HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hobbs@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Gerald R Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Can of corn?
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:38:44 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <olt.718040143@elwood.isgs.uiuc.edu>  
olt@elwood.isgs.uiuc.edu (Scott Olt) writes:
>> Does anyone know the origin of the phrase 'can of corn',
>> used to describe an easily-caught fly ball?
>> 

>I don't know if he originated it, but ex-Pirate broadcaster
>Bob Prince certainly made it famous.  In one game, he called
>a fly ball by an opponent a can of corn. The fielder (it may
>have been Matty Alou, but this was a LONG time ago so my
>memory is a bit shaky here) dropped it.  Folks from all around 
>begain mailing cans of corn to Prince.

It goes back a long way. In the days of dry goods stores you
didn't get a cart (they hadn't invented the wheel yet). You
gave the clerk a list and he took the stuff off the shelves
for you. The shelves were pretty high and instead of climbing
a latter 80 zillion times a day they just used a cane or other
such device to pull the stuff off the shelf. Whereupon they
caught it. Catching a can of corn was easy so ....
        Gerry
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood)
Subject: Re: Expos logo
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:25:21 GMT

In article <BvCGyv.6qJ@encore.com> jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe "Almost a dad" Lundy) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.220550.26845@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep28.181906.861@mala.bc.ca> epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp) writes:
>|> >In article <CB.92Sep28173954@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris  Brewster"'s millions") writes:
>
>|> It's in fact a capital M, with a lower case "e" and then a lower case "b",
>|> for Montreal Expos baseball.
>
>This is incorrect.  The "ELB" on the Montreal Expos' cap stands for (and
>pardon my French) "Exposition Le Beau", in celebration of Expo '67 in Montreal.


Seeing as there is no smiley here, I'll assume that you somehow consider
this comment serious. It is *wrong*. In every Expos' media guide that I have
ever purchased, it states explicitly "what the logo stands for", and it
stands for "Montreal Expos Baseball". Although there appears to be an "l"
in the logo, it is *not* part of the designer's intent. As for "Exposition
Le Beau".... I think ...rather, I *know* not!

Simon

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:20:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.235038.9656@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.150210.1135@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct2.211553.24079@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>>The problem here is, SLG left out a part that OBP does have that *should* have
>>>*some* slugging value; the walk.  Walks moves some runners, and RC gives walks
>>>.26 of a single in that component, which sounds about right.
>>
>>?? This doesn't address the statement at all. And if you're looking at 
>>"problems", it might be pointed out that OBP gives exactly the same weight
>>to HR as to walks.
>
>This is absurd.  OBP is not attempting to measure a player's overall

Now, it's no more "absurd" than saying "the problem with SLG is that it doesn't
include walks", now is it?

>value or anything like that.  It's simply the percentage of the time a
>player doesn't make an out.  Why should homers count more in OBP than
>walks?  Slugging, OTOH, is measuring how much a player can move runners
>along (and how far he can get by himself), and walks do move other
>players along.

Sometimes.

>>>Of course it can.  But if two players have the same OPS but different OBP and
>>>SLG, you should take the higher OBP, unless it's an extreme case like a taller
>>>version of Eddie Gaedel.
>>
>>Nope. Way too many exceptions (even at the team level) to make a statement like
>>that. I'd take a guy that matched my team's needs the best.
>
>That's probably true, but most teams in the majors (if not all) need OBP
>more than they need SLG, so therefore OBP is more valuable.

?? It depends on your team. As both contribute to scoring (and BTW, for the
most part, they are the same thing) it would depend on your team's needs. 
Another high OBPer behind Thomas isn't going to drive him in any more often.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Winning a short series (was Re: TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:29:15 GMT

In <19888@ector.cs.purdue.edu> gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter) writes:

>The fans in Toronto have seen 4 division winners in 8 years but won't
>be happy if Toronto doesn't make it to the World Series.  Toronto may
>have the edge in talent but their chances of winning a 7 game series
>is probably at most 55-60%.  Why not laud the real accomplishment (a
>division title) rather than frown if they fail as a 3-2 favorite (let
>alone fire the manager -- don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Cito
>replaced, but not making it to the series isn't the reason -- he's
>simply not a good tactical manager).  Also, anybody who thinks that

This Cito bashing is getting just a little rediculous ain't it?  If
Cito was to take his team to victory in the WS you would still replace
him because he was not a "good tactical manager"?

Would the blue jays have a better record with a good tactical manager
than they have had with Gaston?  Hardly.  Gaston has a career mark of
350-262 which averages out to about 93 wins a year.  How many managers
can squeeze 93 wins a year out of any team year after year?  Not many.
There is a lot more involved in bringing a group of very competitive
people together to achieve a common goal than simple tactics.  Yeah
I wouldn't have White leading off neither but i don't see Gillick banging
on my door with a management contract.

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: LATE NIGHT SCORE- BREWERS VS JAYS
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:05:06 GMT

For those of you who fell asleep before the end of the Brewers-Jays game:

A's took a 2-1 lead when a perfect inn-ending DP ball went right through Seitzer's
legs. Eck came on in the 9th and gave up a hit to Darryl Hamilton. He stole
second and was singled home to tie the game. A's had a great chance to win it
in the bottom of the 9th. With one out and a man on second, A's batter hits
a shot to center but Yount makes an INCREDIBLE diving catch to prevent the
winning run from scoring. In the 11th, Corsi gives up a few hits and the
Brewers take a 3-2 lead. Should have been 4-2 but when one of the Brewers
came home and collided with A's catcher Jamie Quirk, Quirk turned his shoulder
away from the play to protect himself for the collision but clearly NEVER
made the tag but the ump called him out. The ump wasn't in a position to see
the non-tag (but he was in the position that he was supposed to be in). Anyways,
Fetters came on in the bottom of the 11th and retired the side in order.
Brewers win 3-2. Jays magic number remains at one.
-----
Bri Farenell				CONGRATS TO 1992 CALDER CUP  
Clarkson '95					CHAMPIONS
farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu  	  THE ADIRONDACK RED WINGS
rec.sport.hockey's AHL contact	      ALSO: 1981, 1986 AND 1989 CHAMPS
-----							
"Eleven Israelis were dead. Machine guns were everywhere. Who knew what
would happen next. Going on made sense only if you believed in the idea
of sport as more than a game."	---Dave Kindred, on the 1972 Olympics


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: odd questions
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:01:44 GMT

In article <6424@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Thus spake TW.N82@isumvs.iastate.edu (BOB.PEDERSEN):
>>2) Is there a single published source with all the game scores for a
>>season?  (i don't mean different issues of sporting news, eg, bu t
>>-one volume_)
>
>No.  The closest thing I can think of would be the archived stuff being
>posted at wuarchive.wust.edu.  I'm not sure if they do box scores or not,
>nor how long archived material stays around.
>
>(You did mean box scores, right, and not just "Minnesota 5, Toronto 2"?)

Actually, The Sporting News has for the last several years published books
of box scores, one for each league.  They started in 1985, I believe, and
have published every year since.  The last couple of years, the books have
included the "official" stats as well.  However, since I heard that TSN
isn't printing box scores anymore, I don't know if they'll publish the box
score books for this year.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Three Hose Tidbits
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 16:52:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.154015.12059@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

>Isn't McCaskill famed for being difficult to steal against?  Or am I
>confusing pitchers?  Perhaps he should eschew this fame and simply
>ignore the baserunners occasionally?  If pitching from the stretch
>costs him that much...

Lance Parrish once called McCaskill the pitcher who has the best hold on the
runner that he has seen.  Of course, the year that Parrish made that comment
('89) McCaskill was very good all around.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gregh@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G. Hurtault)
Subject: Re: George Brett's 3000th Hit
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:06:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.190526.6681@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> stanm@comm.mot.com writes:
>
>As I didn't see it posted, or maybe I'm ignorant ( :-| ), congratulations to
>the Kansas City Royals' George Brett on #3000 last night. Maybe it's because
>it was done on the West Coast that the news of the accomplishment comes as a
>surprise, not to mention the injury that forced him to the bench the last
>two days.
>
>And he went 4-for-4. Vintage Brett.

  WRONG!!!  He went 4 for 5...

  :-P



-- 
      -----    |                   Greg Hurtault
     /     \   |            gregh@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
     | reg___  |                 
     \______/  |  Is that a wiggle or a struggle?" "Macho King" Randy Savage
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jays finally do it....
Date: 4 Oct 92 23:45:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article  <20922@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:

>Hmm.....These Jays can never finish without CHOKY plays....
>The term Jays and Choke have now become synonymous.

I guess 2 AL East titles and 4 in the last 8 years are the sign of a
bunch of chokers.  Oh yeah, and I guess 22-9 down the stretch (or
something like that) shows that the Jays choked and only won because
Milwaukee screwed up and lost a few games.  Sheesh.  The Blue Jays,
with all the high expectations, were set up to choke this year, but
didn't.  They won 96 games!  Boy did they choke!

Agreed.  They choked in 87.  But even then, the Jays did lose two key
players (Tony Fernandez and Ernie Whitt) for the final week.  They did
lose the last 3 games of the 1985 ALCS to KC, but Cardinals did the
same thing in the World Series and no one calls them chokers.

Sure, they've never gone beyond the ALCS and have looked (and were)
over matched against the Twins and As in their last two playoff
appearances.  I'll admit that Cito Gaston did not manage well in
either series, but in both cases a poor hitting Jays team ran into
excellent pitching staffs which shut them down.  The Jays staff had
much better hitters to contend with and in both cases the result was
an early playoff exit.

This year it should be different (I say *should* because the hottest
team at the time, not always the best team, usually wins a short
series -- yes, 7 games is a short series in baseball).  The Jays have
a strong starting rotation (although Morris, despite his record last
year, is suspect) and their hitting is much improved from last year.
Oakland's hitting is not nearly as good as 1989 and neither is their
pitching staff.  Oakland does have much better depth than Toronto
(which LaRussa uses very effectively) and should be more rested (i.e.
Gaston plays his starters so much, they have to be feeling it at this
time of the year -- especially Pat Borders -- 135+ games at catcher!).

Actually, if Milwaukee could have made the playoffs, they'd have a
great shot a winning the whole thing this year.  Their pitching has
been phenomenal down the stretch.  I think Oakland would much rather
play Toronto right now, if only because of Toronto's past failures,
but it won't matter.

Prediction:	Jays over A's in 6.
		Pirates over Braves in 6.

		Jays over Pirates in 7.

Carl
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:55:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.235516.18875@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.160111.3254@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>>Carter has been a part-time palyer at a starter's salary for the Expos. Though
>>he is better than Fletcher, he has played less than Pena. Parish went to the
>>mariners, and is a backup catcher. Most likely, Pena is a better catcher than
>>any of the above, and a combo of Parish/Carter would no doubt have cost the
>>Red Sox a sum of money they could not afford on top of what they're paying
>>Pena. Add to that the they have a possible catcher for next year in Wedge,
>>and those moves you suggest don't appear to strengthen the Red Sox (BTW, 
>>Carter has announced his retirement).

>Nice circular reasoning there, Mike.  Carter and Parrish shouldn't be
>starting because they aren't starting.  And they aren't starting because they
>shouldn't be starting.  I love that logic.

I'm certain you like it: you invented it all by yourself. Nothing was
said about "should" (except by yourself). Again, you can pick your own words
and argue against them, but you don't really need to read anyone else's posts
to do that. In any event, Carter has split time because (in all likelihood)
he could not handle the catching duties full-time. Same with Parrish. Not, at
this stage in his career, a full-time catcher (ask the Angels). Put them in
at full-time catcher and their hitting stats would probably drop (or they'd
go back on the DL, a la Parrish).

>If the Red Sox did sign Parrish, they *should* start him.  Whether if they do
>is a different question.

No doubt, the Angels would have started him if they felt he could have handled
the catching duties full-time; their rotation is horrible. BTW, Parrish does
occasional catching duty with the Mariners, in spite of having a better bat
than Valle. Looks like a backup player, Nelson.

>And no, just because a player starts is not a proof that the player is a
>better player.  Otherwise, Alfredo Griffin would be a great player in '88.

Again, you're arguing against your own words. I never called Griffin a great 
player. I will say he was contributing.

Mike

-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: What is baseball?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:11:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.175947.13502@cs.brown.edu> cs169061@cs.brown.edu (Michael Kalman) writes:
>          Your perfectly right that the game is roughly 50% total 
>hitting, and 50% total pitching+defense.  But when most people 
>refer to pitching being more important than hitting, what they're
>really talking about is how to best build a winning ballclub.
>
>        The ratio of batters to pitchers is about 3:2 (~10 pitchers 
>per 25 man roster).  Since pitching is by far the most important
>factor in how many runs a team will allow, a team can improve 
>more in the runs-allowed category by adding 'x' number of pitchers
>than it can improve its runs-scored by adding 'x' number of 
>hitters.   
...
>         Moreover, when you add extra pitchers to a ballclub, 
>you can bump off the weakest pitchers from those you already
>have. But this doesn't work as well for hitters because 
>acquiring a great hitting firstbasemen doesn't let you
>bump a weak hitting shortstop from the lineup.  

These are good points, but there's also a flip side to the issue: namely,
that individual hitters are more consistent year to year than are
individual pitchers.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jack is a winner
Date: 30 Sep 1992 01:06:06 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Sep27.021242.6089@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep26.222036.16948@r-node.gts.org> shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu) writes:
>>
>>Well salty, I'm with you.  This is exactly why Jack Morris is a winner.
>>Who gives a damn about ERA if you consistently lose games.  No matter
>>how high the ERA is, if at the end of 9 innings, you get the W, you have
>>done your job right, and YOU ARE A WINNER.
>
>Hm.  Like Friday?  When the Jays had a chance to finally put away the
>division?  So Morris "pitched to the score", giving up his usual four
>runs.  His teammates scored only one.  Doesn't sound like a winner to
>me.  At least not by your definition.
   
   That game really didn't mean squat. The Jays weren't really in trouble
   yet. However, on Sunday the Jays were in trouble 'cause the Brewhas had
   closed to within two. Morris pitched six shutout innings. Sounds like a
   winner to me.

   Also, he pitched that game on three days rest so Gaston could finalize
   his playoff rotation. Guess who's pitching in game one? That's right,
   it's the winner!!

   --salty

>Cheers,
>-Valentine
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Swing! Alfredo Swing!
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:49:42 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

Yesterday on ESPN, I saw a clip of an at bat by our hero Alfredo in a 
game against the Yankees.  Apparently, it was the fifth inning, it was
raining and Alfredo was trying to speed things up so that the game
would become official.  On the third strike, Alfredo swung across the
plate at a pitch that was about five feet from the strike zone.

What ESPN did not show was what happened after that.  It looked like
Alfredo was headed to the dugout but the catcher did not catch the ball.
What would have happened if the defensive team did not tag out Alfredo
or record the out at first.  Would the out be official on the next pitch
to the next batter?  Would Alfredo be out for running out of the baselines?

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark
From: twromero@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Michael Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Which team is most improved???
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:12:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: McGill Research Centre for  Intelligent Machines
Originator: twromero@damrod.mcrcim.mcgill.edu


In article <1992Oct1.222355.27143@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, crobbins@lonestar.utsa.edu (Chris S. Robbins) writes:
|> 
|> Lets start a debate.  Which team has improved the most this year.
|> 
|> Personally, I say the Astros.  Why?  1. Their record compared to last year.
|> 2. The road trip from hell (12-14) made them a better team for the future
|> (i.e. built some character)
|> 
|> I know there will be different opinions, so lets hear them.
|> 
|> chris
|> 
|> --
|> Chris Robbins
|> Sigma Tau Gamma
|> University of Texas- San Antonio
|> 1990-91 TransAmerica Athletic Conference Regular Season Basketball Champions
|> 1991-92 Southland Conference Regular Season Basketball Champions
|> 1992-93 ???
|> (I know it's basketball, but we just got baseball here last year!)


   Don't forget the Montreal Expos!  

   Last to second in NL East

   All done, like the Astros, with one of the lowest team salaries.
From: itlm013@natasha.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: NL ROY: Why not Reggie Sanders?
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:48:13 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In reading this newsgroup, and McThang, I've noticed that quite a
few people (maybe not all, but a sizable portion) seem to be ceding
the NL Rookie of the Year award to LA's Eric Karros.

Why?

I don't have the numbers with me at this exact moment, but my recollection
is that Sanders has had a better year, both offensively and defensively,
than Karros, and he's played it at a tougher defensive position.

Is Sanders not eligible for the award?  I'm *really* curious.  Giving it
to Karros because he's the only bright spot on an otherwise lackluster
season for LA seems like a pretty poor reason.

Dennis Cleary
future loser to Gary's RC-driven fantasy team
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: odd questions
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:54:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.162921.3553@news.iastate.edu> TW.N82@isumvs.iastate.edu (BOB.PEDERSEN) writes:
>SOME OBSCURE QUESTIONS, WITH TYPOS
>
>I'm getting to the point whe re the people around me are not able
>to answer all my baseball questions:
>
>1)  Andre Dawson got his 2500th hit in a game that threatened to be
>a rainout.  Would his hit have counted if the game had been called
>before it became official?
>
>2) Is there a single published source with all the game scores for a
>season?  (i don't mean different issues of sporting news, eg, bu t
>-one volume_)
>
>3) Can switch hitters or switch pitchers (I have heard of at least
>one) change during an at bat?
>
The PITCHER must decide which side to throw from and stick with it.

RStimets



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@monet.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Sommers)
Subject: Re: Blue Jay musings...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:54:20 GMT

In article <BvCxL5.7CK@math.uwaterloo.ca> The FASS Theatre Company <fass@math.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>
>IF the Blue Jays win the East division(Big IF, Milwalkee frightens me).
>I've heard some rumblings that the pitching rotation Cito will go with
>is:
> 	Jack Morris
>	Juan Guzman
>	David Cone
>
>Now this set up has Jack pitching games 1,4,7 and although he has the best
>record (The only Blue Jay to ever win 20) I really don't think he's the
>best pitcher.
>

On the contrary, I've heard it may very well be:

	Morris
	Cone
	Key

Considering Key has won 5 straight and Guzman is struggling
with his control, I'm not surprised.
Paul Sommers
paul@monet.uwaterloo.ca


-- 
Paul Sommers               | "Television.  Drug of the nation.
paul@monet.uwaterloo.ca    |  Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation"
University of Waterloo     | 
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA  |    -Terminal City Ricochet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball