HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: Re^4: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:50:25 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman) writes:

> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
> 
> >                                          Some study, some insight, and a 
> >good teacher could help you to realize that there are social and 
> >psychological~r meanings beyond the literal to these stories, and there 
> >is room for advanced understanding of these stories.  There are benefits 
> >to anthropomorphasizing God, even thought we don't see "Him" as a
> >white bearded old man sitting on a throne.
> 
> Ahem.  I hope you'll forgive me if I ask whether or not you read my
> original post.  The "...social and psychological meanings...." of 
> Judaism are *precisely* the things that cause me to label myself a Jew.
> 
> >                                                            ...we are far
> >from a tribal cult that actually expects our prayers to influence a
> >deity.
> 
> I was not saying that I felt the purpose of Judaism to be influencing
> a deity, I was saying that it is the avowed purpose of the Conservative
> and Reform liturgy to do so, and that my attending Conservative and
> Reform services, as "an atheistic Jewish SubGenius minister" might
> be seen as conflicting with that avowed purpose.

It most certainly is NOT the avowed purpose of O and C liturgy to 
influence a diety.  That is only the very literal meaning of the language 
and that position leaves the sub-structure and essense of the prayers 
unexamined.  The entire prayer service is about a progression from one 
state of mind to another, and state of holiness to another.  Nothing is 
expected from these prayers except that we have an opportunity to bring 
ourselves to a higher level of holiness for a short time.  The prayers, 
their words, structure and order, help us to train our minds and souls to 
reach that level with time, study and practice.  Perhaps you might read 
the siddur I wrote to get a better understanding of this.
>  
> In fact, I *thought* I was saying the opposite.  I'm a Jew even if God
> does not exist.  I'm a Jew because of 4,000 years of history and 27
> years of personal Jewishness.  I'm even a Jew if (hypothetically--I
> don't expect this to happen) three Chasidic Orthodox rabbis reading this
> group (I believe that some of the people involved with the TORAH-L
> mailing list do) decided to convene a rabbinical court and excommunicate
> me. Fortuantely, Judaism is not at all monolitic about accepting such
> decisions....
>  
> There.  How's that--have I now had your requisite "Some study, some
> insight, and a good teacher...."?

I certainly never said that you were not a Jew-- your comment and the 
comment in the previous post seem to indicate some sensitivity in that 
area though.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: paco@cs.rice.edu (Paul Havlak)
Subject: Re: Mensa - FAQ: What other high-IO societies are there? [Bi-Weekly]
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa
Reply-To: Paul Havlak <paco@cs.rice.edu>
Organization: Center for Research on Parallel Computation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:21:57 GMT

Does anyone have a table relating test scores to percentile rankings
above or below that required for Mensa?  For example, what are the
rankings corresponding to GRE scores of 1400, 1500, 1600?

--paco
--
Paul Havlak			Dept. of Computer Science
Graduate Student		Rice University, Houston TX 77251-1892
PFC/ParaScope projects		(713) 527-8101 x2738 	paco@cs.rice.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Howard Stern
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 19:11:40 GMT

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

>In article <92358.142002FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:
>>And equal access is the key.  Since the electromagnetic spectrum can only
>>(given the current technology) be cut into so many piece, the Federal
>>government has asserted its _responsibility_ to regulate the "air waves" as

>It has assumed this "responsibility".  This is quite different from being
>given this responsibility by the public.  I personally did not delegate
>any of my freedom of choice to another person, let alone a government
>agency.

Whether you, I, or anyone else "personally" granted such, the laws as 
passed by the process we endorse through our citizenship under the
Constitution *have*.  That aside, I agree with you: there are severe
limits to the government's rights and responsibilities with respect to
the airwaves.  It is not a question of whether the government has any
such rights... It does.  It is a question of whether the government is
acting within those rights... I don't believe it is.

IMHO, the government's responsibility for technical management of the airwaves
is clear in its benefits.  Less clear, but apparent from judicial precedent,
is the government's right to regulate content in any public forum -- but only
under very specific circumstances:  i.e., the "clear and present danger" test.
I don't think that Howard Stern's on-air conduct presents a clear and present 
danger to anyone, therefore he should not be subject to sanctions or 
censorship.

Also less clear, but apparent from judicial precedent, is the government's
right to regulate access to certain public forums.  Such licensing must 
be non-discriminitory, and even public safety issues have been found to be
insufficient grounds for denial of license (e.g., numerous Klan rallies
are granted permits...).  Essentially, when the FCC fines a broadcaster for 
obscene content, it is imposing a fine for violation of terms and conditions 
of the broadcasting license.  Such terms and conditions would seem to 
constitute prior restraint on speech.  Courts, however, have held that 
this restraint is permissible in certain limited circumstances.  In other 
cases where obscenity has been considered grounds for prior restraint, the 
"community standards" test has been applied.  Given Stern's huge listernship, 
it is clear to me that his broadcasts meet the standards of a substantial 
community.  Therefore, neither he nor Infinity Broadcasting should be 
considered to be in violation of the terms of their license.

Don't know whether the nine black robes down in Washington would agree.
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:35:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.133342.1273@altair.selu.edu> bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu writes:
>
>
>  According to my memory, the formula for computing IQ was something
>like   mental age * 10 / physical age.  How is IQ really computed
>or determined?  Can it be done accurately for someone my age (23)?

It can for groups whose mean IQ is 10, such as the folks for whom
the warning is put on those little packs of Silica Gel in packing
material that say, "Do Not Eat This."

You may receive dozens of responses that say that intelligence cannot
be accurately measured, but the response to what I think you want to
ask is, "Yes."

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:48:06 GMT

> SAT's will do, however you must pay an "evaluation fee" to have the
> original document with the scores evaluated.  The current fee according
> to the latest brochure, $20.

Really?  This must be new.  I joined just over 2 years ago and didn't
have to send any special fee along with a xerox of my GRE scores.  Or
are GRE scores not subject to the fee?  When I got the how-to-join
info by phone, nothing was said of evaluation fees for any test scores.
__________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       matt@severian.chi.il.us       Java Man
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: when being a "genius" isn't enough
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:35:00 GMT


From "Getting What You Came For - The Smart Student's Guide to
Earning a Master's or a Ph.D.", by Robert L. Peters, (c) 1992,
page 64:

  "In psychology doctoral programs, the most selective schools require
   a GPA of at least 3.5 and a total GRE score (verbal plus
   quantitative) of at least 1300, second-rank schools require a
   GPA of at least 3.3 and a GRE of 1200, and lesser-known schools
   require GPAs greater than 3.0 and GRE scores of 1100."

Mensa's GRE cutoff is 1250.
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Howard Stern
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:34:04 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <1992Dec20.194915.17148@ncsu.edu> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>Don't know why I'm doing this.. Maybe in hopes of a change of scenery?
>Anyway, the Howard Stern (sp?) issue appeared to merit a lot of time on
>'Nightline' and even a mention on David Brinkley. If anyone has sides to
>take or analyses to present, lets hear from you? We really need a new thread.

Um, this probably seems hopelessly out of touch, but just what, pray tell,
is the Howard Stern issue?  I've seen Howard Stern's TV show, several months
ago, and I know he's a "shock radio" jock, but what _issue_?

Ken Gacioch
nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Re: Howard Stern
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:58:08 GMT

In article <1hqmfnINNg8s@gap.caltech.edu> vance@cco.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:
>In article <01GSW3HOEK82ADDCB5@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>>
>>In general, the traditional broadcast spectrum is full.  It may be
>>"fuller" in your part of the country than you think.
[....]
>
>In Los Angeles there is a Channel 4 (NBC) and Channel 5 (Ind.).  The
>break between low VHF and high VHF is between 6 and 7.  So they are
>in adjacent 6MHz bands and I don't remember any interference problems.
>(I don't live there now).  I think this was a problem with earlier
[....]

This is all entirely irrelevant.

Firstly,  The bandwidth, for whatever reason, is a limited
resource to some extent, even if the reason is that two stations
can interfere with one another, even if that interference is 
deliberate, and the FCC is supposed to make sure that doesn't happen.

Secondly, even if it is a limited resource, some of us have taken 
issue with 1) the complete irrelevance of limitations of resources 
to censorship, and 2) the rights of the FCC to censor anybody.

If a body of people exists that seems to want some numbskull on
the air sufficient to support his being there, then it is hard
to imagine the FCC having the right to say they should not
have him there.  Unless they can prove that his presence is
somehow injuring someone or denying their rights, they should
put a cork in it.  Unless of course they are acting out the
wishes of some special-interest group with entirely too much
free time on their hands.

Certainly a more dangerous source of "ideas" would be someone
who could make them sound more intelligent and plausible than
Howard Stern does.  But perhaps I overestimate the listening
public.

In any case, I personally don't care to have the government
screening what I can hear.  And in the case of Stern, it
becomes an open spigot to hear a reflection of the kind of
dim-witted half-baked knee-jerk thoughts that pass for
"ideas" of the general public.  Summarize it under "Forewarned
is forearmed."

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Decision
Supersedes: <92359.082235FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Thursday, 24 Dec 1992 08:36:56 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>

In article <1992Dec23.235909.8439@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com
(gilbert.m.stewart) says:
>
>As for those political cartoons, let's just say that I found them,
>um, less than side-splitting.

Gee, Gilbert, if you had only submitted a list of subjects you personally found
side-splitting, I'm sure they would have done a better job.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu or ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:51:49 GMT

In article <01GSXMV9SKC6ADDCVB@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>>From: bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu
>>Message-ID: <1992Dec30.133342.1273@altair.selu.edu>
>>
>>  According to my memory, the formula for computing IQ was something
>>like   mental age * 10 / physical age.  How is IQ really computed
>>or determined?  Can it be done accurately for someone my age (23)?
>>
>>Brian Acosta
>
>Mental age * 100 / chronological age is the old forumula.
>The modern version, especially for adults, is the deviation
>IQ, computed via the normal distribution (bell curve) from
>rank in the population.

Old or new, useless just the same.
>
>There are many IQ tests designed for adults.  However, for most people,
>a reasonable estimate can be made from SAT or GRE scores.


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wicks@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Subject: RE:mensa abroad Germany
Date: 1 JAN 93 10:47:26 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

In article <dell@cs.cnu.edu(Dellera writes:
<I have bee living abroad for a while, I am interested in re-joining Mensa.
<Does anybody know if the group is active in Germany etc.
Hans Lippman is no longer the chairman of Mensa Germany. But he would be a good contact. The present chair is Margo, whose address I now forget. The International Director Development lives in Germany. Very helpful man. Mr. Udu Schultz,
Hofholzallee 102, d-2300 Kiel 1., Germany.
Another contact. Hasso Streger, REPLY
Wiemelhauser Straffe 211,D-4630, Bochum 1. germany. Tel 02 34 30 93 68
fax 02 34 30 85 08. Udo's Telephone number is:Home: (4(9)431 521 269
BUs: (49) 431 301 8406.
Could send a few more addresses after I get back to office on the $t$4th. Jan.
Say hello to these people from Wicks of Canada if do contact them.
Wicks Mensa Canada

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: bjd@ece.cmu.edu (Bob Davidson)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:24:31 GMT

Ken B Kirksey (kkirksey@world.std.com) wrote:
: >I realize now that like the illusion of love, the illusion of
: >spirituality is a key part of our humanity, and I revel in it,
: >but continue to keep touch with reality.


As Pauli said of Dirac:

"There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy)
Subject: Re: Re: Triple Nine Society
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:32:13 GMT

In article <01GSNG8EOB9UADCRH9@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com
(Kjeld Hvatum) writes: 

>OK, then, try this:
>
>does anyone have a need for high IQ societies other than High Five?  Is
>there something I am missing?  

Parties. You're missing the parties. Mensa has the best ones. :^)


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:50:00 GMT


>From: "gilbert.m.stewart" <gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com>
>Message-ID: <1992Dec31.003524.8767@cbnewse.cb.att.com>
>
>In article <1992Dec30.133342.1273@altair.selu.edu> bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu
> writes:
>>
>>  According to my memory, the formula for computing IQ was something
>>like   mental age * 10 / physical age.  How is IQ really computed
>>or determined?  Can it be done accurately for someone my age (23)?
>
>...
>You may receive dozens of responses that say that intelligence cannot
>be accurately measured, but the response to what I think you want to
>ask is, "Yes."

Good answer.  Yes, IQ, as defined by any one of a number of different IQ
tests, can be determined to within a few points (age isn't a problem),
just as your SAT verbal level can be determined to within about 30
points.

Relating IQ to intelligence is an entirely different discussion,
as is relating SAT verbal scores to academic ability.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Prayer (was Re: Re^6: Atheism and Intelligence)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:29:42 GMT

In article <5skPwB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>
>> In article <cJmkwB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (To
>> >I try to look beyond the literal meaning of the prayer.  "Blessed are
>> >You, raiser of the dead," is not taken any more literally than prayers 
>> >asking for rain.  The phrases we add during the winter to bring rain 
>> >perform an important function in attuning ourselves to the cycle of 
>> >nature, to contemplating the frailty of life and our need for life 
>> >sustaining processes, and bring our thoughts to Israel where the rain is 
>> >supposed to fall.  We don't really expect that it will rain because we 
>> >added the phrases, but it is the EFFECT of saying the phrases that shapes 
>> >our mind and spirit while we pray.

This sounds pretty desperate, but I have to admit that it is possible.

>Not even close, and your suggestion that the body of literature on 

How and why?

>tefillah, which dates back to the formation of the liturgy and contains 
>commentary by some of those who composed the prayer service and those who 

I'm not familiar with the level of credibility of "those".  Were they
individuals who had done something previously that make us tend to believe
them?

>altered it from time to time is a half-hearted, after-the-fact 
>explanation is ridiculous and ignorant of the complexity and thoroughness 
>of said literature.

Could you be more specific?  How, relatively, complex and thorough is
this literature compare to other literature?
>
>You're way off the mark, bud.

In all honesty, you'll have to be more specific than that to sway
me, personally.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re^4: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:17:34 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:

>                                          Some study, some insight, and a 
>good teacher could help you to realize that there are social and 
>psychological~r meanings beyond the literal to these stories, and there 
>is room for advanced understanding of these stories.  There are benefits 
>to anthropomorphasizing God, even thought we don't see "Him" as a
>white bearded old man sitting on a throne.

Ahem.  I hope you'll forgive me if I ask whether or not you read my
original post.  The "...social and psychological meanings...." of 
Judaism are *precisely* the things that cause me to label myself a Jew.

>                                                            ...we are far
>from a tribal cult that actually expects our prayers to influence a
>deity.

I was not saying that I felt the purpose of Judaism to be influencing
a deity, I was saying that it is the avowed purpose of the Conservative
and Reform liturgy to do so, and that my attending Conservative and
Reform services, as "an atheistic Jewish SubGenius minister" might
be seen as conflicting with that avowed purpose.
 
In fact, I *thought* I was saying the opposite.  I'm a Jew even if God
does not exist.  I'm a Jew because of 4,000 years of history and 27
years of personal Jewishness.  I'm even a Jew if (hypothetically--I
don't expect this to happen) three Chasidic Orthodox rabbis reading this
group (I believe that some of the people involved with the TORAH-L
mailing list do) decided to convene a rabbinical court and excommunicate
me. Fortuantely, Judaism is not at all monolitic about accepting such
decisions....
 
There.  How's that--have I now had your requisite "Some study, some
insight, and a good teacher...."?
 
Sheesh.

Mitch Silverman                    | As Voltaire never said, "I
Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu           | your right to say it."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: funka@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Andreas Funk)
Subject: Re: mensa abroad Germany
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 11:53:29 GMT

In article <1JAN93.10472637@meena.cc.uregina.ca> wicks@meena.cc.uregina.ca writes:
>In article <dell@cs.cnu.edu(Dellera writes:
><I have bee living abroad for a while, I am interested in re-joining Mensa.
><Does anybody know if the group is active in Germany etc.
>The present chair is Margo, whose address I now forget. 
>
The adress of Margot Schmied is
Saarlandstrasse 22
W-8940 Memmingen
Phone +49 (0) 8331 81900

Hope this helps

Funky
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Silica gel was: IQ Test?
From: Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan)
Date: 1 Jan 93 19:54:00 +1200
Organization: Equinox Networks
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

gilbert.m.stewart (gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com) wrote:

>It can for groups whose mean IQ is 10, such as the folks for whom
>the warning is put on those little packs of Silica Gel in packing
>material that say, "Do Not Eat This."

Recently I have seen some ads on TV here extolling the virtues of the latest
health-food wonder - silica gel. 8-/

--
Geoff, Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) +64 (3) 3854406 [4 Lines]
                               Voice: +64 (3) 3852101
        "Hi. You have just entered the fourth dimension. Small isn't it?"
From: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Howard Stern
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:46:03 GMT
Reply-To: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

I wrote that Howard Stern's comments had been posted here.  However, I
checked old articles, and it isn't in rec.org.mensa.  But I'm sure I saw
them somewhere -- does anybody know what group they were posted in?


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com