HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stefano@ecf.toronto.edu (Bruno Di Stefano)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Negotiating longer vacation time (Re: Why do Americans .....)
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:05:40 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

Over the years I have known several people who have succesfully negotiated
longer vacation time. Generally speaking, these people were all relatively
senior (at least 40 years old), had some skills in high demand, and were
working in non manufacturing environment. While in the very beginning, this
extra vacation time seemed to be at the expenses of more money, eventually,
in all cases, these people have been able to bridge the gap in 3 to 5 years.

I remember the specific case of a guy who got an offer to be a manager of
hardware design group (year 1979) and presented a counter offer to the
potential employer: "I'll accept for 5% less salary if you give me, in
writing with the offer, 5 weeks vacation". The company was very reluctant,
but eventually accepted because the guy had special skills. He bridged the
salary gap by 1981, reahing the guys who were having just 2 weeks vacation.

I'm wondering how many readers of this group have had similar experiences,
directly or indirectly.


-- 
Bruno Di Stefano
stefano@ecf.toronto.edu		(course related matters)
bruno@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu	(professional matters)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bgm@cray.com (Bert Moshier)
Subject: Re: Job in UNIX vs OS/2 world.
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:36:59 CDT

In article <FRANCIS.92Sep1124922@galois.dogwood.atl.ga.us> francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.123823.25049@hemlock.cray.com> bgm@cray.com (Bert Moshier) writes:
>
>>
>>Not to raise a flame, but how are your measuring marketshare growth.  I know
>>that OS/2 sold 1,000,000 copies in its first four months and did another
>			  ^^^^^^
>
>Keep in mind that Unix may sell one copy, but get a hundred users.
>

I came from the mainframe (VM) world.  I understand how one copy can support
10,000 end-users (as in VM/ESA on one ES/9000 machine).

This is kind of true for OS/2.  IBM sells additional licenses. 
John Soyring (an official IBM spokesman) pointed this out to me.  He told me
about a bank which bought one of the 1,000,000 shrinkwrap copies but then
bought thousands of additional license, which don't count in the 1,000,000
number.  The bank uses OS/2 at every teller, and every worker's station.

I realize UNIX is multi-user and OS/2 (at this time) is not, but as I said
it is kind of true for OS/2.

Bert Moshier
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How to quit after 2 weeks?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:34:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <1992Aug30.200257.13660@iitmax.iit.edu> chinkev@elof.iit.edu (Kevin A. Chin) writes:
>I have a problem (well not really to most people), about
>quiting after two weeks.
>Then my #1 choice offered me a position, how should I
>handle this? I am somewhat hestitant to quit (guilty) after 

It amazes me that people still worry about what the employer will
feel if one quits, even after two weeks.  Do you think the employer
would worry if he laid you off do to a slump in the industry?  Let's
face it, nowadays, one has to look out for one's self.  Go ahead and
quit job#3.  Take the job#1.  You've got to do what is in the best
interest for yourself.  It is a hard road out there.  Take care of 
number one first!		--Keith

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:6117 talk.politics.misc:42231 soc.culture.usa:6914
From: rslade@fraser.sfu.ca (Robert Slade)
Subject: Hiring in a Recession (H2H)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:48:52 GMT

INTRO2.H2H   920829
 
                     Hiring in a Recession
 
There is a recession on right now.  Oh, sure, there may be some
argument as to depth and causes, and we might argue about
whether or not there is a recovery happening, but the fact
remains that this is not the best time to be running a business.
 
Lots of companies are trying to cut costs.  The easiest way to
do that is to cut salaries.  The easiest way to do that is to
fire people.  So there are massive layoffs (and some not so
massive, but equally devastating to those involved) everywhere
you look in every type of industry.
 
So why talk about hiring?
 
Well, you can get some good bargains right now.  You have a
ready supply.  But mostly, right now you have the best
"selection".
 
After all, those layoffs are not being made on the basis of
"merit".  Let's face it, does the hospital board say "the
education department isn't pulling its weight"?  No.  They say,
"We need the money.  Everybody we hire has to have either an MD
or an RN or something.  We don't need an education department. 
Haul out the pink slips."  Thus making two mistakes for the
price of one.
 
Now, you may not be in the market for an education department. 
The Director of Education, however, has to have been a pretty
good manager.  So if you are looking for a manager, you may be
able to get someone with a string of citations and awards to his
name.  Someone who would never be available in "better" economic
times.
 
But.  It isn't going to be any easier to find these people now
than it is when the labour supply is short.  It is still going
to take the same amount of work, or possibly more, because you
have more people applying and more resumes to plow through.  The
gems are out there, but it takes work, planning and some basic
skills to get to them.
 
A lot of managers are making the mistake of thinking that simply
because there are a lot of people looking for work, the task of
finding someone to hire is much easier.  Sure, you can take the
easy road, and just hire someone on "feel".  And you'll be in
good company.
 
After all, how do you think all those big companies got to the
point of having to fire so many people?
 
copyright Robert M. Slade, 1992   INTRO2.H2H   920829
From: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Subject: Re: How to motivate peers in a quality circle?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Reply-To: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:00:22 GMT

In article <4_bnk+n.mesm@netcom.com>, mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
|> A couple  of things that I noticed when  I was a QC leader are
|> 
|> * People like recognition. Not just saying to their face that
|> you notice, but saying it to someone else.
|> 
|> * Many people are afraid. I found that a large task that I faced
|> was keeping people from being overly critical of others ideas.
|> The self-confidence that people got from having ideas, having 
|> the ideas recognized and appreciated gave them a better
|> self-image. I don't know if this is true accross the board
|> but in my experience, those that had a better self-image contributed
|> more.
|> 
|> 
|> --
|> Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
|> mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
|> =====================================================================
|> Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA


That second point on self-image (self confidence?), have you had any problem with
some people being too confident and thus consciously or unconsciously putting
other people (or their ideas) down? How did/would you handle/prevent that? 

Joe Tien
From: burris@ennex1.eng.utsa.edu (John Burris)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Test Engineering
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:46:04 GMT
Reply-To: burris@ennex1.eng.utsa.edu (John Burris)
Organization: Univ of Texas at San Antonio

Folks,

I have been looking for a job in the electronics test engineering field  
for quite some time now to no avail.  I worked for a government contractor  
here in San Antonio, TX for approximately two years developing test  
programs and adapters using the GenRad 1796 test station.  

Does anyone know if there is a current need for someone with my background  
and if so, where?

John
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need Advice/CS major w/ bad grades
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com


    
    [some misguided soul wrote...]
>
>> > I am thinking of becoming a technical writter.
>> 
>In article <90750003@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com>, sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A) writes:
>> Does anyone else find this sentence pretty funny?
>> 
In article <1992Aug27.142031.8106@walter.cray.com> sonic@romulus.cray.com (Curtis Swanson) writes:
>
>With the various types of keyboards on the market and varying quality
>thereof, no.  I miss a lot of extra letters added to my posts as well....
>
   But if you were "thinking of becoming a tech writter [sic]",
   wouldn't you CORRECT the !@#$!@#$ posting before making it
   public?

   Engineers are infamous for poorly formatted and sloppy
   resumes....but I certainly would expect an applicant for a tech
   writer to be capable of producing a dazzling correctly spelled
   resume...
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: international software jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:59:08 GMT

The International Computer Professional Association is a member supported
organization for experienced software professionals who want to work overseas.
We have contact with over 750 technical recruitment firms in the US and
abroad. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us and we will
send you information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net



Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rslade@fraser.sfu.ca (Robert Slade)
Subject: How to Hire column (H2H)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:45:59 GMT

INTRO1.H2H   920829
                 Introduction to How to Hire Column
 
This file/posting/column, and the ones which will follow, are a
weekly column devoted to explaining and exploring some of the
issues involved in hiring personnel.  The material can be
roughly divided into topic areas such as the job description,
the ad, the interview and so forth.  The file name (at the
beginning and end of each column) will try to reflect this, and
will also contain a sequence number and end with H2H ("How to
Hire").
 
The format is intended to be as easy as possible for all mail
systems and terminals to handle.  Each "column" will be
approximately one typewritten page in length.
 
I retain copyright of this material.  Anyone is free to post any
of this material on any publicly accessible electronic bulletin
board or electronic mail system which does not charge for
connect time or data transfer, provided that the files/postings
are posted intact, including my copyright notice, the filename
and date at the beginning and end and my contact addresses. 
Those running commercial online services (such as Compuserve),
commercial print publishing ventures or "in-house" newsletter
are specifically prohibited from using this material without
express written permission from the author.  Anyone wishing to
post this material on a commercial system, or to print it in a
book or periodical, please contact me, and I'm sure we can work
something out.
 
Internet Robert_Slade@sfu.ca ROBERTS@decus.ca rslade@cue.bc.ca p1@CyberStore.ca
Fidonet Rob Slade at 1:153/733 or 1:153/7050 or Robert Slade at 1:153/915
CyberStore is available direct dial at 604-526-3676
 
At the moment, there is no provision for archiving of the
material.  Anyone wishing/willing to do so, please contact me. 
Those wishing back copies or missed copies will be out of luck
until that happens.  Don't bother to request them: I have no
"listserver" capability.
 
There is no warranty either express or implied in my writing or
your reading this material.  If you get sued for your dealings
with your personnel, you probably deserve it.
 
copyright Robert M. Slade, 1992   INTRO1.H2H   920829
From: lsmith@unssun.nevada.edu (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need Advice/CS major w/ bad grades
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:26:24 GMT
Reply-To: lsmith@unssun.UUCP (Larry Smith)
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno

>In article <90750003@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com>, sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A) writes:
>> > I am thinking of becoming a technical writter.
>> 
>> Does anyone else find this sentence pretty funny?
>> 

I see you've never had a stickkkking kkkkkey on your kkkkkeyboard.

Hint for the day: don't drip peanut butter and jelly on your kkkkeyboard.


 Just the facts ma'm.....
                         LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday
 Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts!
                                     Rush Limbaugh
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: minor@rtsg.mot.com (Kevin Minor)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:36:21 GMT

cote@cs.ucsd.edu (Brad Cote) writes:

|>jdaly@cs.strath.ac.uk (John W Daly CS89) writes:

|>>Hope I`m not restarting an original arguement - I haven`t read the
|>>articles here for a while - but do Americans receive paid holidays to the
|>>same extent the British do?  We receive about, on average I think, 25 -
|>>30 paid hlidays which can be taken throughout the year.  This doesn`t include
|>>Chrimbas time and Easter.  I was informed that Americans do not receive
|>>many payed holidays at all, and was wondering if this was true.

|>>Just out of curiosity ... :-)

|>>John
|> 
|>It depends on where you work. I've worked for three companies
|>(in the computer field) since 1985:

No not really. In general, Europeans get more vacation time than
Americans. We had some folks from the UK come over here (UK employees, 
but the same company) and a big issue was the difference in the lower
amount of vacation that is given over here.

Some european countries are even worse. I believe our Swedish employees 
(same company) get tons of vacation time. But I understand that it
is required by law.
Some weird law where they must take a 3 week (consecutive) vacataion
some time during the year, and they still have more time on top of that.
Of course, I may have not understood that right since I was still in
shock at the total amount of vacation they got.
-- 
	/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
	|	Kevin Minor	UUCP: ...uunet!mcdchg!motcid!minor	|
	|			Mail: minor@rtsg.mot.com		|
	\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Portland Headhunters
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:24:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: psg.1992Aug31.022458.14235
Distribution: na
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon, US

duwors@csi.uottawa.ca (Robert J. Du Wors) writes:
> susan@falcon5.ericsson.se (Susan Cohen) writes:
>> I'm looking for names& numbers of headhunters in Portland, Oregon.
> Me too...Took the words right out of my mouth. 

As a hiring manager in Portland (know any C++ implementation folk? ODB and
Smalltalk types who like to travel?), I use SF headhunters, as there are no
sophisticated CS types in Orygun.

And stay away from Cheatan Shah and Northwest Inc.  They have been caught in
unethical practices.  And, last checked, were not even licensed as required
by the Stste.

randy
-- 
randy@psg.com   ...!uunet!m2xenix!randy
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: cote@cs.ucsd.edu (Brad Cote)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:35:25 GMT

jdaly@cs.strath.ac.uk (John W Daly CS89) writes:

>Hope I`m not restarting an original arguement - I haven`t read the
>articles here for a while - but do Americans receive paid holidays to the
>same extent the British do?  We receive about, on average I think, 25 -
>30 paid hlidays which can be taken throughout the year.  This doesn`t include
>Chrimbas time and Easter.  I was informed that Americans do not receive
>many payed holidays at all, and was wondering if this was true.

>Just out of curiosity ... :-)

>John
 
It depends on where you work. I've worked for three companies
(in the computer field) since 1985:

Bell Northern Research 		15 days vacation 
				9  days holiday (I think)

General Dynamics		10 days vacation (yrs 1-7)
				15 days vacation (yrs 7+)
				7  days holiday (could have been 10)

UCSD				15 days vacation
				9  days holiday (I think)

I have never used up all my vacation time, I always got money
when I left a company (2 weeks pay at both BNR and GD). Right
now, I have 190 hours of vacation time acrued in 2.5 years
at UCSD. 

After a week off in October, I don't see any more vacations
comming up until next summer, at the earliest.

One thing that people haven't mentioned, is that with two
people working in a family, it is sometimes hard to arrange
time off that is convenient for both (not to mention getting
a good time for kids). I enjoy my job a great deal, and I
also play hard on the weekends (sailing, swimming, surfing,
bike riding, drinking a few brewskis, riding my motorcycle).

	
				Brad Cote'
				University of California, San Diego
				STARE Project
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: shadlock@well.sf.ca.us (Shad Tomlinson)
Subject: UNIX / MS Windows Engineers wanted...
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ALL
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:56:00 GMT

                    Z-Mail, Z-Fax - Z-Code Software
                  **********************************

Z-Code Software Corporation in San Rafael, CA is seeking strong,
experienced -senior- software engineers in the following categories:

    Z-Fax:  UNIX, X must.  Knowledge of fax modems a plus.

    Z-Mail:  Microsoft Windows.  Just a great GUI programmer.

The best candidate would be the type of person that has done a lot
of personal programming -- a wiz at Windows or X programming. Someone
that has such a desire to program and build apps, that you spend a
lot of personal time building cool utilities and things.  A dedicated
hacker.

Please don't phone initial correspondence unless you were told
about this and literally have no email access.  (415) 499-8649

I'd rather see code samples than a resume (at first).  Send an ftp
site if code is too large for email. If you must send a resume,
please send text only -- no formatting code like troff.  Also, when
you send mail, let us know what you're doing now, what you've done
recently with X and/or Windows, and what other sorts of things you
think might be pertinent.

About Z-Mail:

Z-Mail is the most portable electronic mail package on the market
today ported to virtually all UNIX platforms and DOS.  (We need
someone to take this port over to Windows.) UNIX World magazine
awarded Z-Mail Product of the Year in 1991.  Z-Mail supports Motif,
Open Look and character based (tty) interfaces.

About Z-Code Software:

Z-Code is located in Marin County, about a 15 minutes north of the
Golden Gate Bridge.  There are now 12 people in the company, soon to
be at least 15 by the end of the year.  Stock options available, etc..
Very casual environment.

Mail all correspondence to personnel@z-code.com
From: ccoprbm@prism.gatech.EDU (Bruce Mccullough)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need Advice/CS major w/ bad grades
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:11:54 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <90750003@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com> sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A) writes:
>> I am thinking of becoming a technical writter.
>
>Does anyone else find this sentence pretty funny?
Yep!!    (Southern word for yes)




-- 
Bruce Mccullough-Tech Assistant   | "The sharpest sword cannot cut itself".
Office of Information Technology  | "Look into the book of mirrors and find 
Georgia Institute of Technology   | all the knowledge you will ever need to  
Internet: ccoprbm@prism.gatech.edu| know". -    The Teacher              
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Unix Certificate- Worth it or not?
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:46:09 GMT

|> Straight to the punch- Ga Tech Continuing Education offers several certificate
|> programs in UNIX, networking, software engineering, etc. I have some good
|> experience in Unix but was wondering if the certificate would help in my 
|> job search endevours. I'll list the required courses with a brief description
|> so that you may get a better understanding.
|> 3 required courses:
|>   1)UNIX for users/programmers(beginner) -   I'd have no problem with this
|>   2)UNIX Shell Programming(intermediate) -   no experience here
|>   3)Unix System Administration(advanced)  -   training in this area now
|> 
|> 2 Electives:
|>   1)X Windows - I have no experience here
|>   2)Unix tools- some experience here     
|> 
|> Since I am a staff member I'd be getting a discount so the total cost would
|> be about $2300. Is that to much?

A certificate might impress some employers, but knowledge you gain through
the courses will impress many more.  Are these semester length courses with
programming homework and projects?  If so, I'm sure they'd give you a great
UNIX foundation and $2300 is probably a bargain price.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: >>>>> How to quit after 2 weeks?
Organization: gte
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:48:09 GMT

lost attribution:
> > I have a problem (well not really to most people), about
> > quiting after two weeks.
> >
> > My #3 choice for employment gave me an offer, I accepted.
> > (After waiting ~ month for other responses from #1 and 2.)
> > Then my #1 choice offered me a position, how should I
> > handle this? I am somewhat hestitant to quit (guilty) after 
> > they have spent these 2 weeks training me? I think I would
> > like to change positions without burning too many bridges.

IMHO, the biggest thing to consider is where this job is taking 
you.  8-10 years from now you are likely to look back and trace
the path that has you locked into a very narrow field (as I am
currently doing).  

If the other job is going to give you a more diverse background,
then I'd probably lean toward quitting and going to it.

If the other job is in the same field, with a similar background,
and in the same geographical area, chance are you'll get the 
opportunity to work there within 5 years anyway.  (The same won't
be true of the company you are at if you quit.)

So the big question is "Will the future at company #1 give me
experience that would be useful here at company #3?"  If the 
answer is yes, I wouldn't move.  (Face it, company #3 wasn't
so bad that you turned down the offer.)

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc