From: rchoy@clarify.com (Raymond Choy)
Subject: Re: This News Group Surprises Me!
Organization: Clarify, San Jose
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:58:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.214331.18524@eng.ufl.edu> edo@ugrad.ee.ufl.edu writes:
>In article <1d5o0jINNog6@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>, jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (Lord Automato) writes:


     ***** STUFFS BEING EDITED TO SAVE BANDWIDTH ******

>|> Be realistic, what do most HK people want? I would say a politically safe and
>|> economically prosperous place to live. For many, it is a place when they were
>|> born, a place where their lives are based on.

Yes, I absolutely agree on this. As a matter of fact, this is what most people
in the world want.

>
>I am not sure about what Deng agree on. It seem to me that He said "nothing
>will be changed for 50 years". Since the Bristish never gave us political
>freedom except social freedom such as the right to visit night club...etc.
>It is very easy and happy for him to promise at that moment.
>Every ruler in world would prefer HKese characters and willing to
>keep them in the same old way.
>The fact is that we are asking him to change to break his promise. 
>Do you think he will appreciate these kind of change especially most of
>us insist openly that we don't like him or his government?
>Do you think he would agree to share the power with someone who always
>enjoy to be his enemy?
>Look! It is the same thing everywhere. For example, president Bush doesn't
>like the US congress and the US congress doesn't like Bush.
>Do you think Bush and the US congress can share power to help each other?

The U.S. Congress and the President DID share power. That's why the Congress
can veto the President bills and vice versa. 


>Why do you think it will be better to lean to the Bristish who just
>use us as a chess?
>

In any politicians point of view, everyone is a chess. The British is nothing
worst than that.

>
>How much you did to make Chinese richer than before?

How much YOU did to make Chinese richer than before? 

>How much you did to protect Chinese when they suffer a external threat from
>Japan, US(in Korea, 50), Soviet(Northern China, 60), Vietname(80)?

How about you? 

>Did our "dear MASTER" help chinese to fight against invasion and robbery?
>Unfortunately, our dear Master commited the same crime against us many years
>ago and still now.
>Before you claim a forign king is better than a chinese ruler, you
>want to find out what is your constribution to your own land?

No, I think you got it wrong. Talk to your parents and anybody that has
suffered from the cultural revolution. Compare the life of the people
from HK to China. Read the history at the beginning of Qing dynasty and
compare the life of the people from Late Ming to Early Qing. Is a Chinese
ruler always better than a foreigner ruler? I will have to think about
it first. 


>Before you claimed the life of a "slave" is better, please look at the life
>of the "slave" during 20,30,50,60,70,80,90. 
>HK will have a democratic government sooner or later.
>But I am tired of being the chess of Bristish. 
>We, as HK chinese desire the respect of being a human, not a chess.
>

Can you state some proofs or incidence that happened to HK that make
you have the feeling of being a "slave" or being treat not as a human?
I might be the lucky one but I have never had this feeling.


>|> The judiciary system that has been established in HK is far better than that in
>|> China. The people who now run the system have better qualities than those who
>|> run China. The People's Congress is just a formality to approved things
>|> with its rubber stamp. The media is a state-run propanganda machine. The 
>|> judiciary system is bad, party goes over the top of the Constitution. Everything
>|> is written for presentation. Corruptions among officals are everywhere. 
>|> Anyone who is realistic would not put faith in such a system.
>
>What the hell all of these has to do with HK?
>Who care! These is not the system we are going to use!

Of course we care. What are the system you are going to use? Who set up the
system for you? If China or British government do not approve the system,
do you still think that we will have a system? Without a healthy and quality
system backup, I don't see how we can implemented our system.

>Beside, it is the government which is corrupted in China.
>But it is the special interest group which is corrupted in HK.
>Does Miss A, B, C and "one chicken one building" sound new to you.
>How much effort our "dear master" spend on all these.
>It doesn't bother you that more and more chillren become the gangsters.
>It doesn't bother you that more and more teenage work in the "fish-ball market".
>May be all of these doesn't bother you because you are not going to 
>live in HK for the rest your life.
>But all of these does bother me!!! 
>To be honest with you! I don't trust the Bristish if they never concern
>all of these!!!


Look at the southern part of China, those places that are considered to
be special district. Look at the crime rate at those area. Those things
that you mentioned are social problems that happen in almost everywhere.
Yes, we need to address these problems seriously but still you cannot
prove that a native ruler will be better than a foreign ruler. (look
at Japan, it has the same problems you mentioned and it is ruled by
Japanese).


>
>|> Finally, I would say that the suffering of Chinese people in the past and
>|> present is largely due to Chinese themselves. It is easy for us to blame the
>|> British, the Japanese, who had done harm to us decades or a hundered years ago.
>|> China has the largest population in the world, but when it comes to running a
>|> country successfully, it is not the quantities that counts, it is the quality of
>|> the people.
>
>I see! It is legal to rob people as soon as they are "low quality"!!!
>       It is legal to slave those people as soon as they are "low quality"!!!
>
>In the conculsion, It is legal to slave anyone as soon as they are "low quality".
>
>P.S what so called "quality" in your eyes is only power! 


Finally I would to ask you a question. Do you think it is the foreign
power that hurt Chinese more or it is Chinese themselves that hurt Chinese
more? Thinking of history, there are a lot of good emperors in China
who are "foreigner" and there are a lot of bad emperors that are native.
As long as the people can live happily, comfortably, has freedom of speech
and has a quality life, what else are you asking for?


-Raymond Choy-





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