HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan)
Subject: Re: No 8x rule?
Keywords: Rankscum!
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:09:09 GMT


Probably a FOCS, but you could implement the idea of people going down in rank as
well as up.  One suggestion, which probably wouldn't make a great deal of
difference, would be to require you to have ratings of 5+ (and 4x DI) to retain
the rank of Admiral (4+ for Read Admiral, 3+ for Commodore, you get the idea). 
If you wanted to be really mean, you would require 4x DI and 6+ ratings to retain
the rank.

Now to retain the rank of Admiral you have to be a) good, or b) permenantly
scumming.  I doubt many people would opt for b, so you could argue that Rank
would more accurately reflect peoples ability.

Just an idea to bounce around.

Yoda
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SB's as 'bots, in normal servers
Date: 12 Dec 92 12:02:10 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

In article <1992Dec10.172250.61920@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>What if we had the option of
>bringing sb's in as robots, such as using the codes for the robots at the sb
>server.  have them set up, so they act like a regular sb, but not to fight
>other sb's, unless first provoked.  They can run around, gathering armies, and
>working on a front (oh, and protecting themselves from an ogg).  The highest 
>rank could even command them, to go to certain areas (such as, Go Guard Cyg). 
>The nifty thing about this, is you could have the bots on each side, leaving
>the other stuff to the players.

(a) Hadley does not give his code out.
(b) Base play is too important to leave to robots
(c) RoboBases would be too easy to ogg for real players
(d) RoboBases would be too difficult to ogg for twinks

and finally, the real reason....

(e) Base play is the most fun part of netrek!

-Wreck


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: boutell@isis.cshl.org (Tom Boutell)
Subject: "Wait and Read the Motd"
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:16:31 GMT

This is a lovely feature, but is there a way I can get the motd to go
away without iconifying the wait queue monitor itself?

-T

-- 
Tom Boutell, boutell@cshl.org

Clausthaler is the best non - alcoholic beer in the known universe.
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Doorstop: running 24 clue hours
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:08:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec16.223203@IASTATE.EDU> isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!) writes:
>In article <1gorspINNprk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, bo21307@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (VPC)
>writes:
>> Hello Netrekers:
>> 	I kinda like the idea of the "clue" check on Doorstop, however,
>> I think if you are ranked Flt.Captain or higher, you shouldn't have to
>> answer there messages. (When I concentrate on taking planets/dogfighting,
>> I read messages but I can't take my finger off to reply messages).

>Hmm..  you believe rank == clue?   ;) I don't.

Rank doesn't equal clue, I agree.  However, it is a pretty good approximation.
The only time rank doesn't equal clue is when some Admiral starts a new
character.

I think that the most an unclued person can get is Captain.  After that,
you have to at least have some clue.  Some clue includes being able to read
messages.  So, I would agree that at Flt. Capt or higher, you shouldn't
need to respond to the "clue" test.

Brian
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 12 Dec 1992 23:48:56 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec13.013447.9491@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>The AS has a special place in netrek, just like other types of normal
>ships:
>SC -	good for scoutbombing, ogging, taking.

Only a superb SC can ogg a clued player in a CA, IMO, unless the CA is taken
completely by surprise.  I (not to toot my own horn or anything) try not to
ogg a ship that is 2 classes above me (classes:  SC->DD->CA->BB) unless
they're clueless (exception: SBs, which i'll ogg mainly in CAs but i'll ogg
em in any ship)

>CA - 	good for almost everything. :)

Except taking, which is their weak point, but yes, CA is the better overall
ship.

>BB - 	good for ... ok, almost all ships have a place in netrek.
>		some people might say good for LPS's (or near LPS's).
>		maybe for short escorting runs.

Yes, that's pretty much the only thing i'll use BBs for, LPSs or planet
defense if all i'm doing is defending (which i usually don't do fulltime).
Also to ogg difficult bases, IF we have a wave on it.

>AS - 	good for bombing mass quantities of armies and detting for
>		carriers.  good for ferrying mass quantities of armies.

Also should be used above all else to take back your own core planets.

>The problem is, most people use the AS for the wrong reason; to carry
>lots of armies to some distant planet.  AS's manuever and fly so slow
>that they are ogg bait; they must be escorted.

One of the few times i feel relief in a pickup game and i see the opponent's
planet scum switch from a DD into an AS.

My gripe with the AS:  if you so much shoot a stream of torps you find your-
self in fuel trouble.  Couldn't we just shave off a bit from torp fuel cost?
Either that or nicer press/tractors would be nice to deal with oggers.

5150
i find it curious that the AS, above other ships, has 120 etemp capacity...
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:52:02 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<18Oj03wnc5AI00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 19-Dec-92 Re: This has gone too
far..... Andy McFadden@uts.amdahl (888)

> As somebody else stated, the best dogfighting ship is the one that YOU can
> dogfight best in.  I do best in a CA.  You can argue 'til you're blue in the
> face that BB or DD or SC or (what the hell) AS is better, but IT DOESN'T
> MATTER.

> Every ship has tradeoffs.  If you can use them to your personal advantage,
> do it.  But you're not going to prove anything by facing off SCs vs DDs other
> than to show that some people are better at playing SCs and some people are
> better at playing DDs.


	Not quite true.  Experience has told us that GOOD players can fight
much better in a CA than in a DD.  Experience also tells us that GOOD
players can fight better in a BB than in a CA, but not by as big a
margin.  Experience also says that AS fight better than DD or SC, but
not as well as CA or BB.  Apparently, the DD/SC line isn't so clear.  
	Some of us would like to show that the SC is not only faster -- and
therefore more generally useful -- than the DD, but also better at
fighting.  Basicly, we would like to get the bozos who seem to want to
fly DDs on otherwise clueful servers to give it up.

	I flew DDs for over a year.  I used them to fight, Ogg, you name it. 
When I switched over to using CAs and SCs, I found that I became more
useful almost instantly in spite of not being used to them.  To those
who use DDs, all I can say is try giving them up.  Your play will
improve.

ZZnew guy
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:10:29 -0800
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Keywords: flamebait

In article <102252@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:
>Cool.  Amazing how people won't listen to those who actually play the
>scout ships almost all the time.

Amazing how most people can't play the scout ship half as well as you or
Hugh.  Duh.

>>	ZZnew guy
>Brian

If anyone is fool enough to attempt to dogfight either of you in an SC, they
deserve death.  But speaking on average, a DD can outdogfight an SC.

Of course, everyone knows that dogfighting is not productive.

5150
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Demotions
Keywords: Rankscum!
Date: 17 Dec 92 07:02:31 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec17.050909.6519@infodev.cam.ac.uk> js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan) writes:
)
)Now to retain the rank of Admiral you have to be a) good, or b) permenantly
)scumming.  I doubt many people would opt for b, so you could argue that Rank
)would more accurately reflect peoples ability.

If you think that not many people would opt for b, you haven't played
much netrek.  There are always rank scums, and if you make rank 
contingent on continued high DI, there will be people who do nothing
but DI scum forever.  Netrek doesn't need more DI scums.
 -Tom
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:25:23 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight problem with the port-1 stuff

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Dec-92 Re: Slight problem
with the.. Jon Blow@xcf.berkeley.ed (1262)

> Hmm.  If you consider that nobody is ever going to have ratings higher than
> 99.99 (I hope), then you're wasting two columns there.  (You can't really
> shave anything off the DI column since 10,000 DI is, umm, reasonable.  In
> a sense.)  Also, instead of listing the login in a separate column from the
> display, you can concatenate them with the traditional @, which saves you
> 2 more columns.  This gives you enough to actually expand out the 'Rank'
> column; I think I'd transpose it with the shiptype.  So...


	The highest rating that I've ever had on bronco was a bombing a bit
over 100 when I joined in as a guest, Ogged B.L.E.P*. with a huge load
of armies and then quit.  Total time elapsed was 32 seconds.  I suppose
that if I had used a real character, I would have needed the extra
didget to save it.  This is a pretty rare case, however.

*ObB.L.E.P.

ZZnew guy
From: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Doorstop: running 24 clue hours
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:15:17 GMT
Reply-To: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University

In article <102466@netnews.upenn.edu>, paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian
Paulsen) writes:

> Rank doesn't equal clue, I agree.  However, it is a pretty good
approximation.
> The only time rank doesn't equal clue is when some Admiral starts a new
> character.
> 
> I think that the most an unclued person can get is Captain.  After that,
> you have to at least have some clue.  Some clue includes being able to read
> messages.  So, I would agree that at Flt. Capt or higher, you shouldn't
> need to respond to the "clue" test.

I agree with your point. But, since I decided to check for 'clue', I really
think I should check EVERYONE. shouldn't I?
After all, sending 'clue' to yourself is trivial. 
You only have to send it once and you'll be safe for the rest of the game.
Hmm...  I'll wait for more responses. :)

> 
> Brian

-Rony
 isae@IASTATE.EDU
From: yap@iowegia.uucp (Yap Yap Yap)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:36:22 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Iowegia Public Access Usenet/UUCP, Clive IA USA.

> 
> I totally agree that BB's are the best dogfighting ship (assuming you
> know how to fly one, which most people don't).  I tend to disagree with
> your other assertions.  BB's are OK at ogging big ships (AS, BB, and CA),
> but they have problems chasing and they don't blow up enough (the
> main advantage a CA enjoys in ogging is that it's pretty easy to
> blow up on the other guy if you line up right; in a BB you often wind
> up alive far longer than you want to be).
> 
> I also don't think they're too bad for planet taking in medium-clue games.
> If I'm heading to a planet and I'm not going to have to deal with more
> than one ogger, I can go in a BB and stay uncloaked, waste the ogger
> and take the planet.  Or go in and dogfight the dude, kill him and take
> the planet.  I wouldn't try either of these manouvers in any other
> ship.  In high-clue games it tends not to work as well because the
> second ogger will take you out 'cause you run out of fuel, but in a
> recent clue game Superman played a BB and took something like 10 planets,
> so it's not impossible.  In low-clue games, of course, you can take 
> planets in anything; I made Admiral taking planets in a BB.
>  -Mojo
> (former tank driver)


     Of course BBs are the best dogfighters.  Look at BB-1's ratio 
for example...  On Bronco he has a 10.something ratio..  Heh heh, 
BBs are unstoppable.



Yap Yap Yap!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:19:35 -0500 
From: Michael Juster <MrYuk+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where has all clue gone?
	<1992Dec11.215912.22489@wuecl.wustl.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Dec-92 Where has all clue
gone? Ian Flanigan@froggy.wust (885)

> I just got done playing a very frustrating 15 minutes on Bronco.
> First off, the FED team had an Admiral, two Captians, and I think
> someone else of rank.  We ROMs topped at Lt. Comander.  Can you say,
> "Suck?"  Knew you could.  Needless to say, my team was just a random
> collection of twinks.  Well, that was fine by me, since I was just
> on to do a little ogging before Happy Hour.  However, when the FEDs,
> who were only two planets up at the time, made a dash for ALD, the
> true lack of clue was revealed.  Normally, you get suspicious if three
> blips are flying at max warp up into your space toward an AGRI.  The
> FEDs, they had class.  They had FIVE ships headed up there.  FIVE.
> What do the twinks on my team do?  Rush off in the other direction.

> Sigh.

> -- 
> Ian Flanigan


Duh?  I don't know?

Maybe?

Studying for fucking finals!!??!?!?!?!?!

-Mike
Admiral chi (bronco, rwd4, discovery, doorstop, sturgeon)
From: jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:05:09 GMT
	<1ggo7iINNh1v@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Tom, could you do me a favor and post how you would breakdown the
teams for this season into the 3 categories?  You can use any
information (like the end of season results).  I tried and couldn't
find a good distribution to do it.  So could you give us some
information and post this please?  I'm not going to hold you to it,
and I realize that the decision would be made by a council, but after
looking at the teams I could find no good way to divide them into
thirds. 

	thanks,

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:58:03 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <BzBG3o.C8G.1@cs.cmu.edu> spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
)
)
)Tom> The system I propose has a greater scheduling start-up cost, but
)Tom> it has far fewer ongoing problems than a ladder system; the
)Tom> workload is shifted from the INL Council (who have volunteered to
)Tom> do the work) to the captains (who haven't, really) with a ladder
)Tom> system; I see this as a bad thing.
)
)yea, if teams did the scheduing instead of the council then, terrible
)things would happen, like, like, like, the council would have less
)power.  oh no! can't allow that...

No, terrible things would happen like, like, like it would make the
captains work hard to schedule their games.  Ask Akira how easy it
was to get a game scheduled in the first season of the INL; the
schedule even gave the matchups, so there were 4 teams who HAD to
play team Akira but they still wouldn't schedule the game.  If there
are no obligations, it will be impossible to schedule some teams.

Scheduling is no fun.  The reason I was the captain of the Golden Bears
this fall was because neither Maroo nor Duck wanted to deal with
scheduling; I was captain by default, I didn't ask for it.  If you
make scheduling harder, you will discourage people from being
captains.

)Tom> We will allow petitions from teams who feel they are improperly
)Tom> ranked to reconsider the ranking.
)
)
)"we will" ???? since when was it decided that this system would be
)used?  i prefer it to the old system, but i prefer both swiss and
)ladder/points to it.

What a shock.  Mergatroid disagrees with something I propose.
I don't know why I'm wasting my breath.

Nothing has been decided, I just don't feel like prefacing every 
sentence with 'Under this proposal...'
 -Tom
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:34:30 GMT

paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:
>Most people don't know how to play a scout.  Try saying easy kill to Helix,
>Lumchan, Mergatroid, sunscreamer, Red Shirt, and several other well-known
>scout players.

Agreed.  A surprising number of people don't know how to fight a good
scout.  The proper method is, of course: tractor, phaser, det, phaser,
det, phaser, det, phaser, det, repair, which a DD is ill-equipped to do.

-Ensign Pac-man
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have massive .mycshrc, will travel)
Subject: Re: Short Shameful Confession
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:54:27 GMT


jive@spanky.ssc.gov (FillInTheVeep) writes:
>In article <1gfi7lINNb6o@girtab.usc.edu> echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>>   I have a "Netrek" menu in my .tvtwmrc file.  I bring it up with the
>>  middle button.  I even have a "Check Metaserver" option on it.

>     This is a confession?  Bah humbug.  _THIS_ is a confession :
>menu "nt"
>[menu deleted]

eos% alias
[excerpts]
bronco    /afs/eos.ncsu.edu/users/t/tscorbit/udp -h bronco.ece.cmu.edu
discovery /afs/eos.ncsu.edu/users/t/tscorbit/udp -h discovery.cl.msu.edu
hockey    /afs/eos.ncsu.edu/users/t/tscorbit/udp -h hockey.ksu.edu
romulus   /afs/eos.ncsu.edu/users/t/tscorbit/udp -h patriot.ulowell.edu
rwd4      /afs/eos.ncsu.edu/users/t/tscorbit/udp -h rwd4.mach.cs.cmu.edu
 
(various routines to search for my fellow NCSU twinks via MetaServer deleted)

..and now, the shameful part...

xtrek     /ncsu/jecoleb/eskimo/frigidaire -h armstrong.cs.buffalo.edu

Guess who's too lazy to remove his outdated aliases?

			--Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU
			--"and I'll need 5 more for the RSA clients, too"

--
          jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu : have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
     It's time to see the world / It's time to kiss the girl
              It's time to cross the wild meridian
  Grab your bag and take a chance / Time to learn a Cajun dance
             Kid, you're gonna see the morning sun... 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: review of popular servers
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:18:23 GMT


Red Shirt's biased reviews of the popular US netrek servers:

discovery.cl.msu.edu:  Usually has the best attendance; almost always
has a full game.  Medium-high clue.  Excellent net connections.  Some
strange undocumented modifications, like SB available when you only
have a couple planets and modified army production code.

doorstop.design.iastate.edu:  Usually full.  Medium clue.  Net
connections vary day-to-day.  Superb server modifications, especially
the galaxy-reset on genocide.  (Also has macho HunterDoosher and
unpredictable kill crediting).

bronco.ece.cmu.edu:  Usually full when open.  Medium-high clue.
Hard to know these days whether your client will be accepted when
you do make it through the wait queue.  Frequent server lag.
Modified army production code.

rwd4.mach.cs.cmu.edu:  Often full.  Low-medium clue.

calvin.usc.edu:  Popular late at night.  Poor net connections.
Good server mods.  Medium clue.  Shutting down?  Moving?

bigmax.ulowell.edu:  Seldom stays 8-vs-8 for long.  Low-medium clue.
Otherwise good.

fife.ecn.purdue.edu:  Fairly popular, but for no discernable reason.
Server is much too slow.  DD overenhanced.  Low-medium clue.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall)
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:39:35 GMT

In article <UfAucdK00YUoAXlFg=@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
>
>
>bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
>> In article <1gs94sINNonj@aludra.usc.edu> jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)\
>> 
>>         SC torps do NOT do more damage on fife.
>>         THE ONLY difference between fife and vanilla bronco is the DDs, which
>> have 8000 fuel instead of 7000.
>
>Does this mean you finally got rid of the mod where rear firing torps
>causes extra weapon temp?
>
>	joe
>	Purple haze
>	Lamb, Leg Of


	Oooopppsss....  Forgot about that.  That mod is still there.  It will
be there for a while longer as well.  The way I see it, it's not that big of
a deal.  You can fire 2 FULL torp spreads out the rear without wtemping.  I 
have yet to wtemp from this and since I am a planet scum (at least on fife --
made Admiral that way), I do my fair share of running and firing out the rear.

	Until we "cure" the TOTAL runnerscum attitude on fife, I believe the
mod will stay in place.  It's horrible to see 10 ships all in a circle 
spraying torps into the center and turn around to run.  Anyone got a better
idea to "cure" this problem?  We are open for suggestions.


  Brian Hall
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: A NEW IDEA (I think)
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:31:32 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: corpse.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Dec15.122037@cs.bham.ac.uk> rsh@cs.bham.ac.uk (Roger S Hoyle) writes:
>Keywords: clued, reading.
>
>GOD sends occasional messages to players (in order, random times I think). The
>players get...
>An 'R' if they reply to 75% of messages within 30 secs.
>An 'r' if they reply to 50% of messages within 60 secs.
>A  'u' for replying occasionally.  (unclued)
>A  'U' for never replying. (UNCLUED)

I not sure I like this idea. Worrying about answering messages all the time so
you appear to be clueful can get tedious. A while ago there was talk about 
getting a minimal clue server working. The way this was done was that the
server would send each new player a message when the entered the game. The
player would then have a certain amount of time to send the message back. If
they didn't they were ejected from the game. This is kinda on the same track
as you were thinking.  Or at least it would weed out the people that didn't
know about messages. If you want to check it out I have it running on Guzzler
on every Thurs.

--Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God of Guzzler
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Base practice server seems to be malfunctioning.
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:21:29 GMT
Organization: CS



No matter what we tried, it wouldn't send in any oggers.  It'd say 
"Sending 3 VICIOUS Romulan oggers" or somesuch, but nothing would appear.


I don't remember who runs the server, hence the posting to rgn.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek