HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chuong@ecf.toronto.edu (CHUONG HAN HSING)
Subject: Imperial Mud Vol. 1 Doc. 1
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 03:03:19 GMT

Howdy all,

    There is a good mud on the internet right now called
    Imperial.  It is a diku mud and boasts the following features:

    - about 40 areas.
    - mage, warrior, theif, cleric, paladin, evil-paladin,
      commando, bard and ninja classes. (There was once the
      Avatar class, but that has since been phased out.)
    - Rent hovers around 50-100K for most high level players
      carrying only the bare essentials.
    - There are 4 rest rooms designed for faster recover if
      membership is paid.  500K for membership.
    - Insurance companies sell what is basically auto-recall.
      The price depends on your level.
    - 30 levels. That is, level 31 is immort.
    - There are 'auction' and 'gossip' channels for the selling
      of goods and for conversation respectively.
    - Shouting is heard by players in the same area as your
      character, yelling is heard by all.
    - Approximately 6 spell lists...one list for each of mage,
      cleric, paladin, anti-paladin, commando and bard classes.
    - Although based in Finland, lag is most often negligible for
      North American players.
    - Bards have spells as well as songs.  Songs are basically
      room-effect spells.
    - Tons of equipment and items, but that comes with the areas.
    - Standard areas such as Drow, Thalos and Chessboard, but many
      new ones as well.

      Take a look and have fun.
      Galactus the Destroyer of Worlds

      telnet supergirl.cs.hut.fi 6969
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:1828 rec.games.mud.tiny:1247
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny,alt.fan.ken-arromdee
Subject: Decapitating Jiro (Was: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights))
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:09:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <1993Jan7.191933.14075@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <C0H5pv.3tv@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>>Expect this analogy to soon be countered with the argument:  "but
>>everything is provided free for you on my mud, by the sweat of my
>>unsung hero's brow.  If it weren't for me, your little mud on which
>>you proclaim your rights wouldn't even exist.  THEREFORE, if you don't
>>like it, go somewhere else, but DON'T COMPLAIN."
>
>"My complaints are provided free for you by the sweat of my brow...."
>
>The general reply to "we have a right to do anything we want" is "yes, and I
>have a right to complain about anything I want".  "Don't complain" cannot
>apply.

[other babbling by jiro deleted]

Update on the Baltimore Expedition to Saw Ken Arromdee's Head Off With A
Plastic Picnic Knife:

Jim "auzzie" Miller and I will be going to Baltimore in mid-February to
forcibly separate Jiro's head from his body with only a flimsy little
plastic picnic knife as a tool.  If you'd like to be present at the Great
Decapitating, send mail to me or auzzie (jgm@ais.org) ASAP so we can make
plans to include you.

          (__)                                           
          (oo)                                                     Joel Furr
   /-------\/                                     jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu
  / |     ||                                            Blacksburg, Virginia
 *  ||----||                                                             USA
    ^^    ^^
From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Date: 7 Jan 1993 03:55:35 GMT
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: cajal.uoregon.edu
Keywords: n

In article <103897@netnews.upenn.edu>, lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong) writes:

>Gods only, and I'd recommend
>splitting the conference by genre. The "rules" for wizarding on a Tiny
>and on a combat-oriented MUD are quite different.

Excellent suggestion.

>1. The "rights" that can be given to players differ widely from world to
>   world. This doesn't just reflect the personal opinions of the admins;
>   frequently outside pressures intrude into an administrative style.
[...]

Yes, of course this is true. Each mud has its own unique situation.
I thought about this a lot, which is why I suggested allowing an explanatory
note to be attached from gods who did not wish to sign, so it wouldn't
necessarily reflect badly. I had not thought of splitting muds up by
type, though (idiot me :)... this would go far to help.

>3. I do not like the idea of a "bill of rights". I can easily picture
>   players trying to worm out of wrongdoing by citing chapter and verse
>   of such an august document.
[...]
>   I do believe
>   that a set of *guidelines* is useful.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. The "Bill of Rights"
is meant to be nothing more than a set of guidelines. I did not intend
for it to be "law" in any way, but merely a collaborative statement
from a number of gods as to what they believe, and attempt to
ensure, that the players can expect in terms of respect and human
dignity.

>3. I believe that most MUD problems can be solved by applying the same
>   basic rules of courtesy and decency which one follows in RL.

Yes, of course. This is true. It is also relatively rare for this
to happen. It is all to easy to forget.

>4. I have a tendency to dismiss player complaints about "rights" as
>   paranoia.

Well, it depends entirely on *what* "rights" we're talking about. Many
players feel they have rights that in fact they don't. No player, for
instance has a right to be on a particular mud. No player has a
right to build, or to build anything they please, etc, etc. These
are priveleges. IMHO, the is, however, a core set of rights which
should be inviolable. It is precisely issues such as this that I
would hope would be discussed...

>I view this conference as an interesting idea, but I question its
>usefulness.

Yes, who knows? I know that it seems worth a try, though, and it 
certainly can't hurt. If nothing else, the exchange of ideas will
probably be of enormous benefit.


	-Zalcor
-- 
John Martin                                        johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu
Institute of Neuroscience,   University of Oregon,    Eugene, OR,    97402
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: cooljohn@leland.Stanford.EDU ( Magdaleno)
Subject: Programming MUD, objects...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 00:44:47 GMT

Quick question for Wizards out there:

Is it easier to go inside the MUD code and code in attributes such as strenght,
dexterity, wisdom, etc... or use @set command. For example: if I wanted to
distinguish different weapons from each other, I guess I could:

@create short sword
@set short sword = damage:10
@set short sword = tohit:8
@set short sword = weight:100

@create long sword
@set long sword = damage:12
 ..etc..

Right now I'm using a TinyMAGE system. I've been changing the C code quite
a bit, but after looking at db.c (the database handler code) I'd prefer
to not hard code... but if I must, I must... must I????

John Magdaleno
cooljohn@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang)
Subject: Re: Admin Conference
Keywords: huh?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:12:40 GMT

In <1iravlINNcvo@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:

>yes! yes! yes! let's slam oregon some more! who cares if this is
>rec.games.mud.misc, eh?

Don't forget the Nuclear Free Zone of Eugene.

	Mud Version: Admin-Free Zone

Don't forget the time when PETA broke into the biol labs and set all the
mices free.

	Mud Version: Fanatical mud advocates breaking into the hundreds of
	muds in the world and set the players free.

Don't forget the Saturday Market in Eugene (A real 70's hangout place ;)

	Mud Version: Sounds like the Conference. :)

-michael
 An ex-Duck of University of Oregon
 Vincent's Hollow
 Looking Glass

-- 
Michael M. Huang    | Don't believe what your eyes are  telling  you.  All they
Carver & Vis Labs   | show is limitation.   Look with your understanding,  find
Iowa State Univ.    | out what you already know, and you'll see the way to fly.
michael@iastate.edu |- Jonathan Livingston Seagull -- #include  <disclaimer> --
From: john@stat.tamu.edu (John S. Price)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: worf.tamu.edu 2000 is open to non-texans?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 02:57:33 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: stat.tamu.edu

In article <1993Jan4.201832.14345@athena.mit.edu> luthien@athena.mit.edu (Luthien) writes:
>[lots of unrelated things deleted]

Oh please.  If someone posts something, putting words in my mouth, and
"bad mouthing" me and/or the administration of DR, it definately warents
a reply.  And something as silly as asking the world to 'unlock' a password,
which, obviously, is an administrative duty, needed to be cleared up.  *I*
found Japlady's post very rude, and very naive, since it seemed to imply
that she feels that the entire world has access to DR's database, which,
obviously, it doesn't.

As for your "post" to the board, your post wasn't a suggestion.  It was a
very rude demand that we do something to help players during a shutdown,
since "the wizards on DR are too lazy or unresponsive to give help."  Of
course a rude and uncalled for post to a bboard is going to be removed.
Also, I don't feel my reply to you was rude, although it was a bit short.
Any escalation in tempers came afterwards, when you felt I was being 
unresponse or closed minded to your request.  Your request was noted, and
has been brought up and considered many times, and always it was decided
against.  My not immediately coding up what you requested is not "rude"
as you might feel.  Not every suggestion from a player can be coded, and,
after being up for over 2 years, we get very few new suggestions from players;
most are simply rehashes of older ideas that haven't been added for one reason
or another.  

If you can't handle your ideas not being worshiped, you have a very definate
problem.  As I stated in my first mail to you concerning your post to our
BBoard, we simply didn't want such a feature on DR.  Take it or leave it.

It's also funny to note that, once Japlady approached the Darker Realms
administration, and didn't post to news, her situation was quickly cleared
up.  Funny, that.

>@}`-
>Luthien
>
>---
>	(i do not know what it is about you that closes
>	and opens; only something in me understands
>	the voice of your eyes is deeper than all roses)
>
>	nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands
>
>	                           -e e cummings

+--------------------+- But on eliminating every other reason -------------+
| John Price         |    For our sad demise                               |
| john@stat.tamu.edu |      They logged the only explaination left         |
+--------------------+-------- This species has amused itself to death ----+
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Re: Note to any fellow DikuMUD coders...
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:42:02 GMT
	<9212261801.AA05796@TIS.COM> <1993Jan5.214141.26080@netcom.com>
Organization: Redheads Anonymous
In-reply-to: wisner@netcom.com's message of Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:41:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.214141.26080@netcom.com> wisner@netcom.com (Bill Wisner) writes:

   [inet_ntoa()] works if you use Sun's C compiler.  It generates a core
   dump if you use gcc.  This is because of a difference in the way the
   two compilers pass structures as arguments.

Try gcc -fpcc-struct-return.  Also required if you use system (n)dbm
libraries.

				AMBAR
From: bombman@diku.dk (Hans-Henrik St{rfeldt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:36:22 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Joi L. Ellis) writes:

>Why are you EXCLUDING the PLAYERS!?  THEY are the ones who are directly
>affected by any policy decisions you make.  Who do you think you are to
>exlude the very people you are directly affecting?  This is like a bunch
>of whites getting together to dicide what rights they're going to allow
>the minorities to have.  

How do you think women got a right to vote?

>I hope I never find  myself on one of your muds!

Please read the article again! John states very clearly why!

There is no need to build this up to a two-front war.
The whole purpose of making the document is to the benefit
of he players anyway. As of now, playes have *NO* rights, and
someone wants to change that (or atleast affect it). Is that so bad?

>-- 
>Joi Ellis                      msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
>Student Residential Programs   Western Illinois University

--Hans Henrik Staerfeldt
-- 
 ___________________________________________________
|            Bombman the mad bomber                 |
|               Bombman@diku.dk                     |
|___________________________________________________|
From: $wuek@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Aisan Mud?
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:56:03 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada


	Please! Anyone knows any MUD game located in the Asia?
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:23:20 GMT

In article <C0rLIL.Dxt@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai) writes:
>However, since all admin character can claim to be roleplaying, normal player
>characters are at their mercy and have no innate ethical rights.  This effect
>is the same as that of players themselves having no such ethical rights when
>playing.

No.  People logged on muds don't roleplay 100% of the time.  It is impossible
for a wizard to do anything to a non-roleplaying person "in character"; of
course, he still does what he wishes, but "in character" is an inaccurate
description.  And non-in-character ethics therefore apply.

I've never yet seen, for instance, a wizard spying on players invisibly and
then saying "well, it's OK, I'm roleplaying a character who is capable of
turning himself invisible".  You hear lots of excuses, but they're all
player-type excuses.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: JMEESSE@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit MI  U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:30:19 GMT

 
Ok, my two cents :)
 
I'm a DemiGod on an Lp.  The mud is run by one God, three Demis, and about
4 or 5 Archwizards.  There are about 15 to 20 wizards currently coding on the
mud.  The God of the mud and I both came from Nightfall, prior to the current
switchover to Native mode.  Any of you people out there who have ever played
on the old Nightfall can attest to the fact that it was complete chaos.  There
were many instances of super-weapons, wizards blatently helping players, and
rogue wizards that went around killing players.  At the time there were over
300 wizards on Nightfall and there was no way to watch them all or impose
some ruling on "standard" and "illegal" objects.  Because of this, Johanne,
(The God of the Mud I'm a Demi on) set up his own mud with some very strict
rules and guidlines.  We do not allow any interferance of wizards in the
"day-to-day" life of players.  We also do not allow any on-game transfer of
critical quest info from player to player (This doesn't mean the players can't
help each other or give hints).  In order to facilitate this, all players know
that their every move is being watched (well, not their every move, that would
be impossible ;). Only the highest levels of the admin (Johanne, the 3 demis,
and one or two of the archs) are privy to the information gleaned from these
activities.  This information is kept in the strictest privacy and is never
handed out.
 
Now, I know that some of you will read the above and react with horror, but I
must say this;  The actual enjoyment of the game from the players point of
view is increased.  They need not worry about renegade wizards and can
play the game in peace.  Their enjoyment won't be ruined by another player
shouting out quest solutions.
 
We have never had any complaints about the current system, except from the
occasional player or wizard who has broken the game laws, which are concisely
spelled out in the church, guild, and any number of other places throughout
the mud.  The offending player or wizard when banashed, has occasionally
returned and tried to stir up the general populace with horror stories about
the constant vigilance, all of which have been false.  When a player or wizard
is banished, they have the right to appeal their case to another wizard that
is higher up in the admin sequence and they are given a fair hearing after
which a final decision is made.
 
The most important thing to remember is that LpMuds and other Mu*s are
GAMES.  If you want to discuss something that you feel is private and don't
want anyone else to know about, use email or talk or any number of other
facilities which can't be intercepted.
 
 John Meesseman     (Ploi@Frontier && Ploi@Nightfall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
From: jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson)
Subject: Re: worf.tamu.edu 2000 is open to non-texans?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:40:32 GMT


Adding my 2 quatlus in support of DR....

To the person who claimed that DR's "attitude" would lead to its downfall:
the MUD has survived all this time with that "attitude". It's called Order.
While the implementation has affronted a few, many more still keep coming
back to DR in search of more and better diversions. Why would 2000+ players
even bother with something as totalitarian as you seem to think DR is?
Perhaps it's not as arbitrary as you would have us believe. Hell, they have
to be doing *something* right to have endured for 2 1/2 years! MUDs come
and MUDs go, but DR has been there since slightly after I started playing
LPMUDs, and shows no sign of leaving any time soon.

People complain about the strictness of DR--yet there are over 2000 total
players. People complain about the rigorous requirements to attain wizard
level--yet with dozens of wizards currently there, and new ones cropping
up every so often who have solved the coveted 12 or more quests necessary,
there has to be some sort of appeal to the rigor.

If you want to kill players, go find another MUD.
If you want to make wizard in a day, go find another MUD.
If you want to build "gimme" castles which cater to players who don't
want a challenge, go find another MUD.
If you want to harass and insult players and wizards until they want to
see your steaming corpse nailed to a tree, get the hell off the net.

If you want a structured, play-oriented (not player-oriented), established
game with excellent challenges and continuously-expanding geography, give
Darker Realms a try. If not, then don't.

-- 
Jeff Williamson       ** "I am Gavin MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod...
ACNS/Northwestern U.  **  and my show is immortal."
Evanston, Illinois    **  
blackmagik@nwu.edu    **  There can be only one Love Boat (we hope).
From: starride@nighthawk.ksu.ksu.edu (David Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc
Subject: Players Rights from an old time player
Date: 7 Jan 1993 11:13:38 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nighthawk.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: My thoughts
Keywords: Player's Rights



	It is very nice to see that nothing has changed from the days of when 
lar released muds to the world. 

	What am I talking about. Simply this what all of you are arguing and
discussing has been happening since muds started on the nets. Fenris died due
to the players abusing it (for those who even know what or were Fenris was).
And now once again the cry for fairness and rules comes forth.


	My idea is for the god/gods and wizards who run the game to make a
policy for THEIR mud and stick with it. PERIOD.

	Unless you all allow some council to enter your mud and overwatch your
mud there is no way any rule can ever be made to stick. Hell it is hard enough
to watch what ever one is doing as it is.

	And for all you people who dont like or get along with the people 
who are running the mud you are on heres what you do 


	GET THE FUCK OFF THAT MUD AND FIND ONE YOU DO LIKE.


	David Chase   aka   Saydor


	From some one who has seen and heard enough basing of muds and mud people.



Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.misc:1845 rec.games.mud.tiny:1268
From: tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:37:29 GMT
Reply-To: tuff@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article drevreck@colargol.edb.tih.no (Lars Syrstad) writes:
>
>When running a mud, I would reserve myself the right to decide both
>what legal AND what ethical rules that apply in the virtual world.
>
>I might assume that everything that goes on inside the game is
>role-playing, and might choose to forcibly throw out anyone that I, and
>I alone, feel are bringing Real Life concerns into it.
>
>And, assuming everything is role-playing, nothing a character does could
>possibly be ethically wrong, be it rape or the advocating of nazism, unless
>it is declared as such by me. 
>
>My dream for the perfect mud is a place where people actually role-play -
>in all respects. So why should I sign such a bill as being proposed here?
>

	I think perhaps you misunderstood me when I said "ethical" rights.
When I say ethical rights, I don't mean what someone does while they are
being in character - on that point, so long as they are being in theme,
I agree in that I believe people SHOULD be able to role-play their character,
and to be able to disregard societal ethics, if their character is that
way. (Of course, in character that also means I would feel no compunction
about DEALING with such a character in any appropriate in character method.)
What this conference is trying to do, or so I understood when I read the
proposal, was to determine player and admin ethical rights, NOT character
ethical rights.

	Geoff Tuffli
	The Green Griffin