From: pdsmith.mitre.org (Pat Smith)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Taxes (was:Re: VOTE, BABY, VOTE!)
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:23:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <7935@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
> 
> In article <Bx96p8.AKL@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com>  
> dscharfe@dptspd.sat.datapoint.com (David Scharfe) writes:
> > 
> > As far as Social Security goes, it is merely a pyramid scheme which
> > allows the government to fraudulently understate the size of the
> > budget deficit, and more importantly, the magnitude of the National
> > Debt.  This program should be phased out entirely; I think almost 
> > everyone would be better off were they allowed to invest their  
> money 
> > as they see fit, rather than having it stolen by the government to 
> > finance its debt.
> 
> I agree that Social Security has some problems. However, you
> should read some history of the pre-Roosevelt years and find
> out why we DO need a Social Security system of some sort.
> 
> I think what needs to be done with Social Security is to
> get it back to what it was originally intended to be: help
> for those in need. The fact that someone making $100,000 a year
> can also collect Social Security is appalling. 
> 
****
I would like to see Social Security be phased out and allow us to invest
the money tax free to save for our old age.  I would be more than happy to 
forfit what I have paid into this SS system in order not to have to pay
any more as the system will not be solvent when I am ready to collect.  If 
folks are given a choice to participate or not, I bet most will not.  If they
then get into trouble in their old age and haven't planned accordingly, then
that is THEIR problem not everyone elses.  i feel for these old folks who
get on TV and say they cannot live on their Social Security (their sole
sources of income)  but I have to ask myself  - did they not have any
financial planning for their golden years??  I started saving and investing
for my old age when I was 18 and do not intend to be a burden to anyone when
I am elderly. I also bet I will have a lot more disposable income than 
Social Security will ever provide me.  I am not well off but I am smart 
about what I spend, how I spend it and how I invest it.  

> > >You're on the right track, however I disagree about VAT.  The  
> corporate
> > >tax should be eliminated.  The income tax should be eliminated and
> > >replaced with a consumption based tax with a base level exclusion.
> 
> So how do you take into account the fact that those making 
> $500,000 a year can afford to pay a higher percentage of
> their income than those making $15,000 a year?
> 
> >   1) The Federal budget deficit; competes with industry for funds.
> > 
> >   2) The personal income tax, which provides a disincentive to use
> >      existing capital for investments.
> 
> How?  Yes, you have to pay tax on what you earn through an 
> investment, but saying that the tax discourages investment is
> like saying it discourages working. After all, you have to
> pay tax on your salary.  I do think those states which tax
> capital gains at HIGHER than the income tax rate do discourage
> investment, since people then find something else to do with
> their money.
> 
> > 
> >   3) A tax deduction for interest on consumer debt.  Thankfully,
> >      this idiotic incentive to go into debt and profligately
> >      spend rather than invest was finally eliminated by the
> >      Feds some years ago.  Who was the _idiot_ who suggested this
> >      anyway?  Was this part of "voodoo economics"?
> > 
> > The biggest reason I hate income tax is that when you invest,
> > you are taxed again on your money.  You _already_paid_your_taxes_
> > when you made the money in the first place; I cannot find any
> > reasonable justification for paying twice.  Please enlighten me.
> 
> How do you figure this?  If I invest $1000, say, I don't pay 
> tax twice on that $1000. I only pay on the profit I make from
> it. So if I buy $1000 worth of stock and sell it for $1100, I pay
> tax on the $100, not on the $1000 (since, as you say, I paid tax
> on that when I earned it in the first place).
> 
> 
> --
> Jim Mann            
> Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
> 
>