HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen)
Subject: Re: 400 meter track
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 06:47:22 GMT

In article <102121@netnews.upenn.edu> sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella) writes:
>I have a similar question to the one asked by the 200m track
>person.  I was wondering which lane I have to be in so that
>an integral number of laps equals one mile.  I know that
>a mile is about 1609m so that four laps is damn close to 
>a mile but when I'm timing myself I don't want an approximation
>to the pace.  I realize I can figure out my pace later, but
>I like to know while I'm running.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Diane


Since the straightaways are the same length no matter what lane
you're in, the extra distance you will run all comes from the wider
turns.  If these turns are in the shape of a circle, as some people
seem to think, then you want the four larger circles you run (one
circle per lap) to account for the difference between 1600m and
one mile, which is 9.344m.  This idea is expressible as

        4 * (2p(r+x)) - 4 * (2pr)    =    9.344m,

where p stands for pi, r is the radius of the inside of Lane 1,
and x is how far outside of the inside of Lane 1 you run.  Then

                    8p(r+x) - 8pr    =    9.344m

                  8pr + 8px - 8pr    =    9.344m

                              8px    =    9.344m

                                x    =    9.344m/8p

which is about 37.178595 centimeters, or roughly 14.6 inches.  I
think this will still put you inside Lane 1.

Oh!  It occurred to me that you might want to run a mile every
three laps, or even two.  Well, the lanes don't go out that far.


Also, if the turns really aren't in the shape of a circle then
I'm afraid I can't help you.

On an unrelated note, I would like to collect some opinions.
I read in this week's Sports Illustrated that Carole Zajac of
Villanova recently won the NCAA women's cross-country meet,
where she ran 17:01.9 for 3.1M.  The same article mentions
that she is the NCAA record-holder for 10,000 meters, with
a time of 32:22.96.  This surprised me!  But then, I am inexperienced.
Are the times usually that much slower for cross-country courses.


Also, can anyone tell me how to get in touch with Gwyn Coogan?


e.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: strobel@ssgv02.enet.dec.com (Jeff Strobel)
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Reply-To: strobel@ssgv02.enet.dec.com (Jeff Strobel)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: tex
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:10:57 GMT

I've had success with fig newtons, bananas and power bars (not all at
the same time!) on long runs. The newtons tend to hold up well with the
jarring that occurs while running. I'll have one around 13-14 miles,
maybe a 2nd around 19 miles and perhaps another 2-3 miles later
depending on how I feel.

I find the power Bar, for convenience, is better before the run than
during as it's more difficult to open and chew than the newtons. 

jeff
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer)
Subject: Re: Reasons needed for running
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 15:46:29 GMT

rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush ) writes:

>In article <15890051@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jgr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Rohrbaugh) writes:
>>
>>Ken Cooper said something to the effect of, "If you are running more than
>>3 miles 3-4 times a week, you are doing it for reasons other than your
>>health". 
>That is absolutely false.  The health benefits from running are greater
>the more you run, even up to 10 or more miles a day (if you know what
>you
>are doing and don't hurt yourself and take care of yourself
>otherwise).  People always say that you only need to run for about 30
>minutes 3-4 times a week because that is about the level past which
>the marginal returns on you running investment decrease most
>drastically, BUT THEY STILL EXIST!
o
For more info on this subject, see the January issue of Runner's World.  In it
Cooper outlines some guideleines for fitness and percent reduction in causes of
death versus fitness levels.  Although I don't uunderstand it fully, Cooper's
22 years of research show that people who run 20-30 miles per week (4-6 days)
have a 65 % reductio while people who run more than 40 miles/week (7 days) 
have a 60 % reduction on causes of death.  This would suggest there is some
sort of law of diminishing returns.  This is some ways refutes what you have
said.  As for me, I agree with something else that Cooper said.  He said that
even if exercise didn't add anything to the quantity of life, it adds to the
quality of life, and this is why I returned to running, because it provides
me a daily example of seeing myself set goals and achieve them.  So, even ig
my work is lousy, I can shed my frustrations by going out and hitting the
road, so to sepak.

Magdi N. Azer
magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jbv@IMD.Sterling.COM (James B Vacanti)
Subject: Knee cartilage and running
Summary: Still runn after cartilage removal? 
Keywords: cartilage removal, knee, run  
Organization: Sterling Software
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:10:33 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 2dc7d3096c81ee5fedfde7d95c890e38

Does anyone out there have experience with running after having cartilage
removed from one's knee?  I tore some cartilage (medial meniscus) this 
summer and had it removed in Oct. The Dr. said he only removed as little
as possible to relieve the pain, and leave as much as possible for the
cushening that the cartilage was supposed to provide. Even so, he suggested
that I not run (so did the PTt because it could still cause arthritis .
They told me that before arthroscopy that they used to remove ALL of the
cartilage and that you would definately get arthritis. 
I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has been thru this.
                                 Thanks,
-- 
Jim Vacanti   Grew up on IBM :-) mainframes, now I must learn UNIX(tm) :-(   
Sterling Software IMD    /*=============================================*/
uunet!sparky!jbv         /* "If you're not part of the solution, then   */
jbv@IMD.Sterling.COM     /*     you're part of the problem."   (??)     */
From: wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:22:40 GMT
Reply-To: wolf@first.gmd.de
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin
In-reply-to: spit@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com's message of 15 Dec 92 19:14:43 GMT

In article <BzBEsJ.1G2q@austin.ibm.com> spit@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer) writes:


   I, as others are in this newsgroup, am training for the Houston marathon in January.
   My training's been going fine so far:  speed work on schedule, long runs more or less
   on schedule.  Problem is, that my long runs get me so hungry, that I can't concentrate
   on finishing.  I usually run in the morning and don't eat anything before, fearing
   stomach cramps if I did.  After 2-3 hours of fairly strenuous activity, I'm famished.
   Do most of y'all eat during your long runs?  If so, what?  I'd think that you'd want
   to eat something with the highest amount of calories possible, no?  Well, not highest,
   maybe...  I can't imagine eating anything with too much fat.  How about those PowerBars
   and things?  Do they seem to process (digest) pretty quickly?  Any comments appreciated!

Hello John,

if I have to run in the morning I do it like you, with an empty stomach, at
the most, one cup of coffee is possible.
Of course, after running 2 or 3 hours it may occur that I feel a little
hungry.
However, I have always thought it not real hunger, since one cannot utilize 
the food inside the stomach for calories burning in the muscles.
But, if you have a real decreased level of glucose in your blood which may
occur during very long runs, you should probably eat something.
I don't know the english term, in german we call it "Hunger Ast" and it's
quite disturbing !
You even can't help continously *thinking* about eating !

The best food I found for me for these case are bananas and raisins.
They are very fast utilized in the stomach.

Hope it helps a little bit

wolf
   


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science
From: reidyj@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:48:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1gm1svINNo39
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <47313@ogicse.ogi.edu> milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl) writes:
>In article <BzBEsJ.1G2q@austin.ibm.com> spit@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer) writes:
>>
 
 I agree with Milt says.  I eat like a pig on long runs.  My
 favorites are colas WITH, fruit bars, and (believe it or not)
 apples.  If I can get some OJ on teh run, I'll do a gallon!

 Some ultra guys do M&Ms (W&W??), but I don't like the fatty taste
 and I'm not much of a chololate freak.

 Try taking some ERG with you on runs and see how you do.  Also, I'd
 never do long (or even short) runs in the a.m. without eating at
 least a piece of bread or a pancake.  Remember, you haven't eaten
 since dinner time last night, and your energy level should be pretty
 low.
Newsgroups: rec.running,rec.sport.triathlon,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.sport.swimming
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Sports 1 International
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:14:22 GMT

We all have heard or experienced stories relating the poor service
received from catalog shops.  I thought I'd relate a good experience
with the above shop.  I ordered two pairs of running shorts, two
racing (swim) suits, and a running shirt on 12/15.  They indicated
that the shorts were in stock, but the rest was on order, and they'd
send the shorts.  They arrived at work today (12/17) via UPS!  Inside
was a complete description of the status of the order, including a
statement of how much had been charged to my VISA, and what the total
would be.  Since I'd ordered 5 items, and > $100, shipping was free
(either condition is sufficient).

The catalog has everything from goggles, swimsuits, and kickboards, to
bike pumps, cycling shorts, a $3750 Quintana Roo tri-bike, and HED/ZIPP
disk/trispoke wheels, to just about anything you want.

Phone is (800) 255-1027, 8am-8pm EST (they are in Greenville, NC).  I
don't work for them, or receive anything (but good service so far) from
them for this endorsement.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: spit@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer)
Subject: Eating on long runs 
Originator: spit@hookipa.austin.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:14:43 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin


I, as others are in this newsgroup, am training for the Houston marathon in January.
My training's been going fine so far:  speed work on schedule, long runs more or less
on schedule.  Problem is, that my long runs get me so hungry, that I can't concentrate
on finishing.  I usually run in the morning and don't eat anything before, fearing
stomach cramps if I did.  After 2-3 hours of fairly strenuous activity, I'm famished.
Do most of y'all eat during your long runs?  If so, what?  I'd think that you'd want
to eat something with the highest amount of calories possible, no?  Well, not highest,
maybe...  I can't imagine eating anything with too much fat.  How about those PowerBars
and things?  Do they seem to process (digest) pretty quickly?  Any comments appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
-- 
* ------------------------------------------------------------------- *
* Views expressed herein are entirely my own; any resemblance between *
* these views and those of my employer is purely coincidental.        *
* ------------------------------------------------------------------- *
From: ztac18@hou.amoco.com (Tom Chaimov WWNV x5076 9.134)
Subject: why'd I die @ 14 mi?
Reply-To: ztac18@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:33:10 GMT

Help me figure this one out, you smart people:

I've been running the local warm up races for a late January marathon.  Three warm
up races, a 20K, 25K, and 30K.  I ran the 20K in what was, for me, a pretty
good pace.  Felt good.  The 25K went even better.  One of the best races I'd
ever run.  Went out pretty fast and maintained til the end.  But the 30K...
I went out conservatively, but absolutely died at about mile 14!  I got
stomach cramps, wanted to throw up, and my legs just siezed up.  My suspicion/
hope:  I just had a bad day.  If you have a different idea, offer your
own opinions on why I choked, and, more importantly, on how I make sure I don't
do this again when the marathon rolls around.

Salient info:  Yes, I'd run 18+ miles befor the 30K.  No, I didn't change my
eating habits or just return from Mexico the day before.  30K ourse surface:
100% concrete, flat as a pancake.  Weather was fine.

Happy running,
   -Tom-
From: stx2044@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Jogging partner needed.
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:24:33 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

I am a guy in my early twenties and I'm looking for a joggong partner in the
Toledo area. I am a pretty good jogger with a decent pace and pretty
interesting person. If interested please send me a email.


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: Re: Reasons needed for running
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 15:49:25 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec19.031114.15436@mic.ucla.edu> rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush ) writes:
>In article <15890051@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jgr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Rohrbaugh) writes:
>>
>>Ken Cooper said something to the effect of, "If you are running more than
>>3 miles 3-4 times a week, you are doing it for reasons other than your
>>health". 
>That is absolutely false.  The health benefits from running are greater
>the more you run, even up to 10 or more miles a day (if you know what
>you
>are doing and don't hurt yourself and take care of yourself
>otherwise). 
	But the rate of injury begins to rise dramatically as you
start increasing your distance dramatically.
> People always say that you only need to run for about 30
>minutes 3-4 times a week because that is about the level past which
>the marginal returns on you running investment decrease most
>drastically, BUT THEY STILL EXIST!
	Agreed.  I personally prefer to run more than 30 or 40 minutes
simply because then you can get further away.  In fact, 45 minutes of
slow-running (barely aerobic) promotes weight-loss (a good reason to
run just for exercise and not for the joy of running) by burning more
fat.
	But new research is beginning to show (from _Runner's World_)
that 30 to 40 minutes of *hard* running can maintain fitness derived
from much longer runs. 
	So for *just* exercises, the risks at which you are putting
yourself does not, IMHO, justify the small health gains.  Performance
gains?  Yes.  Enjoyment gains?  Yes.  Enorphins?  YES! :-)  But not
exercise.



Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 06:40:11 GMT

In article <1gm1svINNo39@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> reidyj@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) writes:
>In article <47313@ogicse.ogi.edu> milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl) writes:
>>In article <BzBEsJ.1G2q@austin.ibm.com> spit@innerdoor.austin.ibm.com (John F. Spitzer) writes:
>>>
> 
> I agree with Milt says.  I eat like a pig on long runs.  My
> favorites are colas WITH, fruit bars, and (believe it or not)
> apples.  If I can get some OJ on teh run, I'll do a gallon!
>
> Some ultra guys do M&Ms (W&W??), but I don't like the fatty taste
> and I'm not much of a chololate freak.
>
> Try taking some ERG with you on runs and see how you do.  Also, I'd
> never do long (or even short) runs in the a.m. without eating at
> least a piece of bread or a pancake.  Remember, you haven't eaten
> since dinner time last night, and your energy level should be pretty
> low.

I don't believe much in eating before you run in the morning.  In my experience
my body has stored more than enough calories for me to run as far as 13-18
miles first thing in the morning without eating a thing.  I've probably 
bonked no more than twice in 100 runs of over 10 miles.  Besides, eating
one pancake provides you with maybe 150 calories, which are gone after 1 1/2 
miles.

Bill



Newsgroups: rec.running
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: 3 Re: Running with Knapsack
Organization: Motorola
Date: 11 Dec 1992 08:26:16 CST

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>I tried running to my weightlifting with a knapsack this summer, but I
>had problems with soreness in my shoulders. Does anybody has a
>solution to this problem? Is it just a question of minimising the
>movent of the knapsack, a cheap one, or?

Try leaving your weights at the gym instead of carrying them in a
knapsack! ;)  I bought a Mountainsmith "fanny pack" which is fairly
large, and has wide padded straps and adjustments.  I have done some
trail running with it, and it's about as unobtrusive as anything as
big could possibly be.  I also turn it around and use it for light
items I want to access while I'm wearing my full backpack.  Looks
like a bright red beer-belly, but adds a lot of capacity.

Mark (on your left) Hickey
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: bleitch@bcarh407.bnr.ca (Brendan Leitch)
Subject: Stress Fracture Recovery
Reply-To: bleitch@bcarh407.bnr.ca (Brendan Leitch)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:00:47 GMT

Two weeks ago I was diagnosed as having a stress fracture in the
mid-shaft of the left tibia bone(Bone Scan Results).  This is the
most common place for stress fractures in distance runners.  I was
told 10 weeks of NO running with the first 4 weeks of no physical
stress on it at all.  I have some questions for others who may have
suffered the same fate:

  - what root cause did you discover if any
  - how did you correct the root cause
  - how long were you off running
  - what other exercises did you do to prepare yourself for 
    resumption of training
  - how quickly after resuming running did you reach your previous
    average weekly mileage
  - did you incur any antagonistic injuries as a result of root
    cause corrections
  - did the original injury re-occur at all, even with proper rest
    and recovery
  - what else should I expect ???

All comments appreciated,  - Brendan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan R. Leitch                           Bell Northern Research Ltd.
DMS Supernode Distributed Operating Systems       (The Big Nerd Ranch)

E-mail: bleitch@bnr.ca
Voice: (613) 763-9425            FAX: (613) 763-8864
        ESN: 393-9425                  ESN: 393-8864
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Eating on long runs
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:54:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47369
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

In article lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
>I don't believe much in eating before you run in the morning.  In my experience
>my body has stored more than enough calories for me to run as far as 13-18
>miles first thing in the morning without eating a thing.  I've probably 
>bonked no more than twice in 100 runs of over 10 miles.  Besides, eating
>one pancake provides you with maybe 150 calories, which are gone after 1 1/2 
>miles.
>
>Bill
I don't quite agree with the last.  When you run your digestive tract
does'nt process food at near the same rate - for one thing you have 
all that blood diverted to the leg muscles.  That 150 cal. pancake
might really last two or three times longer.  In fact I find that on
_really_ long runs it is best to eat more complex carbos. and even
some fats, so that the energy available from the foods lasts over a
longer period.  I might also add that 100 calories can make the difference
between bonking and completing a run. When you're deleted that 100 cal.
of sugar, chocolate, whatever makes an astounding difference (voice
of experience talking there).

milt scholl
From: sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: 400 meter track
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:55:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I have a similar question to the one asked by the 200m track
person.  I was wondering which lane I have to be in so that
an integral number of laps equals one mile.  I know that
a mile is about 1609m so that four laps is damn close to 
a mile but when I'm timing myself I don't want an approximation
to the pace.  I realize I can figure out my pace later, but
I like to know while I'm running.

Thanks.

Diane
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Pain in hamsting
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:01:36 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <sf_Ik8C00WBKI6TXZC@andrew.cmu.edu> Richard Darrell Hayes <rh2u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>       I have pain in my hamstring, from this area, about midpoint and
>towards the inside, everything below it to the knee is tight and hurts
>when I'm running.  The pain I have is a buring sensation and muscles
>(hamstring and calf) that get tight and spasm.  I also have the pain in
>my hamsting when i sit for extended periods of time.  I've tried heating
>pads, ultrasound, diathermy, and even rest, but nothing seems to help. 
>Any ideas?  I would like to get running again as soon as possible as not
>to miss much of the indoor season.

    Perhaps this is asking the obvious, but how is your flexibility?  I has
similar problems, and nothing helped until I got *very serious* about
stretching.  Happily, after a couple of months of intensive stretching, I
have made a lot of progress and can usually run pain-free.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Xref: sparky rec.running:3674 rec.sport.triathlon:1538 rec.bicycles.misc:1668 rec.sport.swimming:1054
From: gchow@hawai.inria.fr (Gloria Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.running,rec.sport.triathlon,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.sport.swimming
Subject: Re: Sports 1 International
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:52:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <1992Dec17.191422.23284@walter.bellcore.com>, kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
|> We all have heard or experienced stories relating the poor service
|> received from catalog shops.  I thought I'd relate a good experience
|> with the above shop.  I ordered two pairs of running shorts, two
|> racing (swim) suits, and a running shirt on 12/15.  They indicated
|> that the shorts were in stock, but the rest was on order, and they'd
|> send the shorts.  They arrived at work today (12/17) via UPS!  Inside
|> was a complete description of the status of the order, including a
|> statement of how much had been charged to my VISA, and what the total
|> would be.  Since I'd ordered 5 items, and > $100, shipping was free
|> (either condition is sufficient).
|> 
|> The catalog has everything from goggles, swimsuits, and kickboards, to
|> bike pumps, cycling shorts, a $3750 Quintana Roo tri-bike, and HED/ZIPP
|> disk/trispoke wheels, to just about anything you want.
|> 
|> Phone is (800) 255-1027, 8am-8pm EST (they are in Greenville, NC).  I
|> don't work for them, or receive anything (but good service so far) from
|> them for this endorsement.

I am living in France now, and would you have any idea whether I can 
order from aboard??  Thanks in advance.

Gloria
Newsgroups: rec.running