HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mycroft@dorsai.com (Keith Kushner)
Subject: Re: LENSMAN?
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy +1.718.729.5018
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:50:37 GMT

sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:

: )>I agree.  Here's a koan to consider: GOOD Golden Age space opera is
: )>the same as BAD Golden Age space opera.  Doc was the first, and
: )>deserves credit, but the reason space opera is fun is because it's
: )>*so* silly.  "QX" indeed.
: )
: )	Now "clear ether" used to sound awfully silly to me... until
: )I heard people routinely saying "have a nice day"... 
: 
: What about (from memory): "cool your jets", "hipe!", "zwilnik", "space
: louse", and the all-powerful Negasphere?  *These* are examples of
: really bad "futuristic" jargon.

Not bad: wrong, perhaps, but equivalent to "cool it", "hipster/hippie",
"yuppie", "chill out", "narc", and other terms used since Doc's time,
and not really different from the sort of slang used when he was still
writing.

: I still love the books, but they're
: not really science fiction -- they're adventure/fantasy/romance novels
: written with (rather clumsy) science fiction trappings.  Kind of like
: Star Wars, which borrowed heavily from Doc Smith.

Okay, you've defined his work as Space Opera. Now what? 0:-)

The trappings weren't really "clumsy" at the time, by the way, nor
cliches.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,soc.history
From: O2NY000 <O2NY@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Mike the computer (was Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke)
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:19:45 GMT

>>latest series. Heilein died and I was reading 'The Cat who walks
>>through walls [....]
>
>>to be released already! I already have to deal with not knowing
>>what happened to Mike the computer. Where will it all end?
>
>If you want to know what happened to Mike the computer, read Heinlein's
>last novel, "To Sail Beyond the Sunset." If you don't want to read it,
>then let me (or someone) know and I'll post or e-mail the info to you.
>
>
Thanks Michael for the offer but I already read it. The book ends with
Mike being rescued, I hope, but his and his rescuers utimate fate
still unresolved. And what happens to Lazarus? Does he ever die?
Dr. Pinero never released the results of his test, did he discover
that he lives forever, or just a very, very, very long time? I sure
hope there is a heaven, I sure have a lot of questions for RAH, Herbert,
and several others.

David Szemerda.
>--
>Michael A. Burstein
>Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
>590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
>Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
>.
>.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy Middleton)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana autobuy
Organization: University of Waterloo Software Liberation Army
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:51:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
> I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
> Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
> money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.

Hardcover:
	Iain Banks
	Guy Kay
	Tim Powers

Paperback:
	Lois McMaster Bujold
	Cole & Bunch
	Glen Cook
	Jack Vance
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Anyone like to comment on Garden of Rama?
Date: 15 Dec 92 04:01:54 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <Bz6xxG.F3F@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, hartlemp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Michael P Hartley) writes:
>major spoilers for above...
>
>   Anyone agree? Disagree?

The stuff's not worth wasting your time on arguing over it. I wish
Gentry Lee got a decent job in some newer Viking project...

-- 
---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:30:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.031301.5750@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>In article <guay.724099614@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>>Hi; 
>>
>>Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't     
>>mainstream commercial SF.
>

_Camp Concentration_, and _On Wings Of Song_ by Thomas Disch
_The Perfect Lover_ by Christopher Priest
_Solaris_ by Stanislaw Lem
_Palimpsest_ by Carter Scholz and Bruce Harnencourt
_Fourth Mansions_ by R.A. Lafferty
From: mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:39:05 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu (Mitch Silverman)
Organization: Hah!

In article <1gime7INNrnp@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.163037.17375@gvl.unisys.com> rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) writes:
>>
>>_Palimpsest_ by Carter Scholz and Bruce Harnencourt
>
>Agh!  I've done my best to forget that one.  I saw it one day
>in a friend's collection; it fit all my test criteria for
>good sf (literary marketing, basically), so I asked to borrow it.
>
[Assorted calumny deleted]
>
>_Palimpsest_ is the worst sf novel I have ever read, by at least two
>orders of magnitude.....

[More assorted calumny deleted]

>In fact, I have proven rigorously that it represents the theoretical
>asymptote of awful fiction in the English language.
>
>c
>but the proof won't fit in the margins

[I couldn't delete such a Fermat-ical criticism....]

You know, I think that was the first of the New Ace Science Fiction
Specials that I read.  I kinda liked it.

In fact, I thought it about as interesting as another book in the same
Ace series that got a lot of press--by a guy named Gibbon, was it? Well,
his problem was he tried to write stuff about computers by just making
stuff up--his lack of relevant expertise was obvious.  He wrote about
security software manifesting itself visually--what de he call it, ice?
It'll never happen.  Funny, but I haven't heard much from this Gibbon
guy recently.
 
Now Ryan's _The Adolescence of P-1_--*there's* a novel about a *real*
artificial intelligence!

Mitch Silverman
Student, New College of the University of South Florida
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: arxt@quads.uchicago.edu (Dave Palmer)
Subject: Re: Any reviews of _Mostly Harmless_ by Douglas Adams?
Reply-To: arxt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:03:19 GMT


	Spoiler-free review:

	Well, Mostly Harmless is really great until the actual plot starts
going, which is about three quarters of the way into the book.  The reason for
this is that the actual plot is really no good and seems to take itself way too
seriously.  It would have been much better if it was less structured, like
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
Oh course, this is from someone who thought that Life, The Universe, and
Everything and So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish are better off forgotten.
	Adams has some really ingenious ideas in Mostly Harmless, as he always
does, and it's very well written.  But he just had to have some kind of plot
to string it all together, didn't he? Which would be ok, if the plot was a
little more interesting.
	I give it two and a half stars.  Don't bother to buy the hardcover,
wait until you find it in paperback.  Better yet, wait until you see an old,
beat up paperback copy covered with dust in a lost part of a used book store
for fifty cents.

	And now for the review with spoilers:



	Arthur's daughter Random really messes up the whole book.  Somehow the
characterization of her doesn't quite fit with a Hitchhiker's trilogy book.
I guess that's how Adams wanted it to be, but he could at least make her not
fit in in a more harmonious way, you know?
	Also, the ending seems kind of forced.  I liked how the first book
ended.  I especially liked how Restaurant at the End of the Universe ended.
But my God, I hate how this one ends.  It seems to me that Adams is trying
to make it clear that there won't be any more sequels, but instead ends up
making a sequel necessary.  The ending just isn't complete.

	--The Midwesterner
-- 

"Take it easy, take it easy/don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you
crazy/lighten up while you still can/don't even try to understand/just find a
place to make your stand and take it easy"	   -The Eagles, "Take it Easy"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: caa@Unify.Com (Chris A. Anderson)
Subject: Re: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Reply-To: caa@unify.com (Chris Anderson)
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, California
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:53:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.164938.15310@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
> 	If  the people having  children have  them  too  fast,  they
> could overcome  thecarrying  capacity of their  environment  badly
> enough  to *reduce* the  longterm carrying capacity (Look  at North
> Africa, or the collapse of  Mayan  culture); in  that  case, having
> kids  could result in  a  net reduction  of  population levels. 

Self correcting problem.

Chris
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Chris Anderson, Unify Corp.                caa@unify.com  |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: WOTF - Writers of the Future Contest
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:36:41 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: chagall.cns.caltech.edu

Since quite a few people expressed interest in the WOTF contest,
here's some info:


The WOTF contest is quarterly:  all the entries gathered during
a three-month period are read by Dave Wolverton who selects
passable stories.  These stories are then passed on to a panel of
judges that includes writers like Larry Niven and Roger Zelazny.
They vote and three winners are picked for the quarter.
Once a year the 12 winners from four quarters are gathered to
workshop, get awards, rub elbows, and just plain party.

The address (for contest entries and info requests) is:

	L. Ron Hubbard's Writers of the Future Contest
	P.O. Box 3190
	Los Angeles, CA 90078

The contest administrators, especially Algis, Dave, and Rachel,
are all very nice and friendly people.  There is also an Illustrators
Contest.  Both contests are great events for budding talent.
   _
-- Ojvind

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Anarchy in S.F.
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:59:03 GMT


In a previous article, rjk@world.std.com (robert j kolker) says:
>
>I can think of two SF novels that have anarchy or anarchic societies as a
>theme and context. They are:
>
>	THE DISPOSSESSED by U.LaGuin
			      LeGuin
>	INHERIT THE STARS by Hogan
	VOYAGE  FROM YESTER(DAY?YEAR?)

>Can you good folks think of any others?
>
>Conan the Libertarian

	There's a whole slew of anarchocapitalist stuff from folks like
L. Neil Smith, F. Paul Wilson, and J. Neil Schulman. Since I tend to 
classify their work as a subset of the class of quasi-utopian economic
masturbation literature, and lengthy discussion of this subgenre makes
me  projectile vomit,  I'll let someone else talk about the 'merits' of 
this crap, such as it is.

	Other  flavours of anarchic  society include works where the
social order has collapsed, although the anarchy tends to be unstable
('Death of Grass', 'Lot's Wife',  and  I suppose 'Cloak of Anarchy').
Iain Bank's Culture novels ('Consider Phlebas', 'State of the Art'
'Use  of Weapons' and 'Player of Games') feature an allegedly anarchic
grossly wealthy civilisation which has never heard of the non-interference
doctrine. Be warned that the text-style of the Zeising edition of SotA
can cause ocular hemorraging. 

	For a  more drug-saturated  anarchy, see Robert Wilson's Illuminati
books, which I will not list here for fear I might commit suicide by tying
my hands behind my back and hanging  myself from a pier below the high
tide line.

							James Nicoll

Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:16151 soc.history:10108
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,soc.history
Subject: Re:  Civil War Alternate Histories
From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith)
Date: 13 Dec 92 14:49:08 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: Muppet Labs

In article <1g8juqINNrkf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa396@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Henley) writes:
>
>My favorite (though slightly horrifying) idea for an alternate
>CW-era history is this; what if there had been a few less "fire-
>eaters" in the South and a few more level-headed pro-slavery
>types who refused to panic when Lincoln was elected?  If the
>Southern states had remained peacefully in the Union, Lincoln
>would have had neither constitutional nor political power to
>do anything about slavery in the states where it existed.  The
>South might have waited Lincoln out and for a long time after-
>wards -- even conceivably to the present-- we might have had
>a Union with slavery surviving.  (It was the view of many on
>both the pro- and anti-slavery side that slavery would be
>"in the course of extinction" if it was not allowed to expand
>into new territories; but I'm not at all sure this would have
>turned out correct.)

Read "Terraplane" by Jack Womack. I forget the exact details of the
alternate history involved, but it has a parallel 20th century in which
slavery still exists in parts of the US.


--
...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......
   Mine is the ship bound for Alpha Centauri
   We must be out of our minds
   For though we are shipmates bound for tomorrow
   Everyone here's flying blind                          (Crystal Gayle)
--

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: novak@wri.com (John M. Novak)
Subject: Re: _Falcon_ and Emma Bull
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:26:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.014328.11036@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
sej5g@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Susie Juroff) writes:
>Also look for The Year's Best Fantasy & Horror, edited by Ellen
>Datlow & Terri Windling. She's been in at least once (I think
>we're in year 5 now of the collection) also the Bordertown
>series edited by Terri Windling (I think).  Emma Bull has
>written at least one short story in those three (to my
>knowledge, only three) collectins.

She is listed in the front of Will Shetterly's (sp?) new Bordertown novel
(_Elsewhere_, I think it was called) as having a full length novel of her own
in Bordertown coming up soon.

I believe she also has stories in the _Liavek_ shared world (seeing as how she
and Will S. were the editors...)

Incidentally, I like all of her books, but my favorite is by far _The War for
the Oaks_.
--John N.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: grey@bnr.ca (grey)
Subject: JAMES MORROW: The Wine of Violence
Keywords: morrow
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:17:20 GMT

I'm a big fan of James Morrow, author of This is the Way the World Ends,
Only Begotten Daughter, and City of Truth.

The latest of these books (a novella) lists 3 prior publications:
   The Wine of Violence
   The Continent of Lies
   Swatting at the Cosmos

I've been unable to obtain any information concerning these books. Has
anyone read them? Are they recommended? Who was the publisher and are
they out of print?

Thanks for any help,
grey

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
grey@bnr.ca			              I think I know enough of hate
greymouser			     	      To say that for destruction ice
my own opinions, not those of my employer     Is also great, and would suffice
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Bathroom reading
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 17:22:55 EST

In article <1992Dec12.222211.23834@netcom.com>
rebekah@netcom.com (Rebekah J. Jensen) writes:
 
>
>Hullo all!
>
>Recently they've come out with "Bathroom Readers" full of general fiction,
>etc. for the general public, what about some good bathroom reading for SF
>lovers?  Does anyone out there have some suggestions of what would be good
>material essential to any bathroom redecoration?  I'd think it would need to
>be light and/or funny and short.  Or do you have a tried-and-tested
>favorite? :-)
>
 
   The Collected Short Stories of Robert Sheckley
   The Collected Short Stories of Philip K Dick (though some novellas are
obviously too long)
 
    Junsok Yang
From: jseaver@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
Date: 17 Dec 1992 03:35:51 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In article <oz.724556011@yorku.ca> oz@nexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit) writes:
>Matthew P Wiener writes [regarding RWR]:
>
>>Exactly.  It's called "sense of wonder", something science fiction
>>likes to pride itself on, but missing far too often.  RWR is one of
>>the ultimates, lifting most readers to an astonished awe and joy.
>
>I agree whole-hartedly. I consider it one of the finest I have ever read,
>and I *distincly* remember the *lift* Matthew is referring to. It also was
>my first Clarke, and I remember standing on the grounds of York university,
>clutching the paperback that I had just finished reading, wondering how
>thank the person who had recommended it to me.
>
>>I, for one, absolutely refuse to look at the sequels.
>
>Same here.

	Your loss. If you look at RwR and the follow-ups as stories that
inhabit the same universe and not necessarily direct sequels and enjoy them
for what they are, you can really enjoy Rama II & Garden of Rama.  They're
meant to provoke different emotions; while RwR is great at provoking wonder,
I found Rama II to be one of the best SF thrillers I've ever read; it was like
reading something Tom Clancy or Stephen Coonts had written.  You may not care
for that, but for those who do, the later books are definately worth picking
up.

	I read Rama II before RwR, so hopefully you'll forgive me if I say the
first seemed a bit pallid by comparison; I've got no doubt I would have been
_really_ impressed if it had been the first one I read.  Rama II and Garden of
Rama are really impressive if viewed as far-future technothrillers, rather
than as an expansion of Rendezvous.

	Speaking of which, would anyone else like to see Tom Clancy do an sf
novel?  He seems to enjoy the genre (I've seen blurbs from him on sf novels);
if might be interesting to see how he does.
From: morin@noao.edu (Meg Morin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:37:17 GMT
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson AZ

In article <BzD2Eo.Hts@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>
>(About Heinlein.)
>
>>To summarize:  I disagree with the extremists on both sides of this
>>argument.  I think H was a good, sometimes great, writer, who rose above
>>an amazing number of the prejudices and biases that were installed in
>>him at an early age.  He was neither the ideal enlightened citizen of
>>the 20th century, nor a recalictrant, unreconstructed old curmudgeon. 
>>He was a man of above average intelligence, lucky enough to see through
>>many of our cultural stereotypes, and a gifted writer.  No more, no less.
>
>>In my rather arrogant opinion.  :-)
>
>I essentially agree. Would just like to add, that Heinlein impresses 
>me most for one particular reason. Ever notice how well he, in the mid 20th
>century, caught the flavor of the late 20th century?

Ditto to both of the above commentators. I really like Heinlein's writings
(although sometimes he rambles heavily). Some of my very, very favorite
quotations are from his books. I think he had an excellent perception of
the innate strengths and weakness of humankind ... either gender and 
regardless of time-frame. He recognized potential for men and women, and
was only hindered (if at all) by the known experiences of his era/generation.
I feel that he was amasingly able to rise above the limits of his time,
and recognize the realistic possibilities of human relationships.

I'm terribly sad that I 'discovered' him only a few years before he passed
away. I was into my third book (The Cat Who Walks through Walls) before I
found out he was not a 'contemporary' writer. 

So, flame me if you will ... I'm addicted to Heinlein ... and anyone who
thinks/writes along the same attitude!

So there! :-P'

-- 
 The Seeker		peace to those who come in peace 
 (morin@noao.edu)	    pity to those who don't 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jhawk@panix.com (John Hawkinson)
Subject: Child of an Ancient City?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:17:56 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Hi, all.

I was wondering if anybody knew anything about
_Child_Of_An_Ancient_City by Tad Williams and <somebody-
whose-name-I-forget-right-now>? (i.e. what it's about?)

It's my recollection it was supposed to be (and probably was/is)
out last month...

Thanks.

--
John Hawkinson
jhawk@panix.com
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: QX and on green! (was Re: LENSMAN?)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:39:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec16.035953.5684@pages.com> bwebster@pages.com writes:
>
>My favorite bit of Smithese is the useful "never-to-be-sufficiently-damned",  
>which I have used myself on any number of occasions (usually in reference to  
>cars and operating systems). 
>
And "quadruply-and-sulfurously-qualified."  ('Qualified' meaning 'modified
with adjectives.')


Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

(I _gotta_ go dig out those books...)

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer)
Subject: Re: _Falcon_ and Emma Bull
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 01:12:18 EST

In article <1992Dec13.070019.12191@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
 
>
>Based on some comments I've read on the net, last time I was in a book-
>buying mode, I looked around for something by Emma Bull.  All I found
>was a book called _Falcon_, which I have started but not yet finishd.
>
>My impression of _Falcon_ is nicely defined characters in a fairly
>standard issue plot.
>
>My questions are:
>  - What other books has she written (besides _War for the Oaks_ and
>    _Bone Dance_)?
>  - How does _Falcon_ compare with her other works?
 
I haven't actually read any of her other works.  I did, however, leaf through
_Bone Dance_ and promptly put it down in disgust.
 
However, I thought _Falcon_ was excellent.  The ending (which I obviously
won't reveal here) caught me by surprise and pleased me immensely.
 
Hurry up and finish it! :-)
 
 
 
*************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A        |   Rebecca@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
(a.k.a Organic Lass of the LNH) |   Computing Assistant
                                |   Silliman College, Yale University
 
"You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can't tell him much."
                                                    - Anonymous
*************************************************************************
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written