HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: von hayes
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:35:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.040249.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvadrcar@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>What had happened to Von Hayes of the California Angels?

He was released in late August.  Thank Heavens.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@pico.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:41:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.182056.1015@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.235038.9656@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.150210.1135@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct2.211553.24079@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>>>[Problem is, SLG doesn't include walks.]
>>>
>>>?? This doesn't address the statement at all. And if you're looking at 
>>>"problems", it might be pointed out that OBP gives exactly the same weight
>>>to HR as to walks.
>>
>>This is absurd.  OBP is not attempting to measure a player's overall
>
>Now, it's no more "absurd" than saying "the problem with SLG is that it doesn't
>include walks", now is it?
>
Semantics.  Actually, I can't say that SLG "should" or "shouldn't" include
something.  What we *mean* is that we tend to judge players by how often
they get on base (as opposed to making an out), and how much they advance
others (and themselves).  The first part is clearly OBP, and the second
is *mostly* SLG, and is certainly more like SLG than anything else we've
got readily available.

>
>>>>Of course it can.  But if two players have the same OPS but different OBP and
>>>>SLG, you should take the higher OBP, unless it's an extreme case like a taller
>>>>version of Eddie Gaedel.
>>>
>>>Nope. Way too many exceptions (even at the team level) to make a statement like
>>>that. I'd take a guy that matched my team's needs the best.
>>
>>That's probably true, but most teams in the majors (if not all) need OBP
>>more than they need SLG, so therefore OBP is more valuable.
>
>?? It depends on your team. As both contribute to scoring (and BTW, for the
>most part, they are the same thing) it would depend on your team's needs. 
>Another high OBPer behind Thomas isn't going to drive him in any more often.
>
Flat statement:  for all major league teams, past and present, OBP is
more valuable than SLG, point for point.  How much more valuable varies.
You might be able to make up a team for which that didn't apply (high
OBP, low SLG) but I want to see it before I'm convinced.

This doesn't mean you can't find roles for low-OBP sluggers, but that
the team would be better off with somebody of the same OPS and higher
OBP (who might well not be available, of course).

David Thornley
"The manager must see the players as they are, not as he would have
them be" - Niccolo Machiavelli
From: doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Screwed up announcer's call
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:11:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: galileo.1992Oct16.201150.29462
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

I really got the announcer's call wrong, it wasn't "BRAVES WIN THE PENNANT!...
etc. but "BRAVES WIN!!....etc".  My humblest apologies go out to the net and
to deriding Skip Caray for supposedly resorting to the great call from the '51
Giants/Dodgers playoff.  Instead he used one of his father's trademarks, still
lacks originality though.  Anyway, thanks to those who corrected my erroneous
ways.

Musings:  Deion is a first-class jerk!! (Should I now expect an ice-water bath?)

Jays should win in 7.

The Twins absolutely. positively, must sign Kirby Puckett

-David Oliver (doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Cito Manages reasonable in Game #1
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:15:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.220559.22405@news2.cis.umn.edu>, thornley@deci.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:
> In article <21067@plains.NoDak.edu> sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) writes:
>>
>>I agree that Cito threw away yesterday's game to the As.
>>Why Morris in the 9th when u have fire-ballers like Ward.
>>Why Morris when Larussa shows by example that he removes
>>Stewart and brings in Russel.
>>
> In the defense of Cito, why expect him to face down Morris when Kelly left
> him in through the tenth in a more critical game?  Morris does *not* want
> to leave the game, he wants to continue to pitch, and I can respect that
> in a guy.  He seems to intimidate managers into leaving him in too long,
> which is a problem, but players with determination are never going to
> be easy to manage.
> 
> David Thornley
> "You must never allow a pitcher to undermine your authority" - Niccolo
> Machiavelli
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: saevans@l_cae13.icaen.uiowa.edu (Scott A Evans,,,)
Subject: Re: I don't understand
Originator: saevans@l_cae13
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:18:44 GMT
Reply-To: saevans@icaen.uiowa.edu
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <BvvGI5.A4z@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, by rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets):
> In article <1992Oct9.171653.17399@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> doerfler@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Mark T. Doerfler) writes:
>>During last night's Oakland-Toronto game (game 2), the following situation took
>>place:
>>
>>	With one out and men on first and second, LaRoussa sends out the call 
>>for the double steal.  David Cone pitches a 59 footer and the ball bounces off
>>the catcher.  As the ball is bouncing towards the third-base dugout, the runner
Much needless stuff deleted.  My question is this.  It appeared as if the 
Toronto catcher could have made a play on the ball before it went into the
dugout, but didn't; probably understanding the rules a lot better that the
commentators.  That aside, does the non-attempt at playing the ball when the
opportunity presents itself to play the ball have any effect on the situation
presented here?  I doubt it, but it would be interesting to hear what all of
you in net-land feel about this.....

-- 
                                              / /  *\  
          Scott A Evans                      /0/ __O/  
     (saevans@icaen.uiowa.edu)      |TTTTTTTTTTTTTT\\T| 
       Grad Student For Life        |IIIIIIIIIIIIIII\\|  
     Sparks and Magic forever!      |      / \      / \  
                 o                  |     /  /      \ |\
              _ /-_                 |                 |  
             (_)>(_)             --------------------------
From: darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us (Darrell Crone) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Eck Chokes Again!!
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:34:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Ozone Hole BBS - New Orleans, LA - (504)891-3142 16800 Baud
Reply-To: darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us (Darrell Crone) 


|E>Sure was nice seeing Eck put on the ol choke collar again!
|E>pumpin the fist and growling at the Js bench after top
|E>of the 8th, and then give up the LONG ball to tie the game...
|E>serves him right.

|E>too bad the mvp and Cy votes have been cast, this As jerk
|E>doesn't quite deserve all the credit he's been getting.
|E>Go Js!

oh come off your High horse, (or is it Chair???) Eck has posted numbers
that NO other releiver ever has, and deserves both awards..I'm sure what
ever team you Root for would sure like a chance to aquire Eckersley, then
would you dislike him so much???... Hmmm.....

---
Darrell Crone              UseNet: darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us
HM2 (AW) USNR (TAR)       PCRelay: ->OZONE R/O OK
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #1276s . Oakland A's in 92.
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 19:37:56 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: john birch society
 <1992Oct11.215214.19671@ee.gatech.edu> <1992Oct12.225049.5470@sco.COM>

no, i don't know what piece of baseball history eric show will always
be remembered for.  please enlighten me.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:27:35 EDT
From: <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Lind wins gold glove

And to make matters more unbelievable, it's been announced that Jose Lind
has won the Gold Glove this season, ending Sandberg's reign of 9 years in
a row.  This just makes it even more difficult to accept (the loss) - sigh!
Life goes on.  Go Penguins!!!  3-Peat!!!  Mario is Pittsburgh's No. 1 star!
-Rob
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 1992 20:43:17 -0400 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Don't Panic Yet

Last year when the Pirates lost, I punched a hole in a wall, threatened
to kill someone and was literally in a bad mood for over a week.

That won't happen this year.  Atlanta is a stronger team than the
Pirates.  I don't think that there is anything wrong with admitting
that.  Still, I don't think this thing is over.

After the first at bat against Smoltz, Bonds has looked better each time
up.  He got his first hit out of his system and has drawn a couple of
walks.  I don't deny for a second that he changes his approach in post
season.  His strike zone expands and he swings earlier in the count at
borderline pitches and chases the high inside fastball.  I think he has
realized that and tried to make adjustments in the last couple at bats
in game 2.  I think he will at least have better at bats the rest of the
way.  Van Slyke should start getting some heat also.

I would play Don Slaught the rest of the way.  I  think it is safe to
say that Don is going to hit better than LaValliere no matter who
pitches.  

I would play Cole over Redus.  Redus has swung at the first pitch just
about every at bat and done nothing.  That would leave McClendon at
first base where he has not played much this year, but I am willing to
take that risk at this point.  (against lefties).

Danny Jackson against the Braves is a bad matchup.  They have scorched
him all year.  Tomlin is the logical replacement.  A healthy Zane Smith
would help a lot.

I hope Denny Neagle has pitched his last post season inning.  I wish
they had integrated Steve Cooke into the pitching staff a hell of a lot
earlier in the season.  I have to believe he would be more effective
than some of these clowns.

The reason I am still optimistic is because Bonds has looked better. 
King has hit a couple balls hard that did not fall in.  The Braves
bullpen is hittable.  The Pirates have at least scored some runs, so Tim
McCarver can shut up with his consecutive innings without scoring 3
runs.  Wakefield and Drabek are capable of tying this thing up.  I have
game 5 tickets and I really hope they play it.
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Major League Baseball's Alltime Stolen Base Leaders
Date: 8 Oct 92 04:38:45 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

The first man to steal 1000 bases, highlighted the season here.  Tim
Raines crept his way into the top 10 and Ozzie Smith got number 500.  

A few milestones reached:
	1000	Rickey Henderson
	 600	Vince Coleman
	 500	Ozzie Smith
	 400	Brett Butler and Paul Molitor
	 300	Ryne Sandberg, Willie McGee, and Otis Nixon

Next year's possible milestone:
	 750	Tim Raines
	
Major League Baseball's Alltime Stolen Base Leaders

 * - active player,
 R - active last year but not currently on a major league roster

 1.	Rickey Henderson       1042*
 2.	Lou Brock		938
 3.	Billy Hamilton		912
 4.	Ty Cobb			892
 5.	Eddie Collins		743
 6.	Arlie Latham		739
 7.	Max Carey		738
 8.	Tim Raines		730*
 9.	Honus Wagner		722
10.	Joe Morgan		689
11.	Willie Wilson		660*
12.	Tom Brown		657
13.	Bert Campaneris		649
14.	George Davis		616
15.	Vince Coleman		610*
16.	Dummy Hoy		594
17.	Maury Wills		586
18.	George VanHaltren	583
19.	Hugh Duffy		574
20.	Bid McPhee		568
21.	Davey Lopes		557
22.	Cesar Cedeno		550
23.	Ozzie Smith		542*
24.	Bill Dahlen		547
25.	Monte Ward		540
26.	Herman Long		534
27.	Patsy Donovan		518
28.	Jack Doyle		515
29.	Harry Stovey		509
30.	Luis Aparicio		506
30.	Fred Clarke		506
32.	Willie Keeler		495
33.	Clyde Milan		494
34.	Omar Moreno		487
35.	Mike Griffin		473
36.	Tommy McCarthy		468
37.	Jimmy Sheckard		465
38.	Bobby Bonds		461
39.	Ed Delahanty		455
39.	Ron LeFlore		455
41.	Curt Welch		453
42.	Joe Kelley		443
43.	Sherry Magee		441
44.	Brett Butler		437*
44.	Steve Sax		437*
46.	John McGraw		436
47.	Tris Speaker		433
48.	Bob Bescher		428
48.	Mike Tiernan		428
50.	Charlie Comiskey	419
50.	Frankie Frisch		419
52.	Jimmy Ryan		418
53.	Paul Molitor		412*
54.	Tommy Harper		408
55.	Donie Bush		405
56.	Frank Chance		401
---------------------------------------------------------------
Other active players (more than 200):
	Lonnie Smith		360*
	Gary Pettis		353*
	Juan Samuel		349*
	Mookie Wilson		327R
	Gary Redus		318*
	Ryne Sandberg		314*
	Andre Dawson		310*
	Willie McGee		307*
	Otis Nixon		305*
	Lloyd Moseby		280R
	Willie Randolph		271*
	Eric Davis		266*
	Robin Yount		262*
	Kirk Gibson		256*
	Von Hayes		253*
	Barry Bonds		251*
	Tony Gywnn		249*
	Gary Templeton		242R
	Harold Reynolds		228*
	Carney Lansford		224*
	Julio Franco		220*
	Andy Van Slyke		220*
	Lenny Dykstra		220*
	Dave Winfield		218*
	Terry Puhl		217R
	Dan Gladden		214*
	Howard Johnson		213*
	Alan Trammell		212*
	Bill Doran		208*
	Darryl Strawberry	204*
	Ken Griffey, Sr.	200R
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: baseball@catch-the-fever.scd.ucar.edu (Gregg Walters)
Subject: Re: baseball trivia
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:31:53 GMT

In message 88716 of rec.sport.baseball,
mattc@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Matthew Chandross) writes >>

>> i was just looking through the final standings in the sporting news the
>> other day and i noticed that there was no team in either league that won
>> or lost 100 games this season.  has this ever happened before since
>> divisional play began?  interested in finding out...

I don't have an answer, but in "Men at Work", George Will
cites a trend in a related statistic - a decrease in the
margin by which division winners are winning divisions -
as evidence suggesting increasing parity.  He believes that
this and other factors suggests an overall improvement in
the quality of play by all players, and speculated that
future expansion teams won't therefore be 120 game losers -
"just" 100 to 105.

Gregg

(Waffling over whether to abandon the Cubs after 33 years of
loyalty, for the Rockies, who are breaking ground for their
new stadium just 10 miles from my house)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Subject: Re: The origin of the _World_ Series
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: history world series trivia newspaper
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.215411.2254@athena.mit.edu>, herrera@athena.mit.edu (Ramon F Herrera) writes...
> 
>Can somebody explain the origin of the name "World Series"?
>A friend of mine says that the first such competition
>was sponsored by some NYC newspaper called "The World". 
>Can anyone confirm/deny this?  Any references?
> 
>thanks,
> 
>-Ramon Herrera
> 
	Actually, the original "World Series" took place between Boston
and Pittsburgh in 1903; the new york papers had nothign to do with it.  At
the time, baseball was still the ONLY sport, and the owners of the two teams
in the rival American and National leagues decided to face each other in a
best 5-of-9 series, to determine the "World" champion.  At the time, the
name "World" made sense, since the team owners happened to think on a very
broad scale.
	Pittsburgh lost that first World Series, 5 games to 3.
	Go Braves ... oh shucks, Barry went deep

							Jason Miller
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Random musings upon perusing Baseball Weekly statistics
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:18:23 GMT

In article <steph.718501331@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>The McWeekly fielding statistics made me wonder a little bit:
>
>Why no 1bmen range factors?  Couldn't we at least make a guess from assists?
>--
>Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
>
>  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
>   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball

No. A mobile first baseman is going to turn a lot of ground balls into
3U putouts; a less mobile one, who still catches the ball, tosses to
the pitcher for a 3-1 assist.

This is why I really, really want to see unassisted putouts separated
from putouts in the fielding stats.

Clay D.
From: mcclure@wild.ucis.vill.edu (MCCLURE HAROLD)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: RE: Lesley Vissar
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:23:00 GMT
Organization: Villanova University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In defense of Ms. Vissar, it is her assignment to do the human interest stuff.
We just heard a defense of Tim McCarver that his stuff comes from the direction
of CBS management; so does hers. If you ever get to hear her doing real sports, 
you will note that she is as good as hubbie and better than most of the rest of
the CBS staff. I HATE human interest ESPESCIALLY that garbage during NBC's
olympic coverage. Give me the track coverage without cutting into laps 3,4,5
of the woman's 3000 meters anyday over how many hours someone sleeps or how
often some else parties, please. 

I do want to defend not only Lesley's performances as well as a past NBC
director for a simple reason. This same CBS crowd decided years ago that it
would be woman's liberationness to have a couple of beauty queens do NFL
football. Had Phyllis George and Jane Kennedy known anything about the game
or even cared about it, that would have been a wonderful decision. Instead, it
probably turned off several males who care about football to the idea of having
incompetents broadcast sports. Incompetents shouldn't be allowed to broadcast, 
but people like Gayle Gardner (NBCs selection) should. Do women belong in the
locker room and the broadcast booth? YES, and please pick the ones who are 
qualified and let them do SPORTS. In other words, stop the pandering.
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Flannel Is A Religion Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The 1992 Ex-Cub All-Stars
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:34:58 GMT
Organization: Machiavelli's Copyright Lawyers, Inc.

Anderson, Peter John in Blickhanville writes:

>It's that time of year again, when all of us sufferers sigh and say,
>"What might have been..."
>
>C-  Damon Berryhill (10 HR, 43 RBI)
>1B- Rafael Palmeiro (.268, 22 HR, 85 RBI)
>2B- Scott Fletcher (.275, 17 SB)
>SS- Curtis Wilkerson (.250, 18 SB)
>3B- Chico Walker (.289, 15 SB)
>OF- Joe Carter (34 HR, 119 RBI, 12 SB)
>OF- Darrin Jackson (17 HR, 70 RBI, 14 SB)
>OF- George Bell (25 HR, 112 RBI)
>OF- Mel Hall (.280, 15 HR, 81 RBI)
>SP- Bob Tewksbury (16-5, 2.16 ERA, 20 BB in 33 starts)
>SP- Rick Sutcliffe (16-15, 4.47 ERA, 5 complete games)
>RP- Dennis Eckersley (7-1, 1.91 ERA, 51 saves)
>RP- Lee Smith (4-9, 3.12 ERA, 43 saves)

Whoopee.  This offense is probably MORE pathetic than the Cub's
current offense, and that's saying something.  Four outfielders, and
the LEADING OBP among them is .310!  And the Dp combination of
Wilkserson/Fletcher fails to induce the desired fear in opposing
pitchers.  The offense looks like downtown STIFF CITY to me, much like
the current Cubs offense.

>What the Cubs currently have to show for the above transactions:
>Turk Wendell, Luis Salazar, Sammy Sosa, Ken Patterson, Bob Scanlan,
>Chuck McElroy

Not the end of the world. I like McElroy, and Wendell's certainly not
a waste of skin.  Sosa COULD have some value, but isn't going to be a
great player.


>2. Tewksbury and Eckersley were, admittedly, worthless at the time the
>Cubs dumped them.

Eck, yes.  Tewksbury, I don't believe so.  

>3. Note the Rolaids Relief Man of the Year in both leagues was an ex-Cub.
>Think Lefebvre would have used a committee with either of these guys around?

Lefebvre may be clueless about an offense, but he handles pitchers
fairly well.  I would think that Cub fans would be very happy with the
pitching the Cubs had this past season.  Instead, they're jubilant
about Andre's 'fine' season.

There's no accounting for taste.


-- 
*         Gary Huckabay            *            Mailing Address:          *
* "Shares more mailing lists with  * glhuckabay@elvis.is.alive.muttonchop *
*    Steven Hambric than Roger     * beaarthur@jack.benny.in.a.dress.brrr *
*          Lustig does."           * basketball@boring.no.defense.dullard *
From: lewine@mirage.rtp.dg.com (Eric Lewine)
Subject: Video of 1986 Game 6
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:14:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

Does anyone out there have a video tape of game 6 of the 1986
World Series, Mets vs. Red Sox?  I'd be willing to negotiate 
some kind of deal to get this (cash or trade).

Please respond by e-mail, thanks.

-- 
Eric Lewine
lewine@dg-rtp.dg.com
From: tj06+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas J. Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: What if there had been extra innings
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:07:45 GMT
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Now that would have been interesting. Cox had exhausted his bench and
would have shifted some players. The Bucs had subbed McClendon for cole
and had batted Espy. They still had some guys left, and had their 
defense intact.

tom
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NLCS Game #5 at 9:41
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:34:20 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <7519@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.032828.9604@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>>>Once again we see that a WALK is definitely not as vaulable as a HIT.

>>Once again, we see people setting up straw men.  Nobody ever said it was, 
>>unless there's a man on first and he's slow.

>With all due respect folks, no one may have used the exact wording but, many
>here have argued that OBP is a more important stat that batting 
average, or rbisetc and no matter how you slice it 
that argument - OBP > BA - boils down to
>walks are as important as hits.

NO!  You are making an unreasonable leap here.  Saying that OBP is 
more informative than BA makes no claim that walks are more 
important than hits.  It DOES say that measuring non-outs is more 
important than measuring hits to the exclusion of other non-outs.
The difference is crystal clear to me, no matter how you slice it.


>Simply not true!  

Agreed, walks are not as valuable as hits.

>Walks CAN be as vauluable as hits but that depends on the 
>circumstances.  And since a cummulative number like OBP tells you nothing
>about how, when or why a walk was obtained it is an utterly meaningless stat
>by itself.

Does BA tell you more?

...
>Bonds was collecting walks - his OBP must have been 
>decent - the Braves were glad to let him have them and it contributed in no way
>to the teams effort.

In NO WAY?   WAY!


>>But then again, it's infinitely better than an out.


>Why is it?  With a man on third a out the walk and the out produce exactly
>the same result - NO RUN!

But the walk leaves the runner on third and extends the inning, 
allowing the next batter to get a chance.  If they all continue
to not make outs, that runner on third is gonna score.


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029