From: nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 in PBS and CBS
Organization: U of Chicago, SSPPCC
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:18:29 GMT

In article <BxEpxs.C28@access.digex.com> bruceg@access.digex.com (Bruce Garrett) writes:
>  nelshou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) avers:
>
> > So far, no _responsible_ person on either side of this argument has
> > mentioned going to war.  If this is intended as a sly threat, give it your
> > best shot.  You'll be amazed at the backlash against your cause.
>
>       Funny...I heard a LOT of talk about a Cultural War at the Republican
>Convention.  Oh...that was supposed to be a metaphor...right...?
>
>       Actually, for a lot of us it =has= become a war pal.  People DIED in 
>Oregon when they put question 9 on the ballot.  People are getting clubbed and
>shot all over this country just for being homosexual in record numbers.
>Question: what would =You= do under those circumstances:
>
>        a) Make sure you knew how to pass for straight before you stepped
>           outside.
>        b) Learn how to dodge incoming baseball bats, bricks, bullets...
>        c) Choose between a .45 ACP (good concealablity, good firepower)
>           or a Smith & Wesson Model 25 (more reliable, accepts wide variety
>           of slug designs).
>

Do whatever you have to do to avoid being beaten up.  Had the Oregon law
passed it would have changed nothing.  

>       I hear our good friends in the Christian Coalition are planning to 
>bring their Oregon show to a few more states to see how well it plays.  I hope
>to have settled "c" above for myself before they open in Maryland...
>
> > Did anyone in this conversation ever mention puting homosexuals in jail?!?
>
>       But....surely....any attempt to remove sodomy laws from the books will
>result in an increase in homosexual behavior which will in turn bring about
>the prompt extermination of the human race.  We don't want to   Promote  
>homosexuality by striking those laws down do we...?

I have no problem with removing sodomy laws from the books.  Never have.
Again this shows that people only hear (or read) what they want to. 
>
>       Here's a real question:  Do you seriously expect that the voting
>population of any state will be inclined to see us as anything other then a
>threat to their existence so long as we are kept isolated and invisible by
>other laws which you so heartily approve of?  Will they strike down their
>sodomy laws when all they know about homosexuality is what they are allowed
>to hear from bigots?  Will juries treat us fairly if all they know about a
>homosexual defendant is what they've been told by those that hate us?  There
>is a cause and effect between the isolation you wish to impose upon us and
>the jail cell...or the prison camp.  If you think it's possible to have a 
>decent and stable society with, oh, just a little   prudent   penning off of
>certain undesirables then I recommend a trek to your nearest holocaust
>museum.
>

Self rightious pap.  I've been arguing that a society has the right
to reasonably discourage gay behavior by not institutionalizing it.
And that there are reasonable concerns about gay adoptions and about the way 
homosexuality is presented in public schools.  Whine on if you like.

> > I will continue to speak my mind, of course, and the direction we take
> > as a society will continue to be as much my business as it is yours.
>
>       Except that we will have to live under the burden of the discrimination
>that you want to keep legal.  But, yes, we will =all= have to live with the
>torn and fragmented society of your dreams.

Torn and fragmented because we draw reasonable distinctions between
homosexual and heterosexual behavior?  I doubt it.  Really.
>
>
Roger


From: Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com