HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson)
Subject: Re: Shabbat in Cambridge
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:06:12 GMT


In article <4179@bimacs.BITNET>, rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep13.210735.16547@cs.yale.edu> engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
|> >
|> >
|> >I'm going to be in Cambridge right after Succot (Oct. 23-25) for a AAAI Fall
|>                     ^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> Do you mean Cambridge, Massecheutets (sp) or Cambridge, England? :-)

Oh, right.  I meant the real Cambridge.  Massachusetts, that is... :-)

	-Shlomo-
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: richf@comet.base.bellcore.com (Rich Farenci)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Reply-To: richf@cosmos.bellcore.com
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 17:22:19 GMT

In article <matthew.716040926@munna>, matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
|> richf@comet.base.bellcore.com (Rich Farenci) writes:
|> 
|> >the claim that anti semitism was primarily the product of right wingers 
|> >and ultra nationalists shows very little understanding of polish attitudes
|> >during wwii. it is sad to note that even in the accounts of the 
|>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >"righteous gentiles" who saved many jewish lives, the primary motivation
|>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >in the overwhelming majority of cases was economic and not moral, and that
|>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >it was only by living with jews that their polish protectors could even
|> >begin to overcome their deeply held prejudices which often were a part of
|> >their education.
|> 
|> >rich farenci
|> 
|> How do you figure this out? How did they benefit economically? How
|> large was the expected gain, so that these "righteous gentiles" would
|> risk their own life and the lives of the rest of their family?
|> 
|> 
|> MB

there are numerous accounts by jewish survivors documenting how they were
saved by hiding with polish families, in nearly all of these cases the
protection was bought with whatever money and valuables the jews could
provide. nechamah tec writes of her own personal experience in her book
"dry tears", and of other survivors in "when light pierced the darkness".


rich farenci

From: rogerp@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Roger Pollard)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:58:21 GMT
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish


In article 2509@israel.nysernet.org, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
    ... <stuff deleted> ...
    >
    >Likewise, there are two minhagim about what people whose parents are
    >alive do during Yizkor.  In some shuls they walk out and in others
    >they don't.

There is an interesting opinion on this issue from (if I remember correctly)
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein z"l  who said that those whose parents are alive should
leave during Yizkor and that it was incorrect to remain (whether standing,
sitting, talking, or w.h.y). The reason is that Yizkor is recited on a 
YomTov and the recitation takes away from the joy of the festival - the
only way that those whose parents are deceased can do this is if all those
who have no cause to recite Yizkor leave for the duration. It is therefore
not proper for those who do not say Yizkor to stay, even if they (misguidedly)
believe they are doing so out of respect for others.

Shalom.

Roger  (normally  roger@ee.leeds.ac.uk  where I cann't read this group!)

===================================================================
Roger Pollard         4US-Q        Santa Rosa Systems Division
                                   Hewlett-Packard Company
phone: (+1 707) 577-4207           1400 Fountaingrove Parkway
e-mail: rogerp@sr.hp.com           Santa Rosa,  CA 95403-1799, USA
===================================================================
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Stuttgart Bible
Date: 12 Sep 1992 19:24:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu

In article <ALEX.92Sep12121310@opal.idbsu.edu> alex@opal.idbsu.edu (Alex Feldman) writes:
>What is the "Stuttgart Bible"?  I saw an advertising blurb for
>Zondervan which described it as the "modern  hebrew text", which
>sounded pretty weird.

	Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensia (BHS) is an edition of the Bible
published sometime in the first half of this century and revised and
computerized in the last few decades which is based on the Leningrad Codex.
This codex ("codex" just means it opens like a book, not like a scroll) is
the oldest complete, dated manuscript known.  My impression based on some
reading in the subject is that the editors of the BHS considered this
codex to be somehow more accurate than the so-called Masoretic text, which
is simply the text as it has been handed down among Jews.  Unfortunately
for the BHS, the Masoretic texts used by different communities differ from
each other in only a few places, while the BHS differs from all of them in
dozens of places.  So the phrase "modern Hebrew text" means "the text we
modern scholars are into." 
	If you don't care about the user interface, it is possible to get
an online copy of the BHS for free.  Email me for details.

						Dan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15421 soc.culture.polish:2393
From: lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:58:50 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <matthew.714799451@mugga> matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Matthew Zalbiciewski) writes:
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>Dear Mr. Sufrin:

>>I am aware of the complaint by the Canadian Polish Congress concerning
>>the Toronto Star's use of appropriate wording to describe Nazi German
>>concentration camps in German-occupied Poland.  I fully support the
>>Toronto Star in this issue.  References to camps of unspecified origin
>>and simply said to be located in Poland are factually accurate but
>>deeply offensive to Poles trying to minimize their own participation in
>>antisemitic atrocities before, during, and after World War II.  I
>>believe that news stories should be clear on this point.


>>-- 
>>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com

 I beg your pardon? Is the wording "Polish concentration camps"
apropriate, you say? In that case we have to rewrite not only
history but also dictionaries. The word "Polish" refers not just
to geography but also to language, people, etc. Just look 
to any dictionary you have.

 Yes, please do investigate everything in detail and document
everything very carefully. This is the only way we can finally
agree who was guilty and of what. Yes, studies on the extent of antisemitism
in Poland should be conducted in detail. I am sure there are many
studies already but more should be done.

 Go ahead, Sam, let me know the full extent of the Polish
participation in the genocide during WW II.  

>That's it! Give'em what they deserve. And maybe, just maybe, in a few
>decades history will have changed.
 
 Lech Borkowski
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conservative Halacha (was re: Orthodox Monopoly)
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:29:48
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Sep8.223245.24953@cbnews.cb.att.com>
	<18m4nfINN4ik@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu's message of 10 Sep 92 00:26:23 GMT

On 10 Sep 92 00:26:23 GMT, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz) said:
> So here's my question for all you Conservative types out there: in what
> areas of halachah is the official Conservative position more machmer than
> even the most liberal Orthodox position?

Well, I can't answer for Conservative, but the Patrilineal Descent decision
(if followed as written) is such a decision in Reform. Even the strictest
Orthodox person would accept a child of a mixed-marriage between a Jewish
mother and a non-Jewish father as Jewish, regardless of how the child is
raised or identifies with his/her religion. Reform only presumes the child to
be Jewish; actual "Jewish" status depends on appropriate public identification
and acts, such as Bar/Bat Mitzvah, Confirmation, etc. This is stricter than
the Orthodox position.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
   "You can't be a rationalist in an irrational world. It isn't rational!"
	       Dr. Rance, in Joe Orton's "What the Butler Saw"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: L'Chaim 2 of 8 (seeing vs. hearing)
Keywords: Halacha, Justice, Videotape, Rodney King 
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:33:24 GMT

In article mB0gqB2w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu, murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu () writes:
... <stuff deleted>...
 
>   Behold:  Seeing implies  the establishment  of a  deep and  powerful
>connection. Thus our Sages  state, "hearing does not  resemble seeing,"
>and they forbid an eyewitness from  acting as a judge. Once someone has
>seen  a  misdeed committed,  he will  never be  able  to conceive  of a
>redeeming  virtue for a  defendant. In contrast, when  a person is told
>about an  event, he  is allowed  to serve  as a  judge and  indeed, all
>trials depend on listening to such testimony.

... <more deleted> ...
 
>Adapted from a talk of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
> 
>---
> *Origin: L'Chaim BBS - KESHERnet NYC node2 (718-756-7201) (1:278/610) 
---
This is really interesting - instead of a distinction between first-hand
information (seeing it happen) and second-hand (being told about it), 
the Sages see a distinction between seeing and hearing.

In this case, it makes no practical difference - but what if a judge was
made to *see* something - even second hand??  Would he then be considered
partial, and therefore removed from judgement?

This couldn't have happened in Talmudic times - but today, what about
videotape???

We've all seen in the Rodney King case, with judges and juries struggling
with fairness and justice after *seeing* the event - it certainly made
it more difficult to understand the actions of the police after *seeing*
the violence - instead of simply being told about it.



							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 4 Sep 92 06:02:29 GMT

I agree that superstition is not a good thing.  But how do we
distinguish it from the minhagim-of-our-holy-ancestors-who-if-they-
are-like-angels-we-are-men-and-if-they-are-like-men-we-are-donkeys?

Seriously, who is to say which minhagim are valid and which are based
on superstition?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire universe		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter theft.
 |warren@      But the okra
/ nysernet.org is paranoid.
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue Financing
Date: 15 Sep 1992 20:42:26 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

In article <4194@rebecca-lillian.bbn.com> wwalker@bbn.com (Ward Walker) writes:
->
->This is an extremely serious issue, in my opinion.  Although in theory
->people who can't affort the dues are readily extended membership with
->reduced charges, in reality many people don't want to ask for a
->special arrangement and stay away.  I know; I'm a membership chairman.
->I regularly have to urge and beg people in financial straights to call
->the President for a dues break rather than just dropping out of the
->temple.

For the past three years I did not join the local shul because the costs
were too high, so I am a prime example.  This year the shul changed the
membership fee to be a sliding scale based on income, and I, as a grad
student making less than $14,000 a year, pay $52.  Those who do not wish
to disclose their incomes may just pay the maximum dues, which aren't all
that unreasonable.

Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 02:33:22 GMT

In article <matthew.715668630@munna> matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
>As far as I know, between the two world wars the Jewish population in
>Poland markedly increased.

And what do you conclude from this, other than that the Jews were not
being starved to death or forcibly inhibited from family life in large
numbers? 

--Mark
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: More mitzvos?
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:10:22 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)

In article <1992Sep10.181538.13211@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz (David Charlap) writes:
>Third, I never said the Chassidim do more than 613.  But they do more
>than any other group of people do.  At least as far as I've been able
>to see.

Then you've obviously not looked around very much.  Your assertion that
Chassidim do more mitzvos than Aryk Nusbacher--with or without the prob-
ably--was insulting and uncalled for.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re:  Not a Charm?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 15:59:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.035846.5722@cs.tulane.edu> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:
>
>The letters on the outside of the mezuzzah, Shin, Dalet, Yud are one
>of the names of G-d.

Is this really a name of G-d?   Or is it kEl Shadai?

Is Elyon (by itself ) also a name of G-d? [ When applied to angels,
it is malachay elyon. ]
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Orthodox Monopoly (was can of worms...)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:41:28 GMT

In article <199209070921.AA13375@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
   [deleted]
 How disappointing. Here I was, all set to read about "You have come in
 second in the Queen Esther contest," and "Go to Cherem, go directly to
 Cherem," only to find something competely different.

 Joel "advance to Ibn G'virol" Goldberg.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: On the SUPERIOR Role of Women
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 4 Sep 92 06:23:57 GMT

In <ALLEN.92Sep3094542@golem.ssc.gov> allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen) writes:
>it is patently false to make that blanket statement that traditional
>Judaism put women down.  For more information, the book "To Be a
>Jewish Woman", by Lisa Aiken, Ph.D, pub. by Ahronson (sp?).

I'd like to recommend a book which discusses traditional views of
women: "Jewish Women in Time and Torah", Eliezer Berkovits, Ktav 1990,
ISBN 0-88125-311-1.  It neither maintains that the traditional view is
just fine, nor does it entirely reject tradition.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very strange theft.
 |warren@      But the ***
/ nysernet.org is worried.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:47:25 GMT

In <1992Sep14.173436.9364@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>Today, kids spend a year or more preparing the entire Torah reading,
>even though most will never use the skill again.  IMHO, it's an
>ostentatious waste of everyone's time.

I don't know, I think it's useful to have everyone know how to read.
Although I never was all that good at it, I've filled in on a number
of occasions where the regular baal koreh was away.  I'll still read
at Mincha on Shabbat if the baal koreh doesn't show up and it's one
that I once did.

>A better idea would be for the kid (boy or girl) to complete a section
>of mishnayot, and make a siyum (completing the study of a section --
>creating a true se'udat mitzvah.  (And a darn sight more reasonable
>than a kid reading a rebbe-written dvar Torah: "The Yerushalmi on this
>says ...", as if the kid happened to come across a yerushalmi before
>breakfast!)

Yes, I certainly wish that I had possessed the integrety to write my
own d'var torah, which maybe could have meant something to the guests,
instead of a very long discourse on "mitzvot tzrichot kavannah?" (and
Torah study isn't a mitzvah?).  At least the Rabbi who wrote it for me
went over with me all the sugyot that his speech referred to so I had
some idea of what it was about.  Well no one got up afterwards and
gave me smicha :)
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hal@wanda.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Harold A. Miller)
Subject: fostering refugee children
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:35:52 GMT

Some time back there was some discussion about whether refugee children
(discussion on Yugoslavia mostly) were going to be relocated to new
families around the globe.  I have been unable to keep up with news since
then, and may have missed any further discussion.

It seems that many have made their way to Israel.  As my family (here in
Australia) has just completed a fostering arrangement, and we are interested
in beginning again (adoption/long-term-fostering), I thought I'd ask whether
anyone is aware of agencies that might be dealing with this area.  Local-to-
here, we are covered.  I'm curious about international kids, particularly if
Jewish, and needs for families to cover them.

Any tips would be appreciated.
HM
--
|Hal.Miller@mel.dit.CSIRO.AU              |  Facilities and Network Manager |
|CSIRO Division of Information Technology |  Facilities Management Project  |
|723 Swanston Street                      |  (TEL) +61 3 282 2628           |
|Carlton, VIC 3053, Australia             |  (FAX) +61 3 282 2600           |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: On the SUPERIOR Role of Women
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:22:22 GMT


Michael Shimshoni wrote:
>>>                        Any woman, also every  child bearing *gentile*
>>>woman, is closer to God's acts than not just Moses, the Ba'al Shem Tov
>>>but even  lehavdil the  present Lubavicher Rebbe  and the  Mashiah (in
>>>case this is  not a repetition of a previously  mentioned person), all
>>>just males and thus further from God.
>>>

And David Kaufman replied:
>>Ignoring Michael's uncharacteristic rancor: one does not say
>>"lehavdil" about Jews. Whatever one's level of observance, the
>>commonality of being Jewish transcends differences.
>

Then Michael said:
>Ignoring the  partial compliment  David pays me,  I wonder  from where
>David got to state that one does  not say lehavdil about Jews (BTW let
>it be the worst of my sins...).   If I have not missed anything on the
>news  the  Lubavicher   Rebbe  is  still  alive   (till  120!),  while
>unfortunately  the Ba'al  Shem  Tov is  not.  I  once  learned to  say
>lehavdil when  one mentions  a living  person after  a person  who had
>died.  Am I wrong EVEN ON THAT?

What was uncharacteristic was not Michael's rancor (there wasn't any),
but his typo error.  Lehavdil used used to distingish sacred from profane,
as in "The Torah says X, but Shulamit Aloni, lehavdil, says Y."  Lehavdil
means, in effect, "there's no comparison."

Michael meant to say "yibadel l'chaim" (roughly, be distinguished for
life").  The phrase is commonly used when referring to two individuals,
one of which remains alive.  As in "the Ba'al Shem Tov and, yebadel
l'chaim, the Lubavitcher Rebbe."

Over the years, I have come to suspect Michael of many things, but never
rancor, sin'at chinam, or unnecessary nastiness.  (Of course, I also 
never suspected he would make such a typographical error!)


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 19:42:50 GMT

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

>In <1992Sep3.125345.23275@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> weiner@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Merril Weiner) writes:

>>It might arise from the minhag of not saying Kaddish when both of
>>your parents are living (sounds more like superstition than minhag).

>I've always wanted to know how to distinguish between Torah and
>superstition.  "al tiftach peh lasatan" appears in the Midrash.

   Could you please clarify the question? I do not see the connection
between the two parts of your last paragraph ... unless you hesitate
between Torah and superstition when asking HaShem to open our hearts 
or our eyes! Indeed our Sages have taught us a lot about how "fine" a mouth
can do to produce evil, and it's SO easier to open that just a tiny 
microbit of heart, you know, just the size of a needle thread hole.
   Y-G
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: More mitzvos?
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:17:56 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)

In article <9209111601.AA18699@ptms_dev.sbi.com>, gertler@ptms_dev (User - Don Gertler) writes:
>But doing MORE mitzvot than any other group is way out of line.  What
>about the non-Chassidic Charedim, for example?  (I'm going on the
>assumption that the so-called Ultra-Orthodox are the most prolific
>mitzva performers, which itself may be quite invalid.)

It's not a question of "more", but of "fence height", that distinguishes
strictness from leniency.  About the only way you can claim "more" would
be in particular or unusual cases: the priestly blessing, issuing a get,
chalitza, a Levite guarding the Temple Mount, chasing a mother bird away
before taking the eggs, Nazirite vow, martyrdom, cohanim blowing the silver
trumpets during times of danger, shechita and covering the blood, etc.

Most of these have a brocha even.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish