From: clarka@netcom.com (Andrew Clark)
Subject: Re: Btech/RoboTech comparison
Summary: interesting 
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:05:04 GMT

lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex) writes:

>    Let's see how a few of the mech(a) compare, with just 3025
> TECHnology (I don't have the 3055 readout, so I can't use the values
> of the IIC Clan variants).
> 
>            STG-3R Stinger     VF-1A Veritech/Valkyrie(*)
> 
> Weight:     20 tons            18.5 tons
> Speed:      91.6 kph max       96.5 kph max
> Armour:     48 pts + 21 IS     1149 pts (not counting gun/util arms)
> Weaponry:    9 pts max damage  80 pts max damage
> Range:      270m max           1200m max
>
> (* All stats are for Battloid mode only.  I'm not going to bother
> comparing it to the Stinger LAM.)

Let's see.  A heavy machine gun in Robotech does 2d6 MDC; a light
anti-tank rocket does 1d6; an infantry recoiless rifle does 1d10.
(These are the numbers I recall, at least.)

The same weapons in BTECH do 2pts, a chance of 1 pt, and a
large chance of 1 pt in damage, respectively.   

Comparing armored fighting vehicles, a BTECH tank has perhaps
100 points of armor, where a Robotech tank has 50 MDC.

Reasonable (but very debatable) conversion factors would be
  two points of Robotech armor = 1 point of Battletech armor
  three MDC damage = 1 point Battletech damage

The Stinger inflicts 27 MDC per Robotech turn (9 * 2 * 1.5 since
Robotech turns are 15 seconds compared to 10 for Btech) to a unit
with over 1000 MDC.  

The Veritech inflicts ~18 points per Btech turn (80 * 1/3 * 2/3)
to a Stinger with only 69 points of armor/IS. 

BTW, I think that Robotech armor is far too heavy.  The game isn't
very fun when your personal mecha can soak up hits and laugh.

Cut armor to 40% of list values and combat goes much faster.

>    ][n weight and speed they're about equal.  Armour and weaponry
> can't really be compared, unless you figure out a conversion between
> BTech points and RTech MDC.  If you compare the amount of damage each
> of these can do in one turn to another of the same mech(a) in its
> own universe....  The Stinger can destroy almost 1/8th of another
> Stinger.  The VF-1A can destroy only about 1/14th of another VF-1A.
> Also, one RTech round is 15 seconds, compared to 10 seconds for
> BTech, so that would reduce the amount of damage over the same time
> period to 2/3rds, for all RTech weapons.  So the VF-1A would be
> reduced to about 1/21st of another VF-1A in destructive value over
> a 10 second turn.
>     _
>    (_onclusion: at close range the BTech Stinger would tear the RTech
> VF-1A apart, but at long ranges the VF-1A could simply sit back well
> out of range of the Stinger and reduce it to vapour long before it
> got in close enough to do anything.

At close ranges the Stinger would still get vaporized.  Veritechs
are capable of specific targeting on enemy units.  

"Those idiots put the pilots in the HEAD!  Morons," growls the
Veritech pilot as he leaves headless Mechs in his wake.

I'd much rather have some SERIOUS firepower to take down a Veritech;
two Leopard CV's loaded with heavy aerospace fighters, plus a
Union in the back, filled with 'Mechs to deal with the
Veritech if it tries to go to ground and hide.  That would be a fair
fight, but just barely.

>    Final note, considering technology:  Some of the RTech mecha are
> very fast, especially the Zentraedi mecha (Officer's pod runs at
> 482.7 kph -- that's 45.5 MPs in BTech terms).  Under 3025 technology,
> these mecha would run rings around the BTech mechs and easily wipe
> the board with them.  Using Clan tech (Targeting Computer, Pulse
> Lasers, improved Gunnery skills) speed advantages are all but negated.
> That's under BTech rules.  Under Rtech, the Clans would still get
> their clocks cleaned.

Why bother landing?  The ranges on Robotech weapons systems (1000 meters
and over, or 33+ Btech hexes) are MUCH better than the Btech equivalents.  
If you can use the strafing rules too, it's even easier. 

Robotech also has much better guided missiles (that do more damage.)
Maybe anti-missile systems can take them down, maybe not. 

The difference between Btech and Robotech in terms of technology is
profound.  Robotech Mecha are powered by protoculture (and have
fly-by-thought control systems that put VRPP to shame.)  Btech
mecha rely on bulky fusion engines and have constant overheating
problems; the only limitation on Veritechs seems to be ammo.

The Veritech was designed as a rugged all-purpose combat unit for
guerrilla warfare.  (Why else demand a VTOL landing mode?  Dedicated
mecha are more efficient as either fighters or ground superiority
units, not both.)  As such, it emphasized low maintenance
(no need for refueling), maneuverablity, accuracy, and all-around
capabilities. 

Btech mecha are "hand-crafted," built from the ruins of ancient
technology only partially understood.  Weapons systems are woefully
inaccurate (how many tank cannon have a max range of 500 meters today?)
and maintenance needs are staggering. 

In an Btech fight, a lone Veritech would be taken down by weight
of numbers.  Battletech mecha transplanted into the Robotech 
universe would be useful in urban areas or within a ship, but would
be nearly helpless in atmospheric or deep-space battle.

I'd rather have anime combat rules that reflect anime reality.
(Btech -- kind of, Robotech -- nice mecha, bad rules, Mekton -- ???) 
-- 
clarka@netcom.com     Andrew Clark     My ignorance is my own fault.
"We have virtual reality today: George Bush lives in it." | Bad cop! 
"Macs are to computing what television is to journalism." | No donut! 
Secondary account at aclark@UCSD.EDU -- prefer mail at netcom site.