HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Rodger_Madison@rand.ORG (Rodger Madison)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Propogating Ficus Benjamina
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:09:48 GMT
Organization: The RAND Corporation, Santa Monica, California

I have a Ficus Benjamina in my back yard which I planted there several
years ago.  It has thrived and this year for the first time has borne
figs.  If I plant these is there a reasonable chance they will sprout?
I'm sort of a slob gardener and would tend to put them in a planting
mixture and forget about them although I have a choice of several
micro-climes in my yard where I could place them while waiting for
something to happen.

     Rodger
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mediterranean climate (was: zones)
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:03:27 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep8.124750.765@calmasd.prime.com>, jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop) writes:
> While we are discussing climate zones, just what is a Mediterranean
> climate?  Can anyone define it in terms of Sunset climate zones?
> 
> The reason I ask is that someone recently referred to Seattle as
> having a Mediterranean climate.  ...
> Coastal San Diego gets around 10 inches of rain a year, the inland
> valleys slightly more.  Most, if not all, of the rain falls between 
> November and March (though for the past several years all of it has
> fallen between February and April). 

A "mediterranean climate" is probably better referred to as a "winter
rain sclerophyllous region": most of the precipitation is in the winter,
summers are droughty, and plants tend to have leathery leaves, prickles,
and other methods of hanging on to their water and discouraging predation.

Mediterranean climates are not necessarily warm: Anatolia is basically
sort of a Meditteranean steppe region-- temps can drop to -25oC.  Chile
also has a "mediterranean climate", as is a portion of southern Africa,
SW Australia etc.

I would not classify San Francisco as a true Med-type climate-- there
is (normally) no summer drought to speak of.

If you are a CA resident interested in such things, borrow a copy of
_The Natural Vegetation of California_, (UC Press, major number of
authors, ca. 1978?), which goes into all this in excruciatingly nit-picky
detail.  Good stuff, I'm just not an ecologist...

For a broader look at world climates in relationship to vegetation, I 
recommend Heinrich Walter's _Vegetation of the Earth_, Springer-Verlag,
1973.  If you learn to read the climate diagrams presented in the book,
and can get the occasional peek at H. Walter & H Leith's _Klimadiagramm-
Weltatlas_ (1967), you can make a pretty good guess as to whether or not
a plant from region B will survive in region A.  So you can toss out
your USDA maps, or Sunset Maps.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Mediterranean climate (was: zones)
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:47:50 GMT
Organization: -

While we are discussing climate zones, just what is a Mediterranean
climate?  Can anyone define it in terms of Sunset climate zones?

The reason I ask is that someone recently referred to Seattle as
having a Mediterranean climate.  The same has also been said of San
Francisco; and locally (San Diego) I often hear our climate described
as Mediterranean.  Now to me each of these places has a very different
climate.  San Diego and Seattle do not have the same weather. 
However, I would say they are closer in terms of weather than their
east coast counterparts, say Bangor and Miami...at least as far as hot
and cold extremes go, but I imagine they (east coast) are much closer
in annual rainfall terms.

Coastal San Diego gets around 10 inches of rain a year, the inland
valleys slightly more.  Most, if not all, of the rain falls between 
November and March (though for the past several years all of it has
fallen between February and April).  The climate is heavily influenced
by the ocean.  We are rarely above 85 or below 45.  (Summer 65 to 80,
winter 55 to 75.)  While this may sound like an advertisement by the
chamber of commerce, I'm curious how this fits into the general
description of a Mediterranean climate. 

Perhaps the problem is that the climate of the Mediterranean is quite
varied also?  When I think of the Mediterranean, I think of Spain,
southern France, Greece or Italy.  But I guess this should also
include Northern Africa (probably closer in latitude to San Diego) and
the coastal sections of the middle east.  From pictures I've seen
(I've never been to the real Mediterranean.) I would guess San Diego's
climate is close to say Spain's or maybe coastal parts or Lebanon and
Israel.  Do any parts of the Mediterranean have the night and morning
summer coastal fogs that so typifies California weather?

Well, since I've raised this discussion I better offer a description
of what I think a Mediterranean climate is.  My understanding is that
it is is characterized by cool damp winters, and dry mild summers 
with most of the precipitation falling in the winter months.  Also the
growing seasons are somewhat backwards from most places.  Typically,
the late summer and fall are times when most native plants are dormant
and the winter and spring, when water is more readily available, is
the growing season.  Also, below freezing temperatures are very rare.

This description would fit a large portion of coastal California, but
I don't think it would work too well with the Pacific Northwest.  My
assumption is that even though August and September can be dry there,
they are still very much part of the growing season.  Also their
winter lows are much lower than a typical Mediterranean climate.

So, are there any meteorologists out there that can give a more
accurate definition?  Or any other opinions (like I have to ask)?

Jim
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Basil and whitefly (was cheese in pesto)
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:16:22 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Jim Bishop quotes Klier:
>>>
>>>I grow basil, hate pesto, and give mine away (assuming the whitefly
>>>doesn't carry it off ahead of harvest).  I'd much sooner have a nice
>>>alfredo sauce without that stinky basil!  (And I grew up in an
>>>Italian neighborhood!)          --Kay
 
and continues:

> Also not all basils are the same.  I have one that has fuzzy leaves
> and fruity fragrance.  It also must contains something that is
> addictive.  I eat it on sandwiches, pizza, with tomatoes, with
> fruit...with almost anything.  Or maybe you have to be a first
> generation basil/pesto eater to appreciate it.

I like basil (just about any basil) in moderation.  But I don't want to
make a meal of it.  And I've gotten less fond of it as I get older,
maybe because it is inextricably linked in my mind to whitefly (:-P)

> You have white flies in Iowa?  I didn't think they could survive the
> winters there.  I don't have much of a white fly problem with basil,
> but that's probably because I eat it as fast as it grows.  (Also, I
> released the escarpia (SP?) wasps for several years.)  
               Encarsia.

Yup.  I use the basil as a white-fly monitor.  If it totally goes
away, I figure it's time to Do Something About The Whiteflies again.
We have trouble sustaining Encarsia populations because of the winter,
though.  And I'm too cheap to buy them often.  Greenhouses that have
switched to Encarsia whitefly control often have to keep a couple of
plants that are loaded with whitefly just to keep the Encarsia going--
the populations of predators crash just after populations of prey.

One of my Do Something About The Whitefly methods is to drag out a
*nice, succulent* basil, leave it out for about 36 hours, then 
drop the whole thing, plant, pot, whiteflies and all, into a bucket of 
soapy water.   Trap crop, it's called.  Satisfies some of my baser 
instincts (mwah hah hah, as someone said about drowning fleas ;-)  ).

And if you ever get tired of vine-ripened, cool season San Diego tomatoes
in the winter, I know an Iowan who starves for fresh tomatoes all winter
because she doesn't like the ethylene gassed cardboard things they
call tomatoes in the store.  (big grin and eyebrow wiggle)
              
                                     Kay
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond)
Subject: Re: Botanical gardens in and around SF
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:26:02 GMT



Surely a million people will tell you more specifically than I can, but
there's a great one in Berkeley (part of UCBerkeley phone 510 642 6000 I
think and ask for the number) and then at least one in San Francisco at
Golden Gate Park - and now that I think of it there may be as many as four
there. One Japanese one in Los Altos, I think it is . . .

The UCBerkeley one, rather than representing many different lands
represents, as I understand it, all of the astonishing range of ecosystems
in California alone. Or not . . . :^)
From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: why bother with corn?!!
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:27:01 CST
Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City
Followup-To: rec.gardens

klier@iscsvax.uni.edu (Kay Klier) writes:

                              [TEXT DELETED]

  > 
  > As to the arrangement with the neighbor for sweetcorn, he's a semi-
  > retired farmer, and all he plants is those 3 or 4 acres of corn.  Then
  > he hand cultivates, and practically begs people to take his corn when it
  > starts ripening.  Keeps him feeling like he's still farming, and it
  >  keeps
  > me from re-injuring my back (digging is still very difficult for me).  
  > 'Sides, the field is 100 ft from my back door, and I'm allowed to pick
  > it myself, and take as much as I want (I also freeze about 50 qts for 
  > him).  I think I'm getting an incredibly good deal.   And not growing
  >  corn
  > means I have more room for other goodies. 8-)

                           [MORE TEXT DELETED]

I hope you like to eat white sweet corn. If you haven't tried any, you
can't find any better sweet corn than either COUNTRY GENTLEMAN or
STOWELL'S EVERGREEN. I know, these two varieties have been around for a
while, but they can't be beat for good corn taste (IMHO)!


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson
bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org                             (Preferred)
bob.batson@ivgate.omahug.org                            (Alternate)

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jlawlor@ptdi12.intel.com (Jay Lawlor ~)
Subject: Re: cheese in frozen pesto?
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Reply-To: jlawlor@ptdcs2.intel.com
Organization: Intel Portland Technology Development
	<1992Sep9.204512.772@calmasd.prime.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:20:40 GMT


> One final question, is there anybody that reads this news group that
> doesn't grow basil and make pesto?

Yes, now that you mention it.  In fact I was wondering what pesto is.
But then I've only been reading this group for a couple months now.
--
Jay Lawlor                                         jlawlor@ptdcs2.intel.com
Mailstop: AL4-57      Phone: (503) 642-8050        FAX:   (503) 649-3996
==============================================================================
I came, I saw, I had no idea what was going on, so I left.
                                          (stolen from the net)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer)
Subject: Re: plant root hormones?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:35:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep16.002639.20024@morrow.stanford.edu>,
HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer) misspells:
>                           and (Garden Relevance!) the oleander
>korous, a log that looks like a lithe nude male torso and thighs,
 kouros [Which still doesn't make the spell checker happy . . .]
>which I discovered after chopping down an oleander to make room for
>a rose bush (and which I varnished and attached to a wooden base).

---
Stewart Kramer
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: naturalism
Summary: newsgroup proposal/mission statement needed
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:36:38 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <23237@sybase.sybase.com> ellie@slumber.sybase.com (Ellen Lewis) writes:
> [text deleted]

I have a net.technowizard.friend who _might_ be willing to get
alt.natur(e/ism/ist) going for those interested. I will need to send
him a newsgroup proposal/mission statement to place in alt.config.
Is anyone willing to write this and post it here or in e-mail?

lawrence.london@bbs.oit.unc.edu
larry@wolves.durham.nc.us
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder)
Subject: Re: Mediterranean climate (was: zones)
Organization: Physics Department, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:10:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.162821.6612@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep8.190327.6577@iscsvax.uni.edu> 
>> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>>I would not classify San Francisco as a true Med-type climate-- there
>>>is (normally) no summer drought to speak of.
>> 
>> What do you mean exactly? Are you talking about fog drip? But I agree with
>> you, SF is more of a seasonal-rainfall, cool, subTropical climate where
>> daily temperature range usually exceeds seasonal temperature range. Let's
>> see, average summer 65-55, average winter 55-45. I guess daily range is
>> equal to seasonal in this case. BTW: I think SF's average winter low is
>> about 35 which would make it USDA zone 10, but good luck trying to grow
>> mangos there. (Insufficient heat units)
>
>When I lived in Davis, the daily weather report from SF was quite
>predictable: The low was 55, the high was 65 and there was 0.1" 
>precipitation-- that was summer.  In the winter, the low was 50, the
>high was 60 and there was 0.15" precip.   Got a bit boring to those
>of us used to _real_ weather.   ;-)
>


"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"  -- Mark Twain
(I have probably butchered the wording, but then Mark Twain was not his
real name either)


John
snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu
From: HF.SLK@forsythe.stanford.edu (Stewart Kramer)
Subject: Re: plant root hormones?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:26:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.174653.6790@iscsvax.uni.edu>,
klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>My absolutely top favorite Material Safety Data Sheet was for Sucrose.
>Yep, table sugar.  It wound up with the admonition that if you spilled
>this horrible chemical on yourself you should wash the area in running
>water for 15 minutes and obtain medical assistance.

Ultrapure Helium Gas is a simple asphyxiant ("USE WITH ADEQUATE
VENTILATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"), but the MSDS tells you to wash with
soap and water after use.  (Wouldn't want that helium sticking to
you, or you might float away! :-)

My favorite though is the metal bar that came with the label,
"Caution!  Molybdenum:  No toxic effects known."  A photocopy of it
is in my collection of absurdities, along with the valentine-shaped
green St. Patrick's Day pin~ata, the package of "Coffee Whitener"
that isn't even non-dairy, and (Garden Relevance!) the oleander
korous, a log that looks like a lithe nude male torso and thighs,
which I discovered after chopping down an oleander to make room for
a rose bush (and which I varnished and attached to a wooden base).

---
Stewart Kramer
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: billmc@microsoft.com (Bill McJohn)
Subject: Re: Mediterranean climate (was: zones)
Date: 09 Sep 92 18:11:57 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Sep8.124750.765@calmasd.prime.com> jhb@calmasd.prime.com 
(Jim Bishop) writes:
>While we are discussing climate zones, just what is a Mediterranean
>climate?  
...
>My understanding is that it is is characterized by cool damp winters, 
>and dry mild summers with most of the precipitation falling in the winter 
>months.  

This is the description I would give, too, and it fits Seattle quite
well.  Our winters are colder than yours, but still pretty mild.  (Of 
course, mild is a relative term, and I grew up in Chicago...)  And 
while we get more rainfall than you--33 inches average yearly--it 
mostly falls in the winter.  Summers are typically quite dry, with 
little or no rainfall from the beginning of May to the end of August.  

(Speaking of which, we had a heavy rainfall last week, and it was 
great--I've got fall planting fever!)

Bill McJohn
billmc@microsoft

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: amorim@bcrka379.bnr.ca (Grace Amorim )
Subject: re: freezing tomatoes? 
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:36:21 GMT

I usually freeze tomatoes in this way:
- remove stems and wash
- dry each tomato with a cloth
- pack in a plastic bag
- put into freezer - they will freeze into hard marbles and you
  just go into the bag and grab as many as you need.

When I need to use them I usually partly defrost them and chop them up.
If I want more paste and less water from the tomatoes I let them totally
defrost and then sort of squeeze the water from the tomatoes. It 
seems to me you can easily remove the skin by dropping them still frozen 
in hot water and just peeling off the skins - I don't usually bother.

Note: frozen tomatoes will be less "chunky" than fresh ones and so
may not do for a dish where you want some firm tomato texture. On the
other hand for dishes where you want a more thick tomato sauce (or where
you would
use a tomato paste) frozen tomatoes give you a good start since they are
already more broken down even before you start cooking. I use them in
place of canned tomatoes.

Don't know how long they last in the freezer. I usually put in a year's
supply and have never had them go "off" even at the end of the year.
 
=======================================================================
Grace Amorim
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd            
Ottawa, Canada                         

<     Insert standard disclaimers here ..... >
From: dosbears@netcom.com (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: More (hot) pepper questions
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:45:46 GMT
Organization: DosBears at Netcom

In article <Bu2JG5.21y@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cwright@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (wright christine l) writes:
>Also, the first peppers we picked (jalepenos) had no
>flavor and, worse, no fire.  Is there any sure way of knowing when to pick?
>Should we let them turn red?

Definitely let them ripen, they'll get hotter. I'm having to pick
some of mine green just because the plant is getting loaded down.

BTW, some of my peppers are getting cracks running the length of the
pepper. Anybody know what causes this?

-- 
Disclaimer: This disclaimer is not required by Leader Kibo.  This article
does not necessarily represent the opinions of Leader Kibo.  Have a nice
day.
********* HAPPYNET: YOU CONTROL HOW IT CONTROLS YOU *********
From: chrisda@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wildflowers to Naturalism
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:41:41 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <BuFEH7.3xC@well.sf.ca.us> lp@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond) writes:
>
>I would like to move that Vince Summers be banned from rec.gardens. Is there
>a way to implement this?
>
Geez, this is really starting to get me down.  The last thing we should
care to do is monitor who reads rec.gardens or posts to it.

Look, I'll apologize for Vince to anyone he has unfortunately offended.
I think his point was simply that he wanted to start a newsgroup about
wildflowers, and that there should be room for one.  So do it.

I read enough newsgroups to know that there's a lot of hysteria, flames,
baiting, and arrogant posturing available to read.  What I have liked most
about rec.gardens is not only the very informative postings, but also the
friendly, cooperative, and *forgiving* spirit of the people doing the posting.
Heck, just last week I posted a long story about the evils of Morning Glorys,
only to be gently reminded that the perennial weed I wrote about is another
plant family than the ornamentals people were seeking information on.  Oops!
And nobody wanted to kick me out or tell me to stop posting nonsense.  (Or
if they wanted to, they didn't do it!)

For all I know, there may be Neo-Nazi's, or Drug Lords, or (fill in the 
bogey-man of your choice) in our group, and I'm happy to talk peonies and
phlox with them regardless.  It was Vince's mistake to inject sexuality
into this newsgroup.  I don't want to talk about sex here (unless it's
between pistols and stamens :)  but I'd also be sad to see *anyone*
excluded from rec.gardens--even Vince--because of their beliefs.


David Christensen

P.S.--"Lily Pond" is very good.  I was just about ready to start this post,
"Dear Lily," and then I got it.   Hmmm... wonder if "Claude Buster" has
been used?
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Subject: Re: Raccoons in the Corn!
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:45:21 CDT


In article <1992Sep8.144452.7665@ryn.mro4.dec.com> fease@dkas.enet.dec.com (Andrea Midtmoen Fease) writes:
>
>     Over the weekend a raccoon hit my corn.  At least I *believe* it was a 
>raccoon - many (about 30) ears had the green sheath ripped down, then two or 
>three rows of corn were eaten.  This corn was just about ready to be picked, 
>in fact I was going to pick it this weekend.  The raccoon (is that what it 
>was???) beat me to it.
>

     I have grown sweet corn in rental plots for many years.   The best
way to prevent raccoon damage is to keep it clean and  picked and do not
leave corn husks and debris around.  The raccoons will smell it and look
for more.  If any ears do get damaged, remove them and haul them FAR away.
Raccoons will walk right by a corn patch that does not smell unless
they have recent (less than two days) memories of getting something there.
    In wet weather though, the stalks will sometimes start to break down
and smell attractive.   The best thing to do then is remove plants
as soon as they have been picked (or hit) and plant several crops in succession
so that some  will ripen in dry weather.

   This might not be racoon damage.  Raccoons often take the whole ear.
Birds and small rodents have more trouble with the husks and will
sometimes take several days to strip an ear.   I do not have as much
experience with these pests and will leave it to someone else to suggest
how to control them.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Subject: Re: Public Gardens in Raleigh NC
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:40:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.191241.5721@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kls@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth L Shellberg) writes:
>I will be in the Raleigh NC area the week of 21 September.  While there I
>would like to check out public gardens, great nurseries, and any other worthy
>places to visit.  (I should say that my main interest is ornamental gardening
>as I no longer have enough sun for vegies.)  Therefore I am asking the net for
>suggestions:  What should be on my "must see" list?

The N.C.S.U. arboretum across from the Veterinary School near Blue Ridge Rd.
Apex Nurseries
Taylors Nursery
Fowlers Nursery
Four Seasons Nursery
Buchanan's Nursery

all great!
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80