From: rw@HPLB.HPL.HP.COM (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: The Chinese Community
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:02:31 GMT

>> me
> Dwight

>>*You're* the one who's lumping all Chinese responding to you into the same
>>"Chinese-cu" category, accusing them of crimes against humanity!  For
>>Christ's sake, Dwight, these people are from *Singapore*, not *China*!
>>What do the 228 Incident, the occupation of Tibet, the Great Leap Forward,
>>the Cultural Revolution, or Tiananmen Square have to do with them??!!
>
>As soon as a person, not from China, calls himself Chinese, then
>he should be lumped with the Chinese-cu.

Although the Singaporean Chinese are ethnically Chinese, they are not
*interchangeable* with people from China or Taiwan.  It is irrational
for you to treat them as though they were.  In particular, it is
irrational for you to attack them for the Chinese crimes against humanity
listed above, or for China's participation in the Korean War.

In fact, it may be the "Chinese-cu" paradigm -- which is itself only a
slightly modified version of the "Chinese ethnicity = Chinese culture"
paradigm that you dislike so much -- that is causing the confusion.
This paradigm only distinguishes between fully assimilated Chinese-Americans
and "all other Chinese"; it assumes that any Chinese who have not assimilated
into another culture can be lumped together and treated interchangeably.
This isn't true.

For example, the Chinese culture in Singapore is radically different
from the Chinese culture in mainland China.  It's heavily influenced
by the West, and by the Malay and Indian populations.  It's an exclusively
urban culture, unlike China, which is predominantly rural.  The economic
and political systems are completely different.  Singapore's been run by
Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP, who are paternalistic but highly competent,
rather than Mao Zedong (who tried to eradicate traditional Chinese culture)
and then Deng Xiaoping.

In a similar way, we can identify distinct forms of Chinese culture in the
following places:

  o mainland China
  o southeast Asia, including Singapore, Malaysia, etc.
  o Taiwan (run by the KMT, American-backed)
  o Hong Kong (run by the British, largely Cantonese)
  o North America (much smaller communities, greater assimilation)

as well as other places (Australia, Africa, Europe, South America).

I think it's important to distinguish between them when discussing
Chinese culture.  They've diverged and changed considerably just
during the last 40 years.

Dwight, if you respond to this by saying "but they're basically all
the same", I'll ... I'll ... I don't know what I'll do.  Give up,
probably, and go over to the dating thread. :-)

>(Note that the Chinese on Singapore call themselves Chinese.
>Until such time that they say, "I'm Singaporean.  I'm not Chinese."
>or until such time as they have the same attitudes of nth generation
>Asian-Americans--i.e. "I'm American.  I'm not Asian", those Chinese
>on Singapore should be lumped with the group that they want to be
>part of.)

They consider themselves Singaporean Chinese.  This is similar to
my being a Chinese-Canadian.  We share some things in common with
the Chinese community as a whole (e.g. ethnicity, some cultural aspects),
but we also belong to other communities (the Singaporean nation, the
Canadian nation) which are distinct, and have separate histories and
cultures.

>(And if what the Chinese did during the Korean War is not backstabbing
>America, then what the hell is?)

Uh, Dwight.  The Americans were backing Chiang and the Nationalists
against Mao and the Communists.  The "Chinese" who participated in
the Korean War were the Communists, of course.  Again, you're trying
to simplify things too much by considering "the Chinese" as a single
indivisible entity.

You've also been trying very hard to disassociate yourself from the
Chinese people.  I respect your right to do that, but please try not
to attack Chinese people indiscriminately, the way you've been doing
in this last thread.  We're no less human than anyone else, and deserve
no less respect than anyone else.

Best regards,
Russil
(second-generation Chinese-Canadian; parents from Singapore and Malaysia)
--
Russil Wvong
russil@idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Not an official statement of HP.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american