HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smalin@well.sf.ca.us (Stephen Malinowski)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:55:08 GMT


> In all this discussion I am surprised no one has mentioned the pretty
> little program recently advertised here which gives graphical
> representations of many different temperaments: TANTRUM by
> smalin@well.sf.ca.us (Stephen Malinowski).  (I hope he won't mind the
> advertisement ;-}  .)

Not at all.  In addition to the original IBMPC version (12-pitch),
I made an IBM version that can do any number of pitches per octave
and multiple whole-number-ratio tunings, plus a Mac 12-pitch version
with lots more historical tunings from Jorgenson's book.  Anybody
who's interested should email me.

Stephen
(smalin@well.sf.ca.us)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Subject: Re: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:56:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.061425.25782@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>
>Someone was asking about great discoveries of 1992.  Well poking
>around in the CD collection in my public library and trying to expand
>my world a bit, I grab a 2 CD set of Mahler's 3rd Symphony, conducted
>by Bernstein and the NYPO.  Wow!  I have heard this before, but it
>never had this impact -- maybe a tribute to Bernstein.  So I am off
>
This is my favorite 3rd, by far.
>I have the mahler.txt by Mr. Barker as well as the Penguin Guide,
>
Use the former more than the latter. :)

>Mahler Symphony #8 -- Atlanta Symphony Orch. Shaw -- on Telarc label.
>	This one tempts me, but I haven't purchased it ... yet.
>	Should I?
>
Try first the Solti/Chicago recording (DECCA, 1972?).  The sound is as
good as some digital recordings, but that's the last thing you'll care
about - Solti's reading is so powerful it'll leave you breathless.

>Mahler Symphony #5 -- Solti, Chicago Symphony -- London (Decca) 1991
>	This one already got me -- It is well recorded but it is
>	the only #5 I have ever heard, so I have nothing to compare
>	it to.  Comments?  Have I missed something else really superb?

Yes - the analog Solti/Chicago recording, among others.  I don't want
to sound anti-digital here, but IMHO these are the best two recordings
of these two works.  The playing in the old Solti 5 is quite noticably
better than in the live digital one.  And both are "late analog", so you
aren't sacrificing much at all.  Also, you can get the 5th on "The Solti
Edition" series, now (a budget line of classic Solti recordings on Decca).

Hope this helps! :)


-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote
From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Uses of technology was Re: The Roman "Tosca"
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:19:45 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

I would think even Bach himself would have used synthesizers, etc.  
Near his death he was composing for the lute I believe, although 
pianos still weren't good enough for his approval.

What's always fascinated me was what if these composers had access to
digital sequencers, in which anything they played could be recorded,
sheet music printed out, published, etc.  Just think of the enormous
volume of works, especially for composers as prolific as Bach, Mozart,
and Haydn.

--

Carl Christensen                      christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu
Department of Computer Science
Temple University
Philadelphia, PA  19122   USA         (215) 735-6787
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Brahms Basher Repents
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:08:10 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

  Well, I was one of those people a month or two back who said some unkind
things about Brahms' music.  And while I still don't consider his symphonies
to be in the same class as Beethoven's or Mahler's,  I just yesterday picked
up his German Requiem, and I am VERY, VERY, impressed.  Beautiful piece -
perhaps the prettiest of all the Requia I have heard...I really like the
2nd chorus the most, with the great tympani parts...

I bought the Levine - not because I like Levine, but rather I am a sucker
for Kathy Battle...  But Lavine does a good job, I think.  Any else heard
this one?

Anyway, I have a renewed appreciation for Brahms....sorry I ever doubted you!


Mike Hurben

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument (was Re: The shortest distance between two chords is...)
	<1jpbt0$1fm@agate.berkeley.edu> <1993Jan23.033540.11775@colorado.edu>
	<C1Er20.2DC@sci.kun.nl>
X-Md4-Signature: 3ed4fd695459e85d1c4ec9653192d687
Organization: Nat'l Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:55:56 GMT

In article <C1Er20.2DC@sci.kun.nl> pieterh@sci.kun.nl (Peter
Herweijer) writes:

   (Some, not all) Metal, Trash, Grindcore, Deathmetal.  These guys are
   young, but the best of them have a good technique and know more than
   your average pop musician abouth what they're doing.  They are not
   interested in conforming to normal pop-music practice or making the
   music easy on the ear.  You'll find -if you can make it out through
   the distortion- harsh dissonances, tonalities all over the place,
   irregular meters etc.

   Of course, it's what most people would refer to as an 'unholy racket'.
   It is also as far from classical music as one can get.

Is it?  Beethoven in his time or Stravinsky in his might have
disagreed...

Marc

--
Marc Andreessen
Software Development Group
National Center for Supercomputing Applications
marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.misc,rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.sf.movies
From: twr43417@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Trevor W. Ramsey)
Subject: Re: "Brainstorm" - a musical question
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:39:25 GMT

hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice) writes:

>In article <srgcraf.27.0@grace.cri.nz> srgcraf@grace.cri.nz (Ross A Fletcher) writes:
>>From: srgcraf@grace.cri.nz (Ross A Fletcher)
>>Subject: Re: "Brainstorm" - a musical question
>>Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:55:39 GMT
>>In article <1993Jan11.103700.15574@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>>>Subject: "Brainstorm" - a musical question
>>>From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
>>>Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:37:00 GMT
>>>I'm posting this to several newsgroups because the question touches many of
>>>them.
>>>
>>>In the SF movie "Brainstorm", Natalie Wood is shown playing what sounds like
>>>a classical piano piece (with a segue to strings), then Christopher
>>>Walken is shown playing the same piece.  I have the soundtrack (finally
>>>found it!), and yes, the piano piece *is* on there, but no mention is made
>>>of the source.  The credits list "music composed and conducted by James
>>>Horner", but it *really* sounds like a classical piece to me.  Now, my
>>>question - is the basis for the piece (called, appropriately enough,
>>>"Michael's Gift to Karen") some classical piece, or is it an original by
>>>Horner?  If it based on another piece of music, who is the composer or
>>>artist?  I'd like to hear the entire piece, if I can, and the beauty of this
>>>particular piece of music has haunted me for many years.
>>
>>You may think this a trivial question (to which I don't know the answer)but 
>>it leads me to ask a broader question - are there any decent recordings out 
>>there of James Horner's music?  I saw a fantasy film several years ago 
>>called "Krull" for which Horner wrote the score - the music is wonderful but 
>>try getting down on a copy of the soundtrack.  Do you Americans on the net 
>>know anything more about Horner - does he write other "serious" music or is 
>>it entirely film scores (which I guess is fairly serious).
>>
>>Ross
>One classical piece featured in "Brainstorm" at the home concert was 
>Schubert's "Trout" Quintet. 

James Horner, to my knowledge, only writes scores for movies.  He is of course
most famous for his scores for "Star Trek II" and "Star Trek III," as well as
"Aliens," "Cocoon" and "Cocoon: The Return."  I have never heard of him doing
any "serious" composing.  But in my opinion, even if he did, it wouldn't be
worth it.  If you listen to the scores I just mentioned, you find they are all
often the same music, with a few different twists added.  My assessment of 
Horner is that he is very talented, but starving for some original material.
That does it from critic's corner.



Trevor W. Ramsey				Univ. of Illinois at Urb.-Cha.
"This is ponderous"





Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Zurueck vom Ring!
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:03:52 GMT

So many people have mentioned THE GOLDEN RING - a BBC documentary on the
making/completion of the Ring Cycle as recorded by Solti, Nilsson, etc.
Many have wondered if this is available.

I note an ad in the NY Times (Sunday, Jan. 24) from J & R Music World,
which is selling the videocassette at $17.95, and $27.99 for the 
laserdisc ("prices in effect through Feb. 6").
Their phone number:  (212) 732-8600.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
From: kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Who does Tchaikovsky well?
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:33:11 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

There was a young Italian conductor in the 1950s who did a 
tremendous recording of Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 5, I believe. 
He died (in a plane crash?) around 1956.  Anyone remember his
name and know if the recording is available?

JK
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:41:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.C1Gu5o.LqC
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1993Jan26.114314.7147@bristol.ac.uk> plcdib@bristol.ac.uk (C D I Bertram) writes:

>One thing that does make me angry
>about the price of CDs is the fact that when Mahler symphonies
>(ed Rattle 2) spill over onto a second disk, the record companies
>charge double the price of a single disk. I'm willing to buy
>some of what they say about the cost of recording etc, but
>no way does the provision of an extra disk and a *very few* minutes
>more music justify doubling the cost.

Well, if you're going to take the yard-goods approach to buying CDs (1
minute = $X), then shouldn't it go for density as well as time?  In
other words, a record company would be justified in charging you 1,000
times as much for a recording of the Mahler 8th Symphony as for a solo
piano recording of the same duration.

My point is that it makes no sense to make this kind of simplistic
equation.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Who does Tchaikovsky well?
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:46:25 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay) writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.035008.25596@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>>
>>I am in particular interested in good performances of his 5th and 6th
>>Symphonies.  Yes, I have the Penguin guide, but (sigh) whenever I go
>>to the CD store, there are always tantalizing things (which are not in
>>the guide).
>For truly great interpretations of the above, try Mravinsky and the
>Leningrad Phil. on DG. For a more modern performance (not that there
>is anything wrong with the DG '60's sound), try Jansons and the 
>Oslo Phil.on Chandos.

	I second this -- both sets are way beyond any other.

--Andre

-- 
             Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: tonal value of chords and harmonic series [?]
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:26:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan27.075738.23548@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
|> according to rameau's model the chord
|> C-E-G-A, i.e. a major triad with an added 6th should be a VI chord,
|> lying on A whereas everbody knows it is a tonic chord lying on C

Is there a smiley missing here?

|> i'd be grateful if anyone could indicate to me somesuch attempt, and
|> incidentally, i'd like to hear of psychology experiments testing
|> the assumptions on which rameau's idea is based.

You might be interested in the work of David Huron -- the
most recent attempts I know of to make tonal-composition
rules make sense in the light of current science.  Check
_Music Perception_ (a journal) -- I see articles of his
in the fall and winter 1991 issues.

My basic difficulty is this -- suppose you prove the minor
triad is invalid?  Does all that minor-mode music go away?
And what's the point of an investigation with only one
acceptable outcome?

	Vance
From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Seeking comments on BBC Classical Music Magazine
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:25:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prentice.wkar.msu.edu

In article <1js6a6INNp2o@cae.cad.gatech.edu> dips@cad.gatech.edu (Deeptendu Majumder) writes:
>From: dips@cad.gatech.edu (Deeptendu Majumder)
>Subject: Seeking comments on BBC Classical Music Magazine
>Date: 23 Jan 93 19:29:10 GMT
>If this has been discussed then I apologize and would prefer
>e-mail replies.
>
>In my recent Audio magazine I saw this offer ffrom BBC Classical
>Music Service in Tampa, Florida. They are offering subscription
>to monthly issues of BBC music magazine and a companion CD, every
>month, for $5.00 + S&H per month. Apparently the CDs contain full
>recordings instead of samples and are done by BBC Symphony Orchestra
>I think. It is one of those cancel anytime with no obligation kind
>of deal.
>
>Anybody has any comment about the magazine and the CDs, and about
>the deal as such.
>
>many thanks
>d.
>-- 
>Deeptendu Majumder
>30963 Georgia Tech Station
>Atlanta, GA 30332.

I picked up a copy when in Scotland last October.  It is really a neat 
magazine, lots of good articles, reviews, etc.  The CD that came with it was 
a BBC recording of Bruckner's 9th conducted by Bernhard Klee.  The recording 
was made at the Liverpool Cathedral in 1991.  It was quite good and a unique 
addition to my library.  I have thought of subscribing myself, but just 
haven't gotten around to it.  At $5.00+S&H, it sounds a good deal.

  
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Prentice, FM Program Manager      Michigan State University
WKAR-FM, 283 Communication Arts Bldg  East Lansing, MI 48824-1212 USA
Internet: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu      Bitnet: hal@radio.wkar.bitnet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pdorman@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Peter Dorman)
Subject: Re: Sunday morning music selection
Organization: Hamilton College - Clinton, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:00:47 GMT

>Just like the title says, would anyone suggest me a few music
>selections for any given sunday morning?

If it's summer, try Lou Harrison for a change.  Close your eyes and
pretend you're somewhere around Big Sur.

Peter Dorman 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:21:16 GMT

jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless) writes:
: In article <1993Jan21.061425.25782@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
: >
: >Someone was asking about great discoveries of 1992.  Well poking
: >around in the CD collection in my public library and trying to expand
: >my world a bit, I grab a 2 CD set of Mahler's 3rd Symphony, conducted
: >by Bernstein and the NYPO.  Wow!  I have heard this before, but it
: >never had this impact -- maybe a tribute to Bernstein.  So I am off
: >
: This is my favorite 3rd, by far.
: >I have the mahler.txt by Mr. Barker as well as the Penguin Guide,
: >
: Use the former more than the latter. :)

Too kind. I presume you are referring to the DG Bernstein, not the
CBS. I have a sneaking feeling that the remake is not better, but am
prepared to be corrected. I still stick with Horenstein though.


: >Mahler Symphony #8 -- Atlanta Symphony Orch. Shaw -- on Telarc label.
: >	This one tempts me, but I haven't purchased it ... yet.
: >	Should I?
: >

Somebody said they'd seen good reviews of this. They obviously read a
different set of magazines to me, I haven't seen a single review of
this that said it was worth listening to.

: Try first the Solti/Chicago recording (DECCA, 1972?).  The sound is as
: good as some digital recordings, but that's the last thing you'll care
: about - Solti's reading is so powerful it'll leave you breathless.
: 
: >Mahler Symphony #5 -- Solti, Chicago Symphony -- London (Decca) 1991
: >	This one already got me -- It is well recorded but it is
: >	the only #5 I have ever heard, so I have nothing to compare
: >	it to.  Comments?  Have I missed something else really superb?
: 
: Yes - the analog Solti/Chicago recording, among others.  I don't want
: to sound anti-digital here, but IMHO these are the best two recordings
: of these two works.  The playing in the old Solti 5 is quite noticably
: better than in the live digital one.  And both are "late analog", so you
: aren't sacrificing much at all.  Also, you can get the 5th on "The Solti
: Edition" series, now (a budget line of classic Solti recordings on Decca).

The VPO/Bernstein is available on mid-price DG, and the classic
NPO/Barbirolli is on mid-price EMI. I'd bet on either of those before Solti.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Film versions of Opera
Keywords: Wagner's Ring
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:34:35 GMT
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR

>When President Reagan was leaving office, I remember hearing that
>his first job as a private citizen would be hosting (or introducing)
>a film version of Wagner's Ring.  That is all I ever heard about it.

Just think - he could stand in for Brunnhilde part of the time, and they
could save on magic fire.

						Jeff Winslow
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Subject: Re: Music killed by movies
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:30:03 GMT

What about that most-asked question - "Excalibur" and Wagner?  

Also - the beef commercial's butchering (sorry! :) ) of Aaron Copland...

Some toilet-cleaner commercial did Night on Bare Mountain, and I think 
Ritz Crackers used Sorcerer's Apprentice.  Beethoven 5 and 9 are used too
often to attempt to mention them all here. 

Oh, there's a new Disney commercial that rips off a theme of Mahler 3, 
mvt. 1 - but I guess that's a little too obscure to fall under the 
"ruined" umbrella...:)



-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Beethoven quartets
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 16:28:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.045329.3263@informix.com> rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia) writes:
>In article <1993Jan17.054440.26402@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan16.223533.3590@informix.com> rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia) writes:
>>>P.S.: The late Beethoven and the Shostakovitch quartets are must
>>>      haves IMO. I have not heard the Bartok ones, yet. Haydn's
>>>      and (some of) Mozart's qts that I have heard pale in comparison
>>>      to the first two sets.

>>I'd say the Bartoks are more important than the Shost., though the
>>late Shost. are amazing in their intensity.

>>Go back and listen to Mozart's last ten quartets (starting with
>>K.387; the first 13 are from when he was 17 or 18) and the Haydn
>>starting at Op. 17.  Mature Mozart is an accomplishment of a different
>>sort, but every bit as fine as Beethoven; Haydn, well, with Haydn you
>>can hear an utter genius as he invents the styles that Beethoven
>>will later transfigure.  And the later Haydn quartets -- say, from
>>Op. 50 onward -- are witty, profound, and sheerly beautiful.  Something
>>rarely heard elsewhere...

>>Finally, let's put in a word for Schubert's last few quartets.  Tokyo 
>>does these pretty well, too.

>	Thanks for the recommendation Roger. I will try to listen
>    to some more of Mozart's quartets. I have heard all but the
>    last three of Haydn's qts (op77;op102?) but I have not managed
>    to appreciate them yet. They sound a bit too orchestral.

Well, Op. 76 is *meant* to be a bit orchestral, or, as Charles Rosen
said, "public."  77 actually withdraws from that idea just a bit;
and 103 is a glorious pair of inner movements, a quartet he didn't have
the energy to finish.

Do you really find things like Op. 33 "orchestral"?  Or, for that
matter, things like 54/2?  Perhaps you need to hear one or two of 
them live and close-up.  No, really.  

>    I will try them again after some time.

Good idea.  They're bound to getcha sometime.

>	About the Shubert/Tokyo: are you referring to the VOX
>    recording? I have not heard this one but it is cheap and
>    I suppose I can find some $ left around the house after
>    the Tower storewide sale.

Well, I'm not good at discography in general, but I'm convinced that 
Tokyo has recorded at least some of the Schubert quartets for BMG/RCA Red Seal.
I know they're doing a complete early Schubert, but it's not coming out
very soon.  Anyway, Tokyo's Death and the Maiden is practically their
signature piece.

Roger