From: gpmenos@firestone.Princeton.EDU (Gerard Philippe Menos)
Subject: Re: Question of Nativity
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: gpmenos@firestone.Princeton.EDU (Gerard Philippe Menos)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:07:46 GMT

In article <1308200101@igc.apc.org> Ecology Center  
<ecologycntr@igc.apc.org> writes:
> 
> Phil;
> 

I think I'm the "Phil" you're addressing, from your content below.

> If the white occupation of the western hemisphere were to begin  
tomorrow,
> you could still say that the native cultures which existed here in  
1492
> were no longer here. Why do you expect native culture would have  
been
> stagnant for so long? 

I'm not sure what point you are making here.  What you are asking me?  

Perhaps you are asking me:  Why do I "expect native culture" to be  
stagnant?  Is that the question?  Well, I don't.  Nor is it my place  
to define what native culture ought to be or not be, apart from  
whatever contribution I can make.

> 
> Cultures evolve. Native Cultures are what Native People determine  
them to
> be, and if they choose to adopt tools from other cultures, it's  
their right.

I totally agree.

> Do you write on paper, eat pasta, use gunpowder? Well, by your  
logic, you've
> assimilated into Chinese culture. 

Not at all.  [I feel that you are trivializing a bit here --though I  
probably did to.]  By my logic, we've enriched each other (assuming  
the gunpowder is used for self-defense, blah blah blah).

However, if I speak Chinese half of each day and I see the world in  
terms of Chinese history and through the prism of Chinese  
philosophical and linguistic concepts (even if I personally reject  
these), then I have been assimilated into Chinese culture --to some  
extent.  But Chinese culture would also have changed a bit, if there  
were a couple thousand of "me" undergoing a similar experience.

>How can you talk about the existence
> of a European American culture when you sleep in a hammock, use  
tobacco,
> listen to the blues, or eat ginger?

If you are asking me:  I do not speak of a European American culture.   
Perhaps I might better understand your reference to "European American  
culture" if you had quoted me;  but I don't think you'll find such a  
restrictive view of our society in my text.

Personally, I belong to a multi-ethnic culture that is increasingly  
shared around the globe, though each local region has its own spices  
in this mix.

> 
> The point is not whether Peshe wears nikes. I've never met a native  
person
> who didn't appreciate the ability to drive a truck. Cultural  
exchange,
> if it happens on an equitable basis, is a good thing. But somehow  
the

I totally agree.  I was suggesting that Peshe (if that is an  
acceptable diminutive) might be underestimating the extent to which he  
(and I) are part of a Grand Cultural Exchange --though too much of  
this exchange has occured and continues to occur in an unequitable  
manner, where each person's heritage is not sufficiently respected. 

> (ongoing) genocide against natives always gets left out of the  
discussion,
> or framed like "of course, our grandparents were bad to y'all". 

I would not want to leave this out of any discussion, whether in  
speaking about the experience of Native peoples, or of Armenians, or  
of Jewish people, or of the French people (Gnostics) slaughtered in  
the first Christian Crusades in a Genocide that occured in Europe  
several centuries before Columbus arrived on this continent, etc.  So,  
don't suggest that I would, or I'll get pissed off and start using  
expletives that I usually delete from my mind before they hit the  
screen.  uh oh, too late:  listen, pal, friend, don't fucking put  
words in my mouth that are not there.  :-)

>Let's
> talk about Peltier, Hatcher, the Dann Sisters...lets talk about  
termination,
> about relocation, but let's not sully ourselves with determining  
who's
> acculturated and to what degree.
> 
> chris
> 

Chrs, I don't think we have much to disagree about, really.  And, my  
point about the extent of Peshe's assimilation was (or should have  
been) a minor issue in a broader discussion.

Peshe had said something about not wanting to be assimilated into  
"American" culture;  I pointed out that it might be too late.  You, I  
think, have supported my suggestion through your keen observations  
about the cultural exchanges we see going on around us.

If we have misunderstood each other in any way, it must be my fault.

With all good wishes,
Phil

P.S.  Please excuse the expletive above --or take it with the humour  
that is intended!
-- 
-------------------------------------------
G. Philippe Menos    
Systems Administrator
Princeton University Libraries