From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:33:16 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering

In article <1992Nov16.163232.28699@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>
>YEs Rached, I have read some Islamic law and I would not accept to live under
>an Islamic state for many reasons:
>
>1- I am not a muslim thus I am not bound by Islam.

And Elie, I repeat, you are not bound by Islam if you are a non-Muslim
living in an Islamic State.
You practice your own religion and you are bound by it.


>2- Under Islam I am considered as a second class citizen.
>  a- I am not equal to all citizens
>  b- I am "protected" and not a free independant citizen
>  c- etc. etc.

Can you produce proofs of unequality ?
As far as protected, Non-Muslims AND Muslims are protected by the state.
A Non-Muslim is a free (he is not a slave) independent citizen as long
as he/she obeys the laws (much like a Muslim).
You are equal to all citizens in that you have your rights and you have
your oblgations, you are guaranteed not to have any of your rights
violated and not to have any obligation imposed on you that will produce
hardship on your part.
about the tec. etc. unless you are more specific I cannot clarify them.

>3- it is forbidden for Muslims to convert and become non-muslims

Sure and that's not in the rights of Non-Muslims as much as it is in the
rights of Muslims. Why should you (a Non-Muslim) feel threatened to be a
citizen in a state where people from another group have some laws
applicable to them (that are not applicable to you) ?
It seems to me that the Muslims should voice their objections (if any)
to this. In fact, before becoming a Muslim you are told that you should
be 100% sure that you are accepting Islam because you beleive it is the
true religion and not for anything else. To make you understand the
seriousness of that you are told BEFOREHAND that you may not go out ONCE
you go in. You are left with your choice and you CANNOT be coerced to
choose.

>4- etc. etc.

Well, again be more specific :-)
>
>Rached, history is full of all kinds of stories, some are positive others are
>not. THerfore refering to Spain as an example, it is possible to refere to
>Arabia and other places where Christians were not well treated and where Jews
>were not as welcome.
Elie ,
For the benefit of all of us, can you tell us how CHRISTIANS were not
well treated in Arabia ? (Please give examples from the time when there
was an Islamic State ruling that area).
Also can you give examples about Jews being not as welcome ?
As far as I know and have studied, there were very few Christians in Arabia at
the  time of the first Islamic State in Medina. One of them was the Son
of Hatem Al-Taii (the well known generous man), he didn't like that his
tribe accepted Islam and went North because he couldn't stand the idea.
Then he came back and met with the prophet (peace be upon him) and
discussed (very openly and frankly) Islam and the parts pertaining to
christianity with him. Afterwards he accepted Islam and became a Sahabi
(Companion to tyhe prophet), the story is well known and mentioned in
Bukhari (I think). So you see Non-Muslims in an Islamic State can even
debate with Muslims about Islam.
About Jews, the history of the first Islamic state is full with treateis
made by the Prophet (peace be upon him) and many tribes of the Jews.
Also history shows that Jews were always the ones to break the treaties
and align themselves with the enemies of the state. History also shows
that the Prophet (peace be upon him) fought them only after they broke
their treaties with him and they were driven out of Arabia because of
their constant pattern of treaty breaking and deceipt towards the
Muslims.
>
>Every empire has had its golden age, and all have had their ages of babary!
>
Yes Elie and here we are not speaking about Empires as we are speaking
about the rights and duties of Non Muslims in an Islamic State.
>
>
>elie wardini