From: wolffrnd@starburst.umd.edu (The Wolf Friend)
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: POLITICLA ANIMAL
Date: 24 Jan 1993 06:47:34 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

>From: paladin@planet10.WPI.EDU (Ever Shifting Bearlike Being...) writes...
[portions of conversation deleted to save space]
>In article <1jlklkINNlrm@cbl.umd.edu> wolffrnd@starburst.umd.edu (The Wolf 
Friend) writes:
>>paladin@rajeesh.WPI.EDU (Ever Shifting Bearlike Being...) writes...
>>>
>>>In article <9145@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> hagop@edison.seas.ucla.edu (Hagop D. 
>>>Janoyan) writes:
>>>>>In article <1j55f6INNpit@bigboote.WPI.EDU> paladin@pitt.WPI.EDU (Ever 
>>>>>Shifting Bearlike Being...) writes:
>>>>>>things that man has.. the urge for sex..for most males this seems to be a 
>>>>>>very overpowering urge...
>>>>Sex is an overpowering urge for some people
>>>>many people wait till marriage before "sex."  
>>"powerful" and "overpowering" are not the same thing.  More on that in a
>
>as for the overpowering?? have you ever been in a conversation with a (lets
>call it a Typical College Male or TCM) TCM.. i have lived with a few.. and 
>been trapped on buses with others(having been a member of the football team)
>invariably the conversations turn to sex.. and most of what they seem to 
>talk/think about is sex.. the getting of, reminiscing about, and the acts 
>itself... it seems to be all they can think of... 

Hmmm... well, I didn't mean to imply that some people weren't like that. 
Virtually all of my friends are male, and most of my casual acquaintances as
well.  However, I wouldn't classify most as "typical," anymore than I'd call
myself that. *grin*  I guess experiences tend to vary, because one person I
know says that he can't recall ever meeting someone whose whole life was run
by sex, although he's known people who constantly sought it when what they
really wanted was affection.  While my husband says that the description of an
overpowering drive certainly fits some people, although he would scarcely say
"most."  But since I'm not male, my personal experience about this subject is
naturally non-existent.  Therefore I have to bow out of this part of the
conversation, aside from what I've already said, since I prefer to just speak
from personal experience when possible.  One thing that I have heard mentioned
by those I've talked to, however, is that many males do go through a phase
during their late teens and early twenties during which the concept of sex
plays a *temporary*--but what seems to them at the time an overpowering--role.
Perhaps this is what you were referring to?

>sex was just an arbitrary choice of a baser instinct.. i could have chosen 
>other things...

Yep, I understand.  Eating, sleep, whatever... all very strong driving
forces.

>okay.. words are to me fairly meaningles... one is just as good as another...
>but as to your statement about the control being tenuous... well that was what
>i was attempting to get across... and failed miserably to do...

I would scarcely say "failed miserably"... for the most part I was mainly
agreeing and clarifying, as well as adding a few points of my own.  On the one
hand I don't believe that most people have no self control whatsoever, or even
close to that; but on the other hand I don't believe the majority are bastions
of steely willpower. *laughing at the mere thought of the latter!*

See, words may be meaningless by themselves but unless we all learn telepathy
they're all we have to communicate, at least over the net. ;) *teasing grin*

>>emotion alone governs one's thoughts or reactions. Some people can experience
>>extremely powerful emotions yet remain in control; while others may fall apart
>>at something quite minor by comparison. For myself, I find that my perception
>
>a good example of this is my absolute terror of hieghts... i decided it was 
>silly to be scared of heights... so i went rock-climbing/rapelling... i still
>experience the fear reaction... but it is controlled...

Being able to confront one's strongest fears and act rationally--even when
they threaten to engulf one's sense of self temporarily by their sheer
magnitude--takes real inner strength and courage.  So many people seem to
avoid or run from their fears endlessly, and then wonder why it doesn't solve
anything. 

Some fear in a dangerous situation is not only natural but healthy;
it keeps one more alert and better able to deal with whatever may arise.

There are many different sources of fear, however.  Suppose the overwhelming
terror originates from a specific incident or set of circumstances; as a
purely hypothetical situation let's consider someone who is already afraid
of flying, and then almost dies in a *terrible* plane crash.  Now that
person's fear has been both amplified and reinforced manyfold.  In fact, in
such a situation the person wouldn't necessarily have to have been afraid
of flying prior to the tragedy in order to develop a strong fear
afterwards; it would simply be even worse in the previous case.  Worst of
all, suppose someone is unlucky enough to be in *several* plane crashes,
though none nearly so terrible as the first.  Even if the person is still
determined to conquer their fear, it may be almost impossible for them to
put the past tragedies out of their mind.  It may get to the point where
even a perfectly ordinary change in engine pitch may be enough to throw
them into an absolute panic.

Now of course, the above example is not perfect since most people would be
able to simply avoid flying.  But assume it is a very complex situation in
which such is either not possible, or else counter to that person's entire
life situation and beliefs.  (Once again not the absolute best example since
most people don't form an entire belief system around flying, unless of course
you are Richard Bach. ;)  But hopefully the general idea which I'm trying to
convey is clear.  We'll assume for the sake of this discussion that the
person's actual life may depend in some respect on conquering this fear, and
yet years of struggle in order to do so simply end up reinforcing it even
further in some respects.  A very bad situation indeed...

>[really good dialogue deleted..]
>
>>[my comments on emotions so powerful that things get completely out of 
>> control]
>
>well said... 8)

Thanks for the compliments... *grateful smile*

> Paladin (ever shifting bearlike being....)	     

-------
Kathleen                                        Wolffriend@Kavishar.umd.edu

Moonlight glinting off the barrel of a hunter's rifle is forever reflected
in the knowing eyes of the wolf.  The echoes of the last shot fade off into
eternity, reverberating through time like a mournful howl which echoes among