From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Kalle Dussins arme (was Why Finns should study Swedish)
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:53:13 GMT

Tor Lillqvist (tml@tik.vtt.fi) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec11.160203.24774@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: 
: Maybe so, but you claimed that some Swedes deny there is a Finnish
: minority at all Sweden. Hardly can anybody deny that. 

In a strict sence of the sentence you are of course right.

But the official politics of Sweden still deny that, what does this
means. The Swedenfinns have demanded similar status as an ethnic
minority of Sweden like the saamis of Sweden have been recognized, but their
will is not accepted. The proposal is given for the political parties
represented in Swedish parlament, but until now no political party have 
taken a step into that direction in Sweden.
: 
: > I am trying to say following things: there is no census made in Sweden
: > since 1930:s where mother-tongue had been asked; this is what sweden-
: > finnish organisations are demanding from the authorities,
: > Statistiska Centralbyron, in order to become visible in the society as
: > an ethnic minority.
: 
: Can this be true? No official statistics in Sweden giving the
: population's mother tongue?

Certainly! Sweden has totally different politics in this than Finland
and it is bound with the ideology of " a monolingual Sweden".
: 
It is one of the main goals Swedenfinnish organizations demand in Sweden.
Similar politics would mean in Finland that such census where language
is asked would be abolished, then Finlandswedes "disappeared" from the
statistics.

If Sweden followed similar minority politics as Finland most of the major
Swedish towns should be bi-lingual like Turku, and that is what the
swedes try to avoid to the last "battle.."

Also according to the 1988 Nordic Language Agreement Sweden should
give for the finns of Sweden all services in finnish if the
finns so want, but Sweden does not follow this agreement.
It will be a dispute soon, you will see it, it depends on the nerves
of the Swedenfinns only.
: 
: But isn't the fact that these Finnish organizations in Sweden that are
: demanding these things have as members immigrant-Finns, not
: "Forest-Finns" or "Tornedal-Finns"?
: 
Forest Finns do not exist any more. They are assimilated like some red-
indian tribes of America...(some call it genocide, some do not consider it
as a genocide...as we have noticed)

Tornedal Finns have organized under their own organizisation and under
Acedemia Tornedaliensis.

The Finnish organisations cooperate 
under a name Ruotsinsuomalaisten Keskusliitto, if I remember correct.
Swedenfinnish Centralorganization which is an "umbrella" organisation
for many different organisations of the finns of Sweden. How much they
cooperate with Tornedalfinnish organisations I do not know.
Best answer can give Bertil Isaksson and Bengt Pohjonen.
Also in Swedenfinnish Centralorganisation is many religious movements
and one should remember that for instance Finnish Parish has been
in Stockholm since medieval times.

As a side note; the Finnish social democrats have own units in Sweden
but Swedish Social Democrat Party refuse to give for them any higher
status within Social Democrat movement in Sweden. 

They sing the same song "the finns have to be integrated into the society..."
which means no own organisations...similar ideology whould mean in Finland
that all Finlandswedish organizations should be abolished...in order
to "integrate" Finlandswedes into the mainstream....I mean if we copy swedish
way of thinking and policy into Finland.

And many thingns have been copied...may be once this too, who knows.

The Finns actually should form an own political party in Sweden and such
a discussion is going on. Swedish political parties are of course
against the idea and assure thant they look the interests of the Finns
which is nonsence in practice.

: I was trying to be satiric. In fact I am a pacifist and conscientous
: objectioner myself.
: 
Sorry. I am "a pasifist" too. I am freed of the army service after the
consprict time after my apply. I could not cooperate with an army which
was bound to serve the interests of Soviet Union as our army was during
Brechnew time. Beleive me I was in hard examines for that! 
But I am free and I like it!
regards,
jarmo
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