From: jek@duke.cs.duke.edu (James E. Kittock)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Reviews: Dangerous Journeys, Dreampark
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:53:01 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


This post is a followup to Chris Pound and Patrick Barnes' comments on
GDW's new game, Dangerous Journeys, by Gary Gygax and someone else
whose name has slipped my mind at the moment.  If you aren't
interested in my response, but want my new comments on the game,
please skip down to the OVERVIEW section below.

First off, I'll do everyone the favor of quickly profiling myself so
you can draw whatever conclusions you like about my prejudices.  I
have been an avid RPG player for only four years, never having played
before college.  I have mostly played AD&D in that time.  I have also
played some Call of Cthulhu and Cyberpunk 2020, so I am familiar with
skill-based systems.  Having said this, I think it should be clear
that I came into the RPG world long after the "cult of personality" of
E. Gary Gygax had largely dissipated, so that shouldn't be a factor in
my opinions.

Now that that is done, I would also like to say that it seems to me
that reviews like Chris Pound's don't help anyone too much, since it
consisted largely of comparing Dangerous Journeys to Harnmaster, which
not that many people (as far as I have been able to tell) are familiar
with.  Also, he made a number of blanket statements which were not in
any way backed up by facts or even subjective reasons for the
opinions: "Some of the game world is included and, despite the fact
that Aerth looks STUPID", for example.  I realize that his review was
not (hopefully) intended to be a complete review of the game, but in
some ways it was almost a disservice to anyone who might be
interested, because of its incompleteness.

I agree heartily with Patrick Barnes about the inappropriateness of
referring to DJ as AD&D3.  This game IS totally different from TSR's
games, and any similarities it might have to (A)D&D are to be expected
since they all came, at least in part, from the same mind.  Now, to
get on with my comments...

OVERVIEW

The only book I have seen (and thus been able to buy) so far has been
the 400+ page "_Mythus_" softback.  Dangerous Journeys is supposed to be
a generic role-playing system, and _Mythus_ is simply the fantasy
version of Dangerous Journeys.  I have no idea who is writing the
other DJ games, but it appears that Gygax was largely responsible for
_Mythus_.  

Pros: Since the DJ games will supposedly be based around a common core
game system, inter-genre play should be easily facilitated, which is a
plus for those who like the idea of mixing things up a bit.

Cons: Hints to other genres to be included in the DJ line include
something having to do with the "Unhallowed", beings intent upon the
destruction of humankind, etc. etc.  As a Lovecraft & CoC fan, I find
this to just be one more lousy uncreative ripoff of the Cthulhu Mythos
(like Dark Conspiracy).  Oh well.

PRODUCT QUALITY

Pros: The binding of _Mythus_ appears pretty sound.  The pages are of a
reasonable stock, not too thin (like most TSR books) or too heavy.

Cons: Maybe it is just me, but a 400+ page hardback (between 1.25" and
1.5" thick, I would say), seems doomed to eventual disintegration even
if it is well bound.

PRESENTATION

Pros: none really.  This is one aspect of the _Mythus_ book that really
disappointed me.

Cons: The page layout is a bit eye-taxing.  The font is a nonstandard
one & the pages are too busy, with small margins (at least this means
the book is packed with stuff, something TSR could learn from).  To
put it another way, I think I could have done a better job of laying
out _Mythus_ myself with PageMaker on a Macintosh.
   The illustrations are fair.  Not like the really hot stuff in some
of the other games I have seen, but not as bad as, say, old (A)D&D
stuff :-).  This is, of course, all a matter of taste.

CONTENTS AND ORGANIZATION

The contents of the _Mythus_ book are roughly as follows (in no
particular order):

Starter version of the game
Advanced version of the game
Magic system
Skill system
Combat system
Sample adventures (2)
Sample spells ("castings")
Sample monsters/creatures

Scattered throughout the book are bits and pieces about the _Mythus_
world, Aerth (more on that later).

Pros: Most everything you need to begin play is in the _Mythus_
book.  The starter version of the game, "Mythus Prime", looks like
a good introduction for RPG newcomers.

Cons: Some things that would have been nice to have are not in the
_Mythus_ book, such as more monsters, spells, items, etc.  There are
small amounts of sample spells, monsters, adventures, etc., but their
usefulness is limited (especially for trying to start up an adventure
from scratch in a brand new game system).  
   The organization within the book is only mediocre.  It is
frighteningly reminiscent of the 1st edition AD&D DMG in that some
things are hard to find and generally scattered about.  Some of this
is due to the layout, and some to disorganization.
   "Mythus Prime" seems a bit TOO different from the "real" rules for
experienced RPG players, i.e. the transition from "Mythus Prime" to
the advanced game is not all that smooth.  It would have been better,
in my opinion, to use the AD&D2 trick of marking rules as optional
where they occur.  Especially confusing is the apparent difference
between the values of statistics & the way of making skill checks vs.
"Mythus Prime" and the advanced game.

Comment: In some sense, the _Mythus_ tome contains at once too much
and not enough.  I can't believe I am saying this, but I almost wish
_Mythus_ had been a boxed set of booklets, rather than one phone-book
sized tome.  Although booklets get annoying, this IS the first edition
of this game, and boxed sets worked well for early editions of D&D,
Call of Cthulhu, etc.  Further, separating out the core rules would
make incorporation of Mythus with other Dangerous Journeys milieux an
easier task.  Another thing, assuming I was to play the game
regularly, would I really want to carry around "beginner's rules" and
two sample adventures all the time?  These things REALLY don't belong
in the fundamental book of the system.e

GAME MECHANICS

I haven't yet played Mythus, but have some thoughts from having
read over the rules.

Character Generation -- not too hard.  It is a bit unclear at first
what *good* the various stats are, i.e. what they really mean in game
terms.  Both point and die-roll based systems for determining
character stats are provided.  Each character has 3 basic overall
traits (Mental, Physical, Spiritual), each with 2 components, each
with 3 divisions for a total of 3x2x3 = 18 stats.  The way the stats
are broken down is fine, nothing great.  The names are a bit
confusing.  There is no stat equivalent to a Constitution or Health,
which I personally would have liked, since Size/Strength != Health,
but oh well.  Characters have other stats, like Attractiveness, but
these appear to be irrelevant to the skill system.

Skill System -- Almost all tasks are performed through the skill
system.  DJ's is your basic d% based system (i.e. if Bill has a skill
of 40 in Telephone Washing, his chance of washing a telephone
successfully is 40%).  Difficulty variations among tasks are handled
with a multiplier (e.g. Simple tasks have a 3x multiplier, so Bill's
skill would be 120%, while Extreme tasks have a 0.1x mutiplier, so
Bill's skill would be 4%).  
   Starting skill values (called "STEEP"s, an acronym for Skill
Training Education Experience Practice) are based on a characters
"Vocation" (i.e. profession, similar to but less restrictive than
(A)D&D classes) and statistics.  Some skills have sub-areas which can
be chosen from.
   The language system is interesting, if you like linguistics.  The
interrelations between various languages and dialects of the campaign
world are detailed in terms of interintelligibility (i.e. a speaker
with a skill of X in language A has an automatic skill of Y% * X in
language B since A and B are related).  A tree diagram of the lanuages
would have been nice.  Actually, this information probably doesn't
belong in the _Mythus_ book at all, but rather in the resource book
about the campaign world.

Magic -- Maybe I was just tired when I was reading _Mythus_, but I
found the description of _Mythus'_ magic system a bit confusing and
muddled..  Perhaps the _Mythus Magic_ book will clear some of this up.
The magic is based on Heka, a "fifth element" and source of power.
Characters are able to wield Heka through skills & items.  Casting is
on a spell point system: characters get so much Heka each day to play
with, as a function of Vocation, stats, and skills.  I feel that
insufficient information on the magic system was included with the
basic Mythus book, or else the Magic book should have been available
also (it may be and the store near me just may not have it).

Combat -- I have neither tested nor even digested this part of the
game yet, since it doesn't interest me all that much.  As Chris Pound
pointed out, the armor system is complex, possibly overly so.
Fighting skills are handled through the basic skill system, with
skills like "Fighting, Hand to Hand, nonlethal", "Fighting, Hand to
Hand, lethal", etc.

Money, items, etc. -- Money revolves around the BUC or basic unit of
currency (which conveniently has the approximate buying power of $1).
This makes pricing items & services quite easy.  If I was to really
play _Mythus_, I would certainly devise a coinage system (i.e. a Gold
Kron is worth 100 BUCs or whatever).  The short list of mundane items
provided seemed sufficient to extrapolate for anything characters
might want.

GAME WORLD

Until the separate book on the Mythus world, Aerth, comes out, only
bits and pieces about the world can be guessed at, but it is basically
an "Alternate Earth" (or perhaps just a misspelled Earth...).  If you
like that kind of thing, it should be really interesting.  If you like
radically different game worlds, well, too bad.  Aerth has an
adjoining land of Phaeree which is where mystical things come from.
Aerth also has a subterranean world and, yes, a hollow interior.  Just
what we needed.  The setting is a typical High Fantasy mishmash of
Medievalesque and Renaissance-like stuff along with Elves and Dwarves,
etc.

SUMMARY

I would agree with Chris Pound that _Mythus_ has a lot of rules.  It
is NOT a simple game.  A workable subset of the rules could probably
be found, but "Mythus Prime" doesn't quite seem to fill this role, as
it is too simplistic and different from the advanced game.

The overall structure and organization of the _Mythus_ book is not
so hot.  Too little of this, too much of that.

Dangerous Journeys'/Mythus' mechanics seem a bit complex in places.

The hand of E. Gary Gygax is at times quite obvious (the ever-present
"milieu" and "(q.v.)" pop to mind! :-).

For stauch AD&D fans, this is a pretty much irrelevant work, except
maybe as an insight into another way a game might work.  Personally, I
like class systems, and while I consider AD&Ds combat and skills (er,
proficiency) systems to be "broken", I think it has a lot going for
it.  Similarly, I enjoy "simple" skill based games, such as Call of
Cthulhu.  Dangerous Journeys/Mythus is similar to, and different from
these types of games, but the main thing I am left wondering about
_Mythus_ is, "What good is it?"  I personally don't see that it breaks
enough new ground in RPGs (especially fantasy RPGs) to live up to its
promise.

-- 
James Kittock   --   Duke class of 1992    --    Computer Science/Mathematics 
jek@cs.duke.edu | mcnc!duke!jek | PO Box 5750, Duke Station, Durham, NC 27706
"Yes, I will kiss the girl from Venus for science." - They Might be Giants