HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game"
Organization: Jenny Agutter Fan Club
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 11:24:14 +0000

In article <1993Jan2.043535.26102@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>The actors who played the soldier and his girlfriend were in a bizarre
>British film a few years ago which involved cannibalism at a fancy restaurant
>a la Sweeney Todd; "Eat the Rich", if my memory serves me.

I'm not sure about the soldier, but the girlfriend certainly was, though
it took some time to work it out. And if you thought Eat the Rich was
bizarre, did you ever see "I bought a vampire motorcycle" ?

Weird...

Nigel.
-- 
[Nigel Whitfield                               nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk]
[For details on the uk-motss mailing list mail uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk]
[*****  All demon.co.uk sites are independently run internet hosts   *****]
From: jcav@ellis.uchicago.edu (JohnC)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game"
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:18:26 GMT
Reply-To: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things

In article <1992Dec30.223325.23080@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>I can't recommend this film highly enough.

Saw it last night.  It's superb.  I agree completely with Rod's statement in
another article that this is a _moral_ film, in the best sense.  It's also
well-written and exquisitely acted and directed.  I cried during several
scenes (this does _NOT_ usually happen to me at the movies).  Afterwards I
felt energized.  Go see it already!!   :-)


-- 
  ______     John Cavallino - B0 f++ c+ g++ k s++ e h- pv
  \    /     queer person              
   \  /      EMail: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu
    \/       Talk requests: jcav@quads.chicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gpb@gpb-mac (greg berryman )
Subject: Re: ObMotss:  Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Organization: SPS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 00:27:24 GMT

prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:
: 
: What is ObMotss?  
: 

OBligitory motss subject.  Generally used when a thread wanders off into a
discussion of the price of yo-yos in Afganistan or something equal in 
non-relavance to motss.

Greg.

--
My words, not Motorola's.   * ______ *
gpb@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com     * \ BI / * I will NOT ride in the back of the bus.
Greg Berryman (512)928-6014 *  \  /  *         SILENCE = DEATH
Motorola Austin, Texas, USA *   \/   *     First, be true to yourself.
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 31 Dec 92 06:30:13 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec31.032000.10182@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>>mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:> 
>>I don't see how this follows from CO2. If FooWare has an
>>anti-discrimination policy and they violate it, that's a breach
>>of contract, and I don't see how CO2 would prevent you from suing
>>successfully. Granted, CO2 prevents the law from *mandating*
>>non-0discrimination; but if a company sets up such a policy
>>voluntarily, they would be bound by it the same way they'd be
>>bound by any other agreements.
> 
> 	CO2 doesn't distinguish what's beiung argued, it only
> states that discrimination on the basis of orientation can't be used.
> Therefore, in CO's eyes no breach of contract exists, because
> I'm' not allowed to claim the breach took place.
> 

That's true. The wording of the amendment is that in CO, no suit can be brought
claiming sexual orientation as a discrimination target.

In a civil case of breech of contract, you'd have to prove that NO OTHER
reasons were used in the firing. The company could get out of it simply by
stating that you weren't living up to job expectations.

Even though you know it was for sexual orientation.

Bites, huh?
David
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:17:45 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) wrote: 
->Ron Buckmire asks:
->>What are other people doing for New Year's eve in LA?
->
->Going to San Francisco.  ;-{)##]

thanks for beating me to the punch (so to speak) ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cramer is our problem too.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:46:18 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec31.034907.11780@spdcc.com>

Bob Donahue writes:
>We created the group, we set the tone...

We control the vertical, we control the horizontal.... ;-)

 
() I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the
() intelligence. There's a knob called "brightness," but it
() doesn't work.
()      -- Gallagher
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Parents figure it out
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:03:22 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison

In article <725780456.AA00879@tdkt.kksys.com>
Mark@tdkt.kksys.com (Mark Steiger) writes:

>My parents figured out about my being gay over christmas.  I haven't
>heard anything from them since then and I'm alittle worried about what
>they're going to do.  My parents are extremely anti-gay and
>conservative.  If anyone has any ideas on anything I can tell or send
>them, please send me a note.

First priority: taking care of yourself.  You're an adult (I
presume), entitled to lead your life as you deem best for
you.  Be very patient; the present has been years in the
making, and this change is but one of many along the route.
A resolution could also take years to develop.

Especially if they are as anti- as you think, they will need
a lot of time to sort things out, to make false starts,
realize errors, etc.  You have quite a few options
concerning how to approach it with them.  One of the best is
to avoid being uptight yourself where they are concerned,
for that anxiety communicates itself to them very readily.
Relate to them otherwise as normally as you can, being
friendly, relaxed, confident, etc.

You might write them or send them a copy of "Now That You
Know." While parents are typically fairly important figures
in our lives, it could come to a really unbridgeable gulf;
don't court this outcome, but don't be afraid of it either.
Such things do happen, and it's not the end of our lives.
This relates back to the first point, obviously.

If there's a P-FLAG chapter near them, that may help them
with understanding and adjusting.  One of the most common
fears of parents is "ohmygod, my child is going to be
misrerable" (they do know about our oppression, to this
extent), or "my kid will die from AIDS" (most parents have
very wild ideas about the plague).  They will have emotional
stresses from the situation, so you will have to be patient
and understanding about that, too.

If things go well (eventually), prepare yourself to be glad;
if they don't, prepare yourself to be thankful for your own
blessings.

Stay in touch.  A lot of people here will be concerned on
your behalf, I'm sure.

<> I am trying out a lot of ideas about sex and gender. None is
<> quite so simple as the familiar version, which rests on a
<> couple of traditional axioms that I've explicitly rejected:
<> that physical sex is always the determiner of gender and
<> that heterosexual pairings take priority.  It is amazing how
<> many new possibilities open up once these restrictive
<> notions are discarded. --Mara Chibnik  (mara@panix.com)
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:08:51 GMT

rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou) writes:

>Austin's ordinance includes sexual orientation in its nondiscrimination
>list.  21.06 (not 26.01) prohibits certain sexual acts performed by 
>glb, not for just *being* glb folks.  And next week the Texas Supreme
>Court begins hearings on ruling it unconstitutional!

Hmmm, do you happen to know WHEN Austin passed it's ordinance?

And shame on all of you [and me, too] I just checked the latest version of
larry@bradley.bradley.edu's non-discrim list on the QRD and "Austin, TX City Of"
is clearly listed.

So, I think we can be retty sure Austin has a non-discrimination ordinance.
Cool beans. Anyone know of other cities in Texas that have similar provisions?

Hmm, I checked the /pub/QRD/qrd/info/LISTS/non-discrim-12.09.92 list for 
Seattle and it also has a non-discrim ordinance.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. `D.C. in 93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"I think every straight guy should have another man's tongue in his mouth 
atleast once." -Madonna, quoted in NEWSWEEK, quoting from The ADVOCATE.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re:
Date: 1 Jan 93 06:01:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan1.060131.20379
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1i02veINNftp@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>My personal experiences tell me that it isn't as bad as 
>I read people here saying it is.

*What* personal experience, you oaf!?  My God, you do come out with some
howlers.  Why don't you take your skepticism to soc.culture.jewish or
soc.culture.african-american, just for starters?

>Others say it is.  I
>am looking to reconcile in my own mind the reality of 
>the situation.   

Hmmmn.  Maybe you should consider writing a book "Gay Like Me"...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: elc@cup.portal.com (Edward L Cole)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Pedophilia
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 01:33:17 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

In a recent responce to the ageism issue I stated that the 
sexual interest in young males, even those over the age of
18, is driven by the same motivation as pedophilia.

Assuming the legal and feminest communities are right:

Young men, even though they are legally of age, are still
prone to the social and sexual manipulation by older men.
The argument most commonly given for the prohibition against
sex with young people is that they make an uninformed decision
and are without power and thus are abused by the older
partner.

Assuming the proponents of intergenerational sex are right
(e.g. NAMBLA):

The community of self-proclaimed pedophiles long ago stripped
the pre-adolescent connotations from the word pedophile. It
has long been used to used to describe sexual interest in 
young men (capping off,roughly, at around age 22). According
to Dr. John Money a better term for this interest would be
EPHEBIPHILIA.

In our culture adulthood is not *really* respected untill
there is significant self-sufficiency. The drive toward
toung men is many fold, not just sexual. The term 
"pedogogical eros", for example, describes the non-sexual
but erotic relationship between between a teacher and student.
From: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: GLAAD: Calvin Klein places gay ads
Date: 30 Dec 1992 01:32:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



WELCOMING CALVIN

It's vital that more corporations support gay media. Calvin
Klein, who we've criticized in the past for not advertising in
the gay press, has finally taken the plunge with ads (featuring
singer Marky Mark) in _Out_ magazine.

Encourage more gay advertising (since we _are_ a major part of
his market) by writing:

        Clavin Klein, President
        Calvin Klein, Inc.
        205 West 39th Street
        New York, NY 10018

Also write Barry Schwartz, Chairman, at the same address.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:59:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec21.215922.12999
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Dec21.141228.13237@bsu-ucs> 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman, Ball State University) writes:
>WE do need a division. I don't know about your guys, but I do not have
>the time to wade through literally thousands of postings each day.

It's not literally thousands of postings each day. The most I've ever
seen posted to motss in one 24 hour period was around 200 messages. I
think the average is closer to 100. If our newsfeed weren't so flaky
I'd start collecting statistics.

>WE need: *.politics, *.activism, *.misc, *.news

I see a bias here :-)

>I need the network of gay and lesbian people as a resource in my
>activist duties.

soc.motss.info. Separate the information from the rest of the chatter.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Indifference, the plague that moves throughout this land
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:14:23 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <Bzn9pu.EFI@unix.amherst.edu>,
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.141228.13237@bsu-ucs>
> 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman, Ball State University)
> writes:
> >I, in turn, also support a change from MOTSS to either
> >queer or lesbiangay.
> 
> I won't oppose a change from "motss," but I *will* vote against *any*
> proposal for soc.lesbiangay rather than soc.lesbigay.  Boy, that was a
> surprise.

Oh.  I thouanght it was just a typo.

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*kylie* n. a boomerang" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)
Subject: Practicing Walking Away
Summary: Sad song but the way I feel summed-up nicely 
Organization: sdf full-shell Public Access Unix - Dallas, TX - 214/436-3281
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 08:12:22 GMT

This morning I woke up an hour before dawn
You're sleeping beside me, your face to the wall.
I can't stand to leave you but I know I can't stay.
That's why I'm practicing walking away.

This love has no reason, no way it can last.
I put on my jacket, find my keys and my hat.
I knew that to love you, my heart had to break.
That's why I'm practicing walking away.

Each time we fall we're filled with love.
This time I know: I know _too_ much.
But knowledge is useless, my heart won't obey
That's why I'm practicing walking away.

I reach out to touch you before you awake.
Your hair on the pillow. Mmmmm, the smell of your face.
I'm so very foolish. I'm so, so afraid.
That's why I'm practicing walking away.

From _Kristina Olsen_ by Kristina Olsen on a Philo CD


ObSteveG: I just needed to post this. Good thing they can't scan teardrops.


-- 
Steve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240
marco@sdf.lonestar.org
loveyameanit.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra)
Subject: Out at work, continued
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:56:59 GMT

Day 1 at Microsoft--scene--Human Resources

"...available to *legally married* spouses of employees..." I read
aloud, somewhat unhappily, from one of the many benefits sheets.

Young, clueless looking woman surprises me with
"yeah, isn't that too bad? I'm not even gay (I have *no* idea if
she thought/knew *I* was), and I think we should have one of those
whadd'ya call'ems yeah, Domestic Partnership thingies.  In fact, I
think I heard something about it on the news last night, that
the county [King County--surrounds Seattle; Seattle itself already
has a DP ordinance] may pass alaw for Domestic Partnerships!"

So, yeah, so far, I'm liking it here!

[And thanks for the MS addresses]
-- 
 * Sandy *   "I'll believe Avon treated men and women equally the day I see
       	     him kiss a man, tell him he's beautiful when he's angry, kill
     	     him and then gloat over it."    Sue Clerc <sclerc@andy.bgsu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright)
Subject: Re: Christmas decoration spotted
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:01:55 GMT

In article <ROISE.92Dec17225804@sumax.seattleu.edu> roise@sumax.seattleu.edu 
(Linda Roise) writes:
...
>BTW, does anyone know why gaynet has nothing coming in, at least to UW
>and SU netnews?

We, here at IU, haven't been getting GAYNET for several months now, ever
since they moved the server to gallifrey.kent.edu; I've written repeatedly
to the maintainer and have had no response, so I've given up.

-Tom Albright

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|                                   \                                         |
| INTERNET: albrigh@ucs.indiana.edu  \    I believe in reincarnation, and     |
|   BITNET: albrigh@iubacs           /\   I'm coming back as a pansy.  AGAIN! |
|                                   /  \                                      |
(-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-:
From: Cread@Fwva.Saic.Com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:03:44 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

Be charitable - imagine the handicaps striving to be of interest while
living such 'normal' lives!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:13:38 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Dec22.175228.14662@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:

>I'm sure your queer friends with children appreciate your sentiments, James.

I am entitled to my opinion.  I don't care for children and don't care to
ever have any.  I don't like reading birth announcements either.

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:53:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Lincroft, NJ

In article <1hadcfINN57a@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>By starting points, what do you mean? [...] That rape-murders are bad?  
>Sure, I go along with that too.  But I have a problem once she goes 
>beyond that.

I take her starting points to be questions like, "what are the cultural
roots of sexual violence in our society?" Like you, I'm firmly opposed to 
rape-murders (hey! call me a liberal!). But there are several ways to 
analyze rape-murders. 

One way would be to look at each one separately, as a single individual's 
aberrant act, unrelated to any of the other rape-murders. Another way to 
look at it, though, would be to look on rape-murders not as a collection 
of horrible but unconnected incidents, but as the product of a society 
where sexual violence serves an awful purpose -- in the same way that 
lynching African-Americans served an awful social purpose in recent 
American history.

While I don't subscribe to the concept of collective guilt, I do think it's
ridiculous to believe that you can exist as a social and ethical being in
a cultural vacuum. I was and am shaped by my culture's messages about gender,
race, and sexual minorities, and it is a very valid exercise to think about
how those messages play themselves out in the lives and acts of individuals.
-- 
||| Polly Powledge
||| p.s.powledge@att.com			<- unchanged
||| att!pegasus!psp or psp@pegasus.att.com	<- new
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:05:12 GMT

In article <Bzo2DH.DFx@cs.columbia.edu> 
ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes:
>Every once in a while I'll read on the local bboards in the places I
>have accounts at, that Mr&Mrs so-and-so had a brand new baby, vital
>statistics of the baby follow, and the message ends with how the
>father is proud and the mother is resting at the hospital. The message
>is invariably congratulatory.
>
>So here are my questions:
>
>1. Is it a het thing, and I just don't understand?

Probably, though I've seen similar messages (not on CU bboards, though) from
motss couples.

>2. Is there something intrinsic to be proud of on the part of the
>father? The only thing he has proven so far is that he has a working
>reproductive system.

Some men think having a working reproductive system makes them a *MAN*, sort
of like the whole size thing.

>3. WRT #2 above, is the father being congratulated on his bedroom
>prowess, and the mother on being fertile? 

Yes.

>4. Why do we never see such messages by same-sex couples? Or single
>parents? Or adoptive parents? 

I've seen it for motss couples. As for adoptive parents, people still argue
over whether one should let *any*one know a child was adopted until the kid
is 21 or so.

>5. Am I the only one with the (suppresed) urge to post followups along
>the lines of "who cares?" or "only 10 pounds? You can hardly make a
>pot roast out of that!"

Probably not.

>6. Should I really be working on finishing my thesis and not bothering
>soc.motss with my morning (very late night, actually) bitchiness?

No. You should go to sleep.

-jenneke

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu