HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cstone@husc8.harvard.edu (christopher stone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: after finally seeing ds9
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:44:12 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <C0pppz.EBA@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> muellerm@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Marc Mueller) writes:
>In article <rawdon.726774096@cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>>
>>What makes you think O'Brien is not commissioned?  I thought it had been
>>established that he was an ensign or a lieutenant or something.
>>
>
>
>The rank of chief has always been that of a noncommissioned officer.
>Traditionally it is a senior enlisted rank in which an enlisted person
>advances to a level where a crewman starts to take on some of the
>responsibilities designated for an officer. A chief is considered
>to have advanced to a level above that of normal enlisted and
>wears a uniform that resembles that of an officer.
>
>A chief can be commissioned and advance to either warrant officer
>(lots of respect) or an ensign (no respect). Many chiefs choose
>to go warrant because ensigns tend to be treated like they don't
>know anything. The advantage of going ensign is that warrant officers
>are not allowed to command ships.
>
>/R 
>Marc Mueller, LT, USNR.

The assumption you are making here is that Starfleet's rank system
corresponds to the US Navy's.  IMHO, this is not a correct assumption,
though some people will disagree with me.  A lot of lip-service is
payed to "naval tradition" on Star Trek, but it's just that: lip service,
a formality with little real world meaning, sort of like the way our
political system pays lip-service to the formal Electoral College
but really pays attention to the popular vote.  Starfleet, in reality,
doesn't stand on tradition...hence, we almost never see saluting, for
instance.  So, although "Chief" may be an enlisted title in the Navy,
it need not be so for Starfleet (remember, *Lt.* Kyle was Transporter
Chief in TOS).

Also, if O'Brien is enlisted, how come in the *5th* season he spoke of
"one of my officers..."?

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: meb@sally.acns.nwu.edu (Mark Brodsky)
Subject: Re: Best line for DS9: The Emissary
Reply-To: mark-brodsky@nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:43:06 GMT

In article <16B4D143ED.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>  
YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>    Can one quote be a spoiler?
	No
I think the best line goes to Quark
"Never drink the liquor of a god-fearing people...."
From: chris.burgess@outlan.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Chris Burgess) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: RE: WHO'S HOTTEST ON DS9?
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:39:00 GMT
Reply-To: chris.burgess@outlan.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Chris Burgess) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Outland BBS  UUPCB  403-475-9588

-> From: novanet@ac.dal.ca
-> Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
-> Subject: Who's Hottest on DS9???
-> Date: 10 Jan 93 14:00:54 -0400
-> Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
-> I'm voting for Jadzia Dax and Cmdr. Sisko's late wife.

I vote for Nana Visitor (Maj. Kira Nelys (?))... she's a robo-babe! :)
She's a fox! In France, she'd be called la renarde, and she'd be hunted
with her cunning as her only defense. :)

(Misquoted Wayne's World...)

Chris Burgess
chris.burgess@outlan.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
                                                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: eaustin@ll.mit.edu (Eric J. Austin)
Subject: DS9 SPOILER Comments: Past Prologue
Originator: eaustin@ll.mit.edu (Eric J. Austin)
Reply-To: eaustin@ll.mit.edu (Eric J. Austin)
Organization: Group 105, MIT Lincoln Lab.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:44:44 GMT


First... At last, we in Boston get to see something before the rest
of the world rather than after it. For years, I have been trying to carefully
pick my way through all the spoiler comments about the latest TNG episode
before I got to see it. Boston gets TNG on Saturday night while it seems
LA gets it on Monday. So at best, I missed a lot of the discussion that I
would have liked to read. At worst, some bozo posts a message with a subject
line like "How will they unBorg Picard in the next epsiode?" I HATE that.
But now, it looks like we will get to see DS9 first. I promise to always use
spoiler protection (though there are a few people I wouldn't mind spoiling
in retaliation). But enough of this, on with the comments.

SPOILER Comments for the DS9 episode "Past Prologue" follow

Very nice. They were able to bring together several threads into a single
story in a manner that flowed smoothly rather than being forced together.
I was especially pleased to see them tie into TNG by bringing back Lursa
and B'Tor (did you really think they killed themselves at the end of
Redemption II) but do it without hitting us over the head. I say especially
because it gives me a good feeling about the writers and producers that they
realize that they did not need to make a big deal out of it. The two Klingons
were able to appear in a supporting role that perfectly fit with their past
and there was not more than passing reference to their actions in TNG. That
is just right for this story.

The conflict between Sisko and the Bajoran Major (can't remember her name
at the moment) also went well. We see that there is more to these characters
than you see on the outside. Lots of possible development there.

Even the doctor I liked. Rather than the annoying wimp of "The Emissary",
to me he seemed more like a naive city boy experiencing his first taste of
the wild west. He was both excited and scared about his contact with
the Cardassian. This is a good way to start the character, but we have to see
him grow from this. Not too quickly, but some indication that he is learning
from the experience how to cope with threatening situations where he
is not in control.

I guessed that the target for the bomb was the wormhole rather than DS9
right away but I did not think that this took away from my enjoyment at all
and it was completely reasonable for the characters to think that the station
was the target up until the shuttle changed course.

I give it a 9 out of 10.
-- 
 Eric J. Austin                       EMAIL: eaustin@ll.mit.edu
From: koreth@spud.Hyperion.COM (Steven Grimm)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: DS9: "The Emissary" (SPOILERS)
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:40:06 -0800
Organization: Hyperion, Mountain View, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spud.hyperion.com

I just watched the episode; spoilers follow.






Well, that was... rough.  The script needed a few more drafts, I
think.  Some of the people I was watching with found the storyline
confusing, for one, but to me the most annoying thing was the awful,
don't-do-it-or-you'll-flunk-beginning-screenwriting-class, expositions
of the characters' pasts -- "Hello, my name is Odo.  I was found near
the wormhole.  I don't know where I'm from, or whether there are others
like me, but I'd sure like to find out, so I'm coming with you."  The
extended "Linear time?  What's that?" sequence in the second half
should have been trimmed to at most five minutes; they took an
initially very interesting rendition of some _alien_ aliens and milked
it for five times what it was worth.

The story made a few leaps that will leave some people scratching their
heads.  The issue of the orbs was completely dropped once the wormhole
appeared.  How Sisko went from collapsing in tears to emerging with the
Cardassian warship in tow is a mystery.  Is the Ferengi kid still in
jail, even though Quark agreed to stay?  I'm sure viewers more critical
than I will find more.

It wasn't a complete loss; the acting was fair to good (I rate the
actress who plays Dax highest in that regard) and the special effects
were better than TNG's usually are.  The episode was certainly more
interesting than "Encounter at Farpoint".  There is some potential here.

I hope they quickly lay to rest some of the gimmicks in this episode:
the wormhole effect, the station's state of disrepair, Odo
shapeshifting to sneak behind enemy lines, O'Brien's sudden flashes of
technobabble inspiration ("I know!  We can redirect the flow of whatzit
current to the whoknows field generators and the problem will go
away!") and Sisko's problems with Picard, to name a few.  Those will
all get old fast.  I also hope they get some interesting incidental
music.

After six or seven episodes, I think we'll start to see what kind of
show DS9 will be; that should be enough time for the writers to lay
the aforementioned gimmicks to rest and flesh out the characters a
bit more.  This wasn't the best start, but it was good enough to
interest me in the show.

-Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Deep Review 9: "The Emissary" (SPOILERS)
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Reply-To: H_Markowitz@att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
	<73294@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan12.163032.18367@cci632.cci.com>
Distribution: world,local
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:31:24 GMT

On Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:30:32 GMT, tvf@cci632.cci.com (Tom Frauenhofer) said:

> In article <73294@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart
> Thorn) writes:
> (in reference to a comment I made in a previous article)
>>>BTW, if the Borg could carve up the fleet like that, how come when the
>>>Enterprise did the separation (in "Best of Both Worlds Part II") they
>>>didn't just take out the two pieces?  Are the Enterprise crew that
>>>much better than the whole fleet?
>>
>>     Probably because Riker's antimatter spread kept them guessing, and
>>     then their tactics planner (Locutus) was kidnapped by Data and Worf.

> I cannot buy this.  The only comment that sort-of made sense was the person
> who said that the Enterprise had Shelby, the Borg expert on board, but
> even that seems, at best, a poor rationalization.


THe captain of the Saratoga gave the command to modulate the frequencies
but it didn't work.  I would say that once Locutus had been taken, the
Borg left him there to take over the Enterprise and went on to Wolf 359.

They also probably factored in Picard's knowledge of the Enterprise
plans and were caught by surprise when they proved the reverse just long
enough to let the Enterprise get away.

--
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Replacement for Picard
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:41:03 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <jgasaway-010193123121@mac20-152.ncsa.uiuc.edu> jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Gasaway) writes:

>The reason has been mentioned before, and it answers your question very
>well.  The Enterprise is the flagship of the federation--it would be
>ridiculous to put someone in command of this ship who has *never* been a
>captain before.  

It has also been mentioned that Riker *was* a Captain before.  Of the
Enterprise, no less.  In Best of Both Worlds, he was promoted to the
rank of Captain and give command (not "temporary command") of the Enterprise.


>Career-wise, Riker was stupid to refuse three offers for a
>captain's position on other vessels.  

Agreed.  It would be interesting to see the writers incorporate this
into the show, with Riker getting passed over for command because he
waited too long, getting increasingly anxious, etc.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: trekker@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sanjai Dwivedula Rao)
Subject: Re: Computer voices
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 00:21:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.222747.12260@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> marchini@ds10.scri.fsu.edu (Juan Marchini) writes:
>In article <abick.726386921@cunews> abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick) writes:
>>Did anyone else find it stupid that the Saratoga had the same computer
>>voice as the Enterprise? I remember that in the old series (namely Gary-7)
>>Kirk was annoyed with the "new" computer voice calling him "dear". Spock
>>said that it had been changed in a recent refit. If it is so easy to
>>change why would all ships have the same voice in TNG?
>>
>i just saw Gary-7 a couple of days ago and i don't remember this seen.
>are you sure about that?
>

That's because the episode which has this scene is not Gary-7.  I don't 
remember the name, but I can tell you that it is the *other* episode in
which the Enterprise travels back in time.  If I remember correctly, it's
the one in which they get spotted by a 20th century fighter pilot and have
to beam him aboard to keep him from reporting what he has seen.

Live Long and Prosper.

Sanjai Rao.
From: 00rdharringt@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Rob Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Cardassia = Iraq
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:25:58 GMT
Organization: Ball State University

In article <1993Jan5.153407.20196@ra.msstate.edu>, paul@pj.tmc.edu (Thorongil) writes:
> 
> Cardassia = Eastern Europe 

I thought it should be Bajor = Eastern Europe... for the same reasons below...

> since after the Soviet Union pulled out we see that there are
> environmental problems there as well as the depth of poverty that
> Communism left.

-- 
/---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
|  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
|  Department of History                |               Muncie, Indiana, USA  |
|  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |
>---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
|                  Ball State University - University Democrats               |
|                Not a spokesperson - REPEAT - Not a spokesperson             |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Rosen)
Subject: Re: What did they do to the video? (was Re: ST: VII ... It's Official!)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:12:49 GMT

YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:

>In article <abick.726252270@cunews>
>abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick) writes:
>>
>>	I haven't seen the video but I was considering buying it when it
>>goes down in price. What did they change from the movie that "ruined" it?
>>
> 
>    Possible spoilers for people who haven't seen the video version of STVI

> 
> 
>    I remember three scenes which weren't in the theatrical version; two
>seems to be good, the third may change the intentions of the movie.
>   The first scene comes right after the meeting of the Fed president,
>Sarek, the Klingon ambassador and the Romulan ambassador.  The Klingon
>makes his protest and leaves.  Then the Starfleet C in C comes in with
>Colonel West (the same actor who plays Odo in DS9) to outline a rescue
>opeartion.  The colonel seems too gung ho for his own good.  ("What if
>this operation starts an intergalactic war?"  "Then, frankly, Mr. President,
>we'll clean out their chronometers")

I think this scene was in the original cut that we saw on the screen.

>"A choice" line, as well as harkening back to STII, ("you lied." "I
>exaggerated.") and it makes Scotty's
>reaction to Worf in "Relics" much more powerful.]

Please refresh my memory, what was Scotty's reaction to Worf?
Or was it more of his surprise to see a Klingon on a Federation vessel?

>   The third scene, however, changes much of the movie.  The Klingon assassin
>is shot by Scotty and falls.  Col. Worf, looking at the body, observes that
>the asssassin's blood is not Klingon blood.  They find that the Klingon is
>actually Col. West in disguise.  This last scene may destroy the movie for
>some, since the whole idea behind this conspiracy was that elements of all
>three races (Feds, Klingons and Romulans) were equally responsible, but this
>scene gives the impression that the Fed rogues had a much bigger role than
>the others.

I thought this scene was a stupid addition and did nothing for the
movie.  It seemed really cheap.

If you read the back of the video's box, there were a whopping 2
minutes added back to the film.

Mike
--
Michael Rosen						"Time and space
Tau Epsilon Phi - George Washington University		 can be a bitch."
mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu					  -Quantum Leap
Michael.Rosen@bbs.oit.unc.edu or @lambada.oit.unc.edu
From: jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (J. Michael Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: ST:VII ... It's Official!
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:03:38 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

In article <1993Jan5.092919.6427@desire.wright.edu> byork@desire.wright.edu writes:
>     I, too have heard that STVII was official, and if I had a choice, I would
>was it to be about Captain Sulu. His part was great in STVI.
>     But after what they did to STVI when they converted it to video( they
>ruined it), I would hope that they avoid STVII.
>           Barry

What did they do to it in video form??? I only saw it once in the theater but
I did not notice any changes
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: DS9: Music == BLECH
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:04:43 EST

 -=> Gregory O. Harp babbled to All and look what he/she said! <=-

 
 GOH> One question (since many people made this comment about the show): How
 GOH> can the role of a Bajoran woman be over-acted? ;) Kira is much less
 GOH> tame then Ro, I admit, but them again Ro has spent years in Starfleet
 GOH> and in jail.  Kira has spent years killing Cardassians.  But maybe I
 GOH> just like women with attitudes... ;)

I think she overacted her beginning intro ("Well don't ask my opinion 
next time!") a tad, but she did it much better later on in the battle 
scenes ("So if you want a war -- I'l GIVE you one!")


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET: bernie.wong@canrem.com                FIDONET: 1:229/15


... He wants you to join the Brotherhood of Aliens.  Martia
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: plutnj@aix.rpi.edu (James Matthew Plutnicki)
Subject: Re: ST: DS9 premier question
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:10:50 GMT

>|> >First...


>|> >Was the captain of the Saratoga a Romulan?  I hope not!
>|> 
>|> I'm quite sure he was a Vulcan. But I have a question: Was Sisko the
>|> Captain or was the Vulcan? I don't remember if they ever mention it.
>|> 
>|> 		CtB
>|> 
>
>Sisko was the commander (first officer maybe?).  If you listen to the
>first part of the show you'll hear him talking with the *captain* in
>one of the conversations.

Actually, if you re-watch the episode, Sisko is a Lieutenant Commander, 
not a full commander.  I don't believe that he was even the first officer,i
but I am not sure.  To confirm what I said, look at the pips on his uniform
during the battle and the subsequent scenes with Sisko and the wormhole 
aliens.

BTW: I believe the intent was to have the Captain of the Saratoga to be
Vulcan rather that Romulan, but the make-up effects of the forehead do
seem to indicate "new" Romulan. (I say "new" because in TOS the Romulans
looked exactly like Vulcans in that neither race had forehead ridges, the
"new" Romulans have developed them.  In my opinion, it is just an example 
of the vain attempt to make other races look less human, but sacrificing
continuity.)



-- 
 * James M. Plutnicki (plutnj@rpi.edu) * "There are no truths, only facts  *
 * Computer Systems Engineering Major  * blurred by opinion."   --Not Me   *
 * Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute    * "Confucius say,'Virginity like    * 
 * Please... Call me Jim...:)          * balloon, one prick all gone'."    *
From: scott.hollifield@the-matrix.com (Scott Hollifield) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart (does
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:08:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: scott.hollifield@the-matrix.com (Scott Hollifield) 

On 4 Jan 93 18:13:09 GMT, ahummel@ems.cdc.com (H. Austin Hummel) wrote:

HAH>|> Why disappointed?  The producers and writers are always responsible for
HAH>|> Picard's dialogue.  Patrick Stewart has nothing to do with Picard's words
HAH>|> as they appear in the script.
HAH>|>
HAH> I disagree, after establishing a personna of a character, the actor has
HAH>to have input into the kinds of language and delivery of the subject.
HAH>This is why some characters come across flat, their actions and words
HAH>do not match the established personna.

Delivery, yes; language, no, except to a very very limited extent
(actors frequently make minute ad lib changes, like saying "do not" as
"don't", etc.).

It's an actor's responsibility to make his or her character match the
words in the script.  Typically, there's very little room for compromise.

              /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
              \  "Let us think the unthinkable, let us   /   scott.hollifield
              /   do the undoable.  Let us prepare to    \   @the-matrix.com
              \  grapple with the ineffable itself, and  /
              /    see if we may not eff it after all."  \
              \_              --- Dirk Gently           _/
                \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

---
 . OLX 2.1 TD . Perhaps it should be I who dominates from now on. . Data
                                     
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tpenning@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Thomas R Pennington)
Subject: Re: Riker Takes Command!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:57:22 GMT

[other text deleted]
>Somehow, I don't think we'd find it easy to accept Mr. Gibson as captain of
>the Enterprise - perhaps even less than Jello- Jerk-o or whatever his name
>is.  What about that actor that played Remington Steele?  Or how about
>Sean Connery?  He played a fantastic ship's captain in the Hunt for Red
>October.  Or perhaps the Enterprise could deal with a female Captain...one
>with a firm hand on the bridge.  Is Rosanne Barr taking offers?  Can you
>imagine an exchange between her an Q?
>--

Okay, no real, do you all think that the ST producing crew would agree to
spend several million on each show to have someone like Mel Gibson, Pierre
Brosman (sp?), or Sean Connery as the captain of the Big-E? I think not.
If they don't make Riker the captain, would get some actor who has 
secondary parts in shows and/or movies.  I cannot think of any right now 
because they were secondary and there names are easily forgotten.


-thomas
                    "Reality and fiction are sometime are to tell a part.
                     Could someone tell me which do I belong in."