HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srs@oasis.icl.co.uk (Steve Strong)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Tent suggestions
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:38:31 GMT
Organization: ICL, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 4SN, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Hi,

I am looking to buy a tent sometime next week. I have got a short list
of two - a Wild Country Trisar, or a Wild Country Quasar.
The Quasar is about 60 UK pounds ( ~$120 ) more than the Trisar. Is
it worth paying the extra money?

Replies either by email or to this group. I will summarise if enough
intrest is shown.

Cheers,

Steve
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Strong - email srs@oasis.icl.co.uk      | Wasn't me. I didn't say that.
               voice 44 344 424842 extn 2279  | Definitely got the wrong guy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 6/20/91] Leopold's post Distilled Wisdom (15/28)	XYZ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:20:10 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:34:56 GMT

>Something not mentioned in the article about cattle grazing in the bay
>area relates to a recent decision regarding grazing on Mt. Diablo.  The
>grazing cattle helped reduce the amount of underbrush and as a result
>lessened the spread of wildfires.  If grazing cattle do have a impact
>on wildfires I'd rather endure a few bovines with bells on than have an
>entire area wiped out via wildfire.
>
Your comment is understandable but misses a critical point.  Several
native plant species in the SF Bay Area will not propagate unless
their seeds are scorched by fire.  Hence, fire supression serves to
endanger these plants rather than protect them.

BTW, the Park management's position has been that the fire
prevention effect of grazing is not significant.  I don't have any
way to judge the validity of this position but mention it because
you may have been getting just one side of that issue.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:37:47 GMT

In article <56053@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo) writes:
>The point here is to be prepared for anything. Every month is on record
>for having snowfall. Muir called October "the month of continuous
>sunshine", and September and October can be the very best months
>for weather and backpacking. We usually have Indian Summer at this
>time, and San Francisco usually actually warms up. But be ready.
>This has been a strange schitzoid twisted summer for weather,
>so expect the unexpected.

DITTO.  Augest 25 1986 at Vogelsang Yosemite (11,000'): Two inches of snow,
ice in water bottle, and wake up temperature of 15 degrees.
I haven't been snowed on July yet in the Sierras, but it is merely a matter
of time.  I have had to cross snow drifts in July, e.g. Mt. Whitney trail.
From: hameed@hal.COM (Hameed Mohammed)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Query: Any Hot Springs in the bay area?
Date: 15 Sep 92 06:41:40 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sabre.hal.com


Hi,

I would appreciate it if someone could tell if there are any hot springs

around the bay area.

Thanks in advance

Hameed.


.sig :refuses to execute! wonders if its a wrong newsgroup!!
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:16:46 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <14534@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>In article <10335@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>>attract a *lot* of hunters.  Furthermore it will attract a lot of
>>real idiots to hunt the area.  I guarantee there will be fewer cows
>>after those guys get through.  
> 
>Unfortunately there might also be fewer hunters.

Isn't that one of the attractions of the concept?

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
South Central LA - solidly Democratic - a few million.
Florida          - close race         - $7 billion.
Too many Quayludes.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Uses of high explosives in the backcountry
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:39:43 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep13.190426.14521@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
smithrs@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SMITH  RANDALL SCOTT) writes:
>Makes you wonder why no one mentioned this subject before... :-)

Assuming you said that post in the finest possible John Cleese voice.

Oh, but we have, somewhere out there are system back up tapes with
Subject: M-1 Tanks in the wilderness..... ;^)

>the mad Chemist

Not the LN2-cockroach guy?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Floating through a forest fire
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:29:05 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Sep11.182827.7105@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
|[Warning, minor environmentalist rant ahead.]
|
|In article <1992Sep11.170452.9976@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep11.154601.21455@ncar.ucar.edu>
|> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
|> >
|> >(No cows along the Salmon, at least none that we saw.  Not counting
|> >cow elk, of course.) 
|> 
|> Cows?  Hell (s Canyon) terrestial animal flesh?
|> Well, what about a nice, fresh, finely poached salmon?
|> Thin fillets, flakey, orange meat which melts in your mouth...
|
|Salmon from the Salmon River?  You must be joking! :-(
|Do you know how many dams are between the Salmon River and the Pacific?
|The Salmon flows into the Snake, which flows into the Columbia, the 
|most dammed river on the continent, I believe (pun fully intended).
 
Or that's the damndest river I've ever seen.

|Special fishing regulations for the Salmon River (you bet we got
|fishing licenses -- one of our party (my father-in-law) is a retired
|Colorado Game and Fish officer) ask fishermen to release any salmon
|or steelhead trout (which has recently been reclassified as a salmon)
|caught.

A steelhead trout is not a salmon. I assume the classification is only
done to allow the same regulations to be used for both species.
According to Jim Freeman in "California Steelhead - The Complete Guide",
"The remarkable steelhead is a rainbow trout that, for reasons understood
only by the steelhead, runs to sea."

| We did catch and eat quite a few bull trout 

I suppose that is *close* to a cow.

|(By the way, according to Idaho fishing regulations, if you are floating
|down the river in a rubber raft and run a rapid such that your boat
|takes on a lot of water:  if you discover any fish in your boat that
|have been splashed in with the water, you have to throw them back.)

I heard a story from a former pilot that did "air plants" of trout in
the alpine lakes in the Sierras and he was relating an incident of a
harrowing dive that they took into a canyon, made the drop and then
quickly climbed up out of the canyon before crashing into the mountain.
As they made their turn they saw that out in the middle of the lake was
a rubber raft with a couple of fishermen in it frantically grabbing the
fish that had just dropped into the boat with them. 

-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira     | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions.  |
| johnf@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA |  So Why am I still working here?"    |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: South Sister, 2nd try...
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:44:56 GMT

rbear@inferno.uoregon.edu (Richard Bear) writes:


>The huge crows walk unconcernedly about
>on the quiet ice of the summit glacier.
>No one else is here. Strong winds, weak sun.

Huge "crowds" walk unconcernedly up South Sister
as well. You were lucky no one was up there. When I
use to run cross country for Cock (no that's spelled
COCC...Central Oregon Community College) we'd
run up that mountain from Sparks Lake once a week(...and
I complain about horse pulverizing the trails!).

>It is, after all, a very long way home.

Not too bad if you live in Central Oregon.
Nice poem Richard, makes me want to go back there and climb
the Sisters (and Little Brother) again.
From: bg213@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark A. Stoffan)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: smart First Need filter usage
Date: 7 Sep 1992 17:29:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bg213@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark A. Stoffan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, curtis@cs.arizona.edu (Curtis E. Dyreson) says:

>For those of you considering the First Need water filter and eyeing the
>$100+ price tags on the other models, here are the techniques which makes
>your First Need a joy to use.
>
>   1) Buy a prefilter!  Get yourself down to your local Herman's
>      and pick up 2 Camphor (formerly Timberline) filter cannisters


>   2) Buy a plastic tube that leads from the end of your filter to your
>      water bottle and figure out how to affix it (cost $1).  How
>      to do it is left as an exercise to the reader (varies according
>      to your water bottle).  Voila, no more balancing the filter over
>      the water bottle.

Actually, if you don't mind spending a couple of bucks you can buy this
setup directly from First Need. It even includes a cap for Nalgene
bottles that has a ready-made connection, so the reader doesn't even
have to use any ingenuity <g>. Some folks may find this simpler than
hunting for the individual parts.

-- 
Mark Stoffan			mark@btsgatep.caps.maine.edu

Bangor Theological Seminary	bg213@cleveland.freenet.edu
159 State Street		
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Subject: Re: Hiking in Yosemite in early October
Reply-To: flb@lune.berkeley.edu (Frederick Lee Burghardt)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:13:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.153747.19599@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM
(Richard Ottolini) writes:
|> In article <56053@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>
donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo) writes:
|> >The point here is to be prepared for anything. Every month is on record
|> >for having snowfall. Muir called October "the month of continuous
|> >sunshine", and September and October can be the very best months
|> >for weather and backpacking. We usually have Indian Summer at this
|> >time, and San Francisco usually actually warms up. But be ready.
|> >This has been a strange schitzoid twisted summer for weather,
|> >so expect the unexpected.
|> 
|> DITTO.  Augest 25 1986 at Vogelsang Yosemite (11,000'): Two inches of snow,
|> ice in water bottle, and wake up temperature of 15 degrees.
|> I haven't been snowed on July yet in the Sierras, but it is merely a matter
|> of time.  I have had to cross snow drifts in July, e.g. Mt. Whitney trail.

It happened this year.  The southern storms in early July caused a couple of
days of snow/hail/rain in the Sierra.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: colinj@engin.umich.edu (Colin Johnson)
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 10:32:38 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

	One of the recent issues of _Backpacker_ magazine just did a big
spread on grazing on public lands. They had some interesting things to say
about just how much public money goes to pay for this grazing.   


-- 
Colin Johnson           |Colin.Johnson@um.cc.umich.edu
Ann Arbor Michigan      |colinj@caen.engin.umich.edu


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mtume@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Annette Bernhardt)
Subject: qx: boiling water at high altitudes
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:55:47 GMT

We're heading off to the Andes in a month and a half -- question:
is boiling water to kill little nasties any less effective at
high altitudes, where boiling temp is lower?

Just making sure,
Annette
(mtume@sam.spc.uchicago.edu)
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:08:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bose.phys.ksu.edu


>One might now ask, how the plant species managed before the
>introduction of European stock.  Most likely, native herbivories
>formerly filled this role but are now absent or much reduced in
>population.  They reduced population may well be due to competition
>from domestic stock.

>Next, if the preceding paragraph hasn't infuriated you, assume youy
>agree with using stock for the purpose described.  It doesn't take a
>rocket scientist to realize that there is an optimal domestic stock
>population that will work.  A population density greater than
>optimal will damage the plant community.  Do you think the area you
>visited had the "optimal" stock population?  Less than optimall?
>More than optimal?


No, I'm not infuriated.  Just recognize the fact that a wild herbivore is
very different from a domestic herbivore.  People like domestic animals
because they just stand in one place all day and eat and shit and get fat. 
They also herd up very nicely so you can get all your fat meat in one place
at one time.  Generally, wild animals do just the opposite.  Deer and Elk
only herd in the winter (snow = plant protection) and move around alot! 
Bison herd, but they range much farther than cattle.  Also, studies have
shown that a running Bison tears up the soil (a good thing) while a walking
cow compacts the soil (a bad thing).  I don't think there's any legitimate
use for domestic livestock in wilderness areas.

-Diverson
--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Moving to California
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:57:12 GMT

In article <6680@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com>,
roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313) writes:
>
Reasons cited not to move to CA:
  FYI, these are not the usual tongue-in-check "don't New jerseyfy
California" sentiments.  They are reasonable interpretations of the
current state of affairs. REALLY!

>More Reasons not to:
>        1.  $300 surcharge for bringing car into state - this is on top
>                of regular registration which varies from $50 to $200/yr
>        2.  Outrageous state income tax - and nothing is deductable
>        3.  It never rains in CA - and that's not just the title of a song,
>                now entering a 6th year of drought
>        4.  This truly is the land of fruits and nuts - and I'm not talking
>                about stuff growing on trees - but if you take them away,
>                all you are left with is the flakes
>        5.  Traffic problems ALL the time, everywhere - getting to the
>                "backcountry" is worse than commuting to work
>        6.  90% of the state's population CANNOT afford a median priced house -
>                median price about $230,000 (higher in some areas such as LA, SF)
>        7.  Decaying public education system - CA ranks 42nd in the US in
>                $'s spent per student
>        8.  Decaying higher education system - tuition as gone up another 30%
>                for CA residents attending Univ. of CA and CA State schools.
>                All the while budgets have been cut over 25% in last 2 years
>        9.  Businesses beating a hasty retreat to cheaper areas - just announced
>                this morning that Apple will close Fremont plant and transfer the
>                manufacturing to Colorado and the Orient.  Loss of 700 jobs.
>        10.  Auto-insurance is unbelievable - if you can get it.
>        11.  The state (or the western half anyway) may not be here in several
>                years - earthquakes.
>        12.  If you change your mind after you get here, getting out is becoming
>                a problem.  So many people are leaving that moving companies and
>                truck rentals have none to move people out with.
>        13.  Cities like SF and LA have lost any charm or tourist value they once
>                had to urban blight.
>
>---
>Suzanne Roat                            Phone:  (510) 242-5313 Voice
>Chevron Research and Technology Company         (510) 242-4647 FAX
>100 Chevron Way                         Email:  roat@rrc.chevron.com
>Richmond, CA  94802-0627
>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: NO ALCOHOL IN N.P. (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:07:44 GMT

gadient@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (JL Gadient) writes:
: 
: I am very surprised at the people that bitch about dogs. I have camped 
: all my life and NEVER had a bad experience with a dog. I think some of
: you out there just hate dogs.

Interesting how the section of my post that you deleted had to do with a dog
chasing my friend in his tent and thrashing around in it.  Just ignore the
facts, eh?

We saw two dogs during the week.  One was extremely well behaved, and a joy
to watch.  The other chased my friend.  50% isn't encouraging, as far as
behavior goes...

: The only hassles I have ever had camping came from people. People
: who had had too much to drink.

Now it's my turn.  I've never had problems camping with people who drink/drink
too much, while camping.

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Danny@sct.gu.edu.au (Danny James)
Subject: Water in Nepal/What do I do?
Originator: Danny@tomahawk.me.gu.edu.au
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 03:57:51 GMT

I have been following the conversations on water filters keenly
and have contacted a few of the articles authors and on their advice
am posting this

It is likely that I will be going to Nepal later this year
I have read all I can on water precautions, however i am unsure of
what looks good and what is pratical.

My planned method of attack is as follows

get water (it is visually clean so i won't filter at this stage)
boil water
add iodine
filter water

I am mainly considering filtering the water as a means on getting 
rid of the iodine taste as I am told by friends that it becomes
unpleasant esp. for extended periods of time

Possible questions

1) Has anyone been to nepal and what did they do and were they sick?
2) Do water filters remove the iodine (activated charcoal gets rid of most
   things, we use it in the lab a lot)
3) anything else you can think of that I should know

PS because of my limited experience I don't have much knowledge of these things
  so be verbose if you can

many thanks 

Danny


-- 
Danny James                        |
Division of Science and Technology | Email:
Griffith University, Nathan 4111   | Danny@tomahawk.me.gu.edu.au
Brisbane Australia                 |
From: jeanette@hpmcaa (Jeanette Skelton)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpmcaa.1992Sep08.164849.3182
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Bernie Rauscher (bjr@oddjob.uchicago.edu) wrote:
> 
> Have others run into this little problem where we humans are asked to
> leave no trace, yet the agency that makes this request leases the land
> for pasture ... with I suspect disasterous consequences that it would take
> a small village of humans to duplicate?
> 
In Portland, OR, the city takes its drinking water from the Bull Run 
Watershed on Mt. Hood. Hikers are not allowed in the watershed, but 
logging is. 

Jeanette
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:33:18 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <14564@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.173321.20965@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>|Your comment is understandable but misses a critical point.  Several
>|native plant species in the SF Bay Area will not propagate unless
>|their seeds are scorched by fire.  Hence, fire supression serves to
>|endanger these plants rather than protect them.
> 
>I suppose that is where you have to weigh having a few native plants 
>in an area in the bay area to having a wildfire spread into a neighborhood
>and destroy the homes of hundreds of people.

Every year TV News wrings hands over the fancy homes in the brush areas 
that were destroyed after millions of taxpayer dollars spent fighting the
fires.  Let em build where they can create a buffer on private land at
their own expense and get their own insurance just like the people on 
floodplains should be doing.  Otherwise they can live in town like us
lower classes and leave the countryside alone.
 

	 George Tucker        tucker@tcville.hac.com
South Central LA - solidly Democratic - a few million.
Florida          - close race         - $7 billion.
Too many Quayludes.
From: petolino@joe.Eng.Sun.COM (Joe Petolino)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cows at 12,000 Feet.
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:11:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: joe

>>I expressed my surprise to a backcountry ranger that cattle grazing
>>was allowed in a wilderness area.  She gave me the impression
>>that this was a somewhat unique situation.  I suspect the grazing rights
>>were grandfathered in when the Pecos Wilderness Area was established.
>>Anyone know for sure?

>I had a very similar experience in Great Basin National Park this
>summer.

Hop Valley in Zion NP was crawling with bovines the last time I was there.

-Joe
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Moving to California
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:02:38 GMT

In article <14591@auspex-gw.auspex.com>,
johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>Giants/Dodgers games don't count.  Dodger fans are from another country.
>
"country"?  Are you sure you don't mean "planet"? :-)

In case anyone asks what this has to do with backcountry, well, you
should have seen how many layers of polypro, and fleece I wore last
time I went to Candlestick!!
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:7041 rec.climbing:3478