HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dirk_Steins@k2.maus.de (Dirk Steins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon tinkering thoughts.
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:45:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.11

b>So you will have to get an external case, and a converter to go from
b>25->50 SCSI, and of course, the 25pin cable - you can get that at any
b>Mac shop - in fact, just about any case/powersupply built for the mac
b>should work perfectly.

Just a little correction here: the Falcon has a SCSI2 connector at it's back
and definitely not the 25-pin connector the TT has.

So you would have to get another cable.

Dirk
--
Dirk Steins            Usenet: dirk_steins@k2.maus.de
Niederkassel/Koeln      UUCP: any_backbone_that_knows_domains!k2.maus.de!ds
Germany                Fido: ds%maus k2, 2:242/2.6
--
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: darekm@microsoft.com (Darek Mihocka)
Subject: Re: Gemulator (Falcon emulator?)
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:34:35 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <64054@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Jeff Young writes:
>
>>Someone will please post benchmarks of Gemulator and Falcon?
>What's the point..?
>Gemulator is an ST emulator, not a Falcon emulator..

Don't forget to also mention that as far as the Falcon is concerned
it has not been seen by any U.S. Atari users that I know of. It wasn't
present at the Toronto show, not at the Indianapolis show, and it sure
as heck wasn't present at this weekend's Connecticut show. Bob Brodie did
show up, but all he brought was Lynx machine. OH BOY!!!!! And Bob Brodie,
shame on you for not even having the courtesy to show up at the banquet on
Saturday night. I guess you were far too busy to mingle with users and
developers who each shelled out $26 for "dinner", which to me looked like
cold cuts and bread.

Jeff, tell you what, when YOU personally manage to buy a Falcon, please, oh
please, do tell us how much you paid for it, and do post benchmark results.
I'm sure the Falcon will run circles around a 486 running Gemulator. No
dispute there. But until you can buy a Falcon you shouldn't really compare
an invisible vaporware machine that almost no one has ever seen vs. an
Atari emulator that has now been seen by about 4000 Atari ST users and
which goes on sale in under 4 weeks.

- Darek

-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Darek Mihocka, BraSoft, 14150 NE 20th St., Unit 302, Bellevue, WA 98007. |
| Creator of Gemulator, Quick ST, and Xformer. Views expressed are my own. |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: hrs@aber.ac.uk (Herbert Martin Sauro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon _ Atari ST User and ST Review
Keywords: falcon,68030
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:47:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Did anyone see the ST Review article on the new Falcon? The only good
thing about it was the picture, the article itself was completely worthless,
hardly any details.

Herb
-- 
/******************************************************************************
Herbert Sauro                                   e-mail: hrs@aber.ac.uk
Biological Sciences                              phone: +44 970 622353
Univesity College of Wales
From: joeadato@tcpbbs.pcn.org (Joseph Adato)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Gemulator
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:37:02 EDT
Organization: TCP BBS, Cleveland, Ohio

I just got the demonstration video for Gemulator, the ST emulator for
any IBM/IBM clone computer.  I must say what I saw was very impressive.
I strongly recomend that anyone slightly interested in the subject of
have an ST emulator for the PC spend the $5.00 and get a copy.
From: vombruch@quando.quantum.de (Stefan vom Bruch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Article on FALCON in German mag c't
Date: 21 Aug 92 09:00:37 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software GmbH, Dortmund, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Warwick Allison (warwick@cs.uq.oz.au) wrote:
: paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau) writes:
: 
: >>   true color mode:
: >>   - 320 x 200, 32768 colors
: >>   - 320 x 480, 32768 colors
: 
: >Didn't Sam say 65536 colors at the GEnie conference? Anybody know for
: >sure how these color-things are?
: 
: It is 16-bit, so yes 65536 colours.  The question is, how.  15-bits
: (32768 colours) would simply map to 32 shades-of-red x 32 shades-of-green x
: 32 shades-of-blue - ie. twice the colour accuracy of the STe (4x the ST),
: and unrestricted palette (ie. true colour).  Now, the last bit... well,
: it could be a "half-brite" bit, or some such global effect - perhaps
: thus giving even higher colour accuracy... but as for the TRUTH... who
: knows... 32Kcolours is fine by me!  At least it doesn't exhaust all
: of your memory like 24-bit colur does (16Mcolours).

It's 16-bit and 32768 colours: 5 bits for red, 5 bits for green and 5 bits
for blue, no LUT and therefore the term "true colour", even if it isn't
24 bits. The remaining bit is used for special purposes, for example as an 
overlay bit for video titling/genlocking.

: --
: Warwick
: --
:   _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
:  /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
:  \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /      void (if removed)
:       v      Brisbane, Australia.        /  

-- 
 _--_|\            Stefan vom Bruch                         vombruch@quantum.de
/      | ______________________________________________________________________
\.--._/ (_      /  Quantum GmbH, Emil-Figge-Str.83, W-4600 Dortmund 50, Germany
_____v____) |/ /_)
From: Dirk_Steins@k2.maus.de (Dirk Steins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: RAM expansion on the TT
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:08:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: K2.A45918
Organization: MausNet
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.11

In article <l9036dINN6vr@aludra.usc.edu> baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer)
writes:

b>        I am curios about the new board.  The old one had 2 banks of
b>32-bit wide memory, up to 4MB per memory location.  Will the new board
b>handle 4 banks (the easiest way to 64MB) or will it actually be able to
b>support 16MB chips (neccesitating the existance of only one bank)?

As far as i know ( i think you're talking about the GE-Soft Mighty Mic TT-RAM
expansion) they have 4 Banks on the new board (GE-Soft is just 500m away). But
also the old 32 MB Boards should support the 16MB Chips so you can expand your
memory up to 128 MB with an old 32MB board if you have 16 MBit chips at hand.

b>BTW, have they sorted out all of the incompatibilities they were
b>having with the older TTs?

I've heard from some users of the board that the newer ones (especially the
64MB board) works much better than the old ones. I have an old 32MB board with
16MB and never had any problems with it, and the new ones should be better
(what's better than no problem?).

Dirk
--
Dirk Steins            Usenet: dirk_steins@k2.maus.de
Niederkassel/Koeln      UUCP: any_backbone_that_knows_domains!k2.maus.de!ds
Germany                Fido: ds%maus k2, 2:242/2.6
--
From: jas@oasis.icl.co.uk (Jason Morris)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: TapeBIOS Driver:  Where is it?
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:55:32 GMT
Organization: ICL, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 4SN, UK

plate@cdsmn.mn.org (Doug Plate) writes:
> 
> A short while back, people were talking about Alan Horihane's TapeBIOS
> software.  I thought I had saved any info I might have needed to get
> hold of it, but all I can find is an old article saying how good it is.
> 
> Where is this software?  I don't even know the name of it to do a search.
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug Plate

  What does it do? Is it a streamer tape driver?

    Jas.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jason Morris         jas@oasis.icl.co.uk           +44 344 424842 ext 2662 |
|     ICL Computers Ltd, BRA01, Lovelace Rd, Bracknell, Berks, England.      |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|               I do not speak for ICL. I speak for everyone...              |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joeadato@tcpbbs.pcn.org (Joseph Adato)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: High Speed Modems
Date: 11 Aug 92 02:31:08 GMT
Organization: TCP BBS, Cleveland, Ohio

charlie@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu (Charlie Demerjian) writes:

> I am looking to buy a 9600 baud modem for my ST. What are the best brands? 
> I need a V.32bis and V.42bis, and fax capabilities would be a plus. Any 
> information would help, especially details on what modems you own, and any
> problems you have had. Thanks in advance.
> 
>    -Chuck
> 
Supra has such a modem for under $300.00.  If I remember correctly the
price is closer to $250.00
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: dmb@wam.umd.edu (David M. Baggett)
Subject: Re: Falcon Resolution, Audio Sampling
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:46:34 GMT

hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:
>Who knows, maybe one day I'll find a need for a 1440x240 display.)

Your experience with multisyncs is similar to mine under X (-Windows)
on a 486 machine running mach.  The 386 X server lets you select your
video mode by actually setting the horizontal and vertical timings.  By
tweaking these I was able to do 1152x900 (which is as much memory as
the card had) on a decent (but not great) multisync.  I'm sure you
could do even better on a good monitor like a NEC 3FG or Sony 1304 (if
you had the memory, of course).

In June I saw a Falcon protoype running in 16-bit 640x480 mode and
while it was obvious that it was interlaced it looked OK on an SC1224.
Since that was a prototype, I can only assume things have either gotten
better or at least stayed the same (which would be fine).

The only problem I have with their video modes is that the one they
really want to push for games (16-bits-per-pixel) is way too piggy for
a 1 or 2 meg machine.  Just one screen at 640x480x64K resolution is
600K, and you'll want to have at least two for page flipping.  That
about squares it for one and two meg machines right there.  (And don't
forget that you'll want plenty of 16 bit sampled sounds in there too!)
When I mentioned this problem to them they didn't seem to "get it."  Oh
well...

The minimum standard RAM configuration for the Falcon should be 4 megs
if they want game companies to write for that mode.  (Game companies
always write for the least common denominator so they get the biggest
market.)  And RAM is cheap.  IMHO, they should trade in the 1 meg SIMMS
for a single 4 meg SIMM in the base model.  (Of course, looking at the
specs you can see how much they value *my* opinion!  :-)

Dave Baggett
-- 
ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
dmb@wam.umd.edu ** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 ** GEnie: ADVENTIONS
From: baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: High Speed Modems
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:00:43 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug13.052624.16584@bdt.com> BING_SIN@bdt.COM writes:
>
>  Take a closer look at the ads again.  For $259, you get the Supra 9600
>modem, NOT the v.32bis (Supra 14.4).  

	You are right - boy do I feel sucked in by the media.  :(
	Gawd I hate the fine print.

>
>  The cheapest price I seem for the Supra v.32bis is $299.  It is from a MAC
>mail order place.  If anyone interested, I can get the name and phone number.
>

	Actually, I have been in contact with some people on misc.forsale that
are trying to nail down a deal to purchase a large order of Supra's (~30) and
sell them for about $285+S&H.  If you are interested, contact 
myhre@plains.NoDak.edu - got a robot-response with a description of the deal.
To get the robot response you may need to put "RE: New Supra 14.4k Modems" in
your subject line.

	Of course, there is another possibility:  According to 
Clari.streetprice, Comp-u-store OnLine sells the Supra for $282.  They can
be reached at 1-800-843-7777.

	I have no affiliation with either Compustore or Robert Myhre other than
the fact that I'm going to be getting a modem from one of them soon.... :)

>  -bing
Organisation: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet, Muenster, Germany
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 11:14:54 MES
From: Julian F. Reschke <RESCHKE@DMSWWU1A.UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Gem Support Dieing?

In article <memo.578043@cix.compulink.co.uk>, apelled@cix.compulink.co.uk (Adam
Pelled) says:
>
>GEM on the PC was severely crippled due to some law suit with Apple. Like
>windows can't be sized etc..  How Atari got round this one i don't know.
>All the GUIs around today owe alot to Apple even if they don't admit it.
>How comes the recoverable trashcan thingy in Neo got by the board for that
>matter ?  i'm fairly sure this was copyright Apple.
>
>        Adam.

This is simply wrong. The only thing that was crippled was the desktop.
The AES was even extended. Most people I knew at that time continued to
use the old desktop in top of the new AES.

Nowadays, DR has a realtime multitasking OS called Flex/OS with a
multitasking version of AES on top (X/GEM). So both GEM lines (PC and
Atari) are still supported.

___________________________ cut here _____________________________________
JULIAN F. RESCHKE, HENSENSTR. 142, D-W4400 MUENSTER
EMAIL: JULIAN@MATH.UNI-MUENSTER.DE, JR@MS.MAUS.DE
____________________ correct me if I'm wrong _____________________________
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,maus.sys.atari.st,maus.sys.atari.hardware
From: u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull)
Subject: Re: Falcon 030 <-> 386 40 Mhz
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:38:35 GMT

leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) writes:

...
>Same was true with the Archimedes from Arcon, Uk over here in Germany.

>It had a better hardware than all the STs and Amigas, but it was not
>supported well enough over here, so only a few were selled !

	Being an owner of an Archimedes 310 and an Amiga 1000, I have to
tend to disagree here.  The hardware in the amiga 1000 is better than that
in the Archimedes.  However the Amiga hardware is looking very 'deadend' now
because - CBM just don't seem to be supporting in properly.

>So I don't think that many people will buy the Falcon 030.

	Tend to agree here - from what I see Atari seems to have very little
marketing outside of the uk (and maybe de?).  Just remember how the C64
outsold the old atari 800's by a factor of about 4-1, due to poor marketing.
And how the Atari ST, outsold the Amiga in the uk - in the early days.
Marketing, software, and support *is* the only way computers sell -
unfortunately Atari just don't seem to have it - which is a bit of a shame
seeing as the Falcon has more going for it than the ST did.
(Not that that is saying much ;-) )


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
Subject: Re: Wanted Sam Tramiel, conference transcript of GEnie
Reply-To: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:31:18 GMT


In a previous article, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com () says:

>The Sam Tramiel conference on GEnie will no doubt be included in
>this week's ST Report...
>
>But briefly, other than acknowledging the existance of the Falcon,
>and uploading an ASCII description of its features, the
>conference was more or less one long "No Comment"...
>
>Any "real" information is being reserved for release at the
>Atari show coming up soon in Germany.
>
>Sam did say that the Forbes article gave everyone at Atari a good
>laugh, and that the view from his "new" office is better than his
>"old" one..
>
>Also in the realm of "Good News", the GEnie conferencing software
>didn't crash this time.
>

I didn't like two things about the conference.

The first thing was when he said if you want better resolution,
get a TT.  I thought that it was sad when he said that because
it probably means that the 640x480 will be the highest resolutions
even on the higher-end Falcons.  I hope this isn't the case.

I also didn't like the fact that you couldn't replace the 68030
chip with a 68040 at a later date.

There is one thing for certain though, we all know what the Falcon has,
but we don't know what it can do.  It may have some very hot graphics
capabilities that we will not believe...

Len (aa399@cleveland.freenet.edu)


--
From: Chuck.Grimsby@p1.f47.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Chuck Grimsby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: What's the best vi editor for the ST?
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:12:12 GMT

In a message of 17 Aug 92  12:05:10, Konstantin Woller wrote:
KW> In article <4230@wet.UUCP> ekrimen@wet.UUCP writes: 
KW> ]In article <1992Aug11.155003.21640@clinet.fi> alien@clinet.fi (Risto
KW> Juvonen) 
KW> writes:
KW> ]> I've tested Tempus on my TT and its really fast. But, why new
KW> ]How'd you get Tempus running on your TT?  I have version 2 and all I get
KW> ]is two bombs when I try to run it.
KW> 
KW> ... you should use version 2.12 ... she's runin' perfectly
KW>     in st- and tt-high ..

I've got version 2.07  How do I upgrade?  Can I upgrade, or do I have to buy
new?

 * Origin: FlightLine PointNet Point 1 (1:282/47.1)
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization:  One of these days for sure
Subject: Re: Software written to your specs
	<H.8zrhn73hGgw@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca> <5332764@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
	<H.tTX&ZzYtjW_@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca>
	<H.NEFVZcS1UN2@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
	<H.iQEOzb_YkvU@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
Reply-To: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:31:18 -0700

In <H.iQEOzb_YkvU@harvee.billerica.ma.us>, Eric S Johansson writes:
>In <H.NEFVZcS1UN2@harvee.billerica.ma.us>, Eric S Johansson writes:
>>and now on to the hermes questions:
>
>and I just remembered one more question.  Why is the date/time about
>2 hrs west of england?  I set it to EST in config.sys.
>
	Check appropriate RFC's and follow news.admin. Letters for timezones
are going away. An offset from GMT is best. -0200 in your case, if you 
are 2 hours past GMT.
	

-- 
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
From: timg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Tim Gallivan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: GS and gemGS problems.
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:07:57 GMT
Organization: University of Texas Center for Relativity

Hi,

A couple of days ago, I made available a GEM shell for Ghostscript and a
GS screen device that supports windows. I mentioned at the time that I
had not tested them on color systems, and well, they don't work properly
on them. Neither do they work properly on hi-res systems, but I didn't
encounter the hi-res problem until I turned off QuickST.  Both programs
are usable on medium and high res systems, but please be advised that
they will not look perfect. I will fix these problems as soon as I
can, but my system is on the fritz right now and it may be a while.

GemGS has too many menu items for a low res screen. I don't know what
to do about that. Also, can anyone tell me how to find the color of
the current desktop background. When I restore the background myself,
it is the wrong color.

Sorry for the problems,

-Tim
timg@landau.ph.utexas.edu
From: jvance@maxwell.oac.uci.edu (Joachim Vance)
Subject: Re: Gemulator (Falcon emulator?)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:38:11 GMT

darekm@microsoft.com (Darek Mihocka) writes:
>But until you can buy a Falcon you shouldn't really compare
>an invisible vaporware machine.... [stuff deleted]

  Just out of curiosity, at what point does something become
"vaporware"?  
  - Is something vaporware from the time it is announced until it comes
out?  
  - Or is something vaporware if it is announced and misses a deadline
or two? (like FSM GDOS).  
  - Or is something vaporware if it is announced and never comes out?
(like the 1450XLD which I wanted so badly..:)

And how much does rumor count in something's vaporware status.  I
thought that vaporware was something that just didn't ever come out.
(or doesn't seem to.)

Just wondering.

--
Joachim Vance
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
     I am antisesquipedalian--Opposed to the use of long words.
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Re: Gemulator (Falcon emulator?)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 17:24:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.044657.442@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
>
>486/33 only running at speed of 8 MHZ ST?!!  Some people said it was
>supposing to run 2-3 TIMES faster!  WHAT happened?? People said

Jeff, please try to understand that this is software emulation of the ST, if
you have Quick ST, it should allow an increase in the speed which I read from
the letter from Darek(or was it e-mailed).  Anyways try doing a PC emulation of
a AT machine on your so darling FALCON(Don't get me wrong, I'm in support of
the FALCON even in the AMIGA.ADVOCACY newsgrp which seems that you are being
flamed out of now).  I had a 030-16Mhz machine before, believe me when I ran
the AT emulator emulation of EGA, it was about 1.6 Mhz AT speed!  That's quite
useless in graphic intensive calls.


>Gemulator demo running run from 100% RAMDISK too and it is fooling
>everyone because real ST DMA is 2-3 TIMES faster than PC hard disk!!

DMA on the ST is 10 MegaBits which translates to about 1.25 Mbytes per sec.
Will my ISA machine IDE HD does about 2 Mbytes per sec., that seems quite
a different than your assumption (With cache its rating at 9 Mbytes per sec.)
And if you had a EISA with SCSI 32-Bit card it's over 5 Mbytes a sec. (EISA +
SCSI 32-Bit card is very cheap nowadays).
 
>What MIDI programs running now?  Adlib is bankrupt and Soundblaster
>has very very terrible MIDI port and sound.  Turtle Beach board

Seems like a subject of opinion

>Delphi report said Falcon is selling NEXT WEEK so Gemulator MUST
>faster than 68030 16 MHZ, DSP 56001.  Also PC needs 8 channel 

I hope its available here, love to see it!

>16 bit stereo too!  Falcon already using local bus and very
>fast SCSI 2 so maybe 486/200 is needed???.

Why would say that Jeff?  The cpu on the FALCON itself is quite slow at 16Mhz!

>Someone will please post benchmarks of Gemulator and Falcon?

The FALCON 030-16Mhz cpu alone is about the same as a 386SX20.  I got this
info directly from Mac Ads on their powerbook ads.  They compared their
030-16Mhz 32-Bit(not the 16-Bit path like the LC II) to a 386SX20 running
windows, well it was printed that the speed was about the same.  So in saying
that, the 030-16Mhz may be slower in reality to the 386-20SX since their
benchmarks ran it on Windows 3.0 instead of OS/2 2.0 32-Bit OS.
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,rec.radio.amateur.packet
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: WANTED: W0RLI BBS for Atari ST <-> amateur Packet
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:29:56 GMT

I heard that there is a version of the W0RLI BBS that was written
as part of pack-et-term but I have not had any luck in chasing it down.
If someone has this program and can pack it (lharc or zoo, etc) and 
the either let me know where to get it or uuencode it and mail it to
me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

swood
-- 
+========================+    -------_________     +=========================+
| WANTED - DEAD OR ALIVE |    o\ o \     ____|o    |  If you see this lure,  |
|  Creek Chub "Plunker"  |      \___\_-o-    viv   | PLEASE send me email!!! |
+========================+            viv          +=========================+