HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 06:08:09 GMT
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Apr15.155226.15215@hellgate.utah.edu>
allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington) writes:
>>Given that Chamonix has road signs announcing "Welcome to Chamonix" in
>>French, Italian, English and Japanese
>>Japanese alpinists, who will no doubt have started as rock climbers.
>>Judging by their propensity to buy one-way tickets to Europe and then
>>climb until either dead or repatriated on their insurance, some of them
>>are fairly hard !  ^^^^

>Seems to be a pretty hard attitude - oh well Suki is dead nothing we
>can do about it, might as well finish the climb and deal with the mess
>latter.

Yes, but this was something noted by Dave Roberts in Outside's
The Failure of American Women's Climbing where he noted that the difference
between "men's" expeditions and "women's" expeditions was that men
(American and other countries) rationalized that their dead companion
"would have wanted them to go on" and well let's finish the climb after
maybe a day of mourning (average) whereas "women's" expeditions would
pack up after a fatality.  Roberts and others noted that this impacted
future funding sources with the "lack of success" for expeditions affecting
all expeditions.  That is a part of "drive" and priorities.

I liked Patey's "A Short Walk with Whillians" where they encounter a
group of Japanese climbers after another retreat:
	"Yep, we'll never see those blokes again."
No big walls in japan.  I think there was a nice AAJ article on Japanese
rock.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Knee pads
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:17:32 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:

>>Maybe its just old fuddy-duddy traditionalism, but I always thought that
>>scars on the knees were a sign of bad technique...
>
>You are probably in the Alps by now......  Comment was similar to Robbins
>comment to Patey on hands and aid climbing.  Scars on knees means:
>climbing in shorts (last time I did that was 1972, never again) at Joshua
>Tree, or thrutching up off-widths/squeeze chimneys.

If its warm enough, I climb in shorts. If its not warm enough to climb in
shorts, I ski or cave.

Andy.
From: AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Ropes Courses
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:07:33 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning) writes:

>
>ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau) writes:
>
>   What about damaging biners by cliping into bolt hangers??
>
>well, if you look at a sport climbers rack, you will see that the
>biners are worn from this. The reason that the wear is only mild is
>that there is relatively little motion or abrasion.

If you look at a vertical caver's karabiners, you will find that there is
a considerable wear problem - this is precisely because these krabs bear the
climber's full weight for the duration of the ascent of the section of rope
below the bolt (which could be up to 500 feet in the US, perhaps more in
Europe). Given that there are usually several cavers in a party, and a cave
may stay rigged for several trips, you can see why cavers use steel krabs
or maillons rapides. This frequently means using stainless steel hangers
too. The krab on a bolt used as a running belay on a rock-climb may rattle
a great deal, but at this stage its not under load, so there is very little
wear. Do be aware of the problem when on a big wall, though - every climber
that prusiks to the belay will be causing wear just like the cavers do.

The best solution, of course, is only to clip gear you have placed yourself,
ensuring that you use 13mm steel screwgates at all times. This saves you
getting too far off the ground, too :-).

Andy.
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Acclimatisation (wsa Re: Europe bound => The Matterhorn)
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:17:15 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <3275@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk> leaver@prg.ox.ac.uk (Andrew Leaver) writes:
>
>I don't think it's just that the higher you go, the harder it is to
>go higher. I have found that the 4000m mark is for many people a point
>below which they feel fine, but above which (when unacclimatised) they
>feel bad. About 18 months ago a medical friend sent me an article from
>the British Medical Journal on Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS), otherwise
>known as altitude sickness. Research was done on climbers in the Alps,
>and the result was a graph plotting the percentage of climbers showing
>symptoms of AMS against altitude, i.e.:
...
>As you can see, it's roughly exponential, and the `knee' of the curve is
>at about 12000ft. The conclusion of the research was therefore that
>the 12000ft line _is_ significant - above it, many people suffer from AMS;

I agree that things get much tougher at about that elevation.  Climbing
on the 14000' Diamond on Longs Peak seems an order of magnitude more difficult
than on the adjacent 12000' Chasm View Wall, for instance

-Wayne
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Review of ATC from BD
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:35:58 GMT
Organization: intel corporation


	I picked up a ATC for US $12.95 at a local climbing shop. After
spending a week using it at Red Rocks and Joshua Tree, I have found the
device to be the best Rappel and belay device that I have used. I
also own a tuber II and figure 8. I lent the device to everyone I
climbed with and they all agreed that it was the best belay/rappel
device that they had used. I tried it with ropes ranging in diameter from
9.8mm to 11mm. The 11mm was slower on rappel but did not bind. And on
several rappels I got the hated twist of rope between my hand and the
device and it did not casue any trouble. 
	If you are looking for a great belay/rappel device, pick up an
ATC. They might be hard to get since they seem to be sold out at most
stores.

-Ed-               

PS I heard that the new Jtree guide book will be out in June. The Red
Rocks guide is out. With the Red Rocks guide look at the maps with a
grain of salt. This artist did not do a good job for the map to the Mass
production wall. And the Big diagional that you see on the way to Mass
production wall, and Hall of fame is drawn the wrong way in the book.
Good luck with it. I had fun getting lost. 


you might not be able to fgi    
--
Michael Brodesky
Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!tdcad!brodesky
Last seen at Pinnalces, Roofman flying through the air.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: WHITLOCK@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Reid E. Whitlock)
Subject: DIRECTIONS TO GREAT FALLS CLIMBING AREA IN VIRGINIA
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:12:33 GMT

Anybody know the turnoff from the Georgetown Pike to get to the parking lot 
for the climbing area at Great Falls ? I'm going early saturday and need a 
quick reply if anyone knows.

Also, can you camp overnight in the park ?


Thanks in advance, 

Reid

all replies to: whitlockr@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: phil@oetl1.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: ACCLIMATIZATION WINTER/ALTITUDE
Keywords: ACCLIMATIZATION
Organization: LMSC Santa Cruz, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 18:10:25 GMT


	This last January on a Mt. Raineer ascent I became nauseated the 
first day out with dry heaves which pretty much lasted the entire five day 
trip. Both of the team leaders seemed puzzled tho not alarmed by the 
symptoms as I kept hydrated, never lost my strength and easily hauled the 
loads. Most of the time was spent in the vicinity of Camp Muir however I 
just couldn't seem to keep any significant solid food down, carbo's, 
protiens, fats or otherwise. The opposite end of the plumbing ran just as 
loose.
	I easily spend time at higher elevations with similar loads in the 
Serria Nevada, Panamints, etc. A 45 year "old guy" maybe I should just "give 
up" trying high snow and ice but dno't really want to! These symptoms have 
also followed me on Shasta but to a lesser degree. 
	Anyone in rec.climbing with similar trouble, cure short of the 38 
cal solution let me know,

					Thnx Phil
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: climb ratings
From: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 22:58:53 GMT
Reply-To: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Organization: Task Management Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand

In article <1992Apr2.033954.5564@ccu.umanitoba.ca> ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau) writes:
>Can any one tell me what the different climb rating systems are and what
>ratings they use, ie French system, US system, etc...  Also where these
>scales meet, or are equivalent to each other.

Yes, I can, but I won't.  Well... ok, but my list is at home.  I'll post
it tomorrow.  It includes US, Aus, UK, Fra & UIAA ratings for rock only.
Could someone else please post info on alpine and WI ice grades, and any
others.  Ta.
(Eugene - maybe a FAQ for this?)

-- 
-Hugh Grierson--hugh@fivegl.co.nz----------Go fast or go home----------------
-Task Management Ltd-Auckland-New Zealand-Ph:+64.9.5206109-Fax:+64.9.5206101-
From: allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:52:25 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: rec

AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington) writes:

>Given that Chamonix has road signs announcing "Welcome to Chamonix" in
>French, Italian, English and Japanese - you can bet there are lots of
>Japanese alpinists, who will no doubt have started as rock climbers.
>Judging by their propensity to buy one-way tickets to Europe and then
>climb until either dead or repatriated on their insurance, some of them
>are fairly hard !  ^^^^
>                    ^^
                     ^^

This reminds me of a story a friend told while climbing in the alps.
They somewhere in the middle of a climb when they notice something
falling.  Much to their dismay it was a Japanesse climber that they had
seen earlier in the day.  They quickly continued up the route to offer
assistance the group (there were four Janpenesse climbers in their
party).  Sometime latter they caught up to the group eating lunch.
They asked they knew that on of their partners had fallen to his death.
They said they knew and did not seem too upset, they were going to
continue on to the summit and "pick" him up on the way back down.

Seems to be a pretty hard attitude - oh well Suki is dead nothing we
can do about it, might as well finish the climb and deal with the mess
latter.

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah, USA


"Ethics are bit a like an erection, no matter how well intended they are prone
 to sudden deflation"
 
        Dougal Haston - refering to climbing ethics.



Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kochte@scivax.stsci.edu
Subject: Clipper City Rock Gym (various)
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:22:24 GMT

Clipper City Rock Gym IS open!

Apparently the reason it (along with a major portion of the rest of
the Industrial Park) was shut down was due to an over-enthusiastic
fire marshall (new to his job). He had his own preconceived notions
of what things should be and hadn't bothered to check the building
codes to see what reality is. He went back after he shut down most
of the Industrial Park and looked at the building codes and realized
the error. So, as of Tuesday, April 7th, the rock gym was reopened
once again. 

I won't go into elaborations of the progress that they have made there
in the last couple of weeks, but will state that they are getting new
hours starting April 15th:

Monday - Thursday -> 11:00a - 12:00 mid
Friday -> 10:00a - 12:00 mid
Saturday -> 8:00a - 12:00 mid
Sunday -> 12:00 noon - 8:00p

Also, come thursday, April 23rd, there will be a slide show put on by
Chris Wagner about AmaDlam & Shivling at 7:30p. A $2.00 donation is
requested to help support the 1993 American Kamet Expedition. Also,
you will want to bring your own chair..... (lots of space, not many
chairs).

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: krking@fuji.mitre.org (Kenneth King)
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Keywords: japan
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:16:13 GMT

In article <6283@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> esenther@sparc59.hri.com (Alan Esenther) writes:
>does anyone know what rock-climbing opportunities japan
>has to offer?  does the sport even exist out there?

I lived in Japan from 86-90 and did a lot of climbing.
Mountaineering, ice, and rock climbing are all very 
popular in Japan.  Rock climbs vary from sea cliffs to 
alpine peaks (there are even practice routes around 
the Emperor's Imperial Palace moat).  Numerous climbing 
guides are available.  Although I know of none in English,
one can usually figure out the route and rating from the 
pictures and diagrams.  If anyone is interested in the 
particulars contact me via E mail.

Ken King
MITRE Corp
krking@linus.mitre.org
From: AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: climbing in japan?
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:21:06 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

esenther@sparc59.hri.com (Alan Esenther) writes:

>does anyone know what rock-climbing opportunities japan
>has to offer?  does the sport even exist out there?

Given that Chamonix has road signs announcing "Welcome to Chamonix" in
French, Italian, English and Japanese - you can bet there are lots of
Japanese alpinists, who will no doubt have started as rock climbers.
Judging by their propensity to buy one-way tickets to Europe and then
climb until either dead or repatriated on their insurance, some of them
are fairly hard !

Andy.
From: parilis@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gary Parilis)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: White Mountains climbing info ?
Keywords: info requested
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:44:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Some friends and I will be spending the Memorial Day long weekend in
New Hampshire, just south of the White Mountains.  I'd like to take
advantage of the proximity to a new climbing area, and spend at least
one day climbing.  
Can somebody clue me into where the good areas are, how to get there,
etc.   I'm not yet equipped to lead, so I'll specifically need info on
climbs that can be top-roped, though I know that most of the stuff up
there is multi-pitch.

I've picked up a copy of Webster's guide to NH climbs, but I haven't
really been thru it in any detail yet.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanx,
- Gary
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Mt. Hood - Climbing Info Request
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:33:00 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

ddj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Josephson) writes:
>I am looking for some information about climbing Mount Hood in Oregon.

>I found one book (A Climbing Guide to Oregon, by N. Dodge)
>which has some info about the climb, but I would like to find some others, if
>anyone has any suggestions.

Jeff Thomas has a new book on the Oregon Cascades coming out soon, but
probably before your trip. (Call Chessler books in CO they may already
have it).  Unfortunately, the Dodge book is the only book out.

>I have a couple of specific questions also:
>
>Are crampons a necessity at this time of year?  I have Sherpa Snowshoes which
>have the 'fanged' Tucker bindings, and was wondering if I could use those.
>This would save me from having to borrow/rent crampons.

Crampons are typically necessary for the last 500 feet or so.  The
Hog's Back up to the chutte can be ascended with out them in the right
conditions.  For the chute however, you will probably want them.  The
angle is approximately 45 degrees.  The last time I was up there I
skied from Timberline to the chutte is 3 hours and turned around in the
chutte because I did not have my crampons (let alone an ice ax - I was
out for a quick tour and thought I would make a quick trip to the summit).
By May the bergshrud is starting to open up - it splits the hogs back
at about one third the way up.  Eary season you can just jump across
it.  Be careful coming down - people have slipped and fallen it and died.

Because of the Pacific storms that come in, the top of the Mountain is
typically rimmed up.  Thus it the exposed upper slopes are typically
icy or very hard snow.

>What are the snow and weather conditions typically like at the end of April?

They can be perfect or they can be terrible.  If your are not familar
with the route to you should take a compass.  Descending the mountain
in a white can be a bit tricky.  People have died from lossing their way.
It not advisable to ascend the mountain if there is a clound cap
either.

>Is Jack Nicholson still running around up there :^) ? 

Jack ain't back -


On a side note, Mt Hood is second to MT Fuji, in ascents and deaths.

Hope this helps,

Allen R. Sanderson

"Ethics are bit a like an erection, no matter how well intended they are prone
 to sudden deflation"
 
        Dougal Haston - refering to climbing ethics.
From: AWaddington@acorn.co.uk (Andy Waddington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Knee pads was Trip Report: Approaches and Offwidths
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:32:30 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:

>... I am at least Ms. KP (KneePads). Net people have identified me at the
> gym by them.  I wear them on all types of climbs; they don't help my
> climbing, but they keep me from adding scars to the collection already on
> my knees. I overheat easily and prefer shorts when climbing on hot summer
> days...

Maybe its just old fuddy-duddy traditionalism, but I always thought that
scars on the knees were a sign of bad technique...

Andy.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Knee pads 
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 01:39:13 GMT
Distribution: rec

In article <13828@acorn.co.uk> AWaddington@acorn.co.uk
(Andy Waddington) writes:
>Maybe its just old fuddy-duddy traditionalism, but I always thought that
>scars on the knees were a sign of bad technique...

You are probably in the Alps by now......  Comment was similar to Robbins
comment to Patey on hands and aid climbing.  Scars on knees means:
climbing in shorts (last time I did that was 1972, never again) at Joshua Tree,
or thrutching up off-widths/squeeze chimneys.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Climbing Rope Recommendations
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:46:57 GMT

In article <54855@hydra.gatech.EDU>,
ts24@prism.gatech.EDU (SHANDS,TIMOTHY G) writes:
>I am a beginning climber and am interested (at present) in top rop climbing.  I
>also am interested in vertical caving.  I would like to buy one rope which can
>be used for both sports.  The rope I am considering is by PMI and is a static
>rope with little stretch and pretty stiff.  I understand this rope is used
>frequently in caving.  Is this also a good rope for top rope climbing?  Is it
>too stiff?  I do not intend to use it for lead climbing and, therefore, the
>low stretch and the lack of fall ratings isn't too important (I guess?).  Are
>there other ropes I should consider?  Is there some reason a static rope
>shouldn't be used for top rope climbing?  (P.S. This is my first post.)
>--
>SHANDS,TIMOTHY G
>Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>uucp:     ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ts24
>Internet: ts24@prism.gatech.edu

I would be a little nervous about a static rope for top roping.
Even a two or three foot drop can be uncomfortable with no
elasticity in the rope though it's probably not going to be
injurious.  If you _DO_ try this use extra good anchors - the
elasticity of a climbing rope is intended to reduce the force on
anchors as well as on a climber.

I don't know any climbers who use a static rope for this purpose.
There is a certain amount of conservatism amoung climbers where
their necks are concerned.
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Mt. Hood - Climbing Info Request
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:01:48 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1992Apr6.103301.2477@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

>Jeff Thomas has a new book on the Oregon Cascades coming out soon, but

It's already out though I don't know about availability in
Colorado.

>By May the bergshrud is starting to open up - it splits the hogs back
>at about one third the way up. 

It's already open, widely, this year although if the weather of this
last weekend continues it may close again (in which case avalanche
danger will increase dramatically).  We've had a most unusual
"winter."

>                            Eary season you can just jump across
>it.  Be careful coming down - people have slipped and fallen it and died.

True.  Or there was the fellow who, on leap day this year decided to
leap the 'schrund.  He caught a crampon but will probably climb
again after his broken leg heals.

>They can be perfect or they can be terrible.  If your are not familar
>with the route to you should take a compass.  Descending the mountain
>in a white can be a bit tricky.  People have died from lossing their way.

Yes, the "Mt. Hood triangle."  I forgot to mention this in my posting.  
The problem is that on the standard ascent the route is not *quite* 
straight up the mountain.  You think you are going directly upward but 
in reality you are traversing slightly to the left.  If visibility 
deteriorates people then tend to go straight down the fall line.
This leads to the cliffs of Mississippi Head and Zig-Zag Canyon.  A
couple of years ago near July 4 a very experienced climber fell into
this trap.  Fortunately he was able to manage the cliffs etc. and
finally came out to the highway about 4 AM.  He caught a ride with a
Timberline Lodge employee who also told us (searchers) he was back.
The deputy called his rather distraught wife with the good news just
as she was leaving to come to search headquarters.

The opposite error can be equally dangerous.  Sometimes people go
too far east trying to avoid the above problem.  This was the
mistake made by the Oregon Episcopal School climbers.  It leads to
White River Glacier with its (potentially hidden) cravasses.

There is a warning about the "triangle" in the climbers registration
area.  Read and pay attention.

On a more positive note, as far as I know Mt. Hood is the only place
with "mountain locator units" available.  They amount to something
similar to the transmitters used for tracking wild animals for
research purposes.  If you carry one and activate it there will be
no search, only a rescue since we can go right to where you are with
our receiver and directional antenna.  Be aware that this does not
initiate a rescue operation, it is only useful when the sheriff's
department is notified of a problem through more standard means.
These units can be rented ($5.00 each) locally at REI, Oregon
Mountain Community, Mountain Shop, and at Value Inn in Government
Camp.  Value Inn is open 24 hours/day.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing