HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: THE CLINTON CABINET
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:40:26 GMT

walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov (Cybernetic Samurai) writes:

>Hmm, economists count?  Sorry I do not think so. IMHO.  Again, the
>programatic actions, philosophy, and comprehensive nature of it are a
>sham.  They contradict themselves, oveer and over.


Okay, what are you going to replace economic theory with?
Intuition?
Rolls of a dice?
Whether your bunions hurt in the morning?

Saying a theory or a methodology is not complete and totally accurate
is fine, but declaring it a sham for having contradictions, when you
have nothing to replace it with, is just being argumentative.

Quantum mechanics has its contradictions, but it's hardly a sham.

I know, you want to say that non-economists know more about the
economy than haughty economists do.  My, what a populist you are.

By the way, if our government had improved our data-collection
methods over the last 12 years, rather than gutting the budgets
for these areas, we might be able to more accurately analyze
the economy.  Nope, Reagan never needed libraries nor statistics.

"Facts are dangerous things" - Ronald Reagan
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Columbus vs Indians (was Re: PC lives)
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:05:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
: Keywords: 
: 
: In article <1701@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson) writes:
: ]
: ]Well, nobody celebrates Cortez' birthday.  I agree that it`s silly
: ]to blame the whole thing on Columbus, but he was a rather nasty
: ]fellow from all accounts, and he was accorded status as the chief
: ]hero for many years.  Just a bit of pendulum swing, I guess.
: 
: No, it is part of a concerted effort to destroy american
: culture by deconstructing it - ie, reinterpreting every cultural value
: and cultural myth in a way that is antithetical to the culture. Every
: society has its heroes and its heroic myths. Today, however, we see almost
: every value and hero or heorine that Americans have held dear reviled or 
: attacked or deconstructed. At the same time we have strident cries
: to create new "politically correct" heroes - my state of Arizona was
: vilified and boycotted because we didn't pay proper homage to the
: new, politically correct hero - Martin Luther King. We see groups in
: LA treating Rodney King as a hero! They myth of Chief Seattle has
: arisen (a total fabrication). As long as the hero(inne) is politically correct
: (ie, AT LEAST not white or not male), we are pressured to recognize
: him/her. If the cultural icon did anything that offends today's
: sensibilities, we are expected to vilify him.
: 
: There is no reason whatsoever to revile Columbus. The guy is long dead.
: The attacks on Columbus are really attacks on our "evil" society
: for having destroyed some ideal "native american" society 500 years ago.
: What foolishness!
: 
: While historians may continually debate and analyze all of these
: issues, it becomes polemical when it reaches the level of public debate
: and demonstrations. It becomes politically correct when the Smithsonian
: Institution feels that it cannot put on a Columbus exhibit without
: pointing out everything wrong with the Spanish conquest and everything
: good about native American culture.
: 
: This Orwellian attempt at thought control is (hopefully) doomed to failure,
: as the forces of reaction rise to combat it. Unfortunately, those forces
: often mirror the PC forces in their intolerance and their willingness to
: use offensive tactics. PC folks out there... look at the extreme religious
: right - you are looking in a mirror!
: -- 
: John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
: john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu      

Aw, c'mon- I don't like smug, arrogant leftists anymore than I do
smug, arrogant rightists; but isn't your conspiracy theory a bit
much?  

Bill   
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19075 alt.rush-limbaugh:12232 alt.president.clinton:1258
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: PC lives
Date: 24 Dec 92 01:11:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: -

In article <BznJMK.Hqs@ns1.nodak.edu>, green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes:
> The discussion about PC has a few uninformed that believe PC doesn't
> exist.  So how do you explain Clinton ONLY considering a woman for EPA
> director?  How do you explain Clinton ONLY considering Donna Shalala for
> her job?  (Other than Donna being a longtime, close friend of Hillary's.)
> How do you explain the mock trial of Christopher Columbus in Minneapolis?
> How do you explain the furor over the MLK holiday, when MLK doesn't really
> rate a holiday?  (He's the only, single person with his own holiday, Jefferson,
> Lincoln, Washington, etc. either don't have holiday's or share them.  I don't
> deny the good MLK did, but to single him out is, in effect, saying he is the
> greatest American that has ever lived.)
> 
> PC is alive and well, don't believe otherwise.

Well, I'll doubt you'll get many arguements with your post.  It's hard
to argue with something that doesn't make much sense.  You list a
whole bunch of different events that have absolutely no connection
other than you disagree with them and have labeled them PC.  Just
because you don't like Clinton's selections or holidays that are
observed in some places hardly has anything to do with a conspritorial
political correctness being enforced by any one group of people.  

Jim
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Columbus vs Indians (was Re: PC lives)
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:51:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


Actually, Nathan, I agree with your (apparent) point that holding
a "mock trial" of a man who's been dead half a millenium, in order
to accuse him of everything that's gone wrong since his death, is
certainly silly and probably counter-productive.  I argued with
the original poster mostly because I dislike the current tendency
among certain people on the right to dismiss anything they happen
to disagree with as "politically correct".  The mock trial was 
probably, as I stated early, intended as a corrective to reflexive
Columbus hagiography; misguided, probably, but most likely not
part of some sinister conspiracy to undermine Our Way of Life.

Bill
From: sfreedkin@igc.apc.org (Steve Freedkin)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Subject: INTERIOR SEC'Y; FAX CLINTON *TODAY*
Date: 24 Dec 92 08:58:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1588800068:000:2696
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sfreedkin    Dec 24 00:58:00 1992


From: Steve Freedkin <sfreedkin>
Subject: INTERIOR SEC'Y; FAX CLINTON *TODAY*!

I HAVE SENT THE FOLLOWING BY FAX TO CLINTON TRANSITION TEAM AND URGE OTHERS
WHO AGREE WITH ME TO DO THE SAME *TODAY* BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
FAX NUMBERS: 501-399-7195; 501-399-7194
-----------------------------------------------------------------
President-Elect Bill Clinton
Office of the President-Elect
Little Rock, AR  72201
FAX: (501) 399-7195

RE: INTERIOR SECRETARY APPOINTMENT


Mr. President:

I am writing to fervently urge the selection of Bruce Babbott as Secretary
of the Interior.

I am very sensitive to issues of racial and gender justice, and your pledge
to appoint a cabinet that looks more like America was and remains very
important to me.  I serve on the Ethnic Diversity Task Force and the Santa
Barbara Coalition (for racial justice) here, and was Executive Director of
the Peace Resource Center of Santa Barbara until Nov. 1. I also have been
active in the Clinton-Gore Electronic Mail network.

I also am very concerned about the environment.  I serve on the Steering
Committee of the Santa Barbara Earth Day Committee.  I have been involved
in both environmental issues and racial and gender justice since my
elementary-school days.  (I'm 37.)

I believe the Interior Department requires a strong, committed, credible,
and nationally recognized environmentalist at its helm.  Few could match
this description better than Bruce Babbott (unless, of course, Al Gore was
willing to take two White-House jobs ...).   You have many opportunities to
appoint women and non-white people to visible, important leadership positions.
In addition to the remaining Cabinet positions, one that comes to mind is
State Department spokesperson.  The deputy Interior Secretary (and other
deputy secretaries) could also take more visible public roles.

However, as Al Gore has clearly written and said, the environment is at a
critical juncture, and without the strongest possible leadership at both
EPA (I applaud your choice there) *and* Interior, you will not be able to
accomplish what is needed.  I believe it is *essential* to have Gov. Babbott
heading the Department of the Interior at this moment in history.

Congratulations on your successful transition work so far.  I look forward
to great accomplishments from the Clinton Administration, and stand ready
to help as I can.  Happy new year -- come visit Santa Barbara again soon!

Sincerely,

Steve Freedkin
(formerly Executive Director, Peace Resource Center of Santa Barbara)
P.O. Box 91817
Santa Barbara, CA  93190-1817
e-mail: sfreedkin@igc.apc.org
76200,3421@compuserve.com
tel. (805) 682-9986
fax: Call me and ask me to set up the fax machine.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19040 alt.rush-limbaugh:12159 alt.president.clinton:1241
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: PC lives
Date: 22 Dec 1992 20:53:37 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec22.201041.6710@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>In article <BznJMK.Hqs@ns1.nodak.edu> green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes:
>>The discussion about PC has a few uninformed that believe PC doesn't
>>exist.
>
>	PC does exist -- on both the Left and the Right.

I'm sorry.  You're not allowed to use this term in this context.  PC has been
reserved to denote the IBM personal computers and other compatible computers.

Please refrain from using PC.  Instead, use PA (Politically Appropriate,
Politically Astute, Publically Acceptable).
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.guns,soc.history
From: briand@anasazi.com (Brian Douglass)
Subject: Re: Somalia and Republican Utopia
Organization: Anasazi Inc Phx Az USA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:12:11 GMT

In article <92354.105355ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET> <ISSCCK@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
>
><Article (by Robert Hirschfield) copied from "USA Today," Wednesday 16, 1992>
>              <Robert is a well-known TV producer and writer.>
>
>THE'VE MET THE GOAL OF GETTING "GOVERNMENT OFF THE BACKS OF PEOPLE."
>
>     Somalia just may represent the end result of right-wing politics in this
>country.

And the Former USSR countries plus most of Eastern Europe just may represent 
the end result of left-wing politics in this country.  

Take your pick, starving with a gun or starving out a gun.

Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19153 alt.rush-limbaugh:12345 alt.president.clinton:1276
From: Steve Freedkin <sfreedkin@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:13 PST
Subject: Re: INTERIOR SEC'Y; FAX CLINT
Nf-ID: #R:1789.42.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp:-784668115:cdp:1588800074:000:195
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sfreedkin    Dec 27 01:13:00 1992


Well, actually Clinton selected Bruce Babbitt, not Bruce Babbott.  My
error!  (If you can respond to messages without re-quoting the entire thing,
that will help those of us paying by the hour.)

Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19064 alt.rush-limbaugh:12213 alt.president.clinton:1253
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: PC lives
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:22:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>In article <BznJMK.Hqs@ns1.nodak.edu> green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes:
>>The discussion about PC has a few uninformed that believe PC doesn't
>>exist.

>	PC does exist -- on both the Left and the Right.

>So how do you explain Clinton ONLY considering a woman for EPA
>>director?

>	Did you wiretap his office(s) and find out what went on?

>How do you explain Clinton ONLY considering Donna Shalala for
>>her job?  (Other than Donna being a longtime, close friend of Hillary's.)

>	Maybe she's well qualified, for all we know.

>	In these two cases, would only Phyllis Schlafly make you happy?

>>How do you explain the mock trial of Christopher Columbus in Minneapolis?

>	One may ask whether or not it was fair, but what would _you_
>prefer? The attitude that the only good Indian is a dead Indian?

>>How do you explain the furor over the MLK holiday, when MLK doesn't really
>>rate a holiday?  (He's the only, single person with his own holiday, Jefferson,
>>Lincoln, Washington, etc. either don't have holiday's or share them.  I don't
>>deny the good MLK did, but to single him out is, in effect, saying he is the
>>greatest American that has ever lived.)

>	Who would _you_ prefer to honor? The founder(s) of the Ku Klux Klan?

>>PC is alive and well, don't believe otherwise.

>	Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

>	Nothing I can't stand more than whining from someone who's
>belligerently aggressive.


And you're a passive retentive?  Seems like you gave this guy's
posting as negative an interpretation as you could have.
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa,alt.president.clinton
From: Bryan J. Blumberg <bjb@macsch.com>
Subject: Re: Year of the woman
X-Xxdate: Wed, 23 Dec 92 10:29:10 GMT
Organization: Systems Integration Branch
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 18:30:05 GMT

In article <Bzp13q.Dut@ns1.nodak.edu> Brad Green, green@plains.NoDak.edu
writes:
>Yep, this was the year of the woman, all right.  Just goes to show women
>can do it better than men:
>
>Diane Finstein fined $190,000 by the Election Commission for screwing up
>her election figures in her ill-fated attemp to become California
>Governor.

Yep, she did do it better.  Her opponent, Pete Wilson, who
actually won the election was only fined $100,000 for screwing
up on *his* election figures.

========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19089 alt.rush-limbaugh:12254 alt.president.clinton:1262
From: cd651@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wally L. Blume)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Clint's appointments
Date: 24 Dec 1992 21:42:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cd651@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wally L. Blume)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, a74k110@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Peterson) says:

>In article <BzqsBM.CGs@ns1.nodak.edu>, green@plains.NoDak.edu (Brad Green) writes...
>>A Feminist was babbling about him needing more women than the past three
>>administrations, which totaled three.  Well, we have Lynn Martin as
>>Secretary of Labor, Barbara Franklin as Secretary of Commerce, and Carla
>>Hills as Trade Rep.  That's three women in top level positions already.
>>Blacks? UN Ambassador.  Hispanics?  Manual Lujan, Secretary of Interior.
>>Can someone explain how Slick's Cabinet is going to be more diverse than
>>Bush's?
>
>The feminist was complaining about CABINET positions, Carla Hills
>and the UN ambassador aren't in the cabinet.  First of all, Manny Lujan

 At least TRY to get informed about the issues you are discussing.
Mr. Clinton has decided to make UN ambasador a cabinet level position.
After reading this far down in your post it became clear you didn't
know what you were talking about. (1 sentence and you blew it). Don't
you read the paper?
-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   /   / __  /  /     |         Wally Blume         | Earth:
  /   / _ / /  / /_/  |      Internet address:      |    Mostly harmless.     
 /_/_/ /_/ /  / __/   | cd651@cleveland.freenet.edu |-HH Guide to the Galaxy
From: Steve Freedkin <sfreedkin@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:12 PST
Subject: Re: INTERIOR SEC'Y; FAX CLINTON *TODAY*
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1588800068:cdp:1588800073:000:133
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sfreedkin    Dec 27 01:12:00 1992


(Or, in my case, Happy Hanukkah ...)
BTW, I misspelled the name.  It's Bruce Babbitt with an "i," not an "o."
Happy new year to you!

Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: pkbockus@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Keith Bockus)
Subject: Re: Macroeconomics 101
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:09:14 GMT

Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:

>When was the last time this country had a start-up auto manufacturer
>which was not run by the Big 3? The Big 3 and the government have colluded
>for decades to squash any attempt at competition from new US auto
>firms. The situation is not quite so bad in the computer industry, but it
>is getting worse. 

This is, IMHO, the nature of gov't intervention in the economy; 
to promote a special interest at the expense of American
consumers, each of whom loses too little individually too
complain about it.  In sum, however, the small losses from
agricultural policies raising the price of food, anti-dumping
measures raising the price of textiles, etc. add up to major
government sponsored costs for Americans.

I'm a free-market kind of fellow, and believe that this situation 
will persist until American voters conclude that government intervention
is, per se, illegitimate.  Clearly special interests ran riot
during the 80's, when the notionally free-market Republicans
held the White House, and they are clearly primed for action
now that the Democrats hold both the executive and legislative
branches.  (e.g. John Sculley primping for a pork-fest).
I'm concerned that, since "gov't sponsored investment" and
"planning" are now in relative favor, the barriers to 
anti-competitive gov't behavior are lower.

Question to Clinton-lovers:  Why will he be different?
How has the *process* changed to make gov't intervention
less of a license to steal?

 
 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton
From: dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews)
Subject: Responses to posts
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:30:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho

  I lost my newsfeed about a month ago.  When i finally got it back i discover
that the exact same topics are being discussed, or so it would seem.  Consider
editing the subject line if your response does not fit w/in its boundaries.
Consider coming up w/ something new to talk about.  Consider that some
discussions, having been repeated ad nauseum, might best be left to e-mail.

  I'm not so new to newsgroups that this is a new phenomena to me, it's just
very tiresome.

  Now, does anyone have a list of Clinton's advisors?  How about their back-
grounds?  Let's stick to facts, for starters.
From: n3884@cray.com (Pete Palmer)
Subject: Re: Macroeconomics 101
Reply-To: n3884@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:58:53 CST

In article 5869@aio.jsc.nasa.gov, lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov (Dr. Norman J. LaFave) writes:
 c.) most of us blame Bush and Reagan
>for
>job training and creation
>
>The only statements we have heard from them on these issues
>have been vacuous lip service.
>
>Dr. Norman J. LaFave


I often hear a lot about the government needing to provide job training.
I'm not flaming here, but I would like to know sort of training we are
speaking of.  Are there examples, well documented ones, of government
training programs that have worked??  Where, what, and in which industries?
Or, does this so-often-used term relate to grant and loan programs?



--------------------------------------------------
Pete Palmer (n3884@cray.com)
--------------------------------------------------

Anyone who has considerably meditated on man, by profession or vocation,
is led to feel nostalgia for the primates.  -Camus

Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19323 alt.rush-limbaugh:12597 alt.president.clinton:1310
From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: PC lives
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:16:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <bill.725582383@castor> bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
>nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes:
>
>>>Mock trial of Christopher Columbus?  Well, that certainly has a 
>>>PC ring to it.  Did the "trial" do some harm that you know of?
>
>>    To the extent that it is an attempt to revise history, I believe that 
>>it does a disservice to anyone who buys into the revised version of history.
>
>Personally, I think it's a nice idea.  As we become more intelligent
>human beings and societies (hopefully), we should continually re-examine
>our historical figures and historical situations to glean newly
>obvious insights.  

Ahah!  There you poke at the bone of contention.  The mock trial did 
not attempt to re-examine our historical figures, the examination had 
already taken place, and the defendent was found guilty!

>History is continuously revised with each piece
>of new evidence we discover, and with our improved ability to detect
>ramifications of actions in the past.  

Hopefully with facts, not pc allegations.

>Thirty years ago, no one had
>an inkling that CFC's might damage the atmosphere, and "judging" them
>as if they did is certainly meaningless.  

Scientists are still not as convinced as environmental-wacos wish they were.

>On the other hand, if 
>Columbus had brought back a disease that wiped out Europe, he would
>certainly not be regarded as a hero, despite the heroic nature of
>his voyage, and there's certainly nothing wrong with recognizing
>that the millions of natives affected by Columbus' arrival place
>an entirely different valuation on it than does the Eurocentric
>viewpoint.  

So?

>History in the late twentieth century no longer means
>finding "the correct version", but piecing together a mosaic of
>conflicting reports and views and effects in order to discover various
>insights and less than concrete lessons.

And hopefully, not accepting the pc theory outright, as the mock trial did.

>
>Welcome to Einsteinian history.

I didn't know Yahoo Serious wrote any history.

Ted


-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees
Xref: sparky alt.politics.clinton:19475 alt.rush-limbaugh:12822