HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:53:21 GMT

In article <4458@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
> In article <RaNLuB3w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
> 
> Nabil wrote:
> Can you find out the percentage of Americans who don't like Arabs?
>  
> >  Why should he? This is s.c.j.
> 
> Nabeel was referring to Arabs as Semites, therefore, he was wondering,
> in that context of American anti-semitism, what the percentage was in
> view of hatred/bias against Arabs.
> 

I would think that those who are prejudiced against Jews are
highly likely to be prejudiced against Arabs for many of the
same reasons, Arabs aside of course.  There may be "anti-Israelists"
who appear to be sympathetic to Arabs, but if Jews were not an issue
you would find those peoples' sympathies disappearing quite quickly.

There is a tread going on in t.p.m. about Hitler's views on
Jews vs. Arabs.  They were a convenient pawn for his world
view.  Todays' anti-semites use Arabs-Palestinians in much
the same way.

> But we know, it isn't the same thing solely because the term was
> invented by a German and according to any dictionary is defined
> as "A person who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews"
> (American Heritage) [actually under 'anti-semite'].
> 

The Jews were the only Middle Eastern people living in any
substantial numbers in Europe.  Had there been more Arabs
there, perhaps you could have shared the honor with us. -:)
By the way, Jews were denounced as a Middle Eastern infestation
in the midst of Christian Europe long before Hitler.

> Now, I'm sure this is convenient as a way of not catagorizing Arabs
> as Semitic people or even in viewing the hostilities and prejudices
> against Arabs in this and other countries - especially Germany.  So,
> for the sake of semantics, should we say anti-Arab?
> 

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20753 soc.culture.turkish:11946 talk.politics.mideast:22422 talk.politics.soviet:9107 soc.culture.greek:10834 soc.culture.europe:9764 soc.culture.soviet:10180 soc.rights.human:4292 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9686
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.soviet,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the Nazi 
 army.
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:19:10 GMT
 <9211221338@zuma.UUCP>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Of course, there was no independent Armenia at this time -- a fact
Serdar conveniently ignores.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"There are only three kinds of lies -- damned lies, statistics, and
accusations from Serdar Argic."  :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:38:43 GMT

In article <dfs.722132529@vash> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# In <1992Nov18.005516.933@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake
# Livni) writes:
 
# >There is no danger in telling the truth (or there shouldn't be in an
# >ideal system) but putting things into a perspective, something so
# >often lost in a world of sound-bites and short attention spans, is
# >terribly important.  Meir Kahane was probably no worse than the Arabs
# >outside Israel whom he opposed or the Arab members of Knesset inside
# >Israel who kept their posts while Kahane was legislated out of
# >existence.
 
# So that makes it OK?

	What makes it ok is that it is the only propoisition given to
dealing with a roblem, that no matter how bad the cure is, it is
certainly better then the disease.

# Therefore, by Livni's logic, it is OK for Israel to
# conduct a campaign of terrorism because they would then be "no worse" than
# Hezbollah or the PLO or the PFLP.

	How can you even call it a capmaign of terrorism?  However, if it
was the only way to get rid of the Katushas, then it would be ok (or
not) depending on which was worse (the campaign or the Katushas).

# >Calling Kahane a racist for opposing an Arab takeover of
# >Israel from within is akin to calling Israel's retaliations against
# >Katyusha fire "terrorist acts".

# Kahane was not a racist because he opposed an Arab takeover of Israel
# from within.  He was a racist because he proposed mass expulsions of
# innocent Israeli citizens, and the curtailing of political rights based
# on ethnic identity.

	That does not make him a racist, especially since hi plan is the
only one.  Now, he does not propose mass expulsions for anyone, nor
the curtailing of political rights per say.  He only proposes it if
steps are not taken to make sure there is no threat to the state.

	And nothing is based on ethnicity (which an individual has no
control over), it is based on religion (which an individual does have
control over).  Thefore it is not racist, although it is
discriminatory.  I would argue that Israel is permitted, even
OBLIGATED, to discriminate in favor of Jews.  The law of return is one
such example.

# I would never say that Israel's retaliation against Hezbollah is
# terrorist in nature.  Hezbollah deserves total annihilation, because
# its stated goal is the destruction of Israel.

	Just beacuse EHzbollah deserves annhilation does not mean Israel's
retaliation is not terrorist.  It is not terrorist, but for other
reasons.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
From: mjabosm@cs.vu.nl (Mark Bosma)
Subject: Looking for calendar conversion programs
Organization: O.V. W.G. TAO, Amsterdam
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:31:34 GMT

Hello,

I am looking for programs or formulas (so I can write my
own program) for the conversion between the gregorian calendar
and the Jewish calendar. If someone has any
information on this subject please E-mail me.
I have the program hebcal.c but it doesn't seem
to be accurate in all possible dates.

Mark.


-- 
---  M.J.A Bosma        -  Department Math & Comp.              
---  mjabosm@cs.vu.nl   -  VU-University, Amsterdam, Holland. 
--
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:29:37 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <98018@netnews.upenn.edu> chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.165211.20122@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>>In article <emc.721745528@ro> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>>>>Immanuel Velikovsky resolved this problem in his book "Ages in Chaos".
>>>>He places the Exodus not in the New Kingdom but at the end of the
>>>>Middle Kingdom.  Following that was a 400 year period of Hyksos 
>>>>domination (which he equates to the Amalekites).  This flies in the
>>>>face of accepted chronology, but his case is so thoroughly argued and
>>>>the results of the revised chronology are so astounding that it is
>>>>really worth a look.  
>
>
>This has gotten me somewhat curious.  If it's not asking too much, could
>you post a brief summary of currently accepted chronology and
>Velikovsky's chronology?  I'm quite curious to see a side-by-side
>comparison.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Chaim R. Dworkin
>chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu

I will have to do a little digging.  I'll try to get it
you in a few days.  Equally important is his analysis of
the reasons why the accepted chronology became so badly
distorted, resulting in major misalignments.  This is
described in detail in one of the successor volumes to
Ages in Chaos, "Peoples of the Sea".  I would be glad
to send you a hard copy if you are interested.

Regards,
Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:13:50 GMT

In article <eharbin.722262693@convex.convex.com> eharbin@convex.com  
(Edward Harbin) writes:
> In <1efg8sINNcc9@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel  
Starr) writes:
> >(The application to the attempted genocide comes from our viewing  
ourselves
> >as a united community, and seeing that community utterly devastated.)   
Even
> >if every fetus aborted were a murder (even that's a poor usage, because
> >murder implies intent to kill, which the aborting woman doesn't have  
because
> >she doesn't think the fetus is alive...), I find it very difficult to  
imagine
> 
> They think the fetus is alive, I'm sure, but not human. The nazis took  
the
> same position with respect to the Jews. That's the awful thing, the  
exceptional
> thing - not just the body count, not even the attempt to exterminate  
entirely,
> but the denial of humanity. And the use of the word holocaust - however
> effective or ineffective as a polemical device - reflects the fear and 
> trembling many of feel at a society that is beginning to define its  
members
> away.


---------------

I would like to see this tread out of s.c.j.
There is no point on arguing with a bunch of catholics about this.
I guess that bringing this tread here will only result on getting  
ourselves insulted.

Just an opinion.
AAP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Oral sex
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:31:47 GMT

nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:

> But it's a moot point to ask if it's forbidden on fast days since sex in
> general is forbidden on fast days.

Not true.  To my knowledge, the only fast days on which marital relations
are prohibited are Yom Kippur and Tish`a be'Av.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: urena@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Richard Urena)
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Spain
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:08:24 GMT

>In article <34eiuB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>>  But there is something much more interesting than this. A Jewish friend
>>  from Bolivia told me that in Bolivia there was a  JEWISH PRESIDENT
>>  who governed from 1947-1949, and whose name was Enrique Hertzog.If this
>>  would be true, than I think he would have been the only Jewish president
>>  of a country (and a Catholic one!) that is not Israel.

The previous president of Panama, Eric Arturo Delvalle, is jewish.
(He was president in name only.  The real power was in Noriega's hands)

-- 
  -=[                      Richard Urena                      ]=-
  -=[                urena@titan.ucc.umass.edu                ]=-
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:04:20 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: NO WAY! (Re: A message from Kach to the Arabs?)
 <goldberg.722164176@techunix.technion.ac.il>

In article <goldberg.722164176@techunix.technion.ac.il>,
goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) says:
>
>Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>
>>A grenade attack in East Jerusalem?!! I personally would not believe for
>>a moment that Kakh people would do such a thing, except possibly with
>>IMMEDIATE EXTREME provocation, and what constitutes THAT can certainly be
>>debated IF or when a major outrage occurs RIGHT BEFORE such an attack.
>
>>I don't believe for one INSTANT that this attack was the work of Kakh!
>>Rather, it was almost certainly that of some group seeking to further
>>muddy Kakh's name. Kakh is not so stupid, nor is it so amoral, let alone
>>immoral. THis, after all, is MURDER, hardly anything ***RABBI*** Kahane
>>might ever have given his approval to!
>
>>Yaakov K., supporter of Rav Meir Kahane, Hashem Yiqqom Dammo
>>           (may G-d avenge his blood!)
>
>    Agreed. I can see 3 logical explanations:
>    1-accident at work (TE'UNATH AVODAH): someone who played with the grenade,
>      or wanted to get rid of it and did not know how.
>    2-part of an intoxication campaign aimed at splitting the Jewish Israeli
>      opinions even deeper. Some people are indeed able to blindly kill
>      innocents for such political benefits. Any logically reasoning Jewish
>      group,KACH included, would pursue the opposite goal.
>    3-an illogical murder perpetrated by a mad person, as this unfortunately
>      occurs from time to time, at random places on our planet.
>
>  Yaaqov Goldberg, not a supporter of Rav Meir Kahane, HaShem Yiqqom Dammo,
>  taking this opportunity to express sorrow for the death and wounding of
>  innocents, everywhere, everybody.
According to an article in the Globe and Mail the other day (see Kach and
terrorism) both Kack and Kachane Chai have issued statements supporting the
attack. This puts things in a different light, even if it wasn't a Kach related
act, it has their support.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:40:32 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sex and Dawud Melekhanu(Yemenite pronunciation)
 <92325.140220GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu> <4446@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

In article <4446@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>,
aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) says:
>
>In article <92325.140220GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu> GRV101@psuvm.psu.edu (Callec
>Dradja) writes:
>>
>>At the time, I was very surprised to hear this especially since he
>>is an orthodox rabi. What do other people think? Is Rabi Michael
>>correct or should he take a refresher course on basic Jewish law?
>
>Maybe you should check his credentials.  A Rabbi named Michael??
>
If the "Rabbi Michael" referred to is Rabbi Michael Harel, who was Hillel
Director at Penn State in the mid-to-late 1980s, he was an Orthodox
rabbi in good standing.

Regrettably, he was killed in an automobile accident last week on the West
Coast, where he was living.

TNZBH
Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: niepornt@dial.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:57:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.181030.26524@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In <Bxv6vr.Dyu@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:

>>>With a lawyer who
>>>knows that there are legal loopholes large enough to drive a truck
>>>through, the teenager may well be instructed to deny everything. 

>>The Fifth Amendment is now a legal loophole?

>The fifth ammendment does not give you the right to purjure yourself.
>It only gives you the right to refuse to answer questions.  It does
>not give you the right to deny the truth.

That's true.  Now prove he denied the truth.
 
-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1993 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:03:11 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Nov23.010007.7524@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>In article <102844@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>>I apologize, if I repeat previous arguments.
>Boy, you really marked yourself as a newbie.
>On threads like this, experienced scj'ers do nothing *but* repeat
>previous arguments. And we *never* apologize.
No, I just made tshuva .
Simon

p.s. Incomplete, as u can see from me taking
this thread from the killfile
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Alia only with Brith-Mila?
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:40:55 GMT

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>However, the giving of an aliya is considered a matter of public honor,
>and synagogues can adopt any rules they like in this regard.  I recall
>some years back the SCJ outrage regarding a shul that required ties.
      May I ask about the "public honor" who is honored by whom or by what
      and why? I mean, Ploni ben Almoni because he has been called up, or 
      the Torah because it is Ploni ben Almoni that has been called up?

      Example: Ploni ben Almoni escaped some violent hijacking on his last
      trip, gets a priority for an Alyah, recites Birkath HaGomel. Is the
      Alyah an honor for Mr. Ploni deserved for having travelled, 
      or is the Torah honored by the very prompt call up for reading of
      a person whose first priority is to rush to his synagogue and publicly
      thanks Who he thinks fit for having escaped?

      If I were a Sefer Torah, I think that I would have the same tears of joy
      in my eyes as I have as a plain deadwood Jew sitting on his bench in his
      synagogue, every time that one of these almost lost Sons of our Torah
      stands up and deciphers, letter by letter, sound by sound, the few first
      words on his way back Home. 
      If I were a Sefer Torah, I think I would have tears of sorrow when some
      stone heart pretends in my name to keep any of my Sons off the limits.

      Where are You, Sefer Torah of the Kiev Synagogue which I visited twenty
      years ago, and You were guarded by KGB people who forced the reader to
      speak so low that even on the first rank Ghetto, where foreigners like
      me were seated by force, and none of the "locals" might seat, I could
      not follow the reading? The KGB has gone, but elsewhere there still are
      stone hearts who take the right to keep your Sons at distance...
 
      And did You notice, dear Sefer, how often those who pretend to tie up
      your Sons tie up their necks, just to make sure to keep their hearts
      silent, perhaps...
  
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
      Yaaqov Goldberg, optimist, Zionist.
From: exudtn@exu.ericsson.se (Derek Nelson, xt-dL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why the double standard (was Re: Why I thi
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:29:50 GMT
Reply-To: exudtn@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article 24774@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>I realize this discussion is beyond boring in that most of the
>participants have dropped out,  However....
>
>In article <RLK.92Nov15093227@underprize.think.com>
>rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>
>>In any event, Israel is more or less tolerated or better by most of the
>>world right now.  Militarily there's no sign (that I can see) of anyone
>>planning to attack it (modulo Hezbollah and friends, which have enough
>>power to kill the isolated soldier here and there, and fire the
>>occasional rocket into a northern settlement or two, but nowhere near
>>enough to threaten the overall security of Israel).  I will grant that
>>Israel's in real danger if Iraq or Iran get the bomb along with a long
>
>"Fire the occasional rocket"?????  Name one other country that would
>tolerate that?  If anyone did this to any other country, the Fifth
>Columnists in that country, their reletives, friends, aquaintences, and
>business associates would be investigated, jailed, expelled, whatever.
>There would not be the toleration you seem to be demanding of Israel.
>
>Be glad it isn't your daughter killed in the last rocket attack, but don't
>demand, from the comfort of a country that hasn't experienced regular
>(albeit "occasional") attacks, that Israel ignore them.
>-- 
I agree.  If Mexico or Canada or an emerging third world country
who gains ballistic missle technology from the remains of the 
Soviet Union or China sent a single missle to attack the U.S. the 
calls to for retallation would be deafening.  

Derek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Conservative vs. Orthodox Halacha (was Conversion Question)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:17:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.192036.12090@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.234820.2500@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>As an aside, no one argues when men take upon themselves an
>>obligation. For example, the big talit discussion going on right now
>>should note that wearing a talit is an obligation that those wearers
>>voluntarily take upon themselves.  They go out and make or buy a
>>talit just to take upon themselves this obligation.
>
>Not a good example. By O lights, a bar mitzvah *always* has the
>obligation of tzitzit; if he wears a four-cornered garment of the
>appropriate size in the daytime, it *must* have tzitzit. When a


Sure.  If ---   If --  he wears a 4-cornered garment (with all
       the right qualifications)  then  -- then -- he is always
       obligated to wear tzitzit.

We agree on that.


However, my point is:   Why is he wearing a 4 cornered garment in
the first place?   He is not obligated to wear a 4 cornered garment.

Answer: He is wearing a 4 cornered garment because he undertakes the
obligation of fulfilling the mitzvah of tzitzit.

Wearing a 4 cornered garment is a conditional mitzvah, similar to
the removing of the mother from her nest before taking the egg
mitzvah.  If you undertake to wear a 4 cornered garment then you
have a mitzvah of tzitzit.  If you don't choose to wear a 4 cornered
garment, though arguments of shalom bayit might persuade you to
choose it, but if you don't choose it then you don't have the
obligation of talit.

>bar mitzvah wears a tallit, he's not taking on a new obligation;
>he's just seeking out a situation in which the preexisting
>obligation would be relevant.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: NO WAY! (Re: A message from Kach to the Arabs?)
From: Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 13:56:08 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

A grenade attack in East Jerusalem?!! I personally would not believe for
a moment that Kakh people would do such a thing, except possibly with
IMMEDIATE EXTREME provocation, and what constitutes THAT can certainly be
debated IF or when a major outrage occurs RIGHT BEFORE such an attack.

I don't believe for one INSTANT that this attack was the work of Kakh!
Rather, it was almost certainly that of some group seeking to further
muddy Kakh's name. Kakh is not so stupid, nor is it so amoral, let alone
immoral. THis, after all, is MURDER, hardly anything ***RABBI*** Kahane
might ever have given his approval to!

Yaakov K., supporter of Rav Meir Kahane, Hashem Yiqqom Dammo
           (may G-d avenge his blood!)

yzkcu@cunyvm.cuny.edu on the Internet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish