HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 10:51:26 GMT

--

In article <1992Dec15.175328.25642@philabs.philips.com>, dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons) writes:

|>I haven't heard anyone raise their voice in justification of
|>the creation of NI. Perhaps I missed it, but I suspect
|>one would be hard pressed to justify the forceful inclusion
|>of 3/4 million people into a statelet in which they were and are a 
|>planned minority. This was a blatent move into social manipulation
|>of the kind that supports ethnic cleansing. Under this situation
|>it takes a hell of a nerve to crow about majority rule. 

It wasn't a question of forcefully including the nationalist minority.
The island had been under British rule.  Ireland was gaining independence.
The unionists wanted to remain part of Britain.  They wanted the whole
island to remain under British rule.  The creation of Northern Ireland
was a compromise.   It was accepted by both governments although it
did lead to a Civil War here.  Everyone's hindsight vision is 20/20.
Forcing 1 million unionists into a United Ireland is simply not on.
There are no easy answers to the curreent problem.



       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Padraig Flynn to be EC Commissioner for Social Affairs
From: Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:00:09 EST
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

The subject says it all. It seems kind of ironic, really.

According to RTE, he will be one of the 4 Commissioners with direct
responsibility for the European Social Fund, (the one that paid a few
years of my colleg fees!) which should help Albert reach his #8 Billion
target.

Aengus
--
RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: Scots Wha Hae lyrics
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 13:50:02 EST

In article <CALUM.92Dec18150801@ivy.clu.cf.ac.uk> Calum Gordon <calum@clu.cf.ac.uk> writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.105419.23931@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>
>>  I don't know about sexist (come on, really?) but it doesn't make sense
>>  in English. 
>
>That's 'coz it's not written in English actually, but in the Auld
>Scots tongue of Burns' time.
>

Yeah, I know, I was being facetious. :-)

Chris

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8352 soc.culture.british:17886
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: UK unemployment figures
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:35:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <BzM0yH.1KH@dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
>It's typical that he sounds so triumphant, after all these years, because
>some people in the SE have finally had a taste of what everyone else has had
>to suffer for the last fifteen years or so. ie mass unemployment.
>
>What does he  expect us to do? Divert food collections for Bosnia  to poor
>neglected London? Gie's a break?
>
>As for The huge amounts of personal debt sufferd by those poor
>southerners. They voted in the party that fooled the stupid gits into
>thinking they'd all become Millionaires from buying their council houses
>in Docklands.
>
>I lived in Aberdeen once and house prices crashed there in the early
>eighties and many people were ruined. Londoners of course thought that
>would never happen to them beause they neither know nor care what
>happens elsewhere, stupid gits.
>
>Is that the type of reaction you were hoping for?
>
Yes, because I think it proves my point quite well. No matter
what the real figures are, there will still be northerners and
Scots who will continue operating under the belief that people
in south-east England are all rich privileged Tories.

I seem to recall that Morna is a Labour supporter, well if her
reaction is in any way typical of Labour, it shows very well
why Labour has nothing to offer the south. Tory divide-and-rule
tactics are clearly working well here - create the myth that
everything in the south is wonderful, tell it often enough and
people will believe it. When I suggest that all is not
wonderful in the south (and it is a line I have been pushing
since before Lawson's "blip"), instead of reacting by
suggesting that all those who are suffering from Tory misrule
get together to share their common interests southerners who
might be drawn to the anti-Tory bandwagon are pushed off with
"get away you stupid rich privileged southern gits". Then they
wonder why the bandwagon isn't making headway.

As it happens, many people who bought their houses in Docklands
are Labour supporters. None of the Docklands constituencies
returns Conservative MPs. Still, this doesn't matter, they're
all rich Tory southern gits to Morna.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:35:57 GMT

crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:


>Oh get off it! Whose monarchical family rules Britain? 
Germany's

>Where is 
>Parliament?
Ask the demonstrators in Edinburgh.
 
>Why were the Scots joining English trading firms in 
>the 16th-17th centuries? 
Probably because the Scottish government didn't feel the urge to give
out royal patents to deliver small-pox infested blankets to native
Canadians & Americans in return for furs. 

>Why did they emigrate to ENGLISH America?
Mostly to get as far away from the English as possible.

>Name me a single Scottish, Welsh or Irish colony in the New World 
>administered in the name of Scotland, Wales or Ireland! 
Nova Scotia (New Scotland)

>What language 
>is spoken in the halls of government in any of these places?  
English and French in Nova Scotia.  Gaelic is however, and was
the second most common language in Nova Scotia at one point in 
time (French being the first as Nova Scotia was Acadia).

>I 
>agree that Gaelic in Scotland is still spoken, but how many Scottish
>Parliamentarians spoke on Gaelic? 
How many french Canadian Parliamentarians speak French in the HOC. 
Some do, but not all.  Translators do a horrible job of conveying
emotions, which makes it difficult to communicate with someone who
doesn't speak your language.

>No one can possibly argue the
>dominance of England over the other three UK realms. 
I can and I will.  Who still has their own culture?  Do the English
maintain their own culture, or has it been polluted by invasions from
Rome, France (Normandy), etc?  Although the English did come to 
politically dominate the other three by force, it never managed to 
destroy the culture of these places, despite repeated attempts.
That is not dominance. 

>And to prove that I have yet to receive any "combined wrath" you
>speak of. 
Probably because most decided not to dignify your comments with a
response.

>Chris

Katherine Merle Mason
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8391 soc.culture.british:17965
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 22 Dec 1992 19:19:29 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <1992Dec21.173822.8195@newstand.syr.edu>, by crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea):
> 
> Oh get off it! Whose monarchical family rules Britain? Where is 

Hanover's you ignorant sod.

> Parliament? Why were the Scots joining English trading firms in 
> the 16th-17th centuries? Why did they emigrate to ENGLISH America?
                                                    ^^^^^^^
Under a SCOTTISH king, yet!

> Name me a single Scottish, Welsh or Irish colony in the New World 
> administered in the name of Scotland, Wales or Ireland! What language 

Iceland (before the Norse conquored them). That 1 more than was
administered in the name of England.  All of the colonies in the western
hemisphere were founded and administered in the name of the BRITISH
crown (with the SCOTTISH king, remember).

> is spoken in the halls of government in any of these places? I 

It is generally considered that the purest form of the English language
is lowlands Scots.

> agree that Gaelic in Scotland is still spoken, but how many Scottish
> Parliamentarians spoke on Gaelic? No one can possibly argue the
> dominance of England over the other three UK realms. 

Ah, yes.  England has dominated the Union, but nowhere near as
completely as you imagine.

> And to prove that I have yet to receive any "combined wrath" you
> speak of. 
> 
> Chris

Chris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 21:02:09 EST

In article <1ho23eINNbea@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>
>>Arthur has no place whatsoever in the royal bloodline. He was King of the       Britons--ie, Welsh leader against the Saxons. In real life his name was 
>>Artorius and was the commander of the Britons against the English. Much
>>of the rest is a fabrication of Malory and Tennyson.
>
>
>Nonetheless, Arthur is to be found in the royal genealogies. Egbert
>was the first person to whom the title King of England could apply.
>
>

Egbert I can accept, because he is was a King of the West Saxons and ancestor
of Alfred, the major Saxon king the genalogists look back to anyway. Bt
ARTHUR? No, he's way too mythical, and when they put him in there they 
might as well include Boudicca and Noah. :-)

Chris


>
>-- 
>Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
>She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu  


Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8430 soc.culture.british:18042 soc.culture.canada:9630 sci.lang:8526
From: urcat@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eilidh Swan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Gaelic-l press release
Date: 24 Dec 92 21:34:03 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic

In <sherlock.002z@sleuth.eskimo.com> sherlock@sleuth.eskimo.com (Jonathan Marsh) writes:

>    Having just started to scan this group, possibly you might post this again?
>Nothing came through save the announcement.
>    sherlock@sleuth.eskimo.com

Jonathan,

	I tried sending you a copy of the release, but my machine could
  not recognize any address called "sleuth.eskimo.com"  So, here it is.

Eilidh Swan
************************************************************************
Cat McGlothlin    urcat@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu   'urcat'='you-are-cat'   "Oh!"
                  eilidh@cs.ucsb.edu       -- Eilidh is Gaelic for Ellen
 The University never has, and never will, pay for or fund my opinions.


---------------forwarded message from soc.culture.celtic-----------------
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 04:54:35 EST

In article <1hlurmINNg8l@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>
>The Glorious Revolution was quite a bit more than a military
>coup-cum-invasion. It produced both a change in the ruling coalition
>(the Tories had been dominant from the Restoration until the
>Revolution) and in the relative power of King and Parliament. The
>Convention was in and of itself a revolutionary act, with
>extraordinarily revolutionary consequences, of which the
> succession of George I was one of the more significant (the
>disappearance of print censorship was another, as was the
>rehabilitation of many surviving Commonwealthsmen, Sir John Wildman
>being a notable example).

Yes, but the origins were a military coup, started by Churchill, and 
Parliament acted only when William's Blue Guards had captured (yup) 
London. When you examine the events of the times Parliament seems only
to be accepting a fait accompli.
There were certainly some interesting results of the Rev. William walked
a narrow line, in that he rehabilitated Puritans, but he also kept the 
imperial edifice erected by James II. Note that the power of the army 
had increased tremendously since 1640 (England now kept a standing army
of 110,000 and a fleet of 300 ships, as opposed to 10,000 and 50 ships).
William made an alliance with the Parliament and the results were the
constitutional changes you mentioned.

>
>The most important consequence was the acceptance, tacit but real,
>of the idea that the subject had a _right_ to revolt against
>tyrannical acts by the Crown. It is, after all, no coincidence that
>the _Two Treatises_ were published in London in 1689. (For more on
>this I recommend Richard Ashcraft's study of Locke's theory in the
>context of its times -- the rather cumbersome title of which escapes
>me at the moment).       
>____________________________________________________________________
Interesting thing about Locke--the father ofthe philosophies of the tabula 
rasa and the political contract also penned the most repressive royal
charter in American colonial history--South Carolina's, for James and
his secretary, Samuel Pepys. The only charter I know of that made serfdom
(yes, you read serfdom) a stated social position in the colony and which gave 
the landholders noble titles. 
I guess he tried to clear his name with the Two Treatises.

chris

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Dual Citizenship
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:44:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.162014.17224@cabell.vcu.edu> dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) writes:
>nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>
>>Last I heard it was no crime to have dual citizenship, especailly if one of
>>your parents was say Iris and one was American(US), you just have to age 21 to
>>decide weather your a Irish Citizen or a US Citizen..
>
>I wish I knew where this myth started; it's one you hear often. 

For those of you with a U.S. passport, open it up and read what it says
about dual citizenship.  It's definitely not illegal.  Some actions (such
as serving in the armed forces of another country) CAN jeopardize U.S.
citizenship; even so, many people with joint US/Israeli citizenship have
served in the Israeli armed forces without losing their U.S. citizenship. 
I have a feeling that the U.S. would draw the line if, for instance, a
US/Iraqi citizen served in the armed forces of Iraq.

Your passport warns you that if you are a dual citizen, you may find
yourself subject to military conscription (and other obligations) of the
other country when you are residing in the other country and suggests that
if you have problems, you should contact the US consulate in the other
country.

The US also will not allow you to use your dual citizenship to avoid
obligations to the US when residing in the US.

Details like this are always a bit complicated for dual citizens, but this
certainly doesn't make dual citizenship illegal.

Barbara Vaughan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: galpmn01@ngals011 (peter mcnally)
Subject: Re: Satellite view of Ireland
Reply-To: galpmn01@nt.com
Organization: Northern Telecom, Galway, Ireland.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:54:59 GMT


European satellite images are available at;

cumulus.met.ed.ac.uk

Here's the greeting....

  220-You are now connected to cumulus.met.ed.ac.uk at the Meteorology Department 
    of Edinburgh University, Scotland.
    
    This provides an anonymous ftp service for:
    
      1. images from the METEOSAT-4 and METEOSAT-3 satellites
      2. contributed software for Computer Aided Learning in Meteorology
    
   
-- 
Peter McNally		
Northern Telecom, Galway, Ireland   E-mail  galpmn01@nt.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8422 soc.culture.british:18022
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 23 Dec 1992 23:04:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec23.162938.20649@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>In article <ljeqi1INNf2@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>>From article <1992Dec21.173822.8195@newstand.syr.edu>, by crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea):
>>> 
>>> Oh get off it! Whose monarchical family rules Britain? Where is 
>>
>>Hanover's you ignorant sod.
>By that argument, so does France's, Wales', Scotland, Germany's...I could go
>on but that would be ridiculous, like your answer. The royal family of

This is simply wrong. France's royal families (there are three,
counting the Orleans line as separate)haven't had a throne to sit on
for over a century. Wales never had _a_ royal family (independent
Wales was never a united principality). The Scottish royal family is
extinct in the male line (though there is still, I think, a
Pretender). Germany's royal family has been out of the reigning
business since 1918.


>the United Kingdom sits atop a throne founded by Cedric of Wessex, if 
>you must know. Wessex is in southern England. 

Cedric is not a Saxon name. Would you by any chance mean Egbert?



-- 
____________________________________________________________________
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: sp@u36.kwnet.on.ca (Sean P Goggin)
Subject: London - Dublin, cheap travel.
Organization: BBI
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:54:00 GMT

Hi Folks,

I'm looking for suggestions on getting from London to Dublin el cheapo.

Any info would be appreciated. 

Thanks and all the best for the New Year.

	Sean

S. P. Goggin,
Waterloo, Ontario
sp@bbi.kwnet.on.ca | sp@u36.kwnet.on.ca
From: sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: "The Crying Game" (movie)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 17:52:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: chowning.cnmat.berkeley.edu


The movie "The Crying Game" is just now coming out in the USA.  How long  
ago had this been showing in England, Ireland and Scotland?  How was it  
received (critically, ticket sales)?  Or is it possible that its  
distribution was squelched due to the sensitive subject matter?

The main plot (without giving away the Hitchcock-ian surprises) of "The  
Crying Game" is:  a group of IRA terrorists (please, no flames on my word  
choice) kidnaps an English serviceman in Belfast, and the IRA man who ends  
up being responsible for his death travels to London to befriend the  
girlfriend of the serviceman.

The movie is getting rave reviews in the USA, and is getting full  
attendance here at the theatre in Berkeley.  I wouldn't give it five  
stars, but it was definitely worth seeing.
--
Greg Sandell
Research Fellow, Center for New Music and Audio Technologies (CNMAT)
sandell@cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8341 soc.culture.british:17870
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Land Reform
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:25:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1992Dec18.190503.20024@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>Do you class the anarchists as socialists? If so, I would disagree. If
>you read "The Conquest of Bread" by Peter Kropotkin you will find that
>equall emphais is placed on land and industrial reform. If fact most
>anarchist movements have been found in "agrarian regions" (sp?) where
>land reform is the principle issuse. Equally today, if you read The
>Raven the anarchist quarterly (published by Freedom Press) you will find
>many discussions about the redistribution of land within the UK.
>
Yes, I am aware of these people, and have some respect for
them. I suppose I would position myself in relation to them
somewhere in the way a mainstream Labour supporter would
position himself in relation to the fringe socialist groups
like the SWP.

Matthew Huntbach
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: This Favourite Lie Again
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:47:20 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: soc.rights.human
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) wrote:
> byardd@ul.ie writes:
>> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>>> The damn Republic continues to look like the last bastion of 15th century
>>> thinking left in the western world
>> Thats funny coming from someone living in a country whree the Death Penalty
>> is still in operation.
>  I know I couldn't sleep for weeks after Ted Bundy got snuffed... cried
> like a baby. Poor guy. So he killed and mutilated a couple dozen 
> coeds and a small girl - so what? It would be wrong to allow the state
> to kill him.... 

So you pick the least controversial example you can find.  Not one of the
cases where the US has executed people with clinical brain disorders or
mental retardation; not one where they've waited a few years before
executing people convicted as children; not one where they've used the
death penalty as legal lynching to enforce state-backed racism; and not one
where the innocent have been railroaded to satisfy the demands of moral
panic or the reputations of corrupt cops.  According to Amnesty
International's "When the State Kills", the American state has executed
more than 20 innocent people *by its own admission* this century.

Ghouls.  Barbaric, sadistic, throwback filth.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp