HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 13:34:02 GMT

In article <28153@dog.ee.lbl.gov> TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>You propose rmgrouping a group because as of now in your newsreader
>it has no posts?  Sheesh.  BTW, might you consider posting to 
>rec.arts.movies also to let them know what you're up to?  I'd expect
>that some folks there may have input since I would assume that
>they helped bring it about in the first place.  Maybe we ought to
>get rid of alt.cult.movies too since that's redundant too huh?

Sorry to inject some facts into this discussion, but it should be pointed
out that rec.arts.cinema is a moderated group, and that no posts seem to
have appeared for quite some time.  I posted to it a month ago and my post
never appeared.  I tried again today; we'll see what happens.  

I wonder how many moderated groups are out there where the moderator has
just given up, left, lost net access, etc. etc. etc?  There've been
several threads over the past year saying "this group is moderated, but my
posts never appear, in fact, NO posts every appear, what can we do?"  And
nothing ever gets done because, in fact, this seems to bring up some
problems with unmoderating newsgroups that sound mystic and arcane to all
and sundry.  I can't recall any moderated newsgroup that's lost its
moderator emerging from the discussion with a new moderator or with
unmoderated status.

If memory serves, there is no way to "unmoderate" a newsgroup effectively,
since some news software programs out there won't ever acknowledge it and
CAN'T acknowledge it.  David Lawrence has said that basically what you
have to do is rmgroup the group and then make a new one if people want. 
In this case, I think that might be well advised.  

The moderator of rec.arts.cinema, whoever he or she is, seems to have
vanished.  Once people get back on the net from break and things pick up
here, I think it might be a good idea to find out exactly where he or she
went and, if it turns out that the moderator really has given up, rmgroup
rec.arts.cinema.  Then, if people really *do* want a moderated
movie/cinema newsgroup, they can go through the regular discussion and
voting process any new group would follow.
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:04:46 GMT

In article <BzoFr6.5Bw@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
> In article <id.OF0W.KA@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> >(me, I always thought conservative meant, you know, conservative. Like the
> > Nature Conservancy, and the conservation movement... but if they want to
> > redefine this word I'll happily let them join the progressives in their
> > mutilation of the language)

> Oh, come ON, Peter, don't be such a bleeding rocket scientist.  Assuming
> you live in the USA, where has your mind BEEN for the last twelve years
> while we've had Presidents in the White House who only used the word
> "conservative" about every fifth word, and used it to mean
> right-of-the-political-center?  

Well, prior to 1980 I was in Australia, where the right-of-center party
is called the "Liberal Party", the left-of-center party is the "Labor Party",
and there are half a dozen other parties with significant voting blocs. You
know, a vibrant parlimentary democracy where you don't have to guess whether
"conservative" means "pro business", "religious fundamentalist", "anti
communist", "individual rights", "market economy", "small government",
"states rights", or something else. Or, for that matter whether "liberal"
means "pop ecology", "socialist", "individual rights", "managed economy",
"federalist", or something else.

> Seems to me that *you're* the one who needs to get in line here and stop
> trying to redefine a word that has a clear meaning to most people.

But, you see, it doesn't.

In any case, if you're willing to let socialists label themselves
"progressives" why aren't you willing to let reactionaries label
themselves "conservatives"?
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic
From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:47:46 GMT

Hello,

jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>I'm sorry, but according to Peter da Silva, the word "Conservative" is
>used almost everywhere to mean ecological-conservation etcetera, not a
>political viewpoint.  Unfortunately, this means that you can't possibly be
>right in stating that "conservative" has a political meaning in England
>and Scotland.

Do you really believe what you wrote, or are do you try to be sophistic?
In the latter case I didn't get the point.
In the first case, maybe you should have a cup of reality :-)

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr

-- 
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de 
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. 0631/205-3391                    |           D-6750 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:52:23 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu's message of 20 Dec 92 22:35:03 GMTLines: 17

In <1992Dec20.223503.4350@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu writes:

> No, the problem with automoderation is that it's a technical
> nightmare. It would require all postings to soc.motss to be channeled
> through one machine: the moderator's. You've just turned the random
> graph of Usenet into a hierarchical tree. If that one machine is down,
> or a piece of the network is gone, then parts of motss aren't propagated.

Forgive me for jumping into a discussion I haven't been following, but I don't
think this is correct.  For example, soc.feminism is moderated by a team of 3
moderators.  If one is gone, on vacation, too busy, or equipment impaired, the
other 2 just take over until the problem is solved.  I'm not sure how this is
accomplished technically, but it probably wouldn't be hard to find out.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.sport.rowing
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:45:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.150747.3379@ra.msstate.edu>, dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
> In article <1gjc0nINN2q1@news.UU.NET> gumby@spock.uucp (Danny Richman) writes:
> >Proposed Newsgroup: rec.sport.rowing
> >
> >The proposed newsgroup, rec.sport.rowing, would open up a new frontier for 
> >rowers around the world.  Currently the only newsgroup which rowers are only 
> >slightly welcome to is rec.boats.paddle.  Rowing is completely unrelated to 
> >canoeing, kayaking, or river rafting, and the discussions which take place 
> >there are of no interest to rowers.
> 
> I do think rec.sport.rowing is a good idea. I would beg to differ over the
> assertion that "rowing is completely unrealted to canoeing, kayaking..." 
	[deletia] 
> In fact, the sport of flatwater canoe or kayak racing is probably more
> closely related to crew than it is to whitewater kayaking. I think that
> the new rowing newsgroup should make room for flatwater racers whether
> they use a paddle or oar.

This is certainly true;  after all, as a whitewater rafter (who rows
an oared boat) I expect to stay in rec.boats.paddle rather than 
rec.sport.rowing.  But I will not quibble with the name -- although it
might make more sense to have a rec.boats.{flatwater|whitewater} or
some such, I think that the rec.sport.rowing name implies crew and
other racing events.  And rec.boats.paddle has never razzed me for
using oars on my raft!

-- 
/\    "I'm only a human girl person.  I ain't always perfect."--Rambling Rose
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:55:22 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <1992Dec17.230703.24541@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
> swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
> >Thus, I stand by the statement - *you* are responsible, not anyone else.
> 
> *poing*

Awwwwwww, isn't that cute. "Strawman" has been replaced by *poing* in
Dave's vocabulary. Pretty soon he'll be using whole sentences. 
-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: what happened to rec.arts.erotica??
Date: 31 Dec 92 11:28:21 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <1992Dec30.185248.12309@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>In <725728012snz@chaz.demon.co.uk> Ashley@chaz.demon.co.uk (Charles Ashley) writes:
>
>>Is <rec.arts.erotica> still in existence?  Has it been renamed?  I haven't
>>any news from this group for along time (but i'm getting news from all 
>>other groups).
>
>rec.arts.erotica has been very quiet. A few months ago some people
>complained that the moderator was a) too slow to approved submitted
>articles, b) too strict about content, and c) didn't answer email promptly
>either. Nyah.
>
>Anyway, the result of the complaints was the creation of alt.sex.stories
>(which is mostly noise and has little worthwhile content) and an
>announcement by Evan that he would step down as moderator in favor of
>someone else (whose name escapes me at the moment).
>
>Perhaps the new moderator has no submissions now that alt.sex.stories is
>so popular?

Did it ever really get a new moderator?  I posted a test submission a
while back and IT never appeared.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24837 soc.motss:53475
From: thom@agora.rain.com (Thom Gandet)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:17:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bzo5A0.2J1
Organization: Open Communications Forum


    Good idea.  I, too, can't wade through the enormous volume of soc.motss
without either incurring an enormous phone bill or dry, scarlet red eyes
for which Murine does nothing.  Don't know if I agree ba.motss is higher
quality.  90% of EVERYTHING is crap, including what I do/say/etc.; recog-
nition of this is the attainment of nirvana.  :-)
    Happy holidays to you.


-- 
Thom Gandet                         |            
Vancouver, WA 98664-1522            |                     
(206) 737-7680 (home)               |       This Area Under
(206) 737-7680 (office)             |         Construction          
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
From: kepley@cs.unca.edu (Brad Kepley)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 04:05:43 GMT

>Oh bullshit....Conservative changes meaning every generation

Now that *is* bullshit.  Republicans and Democrats change from Liberal
to Conservative every generation, but I don't know any Conservative who 
wouldn't immediately feel warmth for Burke and  concern about Burke's
concerns.  Sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about.  
You don't like using "Liberals" and "Conservatives" to describe people, 
therefore you disparage those terms.  But they are real things.  I think
we do need a "Conservative" group of some kind so we can educate people
about the meaning of the term.


Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Digital Transmission Systems, Duluth, GA.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:13:11 GMT

In article <EMCGUIRE.92Dec17092630@fuller.intellection.com> emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:
>I think the way to avoid this is to agree in advance on some objective
>metrics.  I'm unsure what metrics to use, but there are some numbers
>floating around which /may/ fit the bill.
>
>For example, the UUNET news statistics include the number of sites
>where at least one person posted an article within the last two weeks
>(25821 in the December 9 article).  It's not so important that we have
>an accurate count of netnews sites as that we have a factor in the
>voting rule which reflects the growth of netnews.  The question
>remaining is what constant multiplier should be used with 25821 as a
>coefficient.  And I would expect that the average over a three or six
>month period would be more reliable than just using the most recent
>figure.

I like this idea.

However, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, I see some objections that
might come up:

1) This places power into the hands of UUNET, at least in that whoever it is
in that organization reporting the statistics can skew them, in theory.

2) This places a single 'point of failure' at UUNET.  Should UUNET get wiped 
off the face of the planet, how do we get the numbers for the next vote(s)?

3) UUNET is not 'central' enough for regional hierarchies, and non-USA
hierarchies.

Now I can counter some of these points immediately:

1) It should be possible to have the large sites UUNET feeds compile the same
lists, and merge them for the same result, at least for the accuracy this
idea needs, alleviating the problem of one person/small group skewing the
net growth.

2) Similarly, the backbone sites can run the same compilation, and we can
agree on an 'order of succession' should any one major site get removed.

3) Perhaps the regional hierarchies can set up similar sites for their own
subnet traffic.  I believe the European sites tend to feed through single
sites in many countries, facilitating the collection of statistics.  However,
the debates I've seen of the control issues make those sites more likely to
fall into item number (1) above

>I agree that "traffic on this topic" is difficult to formalize and may
>lead to flame wars.  On the other hand, we don't know in advance until
>it is tried.  It is certainly possible to count articles in related
>mailing lists and to estimate percent of traffic in existing groups,
>and it would be up to the proponents of the new group to come up with
>a consensus figure during the CFD period.

For the rec,games.frp spilt, there were a good number of topic counts used to
justify the split into various subgroups based on traffic, so this can be
done.



-- 
Pete Hardie:  phardie@nastar  (voice) (404) 497-0101
Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA
Member, DTS Dart Team           |  cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" 
Position:  Goalie               |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:50:39 GMT

In article <BzMJ73.GJo@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) wrote:
>
>Yeah.  Conversations about *books*, however broadly construed, like the one-
>line summary of the group's remit says:
>
>           Books of all genres, and the publishing industry.
>
>That does not stretch to interminable maunderings, however they got started,
>about modal logic and the ethics of sexuality, or the sociology of SAT
>scores, and still less to the CB-like prattle that's built up over the last
>few months which is about nothing in particular except the egos of the
>protagonists.  If you want to do that sort of thing, get an IRC channel for
>it.
>--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
>17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
>INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
>BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp

______________________________________________________________________________
I am puzzled why a group split is necessary when a kill file is so easy. 
That is the thing I like about newsgroups, that a number of parallel
discussions can happen at the same time, and that we can choose which ones
we read.  Yes, the maunderers and the CB prattlers (and yes, I have
certainly done my share of that) don't always appeal; and I find some of
the flames intimidating.  But it seems to me that the new group could
become as "infested" by "undesirables" as any others.  The "CB-like
Prattle" happens among an extremely diverse population (I enjoyed our
brief exchange about the definition of a ha-ha and the related class
issues, Jack) and quite frankly is part of the process that *creates*
literature (even the recurring threads about balls and ova, the 'f' word
[does she mean feminist?], and *shudder*, Spinstermania).  I think it is
simple enough to start a thread about a book, if one wants.  Emma Pease
wants one on "Barchester Towers," and I plan to get the book this weekend.
I hope there is a vigorous response to your request for a book full of
quotes for people like me!  And maybe I'll come up with some of my own.

Best wishes

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: Manly Geoff Bronner (Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american)
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<idoy.724717177@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1992Dec19.115117.27917@gnosys.svle.ma.us>
	<1992Dec19.195731.11630@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec21093506@mother.intellection.com>
	<1992Dec23.200434.17982@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 02:13:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.200434.17982@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:

   >Be serious, it's hard for me to type and laugh at the same time.
   >What's your damage?  Who's being rude?  It was rude of Brian to foist
   >his minority view of the issue on me and everyone with his comment
   >"what we want here is soc.culture.native," 

   Actually, the 'we' refered to the people in the current discussion, not
   Native Americans. If you missed that then you are dense.

I referred to his view as "minority" because his first post was so
seriously at odds with the consensus established on the issue.  But
you thought I referred to his race instead.  I hear a knee jerking.

   Throwing a racial comment like that (and it is, no matter whay you
   may think) into a discussion like this is foolish and rude.

The sense in which it is a racist joke is incredibly ironic, given
your expressed outrage on behalf of your friend.  The laugh is at the
expense of a white man.

   If you don't like his attitude then address that in email.

Take your own advice.  I will make public answer to defamatory
remarks.

Off the subject, you may want to check your posting software.  I
received the above referenced article with a bogus (truncated)
original there was none).  I don't know if this sort of error causes
fascist transport software to drop articles, but there's the
possibility.  Obviously there was no problem between your site and
mine.

	<idoy.724717177@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1992Dec19.115117.27917@gnosys.svle.ma.us>
	<1992Dec19.195731.11630@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec21093506@mother.intellection.com>
	<1992Dec22.173455
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>

Raise Usenet quality.  Read news.announce.newgroups and vote.
From: trier@slc6.ins.cwru.edu (Stephen C. Trier)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.ms-windows.networking
Date: 21 Dec 1992 22:52:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc6.ins.cwru.edu

In article <shephard.724735838@sfu.ca> shephard@fraser.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:
>>  comp.os.ms-windows.networking 

As a reader of comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc and comp.sys.novell, I question
why this group is needed?  There's plenty of coverage for networking under
MS-Windows, and since the questions are different for different networking
suites, I see no need for an all-encompassing "MS Windows" networking group.

After all, think of it this way: Networking is currently broken up by protocol,
then, if necessary, by machine or OS.  Trying to group networking under an OS
will automatically mean fragmenting conversations between newsgroups and more
cross-posting, because it will no longer be clear where posts belong.

If you want a group for Windows for Workgroups or LAN Manager, make WfWG and
LanMan newsgroups under comp.protocols.* or comp.os.*.  Just don't make
things harder for me and anyone else who does network support by building a
catch-all group that has TCP/IP and Novell (things that interest me) and
LanMan, 3Com, WfWG, and everything else (things that don't interest me).

The same argument applies, by the way, for people who are interested only in,
say, SNA and WfWG.  They wouldn't want a big catch-all, either -- they'd want
SNA and WfWG newsgroups.

The simple fact is that there is no one "network", as much as Microsoft would
like to pretend there is.  The magic is in the protocols, the questions are
different per protocol, and that's how we should organize the groups.

Just my 2 pfennigs...

-- 
Stephen Trier                      "We want to offer you a price that you
Network software type               just can't afford to take advantage of."
Case Western Reserve University         - Sales blurb from HSC Software
trier@ins.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups