HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:58:00 EDT
From:         Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Effort

Dear CHRISTIAns,

While not explicitly Christian, I was very moved by this poem which I
found in our local Teachers' Federation newsletter, and thought you
might like to hear it as well:

                                EFFORT
                                ------

He brought me his report card from the teacher and he said,
He wasn't very proud of it, and sadly bowed his head.
He was excellent in reading, and arithmetic was fair,
But I noticed there were several "unsatisfactories" there.
But one little bit of credit he was given brought me joy,
He was excellent in effort, and I fairly hugged the boy.

"Oh, it doesn't make much difference what is written on your card,"
I told the little fellow, "if you're only working hard."
"The very goods and excellents are fine, I must agree,
But the effort you are making means a whole lot more to me.
And the thing that's most important when this card is put aside,
Is to know that in spite of all, that to do your best you've tried."

"Just keep excellent in effort - all the rest will come to you,
There isn't any problem but some day you'll learn to do,
And at least when you grow older you will come to understand,
That by hard and patient toiling, men have risen to command.
And some day you will discover when the greater goal's at stake,
That better far than brilliance is the effort you will make."

                                                -- Unknown

As a teacher, I wish that more parents would read this and encourage
their children as this father has done.  And as a Christian, I like to
think that this father is like _our_ Father, who accepts us just as we
are, with all the mistakes that we make, because of our _willingness_
and subsequent effort to do His will.

Indeed, this message is the same as God's message to us, I think.  We
aren't perfect, and we can't make ourselves perfect no matter how hard
we try, but He loves us anyway because we (try to) do our best.

I hope this blesses you as much as it has blessed me.

God bless,
.------------------------v----------------------------------------------------.
| Jeff Shirton           | "Now it is God that has...given us the Spirit as a |
| shirton@McMaster.CA    |  deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."  2Cor.5:5 |
`------------------------^----------------------------------------------------'
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Date:         Sun, 5 Apr 1992 21:00:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Request for advice

From: Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
The Mindless slogans have a tendancy to put the argument in a very BLUNT
and very REAL way.. If you are offended by them ,then ask yourself
why you are offended them... If you do not believe a fetus is alive, then
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian:

I respect your opinion, and I understand the capability of a
slogan to summarize someone's position, making it more compatible
with today's soundbite media.
------------------------------------------------------------
As for me, I tend to like the slogans, because they show REALLY what we are
trying to say..
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Pro-abortionists are just big babies"
Is this really what you are trying to say?
This is my point: if my opponents on an issue indicate that they
have no respect for me, and no understanding of my position (and
I think anyone who BELIEVED that the above slogan was a good one
for the pro-life movement would qualify), I have a very difficult
time maintaining my respect for them.

Some of Kerry's slogans were quite clever.  But the above one
caught my eye immediately as being offensive without being
instructive, and the RU486 one doesn't deal with the issue of
abortion, but with the issue of contraception.  While many
pro-life supporters are also against contraception, not ALL of
them are.

Finally, I wasn't ONLY against the slogan post.  I was beginning
to feel that Kerry felt she was preaching to the choir, and I
wanted to point out that there WERE some readers who might be
offended by the direction her posts were going, many who were
NOT converted to the pro-life position, and could not sit by and
twiddle their thumbs while the increasingly pro-life messages
continued.  We naturally take a different tone when we know that
we are not dealing with a totally converted audience, and I felt
the posts assumed CHRISTIAns all agreed on the issue of abortion.

This is a bit longer than it should have been, so don't take it
too seriously.  I'm in a rambling mood tonight.

/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\
>   Darryl K. Johnson      (  "Good breeding consists in  <
>   Texas Christian         )  concealing how much we     <
>   University             (   think of ourselves, and    <
>   Fort Worth, Texas       )  how little we think of     <
>                          (   other persons." -- Twain   <
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
/ DJOHNSON@tcucvms.bitnet      DJOHNSON@gamma.is.tcu.edu  \
\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:06:59 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 4/16
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"God giveth to a man that is good in His sight wisdom and knowledge and joy;
but to the sinner He giveth travail" (Ecclesiastes 2:26).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Parable in Matt.
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:41:05 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Andrew Brennan <BRENNAAA@DUVM.BITNET> writes:

>      I think I have come up with an equivalent question though.

>      What was the real reason that the Pharisees had Jesus killed?

>      I hit a reference (about Pilate) that said 'envy.'  What
>   about Christ did they envy?  I can see that they had lost face,
>   but ENVY?

That is envy.  Envy is not 'I want what he has.'  It's 'I want what he has;
I know I can never get it; since I can't have it, I don't want anyone to
have it, even if it costs me.'  It governs much of our politics today ---
'soak the rich' isn't really going to get much money for the government,
first because there aren't enough rich, second because if we soak them
they'll have no incentive to get rich and there will be fewer of them.
'Soak the rich' is 'if I can't be rich, no one should be.'  Why Satan wants
to bring God down, though he can never bring himself up.  Excellent study of
it in Shakespeare's 'Othello.'  Iago is envious of Othello.  Another is
Herman Melville's 'Billy Budd.'  The Pharisees hated Jesus because He was
the Son of God, and because He was sinless, and they were neither.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:02:04 -0800
From:         dr798302 <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual and physical death
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.bitnet@TWNMOE10.EDU.TW

Reynold wrote --
  SOme protestand seems to be overly concerned with the Catholic Beleif in
peripheral matter (suchas that related to Virgin Mary) rather than those
that are the real problem.

I would like to take this place to clarify the Catholic Beliefs.  I was
baptized last year and I did receive some attacks such as Catholic did not
read the Bible or we worship Virgin Mary from some other denominations.

We Read the Bible.  In fact, no Catholic Church will baptize an adult unless
after a bible study around 9 months which review the bible from the Genesis to
the revelation.  Some deonomination did not spend that much time on the old
testment, but there are some beautiful things such as Job who suffer from a
lot of pains but never lose his love for God which also reveal the coming of
the new testment.  Long ago the Church probit people to read the bible and sell
some tickets in exchange for money.  But just as some leaders in other
protestant Church are ruined, so do the Catholic Church at that time.  But
The church learn from this experience to build a even stroner love for God.

We are not allowed to divorce.  Becuase the unity is made by God but not
by man, how can we separte it.  The church encourage people to know each
other more well before rushing to marriaage.

The father and mother are not allowed to marry.  They choose themself to follow
Paul who devoted himself to build the big family in the world not the small one
composed of the couple.

We do not worhsip Virgin Mary nor do we worship Pope.  Virgin is only a human
being but she, as can be read from the bible, is so brave and has many ways
worth us to follow.

We do not worhip idols. We thought that the idols in one's mind such as money
and fame are more serious than those made of stone or earth.  The idols in
the Church are used to call our memory to the early day of two thousands
years ago.

You will be pleased to read Cobercheff that, without the talks with Pope, he
would not have done some many changes in Russia and East Europe!

Allen Chen
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:04:37 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Yoga & Medicine

Darryl:  You are thinking of Hermes, the messenger of the Greek gods.  The
staff is called a caduceus.  Hermes was considered to be the god of cunning,
travel, and commerce.  Appropriate to the nature of the medical profession?
You make the call.
                      Love INC,
                                ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 11:57:56 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Broken Dreams

Thanks, that poem had real meaning for me.
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Via:      UK.AC.AFRC.JII; 16 APR 92 15:39:04 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:37:00 GMT
From:         HANNANT@JII.AFRC.AC.UK
Subject:      Jesus

All,
    I watched Franco Zefferellis Jesus of Nazereth last night, the last
part.  I have never seen it before.  After it had finished I just left
the group and cried.  Jesus suffered all that so I might live.  I don't
know wether they were tears of sorrow or happiness.
    Well my Christian Easter is upon me and I am quite excited. At last I
can really celebrate Easter for the right reason.
    God bless you all, Nigel.
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:07:00 EDT
From:         NWILSON@SMITH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Christian rock

Hey!

Can somebody give references: what Southern gospel group ommitted references
to "blood, sin, and wretchedness" (in Kerry's words)? I listen to taht
music, and to my knowledge, I haven't heard this practice in action.
In fact the only time I've heard the words to "Amazing Grace" changed is
when I was a schoolgirl in Catholic school, and we sang,
        "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
         That saved and set me free!"
Please tell me what S.G. group changed the words; I'm curious.

Nicole
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:00:06 CDT
From:         JRALLS@TRINITY.EDU
Subject:      Re :to Nigel from Bernice on 4/13/92

     Bernice,
What wonderful words of encouragement!  They were meant for Nigel but
they really helped me too, as I was having a bad day yesterday.  I've
found that when I'm down it's often because I've been _looking_ down,
away from the cross.  Thanks, Bernice, for reminding me of the great
hope that  I have.  Praise God!

jralls@trinity.edu            JoEllen
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Changing A Church (was twice-covered heads)
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:18:11 GMT


Kerry Stephenson writes:

> IMHO, if one wishes to change the Catholic church to the extent of ordaining
> women, permitting practicing homosexuals to be ordained, or allowing priests
> to marry (as Matthew Fox has suggested it should), one is really trying to
> make the Catholic church into something else more pleasing to the
> individual.

Unless I am misreading you, this is the single most judgemental thing I have
ever read from the Bitnet groups.  (It doesn't even come close to the flames
we get over on Usenet.)

Has it occurred to you that maybe there are Roman Catholics who want to change
the Church because they believe it is what God wants?  That they are trying to
make the RCC into something else which would be more pleasing to God?

Why do you assume that the only reason one would want to change the RCC is
selfish preference, instead of desire to do God's will?  On what grounds do
you make such a claim?


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
From: JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: for Saturday 11 April
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:59:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: ASUACAD.CHRISTIA%92041210015420
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X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

SATURDAY BEFORE PALM SUNDAY

O Lord, who in thy goodness dost bestow abundant graces on thine
elect: Look with favor, we entreat thee, upon those who in these
Lenten days are being prepared for Holy Baptism, and grant them the
help of thy protection; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth
and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and
ever.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:32:31 -0800
From:         dr798302 <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>

Hi, All --
  I heard from the news that a famous tennis player declaimed himself
afflicted with the AIDS.  Unlike magic Johnson who got it because of his
sexial relationship with a lot of girls,  he sounds far more innoccent
in that it is due to an accident.   I felt sorry for him and also for
the other innocents world around.  About five years ago, I heard from a
minister in the bible study that AIDS is a punishment from God.
Earlier Vicky posted a mail that sickenss is a result of sin either from
the fall of ADAM and EVEN or from our disobedience in God's commandment.
But should these innocents, some of whom are very good Christians,
deserves those pains and the lost of the right living in this beautiful
world because others sin?

Allen W. Chen
.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 05:13:59 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      ABORTION: Spec.legal

Kerry,

You wrote, "By the way, in case you were not aware of it (many people
are not), Roe v. Wade made it illegal for any state to interfere with
a woman's desire to have an abortion, and declared abortion legal
(under certain restrictions) throughout all nine months of
pregnancy."  Those "certain restrictions" are, in fact, meaningless.
The Court legalized abortion on demand for the full nine months of
pregnancy.  Roe v. Wade says that the states may restrict abortion
during the last trimester (approximately) unless the abortion is
necessary to protect the health of the mother.  This sounds like it
permits restrictions, but in fact it does not.  The companion deci-
sion Doe v. Bolton says that the word "health" must be interpreted
broadly to include physical, mental, and economic/sociological
health.  (That is not an exact quote, but a close paraphrase.)  The
Court also explicitly overturned all requirements that an abortion be
approved by any kind of review board.  The practical result is that a
woman who wants an abortion need find only one doctor, the abortion-
ist himself, who will say that the abortion is necessary to preserve
the mother's health--defined in this meaninglessly broad sense--to
evade any restrictions.

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:18:54 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Abortion 2

Subject: Abortion 2

That's what I get for trying to remember the story. Linda told me there have
been 2 miscarriages. One would have been 8 if he/she had been carried to
term. I had forgotten all about this one. I guess husbands are like that.

Though the sex was never determined of either, tests on the second miscarriage
said there was a good possibility that it might have again been twins. I
almost got teary eyed. All I need is another set of twins, right?

Just asking Linda brought tears to her eyes. I hated to remind her. When I
mentioned about other women throwing their children away when Linda would
give anything to have hers that were "lost", it didn't make matters any
better. Sometimes I wonder if a good husband would do this, but as far as
I know, she plans on keeping me.

Sorry for the inaccuracies. I probably have some on Jackie's story, but
the story should be good for the most part. I could call and get all the
details, but then it might degrade into a "airing dirty laundry", and all
I wanted was an example of "You can get pregnant (up to 3 times) and still
make it." type story. Jackie is a Christian when she needs God, and goes
her merry way when things are fine. This is "good" in a sense in that it
makes her story a good one even if a person is not a Christian.

I love my CHRISTIA family. Sorry.

Maks
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:59:42 CDT
From:         Carol Slingo <slingo@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Yoga & Medicine
              8, 92 11:01 am

>
> >Kerry,
> >Do you know who distributes the film "Gods of the New Age"? (or the video)
> >What do you think of it? (I saw part of it, some years ago--my memory is
> >faulty)
> >Carol Slingo
>
> Carol:
>
> I also saw this tape and have seen it advertised lately.  I thought it
> was put out by Peter LaLonde of The Omega Letter and The Christian
> World Report, but I'm not sure.
>
>                                         Liz
>

It's me again.  I asked Kerry because she works in a bookstore.  I would be
happy to hear anybody's opinion of the film, as well.  Thank you.
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:29:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

From: Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
This being the case, is your position a defence of extramarital sexual
relations (a sin, considering this is a Christian list and discussion),
or is there some other position that we're completely missing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
There were Christians who were horrified at the use of anesthetics
during birth, because the woman HAD to have the baby while suffering
painfully.  The Bible said so.

There were Christians who tried to ban lightning rods and umbrellas
when they were invented, because they were "being used to thwart the
will of God".

IMO, many Christians object to removing ANY of the physical bad things
resulting from a sin.  By this reasoning, we should forbid the
adoption of the babies of single mothers, since this removes them
from the "punishment" of raising the child they produced from a
sinful union.  We should not allow any cardiac care for fat people,
since they are only receiving their just punishment for the deadly
sin of gluttony.

In some cases, I feel extramarital relations are permissable.  If
that was the topic under discussion, I would explain in more detail.

The "anti-choice" side of the condom argument seems to say that
humans are not animals, but oddly enough, when given the choice
between chastity and using condoms during sex, we'll pick the
sex every time.  An odd behavior for non-animals, don't you think?

You said when married, STDs are not an issue.  I say, if you are
chaste, CONDOMS are not an issue, and if you AREN'T chaste, condoms
are better than nothing.  Why this drive to prevent the sexually
active from ANY protection?  Instead of trying to play up the
advantages of chastity, it would seem that many have chosen to
denigrate safe sex: an example of dimming someone else's candle
to make your own seem brighter.

Darryl at TCU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jmb5b@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (John M. Bozeman)
Subject: Re: Feminist theology/little god movement
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:02:20 GMT

In article <920411164000.20202743@ASUCP1.LA.ASU.EDU> DRAKE@ASUCP1.LA.ASU.EDU writes:
>[...]
>>And, to be even-handed about it, I thought some of you might be interested in
>>this, from a speech on self-esteem (what else?) by Robert Schuller:
>>
>>  "We will never truly understand the nature and character of our relationship
>>    to God until we can comfortably say, 'Our Father, which art in heaven,
>>    hallowed be _my_ name" (emphasis original).
>
>         I read a quote attributed to Robert Schuller once that shocked me.
>         He was said to have claimed that he though the greatest crime
>         commited by christianity was emphasising the sinfulness of humanity.
>         [This quote was found in _The Seduction of Christianity_, so you can
>         make your own judgement as to its dependability.]
>
Robert Schuller has always struck me as a little too humanist for my
tastes, and this quote sounds like something he'd say, but I
got kind of confused a few months ago when I saw him on the 700 Club
and he was talking about how most people get mad at him for not 
talking about human sinfulness.  He responded by saying he was
writing (or just wrote?) a book about that, and that humans were indeed
sinful and talking about the problems of evil and such.  Has anybody
else heard this, or read this book (I can't remember the title).
It would be interesting to see what Schuller is now sayi ng about this subject,
or if he has really changed at all.

In Christ,
Michelle Carpick


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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:45:53 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      First posting

HE IS RISEN

I think that was a very right thing to say!

HE IS RISEN INDEED
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