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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:58:00 EST
From:         The Nuzz <V063KC44@UBVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Jeff Sinatra and children of wrath

Jeff Sinatra quotes and writes...

js> tn> The concept of the fall permeates the Scriptures.  It is the reason
js> tn> that Jesus came; the nature of man hand been corrupted by the effect
js> tn> of sin...
js>
js> Immortality cannot be "corrupted" by mortality, for immortality has no
js> cognizance of mortaity, Truth has no cognizance of error.  Mortals may
js> believe themselves to be imperfect and seperate from God, but the mortal
js> man will disappear to the degree in which immortality becomes apparent.

     We were talking about being made in God's image, not about immortality.
     Certainly God is immortal, but the enemy will also last for ever and ever
     (Revelation 20:10). In my previous message I defined part of what it
     means to be made in God's as being made in purity and holiness. Although
     man was made in that condition, man did not stay in that condition.

js> As man's immortal nature dawns on human, mortal consciousness, the
js> physical will yield to the spiritual, and we will see ourselves as God has
js> created us--perfect and immortal.

     Perfect is how we were created, but that perfection, the lack of a bend
     towards sin, left man with The Fall. And if we say that we have no sin,
     we are liars. 1 John 1:8, ``If we say that we have no sin, we deceive
     ourselves, and the truth is not in us.''

js> "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have
js> sought out many inventions." (Ecc. 7:29) You articulated one of these
js> "inventions" when you stated, "By our nature we are children of wrath,
js> sons of the devil."  It is these kinds of beliefs that attempt to warp
js> reality, and combine the man of God's creating with mortality--"...the
js> children of wrath..." By identifying man as mortal, and of the flesh, you
js> have perverted the message of the Scriptures--there is a great gap between
js> the man of God's creating and the so-called mortal man.

     I think that we need to discern who is perverting the message of the
     Scriptures.

     First, I didn't identify man as mortal. Scripture seems to indicate that
     man is a tripartite being. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, ``And the very God os
     peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and
     body be preserved blameless unto the coming of of Lord Jesus Christ.''
     While man has elements of mortality in his body, that is not the whole of
     his being.

     Next, that which you refer to as an invention, that which you refer to as
     a belief that attempts to warp reality, is found in Ephesians 2:3 which I
     quoted in my previous message to you.

     Ephesians 2:2-3,``Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course
     of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the
     spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also
     we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
     fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature
     the children of wrath, even as others.''

     That is what Scripture tells us of our nature, that we are children of
     wrath. That is what you call an invention and a perversion. I see a major
     contradiction here in this aspect of the gospel of Christian Science and
     the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

js> Like the tares and the wheat, they never conjoin, but grow wholly seperate
js> from one another until there differences slowly become clear, and
js> mortality is burned--returned to nothingness. Indeed, "God hath made man
js> upright;..." but the mortal man is not this man, the mortal man is the
js> enemy that continues to sow tares in God's field, fortunately, the tares
js> have no effect on the growth and development of the wheat.  The time will
js> come when man's immortality will become apparent, but "patience must have
js> her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting
js> nothing."(Jas. 1:4)

     The Greek word, telios (and teleioi in the second instance), translated
     here as ``perfect,'' means ``complete.''

     I have no objection with mortal man being identified as the tares. The
     tares were planted by the enemy. The mortal man is spiritually dead, he
     hasn't been reborn, regenerated, quickened, by the Spirit of the Living
     God, and remains as he is naturally --- spiritually dead.

     Ephesians 2:1,``And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses
     and sins;''

     Ephesians 2:5, ``Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us
     together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)''

     The mortal man, the one who is spiritually dead, the one who has not
     been convicted of his sin and his need for salvation from his sin, is the
     one that the angels of the harvest will send forth to the fire.

     Once when Jesus was teaching in the temple, told his listeners that:

     John 8:44-5,``Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your
     father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in
     the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he
     speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.  And because
     I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.''

     Jesus was speaking the truth to them, that they were of their father the
     devil. But they couldn't accept that. They believed that they didn't need
     redemption, that they were children of Abraham. Jesus told them
     otherwise. And these were Jews who believed on him that He was the Son of
     God! Previously, John tells us that the audience that heard the above
     discourse were comprised of those who believed on Him:

     John 8:31-32, ``Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If
     ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall
     know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

     But, it was if they continued in His word, that they would be His
     disciples. The continuation of His discourse was that they were sons of
     the devil. This was a continuation of Christ's word, a part of what was
     needed to be a disciple --- the understanding that by nature we are
     children of wrath, sons of the devil.

     Without first realizing that we need to be saved from our sins, we won't
     seek to be saved from our sins. Then we will not be following in the
     first step of discipleship --- becoming born again.
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