From: mark@cs.hw.ac.uk (Mark Riordan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Separation vs. integration (Was Re: The European Community Blackmailed by Greece)
Date: 25 Jul 92 14:57:58 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Jul23.010149.7899@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <tahonen.26@katk.Helsinki.FI>, tahonen@katk.Helsinki.FI (Timo
>Ahonen) writes:
>
>|>independent nations. According to your logic Eire should never have 
>|>separated from Britain. Should she now rejoin the UK?
>
>She did. Eire joined the EC and has now given to Brussels control over a
>large slice of ecconomic and social policy.

This piece here confused in itself but making sense in 
the light of a previous posting which reckoned that
Ireland has always and will always depend on the England
for its economic survival I found quite annoying.

I would be quite keen to see a balance sheet of money transfers
between the UK and Ireland. At least one that would attempt to
portray the whole picture. Items such as the following might be 
included:

1) Costs incurred by Ireland as a result of Situation in NI.

2) Profits gained by British Industrial concerns in Ireland
due to Irelands commitment to free and open trade in the EC.
For which as with everything in this world we expect a payback.

3) The above industries having had a large unfair advantage due
to Ireland's economy having been run for centuries for the benifit
of the UK.

4) Costs of providing education for people who move to the
UK to work.

5) Accumulated wealth gained from exploitation of Ireland in the
past which has provided a lot of capital to allow the industries
mentioned above to expand at the expense of Irish Industry.

6) Continuing payment of ground rents to members of the British
gentry for land gained by pretty dubious means.

I am sure others exist.

As is the case with the balance sheet between the northern and
southern hemispheres and those between Scotland and England the 
figures often used hide a multitude.

The poster may be close to a truth in that there is a large
element of interdependence which the seperation in 1921 does not
reflect. I would remind him though that for many years the Irish
campaigned, largely peacefully, for greater autonomy within the union.
Only when that was denied did Ireland finally break away.

I apologise if there is an element of this which gives anyone a feeling
of being "brit-bashed", I assure you this is only intended if you
believe Irish people deserve a "fair crack of the whip" literally
rather than metaphorically.

>
>|>You cannot just expect that after the same length of suppression, now in the 
>|>midst of poverty and national re-discovery those nations would be 
>|>immediately ready for the same kind of integration and mutual trust as in 
>|>the West. 
>
>National rediscovery? What prey is that? 

Common Sense> Oh no Mark you said you'd stop after the first bit.

Mark> Oh shut up you, I'm on a roll

National Rediscovery is a process whereby a people denied 
effective control over their lives and too busy surviving to
think too much on culture, heritage etc. come to realise that
they are a people who have contributed and will contribute in
the future a lot to the betterment of mankind. They suddenly
feel they can do it and no longer need the helping hand of some
overlord to hold their hands. Its great. IMHO.


>Phill Hallam-Baker

MARK
-- 
| JANET:    mark@uk.ac.hw.cs   Mark Riordan, Rm G21, Computer Science Dept  |
| Internet: mark@cs.hw.ac.uk   Heriot-Watt University, Riccarton Campus,    |
|                              Edinburgh, Scotland.  (031)449-5111 x4172    |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic