HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: messiah@nevada.edu (mw)
Subject: Re: BJ: Which counting system should I use?
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:55:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.220939.8394@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>I'm going to ask a newbie question, because it's so important that
>I don't trust my own opinion: which counting system should I use?

>I originally used High-Low.  During the last year I switched to
>multiparameter Hi-Opt I for single deck, which is pretty awesome
>for single deck but silly for double deck or more.  Moreover,
>multiparameter strategy adjustments are tiring and time-consuming.  After
>I've been up all night, I still can do the basics (e.g., true count
>strategy adjustments) very well, but the side counts and other whistles
>and bells tend to disappear.  So, I'm thinking of switching.  But to what?

>                  EXPLANATION OF COUNTING SYSTEMS
>  ===========================================================================
>  COUNTING           COUNTING VALUES         "BEST" EFFICIENCY  CORRELATION
>  SYSTEMS      2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  X  A  SOURCE  PLAY+ace  BET+ace INSURE
>  --------     ----------------------------  ------  -------- -------- ------
>  Wong Halves  1  2  2  3  2  1  0 -1 -2 -2  Wong     57-67+  .99      .72-.85
>  Zen          1  1  2  2  2  1  0  0 -2 -1  Snyder   63-67+  .97      .85-.91
>  Uston APC    1  2  2  3  2  2  1 -1 -3  0  Uston    69-69+  .91-.99  .90
>  High-Low     1  1  1  1  1  0  0  0 -1 -1  Wong     51-63   .97      .76-.85
>  Hi-Opt I     0  1  1  1  1  0  0  0 -1  0  Humble   61-63   .88-.97  .85
>
>I really should run simulations to see which system provides the best return
>on investment.

>Opinions?  Have I missed any systems that would perform very well on both
>double deck and single deck (and maybe shoes)?

Since you have been using Hi-Opt I for single deck anyway, and are used to
keeping a lot of side counts. I think doing the following would be the best
in your case...

   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   T   J   Q   K   A
   
   +1  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  -1

    0 +1  +1  +1  +1   0   0   0  -1  -1  -1  -1   0

This way you just add the two counts together for betting and use
the main count for playing. For certain doubling plays you can of
course use the index for the betting count (1st + 2nd)...

You can do this for any number of decks and it doesn't take a hell of
a lot of calculating and adjusting. There are many varieties to such an
approach but this is the easiest and remains @ level one in complexity.

(Btw - how's the code coming on that "indexes adjusted for kelly"
       strategy generating program? That last post was very interesting
       but you expressed more than a little doubt in its accuracy.)

C-ya...
From: baw2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Bruce A Weisberg)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Where in Vegas are those quarter/dollar "fall-over-the-edge" machines?
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:09:41 GMT
Reply-To: baw2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Bruce A Weisberg)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Jul21.183325.24454@natinst.com> darrenl@natinst.com (Darren Lilie) writes:
>I'm heading to Vegas this weekend and am wondering if anyone can recall what
>casinos these machines are in because I havent played them in quite a while.
>
>Darren
>
>

	I know that Circus Circus has them......:(




baw
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jleung@phx.mcd.mot.com (Jim Leung)
Subject: Pai Gow payouts
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:57:12 GMT

I was wondering how the payouts are calculated for PaiGow poker.
I know what the rules, are to win, I just don't know how to
get the payback calculated. 

If this is in the FAQ, I apologise, but I don't have it, could
someone send it to me?

	Thanks, JL
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: galanter@nyu.edu (Philip Galanter)
Subject: Re: Trip Report: New York City (not really a trip report)
Reply-To: galanter@nyu.edu (Philip Galanter)
Organization: New York University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.065304.7049@kpc.com> why@kpc.com (Will Hyde) writes:
|In article <pccm=9c.slick@netcom.com> slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso)  
writes:
|>galanter@nyu.edu (Philip Galanter) writes:
|>
|>[interesting anecdotes about shell game/three-card monte operators  
deleted]
|>
|>>I suppose there are social Darwinists out there who feel that "if they  
are  
|>>that stupid, then they deserve it"...but these scam artists mostly prey  
on  
|>>the false hopes of people who can least afford to lose and are  
desperate  
|>>for some good news in their lives, and its hard for me to be that cold.
|>
|>Rather like state lotteries, IMHO.
|>
|>>This "game" is a crime that should not be encouraged.  
|>
|
|  No kidding.  Who hasn't seen all those movies about all those
|  gangsters who got rich with prostitution, drugs ... and
|  "the numbers racket" ...?
|

Just so the point is not lost, and because it is not clear with just the  
out of context paragraph above...the reason I am so against shell games is  
not because it is gambling, but because it is fraud.  At least gambling,  
and even non-rigged illegal gambling, is in some sense "fair".  The other  
reason it angers me is that it targets the poor, at least in Chicago...
the game is on the "el" typically on the afternoon of a payday, and many  
of the working poor get their checks cashed at the work place, so its like  
fishing in a barrel.  Given the advertising I've seen, I think it could be  
argued that state lotteries also target the poor.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Philip Galanter         New York University    phone:    212-998-3041
Research Associate      251 Mercer             fax:      212-995-4120
Academic Computing      New York, NY 10012     internet: galanter@nyu.edu
 
   O f f i c e   o f   A r t s   &   M e d i a   T e c h n o l o g i e s
Xref: sparky rec.gambling:4024 comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted:5073
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted
Subject: Re: "7 Card Stud" Simulator Wanted - Shareware
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:10:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.gambling
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Jul18.055756.13516@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark A. Holtz) writes:

>Does anyone know where there is a good 7-card-stud simulator for
>the IBM-PC computers? I need to sharpen my game.

>Oh, and by the way, I have absolutely no FTP capacity, so I would
>certainly be appreciative if someone e-mails me a uuencoded copy.

>Thanks in advance.
>-- 
>President: ___ George Bush            <:> UUCP: PacBell.COM! -> mholtz!sactoh0
>           ___ Bill Clinton/Al Gore   <:>     ucbvax!csusac! /
>                                      <:>
>           _X_ None of the Above      <:> Internet: mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us

Ditto all the above except signatures/paths
but lets say any poker, not just 7stud

+--Great Quotes of our Time-------------------------------------------+
|        You should never have a hobby that eats                      |
+--------------------------------------Amarillo Slim Preston----------+          
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England  (44)061-275-6033   |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: EGG9EJS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Re: 2 people & 1 bankroll
Reply-To: eric@hup.ucla.edu
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:40:03 PDT

In article <1992Jul30.200220.785@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu>, on 31 Jul 92 01:02:20 GMT,
jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:

>
>Picture this situation:
>mine girlfriend and I and $500 dollars go to Las Vegas.
>
>We have taught ourselves the basic strategy and a simple
>counting system (say Hi Opt 1).  We both will be playing
>blackjack with the 1 bankroll of $500.  Doubling the number
>of hands and hopefully the number of wins.
>
>Would it be bad to sit at the same table?  With the same
>dealer...  It seems that all the hands wouldn't be as much
>independant events as if one person played twice as many hands,
>since the outcome of every 2 hands would be related to each other.
> (...)
Based on my own limited experience my partner and I seem to reduce
the swings in our combined winnings when we play at the same table.
I'm guessing this is because high counts often indicate a higher
probability of a BJ, if alone at the table, the BJ could be yours or
it could be the dealers.  (The expected value is pos. because you
get paid 3-2, while the dealer only wins even money) With your partner
at the table "one of you becomes" more likely to get the BJ than the
dealer alone.

The other possibilities of playing together (seperate counts, spreading
to force better penetration, etc.) might add to the benefit as well.

This is all experiential and I think it would be very interesting to
see the results of simulating team play at a single table vs different
tables.  The analysis could also compare two players each using strategy
variation based on count to one player doing startegy variation and one
using basic strategy but maintaing an auxilliary count (insurance or
over/under).  What do you think Michael?

Eric J. Splaver
eric@hup.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,ont.forsale,misc.forsale
From: oz@ursa.sis.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit)
Subject: Re: Lotto 6/49 Analysis - Ontario
Organization: York U. Student Information Systems Project
	<29JUL199209363928@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:47:07 GMT

GREG KIMNACH writes:

   A couple of years ago we went to the Ohio Lottery offices to get a print-
   out of all the Super Lotto numbers that were drawn.  We found that the 
   distribution of the numbers was uniform--as expected--and that any such 
   gimmick to pick a set of "best numbers" is absolutely absurd.  Except for 
   the people collecting money from such software and book sales!

Talking about books and lotteries, one cannot help but wish that
John Allen Paulos's excellent book "Innumeracy"[1] was made into
required reading for anyone over fourteen. In any case, overflow
hardcover edition of this book may be found in bookstores for as
little as $1.50, which even in full cover price, is a much, much
better investment than a copy of Fusari's "analysis" and numbers.

Satisfaction is guaranteed. ;-)

oz
---
[1] Paulos, John Allen. Innumeracy : Mathematical Illiteracy and
    its Consequences. Hill and Wang, New York, 1988.
---
There is always enough random success | electric oz@sis.yorku.ca
to justify almost anything to someone | ph [416] 723 2100 x33976
who wants to believe. -- J. A. Paulos | other  oz@nexus.yorku.ca
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Lotto Numbers Played Info?
Summary: What numbers do players pick?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:32:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

All this discussion of the Lotto number book has gotten me to thinking.
As one poster pointed out, some numbers are used by players more often
than others. For example, the numbers 1-12 and 1-31 are often picked as
birthdays, 7 and 3 are "lucky" numbers, etc.

What I'd like to know is if the states make available the relative
frequency of number picks by the players. Anyone know if they release
that info?  Texas is starting a Lotto soon, in addition to the scratch &
win games (two of which have $1 million as top prize, paid as a lump sum
of $800k to you, $200k to the IRS) and I'd like to have a set of numbers
that are the least frequently picked ones to maximize expectation. {I
wonder when I should double down and when I should just stand :-) :-) }

Since California has a demographic makeup similar to Texas (i.e. large
populations of Hispanics, Asians, Blacks, Yuppies, TechnoWeenies, etc.)
as opposed to, say, Minnesota, which is 99% WASP.  {No criticism of
Minnesota implied.}  In Texas, Hispanics are heavy players of the
lottery and they have an interesting set of "lucky numbers", etc.

Note: I am fully aware that the Lotto is negative expectation.  I view
it as a form of voluntary taxation, with the chance to retire thrown in.
Beats sales and property tax.

-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
|   **** Papoon for President! You Know He's Not Insane!! ****
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Request:  8-deck basic strategy.
Date: 27 Jul 1992 18:22:47 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

Could someone please post or send me the correct basic strategy for 8-deck
blackjack?  This is assuming that it is different than that for single deck...


Because sometimes Nevada is very far away....


---Sean

-- 
"I believe in the rights of people to own firearms....  Private guns makes
every person equal, no matter what/who he/she is."	---Lu Gang, post-
doctoral student in Physics at the University of Iowa, who shot and killed two
of his professors, a rival post-doc, two staff, and then himself in 1991.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: 900073s@dragon.acadiau.ca (Donald Smith)
Subject: Lotto 6/49. Statistical Analysis Done on "10 years of Data"
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:31:01 GMT


 Forwarded from a friend Math Student, (I'm in comp myself, so hardly qualified
to do this... ;-)


----------------------
From 890232a Tue Jul 28 11:54:10 1992
Received: by dragon.acadiau.ca id AA18973
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for 900073s); Tue, 28 Jul 1992 11:54:06 -0300
From: Steve Astels <890232a>
Message-Id: <199207281454.AA18973@dragon.acadiau.ca>
Subject: Re: Help me!! ;-)
To: 900073s (Donald Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 11:54:05 ADT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: OR

I performed a standard statistical test on the data, and the results
said (basically) that there is no way in hell that you can conclude that
the balls do not come out in a TOTALLY random order.

Let's put it this way: If you *were* to decide that the data is *not*
random, there is a 57.34% chance that you would be wrong. (odds NO
statistician would find acceptable)

If I were you I would
  (a) apologize to the guy/gal
  (b) not buy any 6/49 tickets


Really though, the number u gave were much more randomly distributed than
a lot of random number generators I've seen (and used!)... perhaps we
should get one of those drums hooked up to the dragon...


-- Steve


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                             |                                             |
+       Stephen Astels        +       "I am the lizard king,                +
|                             |        I can do anything..."                |
+     890232a@acadiau.ca      +                      - Jim Morrison         +
|                             |                                             |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
---------------


 So there we go ;-) 
-- 
 My .sig file was too long so I canned it.  Mail me if you want it. *grin*
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ed@weir.pa.dec.com (Ed Gould)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Head Up Hold'em
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:55:20 GMT
Reply-To: ed@pa.dec.com
Organization: DEC Network Systems Lab, Palo Alto

> I agree with Michael that 7-8 of clubs or spades is best.

I could buy this argument, but I suggested AC KC so as to reduce the
chance of the opponent making trip aces, hence also reducing the chance of
them making a boat.  I haven't attempted to analize if this is worth more
than the better straight draw of keeping 7-8 suited black.

--
Ed Gould	  ed@pa.dec.com		Digital Equipment Corporation
+1 415 688 1309	  Network Systems Lab	505 Hamilton Ave, Palo Alto, CA  94301

"Unison is only one form of harmony." -- LW
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: moo@king.eng.umd.edu (Deac Moo of the UGC)
Subject: Re: Look, Ma , one hand!
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:31:54 GMT
Organization: Computer Aided Design Lab, U. of Maryland College Park
Reply-To: moo@king.eng.umd.edu

In article <1992Jul28.032851.2774@ultra.com>, howard@sinoda.ultra.COM (Howard Simonson) writes:
>3.  BJ'ers have PRESTO!, what should us craps players adopt to identify
>    other rec.gamblers at the table?

Obviously, we need something swinging, unlike the terse one-word identifer
(blackjack players, being too busy counting cards to do something complicated,
needa keep it simple :). 

Might I suggest "Snake-eyes and a hot babe on the side..."
or		"Six the hardways, all night long..."
or		"I can come all night long."

	                *** MOO@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU***
Heaven: Playing craps with HotBabes(tm) screaming "I want you to come for MEEE."
From: bruceh@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Bruce Hayek)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Very Short Poker Quiz
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:26:08 GMT
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA


Jim,

You are half right.  In your first example, you definitely raise
on the button.  Assuming you can get just 4 callers, you are
getting favorable payback on your bet -- you have about a 
31% chance of making a straight with two cards coming.

BUT (and we all have a big but)

If there are two suited cards on the flop, the whole scenario changes
because making your straight could give somebody else a flush.

Also, your second example is wrong -- if the flop comes 10 J Q and you
have an A-8, you do have an open-ended straight draw but making your
9 is not very good, because you're beaten by any K.  This is really
only a closed end straight draw -- you need your king to have the
nuts (assuming no flushes.)  Based on other action, you may determine
that somebody else has a King, in which case there could be only
two or three kings left to draw to.

The free card on the turn is definitely an advantage, but counter it
against the risk that if I'm at the table and you raise on the
button, I'm probably gonna make it three bets and try to scare everyone
out to protect my one pair (or whatever.)  

What it comes down to is judgement.  I love the button, because plays
like this start making sense.  For example, if I have a four-flush
and somebody bets early, if there are three callers I'll raise.
Assuming my raise get three calls, I'm getting favorable payback on my
chances of making the flush.  But what if the guy who first bet reraises
me?  Well, if I get just one or two callers in between, I'll still make
it four bets, because now the guy is a lot more likely to check the
turn.  Besides, I've capped it and know that he can't raise me back.

And, when the rest of the table catches you making some play like this,
they'll pay you off for hours!  ;-)

- b (of course, heads up I go 10 bets with a straight draw) h
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: EGG9EJS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Re: Single deck vs. Multi deck
Reply-To: eric@hup.ucla.edu
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:20:46 PDT

In article <1992Jul28.010532.27343@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, on 28 Jul 1992 01:05:32 GMT,
hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:

>
>In article <1992Jul24.155613.5657@athena.cs.uga.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>>
>>The FAQ is quite interesting.  However, there is nothing abou the difference
>>between single and multi deck games for black jack.  Besides the number of
>>decks, could someone offer their expertise about the advantages of single
>>deck games.
>
>No one has responded to this post yet?
>
>You're right, the FAQ doesn't have one of the most common FAQ's:
>"What's the difference between single deck and multiple deck blackjack?"
>
>There are some surface differences, such as single and double deck usually
>being hand-held, while four or more decks are dealt from a shoe, but
>there are fundamental mathematical differences too.
>
>Single deck blackjack is usually better than multiple deck blackjack
>for card counters, basic strategists, and the clueless.  Additional decks
>make busts less likely, since one can draw to hands like 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2
>half the marbles: what is the probability that all the remaining marbles
>are white?  In the 1 and 1 case, there is a 1 in 2 chance.  In the 100 and
>100 case, there is only a 1 in 100,891,344,545,564,193,334,812,497,256 chance!
> (additional lines deleted ...
>
Another important difference to the counter is the concentration
required to count down a multi-deck shoe.  A single deck, particularly
with a full table of players, will have only two hands dealt between
shuffles, hence only one hand (and possibly a few extra cards) need be
counted between shuffling breaks.  Compare that to a six deck shoe with
around with eight or nine hands.  I find that I'm only up to the shoe
games for a few hours a day, while I can play the single deck for a lot
longer.

Eric J. Splaver
eric@hup.ucla.edu
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Maxim in LAV
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:44:36 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Does anyone know about or have experiece with the Maxim hotel in Las Vegas? 
I'm considering their 22.50 rooms for the weekdays in August.

BlackjacK:
		1)  Single deck  games?

		2)  Rules?

		
What type of people generally stay there? 

ted
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jlayland@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (James Layland)
Subject: Re: Head Up Hold'em
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:50:39 GMT

Switch your hand to black suited connectors (that won't need
an ace for a straight) e.g. 6c 7c.

Against Kc Ks, red aces win about 81% of the time.
Against 6c 7c, red aces win only (?) 77% of the time.

Either way, you need a _whole lot_ of help.

James Layland              jlayland@grissom.jpl.nasa.gov
"Witty .sig available on request.  Send $19.95 to ..."

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: bobm@hpcvxbm.cv.hp.com (Bob May)
Subject: Re: Look, Ma , one hand!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:00:55 GMT

elliott@aero.org (Kenneth B. Elliott III) writes:
> 
> Anyone else notice that habitual don't players (generally they look
> about 127 and are smoking a mile a minute) stand over by the dealers?
> Don't talk much, don't smile much; hmmm, don't do much of anything.
> Maybe they're trying to hide?

   Having once been a "habitual don't player" (But I'm much better now - 
   losing $300 in <15 minutes will make you go cold turkey in a hurry :-)
   I think that it's just easier to make your odds bets, up/down calls on 
   don't come, etc. from this position. True or not, I've found that
   a lot of dealers get "stupid" when dealing with don't bettors - forcing 
   you to carefully explain *exactly* what you want, while perfectly 
   understanding the drunk at the end of the table who wants to buy the 4/10,
   place the inside and cover the horn, all signified by grunting and tossing
   a black chip in the Field...

   Bob May
   bobm@cv.hp.com
From: hebo@hp850.mbari.org (Bob Herlien)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Want Location of Unusual Games in LV
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:01:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute

In article <5787@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> hebo@hp850.mbari.org (Bob Herlien) writes:
> (about Fast-action Hold-em )
>Wins/losses are at even money.
>
I almost forgot:  the house takes a 5% commision when you win, same as
Pai-Gow poker.  This is where they make their money.  Except for this, this
game appears to have a player advantage, due to the payoff on 4 of a kind
and the option to double.  Anybody care to analyze this game?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Herlien
MBARI (Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute)
hebo@mbari.org
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."