From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Bilingualism and Imperium (it is still a good cause!)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:26:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.085712.14512@cs.chalmers.se>, tammet@cs.chalmers.se 
(Tanel Tammet) writes:
> In article <1993Jan5.163658.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi 
writes:

I agree with everything you have written on Germans and German language
in Estonia.

We have different opinions on bilingualism and this is a thing where
we do not have to reach agreement. It's up to Estonians how they
prefer to furnish their republic.

I will reformulate my questions about the status of Russian in
Estonia later on and concentrate on details of existing language 
legislation. But I would prefer to do it in soc.culture.baltics,
if it will be created!


I limit my comments to the Imperium and to Finnish and Estonian
relations to it.


>>Estonia is also a part of the Imperium. You have many economic
>>and cultural and political ties to Russian speaking Imperium.
>>And - the struggle for Estonian independency and democracy in Russia
>>are deeply tied together! That's why bilingualism should be supported.
> 
> In a sense Finland is (was until recently?) part of the Imperium (though
> a different denotation of Imperium than you use), the ties personified
> by the macho figure of Kekkonen. 


I think you are overexaggerating the Role of president Kekkonen. The
Finnish new policy towards the Soviet Union was started by conservative
state president Paasikivi (1946-56), not Kekkonen (1956-1981). This
policy of friendship was accepted by the all important parties of Finland.
It found support in the Finnish population: Finland became year by year
more independent and prosperous.


> The ties (both political and economical)
> were pretty strong. 
> 
> I know you have a different view on Kekkonen-related issues, so
> please do not bother to reply to the lines above :-) 


Supporting Kekkonen meant for me:

(1) A decision for peace and friendship in North-Eastern Europe.

(2) A decision for peaceful coexistence in Europe - Kekkonen was
one of the main initiators of the Helsinki process (I know - the
Baltic issues were neglected in 1975 in Helsinki - this was
one of drawbacks of the treaty :-(

After the start of the Baltic independence struggle the Baltic issues
will not be neglected any more in Finland, as you must have noticed.


Still, Kekkonen brought the first ship connection from Estonia abroad:
the Tallinn - Helsinki line that was opened directly after Kekkonen's
visit in Tallinn in 1964 or 1965.

 
> In my opinion one of the primary tasks of Estonia is to minimize
> the economic, cultural and political ties to Russian speaking
> Imperium. Of course, this may lead to some immediate economic
> losses (or maybe not?), but I consider the harm coming from
> strong connections to Russia greater than the good. 


Here, I fail to understand you totally.
I am ready to accept that you are not any more dependend on CIS
oil, because it can be bought from world market with world market
prices as well.

But what will the Estonian textile and food processing industries do?
Their markets and partly the raw material sources (for textiles) are situated 
inside CIS.

The new phenomenon that Finland has become the greatest trading partner
of Estonia is partly even unhealthy development. Finland should be
the second biggest - after CIS. Or are you trying to sell your food
to European Community markets? Good luck - but it won't get you
far :-(


> For example,
> economic ties with Russia do export corruption and crime from
> Russia to Estonia in a very noticeable degree. 


This is partly correct, according to my opinion. Still your main customers
speak Russian. Now and at least in the very near future.



> The trade with
> metals is one example. Sure, I am against any prohibition of
> trade with anybody: I just point out that trade with Russia
> has specific bad points when compared to trade with other countries.
 

Still, it's better than no trade at all!

 
> As for political and cultural ties: I do not think Estonia has
> much influence to Russian politics, and I definitely think
> that political ties with Russian politics are very unwelcome.


On the contrary: ties with Russian democratic forces are welcomed!

 
> In this I probably disagree with your general attitude, as you
> expressed yourself as a serious supporter of Kekkonen.


Yes: a serious supporter of his foreign policy. I never supported his party,
the Agrarians.

 

> Anyway, from your text above I read out that you suggest
> Estonia having strong economical, cultural and political ties
> with Russia, and ESPECIALLY FOR THAT REASON you suggest
> official bilingualism. 


I am inclined to think that Russia that is being reborn has got much
to offer to our countries. We should be able to understand to currect
situation and profit of it, in culture and in economy.


> Me, on the other hand, am against official
> total bilingualism exactly for the reason to escape the sphere
> of Russian dominance. I am not at all optimistic about keeping
> close ties with Russia to gain something WITHOUT losing more
> than the gain. 


I am not for KEEPING previous close ties (like Communist dictatorship and
marxist-leninist lectures in university) but for CREATING new
ones. The keys for Baltic independence (and perhaps, even to
prosperity) are still in Moscow.


> It is very hard to keep the right balance.
> Total official bilingualism would be absolutely off-balance,
> losing much-much more than the gain. At least this is a
> universally accepted truth in Estonian politics.


The point where we do not understand each other might be the
notion of TOTAL bilingualism. I might be against it as well..
But I'll reformulate this question later on.

<the bank note discussion deleted> 



>>> Imagine
>>> dropping Swedish from Finland and introducing Russian as
>>> official language - no political consequences in the long run?
>>
>>Of course, but that would be unnecessary, since there are only
>>8000 Russians in Finland, mostly, in Helsinki.
> 
> It would be necessary to get closer ties with Russia if you
> somewhy want that :-) 

With smiley, OK... But Finland needs more Russian education that
has been neglected in past years. The situation when our Eastern
trade has collapsed is an unnatural and unhealthy one. And, one
of the main reasons of the deep economic depression that we are
now facing.

The Finns would like to, as an example, provide the St. Petersburg
with milk. But I suppose that the Estonians could produce cheaper
milk?


> I bet you will have a little more than
> 8000 Russians after some time once Russian has been
> introduced as an official language :-)


We will have more Russians in any case. During this year, about one
million people from XUSSR visited Finland. Most of them came to
Helsinki or through Helsinki. Some more Russian signs on Helsinki
streets are badly needed.

with best regards,
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet