From: doug@letni.lonestar.org (Doug Davis)
Subject: Re: michaelangelo, the virus
Organization: !letnI !letnI !letnI
Distribution: dfw
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 02:30:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.021555.11491@fallout.lonestar.org> system@fallout.lonestar.org writes:
>
>No, I've been using VMS POSIX to read and write tar tapes, execute 
>shell scripts from NetNews, doing makes, and performing all those little
>functions that before I had to use ported programs to take care of.

Nice to have the functions of Unix in your os huh? Notice how noone
has bothered to take on the task of providing vms functions in unix.....



>You're only at the mercy of an "EVIL" OS vendors if you use the 
>extensions they provide outside of the standard, you build your
>own prison on DEC or anyone elses system. 
>
>Stay portable, write to the lowest common denominator and you'll be 
>totally portable, if only a little dull in what you can ultimately do. 
>
Or a little bit safer at what you publish.

>>>If you want to implement portable code Under VMS you can with no
>>>changes to the industry standard.  
>> I would hope that anything I do under vms doesn't have any effect
>> on the "industry standard"
>I only ment that Industry portable/standard applications will run
>on VMS POSIX without modification...

Incidently how is VMS handeling the POSIX networking routines? 
Since VMS doesn't even DO native TCP/IP without forking out
yet more money to DEC. Actually how do they handle say the
POSIX select() system call...


>>>Portable code is a way of life, not an operating system choice.
>> (Urr.. No I won't bother..)
>Urr.. Either you choose to write portable code or you take advantage
>of the operating system's extended features.  There are business reasons 
>for doing one or the other and consequences for those choices.

Just make sure your vendor tells you that what you are using is a "non"standard 
routine.  POSIX vms doesn't actually go out of its way to tell you that what
you are using isn't supported on most of the machines that "posix" was based on.
You kinda have to read between the lines or just "know"


>>>Alpha (21064), the fastest commercial CPU chip (200MHz) 
>>>on the planet and it runs VMS. (See it at DECworld Boston and DECUS Atlanta
>>>later this month)
>> BZZZZT Wrongo buck-o the first alpha chip to be released WILL BE clocked at
>> 50Mhz, there are plans to make faster ones some time in the future. Yes
>> they have been proported to run VMS, OSF/1 and Ultrix.. 
>BZZZZZZZT.... Wrongo Doug-o even current CISC VAX (CMOS IV) chips are 
>running at 83MHz today on the VAX 6000-610 (40 Specmarks), 
>the VAX 4000-500 is only running at 64MHz(30 Specmarks).
>
>The production ALPHA chip currently clocked at 150-200MHz, the 80MHz 
>rated chip is slotted for palmtops.  In the future, clock speeds of 
>300+MHz are expected--but that's futures right now.

Production ALPHA chip, okay, I want to buy one, give me the
dec part number for a 200Mhz chip.   For someone who seems
to be up on dec press releases you need to re-read the one
of Feb 28... Besides all that what does the VAX chipset have
to do with anything I said. We were talking about the ALPHA chip
set to which you proclamed, "The fastest commercial CPU chip (200MHz) 
on the planet and it runs VMS."  I still contend that DEC is not
producing a 200MHz ALPHA chip at this time.  Or for that matter
150Mhz.  BTW do you know the cycle time of a 200 Mhz chip?  Is
dec producing it's own memory for that kind of cycle time or perhaps
they "just slow things down" for memory access.

Give me a part number and a price (qty 1) that I can run off
any buy a 200MHZ alpha chip from DEC.


>Come and see/touch/use the ALPHA Workstations running at 150-200MHz at 
>DECworld in Boston, and at DECUS in Atlanta later this month. Oh, and 
>be sure to see the third party industry leading applications that are 
>running on these new platforms too.... 
I'll be there... Should be interesting,


>> Besides who besides uninformed PC people ever judge the speed of a machine
>> by it's main cpu's clock rate?   Gosh wally I've got a 50Mhz 486! Gee
>> beav thats pretty cool, how come you have 120ns drams in there?
>That's the only thing that some U*** folks seem to measure performance 
>in, that or some_constant x VAX 11/780.

Please quote me a source for your comment,  any particular publication
that says brand foo is faster than brand bar because of brand foo's clock
speed will do.. 

Also I believe the formula "# X VAX 11/780" is a valid performance
scale.  Of course it doesn't tell you a whole lot unless you know the
configuration of the 11/780 in question.

>>>Heard about any of the Micro Kernel work being done?
>> Sure! mach3 has been out a couple of years, cmu has a micro kernel for OSF/1..
>> oh, I bet you ment within vms right? 
>Oh, guess you know which fortune 30 company's engineering group helped 
>fund that work too?
does it matter?

>>>Look at what is available in the industry and VMS is the only added 
>>>value operating system with FIPS 151 (POSIX) certification today.
>> If you consider VMS functionality "added value" from your perspective,
>> being employed by dec I guess you would..
>If you don't consider VMS functionality added value, you're certainly
>entitled to that opinion, but it's not just my opinion that VMS provides 
>high reliablity, data integrity, and added value.  Computer customers
>and business people have relied on VMS in banking, manufacturing, retail
>and engineering since 1978.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't specific enough, my point was, some people
would consider the lack of VMS functionaliy "added value"..  ;-)