HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: I've just been repremanded by net.big.brother
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 22:21:53 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec11.182435.13904@ms.uky.edu> morgan@engr.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:
>
>Boy, an admin just can't win, can he?
>
>It's often been said (in this forum), "It's good to just have a chat with 
>someone, rather than arbitrarily yanking their account/access/privileges."
>
>Now, when an admin sends an apparently polite note to a user, we're right
>back into the ambiguities of "warning", "threat", and "possible punitive
>measures".

A threat is a threat, no matter how polite.

>Tell me something -- if you were running toward a brick wall, wouldn't
>you want someone to warn you?  It's the same situation in this case.
>If the people complaining about this user keep complaining, the odds are
>good that (sooner or later) they'll complain to someone who will initiate
>proceedings against the user.  If a casual word from the admin can prevent
>that from happening, isn't that worth it?

But until the sysadmin 'asked' the user to stop, there may have been
no grounds for any proceedings against the user.  Once the sysadmin
makes his 'request', the user can be proceeded against on the typical
catchall of refusing to obey the reasonable request of a University
official.  The sysadmin didn't just warn the user-- he put up the
wall.

>If this user wants to test the bureaucratic waters, all he has to do is
>keep posting the "objectionable" material; I guarantee that he'll wind 
>up testing the waters to his heart's content.  I see no problem with
>the admin who warned him about the brick wall......

Again, if he wanted to test the 'rules' (or lack of rules) against
obscenity, he can no longer do so, because of that catchall charge
they can get him with once he has been 'warned'.

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc
From: Chuck.Lavazzi@launchpad.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi)
Subject: Re: Khat
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 17:54:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.233825.1396@cbnewse.cb.att.com> mea@cbnewse.cb.att.com (mark.e.anderson) writes:
>In article Chuck.Lavazzi@launchpad.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:
>>In article  jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>>>In article <18287@borg.cs.unc.edu>, bell@liszt (Andrew Bell) writes:
>
>>>be left in a "country" (more like a nuthouse) with those millions of
>>>stupid druggie meatballs who can't even feed themselves without help
>>>from the greatest country on Earth, USA.
>
>>	I have two possible responses to this, based on two opposing
>>assumptions:
>>1) (assumes this was a joke):  you should attach smileys.  As it is, this
>>reads way too much like something that would be posted in all seriousness
>>by one of the geeks over in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.
>
>Assume it was a joke.  Jyrki posts here all the time and it appears
>he has become so enraged that  he must resort to sarcasm.
>
	Yep.  After reading a few more of his posts, it became obvious that
assumption 1) was correct.  Alas, the article had already begum it's trek
through the net at that point.
	And I really *have* seen much more ludricrous statements posted in
all seriousness by some of the foaming-at-the mouth political fringies on
the net.  Sometimes it's tough for humor to compete with reality....

Chuck
No .sig, no frills, no foolin'


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: Why Not Boycott This Homophobe? (was Re: Fundamentalist Nightmare)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 08:10:02 GMT

In article <1fqglbINNeod@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>Because the best way to make a bigot known is to keep him talking.
>Because the best way to show that irrational hatred of a group really
>exists is to to show people someone who practices it.   People tend
>to be naive about these things, I know I often am.  Seeing a bigot
>in action is the best way to make the "silent majority" aware of how
>serious a given situation may have become, and lead to something
>being done about it.  If Mr. Cramer has done all the things I've seen
>him accused of (in talk.religion.misc, I haven't seen his postings,
>so I dont' know) then he is doing tremendous good for those who
>are *against* gay-bashing.  Don't try to shut him up, so that people
>can't get to see what bigoted thinking can blossem into; hold him
>up as a shining example of it; it might make more people wake up
>and think about things more.  

Holy smoke!  You must be new if you haven't seen any of Cramer's
posts.  Ca.politics and ba.politics are full of them, having nothing
to do with California or Bay Area politics and everything to do with
Cramer's fixation on homosexuals.  I'd be happy if Cramer would
confine his posts about homosexuals to alt.politics.homosexuality
(where they should go), but he refuses to do that, infecting the
politics newsgroups and soc.motss on a regular basis.  If nothing
else, Cramer routinely breaks the rules of net.etiquette.

Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: I've just been repremanded by net.big.brother
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:35:21 GMT

kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) wrote:

>I read the phrase "there are standards for reasonable conduct" as a
>warning/threat of possible punitive measures.

morgan@engr.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:

>Boy, an admin just can't win, can he?

>It's often been said (in this forum), "It's good to just have a chat with 
>someone, rather than arbitrarily yanking their account/access/privileges."
[...]

There are two kinds of "chats" with respect to expression:
  1) "I (or the University) dislike the content/tone/etc of your message,
      but we respect your right to expression it."
  2) "Your content/tone/etc seems to violate the University standards.
      Please stop such expression."

The first, in my opinion, is the University exercising its freedom of
expression. The second, in my opinion, is the University trying to
surpress a student's expression.

It's one thing for the University to, say, denounce an editorial in
the student newpaper. It is another thing for it to suggest that the
editorial violates some unspecified "University standards" and to
ask/order that no similar expression occurs in the future.

- Carl
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
From: msp@msen.com (Jerry Foster)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: labels
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:42:21 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

From nigel.msen.com!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!lynx!awells Fri Dec 11 13:32:00 1992
From: awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Andrew V. Wells)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,talk.bizarre,talk.politics.misc
Subject: I've just been repremanded by net.big.brother
Keywords: no reply
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:53:03 GMT
Followup-To: alt.censorship
Organization: Northeastern University

>excellent groups as talk.bizarre.  The scary thing is that
>the real powerhouses behind all of this are not just people
>like tipper gore, but ultra-right wing fanatic religous
>fronts with Orwellian names such as the "American Family 
>Association."
                                   andy wells

Get off the "ultra-right wing fanatic religous" crap.  It's simply a
derogatory label tagged by liberals and the media to anybody who holds a
conservative position on a subject.  I'll bet if I called you a "crazy
left-wing socialist loving porno lunatic" becuase you have a different
view than me, I'd get flamed out of existence.  As it is, labels like
those are reserved now for the conservatives in our society.  What
happened all of a sudden to all you First Amendment flag wavers?  It seems
to be permanently waving to the left at the moment; its never allowed to
wave to the right.

Putting stickers on music in no way prohibits anyone from buying what they
want.  Its simply a tool for parents to know what type of music may not be
suitable for their children, much like the movie rating system.

--
  //  Jerry Lee "3P"
\x/   e-mail: jfos@msp.com
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
From: edsall@iastate.edu (David M Edsall)
Subject: ONE YEAR AGO: What to do about the new Newsgroup Censorship Policy at ISU
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:35:22 GMT

In <david.692915520@colt.cc.iastate.edu> david@iastate.edu (David M. Martin Jr.) writes:

>In <1991Dec16.152546.14765@news.iastate.edu> i1neal@exnet.iastate.edu (Neal Rauhauser -- ) writes:

>>	2. some sort of press, beyond the Daily, covering this censorship.
>>	   I know the nice AP lady here in town, I'm sure all of you
>>	   have similar ideas - "Censorship @ state university - page 3
>>	   of Today section in the register"

>Hmm.  As an exercise, choose the headline that you think would shock
>more Iowans:

>	PORNOGRAPHY RESTRICTED AT IOWA STATE
>		Drug Chat also Taboo

>or

>	  KOMPUTER ZUM KLO AT IOWA STATE
>	 Attorney General to File Charges


>>	4. Contact the Gay etc etc, whatever the acronym is this month,
>>	   and let them know that a.s.motss is going to be cut -
>>	   I'd say this is grounds for a discrimination suit.

>Huh?  Discrimination suit?  That would require both actual
>discrimination (of which I see none) and a law prohibiting it in this
>form (which we certainly don't have).


>David
>-- 
>David Martin
>Iowa State University					david@iastate.edu
Xref: sparky alt.censorship:9616 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3729
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
Subject: Re: I've just been repremanded by net.big.brother
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:39:43 GMT
	<BETSYS.92Dec12211548@ra.cs.umb.edu>
	<1992Dec13.144427.25801@eng.umd.edu>
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1992Dec13.144427.25801@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:

>Does your university have the catchall "refusal to obey the reasonable
>request of a universal official" in its disciplinary code?  If so, a
>'polite request' is an order, no matter what else it may be.  You need
>to have that removed from the code before you can reasonably say that
>it is not a demand and not a threat.
	Personally, I'm *NOT* a "University Official." I am
"Professional Staff." I don't think I have any official ability to act
formally in the name of the University; what I do have is explicitly
delegated authority to take short-term actions necessary to the
functionning of the system. Temporarily shutting off a cracked account
is such an action. Deleting the account of an active student in a cs
course is not. (Accounts of students who are not taking cs courses are
considered "courtesy" accounts and I have explicit permission to make 
decisions about those. )

   If I make a policy request which is ignored, I have to take it to
the Dept. Chair to seek formal action. Any breach of academic code or 
student policy also has to go through channels; I would be a witness
or a complainant or something.
   Of course, we are a cs dept. lab, not the main computer center.
They are the ones to whom the "library" analogy applies. However,
through talent and interest, our system is the only one offering
Netnews, gopher, wais, and other services, so I do get "crtsy" users
from other departments. We charge them, too.

>If you also tell him that his behavior may violate university
>standards, and ask him to cut it out, that's an order, backed up by
>the threat of university sanction.

Nah, see above. It's an Official Statement that the Department thinks
he is Being a Jerk and has Our Displeasure. It probably is a threat
that if he is a Public Jerk, he's going to have a hard time finding a
professor to write him a glowing recommendation for a job or for grad
school, but that's the consequences of his actions.


--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               BITNET:ESCHWARTZ%UMBSKY.DNET@NS.UMB.EDU
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,isu.newsgroups,isu.talk.politics,isu.talk.usenet-policy
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: IT KEEPS GOING AND GOING: An excerpt from the ISU Graduate Student Handbook
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:37:07 GMT

The ISU Graduate Student Handbook:

>Graduate students have responsibility:

>   to help maintain the atmosphere of free inquiry and free expression
>   inherent to the academic community.

>   to respect the right of other members of the community to express
>   themselves freely.
[...]

Contrast with Iowa State University Computation Center Usenet News Policy:

>With the academic freedom of the campus environment goes individual
>intellectual responsibility.  Hallmarks of that responsibility are to obtain
>and use material in manners which respect others in the campus community;
[...]
>Occasionally, even ordinary newsgroups may contain material which a
>reader finds objectionable.  Members of the university community have
>the right to request a review of particular material by contacting the
>Usenet News administrator in writing.
[...]
>The purpose of the Standard News List is to provide access to the newsgroups
>which are less likely to evoke questions regarding access, use, or
>distribution of the material.  Hence, the Standard News List offering will
>explicitly exclude some newsgroups.  The Standard News List offering will be
>the default provided to campus computers.

- Carl

-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
 = kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: andreww@win4.vut.EDU.AU (Andrew Watts)
Subject: Re: Bots, Newsgroups, Protocols, Whatever
Organization: Victoria University Of Technology, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:55:11 GMT

macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:

>So let's put the following limitations on bots:

Add this and i'll go along completely;

1) [a]. Bots shalt not be allowed on IRC.

There, easy.

Andrew

andreww@win3.vut.edu.au
TZ @ Irc
From: asamonte@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Just some loser...)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:47:24 GMT
Organization: Nothing worth mentioning...

mattm@digex.com (Matt Mosley) was telling me...
>>under such a system, if you have a mode "+b *!*@*" it would be the
>>*only* ban there, since it would replace any other bans on the channel,
>>so of course it would be the *only* one you want removed...
>
>Actually, this really should be done.  A "+b *!*@*" should replace all
>other bans, and remove them.  Same thing with "+b *!*@my.host.edu" removing

YOu got that last example backwards.  *!*@my.host.edu is the redundant
one.  *!*@*.host.edu takes care of it.

I don't think it's realyl THAT hard of a change  I suggested it before.
There is no major coding involved.  They can practically use all
of the code they have now, with a few algorithmic changes.


-Alex
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: asamonte@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Just some loser...)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Whereis the MiniIRC client??
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:03:16 GMT
Organization: Nothing worth mentioning...

rodder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jon D.$Rodder) was telling me...
>In article <9212151422.AA02300@hrt213.brooks.af.mil> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:
>>On Sun, 13 Dec 1992 09:06:02 GMT, arumble@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Anthony Rumble) said:
>> > I heard around the traps of a MiniIRC, TinyIRC client??
>>
>>	How small is small?  Rocker's elisp irc client is 104K
>>byte-compiled, and I've got a working (albeit *VERY PRIMITIVE*) working
>>elisp client core that's just over 2K.
>
>nathan@laredo.eas.gatech.edu wrote/is writing a client called TinyIRC.
>I've got version 0.2, not sure what is "current".  Its primative and
>a little quirky, but it works and the binaries are pretty small.  The
>smallest I've been able to get my sun4 tinyirc binary is about 16k, but I
>think it runs 8k to 10k on many other platforms (only other I've tried
>is rs/6000 AIX, which yield 8k optimized and stripped).  I ftped
>tinyirc.c from ftp.uu.net (/tmp I think).
>

He gave me a version of it as well...It is pretty small, but it's barely
a step up above raw server.  You have to understand the raw irc commands
to do it.  Unless it's been fixed in a later version than the one I have.

-Alex

--
From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: A new (very simple) bot solution
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:55:19 GMT
Organization: Doug's House of Disco

In article <avalon.724248710@coombs> avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:
>scott@sfi.santafe.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes:
>
>>*** #hotsex              *\*!*nmsu*@*
>
>>gotta love those backslashes!    The last one is intriguing.
>
>Have to wonder about people sometimes...regexs aren't used by the server
>for pattern matching on bans, just *'s and ?'s...

regex's have nothing to do w/ it (at the server level, anyways) ...

Somebody was fond of giving their floodbots names that contained \'s so
when people tried to /ignore them, their client thought they were trying
to quote the next character, and the net effect was that you couldn't
ignore the bot unless you understood this.

Basically, ALL these bots had \'s in their nicks and usernames, so this
ban was fairly effective ...

Have to wonder about people sometimes ... yes, gotta agree with that.


-- 
----------------------- \  Zippy says:
Doug McLaren,            \  YOW!!! I am having fun!!!
DemoN on IRC              \
dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  \
-------------------------- /
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu (Dan Weiss )
Subject: Re: #hottub lame bots...
Followup-To: alt.irc
Organization: Chiba City
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:15:17 GMT

In article <avalon.724163618@coombs>, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren
Reed) wrote:
> 
> Through a recent experiment on #hottub, the following results
> were gained:
> 
> <WILDster> MASS KICK/DEOP/BAN PROTECTION ACTIVATED!
> <BigBrothr> MASS KICK/DEOP/BAN PROTECTION ACTIVATED!
> 
> <SHIVA>   I REQUEST YOU DONT do that
> <CHI_OMEGA>   I REQUEST YOU DONT do that
> <WILDster>   I REQUEST YOU DONT do that
> <BigBrothr>   I REQUEST YOU DONT do that
> 
> pick the clones...
> 
> avalon

Only about 2 months ago we had finally shut all the bots up.  That is,
there was a general consensus to kick and ban any bots that publicly
"talked."

These talking, flooding, clones have multiplied to great numbers in only a
few months.  The future is not bright.

A side note: One night a few weeks ago I wittnessed a conversation between
two bots.  This would have been no big deal if the bots had been programed
with this sort of thing in mind.  But, they were two bots programed by two
people who did not counsult each other in programing the respective bots.

<Lamebot> Hello everyone!
<Luserbot> Hello Lamebot!
<Lamebot> Whats up Luserbot?
<Luserbot> Not a lot, Lamebot.


I have still not decided if I am going to laugh or cry.
-------------------------
Dan Weiss
Washington DC
Dweiss@chiba.hughes.american.edu
If it bounces ->Dweiss@auvm.american.edu
Flammable@IRC
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: andreww@win4.vut.EDU.AU (Andrew Watts)
Subject: Re: Bots, Newsgroups, Protocols, Whatever
Organization: Victoria University Of Technology, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:40:12 GMT

mrgreen@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (matthew green) writes:

>Get off irc then &ie..   :)

I am not a bot m@ie !#@ Never have been, and never will be! 

>ps, dinopuppy babysitters aren't really bots..   

Lemme just point this out ONE more time. I am _NOT_ going to
be babysitting ANY offspring of yours!

hrmp!

Andrew.
andreww@win3.vut.edu.au
TZ @ IRC
From: merklin@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ed Kemo)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: kanji and irc
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:32:35 GMT
Distribution: alt.irc
Organization: /etc/organization



Does anyone know how to run irc so that kanji (japanese, korean, chinese)
characters are using instead of standard characters...
if so please email me at merklin@gnu.ai.mit.edu
thanks alot I remember hearing about something about a patch to irc
thanks again
ed
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: patriot.mit.edu (vanity server alert)
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:00:54 GMT

In article <1gbjbpINNjr2@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:

> BTW, do you really think patriot
>routes off charon?

I take it this means you want you C/N lines deleted? OK.
From: asamonte@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Just some loser...)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: patriot.mit.edu (vanity server alert)
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:43:53 GMT
Organization: Nothing worth mentioning...

tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) was telling me...
>On Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:16:50 GMT, mnystrom@athena.mit.edu (Mika Nystroem) said:
>
> M> I haven't fixed it because I don't have root access and the people who do aren't
> M> going to. I did the following instead:
>
> M> [from /scratch2/mnystrom/ircd.conf]
>
> M> K:patriot::*
> M> K:localhost::*
>
> M> So now we get:
> M> *** Connecting to port 6667 of server patriot
> M> *** *** Ghosts are not allowed on IRC.
>
> M> I hope everyone is satisfied. 
>
>	Hardly.  Take it out.
>
>	Why should you disallow user on the host local to the server
>simply because some loser decides that it offends his sensibilities?
>Particularly when he's dunce enough to call a *system* problem an *IRC*
>hack.

I agree, K lining your own host is kinda silly.  All you ahve to do is have them fix
the problem.  But you're too lazy to ask them, or motivate the admins to do it.

-Alex

--
From: prv2d@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Whiplash)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: patriot.mit.edu (vanity server alert)
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:50:33 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Dec11.144428.13598@news.ysu.edu> doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) writes:
>It appears that a new vanity server, patriot.mit.edu, has just popped up.
>
>The server-op (as listed by /admin) was sending annoying msgs to an 
>acquaintance of mine, and when he objected, he was /kill'd.
>
>Who the hell gives these guys C/N lines ?
>

   Oh no! Someone got killed! Vanity alert, vanity alert!
--
---
The road to nowhere leads to me
---
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: patriot.mit.edu (vanity server alert)
Date: 14 Dec 92 05:51:24 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

mnystrom@athena.mit.edu (Mika Nystroem) writes:

>patriot. I am the only person with access either to the executable or to the
>ircd.conf, and I intend to keep it that way. The I line is "* *", there are
>no K-lines, no L-lines, and I am not going to release the list of O-lines here, 
>but let's just say "It's short." 

but if gwydion is an oper on that server, its at least 1 line too long.

avalon
Newsgroups: alt.irc