HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Keywords: racing autos formula1 newsgroups
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:30:03 GMT

dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>I'm willing to go through with the process of voting and dealing with
>the various postings to create a group for Formula 1.

>I think that it's stifling discussion of a broad range of topics that
>should be discussed in a "sporting" automotive group.
[...]
>I think that the F1 clan deserves its own sandbox and I am willing to
>facilitate this (boy am I going to regret this).

Yeah, me too...

Much as it pains me to say it, I agree with you.  The problem has gotten
to be not just the sheer volume of traffic, but the extrordinary
contortions I've had to put into my kill file to get rid of all the "I
love/hate Senna/Mansell/Schumacher/etc." traffic.  This unfortunately
has gotten to the point that my kill file is now killing articles that I
would have wanted to read, just to get the noise level down.  (I checked
yesterday, after my kill file killed 55 articles.)  Not only that, but
I'm starting to see some posted hostility towards things that aren't
strictly about F1. 

Y'know, a few years ago, I used to spend a lot of time hanging out
in rec.sport.baseball.  I was doing some sabermetric work (middle
relievers, if anyone here cares), and posting weekly summaries.
There was a lot of love/hate traffic in that group too, but those
who gave a damn made it a point to ignore the stuff, and exercise
kill files as much as possible to filter it out.

So what happened?  Well, the love/haters started to flame me and others
for posting "long, boring s**t that no one wants to read".  E-mail
wars occurred, and some people's system managers got sucked into it,
and immediately after that meaningful traffic in the group dropped
to almost nothing, as all the non-love/haters gave up on it.  (Some
had to in order to protect their jobs.)

When Bob Kehoe got that poison e-mail a couple of months ago, well,
what does this sound like?  Deja vu all over again, as Yogi Berra
once said.  I got pretty worried about it for a while.  People like
Bob do not need to be driven off by love/hate flamers.  But then it
seemed to settle down for a while.  Now I see it starting to flare up
again -- and someone's gonna get burned.

And unfortunately, nearly all of the love/hate traffic seems to be
coming out of the F1 camp.  So, it's time to segregate them.

>What do you say?

I say you've got my vote.


-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-6457
(cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Economaki on PITSTOP (8/11)
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:11:22 GMT

Here's the story (from memory) on how Chris E. got started in
calling the races on ABC's Wide World of Sports in the early 60s:

In '61 some other major network attempted to broadcast some race from
Daytona (I think some made-for-TV type of event.).  It turned out to
be a complete disaster.  Big Bill France at the time was putting in
some tremendous efforts to polish up NASCAR's image and get it going
big time.  He was disgusted with the end product.

About this time Roone Arledge was putting Wide World of Sports together,
basically experimenting with everything from horse racing to hula hoops.
In '62 he wanted to televise the Firecracker 250 and approached France
about doing so.  Big Bill, based on the previous results, initially
said "No Way".  But Arledge was persistant, stating that the previous
debacle was on another network, etc.  Anything France suggested, Arledge
would consider.

France said that the really problem stemmed from the fact that the other
network's broadcast was shitty cuz whomever called the race had no clue
or experience on auto racing - they didn't even know the direction the
cars should be going on the track.  France insisted that he would have
the authority to name who'd do the broadcast on WWoS.  At the time,
Chris had been doing live PA at Daytona, even when they were still
running the Beach race prior to '59, when the permanent track was built.
So France called Chris E. into his office and told him he WOULD do the
ABC telecast.  Chris, never having done TV, obliged.  Several weeks
later, Arledge decided he wanted to also do the USAC race from Trenton,
I believe.  He gave Chris a call to ask if he'd work that event.  Chris
basically replied with the "Is the Pope Catholic?" line.  And that (in
Chris' words) is how it all started.

Now, for those of you guys on the net who don't remember what
motorsports coverage on TV in the 60's was (or was not):  Sometimes
when I'm apt to bitch about some flaw in today's coverage, I stop and
bite my tongue, 'cuz there was a time when we had, basically, nuthin'.

-c'ball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 02:20:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1144@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.031527.13944@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>[on driver-owned teams]
>>As Bobby Rahal has shown lately, it's definitely a winning combination.
>>
>>I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
>>succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?
>>Lotus? Nahhhh ...
>Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
>is not on this list.

You mean Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction IN F1.
Chapman started off racing his own cars and continued through the
mid-50s.  The story that Graham Arnold of Club Lotus (and ex-sales
something for Lotus) tells is that Chapman was an excellent driver
except that he would sometimes start thinking about how the car was
working while driving in a race and losing concentration while racing
is not a good thing.

alan
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
From: loosli@bbs.mdcbbs.com
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:05:33 GMT
 <1992Aug18.031527.13944@bmerh85.bnr.ca> <183116@pyramid.pyramid.com>
Organization: TRW SAFETY SYSTEMS/MESA
Nntp-Posting-User: loosli

In article <183116@pyramid.pyramid.com>, danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
> Michael Hui writes:
> 
>>I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
>>succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?
> 
> Here's a list of drivers who raced chassis by the same name (except where
> noted).  I don't know what drivers might have owned teams that ran under a 
> different name.
> 
> 	Chris Amon		- One race, not successful.
> 	Jack Brabham		- WC in '66 in a Brabham chassis
> 	Emerson Fittipaldi	- Best race, 3rd (in a Fittipaldi) 2nd
> 				  (in a Copersucar), not very successful.
	Didn't Wilson Fittipaldi also co-own/driver with Emerson?

> 	Dan Gurney		- Best race, 1 win (in Eagle).
> 	Graham Hill		- Best race, 6th.
> 	Bruce McLaren		- Best race, 1 win, 3rd in WC in '69.
> 	Arturo Merzario		- Two seasons, not successful.
> 	Hector Rebaque		- One race (actually was a Lotus that
> 				  ran under his name)
	Hector also drive for about two years with purchased Lotus (77-79?)

> 	John Surtees		- Best race, 5th, not very successful.
> 
   Ben
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:06:14 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

From article <memo.578609@cix.compulink.co.uk>, by shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith):
> It occurs to me that the ideal car to win at Hungaroring would be a
> drag racer.
> 
> Lets face it - all you have to do is to be first off the line into
> the first corner, and outdrag everybody else down the start finish
> straight.

I get your point but a dragster would run out of fuel.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com






Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach)
Subject: Re: McLaren's newfound speed
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:11:01 GMT

From article <efn103fg65hA00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, by nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon):
> 

Stuff about why Nigel couldn't just waltz by Senna deleted...


> Both Williams started on the front row of the grid. They expected
> to be ahead at the start. So they probably set up their cars for fastest
> lap time rather than the best setup for passing down the straight.
> This plan worked for Patrese until his spin. Mansell got snookered
> in corner 1 and never had the legs down the front straight to get
> by Senna. Senna has been in the habit of blocking the field from
> third place lately (except for Silverstone where Brundle gave him
> a taste of his own medicine), and he set his car up to prevent
> anyone passing him down the front straight. One side effect was
> that both McLarens got an excellent run into the first corner.
> 
> Shouldn't it be possible to get a reading on how much wing everyone
> is running when they're on the grid? Just as critical as what tyre
> compound each car is using. Sounds like a good project for an
> enterprising pit lane reporter.
> 
For starters, the Williams has always excelled in medium- to high-speed
corners.  There aren't a preponderance of these at Hungaroring.  That 
explains in part why Nigel wasn't able to get under Senna's wing coming    
off the last corner.

Hmmm, a pit reporter who tells us who is running more wing, what tire 
compounds who is using, and all that lovely stuff?  Gee, that sounds 
just like John Bisignano to me...


Shane Roach
csroach@eng.clemson.edu
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: DRAG RACING
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 06:52:01 GMT

After watching this board for several weeks I have not seen anything on
the quarter mile straight track.  Is there anyone out there that runs on
these tracks or watches these races.

I had participated in this sport years back and am concidering re-entering
the sport.  I'm looking at lower class competition (stock/super-stock) and
was wondering what are competative times in these classes today? also I
hear that saftey regs have changed in the last 20 years and was wondering 
if I could get a quick update?

Remember CHEVEY'S will always RULE
Dennis

--

  
###############################################################################
### What were the Raven's last imortal words????????????????????????????????###
###############################################################################
   Please note that any comments are not my employeers or even mine at times.

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b617zbb@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Sennas $0.00 offer
NewsSoftware: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
    <zlsiida.119@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>
Organization: U.T. Arlington Math Dept.
NntpPostingHost: utarlg.uta.edu
MessageID: <17AUG199220425168@utarlg.uta.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:42:00 GMT
X-Bytes: 1345

In article <zlsiida.119@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes...
>In article <1992Aug17.113711.12722@phillip.edu.au> t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
> 
>>Can anyone confirm what James Hunt said at Hungary about Senna offering his
>>services to Williams next year for free.
> 
>>No salary seems an unbelievable statement for an driver the calibre of Senna.
>>But under consideration he wants another championship badly and the records
>>that may come with this(most wins in a season for example).
> 
>Could be a mistake......Williams didn't get the championship last year, no 
>particular reason they should next year.....one of the other teams is bound 
>to improve the car over the winter and we don't know how much more Williams 
>can get out of their equipment.....
> 

True, barring any other groundbreaking developments, next year should be a 
year when everyone starts to catch up to Williams. Let's face it, the Renault
V10 has got to be near the end of its development cycle and perhaps some of
those new(er) engines can make bigger gains. Of course, all Senna needs is
an equal car to the rest of the field and he will be world champion and 
Williams will be at least equal to the rest of the field. Somehow, I think
Senna wants to finish of the job he started on Prost by again defeating
him in equal cars.

George.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ajgam@sabrina.sabrina (Antonio Jorge Marques)
Subject: Re: senna
Organization: INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores
	<1992Aug17.103143.3191@bradford.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:51:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.103143.3191@bradford.ac.uk> D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker) writes:
Path: inesc.inesc.pt!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!D.S.Walker
   From: D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker)
   Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
   Date: 17 Aug 92 10:31:43 GMT
   References: <1992Aug17.035329.25173@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
   Organization: University of Bradford, UK
   Lines: 27
   Originator: 91909178@occam
   Nntp-Posting-Host: occam

   In article <1992Aug17.035329.25173@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> s1055814@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Richard Miller) writes:
   >>
   >>   If Senna is to go to Williams, as James Hunt says, Frank would be advised
   >>   to buy a quality driver rather than a quality winger!Mansell is pricing
   >>   himself out of the contest, obviously trying to match Senna's effort last
   >>   year with McLaren.
   >>   Mansell may be quick but only in a very good car! Senna has done much
   >>   better in an uncompetitive car. By the way I am no fan of Senna but I
   >>   am a fan of GOOD drivers.
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>   Flames are welcome......
   >>                                    rich
   >I disagree, I would say that Mansell was driving an uncompetitive car when
   >he was with Ferrari! He still managed to win some races. I think it was at
   >Hungary several years ago when he came from 12th place on the grid to win
   >the race in a Ferrari, overtaking Senna in his Mclaren.

   >I am a fan of Mansell, but also of many other drivers, except Senna...

 But Senna this year doens't have a competitive car but he still
manage to win some races too ...

 

--
*--------------------[ ajgam@sabrina.inesc.pt ]--------------------*
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|  |============================================================|  |
*--[ INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores ]--*
   |============================================================|
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Economaki on PITSTOP
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:14:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.220130.16871@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>problem has been when he tries to do play-by-play.  I think it takes a special
>skill to listen to a producer yammering in your earplug while trying to watch
>the race on a tiny monitor and talk intelligently about what's going on while
>you're seeing it.  Varsha's not too bad at it, but Chris and Paul Page don't
>posess the skill.
>
>Chris's print articles are very good.
>

My friends who do live PA at various tracks have told me the worst thing
for them to do is to use the TV monitor to call the race.  They do like
to have the timing/scoring monitor available, but there's a big
difference in calling a race for radio and for tv, obviously.  In
teaching me, they have warned not to become used to the TV as a crutch.

Perhaps Chris, and to a lesser extent Paul (much younger in age), has
had a hard time transitioning from radio to television.  I still don't
think this year's IndyCar radio broadcasts (produced by Page, btw) are
anywhere near the quality of MRN and NASCAR (unfortunately we don't get
those here anymore).  Maybe they (IndyCar network) should bring in Chris
to help out.

-cb-
From: hg798502@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Hugh Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Fuel questions in F1
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:48:17 GMT
Distribution: rec.autos.sport
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <bjilek.714350232@trojan> bjilek@convex.com (Brian Jilek) writes:
>After watching the fuel controversy at the Hungarian Grand Prix, does 
>anyone know the octane number that the FISA rules prescribe? 

One hundred and two.  I think that's what Mr Hobbs said but the VCR
has chewed my tape up :(  Something about all the fuel wars starting
when 102 octane became no longer available.  Then he suggested using AVGAS..

 
Re Hungaroring: Here's an armchair theory:
I noted Mr Mansell had a better go at Senna earlier in the race - on his first 
one or two attempts at outdragging the Maclaren - maybe Senna was saving
his tyres for that last pre-strait turn which would have helped him later
and maybe Nige's tyres were 
getting a little more early wear from his early, fuel heavy attempt at 
this last turn, and from a little extra sliding he seemed to be doing -
perhaps due to the lack of downforce from following a big wing around
the rest of the track.
You would think, though, that the big wing would help the drafting effect..
Blah blah blah.  IMHO Mansell has started more conservatively since he 
bust a couple of driveshafts at the start.  Now when was that?

Hugh Graham
--
--------------------------------------------/T\--------Wot?
Hugh says...Don't read this, read that.    /_I_\      :Only
|......CSU are responsible for neither.      I        :four
|hg798502@longs.lance.colostate.edu.us.      I        :lines?
From: bitbug@netcom.com (James Buster)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: McLaren technology
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:19:19 GMT
Organization: Lynx Real-Time Systems, Inc.

I noticed at Hungary that McLaren finally brought out their traction
control system. The last thing that they have left to show is active
suspension. We know they have been working on it, and I am sure that
I had heard an announcement earlier in the year regarding the use
of an actively suspended car. Unfortunately, it has not yet appeared.
Now that the driver's and manufacturer's championships are out of reach,
surely McLaren has nothing to lose testing an experimental car this year
for an appearance next year.
-- 
				James Buster
			     bitbug@netcom.com
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:22:51 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Dan Jones (danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com) wrote:
: 	Hector Rebaque		- One race (actually was a Lotus that
: 				  ran under his name)
	Rebaque started off with a Lotus but had the Rebaque HR100 built for
	him by Penske. It was basically a Lotus copy.
: Dan Jones

--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: nxn@uts.amdahl.com (David J. Nixon)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: McLaren's newfound speed
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:16:56 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.005537.2227@morrow.stanford.edu> jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>>that Senna's car setup was the best for getting a lot of speed out of the
>>only corner that really mattered.

>There's something illogical here. If the FW14 chassis is so good, then
>it should generate better cornering force than the whole field given the
>same rear wing setting. So I then extrapolate that the FW14's wing setting
>should be less than everyone else's and still be equal to them all in
>the small radius twisties. So I then further extrapolate that even if
>the Renault engine is equal in power to the Honda, at the end of the
>straight Team Willy's pride and joy (what joy? he never smiles) should
>definitely be ahead of Team McLaren's pride and joy.

>Since none of the above happened, I can only conclude that the FW14
>was running far too much wing to be optimal for the course.

Both Williams started on the front row of the grid. They expected
to be ahead at the start. So they probably set up their cars for fastest
lap time rather than the best setup for passing down the straight.
This plan worked for Patrese until his spin. Mansell got snookered
in corner 1 and never had the legs down the front straight to get
by Senna. Senna has been in the habit of blocking the field from
third place lately (except for Silverstone where Brundle gave him
a taste of his own medicine), and he set his car up to prevent
anyone passing him down the front straight. One side effect was
that both McLarens got an excellent run into the first corner.

Shouldn't it be possible to get a reading on how much wing everyone
is running when they're on the grid? Just as critical as what tyre
compound each car is using. Sounds like a good project for an
enterprising pit lane reporter.

Dave Nixon
nxn@uts.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Winning F1 at Hungary
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 16:43:57 +0000

It occurs to me that the ideal car to win at Hungaroring would be a
drag racer.

Lets face it - all you have to do is to be first off the line into
the first corner, and outdrag everybody else down the start finish
straight.


Do that 70 odd times and Robert's a relative, as they say :-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92))
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:01:37 GMT

>
Quoting Michael Hui:
>
>I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
>succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?

How about Dan Gurney?  1967 F1 Season.  
Chassis:  Gurney Eagle
Engine:   Gurney Weslake
Driver:   Gurney, Dan
Best Finish: French GP, First Place

He didn't win the championship, but this was probably a mildly successful
result. The team has gone on to other successes, too. Finally, I haven't
even heard rumors that Gurney a Jerk, unlike F. Williams or R. Dennis.

Another Driver-owned team also comes to mind. More than mildly successful,
Enzo Ferrari. 100 GP wins. 500 GP starts. Also makes interesting street
cars. Also the ONLY competitor to build both chassis and engine. Now, what
does it really mean to be a "constructor"??

Forza!
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Motorsport on TV
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:03:46 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hey Andrew,

If you want to watch "loads" of motorsport then get a satellite system.
Its 12.02am at the moment and i am taping F1 from Hungary.


I can watch motorsport every night if i want.

Al

   GO BUY A SATELLITE EVERYBODY.