From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Divine intervention
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:34:21 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Nov19.101226.13364@eng.cam.ac.uk> yt1@eng.cam.ac.uk (Y. Tremblay) writes:
>
>Anybody around here plays Runequest ?  
>
>I am in need of some help and a third party/more experienced opinion

	Oh, goody, a RuneQuest thread!  That'll make a nice switch from the
GURPS/Vampire flamewars (you'd think Vampire would do poorly in flamewars,
all things considered...).

>I just started playing it a month ago and I am looking for opinions about
>divine intervention.  First some general questions.  Sorry for the length.
>
>1:  When can you ask for a divine intervention ?
>
>    Do you need to be in a deseperate situation.  At the edge of death or
>    can you ask it in any risky situation.  I know the cost can be high if
>    one asks it anytime but _CAN_ he if he is willing to pay the POW cost.

	Well, you can DI (shorthand for "ask for Divine Intervention") pretty
much anytime you want to, although given the costs, you generally wait for
an extreme situation.  Also, initiates are limited to one attempt per week.
So, if you DI'ed for that extra point of INT yesterday, you better hope the
Thanatari doesn't take your head today.  Whether or not you have to actually
be conscious to DI is somewhat contended; I lean toward the view that you
can DI even if unconscious, or *very* freshly dead (like, for a strike rank).
Those who roll a d10 for DI aren't limited to the once per week, but they are
of course limited by their Pow.

	There are some magic items, such as slave bracelets, which will keep
an individual from contacting hir god, so these prevent DI.  Some people would
not allow you to DI in a temple to a non-associate deity, so a Wind Lord would
be on his own in a temple to Yelm, but I don't think the rules actively prohi-
bit this.

>2:  How long does it take.  (mechanics)
>
>    In a melee situation, how long does it take to ask for the help of 
>    your god.  Can you keep fighting (dodge, attack, parry, spell ? ) 
>    while asking for divine intervention.

	I've always played that DIing was a no-time action.  It doesn't take
a SR, and you can be doing something else while doing it; of course, usually
the only thing you are doing at the time is dying, so this doesn't come up 
too much.  Of course, if you DI after being killed, you do have to get up.
(your god will heal all damage you've taken, but he won't stand you on your
feet.  That you have to do yourself).

>3:  Effect of magic items 
>
>    If the character (or NPC ?) asking for divine intervention owns an item
>    posseding POW points and wich he can normally use the magic points.  Does
>    the POW of that item can be add to the one of the character to ask for 
>    divine intervention ?  And if yes (?!) are the lost POW from the character
>    or the item first ?  (an elf bow for example? any MP matrix ?)

	No, no, no, no and no.  Only personal POW counts.  Not even Pow from
a fetch, allied spirit or familiar counts.  Of course, if the spirit in 
question is the initiate of a god (allied spirits are), then it can attempt
to DI, with the normal initiate's restrictions.

>4:  Can you ask more than once in a given situation/time
>
>    If you were in a situation allowed in 1: (hopeless fight for example) asked
>    and failed to roll <= your POW.  I understand it means your God didn't 
>    hear you (or didn't bother :-).  Can a character try again during the same
>    fight ?  Next round ?!?  If not, the if a priest/initiate is captive
>    for months and wants to try to flee using divine intervention ?  Can he 
>    try only once ? each days/week/months/years ?

	Like I mentioned above, most initiates can attempt DI only once a week.
So, in your first example, well, you're on your own.  But, once the week has
passed, you are free to try again.  Most Runelords, who attempt DI on a d10,
don't have this restriction, and can DI as often as they feel they can spare
the POW.

>5:  What is a reasonable effect of a divine intervention ?
>
>    In the book they give three examples:  teleport up to ten human-sized 
>    creatures, raise one stat, resurrect (sp?) a dead.  Can it be offensive ?
>    ex: kill the five ones that are attacking me, (low powered one: make them
>    fall inconcious (I'll be able to finish the job *grin*))  Very dependant
>    of the deity :  the earth deity could open a hole in wich the foes would
>    fall but the sea/forest deity could do nothing if you are not in
>    sea/forest ?

	It is central to Gloranthan mythology that the gods not interfere in the
doings of those on the mundane plane.  There are certain restricted circum-
stances in which they may, such as granting divine magic, or answering divina-
tions.  DI is another such.  However, a deity may only help at a worshipper's
behest, and then may not affect anyone unwillingly.  Thus, asking your god to
strike your enemies down won't do you any good.  The gods are sworn to uphold
this pact (called the Great Compromise), and will not violate it, so even in
the case of an earth deity opening up a hole to swallow your enemies, well,
don't count on it.

	I've seen DI allow the following effects:

	Teleport up to 10 *willing* human-sized beings, with their equipment
(not including seige engines, obviously).

	Heal all physical damage (including to locations and general hit point
damage; whether it heals disease or drained stats is up to your interpreta-
tion).

	Restore all individual magic points (seems trivial, could be com-
bined with healing above).

	Raise *one* stat *one* point (this may only be done once, ever).

	You could probably get your god to duplicate the effects of any
of hir non-offensive divine magic with a DI as well.  Other effects should
be judged with comparisons to these above.

	It has been confirmed by Greg Stafford at the Convulsion of a Trillion
Tentacles that DI will *not* remove a chaos taint.

>6:  What about non-beleivers in the party ?
>
>    Deities and priests are known for hating sorcerer.  If an initiate wished
>    to be teleported to a safe place with his friends/party, would the god
>    accept totally ? refuse totally cause there is non-beleivers ? or simply
>    teleport only the believers and leave the rest of the party there ?

	Well, that would depend on the god.  If it were a god that had some
sense of honor, such as Humakt, then they would probably go along with it.
If it's Eurmal (trickster), all bets are off.  He might leave them there, he
might leave their clothes behind.

	The more important question to ask here is, why are this followers of
gods going around with sorcerors?  They should view them with at least great
distrust as well.

>I have an opinion about most of these questions the problem is that the players
>don't agree with me.  So I am looking for some more opinion since we may all
>be biaised.  FYI the rules I have are RQ Deluxe edition and using Glorantha 
>Gods.
>
>I may post later a description of the situation that lead to the argument
>but I would like some general answers beforehand.
>
>Thanks in advance

	Hope this helped.

>Yannick
>yt1@eng.cam.ac.uk
--
gharris@jade.tufts.edu          
George W. Harris              	"He'd kill us if he had the chance."  
Dept. of Mathematics            
Tufts University              			The Conversation