HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: caedmon@cats.ucsc.edu (Axeman)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Clive Barker: From _The_Thief_Of_Always_
Date: 24 Dec 1992 06:02:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:

>POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT!!!!
>

>This is a description of a storm, from Barker's new book _The_Thief_Of_Always_.
>( Harper Collins, 240 pages, $20 ).

>"It had more than lightning at its dark heart. It had the light rains that
>came at early morning to coax forth the seeds of another spring; it had the
>drooping fogs of autumn, and the spiraling snows that had brought so many
>midnight Christmases ... shafts of sunlight piereced the storm-clouds in the
>name of Summer, only to be smothered by Fall's fog, while ... Spring coaxed
>its legions out of bough and earth, then saw its buds murdered by Winter's
>frosts before they could show their colors."

>Was King ever as good? =)
>(Admittedly, however, King's characters are still amongst the best in
>horror fiction. Barker is improving, but he's not up to SK's level in
>terms of characterisation just yet!!! )

>Chua
>+==+
>PS: Followups to alt.horror

I thought TToAlways was a disgrace.  It is evidant that Clive is moving back
to short stories, but I think TToA has a potentially good plot with an
extremely predictable series of events.  It seems, almost, that it was
written by Barker in his first few years after high school and he re-
discovered the document just recently.

-jq
-- 
,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,
,;';,   caedmon@ucscb.ucsc.edu               Jeff Ishaq          .,;';,
,;';,   I am a meatball:  Bite me.           Guitar withdrawal!  .,;';,
,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,.,;';,
From: dhentric@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu (David Hentrich)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: "Candyman" and Clive Barker? [spoilers]
Date: 1 Jan 1993 07:41:54 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


[stuff deleted]

> If you stop reading here, my list of some of the interesting similarities
> won't spoil the movie or story for you...


> Similarities				Differences
> ---------------------------------------------------
> In both the movie and the story, most	Ah, but the story is set in England
>    of the action is set in housing	   in a run-down project.  The movie
>    projects.				   is set in Detroit in an extremely
> 					   impoverished urban high-rise.

     Uhhh, maybe I'm wrong (very well could be), but didn't the movie
take place in Cabrinni Green in Chicago, not Detroit?  Correct me if
I'm wrong!

[interesting comparison/contrast deleted for sake 'o bandwidth]

> Summary:  Not as faithful an adaptation as "Misery" but much more faithful
>           than "The Lawnmower Man" (to pick two Stephen King adaptation
>           examples).

     I read somewhere that Stephen King is currently having his name
legally removed from _The Lawnmower Man_!

> Capsule Review:  Candyman is a decent horror movie, not for the squeamish,
>                  hurt by some clumsy scenes and an often ineffective Philip
>                  Glass soundtrack.  "The Forbidden" is not one of Barker's
>                  best stories, since it's a little wordy and doesn't
>                  develop all of the characters and situations effectively,
>                  but it's still engrossing.

     Excellent review!  I really liked the soundtrack, though!

> [estephen]		E. Stephen Mack		estephen@netcom.com

-- Dave Hentrich                        dhentric@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu
-- Computer Science Undergrad
-- University of Dayton
-- Projectionist
-- Loews Beaver Valley 6 (Dayton,OH)

** I speak only for myself! **
From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: "Candyman" and Clive Barker?
Date: 2 Jan 93 10:43:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services

In a recent article, dhentric@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu (David Hentrich) writes:

|[me:]> [...] The movie is set in Detroit [...]
 
|      Uhhh, maybe I'm wrong (very well could be), but didn't the movie
| take place in Cabrinni Green in Chicago, not Detroit?  Correct me if
| I'm wrong!

Ooops, alien brain-suckers from Venus confused me.  You're absolutely
right.  You know us Californians -- anything east of Las Vegas, well,
those big cities are all the same.


|[me:]> Capsule Review:  Candyman is [...] hurt by [...] an often
|[me:]>                  ineffective Philip Glass soundtrack [...].
 
|      Excellent review!  I really liked the soundtrack, though!

I like Glass (Koyanasqaatsi is one of my favorites), and I didn't think
his work here was *bad* per se, just inappropriate for a horror movie...
except at the beginning.  Overall, it wasn't frightening, it just made me
think of Einstein At The Beach or something.  The big problem with Glass
is that all of his work is very similar-sounding.  This can make it sound
out of context when used as a movie soundtrack.  (Koyanasqaatsi excepted.)

The opening scene, with the camera panning over the Detroit...um,
Chicago freeways accompanied by ominous, deep notes and the trademark
Glass arpeggios set the tone very effectively.  The later music didn't
have the deep bass line, and seemed to me too "light" to work right.

Overall, I still liked the movie.  If I had made it, I would probably have
jumped at the chance to get a Glass soundtrack, just like the producers
did.  In retrospect, I think it was a misstep.

[estephen]		E. Stephen Mack		estephen@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Subject: Re: Jacobs Ladder
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:36:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.024833.14102@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.022747.3990@news.eng.convex.com> ramon@convex.com (Ramon Dominguez) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec29.020157.11546@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman) writes:
>>=>[Jake] died in the vet hospital. (This is what they kept flashing back to;
    [...]   
>>No no no no no no...
>>Jake was dying throughout the entire movie.  The movie was what was going on
>>in Jake's mind while he was dying.  Louie explained it to Jake;  he said that
    [...]
>No no no no no NO...
>Jake [thank you]'s "dream" lasted for years and years...
>
    [...]

Hey you two!  You're both right!
Actually Jake's "dream"  covers only a few weeks, months at most, 
not years.  But even so, there's nothing to say that he isn't
living out the purgatory phase in a sort of expanded time sense
while he's dying over the course of a few minutes or hours.  This in
fact is what is happening.  That's why the final death scene in
the medic tent (*not* a vet hospital) comes at the very end, and
not at the beginning.  It's no coincidence that he's pronounced
dead in a "flashback" immediately after the culkinator gets him.  

>Louie himself [I am assuming Louie was the Ladder researcher, discard this
>paragraph entirely if that is wrong] was also dead. I believe that him
>explaining to Jake about the "Ladder" drug vindicated both of them; Louie
>gets it off his chest and can go off to the afterlife, while Jake starts
>to figure out what's going on.
>
   The problem with Louie, or whoever, is most unfortunate, since
   he's a construct included for no other purpose than to provide
   the feebleminded with a concrete explanation.  He's then
   placed in the background at points throughout the dream so 
   that his presence later seems natural.  It's hard to
   explain his grating performance in terms of the rest of the
   story, since he shouldn't be there in the first place.  That
   entire 10 minutes with Louie giving us a melodramatic, over-
   acted explanation, conflicts painfully with the marvelously 
   ambiguous sense of the movie as we've seen it to that point.
   I don't know whether I would go so far as to delete out the
   pivotal scene where we see who is bayonetting Jake, but that's
   all the explanation that's needed for what has happened.

   Whether he, or for that matter, Jake's fellows that Jake
   encounters in his dream, are dead and are independent of
   Jake, rather than a figment of his dream, is really irrelevant. 
   Their presence, and what happens to them, is significant only as
   one of the alternatives that Jake may choose from.  You wouldn't
   after all suggest that his wife was a part of his dream because
   *she* was dying.
   
   Other than those minor details, good interpretation, Kinsman.

   Wayne  (all IMO, of course)



Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
From: ramon@convex.com (Ramon Dominguez)
Subject: Re: Jacobs Ladder
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:27:47 GMT
Organization: The Arts Babblative and Scribblative
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Dec29.020157.11546@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> kinsman@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Aphoriel/Kinsman) writes:
=>[Jake] died in the vet hospital. (This is what they kept flashing back to;
=>the ending scene reveals that MC was dead all along throughout the movie.)
=>[Jake] spends several years in purgatory, or more precisely a semi-hell for
=>people whose afterlife fates are undecided.

No no no no no no...

Jake was dying throughout the entire movie.  The movie was what was going on
in Jake's mind while he was dying.  Louie explained it to Jake;  he said that
dying people who attempted to hold onto life were tormented by demons until
they let go.


-- 
Ramon Dominguez             | "Work is the curse of the drinking class"       
Convex Computer Corporation |                            --Oscar Wilde
ramon@convex.com            | "Ceci n'est pas une .signature file"
From: gandalf@sku.lost.com
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Stephen King: Dark Tower Series
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:43:00 GMT
Organization: Stephen King College, New Castle
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnala.fnal.gov


	I was wondering if anyone knows when Stephen King will publish the 
	next book(s) in the DarkTower series?

							Steve Baginski
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879)
Subject: Re: S. King Ka-Ka
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 08:18:38 GMT


>	Help!  I am now reading THE WASTE LANDS by SK and in this book King 
>mentions something called "ka".  it has been awhile sense I read THE 
>DRAWING OF THE THREE and I have forgotten the meaning of "ka". If anyone
>could help[ me out it would be greatly appreciated.


Ka is soul/karma/whatever.  It's not like Stevie even knows what he's
talking about.  Apparently it's also FATE, or whatever.  It's like a
big evil plan that the universe has no choice but to follow.
 
Aren't you glad you know now?  Don't you feel better?
 
                                        Nik

Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
From: donnell@eel.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan)
Subject: Re: The Culkinator! Was: Re: JACOBs LADDER
Organization: none
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 00:56:06 GMT

In article <1gt03oINNgrd@bigboote.WPI.EDU> drwho@riemann.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.040923.14174@vlsi.polymtl.ca> d40937@aiken (Jean Yves Desbiens) writes:
>>
>>Can't be more right, wow is he a dud. Home alone I, god was it
>>predictable, it was barely good enough to be mediocre; only the
>>bandits made me stay till the end, I wanted them to kill the little
>>bastard. 
>
>Ok... the movie was predictable and mediocre, therefore kill the actor...
>I still don't get it.
>
>>Jean-Yves Desbiens                  | d40937@info.polymtl.ca
>The Amazing Tubeman!,         # --Woody Allen's "Bride of Frankemstein",

Culkin no longer exists as an actual being. With all the media attention,
and press, and TV/Movie appearances, he only truly exists in the realm
of Media. This is evil and must be stopped. But his death would probably
lead to a pre-pube James Dean cult springing up that would be a nuisance
for decades to come.
Only the media can kill this monster. Given his lack of talent, it is only a
matter of time. 

Happy Holidays!
Pax
					--Judex--

Xref: sparky alt.horror:5429 rec.arts.movies:36457
From: cr663@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Schloss)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Jacobs Ladder
Date: 3 Jan 1993 02:44:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.  I'm going to have to rent
Jacob's lLadder again.
Xref: sparky alt.horror:5416 rec.arts.movies:36250
From: sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Eskinder Sahle)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Jacobs Ladder
Date: 29 Dec 92 07:30:37 GMT
Followup-To: alt.horror
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

In article <1992Dec27.162926.7638@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> tfisher@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Tom Fisher) writes:

>The very basis of this movie is ridiculous and assinine.  This movie is
>not based on a dream.  It *IS* a dream.  And, consequently, *ANYTHING* goes!
>No rules, no logic, nothing has to make sense.  This movie was a total
>waste of my time.
>
>Tom

Geewiz!  I thought the movie was first class!  I mean, since when did a
movie have to "make sense" for it to be good?  I really thought it was
a very refreshing change from your run-of-the-mill stupid American movie 
with the tediously predictable happy, see-how-you-HAVE-got-your-money's-worth,
clear-cut, logical, and very sensical ending.  Talk about a waste of
time: an ending that disgusted me and just made me give up on American
movies was that movie with what's his name Tom Cruise (I think) in that
movie about an Irish (or Scottish, or I don't know what) immigrant.
Talk about a waste of time, and just a condescending ending: there's
a ridiculously empty-headed, mercantile ending that just slighted my
intelligence and made me groan. 

Ahmed
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: eng10314@nusunix1.nus.sg (WU JUAN JUAN)
Subject: horror
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:02:49 GMT

this is scary !
From: fields@aludra.usc.edu (Canis)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Heart of Midnight (minor spoilers)
Followup-To: alt.horror.werewolves
Date: 29 Dec 1992 17:12:32 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Keywords: werewolf, Ravenloft

In article <1992Dec29.154002.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> berry@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>HAS ANY ONE STARTED REAFING THE RAVENLOFT NOVELS,FROM TSR. THE BOOK HEART 
>OF MIDNIGHT IS ABOUT WEREWOLVES.
> GIVE ME YOUR INSIGHT INTO THE BOOK,IAM A FAN OF WEREWOLVES AND THE HORROR
>GENRE
>

Well, since you asked so nicely <grin>.

I haven't quite finished the book yet - only about 3/4 of the way done - 
but I can tell you that it's not exactly the best werewolf book I've ever
read. Like all Ravenloft novels, the setting is in the demiplane of 
Gothic horror, and the main character, Casimir, is the werewolf in 
question. He's a natural lycanthrope (meaning that he inherited his
lycanthropy) and, at first, is able to keep his "dark, wolfen side" (feh!)
in check. The more he uses his abilities, though, the less control he
is able to maintain, especially when he accepts one of the local baddies
as his mentor. 

As a werewolf story, it's not *too* bad. J. Robert King (the author) gives
the reader some insight into the trials and tribulations of being a 
werewolf. However, it's nothing anyone in this newsgroup probably hasn't
read before - typical descriptions of senses being heightened, the loss
of control in full-wolf form, etc. But what disappoints me is that there
seems to be so little of it, for a werewolf book. _Heart of Midnight_
reads as if the author was trying to work with too many subplots, and the
werewolf aspect was left behind. I suppose that's because Casimir wasn't
all too eager to be a werewolf in the first place (silly boy! ;-). But
there wasn't much substance to the story. Even the attempt to cure Casimir 
wasn't done very well. What I did enjoy was the dialogue; the poetry and 
songs (some of them, anyway), and the bantering that goes on at the 
meistersinger contest. And of course, what little werewolfery there was 
<sharptooth grin>.

In essence, _Heart of Midnight_ is a fairly predictable werewolf novel
that, on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd tentatively give about a "4". And just
for comparison, I would give Robert McCammon's _The Wolf's Hour_ a 
solid "10".

Hopefully, the last 75 pages or so will be better. ;-)

						-Lanny.

Lanny Fields
fields@aludra.usc.edu
Canis


"To were is wolfen, to forgive, lupine."
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: osiris@crash.cts.com (James Lanaghan)
Subject: Re: Role Playing, anyone?
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:20:02 GMT

In <1992Dec21.144117.23381@udel.edu> sandler@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sandman) writes:

>I have just started playing in a game of "WereWolf" (same people who make
>Vampire and Ars Magica) and it is, so far, really good.

Werewolf the Apocalypse is a great game.  Though I must admit I am more of a
Vampire fan, and use Werewolves as NPC's in my stories.
--
 \       oo     //////////////////////////////////////////     oo      /
   \____|\mm    //J. Michael Lanaghan  //     Crash     //    mm/|____/
   // //\ \_\   // Internet Address:   //  San Diego,CA //   /_/ /\\ \\
  /K-9/  \/_/   //osiris@crash.cts.com //  619/569-4072 //   \_\/  \K-9\
 /___/_____\    //////////////////////////////////////////    /_____\___\ 
 -----------                                                  -----------
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: sandler@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sandman)
Subject: Re: Role Playing, anyone?
Organization: Lab Rats
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:41:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.125140.2199@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_coolidgejs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>Well, I'll be out for the next four weeks or so for the Christmas holidays, so
>I'll probably not be able to log on.  I thus hate to pose any questions right
>now, because I'll never get to see the answers.  None-the-less, here's one.
>
>Does any of you out there role play?  If so, what rule changes have you made in
>the major RPGs (particularly AD&D) to accomodate werewolves?  In general, I
>find existing role-playing game ways of handling lycanthropy far too reliant on
>the silver bullet/full moon routines.  Not that I dislike the game
>systems--just their way of lycanthropy.  GURPS terms shapeshifters "weres." 
>The word "were" means, of course, "man," so the misnomer gets to me. 
>"Lycanthrope" is a little better as a word for shape shifters, but it really
>means "wolf+man."  "Were-creature" seems to be the best word choice I have
>found.

I have just started playing in a game of "WereWolf" (same people who make
Vampire and Ars Magica) and it is, so far, really good.

I always like morphotic creature for the generic (of course this does
not require the creature to have a human form or be limited by 
set forms).  I still think Werewolf is the way to go because most of
the others are just playing off the WW legends and don't really
exist (except dragons, but there are only very very few who are left 
these days)
From: logerius@psykoman.cs.hut.fi (Lord Logerius of Angmar)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: Role Playing, anyone?
Date: 25 Dec 92 22:30:02 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: psykoman.cs.hut.fi

In <osiris.724972802@crash.cts.com> osiris@crash.cts.com (James Lanaghan) writes:
>In <1992Dec21.144117.23381@udel.edu> sandler@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sandman) writes:
>>I have just started playing in a game of "WereWolf" (same people who make
>>Vampire and Ars Magica) and it is, so far, really good.

>Werewolf the Apocalypse is a great game.  Though I must admit I am more of a
>Vampire fan, and use Werewolves as NPC's in my stories.

 Yes,so am I,on my first adventure I (Vampire,of Assamite clan)
got to go for some werewolf bashing,yup,got my silver bullets with me and all.

  Got 5 of them before they got me,pretty good I think for 
my first wolf hunt,nasty critters got to admit,a worthy foe.

 Werewolf and Vampire are both really good games,WW maybe
even more.. 

> \       oo     //////////////////////////////////////////     oo      /
>   \____|\mm    //J. Michael Lanaghan  //     Crash     //    mm/|____/
>   // //\ \_\   // Internet Address:   //  San Diego,CA //   /_/ /\\ \\
>  /K-9/  \/_/   //osiris@crash.cts.com //  619/569-4072 //   \_\/  \K-9\
> /___/_____\    //////////////////////////////////////////    /_____\___\ 
> -----------                                                  -----------

--
                                                                       
   Patrick Buchert                      Helsinki University of Technology
    pbuchert@hut.fi                      Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
     logerius@hut.fi
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: berry@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: NEWS
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:40:02 GMT

HAS ANY ONE STARTED REAFING THE RAVENLOFT NOVELS,FROM TSR. THE BOOK HEART 
OF MIDNIGHT IS ABOUT WEREWOLVES.
 GIVE ME YOUR INSIGHT INTO THE BOOK,IAM A FAN OF WEREWOLVES AND THE HORROR
GENRE

Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: berry@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: HEART OF MIDNIGHT
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:34:43 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: sandler@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sandman)
Subject: Re: Role Playing, anyone?
Organization: Lab Rats
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:03:01 GMT

In article <osiris.724972802@crash.cts.com> osiris@crash.cts.com (James Lanaghan) writes:
>>I have just started playing in a game of "WereWolf" (same people who make
>>Vampire and Ars Magica) and it is, so far, really good.
>
>Werewolf the Apocalypse is a great game.  Though I must admit I am more of a
>Vampire fan, and use Werewolves as NPC's in my stories.

We played a V-game to its logical conclusion (not all of us final-deathed but
all of us fleeing from town [what was left of it] with no reason to go back)

We might pull out the chars again some day... but not today.

We have just started a WW game and are having a blast with it..