From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Subject: Re: In respect of Suzanne 
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:21:42 GMT

From article by gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga):
> <1993Jan6.233209.3096@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>><1992Dec30.003444.7408@netcom.com>, by gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga):
>>> <1992Dec22.182521.8808@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>>>>(Speaking of cowards, you know, I really do have a hard time understanding
>>>> this cultural widespread fear of babies!)
>>> 
>>> I have to admit that I don't like being around kids in general.  I refuse
>>> to babysit for anyone unless I have full corporal authority.  
>>
>>What does "full corporal authority" mean?   A whack on the behind?
>>Several whacks?  A fat lip?  A black eye?  Broken legs?  Cigarette burns?
>>Capital punishment?
> 
> Basically it means be authorized to use physical force to insure proper
> behavior - spankings and slapped hands.  

Well, let me be the first to burst your bubble and inform you that even
physical force will not insure proper bahavior in some, even many, kids.


> I find your characterization of
> me as a child-beater to be extremely rude and uncalled for.

Gordon, Gordon.  I was not charactarizing you as a child-beater. 
I was demonstrating how vague your choice of wording was.


>>Well, I know these are extreme, but speaking as a parent, I find your
>>term extremely *vague*!
> 
> Then you won't ask me to babysit (get the idea).

Yeah, yeah I got it.  I just chose to address a different point.

 
>>> So far no
>>> one's taken me up on it. ;-)  
>>
>>I'm not surprised!  Perhaps you should explain yourself more clearely.
> 
> You missed the idea.

No.  I just wanted to show you how you might be unwittingly portraying 
yourself to your parent friends.

 
>>> Most children are smelly, 
>>
>>All those diapers just like you once needed yourself, Gordon, which somebody
>>else changed for you.
> 
> It doesn't make them any less smelly.

Well, it certainly makes them more deserving of being uncomplainingly changed.
And just another plug - the smell of the diapers of breastfed babies is far
less offensive than the smell of the diapers of formula fed babies.


>>> noisy 
>>
>>All that laughing, crying, yelling, singing, gleeful squeals, general life
>>stuff.  (Disgusting, ain't it.)
> 
> It can be very stressful.

Yeah, life is stressful.  That's why they call death "eternal rest".
Yet the only alternative to life is death, as pro-"choicers" so aptly
tell us every day.


>>> and messy.
>>
>>All those wet kisses, tears when you hurt their feelings, noses they
>>haven't quite got the hang of blowing yet, mud pie gifts they try to
>>make you eat, and bubble baths that somehow soak the whole bathroom.
>>The sweetness life is made of.
> 
> I can understand the kisses, to a point (kids will put *anything* in their
> mouths - I don't really want to deal with that).  But how can you possibly
> find "sweet[ness]" in blowing someone else's nose for them, 

The joy is in helping someone too weak to help themselves.


> or eating mud,

I don't eat the mud, but I do thank them profusely for their thoughtful
gift.   I pretend to drink the soapy bathwater in the teacup, and enjoy the
company thoroughly.  I _have_ eaten pre-chewed grapes and said thank you too.


> or having to have your hardwood floor replaced because junior misbehaved?

Not knowing any better is __not__ "misbehaving".   And we have tile, so we
just towel it up.


>>> Not unlike a lot of my friends in general, but at least I can tell them to
>>> go home.
>>
>>You and your wife are missing out on quite alot by having aborted your
>>child, Gordon.
> 
> What are my wife and I missing out on because my ex-wife and I got an
> abortion 9 years ago?  

Excuse me, but in your reference to your abortion a month or so ago, you said
"wife" not "ex-wife", and you did not date the event.   I had no idea you were
on your second go-round.


> I mean, exactly what are we missing?  

The life and love of that child.


> We love
> each other - We spend *HUGE* amounts of time together (and it's never
> enough) - We go places - Buy gifts for each other 

None of which you'd have to lose if you'd had your child.


> (it's amazing how
> much money you have left over when you are not trying to over-populate
> the earth), 

Gordon, you and your wife couldn't over-populate the earth if you tried.


> and generally are having the times of our lives with no
> regrets.

Sure.  This is a different wife.  What has she to regret?    (I wonder if
without the abortion you'd still be with your first wife...)

 
> You're not claiming to be able to read my mind again, are you?  Or did you
> somehow earn a degree in psychology when I wasn't looking?

Gordon, all I did was state that you are missing quite alot by having aborted
your child.   I am doing nothing but speaking from experience.



> Gordon

Suzanne.