From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Registering "Assault Keys"
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:15:57 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / unruh@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh) / 12:22 pm  Nov 10, 1992 /

>>|> I understand that a ban on handguns would merely be a band-aid. That
>>|> doesn't change my preference.
>
>> I'm curious.  Why not?
>
>Clearly you are a believer in the maxim that if a solution is not final
>and complete it is not worth implimenting at all. No sane person
>believes that the registring/ banning / whatever of guns would sole all
>problems. Neither does medicine solve the problem of death. But even
>bandaids help ( or don't yo own any of those since they aren't the
>complete solution)/

Band-aids are fine.  Can you tell the difference between a band-aid and
pouring acid in wounds?  Registering/banning/whatever will likely solve
fewer problems than it creates.  We have several very good examples of
this that you've chosen to ignore.  On the other hand, you've presented
no case FOR your claims, other than some sort of vague paranoia, and a
statement that certain actions would give you a warm fuzzy feeling.
Well bully for you.

>> If the goal is to make society safer, clearly the problem to be addressed is
>>  violent crime, of all sorts.  Banning handguns isn't gonna solve it - but
>>  you already know that!
>
>Yes and controlling peoples ability to commit violent acts is part of
>the solution- not all of it, part of it.
>Many of the guns used in crimes are stolen- stolen from all those law
>abiding citizens who never use them. And if there are more available to
>steal they are easier to steal.

Controlling WHOSE ability?  Criminals get guns no matter what.  They
MAKE them IN THE PRISONS, for crying out loud.  You can make a gun for
about three dollars and a trip to the hardware store.  Well, maybe YOU
can't but you can bet that sort of knowledge makes the rounds in the
joint and on the street.  If you are not the lazy type, you can look it
up in your local library.  In fact, a year in a prison machine shop will
give you the skills required to follow a set of (easily available) plans
and make a MACHINE GUN.  Not those puny semi autos the media is fond of
whining about, but a fully automatic MACHINE GUN.  (Not that M.G.s are
especially dangerous, and certainly not as dangerous as the media would
have you believe.)

>> If you simply don't like handguns, fine.  Don't own one.
>
>I don't know about the original poster but I don't like them in your, or
>other peoples hands. Like you I feel that I am infinitely responsible
>and would never never misuse any gun I owned Unfortunately I do not
>have the same confidence in you, or others , and am willing to give up

Sounds like you have some serious paranoia.

>my utterly responsile freedom in order to help protect me from other's
>irresponsibility.

mmmm.  Are you advocating taking firearms away from the police and
military too?  Or is it just random people that you fear?  Perhaps it is
the lack of uniforms that you fear?  Tell me, Id like to know.  If it is
the police you trust, I believe there is an officer on trial in
California for raping two women.  I didn't see a lot of help from the
police on the TV during the LA riots.  There are MANY cases of police
gone bad or abusing their powers/responsibilities.  (This doesn't mean
that I distrust police any more than any other class of people.)
Obviously police guns don't do you much goo either.  In fact police are
'victims' of mistaken identity shootings more often than private
citizens.  (I've often wondered how much of this is due to the fact that
most police have at least a little bit of training and as a result take
fewer chances with 'armed' assailants.)

At any rate, it may come as a surprise to you, but police weapons are
really for one purpose.  It isn't to protect you, or administer justice,
or apprehend criminals.  The purpose of the officers weapon is as last
resort protection for the life of the officer.  Now do you suppose that
police have some sort of divine right to that sort of protection?  What
makes them better than you/me?  Keep in mind that some police
departments shoot only 36 rounds a year to qualify.  They know, on the
average, no more about their weapons than most gun owners.

From here on out, I'm referring to the rhetorical 'you.' this is not
directed specifically at William, but at those who appear to think the
way he does.  If he wants to take this personally, all I can say is 'if
the shoe fits.'

I'd like to make a suggestion.  If you (the rhetorical you here) are the
sort of individual that suspects that they would go wild and kill their
friends/neighbors/etc. with a gun if you had one, check yourself into an
institution now.  You are a danger to yourself and others, gun or no.

If you feel able to handle a such responsibility safely, but distrust
other honest people, you have are seriously disturbed, either that or
you have some sort of delusion that you are in some way superior to the
rest of us.  You should probably seek treatment as well.  You may not be
dangerous, but you sure are not very well adjusted.

Otherwise, who the hell are you to judge me?  Why don't you quit
whimpering about something that you know little about (most often by
your own admission) and let the rest of us healthy, well adjusted
individuals who have evaluated the risks and made our decisions, go on
with our lives.

>> If you feel that they are just too dangerous for people to own, consider the
>>  numbers - there are about 200 million handguns in the US, and about 12000
>>  firearms homicides per year, and 1400 accidental firarms deaths.  That makes
>>  firearms safer than automobiles.
>>
> Uh, hardly. divide the number of deaths by the number of times they
>are used, not by the number. There are "billions" of molecules of cyanide
>in the universe. That does not make them any the less dangerous when
>used.	

Well, I guess you have to define use.  I carry at least part of the day
every day of the year.  Does that count as 365 uses?  Do I actually have
to shoot it?  Ok, I shoot an average of 12,000 to 15,000 rounds a year.
This certainly ought to be uses eh?  For the mathematically impaired this
works out to a an average of 33 uses per day.  I don't use my car
anywhere near 12,000 times a year.  As one person regularly notes, my
guns are statistically far safer than Ted Kennedy's car.  There are more
guns than cars.  The death rate for guns even counting intentional uses
by criminals, is far lower.

Rick.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns