HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: taha@sanantonio.cs.tcu.edu (Iraqi_Godfather)
Subject: Beethoven Quartets by The Guarneri Quartet ?
Originator: taha@sanantonio
Organization: Texas Christian University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:37:36 GMT

Hello World !

I am thankful for all the info I got before about
Beethoven.

What do think about the Guarneri Quartet and their
recordings of LvB's Complete String Quartets ?
How are they:

1. Artistically (each of the "Early", "Middle", and "Late"
		 Quartets come in seperate CD packages) ?
2. Technically ?
3. How is the overall recording quality ?

Would you kindly be specific in your evaluations ? 

Thanx

E-mail:   taha@riogrande.cs.tcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Live recordings (was Re: Immortal opera recordings)
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 15 Aug 1992 19:58:44 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Alzira an underrated opera? Verdi wrote it while heavily medicated. Cornell
MacNeil once said that the only way to make sense of the score is to understand
that Verdi was stoned when he wrote it.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: clarinet book
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:21:07 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


"The Clarinet - Excellence and Artistry" by Rosario Mazzeo
Alfred Publ. Co. Inc.
ISBN 0-88284-133-5
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Reich
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:41:26 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Kevin Scott writes
> After hearing the Steve Reich ensemble piece "Eight Lines", I
> found it on a CD called "Minimalist" featuring works by Reich, 
> Glass, and Adams.
>  

Just Curious -- which pieces by Glass and Adams?

Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Orff: a few facts
In-reply-to: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU's message of Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:04:47 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Aug13.140447.24750@Princeton.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:08:58 CDT

Roger Lustig writes:

   >I've read somewhere 
   >that a lot of the controversy about Orff comes
   >from the fact that he did not disavow the politics of his time in
   >his country like many other contemporary artists and scientists did.

   Many?  Aside from those who were actually persecuted or banned by the
   regime, I wonder who those "many" were.

This is a difficult, often unanswerable, question.  As Arendt observed,
the only ones you can be sure didn't compromise are the ones who were
killed.  I've heard (somewhere--sorry) that Hindemith strongly resisted,
as well as defending Jewish musicians.  But it could be argued that he
was himself one of the persecuted since he was classified as "modern"
and so forth; so he wouldn't qualify in the terms of your question.
Thomas Mann took an anti-Nazi stance, possibly to compensate for his
embarassing cheerleading circa 1914.  I assume he would have been safe
otherwise, so maybe he qualifies.  But I can't remember if he left the
country.  In the books you (Roger) cite, is there an attempt to assess
many people's behavior during this era?  I'd be interested to hear any
striking findings revealed in them.

Chris Brewster
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Wanted: A crash course in composer's styles to guess who wrote a piece
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 05:48:02 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

I've had a year and a half of classical music theory, but one of the
things I was never able to pick up was how to tell the styles of
different classical composers -- Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, &c.
-- apart well enough to, upon hearing a classical piece on the radio,
intelligently guess who wrote it.  This isn't anything crucial, but it
would be great 'coffee-table' knowledge (that is, trivia ;).

Could anyone here suggest a run-down on some of the composers with
obvious stylistic 'trademarks' that would tend to appear in their work
more often than in other pieces?  I mean, when you hear a classical
piece and say 'that sounds like Brahms', what is it about the piece
that tips you off that Brahms wrote it (if you didn't already know)?

Just curious, and wanting to impress some people by making myself look
educated.  ;)

     << Brian >>
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: JOHN CAGE
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 14:41:48 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

It struck me recently that those who have been most nasty and rude 
towards John Cage's music (a lot of them have, of course, come out of the 
woodwork since his untimely death) ... are the people who need his music 
the most.
 
Al - Haus der Luge
 

;--- (Haus Der Luge) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
From: delatizk@bbn.com (Jonathan Delatizky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera Film Fantasy (OFF)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:26:07 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Let's see - 	Tony Randall as Wotan
		Bea Arthur as Fricka
		Cher as Brunnhilde
		Roseanne, Oprah, and Delta Burke as Rhinemaidens
		Molly Ringwald as Sieglinde
		Robin Williams as Siegmund
		Bill Murray as Hagen
		Dustin Hoffman as Gutrune
		Goldie Hawn as Erda

--
Jonathan Delatizky  *  Bolt Beranek & Newman  * If you mention Rimbaud in Bel
delatizky@bbn.com   *    10 Moulton Street    *  Air it is assumed you're
{...}!bbn!delatizky *   Cambridge MA 02138    *  talking about Sylvester
+1 617 873 3366     *  FAX: +1 617 873 2205   *  Stallone  -  Peter Mayle
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Reger's Song of the Hermit
Organization: pubs
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:50:59 CDT


In one of those situations of hearing to music without knowing its title
or composer, I heard Reger's Song of the Hermit (I was almost asleep so
I hope I have the info right).  I was interested to hear a full-blown
late-romantic orchestral song that I didn't already know (since there
aren't many such works), and was totally stumped as to its identity.  It
was good stuff!  The recording was Fischer-Dieskau sounding a bit old,
but good.  Anyone know this work?  Other recordings?

Chris Brewster
From: schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven - overvalued?
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:46:57 GMT
Organization: Princeton University Mathematics Department

In article <1992Aug7.094820.5439@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> gckchin@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Kelvyn Chin) writes:
>Bob Haskins says its -- 1) Bach 2)Brahms 3)Beethoven
>
>Heh... no way. If its 1)Bach 2)Beethoven 3)Brahms that I can buy. IMO, in
>terms of output, and/or influence, Brahms can't beat the other two B's.
>
>Of course, its my opinion. Ta!
>
>;-)
>kelvyn
>ps: Just found out about rec.music.classical. Its real fun being here!
>
 1) J.S. Bach
 2) W.A. Mozart
 3) L.v. Beethoven
 4) J. Brahms
 5) F. Mendelssohn
 6) A. Schoenberg
 7) G. Mahler
 8) H. Brian
 9) A. Berg
 10) A. v. Webern
 11) R. Sessions
Just my opinion, too.

schissel@math.cornell.edu
(present location)
schissel@mace.princeton.edu
(used to make post)
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Authentic performance/pitch.
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:09:04 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium


After listening a lot, lately, to John Eliot Gardiner's recording of the B-minor
Mass and Trevor Pinnock's Messiah, it occurred to me to see whether anybody else
has any opinions on the use of "authentic" pitch in authentic performance. I use
quotes because I'm not so sure why all the ensembles have arrived at this
particular pitch, pretty much exactly a semitone below modern concert pitch,
for Baroque performance. Is it that somebody's extrapolated back to the 1740's
the upward trend in frequency that has occurred since people have started making
numerical measurements of pitch, or has somebody unearthed a Baroque tuning 
fork? If so, who's too say it isn't out of tune? And is pitch really likely to
have been as standardised in those times as it supposedly is now for 
conventional performance?

Judging by the amount of discussion I've seen of this topic, I suppose that the
matter must seem pretty trivial to most, but it seems to me that there is a 
case for modern pitch on Baroque instruments, yet I'm not aware of any group
that practises it. The case would be that ever since the Well-Tempered Clavier
(and possibly before - I'm no historian) particular keys have built up 
particular associations for a great variety of composers and listeners, and
these 'key associations' seem to have remained the same, even if pitch has
steadily crept upwards. Thus the B-minor of Bach's Mass is very much the same
as that of Liszt's Sonata, the G-major of the Preludes and Fugues from the 48
is very much that of Beethoven's Sonata Op.31 No.1 and Dvorak's 8th Symphony,
as the E-flat of Beethoven's Eroica and Sibelius' 5th is a common image in
both. There must be many more examples.

The way things are with the authentic brigade, though, the B-minor Mass comes
out in B-flat minor, Bach's Double Concerto comes through as D-flat minor and
so on. I'm becoming pleasantly accustomed to the sound of authentic instruments,
but it seems to me the advantages of balance they produce could be retained
at the modern concert pitch which I have this feeling Bach and Handel would
have preferred had they lived through the change. Would anybody object if THIS
became common practice?

Any other fuss-pots out there?

Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Summary: Music & Philosophy
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:32:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.233314.21999@Princeton.EDU> roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <BtCt61.BA8@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>In article <c1JuPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:

>>>Music and philosophy are a bad mix.

>>Interesting...that's a philosophical statement itself!  Do you really think
>>that aesthetics is a worthless branch of philosophy?

>The sentence you sneer at has been taken out of context, of course;
>Kevin doesn't like music that itself embodies or attempts to advance
>some philosophy, as you damn well know, or would if you bothered to read
>instead of just kneejerking.

That wasn't how I read it, but even under your interpretation of the comment,
ANY piece of music must express SOME sort of philosophical idea because it
is a selective set of sounds.  Is it beautiful or ugly?  Is it complex or
simple?  Can one make sense out of it or not?  The artist must choose
what he is doing and there fore must at least implicitly reveal something
about his view of the world.  He may reveal this well or poorly, but it is
of necessity there.  Even making no choice of sounds (as Cage did) is a choice
and says something about what he thinks about the world.

>>If nothing else, a study of philosophy as it relates to art will explain
>>why it is that people have such radically different ideas of what art is
>>and what the difference between good art and bad art are.  

>"If nothing else" is wrong; most studies will *not* show that.  At best
>they will point up the contexts in which "good art" and "Bad art" can
>even have meaning.

OK, how can YOU explain why it is that our views are different?  Do you
think it's purely a case of stupidity on my part, or do you think
we disagree on some pretty fundamental philosophical points?  As I see it,
you are a pretty consistent exponent of a set of philosophical ideas 
quite different from my own, and those differences (rather than overt
stupidity or evil intent) are the source of our disagreement.

Not only can aesthetic theories explain what is/isn't art and what is/isn't
good art, but they can point to the fundamental differences in the reasons
for disagreements about these issues.  Just as an example, I suspect that
based on your aesthetic conclusions that reason unsullied by emotional
influences cannot ultimately justify any conclusions of value or morality,
right?  

--Brian

Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:11490 rec.music.folk:5738 rec.music.misc:21977 rec.music.dementia:1287
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk,rec.music.misc,rec.music.dementia
Subject: Re: musical coincidences [SUMMARY]
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:33:06 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" and Gentle Giants "Nothing At All" (off
their eponymously titled first album, which came out before Stairway).
-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. Mccomb)
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:30:35 GMT

In article <BtCExI.J1o@news.udel.edu> Jon Alan Conrad writes:
>I recall someone posting indignantly a couple months back, 
>"Let's have fewer *facts* in these discussions!"

Facts are boring.

T. M. McComb, ex-academic
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Live recordings (was Re: Immortal opera recordings)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:40:14 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Aug14.202101.12224@linus.mitre.org> rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer) writes:


>I recommend the Callas excerpt tapes of live performances.  So far
>I have heard Verdi Macbeth, Donizetti Poliuto, and Gluck Iphigenie en
>Tauride.  Here Callas gives thrills and musical delight in three
>varying styles.

The whole Macbeth is wonderful.  Callas is about the whole show, but
what a show it is.  She seems capable of absolutely anything here, and
way beyond any Lady M on commercial recordings.

>There is a vocally splendid tape of Milanov and Corelli singing
>Tosca at Covent Garden in 1957 (available on Legato Classics).

My own favorite live performance from recent times is an LP set I bought
on the LR label, of Tristan at Bayreuth, Carlos Kleiber conducting
Caterina Ligendza, Spas Wenkoff, and Yvonne Minton.

>I enjoy my CD of a live performance of Verdi's Alzira with Virginia
>Zeani.  The singing and recording are not great, but where else
>can you here this vastly underrated opera?

Well, you COULD hear it on the studio recording on the Orfeo label
(which picked up the "complete Verdi opera" series from Philips and
finished it).  But hearing Ileana Cotrubas in the lead (or indeed in any
role) may be worse than not hearing the opera at all; wrong, wrong,
wrong.

Is Alzira really "vastly underrated," though, Richard?  "Marginally"
underrated, maybe; Verdi called it "really ugly" and in fact it's kind
of fun in its lively, simple-minded way.  But I'd still place it pretty
near the bottom of the Verdi barrel (with Oberto and maybe one or two
more).

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Reply-To: chem91@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:30:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.225314.9339@dgbt.doc.ca>, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>Long live John Cage.
>
>-- 
>==========================================================================
>Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
> 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
>  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657

-----------------------

Hear, hear!! And long live the small, brave, [fill in your own superlative]
record companies who produce the discs of Cage's music and let us _decide
for ourselves_ was to his greatness. (Usual disclaimers).


+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Question of Cuts (was Re: Tristan & Isolde question)
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:57:39 GMT

In article <BsxGzL.5oI@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
 >In article <34206@cbmvax.commodore.com> givler@bermuda (Greg Givler) writes:
 >
 >>I have a question, on my recording of Faust, on Angel, with Christoff
 >>Gedda, and de Los Angeles, the only cut is the Spinning Song, I think
 >>it starts the Third Act. Anyway, they include the Ballet music but cut
 >>the Spinning Scene. I realize that this scene is commonly cut, but
 >>if you are producing a 4 disk recording in the first place, why not 
 >>include it. Is there a reason other than since it is normally not done
 >>that de Los Angeles may not have known the music?
 >
 > up through the 1950s and to some extent the 1960s, an opera
 >recording was in the literal sense a "record" of how it was done in the
 >opera house.  People were preserving the performances they actually gave
 >and were famous for.  Thus, the text of Faust here is the standard
 >international one: ballet in, spinning song out.


By the way, that scene also contains an good aria for Siebel.

That recording was based on the way the Paris Opera did Faust (which
was great, but made a very long evening in that splendid theater
with four intermissions).  I like the spinning scene, but certainly
did not miss it in those live performances.

Richard - rwilmer@gateway.mitre.org
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A quick guide to different musical periods...
Date: 15 Aug 1992 12:00:44 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

OK, while I agree with everyone who said that there is no substitute
for listening and studying for years, I have to admit to certain short-
cuts that I and other music history students have collated over the
years. Of course they're not foolproof, but they sure are a help on
a drop-the-needle test. Here are a sampling (some of the dates may
be somewhat off, it's been a while since my last class):

If it is a medieval motet in duple meter, it must be after the Ars Nova
(i.e. c.1300).
If a 3- or more part work ends in an open cadence (i.e. no third) then
it must be after c.1500.
If it begins with the famous French-overture dotted rhythm, then that
probably places it between about 1670 and 1760.
If it contains a clarino trumpet (i.e. rapid scalar passages) then it
must be the baroque.
If it contains a harpsichord or other continuo, then it's the baroque.
If it contains clarinets, it's probably after about 1770.
If it contains intensely imitative polyphony, then it probably isn't 
from the classical period (with certain well-known exceptions from
Mozart and Beethoven especially).
If the dance movement of a symphony is a minuet instead of a scherzo,
then it is probably before c. 1810 (again there are certain well-known
exceptions).
If it contains snare drum and cymbals, it's either after about 1830 or
it is intentionally imitating a Janissary band or military scene in
an opera and may go back to c.1780.
Any "unusual" percussion instruments (i.e. besides snare, cymbal, bass
drum, timpani, triangle) places it at least near the end of the 19th
century.
If the brass have valves (i.e. aren't just playing bugle-like lines),
then it is probably after about 1850.
Anything truly atonal is probably after 1910.

Of course one can also memorize the typical genres for a given period.
For example, a string quartet is probably not in the baroque, a piece
for percussion ensemble is likely from the 20th century.

Now you, too, can pretend to be an erudite classical music afficianado.

Bill Alves
From: delatizk@bbn.com (Jonathan Delatizky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Telefunken records
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:32:04 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Teldec used to be Telefunken;  Das Alte Werk was their early music label.

Originally independent (the company may have been owned by AEG for a while),
they picked up the Teldec moniker around ten years ago when they had a
distribution agreement with English Decca.  As far as I can remember, this
predates Decca's absorption into the Polygram group, and may therefore go a
little further back in time.  About 4 years ago the company was bought by
Warner brothers, together with Erato, as part of their push into the
classical music marketplace.

I'm almost certain that the Chapuis Bach cycle on Valois is the same one once
available on Telefunken, which had distribution rights to Astree/Valois
recordings outside France for a number of years.  The wondeful early-70s
recordings of the Beethoven quartets by the Vegh Quartet were likewise
available on Telefunken through the end of the 70s; I once picked up the box
of middle quartets as a cutout when Valois started wider distribution of
their own product.

--
Jonathan Delatizky  *  Bolt Beranek & Newman  * If you mention Rimbaud in Bel
delatizky@bbn.com   *    10 Moulton Street    *  Air it is assumed you're
{...}!bbn!delatizky *   Cambridge MA 02138    *  talking about Sylvester
+1 617 873 3366     *  FAX: +1 617 873 2205   *  Stallone  -  Peter Mayle
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Stephen {Bishop}{-}{Kovacevich}
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:34:35 GMT
	<Bt6yrw.81n.1@cs.cmu.edu> <1992Aug18.154202.1@gsbacd.uchicago.edu>
	<Bt8EFC.8I5@news.udel.edu>
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of 19 Aug 92 12:52:24 GMT

Jon Conrad writes:

   Or maybe he just wants to set people talking
   and thinking about him, to keep his career active.

Implying that his career is on the skids?  He does seem to be much less
visible than he was a while back.  Did people lose interest in him?  I
find his performances of, for example, Mozart concertos, excellent, so
I'm curious about his current reputation.

Chris Brewster