HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jangi@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Shrirang Jangi)
Subject: Re: Brandon Lee Movies
Organization: Northeastern University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:20:44 GMT

In article <nahilgendorf.51@honors.uoregon.edu> nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.151437.22340@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> jangi@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Shrirang Jangi) writes:
>
> 	<stuff deleted>

>>"Once Upon A Time In China" I and II are some of the most exciting kung fu
>>movies I have seen in years. There are a lot of lousy ones out there, even from
>>HongKong, but these two certainly stood out from the rest. Part 3 of this
>>series is already done and Tsui Hark is shooting Part 4 in Beijing right now,
>>although Pt. 4 won't star Jet Lee. And yes, this is much better than the
>>recent Jackie Chan movies. His Double Dragon (name?) was awful and "Police
>>Story 3" was very disappointing. His new movie "City Hunter" is currently
>>showing but I haven't seen it yet. But watch for any film by Tsui Hark for
>>creative fight scenes (eg. "Swordsman II"). BTW, all the movies mentioned 
>>above are from HongKong, which IMHO makes the best martial arts movies right
>>now.
>
>True, Hong Kong does make the best martial arts movies. I saw Swordsman II a 
>while ago and thought it was actually pretty poorly done, which surprised 
>me, since Once Upon a Time in China I and II were awesome. Oh well...

I agree that neither Swordsman I or II is as good as Wong Fei Hong, but I 
think that the floating rotating sword of Jet Lee and the concept of "sword
chi" in Swordsman II are visually stunning. BTW, Swordsman III is already out.
I don't know if that's the English name or not but the main character is
Eastern Invincible. Jet Lee is not in this one.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: How do real fights start? (was Women's self-defense success stories!)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:21:27 GMT

In article <memo.881091@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>I'd be interested to know (from a wide sample of people) how fights start.
>
>
>If you have been in any situation that "kicked off", how did it start?
>Was the first move a push, a grab, a punch, a kick, a headbutt etc?
>What was the follow up and your counter etc.
>How much talk was there before the physical action started and what words
>pushed it over the edge into becoming physical?
>At what range did all of the above occur?
>
>
>Bill Burgar.


Maybe this falls more into the category of how do fights end, or both:

I was walking home through the parking lot of a shopping center and saw two
guys going at it.  It was clear that one guy was in control, toying with the
other guy, who was drunk.  The drunk seemed to be the aggressor, and the MAist
was playing a sort of "don't push me, I don't want to fight" kind of game...
yet he was not really de-escalating.  I sensed that he wanted to kick the guy's
butt... he wanted to be pushed into it.  

I approached and tried some de-escalation.  I started talking to the MAist,
saying "What are you letting him get you mad for?  He's not worth it."  The guy
responded with a sort of shrug and looked back at the drunk.  The drunk heard
me and started paying attention to me instead of the other guy.  He walked over
to me and said something along the lines of "What the hell do you want?  I'm a
vet; this guy insulted me, blah blah."  I could see the MAist head towards his
car.  The drunk took a swipe at my face and brushed my glasses off my face.
Everything happened fast, so I'm not *quite* sure what I did, but I think I
just quickly grabbed his wrist and quickly let go.  I said "I didn't mean
anything by it, man," and looked him right in the eye.  He may have scowled,
may have mumbled something, I don't remember, but he walked off to join some
buddies sitting on a bench.  I picked up my glasses and left.

	Rich
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wag5@quads.uchicago.edu (john peter wagner)
Subject: Re: Fighting against animals?
Reply-To: wag5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:23:11 GMT

In article <MHIRSCH.93Jan26141025@dynastar.princeton.edu> mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) writes:
>>>>>> On Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:44:14 GMT, reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) said:
>Reid> Nntp-Posting-Host: metis.tti.com
>
>Reid> In article <77570@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>
>>the story of Wu Sung, a martial hero monk of China, who is said
>>to have been caught sleeping by a hungry tiger. If you have
>>ever seen a figurine of a Chinese fellow smacking a tiger
>>in the head with his fist in a Chinatown shop, this is Wu Sung
>Reid> This sounds rather implausible to me.  Why was he sleeping in a
>Reid> Chinatown shop?  And how did the tiger get in there?
>No, no! you misunderstood.  It was the fist that is in the Chinatown
>shop.
>It's an old technique:  When attacked by a tiger, first, put a
>Chinatown shop around your fist, raise your fist (and the shop with
>it, of course) and bring it down on the tiger's head.  Even a modestly
>sized Chinatown shop is sufficient to incapacitate most tigers.
>--
>Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    

	I think YOU misunderstand.  You are confusing the
building for the shop. The shop itself is a collection of capitol
with which the shopowner makes his money. He does not necessarily own
the shop, but rather rents it.  If he lifts his fist through his
shop, postcards, bamboo mats, etc, will fall down around the fingers
as they are lifted.  However, due to the presence of food and foodstuffs
in many china shops it is highly probable that the tiger's fascination
with the foodstuffs will suffice to allow Wu Sung to escape.

			John(?)


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MA in Literature
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:47:24 GMT
Organization: Honest Ernie's Used Ions
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.252.153

In article <MHIRSCH.93Jan27121556@dynastar.princeton.edu>,
mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) wrote:
> The book is "Singapore" by John Ball...
>"The last man I killed was a Karate master."
> Well, this so terrifies our hero that he switches to Aikido strategy.

Former astronaut, underwater-habitat researcher, and wasp breeder Scott
Carpenter tried his hand at the lucrative techno-thriller genre recently
with _The Steel Albatross_ (do I hear a round of bird puns coming on? :). 
Two of our heroes (SEALs, naturally) have a lurid scene on the beach at
night wherein they cascade through the influences of their respective MA
backgrounds before ending up having basically a rough-and-tumble street
fight.

There's some underwater throat-slitting as well, but it consists of a quick
win by whoever can sneak up on his opponent.

The book itself is an entertaining if mindless rehashing of characters and
plot devices as familiar and comfy as an old shoe.  I enjoyed it but
wouldn't recommend going too far our of your way to find a copy.

Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: I don't know.
Date: 28 Jan 1993 14:25:01 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1993Jan27.001434.4463@craycos.com>, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>In article <1k3pdpINNb0t@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>>dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe):
>>
>>Did anyone happen to save a summary of one of the last few flamewars on
>>this topic?  Holy mackerel!  Let's not flounder into this one again.
>>Ignoring it would be the bass option.  I'll resume my perch, now...
>>
>>	just when you thought it safe to go back into the water, 
>>	crabby dave decides to poisson it....
>>	
>>	i shouldn't have posted this, but i do like to balance the scales...
>
>It just gills me the way some folks will try to skate by, posting stuff
>like this to the grouper. No a manta friendly advice will get them to stop
>snapper-ing at the opportunity or change their tuna. Salmon-fortunate newbie
>will read this and eel think that we can't deal with moray serious
>topics.  I thank Cod we don't do this very often...
>
>Steve

ok steve, you win. i give up...i guess you must think i am some sort of sap...

-mukund
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Initiation of motion
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:42:00 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>
>I think I agree with you. When I strike I want to sort of pulse
>my motion into the target, preferably with a minimum of muscular
>tension. When practicing Jing I find I want a sort of emotional

Maximum aceelaration can only be acheived from relaxation, else the 
antagonist muscles interefere. Twitch it in.
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: More origins of stuff
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:05:00 -0500

RT>Does it -really- matter how old TaeKwonDo or some other art is?
RT>No, not in the least.  The effectiveness of the art is what is
RT>important and age has nothing to do with that.  [IMHO]

You want to be careful waving that opinion around. It's logical
and it makes sense; thus, it has no place in any discussion on the
origin of any of the martial arts. Especially, any of the Korean
martial arts.

There's only one measure of a martial art: if it works for you, it's
good; if not, it ain't.

Peace in our time,

Tom
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Paranoia is the beginning of self defense...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: How do real fights start?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:25:00 +0000

My original post went along the lines of:
>I'd be interested to know (from a wide sample of people) how fights start.
>
>If you have been in any situation that "kicked off", how did it start?
>Was the first move a push, a grab, a punch, a kick, a headbutt etc?
>What was the follow up and your counter etc.
>How much talk was there before the physical action started and what words
>pushed it over the edge into becoming physical?
>At what range did all of the above occur?


Unfortunately I have not seen any real answers yet and the thread has
been sidelined to another topic.


Let me clarify why I asked the question. I am involved in some research
where we are trying to build up a database of actual fight situations so
that we can analyse them and build up a picture (from a large sample)
of what the most common tactics are in average confrontations. We
recognise that all situations are different but we would like to see if
there is a common theme running through them. I know that many people
in rec.ma will be able to give many good reasons why such an information
base could not be built and why it would not be a valid sample. I would
like to hear those arguments please, while at the same time enjoying your
positive support.


I understand that many of you may not be proud of the time(s) when you
have been forced to use your martial skills. If you would rather mail your
experiences directly to me, I will keep them in confidence.


Please ensure that you answer the questions in my original post (above)
when you reply.


I would be most grateful for your help in this survey (which is not confined
to rec.ma) and will keep you posted of the outcome (if there is one :-)


Thanks,
Bill Burgar.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:39:23 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <19930125.082913.172@almaden.ibm.com> dcthomas@.vnet.ibm.com (Dave Thomas) writes:
>In <1993Jan24.081525.12201@craycos.com> Steve Gombosi writes:
>>Or, as Miyamoto Musashi would have put it, "sen-sen-no-sen".
>>
>>Steve
>
>Nishiyama sensei teaches it as "sen, go no sen", where he differentiates
>the pre-emptive strike from the strike to the hole created in the
>opponents defenses while the opponent is attacking. Is this what you
>are referring to? Just curious,

Nope.

Sen, go-no-sen and sen-sen-no-sen are *very* different. Sen-sen-no-sen,
as near as I am able to comprehend it, refers to striking when the opponent's
intention is formulated, rather than when it is physically manifested. 
In sen-sen-no-sen, you're striking into the opening created by his 
mental preoccupation with the attack, rather than the one created by his
physical movement. Even though he hasn't moved, the suki still exists.
Since you're attacking an opening that predates his physical movement,
you have a *much* larger window of opportunity. This is very important in
a multiple-opponent scenario, since the timing can become very "tight"
if you're forced to wait for physical motion to reveal targets. All 
purely theoretical speculation on my part, of course - I'm as far from
being able to do this as Dan Quayle is from winning a spelling championship.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Re: -do, -ju(i)tsu and martial arts
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:05:54 GMT

>>>>> On 20 Jan 93 21:10:33 GMT, tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) said:

tk> Partly as a result of some recent email discussions, but also because of
tk> my own on-going deliberations, my understanding of what martial arts are
tk> has changed.  In particular, I now look on my own study of karate (Shotokai)
tk> in a different light.

tk> I'd like to give a summary of these, and would be grateful for any 
tk> comments.  Agreement and criticism is sought equally.

[Lots of good, weighty material deleted]

Well put.  I especially liked where you said:

tk> So the karate-ka who wants to study some throws, or the grappling exponent
tk> who wants to learn kicks is not deviating from their art.
tk> Because their 'art' is combat, the martial way in general.

As and aikidoka who recently started training in Karate as well, I
know just what you mean.  Not all my fellow students do, though.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771       
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:54:17 GMT

In article <C17x63.DH4@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.235903.4284@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.112845.7967@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>
>>>>>It only takes one not guilty out of twelve to acquit.
>
>>>>Actually, one vote will hang the jury
>
>>>This is not true.  A jury can convict without a unanimous decision.
>
>>I think that's only in civil cases
>
>The verdict does not necessarily have to be unanimous in a criminal case.

Wrangle, wrangle, wrangle.  And these are only net.lawyers.  I
still say give them the car.  Get nailed on weapons violations
and/or pop some kid (whom you are going to have to prove was not
just trying to steal your car but acted in such a way as to
justify your use of lethal force), and you get to spend *lots* of
time with real lawyers.  
--
Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What's Isshin Shorin Ryu Okinawa Te?
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:00:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


The subject line about covers my question. I just started attending a
class on campus here. I think this is the correct name, and I was
wondering if anyone has any useful comments on this. I have only
practiced Kung Fu and TKD before.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Is chi real?
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:41:49 GMT

In article <1k4h1hINN26t@morrow.stanford.edu> CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates) writes:
>>"What is REAL," asked the Rabbit one day.
>>
>>        from "The Velveteen Rabbit," a children's classic.  If you did not read
>I also have this experience when reading Dan Millman's children's
>book called 'The secret of the peaceful warrior'.... I always cry
>when I read it to my nieces...

	<slap> <smack> <slug>

	Snap *out* of it girl... can't you see what you're *doing*??

	<slap> <slap> <slap> <smack-O>

[nurse]  Captain! Captain! You're KILLING her! STOP!

	Huh?!... oh,... uh...   gee,, uh... *sorry*...

System Broadcast message from root: 

The system is coming down NOW!!!!  Logoff or risk damage to your files.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Haji Firoz)
Subject: Re: What is Shotokan?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:37:12 GMT

shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
: From which country did Shotokan originate?  What are its underlying
: theories?  And what does it consist of? (physically).  Thanks.


Master Funakoshi was born in Okinawa in 1869. At that time Okinawa had developedtwo types of karate, known as Nahate and Shurite. Funakoshi began training
in the Shurite style when he was 11 years old. Eventually he was credited with
being the first man to introduce karate to Japan giving exhibitions of the art 
in 1917 and 1922 at physical education expositions sponsored by the ministry of 
education. the major universities invited him to help them set up karate
teams, and hundreds of persons studied the art under his guidance.
In 1936 master Funakoshi established the Shotokan Dojo(so named because shoto
was Funakoshi's pen name) at Zoshigaya Tokyo. This was the first karate dojo
in Japan. Although others named his style the Shotokan style, Funakoshi himself
believed that karate is one, and that there is no "style" of karate. In 1948
the Japan Karate Association (JKA) was organized, with Funakoshi as the chief
instructor. Because this organizedtion made it possible for leading karate-kas
to pool their knowledge and ability, from that time onward, prograss was rapid,
leading to the development of the three aspects of present day karate-self-
defense, sport, and physical and mental art.
In April of 1957, Master Funakoshi passed away at the advanced age of 88. But
tens of thousands of karate kas who learned under him remain, insuring that
the art he taught will not die with him. On the contrary, persons in many
foreign countries have shown and avid interest in karate and it is now a world
wide art.

Have a nice day
Haji
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Carradine again
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:57:29 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <1993Jan22.002352.14075@athena.mit.edu> ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross) writes:
>I've seen a lot of David Carradine bashing in the group lately.  I haven't seen
>the Kung Fu TV show in a long long time, but I don't exactly remember seeing a

>bad [of the techniques which were filmed from beginning to end and at full
>speed :-) ] ?  No one has gotten specific, which I find to be suspicious.  
>	I'm not saying I wouldn't agree with you all if I saw a rerun today, I
  
 

      I think most people tend to notice the "Philosophy Track"
      used to give the show an oriental feel.  I believe that at
      appropriate points in the show the director would turn to
      the Zen Union Shop Steward and nod.  This nod would indicate
      that the Laugh, I mean Philosophy Track should be turned up.

      "Yes Grasshopper ratings have risen this week thanks to the
      Godzilla vs Madonna episode."
   
     :-)


-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club   Portland Oregon USA
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The latest destroyer book
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:28:43 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu


speaking of the Destroyer series, take a look at the latest one (#91).
theme parks will never be the same again....

-mukund
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: SEALs
Date: 28 Jan 1993 20:45:05 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1993Jan26.200618.11494@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>	Yes, they do.  Most notably, the National Guard has seen an ever 
>	increasing role in drug enforcement operations.  I don't have the 


Sorry, but wrong again, at least in the context of this thread.  The 
National Guard belongs to the governor of a state and only becomes
an arm of the federal government when they are ordered to duty by
the president.  I suppose a governor can employ his National Guard
ANY WAY HE WANTS TO (assuming the people of the state let him stay
in office) and the National Guard may have been used by some states
in drug enforcement.  In this context however, they are not an armed
force of the United States.
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Evil Black Belts (Re: Fighting against animals?)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 20:33:04 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <MHIRSCH.93Jan27112409@dynastar.princeton.edu> mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch) writes:
>>	I seem to recall the Marines getting into severe trouble
>Jim> I don't remember the details.  A DI took his troops into that swampy
>Jim> crap around Parris Island, and several drowned.  That was a LONG time


Long time ago it was --  1956, I think.  An interesting sidelight is that
highschool football teams kill more athletes in a year that Marine Corps
boot camp has, at least since 1956.  Not counting suicides, of course.  I
don't have the actual numbers at hand, so I wouldn't bet anything very
valuable, but I do believe that is a true statement.

I think the thread you are responding to is about the evil, sadistic
DI beating up recruits.  I almost posted a reply asking if that was
the US military, or some foreign country.  Stories like that are
not uncommon with the Korean armed forces, and I'd imagine there are
a few other countries like that too.  Probably end up behind bars
in America.
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The ultimate art
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:58:06 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

>	Greenoch is the absolutely deadliest, most perfect MA ever conceived.
>	It is the only true MA, PERIOD.
>
Just to get the record straight, this is a mere pale imitiation of The
One Way of Life and Death - the traditional martial art of the 
Lancastrian wandering magi - namely 'Ecky-Thump'. This revolves around
transcendental use of that weapon-to-which-there-can-be-no-defence; the 
universally feared (but only by those sufficiently exalted within their art
to have been entrusted with the knowledge) Black Pudding.

So, if you pass a very new corpse covered in very old blood, you have seen
someone rash enough to mug a grandmaster of Ecky-Thump.

Beware
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts