From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Israel and the Fourth Geneva Convention (was: Israeli Nazism?)
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 09:04:12 GMT

In article <1483500313@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes:

   Israel has not deported terrorists, but ALLEGED terrorists. The
   difference is crucial. A civilized country does not punish people
   without due trial. These people, while perhaps members in HAMAS,
   were not brought to a trial and not charged for any criminal
   offens. A person who has not been properly convicted after due
   process is deemed innocent. This at least is the rule of law in
   civilized countries.

Although I do not agree with the deportations, and grieve whenever
Israel feels forced to take strong-arm action in the Territories, I
often wonder about the more legal, yet crueler, actions Israel could
be taking.  I would appreciate any corrections to any of the following
statements I make.

Firstly,

a) the last recognized (ie. legal) governing authority in the West
   Bank and Gaza was the League of Nations (later UN) Mandate granted
   to the United Kingdom,

b) much of the regulations managing day-to-day life under the British
   Mandate were inherited from the time when Palestine was part of the
   Ottoman Empire.


Now, a question:

The Egyptian and Jordanian occupations of the now-Israeli occupied
Gaza and West Bank were not (generally) internationally recognized.
Do the laws enacted during their illegal hold any weight during the
current Israeli occupation?


Mr. Research said:

   I wish Israel would emulate Western democratic countries rather
   than kenguro-courts of military dictatorships. Those who are
   friends of Israel and the Jewish people, should redouble their
   efforts in bringing Israel to the fold of the civilized world
   rather than defending what is utterly immoral and illegal.


I agree that deportations without trial are outside of peacetime
morality (we can argue whether Israel can legally 'declare war' on
Hamas), I am not yet convinced with regards to their illegality.  More
precisely...


We have been told by numerous media and diplomatic officials in the
media that deportations are illegal under the Geneva convention
(assume for the moment that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to
the Territories.  I am fully aware that Israel does not recognize
this, using the fact that the territories are not part of a
recognized sovereign country.)

As I understand the Geneva Convention, the occupying country is
obligated to follow a few basic rules, including:

	1) no forced, mass deportations of occupied population,
	2) no forced migrations of its own citizenry INTO 
	   occupied territory,
	3) maintenance of the status quo wrt. laws and regulations,
	4) policing the occupied territory


At this time I ask:

1) Are western-style trials mandated under the (4th) Geneva
   Convention?  (And if so, is this because Israel-proper has a
   western-style justice system or because the Convention explicitly
   defines a specific judicial procedure?)

2) What level of punishments can Israel, as an occupying power under
   the Geneva Convention, inflict?  Can it invoke the death penalty,
   group punishment, etc., citing its legality under British Mandate
   and Ottoman (as well as possibly 1948 Jordanian and Egyptian) law?



Mr. Research continues:

   The success of Hamas, by the way, can be attributed to a great
   extent to the refusal of Israel's leaders to come to terms with
   the legitimate grievances of the Palestinian people. If Israel would
   recognize the wrong it inflicted on the P. people and attempt to
   repair the wrong, Hamas would be put out of a job.

Hamas' power base is in the Gaza Strip, one of the most crowded
regions around, and a considerably poor place.  It is crowded because
the Palestinians living there are trapped, many of them in refugee
camps built in 1948.  Israel is not allowed to move the residents to
the less crowded West Bank, nor even remove them from their UN refugee
camps.  The Gaza residents are, on average, considerably poorer than
their West Bank cousins, because of their confines.  As in other, poor
Arab regions in the Middle East, Islamists are gaining popularity
because they offer hope. 


I believe that Israel does shoulder some blame for the plight of the
Palestinians.  However I also believe that Israel's neighbours (and
Iraq, which participated in the 1948 war) also have some blame.  For
Israel to accept responsibility, the other guilty parties would need
to accept some of the responsibility as well.  If Israel unilaterally
claims responsibility, it would end up having taken SOLE responsibility
for the situation.



--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA