HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rmann@ohmeda.com (Robby Mann)
Subject: Re: Corrections and treatment work
Keywords: AA alcoholism
Organization: Ohmeda Monitoring Systems
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:12:46 GMT

weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss) writes:


>Does anyone have any experience in taking meetings into correctional
>facilities (jails and prisons) or treatment facilities?

>I am on this district's Corrections and Treatment Committee.  I have
>told my story in jails and a treatment facility.  The committee also
>takes a general meeting into two prisons, and a Big Book study into
>another, as well as a few more odds and ends.

>I don't have any specific problem, nor do I have a general sense
>of malaise (sp?) regarding anything related to this work.

>I am interested in hearing other people's experience in taking
>meetings into prisons, or people's experience at hearing the message
>while in prison/jail.  Just to get some perspectives.

>(I am not interested in hearing how the treatment center you may have
>went through ran meetings.  I would like to hear how AA was brought
>into treatment centers.  Many treatment centers have their "own"
>groups, or the treatment center has their own version of AA,
>the steps, etc.  This committee doesn't do that sort of thing, but
>does bring meetings into facilities, so that's what I am interested
>in hearing about.  Not a flame, it just isn't useful to me at this
>moment.)

>Phil.

Phil,
     In my district we had our TF chair out and doing his job.  He found a
TF that wanted an A.A. meeting in their facility.  He brought this information
to the district meeting, and my home group picked up the ball from there.
     Most of the members in my home group got involved, and sponsered the 
meeting at the TF. i.e. home group members chairing the meetings.  
     We had an easy go of it for a while.  A couple of us talked to the TF
admins, and told them what we are, what we do, and what we do not.  
     About a week after talking to the admins, we started a beginners meeting,
basically staying in the beginning of the Big Book. (From the beginning of the
book to chapter five;focusing primarily on the first 3 steps.
     After this, other groups in the district started doing the same things
at other TF's. It works well at times, and others not so well depending on
the TF's.
     We have also have had our run ins with TF's wanting to do it there way.
     We let them, and the group sponsorship pulls out.
     My home group also did the same thing with the local jails.  We have
had no problems with the jail systems.
     Oops, almost forgot my home group also sponsors a meeting in a Detox.
Nothing like working with a wet one.
     I hope this helps.

rob

-Our Primary Purpose is to carry the message to the Alcoholic who still suffers.-
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-)
Subject: Re: Selfish program?
Organization: OFSA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:30:05 GMT


it depends on how you define selfishness, I suppose. The program is
selfish in the sense that the alcoholic is doing it for THEM, not
others. Sure, we help others in the program but doing that helps us
also, yes?

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: dianat@redsun.pps.rain.com (Diana Thompson)
Subject: Thanks - Better now
Organization: Portland Public Schools, Portland Or.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:46:27 GMT

Thanks, Group.

I was really overwhelmed by the response I got from my need for a hug.  I
also find that I am feeling a bit silly.  I think that I must have sounded
worse than I really was.  I had thought that I was over that guy, and was
really surprised by the intensity of the feelings that came up when I 
heard that he planned to marry.

I do know that I am better off not in that relationship.  I am continuing
to grow and learn in a way that was not possible when he and I were 
together.  As I said, the highs were magnificient, but the lows were
devastating.  There was a level of chaos in that relationship that I just
don't need in my life anymore.  So. . . .with all that good logic, I
really didn't expect the feelings to be so strong.  Why is it after all
these years I still think that I should be able to control my feelings!

Anyhow, I feel much better after sleeping on it and finding a whole mail
bag of e-hugs and words of wisdom.  It made me feel very un-alone.

Thank you all.

Namaste

	-Diana

-- 
***********************************************************************
Diana Thompson				     dianat@redsun.pps.rain.com
Portland Public Schools				(usual disclaimer here)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: starshine@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Date: 25 Jul 92 10:03 PDT
Subject: Re: 0 days again
Nf-ID: #R:Jul22.041337.25805@yuma.acns.col:-1590019085:cdp:1309900060:000:29
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!starshine    Jul 25 10:03:00 1992


Keep coming back!

Starshine
From: carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Addiction a disease? (not)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:45:31 GMT

>[re: alcoholism]
>Uh, define disease?  The AMA certainly thinks it is.  Has for many
>years.  There are certain criteria something has to meet before it is
>labeled a disease.  The AMA will tell you that alcoholism certainly
>meets the criteria.

I don't know what the AMA says, but I suggest that alcoholism is an
ADDICTION, and that an addiction is neither a disease nor a
consequence of moral inferiority or "weakness".  As I understand it,
an addiction is a dependency on a substance or activity for
experiencing good feelings (like confidence, control, joy, etc.) and
for avoiding painful feelings (like hopelessness, emptiness,
loneliness, etc.).

Some problems with considering an addiction as a disease:

* So far as I know, no biological cause has been discovered that
explains addictive behavior.  (Including a gene, contrary to popular
belief: see A.M. Bolos et al., "Population and pedigree studies reveal
a lack of association between the dopamine D_2 receptor gene and
alcoholism," _Journal of the AMA_ 264 (1990): 3156-60.)

* It is not true that all addicts always lose control when they come
into contact with the substance to which they are addicted.  (For
example, I understand that experiments have shown that many alcoholics
frequently control their drinking when it is in their interest to do
so.)

* Addiction is usually not a lifetime condition.  For example, I think
that there are more ex-smokers than smokers in the US, and 90+ percent
of them quit on their own, without medical treatment.

* Addiction is not inevitably progressive.  Most people with addictive
habits eventually moderate them or give them up.  There are many
people who used to drink excessively but now drink moderately, and
many people who were frequent users of illicit drugs but who are not
now chemically dependent.

* Treatment for addiction is frequently no more effective than letting
the person outgrow the addictive habit on their own.  Some treatments
are more effective than others, but the more effective ones are not
the ones that are popular in the United States such as AA (which is
not to deny that many people have found AA very valuable -- but many
others have found it to be unhelpful and occasionally harmful).  (See
W.R. Miller and R.K. Hester, "The effectiveness of alcoholism
treatment: what research reveals," in _Treating Addictive Behaviors_
(ed. by the same authors), New York: Plenum, 1986.)

All this is MHO, of course.  I apologize if this topic has alreadly
been argued to death here; I'm a relatively new reader of this group.
Greetings to all and take care,

Richard Carnes
From: weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Selfish program?
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:32:15 GMT
Reply-To: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
Organization: none
X-Posted-From: snake.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In Alt.recovery, ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-) writes:
|> 
|> it depends on how you define selfishness, I suppose. The program is
|> selfish in the sense that the alcoholic is doing it for THEM, not
|> others. Sure, we help others in the program but doing that helps us
|> also, yes?
|> 

That has to change if I am going to stay sober.  I don't get to stay sober
just because I want to stay sober.  I don't get to stay sober because
some other person or institution wants me to stay sober either.  I get
to stay sober if and only if that makes me useful to God and my
fellow human beings.

Phil.

You will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny.
May God bless you and keep you until then.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: What is the Big Book?
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:41:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Paul.Kram@cs.cmu.edu writes:

>Can someone give a full bibiliographic citation?

Title: Alcoholics Anonymous
Subtitle: How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from
Alcoholism
Author:  Alcoholics Anonymous
Third Edition, 
Library of Congrus Catalog Card No. 76-4029
ISBN 0-916856-00-3
First edition was 1939
Second, 1955, and Third is 1976.
Publisher: Alcoholics World Services, Inc., New York, 1976
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moiram@sacajawea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Moira Mallison)
Subject: Re: Male/Female? In AA? (Was: RECOVERY!@???)
Reply-To: moiram@csc.ti.com
Organization: Computer Science Lab, Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:21:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.212219.1966@ctr.columbia.edu>, weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss) writes:
>> 
>> Readers will assume that a poster's problem is their problem, unless
>> the poster says what their problem is.

I'm not sure if the "their" refers to the poster or the readers in
this sentence, but  I think it is supposed to refer to readers.  In
which case, you totally missed the point of my posting, which was that
a reader should NOT assume that a poster's problem is the same as the
reader's problem, particularly when responding.  I certainly don't
assume everyone whose posts I read is an incest survivor (although
there are probably more than anyone suspects).

Moira
From: sher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Sherri Crain)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: i do it for myself
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:14:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services

I'm just catching up on the past week's worth of articles,so I'm a little
behind,but I feel a need to respond to the tention that seems to be going
back and forth in regards to this subject line. Non-twelve steppers are
bashing 12 steppers,in particular A.A.,and 12 steppers are bashing non-
steppers.  I don't know which came first and I don't care,I just wish it
would stop.  "Live and Let Live"  as they say.  The name of this newsgroup
is alt. *recovery*  I think a lot of people assume that recovery = the steps.
I know that's what I hear at meetings all the time...that there's a difference
between sobriety (I'm an A.A) and recovery.  I definately think there's a
difference between sobriety (or whatever) and recovery,but for me recovery
doesn't necessarily mean the steps.  Yes, *I* choose to use the steps to
recovery (and for me,recovery simply means *change*,hopefully for the better!)
but I know of a lot of people who are recovering through other means.  If
it works for them,I don't worry about it. What works for me,works for me and
I accept that it doesn't apply to everyone.

I don't know,maybe this discussion should be about acceptance and not
who is working what program,if any.  It seems to me we could all stand
to apply some acceptance and tolerance of each other if this newsgroup
is going to continue to discuss recovery.  It's not alt.criticize,after
all.

















-- 

     Lack of planning on your part                 -sher   
doesn't justify an emergency on my part     sher@umbc3.umbc.edu
From: drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM (Live Long and Prosper)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RECOVERY!@???
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:18:00 GMT
Reply-To: drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.ebay.sun.com


>
>>|> one day at a time
>>|> go to meetings, and don't drink between meetings
>>|> live and let live
>>|> work the steps
>>|> expect a miracle
>>|> Keep coming back, it works . . . . .
>
>>Yeah, exactly how does one do these things?  
>

 My sponsor sent me a checklist which tells me if I'm working my program
"correctly".
-------------- SPONSEE'S DAILY CHECKLIST ------------------------------


1. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

2. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

3. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

4. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

5. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

6. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

7. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

8. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

9. ARE YOU GRATEFULL?

10. WHAT STEP ARE YOU ON?

----------------------------------

Cheers, -David
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: rmann@ohmeda.com (Robby Mann)
Subject: How selfish?
Summary: selfishness
Keywords: selfish
Organization: Ohmeda Monitoring Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:34:46 GMT

     When I got into A.A. the last time, which was April 15, 1985.  My 
sponser told me that I had 1 year to go to meetings for myself.  That is
go to meetings for me! 
     At that time, i needed that. (really)  I had no knowledge of how the
A.A. program worked, i had no idea what i was supposed to be doing.  I was
there to learn about things that i had no idea how they were going to change
my life.  I was there to look at people, watch people, and listen to what they
had to say.  When I wasn't at a meeting i was to pick up that Big Book, and
read it as if my life depended on it.  because it did.  Left up to my own
resourcefulness and willpower, i would most surley be dead today, cause i wasn'tfar from it 7 years ago.
     After a year of doing these things, and working the steps, my first 
sponser says,"Now you are here for the alcoholic who still suffers."  "You
have learned these things, and you practice those principals in all your 
affairs, and you have to share these things with another person."
     And you know he is right.  In 7 years i have had my ups, and my downs.
But the only thing that gets "me" out of "self", is working with another
alcoholic.  To give away what had been so freely given to me.
     When i do this, i get out of "self", and all my worldly problems that i 
make up in my own mind, are gone. I am truely doing what my Higer Powers' 
will for me to do.
     When i do not do this, i am in a world of hurt, i am resentful, i am
angry, i am worried about what is going to happen to me. (selfish)  Totally
opposite of serenity and peace of mind, and i understand the meaning of
insanity.
     Now, peace and serenity, sobriety, and all these wonderful things are
given to me by my Higer Power.  These are things that "I" want, but i cannot
have them if I keep them to myself, and to only way I know to continue 
receiving this gifts, is to keep giving away my experience, strength, and hope,
that i have received through the A.A. program and fellowship. (and service 
work).


Rob


-Then I thought, maybe a little whiskey in my milk would go good with this
sandwich.-

 
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: fullerto@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy dwight fullerton)
Subject: re: NORMIES
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:45:27 GMT


	Dear Rob,

	Just to give you a little hope, my life is completely 
indistinguishable from that of a normal person, except that
I can not take any recreational drugs safely, I go to AA meetings
occasionally, and I suscribed to this group.

	I have achieved great happiness, depth, and fulfillment, my social 
network out of the program is bigger than that which is in it, and my life 
is manageable. This came initially from the twelve steps, but there is 
more, and the twelve steps are by no means the only way.

	If you think you are working on just one obsession, more will
be revealed to you. Work on the ones you need to. I found that working on 
all of my problems at once contributed to the unmanageability of my life.
Some just do not matter. Some that I initially percieved as defects of 
character were required to thrive in academic and work environments.
Those that matter will make themselves known to you when they do 
matter.

					Best Wishes.

						Tim F.
						fullerto@cis.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: weiss872@snake.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss)
Subject: Splitting alt.recovery
Organization: none
Followup-To: alt.recovery
Reply-To: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:39:25 GMT
X-Posted-From: snake.cs.uidaho.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


If anyone is going to split alt.recovery, please consider
splitting on the basis of problem, rather than on the basis
of group.

Why?

1) Some people will refuse to go to alt.recovery.aa because they don't
believe in AA's twelve steps.  Some people will refuse to
share their experience in alt.recovery.rr because they can't do
it on their own.  I need to hear people's opinions on methods
other than my own, if for no other reason than to find out how
not to do it.  Many times, I find the observations of an RR person
helpful.

2) Somebody not a regular to alt.recovery.aa or alt.recovery.rr
may not know what AA and RR stand for.  (Joni posted about this.)
Consequently, whatever message you carry may not get to a person
who could benefit from it.

I suggest, if any split is to be made:

alt.recovery.alcohol
alt.recovery.food
alt.recovery.narcotics
alt.recovery.adult-child
alt.recovery.family-probs

etc. etc.

(I'm not sure I think alt.recovery ought to be split yet)

Phil.
From: wrhogeb@srv.PacBell.COM (Bill Hogeboom)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Splitting alt.recovery
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:30:24 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell

In article <1992Jul30.162159.2771@nntp.uoregon.edu> gpotts@hebb.uoregon.edu writes:
>
>	I'm new to this group so I don't know anyting about its charter (if
>there is one) or its "group concience" but I like to hear all points of view
>-- I never know from where some piece of wisdom will come.
>
>	Many people find recovery outside of the 12 steps or find valuable tools
>in addition to the 12 steps. I want to hear what they have to say.Ignorance
>is dangerous; information only challenges ridgidity.
>
>	I once heard that all you need to start a meeting is a Big Book and a
>resentment. If someone wants to start and alt.12-steps or alt.aa where
>things other than alcohol are NEVER mentioned (forgetting Doctor, Alcoholic,
>Addict and the fact that Dr. Bob was a major dopehead, ableit prescription
>drugs) then I have no beef with that -- I may even participate. But I hope
>we can keep a forum where ALL points of view are heard.
>
>	I certainly understand the importance of keeping an AA meeting and AA
>meeting and an NA meeting an NA meeting and how the traditions help us do
>that (I've served on and even chaired an NA regional literature committee)
>but this newsgroup does not seem to me to be a "meeting" of any particular
>fellowship and thus is more flexible. At my place in recovery today, I like
>flexibility.
>
>	So, I hope people keep posting what works for them. I'll take what I can
>use and leave the rest.
>
>--geoff
>


I agree, I have meetings where I can participate in a program that
deals with only the addictions that first brought me to a twelve
step program. I like hearing the different opinions and approches
available on this group. It might be nice to start some other
program specific groups, but, I hope we keep this one the way it is
so we can all come together and share what we have learned.

Bill H.
From: starshine@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: What have I gained
Date: 20 Jul 92 13:43:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Jul18.000043.2185@samba.oit.:1089705046:cdp:1309900058:000:498
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!starshine    Jul 20 06:43:00 1992


When I drank I had a car, a good job, a boyfriend, etc.

After I stopped drinking and was sober and drug free in AA, I lost my
very good job, and lost a lot of other stuff.  Oh yes, I owned a house
while I drank, but no longer did after I quit drinking.

My sobriety (not drinking and being drug-free) is unconditional.  It is
not dependent upon worldly success.  I don't drink even if my ass falls
off.

And what I got is a *MAGIC CARPET RIDE* when I let go of my old ideas
absolutely.

Starshine
From: grubb@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Gary A. Grubb)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Shared housing  San Jose
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:24:33 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

I would like to share my home with a clean and sober man or woman.

Two bedroom house in a nice neighborhood near Willow Glen. The location is 
central to most areas. There is a large yard and some storage. 

The house is very nice and comfortable. There is a 
large kitchen and bathroom. 

Furnished or unfurnished. (same price)

The rent is $350.00 monthly with a $175.00 deposit.

One younger child OK. Add $25.00.

My name is Gary Grubb. Call me at 408 297-8152 or email me at:

gary@hpoemta.sj.hp.com
From: sher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Sherri Crain)
Subject: Re: RECOVERY!@???
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:24:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.162650.4212@ctr.columbia.edu> weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu writes:
>In Alt.recovery mikec@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Mike Coleman) writes:
>|> chris.mathis@madness.network23.com (Chris Mathis)  writes:
>|> 
>|> > Recovery?! So where is all the helpfull advice???!!!!!
>|> 

     (list of suggestions deleted for sake of space)
>
>Yeah, exactly how does one do these things?  I was told all these things
>when I first showed up at an AA meeting.  With the exception of
>"Go to meetings" I had no clue what any of it meant, much less how
>do do any of it.
>
>So how do I go about doing these things?

All I can offer you is what got me through early sobriey,and I'm not
talking "recover" because I wasn't able to look at the steps other than
maybe the first step for several months.  For me,I had to learn to just not
pick up that first drink,one day at a time,until I had some time under
my belt before I could start working a recovery program.  How I did it
was going to as many meetings as I could,I knew I was safe for that one hour
and didn't have to worry about drinking in the rooms,that left me with only
23 hours (or fewer if I went to more than one meeting a day!) to deal with
without picking up a drink.  I slept a lot,although it was never a sound
sleep,lots of restlessness the first few months...st any rate if I slept
8 hours,that left me with only 15 hours to have to deal with not drinking.
That was still a lot of time.

I literally sat on my hands at times,until I could get myself to a meeting
or force myself to pick up the phone and call someone in the program.
Getting a sponsor helped a lot because it was easier to call her since
that was part of "the deal" than to call someone else.  I postponed my
drinking a lot..."If I still want to drink in 5 minutes,then I'll drink."
When 5 minutes went by and I still wanted to drink,I put it off another
five minutes.

When all else fails,the thing that really worked for me was just doing
what was in front of me,and talking to myself..."I am brushing my teeth,"
"I am getting out of  bed..."  "I am getting in the car,starting the car,
..."  You get the idea.

I hope some of this helps.  I know where you're at because I just stopped
smoking and I want to smoke most of the time but I'm using the same
tools I used to get sober with.  It works!

Good Luck!  Keep us posted on how you're doing!

-- 

     Lack of planning on your part                 -sher   
doesn't justify an emergency on my part     sher@umbc3.umbc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery