HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Land Units (complexity)
Date: 5 Sep 1992 06:46:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: whistle.berkeley.edu

It isn't the idea of land units that is the problem, it's having
too many different types (which is a problem with ships and
planes currently). You have to get someone who is mentally
into pruning out the unnecessary unit types running some games.

(It wasn't my idea to add a bunch of new type ships and planes,
by the way. My ideas were more along the line of altering their firing
ranges and tech levels, rather than adding more types.)

Kinda like how urogue was spoiled (increasing the complexity
of the game without doing some serious thinking about how
the game would be changed. Just throwing in everything they
could think of, including the kitchen sink.)

Inexperienced players just get some idea and think "hey, this
would be great" and want to add it, without thinking how it
would affect the game.

Anyway, as I said, there is a lot of garbage in there now, planewise
and shipwise, that needs pruning. All along I've argued that
simplicity was the most important thing in empire, but hardly
anyone ever listens to me. Ask Brett if you don't believe me.

By the way, if you had customized units, you could get by with
less than a dozen types of each unit, I'd guess, and let
the customization equations (including tech level) and some
flags (like "jet", "prop") take care of the rest.

-- 
"The Roman army was exterminated almost to a man by Arminius's Germans, the very
enemy Rome had always slaughtered like cattle. The captured were buried alive, 
crucified, or offered up as sacrifices to the Gods. Years later Germanicus found
there whitening bones, limbs of horses, and human skulls fixed upon the trees."
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
From: sldf3@io.ee.usu.edu (Weston R Beal)
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:06:52 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State Univ. EE


|> I had an idea of a version of empire for those of us who had absolutely
|> no time for empire.
|> This is a rough idea ... so bear with me.
|> a)  Only people with absolutely no time would be allowed to play.
|> b)  Those that played would only be playing for fun.  There would be
|> no 'winner' ... (see below)
|> c)  Each of the players would begin with a start island.  These islands
|> would be sacred ... they would never be attacked by another player.
|> Period.  For reasons, read below.
|> d)  There would be one or two updates a week.  Or even one a day, it
|> wouldn't matter.
|> e)  The world would be very large.  The resource level would be high.
|> There would be lots of free land.
|> f)  Now i bet you are wondering what the point of this game would be ...
|> g)  When us 'no time for empire' people had a little time, say a few
|> hours here, a weekend there, we would do a little playing.  We would
|> colonize new islands.  We would set up defenses ... hoping that they
|> would last two weeks until our next playing time.  We would try to attack
|> colonies of other players.  Our time would run out, and we'd go back to
|> our lives.
|> 
|> Anyway, this is my idea.  Anyone have any comments, i'd be glad to hear
|> them.  RGE sure has been busy lately, and i like it.  Still my slowest

If you start this game, I'm in!

-- 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%%          							    %%
%%  Weston Beal			:  I have a piece of hard rock      %%
%%  sldf3@sol.ee.usu.edu	:  candy, but it's not for eating.  %%
%%  sldf3@cc.usu.edu		:  It's for looking through.        %%
%%                                                                  %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Land Units (complexity)
Date: 5 Sep 92 16:43:02 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <189l4bINNd9q@agate.berkeley.edu> tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
>It isn't the idea of land units that is the problem, it's having
>too many different types (which is a problem with ships and
>planes currently). You have to get someone who is mentally
>into pruning out the unnecessary unit types running some games.

	Why? I have gotten this from a couple of people, and I just don't
understand it.. Is it just that you don't want to take a bit of time at
the beginning of the game to check out the lists, and would prefer the same
old ones? I just don't get where the complexity is in this. (Not trying to 
pick on you, you understand.. maybe I'm just missing something) It seems to
me that if you're going to play a game for a couple of MONTHS (maybe 60-120
hours of playing time, depending) That spending some time, maybe 10-30
minutes checking out the units available isn't too unreasonable.

	I CERTAINLY think, though, that it gives an advantage to experienced 
players not to change the lists, and maybe that's what you're referring to :-)
I think most new players can see that a fighter 2 is better than an fighter 1,
but new players may not understand why another person's fighter 1 is so much
better than his.  (In fact, I know they don't, as I have gotten a goodly number
of telegrams from new players who thought it was a bug :-)

>Kinda like how urogue was spoiled (increasing the complexity
>of the game without doing some serious thinking about how
>the game would be changed. Just throwing in everything they
>could think of, including the kitchen sink.)
>
>Inexperienced players just get some idea and think "hey, this
>would be great" and want to add it, without thinking how it
>would affect the game.

	Gee. Nice to be characterize as a inexperienced unthinking idiot :-)

>Anyway, as I said, there is a lot of garbage in there now, planewise
>and shipwise, that needs pruning. All along I've argued that
>simplicity was the most important thing in empire, but hardly
>anyone ever listens to me. Ask Brett if you don't believe me.
>
>By the way, if you had customized units, you could get by with
>less than a dozen types of each unit, I'd guess, and let
>the customization equations (including tech level) and some
>flags (like "jet", "prop") take care of the rest.

	Possibly. It does seem like a wonderful way to confuse new players, tho.
Picking from a list of possible planes is one thing. Deciding what to build if
you haven't played much would be quite another, I'd think.

Tom
From: ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Who Rules the World? ( OUR WIVES???!!!)
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:36:32 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Sep11.145318.9577@athena.mit.edu> tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes:
>
>This unlimited time factor only applies after you reach a certain level
>of skill.  A beginner isn't going to run over a 'name player', no matter
>how much time he spends on the game.  Beginners don't know how to adequately
>defend their countries (if the DO know all this stuff, they aren't 
>beginners) and will often log in one day only to find that they've been
>all but totally over-run.  I bet just about any name player would beat
>just about any beginner if you restricted the name player's login time to,
>say, 60 mins, and the beginner had unlimited time (most of the time the
>name player would only need about 15 mins to do his stuff, though).


	You need to give some credit to people besides yourself. I've seen
plenty of people start a game as beginners and end as competent players, 
especially if they have good people giving them advice (witness DR_BOB &
Guzzer) I'm quite sure that if a person with that kinda potential played
20 hours a day versus a veteran playing an hour a day, they'd win, learning
as they went along... Empire has its quirks, but if you were spending the
time, you'd learn them pretty quick..

Tom
From: al162929@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Luis Manuel Milan Leal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Need help with GS Empire
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:04:34 GMT

I wrote:
>I've just ftp'ed the GS Empire game, but I have a problem with it. There seems
>to be something wrong with the clear screen, because It doesnt clears. It
>just sends out some weird codes ^[f{^[ or something like that and it keeps on
>writing. I cant see what Im writing, and it looks horrible. I checked the ZIP
>file, zipped and unzipped it, both with Unix and PC's Pkzips. I FTP'ed it
>three times, from my account and from a PC. It still wont work. I use the
>BINARy setting...so why cant the game work as it should?
>Anyone has/has the same problem? Or knows what am I doing wrong?

Well, I checked out the docs, and in one of them found out that I needed to
install the ANSI.SYS . I checked out the config.sys and, yep, it wanst
installed. Now I can play GS Empire, and I loved it. I havent grown for more
than 50 sectors, have only 6 planes and 1 Destroyer, but still its fun.

Thanks to anyone who posted/mailed me about my problem. Unfortunately, the
net connection went down for the weekend, so I dont know if anyone responded.


BTW, I've just compiled the client for the Internet Empire, and now I need a
test game or something to, um, test the client and get some info about the
game. i've seen the Users.Guide and the FAQ, but one thing is to read about
war and another is to receive a nuclear warhead in the game :)

Anyone knows any test game or something like that? Please e-mail me if you
can.


                                                  V'uarnet

                  _______________________________            ____
                  \_________NCC-1701-A_______|_// __=*=__.--"----"--.________ 
______________________________        \  |       /     --.__________--------'  
Luis Manuel Milan Leal        |  /=====\ |======/      '    "----"  
al162929@academ01.mty.itesm.mx|   \_________    ==    }]  
Monterrey, Mexico             |             `-------'    
------------------------------
From: dsm@prism.gatech.EDU (Danny McGurl)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: top 10 list, well rather top 3 list...(Was: Re: :tcejbuSeltiT)
Date: 12 Sep 92 06:00:36 GMT
Organization: Revelstone High Command

In article <BuFs3J.6M8@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:

>tied for first:
>   Afrika Korps >   Atlantis >   Barbary Coast >   Dorsai >   EVIL_EMPIRE >   Fodderland >   Graahoeje >   Guzzer >   Himmel >   Lersing >   Mirkwood >   Redline >   Resvon >   Revelstone >   Vulgaria

This list leaves out Pern, JustUs and Dreamlands...

>perpetual fodders: >   Soxland >   Orleanais >   Baldric >   Stuart_Hall

This leaves outs the greatest Fodder of all:

U.S. of Madison.

I've dated myself now.. The washington 1989 game... What a game that was...
Atlantis and the great gold scam.  The Gnur/Revelstone war.  The 
kaerconan suicide pilots.  The Zenith/Kaerconan/Gnur alliance and the
Ultima/Fodderland and someone else alliance against them... Later we
watched the world turn to glass as AK and Dorsai nuked it out.

Remember to guard your sheep!!!!!! :)

When I was making top ten lists, I listed about 15 players.  
My idea of a top player is someone that can win/finish games in a very
good position pretty consistantly.
-- 
Danny McGurl                        "No, no Pixel!  Beer is not for baby cats."
Office of Information Technology        --Richard Ames,
dsm@prism.gatech.edu 		        __The Cat Who Walks Through Walls__
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:04:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.104344.11823@daimi.aau.dk>, ctjmrr@daimi.aau.dk (Claus Torp Jensen) writes:

|> For another: There are far more US-players than non-US players, so saying
|> something like 80% of the best players are US doesn't exactly impress me.....
|> maybe 80% of ALL Empire players are US-players......

That doesn't change my point, though.  Whether we're talking about the
majority of the best players or the majority of all players, 'the needs of
the many outweigh the needs of the few' (to steal a quote).

|> Now down to business:
|> 
|> I hereby officially challenge REdline to prove his claim (this is the part
|> that my wife and child won't like......:( ):

If players accepted the challenges of every little FODDER that came along,
they'd never have any time to play in the regular games.  The good players
usually have nothing to gain by accepting these challenges either.  There's
a big investment of time and when they win, nobody cares if they beat some
FODDER head-to-head.  Often the game is never completed because one of the
sides bails out due to lack of time, etc, etc....

|> BUT the conditions of the game need to be such, that I have a chance to
|> perform as best I can.
|> Which means:
|> 
|> ROTATING UPDATES (yes, I know Redlien thinks those sthink...but if he wants
|> to claim he is better than someone we need equal terms).
|> AT LEAST 6 DAYS BETWEEN UPDATES (I simply can't manage anymore....
|> I PROMISED my wife this would be the last Empire game for some time).
|> 
|> And I need to wait some time before this challenge game can start......
|> I am currently playing the ALberta Invitational.....I need that to
|> finish first, and I need my wife to calm down after that one....:)
|> 
|> 
|> Now some additional comments:
|> 1) A one-one challenge will NEVER prove who is the better player in an
|>    ordinary game, but just maybe it will settle this criticism of NON-US
|>    players.

Nice of you to add this all too common disclaimer: "Even if you do win, 
you're STILL not better than me!"

No one was really cricizing non-US players, anyway.  It's just a common
opinion that it's fair to more people if update schedules are catered to
US players rather than to the minority of non-US players.

|> Claus/The King of Graahoeje
|> (maybe not the best of Empire players but at least I have my pride)


-----
T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
(a.k.a. Ultima)
-----
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Subject: Re: Top Players
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:29:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.173913.14805@mixcom.com> Thomas.Retkowski <Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com> writes:
>There are always good players...luck of the draw as far as territory always
>helps, but here are some names for thought.
>
>Narnia
>
>Any others?  
>-- 

Narnia?  Forgive me while i laugh REAL HARD.

Jason
From: fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Rock *MY* World)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Markets
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:19:00 GMT
Organization: P.A.R.A.N.O.I.A
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC

In article <1992Sep8.183720.27094@athena.mit.edu>, tafrakes@athena.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes) writes...
>In article <4SEP199221375892@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Wow .. What Drugs?) writes:
>|>         Ok, I've been reading the discussions on the 'market systems'
>|>         I don't like the idea of a delay in buying a commodity.
>|> 
>|>         But here's a better solution to this, instead of a delay in
>|>         buying a commodity, make the delay in selling the commodity,
>|>         this way, when an enemy attacks you bank he can't sell off
>|>         all the gold bars that are in it without incuring this delay and
>|>         allowing you to attack back.  Now if the enemy still happens
>|>         to own the sector after the 12 hr delay, then he/she's free
>|>         to sell all the gold/bars in it.  At which time once the commodities
>|>         are on the market, they could THEN be bought without incuring any
>|>         delay at all, because of the delay in selling.
>|> 
>|> Stuart_Hall
>|> aka Corwin
> 
> 
>This sounds like a good concept that makes sense.  I guess we could
>implement some restriction such as aborting the sale if the goods are
>moved or lost before the time is up (this is a perhaps quick and dirty
>way of solving the problem of mysteriously vanishing goods -- i.e. put
>some food for sale from the dist point and later you move some food
>around:  where does the food get sold from?)
> 
>Suppose you  want to put 50 bars on the market for quick cash and you
>have a bank with 500.  Should the bars disappear immediately?  

        No, the commodities should not disappear.  They should stay there
        until the time delay is done, they they would disappear and be moved
        to the market.

>                                                             If not,
>suppose you move, say, 300 bars from the bank before the time expires.
>Where do the bars come from? (new or old sector?)  Suppose you move only
>25 bars from the bank?  Should the code just abort everthing if you try
>to move any amount of that commodity from the sector?
> 
>-Andy
> 
>-----
>T. Andy Frakes (tafrakes@athena.mit.edu)
>-----

        if the commodity is not in the sector when the delay is finished
        the whole trans action is aborted.  This way you can make sure
        you want to sell said commodity, before it's actually sold.
        hell, I'm tired, don't ask me, I'm just throwing out an idea
        that I think would be a reasonable solution to the market system.

Stuart_Hall
aka Corwin
#include BITNET <FSJJP@ALASKA.BITNET>
#include EMAIL <FSJJP@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU>
From: al162929@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Luis Manuel Milan Leal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Need help with GS Empire
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:01:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: academ01.al162929.715647671



I've just ftp'ed the GS Empire game, but I have a problem with it. There seems
to be something wrong with the clear screen, because It doesnt clears. It
just sends out some weird codes ^[f{^[ or something like that and it keeps on
writing. I cant see what Im writing, and it looks horrible. I checked the ZIP
file, zipped and unzipped it, both with Unix and PC's Pkzips. I FTP'ed it
three times, from my account and from a PC. It still wont work. I use the
BINARy setting...so why cant the game work as it should?


Anyone has/has the same problem? Or knows what am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

                                                            V'uarnet


*******************************************************************************
Luis Manuel Milan Leal           * 'The child is grown, the dream is gone...'
al162929@academ01.mty.itesm.mx   *  Comfortably numb, from 'The Wall'
Itesm, Monterrey, Mexico         * 'Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we
Interests: Anime, Muds, Ad&d,    *     were all equal in the end' 
  Tiny Toons, Role Playing Games * Two suns in the sunset, 'Final Cut'
  Pink Floyd, Computers          *   -- Both records from Pink Floyd --
*******************************************************************************
From: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: markets shcmarkets...
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:59:05 GMT
Reply-To: evil@bbn.com (Dave Nye)
Organization: War Lord and Imperial Emperor of THE Evil Empire
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

In article <1992Sep8.192857.816@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu>, jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:
|> I think any sort of magic market where you don't actually transport
|> the goods via planes or ships should never be used.  There will always
|> be plenty of abuse of this teleportation of goods.
|> 
|> Allies should always be able to trade commodities, planes, ships.
|> They just have to do the transporting of said good to the destination,
|> or picking them up.  ALLYHARBOR is a good start, but ships should
|> be able to be boarded from units in the harbor sector, whether friendly
|> or otherwise.  Meanwhile, there should be a ALLYAIRBASE rule, such that
|> planes can land in an ally's air base, the owner ship would change
|> to the owner of the air base then (mobility should not change).
|> The new owner can then fly them back, or use them himself.
|> 
|> $0.02
|> jim

I agree with this completely.  Gawd knows I could have used this neat little
MOD in the last day or so when my ally didn't have any Transports to drop 
stuff in via the other awsome mod  DROPANY... }:)

-=TheEvilOne

ps, that was just my .17

-- 
===============================================================================
===   =========   =======================              David Lee Nye          =
===   =========   =======================       BBN-DSS Systems Administrator =
===         ===         ===         =====       evil@bbn.com, dnye@bbn.com    =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====            evil@gnu.ai.mit.edu      =
===   ===   ===   ===   ===   ===   =====       BBN, Inc., Cambridge, MA      =
===         ===         ===   ===   =Inc=  My employers computer, MY opinion. =
===============================================================================
From: fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Euro^3 and NON-US Empire Greats?
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:14:50 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep10.120713.11853@athena.mit.edu>, agathon@athena.mit.edu (Garry Moorer) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.115109.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
> |>         Anyone notice the result of these "Bad time Updates" in Euro III?
> |> 
> |>         Looks to me as only those who could make every update are still
> |> playing.
> |> 
> |> /* Lotz of disorganized thoughts  |   Shoot me Later */
> |> /* runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu                      */
> |> /* fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu                            */
> 
> But maybe the purpose of the 7am update was to cut down on those "update attacks"
> that a lot of you seem to hate so much.   The reason I don't like the 7am update
> is that 7am was always the ideal "mop-up and drop" time.
> 

        7am?   7am...?   Sheesh .. its 3am here.  And I dare say, if I'd
been near you.  You wouldn't still be there.

                         << Evil Grin >>


/*   runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu  ||  fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu   */
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: lmlc@brahms.udel.edu (Carolyn M Chandler)
Subject: V or Ve
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 13:31:01 GMT

where can i find V or Ve the out-of-empire empire editor?
-morgan
From: fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Top Players
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:29:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Sep10.173913.14805@mixcom.com>, Thomas.Retkowski@mixcom.mixcom.com (Thomas.Retkowski) writes:
> There are always good players...luck of the draw as far as territory always
> helps, but here are some names for thought.
> 
> Afrika Korps
> Vulgaria
> Narnia
> Council
> 
> Any others?  
> 

        Yeh.   
Revelstone
Guzzer
Voor
Farside
The_Scum
beep

.. just to name a few ..

/*  runion@dec1.uafcs.alaska.edu  ||  fsmar@acad3.alaska.edu  */