From: jamys@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Godley)
Subject: Training for rapier combat was Re: Sex, swords .... 
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:22:21 GMT


Unto all good gentles interested in "period fencing" does Jamys de Godeleia
(David Godley) send warm and cordial greeting

In <ewright.712437000@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>Diamon Isamu (Tim Chase) writes:

>>I was a big suporter of fencing in the SCA until people in my Kingdom
>>left the art in the background. What I mean is the fencing community
>>started to refer to the SCA fencers as the Zebra team. 

When this begins to happen the SCA needs to foster a fencer who is
willing to help those members of the SCA who are truley interested in the
arts of rapier combat.   Ideally this would be someone who is either a
member of the Society or someone who shares a common interest with the
Society and at the same time is willing to help TRAIN the fencers of the
SCA out of the bad habits that ALSO occur in the vast majority of novice
fencers.

>> That they were saying
>>was that if you fenced these people would get big red marks from being
>>slapped with the broad of the blade. I found it very difficult to fence
>>the people here because they had no real formal training and my blade
				   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You have hit the nail squarely on the head.  I'm sure that our "heavy"
bothers would cringe at the thought of someone with no training or
guidance to step beyond the Eric, but yet it seems quite acceptable in the
eyes of a portion of the Society for this to be the case when one is
carrying a rapier rather than a large lump of rattan.  I mean no offense
to the heavies who may read this missive but I firmly believe that there
should be a minimum level of understanding no matter what form of combat
is to take place and that the would be combatant should be able to
demonstrate this, as is the case with authorization proceedures. 
 
To which  Nicholas van Leyden replies

>Occassional slaps are a problem, especially with new fighters, 
>but the problem can be solved by proper training in point control.
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is by no means something that is restricted to the rapier fencing of
the SCA.  As a competitive fencer I frequently come off the piste quite
bruised and battered by a well meaning but novice fencer.  It is not just
the concept of point control but more of distance judgement.  It takes a
while to develop a accurate sense of distance... How far and deep to lunge
given your opponents distance.

> If a fighter charges into your blade, he's dead if someone is doing this
>deliberately, either he has a blow-calling problem or he's not taking the
>game seriously.  Either way, someone needs to talk to him.  Or am I
>missing something? 


No... quite likely the gentle in question doesn't know better.  It is much
harder to define a "good hit" with a rapier.  In the "glorious days"
before electrical apparatus for an epee it was a mere 3" bend in the
blade. Today it has been further reduced to 750 gms.  But what does this
really mean.  Many a time have I looked at a box only to find that I had
been hit. Here we have two extemes...  When they get together
misunderstanding is bound to evolve. One combatant a fencer used to the
light and precise touches to the hand and wrist of Epee and the other
essentially untrained and often with little feel for his (or her) weapon. 

What is really needed is more communication between the fencing and the
SCA communities.  SCA fencing is still in an embryonic stage in my distant
Principality of Lochac.  I have been trying for a while to get the SCA
fencers to undergo at least some basic (competitive) fencing training. 
Not much mind you (maybe something in the order of 10 hrs.) but enough to
know how to correctly hold a weapon, basic parries and attacks and above
all to develop a sense of distance.  This would enable the SCA fencer to
develop a basic "feel" for the weapon which would deveop through time with
experience.  With this basic level of training one could then proceed
towards cloak and dagger, florentine or what ever suited their fancy.

I would love to hear of the training requirements (if any) that have been
implimented in the rest of the Known World.

Jamys de Godeleia




-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
David Godley: c/- Dept. Geography, Monash University, Clayton 3168 AUSTRALIA
jamys@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au                  "...vitrum nostrum gloriosum..."

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