HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:31:53 GMT
	<1992Sep30.160303.13009@ncsu.edu>
Organization: noitazinagrO

In article <1992Sep27.224750.1039@ncsu.edu>, 
barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>Oh, yeah!  I haven't had this happen in gaming (was only ever in one).  But in
>high school, one of my teachers was setting up a mock wedding and insisted that
>the preacher be male.  I was so angry.  So when she asked for volunteers, I
>raised my hand just to make the point of protesting.

In article <1992Sep30.160303.13009@ncsu.edu> 
blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN) writes:
>If this wasn't so serious, it would be funny.  According to Barbara
>Walker's sources, she writes that it was women who used to officiate
>over weddings before the male-dominated religions took over.

That strikes me as matriarchy versus patriarchy. In a partriarchy, it is men
who control marriage, in a matriarchy, it is women who control marriage. Note
that marriage by choice of the bride and groom is relatively recent. In the
past, who got married to whom was a tribal or familial decision.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: pronounce Daoine Sidhe
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 26 Sep 92 21:14:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep21.160814.7663@ac.dal.ca> jblain@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Sep18.223419.13909@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) writes:

[more talk about how to pronounce Daoine Sidhe]

Post to soc.culture.celtic.  Believe me, they'll know.  I once needed
the words for "sun" and "moon" in Welsh, Cornish, Breton, and Gaelic and
couldn't get them becuase our library is woefully inadequate.  I posted
and had the words in more Brythonic and Goidelic langauges than I had
known existed.

POST TO SOC.CULTURE.CELTIC!!!  They WILL tell you, and will likely give
you dialectal variants as well.  

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech....definition
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:01:59 GMT

Janis --

                Brava!

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Polarity in ritual
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:36:00 GMT

erik@cs.uq.oz.au (Erik van Keulen) writes:

>In <1992Sep29.193756.24879@u.washington.edu>
>mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:

>>Does anyone have practical suggestions for creating public ritual that
>>doesn't alienate les/bi/gay people with heterosexist or overly
>>polarity-based imagery, while at the same time not alienating or
>>excluding heterosexuals?  It's possible to come up with completely
>>inoffensive stuff, but it tends to be pablum.  We need better than that.

>Thank you for being so aware of the problem! I'm sorry now that i'm _such_
>a beginner that i know nothing about rituals... But maybe i could comment
>on how _i_ feel about any examples you could give.

I think it depends on what your beliefs dictate and how attached you are
to a particular `diety' system. For me and the people that I have had
ritual with, we tend to invoke whatever powers, spirits, dieties seem to
be appropriate for the time, season, purpose of that particular circle
without very much regard for what `gender' is involved with that power.


>All i can try to describe now, is the problem i've generally had in
>exploring my spirituality: that biology so often seems the most potent
>spiritual "cycle", and that my inclinations shut me out of that. But i
>guess straight men don't want to limit their spiritual role, and therefore
>the imagery in ritual, to "quickener of the seed" either do they?

I can only speak for myself and say `no they don't'.

>What's become as important to me, for example, is achieving a
>practical daily realization of being made of the same stuff as all else. In
>other words, exploring my spirituality through Loving all else... a bright
>flower, the rain, a shell at the beach: actively feeling that i'm made of
>the same stuff, material and spiritual, as all of that. (I called my goal
>"smearing myself out like peanut butter on a slice of bread..." :-) ) This
>sort of spiritual growth doesn't get cut off by my sexuality. And i find it
>at least as important as the concept of joining life's cycle of
>parent-child-parent or any cycle of crops and their fertility. I don't know
>if you can base public rituals on any of this?

I do.. I think the key is to be `inclusive' in the wording of the
rituals developed so as not to connect the participants sexuality to
the inherent or implied `cycles' of death/rebirth. We all die and are
reborn, in my opinion whether we are het, homo, human, or tree. I believe
that this is the basis for nature/earth based celebrations and rituals,
not necessarily involving `mating' at all.

I appreciate both of your thoughts on this matter and hope my $.02
is not offensive.

Blessed Be
/al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Birth data (was Re: a nice experience...)
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:21:39 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <6OCT199207430789@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.131354.1860@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes...
>> 
>>Janis wrote:
>>> ailsa wrote:
>>> >birthdate 11/18/63 one somethign in the afternoon, wilmington
>>> >delaware, aries rising, moon, mercury, venus, mars in sagittarius (a
>>> >good chart for having a bad temper *grin*)
>>> 
>>> >so, what's everybody else's?  i'd been meaning to ask...
>>> 
>
>Can I jump on this bandwagon tooooo?
>
>Tammy

I don't know what Eshin-Fun is charging, but I've always wondered too. I'm
a Leo, but other than that, I dunno...

Born approx. 6:30PM July 29th, 1961 in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

Would REALLY appreciate knowing the rest of my zodiac. :-)

Thanks in advance,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Originator: blchapma@c00466-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:28:41 GMT


In article <BvH1tJ.M2B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
|> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
|> Path: taco!rock!stanford.edu!ames!think.com!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu!ba
|> From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
|> Subject: Re: books to avoid
|> References: <9209292228.AA19288@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> <5346@gold.gvg.tek.com>
|> Message-ID: <BvH1tJ.M2B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|> Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
|> Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
|> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 22:05:42 GMT+5:00
|> Lines: 45
|> 
|> conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten) writes:
|> 
|> >Dear WenD:
|> 
|> >In article <9209292228.AA19288@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> ST801706@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU writes:
|> >>book is ultra-ultra-ultra feminist, as in the brand of feminism
|> >>where all women are perfect and all men can sink into a swamp and
|> >>die.
|> 
|> >As a feminist, I have to object to your equating feminism (with ultras
|> >attached or not, it's still feminism you're referring to) as being anti-male.
|> >At any level.  This concept is definitely what folks like Jerry Faldwell
|> >and Rush Limbaugh want people to believe -- they both repeat this bogus
|> >"aspect" of feminism quite a bit.
|> 
|> >Feminism and man-hating two different things.  Period.  If they are not,
|> >then by your definition, a man can not be an ultra-ultra-ultra feminist.
|> >Obviously they can, and are.
|> 
|> >Sorry about the flame, but, well, there it is ... we speak our minds in
|> >this newsgroup!
 
|> Well, by this definition, Z. Budapest is not a feminist.  I wonder how she would
|> like to be told that.  Coni, you are imposing *your* idea of feminism on all
|> of feminism.  WenD made it very clear that sie was not referring to all of 
|> feminism but to one extremist end of it.  If you don't believe that there are
|> extremist feminists, I can quote stories from my lesbian and bi women friends
|> who have been attacked for associating with males.  Also, there are certainly
|> men who are man-haters, who accept the idea that men are the evil perpetrators
|> of patriarchy.  There are lots of people who are self-destructive.

I kind of like the term Gloria Steinem uses for anti-woman men --
"male supremicist".  Perhaps we could call man-hating women
"female supremicists" and keep feminist as a more egalitarian term?

Just a thought.
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:17:03 GMT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:

> Actually, Iwonder, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, if you
> have a choice nowadays, since there are more people alive, *now* than
> have *ever* lived. Or are there just *lots* of first-timers?

Actually, I suspect we 'wiccans' inheirited by default the doctrine of 
reincarnation froom the thesophists, et al....

I have seen no signs, after many years of study, of a convincing modern 
pagan philosophy of death, or at least one that wasn't lifted whole clth 
or manufactured by one of the 'founding fathers'.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson)
Subject: Re: night and winter
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:32:56 GMT

>Janis Cortese writes:
>>Anyone else out there like nighttime and winter?

Nighttime -- yes. Winter -- no.

Here in the south of Sweden, winter is the pits. From October when the
leaves have fallen off all the trees until May when the new leaves
emerge, is pure darkness. In the morning when I wake up, it's dark,
and in the late afternoon when I get home, it's dark. Talk about
depressing.  Certainly, we have at least five light hours a day, but
is that enough? The time around Christmas is the time when most
suicides are committed. Small wonder, if you ask me. 

Summer, on the other hand, is wonderful! Go see Shakespeare's A
Midsummernights Dream and you will understand why. Summer nights when
it never gets really dark, but you just have a few hours of combined
dusk and dawn. It's magical! To be out walking, smelling the roses,
the jasmines, the honeysuckles! Feeling the cold grass under your
feet! Heaven!

I agree with Harry the affectionate: I don't like winter!

--Ceci, living in the wrong place
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Words of more than one syllable, not stressed on the last syllable,
do not double the final consonant, unless it is l, when a suffix
beginning with a vowel is added,..." From The Oxford Guide to English Usage
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield)
Subject: Thanks
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:41:01 GMT

Hello to all -

My name is Jill, and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who post
regularly to this group.  I just discovered you about a month ago, and
have enjoyed the humor, support, and sharing that goes on here.  I am
a solitary practitioner, and its really nice to have found a group I
can participate in.

I'm sure I'll be posting more in the future!

Blessings

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: killops@mentorg.com (Scott Killops)
Subject: Re: Little Boxes (was: another poem)
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Summary: Malvina Wrote It
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:47:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.172348.18525@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>In article <17608@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep27.022737.11287@wolves.uucp>, wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>>> Well, the song is "Little Boxes", written by Pete Seeger.  According to
>
>>Would you please post the Sing Out! reference to this? I would have sworn
>>by all god/desses living, dead, and unborn that this song was Malvina's.
>>The story I heard was that she wrote it in response to all the apartment
>>complexes ("little boxes made of ticky-tacky") being built in the 
>>Berkeley hills, so the reference to the "University" is, of course,
>>UC Berkeley.
>>Richard
>>(Tuneweaver)
>
>      Can't give a reference, but CAN provide an upper limit timestamp:
>this song was on a live Pete Seeger album my parents had prior to
>1965.
>							Peter Trei
>							ptrei@Mitre.org
>
>PS: no doubt the good people on rec.music.folk will flood us with the
>straight dope (note Followup-To: line).

I'll bite.  Malvina wrote it.  Sometime in the last year or so, Pete Seeger's
1963 Carnegie Hall concert was reissued on CD and it's on there.  That may
be the lp you're remembering.  He credits Malvina with having written it
on there.  Words would undoubtedly be found in "Rise Up Singing", the
folk song book put out by "Sing Out!".

The Carnegie Hall concert disc is great, BTW.  I guess the original lp was
one record with highlights; the CD includes the full concert.

Chow, Scott

-- 
Scott Killops                                scott_killops@mentorg.com
Mentor Graphics Corporation                   ...!uunet!mntgfx!killops
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rcormac@colossus.cs.oberlin.edu (Cormac (Xbattle -rcormac) Russell)
Subject: Re: Binding or Protective Spells
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:44:31 GMT
X-Posted-From: colossus.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Well, I guess another suggestion is in order since the implication is
that you are fearing physical actions... In that case maybe your
friend should take up a martial art (My bias is towards Ishinryu
Karate but hey...). It may help your friend gain a little more
confidence in dealing with this person and will give them some tools
for defending themselves should this person attempt to inflict bodily
harm. My previous suggestions also still stand as helpful... (If your
friend KNOWS how to use a gun and has no problems carrying one and if
your state has appropriate handgun laws, and your friend thinks the
risk of a firearm is worth the offensive and defensive capabilities it
gives one then that is an option...). Hrrrmmm... Try a spell to build
up your friend's confidence with dealing with this person, and have
them combine it with some training in a martial art, that should help
their peace of mind... Definitely don't try to do anything to harm
this harasser though, violence (in whatever form) should only be used
in self defence... Oh well I am rambling and probably not providing
any usefull suggestions so... 
   Blessed Be
     Cormac
--
Retch The Grate aka Cormac Russell    Amiga, The Computer for The Creative Mind
                      rcormac@occs.cs.oberlin.edu           
Vote Libertarian in 92! Marrou/Lord!
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: a nice experience last night
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:03:10 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <Rs7wRB16w165w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
(Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>birthdate 11/18/63 one somethign in the afternoon, wilmington
>delaware, aries rising, moon, mercury, venus, mars in sagittarius (a
>good chart for having a bad temper *grin*)
>
>so, what's everybody else's?  i'd been meaning to ask...

birthdate 31 Dec 59 7:40 pm GMT, Winchester, England. Leo rising, moon
in aquarius, tight sun/saturn conjunction in capricorn,
mercury/mars/jupiter conjunction in sagittarius.

A good chart for lots of enthusiasm but never getting around to
things. Or for painstaking work, depending how you handle it ;-)

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:10167 alt.individualism:5604
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.individualism
Subject: Re: Libertarians, guns, etc.
Date: 29 Sep 92 06:27:27 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <1992Sep26.120507.21692@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
> allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep22.182810.29711@radian.uucp>, markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:
>>> The Libertarians
>>> who keep talking to me around here don't seem to have any coherent plan
>>> to change what exists into their ideal society (tell me, do we drop all those
>>> laws & regulations, and start out with people who are billionaires, and the
>>> rest of us broke, or do we take all of everyone's money away from them,
>>> divvy it up equally, and start from a level playing field?).
> 
>>	Libertarians are, among other things, in favor of eliminating 
>>limited liability for corporations. Thus, if those billionares are that 
>>rich due to stock ownership, they can be sued and fined for what the 
>>corporations they own and control do. Admittedly, current fine schedules 
>>need to be adjusted (possibly adjusted by income level or size of 
>>corporation) to something that's a significant penalty level.
> 
> That's a new one.  Perhaps you are thinking about communists instead?
> It certianly isn't part of the Libertarian Party platform, or in any
> way compatable with libertarian ideas that I can see.
> 
	I see a possible cause for your confusion. I was saying that 
Libertarians are in favor of eliminating limited liablility for 
corporations (check the party platform), not that they were neccessarily 
in favor of the latter proposal.
	I feel that the latter proposal, in cases where one can't determine
degree of wrongdoing by degree of monetary harm to someone (as opposed to the
determinable ones, in which case recompensense may certainly be independent of
the size of the corporation), would make the law more non-discriminatory. In
other words, currently the law for corporate fines punishes small corporations
much more than large ones. I want to even that out.
	-Allen
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: C & E
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:04:37 GMT

c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:

>In article <BvGuH5.J1K@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>>c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>>
>>
>>>	Does anybody happen to know what author Mercedes Lackey means
>>>when the uses the phrase "the C&E"?  I get the feeling it has something
>>>to do with Christianity or "normal" religions (normal in the "the general
>>>public is unlikely to view an adherant of this faith as a Satanist" sense)
>>
>>Can you give an example, with citation of the location?  I don't remember 
>>running across anything I didn't understand in any of her books, so I may have
>>pulled it out by context clues.

>	The best I can do right now is to say that it was used in 
>"Burning Water" during the scene where Mark Valdez has a minor crisis of
>religion at 3am, in his kitchen, while he and DT are reading lots about
>some local traditions, thus giving DT a chance to talk about her reasons for
>being a witch instead of an Epsicipalian(SP?).  I can't give you a page #
>until I am posting from home, where the book is.

Could the phrase have been "C of E"?  That means Church of England, the Anglican
Communion, including the Episcopal Churches.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 1992 14:00:00 -0400 
From: Matthew Donald Celeskey <mc7b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?

I seem to recall that the Aztecs performed a burying ceremony with
umbilical cords - a boys would be buried with effigies of war and a
girls would be buried by the home or hearth.

Perhaps burying the tissue in a spot important for the parents or with
effigies to bestow positive attributes would be in order.

Just a thought.
Matt.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Witches in Salem?
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 02:31:29 GMT

clucas@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Jean E. Clucas) writes:
> I will be in the Salem area for about a week, ...
> Does anyone out there have suggestions for a pagan visitor to
> Salem?
> 
> Please respond by mail. 

No, please post!

Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.