From: gckchin@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Kelvyn Chin)
Subject: Re: Alien^3: religious and pre-modern
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:33:23 GMT

espen.aarseth@hf.uib.no (Espen Aarseth) writes:
: In article <5522@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea
: Wasp) wrote:
: > 
: > In article <espen.aarseth-050992130518@hdbea.hf-fak.uib.no> espen.aarseth@hf.uib.no (Espen Aarseth) writes:
: > >Alien^3 is in many ways a much more focused and *meaningful*
: > >film than Aliens.
: > 
: > 	A lovely line -- unfortunately, one which is in itself virtually
: > MEANINGLESS, since "meaningful", in critic terms, is a throwaway term used
: > with great weight but never defined save by the critic using it.
: 
: Of course it appears meaningless IN ITSELF, cut out of context by you.
: In my article however, it was not by itself, but elaborated and backed
: up by what followed. I am not very impressed by this style of argument.
:

I think what SW meant was that one can read meaning into almost anything, and
what is meaningful to some one may be utter rubbish to another. Personally
though, I thought Aliens was meaningless - and the "sacrifices by everyone" bit
is trite and overdone sentimentality. It ranks way up there with Mastrantonio's
declarations of love ad nauseam in the finale of the abyss, also by James
Cameron. 

  ( stuff bout android deleted)


: 
: > 	And I fail to see "gothic romance" in the android bringing down
: > the ship. Suspense, yes, but "GOTHIC ROMANCE"?
: 
: I'll try to explain. Many of the ideas and mythical imagery of the Alien-
: movies come from the gothic tradition of the 18-19th centuries. Gloomy
: scenery; monsters; dark, forbidden skies; thunder and lightning; that
: sort of thing. In the particular scene I mentioned, it was not so much
: the action of bringing down the ship as the mood of the whole setting
: that reminded me of the gothic movement.
: 
: Gothic romance is a name for the tradition which includes Mary Shelley's
: _Frankenstein_, Bram Stoker's _Dracula_ and many others. This tradition is
: generally recognized as an important foundation for what we call science
: fiction (and remember, "romance" is not the same as "love story". Look
: it up in any basic textbook on literary history). 
:

Personally, I agree a whole lot with you, Espen. The part where the android     brings down the ship to rescue Ripley, together with the explosions and the
thundering soundtrack, and all that chaos, was the *best* part of the movie.
Gothic Romance is a good word, describes this scene well. Other gothic romantic
scenes would be Phantom of the Opera swinging from the chandelier, or maybe
the scene in the first Alien where Ripley is running to the escape shuttle but
meets the Alien around the corridor, there is the stroboscope effect as we see
her backing off against the wall, while the Alien *slowly _peers_ * around the
corner: that was great. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I  didn't like Aliens, and Terminator 2 for that matter. All they were were
good action flicks and nothing more. Aliens, especially, left a bad taste in my mouth. Let me explain. In _Alien_, one creature killed six of them. In Aliens, 
there were so many of them and so much gung ho firepower that made Aliens look
very much like any other Hollywood blockbuster: to me the essence (an "arty"
word, sorry but can't find anything else, you understand) of Alien was totally
lost in the sequel.

Another thing is that in the first Alien, all characters were real, or at least
real enough. In Aliens, Ripley has been elevated to some sort of super- heroine
which single handedly takes on all the Aliens and wins. In the first Alien, she
was scared shit, and through a mixture of luck and tenacity, won over the 
creature. I just saw Alien and Aliens back to back just recently and was quite
turned off by Aliens. I am not starting a flame -war here but just voicing
the opinions (mine and another friend of mine). I don't care that Newt is 
supposed to be of importance to Ripley, and that there was great sacrifice
in Ripley going back to save her: beacause I knew all along that was how it
was going to end., and basically, it's a pretty formulaic set- piece, I've seen it in so many movies, it's predictable and it's real silly,  I think it stinks. No offence, OK. My opinion. :)
 
: ( stuff about Dracula deleted)
 
: If you prefer the Viet Nam-oriented them-against-us action of Aliens to the
: low-tech gloom of Alien^3, there is not much to argue about. It is a



I've nothing to say of Vietnam, but them against us action basically sums up
Aliens: good for box- office (it was a big hit here) but not very memorable.



: question
: of cultural background, experience and taste. And as the Romans used to
: say,
: the right to criticize is bought by any fool along with the entrance
: ticket.
:

I'd leave out the "fool" bit. Nobody wants a flame war. :) (I think)
 

: > 	"Bad." The word you are looking for is "bad." It was almost 
: > unbelievably BAD. 
:

Aliens was pretty BAD. Alien was terrific. I am waiting for Alien^3 to hit 
Singapore soon, because it sounds good. I already know half the movie from
the discussions, and I've flipped through the comics adaptation. (can't
resist temptation). Before reading Epsen's post, I already concluded long
ago that Alien^3 sounded more European than American, something like punk 
or Bergman gone mainstream, etc.

 
: Please. This kind of rudeness isn't even funny. Whatever suggested to you
: that I were looking for something?
:

Well, it didn't look that rude. Opinions differ, don't they. 
See ya :)
 
: espen

kelvyn