From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:23:22 GMT

mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:
>  How about a government that defines its citizens as only its white
>residents? Israel avoids the problem by carefully selecting who to call a
>citizen.  Who is ruling over the residents of Jerusalem, the West Bank
>and Gaza? Do they consent to the Israeli government?

Mokhtar once more either shows ignorance or deliberately tries to
mislead everyone.  The way Israel decides who can become a citizen is
not much different from any other nation.  Since Judea and Samaria are
not within Israel, it would be presumptuous for Israel to foist
citizenship on its residents.  Any such action must await a negotiated
settlement of the status of the territories.  Indeed, to so act
prematurely would immediately bring upon Israel the wrath of the
United Nations, which has never shown any hesitancy about condemning
Israel, whether justified or not.

Jerusalem is another matter, since it is not only part of Israel, but
is its capital.  All residents of Jerusalem have had the opportunity
to become Israeli citizens.  If they have chosen not to avail
themselves of that right, it is their fault and Israel is not to
blame.

>  Israel has a racist method of assigning citizenship. It rules with the
>consent of the majority of those it wishes to define as citizens. A racist
>product of a racist state.

A racist remark, with no relationship to reality.

>>  It is theoretically possible for a democracy to exist without the freedoms
>>customarily associated with democracies.

>  This is certainly possible, but Israel is not an example of that. Israel is
>already oppressive, it needs to become a democracy before it can be an
>oppressive democracy.

Israel in certainly not oppressive, and certainly is a democracy, but
obviously there are many who wish to close their minds to that in
their zeal to condemn Israel regardless of merit.

>The flag in question is the Palestinian flag, not the PLO flag.

Palestinian flag?  What entity, precisely, does it represent?  Who
designed it?  Does Yassir Arafat know that it is not the PLO flag?  If
so, how do those who exhibit it escape with their lives?

>Declaring your enemy to be terrorist is quite common and does not
make it true.

Quite true.

>>The laws are the same for all citizens,  Jew and non-Jew.  All nations
>>have laws regulating immigration, and those laws do not apply to
>>citizens (by their very nature).

>  Let me repeat myself:

>>>    A Palestinian born and raised in Jerusalem cannot return ...

Just as I, if I left the US voluntarily and declared myself dedicated
to the destruction of the US, would not be able to return if I was not
still a citizen.  (And, if I was still a citizen and thus permitted to
return, I would be arrested.)

>>>    while a total
>>>    stranger from Russia is welcomed, given citizenship and accomodation.

In his homeland.

>  Israel's laws are not the same for all its citizens, see laws regarding
>military service and benefits accrued from it. The immigration laws are
>designed to define who the citizens are in order to transform the region
>demographically.

In that case, why has the Arab portion of Israel's population
increased, and the Jewish portion decreased, during most of the period
since the reestablishment of Israel?

If Israel is so good to Jews, and so terrible to Arabs, why do Arabs
complain about not being able to come in, while more Israeli Jews live
in New York City than Tel Aviv?

>  The big lie. I saw Palestinian money and passports. I have friends who were
>born in Palestine. Palestine is drawn as a state in any atlas or map before
>1948, check it out. Even national geographic had many maps that show
>Palestine. In any case, independent or not, Israel is now occupying it.

There is an area that has at times been called Palestine, and
residents there during the British occupation had Palestine listed on
their passports.  That is a far cry from their ever being a sovereign
entity known as Palestine.

>  Israel is occupying Jerusalem, Gaza, The West Bank, South Lebanon, the
>Golan heights, and until recently Sinai. Israel occupied territory from
>everyone of its neighbors, then complains that it has many enemies.

Of course, if Arabs hadn't kept attacking Israel, you wouldn't be
saying that.

By the way, what do you have to say about Syria occupying North
Lebanon, Central Lebanon, Eastern Lebanon and Western Lebanon?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:3672 soc.culture.lebanon:4038