From: pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
Subject: Re: "Keep Your Pollution!" (Article)
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:45:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <3596@execu.execu.com> mike@execu.execu.com (Mike McCants) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.211303.1784@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis) writes:
>>In article <3595@execu.execu.com> mike@execu.execu.com (Mike McCants) writes:
>>>Wow, what a neat proposal.  Let's have a UN body that is responsible
>>>to no electorate (but to the "votes" of the "East"?) make our
>>>economic and political decisions.  Not much point in having a
>>>presidential election, is there?
>>
>>Welcome to the Third World Mr. McCants. I would hope your sense of
>>empathy for the lives of many citizens of most of the world would be
>>heightened by sharing in the experience of powerlessness. In case its
>>not obvious, substitute "East" with "West" in the above, and position
>>yourself in India or elsewhere. Yeah, its a gross simplification, but
>>it carries a subtle truth.
>>
>
>I can't make much sense out of what I think you said.

>I don't expect to "share in their experience of powerlessness" until
>Clinton takes office in January.  Are you claiming that the UN responds
>to the wishes of the West?  

The UN has been in existence for about 40 years. For most of its
existence, it has been dominated by a handful of countries, notably
those that gave themselves a seat on its Security Council. In the last
decade, many small countries have come up with some moderately
successful strategies to combat this domination. It may or may not be
coincidental that over the same period, the interest of the previously
dominant nations in the role of the UN has diminished.

			     I disagree.  Let's have a vote to shut down
>the UN and see who really wants to keep it.  Let's see if those who
>benefit from its programs want to keep it and those who pay are willing
>to abolish it.  

Lets hold that vote in 1955, and see who wants to keep it then.

>I don't see any subtle truths here.

Perhaps your sense of history is as weak as your parochialism is
strong. Perhaps my writing is as muddy as my ideas.

>If they are powerless, is it because they voluntarily gave up
>their power?  

If I were from a country like Panama, Nicaragua, Vietnam,
Cambodia, the Phillipines or Puerto Rico, I would personally attend to
your assassination. 

However, since I originate from a nation that did the same thing to
India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, most of Africa and parts of the middle
East, I'll just admit my complicity in it all.
	       
"Voluntarily gave up their power" - are you deliberately insulting, or
have you never met anyone from a country screwed over by the west ?

>                                             The UN will soon give
>us $4/gal gasoline.  Then I will no longer pay more in insurance
>than I do for fuel.

What a tragedy. Maybe the rest of your life will start to reflect the
actual cost of supporting it, too. I lived happily in a country where
gasoline cost $4/gal (or its time-adjusted equivalent)for most of my
life. Only the advent of Thatcher and her fellow stooges, coupled with
a longing for some real wilderness close by, forced me out. Let me
assure you that $4/gal is not the end of the world, and on the
contrary, could be the start of the real one.

-- paul
-- 
"Fun" is a word invented by advertising executives to sell soft drinks.