HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grover@emunix.emich.edu (Grover Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: Why are game copiers illegal
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:40:34 GMT
Organization: Eastern Michigan University

In article <3177@isgtec.isgtec.com> ken@isgtec.com (Ken Newman) writes:

>I keep seeing this nonsense repeated over and over. Why do you want
>to back up ROM chips? How many cartridges have you had fail on you?
>To the net in general, how many cartridges do you have that completely
>wore out, or broke? You have to try pretty hard to wreck a cartridge.

I don't know about you, but I have had several game cartridges that have
gone bad (most of them are several years old, like old Atari games) that
I would still like to play, but I have no backups, and no way to replace
the thing at this point.

With the current cost of some of these game ($70!!) I certainly want to
make sure I won't ever need to re-buy the cartridge. 

Sure, maybe ROM chips are more durable than floppies, but they're not
indestructable.

>> I agree totally.  I see no reason why game copiers can't be bought and
>> sold in the US providing their advertised as backup devices and not 
>> a machine to get free games.  Granted, many people would use it for 
>> that purpose but that still wouldn't stop their sale.
>
>How in the world are you going to stop people from copying rented games
>then? Which will destroy the rental business and sales of cartridges,
>if the copiers are cheap enough. 

Actually, I seriously doubt it would hurt the rental business.
True, there are people who would rather copy a rented game than buy it,
but there is NOTHING inherently illegal about the copier machine themselves.
Not any more so than Xerox machines at the library, anyway.

>Should I sell guns cheap to anybody,
>just because some really want to keep them for self-defence, but others
>will go shooting people and robbing stores? Where do you draw the line?

You are defeating your own argument.  There are places that do sell guns,
all sorts of guns: big ones, little ones, cheap ones, expensive ones.
Guess what?!  People do still buy them for legal and illegal purposes.

>I think its sensible to make cartridge copiers illegal for two reasons:
>	1) it's stupid to back up ROM chips

They're not indestructable, and they're not cheap to replace.

>	2) cartridge rental and sales are big business, just
>		like CD's are. Both need to be protected by making them
>		immune to making perfect digital copies.

Okay, then why do we still have stereos that can record from the radio?
Why do we have Xerox machines in the library?

Since I began reading this group, I have noticed that some of these
devices are indeed available from specialty shops on the two coasts,
so obviously they are not 100% illegal.  Of course, the gaming industry
is not going to support their sale in this country, (quite the
contrary).  
-- 
 __                                                                        __
(__)  Grover Thomas                   InterNet:  grover@emunix.emich.edu  (__)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
From: gkomatsu@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Galen Tatsuo Komatsu)
Subject: Re: Flicky
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 09:10:03 GMT

In article <55903@icspub.ics.osaka-u.ac.jp> matusita@ics.osaka-u.ac.jp (Makoto MATSUSHITA) writes:
>On 28 Aug 92 08:48:09 GMT, gkomatsu@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Galen Tatsuo Komatsu) said:
>Galen> 	Flicky turns out to be as we net-folk say "bilingual".  Plug it
>Galen> into a Japanese unit, and you get the Japanese names:

>What is target machine ? Genesis, or Master System ?

	I bought the (American) Genesis cart, and am playing on my (Japanese)
MegaDrive.  ...and having load of fun! =^)

>(In japan, 'Flicky' is only available on MEGA-CD (CD-ROM system for
>Megadrive, japanese version of Genesis).)

	It was never released in cartridge form?  <puzzled expression>


	...is 10 seconds the fastest time possible for the first level?
I can't seem to do it any faster (yet...)

--
         Galen Komatsu           !     Apple//e     !      XTC
gkomatsu@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu  !  Sega MegaDrive  !  Sakai Noriko
  ar592@cleveland.freenet.edu    !    Atari 7800    !    Checkers
Xref: sparky rec.games.video:17743 rec.games.video.arcade:7106
From: whare@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.video,rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: Good journals, magazines on game design and marketing?
Date: 31 Aug 92 00:42:37 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Aug27.053217.17876@u.washington.edu>, cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes:
> 
> I'm interested not in the guts of the games so much as the process of
> designing the play and game marketing.  I know there is an association
> of game designers but I haven't its name; it publishes a journal, too.
> Anything you can provide of assistance, I'm grateful.  Email is fine.
> 
> Bob Jacobson
-- 
I wouldn't mind such information, either. Email is fine.

Antony Hare
---
 _        _  _                            
|_)   _  (  (       `` You either lead, follow                 whare@ac.dal.ca
|__) (_) _) _)          or get out of the way  ''                Antony R Hare
---- COMPUTERS                                       Vice President, Marketing
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: Neo Geo
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:29:30 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <1992Aug30.234054.4580@ecst.csuchico.edu>, tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
> 
> >I know that the games cost twice as much, but they are also twice as
> >good (from a grachics point of view). What do you think?
> 
> I dunno about that. I've looked at N/G a lot at the arcade, and they
> just don't seem to be all that great. They're definitely better than
> 8-bit NES, but I don't know if the huge price differential justifies
> what I feel to be a marginal improvement in graphics.
> 

I rented the Neo-Geo system (I posted a review a while back) and I wanted to
point out that the graphics are VASTLY superior to the Genesis or SNES.  The
reason it doesn't look so fantastic in the arcade is because you are comparing
it to other arcade games which have graphics that are much better then any
home system also.  In one of the local arcades here they have an SNES coin
operated machine and the graphics really look incredibly terrible in that
environment even though they look pretty good at home.  The quality of the
N.G. graphics is especially apparent if you are playing on a larger screen
TV (mine is 27") where the graphics on the Genesis (and presumably the SNES
-- I don't have one) look very blocky, the N.G.'s look very smooth and
crisp.

All in all I liked the Neo-Geo and more then just for it's graphics, the
games I rented were good games in themselves.  However, it is very expensive.
If you can afford it, I think it's worth it, but that's a big if.

Steve
Xref: sparky rec.games.video:17730 alt.games.lynx:518 comp.sys.atari.st:12986
From: cjoseph@tcpbbs.pcn.org (Chris Joseph)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video,alt.games.lynx,comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Lynx Batman 2 MILLION SELLOUT!!!! (Re: Lynx review! KUNG FOOD)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 12:44:27 EDT
Organization: TCP BBS, Cleveland, Ohio

jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:

> 
> Atari news saying that people bought out over 2 MILLION
> Batman Returns game very fast!! Batman coupon said 'only good
> for while Batman game stocked' so many people lost out on offer.
> BUT Atari has good heart so they will mail Batman game to people 
> when their factory finished making more copies!
> 
> Also MANY more NEW Lynx games coming out in 3-4 weeks!!!!  
> By middle October 20-25 NEW games pouring out same time as
> new Falcon 030! 
> 
> Atari Lynx was top choice of VG&E magazine poll now smart people
> of the world are throwing away PRETENDERS TO THE THRONE Game Gear
> and Gameboy and saving huge eye doctor bill!


Did you happen to notice the absence of the Lynx in both the Sears and
the J.C. Penny's CHRISTMAS CATALOGS?  Someone isn't going to be selling
Lynxes this Christmas season...

Chris Joseph

~~~~~~~~~
cjoseph@tcpbbs.pcn.org (Chris Joseph)
From: scottw@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Scott Weintraub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: Why are game copiers illegal
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:48:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: pdnfido.1992Aug29.204824.13719
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

While they should be legal in the US, they're not.  I really don't know why
though.  It probably has something to do with meeting FCC standards or some
other government organization.  I've heard a story about a man who was recently
arrested in Chinatown (NY) for illegal over-the-counter sale of these items.

In Japan, there was a case where a company was selling NES copiers.  Nintendo
of Japan took them to court and after a long and grueling trial, lost the
case.  Nintendo then turned around and bought the rights to the Nintendo 
copier and I'm not sure exactly what they're doing with it now.

If anybody has read the rec.games.video FAQ, they have a list of lawsuits that
Nintendo has been involved in.  I'll tell you one thing, legal or not, the
first company that begins manufacturing game copiers for the SNES or NES better
be prepared to go to court.  Nintendo doesn't stand for any kind of development/
hack on their system.  Look what they did with the Game Genie.

Lastly, I don't care what anybody here says.  Yes, buying a game copier and
using it to get free copies of rented games or a friend's game is illegal.
Anybody who says that is 100% correct.  Now, if I legitimately purchase a
copy of let's say Street Fighter II, I have every right to make one 
additional copy of the game, providing it is for my use and nobody else's.
I can also copy a book I buy, software I buy, ROMs that I buy (one could
argue that game carts fall under the category of ROMs), a CD or cassette
tape that I buy or any other piece of copyrighted material that *I* buy.

To all those people who still say that they're illegal, please, show me where
in the lawbooks does it say this.  Back up your argument...

-- 
     /// A3000-25/52       * Scott Weintraub - Long Island, NY     *   In
    ///  DCTV (yeah!)      * e-mail: scottw@pdnfido.fidonet.org    *DreAms i
\\\///   HP Paintjet (yuck)*                                       *  WalK
 \\X/    USR Courier HST   * Letterman is the king of latenight!!! *WiTh yOu
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
From: grover@emunix.emich.edu (Grover Thomas)
Subject: Re: SNES: Zelda III Help 
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:08:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.142102.8548@u.washington.edu> aleran@byron.u.washington.edu (Steve Umbehocker) writes:
>When i'm in the dark world, I find this frog-guy in the bottom-left of the
>village. When I go back to the light world he is a little old guy. My 
>problem is I don't know what to do with him. I can't go anywhere because
>he's always following me around...any help would be appreciated...

This is the smithy's friend that was lost.  Take him back to the
blacksmith's shop in the light world.
-- 
 __                                                                        __
(__)  Grover Thomas                   InterNet:  grover@emunix.emich.edu  (__
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
From: ric@netcom.com (Richard A. Bretschneider)
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy II Adventure Help needed!
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 00:54:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

tclark@hptc.mentorg.com (Tony Clark) writes:
>OK, Ihave made it to the desert near JADD and I am looking for 2 things.
>The first is the Magic Book of ICE. I think I need this to locate the
>second item, which is the Medusa's Cave. I have received the clue about
>Palm trees and 8. I think I know where the cave is but I cannot figure
>out how to enter. Any hints? 

In my opinion, this is the worst point in the game.  Worse than the 
airseed problem in Final Fantasy Legend.   I don't know if this is 
enough to figure it out, but in this occasion, 8 is a figure, not a
number.

Write to me if you want it plain.  It won't spoil anything for you,
and it will get you past a rather stupid puzzle.

-Ric

-- 
                 
               | The face of a child can say it all, 
Ric            | especially the mouth part of the face.
Bretschneider  |
AKA            | If God dwells inside us, like some people say, I sure
ric@netcom.com | hope he likes enchiladas, because that's what he's getting.
From: gt2862c@prism.gatech.EDU (gt2862c THAM,JEFF C)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: What is a TurboDuo?
Date: 30 Aug 92 11:01:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

What is a TurboDuo? And does it require separate media from a TurboGrafx CD?

Jeff
From: x91underwoo1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: NEEDED: HELP ON MANHUNTER!!!!
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:43:43 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

I need HELP!

I have modules A B and C but have no where to use them yet..
I just ripped up the radio to get module C and cant find what to do next.
I must have missed a name of someone or something!!  Any hints would be
greatly appreciated..
-Don.
From: louisc@lsil.com (Louis Chui)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Survey?? (Was: Why are game copiers illegal)
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:44:34 GMT
Reply-To: louisc@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

With this talk about the different uses of a game copier. (Both legal and illegal)
It would be very interesting to conduct a survey of all the people who owns/owned a
game copier, and see what are the different uses we have for this hefty beast.

Now, guys, I'd like to see if anyone is interested in such a survey. If enough of you
are interested, I might come up with some mean to count your votes.

We might even be able to add this piece of info into the Game Copier FAQ, right? And
instead of arguing with speculation, we might have some fact to base upon, right?

Thanks a lot for listening.

Louis Chui

P.S. For all of you who's been corresponding with me through the netcom address, please
     note that my email is now: louisc@lsil.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.video,alt.games.lynx
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Subject: Re: Too much me-too for the Lynx? (was Re: Lynx review! KUNG FOOD)
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 14:02:45 GMT

In article <l9trcsINN6hs@aludra.usc.edu>, rjung@aludra.usc.edu (Robert A. Jung) writes:
> 
> >Is any one from Atari listening?  If you try to compete with Sega and
> >Nintendo by producing games like what they have, YOU WILL FAIL!
> 
>   I have to disagree here. While I don't think a Lynx library of nothing but
> beat-em-ups and space shooters is great, I also don't think that having them
> present is A Bad Thing.
> 
>   IMO, the best tack for Atari is a 50-50 approach.

Agreed, but I'm beginning to think Atari is taking the 100-0 approach.
However, maybe I'm jumping the gun a little bit -- let's hope so!

> 
>   And who says the Lynx is guaranteed to lose if it tries to compete with
> "games for the masses"? There's nothing about the machine that makes it
> unsuitable to support mainstream genres; I can imagine how the machine's
> hardware and sprite effects can make for some way-impressive games.
> 
> >Please go back to original games with unique concepts that do NOT appeal to
> >the masses, but do appeal to a smaller, but still significantly large group
> >who are looking for something different.
> 
>   What makes you think Atari is ignoring the players who want something
> different? Don't forget some of those titles on the horizon: STEEL TALONS,
> LEMMINGS, PINBALL JAM, DRACULA THE UNDEAD, DAEMONSGATE. I think you're letting
> one ninja-combat title distort your view of things...

Let's hope so.  Actually Steel Talons is out, but I haven't bought it for
two reasons.  Most important, I didn't have the money when I saw it, but
also because I was suprised (and dissapointed) to find that it does NOT
support multiple players (at least the box does not say "Lynx Up".)  Does
anyone know for sure?  It may still be worth getting, but I was really hoping
it would at least support two players.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
From: ehrhart@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jeffrey Ehrhart)
Subject: Re: Bugs in Genesis Forgotten World?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 22:47:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <66874@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt2862c@prism.gatech.EDU (gt2862c THAM,JEFF C) writes:
|> Does anyone know if there are bugs in the Genesis Forgotten World?
|> I was playing a two-player game last night and the game locked up on
|> me unexpectedly. Music plays, but the screen doesn't move. Is my copy
|> bad?
  My copy did that as well once.  But, I have never had it happen to me 
since.

-- 
Jeff Ehrhart
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
From: joe@otto.lvsun.com (Joe Barger)
Subject: real game controllers
Organization: Hospitality Network
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 00:09:06 GMT

	What is the deal with the home systems today I mean when you
	look back at the Atari 2600 you could get any type of controller
	you wanted (I.E. Joystick, Paddle, Steering, Trackball) 

	I would really love to see some games with dedicated steering
	controllers.  I loved playing Warlords with paddles and would
	purchase it again with the proper controller. Are all the game
	designers DUMB "follow the leader" make a copy of it. Shure I 
	want copys!!!!!!!!!! but of classics not another side scroller
	or shooter. 

		MISSLE COMMAND  Warlords   Defender  Robotron
	WWF :)  All recreated with the game player in mind to give it
	great FEEL all the games today lack feel 

		Feel: a sensation of active control over the outcome.

	not memorize pattern get further playback memmory pattern 
	get further mindlessness
	

	desperatly seeking reinovation (is that a word)

	How do you feel???

-- 
*******************************************************************************
     Joe Barger (joe@otto.hn.com {psivax,jimi, mirror}!otto!joe)
 The odds get even You name the game The odds get even The stakes are the same
			You bet your LIFE!   RUSH
From: michael@delfin.com (Michael White)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Genesis: need help for Super Hydlide
Keywords: Genesis, Super Hydlide
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:07:55 GMT
Organization: The Church of the Holy Hand-Grenade
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Greetings, Net!  I have been playing Super Hydlide for a few days,
and have gotten to the point where I need the Space Suit, but I
cannot find it.  I have the Space Compass, and I have searched the
(formerly submerged) palace quite a bit, but I still cannot find
the Space Suit.  Where is that dang thing?  I know I need it before
I plunge ahead...

Also, there is a spot in the graveyard beneath the warehouse
(the area around which you meet the dragon) which, when you walk
up to it, flashes a meesage on the screen which says something
like, "There are some ancient ruins here, but you cannot make 
them out."  When CAN you read these ruins?  My character is pretty
smart (maxed out at 255), so I assume it's not related to
intrinsics, but what does it depend upon?



Thanks for any help!
From: BARKAN@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: To @Pluto who wrote re:Zelda 3
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:27:59 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I accidentally erased your message before reading it.
Please send it again if you read this. Sorry!
From: scottw@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Scott Weintraub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: Why are game copiers illegal
Date: 24 Aug 92 01:40:18 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

In article <1992Aug21.135940.27537@zip.eecs.umich.edu> grover@emunix.emich.edu (Grover Thomas) writes:
>>>Too bad we never did get to the answer of "Why are
>>>game copiers illegal in the U.S.?" thread.
>>
>>Seems simple to me: their only purpose is violating copyright laws. The
>>same reason that it's illegal to sell unauthorized cable/satellite TV
>>decoders.
>
>Now let's think a minute:  what about VCRs or computer softwares like
>Copy II+ and Copy II PC?  
>
>My understanding is that anyone has the right to make archives of
>softwares (and perhaps otehr material), so this should also apply
>to video games.
>
>Please note that I am not condoning piracy, but these kind of erratic
>laws really bother me.  Why should it be OK to copy my Apple software,
>but not OK to copy my nintendo software?
>-- 
>()()()  Grover Thomas   ()()()

I agree totally.  I see no reason why game copiers can't be bought and
sold in the US providing their advertised as backup devices and not 
a machine to get free games.  Granted, many people would use it for 
that purpose but that still wouldn't stop their sale.

-- 
     /// A3000-25/52       * Scott Weintraub - Long Island, NY     *   In
    ///  DCTV (yeah!)      * e-mail: scottw@pdnfido.fidonet.org    *DreAms i
\\\///   HP Paintjet (yuck)*                                       *  WalK
 \\X/    USR Courier HST   * Letterman is the king of latenight!!! *WiTh yOu
From: hartja@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (-= Souther N. =-)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video
Subject: Re: [SNES/SF] Games for Sale
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:31:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) writes:

>rnakhwa@us.oracle.com (Rajesh Nakhwa) writes:

>>SF to SNES adaptor (allows you to play SF cartridges on a SNES) - $9.95 obo.

>Huh?  Is this thing for real?  Does SF= 8-bit Nintendo?  I have a bunch
>of cartidges I'd like to play again, but I'd like to sell my old
>Nintendo.  How well does it work?

>(I had heard something like this was in the works, but I didn't know if
>it was out.)

>Later,
>Bob


how the hell do you get 'SF' to mean a 16bit-to-8bit converter? 'SF' is Super
Famicom (Japanese Super Nintendo).  Maybe you should think before you open your
mouth and make a total fool out of your self.  
Xref: sparky rec.games.video:17659 alt.games.lynx:501
From: jonke@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Stephen Jonke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video,alt.games.lynx
Subject: Re: Lynx review! KUNG FOOD
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:16:05 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

In article <l9rb8gINN5uf@aludra.usc.edu>, rjung@aludra.usc.edu (Robert A. Jung) writes:
> 
> 
>   And now, for something completely different...
> 
> =============================================================================
> KUNG FOOD
> 1 player, horizontal game


Is it just me, or are there others who think the recent release of many
Sega-esque games for the Lynx is more then a bit disturbing?  I said many
moons ago that the advent of Batman Returns for the Lynx was one of the
worst things that could happen to it.  It seemed like Atari had conceded that
brain dead formulaic games are the way to go.  Now with Kung Food out I'm
starting to think that maybe the Lynx really is doomed to become a Game Gear
in disguise!  I'd have bought the Game Gear if that was what I wanted!

Is any one from Atari listening?  If you try to compete with Sega and
Nintendo by producing games like what they have, YOU WILL FAIL!!!!  Please,
please go back to original games with unique concepts that do NOT appeal to
the masses, but do appeal to a smaller, but still significantly large group
who are looking for something different.  There Nintendo and Sega can not
compete, but you have proven that you can.  Don't throw it all away now.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.video