HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian band at Inaugural:  Musings and Details
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:45:58 CST

In article <rizzoe.580.724600003@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU>
rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
>
>After reading Steven's wonderful post on how his band will  go to the 
>Inaugural, it occurred to me that if a small community can hold bake sales 
>and car washes to send their high school marching band to the Macy's 
>Thanksgiving Day Parade, surely we can make sure that the Gay/Lesbian Band
>and its members can go in style.  So, Steve, can you please publicly post 
>an address for contributions?  I'll pass on the bake sale, but I will be 
>happy to write a check!  


Emily --

Thanks for your show of support and enthusiasm!  I'm a little
bit overwhelmed (as you can tell by my use of an exclamation point).

This is the story:  The band that will be performing at the
Inaugural is not a single band, per se, but what we usually
call the LGBA "festival" band:  representatives from the
different lesbian/gay bands throughout the country who meet
to play together.   Although we are working to change this,
currently all funding and fundraising to get people to these
gatherings -- in style or otherwise -- comes from the individual
bands.  The LA Band, for example, is actively soliciting donations
from the gay community of LA to sponsor musicians
from their band to represent California at the Inaugural. 

So there are two answers to your question:

1.  Donations to the national band organization -- Lesbian
    and Gay Bands of America -- can be sent to LGBA, PO Box 57099,
    Washington DC 20037-0099.  Donations earmarked for
    the Inaugural would probably be used to pay for music
    and rehearsal space.  Sad to say, there is no procedure
    in place for distributing donations to the member bands
    to defray transportation costs (which is the biggest need).

2.  I am confident that any of the individual bands would be
    thrilled to have donations, even donations restricted to getting its
    members to Washington.  There are currently active bands
    in the following cities, and I would be happy to
    provide addresses and contact names to anyone who asks via email:

       Baltimore
       Boston 
       Chicago (a very small group currently)
       Dallas
       Denver
       Houston
       Los Angeles (2 bands)
       Long Beach
       Miami/Fort Lauderdale
       Minneapolis/St. Paul
       New York City
       Philadelphia
       Portland OR
       San Diego
       San Francisco (2 bands)
       Tampa Florida
       Vancouver BC (I do not know if they will want to send representation)
       Washington DC

    There are also small groups in Atlanta, Cleveland, and Phoenix,
    but I am not certain whether they are actively rehearsing at
    the moment.

Thanks for asking for this, Emily.  The publicity surrounding our
presence at this event is starting to take off.

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com

       
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: New York University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:43:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.210854.18532@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:


>Salmon Dip Breasts (with cherry tomatoes for nipples)

This reminds me of an Italian dish I had in a very expensive restaurant in 
Little Italy (that's in New York).  It was called "Mounds of Venus" and 
started with two slices of veal covered with fresh mozarella mounds 
appropriately cone shaped and topped with an olive slice.  It was 
absolutely delicious but it was a strange sensation cutting into it.
There's also an Italian pastry (I don't know the official name) which 
looks exactly like a breast and its done with white and pink icing.  

Emily
  
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright)
Subject: Re: Motss food
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:55:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.185332.2356@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) 
writes:

>
>	There's nothing like going down a a freahly-baked cruller.
>
>
>	(Well, I *am*!  OK - so it' snot fresh, who has time to be picky!)
                                    ^^^^

Oh YUM!


:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|                                   \                                         |
| INTERNET: albrigh@ucs.indiana.edu  \    I believe in reincarnation, and     |
|   BITNET: albrigh@iubacs           /\   I'm coming back as a pansy.  AGAIN! |
|                                   /  \                                      |
(-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-:

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From:  (K andrews)
Subject: europa, europa
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 11:38:08 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
Followup-To: soc.motss

YEs, the guy in europa europa is definitely one to dream about.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Alma Gluck and other stuff
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:06:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.003446.3060@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) describes someone 
>(now deceased) that he used to know:
> >who was probably the single nastiest,
> >most opinionated opera queen who ever lived.  He makes me
> >look like Mara.
>It's a stunning image.  If you've seen my gif you'll find it even
>stunning-er.

Mental note: remember to try Morphing Mara into Arne and vice versa
when the software arrives...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52079 alt.politics.homosexuality:7895
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 12 Dec 1992 20:01:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

Note: please redirect all followups to: alt.politics.homosexuality

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
> So Heather, in first grade, deserves to be subjected
> to teasing and pain by other children because of the
> fact of her parents being of the same gender?  

Greg, did you read what I wrote?  I've been saying that what 
should be taught is that *all* people should be respected for
who they are, *period*.  From this you derive that I think kids
of gay parent-households should be teased?  

There's something that doesn't fit here, either.  From "Heather 
has 2 mommies" kids aren't supposed to pick up on any sexual/gay
overtones, just that heather has 2 mommies that love each other
and her? Yet, these same kids are supposed to be able to tell that  
the child in question has gay parents, and know to tease them
for that? I can see this from older kids.   

> Or she
> is to learn what gays and lesbians learn - to hide,
> to be ashamed or embarrassed.

She is to learn that *all* people are vaulable and should be 
respected, even if you disagree with/dislike things that they 
do.  And her classmates should learn the same.  

> Do you think it's the place of the schools to teach that
> children live in many different types of homes, some religious,
> some not, some with one parent, some with two, some same-sex
> parents, some not?  

And some with a dog and some without, some in the poor end of town, 
some in the rich?  Some with mixed-race parents, some without?  Some 
with new clothes, some with old?  Some with tall parents, some short?  
No, I don't.  They should teach that *all* people are vaulable and 
should be respected, even if they are different from you.  Covers 
all the bases, without setting anyone off, or needing to specifically
categorize people into little frames.  

> Do you object to children being taught about Jews and 
> religious intolerance, even if some of the parents
> may be holocaust revisionists?  

I think this might go over the head of 1st graders a bit.  Sounds like 
a subject for a later history or sociology class. 

> Do you object to children
> being taught that black people are not inferior, even
> if some of the parents are racists and supremicists?

If you teach that *all* people are vaulable and should be respected,
you leave no room for such an attitude.  

Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Canadian minister says... say what?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:16:29 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca


Recently, the Canadian Human Rights Act was amended to include sexual  
orientation, but gay marriage was excluded. Our justice minister, Kim  
Cambell, recently wrote this to the Vancouver Sun, where she masterfully  
says almost nothing:

**********
In your Dec. 11 editorial "Cambell walks on political tightrope" you say  
of my recently tabled legislation to amend the Federal Human Rights Act:  
"But while the legislation prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual  
orientation, it specifically disqualifies same-sex marriages - thereby  
denying gay couples the benefits that hetersexuals receive merely by  
saying "I do"."

This may lead your readers into the mistake belief that the new amendments  
were designed to legally bar benefits for gay couples. Many critics have  
pointed out that some gay people have children and live in family  
situations, and that it would be an injustice for the Human Rights Act to  
pretend otherwise.

I am in complete agreement with this last point, and for that reason  
rejected the suggestion that the scope of gay rights should be formally  
limited in the act by defining family status in heterosexual terms. 

There is no definition of "family status" or "spouse" in the amending  
bill. The legislation explicitly prohibits discrimination on the basis of  
a person's sexual orientation. It excludes claims on the basis of marital  
status, but there are no definitions or other provisions to restrict  
claims on the basis of family status, including spousal relationships.

The question of human rights protection for gays as individuals is now  
completely and absolutely settled in Canadian society, period. The  
question of protection for benefits for gay couples is now open for  
development, in law and policy, on the basis of familial or spousal  
relatedness.

The isn't to prjudge where we all come out - lots of politics and  
lawyering are ahead of all of us who are concerned with these issues. But  
it tells us what the context and framework will be for that important  
work. It is not a framework that closes the door on gay benefits.

Kim Cambell
Minister of Justice
Ottawa

*****************


Now look at this paragraph again:

"There is no definition of "family status" or "spouse" in the amending  
bill. The legislation explicitly prohibits discrimination on the basis of  
a person's sexual orientation. It excludes claims on the basis of marital  
status, but there are no definitions or other provisions to restrict  
claims on the basis of family status, including spousal relationships."

Does anyone, Canadian or not, have any idea of what the *hell* this means?

Canadian politics. Sheesh.

-Anthony

Xref: sparky soc.motss:52111 soc.bi:16472
From: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Subject: Shyster (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs))
Reply-To: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:08:06 GMT

I apologize for picking up on a relatively small point in Ms. Shore's 
recent post, but it seems important to me.  I have changed the subject
line, so that this should _not_ derail discussion of her main topic.

In article <1992Dec15.164311.13759@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
|> 
|> BTW, on the subject of insensitivity, I think it does
|> indicate that sometimes men will go out of their way to
|> indulge the women for fear of appearing anti-woman that
|> nobody has called you on the "shyster" thing.  Unlike
|> "cabal," which may or may not have roots in "kabbalah"
|> but isn't obviously anti-Jewish, "shyster" is quite
|> obviously antisemitic and I, for one, am not comfortable
|> with its use.
|>

I wasn't aware that "shyster" was an antisemitic term.  (And I
hasten to point out that I am Jewish, so I would expect to be
somewhat aware of such things.  If I'm wrong, it's innocence, 
not insensitivity.  For similar reasons, I don't perceive the
word "cocksucker" as derogatory, either.)

I just checked my dictionary (Webster's Ninth Collegiate, published by 
Merriam-Webster).  It gives the coinage in English as 1843, describing it
as probably an alteration of the earlier shicer, meaning "comtemptible
fellow", which is derived from the German Scheisser, which literally means
"defacator."  There is no mention of antisemitic connotations.

Perhaps you are mistaken?  I can think of two reasons:
1) There is the word "shylock", taken from the name of the character in
Shakespeare's _Merchant of Venice_.  This term is antisemitic; Shylock 
is a Jew.

2) [And this gets into ethnic stereotypes.  It may appear insensitive, but
note the context--I'm trying to make a point.]  I tend to associate the 
term "shyster" with unscrupulous lawyers.  At one time (the 1920's?), 
there was a popular assumption that many Jewish lawyers were unscrupulous.
Perhaps the phrase "Jewish shyster" (more likely, and more derogatorily,
"Jew shyster", or "Yid shyster", but I digress) became standard and the
word "shyster" acquired antisemitic overtones from that.

I would judge this similar to considering the term "gangster" anti-Italian
because, at one time, the popular conception wast that organized crime was
dominated by Italians.  

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Subject: Re: Are there any "cures" for homosexuality?
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:18:47 GMT

In article <71569@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling) writes:
>
>Nice try, bucko!  Here, hold my place in the Clue Line,
>and watch out for meteors.
>

   If they were *meteorites* Frank, I'd have something to worry about.

   Wayne
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Porno for women vs. Women's porno
Date: 13 Dec 92 09:41:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec13.094148.13922
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Dec12.202734.3324@u.washington.edu> rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld) writes:
>I have been e-mailing chatting with a few people recently on the subject of
>slash (hi Nelson, sarah, Kelly...) and thought to myself, why bore three
>people, when there are thousands on the net to bore...

great! I don't worry any more if my posts entertain anyone - I just
blithely post what comes to mind. But here you are, posting actual
motss relevant stuff. Amazing. (psst, someone get her a pod.)

>Blake's 7 also has a huge amount of fan fiction.  Much of this is straight
>but again, much of it involves same sex characters on the show.  Virtually
>all of these stories are written by women, virtually all of these stories
>are read by women, and much of it is the best porn I can find! 

Can you give us fandom-ignorant folks an idea where we could acquire
slash? How does one tell if it's going to be good? I get the
impression this is not the sort of thing that's published widely..

[Avon/Vila story deleted. Sigh.]

>What makes this "female porn"? I guess, the huge emotional component of 
>virtually all of the stories.

damn, wish I could find more "female porn". Maybe I should start
reading On Our Backs..

>This is not a typical plot, except for the fact that the emotion is
>as, or more important than the sex.

But I see your point. A good portion of gay male porn is pretty empty,
especially the movies. There's a certain charm in reading about or
watching men do nothing but simply *fuck*, but I prefer things with
emotional context, and hopefully emotional interest.

>Maybe the pacing as well.  For those out there (who got this far)
>does the pacing seem slower than 'real' male porn?

Hard for me to say from the sample you posted - it seems like a small
vignette from a much larger story. For that matter, I don't know that
I know enough about `real' male porn to make an authoritative
statement about the way it is paced.

I've been reading some fun stuff recently, a collection of queer male
porn called "Flesh and the Word." It's edited by the same guy who did
Hometowns, and I think it's pretty good. There's one really hot
S&M-type story titled "Blue Light" that originally ran in (I think)
Drummer. Most of the other stories are pretty good, including more
emotion than I expected to find in humpy porn. (Yes, it will get you
off). Buy it if you've been thinking about it.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
From: jbct+@andrew.cmu.edu (John R. Beer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Porno for women vs. Women's porno
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:36:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sf=ElXq00VpC01wUgc
	<1992Dec14.021753.8255@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Misc. student, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

In <1992Dec14.021753.8255@u.washington.edu> Sandra Hereld:
>There are a couple of scholarly books out recently about media fandom; >they
>both mention slash fandom (one even has pictures of slash art--Napolean >and 
>Illya, remember them?) Both writers talk about how they'd been doing >research
>for years before any of their fan connections would tell them about (or
>show them examples of) slash.  The books are Enterprising Women, by >Camille
>Bacon-Smith, and Textual Poachers by Henry Jenkins.  I recommend >them both
>for anyone interested in the creation of popular myths.

Constance Penley has also written about slash fandom--I don't know
exactly where, but Andy Ross makes references to her work in his
own (rather brief) discussion of the stuff in his book "No Respect".

john (who hopes you're all impressed with his pop-culture-studies-hipness)

--------------------------------------------------------

john beer
dept. of philosophy
univ. of pittsburgh
jrbst23@vm3.cis.pitt.edu
jbct@andrew.cmu.edu

"Your mother wants to know/
 What are those stains on your jeans/
 'Cause you're an orgasm addict.."
                 --Buzzcocks
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53073 soc.bi:16848 misc.legal:21521
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 06:54:10 GMT

In article <1gvtshINN5is@crcnis1.unl.edu>
cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe) writes:

>soc.motss reminds me of a gigantic cocktail party where one may drift 

Hm, he sets himself up for a contradiction, methinks.

>Changing the 
>analogy but keeping the sense of variety: soc.motts is a great 

While I'm inclined to say "fiddlesticks," here "applesauce"
fits better!  :-)

>smorgasbord and one can feast or nibble at will.  I'd hate to see it 
>broken into a chain of fast food joints.

Perhaps you could think of it as a selection of exotic
cuisines, rather than interchangeable nourishment units.

>But the volume is daunting.  Perhaps the thing to do is decide upon 
>fixed leader words for subject/keyword headings.  [...]
>Those who failed to submit to the discipline of the 
>leader word identifier would simply be skipped over and suffer the 
>purgatory of being unread and deprived of replies.

Hardly in keeping with the cocktail party analogy, I would
say, unless you go to very disciplined parties, which is so
... Teutonic.

>It may be argued that the volume is indicative of the
>success of soc.motss.  If so, then we should be chary of
>changing something that is working so well.

Glad you said "if," because I don't think success is the
primary source of the volume.  I'm pretty sure we had 400
articles in one day last week.  Even if half of that was
success speaking, it's rather a lot.

The proposed division will, I suspect, not markedly reduce
the total volume, though I think some discipline about
cross-posting and avoiding getting engaged with notorious
harassers will.  Rather, the point of dividing is to render
the substance more accessible.  The library would contain
just as many books if there were no catalog order, but many
fewer books would be read, I feel sure.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: weird trees
Keywords: aluminum, tacky, unfathomable
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:19:30 GMT

In article <17572@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Is there any greater mystery that haunts this season
>than: why the aluminum Christmas tree?

I think that the greatest mystery that haunts THIS Season is NOT aluminum
Xmas trees.  ;)

season



-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Re: Aladdin (was Re: Jason and the Argonauts)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:48:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.235201.5875@dvorak.amd.com> tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:
>>
>>"I am getting pretty fond of you, kid.... *Not* that I am ready to 
>>pick-out curtains or anything, you know" 
>>                  -the Blue Genie to Aladdin
>
>I definitely caught this one the first time AND the second time.  It
>wasn't IMHO anything worse than Men on Films type humor... it was 
>a little stereotypical, but was not otherwise attacking.  I wouldn't
>think that it would be negative to a g/l youth.
>

Yes.  I agree.

>As a side point... I hate to admit it, but I am absolutely in love
>with Aladdin... can't decide if it is the singer or the voice-over
>guy or even the animation guy... 
>
>Tom
>

Oh honey, me too.  I've seen it twice, and I'm ready to go back.  For
some reason, he's quite the cartoon hunk.  It's funny: one of my good
straight friends who I've strongly suspected of having "those"
tendencies has seen the movie three times already, and is obviously
infatuated with Aladdin.  He has pictures up and everything.  I just
sit back and :).

--scoT 


-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
From: griffith@plains.NoDak.edu (John Griffith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Legos
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:38:24 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Dec10.234008.19851@cabezon.uucp> kenr@cabezon.uucp (Ken Richards) writes:
>So I'm sitting here looking at all the new Lego kits I bought for myself
>and am wondering: A 28 year old Lego Maniac - is this a gay thing or just an 
>engineering geek thing?
>
I'm an engineer and I like Legos.  I also like Lincoln Logs and yo-yos.
-- 
John W. Griffith		          	griffith@plains.nodak.edu
                                                ud136834@ndsuvm1
"There aren't enough Crustacean-Americans on postage stamps!"
					--Lenny the Lobster