Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Elite..... My Foot!
From: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:17:47 GMT
Reply-To: shariq@charlie.usd.edu
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

In article <F43703A.93Jan12192251@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp>, f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA) writes:
>	<1993Jan10.033155.24823@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>	<F43703A.93Jan12114453@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
>	<1itsr9INNcoo@shelley.u.washington.edu>
>Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 10:22:51 GMT
>Lines: 142
>
>In article <1itsr9INNcoo@shelley.u.washington.edu> shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes:
>
> |Path: nucc!tutgw!hamamatsu-pc.ac.jp!yilnws!dclsic!wnoc-tyo-news!nec-tyo!nec-gw!sgiblab!spool.mu.edu!uunet!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!shelley.u.washington.edu!shamshoo
> |From: shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
> |Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
> |Summary: It is hard to be objective, my dear indian hindooo............
> |Keywords: Hang loose on the Caboose !
> |Date: 12 Jan 93 07:43:37 GMT
> |References: <1993Jan9.175605.1577@newton.ccs.tuns.ca> <1993Jan10.033155.24823@leland.Stanford.EDU> <F43703A.93Jan12114453@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
> |Sender: Shams Hasan
> |Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
> |Lines: 94
> |NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu
> |
> |In article <F43703A.93Jan12114453@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp> f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA) writes:
> |>In article <1993Jan10.033155.24823@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
> |>
> |> |
> |> |	  " Behind every rich man there is alarge crime"
> |>
> |>
> |>I am a Indian. I am siting a instant in which this above point is wrong.
> |>
> |>1) There is a PUSPAK (5 Star) Hotel in Banglalore. All people know how
> |>he came up. He had a simple resturant in the begining.
> |>
> |>    You may not believe this example.
> |>
> |>2) The Great TATA. It is the only company that is run by a technocrat
> |>not a Buisness man. No one ever leaves Tata. It owns the greatest Steel
> |>factory. ITs other contributions to India cannot be expressed by words.
> |
> |True, and remarkable. I had the singular opportunity with my father in 1976
> |as a guest, to meet one of the Tatas at their offices in Bombay, and notwithstanding their incredible wealth, I came away much humbled by the gentleman's character and personality, and he made a lifelong impression on me.
> |>
> |>
> |>So if a person Grows rich over night, then it is true that
> |>
> |>" Behind that rich man there is alarge crime"
> |>
> |>But for a person who has strugled all his life to become really a succussful
> |>person, it may not be true.
> |>
> |>
> |>OH! I remember another one. It appeared in HINDU INTERNATIONAL recently.
> |>It was a general belief that only Big companies can make shampoos and soaps.
> |>THat person proved it wrong. He was probably from Goa. Today Goa( I am
> |>not sure) has lot of small industries. YOu can always ask "Does they never
> |>pay Bribe?" Yes they might. But you cannot really say that they succeded
> |>due to those small bribe. The local goverments liberal policy was some what
> |>responsible for it.
> |>
> |>
> |>Yes I remember one more case. SUNLIGHT is also one more washing powder
> |>that came up gradually. 
> |>
> |>
> |>The main thing is that you can grow rich by stealing. But to make a new
> |>product, you need inteligence, fore sightedness, Technology and hard work.
> |>One more thing which Pakistan always lacked is the will to make itself 
> |>selfsufficient.
> |>
> |>Pakistan, because of it old sore with India and due the Cold war , became a
> |>pupet of US. It was amply proved when the cold war ended. Pak should realise
> |>this, try to make friend with its real brother INDIA by being logical and
> |>fight the real enemy.
> |
> |And in here goes your Indian Hindoo digression. You guys, no matter how 
> |secular you may try to sound, cannot sit on this itch.
> |
> |>
> |>Remember the arms race can never end.
> |>
> |>All the best
> |>(I digressed a little bit from the topic of discussion at the end, Sorry)
> |
> |That is alright. We know you could'nt help it.
> |>
> |>--
> |>With regards
> |> 
> |>SUPRATIC GUPTA
> |
> |Dear Supratic,
> |
> |I have to agree with everthing, except you digression.
> |
> |Pakistan has a sad legacy of Vaderaas/Zamindaars who hold eighty percent of
> |the population hostage. They force them into generation wise slavery and
> |keep them illeterate on purpose.
> |
> |One thing I admire about India, is the way Nehru dislodged all princely
> |Haraamqoors, who were controlling large amount of people and resources to
> |their personal pleasures.
> |
> |The wealth made by the Pakistani Vaderaas/Zamindaars is not the same wealth
> |the industrialist or businessman struggles to make, twelve, fourteen hours a
> |day, seven days a week, come winter or summer. In short, they have never done
> |one days of honest work either on their gardens, farms, businesses as a worker
> |rather than as a Master/Maalik.
> |
> |However, as is the case in all areas, not all those people in Pakistan are
> |crooks, but, they are the main body against spread of education and development
> |in rural areas, which is a threat to their power and influence.
> |
> |
> |Best Regards,
> |Shams Hasan.
>
>I have no idea about pakistan's internal structure. I thought in Islamic
>society nobody exploits any one. If it is there too then what is the 
>difference with Idian caste system? 
>
>But one thing i very clear too me. India and Pakistan took two different
>roots to progress.
>
>India went forward establishing its industrial backbone against all odds
>set by USA. May be it is because of the intelectual capacity of India +
>right leadership (In this concept).
>
>On the other hand Pakistan went forward by teaching distorted History to
>its children and taking US as a real friend to fight against India. They
>forgot to build there own base.
>
>That is why Pak crumbles to pressure of US and India does not. Out of the
>301 applied countries, India was the only that didnot break down.
>This is a very important thing.
>
>Pakistan should first deal with its internal problem , rather then creating
>problem for India. 
>
>Do you know who dies when two elephant fights? It is the grasses.
>
>Here also the poor people are the sufferer.
>
>So My sinsere advice to Pakistan is to make India as a friend and make its
>economy better. This will help us too.
>
>--
>With regards
> 
>SUPRATIC GUPTA
I agree with you completely Supratic. India and Pakistan should be friends, and
then they can stop worrying about one another. Richard Nixon once said that
these countries with nearly a fifth of the worlds population spend almost 50%
of their GNP because of fear of each other. All your points make sense, but
you assume or take for granted that man is rational. He is not and that is why 
we face the troubles that we do. Religious fanaticism, a lack of education and
corrupt leaders make people even more irrational. Realistically, Pakistan and
India will never rid themselves of these evil aspects of society so I doubt
it if our countries will ever become friends. There are always going to be some 
Muslims and always going to be some Hindus who will want get at each others' 
throats, and this will prompt other members of their communities to join in and
thus the chain action will continue.

An example of this situation was evident when Deb and Mus started up and
argument and very many people got involved. What was the need? There was no
need to do so. Heck even I got involved although to a lesser extent and not in 
defence of Mustafa but rather in the defence of my community. Does it really
matter what others think about about us when the truth is on our side?
Rationally it does not, but in real life it does. 

Unfortunately, we from the Subcontinent inherited this curse and our
generations will contine to do so.

Shariq