From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Violence update 30.09.92 (re: Heiner Biesel)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:32:35 GMT

lbs@tkmhp4.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski) writes:

>In article <1992Oct9.183355.13005@javelin.sim.es.com> biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:

...[re: development of rocket technology at Peenemuende]...

>>I am the beneficiary of that technology, as are you. I, and my

> Neither my family nor I are beneficiaries of the action 
>of the Nazi government and the German Army in WW2. 

I don't recall claiming that anyone was the beneficiary of the actions
of the Nazi government or the German army. The technology developed at
Peenemuende - and more importantly, the technical talent - was taken
almost in toto by the Americans (what was left was taken by the Russians)
and used to develop rocketry in east and west. Presumably you benefit from
satellites and such.

>Are you saying that if not for the war and the German scientists,
>we would never be able to send a rocket to space? 

No, but it would have taken a longer time. My guess, perhaps 5-10
years.

>And what was the intention of the V2 development? To share
>the secrets of the rocket technology with scientists elsewhere?
>To contribute to the global peace and well-being of people
>in other countries?

Of course, just as it was the role of the KGB to distribute sweets
to the children of liberated counties. You see, the war was just
an icky misunderstanding...

> We heard about other ingenuous German scientists, like Dr. Mengele.

I don't think Dr. Mengele could by any stretch of the imagination be
termed ingenuous; even calling him a scientist is reaching.

> Thank God Nazis lost the war.

Amen.


>>government, have little moral standing to pr. I only wounded
>you a little so let's focus on thisotest those who wish to
>>commemorate the achievement, with all its costs. I may not agree with them,
>>I may see the costs and benefits very differently, but I am not going
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Your text and/or attribution in the above passage has gotten mixed up. Some
of the text you quote was not written by me.

> I noticed that. What were the costs and benefits of WW2? 

40+ million dead, countless wounded and maimed, untold pain, suffering,
misery. The worst cataclysm in history. But you knew that; trying for
rhetorical points? In case you missed it in your pose of righteous
indignation: I do see the costs and benefits of the A-4/V-2 development
differently from those who want to memorialize the event; a public
celebration with Festrede, etc. is IMO the wrong way to memorialize
the technological milestones, precisely because it is likely to
antagonize non-Germans. The world is getting wary of Germany flexing
its new-found muscles, and with good reason, so events like a celebration
at Peenemuende are likely to be seen as more of the same, if not
downright revisionism.

That said, I still do not agree that the US government should issue
public protests about such things, since that will accomplish nothing
except to raise rancor on all sides. Better to have German citizens
and the German government speak up; if they won't there's little point
for the rest of us to do so.
 
Regards,
       H. Biesel