From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:12:29 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Dec17.193158.601@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>In article <11564@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>A couple possible proposals:
>>
>>Use of the terms inside/outside to refer to general movements with
>>respect to the body in question. 
>
>I'd rather not use 'inside/outside'... there was quite a lot of
>verbage here a while ago when people fumbled all over themselves
>trying to figure out if "an inside block" was a block moving
>from the outside TOWARDS the inside, or STARTING FROM the inside
>and moving to the *outside*... Can't we just use 'left and right'?
>>
>>Use of terms cross-handed or same-handed to indicate the spacial
>>relationship between the two opponents. I think this works especially
>>well, since it seems more relevent that using left and right, since
>>techniques should work on both sides!
 
The terms "cross-hand" and "same-hand" are used consistently in most Japanese
arts, but I'm not sure that's universally true for all arts. As Lauren has
noted, there's ample room for confusion. So, David, what do you Xing Yi folks
mean when you use the term "cross-handed"?

>Your use of 'cross-handed' and 'same-handed' in your "simple"
>example confused me... but then, not only am I light-headed
>from a head-cold at the moment, there are a few on the net
>who I'm sure would argue I'm just dim.
>
>>
>>Ex.
>>
>>Opponent throws a high punch with right hand. I counter with a
>>cross-handed block on the inside, 
>
>...  at this point, I honestly don't know whether 'cross-handed' means 
>     your left hand (the one "across" from his right), or maybe your
>     right hand (the one diagonally 'across'), or maybe you meant 
>     either your right hand or your left hand blocks by moving *across* 
>     his arm (as opposed to an upward or downward block, joint technique, 
>     etc.) ... but I don't know whether to the 'inside' or to the 'outside'...

Or even the infamous "X-block"!

>I find that left/right and clock-face directions work well. The 'Good
>Guy' is always assumed to be facing 12:00 (no, it's not military time!).
>
>And I'd suggest that we avoid all "buzz words" if at all possible (no
>"and then you apply an 'atemi wazi uke tensho dai yakuza whizbang' 
>followed by a 'tiger meets crane under the yellow ribbon on the old
>oak tree in the winter storm' stance" stuff.)

Absolutely, why should we use a compact, precise notational system when
we can waste bandwidth and storage on systems all over the world ;-).
In the case of Judo, there's a consistent naming system which allows one
to describe *really* complex gyrations in very little space. There are any
number of excellent reference works which can serve as "Judo glossaries".
Failing that, I'm sure that the net.Judoka would be elated to describe
ko-uchi gari in mind-numbing detail to anyone who asks (right, Wharfie?).
Anyone who is too lazy to ask probably doesn't have much to contribute
to the discussion anyway.

Karate presents a different problem - many terms (especially "inside"
and "outside") are used inconsistently between styles. Different
terms are used for parts of the body ("shotei" vs. "teisho" for "palm heel",
"enpi"/"empi" vs. "hiji" for elbow). Still, whoever does the "Karate FAQ"
could provide a cross-reference to terms and how they're used. After we figure
all that out, we can try to settle the kata nomenclature (is that Pinan/Heian
I in the original numbering system, or the way it was after Funakoshi 
changed it, etc)

My impression of the TKD folks is that they've got the terminology problem
under control.

Aikido is easy - if you don't know the name of a technique, just wave
your hands and use the words "kokyu nage" ;-). If that doesn't work,
use the word "atemi" and snicker.

Chinese terminology confuses me hopelessly, but I'll bet if I asked *real*
nice they'd explain what they were talking about ;-). Then again, maybe
not...

>For example, if I were to re-write David's example 'my' way (not that I'm 
>sure I understand what he meant!) I would phrase it something like:
>
>- Bad Guy is attacking from 12:00.

Tsk tsk...pretty judgemental! 

>- You are standing feet shoulder-width apart, hands at sides.
>- Bad Guy thows a high punch with HIS right hand.
>- You block his incoming arm with your left arm by:
>  - moving your left hand and arm in a circular motion up from your 
>    side, over to your right, such that on a *vertical* clockface, 
>    your elbow has not moved more than an inch or two to the right, 
>    but your hand has swept counter-clockwise from 6:00 to 2:00. 

Which way is the clock facing?

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts