HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: rules
Date: 11 Apr 92 10:13:32 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <9204110415.AA24885@zaphod.uchicago.edu> tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Tushar Samant) writes:
>This one question has always confused me. What does it mean to say that
>the "concept of rules is illusory" ? It might be said that even though
>rules describe behaviour, that's not how behaviour is "implemented".
>But what is the meaning of "such and such behaviour is implemented by
>such and such rules" ? If they are implemented by magic or by networks
>which learn, they are still implemented by those "rules", aren't they ?
>
>Is there any notion of "implementation" by rules which is different from
>that of "behaviour which accords to the rules" ?
>
>tushar

I believe there is.  Take for instance "Michie's Matchbox Machine"
which is a famous AI experiment in how to play naughts & crosses.

You have a pile of matchboxes each marked with a possible state
of the grid plus the next possible move.  You play at random at
first, and after each game you win you put a match in the boxes
you used if you won, and take a match out of each if you lost.

Eventually the correct moves are signalled by full matchboxes
and the bad ones by almost empty boxes.

Now, if you analyse the system you ended up with, you *could*
say it plays by the rule 'put your first two crosses in opposite
corners'.  But equally you could describe it by some other rule
that happens to work, like 'don't put your first two crosses on
the same side'.  Now that rule wouldn't be quite right, just as
our attempts to describe the rules of English aren't always quite
right.

The fact is the rules just don't exist; all that exists is reinforcement
of individual cases.  English has no rules; it is all exceptions.  It's
just that very many of the exceptions happen to be the same :-)

Graham
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:58:31 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         leah <LEAH%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Natalie-although I have known this since high school and am much beyond that
stage, I speak and write with grammatical correctness (?grammarly?). Neverthe-
less, although I also learned many rules (of usage), somehow or other, I never
really learned grammar. I was doing ok until the first time a teacher showed us
 how to parse a sentence. I didn't understand her explanation and blocked from
there on in. For day to day usage, I imagine that "knowing" grammar is not ter-
ribly important if one is exposed to good writing and diction. But some of us n
eed to understand the basis for certain facts in order to learn others. Memoriz
ation for us (at least for me) works only if I have a context. Consequently,
a few years ago, when I tried to learn Latin (just because I was interested) I
found it almost impossible because I did not know grammatical case and could
not easliy memorize those cases that seemed to have no equivalent usage in
English. So, for me, knowledge of grammar would have been useful. Can anyone re
commend a good English grammar book? With explanations?
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: Odder and Odder
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:28:39 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <WORDS-L%92040910293739@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU (Carol Goodson) writes:
:It seems more awful that Arthur Ashe got AIDS because of how he got it...
:through a blood transfusion during what WAS supposed to be a healing
:procedure.     I admire him for being able to be so calm about it...I'm
:afraid I might be suing... at least I'd be bitter.

Implying that everyone else who gets aids deserved what they got?  Or
am I misreading you?

G
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:15:55 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN

>And a child doesn't internalize the rules so much as internalizing their
>understanding of the system. That's why children have grammatical
>inconsistencies: *doggses* and *feets* for instance. Their understanding of the
>system is incomplete.

Or their acquisition of the rules of English morphology is incomplete. :-)
They are still in the process of sorting out the rules that determine when
a particular allomorph of the plural morpheme is used.

> say) system, they must have internalized some sort of "plural" rule. But the
> rule breaks down very quickly.

The rule doesn't "break down."  They are still in the process of acquiring
rules like the morphophonemic realization of plurals.

> If, on the other hand, they've absorbed a
> system, their system can self-correct instead of having to internalize yet
> another rule and maybe another until they finally get the correct rule.

Are you saying that the rule of English morphophonemics that says that
[z] is the allomorph that follows a voiced consonant and [s] a voiceless
consonant (other than sibilants) is not a rule but is rather a system?
I see it as a rule.  How, according to your "system," does the child
"self-correct"?
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:27:12 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      character named Michael Godwin

You are not going to believe this one bit, but my name has appeared in a story
which was read by a fairly large number of MArathi-speaking kids. It was a
school story. I had the shock of my life seeing the name "Tushar Samant" in the
story. It just came up without warning. And guess what the character was like.
Ungainly bespectacled nerd whose only achievement was topping the class.

Names have magic properties.

tushar
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:57:52 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Rita Marie Rouvalis <rita%EFF.ORG@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Update on Pre-Clam Slam
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
              at Apr 9, 92 3:16 pm

> By the way, I also don't own a whip, but I really do need one as a prop for
> a play.  Anyone know a good place to buy a whip around Boston?

	They're cheapest if you can get them at a horse supplies
dealer.  I'll send you the info to order one from the cheapest place
I've ever found (State Line Tack in Plaistow NH).  A little bat will
cost ya about $3.50 plus s&h...


Czarina
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:36:00 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "815 Stephen H. Karlson 753-6980"
 <TA0SHK1%NIU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS

Frank of Brown spells his last name differently from the Yankee
general who single-handedly made Robert E. Lee look good for over
a year :-)

Steve Karlson
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 06:40:37 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> I gained more understanding of grammar in my two years of high school
> Latin than in any of my English classes but advanced grammar in
> college.

Ah... So it helped you to TALK ABOUT English grammar, not to use
English.

> Once I understood Latin grammar, a lot of things in English
> grammar made sense...which was good, because my junior high and high
> school English teachers had a tendency to pay more attention to the exact
> angle of the lines of a diagram and to how neat your notebook was than
> they did to making you *understand* what you were doing.

In what ways is understanding what you're doing with grammar useful?
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
     who shouldn't be playing devil's advocate right now because
     she's behind in e-mail and won't have much catch-up time right away
     (but who can't resist)
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:49:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: New Voices on the list

>I was willing to let the first insult go by...The Ronin thinks I'm not a team
>player? Pshaw! I love teams!
>
>And whazzis? I don't wear pants?
>
>-abh

As erotic as that image is, it's not the one we were going for.  It was your
opponent who showed up without his team or his pants.

However, if you would like a wrestling match without pants...

Chris "Lobstrosities can be so randy" Schmidt
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:13:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Technogeek Perhaps Saves The Day

Sayeth Frank Peters

> A WWII military issue Japanese katana.  An old friend of my fathers
> acquired it during the war under circumstances he was unwilling to
> discuss.  I found it in the back of an aluminum shed behind his
> house.  The scabbard and hilt show their wear but the blade is
> flawless.

> A touch more mobile than a claymore.

     A more than adequate weapon, even if it is a WWII issue.

> He sneaks into my office whenever I leave town on vacation or
> business.

     Definitely a scoundrel and a cur.  Have you considered baited traps?

> I've never been able to to get into foils.  I'm a hack and slash kind
> of guy.  Poking is for wusses.

     I also do better with a blade than a point.  When I was taking an
introductory course in fencing I was decimating my class (I was 6"
taller and very aggressive), so the instructor grinned and pulled out
two sabers and asked me if I would care to try a few touches.  I
picked up the weapon, did a few moves to get a feel, and lost to him
3-2.  Seems he was #3 in the country in saber at the time.  I still
prefer the saber to the foil and epee.

     However, I was thinking of using the foil more for whipping than
for poking, something it is well suited for, being more toy than
weapon.

The Ronin
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 23:00:50 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Judith Schrier <PRIMATE%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Swedish cake mix
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>>              Notice: The manufacturers are not responsible for the
>>              effects of [any?] cakes baked with this mix by motherly
>>           women active in international exchange of electronic mail.
Oh.

Well, that was before I got active in e-mail, and
the cake (was it Pepparkakor?) came out just fine.

And, while I'm here, I might as well say that I'm
right-handed (though I just learned Thursday evening
at the pre-clam function that I can manage chopsticks
with my left hand and a *lot* of concentration); and
that I have reasonably legible handwriting (and very
legible hand-printing, courtesy of my high school
engineering-drafting teacher).

love, judith
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: The Nashanul Akadame, agin
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:43:19 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <01GIVNDFSFZK002TLO@SUNYJCC.BITNET> BUHITELA%SUNYJCC.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU writes:
:I've heard the suggestion that American spelling, which has managed some
:minor modifications since the revolution, got frozen with the general
:dispersal of dictionaries.  At a time when an eighth grade education
:qualified one to teach public schools, the schoolmaster/marm in possession
:of such a sacred text had something to teach once everyone knew their
:multiplication tables.   Had the dispersal of dictionaries been held off
:another generation, perhaps American orthography at least would have become
:more phonetic, to the relief of millions.

They way I heard it, it was that old fraud Noah who tried to foist
phonetic spelling on the US public via his early dictionaries, but
most of his ridiculous innovations didn't catch on.  However the
few more noticable differences between UK & US spelling are the ones
that survived.

Graham
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:47:01 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Lenny and Quincy
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Didn't somebody ask recently where Lenny and Quincy were?  Apparently
they're still alive and well on HISTORY.  I was just browsing through
usenet and happened upon this:

> >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
> >Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 09:44:17 EDT
> >Sender:       History <HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET>
> >From:         Lenny Abbey <LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET>
> >Subject:      Re: A view from CYBERSPACE
>
> I think that those who insist on a "scholarly discussion" are either looking
> for a pulpit, or looking for endorsement of their own intellectuality, which
> they seriously doubt.
>
> Lenny <Erotic Ontologist>
> and
>
>       Quincy, Erotic
>
>            -, /|
>             O.O
>           =(___)=
>              U
>
>       Ontological Cat
>
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:31:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>                                    "processes" - preferred pronunciation
>                                                  "process-ees"
>Janet
>
>Correction - I no longer await that last one.  Surprise, surprise - it's
>             already made Webster's!  Excuse me, anyone who says it that
>             way.  I'll try to adjust my ears to judge less harshly on that
>             one, but I still don't get it.

I know that when I say "process-ees" I am referring to the number of
processes on my VAX.  When I say "process-es", I am referring to the
act of processing information--like "He processes tax forms" or
something like that.

BTW, when you say Webster's, do you mean a real Merriam-Webster or
one of those imitators that's taken advantage of a lost trademark?
I'd be surprised to a minor degree if it made the venerable M-W.
Then again, they do try awfully hard to keep up with the changing
language.  Next time I go home to Springfield I really would like to
go visit their plant and see if they have any job opportunities.

--Adam
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:27:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Aaron Dickey, The Happy Spore"
 <AXD7104%ACFCLUSTER.NYU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Goodbye
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

I've tried the freenet before, and couldn't stand it.  It's a moot point
anyway, since TELNET eats up my account allotment as much as anything
else does.

--Aaron
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:18:58 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Mark Susskind <NY911179%PACEVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      the Almighty Dollar and the Ronin (saints be praised!)

>The '$' is not almighty.  Rather the value it is used to measure and the
>desire to have it are the driving forces.

Almighty!  Can you not sense the irony?  Of course, you are not only a ronin,
but the Ronin, so I guess that you do not know the value of money! ;-)

Mark R. Susskind, Mr. MRS
<NY911179 @ PACEVM.BITNET>
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:04:17 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Descriptive and prescriptive
              9 Apr 1992 22:07:38 GMT from <haycock@MARLEY.THINK.COM>

there will remain some basic standard by which "good" english
>(written and spoken) is judged.  Good is subjectively defined -- but, I
>would not be honest if I said that I didn't make judgements based upon a
>person's ability to speak/write "good" english.
>
>//anne//

I agree 100%... thanks for your bravery in saying it.
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 12:40:08 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Understatement of the Year
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> In fact "countries in which my passport is not valid" itself sounds a
> bit bizarre.
>
> tushar

why? it says something almost exactly like that ON the passport.

Karen
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 11:57:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Jim Wright 858-8188 <JCWRIGH%CLEMSON.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: re : fresh meat

About adopting a sage's stance, you must realize that even the most
intelligent of thinkers must often succumb to base emotions and instinct
when they are rebuked or chided.  It is not your fault, and you must
just roll with the punches.
The Jimmer
From: gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: WORDS-L in Cambridge
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:13:17 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <9204131308.aa03012@Nova.TCS.Tufts.EDU> droby%NOVA.TCS.TUFTS.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU writes:
>I forgot to mention, Paul had the Kendall Chablis and pronounced it "not bad".

Really? I pronounce it /sha-bli:/ :-)

G
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:02:13 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Don Thornton <DTHORNTN%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: tarmac rugrats
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

.> forgot my brother.  Is it even possible to have an older brother without
.> being the victim of teasing?

.                            I will have to own up to teasing her,
.especially calling her 'Shorty' (she was about 5'6" at the time).  Of
.The Ronin

That makes me remember getting back at my brother's girlfriend when she
called me shorty (though I was as tall as she). Immediately I
started calling her Wilt. And it caught on and lasted even
among her friends.

Oh the power of a word.

Don
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:13:12 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         BGRISSOM%UKCC.UKY.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject: Re: That "Come Hither" Blank Stare

>      Hope the fact that there are so many librarians on the list doesn't mean
>that we need to "get a life".... or worse, have the least work to do

       Carol, please don't say things like this out loud!

      --brad
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:39:29 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Judith Schrier <PRIMATE%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (38
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

>There isn't really any difference to speak of between French
>and English. Or English and Norwegian and German. They're pretty much
>the same language. It's perfectly possible to read lots of French
>without knowing a word of French. Thai or Russian is a different
>matter - they're not quite the same as English.
True. But you can read Russian without learning it, too,
as long as you have learned the *alphabet*.

Matter of fact, you can read (or understand) *any* language,
as long as you already know what the person is saying. A waiter
in a hotel in Kenya walks up to you with a tray carrying cups of
tea, and says, "Xxxxxx xxxxx xx xxx Chai, Mama?" and you can
confidently say, "Thank you, I already had some tea."

Also instructions on packages of Swedish cake mix...

judith
From: haycock@marley.think.com (Anne Haycock)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Subject: Re: List Moved: WORDS-L English Language Discussion G
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:42:21
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: marley.think.com
In-reply-to: Joan Boorstein's message of Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:56:00 EDT

Joan requests:

   HHECLWH@HKUCC.BITNET asks in a message likely (as Steve observed) intended
   for the listserv

   >Dear sir,

   >I intend to subscribe to this group. Could you help me?

   >Joseph LAU

   Natalie,
       As Words-L listowner, I hope you'll subscribe Joseph.  HKUCC is the
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   University of Hong Kong and this dot would be a great addition to the 'map'
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   on the next T-shirt.


Ah, true Words-l selflessness.  I begin to feel redundant -- Beantown
denizen -- too many others on *my* dot.

//anne//
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:43:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Captain CAAAAAAVEMAN!!!!! <ARHODES%DREW.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fitting in

In article <tfilt198194@drew.edu>, Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE@drew.drew.edu> wri
   tes:
> But now I'm just a lowly history major who has too much work to be
> logged in as often as I am.  Guess I'll have to join the college kid
> clique.  Aimee, Aaron, Alec, Adam..funny how our names all start with
> A.  Does that mean anything?
>
> --Adam
>
        Hey!  You forgot me!

                          |_
                          Oo\ Alex '<---- notice the A' Rhodes
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:32:56 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: student rebellion (was sad thought)
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Tue, 14 Apr 1992, The Ronin wrote:
>
>      Further, by the administration giving the students a relatively
> harmless target for their rebellion (the dress code), perhaps some of
> the students won't vent their rebellion in more serious venues (like
> drugs).  That was my mother's professed tactic.  It doesn't account
> for why I drove a Chevy through a police barricade, though.  I must
> have had a little more rebellion in me than she thought.
>
A Chevy through a police barricade?  This sounds like an interesting
story...how old were you?
ndh
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:37:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Aaron Dickey, The Happy Spore"
 <AXD7104%NYUACF.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fitting in

I *WISH* I were an editor.  Does that make me a hopeless case?

--Aaron
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU