From: dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan)
Subject: Re: Gurps Supers is still broken : was Re: Best Super system
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:09:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.163952.17673@sco.COM> paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson) writes:
|There are lots of non abusive characters that (in Champions terms) really
|need a multipower to work. A Hawkeye (Green Arrow) clone springs to mind.

	Such characters aren't built on points.  Their trick gadgets are
usually within the realm of plausability, so they just buy Gadgeteer and the
necessary skills and build them.

|That is precisely the problem. I just didn't want to run a campaign where
|most characters wore battle suits. Also, if the technology extends to good

	No one is wearing battle suits; the only mass-producable powered armor
is all Mandroid sized and costs a zillion dollars.  You could run an Iron
Man type as a Gadgeteer, of course.

|armour then it also extends to weapons capable of blasting through it. What
|is the use of being able to throw laser blasts that are, essentially, less
|powerful than military lasers?

	Real simple answer:  try GETTING a military laser.  They're Legality
Class 0, which in your average Control Rating 3 or 4 society translates into
"shoot first and ask questions later".  You can't go walking down the street
with a rifle of any kind (even in my world, which has Dodge City-level
weapons restrictions).  The kind of concealable weapons available to a TL/7
or 8 character (my campaign is basically the latter) aren't going to stack
up to offensive superpowers.  Gyrocs are an exception, since gyroc pistols
shoot the same ammo as the rifles, but you still can't get APEX for them if
you're a civilian.  (CHEM rounds are more dangerous, anyway.)  Even if you
have a concealable weapon, you can't carry it into a secure area.  Since I
don't have any magical "mutant scanners" in the campaign, superpowered
covert ops have a HUGE advantage in that no one will know that they aren't
unarmed until it's too late.

	I would further point out that you're talking about the least effective
type of super -- the "Blaster".  The only advantage a Blaster has over a
normal is that his weapon is totally concealable and can't be taken away.
Telekinesis, on the other hand, is much more useful.  Ditto for other esper
abilities, transformative powers, electrical abilities that can affect
technology, etc.  A lot of character types that are overshadowed in the
standard four-color affairs are more viable when using a more realistic
approach.

|I feel that it is a significant limitation of the system that various
|"normal" comics character conceptions are essentially unplayable. The comics
|are full of martial artists without any armour.

	The comics are stupid.  There's no reason why, in the comics, no one
ever lobs a grenade at any of those fools and blows them to bits...other
than the fact that the writers don't want it to happen.  If I wanted to
"simulate" a comic book, I'd use TOON.

|I think that we're actually in very close agreement. GURPS as written only
|works for a few specific campaign types. One is the one that you seem to be
|running where the players are essentially all Super Agents and wander around
|with a great deal of their capability coming from generally available
|technology. Unfortunately, you just cannot use the rules to produce all
|sorts of "typical" comic campaigns.

	I'd question whether or not a ST 80/DR 30 reptile man is a "super
agent", even if he does carry an ARL.  Ditto for a cyborg with similar
stats, or an esper cyberpunk with his power group at level 16.  Even the
characters that DO carry a ton of equipment around have superpowers.  I've
got four PC's cast in the Batman mold, more or less, but two of them have
chi-based superpowers, one's a Nightbreed and the fourth has "darkforce"
powers (a la Marvel Comics).  Even if you carry a gun and wear armor, you're
head and shoulders over the norms if you regenerate in seconds and can't be
seen by mechanical sensors, or if you can walk through walls, or if you can
"cloud the minds of men" so they don't see you.

	I don't see the point in looking for a complex rule system to simulate
something as chaotic as a comic book.  The genre requires limiting the
player's freedom of action, which I consider to be intolerable in an RPG.

|
|To give a precise example, I'm running a pre WWII superhero/espionage/horror
|campaign. Not quite a four colour campaign but definitely one with leanings
|in that direction. The characters are generally trying to be sureptitious in
|their actions (they're neither running around in long underwear nor in power
|suits). The characters were all meant to be significantly powerful but NOT
|overwhelming. It just didn't work under GURPS rules. I basically found it
|impossible to make the opponents powerful enough to threaten the group
|without making them powerful enough to destroy the group (the opponents were
|VERY knowlegeable sorts).

	I don't see what the problem could be.  I could run that in my sleep.


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