HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: I may change from fuse
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 01:58:07 GMT



Just to give you all a fair shake and show what a democratic guy I am,I plan
to look into all of your suggestions about electrical igniters.I'm not
going to use thermalite or whatever at 45 bucks a roll though.I will try to 
find nichrome wire and see what happens.
Since I want to join the NAR and maybe get into high power this summer,I'll try
and get "legal".
Later
Rob
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: energy required to ignite engines
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:16:22 GMT

cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
: In article <7707@travis.csd.harris.com>, taco@flipper.csd.harris.com (Pablo Fumero) writes:
: > I remember seeing an article about a person's measurements
: > on the amount of current needed to set-off several types
: > of rocket igniters. If someone still has this article, I
: > would greatly appreciate some mail or a repost.
: 
: According to G. Harry Stine, Chairman of the NFPA Committee on
: Pyrotechnics, NFPA 1126 (Pyrotechnics in the Performing Arts) sets
: a safe level of no more than 45 milliamps for testing continuity of
: ignition devices.  Harry claims that he knows of no ignition device
: that will go off at that current level (and of course he's very
: conversant in modern rocketry practice).

Yeah. I wonder if he is still making his own igniters. I wonder if he
has ever seen an electric match?

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: FAA WAVERS?
Originator: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:44:11 GMT

Recently I heard that the FAA has stopped granting wavers until some
education process is in place (ie. the individual appling for the waver
has attended an FAA course (Safety?)).  I was told that the current process
was halted as a result of a violation by some Tripoli prefecture out west
(ie. they flew without a waver).  Does anyone have any information about
this RUMOR? 

Bob
-- 

Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: Igniters
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:08:05 GMT



Well,everyone seems to have their own way of making igniters around here.
Now instead of talking about it,will you please post your methods so others
can use them.
If you can show me something as economical as fuse I will change,such as the
picture wire or thermalite???

Where do I get the items needed?
What exactly do we do?
How much does it all cost?
Please post the methods here,they can't be that hard to do.
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:43:20 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <2154@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.194033.25213@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
>> Thanks for the igniter info.
>> I'll try it out,as for the picture wire,is it all nichrome?
>
>All if it that I've ever seen.
>
>> Does it say on the pack and what size would I need?
>
>I've never seen it come in "sizes".  The stuff is all stranded anyway,
>and the strands all seem to be the same size.
>
>> As thin as is on estes solars?
>
>Thinner than the part you see, but thicker than the part you don't see.
>
>> If I use a lantern battery or whatever, can I use a great length of wire?
>> 100 ft or so?
>
>It's not so much the size if the battery, but the gauge of the wire.
>If you want to use 100 feet of wire, you will either have to go to 
>something like a gel cell and #12 stranded wire, or use a relay box.
>-- 
>
>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

I have been told by several people that nichrome wire can be purchased
from Edmound Scientific.  Don't know the price, but I expect that its
more than "picture wire".  More than once I have used the remaining half
of a used Estes igniter (clean nichrome not the black stuff) to launch
a second rocket.  I use a 12 V lantern battery and 20 feet of wire.  Always
works fine for me!

Bob

-- 

Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Vashon and Cold Power
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:02:45 GMT

smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
: Anyone remember the old Vashon rockets?  The "liquid fuel" Valkyrie 1 & 2
: rockets made of metal with the RP-100 propellant?  I know Estes bought them
: out and carried some of their stuff as "cold power" rockets.  I recall that
: RP-100 was diflourodichloromethane, and probably not good for the ozone
: layer, among other things, but I'm curious to know what experiences people
: had with these rockets from the dawn of the model rocket industry.  Also,
: could such rockets be flown wit something a bit more environmentally friendly
: than diflourodichloromethane?

I am not sure that they were Vashon rockets, but I had a couple of such
rockets. Even with very light construction, they were severely underpowered
If the temperature was very low, you were lucky if they even cleared the
launch pad by more than a few feet.

I never did buy any fuel refills - I thought the rockets were a wasted effort.
I just went back to the good old reliable solid fuel engines.

Bill
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Vashon and Cold Power
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:47:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.2152
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr11.000642.4786@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, jack@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jack Kobzeff) writes:
> Heck, I see the cost for some of the rockets that are still around costing 5
> or 6 times what they used to cost. Isn't that much higher than inflation
> would indicate?

Heck, most of the NOSE CONES cost more than what entire kits used to cost.

About 10 years ago, Dan Winings needed a bunch of NC5 nose cones for
international models.  They cost $1.50 each!  Instead, he bought 30
Mosquito kits, for which he only had to pay 99c each, and threw the 
rest of the kit away...
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Quest?
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:50:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr16.142915.22388@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:
> Quest is a new Model Rocket company.  I do not have the address with me,
> but I suggest you look for them in your hobby store.

519 West Lone Cactus Drive, Phoenix AZ 85027-2921; (602) 582-3438.

> Well, let me tell you about my mail order to Quest. 
> The friendly sales person said that they would
> prefer to send me a catalog and then let me place my order.  Also she said
> mail orders would not be shipped until Feb 1992 anyway.  OK!  The catalog
> arrived in less than one week.  On 1 Feb 1992 I placed an order.  In March
> 1992, 3-4 weeks later, I called Quest to check on the order.  I was told
> that they were behind because they were trying to get all of the orders
> to local hobby shops filled.  OK, no problem!  My order was due to be shipped
> to me in 3 weeks.  In April 1992 (last week) I called Quest again to check
> on the order.  In a nice friendly way I was told that my order was due to be 
> shipped in 3 MORE WEEKS.  WELL IN TWO MORE WEEKS I WILL CANCEL THIS ORDER
> IF IT IS NOT SHIPPED.  THUS I RECOMMEND YOU PURCHASE QUEST PRODUCTS AT YOUR
> LOCAL HOBBY SHOP!  Remember, this is only one report of a SINGLE problem.
> Also remember that Quest is a NEW company.  I still plan to by Quest products
> but only those that I can by LOCALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I do not think that I will
> place a mail order with them again until I hear better reports about their
> service!

Quest is doing something relatively novel, which may account for this
strange behavior.  They are selling two completely discrete lines of kits!
One line is for retail distribution only.  It is distributed by Hobbico,
who is a big investor (part owner, I believe), and they ship it to hobby 
stores.  Meanwhile, they have an "educational line" which they sell
themselves by mail order.  You probably ordered from that catalog (their
retail catalog is purple and the only address on it is Hobbico's).

Rumor on the street is that Quest has been late shipping product (what 
else is new for a start-up).  So when the rubber hits the road, the
product they're going to produce first will be Hobbico's.  And since
few or none of the kits are in common with their own mail-order biz,
those probably have the lowest priority, and that's what happened to you.

If you ordered by mail, they have 30 days to ship your order or they have
to ship you a postcard asking if you want to cancel or wait longer.  That's
true of all mail-order businesses.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe)
Subject: Re: Fuse
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:19:29 GMT

In article <2075@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>> Also,if it's illegal,why do they sell it in hobby stores all over cleveland?
>
>It's illegal to use it IN MODEL ROCKETS.  It's not illegal to sell it.
>If the hobby stores sell it specifically for use with model rockets,
>they're breaking the law.  In anyevent, most hobby shops are abysmally 
>ignorant when it comes to model rocketry regulations, or the hobby in 
>general.  That doesn't mean you should be.
>-- 
>
>cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
>OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

I've often wondered why hobby shops put the fuse by the model rockets since it
is against the NAR safety code. Can a hobby shop be held liable if someone
buys their fuse and causes an accident with a model rocket? What if an insured 
NAR member uses fuse (not electrically ignited thermalite) and causes some kind
of accident, will he still be covered even though he violated the code? 

It sounds like Estes has been through this before...

Why do they even sell the stuff anymore? Seems it's only good for questionable
uses.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Wiersbe		 
AT&T Bell Labs		
hrbob@ihlpb.att.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Comanche-3 (will I ever see it again?)
Keywords: multistage
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:25:14 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr15.142452.18369@bnr.ca>, mdoug@bnr.ca (Doug MacLean) writes:
> After reading the launch instructions for the Comanche-3...I'm starting to think
> that if I ever launched this thing, fully loaded, with a D12-0, C6-0, C6-7 config.,  
> I'll never see it again (over 2600 feet!?). They recommend 1 tracker per booster stage, that's 2 people, and 2 trackers for the final stage, that's 2 more people; not to mention the underlined recommendation of 'only on CALM DAYS' 
> Does anyone have experience with this rocket, or similar multi-stagers? 

I've seen a lot of these boogers launched, and only two successful launches
with all three stages.  The most common failure mode is that a lower stage
engine blows out at staging but doesn't take the stage with it.  The stage
gets crisped, and the bird falls out of the sky (nozzle becomes ineffective).
The next most common is simple staging failure.

I was the guy with a 20-minute flight on a D-C-C combination two Chicago 
NARAMS ago.  First and only flight of that rocket!  There's certainly
nowhere I could fly it around here!  I sure wouldn't use the parachute
again, either...
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: Re: Fuse
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 03:45:41 GMT



I'm not saying to just yell at kids near the pad,if you're not ignorant you
don't launch from a field packed with little kids,I launch in isolation from
the public.If anyone comes and decides to watch they usually stay in their
cars unless they're with me.If they
do get out,most people have enough sense to stay away from a rocket,most
parents are responsible and don't let
their kids run free.I stay close enough
to it that I could stop them anyway.
I don't run half a mile away,I go about 50 to 100 feet and could easily
stop anyone from getting within 15 of
the pad,especially a toddler.

The stores don't say it's for rockets exclusively,it hangs on the wall next to
them.In fact,this store is in a suburb of cleveland and has much tougher cops
and laws than cleveland who doesn't
allow it's sale.

I guess everyone has their own preferences,I've never seen anyone get hurt
from using fuse.You can't tell me it's any different than an igniter in that it
takes a long time to burn and in case of a misfire you can't be sure.
A fuse just won't sit there and smoulder for 5 minutes if it does not ignite
the engine,some may take a little longer than other pieces,simply wait until
you see no smoke,then wait 3 or so
minutes before going near the pad.
You said to wait a minute with an electrical igniter so what's 2 minutes?You
have to wait either way.

I wouldn't reccomend fuse for children in the hobby,let them have the joy :)
of pressing the button and going ooh ahh.They don't know how to figure the 
seconds etc that have to do with fuse.

As for the law,I've never seen or heard of any law like this,although other
stupid laws exist so I guess this one could also.
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:37:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: rsd0.1992Apr9.223727.6703
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept

In article <2068@transfer.stratus.com>,cdt@sw.stratus.com (C.D. Tavares) writes:
|> Make your own igniters if you must.  All you need is a cheap roll of
|> picture-hanging wire, some clear dope, and a ballpoint pen.  A 12V
|> battery will fire these like nobody's business.

Ok, C.D., I don't mind showing my ignorance.  The wire and dope I understand. 
What's the point of the ball-point pen?

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR# 13559
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Fire Marshal Bill
Reply-To: tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:43:10 GMT

Fire Marshal Bill: Is this guy for real?
Heaven help the crazy!
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Questions From a Spectator
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:31:49 GMT

billg@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Bill Gingras) writes:
: 
: Yesterday, I was in a park close to home when I saw a guy with a rather
: LARGE rocket that he was about to launch.  I didn't ask any questions,
: but now my curiosity is getting the most of me.
: 
: I was never into this hobby myself, but when I was younger, my brother
: used to launch rockets of the "Estes" type.  Well the rocket I saw
: yesterday was HUGE.  I'd say it was about three feet tall and the decal
: on it said "initiator" or something like that (I'm assuming that is the
: brand, or something).  I guess the motors required to launch such a
: beast must be more powerful than the "estes" type.  Where do you buy
: these things?  Do you need a special permit to buy the motors (in
: California)?  How much are these types of kits?  Motors?  Are there any
: clubs in the San Francisco Bay Area that use these types of rockets?
: 
: Thanks in advance!!

Yes, the name of the rocket is "Initiator". I have built and launched
one. It is produced by Aerotech.  It is on the borderline between standard
model-rocketry and high-power rocketry.  It uses engine sizes of E through
G. I believe it is ok to launch them with the normal permit, if one is
required in your locality, when using the E engine. The F engine makes
it too heavy for model-rocketry requirements, at liftoff - although it
is ok at burnout. The G engine makes it too heavy period. If you are
going to be launching the rocket into controlled airspace, which begins
at about 1500 ft above ground level in many areas of the country, then
you need an FAA waver for F and G engine launches.

They are available through mailorder. I do not know what the motor 
purchase requirements are in your state. There should be a NAR chapter
in your area. C.D. - could you help here?

As mentioned above, there is another set of rocketry buffs - high
power. The engine and rocket size pretty much starts where model 
rocketry leaves off. I believe engines up through O are currently
certified for use. The NAR is just getting started with a high
power program. The other high-power group is the Tripoli Rocketry
Association. If you are interested in such rockets, I would suggest
joining both associations.

Bill
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Old Estes Catalogs
Date: 16 Apr 92 08:57:22 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Apr16.042328.19900@news.Hawaii.Edu> helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo) writes:
>>>Somehow I don't feel as old anymore 8-).  I remember starting to fly model
>>>rockets in 1970.
>>
>>Thanks a lot! B-)
>*********
>Sorry I will try not to make coments about one's age.  8-).  In any event
>for all I know we could be the same age and started to fly when you were
>7!

Well, Helen, we started the same year, but I was 18. I know that's 
just about the time that most people are starting to lose interest, 
but in California way back then, model rockets were illegal, mostly, 
and it took until the year I graduated high school (1970) that the 
laws were changed to let us start a club (with an adult (>21) advisor 
to buy the engines).

I'd been building models since my freshman year so there was a lot
of pent up demand!

As for age, I'm crusing up on the dreaded four-zero RSN. I couldn't even
starve to death in my remaining time :-)

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||             Dr. Suess, Jim Irwin, Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov        ||
||                      All in one year, [sigh] :-(                        ||
=============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HP
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:12:01 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr14.204140.22033@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry) writes:
> If you have the number of a company from whom I can get High power engines
> please leave me mail/

Whoever keeps the FAQ can re-post it, BUT:

None of the dealers will sell HP engines (G or over) to you unless you have
a current NAR or Tripoli certification.  When you join the NAR, you will
get the same list automatically anyway.  The number is 800-262-4872.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: sejones@csws1.ic.sunysb.edu (Stefan E Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:13:11 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

An inexpensive launch system may be made from:
2 (two) microclips, available from Radio Shack in ten-packs
1 (one) 20' extension cord. The kind made from rubbery, dense plastic is
best; avoid the brittle stuff.
2 (two) large (3"-4") battery clips, also available from Radio Shack.
1 (one) doorbell button, w/o lights or other frills.
1 (one) chunk of wood
Assorted screws and u-nails.

Clip the extension cord's plug and socket-assembly off, leaving 2"-3" of
zip cord attached to each (these will form your safety key and safety key
socket). Solder the battery clips to one end of the resulting 19' of zip
cord, and the micoclips to the other. Measure about 5' from the battery
clip end and split the zip cord leads apart for about 1'. Splice the
doorbell button into one lead, and the socket assembly into the other.
Join the leads of the plug, forming a loop.

This circuit does not have a continuity light, but one can be added
easily. The leads to the bulb would be added to either side of the
doorbell button.

                  Button
               /---{o}----============================x microclipss
X=============/----[ ]---/
Battery           Socket
clips

With bulb added:

                  /--b--/
                /      /
            /---+-{o}-+--==

The button and socket are nailed to the above-mentioned board for easy
handling.

I've used this setup for years without incident. I use a 12v car battery
(still in the car) but a lantern battery should work as well.

Many years ago, I had an accident with a fuse-lit model. The swivel on the
launch pad (a well-worn Port-a-Pad) gave in a gust of wind just after I
scrambled away from the launcher after lighting the fuse. The model flew off
the pad at a 30 degree angle, straight into the fence surrounding an in-use
tennis court! I began using electrical ignition soon after, and have never
looked back.
--SEJ
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: Re: Fuse
Reply-To: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 00:22:56 GMT


Oh yeah,enlighten all us illegal types.
How do you make your own igniters out of
dope and wire and a pen?
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Igniters
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:03:38 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <BILLW.92Apr15012355@regal.cisco.com>, billw@regal.cisco.com (William ) writes:
>     > I'll try it out,as for the picture wire,is it all nichrome?
> 
>     All if it that I've ever seen.
> 
> Actually, I think picture wire is made from iron or steel. 

Hm.  The stuff I have is totally non-magnetic.

I believe they also have "toaster repair kits" that have nichrome in them.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...