HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Distribution: world
From: assist@ultramac.uucp (Harley Nolan)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:33:59 CDT
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters

JH>>>Any business that treats its customers like criminals deserves to go out
of business.

You obviously have never been on the "store-owner" end.  Preventing
shoplifting is an excercise in futility.  Had you not ignored their policy of
showing the gear upon entry to the store, you would not have had the
embarrasing experience on the way out.  

Don't forget, if nobody got away with shoplifting, we, the consumer would have
consistently, significantly lower prices.

Harley Nolan
assist@oui.com

Newsgroups: misc.consumers,soc.culture.usa,misc.misc,rec.autos
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 03:52:10 GMT

In article <rotheroe.727653014@convex.com> rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe) writes:
>>4 mph in 65 mph is a quite small percantage.
>>Remember that if the police use radar, they just CANNOT work on the minimum
>>accuracy of their speedo/radar - they HAVE to add in the maximum tolerance
>>on your speedo:
>
>>	Example: My speedo says 65. It has +/- 4% accuracy, and
>>		 actually reads 4% low. My real speed is therefore 67.6 mph.
>
>But you are actually seeding.  Technically, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

this is a mistake of fact, not ignorance of the law.
and mistake of fact *can* be an excuse.  in this case,
though, the law may hold the owner responsible for the
accuracy of his speedometer.

-teddy
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna)
Subject: Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:45:13 GMT

Okay, it's clear that no one seems to like the new stuff.  But am I missing
something here about it *tasting* so different?  Didn't they just ditch
the coloring, leaving the flavor alone?  Can you identify Pepsi Clear in
a blind taste test vs. Pepsi Unclear?

--Tom K.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Subject: Re: Pre-Approved card Mail in annual fee??
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:08:25 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.17c by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <C1FI3u.Aqq@encore.com> slightbo@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Sam Lightbourne) writes:
>My wife received a pre-approved credit application for a Gold MC
>they offer a $10,000 credit line.  All they ask is that she mail 
>in the "annual fee" payment of $39. This is not covered in the FAQ,
>but I smell a rat? What do you think? 

Are you sure that this is a Gold MasterCard or does it just say "Gold Card".  
If it is the latter, then it is a scam, it is not a MC or Visa but some 
useless card that can only be used to buy overpriced merchandise from their 
own catalog.  Ditch the mail as quickly as you can.  

-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Car Phone Experiences Wanted
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:29:00 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com


We have the standard Motorola car phone (model not in  my head at this 
time). It's actually mounted in the car. Antenna is glass mounted on the
car also. Make sure to get the hands free microphone mounted in the
visor. Hand's free is the only way to go when actually driving. Phone,
including installation was $319. There will probably be a $40-$50
provider one-time charge for activation. Normal. Ours was $45. Our phone
rate is $13.95 per month with .35 prime/.10 non-prime. I have service
from U.S West and got a group discount rate because my employer is a
major user also.  Your rate might be higher.

Note: Standard car phones are a full 3 watts, the handheld and some of
the "bag" phones are only .6. Do some research. We sure did.


( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
From: bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Credit Card Directory?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:04:02 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.tamu.edu

In article <3967.502.uupcb@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us> john.ewin@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (John Ewin)  writes:
>
> [talking about Citibank's new 15.4% "premier" rate]
>
>-Supposedly, according to a rep., they review all accounts every
>3 mos.  I was elligible (with no real change in account status over the
>last 2 years!) as of 1/1/93, and supposedly you need a year in good
>standing, but either that is a crock, or the plan was JUST implimented.

I had been hearing about the Premier plan for a while.  I called them and
asked them if I could have the lower rate.  She put me on hold for about
30 seconds while she "reviewed my account" then gave me the lower rate.

So if you don't get the rate automatically, it couldn't hurt to call them
and ask for it.  It appears, from people I've talked to, that they don't
give it out automatically.  But maybe they just started the big rollout.

WBB

--
Will Bell -- bell@cs.tamu.edu -- Live from the heart of Scenic Central Texas
"Why did you pour ink on my head?"
From: Donald Mackie <donald_mackie@med.umich.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: What to do if your wallet is stolen
Date: 28 Jan 1993 00:18:04 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Anesthesiology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.86.38
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXDate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 01:18:05 GMT

Subject: Re: What to do if your wallet is stolen
>Henrik Schmiediche (henrik@stat.tamu.edu) wrote:

<Lots of helpful hints deleted>

My suggestion is to photocopy everything in your wallet every now and
then. Keep the photocopy in a <safe place>. It is very usefule to have
all the information on a few sheets of paper.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: markm@wri.com
Subject: Re: Lightweight bullet-proof vests illegal?
Reply-To: markm@wri.com
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:40:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.172539.19384@fuug.fi> an8130@anon.penet.fi writes:
> 
> I'm in the market to purchase a lightweight bulletproof vest (downtown
> in the U.S. city I live in can get pretty rough, but I don't want to
> be burdened down by a heavy bullet-proof vest).
> 
> The guy in the next office tells me that the lightweight bullet-proof
> vests are illegal except for police, secret service, etc (cuz they
> don't want criminals to be immune to police bullets, etc).
> 
> Can anyone verify this?  Is it illegal:
> 
> a) for a person to sell me a lightweight bullet-proof vest,
> b) for me to purchase a lightweight bullet-proof vest,
> c) for me to be in possession of a lightweight bullet-proof vest.
> 
> How many of the above are true?

I know they sell several different types of bullet proof vests at SAMS (!) for  
prices starting around $300.  However they will not sell you one unless you  
have a special permit of some type.  I've never had cause to look into it  
further than this.

I also remember reading about a new line of bullet-proof attire from everyone's  
favorit Iran-Contra hero, Ollie North.  Apparently he's designing a line of  
"clothes" for many different occupations.  Of particular interest to me was the  
bullet-proof photographers vest.  Looks like a regular photo vest with a  
bzillion pockets for everything.  Only difference is there's a kevlar lining  
protecting your hide.  Very useful for photojournalists in dangerous areas.

--Mark
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Car Phone Experiences Wanted
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:29:09 GMT

In article <C1DE1s.GGz@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
>My wife has decided that she needs a car phone, but we have no idea what
>to look for or why. If you've gone through this recently, would you
>share your experiences?

Consumer Reports had a good article recently on cellfones.
Described various features and costs in addition to the
ratings.  Jan 93 issue.  Check your local library.
-- 
Rich Greenberg      Work: rmg50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com   310-417-8999
N6LRT               Play: richg@hatch.socal.com       310-649-0238
What?   Me speak for Amdahl?  Surely you jest....
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: niebuhr@bnlux1.bnl.gov (david niebuhr)
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:36:19 GMT

In article <wfLKkAK00WBOI22X1A@andrew.cmu.edu> David Goldreich <dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>A friend of mine will be taking out auto insurance soon.  In the past
>he has gotten a couple of speeding tickets.  He is planning on 
>"forgetting" about the tickets when the insurance company asks.  
>(I don't believe he has any points or any other easy way for the
>insurance company to find out.)
>
>Obviously there are ethical issues that must be addressed, but I
>have a more basic question.
>
>If he were to get into a serious accident and the insurance company
>investigates and finds out he lied on the application, will the
>insurance pay for the accident?  i.e. does lying on the application
>mean your not insured, or does it mean that you are insured but are
>cheating the company on the premium?
>
>If he is not really insured (presumably in a major accident the insurance

Tell your friend to take a *very close look* at the application form.
There are statements about not admitting to having accidents/tickets, etc.

"Forgetting" them is a misdemeanor/felony in some states and to put it
very bluntly: "Are you planning on riding with him/her at anytime?"  If
you are, then be prepared to have big bucks if you get hurt in an accident.

>Suppose someone takes out life insurance and "forgets" that he has
>cancer or AIDS.  The insurance company can't be liable in such a case,
>can it?

Same thing about "forgetting" as with car insurance.

Dave

-- 
Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: 25 Jan 1993 07:30:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

Rob Boudrie writes:
>This varies depending on the state and attitude of the store.  Here
>in Mass. many larger department store security staffs have "special
>police status" with limited police powers on store property (which,
>among other things, makes taking a swing at one "assault on a police
>officer" and resisting detention "resisting arrest").

However, in Mass. they don't *need* to use special staff to detain
shoplifters.  Your state has a statute specifically authorizing
stores to detain people if the store has reasonable grounds to
suspect shoplifting.

Next time I'm real bored, I'll check all fifty states to see if there is
any state that doesn't allow this.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: withrow@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Jim Withrow)
Subject: Re: any NO FEE ATM in Santa Clara ?
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center, Power Systems Facility
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:42:21 GMT

In article <4090126@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> quan@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Suu Quan) writes:
>From: quan@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Suu Quan)
>Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 20:33:37 GMT
>Subject: any NO FEE ATM in Santa Clara ?
>My bank branch "Southern California Savings" is being sold to Eureka Bank.
>I used to have this service : 
>
>No fee when using an Automatic Teller Machine from another bank.
>
>
>Is there another bank in the South Bay (san Jose / santa clara) area
>that allows you to get cach from other banks' ATM without charging you ?
>
>Thanks in advance.


I can't figure out why the stupid banks charge for ATM usage when it is 
CHEAPER for them if thier customers use them than use tellers!

I saw a report which stated that it cost a bank about 30-40 cents per 
transaction when you used an ATM and well over $1.00 if you used a teller
(which is free).

Just another way to screw the consumers!

Jim Withrow
 
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Withrow                         |
NASA LeRC  MS: 333/2                |
21000 Brookpark Rd.                 |   I can't spell and I don't care!
Cleveland OH  44135  (216) 433-8315 |     withrow@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Subject: Re: Greedy Banks Re: Banks that offer debit cards???????
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:54:16 GMT

>So why are they still in business?  If they have such annoying charges
>and fees, why don't their customers just use some other bank?
>

They have the ONLY statewide network of ATM machines which does not 
require that you access them thru a network and pay a fee.  They
seem to realize this is their big draw, and do not charge a fee
(assuming a certain minimum balance) to use their own ATM's.  Of
course, their fee ($1.75) to use another bank's ATM is right up
their on the high side of the spectrum.

                                        rob b.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: pbwhite@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (White)
Subject: ZIMA  was Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 08:35:13 EST

O.K. So lots of people have opinions about Pepsi Clear, which I have not
tasted because we are not a test market city for the stuff.  But I have 
had Zima (a clear alcoholic beverage - not a beer - I believe they call it
a malt ale).  I'm curious as to reaction to this.  I believe it is only 
being test marketed in three cities, one being Syracuse.  To me it tastes
like a watered down fresca.  A distinctive citrus taste.

Brian
From: ewv@craycos.com (Eric Varsanyi)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:30:35 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1_k3+rp@rpi.edu> wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin) writes:
>restitution.  In fact, they might detain me in the office and not allow
>me to leave.  They then might make me sign an admission that I was a
>thief, on the threat of laying a criminal charge.

Actually, my girlfriend works at a Target and when she started they had
a security briefing. No one (not even the security guys at the store)
can 'detain' anyone from leaving, or use any other type of physical
force on them. If someone is observed shoplifting the manager (or
security types) can go over and say anything they want (I'm sure they
make up some good stuff to convince the person that they must stay in
the store, sign a release, etc...) but if the person walks out the
front door they can't stop him/her, if anyone tries the legal fees and
damages possible far outweigh whatever the value of the item they might
be able to carry off.

>Then they might bring
>a civil suit against me for $100 damages.

Wouldn't they need to know your name first? Given that they can't keep
you there they would probably have a tough time filing suit. It would
be a bad idea to show your face around there again (IMHO).

I'm not advocating shoplifting, people should just know that (especially
if someone doesn't know your name) threats made by manager types at
various establishments (especially physical theats) are just excess verbiage.
If they sound authorative and make nasty threats most people will go
along. Remeber though: don't try this at home, shoplifting is still a crime
and if they do get your license plate number or call the cops into the
store you are in deep doo-doo.

-Eric
From: ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Help!    (stolen wallet troubles)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:57:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu

In March last year my wallet was stolen.  It contained many credit
cards (all of which I dealt with by calling the companies) and a
drivers license.

Many months went by and nothing felt amiss.
Then a few months ago someone went crazy opening accounts with department
stores etc. in my name (presumably using my drivers license).

I was contacted by several stores about this.  In one case they sent
me a copy of the form the bad guy had filled up, and it was glaringly
obvious that the signature was not me.  I had to get my statement
notarised for some of them, etc.  I phoned the Santa Monica police
and they said this is fraud, and not a police matter.

Now today I got a call from a collection agency on behalf of Unocal.
The rude man refused to believe anything I said.  He asked me if I'd
filed a police report (he insisted losing a drivers license is a
matter worthy of filing a police report).  He promised to start
proceedings in court against me and slammed the phone.

What do I do?  Unlike the other department stores, Unocal never
contacted me directly.  This collection agency is the only thing I've
ever seen.  If I get summons from a court, what do I do?  I can't
really afford to hire a attorney.

        -ans.
-- 
Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@rcf.usc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: How to fight telemarketers
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:18:10 GMT

hroth@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Harris Roth) writes:

>In article <1993Jan21.184535.17960@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>	What irks me most of all is the computer auto-dialers.  Most
>>of them won't relinquish the line if you hang up on them.  I've
>>had my line tied up for *30 minutes* whlie it cycles thryu the whole
>>schpiel!  Aside from leaving msgs in the gaps like "I can't dial 911

This comes up in comp.dcom.telecom occasionally.  When you are called
(as opposed to when someone calls you), you can hang up the phone for
a short period of time without dropping the connection.  This is
meant as a feature so that if you pick up the phone in an inconvenient
place you can switch.  I think the timeout is commonly around 20 seconds.

People making this complaint about autodialers have usually been picking
up the phone over and over to see if the autodialer has gone away.  This,
of course, resets the timer.

Some special lines, like 911, are set so the call can only be broken from
one end (the dispatcher's office).  This capability is not made available
to telemarketers.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                            kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                       +1 606 257 2975
Dept. of Mathematics "Your ball goes over them, it sails off the edge into a
huge cauldren of fire-breathing dragons."  "And they call this a par three?"
From: kurt@think.com (Kurt Thearling)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: FORD VISA Card (was Re: Discover Card - Pffffft!)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:01:33 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: duchamp.think.com

In article <1993Jan20.005335.23192@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <1jhr70INN35v@dayub.dayton.saic.com> Tom Haberlandt <haberlat@ccmail.dayton.saic.com> writes:
>>
>>The Discover card is the only card I know of that will PAY you
>>to use it (No annual fee in Ohio yet).  Charge all you can, pay it ...
>
>Try the Ford Card, it is a Visa Card which is accepted in more places
>and gives you twice as much money back as Discover.

Yesterday I received something in the mail from FORD regarding my VISA
card.  They are supposedly upgrading it to some form of VISA gold card but
the killer is that they are cancelling the rebate program (1.5% on all
purchases).  Has anyone else received this same letter or am I unique
(e.g., are they only doing this to people who pay it off fully every month
like I do)?  Without the rebate the card loses it appeal when compared to
the GM or GE cards.

- kurt
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Bread makers: recommendations?
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:52:42 GMT
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhambra.pa.dec.com

> The approach I'm taking is to call Panasonic and Hitachi and others and 
> get their sales literature on the bread machines.  It's so hard to shop 
> and compare features when one store has one Panasonic model and another 
> store has another Panasonic model.  I plan on picking the model I want 
> from the literature and then go looking for a store that has it.

Panasonic has alot of models, but I don't think there are significant
differences between models, other than max. size of the loaf (1#, 1.5#)
and whether or not there is a yeast dispenser.  The other model number
differences are probably mostly for cosmetic things like colors.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Pre-Approved card Mail in annual fee??
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:51:59 GMT
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <C1FI3u.Aqq@encore.com>, slightbo@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Sam Lightbourne) writes:
> My wife received a pre-approved credit application for a Gold MC
> they offer a $10,000 credit line.  All they ask is that she mail 
> in the "annual fee" payment of $39. This is not covered in the FAQ,
> but I smell a rat? What do you think? 

	Get out the traps.  Most likely it is either:

	A) a "service" that merely is a go between for the real card issuer (in
which case the $39 is simply their fee)

	or

	B) an outright scam

	Most card issuers that I know of simply put the annual fee (if there is
one) on the first month's bill.

Brett
"The opinions and views expressed here are strictly my own and do not 
necessarily reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air Force 
or its contractors."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:26:35 GMT

In article <1js6d4INNj1n@mojo.eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>The same applies to private citizens, in general. Any citizen has the
>right to detain by physical means, if necessary, anyone suspected of
>committing a crime. The crime doesn't even have to be a felony.

Let's be careful out there.  Suspicion isn't enough for a
misdemeanor.  You must personally observe the suspect commit it.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus