From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice Challenge  (WAS THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS)
Keywords: From: decay@
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:47:50 GMT


In article <1992Aug28.203625.21740@ncsu.edu> dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
#In article <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu> 
#garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
##
##dsh@csl36h.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

### You miss the point Ms. Garvin.  When you vigorously denounce the 
### extremists on the pro-life side and try to ignore the extremists 
### on the pro-choice side such as Mr. Loomis, it makes you look a 
### little hypocritical.  
#
## No, you miss the point, Holtsinger.  Did you denounce Buchanan's
## speech or didn't you?
#
#No, I didn't see Buchanan's speech.  But then again, I haven't
#denounced any of the extremists in the Democratic party.  

I'm sure that someone will be kind enough to repost one of
your many articles about the Democratic party in general
and Bill Clinton in particular supporting "abortion on 
demand throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy."
Have we all been mistaken in believing that you disapprove
of "abortion on demand throughout the entire nine months
of pregnancy?"  Were we to take the following statement
of yours as praise?

"It appears that the radical pro-abortionists in the Democratic party 
have forced Mr. Clinton to embrace a minority-held position. "
Doug Holtsinger,  <1992Aug18.140511.17562@ncsu.edu>

To quote myself, you're a tiresome liar, DOD.

### I'm glad you can finally acknowledge the 
### existence of extremists on the pro-choice side, even though I had 
### to give you a little prodding.  
#
## Don't be so quick to take the credit, DOD.  I responded to
## Steve Novak.  Do you think that you're Steve Novak now?
#
#No, whatever gave you that idea?  

You assume that your "prodding" motivated my post.  I responded
to Steve.  

#I just mentioned that I  
#was glad to see you denounce the extremists on your side for a
#change, instead of constantly attacking the pro-life extremists.  

"I am not "pro-life", and I don't normally express substantial disagreement 
with pro-lifers in my posts because I know pro-aborts like you will gloat 
over it.  I do sometimes send e-mail to pro-lifers when I disagree with 
their views."

Doug Holtsinger, <1992Aug18.171231.1162@ncsu.edu>

Nice little display of hypocrisy, Holtsinger.  In fact, it's
one of the best examples of hypocrisy I've ever seen.

By the way, you don't define my "side," Holtsinger.  I know 
that you want to control everything, but some things are 
beyond your control.  I don't recall "denouncing" anyone, 
either.  

#That's good work, keep it up. 

Maybe you'll want to withdraw this, given that you are praising
me for an event that occurred only within your vivid imagination.

## I don't call Loomis "an extremist on the pro-choice side,"
## because of his feelings about euthanasia or infanticide,
## by the way.  "Pro-choice" generally refers to the opinion
## that the abortion decision should be left up to the pregnant
## woman.  It has nothing to do with euthanasia or infanticide.

##I referred to Steve as an extremist because he is not willing
##to compromise away a woman's right to choose.  I share his
##feelings.  (I'm also an extremist on other issues - why do
##you think that being an extremist is bad?)

#Infanticide, euthanasia, and abortion are related issues because
#they involve the killing of human beings. 

Well, that's a lovely, non-responsive comment.

#Loomis holds extreme positions on issues other than abortion, but then 
#I've seen you denounce pro-life extremists for their positions on issues
#like contraceptives and homosexuality.  If infanticide and euthanasia
#are not related to abortion, then certainly homosexuality and 
#contraceptives aren't related to abortion either.  

That's true, DOD, and if you could read, you'd know that
I have criticized people who support legal abortion for *their*
stands on other issues, too.  Unfortunately, you don't
seem to be willing to publicly criticize any of your fellow
pro-forcers.  May I quote you again?

"I am not "pro-life", and I don't normally express substantial disagreement 
with pro-lifers in my posts because I know pro-aborts like you will gloat 
over it.  I do sometimes send e-mail to pro-lifers when I disagree with 
their views."

Doug Holtsinger, <1992Aug18.171231.1162@ncsu.edu>


### I hope to see you continue to acknowledge the extremists on the 
### pro-choice side.  Now, here's your chance to do just that:
###
###      "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
### that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
### we want to be precise)..."
###   -- Gloria Feldt,
###      chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona
#
## I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement.  Why 
#does Judaism bother you so?
#
#That's going to make a lovely quote. 

I repeat, why does Judaism bother you so?


Susan










Xref: sparky talk.abortion:34748 talk.religion.misc:15533