HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgs1@ra.msstate.edu (jimi strickland)
Subject: Another thought...
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 09:02:24 GMT

  I also have trouble with relating someone's intelligence to their GPA.
  Often, I have seen what I consider to be very intelligent people do 
  poorly in school.  Their poor performace is usually due to a poor
  teacher or what I term 'busy work' on a level quite beneath their
  abilities.  I have observed students earning low marks in classes where
  they had a full understanding of the material, but were so bored with
  the repetitive tasks assigned that they did not do their assignments, 
  thereby receiving a low grade for the class.
  Personal experience:  I was enrolled in an English Literature class one
  semester in which we were to write a report after reading each book.
  Having scored an 'A' on the first four reports, I felt that I had 
  demonstrated sufficient reading comprehension and ability to report on
  what I had read.  Therefore, I stopped reading the books and reporting
  on them and devoted my time to more academic pursuits.  Needless to say,
  my grade in that class was poor.  The professor let me withdraw from the
  class with a passing grade, but I am required to take it again.
  I fail to see why I should be required to read and report on more books
  when I have already shown that I possess the knowledge/skills.
  I think I should be able to just write one paper or so. ha ha
  I, like many other students, felt that it was a tragic waste of my good
  time to read what is not even considered 'good' literature and then
  report on it for the professor's amusement.

  I fully realize that I/they *should* have done the work, but quite a few
  people go to college to *learn* and not just get some mark on a piece of
  paper arbitrarily ranking their knowledge on the subject.
  (grades in college are seldom accurate indicators of a student's
   mastery of the subject except in cases of blatant failing)

          -jimi-
From: FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Another thought...(Not even close)
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:34 GMT
Organization: University (so they say) of Central Florida

In article <1ibdriINNtmb@ub.d.umn.edu>, jgregory@ub.d.umn.edu (jennifer gregory)
says:
>
>I guess my point is, that I've been told that I should do that work so that
>I can prove that I can do what I'm told, and jump through those hoops...
>so why should anyone gripe when I ask them to raise those loops and set 'em
>afire?

Why don't you have the ability to create your own hoops?

If you have truely mastered the materials in a course, then put it on
automatic and use the extra time to explore things of interest to YOU.
Don't you think that it's time that you grew up and accepted responsibility
for your own education?  YOU are responsibile for what you learn (or fail
to learn), no one else.  Stop whining about how school is not challenging
you and start challenging yourself.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu <or> ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
 "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:03:23 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <1993Jan4.172817.1@gallua> CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET (Kevin Cole; Washington DC) writes:
>
>Are there any decent IQ tests for deaf individuals?  The development of spoken

There is the Cattell Culture-Fair test, which is supposedly less language-
dependant than other instruments.

   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |   Ken Gacioch                    |     Be wary of strong drink.      |
   |   nate!ken@cs.rit.edu            |     It can make you shoot at      |
   |                                  |     tax collectors -- and miss.   |
   |                                  |                 - Lazarus Long    |
   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: SAT and GRE (was Re: random comments..ha ha)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:21:14 GMT
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.

In article <01GT442ITPXUADCZDL@ccfvx3.draper.com>,
skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
|>
|>>From: jimi strickland <jgs1@ra.msstate.edu>
|>>Message-ID: <jgs1.726137614@Isis.MsState.Edu>
|>>
|>>  I also don't like intelligence tests in which some sort of writing is
|>>  required on a timed basis.
|>
|>Which intelligence test requires writing?
|>

I seem to remember hearing early last year that ETS was considering
adopting a writing section on the SAT.  Does anyone have any further
information on this?

Also, I've seen two graduate admission forms recently that have blanks
for an "Advanced" score on the GRE, one of which did not have a blank
for an Analytical score and the other of which had blanks for Verbal, 
Quantitative, Analytical, and Advanced score.  I took the GRE about
1 1/2 years ago, and I my test report had no mention of an Advanced
score.  Was this perhaps a section of the test that was replaced by the
Analytical section?  Anyone know?
                                         
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"I find television very educating.  Every time somebody turns on the 
set I go into the other room and read a book."          - Groucho Marx
Organization: University of Spoiled Brats
Date: Wednesday, 6 Jan 1993 08:55:00 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> "Larry Wink"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Another thought...(Not even close)
 <1993Jan5.170752.25864@cbnewse.cb.att.com>

In article <1993Jan5.170752.25864@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com
(gilbert.m.stewart) says:

>by convincing the professor or his superiors.  You have to DO
>SOMETHING.  NOT JUST COMPLAIN.

Again GMS has missed the point entirely.  We live in a world of VICTIMS.
Just watch any of our cultural icons (the morning talk shows).  The point
is NEVER to do something.  If you did, how could you ever be invited to
COMPLAIN about it on Phil (or his moral equivalents).

O well, stay tune for the jimi and jennifer show.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu <or> ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
     "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and
          and the intelligent full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
From: jgregory@ub.d.umn.edu (jennifer gregory)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Another thought...(Not even close)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:37:22 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu


In article <93004.153005FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> "Larry Wink" writes:
>An example of what's wrong with the current educational system (and society
>as a whole) - let's not ever hold someone reponsible for their actions.
>Well, jimi, there is obviously no need for a bright boy like you to be wasting
>his time in college.  After all, what will you end up with?  Some marks on
>a piece of paper arbitrarily attesting to your knowledge and ability to learn.
>Run, don't walk, out to the real world.  Its just waiting for another bright
>boy who knows it all.  An attitude like yours will be justly rewarded.
>



I think you've completely missed his point.  If the point of a class is to
teach one how to perform one specific skill, and consists of nothing but
repitition of that particular skill, the student who, halfway through the
course, has mastered the skill should not be penalized for wanting to move
on to a new skill.  He doesn't appear to want to rush out into the 'real
world' because he thinks he knows it all ... but I know what he's talking
about - I've been through that too ... and I've gotten poor grades because
of it.  Example - the basic high school health class ... I learned not one
thing ... your basic bull, two movies a week, and vocabulary sheets that
a 2nd grader could manage.  I hated that class, and I got bad grades because
I didn't have the patience to perform such a mindless task.  Instead, I put
my efforts into a MUCH more challenging class, where I still got poor
grades ... but I worked like hell for those grades... and I loved it!

I guess my point is, that I've been told that I should do that work so that
I can prove that I can do what I'm told, and jump through those hoops...
so why should anyone gripe when I ask them to raise those loops and set 'em
afire?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cmwolf@mtu.edu (christopher m. wolf)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:37:55 GMT

roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>
>What does first year of university predict? It predicts absolutely nothing.
>I have seen just as many people who did poorly in the first year (since
>they were bored to death) and later did very well, as those who did
>well in the first year (in a high school like enviroment) and very
>poorly later.

If they do poor enough they fail out, this may cause a problem.
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:05:43 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan8.173044.23511@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
  gilbert.m.stewart writes:

> That's pretty nasty, Chris.  Actually, I can see his point.  The first
> time I went to a Mensa activity, I was disgusted by it.  Two guys in
> particular.  Still don't know why they were so ornery.

Hey, it says in my contract that I only have to be smart, not nice.
If you want nice, that'll cost you extra.

I've never been to any meetings, but I do plan on attending the NPL
meeting (the National Puzzlers League) this summer (although this isn't
an IQ society).  The only reason I'd go to an IQ gathering would be
if I knew people who were going to be there, and since I don't I don't
plan on attending in the near future.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ 08807-2618

Score: 0, Diff: 1, clong killed by a Harvard Math Team on  1
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:21:01 GMT

kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey) writes:

>In article <schnitzi.725667464@eola.cs.ucf.edu> schnitzi@cs.ucf.edu (Mark Schnitzius) writes:
>>>you do, that the Bible is 90% fiction.  Don't judge the Bible, or the
>>>Christian faith, by hearsay alone, or what you see one believer do.
>>>Investigate it as you would anything, by rigorous study and scientific
>>>method.  I think you'll be surprised at astronomers and archaeologists that
>>>have set out to disprove some aspect of the Bible, only to become believers.
>>
>>Don't tell me you believe the world is only 6000 years old.

>Where in the bible does it say that the world is only 6000 years old?

It doesn't say this directly, but some people have arrived at this number
by adding up all the generations back to Adam and Eve.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:00:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.233556.24891@julian.uwo.ca> roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>In article <EIVERSON.93Jan6221336@aiaia.nmsu.edu> eiverson@nmsu.edu (Eric Iverson) writes:
>>
>>I think a good measure of intelligence would be whether, after joining
>>Mensa, you have the good sense to quit.  I can honestly say that I
>>have never met a bigger bunch of minutiae crazed, self-important
>>blowhards in my life.  My next door neighbor (170 IQ, Ph.D in physics
>>at age 21) who joined with me was even more infuriated.  Sort of like
>>the meeting the bottom 2 percent of the top 2 percent.  As far as I'm
>>concerned, the truly intelligent are those who don't have time to pat
>>themselves on the back for having such a wonderful brain, because
>>they're too busy using it.  But then what do I know?  I'm only working
>>on my second Master's degree.  Maybe I shoulda joined Densa instead.
>>
>>
>>--
>Yes, I too have noticed this. The worst thing is that those people
>think that the fact that they got a high score on one of those tests
>proves that they are so smart.... What a joke.
>

I think you may be right.  But I have to caution you that folks
that harp on this may come across as defensive.  And I've seen
people use the, "You think you're so smart/always right," response
as a substitute for a rational response or any kind of logical
argument.  That response tends to work well with stupid people,
however, who are then supposed to feel guilty for making a point.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:41:18 GMT

In article <wiegand.726175261@lido16> motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net writes:
>kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey) writes:
>
>>In article <schnitzi.725667464@eola.cs.ucf.edu> schnitzi@cs.ucf.edu (Mark Schnitzius) writes:
>>>>you do, that the Bible is 90% fiction.  Don't judge the Bible, or the
>>>>Christian faith, by hearsay alone, or what you see one believer do.
>>>>Investigate it as you would anything, by rigorous study and scientific
>>>>method.  I think you'll be surprised at astronomers and archaeologists that
>>>>have set out to disprove some aspect of the Bible, only to become believers.
>>>
>>>Don't tell me you believe the world is only 6000 years old.
>
>>Where in the bible does it say that the world is only 6000 years old?
>
>It doesn't say this directly, but some people have arrived at this number
>by adding up all the generations back to Adam and Eve.
>

Speaking of adding up ages, I remember a story about folks in the Ural
(sp?) area in Russia.  It seems they all lived to extraordinary ages,
in the realm of 130-140 years old.  They all ate yogurt.  The Dannon
people used this in their advertisements.  Some of them died eventually,
as old people are wont to do, and some dental examinations were done.
It turned out that they were old enough and had been born long enough
ago so that records were not well kept, and many of them being beyond
senility, didn't know when they were born, so they just picked a high
number, because they "knew" they were "real old".  Dannon doesn't
run the ads any more.

Of course, there was no senility or bad records 6000 years ago.

GMS
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:48:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: Eric Roberts <roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca>
>Message-ID: <1993Jan8.041838.13841@julian.uwo.ca>
>
>>> The difference between 60 and 150 may be great, but the difference between
>>> 120-150 (or 150-180) is not, since both individuals have the basic skills
>>> that are measured by those tests well developed (like vocab).
>>
>>Interesting that you use a 30-point difference in both of those examples.
>>Studies have shown that if there is a difference of 30 or more points
>>between two people, they have trouble communicating with each other.
>>
>Ah... that must be why we have trouble communicating... :)
>Seriously: I have never seen such studies, plase give me some references...
>The 30 point difference that I have used was quite arbitrary, it could
>have been 150-210.

A number of studies have shown that one of the closest IQ
correlations can be found among married couples.  Whatever IQ
measures, it would seem that people seek out a fairly close
correspondence when choosing a mate.  The typical difference
is much less than 30 points, assuming the same test was used.
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:13:02 -0500

On 1/12/93, John Cooley said something, prompting this incredibly noteworthy
response: 

  JC> To get back to my point, Mensa events aren't the nightmare for new
  JC> members that you're making out to be.  I've seen quite a few new and
  JC> perspective members at lots of Boston Mensa events and for the most
  JC> part, once these people come to their first couple of events they
  JC> usually become regulars...

Isn't that getting awfully close to being true "by definition"?


  JC> ... The problem comes when the new member comes
  JC> only to one event and it wasn't what they were looking for and they
  JC> don't try again.  These people are tough to catch.  But, if they go to
  JC> about 3 events, they'll usually 
  JC> find the subgroup of Mensans they like and become one of the dreaded
  JC> "insiders".  (By the way, these group dynamics aren't exclusive to
  JC> Boston Mensa or Mensa in general - virtually all volunteer social
  JC> groups function this way with new members.)

I've heard this (the "get them to three events, and they'll usually find...")
said often, but it seems to me to imply a causality that I'm not confident truly
exists.  It seems to me that those most likely to become "regulars" are the ones
most likely to go to three events in the first place, n'est-ce pas?  They're
more likely to be actively looking for a new social outlet, and more likely to
look around until they meet people they find interesting.

I'm not sure what conclusion I'd draw from this, other than to say that I doubt
we can accurately access how welcome we're making the "average" new member
coming to a first event, based on the success we have with the subset of new
members who come to a few events and become "regulars," since it's my suspicion
that the soon-to-be "regular" was perhaps more predisposed to keep looking until
he found something enjoyable in the first place.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 16:14:01 GMT

In article <Jan.9.06.57.10.1993.4025@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.203403.10139@julian.uwo.ca>, Eric Roberts writes:
>
>> I know enought about genetics to know that what the theory
>> of evolution claims is impropable. 
>
>The fact that a sequence of probable events, spread over a billion
>years, can lead to what is apparently improbable.
>
>Evolution is a fact, and I find your attitude towards it completely
>bizarre.  Evolution is testable, as any scientific theory must be, so
>feel free to come up with some evidence that it's false.

This sounds suspiciously like one of those debates in which party or
parties have emotionally attached themselves to a conclusion and are
desperately ignoring points and/or evidence to preserve their frame
of reference.  In that, it seems very similar to some rather pointless
IQ testing "debates" that occurred not too many months ago.

"X is bad!"
"Why?"
"It just is!  I don't like it!"
"Here's why it's not."
"Well I don't believe that.  And how can you prove that?  What if...
life is a... dream, and we can't really prove anything??  What if
Eleanor Roosevelt could fly??"

From which Valuable Conclusions for Living arise, of course.

I guess I don't have much problem with a person maintaining their
personal ideological framework, or delusions, for that matter.  But
I can't bring myself to attribute any "goodness" or "badness" to it
except in that I personally don't find it particularly useful or
constructive in any way to support delusions.  Then again, who knows
what the future holds?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:45:42 GMT

In article <Jan.9.06.57.10.1993.4025@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.203403.10139@julian.uwo.ca>, Eric Roberts writes:
>
>> I know enought about genetics to know that what the theory
>> of evolution claims is impropable. 
>
>The fact that a sequence of probable events, spread over a billion
>years, can lead to what is apparently improbable.
The problem is, that the wonders presuposed by this theory, are too 
improbable for me to accept
>Evolution is a fact, and I find your attitude towards it completely
>bizarre.  Evolution is testable, as any scientific theory must be, so
>feel free to come up with some evidence that it's false.
>
It is not up to me to prove that evolution did not occur, it is up
to you to prove that it did. Please explain how it is testable...
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Evolution n
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:34:41 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <1993Jan12.000327.6527@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

>>As this is supposed to be a newsgroup for very intelligent people, let
>>me remind you that many of the world's geniuses have and still do believe
>>the Bible.  Evidence for a young earth and a sudden creation exists,

You have a list of "the world's geniuses" ?  I doubt it.  So how can you 
know what proportion of them believe the Bible?  
Certain observations exist which can be used to support the young earth 
hypothesis, and it sounds like it's the young earth model you're using to 
claim evolution is statistically impossible (no time for observed speciation)
However, close scientific examination of the aforementioned observations 
shows they fit perfectly well with the evolutionist models.
Please subscribe immediately to talk.origins

        Never believe an experiment until it is confirmed by theory 
    Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England    (44|0)61-275-6033  
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:28:45 GMT

We could always make it a rule that current Mensa members must
be friendly to new Mensa members.  Would that solve the problem?
<said with a look of wide-eyed innocence>
--
Jean L. Cooper    (BITNET: JLC5F@virginia.edu   CIS: 70253,1114)
University of Virginia, Alderman Library, Charlottesville, VA 22903
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books." 
                                           --Carlyle                        
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa