HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 6anthony_m@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:59:18 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

> 	Of course, most intelligent psionicists don't let people KNOW
> what they are or what they can do, unless they are people that the Psi
> KNOWS he can trust... or can MAKE trustworthy. And anyone who finds
> out more than they should know... forgets. Or dies.
> 
> 


Well, I still say a helm works quite easily.  I think the guy mentioned he was
in dark sun also, so not only will putting a hot, black, helm on stop 
psionicists from escaping, it will also torture the slaves a bit, and make them 
all weaker, in case an escape is attempted.  You could also make some sort
of metal, to have psionic dampening abilities like meteorite ore or something, 
the possibilities are endless....  

The Fiend  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: peterbi@microsoft.com (Peter Biddle)
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:17:48 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa

How 'bout the exact opposite problem--my very bright
group of players rarely misses a trick, when their
char's (or at least some of them) are as dumb as
rocks.

Good roleplaying alert: A party mage bet the cavalier
that he couldn't touch his tongue to his armor.  The
player running the cavalier thought about it awhile (his
PC is in the rock category) and the PC did it.  It was 
well below freezing; the obvious happened.  I had the
player hold on to his tongue whenever he talked for the
rest of the night to slur his speech.  This is the exception;
any tips?

Peter
+++++
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rramser@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Rusty Ramser)
Subject: PC vs. Player INT
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:21:58 GMT


I was wondering whether anyone else has ever come across
the following type of situation in any of their gaming.
It's been years since I've played any ADnD -- I wasn't
even aware that there was an ADnD2 until reading in this
newsgroup, so I don't know if ADnD2 does a better job of
addressing this "problem" than the ADnD system that I
played under did.

When my group played, I was typically the DM (or GM, or
whatever people think that particular gaming role should
be called nowadays -- I'm sticking with DM.)  In my
adventures, I frequently incorporating many "thinking"
scenarios.  Sometimes there were short puzzles to
figure out to open a secret door or to find a treasure
room, and other times entire adventures revolved around
piecing together a large-scale puzzle to accomplish
the final objective.

There would typically be several PCs in my group who had
INT scores in the 15-18 range -- the problem arises from
the fact that ... (how do I say this nicely?) ... well,
let's say that these high-intelligence PCs were being run
by real people with maybe a real intelligence somewhere
in the 9-12 range.  See the problem yet?

For a PC with an 18 INT, these puzzles, mind games, and
other situations should have been figured out with just a
minor degree of applied thought; (I don't feel like any
of the situations I created were impossible to solve --
I wasn't a "its-me-against-the-PCs" kind of DM).  However,
since these PCs were being controlled by real people (who
certainly didn't have an INT in the 15-18 range), sometimes
they'd be utterly stumped.  If I wanted to keep an even
flow of play going, I'd just have to somehow supply more
hints than I originally intended so the thing could get
solved and the game wouldn't get bogged down on one little
issue.

Having an 18 STR PC controlled by a real-life 6 STR person
presents no real problem in role playing; (the same can be
said for DEX and CON).  But INT differences between the PCs
and real people always presented me with this type of problem.
WIS and CHR differences could also cause frustrating situa-
tions:  Having an 18 WIS Cleric do some bone-headed action
that just really goes against common sense wasn't that unusual,
and just because a player's PC has an 18 CHR doesn't mean the
real people in the group will listen to any arguments the
player/PC has to present.

Have any of you encountered this type of situation/scenario
in any of your role-playing?  What can be done (if anything)
to account for these PC vs. real life differences in abilities
-- (whether they are INT, WIS, CHR, or anything else you've
experienced)?  Can the game be made more playable somehow?

Thanks for any input.

+---------------------------------+
| Rusty B. Ramser                 |
| DL-DSD-21                       |
| Kennedy Space Center, FL  32899 |
|                                 |
| rusty-ramser@ksc.nasa.gov       |
+---------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology-Office of Information Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:59:06 EST
From: Paul Goodwin <CC100PG@GITVM1.GATECH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Question on why people play AD&D and all
 <68TmVB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>

To get signed on to ADND-L, send mail to userid   LISTSERV at PUCC.BITNET
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Paul
From: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:28:14 GMT
Reply-To: smp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Samuel Penn)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

Okay, the following ideas require some high level spell casters, but I don't see why
they shouldn't work:
  A temporal stasis spell. I can't remember how long this lasts for, but I presume a
good permanancy on top of it should do the trick.
  If the PC's captors are really desperate, a well worded wish.

  Feeble mind and similar spells, with maybe a permanancy thrown in for good measure in
some cases? Such spells should render his psionic powers useless, allowing more mundane
techniques to succeed. I don't have the PHB at hand at the moment, so I can't check
these ideas up to see how plausible they are, so I'll leave them to the rest of you
to pull apart.

  Of course, if this is getting to be a common occurance in the campaign, maybe some
new spells especially designed with this purpose in mind get researched? The psionic
version of anti-magic shell for instance. A magical device which disrupts all psionics
in a given area?


-- 

Sam (aka The Eternal Halfling).  | "Ilharessen zhaunhil alurl"
smp@uk.ac.ed.dcs                 | ---------------------------
samuelp@uk.ac.ed.castle          |   STMFD junk,{intel,unix}
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Read Magic
Keywords: stupidity magic spells nwp
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:10:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1gr10qINNav@crcnis1.unl.edu> pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard) writes:
>Does anyone else out there think its kind of stupid to have a spell that allows
>you to read spells?  How are you supposed to read the 'read magic' spell to
>begin with?(kind of a catch-22 I think)

	Perhaps this is just another unique interpretation of ours, but WE
always thought that Read magic was for reading SCROLLS and other magical
writings that contained the power themselves, not for reading simple
spell descriptions. You don't need read magic to read your spellbook;
otherwise, of course, you could never regain spells after a single
day because you wouldn't be able to read the book in order to gain the
spell to read the book....

	Spellcraft is actually a kind of neat idea; analyze and understand
the magic SOMEONE ELSE is casting...

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:37:47 EST
From: <ETC102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Overwhelming response

When I posted that i was a experience dungeon master that was willing
to help players I never thought of the responses i would get. Well
I have recieved and have helped over 50 people in the last week or two.
I thank you all for asking for help. I was glad I could do everything
possible. For those who missed the posting, it was basically this:
I am a very experienced dungeon master. I DM for Penn State University.
I am willing to give any advice on any areas in dungeons and dragons
if you players or DMs need it. I will be heading home for christmas break
so i will be away from the computer for a while. Those who still want
advice or just to bullshit about Advance D@D can contact me here till
next week or at my home address. Have fun players, and keep those
letters pouring in.
Eric Capets
140 Belleau woods
Trafford, PA 15085
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: 2ed class questions
From: <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:01:41 EST
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Dec10.203446.5015@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, pachang@nyx.cs.du.edu
(Peter Chang) says:
>
>1).  The PHB says on page 23. that humans can attain any level of ANY class.
>and that this is a limiting factor of other races...Yet the book also says
>that Humans are NOT allowed to be multi-class (p.44) I personally was always
>under the impression that Humans could be anything...And some character
>generators out there allow Multi-Class humans...Is this a error on my part
>as well as some other players?  or do some people just allow humans to
>be multi-class

The idea is that humans can be of any class, but just that one class.
Note that they defeat their own purpose in Legends and Lore, with
some gods that allow human multi-classes. Most people don't even care,
as they may find infinite dual-classing to be preferable (and it is,
with sufficent planning).

>2).  If a multi-class character has one class that has a limiting factor
>(ie. thieves can not be lawful good) then can a fighter/thief be lawful
>good?

I'm pretty sure they mention that multiclassers have to abide by all
restrictions from both classes (like priest/fighters being stuck
with blunt weapons, fighter/mages wearing no armor, etc.) So my guess
would be that a fighter/thief isn't going to be lawful good. Don't be
lawful good! What a prudish alignment...I jumped for joy when I saw
Horus' CG paladins...

>3).  Why can't a character of a certain race be a multi-class character
>with any two classes selectable if the character were single class?
>(ie.  an elf can be a cleric. an elf can be a fighter, why can't an elf
>be a fighter/cleric?)

Perhaps they think elven fighter/clerics sound a bit powerful. Maybe they
felt like screwing 1st ed. elven F/C's over. Who knows? If you don't like
the rule, _change it_. Just make sure everyone knows. Besides, they have
put out a Dragon magazine with some helpful specialty priest elves,
which hands some power over to single class elven clerics...I'm sure
if you asked for info on the subject, someone would have the magazine
to quote from for you, if you're interested.

Martin Schulte
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: swv3752@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Morning Reaper)
Subject: Re: psionics - FLAMES BILLOWING
Reply-To: swv3752@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:08:40 GMT

>
>	AM I the only person on this group who can comprehend the English
>language?
>
>	"DIRECTLY APPLIED" means exactly what it says (I've had a heated debate
>with a friend on this, so this ISN'T my own flame here):
>
>	You apply the power score roll to the victim's STRENGTH, NOT HIS ROLL.
>
>
>	I'LL be out of hair before this is settled!!!!!!
>/  / /  /  ///  / /  /  Tom Payne *** Louisville, KY	 / //  /  /  /  / / / /


It states that you apply the power score roll against the victims strength in a
_psychic contest_.  This implies that both sides roll a d20 according to the
rules for psychic contest.  This is essential giving the the victim a saving
throw based on strength like a regular saving throw can be modified by 
dexterity.  Additional pluses for high strength or mass might be reasonable for
each DM to decide but each side must role.
						 -Morning Reaper

"I do not hold people to my own set of ethics, rather I hold them to thier
own.  This usually entails a much more strigent set of guidelines, which are
more than likely to have been broken at one point.  The end result being that
I will be found to be more moral than them.:)"
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:08:34 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Dec13.041254.6924@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>Elves have level limits severe enough to keep them from being able to cast
>wishes.

Rings, scrolls, swords....

Even if you discount these, an elf with an 18 Intelligence could achieve
level 18 if you use the option rule that allows non-humans 1-4 more levels
if their prime requisite is high enough.

At level 18, an elf could cast a wish every day.  Let's see, 5 years per day,
times 365 days per year....  1,825 years of aging in a single real year.

I'd say that, unless there's some sort of age limit, highly intelligent
elves could have a field day with the wish spell....

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: alvalent@husc10.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: bards
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:10:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec11.181002.18414
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

I think you have the wrong idea about the Bard's Handbook.  They aren't
really kits.  They're actually about 20 different variants of the bard sub-
class.  Unlike normal kits, they don't add a little and offset it with a
hindrance.  Instead, the class gets none of the special abilities listed
for bards in the PHB (raise morale, legend lore, etc.).  Instead, you get
abilities based on your bard type.  NWP work the same way.  You get what
it says in your bard description INSTEAD of the ones in the PHB which are
now called True Bards if I'm not mistaken and are also listed in the book.

I must agree with you on some of the Bard types, though.  I have a 
Thief-Acrobat with a 19 DEX and an average Jongleur can almost automatically
outperform me.  Blades are actually better than some fighters.  What is
a person to do, eh? 
 

 
Later,
 
Lee Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:28:36 GMT

In <BzDC4n.KIA.2@cs.cmu.edu> ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:

>In article <Bz9K6B.71E@sci.kun.nl> gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course) writes:
>>In <1992Dec13.221033.22732@sfu.ca> akostur@fraser.sfu.ca (Andre John Kostur) writes:
>>
>>> Here's a way to imprison a psionicist.....put a normal helmet on his head.
>>> (PsiHB page 16 "...But if the psionicist is wearing a normal helmet of any
>>> sort, he cannot use his powers...")
>>
>>I'd rule this only work for mind-affecting powers (i.e. most telepathy and
>>mabye clairsentient powers) but woudn't affect things like psychometabolism
>>or teleportation.

>Why?  That makes the class much, much more powerful.
>-- 
>Doug DeJulio

Why not, the psionicist is hightly underclassed at higher levels as it is.
The only advantages he has left are the fact that he can still functione while
under spells like hold person and that his powers aren't obvious. For the
rest he's a whimp (especially if he doesn't have at least 3 stats of 17 or
higher)

The best psi-system I've found sofar is the one GURPS uses but I haven't had
time to adapt this to AD&D yet.

			-Smooth.
From: 6anthony_m@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:49:51 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

> 	Come on. The weight of a helmet is not even NOTICEABLE after
> a while, especially if the weather isn't too hot. If it's cold, the
> helmet may make you even MORE comfortable by protecting your head
> from cold.
> 


Hahahaha, I assume youve never worn a real helm.  Go to a renassaince festival 
next time one is in your area, and put one of them suckers on.  Either that or 
just go to the library and read about them.  You are seriously mistaken if you 
think a helm is like wearing a baseball cap... 

The Fiend
From: pgyger@ulys.unil.ch
Subject: City-State of the Invincible Overlord
Organization: University of Lausanne - CH (Switzerland)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:44:07 GMT

Does anyone here knows something about the campaign called "The City State
of the Invincible Overlord"? It was published a long time ago and Mayfair
Games published it again in 1988 or so... I have some parts of the campaign
set, but not complete... Looks like I can't find the following episodes
published after 1989 (I am playing that campaign now and I'll be stuck soon
so I have to know if I must wait or just imagine the end myself...). 
 As I am not in US, I could have missed it. Or Mayfair has perhaps stopped
publishing it... Can someone inform me about that please, it would be
really useful... Thanks in advance,

 -Patrick (pgyger@ulys.unil.ch)
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Date: 13 Dec 92 03:13:47 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <434@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>	That ain't necessarily so.
>	Some people give Elves finite lifespans, others don't. In mine
>I have two different breeds of Elves -- one which were descended from
>a Vulcanoid race and who have a lifespan of something on the order of
>10,000 years, and Tolkienian Elves, who have no limit on their lifespans--
>High Elves (the Noldor) lived through several Ages of the World, and
>probably managed a few million years here and there...

Hmm.  Well, I guess that's your opinion, and I'm not going to argue it with
you.

>	Everything doesn't die -- Gods certainly don't die naturally,
>nor do Demons, and some people don't have dragons die, just get bigger...

Well, I agree that gods don't die, nor do demons.  However, any creatures
that are part of a race, IMHO, should die.  Basically, if it was born, it
should eventually die.  Even dragons.

That leaves the question "If the gods weren't born, where'd they come from?"

That's just one of the mysteries that makes the game fun. :-)

-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:37:35 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?


ernar@dit.upm.es (Jorge F. Delgado Mendoza) writes:
> Well i couldn't agree more with seawasp in the 'supposedly upset balance' 
> of the mages wearing armor. 
> First of all, the reasoning for that rule is worth .0003$ but most of all
> it is the same:
>         In high level campaigns (or muchkins at lower levels) 
>         magic users get those flamant bracers ac6 or ac5 (even ac4)
>         and a cloak +1 and a ring +1, note that with bracers u usually
>         get better ac than with plate mail if both of them are in the
>         same range of magic pluses  
> 
>                 Bracers ac5 ring +1 cloak+1   ac 3
>                 Plate mail +1 & shield        ac 1
> 
>         and the mage has the advantage of having his ac even if he
>         wakes hurriedly in the middle of the night

Wow.  You play in differently styled campaigns than we do.  Bracers of
defense?  In our game you'd have to be high level (in the teens) to find
something like that.  By the time fighters can afford Plate Mail
(around 4th level, we have higher armor prices) the mages are no where
near getting bracers.  Rings and cloaks of protection are equally
rare.  With this setup mages not being able to wear armor is actually
a penalty.  Allowing mages to wear armor is unbalancing (power word:
"repel" for sea wasp...).  

	joe

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ac999239@umbc8.umbc.edu (ac999239)
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:02:35 GMT

What about the reverse problem? A bunch of smart players playing dumb
characters? 

The players will be thinking of things the characters would never be able to.
So should the DM make it simply not work even though it is a brilliant plan
or what?

And if an average person is playing a character with genius intelligence should
some plans work when if they are idiotic in nature?

I honestly don't think any of the books have completely addressed these issues.

The same thing can be said for wisdom...I know how to build things that have
not been invented yet, but does my character? What if my character is a genius
and calculus is not invented yet despite the fact in real life I know it!
Can my character somehow discover this branch since we ARE in an alternate
reality.

A great many dilemmas can be dredged up because of the fact the character
stats do not reflect the players stats.