HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: 2nd Merlin Tarot Workshop
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:03:30 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep30.171847.5383@gdr.bath.ac.uk> mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D 
>Burdorf) writes:
>

>
>>   Could it be that he doesn't have good answers for some of your 
>>   questions?
>
>can you think of another reason? did he give another reason?
>

No.  He didn't even mention that he got my letter, but I slipped
it under his door, so he had to.  It was like this classical
British way of avoiding unpleasent situations by pretending
that it never happened.  He just pretended that he never got
my letter.  Pretty wierd.

Chris
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: EVIL and "dualism"
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:00:37 GMT

In article 1ahgrfINNark@early-bird.think.com, cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes:
> In article <1992Oct1.205455.25387@shearson.com>, scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis) writes:
> 
> Without God, everyone would be out of business.
> 
> Without Satan, LeVay would be out of business.
> 
> Since God was around long before "Satan" ever showed up, LeVay's quote
> is nonsensical.
> 
> 	-Christopher


my point was that without the term good the term evil is unnecessary as well as 	with the term evil than good would not be needed ...

 it has to do with the law of opposites ... or Opposing Forces ...

u cant have one without the other .... 

  Steve C.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: braca2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (BRAY CHRISTOPHER)
Subject: Re: EVIL and "dualism"
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 10:04:56 GMT

cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes:

>Since God was around long before "Satan" ever showed up, LeVay's quote
>is nonsensical.

Only if you are Christian.

Thou art God
God is naught
Thou is all.


hook

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: alt.magick support group
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:39:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.164554@tiger1.prime.com> jasonp@tiger1.prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.112637.13343@ncsu.edu>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>> And the 12-step programs seek to overcome dependence on
>> externals and to help each person establish a sense of personal responsibility
>> (also in my experience... groups vary widely).  
>
>And Overcome dependence on externals? But... a 12-step program is 
>an external, which people depend on to help them out of their problems.
>And they do seem to depend on it...I have seen people going to
>similar programs long after it is clear (both to outsiders,
>and to themselves) to see the program isn't helping. These aren't
>stupid people...either, they are people who believe that it is the
>*program* which works, which helps them to solve their problems,
>such that they cannot do it on their own. 

Well many people who go to 12-step meetings are addicts, after all, and 
addiction isn't dependent on intelligence, and someone can become addicted
to the program just as well as they can to anything else.  But if they're
"working the program," I think they aren't likely to do that.

>> I also think that every family is dysfunctional to some extent.  No parent is
>
>This is the most insane nonsensicle sentence I've seen since the last
>time I've seen it. It's not you, it's the garbage many psychoanalysts/
>councilors spew, and you have picked up on. 

From my own observations of people, I believe that all families are 
dysfunctional to some extent.  Our society encourages dysfunctional families
(encourages us to hide our anger, for instance, especially women).

>There is a new-found
>obsession with dysfunctionalism in this country...with many people's
>worries exagurated given that it is 'the norm'. 

To a point, I actually agree with you here.  But I think people are mistaking
the labelling with what's behind it.  I mean I think people are put off by
the labelling... some people seem to just label a problem and then use that
labelled problem a something to blame their unhappiness on instead of
working at the problem.  *Everyone* has problems.  To ignore that trivializes
people.


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: alt.magick con
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:03:52 GMT

cipher@lacerta.unm.edu (Rev. J. B. Bell) writes:

>Along these lines, I'd like to propose a alt.magick.con.  I think
>we've gotten big enough at last, and of course I'm dying to meet
>various folks.  I don't have the kind of place to host such a thing,
>and in fact I don't recommend Philly (no offense to other residents),
>but I could certainly make it to various places around the continent
>(preferably closer of course, as my budget's limited).

>So, what do you all say?  Proposals for a place?  Stupid idea?  What?

Well, do you mean a con at a hotel, or what?  How many people are you
envisioning?  

As for locations, Urbana, Illinois is fairly central in the US.  And it's 
awfully convenient for me. :-)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: EVIL and "dualism"
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:32:03 GMT

     The concept of evil can most easily be defined by sin. Sin, is quite 
simply defined by Aquinas, not knowing one's proper place on the order/chaos 
continuum. The continuum, as defined by Aquinas, is something like this:


       Order(god)---------------------------------------------Chaos

As one traverses towards order, one becomes more god like, as one traverses 
towards Chaos, one becomes less ordered, less being, if you will. (Taoists 
see this as a circle, rather than a straight line. The Tao symbol correctly 
equates absolute chaos with absolute order, thus resolving the true duality 
as you were mistakenly taking about in terms of good and evil.)
    Sin, or evil, is the belief that one should become more godlike, or even 
displace god (or gods, as you would have it.) This is Satan's mistake. (See 
Paradise Lost for a good understanding of where Satan fits on the continuum.)
    In Magick, it really depends on your goals. If one wishes to become 
closer to god (kether) one must be a fit container to accept God. The 
Sephiroth on the tree of life are aspects of the divinity. Understanding and 
allowing these manifestations to come into the self means that one must be 
humble, at least in spirit. This is not to say that one cannot exercise 
power over another, through, for example Hod. But this would necessarily 
mean overstepping ones bounds, and entering into a sinful state, playing 
god, as it were. In order to practice magick in a state of sinlessness, one 
must be as follows:

                        God                           God
                        +++                           +++
perfect state           ---            usual state    +++
(graceful and           Man            (sinful)       Man
blessed)                +++                           ---
                        ---                           --- 
                        Nature                        Nature 

God, the divinity, is positive(for lack of a better word.) Man, in his best 
state, is negative, i.e., accepting and humble. This allows man (as 
positive, Works) to perform works of Art (magick) on nature. (miracles, 
etc.) Christ and Moses, some say, were exposed to the Merkabah mysteries.
Pride will get you nowhere!

                       Sean Jeffers Mc Nair
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: dis-ease
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:08:00 GMT

I have a friend who uses REHKI(sic) and therapeutic touch ... for most ailments on himself and others ..

 Steve C>

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: brenda@wpi.WPI.EDU (brenda)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: RE: EVIL!
Date: 7 Oct 1992 01:31:00 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


a couple years ago i heard this really neat theory about where the dark side
of humans came from... it was supposedly someone's religion thesis.
like i said it was a couple years ago, and i am not exactly well read in the 
area of the bible, so no nit picking flames please:

when cain was sent to live with the apes after he killed able, he reproduced 
with them.  hence, this would explain the 'evolution' of apes to human forms, 
as the ape-humans mixed with humans, and the physical ape part slowly faded..
however, the thesis proposed that the evil, bad part of cain (and the primitive
animal nature of the ape) stayed, which would give every human today both
bad and good sides... some more varied than others...  
i believe that the humans of that time were supposed to live for hundreds of 
years, and perhaps this is why lifespan eventually grew shorter, and disease
could grab hold of people easier...

just one arguement, of course...

brenda



-- 
brenda@wpi.wpi.edu    "I've been singin' the blues ever since the world     
152 West St. Apt 2     began..."
792-3243                                      ~ Jim Morrison
****************************************************************************
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: evil and "dualism"
Date: 4 Oct 92 01:34:06 GMT

Hello,

mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR) writes...

> The first letter of the bible indicates that satan was around long 
> before god, silly! Try a good interlinear text, and you'll see!

Hmmm?   "B" as in Bereshith?
        "E" as in En Arche?
        "I" as in In the beginning?

Or are we missing a really good joke?
____________________________________________________________________________

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan Mussell ~)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: 2nd Merlin Tarot Workshop
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:35:10 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA


I also would really enjoy seeing Stewart's suggestions for meditation on
tarot cards.

Morgan mussell    mmussell@mcd.intel.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Toe Dipping
From: ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 22:57:50 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand

I have seen that there are some extremely erudite contributers here. Now 
would someone out of all this erudition inform me as to the location of 
the psychic centre in the human body?

ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto)
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: alt.magick support group
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:06:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep29.112637.13343@ncsu.edu>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes...

This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.

I'm sure you can find a more appropriate group for this.

- Peggy -   


>I understand some of the suspicion and annoyance with support groups.  However,
>I've personally benifitted from a 12-step program as have several fine people 
>I know.  It helps, in my experience, just to know that other people have some
>similar experiences.  And the 12-step programs seek to overcome dependence on
>externals and to help each person establish a sense of personal responsibility
>(also in my experience... groups vary widely).  
> 
>I get annoyed by self-help books because I think they suggest that there are
>quick fixes.  Living and growing are a process, a lifelong one at that.  And
>it sure helps me to have people give me a hand or a shoulder on ocassion.
>It also helps me to retreat way far into myself.  See, the only person who can
>deal with my "problems" is me.  The 12-step programs don't suggest otherwise.
>And I think the world would be a better place if more people took a really
>good look at themselves... love for others, unselfish and mature love, starts
>with love for self as a foundation.  And (once again in my experience) love
>for self is hard to come by in our society.
> 
>I also think that every family is dysfunctional to some extent.  No parent is
>perfect.  I'm sure all (or most) parents do the best they can and truly love
>their children.  And 12-step programs aren't about blaming parents (or anyone
>else) for how we feel.  But it's important (IMO) to recognize the pain we've
>felt as children.  Society teaches most of us that our "negative" feelings
>aren't legitimate, that we have to keep them in "control."  I think it's
>important for us to experience the full range of our feelings.  (We have
>control insofaras we can choose whether to act on them and how to act on them.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
>"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
>--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: fin@unet.umn.edu (Craig A. Finseth)
Subject: Re: Re: Necronomicon
Organization: University of Minnesota, Networking Services.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:06:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.225447.13661@cs.tulane.edu>, wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta) writes:
|> In article <83950144@otter.hpl.hp.com> cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes:
|> >Robert Mathiesen writes:
|> >>The newly arrived should be informed, of course, that almost every sentence
|> >>in the Necronomicon FAQ (posted by Colin Low) is false ....
	...
|> AH yes that last anti-christ bit leads me to put mounds of faith into that
|> FAQ.  You inspire me Colin, the necronomicon is one book that should just
|> stay dead.  Putting out a FAQ that suggests it's continued existance is
|> just the kind of thing to start up a flurry of questions in an attempt to
|> find a copy. (BTW Colin : will you know the anti-christ if he decides to
|> put in an appearance??)

In my opinion, USENET News dynamics is unlike that of any other area
and creating a FAQ is the best way to kill a subject.  When a newcomer
asks "what about <X>?", the existing people can reply "see the FAQ"
which both answers the question and does so by avoiding discussion,
without bringing up (usually) emotion-laden discussion points.

(If you want to see a good example of a FAQ in use, see comp.lang.c
and watch what happens when someone asks about the representation of
NULL pointers...)

Craig

Xref: sparky alt.magick:4910 alt.pagan:10137 alt.religion.all-worlds:72
From: spok+@cs.cmu.edu (John Ockerbloom)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:17:21 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In <1a6pgtINNt5d@gap.caltech.edu> Mike Jittlov writes:
>
>   "PRACTICE RANDOM KINDNESS AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY"
>
>Anyone who's cruised the Newsgroups has seen that phrase, often
>used in a somebody's sig-quote.  Do you know where it came from?

The article which accompanies that phrase first appeared in Glamour
magazine, in their December 1991 issue.  Several netters picked it out
of there and posted it to various newsgroups, and it quickly spread
throughout the Net.

Our library database doesn't list an author for the article, but Glamour
should be able to work out permissions if you want to reprint.

Hope this helps,

   John Ockerbloom
-- 
==========================================================================
ockerbloom@cs.cmu.edu                4209 Murray Ave., Pittsburgh PA 15217
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Skeptics Make Better Magicians
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:19:49 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

"Skeptics make better magicians."  -- Starhawk, _Spiral Dance_, ch. 7!

-- Robert

(Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: alt.magick support group
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:38:05 GMT

In article <66833@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes:
>Peggy (the correct) writes [my comments in brackets]:
>
>This has nothing to do with magick.  [Are you sure?]

Every few meetings of the UNC-CH Alliance of Pagans begins with folks intro-
ducing themselves around the room.  Invariably someone stands up, gives
their name, and says, "I am a pagan." to which a few people chime in "That's
the first step!" after which the responsa is "...of 13!"  This has become
something between a Discordian ritual and a Monty Python sketch...

Twelve step programs are *surrogate* addiction programs.  Inherently cultish,
they serve as a support group, a tribal community, and a weaning program from
(*acgh*) co-dependency and such.  

As a minister's kid, I got exposed to lots of people *in* these programs,
and attended a couple family-of-AA's [forget the name of the group] meetings
with friends who I thought might benefit but wanted company.  I see very little
difference between 12-step programs and some of the more stratified and 
heirarchical degree-based magickal or religious groups.  12-steppers come in
as novitiates, expecting something that -- realistically -- can't be taught
to them, or handed them on a silver platter.  They are given the idea that
if they just stick with it, some power (over their environment, through 
self-empowerment) will be granted them.  They are taught to externalize this
expectation at first, since they do not have the self-confidence to look for
it within.  Eventually, if they are fortunate, they "graduate" to realization
that the power is within them, and that the struggle is lifelong and on-
going -- there are no silver bullets.  Some leave, and some become 'boddhi-
sattvas' and stay within the group to help others on the path.  So, what's
the diff?

What *doesn't* have something to do with magick? 
-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 11:37:35 GMT

In article <1a6pgtINNt5d@gap.caltech.edu> jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov) writes:
>
>   "PRACTICE RANDOM KINDNESS AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY"

A beautiful posting.

I have a (brief) personal anecdote.  I was buying groceries one day and was 
a nickel or so short.  A woman behind me handed me a nickel.  It really
touched me; people are generally so impersonal around here.  She said, 
"Someone did it for me once.  Do it for someone else when you can."


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
From: knightster+@cmu.edu (Shawn Clayton Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Re: inner circle (and responsibility)
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:22:26 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

By subtle wisdom Colin destroyed both the Newsgroup and its Chief ...
(OK, so I'm quoting Liber [insert forgotten number] vel Causae again ...)

-shawn
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Seeking Creator of "Practice Random Kindness"
Keywords: random kindness, guerrilla goodness, deep thoughts, Marin
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:24:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.magick
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Followup: sci.philosophy.meta

This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.
This has nothing to do with magick.

I'm sure you can find a more appropriate group.

- Peggy -

In article <10479@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, erik@cs.uq.oz.au writes...
>In <1a6pgtINNt5d@gap.caltech.edu> jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike
>Jittlov) writes:
> 
> 
>>   "PRACTICE RANDOM KINDNESS AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY"
> 
>>Anyone who's cruised the Newsgroups has seen that phrase, often...
> 
>	-- lots of story and inspiring stories deleted --
> 
>I, like the idea a lot... but... I hardly dare to write "but"; maybe i'm
>just a cynical European, but i have my doubts about people, however
>well-meaning, doing acts of kindness _at_ people. I mean, a lot of the
>stories just give you a glow when you read them, like paying the toll for
>the six cars behind you. But, maybe i just don't trust my own ability to
>judge what a "kindness" would be for an other.
>In Calcutta, i learned that those of us doing "voluntary work" at Mother
>Teresa's homes got more than we received. I was left feeling grateful for
>the chance to learn so much by "working" there. Other people went home with
>the smug feeling of having "done something for those poor people in
>Calcutta". They often prayed for "the poor" too... One guy i met told me
>he'd pray to (his) god, that "God would let me feel the pain i was causing
>Him (God) by rejecting Him..." By this guy's standards, he was being as
>kind as he knew how to me, and maybe even kind to his God, so i thanked
>him. And he said: "That's okay. I'm glad to do this for you."
> 
>I just got wary somewhere along the line of doing "kindnesses" with any
>sort of confidence _at_ people. I'm glad there are people (and some of the
>examples given showed this) who have the grace to do things which make
>other people happy.
> 
>The grafitti cleaner worried me though, for example. Um: here in Brisbane,
>someone's been cleaning the "gay pride" and anti-rape grafitti from walls,
>and leaving some "Kill all boongs!" slogans. I guess i see too much a need
>for grafitti to consider "cleaning" it a kindness.
> 
>The more i worry about posting a really cynical reply to someone's charming
>idea, the longer this will get. I'll just get off the air!
> 
>(smiles...)
>______________________________________erik@cs.uq.oz.au______
>Erik van Keulen                 I'm queer... so what?!  \  /
>_________________________________________________________\/
Newsgroups: alt.magick