HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "CINCLANTFLT PAO" <CLFPAO@nctamslant.navy.mil>
Subject: Navy News Service Headlines - 17 Jul 92
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:29:25 GMT


From "CINCLANTFLT PAO" <CLFPAO@nctamslant.navy.mil>

Here are the headlines from the latest issue of the Navy News
Service, the weekly summary of Navy news and information
published by the Navy Internal Relations Activity in Washington.
To receive a complete copy of this issue or to subscribe to
NavNews by e-mail, contact navnews@nctamslant.navy.mil. 

NAVY NEWS SERVICE - NAVNEWS 029/92 - 17 JULY 1992

     Navy News Service (NAVNEWS) contains official news and
information and is intended for distribution to all Navy people.
Please help pass the word.  NAVNEWS is available:
     -- by message addressed to the NAVNEWS collective address
     -- on the CNO Bulletin Board, 1-800-582-2355/6940 or (703) 695-
6198/6388 
     -- by electronic mail from NAVNEWS(at)NCTAMSLANT.NAVY.MIL 
     -- and on the BUPERS ACCESS bulletin board, 1-800-346-
0217/18/27, 1-800-762-8567 or (703) 614-8070/6059/8076, (DSN) 224-
8070.
                               -USN-

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR NAVNEWS 029/92
A.  Top News and Policy Stories
    A1.  Sexual Harassment Stand Down Proceeds
    A2.  Notable Quotable
B.  Around the Fleet
    B1.  U.S. Atlantic Fleet Change of Command
    B2.  Naval Station Ingleside Dedication
    B3.  USS Shiloh Commissioning
    B4.  The Navy Leads the Way in Boston Tall Ships Visit
    B5.  Speaker's Note:  Women in the Navy Statistics
    B6.  Salute to Excellence:  Drug and Alcohol Counselors of the  
         Year
    B7.  This Week in the Navy:  July 15, 1945
C.  Personnel Notes
    C1.  FY93 CPO Selection Board Results Announced
    C2.  Naval Personnel Survey Results
    C3.  Latest SRB Rates Announced
D.  Awards:
    D1.  Naval Academy Sails to Victory
E.  Short Splices:
    E1.  IDP For Duty in Former Country of Yugoslavia
    E2.  Voting Assistance
    E3.  NMCRS Training Courses Available
    E4.  Navy Women Commemorate 50th Anniversary
    E5.  Navy News This Week
                               -USN-


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Rifled Barrels was Re: Civil War firsts
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:24:55 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul12.122210.19478@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM| fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

|From fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary)

|In article <1992Jul10.022702.22762@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM| jumper@fritz.catt.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham) writes:
||I remember reading about rifled barrels during the revolutionary war (the US's
||that is). 
|
|Rifles were fairly widespread (on the American side) during the revolution. I
|wouldn't be supprised if rifles had been used during the Seven Years War.
|
||They were rifled muskets, granted, but deffinetly(sp) rifled.  They
||still used round shot and it took the riflemen muchlonger to reload then
||musketmen,



Rifles were also used in the Napoleonic Wars. The English had a 
regiment called the 95th Rifles who dressed in green rather than
the usual red. They were trained and were used as light infantry,
i.e. they often fought in skirmish order. I believe they used 
Baker rifles (its been a while..might be wrong) which took longer
to load than the Brown Bess musket, but had longer range (remem-
ber that at the time one aimed at formations, not individuals). 


As with most wargamers we liked to use unusual units. We never 
did have a battle in which there wasn't a battalion of Rifles, 
a squadron of lancers, a couple of Old Guard battalions, at least
three Cuirassier squadrons (and no French dragoons!), the 42nd
Highlanders (which we liked since their battalions were twice the 
size of a british Line Infantry battalion), and a squadron of 
Life Guards! No conscripts... no one wants conscripts...




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 30 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:39:22 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Thursday, 30 July, 1942

Canada's Parliament passes a new Conscription Law which allows overseas
deployment of conscripts.

Auchinleck calls a halt to the Allied attacks at El Alamein.  The Eighth
Army has been exhausted in the fighting there, and now awaits
reinforcements.

Japanese troops occupy the islands of Tanimbar, Kei, and Aru in the Dutch
East Indies.

The Luftwaffe employs a new type of incendiary bomb in raids over the West
Midlands of Britain.

The United States establishes a Women's Naval Reserve, known as the WAVES
(Women Appointed for Volunteer Emergency Service).

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"By now, both Auchinleck and Rommel, in surveying the difficulties and
hazards of the Egyptian theater of operations, must be thinking of
Napoleon's evaluation of these lands when he said: "Of all obstacles to 
the march of an army, the most difficult to overcome is the desert." 
- Major General Stephen O. Fuqua, US Army, Retired
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: carssdf!watson@rutgers.edu (- Self Empl. Sys.Integrator)
Subject: why velcrow insignia
Organization: John Watson (Self Employed System Integrator)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:51:56 GMT


From carssdf!watson@rutgers.edu (- Self Empl. Sys.Integrator)


Why do air force flying uniforms seem to have all insignia 
attached by velcrow?   Is this a laundry consideration?

John Watson
From: reusch@grmnntp.grump.com
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Big John's Clover-leaf
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:35:47 GMT
Organization: Grumman Space & Electronics systems - Princeton


From reusch@grmnntp.grump.com

     P-38 Ace Big John (col. John Lowell) mentions his clover-leaf
     tactic "I got good strikes on him by using my clover-leaf
     tactics." in Top Guns, Foss and Brennan, Pocket Books (1991).
     Can anyone explain exactly what this tactic was? It did not
     make it into Shaw's book.

     Michael reusch@grump.com
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Keywords: bizarreness
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:16:57 GMT


From spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)

>From th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)

>From sun330!ur-guh.com!smith@uunet.UU.NET(Russ Smith)
>>
>>Why is there a "tradition" of executing spies caught during
>>wartime? What makes a spy sufficiently different from any other
>>soldier that the spy should be killed?

>The traditional reason spies are shot is as a deterrent. Everyone
>knows this. It concentrates the mind wonderfully when someone tries
>to recruit you.

Right. Rules generally are rational. The reason not to shoot
surrendering enemies is that it removes the incentive to fight to the
death. Warfare gets extraordinarily ferocious when this rule isn't
respected. In WW2, things got very deadly on the Eastern Front, in the
Pacific and on the Canadian-SS front in Normandy (have to pull out
Stacey to remember the units...)

Spies aren't likely to surrender unless caught (and if they do
surrender, they get turned instead of shot). Because they're generally
isolated, they can't cause too much damage even if they fight to the
death. So you don't lose anything by shooting them.

On the other hand, you want to discourage spying as much as possible.
Spies can cause strategic damage out of all proportion to their
numbers (compared to ordinary soldiers). And what better way to
discourage something than a swift and sure death penalty?

dhs    spencer@panix.com


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil>
Subject:  Re: Heavy Aircraft Guns
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:25:10 GMT


From "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil>


Thanks to all who responded to my query, both by postings and by E-mail.

The German 5cm gun was particularly of interest. My "Handbook of German
Aircraft Ammunition" has the 5cm and 7.5cm ammo, but I could never figure
out what the 5cm was for.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
"It demoralized them. Not to mention killed them."
     --- 3rd AD officer describing effects of DPICM in ODS

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Subject: Re: Muskets and Archery
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:29:05 GMT


From fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)

>From jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew)
>>From dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
>
>>The English Longbow.  Which was the best in the world.  It was perhaps
>>the equal of an early musket in penetration, and would exceed it in
>
>Hey, don't go overboard here the English LongBow may have been pretty
>heavy stuff against the French Knights, but the Eurasian Nomads all had
>better bows. The Mongol horsemen went wherever they felt like and there
>wasn't much nayone could do about it. I was going to look it up ( I've
>lost my reference ), but I have a definite memory of a comparision
>between the Mongol composite bow and the English longbow in which the
>long bow came off second best. The mounted archer was the dominant

The long came out poorly when working in the composit bow's neighborhood,
but better if they were both operating in the longbow's back yard.

The longbow tends to fail (explosively) if it gets dried out.

The composite bows tended to do the same if they got wet for too
long...the adhesives in used tended to be a bit water-soluble.

The Byzantines, btw, developed what they felt was the best glue for
the use of all time: it was a hide glue, like most all the others,
the secret was that the source of the "hide" for making the glue
came from the roof of the mouth of the sturgeon.

Eveyone has their military secrets...



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Korean ironclads circa 1592
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


From hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)


>From Lee Short <short@asf.com>
>
>>To the best point of this war - the Koreans were supposed to be using metal
>>hulled ships! The historical records talk of steel-clad Naval vessels - 
>>Joseph Askew
>
>Could you please be a bit more specific here?  Did the ships truly
>have metal *hulls*, or were the hulls *plated* with metal armor?  What
>metal was used -- steel or iron (or yet another metal)?  Remember that
>prior to the invention of the Bessemer furnace, steel was *very*
>difficult and expensive to produce -- thus I find it difficult to
>believe that the metal used was actually steel.

During the Hideyoshi invasion in 1592, the Korean Navy operated
a number of 'Turtle boats' which had metal plates covering the deck
in a dome shape. They also added a dragon's head on the bow and
the boat looked much like a turtle... hence the name.
It was propelled with oars, so it was more of a coastal defense
boat rather than a blue ocean craft.

The Japanese Navy had nothing that could defeat the turtle boat
tactically. The metal plate protected the oarsman from cannon, 
musket fire and arrows. The turtle boats would close in at short
range and blast away, messing up formations, and causing chaos.

The person who is credited for their development was Admiral
Yi, Shunshin who is quite a national hero in Korea. I remember
hearing that the Japanese Imperial Navy studied his tactics
before the Russo-Japanese War. 
-Han
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rayssd!m1b@uunet.UU.NET (Barone)
Subject: Re: 10 Worst Generals
Organization: Raytheon Submarine Signal Division, Portsmouth, RI
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:17:13 GMT


From rayssd!m1b@uunet.UU.NET (Barone)

>From mat%mole-end@uunet.UU.NET
>	Admiral Husband E. Kimmel and Lieutenant General Walter C. Short
>_Pearl Harbor: The Verdict of History_ presents a pretty good case
>that these were parade-ground officers incapable of understanding
>the information they were given or of exercising basic prudence to
>protect the forces with which they were entrusted.

	After the initial attack on Wake, Kimmel had already prepared
plans at Pearl Harbor to relieve Wake.  A task force centering on the
Saratoga would make for Wake a force built around the Enterprise and
Lexington would be act as a diversion.  Before the plan could be
implemented, however, Kimmel was replaced by Nimitz.

	Until Nimitz arrived, though, Vice Admiral William Pye was
in command.  He was a very timid commander who followed the plan with
great caution.  The ships had to be fully fueled before crossing into
possible battle.  This slowed the forces to 13 knots in order not
to lose the oilers.  Wake was deemed a liability by the chief of
naval operations and any expedition was Pye's decision, putting
further pressure on Pye who saw the results of failure.  Wake was
attacked again and Pye decided that Wake's relief was not worth
risking the remnants of the Pacific Fleet.

	Now, for my questions:  Would Kimmel's plan have paid off
using 20/20 hindsight?  Would anything have changed if Wake remained
in American hands?  Where did Pye's career go after Nimitz arrived?
-- 
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
We had to destroy the town in order to save it.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix)
Subject: Re: V-22 Osprey crash ?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:10:55 GMT


From twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix)

In article <1992Jul23.184745.20798@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, manuelp@ecf.toronto.edu (MANUELPILLAI Gerald Nishanthan) writes:
>
>From manuelp@ecf.toronto.edu (MANUELPILLAI Gerald Nishanthan)
>
>
>I caught the tail end of a local newscast about an Osprey crash, 
>killing 6 or 7 servicemen.  Since I haven't seen anything in the
>group about it, I was wondering about the the accuracy of a) the
>news item, and b) my hearing.   
>Anybody out there know anything ?  If true, I wonder what impact
>it'll have on the future of the whole program 

	I heard that news last night too on NBC 10:00 p.m. news 
report.  It didn't say much about it:"US navy's newest experimental
aircraft Osprey, the one can fly like a airplane and chopper,
crashed during test flight..."
	Oh, well, seems Navy doesn't has much luck about testing
flight of their exp. aircraft.  Their F-14 crashed, (but
F/A-18 didn't), now it comes to Osprey.  
	I was wondering if anyone else can give the specific 
details about the crash if they can.  BTW, how many 
prototype does navy has?
					Ming

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rda834x@nella4.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi)
Subject: Re: Harrier jet performance in Desert Storm
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:58:16 GMT


From rda834x@nella4.cc.monash.edu.au (J. Zufi)

LBCOTTER@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU writes:


>From         LBCOTTER@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU

>Do you know of other places I might look for unclassified information?  I am al
>so planning to askthe Army War College library if they have any information.

Try the journal Military Technology. I would regard it as one of the highest
standards of military information sources (i.e. regular information). I can
help you with the address/contact info - unfortunately all my copies relating 
to the gulf war, including one issue which deals heavily with the British air
force contribution to the air campaign, is on loan to another person
conducting study, but if you need it I will see what I can do.

J.Z.

-- 
[  Jonathan Zufi                  | rda834x@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au   
[  Robotics & Digital Technology  | zuf@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au          
[  Monash Univeristy, Caulfield	  | "A winner never quits; a quitter never wins"
[  Melbourne, Australia		  |			  traditional.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Torpedo Defense (was DOWN)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 13:35:10 GMT


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Jul17.191833.28854@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:

>	For use against magnetic mines during WWII the UK(?) also employed
>	"big" (~10m) coils on a/c (picture an upside down AWACS...).  Flown
>	low over the water this would trigger magnetic mines.  Not real
>	practical against torps.

Maybe the UK did this as well (though I never heard of it), but this was
used extensively by the Luftwaffe. I have photos of both a Dornier flying
boat and a flight of five "Iron Annies" patrolling with this gear. The
coil looks like a big hula hoop with a diameter larger than the length
of the aircraft.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | There are very few personal problems which
George Patterson -  | cannot be solved by a suitable application
                    | of high explosive.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Subject: Re: Wake Island (WAS Re: 10 Worst Generals)
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:13 GMT


From swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)


>>       Now, for my questions:  Would Kimmel's plan have paid off
>> using 20/20 hindsight?  Would anything have changed if Wake remained
>> in American hands?  Where did Pye's career go after Nimitz arrived?

My two-cent worth:
Likely yes, because the Japanese homeland would be more vulnerable to 
our "hit and run" carrier attacks from north Pacific, thus forcing some 
of the Japanese navy to be tied down closer to the homeland (this would 
have slowed down Japan's offense considerably in the early months - 
remember that Japan's two powerful carriers, Shokaku and Zuikaku, were 
reassigned to the defense of the homewater following the Enterprise's 
daring "hit and run" attack on Marcus Island). The Battle of Midway 
might not have occurred while Wake was in American hands (American patrol 
planes operating out of Wake would have detected the Japanese fleet).  
Also, there might not have been any Japanese attack on the Attu Island, 
and thus our early possession of the Mitsibushi Zero.

Again, it's just my two-cent worth of speculation.

>Net results could easily have been a second repulse of the Japanese 
>from Wake, and posibly the loss or damage of enemy carriers. 

Actually, Wake repulsed two Japanese attacks before they succumbed in 
the third attack.  Wake held out as long as its small air force existed; 
soon after its last plane was shot down Wake's defense collapsed. Wake's 
planes created a lot of problems for the Japanese invasion group and 
kept the Japanese ships at distance.  It was the planes from the Hiryu 
and Soryu that wiped out the remainder of Wake's air force, leading 
to the downfall of Wake.  It was a lesson in air power.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: crowl@jade.cs.orst.edu (Lawrence Crowl)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies?
Organization: Oregon State University, Corvallis Oregon
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:04:21 GMT


From crowl@jade.cs.orst.edu (Lawrence Crowl)

One reason for executing spies is that they often know very valuable
information; information that could cause thousands of deaths.  Imagine a
German spy found out that the Ultra code was broken.  The number of additional
allied deaths would have been significant.  Officials generally want to
prevent that information from leaking to the enemy.  The only sure way to do
that is to kill the spy.  Given the number of deaths the spy would have
caused, or may already have caused, the punishment is not wholly unreasonable
(from the perspective of the spied-upon party).

I am under the impression that execution of spies generally only occurs in
war.  (After all, no one is dying.)  During peace, opposing parties generally
trade captured spies.

-- 
  Lawrence Crowl		503-737-2554	Computer Science Department
			   crowl@cs.orst.edu	Oregon State University
	      ...!hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!crowl	Corvallis, Oregon,  97331-3202


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Seeking sources on medieval firearms
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:13:45 GMT


From viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)

 jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kirsten C. Jacobus) writes:


>Hello, I'm seeking good sources on medieval explosives, firearms, bombards,
>etc.

>Note that I would prefer sources that delve into matchlock and pre-matchlock
>technologies and techniques, especially the pre-matchlock stuff.  I can
>already find a wealth of stuff regarding wheel-locks, flintlocks, etc.

>I would especially appreciate any sources which concentrated on the 14th
>century (AD1301-AD1400) and the very early 15th century.  If there's anything
>earlier, I'd go for that, too.

	A similar discussion has been had on talk.politics.guns under the
subject of gun manufacturing.  In addition, rec.org.sca has been having a long
discussion on the use of firearms in midieval recreation.  There has been a
bit of the information you ask flowing through there.

	In addition, I asked for a reference to repeating firearms prior to
1600ad, including a reference to the 14th century.  I received the following
reply via e-mail.  Due to netiquette, I'll only include the body and not who
wrote it or anything "incriminating" like that.

------------------  begin included mail message  ----------------------

To: viking@iastate.edu
Subject: Re: gun manufacturing

Get a copy of "The Social History of the Machine Gun", by Ellis,
pub'd by the Johns Hopkins University press.  It has the cites
you want.

----------------  end included mail message  --------------------------

	I think all this falls within the charter, but let's please not let
the discussion drift off target, so to speak.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: birmingh@fnala.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Operation names
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:03:56 GMT


From birmingh@fnala.fnal.gov


    In article <1992Jul21.151911.20037@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, 
    wdr@world.std.com (William D Ricker) writes:

> .... According to the various books on the WWII British
> Special Operations Executive, the list of random codenames was scanned
> for selection by the case officers -- which resulted, given the Oxbridge
> nature of the case officers -- in an inordinate number of puns in 
> cover names.  I guess its a good thing that (a) Ultra was the other way

         There is an amusing anecdote concerning this in David Kahn's _The
    Codebreakers_, where a memo from Churchill addresses the subject of
    operation codewords. He stresses that the codeword should not be such
    as to give away the nature of the operation, but that it should neither
    be frivolous, so as to avoid having to tell some woman that her son
    died in "Operation Bunnyhug."
-- 
 Phillip J. Birmingham   birmingh@fnal.fnal.gov  
 I don't speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough...