HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jorn@chinet.chi.il.us (Jorn Barger)
Subject: Re: IF Theory Article
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:21:03 GMT

(That *was* the whole article, Dave.  But I'd love to spin it out
a bit here.)
The structure I'm proposing starts with a simple abstraction hierarchy
that has person-place-thing-motive as its top-level discriminations,
but each of these are of course further subdivided (and one great
challenge is to find other concepts at this level of generality).
The topological trick is to do a cross-product of the whole hierarchy
*with itself*, recognizing that the stories suggested by the cross-
product of, eg, *survival* (a motive) with *tool* (a thing), *will
inherit structure* from the simpler crossproduct of motive and
thing.  So we postpone the combinatorial explosion by carefully
exhausting the toplevel relationships before exploring
1) their specializations (the crossproduct of more-specialized
elements)
2) their *complexifications* (3- to N- dimensional crossproducts
of top level nodes)
There's a profound difference between these two sorts of ramification,
in that the menus for type 2 *will always offer the whole abst.  hier.
over again*, while type 1's menus will be peculiar to the point
you're moving from.

An example:
Imagine you've navigated from the zero-point of this 'content
network' to the relationship "person uses tool".  Now, you may
choose to specialize person or tool ( --> person uses crowbar),
or you may prefer to add an element to the "person-tool repertory"
like motive-survival, suggesting the obvious story "person uses
tool to satisfy survival motive".

More later....

jorn@chinet.chi.il.us (Jorn Barger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Subject: Re: PC/Mac TADS v2.0.11 now on ftp.gmd.de, with documentation
Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:14:27 GMT

In article <uerics.726735140@mcl> uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd) writes:
>I downloaded the files there and found, to my dismay, that the ZIP archive
>is apparently damaged (at least, that's what Borland's UNZIP v2.0 says).
>Some of the files unpack okay, but the executables did not, and neither
>did STD.T.  Is the archive there good?  Did something just glitch along
>the way to my machine?

I think Borland's unzip is *old*, and really only meant to be used for
unzipping their own files. I didn't have any problems using pkunzip 1.10
(available from all major ftp sites as pkz110eu.exe or something like that).

              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se, thepmo@seldc52.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q
From: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:55:00 GMT

My vote for best single Infocom adventure: Trinity.
Best series: Zork (runner-up: Enchanter)

Most challenging: Spellbreaker
Least challenging: Seastalker
Funniest: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


I also really enjoyed Hollywood Hijinx.

- Eric S.

--
Eric D. Shepherd                   | Apple II Alliance Charter Member
InterNet: uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu  |           ACM Member
FidoNet:  1:206/2713 Eric Shepherd | Programming Law #1: "When in
AOL:      Sheppy                   | doubt, rewrite from scratch."
From: dag@hpsemc.cup.hp.com (David A Graves)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:20:11 GMT
Subject: FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
Organization: HP VAB Programs
From: sdstpk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Stephen Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:07:50 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) writes:

> Anyway, any votes for faves? Personally I still think "Suspended" is
>one of the most brilliant games. [...]

1) Zork 2
2) Enchanter Trilogy
3) Suspended
4) the Lurking Horror


I have to agree with your comments concerning Suspended, but I never could
completely enjoy a game I had to reboot if I screwed up too badly (and 
forgot to save).  That was more my C= 64's fault than anything but hey...

-Stephen


-- 
i stand on ground i've walked before,|||    Stephen D. Spencer
to seek the way.                     |||    sdstpk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
and watch the moon rise into night,  |||    Kansas State University
illuminating with its light.__-Iona-_|||______________________________________
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:51:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) says:
>
> Anyway, any votes for faves?

My very favorites are _A_Mind_Forever_Voyaging_ and _Suspended_.  
_Suspended_ is a better example of traditional puzzle-oriented IF,
whereas AMFV does the best job of any game I've seen before or since
of creating a sense of actually being in the game, and of provoking
emotional repsonses from the player.  (The epilogue didn't really fit,
though.)

-- PTD --
-- 
Palmer T. Davis      ___
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>   \X/   cthread.  cthread_fork().  Fork, thread, fork!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction
From: blasius@gmd.de (Volker Blasius)
Subject: Infocom articles and interviews
Keywords: Infocom article interview articles interviews Doherty
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:55:02 GMT

News for Infocom fans:

I just put some articles and interviews that Paul David Doherty sent me into 
ftp.gmd.de, directory if-archive/infocom, file articles.zip.

I include the README and CONTENTS subfiles below.

Enjoy

Volker

------------------------------------ cut -----------------------------------

                        ----------------                 1.2 - Nov 16, 1992
                        Infocom Articles
                        ----------------
                  Compiled by Paul David Doherty

This file will (sooner or later) contain all important articles and
interviews from newspapers and computer magazines that deal with Infocom.
Peter Barton <s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> typed in the Byte article, and
the articles from the "New Zork Times" have been scanned in by Stu Galley
<galley@think.com>. I scanned in the other articles.

If you can provide articles not included in this file, please contact me at
<h0142kdd@rz.hu-berlin.de>. (And if you find any typos that were not in the
originals, I'd like to hear about it!)

------------------------------------ cut --------------------------------

CONTENTS
========

The Three Important Papers
--------------------------

1. The IEEE Computer Article (1979)
   "Zork: A Computerized Fantasy Simulation Game"
   by P. David Lebling/Marc S. Blank/Timothy A. Anderson
   [IEEE Computer, vol. 12 no. 4, April 1979, pages 51-59.]

2. The Creative Computing Article (1980)
   "How to Fit a Large Program Into a Small Machine"
   by Marc S. Blank/S. W. Galley
   [Creative Computing, July 1980, pages 80-87.]

3. The Byte Article (1980)
   "Zork and the Future of Computerized Fantasy Simulations"
   by P David Lebling
   [Byte, December 1980, pages 172-182.]


Interviews
----------

4. Mike Gerrard's Lebling Interview (1987)
   "Interview at the end of the universe"
   by Mike Gerrard
   [Atari ST User (???), May 1987]

5. Paul Rigby's Moriarty Interview (1991)
   "From here to Trinity...and back again"
   by Paul Rigby
   [Adventure Probe, vol. 5 no. 5, May 1991, pages 15-19.]


Miscellaneous Articles
----------------------

6. The History of Zork (1985)
   "The History of Zork"
   by Tim Anderson/Stu Galley
   [Part 1: The New Zork Times, vol. 4 no. 1, Winter 1985.]
   [Part 2: The New Zork Times, vol. 4 no. 2, Spring 1985.]
   [Part 3: The New Zork Times, vol. 4 no. 3, Summer 1985.]

------------------------------------ cut ----------------------------------

---
Volker Blasius
Senior Doorstop, Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung
From: dag@hpsemc.cup.hp.com (David A Graves)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:26:03 GMT
Subject: Re: FAQ - what is Plot Calculus?
Organization: HP VAB Programs
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction

I adopted the term "plot calculus" from Brenda Laurel's PhD dissertation, but
"plot algebra" might be more comfortable for some people.  The way I see it, a
plot calculus this would be a set of rules for manipulation of symbols
representing plot fragments.  In a simple implementation it could be a formal
grammar, but I shy away from getting too deeply into a yacc-like grammar
implementation because the stories generated would be so predictable.
(Propp's analysis of the structure of folktales is of this structure.  You
could define a yacc grammer which would recognize hundreds of plots within
Propp's vision of story structure).  I prefer methods which take into account
some of the semantics of the situation.  This means that you can't just use a
formal grammar.  Thus, the term "plot calculus" seems to apply to my view of
plot representation and processing.  Perhaps a more modern term would be "rule
base".

There are a number of references that focus on various peoples vision of what
a plot calculus would be, although few of the authors use that term.  I direct
you to Propp, Ploti, Meehan, and Laurel.  These references are spelled out in
the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) file in this news group.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Cray Communications, Alex McL")
Subject: Re: Classic Infocom Mumblings
Reply-To: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:58:00 +0000


After some five years since first playing Hitchhiker,
LeatherGoddesses, and Zork, I am *finally*
writting my own adventure. (in the classic 
infocom style).

I would like some help with features that you 
think ought to go into a good parser. and of
course any other suggestions you may have will
be gratefully received.

PS the code is crap at the moment. I am just doodling.

AlexMC

(amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk    or
 alexmc@case.co.uk (but this last may have problems)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Cyborg Wanted (was anyone remember "Cyborg"?)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:27:09 GMT

lavonius@plootu.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius) writes:

>I recall the same name, so either we're right or destined to walk to the
>dementia centre together :-)

 One or two other people have indicated that the name sounds familiar
to them. So something's up or we're all suffering from a rather arcane
mass hallucination.

>Yes, it was available on the Mac. BUT it's very very picky on the system,
>I didn't get it to run on my Plus at all on 4 MB. A friend of mine picked
>it up real cheap from a sale, I've never seen it in a shop. Hmm, perhaps
>I ought to give it another shot now.

 Hmmmm... Anybody out there have a copy they don't want anymore?
Luckily I have access to a totally vanilla Mac 512E as well as a 4 Mb
Plus, so I should be able to get the thing to work...

 - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: pshepard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Pat Shepard)
Subject: TADS 2.0
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 01:02:22 GMT

Unzips just fine for me...must be your unzip utility.



`

Xref: sparky rec.arts.int-fiction:1154 rec.games.int-fiction:1113
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Infocom Fact Sheet - updated version 4.2
From: gnat@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Nathan Torkington)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:39:02 GMT
Organization: Contract to CSC, Victoria Uni, Wellington, New Zealand

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Vocabulary Size in Infocom Games?
From: howell_ma@movies.enet.dec.com (Mark Howell)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1992 11:25:00 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


                         Objects    Words

A Mind Forever Voyaging    609      1813
Arthur                     325      1060
Ballyhoo                   239       962
Beyond Zork                448      1569
Border Zone                351       803
Bureaucracy                255      1416
Cutthroats                 223       790
Deadline                   255       656
Enchanter                  255       723
Hollywood Hijinx           244       854
Infidel                    249       613
Journey                    434        27
Leather Goddesses          267      1031
Moonmist                   253       955
Nord and Bert              286      1230
Planetfall                 257       696
Plundered Hearts           223       816
Seastalker                 255       916
Sherlock                   314      1194
Shogun                     413      1389
Sorcerer                   255      1012
Spellbreaker                63       850
Starcross                  239       557
Stationfall                255       789
Suspect                    255       674
Suspended                  191       676
The Hitch Hiker's Guide    236      1019
The Lurking Horror         252       773
The Witness                251       715
Trinity                    593      2120
Wishbringer                254      1063
Zork I                     260       692
Zork II                    250       684
Zork III                   222       564
Zork Zero                  574      1624
From: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: PC/Mac TADS v2.0.11 now on ftp.gmd.de, with documentation
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:52:20 GMT

I downloaded the files there and found, to my dismay, that the ZIP archive
is apparently damaged (at least, that's what Borland's UNZIP v2.0 says).
Some of the files unpack okay, but the executables did not, and neither
did STD.T.  Is the archive there good?  Did something just glitch along
the way to my machine?

Hmmm... when I tried to download 2.0 a month or so ago, the same thing
happened.  But that was a different version of TADS.  Maybe my UNZIP
program isn't compatible with these files?

- Eric S.

--
Eric D. Shepherd                   | Apple II Alliance Charter Member
InterNet: uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu  |           ACM Member
FidoNet:  1:206/2713 Eric Shepherd | Programming Law #1: "When in
AOL:      Sheppy                   | doubt, rewrite from scratch."
From: dmb@case.ai.mit.edu (David Baggett)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Question about TADS programming
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:40:29 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: case.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan6.162202.9225@viewlogic.com> allen@baja.viewlogic.com (Dave Allen) writes:

(Since Jacob already answered #1, I'll just comment on #2.)

>2. I want to pick up two numbers from user input, like:
>
>   "Sulu, set course to 100 mark 12".
>
>   I did this by defining mark as a preposition, setting it up so 100
>   should come back as the direct object and 12 as the indirect object.
>
>   However, what I get from the parser is 100, 100 instead of 100, 12.
>   I think this is because there is only ONE INSTANCE of basicNumObj, which
>   gets written over internally for each number in the input command.

I suspect you just can't do this.  Since there's only one numObj, it
can only be assigned one value per turn.  The numberic interface is a
pretty gross hack and it should probably be formalized better anyway.
Same for strings.  Perhaps Mike will change it some day.  If it's
really killing you, you could send him email on compuserve and he'll
probably suggest some alternative, or quickly add a new feature to
support what you want.  MJR is very good about user support.

Dave Baggett
--
dmb@ai.mit.edu           MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory                  
ADVENTIONS: interactive fiction (text adventures) for the 90's!
dmb@ai.mit.edu *** Compu$erve: 76440,2671 *** GEnie: ADVENTIONS
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: lavonius@plootu.Helsinki.FI (Ville Lavonius)
Subject: Re: Anyone remember "Cyborg"?
Organization: Beverly Hills 666
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:39:57 GMT

In article <neilg.726362592@sfu.ca> neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) writes:

    There was a text adventure years ago for the Apple ][ that went under
   the name of "Cyborg." It was written by Michael Berlyn and published
   by - er, Sentient Software, I think. Can't quite remember.

I recall the same name, so either we're right or destined to walk to the
dementia centre together :-)

    Anyway, does anyone know if it was ever ported to the Mac? I remember
   when the Mac came out there were some unlikely ports kicking around,
   like Penguin Software's "Transylvania" game, so I'm just wondering.

Yes, it was available on the Mac. BUT it's very very picky on the system,
I didn't get it to run on my Plus at all on 4 MB. A friend of mine picked
it up real cheap from a sale, I've never seen it in a shop. Hmm, perhaps
I ought to give it another shot now.

    Or a copy of Cyborg for the Apple ][ along with an Apple ][ on which
   to run it would be fine, too...

If anyone happens to have TWO of the aforementioned items, he now knows
where to send them...

    - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)
--
Ville Lavonius	        University of Helsinki, Dept. of Computer Science
lavonius@cc.helsinki.fi : You're a notch and I'm a legend - Alice Cooper

Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Re: Is there a "classic"?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:16:41 GMT

cg011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark M Woodward) writes:

>Is there a definitive or classic piece of int-ficition that I can download
>to get a sense of what it is all about?? I sent for and got a couple of 
>files from a gentleman at HP that explains a lot about the theory, but
>would like to see one in action....any suggestions?

 If you're interested in trying out a collection of some of the best
text adventures ever written you might want to look into the "Lost
Treasures of Infocom" collection of games. Infocom, during its heyday
in the 1980s, published a whole series of ingenious and innovative
examples of the text adventure genre, generally acknowledged as being
some of the best around... Unfortunately the company no longer exists,
and Activision/Mediagenic, which sells the Lost Treasures compilations
(there are two volumes of Lost Treasures) is generally acknowledged as
not being ingenious or innovative. Oh, well.

 If you're looking for cheaper ftp-able text adventures you might look
into any of the growing number of text adventures designed with TADS,
the Text Adventure Development System. These include Deep Space
Drifter, Ditch Day Drifter, Unnkulian Unventure I & II and Save
Princeton, all available at an ftp archive near you. All the games
mentioned run on MS-DOS and Macintosh systems.

 And, no, I'm not really associated with any of the names mentioned
herein and I get no kickbacks from anyone for mentioning them. :)

 - Neil K.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Anyone remember "Cyborg"?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:23:12 GMT


 Just a quick question here...

 There was a text adventure years ago for the Apple ][ that went under
the name of "Cyborg." It was written by Michael Berlyn and published
by - er, Sentient Software, I think. Can't quite remember.

 Anyway, does anyone know if it was ever ported to the Mac? I remember
when the Mac came out there were some unlikely ports kicking around,
like Penguin Software's "Transylvania" game, so I'm just wondering.

 Or a copy of Cyborg for the Apple ][ along with an Apple ][ on which
to run it would be fine, too...

 - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Cray Communications, Alex McL")
Subject: No subject 
Reply-To: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:09:00 +0000

new adventure programming system
No No, don't get your hopes up. 
It doesn't exist yet. 

HAS ANYONE ported one of the freely available 
adventure creators to a foreign platform.
(I don't mean the authors themselves, someone else)

If you haven't noticed I was hoping to write
an adventure for my Archimedes. Now I
think it would be easier to start from scratch
than to port someone else's code. No one really
sticks to pure ansi c, do they?

So is the a FAQ for writing a text adventure creator
? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>-----insert standard disclaimer here-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Alex McLintock BEng  (work phone 0923 258440) (fax 0923 258218)
amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk  <---- text, and cix binmail 
alexmc@case.co.uk               <---- uuencoded binaries   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein)
Subject: Re: New TADS game
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:10:21 GMT

neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy) writes of my game, Save Princeton:
> Sorry. I did notice it supports "undo." It doesn't support things
>like self-opening doors and such... although that could have been a
>design decision and not a matter of not using the updated ADV.T from
>1.2. 
To be honest, I most of it before TADS 2.0 came out, and I decided not
to update it too much. Perhaps I should have included self-opening
doors, but I had already developed my own way of dealing with doorways,
and I didn't feel like re-doing it. Do people consider having to
repeatedly type "open door" to be a major inconvenience?
 
>By the way, in case there was any misconception, I was not
>blasting "Princeton" for being slow. It's an issue with virtual memory
>and TADS - I've had to turn off VM when testing my game on a Mac Plus.
>Unfortunately you can't seem to do that when playing a standalone TADS
>2.0 game on the Mac.
You're quite right about the slowness of the damn thing. I've been
trying to figure out how to turn off the VM, and I can't. I've written
to Michael J. Roberts, and I'll report on his reply here.
> ( hmmmm.... this does appear to be turning into something best left
>for rec.ARTS.int-fiction, doesn't it?)
I agree- I've moved it to r.a.f. I would really be interested in seeing
any comments people have on the game; I know I'd learn a lot from seeing
constructive criticism, and I think it might prove to be of general
use.
From: cg011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark M Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Hypertext based fiction
Date: 9 Jan 1993 19:05:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I have been learning about hypertext over the last several months, and have
seen numerous "Mac" hypertext fictions in different articles and newsgroups.
My question is this, can anyone point me to an ftp example of hypertext
fiction for the PC??
I just discovered this newsgroup, so will keep my initial reactions to 
myself until I get the flavor of things...thanks
Mark Woodward -woodwamm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
-- 
Mark Woodward
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction,rec.games.int-fiction
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Cray Communications, Alex McL")
Subject: Re: Looking for hypertext for Windows
Reply-To: amclintock@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:26:00 +0000


A couple of friends of mine did a hypertext 
adventure game for a college project. So I agree it 
could be part of this topic.

AlexMC