From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Casement update
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:53:34 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1993Jan23.110947.11481@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <C19GJC.HLp@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
>writes:
>> In article <CC.93Jan22103744@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris
>Cooke) writes:
>>>Genuine question: *were* they shot by the IRA?  The media here has always
>>>given the impression that the two men were ripped apart limb from limb by an
>>>angry crowd, rather than shot.
>> 
>> 
>> The whole incidient is on film. The soldiers ( not in uniform) did
>> not "drive into" the cortege. They drove towards it, tried to reverse
>> away, were pulled from their cars, stripped and beaten and then shot.
>> As I remember, they were shot only yards from the car, not taken away.
>
>You're a bit off beam here Morna -- the initial, highly dramatic,
>part of the incident is on film and was seen on the news.  

I may well be ( though I'm nor sure what "off beam" means), but I'm not
attempting to say what I think you think I'm attempting to say!


>However,
>that is only part of the story and is very misleading. The
>corporals were taken away after the initial beating, in taxis (I
>think one of the people in jail now is one of the taxi-drivers), to
>Casement Park, where they were shot, some not inconsiderable time
>later (c. 30mins). I.E. after the initial wild reaction, a certain
>amount of organisation kicked in.

OK - I didn't remember that.

>
>You also have to remember the context  -- three ugly violent
>incidents in the space of a very few days. They were actually
>burying someone who had been killed by the mad loyalist gunman, who
>came shooting and lobbing grenades at them, the same people, the
>last time they were burying someone. No wonder the crowd reaction
>was that they were under attack again.


I am not disputing this. Is this the same  "mad loyalist
gunman", who was a disturbed policeman on sick leave and later killed
himself before he could be arrested? He was indeed mad.

>
>And yes, the soldiers were armed, and perversely, this probably
>killed them. One of the soldiers produced his gun and this
>convinced the crowd that they were under attack a second time. 

Sounds quite plausible. I am not disputing that the soldier pulled his
gun. I do not think he shot at anyone, though I'm sure that will be easy
for the court to ascertain. What I am disputing is Mark Holohans picture 
of these dreadful events.

>
>It's a really weird incident, and its dramatic nature excited huge
>revulsion. But I think the crowd reaction, however ugly, is
>distinctly less evil than, for instance, the pair of IRA gunman who
>lay in wait for hours, to assassinate a young woman member of the
>RUC or UDR, just the previous evening.
>

Or the murderers who shot two young women in a chip van, or
the ones who shot another woman making tea for a crippled friend last
week.


etc 
etc
etc


M

-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.