HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: Asthma, adult onset
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 19:09:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.171235.22641@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.034058.9067@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
>>
>>What proof?
>>
>>On the other hand, if you can reference any scientifically
>>sound studies of alternative therapies which you feel
>>are inappropriately rejected by traditional medicine,
>>please provide appropriate references to the "proof."
>>No anecdotal reports or testimonials, please.  

>Bernie Simon previously posted this list of studies:
>
>D.T. Reilly, M.A. Taylor, C.McSharry et al., "Is Homeopathy a
>Placebo Response? Controlled Trial of Homeopathic Potency with Pollen
>in Hayfever as Model," Lancet (1986):881-886.


ETC.

The original question referred specifically to treatment for asthma
and asked about scientific studies.  The list of studies cited in the
reply had to do with homeopathy in general (judging from the titles)
and not with asthma. So these citations are not on target.. 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:57:37 GMT

In article <ljhdtkINN57n@news.bbn.com> levin@bbn.com writes:
>In <1992Dec23.182340.23710@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>|One possibility is that the dilution process (which is more complex
>|than just a simple dilution) modifies the matrix such that the
>|immune system believes it is seeing the actual ingredient.  
>
>The matrix ???
>
>More babblespeak, more jargon?

Sorry, I'll try to be more careful about that.  The matrix is the
inactive ingredient that the medicine is in: sugar, alcohol, etc.
-- 
==============================================================================
A thought for the holidays:
   "Wine is living proof that God loves us and likes to see us happy"
	- Benjamin Franklin			dean@vexcel.com
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: Asthma, adult onset
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 19:52:16 GMT

In article <1hadehINNdu2@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock) writes:


>As far as controvertial asthma treatments go, check out the book:
>
>The Emperor Wears No Clothes   by  Jack Herer
>
>This book is all about the Hemp conspiracy.  According to this book (and
>sources are listed therein) the BEST treatment for asthma especially
>in children is smoking pot!  I have not personally tried it but the evidence
>they give is compelling and thanks to the DEA the doctors are not even
>allowed to research it to find out why!
>
>BTW, if you think this is far out (some of you M.D. types out there)
>go buy the book yourselves and go ahead and disprove it.  Jack offers
>a $10,000 reward for anyone who can disprove anything in the book.  It
>just might make a payment or two on your malpractice insurance, who knows!


The onus of proof must rest on those making an assertion, not on those
who question the assertion.  It would cost you many hundreds of
thousands of dollars to disprove that swallowing sugar and then
farting exactly five times cures aids.  So, it is a cheap shot to
offer someone $10 000 rewards for disproof of something.  I'm not an
MD, but I can hardly fault MDs for insisting on good evidence before
they risk someone's health!
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: terryk@encore.com (Terence M. Kelleher)
Subject: How far should Homeopathic medicine be followed?
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:19:09 GMT


I ask the question in the subject line to those who are believers in
homeopathic medicine.  I'm not against it, but I have reservations.  

A couple I know seem to be carrying it too far.  They see only a
chiropractor for all medical problems.  He does not prescribe any
non-natural medicines.  They have 2 children, one 2 years and the
other 4, who have never seen an MD, and have never been given vacines
or innoculations.

I don't think they ever visit an MD.  The women commented to me that
she had a sinus infection for close to 2 months, and the treatments
had not yet helped.  He had just given her another natural extract to
try.  

Are they going too far?  I find it hard to believe that there are many
followers of homeopathic medicine at this extreme.

--

                                 +----------------+
Terence Kelleher              +--+-------------+  |
Encore Computer Corp.         |  | E N C O R E |  |
terryk@encore.com             |  +-------------+--+
607-687-2644                  +----------------+
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: jblackwo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (J P Blackwood)
Subject: Vitamins
Organization: The Ohio State University
 <1992Dec26.051525.15360@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 05:17:20 GMT

I have found that many multi-vitamins available on the market either make me 
foggy/depressed or make my joints hurt or both.

Rainbow Light vitamins do not? Does anyone know what the culprit might be??

I am looking for good vitamins, Rainbow Lights are very expensive.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
J.P.
email: Blackwood.1@osu.edu

"The rule which forbids ending a sentence with a preposition is one up with 
which I will not put."
                                              -Winston Churchill
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Site for storage/retrieval of m.h.a FAQ's and selected articles
Summary: updated directory listing 
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:09:17 GMT


FTP SUNSITE.UNC.EDU
TELNET SUNSITE.UNC.EDU (login as swais, term. emul. vt100 works)
TELNET BBS.OIT.UNC.EDU (login and access m.h.a. archives with
                        swais, veronica, gopher)

/PUB/DOCS/SUSTAINABLE_AGRICULTURE/MISC.HEALTH.ALTERNATIVE:

drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 22 13:03 FAQS
-rw-r--r--  1 london        326 Dec 22 13:46 dir.index
-rw-r--r--  1 london      13678 Dec 22 13:44 mha.archive.site
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 22 13:03 newsgroup.articles
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 22 13:45 nutrition

FAQS:

newsgroup.articles:

nutrition:
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: strokes
Keywords: stroke brain
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:45:29 GMT
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California

In <skcummi.725565060@vincent1.iastate.edu> skcummi@iastate.edu (Sheri
K Cummings) writes:

>Several months ago I heard, I think on a Paul Harvey report, about
>something called epidermal growth factor, and how it is being administered
>to older stroke victims.  It had something to do with the creation of new
>brain cells.  Does anyone have any information on this process?

You might find more information in sci.med -- also, misc.handicap deals
with disabilities of all sorts, and can probably has information on treatments
and also general tips for partial paralysis and aphasia.

>He is currently unable to use his right arm and cannot communicate like
>before because of aphasia.

I remember hearing mention of a controversial therapy which I think was for
aphasia (probably more severe than your nephew's) -- basically it was using
a helper to watch for very subtle clues as to what the person with aphasia
was trying to communicate via a typewriter or computer keyboard, and assist
however was necessary -- moving limbs, fingers, whatever.

Skeptics said the helpers were really the ones generating the
communication, but proponents pointed to successes in helping aphasics
to communicate on their own.

Sorry, don't have any references.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:40:07 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1h8a3kINNk5q@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>I'm certain that both TCM and homeopathy can successfully treat it [AIDS],
>however I can not provide case studies.

Not surprising. Be sure to post some when you find them.



Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: dunbar@boulder.Colorado.EDU (S Dunbar)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:29:38 GMT

i was wondering what role oseopathic physicians fit into all of this, and 
exactly what D.O.s role is.
 
Scott\      /\/\  /|email: dunbar@boulder.colorado.edu
  /***\  /\/*/**\/*|Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology
 /  /\ \/**\/    \ |University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, CO  80309-0347
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: tscwhitehead@cc.weber.edu (Clarke Whitehead)
Subject: Re: Eczema and holistic cures
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Weber State University
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:31 MST  

Kevin,
Thanks for the information. I wondered if it was possible that the
inflammation of my eczema could be a temporary response to the change.
I'm going to look for Dr. Mendel's book.  You mentioned flushing out
the toxins.  Someone mentioned a lemon-juice fast for flushing toxins
out of your body.  Has anyone had experience with this?

Clarke
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: War cry of the scientific
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 02:52:23 GMT

In <schumach.725153887@convex.convex.com> schumach@convex.com (Richard
A. Schumacher) writes:

>Now we get to the crux of the matter. Alternative medicines are fads for 
>dilettantes, and last resorts for the desperate.

Look, this newsgroup was chartered for the purpose of discussing therapies
that are currently not accepted by scientific medicine.

Therefore, discussing whether or not therapies-that-aren't-accepted-by-
scientific-medicine are acceptable by scientific medicine is just pointless
here.  It belongs somewhere else -- sci.skeptic, for instance.

This newsgroup *is* for the exchange of practical information about
alternative therapies.  If you've got specific information that a therapy
is proven not to work, or is dangerous, *please*, tell us.  We'd love to
hear it.

Likewise, we love to hear what has worked for people.  Sometimes it will be
anecdotal; sometimes it will be double-blind research results.  It's up to
the reader to judge the merit of the information based on its context.

>Sorry to be so cranky about this, but we should not tolerate loose talk and
>careless thinking when peoples' health and lives are at stake. Some naif might
>mistake some of what passes here for actual wisdom.

I daresay naifs who read Usenet and take it as gospel are in for a heap of
trouble, and not just from misc.health.alternative.

I've tried to prevent the perception that anything here *is* gospel.
The group is named "misc.health.alternative", not "sci.med"; half the
introductory posting is disclaimers.  The FAQs will be loaded with
information about health care consumerism.

If you can think of anything else, *please* email me.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 06:17:55 GMT

In <BzxzEp.Mw8@ssr.com> sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne) writes:

>You understand it differently than some of us. I thought it was for a
>discussion of alternative medicine. This should include discussions of
>effectiveness and safety, neither of which can be demonstrated by
>anecdotes. Excahnges of personal experiences can be had in the soc.*
>and alt.sex.* groups.

As Harry Bochner notes, this newsgroup is for "general non-technical
discussion" of alternative health.  While you may find anecdotes worthless
because they offer no conclusive proof, others of us find information of
value in them, even though they are not conclusive in and of themselves.

Anecdotes are fine here.

>   Notice that this group is not in the sci (science) hierarchy.
>   I don't think a demand for rigorous scientific method is consistent with
>   the goals of the group.
>
>I do not think that such a demand is out of place. Kaminski (the
>originator of the group) assured everyone in the preliminary
>discussions that technical/scientific discussions would be *welcomed*.
>While expertise shouldn't be required, it is not out of place.

As I had put it in the charter, "...constructive criticisms and arguments
are encouraged, with the caveat that misc.health.alternative is to be a
generally non-technical consumer level discussion group."

A _demand_ for rigor *is* out of place here.  But the rest is correct --
scientific discussion is welcome, and expertise is not out of place.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Bates method (natural vision improvement)
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:29:40 GMT

In <BSIMON.92Dec28071326@elvis.stsci.edu> bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:

>Thanks for the posting. This is the kind of thing I would like to see
>more of on this group. Either actual experience of improvement with
>some alternative treatment or clinical results.

I agree, though I would add that I'd like to hear about *lack* of
improvement as well.

As for the Bates method, his book never quite jelled for me somehow,
although it was quite inspiring for me to read parts of it and realize
that eyesight *is* dynamic, not the static-or-worse thing I'd been
taught growing up.

The book that I did enjoy finding was "Natural Vision Improvement" by
Janet Goodrich, published by Greenhouse Publications in Australia
(ISBN 0 909104 90 5), and Celestial Arts in the US (ISBN 0-89087-471-9).

Lots of practical advice in making the transition back to clarity,
lots of different sorts of approaches, all presented clearly and with
a lot of joy.

I've been concentrating on other parts of my life, and I haven't really
been following the book much, but the last time I went in for glasses
I followed the advice in the book to get weaker ones, to correct only
to 20/40.  After a couple of weeks, my eyes got used to them, and I've
enjoyed having glasses that aren't so strong.

Without glasses I used to be able to see clearly only to about 10 cms
away from my eyes -- recently I've noticed that's increased to about 17
or 18, which made me quite happy.  (One of the side benefits is that I
can focus both eyes on something without my glasses now -- it used to be
that I had to hold things so close I'd only use one eye at a time.)  My
glasses now seem too strong at times, and I'm looking forward to going
in to get new ones.

Ms. Goodrich has an interesting chapter on myopia and personality, and
how myopes tend to have myopic personalities -- engages in near sector
activities, is easily hurt emotionally, and lives with unconcious
apprehension.  Myopia is a defense mechnanism -- a way of shutting off
a world that's getting too close.

I've been working on changing those sorts of traits in my life anyway,
and that's what I feel has really changed my vision.  I'm more
comfortable living (and seeing!) within a broader part world, instead of
of just 10 cms from my face. :)

Pete
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:48:26 GMT
	<1h7grbINNnoc@skat.usc.edu> <BSIMON.92Dec22130323@elvis.stsci.edu>
	<Bzy5EB.9D@ssr.com>
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.

If you will read the "Clinical Trials of Homeopathy" paper again you
will see that even though most studies were of poor quality, that some
of the studies were of excellent quality and that these studies showed
the same positive results as the studies of lower quality. I quote the
study as the best summary of research on homeopathy available in the
allopathic journals.
--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		ad astra per aspera
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: eldrache@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Martin Eldracher)
Subject: correct short-sightedness without glasses
Keywords: short-sightedness
Originator: eldrache@lulu.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 11:08:50 GMT


Some years ago I heard, that you can get again better eyes by having an 
earring. Now (through intensive computing) I am geetin more and more 
short-sughted. The symptoms are, that after computing (but also after reading or everything which causes me to look only at short distances for a while) I can not see clearly everything what is farer away than three meters. After some hours
this is getting a little bit better. On the other hand I also see worse when I work physikally (e.g. doing sports).

Now to my question. Is there any way to get better sight again. Related to the earring I am thinking of accupunture, or is there some eye-training, homeopatic
remedies etc.?

-- 
							Martin

Martin Eldracher                    e-mail: eldrache@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: phoffman@orac.holonet.net (Paul E. Hoffman)
Subject: Re: Midwifery
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:59:34 GMT

I too am interested in a discussion of midwifery. Are there any midwives
out there? A good buddy of mine is studying to be a midwife, and she is
now in an internship in Texas for a few months.

>>Paul Hoffman
-- 
||  Why quote someone else?  ||
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: night@acm.rpi.edu (Trip Martin)
Subject: Holistic dentistry (was Re: Welcome to....)
Reply-To: night@acm.rpi.edu
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:44:19 GMT

In <1992Dec21.224009.7254@netcom.com> kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) writes:

>Appropriate topics include (but are not limited to): acupuncture,
>Alexander technique, alternative cancer therapies, aromatherapy,
>ayurveda, chiropractic, color therapy, healing, herbalism, holistic
>dentistry, 

What is holistic dentistry?  I've never heard of it, and am curious
about it.
--
Trip Martin
night@acm.rpi.edu
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Who here has been Rolfed?
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 14:03:57 GMT

Rolfing? Please explain what this is.

Also, could someone post a simple explanation of what homeopathy
and allopathy are for my fiance - I was unable to explain sufficiently.

Thanks in advance,
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: feathers@serss0 (Michael Feathers)
Subject: Who here has been Rolfed?
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 13:23:54 GMT

A while back I had the first of the series of ten rolfing sessions.  Since I
was a starving student I stopped there and never got around to continuing.

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me about their experiences being 
rolfed.  I'm thinking about having it done again, and I have a friend who
I may recommend it to for his back problems.  I know that Rolfers do not
make any claims about correcting painful conditions, but I know that some
aches and pains that I had from an automobile accident disappeared after
that first rolfing session.

I'm still leery of rolfing, though, since it changes body structure.  Has
anyone had their structure changed for the worse in Rolfing?
 


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: jsbus@netcom.com (JSB Corp)
Subject: Re: more on echinacea
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:40:41 GMT

One additional note on the echinacea thread ...
I have not seen this particular side effect mentioned
in any herb books, but I ( a male) notice a state of,
what's the medical term?  horney, when I use the herb.

-Tom
tomwa@jsbus.com
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Asthma, adult onset
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:02:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

In article 5185@netcom.com, rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
> 
>  greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
> 
> >I realized that I had the dreaded 'adult-onset' asthma. This, for anyone
> >not in the current informational flow about asthma, statistically is
> >very likely to stay with you for the rest of your life. Childhood asthma
> >often disappears.
> 
> Actually, your entire story is completely consistent with 
> current, conventional, allopathic diagnosis and treatment of 
> asthma.  There is no evidence you have given which supports
> any effect, positive or negative, of your alternative
> treatments, except lightening of your pockets.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
> 806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
> Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
> PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  


Dr. Kaplan,

What is your official position regarding whether or not homeopathy
should be allowed to be practiced in this country?

I won't try and grapple with someone so much more educated than myself,
<seriously>. I have been using Ventolin anywhere from 6 to 10 times
a day (more or less) for 2 years now. It wasn't until I made drastic
changes to my diet (working with Dr. Elson Haas in San Jose) and then
began recieving accupuncture treatments that I was even able to stop
the use of Theophylline (sp?) which had my blood pressure in the range
of 160/100 to 180/110.

My asthma was basically non-affected by weather changes, except cold, 
rainy weather where bronchial infections usually occur. I have intentionally
but reluctantly avoided the use of steroid inhalers but sometimes use
Chromilin Sodium (sp?).

As an MD obviously opposed to homeopathy, what would you possibly have to 
offer me that would bring with it the promise of correcting my asthma?

My initial consultation with my ND cost me $105.00. How much would you
charge me?

Greg



Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative