HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Boycott Worse than Pointless
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:42:02

In article <mattm-051192110133@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) writes: 

   In case of doubt, call for a boycott, eh?  Perhaps a little
   reflection is in order, first?  The election is over.  The vote
   has been cast.  Even if the voters in Colorado were to wake up
   tomorrow morning slapping their head in shock and dismay, 
   exlaiming "What have I done?" - there's nothing that can be 
   done about it until the next election.

No.  If nothing is done "until the next election" then nothing will
ever happen.

   The only avenue open to countering this amendment is through
   the courts.  The courts will not be swayed by a boycott of
   all things Coloradean.  

The courts may be the best option for quickly removing the CFV turd
from Colorado's constitution, but in the long run the people need to
be convinced that crap like amendment 2 shouldn't be voted into law in
the first place.  If it takes a hit to their economy to do it, so be
it. 

   Ergo, a boycott will have *no* *impact* on the resolution of
   the crisis in Colorado.

This does not follow, except in a very narrow, short-term view.

   It would be far better to support the Colorado gay community in
   their efforts to pursue legal action.  A boycott would have
   exactly the opposite effect.  Damage to the Colorado economy
   (however slight it may be) will be reflected in the Colorado
   gay community.  Thus, the actions of a self-righteous pack of
   faggots external to Colorado will be diminishing the ability of 
   the Colorado gay community to fight.

Why is it either/or?  I personally think legal action will be more
effective than a boycott, but the options are certainly not mutually
exclusive.  I definitely plan to shop in CA before going home (to CO)
for the holidays.

   Indeed, here we have an amendment saying it is now illegal to toss
                                                      ^^^^^^^
   someone from their job for being gay.  And how does the American
   gay community react?  By seeking to destroy the Colorado economy,
   thereby putting them out of work anyway.

I assume you meant "legal" rather than "illegal" above.  At any rate,
assuming a boycott is going to be successful enough to destroy the CO
economy is a large leap of faith.  If it did destroy the economy,
things would change pretty fast to avoid the boycott, wouldn't they?
I'd be surprised and pleased if the boycott had a measurable effect on
the state's economy.

   God save Colorado from a tide of Totalitarian Tinkerbells.

The fundies spewing hate in the name of their vicious "god" are rather
more of a threat.

- Bob
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Coloradan straight but not narrow
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:26:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Nov06.203905.47554@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> jn163051@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Joel Nevison) writes:
>Well folks, my first reaction was shame to be a citizen of this state.
>I have mixed feelings about the boycott issue, I see the need, but wish
>that those who did vote against #2 would not have to bear the cost of
>this (most likely necessary) boycott.

Since more people voted for the measure than voted against it, isn't it
likely that more bad guys will be affected than good?

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 23:18:37 GMT

In article <13NOV92.13153007@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>When I called the Gazette, I was able to speak directly to Angela Dire - - what
>a sweetheart!!  She was so thankful for the call...seems she's taking quite a
>lashing from Coloradians for Family Values, all loosely translating to "How
>DARE you put something about homosexuals in print!"   

   [rest of paragraph deleted]

>She also told me to feel free to give out the 800 number Margaret sent a few
>minutes ago:  800 / 800-4899.

>I think it's important that we support this lady who is taking such an
>unpopular stand against a group of people who happily voted to take away our
>human rights.

When I saw Sim's posting I  called and also spoke to her.  she is 
indeed a charming woman and  was pleasantly surprised that Co-2 has become 
such a big issue in the rest of the country.

One thing I would like to add to Sim's posting is the address of her paper:

30 South Prospect
Colorado Spring, Co 80901

I plan to write a letter to the editor, since I think they need to know 
that  we support her.

Emily
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 00:17:43 GMT


In article <1992Nov6.231031.22752@gordian.com>
mike@gordian.com (Michael A.  Thomas) writes:

>In article <thaaang.721089376@cwis>,
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>> John, in bisexual woman drag (icepick in clutchpurse, of course)

>  Now stop that. You'd make a fine first lady -er- love-thang.
>Put your icepick back. You could be the most shameless corruptoress
>in the history of America if only you play your cards right :-)
 
What's that "could be" shit?  Anybody can see the future Mr^2
Kemp-Thaaang *is* playing his cards right.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: broughton@lambda.usask.ca ()
Subject: Re: Boycott Colorado
Reply-To: broughton@lambda.usask.ca ()
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:41:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.195019.9931@craycos.com>, mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish) writes:
|>In article <4450@wet.UUCP> charlie@wet.UUCP (Charlie GALVIN) writes:
|>
|>>   I don't read the newsgroups very often, so pardon me if this is
|>>   duplicative.  But it's important for every person concerned about
|>>   civil rights to consider boycotting Colorado in the wake of the
|>>   passage of Amendment 2, which changed the state Constitution to
|>>   prohibit "sexual orientation" from being included in state or local
|>>   anti-discrimination laws.  It is now explicitly legal to discriminate
|>>   on the basis of sexual orientation in Colorado.
|>
|>Amendement #2 only applies to gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, NOT to
|>heterosexuals.  The amendment does not include the words "sexual
|>orientation", so you cannot discriminate against someone because they
|>are heterosexual or believed to be heterosexual.
|>
|>Colorado for "Family Values" made sure that there would be no backlash
|>from gay or lesbian owned businesses.

...

|>>   If you happen to be a gay business owner in Colorado, may I suggest
|>>   that you fire all your heterosexual employees?  After all *that's*
|>>   legal too!
|>
|>(see above, you cannot discriminate agains heterosexuals, only
|>homosexuals and bisexuals)
|>
|>Later...Randy

What you say is simply not true. Since there are no existing laws that prohibit
discriminination against a person because they are heterosexual, you *CAN*
discriminate against someone who is heterosexual by firing them. This *IS* legal
anywhere in Colorado that does not have a sexual orientation clause (Aspen,
Denver and Boulder, I believe).

Anyone living outside those cities can fire all their heterosexual employees
due to their sexual orientation if they so wish just as a heterosexual employer
can fire their homosexual, lesbian or bisexual employess for the same reason.

Darrell
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Novelty time!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:26:54 GMT

Well it looks like the road to heaven
But it feels like the road to hell
When I knew which side my bread was buttered
I took the knife as well

	- 'Freedom', George Michael

	Something to Save (Queer song! Queer song!) - George Michael

If you've got something to say
Why don't you say it
If you've got something to give
Why don't you give it to me
Day after day I have to say it
We're moving further from heaven and closer to the deep blue sea

'Cause I have no secrets from you
And I have nothing left to hide
And I'm open to all your questions
Why can't you reach inside
Like I have for you

And all these games you play
Don't tell me how a man should be
Some would say if you knew		Psst! Queer innuendos!!!
You wouldn't be here with me
I love you, I still love you
But I guess it's time to let you be

'Cause I have no secrets from you 
And I have nothing left to hide
And I'm so tired of all these questions
'Cause maybe you just changed your mind
Like I have

When I was at your doorstep
you told me to look around
Said 'Come in; you and your heart sit down'
But you better watch your step
'cause you're not far from the ground
And one fine day this all falls down
Like I have

If you've got something to say
Why don't you say it
If you've got something to give
Why don't you give it to me
Day after day I have to say it
If we've got something to save
Why don't we save it

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ted9e@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Thomas Edward Doyle)
Subject: Re: New Bear Club in Albuquerque
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 02:09:47 GMT

I'll be there!!!!!!

Crow
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Don't Stop!  (played by Clinton/Gore after victory speech)
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 06:09:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.131058.17247@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>Vladimir (if you wanna be hot shit, put the stress on the
>second syllable: [vla-dee'-mir]) Posner speaks perfect,
>unaccented, idiomatic American English.  I think that comes
>to pass because he lived here a long time, including when he
>was young.

He grew up in New York City, in fact, because his father was attached
to some consular post (or perhaps the UN).

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||   -- My Bloody Valentine
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson, Buchanan, Helms, VOTE!!!
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:31:36 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser):
>>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark):
>>> Me too.  I'd really like to fuck his tight ass.  Of course, I'd have
>>> to give him a chainsaw enema first.
> 
>>why?  we want it to hurt!
> 
> Then give him an _alum_ enema ... for that nice, _TIGHT_ feeling.

i was thinking more along the lines of molten lead.
we wouldn't him stretching out too quickly after all
that prostrate exercise...
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gender Parity
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:11:05 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Nov10.215839.25777@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu  
(Thomas B Carlin) writes:

> What IS GENDER PARITY?

A concept which destroys gay and lesbian organizations by distracting  
attention from important issues into endless and futile debate.

> How important is it to lesbigay groups (and the lesbigay
> community as a whole.

Very. Male domination is a serious problem in any group that tries to be  
representative of the entire community.

> What can we do to ensure gender parity if it is
> important.

Not much, particularly at a male-dominated institution. It is helpful to  
have female executives, but this is not a cure-all. In my five years at  
UBC, the gay and lesbian organization here has made various moves, from  
the passive to the passionately active, in an effort to achieve greater  
female participation. Success was very limited until we had a woman in  
charge of things. Now, we have perhaps 10% female involvement, which is  
the best it has been in years.

If you can't guess, I'm not particularly enamoured of the issue. It  
certainly wasted a lot of time at UBC, and it came down to the fact that  
GLUBC was male dominated because it was male dominated, and that women  
didn't want to get involved because there were not very many women  
involved. My conclusion is that this is such a catch-22 situation that  
almost nothing that can be done.

>  an example is the anti-harassment committee, where only
>  4 white males seemed to be interested in the topic (or,
>  in defense of those who were interested, could not make
>  the meetings no matter when we scheduled them).  Having
>  4 white males decide and plan such events as "A Day
>  Without Harassment" **_really_** stuck in the craw of
>  several of our womyn members, and a HUGE debate was
>  sparked.

If "only 4 white males seemed to be interested", only four white males are  
going to organize it. People who don't participate in something have no  
right to complain about it. What was the debate?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky)
Subject: The New Yorker magazine supports Colorado!
Organization: Beach Systems / RTFM UN*X Solutions, Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 05:59:38 GMT

The _New Yorker_ magazine, with (I suspect) a large gay readership,
supports Colorado by using a 'fulfillment service' in Boulder to
process subscriptions.

Write them (20 West 43rd Street, New York NY 10036) and complain.
Tell them to find a subscription processing service in another state.

I called the New Yorker subscription service (1-800-825-2510) and was
treated very rudely when I asked about the company's non-discrimination
policy. I'm sending a tape of this conversation to the _New Yorker_. 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Clinton's Address??
Keywords: clinton motss politics
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:25:27 GMT

> mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Rockville) writes:

>          ...Unfortunately I don't have a mailing address for Clinton, and I'm
>sure there are other people who need it too.  Could somebody please post an
>address?  (NOT 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. - yet :)

I know the US Mail has its problems, but nevertheless feel
fairly confident that a letter addressed to

          The Honorable Bill Clinton
          Governor's Mansion
          Little Rock, Arkansas

would probably find its way there, even without a street
address or a ZIP code...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Summary: Marky Mark and SEX
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:08:01 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov11.195215.29910@Princeton.EDU>, sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.184912.21340@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >
> >Assuming that *is* Marky Mark in the Calvin Klein ad in this
> >month's GQ (and even if it isn't), he can hold his
> >well-sculpted whatevers against me anytime he'd like.
> 
> Yes, that is definitely Marky Mark.  The NY Times had an article when
> Calvin Klein signed Marky Mark to do his underwear ads.  It was full
> of wonderful double entendres, with Calvin Klein saying things like
> he hired Marky Mark so he "could have him just how he wanted him."
> I, for one, was amused.

I heard from an industry friend yesterday that Marky Mark will soon
have a book out that makes Madonna's SEX book look like a rewrite of
THE SOUND OF MUSIC.  Is explores his kinky(?!) sexuality (I was told).
It is supposed to be VERY explicit.  I'll post more as I learn more.

Bil Gonzalez
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Love is rare, Life is strange, Nothing lasts, People change"
				-from OLD FRIEND
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The American Way of Birth
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:19:36 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> jclander@mitre.org (Julian C. Lander) writes:

>Debo (Deborah?) - She married the heir to the Duke of Devonshire,
>	and her husband eventually succeeded to the title. She
>	is a very wealthy aristocrat (the Devonshires have money).

Even better -- for them anyway -- the Devonshires have *land*.
I think they're right up there with the Grosvenor Estate and
the Crown as one of the biggest landlords in Britain (and
Ireland).

Jessica Mitford, as Julian mentioned, lives right here in
Oakland, CA, with her hubby Bob Truehaft (he was a commie
too, by the way).  They're in their 80s now, and much
beloved in the Bay Area.  Nancy was always considered the
shining star of the family, and her untimely death (in a
plane crash? in the '60s?) rocked Britain to its very
foundations (end of civilization as we know it, and all
that), as I recall...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: krevy_b@apollo.hp.com (Bob Krevy)
Subject: CO-2 is not odorless.
Originator: krevy_b@watertown
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:35:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

Hi all,

Anybody aware of planning-in-action in response to CO-2, going on in
the Greater Boston area?  If so, my face will be there.

This is the "straw that broke the camel's back," as far as I am con-
cerned.  I think that the action, on the part of Colorado voters, is
despicable and hateful.  Whatever I can from this end to help out on
the larger scale and locally, I will.

I'll be watching Bay Windows for mobilization efforts; but meanwhile,
anybody know of meetings going on this week or over the weekend?

I have 25,000 air miles in & out of Ft.Collins over the last 4 years,
have spent megabucks in CO over that time, and WON'T DO THAT AGAIN -
NO, NO, NO.  Not a dime, not a minute, not one tippy-toe on CO soil,
again.

BTW - my heart goes out to everyone of you who live in CO2-land.  It
      must be an awful, creepy, uneasy feeling to just *be* there. I
      think about you all the time.

Thanks for the info. & for listening,

-Bob

P.S. My opinions are mine.  My company's are *eloqently* stated in 
     its 1992 non-discrimination policy.   HP does not discriminate 
     against any employee because of race, creed, color, religion, 
     gender, national origin, secual orientation, age, disability 
     or (for the U.S) Vietnam-era veteran status.  Also, within HP
     any comments or conduct relating to a person's race, gender, 
     religion, disability, age, sexual orientation or ethnic back-
     ground that fail to respect the dignity and feelings of the 
     individual are unacceptable.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Black Lizard": film recommendation
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:03:46 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

In article <1dmvbbINNate@agate.berkeley.edu>  writes:
> 
> The script was written by Yukio Mishima.

Mishima also appears briefly in the movie. He's killed in a knife-fight,
and is made into a "living doll" by Black Lizard.

(And I second the recommendation: it's great fun. Available on video.)

Bill
From: rrizzo@BBN.COM (Ron Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: New Republic editor openly gay
Keywords: New Republic, mainstream press, magazines
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:55:30 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

Folks,

I just heard on NPR that the magazine The New Republic now has an openly gay
editor, Andrew Sullivan!

Has anyone heard more about this?

Regards,
Ron
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuck@ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Subject: Colorado info needed
Originator: chuck@fourier
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 16:03:06 GMT


If this info is on a thread I haven't read yet, please forgive me.

My friends and I would like to write letters to public officials
and/or newspapers in Colorado expressing our outrage at the
vote on Tuesday.  Could someone please post addresses of
appropriate persons?

Also, fyi, our fledgling glb network at Kodak is going to ask
our management to protest the vote, since Kodak has a major 
operation in Windsor, CO.



-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
From: rickc@agora.rain.com (Rick Coates)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Oregon aftermath
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:30:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BxBFv6.6HB
Organization: Open Communications Forum

novick@ogicse.ogi.edu (David G. Novick) writes:

>First, as an Oregonian since 1958, I'd like to give my thanks to
>those outside the state who contributed money, time, and encouragement
>in the fight against Measure 9.  I believe that your help made a
>real difference in the outcome; without this help, M9 probably would
>have passed.

Ditto, and to those inside the state, too.

...
>also true, however, that some 45 percent of the voters here chose the
>path of bigotry and hatred.  

Also, many (maybe more than half) of the counties voted yes. (Oregon has
numerous counties with low population.)

>A couple of points about the characteristics of M9 yes-voters struck
>me as particularly interesting.  

...

And a little confused.  Exit polls showed that 27% of those who voted
yes *favored* anti-discrimination laws for gays and lesbians in
employment and housing.


Rick
rickc@agora.rain.com
From: AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:29:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <BxB6Fq.7C4@scd.hp.com>,
mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>Jake Coughlin (jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams):
>> >>>>What about Jack Kemp?
>> >>Was he finally outed for real?
>> >
>> > I meant that if he does run for Prez in '96 he will
>> > undoubtedly be outed.
>>
>> darling, if he does run for Prez in '96, he will
>> undoubtedly get married.
>> --
>Maybe it'll be hard for him to find a bride after he's
>been thoroughly outed??

  I guess that no one has told his screaming fans at
the republiKKKan convention about this 'outing'.