HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: K.Elango@frec.bull.fr (Elango K)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: BJP & the next election
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:08:23 GMT
Reply-To: K.Elango@frec.bull.fr
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Bull S.A. Echirolles.,France

Whether it is going to be good or bad, In the next elections
(Whether it is after 3 years or in the near future) B.J.P
will get more no of seats in the parliment than what it is
having now.  It may even emerge as a contender to form the
govrnment.

In the south BJP is gradually consolidating its position.
It had already made inroads into  A.P, Karnataka and Kerela.
In these states the image of congress(Which is ruling now)
is eroding. So part of the votes which went to congress in the
last elections will go to BJP.  If Deve gowda & Hegdae don't form
an alliance ,in Karnataka BJP may come to power. In Thamil Nadu
BJP is moving close to the ruling party ADMK. In Orissa also BJP
will gain more votes, because Patnaik is not enjoying the mass
support, which he had earlier.

In the BJP ruled states, the resentment against BJP was increasing.
But now, it will gain its vote bank becuase of Ayodhya events &
dismissal of the state govts.

The ban on RSS & VHP may also provide some sympathy towards RSS &
VHP which inturn will become votes for BJP.

Overall BJP will increase its strength in the parliment
by atleast 75%.
K.Elango.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail	: K.Elango@frec.bull.fr		|   BULL S.A. 
Phone	: (33) 76 39 75 00    ext: 7342	|   Networking division
Bullcom	: (229) 7342			|   1, rue de Provence  B.P. 208
		 			|   38432 ECHIROLLES cedex   FRANCE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: siva@shakti.intel.com (Siva)
Subject: Re: Housing in Urbana-Champaign
Reply-To: siva@shakti.intel.com (Siva)
Organization: Multimedia Software Technology Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:48:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.233918.28227@raven.alaska.edu>,
sb@flux.isr.alaska.edu (Santanu Bhattacharyya) writes:
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
> From: sb@flux.isr.alaska.edu (Santanu Bhattacharyya)
> Subject: Housing in Urbana-Champaign
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 	I am looking for housing in the Urbana-Champaign area starting
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   Thanks. We really need to know that in Portland, OR. :-)

   Seriously, why don't you guys restrict you posting to the particular
   area. It is easy enough to restrict it to a state (eg. Illinois).

   ... siva

  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41420 soc.culture.tamil:4502
From: vigneswa@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Hinduism and Idol Worship....
Date: 19 Dec 92 13:36:51 GMT

	SCTamil has become (for the nth time) Periayar battle-ground
again. When I heard about EVR movement, I could not believe that one
might go around and smash the idols. However, after a friend of mine
(by birth, a brahmin) explained what the  slogas mean, I was wonder-
ing whether EVR committed any crime  except  intrusion  into others' 
freedom and belief:

Slogas and rituals:

1. Clean a "symbol" first (by water, milk etc).
2. Clean the place around it.
3. Invite (evoke) the almighty God to that symbol.
4. Present edibles and other things.
5. Do all rituals to the form of almighty temporarily in the symbol.     
6. Request the almighty to accept whatever presented and to bless
   the people around.
7. Distribute the blessed "prasaatham" at almighty's presence.
8. Request the almighty to go back from the symbol. 

	"After the rituals, the symbol has no meaning.  Even Hinduism
doesn't promote the idol worship. We pray the almighty evoked in that
idol. Maybe, our people didn't want others to know the meaning of the
slogas.  That's why still they want to stick to the 'devine language',
Sanskrit. Our guys (brahmins) do a lot of forbidden things inside the
temples.  If they believe  in all rituals, they are sure that almight
is not there.  If they don't beleive in what they do, if they perform
all those just for living, they don't care....", says my friend.

	I don't know Sanskrit.  I have no idea  what all those slogas
really mean.  From some words  I could guess that some of them praise
the almighty.  Let  me request the informed  readers to tell me (us?)
more about it. I like to hear about the idol worship concept in Hindu-
ism and about the slogas, not whether or not EVR was right.  

Vicky:
UMass, Dec 19
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: PVNR - IDIOT OR INTELLECT? (Happy New Year)
Keywords: soc.culture.indian
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:01:04 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

(Raghuram G Murtugudde) writes:
>>
>>I spoke to my Dad the other day regarding the situation in India.
>>His analysis was as follows:
>>Satya Prabhakar 
>>
> A lot people say Muslims should have given up Babri Masjid because they
> were not praying there anyway.  Does this really make any sense?

True. It doesn't make much sense. But does it make much sense to 
expect sense and reason in the midst of communal frenzy. On a 
rational level, your point makes a lot of sense. But the question
to ask is this: "Are Muslims in India better off now than they would
have been if they reconciled to a gracious compromise?" This
opinion in no way dilutes the responsibility of BJP/VHP combine.
They have wreaked havoc on India for their political ends and should
be tried and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Muslims are in no way responsible for what has happened. But,
this is a big But, they could have easily averted this tragedy
if they chose to. Would they have been rendered insignificant
because of such a compromise, I don't know!

This is analogous to the question: "Whilst there is no question 
that a sexy girl has every right to walk into a seedy strange
bar filled with drunken slobs at 2am and expect decent treatment, 
does it make sense?" 

It is a difficult question, but an important one to ask.

Satya Prabhakar




--
______________________________________________________________
I hate sig files, particularly ones that refer to themselves!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40659 soc.culture.pakistan:18103
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Sati's history
Date: 14 Dec 1992 05:39:41 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu


>Mr. Newton has alleged that religious doctrines should not be changeable. I
>beleive that greatness of Hinduism lies in its keeping in step with the
>evolution of society and man. I believe religion gives us the moral code to
>live in our world as of today. Problems arise when we follow a set of rules l
>laid down centuries ago which have little or no relevance to life that we are
>living today. The basic tenets of hinduism still remain the same but thinkers
>philsophers and sages (as we call them) have given their interpretation based
>on the values and traditions prevalent at that time. That I beleive should be
>the real purpose of religion. Let us take Sati for instance. The practice of
>Sati in not one of the basic tenets of hinduism. It was started because the
	Ok... 

>Muslim invaders after winning a battle sexually assaulted the women of the
	Since this battle gave rise to such a disgusting practice among
	hindu women in India, would you care to put down for our
	information that which battle are you talking about.
 	As far as what I got from this posting is this. There was no
	sati in India before Muslim barbarians :-) came to India.
	Is this true?
	Was there no Sati before Islam's arrival in India?

>palace and made them their slaves. To preserve their honour the women started
>practising Sati. When the britishers came and such acts of barbariasm became
>rare it was again a hindu reformer, Raja Rahmohan Roy who asked that principles

Mansoor Khan


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: chitoor@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Srikrishnan R. Chitoor)
Subject: Re: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:23:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.193845.23719@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ssankara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sornam Sankara) writes:
>In article <Bz5I1n.5uE@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayan
>a) writes:
>>Actually there is a parallel to this! We have one dravidian racist known as
>>EVR and his followers who went and broke the idols in temples. But they
>>were doing it to show their hatred for Brahmins. Was this idol breaking
>
>     Why are you (Aryan racist !) lying.  Do you have one example for this.  It
>is true Periyar fought the Hindu and Brahmin fundamementalism with tooth and 
>nail.  He ridiculed Hinduism and Brahminism.  He and his followers  took
> Vinayaka's statue (procured by themselves, not stolen from any temple) in a 
>procession by beating with chappels etc.  It is true he hurt the ordinary Hindu
>sentiments too by doing that.  But he never broke any idols in any temples.  
>You Aryan racist, Hindu fanatic, is not happy to see that there is no major
>religious violence in Tamil Nadu where Periyar tried to kill the fundamentalism
>to death. I can understand your anger.
>
>
>S. Sankarapandi

Periyar might have destroyed hindu fundamentalism, but he did
hurt sentiments of hindu people and preached hatred against
brahmins (irrespective of whether they were moderates or fundamentalists),
just because they were of Aryan origin. 
      That does make periyar a racist and I do not see anything wrong
with KT's statement except that he could have probably included
some justifications to his statements. It is really sad that there 
are people supporting racists.

-Krishna.
Opinions are mine.
From: ssr@cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Hipocricy.
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:26:25 GMT
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor, San Jose, CA

In article <1992Dec16.212241.25175@cypress.com> ssr@siberia.cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA) writes:
>
>Shariyat for Shao Bano but Supreme Court for Debris Masjid. You go
>figure.  I ain't saying that the destruction of the Babri Masjid was
>right..... just wanted to HILIGHT the hipocrisy involved in this
>issue !                   ^^^^^^^

Whoops... must read HIGHLIGHT..... you get the idea !!!




-- 
Bapcha
3901 N.  First Strasse
San Jose,  CA 95134, 408-943-2719
From: sgs1679@usl.edu (Sudhindranath Sira G)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Hyderabadi muslims, secularism etc.,
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:37:55 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

While I do agree with some of the netters who complained
against some sections of Indian Muslims celebrating Pakistan's
victory and/or India's defeat in criket-matches, I also would 
like to point out an aspect of this issue which I have noticed.

Suppose we are having a discussion on cricket. Now, if *I* praise 
any Pakistan cricketer and talk admiringly about his talent,
it is considered OK, because I am a Hindu. Whereas my Muslim 
friend cannot possibly do that without inviting allegations that 
he is "unpatriotic", "a traitor" etc.

I wonder why it is so and whether such a feeling is
universal. Is it the price that minorities have to pay 
in order that they can enjoy certain privileges ---- one of
which is that they are allowed by the majority of the land
to make a living in that land ?

Comments welcome.

Regards,

--Sudhi.

--
********************   Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath.   **********************
email : sudhi@usl.edu,         Address : USL PO Box 41688,
        sgs@ucs.usl.edu                  Lafayette, LA 70504-1688. USA.
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (The Purple Bleeder )
Subject: Re: To be or not to be - ashamed
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:33:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Excellent reply Alok.
I agree with the points in ur post.
Why should Hindus be ashamed of their religion if   
some vandals had pulled down the disputed structure.
And what has Hinduism got to do with this.

I have a point to make to the Maha-maha-shri-shri-self-styled
secularists, those large hearted souls as think themselves to be.
If u are so secular and tolerate the anti-national acts
going on in Kashmir and also tolertated the past anti-national
statements made by the Imam from the jama masjid, how
come u can't tolerate Hindus who are proud of their faith.why
do u call them fanatics. They don't preach their Hinduism or
destruction of other faiths,
except that they come forward to shield it from the abuse
of the vote hungry Cong-(i) and other psuedo-secularists  who
do not give a damn about Hindus and their beliefs.
If u are true secularists then tolerate Hindu-fanatics
(as u chose to brand them) also. 

 BECAUSE U SECULARISTS HAVE SHUT UR
MOUTH WHEN THE CONG-I GOVT. OVERTURNED THE RULING OF
THE SUPREME COURT IN THE SHAH BANO CASE. ALSO U HAVE SHUT
UR MOUTH WHEN 50-60 TEMPLES WERE DESTROYED IN KASHMIR
MUCH BEFORE THE AYODHYA INCIDENT. U DO NOT TALK ABOUT
THE NEED FOR AN UNIFORM CIVIL CODE. Now i do not know
whether it is cowardice or just ur indifference to Hindu
sentiments. Are u aware that ur tolerance is just viewed
as cowardice by the minorities and this gives them a
free hand to rape and abuse Hinduism at will.

How come u are so hard on the Hindus who are assertive about
their faith but come to the valiant rescue of other faiths
if u are truly secular.  Please relieve urself of this hypocricy.

Nuff' said.
Sivaram Hariharan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Reply-To: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:01:16 GMT

In article <1grai0INNdjd@phakt.usc.edu>, fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay
Fafat) writes:

> 	I ask for more tangible proofs.

This thread is getting rather inane.

All you science-types, prove to me that there is light when the sun is
up. Assume
that there are no other sources of light, and assume
I am blind and in every way impervious to light.

-Akash
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly)
Subject: Re: Sati's history
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 10:53:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.063835.10691@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sjayanth@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Satyanand V. Jayanthi) [Narain] writes:

Narain> In fact, there is i think  (some one can correct me),
Narain> there is only one instance of a woman burning herself 
Narain> on her husband's pyre mentioned in the
Narain> pre-muslim period and that was of MAdri in mahabharata...but
Narain> anyone will agree that it is not sati.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Why is this not suttee? 

Narain>Narain (from a friends account....)
Narain>narain@bass.bu.edu         


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: gillu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mandeev.sandhu)
Subject: Re: Hindus and Tolerance
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:10:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec8.212152.1911@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mrv@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (madhukar.r.vadyala) writes:
>
>How come no body on SCI (except for a few) or anywhere  condemning the 
>destruction of hindu temples and  roasting of hindus in pakistan and all over
>When the BM destruction  is condemned, same thing should be done
>
 
	Here are some facts from the New York Times that you can relish.!!

NYT Sunday, Dec 13, 1993
page A-7
reporter: Edward A. Gargan
reproduced without permission.

< stuff deleted >

In New York, Asia Watch issued a statement asking the Indian government
to examine the role of the police in the rioting and wether they had
joined Hindu mobs in attacks on Muslims in recent days. It is
increasingly clear that muslims have died in far greater numbers
than hindus in the rioting.

< stuff deleted  >

While the Indian Government appeared to be doing little except
watching and hoping the level of violence diminishes - a strategy
endorsed by P.V.Narsimharao at a news confrence on Friday -
leftist opposition parties expressed alarm at the apparent 
targetting of muslims by the police during rioting.

	Former Prime Minister V.P.Singh, the leader of the left
leaning Janata Dal party, told Reuters that the vast majority of
deaths in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh had been muslims.

"Almost 80 to 90 percent of the killings across Uttar Pradesh
have been of muslims with police bullets," Mr. Singh was 
quoted by the agency as saying.



>Some people on the net have even gone the extent of declaring that
>how they are ashamed of being hindus and indians.  I guess these
>guys may also one day be ashamed of their mothers too.
>
>It is this silence and tolerance that have resulted  in our ass
>getting kicked by Gaznis, Babers, Goris and  just  about everybody else and
>we still are working towards making sure that our future generations
>also get theirs kicked.
>
>I think this is the definition of tolerance and hinduism.
>
>We should first learn to  respect our religion and culture.
>				      ====================
>
>I am proud to be an Indian  and  a Hindu
>
>
>
>Madhukar Reddy.
>
>========
>Standard Disclaimer applies.
>==========
	Mr Reddy you have a lot to be proud of as you can see.
from the news reports. First it was the sikhs in 1984 and now this .
 mandeep
From: fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Wormallic
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:29:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


Worma threatens:
>Don't play with fire. Kids don't play with fire. Don't get your hand
>burnt.

	hmmm, a veiled net dot threat. Spineless bums like you can't even
	spell out a threat properly. Can't blame you, though.
	
>BTW, Are your exams over yet?

	Nope.

>Did you forget the acronym FAFAT? I can remind it from time to time
>to our new readers. 

	I could'nt care less about your stoopid and strained acronyms.
	You're not good at even that. You can post it as a daily
	reminder to others (of your moronic capabilities) and prance
	around. Be my guest. 

>You WORMS get lost in the woods.

	heh heh :) better a worm than a cretin, Rev Indra.. :)

	FFT




Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: zxs6373@usl.edu (Siddiqui Zafar)
Subject: Re: India -PVNR Indignant About Pak's Attempts to Policitize Ayodhya issue
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:56:36 GMT

In article <fb78.724095101@sol> fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan) writes:
>prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>
>>(G.Narotham Reddy) writes:
>>>
>>>New Delhi - Dec 10: Indian Prime Minister P.V.Narasimha Rao today strongly 
>>>resented to Pakistan's attempts to politicize the Ayodhya developments in the 
>>>international fora. Describing as unfortunate Pakistan's actions, Mr.Rao 
>
>>Interesting it is to note that the combined Islamic heart bleeds profusely
>>over the destruction of an inanimate mosque, but not for the millions of 
>                            ^^^^^^^^^
>>their starving  Islamic brethren in Somalia.
>
>>Satya Prabhakar
>
>HOW COME, IN THEIR VIEW, MINORITIES NOT BELONGING TO THEIR
>RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS DO NOT DESERVE PROTECTION? SOMEONE
>HAD POSTED A FEW MONTHS AGO ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE AIR
>PORT OF THE PATRON-IN-CHIEF COUNTRY OF OIC FOR HAVING
>AMONG THEIR PERSONAL POSESSION, A COPY OF THE GITA AND
>A SMALL IMAGE (GANAPATHY) THAT THEY USED FOR PERSONAL
>RELIGIOUS PURPOSES. WITHOUT EVEN A SEMBLANCE OF DECENCY,
>THE BOOK WAS SNATCHED, TORN UP AND THROWN CONTEMPTUOUSLY
>INTO THE WASTE PAPER BASKET. LIKEWISE, THE IMAGE WAS
>SMASHED BY THE CUSTOMS OFFICER. GOD FORBID I EVER SET
>FOOT ON SUCH HEAVENS OF "TOLERANCE". IT IS THESE HYPOCRITES

Let me tell you one thing. These countries like Saudi Arabia etc do not
portray an Islamic country at all. These kind of absurd laws that  they
enforce are no way connected with the Islamic laws. Islam gives full
right for the people to follow their own religion and whatever
mode of worship it be.


Zafar.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: janand@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Jayaraman Anand)
Subject: Worship place ---- OCTOGON
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:22:00 GMT

In article <1gb3ckINNm96@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.204809.19648@udel.edu> kazi@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Zunaid Kazi) writes:
>>>> 
>>>> [...... deleted.....]
>>>> 
>>>> >that one religion is better than the other.  Let's build the 
>>>> >world's first *multireligious shrine* at the site.  Let's make the
>>>
>>>How about a pentagon with a fifth corner devoted to atheists like me ...
>>>We need to be represented too.  We need a place where we can meet and discuss
>>>the stupidity of the people who follow `religious books' rather than think...
>>
>>Maybe a sixth, for people who don't care whether a God [or Gods] exists
>>or not.
>
>How about a seventh, for people like me who consider themselves 'God'.
>:-)

	How about an eighth corner for a guy like me whom the Gods
	worship ?  -:)

J Anand.

-- 
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!
When you don't know what to do, walk fast and look worried.
!!!!!!!!!%-----+++++=====/**##!!!!!!!!!!!!/**##=====+++++-----%!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: dimple@wam.umd.edu (Charanjiv S. Gadh)
Subject: Ticket
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:12:33 GMT

Hi Netters!

I am looking for an air ticket (return ticket)):

From:  Baton Rouge, Louisiana
To:    Washington, D.C and back to Louisiana.

I am looking for the cheapest ticket and would like to fly as soon as possible,
and I would like to return on Jan.10th.

If any of you folks could help me get a cheap ticket, would be a great help.

My email address is

                       dimple@wam.umd.edu

Thanks for the help.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:22:45 GMT

In article <1gug9pINNk3h@phakt.usc.edu> fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>Akash writes:
>>You agree then that we need some common sense apparatus (apparati?)
>>before we can even start talking scientifically. 
>
>	O definitely. 

I guess this is the end of any meaningful discussion.

>
>>Note that all you
>>can do is demonstrate (rather violently) that there is light, not
>>prove it, assuming that there is common sense apparatus. 
>
>	I do not understand what you mean when you say "demonstrating" is'nt
>	proving.

You use the supposed fact that light exists to prove that light exists.

>
>>Even then,
>>photocells are not unique sources of electricity, and convex lenses
>>are not unique precipitators of fire. So you still have some proof
>>left.
>
>	whaaaaaat? I suggest you write with more perspicuity.

I believe you suggest that light causes shocks and fire, whereby
we supposedly conclude that light exists. So unless
you rule out any other cause of shock and fire there is some proof
left. And I happen to know of other causes for these, though of
course you have friend prop up a convex lens before cooking
and string out a photocell before posting articles on the computer.

>	                                            A particle does not
>	"possess" any physical properties in any objective sense till a
>	measurement is made on it.

Ah, but what does your religion say about the existence of a particle
if no measurement is made on it? Does a particle exist if there is
no observer? And I heard some amateur philosopher babble about
reality existing in imagination...

Bye bye.

-Akash