Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:47:01 EDT
From:         "Fritz Block, LCF Summer President" <BD32@LAFAYACS.BITNET>
Subject:      Edify (was "Changing Opinions")

Things have been getting pretty hot on this list.  Perhaps I shouldn't
comment, since I haven't been on the front lines like Darren, Marty,
et al., but maybe being relatively uninvolved gives me a more detached
view of the discussions which have taken place.

Christians on both sides of several issues are not doing credit to their
cause by the way they voice their opinions.  Are we discussing these
topics in love, or in self-righteous indignation?  Perhaps we should
wait a few hours (or more) before replying to a posting which has
angered us.

I am not picking on Darren; I just happened to come to the above con-
clusion after reading his post.

> I do not know how other people changed their opinions; I do know that it is
> uncharitable to claim that someone flip-flopped on an issue like this just for
> political gain.  Of course, insulting pro-choice people is not at all uncommon
> for CHRISTIAns.  In another article, Mr Helgesen writes about Jesse Jackson:
>
> > Dan Quayle is pro-life.  He opposes the slaughter of innocent babies.
> > Rev. Jackson, who used to be pro-life, flipfloped and is now pro-abortion.
> > He supports the slaughter of innocent unborn babies.
>
> You cannot possibly know how offensive I find this, Mr Helgesen.  Several
> politicians, several people who participate on this list, and I personally
> have all stated repeatedly that we ARE NOT `pro-abortion', and that we DO
> NOT "support the slaughter of innocent unborn babies".

You're right: Marty probably *doesn't* know how offensive you find this.
Wouldn't it be much worse if he DID and yet still made that statement?

I believe Marty's mistake was in not pausing to consider exactly what
his words meant.  I doubt he believes that Jackson *promotes* abortion.
He probably meant that Jackson supports the *right* of others to
"slaughter innocent unborn babies."

This is still a very strong statement.  Perhaps you and other pro-
choicers would still be angered by the wording.  You'll concede that
it's slaughter, since a living being is being killed, right? And barring
the theology of original sin, they certainly are innocent.  One might
disagree with the term "unborn baby," but I hope that you can disagree
and still find there's at least a good case for considering a fetus as
an unborn baby.

> (This is one of the things that makes me doubt the "facts" proffered by the
>  pro-life camp.  They can't even get their titles straight, so I am dubious
>  that they are any more careful with other "facts".  Not too long ago during
>  a debate on MacNeil/Lehrer I watched a woman say "I am not pro-abortion, I
>  am pro-choice", and then I watched her opponent say "The pro-abortion people
>  are ..."  Somebody that incapable of understanding her native language has
>  no business lecturing me about medical evidence.)

He likely understood her native language, but due to the emotion of the
issue continued to use the term "pro-abortion."  It's a natural response
when one is vociferously against abortion and considers herself to be
"anti-abortion."  We tend to chose the opposite of our side as the
label of our opponents, e.g., anti-war activists call Bush "pro-war."

> I know that it is too much to ask the pro-life people to extend common
> courtesy to others, but I had expected better from you.  By misrepresenting
> Rev Jackson, you may get nice rhetoric but you sacrifice your credibility.

You KNOW that it is too much to ask the pro-life people to extend common
courtesy to others?  How do you know this?  Are all pro-life people
discourteous?  To be pro-life is to be discourteous?  Prejudice of *any*
kind is insidious, Darren.  I'm a very strong "pro-life person" who
attends peaceful marches and publishes articles on the subject in the fellowship
newsletter and the college newspaper here at Lafayette.  I take issue
with your supposition that I and my fellow pro-lifers at Lafayette are
discourteous.

> You have said that you are a librarian, and you have spoken well of properly
> using logic.  That caused me to overestimate you, a mistake I will not make
> again.

I don't think this is necessary, Darren.  Your expression of prejudice,
if I thought it represented you accurately and wasn't just the result of
frustration at dealing with your opponents' untempered responses to an
emotional issue, would give me good cause to believe that I over-
estimated you.  But I don't believe that.

> I won't ask for an apology, because I have come to understand that pro-life
> Christians don't care how offensive they are.  You, Kerry Stephenson, and
> several other people are all set to excommunicate any follower of Jesus who
> does not accept your opinions as Gospel.  And Inquisitors never apologise.

"Pro-life Christians don't care how offensive they are . . . "  Hmm...
Sorry, but you're breaking your own rules again.  You "have come to
understand" generalizations about pro-lifers in the same way that white
supremecists come to "understand" generalizations about minorities.
(No, I'm NOT saying that you're akin to white supremecists; I'm simply
using their mistake as an example of the fallacious reasoning that
leads to prejudice.)

Surely you don't think that pro-lifers as a group do not care how
offensive they are.  They are many pro-lifers and pro-choicers who don't
care how offensive they are, and there are many who are the exact
opposite.  It seems you've come in contact almost exclusively with
knowingly offensive pro-lifers.  That's still no excuse to brand the
whole group.

> Now you should write one titled "Marty Helgesen did not lie", explaining why
> you made such abusive and insulting claims about another Christian -- and, by
> extension, all other followers of Jesus who don't accept your reasoning.

Please Darren, think about the insulting claims you made about your
fellow Christians who don't accept your reasoning on the issue of
abortion rights.

Let's all calm down and try earnestly to make every word edifying to the
listener.

*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
* Fritz Block      "And though you try hard to fight it/you feel    *
* bd32@lafayacs     the rushing of emotions start/You're in love    *
* 215-250-8031      with a beautiful lady/and you hope she doesn't  *
* Lafayette Col.    break your heart."          -- Larry Norman     *
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
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