HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 300ZX Owners
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:52:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.QfMWuli00awVA5wUwF
Organization: Junior, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Would you like to correspond with other ZX owners about
>the thrills of being an owner of the best working mans sports car in
the >world?

I don't want to start a flame war (really, I don't), but do working men
make a _lot_ more money where you live, or what? Frankly, it'll be
awhile before $35k (for the really good one) is in my price range --
like after my kids are through school and I've somehow paid off their
loans (note that I'm in school now, myself). Unless Nissan has managed
to incorporate a bedroom in the Z, I'll have to stick w/ sedans for now
and, maybe, someday, work for an Eagle Talon TSi.

I understand your point about the Z compared w/ Porsches or whatever,
but let's be realistic about who can afford it.

JMR
HSK

'93 SL2, blue-green
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ehawrysh@bcars6e7.bnr.ca (Evan Hawrysh)
Subject: Looking for Mustang mailing list
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 02:21:49 GMT

Is the late model Mustang mailing list still running?
I tried sending a request to

mustangs-request@cup.hp.com

but it bounced. Is there another address I can try?

Evan
ehawrysh@bnr.ca
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin)
Subject: Re: Q: how do i know if i need a new catalytic converter?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:18:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.162959.223@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>
>[ Story of penalties re: removing cat deleted ]
>
>In article <2577@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>
>>More than just fines -- you could lose the car.  It happened here in
>>Oregon a few years ago.  The owner of a new BMW removed his cat and the
>>state found out.  They required him not to operate the car until the
>>cat had been replaced by the *factory*.  Said factory is in Bavaria,
>>and the cost of all this exceeded the value of the car.
>
>See what happens when Eco-Nazi's and overzealous greenies take over? There
>is absolutely no reason a BMW dealer or independent shop couldn't have done
>that work.
>
>Stupid assholes. There ain't enough money in the world to get me to move
>out to one of those greenhead states out West. (Good thing there ain't no
>spotted owls out here in Mass, or I'd go out and shoot one right now.)
>
>	-Kenny
>
>p.s. - of course, now that I've thought about it, this could have been pro-
>paganda- why couldn't he have sold it in another state without green-shit-
>for-brains lawmakers, who would allow the cat to be retrofitted?
>-- 
>Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
>OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
>kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
>	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.

	Uh, Kenneth, did you ever think that maybe the Government of the 
owner's state has an eye out for the safety and health of not just the planet,
but the states residents?  And as I remember, the law is a FEDERAL STATUTE, so
it applies in Boston too.  I have NO sympathy for any asshole who, to drop
1/10 sec in 0-60 times, removes the catalytic converter.  Oh, and BTW, good
use of the word "ain't", it makes you look even more credible...

	Notice the absence of ":-)'s".

					Chintan Amin


-- 
Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu  ->EVERYTHING I.M.H.O.<-
The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jeclee@uncc.edu (Jeffrey Charles Lee)
Subject: Acura Legend Transmission Problem
Reply-To: jeclee@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:42:20 GMT

My father's brand new '92 Legend with less than 300 miles on it has developed a leak in the transmission. To fix this leak, the transmission will have to be removed. This is very sad that something so major would have to be done to a car that cost so much and is only a couple of weeks old.

Is this any indication of the service that we are likely to get out of the car?

Has anyone else experienced a similar problem? What eventually happened? 

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Safe cars
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 01:21:29 GMT

In article <C1Kv8M.1FE@apollo.hp.com> lubkin@apollo.hp.com () writes:

   What is the safest vehicle configuration I can buy, in
   terms of model and options, considering that it will be
   driven in dry, wet, and snow on-road conditions?

   My naive guess would be the long Volvo station wagon,
   assuming I could get it with anti-lock brakes, four-wheel
   drive, and no air bag.  But is that really so?

I hear they sell Humvees to civilians now.  Arnold Schwarzenegger
drives one--why not you?
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying(Buying a Japanese car)
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:27:20 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan21.185010.5478@rtsg.mot.com> pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga) writes:
>Here is a thought to ponder as we all make our individual purchase 
>decisions....
>
>  The more our industrial base falters and our economies weaken the
>  better the chance that our children will be "flipping burgers" in
>  our new service oriented economy.  This would be due to that fact 
>  that engineering and technical (high paying) jobs would be scarce
>  and all that would remain would be service sector.  If this happens
>  we will probably see the hollywood and sports (kind of a service)
>  salaries fall drastically too!
>
>Just a thought...
>
   Here is another one for you:

   Sooner or later US companies are going to have to learn how to
   survive in a global economy or perish.  A surprising number have
   already learned this.

   Patronizing the dinosaurs who refuse to pay attention to changing
   conditions merely prolongs the agony of their deserved passing.

   Refusing to acknowledge the necessity for adaption to a changing
   world merely makes you part of the problem and delays the
   solution.  And increases the possibility that you may be part of
   the extinction.  Unfortunately you'll take a lot of innocent
   civilians with you.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates 959 for sale? the rumor continues..
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 07:33:49 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1993Jan20.170112.130645@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>OK, I admit I haven't fully educated myself about the Skyline. ALthough the
>technology is well advanced, which car do you think will hold up better and
>have more value 10 years down the road?  I don't think any Japanese car will
>attain the "classic" status as an older Porsche. We will have to wait and see
>what happens.

Some of us prefer cars to be better rather than just having more pose
value.


-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
 Technical Writer | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
   Wellington, NZ | Yes, I do have long ears, a black nose, and a tail.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:46:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.220535.10804@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>cause their results to be wildly different from the results of the
>whole group.  this is a critical issue in the reliability of CR's
>ratings.  if the sample size is too small, it's not going to be much
>more reliable than asking one or two people.  the information they
>give may still be useful, but it will be lacking in authoritativeness.
>

How can you say their sample size is too small. Do you know what
tolerances they are willing to accept?

john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rehrauer@apollo.hp.com (Steve Rehrauer)
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying(Buying a Japanese car)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:18:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <CARL.93Jan26153758@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl) writes:
>Second, I think that you're pissing into the wind by stating "Japan
>has high productivity."  In certain arena they do have higher
>productivity that we do but the converse is also true.  They are
>certainly *not* supermen doing the work of 5 people here in the US.

In fact, based on what I read, I'd not be surprised if US workers' per-hour
productivity were a fair bit higher than their Japanese counterparts.  On
the other hand, our Japanese counterparts apparently do work quite a few more
hours...
-- 
"Look, Max: 'Cheese in a pressurized can'! |   Steve rehrauer@apollo.hp.com
 Even WE wouldn't eat THAT!"               | H.P. Systems Technology Division
   -- Freelance Police                     |    Massachusetts Language Lab
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: Rain-X?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:54:44 GMT

goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) writes:

>Does this product really work?

>If so, are their any side-effects, or consequences?

Well, I swear by the stuff.  Especially on the highway, you can get to a point
where you don't even NEED your wipers while others have theirs on at full
speed.  The only drawback I have encountered is that the rain-X needs to be
reapplied pretty often, like maybe once every 3 weeks or so.  I have heard a
few Rain-X horror stories, but I have never had any real problems on four dif-
ferent windshields.

The anti-fog stuff, however, is only handy if your heater doesn't blow oil
smoke due to some hidden PCV problem, like a certain old Bavarian car of 
mine.......

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee       | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
"It has been said - mostly by illiterates and conserv-|  \    /   HATE
atives - that the belief in God is at the base of the |   \  /  is not a
American system, and that the United States is a prod-|    \/  FAMILY VALUE
uct of Christian piety."  -  Leonard Peikoff          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hpan@hila.hut.fi (Huachen Pan)
Subject: What is the problem?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:04:09 GMT


I was driving my Mitsubishi Labcer from home to office this morning.
I found the lubrication oil warning lamp was on when I was 500 meters
away from my office. I read from the manual that '' when you find oil
warning lamp is on in driving, stop immediately and call the nearest
Mitsubishi dealer'' but still drove it to the parking place.
In the office I discussed this with my collegue. He said you should check
if your oil is not enough. After half hour in the office, I went out to check
and found the oil level was pretty normal. Strangest thing was that when I 
restarted the car, it was OK. During the following 10 kilometers driving,
the warning lamp was totally normal again.

One other collegue suggested that it was probably a temporary problem in
electric wire contacting problem. This morning was quite wet and there are
lots of water on the road. He said if your oil is enough and the oil pump
is broken then the lamp should always on. 

Is there any other comments on this phenomenon? I really worry about it,
someone told me that if you have problem in lubrication oil system it may
totally destroy your engine.

So what is the problem after all?

Regards 
H.P.
Organization: Junior, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:44:08 -0500 
From: "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
	<C1H6nx.7G3@ssesco.com>

>|> >Ken Rothman <krothman.727987654@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> writes:
>|> >> With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in
the pas
>t ten
>|> >> years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this
beast is
> an
>|> >         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would call the latter half of this patently false. Can you point to a
single Japanese design before, say, '89 model year that was particularly
original or advanced w/ respect to aerodynamics (real or affected)?
Hell, until this year Camrys (Toyota's bread and butter) were boxes that
most resembled Kcars w/ flush headlights and a few curved edges. I'm not
sure about the Caprice, but at least it took a chance, and went with an
extreme -- full tilt swoopy. I'd say even the newest Civics look closer
to a facelift than a new generation, yet it was lauded for its looks.
Oh, and, finally, most of the "best" (this is all subjective, of course)
Japanese designs are, in fact from California (esp. the Lexus coupes).
So much for Japanese "advances"....
From: r_moore@vger.nsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock blues
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:10:38 EDT

In article <1jnatcINN5q8@hp-col.col.hp.com>, theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel) writes:
> Having just experienced the anti-lock brakes on my
> '92 Nissan SE-R for the first time I immediately rushed down
> to the local dealer to have the system checked.  They said
> it was "normal"...
> 
> What happens is an incredibly loud grinding noise
> that I can also feel in the brake pedal whenever
> the antilock is engaged.  It's so violent a combination
> of noise and grinding feel that my (involuntary) reaction is to
> jerk my foot off the brake pedal, not good!
> 
> My question to you, especially if you own an SE-R or other
> Nissan with antilock brakes, is is this "normal"?
   I don't have a Nissan, it's a '92 Chevy Corsica, with ABS and yes it's a
very disturbing feeling/noise when they engage....

>
From: yjkim@stein.u.washington.edu (Yong Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Toyota Corolla DX price
Date: 27 Jan 1993 20:40:41 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Keywords: $11,222?

A local dealber advertises Corolla DX 93 at $11,222. This looks
interesting because "invoice" price for DX is 11,263. The dealer
says $11,222 is the delivery price (i.e. including destination).
I would like to buy, but are they selling the car losing
their money?  Can somebody explain?  Thanks!

-- 
Yong J. Kim  yjkim@milton.u.washington.edu
Department of Management Science
School of Business Administration
University of Washington
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Citroen CX
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:44:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1k40pjINNn4l
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <8463@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:
>
>Actually, I find some Citroens quite attractive. I'm not sure if they were
>ever imported to the US but the CX2000 and CX2200 Pallas of the late 70s were
>simply gorgeous automobiles. They would look absolutely stunning if they're
>produced today.

--I like the looks of the CX also.  In fact, I saw some ads for 87 Citroen
  CX GTi's and CX Prestige's in AutoWeek a while ago, with 30K miles for
  around $17,000.  Now if anyone wants something different, this is the
  car!  I hear that its ride is matched by only a few cars today, and it
  is indeed practical, being a five-door hatch.  You don't find too many
  practical exotics anymore (I consider the CX to be an exotic car).

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.forsale,misc.wanted,ba.forsale,ba.wanted,ca.wanted
From: rudi@netcom.com (Rudolf Usselmann)
Subject: Where to buy cheap Cars/Trucks in quantity ???
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Where to buy cheap Cars/Trucks in quantity ???
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:22:02 GMT


Where to buy cheap Cars/Trucks in quantity ???

Hi , I'm want to buy 10 Trucks (make not really important), something
similar to the Ford Bronco Explorer (must have a closed back).

However, I don't want to pay the standard dealer price, and it seems
to me that even so he says he will give me a better deal, I could do
better without the dealer. So how/where do I get the Cars/Truck from ?
I heared of something called "Fleet Dealers" suposently they are not open
to public, but will sell in quantities really cheap. How do I get in touch
with them ? What other alternatives (that work) do I have ?

I will try to contact the Manufacturers directly, but am not sure if
my quantity is sufficiant for them.

Any pointers & help highly appreciated.

Oh, and they must be new but can be older model.

rudi
rudi@netcom.com
(510) 745-7834 - home
(415) 321-8692 - work
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mhartman@ais.org (Mark Hartman)
Subject: Mazda RX-7, looking for club/info.
Organization: UMCC
	I am looking for a club, or mailing lists or anything of that
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:01:55 GMT

sort about Mazda RX-7's.  I have an 81 RX-7.  I have been spending a LARGE
sum of money getting this car "nice".  I would like to see about a club if
there is any.  Thanks.

---
Mark Hartman (email: mhartman@ais.org)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: To get a Car user's manual for Dodge Colt.
From: cs_sic@cs2.lamar.edu
Date: 20 Jan 93 16:59:39 CST

I purchased a used car, '81 Dodge Colt and I don't have a manual for that so I
need information for getting manual for that model. Please reply me at
cs_sic@cs2.lamar.edu

Thank You.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: greene@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Courtney Greene)
Subject: Re: GM Minivans to be discontinued?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:10:30 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.
Keywords: minivan

When the vans are redesigned, I heard they are no longer going to use the
plastic body panels due to the cost.

CG
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:21:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.171220.25082@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <frank.727928633@kynok.ucs.ubc.ca> frank@unixg.ubc.ca (Murray Frank) writes:
>>In <1993Jan24.141549.16369@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>>
>>
>>>I'd like to conduct an informal poll here: what do the gentle readers of this
>>>group think is the WORST car being made today???  (And why?)  It must be a 
>>>car still being manufactured, so a 1975 Dodge Dart doesn't count.  :-)
>>
>>>This should generate some healthy debate...

perhaps we should list the worst car for each company and then have an
overall runoff for *the* worst car???

gm: pontiac lemans(junk, boring), geo sprint(3 cylinders does not a car make),
    chevy camero(no explanation needed,,,but for 1993 model this will all 
    change), buick sklark(ugly snout and interior), OLDsmobile cutlass ciera(
ancient design...boring chrome-mobile), cadillac??

ford: tempo(junk, old design, junk, ford quality)
mercury: topaz(more junk options than the tempo means more things to break)
chrysler:...shadow and twin or daytona(old design..sorta junky..but not like
            ford and mercs winners...)
nissan:  ??
honda:  various rotor-eating, valve-adjustment-needed, underpowered mobiles.
        ah...lets just call it prelude for the ugly dash and butt-end and 
        being very overpriced.
toyota:  paseo wins easy...ugly..overpriced..well then again...the celica 
         is way way overpriced and underpowered...tough call....
mazda:  mx-3...expensive unimpressive-mobile in ever aspect..except price which
        is outrageous...gives toyota a run in the overpriced area.
enough for now....
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bisc@zellweger.ch (Thomas K. Bischoff)
Subject: Re: List of clone automobiles
Reply-To: bisc@zellweger.CH (Thomas K. Bischoff)
Organization: Zellweger Uster AG, Switzerland
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:44:29 GMT

In article <mills.727941464@dialup.athena.lkg.dec.com> mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills) writes:
>v064mcqs@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL GANDLER) writes:
>
>
>>  Alot of people out there dont realize that they are alot of vehicles
>>cloned. Especially in the American Companies. Here is a small list of
>>some that I know. Feel free to add.
>
>>Geo Prizm / Toyota Corolla
>>Hyundai Excel / Mitsuibishi Precis
>>Dodge Caravan / Plymouth Voyager / Chrysler Town & Country   ( Very Obvious )
>>Olds Silhouette / Chevy Lumina APV / Pontiac Transport    ( Even more obvious)
>>Dodge Spirit / Plymouth Aclaim
>>Dodge Dynasty / Chrysler Newyorker
>>Dodge Shadow / Plymouth Sundance  
>>Plymouth Laser / Mitsuibishi Eclipse / Eagle Talon
>>Dodge Monaco / Eagle Premier
>>Dodge Stealth / Mitsuibish 3000GT
>>Dodge Ram 50 / Mitsuibishi Mighty Mac

Which are the originals, which are the clones ?

-- 
Thomas K. Bischoff    Net: bit@ten.ch,bisc@zellweger.ch 
***** Minds, like parachutes, only function when open.
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: best car ads
Date: 27 Jan 1993 23:03:57 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

jmh@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jeffrey M. Hoffmeister) writes:

>I've actually heard alot of reports about people being injured in
>Volvos because the body is too rigid.  Most new cars are designed
>to crumple in a crash, thus absorbing the impact, Volvos are built
>like a tank, therefore the body is left to absorb the impact
>of the crash.

>Can anyone provide iany information to support/negate these reports?

Well, the situation is similar to the trends in bicycle helmet construction.
You can build it to be very rigid so that it will save your life in a 
very violent collision but hurt (not kill) you in a lesser collision.
Alternatively, you can make it less rigid and suffer no injury in a 
variety of mild collisions but die in the first violent one.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.

I own both a rigid car and bike helmet (Saturn SL2/Bell TourLite).

David Basiji
UW Bioengineering
NeRD #3762
From: ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: What to Expect from ABS
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:33:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


I've just ordered a '93 Mercury Sable with the ABS brakes and would
like to know what to expect.  I've seen posts here recently from folks
who have had interesting experiences with their ABS brakes: pulsing,
grinding noises and a variety of other characteristics.  Obviously ABS
systems "function" differently than standard brakes under normal
circumstances.  Has anyone had experience with Ford ABS products?
Thanks.

-stu
-- 
                   ---===<<< Stuart Pearl >>>===---
                           Cleveland, Ohio
                      ah190@cleveland.freenet.edu
                         --------------------