HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Life after CDs
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:29:23 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, UK.

In article <27JUL199209444686@erin.caltech.edu>, shoppa@erin.caltech.edu (TIM SHOPPA) writes:

> 	Also, I believe the same article pointed out that music *could* be
> recorded on both sides!  Has anyone actually seen this done?  It would mean
> that program information (and the trendy art designs) we are used to would
> be non-existent or in the very center circle of the CD.

A problem may be that the Al surface inside a CD has to be a fairly
precise distance from the laser (I think I read something about the
laser being focussed so any grunge on the surface of the CD would be
out of focus), and the layer is much closer to the "top" of the CD
than the "bottom", so a 2-sided CD would have to be almost twice as
thick as a 1-sided one, which would be a problem.

This is just a theory of mine, of course....

--
Scott Telford, Dept of Computer Science,      electric mail: s.telford@ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK.
------- Rollin' over like a big, big cloud/Walkin' out in the Big Sky! --------
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Gig or Jig or Gij or Jij?
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:26:23 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

dp35@mc1adm.UWaterloo.ca (Greg Moore) writes:
>Just as a matter of interest, after posting my comment about someone
>pronouncing gigabyte as "jigabyte", I'm wondering how most people
>pronounce gigabyte.

Well, "Giga" is a metric type prefix like "milli," "mega," "deka" etc.
Ah, SI (Standard International) Units is what I'm thinking of.
Looking it up in my Van Nostrand's, it claims that it's a leading "j".
However, I've never heard anyone actually say "jigabytes".
-- 
What is orange and goes "click, click"?  A ball point carrot.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: gudjm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (D John McKenna)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:27:57 GMT

hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker) writes:

> Anyone else logged onto a machine to issue a `show time' command when
> one is wearing a perfectly good watch?

Just out of curiosity... out of all of you hackers who wear a digital
watch, how many have it in 24 hour mode?

John West
-- 
gudjm@uniwa.uwa.edu.au  For the humour impaired: insert a :-) every 3 words
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: The Turn of The Century<tm>
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:35:59 GMT

In article <phil.711763592@adam.adelaide.edu.au> phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) writes:
}gdolgner@chelsea.prime.com (Gene Dolgner) writes:
}
}I can't believe that I am actually defending COBOL, but still...
}
}>I wouldn't program in COBOL for 2 MILLION DOLLARS!
}
}I would.  I would code in most anything for $2M.  I'd probably even code in
}my underwear in winter for that sort of cash.

Amen.

}... The problem ...
}... is that:
}
}                          COBOL IS A TOY LANGUAGE
}
}Straight out.  You can code anything simple in it with no real difficulty,
}it is just very wordy.  However don't try anything complicated!

You mean like point-polygon-inclusion? (Yes, I once had to implement that
in COBOL.  It was a challenge ...)

}That I assume is why it is worth so much, lot's of clever hacks to get
}functionality out of a toy language.

Learning COBOL is a little like learning to type used to be:  You won't
make much money with it, but you'll always have a job, albeit not a very
interesting one.

COBOL is very good at doing what it was designed to do:  Straight, IPO
record handling.  It's fair to middlin' at generating reports.  It's
bloody useless for doing anything most hackers or scientific programmers
would be interested in doing (I maintain that "hacking COBOL" is an
oxymoron).

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: aki@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 22:09:26 PDT
Reply-To: aki@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

In article <1992Jul24.181837.23858@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
> Sure they do.  What else would we all use our HP-16C's for?  (And poor Casio
> and TI imitations, for that matter!)


... or our brain which seems to do hex-math much faster than
decimal. (is _THAT_ the definition of the ultimate computer geek?)

Aki.
-- 
/  Phone: 408-662 9664   Fax: 662 9676  |  "Aki" pronounced: Ah-Key. I know  \ 
\  125 Searidge Ct #D, Aptos, CA 95003  |  what I'm doing most of the time.  /
From: magnus@THEP.LU.SE (Magnus Olsson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Non Unix-OS's
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:20:50 GMT

Not too many years ago, there was a plethora of different operating systems;
almost every manufacturer had at least one proprietary OS which ran only on
their machines and nothing elase, and was incompatible with everything else.
DEC even had several different OS's for each model of computer.

Today, the scene is completely different. Apart from VMS VAXen and IBM
mainframes, every computer bigger than a PC seems to be running Unix
nowadays. 


So, I wonder, how many non-Unix OS's are still being used on *new*
multi-user hardware? Of course, there are a lot of old systems,
running old OS's. And there are lots of microcomputer OS's, but let's
exclude most of them by defining "OS", I mean multi-tasking, multi-user
OS. 

The term "non-Unix OS" is of course ambiguous, but I mean systems that
are *radically* different from both BSD and System V. I'd like to bundle
Unix-lookalikes such as Linux and OSF/1 with Unix, as well.

There are several borderline cases - Domain OS/Aegis is rather
different from Unix, but makes a pretty good job at pretending it's
Unix anyway. And what should we say about Mach, which is not Unix but
is based on it and _to the user_ very similar to 4.3 BSD?


Magnus Olsson                   | \e+      /_
Dept. of Theoretical Physics    |  \  Z   / q
University of Lund, Sweden      |   >----<           
Internet: magnus@thep.lu.se     |  /      \===== g
Bitnet: THEPMO@SELDC52          | /e-      \q
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell)
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:02:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.093247.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab) writes:
>And why must all unix commands be so cryptic, I thought we got away from
>terse languages decades ago.  Unix sure trashed the term *user friendly*.

I can't remember the exact source, but there was a study a while ago
which looked at whether or not some commands are more intuitive than
others (ie dir vs. ls), and they discovered that it doesn't really
matter.

Personally, I agree.  The concepts involved with computers are much more
difficult for the novice to handle than the spelling of a certain
command.

Dylan.
-- 
It is no coincidence that in no known language does the phrase 'As
pretty as an Airport' appear -- Douglas Adams
From: soley@trooa.enet.dec.com (Norman Soley)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Mitel Name
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:45:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Jul22.181558.14155@geovision.gvc.com>, pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes...
>I just heard from a friend that the name for Mitel came from
>"Mike and Terry's Lawnmowers".  Evidently, the two founders supported
>themselves by selling lawnmowers while they were working on product #1 in
>the garage.
> 
>Anybody know if this is true, and/or if any other companys got their names
>in such a roundabout way?
> 
>I'm personally suspicious, because Mitel sounds like so many other
>electronics/telecommunications companies - Intel, Novatel, and the like.

I've heard that one repeated frequently. Why not try calling Mike 
Cowpland's office? He's the "Mike" in question, I believe he's head honcho 
at Corel Systems now.
--
    Norman Soley, Specialist, Professional Software Services, ITC District
    Digital Equipment of Canada                   soley@trooa.enet.dec.com
    Opinions expressed are mine alone  and do not reflect those of Digital 
    Equipment Corporation or my cat Marge.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: ian@unipalm.co.uk (Ian Phillipps)
Subject: Worst tape drives. Was Re: 9 track data storage
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:43:05 GMT

peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>You don't want to know what a TK50 is. Probably the worst cartridge design
>for tape transport ever.

I agree, but worst ever - there's hot competition! I remember the
old-style DEC tapes. 3" diameter open-reel jobs; no capstan motors. The
drive just span the reel motors. I had to use a Fortran compiler which
used them as backing store. Coffee while compiling? No - lunch!

OK, they weren't "cartridge" drives, but they were close. ish.

Ian
-- 
Ian Phillipps, Unipalm Ltd, 216 Science Park,		Phone +44 223 420002
Milton Road, Cambridge, CB4 4WA, England.		Phax  +44 223 426868
	The road to hell is paved with melting snowballs - Larry Wall
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: norm@modcomp.uucp (Norm Brake)
Subject: Re: Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
Organization: MODCOMP, an AEG company
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:47:26 GMT

jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.192741.16732@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
>aduell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Duell) writes:
>>[...]
>>Talking of old storage, how many still use 8" floppies (I have them on my
>>PDP11/45 (DEC RX02), CASU super C CP/M machine, FTS-88 CPM/86 machine, and

I have a pair of RX02's on my DECMATE Word Processing System.  Media
is getting hard to find, but I think I have enough to see all of my
kids through their term papers for the rest of their school careers.

As long as it is doing the job, I can't see replacing it.

Norm Brake
norm@modcomp.com

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:02:52 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, Mountain View CA

In article <nmgihm8@zuni.esd.sgi.com> olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson) writes:
>In <6761@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes:
>
>| In article <1992Jul23.214235.15617@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>|  > Hell, I know someone who bought a new 9 track not too long ago, they
>|  > [...]
>| Why not?  On 9 track tape it is at least possible for the user to do
>| [...]
>
>DAT will do it; a lot easier to transport also!

Yeah, but what about the eleventy-seven bazillion 9-track TAPES which
presently exist in the world?  :-)

I'm actually thinking of getting a new Qualstor with SCSI interface to
be able to read my existing archives of 1000s of 800, 1600 and 6250 BPI tapes
from our PDP-10, DEC-20, VAXen and customer machines.

Though we're still running two DEC-20 and four VAXen, we're probably going
to retire them this (or next) year, and a 9-track drive will still be
needed for compatibility.  I'll bet those TU-78 drives won't connect to
an SGI Crimson!  :-)

And, most importantly, I still have Zork, Dungeon, HAUNT, Fisk, and LUGI
archived on 9-track; wouldn't want to lose THOSE programs!  :-)

Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: jelson@poincare.cs.jhu.edu (Jeremy Elson)
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:55:00 GMT


BTW- As far as I can remember (which isn't very far anyway ;-)), IBM
has always called PC hard drives "fixed disks" but I noticed during
OS/2v2.0 installation the message: "OS/2 is copying files to your
hard drive."

Anyone know what prompted the switch?

-je
-- 
Jeremy Elson
jelson@server.cs.jhu.edu (Internet) / jelson@jhuvms (Bitnet)
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: dinosaur horsepower
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:02:00 GMT
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA

In article <1992Jul29.164858.14557@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

. . . re: paper tape . . .

>btw, it's called RUBOUT because it's the code for all ones punched.  If you
>made a mistake on a paper-tape on an ASR-33, you could backspace the tape
>and then press RUBOUT which then changed the mistake to all holes punched
>regardless of prior code.  Since RUBOUT codes are ignored, you then use the
>correct code in the next frame.  The tape gets slightly longer, but doesn't
>have to be started from scratch.
>
>I think this convention was started with 5-level baudot tape.

Yes, but on 5 level tape, the all holes punched was the "LETTERS" 
aka LTRS shift. There was no specific "ignore me" code, so if you were 
in FIGS mode (numbers and punctuation), you had to remember to shift 
back to FIGS.

-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: skeeter@skatter.usask.ca
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: both can't
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:55:07 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan

From article <1992Jul28.151623.12798@news.eng.convex.com>, by Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>:
> From the keyboard of Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de>:
> :In <AeRB8p600WB60JlPZc@andrew.cmu.edu> es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) writes:
> :
> :The following is a bourne shell script that does it, followed by a Korn
> :shell script (caveat: both can't handle backslashes!):
> 		       ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> In my techojargon brand of English, "both can't" is not the same
> as "neither can".  This is "both can't":
> 
>     if (!a || !b)
> 
> Meaning it's true if EITHER A OR B OR BOTH CANNOT.
> 
> whereas this is "neither can":
> 
>     if (!(a && b))
> 
> Meaning is true only if neither A nor B can do something.
> 
> I realize that the poster is not a native speaker of English.
> Perhaps these are equivalent in German.  Perhaps I'm no longer
> a native speaker of English. :-)
> 
> 'Nuff said.
> 
> Please direct followups appropriately:
> 
>     TOPIC                       NEWSGROUP
> 
>     "both can't"                alt.usage.english      
> 				    (and maybe alt.folklore.computers)
> 
> --tom
> -- 

I disagree with "both can't" being expressed as "if (!a || !b)".  
I would say it is more like "both a and b are !" which is 
"if (!a && !b)".  Also "neither can" should not be 
"if (!(a && b))" but "if (!(a || b)" as in "not either a or b".

This, of course, makes the statements logically equivalent since
"if (!a && !b)" and "if (!(a || b)" are equivalent.

skeeter@skatter.usask.ca				no nifty .sig
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert)
Subject: Computers killing people?  (WAS Re: 9 track data storage???)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:34:20 GMT
Organization: ISCA

In article <1992Jul24.163622.8180@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky) writes:
>The old 729 and 2400 style IBM 9-track drives were a bit scary to watch
>in high-speed rewind: There was this ~~one-horsepower motor making this 
>several kilogram (sorry for mixing units...) reel of tape spin at VERY
>High Speed. 
>
>One day, I was in the machine room when I heard a crash at the same
>time a reel of tape went tearing past my head at warp speed.
>
>The hub grabber had broken during high-speed rewind, and the tape
>reel had somehow smashed through the glass door of the tape drive
>and headed across the room at a very healthy clip. Luckily,
>nobody was in its trajectory, as it did considerable damage to the
>wall it eventually hit...

After reading this an idle thought crossed my mind, wondering that if the
author had been hit in the head by the tape reel, would he have been remembered
as the first person ever to be killed by a computer?  Then I got to wondering
if ANYONE had ever been killed by computer.  I suppose it depends on how you
define it, surely people have been electrocuted while working on a computer in
the past.  But tossing out the electrocution possibility and the certainty that
many people have been killed by computer/programmer error before (i.e., the
type of thing we read about in comp.risks) I wonder if anyone has ever been
killed by a computer?
 
Kind of a gruesome topic, I suppose (sorry, Mr. Bernecky :-) ) but it is late
and it has got me to wondering...

-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Doug Siebert                             | "I don't have to take this abuse |
| Internet:  dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu      |  from you - I've got hundreds of |
| NeXTMail:  dsiebert@chop.isca.uiowa.edu  |  people waiting in line to abuse |
|     ICBM:  41d 39m 55s N, 91d 30m 43s W  |  me!"  Bill Murray, Ghostbusters |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Hi, I'm a .signature worm.  I've already copied myself into your .signature.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: PDP's (was  thread of Re: Terminal intrinsics)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:04:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.173524.4368@ulowell.ulowell.edu> wex@cs.ulowell.edu writes:

>|> The -20 is sometimes a -10 depending on the color.
>
>As I indicated, those were the PDP machines I have programmed
>
>The -20 was, in fact -10 hardware with a real pager box, but DEC
>Never sold anything called a PDP-20, while they did sell a PDP-10 (or two)
>
>{Let's see, let's take a PDP-10, add a pseudocopy of the BBN pager,
>run BBN's TENEX on it and call it a -20.}  {Oh yes, we gotta take
>the DECtapes off too.  -- anyone else remember DECtape swapping,
>SYS: on DECtape, monitor distribution on DECtape, Level C?}

I saw a -20 in the mill with a TD10 hooked to it from another nearby cabinet.
I believe there is DECtape support available for TOPS-20 as a result.  (Not
an official DEC version.)

cjl
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Gyroscopes (was Re: Mad drums)
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:39:24 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1992Jul27.183200.17442@tandem.com>, tvv@tandem.com (Tom Van Vleck) writes:

	> 
	> (I suspect that anytime there's a big piece of rotating machinery,
	> people wonder about its gyroscope nature.. wonder if that guy on the
	> bike has trouble cornering when his hard disk is spinning?)
	> 
Reminds me of a story told by Prof Eric Laithwaite on one of the Royal
Institution's Christmas Lectures some years ago. He was a gyroscope
enthusiast, and told of a time he'd got a large rigid suitcase and put a
hefty flywheel in it. He then arrived at a posh hotel, got the flywheel up to
speed (with a portable drill or something) & walked straight up the steps
into the hotel. A porter immediately came over to carry his bag, which all
went well until he tried to turn a corner...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Data General
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:39:44 GMT

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I remember visiting an office where 
they had a Data General machine that was used for accounting purposes.
It was single rack that was about 6' or so high, and one thing I remember
about it was its disk drive.

The drive was a drawer that pulled out of the machine.  You would remove
the "disk pack" by turning a handle and pulling it straight up.  You'd
put in another by dropping it in and turning the handle until it locked
into position.  You'd then close the drawer.

As I recall, the only time they changed it was when they did backup every
afternoon.  My guess is that the packs were about 30" in diameter and maybe
3 or 3 inches thick.  They were usually white or blue plastic, with access
to the side for the heads.

My question:  Can anyone tell me how much storage these things probably had?


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: maynard@esther.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley)
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 07:23:08 GMT

In article <jimf.712425000@centerline.com>, jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
writes:
>dpbsmith@world.std.com (Daniel P. B. Smith) writes:
>>Notice, too, the deliberately perverse nomenclature mutations in the
>>SAA CUA manual.
>
>To hell with the nomenclature, I've tried to actually use some
>SAA-compliant programs.  I don't know which wizard designed their
>scrollbars but I hope he's now in the salt mines.
>
Aha- is THIS why the scrollbars on aixterms on RS6000s are such a pain.?
Lord, if this is what SAA is like, no wonder it has such unanimously
negative reviews.

Maynard Handley
From: kawy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: re: People in computer history ...
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:12:35 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Cornell University

Somehow, this has degenerated into a vindication of Dan Quayle's spelling.

The previous poster's defense MIGHT be slightly more convincing if he hadn't 
made two (NOT "to") Spelling Errors!

And it might be more "substantial" if he hadn't spelled it "substatial".

Just my too scents.  :-)