HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wsc@research.att.com
Subject: Re: Open System (was pairs())
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:30:04 GMT

An important issue that goes well beyond the small matter of
the scatterplot matrix has been raised by Rolf Turner

> However I would still like to have the _option_ of suppressing the
> upper half triangle in certain instances.  So ``full=T'' should
> indubitably be the default, but the argument ``full'' (or something
> like it) should still be there.  It is irritating for a package to
> tell you ``This is the way it should be done, so this is the way you'll
> do it, boyo, and get in line and don't argue.''

and by Brian Ripley

> However, given the `open' nature of S, should there
> not be a way for users to make their own choices, even if we
> disagree with them?

One answer is that S has an extraordinary level of openness though
the marvelous design given us by Becker, Chambers, and Wilks.
It allows for rapid extension through the function mechanism.
If we do not like what we get, we can, without undue pain,
rewrite or write from scratch or hook up our favorite C or Fortran routine.
They have consistently held that the system cannot satisfy all
through its official base of functions. To try and do so creates
monuments to clumsiness, a creeping featurism that results in overloaded
functions that defy comprehension and turn into black boxes.

As Rick Becker pointed out, pairs() seemed to need expansion to
accomodate new data structures such as data frames. Something had to
go to save the function. The argument "full" seemed like a good candidate
since most often the full matrix is a better display, and in those
few cases where it is not needed, getting rid of the upper triangle
only saves a fraction of space equal to about (2*p-1)/p^2. 

But Rolf Turner might well reply that it is one thing not to include
something in the first place and quite another to rip out an existing
feature. That issue was considered as well, very carefully, but still,
"full" fell.
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: wsc@research.att.com
Subject: Re: pairs()
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:15:11 GMT

> Is there any way of suppressing the (redundant) upper-half-triangle
> of pairs plots in Splus 3.0?  In Splus 2.3 one would set ``full=F'';
> there seems to be no corresponding argument for the pairs() function
> in Splus 3.0.

Including both the upper and lower triangle is not visually
redundant. This is explained in the following excerpt from the current
draft of Visualizing Data, to be published early in 1993.

The most important feature of the scatterplot matrix is that we can
visually scan a row, or a column, and see one variable graphed against
all others with the scales for that one variable lined up along the
horizontal, or the vertical.  This is the reason, despite the
redundancy, for including both the upper and lower triangles in the
matrix; the upper left triangle of the scatterplot matrix has all of
the $p (p-1)/2$ pairs of graphs, and so does the lower right triangle;
thus altogether there are $p(p-1)$ panels and each pair of variables is
graphed twice.  Suppose that in Figure~4.1 only the upper left triangle
were present.  To see log spleen weight against everything else, we
would have to scan the first three graphs in row four from the bottom,
and then turn the corner in the (4,4) panel and go up to column four to
see the remaining two scatterplots; the five log spleen weight scales
would not be lined up, which would interfere with our ability to
perceive more than just bivariate effects. 

 William S. Cleveland          wsc@research.att.com
 AT&T Bell Labs, Room 2C-286   office: (908)582-6861
 600 Mountain Avenue           fax:    (908)582-3340
 Murray Hill, NJ  07974
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: rmh@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Richard M. Heiberger)
Subject: Re: aov() Def'n of fitted values
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:51:23 GMT

The aov calculations are very carefully designed to minimize computation.
In each stratum when there are multiple error strata, we do a QR decomposition
of exactly the right size, in this example the Fmaily %in% Crowding stratum
has 17 degrees of freedom so we solve a 17 df linear equation.

The residual and fitted results that you want to see require one more step.
	proj.pneumo <- proj(aov.pneumo)
This puts things back into the subspace and coordinate system you are
really interested in.  In my mockup of your data (assuming balance, which isn't
necessary), there are 90 observations.  So the columns of the components
of proj.pneumo have length 90.  There is one column for each line of the
anova table.  There is one component in proj.pseumo for every stratum
(including the constant, that's why you were using [[2]] and [[3]]).
Fitted values in each stratum are the sum of the non-residual
columns in each stratum.  The sum of squares of the numbers in each column
is the sum of squares in the corresponding row of the anova table.

The math is in section 5.4, especially section 5.4.4, of Statistical Models
in S.

The proj program prior to the April 1992 release had a bug.  The bug was fixed
in the April 1992 release.  If you are still using an earlier release you will
need to replace proj.default with the one I posted on June 11, 1992.
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: rab@research.att.com
Subject: Boxplots
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:22:48 GMT

Just to start a new topic: does anyone else have problems with
how complicated the boxplot() function has become?  The latest S-PLUS 3.0
reference shows 27 arguments plus "...".  The April '92 S release
has 8 arguments.  Why did StatSci decide to invent yet another
boxplot style?  Thinking around here is that perhaps the only argument
that boxplot needs is the data -- all of the fancy notches and widths
are largely unused "features" that could be eliminated.

  Rick Becker
From: marka@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Mark Andrews)
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
Subject: moderation policy, et al.  [aus] (Automatic monthy posting)
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:00:11 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Originator: marka@pride.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU


    Aus.stats.s is gatwayed with the mailing list "s-news@utstat.toronto.edu".

    All messages from the mailing list are passed on without intervention.

    All messages will be sent back to the list unless the have "[aus]"
    in the subject line (see above).

    If you are on the mailing list and wish to get off it send mail to 
    "s-news-request@utstat.toronto.edu".

	Mark Andrews (Moderator).
	marka@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: rab@research.att.com
Subject: Re: pairs()
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:09:08 GMT

Rolf Turner asked about an option to the pairs function that would
allow plotting of just one triangle, giving half of the plots.
Bill Cleveland answered about the perceptual importance of having
the full matrix of plots.  Rolf then commented:

> However I would still like to have the _option_ of suppressing the
> upper half triangle in certain instances.  So ``full=T'' should
> indubitably be the default, but the argument ``full'' (or something
> like it) should still be there.  It is irritating for a package to
> tell you ``This is the way it should be done, so this is the way you'll
> do it, boyo, and get in line and don't argue.''

My comment is that each option, like full=T, takes some work to program
and some mental effort on the part of the user to decide whether it is
appropriate or not.  And, as Bill Cleveland said, we are convinced that
the full display is important.  We usually provide an option when we
see a definite use for such an option.  Rolf has a point, that once we
did have such an option, but in answer to that, I have to say that we
were mistaken -- we did that before we understood the importance of the
regularity of the full matrix display.

The argument about programming is non-trivial: note that there are now
two substantial pairs() functions:  pairs.default() and
pairs.data.frame(), so a fully-compatible change to add a full=
argument would have to be done in two separate places, and each of
those changes would complicate the function somewhat, making it more
difficult to maintain and more difficult for users to modify should
they want to.  As it stands, I suspect that anyone who desired it could
personally install a nonstandard option like "full=T" in pairs.default
in a short time, in part because the function isn't cluttered with
other options.

  Rick Becker
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: apk@athena.mit.edu
Subject: Marsaglia's SuperDuper generator.
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:19:26 GMT

Back a bit, someone posted the C code for the Splus rng,
"Marsaglia's SuperDuper generator".
1. What is its effective period?
2. Where is a cite to it in the literature? (The LaTeX file
   explained it well, but I wish to cite it properly for an article.)

Thanks!

(response via personal e-mail, apk@athena.mit.edu, as well as a list
posting would be greatly appreciated)


Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: R.A.Rayner@massey.ac.nz (R.A. Rayner)
Subject: Freeing up memory
Summary: How do you force Splus to free up memory
Keywords: Memory
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19:31:11 GMT

	I think it has already been stated that memory management in Splus 3.0
is pretty bad and we are having trouble with arima.mle gobbling up space and not
releasing it.
	Is there any procedure available to an Splus user or a UNIX sysadmin to
force Splus to free up memory its not using anymore?

Richard Rayner
Maths/Stats
Massey University

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TYPE	god = INTEGER ;
VAR	EricClapton : god ;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: aus.stats.s
From: Peter Dalgaard SFE <pd@kubism.ku.dk>
Subject: aov() Def'n of fitted values
X-Gateway: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU
Organization: CSIRO Div. Maths & Stats, CSIRO Div. Applied Physics
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:21:07 GMT


I've been trying to reproduce an example from Armitage & Berry, Ex. 8.7
to be precise.

There are three factors involved:
Crowding(3 levels)
Family(6 levels, only relevant within crowding groups)
Status(5 levels, meaning father, mother, and 1st-3rd child)

The design is 3x6x5 factorial.

This model works, and gives results as in A&B:
positive.swabs~Crowding*Status+Error(Family %in% Crowding)

Next, I wanted to devise control plots, so I wanted to plot residuals
vs. fitted values. After a while, I figured out that I needed to extract
z1<-aov.pneumo[[2]]
z2<-aov.pneumo[[3]]
in order to get at the results for the two error strata. Then I could
plot(z1$fitted,z1$residuals)
or
plot(fitted(z1),residuals(z1))

The trouble is that I cannot figure out what these quantities mean.
What I would expect is that the  Family %in% Crowding stratum results
were essentially a one-way aov on the Family * Crowding averages. Thus
there should be only three distinct fitted values, corresponding to
the levels of Crowding. However, z1$fitted is a vector with 17 distinct 
values, numbered 2-18. I also can't seem to get the sum or
difference of z1$fitted and z1$residual to be something recognizable.
I'm confused!

	Peter Dalgaard
	(pd@kubism.ku.dk)
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: ta@labserver.canberra.edu.au (The Avatar)
Subject: Re: Shit for NZ'ers brainz
Organization: University of the Clouds
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 23:00:57 GMT

rswiftrw@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:

>And I just hate it when I find someone is so weak as not to answer my 
 original
>witty repartee.

Rod Swift you are really having yourself on.  'Witty repartee' is certainly 
something of which you are completely devoid.  Along with your kiwi 
friends, yes friends, the whole lot of you are totally inept and not worthy 
of posting to a.f.  The tedious sheep thread etc, that is an inherent part 
of the trans-tasman so called flame war, along with the boring and 
continuous character/country assassination is just let go by those of us 
who allege to have thrown off our newbie status.  

 >Get a life, or answer my original message.
>
>No!  Do both!

You need to heed your own words here my boy!





mutatis mutandis mutato nomine nonsum qualis eram note bene
Newsgroups: aus.flame
Subject: Re: DIE SCUMBAGS AND NEW ZEALANDERS
From: zoltar@amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 11:45:50 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand

u867278@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Dov Berns) writes:

> Grammer is a thing of the past and hopefully the future.  I do not riet to
> os.flaem to praktis mi gramatikl skils but too flaem. I no that maeni of yu
> wil flaem mi spelng in this artikl but I am foloeing the leed set bi the
> graet libraerien Melvil Dui so I do not giv a shit ubout yoor Kritisisms
> 
> Cheers and Flaem away Dov Berns
>   
> 

 
yes, yet again folks we have another prime example of sheer brilliance in 
the art of Bad Grammar and writing skills, this guy id obviously a 
English class dropout, and obviously got his typing skills from a box of 
weetbix... 
 
`Upon the mighty plain of flames and criticsims, we see a barrage of 
typos and grammar errors, upon which we immediately are reminded of the 
one and only, Dov Burmns.. A man in his own right of english class 
dropouts and creator of the solar powered underpants remover (tm) and
user of the infamous `Squick' (tm) of small rodents and other furry 
creatures dotting the plains of the Australian outback.'
 
Now there's literature for ya..
 

-- 
Grant Thoms (aka Zoltar - Silent Imperium) Co-SysOp of Silent Imperium 
I can be contacted at zoltar@glasgow.amigans.gen.nz
or if there are problems contacting me there: zoltar@amigans.gen.nz
 
Standard Disclaimer.... 
 
Quote of the moment: `Please insert $10 for the next 0.5 seconds'
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Pleasantries, and corrupted minds...
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:10:08 GMT

zoltar@amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms) writes:
 
>> Now, fuck off!
 
>> PS: It wasn't me.

>erm.. 
 
Ellypsis requires *three* dot's.

>this guy must be a Immigrant to Australia.
 
That sentence is incorrect!
From: u867278@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Dov Berns)
Newsgroups: aus.flame
Subject: Re: Brand new, just out, gotta love me! :)
Date: 29 Sep 92 06:47:48 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.

What is this my god some goddamn Kiwis and the all seem to have the same 
to say bloody nothing.  Perhaps it is because the use an amiga for a net
server how pathetic.

Dov Berns
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: Brand new, just out, gotta love me! :)
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 28 Sep 92 03:55:00 GMT

batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson) writes:

>Well, the word `Wibble' was first used (as far as I know) by someone 
>called StormLord of Silent Imperium about 1 and a half years ago at a 
>Silent Imperium meeting/copy party.  It was used for EVERYTHING.  
>WibbleMatic Toasters, Wibble Imperium, even the name of the very popular 
>Silent Iperium BBS (the old name, as Wibble was way-cool).

Hey, really cool, man! But, Jeez, it's a bit way off! All the guys and
chicks over here KNOW about "wibble"s, and have a sketchy idea of first
coining! Apologies to Kerry for making him (or her) feel so silly and
insignificant, and even grosser apologies for all the lucky people who
already knew, that:

"Wibble" is the way a nun with a cold describes her headcloth!

>Just abit of inane dribble from an underpayed graphic artist and 
>musician... thanx for listening to my story (which is 100% true I might 
>add).  Bye bye.

Didn't you know that BBS infestations are not welcome - here, or anywhere
else. BBS's are a means of concentrating them so they can be transported
to another planet asap. 

And if you ARE a graphic artist, or a musician, something about which you
seek more financial reward, you wouldn't waste your time here!

>BTW: I don't REALLY hate ALL Ozzies, just the Australian ones... although 
>I do like watching Hey Hey! :)  Chow.

I understand! Now, change your underpants!

Tomasso.
Newsgroups: aus.flame,alt.flame,alt.cascade,alt.non.sequitur
From: cmp3175@tamuts.tamu.edu (Constantine M Pappas)
Subject: Re: Wibble
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 06:18:31 GMT

>>>>>>wibble.
>>>>>dweeb! 
>>>>goatfucker!
>>> coat hanger.
>boat danger
cliff dweller
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: aus.flame
Subject: Re: Du Ja Ve...
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:26:12 GMT
 <heard.717371400@franklin> <ta.570.0@labserver.canberra.edu.au> <QbTJr*Z90@prolix.apana.org.au>
 <wkgz7-f@rpi.edu>
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <wkgz7-f@rpi.edu>, James G. Keegan Jr. writes:

> dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton) writes:
> ->In article <ta.570.0@labserver.canberra.edu.au>, The Avatar writes:
> ->> You're a coward DAC
> ->Kill yourself right now!
> 
> it's clear dac, you're a hero.

Keegsy! What the fuck you doin' hiking around aus.f^hlame?

Back to alt.flame with you, poor-boy!

                     ** <<>> BANISH <<>> **

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_

** NOTE ** my mailfeed is currently down. Email via dac@prolix.sserve ...
From: zwang@ee.uts.edu.au (Z Wang)
Newsgroups: aus.flame
Subject: Test1
Date: 28 Sep 92 06:29:28 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
Distribution: aus
NNTP-Posting-Host: transmit.ee.uts.edu.au
Summary: try
Keywords: ignore it

This is a test only.
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: keegan@acm.rpi.edu (James G. Keegan Jr.)
Subject: Re: Du Ja Ve...
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:57:23 GMT

dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton) writes:
->In article <ta.570.0@labserver.canberra.edu.au>, The Avatar writes:
->> You're a coward DAC
->Golly! Next we could do:
->              The night the lights went out in .edu!
->                               or
->                     Do The Funky Labserver
->                 Down and Out in Canberry Faire
->Eff ewe cee, kay oh eff, eff you mindless twat
->fuck right off
->fuck right off
->Kill yourself right now!

it's clear dac, you're a hero.

Newsgroups: aus.flame,alt.flame,alt.cascade,alt.non.sequitur
From: espensk@stud.cs.uit.no (Espen Skoglund)
Subject: Re: Wibble
Organization: University of Tromsoe
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 03:58:16 GMT

>>>>>>>>>wibble.
>>>>>>>>dweeb! 
>>>>>>>goatfucker!
>>>>>>coat hanger.
>>>>>coat hanger?
>>>>goat cancer?
>>>Moat dancer.
>>I think I just shit in my pants, sir.
>I think I lust after ants, sir.
Did I just mention my plants? Sure?
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: ta@labserver.canberra.edu.au (The Avatar)
Subject: Re: Du Ja Ve...
Organization: University of Canberra
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 05:25:09 GMT

(James G. Keegan Jr.) writes:

>looking for heros dac, looking for heros. and a tough
>task it is too.

Yes you're plum out of luck at the moment.  My secretary may be able to take
a pencilled in appointment for later next year. 


mutatis mutandis mutato nomine nonsum qualis eram note bene
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: Singular@csc.canberra.edu.au (Singularity)
Subject: Re: Brand new, just out, gotta love me! :)
Organization: Discontinuous
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 00:37:21 GMT

In article  batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson) writes:

>Just abit of inane dribble from an underpayed graphic artist and 
>musician... thanx for listening to my story (which is 100% true I might 
>add).  Bye bye.

You said it !

>BTW: I don't REALLY hate ALL Ozzies, just the Australian ones... although 
>I do like watching Hey Hey! :)  Chow.

Do all these wankers come out of the same mold ?

Singo - "gag!"
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: Singular@csc.canberra.edu.au (Singularity)
Subject: Re: ian's memory
Organization: Discontinuous
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 02:43:24 GMT

In article <8!rzcc@rpi.edu> keegan@acm.rpi.edu (James G. Keegan Jr.) writes:

>In <axolotl.718173894@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:
>->I don't remember you from anywhere.

>of course you don't! and please, please don't feel
>inadequate. i imagine your lust for the u.s.a. has
>interfered with even your most basic functions.

Go away.

Singo - "Bloody Yanks"
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: Singular@csc.canberra.edu.au (Singularity)
Subject: A war on the USA and/or NZ
Organization: Discontinuous
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 03:03:21 GMT


If it wasnt for the lack of worthy opponents it might be fun,
how can I convince my kids not to become mindless fools when
such a fine example emanates from Uncle Sam. Movies and TV
full of self-important dribble , what a feeble ego that land
has. NZ is not much better, at least thet dont try and convert
you but one does get tired of have to explain everything twice.

The trouble with foreign posters is that their grasp of the
culture is superficial or non-existent, not to mention a 
generally poor vocabularly. I despise having to couch a post in
simple, sometimes ugly , english. What can we do but ignore
these usurpers, 'killfiles' for those who can, lets do it together.
Respond no more to their feebleness...

Singo - "United ?"

 
Newsgroups: aus.flame,alt.flame,alt.cascade,alt.non.sequitur
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u)
Subject: Re: Wibble
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:58:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.192421.3956@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mbur@nyx.cs.du.edu (MAC) writes:
>gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) writes:
>>u2119784@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes:
>>>mbur@nyx.cs.du.edu (MAC) writes: 
>>>> u2119784@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes:
>>>>>act@csc.canberra.edu.au (Cyclops) writes:
>>>>>>u2119784@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes:
>>>>>>>wibble.
>>>>>>dweeb! 
>>>>>goatfucker!
>>>> coat hanger.
>>>coat hanger?
>>goat cancer?
>Moat dancer.
I think I just shit in my pants, sir.

-- 
KEN BREADNER: student lunatic. Opinions expressed herein are mine, unless
they aren't, in which case, well, they aren't. Wilfrid Laurier University:
'abandon hope, all ye who enter here!' --Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. 
"2+2=5, the future is behind us and the past is on its way. Please hold."
Newsgroups: aus.flame
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Subject: Re: Shit for flames
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
Date: 28 Sep 92 08:24:58 GMT

zoltar@amigans.gen.nz (Grant Thoms) writes:
 >Grant Thoms (aka Zoltar - Silent Imperium) Co-SysOp of Silent Imperium 
                   ^^^^^^

Zoltar... wasn't he some cartoon baddie who wore lipstick?  That must
be a fashionable name for Kiwis who are trying vainly to distinguish
themselves from the other Grants and Dereks.

O Wearer of Lipstick, come over to aus.culture.paddington-bore, there's
plenty of young men who'll be turned on by the STATUS and POWER of a
CO-SYSOP!  The sooner they find a one-night-stand they can tell everybody
about, the better.


--
 Iain Sinclair    axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
From: daniel@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (daniel@goanna)
Newsgroups: aus.flame
Subject: Time to reflect
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:09:11 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia


 .erongi esaelp tset a si sihT
Newsgroups: aus.flame