HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall)
Subject: Re: Entertainment and Effectiveness III
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:40:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.005018.1@vax1.umkc.edu> eputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>
>Okay, I give up...  What is so darn special about a stupid company front?!?
>Let's face it, the things are soooooo obvious when they happen almost to the
>point of being anticlimatic (at least for me).  I know that I am going to 
>insult several readers now, but ...  I personally believe that the only reason
>that company fronts are still used is that it is the only time when the general
>audience knows when to clap.  They are also one of the few times that the
>drill is highly accessible to average people.  Let's face it, with some of the
>drill currently being displayed (Star, Cadets, Blue Knights) you REALLY have
>to watch and remember what pictures and motions have been made.  How many 
>"Zingalli inverting eights" have most people caught?  Probably none.  But,
>form a mostly straight line the length of the field and march slowly towards
>the audience and the stadium comes down.
>

The only tough thing in a company front is the fact that every person in
the corps must take the exactly same size step.  If only one person's 
step size is of, the entire line will (should) be skewed because each person
dresses to the two persons on one side.  Each person tries to make sure 
that the only person they can see to their dress side the person next to them.
If you know that the person next to you is out, you still should dress on
his mark (otherwise you and he both didn't dress the line).  This is the
gist of how it was explained to me in '88.  Maybe the dressing thing is a
little out-dated given the fact that this soulds more like the old tick
system, but this is how we where taught.

>Eric Putnam

--David
-- 
 Spirit '88      |"So get off your butt and ride."      |     _,-~o     |
 ?????? '93      |"It's the motor that wins the races." |    _-\_<,     |
                 |               E-mail ddm@wpi.wpi.edu |   (*)/'(*)    |
From: matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: What next? (Re: Archive of this newsgroup ...)
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:55:12 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Division of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, UC Davis

Perhaps this is also a good time to throw around some ideas for
music we'd like to hear played next year.  These postings must
reach at least a few show designers (even if indirectly).

Tom Matthews
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Far-out VK!!!
From: eputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:52:52 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


As per requests for new threads in the channel...

I think that a great idea for a show would be for the Velvet Knights taking
another "Magical Mystery Tour," but this time tour the solar system.  How?
Holst's "The Planets."  Not to start another flame war and debate over what
constitutes "real" ..., but I think that based on this past year VK is moving
toward more challenging music and The Planets would allow them to continue
this while allowing for some fun.  Just think of all of the "little green men,"
Star Trek humor, ...  And hey, if you thought that land shark attacks were 
great, wait till you see the beast chomping on planets.

A simple idea whose time has come.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: drumming techniques
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:55:40 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

jerger@d0msu7.fnal.gov writes:

> The difference between what you can (within variations) call "corps style"
> drumming and what you might learn as a drumset or orchestral player often
> makes for some conflict. I know an extremely good set teacher who goes 
> apoplectic when he gets a "corps drummer" in his practice room, and at least
> partially for good reason - a lot of marching drummers (particularly
> high school players taught by  former high school players taught by corps
> players) have been taught a very stiff, wristy, restrictive manner of
> playing. So when my friend the set player starts to teach them how to
> fully use their arms and fingers, without unnecessary tension, they often
> have a lot of bad habits to overcome.
>     On the other hand, the marching idiom has a lot of requirements such
> as uniformity, visual effect, use of high tension heads, etc., which 
> result in certain logical adjustments to the playing style; and IMHO
> I don't quite buy the line of my set teacher friend that all such things are
> b.s. to be abolished as "impediments to true drumming technique." They're an 
> integral part of what makes marching drumlines unique, and I don't think that
> playing within certain style restrictions necessarily has to destroy good 
> technique. Anyway, enough said on this....

Set drumming has a completely different set of goals than corps drumming.
My experience is teaching jazz drumming, and I too remember having great
difficult getting "corps" students (I had a few) to "loosen up".  That's
critical in jazz drumming, because the goals there are much more related to
learning the variety of appropriate tones.  Many of the tones cannot be
achieved with a rigidly consistent, wrist-oriented stroke.  Variation of
timing and dynamics is also essential.  I remember when one of my "corps"
students was playing in the local college jazz band, and I asked the director
how he was doing.  The director said "he sounds like he's playing in a marching
band".

On the other hand, it's probably physically easier for a corps drummer to learn
to play jazz drumset than vice-versa.  I would have to acquire chops I never
had in order to play in a corps.  There are also examples of fine professional
musicians that started in corps (Steve Gadd comes to mind).  Having such
great chops MUST be an asset.

There isn't a right and a wrong, here.  It's just apples and oranges.
Jack DeJonette couldn't make the snare line in probably any of the top-25
corps, but I also doubt that the top corps snare drummers could hack a
jazz gig in a local nightclub.  Both would have to practice hard to learn
the other techniques, and they'd also both have a lot to learn, stylistically.

                                        Scott


Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt)
Subject: Original Corps Compositions (was: Drumcorps Sandwich)
Summary: Who has done them? Which were effective? Should we have more?
Organization: StorageTek, Louisville, CO
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:40:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.052334.2593@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sradeker@nyx.cs.du.edu (scott radeker) writes:
>I agree with your reasoning up to a point, however, you forgot to test the
>other limiting case.  Certainly a corp which plays "Mary Had a Little Lamb"
>while standing in a box formation won't win the DCI championships,
>or any other contest for that matter.

I finally remembered what was interesting about using "Mary Had a Little Lamb"
in this discussion -- Sun Coast Sound used this in their Contemporary Child
show. Needless to say, it was not the classical arrangement (whatever that
would be!) and they were not standing in a box formation.

This Sun Coast program, and their Florida Suite program, were both mostly
original compositions. Question: what are the other pieces composed for drum
corps? Which are people's favorites? Are original compositions A Good Thing
for the activity, or do they tend to be too expensive/obscure/etc?

--phil
pae@blackcat.stortek.com
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: koreis@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Koreis)
Subject: Short Memories
Summary: Vanguard & Holst
Reply-To: koreis@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:33:04 GMT

Okay, so there is mention of the Cavies performing Holst's "Planets" in
the late Eighties.  Anyone else remember even farther back with SCV
performing exerpts with a dril which included circles floating around on
the field to represent planets?


Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Drum corps and the Media
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:48:35 GMT

In article <16550@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews) writes:
> 
> The point I'd like to make is that drum corps deserves and needs
> media exposure, but it needs the kind of exposure that acquaints
> viewers with their entertainment value and motivates people to
> get off their couches and come to a live performance.  
> Most media producers have misconceptions that work against
> good P.R. for drum corps.  Next year, invite your local news anchor
> to a competition!

This has been done with Drums Along the Rockies for the past couple of years. 
The anchorman for Channel 2 News even acted as the announcer for part of the 
show before he had to leave for the news broadcast.  There was even some
coverage for the show by Channel 2, but I don't know how much.  Channel 2 even
had commercials promoting the show about 2 weeks in advance.

The promotions seemed to work in gaining attention to the show.  The one
example I can give of this came when I met a total stranger at a bus stop who
saw a Blue Knights shirt I was wearing.  He told me that he had seen BK
performing downtown as a promotion for DATR and had also seen the commercials
on TV.  Through all this he became fairly curious about the show and drumcorps
in general and wanted a little more information.  After we talked he said would
probably go to the show.

I've also seen some instances where shows may not have been promoted well. 
I've encoutered people in cities where we had just done a show who knew about
and liked drumcorps, but didn't even realize that there was a show in their town
or thought the show occurred on another date.  

						Charles Holt
From: R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Short Memories
Date: 3 Sep 1992 11:10:43 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

koreis@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Koreis) wrote in:
Subject: Short Memories
 
>Okay, so there is mention of the Cavies performing Holst's "Planets" in
>the late Eighties.  Anyone else remember even farther back with SCV
>performing exerpts with a dril which included circles floating around on
>the field to represent planets?
 
That was in 1980, the last year SCV placed 7th. It was a ground-
breaking drill, the first to do modern assymetrical drill (not
just rotating the axis of symmetry--1979 27th Lancers popularized
that by doing it in their off-the-line and again in Danny Boy,
but 1978 Bridgemen did it in their closer "Requiem for the last
whale" something the Crossmen should have done this year :-).
However, the crowd and judges didn't get it.  Too bad.
 
Speaking of Crossmen, they also moved planets around in their
closer "Superman".  (SCV did Jupiter, BTW)
 
Vince
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: halk@solbourne.com (Hal Koshak)
Subject: Re: Duct Tape
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:30:54 GMT

In article <Bu0psM.49o@wpi.WPI.EDU> ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall) writes:
>Back in '88 there was a rumor (considered common knowledge fact then) that
>BD's snare line used duct tape to 'quiet' the dirty players in the line.
>The rumor was that about three or four (out of the 10) a year had the old
>tape job (even '86).  The pit people from '88 ran into a guy who played
>with Spirit until the end of winter rehearsals when BD called and he left.
>Anyways, they casually asked to see his bottom head, and he had the tape job.
>My question is:
>(1) did they do this, and

>(2) if they did, wouldn't the judges know and therefore not give the same
>    amount of points he would if a line of 10, playing, where clean?

Adding duct tape doesn't totally mute a snare, just makes it maybe half
as loud as one that isn't.  Mistakes can still be heard, but probably
not from the stands.  There certainly is little dignity in this practice,
especially for the person that has it done to them.  On the other hand,
it seems to be less questionable than an auxiliary member marching with
their arm in a sling.  The judge wouldn't necessarily know that somone
is taped out unless they carefully listened to each person during a
given passage, but with marching techniques what they are, that could
be difficult.  If they were standing near the line they would still
hear an error.  Of course, without ticks, maybe they wouldn't remember it...

>(3) Also, this just doesn't seem quite fair to the lines who marched seven,
>    eight, or even ten and who all played?  These lines would have to
>    water down their book more than BD.

Remember, they are still playing and can still be heard.  At least this
was my experience with '70s equipment.  Can anyone add to this?

- Hal
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: dci
From: fath1@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:41:23 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Aug26.040324.29229@news.eng.convex.com> mccrorey@convex.com (Martin McCrorey) writes:
>Pardon my ignorance, but can someone please tell me
>1.  Places and scores of corps at DCI

Can someone repost this?  I don't want to write it all in. But from memory
I can say this much:

1. Cavaliers	97.5
2. Cadets	97.0
3. Star		96.7
4. Blue Devils	95.3?
5. Madison	94.?
6. Crossmen	92.2
7. SCV		91.8
8. Phantom	91.5
9. BKnights	90.0
10. VK		88.?
11. Blucoats	
12. Freelancers
13. Glassmen
14. Boston
15. Sky Ryders
16. Spirit
17. Marauders
18. Dutch Boy

>2.  Where is DCI in 1993

In Jackson, Mississippi

>3.  When are shows scheduled in Dallas for 1993

DCI will not announce the 1993 schdule until at least next April.  We all
have to wait until then.

>
>Thanks!
>DMcCrorey


-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael Fath		fath1@husc.harvard.edu
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115				**Enjoy life!              
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon)
Subject: VKs latest frontier
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 19:20:38 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

jvbutera@grad09.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera) responds to my post:
>
>In article <Sep01.150035.11835@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> gordons@CS.ColoState.EDU (vahl scott gordon) writes:
>>eputnam@vax1.umkc.edu says:
>>
>>> toward more challenging music and The Planets would allow them to continue
>>
>>Excerpts from more commonly-known passages of the Planets (Mars and Jupiter)
>>could also be thrown in.
>>
>>> A simple idea whose time has come.
>
>And gone.  The Cavies played pieces of the planets a few years ago (88ish 
>anyone help me?)
>
>>
>>It's a great idea!
>>                               Scott 
>
>And it was a great show by the Cavaliers (Now that I think, it may
>have been 87)

That was 1985.  But the show themes would be RADICALLY different.
And while the original poster was suggesting that the whole show be
"Planets", I was merely suggesting throwing a couple of the themes
in along with the rest of the outer space music.  The shows would
be SO different that it's not true that "it's been done".  It hasn't.

Plus, were the Cavaliers copying the Vanguard (1980)?  Was the Vanguard
copying the Muchachos (1975)?  Those corps also played "Jupiter".

Scott

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: aa626@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Pugel)
Subject: Explanation please
Reply-To: aa626@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Pugel)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:06:05 GMT


What exactly is DCI?  I know it is drum corps and bugles, but where
does it rank in the heirarchy of marching bands?

My idea of the version of the hierarchy is:

	College (King)
	High School (Queen)
	Jr. High  (Prince)

Where does DCI fit into the hierarchy?  Also, what are the
requirements to join a DCI corps?   Is there age limits or what?
Is it volunteer or do the musicinans get paid or what?

Also are there any DCI corps in the Cleveland area?
-- 



	JUSTICE EVOLVES ONLY AFTER INJUSTICE IS DEFEATED
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Original Corps Compositions (was: Drumcorps Sandwich)
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:45:31 GMT

pae@blackcat.stortek.com (Phil Earnhardt) writes:

>This Sun Coast program, and their Florida Suite program, were both mostly
>original compositions. Question: what are the other pieces composed for drum
>corps? Which are people's favorites? Are original compositions A Good Thing
>for the activity, or do they tend to be too expensive/obscure/etc?

The 1985 Florida Suite was *entirely* original (with the exception of
about 15 seconds of "When You Wish Upon a Star".)  If you listen
closely, you can hear influences by Synergy and some nameless Cuban salsa
band (Robert recorded this off a Cuban radio station.)

I didn't realize how neat this was until after the season was over.  The
staff stressed to us all season long that we would have to work harder
because people wouldn't remember our tunes and "whistle them while
walking out of the stadium."  It turned out, that a lot of our music was
"catchy" enough that people *DID* remember it from one performance to
the next.  (We were at a show in WV and one of the Brass judges pissed
off Spirit's horn staff because he was whistling "Frolic at the Beach"
as he walked into the critique.)

The 1988 Suncoast show was a collection of children's songs with a
couple of original themes thrown.  Once again, mostly original.

Actually one of the biggest reasons we played an "all-original" book in
1985 was to avoid any copyright infringements and/or royalty fees.  So
in the long run it was cheaper to perform an original book than an
adapted book.

Later,
Bob
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: odavid@watson.ibm.com (David Owens)
Subject: Re: Boston in 14th? 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:07:31 GMT
Reply-To: odavid@watson.ibm.com (David Owens)
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
> In article <1992Aug21.170652.23655@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>,
tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater) writes:
> > 
> > Can anybody defend Boston Crusaders' 14th place finish?  I saw them
> > in prelims and have no idea why they were that high.  I thought Marauders,
> > Spirit, and especially Sky Ryders were POINTS better than them.  Boston's
> > show did nothing for me and I, and the people around me, were shocked
> > by their score.  
> > 
> > Granted we all think differently about the placements, but does anyone
> > disagree with my opinion of Boston?

Which subcaption(s) do you disagree with?

Anyone who claims that this corps is better than that corps, or this
corps should have won, etc has to keep something in mind... 
From your seat in the stands (or your couch) you see and hear
a very small fraction of what all the judges see and hear.  You have
almost no idea what the field judges are evaluating.  

Also, the judges are evaluating the corps within well defined guidelines.
What may impress you most about a corps may get no credit at
all on a judges sheet.  There is no "volume" subcaption.  There is no
"size of horn line" subcaption.  (We had to remind a few judges of
this this summer :)

The average fan's evaluation is usually most colored by what would
fall into the GE captions.  Add that to the fact that an ex-drummer
will probably be watching the drum line the most, an ex-guard member
will be watching the guard the most, etc... and it doesn't surprise me
that the crowd often disagrees with the judges.

> 
> Well, I thought Boston deserved the placement they got.  It may be
that I just
> preferred their music to the Sky Ryders and especially Spirit.  Sky was very
> boring to me this year and Spirit had a very weak hornline-in terms of
power-in
> my opinion.  There might be something to say for a little politics
here, too. 
> Boston has been 17th and 16th for the last few years.  Always just
getting into
> the top 17 for semi's.  Maybe it was their turn to move up a little.

Boston finished in 14th in 87...  I don't think politics helped Boston
at all this year.

> 
> It might also, from a judges point of view, have been that the music was both
> accessible (because SCV had played it so well in ?87?) and difficult.  The
> judges probably enjoyed the music and rewarded it's selection.  Not
> neccessarily how well it was played, but that it was "good" music. 
The judges
> decide what is "good" music for drum corps.  So, that might be a thought(s).
> 
> IRC nick-BlueDevil

Boston was rewarded for a well constructed demanding show, a musical, 
well-controlled horn line, a clean drum line (marching an insane drill), 
and a clean, expressive colorguard.

Of course I may not be the most objective person in the world in this
case... but I tried.

Dave Owens, BAC member 85,87,88, staff 91,92
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jgriffin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jennifer B Griffin)
Subject: Rumors
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:51:45 GMT


	Is it too early to start rumors about what corps will
be playing next year?  Everyone on the net seems to be s
speculating about potential music, how about the real thing?

	I heard that the Bluecoats are going back to the 
swing jazz (yeah!) and that Star is doing something along
the lines of Mexican jazz.  Does anyone know anything else?

	This is my first time posting, but I feel like I 
know half the posters to this net.  I've been reading it all
summer.  I'm ready to start adding my two cents. :)
From: dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Drum corps and the Media
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:42:30 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

cdoser@bcsaic.boeing.com (Cathy Doser) writes:

>I completely agree with you on this Michael. It has been one of my major
>gripes with DCI for nearly 20 years. Why aren't there news releases to
>the major news services and papers? Why don't they do more to promote
>the activity that they make their money from? I know that they could
>do a much better job then they presently do.

>As to NBC, it is true that the production company only rents the trailer
>from NBC, so there isn't much hope in that direction.
>What might be a good avenue is to start writing to Ted Turner and
>promote it as a family oriented show that he would want to cover
>on TBS or such. He could conceivably carry the regionals too! What
>does everyone think of that?

  I think that this would be a great idea.  He seems likely to be
the one to grab onto since he goes out on a limb and brings us the ill 
fated "Goodwill Games" (not a flame).  Just think of what he could do
to lift Spirit's spirits! (no pun intented).

  Hell, I would be happy if Nickolodean (spelling ?) would carry a
regional.  After all, it is a youth activity for the most part (not my
intention to exclude senior corps or DCA telecasts).  Speaking of which
I don't recall a DCA contest ever being telecast?