From: mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: None worth mentioning.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 16:06:56 GMT

In article <C0FF9F.En8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
>
>>In article <C0CBty.n1y@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>
>>>I freely admit that a preborn baby human being is not LEGALLY defined
>>>as a "person".  The moral and scientific evidence that it SHOULD be
>>>defined as such has been beat to death already.  
>>>
>>When? All I've ever seen is medical and scientific evidence that it is
>>*not* a person. As in, not sentient etc. Care to show otherwise?
>
>Is a newborn sentient?  Is a person in a coma sentient?   Is a sleeper
>sentient?  Is a mentally retarded person sentient?  
>
I'll address these one at a time.
"Is a newborn sentient?"
Yes. There is evidence that infants as early as a day or so are capable
of recognising their mothers.

"Is a person in a coma sentient?"
Depends on the coma, and the amount of brain damage the person has
suffered.

"Is a sleeper sentient?"
Certainly. Just wake them up if you doubt it...

"Is a mentally retarded person sentient?"
Certainly. We have a gentleman working at the hospital in the kitchen
who is MR, and I don't think anybody disputes his sentience. 

>>I see that in addition to not being able to define the limits of your
>>own body, you don't under stand the difference between pro-choice and
>>pro-abortion. Gordon is pro-abort, I'm pro-choice.
>
>Conceded.  
>
How nice of you to admit the obvious.

>>But since you claim you're looking things up and curing your
>>ignorance, then post some of this mythical evidence that shows that a
>>fetus is a person.
>
>I really don't see the point.  It's all been said before.  Viability,
>personhood, quickening, whatever...
>
Nice vague answer, considering that all the evidence wrt the
characteristics you mentioned indicate that a fetus (especially the
90+% of them which are aborted before the earliest possible date of
viability) are in no way people.

>If God himself plopped down in front of you and said abortion was wrong
>you'd still find a way to ignore Him.  
>
If I were confronted by a purported god, I would expect him/her to
validate this claim by providing evidence. Much as we have repeatedly
asked you to provide evidence to support your claims. If the claimant
provided no more support then you have been able to, I would take
him/her no more seriously then I do you.
After his credentials wrt godhood were estabilished, then I would
discuss the issue. Right after he/she explained some of the more
idiotic things attributed to him.

>[Lotsa Lotsa stuff deleted]  
>>                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
Oh look, there's that "way cool" userid that you want people to haze
me about... :)

>Edward Simmonds

--
                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
These are the views of my employer, your employer, your government, the
Church of your choice, and the Ghost of Elvis. So there.
Member, T.S.A.K.C.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion