From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: misc.education,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.women
Subject: Pardon me, whilst I get raw (was: "Reflections [...]")
Followup-To: alt.discrimination
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:06:39
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: panther.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: johnhall@microsoft.com's message of 13 Dec 92 23:24:28 GMT

This is a broad-based reply and has very little to do with John Hall.

johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
|In article sbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell) writes:
|| johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
|| || AA does not stigmatize qualified people.  
|| |Talk to Stephen Carter then.  Explain to Mr Carter, who supports AA,
|| |that he is mistaken when he notes that AA has stigmatized him. 
|| You should not delete surrounding context.  I'll repeat:  AA does not
|| stigmatize qualified people.  Others use AA as an excuse to do so.

|Stephen Carter notes that he is stigmatized.  Therefore,
|AA does stigmatize qualifed people.  I don't thank Mr. Carter
|has any problems with his self confidence, either.  The fact you 
|personally do not feel stigmatized, does not change this.

And the fact that he *does* feel stigmatized does not say anything
either.  Your argument works both ways I'm afraid.  And it remains
true: AA does not stigmatize, people use it to stigmatize.

|The central problem is one of honors.  An honor is something
|which depends upon other people to recognize and respect it
|for it to have value.  -- give everyone a medal of
|honor and it ceases to be worth anything.  This deprives those
|qualified for the honor of the respect they have earned, while
|giving the others nothing of consequence.

|Stigmatization is a rational response to the knowledge that
|honors have been given away.  It is an inevitable result.
|People (like yourself, I presume) who are qualified by any
|standard either resent the stigmatization (Carter, Sowell, Steele)
|or rationalize it by saying everyone is bigoted, anyway.

Sometimes you just have to get raw.

You confuse "knowledge" with "perception."  I know, for example, that
promotions and jobs are doled out in ways that have very little to do
with the best qualifications (most jobs are found by word-of-mouth,
that is, to abuse notation, nepotism).  That people selectively "know"
that Black people are given jobs while they also "know" that the
internship they got with pop's company because he knew the people in
charge was something they earned is an interesting example of the
human ability to rationalize, but it does not make their perceptions
any more reflective of reality.

It would not surprise me if many people in the lab think I was "given"
my position in the MIT AI lab; however, I do not care.  You see, they	
forget: I've seen them write--most in this field are horribly dry
writers who couldn't explain their research to themselves--and I
understand much of their work.  It is obvious to me that I am more
than qualified to be here.

I mean, really, until their "knowledge" of my underqualifications
interferes with my job, I find myself utterly uninterested.  What are
they going to do?  Take away my parking space?  They can't; I *own*
it.

The problem with most people, Black and White, is that they are too
concerned with the rubber stamp of their so-called peers; they let the
petty ignorance of others get to them.  They self-deprecate because it
is social convention and the vie for the the adulation and envy of
those around them thru various material possessions and social awards.
And even while they're doing this, they're trying to tear down others,
participating int he cycle of petty ignorance and envy.

I find this insane.  All of you can argue about this that and the
other until you are blue in the face.  I've read the arguments.  They
do not impress me.  It is clear that most of the people who whine
aren't even qualified to check my prose for punctuation errors, much
less get into a "great" school (another topic and a fine example of
conventional wisdom convincing people of idiocies).  Most of you
couldn't grasp a concept if you had a pair of pliers.

*I* know I'm qualified and not only that, I'm more qualified that
many others folks who are/were here.  I have yet to meet the USENET
participant smarter than me and as time goes on, I grow to doubt s/he
exists.  Others have not always been aware of my talents, but that
says something about them, not me.

The vast majority of the complainers would do well to take to their
own "stop whining and blaming other folks for your own lazy,
unqualifed failures" rhetoric and play it back to themselves.  Face
it, you just weren't good enough and wherever you are you're probably
in over your head.  You may take comfort in the fact that most of the
people around you are as well.  With this in mind, be happy you've
made it this far and try to do well.  Not all your failures are due to
you and neither are all your successes.  But even so, each failure and
each success *belong* to you.  Take them and learn something from them
and stop wasting your time arguing over silly things.

On Carter in particular, I recognize that it is Stephen Carter's
inalienable right to feel stigmatized.  If he wishes to wallow in it
then that is also his right; however, he should not be surprised if
his feelings do not apply to me and he should not allow his feelings
to prevent him from moving forward.  My reading of the man is such
that I do not think he has held himself back.  In fact, I wouldn't
even do him the disservice of comparing him to Shelby Steele, who
couldn't construct a cogent argument if ideas were made of lego blocks
or Thomas Sowell, who has to have written the windiest and most
ridiculous article I've ever seen in _Forbes_.

From the little I know, I respect Carter.  All of us would do well to
recognize all the people and things who've helped us get to where we
are.  I heartily acknowledge the help or influence of others in
getting me where I am now.  Were it not for the interest of the head
of the Ga Tech ICS department, there are lots of things I never would
have done, simply out of ignorance of the opportunity.  As a result I
may not have had the resume that helped me get into MIT.  Be that as
it may, I'm here and I can thank myself as well as Mr Jensen for my
success.

If I am unapologetic about my circumstances and you find me conceited
and arrogant, well that's too bad for you.  Hit the 'n' key and put me
in your kill file.  Better yet, unsubscribe to soc.culture.african.american 
and take this whole argument, which in truth does belong here, to your
group of friends and continue this intellectual circle jerk there.

Oh, and finally, I wouldn't label my view of the assortment of whiners
and envious folk who cycle thru scaa and tell us how unqualified, lazy
and stupid we are as "resentment."  

No, I'd label my feelings as "contempt."

Note the followup-to line.  Send USENET posts there.  Personal flames
you can send to yourself, I don't wish to be bored by any lame
attempts at it (you folks should have grown up in my 'hood--then you
might know what a flame is).





--
Peace.
                           "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
                                                     -- Dan Quayle
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-

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