From: aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 19 Nov 1992 22:27:31 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov19.061548.20932@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:

>wanted to say better, but it is not really true. It is better to be R.
>or C. then non-observant at all. What is scary about all this is that
>sooner or later you or your children will step even lower and then, G-d
>forbid, will just get out of it. I know a lot of Reform people that are
>xians now and have no idea about Judaism (nor about xnity). It is very
>easy to say that THAT will not happen to you. Oh,no, never.... 

Wow, Dima.  You are painting quite a unidirectional primrose path here.
Changing your religious affiliation (in any direction) is not something 
'happens' to you; religious affiliation is one of a very few things in
life people truly have a choice about.  I'd be highly surprised if any
of your Reform friends ever said, "I'm glad I'm a Jew, it would never
'happen' that I'd become a Christian", and then became a Christian.  
Orthodox Jews don't have the monopoly on being proud and happy to 
be Jewish (I hope you're not implying that), and people who take pride and
derive joy from being Jewish don't stop being Jewish.  Christianity is not
some evil fate lurking out there waiting to snatch non-Orthodox Jews 
irrespective of their own free will.

>you might call it just a coincidence, but I call it natural finish. And
>it is finish for her.(I am in the process of trying to get her back,
>but, boy, is it difficult.) Try to understand that if you are
>Conservative you are already one step down, the next step is Reform, BUT
>WHAT IS THE NEXT ONE, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF JUDAISM AFTER THAT.

Try to understand that the patronizing attitude you are displaying (whether
you are realizing it or not, you are saying that C is not as good as O,
R is not as good as C, beyond R. . .the devil and the deep blue sea) is
a huge turnoff (I'm not surprised you're having a difficult time convincing
this young woman that Judaism is in line with her view of the world).  
I have a difficult time hanging out with people (fundie Christians are the
ones I have in mind) who are convinced that 'Alexandra is such a nice 
person, what a shame [she's going to burn in hell because] she doesn't see
the error of her beliefs', but it's even sadder to see Jews saying the
exact same thing about other Jews.  Just take out the bracketed words.

>Then their children...

Since your experience with Jews from non-observant homes seems to be limited
to such dire examples, here's some perspective.   I grew up in a community of 
few Jews and no synagogue, in an extremely unkosher home filled to the brim
with Jewish books, music, and art; my mother baked challah every Friday and
taught herself to read Hebrew from books while pregnant with me so she could
teach me Hebrew, which I now speak fairly well.  (I continued studying in
college and have the chance to speak it regularly now.)  Yes, my parents
and brother still go to work/school on Yom Kippur; yes, I keep a kosher 
home (and just do the cooking myself when I visit my family, it's not
a problem).  I dated non-Jewish boys in high school; two of them have 
converted to Judaism (one is Orthodox now, the other Conservative) and have 
commented that spending Friday evenings with my family (who never go to shul)
was the first experience that made them feel that Judaism had an enormous
amount to offer them.  (I'm not extolling the benefits of interdating, Dima;
merely pointing out that people make all kinds of religious choices, and 
your portraying the different branches of Judaism as three steps on a ladder
with only one way to go--DOWN--is a sweeping generalization, and in my
experience, not a very accurate one.)

>That's the biggest problem with C. and R. they don't stay with their
>opinions they move further as the media (goyim) moves.

Would you care to cite an example of media-induced changes in the 
Conservative or Reform movements?

>
>Thanks,
>Dima

Even when I disagree with you, I will certainly agree that you're polite.  ;)

			. . .Alexandra




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish