HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bernd.Kischnick@launchpad.unc.edu (Bernd Kischnick)
Subject: Re: Chain Maintenance Question
Summary: praising Rohloff chains
Keywords: chain wear
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:36:33 GMT

In article <4rbj475Mv4@bi-l003.bi-link.owl.de> H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke) writes:
>
>On 08.12.92, Bernd.Kischnick@launchpad.unc.edu 
>wrote about "Re: Re: Chain Maintenance Question":
>
>BK> There has to be at least the tiniest bit of elongation of the side plates
>BK> of a chain. I conclude this from the fact that the side plates of Rohloff
>BK> chains (german brand also sold as "Campagnolo Contax" chain) are purposely
>BK> produced being 1/100 mm too _short_ . Rohloff claims this is done to
>BK> prolong the chain's life, and that would be pointless if elongation is not
>BK> a limiting factor to a chain's life at all. Indeed without elongation the
>BK> side plates would never match their norm length of 1/2 inch.
>
>You got Mr. Rohloff wrong.
>
>1) Every _second_ is "too short". This compensates for wear. It's tricky,
>and if he writes a text about it (as he promised 3 years ago, and four 
>times a year) :-) , it will get posted.

Yes, every second plate is too short by 2/100 mm, I have averaged this
because I did not want to go into the countless tricky Rohloff details :)
I am looking forward to a publication of Mr. Rohloff, please watch out and
keep us up to date! (And also, please print it in "Radfahren"...)

>2) There is no _plastic_ elongation to be considered [...]

You and others have convinced me I was wrong. I thought that Rohloff had
introduced the segmented bearings against wear in the joints, so the
shortened plates were probably to compensate for another stretching effect.

>3) _Elastic_ elongation can be a factor that reduces cog life. Rohloff GmbH
>   did a lot of studies about this.

Interesting! I did not know that. Has Rohloff published any articles about
their studies?

[details about production and prices deleted]
>BK> It [the Rohloff chain] is an improved Sedisport design, 
>
>    No. It is a rather tricky design, and it is patented. The result of
>the trick: It is "softer" when bended to the side, but torsionally stiffer 
>than a Sedisport.

What I meant by Sedisport design was, that the chain lacks the cylinders
between the inner plates (I really did not know how to translate
"Lagerkragenkette").

>BK> Bernd.
>Hajo

-   Bernd.

home address bernd.kischnik@cdc2.ifum.maschinenbau.uni-hannover.dbp.de



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: border@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Ryan A. Border)
Subject: Re: CRANK PULLING PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:25:01 GMT

dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:

>    (right crank arm) threads are totally stripped.
>    How should I go about taking this crank off without damaging the bottom
>    bracket shell.  I don't give a damn about the cranks...  I also
>    don't care about the bottom bracket (or cranks). 

1) You can use an automotive gear puller to grab the crank spider from
   behind and extract it in the normal fashon.  This is usually the 
   recommended method- though I've never tried it, and have never actually
   seen one of these gear pullers.

2) In your shoes, I think I would attack the BB spindle.  You could probably
   cut it with a hacksaw (between the fixed cup and the crank arm).  
   A reciprocating saw would probably go through it like butter.  (I can't
   believe I've recommended using a Sawzall for bike repairs 2 times in the
   same week...)

>*Dan McCauley       (Lair of Sam, Lisa, Spot, Spot II, and Victoria)
_______________________________________________________________________________
* Ryan A. Border               border@nas.nasa.gov,   border@craywr.cray.com  *
* Cray Research Inc., On Site Applications Analyst 415-604-4633  o__ o__      *
* Numerical Aerodynamic Simulator, NASA Ames Research Center    _.>/-.>/'_    *
* Never trust someone who can count to 1023 on their fingers.  ( ) \---\(*)...*
==============================================================================*


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad)
Subject: Re: Need tips on climbing hills w/ loose gravel
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:33:27 GMT

In article <1gnqetINNsaj@male.EBay.Sun.COM> warriors@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon) writes:
>I am talking about steep hills w/ loose gravel.  Does anybody have any
>rules of thumb when combating these hills.
>
>gee thanx
>
>Dave
>       
Keep your butt on the seat and use the highest gear you comfortably
can to keep from spinning out.  Hitting it with a lot of speed helps 
too

miolnir



Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams)
Subject: Re: CRANK PULLING PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:03:31 GMT

David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402 (tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP) wrote:
: From article <1992Dec14.050719.86107@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY):
: > 
Stuff deleted...
: >     have to.  I already tried getting the fixed cup off, but failed.  I also
: >     don't care about the bottom bracket.  All suggestions welcomed.
: 
: Try putting the fixed cup in a vise and using the frame as your "wrench".
: The amount of leverage you can get is amazing.  Then you don't have to take
: the crank off the spindle.

How can he get the fixed cup in a vise with the crank still on the spindle?
Once the crank is off, this is a good idea.  

I just wanted to remind Daniel that the threading in fixed cups can be
either right or left handed.  Be sure you are turning it the correct way!
If memory serves, English have left hand threads while French and Italian
have right hand threads.  Is this correct?  Well, you get the idea...

Frank Williams
frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Anyone using an 11-tooth cog?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:10:58 GMT

patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Patrick Goebel) writes:
>[11T cogs?]

Wear faster and cost more.  I was told the TNT Ti 11T cog was $70, but
part of that is because it's Ti.  Smaller cogs are slightly less
efficient.  Racers may care.  Alex Moulton sells (but you have to be an
Alex Moulton owner to buy...) down to 9T for some freewheels.

		;-D on  ( Toothless grin )  Pardo
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: brrowen@nmsu.edu (ROWEN)
Subject: Wider Rear Hub...will it work
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Distribution: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:15:47 GMT

I have a '90 Bridgestone MB2 with a 130mm rear DX hub and a 122 mm BB.
What I need to know is what do I need to do (or can I?) to put a 135
mm rear hub on the thing. My 130mm DX hub has a trashed freewheel and
I can get a new XT hub from a friend for 10 bucks but it is 135mm. I
need a new BB also and can get a 125mm real cheap. Everyone I talk to
says 130mm hubs are only found on old bikes and my best bet to
preserve my shifting performance is to get my frame "re-dished". How
bad will my shifting be with 5mm wider hub? Can I use the wider BB to
compensate? Am I SOL, a victim of owing an obsolete 2 year old bike?

Bruce@nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Fluorescent bike headlight?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:13:32 GMT

In article <1460037@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Richard Foulk writes:
>
>> [I just hate silly arguments (especially pompous ones) interjected
>> into otherwise reasonable discussions.  Jesus, and blanket `It
>> cannot be done' statements -- the most grievous sin of all.]
>
>There are things in science that are not mere contention and a
>matter of convenience to researchers.  In thermodynamics there is
>entropy that cannot be violated and in optics diffuse light cannot
>be collimated.  You are not going to change that by "keeping and
>open mind".  The definition of diffuse light literally defies
>collecting and concentrating it.  It is analogous to inventing a
>paint spray gun that will remove paint from an object and put it
>back in the can.  DIsseminating a hot rumor and then collecting it
>so that it never existed might appeal to others as a better example.

You're making some assumptions here that aren't necessarily suitable.
As I said before, we aren't trying to build a movie projector, so perhaps
your `scientifically impossible collimation' is unnecessary.

I can buy a foot-long battery-powered fluorescent today that I can lash
to my handlebars and achieve better all around performance than from
my Vistalite.  It will illuminate the road better and get me seen by
motorists far more readily.  It would look a little weird, but it's
tempting.

It's attitudes like yours that make discoveries like the Scanning
Tunneling Microscope `impossible'.  (If optics won't do the job then
don't use optics! ...  Oh.)

>Anyway, don't get so worked up over science.  It has some clearly
>defined limits.

You were the one invoking science.  Please don't paint me in that role
now.  I appreciate science, but I try not to get too haughty about it.

Certainly there are defined limits, the question is whether we are to
trust you to know them all and whether they even apply to the topic
we're discussing.


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: XTR 8SPD and thumb shifters.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: ICS Department, U.C.I.
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:13:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

In article <1992Dec17.015846.27170@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>,
mamacdonald@mta.ca (Steve MacDonald) wrote:
>
>     Is there such a thing as an 8-speed thumb shifter?

Standard off-the-shelf Deore XT II thumb shifters actually have 8 detents.
Whether the indexed throw corresponds with the XTR cog spacing or nor, I
don't know. You could go to a bike shop with your calipers and measure the
cog spacings for yourself...

BTW, the XTR derailleur is nice. Use it unless it's a price issue. Also,
I've been using XTR-style shifters (RapidFire Plus) since they became
available and I like them quite a lot. I HATED RapidFire, but RapidFire
Plus is pretty cool. I've been riding my old bike (Deore DX thumb shifters)
offroad a little recently and find I miss the RF+.

  --scott
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: H.ZIERKE@BI-LINK.owl.de (Hans-Joachim Zierke)
Subject: Re: Where's the Indexing?
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 16:56:00 +0100
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v2.0 R/211 [39EB]
X-Gateway: ZCONNECT UI bi-link.owl.de [RFC/Connect IIIb DOS v0.46]


Jobst Brandt writes:

j> Many of the pre-index
j> derailleurs have the same ratio as indexed ones.  Campagnolo record
j> derailleurs have been used with good success by guys at Palo Alto
j> Bicycles. 


Jobst, I would be happy ig you could find a index-shifter for my nice
old Deore Superplate.  :-)
I would be able to index-shift the 38-teeth Suntour Perfect sprocket (that 
nicely fits to my Winner pro bodies) with this derailleur.

The old Campy Record derailleur needs less cable travel than all index
shifters provide - with one exception: the "small" Synchro lever with
a blue insert.

There are some nice setups with old derailleurs: The old Suntour Superbe Tech
might shift with Shimano shifters, the old Huret Duopar with Suntour
shifters.


Ciao
Hajo

--
Hans-Joachim Zierke  ##  Tel.: +49-30 / 394 8445  ##  Fax: +49-30 / 394 8447
                   h.zierke@tbx.berlinet.in-berlin.de
From: mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun ))
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Front derailleur allignment
Date: 12 Dec 92 15:19:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Dec12.151929.14046
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

John  King Smith <jkingsmi@mstr.amc.edu.au> writes:

>What is the net wisdom on how to check the allignment of front
>derailleurs?
>I am concerned about the derailleurs angular orientation on the seat
>tube,

The side plates of the cage should be parallel to the chainrings.
When the derailleur is at its outer most position (the largest
chainring), the cage should have a 2-4mm verticle gap between the
bottom of the cage and the top of the tallest teeth on the chainring.

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jepstei@afterlife.ncsc.mil (John Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Chain link fracture
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:52:42 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Dec17.023611.3998@leland.Stanford.EDU> lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.100321.60980@qut.edu.au> heard@qut.edu.au writes:
>>On my way to work this morning my chain broke. Not in
>>any of the ways I have seen before, instead one of the
>>links actually fractured between the edges and one
>>of the holes, thus: 
>>
>>                      *********
>>                     *         *
>>                    *    ***    *
>>                    *   *   *   *
>>                    *    ***    *
>>                     *         *
>>                     *         *
>>                     *         *
>>                     *         *
>>                    *    ***    *
>>                    *---*   *---*  <--- broke here
>>
>>It was an inside link. 
>>
>>Can anyone suggest why this type of break would occur?
>>
>>The rest of the chain looked fairly worn, though the 
>>chain itself is not that old -- I guess I have done 
>>less than 4000 km with it. I usually take fair (but not 
>>obsessive) care of my chain, but I am just back from a 
>>1000 km tour in New Zealand, where the chain had to 
>>take care of itself.
>>
>>Last time I replaced the chain I didn't also replace 
>>the rear cluster. Was this an error of judgement?
>>
>>Advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Take care
>>Ronno
>
>All the chains I've seen break have been from a pin slipping, but I have only
>seen 3 or 4 break.  I would consider 4000 km to be a fairly old chain... I
>try and replace mine every 1500 miles or so.  If you replace the chain
>frequently enough, it doesn't stretch to the point where it begins to wear
>away at the cogs really quickly, so there isn't any need to replace the
>cogs every time you change the chain.  I'd say if you replaced your chain 
>every 2500 km, you would probably be able to get at least 10000 km on your
>cogs, though I always seem to change my gearing ratios before I wear them
>out!
>
>Bill
>
>

Yes, I've broken one side of a link --- about 10 or 15 years ago --- it
was a very old chain.  This was pre-cateye days, so don't know exactly
how many thousands of miles.

BTW: If you ride on the chain with a side link broken it will eats the
cogs as you watch.  There is a rule about distance from home and probability
of something failing.  Of course I knew that my chain was worn before
it broke.  It is possible that it was so stretched that the cogs broke the 
chain from tension vice shear force.
John
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: ASTM bicycle helmet standard coming
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec13.025600.27132@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:13:43 GMT

In response to my summary of the proposed ASTM helmet standard
Roger Marquis writes:
   Is the 50 degree measurement in the vertical plane only?  I would
   think that you would use more of your peripheral vision in the
   horizontal.  I don't suppose there are any bicycling helmets
   restricting horizontal vision though.  Thanks goodness too,
   anything that restricts peripherial vision or hearing will have an
   impact on safety.  

Yes, I was talking about vision in the vertical direction only.  The
proposed standard already requires clear vision to each side over a
range of 105 degrees from straight ahead, which I believe is adequate.
However, it is specified for a Cyclopsian eye in the middle of the
brow rather than the more redundant human eyes, which I regard as a
bit bizarre.

   On another note: are there any noise standards being considered?  I 
   have worn helmets that made so much noise (from the wind blowing through
   them) that I was uncomfortably impaired from hearing approaching
   traffic.

No noise standards so far -- it is up to stealth riders to choose
their helmets carefully.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Suspension Debate
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:50:59 GMT

In article <28609@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh) writes:
|> 
|> Someone showed up at a weekly race series a couple of weeks ago with
|> a new Mongoose Amplifier which of course has the AMP fork and also a
|> rear supension.
|> ... after he didn't show up the following week someone
|> said: "Yeah, He's broken that thing three times now."  Apparantly all
|> three failures were on the frame and swingarm, not the fork.

I wonder if suspension bikes are more prone to stresses as the owners will
be tempted to take them over much harder ground and will give them more
abuse ?  Looking through the bike press a lot of the designs seem to be
badly thought out for the sake of originality, seems like the mug buyer is
being used to do the testing on a lot of this ironmongery, but I may be wrong.

David.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: walvdrk_r@research.ptt.nl (Kees van der Wal)
Subject: Re: 1 Re: Vistalight LED
Organization: PTT Research, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:06:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec8.151400.20597@schbbs.mot.com>, CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com
(Mark Hickey) writes: 

>>> estimated time of use of 30 hours.  It now only gives off a dim glimmr
>>> when I switch it on and within minutes there is no light at all.

>>Why not use rechargeable NiCd cells instead? They contain 500-700mAh, so at
>>least 30hours before recharging is required.

> One reason is the discharge "curve" of a NiCad vs an alkaline.  While
> the alkaline will "fade away", the NiCad will pretty much run out of
> gas quickly.  If your night rides tend to be fairly long, you might
> find out the hard way that you just became invisible!

If the rides tend to be "fairly long" it won't make too much difference whether 
the batteries "fade away" or run out quickly. And a 30-hour commute is more 
than "fairly long" ;-)

Regards, <kees>
From: jgk2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JAMES GRANT KING)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: COMPONENT QUESTIONS
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:41:26 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


    Is it possible to use Dura-Ace components with Ultegra components, such
    as:  using Dura-Ace rear derailleur with Ultegra crankset in a 8 sd. HG
    setup?  And is it possible to substitute a rear wheel with a Dura-Ace 8
    sd. HG hub for the same, but Ultegra?

    -Grant 12/11/92
From: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: vistalight led
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:00:53 EST
Reply-To: "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

On 12-12-92 KEES VAN  wrote:

KVWhy not use rechargeable NiCd cells instead? The contain 500-700mAh, so at
KVleast 30hours before recharging is required.DER WAL

The problem with the rechargeable NiCads is that they apparently
have a very sudden fade at the end of their charge, so they give
no warning that they'll go. Not that that would be the greatest
disaster in the world...

                   |
...eliot          -*-              Postlink: ->CHANNEL1 [R/O okay]
                   |               Internet: eliot.gelwan@channel1.com

---
EZ 1.39 #178 [in Brookline MA  7:49 pm, Wednesday 12/16/92]
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mamacdonald@mta.ca (Steve MacDonald)
Subject: previous post
Reply-To: mamacdonald@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:03:33 GMT

  I apologize for the wording and grammer in my previous post.
My editor messed up.

Steve
From: asberry@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kevin Asberry)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:24:59 GMT
Subject: Re: New Vistalite Headlight (VL/400, 410)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

  The 2 watt Vistalite with non-rechargeable AA batteries (4 of them) costs
about $20.  You can then upgrade (I only have prices for complete lighting
systems, sorry) or buy the next model in the line.  The second level system
uses the same 2 watt light, but with 4 AA nicads, and comes with a recharger.
This one goes for about $40.  Then there is a 6 watt light with frame mount
battery pack.  It uses the same light fixture with a 6 watt bulb (all models
actually use the same housing whith different combinations of batteries and
bulbs.)  I believe this one goes for about $60.  From here, it goes to a
10 watt light, frame mount rechargeable battery (more money.)  And lastly,
top of the line lighting system.  This includes both a 6 watt and a 10 watt
light, and a higher capacity frame mount rechargeable battery. These last
two sets go for about (I've only checked the prices once a few weeks ago,
so they may be slightly off) $80 and $100, respectively.      
  Since all of the systems are upgradable, you don't have to start over
each time you need more lighting capacity.  Seems good to me.

Kevin Asberry

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mamacdonald@mta.ca (Steve MacDonald)
Subject: Re: XTR 8SPD and thumb shifters.
Reply-To: mamacdonald@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:58:46 GMT

In article <BzDLHx.HoA@hfglobe.intel.com>, jimw@hfglobe.intel.com (Jim Williams) writes:
>I was just told that you could use XTR hub and cog with XT thumb shifters
>and XT derailer.  Is This True?
>
>Jim Williams
>

                                  
    Is there such a thing as an 8-speed thumb shifter?  If not,
why upgrade to an 8-ed cassette when you can onlstill only use seven or
are foforced to resort o friction
 teve                       
S     You might be able 





Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech