HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mtw8527@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Wallach)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Shake roof maintenance (and replacement)
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:00:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

> These I've seen.  I've also seen the Owens-Corning dimensional.  I haven't
> seen but know of Georgia-Pacific Summit and CertainTeed's Independence Shangle.
> Another option is a treated fiber shingle by Masonite called Woodruff II;
> in the picture I saw they seemed to like like cedar shakes.

Are these installed just like cedar shakes (i.e. to 1x4 boards) or are they
installed like asphalt shingles (need to have plywood sheet base)
How about cost, any idea?  Thanks.
		
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: refrigerator in a garage?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:08:43 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

dug@dug.b17d.ingr.com (Doug Taylor) writes:

> In article <XJTeuB2w161w@cdthq.UUCP>, gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
> |> lcw@cci632.cci.com (Lori Wershing) writes:
> |> 
> |> >   [ about refrigerators in unheated spaces ]
> |> 
> |> The problem with a refrigerator (or freezer) in an unheated space 
> |> is that it may not run at all in cool or cold weather, allowing
> |>  [ .... ]
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that my _freezer_ in the garage only runs when the
> room(garage)-temperature is above a certain temperature instead of when the
> temperature inside the freezer falls below a certain temperature?  Or is this
> only true of refrigerators and not freezers?  Should this be a problem for me
> living in northern Alabama?

The most likely problem with a freezer would be compressor failure
due to not running at all for an extended period. When it did try to
kick on, the oil would be both stiff and gummy, neither of which 
would be good for it. Things inside should remain frozen. Here in
north Alabama, a freezer shouldn't have much trouble, since our
winters are fairly mild (compared to Michigan, for example).

(It's not obvious from my site name, but I'm in Huntsville, too.)

Gary Heston, at home...
gary@cdthq.uucp
 
>   Doug Taylor                 (205) 730-6875 (w)
>   Huntsville, AL 35894-0001   < My thots, not theirs. >

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jdouglas@MITRE.org (Jason Douglas)
Subject: Re: Water in Crawlspace
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:33:59 GMT

In article <1edrq5INN2fs@bach.crhc.uiuc.edu> long@crhc.uiuc.edu (Junsheng 
Long) writes:
> Recently, I went to the construction site of our new house
> and found that there is a small pool of water in one corner
> of the crawl space (about 50 sqft and 0.5 ft deep).  The house
> is almost finished (the closing date is on Nov 30).  Since 
> the last rain was a week ago, this may be a problem of poor 
> drainage.  This is the first time we ever brought a house. 
> Should I be worry about this problem?  Will this water in
> crawl space weaken the foundation? What measure should the 
> builder take to correct this problem?  
> 
> I would like to hear your opinion and experience. 

I'd be concerned, but not about weakening of the foundation (unless the 
soil in your area is the (unusual) type of clay that expands as it absorbs 
moisture).   Moisture and water are enemies of your house.  That probably 
sounds ridiculous, but good maintenance requires vigilance against rot.  
Rot occurs whenever untreated wood is exposed to excessive moisture (on my 
older house the problem areas are the (exterior) window sills and the 
underside of the roof sheathing (cured by improving attic ventilation)).

Crawl spaces should be vented during warm weather to control moisture.  Good building practice (probably most codes too) requires covering the dirt floor of a crawl space with a vapor barrier.  In several messages posted here and in my own experience, adding thick plastic sheating to dirt floored crawl spaces has significantly lowered humidty in basements and made rot in the floor 
joists and sub floor above the crawl space a much more remote possibility.

Find out how the water got there and if the problem has been corrected.  
In particular, examine the grading around the house and the discharge of 
rain water from the gutters.
From: pcohen@mcl.saic.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: New House Appliances
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:02:42 GMT

Greetings !

First of all I would like to thank all those who responded to my new house walk
through question.  My walk through went very well.  Now I have another
question.  I need to buy a new vacuum cleaner.  I would like to purchase an
upright model.  Is the Eureka Powerline Plus a good one ?  In addition, I need
to purchase a washer and dryer.  I like the Maytags but they are WAY expensive
!  Can you make any recommendations ?  Im sure there are horror stories to be
told with every brand but I could use some guidance.  Thanks !

I can be reached at pcohen@mcl.saic.com as well.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
|    SAIC                               PETER M. COHEN      |
|    (703)749-5989                 pcohen@cseic.saic.com    |
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tom@oracorp.com (Tom)
Subject: Re: Basketball Goal
Organization: ORA Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:49:50 GMT

stevee@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Stephen Elmendorf) writes:
: I also would like to put up a goal (on a post). My concern is that we don't
: plan on living here more than 4-5 years at most. How much of a negative is it
: to have a goal in front of the house when it comes time to sell? It seems that
: removing it might be difficult, since it is sunk into a block of concrete. 
: Unless the prospective buyers had kids, or liked to play, I would think it 
: might turn them away. Any comments?


My house is on a grade and the driveway is too steep to setup a hoop.  The
upside is that we have a great yard for tobogganning.

I didn't realize how much I missed a basketball hoop until I go visiting
to my in-laws house.  All their kids are grown now, but the hoop still gets
a lot of use from us "kids".  We're in our mid-to-late 30's, and it
feels like I'm going to have a coronary every time we play, but hey, I'll
be able to walk again in a few days when the legs stop quivering. :-)

My father-in-law bought one of those adjustable backboards, supposedly
for the grand children.  We've been known to drop the rim down to a 
"jammable" height (at least for us old guys whose legs don't have the
spring they used to).  Occassionally we like to see what it's like to
play above the rim.  It's pretty cool but it's too bad I can't get there
anymore and have to bring the rim down to my level.

Anyway, my mother-in-law, she doesn't play much anymore, but maybe she'll
take it up again when she retires in December.  My daughter is almost two
and she likes to have the rim dropped to 7 feet so she can sit on my
shoulders and jam.  And my neice and nephew play whenever they go to
Grandma's house.  Of course the neighbor kids come over and play a lot
too.  I don't know, maybe that's a bad thing, with liability issues to
consider.

I wouldn't base the decision to buy a house on whether it has a basketball
hoop or not.  Put one up and enjoy it.  Just keep it as far away from the
house as possible, and don't install it on anything that is connected to
the house.  When I was a kid, he had a backboard attached to the back porch
and the whole house would vibrate whenever a shot hit the rim, especially
those long shots from downtown that kids always take playing pig or horse
or whatever.

My next house is going to have a nice flat driveway for the basketball
court, with a flat area in the yard big enough for a tennis court which
can be flooded in the winter for an ice rink, and a nice steep hill on
one side for tobogganning/skiing.  The house?  Who cares?  Buy location,
buy location, buy location.  ;-)

Uh, I'm in favor of basketball hoops, and I wouldn't care what any future
buyer thinks.  If they don't like it, they can take it down if they like
the house.

-- Tom
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: weidman@nap.amoco.com (Daniel L. Weidman)
Subject: Re: How to get rid of fireplace smoke smell? (R
Reply-To: weidman@nap.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:25:53 GMT

Even cleaning out the fireplace may not help -- here's why:

Anytime your furnace or hot water heater or other induced drafted appliance
kicks on it will lower the pressure in you house slightly.  If the flue is open 
or leaky it may be the route of lowest flow resistance to equalize the pressure.
If air is drawn down your idle flue after a fire it will smell like creosote
or whatever.  If you crack a window in the basement near your furnace the air
will leak thru from there and the smell should disappear.
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:42:12 GMT
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <1dtvgaINNfh@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
=In article 14010@dg-rtp.dg.com, eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot) writes:
=> It makes me think
=>that if I ever list a house for sale through an RE agent again (not that I
=>think it's a good idea in general), I will put a clause in my contract stating
=>that if the buyer is represented by a buyer's agent at any point in the
=>negotiations, the commision I pay will go down by 50%.
=
=What difference does it make to you as a seller WHAT representation the
=buyer has?  You pay your agent to list and sell your house.  If your
=agent wants to split that fee with some other agent who provides a
=buyer, regardless of their relationship, I don't see that it is
=particularly any of your business.

In the traditional setting, both the selling agent and the listing agent
work for the seller. Thus, they do not disclose to the buyer any info --
such as bottom line selling price -- that would place the seller at a
disadvantage. However, if the buyer -- acting in ignorance of the
selling agent's relationship -- confides his top offer to the selling
agent, that agent is *required* to inform the seller.

If a buyer and agent enter into a "buyer's agency" contract, the agent
in possession of "top offer" is not permitted to inform the seller or
the listing agent.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Cleaning a heat-pump heat-exchanger
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:17:38 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

tmcbraye@thor.ece.uc.edu (Tim McBrayer) writes:

> 
> I've recently bought a house with a heat pump (with electric 'emergency heat'
> for heating/cooling.  The full-house inspection I had done before buying said
> that the heat exchanger was dirty, and needed to be cleaned.  Well, it is, 
> and it does!  For whatever reason, enough dust has been sucked into it that
> the lower surface is covered with gunk.  In some areas, this gunk resembles
> paper, and I could simply peel it off the surface of the heat exchanger.  
> In other areas, though, it has filled the area between the fins of the 
> exchanger.
> 
> My question is: what is the best way to remove this stuff?  I used a small
> knife to clean between some of the fins (1-2 mm spacing).  This is tedious, 
> and I have to be careful not to bend the fins too much.  Is there any way to
> soak the stuff off/steam clean it/???   Any advice will be greatly
> appreciated.

First, put away that knife....

Now, either use water or compressed air. A good nozzle on a hose
can probably get most of it off, with some assist from a nylon 
scrub brush. If you use compressed air, wear a dust mask. Do *not*
use anything sharp pointed (like a knife) while working on a heat
exchanger; you may end up getting a real service call to fix some
holes...

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: need advice on cooking range purchase
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:42:18 GMT

In article <40527@unix.SRI.COM> cole@unix.SRI.COM (Susan Cole) writes:
>
>3) Does a black range tend to "show the dirt" more than a white one?

No. I have a black one, and it seems to show dirt less than a white one.

>Now the background.  I want to replace my old gas range.  I kind of had my
>heart set on getting one that has a griddle as well as burners.  I had
>pictured one with four burners and a permanent griddle in the middle, but the
>only ones I've seen have been very expensive  -- mid $2000's and up.
>Cost is not a huge consideration but on the other hand I don't want to
>go overboard.

One piece of advice. When I was shopping for mine, I checked all the
discount places. I wanted a slide-in or drop in range and oven unit,
and they were scarce and expensive. Finally I started checking little
neighborhood appliance dealers. The second one I tried was able to order
exactly what I wanted from GE for a little more than $400. The least
expensive "discount" store unit was a Caloric (not my idea of quality)
and was priced at over $600.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Keep away from people who try to belittle your
George Patterson -  | ambitions. Small people always do that, but the
                    | really great make you feel that you, too, can
                    | become great.          Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: btarbox@world.std.com (Brian J Tarbox)
Subject: torpedo heaters: safe for the basement?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:09:40 GMT

I have an unheated basement which I need to work in.  I've
considered a 'torpedo' heater (kerosene/propane burner).
Are these things safe to run indoors?  The basement is not
well sealed so there should be lots of (cold) air coming
in to replace what is being burned (I think?)

Please email responses, thanks.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: Re: GFCI question (is the horse beaten enough yet?)
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:02:10 GMT


In article <1992Nov16.163123.3040@osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov13.094409.237@hsh.com>, lee@hsh.com (Lee Havemann) writes:
|> |> In article <10885@wrgate.wr.tek.com>, davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes:

|> |> A lot of older houses were wired with "armored BX", with the armor being the
|> |> ground. Unless there has been any rewiring done (somebody putting in romex and
|> |> not bonding the box with the ground wire), you should have a good earth
|> |> ground). If the outlets you want to replace are in a metal box, and you don't
|> |> replace the box, you might be able to bond the GFCI ground to the metal box. 
|> |>    

(Actually I deleted Dougs response, and other stuff)

Counting on BX for a good ground is not a good idea in any case, and
for several reasons, including:
1). Early BX was galvinized, (most still is) no rust but other oxide buildup
2.) Clamp screws and/or retaining nuts loosened
3.) Non-metal box added later anywhere in the loop
4.) May never have been grounded (earthed) in the first place,
	...very common when extended from Knob-and-Tube
5.) Romex Clamps (either single or those integral to boxes) do
	...NOT make adequate connection on BX (Particularly
	...old BX) Only BX screw retainers do (but see 1-4 above)

(BTW if you need flexible armored tubing, it is called "Greenfield")

My guess is that it is ok to run a romex from the panel to your
box with only the bare (ground(earth)) wire connected at the ends, and
not have to worry about the volume of the box since the other two
wires are not "current carrying".  (I know this may not be practical
and that's the reason this thread was (re)started).
-- 

	...Wex
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Re: How to tell a REAL buyer's agent
Date: 23 Nov 1992 14:11:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 27052@mccc.edu, pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
>In article <1edo6tINN8l1@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>=You could, you would be stretching it.  In 10 out of 10 cases, the
>=seller's "real" price is inflated to cover the agents' fees.
>
>Interesting way to look at it. The offering price of a house for sale is
>somewhat related to an informal appraisal -- called an MVA (market value
>analysis) -- done by the listing agent. It's based on what comparable
>houses have sold for.

Which have almost certainly had *their* prices inflated to pay RE fees.

>=Actually, that is the main impetus behind the buyer's agent movement.
>=Buyers are only beginning to realize that the agent driving them around
>=every weekend and being oh so helpful in finding that perfect home is
>=legally obligated to fleece them.
>
>Au contraire, sir!! Legally, an agent must treat all clients and
>customers fairly and aboveboard. However, the listing agent and selling
>agent are prohibited from telling the buyer financial things that the
>seller told them. They are both required to help the buyer [seller?] get the
>highest selling price, to be sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean
>fleecing the buyer. 

So they not allowed to tell the buyer info they have on the seller, and
they are *required* to tell the seller info they have on the buyer, and
they are *required* to get the highest selling price possible, all
while (for the vast majority of them) purporting to be working for the
buyer!  The mind boggles at what you *would* consider fleecing!

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington)
Subject: Re: need advice on cooking range purchase
Reply-To: kam@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UTD-CV Corvallis, OR
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:36:57 GMT


In article <1eb0ttINN8bb@sixgun.East.Sun.COM>, egreen@east.sun.com (Ed
Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:
|>In article 29846@searchtech.com, monica@searchtech.com (Monica
Skidmore) writes:
|>>In article <40527@unix.SRI.COM> cole@unix.SRI.COM (Susan Cole) writes:
|>>>
|>>>The downdraft style actual seems desirable from the standpoint of
leaving me
|> >>the wall space above the stove to use, but I wonder if it presents
problems
|> >
|> >How does a downdraft compare to a normal range hood?  
|> 
|> Smoke rises.  Don't fight Mother Nature.
|> 
|> I have a Jenn Air downdraft range.  It works OK, but does not pull all
|> the smoke into the vent.  It is noisy.  It seems obvious to me that a
|> much more powerful (and noiser) fan is necessary to pull smoke down
|> than to push it sideways.  If/when I redo it, I'll put a hood over the
|> range and vent the smoke out through the wall (or ceiling, if the range
|> winds up on an island or in a penninsula).
|> 
|> ---
|> Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,

I commented to Susan in a private e-mail message that I have the
Modern Maid range that she is looking at.  And if there is one thing
that I could change about it, it would be the vent.  It is noisy and
literally pulls the flame toward it (gas range, remember.)  Frankly,
the vent is so annoying that I never use it.

So I agree with Ed.  Overhead vents are the way for me!

Keith Marchington
From: weinberg@sho.Sun.COM (Glenn Weinberg)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Getting rid of radio on my phone lines?
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:26:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Computer Corp.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: weinberg@sho.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sho

In article <1992Nov23.150227.14070@miki.pictel.com>, dustin@miki.pictel.com (Dustin Clampitt) writes:
|> 
|> I get clear and distinct reception of some local radio
|> station on my phone lines.  I've disconnected all internal
|> phone wiring and tested at the junction box, and it's still
|> there.  The phone company said, "find somebody who sells
|> phone stuff and ask for a supressor."  The phone company
|> says it's not their problem.  How supportive.

Ever since deregulation, the local phone company's initial response is always
that "it's not their problem."  But if it occurs before the network connection
("junction box"), then it is their problem.  You just need to convince them
of that.  Remember, it costs them money to send someone out.  Before
deregulation, the cost was buried in your monthly rental charges and subsidized
by long distance rates.  Now it's not, so they try harder to avoid the cost
of a service call.

|> What can I do?  What can I buy?  Who ya gonna call?  

You could get an RF suppressor, but your best bet is to get the phone
company to fix the problem at the source.  To do this,  you need to convince
the phone company that you know what you're talking about.  Call them again
and explain that you've tested this at the network connection and the problem
still occurs.  If they're still not responsive, ask to speak with a supervisor.

I used to live in the Boston area, and when I did I had this exact problem.
I eventually got New England Telephone to send out a repairman.  He fixed
the problem by eliminating a loose connection a couple of blocks away.

	Regards,

	Glenn
-- 
Glenn Weinberg    Sun Microsystems Computer Corp.    glenn.weinberg@Eng.Sun.COM
Opinions expressed above should not be construed as representing any position,
official or unofficial, of SMCC or Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: philo@orion.IntelliCorp.COM (Philip R. Obermarck)
Subject: Need info: HOUSE FOR SALE BY OWNER
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:05:02 GMT
Reply-To: pobermarck@intellicorp.com
Organization: IntelliCorp Inc.
Keywords: help

My wife and I are trying to sell our house, and have been very 
dis-satisfied with the results our realtor has produced (none).

I would like to find out how easy/difficult it is to sell "by owner".
Can we get into the multiple listings?  Are there other places to advertise?
How do we handle the legal stuff?  What are the ins and outs of owner-
financing?  And what would it all cost?

Our house is located in the San Francisco Bay area, but is surrounded by
re-possessed and owner-financed homes.

We want to move as soon as possible, since this area is draining us dry
financially :-(

Thanks-
-- 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Philip R. Obermarck          
  PObermarck@IntelliCorp.COM   
                               
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~