HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jav@accolade.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (25853-lujan)
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 21:54:47 GMT

>When I laid out the cards (using a celtic cross spread) the final outcome
>card was Death.  As soon as I saw it, I said "don't panic, that means
>more of a transformation than a physical death," but it was already too
>late.  Turns out, her daughter had tried to commit suicide earlier in 
>the week.  I knew she was worried about her daughter, but I didn't know
>what the situation was.  I kept trying to work the card into the reading
>as a whole -- one of our other housemates is dying of cancer, so death
>is on all of our minds lately.
-- 
Hi Dawn, I've been giving readings for about 11 years and
at first I had a hard time with cards such as "death", the "devil", 
and several others.  What helped me was, to meditate on those
cards to understand why they are necessary and why they come up on 
someone's reading.  I meditated on those cards time and time again 
until I felt confortable seeing them on a reading. 

I bought many decks through the years, but still rely on my 2 oldest 
decks (Rider-Waite, Morgan-Greer) to give readings because those are 
the ones I feel most confortable with.  Use a deck you feel confortable.
My advice to you is that when a card such as "death" appears on 
someone's reading, don't be alarmed.  It's important to stay calm
so that the person you're giving a reading to, doesn't become frightened.
Also, it's important for you to stay calm so that you can pick up 
psychic vibes and understand the message, to relate it to the person.

I see the "death" card (outcome on celtic cross) as a new beginning, 
things can no longer continue the way they are.  If the card was 
reverse, I'll say that the person will have difficuly accepting 
the changes, but the transformation will still take place.  You can
reassure the person that the current situation will definitely change
soon. I don't know what the rest of the spread was, you'll need to
look at the whole spread to accurately interpret the reading. 
Best wishes..            ... Javier    
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:01:12 GMT

Tammy,

> It is the warm embrace of a lover.  It is the tender embrace 
> of a parent, sibling, or child.  It is the embrace of the wind
> as it carresses your cheek and whips through your hair.  It is
> the embrace of the spirit as you breathe it in, filling your 
> every cell with life...

*much deleted*

Very eloquent and very beautiful.  I can say nothing to add to your
words.  You have touched me.  Thank you.

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: porta@wam.umd.edu (David Delaney Palmer)
Subject: Re: Merry Yule to you all!!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 00:11:00 GMT

In article <BzJr3D.GBv@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy) writes:
>A merry Yule to all those who read this. 
>
>Pray for peace in Bosnia and Somalia.
>
>Sorry for the wasted bandwidth
>
>
>Lost Boy

	Don't be sorry.  It's not wasted.
                              BB
                              David

-- 
***************************** porta@wam.umd.edu ****************************

                     Still looking for an interesting quote.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Animism/Animatism
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Dec 92 03:50:41 GMT

As the terms are used in anthropology, they mean the following;
hopefully, I do not have them switched.

animism: the belief that eveything in the universe has a spirit
associated with it -- that each rock and piece of dirt has a "soul" of
some sort.

animatism: that there exists a central motivating, moving force for
everything in the universe, that need not be personalized or sentient.

Blessings,
Janis

P.S.: Yep -- I'm back!  I'll have to post and tell you about meeting
Corun later -- what a sweetie!


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pyotr@halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe)
Subject: Re: The Pagan Thing, again
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:12:14 GMT

drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:

>I know that its been said before, and will be said time and again.

>pagan comes from the latin root that brought us paisano,
>or also known in spanish as compasino....

>Or one from the country. 

>It took on added notions when the 'good people' got ahold
>of it, and married it with the notion of 'civilization'
>and 'progress' as some how being a fundamental notion of
>Xtianity, and a part of the Mission of Xtianity.

oh contrare, mon frere!
civilization has always been connected with Urban Growth!
Note the nifty expansion from 'civis' to civilization and citizen.

the pagans / rubes / 'heathians' put down has always been 
with us.  It is well known that country folk are not as
sophisticated the urbane city dweller.

>ciao
>drieux

>ps: when I am in the bush, I am a pagan. When I am home,
>my housemate complains if I light a fire in the living 
>room to make dinner.... something about they have these
>new fangeld rooms with stuff that does it..... 
     ^^^^^^^
'fanegeld'? 'FANEGELD'!  Whatever happened to the DaneGeld?
its 'newefangel' frm OE 'fangen' to seize.

>He also thinks that running outside when it rains is
>NOT his idea of personal hygene, who ever gene is....

>HI! Gene!

>NextWeek: the relationship between 'negro' and 'black'....

Next week: "US and Them; eliminating Them."
-- 
Pyotr aka Peter D. Hampe : eka pyotr@halcyon.com
Next Months Panel Topic: Graft - boon or blessing?
EOF
-- 
Pyotr aka Peter D. Hampe : eka pyotr@halcyon.com
Next Months Panel Topic: Graft - boon or blessing?
EOF
From: gaiaf@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:09 EST
Subject: Re: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Nf-ID: #R:kre-121292201513@b61693.student.:67307152:peg:483700071:000:189
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!gaiaf    Dec 24 15:09:00 1992


For other interesting approaches try contacting people who run
the Council of All Beings and other deep ecology, earth-centred
spirituality methods on cab.network

For Gaia and her peoples
From: gaiaf@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: 24 Dec 92 15:06 EST
Subject: Re: the problem
Nf-ID: #R:ByuIwv.5CK@news.iastate.edu:-675559046:peg:483700070:000:717
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!gaiaf    Dec 24 15:06:00 1992


You state

>the U.S. has the best, most stringent environmental policies in the world.

Having read about the way that environmental policies have been circum-
vented, delayed, not implemented through lack of funds, snow-balled and
philibusted by State and Federal governments I wonder if you are not being
UScentric in your statements.  Certainly, when you had a US President believing
that the major source of acid rain was pollution from trees!, and the USA
continuing to block sensible biodiversity and greenhouse gas emission policies
at international forii, like the UNCED Earth Summit at Rio, I would think that
the USA *IS* one of the major environmental problems in the world

For Gaia and her peoples

John
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Why the Cross?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 09:50:15 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <30DEC199213204214@jane.uh.edu> lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>Anyway Peter, it is a fallacy to use the bible as your only source.  It has
>been written and rewritten and added to and taken away from and translated 
>into so many different languages from so many different languages and been 
>reworked like so much play-dough....well you get the picture.
>
>Go back and study the time period from about, oh, 50 BC to about 300 AD.
>After you do that then go and read the bible, placing the words in context
>to the time period.  A whole new picture will arise in your mind.
>
>Tammy
>

Hmmm, I don't think I explained myself well enough.  What I'm trying to get 
at is this:  the major point of Xianity is the sacrafice of Jesus's life for
the redemption and cleasning away of sin from humanity.   

The symbol for that sacrafice is the cross upon which he died.  Therefore,
the symbol for Xianity is the cross or the crucifix.

My point in bringing up that quote from the Bible was to point out the idea
behind the sacrafice "God gave His only son . . . "

I quite agree with you re biblical translations, after the number of
translations are revisions the Bible has been thru, to rely on it as The
Literal Truth would be a big mistake.

One other point, something that always seemed odd to me:  there is so much
emphasis upon the death of Jesus, but little on the truly big event, his
resurrection 3 days later.  That, to me, seemed the biggest, most important
event in the life of this prophet, yet in many contemporary re-tellings of
the tale, this point is most decidely ignored.  Commentary?

Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: skmurphy@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Sean Keric Murphy)
Subject: Re: Why the Cross?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 22:21:36 GMT

uh, Alizard claimed that crucifixion was used only for cases of
treason?  From what I've been taught/told/etc., crucifixion was a
punishment for "common criminals" - two thieves were crucified at the
same time as Jesus, according to the Bible (and please, let's not go
back into discussions of authenticity of the Bible, ok? :)  By this
reasoning, Jesus was regarded as no better than a thief, certainly not
as a threat to the empire.  Granted, usually criminals were <tied>
during crucifixion, not nailed, but it's the general idea that counts, I
think...

Sean Murphy
skmurphy@phoenix.princeton.edu
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:04:32 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Magnificent statement of the *real* essentials, Amanda!  It sounds like our
families have been working from the same premises for quite a long time.  I
have been getting a stronger and stronger feeling, the longer I hang out on
these bboards, that there are a lot more families with such traditions out
there, doing their own thing quietly, than I had thought.  It's a very good
feeling, finding all these kindred spirits ...  -- Robert

PS I don't have anything really on esoteric freemasonry in Pennsylvania,
really, but that was Ben Franklin's territory as a freemason, and he had
contacts with masonic stuff in France that main-line freemasonry in Eng-
land and English North America wasn't inclined to regard as safe or legi-
timate.  Pennsylvania is where you have a real 17th/18th-century Rosicru-
cian colony, however, founded by one Kelpius.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: "Amy Young Leith" <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: (none)
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:45:32 -0500

In article <BzIxM6.Gsw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
>billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>No, many people think they have an idea what the word means. Your example
>>above shows that many people actually have little, or no clue.
>Yes, true.  My point ios the same, however.  Albeit for the wrong reasons, the
>term misleads.

How? 

>>: No.  But they invented a few.  A fe that sound silly and pompous when they use
>>: them.  Pagan is such a word.  Almost comical in connotation.  I don't mean to
>>: insult you....I don't know what I mean to do.  Yeargh.
>>So, why do you insist on applying labels to everything?
>I don't.  Pagans apparently do, which is why they gave themselves one.

Yes, it would be all nice and grand if we could all just *be*, however
because we can communicate at such a high level, we need ways to
communicate, in general, what we are, how we feel, what we believe in,
etc.  When I say that I am Pagan, that brings to mind a whole slew of
images to most people, and MOST of them commonly fit, otherwise I
would not use the word.  

amy
-- 
alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu for personal mail
			    All business mail to alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Dislcaimer:I only speak for myself.  Anyone who thinks differently is a fool.
			(This means NOT my employer!!)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:08:12 GMT

>In article <1307@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>> 
>> I've been brainstorming on ideas of how [plastic] could be re-used
>> effectively. 
>> I'd rather it did not get buried there and a shredded, pressed plastic and
>>(?) 
>> particle board or sheetrock would be a useful place to put it. 

Sigh.

Building code would probably prohibit that.  Many plastics put out toxic
gases when burned; you do _not_ want to kill the occupants of a house
due to a minor electrical fire.

I know you mean well, but you _must_ consider the consequences of things
going wrong.  There are _very_ tight restrictions on the structural materials
you are allowed to use -- plastics which produce toxic gases and aggregate
of unknown strength are simply not permitted.

(The "plastic wood" another person mentioned is _not_ a structural material.
You can see it in park benches and some playground equipment, but not in
home construction).


-- 
Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov/cs.colorado.edu
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The OED and the word "athame"
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:22:46 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

The reason that the OED does not have the term "athame" in it is simply that
it is a relatively new word.  The older form, attested from the 16th century
on, has an "r" in the first syllable, usually "arthame," but sometimes with
some variation in the last syllable, e.g. "arthanay."  It is found in some
-- by no means all -- manuscripts of the several forms of the [Greater] Key
of Solomon.  English texts of the Key are secondary, and represent transla-
tions from French or Italian texts, so you have to track the really early
history of the word in these latter languages.  --  The word shows up *in
print* only in the 20th century, and its first attested use as a "witch's
knife" (instead of a ceremonial magician's knife) is in the French author
Grillot de Givry, whose illustrated history of witchcraft and magic was
published in French in the 1920's and in English translation in the 1930's.
Clark Ashton Smith has it from Grillot de Givry.

The forms without the "r" are no older than Gardner (who spelled it
"athame") and Leek (who spelled it "athalme"), both of which reflect an
English "r-less" pronunciation.  This shows that both Gardner and Leek
became familiar with the word as a spoken form, not a written one, and
supports some oral use of the term in the New Forest Area prior to their
books.  However, this oral use hardly can be older than the 10th
century, since it depends on Grillot de Givry's personal reinter-
pretation of "arthame" as the magical weapon specifically of a
witch, rather than of a magician generally.

Since printed works on witchcraft as a present-day religion become
numerous only in the 1970's, the term hardly was positioned to catch the
eye of a dictionary maker when the OED was being compiled.

Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
From: lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Why the Cross?
Date: 3 Jan 1993 00:27 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan1.222136.6555@Princeton.EDU>, skmurphy@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Sean Keric Murphy) writes...
>uh, Alizard claimed that crucifixion was used only for cases of
>treason?  From what I've been taught/told/etc., crucifixion was a
>punishment for "common criminals" - two thieves were crucified at the
>same time as Jesus, according to the Bible (and please, let's not go
>back into discussions of authenticity of the Bible, ok? :)  By this
>reasoning, Jesus was regarded as no better than a thief, certainly not
>as a threat to the empire.  Granted, usually criminals were <tied>
>during crucifixion, not nailed, but it's the general idea that counts, I
>think...
> 
>Sean Murphy
>skmurphy@phoenix.princeton.edu
> 

Sean, I don't want to be pulled into another argument nor start one, but
I will say...(again and again if necessary)...go back and learn about the
history of the time.  You will find that the views espoused by the man Jesus 
was considered a threat by a great number of people in high places in the
middle east.  And his ideas also went against the common way of thinking
for the Romans.  That is why I have such a problem with Paul....he brought
in many roman ideals into christianity that were not promulgated by the
man Jesus....

Tammy
Trying hard not to start another argument and not succeeding very well by the 
looks of what she as just wrote.....argh!
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:03:56 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec28.181847.8891@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>In article <1hbkceINN3u9@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:
><Munch!>
>>Can someone kindly tell me why cats insist on standing on the keyboard
>>and presenting their fanny while you are trying to type.  This cat has
>>a very limited vocabulary consisting of "hold me", "feed me" "let me out",
>>and "see my butt".  Come to think of it I have known a number of people
>>with the same general view of life.
>
>The reason is elementary, my dear Paul: you are *not* paying due attention
>to your lord & master (mistress?). After all, who are we all working for?
>(Doug Adams had it wrong, in THGTTG; it's cats, not white mice.)
>
>
>	mark, the be-catted

Quite right!  Though in this case Penny and I are ruled, somewhat
benevolently, by a trokia.  None-the-less the rule is absolute with
the exception of the bedroom.  It is not unusual for the bed to be
occupied by 1 husband, 1 wife, 2 cats and a german shepherd right up
until the time to sleep.  However, Penny has this talent known as a
command voice and when she decides it is time to sleep she can clear
that bed of beasties with a single word.  Of course this only is 
effective until we gone to sleep and then they are back.  This doesn't
really bother me unless they decide to do a mass migration under the
blankets.  The last time that happened I tried to pull one of the cats
out and she stuck a claw into the waterbed.  Life got real interesting
at that point.
BB
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Xmas Prezzie
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:29:58 GMT

cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry) writes:
: 
: I was given a book as a Yule present, _Crystal Power_ by Michael
: Smith.  Anyone familiar with it? 

I have started to read the copy that I was given. So far, I am
not overly impressed.

Bill
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:03:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.153829.15809@eye.com> dan@eye.com (Dan Loewus) writes:
>In article <lk3lnrINNsgm@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>>seriously and b) as soon as you lay down a card like Death or the 10 of
>>Swords, you should say something reassuring.  Can anyone add anything
>>else?
>>
>>Dawn
>>
>>Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
>>"Folk Song" by Bongwater
>
>Hello Dawn et al
>
>An idea if its to your taste, maybe different tarrot decks might solve this 
>problem.  I find the MotherPeace torrot to be very gentle no matter how severe 
>the reading and it tends to stay away from harsh realities, such as death.  I
>find the deck very friendly in the pictures ( female scenes ).  There are 
>bummer cards in the deck ( 5 of swords, the sting ) but they don't come out 
>with the harshness that the tradition tarrot does and the truth can be dulled 
>down depending on the strength of personality of the person the reading is for.

I usually use the following correspondence for each suit, and allow my
mind to fill in bad stuff when it wants to:

wands: ideas
swords: actions
cups: emotions
pentacles: assets, skills

I've always told people before readings that Death means only shedding
of old limitations, so that when it comes up, they don't freak.  If,
however, they freak anyway, something else is up.  Another poster (I
forget who) touched on this quite eloquently, so I won't bother.  

>Anyway, I guess I am suggesting using a more earthy deck for reading
>to people who you feel might get upset from a reading which they take as
>bad news or fortune.  

This may be a bit too much responsibility, but you may decline to give a
reading to someone who yout hink isn'tgoing to do much good with it. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:09:38 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

another view of the pentegram was that point-up, a human shape was easy to
see, and point down, the star becomes the horned god (easily converted by 
christians into satan, but..ohwell).. with side points for ears, top points
for horns, and the bottom point for the chinney-chin-chin.

sheilagh
"Hold Christians to their word:  Thou Shalt Not Steal.  Gimme back yuletide,
all hallows season, easter, the number thirteen, the yearly-dying god of
wine/vine.. I'll share, but you gotta consider your *own* rules"
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Here I am .... *yea* !!!!!
Date: 25 Dec 1992 05:26:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


It wouldn't be alt.pagan without Tammy.  ;)

<Chuckle>

Antryg
-- 
Ray Henry   cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu

Sometimes with Bill Shankster in piggyback.  :)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 17:37:00 GMT


 Can you back this with anything verifiable or academic?

----

I really don't see that as all that 
necesarry; if you've chosen to take 
issue with the attributions Tammy 
makes for the words "Wicca" or "Witch"
is it all that likely that she'll be 
able to cite sources you'll consider 
valid?

Scott Cunningham defines "Wicca" as 
"The Wise Ones" in his book _Wicca:
A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner_.
"Witch" and "Wicca" are both from the 
Old English root "Wic", to bend.

-- 
I thank the Goddess for my life,
I thank the Goddess for my loves,
I thank the Goddess for continued blessings.
     -- Z Budapest
Newsgroups: alt.pagan