HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Right of way
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:59:44 GMT
Reply-To: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Distribution: na
Organization: National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory

In article <12518@sail.LABS.TEK.COM>, einart@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Einar
Traa) writes:
...
>give the least maneuverable craft the right-of-way.  Sailing vessels
>are some
>of the least maneuverable crafts around, and they were given
>right-of-way 
>over motor vessels.    Sailboards, on the other hand, are some of the
>most
>maneuverable craft on the water.  Technically a sail board is a
>sailing
 ...

When there is good wind.

I don't want people to think that I just want to rigidly demand my right
of way.  Though there is some merit to that.  If everyone follows the
rules you have some idea of what the other guy is going to do.  I'm sure
everyone has a story to tell, I didn't intend to tell this one, just get
some information.  Like, do sailboards have any right of way?

I live on a small shallow lake.  About 4 to 5 miles in circumference.  I
was trying to beat my way upwind to get back to my house.  The DNR and
another boat were parked off shore by about 100 ft.  I maneuvered around
them and had a clear shot for the landing area, close hauled.  The DNR
guy was watching me sail in.  Another power boat was cruising up the
shoreline closer in.  He nearly hit me and could have easily moved
further out to deeper water by 25 feet to clear me.  Rather than go
after him, the DNR decided to harrass the power boat that was simply
parked and count all of his life jackets and check his registration. 

The boat going up the shore was not fishing or restricted to a channel.

I do realize that I should not try to get an ore-freighter in a channel
to go around me.  Even a reasonably sized sailboat has alot of work to
do to change course if he's burdened.  But a small inboard should at
least observe the 25ft rule to any person.

To others, thanks for the address of the USWA.  Sound like a good
organization to join.

	John
From: poulton@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Ken Poulton)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Sail survey results
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:37:41 GMT
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA

> The winner swept both categories with 17 YEARS & 12 SAILS.  Can anyone beat
> this?  

Sure.  I've been sailing for 10 years (seriously for only 3) and have owned
14 sails in 4 generations of sail technology: 2 1982 dacron rags, 2 1989
RAF, 5 1990 CI, 5 1991 CI with floppy leach.  When you use a quiver of
5 sails, it's pretty easy to amass a large total.   I'll bet Rob Hartman
and Walt Menge have had more like 20.


Ken "not planning to buy any more sails for a while" Poulton
poulton@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: chuck@micro.caltech.edu (Chuck Higgins)
Subject: Board rental in LA county
Keywords: windsurf, rental, la
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:26:56 GMT

  I am very interested in getting back onto the water, but can't put out the
cash for my own board now;  where is the best place to rent a sailboard in 
Los Angeles county, or in San Diego, California?  Any recomendations for
places to go (lakes or beaches, etc).  Thanks in advance for any help.

            Chuck Higgins, Caltech EE
From: waltm@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Walt Menge)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:54:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Want Info On ASD/Other Composite Boards
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

More to add.  
ASD also uses heat to cure the layup.  This adds
significantly to their stiffness and strength.  I have both a 
9'1"CS and a 8'8"CS by ASD bought early this year.  The 9'1" is
great.  With a 6.2 I can sail (plane) in ~12ks.  Just light caps
need to be visible.  I've also been out on it with a 5.7, 14.5"
blade fin, in 20-25ks. doing upwind/downwind runs, others were 
on 4.5sm. and it handled very well.  No way would I go on a reach
in these conditions, but for cs the combination is great.

I've seen Rob Hartman and Mat Swartz (sp) out in 4.0 to 4.5
conditions on 6.2s, ofcourse they are Real Men and can do that
kind of stuff.  But still the ASD 9'1" still had to be somewhat
sailable. 

The 8'8" is a smaller version of the same thing, with somewhat
less flotation.  My wife uses it as her **9'1"**.  In 5.2 and
lower conditions it just plane smokes.  It's much faster than
the 9'1" but takes a lot more wind for me to get it going. (I'm
190lbs.)  I've jumped it a lot and so far have encountered no
problems.  

Mike's Lab boards are very, very nice, I think they have the 
reputation of being the "Best", but it takes forever to get a
new one and are very expensive.  They are made with pretty much the
same construction techniques, with differences only in small
details.  

From the adds for production boards it appears they don't use
divinisil, but other different materials to do the same thing
and add stringers and such made out of special materials.

BTW the new ASD's don't have the breather unless they may be
air shiped.  They found the layup so strong they don't
need them. 


Walter Menge             
USWA - 4M
ELM = waltm@hppafc27          
Hewlett Packard               
395 Page Mill Rd.             
Palo Alto, Calif. 94306       
(415)857-8982
From: gringort@wsl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Right of way
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:46:58 GMT
Reply-To: gringort@wsl.dec.com (Joel Gringorten)
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <1992Sep10.205533.29117@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, ktc@onan.jhuapl.edu writes:

|> This whole conversation revolves around issues that USWA has been the most  
|> effective in resolving... Access, protection from motorhead DNR geeks, relief  
|> from state PFD regs, etc. Why not everybody join and make the organization a  
|> real heavyweight?

Good idea.  Have an address?

-joel
From: cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: How To Unstuck a 2 Piece Mast
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:46:53 GMT
Reply-To: cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu)
Distribution: na
Organization: NCAR / Scientific Computing Division, Boulder CO.

In article <12836@express>, beaudoin@Software.Mitel.COM (Richard Beaudoin) writes:
> Suggestion needed to seperate a 2 piece mast. 
> 
> Friend of mine has a 2 piece mast which both pieces got stuck together after
> rigging on the beach. We tried tying one end to a post and both of us pulling
> all our might on the other end but the thing wouldn't budge. He also tried
> using penetrating oil, again, no success. Now I'm hopping someone in the
> group may have a suggestion.

Get a couple more friends together, so that you have two on each end of the 
mast, twist and pull - wha-lah.  I've never had one stuck badly enough that
this didn't work.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cris Hannu                       |  Windsurfing the high country.
Cray Research, Inc.              |
@NCAR - Boulder, CO              |         ^           ^
cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu        |        / \ ___)___ / \ 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ktc@onan.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Lifejackets while windsurfing
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:26:28 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University


 robg@Cadence.COM (Rob Garneau) writes:
 
 >A few people were talking about wearing a PFD in case their board got away
 >from them and they were not able to swim fast enough to catch it. Has that
 >ever happened to anyone? 

What can (and has, to me and others) happen is that your boom can wedge into 
straps or balance momentarily on top of the board, so that the sail is out of  
the water, but you're not on the board  (having crashed). Note that this  
probably happens in less-than-wired conditions, and relatively flat water.

The combo can go faster than you can catch up, particularly if you get hammered  
on the way in and take a few secs to locate the wreckage.

Lifejackets are good insurance, but nowadays I always keep a hand on something  
as I auger in. That way unless rig separates from the board you don't have to  
chase your ride home. In addition if you can keep the rig at arms length while  
crashing it can't hurt you very badly. People who get conked usually are in the  
water as  the rig comes down on them. If you stay with the rig, it hurts much  
less.

Anticipating gorge-types: Yes, there are times that the best thing to do is  
bail out and get as far away as you can. I'm starting to jump these days and  
see the sense in the bailout, but haven't figured out how to avoid a long swim.

Kim 
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: boris@athena.eng.hou.compaq.com (Boris Litinsky)
Subject: Tiga 260ACR & 275ACR
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:00:52 GMT

I am interested in either of these two Tiga boards. Has anyone sailed them?
WIll the Tiga 260 be able to carry a 6.4m sail without submerging?
I weigh 170lbs. I usually use my 6.4, or on a good day a 5.1.
How does it compare to a Mistral Screamer or Energy?

--
| Boris Litinsky	          "I came to the woods to live deliberately,  |
| ASIC Design Engineer 	          "so that when it came time to die, I had    |
| boris@athena.eng.hou.compaq.com "not learned that I have not lived."-Thoreau|
| "The views expressed here are my own, and not those of my employer."	      |
From: poorting@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert Poortinga)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: How To Unstuck a 2 Piece Mast
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:30:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Indiana University

In article <12836@express> beaudoin@Software.Mitel.COM (Richard Beaudoin) writes:
>Suggestion needed to seperate a 2 piece mast. 
>

Anyone ever try heating the top part around the joint with a hair dryer?
I'll bet that it helps.


Bob Poortinga  (6'0", 180 lbs)      It's a hard wind that's gonna blow...
(poorting@silver.ucs.indiana.edu)      ... R. Zimmerman
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: FANATIC JAG Info wanted
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:06:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.214605.10211@netlabs.com> gerard@netlabs.com (Gerard Horan) writes:
>
>I have been thinking about a new short board for a while. I want a board about
>8'8" approx 85l that I can jump and have fun with in high winds. For 
>durability and warranty reasons I am inclined to stay with a production
>board. ( I have had a great time with my Mistral Screamer). One of the
>boards I have an interest is the Fanatic JAG. Anybody sail/use this board?
>

I sailed the 1992 Jag last year in about 25+ knots. It had a very nice feel to
it. It has a flat bottom which made it somewhat bouncy in the chop. It took
me a couple jibes to get used to turning it. However, once I got used to it
it turned on a dime.

I had a rainbow blade fin on it. It seemed to go upwind extremely fast. I
was blowing people away on it using a 4.8 wave sail! It is a VERY fast board.
The problem with it is if you sail in very choppy waters, especially when the
wind picks up, it will be a handfull. It is great in flat to small chops. The
board only weighs in at 15 lbs! It needs a little wind to get going although
I did not test it in lighter conditions. It was cranking when I test drove
it.

On an added note someone mentioned production boards are not as well made
or as light/stiff as customs. Looking at the jag and the new fanatic mega
ray, I'd say production is getting up there.

I plan to buy the 1993 mega ray. It looks awesome. 1993 stats:

RAY (course/slalom) 	282cm, 116l, 15.6 lbs
JAG (highwind slalom) 	270cm, 90l, 14.2 lbs

-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
From: mueller@pi.fsu.edu (Frank Mueller)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Right of way
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:01:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science

In article <10SEP199201215467@cycvax.nscl.msu.edu>, yurkon@cycvax.nscl.msu.edu (IRBF) writes:
> Could anyone tell me whether Sailboards are considered to be sail powered
> vessels in Michigan, or whether they are just toys?  Our local DNR and sherrif
> seem to think that sailboards have no right of ways when encountering powered
> vessels or sailing vessels on the appropriate tacks.

Funny, I got a similar response when I asked around whether life jackets
were required for windsurfers in Florida when I got started with it. The
sherrif was completely imcompetent, so was the coast guard. They don't
seem to care. The "chamber of water and resources" (or something like that)
told me in fact that

  Windsurfer are considered toys!!!

She said that life jackets would therefore not be required. Now, I guess this
means that we have no right-of-way in Florida as well! (Though anybody I have
met on the water just treated us as sailers...)

Frank
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: westes@sti.com (Will Estes)
Subject: Want Info On ASD/Other Composite Boards
Organization: Mail Group
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:18:45 GMT

It's getting to the time of year when I start to think of upgrading my
board.   I have heard from several sources that the new generation of
composite layer boards by ASD, Mike's Lab, etc. are able to plane at
much lower windspeeds and to maintain their plane for much longer in
apparent wind.  Since I spent my share of days this season going through
lulls and coming off a plane, I am seriously considering getting one of
these boards.  

Questions are as follows:

1) Can someone give me a rundown on the difference in materials between
the ASD high-end composite boards and typical production high-end boards,
such as those made by Mistral, Bic, and Fanatic?

2) Are we likely to see the same materials get used in the Mistral, Bic,
etc. lines anytime soon, or are these materials likely to remain the
domain of the custom board makers?

3) Can someone explain to me why the ASD boards are able to maintain
their plane in lulls longer than production boards?  Is the only issue
the weight of the board?

For those who own a recent ASD design, I'm thinking of choosing between
their 8'8" course-slalom and the 8'8" bump and jump.  Can someone who
has tried both give me a rundown on one versus the other?

Which board is the one that I have heard referred to as the ASD
Stealth?
-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Chris Bigenwald)
Subject: Re: Swimming back with your gear
Reply-To: cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:55:26 GMT

To return to beach due to no wind:
- pull mast track all the way back (towards footstraps)
- straddle board just above universal joint, facing footraps
- pull rig onto stern 
- lay on your back and keep rig balanced with feet/legs under boom
- paddle towards shore

Unfortunately, you can't see where your going, since you are lying on your
back with your head at the front of the board, but this technique works well
on calm water with a transitional board (10'6").

The trick is to keep the rig balanced on the stern and out of the water as you
paddle.  It's a good technique because it's about 20 times faster than swimming
(the only thing in the water is the underside of the board).

Probably wouldn't work to well with a short board or when it's wavy, either.
----------------------------------------------
Chris J. Bigenwald
Rochester Institute of Technology
Computer Science graduate student & windsurfer
cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
----------------------------------------------
From: scott@fido.cs.jhu.edu (Scott Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Multi-Sail (two sails in one) recommendation ?
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:39:36 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD

bw@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Bruce White 3807) writes:

>A well known windsurfer looked at a Multisail during a rigging clinic and
>noticed how full the top of the sail was. He concluded that it would be
>difficult to control in gusty and high wind conditions, compared to the 
>new generation of loose-leach sails which twist off when they get overpowered.

>--- Bruce

I just ordered a Multi-Sail a few days ago, so I gave them a call and
asked them about this.  They said the sails are loose-leach
pre-twisted, and have been so since 1989.  He thought the problem
might have been that they rigged the sail wrong at the clinic (wrong
mast or too much outhaul), he had heard reports of similar problems at
other rigging clinics.  

Scott
--

------------------------------
Scott Smith, scott@cs.jhu.edu
------------------------------
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Caberette Winds Trip Quick Report
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:27:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep15.140724.1662@cs.tulane.edu> gb0wbff@vm.tcs.tulane.edu writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep12.024744.26230@netlabs.com> gerard@netlabs.com (Gerard
>Horan) writes:
>>
>>I will go back to Caberette. I will stay again at the Palm Beach, (Casa Laguna
>>was okay too but the power kept on going out). Next time I will probably bring
>>my own equipment. The equipment at Vela was okay but a little worn out. 
>
>needed was one.  When we go back we'll stay at the Palm Beach and bring our own
>gear.  My only concern is transporting the gear from the airport to Cabarete
>with an Grand Prix taxi driver.

I would advice on paying one way fare for the equipment. You apy about $75
from the USA to DR. On the way back the airline does not charge for the
equipment (eg. they dont weigh it). I have not done this myself but people
I've met at cabarete tell me the same.

>
>Does anyone know what is the best time of year for wind?  I was told mid May to
>mid July.  When we went in late Feb. it was 5.5 about half the time, but the
>wind didn't come up until after 1 in the afternoon.  In the summer is that the
>pattern, wind only in the afternoon?

I usually try to go each year. All indication (wind trends) show the time
between june through july has the most consistant winds. The locals will
tell you the same. I book my time for end of june to july (two weeks).

The wind is very predictable. In the morning you can go do other things
since the wind only picks up by early afternoon. This past summer I sailed
mostly on 4.5's. I had a few days on 4.0's. I weigh 165lbs and sail
wave/slalom boards while in cabarete.

BTW, it cranks year round but its more predictable during summer. Winter
has better (bigger) wave sailing. Although, you can get some pretty nice
waves (5ft+) during the summer on the outer reefs (mainly 4.0 days).


-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: johnk@gordian.com (John Kalucki)
Subject: Re: Board rental in LA county
Keywords: windsurf, rental, la
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:29:03 GMT

In article <chuck.716189216@merope>, chuck@micro.caltech.edu (Chuck Higgins) writes:
>  I am very interested in getting back onto the water, but can't put out the
>cash for my own board now;  where is the best place to rent a sailboard in 
>Los Angeles county, or in San Diego, California?  Any recomendations for
>places to go (lakes or beaches, etc).  Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>            Chuck Higgins, Caltech EE

If you don't mind sailing in Newport Bay (Newport Beach) there's
a place on 15th street that offers lessions and rentals. I personally
haven't rented there, but a roommate did last summer. I sail quite
a bit in Newport Bay. It's not great, but it's 50 yards from my
garage; can't beat a quick sail on a windy Saturday afternoon when
it only takes 10 minutes from impulse to water!

I'd think that someone would rent them on Alamitos Bay up in Naples,
but I didn't see anything the one time I went surfing up there.
Wind's much better in Alamitos/Seal Beach, BTW.

		-John Kalucki
		johnk@gordian.com
From: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: How To Unstuck a 2 Piece Mast
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:39:49 GMT
Reply-To: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.windsurfing, beaudoin@Software.Mitel.COM (Richard Beaudoin) writes:
>Suggestion needed to seperate a 2 piece mast.
>
>Friend of mine has a 2 piece mast which both pieces got stuck together after
>rigging on the beach. We tried tying one end to a post and both of us pulling
>all our might on the other end but the thing wouldn't budge. He also tried
>using penetrating oil, again, no success. Now I'm hopping someone in the
>group may have a suggestion.
>
>Richard


when you try pulling it apart with one end tied to a post, make sure
that the line connecting the post to the mast has about two feet of
slack. jerk the mast and when the line gets taught, the impact forces
will be much higher than if you just pull against the line. the drawback
is that 9 times out of 10 you fall on your but when it separates.
if that doesn't work sometimes rolling the mast up to the post with
the line rapped around it works. when the mast gets tight up against
the post, get you and your friend to twist in the same direction holding
one end of the mast, with the other end being held by the post.  this
will apply more force at the joint than just a static pull.

if these fail, try a car jack. seriously, when i spent 3 months in maui
about seven years ago, i didn't separate my mast the whole time i was
there. needless to say it was really stuck.  when i needed to get it
apart, i tied one end of the mast to a tree, and set the car jack horizontally
against a curb. i tied the moving end of the car jack to the mast and
cranked.  that sucker built up some serious tension. when the mast let
go, it shot about 20 feet.
anyhow, good luck!
rob
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 12:06:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Wanted Bay Area location Recommendations
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
From: mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang)
Subject: Re: Swimming back with your gear
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:46:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.165526.18606@ultb.isc.rit.edu> cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>To return to beach due to no wind:
>- pull mast track all the way back (towards footstraps)
>- straddle board just above universal joint, facing footraps
>- pull rig onto stern 
>- lay on your back and keep rig balanced with feet/legs under boom
>- paddle towards shore
>
>Unfortunately, you can't see where your going, since you are lying on your
>back with your head at the front of the board, but this technique works well
>on calm water with a transitional board (10'6").
>
>The trick is to keep the rig balanced on the stern and out of the water as you
>paddle. It's a good technique because it's about 20 times faster than swimming
>(the only thing in the water is the underside of the board).
>
>Probably wouldn't work to well with a short board or when it's wavy, either.

Well, this is interesting. I would recommend almost the complete opposite.

* Pull mast track all the way forward (toward nose)

* Straddle board just above universal joint, facing nose

* Pull rig onto tail

* Lie on your stomach and stick your legs through the booms to
  balance the rig.

* Paddle into shore.

-- 
Michael Wang
mmwang@mv.us.adobe.com