HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bibr0027@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Are Lebanese considered ARABS?????
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:07:37 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I was wondering....do most Arabs consider the Lebanese as Arabs?

Is it a given that Arabs must be Muslim? (the majority are).
If Lebanese are arabs, why do most Christian Lebanese consider 
themselves as not being ARAB?

I am a Lebanese, who has fought on both sides of the matter.  I use
to think that Lebanese were Arabs.  Not anymore.  Perhaps politically
only....  What have the Arabs done for us, except force Palestians
unto our land, with their guns and all.  Why do most Lebanese
fear these "Phadaeey"?  Palestians are arabs aren't they?  Who gives
them the bloody rite to come onto our lands, take what they want,
kill you they desire, just because Israel has replaced what
was known as Palestine.  The Lebanese government can only help
to a degree.  Why do the arabs in their Arabic League decide
on the fate of Lebanon with others like Syria. 

All these questions keep floating in my head.  Would someone
please help answer these questions.  I have nothing against
the Palestians or their cause, or any other Arab party.
A while ago, when I heard the rumor that Lebanon was to be no more,
and Palestine was to be in it's place, I was going to...3@#$@$#@$

You give em an inch they want it all.....



Anyway....would someone please enlighten the situation for me and others..



John LAWEN                 

No offence to anyone.....

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Killing settlers
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:46:45 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>And not *nearly* as ruthless and effective as the IDF are at
>murdering, torturing, and controlling innocent Palestinians
>in the Occupied Territories, Alan.

Excellent, Anisa.  You have learned the big lie technique beautifully.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6236 talk.politics.mideast:24708
From: abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Summary: the arguments of dictatorships.
Date: 5 Jan 93 07:41:25 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1993Jan5.033013.3849@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
>	Wrong.  It sends the message that it will use stronger methods to
>protect Israeli lives.  Unfortunately, since so few were deported, it
>also sends the message that it is somewhat tentative in taking bold
>but necessary actions.
>
>

and writes:

>	Call it what you want, but the first priority of any government is
>to protect the state.  COnsiderations of an enemies possible rights to
>due process can only come afterwards.
>

I would like to point out that this is the *standard* way dictatorships
justify their actions: They call their opposition 'enemies of the state'
and then spew those last three lines you have up there, and everything
is fine from then on.  The end justifies the means.  If these are the
standards you want to hold Israel up to, I guess that's fine by me.

Tamer Abdelgawad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:30:17 GMT

In article <1ide8iINNchv@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:

# In article 13475, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) says:
 
# >Okay, it sounds like you are agreeing that what has long been
# >called an Uprising or the "Intifada" is actually a bloody civil
# >war with the aim of overthrowing the government and replacing it
# >with an Arab and probably an Islamic government.
 
# Oh no, Jake, that's not what I'm saying at all; I see no civil
# war.
 
	Than perhaps you need some clear glasses.  They have killed more
of each other than the Israelis have for one thing.

# Here, let me make myself clear: What I see are Palestinians
# resisting persecution and oppression by a military power that has
# occupied their territory.  That's not a civil war.  That's self-
# defense.
 
	What you see is not at all what is happening.  For one thing, that
"military power that has occupied their territory" was forced there
as a result of a war the Arabs started against Israel and they cannot
leave until Israel's security is iron clad.  The more violence
committed by the "palestinians?", the less Israel will feel safe
enough to withdraw.

# Sorry for the confusion.

	You still seem to be confused.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:45:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.232121.18659@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>It isn't a question of being "cheap". I don't want to contribute any
>money at all to the Israeli war machine, because I don't want to
>assist in the oppression of the Palestinians. How much my share comes
>to is beside the point.

I hope that you've turned off your heater this winter and gotten rid
of your car. Arabs have done much, much more to oppress Palestinean
Arabs than Israelis have ever dreamed of doing.  

Are you upset about 400 Islamic Fundamentalists expelled from Israel?
Were you upset at the over 500,000 Palestinean men, women and children
who were expelled by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states during
Desert Shield/Storm?  They hadn't killed any of the locals, as they
still do in Israel.  Did you petition the US government and the UN to
put sanctions on those Arab states or did you instead support sending
half a million US troops to bolster the defenses of these desert
fiefdoms? 

Are you upset at the several hundred Palestineans killed by Israeli
soldiers in the last few years during the Palestinean revolt against
the government?  Are you also upset at the equal number of
Palestineans killed by other Palestinean Arabs in the same time?  Were
you upset at the nearly 10,000 Palestinean Arabs killed in a single
month (!) by Jordanian soldiers druing Black September, when
Palestineans there revolted against the government?

You don't care about Palestineans.  You just hate Jews.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6242 talk.politics.mideast:24735
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:38:20 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <EGGERTJ.93Jan4111603@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
> ..  modern societies recognize fundamental human and civil rights,
> which should be extended to Arab and Jew alike.  Your pretense to
> the opposite only  comes across as brutish racism.
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

Well Jim , so lets fight together the PLO the Hamass and all other
Arabian terror organization their only aim is to anihilate the Jewish
existance in the Land of Israel,  Let fight for the right of the
disable Klinghofer who was thrown to the sea ,to lieve even so he is a
Jew.

We shell overcome    Gideon Ehrlich
From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: A question concerning the word Zakat.
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:33:58 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

Assalamu Aliekum....

I got a question from a friend concerning the Arabic term Zakat
wich I because of lack of knowledge couldn't answer (my Arabic
isn't what it should be, ask me about Swedish or Albanian and I
may be able to answer it..:-)...).

I'd really appreciate if anyone of you Arabic speaking Br. or 
Sist. could answer this......

Here it goes:
****************************************************************
  I am curious about a point of etymology.  The Arabic term for
  contributions to the poor ('charity' is a European term which
  has too many inappropriate connotations and lacks the sense
  of obligation) is 'zakah', and the direct Hebrew equivalent
  is 'tzadekah', from the root 'tzedek' = 'justice'.  Does the
  Arabic term have a separate etymology, a parallel etymology,
  or is it unrelated to other Arabic words?  One conjectural
  possibility is that Arabic lacked an appropriate term in
  Mohammed's time, so the term was coined for the purpose.
****************************************************************

Thanks in advance....

Wassalam (a Br. who hasn't learnt Arabic yet....)
Gani Skepi
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se

********************************************************************
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(SAHIH MUSLIMIN)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: 
He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it
with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do 
it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength 
enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, 
and that is the least of faith."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
From: carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:07:12 GMT

hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>My facts are only wrong in that the $2 billion does not cover the many
>examples of grants and arms deals above and beyond the traditional $2
>billion. BTW, where did I say "gives"? Please note that for the US
>taxpayer, Israeli aid represents a transfer of money to Israel so that
>some of it can come back to buy US military materiel. Arms sales, on the
>other hand, represent net profits for US manufacturers.

Israeli aid does not represent a transfer of money to Israel, if
Israel gives the U.S. more in return!

	"Joseph Churba, a former top Air Force intelligence official
	and head of the Washington-based Center for International
	Security, estimated that it would cost the United States $100
	billion or more in additional spending -- and the deployment
	of more than 200,000 of its own troops -- to replace Israel's
	pro-U.S. strategic weight in the Middle East."
		--Myths and Facts,
		 A concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict,
		 1989


carasso.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:37:25 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.93Jan6231027@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.215623.11520@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>   At the time the Jews set up the State of Israel in their homeland,
>>   shortly after WW II, the Jews had even less political and financial
>>   clout than the Kurds do today.

>This is ludicrous.  The Kurds today do not have a sizeable population
>of relatively well off Americans, but the Jews certainly did in 1948.

If American Jews had any power to influence anyone at the time, don't
you think that they might have prevailed on the Allies to send a few
of the thousands of airstrikes over Europe to knock out the Nazi Death
Camps?  Maybe even ONE such airstrike?  American Jews at the time were
kept out of Universities and professions by quotas on Jews; they
cowered quietly, attracting as little attention to their Jewishness as
possible.  In short, the Jews in the mid-1940's had no real influence
on anything at all.

>The Arabs do not outnumber the Israelis by an order of magnitude
>militarily in any respect that is important, 

I don't have any figures here with me but Israel is outnumbered by at
least an order of magnitude c.f. the Arabs in:
 - numbers of full-time soldiers
 - numbers of tanks
 - numbers of military aircraft
and probably in 
 - defense budgets.

In fact, the Iraqi raid on Kuwait was scandalous in part because the
Kuwaitis had been spending incredible amounts on defense, I think it
averaged out to $ 50,000 - 60,000 PER SOLDIER per annum.  

>else they couldn't have
>lost any of the wars.  

To their eternal embarassment.

>Some of the Arabs are indeed very much richer
>than the Israelis, but some aren't.  Look at the Palestinian Arabs,
>for example.  I don't think you can accuse them on the whole of being
>too rich.

Actually, the Palestineans constitute a significant part of the
academic and professional ranks among Arabs.  If you look at
Palestinean Arabs in Israel, you will find many marble villas,
Mercedeses and all the home electronic gadgetry Santa could find, even
if CNN doesn't usually show this on TV.  Palestineans in Israel run
large companies and can and do make large personal profits.  

That so many Arabs in the Middle East live in such misery while so
many others live in hard-to-imagine wealth speaks volumes about some
of the REAL problems in the Middle East.  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: das@emmapeel.ca.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Subject: Belly dancers and Arabic cultures
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:41:48 GMT

I recently started taking belly dancing classes to get back into shape
after an illness, and have become very curious about how belly dancers
are viewed in various Arabic societies.  Are they respected, or regarded
as equivalent to strippers/prostitutes?  Is this an activity that respectable
women would engage in (I'm not necessarily talking about dancing for men, just
the art itself)?  I've also heard various different theories about how it
originated (ranging from a preparation for childbirth to a way prostitutes
enticed their clients).  Does anyone have any pointers towards books
(available in the United States) on the subject?

Thanks,
------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:56:23 GMT

In article <93005.161146RHOMSIE@auvm.american.edu> Rita Homsieh <RHOMSIE@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>You have to recognize that not all AArabs like the Israeli government

Understatement!  Of the two dozen odd Arab governments, only one has
ever been persuaded just to RECOGNIZE THE EXISTENCE of Israel, and
even that came with mucho money from Uncle Sam.

>I advise you to clean yourselves from the blind hatred and wake up to live in
>a world society, and take the responsibility to make it better. 

Excellent advice!  Let us start here by opening up to new ideas and
communications with "the world society".  Perhaps we can set up
Internet connections to countries in the Middle East that are
receptive to such modern social concepts.  Let's see now, which
countries in the region might join in such an effort?  Is there
anyone in the Middle East who can already read this?

>The Arabs now are paying for a fault commited by the European states centuries
>ago.

I know that blaming problems on others is an old Arab tradition but
what is it that the Europeans did to you centuries ago?

>I advise you to read your history books with an open mind (which will be
>very hard for people like you) and try to learn that Arab and Jews were both
>given the same promises by the West.  

In several instances, this is very true.

>However, the Jews financial power in the
>West got the upper hand.  

This, however, is not true at all.  

At the time the Jews set up the State of Israel in their homeland,
shortly after WW II, the Jews had even less political and financial
clout than the Kurds do today.  They had capped a centuries-long
tradition of being oppressed scapegoats with the monumental slaughter
of the Nazi Holocaust.  Financial power was certainly not a Jewish
thing in those days.  

As for more recent times, you seem to have overlooked the remarkable
financial power of petroleum.  To give you some idea of it's power, a
guy called Saddam not long ago threatened to grab control of about
half the world's petroleum supplies.  The world got together in
remarkable unity to ensure that this would not happen.  None of this
oil money is in Jewish hands, though sworn enemies of the the Jews
have been spending their oil wealth on perhaps the most astonishing
arms race besides the Superpowers themselves.

Blaming the Jews for cheating militarily is an understandable response
to being repeatedly trounced by Israel, even after the Arabs outnumber
Israel militarily by an order of magnitude in most respects.  Blaming
the Jews for being financially favored while the Arabs soak up
incredible amounts of money in petro-dollars is much harder to
undestand. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.jewish
From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:04:47 GMT

In article <93009.1556132893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>In article <EGGERTJ.93Jan8230323@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>,
>eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) says:
>>
>>In article <1993Jan9.020712.29014@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> carasso@Turing.ORG
>>(Roger Carasso) writes:
>>>   Israeli aid does not represent a transfer of money to Israel, if
>>>   Israel gives the U.S. more in return!
>>>
>>>          "Joseph Churba, a former top Air Force intelligence official
>>>          and head of the Washington-based Center for International
>>>          Security, estimated that it would cost the United States $100
>>>          billion or more in additional spending -- and the deployment
>>>          of more than 200,000 of its own troops -- to replace Israel's
>>>          pro-U.S. strategic weight in the Middle East."
>>>                  --Myths and Facts,
>>>                   A concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict,
>>>                   1989
>>
>>Ah yes, the famous Myths and Facts, edited by Leonard J. Davis and
>>Moshe Decter.  Funny that they cannot tell the difference between
>>myths and facts.  Now who is this famous analyst Joseph Churba?  And
>>how did he derive this silly $100 billion figure?  Why, that exceeds
>>Israel's GNP!  At that price, we would just buy up Israel and pay them
>>a handy profit each year for the "pro-U.S. strategic weight".
>>
>>Sorry for the sarcasm, but come on.
>>
>>Let's see.  Ah yes.  Joseph Churba, Ph.D. Columbia 1965.  His thesis
>>was on sub-Saharan foreign aid conflicts between Israel and the U.A.R.
>>He must have been in ROTC, as he served at Maxwell AFB in Alabama for
>>a couple of years.  He seems to be a regular critic of American
>>foreign policy in the Middle East.  Must have an axe to grind.  I'll
>>have to take a look at his book "The politics of defeat : America's
>>decline in the Middle East" for a laugh.  It was written in 1977, just
>>a year before the Camp David accords.
>>--
>>=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
>
>Besides the Cold War is over and in any case, it's been a long time since
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the US has been without Arab allies in the Mideast. If the "fact" were ever
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>accurate it has long since become an anachronism.


   How many "Arab Allies" does the U.S have in the MIddle East that did not
   have any major political instability or dictatorship rule in the past
    45 years?

   How long has it been since the U.S reaped the benefits of 
   Israel blowup of Iraq's reactor?

   How long has it been since the U.S benefited from Israeli intelligence
   about desert warfare?

Ishay 
   rest of the world ) by blowing Iraq's nuclear reactor?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: Hieroglyphics
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:13:12 GMT

Assalamu `alaykum,

In article <1993Jan5.131854.11294@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> afadel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ayman Fadel) writes:
>>I was always under the impression that most of the characters represented
>>words, rather than letters.  More like Chinese rather than Arabic.  I'll
>>look it up and post later.

  The symbols represented words as well as syllables. Like in Arabic and
Hebrew, short vowels were not written. Names were typically spelled and
names of kings were enclosed in rounded boxes. Until today, egyptologists
are not sure about the correct pronounciation of several letters, they made
some guesses based on Greek and Latin and they stuck with them.

>In Arabic, 'MiSr' just means city.

  True.

>It refers to the city
>that the Muslim soliders established near what is today Cairo.

  I agree with the other examples you gave, but Egypt was called MiSr even
in biblical times. The city was originally called Al-Qahirah, which remains
its name (Qahirat al-Mu`izz).

>but i could never understand the aaya in which Allah says ihbiTuu miSran

  Interestingly, even though Muhammad (PBUH) refered to Egypt by the name of
MiSr on several occasions, this particular instance does not refer to Egypt. In
this Ayah (Al Baqarah in reference to the Jews, I believe it is Ayah 54)
Allah (SWT) is not refering to Egypt. Notice that it says "MiSran", not
"MiSra". This is the indefinite form, meaning 'a miSr' not 'the MiSr.'

  Someone mentioned the Rosetta stone and wondered what the languages on it
were. The stone had inscriptions in Hieroglyphics, demotic and Greek. Demotic
is a simplified form of the hieratic writing, which is in turn a simplified
form of the hieroglyphic writing.


Assalamu `alaykum,

Mazen Mokthar