HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Pick and Choose? (was  Re: God is intolerant of sin!)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:39:42 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1jph2dINNe57@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>> this in spite of the fact that
>> large amounts of it, INCLUDING especially homosexual acts, were never addressed
>> by Christ.
>
>Homosexuality specifically, no; but sexual morality, yes. 

    Fine.  So we're back to a definition of sexual morality, which varies
from person to person.  Your morality is just fine with me, Walter, as long
as you don't use it as justification to deny me the same rights that you
have and take for granted.  How's that sound?
-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: God is intolerant of sin!
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:14:57 PST

In article <1jmoioINNpp5@hp-col.col.hp.com>, on 21 Jan 1993 18:04:08 GMT,
smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>
>twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>> In article <1jmdmsINNkei@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>> >So what do _you_ think the
>> >Bible says about homosexuality, Tim?
>>
>> Nothing.
>
>Really?  Paul had nothing to say in the Bible about it?  What does
>the recently cited parts of Romans, etc, mean to you?
>
That since Paul considers a state of celibacy to be superior to that
of marriage, he's the last person in the world who should be considered
to be a fit judge of what sexual conduct is natural for people.

    =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             I would have been born again; however,
Library Information Systems  Mom didn't think much of that idea.
University Research Library  Make money, not war!
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu     Closets are for clothes.
From: gadson@zeus.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Pick and Choose? (was  Re: God is intolerant of sin!)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:23 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu

In article <1jphdeINNe72@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes...
|kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

|accepting whatever they are told.  Plenty of people find homosexuality 
|objectionable without religious motivation at all; just on the 
|basis of being unnatural and (to them) physically revolting.  

	Yeah.  I tend to think this is what motivated St. Paul and some
others -- projections of one's own aesthetic tastes onto G-d.  I think
we all do it.  (But maybe that's how G-d works(?))  

	Of course, all this may have no meaning if Paul was actually
talking about temple prostitutes, and all that rot, rather than what I/we 
think of today as homosexuality. 

Gadson
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Special Rights for Heterosexuals (Re: Text of the CO Gay Discrimination Provisions Ammendment)
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:28:21 GMT

elliott@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jr. Frank W. Elliott) writes:

>In article <john.727819027@misty> john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
>>
>>So could you. The Colorado amendment simply prevents the enactment of
>>certain laws, which don't currently exist. It doesn't establish
>This is false.  The amendment prevents state agencies including courts
>from dealing with claims of discrimination based on lesbian, homosexual,
>or bisexual orientation.
I did read it. I didn't see that. Do you have the text? By the way, will
the courts currently deal with claims of discrimination based on
heterosexual orientation? If not, what's the fuss?
-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - If a field of study has the word "science" in it - it isn't a science - -
 - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:10283 alt.feminism:7632 alt.sex:43155 rec.arts.poems:13993
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.feminism,alt.sex,rec.arts.poems
Subject: "Dialogue" Re: On Forbidden Lusts / Marek
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:41:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: wam.1993Jan25.224117.28049
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Marek said:
[poems please]


A poem by Adrianne Rich, from -Diving into the Wreck-


		Dialogue

	She sits with one hand poised against her head, the
	other turning an old ring to the light
	for hours our talk has beaten
	like rain against the screens
	a sense of August and heat-lightning
	I get up, go to make tea, come back
	we look at each other
	then she says (and this is what I live through
	over and over)--she says: "I do not know
	if sex is an illusion

	I do not know
	who I was when I did those things
	or who I said I was
	or whether I willed to feel
	what I had read about
	or who in fact was there with me
	or whether I knew, even then
	that there was doubt about these things"


					-- Adrienne Rich

(I would very much like to go to a poetry reading by her)
There are many other poems worthy to be typed out and printed for everyone,
go read the book, then, please.

I am trying to write a poem for this, because [a girl asks me why I went,
to the gblstudent association meeting....	I am always curious why
straight people come, (I have a wedding band)		I never go again
I tried to explain...		], but
my poem is awful.

It is called

		I am very frightened to look at girls
		-------------------------------------

		and it talks about how I was afraid of
		finding out I was [a girl] 
		watching the girl on
		the gum commercial with pretty
		purple skin tight breasts
		and how I was embarassed during juniour	
		high prep rallies because of angela a
		black haired cheerleader from side to
		side and of how I seldom voluntarilly
		met another girl alone because I might
		see her. and someone will find out I
		am looking.

		once in highschool, I was a junior, a
		freshman wanted my phonenumber during
		lunch but had to ask if I was a dyke 
		first. I was offended. Later I asked
		my senior friends what a dyke meant.

		anyway, trust me, the actual poem is
		awful, and I can't write it, I can
		only tell you all about it. This is
		bad enough.


				-- Sheila an emperical heterosexual.


Let me repeat myself, I do not wish this to be conisedered a poem. 
It is not even good prose.
Thankyou for your time.
If you can write a poem about this please do so.


-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Pick and Choose? (was  Re: God is intolerant of sin!)
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:46:24 GMT
	    <1jn80uINN4j0@hp-col.col.hp.com>
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1jn80uINN4j0@hp-col.col.hp.com>
smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:

>> I think it's perfectly okay for someone to quote Leviticus about
>> homosexuality, as long as s/he follows it himself/herself.  So has s/he
>> given up:
>> Diapering his/her granddaughters?
>> Blended clothing?
>> Rare meat?
>> Shaving and cutting the hair at his/her temples?

>Evelyn, what is your religious upbringing?  Were you taught any of 
>the tenants of Christianity, from the point of view of any denomination
>in particular, or any at all?  Do you really not have any understanding 
>as to why laws like those from Leviticus are not still followed, while 
>sexual morality/conduct ones are?   

A better question might be: "Why is the sexual immorality of homosexuality
still accepted by some through blind faith, while casting away the other
social behavior laws?"

Or, what is the real distinction between sexual conduct and social conduct?

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:21:53 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1993Jan21.163402.9699@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>
krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:

>I just had an idea!  Let's all lobby to get gays recognized as a 
>bonified minority with special rights.
 ^^^^^^^^

	$webster bonified

	$'' not found.  Perhaps you meant:
 	$	1. bona fide


Then again, perhaps you meant something else.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Pick and Choose? (was  Re: God is intolerant of sin!)
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:38:59 GMT
	    <107980@bu.edu> <1993Jan22.194232.18972@wam.umd.edu>
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1993Jan22.194232.18972@wam.umd.edu>
aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:

>In article <107980@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>>We abandon part of our humanity if we accept things without question.

>So, I will qustion your assumption that we abandon part of our 
>humanity if we accept things without question.

Have you bothered to follow through the logical consequences of this silly
argument? Or are you just trying to be funny with your "endless loop"
style of arguing?

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Special Rights for Heterosexuals (Re: Text of the CO Gay Discrimination Provisions Ammendment)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:23:57 GMT

In article <john.727896602@misty> john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:

>To me, this says that the state (and its subsidiary political creatures)
>cannot adopt a statute (law), regulation (force of law), ordinance
>(law) or policy (government practice). What does this have to do with
>lawsuits?

Let's just see.  What do we get if we drop some of the redundancies?

AMENDMENT 2  (AMENDING THE COLORADO CONSTITUTION)

>>   "Neither the State of Colorado, nor any of its municipalities,
>>shall enact any statute whereby homosexual orientation shall entitle
>>any person to have any claim of discrimination."

Which word didn't you understand?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: 00bbharris@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: HATE CRIMES
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:48:26 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's


	Murder is murder.

	Indeed it is.  But the bottom-line is:  We, those of us who live in
America, live in a society who's justice system has leels of intesity.
That's why criminals go to court for two reasons: to determine guilt and to
determine the sentencing.  A mass murderer is by far in need of a heavier
sentence than that of someone who murdered once for drunken driving.

	Likewise, we get into the discussion of whether or not hate crimes
should be treated greater than other murders and crimes or less or equally. 
Maybe this will help you guys see *my* point of view:

	Man A kills Man C during a routine robbery.  Man B kills Man C solely
because Man B exists.  Man A could be any ole Joe on the street who is down o
their luck... Man C can be comparable to the likes of Hitler... Stalin...
kdafi.... Hussein....

	Situation B leads to Genocide... situation A does not...
so which is worse?  Ask yourself that....
brandon
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: God is intolerant of sin!
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:25:08 GMT

In article <1jpleqINNgj6@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>You don't seem to understand that no one here is calling fo making 
>homosexuality illegal; you hear someone say that they don't think 
>homosexuality is OK, and all sanity goes out the window.

You say this as though it were a wretchedly inhuman attitude to take.
Yet you don't hesitate to herald the cause of the poor, beleaguered
Christians who are regularly being attacked by the homosexuals in this
group.  Be consistent, Walter.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:10301 alt.rush-limbaugh:15174 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13847 alt.politics.clinton:21245 alt.politics.bush:16371
From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:34:47 GMT
Organization: JPL, Space Imaging Radar Software Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov


In article <C1F30p.G1q@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, 
Gregory.D.Wadlinger@dartmouth.edu (Gregory D. Wadlinger) writes:

|>My point is, gays don't deserve any more protection than anyone else,
|>and that is what Krueger is trying to illustrate in a humorous way.

And gays are not asking for any more protection than anyone else.  We
only want the same rights as you have.

--
Tim Fogarty (FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV)
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1 and SRL-2
SRL-1:  STS-59, launch date April 14, 1994
SRL-2:  STS-68, launch date December 1, 1994
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton
From: cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 01:54:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan24.234010.28186@Princeton.EDU> elliott@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jr. Frank W. Elliott) writes:
>In article <1jv6feINNbt5@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan21.163402.9699@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
[Stupid idea by Herr Keueger, in which he would pretend to be gay to keep
from getting fired from a job, deleted]
[Parts of my response deleted]
>>After all, once you've "come out of the closet", you could never make -any-
>>kind of reference to being straight ever again, could you? You'd have to lie,
>>and pretend to be gay, and pretend to be indignant when someone says a -really
>>funny- joke about AIDS, and you'd have to pretend to be 'between boyfriends',
>>and generally have to repress your own personal beliefs because you don't want
>>to lose your job. 
>Do you really think that he has the courage (read "balls") to put up with a
>life like this?

This is Ted we're talking about here. What do you -think-?

-- 
    "Well, do you ever get the feeling that the Story's too damn real
                        and in the present tense?"
               Christian Wagner - cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:10345 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13931 alt.politics.clinton:21320 alt.politics.bush:16390
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:13:07 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

>In article <1993Jan21.163402.9699@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>, krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
> I just had an idea!  Let's all lobby to get gays recognized as a 
> bonified minority with special rights.  Then, after the laws  get passed, 
> write open letters to our bosses stating that we are coming out of 
> the closet.  Afterward, if we get fired or layed-off for any reason, 
> we can just claim homophobia and discrimination.  We will keep our 
> jobs for life!

Actually, there's a lot to be said for Mr. Krueger's idea.  However,
gays are somewhat integrated into many segments of society and it
isn't clear that if Mr. Krueger were to be fired, that it might not
be by a supervisor who either had a record of supporting gay rights,
or who was gay him(her)self.   That would tend to undermine his idea.

However, if Mr. Krueger claimed to be a necrophiliac, I doubt that
he would ever run into the problem that his boss was one too.  If
Ted wants me to help, I'll be happy as a clam to help spread that
rumor about.  In fact, I even know somebody at the College of Medicine,
and we could possibly get a body for Mr Krueger to keep in his closet
at work.

Hey, if we got Ted a male corpse, he could be a homosexual
necrophiliac.   I'd love to see him write a letter to his boss
about that!
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:10395 soc.motss:58796
From: kurisuto@chopin.udel.edu (Sean J. Crist)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Subject: CUNY Board of Trustees Approves Hunter Diversity Requirement
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:25:53 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> asked me to post this.

kurisuto@chopin.udel.edu

_____________________________________________________________________

The CUNY Board of Trustees unanimously approved Hunter College's Diversity
Requirement. The requirement, approved by the Hunter College Senate on October
14, 1992 will affect all students entering Hunter as of the Fall 1993
semester.

The requirement is as follows:

RESOLVED: Before graduating from Hunter, every student is required to complete
twelve credits in courses that address issues of pluralism and diversity. Stu-
dents will choose one three-credit course from each of the four areas below.

1. A course that focuses on historical and intellectual issues comprising the
study of non-European cultures or their political/economic systems, especially
those of Africa, Asia, or those indigenous to the Americas;

2. A course that focuses on the perspectives and contributions of one or more
of the following groups in the United States of America: African Americans,
Asian Americans, Latino Americans, and Native Americans;

3. A course that focuses on the perspectives and concerns of women and/or
issues of gender/sexual orientation;

4.A course that focuses on major issues -- artistic, literary, practical,
or theoretical -- reflected in the intellectual traditions of, or principally
derived from, Europe.

Courses that satisfy this Pluralism and Diversity requirement may
simultaneously meet a student's distribution requirement or the courses
necessary for a major or minor area of study. The subject matter of the
courses to be taken can lie within any of the academic disciplines and
programs at the college.

As Chair of the Hunter College Senate, I take great pleasure and great
pride in the Board's action tonight.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:10306 alt.rush-limbaugh:15185 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13861 alt.politics.clinton:21261 alt.politics.bush:16377
From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Read this if you are straight!
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:11 GMT
Organization: NCSU

In article <C1Foss.H0J@unix.amherst.edu> 
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>Gregory.D.Wadlinger@dartmouth.edu (Gregory D. Wadlinger) writes:
>>garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

>>> I wonder how many people who claim that there is no reason for
>>> anti-discrimination legislation would be willing to write such
>>> letters in the absence of that legislation.

>> If you are gay, what do you do at work that sets you apart as gay and
>> thus vulnerable to extraordinary ridicule?  

> Is "extraordinary ridicule" the issue?  I thought it was job security.
> But to answer the first part of your question, it could include:
> wearing earrings, freedom rings, or black or pink triangle jewelry.
> Or putting a picture of your lover on your desk.  Or pinning an
> announcement of an LBG support group on the company bulletin board.

Many of these things are outlets for you to express your personality
and individuality at work.  In many ways, heterosexuals do not have 
a right to express themselves freely at work, although they do 
have more leeway in 'exposing' their sexuality than homosexuals,
such as putting a picture of their lover on the desk.  But I have
to wonder whether you are pushing for legislation which would give
you an equal right to 'expose' your sexuality, or because you really 
want the law to help stamp out homophobia and legitimize homosexuality.

I can recognize the inherent 'unfairness' of being forced to suppress 
your sexual orientation.  But you must understand that some heterosexuals 
may be forced to suppress a key element of their personality at work too.
It may not be associated with sexual orientation, but it may not be any 
less important to them.  Sexual orientation is not necessarily the most 
essential element of a person's identity.  Perhaps it would be helpful
if people defined what they see as the purpose of the law in this area.


>Tim Pierce


Doug Holtsinger
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush