From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Will's appalling attitude toward women (Was: FOCA: And I quote....)
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:13:54 GMT

In <1992Sep11.151307.6969@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:


>pn>In article <nyikos.716065542@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>ws>>From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)

>ws>And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say that in my own
>ws>situation, if the woman had *not* been so respecting as to tell me before,
>ws>but in fact had not only told me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!)
>ws>or more, I probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
>ws>stood.

>pn>This is all in the past tense.  The context strongly seems to indicate
>pn> that Will's whole outlook has radically
>pn>changed since these unfortunate events.  In fact, I recall in an earlier
>pn>post that he said he suffered a nervous breakdown in the wake of the whole
>pn>unfortunate incident to which he alludes.  "I probably would have snapped
>pn>right there" is an indication of what an overwrought emotional state he
>pn>was in.

>I see nothing that shows Will's outlook has changed let alone 
>radically.  Of course it is in the past tense because that is when
>this experience happened to him.  I see nothing in anything that he 
>wrote that shows he would not be tempted to kill another woman
>that fails to give him the respect he deserves. 

And I have seen nothing in anything he wrote that shows he would be tempted.
If you are agreeable, I will take an e-mailing (or hard copy mailing) 
from Will Steeves of everything he has written that seems at all 
relevant to this issue, and report back to you once I have had a 
chance to digest it all.  I encourage you to do the same, mutatis
mutandis.  [Latin for: changing whatever (pronouns, in this case) needs
to be changed.] 

Will, if you are listening, you may start collecting the materials now.

> I see a huge
>difference between having an overwrought emotional state and a 
>desire to kill a woman for not showing the proper respect. 

So do I, but I believe he did not use the word "respect" in such a
broad sense.  The context is, this woman would have "killed his unborn
baby," as he had come to see it, and not EVEN shown him so much respect
as to tell him about it beforehand--a classic case of adding insult
to injury, but I believe that the reason for the killing would have 
been 99% the injury and 1% the added insult.

 I realize that you may sincerely see things differently from me,
but I am telling you that this is the way I have read his statement
ever since I saw it in context.

>pn>What Will wrote here was definitely not a threat, it was a (probably
>pn>exaggerated) look in hindsight at what could have happened to a mentally
>pn>unbalanced Will Steeves.  

>What Will write above is definitely a threat.  If I knew a woman
>that was starting a relationship with Will and I showed her this
>article, do you believe she would not feel threatened?

To be fair to Will, you should also be willing to show her a lot
else, including this post of mine.

>  Again,
>no matter how unbalanced Will was, it does not excuse his threat
>of killing a woman for not showing him respect.  

Again, you and I differ as to the interpretation of what he said.

>pn>People can go through hellish trials and tribulations and emerge far
>pn>more exemplary human beings because of them.  I still feel deep down
>pn>inside that Will is one of these, although you may note that I hedged
>pn>my bets by saying "about 99% of the time."

>We have completely different feelings toward Will's attitude in regard
>to women.

>I still don't see you answering the question I originally asked.  Has
>Adrienne ever written anything as appalling as Will did?  You said you 
>would answer the question, but instead you make excuses for Will`s
>article.  

Well, since we differ so much as to the interpretation of what Will
wrote, all I can say is, from my point of view, yes.  To get some
idea of what, see my post in follow-up to Adrienne's in the "Peter,
do you even know how to read?" thread.  Yes, I knew how to read
Bill Overpeck's posts, although if I had a chance to read them again
and (especially) hear Adrienne's response to them, I might come
away with a different opinion of Adrienne than my present one.

>pn>Peter Nyikos

>Dan King

By the way, thanks again for posting Will's entire post.

Peter Nyikos


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