HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: careful handling required?
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:18:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Nov7.033452.15289@crl.dec.com> barb@martigny.ai.mit.edu (Barb Miller) writes:

Quoting Annie Dillard, in _Living by Fiction_:

> "Finally, plain prose is almost requisite for handling violent or
>emotional scenes without eliciting dismay or nausea in the reader.  We
>have long since tired of imitation fine writing, of bad fine writing,
>of the overwritten, gushing prose which we find not only in unskilled
>literature but also in junk fiction--and we tire of it especially in
>the wringingly emotional and violent scenes of which failed literature
>and junk are made.  So unless he is William Faulkner, a serious writer
>of this century has little other recourse than to plain writing for
>violent and emotional scenes.  If a writer wants to play safe, he will
>underwrite all drama.  Plain prose affords distance; it permits scenes
>to be effective on their narrative virtues, not on the overwrought
>insistence of their author's prose."

Dillard would, of course, write something like this.  When I read her
childhood autobiography, I was struck by the extreme downplaying of
emotion and the near-total emphasis on analysis and thought.  This is a
woman who consistently "affords distance," presumably in her private life
as well as in her prose.  I enjoy her work immensely.  But I also love
Dostoevsky, who downplays _nothing_ and milks emotional and dramatic scenes
for all they're worth.  Truth be told, I find I resonate more to his work
than to hers, though in terms of pure techniqe I believe she's the better
writer.  

It strikes me that she would be the type of writer who simply isn't
comfortable with "wringingly emotional" scenes of any sort.  There's
something to be said for the heightened drama of understatement, which
most modern, serious writers lean toward.  But there's also something to
be said for the passionate excess of the old masters, too.  I miss it
sometimes.

  



-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Columbus and the Egg?
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:25:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.151358.21053@ultb.isc.rit.edu> entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>Columbus was napping one afternoon dreaming dreams of conquest and
>exploitation.  An egg fell out of the sky and struck him on the head.
>He awoke, and, his usual thought patterns disrupted by this blow to
>the head, had a flash of creativity in which he invented the Hardboiled
>Detective story.

Was this before or after he discovered Ohio?


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I can solve this Orient Express thing without
mnemonic@eff.org| breaking a sweat. It's that simple."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Hercule Perot
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Date: 12 Nov 1992 14:33:09 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Ken Warkentyne writes:

	To badly translate Bergson, it is not so much that Man is an animal
	that knows how to laugh but that Man is a funny animal.  No aspect 
	of human existance is immune from a humourous treatment and 
	laughter is impossible only in heaven or in hell.

In fact, Bergson said "Heaven, Hell or Canada".

							Fido

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:09:52 GMT


Francis Muir writes:
 
        There was also a dining-in-Hall protocol.  Gowns to be worn,
        as also socks, shirts, &c. In addition, several subjects
        of conversation were proscribed: politics, religion, a woman
        mentioned by name.  If an infraction occured . . . then the
        Guilty Person was proffered a Very large Mug of rather appalling
        beer (Dixie? We shall never know), and this he had to quoff
        in a single gulp.
 
He later adds:
 
        One evening I smuggled in my sweetheart, Rachel Myfanwy
        Lewis, a Scholar of Somerville College, and got away with it, but I
        cannot remember a like occasion during my tenure.
 
I'm shocked (shocked!) that Fido would kiss and tell.  I do hope that
he is now quoffing a Very large Mug of rather appalling beer in a
single gulp as his penance.
 
Yet, I do understand the experience.  A generation after Francis, there
were still universities which would not allow men to have women as
their guests at any time.  I went to such a place.  The punishment was
more severe than having to drink a Very large Mug of beer.  Those who
were caught were forced to give up their on-campus housing.  This
happened to several people in my dorm when I was a sophomore.
 
Simpson Hall was deemed "the radical dorm" because of our strong
opposition to the Viet Nam War, and the university's stand on
parietals (a word which I have never heard before nor after my
stay at Villanova).  The administration seemed unimpressed with
the fact that we were also the dorm with the highest cumulative
average.  It was an interesting place -- with about 28 students,
one Law School student who attempted to keep us in check, and one
rather scruffy dog, named Simpson (after the hall) who LOVED female
dogs, but who went crazy when he saw Kampus Kops <tm> and Augustinian
Priests.
 
 
 
Mark
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:00:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.105524.9562@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>I'm so glad you picked up on the allusion, Tom.  Is it just today, or
>are you always this quick?  What has it been now, four days?

	It was a grace period--I thought you might come to your senses.

	
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to S. V. Benet 
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 23:34:39 GMT

lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr) writes:

>In the same category is the sanitized image of the pirate that
>is so ubiquitous. I guess the appeal is something like the
>"Stockholm Syndrome" in that we identify with the powerful
>figure of the situation. The pirate isn't the one that gets hurt

     This person in the gaudy clothes
     Is worthy Captain Kid.
     They say he never buried gold.
     I think, perhaps, he did.

     They say it's all a story that
     His favorite little song
     Was "Make these lubbers walk the plank!"
     I think, perhaps, they're wrong.

     They say he never pirated
     Beneath the Skull-and-Bones,
     But merely travelled for his health
     And spoke in soothing tones.
     In fact you'll read in nearly all
     The newer history books
     That he was mild as cottage cheese.
     BUT I DON'T LIKE HIS LOOKS.

                   -- Rosemary and Stephen Vincent Benet

     (From a poster over my six-year-old's desk.  The illustration is a
very nice N. C. Wyeth-ish rendition of the Captain looking thoroughly 
untrustworthy, credited to one W. C. Ersland, of whom I have never heard
-- but 'ee done good.)

                                                 -- jf

     P.S.  Don't think Charlton Heston is much of an actor?  That means
you've never seen him as Long John Silver in the TNT version of _Treasure
Island_.  The whole thing is superbly well done (sensibly lifting great
chunks of dialogue straight from the book) and Heston *is* Silver, as close
as I ever hope to see.  So what if it took him fifty years to find a role
he could play?  He *found* one, by Ghod.  CH's Long John is as witty and
charming as previous Silvers but is also a mesmerizing leader, a brute
and a raging psychopath who'll slit your belly for any slightest reason
or no reason at all -- and make you *like* him even as you shake hands
with your small intestine....



| James P. H. Fuller, research director        Soil/Water Biology Laboratory |
|                                              Institute of Ecology          |
| work: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu               University of Georgia         |
| home: (crom2 rejoins the bitstream one day)  Athens, GA U.S.A.             |


,
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Subject: Re: maddona's new book?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:25:21 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1992Nov10.204931.686@ab.wvnet.edu> onda@ab.wvnet.edu writes:
>
>	can someone send me info on maddona's new book
>	i am very *curious* as to what it is about?
>	thanks in advance.
>	jason
That's not "new" book, but "nude" book. Does that answer your question.

-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
"I don't speak for CompuTrac, and CompuTrac doesn't speak for me!"
From: microsoc@black.ox.ac.uk (Microsoc)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:17:27 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: microsoc@black

In article <1dlvh6INNsts@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Marc Read of Balliol College, writes:
>
>	Francis Muir writes:
>
>		[lots deleted] 
>
>		...unexpected and spectacular sight of herself [Heather
>		Henderson] quaffing a mug of beer of quite unusual size. 
>		Certainly larger than the typical Baliol Sconcing Mug and 
>		somewhere between a Quart and a half-Gallon in capacity. 
>
>		[lots more deleted]
>
>	Sorry if this is question that should be for alt.usage.english 
>	(and therefore beyond the contempt of the r.a.b.id), but what's 
>	a Baliol Sconcing Mug?
>
>Aside. Methinks the youth would catch me out. Mutter, mutter.

Not at all! Merely a question born of idle curiosity; sconcing doesn't
even get a mention in the official College History...
>
>First, Baliol is the antiente spellynge of Balliol, now only found in
>ancients like myself and the battle-cry of the second most senior college
>at Oxford, Floreat Baliolo! Dining in Hall at Baliol used to be a formal
>and obligatory affair. First-year undergraduates had to eat so many meals
>in Hall a week, a term, whatever. There was also a dining-in-Hall protocol.
>Gowns to be worn, as also socks, shirts, &c. 

	[fascinating description of sconcing deleted with regret]
>
>In my time Baliol was a monastery. Women were grudgingly allowed in college
>as guests until 6pm, and after that, NOT! Hall was a frighteningly
>masculine place. One evening I smuggled in my sweetheart, Rachel Myfanwy
>Lewis, a Scholar of Somerville College, and got away with it, but I
>cannot remember a like occasion during my tenure.
>
Those of the r.a.b.ble given to apocalyptic wails of "barbarians at the
gates" may care to know that nowadays Balliol is a mixed College, with
no guest rules whatsoever (camp beds are available from the Porters'
Lodge). And this very term (Michaelmas '92) saw the (re)introduction of
semi-formal hall (no gowns) after many years... O Tempora! O Mores!

On the other hand, the Bursar in his infinite wisdom _does_ allow students
to have data-links free of charge in their rooms...
	Yours in Effortless Superiority,


	Marc Read
	Domus Exhibitioner
	Coll. de Ball. in Univ. Oxon.
>						Franciscus Muir
>						Domus Exhibitioner
>						Coll de Ball.
From: loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: "Two Girls, Fat and Thin"
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:59:27 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
NNTP-Posting-Host: functor.systemsz.cs.yale.edu

Apropos of the latest round of the Rand flamefest....  Have any other
netters read Mary Gaitskill's "Two Girls, Fat and Thin"?  What did you
think of it?

Personally, I found the Rand parody ("Anna Granite") part of it clever
and entertaining, but the rest of it -- yuck!  In the end, it turns
out that Dorothy the obese Randroid isn't nearly as "sick" as the
apparently normal Justine, but it still paints a very strong,
unpleasant picture of life in general that I found disturbing and
depressing.

-Sandra
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Maddona's new book
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:14:34 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Stephanie Moskal Fysh writes:

	Mark Taranto writes:

		As with everything else that she does, and in spite 
		of the books's title, Madonna's new book is about 
		one thing: Madonna

	It does have a nice cover, though.

That sounds like an honest, if somewhat brief, crit. I must confess to some
irritation at the several readers who have posted on this new book and give 
no indication of having actually opened it. For myself I would like to hear 
an informed description and commentary on the book. There's been too much
authorial intent crap and too many sermonettes from our resident Roundheads.

							Fido

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: carl@class.gsfc.nasa.gov (Carl F. Hostetter)
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: NASA/GSFC
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:02:02 GMT

In article <1denajINN6sn@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu
(Francis Muir) wrote:
> 
> 	For Roach it was something quite other. Cymric overtones.
> 	Scaling the Three Mounds of the Horizontal Heather inside
> 	one hour presented an interesting challenge that would have
> 	been difficult to ignore, perhaps good enough for inclusion
> 	in a modern-day *Trioedd Ynys Prydein* or *Triads of the
> 	Isles of Britain* (tr. Rachel Bromwich, 1961, Caerdydd).
> 	Perhaps, even, to be laid opposite Peacock's great Trio
> 	of Immortal Drunkards, Ceraint of Essyllwg, Gwrtheyrn 
> 	Gwrthenau and Seithenyn ap Seithyn Saidi.

But Arthur himself was a greater drunkard than these.

|===================================================================|
|         Carl F. Hostetter      carl@class.gsfc.nasa.gov           |
|                                                                   |
|                    Ars longa, vita brevis.                        |
|          The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.            |
|  'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take     |
|  such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'  |
|===================================================================|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Sheila Herndon)
Subject: thinking about how you want to say (Re: Cormac McCarthy)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:06:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.161912.4079@msdhsv.ingr.com> james@brock.b17b.ingr.com (James Brock) writes:

>Hey, I was thinking the other day about people like you, how
>you think so hard about HOW you want to say what you want to say, and then
>when you say it or write it it sounds as if it came out of a pompous robot.
>Pity.

Believe me it is very hard to think about HOW you want to say something.
I admire anyone who can. Usually the concentration is too much of an 
effort so I don't try to think and talk anyway. What results is a dissaster.

If I walk on the tips of my feet enough perhaps the
discipline it takes to remember not to walk on my heels will give me
practice to be able to do all of my thinking inside of my head instead
of on paper. 

I thought Timbuk 3 was self-righteous. I like their music, oftentimes
they are a very tiny tiny bit self-rightious in an Austinesque type of
way. I still like them. I like to walk around singing -and we'll all
go down to disney land [after we die] - and so on. Mudflap girl is
especially fun. Now that I've thought about it, Timbuk 3 and Austin folks
are not self-righteous. I'm going to find a different word.

You sound very angry for no good reason whatsoever.

please go to a grocery store and bit into the rind of an orange.
It's very funny.

I am not saying this to imply that I want you to have a bad taste in
your mouth. I am saying this to hope that when you bite into the orange
rind the flavor will be so interesting that you will pause and think
about it for a while and how different it is from peanut butter, and
how well it clears your palate after you have eaten peanut butter.

And I am self-righteous too, because It angers me to see you treat someone
like you did in your post. My apologies.


I guess what I am saying is that there are a lot of other things to think
about infinitely more interesting than this. I'm write. thus I will
stop thinking about this and lea
				ve
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: The Te of Piglet
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:14:11 GMT

In article <1dkh1lINNfkv@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>Has anyone bought and read _The_Te_of_Piglet_ yet?  I need
>a fair number of inobservant, muddled, prejudiced,
>inarticulate opinions before I can make up my mind to blow
>a lunchtime's wages on a used copy of it.  And should I
>get _The_Tao_of_Pooh_, first, or is they both just more new-age
>crap like _The_Dancing_Wu_Li_Masters_ and _Godel_Escher_Bach_?

Well, I doubt my opinions can match your requirements, but I'll submit
them anyway.  The Tao of Pooh is possibly the most enjoyable book
about religion, bears, and Capital Letters that you'll ever read - buy
it new with this evening's supper money.

The Te of Piglet should be borrowed from a friend.  It is much less
Taoist and much more raving left-wing nut, including [admittedly
valid] complaints about the Bush administration's policies in several
awkward sections.  It also has relatively little to do with Piglet,
unlike the Tao of Pooh, wherein we find out that Pooh is much more
than an adorable toddler.  In short, while it had a number of
interesting spots it wasn't nearly as good as I had hoped.

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Help find me some criticism
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:53:41 GMT


l98cc@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Justin Bahk) writes:
 
> I have to write an essay for my history class regarding "Odd Women"
> by Gissing.  Where can I find some literary criticism(with heavy slant to
> social history) on this book?
> Even more generally, how can I find any literary criticism on any book or
> periodical?  In other word, what's THE index on the literary criticism?
 
> PS:No, I am not trying to cheat.  I read the boring book.  It's just that
>    the book is very hard to relate to, and I don't know what to write about.
>    If anyone can give me a hint or two, I will deeply appreciate that too.
 
 
While I know quite a bit about odd women, I must admit that I know nothing
about "Odd Women."
 
As to where you can get information, I suggest you talk to the
people in CUNY's library.  They are there to help you with exactly
this type of thing.
 
Reading literary criticism in preparation for a term paper can
hardly be thought of as cheating (unless you plan to plagiarize),
and is, in fact, often encouraged.  Reading criticism might help you
to support an opinion, can help you to decide what your opinion is,
and can be used as a good jumping off point for your argument, even
if you disagree with the criticism.
 
Mark
 
PS  Good luck with the paper.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: revillot@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Judy Tolliver)
Subject: Re: Bookstores (used or not) in Minneapolis
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: Dept. of MSE at Illinois-Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:32:55 GMT

You MUST go to the Hungry Mind bookstore!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: a posting about BOOKS (LONG but meaty)
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:32:27 GMT

In article <BxA5Cu.7MF@wsrcc.com> alison@wsrcc.com (Alison Chaiken) writes:
>Here are some books I recommend:
>
>1) _Sometimes a Great Notion_ by Ken Kesey.  This is a Great American
>Novel.  It is also a replaying of the Cain/Abel East Of Eden theme,
>but SaGN is a much better-written than East of Eden.  The Stamper
>family characters will stay with the reader a long time after the
>reading is done.  Besides the characterizations, there is a lot of
>humor and suspense here.  Why oh why hasn't this book been made into a
>movie?
>

SAGN has been made into a movie.  I believe it was released in the
middle '70s.  I've never seen it, but I think the critical acclaim
was tepid.


Regards,

Ralph Marrone
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:20027 sci.philosophy.meta:2557
From: bg13+@andrew.cmu.edu (Benedicta Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein's PI
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:12:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Ef0mgdS00iUzM99owN
	<1992Nov11.201518.17359@husc3.harvard.edu>
Organization: Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

The pompous-sounding Mr.Zeleny's "joke" aside: A nice reasonable
hardback version of the Philosophical Investigations with English facing
German text is available from Great Expectations - (708) 864 3881. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher)
Subject: Re: Welfare myths (was: BOOK: Hollywood vs. America by Michael Medved)
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 21:59:18 GMT

In article <13063@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.213856.9108@cs.ucla.edu>, reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher) writes:
>> In article <13042@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> >In article <1992Oct30.180050.22721@cs.ucla.edu>, reiher@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Peter Reiher) writes:
>> >> In article <13002@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>I was complaining about the problems of single mothers trying to
>raise kids by themselves.  You asked why anyone should care.  (A
>very liberal attitude -- why should anyone care about people getting
>screwed over?)  

Since you are being very careful about what you said, it's only fair to
be equally careful about what I said.  Could you please quote for me
the place where I said "why should anyone care" about the problems of
single mothers raising kids by themselves?   I don't deny those problems,
and I'm in favor of doing something about them - cracking down on
irresponsible fathers is one way, welfare is another.  

The rest of this article was mostly quoting my words and restating Mr.
Cramer's opinions.  If anyone else is seriously interested in hearing the 
facts I have at hand or my opinions on the subject for the third time, 
contact me through email.

-- 
		Peter Reiher
		reiher@wells.cs.ucla.edu
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: the stratigraphy of midden heaps
Date: 6 Nov 1992 15:23:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


 Now this is good. But someone can always put a "ringer" in the
thread to add to the confusion for purposes of tangency..
-- 
Ted....