HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: BRUNDLE TO WILLIAMS!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:24:20 GMT
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.economics.adelaide.edu.au

In article <bert.718875465@athena.llnl.gov>, bert@athena.llnl.gov writes:
> t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
>>In article <Meonw7S00awP4DNF8P@andrew.cmu.edu>, jmb3+@andrew.cmu.edu (Juan Jose Mata) writes:
>>> So, it sure looks like Brundle's little piece in Autoweek this week
>>> softened some hearts in the hard-hearted F1 world ... :)
> 
> Here in F1, my name's been linked to Williams.  I have not signed a contract
> for the Williams team.  I understand I am very high on the list, if not at the
> top of the list.  The team will make a decision at the end of the week.

In our most reliable daily newspaper, "The Advertiser" it was reported today
that Frank Williams has told Brundle that the whole deal is off, even after
Brundle had accepted Williams' offer.  

Any others hear  about this?

Could it be a way for Mansell to be bought back from Team Haas by Williams?


regs

Rob
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: KEVIN ROYCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:59:19 GMT

Hey Kevin, are you out there anywhere? I lost your address, so 
write me sometime. thanks.

TOBY...
From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 dates for 1993
Date: 8 Oct 1992 21:05:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


That is for the '93 season.  The Japanese Grand Prix will be held
at Suzuka this year.  I'm sure that the race would be moved to
Suzuka next year if not at Autopolis.  Last year 4 million Japanese
tried to get tickets.  You think Ecclestone would pass up a full
house grand prix venue.  Me neither.
-- 

-Brian Wilson...               No, not from the Beach Boys!
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: New teams
Date: 12 Oct 1992 19:30:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson) says:

>
>The Sauber team was the subject of an On Track article in last   
>week's edition.  According to the Sauber, the gearbox for the
>car will be operated on the steering wheel presumably like that
>on the Williams, Ferrari, and McLaren.  The big difference is,
>however, the drivers will still have to operate the clutch in
>a normal manner.  The gears are selected from the steering 
>wheel, but the transmission mechanicals will apparently be con-
>ventional.  A semi-automatic gearbox could not be far behind.
>-- 
>
>-Brian Wilson...               No, not from the Beach Boys!
>
>
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Speed Comparison
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:51:47 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

I cannot buy such a disparity in lap times as mentioned at Suzuka.  However,
I do not have any data at hand to disprove those times.  I believe times
between the two series are much closer with cars faster than bikes, the 
margin depends on the type of circuit (fast circuit = more gap between the
two).

Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rmoises@titan.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Roger Moises)
Subject: Re: Question
Reply-To: rmoises@titan.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Co., Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:36:36 GMT

In article 8033@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood) writes:
>
>Can anyone comfirm that Porsche won the manufacturer's cup in the Bridgestone 
>Supercar series?  Thanks.
>
>Deron Wood

  The results from yesterday's Del Mar Supercar race would also be
appreciated...

Thanks,
Roger
-------------------------------------------------
Roger T. Moises - UNIX System Manager
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co., Inc. Palo Alto, CA
e-mail: moises@lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: WC championship was(Rumors of my death...)
From: <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:57:05 EDT
Organization: Penn State University









>Now, to start a new topic: does anyone *really* want to win the WC
>championship?  The Elliott and Allison teams sure don't look like it...
>could this be Mark Martin's year after all?

>--
>David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-4517
>(cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
>"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
>not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."

      I figured Bill to loose a bunch of points at Martinsville and
      N.Wilkes, but this Charlotte race took me by surprise. I still
      haven't heard weather he hit the wall or the track bar just broke.
      I thought PRN said that the points leader just grazed the wall
      and then he ended up in the pits up on jacks. I sure hope if it
      ain't Bill at the end of year that Alan wins it all!
   Brian ' I want an AWESOME championship' France
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Top Five Drivers/Top Three Tracks
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:17:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: fang.BvrBsv.8wp
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL

Interesting thread, especially with revisions.

Top drivers -- not rank ordered

R. Caracciola
J. M. Fangio
T. Nuvolari
C. Jenatzy
S. Moss

Top tracks -- not rank ordered

Nurburgring
Laguna Seca
Spa

-- 
Grayson Walker                                           CHC, Maitland, Florida 
Forza!                                            Internet: agwiii@fang.att.com
Voice: 407 660 7949               ". . . big brown river . . ." Tuli Kupferberg
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: NASCAR & Mickey D's
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:23:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SPSS Inc.

bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:

>Also, will this deal force the hand of, say, Burger King?  Will the 
>hamburger wars spill over to motorsports?  Either way, it's good for the
>fans, as this involvement means racing continues.
>
We can replace the Beer Wars with Cola Wars, too....I'm wondering why
Pepsi, Coke, etc aren't sponsoring cars....

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker)
Subject: Re: Top Five (US) drivers; forget the tracks ....
Originator: deanb@pecan10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:34:32 CDT



My opinion (in no particular order):

* Ken Schrader - For just pure versatility, he'll drive anything and he's good
	at all of it. What did he say earlier? something about 150 races a year.

* Dick Trickle - I know he hasn't made his mark on NASCAR, but this guy truly
	dominates on the short tracks and has won hundreds of races.

* Steve Kinser - The Richard Petty of sprint car racing, nothing fancy, he just
	wins.

* Rick Egersdorf, Ron Jones - local NW Wisconsin area drivers, they are the men
	to beat...their top five in my book. (You can add a :) there.)

-Dean
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gray@tinman.asel.udel.edu (John Gray)
Subject: Re: MRN coverage of Charlotte?
Organization: AI duPont Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:20:18 GMT

In article <13OCT199211182968@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
>owner of PRN (me thinks there may be some affiliation between MRN and 
>International Speedway Corporation :-) ).

I believe that is a divison of Internation Speedway Corporation.  It
is stated as so as part little blurb that starts out in a deep voice
"This is MRN Radio ......"

John Gray
gray@asel.udel.edu

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Max Mosely Interview
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:31:07 GMT

In <1992Oct7.001943.5168@morrow.stanford.edu> jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:

>In article <Oct.6.18.59.16.1992.13306@lessfilling.rutgers.edu> froncio@lessfilling.rutgers.edu (Andy Froncioni) writes:
>>jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>>> 
>>> When people point out how much more technologically advanced F1 is in 
>>> comparison to IndyCar/CART, a national series with all its rules designed to 
>>Engine:     F1 specs for turbo were 1300 Hp for 1500 cc engine for a
>>            1986 BMW engine, I think.

And how long did the much vaunted 1300 bhp BMW engine last? And how 
many of them were there? It's like the 1936 Mercedes GP car, (W136?) which
is _always_ referred to as having 646bhp. No more, no less. Always 646bhp.
How often did they see that on the dyno I wonder?  And with the BMW
in the days of qualifying boost, everyone referred to them as grenades.
So you can't use the unrestricted boost days of F1 as evidence of 
crushing technical superiority. Why not try for the days of fuel economy
and boost regulations, there they were getting 7-800+ bhp on limited boost
on a limited amount of fuel.

>>than a driver, I prefer a forum that pits the engineers' wits against
>>one another.   That's why I prefer F1...

Which (IMHO) is the real problem. The focus of F1 has changed over the
last 10 or 20 years. It used to be much more even, and the driver's 
skills were often the most important part of the winning combination.
Admittedly this was usually in the days of bought-in engines, such as
in the early 60s, with Coventry-Climax and BRM providing customer engines
for half the field, and for most of the 70s, with Cosworth providing 
engines for 3/4s of the field. Sure the technology wasn't the absolute
best that could have been done, but the racing was much closer.
Nowadays, if you don't have the engine from Renault or Honda, you're
really not in the race. Odd exceptions to the rule occur, when driver's
can still make a difference (such as Schumacher at Spa), but by and
large most people this year have been tooling around behind the Williams
and waiting for them to break or do something silly.
To me, that's not racing.

regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
"Detachment of any of the four wheels adversely|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 affects vehicle stability..." -               |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Petrese too old ??
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:43:59 GMT

In <10707549.1.718700371@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> 10707549@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (RADEK PRCHAL) writes:

> to other drivers. After all just look at his F1 record !! In more than
> 220 races he only won 5 times. He has driven for number of teams, always
> being their number TWO driver. Just look how easily Mansell beats him !!

Well, the first usually comes from the second. Being a number 2 driver
normally precludes you from winning a lot of races, as you are supposed
to let your teammate pass. And if your teammate has a car that is as
reliable as yours, he will win instead of you. Although I'm not suggesting
that Patrese is faster than Mansell anyway.

> If you have two drivers in identical cars and one of them always beats the
> other, there is only one reasonable deduction. One is real good, the other
> is .......... (%@#*!!@#%%#!!).

No, I really don't think you could say that _any_ driver in F1 is 
'(%@#*!!@#%%#!!)' (except for Grouillard, perhaps). And the fact that
Patrese is still driving for one of the top teams must show something.
He is still up at the sharp end of the grid in every race, and quite
often is only out-qualified by Mansell. I think your reasonable deduction
goes beyond the proof available.


regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
"Detachment of any of the four wheels adversely|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 affects vehicle stability..." -               |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: wcarroll@encore.com (William Carroll)
Subject: Re: Report of NEW course to be built in S. Florida
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:00:53 GMT

<MREED@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:
>This week my mother sent an article from the Palm Beach Post
>newspaper concerning the proposed construction of a
>purpose built road course racing facility, the article
>alleges the proposed facility could be home to the now
>absent USGP, an Indycar race and winter testing. The article
>was centered around legal and financial problems of the
>central figure who's name suddenly escapes me and I've
>trown the article away. I live 175 miles north in
>Orlando, FL and have not heard a peep here about
>any of this from the local media. Does anyone have any
>info about this.

I live in Ft. Lauderdale and its news to me.

Are you sure the track was destined for SoFL? Or was the rich
guy being sued from Palm Beach?

>I really want to believe that it's
>possible there could be a F1, Indycar, NASCAR , as well
>as IMSA 24 hrs at Daytona and 12 hr Sebring  races
>all in the state of Florida.

I wouldn't get too excited. Finding a big enough patch of land
near enough a major city to build an F1-class facility would be
difficult in SoFL. And if someone actually could swing the land
deal and announced plans to build a track, I would expect it to
be BIG news.

And I would question the wisdom of locating a major facility in
an area where auro racing coverage is so poor. The Indy race in
Miami died, the IMSA race in Palm Beach has died. The print and
video media only cover Indy, Daytona, sometimes Sebring, and
the spectacular crashes. It doesn't sound like a real good
investment opportunity to me.


William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcarroll@encore.com

"We trained hard,  but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form
up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that
we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing;  and a wonderful method
it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion,
inefficiency, and demoralization."	-Petronius Arbiter, 210 BC
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
From: meier@thumper (Christopher Meier)
Subject: Re: Update: Tires - Slick vs. Treaded
Organization: Image Manipulation Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:45:52 GMT

In article <BvtuBK.Dx4@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> white@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Brad White) writes:
>First I would like to thank all those who responded.  I would like to ask
>one more question.  My friends new argument, is that one usually gets worse
>gas mileage on heavier treaded tires (snow, M & S etc.) then on summer
>tires.  Thus, he argues this proves that the reason racers use slicks is for
>mileage, but we use treaded for better traction...
>Brad

Wrong.  Racers use slicks for better traction (in dry conditions).
More surface area on pavement transfers more power to pavement,
ie, less or no wheelspin.  Gas mileage has nothing to do with it.
You optimize handling (including tires) to maximize traction and
lap times, and mess with the engine (fuel mixture) to improve mileage.
Snow tires usually have a softer compound, and different (call it
zigzag) tread design to maximize bite in snow.  You can't really
compare gas mileage.  Street tires are designed for optimal traction
in varying conditions *and* for wear characteristics.  Two different
worlds.  Tell you friend to stop by his friendly neighborhood tire
dealer, and then visit a local track, before he wastes any more
of your time.
-- 

@ Christopher  M.  Meier                    Image Manipulation Systems
@ Voice: (612) 753-5602 Fax: -5603          17595 Partridge St NW
@ meier%thumper@src.honeywell.com           Andover, MN 55304-1456
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: AutoWeek on Patrese's crash
Date: 7 Oct 1992 18:59:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) says:

>He admitted he didn't signal in any way.  The excuse why doesn't cut it.
>By the time of the contact the corner was long since completed -- the
>g-forces had subsided.  If the pit entrance WAS too close to the
>corner's exit to permit time for a signal (and reaction time for the
>following driver), he was obligated to signal earlier if necessary.


You are right.  But how much time did he have to come to this conclusion?
~1:20 or , depending on what you said is true.  Either way even if he
did think about the consequences which he probably did not, since he
didn't expect Patrese to be following that close it still could have
been a hard decision to make and still concentrate on racing.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
>
>Guilty.
>
>Dave Wilson
>
From: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Alan Jones (was Re: More Rumours from Portugal ...)
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:19:49 GMT
Reply-To: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Organization: QPSX Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

torda@igc.ethz.ch (Andrew Torda) writes:
: Is he still mucking around in the Oz touring cars ?

He most certainly is.  He's been piloting one of the two competive BMW
325s that have been running in the Oz touring circus.  As CAMs has
effectively banned all but two particular types of car in next years rule, Jones
is going to drive an example of one of them.  I _think_ it will be a
Ford Falcon and I am _sure_ that someone will brutally correct me if I
am wrong.

Oh yes, the '67 world champ, Denny Hulme, died driving the other one
(BMW) at Bathurst this year - a heart attack at or near 150mph.

Conrad
--
"A carnival of misery so tragically our own,
 Where gathered 'round the ballot box we reap what we have sown"
               "These Festivals" Leunig, 1992

Email: conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au
Snail: QPSX Communications, Private Bag 24, West Perth 6005, Australia. 
Numbers:(ph) +61 9 324 1641, (fx) +61 9 321 2984 (dod) 0604
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Motorsports vs. Traditional Sports
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:23:02 GMT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 20399@ncube.com, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:

> I'm soliciting comments/opinions on an article I'm putting
> together for publication.  Basically it addresses the level
> of media coverage (newspapers/tv/radio) motorsports receives
> in comparison to all other sports (traditionally stick and
> ball stuff) in the '90's.  It will also touch on "how do we
> break down the stereotyping of those of us who primarily
> enjoy motorsports by other sports fans?" (or, if that can
> ever take place).

> Any sports psychologists out there??

This is of course not a new question; I recall seeing it raised in
print in the past.  I'm not a sports or journalism psychologist, nor do
I play one on TV, and am not inclined to speculate.

However. . .a couple of weeks back you posted a most interesting
analysis of how much more exposure Bettenhausen's IndyCar sponsors have
gotten since Stefan Johansson started driving the car.  Surely the
folks who do this kind of thinking have looked into the larger
question?  I fear that even if they have a good handle on the Nature Of
The Problem they will be of little help in suggesting a Solution, since
if they had one they would be working on it; after all, they have an
actual financial stake in the matter!  But it would be interesting to
find out.

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

     Sloppy thinking gets worse over time
				- Jenny Holzer


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Motorsports vs. Traditional Sports
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: na
Date: 15 Oct 1992 10:22 EST  

In article <1992Oct14.202438.25993@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes...

>Purdue still holds the Grand Prix every spring.  33 of the fastest qualifiers
>race around a permanent track on the campus.  It usually is won by a team that
>has a driver with racing experience.  It garner's TV coverage around here.

Hmm...  Do they still have the "nude olympics" at Cary Quad?
From: bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna test drive Williams
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:15:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

Comparing the times given by Andrew Henry for the drivers who tested
on both 992 and 93 tyres we get the following:

                     1992 tyres           1993 tyres

Naspetti           1m 18.32  Tue         1m 19.26 Wed
Warwick            1m 18.69  Wed         1m 17.83 Thur
Gachot             1m 20.25  Tue         1m 17.91 Thur
Gugelmin           1m 21.40  Tue         1m 18.93 Wed

Also somebody else mentionned that Alesi was slightly faster on 93 tyres
than on the 92s. Now are these 93 tyres qualifying tyres ? 
Both Gachot and Gugelmin are more than 2 second faster on 
the skinny tyres !!!

Weren't these tyres introduced to slow the cars down ?

bruno.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pmh2962@tamsun.tamu.edu (Patrick Michael Hayes)
Subject: Mr Versatile:  Andretti? Hmmmm ....
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:17:17 GMT

Howdy!
	According to UPI sources, Mario Andretti just won an
award called "Driver of the Quarter Century" or something like
that.  The press clip mentions Mario is the only driver to
garner (I like that word) wins in F1, USAC dirt and pavement,
NASCAR, and Indycar all together.
	Mario "beat out" The King and AJ, among others. The award
was presented tonite in Charlotte.

	So much for my "top five" list .....
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Hayes, Meteorology, TAMU  <whoop!>  " ... Aggie by the grace of God."
net: phayes@tamu.edu -or- O&M 1008, TAMU, CS, TX 77843-3150 (409)845-1680 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: squigg@gssec.bt.co.uk (Stephen Quigg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna test drive Williams
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:25:14 GMT
Organization: BT Glasgow Systems and Software Engineering Centre, Scotland.


-- 
STOP PRESS !!!!
Brundle DEFINATELY not driving a Williams next year(Frank Williams words..)

Could it be Damon Hill ,the test driver ???
Or could Williams (as rumoured on TV) be pinched back in to a Williams in his
usual solid team-mate position ??

Stephen Quigg
squigg@gssec.bt.co.uk 
British Telecom , GSSEC , Glasgow
(Nothing in any of my mail represents my Employer in any way)

Take me to the church of the KLF !

      
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johng@syacus.acus.oz.au (John GriffithsMel)
Subject: Re: Senna test drive Williams
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:19:10 GMT

ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:

>Apparently this was reported on Australian TV last week according to a
>friend of mine...Is this true..I asked my friend if he may have misheard 
>and instead it was Prost test driving..but he is adamant that he heard Senna.

>Anybody ??

>David

Alan Jones said on the channel 9 coverage (BBC feed) that Prost was test
driving in Portugal. This would be in the week following the race.
Your friend misheard (unless I did ;-))

John