From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: another poem
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:19:05 GMT

In article <BvCKxt.1sz@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>I have to bring something up here.

Go right ahead. 

>First, let me say that I've experienced the vast majority of what all of you
>have mentioned. I was ostracized for being smart and fat, rebelled, etc. I do
>know where you're coming from, and I agree with a lot of it.
>
>However, I just can't get around hating what you call "feminine" women. 
>Aren't you making just as many assumptions about them based on their looks
>as you resent being made about yourselves? 

No, it's not that I honestly hate anyone; they just grate on my nerves.
And we're not talking only looks, here.  I've gotten judged by my own
looks several times -- had guys I was talking to go, "You're a
PHYSICIST?!?!?!?!?" when the subject comes up (now a linguist).  Or else
they say, "You don't look like a physicist."  Or, "What are YOU doing in
physics?" or other such choice comments.  It's not looks we're (or at
least I'm) talking about.  It's the whole behavior thing.

Black people nowdays probably feel that way when they see blacks in the
deep south scraping and bowing, and blacks on old TV shows acting like
illiterate, foolish bumpkins.  That's the way I think I feel when I see
a woman whose more concerned with landing a frat boy husband than being
paid parity money on the job, or having reproductive choice, ot
whatever.  It's far more than looks.  I've met women who were plain who
irritated me like sand in a wet bathing suit, and I've met very
attractive women who really stood out and voiced their opinions.  Sally
for instance is 6' tall with blonde hair and mint-green eyes -- she's
VERY attractive.  She is also as close to a mental sister as anyone I've
ever known; when the two of us get going, watch the hell out.

Saying that I and the other women here as feminists have to "just
accept" and welcome women who are featherbrained idiots or worse, who
force themselves to act like featherbrained idiots to "get a guy" is
like saying to a black person that they should just accept that part of
being black for some people is cringing servility and they should
welcome this.  Sorry, but no!

This isn't just looks.  This is the whole baby-voiced, forced
stuypidity, I'd-better-act-dumb-if-I-want-a-boyfriend, gigglegiggle
mentality that I can't stand.  I'm not saying that those people have no
right to existence -- just that being around them makes my lip curl
because they grate on my nerves like a handful of fingernails on a mile
long blackboard.    

I can almost bet my meager bank account that you have a mental picture
of what I look like from the opinions I express, and I can assure you
with total confidence, it's nothing like what I really look like.

>What is so liberating about 
>accepting only your own view of womanhood, just as those do who would force
>you into molds not of your own making? In short, where do you get off? You

Try saying this to a black person who is pissed at seeing pther black
people in the deep south getting up and giving their seats to white
people on buses; this does still happen in remote areas.  Say this to an
Italian-American who is angry at the Mafia.  "That black person is
expressing their blackness by being servile and scraping, and you should
welcome that diversity!"  "That Italian American is expressing their
ethnicity by being crooked and murderous, and you should accept their
ethnic expression with open arms!"  Don't stay up waiting for it.
 
>know, a lot of women just have softer personalities and express themselves
>differently than you do, and that's no reason to believe that they're
>necessarily patsies of the patriarchy.

I'm not talking about tone of voice, either.  I'm talking about what's
in the MIND, not how it's expressed.  And I don't "get off" doing
anything.  Again, I am saying that women like that bug the hell out of
me, not that they have no right to existence and are wastes of
protoplasm.  I am saying that I care about what is in a woman's MIND,
not on her body!!  A plain and loud woman who acts dumber than her
boyfriend just to reassure him or won't call herself a feminist because
she's afraid of being thought of as "unattractive" pisses me off far
more than a pretty, soft-voiced woman who has her own opinions and
expects good treatment.  You are far too hung up on looks and are
assuming that we are, too, and that bothers me.  

>I used to feel the way you do, that's why I want to make this statement. I 

Are you sure of that?  Or are you just seeing yourself where it doesn't
exist, molding my comments and creating a mental image of me, then
projecting yourself onto it?  

>like to think I've gotten past it. Even though I tend to have a knee-jerk
>reaction to "pretty" women, I've now met enough of them I respect to catch
>myself, and I've made enough peace with my own self-image that I don't need
>to blame hurts from the past on innocent passers-by. I'm thinking in particular
>of two co-workers of mine, both of whom I refused to trust when I first met
>them: one is a tall, thin, gorgeous Englishwoman, 

THen you would have refused to trust the one woman who has had the most
profound impact on my own spiritual awakening -- Sally Gutierrez.  Her
husband calls her Blondiferous.  Bluntly put, you would have alos
probably had a very negative reaction toward me as well. 

>and another is a soft-spoken
>blonde, blue-eyed waif. However, as I got to know them, I realized they hadn't
>a snotty bone in their bodies, and are both great people; the former is working
>on some personal problems with a strength and grace I marvel at, and the latter
>has one of the sharpest feminist minds I know.

You are hung up on saying that we are all plain and don't like pretty
women.  Again, I'm not TALKING about looks; I've been pursued enough not
to worry about that, and some "feminist" women have reacted to ME badly
because of the way *I* dress and look.  I don't give a damn what someone
wears or what they look like or any of that shit.  I can't stand women
who deliberately act stupid to get a guy, who say "I'm not a feminist,
but . . . "  I can't stand women who put up with abusive boyfriends
becase, "He needs me," mostly because I don't know what to say to
convince them to dump him; I don't know how to help them.

I am not prejudicial towards people because of their looks; this
discussion is not about a catfight of, "Ooooh, lookit her.  She's so
thin and *B*L*O*N*D*E*, she must be just a total bitch. <scratch scratch
scratch>."  Frankly, I've gotten misjudged for the same reason by men
AND women.  "YOU'RE a FEMINIST?!?!?!?"  "I don't know why YOU don't like
girlie magazines!!!!!"  Etc. etc. etc. etc.  Please do not accuse me of
prejudging people negatively the same way I've been prejudged.  

>The point is that we as women can't continue to undermine each other the way
>this society wants us to. Societal pressures try to make us compete for men, 
>separate us from our elderwomen, and cutthroat each other for the few morsels
>of prestige and power they throw us. We can only change things if we stick
>together and refuse to play, and the things you've been saying seem to me to
>be only another variation. Start trying to see the Goddess in every woman you
>meet, and the God in every man. I used to do this on the subway as an exercise,
>and it was very instructional about myself. (if you don't subscribe to a 
>god/goddess paradigm, use the Tao or whatever works for you; just look for that
>divine spark.)

This is what I *A*M* saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  When women
pull these kind of stupid games with men and themselves, they are
pulling the rug out from under ALL of us, and THAT is what makes me
angry.  THAT is what I hate.  You are hung up on saying that we hate
pretty women.  What I hate is women who amputate parts of themselves to
serve as societally defined women, thus making it hard on the rest of us
to say that that is painful.

>Also, you might want to take a look at why you get such a rush from proving
>other people wrong about you. Does it make you feel superior? Do you get a
>superiority rush from just being different? Don't we all need to connect rather
>than glory in our separateness? I had a therapist tell me once that I used a 
>strong "Pearls-before-the-swine" mindset to defend myself and overcompensate
>for a bad self-image. He was right, and it worked, but it sure was lonely.

Again, youy are reading too much into this.  I am bothered when women
force themselves to be stupid fluttery featherbrains to "get a guy," and
I am angry when we don't hang toogether and work together.  I am angry
when we ignore one another and refuse to take one another seriously.

And as far as proving people wrong about me, it is hardly my fault if a
guy looks at me and thinks I am a pliant pet and is shocked out of his
shoes when I open my mouth and express myself forcefully, spandex dress,
jewelry, thin legs, long hair, perfume, and even occasional cosmetics, 
high heels, and all.  He and many men and women misjudge me because of
what I look like, and that's just too damned bad for them.  I am a
feminist, but I'm not going to start wearing camouflage boxer shorts and
not shaving my legs just to fit into the commonly defined stereotype of
feminism.  I am NOT what "other people" think of as a feminist; they are
thus proven wrong by their own narrow folly.  I only like to see their
eyes get wide; it's going to happen and I'm not going to stress over it.
 
>Again, I only want to say this because I think I've done it; I recognize a
>not-very-happy path I went on, and try to get others to make a turnoff before
>I did. I wasted a lot of time. I suppose I'll get roundly flamed, but what the 
>hell. 

No, you're not getting flamed, hon.  I think you're just maybe
recognizing your unhappy path where it doesn't exist and projecting it
onto us.

Blessings,
Janis