HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vitamin D from sunshine
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:15:48 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1993Jan3.163238.17350@pixel.kodak.com>, young@clpd.kodak.com 
(Rich Young) writes:
> 	I've seen pet stores try to pawn off a standard "Gro-Lite" as UV-
> 	emitting and suitable for lizards.

They may or may not be suitable for lizards or sufficient as a vitamin-D 
source for humans, but I always used "gro-lights" as a UV source in the 
lab. Cheap and sufficient for my rather low-level needs. Of course, I 
needed only a small fraction of the amount of UV the sun puts out. But then,
if you used them all day you'd probably get the equivalent of your daily
requirement of five minutes or so's worth of sunlight.

Vitamin D deficiency used to be such a major problem that it was added
to cow's milk as a supplement. This is hard to imagine since it's now
said that you need only ten minutes or so a day of sunlight on your face
hands and forearms, for six months of the year at New York City's latitude
to take care of all of your needs for the year. If it's that easy to get
enough, why did so many poor children get rickets? How strange that they
were unable to get that tiny amount of sun exposure.

I guess this really belongs under sci.med.nutrition.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: kkv@inel.gov (Jamie J Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Insulting Your Family
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 19:05:47 GMT


I'm the only vegetarian in my family, and I've been very lucky
since they've accepted it as my choice with very little fuss.  I
do get the occasional question (so don't you miss eating meat?)
or two.  I try not to preach to them, but the best way to show
them that I'm not too weird (at least in my eating habits) and
to encourage them to eat less meat (eating less is better than
not changing at all) I've found that sharing recipes and cooking
for my family on occasion is very helpful.  For Christmas my mom
and sister gave me two cookbooks, the new Moosewood cookbook and
the Enchanted Broccoli Forest (both VERY good), and I had just 
bought Laurel's Kitchen for myself.  My mother evidently started
looking at these cookbooks before they wrapped them, and now she
wants to borrow them all the time!  She and I also share recipes,
and I'm lucky enough that she's willing to try to make food I can
eat (at Thanksgiving she even made me vegetarian gravy -- with
water, flour, and vegetable boullion, but at least she tried!).
If you're having trouble convincing people that you don't just
eat salad the best thing I can think of is to provide food and
recipes yourself, and to complement your family on those dishes
they make that you can eat.  I realize I don't have half the
problems of alot of vegetarians, but this is how I have
dealt with the problems I have encountered.

I think that people are moving toward eating less meat and more
and more are becoming vegetarians, and I try to encourage that
without putting down meat-eating (much -- its hard!).  Just
think, 50 years from now you'll have a hard time finding a
restaurant that will serve meat!!!  (I hope!)


Jamie

========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
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opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Little Tyke the Veggy Lion
Date: 5 Jan 1993 16:49:42 +1100
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.anu.edu.au

twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>In article <altar.726169539@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca 
>(Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>
>>Certainly, we need to be [...] weary of our own prejudices 

Weary, wary or both :-)?

Drew.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re VEGAN: Then don't include honey. 
From: stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 22:57:14 PST
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Nanaimo, B.C.
Summary: Honey?

In article <1993Jan3.132752.10581@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
 
>In article <8uJswB2w164w@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
> writes:
>>la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.) writes:
>>Hmm.  I suppose you could try using a thick soymilk, and substitute honey 
>>for the rice syrup..  I've never considered it before.  If you do, try to 
>
>Sorry to interrupt. Honey is not vegetarian, and certainly not vegan.
 
This is a bit belated, but your posting was deleted before I caught it..
 
As far as I understand the terminology, honey is a vegetarian product.  It 
is not animal flesh.  It is, of course, an animal byproduct, and thus not 
strictly vegan.  However, many vegans do eat honey.. This is a frequently 
debated issue which I don't really care to involve myself in (again :-)).  I 
did not include honey in the recipe proper which was labelled VEGAN.  It was 
simply given as a possible substitution, subject to one's own ethical stance 
on the matter.  
 
 -Steve.

           stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Steve Nolan)
     The Old Frog's Almanac  (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group)    
(604) 245-3205 (v32)    <Public Access UseNet>    (604) 245-4366 (2400x4)
        Vancouver Island, British Columbia    Waffle XENIX 1.64  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: liana@nexus.yorku.ca (Liana Simons)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Is it Natural?
Organization: York University, CS Dept. Toronto
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:00:16 GMT

When it comes to feeding my cats they get a meet diet that has no artificial
colour, flavour or vitamins.  It is made out of a combination of meat and 
vegies.  Although cats are primarily carnivors they do eat greens to get
any missing neutrients.  My cat happens to like jalapeno peppers and most
cats eat some sort of grass.  Many other meet eating animals will eat some
sort of vegie but stick to what they are best adapted to which is meat. One
should also remember is that cats like to scavange as well as hunt but
I get the feeling from my cats is that meat is meat it does not matter if it
comes from cans or rodents they like it equally well.

As one person stated about dog food, "when was the last time anyone saw
a pack of wild dogs attack a field of wheat?"  This from a maker of dry
dog food who would not feed it to his own dogs for just that reason.

just my 2 cents.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liana Simons                         | WANDERER - Robert Simons
Cat Owner,                           | Wandering through cold silicon hallways,
Cat Lover                            | Seeing everything, but nothing,
and Cat Owned!                       | Forever Wandering, The Wanderer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Those who compute together, stay together.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Becoming a vegetarian and lactose intolerance
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:54:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>    Another possible reason for your apparent increased
>sensitivity may be due to an inadvertent greater consumption of
>milk and diary products, however slight.  Possibly, that critical
>threshold has been reached.  Certainly, an increased consumption
>of dairy products frequently occurs with new vegetarians who are
>under the mistaken assumption that they must do this in order to
>maintain an adequate protein intake.  Hence, the intestinal
>problems they may experience is due to the increased consumption
>of milk that is now making more manifest the lactose intolerance
>they always had.

Not necessarily true!  When I first stopped eating meat, I didn't know
what I was doing.  I had a limited number of foods that I ate growing
up.  By taking meat, the largest portion, out of that food grouping, I
had to make up with the other foods that were left.  Milk and cheese
tend to be more filling than vegetables and salads, so in my case, and
probably many new vegetarians, I started relying on these foods
heavily.  Initially of course.  I eventually learned better and weaned
myself off of them.  As a new vegetarian it's hard to completely
change your whole eating pattern.  I never even considered the
supposed "lack of protein" from a vegetarian diet to ever be a
concern.  I was just looking for something to eat, since I didn't know
anything about grains or beans!


>                                Happy Vegetarian New Year,
>                                        ted

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 6 Jan 1993 16:03:39 EST
From: Cheryl Lynn Lavertu <LAVERTU@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: What is TVP mince?

I have some vegetarian recipes which call for TVP mince.
Dumb question from a recent convert from meat-eating: what
is TVP mince (aka TVP granules)?  Are they talking about the
packages of hamburger-substitute mix such as Harvest Burger
or Nature Burger or something else?  Please, no flames from
those who feel that eating vegetable matter which is made to
look like meat is *almost* as immoral as eating real meat.  I'm
new to this and may eventually see the light, but haven't yet :)
I'll change by degrees, I think--last year I gave up red meat
and this December I just gave up poultry.
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: David Edwards, please reply
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:11:05 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

There are two David Edwards' reading this newsgroup, one is a 
vegetarian, another is not. Please give your middle initials
to make things clearer in the list of participants.

Sorry for the confusion I have created so far.

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ckp2n@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Christina Powell)
Subject: Re: Soy margarine gripe
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:28:31 GMT

artemis@netcom.com  writes:
> I doubt you'll get anywhere with Bread and Circus.  They keep their
> own politics.  You won't find cornstarch there either.

Okay, I'll admit to being only an aspiring vegetarian, but I am
stumped at what possibly could be wrong with cornstarch.

Chris
(one of the dreaded lurking omnivores, but less omni than most)
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: getting vegan recipes
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:43:25 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu


to FTP the recipes from brownvm...you need to do 
   ftp 128.173.5.164
   username: vegan
   password: guest
A
A
anonymous ftp does't work at this site.
A
Jill
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Kosher to veggie (was Re: RECIPES: sandwich spreads)
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:55:21 GMT
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace

In article 19491 of rec.food.veg (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
>In article (article # accidentally deleted) (Judy Karpen) writes:

>>Your post brought up a question I've wondered about for some time:
>>how many other veggies out there in r.f.v-land became veg as an
>>outgrowth of keeping kosher? I know several (including myself), 
>>mostly women, and am curious whether it's as common as it seems.

Wow, somebody should introduce me to some of these women;-)

>It's actually fairly common.  When my sister was living in NYC there was
>a feeling amoung many of the young observant Jews there that the Kosher
>laws, while not an outright ban on meat, were an attempt to encourage a
>vegetarian lifestyle.  Personally I like this view.  I guess if I dropped
>the shellfish (not likely) I would be keeping kosher (despite being an
>intermarried atheist).
>
>Andy

HMMM, I wonder about this.  I've never met anyone who truly kept kosher and 
had vegged out because of it.  Back in Eugene OR, there were quite a few 
people who wouldn't have meat in their houses because of the difficulty of 
getting kosher meat out in the middle of nowhere.  (well, actually we have the
best selection of organic produce and wild mushrooms in the world, but try
telling that to a transplanted New Yorker)  There are now kosher wines from
OR, so that situation may be getting better, but that's another story.

I've been around tons of baalei t'shuva and none of them, despite being young
and having been around major universities, where veg'ism is common, for a
long time, has given up flesh, certainly not for reasons of kashrut.  It is
true that most frum people no longer freak out when you decline the meat they
offer you @Shabbos dinner, but they generally think it's weird.

Rosh Hashanah a year and change ago I was @Chabbad in Portland, OR, and they 
didn't have any vegan bread, so about an hour and a half before yom tov 
started I had to run to a Safeway to get some matzah.  There's a Chabbad
rabbi in Israel who's macro, which strikes me as more than a little bit 
terrifying, but hey.  His influence clearly hasn't spread w/in the Lubavich
community, though I've heard he's great speaking to BT and high school groups.
Anyway, while the Rav and Rebitsin were nice about making sure I had food, it 
was pretty much all salad sort of stuff.

I don't buy most of the arguments about kashrut having anything to do w/food
preservation or any of that, but Rambam must be right about sacrifice being
a concession to the Israelites desire to imitate the religions around them.

Hmm, I'm wasting the nets proverbial thousands o' bux and not saying much, and
it's getting perilously close to sundown.  (well, an hour and a half, but I
gotta make dinner)  If this is as unintelligible as I fear, I'll try to make
some sense of it in a later post.  (or not)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rovel@eng.umd.edu (Amy L. Rovelstad)
Subject: Re: Gay cats?  The final solution!
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 14:32:57 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1993Jan6.055652.22153@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

[cited material deleted]
>
>What surprises me is that anybody cares about the fact that GBC sees
>fit to use "gay" as a term of insult. If he had said "black", "feminine",
>or "jewish" I wonder if there would have been a flurry of messages
>about it?

Yes.

Let me guess:  You are a heterosexual, white, non-Jewish male.  Am I right?

George could have gotten out of the hole he dug for himself by 
apologizing, or at the very least not trying to defend such swill.  He
declined to take either of those routes.  Taken as a whole, his remarks
deserve to get flamed much more than they have.

At any rate, maybe we could get back to vegetarian issues.  I promise to 
bring in a recipe tomorrow to make amends for extending this thread.  I
simply couldn't let such a clueless remark pass again.

Amy

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: Some things about beans
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:59:13 GMT

In article <C0IHn4.8J0@world.std.com> levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder) writes:
# There've been a few postings about beans lately; they're among my
# favorite foods; here are some facts, questions, and semicolons:

Beans are something I eat just about every day.  There are so many kinds,
that I just don't get bored with the taste.   Grains and beans -- these
are my staples.  I don't think I spend more than 20 minutes cooking
either of them.  I don't presoak beans.  I just dump them in a slow
cooker (crock pot) and cook them about 10 hours.  I find they come out
very tastey.  It's certainly the least effort for me to prepare them
that way.  I make enough beans to last me several meals at a time.  I
sometimes cook grains in the crock pot too, but I usually use a rice
cooker because it cooks unattended as well, and the grains always come out
right.  I am fond of appliances that don't require attention.

I usually smile at the surprised look on my collegue's faces when I respond
to their question "what's that you're eating today?".  They've heard of
barley, wheat, rye, millet, spelt etc, but have never seen anyone
eating the grains like rice before.  Nor have they seen or tried mung
beans, aduki beans, black turtle beans, or fava beans either.  It's
their loss.

What are some of your favourite seasonings for beans?  I am currently 
experimenting with different curry mixtures (east-indian, malaysian, madras)
and find they all taste different.

My basic beans recipe consists of 3-6 different varieties of beans dumped
into the crock pot (whatever appeals to me at the time), dehydrated onion,
garlic, salt, and curry.  Never fails to turn out fine.

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: Sandwiches
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:16:38 GMT

Posting asked for sandwich fillings that can be frozen/chilled:

My lunches are usually crackers/rice cakes and some homemade spread,
which could also be used in sandwiches. My experience with storage
times, etc. is:

hummous: stays in fridge for at least a week, maybe 2. Can sit outside
         of fridge for a few hours, at least (warning: room will smell
         more and more like garlic!). Never tried freezing; prob. OK.
         Other bean spreads should behave similarly, unless dairy is
         used (in which case they won't last as long)

tofu spread: lasts OK in fridge for a week or so, not as well as hummous.
             Even though I use firm, pressed tofu, it gradually exudes
             liquid (which can be drained off daily). Can stay out of 
             fridge a few hours without harm. Wouldn't try freezing
             considering what happens to regular tofu .........
             (frozen tofu is good in cooking, but a spongy spread? ugh!)

meatless loaf: lasts 1-2 weeks in fridge.(haven't dared try longer), 
               freezes fine (gets crumbly and exudes water, but tastes OK).
               Tastes good room temp/cold (actually I've never tried it
               hot!). Jean Reese posted this great recipe some months back.

spicy tofu pate: only tried this once, so far, but it was good.
                 lasted a week in fridge (not a big recipe).
                 Didn't try freezing. Recipe came from net, months ago.

Of course, there's always peanut butter & jam ........ ;^>

Hope this info is useful!
                   


Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Subject: Re: Insulting your family?
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 18:58:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.163710.2852@wam.umd.edu> sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
>In article <C0EtMz.Iut@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cgk@n.tam.uiuc.edu (Chris Kocher) writes:
>>
>>	I've recently made a conversion to a new, healthier diet, but I'm
>>the only one in my family to do so.  My parents are both of German
>>extraction, though at different points down the line, so our family diet
>>was all meat and potatoes.  Well, whenever I go to visit my parents, 
>>that's all they eat.  It's hard for me to tell them that I don't want to
>>eat their food, especially when I know they've gone to considerable
>>effort to fix it.  I feel especially uneasy when they prod me further to
>>ask about my diet, and I tell them how unhealthy their food is.  
>>Fortunately, they appear to understand.  Does anyone else have this
>>difficulty?  I'm curious to know what others' experiences have been.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>
>It has been my experience that the majority of these situations ( not all )
>are tenuous at best.  Just remind your parents you still love/respect them
>and value your heritage and by all means dont let them manuever you into
>doing "nutrition talk" at the dinner table.  Tell them you would be happy
>to talk about it, after dinner etc.  It will be a less threatening and
>tense situation.
>
>Good Luck
>SFJR
>

I think Steve's is good advice. I can only add one idea from personal experience.
Just a suggestion about your general approach: if you compare "your" food
with "their" food you are setting up an adversarial situation which may
put them on the defensive (even though that clearly is not your intention).
Comparing the nutritional merits of your bean-barley casserole with their
sauerbraten will provoke a defense more readily than a comparison between
the relative nutritional values of 100g. of beans and 100g of sirloin.
Keep the personal possessive pronouns out of it is my advice (which usually
is worth exactly what you pay for it *:o)!)

Cheers,
Claudia

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Article in _Adbusters_ Winter 1993 Issue
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:21:37 GMT


_Adbusters_Quarterly_, Journal of the Mental Environment, is by The Media
Foundation, 1243 West 7th Ave., Vancouver, BC V6H 1B7 Canada.  

On page 17 of their teen magazine _Big_Noise_ (contained within _Adbusters_
itself) is an interesting article called "Granola Hedz".  Author Chris DeVito
writes:  "...PETA suspects some of the possible contents of the average hot
dog include cow lips, noses, ears, toenails, eyeballs, cockroaches and - yum!
- sawdust for that filler feeling.  Yet reading about hot dog contents doesn't
have to be a stomach turning experience, especially when the dog's a tofu
weiner."  A comparison of the nutritional content of tofu dogs and dead animal
dogs follows, along with the comment that tofu dogs taste better!  The article
concludes, "Do our bodies really need meat (or meat scraps) to live?  Of
course not.  And the growing sales of tofu weiners, tofu burgers, tofu
bologna, and so on, suggests that the general public believes that as well."

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: milk substitutes for Jill and others...
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:28:52 GMT

Clover M. writes:

>I have been trying veganism since Nov 31, and with minimal problems,
>have stuck to my new diet.  Yes, I have cheated, but it has overall
>been easier than I expected.

Good for you Clover,  and congratulations!  As Richard Hooker long ago
said, "change is not made without inconvenience, even from worst
to better".   :-)

				Happy Vegan New Year, 
					ted
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg