From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:03:11 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <C19zr4.4xA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>In article <30324@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, hogue@cs.arizona.edu (Justin C. Hogue) says most sayishly:
>>In article <memo.881091@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>>>I'd be interested to know (from a wide sample of people) how fights start.
>>>
>>  This oughta make you think....
>> At an arcade, two guys my size hog the game from me and some kids.  After 
>[story]
>
>This is why I make it a point to myself never to be "obtrusive" until
>I'm at least a 3rd gup.  

Like Joel I have to wonder...why 3rd kyu/gup? 

>By obtrusive, I mean if someone says something
>"Hey asshole, blah blah blah" and I reply "Hah!  <sarcastic response>".
>Or as Jowfus said, "That's not fair."  Whether you're being sarcastic or
>sincere or mean, the person you're addressing may or may not take it
>offensively and decided to try to kick your ass.
>
>I know one kid (a 16-year old, I believe) who is VERY aggressive and
>mean and stupid.  Someone will say something and he'll (the 16yearold..
>we'll call him Dork). :)   Anyway, someone will say something and Dork
>will misinterpret it, either deliberately or not, and start a fight.
>i.e. "You better shut up, I'll have ta beat your ass."  And if the other
>person gets pissed, then it's a fight.  Dork has no fighting ethics.
>He'll keep punching and kicking until the person is down, then he'll
>keep kicking them in the sides, and when the victim says "Ok, stop!",
>Dork will just say "Don't get smart with me!" and keep kicking.  He's
>also messed around with my friends, too.  Needless to say, I have this

Someday he'll mess with somebody who is carrying a 9mm and that will
be the end of that. He doesn't know what a real fight *is*. Someday,
he'll find out.

>little "things to do when I'm a blackbelt" list, and Dork is on it. :)

Then you're no better than he is, now are you? What you're really saying
is "when I think I can get away with it, I'm going to bash the hell
out of people I don't like". This is exactly what your testosterone-
poisoned friend is doing. The problem, Sam, is that there is always
somebody just a little bit bigger, a little bit more skillful, a little
bit meaner, or a little bit better armed. You won't recognize this person
until he puts you in the ICU or in the morgue. This is what is going
to happen to your acquaintance "Dork". He will end his short and rather
unremarkable life writhing in a pool of his own blood, urine, and feces
on the floor of some low-life bar, whimpering for his mother. They
will put him in a box, dump him in the ground, and nobody will remember
him - not even the guy who cut his guts out. His most lasting accomplishment
will be to feed the worms. Does that make you feel better? If that doesn't
satisfy your craving for revenge I don't know what will...

>While we're on the topic, I know blackbelts aren't invincible or
>anything, but I think it's a confidence thing.  I know that, personally,
>after I had gone through years of training and had become a blackbelt,
>I'd feel pretty good about myself and sure as hell wouldn't hesitate to
>talk back to someone who was giving me a hard time.  

Sam, 

From your previous postings I infer that you're, shall we say, a little
young (although this is probably referred to as "chronologically challenged"
these days). Fortunately for all of us, this is curable. Unfortunately
for you, there are two ways tin which this cure may be accomplished. *If* you 
last long enough (both in life and training) to attain "black belt" in any art 
where having such a rank has any meaning whatsoever, you'll develop enough 
wisdom and judgement to realize just how monumentally silly you're being.

Violence is a very serious business - it's not a game. Anytime you 
allow a situation to get to that point you are staring death in the face.
Very few things in this world are worth dying for.
Save your energy for those that are.

For what it's worth, Sam, I've been training a little over 20 years and
I *do* hesitate to escalate those kind of situations. I was almost 17 
when I started training and I think my general attitude was rather
similar to yours. I outgrew it. You will, too.

>Now I'm just a white belt, 

Yup.

>and when someone starts hassling me, I remain unobtrusive
>and just take it, which I don't really like doing

Well, that's because you don't yet appreciate the wisdom of your 
"beginner's mind". Nobody ever promised you that every experience
in life would be pleasant. It'd be a hell of a lot more unpleasant to
be gut-shot after you responded to "hassling" from someone you didn't
know was packing.

>.  This doesn't mean
>that when I'm a blackbelt, and someone bugs me, I'd throw them across
>the room.  

I'm relieved.

>As our instructor said, avoid a fight at all costs, but if
>you have to fight, do what you must.  

Listen to him. He's a smart guy. 
He's not saying "don't go out and waste people for grins", he's saying 
"violence is only justified when you're in real, imminent danger and there's
no other way out."  Someone "hassling" you does not constitute
mortal danger. You have the option of defusing the situation by not playing
the hassler's game. Take that option.

>I don't think I'd be egging him
>on, but if someone started making rude comments about my best friend,
>I'm not going to sit there and not say anything (as I do now. me wimp!
>:).  Any one else feel this way?

EVERYBODY feels this way from time to time. It's just your lizard brain
acting up - part of the price we pay for having glands. 
Keep a lid on it, son - you'll live longer.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts