HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: Do hard times cause hate?
Keywords: economics, cause, prejudice, sociology
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:23:58 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

I agree that hard times lead to hate.  I remember seeing a lot of OCA
rhetoric in Oregon about how well-off the homosexuals were -- this
especially played well in areas hit hard by the decline in the logging
industry.

In short, I fear, that many straight white men believe that America
belongs to them.  The world exists for them, and especially the good
jobs exist for them.  The rest of us are "allowed" to work when times
are good.  In bad times, rather like these, women should be home cooking
and raising babies.  Non-whites should go back where they came from. 
And fags and dykes?  As we are less-than-human to them,  bashing and
hate seem a natural.

Suzanne
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles         Honor Diversity            schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194                                         Oracle Corporation
                   Hate is not a family value
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:54:37 GMT

In article <73181@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>See, we even have the camp-impaired here.  And who says that soc.motss
>>is not an equal opportunity newsgroup.
>
>"Camp-impaired?" I think not. At least, I can tell the difference
>between "camp" -- which can be rather acerbic -- and Arne's
>indiscriminate, unrelenting nastiness.

George, I'm sure you have no idea how nice people are being to you here
in this discussion; I think there's been a real attempt to avoid a tit
for tat (exactly why I'm not sure: I think it's because in this
extended family, you're one of the core relatives, and you're not going
away, so that flame-throwers aren't going to be very productive;
we've got to live with one another, and you are going to completely
miss the point if you get torched.)

Listen, Arne might not be _your_ cup of tea, but you are really losing
your grip on reality (not to mention your power to persuade anyone) if
you insist on describing Arne as being "indiscriminately, unrelentingly
nasty."  This completely undermines your efforts, because whatever you
might not like about him, that description is completely out of whack.
Indeed, this effort of yours is a source of amusement to most people
here, who would be more inclined to describe your own contributions to
motss in such one-dimensional terms, if they weren't too polite to do so.
Listen, it wasn't so long ago that you were saying the same things about
Jess, and now the two of you are perfectly civil to each other, so there
is certainly precedent here.

Now, how about trying to be an objective core relative?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:49:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.181426.16611@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.173553.20574@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>>In article <C0MB65.Ln1@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.

>>I don't see any smilies, but I hope to Gawd you mean this sarcastically.
>
>I don't know whether or not Roger is kidding, but even if
>he is I agree with his statement.  We're commemorating a
>specific event, or so I thought.  It seems that the holiday
>is losing its meaning and it's not even 25 years old.

When I go to Pride Day in Toronto, it's to celebrate gay pride.  Stonewall
was an important event, arguably the most important in gay culture as
you and I know it, but I respectfully submit that Pride Day means more
than just commemorating Stonewall.  A lot has happened between then and
now, things with which I identify more closely than Stonewall; these events
are worthy of consideration too.

Further, while Stonewall was a pivotal event for North America, the
effect was a little less significant in many other continents in the
world.  IMHO, peoples who have never heard of Stonewall should perhaps
be exempt from the blanket statement above.

If we were truly serious about commemorating Stonewall, we should be
declaring a Stonewall Day on the anniversary of the event, not a floating
week-end under a different name.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman)
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game"
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:51:43 GMT

Most of the reviews I saw for it gave nothing away.  They all
began with some statement like "This is a great film and I can't
tell you anything about it without giving something away."  So
I stopped reading them (I read them _after_.)  What I thought
was unfortunate was that this practice (ie. _not_ reading the
reviews) made me expect a little more than was actually delivered.

I mean, it was _great_ and I loved it, but the bits of the
reviews I read led me to believe that it was full of unexpected
twists.  Really, only two things happened that I didn't expect.

So, go see it, but don't expect it to be as twisty as, say,
"Deathtrap."

--Don
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:13:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan5.201356.20013
Organization: insert anything here

will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
>I recently went shopping for a new bottle of
>cologne and was reminded by the variety of choices
>available. Among those were: Obsession, Drakkar Noir,
>Stetson, Kouros, and Eternity for Men. 

	Oooooh -10 points - you forgot the other option,
"the empty set".

>Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
>may be within the gay community. Is there any special
>preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?

	The best cologne is of course - not at all.
It's free, it goes with every occasion, it doesn't upset
people's allergies, and you never have to worery
about it going out of style.

	The manufactures of smelly cologne aer VERY well
aware of this -that's why they spend LOTS of $$$ trying to
confuse you into forgetting that this is the case --- they
tried bottling and selling air, but it didn't work.

>Perhaps we could have nominations and take a vote.

	I vote - nothing.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Credit Styles
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:35:20 GMT

In article <thaaang.726177904@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>
>>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>>glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>>>Greggie dear, is there *any* way you could get me a credit card? It
>not to use it, wouldn't it? Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be
>expecting the card shortly, Greggie dear.
>
>>And I promise I will never call you 'Greggie dear' to get it.
>
>Oh, come now! Calling someone Greggie dear is on a level with
>calling them Stud-o-Matic, in my book.

o-Matic? hummm, i could've sworn he was "manually" operated... :-)

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca   postmaster@thinkage.com   thinkage!kgdykes
         harley-request@thinkage.on.ca             kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:51:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan11.185155.9122
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan11.174619.27758@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM> bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett) writes:
>The point I was trying to make was about the slang terms we use to
>refer to people who, for whatever reason, choose to date people of
>color. (or whatever term you want to use)  What does it say about 
>an issue when the terms used are "rice queen", "salsa queen" and
>"dinge queen"?  Can you honestly say people who use such terms 
>aren't making some sort of value judgement?

Well, you're absolutely right, of course.

>I don't think the term for minorites who date whites, "snow queen",
>carries these same connotations.  I'm fairly sensitive to how 
>language is used, and the slang terms alone speak volumes. 

Plus, it's hard to be insulted by a word which identifies you as part
of the majority, if you are part of the majority.  That doesn't stop
most majorities (usually white people) from attempting this: peek in
rec.arts.books where a discussion of CO:9 (don't ask what this is doing
in r.a.b) turns into how awful it is to use the phrase "white Protestant
het boy" to describe people who "don't get it" when issues around civil
rights are brought up.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:39:44 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1993Jan8.203959.4544@usl.edu> rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) writes:

>In the Deep South:
>	Gravy is brown
>	Roux is gray
>	Milk Gravy is white, but is very hard to find

Nay, nay, dear heart!  

Gravy is _tan_ -- milk gravy from meat drippings.

Roux is either gray or sickly yellow, depending on the grease base
used (meat drippings, or butter/margarine).

Milk gravy is white, but __EASY__ to find.

I have no idea how you define "Deep South", but this is how I've found
the situation to be for the last 31 years in Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama,
both Carolinas, both Virginias, Kentucky, and (north) Florida.

That is, all my life, no matter where I've lived.

>p.s. And the differences between American-food-names and British-food-
>names is even more amazing!

Hell, the difference between food names within different parts of the
U.S. is amazing -- is the generic name in your area for the name brand
Coca-Cola(tm) "coke", "pop", "soda", "co-cola" or "seltzer"?  I've heard
all five in different parts of the country.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Maria Montez vs Burl Ives, or Lighten Up a Little, Folks
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 11:34:03 GMT

In article <72985@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com
(George Dalton Madison) writes:

>Steve Dyer writes:

>>Maybe you could try reading what Arne has to say without prejudice.

>I did; that's what resulted in the dismal opinion of him that
>I've formulated over time.

Much as I want to enter this particular fray, I won't.
Some things just *are*.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Out to parents in relationships (was Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...)
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:59:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan7.005921.7904
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <KMEYER.93Jan6161800@solarium.aero.org> kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
>I have noticed one peculiar characteristic about every couple that
>I know who have had successful long term relationships.  In every
>instance, both partners have been out to their parents.

This I'd think is generally true, but not in our case.
14 years and still skirting the issue, believe it or not.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Subject: RE: Baaahr Manners in Bahwston
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:44:25 GMT

Even though it has degenerated completely from my original post (which,
bytheway, was meant as humor, although I neglected the { :) } symbol -
oh the faux pas of it all.......):

What is all this tra-la-la-la about driving in Boston?  REAL QUEERS
DON'T DRIVE IN BOSTON, they all live in the South End and strut
everywhere.  Besides, the cost of owning a car in Boston is so high that
it would cut too dearly into our clothing allowance.

And they don't give directions.

:)

	Tom Carlin
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dissertation on soc.motss (PLEASE READ)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 19:08:06 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan7.135645.27974@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> 
dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman) writes:

> For example, what is the role of irony in soc.motss?  

Irony in soc.motss?  Shirley you jest.

> What problems arise with the difficulties of
> marking irony in computer-mediated communication?

Oh, I think a current thread makes clear the kinds of problems
that arise.  I refuse to mark irony with smileyfaces.  If
someone doesn't understand that virtually everything I write 
here is meant ironically, then no amount of smileyheads will
make any difference.

Arne
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Subject: Thanks to all...
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:49:24 GMT



	Thanks to everyone who sent me the text of Colorado's
Amendment 2, and Oregon's failed initiative 9.  My mailbox
overfloweth! Now I know where to go when I need information fast.
Thanks folks.  Now everyone can stop sending me those texts.


Thanks. :-)
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:39:34 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan6.203408.16833@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>>The 12-step therapies seem to help people fight their urges 
>>toward homosexuality while the scream therapies seem to make 
>>those urges go away for ever.
>I'm assuming this was meant ironically. There are no smileys, but many
>people don't use them (myself among them); and besides, there's no
>*way* this post could be serious. Right?

You're showing your newbie status, Andrew.  This is typical Edward Kennedy
(no relation) insanity.  They must have released him early.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Catharsis
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com



This whole flame war with George has made me consider posting
styles/motivations.  I tend to not insult people in real life.
In fact, I tend towards being a basically nice person.  Why is
it, then, that I have this tendency to flame George (and to 
pick fights with Steve) at seemingly random times.  I then realize
that I take out my frustrations with life/job/whatever, on people
on the net.  I get out of a meeting where I am angry, and I see
George calling someone a name, so I flame him, and voila, I feel
better.  If I keep up the fight for a while, I am in a really
bad mood (usually, this is with Steve, not George).  

I don't know why I do this, but I suspect I am not the only one...

FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of skinhead beauty
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:02:38 GMT

hutch@ibeam.intel.com (Steve Hutchison) writes:

>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>>(Speaking of beauty, is there any way to make hair grow quickly? I
>>don't want to make a first impression in training as a (total)
>>skinhead...)

>Well, you could always get some of that new "head flocking" spray
>they're advertising on all the cable stations late at night ...
>You know, the "mascara for the top of the head" stuff?  With a
>proper stencil you could make a very interesting impression.

No worries. I had a minimum of stubble today for my first day of
training, and noone freaked. I don't think I frightened any black
people, which is what I was really worried about (That sounds worse
than I mean; I just didn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable).
And 'round about last night the stubble was at a length where it
really felt groovy; I think I just might end up doing this again,
except next time I'm going to take more precautions (like actually
wetting my hair first, and using something like shaving cream, and
maybe buying fresh blades for my razor).
--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
From: tdober@llnl.gov (TDO)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:59:07 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: llnl

In article <mattm-060193095451@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) wrote:
> In article <1993Jan6.015730.14655@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
> (Jess Anderson) wrote:
> > In article <mattm-050193094345@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:


Ohhhh, Matt and Jess are flirting again. Isn't that **sweet**?


And they said it wouldn't last....


TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"

Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Date: Sat,  9 Jan 93 15:53:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <73238@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan9.215414.10387@spdcc.com>

Steve Dyer writes:
>        >And frankly, I think **YOU** have little call to get up on a
>        >soapbox and prate at *me*, given that you're the one who asked>the
>>the question in public that started the whole thing in the FIRSTplace.
>This was known as a word to the wise, George.

Then why wasn't it sent in email?  Why wasn't your ORIGINAL
question sent in email?  One tends to wonder about your
motivation.

>Didn't care much for English lit, did you?

Survey says:  ***BZZZZT***

>This was a _pun_, George.

"Objective core relative" is a damn *obtuse* pun, then.

>It has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Then why bother -- to quote you.

-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: akcs.kennedy@vpnet.chi.il.us (Edward A. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:55:01 CST


John Sanger writes:
|
|Road apples!
|
|There has never been anyone who is a homosexual that has ever been cured.
|
|You cannot cure something that is not a malfunction.
 
The inverse of that arguement, of course, is that if there ever had 
been someone "cured" of it, just one person even, then it is a mal-
function.  :-)  <only joking>
 
-Ed
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: 8 Jan 93 04:13:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan8.041350.882
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <73149@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I don't know where Steve got the idea I'm "prejudiced" against
>Arne. It's not like I met him in person, decided I didn't care
>for him and from *that* perspective find his postings abrasive.
>I've never met him in person; my entire opinion of him is derived
>from the nasty, vitriolic postings to .motss that Steve finds so
>inexplicably charming. So telling me to "read without prejudice"
>would only lead to me coming to the same conclusion all over again.

_What_ nasty vitriolic postings?  Hey, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
That's a feature.

>Talk about an utterly clueless piece of self-absorbed shit.

We do, regularly.

>Try re-reading this, moron -- maybe you'll catch a badly needed clue:
>	That tired old queen?  Why the hell would anyone bother
>	talking to a drab who'd chose to live in *Glendale*?
>Putting shit like that in a message where you whine about not
>being able to fathom why I find you about as pleasant as salt
>in an open wound is an *amazing* -- though not uncharacteristic
>--example of your hypocrisy.

That's known as George-baiting, not whining, and not hypocrisy, George.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:52:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.171613.22010@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> In article <1993Jan8.162139.19231@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
> >And, after all, aside from having Dinah Shore sing
> >in a sleepy, narcotized voice about Glendale as "Glendale Federal',
> >and being the place where Joan Crawford escaped /from/ in "Mildred
> >Pierce", it really doesn't have a lot to say for itself, or to be proud of.
> 
> Doesn't it have the largest Armenian community outside of Yerevan?  Yum.

  I thought that was down by the Fairfax district, but I could be wrong.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:27:31 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan5.030042.10601@netcom.com> onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>I suppose that there are indeed massive numbers of clueless men who
>can't think beyond the end of their dicks, but that is a sign of ignorance
>and insensitivity, not women-hating.

Well, would you allow that it might look differently seen from the
other end of your dick?  I am reluctant to claim categorically that
the hated can't decide for themselves when they're hated.  It's a
very "Walter" kind of argument, y'know?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer