Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
From: tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh)
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:45:44 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Aug21.060239.23144@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.232710.14966@husc3.harvard.edu> tloh@husc8.harvard.edu
>(Teck Loh) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug21.002550.2783@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>>...
>>>Well.  Gee.
>>>What exactly could Mr. Chua mean by "tragic turn if Japan..." and
>>>"severe misunderstandings..."?  <sarcasm on>  Like duh.  I haven't
>>>a clue.  <sarcasm off>
>>>Come on, Mr. Chua, we both know what you mean.  You don't like
>>>Japan's enlarging role as peacekeeper in the region, and you don't
>>>like Japan flexing it's military might overseas.  You think that Japan
>>>just might grab some land.
>>>But what I'm saying is that's where you are wrong.  Japan is among the
>>>least likely of any nation in Asia to wield its military forces to
>>>injure another nation.
>>>As for your original posting, I read it a couple of times, in great
>>>disbelief.  Don't try to portray Japan and China as being on
>>>morally equivalent ground and that both have pluses and minuses.
>>>China is far worse.
>>>You should admit that no land where there is a majority of Chinese-cu
>>>is there a democracy in the sense of the ideals of the Bill of
>>>Rights.  That includes Singapore.  If a country, like China,
>>>has both un-democractic values and ominous military forces, then that
>>>country poses the greatest danger for "severe misunderstanding".
>>
>>I think you are confused with the different chinese groups that are involved in
>>WWII. There are four groups which I can think of:
>>1. Mainland chinese 2. Taiwanese  3. oversea chinese that are directly affected
>>by the war. 4. Oversea chinese that are not directly affected. I believe that
>>malaysian chinese belongs to group 3.
>
>What kind of crap is this?
>
>The "overseas Chinese" are _not_ Chinese.  They are Americans, French, etc.
>I just "love" it when a Chines-cu twit lumps them all under the label
>Chinese.  Long ago, Koreans were Chinese-ge.  Ever further back, Koreans
>were African-ge.  But then, a Chinese-cu can't understand, can he?
>
>By the way, some Taiwanese would be insulted because you, Mr. Loh, insisted
>that they are Chinese.

What kind of crap are you talking about? Trying to group chinese into various
defined groups! I don't think you know the oversea chinese in Malaysia. 
According to your definition, which group do they belong to? Genetically, they
are mostly pure chinese (not much intermarriage between other races). Curturally they maybe 95% chinese and 5% Malay or even 100% chinese. Your definition
of chinese (which you strongly think that it belongs to the mainland chinese) isabsurd.  Not only that you have insulted the taiwanese by saying that they
are not chinese, you have also insulted me by refering me as a "chinese-cu". 
Therefore, I strongly advise you to stop using the term chinese-ge or 
chinese-cu because it is wrong to group chinese into distinct groups.
>>As the Japanese were having war with the
>>mainland chinese, oversea chinese was the main target during the war. Without
>>being able to defend themselves, thousands or million (??) of them has been
>>killed, tortured, rape,etc.
>
>That is bad.
>
>At least as bad is the 100 million people killed by the Chinese.
>Some of them were baby girls strangled by their Chinese paretns.
>
>The Chinese have _never_ offered an apology for what they did.
>

 Neither have i  say that I support what the mainland chinese did to
their own people nor the American soldiers did to the Vietnamese.We are 
talking about the crime and atrocity committed by the Japanese soldiers.
Please focus on the topic of discussion. Comparing two bad boys and 
saying that one is better is just an excuse.
>>Is it so bad to ask for an apology if one of your
>>friends or relative was affected?  I don't think you understand the sentiment
>>of this group.
>
>I don't think Mr. Loh understands hypocrisy.
>
>Japan already apologized for the war.  What Chinese-cu twits want is
>for Japan to acknowledge specific details like the specific number
>killed in Nanjing.
>

Tell me when did the Japanese government sincerely apologised. The former
emperor has express deep regret which is different from the word sorry.
We all know that the Emperor was responsible for the war. Remember seeing
in on his favorite white horse.  I think you will be too dumb to not realise
why the Japanese government controled by the old politicians do not dare tO
criticise the Emperor which they considered as "God".

>Before we go so far as to demand this kind of acknowledgement from
>the Japanese, let's demand an apology from the Chinese for the
>100 million that they killed.  Let's demand an apology from the
>Chinese for siding with North Korea to kill American boys during the
>Korean war; North Korea was attempting to seize South Korea by brute force.
>

Please focus on the topic of discussion. We are not demanding apology from
the Japanese people but from their government and most of all their emperor
who his father is responsible for the war.  Remember how the Americans
 know that the emperor was responsible but instead prefer not 
to execute him. 

>In fact, the USA has never asked China for an apology.  Further,
>the Chinese have never once, not _ONCE_, offered an apology
>in an official capacity for the 100 million that the Chinese
>killed, victims including Tibetans, Taiwanese, infant girls, American
>servicemen, etc.
>

Please focus. Remember that we are discussing about the Japanese army atrocitiesand not the crimes committed by the chinese, or the American soldiers in
Vietman. 

>Has anyone even _once_ heard of an official Chinese ceremonial
>in which the Chinese apologized for their brutality?
>

Neither did the Americans for dropping the Atomic bombs in Hiroshima and
Nagasaki.  The main excuse, "it is necessary to end WWII"  The point here is
do the Japanese Emperor need to apologise to the people who has suffered
in WWII. 
>>...
>>As I mentioned above, this group of chinese does not support the action of the
>>communist chinese. The killing of the Tibetans,etc should be another independent discussion.  What you are trying to say is that if the communist chinese does
>>not apologise, why should the japanese.
>
>What I'm saying is that the Chinese are hypocritical savages.  As
>long as Mr. Loh is lumping all the Chinese today (in the way that
>he lumps the Japanese together to take collective responsibility for WWII),
>I'll assume his ignorant reasoning for a few more sentences.
>

Wait a minute. Did I ever say that the all the Japanese should bear 
responsibilities for WWII? Please be sensible. I think that the Emperor
was responsible and he should make a sincere apology to the people who
has suffered due to the atrocities of the Japanese army in WWII. 

>Basically, the Chinese asking for a special apology from the Japanese
>would be like Nazi Germany, just after gasing 6 million Jews, asking for
>an apology from the USA for accidentally bombing a German school yard.
>

Bad analogy!!!! What a stupid statement and you have just insulted millions
of people. Your ignorant reasoning speaks for itself.

>>Nihongun no zankokusa-wa wasurette-wa ikemasen
>>Demo watashitachi-wa urusu koto-ga dekimasu
>
>We must never forget the brutality, ignorance, and savagery with which
>the Chinese killed 100 million people in the 20th century.  We must never
>forget that the Chinese joined North Korea in killing American boys
>about 5 years after the USA had lost millions of lives in the Pacific
>to halt the Japanese advance into China.
>

Please focus on the topic of discussion!!  

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
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Seikatsu no utakasa-wa nan desu ka
Okane dewa arimasen, tadashi koto-o yaru koto!!

T-P Loh