HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Surface Area (was Re: Tires : Slicks vs. Treaded: Help Please)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 13:14:40 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.think.com

In article <BvrGqx.32q@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1av1igINNb2r@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:
|> >In article <bassek.718451041@vipunen.hut.fi>, bassek@lesti.hut.fi (Basse Kankkonen) writes:
|> >|> 
|> >|> It ocurred to me that the formula of friction is F=u*m*g
|> >|> (u=constant of friction,m=mass,g=acc. 9.81m/s^2)
|> >|> This means that the traction is not depending on the area.
|> >
|> >One correction.  While the above formula is correct, it is a common
|> >mistake to apply it to tires in such a manner.  The reason for this
|> >is *drumroll* statistics!  When applied to the surface area you are
|> >assuming that all of the tire's surface area is in contact with the
|> >tarmac.  This assumption is faulty due to inevitable inconsistencies
|> >in the road surface.  The dynamic nature of the contact requires
|> >highly complex modeling,
|> 
|> So what is the result of this complex modeling? Does it somehow bring in
|> a term invloving the contact area? Does it tend to increase or decrease
|> the "apparent" coefficient of friction in the original equation?

Going on from memory from four years back so no flames!

I recall that one of the factors in one of the crucial sub-equations
did consist of the area NOT in contact with the road surface and was
a statistical model based upon the tires hardness and road surface
factors (i.e. depth of pitting, % of pitting.....).

Of course I was just a computer jockey at the time for Michelein's
chief numerical analyst so I was never too involved with the math.
All I knew was that he seemed pretty happy to ask me this as a
physics riddle and run through the math with me at high speed to show
me why my gut instinct reply was the correct one.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: fireman@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Tracy L. Brooks)
Subject: McDonald's (was Re: Dover Eyewitness Wanted (NASCAR))
Organization: Computer and Technologies Theme Program, NCSU, Raleigh
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:27:00 GMT

In article <394@rehab1.UUCP> dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.221221.1511@schbbs.mot.com> CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Craig Witkowski) writes:
>>Also,  thanks for the news flash in your other post about Junior and McDonalds
>>in 93.  I wonder why the number is changing and where 22 will wind up.
>
>  The #22 is staying with Maxwell House. My guess is they have number, sponser
> relationship already set in the fans mind and dont want to lose it. So they
> bought the number from junior.
>

Oh yeah, one other thing.  I heard that Maxwell House landed a deal with
McDonald's to be the coffee supplier of McDonald's.  It seems as if
McDonald's didn't want to be the sole sponsor, so Maxwell House said,
Hey, we'll spilt the cost if you buy our coffee. 

So look for Maxwell House in McDonald's next year an possibly on the
side of the McDonal's car.

later,

Tarcy B.
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
|     Tracy Lee Brooks                     fireman@catt.ncsu.edu      |
|     FF/1st Responder                     tlbrook@eos.ncsu.edu       |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
Xref: sparky rec.autos.sport:11199 rec.autos.tech:13884
From: damon@tc.fluke.COM (Damon Darley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Effects of compression ration increase on HP
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:55:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Oct12.155559.7928
Followup-To: poster
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA



I am trying to determine the effects caused by increasing compression 
ratio on total HP.

Is it decreasing effect?  What percent per point? etc? etc?

Please include the source of your information or explain why you 
came up with you answers.

Thanks Damon

(206) 356 6049 or E-Mail.
-- 
Damon Darley	damon@tc.fluke.COM	John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc.
					PO Box C9090    MS 99
		(206) 356-6049		Everett, WA 98206   USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa)
Subject: Re Driving Lights, for Larry
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:26:12 GMT

Hi Larry, 
  I tried to reply to you about the lights, but the email keeps 
bouncing, 
  could you please email me again and I can send you the info.
                 ciao
                Sirish

-- 
| Sirish 'RACE OR DIE' Vissa                       |--\__            _____  |
| Gen II  Motorsports, India              /-------|     \---\       /  27 | |
| svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu        /--\/__/-----------------\_ /--\\----/ |
| sirish@mn.ecn.purdue.edu       _/_|_()_|__|##|_FERRARI______|:|_()_|      |
From: William.A.Hall.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (William A. Hall Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Top Five (US) drivers; forget the tracks ....
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:24:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct11.182406.5402
 <1992Oct11.045318.15094@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct11.045318.15094@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes:

> -       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
> -     " You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they        -
> -       could and should do for themselves. "                              -
> -                                              - Abraham Lincoln           -

Excellent signature, by the way!!!!!!!!!
William Hall, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH.

"Abortion is advocated only by persons that have themselves been born."
-- Ronald Reagan
From: johnl@amiganet.chi.il.us (John Liskey)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Max Mosely Interview
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:30:36 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

I decided I wasn't done sounding off... I want to comment on one more comment
by Moseley on Sky News or whatever..

He talks about who Mansell's move to Indycar will benefit most..

Well, in combo with Michael's move to F1, it sure looks to me like it's helped
everyone in the world unite (cept Moseley).. I personally am taking more
interest in F1, asking some of you questions so I can watch Michael
semi-knowledgebly next year, and there has been alot of interest from you folx
in Europe in Indycar racing as seen by the  recent threads.. but all it takes
is a badly timed stupid comment like Moseley made to ruin it all.. This guy is
defeating his own purpose... to unite world motorsport..

John Liskey
johnl@amiganet.chi.il.us
From: LCHENG@WATSON.IBM.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Surface Area (was Re: Tires : Slicks vs. Treaded: Help Please)
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:34:53 GMT

In a previous article andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter) had written:

>eve that a bigger tire does tend to have greater rolling resistance than a
>ler one, this may slow down a slick versus a grooved tire and cut into its
>conomy, but if this was enough to make a difference, you wouldn't see race
>universally using slicks in the dry. (except for those rally and off road
>crazies :-) )                                          555555555555555555

Not really relevant to this thread, but I'd like to present an article
from Autosport that describes the black magic involved in rallying
(which we all know is much more exciting than track racing :-) ).

 Unusual circumstances sometimes lead to desperate measures,
 and none seemed so desperate as when Michelin and Pirelli
 once again started attacking the carefully sculptured contours
 of their rally tyres with knives.  The surface of the stages
 on the Rally Australia seemed to present a unique challenge.
 "We cut them because of the very unusual nature of the surface,"
 explained TTE (Toyota) team manager Maurice Gauslard.  "It is
 simply to get grip and overcome the problem of the little
 ball-bearing-type bauxite stones on the roads.  Certainly we
 do not do it to affect the compound of the tyres." ...

 Lancia Team Manager, Ninni Russo, explained: ... "This year
 we concentrated on new Michelin tyres (type F40), but we still
 had to find out how they would work best here.  The Michelin
 technicians discussed this, but one of the best solutions came
 from our veteran mechanic Rino Buschiazzi, working with Gerald
 Aussage of Michelin, who showed how we should cut away some of
 the blocks in the tread.  We had many possibilities, like
 reducing the width of the tyre on the road, but when we came
 here for tests after the 1000 Lakes we found this didn't work.
 We also tried cutting the tyres in two other ways but Rino's
 way made the car the quickest."  The method they used was to
 remove individual blocks.  This was done not to eject the
 stone - but to trap them between the blocks.  Michel Martin
 of Michelin said: "It was a masterstroke.  By jamming the
 stones together it was like using studs."

 - from 27 September 1990 Autosport

- Lawrence Cheng
  lcheng@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Speed Comparison
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:28:00 GMT

dan@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Danilo Silva) writes...
>I was watching a motorcycle race on TV and wondering how those bikes (500s)
>would compare to F1 on a same track. I understand that a bike is usually
>faster than a car (like 0-60 in 2.7 sec for ZX11), but F1 ...???
> 
>Anyone ???

As far as lap times, 500's can't even hope to compare to F3000. It is
like comparing apples to oranges. However, in a strait line speed contest,
they compare very favorably. It's in the corners where a F1 cars high
downforce and large tires prove the difference. Of course, as far as
being a spectator event, F1 is second best as far as I'm concerned.

For a specific example, take Suzuka. 500's take around 2m09s for a 
pole whilst F1 takes a spartan 1m32s for pole. However the sprint to
First Curve would be tight (until the bike had to start breaking many
meters before to car).

George

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: torda@igc.ethz.ch (Andrew Torda)
Subject: Re: Alan Jones (was Re: More Rumours from Portugal ...)
Organization: Computational Chemistry, ETH, Zuerich
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:32:11 GMT

In article <thos.718495749@suite.sw.oz.au> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
[...]
>All this from memory, so corrections welcomed :
>
>Jones was one of the drivers for the Lola-Haas team, which used the 
>Cosworth V6 turbo motor. They started in 1985 with a blaze of publicity
>saying that they were going to spend $80M over 5 years (sounded a lot
>in those days), but then problems cropped up, Beatrice Foods (I think it
>was they) were bought out, and basically they were underfunded and wanted
>results too quickly. So, after 2 years of tooling around in the lower 3rd 
>of the grid, AJ decided it wasn't dignified enough and went back to 
>racing touring cars in Oz for fun.
[...]

Didn't Jones tinker with the Arrows team somewhere between his first
Bathurst drive and his later dealing with Lola-Haas ?
I seem to remember some abortive test drives in slow machines. I can't
remember if he ever tried to get one of the arrows on to a grid or if
he gave up in disgust after a bit of testing.
I do remember that this didn't go on for very long and he was soon
back in the country.

Is he still mucking around in the Oz touring cars ?
-Andrew
-- 

Andrew Torda, Computational Chemistry, ETH, Zurich, torda@igc.ethz.ch
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: IndyCar/FISA agreement (was Re: F1 Rules update)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:21:38 GMT

In article <14OCT199223023473@utarlg.uta.edu> b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu 
(George M. Smiley) writes:
[...]
>IndyCars have been granted permission to
>run at most 6 races outside U.S/Canada but
>they all must be ovals. 
[...]
>As for this IndyCar nonsense, Surfers Paradise isn't a oval
>and it is on the 93 schedule, so I don't think CART cares
>too much about getting FISA's permission to race.

FISA has pledged hands-off the IndyCar races in North America (leaving
a Mexico road race possible?  or just Canada/US?) *and* the Surfer's
Paradise race.  Any other new races must be ovals, and yes, the talk
of an IndyCar race in Brazil has been concentrating on an oval track.

Meanwhile, CART/IndyCar's Bill Stokkan has said that he wants to help
FISA in any way possible to return an F1 presence to the U.S.

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Perry G Ramsey)
Subject: Re: Motorsports vs. Traditional Sports
Organization: Purdue University, Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:08:46 GMT

In article <my4msB2w165w@dlhpfm.UUCP> dlhpfm.uucp!dlh@ab.com (daniel lance herrick) writes:
>> In article <1992Oct13.205454.29245@hubcap.clemson.edu> andy@newton.cs.clemson
>> >  I have often thought what a great sport inter-collegiate single
>> >seater racing would be.  
>This is not what you are talking about, but, a quarter century ago,
>Purdue University had an annual intramural cart race.  

And they still do.  Every April.
The cars might be described as caged go-karts.
In the four years I've been here, I've managed to miss it every time, but
it's taken pretty seriously.  Practice lasts the whole month on a
permanent road course next to the football field.
-- 
Perry G. Ramsey         Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu  Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN USA
perryr@purccvm          Life is short ...
N9LFF                   Don't waste it folding underwear.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436)
Subject: Bridgestone Supercars (Was Re: Question)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:31:59 GMT

From article <1992Oct13.175925.16420@igor.tamri.com>, by salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena):
> In article <1992Oct12.163258.8033@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood) writes:
>>
>>Can anyone comfirm that Porsche won the manufacturer's cup in the Bridgestone 
>>Supercar series?  Thanks.
>>
>>Deron Wood
> 
> I know for a fact that Doc Bundy has won the drivers championship with
> Lotusport.  It was my understanding that Lotusport was behind Porsche by a
> couple of points after the Phoenix race.  I was told that Lotusport had to
> place 1 and 3 to win the manufacture's cup in Phoenix.  Doc Bundy did come in
> first in Phoenix, but the other Lotusport entries finished lower than 3rd.
> 
> Well the race this past weekend in San Diego, Lotusport capatured 2, 3, 4 and
> 7.  The Porsche's came in 1 and 5 (or 6).  Based on these results, I think that
> Lotusport may have won the manufacture's cup.
> 
> -- 
> Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
> Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
> South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From USA today for Monday:

Sunday's victory by a 1992 Porsche 911 Turbo driven by Austrian Hans Stuck
in the IMSA Bridgestone Supercar Championship event at Del Mar CA, clinched
the Supercar Manufacturers title for Porsche.

End of quote.

Ross Taylor

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dave@monitor.larc.nasa.gov (Dave A. Hinde)
Subject: Re: AutoWeek on Patrese's crash
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:47:02 GMT

In article <1avc2mINNso0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
|> 
|> In a previous article, wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) says:
|> 
|> >He admitted he didn't signal in any way.  The excuse why doesn't cut it.
|> >By the time of the contact the corner was long since completed -- the
|> >g-forces had subsided.  If the pit entrance WAS too close to the
|> >corner's exit to permit time for a signal (and reaction time for the
|> >following driver), he was obligated to signal earlier if necessary.
|> 
|> 
|> You are right.  But how much time did he have to come to this conclusion?
|> ~1:20 or , depending on what you said is true. 

There are several ways Berger could have avoided the "incident".  He could have
slowed slightly as he pulled over, before braking, allowing Patrese to pass.  He
could have let Patrese by before the corner.  He could have slowed in the corner.
All these would have prevented the incident.  They all have one other thing in 
common: Berger would have lost a second on the track.  Obviously he was concentrating
more on his position than making a safe pit entry.  

                                      ___/,@___  Dave Hinde, Last Minute Racing
                                     /_o_____o_| dave@monitor.larc.nasa.gov
PS
     BTW, this is strictly IMHO, but it comes from 28 years of behind the wheel
experience.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
Subject: MRN coverage of Charlotte?
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:28:49 GMT

I usually watch the NASCAR races on TV and also listen to them on MRN.
My local MRN station had the race on Sunday all right, but it wasn't MRN.
I think it was called the "Performance Racing Network (PRN?)."  Anybody
have any info on this?  Does PRN and MRN both cover races, and my local
station just decided to switch.  Or was this a one-time deal?  Kinda like
how TBS and TNN are trying to emulate the good job ESPN has been doing for
years.
In my opinion, PRN was certainly nowhere near the quality of MRN.  
--
Terry Matula
tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
matula@ee.msstate.edu
From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: New teams
Date: 12 Oct 1992 18:58:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The Sauber team was the subject of an On Track article in last   
week's edition.  According to the Sauber, the gearbox for the
car will be operated on the steering wheel presumably like that
on the Williams, Ferrari, and McLaren.  The big difference is,
however, the drivers will still have to operate the clutch in
a normal manner.  The gears are selected from the steering 
wheel, but the transmission mechanicals will apparently be con-
ventional.  A semi-automatic gearbox could not be far behind.
-- 

-Brian Wilson...               No, not from the Beach Boys!
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: carbon brakes [was: something about the Honda RA168E engine]
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:23:02 GMT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article AA23085@slc10.INS.CWRU.Edu, ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Richard Banks) forwards comments by A.H.Henry@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew
Henry), buried in the middle of which we find:

>     The main advantage
>     with the carbon brakes is that they are about a half of the weight of
>     the iron ones.

Then how is it that they dramatically reduce stopping distance?  Or was
all of that "banning carbon fiber brakes is a Good Thing because it
will promote overtaking under braking" stuff posted a while back in
error?

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

     Sloppy thinking gets worse over time
				- Jenny Holzer
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Alan Jones (was Re: More Rumours from Portugal ...)
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:14:27 GMT

In <1086@pico.qpsx.oz.au> conrad@pico.qpsx.oz.au (Conrad Drake) writes:

>torda@igc.ethz.ch (Andrew Torda) writes:
>: Is he still mucking around in the Oz touring cars ?

>He most certainly is.  He's been piloting one of the two competive BMW
>325s that have been running in the Oz touring circus.  As CAMs has
 ^^^

Er, M3.  A very different car.

>effectively banned all but two particular types of car in next years rule, Jones
>is going to drive an example of one of them.  I _think_ it will be a
>Ford Falcon and I am _sure_ that someone will brutally correct me if I
>am wrong.

He's driving for Seton's Ford Falcon team.  CAMS have actually
allowed BMW one years grace, during which they can run '92 spec
cars against the V8s.  How many of you noticed (the papers certainly
didn't) that of the cars eligible to run next year that ran at
Bathurst (effectively the non-turbo ones) the BMW was first (third
after 2 GT-Rs and a Sierra).  The Bimmers may surprise and embarrass
a few people yet.

BTW, Ron Meatcham (head honcho of BMW Australia) is trying to
convince CAMS to let BMW run current bodywork (E36) with the old
mechanicals.  Obviously this makes sense from a marleting point of
view.  I don't know what CAMS will do.  I was talking to Peter
Doulman (privateer M3) about it and he seemed to think Ron had
buckley's (translation: no chance).
-- 
Paul O'Donnell - Softway Pty Ltd         |"You're just saying that because
Internet: pod@softway.sw.oz.au           |you don't understand art."
Phone: +61 2 698-2322 Fax: +61 2 699-9174|     - Jeremy Fitzhardinge
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Motorsports vs. Traditional Sports
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:09:25 GMT

I'm soliciting comments/opinions on an article I'm putting
together for publication.  Basically it addresses the level
of media coverage (newspapers/tv/radio) motorsports receives
in comparison to all other sports (traditionally stick and
ball stuff) in the '90's.  It will also touch on "how do we
break down the stereotyping of those of us who primarily
enjoy motorsports by other sports fans?" (or, if that can
ever take place).

My observations tell me that "sports fanatics", in general,
continue to hold professional motorsports on the same level
as professional wrestling.  This group includes many sports
journalists and commentators.

Does 'geographics' play a part?  Does the southeast US experience
the same problems that we do here in the Pacific Northwest?  Is
the problem due to the fact that just about everyone has had the
opportunity to participate in most sports other than car racing?
Is it the danger factor? ("You could get Killed doing that")?

On the other hand, most everyone drives/owns a motor vehicle.
Shouldn't that in itself cause a passing interest in racing?

Any sports psychologists out there??

-cball-
From: phil@muppet.bt.co.uk (Phil DNM44)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Second Williams driver next year...
Date: 8 Oct 92 08:31:53 GMT
Reply-To: phil@muppet.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom


In article 718491298@tasman, graeme@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Graeme) writes:
##The morning news (Oct.8) claims Williams will announce their second
##driver for next year later this month; he will be chosen from
##Brundle or Damon Hill.
##
##Any confirmation?
##Graeme.



indeed  the bbc ceefax in the uk said that last night, (7th Oct) and
there is an earlier post from Andrew Henry, attributing    Motoring
News with a more detailed view.


---
phil houseago                   		|Isn't it midnight somewhere??   
phil@muppet.bt.co.uk           		|shouldn't I be asleep??
colchester - esx - g8sgb		|
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport