HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: Re: Eastern European Wines: any advice?
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:21:21 GMT

Greetings,

  Any stuff on Ukrainian wines, anyone?

I've had "Egri Bikaver", Bull's Blood from, I think, Hungary.  Monipex imports?
'Twas a few years ago.  It's a robust wine - superb for spicy Indian dishes!


						Bohdan




=====================================================================
 
Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj
 
Consultant                     
 
Compuserve:  72576,1754


                              
All promulgations are my own.  No corporate entity has authorization
to represent me.
 
Imprimatur.						Nihil obstat.
 
=====================================================================
From: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Kehlet)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: this years harvest
Date: 16 Sep 1992 00:17:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: baudelaire

In article 11741@u.washington.edu, dcoder@u.washington.edu () writes:
>The first crush that I participated in this year was last Sunday (Sept. 6) in
>the Santa Cruz mountains. The vineyards have a moderate marine influence. The
>pinot noir was picked at 22 degrees brix; variable clusters--some raisins, some
>berries underripe, no mold, overall it seemed excellent. The chardonnay will be
>a week or two.
 
The vineyard report from the local winemaker who's helping me out reads:
        Sunday 13 September
        Sugar           21.2    (picked last year at 24) 
        Total acidity   .928    (can anyone calibrate this?)
        pH              3.13    (acidic, a goal for the finished wine is  
                                often 3.6 but I don't know what the must
                                should be to end up at 3.6 wine)
                                 
These Cabernet Sauvignon grapes are from Sonoma's Dry Creek.  The winemaker
said the grapes are even cleaner than last year with respect to mildew.
I didn't see any then!  The Zinfandel in my Sunnyvale yard was hard hit by
powdery mildew this year.

Dave

Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
From: wanda@b3.ingr.com (Wanda Worland)
Subject: Request for Purple Punch
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: rec.food.drink
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:54:08 GMT


I'm giving a bridal shower for a good friend.
The color she has choosen for her bridesmaids, 
etc. is purple.  I can't seem to find a good
recipe for a grape-based, or any purple-based
punch.  Any suggestions?

Appreciate any ideas anyone might offer!
Xref: sparky rec.food.drink:2927 rec.crafts.brewing:5531
From: jb@crosfield.co.uk (john bartram)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink,rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Wine from grapes -- recipes/techniques?
Date: 15 Sep 92 09:59:57 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <CSS.92Sep11082256@sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu> css@sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu (Chris Shenton) writes:
>A neighbor has a bunch of grapes ripening, and I'd like to take a shot
>at wine-making. I've done plenty of beer (and made a lot too :-), but
>I don't know what the procedure for wine is.
>
>Any hints? recipes? techniques?
>
>Thanks.

Well Chris you will need more than just one bunch. :')

Pull the grapes off the stalks and discard the stalks.
Split the grapes (makes them much easier to press.
Put grapes in a press or a muslem/nylon bag and squeeze the juice
out.
Pitch in a good active yeast starter and ferment out in a sealed container
with air lock.

You can spin the fruit out by fermenting on the pulp with added water and
then going the weight training, I mean , squeezing route.
Add suger to the resulting must to get the starting gravity you want.
This results in a lower quality wine but you get more of it.

A good book is "Wines from your Vines" by Nick Poulter.
Amateur Winemaker Press. UK.

Regards
John.
-- 
+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+----------+---------+-------+
jb@crosfield.co.uk		We shall swally on the beaches, We shall
tel: +44 0442-230000-x3267	swally in the streets and kebab houses,
				we shall never be sober.   Rab C.  Nesbitt.
From: John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org (John DeCarlo)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Peanut Liqueurs
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:10:03 -0500

Anyone know of any?

Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
From: jcarroll@ferris.cray.com (Jeff Carroll)
Subject: Re: More on mail order coffee
Originator: jcarroll@ferris
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:10:13 CDT


> The third problem is the one
>you've gotten backwards: the tendency to use very dark, over-roasted
>beans for espresso. The converse, espresso that's no good because the
>roast is too light, just isn't a significant issue. Maybe there are
>cafes here and there that have been over-compensating for the
>over-roasting problem by using under-roasted beans. But this at most a
>minor, localized matter.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not complaining about "under-roasted"
beans; I'm just saying, at base, that dark roasts taste different than
light roasts, and that's because a lot of the things you taste in light
roasts have been roasted out or oxidized in a dark roast. I like both
light and dark roasts, as long as they're well done.

I *am* complaining about people who use "Italian Roast" for "espresso",
roast it *too* dark, and overextract it.

And I don't dispute your characterization of Italian espresso. I don't recall
having had Lavazza when I was over there, and I've been fortunate enough
not to have to seek it out here; my experience was that the stuff I did have
(mostly around Florence) was darker than what I drink these days (Caffe Mauro),
though in retrospect not nearly as dark as some of the swill I had in Mpls
a few weeks ago. (There are some very good coffeehouses there, most of which
have opened within the last year, but also some very bad ones which have been
around for a while.)

Not all the stuff in Seattle is roasted as dark as Starbucks (which is
intermediate between the two flavors I'm talking about).
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: More on mail order coffee
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:41:18 GMT
Reply-To: warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <RSHAPIRO.92Sep10104444@kariba.bbn.com>, rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro) writes:
|> There's great variety in Italian espresso roasts,
|> but the most popular varieties (eg Lavazza) are, if anything,
|> *lighter* than espresso roasts in the US - closer to what in the US is
|> called "Vienna" roast than they are to "Italian" roast.

Which Lavazza?  I know of three varieties: "Rosso", "D'Oro", and "Luigi" (special
export brand).  The "Luigi" is quite a bit lighter than the "D'Oro".
From: bondono@VNET.IBM.COM
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Infos about wine tasting clubs
Date: 10 Sep 92 08:34:57 GMT
X-Unparsable-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 10:28:15 FST

Hello,
There isn't too much traffic related to wine on r.f.d, too sad :>(

By the way, I'd like to create a tasting club, and wondered about the
best way to do it:
    frequency of meetings
    how to buy bottles (each member come with a bottle, or one of them
buys them all, the price being divided)
    how much wines to drink in a session
and all other things yo can think about.

Please share your own experiments with the rest of the net!

(and when it will start, I swear I will report every tasting session here!)

Philippe

Philippe Bondono                          bondono@vnet.ibm.com
Dept 1032                                 Tel. (+33) 1 60 88 69 41
Lab. IBM de Corbeil-Essonnes              Fax. (+33) 1 60 88 49 20
BP 58, 91105 Corbeil-Essonnes Cedex
France
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a "peanut flavored" liquor?
Date: 11 Sep 1992 17:03:54 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zabriskie.berkeley.edu

This may not be of use to you, but Frangelico is a 
hazelnut-flavored liqueur which, to me, tastes pretty
much like peanuts.  I don't much care for the stuff, myself.

Steve
From: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Kehlet)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: Cheap barrel source? (was Re: Rookie Wine Maker Needs Help)
Date: 5 Sep 1992 01:20:22 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: baudelaire

Speaking of Demptos Napa Cooperage, I went up there Wednesday AM to pick up
my new 56 liter barrel.  It is a very interesting operation, full of pungent 
toasty oak smells.

Demptos has basically three kinds of barrels: ones built in France and shipped
here whole, ones made here from French oak and ones made here from American oak.
The master cooper told me that the American oak barrels are just as good as the
French oak.  From his perspective, I'm sure it's true.  The craftsmanship put
into each type he builds does not vary.  A winemaker certainly will see a 
difference in the flavors.  By the way, they don't build small barrels like
the one I bought; those come built from France.

There was a crew of about 10 at work building barrels.  This time of year they
are very busy.  The most interesting step was the toasting, where the partially
constructed barrel is heated over a small fire and the staves bent.  I always
wondered how they got the hoops on the other end of the barrel.  The cooper
wrapped a steel cable around the free end staves.  One end of the cable is fixed,
and the other attached to a winch.  The winch is turned on and the cable
constricts the staves together.  The cooper slaps a hoop around that end,
releases the cable and the barrel moves on to the next person.

I hear some people in Napa are already crushing Cabernet; it looks like it may 
be a bit early this year.

Dave


Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
From: michaels@ee.ubc.ca (michael smayra)
Subject: EASY WINE MAKING
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:14:41 GMT


Greetings,
	
	I'm interested in making my own wine. I can buy grape juice
	from a local distributor. He sells the juice in 25litres
	buckets.

	I would highly appreciate if someone can share with me the
	method of making wine from fresh juice (White and Red).

	Please reply to   mas@mda.ca   or   michaels@ee.ubc.ca

	I will post in a concise format the method(s) that was
	suggested.

Thank You in Advance,

mas@mda.ca   michaels@ee.ubc.ca
From: silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill Silvert)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: Eastern European Wines: any advice?
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:25:54 GMT
Reply-To: silvert@biome.bio.ns.ca (Bill Silvert)
Distribution: na
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In <1992Sep10.162346.29317@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:

>There probably is no reason why we ultimately can't have excellent wines
>from Eastern Europe, but I suspect it will take some years for their quality
>to be really competitive.

I haven't had them for many years, but Georgian wines and Armenian
brandy were excellent.
-- 
William Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division, Bedford Inst. of Oceanography
P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2.  Tel. (902)426-1577
InterNet Address: silvert@biome.bio.ns.ca
From: bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: WINE MAKING
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:04:14 GMT

Given the caveat that I'm not an expert, but nonetheless involved in making
my own....

1) If the grape juice is really fresh, then the first 24 hours it should
be shocked with about 50 ppm SO2 to stun the wild yeasts.  This is a
conservative figure, as some wineries go as high as 150 ppm.

2) While the SO2 is stunning the wild yeasts, a starter culture needs to be
made with a smaller quantity (about a quart) of either the grape juice,
or apple juice with the desired yeast.  Pitch after 24 hours.

3) If this is red wine, then the juice and skins should be all together.
At least twice a day, the cap (made of grape skins, seeds) needs to be
punched down to remix with the juice so that it doesn't get dry and
moldy.  All of this should be covered to keep out bugs and dirt, but
not airtight, since fermentation will be generating a lot oc CO2.

4) Once the cap (of skins/seeds) has fallen back into the must (about
2 weeks) then fermentation is about complete, since there is not enough
CO2 being generated to raise the cap.

5) From beginning to end, specific gravity readings need to be taken
and logged.  It's also a good idea to buy an acid testing kit from
a local wine/beer making shop and test for total acid.

6) When fermentation is finished, then the wine needs to be pressed off
the skins/seeds, and put in a barrel or carboy away from air.  It's
especially important now that it contains alcohol to keep it away from
air, since acetobacter is an aerobic bacteria and can now ruin your
wine (unless you WANT vinegar).  In addition, the wine can oxydize badly
even without being turned to vinegar.  At least you can make use of
vinegar.  You can't do much with oxydized wine except throw it out.

7) You may with a new barrel, and especially with a carboy, add a
culture of malolactic bacteria to ferment the malic (harsh tasting) acid
into the milder lactic acid to make the wine more palatable.

8) Oak is nice.  If you use an oaken barrel, make sure it stays tightly
bunged, and keep the level topped up.  Once a month is the minimum, I
prefer to top up on a weekly or 2 week basis.  Use a wine that is close
to what your finished product will be.  As a last resort, you can use
a sterile water/vodka mixture with a similar alcohol percentage to the
finished product.  Anything in the range of 10-14% will work here.
If you don't have a barrel, buy oak chips.

9) Once both the malolactic fermentation is done, and there is enough
oak on the wine (taste it, find out), then you'll need to bottle.

I know I've probably left out alot, but I hope this points anyone in the
right direction.

bobK
From: jcf@nmitd4.sr.hp.com (Jim Fuller)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:08:44 GMT
Subject: Zinfandel Tasting Results
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink

A group of eleven intrepid winetasters gathered over labor day weekend to 
taste a group of eight California Zinfandels.  We had two zins from four
different viticultural areas of northern California.  We had Dry Creek, 
Sonoma Valley, Howell Mountain (Napa), and Amador County.  We were tasting
current releases which were five 1990s and one each '87, '88, and '89.

Following is the group ranking and one or two sparse notes: 

 1) Black Sheep Winery, Sierra Foothills - Amador County  1989, 13% alcohol
    My ranking - 6th.  Nice berry fruit in a lighter style.

 2) A. Rafanelli, Dry Creek, Sonoma County  1990, 14.2% alcohol
    My ranking - 5th.  Consistently one of the best. A little tannic.

 3) Kenwood Vineyards, Sonoma Valley - Barricia Vineyard  1990, 13.3% alcohol
    My ranking - 7th.  I liked this wine, but thought that it had too much
    new and heavily charred oak.  The fruit might come through in time.

 4) Quivira, Dry Creek, Sonoma County  1990, 13.5% alcohol
    My ranking - 4th.  Another solid zin from Dry Creek.  This wine has
    won a lot of awards.  

 5) Deer Park Winery, Beatty Ranch, Howell Mountain/Napa Valley  1987, 13.8%
    My ranking - 2nd.  Fruity nose with nice black pepper notes.  Beginning 
    to soften up with bottle age.

 6) Summit Lake Vineyards, Howell Mountain/Napa Valley  1988, 14.1% alcohol
    My ranking - 1st.  Distinct black pepper in the nose and on the palette,
    a very typical Howell Mountain Zinfandel.  This wine had loads of fruit
    to go with the relatively high tannins.  It Should age well.

 7) Ravenswood, Old Hill Ranch, Sonoma Valley  1990, 14.9% alcohol 
    My ranking - 3rd.  Big, tannic, lots of fruit.  Typical of the 
    Ravenswood style. Needs time.  (In the Ravenswood tasting room they 
    have a sign that reads "No wimpy wines!")  

 8) Milliaire, Sierra Foothills, Vielles Vignes T.C. Vineyard. 1990 14.8%
    My ranking - 8th.  This wine had a strange canned asparagus flavor.
    It might have been caused in part by the heavily charred oak used in 
    aging.  

All in all it was an interesting group of wines.  I would recommend any of 
them, even the last place wine.  The 5th through 7th place wines were in a 
virtual tie.  The top four wines are highly recommended.  

Cheers!

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
From: jcarroll@ferris.cray.com (Jeff Carroll)
Subject: Re: Roast Coast to Coast
Originator: jcarroll@ferris
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:30:25 CDT



>All this discussion on Italian vis a vis American espressos sort of
>bolsters an idea I have had for a long time; coffee is possibly roasted
>darkest on the west coast and it progressively becomes light as you go
>east, ....well, as a trend, at least. For example, I find Peet's
>(Berkeley) espresso roasts and other varietals too dark, to the point of
>tastelessness.

Peet's and Starbucks are pretty dark, that's true. But as I pointed out
earlier, there are a lot of people roasting coffee in Seattle who don't
roast as darkly as they do (and I'm told that the guy who owns Peet's
was involved in the early days of Starbucks, so it's no surprise that the
product is similar). In other words, Peet's and Starbucks are the exception
(although a large and important one) rather than the rule, even on the West
Coast
 
>Whereas Green mountain in Vermont is *just right* for me.
>But, go north into Canada, and piff! back are the darkest, burnt out
>roasts (at least the Timothy's are)! 
>    I think the *correct* espresso roast is one which has been roasted
>to the first point at which the oils are secreted. 

Rule of thumb #1: Coffee shops in shopping malls are the wrong place to buy
coffee. Timothy's and Gloria Jean's are cases in point.

Rule of thumb #2: Any place that displays its varietals in transparent bins
(of glass, Plexiglas, or whatever) is the wrong place to buy coffee.

Rule of thumb #3: Bet against anybody who's been selling coffee in this
country for more than five years.
From: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Kehlet)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: WINE MAKING
Date: 16 Sep 1992 00:29:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: kehlet@baudelaire.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: baudelaire

bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg) writes:
>zen@hophead (Nick Zentena) writes:
>and I respond back with %%
>>>bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg) writes:
>>> 3) If this is red wine, then the juice and skins should be all together.
>>> At least twice a day, the cap (made of grape skins, seeds) needs to be
>>> punched down to remix with the juice so that it doesn't get dry and
>>> moldy. 
..
>>        I've never seen or heard of this. The foam that is
>>        created by fermentation should be screwed with
..
>%%
>%% This is the way I've learned it.  I know of at least one commercial winery
>%% (Cinnabar) that uses a punching down tool (theirs is pneumatic given the
>%% size of the operation.  As for the duration, it depends on how much color
>%% and tannins you want from the grape skins.

You have to punch it down or you won't get red wine.  It might even mold as
Bob suggests.

Carmenet has a pneumatic punchdown system also.  Carmenet make a great Bordeaux 
style red.  Their system consists of a big stainless disk suspended over the
fermentation tank that is forced down on the cap.  Most commercial wineries
use pumping over, pumping from the bottom of the tank to hose down the cap
of skins.  The belief at Carmenet is that punching down is gentler and doesn't
release bitter tannins.

Myself, it looks like I'll be wirebrushing the garden hoe again to clean it
up for punching down.

Finally, I'll plug my crush checklist again!

Dave


Crush Checklist

22 October 1991

David C. Kehlet


Mix up potassium metabisulfite solution for use at 1 teaspoon/gallon 
grape must for 30ppm.  Solution is 1 oz metabisulfite in 21 oz water.
    (From Greg Bruni: 13.6 grams/60 gallons grape juice.  This 
     is .2266 gram/gallon, .0079 oz/gallon.  To create a sol'n so
     one adds 1 tsp/gallon grape juice, .0079 oz/tsp or 1 oz/21 oz.)

Wash the four six gallon containers, lids, corks and 25 gallon tank.

Get grapes, dump into 25 gallon tank, stomp and destem if not done
already.

Record sugar and temperature.

Mix in metabisulfite solution at 1 teaspoon/gallon of grape must to get 
30 ppm.

Wait 30 minutes.

Mix up yeast in a pitcher of juice, mix into grape must.

Cover tank.

Every day do the following:
    Punch down skins.
    Record sugar and temperature.

One day after fermented dry (skins should sink), press.  Use pitchers
to collect pressed juice and a bowl to dump wine and skins into press.
Dump wine into 6 gallon containers temporarily.

Add in metabisulfite solution at 1 teaspoon/gallon of wine to get  
additional 30 ppm.

Siphon wine into 15 gallon barrel and glass; top off and seal.

Keep wine fully topped off.

Every few months rack the wine.  Add metabisulfite solution at 1/3
teaspoon/gallon of wine (10ppm additional).  Total sulfite added must
be <= 100ppm, so this will work for four rackings (30+30+10+10+10+10).
Last racking should be 1 week before bottling.
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: More on mail order coffee
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:44:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: jcarroll@ferris.cray.com's message of 10 Sep 92 03:03:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.220305.5168@walter.cray.com> jcarroll@ferris.cray.com (Jeff Carroll) writes:
   Italian espressos (after which our domestic vendors take
   the term "Italian roast") are much, much darker roasts
   than these


This just isn't so. There's great variety in Italian espresso roasts,
but the most popular varieties (eg Lavazza) are, if anything,
*lighter* than espresso roasts in the US - closer to what in the US is
called "Vienna" roast than they are to "Italian" roast.


   caffeine. There are smooth and subtle flavor components
   that are often masked in lighter espresso roasts such as
   have become popular in this country. 


I think you have this backwards. Very dark roasts tend to be bitter,
simple and somewhat sharp; medium roasts tend to be smoother, more
complex and more subtle.  I'm also unclear where you get the idea that
light espresso roasts are popular in the US. I see little evidence of
this.
From: markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Lead Crystal Decanters: Valid Health Concern?
Date: 14 Sep 1992 19:19:16 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu


	I would like to purchase a nice crystal decanter for
occasional use as a wine carafe.  No long-term (more than a few
hours) storage of liquor in it is envisioned.  I am not pregnant,
lactating, nor is it likely I will take on either of these
conditions in the foreseeable future.  Should I worry about lead
leaching into the wine, and try to find a no-lead / low-lead decanter,
or is lead pretty much a non-issue for this application?

Thanks much,
-Mark