From: wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes)
Subject: Re: Anime, and He May Not
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:08:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.021623.10947@panix.com> jis@panix.com (Jack Szwergold) writes:
>In <37730@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> rnlee@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Profess'nal Agitator) writes:
>>For starters, how 'bout "your own" Lovely Angels.  C'mon, these are a
>>pair of characters whose breast sizes are actually written in the
>>series.  Can we say the same about Madoka?  Lum?  Kyoko?  Priss?  Nausicaa?
>Agreed. Anime is INCREDIBLY SEXIST.

WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!!!  SWEEPING GENERALIZATION ALERT!!  WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!!

8-]  You should be careful about making sweeping statements like that.
Gotta remember that anime encompasses a lot of animation, from all
different genres and targetted at all different audiences, and not
all of it is the "babes in bikinis" genre.

Besides, how is anime's use of buxom women any worse than Hollywood's?
And at least in anime, a lot of the women are competant enough to take
care of themselves - they don't need the hero to come save their ass
every episode (although admittedly a lot do too 8-/).  How often can
you say that about Hollywood productions?

>And if anyone can prove otherwise,
>you have better sources of anime than I do.  I mean, just look at
>GunBusters even? Bikini clad high-school girls fighting in mecha IN
>BIKINIS?!!?!?!?  Even look at the Dirty Pair?  If you were a male "Lovely
>Angel"  do you think you would be running around in a G-string and a gun?
>(Note: The you in the last sentence isn't directed at -YOU- directly. 
>Just a hypothetical thing)

There is a distinction between "appealing to male prurient interests" and
"sexism."  Yes, there is no good reason for these women to be running
around scantilly clad other than it appeals to drooling fanboys.  This is
usually the rationale behind the inclusion of a lot of gratuitous T&A
in movies, comics, TV shows, etc. - it attracts the male audience.

However, you also need to look at how the characters are portrayed in
terms of their personalities - are they strong- or weak-willed, intelligent
or stupid, brave or prone to lots of unnecessary screaming, etc. - and
their purpose in the story - do they do anything useful on their own
or are the Requisite Love Interest Who Gets Kidnapped And Needs Saving
Every Episode?  In the case of the Dirty Pair, you'd be hard-pressed
to say they were stereotyped as weak-willed and ineffectual - they're
reasonably intelligent, courageous (occasional fits about their looks 
in the middle of a fight notwithstanding 8-), good at what they do,
and able to hold their own against just about anybody.  The fact they're
attractive and run around regularly in 12 square inches of fabric doesn't
affect their abilities in the slightest - it just makes it harder for
some people to acknowledge them.

I'm NOT defending having scantily-clad women in anime merely so there
are scantily-clad women there (much as I enjoy oogling exposed female
flesh, animated or otherwise, as the next drooling fanboy) - ideally
you wouldn't need to pander to such interests just to get your story
told the way you see fit.  I'm merely pointing out that one shouldn't
assume that just because there are scantily-clad women in anime that
the anime in question is necessarily sexist.

Think of it this way: if anime were truly as sexist as you think it is,
why do you think there are so many female anime fans?  Why are some of
them willing to dress up like the Dirty Pair?  Because they enjoy
being objectified by drooling fanboys?  Somehow, I think not...

Finally, as someone else pointed out, there are male stereotypes out
there as well.  If it's unfair to expect women to have breasts bigger
than her head (which I personally find more deformed than attractive),
it should also be unfair to expect men to have these incredibly muscular
physiques.  There's a reason why all those "Charles Atlas" ads appear
in the middle of comic books, just like there's a reason why breast
implants became so popular...

>Bubble Gum Crisis, when stripped of animation and techinical prowess is
>written and plotted no better than an A-Team or a Knight Rider episode.
>Anime could be, and at times is, better than that.  Look at Honneamise,
>Laputa, Harmageddon etc......

Well, aside from the fact that Murphy's Rule "90% of everything is crap"
applies to anime no less than anything else, it takes all kinds to make
up an entertainment medium.  Whether it's comics, TV, movies, or anime,
you'll have everything from the truly worthless drek up to the literate
art.  Admittedly, it would be nice if things tended more towards the
high end of the spectrum than the low, but that would violate the 90%
law of the universe, causing untold natural catastrophes, economic
collapse throughout the world, fanboys to have nothing to do with their
time, and in general be a very messy situation, so it's probably for
the best you don't mess with Nature, ne?  8-]

Besides, I wasn't all that impress with Harmageddon, anyway...

>PS:  The vast majority of anime nowadays is no better than the teen flicks
>that come out every summer where the main characters a)graduate from
>someplace b)decide to get drunk all the time and c)get laid.

*shrug*  Suit yourself...  It's probably true, mind you, but I'll settle
for the occasional diamond in the anime rough myself rather than longing
pointlessly for better.  If you want to revolutionize the anime industry,
more power to you - you'll need every ounce of it you can get.
-- 
Bill "Whassamatter?!  Can't you take a joke?!" Barnes   wbarnes@sura.net
Disclaimer:  The author apologizes for any thought-provoking material he may
	     have accidentally included and promises not to do it again.
Datclaimer:  My employers wouldn't WANT to share some of my opinions.