HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Alan Moore's "last Superman story"
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:52:52 GMT

In article <1ep6leINN9qv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa396@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Henley) writes:
>
>By the way, the issue numbers on those issues are SUPERMAN #423
>and ACTION #583. And I should have noted that the artist on
>both issues was the great Curt Swan.  DC should reprint these
>issues as a GN, but I suppose they won't since it might cause
>confusion with their newer (and, from what I hear, much inferior)
>"last Superman story."

What would make a *lot* of sense... and avoid the aforementioned
confusion... would be to publish an expanded "Man of Steel" TPB,
which contained the Byrne _Man_of_Steel_ which launched the
post-crisis Superman, as well as the _Whatever_Happened_to_the_
_Man_of_Tomorrow_ story, which bade farewell to the Silver Age
Superman.

But it's unlikely...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mkelly@goya.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Subject: DC: JCs loves (was Re: Hellblazer #61
Reply-To: mkelly@goya.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:05:01 GMT

 faber@loon.cs.wisc.edu (Ted) writes:

|> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
|> 
|> >                                              (One of these days
|> >Ennis is going to kill Kit off, gruesomely, just for a cheap
|> >effect, and I'm not looking forward to that.)
|> 
|> 	Funny, I am.  She just doesn't interest me as a character somehow,
|> 	and given John's history you just know she's going to die.  I have
|> 	the impression that the only way John's going to be able to save
|> 	her is to walk away from her.

Oh come one now. John's had sex with quite a few women who haven't died. 
(Obligatory joke about little death, jc's sexual prowess deleted.) Let's
see, there is Zed (Mary), Marj, Abby, Chas' sister, presumably Zatanna, the
lesbian from "Hold Me", have I forgotten anyone?

Women who've slept with john and died: Presumably Emma (AGothic, chased out
a window by the Invunche, her ghost turned up in JC:H 1,2), Judith (who
also met John at a Tantric Yoga seminar, ended up as a thrall of the Brujeria), 
Whassername from Sandman #3. Was there also an old flame of JCs in Grant
Morrison's issues, if so, she would have been killed by a nuclear missile.

For the record, I doubt Kit is going to be killed, she'll either end up
as the thrall of the Lord of Vampires, an eternal slave of Hell, or turn
out to have been one of the above all along. Blech.

-- 
+               Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics                +
+                                                                           +
+ mkelly@doc.helios.nd.edu          "The more you drive,                    + 
+ mkelly@undhe5.hep.nd.edu                 the less intelligent you are."   +
From: faber@loon.cs.wisc.edu (Ted)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Hellblazer #61
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:37:58 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>An above-average issue of Hellblazer.  Ennis is at his best with
>quiet moments, restrained horror, and drama that doesn't try to
>become melodrama.  In this issue he's writing to those strengths,
>and it's a pity he doesn't do so more often.

	I agree. It was very well done.  The best part was leaving the
	bloody gruesome hooror bit off camera.  The thought of what could
	make John drop his cigarettes is scary.

>                                              (One of these days
>Ennis is going to kill Kit off, gruesomely, just for a cheap
>effect, and I'm not looking forward to that.)

	Funny, I am.  She just doesn't interest me as a character somehow,
	and given John's history you just know she's going to die.  I have
	the impression that the only way John's going to be able to save
	her is to walk away from her.
>
>As always, we are left with very mixed messages about Constantine's
>level of power and ability.  The Devil seems to think that what
>Constantine did here took extraordinary power.  On the other hand
>the impression persists that what we are seeing here is not power,
>so much as sheer gall.

	I really liked that bit too.  We know it impressed Triskele, but we
	really have no idea what John did.  (It's possible he did something
	else, and is bluffing again - or that he really did pull off a
	major magic.  I believe number 2, but hey...)
>
>I liked the bit at the end.  I think it's meant to suggest that
>the Devil's sense of humor is severely limited.

	I still think the best line is John forgetting to give him the
	finger.  I thought it was contrived at the end of Dangerous Habits,
	but I kind of liked the consistency of him doing it again.

	But, John knows he'll get to do it again.....
>
>-----
>Dani Zweig

Keith Geffin didn't mean to create the Ambush Bug, he just lost a bet and had
 to create the silliest comic character ever designed.  Right?
 "I'm not bare naked on a surfboard, am I?" -- The Ambush Bug

			Ted
-- 
Ted Faber		Figment at Large		  faber@loon.cs.wisc.edu
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." -- Maugham
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: The New Frontier
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:15:59 GMT

In article <1erk5hINNqn4@hal.com>, dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran) writes:
> I don't know about anyone else, but whenever I see this title, I
> immediately here a jazz-influenced synthesizer, a soft back-beat, the
> voice of Donald Fagen, and see an image in my head of a tall blond who
> bears a resemblance to Tuesday Weld dancing in a bomb shelter with a
> short dude in horn-rims.  Don't ask me why.

Probably because of the musikvid made of the song with the same title?
Yah, that song creeps into my mind as well every time I read the comic...
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: wketelh@andy.bgsu.edu (William R. Ketelhut)
Subject: supermam/dracula/pale horse, etc...
Keywords: ramblings
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:02:29 GMT

    Like a lot of people out their, I was extremely disappointed by the
demise of Superman.  I could have scripted a better death sequence than
what's his name.  I did buy the comic, though that was mostly for the 
neat arm band.  For such a big event, you would think they would have
done a better job with the story.  Too bad the Spectre wasn't around to
get rid of the sucker.  This has got to be the biggest anti-climax for 
the death of who is the greatest super hero ever, even if I don't buy his
comic.  Makes me wonder how Aquaman got cancelled, again.
    Saw the movie Dracula and I feel that it is perhaps the best movie I've
seen this year, though I'm having trouble remembering the early Jan-Apr
schedule.  I give it two thumbs up, though I do notice some people were
disappointed by it.  I put that to the fact that the movie follows the pacing
of the novel and not that of a Lethal Weapon or Batman.  Personally, I like
the change of pace since I am a big fan of the novel.  For those who don't 
realize it, all the mythology and geography in the book is accurate.  The only
thing Bram did was bring them together in a successful way.  I only hope
Malcom X is half as good as this film.  Check out Tom Waits as Reinfield.
    Why is it that Innovation is taking soo long to get the On A Pale Horse
series on the market.  Issue three is supposed to be out this December, which
might make for two issues in a year.  
    It's good to see Spectre again.  This is finaaly the way I remember him
from his brief stint in Adventure Comics way back when.  Now if only the
Phantom Stranger could get his own comic again.  I just finished picking up the last of it's back issues.  With the trend in DC's darker line up, I hope it
is only a matter of time before they resurrect the House Of Mystery.  I can 
hope, can't I.  It would also be good to see Sgt. Rock and easy Co. again.
     I can't believe the Justice League sold out before I got to the comic
shop.  I have a record going back to issue 150 of the origianl series.  ARGH!!
    Like the new X-men cartoon, though I wasn't able to find it this Saturday
morning.  What happened?  I ended up finding Super Dave instead!?!
    That seems to be all the time for now.  Don't want to miss Star Trek.

Sincerely,
wketelh@bgsu.andy.edu
From: jcherney@envy.reed.edu (Joel Alexander Cherney)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb Sandman Joke (was Re: Doomsday - Despero's long-lost brother?
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:08:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov18.230807.8823
Reply-To: jcherney@reed.edu
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

SMB147@psuvm.psu.edu writes
> In article <Bxtu91.Csu@news.udel.edu>, krupski@ravel.udel.edu (James John
> Krupski) says:
> >Doomsday isn't the Hulk and he isn't Lobo.  He's Despero with a name change.
> 
> Aw, I thought he was the missing Endless, Sandman's Brother, Destruction.

Joy.  A Sandman/Superman crossover.  Now all we need to see is John Constantine join the Teen  
Titans and we'll be all set.  Oh yeah, Death has to marry Guy Gardener.  *)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu (Steven Parks)
Subject: Re: Superman Revival Methods The good parts version
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date: 21 Nov 92 02:07:23 GMT

In <her own comic book!> tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Constantine) wrote:

>He's not dead.
>He's just MOSTLY dead.
>I've seen worse.

it's only a flesh wound.
he'll get better...  

...in time for the _Superman_ Annual, _The [Superman] Man of Steel_ Annual, 
the _Action Comics Starring Superman_ Annual, and the _Adventures of Superman_
Annual, a big "welcome-back-you're-alive-after-all" 64-page one shot 
explaining how Lobo saved his life through mouth-to-mouth resusitation, 
a new black and red costume (to be changed back to the original blue and 
red in a special 30-part cross-over series six months later, as announced 
by Advance Comics and the Comic Shop News six months prior to the actual 
issue coming out), and the introduction of two new titles:  the _Adventures 
of Clark Kent_ and _Superman's Pal, LOBO_.
and let's not forget an across-the-board price hike.

damn, i love this business.  =)
--
VAX: A machine for the 80's, and it still is.
Steven Parks  (309) 677 1271
SnailMail: 1312 W. Main #104 Peoria, IL USA 61606 
E-Mail:  nudnik@camelot.bradley.edu    or    nudnik@buhub.bradley.edu
From: wntrmute@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (August Paul Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Brainstorm: How DC will bring Superman back from the dead
Keywords: Ressurection Central
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:01:42 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

Actually, I was thinking on this little subject myself and came up with
the following:

Superman is vulnerable to magick, right?  And everybody knows how powerful
Superman is.  What if someone turned him into a zombie?  I mean all you'd
have to do is charge him with sunlight every now and then and you've got
the world's most powerful slave.  Animating the dead _is_ an option in
the DC universe.  In any case, since magick works *better* on Supes than
on normal people a side effect is that he has some free will and some of
his memories.  There would be some great scenes with Lois reacting to
a Superman zombie, and Supes walking the halls of the Daily planet
trying to remember who or what he is.  Of course, to completely revivify
Supes would require a heavy hitter magick user like Dr. Fate or some such.
A good title for this could be "The Haunting" but I think it's been taken.

August Paul Yang is too into gothic horror.
wntrmute@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
From: mkelly@chaucer.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: How was ROBIN 3000?
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:41:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov18.154146.14959
Reply-To: mkelly@chaucer.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly)
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame


 panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden) writes:

|> Perhaps you'll like the later issues better, as Robin learns to fill his 
|> [Batman's] role.

Blah. I'm sure Batman is still alive. This is Batman, remember?

-- 
+               Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics                +
+                                                                           +
+ mkelly@doc.helios.nd.edu          "The more you drive,                    + 
+ mkelly@undhe5.hep.nd.edu                 the less intelligent you are."   +
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Re: Is Superman #75 for Wed, or Fri?
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:07:03 GMT

In article <SS.92Nov17145535@wpi.WPI.EDU> ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:45:27 GMT, kamg@ecf.toronto.edu (KAM GREGORY K) said:
>
>kamg> Just wanted to confirm with anyone who knows.
>
>kamg> I read awhile back (from CSN, I think) that Superman #75 was
>kamg> coming out tomorrow (the Wednesday) yet lately the local news
>kamg> stations have reporte d its release this Friday.
>
>The adds in comics were the 20th. That's Friday....

However, it's a DC book.  All DCs are released for Wednesday sales.  Expect
it tomorrow.

-------
Scowling Jim Cowling
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria (opinions disassociated)
-------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mfterman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: Why do people HATE Image?
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:24:29 GMT

rglass@PCS.CNU.EDU (Randall Glass) writes:
>  What is the real reason many people hate Image comics?

Dave Sim has spoken in favor of Image Comics and Peter David has
expressed a certain amount of disdain for Image Comics. I happen
to agree with both of them.

>  Is it because your favorite artist left your favorite book?
> or that you know your favorite artist will never draw any
> Marvel character ever again? (as in mcfarlanes case).
>  OR do you hate image for not doing anything that couldn't be
> done in a marvel comic?
>  ORRRR do you hate image for 'stealing' all the good talent 
> from the big 2 (3?4?5?) for their own greedy purposes?

I like some of the Image artists, I do not think any of them are
damaging Marvel by leaving them. I consider the best artist in
comics to be not at Image and still occasionally doing work for
the Big Two. As I only follow Peter David's stuff at Marvel, I
particularly ma less than indifferent to what happens there.

I do like Image for what it represents in terms of creator's
rights and in the publishing of comics. However I collect
comics from the perspective of the reader, and from that end
of things Image leaves me less than moved. They are simply
producing more superhero comics without any new edge or real
incentive to have a quality writing staff at the company. They
are trying to be just another Marvel, and the ego of at least
on person at that company makes me severely annoyed at them.
The attitude towards writers ("who needs em") leaves me less
than moved.

-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mean Ol' Top, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:01:33 EST
From: <GPS108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Pre-bagged comics(Was:Re:Superman is in the bag... sort of)

The professional opinion on pre-bagged comics seems to be to take them OUT of
the bags if you care about long-term condition.  The editors of Wizard magazine
are always advocating this saying things like, "A comic is worth more READ than
bagged..." and, "A pre-bagged comic is NOT a collector's item..."  The fact is
that the bags will deteriorate the paper of your comic.  Over time, the cheap
plastic used for them will turn yellow and, subsequently, yellow the comic.
Therefore, a comic kept in it's pre-bagged state should be considered no more
of an investment than a comic printed on "Extra-Biodegradable Paper TM".
For me, the answer has always been simply mathematic.  Anybody ever hear that
old cliche "the whole can be no greater than the sum of its parts"?  Meaning,
that a polybagged comic starts with one value, and when opened, every
individual piece will have a smaller value.  These smaller values have to add
up to exactly the value of the unopened comic or something is screwed up!
Personally, I open up my bagged comics and store the comic in one place, the
goodies in another, and I throw all the bags (If they have print on them) in
one big bag so that they can deteriorate each other and leave my comic alone!
                                        ------Eric Sansoni
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: pautler@ils.nwu.edu (David Pautler)
Subject: Re: Mignola and _Dracula_
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:19:34 GMT

In article <1ep5cfINN2a1@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder) writes:
> 
> I was unaware of this.  I had heard, though, that Coppola's production
> company liked some of the sketches Mike Mignola did of Dracula's castle
> so much that they used them in the movie.  After seeing the movie, I was
> not so terribly impressed with Dracula's castle myself, but those are
> the breaks I guess.

The castle looked very much like a man seated on a throne to me.  I could
spin out a theory of how this reflects the Romantic origins of the story,
but I'll spare you that.

	-dp-
From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: thor
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:53:47 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


>	1) Thor "killed" Loki
>	2) Loki Possesed Odin
>	3) Loki (Odin) said Banish Thor
>	4) Heimdall Banished Thor thinking it was Odin
>	5) This was a really stupid plotline
>
> Bxwz4y.u2@apollo.hp.com (Jennifer E. Levine)

actually, the plot could have been good if it had been handled well.
of course, with you-know-who doing the writing, that was impossible.
so i agree with your #5.

do you think we were all spoiled by walt simonson (337-384)?
i mean, maybe defalco's stuff is normal for the comics world,
and we should actually be enjoying it . . . nah!

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Eric Jaron Stieglitz)
Subject: Re: Superman is in the bag... sort of
Reply-To: ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Eric Jaron Stieglitz)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:00:31 GMT

In article <mXsJuB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> herbertf@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Herbert Fung) writes:
>I bought the collectors poly bagged version of Superman #75 yesterday. 
>The back
>cover is warped where the bag was sealed. Ugh! I thought poly bagging was
>supposed to protect the comic, not damage it!

In fact, I've heard that the bags used for polybagging are trash. Supposedly,
they will deteriorate in a matter of years, ruining the comic inside. Has 
anyone heard any more about this? I, for ne, would find it quite interesting if
the only way to preserve bagged books is to remove it from the bag and store 
all the different parts (cards, posters, etc.) separately. 

Eric Jaron Stieglitz "DragonEyes" aka "Torque" aka ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
"With great power comes great responsibility"
We have been given the power of free speech.
Let's make sure that we use it wisely...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: Alexx@world.std.com (Alexx S Kay)
Subject: Re: Oz Squad panned...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:49:17 GMT

Anatole Wilson <aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> 
>>aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anatole Wilson) writes:
>> 
>>I don't think Oz Squad is at all satirical, and I'm not even sure why
>>that came up.  It's not making fun of anything.  I don't think it
>>reflects a hatred of modern society, either, any more than a cyberpunk
>>novel reflects a hatred of technology.

>The post I was responding to called it satire, and "nasty funny." I
>agree with you--it's NOT satire, satire isn't their goal, nor are they
>reflecting a hatred of modern society.  

I contend that there *is* a strong element of satire in Oz Squad.  What
they are satirizing, however, is neither the Oz books themselves, nor
anything so all-encompassing as "modern society"; but rather the current
trend in the comic book industry to take lovable old characters, and turn
them into grim'n'gritty psychotic avengers.

>What they are doing is creating
>a morality play, in which good and innocence vs. evil and maturity, and
>nobody wins. Like I said, I think it's the story they haven't yet told
>that's more interesting than the story they have told.

I agree there's lots of interesting hints being dropped.

[...]
>I disagree with you here. I don't think the writer has a hatred or a
>deep-felt need to dstroy these characters, but I haven't gotten the
>impression there's much respect there, either. A lot of it had to do
>with the Oz characters going into public domain last year, open for
>anyone's use. Still, I guess I shouldn't try to read the mind of someone
>I don't know. 

Last year?  Is there some news I haven't heard about?  As far as I know, the
first six Oz books have been in the public domain for decades (Last I
heard, Disney had rights to the others).  That's why both Shanower's
graphic novels and Oz Squad haven't featured any characters from the
later books.

>Maybe if I didn't feel they were trying to squish the characters into a
>traditional action/adventrure comic book mode, and maybe if inordinate
>amounts of time hadn't been spent throwing babies off a roof,

I'd bet money that that was a deliberate Cerebus reference :-)

>or if the
>characterizations were stronger and more developed, or if they delved
>more into the background they've obviously developed but only hinted at,
>I'd feel like they were honestly trying to tell a decent, fascinating
>story, and I wouldn't mind so much.

I also am waiting impatiently for more story content.  Issue 3 had far
too much dull fight scene for my taste.

Alexx

Alexx@world.std.com
"We have Max to thank for his persuasive methods in convincing the beast to
 channel his energies in a more positive direction."
    "I bit him twice!"      -- Sam and Max
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 12:00:14 EST
From: <IO20441@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Classic Death of Superman (Siegel and Moore) References

The only problem with the modern "Death of Superman" was that he died
in a dragged out punch out with Doomsday in stead of being out smarted
like he did with Luthor, in the Siegel version, or just giving up on
being a Superman like he did with the Moore story. In this Modern
version I think Superman died the Most nobelly, putting his life down
for the city he loved and for all the Inhabitants of Metropolis
This is the key to make this story great, not that he died, but what
he died for.
            The Black Bear From Hell
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc