HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: Yet another sleepless night
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:52:22 GMT


>>in fact...they can say what they like about the male birth control
>>pill, but i wouldn't believe a man who said he was on one...or a man
>>who said he had a vasectomy...(unless he could show me a signed
>>certificate from the doctor AND the scar)

>I'm afraid you're a bit behind the times.  The Chinese recently announced a
>procedure that doesn't use a scalpel.  I don't know the details though.


"then he had better have TWO certificates ... one in chinese....and i
would LEAVE a scar....(i bite }:) )."  kitten grins wickedly....

--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 
"perhaps _any_ universe becomes real in proportion 
to the number of people who believe in it and spend time there." s. robinson

From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:26:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: joint post on discrimination, long!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans

In alt.callahans, SG.MML@isumvs.iastate.edu (M. Loughin) writes:

> This applies to the rest of my life, as well.  I had no reason
> to expect discrimination at work until a summer job during
> college, where I was sexually harassed.  Then in my first real
> job, I discovered that two men who had been in my graduating class
> and who had gotten jobs in the same position at the same place,
> whose grades were no better -- indeed, one had not yet graduated! --
> were receiving a sizeable amount higher salary than I was.  I
> experienced similar treatment again, in a later job.  Then there
> are the cases I described in an earlier posting.  So, you see,
> I was not predisposed towards thinking "men are out to get me."
> I learned the hard way that discrimination is alive and well
> in the '90's.

Yes it is.  And the glass ceiling seems to be quite real.
Discrimination is real and pernicious as far as I can tell.
I really do not know how to combat it.  Many people are
experiencing backlash against AA.

Descrimination and racism must end, but I have no idea at all
how to do it.

doug
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Subject: Re: The Nightstalker makes an observation
Reply-To: dgil@IPSAINT.IPSA.REUTER.COM (Gillett, David)
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:01:58 GMT


-----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------
no. 6424096 filed 22.54.52  thu 23 jul 1992
from dgil
to   locun
subj Re: The Nightstalker makes an observation
ref  6410427

     Genesis states, baldly, that God created *all* of the varieties of plants,
more or less simultaneously in one "day".  Later, he created *all* of the
varieties of animals, more or less simultaneously in another "day".  Humans, he
created on a third, even later, "day" -- although sometime after that he
created Eve from Adam's rib.
     The most basic evidence we have for evolution is fossil remains.  What we
see is that (a) there have been species of plants and animals which lived in
the past but are no longer alive, and (b) there are species of animals and
plants alive today which have not been around for very long -- by comparison to
others.
     Evolution is the most accepted theory to *explain* this.  Genesis clearly
contradicts it if you attempt to treat the creation story even remotely
literally.  If Genesis were "accurate", there could be no animal species, past
or present, older than the newest plant species, or newer than the first
humans -- and what happened to the woman (women?) who were created before Eve?

     Sure, you can say that God is responsible for all Life, and that men and
women are equal in dignity, and I can't contradict either statement.  But you
get there by throwing out (or rationalizing away) so much of Genesis that
there's no obvious reason to stop at that point -- it's even easier to dismiss
the whole thing as "mythology", relevant to Culture but not to Natural
Philosophy.
                                      Mentor the Sage
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: Responsibilities of Artists (was Re: Pornography and Playboy)
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:57:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.183656.17784@midway.uchicago.edu>, mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes:
>>>It's very dependent on context.  For
>>>a crude example, if one's main character is a pre-Civil War
>>>Southerner, and he launches into a defense of slavery on the basis of
>>>black inferiority, that's one thing.  It's another thing, though, if
>>>all the black characters in the tale _are_ clearly mentally inferior,
>>
>>You're right.  The former isn't very effective at giving the reader an
>>understanding of the mindset of some southernors, while the latter is.
>
>	"No it isn't.  At best, it conveys that the Southerner's
>mindset _would_ have been right if the conditions _were_ true.  What
>has that to do with real Southerners in our real history?  Or real
>prejudice anywhere?  If the tale were "what would be appropriate in
>the presence of a truly inferior race" (as Harry Turtledove's "Sim"
>stories have addressed) that would be one thing.  But what insight
>does this give about slaveowners who own human slaves?  Remember, in
>the latter story, it's the background, not the characterization, which
>has been specified.  And the background is untrue, and hence gives a
>false picture of what slaveowners were like, since it purports to take
>place in a "realistic" Old South (basic premise of historical fiction,
>that the history is as accurate as the author was able to make it, not
>that any discrepancies can be chalked up to alternate history and
>biology), and it doesn't."

I suppose, then, that you think that the novel
_One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo's_Nest_ should've been written from a different point
of view?  After all, quite a bit of what's described in parts of the novel
never really happened even in the plot of the novel.  It's just that the
character in question perceived them as happening that way.

>>The former conveys, at best, the mindset of a Yankee who's got some insight
>>into the mindset of some southernors.  The latter, if done well, gives the
>>reader a second-hand rather than a third-hand experience.
>
>	"How?  No one ever lived in a world with _actually_
>universally inferior blacks.

But some Southernors lived in a world of PERCEIVED inferior blacks.  If the
object of the work is to portray events exactly as they happened, then it's not
a work of art; it's simply history.  If the object of the work is to give us
some insight into the attitudes of some southernors, then their world-view must
be presented, not some Yankee's perception of their world-view.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: writing Re: The Nightstalker makes an observation
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:40:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.161020.27585@midway.uchicago.edu>, mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer) writes:
>	"My understanding is that saying `we know' the aforementioned
>things is ascribing a bit more certainty to the computer methods
>referred to than is really appropriate.  Even leaving aside the
>Biblical questions, I'm _certain_ that the claim that Shakespeare was
>written by multiple authors is not free of controversy or even
>generally accepted-- at most, it's a theory accepted by a minority of
>scholars.

Actually, textual analysis CAN be a very powerful tool.  However, some authors
have been known to write in a variety of styles.  If the evidence regarding
Shakespeare is simply that there were a number of different styles and that
choice of words varied substantially, I'd like to see what happens when the
same program is turned loose on, say, John Brunner or Poul Anderson.  If the
program matched up various parts of the ouevre with other contemporary writers,
there's still the possibility that Shakespeare was imitating them, a
not-uncommon phenomenon (common enough that, for example, someone came up with
the term "pastiche" to describe it).

>I've seen some discussion of programs like the ones
>described, and the accuracy of the models used was pretty hotly
>debated at last check.  I haven't studied the matter in detail, but
>the first thing I'd want to know is how well these programs do in
>distinguishing the writing styles of current authors, particularly
>authors who vary their styles or attempt to emulate others (since
>Shakespeare very likely varied his own in response to the source
>material he was using).

My point exactly.

>I'd also want to know what basis they'd use
>for determining the gender of an author-- particularly in a culture
>where the compilation in question forms a major part of the source
>material for determining _anything_ about writing styles.

Ditto.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Maybe I'm just depressed.
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:19:39 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


    The wind sings through the trees in the meadow, leaves
    rustle, branches creak.  High up in one of those trees,
    Nathan.  The breezes bring conversations from the Meadow
    and from inside the Bar to his solitary perch.  Mostly
    his eyes are closed, every once in a while, a sigh is
    heard.  He came up here to escape from RL as well as
    from Callahan's.

    Sometimes, it feels like he doesn't belong here.  He   .
    But most of the discussions he didn't have the knowledge
    of subject matter to join in, or his opinion had been
    stated by someone else.  Dispite all the good posts,
    he has been killing far more than he reads.

    And Nathan is seriously thinking about leaving the Place.
    various discussions that have passed through Callahan's
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer)
Subject: Re: [Group Hug] (was  Re: More of Nathan being Depressed.)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:22:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.202652.18368@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> rkoch@lonestar.utsa.edu (Ruth M. Koch) writes:
>Quoting kitten:
>>
>>kitten hugs john...and nathan too...
>
>  <hug> for kitten , and a <hug> for John.
>
>  Nathan.


     Grin. . . you forgot the bigger hug. . . the one to grab us all in, if 
you're up to it. . . Kitten?  You wanna sandwich nathan for the huge group
hug sure to follow?  Keep SOME space in your arms. . . so we can breathe?

                                                 John
"Only if you're up to it. . . but I could use it today."

-- 
"Love is cool; I mean, like, really cool.  Like, the coolest thing in
the universe, where, like, people open up inside and show the world how
they feel, and they ain't afraid someone's gonna laugh because they, like,
love themselves already!"  --Personality 42, a generic 60's philosopher 
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: telsor@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Robert Morieson)
Subject: Re: Unlurking: PIZZA!!
Organization: Monash General Access UNIX System
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:27:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.073932.937@news.Hawaii.Edu> saiki@mpg.phys.hawaii.edu (Its just me..) writes:
>Pizza Boy writes:
>
>>Pizza Boy squints at a ticket and shouts out, "Okay, I got a guava and 
>>mushroom medium here!  Who's got the guava and mushie medium?"
>
>Spacey looks around...noone answers.  She pays the man clad in the
>"Escher Pizza" hat with a odd-looking bill...[y'know the one with the geese! 
>:) ]  
>
>"I LOVE guava juice and drink it quite often...hmm, don't
>drink pineapple juice but still like 'em in my pizza...Hey!  That's
>a guava juice with a mushroom pizza..."  <wink>  --twisted that order
>there a bit....
>
>In Spacey's hands are pepperonis, black olives, and pineapples.  She 
>sprinkles them next to the fresh mushrooms.  Gleefully rubbing her
>hands she takes the pizza and brings it to her plate to cut and eat
>with a fork and knife, that materializes.  She takes the first bite 
>and blissfully  "mmm's."  

But..Spacey, It's not a pizza without anchovies.

>She adds, "You know, I really don't like pizza all that much but
>I just had that craving..." She picks up her glass of guava juice
>and gulps the delicious sweet nectar with a passion-fruit.
>
>Spacey looks around and invites all with a craving for pizza..heck
><poof> a bunch of ingredients appear.  Sausages, onions, Canadian
>bacon, peppers. etc appear in clear covered cannisters.
>  
>"I suppose you can add your own stuff..."

Great, 1 'Hot and Hairy' coming up, Hot salami, peppers, cabanosi,
ANCHOVIES, oysters, olives, and anything else thats handy.

Telsor

-- 
God is real, unless declared integer.
Telsor@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
Robert Morieson
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: More of Nathan being Depressed. (feel free to skip this)
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:23:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.051302.17951@crash.cts.com>, jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin) writes:
>	"Marie is right, Nathan," Grant says.  "Just because you don't
>know shitloads of math doesn't mean you're stupid.  I have a biology
>degree, I can't do calculus worth a damn.  Doesn't mean I'm dumb,
>nosireebob!

StM asks (facetiously, and smiling as he says it) "Does that mean that the
attitude of most Caltech students toward biology majors is justified?"  Looking 
more serious, he says, "Calculus isn't really that hard.  I suspect you had
professors who didn't know what they were doing.  If you'd like a tutor to help
you get a better understanding of calculus, I'll be glad to help, and at my
standard rates (including the Callahanian discount:  Normal rates: $20/hr. 
$0/hr if the student is a Callahanian).  I've got what's pretty much an
intuitive undestanding (as well as the formal understanding) of up to what
would, at most colleges, be a third-year calculus course (i.e., I can tell you
not only what the formalism says, but what it means).  I've tutored quite a few
people, all with pretty good success, and TAed economics (What?  You don't see
how economics requires calculus?  Clearly you've never taken an economics
course at Caltech 1/4 :-)).

>	"Let me put it this way.  You're talking to a bunch of science
>geeks, uh, students and someone says:
>
>'No problem.  All you have to do is feed the energy through the matter
>transducer, recalibrate the delta-Q of the mainframe directional chips
>to take care of any parabolic inertial forces, and then simply maintain
>the field strength. Easy!'
>
>	"Sounds like science, doesn't it?  Well, it's bullshit, and
>so is your argument.  Trust me, friend, you are NOT stupid or unintelligent.
>You just have different interests and opinions.  Let's hear some of those,
>huh?"

"Well, let's see now.  Transducer:  Something that converts a physical
phenomenon to an electronic signal and vice-versa.  AHA!  We're talking about a
transporter, a la Star Trek!  Delta Q.  Oh, we've redesigned a resonant circuit
so it has a smaller (or larger) resistive component, right?  Mainframe.  Hmm,
nobody uses those anymore, except to oversee a disk farm.  Directional chips? 
Afraid you've lost me there, Grant.  Seriously, though, those scientific
discussions I've seen here generally involved people who DID know what they were
taliking about.  Believe me, if I'd seen someone just using buzzwords, I'd've
spoken up right quick (DM, do you REALLY call your guide stars fubar stars?  It
seems appropriate, but just too good to be true!).
From: rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley)
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Subject: Re: lemacs is grabbing window focus when it isn't supposed to
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:06:32 GMT
	<9207281606.AA06384@scylla.lucid>
Organization: Human Communication Research Center
In-reply-to: devin%scylla@lucid.com's message of 28 Jul 92 16:06:59 GMT


If one was being argumentitive it is possible to interpret the ICCCM
as meaning that a `locally active focus model' client is only
supposed to throw the focus around between windows within one top
level shell. 

On the other hand the lemacs behaviour seems reasonable since it
allows the focus to be thrown around in a controled way from the
keyboard. Sometimes the details are a little odd -- the focus
shouldn't shift as a side effect of anything and the minibuffer
handling can really screw things up.

Twm-based window managers can't cope with lemacs since they don't pay
attension to focus changes by other clients. I changed tvtwm to do the
Right Thing and it isn't hideously difficult. I'm not sure if the
patches would qapply to a straight twm.

No matter what, though, it breaks the rule that the mouse and the
keyboard focus move together. This could be fixed if there was some
way of warping the mouse to follow the focus which didn't cause half a
million enter and leave events on the way. 

--
rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk				_O_
						 |<
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:35:03 PDT
From: eb%watergate@lucid.com (Eric Benson)
Subject: Re: set-mouse-position
Reply-To: eb@lucid.com
I can't reproduce any of these problems in our latest development
lemacs on a Sun-4.  That doesn't mean there might not be a bug in
there somewhere, but it's going to make it difficult to find...
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 09:06:59 PDT
From: devin%scylla@lucid.com (Matthieu Devin)
Subject: Re: lemacs is grabbing window focus when it isn't supposed to
References: <199207280832.AA14324@bagheera.inria.fr>
I have fought further along than anyone who has sent me mail, and
actually gotten it to dump. However there is a bit of strangeness in
term.c. First at the top of term_init I had to comment out the lines

if (status == 0)
	fatal(...

I could not figure out what tgetent was being called, as it was not
the one in termcap.c (since I deleted termcap.o, recompiled and it did
not recompile and no unfound symbol erros were generated). Then I
realized that near the end, it call itself as term_init("invisible"),
so we recursed forever. I commented out this as well, and compiled yet
again. When I ran it, it started to load, but then failed on an IOT
trap. I would love any ideas anyone may have.


Signature Under Construction
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:36:07 PDT
X-Windows: The joke that kills.
From: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@lucid.com>
Subject: Re: Zmacs Regions.
References: <weOzycW__5g84=gZ1K@cs.city.ac.uk>
In message <weOzycW__5g84=gZ1K@cs.city.ac.uk> Andy Whitcroft wrote:
>
> In some popup-menu code I wish to know if the zmacs region is active in
> order to allow or disallow a memu entry.  There seems to be no sensible
> variable/function to provide this information.  The info.el menu uses
> the x-selection-owner-p function, which seesm incorrect.  Looking at the
> code for marker etc they use zmacs_active_region_p, should this not be
> bound up as zmacs-regions is, or perhaps made available as a function
> zmacs-active-region-p?

You're probably right that there should be a cleaner way of determining this.

x-selection-owner-p is correct when running under X, since when the Zmacs
region is active, it is also the X selection.  x-selection-owner-p will also
be true if zmacs-regions is nil, but the user has highlighted some text with
the mouse.

(and zmacs-regions (mark)) should also do what you want.

	-- Jamie
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Subject: Please remove me!
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:54:57 +0200
From: Petter Bengtsson <petter%lulea.trab.se@lucid.com>
Please remove me from this mailing list.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Petter Bengtsson,  Telia Research AB,  Aurorum 6,  S-951 75 Lulea,  Sweden  |
| Email: petter@lulea.trab.se   Voice: (+46) 920 75476   Fax: (+46) 920 75490 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
>  From: "Jeffrey (J.D.) Sparkes" <jsparkes%x400gate.bnr.ca@lucid.com>
>  
>  Wouldn't it be neat if you could surround extents with raised or
>  sunken borders so that they look kinda like motif buttons?  Since it's
>  already done for the menus, it shouldn't be *too* hard, right? :-)
>  --
>  Jeff Sparkes
>  jsparkes@bnr.ca    Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

No, it wouldn't be "neat" for *anything* to look, feel or smell more
like drainbrammaged mo-effing-tif or anything else from IBM's captive
Open Sore Fundament in any way.  Yuck.

------
Thanks, I feel better now.  If you feel a strong need to flame me, try
to exercise better self control than I and avoid burning everybody's
bandwidth...

* All imaginable disclaimers go here;  nobody is responsible for
  or agrees with anything *

-Jeff Moore (jbm@sbi.com)
From: colas@bagheera.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo)
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Subject: Re: lemacs is grabbing window focus when it isn't supposed to
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:40:55 GMT
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

In article <9207281606.AA06384@scylla.lucid>, devin%scylla@lucid.com (Matthieu
Devin) writes:
|> Colas is wondering why Emacs takes the focus.  This is necessary to
|> implement
|> First, what the ICCCM says (in my own words):
...
|> Colas what do you think?  

I just checked, you are right, I was wrong.
(technical details: I was thinking that a WM_TAKE_FOCUS from wm->client with
timestamp being CurrentTime (0), which IS NOT allowed in the ICCCM)

|> Can gwm do the right thing?

Of course, no question about it. I was just fooled because other WMs
exhibited the same behavior...

-- 
Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research Koala proj. Wool&Gwm Architect
Pho:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.93 - 06902 Sophia Antipolis, FRANCE.
From: colas@bagheera.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo)
Newsgroups: alt.lucid-emacs.bug
Subject: Re: lemacs is grabbing window focus when it isn't supposed to
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:47:39 GMT
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

In article <RJC.92Jul29140632@daiches.cogsci.ed.ac.uk>, rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
(Richard Caley) writes:
|> No matter what, though, it breaks the rule that the mouse and the
|> keyboard focus move together. 

this is NOT a rule. only one policy, and most windowing systems in the world
(Windows, mac, motif) implement the other click-to-type policy (even if you can
customize mwm to be real-estate, the Motif styleguide stil mandates
click-to-type I think..)

|>This could be fixed if there was some
|> way of warping the mouse to follow the focus which didn't cause half a
|> million enter and leave events on the way. 

Now, warping the mouse cursor is definitively a bad idea...

-- 
Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research Koala proj. Wool&Gwm Architect
Pho:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.93 - 06902 Sophia Antipolis, FRANCE.