HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdr@panix.com (Reuben Radding)
Subject: Re: Whoever Fights Monsters
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:19:25 GMT
Organization: Disorganization Datorganization

In <harris.712209040@drvax3> harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris) writes:

>Has anyone read "Whoever Fights Monsters"? It was written by Robert
>Ressler, former head of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit. In it he
>discusses his career...the beginnings of psychological profiling,
>various serial killers (Edmund Kemper, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc) &
>various other things. Very good reading! Had its' scary moments, too.

>         (posted for Beverly H.)


Sounds great! Is this new and I just haven't noticed it yet?


-- 
================================================================
|  Reuben Radding         rdr@panix.com       cmcl2!panix!rdr  |
|==============================================================|
| ******************* Marrou / Lord in 1992 ****************** | 
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
From: harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
Subject: Whoever Fights Monsters
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:50:40 GMT

Has anyone read "Whoever Fights Monsters"? It was written by Robert
Ressler, former head of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit. In it he
discusses his career...the beginnings of psychological profiling,
various serial killers (Edmund Kemper, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc) &
various other things. Very good reading! Had its' scary moments, too.

         (posted for Beverly H.)
--
Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802

Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
From: ed_eck@milkwy.enet.dec.com 
Subject: Re: Re:Whoever Fights Monster
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:27:42 GMT


In article <harris.712402855@drvax3>, harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris) writes...
> Yes, it's only been out about a month. Well worth the money, IMO.
> 
>          (posted for Beverly H.)
> 
>--
>Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
>(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
>drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802
> 


It's available from the Book of the Month Club, in this month's (July) 
listings. BOTM has also had a few other interesting books: 
		_Clues: A History of Forensic Detection_ by Colin Wilson
		(Special printing for BOTM)

		_Hothouse_ (life inside a prison)

and the ever popular 	_The Devils of Louduin_ 

I also have a book from BOTM on human sacrifice among the Aztecs (somebody 
described the thesis of the book as "human sacrifice as performance art.")

(Other than that, I'm fairly normal...)

Ed Eck
From: connie@uga.edu (Connie M. Doss)
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Subject: Re: MURDER
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:48:35 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Connie
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
From: harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
Subject: Re:Whoever Fights Monster
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:40:55 GMT

 Yes, it's only been out about a month. Well worth the money, IMO.

          (posted for Beverly H.)

--
Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:41:48 EDT
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Subject: Re:Whoever Fights Monster

In article <harris.712402855@drvax3>, harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
says:
>
> Yes, it's only been out about a month. Well worth the money, IMO.
>
>          (posted for Beverly H.)
Did you really think so?  I was a little disappointed because I thought
he spent way too much time doing two things:
A) Patting himself on the back or sticking a knife in the back of people
he obviously didn't like.
B) Going into minute detail about the bureaucratic snafus involved in
getting the FBI and local law enforcement to accept psychological profiling.

Just my two cents

Dennis Shea
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: cipher@lacerta.unm.edu (Rev. J. B. Bell)
Subject: Re: BLACK CROWS
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 05:58:48 GMT
Organization: Universal Life Church of Secular Humorism
Summary: Yeah.  Right.

In article <1992Jul23.171148.4987@openage.openage.com> gryphon@openage.openage.com (The Golden Gryphon) writes:

[Moron posts moronic, not to mention sexist, question.  I toast him a
bit.]

>You know I'm a little disappointed with the responses to this message.  Someone
>else beleives they have a mystical experience, and you people all just make
>fun of him.  I would honestly be interested to know what typical signicance
>is attached to large black birds.  Mystically speaking. 

I don't think this guy believes he had a mystical experience.  I think
he is trying to have some amusement at the expense of this newsgroup.
Do you seriously maintain that "DOES THIS MEAN I'M GONNA GET LUCKY?"
is a serious inquiry about a mystical experience?  If you want to know
about the typical significance of large black birds, ask.  Although
the best place might actually be alt.divination or alt.mythology.

>I hear a lot of people in the pagan/mystic community bemoaning the fact that
>everyone hates them, and how misunderstood they are.  Well look at the kinds
>of replies you are giving out.  People don't have to accept you for what you
>are!  People can easily reject you and call you murderers and rapists.  If you
>want to be understood you need to educate the mind blind masses.

A lot of people in the pagan/mystic community are pathetic whiners.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps I don't give a shit about whether
the blind masses understand me?  That the purpose of this group is
not, and has never been, to explain our existence to every idiot who
blunders through?  Not that those who wish to are forbidden, but I for
one will not do it, and when I perceive mockery, as I do in the quoted
post, I will respond in kind.  Leave your preaching for some more
appropriate channel.

>I'm expecting lots of FUN (NOT!) messages from people.  I will not get into
>a flame war.  I will discuss this seriously.  I'll even have a heated
>discussion with you if you disagree.  Public or Private.  Email or News.

Your challenge is all very well and macho, but what is there to
discuss?

>-- 
>The Golden Gryphon 				gryphon@openage.COM
>Solve a man's problem and he has 1 less.        No incumbents in 92.
>Teach a man to think, and all his problems are less.
>Openage - The Premier SCO UNIX integrator in the Washington D.C. area

                             --Rev. J. B. Bell

who could use a new .sig.

-- 
"Before you shoot off your mouth, try placing your foot in it.  At least
that way, you'll know _why_ you shot yourself in the foot."

           --Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Possible to obtain magic powers>?
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:56:40 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Jul21.042303.944@eskimo.celestial.com> victim@eskimo.celestial.com (Tony Garton) writes:
>The reference to D&D type magick does bring up an interesting question
>since I am an avid RPG gamer.  Does any RPG exist that uses a magick
>system confined to 
>'real magick'?  My gamemaster allows one of our chars (a gypsy fortune
>teller) to use a quabbles deck for divination in the game.  I think that
>magickal rituals could be handled based on skill, time involved, work
>involved in assembling components, etc.  I think a game of this type
>might go a long way toward educating the gaming populace about real
>magick.

You can't, IMO, create a role playing system that reflects real magick
because it would have to presuppose a GM who understood the rules.  I
made up my own low-magic RPG at one point, with heavy cultural and 
god-imposed restraints on the uses of spells, with a foundation of
'real magick.'  To go up levels, you basically went thru degree initia-
tions, and it was basically VERY unusual for anyone to get above 
second level (as such things are defined in AD&D, as a benchmark).  
There was also an elaborate skill system.

The foundation of the game was theomancy, however, and the political
manipulation of the socioeconomic system thru elaborate dynastic
feudal political structures, highly bound to the various temples,
and subject to occasional direct intervention from the very concretely
real gods (this is, after all, a fantasy world...).

There were several 'flavors' of magick running around, and they included
personal transformative magick, which was considered a necessary adjunct
to advancement in any of the other magicks, except for a few blessed or
sorry individuals in whom the gods took specific interest.

At one point, one of my players, a very friendly christian, apologized
that he was going to have to withdraw from the game.  He found that it 
was a little too much REAL magick, and he felt a conflict with his
personal religious culture.  He didn't condemn it -- he was actually 
worried, I think, because he found it compelling, and it made him 
uncomfortable.  I was sorry to lose him as a player, but always thought
of his leaving and the grace with which he did it as a very high
compliment.

One of the most easily adaptable systems to including real magick that
I have seen published is the *original* edition of RuneQuest!, before
Avalon Hill bought it and bowdlerized the religious aspects...


-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul20.123239.25586@ddsw1.mcs.com>, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes...
>>>derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes:
>>>: Out of curiousity, is it possible to learn wizard/magic spells and
> >>successfully perform them without any aid... and actually do it?
>>>: 
>>>: If so, hhow? :)
>>>: 
>>>: - Scott
> 
> 
>What is now commonly called by Crowlites, and "witchy-poos" as wizardry,
>magic and spells is originally the arts of an ancient shaman or priest.
> 
>The problem is that today many an aspiring magician is extremely self
>centered, egotistical and ecclectic. They seldom have any sense of
>"humility" and for the most part terribly confused with equally confusing
>verbal diarrhea that covers up for the tremendous vaccum of their alledged
>knowledge.
>

You said it!

> 
>If you are truly serious, then your greater task is to find a genuine
>source, and few abound and those that are do not accept readily.
> 

The most important source is within yourself.

> 
>Eshin-Fun
>: 

- Peggy -
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: rosicrucians
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:29:35 EDT

 Hello,

Bill Nelson (billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com) writes:

>winstel@kit.uni-kl.de (Rainer Winstel) writes:
>: Is there anybody who knows the Order of the Rosicrucians. The girl-friend of 
>: a friend is worshiper of this ancient group.  
>: I would be happy to get some informations.
>
>Ancient? I believe the earliest informtion is from around 1870? The Rosy
>Cross Order is certainly not ancient.

  Although the actual extant groups (AMORC, Golden Dawn, etc.) were born
 in the late 19th century, the concept of a Rosicrucian brotherhood goes
 back much farther.

  The document "Fama Fraternitatis" was published in 1614 in Cassel, and
 there was, I belive a companion document called the "Confessio" (sp?)
 published a year later or so.  These publications discussed the discovery
 of the tomb of Christian Rosenkreutz (who supposedly lived in the late
 1300's - early 1400's), the founder of the order.

  On a pseudo-related note, I saw a book called (something like)
 _Rosicrucian_Cosmo-Conception_ in an occult bookstore recently.  It
 is a reprint of a book from the early 1900's, and described one version
 of the rosicrucian philosophy.  I was turned off by this book for 2
 reasons:  (1) Its heavy literalist-Christian doctrine, and (2) its
 classification of "Aryan" peoples as one step above other races on the
 evolutionary ladder!  I kid you not!   OBJECT LESSON:  be aware of what
 "brand" of rosicrucianism you are getting into.  From my experience,
 the Golden Dawn took some of the better ideas from the rosicrucians
 and left the closed-mindedness at the door.
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Hold your fire -- Keep it burning bright...."

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: re: Nagi's comment on dream control
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:03:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <63142@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes...
>9207.30 e.v.
> 
>old Tagi:
> 
>Lucid dreaming is what I was talking about when I mentioned 'infusing the
>conscious mind into dreamstate' during waking consciousness.  My
>understanding is that this style of 'visualization' has nothing to do
>with controlling the dreams one has while asleep, but I know very little
>about it.  

They talk about lucid dreaming in alt.dreams.  I thought it was 
where you tried to become aware of yourself in your dreams and 
then tried to control your actions.  Last year they conducted an 
experiment and everyone was supposed to meet on an imaginary 
train.  Then they were supposed to send descriptions of other 
passengers and their interactions to a 3rd party, who would look 
for similarities.  Don't know what happened.  I quit reading the 
group about this time, since I couldn't even remember any dreams 
let alone control them - waiting for alt.snooze instead.

>Perhaps you could start another thread and tell us more about
>this technique?

Please do so in alt.dreams, unless it relates directly to magick.

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: msmuga@vega.math.ualberta.ca (M. Smuga-Otto)
Subject: Intellectual involvement in Magick
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:07:58 GMT

Recently, David Tomlinson wrote:
> I have been working on (in my head) an idea about the 
> goals of metaphysical techniques around the world, and it 
> would seem to me that the first goal of all 'Magickal
> Systems' is to stop the internal dialogue ie. your thoughts, 
> and the second is to obtain control over your dreams.

This approach to Magick, when stated in such simple terms, gave me a somewhat
startling jolt.  I became interested in Magick as another way of exploring
the self - and as such, I forgot that self-transcendence requires the 
cessation of the "internal dialogue". Bummer. There is hope, however, for the
intellectual position. I had recently read (_The Devils of Loudun_ by Aldous
Huxley), that in their later and mellower years, the Jesuits (which were a
strict ritualistic organization) had allowed silent meditation as a method
of prayer.  They thus encouraged "internal dialogue" as a means of gaining
a better understanding of the mystical universe.  Could this attitude not also
succeed in Magick, where currently complex ritual is used to blot out any and
all thoughts?

					- Mike Smuga-Otto
From: blewis@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Benn L. Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: BLACK CROWS
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:15:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania



        I could use the help of the internet for this one:

        OK, i was on the phone with this female (who has a serious
boyfriend) and this crow flew up to my window and started
pecking on the screen-  DOES THIS MEAN I'M GONNA GET LUCKY????

        is it a sign or something?

blewis@eniac.seas
From: feland@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Andrew Feland)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: INTERESTED
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:16:24 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <Jul.27.18.17.59.1992.9444@ruhets.rutgers.edu>, farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
|> In article <1097.726.uupcb@factory.com>, harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes:
|> > I'm am interested in 'real magic' and I was wondering if someone could
|> > tell me where I might begin to learn.  Also, possibly the locations of
|> > places in NYC where I might obtain additional information. Thank you.
|> >                                             
|> 
|> 
|> Check out the Magickal Childe in Manhattan, at 35 W.19th St.

Just out of curiosity, know anyplace like that in the Boston area?
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From:  (David Tomlinson)
Subject: Goal of Magick
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 09:51:24 GMT


This is my first post to this group so feel free to flame away.

I have been working on (in my head) an idea about the 
goals of metaphysical techniques around the world, and it 
would seem to me that the first goal of all 'Magickal
Systems' is to stop the internal dialogue ie. your thoughts, 
and the second is to obtain control over your dreams.

Is this making it too simple?

Cheers

David Tomlinson
From: Terence_Stephen_Murphy@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Liber DCCCLXXXVIII
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:34:39 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I am looking for a copy of Liber DCCCLXXXVIII (888).  It was unpublished as o
_Magick In Theory And Pratcice_.  If anyone knows where I can find a copy or
has an electronic edition, PLEASE post a note here or send me E-Mail.  Thanks
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Intellectual involvement in Magick
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:11:00 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <msmuga.712476478@vega>, msmuga@vega.math.ualberta.ca (M. Smuga-Otto) writes...
>Recently, David Tomlinson wrote:
>> I have been working on (in my head) an idea about the 
>> goals of metaphysical techniques around the world, and it 
>> would seem to me that the first goal of all 'Magickal
>> Systems' is to stop the internal dialogue ie. your thoughts, 
>> and the second is to obtain control over your dreams.
> 
>This approach to Magick, when stated in such simple terms, gave me a somewhat
>startling jolt.  I became interested in Magick as another way of exploring
>the self - and as such, I forgot that self-transcendence requires the 
>cessation of the "internal dialogue". Bummer. There is hope, however, for the
>intellectual position. I had recently read (_The Devils of Loudun_ by Aldous
>Huxley), that in their later and mellower years, the Jesuits (which were a
>strict ritualistic organization) had allowed silent meditation as a method
>of prayer.  They thus encouraged "internal dialogue" as a means of gaining
>a better understanding of the mystical universe.  Could this attitude not also
>succeed in Magick, where currently complex ritual is used to blot out any and
>all thoughts?
> 
>					- Mike Smuga-Otto

How do you know whenther the Jesuits were encouraged to use internal 
dialogue or to turn it off during their meditations?

- Peggy -
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Goal of Magick
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:33:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bs5MtE.3wv@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes...
>(David Tomlinson) writes:
> 
>>I have been working on (in my head) an idea about the 
>>goals of metaphysical techniques around the world, and it 
>>would seem to me that the first goal of all 'Magickal
>>Systems' is to stop the internal dialogue ie. your thoughts, 
>>and the second is to obtain control over your dreams.
> 
>>Is this making it too simple?
> 
>Yes, this is too simple.  There is no simple generalisation which applies to
>all magical systems.  The book, _Good Magic_, which is a complete system of
>Spellcraft in the Naturalist Realm of magic, has nothing in it about stopping
>the internal dialogue or controlling dreams.  (It is also the only *single book*

No stopping of internal dialogue?  Well, is anything done to help 
focus?  If so, doesn't that stop internal dialogue?

>It sounds like your description best fits what I call Sorcery, which is a

Could you expand on your definition of sorcery?

> 
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur
> 

- Peggy -
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: INTERESTED
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:44:00 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Jul28.131626.14258@husc3.harvard.edu> feland@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Andrew Feland) writes:
>In article <Jul.27.18.17.59.1992.9444@ruhets.rutgers.edu>, farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>|> In article <1097.726.uupcb@factory.com>, harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes:
>|> > I'm am interested in 'real magic' and I was wondering if someone could
>|> > tell me where I might begin to learn.  Also, possibly the locations of
>|> > places in NYC where I might obtain additional information. Thank you.
>|> 
>|> Check out the Magickal Childe in Manhattan, at 35 W.19th St.
>
>Just out of curiosity, know anyplace like that in the Boston area?

	Well, I've never been to the Magickal Childe, but I would recommend
Arsenic & Old Lace, a store which sells supplies and runs lessons and
things like that (some weird stuff in that store).  They're in Cambridge,
between Harvard and Porter Square on Mass Ave (I forget the street number
I'm afraid).

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------