HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Sign of the times
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:22:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.200254.11118@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
>>>  My husband won't change poopy or peepee diapers unless the baby's butt is
>>>  going to fall off and neither me nor his mother is around.

  Hee, hee, hee, yesterday Tony pooped a big one while I wasn't home
  and my husband had to change the diaper!  :-)

>>>  I also work outside of the home 8 hours+ a day.  And he only

  [nice editing...  you took out the trade (deal) we made where he
  treks to the South Bronx twice a day, walks up 6 flights of urine-
  reeking, bloodstained stairs and drives through pot-holed roads
  and gun-sniping drug-infested streets to take my son to daycare.]

  He also does the groceries in an unsafe neighborhood and goes to
  the laundromat in an unsafe neighborhood.  I can't do these things
  because I would get mugged.  So changing diapers is a small price
  to pay, for these other special services.  In fact, I rather enjoy
  changing diapers because I can play a game with my son, let him
  wipe himself, wash him, and tell him to throw the dirty diaper
  away.  I'm also doing the toilet training.
>>
>>If its any consolation, my sister's husband is like that too. And
>>she makes twice as much money at her job than him.  It drives me crazy
>>to see her do all the housework, cooking, most of the babycare and 
>>work 8+ hours too.  Who do these guys think they are?

  How many of you ladies do the driving to daycare?  I get the feeling
  that many (at least from the people I know at work) more mothers
  do the daycare driving and picking up than the fathers.
>
>I don't know who these guys think they are, but I gotta tell you, I'm
>thoroughly impressed by the ability of these women!  I know that Mary and
>I barely keep up with everything, in spite of us both tackling everything.
>I'm not so sure either of us could handle it alone!  (And, oh boy, when
>any combination of us goes down sick, it's a nightmare!!)

  Yep, I agree with you on that!  I really have to hand it to the
  single parents out there!
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: "my wife and I are pregnant" - NO WAY
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:59:25 GMT

rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo) writes:


>A recent post contained the statememt: "My
>wife and I are pregnant..." There's no point
>in naming the poster, as this is something I
>read/hear quite often.

>Now, I *know* it is meant to convey the fact
>that the man  is involved, concerned, supportive,
>etc.

>It always annoyed me on principle, because it's
>inaccurate. But now that I've carried a pregnancy
>to term, it makes me crazy.

>So here's a message to all non-pregnant partners of
>pregnant women: YOU ARE NOT PREGNANT. Your *partner*
>is pregnant. She is experiencing all kinds of emotions,
>sensations, aches and pains, flutters and kicks that you
>are not experiencing.

>I know that if Michael had used this terminology, not
>only would I not have considered it supportive - I would
>have considered it as trivializing the pregnancy and
>my experiences.

>So, isn't there another way to express your feeling of
>being part of the team?

Dena,

I used the term in one of my recent postings and I GREATLY
resent you chastising me (or anyone else, since you really
weren't singling out me) for saying "my wife and I are pregnant".
In fact, I never used the term before my wife used it.

When my wife got pregnant the first time, I always said, "My
wife is pregnant".  My wife was the one who insisted that I
say "We're pregnant".  She said, "Yes, I know that I'm the
one who's really pregnant, but you help out in any way you can,
you listen to my bitching, you listen to me whine, you rub
my tummy, you give me backrubs, you massage my feet, etc.  So I
feel that you're a very big part of this pregnancy, even though
I'm the one who's actually carrying the child and will have to
deliver."

I DO know that the woman experiences all of the aches, pains
roller-coaster ride of emotions, sickness, etc. and I don't
trivialize it in the least.  In fact, I applaud ANY woman who
goes through a pregnancy.

You can certainly object to your husband saying "We're pregnant",
but please don't scold others without knowing the facts of each
situation or knowing other women's wishes.

allen
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Where is Judy Leedom Tyrer?
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:42:17 GMT
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


Russ Nelson (nelson@cheetah.ece.clarkson.edu) just posted a long response
to something Judy posted in June of 1991; some of his points were excellent, 
and some almost unforgivably stupid, but that's not my point here. My point 
is that not only "tempers may have cooled since then"--as he suggests in his 
note at the top--but Judy may not even see his post. One way to keep her 
from getting angry at his posting--wait til she's gone!

Where is she? Does anyone work in her company, who can check on this? 
Could she be on an extended vacation, or has she lost her net access 
for one reason or another? Mail sent to her address--"judy@locus.com"--
doesn't yield a reply *or* a bounce back. Surely misc.kids' most 
argumentative daily poster, who has often had some of the most 
interesting information to share, wouldn't just up and quit posting for 
good.

(I wanted to talk to her about the Parenting Books Recommendations FAQ.
Does anyone have her original version, who can forward it to me?)

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: **> DISCOVERY TOYS <**
Date: 20 Dec 92 00:38:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: nope

In article <1992Dec18.211731.4564@ntmtv> jmartin@ntmtv.UUCP (Jeff Martin) writes:
...
>
>I don't know how people like the woman at the pool could shamelessly hawk
>their products when I am trying to enjoy my family and possibly meet other
>parents with like aged kids in a purely social setting. IF I WANT TO GO
>TOY SHOPPING I'LL GO TO TOY-R-US NOT THE SWIMMING POOL!!!!!

It is simple, really.  It is her job.

>
>I hope I have enlighted DISCOVERY toy agents rather than offended them but
>I'm sure I've done more of the latter.  Under most circumstances I'm sure they
>are nice people and caring parents. But when they start unsolicited sales 
>pitches in social setting I feel they have violated my trust and humiliated
>themselves.

Why do you feel that way?  The only way your trust might have
been violated would have been if you had invited this person
yourself.  As far as humiliation, well, you're the one who is
upset.

Shy, retiring people will, in general, not do well in direct
sales.  It is going to far, though, to be wearing steel toed
shoes at a swimming pool.


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: lisa@elc11.icase.edu (Lisa A. Leutenegger)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: To Tammy Vandenboom
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:22:56 GMT
Organization: ICASE/NASA Langley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: elc11.icase.edu


Sorry for the bandwidth - Tammy my mail to you bounces back.


Thank you Tammy!  I'm so glad the book was reprinted - it may not
be in the shape of a big lion anymore but it is still the best
book in print :-) 

Could you send me the publisher and ISBN number?  It will make
getting a copy much easier.  Thanks.

			---lisa (the smiley mom has 1 baby friend)

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: "my wife and I are pregnant" - NO WAY
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:57:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.195925.558@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
>rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo) writes:
>
>
>>A recent post contained the statememt: "My
>>wife and I are pregnant..."
>>[...]
>>It always annoyed me on principle, because it's
>>inaccurate. But now that I've carried a pregnancy
>>to term, it makes me crazy.
>
>>So here's a message to all non-pregnant partners of
>>pregnant women: YOU ARE NOT PREGNANT. Your *partner*
>>is pregnant.
>>[...]
>
>[...]
>When my wife got pregnant the first time, I always said, "My
>wife is pregnant".  My wife was the one who insisted that I
>say "We're pregnant".  She said, "Yes, I know that I'm the
>one who's really pregnant, but you help out in any way you can,
>[...]

Yeah, "We're pregnant" is a little awkward, or as Dena points out, technically
inaccurate, but I always viewed it as a shortened version of "We're
expecting a baby", which, while technically more accurate, seems like
a bit of a euphemism to me.

Is there a one-word description for the couple expecting a baby?

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:20:48 GMT

In <2441@gandalf.intel.com> linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:

>In article <1992Dec15.181822.27762@newstand.syr.edu>, kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>|> As a circumcised male who likes the ease of maintenance which circumcision
>|> affords, who has found that it has not interfered with my sex life, who did
>|> *not* spend a lot of time looking at other guys' penises in the shower, and
>|> who intends to make sure that if our child is circumcised if it's a boy, I
>|> have to ask isn't there anyone else out there willing to defend it?  Doesn't
>|> anyone else have anything *good* to say about it?  Surely I'm not the only
>|> one who feels this way?
>|> 

>Well, I am not a male, and I don't have a son.  I do have a circumsized brother
>and a circumsized husband.  

>My dad, on the other hand, was born at home 64 years ago.  He was not 
>circumsized and went through most of his life uncircumsized.  However, at the
>age of 56, due to medical complications caused from being uncircumsized, he HAD
>to get circumsized.  OUCH!!  For several weeks, he had wished he had been
>circumsized as a baby.  

>***************************************************
>	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
>	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com


Would this mean my uncle age 64 who just had his appendix removed should
have had it done at birth? He said it was quite painful.

How about my Mom who has had a breast removed? Would have been easier
cheaper to get it done at birth.

Really.. this is a totally illogical argument for routine circumcision.
Millions of men in Europe die with their foreskins on not because of them!

Gary

--
                       Gary E. Davis /WQ1F/
              Dpt. Electrical Engineering and Com Sciences
              University of Vermont @ Burlington
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lisam@Data-IO.COM (Lisa Matheson)
Subject: Re: Secrets--Cute things they say, almost 5 yr. old
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:44:43 GMT


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: johnm@oakhill.sps.mot.com (John Morris)
Subject: **> DISCOVERY TOYS <**
Keywords: toys
Reply-To: johnm@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:55:42 GMT

(WARNING: This is about toys, but it resembles a sales pitch at the end.)

I'm new at this parent thing (our daughter is almost 6 months old and is 
the CUTEST girl on the planet, in her Daddy's humble opinion! ;-)

My wife and I have really gotten into finding toys and things that will
stimulate little Morgan and help her develop & learn and have FUN!  While you 
can find a few good toys at Toy's-"R"-Us, we were disappointed at how many of
them were just advertisements for a Saturday cartoon or movie! (Don't get me
wrong, my wife LOVES Mickey Mouse and Disney, but these days's they'll put the
Little Mermaid or a Ninja Turtle on ANYTHING and sell it.) Maybe it's just me,
but I'd rather have my daughter get interested in building things or learning
than in playing with a doll that can go to the bathroom in a little plastic
toilet with a "real flushing noise"...

Well, my wife went to a Discovery Toy party and just fell in love with what 
she saw. You really have to see them and play with them to fully apprectiate 
them, but they are really neat. My wife got so hooked, that she signed up to 
sell them, mainly so we could get the toys cheaper (and we got a great demo kit
of toys at about 1/3 of their price!) We probably won't have many toy parties
(life is too hectic right now), but we can take orders from their catalog.

In case you haven't heard of them, Discovery Toys has a line of developmental, 
educational, and just plain FUN toys, books & games for all ages (from infant on up). 
Discovery Toys products are not sold in stores, only through their network of 
representatives nationwide. Toys can  be purchased at a demonstration ("party") 
OR you can order from their CATALOG anytime! They ship UPS anywhere in the U.S.
- including Guam, Virgin Islands, etc)

Anyhow, if you'd like to see a catalog, send me some e-mail. 
(Having a 6 month old, I don't normally get to read the net much... :-)

Or if you've got some Discovery Toys already, let me know which ones your child
loves the best! (Morgan LOVES her "Gummy Yummy" teether and her elephant rattle!)


---
---
John M. Morris				e-mail: johnm@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Motorola Semiconductor 			phone:  (512) 891-3400
Austin, Texas				fax:    (512) 891-8315
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:26:15 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1992Dec17.235439.23455@chiton.ucsd.edu>, martin@chiton.ucsd.edu 
(Martin Olivera) writes:
> ...As she was doing that and I, the
> proud father, was taking zillion pictures per second of the whole event, I 
> happened to hear these horrendous screams coming from the next room. I could see
> through a window a doctor (I guess) and a nurse performing a circumcision on a
> newborn. Neither parent was present. The baby was placed on a plastic frame
> contoured as a newborn body, his pelvic area and torso were covered by a white 
> sheet, except for a little hole through which his tiny penis was showing, 
> his hands and feet were strapped to the sides, and the doctor was cutting while 
> the nurse was holding the baby's head. For the brief moment I payed attention to
> what was going on I felt sick to my stomach just listening to the baby's 
> screams. If I ever had a doubt about circumcising Tommy, that took care of it.
> 
> If you are about to be a parent and have doubts about circumcision (i.e., you 
> can easily go either way), I'd suggest you try to witness the performance of 
> one. It may help you decide.

This is unnecessarily cruel. There is no reason not to use a local anesthetic. 

Anyone wishing to have a son circumcized should call around to find a
circumcision specialist who has the parents hold the baby for the operation, and
uses a local anesthetic. Under these circumstances, the baby does not complain
much, and what complaining he does do has to do with having the clothes off or
being held still, not being hurt.

There are reasons why people may choose to avoid circumcision, and other
reasons why others may choose to have it done. No child should be subjected
to a hospital circumcision in which no anesthesia is used and the parents are
not present, in my opinion. On the other hand, some posters (I'm *not* talking
about Martin Olivera, who had a good point) should get a life and worry about 
something other than the penises of other people's children. 

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Teresa Creech)
Subject: Re: Sign of the times
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:56:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.200254.11118@clpd.kodak.com>
staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
 
>>>  My husband won't change poopy or peepee diapers unless the baby's butt is
>>>  going to fall off and neither me nor his mother is around.
>>>  I also work outside of the home 8 hours+ a day.  And he only
>>
>>If its any consolation, my sister's husband is like that too. And
>>she makes twice as much money at her job than him.  It drives me crazy
>>to see her do all the housework, cooking, most of the babycare and
>>work 8+ hours too.  Who do these guys think they are?
>
>I don't know who these guys think they are, but I gotta tell you, I'm
>thoroughly impressed by the ability of these women!  I know that Mary and
>I barely keep up with everything, in spite of us both tackling everything.
>I'm not so sure either of us could handle it alone!  (And, oh boy, when
>any combination of us goes down sick, it's a nightmare!!)
>
>Ken
>---
>staffan@serum.kodak.com
 
My sisters husband WAS like that when their TWINS were born.  My sister
did everything for the babies and worked.  The twins are now 14 and they
have a really good relationship with their mother and a good (but very
formal and somewhat superficial) relationship with their father.  My
sister now has a 1 year old.  My brother-in-law has realized that he
missed out on something when the twins were little.  I don't think that
he has ever changed a diaper (especially a poopie one), but he does help
with the baby.  I don't think that he wants to make the same 'mistake'
again.
 
My sisters husband was VERY immature when they were married.  I think that
she felt that if she pushed him too hard, it would destroy the marriage.
I guess she felt the marriage was worth all the hard work she had to do.
 
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: "my wife and I are pregnant" - NO WAY
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:23:55 GMT

jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:

>|> I think the emotion conjured up by 'we're pregnant' is unfairness.  While
>|> going through a very difficult and complicated pregnancy, I often wished it
>|> was my husband and not me who was pregnant 

>Isn't that funny?  I think pregnancy and baby-having is so cool and such a 
>thrill, I've actually felt SORRY for men that it was something they couldn't 
>do, and I've felt SMUG that my body was so much more "interesting" and 
>"complex", etc, etc.  It is only AFTER I have the baby that the fairness/
>unfairness issue surfaces for me.

Maybe you could take the issue up with God, Buddha, Mohammed, etc. next time
you see him/her.  Who knows?  Maybe he/she will change the present methods.
=)  =)

allen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: kim@m44.unm.edu
Subject: Giftedness/Language
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 19:39:11 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center, Albuquerque, NM
Reply-To: kim@m44.unm.edu

Dear Group:

First, I acknowledge that all of us can post messages that start
"Giftedness/something", since all our children are exceptional.

Our daughter seems to be showing some proficiency with language at 1.5 y.o.,
and we thought it might be fun to try and slip in a little French while she is
at a stage where she won't know the difference.  I had once read/heard that two
or more languages are more easily learned during this early time than later.

We want to do this only if it is enjoyable to her and are trying not to have a
lot of ego tied into it.

Has anyone tried this?  What is it like?  Any suggestions or extra reading that
can help make it a worthwhile experience for us?

Daniel Kim
KIM@FLOVAX.LANL.GOV
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: leeba@mot.com (Leeba Salzman)
Subject: cute things kids say (5yo)
Reply-To: leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Communications Israel Ltd., Tel Aviv
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:49:18 GMT

Last night my 5 yo (who was playing Mother) said to her younger (almost 4 yo) sister, 

Sheera (5yo): "You are impossible," (accompanied by a sigh worthy of Sara Bernhardt.)  
Me:           "If she's impossible, what are you."  
Sheera:       "I'm Possible, of course!"

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lcheap@cac.washington.edu (Laurel Cheap )
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:56:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.142721.9611@nynexst.com>, clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

|>   I agree.  People can all have opinions.  Only I feel that parents
|>   should have to watch their children get circumcision.  Apparently
|>   people who do it for religious reasons do watch and are comfortable
|>   with it.  But people who get it done in the hospital don't watch,
|>   and don't know what goes on. 
. . .

OK, I was going to stay out of this one but I can't let this one go without
a comment.

We chose to have our son circumcised for reasons that are our own and may
not be everyone else's.  We had it done *in the hospital* and we *watched*.
I think the above statements need a few qualifications.

For those who are interested, the procedure was quite short.  Brendan's 
clothes were removed and he was strapped to a device with holders for his
arms and legs.  The OB took out some medical equipment and placed it over
Brendan's penis.  He inserted a skinny device under the foreskin and moved
it around to make sure that it was completely detached.  He slipped another
device under the detached foreskin and then cut around the edge.  There was
very little bleeding.

I don't remember exactly how long the procedure took or if it caused
Brendan incredible pain.  He started to really cry as soon as his clothes
were removed and immediately fell asleep after they were put back on.  His
cries became a little more shrill as he was being cut but only for that
moment.  I was gritting my teeth and holding back tears through the whole
thing feeling guilty that we were causing him such discomfort but I'd do
it again if given the choice.

A parent has to make the choices that are what they think are best for
their child given their history, family situation and personal beliefs.
No one can criticise a decision that was based on information they don't
even know about.

-Laurel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laurel Cheap           University of Washington   lcheap@u.washington.edu
Information Systems    Seattle, Washington  USA   a.k.a. Brendan's mommy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ramon@convex.com (Ramon Dominguez)
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:13:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Arts Babblative and Scribblative
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <2441@gandalf.intel.com> linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:
=>My dad, on the other hand, was born at home 64 years ago.  He was not 
=>circumsized and went through most of his life uncircumsized.  However, at the
=>age of 56,due to medical complications caused from being uncircumsized, he HAD
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=>to get circumsized.  OUCH!!  For several weeks, he had wished he had been
=>circumsized as a baby.  

Ah, yes, in the same way that tonsilitis is caused by having tonsils.

-- 
Ramon Dominguez             | "Work is the curse of the drinking class"       
Convex Computer Corporation |                            --Oscar Wilde
ramon@convex.com            | "Ceci n'est pas une .signature file"