From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Logging (Argh): CFI flight instruction in IMC?
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:53:43 GMT

In article <BvGqHp.94z@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>In article <69636@hydra.gatech.EDU> randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler) writes:
>>Another logging question - and I haven't seen this one asked recently:
>>as a CFI, (but no CFII), can you give dual instruction to somebody 
>>while
>>	1) Under simulated instruments (hood)
>>	2) While on an IFR flight plane
>>	3) While IMC
>
>Yes to all three.  There are no restrictions in parts 61 or 91 as to
>the flight conditions in which a CFI may give instruction.  It's probably
>not a good idea, since one of the major parts of CFII training is how
>to give flight instruction to a student while still scanning for traffic
>and making sure the plane stays right side up in IMC, but it is allowed
>by the regulations.
>
>>I've gotten a split answer locally - some argue that a CFI can give dual
>>in any of the above conditions (assuming catagory/class/medical/currency
>>issues are satisfied), it just can't be counted toward the 
>>required 20 hours instrument instruction.  Others have said no, only in
>>VMC when not on an IFR flight plan.

Last I read, it was 15 hours [by a CFII], but you still need 40 anyway.

>
>They are overstating the privileges of the CFII rating.  A CFI may give
>flight instruction in any circumstances where the CFI can legally be
>acting PIC (and some, arguably, where the CFI can't be, like a CFI with
>an expired medical giving instruction to a private pilot, but we'll
>skip over that).

Oooops.  A CFI may only give flight instruction within the limitations
of the ratings on his flight instructor certificate.  e.g.  I have a
AMEL rating on my pilot certificate, but cannot give AMEL training.
To be really bizarre, since I hold an INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE rating on
my flight instructor certificate, I can give instrument instruction
in a ME aircraft, but not ME training.  (I need the AMEL rating on
my pilot certificate though to act as safety pilot.)

Whether you are IMC or VMC should not matter.  However, a CFI must
remember that when operating in conditions that the [student] pilot
is not rated, the flight is on your (CFI's) pilot certificate.  And
likewise, if you need your pilot's certificate, your medical must
be current.

IMC or on an IFR flight plan requires either the student to be rated
and current, or the instructor to be current.

There is precedence for a CFI (non-instrument) to give instrument
instruction such as student pilot operations.  My advice, to minimize
the legal loopholes, is to restrict your instruction to attitude
flying.  If the student desires to conduct approaches, agree that you
are no longer a CFI, but merely another safety pilot.

Obviously it varies, by my opinion is that it takes a good 10-15 hours
of attitude flying for a low-time pilot to master the aircraft.  It
may be hard to convince the student, but without his having those skills,
moving on to approaches, navigation, and communication is a waste of his
money.

Kerry