HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hjiwa@gruc19.nor.chevron.com (Jeff Wang)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:45:40 GMT
Organization: Chevron Petroleum Technology Company

bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan) writes:
|> Actually, in the example above, I would probably use sed to insert the
|> blanks.  I also use awk for some of the tasks I used to use an editor
|> for (when I was a DOS person). Of all the editors I've used in my life, vi
|> is neither the best nor the worst.

Ahhh...but which editor do you prefer to use for your day-to-day editing???
I also find vi neither the best or worst BY ITSELF, but it's all those other
Unix and C programs which can filter the text that make vi so wonderfully
adaptable.  At work, I do most editing with vi on a Unix workstation here,
but also use SPF Edit on our MVS system daily also.  At home, I use
WordPerfect on my PC.  But if I had to be restricted to only 1 editor for all
three systems, I'd pick vi because it is so adaptable, comes on every Unix
box, and I prefer Unix/X-windows over VMS, MVS, MS Windows, Macs, OS/2...
Learning a portable editor is also advantageous these days (instead of
growing accustomed to using vile, stevie, joe, moe, larry, and curly ;^) )
with so many companies in the midst of reorganization-mania, if you know what
I mean.  I do miss the column-limited operations offered by Xedit and SPF
Edit even though I can filter my text through C programs to mimic the
exclude, overlay, and removing and filling columns with spaces or characters
in vi.  Gee..this is starting to sound like the "Why I like vi" thread again.

-- 
 #====}==) #===(==}  #====}==) #===(==}  {==)===# (=={====#  {==)===# (=={====#
>> Jeff Wang                             Net   : hjiwa@gruc19.nor.chevron.com <<
>> Chevron Petroleum Technology Company  Profs : hjiwa (hovmb)                <<
>> Geophysical/Geological Applications   Phone : (504) 592-6162               <<
>> 935 Gravier Street, Room 1006         Fax   : (504) 592-6958               <<
>> New Orleans, Louisiana 70112          Valeo,vales. Die dulci fruimini!! :) <<
 #====}==) #===(==}  #====}==) #===(==}  {==)===# (=={====#  {==)===# (=={====#
From: ralp@db.erau.edu (Ralph E. Bugg)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: How can I resize Elvis in a xterm window?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 11:56:38 -0500
Organization: Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, FL USA
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: lambda.db.erau.edu

hansm@cs.kun.nl (Hans Mulder) writes:
>In <ellis.721949068@nova> ellis@nova.gmi.edu (Stew Ellis) writes:
>>One of the first tests I perform on an editor before I install it in the the
>>/usr/local/bin/ directory of our Sun is whether it behaves properly when an
>>X term is resized.  Jove, joe and emacs do.  I have not tried any vi
>>variants.  It is a matter of testing for the signal TCGETWINSIZE (sp?).
>It's spelled SIGWINCH.
>I have tested vi variants.  The one that comes with SunOS 4.0.x does react
>to SIGWINCH; the one that comes with 4.1.x doesn't.  Weird, but true.
>Sun's explanation is that the "new" version of vi (since when does SVR3.1
>count as "new" ???) is 8-bit clean and the other one isn't.  And who would
>run X windows on a Sun anyway :-?
Hey I do... and I like it alot more than OpenWindows...do to our machines
having low memory OpenWindow takes up alot of time to load up. And if you
want to run anything that is CPU intensive, well I should hafta tell you
how much time and effort it takes...gee if you love OpenWindows so much
then just use the texteditor that comes with it...

>--
>Hope this helps,
>Hans Mulder				hansm@cs.kun.nl

BTW... I myself have never gotten vi on 4.1.x to work resizing either...
but then I don't have a need to resize my windows...


ralp@db.erau.edu
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
|You can get more of what you want with a kind    |   ralp@db.erau.edu     |
|word and a gun than you can with just a kind word|ralp%invalid@db.erau.edu|
+-------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
From: mmaster@parnasus.dell.com (Michael Masterson)
Subject: Re: Comments on Brief ( and Crisp )
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:13:09 GMT

rohit@NeoSoft.com (Rohit Mehrotra) writes:

>Fact: Yep, CRISP is fairly expensive. 

>BRIEF, before this temporary Borland promotion, was always sold at a price 
>greater than $200.00. It is a fact that BRIEF has sold more in numbers than

Every time I've ever seen a price on it in a catalog, it was about
$159, list $199.
-- 
Operated by professionals, do not try at home, see your dealer for details.
Your mileage may vary. Call before digging. Best if eaten by date on package.
Apply only to affected area. Batteries not included. Member FDIC.
Michael Masterson                                   mmaster@parnasus.dell.com
From: okes@essex.ac.uk (Simon Oke)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Date: 16 Nov 92 13:11:21 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Essex, UK.
In-reply-to: sverre@rc.nokia.fi's message of 16 Nov 92 06:59:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.065935.27173@rc.nokia.fi> sverre@rc.nokia.fi (Sverre Slotte Jr.) writes:
| Please enlighten me, dear net-friends. Is there an editor that groks
| blocks like the one below?
|
| ***************.-------------------+**************************
| ****************\******************|********************************
| *****************\*****************|****************************
| ******************\**********.-----+***********************
| *******************\**********\*******************************
| ********************`-----+****\**************************************
| **************************|*****\**************************
| **************************|******|**************************
| **************************+------+****************************
|
Yes. It consists of pencil, paper and a pair of scissors.

--
This signature is copyright 12/6/1992 Simon Oke. All rights reserved. If you
like it and keep a copy for your own use, you owe me $20. Please pass it on
to your friends with all documentation.              Email okes@essex.ac.uk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"God I hate floppies" - Karl Brandt.
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.221338.42264@datamark.co.nz> david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland) writes:
>
>I agree. I though vi was used for editing programs and text files.  If
>any one is looking for something which allows selecting rectangle
>blocks and columns, shouldn't they be using a word processor or a
>spread sheet???  
>

Back in the days when I mostly worked with MSDOS and had a good editor
that handled rectangular blocks easily, I used to use it to prepare data
so I COULD read it into a spreadsheet or word processor.  For instance, if
I have a file  of formatted data:

123456789
987654321

I can use my editor to insert a column of blanks in front of each field so
it can be read into a spreadsheet program:

12 34 56 78 9
98 76 54 32 1

Or if I have some ugly SPSS CROSSTAB output, where cells are separated by
dashes, plus signs and vertical bars:

   1 | 23 |
-----+----+
     |    |
   3 | 45 +
-----+----+

I can get rid of those  vertical bar columns in a jiffy with a good
editor, so that I can do the rest of the job of making a nice document in
WordPerfect. 

I also found this feature useful when writing programs.  Let's say I have
a section of code I decide to make conditional, so I want to indent it to
make an "if.. then.." block.  I just insert a column of blanks in front of
that section of code.

There are other ways of doing all these things, but if you've ever used an
editor that handles column blocks easily and quickly, believe me, you'll
find lots of uses for the feature.  Kedit recognized column blocks, line
blocks and "sentence blocks", and once blocked, you could copy, move,
delete, or fill with a character.

Barbara Vaughan
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland)
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:13:38 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Nov16.065935.27173@rc.nokia.fi> sverre@rc.nokia.fi (Sverre Slotte Jr.) writes:
>In article Larry W. Virden (lvirden@cas.org) writes:
>>b) vi does indeed not EASILY permit "arbitrary blocks of text".  For instance,
>>there is no single simple _vi_ command to allow one to take text such as:
>>
>>
>>Time		Cost		Purpose
>>
>>4 mins	$2.50		Cycles of processing
>>2.5 mins	$1.75		Pages of print
>
>Does any editor allow the user to manipulate truly arbitrary blocks of
>text? Vi prefers whole lines of text, some editors permit rectangular
>blocks of text, but I have yet to see one that enables me to work with
>arbitrary blocks.
>

I agree. I though vi was used for editing programs and text files.  If
any one is looking for something which allows selecting rectangle
blocks and columns, shouldn't they be using a word processor or a
spread sheet???  

-- 
| David Rowland       | The British are using New Zealanders.  They must |
| Datamark Intl Ltd   | really mean business !                           |
| Wellington          |      -  General Rommel During Northern African   |
| NEW ZEALAND         |         Campaign WWII.                           |
From: gowen@jade.tufts.edu (G. Lee Owen)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Qu, SimpLEST editor?
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:39:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA


	
	I have inherited an Intel 310, bearing an 80286 chip but
running Microsoft (not sco) Xenix, dating back to 1984-85 or so.  It's
a balky system, it doesn't work great, but I want to play with it to
learn more about systems.
	The problem is that the only editor it has is VI.  No offense
to VI users, I just prefer not too -- too much Emacs training.  I
would like to find an editor which is vanilla as heck and will compile
on an old, old C compiler.  Can anyone here recommend one?  I did try
joe, and jove, and neither made it past the compiler.  Both gave me
error messages which I was unable to fix.
	Thanks in advance for any help -- email reply is fine unless
you feel this is of general interest.
	
	
--
--Greg Owen
	gowen@forte.cs.tufts.edu, gowen@jade.tufts.edu
"C Spot. C Spot run. C Spot run without a core dump! Run, Spot, Run!"
From: ci229@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andrew Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Need help compiling MicroEmacs
Date: 18 Nov 1992 14:27:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: ci229@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andrew Miller)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Greetings,

I've recently FTP'd a copy of Microemacs 3.8 and I'm having trouble compiling
it.  When I run the makefile, I get the following fatal error:

"display.c", line 775: lchaX undefined                            
"display.c", line 775: syntax error at or near variable name "n"  
*** Error code 1                                                  
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `display.o'          

Does anyone know why this won't work?  Does anyone know how I can contact
the authors, Daniel M. Lawrence and Dave G. Conroy?

                         Any information would be greatly appreciated,

                         Andrew

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Miller               amiller@tasc.com
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: creider@taptet.sscl.uwo.ca (Chet A. Creider)
Subject: history of ed, ex, vi
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Distribution: comp.editors
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:52:07 GMT

Can anyone tell me a little of the history of ex?  I would like to know
if it was developed simultaneously with vi (for use with the hard copy
terminals which were still common then) or if it preceded vi, and I would
also like to know if ed played any role in its development.  Are there
editing tasks which one can do in ed that one can't do in ex, or vice versa.
Is the regular expression code in ed also used in ex?

With thanks,

Chet Creider
creider@csd.uwo.ca or
creider@taptet.sscl.uwo.ca
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: soh@tmp_ip_003.trl.OZ.AU (Soh Kam Hung)
Subject: Re: VI??? GROSS!
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:14:27 GMT

buboo@alf.uib.no (Ove Ruben R Olsen) writes:

>Beware the ignorance of the Lambs :-)

Baa baa to you, Ove!  What does the ``ignorance of the lambs'' mean?
I don't know whether to be amused or mortified.  P-)

>Many of these tutorials are EXSTREMLY good. Do not make asumptions 
>about something that you may or may not know 100 %.

Ick!  I haven't been keeping up with the comp.editors index of vi
related files.  After having a look, I found more tutorials on vi,
including a course for teaching it!

>Those with a PC background should use JOE, pico or something else
>untill they hit the ceiling and ask: "Why can't I...", then you show
>them the strength of VI.

I usually start by showing those users utilities such as tr, sed or
awk, since they tend to encounter batch processing problems.  Then, I
mention vi or emacs and give them some tutorial documents.

Regards,

Soh Kam Hung, Network Management Research,     | h.soh@trl.oz.au  
TRL, POB 249 Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia | +61 3 253 6638
From: rfs@se28.wg2.waii.com (Robert Starr)
Newsgroups: comp.editors
Subject: Re: Anyone use SAM?
Keywords: sam, ai
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:13:28 GMT
Reply-To: starr@wg2.waii.com
Organization: Western Geophysical

In article <1992Nov22.194309.17333@prl.dec.com>, boyd@prl.dec.com (Boyd Roberts) writes:
|> 
|> Sam does brace matching with a double click on button 1:
|> 
|>      Button 1 changes selection.  Pointing to a non-current window with but-
|>      ton 1 makes it current; within the current window, button 1 selects
|>      text, thus setting dot.  Double-clicking selects text to the boundaries
|>      of words, lines, quoted strings or bracketed strings, depending on the
|>      text at the click.

Thanks.

|> 
|> It lets your left hand do auto indent.  Just how hard is it to type tab?

And just how hard is it to do autoindent?  If I remember right, you can even
get this feature on regular typewriters.

I don't want Emacs, but ai seems so very fundamental.  Of course, Emacs
fans think a fundamental editor requires everything else ever invented
as well :-).

|> Boyd Roberts			boyd@prl.dec.com

-- 
| Bob Starr (starr@wg2.waii.com) | Western Geophysical | Opinions R mine! |
| ===> Perling down the interstate on my Harley.......................... |
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: ellis@nova.gmi.edu (Stew Ellis)
Subject: Re: How can I resize Elvis in a xterm window?
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:24:28 GMT

bgitv@termo.unit.no (Baard Grimsmo) writes:

>In article <1992Oct23.145352.6439@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
>>In <1992Oct21.131950.16914@ugle.unit.no> bgitv@termo.unit.no (Baard Grimsmo) writes:
>>
>>:Is it possible to make Elvis(-1.6) resizing itself into the new window
>>:when the xterm is resized by pulling its corner with the mouse?
>>
>>:After resizing the window my Elvis does not know the available number
>>:of lines, and I have to quit Elvis and restart after I have increased/
>>:decreased the number of lines.
>>
>>Generally you need to have something which does:
>>	eval `/usr/bin/X11/resize`
>>
>>This should set your TERMCAP, LINES, and COLUMNS environment
>>variables appropriately for the current size of the xterm
>>window.  This must be done BEFORE starting elvis since it
>>probably isn't aware of the X environment.
>>
>>:My vi-editor automatically changes and "fills" the new window size.
>>
>>Bill
>>-- 
>This is actually only an answere to half of my question.

>Using "resize" only helps if it is used before Elvis is started.

>My problem is to make Elvis resize inside a xterm window if the window is
>stretched or shrinked using the mouse after Elvis is started.
>Is it possible or not? My standard vi editor on my SGI-Indigo does!

>Thanks for the help anyway.
>Bard.Grimsmo@termo.unit.no

One of the first tests I perform on an editor before I install it in the the
/usr/local/bin/ directory of our Sun is whether it behaves properly when an
X term is resized.  Jove, joe and emacs do.  I have not tried any vi
variants.  It is a matter of testing for the signal TCGETWINSIZE (sp?).


--
--                                                        ___________________
  R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765  /   _____  ______ 
  Humanities & Social Science,  GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst.   /        / /  /  / /
  Flint, MI 48504      ellis@nova.gmi.edu              /________/ /  /  / /
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke)
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:54:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.221338.42264@datamark.co.nz> david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland) writes:
[...]
>
>I agree. I though vi was used for editing programs and text files.  If
>any one is looking for something which allows selecting rectangle
>blocks and columns, shouldn't they be using a word processor or a
>spread sheet???  
>

No.

-- 
Michael Lemke
Astronomy, UT Austin, Texas
(michael@io.as.utexas.edu or UTSPAN::UTADNX::IO::MICHAEL [SPAN])
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Arbitrary text blocks (Was: VI??? GROSS!)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:34:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.005252@gruc19.nor.chevron.com> hjiwa@gruc19.nor.chevron.com (Jeff Wang) writes:
>bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan) writes:
>|> 
>|> 123456789
>|> 987654321
>|> 
>|> I can use my editor to insert a column of blanks in front of each field so
>|> it can be read into a spreadsheet program:
>|> 
>|> 12 34 56 78 9
>|> 98 76 54 32 1
>
>You could use :%s\(..\)\(..\)\(..\)\(..\)\(.\)/\1 \2 \3 \4 \5/
>to do that.
>
This thread has come full circle.  Here is my summary so far:
A. says "vi can't handle rectangular blocks"
B. says "yes it can; here is the arcane code to do what you want to do."
C. says "That's so arcane; a good editor would do it much more transparently"
D. says "Well, if you really want to do stuff like that, use a spreadsheet
         or word processor; vi is an editor"
E. I post three examples of tasks that are not suited to a spreadsheet or
         wordprocessor but where easy handling of rectangular blocks would
         be useful.  I didn't say vi couldn't do these things.  I just
         wanted to illustrate that these are not tasks that are suited for
         spreadsheets or word processors.     
F., G., H., ... all post some arcane vi code or suggest using Basic (!!!) to
         perform these tasks.

Actually, in the example above, I would probably use sed to insert the
blanks.  I also use awk for some of the tasks I used to use an editor
for (when I was a DOS person). Of all the editors I've used in my life, vi
is neither the best nor the worst.

Barbara Vaughan
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu ("John E. Davis")
Subject: rot13.sl for JED
Reply-To: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu  (John E. Davis)
Organization: "Dept. of Physics, The Ohio State University"
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:57:02 GMT

Hi,

   Here is a rot13.sl file for encrypting/decrypting text via rotating chars
a-z by 13.  To use it, cut it out, call it rot13.sl and put it in JED_LIBRARY.
Then put the following line in your .jedrc or site.sl:

"rot13.sl" evalfile

Then in JED set the mark and move the Point to define a region.  Then enter
^[X (escape X) or whatever you have `evaluate_cmd' bound to and type: rot13
at the JED> prompt, i.e.,

Escape-X

JED> rot13

Or, instead of always loading it, even when you do not need it, simply do:

Escape-X

JED> "rot13.sl" evalfile rot13

This loads it then evaluates the function which rotates the region.

In a later release of JED, I will add autoloading so that something like:

"rot13" "rot13.sl" autoload

but that is later.

Here is the file.  Enjoy.

;;
;;  rot13.sl
;;
( [ch delta] =ch
  0 =delta
  ;; M is 77
  ;; A is 65, Z is 90
  
  ch 90 > { 32 =delta ch 32 - =ch} if
  
  {ch 65 <}{ch 90 >} orelse {1 right pop return} if
  
  
  ch 77 > {ch 13 - =ch}{ ch 13 + =ch} else
  del 
  ch delta + char insert
) do_rot13

( 
  [n r1 c1 c2]
  markp { "Set mark!" error } !if
  
  push_spot
  
  what_column =c2
  whatline "exchange" call whatline =r1
  r1 - =n  ;number of lines - 1
  what_column =c1
  
  {n 0 ==} {c1 c2 ==} andelse {"bad region!" error} if
  
  n 0 < { n chs =n 
          r1 n - =r1
	  c1 c2 =c1 =c2
	} if

  n 0 == { c1 c2 > { c1 c2 =c1 =c2  "hmm" message } if } if
  
  r1 goto_line c1 goto_column
 
  n { 
       eolp 0 == 
         {  pop
	    what_char do_rot13
	    eolp {0}{1} else
	 } while
       1 down pop bol
    } loop
    
  ;; take care of final line
    
   what_column c2 < 
     { pop 
       what_char do_rot13
       what_column c2 <
     } while
     
  pop_spot
) rot13


  

--
     _____________
#___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________
#
# internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu
#   bitnet: davis@ohstpy
#   office: 617-735-6746
#
Newsgroups: comp.editors
From: dattier@orac.holonet.net (DWT)
Subject: Re: VI - finding lines longer than 80 characters
Organization: Information Access Technologies, Inc. of Berkeley, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:15:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.005343.807@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
keithv@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Keith Vetter) asked:

>In VI, is there an easy way to find all lines whose length
>is greater than 80 characters?  I realize tabs are a problem but
>let's assume that there are no tabs.

"Easy" is such a subjective term.  I make do with this two-fork hack: a
restaurant critic would give it fewer.

:w !cut -c81- | grep -n .

(where the period is a regexp for "any character except newline" and not end
punctuation), though even eighty characters (because an eighty-character line
on an eighty-column screen causes a cursor jump and an empty screen line) are
too many for my purposes and I usually use "79" in that formula rather than
"81".

It's ugly, but it beats the hell out of typing eighty-one periods in a search
pattern.

David W. Tamkin   P. O. Box 59297   Northtown Station, Illinois  60659-0297
dattier@{holonet.net|gagme.chi.il.us}  CIS: 73720,1570   MCI Mail: 426-1818