From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Date: 25 Dec 1992 14:48:29 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <BzqCHA.Mo7@ucunix.san.uc.edu> bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu writes:

>Would you please write a couple of phrases in English that capture the
>semantics of the word "DEEN" in its original language?

In Quran the word DEEN has been used in the following four meanings

1.	Sovereignty and Supreme Authority
2.	Obedience and Submission to such Authority
3.	The system of thought and action established through 
		the exercise of that authority
4.	Retribution meted out by the authority, in consideration 
	of loyalty and obedience to it, or rebellion and transgression

As such DEEN encompasses all the reasons d'etre of a "state".
>
>>It has "laws" and "regulations" that need the political instrument
>>of the "state" for their enforcement. 
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
  i> What happened to the much quoted Quranic injunction 
      that there is no compulsion in Islam? 
There is no  compulsion in an Islamic state as long as your actions
do not reach my nose. You  can do whatever you like as long as you
don't break state laws. Same as in USA.

 ii.> If there is no compulsion, and it has to be
	completely voluntary, then why do you need "enFORCEment?" 

What's the use of Islamic concept interest-free economy if there
	is no state where it can not be practiced? 
What is the use of having a concept of Islamic Justice
	 if there is no state to enforce it?

iii.> Also,(Quran/Hadith?) has been quoted as saying 
	something to the effect that "To you your religion and to me mine."

Yes, you can keep your practices, I will keep mine. How will an Islamic
state nullify this concept?

 iv.> Then why should Islam possess the political instrument 
	to enFORCE its version of the laws? 

See two instances of why Islam needs the political instrument.
There are many other reasons like removing exploitation of men
by men through arms and ammunition industries. The cost of running
the arms industry in USA exerts its toll in Somalia.  Similarly, in
 Bosnia.
  v.> What will be enforced by this political instrument when there 
     > is a conflict between the laws of your "DEEN" and the laws of my "DEEN?"
If you have any DEEN meaning laws and regulations (that I suspect any other
religion in the world has, except probably Jews; Christianity abdicated
its rules in favor of division of state and religion), then you can opt
to be culpable under those rules. In another post, I have recently
given an example how Jews opted for their own law and were held
responsible under that law. If you have one, you can use it.
  vi.> Don't tell me that Islam protects other religions because 
      I know that the treatment reserved for Zimmis is 
      "peace with servility" adn not "peace with honor."
Well, tell me how USA would have treated a "communist" 10 years ago,
bent upon destroying the apple cart of US law? If some one is not
bent upon destroying the very framework on which the country is
based, then he can do what ever he wants as is the case in any country.



>Being a religion/Deen without compulsion, why does it need "political
>expression?" 
Simply, because Islam represents Justice. 
And Justice needs enforcement to be effective!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian