HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:52:53 GMT

jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:

>From soc.culture.arabic (fwd):

>Upset about killing of a soldier, but no problem in killing a 7 year old child,
>right? Read on...

>In article <102739@netnews.upenn.edu> afm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Santa Claus...) writes:
>>I have just learned that 9 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli army in 
>>clashes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the expulsion of the 400 
>>Palestinians. One of the victims is a 7-year old girl.
>>This news is not confirmed as yet. If anyone has heard anything like that, 
>>please post.
>>
The death of a child is always a tragic event.  It's truly shameful
that the girl's parents were more interested in her participating in
violence against the Israelis than in her safety.  Here in America,
such parents would be be prosecuted for, at the very least,
endangering the welfare of their child.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: american opinion
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Distribution: talk,world
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:36:03 GMT

perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:

>Currently there are 39 blacks in the US Congress.  The current Knesset
>has 8 Palestinians and 2 Druze from my count.  Past Knessets have
>had as many as 12 and as few as about 6 Arab members.  Remember, too,
>that around half of the Arab population of Israel votes for Zionist
>parties, and that some of the Arab representatives in Knesset are in
>Labour or Likud.  In addition, from memory the fraction of Arabs who
>vote is a bit lower than that of Jews (which is not meant to be an
>indictment of any kind against the Arabs of Israel). 

Thanks for the stats.  Can you tell me how many members there are
in the Knesset? (I'm feeling the need to buy an encyclopedia - too
many basic questions asked, and not enough time to go to the library).

I would comment that 39 out of 435, though not exactly reflecting
the black population, seems to be a pretty reasonable percentage 
(8.9% vs. the demographic 11 or 12%).
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
{{{{ ~hot, ~toxic, and ~shallow [90's motto]                              }}}}
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24076 talk.politics.soviet:9986 soc.culture.greek:11863 soc.culture.europe:10790 soc.history:10374 soc.culture.soviet:11551 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:976 soc.culture.croatia:237 soc.culture.bulgaria:2020
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Traditional and historical Armenian barbarism.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 12:13:37 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec23.220031.25726@zeus.ieee.org> sbookey@ep.ieee.org (Seth Bookey) writes:

>WHY exactly is this on the Bosnian bulletin board?  It's all about Turkey 
>and Armenia.  I thought there would be some recent news on what is
>happening now.

I hope this satisfies your inquiring mind.


 "The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination 
  of the Muslim population in the Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, 
  Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the 
  extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government 
  during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII."
                  (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992)
                 

 "Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
  Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
  of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
  are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide 
  perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
  Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
  lands."         (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Solutions to the problem? (was Re: Sgt
Summary: Correction. 
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:15:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.160723.10508@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>His collaboration with the Nazis was far more than just "slightly
>successful."  He sponsored a coup attempt in Iraq to install a pro-Iraqi
>dictatorship. 

The above should read "pro-Nazi", not "pro-Iraqi."

Sorry for the confusion.  Once again, I will be out of town Dec. 31-
Jan.7.  Please email me any responses.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23932 soc.culture.greek:11787 soc.culture.europe:10721 soc.history:10326 soc.rights.human:4642
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: deportaion
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 23:46:24 GMT

osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef) writes:

>>	They were kicked out of Judea and Samaria, parts of the eternal
>>Jewish homeland.  And if they did not want to get kicked out, they had
>>no business joining Hamas.
> 
>It is not Judea and Samaria. All the world knows it is the occupied 
>territories by the Israelis.
>The peace process is all about this.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Arabs started taking those negotiations
seriously, moved off the dime and stopped unceremoniously rejecting
every Israeli proposal while threatening to bolt the peace process?

>Go and read history books other than what you were taught. Palestine was
>there. It is there for all Palestinians.

Before it was renamed Palestine by the Romans to complete their job of
ethnic cleansing, it was Judea and Samaria.

And before the Arabs changed the meaning of the term Palestinian, the
term was generally understood to mean a Jewish resident of Palestine,
with the Arabs there simply recognized as what they were--Arabs.

>Go and calculate the ratio of Palestinians and Arabs killed by Israel to 
>that of Jewish killed by Palestinians and Arabs, the ratio of deportees,
>the ratio of bombed houses, the ratio of POWs, and the number of 
>concentrated camps. It is a good exercise.

Go and calculate the ratio of innocent Jews killed by Arabs to
innocent Arabs killed by Jews.  Now, there's a good, and sobering,
exercise.

Now use the fingers on one hand to count the number of Arab terrorists
who have been prosecuted by the Arabs for killing innocent Jews.
You'll have five fingers left.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
President -- AJIN -- The American Jewish Information Network
       Bringing The Global Jewish Community Together
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Deportee Mistaken Identity Follow Up
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:51:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


>The New York Times, Dec 28, 1992

>"The Israeli newspaper Haaretz, citing army officials, said today
> that 6 of the 415 deportees were victims of mistaken identity and
> should not have been exiled.

That's how fair the trials were.  It makes me wonder whether there
were any at all.

> Oded Ben-Ami, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry, said that he
> was not aware of any "mistakes" in the deportation process, but
> that the families of the deportees could raise appeals.

"Families of the deportees could raise appeals".  Families can't even
get out of their homes to file for an appeal.  Curfews were and are being
imposed on the territories for more than two weeks.  I don't doubt if
some of these families don't know if their relatives are among these
deportees.  Plus, appeal for what?  As someone put it they haven't even
been convicted.

I heard they are going to return these 6 listening to fresh news.  The
question is how?, are they going to abduct them as they did to Sh. Obied,
since they are not allowing any supplies or even the UN envoy to enter
thru the so-called security zone?  The funnier one is "Are they going
to replace them by the new correct ones?"

Is it "the new world order" -or- "the law of the jungle"?
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23983 soc.rights.human:4657
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:28:55 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article <29800@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

[JH] This statement simply has not been proved. In fact one of the expulsees
[JH] was simply a butcher serving meat to one of the other expulsees - he
[JH] was just rounded up with the rest by the soldiers.

The fact is some of these guys are butchers and they serve Jewish and 
Palestinian meat!


-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Palestinian Deportees
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:27:02 GMT

hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:


>According to the BBC (31-12-92, 0400 UTC) the French foreign minister
>has proposed that the UN peacekeeping forces in Lebanon take charge of
>the welfare of the 415 Palestinians forced out of the country by Israel.
>Yasser Arafat has expressed interest in this proposal.

The Arabs have rejected the proposal, preferring to make propaganda
hay at the expense of their brethren.

>Furthermore, such an action by the UN would highlight the historical
>problem of refugees, exiles, and deportees which has been created by the
>formation of Israel, a monolithic, nationalistic regime in a land with a
>historically multi-cultural background.

Like Jordan, which prohibits Jews from residing in the 75% of
Palestine it controls?
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 00:06:43 GMT

In article <4734@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>The world is outraged when one Israeli is dead - 

The western world is no more concerned about half a dozen murdered
Israelis than it is about a few hundred Bosnians.

The Arab world rejoices.

>As Hanan Ashrawi stated, you deal with individuals
>on an individual basis - 

Is this why Muslims seek to kill "Infidels", as a group?
Is this why "Itbach al Yahud" has been the Palestinean call to murder?
Not "Itbach Moishe" or "Itbach Shmerel", but "Itbach al Yahud" (Kill
the Jews).  You are lying.  Tsk, tsk.

>Israel must learn
>that it cannot break the spirit of Islam in the people, nor can it
>break the resistance from the smallest child to the biggest man.

Who wants to "break the spirit of Islam"?  This is known as a
"conspiracy theory".  We'd be more than happy if you guys just went
back to your deserts and continued to kill each other as you have been
for centuries and millenia, and leave the rest of us alone.  We'd be
even happier, in a smaller and smaller world, if you'd stop the
killing, altogether and leaves youreselves alone.  Arabs have worked
tirelessly at destroying themselves; don't blame others for this.
-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Date: 29 Dec 1992 18:49:58 +1100
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:

>In article <1hmr70INNljc@tyl.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>   clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:

>   >In article <1hm7f4INNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>   >>  Both Syria and Iraq made offers to take large numbers of Palestinian
>   >>  refugees under various conditions.  Jordan made them citizens.  Your
>   >>  stolid determination to remain ignorant is a marvel.

>   >Did Jordan grant citizenship to the Palestinian refugees or only to
>   >those legally residing in the West Bank when it was annexed?

>   In 1954, Jordan passed a law that defined as a Jordanian citizen

>   (i) someone who was a Jordanian citizen according to either of
>       two earlier laws, and
>   (ii) someone who was not a Jew, was a Palestinian citizen in 1947,
>       and whose normal place of residence was Jordan at the time of
>       passage of this law.

>   Note that Jordan in (ii) then included the WB according to Jordanian
>   law.  This is from memory, so some details might be wrong.  I am
>   certain that Jews were expressly excluded in part (ii); this was
>   claimed to be in retaliation for Israel's Law of Return.  Note that
>   the law declared that some people were Jordanians; it didn't just
>   give them the opportunity.

>Thank you for your reply.  I interpret it to mean that both
>Palestinians residing in the West Bank (East Jerusalem, Nablus, etc.)
>AND those in UN refugee camps (from the 1948 war) were granted
>Jordanian citizenship.  If this were true, wouldn't the refugee
>Palestinians have had full free of movement (wrt travel and residence)
>within Jordan?  Wouldn't that have been the end of the refugee camps?

A large number of the Palestinians who became Jordanians under
this scheme did leave the refugee camps.  Many went to live in 
Amman, where at one stage (even now??) they formed a majority
of the inhabitants.  I am not sure what proportion of Palestinians
living in Jordan now live in camps, but I think it's less than
half.  The reasons why there are camps at all are economic and
political.  Economically, it is very expensive to provide real
housing to such a large number of people, and the countries
which could afford to fund it, like Saudia Arabia, are more
interested in using the refugees as pawns against Israel.
Apart from that, the Palestinians have political/social reasons 
to resist the disintegration of their society by excessive
integration into Jordanian society.

>Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu

Brendan.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24276 talk.politics.soviet:10042 soc.culture.greek:11927 soc.culture.europe:10864 soc.history:10418 soc.culture.soviet:11641 news.admin.policy:938
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "news.admin.policy" afraid of "ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle"?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:20:20 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <85892@ut-emx.uucp> andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:

>>But why not create a newsgroup called "soc.culture.x-soviet-armenia"? 
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Longer than 14 characters.

Odear. There is a saying in Turkish: 'Are you here to eat grapes or 
to beat the vineyard owner?' meaning, 'Are you here to get what you 
want or to use that demand as a pretext to beat up the person from 
whom you are asking that service?'

How about "xsovietarmenia"? How about "russianarmenia"? How about...

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24536 talk.politics.soviet:10153 soc.culture.greek:11991 soc.culture.europe:10952 soc.history:10486 soc.culture.soviet:11741
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The Armenian genocide of the Kurdish people between 1915 and 1916.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:02:54 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1htde9INN460@garnet.msen.com> josephs@msen.com (Joseph Stroup) writes:

>Cosar-Argic-Mutlu and whatever other name you are known by.

You are speaking out of mere selfishness. And my name is "Argic"
and his name is "Arfa", a Kurdish scholar. 


Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

 "When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster 
  of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular 
  Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of 
  these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.
  These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more
  than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in 
  the eastern vilayets of Turkey."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24061 soc.culture.arabic:5888
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Date: 25 Dec 92 00:05:17 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec24.035253.18735@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>The death of a child is always a tragic event.  It's truly shameful
>that the girl's parents were more interested in her participating in
>violence against the Israelis than in her safety.  Here in America,
>such parents would be be prosecuted for, at the very least,
>endangering the welfare of their child.
 
Yes, the continual murders of Palestinian children are extremely
tragic.  Only they do not bear the same tragedy of the deaths of
Israeli soldiers who perpetuate the ongoing violence in the
territories.  If Israel was interested in participating in peace
instead of aggression, they would put an end to the conflict by
recognizing the rights of all human beings and not justifying their
illegality.  Here in America, such crimes would be prosecuted for,
at the very least, endangering the welfare of the society at large.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24079 talk.politics.soviet:9989 soc.culture.greek:11866 soc.culture.europe:10793 soc.history:10377 soc.culture.soviet:11553 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:978 soc.culture.croatia:239 soc.culture.bulgaria:2022
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Nazi Armenians from France bore the mark 'Legion Armenienne.'
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 12:20:18 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <m0n4d8E-000Q2qC@jack.sns.com> trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh) writes:

> Second  World  War. Although the efficient destruction of Serbian Jewry in
> the first two years of German  occupation  has  been  well  documented  by
> respected  sources,  the  extent  to which Serbia actively collaborated in
> that destruction has been less recognized.  The Serbian  government  under
> General  Milan  Nedic   worked closely with local Nazi officials in making
> Belgrade  the first Judenfrei city of Europe.  As  late  as  19  September
> 1943, Nedic made an official state visit to Adolf Hitler.  Serbs in Berlin
> advanced the idea that Serbs were the  Ubermenschen (master race)  of  the
> Slavs.
  
But, let us not forget the Nazi Armenians, Ahmet. Altogether 30,000 
Nazi Armenians served in various units in the German Wehrmacht, 
according to Ara J. Berkian. 14,000 in predominantly Armenian army 
units, 6,000 in German army units, 8,000 in various working units 
and 2,000 in the Waffen-SS.[1]

A number of these Nazi Armenians were volunteers from France,
Greece, Rumania and Bulgaria who had chosen to commit themselves 
to the German war effort. Derounian says that

"Dashnag Armenians from France bore the mark 'Legion Armenienne.'"[2]

That Nazi Armenians like Dro 'the Butcher' and Nezhdeh sided
with the Germans probably had an impact on the decision of
Armenians who overwhelmingly opted for armed service.

[1] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900
    Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg
    Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 118/119.     
[2] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), in 'The Armenian 
    Displaced Persons,' ibid., p. 19.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Occupation
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:23:50 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1993Jan3.183723.24116@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
>In article <1993Jan3.162751.4004@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> fedimit@wisslc1.weizmann.ac.il (Dan nabuovsky) writes:
>
>>Didn't knew that Arafat is Miss Universe.

>You have obviously never seen Yasir decked out in his skirt, wig, and falsies.

My God, do you mean you were ACTUALLY one of the privileged few who was
invited to the facist drag queen party that Rabin hosted?  (What does HE
look like in fishnet stockings?)

Anisa
	"A vulgar display of power ..."