HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tagg@hg.uleth.ca (Nathaniel Tagg)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: The Difference Engine (spoilers)
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:02:56 GMT
Reply-To: tagg@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge

In article <1992Jul23.131057.29971@linus.mitre.org>, ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.172109.18300@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pearlman) writes:
>>In article <20JUL199222275714@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov> olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson) writes:
>>>       "Their adventure begins with the discovery of a box of punched Engine
>>>       cards of unknown orgin and purpose.
>
>>The cards shorted out the Napoleanic engine.  The cards are a computer virus.
>>Probably the first one.
>
>    Actually, my impression was that the cards contained a
>instantation of a Go"del paradox for the Engine - a program it cannot
>run due to it's use of inconsistancies embodied in the machine's
>system of mathematics. (Go"del showed that no complete system of
>mathematics is self-consistant).
>
>     Try reading Hofsteder's "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden
>Braid", then reread TDE. I strongly suspect that one or both of the
>authors was familiar with GEB-EGB. (It also helps explain the rise of
>sentience in the Engine at the end).
>
>						Peter Trei
>						ptrei@mitre.org

      Actually, it's both.  A fatal virus (one that can kill a computer
totally) is just a very complex set of information that is introduced to the
system, just like the record on the phonographs in GEB.  I never thought of it
that way, and the mechanical system does make the transition clear.  As you add
more dodads to protect against sympathetic resonance, you have to make the code
to destroy the machine more complex. Wow.

-------- Nat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Nathaniel Tagg               The U of Hell,  Lethbridge, AB
    "It's just a matter of putting one point seven one five three seven two
and two point two oh four six two eight together."     --The Doctor 
___The opinions expressed by the author of the preceding message are not 
nessesarily representative of the opinions of the author of the
preceding message.____
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: chuck@korova.uucp (Chuck You, Dude)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: c_punk movies
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:14:31 GMT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind

system@korova.uucp (razorback) writes:

> ron@zooid.guild.org (Secret Mud) writes:
> > It just hasn't got the style.  (And the plot runs off the rails at the end,
> > when it must have hit a writing deadline.)
> > 
> > Look at _The Moon is a Harsh [School] Mistress_, it's got a guy with an
> > implant arm, pal of an AI.  Weird marriages, people wearing Ziggy Stardust
> > body-gliter, etc.  But Cyberpunk?  Nope.
> 
> perhaps heinlein could be considered pre-cyberpunk style, he didnt have 
> the technological inspiration around then when he wrote it. many of 
> heinleins books were written as social commentary...but i do think that 
> many of them could be considered cyberpunk, or at least pre-cyberpunk.
> 
> squid
> 
> --
>               VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
>         "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
>                 into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"

   True.  Heinlin wasn't trying to be cyberpunk, or even much of what you 
would call CP'ish.  He was a SF author who had a style that can be 
aprecciated from a CP viewpoint (if there is one) as an early reference, 
but the feel is just a little off.  As I said in my P about _Friday_, 
right world, wrong angle.
  /// & ///

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: myboy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Lewis Murtaugh)
Subject: Re: Other Books (Pat Cadigan)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:02:36 GMT

In article <3949@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> layne@pitt.edu (Deborah E Layne) writes:
>
>Does anyone else read Pat Cadigan?  She takes many of the themes
>of Neuromancer well beyond their limits (and with rock and roll).
>Books:  Mindplayers and Synners.  
>
>Comments?

I've read some of her short stories, and I've read _Synners_, which IMHO is
the best cyberpunk novel not written by William Gibson (forgive me for
fawning).  Her characters are three-dimensional, sympathetic, and believable. 
Her writing style is very crisp, and she manipulates the English language in a
way that reminds me of the cp cliche "the street finds its own uses for
things."

Also, the future she creates is at once realistic-seeming and interesting,
which is the exception in cp writing (Gibson's futures are generally
interesting but somewhat unbelievable, whereas other [e.g. Sterling's _Islands
in the Net_] are believable but boring).  She is very familiar, it seems, with
the state of "cyberspace" today (the Internet, etc.), and her extrapolations
on this are easy to grasp and realistic.

--
Charles Murtaugh
From: adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: c_punk movies
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:36:54 GMT
	<1992Jul22.173327.27467@honte.uleth.ca>
	<22JUL199220465906@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>
	<CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu>
	<ADRIAN.92Jul24111534@percy.robots.ox.ac.uk>
	<1992Jul27.21590
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Oxford University
In-reply-to: pol_in01@Oswego.EDU's message of 27 Jul 92 21:59:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.215909.7608@oswego.Oswego.EDU> pol_in01@Oswego.EDU (Brandon Hockle) writes:
   In article <ADRIAN.92Jul24111534@percy.robots.ox.ac.uk> adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox) writes:
   >In article <CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu> cckrasic@plg.waterloo.edu (Charlie Krasic (Buck)) writes:

   Adrian I would definately have to label it cyberpunk. Violence is only one
   apect of the cyberpunk genre. I think the KEY with a capital K to the post  
   modern or cyberpunk scene is the value of the image or symbol over the real
   or Meat things that we find in our world. The movie U.E.W. was definately
   cyberpunk in that the most important scenes in the movie involved people
   becomming addicted to the images of their own dreams. More real than real
   in that those dreams were veiwed again and again.

Once again the definition of cp problem rears up.  My reason for not
labelling _Until the End of the World_ cp is that it's mostly the
mirrorshades-cyberware-drugs fans who worry about labelling, and it
certainly doesn't match their version of cp.  If, however, you come at
it from the post-modern end of cp, it is cp.  But classification isn't
often considered a worthwhile subject of argument there; labelling
wars are rare in _Science Fiction Eye_.

To avoid being consistent, I will put on my post-modern hat and say,
"yes, it was cyberpunk."  Then, I put on my kill-crazed-street-punk
hat and say, "NO WAY MAN!  TOO DULL!  NO GOOD FIGHT SCENES!"  Then
I'll put on my pretentious-film-critic hat and say, "a breath of fresh
air after the cordite stench of _Terminator 2_."

- Adrian

Warning: the author of the above message is happy, well adjusted, and
attempting to be cynical.  He is not, nor has he ever been, an
anthropomorphic animal, though he has, on occasion, been a small dog
or penguin.  He does not use smilies.  Thank you for your cooperation.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: M Maxwell
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: c_punk movies
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:42:27 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu

In article <CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu> cckrasic@plg.waterloo.edu
(Charlie Krasic (Buck)) writes:
>
>Have many people here seen "Until the End of the World"?  It had William Hurt,
>Sam Neill and a bunch of others.  _Excellent_ movie--great acting, great plot,
>some excellent graphics, and an awsome soundtrack.  In fact, I think it
>deserves to replace Bladerunner as holding the designation of `the cyberpunk
>movie'.   If not, it at least deserves mention in the CP FAQ...
>
(double .sig deleted)

"Blade Runner" is still the cyberpunk movie (if there really is one).
BR has all the visuals and twice the high-tech lowlife that UEW could
muster, and comes far closer to capturing the feeling of most cyberpunk
(okay, Gibson and Shirley) than UEW.  Don't get me wrong, UEW is a great
film, but it isn't "the cpunk film" (though it does deserve a mention in 
the FAQ at least [you listening oh, keeper of the FAQ?]).

The closest that UEW comes, (to cpunk grand champion) i think are the 
sequences with the computer searches (incl. the Russian Bear "Still 
looking!") and the pieces that we saw with Tokyo (the Pachinko parlors 
and coffin hotel rooms).  Though overall there is an atmosphere of alienation
and anxiety that really hits hard. 

-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

Hey you kids!  Don't touch that, it's ART!
From: system@korova.uucp (razorback)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: c_punk movies
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 10:21:34 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind

ron@zooid.guild.org (Secret Mud) writes:
> It just hasn't got the style.  (And the plot runs off the rails at the end,
> when it must have hit a writing deadline.)
> 
> Look at _The Moon is a Harsh [School] Mistress_, it's got a guy with an
> implant arm, pal of an AI.  Weird marriages, people wearing Ziggy Stardust
> body-gliter, etc.  But Cyberpunk?  Nope.

perhaps heinlein could be considered pre-cyberpunk style, he didnt have 
the technological inspiration around then when he wrote it. many of 
heinleins books were written as social commentary...but i do think that 
many of them could be considered cyberpunk, or at least pre-cyberpunk.

squid

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: kitchel@moray.dpsi.com (Sidney W. Kitchel)
Subject: Re: YABB - DIFFERENCE ENGINE - Spoiler
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:28:19 GMT

jaguar@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) writes:

>JR> Also, strictly speaking, shouldn't this have been called the _Analytical
>JR> Engine_?  After all, *that* device (never completed) was to be the
>JR> forerunner
>JR> of the modern computer, NOT the Difference Engine, which was a mere
>JR> calculator.

	Let's be a little clearer. Are you claiming that Charles
Babbage could see into the future or that he was a time traveler??
How could he plan a "forerunner"???? The Difference Engine was not a
mere calculator. It was specifically a mechanical device capable of
being commanded to execute calculus of differences computations and
print the results automatically. Its purpose was to create totally
accurate astronomical and navigational tables.

>JR> Babbage had plans for the Analytical Engine to have a "CPU", memory,
>JR> storage,
>JR> etc, and this more like the stuff in the novel.

	It would be, if that is what Babbage did. But once again, he did
not know what electo-mechanical and electronic computers were going
to become in the 20th century. The Analytical Engine had registers, an
arithmetic "mill" and was commanded via Jacquard Loom-style cards.
There was no real memory or stored programs. There was no "CPU".
It was 100% mechanical. It was slow and prone to lock up because of 
the great number of gears.

>You know, this man is right on the money... 

	Mebbbbe not!

>--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)
                          ^^^^^
			Oh, I see now!
						--Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel  	    kitchel@cs.indiana.edu, kitchel@dpsi.com
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive	                      (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA		FAX:  (812) 334-8121
From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Until the End of the World (possible spoilers)
Date: 23 Jul 1992 13:29:04 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: boogie.cs.utexas.edu

In article <CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu>
cckrasic@plg.waterloo.edu (Charlie Krasic (Buck)) writes:

>Have many people here seen "Until the End of the World"?  It had William Hurt,
>Sam Neill and a bunch of others.  _Excellent_ movie--great acting, great plot,
>some excellent graphics, and an awsome soundtrack.  In fact, I think it
>deserves to replace Bladerunner as holding the designation of `the cyberpunk
>movie'.   If not, it at least deserves mention in the CP FAQ...

I liked this movie, but thought it had definite flaws.  It never would
have been made by Hollywood, because it is really two movies in one.
The first part is a comedy/action/road movie that had William Hurt
looking really out of place until it became a psychological/family/
drama, in which he could do what he does best: look complexly forlorn.
Now there are lots of great movies out there that Hollywood would
never have made, but Hollywood folks know a thing or two about making
movies; one of them is don't make movies whose plots have multiple
personality disorder.  It makes your audience confused or alienated or
both.

I also thought that the stuff about dream addiction was vastly
implausible, even within the context of the film.  And who *sees
themselves* in their dreams?  Or am I a self-centered anomaly?

Was it cyberpunk?  Depends on your definition.  The first part was
kinda punk, but not terribly cyber (except for the person-locating
programs -- I loved the russian bear), and the second part was pretty
cyber, but not terribly punk.



Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: riddle@is.rice.edu (Prentiss Riddle)
Subject: The Difference Engine vs. The Analytical Engine (SPOILER)
Summary: Was re: YABB - DIFFERENCE ENGINE - Spoiler
Organization: Ministry of Information, William's Marsh
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:54:25 GMT
X_fruit: Crazy Loquat

Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) writes:
> Also, strictly speaking, shouldn't this have been called the
> _Analytical Engine_?  After all, *that* device (never completed) was to
> be the forerunner of the modern computer, NOT the Difference Engine,
> which was a mere calculator.  Babbage had plans for the Analytical
> Engine to have a "CPU", memory, storage, etc, and this more like the
> stuff in the novel.

I thought of this, but then I heard one of the authors quoted to the
effect that the single "difference" in their alternate history was Lady
Byron's decision to put up with Lord Byron's sexual predilections, thus
averting his early death and leading to his entering politics and
becoming a patron of Babbage.  Could this "difference" have been behind
the use of the word in the title?

-- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") riddle@rice.edu
-- Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.
From: adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: c_punk movies
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:15:34 GMT
	<1992Jul22.173327.27467@honte.uleth.ca>
	<22JUL199220465906@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>
	<CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu>
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Oxford University
In-reply-to: cckrasic@plg.waterloo.edu's message of 23 Jul 92 15:21:20 GMT

In article <CCKRASIC.92Jul23112120@plg.waterloo.edu> cckrasic@plg.waterloo.edu (Charlie Krasic (Buck)) writes:


   Have many people here seen "Until the End of the World"?  It had William Hurt,
   Sam Neill and a bunch of others.  _Excellent_ movie--great acting, great plot,
   some excellent graphics, and an awsome soundtrack.  In fact, I think it
   deserves to replace Bladerunner as holding the designation of `the cyberpunk
   movie'.   If not, it at least deserves mention in the CP FAQ...

   Charlie Krasic                 \Programming Language Group

I really enjoyed _Until the End of the World_, though I wouldn't
instantly label it cyberpunk.  I tend to be a little cautious about
labelling things cyberpunk, though a lot of people label everything
they like as cp.  The whole tone of the movie was very different to
most cp movies: in particular, violence tends not to resolve anything
in _UEW_.  My gut reaction is that the movie is just too gentle to be
cyberpunk.

- Adrian
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: by341@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Peter Guscott)
Subject: Technophilia 93
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:54:42 GMT


Hello,

I am currently conducting research for the soon to be published 
book, Technophilia 93.  The topics covered in this book include:

* Virtual Reality
* The Computer Underground
* Artificial Intelligence/Robotics
* Nootropics
* Brain Machines and Mind Expansion
* Industrial and Cyberculture

Since Technophilia 93 is a resource guide, I'll need your assis-
tance in making it the most comprehensive and accurate handbook 
suited for thisrapidly emerging subculture.
Specifically, I am requesting:
* Groups and Clubs interested in the above
* Independent, academic, and professional researchers
* Underground and professional publications
* Independent producers of industrial/cyberculture media and 
  products (i.e., software, video and audio tapes, books, 
  t-shirts, etc.)
If you would like to include something in the book, or send 
comments, suggestions, or questions, please e-mail me at the 
below address.  Be sure to include all particulars that you 
think will allow readers of Technophilia 93 to understand your
services.  Also include e-mail, postal mail addresses, etc.
Thank you all for your time and assistance.  Be sure to look
out for Technophilia 93 at the end of the year.
Thanks again, 
John Patrick Guscott
by341@cleveland.freenet.edu
** I'll be reposting this announcement periodically
From: olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Does anyone remember...
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:10:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mission Operations and Data Systems
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul27.220929.3076@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, millere@frith.msu.edu writes...
>[stuff deleted] 
>The movie was definately a poor-man's "Collussus-The Forbin Project'(sp?)

Yea, the proper spelling is Colossus.

Dr. Forbin
From: ptsyck@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Tetsuo
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:43:01 GMT
Organization: Miami University, Hamilton campus

> Perhaps Tetsuo is actually so me type of sequal of Akira or something like
> that.
>
>
Excuse me but Tetsuo died in Akira. So how can there be a sequel???
If you would like to see if you can get some more infomation on the movie
Tetsuo post the orignal message in rec.art.anime. They should help you with
your question.
-- 
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Patrick T. Syck \   ptsyck@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu    //    EXCHANGE -TSA-   \\
Maimi University  \ Hamilton Campus                 \\     513/896-5882    //
 ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---  --- 
I Just Want To Be A Mecha Pilot!  If I Had Known It Was Going To Be This Much 
Work, I'd Have Gone To College.
				- Jack Baker
				  Robotech: The Sentinels
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Xref: sparky alt.graphics:307 alt.graphics.pixutils:1792 comp.graphics:8035
From: ahlvers@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Richelle Ahlvers)
Newsgroups: alt.graphics,alt.graphics.pixutils,comp.graphics
Subject: .tec to Macintosh graphics conversion needed
Date: 22 Jul 92 10:14:25 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

	I am looking for a way to convert files from .tec format (produced by
Techtronics (sp?) on a VAX running VMS. Sorry, I don't know much about this
package myself) for a professor who will need the files at a production 
quality level in some form of graphics file that I can convert to use 
on Macintosh.  I have the capability to convert between most DOS and Macintosh
graphics formats, so anything will be very helpful.  
	The systems I have available include VMS, DOS, OS/2, Macintosh, and
(NeXT -- mach) unix, so anything that can convert on any of these platforms
will be greatly appreciated.

	Thanks for your time.

Richelle Ahlvers

(Does the above make any sense at all?  :-) )
-- 
Richelle Ahlvers			Academic Systems for the
ASTUTE Center				Training and Use of 
Computing Services			Technology in Education
The University of Kansas	e-mail @:  ahlvers@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.graphics,alt.graphics.pixutils,comp.graphics
From: pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby)
Subject: Re: .tec to Macintosh graphics conversion needed
Organization: 3M Company
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:18:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.101425.41804@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> ahlvers@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Richelle Ahlvers) writes:
>	I am looking for a way to convert files from .tec format (produced by
>Techtronics (sp?) on a VAX running VMS. Sorry, I don't know much about this
>package myself) for a professor who will need the files at a production 
>quality level in some form of graphics file that I can convert to use 
>on Macintosh.  I have the capability to convert between most DOS and Macintosh
>graphics formats, so anything will be very helpful.  

On the Macintosh, Imagery 1.8 is a strong player in the graphics-format
conversion arena.  Get it at your local FTP site.

I just checked the list, and Jeff doesn't list anything called ".TEC" in
his available formats.  If you know more about the package producing the
graphics and can get it to produce TIFF or any of a number of other
formats, you may be in business with Imagery.

If nothing else, grab it from an FTP site just for the documentation--it
may give you an idea of what you need to do.


-- 
| Paul E. Jacoby, Consultant  | pejacoby@mmm.com      CIS:70404,2507 |
| David Mitchell & Associates |                                      |
| 3M Center, Bldg 235-3F-27   |--------------------------------------|
| Maplewood, MN   55144-1000  | (612) 737-3211 [w]      731-6392 [h] |
From: sngattan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Sanjay N Gattani)
Newsgroups: alt.graphics.pixutils
Subject: Image processing software?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:16:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


Hello:

Can someone send me information about the available image processing
softwares and how I can get them?  Thanks

			sanjay
			sngattan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 24 Jul 1992 19:28:27 CDT
From: <U37956@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.graphics.pixutils
Subject:  How can I create a .GIF file from raw data ?

My question is :


      I have a 100x100  gray-level one-byte image (0-255). The
image data is stored byte-by-byte sequentially in a file.
      How can I convert this image file into .GIF file ?
       ( I have no idea how .GIF files are created)]


Many thanks in advance for your help.