From: sunder@grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: bombay riots
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:53:51 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: grusin.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <1iss1hINN5bj@mozz.unh.edu>, sja@bofur.unh.edu (Sameer J Apte) writes:
|> - srinivas sunder writes 
|> 
|> -The latest UPI report says that so far 183 people are dead in Bombay. When you
|> -include Ahmedabad, the total is 244. A top police official, who asked to remain
|> -unidentified, said that this was not a "Hindu-Muslim" conflict, but an inter-gang 
|> -problem. How does that explain Ahmedabad? The reality is that it is both.
|> -If there were no Hindu-Muslim conflicts, the gangs could not take the opportunity
|> -to loot, pillage and burn and blame them on communal tensions.
|> 
|> -In Ahmedabad, most of the violence is in the Muslim-neighborhood. Three people
|> -burnt to death on Sunday and a house set ablaze. 4 more people reported stabbed
|> -in street-fighting.
|> 
|> -It has now spread from the predominantly Muslim neighbourhoods to the rest of
|> -the city, affecting places like Matunga, Dadar, "the fashionable beach-side 
|> -districts" (Juhu?), and Chembur.
|> 
|> -The CM says that now, "Hindus are killing Hindus." There are now attacks on the
|> 
|> 	i can't imagine CM of maharashtra making such statements , which
|> 	directly involves name of some religion . so it will be better , if you 
|> 	check your sources ....

Well, UPI reported that he said precisely that. Check out the report posted by
Shyamala P. later yesterday.

|> 
|> -Tamil community in Bombay (that must explain Matunga and Chembur). I thought
|> -that the Shiv Sena had given up its anti-South animus some time back. But the
|> 
|> 	the whole thing looks like your own imagination , do you think that 
|> 	only tamils leave in the above mentioned areas , both the areas 
|> 	are equally crowded with all the communities including 
|> 	maharashtrians , gujjus , and other southies . the statement that
|> 	you have made inside the parentheses is random .

Er... if it is anybody's imagination, it must be that of the UPI folks. As
for the rest of your para, you are free to draw your own inferences from what
I wrote. If you happen to think that my mentioning the two localities having
a lot of Tamils in them necessarily precludes the existence of other communities,
that's your problem, not mine.

|> 
|> 	you write only about the anti-south animus of Shivsena ( if any ) 
|> 	, you don't talk anything about anti-maharashtrian animus of 
|> 	south indians . 

When the South-Indians in Bombay organize a political movement aimed at 
booting the Marathis out of Bombay/Maharashthra or are alleged to be 
fomenting violence against Marathis, I'll consider commenting on it.


|> -police are blaming them for it. Jayalalitha has appealed to Naik to protect the
|> -"small Tamil community" in "sundar Mumbai, marathi Mumbai." "Small?" I
|> -thought that Bombay had more Tamils than Madras. Expect some incidents of 
|> 
|> -vandalism on Northies (to an avg. Madrasi, the distinction between a Punjabi, 
|> -UP-ite, Marathi etc. is irrelevant -- they all speak Hindi) by some looters in
|> 
|> 	here comes one more arbit statement , you can say that an average 
|> 	madrasi doesn't distinguish between Punjabi , UP-ite , Marathi etc.
|> 	, if you think so . but who the hell told you that maharashtrians
|> 	speak hindi , you don't seem to have gone to any other place in 
|> 	maharashtra other than bombay . 

Actually, speaking to an avg. Madrasi, Marathi, Hindi, Oriya and <any other 
non-Southie language> is pretty much the same. Does that explain the 
parenthetical comment? 

|> 
|> -Madras anxious to not be out-done by their Bombay-ite cousins.
|> 
|> 	i don't know , how to react to the threat that you have given 
|> 	to all the northies in south ! 

Aah! Let's see. I said that as a result of the attacks on Tamils in Bombay,
there will likely be attacks on Northies in Madras. To ME, it seems like
a statement of conjecture. If you perceive that as a threat from me, I can't be 
responsible for your imagination working overtime.

|> 
|> -The Central Railways are adding extra cars to trains to facilitate people
|> -fleeing the city. According to the Governor (in office while a replacement
|> -is announced, I guess) C.Subramaniam (he's a Tamil), the Army is finding it
|> 
|> 	again the valuable information that you give about c.subramanian ,
|> 	is totally unrelated to the topic . do you imply that even being
|> 	a tamillian he is not able to protect his people in bombay ?

As you so wisely  note, in what for you seems like a random flash of insight,
these are *RANDOM* comments, which mean the addition of some  **RANDOM** 
information, which might or might not be germane to any point I was trying to
make (or not to make). If you choose to elevate this to the status of a bona
fide news report with all the implications of objectiveness that go with that, 
I am sorry -- I decline the honour.

I repeat, I am not responsible for any inferences, intelligent or otherwise,
that people draw from what I say. If they draw any inferences and choose to
act on them, it is their problem, not mine.

|> 
|> ......... many random statements deleted 
|> 
|> 	i just feel that you should read your article twice before posting .

Try and get a little perpective. On the other hand, get a LOT of it.


|> 		- sameer j. apte


-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these views, I'd be most surprised.
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