From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Hunters: Legitimate concern?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:01:33 GMT

In <Brxwpr.A32@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:

>From article <viking.712039653@vincent1.iastate.edu>, by viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson):
>ds> If they can do it, it's doesn't matter a whole lot what I think, 
>ds> does it?  If their morals show it's fine, it's fine.  Morals go 
>ds> to those who can enforce them.  I'm sure the blacks we enslaved 
>ds> in years gone by didn't like it, but until popular opinion 
>ds> decided it was unethical, it was an ethical thing to do.

>Has it occurred to you that an action might be ethical or unethical
>regardless of the power of the person performing the action?

	Yes, it has.  I've discovered that there is no absolute morality
or ethical code.  Like the vast majority of criminals who cry their
innocence after being convicted, the person being "picked on" is the
first to cry morality, while effectively this action must be moral for
it to be commonplace.  Think of it this way, Russ: you belive hunting
to be unethical, but you're in the minority.  It's no wonder you wish
to base your argument on ethical grounds.  Those of us with the guns
simply disagree with your ethical view, and it remains for you to
change our minds if you want hunting to be unethical.  For the moment,
hunting is ethical and quite enjoyable.

>Would rape or slavery truly be ethical if a sufficient number of 
>persons in power declared such activities to be acceptable?

	Yes.  Read your history.

>Would the victims not suffer just the same?

	That depends on the slave-owner and the society of the time.

>Or would their suffering not matter?

	Now you're catching on!  If it doesn't matter to those who are
in control of the slaves, it doesn't matter.  Period.  You're a slave?  Too
bad, but those are the breaks.  I'm certain every traitor executed thinks
it's immoral to do so, but I don't particularly care what traitors think.
Get the idea now, Russ?

>ds> Too bad, Russ, but I enjoy hunting, and if aliens ever came down 
>ds> are started hunting me I think I'd enjoy the challenge.  In any 
>ds> event, my opinions on the matter wouldn't make a difference, and 
>ds> I don't think they need to.  For that matter, the shouldn't.  

>Why should your opinions not make a difference?  In evaluating 
>the consequences of an ethical action, do you really think it's 
>inappropriate to stop and consider the thoughts and feelings of 
>the victims?

	Of course not, but I said they shouldn't make a difference,
and that they most likely wouldn't anyway to the alien.  If you enjoy
being beaten, should I consider your liking of this action when I
dislike it?  No, I'll go with what I think is best to do.  That you
might disagree with my actions makes little difference to me -- I'm a
big boy now, and I'll keep my own counsel on what is an ethical action.
The alien, I'm sure, has already thought the action out and found it
ethical to him in much the same manner.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >