From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: Bison is NOT King of the top Sure he's easy to use (except for me, I could never use him just for the
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:04:46 GMT

In <By3Iu2.K8t@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>
>	You're right, it is Ryu.  He has the best combined chance against
>	any given opponent.  He does however, have two "natural enemies" 
>	namely Zangief and Sagat.  Zangief can be dealt with through A LOT
>	of well timed fireballs and basically nasty defensive play.  Sagat 
>	on the other hand really has Ryu's number.  A basic, unimaginative 
>	pattern Sagat can beat even master Ryu's.  Really.  A standard 
>	fireball, fireball uppercut pattern with minor interspertions of
>	kicks and Tiger knees will beat Ryu.  The only effective technique 
>	I have seen against Sagat, is a lot of close range attacks, and a 
>	shameless exploitation of his relatively poor throw.  The above   
>	comments are made under the assumption that you are fighting a 
>	non-foolish Sagat (a patient and well timed Sagat who does not allow
>	himself to be kicked out of uppercuts).  Unless you really have   
>	seen some amazing Ryu technique to beat Sagat, please do not respond.
>	I am addressing those who have truly mastered the game so don't    
>	respond with the brilliant revelation that you can kick Sagat's arm
>	during a high fireball.  Basically, do not insult my intelligence 
>	or experience by restating anything even vaguely obvious.  Thank you.
>	
     Hmm for some strange reason I think you are talking about me.  Actually
it is usually just that most Ken/Ryu's don't know much about the spacing
when playing against Sagat.  There is a position where Ken/Ryu (or any character) can jump in fairly successsfully against Sagat.  I find most don't do this
though.  The difficulty stems from the fact that most Sagat's I have seen
do the tiger uppercut from the stance and hence get kicked out of it a LOT!
     HOWEVER, if you tiger uppercut out of the crouch, it is extremely difficult
not to exchange at the least with Sagat.  Like I said, there are several 
positions where characters can jump in on Sagat...you just have to find them.
     As for the cheap exploitation of Sagat's short throw range, that is merely
due to the Sagat players lack of counter throwing ability.  I am convinced he
can most always counter throw.  I however lack this timing.  Hence the reason
you shamefully beat me with ryu.  Eu-Ming can counter throw therefor I am
just deficient in countering a realization I have come to grips with and
am workijg to correct. 
     The spacing to jump in on Sagat is roughly 3/4 of the screen away with 
Ken or Ryu, and closer than that with Guile.  There are of corse no Tiger
Uppercutting counters to this move, and I am working on several stronger
than what I previously know.  For me at least, I look at Sagat as an extremely
defensive character, very poor up close with the exception of the tiger moves.
He is a Dhalsim with a dragon punch if you will, but of course lacking some
of the abilities that make Dhalsim a strong character, such as the slide,
long limbs, etc...such being the case, you have to play against him
similar to the way you do against Dhalsim, with well timed and spaced jumps,
and a good mix of long range fireballs, then capitalize when you get to
that postion of advantage else you will get shoved back into the keep away game.
     Hope this helps you avoid being 'cheep'  Though I doubt it.  It seems you
are currently the most shamefully cheap player here at UIUC.  Surpassing
even Eu-MIng.  I mean usually Eu-Ming will not exploit a character who has
a counter throw deficiency until they die.  He may do it only to stay on the
machine, but will typically at least try to make it more interesting than
ticks to death ... most of tthe time anyway....so don't go taking this as a cue
to tick to death Eu-Ming...isn't it kind of boring?


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