HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Age-ism and the gay community
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:34:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.172122.5221@macc.wisc.edu>
     anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

   [ Lots and lots of wonderful things, all of which make sense to me.
Gods, I hope I get there someday. ]

>Hairlessness is in the genes; why hold someone accountable?

   I suppose I might get into trouble for this-- No, I *know* I am.
Jess, one of the things that bothers me most about seeing this line,
especially in something you write, is that, for me, it's painfully
obvious that along with simple things like hairlessness, eye color, and
height, _race_ is "in the genes."

   So is sex.  Male or female, something in the genes.  For me, it's
ridiculous to hold someone accountable for that, too...

   Onwards...

>     nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>>Bear magazine seems to have a few models who are over 30, but still
>>nothing like what I'm interested in.  There has to be erotica/porn
>>featuring "older men" - but where?

   Actually, Nelson, up here in Seattle we've had two sudden surges of
"older men" porn... a magazine called "Classics," which is now in its
second issue, featuring exclusively men over 50, I beleive.  The first
issue's cover model was a little like a Santa-on-a-Harley, and I had a
strong visceral reaction to it.  Very nice... the second issue's cover
was even yummier.

   There's also a text magazine (yes, you have to _read_ it :-) called
"Silver Balls."  It's quite amusing, especially the cartoons...

>>>Why is the criteria for gay men over the age of 21 is to
>>>find a man over the age of 21?

   Funny, I was 24 when I took my first lover, and he was 17.  Age has
almost never meant much to me.  Then again, most of my lovers I've met
over the 'net, where the only -ism I can be accused of is
intellectualism.  Or perhaps just literacy-ism?  In Nelson's case,
things are just a little bit different.  He's still got a brilliant
mind, and I love reading what he has to say, so that turns me on... but
he put his photo in the motss archive and that hair is *just* to die
for.

   But then, almost anyone can grow long hair.

<> Sanity is a cozy lie.  - Susan Sontag

   I'll leave that one up there.

         Elf !!!
--
elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg)

Then, I was inspired.               God, thy will is hard
Now, I'm sad and tired.             But you hold every card.
Listen, surely I've exceeded        I will drink your cup of poison.
Expectations.                       Nail me to your cross and break me.
Tried for three years,              Bleed me, beat me.
Seems like thirty.                  Kill me.
Could you ask as much               Take me now.
From any other man?                 Before I change my mind.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:28:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.112426.28215@fcom.cc.utah.edu> freier@mail.physics.utah.edu (rodney james freier) writes:
>In article <Bzyo91.3x4@agora.rain.com>, bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>|> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>|> 
>|> >	Person 1: What do you want for dinner?
>|> >	Person 2: I dunno, what do yOU want for dinner?
>|> >	Person 1: (Realizing that this is an infinite loop)
>|> >			White Castle Burgers it is!
>|> 
>     [stuff deleted.  sue me]
>
>|> Brent, shuddering that someone would actually *eat* one of those greasy
>|> little patties of fat
>
>  Ha!  You'll forgive me if this is only marginally related... please?
>Anyway,  I took a nutrition class in which the teacher tried various
>interesting methods of making us take her info seriously.  So, in
>order to make us truly understand the amount of fat fast food generally
>contains, she did this:  For every burger, sandwich, etc., she wanted to
>talk about, she filled test tubes with an amount of crisco equal to
>the amount of fat you would be consuming were you to eat said item.  These
>test tubes were about an inch in diameter and about five inches long.
>   She talked about the whopper, for example, and then held up a test tube
>filled about half way.  The students were a little queasy after a few
>of these revelations, but that did not compare at all to the disgust
>generated when she talked about Wendy's tripple with cheese.  With a 
>look of giddy amazement, she held up TWO COMPETELY FILLED TUBES!  The
>groans were in themselves sickening.

Well, I went to a nutrition class where the teacher, Nurse Rachet, in
order to make the students really understand greasy hamburgers, gave
each student a HOT SOAPY ENEMA with enough soap to dissolve all the
grease from a hamburger from each restaurant of their choice. After we
were all thoroughly degreased, she decided to demonstrate to us how
much sugar was in different soft drinks by making a PINK CANDY DILDO
out of equivalents of 1 litre bottles chosen by each person among
Coke, Pepsi, and others, and forcing the students to sit on them until
dissolved. I won't even mention what we had to eat when studying
personal uncircumcised penile hygene based on days-between-washings.
Suffice it to say, I have had a phobia of OYSTER-FLAVORED CORNBREAD
ever since.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:42:57 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1htb6aINN84f@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>> You're obviously not interested in any type intercourse concerning the
>> amendment -- you just want to find someone on whom you can use your
>> 'insults du jour'.

>An interesting comment for someone who's had only flames to 
>contribute...

Well, thank goodness the kill fill didn't compile (needed to alter some
permissions on a subdirectory because of a filesys mask in effect):

If you can't take the heat, Walter, stay out of the kitchen.  I've asked
you, both publicly and privately, certain questions.  You have not
deemed them worthy of response, but instead engage in ad hominem attacks
at will.

If you'd like to supply some serious answers to my queries, please do
so.  If, however, you just want a target for your pathetic little
blatherings (sorry, I'm tired of "blubbering"), find someone else.

A dialogue, no matter the topic, needs two participants.  When simple
questions or statements did not work, I tried to reach the only way it
appeared possible -- yet no matter the tack I used, you've resembled
a child holding their hands over their ears and screaming "blah,
blah, blah" at the tops of their lungs so they do not have to hear
anyone else.   I originally thought you were interested in a discussion
of the issues surrounding Amendment 2, as perceived by many.  Instead,
you've shown that you simply want an audience for your temper tantrums.

You've just lost part of that audience, Walter.

Asking serious questions, and repeatedly being told I'm "blubbering",
does not engender me to expect academic responses to those academic
questions.  

To soc.motss:
=============

I apologize for wasting my fellow motss'ers time, bandwidth, and 
disc space in trying to speak rationally with Walter.  My own words
have been overheated, so I'll (try to) not post any further in 
response to him.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Diet differences with your partner?
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 12:53:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.060904.13341@bsu-ucs> d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
>"How can a gay man or lesbian vegetarian have sex if you don't eat meat?"
>"Spit!" Chris and I deadpanned back at almost the same time.

hehe... I've thought about asking my most accessible gay vegie friends
this, but the moment has yet to come up.  If they had a problem with
eating living or dead cells, then they probably would not be drinking
milk (assuming that milk does have animal cells in it) and other cow
juice byproducts.  However, since they don't eat fertile or
non-fertile eggs, then they must have something going about life and
the potential of life.  But, since neither posses the ability to bear
a child, then their sperm does not really represent a real possibility
of life... especially when it was ejaculated for purposes other than
to make a baby.  Hmmm... good question for a rainy afternoon :).

-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free"   |CO made a #2 no-no... PU!          |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:37:17 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>[I realize now that I misread Ron's original article,
>in that I took him to be saying that he was posting 
>to soc.motss something that had already been sent out
>to the la-motss group.  I'll get the hang of these
>high tech words like "bounce" one of these days.]

Well, I TRIED to post it to the la-motss group but it "bounced". That is the
address la-motss@pompei.usc.edu returned my mail without propagating it to
the members of the list.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
0.5% of all homosexual marriages in Denmark end in divorce. [O.C. _Blade_]
From: waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: 30 Dec 1992 10:23:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <23033@drutx.ATT.COM> kpm@druhi.ATT.com
 (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106)) writes:

>It is unfortunate that a boycott of Colorado is going to hurt the areas
>that voted no.  Denver's convention business is going to be hurt, and
>the City and County of Denver voted no 40-60%.  (The Denver metro area
>barely defeated the amendment though, 49.8-50.2%.)

I assume to repeal the amendment, we'll have to come up with 4%
of the vote somewhere.  You take 'em where you can get 'em, and 
the Denver metro area is about half of the state's population. 
A big chunk of the state.  A lot of the repeal votes are gonna 
have to come from there.  The boycott will remind all Coloradoans that 
they need to come up with those voes somewhere, somehow, or else.

If any good comes of all this, it will be when we see Colorado 
sufficiently shamed that it passes a repeal.  

>But, there are only two ways for out-of-staters to show their
>outrage at Colorado for passing Amendment 2 -- a boycott (which has
>been keeping Amendment #2 in the news since the election) and by
>sending money to organizations fighting Amendment 2.

I like the boycott for just that reason.  Keeping it in the news is 
important even if it doesn't cost Colorado a dime.  But it will
Much though I'd love to ski in Colorado this year, I won't.  
Nor will I change planes in Denver.  That 's about $506 
right there that Colorado will miss.  Tough luck, guys, you 
had your chance.  If a boycott is to have any effect, we 
gotta follow through and make it hurt.   

Hope to see y'all in Colorado for a victory party in '94.  Is there 
already a repeal movement under way?  

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cramer is our problem too.
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:49:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.034907.11780
Organization: insert anything here

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>>I have got yet more mail asking me to stop posting on Cramer threads.
>>The logic seems to be that he is not a motss issue.
>>Well, if homophobia and ignorance are not motss issues what are?

>Well, yes, he's a "motss issue", but he's not a "soc.motss
>issue". 

	Bingo.

	What I love about the "I can post here if *I* want to"
people is that they NEVER EVER seem to have the guts to post their
stuff to, say, misc,jobs.resumes, or misc.jobs.offered...

	For some reason THOSE groups are beyond contamination,
while our group gets to be decided on by every, Clayton, Phil
or Walter that comes along.

	Feh --- this is why I'm more and more in favor of passive
moderation.  We created the group, we set the tone... if someone
finds it lacking let them suggest a new group to news.groups./
We've survived for 9+ years, certainly the "good" bandwidth
suggests that we'll continue for some time...

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: freier@mail.physics.utah.edu (rodney james freier)
Subject: Re: Jewish War Veterans on gays in military
Organization: University of Utah - Physics Department
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 10:40:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.181004.23855@wixer.cactus.org>, lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
|> 
|> The cost of caring for each HIV-positive military person, verified by DoD
|> records, was $200,000.  It was further stated that in the last ten years
|> DoD has expended $3 billion dollars on AIDS infected military personnel.
|> 
|> In light of the diminution of the DoD budget, it is imperative that the
|> DoD enforce regulations which forbid homosexual acts amongst U.S. military
|> personnel.              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> Jewish War Veterans of the USA urges our membership to communicate this
|> urgent message to the appropriate governmental authorities.

   Actually, you'd think the conclusion would be to forbid sexual acts, or
at least risky sexual acts. I guess that conclusion requires higher 
reasoning.... and possibly the understanding that AIDS doesn't care 
too much about the sex of the people it infects.

   
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:11:29 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Dec28.182753.5383@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Have you tried using an Epilady?  (Ow, ow, ow, ow...)

And while we're on the topic of the Epilady, has anyone seen the TV
advertisements for the "Epilady II"?  It's the "new and improved" model,
whatever that can mean for pain/torture devices ;-).

The thing that got me, though, was its slogan:

    "No pain, no gain."

Ah, truth in advertising...

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:27:53 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1hnconINN62i@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
>My lover and I like it when I keep my head shaved smooth, but the
>mechanics are kinda tough.  Knowing that various motssketeers out
>there do the same thing, could you let us in on what kind of
>razor (or electric) you use, how you keep from cutting yourself,
>how you keep from missing spots, etc?

Have you tried using an Epilady?  (Ow, ow, ow, ow...)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu (Karen Kenny aka Mel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:14:23 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <18223@autodesk.COM>, owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> 
> this kind of bitterness upsets me.
> Not because it affects me personally in any way, but because the empathic 
> part of me, the part my ascii pals don't get to know until they become
> real world pals, feels the pungent sting of these words on the pallette.

As a womyn, there are lots of instances that upset me too, D. Owen, that
_do_ affect me personally.  I'm sure that Andrea has had her share of
instances too.  What you may call "bitterness" might be another's reality.
Why is it that the the actions that lead Andrea to writing what she does
are not examined, but merely the reactions that such words evoke in a
subset of its readers?  
 
> It seems to me that some clear thought about goals and how best to achieve
> them is a lot better use of time than hanging onto the roll of hate-object
> and squeezing bitter tears from the memory of past injustice.

Like wimmin haven't been putting "clear thought" into THEIR goals
and how best to achieve them!!  You sound like _another_ man
trying to tell wimmin what is _best_ for them, D. Owen. <YAWN>

Karen
+======================================================+
                                         Karen S. Kenny
"Of course, you silly things!"      kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
                                  Medical College of VA                      
                                           Richmond, VA
+======================================================+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: zwicky@csli.stanford.edu (Arnold Zwicky)
Subject: correction to end-of-year reading
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: (apparently, very little)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:28:24 GMT

martha *grimes*, not martha *stewart* (as mara points out).

i just can't cope with these colorless names.  smith, stewart,
wolf, jones, anderson, grimes, miller, fox...all the same to me.

arnold (who taught a - small - class this spring with a smith,
  a jones, a fox, and a wolf in it, and was thankful that their
  *first* names were ryan, heidi, lisa, and terra)


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re:
     Attention...)
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:07:51 GMT

In article <1hv70lINN69f@hp-col.col.hp.com> Walter Smith,
smithw@col.hp.com writes:
>I don't think that would work, unless your job evaluations showed you 
>really *were* a bad employee.  And WHY would a company fire a good 
>employee *just* because he is gay?  
>

I'm not sure, but I think the management of "Cracker Barrel"
could answer your question.

Charlie
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!!!!
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:39:16 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Dec31.005930.29815@lclark.edu>,
snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
> Also want them to put a spell finder on this thing!!!!

Maybe what you need is a charm checker?

> But I will promise to pick a dictionary up more than once a month.
> I will lose it as a learning tool!!!

Honey, when you've lost it as a learning tool,
you ain't never gonna get it.

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*debruised* (her.) adj. surmounted or partly covered by
one of the ordinaries" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Costner plans Colorado Filming
Date: 1 Jan 1993 17:35:11 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1525@dosbears> dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com writes:
>>Albuquerque is starting to see some convention business that Colorado
>>lost.  Also, anyone looking for a place to go skiing should consider
>>New Mexico.
>
>Let me second that.  Taos, Red River, Santa Fe are all fantasic ski
>areas.  Sandia and Sierra Blanca are very good as well.  And for all
>you California skiers, the slopes are practically deserted (compared
>to what you are used to :-) and the low humidity and high elevation
>combine to create a delightful snow.

Being the compleat New Jerseyist :-), let me add that New Jersey's ski
business has picked up considerably here in the last 8 years.  No, the
mountains aren't as huge, there is more man-made snow than elsewhere,
but the facilities are often newer and therefore more modern.

New Jersey has just about everything that is listed in the "Demands"
for the MOW93 (more-so than any other state).  New Jersey law prohibits
discrimination based on sexual-orientation in employment, housing,
loans, and public accomodations.  Lesbigays can adopt without
harassment.  Strong pro-choice leadership in government (including
current Democrat Governor and the previous Republican Governor).  NJ
has a graduated age of consent; "Clinic Care" for those without health
care; a "Hate Crimes" (i.e. anti gay-bashing) law; and all state
troopers have gone through sensitivity training on Lesbigay, Latio, and
African-American issues (i.e. to avoid the "Rodney King Syndrome").
New Jersey's schools have sex education from K-12 which includes
AIDS/HIV education.  New Jersey's domestic violence laws and rape laws
include equal treatment for same-sex couples.

Let me also add that other states that have passed similar
anti-discrimination laws have excellent convention and vacation
possibilities.  In particular Connecticut and (for you skiing fans)
Vermont.  Oregon could also certainly use the support after so many
there went out on a limb to defeat Measure 9.

Not that I have anything against New Mexico (my sister lives there) I
just hope people remember that plenty of other states deserve your
business too!

Tom "plugging New Jersey... AGAIN" Limoncelli
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:33:42 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

jns@roissy.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>Besides, when you're gay, you just *presume*
>that everyone else is.  It makes things much
>easier.

	There's a great line from "The Ritz" that comes to mind.

	Abe: You guys, you think that most everyone is gay.
	Charlie: It's lucky for you that most of us are...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:40:10 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) wrote: 
->Wow .... How did you folks post way back then?  Flipping front panel
->switches? :-)

no; we had undergraduates do all the switch-flipping for us ... something
called "hazing," i think ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Jim Hubbs)
Subject: Re: March on Washington
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:53:14 GMT

<HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>Can anyone tell me offhand the date of the big 1993 march on Washington?
>I know I *live* in Washington, but that doesn't cause me to know this.

The March itself is Sunday April 25th.  There are various events
planned around the March for the week before.  If you want more
specific info about other events I have a previous post online.

Jim Hubbs
Johns Hopkins APL
Laurel, MD
Newsgroups: soc.motss