From: walt@bones.gatech.edu (W. B. Ligon III)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Basic jointing questions
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:08:55 GMT
Reply-To: walt@cc.gatech.edu (W. B. Ligon III)
Organization: Georgia Tech Software Research Center

In article <12353@inews.intel.com> pmeyer@sedona.intel.com (Paul Meyer) writes:
>
>	Ok, here are a bunch of questions from a new woodworker who's
>been reading rw for a few months and has read the faq.  Please send me
>mail and I'll summarize.  Answers to any part will be appreciated.  As
>will comments that I'm asking the wrong questions.
>
>	So far I have a 7-1/4" portable circular saw, a 1.5 hp router in
>a good table with an incra-jig, a drill, orbital and belt sanders, a
>block plane, a 14" jack plane, and lots of hand tools and clamps.  Right
>now I'm working on making a simple 6'x3' table top from glued up 2x6's.
>My biggest challenge right now is getting the 2x6's true and square for
>gluing up with no table saw or jointer.
>
>	For now, I'm using my jack plane.  Everything I read says that
>what I'm doing now should be done with a 22-24" jointer plane. Where
>can I get one, and how much will it cost?  14" is the largest I've
>seen anywhere.  Any ideas on places to look for used ones?

You can get a jointer plane from several places.  Examples would be
Highland Hardware and Garrett Wade - both addresses are in the FAQ.
HH also typically has some used planes about (I was there yesterday and
they had some.  You can often find old planes at flea markets, antique
show and antique stores that specialize in "primitive" and "country"
antiques.  I've seen quite a few for reasonable places.  Be careful,
those folks know nothgin about tools (usually) so its up to you to know
what is a good tool and what isn't.  There is a book (Dunbar?) that
should give you the knowledge you need.  The price on a new Record #7 is
about $100.  A Record #8 is about $120.  Most of the old wooden ones I've
seen are about $65.

BTW, iff you are going to do this by hand, you'll also need a decent
marking guage.  You should be able to get one for about $20 or make
one (a recent "Woodwork" mag has an article about making one).  You'll
also need a good trysquare.  I'd recommend a steel engineer's square.

Next, I would suggest you consider making a shooting board.  This is
a jig that allows you to lay your plane on its side and "shoot" the
edge - solves that nagging "I can't keep it flat" problem.  Most
reasonable texts on traditional techniques should have plans for one.
I'm sure FWW on planes and chisels does, and I think Landis' Workbench
book does too.

Finally, if you DO pick up a jointer plane, you might consider configuring
your jack plane as a scrub plane for heavy stock removal.

Here's my technique:

1) start with good material.  Get to know your wood and its grain.  I use
quarter-sawn oak, there's less warping with that.  Get good straight grain,
and try to start with a board that is fairly flat.  Get it unsurfaced, you'll
have mor material to play with.

2) true up one surface.  I have a power planer I start with (Ryobi, about
$100).  Take of the saw marks then work with your jointer plane.  If you have
a scrub plane, use it first to get close and then finish with your jointer.
Plane diagonally across the grain to remove cup, lenthwise to remove bowing.
use winding sticks to check for twist (hope to avoid this with good lumber
selection).  When planing with the grain, skew the plane.

3) now use your marking guage to scribe a line on the edge.  Darken with
a pensil.  This is where you will have to plane the other face to.  If you
have alot of material to remove in one area, use your power plane or
scrub plane.  try to get the surface even about 1/16  ro 1/32 above the line
and then plane down to the line with the jointer using long strokes.

4) now do the edges.  I cheat and use my TS to get a good edge.  With a
plane its called using your trysquare to keep any eye on things.  Here is
where the shooting board comes in.  With it you can get a good square edge.

5) again use the marking guage to measure width, cut and true.

realisticly, you're just not going to get perfectly thicknessed boards.
Get 'em close.  Then clamp mating faces together and joint the joining
edges. dowel, glue, and clamp.  When the glue dries, use your jointer
to clean up the joint and get the mating surfaces perfectly flush.  At
this point, you're not taking about taking off but a little bit of stock.

Finally, use your smooth plane, then your cabinet scraper to finish the
surface, and you are ready to go to finishing.

have fun ...

>	I can't afford $600 or more for table saw in the next six
>months. I'd rather avoid spending $200-300 for a jointer, but might be
>able to swing it.

I notice Grizzly has just come out with a 4" jointer for about $250.
might want to look at that.  I've noticed NORM (remeber him?) uses
a 4".  Not as good for jointing the faces, but just fine for the edges.

>	I can do a reasonable job of jointing 3/4" stock on my router
>table with a 1" straight bit.  If I buy a more powerful router with a
>1/2" collet, I can get straight cutter bits up to 3" or so and use that
>in my router table as a jointer.  Or should I just spend the money on
>the jointer?  Or is there any way to adapt a 1/4" collet craftsmen
>router to a 1/2" shank bit?

I've seen alot about this.  My own judgement is that this, in the end,
probably isn't the smart setup.  If you HAVE a router, the money spent
on a bigger one could be applied elsewhere unless you just HAVE to have
the bigger one (like to spin a panel raising bit or something).  I
never like to buy a tool primarily to be used for a purpose other than
the one it was intended for.

>	I could probably afford a couple hundred dollars in a pinch.
>Is a cheap table saw better than none?  I see a 10" Grizzly used for
>$300 in the paper.  Or would I be better off spending a couple hundred
>on a reasonable 4"-6" jointer?  Is a table saw cut straight and square
>enough for gluing up?

This might be a good option.  In my opinion, a well-selected cheap TS
can be a real boon to your shop.  I've seen some cheap but heavy
duty TS's for sale new.  The main thing is to inspect your unit VERY
closely before you buy.  I know conventional wisdom in this group is
buy high quality, but I think as long as the table is flat, the arbor
true, and the construction cast iron and sturdy,  a good blade, new pulleys,
a new fence and a new motor can make most any table saw a star.  I'm not
saying you have to go out a buy all of this now, but the point is you
can get more accuracy, more power, and less vibration with upgrades and do
it over time as you find the need.  Heck, you HAVE an incra jig - for
high precision TS cuts you can use that.  You will probably find the
motor has plenty of power, and you're going to want a new blade anyway.
You can get a good blade+stablizers for $50.  With your incra jig, you're
in business.  Worry about the other toys later.
The best deals may be in the used market.  Check the papers, look around.
Check the garage sales.  You never know what you'll find.

As for the problem at hand, you might want to inquire at your hardwood
dealer what they charge to true up the lumber for you.  It might be
the quickest means to get on with your project (thus avoiding dreaded
sloths :-).  In any case, I am sure you'll find that all of these - be it
a jointer plane, power jointer, table saw, or whatever will prove to be
useful to you in the long run, so just pick what seems to be the best
path and go!

>
>	Any advice or ideas will be appreciated.  
>
>-- 
>******************************************************************************
>** Paul Meyer (602)554-2078 **	                                            **
>** Intel Corp. CH3-40       **       But its a DRY heat!!                   **
>** 5000 W. Chandler Blvd.   **______________________________________________**
>** Chandler, AZ 85210       **  "You killed my love"                        **
>** pmeyer@sedona.intel.com  **  "It's possible.  I kill a lot of people"    **
>******************************************************************************

Walt
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking