From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 14:27:11 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <1992Sep7.105516.4174@nntp.hut.fi>  f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
> oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
> >> In article <1992Sep4.081930.26242@nntp.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi
> >(Janne Kivel{) writes to Vadim Antonov:
> >> Your claim that Russians are the least nationalistic people in Europe
> >> makes me think that you are a true 'homo sovieticus'.
> >
> >Just for the record, Vadim Antonov actively participated in resisting
> >the last year coup by keeping electronic links up with the rest
> >of the world, and letting the resistance to communicate with each
> >other and the West.
> >It was Business Week or Time Magazine (I forget which) which reported
> >on this last September.
> >As a side note, those who use insults as a means of argument are those
> >whose arguments are weakest.
>
> I have no way of knowing what kind of honorable deeds a person may have
> done in the past.

Even if Vadim did not do such deeds, would it not be decent to refrain
from ad hominem (? sp) attacks ? Would it not be a more convincing
argument (if you were able to come up with one) to show why Vadim was
wrong by a counterexample or some deduction ?

> Hats off to Vadim for his bravery by all means.
> This does not mean, however, that everything Mr. Antonov tells us is
> the truth or God's divine word.

You are shifting from the point - you called Vadim 'homo sovieticus'.

> I agree that calling him 'homo sovieticus' was too much and I have already
> apologized for that, but didn't the official Soviet propaganda claim that
> there are no ethnic conflicts in USSR, but instead they had friendship
> of peoples.

Is USSR=Russian to you ? As far as Soviet propaganda goes, I never heard
of ethnic conflicts and unrests in the old Stalin/Hruzchev/Brezhnev days
(at least not on the scale that we see it now).
There were bigotry, prejudice and injustice, but those did not subside with
the advent of democracies in the new countries. As a matter of fact, the
only country where bigotry has diminished it Russia proper.

> As a side note, those who can't stand the heat of an argument often make
> wiseguy comments from the sidelines. :-)

Cheap shot. Really. I am not going to list battles on Usenet that I
participated in. You seem to like to resort to personality of your opponents.
That's fine with me - you only ruin your own credibility. The reason I
came from a "sideline" is because (and I do not know about what's decent
in Finland), but in Russian culture it is not proper to draw attention
to one's own glorious deeds, and that's why I did not expect Vadim to
mention his heroic deeds himself. In fact, even if Vadim did not do anything
for resistance, you would still be a loser and he - a winner in your argument.
Janne, do yourself a favor, and enroll in some creative debating class in
your local college.

> Janne Kivela"

Sincerely,
Oleg Vishnepolsky