HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Mote in God's Eye (Sequel)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:24:57 GMT
Keywords: speculation . . .

In all the talk about possible plots for the seqeul, I think one has
been missed. . . 

We all know from MiGE that the Moties have the Alderson (or "Crazy
Eddie") drive.  We know they get the Lanston field pretty quickly.
How long does it actually take them to build the first Field-protected
Alderson ship?  The _Lenin_ and (I presume) the waiting tanker
returned to the New Caledonia system fairly promptly, and then they
*stayed* there until the decision was made to blockade the Mote system
at Murcheson's Eye.  To make the blockade work, they had to get a
fleet together . . .

How long did this take?

Could the Moties have slipped a ship out *before* the blockade was set
up--when jump shock wouldn't have left tehm sitting ducks for waiting
warships?

I *think* it's given in MiGE that the only jump-point away from
Murcheson's Eye is to New Caledonia--but is that actually true, or is
it the only jump point to an Imperial planet?  EVen if that's the only
way out--how closely is the point between the Eye and New Cal being
watched?

There may be Moties already loose before the blockade is set up . . .

	--Hal

-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jeffy@netcom.com (Jeff Youngstrom)
Subject: Re: New Varley!
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 17:46:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

s902113@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Luke Mewburn) writes:

>(Quoth I, from my signed HC edition - one of the few here in
> Australia, thanx to a friend who manages Minotaur Book's SF
> section :-)

For those of you in the SF Bay area, Books Inc. in San Jose (Town and
Country across from Valley Fair) still had a stack of signed copies of
this book when I was in there last night.  Varley was there signing in
person several weeks ago, but I was unable to attend as he was there in
the middle of a working day. (an impediment that no longer restrains
me...)  Did anyone attend this event, and if so did he have anything
memorable to say?

BTW, I read the book on vacation recently and was generally satisfied.
It takes place in the Eight Worlds universe familiar to readers of Blue
Champagne, The Ophiuchi Hotline, and The Barbie Murders.  The story
itself is interesting enough, though nothing particularly earth-shaking
(moon-shaking? :-) comes of it.  The real reason to read this book is
the characters.  This book has the best realized characters of any
Varley book to date.  They are eminently human (and inhuman) and
believable.

Let's hope that Mr. Varley's long hiatus from writing is truly at an
end and we'll be seeing more of him in the near future.

Take care,
jeffy
--
Jeffrey Youngstrom                                        jeffy@netcom.com
Read it in the books in the crannies and the nooks there are books to read
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11200 rec.arts.sf.science:2552
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:46:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: techbook.1992Aug19.094627.11228
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 644-8135

>In article <1992Aug16.023454.14687@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>> Education and lack of poverty are survival traits.

If we are talking about genetic survival in developed societies,
the opposite is true.

-- 
szabo@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400, N81) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: potter@csusac.ecs.csus.edu (Carl Kolchak)
Subject: Cover Artists on Cover Art
Followup-To: alt.dev.null
Summary:   bad dates!
Keywords:  Freas,  Legend Still Going Strong.
Organization: INS, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 04:39:54 GMT

David M. Bartlett averred:

> From: db0s+@andrew.cmu.edu (David M. Bartlett)
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
> Subject: Cover Artists on Cover Art
> Message-ID: <QeWv7pK00UhW01OmEJ@andrew.cmu.edu>
> Date: 14 Aug 92 13:15:33 GMT
> Organization: Computer Repair, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

 << stuff deleted >>

> Kelly Freas, who did mongo covers for ACE and DAW books in the 1960's
> and 1970's, as well as Analog/Astounding magazine back to the 1940's,
> once claimed in an interview that Art directors assumed that artists
> were illiterate, and that actually reading the book you were going to
> illustrate was punishable by death in the old days!

If you mean what I think you mean, you're either on the wrong time track,
or completely out to lunch.   Freas, to the best of my knowledge, had 
*NO* "ASTOUNDING" covers until 1953.  (Most of the "ASTOUNDING" covers
in the forties were by folks like Rogers, Cartier, Pattee, Schneeman,
Timmins, etc.)   I'm also not sure Freas did enough covers for DAW in
the sixties to fulfill the numerical requirements of "mongo"ism.
 
Some time ask Freas about the grass he painted on a cover for a Simak 
story, after John Campbell insisted that the bare plain needed grass,
*lots* of grass, all the way to the horizon.......


-- 
=======================================================================
||  "C" gains much of its vaunted efficiency by employing a very     ||
||  powerful pre-processor, normally referred to as a "programmer."  ||
||  rem: "Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."       ||
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Bester & Banks
Date: 17 Aug 1992 17:49:09 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug9.035636.6916@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:

[THE STARS MY DESTINATION is like CONSIDER PHLEBAS, revenge plotlines
summarized]

THE STARS MY DESTINATION (as Randall Garrett once pointed out) takes its
plot from THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO.  I haven't read CONSIDER PHLEBAS,
but since you have, you might try matching up the stories and see if
they match.
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Go to alt.fan...we don't want you(was Re: rec.arts.sf.written FAQ)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:54:32 GMT
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

In <Bt8voI.Dz0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.181500.545@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
>>Perhaps something that should be added to the FAQ is something akin to the
>>following:
>>
>>"Many popular authors are not held in high esteem by most of the
>>r.a.sf.w crowd.  In particular, coming out with positive comments
>>about Piers Anthony, Anne McCaffrey, or David Eddings is likely to
>>stimulate responses on the order of
>>Go away and don't come back unless
>>you have some _real_ SF to talk about.  Thank you."

>/* sarcasm on */
>Gee, what a great idea!  Yeah, and we can also add a list of all
>the authors we *do* like to the FAQ.  Yeah, we can have only stuff
>all of us like!  And I bet YOU know all the BEST, REAL SF there
>ever was!  I nominate aaron@space.ualberta.ca to be the moderator
>from now on, HE *obviously* knows his SF!  We'll talk about stuff
>HE likes, and tell all those poor deluded schmucks to go to hell!
>/* sarcasm off */

Well, she said, getting up on her favorite fence-straddling position,
both of you are right to some extent.  Of course, RASW is for the
discussion of any speculative fiction.  It is *also* the case that
there is a subset of authors that get discussed quite a bit and *do*
provoke the sort of comments that aaron@space described.

[You should note that it looked to me like aaron@space was
*describing* a phenomenon that occurs here, not necessarily
*endorsing* it.]

FAQ's are meant to be informational.  I don't think it is arrogant or
elitist to note those topics which tend to dissolve into flamewars or
long protracted threads that many others find extremely boring.  I
also think it would be useful to list these alt-groups.  So, perhaps
the FAQ could say something like:

------
Note that while any speculative-fiction author or works is fair game
for discussion on this newsgroup, please note that many readers become
bored or annoyed by postings on the following authors, particularly
since there have already been many and long discussions on them:

<author list>

This is not to say "Don't Post" about these authors, this is simply to
warn you to expect some flamage if you do.  Ignore the flames.

There are several alt-hierarchy groups that are devoted exclusively to
specific authors which you may enjoy reading if you have a particular
interest in any of these authors.  These groups are:

<alt-group list>
------

That sounds like a reasonable mediation between the two views, to me.

Getting off the fence now,

--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Internet: tittle@ics.uci.edu       | BITNET: cltittle@uci.bitnet
UUCP:     ...!ucbvax!ucivax!tittle | Usnail: PO Box 4188, Irvine CA, 92716
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: wlh04953@elp.aero.org (William L. Hayden)
Subject: Re: Orson Scott Card
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:54:05 GMT

In article <willimsa.713639370@unix1.tcd.ie> willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams) writes:

>(Joshua M. Sabloff) writes:

>>Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 11-Aug-92 Orson Scott Card
>>Gavin Williams@unix1.tcd (200)

>>Ah, but he gave it up for the "Memory of Earth" series (wait, that's the
>>title of the first book -- what's the *series* called again?).  If you
>>haven't read it yet, give it a try.  It's not "Ender's Game", but it's
>>still a heck of a lot better than some of the other drivel that others
>>pass off as sci-fi.

>I haven't read any of that series.  When an author gets that religious,
>I give up trying to wade through his stuff.

>Pity.
>Example, Ender's game was only brilliant, Speaker for the dead started to 
>lose it.



>>-Josh Sabloff (jsa5@andrew.cmu.edu)
>>"Research physicists need Porsches too!" -- Oliver Wendell Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Tolkien's characters
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:16:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.170247.14710@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>In article <1992Aug08.062638.7657@highlite.uucp> yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>
>)To repeat - Tolkien's books are great because his characters suck.
>)Eddings' books are lousy because he knows how to do real characters.
>)Over and out.
>
>It does seem to me you have something here.  However, it seems to me that
>there is more to Tolkien than cardboard characters.

Yes, of course.  A mere facility with cardboard characters will not
make you the next Tolkien - though it might make you the next Jerry
Pournelle.

c
From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Date: 13 Aug 92 07:54:34 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

_The Dragon and The George_, Gordon Dickson. Light fantasy, but a good
early work (IMO).
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________________
/                            |                                            \
|   Rob Turner, PC Support   |     email : Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk     |
|   Brunel University        |                                            |
|   London, England          | And me, with a brain the size of a planet. |
\____________________________|____________________________________________/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 17 Aug 92 05:54:07 GMT

In <1992Aug17.052715.15453@kithrup.COM> sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:

>>SPOILERS


>Well, how I interpreted it, after and before going, "Huh?":

>Sandre is old, so will die.
>Baerd will marry Elena, so is blessed.
>Devin seemed to be uncertain about what to do with his life (although we all
>know he's going to end up with what's-her-name), so his life will fork.

This is a reasonable interpretation, I agree, its just that I
came to love the characters so much that I didn't/don't _want_ to
try and figure out which one is going to die.

>One of the things I liked about it was that the chief "evil guy" wasn't
>really all that evil, and a lot of the main characters did not have a happy
>ending.  So I'm not sure if my interpretation of the ending was all that
>accurate.

Which one did you think was the 'chief evil guy'?  Alberico, or
Brandin?  They were both evil, IMHO, just in different ways.  I
agree, though, that the characterization was excellent in this
book.  I want Kay to write MORE, dammit, although I think writing
anything else about Tigana would spoil the magic.

Now then, Alberico was evil, and nasty, and brutish, and all
those things we associate with the conquering army.  Someone
tried to poison him, and he murdered and tortured the entire
suspect's _clan_ in public.  He went out and made a naked land
grab of four provinces for the sole purpose of having a
legitimate excuse to have an army to take control of his own
Empire.

But Brandin... Brandin is one of the most interesting characters
I've come across in quite some time.  In many ways, I would
almost have applauded his takeover of the western Palm, because
he probably would have been _good_ for those people, from an
historical point of view.  He was binding them into a common
people, giving them access to a better economy, offering common
defense, and patronizing their artists and poets.  But in some
ways, like what he did to Tigana, and to Prince Valentin, he was
the cold soul of evil.

Which would you rather live under?

--
"If you ask anyone else about this, you'll get really confused."
          -'Dr.' Robert Chapman, 09-18-91
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Andre Norton's _Beastmaster_ (the book, not the (ugh) movie)
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:19:18 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In cleaning out my parents' house last week I ran across my original
Ace Double copy of _Beastmaster_ from the early 50s.  What I hadn't
remembered was that the cover clearly identifies it as "abridged".

Can anyone on the net tell me what parts of the story were left 
out when it was cut down to fit the Ace Double format?

And as long as we're talking about _Beastmaster_, what's the story
behind the movie sequel?  I noticed that _Beastmaster_2_ was available
on cable (as pay-per-view) back in June, although given the abyssmal 
handling of the original I had no trouble deciding not to watch it...

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mcconnel@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Mike McConnell)
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:36:22 GMT

About ten years back I read a book involving dragons that I remembering being
very entertaining.  It had two authors, and the title was something like 

			Dragonworld

If anyone knows more about this, please help.  If you can find it, read it.
Also, a few years back Orson Scott Card (I think) edited a pair of books called
Dragons of Dark and Dragons of Light (or maybe it was one book.  This is the 
price I pay for having my collection boxed up in my parents basement.)
In any case, also well worth reading.

Michael McConnell
Department of Mathematics
Kent State University
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tucker@smsc.sony.com (Tim Tucker)
Subject: David Brin - What is he up to?
Keywords: Brin, Dolphins, Sundiver, Startide Rising, Uplift War
Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:50:56 GMT


Hello,

    Does anyone out their have the scoop on what Brin is doing these days?  I
have pretty much given up hope that he will ever finish the Startide/Uplift
story, what with 5 years having past since "The Uplift War" was published.  He
dropped SO MANY hints leading up to a possible closing book in the "Uplift War",
and then no book ever came!  Arggggggg!!!  :-)
    If anybody has seen/heard Brin at a convention recently and has some news
on when/if he ever plans to write in the Startide universe again, mail me and
let me know.

Thanks,

Tim
tucker@smsc.Sony.COM


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: phatch@storm.slc.mentorg.com (Phill Hatch (CONTRACTOR Documentation))
Subject: Re: Elric Chronicles
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.,  Murray, Utah
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:00:28 GMT

In article <keWaPwu00io=MMA1Eo@andrew.cmu.edu>, jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua M. Sabloff) writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 12-Aug-92 Elric Chronicles
> Count Zero @uxa.cso.uiuc (157)
> 
> > 	Has anyone read Michael Moorcock's 'Elric Chronicles'? It looks
> > fascinating but maybe someone can tell me if it is a waste of time...
> 
> Waste of time.  Poorly written.  No plot.  It's that simple.
> 

Well, I have to admit that the first foor of the basic six are less than optimal.
I read them when I was 13 in the mid seventies and the Whelan covers were cooler 
than anything else I had seen at the time.  However, the last two are worth the
time of going through all six.  They are so short that the time investment is
minimal and well worth the payoff in the final paragraph of _Stormbringer_.

As for _Elric at the End of Time_, the only part worth it was "The Stone Thing,
A Tale of Parts"

The _Fortress of the Pearl_ was tolerable, but not great.  

Moorcock's best work, IMHO is the Eternal Champion Cycle based on John Daker 
whose titles as I recall are:
	The Eternal Champion
	The Silver Warriors
	(I can't remember and the book, of course is at home...)

Moorcock Trivia:

	The dedication at the beginning of _The Chronicles of Corum_,  "To 
	Wendy Fisher", I think it was, is that a reference to the now
	Wendy Pini in consideration of her Elric illustrations?  Anyone know for sure?

> 
> -Josh Sabloff (jsa5@andrew.cmu.edu)
> "Research physicists need Porsches too!" -- Oliver Wendell Jones

Phil Hatch phatch@storm.slc.mentorg.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: Author Polls -- Cordwainer Smith
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:08:47 GMT

In article <w-3m0-c.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Choosing among Cordwainer Smith's top half dozen stories is hard,
>almost arbitrary.  The '-1' entry is easy, though:  I can't think
>of anything he wrote that merits it.  I can't think of any other
>science fiction author with such a *solid* corpus.

When discussion comes round to the Golden Age, I often find myself
wondering if I'm living in the same consensus reality as the
rest of you blokes.  I haven't read much by Smith - an anthology
or two - but everything I've seen has been, if an improvement on
E.E. Doc, mindbogglingly awful.  Without exception.

I wish I did like Cordwainer, really.  It'd be so pleasant being
able to claim that the entire genre is going downhill without a
paddle, not a decent jot written since 1953, overrun by decadent
hacks, corrupted by capitalism & soiled by socialism, etc, etc -
with a straight face.

How do you all do it?  Perhaps I could convince myself through
practice, devotion, and forced multiple rereadings of _The Skylark
Of Space_?  Would a subscription to _Analog_ help?

c
From: s902113@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Luke Mewburn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: New Varley!
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:29:46 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

stets@stets.novalis.public.sub.org (Thomas Stets) writes:

>a481@mindlink.bc.ca writes in article <14116@mindlink.bc.ca>:
>>
>> The jacket cover had a quote from Spider Robinson, something to the effect of
>> "The opening line is outrageous -- even for me!". I read the first line (and
>> _only_ the first line, I'll read the book when I bring it home) and I burst out
>> laughing. In a quiet bookstore. Boy was my face red. :)

>Come on, have mercy. Here in Germany it might be months or years til
>we can find that book in the stores. (And I don't want to know what
>the translator will do to that first line :-(  )

>So please: quote that line!

"IIII
  II
  II
 IIII n five years, the penis will be obsolete," said the salesman.


(Quoth I, from my signed HC edition - one of the few here in
 Australia, thanx to a friend who manages Minotaur Book's SF
 section :-)
[complete with Illumination :-]

Actually, it gets a lot better.


>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thomas Stets  Tel. +49 (7031) 04957       ! Sweet freedom whispered in my ear
>Holzgerlingen, Germany                    ! You're a butterfly
>                                          ! And butterflies are free to fly
>stets@stets.novalis.public.sub.org        ! Fly away, high away, bye bye.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 

"...(and) We've heard how teen prostitution, pregnancy,        Luke Mewburn
drug use, cults, runaways, suicide and poor hygiene are          s902113@
sweeping this nation. We thought you might like to share          minyos.
with the committee any particular *causes* you might see            xx.
for those latter problems..."                                      rmit.
"  I dunno, Maybe the proliferation of narrow, suffocating          oz.
zealotry masquerading as parenting in this country."                au
              Steve Dallas, 'Bloom County'.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Yet Another Misleading C
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:01:11 -0600

In a message to Crawford Kilian <12 Aug 92 09:54> in Usenet rec.arts.sf.written
Alan Moorman wrote:

 AM> Maybe you can hazard a guess (or actually Know A Fact) about why so many
 AM> covers are done by people who are actually inept at rendering people
 AM> (other things)?  If you go scan the covers at a good sized s-f book
 AM> rack, it is just true!  And I'm not speaking of artistic license --
 AM> just awkward looking art!

Budgets and schedules.  

And do remember that the cover art isn't intended as an illustration
for the book, but as an advertisement for the book.  What's important
is that it gets the guys who stock the racks at the supermarket and
the airport to put the book out in the racks; if the cover doesn't do
that, the book will only show up in bookstores.

 AM> As to my reader-type reactions, on rare occasion, I do buy a book
 AM> largely on the basis of the way someone looks on the cover.  (And am
 AM> usually disappointed in that character when I read the bood.)  But,
 AM> usually I buy a book *in* *spite* of its cover! Isn't that a shame!

I've had to buy a number of books in spite of the covers, and it is a
shame.  But not a big one.  I have, however, learned not to take the
cover too seriously in choosing a book!

 * Origin: This tagline not to be removed under penalty of law (1:282/341.0)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science