HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: New version of DOS coming out?  (NOOO!!  Anything but *that*!)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:03:59 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul28.153134.11068@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> darylb@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>From the "Late News" section of PC Week, dated July 27, 1992, p.142:
>  
>  Microsoft Readies New Version of DOS
>
>       Microsoft Vice President Brad Silverberg last week declined to 
>  confirm specific features, but said the "first version [of MS-DOS] that
>  will come out is oriented toward solving particular end-user
>  needs."
>
>I wonder which particular end-user needs they're talking about?  Maybe 
>they'll finally lose that ridiculous 128-character PATH size limit.

Maybe they'll make the code re-entrant so Windows can do something
while accessing the floppy disk! :-)  That'd be a boon for TSR
publishers, as well (BTW: Does MS still deny the possibility of TSR
programs under DOS?)

-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
From: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: paid ms employees
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:42:52 EST
Reply-To: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In message <1992Jul16.211245.22877#microsoft.com>, philipla@microsoft.com
(Phil Lafornara) writes:


MIN>I want point out one last thing:  Have you ever seen an IBMer either
MIN>defending os/2 or attacking windows or windows nt.

PL>     I don't know what IBMs policy is on this - I don't even know if
PL>they regularly give their employees access to Usenet.  I remember one

When I was on contract at  IBM (the last two years), IBM  employees most
definately DID have access to Internet through vnet.com or ibm.com,  but
you had to request permission from the local site to do this. As for IBM
policy, they have _extremely_ strict rules about (mis)representation  of
IBM, their products, and their competitors.

PL>person (Larry Solomon?) who ran into some trouble due to his postings
PL>on the net (at least I think so - I'm very unclear on the detail on this).
PL>Can someone more knowledgable than me elaborate?

I won't name the individuals involved, but the entire episode is  rather
sad. The IBMer innocently showed an  internal IBM posting to a buddy  of
his to display the frustration going on *inside* IBM regarding the  poor
marketing effort. The buddy didn't  realize that this was not  meant for
public  consumption,  and  promptly  posted  it  on  one  or more of the
comp.os.os2 groups over  the weekend. Anyway,  the IBMer who  originally
wrote the  post got  a lot  of heat  about it,  and so  the guy  who did
release it came forward and later left IBM.

The  sad  part  is  that  none  of  the people involved ever intended to
violate IBM rules, nor cast aspersions, but paid the price for doing  so
anyway. THAT is how serious IBM  is about the rules. No, you  won't find
any  IBMers  acting  up  on  the  net  (at least with IBM's knowledge or
approval).

MIN>  Also have you seen
MIN>many people other than microsoft employees defending windows?

Min,  I've  not  only  seen  it.  I've  done it. And I'm not a Microsoft
employee.  I  think  you  have  the  mindset  that  being pro-OS/2 means
automatically being anti-Windows, and that's not necessarily true.  Both
systems have their drawbacks, and both systems have their merits.

----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
Deus Ex Machina                   | Internet:   bill.dehaan@rose.com
Software Consulting and Gator Pit | I'm a brain in a vat. What about you?
----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Most auto accidents involve people with driver's licenses
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3246 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1565 comp.sys.acorn:8023
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.acorn,comp.sys.mac.mis
Subject: Re: New MultiTOS PC (Atari Falcon)
Date: 25 Jul 92 20:28:52 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <DBH.92Jul23142918@wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk> dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes:
>In article <BJDBoB28w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>Believe it or not, some of us don't want a 3 button mouse.
>
>It doesn't take an expert in HCI to appreciate which part of the human
>body has the greatest amount of motor neuron processing power devoted
>to it - the hands.  Given that, Apple's (or was it Xerox's ?) and
>Mathew's choice of a one-button mouse seems most restrictive.  Like a
>one-button piano. :-)
>

Personally (and also having studied HCI) the single mouse button on the Apple
Mac both is and isn't a failing.

Is: Because to do certain things takes an awful lot of clicking and menu
    pulling which is FAR easier on a 3 button mouse.

Isn't: A single button mouse is less confusing.

Additional Points:

Certain interactions on the Mac are a REAL pain in the ass needing wierd
command, shift or option - mouse combinations. I'm always confusing them.

RISCOS makes several of these easier like the ability to open a directory
and close the parent (and vice versa) without resorting to mouse/key
option. Also click a menu item without the menu subsequently disappearing
(a pain if you want to set several things on the Mac).

My opinion, Apple really should have introduced a 3 button mouse with the
overhaul to System 7 and bundled it in with the bought package. The
current mouse/key combination is similar to the much quoted 
'Control-Meta-Coke Bottle Syndrome' of EMACS in so much as there are
many different combinations, even an experienced user screws it up.

The Xerox mouse was if my reading is correct a 3 button job with the
action of the buttons similar/the same as the way a mouse works under X.

Mice on PC's. The 2 button mouse seems to be the standard (another
Microsoft triumph !), spoiled mostly by Logitech and their 3 buttoner.

However, most PC/Window's app's only use one button as setting many options
is normally followed by clicking OK.. The right hand one is almost superfluous.
OS/2 2.0, can't remember, sorry.

Neil
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: hess@swt6.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Hauke Hess)
Subject: Re: Media coverage (Electronic Engineer Times)
Organization: University of Hamburg, FRG
Distribution: comp
Date: 21 Jul 92 08:19:14 GMT

pshuang@athena.mit.edu (Ping-Shun Huang) writes:

Yet another WOMBAT Chart:

> |                 WINDOWS NT COVERS ALL THE BASES
> |                 -------------------------------
> |         Primary features supported by different operating systems
> | 
> |                         Windows 3.1     OS/2 2.0        Windows NT
> |                         ===========     ========        ==========
> | Demand paging                                               X

Er, what do we call OS/2 Paging? I thought it was demand paging.

> | Fully 32-bit internally                                     X

NT isn`t yet fully 32Bit because of its backward compatibility to windows 3.x

> | 32-bit I/O drivers          X                               X

Yes, OS/2 has 32Bit IO drivers also!

> | Continue on fault           X                               X

Oh, what does Windows do on fault? It continues, fingers crossed. What
does NT does? We don`t know. What does OS/2 on fault? It closes the program
that caused it, but continues.

> | Separate address space                      X               X
> |     for apps.
> | Fully pre-emptive                           X               X
> |     multitasking
> | Symmetric multiprocessing                                   X
> |     support
> | C-2 level security                                          X
> | Available on non-X86                                        X

OS/2 will be available on non X86 this fall.

> | Extensible (POSIX...)                                       X
> | High-performance                                            X
> |     client and server

What is then LAN Server, the TCP/IP package and that stuff for OS/2?


This chart is just another proof that Microsoft lies!

Hauke
From: rodgers@engcon.marshall.ltv.com (KMRODGERS)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: CD ROM Drives (was Re: Windows quicksand)
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:19:27 GMT
Reply-To: rodgers@engcon.UUCP (KMRODGERS)
Organization: LTV MEG, Dallas, TX

In article <1992Jul14.212349.15478@adobe.com> byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer) writes:
>Jeff Markel writes
>> I'm a "professional"....I don't have a CD-ROM drive, nor do I know anyone
>> who does, other than a yupster who wanted an on-line
>> encyclopedia for his 2 year-old.
>It's the 90's, dude.
>CD-Rom is now the distribution method of choice in the
>workstation market.  NeXT, SGI, and Dec all distribute
>OS releases and documentation on CD-Rom.  Apple
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[rest deleted]

Although I'm a proponent of software distribution on CD-ROM, I believe that
its market acceptance is far less than Scott implies.  The indicated part
above shows this; yes, OS releases in the Unix world are usually on CD-ROM,
but very few third-party applications are.  In the DEC and Sun world, almost
all of the third-party apps come on TK-50 (DEC) or 1/4" cartridge (Sun).
Matlab, MATRIXx, Anvil, Unigraphics, PV-Wave, WordPerfect, etc. are all on
tape.  Vendors are moving to CD-ROM, but I venture a guess that it will take
at least three more years before the majority of workstation software will
be released on CD-ROM.

For home users, the main problem is still the price of the drives.  To get
a good-performance drive, you still have to shell out at least $400.  Unless
I'm a software professional who can't get along without stuff that's only out
on CD-ROM, I can't justify this kind of expense for my home system.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Rodgers  LTV Aerospace  rodgers%engcon@uunet.uu.net
I only speak (in tongues) for Brother Bob Tilton!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gt0040a@prism.gatech.EDU (Tom Sorensen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Wanted: 105 things that OS/2 can do that Windows can't
Keywords: OS/2, Windows, 105
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:24:43 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I've had a request to post the "105 things that OS/2 can do that Windows can't"
or the latest version thereof to another network. Request was made by 
OS/2 pundits, Windows pundits, and neutral parties (the moderator), so please
send. Thanks.
             Tom Sorensen
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Sorensen              gt0040a@prism.gatech.edu
"I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system,
and possibly program, of all time." - Bill Gates, November, 1987
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3437 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1695
From: jarober@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (DE Robertson james an 410-740-9172)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:46:51 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

soh3@quads.uchicago.edu (min-woong sohn) writes:

>Well, actually, I don't believe MS do not have guts to develop for os/2 even
>if it will make a lot of money for them, simply because MS
>developing for os/2 seems to confirm the notion that os/2 is a viable
>operating system.  This would be the last thing MS would do.  Then the
>huge success of os/2 that is becoming more and more obvious nowadays seems
>to signal the fate of MS in os/2 market

>Min

	Get a grip.  If this were tru, MS wouldn't be releasing MAC apps.  
MS down't release apps for OS/2 for the same reason that don't bother with
the Amiga market - at this point, it's a marginal application market.  It's
used by a few Fortune 500 companies for vertical apps, but NOT by the
mass market.  If and when it sells as a mass market OS, MS will start
developing for it.  

	You didn't see too many 3rd party apps for Windows until 3.0, did you ?
Same reason - no mass market appeal.  This software shops are all the same, 
really - they're all out for the bucks.

Jim Robertson
jarober@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu
From: martelli@cadlab.sublink.org (Alex Martelli)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Can IBM write code?
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:53:12 GMT
Organization: CAD.LAB S.p.A., Bologna, Italia

smsmith@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Smith) writes:

:ewanco@kalvin.enet.dec.com writes:
:
:>Think of the best program IBM wrote that you can think of.  Think hard.
:>PC-DOS doesn't count, because it's largely MS-DOS.  Tick, tock. Tick, 
:>tock. Tick, tock.
:
:Who wrote the OS's for IBM's mainframes?  Like AIX?  (I don't know, I'm
:just asking.)
:
:Don't forget about REXX. ;-)

REXX (the original interpreter for VM/CMS on 370's) is not a good example:
it wasn't, really, "written by IBM" - it was written by ONE person,
essentially, Mike Cowlishaw, sure with lots of inputs and suggestions
from all over, but HE took the architectural decision and designed stuff
and wrote and tested the code and docs.
And what a *jewel* of a program it was.  Taught me more about 370
assembler than any other thing I ever studied!  Yes, those were the days
when VM sources were easily available to read and study and tinker with,
and not only inside IBM either.
Mike, at the time, was employed by the IBM Scientific Center at Winchester,
UK.  A research organization, note, not one of the software shops.

So, using REXX to prove "IBM" can write great programs is just about like
using the Unix V7 kernel to prove "AT&T" can do so... more, because more
than one AT&Ter had its hands in that kernel, while Mike's pearl of great
price was all its own.
Sure, IBM and AT&T have/had great programmers working for their research
arms.  Unfortunately this doesn't prove that the programs will stay great
as they get passed to the "software-production proper" parts of the
organization: they might, they might not.

I recall when I was in IBM that I often was amazed at the wonderful quality
of many, many internally available programs, particularly for VM and for
DOS; mostly one-person, and often spare-time, projects, they would quite
generally outshine IBM's "official products".  At one time (1985?) a few
of those programs "leaked" outside officially, via the "Personally
Developed Software" marketing program (which unfortunately IBM marketing
later proved unable to keep alive, despite the great quality of the
programs in it).  And, you know what, while I don't often use PC's
nowadays, when I do and for some reason I can't make them look unixlike
(MKS toolkit, vi, and so), I still find myself choosing the tools that
came out so long ago in the PDSW line (the PE2 editor, etc).  And the
game I play most often is STILL PDSW's "Imperial Space Command"...
-- 
Email: martelli@cadlab.sublink.org                   Phone: ++39 (51) 6130360
CAD.LAB s.p.a., v. Ronzani 7/29, Casalecchio, Italia   Fax: ++39 (51) 6130294 
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: 30% of Windows Packages Used
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 22 Jul 1992 15:32 EST  

In article <rdippold.711688909@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron 
Dippold) writes...
>According to the "rumors" section of InfoWorld, internal MicroSoft
>research shows that only 30% of the 10 million copies of Windows 3.x
>out there are actually used.
> 
>It didn't say what this level of "use" is (I've seen several people
>who have it on their disks just in case they need it, and to play
>minesweeper), but it makes a good comparison number.

There are rumors that the extent of some people's use of Windows is limited 
only to WinGIF, Paintshop Pro, and something having to do with
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.

Not that I would know anyone like that ;-)

JD

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.apps
From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:32:37 GMT
Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE

In article <exujlg.113.0@exu.ericsson.se> exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier) writes:
> 
> I've checked it out (albeit a few days ago, and it is a new system) and it
> was, to be kind, anemic.  ftp-os2 (hobbes) has FAR more files, new patches,
> etc.  I'll check Watson again, just to make sure!

You might be expecting too much. The IBM FTP site is the authoritative source
for OS/2 updates and info. I can't see it being a shareware collection point.
They have probably set it up to use for distributing the upcoming CSD via
Internet.I am happy they even have the facility. Having called the IBM NCS BBS
a few times at $3.00/minute, I am much happier FTPing for free.
 
Comments?


Steve
-- 
Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  And the stars going round in 
**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  my head." R. L. S.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Subject: Edlin Angst ( Re: What's wrong with Windows (Re: MS grasping at ...
Reply-To: dab6@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas A. Bell)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:09:19 GMT


In a previous article, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) says:

>In article <1992Jul15.015738.15890@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Paul Wagland) writes:
>
>>Hey you forgot about their all time stroke of genius: edlin!
>>
>>I mean Microsoft are so proud of this baby they decided to include it
>>with Doze 5.0, even though they had that perfectly pathetic full screen
>>editor edit! (I know that some people actually like edit, but I don't
>>blame them for it).
>
>
>Eh? I LIKE Edlin. For editing short batch files theres nothing
>quicker.
>
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
>Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
>Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
>

This is a joke, no?

If it is not, perhaps Iskandar needs some form of professional help.

=)  =)  =)

I think is is safe to say that edlin is one of the most universally
despised editors.  Line editors are a pathetic throw back to when
there were no crt's. 

And nothing is quicker than 'copy con' for making short batch files.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: IBM vs. MS development kit prices?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 22 Jul 1992 16:59 EST  

In article <1992Jul17.174259.11255@microsoft.com>, gregde@microsoft.com 
(Greg Demichillie) writes...
>In article <1992Jul16.164819.49147@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu 
(STACY JOHN BEHRENS) writes:
>>In article <13497@mindlink.bc.ca>, Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert 
Salesas
>>) writes:
>>>> David Shepherd writes:
>>>> i doubt that th $69 NT kit contains a C compiler
>>>
>>>It does.  MSC/C++ 7.0.
>>
>>Ahh, no...  It isn't MSC/C++ 7.0.  It's more like a cut down version.  Sorta
>>similair to the diference between QuickBASIC and QBASIC, except better.
>>
>Where do you get this stuff?  The NT SDK *does* ship with a version of
>MSC/C++ 7.0, and no it's not some "cut-down" version.  Please tell
>me where you get your information.  Have you seen or used the SDK?

Hey, that's great.  Instead of paying $XXX retail or $YYY as an upgrade 
from someone else's C++, I can get MSC/C++ 7.0 for $69.  Hell, for that 
price, I won't even worry about loading the pre-beta version of NT, I'll 
just load 7.0.  Either that or just get the $69 SDK, put it on the shelf, 
and get the full blown NT when released for free (an estimated $500 to $999 
value).

What's wrong with this picture?

JD
From: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: the nt file system
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:29:44 EST
Reply-To: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In message <1992Jul21.205549.16885@njitgw.njit.edu>, David Charlap
writes:

DC>What will the NT file system offer that HPFS doesn't?  I believe I
DC>heard something about multi-user protection, but does that make sense
DC>for a non-networked computer?  And OS/2 supports file protection for
DC>LAN servers.

NT  is  designed  as  a  server  operating  system.  So  talking   about
non-networked computers  running NT  is not  an issue.  Any PC  which is
running NT and  is not on  a network can  simply run FAT  or HPFS as the
file system.

----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
Deus Ex Machina                   | Internet:   bill.dehaan@rose.com
Software Consulting and Gator Pit | I'm a brain in a vat. What about you?
----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Back when I was a boy, we carved our own ICs out of wood.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: CATHIE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: nt, an assessment
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:11:30 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

Stephen Dawson wrote:

  (stuff deleted)

  There will be a major OS/2 2.0 CSD in September, and a
  multi-processor version in November.

  (more stuff deleted)

Gordon, if this happens does it mean some of us can make our flight
reservations?  I really want lunch in Seattle.  Okay, I'll admit that I'm
optimistic.  (For those who don't know, there was a bet made and accepted
last March regarding this.)


Cathie Burke Dager   cathie@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu   415-926-2904
---> the opinions expressed are mine alone and not necessarily those
     of SLAC, Stanford University or the DOE
---> the above disclaimer is not mine alone and does not reflect my
     opinion or personality
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Can IBM write code?
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:53:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Keywords: IBM

In article <0t@byu.edu> earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes:
>
>And as far as the 'large' part that MS wrote, they wrote ~60% of the 1.0, but how much of
>that code is left in 2.0???  Knowledgable answers to THAT question might prevent bad, uninformed
>rummors from forming.
>

      You'll never get a reliable answer.  The answer would have to
come from IBM or from MS, neither of which is particularly objective
on this matter.
     BTW - please try to limit your lines to 75 or so characters.

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy