From: kuch@reed.edu (Jerry Kuch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate, an I an ideali
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:50:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep3.215047.12850
Organization: Wilbur the Weasel's Wonderful World of Wallpaper

In article <1992Sep3.153516.42760@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>In article <BtxoCu.In4@starnine.com>, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug27.161036.384@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>>In article <BtM61A.Bs@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>>
>>>OS/2 itself is solid.  There are bugs in the WPS, but the WPS is brand new
>>>software -- and very sophisticated software at that.
>> 
>> That's why it has bugs?  Because it's s-o-o-o sophisticated?
>
>> Sure Jerry, you can just stand there and repeat it over and over...
>
>O.K.  Device independent graphics, virtual memory, ability to run a 
>virtual machine running MS-DOS, DR-DOS, or most any real mode operating
>system, compatible with 28,000 DOS apps, 4-5,000 Windows apps, and 
>1-2,000 OS/2 apps (numbers are approximate) plus anyting that runs under
>a real mode operating system booted in a virtual machine, every process
>runs in its own memory address space--protects the apps from each other,
>30 day money back guarantee, etc.  I could go on.

Wow, that's a pretty impressive list of operating system features.  So
how many megabytes of space is taken up in order to provide the 30 day
money back guarantee?  :-)

>>>How much for one of those BridgeBoards?  What's on it, a 286?  If you think
>>>a BridgeBoard is comparable to having a PC, you're sadly mistaken.
>> 
>> I know... with the 386 BB from C=, you also have the AMiga!
>> You're right!  A PC can't compare!
>> 
>
>Again, how much for a 386 BB?  Are they shipping?  What chip is on it?
>A dx, sx, 20mHz, etc.?  
>
>>>>
>>>>Yeah.  I have both 2.04 AND 1.3 installed on my hard disk in less than
>>>>8 meg (my 2.04 partition is 6 meg and has 3 meg free).
>>>>
>>>>From what I understand, OS/2 needs something over 30 meg, minimum?
>>>>'Zat right?
>>>>
>>>
>>>'Zat's wrong.
>> 
>> Well, Jerry, what's the right number? 28Meg? 25Meg?  Decline to comment?
>
>It is wrong.  It can take up 17 megs for just OS/2 compatibility.  At 
>work, with OS/2 fully installed, it takes 27 megs.  Anyway, you are 
>getting two operating systems, and an operating environment (Windows),
>plus Adobe Type Manager 2.0.  You are also getting more features.  If 
>you don't want the features, you can nix them off your hard disk.
>
>> 
>>>No video support out of the box?!  What box?
>>>Find me a clone vendor that doeesn't sell complete systems.
>> 
>> Yeah.  All different.  Show me 2 vendors that sell the SAME system?
>
>Gateway, High Definition, Acma, and hundreds of others will sell you
>the same system configuration.  They may have peripherals made by 
>different companies, but they operate the same.  If you want to be
>locked into just a few choices and a few prices for a computer, fine.
>I prefer competition to drive the price down.  And please don't
>spout off about incompatibilities, because I have had no problems.
>
>> 
>>>
>>>Kludged in?!  You mean, kind of like your built-in flicker-fixer, Mike?
>> 
>> No, I don't mean factory-installed, present-in-every-system features.
>> BTW, the interlace of the AMiga is a GOOD THING.  It's one of the
>> reasons the Amiga is so much better at video that Intel trash.
>> (Seen Pournelle's latest column?  Even HE admits how superior
>> the Amiga is for creating multi-media!).
>> 
>> The fact that some systems flicker simply means their owners
>> can have high-quality tools at less cost.  MY system is
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> rock-solid.  Just like Amiga VS. PC prices...you get what
>> you pay for!
>
>What?  You totally lost me.  Interlace is good?  You like going blind?
>(And by the way, Pournelle is no authority on anyting--my opinion as
>well as the opinion of many others (source:  postings on usenet))
>
>So flickering is a sign of high quality?  Sure it means low cost, but
>high quality?  What are you saying?  

The flicker is a sign of NTSC compatible video.  If you need to do NTSC
output, you need that flicker.  For a general purpose desktop system it's
not desirable though.

>My system's display is flicker free because it is noninterlaced.  
>1024x768x256 colors at 70 Hz refresh rate.  That is higher quality
>than a flickering 43 Hz interlaced display.  
>
>Concerning prices.  PC's are not lower in price because they lack
>quality.  They are lower in price due to market competition.  
>Commodore does not have to worry about that.  They can set their
>prices at whatever they want.
>
>> 
>> Didn't have much to say about PC's until I started working with them
>> about a year ago.  Since then... I have seen no elegance...nothing
>> of "cool design"...absolutely NOTHING to endear me to the machine in
>> any way.  In fact, quite the opposite (obviously).  It reminds me
>> of that Chevy Vega I had years ago... I feel damn lucky when I get it
>> to do what I want!
>> 
>> 8-character filenames & single-letter drives...tsk, tsk.
>> 
>> Face it... they're garbage!
>
>You have not make the distintion between hardware and software.
>8 character filenames are gone in OS/2.  It is not a limit of
>the hardware.  Before you bash PC's, you should:
>
>1)  Make sure you know what you're talking about or your posts will
>    degenerate into threads of correction after correction.
>    I'm not saying you don't entirely know what you are talking
>    about, just there are some things that are in error.
>
>2)  Be a bit more rational.  Lose the emotion bit.  Then you won't
>    start a flame thread, instead you'll start an informative thread
>    about the differences between Amigas and PC's.
>
>3)  If you have to bash the PC, at least specify if you are bashing
>    the hardware aspect or the software aspect.
>
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Charles A. Thompson               |  thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
>|  University of Kansas              |  thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
>|  _Avid_ SkiBum                     |  OS/2 2.0 is for YOU!!!               |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Look for Recipe Pro(tm), an interactive recipe database, coming soon...   |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Jerry Kuch (t-gerldk@microsoft.com) | "Sic Gorgianus Allos Subjectatus Nunc."
  "I was wrong to play God.  Life is precious, not a thing to be toyed with.
   Now take out that brain and flush it down the toilet." - Montgomery Burns
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc