong Kong.  I know of other
people who share the same concerns, some even have family still there.
We never thought the iron curtain would come down, but it did; let's
believe God for 1997 also.  Just think if we lift Hong Kong up in prayer
until then, we should see a great testimony to God's awesome power (Smile).

Dear Heavenly Father,

We come before You thanking and praising You for all Your many blessings you
have given us.  Father in 1997, Hong Kong will be turned over to China and
because there are many people who will not be able to leave we ask that you
watch over and protect them from any harm or danger.  We ask You Father that
You will also protect their possessions and jobs and businesses.  Father please
prevent anyone from being persecuted or mistreated in any way.  Let there be
a peaceful transition in Jesus mighty Name.  For all our brothers and sisters
there and here, please give them Your peace that passes all understanding,
and comfort them by Your precious Holy Spirit.  In Jesus Name we pray.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--

P.S.  Humphrey may you and your family have a blessed and prosperous New Year.
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:53:09 EST
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Lightening up/Christmas humor

We went shopping at the mall Saturday, and despite the hussle and bussle and
the crowd, we had a pretty good day (except for Sarah, she doesn't like crowds
or noise at all).

Thought you all might enjoy these two things we noticed while we were out:

In the window of a wig shop, a sign said "Ears pierced free, while you wait."
David said, what do you do if you don't want to wait?  Can you leave your
ears there and come back later?

A billboard next to the malls said, "Trying to find the * perfect * gift?  God
already gave him."

Have a good day!

Brenda
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:10:39 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: CS LEWIS - UNAUTHORDOX?

I haven't yet read "Mere Christianity", but based upon what you quoted from
the book, I would have to agree with you--this particular bit of theology
seems to be "in left field" to me.

coen@acc.wuacc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 09:35:33 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE:THE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS-LIZ

Dear Liz,

Thank you for the beautiful post.  This is truly something that we can use
and reflect on all year.  I copied it and plan to put it up in my office.
You and your family have a blessed Christmas and joyous New Year.

You sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:21:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Operation Pest.

I loved the article about the Operation Rescue rabble getting sung at when
they tried to disrupt a church service.  When, oh when will Christians
everywhere stand up and say that Terry and his reprobate organization don't
represent them!

I'm sure the people involved in this atrocity thought they were doing God's
work, but so did the Jews who Crucified Jesus.  They need to be
re-educated, right away.  There are enough reasons why the World can and
will beat up on Christians, we most certainly don't need to add to their
agendas by this kind of activity.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:07:27 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prayer request

Keith,
    God bless you and your family during this time of sorrow.
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:09:13 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Sylvester of Rome (30 Dec 335)

SYLVESTER OF ROME (30 DEC 335) (transferred to Thurs 31 Dec)

Sylvester (or Silvester) was Bishop of Rome from 314 to 335 -- that
is, from just after the Emperor Constantine's Edict legalizing
Christianity to just before the death of Constantine. He was
represented by delegates at the regional Council of Arles in 314
(called in an attempt to heal the Donatist schism) and at the
ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 (called to decide the Arian
question). Constantine gave him the Lateran Palace, which became his
cathedral. Little else is known of him. There are later stories of
his dealings with Constantine, but these are totally unhistorical.
We remember him chiefly as a representative of Christian leaders
faced with the problem of how the Church ought to relate to a
surrounding society at least superficially friendly to it.

PRAYER (traditional language)
   O God, our Heavenly Father, who didst raise up thy faithful
   servant Sylvester to be a bishop and pastor in thy Church and
   to feed thy flock: Give abundantly to all pastors the gifts of
   thy Holy Spirit, that they may minister in thy household as
   true servants of Christ and stewards of thy divine mysteries;
   through the same Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth
   with thee and the same Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.

PRAYER (contemporary language)
   O God, our Heavenly Father, who raised up your faithful servant
   Sylvester to be a bishop and pastor in your Church and to feed
   your flock: Give abundantly to all pastors the gifts of your
   Holy Spirit, that they may minister in your household as true
   servants of Christ and stewards of your divine mysteries;
   through the same Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns
   with you and the same Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:08:35 EST
From:         Daniel Brabander <ST403077@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CS LEWIS - The 3-in-1 Godhead

A current description of the trinity that I find very comforting is:

Father = Creator
Son = Redemor
Spirit = Sustainor

All being equal yet different primary characteristics.
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:32:27 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Birthday
              30 Dec 1992 07:25:51 -0500 from <d246@UNI05.LARC.NASA.GOV>

On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:25:51 -0500 Braden Glen said:
>December 26th, 1992 at a few minutes before 11:00 am (10:57 to be exact!),
>Timothy Nathan Braden was born. 7lbs, 13 oz and 20 3/4 inches. Both Mother
>and Son are home, healthy and doing very well.

Congratulations to you Glen (and Bernadette)!!  What a wonderful gift...
I Praise God for this news.

In His Love,
Madge
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Subject: Babies & stuff (was: Re: Operation Pest)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:57:00 GMT
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Thanks everyone for your encouragement -- I'm looking forward to March (when
the baby is due) more and more! (I thought a subject title change might be
good since there seems to be two threads under the same heading...)

>Russ, ENJOY! Im excited for you! Please report regularly. We will be
>praying. Will ya'll want to know sex from the sonogram?

Well, Shellie just had a doctor's visit, and the pregnancy that was "high
risk" starting out is now a "textbook example" of how one should go!
As for finding out the sex of the baby, we want to be surprised, but it's
gonna be tough to watch the sonogram and not want to find out...

Take care everyone...

Russ Neumeier
SSEC, UW-Madison
Madison, WI -- sixty-two square miles surrounded by reality
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Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:32:28 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      SETTING TO NO MAIL-SHELBY

Dear Christia,

Well I'm going to no mail.  I will not be back until 1/5/92.  Praise
the Lord.  I do get a little time off (Smile).  Have a blessed and
prosperous New Year everyone In Jesus Name.  I'll see you all next
year.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Christian nation
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:53:05 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Dan,  There is a Christian nation, but it aint America, the U.S. or any other
country of this world.  Just a third race of Christoferens.

Surely, many would dispute your assertion that there can't be Muslim, Buddhist,

or "Christian" nations.  It is semantics in a way isn't it?  There can't be
Christian toilet paper.

                             Peace, zane.
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Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:48:40 MDT
From:         Fred Fowler <frefow@FREFOW.AUTO-TROL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Operation Rescue, Meet ACT UP...
              it multiplies." at Dec 18, 92 6:39 pm

    An interesting worship service.  This church is apparently one of
    those worldly, apostatizing, "mainstream" churches that the press
    is so fond of these days.

                                           Fred Fowler
                                           frefow@auto-trol.com
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