From: cward@dseg.ti.com (Christopher)
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Reply-To: Christopher.Ward@dseg.ti.com
Organization: Perhaps some, but not too much...
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:57:04 GMT

Ah, spring again, libido's cranking up, hormones are heating up, and the
moon waxes into fullness...  This must explain the recent shovelling of
posts in a flurry to the net.

In article 913@gdr.bath.ac.uk, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>>You don't understand what magick is supposed to be.  You obviously 
>>haven't made an effort to find out.  If you can't be bothered to find out, 
>>then why bother airing your opinions?  Simply jump to your conclusion that we 
>>are deluded and not to be trusted, then get lost.  I can live with that.
>
>I have too made an effort.  I've read lots of stuff by Crowley. I've been
>to seminars with Gareth Knight and Delores Ashcroft-Norwicki.  I've read
>quite a bit of Regardies stuff as well.

This may seem depressing, but it sounds like you are way ahead of most of the
people posting to this group.  However, I have not seen anything useful from 
you other than "nyah-nyah nin-nyah-nyah you can cast spells" in some odd form
of psychology to get some one to "show me yours, then I'll show you mine".
While crack pots and frauds abound here as on many new groups (perhaps moreso
here because of content), the long-term "member" shares as much as they get.

>  Finally,  I've posted on this
>newsgroup to try and get some more info.  At least one person has actually
>given me some useful information.  The rest just attack me because they
>don't want to give me any useful information.  My only response is that
>I can only conclude that you don't have any useful information to give,
>because you are hiding behind religious excuses.

(see above) You can always get your money back.

>>Don't owe you any explanations.
>>
>Then what's the point of having a newsgroup if people don't want
>to explain their Magick?

I'm not sure that is the purpose of this (or any) newsgroup.  I hear you saying
that people are not posting their personal cookbooks of magick for you to copy
and promote yourself from first level magic user to fifteenth level wizard in
just 30 days.  This isn't alt.microwave.magick (and this isn't a flame).  This
stuff (magick) takes a lot of time and energy.  I recall this being better 
expressed in a previous post so, 'nuff said.

Rarely, you will find that people post direct, straight-forward rituals but 
occasionally post the hints.  I speculate this is for many reasons:

(1) By the time you get to the actual performance of the ritual there is a
    whole volume of background information, correspondances, and preparations
    that are as important (if not moreso) than the actual rite.  There is a
    wide diversity of approach in this group.

(2) Full disclosure (because of #1 above) would take up far too much bandwidth.
    At work, I often give the computer guru's response to frequently asked
    stupid questions: RTFM (read the _ manual).  That's what books are for.

(3) Many spiritual workings are quite personal.  However, people sometimes share
    smaller parts that work or not as they feel free too (never when man-handled).
    A post like "Hey, I've been really concentrating on centering but unable to
    go beyond 20 minutes without breaking into violent sneezing.  Anyone else
    had this problem (and fixed it)?" evokes many more helpful responses than
    "You're all a bunch of fakes and can't do anything.  Prove me wrong."

(4) Some people (myself included, at times) are in the learning stages themselves
    and have not gotten to the point yet where they are able to completely 
    objectify their workings and/or have had enough repetition to be clearly 
    confident that they have all that variables down pat.

(5) Some people just don't want to get flamed.  (Side note: Josh moans about 
    this group not being moderated, or wishing that it was, but he semi-moderates
    the group by regular flames to new or trepidatious folk and pronouces summary
    judgement on those whose post their own judgements, differing from JG's of 
    course.  However grouchy or hypocritical *any* of us may be, it is really
    the least of your worries when dealing with this spritual stuff.)

BTW, the FAQ lists several goods books which do have the background and "starter
spells" for those just beginning.  With my students I find that general group 
instruction only goes so far.  Each has a unique set of talents and ability to
absorb information.  This is hard enough face-to-face in private.  So, maybe
communication over the net is going to be a bit bumpy.
 
>>Pssst:  Scientists tend to find out what they're talking about before they 
>>        talk about it.

Remember "cold fusion" several months back?  Scientists are the priests of a
religion with no heart.

>Pssst:  Religious Freaks tend to attack people and not their arguments,
>because they don't have any sound basis from which to make a reasonable
>response.

This is the emotional response of a wide variety of antagonists but
this statement seems more of a thinly veiled version of elementary
school name-calling.

---
           ___                | Sometimes I'm almost there 
	  /                   | Sometimes I fly like an eagle
	 /___ hristopher      | Sometimes I'm deep in despair...

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