HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Yet another Lyme question
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:26:31 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <1992Sep26.165717.5932@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
 odp@ldgo.columbia.edu (carl brenner) writes:
>In article <1863@hsdndev.UUCP>, rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes
>> Neither of these papers discusses relapse rates.  
>> The second paper did find the development of what the authors called 
>> "minor late symptoms" in significantly less than half the patients that 
>> they studied (judging from the abstract -- I haven't pulled the actual
>> paper).
>
>I almost get the feeling you didn't even read my post. I used a *direct*
>*quote* from the first paper that said that low doses of tetracyclines and 
>penicillin were associated with an "inordinately" high failure rate.

Yes, I read your post.  The referenced paper nonetheless does not discuss
relapse rates.  It does talk about late sequellae of disease developing
(in many fewer than 50% of patients).  If I treat strep throat for
1 day and because of inadequate therapy, the sore throat comes back, this
is a relapse (or if it didn't ever go away, a failure to cure).  If 
rheumatic fever develops, an immunologic sequella of strep infection, this
is not a relapse.

>As for your quote from the abstract, I would simply ask: "minor" to whom?

I put "minor" in quotation marks for just that reason -- to point out
that I was repeating the authors words, not making my own value 
judgement.

>It was a CONTROLLED study, David!! *None* of the 16 controls had positive
>PCR assays. I agree that PCR is not perfect, but when one group is 8/12 and
>the other is 0/16, I think it's pretty convincing. Why, when confronted with
>evidence like this, do you choose to look for an explanation that denies the
>obvious? I really have a hard time understanding this. 

As I wrote, I have not pulled the paper in question.  Were the controls
people who had been proven to have Lyme but who were cured without
neurologic sequellae?

I get "confronted" with all sorts of "obvious" conclusions in medicine.
People write papers saying that the link between increased use of 
inhalers and asthma deaths mean that inhalers are killing people.  Then
I have to decide whether the authors' "obvious" conclusion holds up
under scrutiny before I start changing my practice.  I do my best to
keep an open but skeptical mind.

-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
From: susan@uvmark.uucp (Susan Todhunter - (JWT))
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Doctors' credentials
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:42:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <16620@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>
>Well, it is so unusual a request that I expect most doctors might
>refuse just because they were suspicious that this was going to
>be a problem patient.  I also suspect that statistically it would
>be a wise thing to do.
>-- 


What is a "problem patient"?

-- 

  Susan Todhunter
 
  Internet: uvmark!susan@merk.com, UUCP: uunet!merk!uvmark!susan
Xref: sparky sci.med:18039 sci.med.physics:405 sci.bio:3395 sci.bio.technology:260 sci.physics:15519
From: barkdoll@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Edwin Barkdoll)
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.physics,sci.bio,sci.bio.technology,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Bone-muscle lever types
Keywords: bone muscle levers
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:02:48 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <HiuoRB1w165w@sound.cts.com> markr@sound.cts.com (Mark B. Reinhold) writes:
>Hello All;
>
>I have been given a challange by my anatomy professor, and am
>looking for help.
>
>She has challanged us to find any more type 1 or type 2 lever
>types in the body than the ones that she has given us.
>
>For type one, there is only one, which is the alanto-occipital
>jt. - raising the head off the chest.

	This is false -- the atlanto-occipital joint is not the only
1st class lever in the body.  Your mission, should you choose to accept
it, is to find others and point them out to your professor. :-)

>For type two, she gave us two examples, standing on your toes,
>and the JM join movement.
>
>Does anyone know of any other joints in the body that would fit
>in either of the above catagories?

	Seriously though, given the definitions of 1st, 2nd and 3rd
class levers together with the knowledge you have from anatomy class
wouldn't it be more interesting and worthwhile to go sleuthing on your
own rather than asking the net?


Edwin Barkdoll
barkdoll@cattell.psych.upenn.edu
eb3@world.std.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Excess Of Vitamin C?
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:01:48 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <26438@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:

>Our distant ancestors ate an awful lot of fresh wild fruit, which
>typically is much higher in C content than cultivated shop-shelf
>fruit. I wouldn't be surprised if their diet contained 10 or more
>grams of vit C a day.

Not so.  Out quite distant ancestors survived on diets quite
low in vit C if not outright deficient.  During the winter,
there was no supply of fresh fruit for those living where it
freezes.  They lived mostly on meat and later, on what grain they
could store.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard)
Subject: Re: Starting an alternative medicine newsgroup
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:49:58 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <16754@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <BvEv2z.Fx2@cmptrc.lonestar.org> neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) writes:
>>
>>Since the discussions of medicine and health care can get so diversified
>>so quickly, wouldn't it make sense to make "med" a category of its own?
>>i.e. "med.cardiology", "med.orthopedics", "med.home-remedies", "med.voodoo",
>>"med.general", "med.politics",  "med.sci", "med.NOT", etc. What do y'all
>>think?
>
>That would require major surgery to the net structure, I think, and
>so is not feasable.  Also, what if one speciality has no representive
>on the net?  Quacks could reign there with no counter.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	      Good point.

Ok everybody, forget my post on the "med" category.
Neal
--

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Organization: WP Group
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:16:02 GMT

In article <BvEq4L.3H@wpg.com. russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
rl> Is there any reason why any licensed doctor would lie?   Questions
rl> involving quackery cannot be resolved by pitting one person's
rl> credentials against those of another.  

From article <16713@pitt.UUCP>, by km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum):
km> Hmm. I guess there is no difference in legal advice from a lawyer and
km> from the guy down the street or on the net. I should just be able to
km> choose from them based on their arguments.

All the quacks that I've investigated had credentials, Ken.   Rather
than pit one set of credentials against another, wouldn't it be
preferable to provide some pointers to the data?

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton)
Subject: Re: Genital Warts/Herpes
Organization: Kenton Systems Corporation, Weston MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:26:50 GMT

In article <BvGBtK.CF5@world.std.com> jkenton@world.std.com (Jeff Kenton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.140150.24252@cbnews.cb.att.com> ljy@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.j.young) writes:
>>
>>My boyfriend seems to have contracted genital warts.  And now that
>>those have been removed, he seems to think he may have herpes.  Of
>>course, he immediately thinks that I have given them both to him.
>>I have never had a problem--have been to my ob/gyn twice since then
>>and been examined specifically for those diseases and don't seem to
>>have them.
>>
>>Other than wanting some specific knowledge about both diseases, I
>>am wondering if I could have these diseases without knowing it.
>>My boyfriend insists on that.  I have checked with people I have been
>>intimate with in the past, and they don't seem to have any problems.
>>
>>	. . .
>>
>>I wonder if a relationship can survive this type of strain...
>>
>
>He had the warts, and he may have herpes.  You appear to have
>neither.  Why are you letting him blame you for the problems?
>


One further thought.  Suppose you discover that you do have
warts or herpes.  Why let him assume that you were the one
who had them first and gave them to him.  Seems unfair to me.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
=			Jeff Kenton	(617) 894-4508			=
=			    jkenton@world.std.com			=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ac10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alison Rebecca Colman)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: balance disorders
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:43:01 GMT
Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hello,

I have a few simple questions. One, do balance disorders exist? If so,
what are they technically called, and what (in general) causes them? I
am nether a med student, nor particularly scientificically inclined;
just some basic information will suffice. Thank you very much in advance
for any replies -- my address is: ac10@andrew.cmu.edu.

Cheers,
Alison Colman
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Coal Miner Health Benefits Law Nears Final Approval
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:05:43 GMT
Organization: NDA


Here is a press release from the United Mine Workers of America.

 Coal Miner Health Benefits Law Nears Final Approval
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Jim Grossfeld of the United Mine Workers of America,
          202-842-7240

   WASHINGTON, Oct. 6 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The president of the United
Mine Workers of America (UMWA) praised congressional leaders today
after the U.S. House of Representatives approved a national energy
plan yesterday that protects health care benefits for more than
200,000 retired coal miners.
   UMWA President Richard Trumka said that the U.S. House's approval
of a conference committee report on the proposed national energy bill
"means we're rounding third and heading for home" in winning
permanent protection for the medical benefits of retired coal miners.
   The legislation, which addresses a wide range of energy policies,
was amended to allow the refinancing of the ailing UMWA Health and
Retirement Funds.  The funds, an employer-paid medical benefits
program, has been crippled by record deficits.
   Under terms of an agreement reached this summer between Sen. Jay
Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) and White House officials, the national energy
plan approved by the House today includes a provision requiring
companies who had once paid into the health benefit program to
contribute once again.  The plan also provides that a portion of the
revenues generated under the federal Abandoned Mine Lands Reclamation
Act be used to help the health care funds and that surplus pension
fund assets also be applied to easing the health program's deficit.
   "The action by the House sends this plan to the Senate where we're
confident of final approval," said Trumka, who said Senate action may
come as soon as Thursday.
   "Two people who deserve much of the credit for winning House
support of this measure are Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and Rep. Nick
Rahall (D-W.Va.).  Both of them have been real champions for retired
coal miners and they've earned the respect and heartfelt thanks of
every coal field family," Trumka added.
   Trumka said passage of legislation protecting health care benefits
for retired coal miners has been the UMWA's top legislative priority.
 -30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Pap smear results
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:12:02 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Sep23.214925.13747@nosc.mil> derion@VAX309.NOSC.MIL writes:

>Before you panic or get treated, I'd suggest getting a second and
>even third smear done-- by another doctor/lab.  Yours could, I say
>COULD, be a false positive.  I have had a number of medical problems

This is outside my specialty, but I think the Pap smear is a screening
test.  Those who screen positive should not assume the worst but
get a confirmatory test, which is not another Pap, but another more
exacting test called colposcopy.  If her doctor is on the ball, I'm
sure she has been called in by now for it.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Organization: WP Group
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:57:56 GMT

In article <BvB0ww.9Mv@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>>In other words, they'll learn that it's wrong because you say it 
>>is.   Are your pronouncements a reasonable substitute for verifiable
>>information?

From article <16665@pitt.UUCP>, by km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum):
> Look. When I go to an attourney, I ask for information and advice,
> not references or arguments. When most people go to a doctor, they
> ask for the same things. Is there any particular reason why you
> would think that doctors on the net would obviously lie to people,
> or speak on things they are not informed on?

Is there any reason why any licensed doctor would lie?   Questions
involving quackery cannot be resolved by pitting one person's
credentials against those of another.  


-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kattan@Rosie.UH.EDU (Mike Kattan)
Subject: Re: Ocular Migraines
Reply-To: kattan@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:09:42 GMT

In article <16762@pitt.UUCP>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.230434.24678@menudo.uh.edu> kattan@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>>I remember a few people (several months ago) talking about their ocular
>>migraines.  Could someone who has had them or knows about them tell me what
>>they're like?  I think I have had a couple lately.  
>>
>
>Not a good term, ocular migraines.  There are 4 types of migraines
>you might be talking about.  In order of commonality:
>
>1) Migraines with scotomas.  The most frequent type are "scintillating"
>or shimmering lights.  There may be zig-zag lines, a blind spot, arcs, or
>colored spots (or just about anything else under the sun.)

It's this one.  It looks like a few lines that creep into my field of vision. 
Over about 15 minutes, the lines grow longer and then disappear.  I can't realy
see through the lines.  They are sort of like flashing lights or maybe water
waves.  The pattern follows my focal point wherever I look.  I've had 3
occurrences, with about four months between each occurrence.  If I relax, it
seems to speed up recovery.

I suppose I should really get this checked out to make sure it's not something
really bad and hopefully catch it early if it is.

___________________________________________________________________________
Mike Kattan                       | Internet: kattan@jetson.uh.edu         
Decision and Information Sciences | Bitnet:   kattan@uhupvm1  kattan@jetson
University of Houston             | Phone:    (713) 743-4734  
Houston, TX  77204-6282           | Fax:            743-4693
===========================================================================
From: minsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Excess Of Vitamin C?
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:31:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct1.213148.23661
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <BvEIG7.KE4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <16642@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>>In article <4283.466.uupcb@wugate.wustl.edu> carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) writes:
>
>>When Pauling's book on vitamin C came out, he recommended 1 gram
>>per day.  After they did studies with 1 gram per day showing no
>
>Evolved or devolved?  I recall an article on vitamin C in those animals
>which make their own, of which the higher primates are among the few
>exceptions.  One of the statements in that article was that rats produce
>an amount of vitamin C corresponding to 50 grams/day in humans.  
>
>Our distant ancestors managed to survive without the ability to make
>this simple substance out of glucose.  But how much is desirable for
>various purposes, other than a few obvious deficiency diseases, is 
>far from clear.  The "optimal" amount to take may depend on circumstances;
>studies not based on the mere cure of disease are needed.

Yes, we need to know more.  An interesting caveat: someone told me (I
forget who) that people who took >10 grams of C per day were at risk
of contracting scurvy if they discontinued suddenly.  The claim was
that some symptoms, e.g., bleeding gums, could appear within a day or
two. The idea is plausible, because there are other examples in which
other reagents or receptors, etc., become less numerous or less
sensitive when the substrate concentration is increased. 

Anyone else hears such a thing, or is it an elegant myth?  (It is
possible that I simply made it up.  I do that a lot, in order to try
to improve my capacity for linear thinking.)
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: low thyroid levels, but not hypothyroid
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:10:12 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <BONNIE.92Oct1102143@aigyptos.nmsu.edu> bonnie@nmsu.edu
 (Bonnie Hargrave) writes:
>David,
>Speaking just as a patient, wouldn't it better just to take regular
>thryoid tests and monitor the patient's condition instead of giving
>them pills which, as I understand it, may influence the working of
>their thyroid in the future?  I had thought that once the body starts
>receiving thyroxin supplement that there is some danger it will depend
>upon that supplementation and make even less thyroid hormone than it
>did previous to supplementation/medication.

I wasn't necessarily arguing in favor of this method of dealing with
a high TSH -- I actually will tend to follow labs regularly in 
people that I think are reliable about returning, but in some people
that I am very worried about losing to follow up, I may start them
on Levothyroxine.

I don't know of any evidence that thyroid supplementation leads to
dependence.  The thyroid gland can rebound very quickly if the
medication is stopped (this is very different from another gland
under pituitary control, the adrenal, which atrophies with administration
of corticosteroids and recovers very slowly).
-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
From: rgering@world.std.com (Rebecca J Gering)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Aspirin for Prevention of PIH
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:27:24 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

I would like to find out more about the use of one baby aspirin per
day to prevent pregnancy induced hypertension in women who have prior
history of pih.  I don't have easy access to a medical library and am
not familiar with "medline searches", so any pointers or information
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Becky Gering (rgering@world.std.com)
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Lance Sanders)
Subject: Re: Vitamins and the FDA (Pt. 1 of 3): Viewpoint
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:17:15 GMT
Organization: EnviraForm


On 1 Oct 92 15:24:48 GMT, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:

>What does "high-quality" mean and how did these mainstream studies
>control for quality?  I'm not aware of any such mainstream data.

>I am aware of no evidence that radiation introduces any trace 
>carcinogens or benzene or that it reduces the vitamin content of food.


   Gordon, did you read Pts. 2 (Vitamin Research) and 3 (Food Degredation) 
before responding? 

---------
Lance Sanders
starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM
GE Mail: L.Sanders6
Vox: (312) 667-5958
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Doctors' credentials
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:59:07 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct01.135400.48585@uvmark.uucp> susan@uvmark.uucp (Susan Todhunter - (JWT)) writes:
>In article <16662@pitt.UUCP> km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep28.204251.27190@uvmark.uucp> susan@uvmark.uucp (Susan Todhunter - (JWT)) writes:
>>
>>>What is a "problem patient"?
>>
>>See sci.med for examples.
>>
>
>Yes, that was funny.
>But do you also mean that those who ask medical questions are "problems"?

Nope. If you think I answer questions on the net, bear in mind this
forum represents a small percentage of where I spend my time every
day. As Chief of Medicine at a chronic care VA hospital, I spend hours
every day talking with patients, family, and staff and answer lots of
questions. 

Questions don't bother me. People with pre-conceived (negative) notions
about how I will act, what I must be hiding from them, what tests I
must order regardless of my own appraisal of a situation, what the
diagnosis must be, how bad the VA is, how rich I am, etc. etc. DO
bother me. Gordon summed it up well, with the women who was going to
get a CT scan or MRI regardless of what he thought. Problem patients
are "Aunt Minis": you may not know how to describe Aunt Mini, but you
sure know her when you see her.

 -km
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: women in science
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:00:38 EDT
 <viking.717836309@vincent2.iastate.edu> <1992Sep30.151732.5800@news.columbia.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu's message of Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:17:32 GMTLines: 18

In <1992Sep30.151732.5800@news.columbia.edu> stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu writes:

> How do the gaps become more understandable?  If you're suggesting that
> women are more represented the softer the science, I'd point out that
> medical and biology have a HIGHER % of women than social science.
> 
> It would make it easier to talk about if the fields really could be
> divided according to their hardness, sort of a Moh scale of science,

there is an extremely funny article in (i think) SCIENCE AND FEMINISM, ed. Ruth
Bleier (1986?), which "deconstructs" the language of "Hardness" & "Softness"
w.r.t. science, where "hardness" is equated w. "masculinity" & "softness" w.
"femininity".  it creates rather interesting visual imagery w.r.t. this
"hard"/"soft" discussion...

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA