HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sherrianne M. Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Well, here goes...
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:44:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.keRkAai00WBKQ4aUB8
	<3556@cs.rit.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hello, Simon!  *grin*

Where are you in Pennsylvania?  I'm stuck here in Pittsburgh...

*hug* *nibble*
sher
sj1s@andrew.cmu.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Being bi means that     |
you have the possibility | B0 f-- w c+ g k+ s+ p
of loving anyone."  --me |
From: dente@els.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Hetero/bi/homophobia (Was: Lesbian denial)
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:30:52 GMT
Reply-To: dente@els.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Manchester

In article <1992Jul27.213429.14628@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>, cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
[A very good point about the non-equivalence of homophobia and heterophobia]

|> In <1992Jul27.162224.6331@HQ.Ileaf.COM>
|> mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517) writes:

|> >If you try and strictly define yourself into a rigid little
|> >box, you're destined for trouble.  That's why I feel bi's have it more
|> >together - accepting and acknowledging whatever feelings come along.
|> 
|> Is it just me or does anybody else find this to be bisupremist?

Yes, I find this bisupremist, but then I find it very difficult not to
adopt a bisupremist attitude much of the time.

When I'm getting shit (directly or indirectly) from a homophobe, I
usually find that just saying to myself "it's okay, I'm just as good
as anyone else" just isn't enough - instead I find myself deriding the
'phobe for being so short-sighted as to think that sex with a motos is
the only thing worthwhile, whereas I have the freedom to look at the
person rather than just their gender.

Now, repeat that paragraph, substituting "biphobe" for "homophobe",
and "motss" for "motos", and the two paragraphs together make a
succinct statement of bisupremism.

Now I don't really believe that monosexuals "look at just [the]
gender" of a prospective partner - considerations of personality are
going to be just as important as they are for bisexuals, but, as I
said, this is an anti-(mental) damage screen which is quick and easy
to put up in the face of {homo|bi}phobia.  If I'm completely honest, I
do still think that many monosexuals are somewhat short-sighted in
limiting themselves to one gender.

Please accept this for what it is - an honest statement of feelings, and invitation to discuss them - not an attack on monosexuals, or an invitation
to flame.

Colin

-- 
  Colin Dente                     | JANET: dente@uk.ac.manchester
  Manchester Computing Centre     | ARPA:  dente@manchester.ac.uk
  University of Manchester, UK    | UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ukc!manchester!dente
   ... Blatantly Bisexual ...     | B3/4 f+ c g+(+) k(+) r s
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig)
Subject: Re: Touching and the Party
Keywords: ucbu safe-space bi-space
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:15:07 GMT

Albert Lunde writes
> UCBU may not generally go as far as the Edin<mumble> party, but we
> have come close at times (I'm curious to hear orc's comparison.)

I feel compelled (probably by some Freudian neurosis) to point out that
the times Albert is referring to are not "official" UCBU [U. of Chicago
Bisexual Union] events, but a private parties to which all of UCBU, as
well as other folks, were invited.

For those folks lucky enough to come bi and make it to a UCBU meeting
(we meet almost every Thursday night on campus), you'll find a safe
space as well as a bi space.  And lots of friendly folks, of course.  :)

> Generally UCBU folk seem fairly free with hugs and other light touch.

For platonic hugs, yes, I'd say that's true about most of us.

> My initial reaction to coming to UCBU were "hugging this group is more
> definite than dating some people"

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.  Hurm.  Could you clarify?
 
> I don't want to go back to "sitting on my hands" and I want to respect
> people's limits.  The distinction between being "friendly" and "sexual"
> is for me more a matter of degree than kind.

For most folks, I think, it's a qualitative difference rather than a
quantitative.  It's that way for me.  So sometimes it's hard to tell the
other person's intention, or how they're interpreting your reaction.

> I'm not sure of the best way to improve communication,
> but I'd rather communicate more than just draw back in a shell.

Definitely a good plan.  Consider this communication.  :)

Much love and hugs....
--
Cliff Winnig     			 -------_
cliff@uchicago.edu		          \ hi //
or, for mail with NeXT attachments:        \  //
grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu	            \//
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi Edinburgh (was Re: Another newcomer...)
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:21:11 GMT

sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:

>cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

>>Back to _Fried Green Tomatoes_... Ruth was married at one stage in the
>>film. So was Idgie (she got married "off-screen" after Ruth died) so it
>>strikes me as strange that you would refer to their relationship as
>>"lesbian." It goes back to the old question of does a bisexual person
>>only have hetero/homo relationships, depending on the sex of the
>>partner, or is there such a thing as a bisexual relationship.

From my reading of the book I would have said Idgies and Ruths relationship
was a classic butch-femme *lesbian*  relationship.



>I think it is not unreasonable to refer to a sexual relationship between
>two women as a lesbian relationship; the point is it makes the sexual
>nature of their relationship explicit.  I would interpret the word as
>saying something about their relationship, not about the actual sexual
>orientations of the individuals concerned.

Due to the lack of recognition I feel bisexuals get, particularly
when in a relationship, I personally pefer not to have my relationships
with women termed as lesbian relationships.

Not to say I wouldn't be happy in a classic butch-femme relationship :-)

Iseult.
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Screaming Yellow (Re: The War Between Us (Long))
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 11:02:15 GMT

*PRIVILEGE*
*PRIVILEGE*

>seperates us.  I get white priviledge, that seperates me from queer people
                            privilege                         
>of color.  You acknowledged the difference in the creation of soc.bi.
>So why no complain about the reality of the difference?
>
>Let me repeat myself: Bis get strayt priviledge.  It doesn't matter that
                                      privilege
 etc.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Xref: sparky soc.bi:9662 soc.motss:32779
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:47:18 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>Let me repeat myself: Bis get strayt priviledge.  It doesn't matter that
>you didn't ask for it.  I didn't ask for white male priviledge, society
>gave it to me, and I can't give it back.  Acknowledge the reality, think
>about it, and move on, rather than complaining. 

How does a bi in a motss relationship get straight privilege? Can they
marry their motss partner? Do they avoid discrimination in the workplace
if they have a motss partner? It is not analogous with white or male
privilege.  Except in very rare cases a person's whiteness or maleness
doesn't change so neither does the person's societal privilege.  A
bisexual person however has different levels of privilege according to
the sex of his or her partner.  Do bisexual people then choose to have
motos partners in order to exploit the privilege thus accruing to them?
There is a word for those that do: closeted. 

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Motss-Content: about 0.01%
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:26:24 GMT

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>Its like walking up to me and telling me that the sky
>is blue and that this sepArates you from space, and how this causes you pain.  

	Well, it is, it does, and BOY does it ever!

	But not for long (I won't say to which one this refers).

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:10:22 GMT

Terrance Heath writes:

[One for the save file.]

When I had finished writing the article, a little part of my brain was setting
off an alarm saying 'Don't post this, don't post this, don't post this'.
I'd blown off some steam just by writing it, and maybe that was enough.  But
it wasn't, really.

The camp that I wanted to understand wasn't the one I expected it from, and
when I saw some of my own anger that had surfaced I expected to get some back.
A response like this was what I hoped for, but hadn't counted on -- thank you,
Terrance.

>Terrance Heath 


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Rights or Privilege
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:21:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.110046.14179@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>Sometimes terms like male-privilege or heterosexual-privilege are used.
>Whenever I hear the term heterosexual-privilege (especially if it is
>directed at me or bi-folk) it sounds very much like an accusation. This
>in turn can lead to defensive knee-jerk reactions which tend to hinder
>productive discussion.
>
>It's the word "privilege" that does this. It seems to be that the phrase
>"(basic human) rights" would sometimes be more appropriate. For example,
>is heterosexual-privilege really a privilege that heterosexual have or
>it a basic right which queer folk are denied?

I'd like to bring up a point which someone (I think Sara) raised in 
another thread.

Bisexuals have 'heterosexual privilege' in a much more conditional
sense than, say men have 'male privilege'.  Only in certian relationships,
and then chiefly when it is not known we are bi.  (In other words, if
we stay in the closet.  This "works" for gays too.)

Getting to my own responses to the idea...

One of the problems I have on placing too much stress on 'privilege'
is that it can be used to deny that people with ties to the 'priviledged'
can ever be allies of the oppressed.  (On the other hand, it is a useful
concept for referring to the indirect gains one can get without directly
participating in "oppression".)

I spent years trying to avoid using my bisexuality as a "political cop-out".
But I don't get cut any extra slack from political types who would accuse
me of exploiting heterosexual privilege without knowing the facts. I'm
not bending my life so far out of shape like that any more. (I went into
the other closet.)

I'd rather have someone hold me accountable to my behavior than just
write me off on the basis of a broad notion of 'privilege'.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Muffin alert!
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:20:05 GMT

ELAINE@brownvm.brown.edu (Elaine M. Brennan) writes:
>well, sweetie, if your organization is the next one to pay the fare,
>Ireland sounds like the right general vicinity tome ...

If any of you dare have a party in Ireland while I am  not there I will
.....................  Well I 'll think of something very nasty to do 
you all.  And it won't be nasty/nice it will be nasty/nasty!

<Enormous hint>  I should be London/Dublin in Sept.

<ObBiContent:  Can't think of any!>

Iseult  - who just lost her bisexual membership card .... Damn!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Subject: Phoenix?
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:20:08 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:49:36 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

pclary@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:

>sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) wrote...

>We'll have lots of special treats for Moggie when she's finally 
>allowed out of quarantine.  

Lucky Moggie!  Will there be mices and birdies?  And mothies?

>And, it appears that there are more jobs for parallel programmers than
>there are for graphics programmers.

Could we do a swap?  Times are I think I'd rather be an unemployed
graphics programmer than an employed parallel one.

>>Sara - who has just done a practice run for her talk and it was *crap*
>Me thinks you're a little hard on yourself.

If anything the opposite ... ah well ... it's revising it that I'm not
looking forward to.  Still, it'll be done in a couple of weeks (waahhh,
panic panic panic panic gleep weeble gibber gibber gibber)

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Subject: BSA--Mailing list to discuss Boy Scout policy
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:12:53 GMT

Those of you who are Eagle scouts, former scouts, or are just plain
interested are invited to join a mailing list that has been set up
to discuss the BSA's anti-gay policy.

To request addition to this list, send a note to:  
eagles-request@pompei.usc.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: zbyslaw@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM (Alex Zbyslaw)
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Reply-To: zbyslaw@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM (Alex Zbyslaw)
Organization: Rank Xerox EuroPARC, Cambridge, UK
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:23:58 GMT

In article <23971@castle.ed.ac.uk>, sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
> pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
> >Alex is laying down on bench, Ciaran is poised about a foot
> >over Alex's navel.
> >Ciaran sitting up with a funny satisfied expression on his
> >face.
> So what *did* Ciaran find in Alex's navel??

Cream, Creme de Cacao, vodka impregnated fluff, and a modicum of pleasure,
I should hope.  What else would you keep in your navel?

--Alex
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Hetero/bi/homophobia (Was: Lesbian denial)
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:58:16 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Jul30.220329.20635@nwnexus.WA.COM>, elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
> In article <1992Jul30.140223.9149@amhux2.amherst.edu>
>      twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> 
>>Do you think that bisexuals, for example, are being
>>short-sighted for limiting themselves to sex with human beings?
> 
>    Some of us think so!
> 
>          Elf !!!  (Kinsey 3, Doolittle 1)

 <fx: falls to the floor in a helpless fit of giggles>

 -- Fenthe (humans? mammals? all too limiting.. <grin> )
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:11:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.211837.11657@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
 tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tanaqui) writes:
> pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>
>>Some Photo Descriptions:
>
>>Tanaqui sitting (most importantly - without her sunglasses
>>on)
>
>oooh, you can't gif this up. I dunno, do a favour for a friend & one's 
>reputation is once more being sacrificed. (Yes, yes, OK, mirrors are an
>affectation...)

Ah! And I have two pictures of that, too! Looking yummie as ever!
How are you going to prevent /me/ from having those published, hummm??
You know, I might be persuaded, given the right arguments...
<trying to hide his eagerness to be persuaded to /anything/, but
failing miserably>
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/  I survived Dave's party for 7 days and all I got was this lousy .sig!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cullen@tree.egr.uh.edu (Caleb Cullen)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Keywords: I was a teenage muffin
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:13:51 GMT

In article <4874@tuegate.tue.nl> gtoal@gem.stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)  
writes:
>My sentiments exactly.  And when it's no big thing to say you're bi,
>and a lot more of us speak up who *aren't* at the high end of the Kinsey
>scale, I think we'll find that we're not a minority inside a minority,
>but the largest group of non-straights around...

> G

I think it may not be such a good thing that "it's no big thing to say  
you're bi" because it seems to be responsible in part for bisexuals' not  
being taken seriously.

I have seen several cases in which people who should normally be  
considered straight embrace a "bisexual" lifestyle because its "in style"  
with their friends, and in doing so make bisexuals as a whole look like  
silly, confused people.  This is one of the reasons I don't make my  
sexuality known to everyone.  I can't sum up in a few words what it means  
to be bisexual the way I am bisexual.  Because it's not the same way that  
anyone else is bisexual.  (This applies to everyone - perhaps I place too  
much importance on individual "taste" or tendencies.)

What I'm saying is - IMHO, the people who declare their bisexuality openly  
-outside this forum- are primarily at the low end of the Kinsey scale.   
(We are exceptions, friends)  Once the populace becomes familiar with  
bisexuals who are not married in a motos relationship, once they lose that  
stereotype, the individuality of bisexuals may be established.  Until  
then, people will think of bisexuals as closet homosexuals who can't  
commit.  (This stereotype makes me sick.)

Thanks for listening.  And WHOA, what a de-muffin...
-----
Caleb Cullen
cullen@tree.egr.uh.edu
I know I'm a silly person; you don't have to tell me specifically!
(Unless you feel strongly about it...)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew Jude Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The Party
Keywords: Phwar! phew lick slurp snog hug wow
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:16:11 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.

In article <23908@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew Jude Brown) writes:
>
>>Agreed! Mind you, only a few people were actually displaying much leg,
>>so it's difficult to tell ... Mind you, Clive's weren't bad either -
>>and there's definitely something to be said for lycra.
>
>Scuze me!  I had legs ...

All I can say in my defense is that the T-shirt was so bright, it was
difficult to see anything else ...

>
>>I seem to recall that Bill was also the person who labelled me as a
>>'mere stripling' after finding out he was nearly ten years older than
>>myself ... *Was* I the youngest there, or what?
>
>Yup!
>
>>[I get *every* thread in the wrong order! Sara's postings usually first]
>
>Sounds like the *right* order to me ... >{8-)

Just that your follow-up postings would be appreciated even more if I'd
received the original posting first! It's a little difficult sometimes
to follow a thread if your followup to a followup to a followup posting
arrives first, then all the other follow-ups, and two weeks later the
original posting ...

>
>Sara
>-- 
> >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
> Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
> Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
> >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp

- Matt (begging forgiveness for forgetting Sara ... ;-)

-- 
| Matthew J. Brown  | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to   |
| mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk  | Imperial College,  | lectures He wouldn't have created |
| mjb02@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate   | double-sided photocopiers.        |
| Morven on Lambda  | LONDON SW7 2AZ     |          -IC RagMag 1991/92       |
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: michael@tfs.com (Yikes!)
Subject: Re: Young and Queer (again): LONG
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:11:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.193722.28630@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>This was a really powerful article.  I'm so glad you posted it, Scott.
>
Heather speaks for me too, Scott. What an article. Thanks for typing it in.

>The article also gave some hope with the dance hall "alternative" culture
>of young people now, where gender-bending and lesbigay sexuality are 
>"cool" rather than "disgusting".  May these folks conquer the rigid 
>main stream high school mentality!
>
Indeed. I'm tempted to visit that dance hall! I wonder if they let
"old people" (I'm 37) in?

>
>I wanna do something to help these teenagers!  And I'm going to figure out
>something ...
>
I think the best thing we can do is live out and proud, and support
other gay/bi/lesbian people doing the same. The author of the article
says it well:


		"... Clearly there 
		is no more important force for change than for gays to 
		identify themselves as such and to live openly, taking
		whatever consequences may come our way. ..."


My wife and I try to be as open, honest and out about being bi as 
we can. Our children know, (girls, 12 and 14) and some of their
friends know. I hope that if some of their friends start wondering
about their sexuality, we will provide healthy role models, and
they might even feel comfortable enough to talk with us about these 
things.

Hopefully it will be easier for each succesive generation......

<hugs to all>
Michael, still feel rather wrung out after reading that article.....
-- 
Michael Shiloh			michael@tfs.com
TRW Financial Systems		(510) 704-3520
Berkeley, Ca
From: aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh soc.bi party
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:13:21 GMT
	<1992Jul20.214713.14025@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>
	<1992Jul22.180215.4276@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Computer Science, University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1992Jul22.180215.4276@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> 
tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
    pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:

   >We need more floor shows...

   Don't we always? & people didn't take advantage of the one in 
   Peter's room...

Er <looks around nervously>, which particular room and which
particular floor show might you be referring to, my dear Tanaqui?

Ang
--
Angela Gilham.                 \ aag@aber.ac.uk \ "You should have fallen in
Department of Computer Science  \                \ love with a happy man, if 
University of Wales, Aberystwyth,\ +44 970 622433 \ you wanted happiness. But
Penglais, Aberystwyth,            \                \ you fell for the breath-
SY23 3BZ. United Kingdom.          \                \ taking beauty of pain."
Newsgroups: soc.bi