HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: 14 August....
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 10:41:32 GMT

amuh2@bu-pub.bu.edu (muhammad ahmed) writes:

>Keywords: Pakistan Zindabad

>g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh) writes:

>>Iqbal also said:

>>Sare Janha Se Achhchha Hindostan Hamara.
>>Hum  Bulbulain haiN iske yeh GulsitaN hamara.
>>(Tarana-e-Hindi)

>>>             Yeh jeena bhi koyee jeena hay lalloo.

>>>    Mera joota hay Japani, Yeh patloon Inglistani
>>>    Sir pay laal topi Russi, dil hay phir bhi hindustani.

>>The above two lines indicates how much you (Pakistanis)
>>are affected by Indians and their point of view.


>WRONG, it was to convey the point in their (Indians) own medium 
>to help them understand better.

Wrong.
Pakistani public is very much affected by Indian Songs.

>>>            ToR day butt khana-e-azar kay sub laat-o-manat
>>>            Muntizar hay teree zarb-e-la illah ka somnat.

>>Dr. Iqbal also said:

>>Her Subha Ko Uth Kar Ganye Mantar Voh Mithe Mithe
>>Sare PujariyonN Ko MaiN Prit ki Pila De.

>>Shakti Bhi Shanti bi Bhkton ke Git Main hai
>>Dharti ke BasiyoN ki Mukti Bhi Prit Main Hai

>>(Naya Shival)

>>(If above four lines are not in order then please correct it.)

>>>ISLAM ZINDABAD
>>>PAKISTAN PAINDABAD.

>>Allama Iqbal Said:

>>Mazhab Nahi Sikhata Apas main Baair rakhan
>>Hindi hain ham vatan hai Hindostan Hamara.


>Iqbal's poetry reflects two distinct periods of his life i.e.,
>first when he, like other Muslim leaders of his time, believed in
>the possibility of mutual co-existence with hindus and second when
>he reached the conclusion that it's impossible to co-exist with
>hindus dignifiably. The verses you have quoted are from the former
>period.

>      Kabhi aay nawjawaN Muslim Taddabbur bhi kiya tu naiN
>     
>>Alas! Dr. Iqbal Lahori also said:
>                 ^^^^^^

>FYI, Dr. Iqbal was born in Sialkot and if you mean to demean him 
>by calling him "Lahori", I can only pray again in words of Iqbal

>                 Ya rab dil-e-Muslim ko wo zinda tammana day
>                 Jo rooh ko tarpa day, jo qalb ko garma day 

>>TaigoN ke Sayen maiN pal kar JanvaN huai
>>Khanjar halal ka Quami Nishan Hamara.

>     Mujhay hay hukm-e-azzaN
>     la-ila-ha-il-allah

>ISLAM ZINDABAD
>PAKISTAN PAINDABAD

>-Muhammad Ahmed 

It is not demean to Sir Iqbal by calling him Lahori.
 Because Most of his life he passed in Lahor.





I know Iqbal's change of view in later life.

The following lines are suspicious
(in the  sense that he was secular or pro-islam from the begining)
  which he said in first decade of
the century.

Iqbal! Koi mehram apna nahi janhaN main
Malum kya kisiko dard-e-nihaN hamara.
(Tarana-e-Hindi)


I respect Iqbal.
But only agree with his former poems.


Bye
Adil
From: brao@pollux.usc.edu (Bapa Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The End of an Era; The Seventh Nizam of Hyderabad
Date: 15 Sep 1992 19:11:03 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

I followed the thread on the 1948 Police Action in Hyderabad (Deccan)
with some interest. I would like to offer my perspective and correct
what I feel are wrong impressions created by some of the articles. 

I grew up in Hyderabad (Deccan, India) and am very skeptical of the 
"200,000 Muslims killed during Police Action" story that has appeared in soc.
culture.pakistan. A massacre of such a large magnitude simply cannot
be confined to an obscure report for so many years in a country like
India, and in a city like Hyderabad. It would have passed into hoary
popular legend much like the massacres of suspected communists in 
Telangana (most of Hyderabad state of that period) under the orders
of Sardar Patel around the same time. 

Mention of such a massacre would have come up often in the course of the
often troubled Hindu-Muslim relations in Hyderabad. Hyderabad has
a substantial and vocal minority of Muslims and I find it hard to believe 
that no one, not even the now venerable Sultan Salauddin Owaisi
would bring it up. 

Also, it is interesting that the article posted contains no reference
to the alleged massacre; the reference to the massacre is made
outside the article, which incidentally is quite consistent with
commonly known accounts of the events of 1948. Someone else subsequently
came up with a "reference" to one Pandit Sunderlal and his associates
investigating the events at the "personal" behest of Nehru. That there
can be no public knowledge of such a momentous report is simply
inconceivable in Indian society, despite some (presumably Pakistani)
individual's insinuation that Indians would naturally be unaware
of this since they were brainwashed by their government. I tell you
in all seriousness that the Indian government is simply incapable of
ruthless efficiency of this order.

Another impression created in this thread that I would like to
correct is that Kasim Rizvi and his Razaakars of the Majlis
Ittehad-ul-Muslimeen were some sort of heroic saints during
1948. In fact, the Razaakars conducted notorious pogroms to 
terrorise Hindus into fleeing Hyderabad. Many did, a lot
survived by masquerading as Muslims. If Gen. Chaudhary's troops
hadn't intervened in time, perhaps Rizvi's Razaakar's might
have attained to the heights of accomplishment of their
namesakes in East Pakistan during 1971. Thankfully, we will
never know.

Interestingly, the Majlis is the ruling party in the 
Municipal Corporation of Hyderabad today, and the 
Mayor is a Hindu. Sometimes, the more things stay the
same, the more things change.

K.V. Bapa Rao
From: alam@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ALAM AFSHAN)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: the terminator part n : )
Date: 6 Sep 92 02:02:07 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

kmubarak@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kamal Mubarak MD) writes:

>Some questions.  Do we really maintain our sexual identity after death?
>Do  we really remain male and female in heaven or hell? If so, how does 
>one tell the gender of a soul? One can not exactly examine  the  nether
its not just the soul.there will b bodies in the hereafter which will
either b suffering in hell(there r lotsa descriptions eg skins burning
and being xchgd for new skins which r burnt also) or finding delight in hvn.

>regions of a soul, or can one? Is what is mentioned in the Qura'n to be
>taken literally, or is  it  meant  to  be  a  sexual  allegory  to  the
>spiritual pleasures of the hereafter?
God knows! the only thing clr to me is that there is q eno' motivn to try
to get into hvn and avoid hell.

>Kamal.
Afshan. i dont have a soul a soul has me
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Saturday, 5 Sep 1992 01:34:50 EDT
From: <343DALN@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: A thought

HI !!

     I AM A HINDU, FROM SOUTH INDIA, I NEVER UNDRSTOOD POLITICS IN MY LIFE,

I HAVE SMALL QUESTION TO ALL THE LEARNED PEOPLE, WHY THE HELL INDIA WANTS TO

SUPRESS THE LARGE CHUNK OF PEOPLE (E.G. PUNJAB, KASHMIR, ASSAM) ?

WHY NOT GIVE THEM INDEPENDENCE ? IF WE INDIANS FOUGHT AGAINST THE BRITISH ON

THE SLOGAN THAT " FREEDOM IS MY BIRTH RIGHT " AND ONCE WE GOT THE INDEPENDENCE

WE FORGOT ABOUT THE BIRTH RIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE.

I STRONGLY FEEL THAT SINCE WE ARE ENTERING INTO THE 21st CENTURY THERE SHOULD

BE FREEDOM EVERY WHERE IN THE WORLD, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE THEIR OWN

GOVERNMENTS AND EVERYBODY CAN LIVE HAPPILY AND ALSO HAVE CHANCE TO BECOME

AFFLUENT.

                                          - REDDY

                         (standard disclaimer)
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: billa-unwaan (titleless)
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:10:04 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology



	sarfarooshi kay andaaz badlay gaa-aye, 
		daawat-e-qatl par, maqtal-e-shehr meiN
	daal kar koee gardan meiN touq aaa gaya
		laadh kar koee kandhay pay daar aaa gaya	


	(the protocol of valour have changed,
		on the invitation of death, in the slaughter-house of the city
	 some march in with a noose around their neck,
		while others proudly bear the burden of their own cross)


	ADIL [......dast-e-qatil kay shaayaaN raha koun hai......] NAJAM
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: REPOST: Mohsin-ul-Mulk, Gallery of Freedom Fighters
Date: 9 Sep 1992 21:31:45 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu


		Gallery of Freedom Fighters
		---------------------------
		Mohsin-ul-Mulk Mehdi Ali Khan
		=============================

	Mohsin-ul-Mulk Mehdi Ali Khan was born at Atawah on 9th Dec. 1837.
Like Sir Syed he was educated in the prevalent eastern style of education.
After  completing his education, he began to serve the British Govt. in India.
He sat in Civil Service examination for the post of Deputy Collector. After
he secured the first position in the examination he was appointed a 
Revenue Instpector in 1871 and served in the Hyderabad State for
twenty years. For sometime he was the Financial Secretary in the
Hyderabad State Government of the Nizam.
	Many people think that the real architect of the success of 
Sir Syed Ahmad Khan was Mohsin-ul-Mulk. However, it will not be incorrect to say
that he worked as much with complete dedication and utter sincerety for
the establishment of the Muslim University as Sir Syed did. 
In 1888 Mehdi Ali Khan went to England. Some five years later he resigned his
post to settle permanently in Aligarh to look after and nurture the plant put in
soil by  Sir Syed, namely the Muslim Anglo Oriental College that later became a 
full-fledged Muslim University.
	Mohsin-ul-mulk was a man of great integrity. Inspite of his 
exposure to the West he never for a moment disowned his culture or his
roots.
	A forceful writer and a great speaker, he led a campaign in 1900 
against Sir Anthony MacDonald's policy of replacing Urdu with Hindi.
	It was on his suggestion that a deputation was organized and sent
to Simla in 1906.

P.S. From 50 years, Golden Jubilee, Pakistan Resolution, 1940-90, 
     by Pakistan International Airline


Mansoor Ahmed Khan
Cleveland.
August 1992.
From: tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: "Immaculate Conception" : The Movie
Keywords: pakistan karachi films india
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:30:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

Last night, I went to the London movie premier of "Immaculate Conception".
Quite an interesting film, I must say. Set in Karachi, during the late 80's,
the story is focussed on a white couples' quest to have a baby. For this
purpose they visit a Hijra Shrine, and become embroiled in the other
side of pakistani culture. The story is interwined with actual newsreel
of events that happened in Pakistan, and the islamic world in general.
Memories of the publication of The Satanic Verses, Khomeni's fatwa, the
assassination of General Zia-ul-Haq, the pakistani elections that followed,
the election of Benazir Bhutto - were all brought back sharply into focus.
I realized that these events, which are almost forgotten, only happened
recently and were indeed of major importance. I also realized that even
though these events appeared remote in terms of distance, they actually
happened very close at hand.

The film also evoked a good feel for the karachi/pakistani scene, by showing
how the couple interacted with their pakistani friends and the cultural
scene in general. Zia Mohyeddin gave a multi-dimensional performance.

What added to the surreal atmosphere of the film was the fact that I was
sitting amongst members of the cast. It was a case of "Who's Who" of the
British/Pakistani Movie-Set.

Although a bit weird, I recommend that you go see this film.

tariq
--

Tariq Hamid	                 Internet:  tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
 Computer Science Department     JANET:     tariqh@uk.ac.qmw.dcs
  Queen Mary & Westfield College  
   Mile End Road                   Telephone:  +44 71-975 5245
    LONDON, E1 4NS, UK             Fax:        +44 81-980 6533
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mughal@juliet.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Subject: Sufi Books
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:18:00 GMT

Posting on behalf of Silat Master, Khalid Khan Sahib, on his personal request...

Regards,
=M
______________________________________________________________________________

    There is an excellent outlet for books on Islam, and
it is right here in the USA!

          SUFI BOOKS,
          227 West Broadway
          New York City, NY-10013.

          Phone: 212-334-5212.

    There publishing house is the Pir Press, which publishes
English-language translations of many respect books on Islam
by scholars and saints. 

    This week I am ordering "Ahiya Uloom ud-Din", a four volume
set of essays discussing various issues in human life by
Imam Ghazali. The cost is $35 plus postage & NY tax.

    Then, they have books on the lives of many saints,
such as Hazrat Abdul Qadir Jilani [raa], and others.

    They have a list of books available, which they can
mail to you. They have a newsletter also, which has
many good articles every time it comes out.

    Sufi Books play host to Shaikhs of many sufi orders
as they visit United States. Recommended to check out.

                      was salam, Silat Man

------------------------------------------------------
From: fkhurshi@crc.ac.uk (Ms F. Khurshid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: MORE Criket Gossip.....
Summary: facts
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:39:28 GMT
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre

In article <BtwAAI.A98@brunel.ac.uk>, cs91hhs@brunel.ac.uk (Humaira Shaikh) writes:
> 
(deleted)
> Did you hear about Pakistan Team sueing two newspapers here, for accusing our
> bowlers of ball-tampering?
> Well, It started like this:
> On friday ICC announced that the matter of ball-tampering is settled.
> They did not say anything about our bowlers being innocent or cheaters.
> Also they said that the decision to change the ball in the middle of the match,
> was right.

> Because the day ICC made their decision (or indecision),  BBC showed a
> recording of the match in which Aqib Javed was bowling (dont know which match
> precisely). He rubbed the ball on his trousers and then VER CLEARLY he pushed
> his thumb-nail on the side of the ball, reaaly hard, which undoubtedly, must
> Pretty damning evidence that is, I have to say

Yes, but they did not say which match it was..or whether it was from the test
series at all..........i'm sure if they dug hard enoughthey would find English
bowlers 'doctoring' the ball ..
The point is that the ball went in at tea-time with the umpires...they had
no reason for complaint...........

> ANYONE, not even a pakistani, would be sure about certain tampering, legal or
> illegal ( some say it has not been established yet, whether chipping a ball for
> better swing is illegal)of the ball, by atleast Aqib.
> 
> Two papers clearly accused Pakistan, after the evidence of the tape.
> Daily Mirror had seven pages (front and back) showing Aqib's photos, with the
> headlines:
> FINGERED! We nail the Pakistani Cricket Cheat.
> 
> And:Pakistani Cheaters Head Back (they went back on Sunday).
> As I said..........It all looks pretty bad to anyone watching.
> Daily Mirror accused ICC of being "cowards" for not giving a straight answer.
> hough why would that be, is beyond my understanding.

It's obvious...the ICC know the truth, but the bigot's there are bad loser's
and want to prolong the bad feeling for the Pakistani team. This has led
to the articles by English players condemning the Pakistani bowlers, basically
the English are can't handle losing to a black country (cheating claim's only
come up against the West Indies/ Indians/Pakistani's) .


>(deleted)
>
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: kmubarak@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kamal Mubarak MD)
Subject: Re: Heavenly speculations (was Re: the terminator part n : ))
Organization: The Ohio State University
 (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:31:51 GMT

>The word hoor in Arabic from the Quran does not imply women in Heaven as a
>reward for living the pious life. I have been reading this string of articles
>and am sick of the sexism that is being implied. The word hoor in Arabic and
>as translated in the Quran means a heavenly partner. It implied in Arabic a
>person with large eyes, since that was a signg of beauty. The Quran says the
>people of heaven will get hoors. That is both men and women who have lived
>according to the way expected for them will get heavenly companions. The Quran
>does not specify male or female, and hoor is a word that implies either male o
r
>female. There are many hadis which state what the nature of the hoor will
>be, but we have to keep in mind that these are hadis and not quran. furthermor
e
>i am getting sick and tired of seeing islam being denigrated like this. you
>people are worse than the folks of soc.culture.iranian. please show a little
>bit of respect to islam and talk in a respectful manner.
>
>zafar
>

Thank you for bringing some sanity to the discussion.  The Qura'n does not
have a wild imagination, but many of its followers certainly do, as can be 
seen from the net.

Kamal.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahmedss@ntmtv.UUCP (Syed Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Sufi Books
Reply-To: ahmedss@ntmtv.UUCP (Syed Ahmed)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:19:57 GMT

One very good reading related to Sufism is the book titled:

	The Hundred Letters  by Sharfuddin Yahya Maneri


Look it up in school libraries. My brother saw it in the San Jose State Univ.


Regards.

Syed Sayeed Ahmed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: "Immaculate Conception" : The Movie
Keywords: pakistan karachi films india
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 21:15:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.163033.6572@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid) writes:
>Last night, I went to the London movie premier of "Immaculate Conception".
>Quite an interesting film, I must say. Set in Karachi, during the late 80's,
>the story is focussed on a white couples' quest to have a baby. For this
>purpose they visit a Hijra Shrine, and become embroiled in the other
>side of pakistani culture. The story is interwined with actual newsreel
>of events that happened in Pakistan, and the islamic world in general.
>Memories of the publication of The Satanic Verses, Khomeni's fatwa, the
>assassination of General Zia-ul-Haq, the pakistani elections that followed,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Has that been confirmed?

............ (stuff deleted)

>What added to the surreal atmosphere of the film was the fact that I was
>sitting amongst members of the cast. It was a case of "Who's Who" of the
>British/Pakistani Movie-Set.
>
>Although a bit weird, I recommend that you go see this film.
>
>tariq
>--
>
>Tariq Hamid	                 Internet:  tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
> Computer Science Department     JANET:     tariqh@uk.ac.qmw.dcs
>  Queen Mary & Westfield College  
>   Mile End Road                   Telephone:  +44 71-975 5245
>    LONDON, E1 4NS, UK             Fax:        +44 81-980 6533

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882
From: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: A poem on Farrukh Zafar's departure
Date: 6 Sep 92 06:13:55 GMT
Reply-To: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

Dear scpians.

I wrote and read the following poem in the farewell party for Farrukh
Zafar.  There were actually two farewell parties one was hosted by
Rukhsana Merchant and other by Ashar Nisar.  These parties were held
on August 28 and 29 in Bay area.  Many famous scpians were there
For example, Rukhsana Merchant, Jahangir Hashmi, Rafay Khan, Sharaz
Khan, Tanwir Syed Mohammad, Farrukh Shah Khan, Ashar Nisar, and yours  
truly Zia Zafir.

Now enjoy the poem

	alwida' aey dost Farrukh alwida'
	teray jaanay ki khabar aah kiya hua

	tu jo tapti dhoop maiN ek chhaaoN tha
	baadloN ka kaarwaaN thehra hua

	is nagar maiN ab bachaa kuchh bhi naheeN
	bin teray gulshan bhi ab sehra hua

	dost afsurdah haiN net khaamosh hai
	gham ka chehra bhi hai ab utra hua

	net ke jis pe hukmaraaN *salman* tha
	aur *khalid khan* tha chhaaya hua

	jis pe tooti bolta tha *saad* ka
	harf-e-*minai* say garmaaya hua

	jis pe *rukhsana* kay thay kuchh chutkulay
	mustanad tha un ka farmaaya hua

	kuchh yahaan *mughloN* ki bhi jhankaar thi
	juhd-e-*rafay* say jo phir arfa' hua

	tu nay aa kar kar diya ek inqilaab
	har jaga tera hi phir charchaa hua

	teray jumlay, teri baataiN teray post
	teri khushboo say hai net mehkaa hua

	net par tu chhaa gaya phir misl-e-abr
	jo bhi aaya samanay goonga hua

	har muqaabil ko hooi tujh say shikast
	ghaaliboN par bhi tera ghalba hua

	kuchh haseenan-e-chaman ka bhi kaho
	haal un ka baad teray kiya hua

	husn-e-amreeka ko rota chhoR kar
	husn-e-pakistan ko chaltaa hua

	jab bhi un ko yaad teri aaey gi
	keh uThaiN gi khaab tha dhoka hua

	teri in pursoz baatoN say zia
	zakhm mera aur bhi gehra hua

Shukriya,

Zia Zafir

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Subject: Re: the terminator part n : )
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:20:23 GMT

Naseer Khan writes:

|> Oh, how easily you condemn yourself to an ETERNITY of conditions that you
|> could not now withstand for even a minute.  You know, I contemplated
|> fornication (oh my, I said a bad word) once 
				^^^^^^^^

	*Words* are never "good" or "bad"......they are just words........
	......they are but "things" that *Actions* hide behind............
	......but, wait, what are actions except the manifestations of
	*intentions*........and who is there who knows what intentions we
	harbour??????........Actions, indeed are to be judged by intentions
	.....but what are intentions to be judged by??????

	......The point, dear friends, is that there is no point...neither
	to my ramblings, nor maybe to life as we live it.......and nor, for
	that matter, to the "Bad Ward" that my friend Naseer Khan so 
	hesitantly uses........

|> 
|>       |      |                        Signed:  Naseer Khan
|>       | (~)(o)                                 ___________
|>      C      _)
|>       | ,___|                                  khan@us17501.mdc.com



	ADIL [aawara gard-e-shehrr ko pathhar na maarna
	      aadaab-aashna  na  saahi,  aadmi tou  hai] NAJAM