HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Naturalism---could we have a group?
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:11:53 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <VSUMMERS.92Sep7092233@polaris.cv.nrao.edu> vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers) writes:
>     This is probably not the place to ask the subject question, but then
>I don't know proper procedure.
>     Have you notice that a large portion of GNUS is devoted to stupid
>subjects like bestiality, homosexuals, hamsters and duct tape, sex pictures,
>etc.?     
>     Not one to wildflowers, birds, trees, naturalism (I think).
>We have chem and mol bio, but have you gone out and admired the chem or mol bio
>of plants on a sunny day?  Couldn't someone, perhaps from rec.gardens(?)
>who is familiar with the computer system, has the interest if not the knowledge,
>and who has the time, pursue this for us?  Not legal efforts at environmental
>control.  There is already a sci.environment.  Politics, etc., needn't
>be a part.  That could be up to the one initiating the group, of course.
>
   Vince, I'm sure you're well-meaning, but in asking this simple 
   question, you've complicated it and probably undermined your
   good intentions by insulting a number of different groups.  I don't
   know what hamsters have to do with duct tape, nor what either has
   to do with gays;  I'm sure there's many gays who would be interested
   in your suggestion but have been effectively turned off by you.
   I'm not only gay, but also a plant molecular biologist.  Nonetheless
   when it comes to esthetics, I enjoy admiring the whole plant on a 
   sunny day as well as fungi on rainy cool days.  I enjoyed studying
   what I know now to be natural history when I was 7 years old; you've
   perhaps inadvertently polarized a whole group of people who might
   enjoy what you're suggesting by supplying divisions between them.

   Not the best way to achieve your purpose.

   Wayne
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: Re: Container Gardening
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:27:34 GMT

In article: <lact6uINNems@news.bbn.com>  lgoodman@BBN.COM (Laurie Goodman) 
asks:

>I am planning to convert a rather unattractive stretch of concrete
>patio into a container garden. The patio is on the south-west corner of
>of the house. There is much sun during the day, with portions in partial
>shade, with dappled light when surrounding trees leaf out. My intentions 
>are to grow annuals, perennials, and some veggies in pots, barrels, and
>planters of various shapes and sizes. We are in zone 6, I believe (suburban
>Boston, west of rt 128).
>
>I would welcome any and all advice from this wonderful gardening
>community, including references about potting soils, plant and small
>tree combinations etc. My husband would love to have a dogwood. Is that
>feassible? I know about the Ortho book on container gardening. Are there 
>others especially recommended.? I have looked at Books in Print, and
>there are several available.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Laurie <lgoodman@bbn.com>

While thumbing thru some back issues of Fine Gardening at a friends last 
month, I noticed an interesting article about gardening ON TOP of concrete 
and asphalt!  I looked like an interesting idea but needed LOTS of 
watering.   On the other hand, just think, you wouldn't have to blast up 
that old patio!

Sorry, I don't have access right now to which issue it was. You can 
probably look it up at the library.

--Jill

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: rogerv@sco.COM (Roger Vortman)
Subject: Re: Shady Groundcover
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:21:58 GMT


>In article <64523@cup.portal.com> zoetrope@cup.portal.com 
>(Devan DzM MacFarlane) writes:
>>I need to find a good groundcover plant or a variety of plants that will do
>>well in a semi-shade environment.
>>
>>So that you know the type of environment I live in, I live in the
>>San Francisco Bay Area which is classified as a "Mediterranian" climate.
>>

There is an excellent book out on gardening in the shade as well.  It
is called "The Shade Gardener" or somesuch.  Anyway, I can get the actual
title and author if anyone is interested.  It is about the only good book
that I have seen dedicated to shade gardening.

-Roger
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: gcv2010@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: More (hot) pepper questions
Reply-To: gcv2010@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:37:50 GMT

In article <6889@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Stan England) writes:
>In a previous post to this topic, Judy Karpen asked if there would
>be any interest in a gardening newsgroup. I tried to respond directly
>to Judy but the mail bounced back. I would like to see such a group,
>perhaps rec.gardening and if there was enough interest then maybe 
>the subgroup that Judy suggest could be rec.gardening.organic.

There already exists such a group--rec.gardens.  They are organically-minded
for the most part, so I doubt the need for a subgroup.

Cheryl
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: hilling leeks
From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 03:17:15 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

In scotland they wrap newspaper around the leeks to blanch them.  Why
not try that. Probably need to keep about 6 inches of green to photosynthesize.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand
From: joannek@ems.cdc.com (Joanne Kube-Harderwijk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Grape Hyacinths
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:12:56 GMT
Reply-To: joannek@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC


Three or four years ago I planted a bunch (total about 60 bulbs from 2 sources)
of grape hyacinth (Muscari).  They are planted in group of 10-15 bulbs in
several different spots in my garden.  The first spring leaves appeared but no
flowers.  The leaves stayed green for a long time (longer than my other bulbs,
tulips, daffs, crocus) then finally died back.  The next spring when the snow 
melted ther were mats of new leaves(about 4-8 inches long each) under the snow
as it melted.  They bloomed later that spring.  They then died back (again 
later than other bulbs) and towards fall sent up leaves again.  These leaves
remained throughout the winter and eventually the following (late) spring they
bloomed.  This seems to be the pattern since I just noticed a new crop of leaves
again after they died back in early August.  (BTW this is Minneapolis, Minn. 
zone 4)

This is the only spring bulb I have ever had that acted like this.  Is this 
typical for grape hyacinth?  Are 'my' grape hyacinths confused? or am I?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|   Joanne Kube-Harderwijk               Empros Systems International
|   email - joannek@ems.cdc.com          2300 Berkshire Ln
|   Phone - (612) 553-4765               Plymouth, Mn. 55441-3694
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   I am not a spokeman for my employer.  All the dumb things I say are my own.
|   "I know nothing, nothing..." - Sargeant Schultz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups:rec.gardens
Distribution: world
Followup-To: 
From: joannek@ems.cdc.com (Joanne Kube-Harderwijk)
Reply-To: joannek@ems.cdc.com
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of Ceridian
Subject:Grape Hyacinth 
Keywords: 

Three or four years ago I planted a bunch (total about 60 bulbs from 2 sources)
of grape hyacinth (Muscari).  They are planted in group of 10-15 bulbs in
several different spots in my garden.  The first spring leaves appeared but no
flowers.  The leaves stayed green for a long time (longer than my other bulbs,
tulips, daffs, crocus) then finally died back.  The next spring when the snow 
melted ther were mats of new leaves(about 4-8 inches long each) under the snow
as it melted.  They bloomed later that spring.  They then died back (again 
later than other bulbs) and towards fall sent up leaves again.  These leaves
remained throughout the winter and eventually the following (late) spring they
bloomed.  This seems to be the pattern since I just noticed a new crop of leaves
again after they died back in early August.  (BTW this is Minneapolis, Minn. 
zone 4)

This is the only spring bulb I have ever had that acted like this.  Is this 
typical for grape hyacinth?  Are 'my' grape hyacinths confused? or am I?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|   Joanne Kube-Harderwijk               Empros Systems International
|   email - joannek@ems.cdc.com          2300 Berkshire Ln
|   Phone - (612) 553-4765               Plymouth, Mn. 55441-3694
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   I am not a spokeman for my employer.  All the dumb things I say are my own.
|   "I know nothing, nothing..." - Sargeant Schultz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ehwd@sherman.pas.rochester.edu (Eric Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Naturalism---could we have a group?
Date: 7 Sep 92 21:47:37 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester

In article <1992Sep7.145233.20296@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
>
>surely it would be possible to ask this simple question - is there any
>interest in a nature study / natural history newsgroup? - without
>gratuitous insults (there are a thousand or so newsgroups, each with
>its own reason for being; no one is forcing this fool to read any of
>them, nor is anyone interested in his opinion about whether they are
>worthwhile or not), malicious fabrications (there is no group devoted
>to hamsters and duct tape, nor has any actual human being ever messed
>around with hamsters in the fashion this idiot seems to be alluding
>to), and outright falsehoods (a very tiny number of the newsgroups are
>devoted to sex-related topics, and a very tiny number - three, by my
>count - of *them* are concerned in any way with homosexuality).
>
>in fact, it seems to me that this way of presenting the question
>virtually guarantees that no one will pursue the question.  who
>would want to associate themselves with such a mean-spirited buffoon?
>
>as a very amateur but enthusiastic wildflower person, i think this
>would be a shame.
>
>perhaps the proposal could be allowed to die away for the moment, and
>later be reintroduced by someone with some intelligence and some
>humanity.
>
>arnold 

Thank you arnold, I was about to go non-linear and post something 
much less well thought out, until I read your post. 

eric
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bbeer@milton.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Subject: Tree Peonies From Seed - Questions.
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:37:18 GMT

I recently acquired some seeds of a tree peony and would like to try and
grow them.  Any peony experts out there?  (Kay?? :)

I need to know specifically (and maybe need to know other things as well):

1.	Do the seeds require stratification?  

2.	Do they need to be nicked?

3.	What is the best temp for germination?

4.	How long to maturity?
	(I am patient!)

5.	Any other helpful hints?

Thanks for any help available.

Bob
From: larry@wolves.uucp (Lawrence F. London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Agricultural Library Forum (ALF) BBS access info
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:39:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wolves Den UNIX and Usenet node
X-Md4-Signature: 41b96b8e7d10e70c09cbebe7627fa8cd

Access to ALF for shareware gardening/horticultural/landcaping software.
========================================================================

ALF is the Agricultural Library Forum BBS sponsored by the
National Agricultural Library. It has a message area, files for download,
bulletins and newsletters and can be reached at the following numbers:

301-504-6510
301-504-5496
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Subject: re: Grape Hyacinths
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:23:52 GMT

joannek@ems.cdc.com (Joanne Kube-Harderwijk) asks:

>Three or four years ago I planted a bunch (total about 60 bulbs from 2 sources)
>of grape hyacinth (Muscari). 
>  --stuff deleted--
>               They bloomed later that spring.  They then died back (again 
>later than other bulbs) and towards fall sent up leaves again.  These leaves
>remained throughout the winter and eventually the following (late) spring they
>bloomed.  This seems to be the pattern since I just noticed a new crop of leaves
>again after they died back in early August.  (BTW this is Minneapolis, Minn. 
>zone 4)
>
>This is the only spring bulb I have ever had that acted like this.  Is this 
>typical for grape hyacinth?  Are 'my' grape hyacinths confused? or am I?
>
>|   Joanne Kube-Harderwijk               Empros Systems International
>|   email - joannek@ems.cdc.com          2300 Berkshire Ln
>|   Phone - (612) 553-4765               Plymouth, Mn. 55441-3694
>|

That is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for my Muscari.

--Jill

--
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    | 

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond)
Subject: Japanese Maple for Dinner
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:34:04 GMT


I keep finding twigglets from my fairly freshly planted beautiful little
japanese maple - looks like someone's trying to eat them - but then I found
some in the pond - maybe they tried to wash them? Would any critter do these
things? The tree looks healthy despite this . . . . Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: zones
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 02:16:32 GMT

kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) writes:

>Many Westerners use the Sunset Magazine zones, which are much more
>detailed (see Sunset Western Garden Book for good maps).  My problem
>is how to translate my Zone 16 to the zone system used by nurseries
>accustomed to zones 1-9 only!

They don't translate as the Sunset scheme takes precip patterns and
other things into account as well which the USDA scheme ignores.  The
USDA system is virtually useless in my opinion.

For example, I'm in a zone 5 by their book.  I live in semi-arid Utah
at 5000ft with total precip of 14" most of which comes in the winter
as snow.  Look at the USDA map and you'll find Nova Scotia is also
zone 5.  I don't know what their precip is but I'll bet it's over 40"
a year and evenly distributed, elevation is 0-200 feet, the sky will
more overcast more often, humidity will be 2x greater, etc, yet we're
both in the same zone.  There is virtually nothing in common except
minimum winter low temps.

The difference in rain patterns can be very significant.  For example,
Denver, CO might seem a reasonable comparison to our climate with most
everything being similar.  But, they get a lot of their precip as rain
during the summer from Gulf influences whereas our summers are very
dry.  This makes all the difference in their having prairie whereas we
can't - all our grasses dry up in June and stay that way until next
March.  Of course Denver is certainly a better comparison to us than
Nova Scotia, all of us in a zone 5.

Bottom line is to follow the Sunset scheme wherever you can if you
can't actually find any of the plants growing in your area.
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: zones
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Sep3.204717.6499@iscsvax.uni.edu> 
	<1992Sep4.235807.9273@casbs.Stanford.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:15:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.235807.9273@casbs.Stanford.EDU> 
kathleen@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Kathleen Much) writes:
>Many Westerners use the Sunset Magazine zones, which are much more
>detailed (see Sunset Western Garden Book for good maps).  My problem
>is how to translate my Zone 16 to the zone system used by nurseries
>accustomed to zones 1-9 only!  Many don't print "pretty picture
>catalogs" with maps in them.  If anyone can tell me what USDA zone
>Menlo Park, CA, is in, maybe I can choose plants more intelligently.

USDA Zone	Average Winter Low
9a		low twenties
9b		upper twenties
10a		low thirties

Sunset Zone 16 would be between USDA 9b and 10a, but you may as well
forget the USDA stuff if you live in the West, especially Calif.
The USDA zones are set up in the East where winter cold is the factor in
the north and hot and humid low-chill is the factor in the south. In the
West, well we just don't have that type climate, let's face it, on an
average summer day it is 60 and foggy in SF and 105 and sunny in SAC
just one hour east. Better to go by the Sunset Zones, that's why they
were developed. Menlo Park, Zone 16 sounds like a good place to grow
bananas to me. You can grow almost anything in Zone16, but check Sunset
first, forget USDA zones. USDA zone 9b is central Florida, but Menlo
Park is absolutely nothing like central Florida. If it was, we'd have
gators, mangrove and manatees in the bay, instead of Humphrey the
Humpback.
From: tomb@hplsla.hp.com (Tom Bruhns)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:25:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Raising PH - collect rainwater?
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.gardens

gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:

>Okay: first, you probably wouldn't want to DRINK tap water of pH 5.5, 
...

>Finally, I called the city and got several answers: the annual water
>quality report lists pH of 8.7 and the actual water engineers told me 
>that this summer it has been between 9.6 - 9.8.  Ask the professionals,
>it's their job!  I hate to think of what that poor little hydro tank
>has gone through.

Some notes about pH:  Aqueous soultions that aren't too concentrated
have free hydrogen ion and hydroxide ion concentrations such that the
product of the two concentrations, expressed in moles/liter, is about
10^-14.  pH is defined at -log(hydrogen ion concentration).  So pH
of 7 means 10^-7 molar hydrogen ions, and, to satisfy that product,
10^-7 molar hydroxide ions.  Add either one and the other goes down,
to keep the product constant:  the one that goes down does so by
combining free ions with the one you added, to make water.

Because of this logarithm thing, you can get pH changes near pH=7 with
very tiny amounts of added acid or base, given pure (unbuffered) water
to start with.

For example: pH 5.5 can be achieved by adding about 2 _micro_liters of
concentrated HCl to a gallon of pure water (assuming I didn't mess up the
calcs).

Excess hydroxide can be as bad for you as excess hydrogen ion, so if
you worry about drinking pH 5.5 water, you probably should be about
as worried about drinking pH 8.5!  I'd personally be much more worried
about what _else_ is in the water!
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (David M. Stapleton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Caladiums/elephant ears
Keywords: Winter care
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:18:39 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

Does any one out there have any experience protecting Caladium and
Elephant Ear bulbs in the ground through the winter months? Mine seem
to freeze and never live till spring. One year I just took the bulbs out 
and put them in a basket and stored them in a closet. Is there another
way?

The Temprate Zone 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jwilson@chopin.udel.edu (James Wilson)
Subject: Re: Iris - How big?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:58:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.143243.7293@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> csjan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jan Faires) writes:
>And while we're asking questions about iris . . . the blooming season
>for bearded iris (is that the same as German Iris?) is over much too
... (for general purposes, yes.  Let me know if you want to split
hairs.)

Lengthening the bloom season has been approached from several directions
by nature and by hybridizers of irises.  Ben Hager, for example, 
introduced a few very-late-blooming tall bearded irises through
Melrose Gardens this year, with the claim that one of them blooms with
the early Japanese.  Other bearded irises of varying heights will
often rebloom, blooming in their regular season and then sending up more
stalks in the summer and/or fall.  A couple that are reliable in
much of the country that way are SDB Baby Blessed and TB Immortality.
Many others exist, some more reliably reblooming in warmer zones.
On the early end of the season are Miniature Dwarf Bearded (MDB)
and Standard Dwarf Bearded (SDB), which fill the tulip gap very
nicely.

Also on the late end are siberian iris, which not nearly enough people
grow.  Their flowers are small and elegant, and should appeal to those
who don't like the large floppy Japanese.  Many modern varieties are
especially known for their good-looking foliage too.  One variety
prized for foliage is Cleve Dodge; another that browns upright is
Jamaican Velvet.  Some current overall favorites are Lady Vanessa, Shirley
Pope, Jewelled Crown, Butter and Sugar, Pink Haze, King of Kings, and
Mabel Coday.  Work has also gone on to lengthen the bloom season
of these.  Lavender Bounty was one of the first good repeat bloomers,
and now there are also others like Tiffany Lass and Ever Again with
the repeat bloom and improved flower form.  In general siberians tend
to get going as the TBs wind down, and tend to wind down as the 
Japanese get going.

English Irises (from I. latifolium) bloom after most tall beardeds
and before most Japanese.  Spanish Irises (from I. xiphium) bloom
with the tall bearded.  Dutch Irises (from I. xiphium and others)
bloom a couple of weeks before the Spanish.

I did not find Bronze Queen in the Median Bearded Iris checklist.
Your source is probably the most reliable reference.  Iris heights
are usually listed as the height of the flower stalk, but it is
possible that someone listed a foliage height.

						--Jim

-- 

Jim Wilson                             jwilson@brahms.udel.edu
Instructional Technology Center	       (302) 831-1291
University of Delaware                 Newark, Delaware   19716
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: unusual monarda
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:52:09 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep15.140223.4892@kodak.kodak.com>, bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant) writes:
> I planted some monarda (bee balm) last fall. They did wonderfully this 
summer, but one of the plants did something unusual. The flower clusters 
on this one plant did not terminate in the usual single cluster. 
Instead the stem continued on straight up through the center of the cluster 
and ended in a second cluster. Forming a double pom-pom affect. Almost 
all of the flowers on this plant did this. The leaves on this plant were 
also different, with a heavy dark red line going down the center vein 
of the leaves

Wild guess at Monarda didyma, maybe M. citriodora or punctata.

Kay Klier