HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:02:08 GMT
	<9643@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> <1992Apr1.173245.6854@cattnts>
	<SBO.92Apr8195121@walhalla.vlsi.polymtl.ca>
	<skenny.702914304@femto.engr.mun.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <skenny.702914304@femto.engr.mun.ca> skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:

   sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:

   >How do you define demand? Where do you draw the line to decide whether or
   >not you provide a given service?

   >So far I have asked a zillion times to the people who use "where numbers
   >warrant" or "where there's demand" what this means exactly. I'm still
   >waiting for the answer.

   Well according to the office de la langue francais it is 50% : the most
   obvious case in point is Rosemere. What I don't understand why is there
   so much debate on whether francophones should get services in various
   parts of Manitoba, for example, and if they don't it is yet another
   example of English Canada's intolerence towwards the French speaking
   minority but in Rosemere themain thrust of the case put forward for
   unilingual french status is justified that we must protect the French
   language/culture and set an example for other similar communities in the
   province? This baffles me, since both french and english have survived
   for approximately 100 years in the community and at present is mostly
   french speaking. *SHRUG*

Note here that you do not answer my question. You start on another tangent.
I was asking what is "where numbers warrant" and you give me a number that
is not relevant for the rest of Canada. Then you go on telling that you
don't understand ... 

But since you insist on it, here's a quick answer:
I guess one should decide if French needs protection. If so then, assuming
that Canada is only one, every body should do their part from coast to
coast. On the other hand, if French does not need protection, then go ahead
and bash Rosemere. I believe you and many others will choose the later
scenario. On my part, I would probably choose neither ones. 

So, to get back with my question, what is the definition of "where numbers
warrant" that would be applied accross the country? You can't expect to use
something like "where numbers warrant" in a legal document. You would need
something unambiguous.  There's already something: "services for French and
English speaking people". You might not like it but this is not ambiguous.
If you want to replace this with something else you will have to come with
something better than "where numbers warrant".
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: Rosemere
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:51:58 GMT


 How about sending a letter of congratulations to the mayor of
Rosemere?
Does anyone have the address? Or is  

Maire de Roseme`re
Roseme`re
Quebec

sufficient?

Frank.
Xref: sparky can.general:2204 can.politics:3813 soc.culture.canada:3444
From: granado@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Bertrand Granado)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:49:34 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


In article <1992Apr14.051014.14732@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr13.213617.7345@tsltor.uucp> stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
|> >
|> >dictionary 3 (Larousse de poche)
|> >
|> >	nation n. f. Reunion d'hommes habitant un meme territoire, ayant une
|> >	origine, des traditions communes, des moeurs semblables et le plus
|> >	souvent un mem langue.
|> >
|> >Except for (3), which excludes women from national membership (oops, did that
|> >PC thing creep in again?)  all 3 seem pretty much the same to me.	
|> 
|> It does NOT exclude women. It says "hommes" instead of "humains".
|> You have to know that in France, they are not to the point yet to
|> translate all these male-only words in a neutral form.
|> 
|> In French in France, "hommes" in many cases mean "humains".
|> 
|> In French, we still speak of our species as "L'homme". ("Mankind").
|> 
|> It appears that in Quebec, we are more advanced that France for
|> women rights in the language...

Crois tu que c'est fondamental de dire professeure au lieu de professeur !
Je ne pense pas que les droits de la femme, soient plus bafoues dans le vocabulaire francais que dans le quebecois. 
L'important, c'est pas la forme c'est le fond.
je pense que si tu mets une forme sans fond, c'est de l'hypocrisie !

Bertrand,
Universite de Montreal.
|> 
|> 
|> Sylvain Chamberland
|> Dept. of Biology
|> University of waterloo
|> Waterloo, Ontario.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 21:31:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.210433.4758@tsltor.uucp> stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
>In article <9702@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:
>>.... Quebec is a nation.  If you contest this, you are confused
>>(if you think the use of confused here is pejorative, I am sorry,
>>but in my limited English, it is close of French confus which is
>>accurate here) between a Nation and a Country.
>
>Technically speaking (and I've seen this mistake dangerously repeated to the
>detriment of many), Quebec is not a nation.

I think you are making a mistake. For this reason: If you argue that Quebec
is not a nation, then you would have to argue that Scotland and Wales are not
nations either. And yet they obviously are.
One DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE separate status for the territory of a people to
be described as a nation.


>
>Quebec is a territory.  The Quebecois are a nation.  The Quebecois nation 

 Here you are defining the Quebecois exclusively in ethnic terms and this
is quite dangerous. Yes, Quebec is a territory; it follows that the Quebecois
are the PEOPLE in that territory, and these people are not only francophone.

>Quebec is not a
>nation-state because the people who live in Quebec are not all Quebecois:
>most anglo-quebecers and many allophones are not welcomed as Quebecois, nor
>do they consider themselves Quebecois (both of which are terms of being a
>member of a nation).  

 This is absolutely wrong and harmful.
Quebecker and Quebecois are the same thing, in different languages.
You are arguing that some residents of Quebec are not Quebecois.
This is the ethnic nationalist argument and it is extremely divisive.


>A nation is simply a group of people with shared
>aspirations, values, symbols, culture, and/or history.  That includes such
>groups as the Cree, the Innu, the Mohawks, the Quebecois, and, believe it or
>not, the anglo-Quebecers,  all of which live in the territory of Quebec. 

 So you would have all these different peoples divide off into separate
nations, rather than embrace the nation in which they live? (I am not saying
they cannot perceive themselves in these narrow terms; I AM saying they
should not.)
I am surprised that you are promoting this Romantic view of nationhood,
and that you reject the revolutionary model that the Left has traditionally
held.

>Many participants in the unity debate (on both sides) have made the grave
>mistake of confusing the territory of Quebec with the nation of the Quebecois.
>It is a dangerous mistake to make.

How is it dangerous?  How is it a mistake, except in terms of disagreeing
with your idea of ethnic nationalism?

Frank.
Newsgroups: can.general
From: alee@dgp.toronto.edu (Alison Lee)
Subject: taking a vehicle into US
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: can
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:09:54 GMT


I will be starting work in NY in a couple of weeks.  I have been told that
I may run into a problem in terms of trying to take my 10 year-old car
with me.  I tried phoning the US customs officials at the Toronto Airport
to get information on this but I have not succeeded in making a connection
(line is always busy).  

I would appreciate hearing from people who have attempted to do this.
In particular,
a) will I be prohibited from taking my car?
b) will I need to get some certificaton for my car?
c) is there paper work that I should do in advance of crossing with the car?
Any other additional information would be appreciated.  I will be crossing
on a Free Trade Visa (good for 1 year).  

Thanks, in advance,
Alison Lee
alee@dgp.toronto.edu

p.s. If this has been discussed before, I apologize for this and I would
appreciate getting the archive of this discussion.
Xref: sparky can.general:2229 can.politics:3854 soc.culture.canada:3479
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Distinct/Nation (was When do we stop being outsiders?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:17:49 GMT
	<1992Apr13.012102.11816@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
	<9804@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> <1992Apr15.060853.1113@unixg.ubc.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr15.060853.1113@unixg.ubc.ca> lermer@theory.chem.ubc.ca (Noah Lermer) writes:

   While different, discrete, distinct and separate all are synonyms in one
   sense, they have different shades of meaning. The word "distict" has
   echoes of "better" or "superior" in this language, a fact that

On the basis of the definition included in my dictionnary, I will have to
disagree. "Distinct" does not denote anything resembling better, superior,
etc. On the other hand, "distinctive" does denote some meaning of
superiority.
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Keywords:  frogs, plagues, excessive attributions
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 23:45:09 GMT

I've seen some articles on the "frog" thread (i.e. - where Sylvain speaks
for the redneck anglos, putting phrases like "Send the army after the frogs"
in their mouths), and the attributions are getting a LITTLE excessive.

Could you guys AT LEAST remove the top half, and say something like
"Excessive discussion involving offensive terms like `frog' deleted"?

Changing the Subject: line would probably be a good idea, assuming you
actually want the discussion to GO SOMEWHERE.
-- 
Christopher Browne
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
University of Ottawa
Master of System Science Program
From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Tony Wallis)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 9 Apr 92 11:04:05 GMT
Organization: York University

Marc WANDSCHNEIDER :
> .. universities train CS students to learn about computer science, and
> not 'how to program in language X'.  This is probably the best way ..
> However, for the most part, this isn't what corporations want,
> and most people end up having to learn COBOL and dBASE...
> Kinda sad.

Yes.  But what I find kinda sad is the extend to which many people in
universities care about what CORPORATIONS want.

But I'm not surprised.  In this world of big government, big business,
big labour and real-estate religion, we should expect "bigger is better",
"there's security in numbers", "hide in the crowd" and "go with the
flow" to parasitise tertiary level education.

--
tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada
Newsgroups: can.general
From: razzell@cs.ubc.ca (Dan Razzell)
Subject: Tax returns using EFILE
Keywords: tax EFILE
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 06:10:58 GMT

The 1991 Tax Guide briefly describes a mechanism called EFILE for filing
tax returns electronically.  Revenue Canada has a little logo for it and
everything, as well as approved filing agents, whatever that may mean.

My question is, has anyone encountered an approved EFILE tax preparation
program for Unix?  X Windows would be nice but even a character interface
is interesting.  Anybody know what it would take to write such a program
and get it approved, or is it just the file format that needs approval?

--
      .^.^.      Dan Razzell <razzell@cs.ubc.ca>
     . o o .     Laboratory for Computational Intelligence
     . >v< .     University of British Columbia
______mm.mm_______________________________________________
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
From: stefano@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (Bruno Di Stefano)
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: canada
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 05:10:56 GMT

In article <870086t.702698756@aucs> 870086t@aucs.acadiau.ca (Shannon Tremblay) writes:
> .............            ..............          ...................
>In the article it is suggested that there is currently a shortage of software
>workers that could reach over 14000 by 1995.
>
>It goes on to suggest that 12000 to 14000 more jobs will be available to people
>in the software industry by 1995.
>
>****
>
>MY QUESTION IS THIS
>
>As a graduating student with a BCS and 16 months of Co-op experience behind
>me and no job waiting for me at present;  I question the accuracy of these
>statements.  I know of a number of students here on campus, also graduating
>that are asking the same questions.
>If there is a shortage of workers, then WHY can we not get jobs.
>
As a practitioner with 2 years of telecommunications and 15+ years 
of hardware and software experience (I am 40) I feel that there 
is always scarcity of good, knowledgeable, cheap engineers and 
computer scientists :-)

I graduated in a period very similar to the present one, during a recession
(after the Kippur War and the consequent oil embargo). There were projections
of an engineering shortage of 150,000 units in 5 years...However, nobody
wanted to hire a new grad and everybody was looking for 5 years of experience
at a new grad's salary :-) Eventualy, for those of us who remained in 
engineering, enduring a couple of though years, the microprocessor boom came
and we came in high demand.

Not knowing anything about micros, I accepted a job paid 25% below the going
new grad rate (like having a M.A.Sc., two years of RF experience, and accepting
$24,000/year today). In two years I was at the same level of my manager
(12 years older than me).

To make long story short, the employers's point of view is that there is a
shortage of competent, knowledgeable, experienced, etc. professionals
at $32,000/year. In a sense they are right: if one has 5 years of UNIX and
C, 2 or 3 years of multitasking and real-time, 2 or 3 years of data comms,
one does not want to be paid $32,000-35,000/years. Thus, there is a 
shortage ...:-)

Employers want a favorable supply & demand situation.
Xref: sparky can.general:2132 can.jobs:166 ont.general:697 ont.jobs:140
From: steve@presoft.com (Steve Kohlenberger)
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 18:46:40 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Presoft Architects (Novell Developer)

echrzano@watmath.waterloo.edu (Edward Chrzanowski MFCF) writes:

> In article <1992Apr9.204810.16255@den.mmc.com> norman@possum.den.mmc.com (Ste
> 
> I have to agree.  I found a quote from a Heinlein book that I think is
> appropriate to this line of thought and have tried to follow its philosphy.
> 
> A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a
> hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build 
> wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
> alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a comput
> cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
> 
> Specialization is for insects.
> 
> Lazarus Long

Which book is this?  Sounds interesting.

Steve


   Steve Kohlenberger, PreSoft Architects  Internet: steve@presoft.com
   Novell Professional Developer                        (714) 538-6002
   Specialists in NLM and Disk/Tape Driver development for NetWare 3.X
Xref: sparky can.general:2178 ont.general:708 ont.jobs:155 can.jobs:182
From: jcarroll@jacc.com (Jim Carroll)
Reply-To: jcarroll@jacc.com
Newsgroups: can.general,ont.general,ont.jobs,can.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:52:38 GMT
Organization: J.A.CARROLLCONSULTING,TORONTO,CANADA

lomas@vis.toronto.edu (Dennis Lomas @ Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto) once wrote....
>cs911409@ariel.yorku.ca (RICHARD DAVID ASPINALL) writes:
>
>I would like comment on the previous topic  >--
>>Is it even necessary to have a computer science to get a high
>management position in a computer implementation area. In fact
>do you have to even be able to program.  The reason I raise this
>is that I have a friend would after 5-6 years in a large institution
>is now in charge of all small sysstem management, maintenance and
>aquisition. He actually started in the place as a temp workers doing
>word processing. He has a degree but no computer course, no programming
>in fact no scientific background. He knows no programming language. Yet
>would he does appears to be quite technical. +-----David Aspinall------------+-----------------------------------------+
>>|email: cs911409@ariel.yorku.ca |NeXT Step :what windows should have been!|
>>|vmail: (416) 604-3473                |OS/2 V2   :what windows should have been!|
>>+snail: Apt105 - 2001 Bloor St. W. Toronto, Ontario M6S 1M5 --------------+
>

From a management perspective, there is an increasing trend in
organizations to put the MIS department under the wing of non-computer
executive management, instead of a director of MIS from a computer 
background. Many companies are doing this by placing data processing/MIS
under the wing of the Chief Financial Officer. Others are recruiting
CIO's from other than computer backgrounds. The theory being that 
to properly deliver systems that fit business needs, the driver must
understand business....

jc


----
        ____     ___ ___       Jim Carroll, J.A. Carroll Consulting
          / /\  /   /          Mississauga, Canada   jcarroll@jacc.com
         / /__\/   /           Voice/Fax             +1.416.274.5605 
     \__/ /    \___\___        MCI, Bix              JCarroll   
                               Envoy 100             JA.CARROLL              

Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: Rosemere
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:00:29 GMT

evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:

[some stuff on debate deleted] 

>It gives me significant comfort that such views are not shared by all
>Quebecois. I was very pleased to see the results of the referendum in
>Rosemere recently, where a clear majority (I believe >70%) turned *down*
>a proposal to go unilingual.

One should also note that it is more important for those outside of
Quebec in the debate realize the tolerence of the views expressed by the
population of Rosemere.
 
>In interviews I had heard on CBC radio, the mayor had said that French
>was not in any danger in the city merely due to the co-existence of
>English. His main goal, he said, was the preservation of a community
>which worked well, where anglophones and francophones lived and worked
>together with a common respect for each others' cultures and languages....

If only this type of attitude was expressed across the board there
wouldn't be as much tension that is so prevalent today. (I think from
the conflict there also breeds some misunderstandings/mistrust)

>...Apparently the residents of Rosemere agreed, rejecting the pleas of the
>parachuted OLF intellectuals that unilingualism was the only way.

>I believe there may be lessons here for folks on *both*
>sides of the issue. Nothing beats a good dose of tolerance, co-operation,
>and benefit of the doubt.

I AGREE!!!!!!!

>I only received my information on the issue from As It Happens on CBC
>Radio. What have the other media said? Is it too much to ask the media
>to find some hope in this event, rather than yet more ammunition for
>this or that pet crusade?

WOW!!! I AGREED WITH SOMEONE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE TEXT!! :-)
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
Newsgroups: can.general
From: mckenzi@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (MCKENZIE  ROBERT NEIL)
Subject: Vancouver -> Toronto Airline ticket For Sale
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: can.general
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:07:55 GMT

	   A I R L I N E   T I C K E T   F O R   S A L E

		 Vancouver --> Toronto (one way)
		Travel any time after May 18th/92
		       Female passenger
		      Price $165.00 firm  

	      Please e-mail mckenzi@ecf.utoronto.ca

Xref: sparky can.general:2081 can.jobs:137 ont.general:670 ont.jobs:113
From: 850347s@aucs.acadiau.ca (Hume Smith)
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:45:57 GMT
Distribution: canada
Organization: Acadia University

870086t@aucs.acadiau.ca (Shannon Tremblay) writes:

>In the article it is suggested that there is currently a shortage of software
>workers that could reach over 14000 by 1995.

there's probably also a shortage of money to fill the shortage of people.
Newsgroups: can.general
From: merce@xenitec.on.ca (Jim Mercer)
Subject: David Sherman's Tax Tips for anonymous FTP
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1992 17:15:08 GMT

the taxtips file, including #34, are in cai.lsuc.on.ca:/pub/taxtips/taxtips.Z

-- 
[ Jim Mercer   ( merce@xenitec.on.ca ||  jim@lsuc.on.ca )     +1 519 893-6085 ]
[                Are there any middle-aged mutant ninja turtles?              ]
[        Unix Systems Facilitator for the Law Society of Upper Canada         ]
[                Disclaimer! I don't need no stinking Disclaimer!             ]
From: s36238f@kaira.hut.fi (Tim Klemets)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Canada = ?
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:12:35 GMT
Distribution: can.general
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland


I'd like to thank all of you who gave me the explanation(s) for
the name Canada (unfortunately, I still don't know which one of
them to choose :).  It was very interesting to read, even though
the answer obviously wasn't as clear as I thought.

Now I'll go celebrating easter, but will be back in a week.  Maybe
I'll ask some more stupid questions about Canada when I return.

--
   Tim.Klemets@hut.fi ** Aldrig mer en h{ftig signatur ** Fiksut signaturet 
   kypsytt{v{t minua ** Please don't expect a cool signature ** Tolle 
   Signaturen machen mich nerv|s ** Quoi? Non, je regrette, pas de signature
   pour le moment; revenez demain ** Mujeres y hombres, no tengo signaturas
   ahora - ?esta' claro? ** Nogalongo kulubumbura babullabadre
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada