HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaron@cse.ucsc.edu (Aaron Emigh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate Bullshit
Date: 17 Nov 1992 02:21:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.ucsc.edu

In article <Bxs2xn.AC7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>Regarding older martial artists...
[...]
>There are a few fortunate souls who
>manage to preserve their health/strength/speed into old age
>(Sig Kufferath comes to mind)
[...]

I work out at Sig Kufferath's school.  I'll vouch for that statement.
You can tell he's gotten a lot of exercise in 55 years of teaching
jujitsu.  :-)

>Dakin
>burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Aaron Emigh
aaron@iit.com
aaron@cse.ucsc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:45:47 GMT

In article <BxytnD.JrL@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> phd07@keele.ac.uk (H.C. Patel) writes:
>	Basically, I want to know what are the purposes of forms ?. 
>I do not see why there is so much emphasis on them. How can it help someones
>ability as a martial artist ?. Finally, how should one perform a form ?.
>That is, do you picture an oponent in front of you while performing ?.

	I'll give you the standard answer as I understand it.
	Different forms may emphasize different things - some forms have a
strong emphasis on conditioning ( sanchin for instance).
	Some may emphasize teaching fighting under particular circumstances:
in the naihanchi and tekki katas of Japanese/Okinawan styles, there is an
emphasis on lateral movement, and training to fight out of a horse stance. I
have seen Chinese spear forms which seem to capture the necessary movements
for recovering a weapon which has slipped out of control.
	In the general case, forms teach your body to move in cambatively
useful ways, and through long practice, how to move powerfully and efficiently
while maintaining a clear mind (that moving Zen stuff)
	Forms also embody the strategy and spirit of a style. In this way,
they have what people may consider artistic merit (the spirit really only
shines through once you are something like a master)
	And, maybe someday, you will come to appreciate forms because of what
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: farant@terapin.com (Faran Thomason)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: THE MASTER
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:07:31 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <axolotl.722221091@syzygy>, axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
writes:
>fwong@bnr.ca (Frank Wong) writes:
> >It's not too bad. Story is basically ; Jet Li comes to U.S. to visit
> >his Sifu, has to battle bad white guy who has beat up Sifu and destroyed
> >his herb shop (Bo Chi Lam). The fight scenes are o.k. , but there is
> >no comparison to Once Upon A Time In China : Wong Fei Hong 1 & 2.
>
>I don't think many westerners will get to see Once Upon A Time in China 1 & 2,
>since they are deliberately not subtitled.  (If I directed a film with 19th
>century white kung fu experts called "Tiger" who spoke perfect Cantonese,
>I'd make sure it wasn't subtitled. :-)
>
>Jet Li was the one using the umbrella, right?  Impressive, to say the least.
>What styles is he best known for?
>
>
>--
> Iain Sinclair    axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Well Once Upon a Time in China is subtitled. I know of at least 3 versions and
one of them is subbed. I should know I have seen it.
From: roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: book
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:14:13 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

>don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto) writes:

>> of Martial Arts, Inc.  selling hardback copies of musashi's
>> book of five rings for $10.95   215-925-1161      800-345-AWMA

     I am still waiting for some crazy person with
     time on their hands to come forward with a better
     translation.  The Japanese version, Original as well
     as the many different translations into modern 
     Japanese are quite long.  Many volumes and the entire
     work makes 'War & Peace" look like a little lite after
     dinner reading.

     Has anyone on this net seen or better yet own one of 
     these monster set of information?  The popular English
     book appears to be a 'Reader's Digest' version.  



-- 
Robert Stroud       Robert_Stroud@simulacrum.wv.tek.com
Obukan Kendo Club
Portland Oregon USA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan & Badass Karate (belt system)
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:33:16 GMT

In article <1e92d5INNivf@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
<In article <BOWERS.92Nov16110409@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
<>In article <1992Nov15.190126.206@pages.com> kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
<>>In article <1992Nov14.045400.26626@gagme.chi.il.us> phantom@gagme.chi.il.us  
<>>(Leif Ericksen) writes:
<>>[...snip snip ...]
<>>> 	True, the original belt systems was teh dirtier it was the
<>>> more experience you supposedly had.  THUS the tradition that YOU NEVER
<>>> EVER was your belt.
<>
<>>'never wash you belt?
<>
<>>This sounds like folklore, and I find it hard to believe arising from a
<>>society that places great value in bathing and cleanliness.
<>
<>It should be noted that the belt system is _not_ Japanese, but is a
<>transplant from Okinawa, where it originated.  In traditional Japanese
<>styles, your were a student, accomplished, or a master.
<>
<>Belt rankings were not prevalent in the Japanese styles until this
<>century.
<
<we need to get this on the FAQ!
<
<as far as i know, the belt system was introduced by funakoshi. while on the
<topic of belts, did kano also use a belt system in judo? steve...bud...anyone?

This is pretty funny!  As far as I knew, Kano introduced a ranking system.
I could be wrong (gasp :-)  There is a small discussion of ranking in 
"Kodokan Judo" by J. Kano.  I couldn't find anything about an origin of 
ranking in the book, though.

Anyone have any sources that can settle the issue (not that I'm really
concerned all that much by who founded it).
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jmitten@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James A Mitten)
Subject: WUSHU CLINIC
Summary: Wushu Clinic being held in Columbus, Ohio.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:06:46 GMT


Howdy all!!  Just a friendly note to let you know about a Wushu Clinic being
held in Columbus, Ohio:



         ***********************************************************
         *                WUSHU CLINIC                             *
         *          by:  Sifu Nick Gracenin                        *
         *                                                         *
         *      DATE:  Sunday -- December 20, 1992                 *
         *                                                         *
         *      TIME:  1:00pm -- Wushu Basics                      *
         *             3:00pm -- Advanced Wushu                    *
         *                       (Wushu broadsword, possibly       *
         *                        spear and staff)                 *
         *                                                         *
         *       PLACE:  Ho-I Academy, Columbus, Ohio              *
         *                                                         *
         *       COST:   $30.00 per session                        *
         ***********************************************************
         *  INTERESTED?  send messages to email boxes:             *
         *                                                         *
         *    ctornow@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   (Carina)         *
         *    jmitten@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   (Jim)            *
         *                                                         *
         *    or call Ho-I at (614)-263-4701 to make reservations  *
         ***********************************************************



Hope to see you there!!!

Jim
From: gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Greg baker)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Black Belt time
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:56:33 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue) writes:

-  Ouch! That sounds rude.  Give him a chance: some people don't "feel" the 
- need for ranking or whatever.  Just because he hasn't tested yet, maybe he
- doesn't feel ready, or doesn't feel the need to prove his ability.  If he
- went to MA as often as I go to church, it'd take longer to get to 1st Dan
- than it has already.
- --Jowfus
- 

 If that sounded rude, I appologize. I guess I should clarify what I 
tried to say....Some people seem to forget the idea behind the ranking 
system. If I used Mr. Seebass as an example out of turn, I'm sorry. I'm 
not trying to hack up his accomplishments. One should never see, however, 
testing as a forum to prove oneself to others. Testing is a system to 
TEST oneself. The scale used to test yourself should always be...waht you 
were against what you are.

case in point. I am a 1st dan, I know a second dan (no big surprise) who 
is testing for his 3rd dan. In reality, he/she (to protect the innocent) 
is not all that Physicaly adept. I am better physicaly than he/she. Yet 
he, compared to what he was as a first dan, is truely a second dan who 
should be testing for his/her 3rd. Testing is not a place to show off 
your skill to impress other people, nor should it be a need to prove your 
ability to others. Testing should be a personal accomplishment, a trial 
to overcome.

did I make myself clear or only more confusing?

.greg.

///////////////////// B.A.K.A. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 ////////////gbaker@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
--------------------------------------------------------
_________________STATION z e b r a______________________
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer)
Subject: Re: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Keywords: SEALs, JKD
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:37:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.233308.1@novax.llnl.gov> urbina@novax.llnl.gov writes:
>I was reading in an old issue of IKF that Paul Vunak is exclusively training
>Navy SEALs in his system of Jeet Kune Do.

I have no clue.

>When I was in the Navy I tried to start a martial arts conversation 
>with a SEAL but he said his training is classified.

I have a friend who was on SeAL team 3.  We've discussed training, nothing
specific, due to the fact that he didn't feel comfortable discussing it
(classified), what we did discuss was the fact that they had no training
as an art, it was fighting and killing (obviously).  They were taught to
use whatever worked and trained in various fighting styles and ranges. 
When i discussed and demonstrated techniques with/to him, i found that most
of their training is in the school of:
"Don't get hit, if you do get hit, make sure it's not vital, hit the enemy
 back with a killing blow."
From there, they worked on all sorts of weapons, fighting distances (joint
locks, holds, throws, punches, kicks, blocks), and emphasized the idea
"WHATEVER WORKS!" Whatever gets the job done.  He said that a lot of the
fighting techniques and training were 'dirty tricks' and that you just
'tried to fuck someone up as fast as you could without getting hit someplace
vital.'

>I don't know what new training is going on now.

He just got out in the past 4 months and was in it for 6 years.

>Guy
   Nik
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More fogey fighting
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:31:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov18.203130.13916
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Nov17.064712.15039@alw.nih.gov> drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
>   o   A number of accounts of dominant fighters in their 40's 
>       (sounds right to me!), 50's and 60's.  [But, we are not 
>       just talking about mature fighters in general here.  We 
>       are talking about the "Master Po" archetype, *really* 
>       old fogeys, 70+ year old guys.]

NOT firsthand, but I have heard stories of encounters that Ie Chang Ming
had in which he dealt with opponents when he was very old.  He was mostly
into point-manipulation, by then, so I heard.  There is likely no way
that I could verify the stories.  If I had the opportunity to ask Sin The'
if he saw any of the incidents when he was young, then that would be only
secondhand...  Of course, he would be a good candidate for having been
whomped by an old fogey while he was in his prime.  Have to wait for the
book to come out...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: rec.martial-arts.humor
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:18:50 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Nov17.210759.21827@athena.mit.edu> ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross) writes:
>In article <1248@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
>	.
>	.
>	.
>>and the testee was asked by the teacher which is more important, timing
>>or speed.  The testee replied, "Timing, speed means nothing if the
>>window of opportunity is missed."  The teacher added, "Also because as
>
>Yes, I've *always* maintained that when it comes to the testes, timing is
>**very** important.  (One prefers a glansing blow to a direct kick in the
                                     ^^^^^^^^

Cute.
Very cute.

Steve
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:21:47 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <JON.92Nov19105944@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>
>Perhaps I should mention that there is a major difference between
>Kendo kata and Karate kata: Kendo kata are done with a partner.  This
>forces the Kendo student to accept one single interpretation of the
>purpose of each technique, because each technique is directly applied
>to a real opponent.  On the other hand, having a real partner allows
>the Kendo student to explore the realm of timing more thoroughly,
>since imaginary opponents tend to attack us only when we're ready.

For reference, Chinese fighting styles commonly include both
weapon and empty hand forms performed with a partner.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Kendo tournament report
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:35:48 +0000

Robert Stroud  (roberts@usa.wv.tek.com) writes:
>In article <JON.92Nov9120130@zeus.med.utah.edu> jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>>
>>       Last weekend, the Beikoku Kendo Renmei held its first National
>>Kendo Championships in Los Angeles, California.
>>
>>       My second opponent was a very large man.  He outweighed me by
>...
>>the referee.  With just a few seconds left in the match, I scored a
>>decisive head blow with a withdrawing motion (hiki-men).  All three
>>judges's flags went into the air, but then they waved it off.  As I
>>moved backwards after the blow, I had stepped out of bounds a third
>>time.  My opponent was awarded another point, and the match.
>...
>>clean Kendo to clearly defeat him, despite the judges' decision.
>
>    Jonathan, You won the hikimen point, if it happened as you stated.
>    The rulebook clearly states that a jogai will not be called if
>    a point has been scored.  The following is for reference;
>
>From the All Japan Kendo Federation Rulebook titled "Kendo Matches and
>Judging Regulations, Items to Remember For Carrying Out The Matches".
>In Effect from October 1, 1987
>
>  Section 8: Foul Play
>   Chapter 21: The following actions are prohibited:
>
>    1.  JOGAI:
>              Stepping out of the court during the match. (Except after
>              getting the point and if the point was cancelled due to no
>              ZANSHIN.  In this case there will be no JOGAI.)
>
>I am sorry to hear you got a poor call against you.  I just lost a match
>in Atlanta after the alleged Kote (Wrist) point hit me in the bicep.  It
>is all a part of tournaments.


I've never actually seen a Kendo tournament so I have a few questions.


1) Is there no electronic gear for detecting points, I would have thought
that the Japanese would have put something together by now. Then the above
type of bad call would not occur. Since you are wearing armour anyway I
wouldn't have thought there would be a weight problem.


2) Where can I go in the UK to see a Kendo tournament. I guess there must
be a British championsh, anybody know when?


3) Where can I find a list of clubs in my area that I can go along to and
maybe have a few "casual" lessons (no time for serious study just now!).
Any tips before I go?


Bill Burgar.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer)
Subject: Re: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Keywords: SEALs, JKD
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:49:53 GMT

In article <1eecsaINNh62@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:

>Sounds very similar in conept to the Israeli unarmed combat technique
>taught to the IDF.

Not familiar with them, sorry.

>...the simple, effective techniques, and survivability.
>Not an art at all.

Exactly, he emphasized that emphatically. He said there was no art, no beauty,
just strait simple things to kill the other person. It wasn't art, it was
killing (which is good, I'd rather have armed forces practicing practical
killing moves than drilling blocks for 1.5 years), it comes down to
what works to kill someone and the training time they have. 

Nik
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Combat effectiveness?
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:21:09 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <4254@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <722248782snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>>Judo I dismissed right away
>	Pfffttttt.

What he said.

>>Now, I want to know what you lot consider the single most effective
>>fighting art.  
>	Track.  

I second the motion.  I think emphasis on the 100-meter high hurdles in
particular would provide excellent self-defense training.

            -Michael



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Navy SEALs and Jeet Kune Do
Keywords: SEALs, JKD
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:51:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1eecsaINNh62@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.143751.23031@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, npalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicholas P Palmer) writes:
>|>
>|> From there, they worked on all sorts of weapons, fighting distances (joint
>|> locks, holds, throws, punches, kicks, blocks), and emphasized the idea
>|> "WHATEVER WORKS!" Whatever gets the job done.  He said that a lot of the
>|> fighting techniques and training were 'dirty tricks' and that you just
>|> 'tried to fuck someone up as fast as you could without getting hit someplace
>
 THere is an ex seal training at my aikido dojo. he presently is
practicing aikido and aikijujutsu i believe. He has had training in
jeet kun do, tae kwon do and shotokan (i think). He told my friend
that when he was a seal, they used combat hwarang-do. can anyone
clarify this?

Dzu

ps i don't know if he was allowed to reveal this info or not....but
that's what he said
From: troyer@mitre.org (Tom Royer)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:52:56 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <BxytnD.JrL@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> phd07@keele.ac.uk (H.C. Patel) 
writes:
> Finally, how should one perform a form ?.
> That is, do you picture an oponent in front of you while performing ?.
>         
Yes.  According to my instructor:

After the first hundred executions of a form, you know and
remember the moves and techniques.

After a thousand executions, you will no longer have to imagine an 
opponent,
you will see him.

After ten thousand executions, the people watching you will
see him, too.  In fact, that's the best way to judge the execution of
a form:  how well you see the performer's opponent.

--
Tom Royer
"If you're not free to fail, you're not free."
                                            -- Gene Burns
From: dampier@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (david dampier)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stand for punching bag in room
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:34:44 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

Funny you should ask about a bag stand right now.  I have seen several 
advertised, and we have one in our dojang which we bought for almost $300.00,
but is worth maybe $50.  Just yesterday, I received a new advertisement from
Century showing off their new bag stand.  It is designed to sit in the corner
and an arm extends out from a very wide (looks stable) base at a diagonal from
the corner.  I haven`t actually seen one, but from my experience with the one
we have, it looks ten times better.  It goes for $190 wholesale with suggested
retail of $300.00 and is supposed to be available on December 1.  Hope it 
helps.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Full contact no protection competition
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:26:04 GMT
Keywords: unprotected, competition, sparring, full-contact, ouch

In article <1992Nov14.194356.19654@pages.com> kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
>I know there have been an on-going open invitation competitions in Taiwan
>for some time. I understand the rules to be full-contact with the exception
>of strikes to the eyes, throat and groin. Elbows and sweeps are allowed and
>only cup protection is worn (for men).

	Two guys from the school where I train are going to Taiwan today for
the Kuoshu competition.
	The Kuoshu competition has taken a brutal and dangerous turn in recent
years. I wish them luck, and safety - and to any other folks out there who
have fellow students going over for the competition, I hope that your friends,
win or lose, some back safe and sound.
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: dunger@crsa.bu.edu (David Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Keywords: Daddy
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:08:51 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing


	I bet my daddy can beat up your daddy!
From: princecr@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kicking with instep vs. ball
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:03:09 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

> 
> As has been pointed out, the foot is covered with a nice hard shoe, but 
> the shin isnt. Considering the tibial nerve runs down the shin in an exposed
> position, making it such a good target for causing foot drop and making the
> leg useless for such trivia as standing on, isnt it risky to use it as a 
> weapon? Particularly if it is blocke with something hard. Have you not then
> rednered yourself inoperable and unable to cope with followup attacks?
> 
> Please feel free to be VERY rude, I ask from a position of complete ignorance
> for future reference.

if you perform the kick with propor technique the nerve won't be a problem.

chris.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts