From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:39:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <1992Jul23.213337.13734@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.224042.3352@sco.COM> paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson) writes:
>|While I personally like GURPS a lot as a system, I also find GURPS Supers
>|unplayable as written. My problem is that
>|a) there are too many characters that are impossible to build without
>|modifying the system
>
>	I suppose that this is true to some extent, but to be totally honest,
>the only characters I can think of that can't be built are the ones I don't
>want in my game in the first place.

There are lots of non abusive characters that (in Champions terms) really
need a multipower to work. A Hawkeye (Green Arrow) clone springs to mind.

>|c) its just too deadly without using all sorts of optional rules.
>
>	Oh, I don't know.  We haven't had any outright deaths in my campaign,
>and I'm not using any of the Stun silliness.  OTOH, I don't subscribe to the
>silly notion that supers aren't going to take advantage of everyday
>technology, so amongst my PC's those without natural protection wear armor.
>LOTS of it.

That is precisely the problem. I just didn't want to run a campaign where
most characters wore battle suits. Also, if the technology extends to good
armour then it also extends to weapons capable of blasting through it. What
is the use of being able to throw laser blasts that are, essentially, less
powerful than military lasers?

>
>|e) there are few rules to handle the interactions of weird powers. For
>|example, as far as I can recall, a "Martial Artist" sort has NO defence against
>|an area effect power.
>
>	Why should they?  Wear armor or die.  Make sure it's NBC sealed while
>you're at it, or Dr. Inconsiderate is going to pop you with a CHEM
>round....

I feel that it is a significant limitation of the system that various
"normal" comics character conceptions are essentially unplayable. The comics
are full of martial artists without any armour.

>	Characters in GURPS should almost never use any kind of "focus".  This
>implies that they are paying points for equipment, which is silly.  Supers
>in a TL/7 campaign should have no trouble getting their claws on heavy
>kevlar.  Characters in ultra-tech campaigns should be using monocrys and
>bioplast.

I think that we're actually in very close agreement. GURPS as written only
works for a few specific campaign types. One is the one that you seem to be
running where the players are essentially all Super Agents and wander around
with a great deal of their capability coming from generally available
technology. Unfortunately, you just cannot use the rules to produce all
sorts of "typical" comic campaigns.

To give a precise example, I'm running a pre WWII superhero/espionage/horror
campaign. Not quite a four colour campaign but definitely one with leanings
in that direction. The characters are generally trying to be sureptitious in
their actions (they're neither running around in long underwear nor in power
suits). The characters were all meant to be significantly powerful but NOT
overwhelming. It just didn't work under GURPS rules. I basically found it
impossible to make the opponents powerful enough to threaten the group
without making them powerful enough to destroy the group (the opponents were
VERY knowlegeable sorts).