From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Vintage Ann Landers ... and thought experiments.
Date: 2 Sep 1992 18:06:21 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

I just read a vintage Ann Landers column (described as one of her
"favorite columns from the past"), which suggests some questions I
would like to pose to soc.feminism readers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ann Landers: My youngest brother, "Dennis," waited until he was
38 years of age to marry. And then he selected a woman who has a
master's degree but doesn't know enough not to put a wet towel on a
mahogany table.

I can't stand to see the way his "brilliant" wife cooks and keeps house.
She boils the vegetables until they are mushy. When she serves steaks,
they are either burnt to a crisp or bleeding.

Dennis lived with me until he married. Every shirt I ironed looked like
it was brand new. Now he wears the same shirt for three days in a row
and he looks like a tramp.

His wife probably never heard of a needle and thread. Last night when
they came here for dinner, Dennis' cuff was pinned together -- no
button.

Should I offer to teach the woman a few things? My dear brother never
utters a word of complaint. He is so in love, he's unconscious. What is
your advice, Ann? I'll do as you say.
A Sad Sister

Dear Sis: MYOB, dearie. If Dennis is happy the way things are, that's all
that matters.

Your offer to help may be interpreted as criticism, or, worse yet,
interference. It might even make you persona non grata -- which means
"plenty unwelcome" as the woman with the master's degree will explain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This column illustrates the way women were traditionally brought up
to act as social police of other women; to penalize nonstandard
appearance, lifestyle choices or behavior in their female counterparts.

My question is: To what extent do you think this sort of behavior occurs
today, among contemporary women with feminist sensibilities? 

I have two reasons for bringing this question up (aside from the
Ann Landers column). 

One is that Naomi Wolf's book, The Beauty Myth, often refers to the
empowering effect, for women, of being part of a group of women. I think
Ms. Wolf's writings are usually realistic, but I wonder if this
empowering effect is always present. (And I would like to hear about
*your* experiences, as parts of groups of feminist women.)

The other is an afternoon I spent a couple of years ago, when I had
to sit and answer questions, next to a very talkative lady
who had to do the same. My impression, from listening to this lady's
lengthy conversations, was that she valued people mostly by their
degree of social skill -- and was quite willing to make moral judgments
about the socially inept (male or female). I suspect this woman would call 
herself a feminist, and that she would not engage in openly
discriminatory behavior of a more usual sort. And I wonder, dear
readers -- have you met women like this too? 

Lenore Levine
levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu

P.S. I did a thought experiment (gedanken experiment if you want to
be academic and pretentious). I tried to imagine myself going to
a large symposium or conference. Of course, the thought frightened
me (since I'm not very articulate in realtime).

Now: thought experiment one. I'm going to a math conference. Most of the
attendees are men, often either considerably older or younger than me. 
Many have had life experiences very different from mine (i.e., pure academia
all the way through). Some Neanderthal talk, "Ug! Look at waitress!" 
(You get the idea.)

In this thought experiment, I'm frightened to death. But I can also
imagine the possibility that I can get through the conference and be treated
with respect and get some useful things done and not make a complete
fool of myself. 

Thought experiment two. A feminist conference. I'm not the only
(middle-aged large Jewish woman who has lived through the counterculture
and is now a graduate student). No la-la trips of the 70's. (Remember
when you had to hate men? Remember when it wasn't OK to drink saccharine
soda?) And most of the participants have a pragmatic, civilized left-wing 
sensibility that's within at least a few light-years of my own.

This thought experiment doesn't work out very well. I imagine myself being
ostracized for being socially inept and being called sexist and wicked when 
I'm really just being a dufus and -- if I have something very clever but
very weird to say -- not being able to get it across, at all.

What do you think of this thought experiment? How does it fit in with
your own thought experiments, or your own reality? I would like to
hear...


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