HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: U45301@uicvm.uic.edu (Mary Jacobs)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: CLINTON TEXT: BORIS YELTSIN MEETING
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:43:42 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

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========================================================================
PRESS AVAILABILITY
GOVERNOR BILL CLINTON ON MEETING WITH BORIS YELTSIN
WASHINGTON, D.C.
JUNE 18, 1992

I just had a very good meeting with President Yeltsin in which we
reviewed his trip. I told him I thought his address to the
Congress yesterday was magnificent and I hoped that it would help
to make the case to pass the support package in Congress.

As you know, I have been a consistent and strong supporter of the
aid package. I think that he has made an incredible effort here
to reach out to the United States. The arms control agreement is
very, very good for this country and was embraced at some risk to
him and his country and I think that after he goes to Kansas
today and speaks to the American heartland and then leaves our
country, we should join ranks across party lines to pass this
package. It is very much in the interest of the United States to
do that.

I think this man represents a fundamental departure from anything
we have ever seen in Russia -- a spirit of real democracy, real
change, a real grass-roots commitment to market economics. And I
think we have a very great interest in seeing that that
experiment succeeds and becomes permanent and irreversible. I
don't think that is the case today and I think we need to support
the effort.

So, that is what we discussed. It was a very lively and energetic
discussion. There was, I can tell you, there was no discussion of
American domestic politics in any way. So, I felt good about it.

























                       QUESTION AND ANSWER
         GOVERNOR CLINTON ON MEETING WITH BORIS YELTSIN
                        WASHINGTON, D.C.
                          JUNE 18, 1992


HOW WOULD YOU ADDRESS THE DIFFERENCE FROM GEORGE BUSH'S
PROPOSAL?


Well, as you know, the foreign policy speech I gave in New York
several weeks ago recommended an aid package very much like the
one he proposed to the Congress. While President Yeltsin is here,
I think I should say that there is no substantial difference on
my support for the arms control agreement or my support for the
aid package.

There is only one aid package in the Congress now and I think we
should just all support it -- get it out there as quick we can.


DO YOU THINK THERE WAS A LINK TO AID AND THE LINK TOWARD THE
REFUGEES AND THE POW'S THAT PRESIDENT YELTSIN HAS RAISED HERE?

I do not because we have no reason to believe that he will not
proceed in complete good faith on that. We would not even know
about that issue had he not raised it. So, I agree with what
Senator McCain said yesterday after hearing President Yeltsin. I
think the package should proceed.

Thank you very much.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:20:42 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:11:10 GMT
>From: "Mikhail S. Verbitsky" <verbit@BRAUER.HARVARD.EDU>

>Note that the assassins of Russian politician Milyukov
>(monarchists who tried to kill him, because he "sold Russia
>to Jews",

Indeed he did:-)


>          but killed the father of a writer Nabokov instead:
>Nabokov shielded Milyukov by his own body),

One could wonder how came a decent person being
aide of Milyukov. Tough things to live with.


>                                            also gave up
>themselves. On the trial, they tried to make up the evidence
>that Milyukov insulted late Russian Tsarine and they killed him for
>this insult, and got only mediate jail scores (less than ten years).
>
>I am sure nobody will say that they were Communists, since
>they were members of Nazi party.

Official members of NSDAP at the time? When was it, meanwhile?
Wasn't party at tens of members then?


>                                 Actually, one of alleged
>heirs to Russian throne also sponsored Nazis since she believed
>that they will free Russia from Communists (in middle-twenties).

Who's she? Meanwhile, as far as I know (correct, please), no females
were among heirs to Russian throne since 1797 until April 1992.


>Involvement of Russian ex-arystocrasy and monarchist parties
>in early Nazi activities were colossal (reference on request).

I'm extremely curious. Seriously, no bull. Provide
as much references as you can, please.


>Not a wonder since they were fiercely antisemitic.
>

Not a sufficient reason, actually. Not even necessary, btw:-)


>About Milyukov's (as well a Petlyura's) assassins,
>I am sure I know the reason for them giving up to the authorities.
>They wanted publicity to expose their views: Nazi in one
>case, anti-Petlyurian in another.

Not so much for such a high possible price, eh?
Still, it could be so.


>                                  They also wanted to
>distinguish their doings from a usual felony acts, and
>be praised by their peers for a heroism.
>

That's perfectly fine; what's wrong with it?


>Being tried, Nabokov's murderers exposed themselves as
>spineless and cowardly creatures. They did not get desired
>publicity,

Wait a second; you've said you knew their reasons for giving up -
it was they wanted publicity to expose their views, didn't they?


>           which could probably turn the history from
>feet to head: their target was to become a Nazi's Horst
>Wessel (spelling is wrong :(). I cannot imagine what
>Nazi were doing if their "favourite martyr" happened
>to be a Russian!

So it would be easier for them to kick Stalin out,
and install German-Russian Empire instead, is it?

What a decent goal, indeed! I guess it's still on schedule.

[Wise idea (just to be flamed:) - they'd also install
Israel quickly, by joint efforts, and send all Jews out there.
(No Arabs will dare say a word.) No, I'm not sure in this.]


>
>Misha.


Dima.
From: pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Re: Translation from Latin
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:40:39 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <TPS-L%92082017063931@INDYCMS.BITNET> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>Source: Latin language (consult any textbook or dictionary).
>
>The direct translation of the phrase "Ad mortuum nihil veritas" means
>"About dead say no truth", but in Russian (as I have mentioned in my previous
>post) this saying is an equivalent of "About those who are dead say either
>good or nothing".
>
>Yours Truly,
>Timur

Unfortunately "Ad mortuum nihil veritas" can be accurately translated
only as gibberish such as "V mertvoe nichego istina".  What you have in
mind is:

	De mortuis nil nisi bonum
	`about the dead [say] nothing unless [it is] good`

Which should mean the same as its Russian equivalent (which is what?).

Isn't there an old joke in which the Georgian stolovaja patron is the
only one to ask for "odin kofe", gets praised by the cashier for his
fine command of Russian, and then follows it up with a request for "odin
bulochka"?

More kindly, you can't construct Latin by looking up individual words in
the dictionary.  You can't do that with any language, but especially not
an inflected language like Latin or Russian.

Mercifully,
David Pesetsky
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:7012 soc.history:7391
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.history
Subject: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:30:12 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <9208151820.AA22548@feds66.Prime.COM> "talk.politics.soviet
via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

a nameless ignoramus writes:

X:
>>Ukrainians lived with Jews if not quite peacefully,
>>but without holocausts

DL:
>Especially in Bohdan Khmelnitsky's times.

The first Hetman was nothing compared to the last one (one hopes!); from
1917 to 1920 over 100,000 Jews were murdered during pogroms, most of which
were conducted by uniformed members of the Ukrainian army.  Of my own
immediate family, at least two men were killed and one woman raped by
Petliura's troops.  I note that Shalom Schwartzbard, who assasinated Simon
Petliura in Paris on May 25, 1926, was acquitted by the French court, to
whose judgment he voluntarily submitted himself.  A similar judgment was
rendered in 1921 by the Weimar Republic court in Berlin in the case of the
Armenian assassin Tehlirian, who put an end to the life of the genocidal
Turkish murderer Talaat Bey, likewise insisting on standing trial for his
act.  There is a lesson here for our gutless, anomic times; I hope that it
won't be lost on my audience.

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: tbuck@teal.csn.org (Timothy E. Buchanan)
Subject: Soviet Archives: where?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:59:12 GMT

I have read that the Soviet archives on display in D.C. are 
available on the internet. Can someone tell me where and what files 
I can anonymous ftp to get these?
 
Spasibo,
Timothy.
From: DMITRIIZ@templevm.bitnet (DIMA)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: connections...
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:15:15 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

I would like to write to anybody in x-ussr.
Dmitrii.
From: wmelnitc@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Wally Melnitchouk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: a question
Date: 17 Aug 92 00:42:54 GMT

vgurarie@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Victor V. Gurarie) writes:

Just when you thought some sensible rational discussion was about to take
place on t.p.s., we have more racists terrorising peace-loving readers of
this newsgroup. Isn't one Hasan B. Mutlu enough?

>   I have a question which arose when we discussed the following with my
>friend. Everybody knows that Lithuanians (together with Ukranians and Poles)

Why didn't you include: Armenians, Austrians, Azeris, Bulgarians, Byelorusians,
Croatians, Czechs, Dutch, Estonians, Finns, French, Hungarians, Italians,
Latvians, Romanians, Russians, Slovaks.
Why are you so selective? Soft targets maybe? When exactly were Germans
rehabilitated?

>on the average were very glad to turn in Jews to Germans during the second
>world war, and they broke all the records in this business, even in compari-
>son with Germans themselves, who after all just did what it was told to them

Germans just did, reluctantly, what they were told, right? Just as communists,
also reluctantly, followed Stalin's orders and murdered 6-10 million peasants
(mostly Ukrainian) in 1932-33; just like Pol Pot's army were brainwashed into
killing 1 million Cambodians; etc, etc.....

>by Nazi propaganda, while above mentioned nations did that voluntary and
>with joy. And my question is whether Estonians (or Latvians) also did the

It has been a while since I've read such blatantly racist remarks.
Individuals' actions => evil nations? If so, what sould Palestinians conclude
from individual Jews' actions of the past. I'm sure even your cave-man
ancestors of 10,000 years ago were engaged in some dispicable acts against
others, performed I'm sure with some degree of joy.

>same, or maybe not, or maybe less often, or maybe not? I want to emphisize
>I do not need answers like "Stop this $%#$, Ukranians were always the best
>friends of Jewish people", or "You are @#$#@#$#%!". I need an answer from
>someone who really knows the subject.

How can you be ignorant to this, and still claim all of the above?

How do you think the latest round of massacres in Yugoslavia began?
If people like this were in positions of authority in the former USSR at
present, I fear there would be much more trouble than there already is.
Even with the economic, social, etc. problems being experience in Europe at
present, most people (of course you can find some exceptions) do want to live
without conflict.

Why don't we create a special newsgroup just for hatemongering?

Wally Melnitchouk.
From: jtk@rwmke.mil.wi.us ("Joseph T. Klein")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Looking for work in ex-USSR (Q)
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: Joseph T. Klein for Register of Deeds

You can put me on your e-mail list. I have contacts with a
small firm here that writes C compilers for dedicated microprocessors.

--
Free and open access to information is needed          Joseph T. Klein
for the maintenance of a modern democracy.             jtk@rwmke.mil.wi.us
                                                       (414) 372-4454
From: cosar@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Ahmet Cosar)
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:49:12 GMT

In article <1405@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:
>>   I note that Shalom Schwartzbard, who assasinated Simon
>>Petliura in Paris on May 25, 1926, was acquitted by the French court, to
>>whose judgment he voluntarily submitted himself.  
>
>Many in the Ukrainian community think that Schwartzbard was a 
>paid Bolshevik agent. There is a long history of asassination of
>Ukrainian nationalists by Soviet agents. There was Melnik(?) in 
>1938 in Rotterdam. In the 1960's, Bandera and Rebet were assassinated
>by a Soviet agents in Munich(?). 
>
>It is possible that Schwartzbard decide to try to avoid being 
>convicted of murder by trying to blame the pogroms in Ukraine on
>Petlyura. If Margolin's evidence, and other historical documents had been 
>available at the time, the court decision might have been different. 

And if the so-called "Andonian documents" which include the telegrams
claimed to be authored by Talaat Pasha hadn't been fabricated just in
time to be presented to the court, the Armenian assassin Tehlerian
wouldn't be able to escape from conviction either.

Not so long after this trial Britain occupied Istanbul and forcibly exiled
200 Ottoman WWI leading figures to Malta for "war-crime" trials, among them
many whose names were also present in Andonian's fabricated telegrams. For
some strange reason Mr Andonian didn't come forward (or wasn't invited)
with his fabricated telegrams while British were looking all over the world
(including allied an US archives) for evidence to charge them.

These Ottoman leaders were all freed without even being able to file a
case against them. Probably because they were not assassinated by
Tehlerian and were quite able to defend themselves against Armenian
liars such as Andonian.


--
   A.Cosar                                                                      ________________________________________________________________________                
Disc space -- the final frontier!                                               ________________________________________________________________________

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Disclaimer: I speak for myself<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: A question on this Armenia stuff...
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:32:19 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

A genocide is a deliberate and organized massacre of people in an
attempt to exterminate a race. This is the worst crime in history.
It happened to the Armenians in eastern Anatolia and the Turkish
dictatorship. 1.5 million Armenians and Greeks were killed in the
worst ways imaginable. It is sickening to think that the human race
is capable of such actions, but there is no denying the fact that
the Turkish genocide of 1.5 million Christians happened.

People of Armenia deeply sympathize with those whose relatives were
killed in the Armenian genocide. I understand their anger that there
are those who still deny that the Armenian genocide indeed took place,
despite the fact that the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians has been
well documented over the past six decades. We cannot reverse
the events of the past, but we can and we must strive to keep the
memory of this tragedy alive on this side of the Atlantic, so as
to help prevent a recurrence of the extermination of a people
because of their religion or their race.

With the full knowledge that the struggle for the Armenian territorial
demands are still in their initial stages, the Armenian and Greek people
will unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims
of the Armenian Genocide demand:

1. that the "Democratic" Turkish Government, as the heirs of the Turkish
dictatorship, recognize the Armenian Genocide;

2. that "Democratic" Turkey return the historic homeland to the Armenian and
Greek people;

3. that the "Democratic" Turkish Government make material reparations for their
heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Armenian Genocide;

4. that all world governments officially recognize the Armenian Genocide
and Armenian territorial rights and refuse to succumb to all Turkish
political pressure.

The awareness of the Armenian people of the necessity of solidarity in the
efforts to pursue the Armenian Cause is seen by the victims of the first
genocide of the 20th century as a positive step.
From: RUBAN@hartford.bitnet ("Timur Y. Ruban")
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: RE: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Date: 17 Aug 92 06:41:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

From:         Michael Zeleny <zeleny@HUSC9.HARVARD.EDU>

>The first Hetman was nothing compared to the last one (one hopes!);

By the way Boghdan was not the first Hetman, and Petlyura was not Hetman at
all - Skoropadski was! (though also a big jerk).

>from
>1917 to 1920 over 100,000 Jews were murdered during pogroms, most of which
>were conducted by uniformed members of the Ukrainian army.  Of my own
>immediate family, at least two men were killed and one woman raped by
>Petliura's troops.

With all my sorrow and condolences about the death of members of your family,
I would like to make some suggestions regarding that period of time.
  First of all, from 1917 till 1920 Ukraine was not under one Hetman, but
under dozens of different 'supervisions'. One ataman was fighting another,
"red" vs "white" vs "green" and all other colors.  Also do not forget Mahno,
who though was Ukrainian had quite 'international' army of bandits.  If you
will read carefully literature describing those times, you will found out
that Petlyura was not the only one who was killing Jews (and not only Jews).
The two 'best' soutces I can reccommend are K. Paustovsky (a brilliant writer
who was himself a witness of events in the beginning of the century) and
M. Bulgakov.  In their works "Povest o Zhizni" (Paustovski) and "Zapiski vracha"
and "Belaya Gvardia" (Bulgakov) is clearly stated that pogroms in Odesa and
Kiev were not only by Ukrainians, but also Russians and some of foreign armies:
Germans, Poles, etc. who also were in those cities for quite a while (by the way
Petlyura was appointed by German Commander of Troops in Ukraine).


>   I note that Shalom Schwartzbard, who assasinated Simon
>Petliura in Paris on May 25, 1926, was acquitted by the French court, to
>whose judgment he voluntarily submitted himself.  A similar judgment was
>rendered in 1921 by the Weimar Republic court in Berlin in the case of the
>Armenian assassin Tehlirian, who put an end to the life of the genocidal
>Turkish murderer Talaat Bey, likewise insisting on standing trial for his
>act.  There is a lesson here for our gutless, anomic times; I hope that it
>won't be lost on my audience.

Murder is always a murder.  Nobody gave us the right to take away human's life.
A criminal against humanity have to be tried  in court in front of everybody,
not just assasinated.  We all pay for what we do one way or another.  They
also did - now let all dead rest in peace.

>cordially,
>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>"Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."

Best regards,
Timur Ruban
"Ad mortius nihil veritas"

P.S.  I also have relatives who have been victimis of Halakaust and other kinds
of anti-semitic actions (I am Ukrainian by my father's side, but I am also
a Jew  by my mather's side - I equally value both of them)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Mutlu prayer
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:52:11 GMT

				
	In the name of Mutlu, King of Quotes, Horror of the Netters,
 
who's name makes all the newsgroups tremble.

	Who's name is the Terrible, who's name is the Reliable,

who's name is the Undeniable, who`s name is the Invincible, who's

name is the Truthful.

	We turn our hearts to Mutlu! We turn our minds to Mutlu!

Teach us, Great Master! Teach us, the ignorant, us, the

forgetful, us, the unknowledgeble! Share your wisdom with us, give
 
us a word of reason, shed the light of truth on our thirsty

souls!

	Indeed there is one Truth on earth and Mutlu

is the name of it!

	You, Horror of the Armenians, Nightmare of the Greeks,

Pain of the Many, punish them all justly and mercilessly,

and let the Providence double the power of your brain!

	 Speak!	

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: European Parliament Recognized Armenian Genocide in 1984
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:39:02 GMT

			*** *** ***	

	In the name of Mutlu, King of Quotes, Horror of the
Armenians, Nightmare of the Greeks, who`s name makes all the newsgroups
tremble. All hail Mutlu, who`s name is the Undeniable, who`s name is
the Reliable, who`s name is the Truthful ...

			*** *** ***


	Mutlu, where are you? Don`t give up so easily, man, 
let me play with you a little more ....

	So, did the European Parliament officially recognize the
Genocide of the Armenians in 1984?
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re:  'Charlap' Has Proved Himself A True Humanitarian.
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:41:48 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

For nearly three thousand years, the Armenian and Greek people
lived on their homeland - the last few hundred under the
oppressive Turkish occupation. The persecutions culminated
in 1914: The Turkish Government planned and carried out a
Genocide against its Christian subjects. 1.5 million
Armenians and Greeks were murdered and the remainder driven out
of their homeland. After three thousand years, Armenian and Greek
lands were empty of Armenians and Greeks.

The survivors found a safe heaven in Greece, Armenia and everywhere
worldwide.

Today, Turkish government rejects the right of Armenians and Greeks to
return to their Christian lands occupied by Turkey.

Today, Turkish government covers up the genocide perpetrated by its
predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against humanity.

Turkish government must pay for their crime of genocide against
the Christians by admitting to the crime and making reparations to
the Armenians and Greeks.

Armenians and Greeks demand the right to return to their lands,
to determine their own future as a nation in their own homeland.

The justice is long overdue.