HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:40:24 GMT
Reply-To: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)
Organization: Paging, Wireless Data Group of Motorola, Inc.

I am looking for connections to the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, and any 
churches in the local area with sympathies.  Can someone give me an address?

Rick Granberry

|  Rick Granberry                          Phone (407) 364-2619 |
|  Motorola Email CRG001             rick_granberry@pts.mot.com |
|  I think we're all Bozos on this Bus!                uh, Clem |
From: topcat!tom@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Francis Schaeffer
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:16:07 GMT
Organization: Applied Presuppositionalism, Ltd.

kmarko@hpbs654.boi.hp.com (Kurt Marko) writes:

> On recommendation of a good friend, I am starting to read a few books
> by Francis Schaeffer.  Aside from the somewhat terse biographies on
> the book jackets, I'm wondering if someone could fill in some
> background on his life and work.  What Protestant 'tradition' does he
> come from?  Has he had influence on any denomination in particular?
> Anything else I should know? :) 

Francis Schaeffer was an evangelical Presbyterian, specifically he was part
of the group of conservative Presbyterians who broke from the old northern
Presbyterian Church in the 1930s and helped start what later became the
Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod (which later merged with
the Presbyterian Church in America).  He pastored churches in America
before going as a missionary to Switzerland.  It was there that he and his
wife Edith founded L'Abri Fellowship.  Schaeffer has had significant
influence among convervative Presbyterian and Reformed Christians.  In his
book _A Christian Manifesto_ he advanced the idea of needing a consistently
biblical worldview in order to deal effectively with a fallen world.

You might be interested to know that his son, Francis Schaeffer V, recently
converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.


--
Tom Albrecht
From: jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: MAX LUCADO'S _GOD_CAME_NEAR_
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:28:01 GMT
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY

hello, everybody!!

i was browsing in a local Christian book store, and I ran across one
of those day-by-day "flip calendars" (i don't know what else to call
'em) that was based on Max Lucado's newest book entitled
_God_Came_Near_.  I really liked the sampling of quotes and statements
taken from this book, and some of his others...

i was wondering if anyone out there has read anything by Mr. Lucado (i
haven't as of yet), and if you have, what are your thoughts?  has
anyone read this latest book?  i didn't see a copy of any of his books
at the store i was at--maybe they're so good they were out of stock?
from what i understand, he has several books out.  i was thinking of
reading something over my winter break from school (in addition to THE
Book, of course  :)  ).  i still haven't read Frank Peretti's
_This_Present_Darkness_, which everybody is telling me to read.
hmmmm....maybe i'll have to make a choice!!!

here's praying for a wonderful Christmas for you all--let's show the
world just how AWESOME of a gift Jesus was!!!

--LOOKING FORWARD TO THE ULTIMATE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.....

JENNY PRZYBYLINSKI
Skidmore College
saratoga springs

JPRZYBYL@scott.skidmore.edu
From: news@cbnewsk.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Does God intervene?
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:09:48 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs

In article <Dec.11.02.08.03.1992.13588@athos.rutgers.edu> sungho@crhc.uiuc.edu (Sungho Kim) writes:
>Hello,
>I would like to hear from Christians on the following problem.
>I see innocent victims suffer and die all over the world and see that 
>God does not do anything about it.  So I conclude he does not intervene 
>and therefore does not respond to prayers either.  What I am saying is
>he is aware of everything but decided leave everything to us.
>So, I see no point in asking God for mercy when one is sick.

I see your point.  It seems to be a waste of energy to ask for something
that you won't get, or that you'd get even if you didn't ask.  However,
in "The Varieties of Religious Experience" by William James, he shows
how prayer, even if it is unanswered is beneficial to us psychologically.
If you look at the Lord's prayer, 
	greeting:  Father
	praise:    hallowed be thy name
	petitions: Thy will be done
	           give us our daily bread
	           lead us from evil
	           forgive us 
	promise:   as we forgive others
It reminds us that God is our father, that we recognize that his will
is good, we ask him to provide for our needs, we ask him to help us
avoid evil, we ask for forgiveness, we promise to frogive others.  We
were taught to pray this way, because we will always have this prayer
answered.  We leave what we cannot control up to God's providence and
we take responsibility for what we can do.

Joe Moore
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: A Parable
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:03:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47218
Distribution: world
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <47092@ogicse.ogi.edu>, 
kish@kish.rutgers.edu (Kish) writes:

> Roger ?  Raj ? Others ??  Why should we wait 4 lifetimes for
> enlightenment when we can have it NOW ???  And why does seem to be
> necessary to have so much patience that we have effectively foregone
> enlightenment (at least for ourselves :) in order to wake up this very
> minute ? 

Paramahansa Yogananda has always stressed that one can have Self-realization
in *this* lifetime through Kriya Yoga as taught through Self-Realization
Fellowship. If you can wake up this very minute, please do so :-) otherwise,
make the effort with whatever path you choose. Paramahansa Yogananda says that 
one must love God "as a miser loves money, as an ardent man loves his sweet-
heart, as a drowning person loves breath." This is the required attitude for 
awakening according to Swami Vivikananda also.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kish@kish.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: A Tantric Parable
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:48:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47415
Distribution: world
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

] Tagi:
] My Abyss said that this is much like credit.  One cannot obtain credit
] without a credit history.  One cannot begin a credit history without
] obtaining credit.  The dilemma may only be resolved through
] compassion, I think.  In the case of credit the credit company must
] see that its interests are secure.  In the case of freedom, one must
] see this about oneself.

Yes, compassion is *definitely* what is needed here.  Once bodhicitta
is flowing freely, what you have termed "euphoricism" can become a
workable path.

] Shunryu Suzuki:
] "So you should establish your practice in delusion.  To have
] delusion is practice.  This is to attain enlightenment
] before you realize it."
]
] Tagi:
] This is what I attempt to imply by my posts on 'The Path of the Laze'
] and what I think is meant by 'The word of Sin is Restriction'.
] Self-restriction may be very necessary in delusion, but
] when we can finally find the place where restriction is not necessary
] then we shall know we have released our delusion.

When you explain it this way, I don't find this such an alarming
statement.  Without such commentary, however, coupled with "Do what
thou wilt", it seems very likely to me that certain people will read
your words and give themselves permission to commit action which will
only reinforce an already desperately solid world.

] Tagi:
] Once we can release our need to change ourselves in order to feel at
] peace then we can settle into peacefulness immediately.

KATZ !!!


Yours in Dharma,
-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: revelations or lack thereof...
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:20:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47566
Distribution: world
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <47421@ogicse.ogi.edu>, 
billc@devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Bill Carter) writes:

>  "What sets apart the Buddha's Enlightenment from the experience
>  of other religious figures in world history is the absence of
>  any divine intervention, or trancendent illumination from some
>  higher-than-human sphere.  The truth to which the Buddha came
>  was entirely a discovery made by a human being, brought about
>  by his own efforts.  ...

Christ became the Christ by his own efforts, all the great ones became
so by their own efforts. According to Paramahansa Yogananda, the great
ones like Christ did not just fall out of some heavenly sphere onto earth
to help us mere mortals. They made the effort and told us we could do so 
also and succeed like them. They told us we are divine too but most of us
don't know it because we have not made the effort to know - delusion is
strong to tell us we are limited beings and nothing exists beyond the 5
senses. Human beings are divine but most are unaware. Buddha, Krishna, Christ,
Yogananda, came to tell us by their own examples that we can be free from
suffering and attain Bliss by knowing our true nature which is divine. "Thou
art That".


>  Even the original Buddhist goal of nirvana was the realization
>  that life's meaning lay in the here-and-now and not in some remote
>  realm or celestial state far beyond one's present existence."
> 

The great ones like Christ said that the kingdom of God is within, here-and-
now, not out-there-and-later. The truth of our present existence is that
we are not the body, we are not the limited mental computer, we are not
limited by any physical embodiment or physical universe. "Thou art That."

>  This is pretty nice to think about, somehow.  No wonder
>  Buddhism has done so well, though I never heard anyone
>  formulate it's appeal quite this way before.  Anyone care to
>  defend Hinduism as "revealed" and rightfully so, or maybe
>  to deny that it is "revealed"?
> 

This is a nonsectarian issue. Truth is not in words, philosophy, and scriptures
which only point to Truth. Truth must be experienced directly. All arguments
are among the followers and not the founders of Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu-
sim, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Everytime I think I manage to lose my mind, there it is again, sneaking up behind me.)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: buddhist symbolism for wisdom, compassion
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:53:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47216
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

does anyone know of any animal symbols which Buddhism uses
for wisdom and compassion? 

all I can think of is an elephant for wisdom, and I know
Kuan Yin is associated with horses.

thanks for any info
  ando
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Tagi@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Commentary on _Liber I_ (Interfaith Mysticism)
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:57:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47576
Distribution: world
Organization: ----

9212.18 e.v.


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.


COMMENTARY ON:

_Liber I: Liber B vel Magi_, by The Master Therion


KEY: [Expansions and bracketed text amidst quote are the commentary.]


"00 [1] One [Unity] is the Magus: [Maker, Creator, Source]
    [2] twain [Duality] His forces: [players: Yin/Yang; Silence/Speech]
    [3] four [Quaternity, God, Earth] His weapons.
                                       [power: Cup, Wand, Disk, Blade]
    [4] These are the seven [universal, maternal] vultures [purifiers]
          of evil. [darkness]
    [5] Thus is the art and craft [creation] of the Magus [Creator]
          but glamour [charm, magick, play]
    [6] How shall He destroy [negate, oppose] Himself?"


Expansions:

1. The Self is All. There is no resistance in the Magus. (Center)
2. The Poles of Duality provide guidance and propulsion. (Circle)
3. The Key to divinity is Nature. (Cross)
4. Liberation may be found here and now.
5. Magick is the play of consciousness.
6. Who am I but Pan?



"0 [1] Yet the Magus [Source] hath power upon [precedes]
         the Mother [Manifestation] both directly [dividing]
         and through Love. [Reunifying, Redeeming]
   [2] And the Magus [Source] is Love, [Reunion]
         and bindeth together [yoke, link]
         This and That [Other/Self, Yin/Yang]
         in His Conjuration." [Oath, Speech, Work, Creation]

Expansions:

1. The Tao is the Mother of the 10,000 things. (Lao Tzu)
2. The Spell of Agape is Unity through binding and release.



"1 [1] In the beginning [with Will] doth the Magus [Orator, God]
         speak Truth, [manifest divinity] and send forth [cast]
         Illusion and Falsehood [the Shadow]
         to enslave the soul. [creating dukkha]
   [2] Yet therein [in Maya] is the Mystery [Secret]
         of Redemption. [Liberation]

Expansions:

1. Karma brins dissatisfaction. (Fall)
2. The everyday mind is the mind of the Buddha. (Christ)


"2 [1] By His Wisdom [extended will] made He the Worlds; [Multiplicity]
   [2] the word that is God [OM, Perfect Liberator]
         is none other than He." [the Self]

Expansions:

1. Divine expression manifests diversity. (Many)
2. Divinity and self are not two. (One)


"3 [1] How shall He end [complete] His speech [manifestation]
         with Silence? [Void]
   [2] For He is Speech." [Logos]


Expansions:

1. The Lotus emerges and retires to the Mud.
2. Speech which remains Silence is Truth.



"4 [1] He is the First [Source, Parent] and the Last. [Manifest, Child]
   [2] How shall He cease to number Himself?" [resolve Multiplicity]

Expansions:

1. All, One and None are but masks of Maya.
2. The play of consciousness resolves itself.



To be continued......


Invoke me under my stars.   Love is the law, love under will.


I am I!


Frater (I) Nigris (666)
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: revelations or lack thereof...
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:31:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47565
Distribution: world
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

The way I have thought about this aspect of Buddhism is that the
Buddha said: "Just try this stuff I'm telling you, you'll see for
yourself that you are happier afterwards. Don't believe me, try it
yourself." 

That really appeals to me. Nobody asking for blind faith to an unseen
divinity. Nobody claiming such and such divinely inspired scripture is
infallible and to be taken literally. (Of course, Buddhism developed
some of this silliness later on, in some of its manifestations. ;-)

			cheers,
				Lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
From: vaisnavi@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (vaisnavi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: An old woman's gift to Buddha
Date: 19 Dec 92 08:48:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47575
Distribution: world
Organization: ----


   Once, when Buddha was in Rajagriha, he allotted a day in order
to  collect  charity. On that day,  he sat under a tree and began
receiving gifts. King Bimbisara came earlier on that day and gave
him  deeds  of  lands,  houses  and  valuable  properties. He was
followed by the Prince Ajata Shatru who donated Buddha many  rich
and  valuable  gifts.  Then  came grandees and wealthy merchants.
Buddha accepted all their gifts by extending his  right  hand  in
token thereof.

   Then came an old, shriveled woman and said to Buddha, "Lord, I
heard  about  your  appeal  for charity only this morning. I am a
poor old woman and have nothing. I was  eating  this  pomegrante,
and  had  eaten half when I heard the news. I had nothing else to
give but this half-pomegrante. So I  brought  it  along.  Please,
Lord, kindly accept this."

   The old woman looked at Buddha appealingly with her half-eaten
pomegrante.   Buddha  atonce  came  down himself and accepted her
gift with both hands, in deep gratitude.

   The King Bimbisara, the Prince Ajata  Satru,  rich  merchants,
and  all  those  who  were there were taken by surprise. The King
Bimbisara asked Buddha with respect, " O Blessed  One!  You  took
our  worthy  gifts  merely by extending your right hand from your
dais. Why did you receive the gift of this  old  woman,  a  half-
eaten  pomegrante,  with  your  both hands, that too, coming down
yourself from your dais? "

    Buddha smiled at the King and then replied,  "Because,  King,
she  gave  her  *all*,  while  the  rest  of  you  merely  gave a
*fraction* of what you have."

 [ From Buddhism ]

 peace,
 vaisnavi.
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Book by Lao Tzu
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:38:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47568
Distribution: world
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <47412@ogicse.ogi.edu>, todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
> On NPR's Morning edition the other week I heard about a book by Lao Tzu 
> other than the Tao Te Ching. It is, supposedly, a collection of about
> 80 lessons/exercises and has never been translated into English before.
> Does anyone know the name of this book and the publisher? 
> -- 

The book is called _Further Teachings of Lao-Tzu_. This volume is said
to mark the first appearance in English of this 2,000 year old sourcebook
of Taoist thought. The translation is by Thomas Cleary, published by
Shambala, 1991, 220 pages, softcover, $20.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: MORIARTY@VM1.NoDak.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Lankavatara
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:20:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47419
Distribution: world
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

"Thus have I heard. ....
     The Blessed One, knowing of the mental agitations going on in
the minds of those assembled (like the surface of the ocean stirred
into waves by the passing winds), and his great heart moved by
compassion, smiled and said:  In the days of old the Tathagatas
of the past who were like Arhats and fully-enlightened Ones came
to the Catle of Lanka on Mount Malaya and discoursed on the Truth
of Noble Wisdom that is beyond the reasoning knowledge of the
philosophers as well as being beyond the understanding of ordinary
disciples and masters; and which is realisable only within the inmost
consciousness; for your sakes, I too, would discourse on the same

Truth.  All that is seen in the world is devoid of effort and action
because all things in the world are like a dream, or like an image
miraculously projected.  This is not comprehended by the philosophers
and the ignorant, but those who thus see thing see them truthfully.
Those who see things otherwise walk in discrimination and, as they
depend upon discrimination, they cling to dualism.  The world as
seen by discrimination is like seeing one's own image reflected
in a mirror, or one's shadow, or the moon reflected in water, or an
echo heard in the valley.  People grasping their own shadows of
discrimination become attached to this thing and that thing
and failing to abandon dualism they go on forever discriminating
and thus never achieve tranquility.  By tranquility is meant Oneness
and Oneness gives birth to the noblest Samadhi which is gained by
entering into the realm of Noble Wisdom that is realisable only
within one's inmost consciousness.
     Then all the Bodhisattava-Mahasattvas rose from their seats
and respectfully paid him homage..."
           Goddard, Dwight, ed.  _A Buddhist Bible_. (Beacon Press), 277-8.
     In gassho,     Mike     email:  Moriarty@vm1.nodak.edu
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: What is pleasure, fun, joy ?
Date: 18 Dec 92 08:27:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47569
Distribution: world
Organization: Abo Akademi University

Earlier I mentioned that pain and  suffering  are to a good extent due
to  mental conditioning. This can be extended to pleasure, joy and fun
as well. Happiness might be a different thing. I hope some people will
disagree with me.

What is  pleasure ? When we ask ourselves this  question, we find that
there is no simple answer to  it,  and the concept is somewhat hollow.
We  have  conditioned  our  minds  to  think  that certain  things are
pleasant, even  though they  might be  painful  (scratching,  drinking
bitter drinks, etc.) Travelling is often considered a pleasure by many
people. We will consider this separately at some other time.

Why  is it pleasant to  listen  to some kinds of music, which  differs
from person to person ?  Why is it that  some kinds of music are sheer
noise for some people, but music to others ? We have cheated our minds
and forced it to  think that certain kinds  of sounds are musical, and
others are not. Why is it pleasant to look at mountainous scenery with
a river or a lake, trees and birds ? Why is it not so pleasant to look
at slums ?   Why  are some tastes good  and others bad ? Why  are some
chemicals perfumes while some others smell bad ? I think it is all due
to conditioning of the mind. It is a different issue in psychology how
this  conditioning takes place - why certain  things are pleasant  and
others not, but the classification : pleasant/unpleasant has no basis.

It should be easier to attain a balanced state of mind (sthitapragnya)
once one realises  the hollowness  of these  concepts of  pleasure and
pain.

What is fun  ?  Why  is  it fun  to sit  in a  roller-coaster for some
people ?  Why is it  fun to play ?  What exactly is  that which is the
source of that fun ?

What  is joy ?  What is ecstasy ? It is  a feeling which arises in the
mind  under  some  circumstances.  That  arising,  however,  is  again
baseless. Some circumstances result  in  joy,  others  don't. How does
mind decide what is joyful ?

I will be glad to have some answers from you.

With regards,

Abhay