HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zkessin@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Zach, the Lego Maniac)
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:56:24 GMT

tarra@skat.usc.edu (Tom) writes:

>A fraternity is a BROTHERHOOD.  A men's organization.  The military has more
>rules regarding Women and Homosexuals than any fraternity.  As far as blacks 
>and foreigners go, my fraternity nationally states that no person shall be 
>denied membership based on their race or nationality.  

Well the military's rules agenst women and Homosexuals are about to be
overturned. What about religion? And preference? Do you let in gay or
bi men? If not WHY? and I have yet to see one *GOOD* argumnet for
excluding women.

Zachary Kessin
Member Brandeis Womyn's Coalition and Brandeis Triskilion.
Strait Not Narrow
From: cm007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Dr. Ski)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Help...
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:43:34 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


does anybody know the email address for ithaca college?


e-mail directly...
cm007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu


THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: frats
Followup-To: alt.flame
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:10:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov6.083258.8660@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Oct30.204740.26877@cs.ucla.edu>, jrobbins@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Jason Robbins) writes:
>> Sleazy, drunken, sexist, anti-intelectual. Just think of what a spot
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^. 
>Intellectual. Two L's. Brought to you by your local sleazy, drunken,
>sexist, anti-intilLectual frat boy.

Oh, great!  Mike is so frustrated that he resorts to grammar 
flames.  What an ultra-maroon.  What a ta-ra-ra-boom-dee-yay!
*phphphphphphphphhhphtttt*

>> Good idea. But you forgot: if they lifestyle that they embody is
>                     ^^^^^^                                     ^^
>Good agreement in verb tence, there.
                        ^^^^^
LOOK LOOK!!  A graduate of the Dann Quail Skool of Speling!
It's *tense* you pre-larval sycophant.

>Look pal, if you are going to try to make fraternity people look like
>anti-intellectuals you could at the very least try to write with a modicum
>of good style. It's just a suggestion. People might listen to what you have 
               ^                       ^
LOOK LOOK!!  His sentences don't have two spaces between them!
What a minion of loserhood!!   A total cretin!!

>to say if you do.
>
>Mike

Idjit[tm].

And respect the followup-line, or I'll throw life-sized, pewter,
Greek letters at you.

cpk
"Those in Greek houses shouldn't throw hemlock?"
From: mitd_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mitch Diamond)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: clinical psychology
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:54:49 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Hi.  I am looking for information about the graduate school program for 
Clinical psychology.  If anyone is in the program, could you please e-mail
me with some information about the program (ex. length of program, research?, 
etc...)
Thanks alot!

THE MITCH MAN
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:55:56 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <Bx5EBD.v6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney) writes:
> murphyed1@woods.ulowell.edu (The Butler) writes:

> Actually, what the rest of us has seen is that Ted is simply well-informed.
> I don't know why he bothers sometimes, since he's not arguing with people
> on their intellectual level.  He's cites statistics, studies, etc., and the
> simpletons respond with "that's not true!"  If you want to make progress,
> Ted, you'll find that a post consisting of "Is so true!" would make more
> of an impact on them than any stats or references.

Actually, what the fraternity people have seen is Ted trying to squeeze by
with slipshod articles and "research" that simply isn't. It isn't so much
that we are saying "That's not true!" as much as we are saying "Ted, you're
lying!"

> I know, I know, your fraternity has made changes, etc.  That's great.  You've
> got a long way to go before the system is cleaned up.

Ah, but we're getting there. Reform takes time.

> And that's what we're looking at here.  Statistics that generalize the
> system.  Again, I challenge you to come up with some numbers that show Ted
> is wrong.  I'm getting tired of the "that's not true" argument that's so
> prevelent on the pro-frat side.  If you really want me to believe that's
> not true, then prove it.  I'm not asking much.

The problem is that "fraternities don't rape," is a lot less sensational
and therefore the odds are less that a study like that is going to get 
published. One of my courses (I'll cite it if you like, but I don't have
the book right here) says that a study that bears results contradictory
to a researchers hypothesis is three times more likely to get junked than
a study that bears evidence for said researcher's hypothesis.

> 
> (Coincidently, before you look around for these stats, I can tell you that
> you won't find them from a legitimate source.  That might speed your search
> up a bit.)
> 

> "I want- I need- to live, to see it all..."


Join a fraternity, then. In the words of Saint Augustine, "See the other side
hear the other side."


Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: $$ Easy Money! $$
Followup-To: soc.college
Date: 9 Nov 1992 08:38:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: money, opportunity

Haitong Wang writes:

>Wanna make some easy money?  As easy as taking snap shots.  It won't make
>you rich, but it is some EASY money.

>If interested, send a self-stamped envelope to:

>      H.Wang, ......

Unless HW can tell us otherwise, this looks suspiciously like
the business where you get a reply which tells you you will
be reimbursed quite handsomely for taking snapshots, in the
privacy of your room, and sending them in to the company; you
are promised up to $100 or so per roll of film, so long as you
follow instructions.  You have to send $49 or so to receive
full details. When you do that, and only then, you are told
that the photos must be of applications from people who want
to have a plastic medical emergency card done! Guess what?
You have to advertise at your own expense for people 
who want these cards done...! (And the applications don't
exactly flood in...)

Am I right HW?  I've done a lot of research into the area of
'business opportunities' the last few years. There _are_ one
or two that are really good ventures for the right people
in my judgement (E-mail me if you'd like more details), but
95% of the opportunities are no such thing. The trick is to
know the 5% and avoid the rest... and none of the 5% is
'easy money', of course - they're all hard work (though
enjoyable and satisfying).

Anthony Bulloch
abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu
(510) 549-9127 (home)
FAX: (510) 883-9433

Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.college
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 20:35:30 -0500 
From: Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Alpha Phi Omega (was Re: Frats)
	<1992Nov5.052223.2464@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>

naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
> When we went Co-ed, as part of the agreement chapters wre not forced to go
> co-ed. However from what I understand about 70% of chapters went co-ed
> ASAP(If not sooner ) and today 25 years later approximately 90% of our 350
> active chaptersare co-ed. However most of the chapters at historically black
> schools are still all-male. All new chapters or reactivations are required to
> be co-ed.
> 
> Being co-ed does lead to some of the problems mentioned. For instance,
> you haven't seen fun until you have been in a chapter where the President
> and 1st VP were dating and had a messy breakup. However on the other
> side of the coin, I feel that developing brotherhood with brothers
> of both sexes has helped me in working with women.

One of the top reasons for social fraternities at CMU to exist is to
provide an environment for its members to establish relationships with
people outside the membership. Being an all male organization in a way
forces us to interact with other groups (ie sororities) and
individuals; thus we don't stagnate inside our house once rush ends.

I do agree with both your sides of the coin; however, I think
personally that the benefits from interacting with women as brothers
will come to you if you're social and make an attempt at having a
life. Which leaves the potential for very messy breakups, which could
_easily_ tear a brotherhood apart. 

I head all the examples of various groups being all-male and now being
co-ed; this I think is a good thing. However, in my honest opinion,
fraternities and sororities are like no other organization. When
you're initiated, it's not just that you join a club; you join a
family. And there is nothing worse than when a family starts tearing
itself apart.

Erik

PS - just for kicks -- Randy, you're at CMU -- what do YOU think would
happen if the fraternities here went co-ed?
 


play: (412) 268-5534 (CMU-5-KEG)            _____            __   ___ 
work: (412) 268-3795 (CMU-ERYK)            /__    /   /  /  /_/  /__
else: (412) 683-0741                      /      /_  /__/  /    ___/ @cmu.edu
From: ths@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Philmeister)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: U-Penn e-mail accounts?
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:18:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <osterber.721420761@husc8> osterber@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Osterberg) writes:
>A friend of mine at U-Penn (undergrad) said that regular students are not
>allowed to have e-mail accounts there, but engineering students are
>entitled to them. As such, he has a friend who is an engineering student,
>and does mail through his account. Is this really true? Is there anyone
>out there (from Penn?) who knows more about this? It sounds pretty silly.
>-Rick



Yes, only engineering and some Wharton students get free e-mail accounts.
Other students have to apply in order to get the account, but I don't know the
process.


------------------Philmeister---------------------
I like blood-sucking freaks, just like your mama
Yes, I CAN spin kick YOUR face
Would you rather sleep with a smoke detector or
a Fire Fighter?

ths@eniac.seas.upenn.edu    Penn, the IVY PENN!!
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Subject: Re: Clauses of interest from our bylaws
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date:  9 Nov 92 00:49:38 GMT

MIKEF@brownvm.brown.edu (Mike Fessler) writes:

>Ted, I'm a member of a co-ed fraternity at Brown University. Here's a question
>for you: given the following two clauses from our bylaws (accurate in substance
>if not in exact phrasing -- I don't have them in front of me, but I was on
>our bylaw revision committee a couple of years ago so I remember the gist)
>and the fact that our emphasis on alcohol since our founding ten years
>ago has been minimal to nil, are you still prepared to condemn me because
>I'm a fraternity member?

>1) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not discriminate,
>either in the selection of its members or in participation in its activites,
>on the basis of sex, race, religion, handicap, national origin, or sexual
>orientation.

>2) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not engage in
>any physical or psychological mistreatment of its pledges or members, including
>but not limited to "hazing" as defined by Brown University policy and Rhode
>Island law.

Personally, I have no problem with this type of fraternity, as long as
these bylaws are not just words in a manual and are in fact followed
consistently.  Combined with a lack of emphasis on alchohol, this
sounds like the type of group that I might even join if I really liked
the people in the fraternity.

But, of course, I assume you're also still selective in your
membership (i.e. you don't accept _everybody_ who wants to pledge) --
this is another part of fraternities that I really have a problem
with.  If this isn't the case, then I have absolutely no problem with
your fraternity -- I just wish yours was the norm.

Adam Elman
aelman@Cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:42:19 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1992Nov6.085556.8664@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>Join a fraternity, then. In the words of Saint Augustine, "See the other side
>hear the other side."

You know, I tried that, and decided that it wasn't for me.  (And they
decided that I weren't for them. :-)  Here's why:

[1]  I tended to think for myself, and refused to relinquish my 
     identity.
[2]  I refused to kiss the proper amount of sphincter in order to
     get a bid.
[3]  I got "too friendly" [ie:  said "Hi" to] with girlfriends of
     senior actives.
[4]  I don't drink.  I was once told at a rush party "pick up a 
     beer now, or leave!"
[5]  I found that I would have to hang out with the people that 
     repulsed me, as well as the people I liked.

Hmmm.....no wonder I'm so down on fraternities.

Although, don't get me wrong.  You won't see me walking around
campus carrying a placard reading "ban the Greeks--they're bad
for you and me."  But, then again, I value my personal safety.

Also, when I was president of my floor, and chairman of different
campuswide organizations, I did *not* harrass the Greek members of
my organizations.  ALthough, I do know that non-Greek friends in Tau Beta Pi,
Student Council, and Student Union Board did meet harrassment from
Greeks.  So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Tom-the-USC-frat-boy!

Also, if my friends pledge fraternities or sororities, I warn
them against the dangers of it, and tell them why I think they
shouldn't join.  But if they decide to anyway, then I stand behind
them in their decisions to do so.  I have respect for my friends,
even when they don't agree with me.  Although, I have no respect
for the Greek organization.  Because it has no respect for me.
(Reasons [1]-[5] above.)

cpk
Ha, ha, only serious.
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Attendance policy
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:22:37 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA

<IO00052@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>What I would like is feed back from other schools and their policy
>on attendance!  Do you have one? If so, what is it!  If you do not
>please express your opinions about our policy!

We don't have one.  I am perfectly happy with that.  I go to most of
my classes, but when I know that I really don't need to go to class
and I really don't feel like it, I can stay home without worrying
about the consequences.

My opinion on attendance is this:  Clearly, attendance _does_ affect
one's grades.  Thus, if you don't go to class most of the time, your
grades will suffer.  But in college, your grades are _your_
responsibility, as are most things.  Stanford has a policy of treating
its students as adults and making them take responsibility for their
own lives; I agree with this, and am quite against any college
attendance policy.

This said, I do think that individual professors, if they desire, can
and should include attendance in some fashion as part of the grade.
In one of my classes, attendance at class section is not mandatory,
but class participation is, so if I don't show up to section I will
end up failing for lack of participation.  With lecture -- if you
don't go to lecture, you miss a significant amount of material, so
that's important too -- if a professor really wants to take attendance
at lecture, that's their prerogative -- I also don't have to take
their class if I object.

But I think a university-wide policy is a bad idea, since most
students and professors do just fine (at least here) without it.

Adam Elman
aelman@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college,dartmouth.politics
From: jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger)
Subject: Re: Up yours!! Dartmouth Rules!!!
Organization: Yale University, Intelligent Sensors Lab, Elect. Eng.
	<1992Oct29.213600.27030@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:55:02

In article <1992Oct29.213600.27030@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:

>In <Mew38ey00WB54fjZVu@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu
>(Erik Warren Selberg) writes:

:>Futher, I suggest that the tradition be either discontinued or
:>organized so that this doesn't happen again. As it stands now, you're
:>just inviting riots to happen again.

:As several people have pointed out, the practice of rushing the field is
:banned at Dartmouth. There is not a whole lot the College can do when
:freshman students prefer the risk of arrest over staying in their seats.
:I've already said that the security could have been improved at the Yale
:game but beyond that I have no idea what the College is supposed to do.
:They can increase the penalties but they have been steadily doing so over
:the years with no apparent effect. They cannot deny admission to freshman
:students and the law only allows so much punishment.

When the Buffalo Bills beat the Miami Dolphins to clinch home
field advantage for the playoffs, thousands of drunken fans
stormed the field, tore down the goal posts, and caused lots of
other damage.  The team then took measures to prevent a
recurrence during the playoffs.  Local leaders and the media
denounced the mob, the alcohol policy was revised, and extra
security was hired.  These steps proved effective in maintaining
order when the Bills won the conference.  I find it incredible
that dartmouth college and its police are so impotent that they
can't stop a few dozen people.

:I'm sorry about your brother's horn but 20 or 30 freshman students running
:about the field is not a riot. Not a good thing, but not a riot. Since you
:weren't a witness it would seem like a good idea if you avoided that
:kind of judgement. Using that kind of negative language only complicates
:the issue and serves no purpose.

I was standing about 10 feet behind Mr. Selberg.  It is fortunate
that he the horn from his lips in time and did not need major
dental work.  Another horn player, who is a music major, suffered
a cut lip and couldn't play for a week.  Several persons came
close to receiving serious and career ending injuries.  The
behavior that led to this cannot be condemned strongly enough,
and dartmouth college should have taken stronger preventive
measures.

Jim
--
James Szinger                        jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu

"He was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad."
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: gusbergi@idbsu.edu
Subject: Looking for M. Drowne at Carnegie Mellon
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:53:12 GMT

 I am looking for the email address for an old friend of mine.  If anyone knows
how to find out email addresses for Carnegie Mellon University I would be most
appreciative.

Thanks
Rob Bergin
Boise State University
From: sheen@cs.uwp.edu (Leslie Sheen)
Subject: PEACE CORPS
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:30:09 GMT


PEACE CORPS...


I am very much interested in any information anyone may have regarding the
Peace Corps.  I am giving serious thought to joining and would like some
input from former volunteers, those thinking about it,.... etc. etc.

email to LESLIE 
sheen@cs.uwp.edu
From: tse@foolish.apple.com (Gary Tse)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:43:45 GMT
Organization: Raoul Duke School of Pharmacology and Journalism

In article <BxGKDE.H42@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:
>In <1992Nov6.191622.8680@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>>That is of course your privilidge. I however am not wild about calling 
>>a Ms. Magazine article hard scientific evidence. Call me kooky...
>
>I didn't look at that one.  However, there were also references from
>a Campus Violence conference, Sociological Inquiry, Sociological Quarterly,
>Sociology and Social Research, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality,
>and several books on the subject.

Mindless frat-bashing anti-American liberal-pandering pseudo-scientific 
radical-feminist hacks who are still bitter over their inability to be
accepted by frats.  Obviously. 

-- 
Gary Tse, tse@Apple.COM		"The fascination of what's difficult",
(408) 862-5452  		    The wish to do what one's not done before,
				Is the proper card to show at Heaven's door.
From: rand@lucy.merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Dr. Wm V. Muse (was: Re: frats)
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:29:00 GMT
 <1992Nov8.032322.6386@midway.uchicago.edu> <1992Nov10.093330@lucy.merrimack.edu> <1992Nov10.180621.11968@midway.uchicago.edu>
Reply-To: rand@lucy.merrimack.edu ()
Organization: "Silicon Surfers, Inc."

, 11 11:29:00 19929211:29:00 1992ESTLines: 37


In article <1992Nov10.180621.11968@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mind the Gap) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.093330@lucy.merrimack.edu> rand@lucy.merrimack.edu () writes:
>>I'd be interested in seeing your bibliography, Ted. It's hard to find some of this stuff. Fraternities and Sororities on the Contemporary College Campus (1987, Jossey-Bass) contains an accurate picture of what fraternities generally are today and what they should be. It contains a lot of cites.
>
>Perhaps you can summarize.  Self-published materials in fraternity publications
>hardly counts as peer-reviewed scholarship, and the titles don't seem to
>indicate that he addresses *any* of the issues I've brought up.  Does Muse 
>claim that a fraternity has to be all-male to have success?  Does he claim that
>fraternities don't have abnormally high rape rates?  If not, your sources are
>irrelevant to anything I'm discussing.  If so, I'd be surprised.

Listen you anal retentive vindictive twerp, I wasn't following the discussion. 
You asked for William V. Muse cites and I was nice enough to blow $10 of my 
employer's money to go searching for them. I'm sure you could have done it
yourself. Sorry I was so nice. I'm familiar with  your story. I've listened to
your ranting for over a year. If you want to help SOLVE some of the problems
why don't you try using a helpful tone of voice instead of this condescending
omnipotent shit. Try advice backed by evidence WITHOUT the attitude. More
people will listen, especially the younger people.

From what I remember, Muse speaks of all-male memebrship much the same way
all women and all black colleges speak of themselves.

Ted, why don't take your frustration (which I recognize as real and justified)
and point it toward a civil suit aimed at Brandeis?


>>It took a long time to dig the whole. It'll take a long time to fill it in...
>
>The whole what?

Pardon me, asshole, I mistyped in a hurry after wasting an hour of my
employer's time on your behalf.

Sorry about the language but perhaps it's waht you like since you are as 
caustic.
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA