HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (St. Elmo's Fire)
Subject: Re: Legion of Super-Heroes...
Organization: Man in Motion
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:23:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

khale@camilla.Eng.Sun.COM (Abhijit Khale) writes:
> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Nearer My Elmo to Thee) writes:
>>	Such as blowing away Blok with precious little buildup, ceremony, or
>>followup.  Used to be whacking a Legionnaire was a big production.  Now it's
>>commonplace.  But that's a cheap shot.
> 
> Excluding batch SW 6 for the moment (and there are good reasons why it
> should be excluded) there was one Legionnaire death in issue # 3 and one
> probable death in issue # 36. How does this make legion death commonplace ? 

	There's a preponderance of -everyone- dying.  Death has become 
commonplace, and thereby loses its sting.

> And you certainly cant say that there was no buildup to Dirk's apparent death.

	Oh, it was interminable, all right :-)  Yet I saw no point to the
buildup.

> I actually think the death of Blok
> was definitely important for several reasons : to build up suspense when
> Jo Nah vanished later as to whether he had been killed or not. 

	You had suspense?  I looked at it and went Probability Zero.  For one,
he had been established as one of the writers' pet characters, for two, we
already know that his invulnerability doesn't work like Daxamite
invulnerability (not realizing the retcon fever to come).  I also had no 
suspense about Cham, either.

> And it was
> Levitz who did the first major retcon in LSH history (the elimination of the
> Adult Legion). 

	There's a difference between changing the past and changing the future,
IMHO.

> Levitz (and Giffen !!) were definitely much better at plot management and plot
> closure, and using most characters (not all, does the word Tyroc ring a bell).

	Well, while Levitz didn't use Tyroc in his first run, he didn't get
used in the second run, because he had been written out pretty thoroughly, in
between.  On top of that, he was a character with an extremely poorly defined
power.

> However, theres no doubt that he was running out of steam towards the end. And
> my one major complaint with him is the one thing he didnt do : he couldnt 
> bring himself to cross the rubicon and make the legion grow up. T & M and
> Giffen did that and more power to them for that !!

	Define grow up.  Under Levitz, Garth and Imra married and had children. 
Shady and Mon married.  Gim and Yera married.  Levitz got the Legionnaires at
roughly the collective emotional age of seventeen, and he left them at roughly
the collective emotional age of twenty-four or so.
-- 
"Those who will give up essential liberty to secure a little temporary safety  
deserve neither liberty nor safety."--Benjamin Franklin                        
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: DC: Possible goof in JSA #5
Keywords: JSA, Sandman
Organization: Bradley University
Date:  5 Nov 92 22:38:41 GMT

Did anyone besides me notice Flash I's reference to "Dian" on page 19
during the Sandman-goes-the-hospital flashback?  If he's referring to Dian
Belmont, Sandman's old girlfriend (and Sandy's niece), there's a small
problem with Jay and Joan checking up on her:
	DIAN BELMONT HAS BEEN DEAD SINCE EARLY 1941!!!
(as shown in _All-Star Squadron_ #18 or so)

Sorry; just had to get that off my chest.  I don't mind Strazewski playing
games with the Ultra-Humanite's history (which hadn't yet been completely
clarified in the post-Crisis universe), but if he intends to resurrect old
girlfriends, I see problems ahead. . . .

What this reference means (if in fact "Dian" *is* supposed to be Ms.
Belmont) is that Strazewski needs to brush up on what Roy Thomas did with
the JSA and related stuff. . . .

--

 _______________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/              "All this *and* King Kong--terrific!"                     \/
                           --Wildcat, _Justice Society of America_ #5

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Legion of Super-Heroes... (VERY LONG)
Organization: Bradley University
Date:  6 Nov 92 01:25:18 GMT

In <1992Nov5.170038.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (St. Elmo's Fire) writes:

>vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:
>> jordan@castor (USENET's Chuck) writes:
>>>From Salu's logs we see that she seems extremely shallow at
>>>first, but even the "old" Legion character begins to develop depth and
>>>sincerity.
>> 
>> From Salu's logs, we see she's probably about FIFTEEN YEARS OLD!!!!  OF
>> COURSE her character's bound to change!!!!  Frankly, I think it's EXTREMELY
>> stupid to talk about "shallow characters" when you completely ignore the
>> fact that THE ORIGINAL LEGION CONSTITUTION FORBADE ANYONE UNDER 18 YEARS
>> OLD TO JOIN!!!!  You want shallow characters and dull stories?  Put a bunch
>> of fifteen-through-seventeen-year-olds in a story, especially a story in
>> the 1960s, and see how they act.

>	Whoa!  Enough with the exclamation points!  Deep breath....
>	Uh, I'm sure you meant to say that the original Legion constitution
>forbade anyone OVER 18 years of age to join, right?

I JUST EXPLAINED THAT A FEW POSTS AGO!!!  HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO REPEAT
MYSELF ON THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!

Deep breath....

I already said I goofed.  Fact of the matter is, the LSH constitution
forbade anyone *18 and over* to join.

--

 _______________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/              "All this *and* King Kong--terrific!"                     \/
                           --Wildcat, _Justice Society of America_ #5

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cliffr@pyuxf.uucp (25347-roberts)
Subject: Sandman
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 12:47:57 GMT

I know it sounds like alot, but could someone who is a regular reader
of sandman please give the new readers a brief synopsis of the character
and what story line the book is trying to tell.  Some origins would help.

Thanks,
Cliff
From: morpheus@cco.caltech.edu (Kynn Bartlett)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: LSH: Evacuating the Earth
Date: 7 Nov 1992 13:11:33 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

Spoilers for LSH #38:

In article <1992Nov6.213548.5528@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>There are three possibilities, and each is equally defensible: ...the
>population can be evacuated with capacity to spare (the L.E.G.I.O.N.
>solution -- and why didn't they ask the GLs to help?), or ...

Obviously, because the Earth blew up on a Monday.

			--Kynn

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE.....
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:53:04 GMT


acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>Possible Blasphemy Ahead. Fundamentalists Press Kill Now!

>Coming Soon From Marvel:
>>Life Of Christ: Christmas Story (1 of 3) I'm serious.
>>It's even written by Louise Simonson.
 
>Oh, I can see it now.
 
>December 25, 0 AD. The Coming of a Hero!
>Next Issue: Christ vs. the MoneyChangers. Guest Starring Ghost Rider.
>The Adventures of the Twelve Mutants ...err... Disciples.
>The Great Question: Who is Really Christ's Father?
 
>And, of course, he's a Marvel character:
>HE DIES AND COMES BACK!
 
Sounds like a blatant ripoff to me!  They just copied Adam Warlock's story.
 
In the temple, talking with the elders: "With great power comes great
responsibility!"
 
Christ with muscles 3 feet in diameter and a little tiny head... or as
drawn by Liefield, with really badass guns, and 12 team members who
are badly-disguised copies of X-Force members.
 
And there has to be a Spiderman crossover.  Every series gets a
Spiderman crossover, if only to spoof the Spiderman crossover
(Slapstick). 
 
Reminds me of a comic I heard... "What would it be like if Christ came
back today?   Imagine the ads... 'The King of Beers presents the King
of Kings in a 9 month 50 country worldwide tour!  If you open a can of
Bud and find the Blood of Christ, we'll send you and a friend on an
all-expense paid trip for front row seats at the Rapture!'  But you
know people would be walking out afterwards, saying, 'Yeah, he was
good.... but I liked him better when he was with the original 12
Apostles.'" 
-- 
May you be known for your hospitality to God's creatures: lice, rats,
bedbugs, fleas, worms, maggots.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Sandman #1
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:43:31 GMT

I started re-reading my old copies of Sandman yesterday (I've been
buying it since issue #1), and I noticed something.  In either issue
#1 or #2, when talking about dream's capture, the narration says
something to the effect that Dream was under terrible pressures, and
had been pushed beyond the limits of even his endurance by other forces,
which is why Hodges summoning spell was able to capture him.  

Looking through the rest of the series, I have no idea what these
forces and pressures might have been.  Anyone out there have any
ideas?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: LSH: Evacuating the Earth
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:33:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.052449.10051@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:
>>Or at least have the Daxamites move the "new earth" space thing, rather
>>than shoving it into the phantom zone (oops, I mean ?@#$@? buffer zone).
>Er, that thing was so crumbly that if it was moved by pushing at one or two
>points they would have lost more than one city in the process.  Inertia is a
>harsh mistress.

Comic book move-large-objects-by-holding-a-small-area physics allows it.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins)
Subject:  Sandman - List of Prodigal Mentions
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:49:03 GMT

Issue 10, page 5 - Despair says to Desire "prodigal has returned?"
Issue 16, last page - at conclusion of Doll's House Desire says 
that if s/he was a doll then s/he'd abandon his/her realm like the
brother did.
Issue 21, Season of Mists 0 - Prodigal gets mentioned while calling
the family gathering and during the discussion.
Issue 26, page 19 and last page, Lady Bast says she knows where the
brother can be found.
Issue 27, Lady Bast admits she doesn't know exact current location.
Another mention on page 22 as Dream says he respects his brother's
privacy.
Issue 31, page 3, Despair taunts Dream with 'no wonder our brother
left' and on page 8 Dream tells Death that.
the Special issue: Orpheus introduces the 7th as Olethros on page 5.
O shows up in pages 17 through 20 and mentioned on page 23 by Death.
Issue 38: letters page says that Neil refers to the 7th as
Destruction.
And Destruction shows up in issues 41 and onward.

Interesting point: in issue 41 Despair says that Destruction left in
Destiny's Hall 270 years ago.  In issue 42 Dream says 300 years ago.

And just for fun I'll mention that one Sandman character showed up on
Earth 250 years ago: Mad Hetty.  Issue 3, pages 4 and 5.  And she's
aware of the presence of Dream - how does she know the comings and
goings of an Endless?  Eh?  ;-)

later, david
--
David Hawkins    dhawk@netcom.com
It is better to encounter one's existence in disgust than never
to encounter it at all.  - William Barrett
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jed@matilda.vut.edu.au (Jed Bowtell)
Subject: Re: Rob Liefield: the Early Years
Organization: Victoria University of Technology
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:41:16 GMT

ast2r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew Symons Troth) writes:

>I can't guarantee what his first work was, but I do know that Liefeld
>drew the Hawk & Dove mini from 1988 and the secret origin of Nightshade
>in Secret Origins #28 (with *awful* Bob Lewis inks). I remember actually
>*liking* his artwork back then....*sigh*.

I wouldn't say I'm a fan Of Liefeld. I dislike most of his
work, especially his close ups of faces. He does have his
moments. He occasionally comes up with a really nice panel.
A question. On the cover of NM #99 he has Liefeld AfterByrne.
Where is the original cover from?

Jed

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: 2013bp@gmuvax2.gmu.edu ( )
Subject: Re: LSH: The Return of Frothing-at-the-Mouth Lad
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:17:36 GMT

In article <lf83deINNq4m@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> khale@camilla.Eng.Sun.COM (Abhijit Khale) writes:
>the blob she is now. Mind you, one wonders why 30th century technology does
>not have the ability to get rid of excess poundage. 
>
>Abhijit

20th century technology has the ability to get rid of excess poundage,
it's called liposuction, but there are still fat people.

Bill
.
From: wntrmute@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (August Paul Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: X-Men: The MovieOkay, since there's been plenty of talk about the
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:27:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: jhunix.1992Nov12.162707.4041
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <14644.2b022e23@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> balbes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.231940.3879@twg.com>, rwalls@twg.com (Roger Walls) writes:
>>>Hey, here's a twisted idea:
>>>
>>>Danny DeVito as Wolverine.
>Bob Hoskins IS Wolverine.
He's also Mario...

>think about it.
No thanks, I'd rather not.

August Paul Yang needs money
wntrmute@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
From: hachiman@stein.u.washington.edu (matt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: I, Lusiphur
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:47:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.044700.8337
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <96844@netnews.upenn.edu> smith@bohr.physics.upenn.edu (doug smith) writes:
>Has anyone else read this title. I believe that it was writen, drawn, lettered,
>self published by Drew Hayes, under Mulehide Graphics.  There were three issues
>and mostly was a take-off of Cerebus, with an elf instead of an aardvark.  I
>thought the artwork had some pontential, along with the story writing.  But
>I have not seen an issue since number three.  Does anyone know where the book
>went to, or what happened to the artist?

I just got issues five and six this weekend.  Apparently Diamond (one of the 
two main comic distributors) forgot to list issue five, so every comic shop
serviced by them didn't order it, 'cuz they never saw it offered.  So if you 
haven't seen an issue since four, that's why.  As for why you missed four, it
was probably sold out at your local comic shop.

For those who haven't read _I, Lusiphur_, it's a B&W magazine sized comic
written, drawn, and published by Drew Hayes.  The art is Sims with a sprinkling
of manga influence.  The story is more like Robert Aspirin (Thives' World) with
a healthy dose of Moorcock-like humor.  If you're into fantasy (low), obscure
comics with low print runs (850 copies an issue, unless Diamond 'forgets' to
solicit it, in which case there'd be only 400), intricate B&W art, or something
a little more well thought out than most of the gene-whacked spandex crowd, try
an issue of _I, Lusiphur_.  If nothing else, you'll be investing $2.50 in 
keeping an independent publisher afloat.  The Diamond debacle nearly did him in,
financially.

Oh, and for the 'investor' types: plug a print run of 850 into your supply and
demand equation and see what comes out... besides, even if it doesn't quadruple
in value over the next half hour, you can always *read* the durned thing :)


 _______________________________
|  Matthew B. Downer       	|
|  hachiman@u.washington.edu	|
|  				|
|  Ore no denwa bango wa 911 da.|
|_______________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Sandman
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 13:00:09 EST

v125qj86@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Jeffrey B Rogers) writes:

> and Desire are said to be twins); and Delerium, a female (Delerium was once
> Delight---the circumstances behind this change have not yet been revealed). 

Do you think we will learn what happened?  Has anyone any idea what might 
have caused the change?  Is there a possibility it has to do with 
something the missing brother did?  (Note that you got me avoiding his 
name, too.)  Do we know *when* this change occurred?
> 	As I said above, the current storyline deals with the missing brother.
> Delerium makes up her mind to find him. She gets Dream to go looking with her
> even though he really doesn't want to find him--he just wants to get over his
> lastest breakup. Along the way, diffrent members of the family remember the 

Is it possible that the story will end up not to be about Dreams and 
Delirium's search for their missing brother, but about Dream and his lost 
mysterious love?  That in searching for one thing, he will find another, 
whether it is the lover or a replacement for the lover or somehow coming 
to terms with whatever happened?

> 	And for those who know: please, no flames for wrong stuff- this is all
> off the top of my head.
> 							J.B.Rogers
> 							SUNY@Buffalo


Wow!  I'm impressed.  You covered all the important points and remembered 
things I didn't and you didn't even look things up.  Well done.

I'd have been more likely to describe it in linear fashion - that there's 
a story about a convention of serial killers, a story about creativity 
and the abduction of a Muse, that there's a story about an immortal man, 
and one about Element Girl - and so.  You did better.

Dream on,
Elizabeth

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jholstei@scott.skidmore.edu (jeremy holstein)
Subject: Re: Thanks
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:26:55 GMT

cliffr@pyuxf.uucp (25347-roberts) writes:
> Thanks Jim Cowling for posting the new books out this week before
> I make to my local shop.  Its a BIG help. 

I second that.  The effort he puts into these lists (no matter WHEN
they come out) is much appreciated.
-- 
This is my sig file.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: LSH: Evacuating the Earth
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 05:15:59 GMT

In article <1dhpu6INNon4@pollux.usc.edu>, akhale@pollux.usc.edu (Abhijit Khale) writes:

|> Anyway, this is a very confusing topic and DC has given out lots of
|> contradictory information: 
|> 
|> 1) Superman fought a bunch of Daxamites in Invasion. Battle inconclusive
|> as the Daxamites were weakened by the presence of lead. 
|> 2) Superman has fought Lar on a number of occasions  : battle inconclusive
|> or interrupted, but they seemed roughly equal in power. 
|> 3) Superman vs. Dev-em : Dev seemed to be winning, but the fight didnt last
|> too long. 
|> 4) Superman vs. Lar in Eclipso saga. Conclusive victory for Superman. However,
|> Lar is solar powered and he had been out of the sun for weeks when under
|> Eclipso's thrall, so he could have been much weakened. 
|> 5) Who's who says that Daxamites are slightly more powerful than Superman.
|> 6) Lar has taken on other characters like Starman, Lobo, Lady Q and has not
|> seemed much more powerful than them. 
|> 
|> All of this would seem to indicate that Daxamites are slightly more powerful
|> than Kryptonians, but not much more. However, most appearances of or comments
|> about Lar or Laurel in the 30th century would put them at close to pre-Crisis
|> levels (which would make them millions of times more powerful than Superman).
|> Doubtless, we could come up with some cute psuedo-scientific explanation 
|> as to why 30th century Daxamites are far more powerful than 20th century
|> Daxamites, but I'm not even going to try.

You have contradicted yourself.  You note that Superman fought Dev-em and
they were roughly at equal power levels.  Recall that Superman fought
Dev-em in the 30th century!  Other than the two powers I mentioned:
living without air and interstellar flight, the Daxamites haven't been
shown to be much more powerful in LSH than Superman.  We haven't seen
Lar Gand or Laurel Gand drag around any stars in post-crisis LSH.

However, let's be honest.  DC is remarkably inconsistent with their power
levels.  They have taken care to not be too specific in the Who's Who,
unlike Marvel, so that a individual writers have a lot of leeway.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: carlinra@vuse2.vanderbilt.edu (Robert A. Carlin)
Subject: Re: Where B They Now?
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc
Organization: Smart Structures Lab, Vanderbilt Univ.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:03:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.222755.7524@njitgw.njit.edu>, bxp1628@hertz.njit.edu
(Brian Perler) wrote:
> 
> In article <4NOV199215080823@pavo.concordia.ca> f_alfan@pavo.concordia.ca (ALFANI, FABRIZIO) writes:
> >What happened to/where is/what did (s)he turn into/how many times did (s)he
> >come back from the dead/etc...
> >Scourge (gun-toting mummified bozo in white, gunned down a slew of people)
> 
> Hasn't been dealt with since it was revealed the Scourges were agents
> of the Red Skull.
> The upcoming USAgent limited series is supposed to deal with Scourge.

What??  Where (and when) did this revelation take place?  Since this really
isn't an important factoid, please reply by E-mail.  

Thanks!

Rob

Rob Carlin                      |  "Nothing's so cold
carlinra@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu  |   As closing the heart when all we need
carlinra@macpost.vanderbilt.edu |   Is to free the soul
                                |   But we wouldn't be that brave, I know."
                                |     - "All I Want," by Toad the Wet
Sprocket
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: antunes@astro.psu.edu (Sandy Antunes)
Subject: Re: LSH: Evacuating the Earth (why no GL?)
Organization: Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics, Penn State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:36:03 GMT


> In article <1992Nov6.213548.5528@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) wri
> >population can be evacuated with capacity to spare (the L.E.G.I.O.N.
> >solution -- and why didn't they ask the GLs to help?), or a large

Well, maybe it was a Monday when the Earth was destroyed- aren't
Green Lanterns prohibited from Earth on Mondays?  I seem to recall
there was a famous court case about this...

sandy
alex@astro.isas.ac.jp
From: DCC117@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: I, Lusiphur
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:47:48 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


 Does anyone know if Drew Hayes has an email address?

 Just wondering.
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