From: johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by C
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:58:36 GMT

In article 21932@microsoft.com, chriswa@microsoft.com (Chris Waldron) writes:
>In article <1j89tkINNs91@shelley.u.washington.edu> tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>>chriswa@microsoft.com (Chris Waldron) writes:
>>>I'm sorry Sean, but the major focus of the FTC case is the OEM licensing of
>>>DOS which the FTC is claiming prevents OEM from offering alternative OSes such
>>>as DR DOS.  Apple's closed system prevents any kind of System 7 clone from
>>>being offered on their system.  Apple both markets the hardware and the system
>>>software.  In the DOS world OEM are clearly independent of the system software.
>>
>>Please explain what is to prevent someone from writing a System 7 clone.  Apple
>>documents the hardware of the machines, and the interfaces to System 7.  What
>>more do you need?
>>
>>There's not much point in writing a System 7 clone (System 7 is cheap...who
>>needs a clone?), but there are third party operating systems available for
>>the Macintosh: Minix and MacTen, for example.
>>

Actually, isn't there a real live system 6 clone for the NeXT? (they are
working on Sys 7, I bet)?

>>--Tim Smith
>
>Clearly the point being made here is in reference to the FTC investigation of
>Microsoft due to its relation to PC OEMs.

Yeah, strangely enough.

>  Clones of Macintosh system does not
>abound in the marketplace due to the closed nature of their system.

Also the fact that the roms and system are hard to clone- they
are big and nasty. It would be like a Windows clone
but worse, as System 7 has a lot of outdated compatability
stuff in it that must be supported. Windows doesn't have this
(yet, anyway)

>  System 7
>clones to my knowledge do not abound.  In fact Apple sued two companies that
>offered GUI interfaces for different hardware platforms. 

They lost, too.

> Yet the FTC has not
>looked into Apple's business practices.

You mean suing at the drop of a hat?

Is that illegal?

>  My point which I've made in previous
>postings is to contrast Apples practices with that of Microsoft's and ask if
>the FTC is so concern with Microsoft why haven't they look at Apple's?

I seem to have missed your previous postings. :( Bummer.

Apple does not have anything even remotely resembling a majority of the
market at this time. Never mind a monopoly. They sell one computer line,
and good old fashioned proprietary system software. Should Commodore be
sued for doing this same thing? NeXT? (well, I know, NeXTstep is being
ported.. but before that?)

They don't even sell applications software into the Mac market. They
have a spin-off company that does, but if it had an unfair
advantage, it would be doing better than it is

>  I 
>believe that Apple has done more to restrain the market than anything that
>Microsoft has done.

"the market"?

If you mean the whole PC market, I rather doubt it. Certainly I see no
evidence.

If you mean "the Macintosh Market", I find it rather odd that you say so.
Do you mean that it is odd that other OSes do not proliferate on the
Mac? They do exist, ya know.

Perhaps you refer to the fact that Apple distributes the System Software
with the system. This is rather unavoidable; a large hunk of that stuff
is physically part of the Machine, because it is in the roms. Do you
thing Apple should sell ROM-less machines?

Apple tries to sell Macs as a unit. They tend to be rather take-it-or-leave-it
deals because of this, even though Apple won't STOP you from mixing-and-matching
components. (it can void your waranty, but then so does everything else :( )

However, it is quite evident that nobody is forced to "take it"; lots and
lots of folks go with other things. Like Windows.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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