HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pds@lemming.webo.dg.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: Banned Computer Material 1992
Date: 02 Oct 92 14:40:39 GMT
Distribution: na
	<1992Oct1.134706.25819@eff.org> <kraussW.717955328@batman>
Organization: NSDD/ONSD, Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

[] Regarding Re: Banned Computer Material 1992;
[] kraussW@moravian.edu (Bill Krauss - SysAdm) writes:

    bk> In <1992Oct1.134706.25819@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M.
    bk> Kadie) writes:

    >The right to bare arms is not (usually) part of academic freedom.

    bk> Why not?  If Freedom of Speech and Right to Keep and Bare Arms
    bk> are both guaranteed how can we discount one just because it is
    bk> not frequently considered?

Jeez, things have sure changed in the few years since I was in
college; we even had the Right to Bare Chests (for the men at least)
and the Right to Bare Legs!  And no one thought twice about it!
Amazing!

(I know, I know, but I couldn't resist :)
--

                                                                paul
-----
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
| Paul D. Smith                          |    paul_smith@dg.com    |
| Data General Corp.                     | pds@lemming.webo.dg.com |
| Network Systems Development Division   |                         |
| Open Network Systems Development       |   "Pretty Damn S..."    |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Subject: Re: SURVEY: Intervisitation Policy at YOUR school?
Keywords: As if anyone reads them...
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date:  5 Oct 92 00:53:17 GMT

sfadden@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (Steve Fadden) writes:

>In article <".4-Oct-92.15:08:29.EDT".*.James_S._Bright.wbst129@Xerox.com>, 
>JBright.Wbst129@xerox.com writes...

>>Well, I'd like to introduce my school -- Virginia Tech, whose board
>>of directors are super-conservative. Okay, the deal is that on the
>>weeknights (in most Halls) you can have someone over until 2:00 in
>>the morning. After that,

>(etc. etc.)

>>Stanford is private (correct, no?) while New Mexico State University
>>(original poster's school) and Va Tech are not. That usually has
>>something to do with it too.

>What exactly do you mean by a school's being private/public having
>"something to do with it" -- are you implying that some schools have
>more/less strict visitation policies, based on their funding?

>If so, I'd like to disagree, to a point.  Private schools are influenced by 
>their main contributors, and by the wishes of those individuals who have since
>passed away, but left explicit "rules" embedded in their granted monies. 

>Public schools are funded primarily with public funds, and would thus be 
>governed accordingly.  

>At least, this is my impression; am I off-track?

I would agree with this.  Most of the schools on the West Coast that I
am familiar with, public or private, have no visitation policies.
I'm sure UC Berkeley has no such policy, nor does the University of
Washington.  I can't speak so much for other schools, but I've never
heard of one on the West Coast.

My guess is that this sort of thing is more common in the more
conservative midwestern and eastern states, as well as the less
populated states in the West (such as New Mexico).  It depends on the
social norms in the area.

Adam Elman
aelman@cs.stanford.edu
From: wendtr@newton.hartwick.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: London Semester
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:10:43 -0500
Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE

Hey! I just got accepted to the London Semester Program through Beaver College.
If anyone has any comments on the program or know of someone who has gone
I'd like to know so I could get some info. Thanks!!
                           Raquelita
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: ghica@fig.citib.com (Renato Ghica)
Subject: e-mail for University of Baltimore
Originator: ghica@duck
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:10:18 GMT




I didn't see a listing for U. of Balt. in the lastest sites
postings. Does anyone have the site name?

prethanks.

-rg
-- 

"I am a brain, Watson."
"These views are my own. / Mail me or Flame me"
From: be549@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robin Coose)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: C.S. Dept Email Address Wanted-- II --
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:16:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Sorry, there is a mistake about my email address:
  be549@cleveland.freenet.edu

Thanx a lot.

Rob
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Academic Gun Rights 1992 (was Re: Banned Computer Material 1992)
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:50:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.174934.2581@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>>Why not?  If Freedom of Speech and Right to Keep and Bare Arms are
>>both guaranteed how can we discount one just because it is not
>>frequently considered?

>I assume you mean guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. As far as I know,
>the right to keep arms, say in a univeristy office, are not guarenteed
>by any statements of academic freedom. Do you really think
>it should be?
>
>- Carl


Not neccessarily, but if i had a nice gun behind my desk here at the library
i'd probably get fewer stupid questions.....

r


Xref: sparky soc.college:4025 sci.econ:7882
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ
Subject: Re: the MIT anti-trust case
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:53:50 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <1992Sep29.153257.12275@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell) writes:

>Tuition hasn't been changed since the Overlap Group was disbanded, so
>I don't know what you're talking about.  We'll see when colleges set
>their tuitions in March or April whether the price rise is 10% or 4%.

Actually we will need to wait three to four years to see if a new trend
occurs.  Iwould suspect that the first year out, the Overlap Group
will still act as if the pact were in force.  Beaurocratic inertia and
all that.  It will take several financial cycles before the strain of
individual universities breaking rank starts to show up.

-- 
Mark
My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: mhauser@courtney.acns.nwu.edu (Marc Hauser)
Subject: Looking for three addresses....
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:14:04 GMT

Hi there.  I am looking for the following server names so I can find  
people at other schools.  They are neither on the FAQ of email addresses,  
nor can they be found by doing an nslookup.  Please help.

Wright State Univ.
Air Force Academy

Thank you.  Email or a post would be terrific.

Marc Hauser
mhauser@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
mhauser@courtney.acns.nwu.edu (NeXTMail)
DSS, ACNS Networking of Northwestern Univ., and lots more....


Xref: sparky soc.college:4008 sci.econ:7861
From: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ
Subject: Re: the MIT anti-trust case
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:09:58 GMT
Reply-To: pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technologies, Mt. View, California.

In article <1992Sep28.203915.541@midway.uchicago.edu>,
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell) writes:
|> Followups to sci.econ and soc.college.
|> 
|> In article <1992Sep28.192027.24969@Princeton.EDU>
egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Edward G. Nilges) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep28.170558.4199@island.COM> guido@island.COM
(Guido Marx) writes:
|> >>Universities aren't engaged in trade ???  Unless I am mistaken, most
|> >>universities allow people to exchange money (aka tuition) for 
|> >>services (aka education).  That sounds like TRADE to me.  In fact,
|> >>I don't know how else you could describe what they do. 
|> >
|> >.....  In real trade and real business,
|> >the customer is always right (and in cases of doubt refer back to the
|> >first rule.)  In education, the "customer" isn't always right.
|> >Universities are engaged in a separate and distinct category of activity
|> >from trade.
|> 

In 'real' business the 'customer is always right' is a cliche that has
much merit, but not of necessity.  Many times the customer is very wrong;
and smart, honest business people will say so, whenever they are clearly
of that opinion.  It is not wise, in my opinion, to berate or hurt yourself
or your employees when you have acted with integrity.  

"Customers" of both business and colleges have the opportunity to 
complain and seek change from the institution which may or may not change
as a result of the complaint.  In both cases, the dissatisfied customer
is free to take his business elsewhere.

Paul Collacchi
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kraussW@moravian.edu (Bill Krauss - SysAdm)
Subject: Re: Academic Gun Rights 1992 (was Re: Banned Computer Material 1992)
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:09:18 EDT

In <1992Oct1.174934.2581@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>I assume you mean guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. As far as I know,
>the right to keep arms, say in a univeristy office, are not guarenteed
>by any statements of academic freedom. Do you really think
>it should be?

No, not necessarily... I just think it's interesting that we champion the
right of having Freedom of Speech, and insist there be no restrictions and
other rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights are not looked at as something
that should be unrestricted... (I'm not advocating policies that allow
students to have guns on campus. Just think it's interesting.)

Context Change...

I do appreciate the discussion that we are able to share here...  I know that
my outlook on Academic Freedom has changed since reading this group...
-- 

						Bill Krauss

 /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*\
 | William F. Krauss III | Moravian College, Comp Sci Dept, Bethlehem, PA   |
 | Computer Science Dept | INTERNET  -> kraussW@moravian.edu        18018   |
 | System Administrator  | UUCP   -> ...!rutgers!lafcol!batman!kraussW      |
 | Phone - 215-861-1441  | <<<<<<<<<<<<< Love God! Hate Sin! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
 \*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: Hazing
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:38:43 GMT

just a note on my two hazing postings, 
the excerpts I printed were not my own. They were ALL
responses to my poll. I am not in a fraternity nor
did I make any of the responses up. I've gotten a few
emails that seem to think I'm in a fraternity (one even
thought that I (Brian) was in a sorority) so I just
wanted to clear that up. It was not done in a hostile
manner as one has suggested. I was simply posing a question
and trying to get different answers.
============================================================================
BRI FARENELL				"If you don't vote, you don't count!"
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU     
CLARKSON '95
A politically incorrect, pro-life, liberal, card-carrying member of the ACLU.
===========================================================================
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."   --Salvor Hardin


Xref: sparky soc.college:4148 comp.org.eff.talk:6283 comp.admin.policy:1230 alt.censorship:7870 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3072
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Newsgroups: soc.college,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: Banned Computer Material 1992
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:36:56 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.

In article <14743@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:
>>Certainly, all nations which are part of the United Nations must have
>>accepted that document--so in an abstract, legal sense, they have
>>freely accepted the responsibility to protect free expression rights.
>
>  There is also (in the UN charter, I think) a rule that says that member 
>nations should ban racist orgainzations (it is usually used as an argument in
>political discussions about the (lack of) merits a law that can ban 
>organizations depending on their views. The proponents of such laws always
>claim that Sweden is the only country that hasn't got such a law, believe that
>those who may:).
>
>  If this is true, it means that two UN rules directly contradict eachother.

Well, if the UN has such a rule, it is not part of the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights.  There are several provisions that protect the right to be
free from discrimination by the UN and by individual governments--but that's
a far cry from a rule banning racist organizations...


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
From: db@ligea.nosc.mil (db)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Info on UC schools?
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:40:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego, CA
Originator: db@ligea

Hello.  I am a senior in high school who should be starting her college 
applications real soon.  I live in San Diego and I'd really appreciate any info on such UC schools as Berkeley, Riverside, 
Irvine, Santa Barbara, and San Diego.  Thanks!

Deborah Boggs
db@ligea.nosc.mil
From: be549@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robin Coose)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: C.S. Dept Email Address Wanted...
Date: 6 Oct 92 06:56:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hi, I am looking for a list of email address of Computer Sci.
Dept in those most famous universities.  I saw it from the USENET
last year.  If someone has the llist, please send me via email at:
 be549@freenet.cleveland.edu
Thanx a lot.

Rob
####
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ,misc.legal,alt.politics.correct
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Pet Peeves, The Sequel
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:56:56 GMT

lchavas@CSD4.CSD.UWM.EDU (Linda Catherine Havas) writes:
>An amendment to my "crab session" of last week...
>
>Don't you just hate professors who run overtime, as if their class
>is more important than every other one on campus!! 

No, but I can't stand students who gripe about things that they don't
have to put up with.

If you have a class after that one, and the prof is consistently late
at finishing, there are a couple of avenues that you can take.

1. Get up and leave when the time is up.  If the prof says something
   like "I'll be finished in a minute", simply say "I'm sorry, but I have
   a class that I have to go to now, and I'll be late if I don't leave
   immediately."

2. Talk to the prof at the beginning of class about the problem.

3. If that doesn't work, go a bit higher.

It's usually only a problem if they give out assignments at the end.  If
that is the case, go to them and say "I'd appreciate it if you'd give us
the assignment early if you are planning on running over, since I have
to leave on time."  Again, if it doesn't work, a visit to the department
head will.

Don't be afraid of your professors.  You have no obligation to be sitting
in that class.  You are paying the professor to be there, s/he's the one
with the obligation.

	Darrin
-- 

mdchaney@iubacs mdchaney@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu mdchaney@rose.ucs.indiana.edu

"It's a marvel of vegetable containment..."
Xref: sparky soc.college:4002 sci.econ:7850
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ
Subject: Is education a business? (was: the MIT anti-trust case) [includes political raving]
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:35:07 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Sep28.203915.541@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Followups to sci.econ and soc.college.
>
>In article <1992Sep28.192027.24969@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Edward G. Nilges) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>>Try "education."  Putting universities in the same category (1)
>>discourages the notion of giving scholarships to anyone and (2) places
>>the student in the cutomer's position.  In real trade and real business,
>>the customer is always right (and in cases of doubt refer back to the
>>first rule.)  In education, the "customer" isn't always right.
>>Universities are engaged in a separate and distinct category of activity
>>from trade.
>
>I'll tell my university that the next time they send me a bill.
			.
			.
			.
The conflict is more radical than Mr. Frank's
sarcasm, as I'm sure he and other Posnerians
(?) realize.  One of the tasks of the science
of economics as it's generally recognized in
the modern world is to abstract away such
idealism as Mr. Nilges' categories represent.
While well-meaning people wince when Gary
Becker analyzes family dynamics in terms of
resource constraints, or an auditor traces
what the business of the United Way *truly*
is, our sensitivities cannot diminish the
explanatory power of economics.

This power has consequences.  Politically, a
(sometimes unconscious) favorite gambit of
those who would restrict some activity is
first to define it as "commercial".  Thus
most USA citizens contentedly regard "free
speech" as an absolute--except when that
speech is commercial.  The distinction might
be useful, but I claim it is grossly overdone
and, most dangerous, largely unexamined.

Economics is not entirely dismal, though.
When the stewards of universities make explicit
their economic functions, they make greater
efficiencies possible.  Better that they be
honest and precise about the institutions'
goals, and pursue them with all the vigor that
rationality allows, then that they muddle
along with vague "do-goodism" in mind.  It
is *particularly* timely for everyone to
realize that a university which doesn't satisfy
its customers deserves to die.

Economics in this sense does not, of course,
speak to human ends, only means.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: soc.college,sci.econ
From: danlip@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel Adam Lipofsky)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Flame Wars
Followup-To: alt.flame
Date: 30 Sep 1992 04:00:55 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

In article <9209291545.AA20018@csd4.csd.uwm.edu> lchavas@CSD4.CSD.UWM.EDU (Linda Catherine Havas) writes:
>So....when does the fun start? With all due respect, it seems that
>this newsgroup has been pretty damned boring lately. I can't read
>any more "does anyone know the email address of...." posts.
>

Why, that's the stupidest, most idiotic, assinine post I have ever ...

Opps.  Sorry.  Nevermind.

--dl
-- 
"The calender of the Theocracy of Muntab counts down, not up.  No-one knows
why, but it might not be a good idea to hang around and find out."
	--Terry Pratchett, _Wyrd_Sisters_
From: jmartin@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason J Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: I'm looking for someone
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:50:17 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I'm looking for a person who attends Cal Poly.  His name is Rodney Tao.  E-mail me if you know his address, or if you're watching Rodney, you E-mail me.  My address is "jmartin@eniac.seas.upenn.edu"  


Sorry to interupt this newsgroup, you may continue about your business.




					Jason Martin



---
  "jmartin@eniac.seas.upenn.edu"


  "I feel like destroying a MAC"
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: commuting
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:26:36 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

I'm the president of the commuter-student organization at
Emory, which is, aside from being a finishing school for the
plutocracy :-), extremely oriented toward on-campus life.
For example, in the past (before we got organized), commuter
freshman were completely left out of orientation, etc.

But all that's changing now -- we're demanding our rights!
I'm interested in knowing how other private universities
that are largely residential deal with their commuting
students.

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: soc.college.gradinfo
From: cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang)
Subject: Re: Is a double major possible in grad school?
Reply-To: cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 02:09:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.202056.10244@netcom.com>
adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams) writes:

>	Depends on the institution. I'm doing a double in Criminal Justice
>and Psychology (as an alternative to a concentration in Forensic
>Psychology), and I know a number of individuals who are doing concentrations
>in similar areas (Psych/Law, Psych/Medicine, CJ/Law, Psych/Biology, Poli
>Sci/Law, etc.). I'm sure there are any number of individuals in other fields
>who are pursuing similar objectives. Many institutions which are based on
>the Oxford model encourage cross disciplinary studies - even some
>traditional schools (i.e., Michigan State University) have cross
>disciplinary graduate programs.

It seems like all these pairs are very much related to each other.
How about totally unrelated fields, like CS and music?  Would this be
possible at all -- doing a Ph.D. in CS and D.M.A. in music concurrently
(for someone who already has a master's in music)?

-Charles


*** Om Ma-Ni Pad-Me Hung *** | "Hey, Charles, have you been 'waiting' all
============================ |  your life?" -- Thao D. "the creature" Vo
   Charles Wei-Ting Tang     | ===========================================
cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu  | 201 W.72nd St.,#8J, NYC 10023  212/580-5609
From: mef@june.cs.washington.edu (Marc Fiuczynski)
Newsgroups: soc.college.gradinfo
Subject: Re: EE grad school mailing list
Date: 26 Sep 92 07:21:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science

As for now I don't think one exists... I've been working on one, however, do to lack of EE
department cooperation, the list is mighty small, and I even doubt that the ones I have now
are even up-to-date.

Thus, my suggestion is for EE to switch over to the friendly side of CS. :) OK, just kidding...
and please no 1000 follow-up flame war.  

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO SEND YOU THE EE EMAIL LIST I AM WORKING ON.  IT IS
NOT DONE WAS STARTED FROM A IEEE LIST THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. 
THUS, I'm still trying to find out about the legality of releasing it.  This list was sent to me
from someone else, and all I know is that it was supposed to be published in one of the late
IEEE publications for students regarding graduate school.  As a warning, many of the 
addresses in that list are simply invalid, or out of date.  

Sincerely,

Marc E. Fiuczynski
Newsgroups: soc.college.gradinfo