HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:26:09 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Sep03.201022.696019@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <Bu0DD0.CzF@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

			.....................

>BTW, someone may have asked you about the Flood, but I don't recall
>your response. At the risk of forcing you to repeat yourself:

>I also find it difficult to accept the notion that the Flood did not
>change the geography/topology at all.  After all, according to the
>Biblical account, the Flood wreaked havoc on the entire Planet Earth -
>and if you accept the Talmudic accounts, it was even worse. According
>to the Malbim (I believe), even the tilt of the Earth's axis was
>affected by the flood. So I don't think it unreasonable to claim that a
>few tiny rivers were also affected.

It would seem so, but the last two rivers seem to be easily identified.
The last one even was so well known in that part of the world that it was
not even described, just named.  And the previous one was just identified
by where it went from its source.

Furthermore, these are the two largest rivers in the Fertile Crescent.  And
their sources are fairly close together, in the mountains of what is now
southeastern Turkey.

From the lengthy description of the other rivers, it would be assumed that
they were major rivers, also.  But there are just no others of this type
in this area.  
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Silber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Popes? / their encyclicals
Date: 2 Sep 1992 22:57:10 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: orfeo
Keywords: Jewish pope

In article <1992Sep2.164120.18032@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>..<several others write ..>
>>>>  Gut Yontiff, Pontiff.
>
>>>Vus ist neies, Pius?
>
>>Pius in peyiss?
>
>And what about that Kippah you always see him wearing.....

 Listen, he has also pronounced a new ecumenical encyclical:
 '' pacem in tokas ''


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Thanks...
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Distribution: usa,ca
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:33:30 GMT

... to everyone who responded to my query about the heksher on
Ben & Jerry's ice cream.  As someone pointed out to me via email,
and as I discovered for myself in the supermarket earlier this
week, not all the flavors are available with kosher certification
yet.  (Luckily, coffee heath bar is!)

Shabbat shalom, everyone...

--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:12:45 GMT
	<j1=n4s.strnlght@netcom.com> <BtJpDE.F01@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX

Herman> conclusions one can get from the assumptions.  Reform Jews do not
Herman> accept the statement that God literally wrote even the written Torah

Why does the Reform Movement think of the Written Torah as being more
important than other ancient texts?  How does it decide which texts
(or parts thereof) are important and which are not?
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
From: sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Not a Charm?
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:04:52 GMT
Reply-To: sgutfreund@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA

In article <1992Sep3.163218.20755@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
|> >Just as the cause and the healing from the snake wounds are ultimately
|> >not physical categorical necessities, but ultimately brought about by
|> >the will of G-d, so too are the accidents of the world and the power
|> >of the mezzuzah to protect one from them. The mezzuzah is not an amulet
|> >endowed with magical properties. Nor do accidents and unfortunate
|> >occurances happen serendipidously (Contrary to anything that Kushner
|> >might have said in "Why do bad things happen to good people"). All is
|> >ultimately in the hands of G-d.
|>   One can make the same argument about everything. I, for one, am
|>   eating a tunafish sandwich at the moment in order to protect my
|>   house and myself from accidents.

Only if you are eating it L'shaim Shemayim :-)

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 08:19:01 GMT

green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:

>Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact that Polish Jews were
>killed *because* they were Jews?

I accept that this is the criterion the Nazis used in choosing
victims for their concentration camps.

>When you refer to Poles of Jewish extraction
>as just being Poles, that is tantamount to denying that Jews were 
>singled out.

No it is not. The fact that I underline that they were of jewish
extraction demonstrates that I agree that the Nazis singled out people
of jewish extraction from among Poles for extermination.

>Thus the whole question of Polish complicity never has
>to get asked. How convenient.

If you read the s.c.j and s.c.p newsgroups, you must surely notice
that the question of Polish complicity gets asked most often of all.


MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Egg Creams (was Re: Proof of the Decline and Fall)
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:11:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.154028.4953@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>Wonderful, just darned wonderful.
>
>I left scj a few weeks ago, in the midst of a discussion over the
[egg cream style and locus parameters deleted]
Just saw this in New York Newsday (I read many newspapers) today, 8/26. In

the food section is an article on egg creams and their history (I think
that the writer lurks on scj, and picked up this thread).  The basic 
report was that:

1. In 1890, in the Lower East Side, Louis (Pop) Auster made the first 
egg cream.  No milk. Never had a white head.
2. His grandson, Stanley Auster said that Pop's store was at Cannon and
Stanton Street. 
3.  Different recipes were suggested from assorted Jewish stereotypes 
(Freddie Roman, Eddie Schonfeld...), 
4. Dave Fox of Fox's u-bet says lots of people eat egg creams all the 
time in the weirdest locations.
5. Everyone agrees egg creams are nostalgia.
6. Many people think that Fox's u-bet syrup use is a "mongrelization of
the original".
7. Name comes from chocolate et creme, asked for by Yiddish actor Boris
Tomachevsky after his return from Paris.
8. New York Egg Cream Company sells egg cream paraphernalia.
9. People are nuts about this drink.


Just my effort to keep everyone informed.

-- 
Dan Shimoff           
Phone: (212) 602-6798  
Address: shdan@tudor.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)
Subject: Re: Goggle Moggle (was Re: Egg Creams)
Organization: New York University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:14:42 GMT

stevef@bony1.bony.com (Steve Faiwiszewski) writes:

>In article <92Aug21.032854.22038@acs.ucalgary.ca> 
 kmjoffe@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kenneth M. Joffe) writes:
>>... bub making something called 'goggle moggle'.  Not sure if
>>that is an official name or her own term.  

>>[...]

>Goggle Moggle has nothing to do with egg cream. 

>[...]

By the way, does anyone know the etymology of "goggle moggle"?  It always 
sounded to me like a corruption of "Gog U'Magog".

>	- Steve -
--

Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:41:26 GMT

eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:


>The Arabs have let the Israelis dictate who is to be on their
>negotiation team.  This is not just a practical matter of prohibiting
>the use of the talks by known terrorists (such as Arafat).  This seems
>a major concession by the Arabs.

Considering the fact that it took the Arabs over four decades to come
to the negotiating table, and that all the so-called representatives
for the Arabs in the territories are self-appointed, I'm not
impressed.


>The singular example of Egypt breaking both the diplomatic and the
>economic boycotts demonstrates that the two have in fact been
>correlated.  That is why one should not discount out of hand the
>possibility of more general Arab-Israeli trade after the successful
>conclusion of peace talks.
>--

I should hope not.  If there isn't more general trade between the
Arabs and Israel, then the talks cannot be considered successful.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: hebrew fonts
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:33:16 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Aug25.163950.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> Does anyone know the address/phone of Kabbala Software somewhere
> in N Jersey?  Or perhaps other place to get Hebrew soft fonts for
> Word Perfect 5.1?  Reply by email to TASCHR01@louisville.ulkyvx.edu
>                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Thanks
Oops.  That shoulda' been TASCHR01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein)
Subject: Source for Midrash in Electronic Form?
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:29:13 GMT

One of the projects I was involved in while I was working for Stanford
was their on-line text service.  One of the professors in the
Religious Studies department would like put the Midrash into
electronic form for searching and retrieval.  

Scanning the ten volumes they have into electronic form is a rather
monumental task.  Does anyone know of a source from whom they could
purchase a version already on tape?  (Of course, they wouldn't mind
one that was free :-) 

As a more general question, is there an institution or university
which is compiling an archive of traditional Jewish sources in
electronic form?

Thanks,

--- Dave

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Finkelstein               |"Nothing comes out of the faucet
University of British Columbia  | but strawberry jelly.  I guess 
davef@cs.ubc.ca                 | that's how rich millionaires live."
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Another Wedding
Date: 27 Aug 1992 17:01:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article <BtLpzG.127@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>>Seen on the programme at the wedding of Jonathan Rosner and Hindee Alpert
>>in Lawrence, NY last week:
>>
>>			The Bride's Available Sister
>>				Ariella Alpert
>>
>>Now that is what I call market-directed advertising!
>>

Before my wedding several years ago, I threatened my relatives with
death and destruction if one of them even hinted "So when are we going
to dance at YOUR wedding?" to my twin brother!


********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Mac David
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:45:58 GMT

<EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>I have tasted a Mac David's hamburger, and I must agree with you whole-heartedl
>y.  Soggy bun, microscopic meat, dry......
>There are Wendy's in Israel, but the meat is...well....blech....

   Sure, but have you tried to take a bus from Egypt on your way to Israel? 
Ask the driver to drop you at the SLAV Restaurant near Be'eroth Ha'Ta'ava !

Yaqov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:41:33 GMT

In <1992Aug27.184341.664153@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:

>However, I have a friend visiting from Israel, who claims that in Israel
>you can let your wife and kids go for a walk at 2 in the morning,
>and not have to worry.

I don't know about other parts of the world, but in Israel a married
woman doesn't have to ask for her husband's permission before leaving
the house, at any time of the day.  Imagine that!
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter signature virus.
 |warren@      But the farmer
/ nysernet.org is not *** at all.
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: substantiation of G-D
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:13:45 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

In article <MPlatt-270892115651@mplatt.unm.edu> MPlatt@medusa.unm.edu
(Mark W. Platt) writes:

> I have been asked to give the Yom Kippur Drasha. I have chosen to focus on
> the anthropromorphism or (Miamonades) Substantiation and to tie this in
> with the vision of books and inscrption in the book of life, does anyone
> know of some sarting references apart from the guide to the perplexed?

Go borrow, or better yet, buy yourself a copy of _Handbook of Jewish
Thought_ by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan.  If no copy is available nearby, Call
the publisher, Maznaim Publishing Corporation at 212-438-7680 or
853-0525.

Chapter two discusses the Jewish understanding of G-d's nature.

R


--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion of a Child
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:41:13 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)

In article <4152@bimacs.BITNET>, rothberg@bimacs (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
>>>Once completed, your son will be regarded as Jewish just as any other
>>>born Jew.

>>Surely the son should be told the above is false regarding C and R
>>conversions.

>Surely all of the above should be emailed AND NOT POSTED as this is a
>PRIVATE matter.

What the son actually does is of course his private matter.  Generalities
about conversions are fair game for public discussion.

>		  The lady posted for some information and although
>most of the most of the posts have been decent, some, INCLUDING this
>one have been downright insulting.

What's so insulting?  O does what O wants to do, and if the son doesn't
end up O, what's it to him?  I know quite a few C converts, or sons of
C converts, who hang out around O shuls, not counted for minyans, etc
but not minding either.  I also know C's with the exact opposite attitude.
Who can tell?  Meanwhile, he and his mother should choose for themselves,
knowing as _much_ as possible about conversion, including all the ugly
backbiting they might expose him too.

>Would it not be better to email directly and allow the lady concerned
>to make her own decisions.

Huh?  Who's preventing her from making her own decisions?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Subject: Re: Vatican, Israel and Hidden Children
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:24:44 GMT

In article <7P82PB3w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger) writes:
>
>
>> > You are right. Cardinal Lustiger, archbishop of Paris, was born from very
>> >religious jewish (polish?) parents. 
>> 
>> Actually, I'm pretty sure that his conversion happened before WWII. 
> 
> You are wrong, Cardinal Lustiger converted either during or after WWII.

Well, here is the story (reprinted without permission from the Boston 
Globe, February 3, 1981 [AP]):

JEWISH CONVERT NAMED AS BISHOP
BOSTON GLOBE (BG) - TUESDAY February 3, 1981

PARIS  - Pope John Paul II yesterday named as the 139th archbishop of Paris
a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism whose mother died at Auschwitz.

     Msgr.  Jean-Marie  *Lustiger* , 54, whose parents were Polish Jews who
came  to  Paris  early  in the century, succeeds Francois Cardinal Marty as
head of France's largest archdiocese.

...

    Msgr.  Lustiger  was  born  in  Paris in 1926 and went to school in the
capital. The family moved to Orleans, a Loire River valley town 69 miles to
the  south, in the years leading up to World War II. It was in Orleans that
Lustiger was converted to Catholicism in 1940 at age 14.

    His  parents  were  sent to the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz, where his
mother  died  in  1943.  A  spokesman  for  the archbishop's office said he
believed the father escaped and was living in Paris.

    The newspaper France Soir said Msgr. Lustiger's father was a rabbi, but
Msgr.  Lustiger  said  in  a  television  interview  that  his parents were
"agnostic."

...

    "Very  early  in  life I was attracted by the mystery of God." he said.
Msgr.  Lustiger  said  in  the  television interview that he read the Bible
secretly and "felt that in becoming a Christian, I found myself."

...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, his parents were not religious and he evidently converted on his
own in 1940, and not after being a "hidden child." 
-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:42:37 GMT

sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:

[...]
>Stan can surely speak for himself, but I would like to remind
>the Polish participants here, that long before Hitler invaded
>Poland, in the 30's the Polish government had banned Jews from working
>in many professions, was conducting boycotts of Jewish businesses,
>etc.  The boycott was effective enough among Catholic Poles to drive

The government organised nothing of the kind. The "shop Christian"
campaign was organised by political parties that-by accident, maybe-were
in opposition to the government of the time. The campaign (and many other
antisemitic motions) had considerable success. The government did nothing
for or against it. Check your sources.

>many Jews out of business (and perhaps fortunately out of Poland
>too).  This caused lots of suffering among the Jews.  If you get

In all fairness, this was the great depression. Many businesses closed
down and I have yet to see a statistic showing that the number of closures
was higher among Jewish shops than, say, Polish.

>Roman Vishniac's photo-essay about the pre-war years in Poland
>you will be struck by how many Jews in Warsaw or Lodz for instance
>had to become baggage porters or rag sellers, or how many Jewish

This is most interesting. What was their profession before they became
porters? And who was doing the porting before Jews "had to become
porters"? Reading your posting one might get the impression that before
the Polish government started discriminating against Jews, they were all
affluent.

[...]

>non tolerandus Judaius status.  Similar to Cracow where the
>decision was forced on the city when it expanded to include
>the Jewish town Kazimierce that was built to accomodate Jewish
>merchants to the medieval fairs and markets, since Cracow also was
>banned to Jews.  Jews lived in Kazimierce since at least the 13th

The place is called Kazimierz and was founded in the 14th century, to
be exact. Have you not heard about the Jewish "queen" of Poland (Esther)?
By the way, Kazimierz is a place to visit for the judaica enthusiast.

>century, but in Cracow only since about 1800.

On the other hand, Jews were never expelled from Poland, as they were from,
say, England (Hungary, ...).

Salutations,

W. Dobosiewicz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: weddings on Saturday???
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:16:09 GMT

In article <0095F9E8.397B5280@OCTAVO> klfirestein@OCTAVO writes:
>So... what do I know - and what do you know???
>
>I think that weddings are NOT supposed to take place on Shabbat?
>
>But  ---   why??

Since weddings are technically like a transaction (including
writing a contract) held in front of witnesses they cannot be 
held on Shabbos or Yom Tov.

>
>And... do Reform allow them and if so - how and why???
>
>AND... if not??? Can a Reform or other congregation allow their
>grounds... (not their sanctuary) to be used for a wedding...
>
>And... if so - can it be done where either of the parties to the wedding
>are Jewish - or perhaps where neither of the parties to the wedding are
>Jewish - or where both parties to the wedding are Jewish??
>

If one of the parties involved is not Jewish then it is not a
wedding according to Jewish law.  All it is is a party being held
at a "mock wedding" just like the "weddings" held in the movies
such as Fiddler on the Roof, Father of the Bride, or Sound of
Music.  Just as the actors are not really married in the movies,
the people at the party are not really married (according to Jewish
law, the secular laws of the state could consider them married).

>This is all notwithstanding the participation of a Rabbi..

THe participation of a rabbi is only to ensure that everything is
done properly and no mistakes are made that could invalidate the
wedding.  Since this is not a wedding, the participation or lack
thereof of a rabbi does not matter.

>
>This comes from noting that a wedding took place on the grounds of our
>Temple.... with one party Jewish.... without the Rabbi conducting the 
>ceremony - under a Chuppa or something like one... and in the middle
>of the afternoon on Shabbat... 
>
>So.... I wonder? 
>While obviously any and all CAN be done.... what are some folks thoughts
>and what kind of responses would people recommend - from my leaving and 
>finding another Temple... to - what??? (what if there was always something
>going on on Shabbat - all day... such as my always staying on the grounds 
>and/or in the building - studying or napping, etc...)
>
>Help!
>
>Ken Firestein
>Davis, CA

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish