From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: Lifdot & L'chaper
Date: 11 Oct 1992 04:50:47 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Oct8.121030.18163@pbs.org> you write:

> Not only that, but it is an Orthodox tradition that the death of the
> righteous atones for the sins of the unrighteous, and for the sins of
> the world, which is how they explain why tzadikkim suffer in this
> world.  This they tie in with Isaiah 53!  Rabbi Beryl Wine has written
> on this.  "May his death be an atonement for our generation" is an
> expression commonly heard at the funeral of a rabbi.

That's the case with martyrs in general.  This has nothing to do
with a voluntary man-god human sacrifice to atone for original
sin for future generations.

> Furthermore, Numbers 8:19ff portrays the Levites as a sort of living
> sacrifice for the people.  One rabbinic source says that just as the
> bull is the atonement for the Levites, the Levites are the atonement
> for Israel.

Source, please.  I'd like to look this up.

>  The analogy of a lightning rod is given, attracting God's
> wrath upon themselves and away from the people.  In fact, in Numbers
> 35 we see that blood was required for blood, and the manslayer had to
> flee to a city of refuge.  According to Tractate Malkot it is not the
> banishment which makes atonement or expiation for sin, but the DEATH
> OF THE PRIEST.  The priest served as a mediator between sinner and
> God.

This is for manslaughter resulting from contributory negligence, not
for intentional sin or "original" sin.  Not even sacrifices would help
until the sinner would repent.


> This is interesting because we often hear the Messiah would not have
> to die for the people.  But Messiah is not only King but Priest as
> well, and as our Kohen Gadol His death atones for us once and for
> ever, as He was raised from the dead and ever lives to make
> intercession for us.

The Messiah can't be a priest.  He's from the tribe of Judah.
Furthermore, we learn from the Hashmoneans that combining the
monarchy and the priesthood is A Bad Thing.

> God demonstrates His own love for us in that the Messiah died on our behalf
> while we were still sinners.  Therefore, since we have now come to be
> considered righteous by means of His bloody sacrificial death, how much
> more will we be delivered through Him from the anger of God's
> judgment!

Depends on how you look at it.

From an SCJ posting (from Mark Kaufman, I believe):

#   Maccoby feel that there is an unconscious haterd of G-d in the
# Christ mythology.  The conscious mythology says that G-d loved us
# so much that He was willing to sacrfice his only son.  But deeply
# buried in the subconscious is the knowledge that G-d DEMANDED the
# death of his son in expiation of sins commited in disobedience to
# his cruel moral demands.  This sacrifice is sold as G-d providing
# a merciful escape for humanity from eternal damnation.
#
#   Maccoby show how differently Judasim sees things.  The laws do
# not represent an impossible moral standard, as they are viewed by
# Christian theology.  He points out that G-d's message that that a
# human morality is possible.  In Judaism, G-d has never condemned,
# or damned humanity, and so does not have to engineer a rescue, by
# the torture of a divine victim.  It is precisely because Judaism,
# which teaches that people are capable of moral responsibility, is
# constantly insisting on the possiblilty of morality for all, that
#it is such a threat to Christian mythology.  If Judaism is right,
# that salvation is possible through behavior, then the death Jesus
# will have been for nothing.
...

Rob-- 
--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM