From: scott@athena.mit.edu (Scott D Bradburn)
Subject: Re: Zangief Sucks in SFII:TCE!!!!
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:05:37 GMT

In article <92100.094610U21952@uicvm.uic.edu>, U21952@uicvm.uic.edu (George `Wooster' Wu) writes:
|> bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Roy Smith) says:
|> >

[irrefutable facts deleted]

|> 
|> >2)after I perform the mighty SPD the victim bounces away 5 million miles
|> > causing me not to be able to press the attack
|> 
|>    This is not TOO bad against most characters if you can get them in the
|> corner but against Dhalsim, I almost cried. Its hard enough getting in close to
|> Dhalsim, let alone to lose your advantage when you SPD him after getting him
|> cornered. Then its back to getting my ass kicked by the fireball/forward kick
|> routine.
|> 

A couple notes, if you SPD in your corner you can get close enough to try
to do another SPD, because although both opponents bounch apart, you can't
because of the wall.  This may also work in your opponents corner, but I haven't
seen it tried.  I watched a Zangief kill a good dhalsim.  Your new advantage
is you get LOTS more double hits, A LOT easier then you used to be able to.
Against dhalsim you will win the exchanges, and he'll lose.  You don't need
to get close, you just need to get good at trading hits after jumping the
fireball.  Use the SPD to your opponents detriment if he makes an error that
allows you to get close.

[point deleted due to lack of any info]

|> >4)oh big doodie! They give him a moving lariat.....so now when I move in
|> > closer I can be swept
|>     I personally thought it won the awards for the dumbest "enhancement" made
|> to the old SFII  characters in the CE. And it moves SOOOO slow that you could
|> harldy press an attack with it, and a simple kick will bring it down. WOW to
|> Capcom for this powerful move.
|> >

The moving lariat isn't used to press attack, it's allows zangief to move in
a small amount while a missile attack passes through.  Just not close enough
to initiate an attack without moving in range of a foot sweep.  You'll still
have to be creative.  The biggest improvement isn't a visible one, but a physical
one.  The zangief lariat is now a defense against several deadly attacks that
it didn't use to defend against, like the flaming torpedo (woe to the bison
sucker that torpedoes zangief now!)  It stops cross screen screaming eagle
attacks, but I don't know about attacks from directly overhead.  Plus Zangief
can duck high tiger balls.  Those are the very useful combination additions.
Note:  No one player can be truly dominant now.  There are very few players that
have no chance of beating any given foe.  One exception that comes to mind is
Dhalsim has no prayer against Vega  (at least that I've seen so far)  But as
a general rule, you can't win because your character over matches another.
You have to win because YOU are better.  There is no mega slime to fall back
on.  Bison is a good example.  His move are very limited in ability.  A bison
will never be able to get any better then a torpedo ticker.  Any other character
who's played with brains can beat this.  It's just that any idiot can get in
and play Bison to his full potential almost instantly.

|> 
|> >I was just wondering if there are any other master Zangiefs out there who
|> >were as disappointed as I was.
|> 
|>    I'm sure there are several out there... I had no problems against anyone but
|>  Dhalsim, like you, but am overwhelmed by just about ALL the characters in CE.
|> As it was, Zangief was the weakest character in the first SFII without his SPD
|> but now he defines the word "Pathetic".

No way is he pathetic.  He matches up very nicely to everyone.  He's no longer
a grand king of the game.  In the old game, if he ever threw you once, 2 more SPD
later and its a new round.  Now you, nor any other player, has such a slimy
tick routine.  Rebuttal about Bison:  He can only get in one torpedo hit and
3 or 4 blocks unless you're stupid enough to let him hit with the second torpedo.
This doesn't do any ungodly amount of damage like a SPD.

|> 
|> >For some reason I've been able to get away with the jump in with knees\SPD
|> >combo using the middle punch button but it is not always reliable
|> >
|> >I used to be able to use press the attack after my opponent has fallen using
|> >the middle kick sweep and going to the SPD but I always get thrown
|> >
|>     THe Knee/SPD has been mad unreliable if ineffectual and the forward sweep/
|> SPD won't work because of the priority all characters have on throwing, etc
|> when they get up. This stinks because I use to love doing the roundhouse sweep/
|> SPD or the crouch fiercepunch/SPD, especially on Guile Players.
|> 

Hey, figure something that involves tactics out instead of the cheesy tick/throw
routine.  Similarly Chun Li can no longer use the flurry of unstoppable kick+
throws, but she doesn't suck.  You just have to plan better.  Blanka was moved
up to the contender range.  Now you can't go to an anti-blanka character and
automatically win.  You have to *work*

[A bunch of complaints due to lack of unstoppable routines, and inability
to avoid certain new attack routines deleted]

One comment:  Every new move and old move either has a counter or escape.
Don't expect to find a routine that instantly wins all your matches.  Those
who relied on double stuns and unbeatable tick/throw combinations will now
have to shape up or ship out.

|> 
|>   George Wu  <---->  e-mail: u21952@uicvm.uic.edu


Scott
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