HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnson@elec.uq.oz.au (Craig Johnson)
Subject: HELP FOR THE NAIVE AND IGNORANT
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 05:27:59 GMT


People,
	Forgive my naivity, but would somebody tell me how I can
determine which articles in the group are new and which are not
since the last time I looked?  Every time I look at the posts I'm
not sure if I've read them or not or which ones are new.  Thanks
for any help!  (Personal reply would be best, thanks.)

					In Christ,
					Craig Johnson
					johnson@s1.elec.uq.oz.au
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:07:00 CST
From:         KCONE@UTMEM2.BITNET
Subject:      MORE ON ABORTION

Many on the list are obviously offended by the term "pro-abortion,"
for they claim that they are not for abortion. And I believe them.
I also believe, however, that the *leaders* of the "pro-choice" movement
are indeed pro-abortion. Abortion to them means power and money. They
*want* to women to choose an abortion over any other option. Their
angry reaction when a women chooses life demonstrates this. Also, if
they were so concerned about women then why do they not provide FREE
abortions (I'm sure that some "clinics" do, but the vast majority make
a killing performing abortions). Pro-lifers truly are concerned about
women (born and unborn) and demonstrate it by giving of their time
and money to provide primarily free or inexpensive help to those in
need.

For those out there who are pro-choice, I ask you to look at your
leaders, examine their motives (and their spiritual condition), and
ask yourself if you want to be identified with them.

Kevin
Memphis
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Organization: Samford University
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:54:31 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>

On Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:49:00 CDT Love does not subtract, it multiplies. said:
><"Wife abuse doesn't occur in families in which husbands are unsaved or
><alcoholics, where mothers work outside the home or couples are only nominally
><Christian.  Many of the abused women with whom we talked are married to church
><leaders, deacons or pastors.  They all consider themselves to be committed
><Christians and for the most part would uphold traditional family values.  Few
><would label themselves feminists, and almost without exception they have
><worked hard at being submissive to thier husbands" (pg.16)
>
>That statement should probably read "doesn't only occur."  Abuse occurs in
>families of all types.
>
>Dan

Dan,
    You are right - my mistake, not the text.  Sorry


                                               SRA
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:49:42 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      deacons and the Eucharist

Zane writes that in ancient times,

 > deacons anministered the sacrament to the people. I believe
 > this is now the role of the priest. This is one reason why I
 > said that what a priest was then and what one is now are
 > different.

The role of a priest is to speak the blessing over the bread and
wine. After this, it may be administered to the people by someone
not a priest. A usual arrangement is for the priest to administer
the Bread, followed by a deacon, who administers the Chalice.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:34:43 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer request

Friends,

My daughter, Sarah, left this morning for the International
Lutheran Youth Gathering in New Orleans.  The youth from our
church are taking a bus with other young people from Michigan.
Please pray for their safety on the trip, and that many will
come to know their Lord in a deeper relationship.  There are
over 22,500 young people and counselors attending.

Thanks,
Carol Nemec
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:37:11 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      I'm dead

Praise the Lord!

Thanks for sharing, Kerry.

I am crucified with Christ so that I no longer live but Jesus Christ
who lives in me....I forget where it's from but the song has been
running through my mind for several weeks now.

Now if I could only remember to 'live' that way!  I thank the Lord
for His forgiveness.

Carol
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:15:00 CST
From:         JULIA 204 <JRS1488@TAMVENUS.BITNET>
Subject:      reply to Julie

Julie,
        I'm really not sure who wrote that poem.  A friend of mine gave
it to me this past year at a time in my life when I was going through alot
of pain that I couldn't seem to give completely to Christ.  She (Kelley)
(that's my friend) MAY have written the poem, but I doubt it.  I never
really asked her, I'm sorry I don't have the author for you!  ( I suppose
it's illegal to do that...).  Anyway, I'll be praying for you and your
family--please keep us up on how everything turns out!!
                                    IN HIS LOVE,
                                        Julia <><
Ps) Welcome to Christia!!  I think you'll really like it!!  I just
joined recently, too!!
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: "Communion of saints"
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:16:50 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

The RC and Anglican churches, and probably others, use a creed that includes the line "I believe in the communion of saints". What does it mean? When did that line first enter the creeds?

In article <CHRISTIA%92072022245852@ASUACAD.BITNET>, MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Marty Helgesen) writes:
>                                                       God, who is
> omniscient, knows of our prayers to the saints, and makes these
> prayers known to them.  This is part of what is meant by the state-
> ment in the Creed that one believes in the Communion of Saints.

This seems doubtful to me; I'd have guessed that that line in the creed
originated before "saint" changed in meaning from "fellow-Christian" to
"specially honoured dead Christian"; in which case, perhaps the "communion of
saints" is something related to the disciples holding everything in common?

Does anyone out there *know*?
Xref: sparky bit.listserv.christia:11343 talk.religion.misc:12450
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia,alt.athiesm,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Faith in the Word (was: Drinking & christian living)
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:41:01 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <nyarko.711754515@ee.ualberta.ca> nyarko@ee.ualberta.ca (David Nyarko) writes:
>no improvement. She said the youth pastor once said to her that
>probably what was holding back her healing could be that someone had
>spoken words over her (cursed her or a generation curse). She said she
>thought nothing of it, but one Sunday morning during church service, she
>felt the Holy Spirit asking her to go forward during the evening service,
>and the Holy Spirit brought back thoughts from her childhood were she
>remembered that she had a quarrel with a child and the child cursed her
>saying she would have a terrible sickness. Because this serious diabetic
>condition occured later in life, she could not relate it to that
>incident. And it seemed odd to her how this could affect her. To cut
>a long story short, that same night during the service, the Pastor
>preached on curses and how any believer has the authority to have
>them broken through the work of Jesus Christ at the cross. She
>went forward, was prayed for, and since then, she has stopped using
>the fast -acting medication (this was like a quick-boost), much to
>the shock of her doctor who thought she would die if she went of it.


I have been raised in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches.  I believe
in God's power to heal, but I must admit that I am a bit wary of these
curse doctrines.  I can understand how one could say that a curse that 
invokes demonic power, perhaps like the curse Balaam was hired to give,
could have some power.  What I do not know is why anyone would believe
that a curse spoken by a child in the power of human flesh would have power
over another person.  I think maybe some Charismatic teaching overemphaises
the power of human speech.  I could understand if the woman repented, or
forgave the other girl, or just prayed and believed God that this would be the
catalyst, so to speak, for a healing.  James writes that we are to confess
our faults one to another and pray one for another that we may be healed.
What I do not understand is the Scriptural justification for the idea that
the power of the words of mere humans have this kind of power.  of course
they can hurt others, and they can get us into trouble.  What is Scriptures
are there to support this?


Link
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:02:57 PST
From:         FRANK@LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Divorce and Remarriage

>
> Does anyone know if Ted Kennedy got his first marriage annulled or not?

   No.  His first marriage is still considered valid by the Church.


> Also, if he married without getting the first marriage annulled, what
> is his status in the Catholic church?

   Tricky question actually.  In the eyes of God and the Church he is
   still married to his first wife.  However, legally they are
   divorced.  I guess his status which is really all it can be is,
   divorced.

   Frank
   frank@law.ucla.edu
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:59:12 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Changing Opinions (Edify)

Ian,

Our president is not a king.  He is a leader not a dictator.  He can tell the
people what he believes but he cannot force them to live by his standards.
I think that he should be praised for standing up against abortion in a time
when the morals of people are decaying.  He stands to lose alot by speaking
up the way he has in a time when people are growing more self centered and less
family oriented.  I don't think President Bush is perfect but I do admire the
man for his courage and his defense of Dan Quayle and his Christian values.

I do not intend to debate this with anyone so please just ignore me.

                                     Your friend in Christ, Bernice
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:37:00 EDT
From:         CHRIS LEMAY <9011500@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: children with learning problems

Just a little note:

        It scares me just how many people forget what I.Q. means.  I.Q.
tests were developed with the very SPECIFIC purpose of determining how
well a person would do in school.  They unfortunately gained more and
more widespread acceptance because they were so good at predicting just
that: how well an individual would do in SCHOOL (our ordinary, less than
satisfactory Western School system ... incidently) ... even S.A.T. tests
are a form of I.Q. tests.  It is very unfortunate that I.Q. has come to
be associated with intelligence.  Unless one defines intelligence as the
ability to do well in school, or, in an even more useless way, as what
I.Q. tests measure, ... I.Q. is NOT a measure of intelligence!

                        In His Love,
                                Chris L.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:56:33 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: One of my very favorite hymns

Hi:

James' response to Madge's hymn (beautiful, by the way, thanks, Madge!)
has made me wonder.

Is there any actual linguistic historical connection between "hymn"
and "Him"?

On a related note, I have heard people say that "history" is "His
Story."  Is there any linguistic historical basis for this?

Thanks,
       Love and Curiousity INC,
                               --Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:47:00 EDT
From:         DCC@VASSAR.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Already read Prophet

I read Prophet about a month ago.  While I will admit that it was an
excellent novel, I did not get the "wow" response for it that I
received from the two "Darkness" novels.  This may be due to the fact
that I prefer non-fiction to fiction, and that the "Darkness" novels
were so original in concept that I was floored by both the content
and the concept.  Peretti is an excellent writer.  The only complaint
I have against Prophet is that the "prophet" angle of the book takes
a back seat to the abortion angle.  The concept of a modern day prophet
is fascinating, but the idea was not developed quite enough for me.
But, in all, the book was an excellent read.  I highly recommend it
to all.

Scott

 :=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:
 =   \   __   /   : Scott Derby - C.C.B.E.T.                : "He gave His   =
 :    __|  |__    : Dutchess Community College              : Life... What   :
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 =                : disciples, that you love one another."  : are IMHO. :)   =
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:37:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Pro and Anti designations.
X-To:         christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

I was very disturbed by the suggestion that pro-choice was an euphamism,
but pro-life was a true label.  They are both attempts to dominate people
and ideas by false designations.  Sure, pro-choice is an euphamism for a
lot of bad thinking and action, but pro-life is just as bad.  The people
against abortion legality wear the pro-life badge like some sort of coat of
arms to be proud of.  I know many whose attitude is "If you aren't
pro-life, you're obviously pro-death."  This is complete tripe.

If you think of yourself as pro-life, are you consistant?  Are you a
comjplete pacifist?  Are you categorically against the taking of life,
human or animal?  Are you against war, capital punishment, covert CIA
actions where there "collateral damages," meaning innocent deaths?  If you
really want the label pro-life, you had better think carefully of what it
means.   You may believe with all your heart that abortion must be
eliminated for it is murder and slaughter of the unborn and defenseless,
but that does not make you pro-life, just andi-abortion.

To be pro-life, you must stand for the preservation of all life at all
times at all costs.  Better become a vegetarian and become an anti-military
pacifist!

Now, do I really mean all this?  I am serious in wanting you all to think
carefully about the label you either take for yourselves, or brand others
with.  With these pro- and anti- labels come emotional ideas and knee-jerk
reactions that are not fitting of Christians.  The only label you should
have is the name of Jesus Christ.  You are a Christian, and that should say
it all.  I would even include political parties in that.  (I am not a
member of any.)

You aren't even whatever you do for a living, that is just to occpuy you
and support you so you can do God's will in other matters.  Watch those
labels.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:29:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Multiple Personalities

<Carol;
<She already has a shrink. And is in lots of thearpy. She says
<she is a christian. And I just want to know if other Christians,
<believe in multiple personalities.

This may not be true of all her personalities, however.

Dan
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: mktjadx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Jeff A. Dilcher)
Subject: Fabulous Prophecies of the Messiah..... HELP AGAIN
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:37:12 GMT

I have been sent a rather large text file by a man named Jim Lippard.
The file is called "Fabulous prophecies of the Messiah", and is 
from an organization called Evangelism Response.  The author supposedly
debuncts the prophecies of the Messiah in scripture, or casts doubts 
on them.

I was wondering if anyone has specifically written a response to this
article, or is interested in me sending it to them in order that they
might do so.  

My thanks in advance.  Also, thanks to all those who offered me help on
my last problem in answering those critical of bible manuscript integrity.

Your friend, 
Jeff


-- 
 
  Jeffrey A. Dilcher                                   Atlanta, GA, USA
mktjadx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu                             Telephone 404-266-1585
      NSS #25914                                       II Peter 1:10,11
 



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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:59:57 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: George Bush did not lie

Kerry,

In the book _ You Reject Them, You Reject Me: The Prison Letters of
Joan Andrews _ there is a letter on p. 189-191 to Bernard and Adele
Nathanson that strongly implies his conversion, although as I reread
the words they do not say so explictly.

I have heard a tape of Nathanson in which he says of some ridiculous
statement by pro-abortionists, "They must think we were born again
yesterday."

Why don't you write and ask him?

Incidentally, anyone interested in the right to life movement, especially
in Operation Rescue and other direct action should read Joan Andrews' book.
In 1986 she entered a Florida abortion center and tried to disarm a
suction abortion machine.  She was arrested and charged with burlary,
malicious mischief, resisting arrest and assault.  (Assault in Florida
carries a possible life sentence, but that charge was dropped, after
four months, because it was baseless.  She was found guilty in a
non-jury trial and sentenced to five years in prison.  Florida
sentencing guidelines recommend one year to thirty months maximum for
convicted burglars, but the judge didn't like her refusal to cooperate.
Later the same day, after sentencing Joan Andrews to five years in
prison he sentenced two men who had been convicted of being accesories
to a murder to only four years.

While she was in prison she was severely mistreated.  The details
can be found in her letters and in other documents in the book.

The book was published in 1988 by Trinity Communications, a now defunct
small Catholic publisher.  In 1989 it was reprinted by Wolgemuth &
Hyatt, an Evangelical Protestant publisher.  I saw a copy of the
Wolgemuth & Hyatt edition in a Catholic bookstore (The fact that a
Catholic bookstore had the Protestant edition rather than the Catholic
edition may help explain why Trinity Communications is no longer in
business.  There was an obvious problem with its marketing.) So far
as I know the only difference between the two editions was a new
introduction or foreword saying that although Joan Andrews is a
Catholic, and Protestant readers might be put off by her mentions of
Mary and the rosary, she really is a pro-life heroine.  (I am broadly
paraphasing from memory, but that was the gist of it.)  Books in
Print lists only the Trinity Communications edition under author but
both under title.  The Wolgemuth & Hyatt edition is an $8.95 paperback.

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:56:49 DNT
From:         Claus Tondering <ct@DDE.DK>
Subject:      Peretti info wanted

Hi,

Could anyone give me some biographical background about Frank Peretti?

Like: How old is he? To what denomination does he belong? Where does
he live? Does he make a living from writing, or has he got a "regular" job?

Thanks.

Yours in Christ,
Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:25:38 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      For Sunday 16 July 1992
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

FOR SUNDAY 26 JULY 1992

READING: Genesis 18:20-33
 (Abraham intercedes for any righteous remnant that may be found in
Sodom, and God promises to spare the city if it contains ten good
men.)

PSALM 138 ("Though I walk through troubles, thou dost uphold me.")

EPISTLE: Colossians 2:6-15
 (Do not be distracted by theories about archangels and "forces." In
Jesus Christ there dwells the fulness of God, and by His death and
resurrection He has freed you, breaking the power of sin and death.)

THE HOLY GOSPEL: Luke 11:1-13
 (Jesus teaches his disciples to pray ("Our Father"), and shows them
by earthly examples that their heavenly Father will hear and
befriend them.)

PRAYER
   O God, the protector of all that trust in thee, without whom
   nothing is strong, nothing is holy: Increase and multiply
   upon us thy mercy, that, thou being our ruler and guide, we
   may so pass through things temporal, that we finally lose not
   the things eternal; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth
   and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever
   and ever.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:13:53 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "Covenanted" marriage partners attending different churches
              22 Jul 1992 02:43:37 GMT from <nlt@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

NLT:

Actually, what I meant by "covenanted" marriage partners was those who
call themselves Christian who also consider that their marriage is
a joining of two people into "one flesh" and that, therefore, they
are no longer two individuals, but one entity in submission to Christ.
I am wondering how, in an area as supremely important as which
congregational body one submits one's self to for fellowship, teaching,
and discipline, a single entity can justify splitting back into two
parts.  It seems to me that a couple that has become one flesh would
seek to remain as a united entity in the intimate and serious relationship
to Christ that one seeks to edify through membership in a particular body
of believers, and that celebrating the unity of the congregation with
God would best be done as a married couple.  I am not criticizing, I am
just wondering how such a practice would enhance the unity of a
married couple that believed in the covenant as I have described it.
(I understand how those who interpret the concept differently could
do so.  I am wondering whether my interpretation is unusual, or whether
it is common amongst nominal Christians, evangelicals, fundamentalists,
and others.)
                   Love INC,
                            ---Kerry
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