HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: EUTHANASIA: Winston
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:28:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24098
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



Jon Pastor writes:
>Of *course* the dog would prefer to be trained, but it sounds like a dog with
>serious mental and/or physiological problems, and Janice can't afford to take
>risks with a child on the way (in case you didn't read her post very
>carefully).  If you have children, you'll understand that no dog, no matter
>how much you love it, is worth the risk of serious danger to your child.  Keep
>in mind that this dog has already bitten two people, one seriously and without
>warning; how many chances would you give it?  Do you wait until it maims or
>kills someone?  We aren't talking about annoying, or even merely destructive,
>behavior; we're talking about behavior that poses a danger to Janice, her
>family, and everyone the dog comes in contact with.

Actually, I've gotten less hate mail than I expected.

Of course the dog will bite someone else, and of course it's a pressing
problem.  Maybe there's two kinds of dog lovers, though.

It's so easy to say that basically love and all that stuff will produce
a loving dog; but having a dog can be educational about love - very often,
and not only with dogs, it is thoroughly corrupt, concerned with itself, etc.
This is almost automatic for adolescents, so it gets a good foothold
in rpd.  It doesn't work with dogs.

It reenforces itself, just as sappy training methods do, by interpreting
the failure that's almost inevitable with a decent dog as a defective
dog; they then proceed on to the next dog.  How many times have you seen
and heard ``he was abused by the previous owner'' and such things
as an explanation for a failure to teach even the most elementary manners?
Yet that's where the demographics are, and so the training books will
pour out.

A step up from the loving produces loving school, is the alpha wolf
school; which fails on dogs that can't be dominated, in my book the
really good dogs.  Talk about viciousness and uncontrollable aggressiveness
are corrupt versions of the fact that the dog can't be dominated.
Then they talk about breeding problems and move on to the next dog.

Duke, in ``Swiss Family Robinson,'' was given to Koehler by his owner
because ``he bites everybody.''

Koehler, if you read it, anticipates that your dog may bite; he anticipates
that your dog may be indominatable.  Far from worrying about your having
a defective dog, he aims to provoke a bite, so that you can say ``no biting''
under circumstances that make sense to the dog, that he can go along with.
That's how you cure biting.

He does his best to disabuse you of the idea that loving produces loving,
and you'd better go along with it while you're training.

You may be surprised what love comes out.

Koehler claims his method always works;  Vicki Hearne says she knows of
exactly one failure, for a biting dog whose owner actually used Koehler,
to cure biting.  Please compare with the method you use.
From: joep@cbmvax.commodore.com (Joe Pizzirusso - Manuals)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Collies in an apartment
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:24:52 GMT
Reply-To: joep@cbmvax.commodore.com (Joe Pizzirusso - Manuals)
Distribution: na
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA


well...its only anecdotal, but both my collies...age2 or so are happy to sprint
around in circles outside, but when inside they seem to do little more than
hold down the carpets while waiting for you to scratch them.

as long as you get them out regularly they're happy to doze or just hang out...
like most animals, dogs like to conserve energy by dozing when not doing 
when nothing better presents itself...

piz

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: mary@mkirk.b24a.ingr.com (Mary Kirk)
Subject: beserk puppy
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:08:12 GMT

Hi everyone,

Close to three months ago, my husband and I ended our search and brought
home a black standard poodle puppy.  This is our first dog, and we have already
grown much more attached to her than I would have ever imagined.  She is truly
wonderful; many, many thanks to everyone who helped us in our search!

This past weekend, Kodi was playing in the backyard.  My husband went outside to 
check on her.  She started growling at him, and then began barking a very
strange, crazy bark.  He was worried and called for me to come outside.  I ran up
to her, and could see that she was going beserk.  She was foaming at the mouth
and jumping all around, while barking this terrible bark.  She wouldn't let me
near her.

My husband and I panicked and ran around trying to think of what to do.  After
about 30 terrible seconds, she stopped and came up to me with her tail tucked
between her legs.  She had wet herself.  We took her inside and looked her over,
and I saw a horsefly fly out of her fur.  I'm sure it was a horsefly because I
caught it and examined it.

Other than being exhausted that night, she was back to normal.  Kodi has never
exhibited this behavior before.  She seems to be a happy, confident puppy.  Could
all of this trauma been caused by a horsefly?  The vet said that it could, but I
would feel alot better if I heard from someone else with a similar experience.

Thanks so much!

-- 
==========================================================================
 Mary Kirk       
 Intergraph Corporation
 mary@mkirk.b24a.ingr.com
 (205) 730-8154           
==========================================================================


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: betsy@rainbow.uchicago.edu (Betsy Weatherhead)
Subject: Re: Stopping greyhound track
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:34:07 GMT


I think it would be perfectly appropriate to allow all of us dog lovers to
voice our opinion on the proposed dog track to the relevant politicians who
will vote on it.  Get their names and addresses and I will send my opinion,
even if they aren't on e-mail.  Seriously, I think quite a few of us will
be willing to drop a line telling of our intentions of boycotting the area
if a dog track is installed.  


-- 
                              O             betsy@rainbow.uchicago.edu
_          __                  \            
  \      /    \       -- >      O           E. C. Weatherhead
   \ __ /      \ __ /          /            5734 S. Ellis  Chicago, 60637
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long)
Subject: Re: huskies & training
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:56:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct30.143154.9982@menudo.uh.edu> st1pt@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:

> Recently, a young couple (and their husky pup) moved into the house
> next door to my grandparents. They were planning to take her to 
> obedience class. But when they mentioned this to their vet, he
> told them they would be wasting their time trying to teach
> obedience to a husky--something about them being working dogs
> and their brains are too small so they can't learn very much.
> (The VET said this, NOT me!!!!)
(rest deleated)-

I can't believe the Vet said that - (I hope they didn't graduate from A&M)
Anyway, besides getting a NEW vet, like one with a brain, I would tend to agree  
with all of the other comments to your post.

I have a 2.5 yr.old Siberian and she is extremely smart - to much for her own  
good- but she is also *very* independent. 

It's very easy to show off her intelligence - First I give her a command, but  
suppose she's not in the "mood", then she acts like she had no idea what I  
said! - then  I reach into my pocket or get a treat that I have hidden, and she  
will do *any* command I have taught her in the past, even things we have not  
practiced in a while.  It' s quite clear that she knows the words, it's simply  
a matter of motivation, or attitude.  This is why Huskies get the label of  
"untrainable" or stupid.  

I think that Vet should ask Susan Butcher if she thinks Nordic's are stupid!

Good luck,

James(and Kiva the Siberian) 
in Aggieland,TX

--
jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu			
Electron Microscopy Center
Texas A&M University
College Station, TX 77843-2257
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: eln314m@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Ms ML Hong)
Subject: Foxhound
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:51:43 GMT

Does anyone have experience in keeping a foxhound as a pet in the
suburbia ? Foxhound is not a common breed in Australian and I can't
find much information from the library either.

Thanks in advance.

Mun Li
From: dgm@garnet.berkeley.edu (D.G. Meads)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: beserk puppy
Date: 12 Nov 1992 23:49:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov12.200514.16226@gvl.unisys.com> pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor) writes:
>I think that I remember hearing stories of horses going pretty berserk when a
>horsefly bites; anyone else heard similar stories?The first question I'd ask
>is whether this is the first (only) time she's been bitten by a horsefly.  If
>not, and if she didn't react badly other times, then suspect something else as
>the cause.  If so, suspect the fly, but keep your eyes open.  
>
>Dogs do appear to react pretty dramatically to some sorts of pain or
>discomfort.  When Katie (black Standard Poodle) has eaten too many cotton
>balls, and one gets stuck coming out the other end, she'll drag her butt on
>the sidewalk -- which I would guess is pretty uncomfortable.  Our old dog
>chewed up a big piece of plexiglas grid one day because he was lonely,
>bloodying his mouth.  So they're capable of acting pretty bizarre.  Katie acts
>like a lunatic sometimes without any provocation, 
>racing around with her butt skootched under,
-------------------------------------------

When I read this I had to laugh!  This is how I describe one of my greyhounds
when he goes nuts running around the dinning room table!  I guess since there
isn't enough room to stretch out and sprint this "skootched under" action
is the best way to achieve speed in a small area!

I'll have to go home and tell ol Psilocybin that he's not alone in his
madness!

:)

Debbie Meads
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jag@iti.org (Jacqueline A. Giles)
Subject: Re: TATOOING DOGS
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:46:14 GMT

In article <27430@oasys.dt.navy.mil> 275s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Wendy Bortnick) writes:
>Hi,
>
>Has anyone had their dog tatooed.  I was wondering whether it is painful
>and how long does it take.
>
>Wendy
>275s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Wendy Bortnick)

Yes I had my 1st show ridgeback tattooed on her belly.  I don't
think it was too painful but very irritating as she struggled the
whole time.  It may tickle, but there may be some pain although not
as much as getting a bleeder when trimming nails.  I had my SS# put
on and it took about 10 minutes.  I will be getting our two newer
show dogs done before attending any benched shows.

Jackie Giles


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: bds@mbunix.mitre.org (Smith)
Subject: Re: Dog eating cat food.
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:11:16 GMT

When I had a cat and a dog, I would set up an area for the catfood and
litter, and separate it from the surrounding area with a baby gate
that was opened enough for the cat to get through but not the dog.  It
worked great.

Barry
From: plemmons@mth.msu.edu (Steve Plemmons)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Scared Dogs
Keywords: Afraid
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:26:48 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University, Dept. of Mathematics

In article <int402h.721034988@mdw039.cc.monash.edu.au>, int402h@mdw039.cc.monash.edu.au (Mis R.L. Wail) writes:
>Could someone please tell me what to do with my dog who is scared of our lino
>floor.  She will only enter the room(the kitchen) when she is given food.  Even
>that is becoming a problem.  When she was a puppy she would run around in the
>room and now that she is slightly bigger (still not fully grown) she slips and
>slides all over the floor.
>We have tried most ways to get her used to the floor but nothing works.
>Please Help as that room is the main room for her for most of the day.
>
>Thankyou
>
>rebecca
>


What finally broke my Chow was a trip to our Cabin with no carpet at all.  She
was forced to get used to it and has little problems now.

See Ya,

Steve
-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@  Steve Plemmons                    As a former fetus, I oppose          @
@  plemmons@mth.msu.edu              abortion! - Living Epistles Shirt    @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
From: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Itchy & Scratchy
Keywords: fish oil
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:28:05 GMT
Reply-To: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH

In article <BxA4Au.75C@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
writes:
>Go to your local discount drug store (I use Savon), and look for a
>bottle of 250 capsules each 1000 mg of "Fish Oil Concentrate"
>(I use "Your Life" brand.)  Expect to pay 20-25 dollars (US)
>for it.  

For a bargain in fish oil concentrate (OMEGA-3 polyunsaturates), you can order
1 bottle of 240 capsules @ 1000 mg each from SDV at $5.88, or two bottles of
240 for $10.44. Product name is "EPA 1000". 
Shipping and handling for the entire order is $2.00 
To request a catalog or to place an order, call 1-800- 535-7095 (min order $15
to use toll-free number). 
I've been very pleased with the quality of their vitamins & their prompt
service. Fellow netter Don Church recommended them to me.

Marget Johnson
--
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Help with Shepherds
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:49:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24123
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



Kathleen Brewer writes:
>old lady that still likes to chew (gum) toys. I believe that wether or
>not you are having a problem, you should take your dog through at least
>a basic obedience course. This will establish you as the pack leader,
>help to prevent future problems and make you and your dog happier and
>easier to live together.

Yes, on basic obedience. (Hope that you get a good course!!)

If it's a good course, you won't be the pack leader; for example
with an indominable dog, you do not dominate him.  Obedience
nevertheless works - it works on a cooperation drive, not a
dominance/submission drive.

It is very impoverishing to the idea of relationships between
masters and dogs to think of it as alpha wolf.  It sounds very
expert, as if we were all little Konrad Lorenz's in here, but
it doesn't apply.  It's a way to avoid responsibility, is all.

Look, it's better than the teddy-bear idea of dog training, ok?  A step
up from adolescence into college science.

But there's no idea at all of a great dog; no dog you can write
a story about.  SO THERE'S NO WAY YOU WILL ACKNOWLEDGE IT WHEN
YOUR DOG SHOWS IT TO YOU.

The teddy-bear school has more idea of that, but doesn't see
their part in achieving it.  The pack-leader school sees the
necessity of training, but loses the original point, if I can
put things that way.

Good obedience courses look to developing the character of the dog,
and it is the character that you see forever after.

It seems to me, with my Dobie Susie, that she is interested in
what I say, attentive to it; without a trace of dominance and submission.
Why?  Well, maybe because I am interested in what she says.
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: behavior modification or dog training
Summary: that reminds me of my last experience with behavior experts
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:49:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24179
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



The Corgi reminded me - the neighbors of my parents had a corgi.

One day my father told me, barely suppressing his mirth, that
Ben was in trouble - he had bitten the maid.  This
is a very rich neighborhood nowadays apparently.

Anyhow, he went on, chuckling at the ridiculousness of it all,
they had called in a dog behavior expert, and he had interviewed
both Ben and the maid.  You can imagine the scene.

Of course the dog was put to sleep, but at least they had a
diagnosis, and everybody was happy.

Any trainer could have fixed the problem.

I'd met them often on walks, the man and Ben, with Ben pulling on
the leash, and the man saying  ``Ben!'' in a deep authoritative
voice.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: loftis@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Loftis)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Stopping greyhound track
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:49:13 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

|Maybe y'all can help me...I'm on a horse racing mailing list, and some of 
|the people on it REFUSE to believe that greyhound racing is especially
|cruel.  Well, I posted on that list an explanation of what I perceived to
|be the many problems with dog racing, and that seems to have make everyone
|drop the topic for now.  But should this arise again on that list, I would
|love to have a coherent set of arguments to make based on people's first-
|hand knowledge of what goes on with racing greyhounds (and those of course
|deemed unworthy for racing, like Debbie's).  Since I've never been to a
|dog track (and never will go) and as of yet haven't been involved in 
|rescuing these wonderful animals, I don't see myself as a knowledgable
|source.  Can anyone help me out?


I am not trying to defend Dog Racing, but as I previously posted, I
believe that Horse Racing is not that much different.  Both are
inhumane, but I also feel that there are probably more dogs sufferring
in the lab than on the track circuit.  I understand that a lot of
Greyhounds end up as Lab Animals (at $500 a piece).  

I also am appalled at the total number of dogs that are mistreated,
starved and put down everyday.  This is due to dog owners who do not
spay or take care of their dogs.

I guess what I am trying to say, there are lot of suffering animals out
there, not just Race Tracks.  

I have seen the numbers and heard about all the awful things that
happen to Greyhounds.

NOTE: These are my opinions, not that of my employer.  I do not belong
to any Greyhound Groups nor am I part of the Greyhound Racing Circuit.
I have two Whippets, they have brought me closer to Greyhounds and their
lives than I previously knew.
From: rhuls@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (Robbin Huls)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Don't leave your dog in the car!
Keywords: uh oh
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:21:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Nov11.162131.27925
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Nov10.112626.10101@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA) writes:
>	One of my friends last week was out rowing, having parked his car 
>	with the 2 Golden 6 month old boys Dover and Marcus in situ.
>
>	He was gone for approximately 2 hours. On his return, not only had
>	the puppies locked the doors, and chewed the car seat covers
>	but they had EATEN the dashboard and literally destroyed it.
>
>	The steering wheel was down to the bare metal, the plastic of
>	the dash pulled off.. and the wiring pulled out....
>
>	If the puppies had hit one of the live wires it could have been r
>	eally nasty... but they survived the experience (so far).. 
>	but the car cost $2000 to repair.......

Yet another reason not to leave a dog or dogs in a car alone.  Besides
the fact that they could knock the gear shift into neutral and God only
knows what the car could run into or over...like a cliff or a kid, OR
someone could easily break into the car and steal them, OR in as little
as 10 minutes they could die from heat exposure (even on a cool day if
the sun is hot enough), OR they could freeze in the winter as they can't
heat the entire car with their body heat as they could a dog house or
cave (this for the person who wanted to leave the yellow lab puppy in
the car while snow mobiling)...there are any number of things that could
cause harm to them.

So if you can't take them with you, leave them at home!  Please.

Robbin
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Scared Dogs
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:33:13 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us's message of 10 Nov 92 08:18:00 GMTLines: 7

Make sure your pup's toenails are clipped short enough.  If they are too long
they can hurt when s/he walks on uncarpeted floors, not to mention that it
makes for even worse traction.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Distribution: jadpc2
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 11:06:05 -0800
From: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Subject: Re: How do you fight a race track?
Comment-To: toolan@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Reply-To: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
X-FSC-PATH: 202/703 701
X-FSC-PID:  RA 0.04

  I do agree that rules for humane treatment should be Strictly
enforced.  These dogs produce the big bucks for people, and they
deserve gratitude for what they have produced.
  You seem to feel that minimal care is the same as inadequate care. 
I think if the dogs have their needs met, are kept clean and healthy
that this constitutes adequate care.  They are not pets. Which is not
to say that pet dogs always recieve good care and treatment.
--- FMail 0.92
 * Origin: HILLCREST COMMUNITY BBS, SAN DIEGO. HST 619-291-0544 (1:202/703)
From: eufnlasn@ux1.lbl.gov (elizabeth finlayson)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Story for someone who wants to say "OH NO!!!!!"
Date: 10 Nov 1992 19:30:08 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: eufnlasn@ux1.lbl.gov (elizabeth finlayson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.lbl.gov
Keywords: uh oh

My favorite chewing story wasn't done by puppies.  My parents had
two dogs one 12 or 13 and one 10.  The older dog was a black lab
who was known as perfect dog.  The other "flat coated retriever"
was palmed off on my parents by my brother.
Anyway Robin and Shasta were left at home
over the weekend with a housesitter to come in a care for them.
They got into the pantry where the cat food was kept and pulled
out all the cans.  Then they pierced the cans and sucked out the
cat food from inside.  I didn't believe this story either but 
the second time it happened by parents took pictures.

EUF
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Ugly sounds
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:38:15 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs

In article <Bx9I5K.4o4@fig.citib.com>, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
wrote:

> Let's try it again.  Your attempts to insult
> people are ineffectual - like this "Pootsie"
> stuff. You're trying to insult me by calling
> me by a pet name and you can't even get the
> name right.  Even if you *did* get it right,
> it wouldn't have any effect.  

No effect.  Beyond, of course, creating in you an
overwhelming need to tell me how ineffective it is.
As a provocation, it worked perfectly.  You're a 
stooge, Pootsie.  This was a silly argument to get
involved in.  The very act of arguing argued against
your argument.  

But have a nice day, anyway...

*X*
From: lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:06:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker Award
Organization: HP Response Center Lab