HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@enterprise.den.mmc.com (Steve Gilbert)
Subject: Road Tires
Organization: Martin Marietta
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:43:20 GMT

In article <9208190034.AA20891@hplomg.hpl.hp.com>, BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
|> Brian Radloff writes:
|> 
|> > I think Conti Grand Prix clinchers are great.
|> > [Some stuff deleted]
|> > IMHO, these are the BEST clinchers on the road.
|> 
|> I'm not sure about the timing so I don't know whether you read my earlier
|> posting on this subject but I would like to know what comparative evidence
|> you have for these findings.  Formerly I heard similar endorsements of a
|> Masi, Pogliaghi, Tomassini or Viner to mention a few, with similar missing
|> evidence.  I think it is casually expressed in conversation but when it
|> appears in print I think there must be a little more forethought involved.
|> Is there more evidence to your statements than you write?
|> 
|> jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Jobst,
I'm not sure that you comprehend what *IMHO* means !  The *O* stands
for *opinion* !  Now to quote the American Heritage Dictionary:

o*pin*ion n. 1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence, but not
          substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Therefore it follows that the *evidence* that you expect is *not* necessary,
since nothing is to be proven for Mr. Radloff to have an *opinion*!!!

Furthermore, if posting to this group subjects one to the scrutiny of
a professional trade journal, then *we* should all sit back and wait for
*you* to post your proofs on the best equipment, the best riding techniques,
etc.  The *rest of us* couldn't possibly do any better and therefore are
wasting our time! ;-)

You have a lot to share with this group. Don't blow your credibility by jumping
on everyone elses *opinion* that doesn't coincide with yours.
--
/\          Steve Gilbert
  \         Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
   \  /\    steve@xanadu.den.mmc.com
    \/  \___
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Drillium
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:58:42 GMT

Harry Phinney writes:

> drilled out brake levers.  Those levers (Universals) never failed me.  I
> might still use them if I could get hoods :-(, although their mechanical
> advantage is poor.

I think you will find that all brake levers with few exceptions have a
mechanical advantage of 4:1 and that calipers and other devices have a
mean mechanical advantage of 1:1.  This can be measured.  On the lever
the geometric dimensions can be measured and on the brake end, cable
travel to pad travel can be measured.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Why shave?
X-Xxdate: Sat, 15 Aug 92 13:20:26 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 12:20:53 GMT

In article <BszA7J.L5G@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> Eric Praetzel,
praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>At long last a plausable reason.
>  It makes it a lot easier to put on sun lotion.

And, it makes it much less painful when you massage your legs.   Nothing
like half the sensation
of half the hair ripping out when your getting a deep-muscle massage!
From: ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Tandems - help from experienced riders please?
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:03:33 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In article <kelvin.714112029@kickapoo.cs.iastate.edu> kelvin@kickapoo.cs.iastate.edu (Kelvin Don Nilsen) writes:
>
>My wife and I too just bought a tandem.  I am the more experienced
> rider and am captaining.  We too are looking for hints from
> the experts.  Perhaps some of you need to be reminded of typical
> neophyte problems.
>
>Here are some of the specific questions that we have:
>
>  Mounting the tandem is a bit of a trick for me.  My seat posts are
>   always high enough that stepping over them is no easy task.  On
>   my single bike, I always mount by stepping into the left peddle and
>   beginning to roll before swinging my leg over.  I can't do this
>   on the tandem unless I take a spin by myself before returning for
>   my stoker.  Suggestions?

Most people that I know are astride their bike before setting off.
Veteran tourists will often mount their bike by steadying the machine
with a hand on the saddle, leaning slightly backwards and swing a leg
over the handlebars.  As a long shot, I'd guess that this practice
emerged when the rear of the bike was encumbered with a heavily
loaded saddlebag etc.  Under such circumstances throwing a leg over
the saddle could be something of an obstacle course.  I wouldn't be
surprised if swinging a leg over the handlebars was ergonomically
more efficient.  The handlebars are normally lower than the saddle,
so you don't have to raise your leg so high.  Perhaps we need another
Dick Fosbury to popularise and publicise this practice.

The above practice works very well for the captain of a tandem.  Even
more so if the stoker is already in position.  It saves them
complaining about the sharp and hard cycling shoes which are
constantly being embedded in their ribs.  It also saves wear and tear
on your precious and expensive cycling shoes.  Just install the
stoker, mount the tandem, maintain the balance while they engage
their pedals and then instruct them press the turbo-boost button as
you both get under way.
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Carbon frame life, Kestrel, and warranties
Keywords: Kestrel, carbon fiber, warranty
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 23:52:35 GMT

ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>[Carbon-fiber frame breaks in crash; long-term problems w/ Kestrel.]

Two things:

I got e-mail at some point from a guy who felt his carbon-fiber frame
had gone ``dead''.  I asked for specifics.  He had a steel-framed bike
when he bought the carbon-fiber bike.  When he first bought the
carbon-fiber bike, he timed himself on both bikes and was ~1min. faster
on an ~40min. course (I don't recall the exact numbers; it was in that
ballpark).  After a couple years he felt the carbon-fiber bike was
`deadish' and redid the comparison timings.  He was ~3min. faster on
the steel bike, at about his old time on the course.  In short, his
carbon-fiber time had slipped by 4 min.  I do not recall that he
re-tested after he resumed riding the steel frame, so there were no
psycological or familiarity controls.

Second:

I recently talked with a national-class road racer who had just gotten
a new carbon-fiber frame.  I was curious (partly from the above e-mail)
and asked the racer about the expected life for the new frame.  The
answer? ``Probably the first major crash.''  I belive, though I do not
know, that this reflects obersvations about other racers' bikes.

Synopsis: carbon-fiber clearly has advantages, but it also has risks
that you don't get with other (``more conventional'') frames, where the
risks are well-known.  Plan accordingly.

		;-D on  ( Car buns )  Pardo
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:20822 ott.general:840
From: rwm@atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:45:28 EST
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,ott.general
Subject: Re: Bicycle Paths
	<BsDI5y.1qp@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>On my objection to an "atronomical" gas tax to build bike paths:

>Every so often someone posts something implying that we would all
>be better off if cars and trucks were outlawed.  I just hope the 
>authors of these posts don't take the idea too seriously.

  What I would love to see is a tax insentive for people who use
non-gas based modes of transportation (Such as Cycling) so that the
"Joy Riders" who have no real reason for being on the road won't be
destroying our environment with their odd form of recreation.

  The problem isn't the use of auto's, but the over-abuse of auto's where
a much healthier (Both to the drivers, and to everyone else) mode of
transportation existed.

>Brian Case
--
  Opinions expressed in this message are my Own. I represent nobody else.
  Russell McOrmond  rwm@Atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca Net Support:(613) 230-2282(V.32Bis)
  FidoNet 1:163/109 Welmat Help 1:1/139  Current WELMAT 'keeper of sources'.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: Groenke <kevin@ssc.space.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Super bike:un-super wheels
Organization: Shepherd Labs
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:51:11 GMT

>Wheels: Sun Metal 16A front, Ritchey Vantage Pro WCS rear. >Wheelsmith
15/17 front, 28/2X. Wheelsmith 14/16 rear, 32/3X.

I think I have to contest!!  I've had way too much experience with
Vantage's and it's all bad.  Nothing irks me more than seeing cracks
around spoke holes on a month old rim!!!  Wait I guess pulling a spoke
nipple though a rim in the middle of a race irks me alot too.
In my book if a rim doesn't have eyelets, I won't buy it, no matter how
much praise I hear.  I like the Matrix Mt. Titans at 395 grms, I think
the Mavic's have eyelets too.

I would also consider the Boulder Defiant Ti frame
***********************************************
Kevin J. Groenke
Student Lab Services Coordinator               o               o
Shepherd Laboratories                       (  \-           (  \-
University of Minnesota                  (*) \ (*)       (*) \ (*)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???)
Subject: pros in olympics
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:31:09 GMT

this is my personal opinion, but i don't really think pros
should be allowed to ride in the olympics.  i think that
would have a really adverse effect on amatuer cycling in 
this country and across europe, etc.  one of the stronger
development programs in the u.s. is the olympic training
center, and if pros were allowed in the olympics, a lot
of money might disappear from that program.  track racing
probably wouldn't be affected as much as road, but it still
would have an effect.  leave the pros out, let them ride
in the worlds and leave the olympics for those who don't
have big contracts behind them.

andy

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: Gas Taxes R Us 
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: rec.bicycles
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:40:41 GMT

In article <189malb.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
|> Amtrak has a little experience in this subject:
|> Consistently they have managed to get ridership up to the point
|> of paying approximately 55% of their expenses. 

Your info is quite moldy.  Amtrak's farebox recovery ratio hasn't been
that low since somewhere around 1985.  They have been in the 70-80%
range since 1989.  Certain routes like the Washington-NYC-Boston Corridor
and the San Diegans have been profitable.


|> recall the crying of the social reformers in Congress to the effect
|> that if we pay for Amtrak it will soon learn to pay for itself.

Amtrak's goal is 100% by the year 2000.  They have been making good
progress toward that goal with farebox recovery ratios inching up
over the years.  As a result, Amtrak's operating subsidy (in constant,
inflation-adjusted dollars) has been going *down* over the years.

-- 

UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: ag@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (andy garton)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 10:45:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Uni-Discs?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

My, how I hate VI ;-)

Andy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: gordon@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Gordon Miller)
Subject: Re: Mounting a Kirtland Handlebar bag on a MTB
Keywords: Handlebar bag solution
Organization: Computer Sciences Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:01:07 GMT


Tom Ervolina writes:

    I have a large Kirtland handlebar bag which mounts fine on a road bike but
    doesn't fit on my MTB.  It's the old standard mounting system with a heavy
    duty bar that fits under the neck of the stem and over the handlebars and
    then widens to hold the bag along its sides.  Then there's elastic straps
    that hook into the eyelets on the forks. Anyway, it seems like all I need
    is a different bar with all the bends in the right places so it will fit
    the fatter, sloped stem of my MTB.  Is there a company that makes such a
    thing?  (I heard that Kirtland went out of business.)  Thanks.

I think I have just the product for you.  Rhode Gear used to make a product 
that will allow you to mount our road bike style handle bar bag on your 
stock MTB bar.  Unfortunately, they are no longer making (or selling) them.  
You can sometimes find them in a bike shop's clearance bin.  I know, I just 
installed one on my bike a couple of days ago.  It is basically a 1 inch 
long nose (for lack of a more technical term) that mounts just to the left
or right of your the handlebar stem.  The mounting bar for you rack then 
slips on just like on a road bike.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember the 
product name, but if you want more information, send me mail.  I'll get all 
the details out to you.

Gordon Miller                           Integral Systems, Inc.
gordon@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov              1100 West Street
(301) 497-2416                          Laurel, MD 20707
From: khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Olympic IRR teamwork (was: NBC's Olympic Coverage)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:45:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.bicycles, tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402) writes:

> Maybe, maybe not.  Hampsten seems to have more trouble with distance than
> elevation.  He faded badly on the much longer stage the previous day to
> Sestriere...

Exsqueeze me, but I would hardly calling finishing in 4th place at ~1 minute
behind the leader "fading badly" on a 170 mile race!!!!!  

What I find interesting is how well Hampsten did on the long Sestriere
stage, since endurance isn't his strong point, as you mentioned.

In a column I read last off season, Hampsten talked about how he is
training to try to improve his fat burning mechanisms to save valuable
glycogen stores for the intense aerobic effort at the end of a stage
with a mountain top finish.  If I recall correctly, his training program
included some days with *slightly* higher fat for pre-ride breakfast
(but still *NOT* a high fat breakfast, at under 30% calories from fat).
He would then head out for a long 4-6 hour ride, drinking just water
the first hour or two to train his body to burn the fat from the morning
meal.

This correlates with the lipoprotein absorption studies done by my wife, 
a PhD nutritionist.  Her studies suggest that fat is absorbed and stored 
in muscle sites faster than we had previously believed, which would suggest
that fat is more useful food for extended exercise than thought before.  She 
has also mentioned other studies which contradict the common knowledge that 
"fat only burns at aerobic exercise intensity levels".

Too much fat in a meal during an *intense* ride can cause stomach problems,
but for endurance riding 30% calories from fat in a meal can be helpful.

And then there's the new studies showing higher mortality rates from
suicide, stroke, cancer, etc., for those with low blood cholesterol
levels....

Keith Erskine
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Chain Cleaners
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:11:24 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article <1683B803.RONEAL@lexmark.com> RONEAL@lexmark.com writes:
>to purchase one of the currently available chain cleaners, which one is the
>better of the two - Park's chain cleaner or the Vetta Chain Cleaner?  Or,
>

I've only used the Vetta, not the Park or Finish Line. However, another
product known as Citra-Solv. Also a citrus-based cleaner (much easier
on the environment), Citra-Solv is *much* more potent and effective than
the Vetta (I usually dilute Citra-Solv). And although it's not cheap
($12 32 oz), it's less expensive than Vetta ($9 16 oz) or Finish Line
($10 16 oz).

Michael Wong
msw10@amdahl.com
From: ra_novy@DAL.MOBIL.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Heart Rate Survey: Follow-up
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:07:58 GMT

I'm glad to see interest in the survey, and I have some things to add.  First,
I'll quote (with permission) one of the respondents, who makes an important
point:

>Having worked with many cyclists at the olympic training center in
>Colorado as well as numerous sports physiologists and PhD candidates
>it's clear to me that heart rate is highly overvalued as a measure of
>fitness or fatigue.  Like Max VO2 it bears little correlation with
>actual physical performance and is as likely to have a negative effect
>than positive when used for training purposes.  Elite athletes are far
>better off listening to their bodies than putting any faith in a
>single physiological measurement with little proven benefit as a
>training aid.
>                         Roger Marquis (marquis@well.sf.ca.us)

I especially like the part about listening to your body.  It's not just for the
elite.  How I feel on a given day largely determines what sort of ride I'll do.
 Don't let numbers dictate your training!
Influence?  Perhaps.  Dictate?  No.

I do, however, find that a heart rate monitor is great for at least two
reasons:
  1) It helps me stick to an easy pace by indicating when I've given in to
     the temptation to work too hard, and
  2) It helps me take it easier in >95F weather.  The heart does a LOT more
     work on these days because the old cooling system has to work darn hard.
     Overexertion in such heat can be hard to forsee otherwise because so
     much sweat evaporates before it can coalesce into drips and drops.  In
     Dallas, we don't have the famous humidity that Houstonians enjoy.

Finally, here are a few more data points that came in after I posted the
summary.  I decided to post them because the contributors took the time to send
them in, not because I want to emphasize numbers.

Age    Min    Max
24     50     195
26     43
27     36     190
33     45     180
33     26     192
34     50     195
34     45     208
35     38     205
35     76     182
38     60
40     37
46     50     193
49     40     185

The min rate of 26 is genuine; I checked with the owner, and it isn't a typo.

Bob Novy
ra_novy@dal.mobil.com
Dallas, TX

Vacuous Justification #1: It's the '90s.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: mprime@zinc.Berkeley.EDU (Michael B. Prime)
Subject: Re: Trispokes
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:32:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.201540.14955@husc3.harvard.edu> kim39@scws8.harvard.edu (John Kim) writes:
>
>	If you really wanted a disk-type wheel on a MTB (but not a
>tri-spoke), you might consider that Disc-drive wheel that soembody
>was promoting with John Tomac ads in the bike mags.  It is not,
>as far as I can tell from the ads, a composite wheel, a tri spoke,
>or a true disk wheel.  
>	I think this wheel is built on a fiarly standard-design
>rim, but that instead of spokes, special cords are laced between
>the nipple holes (what kind of nipples they use, I have no idea),
>and the flange holes.  
>
It is used with standard rim and a standard hub. The "cords" are Kevlar
laced in a cat's cradle type arrangement.

>	Perhaps a MTB rider who has seen this wheel can comment.
>How does one keep it true?  It might be made by Tioga.
>
It is trued just like a normal wheel, but with a special tool for the
custom nipples. If you ever get in a crash and mess up the wheel you can
just build it back up on another rim. They are made by Sugino (marketed
under Tioga for mt. bikes). I have a track version and it is the lightest
disc wheel I've ridden. Because the Kevlar is under tension (they call it
a tension disc wheel) it rides like a normal wheel. 

Mike
From: davesnyder@igc.apc.org (Dave Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Lead and Commuting
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:49:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug17.150638.12202@maths.tcd:265869849:cdp:1449700036:000:466
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!davesnyder    Aug 17 12:49:00 1992


In New York, a health study ws conducted on messengers, who obviously
spend huge portions of their day breathing deeply the toxins cars
belch out. Yet, their lungs wer in better shape than the average
car commuter's. it seems the helath benefits of regular cardiovascular
exercise outweighed the hazrds of auto exhaust.

Nevertheless, I remain concerned. I
m not sure the study was authoritative and took into account
everything it should have. *You make the call.*
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: morris@samson.bnr.ca (Morris Bernstein)
Subject: Maximum heart rate (was Re: Heart Rate Survey: Results)
Reply-To: bnrmtl!morris@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:30:10 GMT

In article <25452@dog.ee.lbl.gov> DEBbliss@lbl.gov (David E. Bliss) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.152939.13702@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM> 
>jdm@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Jim Moore) writes:
>> ra_novy@dal.mobil.com writes:
>> 
>> >Here are the data that more than 50 cyclists sent me.  Given below are 
>age
>> >(sorted), minimum rate, and maximum rate. It's well known that 
>variation in
>> >rates from person to person is high, but the survey satisfied my 
>curiosity. 
>> >Judging from the responses, I think it will satisfy others too.
>> 
>> >Thanks to all who took the time to send a reply.
>> 
>> ...
>> These numbers are very encouraging! Definitely doesn't follow the
>> 220-(age in years) formula for max rate. Perhaps I don't have to
>> assume that my aerobic capacity will decline at about 1 bpm/year!
>
>I plotted out the results of the survey and made a linear fit to them and 
>it is surprisingly close to the 220 - age rule of thumb.  The actual 
>numbers I got were  max. H.R. = 213 - .75(age). The maximum deviations 
(statistics deleted)

Just out of curiosity, how do people measure their maximum heart rate.
Do they go over it and drop dead from heart attacks?

I can figure out my resting heart rate by taking my pulse in the
morning and my aerobic threshold by sustaining a certain heartrate
during a workout, but how do I determine my max heart rate.

I'm particularly curious about this because I recently had my VO2 max
calculated based on 85% of my max heart rate, where max heart rate is
220 - (my age).  This worked out to about 162.  I didn't believe the
results, so I went and sustaind a heart rate of over 180.  What does
this tell me?


Morris

--
Morris Bernstein		 phone:	(514) 765-8275
Bell Northern Research Ltd. 	 fax:	(514) 765-0500
worldnet: bnrmtl!morris@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
"Knowlege is a mind-expanding drug."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: alant@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Alan Tragarz (JD))
Subject: Re: Kellogg's Tour of Britain - Stage 1 Result
Organization: NCR Corp., E&M San Diego
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:04:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.132131.18122@cs.hw.ac.uk> sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk writes:
>
>
>The 1992 Tour of Britain got under way yesterday with a circuit race through
>Dundee.  News before the event : Stephen Roche pulled out after crashing
>in Spain last week; Greg Lemond particpates in the Z team and Abduzhaparov
>is in.
>
>[Competition: suggest a name for people who go round the race area
>wearing the full team rig-out, but who are not pro cyclists ?]
>
How about 'wannabees' or 'progeeks'. Thanks for the race coverage.

P.S. You weren't one of the ones riding around with the team outfit on, were
you?