HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: A B.S. is not enough to do research?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: world, local
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:26:50 GMT

In article <pptx7x=@rpi.edu>, maniattb@cs.rpi.edu (Bill Maniatty) writes:
|> My interviewing experiences are after my Bachelors in Computer Science, and
|> before my graduate school experiences.  While a B.S. is not enough to do
|> research, I have some experiences which people may be interested in.

I think this notion that people whose formal schooling only extends up to a
certain level are not able to do research, is dead wrong. The qualities that
make a good researcher, creativity, ability to select topics, ability to cope
with failures, knowledge of the field, do not necessarily have anything to do
with one's formal education. There are PhD's that are not capable researchers,
and there are the self-educated types one occasionally runs across in industry
who can outperform any new PhD. Most of the people who will ultimately become
great researchers, should be able to pick up enough from their undergraduate
research experiences to produce first rate work.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: sasjmg@dickens.unx.sas.com (Jodie Gilmore)
Subject: attention, K. Gopalakrishnan
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:06:05 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

My apologies for posting this, but I had no other choice.


Attention, K. Gopalakrishnan: I have lost your email address,
and the stuff I sent you via snail mail (US Mail) was returned
"no such address"--please email me your correct snail mail address,
if you want me to try again.

Jodie Gilmore
sasjmg@unx.sas.com
-- 
Jodie Gilmore
sasjmg@unx.sas.com

**********************************************************************
From: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Careers in environmental science--Science mag.
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:53:49 GMT
Reply-To: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Followup-To: sci.research.careers
Organization: Boston University

Since this worked well for me, my colleague will try a posting....

Attenion environmental scientists

My name is Richard Stone and I'm a staffwriter at Science Magazine. The 
reason I'm hailing you is to ask for help with an article on careers in
environmental careers. But I'm hung on a few minor details:

--how do you define "environmental science"
--in what durection is the field moving
--where are the jobs? inn industry? governement? academia?
--are there subdisciplines in envir. science that are vastly
undersatffed or overstaffed.

I'm interested in hearing your answers to these and any others questions
I've neglected to ask. please call me ASAP at 202-326-6593 or fax me reply
at 202-371-9227. You can also email a friend of mine at
 jstravis@bu-pub.bu.edu

Thanks for the help and feel free to circulate this among your colleagues
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: maniattb@cs.rpi.edu (Bill Maniatty)
Subject: Re: Getting Faculty Position. What is the secret ?
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:10:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.115035.4033@athena.mit.edu>, solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
|> In article <14qb43INN4m7@network.ucsd.edu>, mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) writes:
|> |> rr2@cec2.wustl.edu (Rajamiyer Ravichandran) writes:
|> |> : 	I am currently in the second year of searching for a
|> |> : faculty position in Structural Mechanics and Solid Mechanics
|> |> : disciplines. I have a D.Sc with Six publications (Two of them
|> |> : are refreed journal papers and two more are on the way).
	[stuff deleted]
|> There are atleast 20 people in the nation my age (18) who already have 6
|> publications and at least one who has 18 publications. Typically, these
|> papers (even ones which were published solo) are not of the highest quality.
	[more stuff deleted]
|> until recently). The moral of the story is that COUNTING PAPERS SUCKS AS A
|> CRITERION.
|> 
|> Jason W. Solinsky
	Just a few questions:
		1).  Where do these people publish?   These are impressive
numbers, and I'm just curious.  How did you acquire the statistics?
		(Not doubtful, just amazed, congratulations to them!)
		2).  I was under the impression that quality is as important
as quantity when it comes to publications.  Is that true, and if so, what sorts
of metrics are used to determine quality?
		3).  Please note that I am a C.S. grad student.  Does C.S.
have any special publication criteria?

	Bill

-- 
|
|	maniattb@cs.rpi.edu - in real life Bill Maniatty
|
From: gerlek@ogicse.ogi.edu (Michael Gerlek)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: STOP!... Please.
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:05:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.40387
Organization: Tanasbourne Graduate Institue -- Beaverton, Oregon

In article <22JUL199208173449@zeus.tamu.edu> slh5087@zeus.tamu.edu writes:
>I think the subject line pretty much says it all...  

Perfectly!

>Before this flame war began, I was thoroughly enjoying this group...

Me, too.  But I'm about ready to hit 'u' on sci.res.careers.  Even
aside from the flames and lawsuit threats (good grief!), most of the
posts are too long to be worth the time.  As a grad student, some of
the info appearing has been useful and informative for me -- but not
enough to make it worth sorting the wheat from the chaff.  It's a
shame this group wasn't made a moderated group -- but who would've
guessed it'd be like this?

First the endless revisionism wars, now this.  

Sigh.  We're s'posed to be "scientists", remember?  Scientific
discourse, informed debate, and all that?  It's really a pretty poor
showing for ourselves.
-- 

-[mpg]
 gerlek@cse.ogi.edu
 "Everything _and_ the girl."
From: jstravis@bu-pub.bu.edu (John Travis)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: The life of a Postdoc?????-help
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:18:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University

Hi everyone. Here'a an opportunity for postdocs to get all their
gripes off their chests. I'm a writer for Science magazine and
for our upcoming special issues on Careers in Science I'm writing
an article broadly titled "The Lot of a Postdoc" So tell me what's good
and bad about being a POSTDOC IN 1992.  Some of the obvious issues I'm looking
for input on are:
Money woes
Foreign Postdocs--do you look for the same benefits out of your experience
US Postdocs in Europe
Multiple Postdocs!!!
Postdoc while trying to raise/support a family
Postdocs in industry
Postdocs in small schools, big schools, small and big labs

Innundate me with email, a call or a fax and perhaps we'' talk in depth
about youtr situation in particular.

work 617-288-7939
fax   617-288-7768

Thanks for helping me get a good snapshot of postdoc life.

John Travis
Science (Northeast Bureau)
From: primeaux@duncan.cs.utk.edu (David Primeaux)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Interview Experiences? / Marketing a diverse background
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:47:00 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world, local
Reply-To: primeaux@duncan.cs.utk.edu (David Primeaux)
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Keywords: Resumes

[good resume layout/printing suggestions from Ed, Jon and Joseph deleted]

Thanks to Ed, Jon and Joseph for their suggestions concerning resumes.
I'd like to encourage anyone else with suggestions on this topic to 
post them.

I'll be graduating soon with a PhD in CS (specialization in pattern analysis
making extensive use of high performance computers).  I also have a PhD in
philosophy (specialization in of science and theory of knowledge).  I have 
teaching experience in both fields and some (unrelated) managerial experience.
I returned to graduate school so that when finished I could find a teaching
position (seemed likely at the time).  Now, like so many of us, I am wondering
if I'll get a job.  Does anyone have suggestions with regard to marketing
myself for a position in education or in industry?


E-mail or post.  Thanks....
David
primeaux@cs.utk.edu
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: ak45ldp@Texaco.com (Larry D. Pyeatt)
Subject: Re: What kind of support do grad students in different fields get?
Organization: Texaco
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:55:58 GMT

I am in Computer Science.

When I was working on my Master's, I started at about $800 per month during
the academic year as a TA.  By the time I finished my degree, I was pulling
in a whopping $1000 per month as an RA.  Suddenly, the money dried up.  
Several graduate students had to quit before graduating.  Others scrambled
for summer internships.  I was close to graduating and just stuck to my guns 
for a few months without any income.  I hear that things are a little better 
now, but I really don't know for sure.

-- 
Larry D. Pyeatt                 The views expressed here are not
Internet : pyeatt@texaco.com    those of my employer or of anyone
Voice    : (713) 975-4056       that I know of with the possible
                                exception of myself.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Getting Faculty Position. What is the secret ?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 09:02:02 GMT


|> 	Just a few questions:
|> 		1).  Where do these people publish?   These are impressive
|> numbers, and I'm just curious.  How did you acquire the statistics?
|> 		(Not doubtful, just amazed, congratulations to them!)

One third of the statistics are from personal acquaintance, the rest were
personal acquaintances of that third. (I did pretty well myself, its just
that the high volume people are mathematicians and biochemists, never fields
which require more extensive background. Typically the mathematicians are
entirely self eduacated [I was in the top 100 nationally in math as a high
schooler so on a couple of occasions met the really high ups and let me tell
you, they blow EVERYBODY out of the water. WOW.] and the biochemists were
taught the field very well but from an ultra-narrow focus by a faculty person.)

|> 		2).  I was under the impression that quality is as important
|> as quantity when it comes to publications.  Is that true, and if so, what
|> sorts of metrics are used to determine quality?

I don't know, but my point is that quality should definitely be considered
much more important than quantity. I don't want to rag on the work of my
friends. A number of the papers are of vastly superior quality and were
published in "the" journal in the field, but these are a small minority [<5%]
of the total. In a number of cases, the names wound up as coauthors, just
because they happened to work for that primary author. An interesting note is
that amongst the precollegians that I knew, three authors of what I would
call "really high quality papers" only published that one paper before
going to college. Some of the high volume people never approached this
quality.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Subject: Re: Interview Experiences?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world, local
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:18:53 GMT

tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:

>Absolutly...  Always try to  1) put money discussions to the very last
>and 2) try to get them to make the offer.  If you want to get an idea
>of what they are thinking, ask about the salary range for the position.
>If they ask you, say that it depends on things like cost of living in
>the area, advancement potential, benefits, the requirements of the 
>position.  They will usually think that a professional answer and drop
>the topic.  If not, give *them* a range. 

>>>disclosing your current salary,

>If pressed on this, simply give a rough figure.  If you make say 55K,
>say "Oh, in the fifties" in a matter of fact way.  If they were thinking
>in terms of 50K then you haven't blown anything (if they want you they will
>often, after reviewing the other candidates, reconsider the salary that 
>they had previously set) and if they were thinking in terms of 65K, you 
>haven't told them "Gee, I'll work cheap!" because for all that they know
>you may make 59K.

I wouldn't tell them what I was currently earning.  At most, I would 
tell them what the "standard" salary range was for my profession.  They
should already know that anyway.  (If not, they haven't done their 
homework and you don't want to work for them!)  Then I would probably
add that I wasn't average and just smile sweetly.

						--  Michal

Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Interview Experiences?
Keywords: interview, acadmics, industry
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Distribution: world,local
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:28:41 GMT

In article <24094@castle.ed.ac.uk> egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:
>In article <22JUL199215010797@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu> merolajs@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (JOSEPH S. MEROLA DEPT OF CHEMISTRY VPI&SU) writes:
>>specialties.   Second, call the institution and speak with the
>>department chair and/or the chair of the search committee.  Discuss
>>your qualifications and how they might fit in. (Personal contact is
>>much more effective in getting your qualifications considered.  At the
>>very least, this may spur someone into giving your application a
>>second look.  Third, use chemical society meetings effectively to get
>
>	Some application forms and job particulars over here say canvassing
>in any form disqualifies you. Be careful lest this tactic be considered
>canvassing (As it will be in the very large number of cases where the
>job is already allocated but has to be advertised and interviews have to
>be held, for legal reasons).
>:wq

Yea, but if the job has already been allocated (by which I presume you mean
someone has already been picked - why do acedemics write like that?:-),
then what difference does it make what you do? In any case, the best way
to handle it, if you're going to call, is just to ask if they got your
letter, and, if so is there anything you can add, and do they want to
set up an interview. I don't think this could be called canvassing, but maybe
I'm wrong. Personally, I wouldn't do it. I think you have about equal chance
of getting an interview and pissing the person off. And chances are you 
don't actually have the phone number of the important person anyway.

If you're really qualified they should see that from your resume, and if
not, calling isn't going to help.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: Interview Experiences?
Keywords: interview, acadmics, industry
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Distribution: world, local
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:51:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.035300.231@news.acns.nwu.edu> drt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Toreki) writes:
>	I'm looking for people's experiences with job interviews.  My interest
>is academia, but given the breadth of backgrounds and experiences, I'm sure
>people want to hear something related to industry.  To keep things succinct
>and rolling let's try to limit things to either an overall perspective or
>focus on one or two that really stand out or are representative.  Some
>questions I have are:
>
>	When you presented your previous work, did you focus on your grad
>	or postdoc stuff...or maybe mix it up?
>
>	I assume you present and/or defend your proposals.  How aggressive
>	is the questioning?  Are they looking for the general goal or did
>	some try to shoot you on one or two more specific points?
>
>	How did the faculty react when you chatted with them?
>
>	What do you think most influenced your candidacy for the slot?

I don't have a grad degree, but have been in about 10 interviews, about half of
which were in acedemia and half in industry. In every single case all they really
sat up and listened to was experience directly relavent to the job. Other stuff
is nice, but when it came right down to it, all they cared about was have I done
this type of work on this type of machine. "I learn quickly" is about the last
thing they wanted to hear.

I only had really tough questioning on one occasion, and that was for a job I
wasn't really qualified for. If you're not qualified, don't waste their time and
yours. It's easy to fake a little, but not a lot.

ALWAYS wear a suit. Even if no one else there does. It's a job interview, and you
can't be too dressed-up.

			Ed Hartnett


Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: siskind@eos4.larc.nasa.gov (David Siskind)
Subject: excessive academic focus (was: Re: Bad children, no career!)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:16:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.045248.14172@cs.cornell.edu> karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.134114.4301@bb1t.monsanto.com> tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>>Boy, was I excited when this newsgroup first appeared...  Now I'm sick
>>and tired and disgusted.
>
>Me too.
>More generally, I'd like to hear ANYONE currently in the field
>describe what a good research-oriented career might include, not
>necessarily in academia.  Descriptions of a few actual persons' career
>paths (names not required), for example, would be a welcome break from
>attempts to forecast the global economy into the next century.
>
I too am surprised at the obssessing over academia that is going on in 
this group. Folks, just because your professors think everyone should just
be like them, doesn't make that true!!

I got my Ph.D at the University of Colorado's astronomy department in 1988
and have been fortunate to find good jobs working for the gov't. First NASA
and now at the Naval Research Lab (still using a NASA computer link!). The
work environment is relaxed, you are encouraged to do cutting edge research
and publish as often as you can. Funding is not as secure as tenure, but much
more secure than soft money/post doc -type positions. Similarly academic
freedom is not unlimited , as supposedly as at a university, but is still
considerable- and probably much more than at a private company (provided
you stay away from classified research- that I couldn't recommend)

In terms of research topics, we all know there is nothing available in
astronomy, butthere is stuff available in studying the earth's atmosphere
and many of the skills required are very similar. If one is of liberal
bent, you can feel like you are working to understand the ozone problem. If
one is of conservative politics, its remote sensing techniques for military
applications. My work has applications in both those areas.

What I would like to know is areas outside of my immediate field where I
could apply my skills. Specifically, how could I get into public policy
work? All I know of my little nook in the field and I was hoping that this
bulletin would give me andexpanded view of the world. Instead, it appears
to have degraded into a forum for frustrated academic wanna-be's.

David Siskind
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: rr2@cec2.wustl.edu (Rajamiyer Ravichandran)
Subject: Getting Faculty Position. What is the secret ?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:59:39 GMT

	I am currently in the second year of searching for a
faculty position in Structural Mechanics and Solid Mechanics
disciplines. I have a D.Sc with Six publications (Two of them
are refreed journal papers and two more are on the way).
I applied to 30 universities so far and in all of them I was
told that I come upto second or third short listing but not in the
final short list. I believe a little extra push may help to get
an interview. Is anybody out there with any suggestions ?

	I generally submit a resume, copies of two recent publications,
a list of publications, names of three references and a brief statement
of teaching and research objectives. Is there anything else I can do
to make a better impression ? All the universities I have applied received
on an average 400 applications. It takes real effort and accomplishments
to stand alone in such a crowd. All suggestions are welcome.

R.V. Ravichandran
Dept. of Civil Engineering
Washington University
St. Louis, MO 63130                   email: rr2@wucec1.wustl.edu
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Interview Experiences?
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:05:41 CST
Distribution: world, local
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Jul24.020955.29781@cco.caltech.edu>, jeffp@cco.caltech.edu (Jeffrey E. Prisbrey) writes:
> This sounds trivial, I know, but:

Absolutely not! 

> A curriculum vita is usually pretty long.  I have been told that this
> can be a problem, that people in the real world (tm) don't like
> resumes longer than a page.

Correct, a resume is a *summary* of your background.  Whereas a CV
is intended to be more detailed.  In research fields, you need both
if dealing with industry. 

> Some of the people here have experience hiring -- what are your veiws
> on resume length?

If a resume hits my desk with more than three pages (and there better
be a *REAL* good reason for more than two pages) it automatically goes
in the trash.  I *KNOW* that this sounds cold, but most people in 
industry want to hire someone to *SIMPLIFY* things.  I just don't have
time to read a long resume (and the long ones usually start with "I 
was born in..." and end with "and three lovely children: Muffy 3, 
Biff 2...  ;-).  A person looking for their first job in industry
should be able to get by with one page, two max...  And not crammed 
from top to bottom, side to side.  There *MUST* be plenty of white
space on the page to make it easy to scan and for the prospective
employer to add various marginal notes.  State at the bottom
of the resume or on the cover letter that a detailed CV and references
are available on request.  Also, always suggest a personal interview 
in the cover letter as a way of getting a more detailed idea of their
needs. 

Good luck... 

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc. 
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Getting Faculty Position. What is the secret ?
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:34:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

rr2@cec2.wustl.edu (Rajamiyer Ravichandran) writes:
: 	I am currently in the second year of searching for a
: faculty position in Structural Mechanics and Solid Mechanics
: disciplines. I have a D.Sc with Six publications (Two of them
: are refreed journal papers and two more are on the way).
: I applied to 30 universities so far and in all of them I was
: told that I come upto second or third short listing but not in the
: final short list. I believe a little extra push may help to get
: an interview. Is anybody out there with any suggestions ?

There are some (more than 1 or 2) graduating students in my department
(usually condensed matter experimentalists) who are graduating (after 6-10
years!) with 10--40 publications.  No, I don't know their significance.
It's just a sign of the times.

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
From: benjamin@picasso.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Dennis Benjamin)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: u53644
Keywords: none
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:14:51 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

So who is this this U53644 character, anyway, and more importantly, 
does he have a job? I can't imagine who would pay him to write
megabytes worth of venom on a daily basis, yet I find it hard to
believe that he does anything else besides read this group and send
postings to it, having seen so many _long_ posts from him over the
past weeks.

	Curious,

	Dennis Benjamin