From: CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L000)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Burn, GURPS, BURN!
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:36:05 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <2292@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <21JAN93.13193659.0105@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CX6L) writes:

> And THAT is dead wrong for the genre. Especially the superheroes
>in the classic setting. Bombs go off, bullets fly, bystanders are HURT,
>but even bystanders generally don't DIE. Hell, if you are "realistic"
>with superhero combats, those brawls that wreck multiple city
>blocks should rack up four-digit death tolls. They don't.

Maybe I am biased: in my games, they *do*. For that matter, in my
super"hero" games, there are none of these morally-driven nice-guy
"heroes": just metahumanly powerful beings who *occasionally* do a
good deed. If you adopt a realistic outlook on the effects of super
stuff on real-life, then a realistic game can hack it. Comics belong
there: in the comics. Not too much fun to game, IMNSHO.

> Meaningful and well thought out? What is this, soc.philosophy?
>Go eat a GURPS worldbook! This is ADVOCACY, you dweeb!

Even here, there is an art to the well-crafted dig. Even in a brawl
of words, a bit of finesse can do wonders to make the onlookers feel
like the flame post was at least worth reading :)

Sea Wasp's groovy tune . . .
> "Roll 3d6. Compare to skill. You want low."
> "Roll 3d6. Compare to skill. You want low."
> "Roll 3d6. Compare to skill. You want low."
> "Roll 3d6. Compare to skill. You want low."

Where's the problem? Do you really feel the sidedness, and number
of dice, and whether you shoot low or high, is relevent to the fun
you can have playing a game, the flavour of a GM's world, or the
quality of the game? Gads! You're a worse case than I thought!

> Yes, they can. Because, as you just pointed out, IN MOST GAME
>CIRCUMSTANCES, THE STRENGTH WON'T MATTER in that hi-tech universe. So
>why SHOULDN'T a player be able to get his combat machine a high ST
>easily -- so that the character can do those little things he's supposed
>to be able to do and adheres to the character concept -- when, BY YOUR
>OWN EXAMPLE, it won't unbalance the game?

ST has more uses than in combat, though. Giving a character limitless
endurance, the load-bearing capacity of an elephant, the ability to
rip obstacles apart bare-handed et al. is giving the character a lot
of power. It manifests itself in a more direct, crude and artless
fashion, but it cannot be discounted. My example indicated that if
you just take ST for *combat* purposes, and expect it to be relevent
in a high-tech setting for those merits alone, then you're screwed.
My comments above indicate why ST is *really* useful.

> In other words, if in most game circumstances there's no effective
>difference between Ahnold Schwartzenegger's Commando and a commando with
>all the same skills, but just an average or slightly higher ST, why
>demand such mondo costs?

In most circumstances, there *is* a difference. The Arnie clone can
fire machineguns and miniguns from the hip, kick in armoured doors
with regularity, carry twice the death-dealing hardware of his
smaller friend and still move fast, and excel in HTH combat, should
it arise in the course of the adventure. If you just make a high ST
character as a thug, and have him walking around acting like a goon,
then, yes, you've paid too much for the ST: because **you** are not
capitalizing on its strong points (pardon the pun).

> No, I blame GURPS for not allowing the concept to EXIST without
>all sorts of extra points. Points which most GURPS players appear to
>go into cardiac arrest rather than allow. To be fair, most point based
>game players seem to have the same problem -- that is, one or two points
>difference start causing them to see spots in front of their eyes, and
>anything more than that causes cardiac arrest.

In my game, if you want to be excessively good at anything, you use
the points I hand out, and make sacrifices: just like anyone else.
There is no "high-ST PC slush fund". Why should high ST get special
consideration over high DX, IQ or HT? In my games, a 13 to 14 ST is
considered awsomely strong, and humans rarely see the likes of 16+
ST, ever. I see reality this way, and that's how I run my game.

> I'd love to. Never saw a group of pointmongers who would even
>come CLOSE to that. Hell, convincing them to waver five or ten points
>in a 250 point game requires severe and unending torture with hot branding
>irons.

Don't blame me, or GURPS. My players wouldn't care. Hell, I have 275,
350, 400, 450, and 550 point characters in my present game, and no one
bitches. Blame your gamer friends for this one.

-Kromm

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