HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: somasun@server.uwindsor.ca (SUNDHAR SOMA             )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Ancient Tamilz mathematicians ?
Keywords: Tamilz, mathematics...
Date: 12 Aug 1992 20:18:46 GMT

Hi folks,
       I was following the interesting discussion on Tamilz words for 
 mathematics . Its not uncommon in any texts in the History of Mathematics
 to include a chapter on the ancient Hindu Mathematics ( For some reason
 Indian Mathematics is specified as Hindu Mathematics and Arabic as Moslem )
 Though there's a mention of Aryabhatta(s) , Bhaskara , ... of the Northern
 part and a few ( varahamihra ?? or Mahavira ?? ) from Mysore ( southern part)
 I don't remember of seeing any contributions from ancient Tamils .
 (All the mention are about literature in Sanskrit and not any other languages)
 Being a contemporary with the Guptas ,  Mauriyas , one can expect something
 should have come out from Tamils too , right? 
 Ramanujan is quite a Modern Mathematician .

 Could anyone on this net can provide more information on the contributions
 of ancient Tamilz to Mathematics ( or its high time to make it more general 
 to other sciences / engineering  ? ) . Maybe the existence of any such 
 literature will throw some light on the Tamil words for the modern technology.

 -Somasundhar.V.

       ---  NaLLa ninaivugaL NaMMai VAzhavaikindrana  ---
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A THREAT from a boneless tiger in the net
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:37:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



In article <Bt9LA1.KLq@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jsg9939@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Sreedhar ) writes...
>thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT) writes:
> 
> 
>>I received the following threat from one spineless tiger in the net who does
>>not have guts to post his view in the net and sent me e-mail
> 
> 
>>==============================================================================
> 
>>From:   "LTTE@surya.waterloo.edu" 19-AUG-1992 12:07:34.52
> 
>>LTTE will kill all the Brahmins.
> 
> 
>>% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
>>% Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA07807; Wed, 19 Aug 92 09:07:27 -0700
>>% Received: from surya.uwaterloo.ca by math.uwaterloo.ca with SMTPid <AA03464>; Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:07:21 -0400
>>% Received: from wam.umd.edu by surya.waterloo.edu.bedinet (4.1/SMI-4.1)id AA29998; Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:05:15 EST
>>% Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:05:00 EST
>>% From: LTTE@surya.waterloo.edu
>>% Message-Id: <9208191705.AA29998@surya.waterloo.edu.bedinet>
>>% Apparently-To: mims::thiyagarajan
> 
> 
>This is simply outrageous. And cause for serious concern. 
>All right-thinking people should condemn such atrocities.
> 
>Has the guy come to waterloo for education or for terrorism?!
>If such things continue, we must notify the university and the
>police.
> 
>-Sreedhar
> 

The self-proclaimed commanders of the net like Mr. Sundara Pandian, Mr Krishna
Raj will not condemn this. They condemn only if you write against Mr Vishnu's
views. What a double standard?

By the way I notice too many terrorist tigers in waterloo? Is it just a
coincedence or a qualification to enter?

Whoever this surya is, he is a real coward

RT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala SWAMINATHAN)
Subject: Re: On `vaaymai'
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 01:20:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.111342.89843@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> cen466p@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (S. Parthasarhathy) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.164401.11232@wuecl.wustl.edu>, sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>>>
>>>	We have had raging debates over the 'truth' and 'what is right'
>>>	and who was 'correct'. Here is something to ponder about :

[[[[ the puzzle(?) deleted ]]]]

vAimai enappaduvathu yAthenin yAthonRum
theemai ilAtha cholal. (ThiruvaLLuvar)

the word ****yAthonRum**** is the key.
yAthonRum theemail ilAtha == without the slightest taint of EVIL.

>
>>  VaLLuvar says that `vaaymai' is really speaking without
>>  harming any living being. [ For an elegant translation,
>>  please ask Rengaswamy Rajamanickam. He stopped posting
>>  kuRaL translations nowadays. ]
>>      I don't know of any word in English or Sanskrit 
>>  meaning the `vaaymai' defined by VaLLuvar. `Truth' or
>>  `Sathya' don't exactly mean `vaaymai'. 
>
>what would happen if police chasing a murderer (instead of butcher chasing
                                       ^^^^^^^^
>a cow). this makes the scenario more complex to deal with. 
>
>if the person shows the wrong path to the police is a mistake both morally 
>and legally. but according the above kuRaL, he is right. 
>
>May be vaLLuvar did not anticipate (or atleast did not write this kuRaL for)

HE DID!!!!!!
Look at these two verses!

kolaiyin kodiyArai vEn^thoRuththal paingkUz
kaLai kattathanodu nEr

	Punishing the wicked with death is like removing weeds
	the cornfield.

ithu vEn^thanukku enRAlum, anaivarukkum pothuvAna vithithAn..
pinbu ithE uvamai koNdu VaLLuvar  pirithumozhikiRAr ..

iLaithAga muLmaram kolga; kaLaiyun^r
kaikollum kAzththa idaththu

	Fell down the thorn trees while yet they are young; for
	when they are overgrown they will themselves harm the
	hand that attempt to fell them.

So a just punishment is in order for the "murderer" and if he does not
show the right way to the cops then he is not helping the society
and his "sol" is not  yAthonRum theemai ilAthathu.

S_Bala

>these kinda scenarios. May be "yathorkkum" should be interpreted as the society
>or majority of the people in the society, which means showing the right
>direction does not violate the kuRaL/morality/law. 
>
>Paarthaa
>ChemEngg
>
>Law may be right. Does not mean it is justice. 


Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: srini@engin.umich.edu (Srinivasan Pichumani)
Subject: Sati, Manu-smrti, Dated books etc (was Re: Sati)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:19:33 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug19.194345.28252@wuecl.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>In article <MANI.92Aug19120031@aix.Berkeley.EDU> mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.155510.24518@wuecl.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>>    The first comment is very male-chauvinistic. In Brahminism,
>>    if one's wife dies, he is not burned with his wife. But,
>>    if one's husband dies, she is burned ( or forced to be
>>    burned ) alongwith her husband.
>>
>>So please, attack the tradition, but don't smear an entire
>>community at the same time! Our society has been male
>>chauvinistic in its entireity, not just in its brahmin section.
>>
>> Mani

> the Manu-dharma-sastra , a Brahministic work. A good question
> is whether sati is supported in Manu-dharma-sastra. It can
> be checked.
>                                                S.Pandian.
>                                        sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu

Prof.Wendy Doniger (she used to be known as Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty in her
earlier works) of the University of Chicago has translated the Manu Smrti
very recently and it has been published by Penguin books in paperback form.
She gave a talk on this subject at U of M a year ago.

On this very specific point of "Sati" and Manu, she mentioned that while 
Manu held a very male chauvinistic view of many other things in general,
there is no reference to this practice of widow-burning or an injunction
to that effect in the Manu-smrti.

--Srini.

ps: Sundara Pandian, in another article in response to Mani's posting,
you had quoted extensively from a book by V.Kanakasabhai. While it is
all well and good that you quoted him, you have to realize that his
book is considered quite dated by now; and has been superseded by much
more critical research. VK's book was written at a time of resurgent
Tamil nationalism, and his conclusions/comments reflect that. 

If you read the works of George Hart, Kamil Zvelebil, Kailasapathy,
Karthigesu Sivattambi, (all in English) you will realize that social
divisions, and categories of high/low, etc were as endemic to ancient
Tamil society as they were elsewhere -- this will cause much discomfort 
to the modern day Tamil chauvinists/rationalists etc.
But then, who ever accused them of scholarship???
From: rst@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (R. Sritharan)
Subject: Re: A THREAT from a boneless tiger in the net
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:12:03 GMT

In article <kat.714411041@sybok> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>In <Bt9LA1.KLq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jsg9939@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Sreedhar ) writes:
>
>>thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT) writes:
>
>
>>>I received the following threat from one spineless tiger in the net who does
>>>not have guts to post his view in the net and sent me e-mail
>
>
>>>==============================================================================
>
>>>From:   "LTTE@surya.waterloo.edu" 19-AUG-1992 12:07:34.52
>
>>>LTTE will kill all the Brahmins.
>
>
>
>>This is simply outrageous. And cause for serious concern. 
>>All right-thinking people should condemn such atrocities.
>
>>Has the guy come to waterloo for education or for terrorism?!
>>If such things continue, we must notify the university and the
>>police.
>
>>-Sreedhar
>    Mr. Vishnu is a very well respected person in Waterloo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>He is a A+ student doing PhD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Who is a terrorist?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> guy who faked the mail. police, Indian police will
>do the best job.
>Call area code 011-91-44-9111111111111111111111.
>
>Indian police has a special task force that comes
>to Purdue to help people who are scared at thier own
>will and pleasure.
>
>KK
>
>. 
>
>KK 

Wait a minute here, Mr. KK. I do not see any reference to
Mr. Vishnu in this at all until you brought up his name. 
Are you suggesting that he may have sent this mail ? 
I would like to know the resaon behind your linking him
to this.

If not, I would like to know why you are pouring out the
credentials of Mr. Vishnu on the net ?

-- rst
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: vak@infonode.ingr.com (Vansantha Kandasamy)
Subject: Re: A SIMILARITY
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:30:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.001658.13038@ccu.umanitoba.ca> sriniva@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Rangarajan Srinivasan) writes:
>Dear netters,
>
  [comparison between SL tamils and FC south Indians deleted]
>
>	So when the FC people in T.N. could bear and
>live with the reservation policy etc., why did our 
>srilankan brothers took weapons in their hand?
>May be, some knowledgeable netters would be able to
>throw some light on this query?
>
>sri
>

    The Tamils had proposed a federal system of govt in SL,  just as in
India, for a while after independence, but the Sinhala dominated SL govt
would  not give in.   Descrimination on jobs started with the Sinhala
only act in the late '50's, but descrimination in higher education did
not start until 1970.  At that time we had only one school of
engineering which admitted 150 students annually.   In 1970, when the
Ministry of Education first made the freshman list, about 110 of the 150
were Tamils. (There would have been 40 students from just 2 schools in
Jaffna.)   This became a big issue and the SL govt decided to adopt a
quota system.   From then on it became clear to many Tamil youth that
their future in a unified SL was not very bright.
   
    In 1972 SL adopted a new constitution and became a republic.   The
Tamil politicians tried in vain to get a federal system.   The TULF
platform in 1977 called for the formation of TE and the voters (Tamil)
were told that a vote for TULF was a vote for TE.   (I now wonder if
they really had any plan of action.   Did they think that the SL govt
was going to give them TE in a silver platter ?)

    The Tiger movement started in the mid 70's.  They trained in the
jungles of Vanni.   They got their money from robbing banks in the
peninsula.   Things got a little bad after the '77 riots but not too
bad.   The '83 riots were the turning point.

    The riots were not the real cause, but acted like catalists.   I am
saying that because if the riots were the cause for the cry for TE, 
then the Tamils who lived in Sinhala dominated areas would have joined
the movement in droves.  But this is not the case.  In fact many Tamils
who lived in Colombo and other non-Tamil parts of the country actually
blamed the TULF and the Tigers for the riots.   It is the Tamil youth
from the Tamil areas who wanted TE most.   If you look at the economic
opportunities available in the Tamil areas you'll understand why.  
There was practically no major industrialization in these areas.   One
has to go to Colombo if one wanted a good job.   If one does not have a
professional degree,  one has to have the right contacts and must be
fluent in English or Sinhala to get a good job in Colombo.   For one
educated in the Swabasha (Mother tongue) system,  it was not easy.  
What does one expect when there is a large group of unemployed youth
without much hope for the future ?

    I hope I have answered your question without deviating much.

 - Vasantha Kandasamy
From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Subject: Re: Please be accurate to avoid flame wars.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:04:47 GMT
Distribution: world 

In article <Bt6x0K.Cpw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu) writes:

>ACtivities. I know that there is some reservation system for each 
>district in TN to get admitted into professional colleges. So a student
>with low marks (but with eligibility) will get admission if he holds 
>higher rank in his native district. This is mainly to give equal/uniform
>chances/treatment for all district people ( still there is discrimination
>among districts). 
	
	You are right. In arts colleges there is no such reservation, but
	there is a bonus mark added to the aggregate for the candidates of
	the native districts. This is to avoid cross migration of students
	across the districts and thereby reduce the rush for the hostels.
	More than this the poor students who can not afford to join hostels
	get benefitted by getting in the local colleges.    
>
>                 If the admission is based on merit system then I am pretty 
>sure that only and only city people (Madras,Coimbatore,Trichy,Madurai etc. 
>they have more/most/enough facilities in education industry) will enjoy this
>partial system. One should also give some oppotunity to village and labour
>class people to come up in their life. 
>
	This is true. Let me give an example:
	In the undivided North Arcot district only one college offered
	M.Sc. course in Physics. The nearest city where we could apply 
	is Madras where there are many PG colleges and too many UG colleges.
	For a student from Vellore or Cheyyar or Vaniyambadi it is not 
	as easy as for a student in Madras. There is hardly any library
	worth mentioning in this kind of small towns. We had to fully
	depend on 'class notes' or Manickavasagam Pillai, Ramamurthy
	kind of text books which are hardly better than 'market notes'.
>
>
>
>Guindian,
>C.RATHINAVELU
>
>"Vadhiyarai Kakai Pidithu Soppu Pottal Yaru Vendumanalum Madhippen Perralam".
>
	This is very much true in the so called autonomous colleges including
	Guindy. I am a Guindian (Science faculty). Marks in multiples of
	5 or 10 are common. One of my classmates revolted and exposed a
	a teacher who gave final marks like this, without correcting answere
	papers and assignments. The marks were not random and had very clear
	urban/rural and caste relation.  'Madrasi's are experts in this
	technique. 

M. Sundaramoorthy
sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1045 soc.culture.indian:28461
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Njan)
Subject: Re: Sex Ratio, Population growth
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:27:58 GMT


In article <Aug.14.17.43.31.1992.23905@paul.rutgers.edu> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>
>How did Kerala end up with the highest population density? Maybe you
>had your spell of lack of family planning. Now it is the turn of
>north Indians.

You are not only dumb, but ignorant as well... Kerala ALWAYS had
population growth rate less than all India rate. It was the north
Indian run central govt who didn't take family planning seriously 
till the seventies... after which Kerala showed remarkable decrease
in population growth... On the other hand, the North Indians, who
always had a high population growth rate, continue to do so even
after family planning became so important.

>Does it bother you that Madhya Pradesh (my state), with maybe 10 times
>the area of Kerala has about 4 times the seats?

You are dumb beyond belief!!! Is that how you vote in MP, depending
upon how much land you have? No wonder the poor people in North
India have no say in politics... afterall, they don't own land means
means NO VOTE!!!

>Maybe so. But remember that with such a high population density, Keralites
>have migrated to all sorts of lands (including north India) to earn their

I don't have the time to go through all the points I made previously about
this, esp to educate idiots like you...

>livelihood there. So the rest of India (and World) has borne the brunt of
>population explosion in Kerala in the past. It was high time you reduced

By this reasoning, Japan must be the cause of all the problems in the
world!

>your population growth. Should have done so earlier. Then, Kerala would
>have started with 4 seats and increase it's share later so that you could
>feel good.

With idiots like you around, I'm feeling more and more ashamed to hold
an indian passport! I wish Kerala had one for a change...

Now I see why Sanjay Gandhi was right in doing what he did in the 
seventies... the only way to implement family planning in North
India is to cut their d**ks off!!!

>Sumitro

Njan
From: ganapath@plains.NoDak.edu (Prabhukumar Ganapathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: PLAYS BY MARINA
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:15:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19797
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


 I was trying to recollect PLAYS by Marina (yah! same person
 who writes THIRUTHALA PERMUAI as BARANEEDHARAN) published
 in TAMIL WEEKLIES (ie mostly VIKATAN)


 I am able to recollect the following

	1. Oor Vambu
	2. Thani Kudithanam
	3. Samiyarin Mamiyar
	4. Sadhu Mirandaal


	I am not sure about the last one of course. I could not
	recollect another story in which a woman who carries
	lunch to the office is the main character.


Anyone with better memory power ! !



PK
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re:ArupadaiVeedugal! Do not repeat the same thing!!!
From: mguruswami@vax1.umkc.edu (Murugavel Guruswami)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:51:48 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri-Kansas City

In article <1992Aug11.130406.1@vax1.umkc.edu> mguruswami@vax1.umkc.edu (Murugavel Guruswami) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.224737.23039@ms.uky.edu>, aras@ms.uky.edu (P. I. Arasu) writes:
>> I can recollect Tiruchendur, Palani, Swami Malai,
>> Thirutani as four of the six abodes of Murugan.
>> Can someone fillup the rest?
>> 
>> -arasu
>-- 
>I think it is - Thirupparamkundram and Maruthamalai. Some one correct me if I
>am wrong.
>
	In reply to this posting the following people sent postings making
a correction that one of them is not Maruthamalai but it is Pazhamuthircholai.

	Srinivasan Pichumani 	@ umich
	Bala Swaminathan 	@ wustl
	Natarajan Sureshbabu	@ JHU
	Madhu			@ DEC
	Ganesh Gopalakrihnan	@ UNT
	Meenakshi Sundaram	@ Syracuse

	Except for the first 3 persons eveyone else was saying the same thing
again and again. I see no point in saying the same thing again&again. It looks
as if you don't check if some one has replied to the posting or not. I feel
everbody should check if a reply has been made to a specific query/posting
before replying (unless you are going to say something different).

		!!!SAVE BANDWIDTH!!!.

Anbudan,

Murugavel Guruswami :-)


P.S: If you received a similar posting before this, please ignore it. I made
a correction to that posting and canceled it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Subject: Re: Ayirrankal Mandapams...
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:32:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.160600.29633@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> mathrubb@cse.fau.edu (Baski) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.130006.27516@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> madabusv@cse.fau.edu (Vasudhevan Madabushi) writes:
>>In article <15rek3INN6cc@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> udhi@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Udayan Subramanian) writes:
>>>
>>>       There is one in Kancheepuram Ekambaranathar Temple also!!
>>>
>>>-- Udayan Subramanian
>>
>>        There is one at the Little Kancheepuram "Varadharajar" Temple too!!!!!
>>
>>       There are so many other places in TN. Probably our friends could add
>>       on to this.
>>        
>>       Vasudhevan Madabushi
>
>  Well  I remember seeing one in Chidambaram Natarajar Temple. 
>   Bye
>  Baski

            
     There is one Ayirankaal mandapam in the Meenakshi Amman Temple
 in my home-city Madurai. ( Now there is a museum in this mandapam
 and you have to pay about 5-10 rupees as entrance fees to visit
 this mandapam. It is near Swaami Sannadhi. )
     One main attraction in this Ayirankaal mandapam is `musical
 pillars'. When you enter this mandapam, you will find two sets
 of seven pillars on your left and right sides. They are the
 `sa-ri-ga-ma-pa-da-ni' pillars. They produce the sound of the
 musical notes `sa', `ri', `ga',`ma',`pa',`da' and `ni', if you
 beat them with a stick. If I remember correct, one set of pillars
 is covered and only the set on the left side of the mandapam is
 open to public. Of course, there must be such musical pillars
 in other temples as well. I heard that there was one such set in
 the Tanjai Periya Koil ( Raja Raja Cholan ).
                                                        S.Pandian.
                                               sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: rags@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Raghavan Jayaraman)
Subject: AAA Rambam:- Today's Thukkada
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:31:49 GMT

Kettadum kETkAdadum, PAARthadum PAARKAdadum
-----------------------
A conversation:-

"Enna! Un paiyan SSLC-il mOOndruu thadavai faila? adu eppadi?"

"mudal thadavai muNNal irunda student-ai PAARthu ezhudinan. adanal fail"

"hmm"

"irandavadu thadavai pinnal irunda student-ai PAARthu ezhudinan. adanal
fail"

"moondravadu thadvai - enna examiner pidithu vittadal faila?"

"Illai! akkam pakkathil YArume illai. adanal fail"
----------------

"Yempa! En ellArum mount road-ai KNOkki kaiyil bread-odu odugirargal?"

"angu traffic-JAM enpadal"
------------

MAmiyAR:- [proudly says] "en marumagal samaithal kettu-kettu VAngi SApidalam"
NATThanar [jealous one] :-" Amam! uppu, pulli, KAram ellam kettu-kettu
VAngi  kalandu SApidara MAdiri irrukum"
-------------------

"VEgamai odi vandu EdO VAnginaYE. Enna Vanginai?

"MOOchu"
-------------
rest in next

Gigabyte

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil