From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: wife beating
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:54:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.ofI0tkK00UhW80xShx
	<1993Jan7.162521.17547@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Friends,

.

        This is a post of Dwight Joe's that I saw in the s.c.j.:

>From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
>Subject: Cultural Relativism (Re: My Thought on Wife Beating and more)
>Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 06:35:32 GMT
> 
>I copied the following post from another newsgroup.  It's topic has little
>relevance to Japan per se, but it does highlight an extended discussion
>that has been occurring in this newsgroup.
> 
>Those who agree with Mr. Lee, who claims that wife beating is not necessarily
>as bad in Korea as in the USA, believe in cultural relativism.  Mr. Lee
>argues that wife beating is a defendable practice, depending on the culture
>(this being Korean culture).
> 
>The following people have argued in favor of cultural relativism:
>     blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
>     yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
>So, these people believe that Mr. Lee is correct.  In other words, they
>believe that wife beating is defendable, depending on the culture.
> 
>Those following people have argued against cultural relativism:
>     wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers)
>     dcroz@twics.co.jp
>     kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
>So, these people believe that Mr. Lee is wrong.  In other words, they
>believe that wife beating is wrong, the wrongness being derived from 
>a belief that certain concepts are _human_ rights and hence are universal.
> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>                          transcribed posting
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
>In article <1int5tINN6cn@shelley.u.washington.edu>
kaygee@hardy.u.washington.ed
>u (Kevin Giansante) writes:
>>In article 11665, timothy lee <tlee@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
>>digs himself in deeper:
>>
>>(stuff deleted)
>>
>>>  As I said before in my previous article, wife beating 
>>>in Korean social milieu has a different character than that in
>>>American society.
>>
>>But does it hurt?
>>
>>(more stuff deleted)
>>
>>>I added that you Westerns should not judge wife beating in Korea
>>>superficially
>>>since Korean people tend to look at inner motive than outer
>>>acts.
>>
>>I think there are plenty of Koreans who would disagree with that. 
>>
>>(more deleted)
>>
>>> in reality, through the unfaithfulness of their marital
>>>life American males commit more grievous crime than wife
>>beating.
>>
>>I'm not arguing for or against marital deception, nor am I
>>interested in comparing the sins of American and Korean males. 
>>Those are separate issues that do not interest me at the moment. 
>>I'd like to focus on violence committed by men against women, and
>>I say that it is NEVER acceptable, regardless of cultural
>>context.  You are free to hold your own opinion, but I don't
>>think you can speak for Koreans in general.
>>
>>(more deleted)
>>
>>>Extremely speaking, in my opinion, if domestic violence resolves
>>>marital problems, it's well better than divorces.
>>
>>Is that also true when a woman commits violence against a man, or
>>only when the man wins?
>>
>>
>>(more deleted)
>>
>>>I admire Western thoughts and its ideas such as
>>>individualism and freedom and justice.
>>
>>Individualism and freedom and justice for women?
>>
>>(more deleted)
>>
>>>one has to understand the value of discipline.  Even Western
>>>society disciplined
>>>their school children harshly (See Charles Dickens' novels).  
>>
>>The conditions portrayed in Dickens are not generally accepted as
>>desirable by rational, humane people.
>>
>>(more deleted)
>>
>>>You cannot simply 
>>>say, "Oh, what terrible Korean schools are!  Teachers beat their
>>>students! "Some even showed an example of a girl who became
>>>temporarily paralyzed when she
>>>was beaten by her teacher.  But to me, teachers should
>>>discipline their
>>>children, even using physical force.
>>
>>Well, yes, I have to admit that a paralyzed student is not going
>>to get into any trouble.
>>
>>>But in some ways, Koreans treat women with
>>>more respect than Americans treat women.  For example, Koreans
>>>never let their wives work.  Then you might immediately talk
>>>about career and conclude that what pitiful Korean women are.
>>
>>Well, I rather think that men who treat their wives that way are
>>the pitiful ones.  I think they are cowards.
>>
>>(yet more deleted)
>>
>>>In my opinion, Korean women are the happiest women in the world 
>>>because their husbands support them.
>>
>>You know, Tim, I'm just going to butt out of this discussion
>>after this post.  But I'd like to hear what Korean women have to
>>say about this.
>>
>>(and more)
>>
>>>Most women work tedious and menial jobs with meager wage as
>>>their careers.
>>
>>So do most men.
>>
>>>Do you see the cartoon which sarcastically 
>>>pointed out the false assumption of the seemingly glamorous
>>>single mother career women
>>>Murphy Brown lifestyle?
>>
>>Murphy Brown isn't real, Tim.  Dan Quayle had a problem with
>>that, too.  Maybe it's a Hoosier phenomenon?
>>
>>
>>
>>SPECIAL NOTE TO HANK:  SEE?  I TOLD YOU!!
>>
> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------+-----------
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>Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
>                                                                  |   /| / \
>Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
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       Please, let it be known that in my opinion there was no reason to
post this Social Culture Nippon. Let it also be known that there are
very few Japanese citizens in this group(however, all Nippon may be
listening)(As well as the world as some may say but I doubt this). I am
working very hard to create within myself  personal characterics that
are based on the unity of Asians in mutual respect. I see the potential
of this post and possible follow ups as destorying what I have tried to
build within myself. And, share with those around me. Please
friends(Koreans) try to ignore some of the commends that may be said in
respect to this. I swear if this it does comeout that something happens
and my Korean friends ignores it. I promise that I will study the Korean
language and try to enter Yonsei University because of the great control
that my freinds at Social Culture Hunguk showed. 

Dwight Joe I hate you. The hate that I have for you is more than any
Japanese could have for a person. I never thought that it was possible
for me to hate someone with Chinese blood. Even though I hate you that
hatred is nothing compared to the sorrow that I feel for you. The only
thing that is keeping you alive is that you are very intelligent(but you
use it in a stoopid way). But, let me tell you something friend.
Intelligence fails an individual at least once in life!  Be ready!