HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stanford@spark (Adam Stanford)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: boots
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:32:59 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: spark.berkeley.edu

I'm interested in buying some plastic boots, mainly for
glacier travel.  Can anyone offer some advice about what
to look for in the way of features, brands and prices?

thanks-
Adam Stanford
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: grease
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:27:40 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug31.142811.8542@odin.corp.sgi.com>
bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>Hey, I'm a star!

And so you are!

I wrote
>|>  So I declare that G ratings should assume
>|> no chalk.  Chalk should remove 1 rating.  Okay?
>
>Interesting.  Sometimes chalk is the difference between possible and
>impossible (e.g., Whale's Tail Mantle).  On other greasy sections, it
>man seem to make no difference at all, e.g., slimy cracks like at the
>crux of Gripper on a hot, sunny day.

This is not too far from the gardening argument.
If a better climber (for instance) does something greasy w/o chalk,
that other do with, then he/she does it without the benefit of that aid.
The alternative is to add 1 rating when done without.

>Perhaps G3 is too greasy to be humanly possible?

The greasiest thing I've seen documented was Messner's story about climbing
a greased pole for some contest.  Now, he used aid slings and sand to get up,
that's one high end G3, so I'm not certain how we should take this aid into
account.  The NIST can easily duplicate a greasy pole (probably need to
standardize grease), and and and......

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: tim@muvms3.bitnet (Tim Calvert)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Rope condition questions
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:41:42 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

Greetings to all you expert climbers. I (a non-climber) have a question I 
hope you can answer. I bought a length of BlueWater II rope early this 
summer. It's been used for rappelling (purely recreational) about 5 times 
on cliffs ranging from 30 to 90 feet. I've also put it through the gentle 
cycle on my washer 3 times. There are two problems with the rope. First, 
it has an obvious twist to it. Last week we were on the 90' cliff, which 
allows most of the rope (it's about 120') to hang free, and looking up from 
the bottom it appeared to spiral up the cliff. I tried to untwist it, but as 
soon as I let go, it twisted right back again. The second problem is that 
the rope feels very stiff for most of its length. This doesn't cause much of 
a problem except when trying to coil the rope, though it does concern me. 
The twist problem, however is a problem. When either rappelling or ascending, 
one tends to spin a bit when one loses contact with the cliff wall.

So, has anyone ever heard of either of these problems before? And does anyone
have any suggestions of what I can do about it? 

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Tim

-- 
Tim Calvert				BITNET:   tim@marshall
Marshall University			Internet: tim@marshall.wvnet.edu
Huntington, WV				Phone:    (304)696-3210
					FAX:      (304)696-3601
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jrb@Ingres.COM (John Black)
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:36:19 GMT

What do people mean by "worst"?  One of the most uncomfortable 3 hour periods
of my life was spent hanging above the Kor Roof on Washington Column in a 
Yates belay seat which must have been designed by the Marquis de Sade.

In article <TIMSC.92Aug31200130@aspen.cfsat.Honeywell.COM> timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com writes:
>
>when we arrived at the base of the climb... alas there was no place
>level enough to fold out our chairs.  These two english fellows
>exclaimed..
>
>"You brought lawn chairs all the way up here?!"
>

The one and only time I climbed Avalanche Gulch on Mt. Shasta, my friend and
I brought up a lawn chair, a newspaper, and a beach umbrella so we could take
entertaining pictures on the summit.  We got a few odd stares from the other
climbers that day.  But the joke was on us when we finally reached the summit
and found there was already a lawn chair up there!!  Oh well...

john//
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:04:21 GMT
Reply-To: billw@sjc.mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Aug26.190957.16707@csc.ti.com>, czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug26.162433.12423@news.mentorg.com> billw@sjc.mentorg.com writes:
|> >
|> >-4 deg C??  That isn't too useful for 6000m peaks (or 4000m peaks for
|> >that matter) even in the summertime!  Are you sure it isn't -40 deg C?
|> >If not, then it couldn't be temperature compensated (at least not in a
|> >useful range.)
|> >
|> 
|> I think the number should be in Fahrenheit.  If the temperature of your wrist
|> got lower than -4 deg F, I doubt you'd have much use for the watch anyway.

True the watch will stay warmer against your wrist, but will your wrist
heat the complete watch?  Also, if it can only compensate to -4 deg F then you 
obviously cannot take the watch off your wrist.  I guess this might
not be a problem.

Anyway, I am certainly interested it.  A friend of mine who had the earlier
version of this watch said that it was pretty useless because it wasn't
temperature compensated.  His varied many hundreds of feet depending upon
if he was facing the sun or not!  I would be very interested to here how
accurate and stable this watch is.  Cary's review of it sounded great but
how does it work in practice?
-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:48:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.131707.18820@mcnc.org>,
ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek) writes:
>I've been bitching about this also.  My first Mammut 8.5mm fuzzed
>rapidly, but it held up.  The second snapped its sheath very quickly.
>A little shy, I replaced it with a 9mm, which instantly got munched on
>some really sharp quartzite, and converted to a 45m rope.  The latest
>was a Bluewater 8.5 mm (really a 9mm, BW is terribly off).  This lost
>one direction of the sheath, over about an inch the core shows, but the
>other direction of the weave is intact, keeping the core in
>(temporarily).  I have no idea at all how that happened, and since my
>previous ropes (11mm) all lasted long times, I have the (probably
>overinflated) idea that I take good care of my ropes.
>
I'm on my second pair of Mammut 8.5's and have not had your
problems.  I bought the "dry" models.  That is supossed to result in
slightly tougher sheath.  The problem I experienced with the first
pair is that one of them became about 2-3 feet longer than the
other.  I deduced that the longer one had taken most of the the load
in one or more significant falls.  At that point I decided it was
time for a new pair even though the first set looked OK externally.

Perhaps this is another benefit of double ropes  --  you are more
likely to notice that one has been permanenly stretched by a big
fall.  Actually, the faller (me) didn't think it was all that bad!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Climbing Rack?
Keywords: Climbing Rack
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:48:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.205604.16121@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
 tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
|>Some people really like tri-cams instead of hexes (I have a smallisth
c                          ^^^^^
|>tri-cam on my rack, it can be really handy in wierd little pockets).
|>There are other brands besides stoppers for wired nuts.

Hmm, the obvious just occured to me ( a very rare and cherished thing)
When a tri-cam gets 'old', ie, the WEBBING on a tri-cam gets old,
then, what do you do? Can you have the webbing replaced?  Anyone know?


--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares


Xref: sparky rec.climbing:3307 sci.geo.meteorology:2976
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:41:48 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug28.194600.12188@colorado.edu> men@bjerknes.colorado.edu (Matthew Newman) writes:
>
>The main effect of temperature variation is that if the air is warmer than
>the watch thinks it should be at that altitude (i.e., warmer than the
>'standard' atmosphere temperature), it will cause the
>displayed altitude to be too high, and vice versa.  This effect gets worse 

I agree with this statement as far as it goes. However, the response of the
Casio to a change in the temperature of the *altimeter* is not the same as
that to a change in the temperature of the *atmosphere*. In my experience,
the response to the instrument (watch) temperature is much stronger, and in
the opposite direction. For example, the watch may be heated by strong
sunlight, while the temperature of the air remains nearly unchanged. As a
result, the altitude reading may be driven down 200 or 300 feet. I sometimes
wear it turned to the inside of my wrist to give it more shade. Conversely,
cold air blowing across the watch cools the instrument and raises the 
reading, even though altimetry math would indicate that the reading should
decrease slightly. This is instrument error in the form of a negative 
temperature factor. 

I believe the sensor contains a small sealed volume of gas with a diaphragm
that separates it from ambient air. Temperature changes affect the gas in
the sealed chamber. I would expect that an aneroid instrument (using a 
flexible evacuated box would show none of this error, or much less of it.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:03:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.173520.2782@guinness.idbsu.edu>,
jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
>
>Another advantage to using a double rope set-up has to do with
>climbing a peak as a group of three.  I'd seen this done before
>with a European guide and his two sons while climbing in the
>Bugaboos, so, um, I started doing it also ... I wonder if anyone
>out there may point out any faulty reasoning in my approach?
>Basically, if I'm climbing with two other people, I lead on
>double ropes, and bring up my two partners somewhat simlutaneously,
>each of them independently tied into one of the two 9mm ropes.
>This makes a three person team much faster.  If the potential for
>falling is high, then I bring them up one at a time.  AND, I wouldn't
>use this set-up if the climb involved dangerous traverses where the
>potential for a leader-type force fall was present.
>
I've heard of this technique only once before.  It was mentioned by
a Austrian who had moved to Lake Tahoe and was running his own guide
service.  He used it so he could belay two clients at once,
generally on easier ground.  I've never tried it myself and whenever
I mention it the response is usually a raised eyebrow or two.
Still, it sounds reasonable if you have good rope handling skills.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: R3TLM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: beginner
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:53:24 GMT

      I'm a beginner of the utmost in this grand adventure referred to
as climbing and I was wondering if you could e-mail me the names of
some books that would be good for learning as well as some climbs in
Ohio that would be good for an amateur.
 
Thanks
 
Timothy McCollum
 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eexmsj@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (M.S.Jones)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 08:03:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.160918.16400@thom2.thom2.comlab> leaver@thom2.comlab (Andrew Leaver) writes:
>
>The current recommendation of the British Mountaineering Council for
>joining two ropes for abseiling is to lie the two ends side by side and
>tie a simple overhand knot (thumb knot) in the pair of ropes. I must admit
>that this looks horribly unsafe, and I wasn't at all keen on the idea
>first time I saw it!
>

I'd be interested to know where you got this info from (no criticism, just
want to read it for myself).

Also, last time this discussion came up I posted my offering:
If using a double fishermans knot it is much easier to untie if you place a
reef knot inbetween the two knots of the fishermans. People followed up saying
how it was dangerous but I have a friend who was shown this by a guide and it
is the the BMC approved book. A very good book for someone who wants to know
anything about climbing(I ain't connected with it in any way, I just own one)

Martin.



From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:30:18 GMT
Subject: Re: climbing in RMNP
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

> 
> 1) Spearhead, N ridge - any snow up there?  How's the route and what
> protection is necessary?
>

Well, it snowed last week up to a foot in some places.  Also, the weather
report I saw last night predicted snow above 10,000ft. for today.  The
rest of the week looked warmer and dryer so most of it should melt.

John
 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)
Subject: Re: Rope condition questions
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:43:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.205803.10297@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>: Is there a rapel device that dosen't twist the rope because I'm getting tired
>: of unwinding my rope after every climb I do.
>
>As Eugene has mentioned, any of the brake-bar type devices will work.
>
>1) biner brake (crossed carabiners)
>2) carabiner w/brake bar
>3) Rappel rack (heavy, but good for 250+ foot drops)
>4) Sticht plates (seem to keep the rope from twisting too much but not
>   entirely)
>5) Lowe Tuber or Black Diamond ATC
>6) Petzl "Bobbin" descenders
>7) Certain ALP descenders I have seen
>8) Bachli Seilbremse
>9) Others????

10) Duffersitz (c'mon - what's a few scars on all that flab?)
11) "French-Crossed Carabiners" (see Montgomery, SRT. Basically, weave the
     rope through two (or more) axially-aligned, stacked biners.)
12) Whaletail (anyone still make these?)
13) Various titanium rackoid devices filtering out of the ex-USSR
14) Squeeze brakes (may still cause rope damage, but shouldn't twist it - and
    you can get on rappel on a rope still under tension.)
15) Cuddington rappel spool-type devices (probably don't cause twist - I
    have never seen one used).
16) Of course, you can always jumar down....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dead mountain mouth of carious teeth that cannot spit                     
  --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land                                            
..............................................................................
s.w. marlatt, <><  &  *(:-)
University of Colorado:                   marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu  492-3939
National Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu  497-1669
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sarah@cs.arizona.edu (Sarah M. Officer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: RE: Grease
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:18:44 GMT

Some German friends of mine told me about a route in the northern
alps (southern Bavaria) where climbing with chalk is mandatory.  I
forget the name of this popular route, but I believe it is on 
limestone.  There is a traverse around a corner with a handrail
where generations of sweaty palms have reacted with the limestone
to polish it smooth.  I'm fuzzy with my chemistry, but I believe 
that chalk is basic and palm sweat is acidic, and climbers have 
been asked to use chalk to neutralize their palm sweat and reduce
further impact to this route!
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re:  REI, its foes, and a carabiner's tale
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:36:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.eric.714760591
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington

Just when you thought you'd read the last of it...

Well, in spite of all of REI's shortcomings, I gained a new appreciation
for them last night when I tried to return a BD Quicksilver biner to one
of their competitors.  (I won't mention their name, because I'd hate to
badmouth the Swallow's Nest, on 2308 6th Ave, Seattle.)  The biner had a
gate spring which was about half as stiff as my other five biners of this
model (as well as the gobs of other assorted biners on my rack), and I don't
want to risk having the gate swing open at an inopportune moment.

Anyway, the friendly folks at the Swallow's Nest told me that there is nothing
wrong with the biner and offered to give me shipping instructions if I want
to send it to Black Diamond at my own expense.  The REI no questions asked
return policy suddenly takes on new significance for this consumer.  Will I
be shopping at the boutique priced, customer-be-dammed Swallows Nest anymore?

Naw.

Yours slanderously,
Eric Hirst
eric@milton.u.washington.edu
From: martyg@Ingres.COM (Marty Garrison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Offwidths
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:08:58 GMT
Reply-To: martyg@Ingres.COM (Marty Garrison)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <1992Sep3.084013.58592@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>Greg Hill writes:
>
>
>There is a climb somewhere in the peak district, UK, probably at curbar if I
>remember and possibly called Goliath or similar (It's been a long time!).
>A 30' gritstone ugly of which the guide says "the energy expended on this climb
>is usually enough to light Sheffield for a week. The difficulties depend on
>how well you can swim"
>
>Now that's offwidth technique!
>
I believe thats the left eliminator, I did it a number of years ago
and found it to be somewhere around 10c.

Marty
From: andrew@alice.att.com (Andrew Hume)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Summary: my worst belay
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:12:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



	altho not in bruce's league, my worst belay was a hanging belay
(clipped into pro on 45 deg rock -- no ledge) on mt arapiles in summer
in the sun. i had to belay on one foot at a time to avoiding burning
both of them (one did get a mild burn) as the rock was REALLY hot.
it truly sucked as i had to belay 3 people from that spot.

	andrew hume
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,sci.geo.meteorology
From: cas@noaacrd.colorado.edu (Cathy Smith)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:27:07 GMT

In article <TED.92Aug31201713@pylos.nmsu.edu> ted@nmsu.edu writes:
>
>
>In article <1992Aug28.194600.12188@colorado.edu> men@bjerknes.colorado.edu (Matthew Newman) writes:
>
>	... much formulaic muttering ...
>
>
>
>for quicky stuff, it suffices to assume that the atmospheric pressure
>drops exponentially, losing half of the pressure every time you ascend
>18,000 feet.  thus the pressure at 9,000 feet is about 14.7 / sqrt(2)
>psi ~= 10 psi (or whatever units you like).  
>

Even simpler; for every 1000' you go up, the pressure drops ~30mb (from
1000mb at 0').  So 9000' would correspond to about a reading of 730mb
(and no square roots!).  

Cathy Smith









-- 
cas@noaacrd.colorado.edu
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Known details of Cathedral accident (additions/changes) to Morton
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:42:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <1992Aug28.015443.21043@pony.Ingres.COM> rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:
>I personally like to use dynamic pro only when on leads where speed of
>placement might make the difference between screaming with joy or
>terror.  Good nut placements are much harder to find, but I think they
>are bomber.  I always back up active cams placements with static stuff
>at a belay.

I like to use nuts 1) because they're lighter  2) so I'll trust them
when needed.  Many factors affect which is best in any particular spot.
But I am not clear why you are leery of active pro at belays.  After
weight and cost, I find the principal disadvantages of active cams are
diagonal or transverse loading over an edge, and 'walking' due to rope
wiggling.  At a belay, these factors are minimized, and cams are almost
always more multidirectional than a stopper, so less rearrangement 
of the belay for the leader is needed.

The strongest argument for nuts at belays is so the leader will have the
Friends for the next pitch. 

>I'd like to do a mathematical treatment of the expansion of active cams,
>in order to get a better idea of what the most important variables are.

I thought this was pretty straighforward.  The cam is a constant angle
with planar rock, and the failure modes are friction loss, cam
compression, axle bending and stem breakage.  I have never heard of cams
buckling, so I assume the designers have done that job properly.

A better idea would be to try to model cam walking.  Is 3 better than 4?
Would 6 be proof? When is ULLU better than ULUL? (cam arrangement on
the axle)

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: rec.climbing