HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: The Queen vs the Queen
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:42:35 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada


A few days ago I heard that the environment ministry (the queen) was suing
the "ministere des travaux publics" (the queen). What an interesting way to
waste tax payers' money...

Anybody have more precise details on this?

--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:31:02 GMT

Marc:
I guess from your sophisticated position of objectivity over
there in Switzerland, we do have such parochial and narrow
interests. We are such colonials -- and bad-taste colonials to
boot -- unlike yourself.

Do you normally like to insult entire nations like that?

Frank.
Xref: sparky can.politics:3615 can.francais:153
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Aboriginal nationalism?
From: kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:49:36 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island
Keywords: oka

In article <1992Apr09.171445.17757@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:

>In article <1992Apr09.035604.10697@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>>In article <1992Apr06.165958.7976@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:

>>What would you do to handle those bands that have never negotiated,
>>let alone signed, a treaty?

>I would seek a resolution at an international tribunal where all
>the documents can be handled.
>If status is sought, then surely the highest court is the place to go.

The "highest court" is only the "place to go" if you accept as fact
that the government (1) wants to resolve the issue in a fair manner,
and (2) wants to obey its own laws. As the Lubicon case has shown,
over and over again, neither appears to be true. The government of
Alberta changed law RETROACTIVELY to prevent the Lubicon from filing a
caveat dealing with land claims - how do you propose the Lubicon deal
with that?

>>and if the government steadfastly refuses to negotiate a treaty, or
>>sets insane limits on the number of land claims permitted to be
>>settled per year? (Did you know that the maximum number of land claims
>>that the government will negotiate at one time is SIX?)     

> In my opinion, now is the time for the aboriginals to win maximum support
>within this country. Push for resolution of these claim conflicts.
>Go to the international bodies.
>This is what they are doing, isn't it.
>And they are succeeding (just look at what happened to James Bay.)

In the case of the Lubicon, even the support of the United Nations
isn't helping any, and the fact that the World Council of Churches
took a positive stand on their behalf also isn't helping any - the
land is still being raped at an unbelievable rate while the Lubicon
are told they do not exist. Some justice.

>>"Six other claims (the maximum that the government will negotiate at
>>any one time) remain unresolved at time of writing [ed note: 1989],
>>and it may be noted that none of them has been on the table for less
>>than ten years. Another nineteen claims have been accepted for
>>negotiation, eight are under review, and anther twenty are expected to
>>be submitted. So, with fifty-three claims either submitted or awaiting
>>access to the process, at the present rate it will take 160 years to
>>resolve these problems." (DRUMBEAT - Anger & Renewal in Indian
>>Country, ISBN 0-929091-03-5)  

> I recognize their frustration and I support their efforts to speed things
>up. What's your point?

One would think that the "point" is obvious - the government isn't
interested in dealing with land claims, only in _appearing_ to deal
with land claims.


-- 
      === The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, Canada ===
Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island via SCO XENIX 2.3.2GT
  Waffle v1.64: (604) 758-9698 HST v32bis   (604) 758-6208 (2400 x 4)
kmcvay%oneb.wimsey.bc.ca@mala.bc.ca  Telebit TB+ For Sale - $400.00 (Firm)
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Cost of Bilingual Packaging
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:25:50 GMT
Organization: Carleton University

In <WARKENT.92Apr10144208@ltisun11.epfl.ch> warkent@ltisun11.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:
>Actually, labels would not only have to be in English but use U.S. measures
>and conform to U.S. regulations on content information.  So yes, it
>would be much cheaper to let the U.S. decide how we measure things,
>what we should know about products, and what claims can be made (juice
>vs "fruit drink", light vs. non-light, etc).  Heck, why not go all
>the way and do away with all Canadian regulations and government services.
>After all, it would be much cheaper just to borrow or rent U.S. ones.

I'm rather surprised to see a statement like this coming from someone in
Europe.  The EEC has been trying to replace national regulations with a
single set of regulations for the entire EEC.  The benefit of doing so is
the elimination of non-tarif barriers to trade since in the past, countries
have frequently created regulations simply to protect domestic industries
and discourage imports.  

It would be nice if we could do the same in North America.  Unfortunately
there are some significant obstacles to this.
   1) Canada uses the metric system but The United States doesn't.
   2) By virtue of its much larger population, the United States would
      dominate the negotiations.  While countries in the EEC vary quite a
      bit in terms of population, no single country is large enough to
      dominate.
-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"My Canada includes Quebec"
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Separation?
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:03:57 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Apr14.031313.26450@bmerh2.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.010038.15969@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>>"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
>>
>>About this campaign of the trucker, in French, it says "Mon Canada comprend 
>>le Que'bec". Direct translation in English: could be "My Canada includes
>>Quebec"  OR "My Canada understands Quebec".
>>The true exact translation should be "Mon Canada INCLUT le Que'bec".
>>
>>Why the words are different in French?
>>Many people think exactly that Canada DOES NOT understand Quebec.
>>Coincidence???
>>
>>Care to comment???
>
>Oui, Sylvain, je veux bien commenter - mais pas exactement a la
>question que tu poses.
>
>Bon, ca fait combien de fois que je me fais mettre sur le nez cet
>anglophone imbecile qui a pietine le drapeau quebecois, comme preuve de
>la mauvaise volonte du Canada envers le Quebec (et cela, meme si la
>majorite des Canadiens ont desapprouve ce geste).
>
>Mais qu'un autre anglophone tente de tendre la main, d'etablir un lien,
>et qu'arrive-t'il?  Certains le voient comme enemi.  Toi, tu critiques
>son geste, parce que tu n'aimes pas sa traduction.  On n'est pas loin,
>meme, d'y voir un complot anglophone pour tromper le Quebec.
>
>Au mieux, ce n'est qu'un geste isole, sans importance.
>
>Penses-y un peu - y'a pas quelque chose qui cloche, la-dedans?

Mouais...

Peut-etre qu'effectivement je suis devenu paranoiaque.

Effectivement, peut-etre que je me mefie de tout ce qui vient du
TROC, en ce qui a trait a nos relations communes et la constitution.

Je t'accorde le but.  1-0 Rheal...   :)

Sylvain Chamberland
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Stephane et les noms...
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:20:21 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto

In article <9687@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> robert@ireq.hydro.qc.ca writes:
>
>	Quelqu'un m'a dit dernierement qu'une coutume anglaise
>etait d'ajouter la premiere lettre du nom de famille de la
>mere au prenom de l'enfant. Donc dans
>
>	Gerald P Heckman
>
>P serait la premiere lettre du nom de famille de la mere.
>
>Est-ce vrai?

Occassionally, but not usually.  For middle names, I got my paternal
grandfather's first name (Wallace), one brother got my father's first name
(David) and my other brother got my mother's maiden name (Lewis), but in
the last case it worked out well since it's also a common first name.

In England (and perhaps Scotland, Wales and Ireland), there is a custom of
adding both parents' surnames to create a new surname.  It's mostly done by
the upper class to preserve a "good" name.  Sometimes it's hyphenated
(Freddie Fotheringay-Phipps), sometimes not (Andrew and Julian Lloyd
Weber).  Sometimes these names are carried forth into future generations
too.  The custom is not all that widely practised, but these kinds of names
do show up now and then.

In England too, there is a custom that the higher class you are, the more
middle names you have.  My (England-English) father, for example, is David
Wilfred Holland Godfrey:  Wilfred was an older relative, and Holland is an
old family name, although not his mother's maiden name.  I can't really
vouch for his "class" :-).

In Spanish-speaking countries, the usual custom is for everyone to have two
surnames, one inherited from each parent e.g. Blue Jay shortstop Manuel Lee
Lora.  I'm no expert here, 'tho.

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
From: orange@alfred.carleton.ca (Paul Vallee)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: French in france
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:44:09 GMT
Organization: Carleton University

In <1992Apr08.184425.27865@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:

>In article <11388@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr03.231628.26105@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>>>
>>>  I state again::
>>>Half the population of France at the time of the Declaration did not
>>>speak French.
>>>(Source: Hobsbawm, Nations and Nationalism Since 1780.)
>>
>>Well, I'll have to verify.
>>
>>If this is true, then it is remarkable that the colons who colonized
>>Quebec (then Canada) all spoke french, and no other languages from
>>France. It is also strange that all the remaining text from the time
>>are in French. There is no litterature from France in languages other
>>than french from that time.

>Half spoke French and only 12% spoke it "properly", as they say.
>Most colonists from France came from one small area, which was
>french-speaking.
>If you ever get a chance to look at the Historical Atlas of Canada,
>look at the map that shows the origins of the Quebecois French.
>One big blob.

>It would not surprise me at all if most known literature from that period
>was in french. How much Basque literature can you name even today?
>I do recommend that book for verification (and because it is an
>interesting read in itself.)

>Frank.

I think you're also ommitting 'La langue d'Oc', spoken by the entire
south of France at that period, and still learnt today, although not
very widespread.
Also, Catalan was and is very widespread in the Departements nearest
to Spain.

In the Alsace Lorraine region, German is still just as predominant as
French.

Hope this helps...



orange@ccs.carleton.ca ------- Paul Vallee ---- 542429@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
------------Home: (613)569-1068 --------- Work: (613)995-6921------------
"We have to shout above the din of our Rice Krispies..."     - The Police
"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
From: warkent@ltisun9.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Alberta Conservatives & Bilingualism
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:04:54 GMT
	<1992Apr11.203132.26421@splunge.uucp>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: adrian@splunge.uucp's message of 11 Apr 92 20:31:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.203132.26421@splunge.uucp> adrian@splunge.uucp (Adrian Ashley) wrote:
> I guess I don't know how a "friendly climate" is to be "started now";
> you're assuming that Alberta is currently an unfriendly place for
> Francophones, which it isn't, and that we'll all have to learn French
> to convince them to come here.
 
A francophone would undoubtedly feel welcome if government services
and schooling were available in French.  They are not, even though
francophone communities have existed in Alberta since before its
inception.

> What are we to do with the French schools in the years after we've
> established them but before there are any Francophones to go to them?

But there are already francophones in Alberta who want to send their
children to a French language school.

> Why, apart from sheer numbers,
> should we treat French differently than other languages?

Because French is an official language of Canada.
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
From: warkent@ltisun9.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:06:56 GMT
	<SBO.92Apr12121903@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca>
	<1992Apr13.215633.9275@tsltor.uucp>
	<1992Apr14.180738.7227@bmerh2.bnr.ca>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: nadeau@bnr.ca's message of 14 Apr 92 18:07:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.180738.7227@bmerh2.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) wrote:
> Anyway, if we "turf the old biddy", what symbol do you propose in
> her place?  (And I think we do need some symbol - I will not pledge
> allegiance to the current government, or to the existing country of
> Canada, but I will do so for the "ideal" Canada, the country as it
> strives to be in its best moments.)

Je propose que le Canada choisisse un elan comme chef d'etat.

I propose that Canada choose a moose as head of state.
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada,can.general
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 13:31:50 EDT
From: <QPID@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Canada, 2 nations.
 <1992Apr14.210058.16581@bmerh2.bnr.ca> <92106.111459QPID@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>

I apologize for not signing off.

Anu Gupta (531-3007)
Queen's University
QPID@QUCDN
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: benoit@active.UVic.CA (Benoit de la Filolie)
Subject: Re: French in france
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 00:26:09 GMT

In article <orange.702762249@cunews> orange@alfred.carleton.ca (Paul Vallee) writes:
>
>In the Alsace Lorraine region, German is still just as predominant as French.
>
> Paul Vallee

Well, have you been in Alsace ? and in Lorraine ?
Ask any people overthere if they speak german and you'll hear the answer.

The "alsacien" is a language spoken in Alsace (of course) but it is NOT
german. It is close to german but I repeat it is NOT german.  For some one
who does not speak neither german or "alsacien", I know that it is a little bit
confusing.

Benoit.
-- 
Benoit de la Filolie                                     (W):  (604) 721 60 15
PhD Student                                              (H): Are you kidding?
Laboratory for Lightwave Electronic,                    University of Victoria
Microwave and Communication                              Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: Bourassa is my hero
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:20:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.214447.29340@seachg.uucp> jalsop@seachg.UUCP (John Alsop) writes:
>In article <1992Mar30.173733.27332@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>
>>
>>I certainly think that the use of the army by Trudeau/Bourassa/Turner
>>was an abomination.
>>
>>I think that the perception of that act within QUebec, although partly
>>generated by nationalist fervour (and hindsight) is more justified that
>>the initial support given for armed personnel in the streets.
>>
>>Trudeau's famous JUST WATCH ME line still puts shivers up my spine.
>
>I was a student in Montreal at the time, and I can assure you that the
>anglophone community was 99.9% in support of Trudeau's move. (Of course
>anglophone opinions don't count for anything anymore!).


Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me here?
I stated that the majority within Quebec and Canada supported the
WM Act at the time (that means anglos/francos and allos).


>
>As the events recede into the past, people tend to forget the exact
>circumstances and tend to rewrite things to support their current political
>agenda (e.g. another case of "oppression" against Quebec).  However, I would
>hope that if the same situation occurred today, the response would be the same.


 I would hope the response would NOT be the same.
Knowing that a handful of people were planting bombs, would you suspend
the civil liberties of the entire population? Surely not!

>
>I don't know about others of my generation from Montreal, but I still get
>nervous walking past mailboxes!


Which mailboxes? The ones the RCMP put bombs into or the other ones?
(Have you forgotten the one that got caught -- his arm was blown off.)

Frank.
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Stephane et les noms...
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:00:53 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Apr3.194527.9780@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
:En general, chez les franco-quebecois, il n'y a qu'un prenom. Pour tous les
:franco-quebecois je crois, l'usage de deux prenoms par la culture anglophone
:est curieux: "pourquoi deux prenoms si un seul est utilise?"...
:
:J'ai la meme "fascination", quoique je m'abtiens de poser des questions
:a ce sujet, ne sachant pas si ce serait considere comme "indiscret"...

Les hispaniques sont encore pire: ils aiment bien demander les noms
complets (les leurs sont parfois tres long) afin de pouvoir remmonter
les origines et voir si il n'y aurait pas quelque chose de commun.

-- 
Francois Audet
Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: National Referendum?
Date: 5 Apr 92 17:55:21 GMT
	<1992Apr4.003340.10603@cunews.carleton.ca>
Distribution: can.politics
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr4.003340.10603@cunews.carleton.ca> rwood@superior.carleton.ca (Richard Wood) writes:

   The fact is, there is not much TROC can do to stop Quebec from quitting, 
   referendum or no referendum.  But I disagree with your use of the word 'right'
   concerning self-determination.  It has a legal sound to me, and there is no
   right to self-determination defined in the BNA act or in the Constitution Act 
   of 1982 that I know of.

Is there a negation of right to self-determination defined in the BNA act
or in the Constitution Act of 1982?
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
From: michele@catnix.UUCP (Michele A. Simond)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Alberta Conservatives & Bilingualism
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:58:26 GMT
Organization: Rhinoceros, chargez!


In article <1992Apr3.000638.16902@splunge.uucp> adrian@splunge.uucp (Adrian
(Adrian Ashley) writes:
>
>[...]Given that Canadians appear to
     want a multilingual nation, [...]
 
If this perception is true, I cannot help but wonder how Canada
could handle a multilingual nation when it has so much problems
handling two.

And I can almost hear the uproar about multilingual
cereal boxes.  Poor Rice Crispies' boxes... J'entends deja
la cacophonie... :-}}}


--
Michele Simond ...... Traductrice ......  B.P.: michele@catnix.UUCP
(514) 671-8820				   OU :	michele%catnix@cam.org
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Separation?
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:09:15 GMT
	<SBO.92Apr12122812@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca>
	<1992Apr13.164423.14806@cc.umontreal.ca>
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <1992Apr13.164423.14806@cc.umontreal.ca> coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael) writes:

   Stephane was asking about the trucker who decorated his vehicle with
   signatures of Canadians who wanted Quebec to stay within Confederation.
   I believe that he got something in the region of 100,000 signatures.
   He got a lot less publicity though, than the three or four morons who
   walked on the Quebec flag in Brockville.

Il a eu de la publicite pour les affiches. Mais pour ce qui est des
signatures de lettres, je n'en ai pas entendu parle.

--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: jalsop@seachg.uucp (John Alsop)
Subject: Re: Get Ready Canada For The Next Boom
Reply-To: jalsop@seachg.UUCP (John Alsop)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 01:47:01 GMT

In article <92102.013133SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
>If you think the only cost of the GST is the amount remitted, try running
>a small business. The paperwork in the GST (record keeping, registration,
>etc.), is a major hassle. That adds to the cost of business, and believe
>me, it gets passed on.

This myth gets posted every few months.  The reality is that the overhead
of the GST is trivial, and is more than compensated for by the fact that
the input tax credit is received on goods used within the business as well
as those for resale.

(And yes, I do run a business).

-- 
John Alsop

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484 Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!jalsop
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 21:26:12 GMT

Sylvain< I admit I might have missed some of
the nuances of your posting.
However, let me just restate that anything can be taken
out of context to look bad. If you read his book you
will see what I mean.

You cannot argue that one should not write a book for fear
of what others will do out of context to make it look
nasty. 
Frank.