HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orloff@surya4.cern.ch (Jean Orloff)
Subject: Re: What's pop? (Post Office Protocol???)
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for Particle Physics
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:15:09 GMT

>>>>> On 12 Nov 92 14:30:19 GMT, sammy@smds.com (Samuel Murphy) said:

Samuel> I thought it was Post Office Protocol.

Me too! That's why I looked in here in the first place: I'm looking
for pointers to unix pop servers... Anyone??

Jean
--
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*	Jean Orloff		*	e-mail: ORLOFF@dxcern.cern.ch	*
*	TH-Division, CERN	*	phone:	(41-22) 767-3204	*
*	CH-1211 Geneva 23	*	fax:	(41-22) 782-3914	*
*************************************************************************
From: Whitten@Fwva.Saic.Com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pop
Subject: POP good for AI?
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:46:03 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

As part of the proto-FAQ, there was some mention of Artificial Intelligence
techniques being easier in the *POP* languages.
 
What makes it easier?
 
The link of PROLOG with POP == POPLOG implies backtracking ability, but could
mean language support of databases or unification.
 
Would a POP guru please elaborate?
From: aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pop
Subject: Re: Gateway'd yet?
Keywords: pop11 archive
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:14:37 GMT
Organization: The Istari Council

Don't know about Sussex, but this group is already being archived
at Birmingham. It should be available for anonymous ftp from
ftp.cs.bham.ac.uk in /pub/usenet/comp.lang.pop/*
[As soon as articles appear, that is!]

Andy.
From: sammy@smds.com (Samuel Murphy)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pop
Subject: What's pop?
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:30:19 GMT
Reply-To: sammy@ishmael.UUCP (Samuel Murphy)
Organization: Software Maintenance & Development Systems, Inc.

I thought it was Post Office Protocol.

-Sam
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: mail delivery error
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:29:29 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: smith@ctron.com's message of 10 Nov 92 17:51:08 GMT

In article <5897@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:

   [ much that I agree with ]

   >      e) DEFINITION & IMPLEMENTATION merged.  Exported identifiers are
   >      marked with a *.  Read-only exported variables are marked with a -.
   >      Let us hope they make a read-only VAR parameter, which would be
   >      useful for exported procedures that take a VAR parm for efficiency.
   >      The programmer using the procedure would be guaranteed that the
   >      parameter is not modified!

   This was a really bad move.  Now you can't define the interface separately
   and enforce it, and the "*" and "-" stuff is really kludgy, very atypical
   of Wirth's work.

You could, of course, argue that the def/imp model is a "bad move"
because it forces one interface on a piece of code.  There is nothing
stopping me using an implementation for more than one purpose (e.g. an
avl tree to implement a set or a map) by having two interfaces to it
(a la signatures/structures in ML).  Personally I'm ambivalent.

   Just about the best language money can buy, though. All it needs is a good
   exception-handling mechanism to be ready to take on all comers.

Hm, seems to be a bit of deja vu here :-)  Did you see/reply to my
last set of questions about your view of exception handling.  I didn't
see any folloup.

bevan
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: mail delivery error
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:51:08 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <9211091022.A01745@MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>, thutt@MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV (thutt) writes:

>   1) Removal of superfluous items:
>      a) Enumerations:  They do not add enough expressiveness to a program
>      to warrant the added complexity in the compiler.  For the most part,
>      if you are using modules in a good fashion, you can use constants in
>      the place of enuerations.  The only drawback to this is that of
>      type-checking.

I wouldn't classify enumerations as "superfluous", their removal is a real
loss.  But I think the real reason they went was because they are so difficult
to type-extend.  Type-extension is Oberon's "thing", and it would be most
difficult to set up a mechanism wereby various enumerations were derived from
previously-defined enumerations, where certain identifiers are valid for all,
but not all identifiers are.

>      b) Nested modules:  Discovered to be hardly used, and thus removed

I used 'em, but it makes more sense to make modules the unit of compilation,
and not worry about nesting them.  A useful simplification.

>      c) generic SET OF: Since there is no enumeration, what are you to make
>      a set from?  The SET type is now equivalent to the M-2 BITSET. It is of
>      an implementation dependant size (usually at least 32 bits).

This was Wirth not going far enough.  Without enumerations, sets really have
little utility or expressiveness over bit-pushing operators like C's.  SETS
could have been axed in favor of a slight extension of the INTEGER type.

>      d) FOR statement removed in Oberon.  It is reinstated in Oberon-2.

Wirth discovered that counting loops really are a primitive construct.

>      e) DEFINITION & IMPLEMENTATION merged.  Exported identifiers are
>      marked with a *.  Read-only exported variables are marked with a -.
>      Let us hope they make a read-only VAR parameter, which would be
>      useful for exported procedures that take a VAR parm for efficiency.
>      The programmer using the procedure would be guaranteed that the
>      parameter is not modified!

This was a really bad move.  Now you can't define the interface separately
and enforce it, and the "*" and "-" stuff is really kludgy, very atypical
of Wirth's work.  Even if you accept that merging the def and imp is good,
interface details like READONLY really deserve their own keywords.

Just about the best language money can buy, though. All it needs is a good
exception-handling mechanism to be ready to take on all comers.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.
From: bert@LET.RUG.NL (Bert Bos)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Non-Proportional font
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:57:51 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

In article <00117.2804162960.10272@faith.twu.ca>, you write:

>    In writing text materials for computing science, I like to present
> programs in a non-proportional font.  Courier looks terrible, however, and I
> have not seen anthing that looks much better.  (I like Bookman for the main
> text, BTW.) The font should have a good distinguished bold and be very
> legible.  It must be available for the Macintosh.  What are your
> recommendations?  Please let me know whether your suggestion is:
> (1) in Type 1 or TrueType
> (2) general characteristics (serif, sans-serif, narrow or ??)
> (3) commercial, freeware, or shareware (how much where applicable)
> (4) where available

Have you tried WEB? It is a sort of preprocessor for TeX (and for the compiler,
 if the presented material is a complete program). So if you know TeX, WEB is
 easy to learn. It allows you to mix text and programs. The programs are
 automatically pretty-printed by TeX-macros that WEB inserts. Typically,
 reserved words are bold, identifiers are in italics, but you can easily change
 that. The original WEB has a pretty-printer for Pascal, but there should be a
 version for Modula as well. I have created one for Oberon, with the help of the
 SpiderWEB package. As to the font: TeX normally uses the Computer Modern family
 (bitmapped, serifed, free), but PostScript fonts work very well, too.

The drawback, of course, is that it is quite a distance from text entry to final
 print. The text is converted to TeX by WEB, the TeX text is converted to DVI by
 TeX, and DVI is printed or previewed, probably via PostScript. And only then do
 you see how it really looks. But for a computer scientist, that way of working
 is probably second nature.

Bert
From: g_dotzel@tron.gun.de (Guenter Dotzel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Real Change!
Organization: TRON Public Mailbox, Neurath, Germany
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:55:00 +0100

\CONCERNED.\CITIZEN%PUDDLE.FIDONET.ORG@USENET.ZER wrote on Mon, 11-02-1992 at 02:18 h
under the subject 'Real Change!':

>     RRRR   OOOOO  SSSSS  SSSSS      PPPP   EEEEE  RRRR   OOOOO  TTTTT 
>     R   R  O   O  S      S          P   P  E      R   R  O   O    T
>     RRRR   O   O  SSSSS  SSSSS      PPPP   EEEE   RRRR   O   O    T
>     R  R   O   O      S      S      P      E      R  R   O   O    T
>     R   R  OOOOO  SSSSS  SSSSS      P      EEEEE  R   R  OOOOO    T
> 

I'd rather go for :-)

               __________
              /_______  /\ERBERUS ________
              \______/ / /       / ____   \BERON________
                 ___/ /_/       / / ___\  /\   / ______/\
                /__  __/\      / / /   / / /  / /\_____\/LUB
                \_/ /\_\/     / / /   / / /  / / /
                 / /_/____   /  \/___/ / /  / /_/____
                /_________/\ \________/ /  /________/\
                \_________\/  \_______\/   \________\/

Originated by T.IGRACKI@BAMP.ZER

your posting arrived to late. I got it in 06-Nov-1992. 
At this time, Clint Eastwood was already elected. Hope he'll fix your troubles.

Guenter 8-)=

Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: MOD21325@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de (Carsten Kemper, Modula)
Subject: Re: multiple implementations
Summary: Modula-2 for AMIGA
Reply-To: MOD21325@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de
Organization: RVS, Universitaet Hannover, Germany
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:58:37 GMT

I am searching for a Modula-2 Compiler/linker/editor for the amiga!!
If you own one, put in this net, ok???
bye...../


Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: MOD11489@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de (Jens Niemeyer, Modula)
Subject: Re: multiple implementations
Reply-To: MOD11489@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de
Organization: RVS, Universitaet Hannover, Germany
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:03:38 GMT

Hey you, I'm sitting in front of a SUN terminal and thinking "Oh what a shit"..
it's mutch better to talk in NIKLAUS WITH'S old language PASCAL than this...
What do You think....   Call me Jens Niemeyer , University of Hannover GER
From: zancanel@INF.UFRGS.BR ("", Luis Carlos Zancanella)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re:  PARALLAXIS: New Tools
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:43:54 GMT
Reply-To: Modula2 List <INFO-M2%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Oi Ladislau!

Ja conhecia o mail sobre parallaxis, estamos com um bolsista
trabalhando em cima dele, obrigado.

Zancanella.
From: Hubert.Mock@p1.f67.n246.z2.fidonet.org (Hubert Mock)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: executing from within a modula-program
Date: 3 Nov 92 03:26:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: puddle.16490.2AFB1912
Organization: FidoNet node 2:246/67.1 - TELEPOINT BBS, Bad Woerishofen

Hi Ronald,
 > I use Topspeed modula 3.1 and had a problem in my last program. Does
 > anyone know how Ii can execute another program from a modula program so
 > that this modula program is removed from memory (the program is stopped
 > and so may be removed from memory). This program is a menusystem that
 > executes other programs. If i choose a program the program must execute
 > it and remove the modula program. Thus the problem is how i can do this
 > !! Please answer if you know it. Very much obliged...

The easiest solution would be if you leave your menusystem-program with setting different errorlevels. In a batchfile you can start other programs depending on the errorlevel.

I hope this will solve your problem.

Servus,
          Hubert


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From: sakkinen@jyu.fi (Markku Sakkinen)
Subject: Re: mail delivery error
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:23:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.134940.19557@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> larry@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Larry Maturo) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.102409.12183@jyu.fi> sakkinen@jyu.fi (Markku Sakkinen) writes:
>> ...
>>That has obviously been the main reason for eliminating enumerations.
>>And even this rationale is very weak.  Only record types can be extended
>>in Oberon, not atomic types nor arrays.
>>
>Enumerations are often used as the discriminent in variant records.  In Oberon
>you declare different records that are extensions of a common record.  You also
>delcare a different pointer type to each one and the type name of the pointer
>takes the place of the enumeration so you get the effect of enumerations, but
>it's extendable over module boundries.  Pretty neat!

That's only one of the many useful purposes of enumerations!
Furthermore, Oberon's type extensions cannot do all the things
that are possible with tagged variant records (and vice versa).
With variant records, you can change the variant of the object itself.
With type extensions, you can only make a pointer point at an object
of another related type:  that does not affect the original object
nor any other pointers to it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Markku Sakkinen (sakkinen@jytko.jyu.fi)
       SAKKINEN@FINJYU.bitnet (alternative network address)
Department of Computer Science and Information Systems
University of Jyvaskyla (a's with umlauts)
PL 35
SF-40351 Jyvaskyla (umlauts again)
Finland
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: Wen.Rolland@f116.n242.z1.fidonet.org (Wen Rolland)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Documentation..!
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 17:28:12 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:242/116 - Micro-Plus, St-Jerome PQ

Hello. I would like to know where I can get information or documentation
on FST Modula-2 ver.3 ? I'm reading the documentation the gave with it 
but the seem to think I already know half of everything then are explaining!
I have programmed a bit in "TC" but never in PASCAL. If I register will they 
send me documentation??? 

Thanks Dudes, Be Cool!
                     
                       Wen Rolland



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From: Nick.Bhanji@f40.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Nick Bhanji)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: Modula Usage in CS1?
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 20:54:04 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/40 - TechTalk, Calgary Alta

Here in Calgary, Mount Royal College, uses Modula-2 as CS2, and CS
3, and From what I have heard, so does University Of Calgary, but not sure for which year


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Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
From: labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach)
Subject: Re: Modula Usage in CS1?
Originator: labach@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:47:56 GMT
Organization: The Bobby Jurasin Fan Club

In article <16875.2AFC20C7@puddle.fidonet.org>
Nick.Bhanji@f40.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Nick Bhanji) writes: 

   Here in Calgary, Mount Royal College, uses Modula-2 as CS2, and CS 3,
   and From what I have heard, so does University Of Calgary, but not
   sure for which year

The U of Calgary uses it for second year CS, but this is the last year
that it'll be taught.

- terry -
...legitimizing my job by finally getting the CS degree...
  ======================================================================
  Terry Labach                                    labach@acs.ucalgary.ca
  Programmer/Analyst                              terry@ensu.ucalgary.ca
  Department of Geomatics Engineering    Proudly stamping out FORTRAN in
  University of Calgary                  the Wonderful World of Science!
From: apj@beldin.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: executing from within a modula-program
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:12:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Nov12.101226.10318
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Mark A. Morrell (mgmam@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) wrote:
:  > I use Topspeed modula 3.1 and had a problem in my last program. Does
:  > anyone know how Ii can execute another program from a modula program so
: 
: This is a procedure which stuffs a character into the keyboard buffer,
: and may be of use to you.  Stuff the buffer, then exit your program.
: 
  [stuff deleted]

That's not one of the better ways of doing it.  TopSpeed supplies an
Execute procedure in Lib if I remember correctly.  They've actuallt
got two flavours, Execute and ExecuteCmd.  The former can only be used
to execute binaries (ie. .COM or .EXE files) and the latter is passed
a complete DOS commandline (like C's system command) which is then
executed under COMMAND.COM (actually %COMSPEC) so that you can also
run batch files.  The easiest way to locate it in the libaries is to
type it in the editor, put the cursor over it and hit F1.

Andries
***********************************************************************
*       /|~~\ * APJ Dippenaar        * "If you wanna make the world a *
*     /__|__/ * apj@beldin.sun.ac.za *  better place, take a look at  *
*   /    |    * Univ of Stellenbosch *  yourself and make a change."  *
* /   \__|    * South Africa         *             -- Michael Jackson *
***********************************************************************
From: yeung@reed.edu (Woodrow Yeung)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Wanted: Mac Programmers
Date: 7 Nov 92 08:57:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov7.085751.1194
Distribution: usa
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

Hi,

I'm looking for a few programmers familiar with the Macintosh and willing
to relocate to the Pacific Northwest.  Will consider PC and UNIX programmers.

Areas of expertise needed include query processing (SQL, QBE), programming
language interpreters, Mac user interface.  Object oriented programming
experience (Smalltalk, Object Pascal or Objective C) a definite plus.  Will
be working under MPW.

Interested parties please send email or call.

Woody Yeung
(503) 697-9351
yeung@reed.edu
From: Jai.Braatz@p1.f401.n208.z1.fidonet.org (Jai Braatz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: StonyBrook Modula Updates ?????
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:30:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: puddle.18948.2B0460F5
Organization: FidoNet node 1:208/401.1 - Bertha Board, Manteca CA

In a message to Reiner B. Nix <24 Oct 92  10:09> Jon Guthrie wrote:

 >>Does anybody know something about a new version of the compiler?

 JG> The next version should be in beta-test by now.  Some six weeks ago, I
 JG> called Stony Brook and they said that their next release was being
 JG> prepared for beta.

Where can I purchase a copy of this (even if it's not the new version expected out?)

Jai


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From: John.Mcmonagle@f590.n139.z1.fidonet.org (John Mcmonagle)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Linking JPI M2 to MicroSoft C .OBJ
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:37:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: puddle.18376.2B02109B
Organization: FidoNet node 1:139/590 - PMI BBS, Green Bay WI


 MAM> I'm trying to link JPI Modula-2 to an object file which was written with
 MAM> Microsoft C.  I don't have the source to the object file, or anything
 MAM> useful except the names of the procedures included.  I've tried wading
 MAM> throught the JPI documentation to try to find which pragmas I need in
 MAM> order to make the link work, but I haven't quite been able to do it.  I
 MAM> was hoping someone out on the nets would be able to help me out.

The following is from a definition  module that interfaces to a MSC library in the large model.

(*# module(implementation=>off, init_code=>off)                               *)

DEFINITION MODULE MW;


(*# data(near_ptr => off),
    call(o_a_copy => off, o_a_size => off, c_conv => on, near_call => off,
    reg_saved => (si, di, ds, st1, st2), reg_param => ()),
    name(prefix => c)
  *)

Hope this helps. 
I'm not really that much of an expert at those pragmas. 
One other thing that could cause problems is  the TopSpeed linker may not like some things in msc obj's, but at least Sean Wilson at the Clarion US office has ways to fix most possible problems. Clarion US
303-785-4556 support
303-946-1650 fax

On an unrelated matter the PMI BBS number has been changed. PMI 
box 8402 
Green Bay WI 54308
414-468-6040 voice
414-465-0464 fax
414-465-1656 bbs


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From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: mail delivery error
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:40:23 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: thutt@MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV's message of 9 Nov 92 15:22:39 GMT

In article <9211091022.A01745@MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV> thutt@MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV (thutt) writes:

      Oberon removes all of the extraneous features of Modula-2, cleans up the
      language
      [deleted]

      1) Removal of superfluous items:
         [deleted]
	 The SET type is now equivalent to the M-2 BITSET. It is of
	 an implementation dependant size (usually at least 32 bits).

If you ask me (and of course you didn't :-), SET should have been
dropped.  What is the point of having a BITSET (and why isn't it
called that if that is what it is?) with an implementation defined
size?  Why is this any better than having a MODULE based around BIT
... etc. which achieves the same effect?  (Also why is there no
operation to directly set a bit?)  If your wondering what the
difference is in the end: nothing much as far as functionallity goes,
the difference is by using a modules, superfluous items is kept out of
the syntax.

bevan
From: mgmam@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Mark A. Morrell)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula2
Subject: Re: executing from within a modula-program
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:28:34 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network


 > I use Topspeed modula 3.1 and had a problem in my last program. Does
 > anyone know how Ii can execute another program from a modula program so

This is a procedure which stuffs a character into the keyboard buffer,
and may be of use to you.  Stuff the buffer, then exit your program.

PROCEDURE Stuff( c : CHAR );
VAR
   R : SYSTEM.Registers;
BEGIN
    R.AH := 05H;
    R.CL := c;
    R.CH := 0;
    Lib.Intr( R, 16H );
END Stuff;

The keyboard buffer will only hold around 16 characters, so you can't
overdo it...
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark A. Morrell     Disclaimer:  _I_ probably don't even believe it.
Literary Reference:  The introduction to Cervantes' Don Quixote.