HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bjackson@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Ben Jackson)
Subject: Re: dirty tricks
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:30:17 GMT

In article <15671@umd5.umd.edu> malmberg@umsa8.umd.edu (Norwin Malmberg) writes:
>vijay@cdsun.fnal.gov (Vijay Gurbani) writes:
>
>>I remember back in college, this was a _great_ way to get cheap thrills:
>[Snip]
[meta-snip]
>On the early versions of suntools (and, for all I know, the current version),
>there is an escape sequence which "iconifies" the window.  Since each 
>window is attached to a pseudo-terminal, it is possible to write the
>escape sequence and iconify the window from another terminal...

There is a popular file transfer protocol called Z-Modem (unix people know it
in the form sz, rz).  It has this nifty feature that you can enable on most
PC term programs which will automatically detect the upload start sequence
and start a download for you.  If you know someone is on such a term, you
can write to them and start an upload, which will cause their term program
to start downloading for no apparent reason. :)

\\_//
 o o    Ben Jackson
< ^ >   bjackson@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
 \~/         ...@glia.biostr.washington.edu
  V     "Natural laws have no pity."
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:53:45 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <27SEP199220270265@elroy.uh.edu> st1ns@elroy.uh.edu
(Ault, Russell W.) writes:

>ObNonSequitur:
>
>Never marry a woman who already has cats.

ObIrrelevantFollowup:

I did and got away with it.  But I already had cats too.

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"He's always on the wrong side of every door."  -- T.S. Eliot

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: That darn Bug story
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:06:48 GMT

In article <7410@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>   loader had the option to generate an absolute, pre-linked binary from
>   the objects and libraries, nearly nobody did that, because the difference
>   was could not be noticed.  (And that with the equivalent of 180 kB of
>   memory for interactive use.)  When I first did use Unix on a Vax (BSD on
>   a 780) I was apalled at the slowness of the linking process.  And still am
>   in fact.

Boy, whatta wimp. You should have tried TKB on RSX-11. On the same machine
where an overlaid program linked in 20-30 seconds under UNIX, a simple
"hello world" program took minutes. TKB provided so many linking and loading
options, including function-by-function specification of overlays, that it's
in the running with the OS/360 linker for complexity... but boy was it SLOW!
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
  'U`
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: That darn Bug story
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:16:36 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <26322@castle.ed.ac.uk> ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson) writes:
> Edinburgh's EMAS (1972 - 1992, R.I.P.) did something like this.  All
> references were indirect via a table built at load-and-run time.

Oh, while I'm sitting here: the Amiga dynamically links all binaries on
loading. That way they all share a common address space. It doesn't do
dynamic linking for libraries, though, since they're opened explicitly at
run-time and may be flushed from memory if nobody happens to have them
open at a particular time.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Segodnja volka obnimal?"
  'U`  
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Oldest ARPAnet messages?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 22:30:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.194830.8718@sctc.com> smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith) writes:
>There are several 'firsts' being asked about, I think. The 'first'
>electronic mail would have been between users on a single timeshared
>host (not to say batch users _couldn't_ use mail, just that it
>wasn't consistent with the model of computer usage.

Well the place to ask would be the NIC (Network Information Center).
I suspect that the longest retained messages would be RFC (Request for
Comments).  Actually, now that I think about it, Doug Engelbart to this
day retains most of his ARC memos, and they date back to the early 60s
(gee, I was just a lad) when he was SRI.  Frank Kuo is also there and
he did the ALOHAnet even before the ARPAnet, but I can't remember any
email experiments in papers.  Email had some rather dubious aspects
about it back then.  They had no respect like text editors back in the
early 70s.  I think that some of the old RFCs didn't even appear on
computers (maybe some Wang word processors), hell, disk space was expensive
in those days, you didn't want people's blabberings filling your disk.
I kept a piece of VMS email dated 1982 here at Ames when I first got here
entitled "What is a workstation?" when I was trying to get a Xerox Dorado
here.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
			Wulf et al, The Design of an Optimizing Compiler
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: scott@ryptyde.cts.com (Scott McClure)
Subject: Old Iron at home stories?
Organization: Ryptyde TimeSharing, San Diego, CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:50:14 GMT
Keywords: old iron, home, heat, power bills


Hi all,
	There was a thread a while back about have an "Old Iron" at home.
Did anyone keep any of those stories?  I'd love to read some of them again.

I just got an old (well, 6 years in this business *is* old!  8-)) Sun 3/260.
It's a wonderful machine:  looks more like a Real Computer(tm) than a PC,
sucks so much power that I can't have more than a few small items on the same
circuit without popping the breaker (no thanks to the dickweeds who decided
to put *all* the upstairs outlets on one 15 amp circuit), generates enough heat 
to cook food, and has a bad fan that sounds like it's grinding rocks.

Getting it up the stairs was fun too...  the disk pedestal (with two 8" SMD 
drives, 280Mb each) must have platters made of cement.

Sure, my 386/33 running Xenix across the room is just as fast, draws less power,
takes up far less space, makes less noise, etc. but it just doesn't have the
same "feel." 

Anyone have any good stories they'd like to share?


Scott

-- 
INTERNET:  scott@ryptyde.cts.com                     | "Nuke the homeless gay
ARPANET:   ryptyde!scott@nosc.mil                    |  baby whales for Jesus!"
UUCP:      {crash, nosc}!ryptyde!scott               |    - bumper sticker
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.travel
From: J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au (John Newman)
Subject: Re: Floor numbering variations
Keywords: Hotel floors
Organization: Computing Centre, Curtin University, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:39:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep24> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) 
writes:

>From a thread in alt.folklore.computers about "floor 0" and similar
>topics, and the way that North Americans count the ground floor as 1
>while many other countries count the floor above as 1.
>
>> > In our EE building, there is a basement, subbasement, and two floors
>> > above the ground floor, numbered 2 and 3.
>> > 
>> > The ground floor has a ground symbol.  
>> 
>> So you have no floor called '1'? Curiouser and Curiouser!


A prominent tourist hotel in Perth (built by Alan Bond for the
Americas Cup) also has a curious arrangement for floor numbering:
There are no floors 2 to 9. So it has:

  20
  .
  .
  10
  M  (Mezzanine)
  L  (Lobby)
  B  (Basement)


Presumably interstate and overseas guests think they are
being offered higher rooms (with better views).


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ John Newman              J.Newman@icarus.curtin.edu.au /
/ Computing Centre,           "There is less to this     \
\ Curtin University,            than meets the eye."     /                         
/ Perth, Western Australia     - Tallulah Bankhead       \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Subject: Re: Oldest ARPAnet messages?
Reply-To: rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky)
Organization: Snake Island Research Inc, Toronto
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 15:43:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.194830.8718@sctc.com> smith@sctc.com (Rick Smith) writes:
>There are several 'firsts' being asked about, I think. The 'first'
>electronic mail would have been between users on a single timeshared
>host (not to say batch users _couldn't_ use mail, just that it
>wasn't consistent with the model of computer usage.

When I joined I.P. Sharp Associates in the beginning of 1971, the company
was already using email on a regular basis for all corporate, and
some customer traffic. 

The system was written in APL, and its descendants are still in use 
today at roughly 50 sites around the world. One of them, a large NYC
bank, has a machine dedicated to email service, supporting a 
concurrent user load of over 1200 people. And you thought APL was 
dead/slow/other bad words...

Bob





Robert Bernecky      rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.com  bernecky@itrchq.itrc.on.ca 
Snake Island Research Inc  (416) 368-6944   FAX: (416) 360-4694 
18 Fifth Street, Ward's Island
Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9 
Canada
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Total erasure of hard drive data??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:13:46 GMT

In article <BvGL30.6sv@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
}In article <1992Sep30.204200.15817@javelin.sim.es.com> gfowler@javelin.sim.es.com (Gary Fowler) writes:
}
}>I once worked with a guy who went through a lot of trouble to write a program
}>in C to switch a vt220 terminal to pass-through print mode, output a text file,
}>then switch the terminal back to normal mode.  When I told him that it could be
}>done in a 6 line shell script, and in fact it already had been done and was
}>available on the system, he didn't seem to care.  I guess he just liked wasted
}>effort.
}
}Maybe he just liked solving problems.  Who's the real "bozo" here?

The one who wasted lots of time coming up with a bad solution to a
non-existant problem.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: sarr@sinshan.citi.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson)
Subject: Re: IBM 3021 Data Cell
Organization: University of Michigan, CITI
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:27:02 GMT

In 1970 the intro Fortran (it was a long time ago, we were young and
foolish) decided to put the course files for the final project on the
data cell because nobody would spring enough funny money for space on
the real disks.  300 students running batch jobs with no debugging
tools and not much skill proceeded to put the beast thru its paces at
a mad rate trying to get their projects done.  MTBF dropped to about 8
hours, as I recall.
(Sarr Blumson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: stirling@ozrout.uucp (Stirling Westrup)
Subject: Re: Hacking too long!
Organization: Andre P. Ozrout
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:39:38 GMT


You know, I always wondered if I wasn't a real hacker, since none of the
hacking-too-long incidences had ever happened to me.  Well, now one has.
Last evening, while cleaning up my desk, waiting for one stage of a large
make to finish, I managed to stab myself under my thumbnail on a sharp
piece of sheet metal.  The sheet metal is an integral part of my desk, and
was most likely put there to serve exactly the purpose it was serviing, ie.
maiming me.  Anyway, in intense pain, and with blood spurting out of my
thumb, I started to make a dash for the bathroom, to find something to bind
my wounds with.  After a few steps I stopped, went back and hit RETURN on
my terminal, so that the next stage of the make could progress while I was
bleeding to death in the bathroom.  Its a bad sign folks, even when in
pain, I do my best to multitask...


-- 
||    BUNGEE SIDEWAYS!                              o   )))
||                                                 /-- ///
|P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\_  \\\      __ -_
||    stirling@ozrout.uucp                                 ((( (_)T(_)
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (jeff zeitlin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: triviality: (was: re: the need ...)
Date: 26 Sep 92 09:34:12 GMT
Reply-To: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Executive Networks Information


  ::>z    Subject: TRIVIALITY: (was: Re: The need ...)

JB::>   Nope.  But I *have* seen a language description for PATHETIC.
  ::>   Anybody else seen it?  Enough demand, and I'll post a copy.

  !! Please!  I *LOVE* strange languages!

  J/
  jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
  ==================================================================
  Anything I say in this or any communication to this or any medium
  is strictly my own non-authoritative opinion, unless otherwise
  explicitly noted.  Except for myself, or where explicitly noted
  otherwise, I do not speak for any individual or organization.
  ==================================================================

 * OLX 2.2 * PAS_AL, BASI_, & _OBOL...  C fills all the gaps!
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: thoughts
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:54:13 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

In article <1992Sep28.337.13368@execnet> jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
(jeff zeitlin) writes:

>  Incidentally, in Manhattan, West 12th Street crosses West 12th
>  Street.  I still haven't figured that one out...

     Here in Port Coquitlam, Eastern Drive and Western Drive go
up opposite sides of Mary Hill.  They meet at the top; a street
sign proclaims the corner of Eastern and Western.

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
East is east and west is west and the twain is on the twacks.
From: mute@wpi.WPI.EDU (I hear the voices dreaming...)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Kaypro 88?
Date: 4 Oct 1992 21:46:24 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


This summer, I spent some time doing a bit of computer work for a
friend of the family who collects and uses Kaypro "portable"
computers. They're built like tanks. I was impressed.

Now- one of his machines was very strange. It was a Kaypro 88, the
last of the Kaypro suitcase-sized computer line. From the outside, it
looks like a normal Kaypro, but with a little plastic button-sticker
saying "88." 

On the inside, it was different... In the socket that would have held
the Z80 on a "normal" Kaypro, there had been inserted a daughterboard
that held the expected Z80. It also had a ribbon cable that led from
the daughterboard to a second auxiliary board mounted on an L-shaped
piece of metal bolted to the side of the floppy mounts. This board
contained an Intel 8088 and what appeared to be several banks of
memory.

Does anyone have any information on this machine? My hypothesis is
that it could run both CP/M, using the Z80, and MS-DOS, using the
8088. Am I correct on this? We couldn't get it to boot using the
Kaypro 2 or 4 system disks.

Josh Brandt

-- 
                We weren't stupid enough to be businessmen,
            and we weren't pretty enough to be David Bowie.   Devo
                                         - mute@wpi.wpi.edu   Joshua Brandt -
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been reading news too long when...
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:20:24 GMT
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <4370@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us> aki@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
> ... when the 'N'-key's imprint of N starts to fade away...

Or the "k" key...
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Segodnja volka obnimal?"
  'U`  
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: How *NOT* to do backups
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 01:44:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.180006.18448@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
> 1) Replace the kernel,
> 	Need a multithreaded kernel such as MACH or a microkernel.

It's nice that UNIX is designed such that it's easy to replace the entire
kernel and break virtually no programs. That abstraction is the best part
of UNIX. Betcha can't do it with VMS.

> 2) Replace the filestore,

Which one? V7, SV, UFS, ...?

> 	NFS [...]

Oh, that's not even a UNIX file system. It's a mess. NFA on OpenNET is much
better (better than Vice, too).

> 3) Replace the shell,

Which one? V6 shell, psh, csh, ksh, rc, tclsh, ...?

The shell is just a program.

> Question: If you take an axe and replace the head, then later replace the
> shaft, is it still the same Axe?

It's still an axe, as opposed to an adze, machete, or chainsaw.

Frankly, I don't care if it's the same axe, so long as I can still chop the
same wood.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
  'U`  
Kunt u mij de weg wijzen naar het dichtsbijzijnde intelligente zoogdier?
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker
Date: 2 Oct 1992 18:55:42 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


One of my prized possessions (well, I think it's still here somewhere) is
a bumper sticker that says

     HONK IF YOU LOVE JCL

-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pratta@rpi.edu (Anthony Edward Prattico)
Subject: Re: Floors that don't start at zero!
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
	<OLDMAN.92Sep23141634@titan.ucc.umass.edu>
	<19tn4qINN223@huon.itd.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:07:52 GMT

   In article <OLDMAN.92Sep23141634@titan.ucc.umass.edu>, oldman@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Tig Stone) writes:
   > 	At Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, the George M. Low Center
   > for Industrial Innovation has no 1st floor.  You enter the building on
   > the 3rd floor and can go down to the 2nd floor.  But no first.  I
   > believe this is because it's attached to the Darrin Communication
   > Center (which does have a first floor) and they wanted the #'s to
   > correspond.

It does have a first floor. The high bay is on the first floor. Actually I
believe that the first floor in the CII main building is what would be the
basement mechanical room in other buildings.
From: ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: That darn Bug story
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:06:33 GMT

ercm20@festival.ed.ac.uk (Sam Wilson) cites:
> "The IMP Language and Compiler", P.D.Stephens, Computer Journal
> vol 17 no 3 p216

Just to raise a hackle or two and cross threads I'll type in a paragraph
from that article, from a section headed "On systme programming in IMP". 
This is from 1974 remember. 

   "The EMAS programmers who had previous experience of high-level
    languages adapted easily to system programming in IMP.  They
    produced compact, highly structured programs which were easy to
    maintain or amend despite defects in commentary and/or
    documentation.  They seldom worried about the efficiency of object
    code produced by the compiler, but their programs generally
    performed well.  This group included the most productive programmers
    working on the project.  Programmers with a background of assembly
    languages were less happy with IMP and seldom used its more advanced
    features such as recursion.  They produced well commented and
    documented programs that nevertheless proved difficult to maintain
    since they lacked structure.  This group worried about the
    efficiency of object code produced by the compiler to the extent of
    examining the listings of code produced, yet their programs were
    often large in size and slow in execution.  Some of the least
    productive programmers were included in this group."

Sam
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: rogers@rosencrantz.osf.org (Andrew Rogers)
Subject: Re: Bumper sticker
Organization: HICAM/OSD
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:39:28 GMT

One of our now-departed consultants had the following bumper stickers made:

		   I BREAK FOR
		INTERRUPT VECTORS

Unfortunately, whoever did them spelled "break" as "brake"...

AWR
old fart at play
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Old Iron at home stories?
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:06:24 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Oct2.135014.3463@ryptyde.cts.com>,
by scott@ryptyde.cts.com (Scott McClure):
> 
> Hi all,
> 	There was a thread a while back about have an "Old Iron" at home.
> Did anyone keep any of those stories?  I'd love to read some of them again.
> 
> I just got an old (well, 6 years in this business *is* old!  8-)) Sun 3/260.

A real spring chicken!  Two days ago, I got an old PDP-8, built in late
1965 or early 1966 and last used sometime not too long after 1973 (that's
the date on the newest of the paper tapes that came with the machine).
According to the original owner, it was working when last plugged in, but
it's been moved a few times since, it's very dusty, and we have to rebuild
the cable to the TTY (ASR 33) before we can try it out.

The newsgroup alt.sys.pdp8 has been created in the last month to bring
collectors of real old iron together; I just posted the first trial run
of a FAQ for the group.  If your USENET feed doesn't have this group,
complain to the administrators on your news feed path!

(I also have a PDP-8/E and a PDP-8/F at home; the F is nearly in working
order, I suspect.  Those are young machines; both were built at around the
time the classic -8 was retired from service, the 8-E in 1974 and the 8-F
in 1975, if I remember the details correctly.  Both of those young machines
are physically far smaller than the -8, with room for peripherals in the
same relay rack as the CPU, and both are huge -- with 16K of memory each
instead of the classic -8 with only 4K.)

I agree that Sun I and Sun II machines are nearly collectable; so is the
IBM RT I'm using right now, but they just aren't in the same class as
"old iron".
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Renumbering BASIC programs (was Re: Branching in HLL vs. Assembler)
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:54:44 GMT
Organization: IUPUI

In article <1992Sep19.045941.25377@jpradley.jpr.com>
rodd@jpradley.jpr.com (Rod Dorman) writes:
 
>
>1000 LET N=VAL("A*1") is an even shorter way to get the wrong answer
 
1000 LET N=1           is an even shorter way to get the wrong answer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers