HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:30:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: RE: Jazz, Imitatio, Writing (9)

Date:         Thu, 08 Oct 1992 05:13:04 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id:   <1992Oct08.051304.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      RE: RE:  Jazz, Imitatio, Writing (9)
              <01GPOSC67A9C934TQ6@ulkyvx.bitnet>
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Regarding the idea of memory pegs and how they may be used to recall
passages in speeches (a topic Dan Quigley and I've discussed before), in Cog
Sci class I can remember clinical examples of uses of this memory technique
by doctors with patients suffering from short-term and intermediate-term
memory defects (caused by stroke or other brain lesions).  The
clinician/researchers reported good success with such mnemonic techniques as
having the patient attach short-term items (such as grocery lists) to
long-term memories that could be retrieved.  I believe you can trace the
idea (in print) back to Socrates' aviary in which the "keeper" can recall
certain birds (ideas) as they fly by but not all--certainly that is an early
example of the "concretization" of memory as individual units that comprise
a bounded unity.

I wish I could find my grad school paper on Camillo and his memory theatre,
but I lost it and forgot where the original and backup disks were stored
(and that's pretty ironic considering the topic).

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "Do not search for the truth. Simply cease to cherish opinion"
                                           - Sengstan, Third Zen Patriarch

------------------------------
From: S1.RJB@ISUMVS.BITNET (Rockie Beaman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Please clarify deadline
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:44:02 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

To Computers & Writing Conference Chairs,

There appears to be some confusion regarding the deadline for C&W proposals.
Some of my colleagues believe it is Oct 15th and others believe it is Nov 1st.
 Could someone please post a note of clarification?

Thanks in advance,

Rockie
Iowa State
From: ykflb@TTACS1.TTU.EDU (brown, lady)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: RE: now THAT was a debate
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:24:00 GMT
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Yes.  That was a DEBATE!?  I especially liked the admiral's
comments about a woman's right to choose.  Period!
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:30:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mandatory Portables for School LANS (14)

Date:         Fri, 09 Oct 1992 04:47:30 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id:   <1992Oct09.044730.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Mandatory Portables for School LANS (14)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

Dan Quigley here has suggested NYIT go with this idea also.  I've had some
reservations about it in IBM compatible LANS because I've wondered how we
license the software for network access.  Each machine would need some way
to communicate with the NET.  Probably some sort of EtherNet card or one of
those parallel port adapters could be made part of the machine, but who owns
those hardware parts--the student or the school?  If we went with the
parallel port option, are those slow compared to "thick/thin-Net"
connections? And what about the software?  Would students need software
configured for their own portable--we need to configure our LAN software now
for each type of machine (8088, 80286, 80386).  Would we supply that or
would they?  If they supplied it, how do you protect your system from
intrusion and viruses (a real problem we're always encountering)?  I realize
that with Macs, the Appletalk network is builtin or you've got the option of
SCSI, but PowerBooks are grossly overpriced--at least our children of
immigrant and Crribean Island students couldn't afford them even with loans.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "Do not search for the truth. Simply cease to cherish opinion"
                                           - Sengstan, Third Zen Patriarch

------------------------------
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 10:00:56 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Reply to Re: Community of Teachers?

Re Margaret Daisley's "When will the novelty [of CMC] wear off?"

Miss Daisley (sorry, couldn't resist)--with the way this medium is taking
off, I don't think we're ever going to look back.  Other media will be
integrated (visual, sound, etc.) and present hard- and software will continue
to improve, expanding the uses of CMC.  The world will become a village,
information will be at our fingetips, literally, and ways in which we make
social and political decisions, as well as business ones, will be enhanced in
ways that we can't even imagine.  The media is evolving, and each new horizon
introduces another, newer, more exciting landscape.

Jim S.
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:59:25 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Provostial support group

Well, trouble has appeared, and you all have witnessed it first hand.  The
millenium arrived today.  Several weeks ago, the novice provost created a
committee, and today we discovered that the committee name is an acronym...
and he didn't even realize it!  The committee is the "Inventory of the
Actual" -- IOTA for short.  Worse, another committee, established just
today, is called "Optimal Use of Resources" or OURS.  Don't you all think
that the unconscious use of acronyms reveals a serious intellectual erosion
and that we should marshall the troops?

In case you are wondering about the personal repercussions of provostial
development, let's just say that the "patterns of laundry implementation
are being partially reallocated" and that "domestic work patterns are being
investigated with respect to the input/output ratio."

Fun in the southwest!


Karen, handmaiden....
From: FISTER@GACVAX1.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: knowledge index and mla
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:54:00 GMT
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Is MLA still available on Knowledge Index?  A month or so ago the
Dialog people failed to come to an agreement with MLA about pricing
and it is no longer searchable via Dialog--not sure if that put the
kibosh on MLA via Knowledge Index or not.
        Barbara Fister
        Gustavus Adolphus College
        fister@gacvx1.gac.edu
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:51:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      basic writing in retrospect

Just thought y'all might be interested.  After all of my glorious talk
about developing "inner criteria" from students commenting on each
others' papers, I decided to bring in a chunk of what I wrote about
Pauline and Chantel's comments for my class to discuss.  I prefaced
handing out the page of text saying that I wanted to call attention to
some comments a few students had made, show the class how seriously I
took the comments and to demonstrate how seriously I wanted them to take
comments from each other.  I discovered that Pauline had not really paid
much attention to the written comment on the page that told her the
sentence did not work right.  Instead, she remembered what Chantel had
told her when they discussed the comment, something about Chantel not
knowing what a temporary job was (the swimmer whose parents would not
let her work remember).
        But, by calling attention to those two little comments in class,
we ended up having an interesting discussion about error, university
expectations, and the difference between spoken meanings and written
meanings.  Our discussion was a nice preface for the read aloud editing
sessions students did in small groups on papers they were to turn in
that day.  I had never asked students to read their papers aloud to each
other as a means of helping them hear their own mistakes and get
feedback from others.  Worked great!  Thanks for the ideas Michael, Liz,
and others.
jeff galin
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Via:        UK.AC.NSF; 12 OCT 92 16:03:50 BST
Via:        uk.ac.rutherford.ibm-b; Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:03:12 +0100
Via:        UK.AC.LE; 12 OCT 92 16:03:27 BST
Mailer:     Janet_Mailshr V3.4 (23-May-1989)
Errors-To:  CTI Centre for Geography <CTI@LEICESTER.AC.UK>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:02:00 BST
Reply-To:     CTI Centre for Geography <CTI@LEICESTER.AC.UK>
From:         CTI@LEICESTER.AC.UK
Subject:      CTI Centre for Geography

    The Computers in Teaching Initiative (CTI) was set up in 1989 by the UK
    Universities Funding Council to promote the use of computers in
    teaching in higher education. The CTI operates through  network of 20
    subject based centres which are spread through the UK universitity
    sector. The CTI Centre for Geography is based at Leicester University
    and publishes, among other things, a Newsletter on Computer Assisted
    Learning in Geography. This is sent free to every member of every
    university geography department, computer centre education officers and
    other colleagues in the UK, as well as to colleagues on all five
    contienents who wish to subscribe.
    	The CTI Centre for Geography is actively working to assist
    geographers implement CAL strategies, and would like to hear from
    anyone who shares this interest.
    	We also intend embarking on a study/speaking tour of the US and
    Canada in the summer of 1993, and would like to hear from anyone who
    would like to host a visit.

    John Castleford
    Coordinator
    CTI Centre for Geography
    University of Leicester
    Leicester, LE1 7RH
    UK
    email: CTI@leicester.ac.uk
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:17:01 MST
From:         Elizabeth Vander Lei <IDEAV@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      rhet student isolation

At ASU, a couple of us rhetoric grads created a "sophistic society" which we
registered with the university.  We started holding meetings (no one came at
first I think they were afraid of us rabid rhetoricians), put out a lampoonish
newletter which we distributed to the entire English department, and hosted
a conference for all Arizona rhetors.  We have received much more positive
feedback from the department than we deserve, and this year, thanks in no
small part to rhetorician David, the department funded us $500 to host the
conference.  It's amazing what a little grass roots can do!

Elizabeth Vander Lei
Assistant Director of First Year Composition
Arizona State University
IDEAV@ASUACAD
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Organization: University of Alabama English Dept.
X-pmrqc:      1
Priority:     normal
X-mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:04:50 CDT
From:         Don Langham <DLANGHAM@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Alternatives to Daedalus for MS-DOS systems?

>      A note on Jim's earlier reported endorsement of Textra --
> we used it last year and found it very successful: easy to learn
> and powerful enough.  Two problems: it doesn't exist in a network
> version, and even if you ask students each to buy their own
> (Norton's suggestion solution) there are problems with handling
> network files.  And it's not easily convertible to other formats,
> though I understand version 2.5 is going to rectify this.
>                                     -- Russ
> Russell A. Hunt            _~|__)_ __)~|__   Learning and Teaching
>

Rus, I'm curious as to exactly what kind of problems you're having
getting the students' copies of Textra (do you mean Norton Textra
2.x?) to handle network files.  (I think I may have deleted the
message you sent explaining some of this to Doyle.  Sorry.)  As for
file conversion, version 2.1 easily converts to WordPerfect 5.x.

If you want a word processor that's easy to use (like Norton Textra)
and powerful (like WordPerfect), consider Textra's commercial
product, Textra 7.0.  (As I understand it, it'll be available
after Thanksgiving.)  I've seen the beta of 7.0, and it's pretty
impressive.  Like version 6.0, it has a very good page preview that
makes DTP tasks easier.  It reads and writes (or is supposed to read
and write) W.perfect 4 and 5, MS Word 4, Wordstar and others I can't
remember right now.  And it does table of contents and indexing.


--Don Langham
  University of Alabama
  DLangham@English.as.ua.edu
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:08:32 -0600
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Pegasus Mail

I saw the ref. to Pegasus Mail and would like to know (a) where and for how
much can I get it? (b) what can it do--whatever it can do must be better than
the antiquated "edit" system I use on this Vax account.
Thnaks
Liz Hamp-Lyons
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:36:02 -0600
From:         "(Michael Day)" <mday@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Basic writing, again and again

Thank-you David S. for explaining so well what I mean about the
aural/oral dimensions of text, and the way an oral interpretation
of a text can actually guide analysis.  I think the UC Berkeley
Rhetoric Dept. made a big mistake when they abandoned that approach,
marginalized Bob Beloof (and a host of others interested in poetry
and oral interp.), and jumped head first into the European post-
structuralist THEORY quagmire.  It ain't completely dead, David,
but the buzzards are circling.

Do you (all of you) ever ask your students to read their papers
out load as part of the revision/proofreading process?  Does anyone
have evidence that it helps?

Michael Day
(AKA Michale Day)
mday@silver.sdsmt.edu
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:20:25 -0700
From:         Karen Schwalm <SCHWALM@GC.BITNET>
Subject:      Jazz Digression and its value

May I add a vote in favor of the wide-ranging discussions on MBU?  While I
haven't read all of the entries (pressing schedule and all that), I
appreciated the initial connection between improvization and copying models
that I think is at the heart of what Martin is talking about, and if I've
grossly over-simplified your comments, Martin, (and who can avoid it) I
apologize.

But the important point about these discussions, whatever the topic, is
that Megabunnies are practicing writers as well as teachers.  So many of my
colleagues write only little phonemic puffs (awk, see me, agr); they don't,
on a daily basis, write anything that resembles what their students tangle
with.  Even if I write something short on MBU, and even if it is directly
related to my teaching, I am composing in a vein more nearly like the one
inhabited by my students.  We all agree that to teach with computers
effectively, we have to use them ourselves.  I also think that to teach
writing effectively, we have to write also, and I don't mean WRITE (in
lofty/pompous tones as in po-try, lit-rah-ture, and such).  I mean the get-
down-and-dirty writing of everyday life.  MBU keeps reminding us that we
are writers as well as teachers, and I really like that!

--Karen T. Schwalm              Department of English
--Glendale Community College    Maricopa Community College District
--6000 West Olive Avenue        Voice: (602) 435-3651  Bitnet: schwalm@gc
--Glendale, Arizona  85302      Internet: schwalm@gc.maricopa.edu
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:03:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      hypertalk good stuff

Jeff, I really didn't make myself clear when I was comparing
hypertalk with BASIC or Pascal.  I didn't mean to say there was
some essential difference between the older and newer languages,
or that the older ones could do more.  My comment about easier
and harder dealt with the perceptions of those who are not
familier with any of this.  BASIC and Pascal ring a bell with
computer illiterates; Hypertalk, so far, doesn't, or at least not
as clear a bell.  My use of "authoring languages" was also
confusing, but again, people who haven't really thought much
about it have trouble seeing HyperCard as a "compiler" in the
sense of a BASIC or Pascal compiler, and I believe Atkinson
himself distinguishes the "stacks" idea from that of a "library"
of Pascal or other language programmed modules; he calls
HyperCard an "erector set for software" (Carol Kaehler,
*HyperCard Power*) and implies that hypertalk scripts are much
easier to program (because of the high level of support in
Hypercard) than previous languages, just as -- as I said in my
earlier message -- Turbo Pascal is much easier to program than
earlier versions of Pascal.  Hence, again as I said, I had
presumed experts decrying my use of Turbo as a language
substitute, not because it couldn't do what the earlier languages
could, but because it was simply too easy and didn't put me
through the traditional hoops, or at least not enough of them.

So I don't really have an "argument" about any of this, just a
sort of recognition of human nature in academia, that the
language requirement is probably not so much a real-world
requirement for future study as one more test of a student's
tenacity and willingness to follow orders -- i.e. dig holes and
fill them in.  It would be an interesting study to see just how
many successful academics actually employ their studied languages
in their teaching and research.  While I'm sure many of them do,
I believe that those of us investigating computer-based
instruction make a far greater use of Pascal or HyperTalk in our
subsequent careers, as a rule.  But we're working against
tradition, certain measures of academic prestige, a general
anti-utilitarian bias, and boot-campism.  I'm on your side, Jeff.
Fred Kemp, TTU
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:01:27 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Community of Teachers
              10 Oct 1992 22:36:00 CDT from <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>

Bob Boston,
  I'd like to argue for some sympathy for the TA who resented your presence.
Not sympathy with what he was doing; I'm all with you there.  But it's hard
for people who are just beginning to teach in a computer classroom to figure
out how to use it, and in some ways even harder for new teachers, who don't
feel very confident about what they're doing anyway.  I say, let's educate
these people, not condemn them.  Perhaps you're right that he's not good enough
for the computer classroom; but perhaps by including him in the "project
effect" he'll get better.
  Wes Chapman
  Illinois Wesleyan University
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Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:28:23 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Mastering Perfect Writer (16)

 *** Reply to note of 10/15/92 19:38
 We've got a Kaypro II and a Kaypro 2 sitting idle in the closet next to bags
 of software that was an is pretty powerful stuff. At my last garage sale,
 people just looked at these pups as some sort of antiques. I also have almost
 a complete set of the Kaypro magazine.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
From: NKAPLAN@UTDALLAS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Good books for Education courses
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:16:16 GMT
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X-Warning: Unauthenticated sender

Help, guys and gals.  I've been asked to do a guest stint for a curriculum
and instruction course on computers in the language arts curriculum.  The
instructor of the course is requiring students to read Eileen Schwartz and
Edward Vockell's _The Computer in the English Curriculum_ so I looked at it
myself.  I think it is dated and gives an inadequate picture of the
relationship between computer technologies and literacy, but I could not
come up with the name of a comparable but superior text for this teacher to
use in the next iteration of this course.  (The teacher herself is not
computer literate, adding to the difficulty here.)  Can a bunch of you
suggest something appropriate for this context?

Thanks ever so much.
Nancy Kaplan
University of Texas at Dallas
Box 830688
Richardson, TX  75083-0688

(214) 690-2071
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:13:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      ICLAS

Regarding Russ Hunt's latest message:  Is anybody out there using
ICLAS productively, or is it really the supreme piece of junk I
think it is?   Fred Kemp, TTU
From: LHAMPLYONS@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: ERIC resources online
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:01:17 GMT
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I haven't been following the ERIC thread but if people are having trouble gettin
   g them,
try:
cal@guvax
and put attn: ERIC in the Subject line (BTW guvax is Bitnet)
Liz
From: BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: RE: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Using a VAX with a Mac front end (20)
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:57:00 GMT
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Mac Kermit, which is in the public domain, includes a VT-100 emulator.
JOhn B
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 16:59:14 -0400
From:         Lili Velez <lv08+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: End Of The World, Part I (*MBU*) (1)

Is it just me, or is there something odd about someone writing from
Project Gutenberg, the copy-text-into-_our_-medium people, saying that
their message may not be copied without written permission?

Lili
Rhet in the Blue Linen Labcoat,
just back from SLS and feeling a little puckish