HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIAN MINORITIES: statistics
Date: 27 Sep 1992 07:03:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au

thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>SOME STATISTICS ON ESTONIAN MINORITIES
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>In article <1a1d3fINNk27@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) 
>writes:

>> It may even be that the Estonians that the Estonian government
>> represents are in the minority (nobody in this newsgroup seems to have
>> any hard statistics) -> 
>> John Wojdylo

>Hmmmmmm..... speak for yourself about the lack of statistics. 

[various information ]

Thankyou for the information, Tapani. As for your comment, the argument
in my post doesn't depend on statistics.(As I explained, it's a matter of legal 
principle. Please reread the post carefully.)


>with the best regards
>the observer
>Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki


JW


Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:46:39 GMT

bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:

>In article <BvI5AH.MqL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>>Now, let us have another test for how good is a given system. Let's take an
>>individual with his goals and aspirations and put him through the tested system.
>>Why can't statistical result of this experiment be considered to be performance
>>indicator?
>>
>>By the way, one of the reasons why russian-jewish immigrants like america is 
>>that they had tried that experiment on themselves. 
>>
>>---Garik.

>Garik, now you are mixing two different things - jews had problems with
>getting education in Russia because they were jews.

>Then, if you'll take "person with goals and aspirations" (za zhabry)  you'll
>find that this person studies personself (let's be PC :-), skipping 
>as much as it's possible. So it was in Russia, so it is in US (e.g.,
>read Hackers or biography of almost any good scientist).

>	-igor

The comment about russian jews was just a side comment. As for self-studying
America has great libraries that are well interconnected, so as to bring you
anything you need, which makes self improvement a simpler task.

But there is still more to America than self-improvement.  For example you
are a person with a learning disabilty, would russian school system support
you.  What if you are just a bit slower, and cannot go the same pace as the
rest of your peers?  What if you have not done well in school when you
were younger, but change your ideals in an older age, would you be able
to get a good education in that case? (I meet a lot of people here, who
changed their life around after they turned 20, 30,...).  

How about case when someone wants to become an engineer, but also wants to
learn about literature, arts, cinema, etc., would he be able to learn all of
those in the same time? (mind not everyone can learn by just self-studying,
some people prefer to hear knowledge from an expert.)  Can Russian system
of education help these individuals?

---Garik.
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Solaris - the "freeway sequence"
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:50:33 GMT
Organization: ucsd
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu

I just saw the video of Solaris, Tarkovsky's adaptation for the
screen of the Stanislaw Lem novel.  I enjoyed it.  However,
I am mystified by the length of the "freeway sequence" in the first
half of the film.  What point was Tarkovsky trying to make by 
lingering on images of cars zooming along a Japanese freeway?

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
From: root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: NEW VISA SYSTEM FOR CIS
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:45:16 GMT
Organization: tbucks.com (private bitty-box)

leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
: In article <920930562@tbucks.com> root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan) writes:
: 
: >   She _is_ a permanent resident, by our INS, and has the pink (not
: >   green) card. But becoming a US resident for the XSU'rs will take many
: >   months, and $ 345.00!
: 
: As far as I understand it, it's always pink, isn't it? I mean, it's 
: only called "green" to confuse us, poor immigrants... Do these
: people from Russian Consulate demand your wife to get a card 
: which would be real GREEN in order to admit that she *really* is
: a permanent resident of this country???

No, we have to file a request with the Russian consul to permit her to be a
permanent resident here; in their view she is a temporary visitor until
they grant this permission. That is what costs $345. It was a lot simpler
in the days when one just defected!
--
Timothy.


      ------- Time is our only resource, humor our only defense. -------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: igor@cs.columbia.edu (Igor Pankevich)
Subject: Re: U.S. students poor performance in math/science = bull
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:53:28 GMT


To the question of the last math contest among high school students:
It was won by a guy from teh same high school I used to go to a while ago:
239 Leningrad (St.Petersburg) Math and Physics Liceum (now it is liceum
for those who care, I know you do, Sasha (the Krupitsky one)...
The second place was held by Israel, but the guy was from the
same school... And teh third place was won by a guy whom I know personally,
and he lives in New York (now he is in Princeton, though), but he went to
the same high school... And all three of them were in the same class, 
isn't this cute? The fourth place is held by a Chinese guy, not from
Russia. So much for Russian education, you know...

--Igor Pankevich (igor@cs.columbia.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
From: dstein@sylmar.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: ESTONIA existed and exists (Was: "SOME
Reply-To: dstein@sylmar.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 06:26:26 GMT

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
|> Yury M. Mukharsky (muh@physics1) writes:
|> >As well as Chekh kingdom did exist before 1918.
|> 
|> Not really, unless you want to go back to 10th century Moravia.
|> It is true that Bohemia was a kingdom within the German-Roman
|> empire, but I'd doubt its Czechness. In any case, it was not
|> an independent state.

   ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

   Would you please try to formulate a cogent argument about the
   lack of Czechness and independence?

   As for Moravia, the Great Moravian Empire was not a kingdom,
   and I think by the 10th century it was already gone, thanks 
   to the Magyar raids that finally disintegrated it.

 - David

p.s. So when will the Swedes give back the Royal Treasury they 
     robbed from Bohemia before their heads cooled down? :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: Spelling...
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 19:50:35 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <BvI5AH.MqL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>Now, let us have another test for how good is a given system. Let's take an
>individual with his goals and aspirations and put him through the tested system.
>Why can't statistical result of this experiment be considered to be performance
>indicator?
>
>By the way, one of the reasons why russian-jewish immigrants like america is 
>that they had tried that experiment on themselves. 
>
>---Garik.

Garik, now you are mixing two different things - jews had problems with
getting education in Russia because they were jews.

Then, if you'll take "person with goals and aspirations" (za zhabry)  you'll
find that this person studies personself (let's be PC :-), skipping 
as much as it's possible. So it was in Russia, so it is in US (e.g.,
read Hackers or biography of almost any good scientist).

	-igor
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8066 talk.politics.soviet:8213
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIAN MINORITIES: statistics
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:20:55 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOME STATISTICS ON ESTONIAN MINORITIES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <1a1d3fINNk27@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) 
writes:

> It may even be that the Estonians that the Estonian government
> represents are in the minority (nobody in this newsgroup seems to have
> any hard statistics) -> 
> John Wojdylo

Hmmmmmm..... speak for yourself about the lack of statistics. 
But, anyhow you asked for some statistics:

The 1934 census showed that Estonians formed 88.2% of the population in
Estonia.
(Accordingly, about 100 000 "non-Estonian" citizens of Estonia, the 
overwhelming majority of which consists of Russian speakers, could vote 
in the Estonian elections a week ago). 

The largest minorities in 1934 were:
Russians       8.2%
Germans        1.5%
Swedes         0.7%

Immediately after the war, in 1945, the Estonians formed approximately
94% of the population.

At the beginning of 1990s, Estonia had a population of 1,576,000.

According to 1989 census, the percentage of Estonians in the population
dropped to 61.5%
The largerst minorities:
Russians        30.3%
Ukrainians       3.1%
Byelorussians    1.8%

(I prefer to call these groups "Russian speakers" for short)

Would you like to know some estimations of the Estonian population 
in the middle ages? The Estonians were not in minority even then...

with the best regards
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Subject: Re: Russian/American Education
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:14:50 GMT

In article <cR1VRB1w165w@halcyon.com> novost@halcyon.com writes:
>
>1)  Isn't mathematicafforded more time per week than any other
>    subject in a Russian grade schook (desyatkilother than
>    the study of the Russian language itself in grades 1-4?
As of 1974 (when I graduated from 239): yes

>2)  Doesn't a typical duration at a Russian college or unitersity
>    take 5 years?
As of 1980 ( when I graduted from LGU Dept of Physcs): Tipical technical
university was 5.5, 6 days a week, > 6 hours a day (max was reached on 4th,
50 hours a week, oops it was not tipical), minus one day for military
training ( voennaya kafedra) on 2d,half of 3d, 4th, and half of 5th,
fortunately it was not a total wasting of time, I was tought to repair
electronic devices there( it proved to be vary useful skill in xSU), oops
it was not tipical too.
>3)  Does student stipend (studencheskaya stipendiya) still
>    exist?  And does the area of study one selects have anything
>    to do with the amount of the stipe?  Aren't the stipends 
>    higher for sciences, physics, etc say rather than for a
>    historian?
As of 1980:  Radiophisists have a 40% higher stipend, payed by 
military industry, in return they should be distibuted (_rspredeleny) only
into military industry, all other has the same.

>Just curious if anyone thinks any of the above have anyaring
>on the strengths in math verses other subjects such as literature,
>economics, and maybe even computer sciences?

As of 1989 (when I left xSU): The science in xSU has a very strong
hi-tech orientation. There was no such a popular (means wide spread)
profession as social worker. The common point of view ( at least among
people known to me) was that ecomomists, historians, _literaturoveds
are people without education and a real profession.



-- 
Aleksey Y. Romanov

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are entirely my own and do not
necessary reflect those of my employer or anyone else
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8093 talk.politics.soviet:8230
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA existed and exists (Was: "SOME
Date: 27 Sep 1992 17:53:40 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep27.112342.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>Unfortunately, here I must disagree. For instance, the Estonian republic
>did EXIST (1918-1940). We have to acknowledge that not only because of

No doubt about that. As well as Chekh kingdom did exist before 1918.
But in 1918 NEW country was formed. And I do think that all residents of
this country became it's residents. Same true for Hungary, Lithuania, Poland.
All these countries were occupied. Occupation lasted longer than 50 years, but
not much longer. After all 50 years in 20 centurybring more changes than 200 years
in 18-19. None of them were re-established. All of them changed political
system, after all. I think this example is more appropriate for countries
which want to be Euoropean than Libia or Algeria. Most of them accepted all
residents as citizens.

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Subject: Re: Americans and movies: something's wrong
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:01:52 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <SCS-L%92092800363378@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU writes:

> 
> Thelma and Louise was depressing?
> 
> -Mka

Oh, no! It was just depressingly bad movie...

Cheers,

Greg
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: More education talk...
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:38:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvK984.CA8
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I have a question about oral exams in Russia. I heard from a lot of people 
that often it was not enough to have good knowledge of the material, but 
having a good relation with professor would be even more helpful.  Moreover,
bad relationship with prof. were also an obstacle in getting a good grade.
How widespread was influence of prof/student relationship on grades?

And another question:  Not everyone can take an oral exam, often for psychol.
reasons.  (In my HS a very bright guy could not take a written exam, so 
teachers examined him orally)  Hence, did russian school or university
ever went out to help these people by giving them a written exam.

---Garik the Curious.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:8110 talk.politics.soviet:8242
From: qasama@banach.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: languages in ex-Soviet Union
Date: 5 Oct 1992 19:59:52 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Distribution: world
Reply-To: qasama@banach.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
NNTP-Posting-Host: banach.wpi.edu


In article <BvnLx6.An3@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:

|>     This situation where lower classes speak a language that is different 
|>     from the one that the "cultural elite" is hardly unique: 19th century
|>     Russian aristocrats often spoke French as their first language;
|>     at some point in its history the Polish-Lithuanian kingdom used
|>     Byelorussian in their official court language, the Khazar's ruling
|>     elite converted to judaism (flames > s.c.j) and, presumably, used
|>     Hebrew during the official religious ceremonies...

	Actually Poland-Lithuania had to use Ruthenian as it was then called
for civil functions as it was the language spoken by the majority of the 
populace.

It is also interesting to note that the first modern European democracy 
orginated in this polygot kingdom. (Contstution of 3 May 1791)

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
qasama@wpi.wpi.edu  / V   V OOOO TTTTT EEEE\ Always store beer in a dark place.
Worcester Polytech /_ _V V  O  O   T   EEE  \__ Moderation is for monks.
God save Lazurus Long!/ v   OOOO   T   EEEE    \ Women need no excuse.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: American Education/Soviet Education
Date: 2 Oct 1992 19:31:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct02.134616.28692@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>
>There is only one God.

Named? ....

Yury
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The Russian Embassy Phone ( N E E D )
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:37:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

voykhans@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>In article <14091.2acdd75e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>> Please, if you know the phone of the Russian Embassy let me
>> know. Thanks a lot.
>> Vadim.
>The CIS embassy number is
>(202)628-7551
>1125 16th Street
>Washington DC, 20036-4801

>The Consulate is
>(415)202-9800
>(415)959-0306 fax

>2790 Green Street
>San Francisco,CA 94123-4609

for the one in san francisco you will be lucky to get through...
I called for three days before i got pissed and started randomly dialing
extension numbers... if i remember correctly 202-9804 should work well.
i think that was the one i called...
but you had best speak russian cuz no one on that line spoke english
good luck
-kimberli katya roan
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Amer/Rus movies
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 21:19:31 GMT

In article <BvCppD.9pv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
>
>As for good movies, depressive or not, America provide plenty of those.
>More than SU in any case, where most films suffer from bad acting and bad
>montage.


	Oh no, no, no. Russian/Soviet acting school, in my opinion,
is one of the best in the world. As for the American actors, yes, some
of them are good, but the vast majority - standardized dulls, standardized
mimics, standardized bodies and muscles, standardized images etc.

	As for the montage, it is very important to distinguish between
the form and the content in art, between the tools and the objectives.

	You mentioned the main point yourself - in the Soviet Union movies
were closer to ART, in America - closer to ENTERTAINMENT and BUSINESS, this
just another aspect of the wholesale utilitarianism of the American society.

	By the way, is "Roseanne" still number 1 American show? Any comments
necessary?
From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: One God in Hinduism?
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:35:12 GMT
 6.28692@watson.ibm.com><1992Oct3.090652.22269@netcom.com><67147@cup.portal.com><GOROKHO1.92Oct4221841@husc10.harvard.edu>
Organization: Poets for Physics
In-reply-to: gorokho1@husc10.harvard.edu's message of 4 Oct 92 22:18:41

In article <GOROKHO1.92Oct4221841@husc10.harvard.edu>, 
gorokho1@husc10.harvard.edu (Zhenya Gorokhovsky) writes:


> In article <67147@cup.portal.com>, DeVoid@cup.portal.com (David - Lyall) writes:
>>>There is only one God.
>>
>>Hindus will dispute that.
>>
>>> 	Gandhi said there was only one God. I assume that he considered
>>> himself a Hindu. He said that "God is Truth". He then also said that after
>>> years of study he concluded that the obverse is true: "Truth is God".

> It is clear from your lame remark that you have no clue about 
> Hinduism, Gandhi or G-d.
> Shalom,
> Zhenya Gorokhovsky
> gorokho1@husc.harvard.edu

>         Oh, my golly goodness!  Ramsey theory in soc.bi - whatever next?
>         Rimming in sci.math?
>                                 - Kay Dekker, <idx009@cck.cov.ac.uk>

Arrrghh, folks, where does this religiously-challenged, nationally-impaired 
Harvard nerd person come from? Sounds like from Zhmerinka, don't it?
(Apologies and condolences to all Netters who actually are from
Zhmerinka). Does he deem that any non-Harvard person (he or she)
don't know that "G*d is Lies", and that it was Krishnamurti Indirovich
Gandhi that had no clue about G*d and all that shit (from a Marxist-feminist
point of view). Does he or she suppose that we've never heard the
story about Gandhi ordering to kill that poor sick calf, thus stinging 
the sensibilities of Indian Jainas to the quick? Boy, doesn't Scripture
(shit, I forget which one) say that Harvard persons are an abomination in the
eyes of G*d (forget which one). Serves 'em right to burn in an ung*dly
power furnace 'cuz they never learnt enough of that non-violence,
passive resistance, transcendental meditation stuff. _Ahimsa_ be
with you, brethren (and sistren).

Om, shanti, shanti, shanti,
Durga-ma, Kali-ma, Shiva-da,
here's our humble pranam to y'all,
please smite'em Harvard demons (an' demyns).

Philipji Maharaj.
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CIS on the internet? Why not?
Date: 26 Sep 1992 23:09:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1a2fsrINNd9v@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>more useful than appendix to the world networks -- how else you can
>explain that the internal traffic in RELCOM is two orders of magnitude
>higher than international? Eventually EUnet will became an "appendix"

Oh, that one is easy. Internal rates are about two orders of magnitude
smaller.

>[I guess it's the difference between "Americans will came and teach
>us how to to things" and "We can do it ourselves" kinds of mentality].

Do you consider EARN as appendix to BITNET? I would called it European part.
Similar as SUEARN is Russian part. Nothing wrong in making new network,
nothing wrong in becoming part of international network, too.

>
>Show me a public networking service which is LESS expensive.
>(Public means the one which is available to the general public).

sns.com (510)623-8652. E-mail, at least. I have not use them for a long 
time, so I may be wrong, by I think they also offer some telnet capabilities,
and some lesser stuff, like finger.

We are not speaking about general public, are we? We (well, at least I)
are speaking about research and educational institutions. (That's what
BITNET serves, isnot it?). BTW, have not Relcom used goverment-owned
equipment, at least in the begining (I sincerely do not know, that is
question, nothing else.)?

>Well, ask about prices of UUNET, PSI or EUnet and other organizations
>selling networking connectivity. Then multiply it by the current exchange rate.

Are you kidding? Does that mean that you wages in USSR were in accordance
with international standards, too? (Expressed in USD, of course). Nothing
wrong with this, too, just do not call Relcom charity after that.

Well, I do not know rates here, but year ago Relcom connection cost
$500 a year with 4mB quota, _incoming_mail_included_. E-mail and usenet
services were provided.

>
Again, I have nothing against Relcom, I just said that it's not a charity,
but commercial, for-profit organization.

Yury