HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.fantasy
Keywords: fantasy RFD arts
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:21:55 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <Bxty6p.40F@uunet.uu.net> pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden) writes:
>Proposed Newsgroup's Name
>=========================
> rec.arts.fantasy

This is covered by rec.arts.sf.written. During last years reorganisation
is was hashed out sufficiently, that:

	a) sf in this context stands for speculative fiction
	   and thus contains fantasy
	b) nobody could agree on a dividing line between
	   science fiction and fantasy anyway

In summary: there is no need.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Dave Hayes will not quit
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:18:38 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Nov13.185515.29688@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:

> I was wonder, Mr. Preckshot, are you British?? - the way you spell
> learned (learnt) is, of course the British form (both past and past part)
> of learn

No, I'm not.  But I did spend some years as a Scottish schoolboy.

> anyway, if you are, I can then understand where a great amount
> of your thinking comes from
> 

It comes from a broader education than usually obtained from American
high schools and colleges.  Also from having some introduction to the
British system of crafts as a school boy, having been a machinist/model
builder/technician, airplane mechanic, field engineer in charge of work
crews, spacecraft real-time flight control system team leader and designer,
and safety- or life-critical real-time software consultant.

So, knowing that, where did you think my thinking was coming from?

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: craig@isl.Stanford.EDU (Craig Barratt)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 06:34:02 GMT

In article <zeq1H=&qva@atlantis.psu.edu> mek@guinan.psu.edu (Mark E. Kotanchek) writes:
>In article <BxnGHn.F8u@uunet.uu.net> maurer@nova.stanford.edu (Michael  
>Maurer) writes:
>> This is a formal Request for Discussion on the creation of a new newsgroup
>> called "comp.soft-sys.matlab" (not moderated).
>
>Given the semi-useless MathWorks-moderated users group, a MatLab-specific  
>newsgroup would be tremendous. Since the only competing product (to my  
>knowledge) is MATRIXx/Xmath it may be viable to expand the scope of the  
>group to include MATRIXx as well as MATLAB.

I strongly agree.  I support the new group, provided it includes other
packages like xmath, control-c etc.  The name "comp.soft-sys.matlab"
is ok, since all these commercial packages are based on the original
public-domain program called "matlab".  The purpose of the group could
be changed to:

   The newsgroup 'comp.soft-sys.matlab' would be a forum for discussing 
   issues related to the use of interactive numerical analysis programs
   derived from the original public domain matlab.  This includes Matlab,
   from Mathworks, Inc, and Xmath, from Integrated Systems Inc.

Craig Barratt
craig@isl.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana)
Subject: Re: (IMPORTANT) Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya (NO!)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:03:24 GMT

Sridhar.Venkataraman@launchpad.unc.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman) writes:

>[soc.religion.islam is off the Newsgroups header and news.groups is in.]
>[Followups to news.groups]

>Quoted text left intact for the benefit of news.groups folks.

>M. Saggaf <alsaggaf@Athena.MIT.EDU> writes:
>>An article appeared here from a certain Mr. Mansour Jafri with a
>>caltech address asking people to send their votes about the above
>>group to him. That article is forged and has the WRONG VOTING ADDRESS.
>>It should not have been posted or approved. It has been deemed wrong
>>and invalid by the Usenet newgroups administrator. Please vote NO and
>>send your NO vote to the address:
>>
>>	 rana@ucsu.colorado.edu
>>
>>with the sentence
>>
>>	I vote NO to soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya
>>
>>somewhere in the body of your letter.  You may want add the line
>>
>>	Return-Receipt-To: (your email address)
>>
>>to your message header to get a confirmation of the receipt of your
>>letter and save the confirmation as a proof of your vote.
>>
>>Please VOTE!
>>
>>If you have sent your vote to the wrong address, please vote again.
>>YOUR PREVIOUS VOTE WOULD NOT COUNT. If you have forwarded the message
>>containing the wrong address to a mailing list, please forward this
>>message also so that they may vote again.
>>
>>The voting period expires December 3. Please vote now.
>>
>>Wassalam,
>>
>>/M. Saggaf
>> alsaggaf@athena.mit.edu
>>============================================================
>>
>>[Moderator's Note: this situation is getting out of hand.
>>Actually, it got out of hand long ago.  This is the last
>>article that will be posted to soc.religion.islam on this
>>topic -- Basalat Ali Raja]

>I had hoped not to get into this confusion but this posting expressing the
>open statement of "Vote NO" having been allowed in soc.religion.islam and
>the action of the soc.religion.islam moderator passing off the illegitimate
>CFV as a "straw vote" gives me an impression that there is going to be enough
>noise raised if the official CFV is allowed to stand whether it is going to
>a success or a failure of the proposal. 


I agree with Mr. Sridhar; Such postings expressing open statement of 
casting a "NO VOTE", and being allowed by the moderators of soc.religion.islam
are clear evidence of the mischiefs of the moderators of
soc.religion.islam. Passing "straw vote" by the moderators of 
soc.religion.islam is another of their mischiefs. It is very apparent 
that the moderators of Islam are playing unfair in the whole situation.


:
-- 
Nabeel A. Rana
rana@rintintin.colorado.edu
LOVE FOR ALL : HATRED FOR NONE.
________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:02:33 GMT

andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:
>>I'm not arguing that with you. That's a straw man.
>Then why did you bring it up in the first place?  Or is the whine you
>posted from John Rossi somehow a different, relevant issue?

It was a sample...not the only example.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

      Self justification is worse than the the original transgression.
From: Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.fantasy
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:24:56 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

Re whether r.a.f is feasible and/or desirable:

I'm not convinced by the argument that the dividing line is too
hard to draw and would produce too many flames.  There are many
groups that overlap and have fuzzy borderlines, and they survive.
Why can't
        a. clearcut fantasy threads be on r.a.f
        b. clearcut sf threads be on r.a.sf.*
        c. borderline threads be cross-posted
?

This is how (e.g.) comp.theory and sci.logic seem to work, and I haven't
seen any real problems.  Or are f/sf advocates really that much more
ornery and obnoxious than everyone else? :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk      Computing Lab, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Systems design flourishes best when it is half a trade and half an art...
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Dave Hayes may be right (was Re: To keep the r.m.s rename...)
From: juhan@chem.ut.ee (Juhan Poldvere)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:33:26 GMT
Organization: Tartu University, Department of Chemistry

randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
> 
> It should be the same on the UseNet.  A parental figure (yes, before you
> ask, I *am* in favor of paternalism) should show all the little
> kiddies how to play on the 'Net without getting hurt, or pissing off
> the big boys who might use flamethrowers on them.
[...]
> Look...let me make an analogy...assume I wanted to use Sterling Memorial
> Library (Yale's main library).  Now, at the beginning of the year
> there are tours that show you the main parts and tell you where to
> get things.  There is a brochure.  There are signs posted.  So would I
> be within my rights to barge in and just yell, "Hey where can I find
> some books around here?".  No.  The knowledge of how to use the
> library was there, and was made available to me.  If I didn't take
> advantage of it, that is my problem.

Maybe a certain posting in news.announce.newuser should have one more point
listed under "WHAT USENET IS NOT":

*. Usenet is not a house with one entrance.

I think many enter Usenet through other doors, or even via a broken window,
where there just don't happen to be brochures or tours.  Some don't come at
the beginning of the year, either. Some have no pater, some even don't have
a parental figure. Luckily, we usually don't just yell.

> But we can make analogies until Hell freezes over.  The problem is
> that users are not willing to go through the learning process.  They
> want instant gratification.

The problem, and the good thing, is that we differ. We want (instant) grati-
fication, but what gratifies us differs. We need different approaches.

>                              So, what can we do?
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1. Collect info
     Anybody made an inventory of all complaints in this (?) thread?
     Their causes?
2. Think it over
     Now, this is hard. Better leave it till n-next week :-)
3. Define the problem(s)
4. Offer solutions
     Due to the character of Usenet we probably can't SOLVE anything,
     but it might be possible to IMPROVE the situation.
5. Make a decision
6. Act or not act

In the case of the traffic analogy:  We as parental figures  might consider
a)building a fence b)putting out warning signs c)limiting speed  d)advising
our kids to choose another route d)advising that traffic take another route
e)building a tunnel f)doing nothing g)...

For the put-up-or-shut-up-gang:
> 3. Usenet is not fair.
[...]
>                                  Who's going to do this?  Neither
>    you nor I, that's certain.
For those who take the chores, my deepest thanks.
--
Juhan Poeldvere, ES5QX                | juhan@chem.ut.ee
Tartu University, Dept. of Chemistry  | fax:   7+01424+35440
2 Jakobi St., EE-2400, Tartu, Estonia | voice: 7+01424+35429
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ian@nasser.eecs.nwu.edu (Ian Sutherland)
Subject: Re: Is there a general fault-tolerance news group?
Keywords: fault tolerance
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:43:41 GMT

In article <1edtloINN3k0@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
>But this depends on your definition of architecture. Currently, comp.arch
>does seem to consist primarily of discussion at the hardware leevel but my
>definition of architecture is much broader; architecture is the subject of
>how a particular class of systems works and under this definition then 
>comp.arch would be the logical place.

That's your definition, but (1) that's not the definition that seems to
be used in comp.arch, and (2) that's not the definition that I've found
to be common in the EE/CS community.  The definition I've found to be
common in the EE/CS community fits the current subject matter of
comp.arch perfectly.  With respect to this notion of architecture,
there is a LOT of significant work in fault tolerance that takes place
above that level.
-- 
Ian Sutherland
ian@eecs.nwu.edu

Sans Peur
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Controversy about Ahmadiyya Newsgroup
Date: 21 Nov 92 14:47:14 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <aftab.721925075@nsisrv>, aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:
 > 
 > 	Given all the controversy over the Ahmadiyya news group, my
 > impression is that the news administration has a good chance to review
 > the rules for allocating the new news groups.

"Allocating" new news groups Ollie? 

 > 	The news adiministration seems to have a rule according to which
 > a news group cannot be constructed even if there are a lot of people
 > interested in reading/writing to it because there could be another
 > group of people who do not want it to be created - for reasons that have
 > nothing to do with the Internet.

1) Usenet != Internet. Learn that before continuing. 
2) Namespace requirements are IMPORTANT when new newsgroups are being
   discussed. Improperly placed groups won't be easy to find by the very
   people they are designed to serve. If the name doesn't fit, it will
   be voted against by what some call 'namespace purists'. 


 >  	In Pakistan, and may be also other Muslim countries, Ahmadies are

  [ ... Balance of arguments citing conditions in Pakistan removed ... ]

This is Usenet, not Pakistan. This argument has no bearing here. 

> 	Now here is my suggestion: the administration may make a quota
> about how many groups it wants to create each "term".  The groups should
> be created based only on the readership and not on the opposition. Software
> can be written to monitor which group is surviving and which not. Those
> who do not survive should be simply taken out. 

This is a joke, right?

Who will write this software? How will they make it fit all the many
platforms running news software? Who decides the 'quota'? Who decides
what a 'term' is? Who decides at which point a group is deemed to have
not 'survived'? Who is 'the administration'? 

> The purpose of this posting is to take my views to the forum and not to
> inform anyone about the condition of Ahmadies in Pakistan - 

But....?

> for that
> purpose the Pakistani Constitution Amendment number 2 and the president 
> ordinance 298C will be more helpful.

I thought you might get around to something like that. 

> Sincerely
> 
> aftab ahmad			"who else's views these can be"

Seperate your political and ideological arguments from any dealings with
the workings of Usenet. Usenet is NOT here to serve your adgenda or
anyone elses, much as some may wish it. 

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: RF(Informal)D: Standard RFD/CFV Format
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:16:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.050533.18672@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com  
(Rob Strom) writes:
> I had implicitly assumed that the guidelines
> also required Subject lines to be more specific
> than the guidelines actually require of votes.
> 
The guidelines do not seem to cover content much and format at all. That's  
a real problem.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Distribution: world
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
	<BxDttn.1B1@unix.amherst.edu> <21886@rpp386.lonestar.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:52:38 -0800

In <21886@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org 
				(John F. Haugh II) writes:

>In article <BxDttn.1B1@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu 
				(Tim Pierce) writes:

>>
>>I would and I do.

>I find it so incredibly insulting that you would suggest everyone on
>the net wade through this newsgroup just to prevent some re-org freak
>(have we all forgotten K*nt Paul Dolan so quickly?) from running amok?

	John, if you had of read the post, Tim was refering to
news.announce.newgroups. Not exactly a high volume newsgroup. 

>Just the fact that so many messages are posted with this subject line
>should be a clue.  The re-org was a bad idea.  

	This is only cliamed so far by one person. Just because people keep
following up on the same subject line doesn't make it true.  

>Who ever did it should admit they made a mistake and just be done with it.

	Whoever did it followed the only rules that exist on how to do it
correctly. If the rules need changing, that hardly calls for an apology
by the vote taker. 
	As a small data point, the last time something like this happened,
didn't the person who missed a reorganisation vote, and fought to get an
old group name back later post an article admitting that they might have
made a mistake?

	Personally, I think every group on the net should be under the
manga.* hierarchy, as manga encompases everything, and therefore all
groups are badly placed. Stay tuned for the manga.windows.* re-org,
coming soon.


-- 
                    John Henders              " Read the guideline, Luke"
           Just another elitist Usenet user        Obi Wan Spaf
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: About the elitism in news.groups
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:39:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.184424.2747@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
> It's easy. Get a news feed from a commercial source. Obtain C-News from  
> anonymous ftp (or even Compuserve). Either follow some explicit  
> instructions you run across regarding the installation process (these  
> exist) and/or hire a local UNIX expert to install it for you. Tah dum!

I have no problem whatsoever excluding people in that position from the
newsgroup name-space management process. They don't know enough to provide
any useful input.

And I have no problem with any actions you might take to change the behaviour
of the commercial service providers in question.
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?
From: adam@sw.stratus.com (Mark Adam)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Would you ALL like a demonstration? (was Re: Dave Hayes may be right)
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:41:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: paix.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov15.130350.12577@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
> How would you like me to post one article per day to the top 100 groups
> in each newsgroup, inviting everyone over to news.groups with a subject
> line like "DANGER! YOUR group may go away."? 

do it!

two possible outcomes:

1) people see how easy it is for one person to be a royal pain in the bandwidth,

2) nothing much happens because people are sheep.

hasn't it ever amazed you that with the huge readership news has there are rarely
more than 400 votes in any given cfv? if you think the sheep realy wanted to be
involved but didn't know how, then by all means try to get their attention. the
main lesson you'll learn is that you're howling into wind.

-- 

mark ----------------------------
(adam@paix.sw.stratus.com)	|	My opinions are not those of Stratus.
				|	Hell! I don`t even agree with myself!

	"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad."
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Elmo)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: (IMPORTANT) Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya (NO!)
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:15:56 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: The Pentateuch
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

Sridhar.Venkataraman@launchpad.unc.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman) writes:
> M. Saggaf <alsaggaf@Athena.MIT.EDU> writes:
>>An article appeared here from a certain Mr. Mansour Jafri with a
>>caltech address asking people to send their votes about the above
>>group to him. That article is forged and has the WRONG VOTING ADDRESS.
>>It should not have been posted or approved. It has been deemed wrong
>>and invalid by the Usenet newgroups administrator. Please vote NO and
>>send your NO vote to the address:
>>
>>	 rana@ucsu.colorado.edu
>>
>>with the sentence
>>
>>	I vote NO to soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya
> 
> I would request for a recall of the official CFV and the reissuing of a 
> proper CFV with a neutral votetaker.

	I agree.  I think it's -imperative- that this vote be stopped NOW,
reorganized, and resubmitted.
 	I think it's clear that the fraud that has been perpetrated
--on whichever side, I don't care--has muddied the waters sufficiently
that nobody really knows what's going on.
-- 
"Except during the nine months before he draws his first breath, no man manages
his affairs as well as a tree does."--George Bernard Shaw                      
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)