HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Summary: Rendering
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:18:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1993Jan25.181857.13400
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <1993Jan24.140201.21965@netcom.com> mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
>  The reason the rendere is so slow is because it does not take advantage
>of a math co-processor(essential for 3D animation).

Render DOES take advantage of the Math Chip, in fact all of Playmation uses
and requires it (says so on the box).

>  I hear that Rend24
>(which should not be a seperate package) requires a math coprocessor.

It will also use and require a Math Chip.  There were a lot of reasons to
make Render24 separate.  First was that it became 2 entities on the PC,
to support VGA, and the other for broadcast out.  Those are 2 very differnt
groups of people with very different needs.  The same can be said about
Multimedia folks who need output that can play on as many machines
possible and people doing full broadcast output.  We decided to make 
the default renderer simpler for the majority of folks who are doing
multimedia quality output.  The other problems is that Render24 on Amiga
and PC has no interface, it's command-line.  Therefore, I am busily making
a Mac interface for the Mac version, and adding the QuickTime compression
dialog and PICT output options.  Render24 will be out next month, as
will the Decaler module.  Another problem is if we included Render24 and
made the base price $399, then we'd have angry Mac users asking why the
PC people only had to pay $299.  It's hard to please everybody, but we
try.

Anyway, Playmation WITH Render24 is still only $399.  




-- 
 \_       -Ken Baer.  Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises
<[_]   Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP / AppleLink: KENBAER / Office: (206)573-9427
 =# \,  "We're not hitchhiking anymore, we're RIDING!" - Ren Hoak.   
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: watters@cranel.com (David Watters)
Subject: Re: What do I need for DOS 3D animation?
Organization: Cranel, Incorporated, Worthington Ohio
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:29:39 GMT

In article <1k3ffmINNnje@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:

>BTW, if you're such an expert, what are your recommendations? I notice you
>failed to contribute anything except "let the buyer beware."

Easy...

1) If you have a MAC.. use it.
2) If you want to be productive.. buy an Amiga/Toaster setup.
3) If you have a ton of cash.. get an Indigo2 system.
4) If you have a PC... sell it. (see #2)

It's that simple

David
Watters

ps. Again, in my defense.. This is some mail I recieved after mentioning PC
    people pirating 3D studio.

"This is naive, but here goes anyway...I'm pullin' my hair out to
 try to get 3d studio...what to do? Don't have the cash...maybe ...???"

-- 
David R. Watters (watters@cranel.com)    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,alt.cad,comp.graphics.visualization,sci.engr.mech
From: escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (~{BmOHIz~})
Subject: Re: Need CATIA translators
Followup-To: comp.graphics.animation,alt.cad,comp.graphics.visualization,sci.engr.mech
Organization: nanyang technological university
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:35:41 GMT

chris williams (chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: >> 	I'm looking, somewhat desperately, for a CATIA to ALIAS, 
: >> 	WAVEFRONT, DXF, IGES, or just about anything else translator. 
: >> 	The basis for this need is that as part of a large scale 
: >> 	visualization attempt, I would like to bring a CATIA generated model 
: >> 	into either ALIAS or WAVEFRONT for rendering and fly-through 
: >> 	animation.  The model itself is much to large and complicated to 
: >> 	consider generation from scratch in WAVEFRONT or ALIAS.  I am
: >> 	aware of several, outrageously priced, commercial translators,
: >> 	but at $10,000 each these are not really options we can 
: >> 	afford to consider.  So if anyone has any information on
: >> 	reasonably priced or public domain CATIA translators I would
: >> 	love to hear the information.  Even some idea as to the
: >> 	CATIA EXPORT FILE format would be helpful since the makers
: >> 	of CATIA are conspiratorially tight-lipped with any sort of
: >> 	file format information.

:    Sorry, but I don't have anything to offer but my own experience
: converting CATIA files to TDI. We had to send a 9-track tape to France
: in order to do a translation, as the only translator available had to
: run on a mainframe and they had no plans to port it over to a
: workstation. Sorry.

:                                   Chris Williams
:                                      chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu

   Is this the CATIA from MSC/Nastran? I'm interested in this 
   discussion because I also have a project that is using CATIA.


-- 
+================================================================+
DISCLAIMER: Does it matter? Anyway, here it goes : Views/opinions
	    expressed are all mine, unless my employer wants them.
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: robert@slipknot.rain.com (Robert Reed)
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Reply-To: robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed)
Organization: Home Animation Ltd.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:54:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.024907.1777@midway.uchicago.edu> chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu (chris williams) writes:
|In article Robert Reed writes:
|>Weird or different, it's still not as good.  Node selection is not a natural
|>extension of typical point selection techniques, but a completely different
|>and nonintuitive offshoot. 
| 
|   Intuitive in the real sense, or "intuitive" is the Mac-buzzword sense?
|Press the "g" key for group. Press "Return" to un-group all. About two minutes
|to get it, tops.

Well, I only know a little about the "Mac-buzzwords" you refer to, never having
spent much time on macs (mostly UNIX/X and DOS user, with recent experiences in
Windows, which you may argue is an imperfect Mac clone).  But from a strictly
GUI perspective, I know how the PlayMation interface feels w.r.t. other
interfaces I've either used or designed, and it comes up short in terms
of the cognitive steps required to perform simple functions.  And it does also
violate the CUA standards which enhance intuitive transfer of learning skills
between applications, a basic requirement for applications running either under
Windows or on the Macintosh.

|>Spline curvatures are edited by nonintuitive curvature control parameters
|>attached to the nodes, 
| 
|   Complain to Ed Catmull. Catmull-Rom splines behave differently than the
|Bezier splines that you are used to. The advantages of these splines for
|easy objects creation are fairly obvious. Bezier patches are difficult to
|control when you want to create a mesh, while continuity between Catmull
|patches is simple. B-Spline patches have continuity, but require "ghost
|points" outside the object.

No, unless he had something to do with the selection of this splining technique
in PlayMation.  And it may be that Catmull-Rom (AKA Overhauser) splines offer
some computational advantages over Bezier splines, but in this application it is
at the cost of a certain amount of controllability.  But I could even live with
the C-R splines if there was a more intelligent way to add and remove nodes from
a given spline.  But my point was not that C-R splines are uncontrollable, but
that using them infuses a measure of unpredictability into the interface.
Finally, if C-R splines offer some advantage in patch rendering, as B-splines
they can be derived from the Bezier form.
________________________________________________________________________________
Robert Reed			Home Animation Ltd.		503-656-8414
robert@slipknot.rain.com	5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068

I went to a museum once where all the artwork was by children.
It was all put up on refrigerators.
--Steve Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: cs902125@ariel.yorku.ca (SHUK C YIP)
Subject: Re: Matrox Studio
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:13:18 GMT

In article <ksPPXB3w165w@gilligan.tsoft.net> bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net (Jerry Lee) writes:
>
>Well.. the Video toaster can't compare with the Matrox.  The Toaster for 
>one thing can't control any devices such as recorders.  The quality 

The Toaster alone can't do that. However, with extra accessories, it can
do almost anything. Remember, Toaster is backed up by tons of hardware
and software. Certainly, you can also find Toaster related magazine,
reference books, tutorial tapes or training course in US.

>between the two is very great.  From my experience (a hands on demo at 
>school -- we also have one by the way), I would say that the quality of 
>the matrox far surpasses that of the toaster.. besides, anything with a 

Yes, maybe it is not as good as Matrox. However,
1. Toaster has reached boardcast qualtiy standard.
2. The demo which you saw for Toaster is not optimal the output
   qualtiy.

Did you watch BABYLON 5 on TV?
From: philb@cats.ucsc.edu (Philip Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: >>>Amiga Power less than SGIs
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:47:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: as215-ws-10.ucsc.edu


watters@cranel.com (David Watters) writes:

>In article <1993Jan21.113500.20077@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>I will say though that this board looks very promising, and it sounds like it
>is going to edge out the Mac and IBM work alikes due to the Amiga's Zorro III
>bus speed and this boards ability to use smaller compressions and still achive
>30fps.


Or at least it would if Amiga had a competant advertising department

:-)

-- 
  --------------------------------------------------
"Please excuse me Mr. Leslie.. I have a boat waiting" |philb@cats.ucsc.edu
<opens window>...<Swan dive>...    <CRUNCH!>          |philb@soda.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: Jack Palevich <Jack_Palevich@Taligent.Com>
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78CACCE2D02C1CC@kip-10.taligent.com>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 05:19:10 GMT
Organization: Taligent, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:19:05 GMT

I just want to repeat something Scott Kim told me once, in reference to a
product he'd worked on which had a beautiful user interface but
disapointing sales:

 "The most important part of the user interface is it's price."
From: nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Hardware and software question
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:53:47 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo


What computer graphics companies use the PC? What kind of
software & hardware does Wavefront use & what computer do they do
it on? What resolution is the new TV show Babylon 5 going to
have? If anyone has an E-Mail address to any computer graphics
companies can they please send me one.


--
Mark Nowinski
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:02:13 EST
From: Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: 3-D Objects


In article <1993Jan24.132215.21398@netcom.com>, mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev
Lebaredian) says:
>
>cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury) writes:
>: Could somebody tell me where I could get my hands on a mess o'
>: 3d objects?
>
>Does anybody know a place besides the typical imagine mirrors?
>

Does anyone have a list of places (including the "typical imagine mirrors"
since I don't know where they are) were I can find 3d objects and other "neat
stuff" I can use with Imagine?

Please E-mail me if possible.  I don't get a chance to read this group often.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Stoy
President, SlothMonger Software. Inc.
E-Mail address: cms129@psuvm.psu.edu

I heard a wise man once say...

"Nobody wants a war here. We just want to take over their land
 and kill them all."
From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: More Questions
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:34:30 +0200
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi

In article <C19Jyr.Aq0@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:
>
>What computer was the ballroom scene in Disney's Beauty and the
>Beast made on, and what resolution did it use?

Computer surely must be Silicon Graphics; the resolution
is probably at least 3000x1500.

Additional questions which answers you might be interested in to read.
What software was used? (Modeling, rendering?)
Was the chracters hand painted? If so, was there reflected characters,
and if were, then how they compined the computer scene with hand
painted reflections? Any faults/bugs visible there?

I have not seen the movie.


>What computer was the movie Terminator II made on? What graphics
>resolution did it have?

The same as above.
The software for character location digitizing were <?>.
The software for 3D-character animation was Alias.
The software for rendering was RenderMan; they made their special
shaders (textures, etc.) theirself, however.
The software for image editing (removing wires, etc.) were <?>.
The software for morphing were <?>.

The nuclear explosition was done with Mac by 2D-image manipulation.


Juhana Kouhia
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian)
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:44:34 GMT

baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer) writes:
: In article <1993Jan24.140201.21965@netcom.com> mnemonic@netcom.com (Rev Lebaredian) writes:
: >  The reason the rendere is so slow is because it does not take advantage
: >of a math co-processor(essential for 3D animation).
: 
: Render DOES take advantage of the Math Chip, in fact all of Playmation uses
: and requires it (says so on the box).
:

  Hmmm... I guess I was wrong, cause I got the impression from an article
on the MAC version of it that only the 24bit rendere required a math
coprocessor, and assumed that the reason why it ran so dog-slow on an 
amiga version I saw was because it didn't use the math-co.  Do you know
if all of the versions of playmation require a math-co?
From: pinky@tamu.edu (The Man Behind The Curtain)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: Panning in VGA
Date: 24 Jan 1993 00:35:22 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

Thus spake alberto.herranz@fibernet.wa.com (Alberto Herranz) :
>To: dude@hongkong.WPI.EDU (Craig Donald Dubrule)
>
>CDD!Does anyone have any information on panning (scrolling) in the VGA
>   !320x200x256 graphics mode.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>   Did you find any info about ? I'm also VERY interested.
[..]

You might want to look at the XLIB04 library (which uses mode X,
which provides double buffering and higher resolutions as well)
which I believe can be found at nic.funet.com.  Also, if you are
using C++, you might want to take a look at yakIcons.

>        alberto.herranz@fibernet.wa.com

-- 
Till next time,                \o/   \o/
                                V \o/ V     email:pinky@tamu.edu
<>  Sam  Inala  <>                 V

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr)
Subject: What do I need for the PC to do animation?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: comp.graphics.animation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:00:35 GMT

Hi,

I am new to this newsgroup. I am looking for a hardware setup to allow
me to do animation. The purpose is to bring animation to the 386bsd
community.

My hardware setup is:
486/50Mhz 256k cache 8MB 
vga: Actix graphicengine32 (S3 801)
and about 200MB of disk space.

currently, I am running XS3 a fast X server for PCs capable of generating
100k+ xstones. My unix system is 386bsd :-)



Amancio





-- 
This message brought to you by the letters X and S and the number 3
Amancio Hasty           |  
Home: (415) 495-3046    |  ftp-site depository of all my work:
e-mail hasty@netcom.com	|  sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov:/pub/386bsd/incoming
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: jonathan@rahul.net (Jonathan Heiliger)
Subject: Re: Matrox Studio
Reply-To: jonathan@mecca.epri.com
Organization: Electric Power Research Institute
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:42:16 GMT

Jerry Lee (bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net) wrote:
> nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:

> Well.. the Video toaster can't compare with the Matrox.  The Toaster for 
> one thing can't control any devices such as recorders.  The quality 

   Technically it can.  It must be connected to an editor that supports a GPI 
interface, which I believe is the same thing for Matrox. 

> address to the company as soon as possible.. (by Monday for sure).  All I 
> know right now is that they are located in Canada and it costs around 
> $20K; the key word is around since the actual system that we have at 
> school cost more around $25-30K.

   Depending on configuration, it will run you approximately $15k.

-- 
Jonathan Heiliger .... Electric Power Research Institute
Internet: jonathan@mecca.epri.com -/- jonathan@rahul.net
Telephone <*> [415].855.2888

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
From: chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu (chris williams)
Subject: Re: Macintosh PlayMation experience
Organization: FCIA Univ. of Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:49:07 GMT

 
In article Robert Reed writes:
>In article chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu (chris williams) writes:
>|In article  Jack Palevich <Jack_Palevich@Taligent.com> writes:
>|>Cons:
>|> * Weird user interface. Doesn't work like a Mac program. Limited Undo.
>|
>|    Different user interface. Most parts of the Mac paradime don't
>|apply. Most 3D programs have *no* undo at all.
 
>Weird or different, it's still not as good.  Node selection is not a natural
>extension of typical point selection techniques, but a completely different
>and nonintuitive offshoot. 
 
   Intuitive in the real sense, or "intuitive" is the Mac-buzzword sense?
Press the "g" key for group. Press "Return" to un-group all. About two minutes
to get it, tops.
 
>Spline curvatures are edited by nonintuitive curvature control parameters
>attached to the nodes, 
 
   Complain to Ed Catmull. Catmull-Rom splines behave differently than the
Bezier splines that you are used to. The advantages of these splines for
easy objects creation are fairly obvious. Bezier patches are difficult to
control when you want to create a mesh, while continuity between Catmull
patches is simple. B-Spline patches have continuity, but require "ghost
points" outside the object.
 
>There is pointer based control of these
>curvature parameters, but it's a crude second order effect (e.g., you 
>move the cursor back and forth, and the curvature parameter is modified
>over SOME range, which shows up as some one or two axis flex of the curve.
 
   I have built *many* objects, and have *yet* to use the curve controls.
I suspect that you are trying to force the Catmull-Rom splines to behave as
Bezier patches, and are getting frustrated. Read up on Catmull-Rom patches.
(...and why you shouldn't put <tab>'s in an ASCII forum)
 
>________________________________________________________________________________
>Robert Reed                    Home Animation Ltd.             503-656-8414
>robert@slipknot.rain.com       5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068
>
>When I'm really bored, I hope to drive downtown, get a great parking spot,
>then sit in my car and count how many people asked me if I'm leaving.
>--Steve Wright
>________________________________________________________________________________
 
                             Chris Williams
                              chrisw@fciad2.bsd.uchicago.edu
From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Canceled articles
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:52:03 +0200
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi


Hi,

I have canceled six articles from comp.graphics.animation.
The articles did contain binary data for fli-animations.

Comp.graphics.animation was not greated for posting binaries
and thus it was not place for those articles.

I suggest that the animations are distributed via personal e-mail
or via FTP (or FTP-mail) -- post the announce on availability
of animations here.

Drop your animations to wuarchive.wustl.edu:graphics/incoming (or
such) for American sites, and to nic.funet.fi:pub/graphics/incoming
for European sites.

Sorry for the trouble, but the Net rules rules ok.

Juhana Kouhia
From: kiki@csa.bu.edu (Keith Baccki)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: Matrox Studio
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:17:42 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <ksPPXB3w165w@gilligan.tsoft.net> bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net (Jerry Lee) writes:
>nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:
>
>> 
>> Does any one use Matrox Studio? Is it better than the Video
>> Toaster? How much does it cost? Can animation like LightWave 3D

>know right now is that they are located in Canada and it costs around 
>$20K; the key word is around since the actual system that we have at 
>school cost more around $25-30K.


	Well, you get what you pay for: that price is 10 X what the
toaster costs...


				keith
From: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation
Subject: Re: Matrox Studio
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:42:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa794@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net (Jerry Lee) says:

>nowinski@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Nowinski) writes:
>
>> 
>> Does any one use Matrox Studio? Is it better than the Video
>> Toaster? How much does it cost? Can animation like LightWave 3D
>> be done on it? Does any one have the companies E-Mail address?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>
>Well.. the Video toaster can't compare with the Matrox.  The Toaster for 
>one thing can't control any devices such as recorders.  The quality 
>between the two is very great.  From my experience (a hands on demo at 
>school -- we also have one by the way), I would say that the quality of 
>the matrox far surpasses that of the toaster.. besides, anything with a 
>"sheep wipe" ... well. you gotta wonder huh?  <-  The sheep thing is on 
>the toaster by the way. =)  I'll try to get you the phone number and 
>address to the company as soon as possible.. (by Monday for sure).  All I 
>know right now is that they are located in Canada and it costs around 
>$20K; the key word is around since the actual system that we have at 
>school cost more around $25-30K.

Yow! $25K-$30K? Somebody want to 'splain to me what this system offers over
dedicated video equipment?  Also, does this mountain of cash include the
DOS machine as well?

I guess when you've got a *polytechnical* college footing the bills, you
don't have to worry about costs. BTW, where is CPC?

>
>One more note.. the Matrox is capable of A-B-C rolls (two sources and 1 
>recorder)
>
>Computer and Video Imaging Major
>Cogswell Polytechnical College.
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>EMAIL: jele@eis.calstate.edu
>Internet: bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org
>UUCP    : ...apple!tsoft!bbs.mirage
>
-- 
Pete Nofel, aa794, primary sysop
It's a Mystery - The Mystery Literature Group
Cleveland Freenet, Cleveland Ohio
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation