HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sherw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Gregory Sherwin)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Santa as a tool to opress the masses (was Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 17:55:33 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash.berkeley.edu

In article <1goki8INN6d7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>Just because Santa is a nice guy and gives things to people, some people
>get the idea that it's somehow an issue of distribution of wealth.
>Why do we have to assume that Santa *owes* anybody anything?  He's
>not out to save the world, and he's not your damn savior or anything.
>
>If I decide to give you a new car, are you going to complain that I didn't
>give a new car to everyone on the planet?
>
>Sheesh.

Lighten up - I mean, I was only poking fun at what the political and 
philosophical implications would be if applied to Santa Claus - I never
meant to be taken seriously nor get into some philisophical discussion about
a ficticious entity to begin with.  Really.  A sense of humor is so hard
to find in this country that people often miss your sarcasm about non-existent
things and then go on seriously discussing them as if there were truth to the
premise.

And by the way - if you gave me a new car is one thing, but if you gave new
cars to only those with incomes above $100,000 per annum and gave 3-packs
of tube socks to those earning under $10,000 per annum I may not complain,
but I would say that your motivations for doing such pose interesting
political questions that are worth discussing.  Your answer seems to be
"take the goods and shut up" in a manner that encourages censorship of
any thought or discussion of your personal or political motivations.  The
question was not whether Santa *owed* anybody anything or that he is supposed
to be my "damn savior" (whatever that's supposed to mean), but it was
a question about his obvious favoritism.  Sorry that political and philosophical
discussion scares you - I figure you are either a Central American dictator
or a reactionary relative of Santa's who is bitter at the world because
some impoverished 3-year-old recipient of a yo-yo forgot to say "thank you" one
time.

WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING!!! - now you have me talking seriously about this
crap!

greg
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: jmkerrig@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KERRIGAN JOHN M)
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:12:53 GMT

In article <1gin0sINNolm@mizar.usc.edu> rrobinso@mizar.usc.edu (Rebecca Robinson) writes:
>I am of the opinion that any debate over Santa vs. Satan is unfounded.  Whether
>or not Santa exists is up to each individual person.  One of the reasons I
>decided to subscribe to this newsgroup was in the hope that people
>would say good things about Santa Claus.
[stuff deleted]
>Santa, whether a physical entity or just the
>embodiment of "the spirit of giving", is not a vice.  It would seem to me that
>the spirit of giving and the spirit of Christmas can be taught to children 
>using something to which they can easily relate, without having so many 
>Scrooges put down such wonderful ideas.
>
>So, I say, hurrah for Santa and all his elves, because his example can be used
>to teach children how to be loving and giving human beans.
>
>Merry Christmas!!!
>

Hear Hear!!!

And on that note, I request that this group accept the challenge of
converting it's first non-believer into the fold.  I have a friend who
laughs and ridicules me for actually taking the time to read the articles
in this newsgroup.  He actually claims that there is no Santa Claus and
anyone who would spend time reading articles discussing him is an idiot! 

I have already given him the original posting to this group to read (Yes
Virginia, There Is a Santa Claus) and he even laughed at that!

Would anyone who has proof (or even good arguments) as to the existence of
Santa Claus please e-mail him with the same at mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu.

Even if you don't have positive proof, perhaps you can simply explain to
him why it would be a bad idea not to believe in Santa.

Thanks for helping me in this most important work.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**        John Kerrigan        a.k.a.  jmkerrig@vela.acs.oakland.edu        **
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: gtapolow@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Tapolow)
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:27:05 GMT


Gosh, they both have beards...Wait I have a beard....I like snow...
	Oh no. I must be satan/santa

Boy, this is really gonna screw up my weekend...


THE ABOVE NONSENSICAL DRIVEL BROUGHT TO YOU BY

Greg
	(Not a division of hallmark)
--
Begining my quest for the ultimate (working)    Greg A. Tapolow
sig						gtapolow@nyx.cs.du.edu
all rights turned left				probably at albequerque
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:40:28 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Dec14.202705.1896@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gtapolow@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Tapolow) writes:
>
>Gosh, they both have beards...Wait I have a beard....I like snow...
>	Oh no. I must be satan/santa

And of course:

God = love
love = blind 
Ray Charles = blind
Ray Charles = God = love
From: rcbaaw@rw6.urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:17:24 GMT
Reply-To: rcbaaw@urc.tue.nl

cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury) writes:

>gtapolow@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Tapolow) writes:


>>Gosh, they both have beards...Wait I have a beard....I like snow...
>>	Oh no. I must be satan/santa

>>Boy, this is really gonna screw up my weekend...

>Hey! So do I... Holy Bat-Beards, we're omniscient!!!! :)
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^

Don't you mean omnipresent?
I mean, if you were omniscient, you would have known the word is omnipresent.

:-)

Angelo Wentzler
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: "Mike Clemens" <mclemens@blueberry.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:44:50 -0500

In article <1gin0sINNolm@mizar.usc.edu> rrobinso@mizar.usc.edu (Rebecca Robinson) writes:
>I am of the opinion that any debate over Santa vs. Satan is unfounded.  Whether
>or not Santa exists is up to each individual person.  One of the reasons I
>decided to subscribe to this group is in hopes that people would say good
>things about Santa Claus.
>
> ... history of St. Nick ...
>
>So, I say, hurrah for Santa and all his elves, because his example can be used
>to teach children how to be loving and giving human beans.

If this was in response to my post, honestly, you took it too
seriously.  The Santa/Satan list was just a silly little diversion
dreamt up by very tired grad students
in a very grey building
with very few windows.

I honestly have nothing against Santa/Saint Nicholas/Kris
Kringle/etc., I feel that it is a fine tradition that has, alas,
suffered at the hands of advertisers and store owners and anyone
wishing to capitalize on Christmas (which seems to be about everyone.)
(Why does the American Santa wear red?  Because Coca-Cola always
advertised him that way...)  We adults all-too-often pervert the
"true" spirit of Christmas in the name of performing some yearly
ritual.  We try to instill our children with glassy-eyed wonder as we
tell tales of a jolly man, flying through the air at midnite,
dispensing joy, happiness, and (of course) toys to all good little
tykes, etc., etc..  Children really don't need that much encouragement
to believe in Santa and, left to their own devices, could probably
adhere to the *real* tradition much better than their parents.  Is it
really necessary to sell plastic "Santa Stop Here" lawn signs?  Or
have a 1-900 number so kids can talk direct to St. Nick (95 cents the
first minute, $2 each additional.)  I agree that the tradition
(meaning the one America adopted from Europe) is beautiful, that it
might instill in children an appreciation for goodness and love and
caring and sharing.  I have no difficultly with that at all.  I'm just
saddened to see what has happened to the Santa legend... and my
previous post tied in with that theme.  What could be more ludicrous
than Geraldo (or any talk-show mud-maven) attempting to prove that
Father Christmas was in fact the Prince of Darkness?

It was *supposed* to be silly, honest -- I was not trying to prove
anything or make any implicit statement about Santa (or Satan, for
that matter.)  Forgive and forget -- it's Christmas, after all...

- Mike
From: palmer@iels03.Kodak.COM (Erika Palmer)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: weird trees
Keywords: aluminum, tacky, unfathomable
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:08:57 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY

In article <1gqluhINN675@news.aero.org>, wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen) writes:

|> 
|> We've still got flocked trees in L.A.  Blue, red (pink), yellow, or
|> white.  Why oh why?  Lack of snow for Christmas seems to do strange
|> things.  It's hard to see the festivity of the decorations when it's
|> 85 degrees outside (which we don't have this year so far, so it
|> actually does feel a little more Christmassy).
|> -- 
|> William A. Emanuelsen    I degaussed my girlfriend and I'm
|> wae@aerospace.aero.org      just not attracted to her anymore.

I think they do it because it's so dry there, all the needles would fall off the tree once you
got it home, if it didn't have the flocking holding them on. :)

Oh, the days of 85 degree Christmases. This is the one time of year I'm glad I'm not in
Santa Clarita, but in gloomy, snowy Rochester. :)

Erica
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism,alt.sex.bondage
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: "Christmas in the Flesh District", by Danielle Willis
Summary: A performance, 19 December 
Keywords: Santaism meets Satanism
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:01:49 GMT

      For those interested in both...

      December 18-19, at 11:30 PM, Climate Theatre, 252 9th St, San
Francisco, presents Danielle Willis's special "XXX-mas" show, including
"appearances by Slutty Santa and the Elves of Bondage".  Willis is
a brilliant, biting wit, a stripper, dominatrix, and poet.  (Read her
book, "Dogs in Lingerie").  Her inside view of life in the sex
industry is without illusion or embarassment.  Directed by Cintra
Wilson.

      Reservations 415-626-9196.  $10.

					John Nagle
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki)
Subject: Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on
Organization: Systems Development Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:06:33 GMT

In article <1girfsINN1dq@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.202705.1896@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gtapolow@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Tapolow) writes:
>>
>>Gosh, they both have beards...Wait I have a beard....I like snow...
>>	Oh no. I must be satan/santa
>
>And of course:
>
>God = love
>love = blind 
>Ray Charles = blind
>Ray Charles = God = love
>

Let's not forget:

Nothing is better than God.
A warm beer is better than nothing.
Ergo:  A warm beer is better than God.

Happy Christmas, everyone!
-- 
Ken Konecki
e-mail:kenk@sdc.com    -or-    ...!uunet!tellab5!sdc!kenk
"Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: rey@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Troy Lovata)
Subject: RE:you never see them Blah, blAh, bLaH
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:37:03 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

	Just what we need, insinuations that Rush Limbaugh is Santa
	in disguise. Yeah, it was his naturally jolly, kind, caring,
	and giving personality that should've tipped us off. Perhaps
	Pat Buchanan is an elf too? And I want a my little pony, and
	a batman car, and a 9mm Berreta for when I have to play with
	non-christian kids. Gee, can't wait until this groups gets
	filled with Big.Fan.Rush crossposts.

		rey
From: sherw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Gregory Sherwin)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: you never see them Blah, blAh, bLaH
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:50:31 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <Dec15.163703.5627@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> rey@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Troy Lovata) writes:
>	Just what we need, insinuations that Rush Limbaugh is Santa
>	in disguise. Yeah, it was his naturally jolly, kind, caring,

Personally, my first reaction to that posting was in the vein of the Santa
vs. Satan discussion - that "MY GOD!  IT'S TRUE!" - I have never seen
Santa or Satan together in the same photograph.

Of course i haven't seen Satan and Rush Limbaugh in the same photograph
either, which poses equally interesting thoughts.

greg
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Santa as a tool to opress the masses (was Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:19:04 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1gnpdqINNqfn@agate.berkeley.edu> sherw@ocf.berkeley.edu (Gregory Sherwin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.220352.13406@penet.fi> an1196@anon.penet.fi writes:
>>
>>Seemed to me it was the rich brats with nice parents that got all the
>>good stuff, the whole Santa hoax was just another way of proving to us
>>that were pissed all over as kids that we DESERVED to be pissed all
>>over.
>>
>Wow!  I mean - the poster intended to be amusing in part, but of all my
>Christmasses I have never thought of Santa that way.  I mean, Santa is obviously
>no socialist, but believes in rewarding children with gifts usually to the
>level of their economic status.  Which means, generally speaking, he gives
>more to the rich and less to the poor.  Hmmm - the political and philosophical
>implications of this are very amusing...


Listen, the critic is just buying into the Christian conception of 
omnipotent deities that are going to solve everyone's problems.  This
is absurd.  Santa does not pretend to be Jesus Christ.  Heck, he probably
isn't even *friends* with that schmuck.

Just because Santa is a nice guy and gives things to people, some people
get the idea that it's somehow an issue of distribution of wealth.
Why do we have to assume that Santa *owes* anybody anything?  He's
not out to save the world, and he's not your damn savior or anything.

If I decide to give you a new car, are you going to complain that I didn't
give a new car to everyone on the planet?

Sheesh.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: rslade@fraser.sfu.ca (Robert Slade)
Subject: A sacrificial bitstream
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:32:11 GMT

Originally posted on UBC's MTS system by:
 9298/38. Lionel Kearns        19:30 Tue Dec 13/88
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`                                                        `
`                                                        `
`            *                       *                   `
`            P               * * * * | * * * *           `
`           /E\              l l L I G H T l l           `
`          */A\*             \ \ I N T H E / /           `
`         /*/C\*\             \ \ V O I D / /            `
`        */*/E\*\*                  |F|                  `
`       /*//* *\\*\                 |O|                  `
`            O                      |R|                  `
`            N                    EVERYONE               `
`          EARTH                 XXXXXXXXXX              `
`                                                        `
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: pquince@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Quince)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Can you please change the name?
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:54:09 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL

gunn@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (John Gunn) writes:

>In article <1992Dec13.222319.13265@news.columbia.edu> krim@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Karl Rim) writes:
>>
>>First of all, the name was way too close to saTaNism for me.
>>My first reaction was to freak and wonder what the heck was going on.
>>Of course when I read a couple of the articles I finally realized my mistake.
>>
>>However I personally feel that the name brings too much of a bad 
>>connotation and may even turn away new readers who may have made the
>>same mistake as I did.  How about just alt.religion.santa-claus or
>>something to that effect.
>>
>I think it's important at this point to emphasize that santaism and 
>satanism are both equally valid religious belief systems.  To imply that
>one or the other has a 'bad connotation' is an example of narrow-minded
>bigotry.

>John Gunn, [etc.]


The original poster Karl Rim was discussing connotation; he made an honest 
expression of personal opinion.  He was not guilty of, for example, narrow-minded
labelling.  He was talking about how he felt.  I mean, consider:  just because 
John Gunn has implied that Satanism has bad connotations only to narrow-minded 
bigots like Sharon Tate and her ilk doesn't mean that I am going to rush right out and 
label him a self-important nihilist snob.  I have no idea what he is really like as 
a person, so I have no right to make snap judgements like that.  So come on, now, 
lets give one another a break!  You're no doubt both fine fellows.

pquince
--
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: eng10392@nusunix1.nus.sg (PETER DAVEKUMAR STEPHENS)
Subject: MERE MORTALS THE DEITY SPEAKETH
Summary: HARK 
Keywords: HO HO HO
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:20:58 GMT


	From the Albert, chief elf 
	undersecretary to St Nicholas

 		I'd like to take this oppurtunity to say how really glad
that the old chap is finally getting the kind of recognition that he
deserves.Tears come to my eyes when I think about the countless times
he's dragged that old body out into the bitter cold to do the rounds.Heaven
knows that none of us aare getting any younger but it really is a wonder
how he maintains the enthusiasm to fuel him through the long hours on
the job. It really would be nice if people could be just a little to the
old fellow. I haven't the faintest idea who it was that started that
vicious rumour that StNick likes milk and cookies. He's not the type to
complain of course but all of us at G.H.Q. always thought that Santa's
lactose intolerance was common knowledge.What he really needs is a good
shotof vodka though he does have a weakness for rum.And cookies! Don't
all you well meaning souls know how difficult it is to dislodge oreos
from a pair of dentures.Anyway I musn't allow myself to ramble3 on for
to long now so I'll say my goodbyes. 



Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
From: an3148@anon.penet.fi (Scrooge)
Subject: Mother Theresa for Santahood
X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.santaism
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:03:13 GMT


I think Mother Theresa is a much better candidate as a role model of
"the spirit of giving" than the fat guy in the red suit levitating
about the planet doling out presents on some greed driven capitalist
system whereby the rich get truckloads of fancy gifts and the poor get
squat, explained by the fact that the poor mus be "naughty" and the
rich therefore are somehow morally superior.

Mother Theresa for santahood:

(a) she is real
(b) she is alive
(c) she is not buried in hundreds of years of myth

Imagine the Scenario, four hundred years from now:

The magical Mother Theresa, levitating about the Indian countryside in
a rickshaw pulled by a matched set of tiny brahman cattle, distributing 
food and clothing and medical supplies to all the poor and sick and
starving children.


Bill
(If you can't tell if I'm serious, well that's the POINT!)

Double Humbug.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: Re: Santa as a tool to opress the masses (was Re: Santa vs. Satan, the debate lingers on)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 03:01:25 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Dec15.220352.13406@penet.fi> an1196@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>In article <1gkurvINNc2o@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>>Phooey.  I am always naughty and I get lots of nice presents.  You have
>>to remember that Santa is a softie.
>>
>
>Phooey shmooey.  That just proves another of my points, like why the
>fat guy is nice to YOU but treated ME like yesterday's breakfast.
>
>Seemed to me it was the rich brats with nice parents that got all the
>good stuff, the whole Santa hoax was just another way of proving to us
>that were pissed all over as kids that we DESERVED to be pissed all
>over.


Very funny.  Maybe you have a somewhat exaggerated idea of what I meant.

When I say "nice presents" I don't mean the Super Nintendo-of-death with
the 27" screen and full VR kit, or a couple of BMWs.  

Let's see, last Christmas I got, ah hmmm, I got a T shirt, a subscription to
Guns & Ammo, and two books.  I consider those to be nice presents.  I didn't
expect or want anything particularly grander than that.

This Christmas I'm getting a plane ticket to fly back to Oregon and see
my parents.  Probably nothing else, though it's possible I might get
a hundred bucks if it happens to be available.  

Is that average?  Seems pretty average to me.  And I have nothing against
Santa, and I won't shoot any reindeer.

Xref: sparky alt.religion.santaism:16 alt.magnus.and.ketil:64
From: rrobinso@mizar.usc.edu (Rebecca Robinson)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism,alt.magnus.and.ketil
Subject: Human beans
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:24:44 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Just for the record, I was referring to Roald Dahl's Big Friendly Giant, who
has some similar characters to Santa Claus.  He called us "human beans" 
because of a speech impediment.  But enough about all this, back to the
spirit of this group:  Santa Claus.

I don't have a Christmas tree, but I do have tinsel for one:

*****************************************************************

Merry Christmas!!
From: rct@fulcrum.co.uk (Richard Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism
Subject: You stole my .signature!
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:42:58 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

Need I say more?

Regards,
============================================================================
Richard Taylor                  DoD #981                 (rct@fulcrum.co.uk)
   Heard about the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa?
============================================================================
Fulcrum Communications Ltd., Fordrough Lane, Birmingham, B9 5LD, ENGLAND.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.santaism