HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rees@dabo.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees)
Subject: Re: Strange packaging technique
Reply-To: Jim.Rees@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan IFS Project
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:58:55 GMT

In article <BtzApG.1o1@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, gordon@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Gordon R. Strachan) writes:

  The one I always like is the packing lists that list everything in the box
  including the packing list itself!  It even has its own HP part number.  HP
  paper work, you gotta love it! :-)

When I got my rs/6000 (great machine, wish they'd port Unix to it), it came
with a while stack of boxes containing things like a neat blue folder for
storing loopback connectors.  When you're done unpacking you have a sea of
empty boxes.  But the last box needs no unpacking; they ship an empty box in
which to store all the other packing material.

  Does anybody still have that old "story" about ordering lunch in the HP
  cafateria?  It was around about 2 years and I lost my copy.

You can get a copy of "Lunch, the HP Way," by Stephen Harrison and Noel
Magee, by ftp from archive.umich.edu in the 'apollo' subdirectory, file
'food-humor'.  The same file also contains "The Real World and Unix
Philosophy," by Bob Peirce.

Here's an excerpt from "Lunch."  The whole thing is pretty funny.

  My eyes glazed over. I asked for a burger and a root beer.
  The waitress looked at me like I was an alien.

  "How would you like to order that, sir?"
  "Quickly, if possible. Can't I just order a sandwich and a drink?"
  "No sir. All our service here is menu driven. Now what would you like?"
  I scanned the menu. "How big is the 00010 burger?"
  "The patty is rated at eight bites."
  "Well, how about the rest of it?"
  "I don't have the specs on that, sir, but I think it's a bit more."
  "Eight bites is too small. Give me the Double Burger Upgrade."

  My sales rep interrupted. "No, you want the Single Burger option 002
  'expands burger to two patties'. The Double Burger Upgrade would give
  you two burgers.

  "But you could get return credit on the extra bun," the waitress
  chimed in, trying to be helpful, "although it isn't documented."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
From: lbplum@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lars Plum )
Subject: memory for DN3500
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 22:56:15 GMT

Does anybody out there have any memory cards for the DN3500 they would be willing to sell to me.


please respond by e-mail.

Thanks lars
From: wjw@ebh.eb.ele.tue.nl (Willem Jan Withagen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: traceroute?
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:20:59 GMT
Reply-To: wjw@eb.ele.tue.nl
Organization: Digital Systems, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <1992Aug31.134402.1@vxcrna.cern.ch>, roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch writes:
=> Has anybody ported "traceroute" to Domain?  The standard BSD code
=> on the net requires kernel mods to get the special info.
=> Theoretically, this should be much easier (and safer) on Apollos,
=> since IP is done in a user-level daemon.  Getting the tcpd docs,
=> though, might be a toughie.

I do like the standard reply

Yes, we did. (Not me, but Frank Volf (volf@eb.ele.tue.nl) whether he
ported it, or just compiled it, I don't know. But feel free to ask him.

If it's only the executable you want:
	ftp.eb.ele.tue.nl:/pub/apollo/local/etc/traceroute

And don't forget to make it suid. (I don't think we entered any dark
code into it. :-) But it requires to get at/to the interface. )

	Willem Jan

-- 
Digital Information Systems Group, Room EH 10.35 
Eindhoven University of Technology   
P.O. 513                     		Tel: +31-40-473401,Fax: +31-40-448375
5600 MB Eindhoven            		The Netherlands
Internet:  wjw@eb.ele.tue.nl    
X400:      C=nl;ADMD=400net;PRMD=surf;O=tue;OU=ele;OU=eb;S=WJW;
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
From: rees@pisa.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees)
Subject: Re: GNU Emacs for 18.58 and SR10.3/4 (at long last)
Reply-To: Jim.Rees@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan IFS Project
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:25:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.152417.24345@ttsi.lonestar.org>, mse@ttsi.lonestar.org (Mark Evans) writes:

  In article <1992Aug21.230108.7154@lucid.com> lnz@lucid.com (Leonard N. Zubkoff) writes:
  >A new version of my modifications to GNU Emacs for the Apollo is now available.
  
  Has anyone duplicated this feat for epoch 4.x?

It's not necessary.  I collected together the necessary parts and sent them
to the Epoch people.  Full support for Domain/OS is in Epoch 4.1.  This is
much easier than emacs, since epoch doesn't do gpr.  Most of the mods were
removing old, obsolete sr9.7 support.

There may still be a problem with unexapollo.c and sr10.4.  If someone will
send me the correct version, I'll pass it on to the Epoch people.  I don't
use sr10.4 myself.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
From: roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch
Subject: Re: traceroute?
Organization: CERN -- European Organization for Nuclear Research
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:13:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.134402.1@vxcrna.cern.ch>, roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch writes:
> Has anybody ported "traceroute" to Domain?  The standard BSD code
> on the net requires kernel mods to get the special info.
> Theoretically, this should be much easier (and safer) on Apollos,
> since IP is done in a user-level daemon.  Getting the tcpd docs,
> though, might be a toughie.

It's been pointed out that Apollos already have the (equivalent to the)
kernel mods in already, so traceroute should compile "out of the box."
Boy do I feel foolish.  I'd cancel the previous article, but just today
our news administrator deleted the "control" newsgroup.  I hate mondays.

Thanks for the help.
-- 
Frederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research
e-mail: roeber@cern.ch or roeber@caltech.edu | work: +41 22 767 31 80
r-mail: CERN/PPE, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland | home: +33 50 42 19 44
From: root@Ingres.COM (Operator)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Test, please ignore.
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:44:05 GMT
Reply-To: root@Ingres.COM (Operator)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

Apologies for not posting to a test group, I am showing someone how to use Pnews.
From: bonnetf@APO.ESIEE.FR (Frank Bonnet)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: NeXTstep on 700 machines ???
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:06:08 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Hi,

There are more and more persistent rumors here in France about a future 
release of NeXTstep running on the HP700's series ... 

If there are some HP guys reading this, could they please answer if it is 
.true. or .false. ?  

Thanks.                                    

+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| bonnetf@apo.esiee.fr                     |                                   |
| Frank Bonnet                             | Surfing ...                       |
| E.S.I.E.E                                |                                   |
| BP99 93162 Noisy le Grand cedex.FRANCE.  | the rest is details !             |
| Fax   : 33 1 45 92 66 99                 |                                   |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: Idle nodes? (was Re: automatic screen turn-off)
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:43:12 GMT
Organization: Motorola, LICD, SPS, Mesa, AZ

In article <BtwMGy.EG0@apollo.hp.com> ganek@apollo.hp.com (Dan Ganek) writes:
>    PROCEDURE gpr_$video_ctl()
>  
>This replaced smd_$video_ctl.

Is there any call to let user find out no keyboard/mouse event has happened
during a specific time?  If such a call is available I can modify a screen
lock program to automatically lock a screen when the node has idled for some
time.
From: rpage@bigbrother.matrox.com (Real Page)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: WANTED: DN10000 Power supply (or full system :)
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:59:19 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

We have a suicidal DN10000, we try everything that was posted here during 
the last weeks, (change capacitors, clean contact, etc.) to no 
working solution, MTBF: 5minutes :-(

I wish I could just put it in a museum but we have some Mentor software
running on it with no maintenance.... So I have to keep this DN10000 
up and running.

We called HP to get a replacment, they asked a DNwhat?  We called a few
place to get a power supply, but nobody calls back :-(

Does any of you could give me a solution:
- Sell us a Power Supply.
- Sell us a DN10000.
- Give us a way to repair the power supply.
- Sell us a Board Station Licence on SparcStation.
- Give me address of place that might have one of the 3 above (for 
  the license, I know that Mentor will be glad to take many $$ for one).

I will post a summary of the answer and the solution (if available).

Thanks,
--
+-----------+---------------------+----------------------+-------------+
| Real Page | (514)685-7230 #2359 | (514)685-7030 Fax    | Vaux mieux  |
| Administrateur des Systemes     | root@matrox.com      | jamais que  |
| Systemes Electroniques Matrox   | Real.Page@matrox.com | d'avoir tort!
+---------------------------------+----------------------+-------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo,comp.sys.hp
From: roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch
Subject: Re: Strange packaging technique
Organization: CERN -- European Organization for Nuclear Research
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:08:44 GMT

> The one I always like is the packing lists that list everything in the box
> including the packing list itself!  It even has its own HP part number.  HP
> paper work, you gotta love it! :-)

I'd like to know if all of their packing lists list themselves.  Does
anybody have the part number for the packing list which lists all
packing lists which do not list themselves?  ;-)

-- 
Frederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research
e-mail: roeber@cern.ch or roeber@caltech.edu | work: +41 22 767 31 80
From: davidy@HWCAE.AZ.HONEYWELL.COM (David Young -davidy K26E2 x2968)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Problems after I have installed Domain OS
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:18:04 GMT
Organization: The Internet


** cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!root@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Operator) on 26 Aug 92 18:30:23 GMT
** in [Problems after I have installed Domain OS] writes:

Operator> I have the following problem. I have just installed DomainOS on a
Operator> second Apollo 400 m/c and , using the other 400 as a master, am trying
Operator> to update the registry that there is a new node on the network. The
Operator> install guide says to type the following:

Operator> /etc/ctnode coley 4e593 -l -r -root

Operator> where coley is the new node name.

Operator> The above gives me the  following error:

Operator> Unable to update replicated root;local cache not updated - transmit failed (OS/network)

Sounds like your a little "green" :-)

Don't confuse the registry with Apollo's naming service.  The registry
is used ONLY for user login account information.

When you use the '-root' switch on ctnode, it is adding an entry to
the NS_HELPER database (apollo's name server).  Generally you use the
ns_helper in large networks or when you decide to create DDS internets
(not be confused with TCP/IP internets, which are different).

If you are only have two nodes, I'd use the command:

   /etc/ctnode -update -all

(this assumes that you are using the default NETID of zero too) and be
done with it. 

Otherwise, to successfully use the command you issued, you must start
the ns_helper on one or more of the nodes, and initialize it.  See the
help file on 'ns_helper', and the 'edns' command that is used to modify
the ns_helper database.

--
David J. Young                      Honeywell -- Air Transport Systems Division
Phone: 602.436.2968              P.O. Box 21111 M/S AZ75-K26E2 Phoenix AZ 85036
davidy@hwcae.honeywell.com                    uunet!asuvax!apciphx!hwcae!davidy
AMA   AMUG  APDA  BMWCCA  Golfer  Private Pilot  Scuba-Diver  and more....
Do you know Kimball?  EQ Kimball, the insurance man?
From: hbo@netcom.com (Howard Owen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: New DN3000 Owner Seeks Help
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:10:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.f5fn66m.hbo
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


    I bought the machine Michelle advertised here, a DN3000 running
Domain 10.2. Michelle got the machine from a former employer sans
manuals, OS tapes or root password. The former admin of the machine
supplied a list of six possible passwords, none of which seem to work.
Could some kind soul out there help me to hack root on my new machine?

Specific questions: 

     1: What's the story on a standalone domain machine
        that may have been attached to a network previously? The login
        procedure pauses, then reports it is trying the local domain, then
        rejects my password. Do I need to use root,0,0 for the user?

     2: Failing a successful hack of the root password, how do you go about 
        booting domain in single user mode?

     3: Does anyone out there have domain OS 10.4 (latest rev?) tapes
	and/or manuals they'd be willing to sell me cheep?

   Thanks for your attention. I swear I'm one of the good guys. I'll let
you talk to my mother if you don't beleive me. 8)


-- 
-- 
Howard Owen, Sys Admin		           internet:              hbo@octel.com
Octel Communications Corporation           BITNET:            HBO@VOODOO.BITNET
890 Tasman Dr MS 05-04 Milpitas CA 95035   DECNET Internet:          45180::HBO
"I am not a pay TV service!"               Telephone:       408-321-6576 (work)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
From: olip0931@mailszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Christian Paschereit)
Subject: searching pcnfsd for 68k and 88k
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:54:52 GMT

I am looking for a compiled version of the pcnfsd for
the 68k and 88k machines. I can not compile the 
the source code supplied by PCTCP because of missing
libraries.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Oliver Paschereit
oliver@dn10000.pi.tu-berlin.de
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 1992 03:56:35 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: Re: Which processor?
Reply-To: blarson@usc.edu
From: blarson@blars.UUCP

What about the 68008, 68012, (non-motorola) 68070, the 683xx series, etc?

(It probably is imposibly to tell purly in software between the 68010
and the 68012, since I think the only difference is the number of pins
wired to the package.)

-- 
blarson@usc.edu			usc!blarson			blarson@zog
		C news and rn for os9/68k!
I think I hear a scream.  A great many dramatic situations begin with a scream.
							-- Barbarella
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
From: rfhughes@crchh444.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bob Hughes)
Subject: MC68HC11EVBU kit
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:43:09 GMT


My brother is looking for the MC68HC11EVBU kit for a college class.  Does anyone out
there in motorola land know how to get a hold of this?  His class only received
20% of the kits needed and this is impacting the content of the class.  Thanks
ahead of time for any help.

Bob Hughes - Slowburn
From: idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: Which processor?
Summary: determining the processor
Keywords: processor, cache
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:38:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdxgate.6040
Organization: /etc/organization

How does one go about detmining what processor you are running on?  On my
machine type only 68000, '010, '020, '030, and '040 are available and I need
to be able to know which I'm running on.  I also need to know how to shut off
the caches on the before mentioned processors.  I've though about using an
illegal instruction trap, but I'm sure there has to be a more elegent method.
If there's a FAQ for this, sorry, but point me in its direction. :)

                                  - Ian Romanick
                                    Dancing Fool of Epsilon

[]--------------------------------------------------------------------[]
 |                                                                    |
 | My opinions are exactly the same as PSU's.  NOT!                     |
 | Mail at:  idr@cs.pdx.edu             Epsilon, for the best in NTS  C |
 |                                      demos! :^)                      |
 |                                                                    |
[]--------------------------------------------------------------------[]
From: crs@crs-sys.uucp (Chris Gregors)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: Re: Minimum speed on processors
Keywords: 68332 speed
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 05:34:04 GMT
Reply-To: crs@crs-sys.UUCP (Chris Gregors)
Organization: Confusion Control

In article <1992Sep01.153426.3381@syscon.rn.com> carl@syscon.rn.com (Carl Kreider) writes:
>crs@crs-sys.uucp (Chris Gregors) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug27.153424.7602@rtsg.mot.com> you write:
>>>Just another datapoint: the 68332 can be clocked down to DC (0) 
>
>>Sounds pretty pointless... run the processor at 0Mhz! The *ONLY* possible
>>reason for doing that would be the power consumption. But the 68332 has a
>>low power stop 'LSTOP' instruction.
>
>In the old days, we used to use it to single step.  Course now that we all
>write in HLL and have state analyzers or ICEs, I guess that would be
>foolish.
>-- 
>Carl Kreider       Usenet    uunet!rde!gator!syscon!carl
>CIS  71076,76      Internet  carl@syscon.rn.com

Ahh yes the olden dayz.. Now-a-dayz we spend the $5 and build the background
mode interface for a pc, call the Motorola bbs and get the !FREE! background
debugger and develop that way!

Assuming you are using a 683xx or 68hc16 type processor.

But I digress.

-- 
| Chris Gregors    crisis!crs@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca and/or c$erve = 72227,117 |
| Life's a bitch, and then, only if you are really lucky, you get to die (me)|
From: mamisra@pollux.usc.edu (Manavendra Misra)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: MC68K simulator wanted for IBM RS6000 machines
Date: 28 Aug 1992 14:23:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu
Keywords: M68k simulator, IBM RS6000

I am teaching a course on Machine Organization and Assembly Language
Programming based on the MC68000. The School here has an RS6000
environment available for the students and I am searching for a 
68000 simulator on which they can run their assembly language
programs. Any help in this regard will be appreciated. 

Manavendra Misra
Stratton Hall 208
Colorado School of Mines
Golden, CO 80401

email: mmisra@newton.mines.colorado.edu
Ph. (303)-273-3873
From: bleck@aztec.ai.mit.edu (Olaf Bleck)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: math library for 68332
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:48:31 GMT
Reply-To: bleck@ai.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


I'm interested in getting ahold of some math libraries (source even,
(non-floating-point) for the 68332 (or 68020, to reimplement).  Any ideas?

-Olaf
bleck@ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
From: steveq@swifty.dap.CSIRO.AU (Stephen Quigg)
Subject: Re: Looking for a 68000 C cross compiler on PC
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Applied Physics, Sydney
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:58:34 GMT

In article <57380@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> wilker@hopf.math.purdue.edu (Clarence Wilkerson) writes:
>Check out some of the source groups for Atari and Amigas.
>There's available in source form
>"North C"
>Sozaabon C
>C68k vIII in minix collection at plains.nodak.edu.
>All these are much smaller in source form than GCC.
>They may not be ANSI, but they're usable.
>
>You can check out the FISH disk collection for Amiga sources.
>-- 
>Clarence Wilkerson      \ Bitnet:       wilker%math.purdue.edu@purccvm
>Prof. of Math. (topology)\ Internet:    wilker@math.purdue.edu
>Dept. of Mathematics      \ messages:   (317) 494-1903, FAX 494-0548
>Purdue University,         \ office:    (317) 494-1955 (voice/modem)
>W. Lafayette, Indiana 47907 \ 
 I just saw v4 comming past in the Minix newsgroup today.
Steve.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
From: kevinb@dev1.csg.ssd.fsi.com (Kevin Bonifield)
Subject: Wire-Wrap PGA Socket Label
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:01:31 GMT
Distribution: us
Organization: FlightSafety Simulation Systems Division - Tulsa

  Does anyone have a source for wire-wrap labels that fit PGA wire-wrap
  sockets?  The socket is a 15X15 SAMTEC part for a prototype 68340
  board.  There are arbitrary reasons I can't use a "self-made" label 
  (need the plastic pre-printed type).

  Any pointers appreciated...

  // Kevin

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Bonifield                        |  Phone: 918-251-0500 x520
Avionics Interface Computer Design     |  Email: kevinb@fsi.com
FlightSafety - Simulator Systems Div   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: Re: Minimum speed on processors
Date: 30 Aug 92 16:06:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.oecK_3i00Vot82UFdG
	<1992Aug30.000335.15042@crs-sys.uucp>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.m68k: 30-Aug-92 Re: Minimum speed on
proces.. Chris Gregors@crs-sys.uu (756)

> In article <1992Aug27.153424.7602@rtsg.mot.com> you write:
> >Just another datapoint: the 68332 can be clocked down to DC (0) 

> Sounds pretty pointless... run the processor at 0Mhz! The *ONLY* possible
> reason for doing that would be the power consumption. But the 68332 has a
> low power stop 'LSTOP' instruction.

> Granted, Motorola doesn't spec a minimum Tcyc but in _typical_ operations,
> the 332 is driven by a 32.678KHz watch crystal beaten up to 16.777MHz.
> Therefore using the divisors in the Clock Synthesizer Control Reg (SYNCR) 
> you can get a nice ssslllllloooooooowwwwww 131KHz operation.

> -- 
> | Chris Gregors    crisis!crs@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca and/or c$erve = 72227,117 |
> | Life's a bitch, and then, only if you are really lucky, you get to die (me)|


In fact get down to 0Mhz is not the point.
But in order to be able to have a low power mode (LSTOP or whatever),
they need to design a full static chip. And this has as a side effect
that there isn't any more lower limit on frequency !

In fact, LSTOP is (internally) about the same as fixing frequency to 0Hz
(or something quite low) 

	Stefan Monnier

PS: maybe someone better informed could bring some precisions !


-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: bpalmer@BBN.COM (Brian Palmer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
Subject: Looking for '040 math library
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:07:52 GMT
Reply-To: bpalmer@BBN.COM (Brian Palmer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


This must be a FAQ but here goes:

I'm using GCC to compile code for a 68040 and need to support math
functions like: atan, sin, cos, log10 etc.  I've found math libs
for the 68881 and considered using Motorola's TRAP library. (Slow?)

What I really want is a library that sticks to the 68040's floating
point instruction subset.  Does anyone know of such a library?

What do people think of the TRAP emulation lib from Motorola?

Thanks,
Brian
Newsgroups: comp.sys.m68k
From: lydic@ka8lvz.uucp (lydic)
Subject: Re: Which processor?
Keywords: processor, cache
Organization: organization
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 04:45:32 GMT

In article <6040@pdxgate.UUCP> idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick) writes:
>How does one go about detmining what processor you are running on?  On my
>machine type only 68000, '010, '020, '030, and '040 are available and I need
>to be able to know which I'm running on.  I also need to know how to shut off
>the caches on the before mentioned processors.  I've though about using an
>illegal instruction trap, but I'm sure there has to be a more elegent method.
>If there's a FAQ for this, sorry, but point me in its direction. :)

   The only way I know is to generate an illegal instruction or an address
   error (except '20 & '30) and look at the stack frame size.  Actually pretty
   easy to do, although not very elegant.

   -.. .

   John W. Lydic Jr              lydic@ka8lvz.cmhnet.org

   "We live beyond our means, on other peoples dreams, and that's succeeding"
   Janis Ian 'Between the lines'
   ... -.-