HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dxo@cs.bham.ac.uk (David Oakley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Do an RFD: comp.sys.atari.st.advocacy
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:57:33 GMT
Organization: ASTRAsoft, Stoke-On-Trent England.

There seems to be growing concensus that we need to get an advocacy group for the
st. I've thrown together the following letter, so please mail me with your
opinions and if they're positive then I'll formally post it on
news.announce.newgroups.

If you'd like to add your name to the Proposers, let me know also.

Thanks,

David.
                                                                   .___ .
David Oakley, ASTRAsoft shareware producers for the ST            //_ //|
6 Watlands Rd   | "I was in love, once. A ZX81. People said,      || || |
Bignall End     | 'No, Holly, she's not for you.' She was cheap,  || || /\_
Stoke On Trent  | stupid and wouldn't load - at least not for   _/|| ||\_/ |
ST7 8QQ England.| me, anyway."			     Red Dwarf |_/ |_| \_|/

===============================================================================
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
======================

This is a request for discussion on the creation of a newsgroup for
debates about the Atari ST personal computer.

Group Name
==========
comp.sys.atari.st.advocacy

Status
======
Unmoderated

Rationale
=========
This group will separate a section of discussion from the current
newsgroup comp.sys.atari.st.

The discussion of advocacy currently takes up over 50% of the items
in the atari.st newsgroup and so it is felt that the original
purpose of the newsgroup is being left behind.

New users and people who need information about the Atari ST can
continue to use the original group and would hopefully get more
attention if there is less advocacy mail present.

What a FAQ for this group could contain is also a matter for
discussion.

Discussion
==========
Comments on this proposed new newsgroup should be posted to the USENET
newsgroup news.groups.  If the reader is not able to do so, comments may
be e-mailed to any of the proposers, at the addresses below, and we will 
post them.

Voting
======
If no problems arise, voting will start one month from the posting date
of this RFD.

Proposers
=========
David Oakley		dxo@cs.bham.ac.uk
Ian M Rae		imr@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:04:11 EST
From: <CRA103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: ****************FOR SALE

I still have MVG (Multi Viewer Graphicia) left....It is a fantastic program tha
t inables you to read PCX,IMG,MAC,WAC and other graphics formats for the st-ste
 series.... and many powerful tools are used in it too! (a must have for anyone
 that works with graphics... HIgh rez that is )....

I also have WICO joysticks for sale....

if you are interested please mail me....Cra103@psuvm.psu.edu


   Once I thought I was wrong, but then I found out I was mistaken.
   ================================================================
                                                 -Scott


   ====================================================================
From: dlk0ms9s@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Yes, SXs are dogs
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:13:35 EST
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <1993Jan21.200036.21859@microsoft.com>, darekm@microsoft.com (Darek Mihocka) writes:
> In article <18JAN93.17454267@cc4.crl.aecl.ca> csullogg@cc4.crl.aecl.ca writes:
>>I have a 386 @ 40 MHz with an AMAZING SVGA monitor - it sits idle
>>while I run Pagestream or Calamus on my 8 MHz MegaST. Why, because
>>I have struggled to find well priced, easy to use PC software with
>>a consistent user interface that does not consume 200 MBytes of
>>disk space to do the type of work I do on my ST so effortlessly
>>and I could not.
> 
> So bag the ST altogether and spend $229 on the Gemulator. It will
> allow you to run your Pagestream and take advantage of the VGA
> graphics as well. You can't do that on an ST at any cost other than
> of course blowing more bucks on a Falcon or TT just to get better
> graphics.
> 
> - Darek

   Not to flame, but there is nothing liek the real thing...  And at $229, w/o
ROMS, I could get another Ste...

Mark Santora

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: nino@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Marinos Yannikos)
Subject: Re: RayShade on Atari?
Organization: TU Wien, Vienna, Austria
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:50:47 GMT

alien@clinet.fi (Risto Juvonen) writes:
: doucet@ripolin.laas.fr (Jean-Etienne Doucet) writes:
: >PoV is on the cover disk of the Feb'93 issue of the (French) STart Micro Mag.
: >I haven't tried it, all I know is that 2 Megs are required.
: 
:  What's PoV? What I can do with it? Modeller?
:

POV (Persistance Of Vision) is a very sophisticated raytracing program,
which is based on the old DKB raytracer (I think). It generated several
file formats (targa, ppm(?), raw, .dmp), and is perhaps the most complex
although not the slowest raytracer you can get for free. It can even
map GIFs on surfaces etc.

-MY

PS: I've been asked to send the original distribution and diffs to
	atari.archive, I'll see what I can do... I could also upload
	ca. 6Mb of zoo-ed .raw pictures (24 bit 320x200) that can
	be displayed with Photochrome - these were generated from the
	sample 'scene' files that come with POV.
From: gt1448b@prism.gatech.EDU (David P. Forrai)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Flaky monochrome display on Mega STE
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:00:07 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I recently bought a Sony CPD-1302 multiscan so for the first time of
my Atari ownership I have high resolution capabilities.  I have been
using monochrome often and have noticed that on occassion the screen
will shift to the left and have 7 vertical black lines evenly spaced
accross the screen.  This will go away after a reboot or a few
minutes.  I turned off the monitor, waited a few seconds, then turned
it back on and the display was the same.  So I assume it is not the
monitor but the Mega STE.  Is this a known bug in the Mega STE?

-- 
David P. Forrai
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt1448b
Internet: gt1448b@prism.gatech.edu
From: anisko@usdtsg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (anisko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: message authors
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:37:24 GMT
Reply-To: anisko@usdtsg.UUCP ()
Organization: NCR Corporation, Dayton


   Folks, just a quick suggestion.  Make sure that when you quote someone,
that you leave their name (or at least email address) in the quote.
That way no one gets blamed for someone else's remarks...  Thanks...

				Robert Anisko
				anisko@usdtsg.daytonoh.ncr.com

"there's nothing sure in Life but Death and Texas..." - Kelly Bundy
From: glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon, Falcon who has got a Falcon
Date: 27 Jan 1993 07:42:04 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: falcon.natinst.com

In article <1k56veINNpf7@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> tbrown@cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown) writes:
>
>This is not true for some Local Bus machines.  The Local Bus is wide enough
>to support a graphics card with enough bus leftover to snarf stuff off the
>harddrive at amazing speeds.

	But software (games) can't really be written to use local bus video.
The software (games) vendors need to target the largest maket which is still
(and probably will be for a very long time) video on the ISA bus.  I know
local bus video is software transparent to VGA but the games will be 'timed'
for VGA on the ISA.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now You're Playing With Power Without The Price!"  Glen Sescila   |||
                                                                  / | \
My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer and probably are
exact opposites.	InterNet: glens@natinst.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Commander Brett Maraldo)
Subject: Atari ST and FAX (questions)
Organization: Unit 36 Research, UofWaterloo
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:40:51 GMT


	I really want to get a FAX modem running on my atari.  What is the
best way to go for modems?  Is a 2400 data 9600 fax modem adequate?  Do I
really need a full blown 14.4k FAX modem?  What about software?  I hear
Joppa has good s/w... can someone give me their address and phone number
and relate any experiences with this s/w?  What other s/w opions exists?
Thanks for the help.

brett maraldo
plexus productions


-- 
               --------     Unit 36 Research     ---------
	                "Alien Technology Today"
  	 	      bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca
  	           {uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo
From: 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Re: a blurb
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:51:09 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

> Do you think it would be any different if the ST / Falcon was as popular
>  as the PC ??? Do you think ST/Falcon owners would pirate less?
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> People were trying to say the PC is bad because people pirate stuff on it
>  more than on any other platform.  This would also be true for any other
>  machine that was out in the market in those sort of numbers. Saying the
>  PC is bad for the pirating reason is absolutly stupid!

When I was talking about this, my point was that so many of the la-dee-da-GREAT
clone software that make people want to rave is so expensive that I _know_
there's no way that so many people _could_ buy them all!   Gimme a break!  If I
had a PC I would probably be pissed at the price gouging enough to pirate too! 
$500 or more just to own 3 or 4 nice programs?  I don't think so.

				-Matt
From: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: InterZONE Design
Subject: Re: Fantasy Games
Keywords: rpg
	<wmtwen.727449117@rw8.urc.tue.nl>
	<1993Jan21.103627.21451@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
Reply-To: cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:50:38 EST

In <1993Jan21.103627.21451@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, Richard Syratt  writes:
> In article <wmtwen.727449117@rw8.urc.tue.nl>, wmtwen@rw8.urc.tue.nl (Erlend Nagel) writes:
> |> cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth) writes:
> |> 
> |> >I just finished Omega a few weeks ago...  It's a characters-only
> |> >fantasy-oriented game, like NetHack.  Way cool...
> |> FINISHED Omegaaaaaaa???!!!?????
> |> Surely you have not become Guild Master of all the guilds yet?
> |> At least it can't be done with just one character, you will need to play
> |> the game at least twice or so.

I know I'm replying to the wrong guy, but Erlend's message never showed
up here.

You finish Omega by becoming an Adept, not by becoming leader of all the
Guilds...  When I became an Adept, I was ArchMage of the Collegium,
Justicar of the Paladins, and High Preist of Athena.

The Adept's Challenge is the last obstacle to becoming a True Winner in
Omega...  After I finished that, I didn't have any other quests to do,
so I retired.  ;-)
-- 
-------------------========================================-------------------
Chris Herborth
cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: wmagro@uiuc.edu (William Magro)
Subject: Re: How to format 720k MFM (Mac disks) under apple file exchange?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:35:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.005407.15198@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>  writes:
>	Can someone tell me the trick to format 720k MFM disks under Apple 
>File exchange? Thanks.
>
>Later.......
>
The trick was to click on the disk icon when presented with the disk  
format dialog box.  I tried it and it works.  Under system 7, however the  
feature has been (apparently) removed.
--
William Magro                                       NeXTMail welcome
wmagro@uiuc.edu
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Distribution: tp
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.10 Rev. Dec 15 1992
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: I *LIKE* Malibu
	<H.ea.SHDogsnf7xs@yonder.equinox.gen.nz>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:00:06 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <H.ea.SHDogsnf7xs@yonder.equinox.gen.nz> craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz
	(Craig Shore) writes:
	
	<concerning kill files>

>How do you do that on the ST??? I'm using Hermes, and from what I can
> tell, you have to do it manually?!

	Use nn.


-- 
		 John Henders
		 Vancouver,BC
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: kfason@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Kevin Fason)
Subject: Omega Grotesque Finished
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 09:49:55 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

I just got my hands on the Omega Grotesque Finished Demo.  It is the
grotesque but with bug fixes acoording to the author, and some other neat things
at the end of it when the scroller goes down.  Anyway's, I will put it at 
atari.archive tomorrow, as Its 2:50am my time, and I have to meet my parents in
6 hours...bummer...

Could the author send me mail?  I'd like to talk to you.  I remember you putting
a message that you put it for FTP, we talked b4, but I lost your address.  
thanx!  C ya!
-KF
From: avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl (Annius Groenink)
Subject: Re: Profibuch (was Julian Reschke involved...)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:18:46 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

In <8701@charon.cwi.nl> jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen) writes:

>
>Right! Not to mention all countries who's inhabitants don't speak German
>but *do* speak (or at least can read) English.
>
>And besides, doesn't computer jargon write much easier in English in the
>first place! It took me some context switching to figure out that the
>German word "speigern" means "to store in memory" although that's
>not the fault of the German language but more of my limited knowledge of
>the language :).
>
>Jan van der Steen (anyway a profibuch owner)

I'm sure you're copy of the profibuch is in Dutch!  Which I find striking
considering the current discussion.  I mean THAT wasn't necessary AT ALL!
But it seemed that there was enough of a market to do that.  For your
information, Holland has 15 million inhabitants, and hardly any other people
on the world (OK, another 30 million?) read Dutch.



-- 
Annius V. Groenink           -- phone (private):      +31 5700 29396
Mathematics/Computer Science -- e-mail (university):  avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl
University of Utrecht        --
Netherland                   -- ZFC Computing, Deventer (same phone)
From: Vincent_Partington@p15.f202.n281.z2.fidonet
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: MultiTOS on 68000
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 93 15:10:42 +0100
Reply-To: p15.f202.n281.z2.fidonet!Vincent_Partington@nextjk.wlink.nl
Distribution: world
X-FSC-PID: LED 1.00

In a message of <Sat 16 Jan 93 11:42>, boris (2:281/202.0) writes:

 b> To the guy what complained about the falcon being a vedio/music
 b> machine. A falcon has the capability and NOW in development for it is
 b> SOFTWARE to link two machines for use as VIDEOPHONES. The machine
 b> itself can handle voice mail with no more additional software than a
 b> cheap modem. It  does TRUE multi-tasking unlike the PC and amiga which
 b> time-shares.

Hi Boris,

I'm a great fan of Atari too, you could even call me an Atari chearleader,
I don't care, but what do you mean by saying the Falcon does TRUE
multitasking an the Pc and amiga only time-share? The Falcon also only has
1 CPU, so what are you talking about? The difference between pre-empritve
and cooperative multitasking? Thank god MultiTOS is pre-emptive. I work
quite alot with Mac's (Multifinder & System 7) and everything goes nice and
well until you run some program that doesn't give other
processes any time. Goodbye "multitasking"!
And they don't even decent inter-process-communication. MultiTOS has lots
of those features, even old TOS had them (appl_write/appl_read)

Ta!
    Vincent

FidoNet : 2:281/202.15
NeST    : 90:500/202.15
Usenet  : vincent@nextjk.wlink.nl

--- MARSmail v1.20/4D
 * Origin: Verloor m'n koekje in de disco (discotheek) (2:281/202.15)
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Re: PC VS ST
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:54:57 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

cherborth@semprini.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Chris Herborth) writes:

>> For around $300? Good luck.

>I don't care, but I'm sure I were to blow a few minutes looking through
>Computer Shopper, I could see a DSP board for $300.

Go on then.  We're all standing here waiting for you to either do that,
or stick your other foot in your mouth.


>The Falcon is underpowered/overpriced... oh, I said that already.  A
>few times an article, I think...

Because you keep ignoring the DSP.

I understand you.  If the Falcon didn't have the DSP, I wouldn't by it.
It would be underpowered and overpriced.


--
Warwick
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            |||||| AMS = GNUized              |
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,   ||||||   Atari Machine-Specific   |
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    _// || \\_   C++ game library       |
_____ v ____ Brisbane, Australia. ______ |_/  ||  \_| ________________________|
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: PD Spreadsheets
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:55:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

I did have a PD spreadsheet, but was not very impressed.  If you can
get hold of UK mags, then February's Atari ST User magazine has
Micro-office Professional Spreadsheet on the cover, instructions in
the mag, and they'll also sell you the full manual for pounds 7-50.

ST Format had Kuma's old spreadsheet offering on the front some months
back, and do a back issue service, so you could also get that.

Cheers,

Chris Price

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3DB, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ken@isgtec.com (Ken Newman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: STalker vs Uniterm?
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:41:53 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

In article <3_800_842_fidonet2b57bb25@Kralizec.fido.zeta.org.au> michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith) writes:
> Except that flash is grostically incompatible,

English contains no such word, what language is this? :) Flash is
incompatible with what? Again this is not English, being an incomplete
sentence. Maybe Flash doesn't work on a TT, I don't know, but I also
don't care, not having a TT.

> and Uniterm, whilst I like it
> very much, is too uncomfortable to use (and can only talk to the first
> serial port).

Now there's a logical analysis - whatever an uncomfortable term program 
is...

> STalker comes with a version of
> the TMail ANSI font, which looks _really_good_... 

Somehow I doubt that what you call really good is at all related to
what I do... in mono you can probably get a fair font at less than
8x16, but that 8-bit width just can't be shrunk much.

> and if you have a halfway
> decent screen accelerator (NVDI or Warp9) it will pretty well keep up with
> 9600 on an ST, something that Flash doesn't seem to all that well.

Sigh. Why do people say stuff like this? Right now I'm using vi through
Flash 1.6 at 19200 baud, and screen redrawing is excellent. I also 
use Quick ST, which I hear is not as fast as Warp9. BTW, I tried STalker
with the same Quick ST, and it was still the slowest vt100 emulation
I've ever seen. Do you even use vt100 termcaps on a Unix system?

> If you only have an ST, use Uniterm, you don't have the speed or need for
> anything more.

Or Flash 1.6.

> If you have a Mega STe, an accelerated ST, or a TT,

use Flash 1.6 :)

> use either STalker
> (whose VT100 is pretty good when you set it up right,

hah! unless you don't want lines over 80 chars displayed correctly.

> CoNnect, which is as close to flawless as I have ever seen a
> terminal emulator get.

Does it have an editable capture buffer with word wrap? Is it as fast
as Flash 1.6?


I get the feeling a lot of people use term programs to just dial up
bulletin boards in TTY mode, without ever using a real editor or
something that requires vt100, and then telling me about vt100 emulation.

--

ken@isgtec.com   [ ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!ken ]  Ken Newman
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Christopher Mauritz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Re: PC VS ST
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:32:42 GMT
Organization: Ritz International, Inc. -- Import/Export Consultants
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Peter Kocourek (qsi@contrast.wlink.nl) wrote:
OS/2> Chris Herborth wrote in a message on 17 Jan 93 to All
OS/2> 
OS/2>  CH> I guess you've never played with a Quadra then... We've got 
OS/2>  CH> Q700s in the computer store at U of Waterloo; courtesy of System 
OS/2>  CH> 7, it feels about as fast as my ST. Naturally, it'll crunch 
OS/2>  CH> numbers faster, but it doesn't feel any faster. I can just 
OS/2>  CH> imagine sys 7 on slower macs... yikes!
OS/2> 
OS/2> My experiences running System 7 are quite different: I am running it on a
OS/2> Mac IIsi, and to me, it does feel a lot faster than my old ST. Your
OS/2> mileage may vary.

I'm running System 7 on a Quadra 950 (68040 @33mhz) and it is definitely
faster than my old 1040ST with rainbow TOS. :-)

I also run OS/2 on my 486 box and it is also faster than my old
1040ST by a long shot.

I'll be honest with you, I've never used a TT or Falcon, but I
cannot imagine that either surpases current Mac/PC clone speed.
Unless an Atari computer can beat the current PC/Mac lock on
price/performance, they are just toys.

Cheers,

Chris

--
Christopher Mauritz                 | My views reflect those of my
ritz@ritz.mordor.com                | company since I own the company.
{backbone}!rutgers!spcvxb!ritz!ritz | Ritz International, Inc.
OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2 OS/2  | Import/Export Consultants
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st