HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elson@otc.otca.oz.au (Elson Markwick)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:03:12 GMT
Reply-To: elson@otc.otca.oz.au (Elson Markwick)
Organization: R&D, OTC Sydney, Australia

In article <1992Apr9.160616.14790@berlioz.nsc.com>, alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn) writes:
|> Think about that a minute:  What is the difference between the compression stroke
|> under acceleration and under deceleration?  Absolutely none!  If it was the
|> compression stroke providing the engine braking then there would be no engine braking.
|> The braking is done during the INTAKE stroke.  In a gas engine the intake stroke is
|> trying to pull a vaccuum.  In a diesel engine the intake stroke still pulls all
|> the air it needs through the air intake.  There is no throttle plate to close.

The difference is that during acceleration, you have another cylinder which is
firing, to overcome compression.  Even in a one cylinder engine, the energy
which is put into the moving parts of the motor, by firing, is enough to compress
a cylinder full of air.  Sure it will slow down as it's compressing, but then
once it fires, it speeds up again.

|> 
|> When I release the go pedal on my F350 the engine rpm's drop rapidly yet the road
|> speed barely reduces at all, especially when I'm towing my trailer (GCW = 16K lb).
|> When I touch the brake pedal rpm's almost immediately drop to idle.  If the engine
|> were providing any braking then the engine would not be able to idle at highway 
|> speeds.

Your F350 has an automatic tranny right?  (Or a *very* badly worn clutch ;-)
If there was a direct coupling from the engine to the tranny, the engine
wouldn't slow like that - it would keep pace with your ground speed.

|> 
|> Volkswagen may have installed an exhaust brake on their engines to aid in braking
|> but it is NOT the same mechanism that causes engine braking in a gas engine.

As I mentioned in a previous post - try turning the engine over by hand with
the throttle butterfly propped open.  I'll betcha it's just as hard as with it 
closed.

|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> Alan Hepburn           "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
|> National Semiconductor       a little temporary safety deserve neither
|> Santa Clara, Ca              liberty nor safety."
|> alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Benjamin Franklin

Cheers, Elson

-- 
Elson Markwick | The only good cat |ACSnet:  elson@otc.otca.oz.au
OTC R & D Unit |  is a stir-fried  |UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!elson
Ph: 02 287 3142|       cat         |Internet: elson%otc.otca.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Fax:02 287 3299|          -Alf     |Snail:  GPO Box 7000, Sydney 2001, Australia
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wilson@b11.ingr.com (Jon Wilson)
Subject: Re: Good states for cars. (was Re: Emissions)
Summary: concur with this eval... mostly.
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:12:06 GMT

In article <2fjj8bj@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

I must certainly agree with you on the ease of owning a car in Tennessee
or Alabama. I've lived in both.

In Tennessee's big cities (Nashville, anyway) a "wheel tax" sticker will
cost you close to $100/year though, and you have to pass an emissions
test to get it. This has spawned lots of cottage tuning industry - "Special:
tune your car to pass emissions, then retune it to run right. $39.99"
The workaround is of course to procure a P.O. Box in one of the surrounding
counties. They'll grumble about sending your sticker there, but they'll
do it. They (mostly) charge a lot less for a sticker too.

Although Tennessee is one of the few states left without a substantial
income tax (Texas and Florida also come to mind), it's in deep financial
trouble and may have to institute one soon. Sales taxes are VERY high
(just went up to 8.25% in most locales.)

Tennessee is very serious, however, about using its State Troopers to raise
revenue. It has a large, well-equipped and vigilant force. You can't drive
a hundred miles in Tennessee without seeing four or so. The highway
department collaborates by "landscaping" nice hidey-holes behind abutments
and such.


Alabama, of course, is undoubtedly the easiest place to own/run a car. It's
the only place I know of that doesn't require liability insurance of any
kind. And the state laws governing what constitutes safe transportation
are full of loopholes to allow "farm vehicles" to use the roads. You 
probably aren't charitable if you get stuck behind one of these, but it's
nice to know that headlights/taillights/working brakes are optional as far
as the law is concerned.

The counties vary widely as to how much they soak you for tags. The rural
counties are cheap, and most don't require windshield stickers.

Alabama also has relatively little in the way of speed enforcement. I cannot
even remember the last time I saw a state patrolman in any place other than
Dunkin' Donuts. 


Texas is a bit different. They do "safety inspections", required for tags,
which can easily be gotten around by paying double the usual fee to the
sleazy garages that are testing stations. (There are LOTS of really 
shitty, brakeless, muffler-dragging cars in Texas, most with brand-new
inspection stickers.) They have lots of state police ("Dept. of Public
Safety") and make lots of money on tickets. They would like to be
serious about enforcing insurance requirements, but it's kind of hard
to give a ticket to every other car. (There are lots of "one-day-only"
insurance agencies - write you a policy just long enough for you to get
your tags. Green Card not required.)



Jonathan Wilson
DEC Systems Support
Intergraph Corporation
wilson@b11.b11.ingr.com
From: koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Engine Braking - what causes it?
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:25:07 GMT
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego

In article <181111@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

>In article <5344@nosc.NOSC.MIL> koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz) writes:

>>sheesh, Alan Hepburn wrote a lengthy description answering this very question
>>recently...  also, don't lose sight of the fact that there is a piston on its
>>way from TDC to BDC (providing energy to the system) as another is on its way
>>from BDC to TDC (consuming energy during compression)...

>     If the throttle is closed, the downward moving piston IS NOT
>     providing "power" or "energy" to the system other than the tiny
>     amount of compressed air left above the piston after the valves
>     all close...

Ohhhh?  please explain why an engine can idle with the throttle closed in light
of your above statement.

Face it -- compression is not the contributor to engine braking that the
restricted inlet is at any realistic rotation rate...

>     And if you think it even comes close to the amount of energy
>     that it takes to compress the air, I suggest you go check a
>     physics text on entropy...and stay away from guys in seersucker
>     jackets with engines that "run forever".

with a closed throttle, there is *far* from a cylinder full of air to
compress...

I am quite familiar with Thermodynamics, thank you.  I do not require any
refresher-course.  However, I do suggest that you read Alan Hepburn's article
again.  And read for comprehension this time...

One more time --

the intake restriction imposed by a closed (idle-position) throttle plate is
the only significant difference between an idling (or decellerating) gasoline
engine versus a Diesel.  Since it has been demonstrated that, in general, a
Diesel provides little-to-no engine braking effect (so little that Diesels are
fitted with aftermarket devices to enhance the effect) the production of
manifold vacuum is the prime contributor to engine braking.  Since the
real-world disagrees with *your* views on Thermodynamics, I suggest that
perhaps *you* re-read a physics text on entropy so that you may understand
where your error is, perhaps try a text directed at graduate-level -- that one
might make fewer simplifying assumptions.

Walt K.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: wales@cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales)
Subject: Mail problem with INFO-HONDA list (fixed now)
Organization: UCLA CS Department, Los Angeles
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 19:00:15 GMT

Hi.  I am Rich Wales, the moderator of the INFO-HONDA Digest
(info-honda@cs.ucla.edu; formerly honda@sbms01.msrc.sunysb.edu).

A mail aliasing problem here at CS.UCLA.EDU caused all mail to the
INFO-HONDA Digest (including INFO-HONDA-REQUEST) to bounce between
April 7 and 13.

The problem has now been fixed.  Anyone who tried to send mail to
INFO-HONDA or INFO-HONDA-REQUEST (including requests to be added to
or removed from the list) between April 7 and 13 should try again.

I deeply regret this problem and apologize for any inconvenience
it caused.

--
Rich Wales <wales@CS.UCLA.EDU> // UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 // +1 (310) 825-5683
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Double clutching & Toe-heel shifting
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:34:35 GMT

In article <2301@isgtec.isgtec.com>, karl@isgtec.com (Karl Sewlochan) writes:
* So just to be redundant (and repetetive :-) the sequence you would
* suggest is:
*     - brake
*     - clutch pedal down
*     - shifter in neutral
*     - clutch pedal up
*     - blip throttle (to get shafts matched)
*     - clutch pedal down
*     - shifter in lower gear (without waiting at the gate like I suggested)
*     - clutch pedal up quickly before things start slowing down
*     - back on the gas to drive the corner

In article <1992Apr6.125213.19579@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> asl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (albert.s.lew) writes:

>Can anyone tell me if there is any difference with the sequence described above
>and the following sequence:
>     - brake
>     - clutch pedal down
>     - blip throttle
>     - shifter in lower gear
>     - clutch pedal up quickly before things start slowing down
>     - back on the gas to drive the corner

yes; in your example, you attempt to match the revs between the motor
and the driving wheels, but you _do not_ attempt to reduce the work
load of the syncronizers in the transmission by matching its internal
revs.  Karl's sequence matches revs at both points.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: engine braking - what
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:44:47 EST
Reply-To: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems


in: Message-ID: <5334#nosc.NOSC.MIL>
    koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A. Koziarz) writes:

>perhaps Walt is generalizing from too small a sample set?

WA>not an impossibilty, by any means...  however, it is more likely that I am
WA>generalizing from a different sample set.  while I have no doubt of your
WA>observation, I also have no doubt of mine, nor those of truckers I've had
WA>occasion to converse with, nor that of Alan Hepburn.  the common point in my
WA>assertion of negligable engine braking with a Diesl is that those of us who
WA>agree all drive *heavy-duty* Diesels; those in disagreement all drive
WA>*light-duty* Diesels.  I, admittedly, jumped to the conclusion that smaller
WA>Diesels should behave like their bigger/stronger relatives; but I guess I was
WA>mistaken...

Could it be possible that ALL the "heavy duty" diesels you are
familiar with are _TWO STROKE_ diesels, while ALL the diesels being
used in cars are _FOUR STROKE_?

Could it also be that the ratio of displacement to vehicle weight of
the "heavy duty" diesel engines you are familiar with is much smaller
than that in cars, resulting in much less effective engine braking
force? 

(On another note, how does a "prony brake" [or whatever the correct
term for the active braking system that commercial vehicle often use]
work?)

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: acura@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (james.r.feeney)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Passing cars on the right...why?
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:41:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <Apr.16.11.51.23.1992.18476@blaze.rutgers.edu> steinmar@blaze.rutgers.edu (Dan Steinmark) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.170843.12410@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> acura@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (james.r.feeney) writes:
>
>> I travel the major highways here in N.J. (Gareden State Pkwy, Turnpike, I-287)
>> quite often and I've noticed that on 3-lane roads, people seem to prefer 
>> passing on the right instead of the left. To test my observation I went out
>
>laws in NJ (and most states) is to KEEP RIGHT, except to pass.  Now,
>>  
>Now in cases where the following car is also in the middle lane, and they
>have the option of passing in either direction, but choose the right,
>this can be from one of 2 reasons:
>     1.  Police.  (as you said)  NJ troopers, particularly on the GS Pkwy
>
>     2.  Habit.  NJ is full of LL hogs, and people get in the habit of
>
>Please, Keep Right, and get others to do so.
>
>	-Dan

Well, another "pass on the right or die" happened to me yesterday. I was
on the Parkway in the right lane about a mile from my exit. There was a 
car in the center lane that was going past me but he wasn't going much
faster than I was. In fact as I pulled off he was only about 2 car lengths
ahead of me.

Anyway, just as he was about even with my car a Lexus came up behind him
and rode his bumper until I was just starting to exit. Then the Lexus
dropped into the right lane and took off. Throughout this whole episode
the left lane was wide open! The Lexus also had Maryland tags on it so
it's got to be more than just a N.J. problem.

Jim Feeney
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: HOW GOOD ARE THE'COLOR MATCH'PRODUCTS?...NOT!
Keywords: 41092
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:48:13 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: na
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <7415@brchh104.bnr.ca> ericy@crchh435.bnr.ca (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>
>I can't believe the government allows these companies to make the
>extraordinary claims about thier products. 
>
   Face it Eric, the human reproductive rate would likely grind to a
   halt if extraordinary claims were outlawed.


>
>Bottom Line : You get what you pay for. If this stuff really worked We'd all be
>              driving around in shiney glossy cars with no scrathes.
>
>pardon my outburst
> 
>Ill step down from the soapbox now.
>
>$0.02
>Ericy
Xref: sparky rec.autos:11180 rec.autos.vw:2343
From: kerry@is-next.umd.edu (Kerry Ogata)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Common electrical problem
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:08:38 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Ctr., Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742

In article <1992Apr9.003349.9382@rdr.com> randy%rdr.com@uu.psi.com (Randy Tidd) writes:

>Okay, speaking of bizarre electrical things... on my new GTI (yes I'm the  
>one that posted a few days ago about the coolant light and stuck oil  
>filter), every time I get out of the car, I get a static shock.  It only  
>happens when my feet are grounded (i.e. on the ground) and I touch a metal  
>part of the car, and only immediately after I get out.  It gets worse the  
>longer I drive!  I get some real doozies when I drive even 10 or 15 miles  
>across town to get to the office.  It's gotten to the point where I'm  
>always sure to touch the car with a clothed part of my body to decrease  
>the pain of the shock.

>Okay.  What's up?

It's probably from the floor mats in your car.  I think it should clear
up by spring/summer...you could always change your floor mats!

-- 
kerry@is-next.umd.edu or kogata@wam.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: garzione@convex.com (Michael Garzione)
Subject: Wax/interior care
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:58:26 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I'd like to put a nice coat of wax [or two] and treat the interior of my new 
Pathfinder.  Anyone have any recommendations for products that will stand up
to the Texas summer?  Thanks.

--
==========================================================
Mike Garzione                 Convex Computer Corporation   
garzione@convex.com           Education Center
From: ericy@crchh435.bnr.ca (Eric Youngblood)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re:HOW GOOD ARE THE'COLOR MATCH'PRODUCTS?...NOT!
Keywords: 41092
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:49:12 GMT
Reply-To: ericy@crchh435.bnr.ca (Eric Youngblood)
Distribution: na


I can't believe the government allows these companies to make the
extraordinary claims about thier products. 

If you were to believe them you end up with a paint finish that looks
brand new again! 

I take exception to commercials that show an electric power sander ruining
the finish on the hood of a car and then miraculously 'healed' by thier
miracle cure snake oil. (Funny thing if you look closely the sanding machine
is on the hood to the *right* of the steering wheel, but the "cured" area
that the bottle actually "slides" off of is to the *left* of the steering wheel)

Bottom Line : You get what you pay for. If this stuff really worked We'd all be
              driving around in shiney glossy cars with no scrathes.

pardon my outburst
 
Ill step down from the soapbox now.

$0.02
Ericy
From: jayers@hamline.edu (Judi Ayers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: BMW: Radio Problems
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:45:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: uc.1992Apr9.174515.6488
Organization: Hamline University, St. Paul, MN.


About a month ago we purchased a 1987 BMW 325.  Its a pretty good
car for 5 years old.  One problem though....I left the lights on
and the battery died (of course).  When I got the car started again
the radio doesn't work.  It says "CODE".  Apparently BMW has an
anti-theft radio system installed so if the radio is "ripped" out
the codes will scramble and be unusable to the thief.  Well, must
be the same thing happened when the battery dies.  When my husband
called the local BMW dealer they said if we didn't have the "CODE"
to enter (we don't since the car was used), we would have to
remove the dash and get the serial number off of the back of the
radio, then they could look-up the "CODE" in a computer.

My question is: does anyone know if taking off the dash is a major
undertaking for two people who are not "auto-mechanically inclined?"
OR should we just give-in and take it to the dealership.

Judi
From: carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Accord lease program
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:06:41 GMT
	<1992Apr16.230621.20631@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: jdi@postgres.uucp's message of 16 Apr 92 23:06:21 GMT
bcc: carl


>>  You may have seen adds lately for Honda's Accord leasing program.
>>They advertise some really low monthly rate for an LX -- $209
>>springs to mind.  (60 month closed end, + tax & etc)
>>
>>  If anyone has leased an Accord under this program, I'd appreciate
>>you dropping me a message and letting me know what you ended up
>>paying.  I'm specifically interested in the EX, but any info will do.
>...

>Just to provide a datapoint to anyone who might be interested, today
>I leased a 92 EX 4dr automatic for $1000 down & $270/month, 60 month
>closed end.  (Down includes $380 reg fee, month includes 8.25% use tax).

>I could have done better, but this is the first car I've financed so I
>didn't qualify for the special lease rates.  A salesman mentioned that
>the special rate was 3.1, so if you qualify you'd be down around
>$240/month.  A lot of car for the $.

I bet that if you would have said "either I qualify for the special
lease or I walk" they would have given you the better lease rate.

I would never lease for that long of a time period.  The longer
leases, just as with the longer finance periods raises the cost of the
money (via the money factor or "effective interest" rate).  This means
that you end up paying a LOT more in what usually is itemized on lease
sheets as "rental" and less as depreciation (which is really paying
off the principle).  Your best bet is to go with a three (or sometimes
4 year lease) that has a low money factor (3.1 isn't bad, that's
roughly an effective interest rate of 7.44%).

I'm curious as to the residual value of the car (Accord in this case)
at the end of the 60 months (i.e. how much will you THEN have to pay
to actually own it)?  This is always calculated as a percentage of
MSRP.  What happens is people get lulled into lower payments over 4 or
5 years but find out that in order to buy that car (at the end of 5
years) they still have to pay 5 or 6k (which is probably *roughly* the
amount that I expect the residual value to be for an Accord EX after
60 months)!!!

*Sometimes* there are exceptional lease plans offered on longer term
(I consider 4 years to be long for a lease) leases but these are few
and far between.  We just got into a 4 year lease of an Acura Vigor
for an effective interest rate of 6.3%.  The 3 year lease was even
slightly less than this (very marginally, like .05%) but we didn't
want to have two leases come due at the same time (since I just leased
a Legend).

-Carl-
--
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: johnson@wrs.com (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: Stuff...
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:55:05 GMT

peterco@eff.org (Peter A. Cohen) writes:

>In article  David Johnson, johnson@wrs.com writes:

>>Now Paul, do you acually beleive that the B-210 and Chevette are
>handlers?
>>
>>I think not!

>Maybe not in their stock form, but they are both popular custom jobs, and
>once customized, can provide a very substantial handing package.  (well,
>the B210 more than the Chevette).

>- Peter
 
The fact is that nearly any car can be transformed into a handler. 
A friend of mine campains a pinto in the SCCA ITB class. You wouldn't
beleive how competitive he is. Of course, the car did not come from the
factory like that, and that is what i think Paul was addressing; the
fact that the late model Mazda's that he has driven do not seem to handle
well. Unfourtunately, most automobile manufacturers choose to set-up
the suspension on their cars to suit, what they feel is the average
driver. Which is why their cars handle so horibly; the "average driver"
is an idiot. Therefore, idiotic methods are used to safeguard their cars
from critisism. Except from us,which are so relatively few, that we 
don't really matter. Pretty sad eh.

>DAVE (johnson@WRS.COM)

>92% of Americans beleive that they are above average drivers.
From: cmj@horus.cem.msu.EDU (Chris Jenkins|xxxxxx)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mitsubitchy
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:22:41 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

From article <1992Apr4.030556.20461@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, by ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm):
> 
> From a previous post, regarding Sales Slime,
> Chris Jenkins sez:  "Not at Saturn!"
> 
> To which I reply, look at the rest of GM.
> 
> In a few months they will be like all the rest.
> 
> Jeff

Gee whiz, Wally!  Say it isn't so!!

I have my doubts.  But I also have a lot of hope for Saturn.

We'll see...

---cmj  (an infernal optimist)
From: wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:42:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Insurance recommendations and "Admitted" insurance companies
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID