HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Carabiner brake, was Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:29:56 GMT

In article <8f085Q600axfAPjV8A@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
 
> there is a way to rappell without a standard rappell/belay device...
> 
> just wrap the rope around a biner that is clipped into your harness and
> away you go.  Unfortunately this wy is very fast, and if done
> incorrectly, it can be very deadly.  

This is not the carabiner brake system I use.  What I do -- this is my
standard rap system, I dislike rapping on a Sticht plate -- is clip two
ovals in opposite directions (so that the gates are on opposite sides)
through my harness loop, and hold them together, flat in front of me.
I take a bight of the rope up through the carabiners, and clip two more
carabiners, one from each side, across the first two ovals but under
the rope, such that the gates are on the bottom (the rope goes over the
solid part of the biners).  

[If you know what I'm talking about, you don't need the description.  If
you don't, this is a totally inadequate explanation, so don't try this
at home, kids, without someone to show you how it's done.]

Advantages of this system are that it's far smoother than a Sticht plate
(assuming that's your belay device), particularly with 11mm ropes, it 
doesn't twist the rope, and it doesn't require any extra equipment, provided
you haven't replaced all your carabiners with weirdly-shaped super-light
stuff.

Disadvantages are that you need four ovals (well, you don't in an emergency,
but as a standard rap method you do), and that since there are a lot of 
moving parts, so to speak, there's a lot that can go wrong.  This was
the first rappel method that I learned, and it was a long while before 
Britt trusted me to set it up correctly by myself without him checking it.
A beginner (even an expert) could easily get distracted and place the
carabiners the wrong way.

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: Re: what to do with a 2 in crack?
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:58:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct26.202112.3267@fcom.cc.utah.edu> storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm) writes:
>In my last posting :-) "Battle of the Bludge" = "Battle of the Bulge"
>combination of bad spelling and out of control fingers!
>
>friends that skid 2' refers to gear not people!
>
>John Storm
>SLC UT
>storm@geog.utah.edu
  Hey, my fingers get out of control when I start thinking about
those technical cracks too! Except I'd probably type "Battle of the
Blood"!

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sshostek@sshostek.mentorg.com (Steve Shostek)
Subject: Re: Climbing Movies
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 18:59:33 GMT
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <30133@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com>, rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig) writes:
|> Where can I get some climbing movies?  Not the -how to- kind,
|> the -adventure- kind.  Every climbing author talks about a movie
|> being made.  Where can I find these -doccumentary- films?
|> 

Try Chessler Books, (800)654-8502 or (303)670-0093. Chessler stocks
lots of mountaineering videos.

-- 
* steve_shostek@mentorg.com         | Harmony with land is like harmony with  *
* sshostek@mentorg.com              | a friend. You cannot cherish his right  *
* {uunet, attunix}!mntgfx!sshostek  | hand and chop off his left.             *
*                                   |          --Aldo Leopold                 *
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:07:09 EST
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters
 <levinesw.720973101@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>
 <93asw-051192151309@biology-mac07.williams.edu>

In article <93asw-051192151309@biology-mac07.williams.edu>, 93asw@williams.edu
(Andrew Wright) says:
>
>The scene in question here involved Tony's rope fraying as he was climbing
>over the lip of an overhang.  He had a hand and a heel hook barely
>supporting him and had to lunge to get another hand on.  Just as he lunged,
>the rope breaks, but his desparation move saved the day.  The scoop from

 From what I heard they had a hell of a time getting this rope to
break for the shot.  They tied a large rock on the end and kept throwing
it off with all but 3 strands of rope cut and the rope just wouldn't
break.  They eventually had to cut all but 1 strand and they still had
throw the rock over twice before it would break.

                         Jim Bowers

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: janem@mentorg.com (Jane Merrow)
Subject:  Lots of years left      
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:22:32 GMT
Reply-To: jane_merrow@mentorg.com
Organization: 'Mentor Graphics Corporation'
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


--

Just wanted to thank folks for their examples of older
climbers still enjoying climbing.  It leads me to hope
that I'll be one of them someday.  

-----------------------------
Jane Merrow
jane_merrow@mentorg.com
Portland, Oregon
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:53:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: aspen.TIMSC.92Nov9095327
	<1992Nov6.050601.1607@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ


Last weekend at JT my friend Scott (41) bagged the most stars and the
most difficulty for the weekend when he finished a 5.11b over in the
hall of horrors.  I (28) followed him on it only after much hanging and
lots of falling!  Sandy (>40) also made it up.  

None of the other "twenty somthings" even cared to try!  They just sat
on the rock in the sun and offered "helpful" suggestions, while eating 
all of Dan's (18) food!

great weekend, great weather, great climbing, great friends!




--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject: Re: Tying off friends
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:45:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.102014.22677@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>
> Also tieing off your friends is easy and is fairly standard. Just tie
> a sling into the trigger slot in the shaft of the friend.  

Actually, I believe most people (and I) thread spectra cord through one of the
weight-reducing holes between the trigger slot and the cams. When using friends
in horizontal slots (as in the Gunks) the cord runs over the edge so that the
pull is directed out, rather than across the stem. Spectra is fairly strong
over an edge, but if the edge is sharp you wouldn't want to trust your life to
it. 

Having a sling in the trigger slot seems sketchy. Under some circumstances it
might *remove* the friend!

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: acmtsv@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Thomas Scott Vaughn)
Subject: Re: RElearning to lead
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:13:57 GMT

I think most "good" climbers go through this.  I've spent a lot of
time trying to improve my physical fitness so that I could feel more
confident on the lead.  It hasn't worked yet for me.  

The only thing I've found to work is to master your fear, because to 
climb hard is to work hard.  Except for some extraordinary individuals,
those 5.11 holds still feel pretty small to the 5.12 leader when he's 
25 feet out on marginal gear (not unusual in the Southeast).  It's not
strength that will carry you through the runout (it may help!), it's a
cool head ultimatly.

This is a difficult concept, because I personally am not motivated to 
climb to experience fear and cheat death on every lead.  One must 
admit that pulling off a dangerous move and making it look easy is
explosive to the ego.  But explain that to your loved ones when you're
dead.

My advice for the leader who has lost his confidence is to evaluate
what about climbing is the most fun.  If it's not defying death, don't
worry, your not alone and certainly no less of a climber for it.

Climb for the fun of it!
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:27:39 GMT
Subject: Re: "You know you're old when" revisited
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, janem@smills.mentorg.com (Jane Merrow) writes:

> My husband and I started rock climbing last fall, and are
> now avid climbers, and continuing to improve technically all
> the time (very satisfying).  Here's my question.  We're both
> 40 years old (darn, all those years we could have been climbing
> but didn't know) and are wondering how aging affects
> climbing abilities.  I assume strength and balance diminish
> sometime along the way, and that one might have to be satisfied
> with lower-difficulty climbs.  Are there any 50, 60, or 70 year
> old climbers out there?  How many years climbing do we have left? 
> 
I'm sure you will get lots of encouragement here, but I will add to it anyway.
You should have a lot of years left.  I'll be 33 soon.  I'm lighter and much
stronger than I was in high school.  I climb much better now than at anytime
in my 20's.  I don't see an end to this trend of improvement anytime soon.

Examples:
 - Fritz Weissner climbed 5.8 into his 80's.
 - The mother of the Le Menestral brothers leads 5.12 in her 40's.
 - A local climber just turned 60 and leads 5.11.

It's all in the attitude (and maybe a little in the training).

Mort


Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:43:24 -0500 
From: "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: No More Write-Ups?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.climbing: 10-Nov-92 Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
srclark@happy.colorado.e (1322)


> What did you do jump? You didn't have a rap device! Jesus, you're scary.

> Steve

there is a way to rappell without a standard rappell/belay device...


just wrap the rope around a biner that is clipped into your harness and
away you go.  Unfortunately this wy is very fast, and if done
incorrectly, it can be very deadly.  The army calls an incorrect
carabiner rappell 'FATAL LOCK' because the rope clips through the biner
so there is nolonger any friction slowing you down.  If done properly
this is a very effective way to rappell quickly. Just make sure that you
are doing it the right way before you jump off the edge, it's normally a
long way down...

Just a spare piece of information, just trying to help this guy out a
bit. Although it i pretty bad to have started a multi-pitch climb
without enough belay devices for all those involved.
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Direct Euro-belays
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:25:04 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov6.205954.17807@guinness.idbsu.edu>,
jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
>|>  I'll belay him through me by way of an anchor that would hold us
>|>  BOTH in ANY situation, thank you very much.
>|>
>|>  Creator of decent anchors - Max Elliott.
>               ^^^^^^
>
>As opposed to Andrew = Creator of descent anchors???

Sheeesh.  All this flaming about achors!  Shouldn't this be posted
to rec.sailing?
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brendan@buck.ac.uk (Brendan Murphy)
Subject: Re: yes, we do exist
Organization: University of Buckingham
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:05:39 GMT

In article <a8.Y02fH2awf01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, mzp24@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com 
(Marshall Pease) writes:

>Thus (Brendan Murphy):
>>I'm feeling pretty chuffed with myself for getting a decaying
>   Orion on the air,
>      
>Personally I would be glad if You People post more.  I can't always
>tell what you're talking about, but it's fun to read.  "chuffed"!
>Has to do with the sporting life, I spoze; BBC World News is 
>Not Like This.

On the subject of the English language, in article 
<1992Nov4.205804.60401@cc.usu.edu>, sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:

	[text deleted]

>So, how was harrisons? Has the concrete shielding at the top
>got any easier recently? Is there still a hex stuck at the back
>of long lieback, and most importantly, did it rain?
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

A "long lieback" is the sort of thing a British climber might do after 
partaking of too many ales.  "Long Layback", on the other hand, is a classic
route (pronounced "root" over here) at Harrisons ... :-)

Brendan
-- 
********************************************************************************
Brendan Murphy					brendan%buck.ac.uk@uknet.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science			Tel: 0280 814080
University of Buckingham, MK18 1EG, UK		Fax: 0280 822245
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jking@socs.uts.edu.au (smathy werp)
Subject: Re: Fall factors
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date:  6 Nov 92 06:23:44 GMT


tron@tc.fluke.COM (Peter Barbee) writes:

>Of course fall factor is as most have said (distance fallen / rope out)
>but do not forget that a factor 1 fall that's 40 feet will still probably
>hurt more than a factor 1 fall of 20 feet.

peter .. 
	this is NOT TRUE .. the force is directly related to the Fall Factor
	try it one day .. the bigger the fall the more the rope stretches
	and the softer the deceleration (although you have more acceleration
	to kill .. so it makes exactly the same force as a small fall
	with the same fall factor) .. hence the less it hurts ..

	.. ill wait for the following flames from THIS entry .. however it
	doesnt matter because (barring any pedantic claims from quantum
	physicists) i am right this time .. i think *8^)

	thats all
--


	| Life: Jason | IRC: elephant | email: jking@socs.uts.EDU.AU |

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com (Tim Tow)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Reply-To: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:30:42 GMT

In article <eric.721520600@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
|> 
|> I doubt that many climbers or landowners have a clue as to what the chance
|> of a landowner being found liable would actually be, and I suspect that it
|> is vanishingly small.  I would encourage the climbing mags to educate climbers
|> on the actual risks to landowners.  Since most climbers know how to work a
|> Xerox machine, they could in turn educate landowners without much trouble.
|> The old line "I know I would never sue you, and I can't imagine any of my
|> friends doing it either" just isn't all that convincing.  The other reason

Here in Alabama we have the law that limits liability to landowners who
open up their land to "non-commercial public recreational use"...  It 
makes those who "recreate" responsible for their own safety... what a novel
idea..

The law was initially enacted in 1965 and amended in 1981 and has been upheld
in the State Supreme Court in at least one (tragic) case in which 4 children
drowned.  The Court stated "[the landowner] had no duty to any person using
the property for recreation, to inspect for, make safe from or warn of, any 
dangers involved with this property.  These children went to the creek to wade
and play.

Although the accident was tragic, the landowner was not responsible.... 

If anyone would like more info, drop me a line and I will get you a copy
of the article I quoted this from...

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tim Tow                              |                                      
 Intergraph Corporation               | "Injustice anywhere is a             
 Huntsville, AL                       |      threat to justice everywhere"    
 Mailpath:..timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com |                                      
 Voice:                  205-730-2117 |         - Dr Martin Luther King, Jr
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters 
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:00:48 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Nov12.173527.21414@Cadence.COM>, bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson) writes:
|>   Grand Illusion is at Sugarloaf, which is closer to Lake Tahoe 
|> than the Leap. It was indeed done in '79, and is rated 13b. Yes,
|> this feat was WAY ahead of it's time. Just a foot note.

Here is an even more trivial footnote.  Sugarloaf is FURTHER away from
Lake Tahoe than the Leap.  It is just a little further west on highway 50
from the Leap.

I thought the climb was rated 13c?  Anyway, one hell of a climb...to look
at that is!

-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: K2
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:52:07 GMT

In article <Bx4141.A1y@world.std.com> gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>>for the list of Karakorum peaks.  You might learn something.
>>K2 isn't the second highest peak, it was the second peak surveyed.
>>The trivia is in knowing how many K peaks there are (were) and why.
>
>Is this a secret Eugene? Are you hoping to force me on a bibliographic
>mission throughout Boston? Answers requested: what IS the highest peak;
>what IS K1; how many K peaks are there, and why? I want to "learn
>something." Anything. Please enlighten me.
>
  K2 is the second highest peak in the world, next to
Everest, which is not in the same range. I am sure
just about everyone on the net knows this, but what
the hell. That is the extent of my K2nowledge on this
matter. Your semi-enlightened!


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: levinesw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Steve W. Levine)
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:18:21 GMT

sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:

>Anyone heard anything about an IMAX theater presentation that includes
>footage of a climber taking a big whipper? A colleague at work said he
>saw such a film in San-somewhere or another, but had no further details.
>Claimed it was pretty good though.
>Bob.

I saw the film this summer at an Omnimax theather in Cincinnati.  It featured
three segments -- rock climbing, downhill skiing, and ballet.  The rock
climbing took place at Yosemite.  It did show quite a winger, but it was
obviously staged as evidenced by the camera locations.  However, watching it
on the huge Omnimax screen was quite thrilling.  I'm not sure as to the name
of the film, but I think it was "To the Limit" or something like that.

Steve
levinesw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject:  Re: IMAX theaters 
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:19:52 GMT

Biographical footnote for newer climbers:

Tony Yaniro (climbing buddy of Randy Leavitt from way back) established Grand
Illusion (Lover's Leap?), widely regarded as the the first 5.13, back around
'79 (way ahead of its time, in any case). He also did an early (if not the
first) ascent of Sphinx Crack 5.13 (South Platte?). Anyway, he was one of the
top climbers in the US at the time and an early non-trad. He dropped out of
climbing for much of the 80's, but is back into it now and doing respectably in
comps.

In any case, they didn't yank this dude out of central casting!
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Ommission to my chopper post
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:47:24 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Something I forgot : Chopped routes.

At our meeting, a couple of people were asking the FS if they would issue
citations if they caught anyone chopping. One post mentions vandalism of
our property. M<y understanding was that placing a bolt is actually allowd
but not 'protected' in any way. Again, I dont want to get the pro/anti
bolt war going again [;-)] but does anyone have the real story on the
letter of the law - wilderness vs Nat Pk. vs FS vs BLM vs Private land?
Mail me if you wish and I'll post a summary if needed.
Thanks,
Bob
(oops, that was allowed, my, don't etc.)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody...OUT THERE?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 18:07:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.185538.16843@buck.ac.uk> brendan@buck.ac.uk
(Brendan Murphy) writes:
>Does this help counter the US bias?

The only way to counter the US bias is to buy more computers made place
them on the net with more climbers.  It's simply sheer numbers of machines and
people.  There are attitude differences, but those are minor.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Yes, we do exist
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:30:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.172526.11532@aber.ac.uk> azw@aber.ac.uk
(Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>There are one or two of us! I also was unsure whether my postings were getting
>thru. I sent a longish one (deliberately inflammatory - I have a reputation
>to maintain!) on Euro belaying, but was very surprised not to get any hate
>mail.

Some of your posts are getting thru.  My measurements of connectivity
show something like an 80% receive rate (getting worse).  If anyone will get
hate mail, it will be me 8^).  Just ask Rolland Waters and others 8^).
Why, in fact, there is no assurance you will read this.
[p.s. Roland is a good correspondent and friend from his BBN days.]

>Is this group edited, or lacking matches?

Nope, but lots of topics like bolts and chalk have circulated on this group
3-4 times, then 3-4 times in rec.backcountry before that, and 2 times
on Nordby's old climbing mailing list (now defunct).  I want to populate
the FAQ panels with these old arguments so we can move on to other topics.
But I don't want to do all the writing.  No time.

If posts aren't getting thru or if you read totally empty articles that's
because your news/mail system is dropping them, that's because someone
probably posted a GIF image in a /usr/spool/news/rec file system or
/usr/spool/notes system up stream of you preventing any rec.climbing because
the file system overflowed.  You should talk to your news admin if you
are having problems.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing