HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: uemura@isl.melco.co.jp (Joe Uemura)
Subject: Re: F1 Stuff
Organization: Mitsubishi Electric, Ofuna, Kanagawa, Japan
	<1992Oct2.083606.25815@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:23:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.083606.25815@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:

 |In article <9210011257.AA03735@client47.comlab.ox.ac.uk>,
 |Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk writes:
 ||> You may well know but Prosty went faster than anyone before at Estoril
 ||> yesterday. 1m 16.28 secs.
 |
 |This time was clocked on September 30.
 |
 |On October 1, Williams test driver Damon Hill clocked 1:14:19 to top
 |the list, while Prost was 2nd best at 1:14:83.  (Blundell was 3rd in
 |a McLaren with Schumacher 4th in the 1:16 bracket.  Sorry, but I don't
 |remember their exact times off the top of my head.)

But wasn't Mansell's pp time during qualifying around 1:13:1? If I recall
correctly, Patrese also clocked in the 1:13 bracket so both Prost's and Damon's
times do not seem that spectacular to me. Of course, course conditions
do affect times.... Just a curiosity, how fast do you think Senna would go
on a Williams at Estoril? Wouldn't be great if they just give him a test
run so people could get an idea of what he'd be like on a Williams? 

Joe
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: German Touring Car Champ. Info wanted
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:50:12 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

The Mustang is run by an independent whose name escapes me.  Real low bucks
operation.

Ellen's last name is Lohr.         
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY SENNA/PROST/WILLIAMS etc CONFUSION
Keywords: FORMULA ONE - Confusion on F1 Rumors
Date: 1 Oct 92 08:46:33 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <1992Sep30.165102.27015@wuecl.wustl.edu>, gene@wucs1.wustl.edu
(_Floor_) writes:
|> As I understand it, Prost had a contract with _Renault_ for several
|> months before he actually signed with Team Willy on Sunday.
|> This guaranteed Prost a drive with Renault, but not that Renault
|> would be with Williams.

I have never heard this, but it makes a lot of sense to me, bearing
in mind that Prost's contract also precludes Senna to drive in the same
team.  It would explain
- why the driver situation at Williams was so unstable (in particular,
  why Senna had a real chance to actually drive for Williams in 93),
- why people at Williams were rumored to be unhappy with Prost (he
  must have threatened to take the Renault engines somewhere else),
- why Williams claimed he was trying to do a deal to trade Prost
  and Renault engines with McLaren in return for Ayrton Senna
  (while presumably keeping the Renault engines).

It also seems to indicate that Renault believe that Williams is going
to have a better chassis next year than McLaren.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: WRC: Ari Vatanen and a Peugeot 205 T16
From: Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Stuart Laing)
Date: 28 Sep 92 00:22:09 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

This reminds me of great days of Rallying.
I to have a Terry story from his days along side Ari in the 205 T16.
Moet had put up a prize of a bottle of their fine product for each stage
won during the WRC to the team ( driver /codriver) who won the most
stage during th e year. Ari and Terry were run away winners in this
smallwager and as Ari is very strictly Tee Total Terry had his eyes on I
think something like 100 bottles of Moet. But small problem arose,Ari as
I said is strictly Tee Total to the degree that he will not even handle
the demon booze and so does not sit on top of the car spraying Moet at
all in sight, the nice people at Moet then said to Terry soory old chap
but we can not give you the prize as we have had not publicity from your
team spraying our fine product all over the assembled crowds. You can
understand that Terry a man who enjoys the odd tipple and a smoke was a
bit up set at this.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: moretti@ferrari.stl.dec.com (john moretti)
Subject: Re:    top 5 drivers,top 3 tracks
Reply-To: moretti@redbck.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital  Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:09:43 GMT


--
You have got to be joking if these bums are in the same league as Nuvolari.
Tazio would have grabbed a CART car and flogged all these pretend F1 drivers
with turboed 3.5 motors. The man was a genius and those who have read his life 
history would know he was the best there will ever be.

He was a very small man with some strange superstitions but had the courage of 
a lion. He survived racing for many years when there were little if any safety
precautions in existence.

CRIM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell left because of Prost?
From: <A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 15:25:28 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

In article <Sep29.165136.17470@engr.washington.edu>,
eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:
>
>Nigel Roebuck's article on this week's Autoweek (and presumably Autosport)
>points the finger at $$$$.  Lots of internal sources quoted.  Overall the
>other Nige thinks that Nige's ego is too big as well.
>
>eliot
 
Bit if it is money, how come Mansell is going to drive in the USA
for less than Williams offered him?
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Max Mosely Interview
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:57:38 GMT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 92Oct6130123@rle-vlsi.mit.edu, lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis
Miguel Silveira) writes:

> Besides Mosley is up for reelection so if
> people did not like him, they could replace him!

This reminds me:  the column by "Effe Juan" in the October 2 issue of
/On Track/ made passing reference to JMB having changed his mind and
deciding to stand again for the presidency of FISA.  Would somebody
with definite information please tell me that this is a joke?
Please??

> Far from invoking conspiracies of any kind, I mereley wanted to state
> that due to his longtime relation with Bernie, it was more than normal
> than the two of them viewed things from a similar perspective.  I see
> nothing wrong with this.

My error; possibly I was led astray by a rhetorical question in your
original posting:

> Is Max, Bernie's puppet?

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

     Sloppy thinking gets worse over time
				- Jenny Holzer
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Can someone post the F1 race results....NOW!
Date: 27 Sep 1992 19:24:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


A O, are you out there.  I can't send mail to you from this site. Post the
results, please.  And If you can also, post John Watson's pre race statements.

Thank you.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mccrohan@salthl.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Berger regarding the Patrese Incident [spoiler]
Reply-To: mccrohan@salthl.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:13:19 GMT


>.
>  We in Canada did not get to see Senna's explanation of his multiple
>pit-stops, so if someone who saw his interview can tell us what he said,
>I'd appreciate it.


He said that there was some sort of vibration that caused him to 
pit the third time

-Mike
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Subject: Re: New F1 Awareness
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:17:08 GMT

kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:


>In article <lc4g3rINNr8n@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>|> Then again, if one goes by the way Nige has
>|> behaved toward the fans this year, he may not have that much to learn.
>|> It seems to be a matter of fashion to snub F1 fans.
>|> 
>|> Chris Prael

>Rather an odd statement. I think Nigel Mansell, out of all F1 drivers, is
>very accomodating and complimentary towards his fans, praising and
>mentioning them at every opportunity - why do you think he's so popular!!

>On another thread, has anybody heard anything about the Sauber teams
>progress, I heard that they've been testing at some circuit in France but
>haven't heard anything since. Also, how did they get the contact with
>goodyear (one of 5 teams to get free tyres). Are Mercedes playing the
>"behind the scenes" big brother??

>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

   In response to your second thread:
A Goodyear official, Barry Griffin, said " I don't think there's any
denying that Mercedes-Benz is connected with Sauber, and Mercedes-Benz
is important to Goodyear. We have different reasons for working with teams.
Some are commercial related, and some are performance related."
  So, yes, I believe that Mercedes is playing so behind-the-scenes action
with Sauber. '94 sould bring most of the answers.

Regards,
Cory

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: Portugal results SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:38:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep29.115752.628@bradford.ac.uk> D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.191627.20244@hubcap.clemson.edu> csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach) writes:
>
>>
>>I didn't join the live feed till the sixth lap, so why did Schumacher start
>>in 25th position?  He qualified around 5th.
>>
>His car stalled/stopped at the start of the warm up lap and he had to
>start from pit lane.
>>

I have seen two different variations of this story and I disagree with
both, so I will chime in.

Schumacher's car wouldn't fire up until the parade lap started and
everyone else was away.  This meant that he got to the starting grid
last and placed his car at the 27th position on the grid.  I am not
sure if he knew what to do at this point because the front straight at
Estoril is too narrow to drive an F1 car between two rows of F1 cars,
which is what he would have had to do to get to his starting position.

There was a slight bit of confusion at the start.  One driver at the
back (Fittipaldi?) put his hands up and there was a yellow flag raised.
However, the green flag guy continued to give the green flag.  During the
delay, it looked to me like Schumacher was moving his car like he was going 
to try to go up the middle.

However, with the yellow flag still waving, the race was started.

Maybe Autosport will have a good write-up on it.

alan

-- 
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------
Alan F. Perry                      | "e-mail is wrecking my life"
esprit@netcom.com                  |              - someone standing in SF
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: joeh@ami.sps.mot.com (Joe Hollinger)
Subject: Re: Desmo Debut Delayed
Organization: none
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:37:11

In article <1030@pico.OZ> conrad@pico.OZ (Conrad Drake) writes:

   chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
   : The sole reason for multivalve heads is to increase the cross section 
   : (area) of the valve opening, thus increasing the volume of air/fuel 
   : mixture that can be moved into and out of the cylinder.  Valve cross
   : section is also the sole reason for the twin plug head design that Alfa
   : Romeo did in the 60s 

Actually, there are other reasons to use multivalve heads besides cross
section. The ones that I can think of are:

	1) smaller valves have less reciprocating mass.

	2) more valves increases turbulence of the intake charge. This
	is especially true at low rpm and can be enhanced by variable
	valve actuation. (Honda and Toyota do this for example).

	3) Smaller valves cool better. I'm not aware of any four or
	five valve heads that use sodium filled valves.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jmvt@prl.dec.com (Jean-Manuel Van Thong)
Subject: Prost has signed with Williams
Keywords: Prost Williams
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 11:41:48 GMT


Prost has signed with Williams. Officially announced by Prost, Renault and
Williams at the french TV (11am local time, Sunday).

He will start private trial on Thurday at Estoril with a prototype of the 
new car for the 93-94 season.

Williams/Renault said that they had the choice between Prost and Senna, but
since there was no way to make them work together with good relationship, 
they finally decided to choose Prost. I saw Senna very disapointed by the
decision, waiting several seconds before answering anything. He said that
was a dirty bit of business behind his back and it was a bad way to show 
sportmanship. Prost just replay that Senna was a child always wanting the
other people's toy.

JM-
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio)
Subject: Denny Hulme Tragic Death
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, JCUNQ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:51:30 GMT

Denny Hulme, former F1 World Champion (1967?) and Australian Touring Car 
stalwart died yesterday during the Australian Tooheys 1000 in Bathurst 
yesterday.

He died of a "massive heart attack" at the wheel of his car. It is unknown 
whether the heart attack was the cause or result of a collicion with the 
wall. He was rushed to Bathurst hospital where doctors tried to revive him.

He will be missed by many I'm sure.

Frank
=====================================================================
Frank Savaglio                                   *
Electrical & Computer Engineering
James Cook University                       *         *
                                                   +
Townsville. Nth Qld. Australia

E-mail: frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au              *

=====================================================================
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Benneton/Portugal ??
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:53:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: utarlg.29SEP199213534483
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

What were those two rectangular LCD readouts above the dash on the
Bennetons keeping track of ? They both seemed to around zero when
Brundle/Schumacher where off the gas and around 500 when they were
on the gas. Also, did Mclaren use the active suspension at any time
during the weekend ?

George
From: winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Porsche and Indy Cars...
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:45:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

I am trying get information on what years Porsche raced Indy cars
an who drove for them.  Actually, I am looking for Porsche powered
Indy cars.  I know that Porsche did not use their on chassis in their
last attempt...

Scott Winders
winders@aux.support.apple.com

"My opinions are my own, not my employer's"
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: The Menstrual Cycle and Andretti Bashing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 30 Sep 1992 11:52 EST  

In article <Bv8pH0.D78@umassd.edu>, rgolen@UMASSD.EDU writes...

>Ok, if we can't bash the male Andrettis and their dermatological
>issuses....howabout Sandy Andretti and her K-Mart Fashions and
>her solid gold sunglasses....   :-)

Thank goodness that the F1 broadcasts have significantly less "wife shots" 
than IndyCar :-)

JD 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
From: white@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Brad White)
Subject: Tires : Slicks vs. Treaded: Help Please
Originator: white@watsci.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:58:59 GMT

Hellom
My friend and I are having a debate.  Consider that it is a clear and sunny
day. Which tire would give you more traction?  A slick or a treaded tire?
He is arguing that a treaded (!!) tire has more effective surface area on the raod
i
than a slick. Race car drivers use slicks
because they have better fuel mileage to maintain a given speed than treaded tires.  Is this right?  I
always thought that on a *dry* surface, slicks had more rubber in contact
with the road which would result in better tractionk, but also would
increase the rolling firction and therefore reduce gas mileage.  That is the
trade off between infinitely wide slicks and the ones that they use.
Thanks
Brad

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY SENNA/PROST/WILLIAMS etc CONFUSION
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 05:05:50 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.
Keywords: FORMULA ONE - Confusion on F1 Rumors

In article <thos.717891137@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
>Well true, but that was Honda, and the Japanese do handle business 
>slightly differently. Plus FW has shown in the last 4 or 5 years that
>he can still control the team with a rod of iron. I wonder if Honda
>knew what they know now, whether they would have still dropped Williams?

Good point. After all, Honda had a disaster of a run with Maclaren
didn't they... :-)

-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz  or  thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz
Datamark Intl Ltd | 
 Technical Writer | I don't need a disclaimer, I live in a sane society.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood)
Subject: top 5 drivers/top 3 tracks
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:16:44 GMT

Here are my picks-

Drivers ( in no particular order)
     1.  Alain Prost
     2.  Ayrton Senna
     3.  Juan Fangio, III   ( of IMSA fame)
     4.  Al Unser Jr.
     5.  Michael Andretti

Tracks (in no particular order)
     1.  Le Mans  (before the chicanes on the Mulsanne Straight)
     2.  Spa
     3.  Laguna Seca  (just for the corkscrew turn)


Deron Wood

Fangio/Toyota   ---     repeat in 93  ( I hope)
From: froncio@lessfilling.rutgers.edu (Andy Froncioni)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Max Mosely Interview
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:59:16 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
> 
> When people point out how much more technologically advanced F1 is in 
> comparison to IndyCar/CART, a national series with all its rules designed to 
> limit expenses and keep competition close, I think of this:
> 
> F1 has outlawed ground effects of the type seen in IndyCar.  They are viewed 
> as dangerous by FISA.

...etc...

Well, no one can really comment on someone else's reason for choosing
one or the other, however, F1 is clearly the more interesting forum
if you are into developing your own open-wheeled chassis - and there 
are a few of us around.  All the new stuff usually comes out first in
F1.  That's the bottom line for me.  Other people's mileage may vary.

I look to F1 for new innovations and pushing the technology as far as it
can go.  Sure, there are F1 restrictions, but IndyCar seems to lag behind F1 
in virtually all areas.  Let's look at a few aspects of car design.  
Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about IndyCar can fill in
the blanks:

Engine:     F1 specs for turbo were 1300 Hp for 1500 cc engine for a
            1986 BMW engine, I think.

            What are IndyCar engine specs for turbo?  Was there ever
            an all-out unrestricted turbo in Indy/CART?

Chassis:    The first use of carbon-fibre for the entire chassis in
            F1 was in...ummm...1980/81 by Renault, I think.

            Indy?  

Suspension: AA arm suspension came in around the late 70's in F1.
            Gordon Murray used them in a Lotus with inboard spring/
            dampers in the late 70's, too.  Recently, some more 
            adventurous teams have been using monoshock suspensions
            (Dallara, Ferrari, Ligier, Brabham (sniff)).  Williams
            has incorporated Lotus's old active suspension idea,
            which came out in about 1986.  Renault experimented 
            with active camber control in the mid-80's.
            NOTE:  Lookout! Active camber control is the next BIG
            innovation in F1.  I haven't heard anything else about
            it, but it must be on its way.  Traction control was
            used this year and there are ABS rumours floating around.

            When was the first use of all the above in Indycar?


Tires:      Radial tires became popular in the early 80's in F1. 
            Now, they're kind of taken for granted.

            When did Indy start using them?


Perhaps some of the IndyCar fans out there could answer some of my 
questions.  I'm not a race fan, as such.  Being more of a designer
than a driver, I prefer a forum that pits the engineers' wits against
one another.   That's why I prefer F1...

Cheers!

Andy 
-- 
Andy Froncioni			
froncio@caip.rutgers.edu	

  " Until the lions have their own historians, 
    tales of hunting always glorify the hunter..."   Zulu proverb
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: More Rumours from Portugal, about Williams, McLaren
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:33:52 GMT


After the GP telecast is finished, the local commentators at Channel 9
in Australia give tidbits of gossip that they pick up. As one of them
is Alan Jones ('80 WC in a Williams-Ford) they can often have some inside
dope.

What I heard last night was this :

Monseiur Oujeh (sp?) of TAG bought the Ligier team and has given their
supply of Renault engines to McLaren. If the Ligier team can come up
with a new supply of engines then they can race on. So, Ron Dennis's
boys now have power to equal the best.

Williams are still talking with Senna. Prost has finally signed with
the team, but there was some brief mention that F.Williams would swap
him to McLaren for Senna + something (maybe engines). There was also
talk that they would buy out Carl Haas's interest in Mansell, and that
they would buy Patrese out of his contract with Benetton. Exactly what
these rumours show is unclear, except that Williams are frantically 
trying to get a class co-driver.

What is Senna going to do now that McLaren have top-notch engines?
It would make sense for him to re-sign, as his chances for a Williams
seat (notwithstanding the above paragraph) are fairly slim.


regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au