HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C J Silverio)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.divination
Subject: Re: Tarot GIFs request
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:50:24 GMT
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com (C J Silverio)
Followup-To: alt.divination
Organization: SGI TechPubs

---
"Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" <ache@astral.msk.su> writes:
|If you have Tarot pictures in 256-color GIF or in other well-known
|graphic format, inform me where I can get it, please.
|I can use anonymous ftp or E-mail, no BBS access.

The problem with this request is that tarot images tend
not to be in the public domain.  If you find any in the
public domain, I'd love to hear about it.  (I have a HyperCard
stack that needs finishing.)  Every so often I think about
drawing a deck myself and putting it in the public domain,
but it's too big a project for me.  78 images... ouch.

---
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"For one thing, herbs can be eaten, which puts them right up there on the
positive reinforcement scale. If someone invented an edible decimal point,
most of us would be able to do our own taxes." -- From the Murky News 
gardening section
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Working in Groups
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:44:31 GMT


In article <_jcnjpk.mesm@netcom.com> mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) 
writes:

>   cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes:
>: I've seen a number of Rosicrutian-by-mail advertised.  I'd be interested in
>: seeing you post who you dealt with.  What you were looking for and why that
> : group fell short of your needs.

> The pamphlets that I received were lessons on surrounding things with 
> light, changing internal talk, and generally changing your mindset
>  so that you believe that it is possible to change external reality.

>  That was as far as I got.

an aquaintance of mine, many years ago, did the AMORC correspondance
thing. it seems that this kind of vagueness is all you get for a
long time (a couple years?) at the end of which (by this point they
are into you for several hundred dollars) they start teaching you
the hebrew alphabet and qabalistic correspondances, ie stuff that
you could have learned yourself by spending $10 - $50 on a copy of
the G.'.D.'. or 777.

josh
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Working in Groups
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:31:48 EDT

Hello,

cward@Think.COM (Christopher) clarifies...

> If you are familiar with the Tree of Life Layout, the mystical path is mapped
> from Malkuth to Yesod to Tiphareth to Kether.  So, while I recall a book
> by Israel Regardie on this Path (can't recall the title) his other Golden
> Dawn books and the A.'.A.'. stuff I've seen follow what I term the occult
> path.
> 
> The occult path uses a grade system which moves upward on the Tree along the
> Path of Return: Malkuth to Yesod to Hod to Netzach to Tiphareth ...

Gotcha.  Sorry it took me a while to understand you.  Have you seen a book
called (something like) _The_Gematria_Handbook_ (or Workbook)?  Most of it
is tabulated letter/number tables (for those who can't add, I guess),
but at the end are some interesting diagrams, suggesting other types of
paths up the tree.

The standard 'occult' path is called the 'way of the saint', while a
mirror image lightning flash (Kether-Binah-Chokmah-Gevurah-...) is called
the 'way of the wizard.'   A set of lines all going radially out from
Tiphareth is called the 'way of the messiah.'  There are also paths
primarily on the 3 pillars, but I can't find my notes that says what they
are called.

> I've browsed through the mammoth "Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic" by
> I. Regardie but hesitated to buy it.  At $50 its a good deal just based on
> weight but still a good deal of money to lay out.

Whoa!  Are those US $?  There is a new paperback edition that runs for
$20, but with a new typeface and pagination, as well as a silly (I just
browsed it) new introduction by some Regardie-groupie.

I personally like the 4th (?) edition that was the last one Regardie saw,
and the first one all in one volume.  Gotta love the 'mod' seventies bright
blue cover!!!

> His other books are quite
> readable and shows he is a real master.  I'm just not sure how well the
> Egyptian motif fits with my paradigm.

One's mileage will vary...
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Reasoning is partly insane.  Image just an I-less game."

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Xref: sparky alt.magick:4161 alt.war:1886
From: tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.war
Subject: Re: Crowely's Significanc (Fuller)
Followup-To: alt.magick
Date: 31 Aug 1992 07:02:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: whistle.berkeley.edu

<<By the way, "blitzkrieg" (the tactics Hitler used to conquer
<<so many nations) was invented by a disciple of Crowley (see
<<"Memoirs of an Unconventional Soldier" (J.F.C. Fuller) and
<<the "plan 1919" material.

<Thank you for answering a question that had been bothering me for along
<time! Not too long ago, I was in an Occult bookstore and noticed a 
<collection by J.F.C. Fuller. 

What was in the collection? I know Fuller wrote some books on Yoga,
Kabala, and Crowley in addition to his works on military matters.

<Hmmmm...I thought. It CAN'T be the same Fuller that (along with 
<Basil Liddel-Heart) expounded on the theories of Mechanized warfare
<throughout the '20's and '30's. It seems it was!

Fuller was Chief of Staff of the British Tank Corps during WW1,
generally credited with originating the plan of attack at Cambrai,
1916 (the first great tank battle in history), and worked out in full 
(and wrote down :-) during the Spring/Summer of 1918 the blitzkrieg 
tactics used by the Germans in WW2 (see "Memoirs ..." above. His theory
was accepted as the basis for the plan of attack the Allies intended 
to use had the war continued into 1919, but the great tank attack at 
Amiens on August 8, 1918 -- the "Black Day of the German Army", which 
Fuller also deserves credit for -- unhinged the German High Command 
and led to an earlier than expected end of the war.)

Compared to Fuller, Liddell Hart is rather mediocre (though since
Fuller was so unconventional, he was unpopular amongst some of the
more orthodox.)

<Fuller was one of the proponents of the all arms concept of armoured 
<warfare. He theorized that an independent armoured division...fast 
<moving and powerful, could force a quick decison by long range 
<penetration of an enemy's front and disruption of the enemy's 
<communications to the rear.

<His theories were ignored in his own country...

Not quite ignored, as Fuller was high up in British military circles
during the 1920s, before he retired (at the rank of Major General)
in disgust in the early 1930s (The father of armored warfare, he was 
offered the command of an infantry division, in Bombay, of all places. 
That was the last straw :-)

<but...taken up with a great deal of enthusiasm in Germany, notably by 
<Heinz Guderian. The rest, is history.

Someone ought to translate into English those of Guderian's works which
have only appeared in German.

<I found it interesting that one of the top 5 militairy theorists in 
<this century was also a colleague of Crowley!...amazing in fact!

Fuller is generally considered the most influential strategist of
the first half of the 20th century.
From: lynx@terapin.com (Debbie Caraway)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Education
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:16:49 PST
Organization: BBS

Obviously very skewed personal experiences and the lack of real experience in
education over time in a variety of situation is blatent.  

Working with computers is something quite different from realting abstract
concepts.  There is a lot of peer presure for kids to give answers and not help
the other person develop their own set of mental tools.  This puts an undo
social burden on the helper as well.  Granted they can help rephrase things,
but it is not nor should it be their responsibility.  Many teachers dump their
burdens on the bright kids, and they are not only held back, but put in
positions where they are socially bribed.  I've known both a girl and boy who
was stuck in the 6th grade math book for 4th, 5th & 6th grade and they were
such good helpers and were expected to (especially the girl).  They hated it. 
The policy was to suppliment and maintain the status quo.  I had to get old
Algebra books from the continuation school and bought them software.  These
kids devoured the books with a passion.  The girl had almost started to hate
Math and was becoming anorexic.  The boy ended up taking trig at a nearbu
University for summer school; they had to let him go to the high school for
Geometry in 8th and Calc in 9th.  Both kids took the SAT at 13 and got
scholarships.  The girl had her self esteem all infected by people telling her
to help others and not think of self.  She had skipped a grade and was
emotionally very young and the school was in a lower middle class area where. 
Besides girls weren't suppose to excel in Math more than the popular boys.  She
had some interesting things to say after reading the Scarlet Letter and Anthem.
 That SAT test that she wasn't suppose to take when she just turned 13 and her
bewildered but supportive parents gave her the validation that had been stolen.
 Her parents moved out of state and she is in a better situation and is
presently in high school involved in both Math and Drama.

Granted these may sound like extremes, but the point is, that they should have
been obvious.  These kids even knew what they were good at, but trusted the
adults and peers.  These kids especially that should have had belief in
themselves, were devistated.  The gir liked helpin, it was better than doing
the same wok again and she didn't feel she deserved to move ahead.  What about
when it's not as obvious.  I may not know about magick, but I do know about
education.  The word is travesty.  Don't tell me that the bright kids will do
ok (at what cost?).  When helping becomes a burden to the helper, it's no
longer helping.  There are no clear cut rules it's the situation, context and
people; that's what makes it a challenge.  Besides it's definitely the wrong
time of year for this discussion ;)
From: knightster+@CMU.EDU (Shawn Clayton Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram AND Thoth Tarot
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:00:21 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I also have Crowley's deck, and I was wondering what yinz all think of
his Unicursal Hexagram card (black w/ a Red Uni. hexagram and 5-petaled
flower).
Do you use it in readings?  if so, what's it represent?

Just wanted all your opinions on how *you* use it.

-shawn
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: fredj@wang.com (Fast Freddie)
Subject: Re: Lost Keys of Fremasonry
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 22:40:14 GMT

markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe) writes:

>I recently picked up and read this work by Manly Hall.  I very much enjoyed
>it, but I saw little relationship between that book and the Shriners I 
>have known.  I was simultaneously impressed and depressed - impressed by the
>significant structure dedicated to completing an important work - depressed
>by the fear that these keys are indeed lost (or at best little-used).

>I have knowingly known a few high-degree masons.  While they were nice guys,
>none of them impressed me as having made great progress towards the completion
>of Hiram's labor.  Comeraderie ... yes.  Philanthropy ... yes.  Fraternity
>... yes.  Spiritual growth, transformation and purification ...........

What makes you think that?

>Are there lodges that are more dedicated to the spiritual growth elements 
>of masonry?  Is everyone over twelfth degree actually dedicated to building
>the temple and I just never noticed it?  Is the spiritual path actually 
>tended by a few 38+ degree wierdos who have long since learned that talking
>about it is alot like teaching a pig to sing?

First of all sir:  There are only 33 degrees in the scottish rite,
                   There are only 12 degrees in the York rite.

Lastly the active Masons are some knowingly some unknowingly.
Fast Freddie
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: chambers@hal.emba.uvm.edu (Christopher A Chambers)
Subject: Re: TS
Keywords: TS, Theosophical Society
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:46:59 GMT

In article <Btutq4.422@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling) writes:
>
>	Hiya.
>		I'm trying to get an easier contact to the American Theosophic-
>al Society.  I know that the closest location publicly known (to Purdue) is
>in Wheaton, IL, but that is, well, quite a hike..
>		If I can I will talk to them about memebrship and travel
>Scholarships, but if anyoner knows an easier way to get in touch with them, 
>and perhaps a less public one, I would appreciate a response.
>
>				Thank you, 
>					
>						D

  Get a copy of The QUEST magazine, which is published by the Theosophical 
Society. It will contain info on becoming a member. There are numerous local
chapters and study groups. For those who are not near such a center, such as
myself, there is the the Member at large designation. Though this of course
doesn't allow all that much interaction with the others. It does let you 
use the library at Wheaton by mail order. It is a truely impressive library.

  hope this helps.


-- 
   ####################################################################
   |        Christopher A. Chambers         | All that we can not see |
   |       (chambers@hal.emba.uvm.edu)      | we call invisible.      |
   |    Computer Science Graduate Student   |   -- The BUGGLES        |
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka)
Subject: RE - Crowely's Sign
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:34:15 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 08-31-92 22:28

 Te> Fuller was Chief of Staff of the British Tank Corps during WW1,
 Te> generally credited with originating the plan of attack at Cambrai,
 Te> 1916 (the first great tank battle in history), and worked out in full 
 Te> (and wrote down :-) during the Spring/Summer of 1918 the blitzkrieg 
 Te> tactics used by the Germans in WW2 (see "Memoirs ..." above. His
 Te> theory was accepted as the basis for the plan of attack the Allies
 Te> intended  to use had the war continued into 1919, but the great tank
 Te> attack at  Amiens on August 8, 1918 -- the "Black Day of the German
 Te> Army", which  Fuller also deserves credit for -- unhinged the German
 Te> High Command  and led to an earlier than expected end of the war.)

Very good! I like to see another armored warfare enthusiast wandering around
...in AltPagan of all places!

 Te> Compared to Fuller, Liddell Hart is rather mediocre (though since
 Te> Fuller was so unconventional, he was unpopular amongst some of the
 Te> more orthodox.)

I would tend to agree .... although Liddell Hart WAS an excellent historian..
his books on the "Indirect Approach" and "History of the Second World War"
are extremely readable (although I much prefer John Keegan's work).

 Te> <but...taken up with a great deal of enthusiasm in Germany, notably by
 Te> <Heinz Guderian. The rest, is history.

 Te> Someone ought to translate into English those of Guderian's works
 Te> which have only appeared in German.

Actually, Guderian in the '50s put out what was reputedly to be an excellent
work called "Panzer Leader" which was released in English.

 Te> <I found it interesting that one of the top 5 militairy theorists in 
 Te> <this century was also a colleague of Crowley!...amazing in fact!

 Te> Fuller is generally considered the most influential strategist of
 Te> the first half of the 20th century.

In terms of theoretical discussions I would tend to agree. In terms of
"operational" vs "theoretical" I would have to rank Erich Manstein as
possibly the greatest armour warfare strategist ... possibly of this
century. I'm sure his plan that toppled France in '40 and his counter
stroke at Kharkov in Feb/43 are still studied today...



... ------>|* MARK!
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
---
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:54:06 GMT

Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:

>In a message dated Thu 20 Aug 92  5:11, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A.
>Davis-Howe) wrote:

>>This post has Thelemic overtones, and I mean that in the most respectful
>>manner.  I wonder if you could define "Thelemite" for us so that we can
>>better understand one another?  :)

>>Love is the Law.
>>Gerald

> BD> I would never be willing to define Thelemite, since I would never,
>ever,
> BD> wish to be called such.  I don't like any work of Crowley's that I
>have
> BD> ever read, including the various holy books.  I don't see what in this
> BD> post could possibly be interpreted as Thelemic.  What did you see as
> BD> Thelemic?

>That you chose your own path, and question all things; and have a tendency
>(from what I have read of your posts) to research things out before making
>your mind up one way or another.

There is nothing in this that is particular to any one religion.  The people
who taught me this were mostly very much Christians.  (Oh well, there goes 
another stereotype about the evil Christians down the drain. :-) )

> BD> I may then be able to relate where I learned that attitude, which will
>be
> BD> someplace other than Crowley.  There is nothing truely original in
> BD> Crowley's attitudes, after all.

>What I was trying to emphasize is that Thelema has very little to do with
>Crowley, and that calling yourself a Thelemite is not declaring to the
>universe that you are a Crowley groupie.  There is this false belief among
>that occult communities that Thelemites are Crowley wanna-be's.

>Crowley was not the first to coin the term.

OK, then I think it is my turn to ask *you* to define Thelemite.  What is the 
basis of Thelema, if not Crowley's writings?  Also, will most people who call
themselves Thelemites agree with you definition, and will they fit your
definition of Thelemite?

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ed@venuscmc.ca (Ed Antosz)
Subject: Re: Easter's date <was: Re: The pentagram>
Reply-To: antosz@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:15:17 GMT

Specifically, Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the
22nd of March.  For pagans, March 22 is a major date in the spring, so
Christianity in an attempt to "sell the product" set Easter up to be appealing
to them and to intice them to convert.  

Ed
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram AND Thoth Tarot
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 09:56:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
: Hello,
: 
: I think there must be a difference between either...
: 
: (a)  the Large and Small versions, or
: (b)  decks sold in different countries, or something.
: 
: I just bought the 'small' deck a week ago in Philadelphia, PA (for about 14
: bucks - yeesh), and there is no such card.

I have a set. Bought in Denver, Co., about 1982. These cards are 
about 2x the size of a deck of playing cards. I have both "joker"
cards.

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:09:00 GMT

William Henry Timmins points out...
>>It was created by Crowley.  The point is to be able to trace the figure in
> 
>	Somehow I doubt Crowley 'invented' the unicursal hexagram.

[deletia]

>-Me
>[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
><B1 c+ f+ w g+ k+ s+ r- e+ p>

+-------------------------------------SubG-----------------------------------+
Indeed, Al attributes the "discovery" of the unicursal hexagram to someone
else, but I'm afraid I can't recall who he credits or where he does it.

Of course, he is fond of referring to himself in the third person, after the
fashion of monarchs, Shakespearian characters and ancient bearded myths.



Yours etc.,






SubGenius
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Distribution: world
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:11:06 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue 25 Aug 92  5:28, joshua@CPAC.WASHINGTON.EDU (Joshua
Geller) wrote:

 JG> Gerald writes:

>BA writes:

>BD> I would never be willing to define Thelemite, since I would never,
>BD> ever, wish to be called such.  I don't like any work of Crowley's that
I
>BD> have ever read,

 JG> which, you might recall, he admitted way back when was like one.

>BD>ncluding the various holy books.  I don't see what in this
>BD> post could possibly be interpreted as Thelemic.  What did you see as
>BD> Thelemic?

 JG> That you chose your own path, and question all things; and have a
 JG> tendency (from what I have read of your posts) to research things out
 JG> before making your mind up one way or another.

 JG> this is a good joke.

Only if you believe Thelemites are Crowley wannabe's.

Love is the Law.
Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Amen <was: Re: AGLA>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:29:03 GMT

dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling) writes:

>In article <JOSHUA.92Aug28170950@bailey.cpac.washington.edu> joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>>
>>In article <J1J8PB1w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill
>>Eichman) writes:
>>
>>>   Anyone have any opinions of the jewish use of 'amen'?
>>
>>it's an old semitic word. it's in arabic as well as hebrew. the christians,
>>in fact, borrowed it from the jews (muslims use it too; at least they came
>>by it honestly).

>	I remember my Fater telling me, way back when I was a christian, that
>it meant "Let it be so."
>	If this is true, it would be humourous in it's similarity to the 
>wiccan and Magical "So Mote It Be"


Wicca and Ceremonial Magic get the phrase "So mote it be" from Masonry.  Guess
where Masonry comes from--Christianity.  Make sense now?

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:02:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Aug27.195949.14122@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

>Oooh! A state of sin even. Well, that gives me an idea about the
>mindset.  If you don't agree then you sin. Thanks, but no thanks!

>Bill

That's an allusion, Bill, to John von Neumann's remark about random
numbers.  He said, "Anyone who believes a [digital] computer can produce
random numbers is, of course, living in a state of sin!"
-- 
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---
    - Friday -                   "If a miracle happens in your vicinity--
      friday@well.sf.ca.us                            take credit for it!"
      (Carol Anne Ogdin)