HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davis@passy.ilog.fr (Harley Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:58:25 GMT
	<1992Sep4.130027.16220@panix.com> <1992Sep4.162256.18605@dgbt.doc.ca>
Organization: ILOG S.A., Gentilly, France
In-reply-to: ted@dgbt.doc.ca's message of 4 Sep 92 16:22:56 GMT


In article <1992Sep4.162256.18605@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:

   (Jack Szwergold) writes:
   >Excuse me but you are wrong.  Stay comfortable in your academia please. 
   >The people in Poland, for the most part, are anti-semetic.   The fact that
   >the goverment is trying to stop certain anti-semetic leaders or potential
   >leaders DOES NOT mean that it doesn't exist.  The jews that are still left
   >there are old and shellshocked relics of an era that USED to be.  Most
   >temples have bcome nothing more than old age homes and insane asylums at
   >this point.....
   >

   Are you saying that MOST Poles in Poland, TODAY are anti-semitic?
   Casual observation, I'm told, can establish that anti-semitism does
   exist.  But what observations have been made that have established
   statistically the statement you made, which is, after all a
   statistical statement.  This is not a flame.  I am genuinely
   interested in the validity of such assertions.

I saw Lech Walesa interviewed on French television last year.  He
admitted that anti-Semitism in Poland was still a large problem, and
then gave the following fascinating explanation for it: His theory
(according to the report, shared by large numbers of Poles) is that
many --- even most --- Jews were not, in fact, exterminated by the
Germans, but rather went into hiding, pretending to be "regular"
Poles.  And, apparently, they did not come out of hiding after the
war.  It is these hidden Jews, according to Walesa, who are
"responsible" for the current anti-Semitism in Poland.

As I said, a fascinating theory.  And a revolting one as well, since
it mixes fantastic revisionism with a "blame-the-victims" explanation.

-- Harley Davis
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nom: Harley Davis			ILOG S.A.
net: davis@ilog.fr			2 Avenue Gallie'ni, BP 85
tel: (33 1) 46 63 66 66			94253 Gentilly Cedex, France
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed)
Subject: References and background for capsule history of Polish Jews
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:00:48 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Keywords: Converts to Judaism Radziwill Potocki anti-Semitism Roman Catholic Church

> > 4. During the 16th and 17th centuries many prominent Poles
> > converted to Judaism. The Roman Catholic Church responded with
> > massive propaganda, originally directed against Judaism but
> > eventually against Jews. The preaching of anti-Jewish propaganda
> > by the Church continued well into the second half of the 20th
> > century, and ended, for the most part, only when the Church
> > officially repudiated anti-Semitism at the Second Vatican
> > Council.

mark@csc.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
> Where can I find more on this?

W. Dobosiewicz writes:
> One name, please. Not that I contest the fact,
> I am just curious to know.

In checking the references on this, I found that the conversions
continued well into the 18th century. The most prominent of the
converts were Marcin Radziwill and Walenty Potocki. The wave of
conversions caused an official investigation in Lithuania. Most
Jewish histories mention, in this connection, that in searching
for subpoenaed converts the Lithuanian authorities raided the
strong rooms of many Jewish communities; no converts were found,
but the investigators pilfered many fortunes' worth of money and
valuables. Unfortunately, someone has borrowed my copy of

S. M. Dubnow: History of the Jews in Russia and Poland from the
earliest times until the present day. (Russian original circa
1910(?), English translation: Philadelphia, Jewish Publication
Society, 1946).

so I can't look up the dates and pages. Interestingly, as far as
I remember, Dubnow treats the whole issue of conversions to
Judaism as a non-event blown up to create an excuse for raiding
Jewish community strong-rooms; he does not even mention Marcin
Radziwill among the converts - Radziwill's conversion is
noted in

T. Nowakowski: The Radziwills; the social history of a great
European family.  (German original: Munich, R. Piper & Co.,
1966; English translation: New York, Dell Publishing Co., 1974).

The latter book is rather ornamental, but for anyone who does
not already know about the role of magnate families like the
Radziwills and the Potockis in Polish society it provides useful
insights. After you read it, you won't wonder why the Church was
worried.
			Adam_V_Reed@ATT.com
From: friedenb@sparrow.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Clinton Speech at Notre Dame University (Sept 11)
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:53:47 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@sparrow.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

This afternoon I was watching a live speech delivered by Bill Clinton
at Notre Dame University's 150th birthday celebration.  Being a 
Catholic school, religion played a strong part in the speech.  

At a rather effective part in the speech he quoted Rabbi Hillel 
from Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) "Im ain ani li mi li..."
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me; and if I am only for
myself, what am I."  

It was placed rather dramatically at a point in the speech when 
he was discussing Notre Dame students' committment to community
service.  

Clinton also made reference to Cain and Able, remarking that we are
all our brothers' keeper.

Although much of the religious quotes that he used were to play
to that particular crowd, I liked it.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15911 alt.conspiracy:10617
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy
Subject: DiNardo's paranoid fantasies
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:59:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep14.175845.27153@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jad@cbnewsl.cb.att.com 
(John DiNardo) writes, in response to my question:

#>Who is John DiNardo?  I sent e-mail asking why this material is on s.c.j.,
#>and got no response.  I remember once a while back some people tried to
#>track down John DiNardo or at least find out whether he exists.  Can any
#>of our Bell Labs correspondents find out for us?

#     Of course I exist. I don't answer every e-mail message that doesn't
#     deserve an answer!  Do you think you have a right to an answer to 
#     your arrogant question: "Why is this material being posted to s.c.j.?"
#     You aren't the inquisitor-general of soc.culture.jewish, and you
#     don't intimidate me at all with your veiled threat?  Why would
#     you want to get Bell Labs to find out if I exist if you don't intend
#     to threaten my right to free expression?

#     The reasons for my posting this series to s.c.j. are quite obvious.
#     You are insulting the memory of many victims by trying to shut me up. . . 

#     So when you get someone from Bell Labs to find out where I'm at --
#     DO something about it!  Have me punished for speaking out.
#     I've long since made contact with the American Civil Liberties Union
#     in anticipation of anyone's use of gestapo tactics against my
#     Constitutional rights.

I never threatened Mr. DiNardo with anything, nor do I intend to.  I asked him
a perfectly civil question:  what does all this have to do with the content
of s.c.j.?  It's not obvious to me why this material is particularly 
appropriate.  The question is not one of rights, but of responsibilities.
Actually, it's not all that clear to me that someone posting to internet 
necessarily retains his or her first amendment rights, especially someone 
posting from a private company.  But be that as it may.  What gestapo tactics
have I used?  How have I tried to shut DiNardo up?  Why would I care to, 
anyway, since it would be easier simply to do what everyone else does, i.e. 
ignore him entirely?  Does Bell Labs have a special EEO program for the 
paranoid?

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:28:01 GMT

goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:

>matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:

>>Do you have statistics indicating "that the individual poles were
>>anti-semitic"? I mean, what percentage were so, to what extent, etc.

>   I do, or, well, I almost could have.

So, YOURS are just EMPTY WORDS. As long as you fail to support your
views with evidence (and no, a small sample of individuals selected in
a non-random and biased way does not even make a rough approximation).

>Indeed, statistically, can YOU tell
>how many Jewish children that were massacred by Poles during pogroms, or
>denied University studies by "non antisemitic" numerus clausus directed
>against Jews for clearly non antisemitic reasons (?!?!?!), were born with
>the dream to collect these statistics and write the beautiful book you ask
>about?

A few days ago W.Dobosiewicz quoted from a pre-WWII Polish Yearbook:

| Nonetheless, the number of Jewish university students (by religion)
| dropped from 9.7 thousand in 1932 to 4.8 thousand in 1937 (but still,
| Jews accounted for 10% of all students and 9.8% of the population).
| In year 1936/37, exactly 25% of PhD given by universities in Poland went
| to people of "Moses faith".


MB
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:18:50 GMT

In article <frank2.3@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za> frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:

[Re: bar mitzvahs]

>Decorations, invitations, food and speeches revolve around themes such as 
>Disney, space, chess, etc. There appears to be little awareness of the 
>mitzvah itself.
>
>Is this something we have imported from elsewhere, or can we claim the 
>questionable honour of having developed this all by ourselves?

This has been a problem in at least some parts of the U.S. for a while.  I
didn't run into it when I lived in the Bay Area (though Berkeley is not
exactly your typical American town) but it's rampant in Los Angeles and my
mother suggests that it's not unknown in New York.  I think it comes largely
from parents who view a bar mitzvah as a big birthday party.  Couple that
with kids whose major interest is what gifts they'll get and the tendency
of parents and children to try "keeping up with the Cohens" (i.e. "but 
David's parents took everyone to Disneyland for *his* bar mitzvah so you
have to at least get a magician") you get these absurd events.  I have a 
friend who makes a living as a gorilla (he's an actor, he has a gorilla suit,
there's more to life than luggage commercials) and he gets lots of bar
mitzvah bookings.

Miriam Nadel  


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:00:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.223756.9508@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>	...
>
>Now we are talking about shul politics, and shul politics exist in
>orthodox shuls as well.
>

I have always joked that Politics are as old as the human race.
Go back to Adam and Eve, Cain and Able. You had 4 people in the
world (all right add a couple more for their twin sisters - Rashi).
Each one of them could have taken 1/4 of the Planet Earth for themselves,
at the least an entire continent. They could have lived in their own
continent forever and Cain would never have to see Able again. There
certainly was enough resources for the 4 of them.

But no, this wasn't good enough. Cain still had to kill Able!

I once made the mistake of going to a shul meeting. There must have been
10-20 people there, and I can honestly say that noone could agree on
anything.

I remember saying to myself, that if a small group of 10-20 people
can't agree on anything, then (kal v'chomer) imagine how much more
difficult it must be for the 500 members of Congress to agree on
anything! No wonder they never get anything done.

Food for thought:
IS there more politics among the O, C, or R? And why?

Hayim Hendeles
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Location of Eden (Re: Torah In A Torah Context)
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:25:57 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <BuHr3A.97A@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:

>God can keep us from seeing Eden.  But then why tell us so much about it,
>and why have it guarded by winged creatures instead of just putting up
>a force field?  Or even just remove it from earth?

How do we know that winged angels are not a metaphor for a force field?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Blowing The Shofar At Home During Elul
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-949]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:38:56 GMT

>> 
>> Since when is blowing Shofar during Elul a mitzvah?
>

Well, the Shulchan Aruch says one should do so, in order to awaken
thoughts of teshuvah.
David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Dvar Torah ...
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:53:49 GMT

dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
> Are you sure you have these right?  It certainly makes the book title
> "Chafetz Chayim" sound pretty vulgar!  If your translation is proper,
> why didn't he (was it R. Yosef Caro?) call the book "Chashak Chayim"?

Don't be ridiculous.  It was the Chafetz Chayim who wrote the book.  :-)

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Jewish Popes?
Keywords: Jewish pope
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 20:13:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.160626.19146@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com>
lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (myself) I write a shaggy dog story about
Rabbi Magnin, concluding with the line:

>
>"You see, gentlemen, the problem is that _I_ don't wear a kippah!"

Sigh.  Of course, I blew the punch line.  Rabbi Magnin would have said
"yarmulke", not "kippah".
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:26:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.132615.22235@funet.fi> defee@tukkasotka.tut.fi
(Irek Defee) writes:

>Here again, there are some debatable issues when making such general 
>comparisons: Jewish population in Poland was much bigger, both in numbers
>and in percentage than in France (in Warsaw alone there were more Jews 
>living than in the whole France). Jews living in Poland were strictly 
>different ethnic/religious group, mostly unassimilated, completely separated
>by language, school system, orthodox religion - a separate society. It
>was not the same case in France, which makes comparisons difficult since
>the more ethnic separation, the more inevitable and stronger the tensions are.
>If such things are considered in absolute terms ("even one case of antisemitism
>is enough"), then e.g. Spain would emerged as best - no Jews, no antisemitism.

I see.  So because there werwe more Jews, and these Jews were more visibly
Jewish, antisemitism in Poland was OK, acceptable, or to be expected????
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hjb@levi.th.vu.nl (Hendrik Jan Bosman)
Subject: jewish last name Spetter:dutch or yiddish?/inscription on tombstone
Organization: Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam - Faculty Of Theology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:40:22 GMT

For a while I have been trying to find information on the origins
of the family name of a friend of mine, who is from jewish descent.
(I am not going to conduct a full genealogical search, I just want
to find out the etymological background of the name).

I don't have much to go by, just a picture of a barely readable
tombstone in The Hague. The last name, 'Spetter', is spelt
shin (or sin, I can't tell)-peh-ayin-tet-tet-ayin-resh. This can
hardly be a Hebrew word; it must be either Dutch or Yiddish.

In Dutch 'Spetter' means something like 'drop (of liquid)', 'splash'.
It is a normal word, but used as a name has a rather comical feel to
it. This is in itself possible: when Napoleon introduced obligatory
last names in 1811, many Dutch people registered under mock names, not
taking the new institution seriously (much to the chagrin of the later
generations who have inherited these rather embarrassing last names up to
the present day).

In Yiddish, according to a Yiddish dictionary, the verb 'spetn'
(shin-peh-ayin-tet-nun) means 'to ridicule'. Theoretically, there
could be a Yiddish word 'spetter', meaning 'someone who ridicules',
very akin to the Dutch word 'spotter' with the same meaning.
I don't know however, if that would/could be spelled with double tet.

My question: does anybody with more knowledge of Yiddish than I do
have any suggestions as to which of the two solutions is the most
probable?

The spelling with double tet is probably decisive.

Apparently (although not beyond all doubt), my friend's relatives
have come from Spain in the 1500's. This would mean that they have
been sefardim, right? Would that affect the probability of the name
deriving from Yiddish?

Another question: On the tombstone the letters tav-nun-tsadeh-bet-heh
appear. Since they are rather far apart, they strike me as an
abbreviation of some 'standard' formula. Is that indeed the case?
If so (and if not), what would these letters mean?

Thanks in advance,

Hendrik Jan Bosman
From: frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:01:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: underdog.frank2.3
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).

An alarming trend has developed in the Jewish community in 
South Africa. Not only are inordinate amounts of money being spent on 
batmitzvah and barmitzvah receptions, but they now frequently have themes. 
Decorations, invitations, food and speeches revolve around themes such as 
Disney, space, chess, etc. There appears to be little awareness of the 
mitzvah itself.

Is this something we have imported from elsewhere, or can we claim the 
questionable honour of having developed this all by ourselves?

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
David Frank                       {} "I imagined that Ted Turner had been  
<frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>   {}  offered the post of World President -
University of the Witwatersrand   {}  but had rejected it, because he didn't
Johannesburg                      {}  want to give up power" Arthur C. Clarke
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ps:	If you send me a picture postcard to the following address, I'll 
	send one right back to you.

			David Frank
			91 Mowbray Road
			Johannesburg
			2193
			South Africa
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Subject: Bar-Ilan Responsa on CD-ROM (was:Re: Otzar Haposkim)
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:34:54 GMT

In article <4158@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>Forauthorize details write to
>    Rabbi Yakov winberger
>       Responsa project
>        Bar Ilan University
>                 Ramat gan  Israel
>
>( They have a dealler at the US , but I don't know his addresss)

The Bar-Ilan Global Jewish Database (including Tanach, Talmud Bavli
with Rashi, Rambam, midrash and 253 volumes of responsa) is available
for $1299 from Kabbalah Software, 8 Price Drive, Edison, NJ 08817
(908) 572-0891 voice 572-0869 fax kabbalah@israel.nysernet.org e-mail.
It requires a PC with Windows. 

A version without the responsa but with Yerushalmi is $499.

UnDisclaimer: Kabbalah Software is my wife's company, and I demoed
it at the Jewish Renaissance Fair in Morristown (NJ) on Sunday.
>


-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Moshiach Educational Line 1-800-4-MOSHIACH
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-24934]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:06:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.165045.17527@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> jpw@minerva.ece.drexel.edu (Joseph Wetstein) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.043841.15289@cs.tulane.edu> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:
>>There is a new toll-free line with a five minute message about
>>concepts, laws, etc. concerning Moshiach. The message changes weekly,
>>and you can leave a comment or request further information.
>
>I have a strong feeling that this is a Jews for Jesus line. It just
>has that tone. Comments?

ABSOLUTELY WRONG! As a matter of fact, it is as far from J4J as you
can get. In fact, they'd be pretty upset by some of the messages to
come.

It's sponsored by Chabad.
It explains Moshiach from the Jewish viewpoint, quoting Rambam,
Talmud, Zohar, etc.

The messages are necessarily short, and do not go into all the detail
needed, but they provide some answers and a start for dialogue.

CAll it and see for yourself.

1-8-00-4-MOSHIACH

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish