HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 15 Nov 1992 16:01:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu



Tom>>  Jess's approach and mine differ in whether a distinction is made
Tom>>  on the basis of action or desire.

Jess>  This, as I've noted elsewhere, is a mischaracterization of what I said.

So far, Jess, you haven't really said anything. You set out one position 
rhetorically, then backed away from it, then came up with a tapestry of 
autochthonous impulses and mental and/or emotional constructs, which, 
pending specifics, is mumbo-jumbo.

Tom>>  Bigotry is merely cowardice in the face of complexity.

Jess>  More than that (not merely that), I would say.

Awww, Jess, you fell into your own trap. Outrageous oversimplification 
is a rhetorical device, "a more or less standard (and transparent) way to 
draw people out, to elicit what others think". But once more you've 
suggested that your own position has broader dimensions, without stating 
any specifics at all.

Isn't rhetoric wonderful?

-----

Tom Flesher  (internet: ai888@cleveland.freenet.edu)

>>> Bigotry is merely cowardice in the face of complexity. <<<
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:18:48 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov16.014831.25069@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>Could someone provide me with a recent example of this, like say a
>direct quote or a reference to an article I'm likely to remember?

Well, it's occurred in the distant past, and some people have long
memories.  Two people commenting on good looking bears constitutes an
annoying excess, three, an organized conspiracy.  Add one to each of
these for twink slobbering, including this Mark dude.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mut@aber.ac.uk (Michael O Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:43:17 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <BxntyC.LAI@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning) writes:
>In <mattm-121192133042@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>certainly changed my mind.  Though I hated the movie (to be
>>honest, I didn't even finish it...), I though Reeves was
>>positively *yummy* in Private Idaho.  Of course, so was
>>Phoenix.  
>
>>To *die* for...
>
>Phoenix is ALWAYS *POSITIVELY* *YUMMY*!!

   In the new Kenneth Brannaugh film "Peters Friends" Peter, the bisexual,
celibate lead character, is explaining his sexual status to an old female
friend who has just sexually propositioned him;

   "I assure you if this wasn't the case, you'd be right up there on my
wish list, along with Michelle Phieffer (sp?) and Rivers Phoenix".

   Btw this film was great, it comes out in America sometime in December
and you should all go and see it.

Mike.
(Doing his bit for the failing British film industry).
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:18:58 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:

>GDM: Well, not quite. He's an ugly white boy who thinks he's black and
>does rap music to prove it.....  *UGH*.
>
>me: I find your statement above to be fairly racist and worthy of calling to
>your attention.  Surely you did not mean it to sound as it reads?
>
>I don't see a glimmer of racism in George's statement.  Would Flying
>Squirrel or someone else who finds the comment racist please explain
>howso.

I originally read as an *UGH* to someone who is not black but was trying
to be by rapping, as though trying to be black was a disgusting thing.
George has since explained that the *UGH* was in reference to how ugly
he finds Marky Mark's face.  Hence, I gave him the benefit of the doubt
since he (GDM) never struck me as racist.  
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

"In America, we can't even get corruption right."  - my CFII.
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:24:43 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>Steve Dyer writes:

>>body.  This what-his-name is simply a media creation exploiting a
>>legitimate art for by co-opting it for the white masses, or in other
>>words, doing just what he used to do as a member of NKOTB.  I mean, why
>>isn't he treated with the same dismissiveness as Vanilla Ice was?  I

This is disturbing. Is 'White rapper' an oxymoron? (and NKOTB
was hardly 'exploiting a black art' anyway, unless the boundaries
for 'black territory' encompassed a lot more than I'd thought...)

>Nail. Head. Bang!

Tired, tired, tired...

>>>On the other hand, considering how anti-anything-but-bears you've
>>>established yourself to be, perhaps you mean what you wrote in a
>>>most offensive way.  I'll hope not and look for a clarification.
>>
>>Given the collective drooling we've had to put up with over this guy,
>>I think George's comments were quite apt and timely.

How often do people other than George flame other people for talking
about aesthetics?

>Thank you.  I find it interesting that when the Bears are
>discussing what they find attractive in this forum, we get the
>cries of "Oh no, all that Bear crap again!"  But when it's an
>ugly little fuck like "Marky Mark" being drooled over, HEAVEN 
>FORFEND that anyone should disagree in a similarly sharp fashion.

Like Melinda said, it's more like 'Oh no, all that Furr crap again'.
And it's because of crap like this. You simply can't talk about
what you find attractive without telling people that they should be
ashamed of themselves for liking anything other than your ideal. It's
sickening, and I really wish you would accept the fact that some
people have different tastes than you do and just shut the fuck up
and let people think the way they want to.

>Now, I imagine someone's about to pounce on me for calling
>"Marky Mark" an "ugly little fuck."  Well, even those who do
>drool over him have admitted his face isn't much to look at, and

Why the negative spin on drooling?

>to *ME*, the face (most preferably with a beard or other
>significant facial hair, if it's a male) is the first thing I 
>notice, and probably the most important factor in physical
>attraction for me.

But to hear you talk, if he wasn't positively matted with fur he
might as well look like the elephant man, and you'd never be able
to love him. Sad.

>I'm not surprised he has such a ridiculous 
>moniker; to paraphrase a favorite Crotoni greeting, he had to
>make up his own name 'cause he was too ugly for his parents to
>claim.

'Zat so, FURR?

John, who thought Marky Mark was a poor choice for the ads (he
*does* have a really bad face for modeling), but still he's not
half as bad as Hammer...

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: bear vs. twink
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:37:27 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Jeff Norris (norris@infonode.ingr.com) wrote:
 
> When I visited Portland last week, I had to ask Mark how I would know him 
> in a crowded restaurant.  It occured to me then how I have become acquainted
> with so many of you with very little idea of how you look....
 
It's a strange phenomenon.  I seem not to worry about
the appearance--*actual* physical looks--of e-friends,
nor try to visualize or imagine.  But, I do find that
people who write here, and correspondants, do have an
appearance for me on the screen that I learn to recognize
and welcome.

Maybe it's in part their headers [changing news readers
was hell], maybe their addresses, the way they format
their paragraphs, or the shape and texture of their
writing.  I don't really know.  [Perhaps it's similar
to the way that the scores of composers, who have their
own sound, also tend to have an identifiable *look*.]

Anyway, when I finally meet someone, there's usually not
much surprise, because there's not too much in the way
of visual expectation.  With one exception: height.  I've
had this funny feeling on several occasions that people
have been shorter than they write.  Sometimes.

I don't know whether I write as tall as I am.

> -jeff [who has never described his appearance to this group, but wonders
>        how others imagine him. (careful, I have a fragile ego)]

Thank goodness we're not fishing for compliments.

I can't quite answer the question, since I've viewed
the goods [or, as it were, more like *half* the goods],
which has spoiled my _ab initio_ imagining of your
appearance.  However, it's opened up the possibility
of imagining you in, ahem, several different ways.

I think I'll let 'yummy' sum up my feelings.

As a hint for readers who are enticed but have limited
travel budgets: long-distance telephone is reasonably
economical, and Jeff's is a voice to *die* for.  Be
prepared for meltdown.

So there.

[No, I don't intend to ask whether I look the way I write.]

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:21:30 GMT

In article <18NOV92.19074532@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>Sim, trying to think if there is a cheese that would go well with
>mangoes.

Yes, there is.  I've spent many a happy hour with Fruitbat, meeping
gently and feeding each other with mangoes and Emmental.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:05:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov17.000530.29451
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <102165@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>au.toch.tho.nous \o.-'ta:k-th*-n*s\ \-ne-\ aj : INDIGENOUS, NATIVE

In article <1992Nov16.193007.28411@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>autochthonous  adj
>   syn    NATIVE 2, aboriginal, endemic, indigenous
>   con    alien, extraneous, extrinsic, foreign; imported, introduced
>   ant    naturalized

damn, and here I'd parsed "autochthonous" as

    auto-chthonous

which any student of obscure words will recognize as being a bizarre
way to say "self-destructive". Maybe I should give my queer wordsmith
card a rest for a few days..

ObMotss - after learning the word "chthonian" (from what source, I am
ashamed to admit), I did my damndest to use it in an English paper.
And I finally got the chance, in 10th grade, writing some silly
exposition. My teacher never even remarked on it, just let it go right
by. ARGH! Anyway, he was 45, never married, ...
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Finger nelson@reed.edu for my public key
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: colorado springs
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:16:04 GMT
Organization: NIST

In article <GANDALF.92Nov13103306@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>
gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:

>   Last night, CNN Headline News reported that a student in Colorado Springs
>   (it didn't say what grade level but it definitely didn't sound like college)
>   was sent home to change his shirt after arriving for school in a Penguin
>   (from Batman Returns) t-shirt. It seems that the principal said that the 
>   shirt was unacceptable because it is "satanic."

Danny DeVito has sent the boy boxes and boxes full of Batman shirts
and memorabilia to share with all his friends.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu

Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Anti-Leftist Epithets (was Re: A Strand of Bigotry)
Date: 22 Nov 92 04:25:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov22.042506.22529
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov22.014158.25303@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>My suggestion: Henceforth we should talk about people who want to
>turn soc.motss into a "fascist Faerie".

Dearest, why don't you just say what you mean? Why stop with a wimpy
homophobic epithet, when you can use some truly nasty one like
"fascist faggot", or "dirty queer" "man-hating feminazi" or "AIDS fag"?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Finger nelson@reed.edu for my public key
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Surly French waiters
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:43:20 GMT

michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane) writes:
>>> Ok, Matthew, what about that surly waiter you had??
>>He was French.
>need he say more?

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>(you are correct, however, about it being *your* fault the Frenchman
>exhibited his natural inclinations towards French-ness...)

So Frenchmen are naturally surly, are they?  Well I suppose it might
seem that way to Americans, stupid and vulgar as they are.

,
Eamonn
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:35:45 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov15.202552.4778@quantime.co.uk> <1992Nov16.015234.25645@reed.edu>
  <1e726dINNcnn@mizar.usc.edu> <mattm-161192093800@mcmelmon.apple.com>
  <Bxtz9A.CM4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> <mattm-161192155215@mcmelmon.apple.com>

Matthew Melmon finds out where some of us were on Saturday Night in
the 70s:

>In article <Bxtz9A.CM4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cssam@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Scott
>Minor) wrote:

>> Ummm, pardon me, but I believe it was the devine Gilda Radner as
>> Babawa Wawa and guest star Madeleine Kahn (pardon the spelling) as
   ^^^^^^
   Baba

>>Mawena Deetweek.  I pretty sure about this, but it's possible I'm
>>mistaken.

>Are you sure?  Isn't Tomlin the one who did the operator (One wingy
>dingy...  Two wingy dingy...)  I thought she was Babawa Wawa.  But,
                                                  ^^^^^^
                                                   Baba

>if not, I shall amend the statement:

>  As per Gilda Radner's fabu spoof...

>*X*

>(Who was Rosanne Rosannadanna?  I thought that was Gilda...)

Same person, different wig.

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:13:59 GMT

In article <thaaang.722047060@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>Oh.  Is there a queue forming?  :-)
>Yeah. I wanna sit on Greg's face too.

What, and miss those sparkling eyes?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Ins and Outs
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:31:33 GMT


In article <1992Nov17.205756.22281@infonode.ingr.com>
norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:

>>My gaydar hasn't been calibrated recently, but the level
>>reads pretty high on Mr. Stephanopouplos.  On the other
>>hand, it didn't go blip on Pete Williams, so go figure.

>Jess dear, it's not your gaydar level that's going up on Mr. S.
>(this might also explain the lack of blip on Mr. W.)

Trust me, Jeff, it's the gaydar.  You'll know more about
this soon enough. :-)

<> It makes no difference who you vote for -- the two parties are
<> really one party representing four percent of the people.
<> -- Gore Vidal
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Followup-To: soc.motss
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<BOB.92Nov13132948@dolores.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Nov15.034951.4217@macc.wisc.edu>
	<mattm-151192111359@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:16:08 GMT

In article <mattm-151192111359@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

   > Is it anyone's responsibility?  If so, whose?  If not,
   > why not?

   In the theater arts, I place the responsibility for change on those
   artists who want to be 'different.'  If they are compelling in 
   their performances, then audiences will - over time - accept 
   the new 'style.'  

If their professional trainers are prejudiced against them, they will
never get a chance to go before an audience, and thus will not be
given the chance to crate change.  

   Significantly, 'gay' theater *is* developing - somewhere else the
   play "Angels in America" was mentioned.  

The first play with a gay character (a lesbian) performed in this
country was perfomed at the turn of the century in the Yiddish
Theater.  In the late 1920's (I think, my reference for this is at
home), New York state passed a descency law that forbad portraying
gays and lesbians in any theatrical role.  This law remained in effect
until the late 1950's/1960's, when it was repealed.  This law had
significant impact on the performance/writing of many plays, including
"The Children's Hour".  Slowly, with time and plays like "The Boys in
the Band", "La Cage au Folles", and "Torch Song Trilogy" (among many
others), gays and lesbians are once again being portrayed on stage.

There have always been gays and lesbians in the theater.  Society has
tried, and at times succeeded, in prohibiting any visible recognition
of a gay/lesbian community and culture.  Your argument is that
familiarity causes change.  Certainly the acting profession is not
unfamiliar with gays and lesbians.  If society or institutions create
roadblocks to a person's chance for success, familiarity may never
happen and change will never happen.

   When talented homosexual artists have made enough marks, the
   perceptions of society will change.  But it is not incumbent upon
   society to make those changes; nor upon 'institutions.'  It is
   incumbent upon the artists who feel so strongly that society 
   *should* change.

The institution of Carnegie Mellon University does have a
nondiscrimination policy.  As such, they guarantee students that they
will be treated equally regardless of their sexual orientation.  This
policy applies to the department of drama.

Scott
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: Military ban etc.
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:46:43 GMT


In a previous article, entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one) says:

>I keep seeing articles by phobes trying to get Clinton to not lift the
>military ban, as well as claims that the congress would not go along.

Whether the congress goes along or not is irrelevant.  The President's
word, reguarding the military, is law.  For example, if the President
decided, as commander-in-chief, to declare that from this point foreword
all GI's would be required once a week to dress up in midevil armor and
stand on the street singing broadway tunes, the congress may find it silly,
and protest it loudly, but they could do nothing about it, and those chosing
to remain in uniform would, in fact, be required by law to do so, or risk the
posibility of being disiplined for refusing to follow the lawful orders of
a superior officer. 


>If infact the congress refuses to go along that means that a number of
>democrats will have to go along with the phobes. 

True.

>
>Rather than just voting for no one in the next election maybe it is
>time to start running queer candidates where there is no viable democratic
>or republican option. If the queer candidate gets 10% of the vote (enough
>to change the result of virtually any race) congress critters will have
>to start taking us more seriously.
>

I believe we ARE being taken seriously...Clinton's promises are evidence of 
it.

>If Clinton himself goes back on it I will change my registration to republican
>so I can vote for Weld in the republican primaries. He is more pro gay rights
>than most democrats.
>

I don't believe Clinton will renig.  The phobes couldn't possibly hate him
any more for enacting the promise then they are for him making it in the 
first place.  However, he may delay it, in the interest of a smooth 
transition in the military policy, by consulting with the joint chiefs, and
informing them that this IS going to happen, and they can do one of two thing 
about it:

	They can work in their official capasity to make it as easy as 
	possible, or

	They can get the hell out.

Believe me, If Clinton takes too long (over, perhaps, 6 months), we'll let
him know....


-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist  //   No God, Know Peace   /\     * 
*                    Kelley L. Miller  //  Know God, No Peace    /P \    *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu  //                        /____\   *
*****************  James Trafficant for US Senate, 1998  *****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: More Stromer Bullshit
Organization: Stanford University
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:39:05

In article <1992Nov23.133940.22560@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu
(Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes: 

   More evidence to ignore him from soc.culture.african.american:

   [some idiot's drivel deleted]

What the hell is going on here?  The idiots who naturally tend to
infest soc.motss aren't enough?  Why are people *importing* garbage to
soc.motss?

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gayfolk and cats
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 10:58:52 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov19.023412.26766@netcom.com><1992Nov19.192525.1041@dunix.drake.edu>
  <GANDALF.92Nov20150437@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>

Thomas M. Farrell writes:
>The Dark Kitty writes:
>   No I think cats are more popular because dogs are dumber than a red
>   brick.  I'll have to dig out an issue of Cat Fancy where they reported
>
>What kind of dogs have you been associating with? My last dog (a border collie,
>who, tragically, died two years ago) was almost universally heralded by all who
>met him as being the smartest non-human animal they had ever seen. He

I think you've hit on a key point.  "Show dogs" and the
over-inbred "pure" breeds tend, in my experience, to be MORONS.

WORKING dogs, like border collies, tend to be quite bright. I used
to have a dog that was a border collie/cocker spaniel mix, and she
was *BRIGHT*, with an incredible instinct for herding [my parents
used to own a ranch.]  If you said "get those cows through that
gate," she'd do it -- then come back to you, not continue to
pester the cows for the fun of it.

And I'm a Cat Person myself.... ;-)

 
() Only the lead dog gets a change of scenery.
()      -- Law of the Yukon
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss