HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:51:09 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Jul25.004719.4389@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.135134.19669@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>
>>Shakespeare
>>portrays Shylock as a comic villain and although the portrayal is deeper
>>and more nuanced than other Elizabethan portrayals of Jews, owing to
>>Shakespeare's genius, a comic villain is different in kind from the
>>tragic hero that Othello is.
>
>It is no comic villain who asks, "If you prick us do we not bleed?"
>Shylock is not a "more nuanced" comic villain--he's not a comic
>villain at all.

Mike, fine, have it your way.  If you can't see the difference between
the nuanced comic villain Shylock and the noble Othello, and
consequently you can't see the difference between referring to the
former as "usurer" and the latter as "monstrous black miscegenator",
then we'll add anti-Semitism (or self-hatred if Posner is Jewish) to
Judge Posner's charge sheet.  The issue is unimportant to me.
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Date: 26 Jul 92 03:33:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul26.033347.1797
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Bryo5A.CHy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> fischer@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
(W. T. Fischer) writes:
>The last line of Sue Grafton's _A is for Alibi_, before the epilog, is "I blew
>him away."


This is not a great last line.  In this case, context is all. 


--Barbara
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:45:04 GMT

csuah@warwick.ac.uk (~WISP at CU~) writes:
: In article <1992Jul24.075717.104265@zeus.calpoly.edu> rcasey@zeus.calpoly.edu (Rosalie J Casey) writes:
: >>
: >>Let's not forget the Apatheists.  We don't know and we don't really care.
: 
: Please can I join?
: 
: The Wisp.

Who cares? :-)

Bill "Does it matter?" Nelson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim)
Subject: Re: Rashomon and Guildenstern Are Dead
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:44:31 GMT

In article <9207211541.AA21019@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>It somehow seems appropriate that as this discussion dies down, an
>article on the subject appears in The New York Times Book Review.
>
>In the July 19th edition, there is a review of:
>
>        H.
>        The Story Of Heathcliff's Journey
>        Back To Wuthering Heights
>        By Lin Haire-Sargeant
>        292 pp. New York: Pocket Books. $20.
>
>The story is told in a long letter to Cathy, written by Heathcliff.  It
>tells the story of the three years that he spent away from Wuthering Heights.


	Ah, but have you seen this month's issue of _Harper's_? It contains
five or six short sequels to well-known books and stories, such as
_Metamorphosis_ ( --> "Gregor Samsa: My Life as a Bug") and Updike's "Rabbit"
books ( --> "Rabbit Resurrected").

	They were truly wondrous, and I recommend them to all and sundry.
Or is that what started this discussion in the first place?



-- 
MUDname: Sidera           "...If I seem to give a damn, please tell me. I would
University of Delaware      hate to be giving the wrong impression."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Reply-To: joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:47:09 GMT


This discussion has encouraged me to ask the following:
I have a friend who claims that my love of literature is "a mere
hobby" and that "reading any kind of fiction would be a waste of
my time."  He's a scientist (specializes in an esoteric branch of
biology that I can't even remember how to spell, let alone 
understand :-), and he refuses to read ANY novels.  He reads only
books by scientists (and yes, I've seen him check their credentials
on the book jacket -- a doctorate from Yale or Harvard is approved
worthy of his reading time).

Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous decades and
current writers) in which the subject of science and scientists is
handled intelligently?  Such as a book about a marine biologist, 
perhaps?  I seem to remember a book about a woman who was interested in
anthropology...Margaret Drabble?  Lloyd's birthday is in August, and
I'm going to sneak in a novel with his other gifts! 

Thanks for any help. Please respond to this e-mail address.

joanne
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:44:35 GMT

In article <18JUL199214184519@zeus.tamu.edu> spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>Ron Nadel (x2025) writes...
>> 
>>My answer to the thread about reading dust jackets/backs of
>>books before reading the book itself got me thinking about
>>the novels that I consider the greatest from American 
>>writers.  Keeping in mind that it's always a matter of taste
>>and opinion (and you know what we say about opinions...) my
>>list of the greatest American novels is (in no real order)
>> 
>>Huckleberry Finn    - Twain
>>All the King's Men  - Warren
>>Grapes of Wrath     - Steinbeck
>>Lonesome Dove       - McMurtry
>>Look Homeward Angel - Wolfe
>> 
>>Now the thing that has struck me about MY list is that all
>>these novels have Southern settings, written by Southern
>>authors.  Three of them received Pulitzer Prizes (although
>>I no longer have confidence in the Pulitzer since William
>>Kennedy's Ironweed won), AtKM, GoW, and LD.
>> 
>>Any thoughts about your picks for the Greatest American
>>novels?
>> 
>>Ron
>
>+----------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
>Avast, ye varlet!
>
>You didn't put _Gravity's Rainbow_ up there in bold letters, underlined and
>with little splats ("*") around it.
>


I wholeheartedly second this motion.




Regards,

rafem
From: posey@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Edwin Posey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Bibliographical SOS
Keywords: Bibliography, first editions
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:50:26 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I seem to recall using a bibliograpy of the first printings
of British literati some years ago (10?) - but have lost
track of author and title.  Sort of a Blanck BAL, but for
Britain.  

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:20:14 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul25.120445.20692@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> Clayton Cramer writes:
# 	Ignorance is collegiate story: a friend of mine, a traditional
# 	aged college student (unlike me) was talking to a classmate before
# 	biology started.  The classmate (born and educated in the U.S.) 
# 	mentioned that she had been amazed at the things she found in her
# 	American history text: "Did you know we had a Civil War?"
# 
# 	I suppose if Ice-T made a rap music video about it, and MTV ran
# 	it, there might be hope for the next generation to at least have
# 	a superficial knowledge -- instead of none at all.
# 
# 	"Kill Your Television," sounds better and better.
# 
# Ken Burns' TV series, *The Civil War* has probably affected more people's
# understanding of the Civil War than all the books put end-to-end. It would
# make an interesting addendum to a National Curriculum.
# 
# 							Fido

I doubt that many teenagers saw it.  It's not on MTV, and requires
more than a 3 minute attention span.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: plp1@Ra.MsState.Edu (pat parker)
Subject: cs lewis and jrr tolkien
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:58:41 GMT


somewhere in the dark, cobweb-ridden corners of my mind, i seem to remember
reading that cs lewis and jrr tolkien were associates or friends or something.

is this true?  if so, can anyone cite specific examples of how the two men
influenced each other's writings?  if not, can anyone forgive my halucinations?



________________________________________________________________________
pat parker
mississippi state university
plp1@ra.msstate.edu
________________________________________________________________________
"They're not leeches, they're scientologists!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:59:21 GMT

In article <1177@tecsun1.etl.army.mil> riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes:
>>> replied, [paraphrased] ``Either God exists or He doesn't.  Either I believe in
>>> God or I don't.  Of the four possibilities, only one is to my disadvantage.
>>> To avoid that possibility, I believe in God.''
>>>
>>> BTW, could someone tell me who said the above?

  (Pascal's Wager).

Of which someone (Russell?) remarked that it overlooks the possibility that
God might be busy preparing a special hell for those who believe in him 
because it is expedient.    

		Chuck Smythe
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:41:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

In article <l7e3dhINNe72@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.204709.26622@PacBell.COM> 
>rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>> Another candidate for your inspection:
>>
>>          Gore Vidal, "Myra Breckenridge"
>
>Oh my, yes.  There's also his very wicked "Duluth", a brilliant
>satire in the Roman tradition.
>

Speaking of Gore Vidal, today's Philadelphia Inquirer reports that
"his forthcoming _Live From Golgotha_, to be published in late August, 
is described as an iconoclastic life of Jesus Christ featuring network
coverage of the Crucifixion and a visit by - who else? - Shirley
Maclaine."



Regards,

rafem
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: md_norma@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (MD Norman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Dead Authors?
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:18:35 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

Dead authors go to Hell...?

Try "Inferno" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
From: kelley@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:41:35 GMT
Organization: S. Peter Pryor Junior College

In article <1992Jul24.194709.1844@sco.com> joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash) writes:
- 
- Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous decades and
- current writers) in which the subject of science and scientists is
- handled intelligently?  Such as a book about a marine biologist, 

Why, 'Cannery Row' of course.

Steve
	and a pretty damn good movie too
From: whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: need help with book title
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:33:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul23.113343.19447
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <711856349.4331.0@helios.mercury.acs.cmu.edu> Ken Zuroski <kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Is it also possible, now that I am remembering, that there was at some
>point in the book an encounter with some sort of native people, who were
>dying because of a lack of sulfur, and so the boys left a chicken with
>them so that they could get sulfur from eggs?


        Don't know about the first, but THIS is _The Wonderful Flight
to the Mushroom Planet_ by Eleanor Cameron.  Copyright 1954, published
by Scholastic Book Services, TX913 (paper).  The chicken was their
mascot, Mrs. Pennyfeather.  The book was popular, and there were several
sequels.

        John Whitmore
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joe@smena.russia.msk.su (Joe Ratcatcher)
Subject: Problem with good books for you
Reply-To: joe@smena.russia.msk.su
Organization: unknown
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 19:23:36 +0300

Hi netters!

Friend of mine (medical psychologyst and ex-policeman) has written two books:

1.About sex maniacs on material of 160 cases.
2."Criminalistic and psychologic significance of tattoos and slang."
Russian crime.

Due to political and economical reasons they cannot be published here in
Russia. So if anybody THERE is interested in these books, he'll be glad to
cooperate in publishing. He has English, German and Ivrit texts. they are
scientific books, but they are written in simlpe, understandable language.

I have data on the second book only:
350 pages with 120 pages of pictures.
About 1500 tattoos and about 3000 words of slang are described and decoded.

Best wishes,
                                            Ratcatcher


--- *** << Everything above is my own opinion, employer may disagree >> *** ---
_______________________________________________________________________________
|        Joe Ratcatcher            |                                          |
| (real name - Alexander Lebedev)  |"Flying wind lefts many lands behind.     |
|      joe@smena.russia.msk.su     |But long afterwards it still blows there."|
|        tel. +7(095)3128386       |          -- Words of Vantala --          |
|Kliazminskaia st., 6-1-13, Moscow |                                          |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Escobar of Escobar Hall
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:58:43 GMT
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway


Francis Muir writes:

        Francis Muir writes:

                NURSE: Marigold, Marigold! It's time we went, dear!
                MARIGOLD sighs gently, and stirs a little in her sleep.

        Oh Shit! I gave away the ending. Did I scare Taranto to death?
        I wonder what his last words were...

Yes, I deserve this.  I'll stand up and take it like a man.  But Francis
needn't worry for my health -- I use Fiona's technique of willed forgetting
in regard to all of Fido's articles.  In a minute, this will all seem like
a dream.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:38:57 GMT

John Ewing writes:
>Charles Dickens: "Tale of Two Cities"
>
>Check out the first paragraph (i.e. "It was the best of times, it was
>the worst of times ...") and the last paragraph (i.e. "Tis a far, far
>noblier thing that I do for my country ...") of the book.
>
>John Ewing (johne@or.credence.com)

Since poor Dickens is getting kicked around the block in another
thread, perhaps we should get the last part right (i.e. nothing for
his country):

	It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done;
	it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever
	known.

And while we're at it the first sentence is pretty good but don't you
think that it gets even better as it goes along?

	It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was
the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of
belief, it was the age of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it
was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the
winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before
us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the
other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period,
that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received,
for good, or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Dickens - just a hack? Naaaa!

Keith

	

	

--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
From: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Subject: Re:  Isaac Asimov
Reply-To: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:56:35 GMT

In article <liam.054f@durie.amigans.gen.nz>, liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam
Greenwood) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.093502@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
writes:
> >
> >Oh, I dunno.  I'm a big fan of Heinlein, but I'd have to say Joshua was
> >pretty much on the mark.
> >
> Aw, come on people, anyone who can write a 'come back' SF novel with a trip
> to Oz (...the real one, not Australia) and a guest appearance by a Lensman
> has gotta have an imagination, a sense of humour and his tongue pressed
> firmly in his cheek :-) .
> 
> Mind you trying to tie _every_ character into the one story throughout the
> last few books was a bit suspect, however you gotta admire the attempt.
> I mean there were characters from 'Space Family Stone' pulled into it...
> 
> --
>  Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
>                 Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
>               she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel
> 

I do admire the attempt, and I'm a big fan of Heinlein.  But I must say,
speaking semi-objectively, that the *writing* in his last few books was
terrible.  Yes, he still had imagination (although it seemed to fail him
in the worst possible places; see, for example, the ending of Friday).
Yes, he had ambitious ideas.  I'm sorry to have to say it, but he no longer
had what it takes to carry out his ideas effectively.  

Marie Coffin
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Michael Strogoff
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:24:48 GMT

I'm just reading Michael Strogoff by Jules Verne, and I find it a departure
from his usual science-fiction themes (and better, imho). Did he in fact
write other books in this vein or was this the exception?
Is this considered to be one his best novels?


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Originator: jon@cyclone
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:18:14 GMT


In article <1992Jul22.191303.20390@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
> : >>
> : >>NOT Isaac!  He's up there raising H*** with someone!
> : >>
> : > 
> : > Ah, a-hem, that would be *down* there.
> : 
> : But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?
>  
> I would not say that he was an atheist. More correctly, he just did not
> accept any "Devine text" as literal truth. 
> 
> Bill
> 

However, in his auto-biography, he did refer to himself as a "jewish
atheist."

-- 
<jon@mitre.org>|--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------| Libertarian Party  
  Andre Marrou    Nancy Lord for  | 1528 Pennsylvania Avenue SE  (202)543-1988
  for President   Vice-President  | Washington, DC 20003         (800)682-1776
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: RAH
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:31:56 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul24.163227.4521@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ccaajmf@ucl.ac.uk  
(John Franks) writes:
> While RAH has come up (and by the way, sorry if I missed anything along  
this
> line - I just spotted this group), I found a novel called "Farnham's  
Freehold"
> in a little second-hand bookshop near me the other day, and basically,  
I 
> thought it was among the best Heinlein I've read. But I've never seen  
it new, 
> this was a 1967 edition (1964 first published). Any comments? It just 
> intrigued me.
> 
Farnham's Freehold is among the best Heinlein you've read?  This raises
the obvious question of which Heinlein HAVE you read?  Farnham's
Freehold might be "good" compared to I Will Fear No Evil, 
The Number of the Beast, and other late Heinlein, but I always thought
it was one of his poor books.  It's nowhere near as good as books
like Citizen of the Galaxy, Double Star, The Moon Is a Harsh 
Mistress, and Have Spacesuit, Will Travel.

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13189 alt.books.reviews:23
From: UC525655@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Mark Eaton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re: RAH
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:10:00 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri

In article <0095E2AA.A3911600@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
 
>
>>> In article <1992Jul24.130651@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
>>writes:
>>> >I read Farnham's Freehold a long time ago, and liked it.  The plot is nicely
>>> >worked out, tight, and interesting.  For some reason, it was never very
>>> >popular.
>>>
>I'll take your word for it that _Farnham's Freehold_ wasn't popular, but since
>an earlier post indicated that it went through 21 printings in 22 years, I take
>it that popularity is a relative thing.
>
>I read a lot of the stuff that Heinlein wrote for younger readers, both when I
>was a kid and later, after I started working as a high school librarian. Some
>of it held up very well - anyone else like _Double Star_? - but others, such as
>_Starship Troopers_, were well-nigh unreadable.
>
Yeah, I have most of Heinleins stuff and Ive re-read all of it several times...
I like Starship Troopers. The politics can get a little irritating, and
preachy... but I like the main story. I liked it when the Father turns up in
the service after ranting and raving about how much of a waste of time it is!
;)
 
>That leads me to my question: Have any of you gone back and re-read books from
>any genre that you loved/liked as a child, up through, say, high school? Did
>the book hold up well?  Was it awful? Why do you think either reaction
>happened? I took a children's lit course this summer, and had to re-read
>_Charlotte's Web_. I'm really sorry I did, since I had liked it as a kid. I
>really disliked it as an adult. On the other hand, just about all the Ray
>Bradbury that I liked once, I still like. _Rascal_(a children's story about a
>pet raccoon) was so good that I think I enjoyed it as much if not more as an
>adult.
>
>Anyway, if this is not approriate fare for the net, I'd be glad to hear from
>anyone via e-mail. Cheers!
>
>  ***************************************************************************
>  * George 'Notso' Suttle            * When Time recently announced the     *
>  * SUTTLE/LIB@RENNE.LIB.MONTANA.EDU * discovery of a miles-wide fungus,    *
>  * alisg@MtsUnix1.bitnet            * the largest and possibly oldest      *
>  * Fax: 406-994-2851                * known living thing, readers wrote in *
>  *                                  * immediately to ask "Can I eat it?"   *
>  ***************************************************************************
>
**********************************************************************
Mark Eaton                    * These opinions are MINE! and you cant
UC525655@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU * have them...    ;)