HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:25:43 CDT
From:         "Leonard Watkins" <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Theory and improvisation (was RE: perfumed ambience)
              9 Oct 1992 11:06:06 -0400 from <R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU>

On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:06:06 -0400 Russ Gelinas said:
>>At the risk of sounding like Lenny Ray,
I'm flattered you know you idolize me.....:-)...Lenny Ray

they way i see this improvisation vs training...etc in my case if i had alot
of theory knowledge (i'm not totally ignorant on it though) i would spend too
much time thinking about what i'm doing instead of playing from the heart
(pretty corny huh). When i think of the players that have influenced me and
move me, they strike me as playing from the heart and there talent is in their
feeling not really in their fingers....I bet SRV used run-on-sentences-too
....L.W.
From: MAINT2@ERS.BITNET (Ken Koester)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Slainte Mhath
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:44:48 GMT
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On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:44:52 EDT Michael H. Bloom said:
>
>From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
>Subject:      Re: A survivor from Warsaw
>
>> The context, though, was that it's easier to remember a numeric designation
>> when there are fewer numbers to remember.  *Not* that one composer was better
>> than another.  I didn't quote text because I was damned if I was going to
>> hit the delete line key a hundred and elventy times!  :-)
>
>I spoke in haste, but I do think there's some reasonableness to the notion that
>if it really was a top ten piece, you'd remember its number! Regarding your
>delete key, you need a better editor! What kinda system you working on anyway?
>
Ricemail--but I bestirred myself to finally trying a few XEDIT commands to
speed things up.  Much better--though I still haven't worked out an acceptably
good way to quote multiple texts.  I can think of a sleezy way, but can't help
hoping I've missed something to simplify that.  Please don't tell me that you
actually -reply-/-suspend- each note, then -get- each one back into your main
response (or -move-, or -forward-, or -whatever-).

As for the top 10--what am I to do?  I've got a top 100 or 2--my poor head
would be filled with numbers all day long--and Vivaldi has 2 sets of numbers,
if memory serves.  And as for Telemann--heck they haven't even catalogued it
all yet.  What I need is a direct interface to an online musical catalogue
database. . . .
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:37:35 CDT
From:         "Leonard Watkins" <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      SRV

Have you ever heard "the-grammy-winning" blues explosion that he plays
TEXAS Flood, this was the show that runed Mick Jagger, Bowie and
Jackson Browne on to SRV, he wasn't widely know outside of Texas at the time
and I couldn't imagine hearing some-one i've never heard of play like that.
If you'd like a copy i'll be glad to mail it. Just post you u.s. mail adress
and you'll get it.......L.W.
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Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:03:13 EDT
From:         Sonia Kovitz <skovitz@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Chessboard
              Hosken" at Oct 16, 92 1:49 pm

 Little Miss Caboose as always, I want to add my applause to earlier raves re:
Marco's latest creation, The Chessboard!  I had my first listen last night, and
it is wonderful, rich and interesting music.

I was trying to think how I would describe it, and I just want you to know that
I came up with an image and THEN... I realized, wow, that connects with the
"chessboard" but I WASN'T thinking at all of the name of the CD when I came up
with the image!  To describe Marco's music I thought of the phrase "bright
spirit" but a bright spirit with its dark threads or currents... in fact, the
perfect word, right down Marco's alley, is *chiaroscuro*!

After I thought of that word, I realized the chessboard itself is dark and
light... that may not be what he attended with the title, but it seemed to fit.
I also connect a chessboard with Lewis Carroll's _Through the Looking Glass_
with that wonderful chess game (where you have to run just to stay in the same
place)... Alice running in place with the winds flying around her--seemed to
fit the music, unless I'm stretching things...  i.e. a lot of "motion" in the
music but... contemplative motion.

Finally, Marco, don't kill me for this, but I loved the Oddboard [fragments
from the master tapes] at least as much as the Chessboard proper!  That's
probably because I always like the ragged edges, I LIKE to see the origins of
things, to watch it happen... and if anything, for my taste the Chessboard is a
bit OVER-polished... Maybe once you get famous, which should happen REAL fast,
you can afford to let'er rip more... wilder and looser, but again, you should
be very suspicious of the opinion of an

aging-hipster-beatnik-psycho-anti-intellectual-bodacious-sexpot-religious-nut

like

Sonia

P.S. Next on my reviewing schedule: the Astroturf-McIntyre's TOTENTANZ and
MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION.  I've already put on my horned helmet to get in
character...
From: USTS060@UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU (Dave Hall)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: A slightly altered thread
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:31:18 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


     Oddly enough, one of my classes this week focused on Carnival as
ritualized blasphemy (there is more here so just hold on).  The relevance
of this is that originally carnival was a form of "organized" rebellion,
where for a period of time all aspects and standards of and in a community
were inverted.  Carnival provided a period of time to blow off steam and
engage in practices normally taboo.  The practical side of this is that it
a.) allows for the blowing off of steam and pent up aggressions at authority
and b.) it helps further intergrate the community by reinforcing what should
be done the rest of the year.
     Carnival no longer exists in this active sense (at least in the States,
anyway).  Mardi Gras is not carnival.  Mardi Gras is just a week long
blow out and drunken bash.  What does remain in America is a sense
of carnival.  It's found in literature, music, art and another form of
expression.
     The point here is that carnival was originally sanctioned by the Church
and other major social institutions and was therefore not really rebellion.
Todays expressions of carnival are much the same.  MTV, an org. which
expresses a youthful and rebellious attitude, mixes "avante garde" videos
containing any of a number of "political messages" with corporate
advertisements.  Madonna prances in her underwear (a seemingly rebellious
move) and the tells you to vote!
     It appears that corporate America and the other sources of authority
learned their lesson in the sixties.  Anything that bears even the slightest
resemblance to rebellion is now snatched up and made mainstream.  By
the mid to late sixties any piece of avant garde art that looked in the
least bit unconventional was immediately praised as something new
and innovative.
     This same phenomenon (and this is where I've been leading to) can
be seen in music, mainly what was once alternative.  The powers
that be saw alternative music as a rebellion against corporate rock
and the pabble of the FM stations (a pretty accurate analysis IMHO).
What better way to kill it than make it your own!  Now former leaders of
the alternative scene like R.E.M. & U2 are mega stars.  The image this
repesents is that rebellion is futile and will just become part of that
which you wish to change.
     Oh God, now I'm depressed.  Can anyone brighten my day?  Prove
me wrong!

======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall               |  "We are all born mad. Some remain so."
usts060@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu   |          -- Samuel Beckett
======================================================================
From: LESPAUL@UNC.BITNET (Jim Kirkman (LP))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: YO!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:51:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Well, after an extended LOA I'm back in the fold. And yes,
NRBQ is still the king!  Great new release of live cuts from
over the years called Honest Dollar with a killer version of
the Batman theme song, and a wonderful offkey rendition of that
classic tune "One,Two,Three" (that's how easy baby it's gonna be...)
not to mention two versions of The Dummy Song. Also should mention
Terry Adams contributions to the latest David Sanborn release (whom
I don't really care for too much), but there is a cut called hObbies
that Terry wrote that is a wonderful, quirky little tune. Anybody
familiar with it?
OK, now I need some info. I now have access to the great cloud known
as the Internet. It's a wonderful thing but it has no Allmusic. Our
site, UNC at Chapel Hill is in the process of phasing bitnet out and
there was a message put out that basically said that anything you
access on bitnet you could get through the Internet. Is this true?,
can I get Allmusic as a list like the alt.music.xxx or whatever?
Anyone who knows might as well post to the list so other interested
parties can share the knowledge. Thanks for any info.
Are the regulars still out there? Carol and the Bloomster and the
Beermeister, et. al.? Michael, I listen the Henry Cow and Knitting
Factory tapes a lot these days, although my wife and daughter say
they sound like a broken record (the 5 yr. old's terminology).
Anybody critiqued the new P. Gabriel disc yet, Marco maybe? I hear
he's been one depressed fellow lately, something about women, huh?
Well, enough rambling for now. More later.
                                         See Ya
                                         L.P.
oh, one OSC if i may
BRAVES WIN BRAVES WIN BRAVES WIN BRAVES WIN BRAVES WIN BRAVES WIN
From: cck1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CHRISTIAN CHARLES KAZANECKI)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Bodies in Panic
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:36:35 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

A few years ago, I loaned my only copy of Bodies in Panic to a friend of mine,
and he lost it.  I'd like to get another.  The name of the album is "Bodies in
Panic", by the group Bodies in Panic, featuring the song "Bodies in Panic".
Iknow, I know, it sounds stupid, but the music is pretty decent and the lyrics
are hysterical.  Back when I first got it, the style of music was called hard
core punk.  Who the hell knows what they call it now, but it was along the
same lines as Agnostic Front and Chaos UK.  If anyone has heard of these guys
or knows where I can get a copy of the album, please respond to TES0@LEHIGH.EDU
Thanks in advance.

Tom Schmidlin
TES0@LEHIGH.EDU
-- 

                                                 -- Metal.



   "When you know that your time is close at hand,
     maybe then you'll begin to understand,
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:37:50 EST
From:         Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
Subject:      Theory and improvisation (was RE: perfumed ambience)

    Following Mike-Marco's discussion of classical training vs
    improvisational music:

    OK, classical training restricts musician's creativity (or at least
makes one more critical about his own stuff). But is there any training
that gives a person an ability to improvise? Maybe, jazz training?
    I was around some jazz schools back in Russia (Jazz in Russia? What
the hell is that?!). I've seen many excellent (in technical sense)
musicians, who studied jazz for years. It seems, however, that what they
are taught as 'improvisation' is actually the ability to combine
previousely learned pieces fitting them into the main theme of the
composition. They have a vast library of small musical extracts in
their heads, and more or less randomly they retrieve those when
necessary. It's like in a Glass Bead Game, when you don't create new
ideas, but study the old ones, and then play by putting them together.
Now, the question is if there is any other kind of improvisation at all.
Isn't every improvisation based on musician's previous experience?
Another kind of playing that I witnessed was what I would call 'finger
playing'. People who practice a lot have certain patterns 'engraved' in
their hands, and they insert them in the improvisation automatically
without thinking (or feeling. Well, it's almost the same in music).
    I don't mean that those ways of improvising are bad. Often they
actually sound very cool, and there is no way to tell by listening which
technique one uses (at least for dilettantes like myself). So, this is
more of a theoretical discussion. The main criteria of whether
improvisation is good or not, just like with any other kind of music,
should be the enjoyment of the listener.
                Ilia.
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:50:00 CDT
From:         TBUCK@KNOX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: New Thread

> Many of you have probably had the experience of trying to make a "mix"
> tape, i.e. a tape with songs from many different bands on it.  Many of
> you have also probably noticed that all mix tapes are not created
> equal:  A good mix tape is better than the sum of its individual songs,
> while at times you can have a tape which contains all your favorite
> tunes and yet just doesn't click somehow.  My challenge is:  What is
> the playlist from your best mix tape?

On a similar topic, what are your favorite "various artists" CD's? And I'm
really not refering to those Billboard compilation CD's, or other
compilations made simply to try and sell some top-ten hits to people who
only listen to the radio. A couple of my favorites are:

96 Degrees In The Shade: the single best Reggae compliation I've ever seen.
    I'm not sure this is available anywhere as mine is a promo-only radio
    complilation from Island/Mango.

Rainbow Wariors - Greenpeace: I don't remember the exact title. Double CD.

Nobody's Child - The fundraiser for orphans in eastern Europe.

I'll have to check my CD's to remember more.

                                                       Tom
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:45:11 -0700
From:         "Timothy M. Williams" <twillia@EIS.CALSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: for your ears only

fair 'nuff.

Apologies rendered.

but anyway, viva mozart!
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Subject:  improvisation vs. interpret   
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:01:17 GMT

on improvisation vs. interpreting, i would first say you should compare
improvisation with composing.

In improvisation, there are many things that can happen that are not
possible from composing everything in advance.  On the other hand, there
are obviously things which can happen from works composed in advance
that cannot happen in improvisation.

That is a very simplistic statement, of course.  Most pieces that use
improvisation have certain aspects composed.  Even on Free Jazz, Ornette
had some themes in between the solos.  But when you improvise, everyone
is potentially involved in the music creation.  Aside from putting more
minds into the creation of the music, you have the fact that musical choices are
made in direct response to something that is heard.  I wonder how much
this is done in composition.  In a sense, you cannot compose in realtime.  
It normally takes you longer to write down the notes than the time they make 
their contribution to the sound.  Even if you have an image of a sound in your
head, you still have to go back to it and remember it.  How much can
one remember it identically to the way they first heard it.  
Even so, it isn't always necessary to.  There are a wide variety of
compositional techniques to work on it with in developing material.

Another issue if you are dealing with a non-literate music, I don't see anyway 
for it to develop to any level of sophistication without improvisation.
I think you can see that in Indian classical music as well as jazz.

As for improvisation vs. interpreting, I think music should always sound
as if it is being created anew, so interpeting should have the
improvisational dimension.  It is a mistake to think that all the information 
in a composed piece is on the page.  There is so much governed by tradition,
from the transmission of the tradition from verbal and aural means, not
from the score.  Most people would agree that you cannot notate swing,
and that is true.  But a Stravinsky staccato is different than a Mahler
staccato, and you can't write that on the page.  You pick that up from
playing in ensembles under the direction of people who know how to get
the right staccato.

I think a lot of time when you say a classical musician is stiff
vis a vis rock guitar god #437, it always is stiff when the 
classical musician is trying to play another genre.  Let someone else
try to play his genre and see who is stiff.

Jeff
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
From: jwright@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Ceridwyn)
Subject: Re: Indigo Girls
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:35:34 GMT

"alt.wasted.time" <TIFFANYDE@URVAX.BITNET> writes:

>>While Rites of Passage is the IG's latest and best album, if you truly want to
>>get a feel from where they're coming from, take their studio albums in the
>>order of release: 1987 Strange Fire (re-released 1989), 1989 Indigo Girls,
>>1991 Nomads Indians Saints, 1992 Rites of Passage.  I'm in a rush now, but
>>I'll be VERY VERY glad to answer ANY questions about the Indigo Girls--personal
>>, musical, whatever.

>I'd forgotten about _Strange Fire_.  What's it like?  It is their one album
>I don't have.

_Strange Fire_ is one of my personal favourites.  It has a beautiful remake
of the classic "Get Together" with one of the nicer sounding electric guitar
solos that I've heard.  It also has an earlier version of the song "Land
of Cannan" that was rereleased on their _Indigo Girls_ album.   
P.S. I heard a rumor.  Someone told me that one of the Indigo Girls is married.
  Is there any truth to this?  I never would have guessed it.
  Ceridwyn
  jwright@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu

>later days and sunny rays,
>                          D.T>
>-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
>Derek Tiffany          | TIFFANYDE@URVAX.URICH.EDU | URICH, cuz you gotta be
>University of Richmond | djt0u@aurora.urich.edu    |<= djt{zero}u@aurora...
>-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
>"I have a secret to tell
> from my electrical well
> It's a simple message and Im leaving out
> The whistles and bells."
>                                - They Might Be Giants
-- 
       jCeridwyn                         "I feel like a furrball in
jwright@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu                    the throat of life."
filker/pagan/lesbian/Misty fan                -Mork from Ork-
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:12:00 EDT
From:         "alt.wasted.time" <TIFFANYDE@URVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: It's time for a reality check.

>I would like to know if most people work out the songs note-for-note or
>do as i prefer and Live-on-the-edge every time(of course some songs require
>some working out), but otherwise it gets mechinical and looses it's intensity
>and instead of being fun it becomes work and you play the same solo over and
>over it seems to loose it's "fire" what are your thoughts....Lenny Ray

Definately Live-on-the-edge if you can.  The first time (fairly recently it
was) that I was able to take a song and actually improv around it was
definately way up there on the GMW factor.  So now, most of the (few) things
I write are written out note for note, but based around certain scales I
know so that at a convenient point I can get creative.  Go with the flow and
get creative.  Of course, my keyboardist is a bit anal (aren't they all   :-) )
so he doesn't like it much, but everyone else (esp. the drummer) loves to
free jam.

later days and sunny rays,
                          D.T>
-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
Derek Tiffany          | TIFFANYDE@URVAX.URICH.EDU | URICH, cuz you gotta be
University of Richmond | djt0u@aurora.urich.edu    |<= djt{zero}u@aurora...
-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
"i think i've reached that point
 where every wish has come true
 and tired disguised oblivion
 is everything i do"
                                - The Cure
From: HEROY@LSUVM.BITNET (Paul Heroy)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Epic debut albums - part 2
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:56:32 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:18:41 EDT Michelle May said:
>his-name produced some of Oleta Adam's debut--which, by the way, was an epic
>debut also, IMHO.

Well, I've been holding back on this out of fear of losing any respect I
may have garnered, but I think Bryan Adams' album Reckless was his debut,
and while it certainly ain't original, particularly outstanding, or in any
other way 'epic', it's pretty solid and, following one trend, probably his
best. (Not that *I* would know, I don't have any of his other ones.)

>P.S.  I have to admit (snicker) that I saw the subject line, and for a long
>time I thought we were talking about people who had debut albums on the Epic
>Record Company Label.  Duh!!! 8-)

Ha ha, I saw the start of this thread (which was sans 'Epic' in the subject
line), and since Boston was on Epic, got confused too, so don't feel too dumb
Michelle :)

Paul 'been a little confused this week' Heroy
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:22:32 EST
From:         Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
Subject:      To Paul Heroy (KC remastered).

Paul,

   you mentioned remastered "Lark's Tongues in Aspic". How is remastered
version different from the original (I mean, did R.F. change anything in
the music, or is it just a remix?)

+ About K.C. concert albums: I heard only "USA" and the live recording
in Amsterdam. Is there anything else?
   Ilia.
From: TIFFANYDE@URVAX.BITNET (alt.wasted.time)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Why don't they put Lyrics in CDs ?
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:11:00 GMT
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>Hi. Could somebody out there kindly tell me :
>Why don't they include the lyrics in CDs ?
>I can buy CDs within which the full lyrics are included
>if they are made here in Taiwan. But if they're imported
>from US, there's no any information in most of them.
>Why? Don't you need the printed lyrics to help understanding
>what they're singing ?  :(

Sometimes the lyrics are included, sometimes they are not.  Most major
releases now have something in the CD foldout, though.  Several smaller
labels don't include much stuff in the jacket, though since it costs
extra.

I agree, though that it is kinda nice to have the lyrics.  Of course, there's
always the lyrics server....   :-s

later days and sunny rays,
                          D.T>
-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
Derek Tiffany          | TIFFANYDE@URVAX.URICH.EDU | URICH, cuz you gotta be
University of Richmond | djt0u@aurora.urich.edu    |<= djt{zero}u@aurora...
-----------------------+---------------------------+-------------------------
"I have a secret to tell
 from my electrical well
 It's a simple message and Im leaving out
 The whistles and bells."
                                - They Might Be Giants