HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:00:13 GMT

In article <sw9y1bc@rpi.edu> danaf@rpi.edu writes:
>My (highly flammable...) feelings on the A4000:
>
>In a word, **SIGH**.
>
>What did we get this time? A 32-bit bus (oooo...) with <<FEW>> new graphic modes
>to speak of (we were supposed to TOP IBM and Apple, not play catchup...),

AGA _does_ top Apple and IBM.  We're talking standard equipment here.  Apple
gives you 24-bit standard on a Quadra, sure, but they're somewhat more
expensive than an A4000, too.  As for PCs, the standard everone compares Amigas
to is your bog-standard ISA 486 with SVGA.  SVGA is 18-bit, while AGA is 24.
The Tseng board I use at work can do 32,768 colours at once at 800x600.  AGA
can do 262,144 at the same res.  SVGA cards don't have a blitter, copper, or
sprites.  You can get the blitter and one sprite with a Windows accelerator,
but not a copper.  And, I like my draggable screens, thanks.

Don't worry.  As far as standard equipment goes, we're on top (again).

>what is most likely a buggy beta release of the new OS,

If you don't have a clue, just say so, ok?  You're saying that you don't have
any information, you have no way of knowing how stable the OS is, since
you've obviously never used the release version, so you'd look a lot less
stupid if you just shut up.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:50:58 GMT

In <1992Sep15.060405.8782@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:

>What exactly do they offer that's more?

MS-DOS compatibility and the capability to run Wolfenstein 3D.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:22:04 EDT
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas and games/demo computers

In article <1992Sep8.060341.9815@sactoh0.sac.ca.us>, jmt@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Jon
M. Taylor) says:

>        All of this talk lately about how the Amiga is better for demos
>than PC clones are has me thinking:  the computer world seems to divide
>up into two basic types (of users, programs, and systems).  These are
>hacker/game/demo/neeto-hardware/cheap (like the Apple II, C-64, Amiga,
>Acorn,
>Atari ST), and mega-cpu/device-independent/"real-world app" type
>computers (all pc clones, most UNIX boxes, Amiga 3000).  Obviously, the
>former are better for games and demos and suchlike, because A) they are
>cheap, B) they are standard.  In my opinion, C= is trying (with the
>3000, AA, etc.) to make a category 1 computer into a category 2
>computer, and, again IMO, it's not gonna work.

Good observations...

My personal feeling is that the "hacker-type" machine that we folks
like is basically a dying animal. Any such machine needs the support
of non-techies who like games to succeed (look at the C64 success).
Unfortuntely these people are purchasing only Nintendos/Segas these
days, which leaves only the hackers (too small a market).
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who know
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:17:47 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>Not bloody likely.  No matter how you slice it, a SCSI interface is going to 
>cost plenty more than an IDE interface.  The main point of IDE is that it should
>be approximately free.  Even cheap-ass Mac-like 8-bit PIO SCSI is going to run
>you $10 or so for the SCSI controller.  Certainly having both would cost more
>than just one, though the IDE cost may be lost in the noise.

	Quite correct.  For non-600's, IDE costs a connector and maybe a buffer
chip or two, though you can probably put those in some gate array.

>IDE on the A600 makes perfect sense.  Not only do you not pay anything for it
>(cost is a very important element in any system these days, but particularly
>the low end machines), but virtually all the shrink drives that will fit in an
>A600 are IDE based, since they were originally designed for PC laptops, all of
>which use IDE.  There just isn't room inside an A600 for a full sized drive.

	A small addition: IDE versus no HD interface costs a connector,
a square inch or two of board space, and a couple of watts of power supply
(the power is probably the most expensive of those).  Still close to $0, but
not quite.

-- 
"Rev on the redline, you're on your own; seems like a lifetime, but soon it's
 gone..."  Foreigner
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
From: Bruce_M_Franklin@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The BOOK that will CHANGE YOUR LIFE
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 21:41:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <ALANB.92Sep9162913@swordfish.sdl.mdcbbs.com>
  <1992Sep10.184320.18139@ncmicro.lonestar.org>

BLAZEMONGER seems to be some kind of inside joke.  Could somebody
explain it to me?  I hate missing the point if all the humorous
postings here.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: Frederick.Theilig@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Frederick Theilig)
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:07:03 GMT

     There are three dealers in Rhode Island that I know of.  80 miles
 by 60 miles, population of one million.  There is also one in nearby
 Mass.  Hows that fit in with the statistics?

     F. Michael Theilig  -  RPG117@URIACC.URI.EDU
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Amiga system numbers...
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:08:13 GMT

In article <92255.133045L98CC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <L98CC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
|> Hey, where is your "VWWWWWWoOoooP"?
|> 
|> -----
|> Jongwoo Park          "milo"

Was that posted to me? Hmm... someone at CUNY that knows me....

Well, for you, Milo (sorry, but do I KNOW you?)...

--

		 	   VWOOOOORP!
						-Doc Ami

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 11:57:59 TUR
From: <E66821@TRMETU.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links

In article <1992Aug31.094150.7646@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N
Barrett) says:

 Lines deleted ....


>
>you do not agree that Links 386 Pro makes Amiga Links look like **CRUD**,
>contact me, as you obviously need your vision corrected, psychological help,
>or both.  The picture in Discover magazine shows a game that looks like a
>damn photograph, while the picture in AmigaWorld shows a game that isn't
>all that much better than games for the C-64.
>
   What are the worst looking games on amiga? Games which are first designed
   on PC and then transfered without any particular and special manipulation
   to Amiga .. The excellent examples are Sierra games.


>
>   What is my point about all this?  This is only the beginning for games on
>the IBM platform.  Now that some games have already started coming out that
>support SVGA, more will come.  It will be a *LONG* time before enough Amiga
>systems have sold with AA chipsets to justify software developers producing
>games that support comparable resolutions and color capabilities on the
>Amiga.
>
    Ah Yeah ! I am sure that there will be some stunning games which will
    impress us using the excellent capabilities of SVGA. Tons of colours!!!
    Pay the money buy the hardware. And you ll be able to listen some good
    tunes too. Have no doubt !!!!!

    You have no mind; Try to code Project-X or Alien Breed on Intel based
    machine (Certainly ; you cannot!) then you'll see what are really
    the virtues of Amiga. And remeber games doesn't become good when
    they have extremely well digitized STATIC pictures or tons of samples!


>   Due to lack of progress, the "Ultimate Game Machine" is very fast becoming
>the "Ultimate Joke Machine".

   Amiga is not a game machine .. It is a computer!

>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

 Alp K. Tasdemir

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY'S TRUE DANGER REVEALED!
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:11:23 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <torrie.715668061@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>
>>         Forget about heroin, cocaine, alchohol...
>>          make sure THIS doesn't happen to YOU!
>
>>   PHASE 6 "...CDTV is dead..."
>
>>This is the final stage of human degredation.  The netter becomes bored
>>with simply poking fun at everything, and focuses on one entity to wage
>>total war at.  Two sure signs of this stage is that his posts initially
>>appear rational, but are incessantly negative, and almost constant
>>foaming at the mouth occurs while posting.
>
>  So it would appear you're well-entrenched in Phase 6 then Mike?

Takes one to know one.  NYAHH, NYAHH!

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
>Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick)
Subject: Re: World of Commodore summary, 9/12, part 2 (LONG)
Keywords: new chipsets, WOC
Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.150225.21925@cco.caltech.edu> andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes:
>
>>I find it hard to believe this incredible break from
>>the Amiga architecture is almost in working silicon
>>when it has taken so long for the AGA chipset (C=
>>probably changed the name to get back at all the 
>>people on the net :-) ).
>
>	This is true, but Eggebrecht said that their
>improved VLSI design processes are helping them bring
>products to the market faster than before.
>
>>>--Andre
>>>(who isn't making any of this up, really)

As one who is tired of MBs little tirades and the AX000 hoax postings,
I will verify Louis Eggebrects talk. After all, I have it on videotape.
Dan Zerkle was right in front of me taking notes for comp.sys.amiga.announce.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that many other things were
subtly implied that they couldn't talk about. Particulary about some
new hardware that is supposed to be announced at the Winter CES in Las Vegas.

I talked to Jim Dionne about doing a modular CDTV unit, cartridged based, that
could be expanded into a full fledged Amiga. He nodded in agreement and
suggested I come to the CES (VRLI will have a booth there, so I'll post 
a report). Going back in my notes on his talk he mentioned that CA is
going to attempt to get back into the "C64 market", meaning a low-cost
machine in the $150 to $200 range that could be sold at Toys-R-Us. It
all depends on whether they can make it costs effective. He did say that
they at one time had a simple cartridge machine prototyped, but that
they didn't think that it could effectively compete against SEGA or the 
NES. So they had to come up with something better.

I also asked him if they had plans for lo-end 68020 machines so they
could phase out the 68000. He simply replied "YES! But I can't say
anymore". 

mike


>>Are you sure :-)  It's harder to believe than any of the Amiga X000 
>>fake posts.
>
>	Well, I'm glad to say no, this was all said.  Besides
>who could dream up of stuff like this?  There were firecode-
>breaking numbers of people in the room and they all heard
>the same speech (I hope :).
>
>--Andre
>
>-- 
>Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)


-- 
"There is no problem too big that can't be solved with high explosives"-Rush

Mike Smithwick - ames!zorch!mike

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey)
Subject: Re:  C= (Sweden) does things right!
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:55:01 GMT
Organization: Rob's home system, Hopkins, MN

In article <root.02ex@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
=>Perhaps when Dillon finishes porting BSD 4.4 we will see some cheaper systems,
=>that use an 040.
=I think you're going to have a long wait.  Matt has basically dropped the
=BSD 4.4 project until he sees the outcome of the AT&T/BSDI suit.
=

	Would Matt be willing to help out with the AmigaMach project?!?!?

	They could really use his expertise in the hardware specific
	code. The Amiga video drivers are especially ugly. Remove the
	ROM code and Amiga video is NOT fun to implement console
	and graphics drivers for... SCSI, ethernet and serial port
	drivers are also needed.

	With the AT&T/BDSI lawsuit maybe we should concentrate efforts
	on Mach and maybe GNU hurd once the Mach core is stable.

		-Rob
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford)
Subject: POLL: The .advocacy Machine
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 04:06:43 GMT


80 % thought that only one new model with the AA chipset at WOC


name:
17  Amiga 4000
1        3000+

CPU location:
14   daughter    
5    mother

CPU:
2    030
5    040
10    choice     4 040 at show

Floppy:
12   HD
5    880
1    choice

HD interface:
12    IDE
5     SCSI
1     both
1     choice

Sound:
13    Same   1 upgradable later
6     new

DSP:
14     no
4     yes

OS:
3    2.1
11   3.0
4    2.1 and 3.0 beta  (1 said 2.2 in alpha)

Price: (for Amiga 4000)
$3000
$3400
$3500
$3000
too many $$$$
$4000
$4499
$3500
$5000
$4000
$3000
$4000
$3000

other: package with 386BB, nice slim case, many options 16megs on
motherboard

other systems metioned:

A3400 030/motherboard 880k IDE same sound no DSP 2.1 $3000
A2200 EC030/motehrboard 880k IDE same sound no DSP 2.1 $2000
A2200 030/motherboard HD IDE same sound no DSP 3.0 $1500
A800  020/motherboard HD IDE same sound no DSP 3.0 $800
A8000 with 88110 Dolby HX Pro, Surround

Thanks for participating.  We shall see how we did Friday. (I hope)

 

-- Andrew Hansford
   ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Icon default tool paths (was Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.)
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:47:21 GMT


Is that true? I think, under 1.3, the tooltypes are compatible with the system
path... aren't they?

Anyway, it's not really a consideration. Most programs, or at least the well-
programmed ones, will have either two versions, one to take full advantage of
the 2.04 system, and one to use 1.3, or at least two install/ReadMe icons, one
for a 2.04 system and one for a 1.3 system. Sooo, at least on the 2.04 system,
you could drop the path.

Secondly, somebody's gotta say it.... YES, forget about the 1.3 users. 2.04 is
now the official version of WB/KS, and it's about time programmers and developers
started realizing that. It pisses me off that, even on new programs like Quarter-
Back 5.0, the font handling for oversized WB title fonts is incorrect. I have my
WB window title font set to 24-point Futura, my favorite CG font, and a nice
readable size for titles. Unfortunately, HALF of the programs published since
the release of 2.04 don't create the correctly-sized structures (e.g: an 8-point
window title, with buttons and/or text UNDER the bottom 2/3 of my font...) and
another 50% of the ones that DO handle it correctly do it in a stupid way. Such
as QuarterBack 5.0, where the the structures ARE sized correctly, but my font is
too big to fit everything on the screen! Any program that does not allow the user
to customize fonts under 2.04 is not, in my opinion, written properly.

(I believe the problem with QB was fixed, and this is NOT a condemnation of this
very excellent backup program, but it's still DUMB...)

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story )
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
Summary: NOT!
Originator: eas3714@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: World
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 18:25:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.075530.22445@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.031220.20736@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902125@ariel.yorku.ca (SHUK C YIP) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug31.094150.7646@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>>   What is my point about all this?  This is only the beginning for games on
>>>the IBM platform.  Now that some games have already started coming out that
>>>support SVGA, more will come.  It will be a *LONG* time before enough Amiga
>>>systems have sold with AA chipsets to justify software developers producing
>>>games that support comparable resolutions and color capabilities on the
>>>Amiga.  

What do you want?  You complain that the AA chipset should be released,
then when its close to release you bitch that it wont be supported right
off the bat.  Why don't you get a fuckin' clue, dude?  Why are you
complaining?  OF COURSE any new technology added to the Amiga line will
take a bit to become a standard, whether it has 1024x1024 24bit graphics or
640x480x256 color graphics like the AA seems to have.

>>>   Due to lack of progress, the "Ultimate Game Machine" is very fast becoming
>>>the "Ultimate Joke Machine".

The old Amigas, yes.. But then, the AA machines ARE progress for the
Amiga line (or will be, at any rate).. we'll see...

>>Calm down! They just compared the original IBM version with Amiga
>>version. (not LINKS386/PRO version) Under 320x200 resolution mode, HAM
>>is better than VGA.
>
>   You picked out a small detail and argued with it, instead of debating my
>actual point.  My point is that the Amiga is no longer the best game machine 
>around, and probably will never be ever again.  So many 386 systems with SVGA
>cards have sold that games on these systems will always outclass Amiga games.
>Amiga games -- being restricted to tiny palettes, few on-screen colors, slow
>computers (since  fast Amigas are not selling very well), and very low
>resolutions -- games on the IBM platform that increasingly take advantage of
>the better capabilities of SVGA have more room for growth.

Dude, why don't you look at the title of the thread you produced.
AmigaWorld Lies about LINKS.  Guess what? YOU'RE WRONG.. Link Pro JUST
came out from what I've seen.. that review was done with a comparison
between IBM and Amiga Links.. Did you see the word "LinksPro" anywhere
in the article.. nope.. YOU'RE WRONG. 

LinksPro is better than anything the current Amiga's can produce out of
the box, to be sure, tho.  You don't need to LIE to make your point,
dude.

-- 
"THAT is a DRY turtle.  That turtle is NOT moist!"
Ezra Story, a student at RIT, and
eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:44:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.203807.29832@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
>
>	Does anyone out there REALLY think I'm going to buy a machine with a
>120-meg HD and then try to back that beast up onto >150< floppy disks?
>Alright, I probably won't have 120 megs of data.  Make it a hundred disks.

 HD floppies -> 50 disks

 Compression during backup (QB 5.0) -> 25 disks.

 Incremental backup strategy -> normally use far less than this.

>	Sorry, I have a life.

Same here.  I have no problem with backing up to floppy.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23646 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:13238
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Icon default tool paths (was Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.)
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:08:58 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas) writes:

>As it stands now, I have some simple layout code that is already font-
>sensitive.  It's a single-pass algorithm, so it can't center buttons or
>adjust sizes to be the maximum of some set of widgets, but it IS font
>sensitive.

  The major problem with a font insensitive (you got your definition wrong
there, it's font-aware, but insensitive to the font size) layout is the
limitations vertically more than the horizontal layout.

  Not only do you have to adjust the offset from the title due to different
height fonts in the title, you also have to take into account the offsets
between each object.  Computing the offsets isn't that hard, that's not
the problem here, it's determining how many vertical elements you can put
in a given window since you could render some number of objects below the
window if the font used is too large.

  And, you can't simply aim for a window that's smaller than the screen
because you have to consider 200 line non-interlaced NTSC screens.

  The horizontal layout problem has more to do with the language used to
label the objects, proportional fonts also add some problems of their own
if you're writing text in various locations, which is why Greg summed it up 
by saying that you're only going to win if you restrict yourself to a 
butt-ugly vertical strip of objects.

  *That* is why a font insensitive GUI is not a Good Thing.

>No, this is an example where flexibility without adequate management is a
>dangerous idea.  If anything, the flexibility is -lacking- in the gadget
>code. 

  And that's the crux of this biscuit, you can't adequately manage it due to
not having a limitation on height or width of the supplied fonts.

  If we were told that system would only allow fonts that fit into a narrow
band of width and height you'd still have some measure of user flexibility
in choosing the font of their choice while giving us a target that moves
along predictable vectors to shoot at.

  -jack-