HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fsyael@ottoicomp (Shaye Yungster)
Subject: Einstein and the jews as a race 
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:05:37 GMT

In previous posts, Wayne Mcguire has been claiming that Albert Einstein 
asserted that jews constitute a race in the biological sense.
This is simply a lie, as the following excerpt from one of Einstein's 
articles demonstrates

"In the foregoing I have conceived of Judaism as a community of tradition. 
Both friend and foe, on the other hand, have often asserted that the Jews 
represent a race; that their characteristic behavior is the result of 
innate qualities transmitted by heredity from one generation to the next. 
This opinion gains weight from the fact that the Jews for thousands of years 
have predominantly married within their own group. Such a custom may indeed 
preserve a homogeneous race - if it existed originally; it cannot produce 
uniformity of the race - if there was originally a racial intermixture. 
The Jews, however, are beyond doubt a mixed race, just as are all other 
groups of our civilization. Sincere anthropologists are agreed on this point; 
assertions to the contrary all belong to the field of political propaganda 
and must be rated accordingly."
         
                        Albert Einstein
                        "Why Do They Hate The Jews"
                        From: Collier's Magazine, New York, Nov. 26, 1938.
                        also in
                        "Ideas and Opinions", by Albert Einstein
                        Bonanza Books, New York.

Clearly, Mr. Mcguire has been quoting Einstein out of context in order to 
promote his antisemitic ideas.
To get a complete view of Einstein's wonderful thoughts about judaism I 
would recommend reading the chapter entitled "On the Jewish People" in the 
above mentioned book.


Shaye Yungster.
                

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26196 soc.culture.europe:11380 soc.culture.greek:12476 soc.culture.soviet:12357 soc.culture.turkish:14888 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10677
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:09:37 GMT

ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

# There was no pole run over "The Israeli cultural elite" and
# there is no base to say they thing differentlt that the majority who
# objects Leibowits declaration that:

#   1. the majority of the Jews are Judeo-Nazis.
 
When did he say that?

#   5. we should kill the 1/4 milion sattlers.

An outright slander you should apologize for. He never said that.

I do not identify with many politicaly oriented statements Leibowitz
made, but you cannot misquote him in such a blatant manner.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: Boycotting American Cars
Keywords: Boycott, Cars
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:06:26 GMT

In article <C1H6Lu.D9E@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca> khater@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Issam Abu-Khater) writes:
>Salam to All,
>I am forwarding this call by Prof. M. I. Elmasry hopping that it will
>be of benefit for you:
>
>Please circulate.........
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Forwarded message:
>> From elmasry Tue Jan 26 13:46:45 1993
>> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:46:45 -0500
>> From: "M.I. Elmasry" <elmasry>
>> Message-Id: <9301261846.AA12582@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca>
>> To: khater
>> Subject: Boycott American Cars 
>> 
>>               D O  N O T  B U Y  A M E R I C A N  C A R S
>> 
>>               PROTEST U.S. DOUBLE-STANDARD FOREIGN POLICY
>> 
>> U.S. double-standard foreign policy in dealing with international problems is 
>> so unfair that it is a real threat to world peace. 
>> 
>> The U.S. is now the only superpower and it is manipulating the U.N. to its 
>> advantage. Now there are two types of U.N. resolutions: ones which are 
>> enforceable by the U.S. military (eg. regarding Iraq and Libya) and the others 
>> which are not (eg regarding Serbia and Israel). 
>> 
>> It is the time for peace loving people to protest this dangerous U.S. 
>> double-standard foreign policy by boycotting American products, especially
>> big-ticket items, eg. American cars. This will send the message to Washington
>> loud and clear. 
    
    Yes, I am sure that if a very small fraction of academics boycott
    American products, it will send the message loud and clear!


>> 
>> This is not a new approach to register your protest. To this day, most 
>> Japanese don't buy American cars because they still remember Heroshima and

   There is probably a Japanese quota on American cars. American products
   ( from McDonald's to Jeans) are extremely popular in Japan.

>> most Jews don't buy German cars because they still remember the Holocaust. 
>> 
>>                   L E T  U S  N O T  F O R G E T  ! ! 
>> 
>>               D O  N O T  B U Y  A M E R I C A N  C A R S 
>> 
>> 
>
>..........................End Forwarded Messege.........................
>Issam.

Ishay
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: White Paper 1937
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:45:58 CST

In article <2479@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne) writes:


	This "white paper" is better known as the Peel report,
	a mandatory reading for advocates of one state for
	two peoples.


Noam

> 
>    Chapter 5,  Arab proposals:
>    
>    58.  The Arab Higher Committee assured as that the 
>    welfare of the Jewish minority  would be safeguarded 
>    not only by specific provisions in the Treaty which 
>    would  accompany the grant of independence but also 
>    by the habitual toleration which Jewish  minorities have 
>    enjoyed in other Arab lands.  But it must be 
>    remembered that those  Jewish minorities elsewhere 
>    are relatively very small and that the Jewish minority 
>    in  Palestine is already regarded by the Arabs as too 
>    big.  On this point the following  questions put to the 
>    Mufti of Jerusalem and his replies should be noted:-
>    
>           Q.  Does His Eminence think that this country can 
>               assimilate and digest the 400,000 Jews now in the 
>               country?
>    
>           A.  No.
>    
>           Q.  Some of them would have to be removed by a 
>               process kindly or painful as the  case may be?
>    
>           A.  We must leave all this to the future.
>    
>    We are not questioning the sincerity or the humanity of 
>    the Mufti's intentions and those  of his colleagues; but 
>    we cannot forget what recently happened, despite 
>    treaty provisions  and explicit assurances, to the 
>    Assyrian minority in 'Iraq;  nor can we forget that the  
>    hatred of the Arab politician for the National Home has 
>    never been concealed and that it  has now permeated 
>    the Arab population as a whole. 
>    
>    Palestine Royal Commission 1937, Chap. V, para. 58, pp. 
>    140-141.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Be careful... The dirty plan...
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:29:52 GMT

In article <C1FKEG.601@imag.fr>, oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek) writes:
|> : 
|> : 2) Can you give the exact source and text of that speech, and when it
|> :    was made? If you will not answer, I will have to conclude you
|> :    invented this. I am waiting for your answer.
|>   Well, i never heard such a statement from Shamir, but i'm certain this idea
|>   exists, and it's quite supported by several religious guys. Asking for a proof ?.
|>   The map of "Eretz Israel" was posted to soc.culture.arabic by a Jew (*), and
|>   it extended from the Euphrat to the Nile. I have no idea about the popularity
|>   of such claims, but i wonder about the mental helth of those who believe in
|>   it. I believe Ariel Sharon has already given such a statement.

As far as I know, this concept of Israel extending to the Nile and Eupharates
is something that the Religious figures who are members of the Likude party
have called for. I beleive it has become part of the Likude party platform.

|> 
|>   As a side note, one of the sources of that claim is the conquest of Damascus
|>   by David. I've tried to check all the sources i found in the local library
|>   about the "parallel history", and none of the Aramian srouces tell about such
|>   a conquest. Does anyone know about a non-biblical reference about this 
|>   particular event ?.

The Israelites under david and solomon essentially had damascus and Hama under
their control via having those kings pay a yearly tribute. This was the norm
back then. However, they only controlled those kingdoms during the days of
david and solomon. Later on, the Assyrians took over around 900 BC.

A.Faris
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26412 talk.politics.soviet:10845 soc.culture.greek:12677 soc.culture.europe:11509 soc.culture.soviet:12517
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.history,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: writings on mount 5-dactylos
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 19:27:55 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C1J6K3.Et@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

> Yes, like "H O L L Y W O O D," only that the letters are bigger;  
> Together with a large Turkish flag painted on the ground, so that
> it can be seen from miles away.

Did you think that we would forget the victims of the Turkish Genocide?
With the full knowledge that the struggle for the Turkish territorial
demands are still in their initial stages, the Turkish and Kurdish people
will unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims
of the Turkish Genocide demand:

1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian 
dictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide;

2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and
Kurdish people;

3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for their
heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide;

4. that all world governments officially recognize the Turkish Genocide 
and Turkish territorial rights and refuse to succumb to all Armenian 
political pressure.

The awareness of the Turkish people of the necessity of solidarity in the
efforts to pursue the Turkish Cause is seen by the victims of the first 
genocide of the 20th century as a positive step. 


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                  (Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)
From: katzman@math.lsa.umich.edu (Mordechai Katzman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 28 Jan 1993 22:32:56 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan, Mathematics Department, Ann Arbor
Distribution: talk,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.math.lsa.umich.edu

In article <4674@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <6214@gumby.Altos.COM> drori@altos.COM (Ghiora Drori) writes:
>>In article <4669@bimacs.BITNET# ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>>Gideon Erlich is a well known right wing fanatic who's
>> opinions about Jews are the same as those of Rehavam Zevi.
>>Gigi
>
>I can hardly imagine the base of that Gigi for his strange statement.

You dont???
Hey- maybe you should *read* what you post from time to time


>WE SHALL OVERCOME    gideon ehrlich   ERETZ YISRAEL
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:01:54 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1993Jan23.013731.26655@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp
(Adam Shostack) writes:
.....
>       He's still alive, and there's a bit of a stink in Israel, since
>hes just been voted the Israel prize.  Quite a few people who remember
>his "judeonazi" comments are outraged.

So are the persons remember him calling the people to take weapons and
   to get rid of the ( 1/4 milion) Jewish settlers;
Calling the soldiers to use their weapons in order to get rid of the
  Israeli government;
calling person to refuse drafting to the Israeli army.

his declaration on the Israeli TV ( last tuesday evening) that Israel
holds its Arabian population in concentration camps.

And his last ( i didn't herred News for the last several hours) that
the Israeli units fighting the murderers of the PLO and the Hamass
should be considere as murderers gungs just as the Hamas murdering teams.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26033 soc.culture.greek:12381 soc.history:10892
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:21:48 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <1993Jan23.200416.20708@fuug.fi> an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI) writes:

Just testing
:-)
Ilyess Bdira
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26210 talk.politics.soviet:10695 soc.history:10939
From: goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring)
Subject: Re: maimonides
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:17:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan21.1777.23046@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
...
>In the meantime, will one or two Maimonides experts please focus
>on this single passage (below) from Epistle to Yemen and
>explicate it for me? What I find troublesome is the notion that
>"the issue of Ishmael" will not be favored by God. We also see
>references to "the offspring of Isaac" and "the illustrious
>scions of Isaac." The language and imagery is clearly genetic and
>biological.

    Clearly, Maimonides knew genetics and used genetically-
    coded language to express their hatred toward the Arabs.

>
>Are users here arguing that the language is ONLY symbolic? Please
>try to convince me that this is the case.
...


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Follow the money" Deep Throat
Disclaimer: Other opinions are mine only
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: A Wee Bit Too Late
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:47:07 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute

Appeared in Ha'aretz, ca. January 20, 1993.  Reprinted in Israel
Shelanu, an American Hebrew Language weekly, January 22, 1993.

Excerpt from

A BEAUTIFUL DREAM

By B. Michael

. . .

One should not become despondent.  This very day, another dream is
becoming a reality. Right before our very eyes, more and more people
who just yesterday were members of the extreme center are rising to
demand an immediate withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.  A unilateral
withdrawal, a multilateral withdrawal, a slow one, a quick one, a
staged one, total, partial -- they couldn't care less.  Just get out
of there, and fast.  Suddenly they are sounding like the worst of the
leftists.  Who would ever have believed.

But perhaps we should despair after all.  Because, as is their wont,
they have come to see the light (or darkness) far far too late. They
have discovered the joy of withdrawal now that it is quite clear that
withdrawal alone will no longer suffice -- or to use more contemporary
terms, they discovered the worthlessness of the occupation of the Gaza
Strip not before Hamas's growth, but rather at a point when its power
is reaching its peak.

These people are the same ones who will suddenly discover the value of
negotiating with the PLO immediately after it becomes clear that the
PLO has completely lost any support among the Palestinian population,
and the only partner left for talks can be Hamas.  In a few years it
will dawn on them -- just a wee bit too late -- that Israel must
withdraw immediately from the West Bank, due to the unfortunate fact
that it will have become totally uncontrollable.  A couple of months
after negotiations with the Syrians reach the point of final breakdown,
these people will discover that there really is no need to maintain
our hold on the Golan Heights, and that occupying them is more costly
than leaving them.  And who knows?  Perhaps a time will come when we
find these people screaming that Jerusalem must be abandoned --
immediately! -- since life in the capital has become intolerable.

And when we all find ourselves, as usual, both suffering the lasting
consequences of our folly and being kicked out of the city, they will
blame the left (or the right, or the media, or whomever they happen to
dislike).  And all this evil could easily have been avoided . . . if
only the late Yigal Allon were able to control himself on that
Passover night in Hebron, 25 years ago [when the first settlement was
established -- YA].  If only the government had had the sense to
strangle the messianic genie when it was still in the bottle.  If only
the government had had the sense to realize that one who hands over
his pick and shovel, his tools and his fields and factories and dirty
linen to another, keeping in his own hands only the handcuffs and the
whip, must loses his own independence in the deal.
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
arens@isi.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: talk
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:32:11 GMT

kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:

[Many excellent answers to McGuire's hateful diatribe deleted]
 
# Wayne, what do you want from us?  Do you want us to totally change all
# aspects of Judaism so that more people will want to convert?
# Christianity did this, didn't it?   Have you noticed that Judaism is the
# oldest monotheistic religion?  Have you noticed that we have survived
# attrocities that no other group has been subjected to?  We must be doing
# something right, we're still here.  
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And that, Karen, is what makes Wayne's blood boil: that we are still here.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aberman@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Berman)
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: talk
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:10:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.1777.23089@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists do not constitute ethnic
>groups. Islam, Christianity and Buddhism are universalist belief
>systems which direct themselves to the human race at large
>without regard to ethnicity.
...
>If Judaism is a modern universalistic religion that transcends
>ethnicity, this is clearly not a message that has gotten through
>to the world, as judged by its eagerness to convert.

Here you clearly are missing one of the most fundamental precepts
of the Jewish culture/religion/society--  It is not an *expansionist*
belief system.

Simply put, we don't go around trying to convert everyone because
we're not supposed to.  Furthermore, it is entirely possible
to be "just" whether or not you're Jewish.  Jewishness is not
a prerequisite for divine favor, thus there is no moral
need to convert everyone.  It is a covenant between a certain
group of people and G-d.

Compare this with, say, Christianity, where for most of it's history,
Christians have tried to convert everyone in sight, many times 
forcibly.  Furthermore, for most of it's history, it was NOT
possible according to Christian beliefs, to be "just" and not
be a Christian.


You should note that there are other systems similar to Judaism which
aren't interested in converting everyone.  The Druse have their own
religion, and do not believe in conversion.  They are a religious,
ethnic and nationalistic homogeneous group as well, much more so than
Jews are. 

It seems to me that you are turning a virtue into a vice. And
everything that follows from that in your essays is thusly
problematic.


By the way, for the record I follow Rabbi Aden Steinzaltz's
description of Judaism as a family.


Andrew P. Berman

-- 
Andrew P. Berman           |  "I have no idea what White House statement was
Dept. of Computer Science  |  was issued, but I stand by it 100 percent"
University of Washington   |    -- Richard Darman
aberman@cs.washington.edu  |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman)
Subject: Re: Spontaneous Violence Will Not Work!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 01:48:11 GMT

an3205@anon.penet.fi (ROI) writes:

>you can only bring them to their senses
>by cutting off their major financial support;
>that will bring them back to the table in earnest;

>use video-cameras and non-violent acts of civil disobediance
>designed to provoke an ill-considered, brutal reaction;

>can you get hit without hitting back?
>can you do it for the cameras?
>are you even listening?

It seems to me this can be applied to both the Israelis and
to the Palestinians just about equally.

--
msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu				GO CUBS!!!

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26065 talk.politics.soviet:10657 soc.culture.europe:11327 soc.culture.greek:12393 soc.history:10897
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: leibowitz
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Distribution: talk,world
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:49:31 CST

In article <23273@venera.isi.edu>, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

 
> Not only is he not dead, he was just this week nominated for the Israel
> Prize, a high honor to be bestowed upon him by the Israeli state.  


	A honor long overdue.

I
> suppose Mr. Backon should hurry and inform the Isareli government that
> Leibowitz is nothing but a maker of bad coffee rendered mentally
> unbalanced by deaths in his family.


	Some people just wouldn't let the good news pass without
	taking the opportunity to remind us that this is still, 
	afterall, tpm.


Noam


> --
> Yigal Arens
> USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
> arens@isi.edu

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:26413 talk.politics.soviet:10847 soc.history:11059 soc.culture.soviet:12519 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1399 soc.culture.croatia:527 soc.culture.turkish:15183