HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:45:18 GMT

In <1992Nov19.162933.18684@tamsun.tamu.edu> hayek@eemips.tamu.edu (Khalil Hayek) writes:

" Authority does not have anything to do with it. Actually, in this context, 
" saying that one has more authority than the other means that one is more 
" `complete' than the other, which is not true since they are both the same
" divinity. Jesus, as God, is the Father, with the same authority and all 
" the perks. 

   This statement of yours makes the both of them imperfect because the Son
does not know the Hour, the Father does, the Son sits for Judgement, the
Father does not.

" Now, Jesus, as a full human, is subject to the laws of nature and time, and
" thus, is no different than any other human, in body and mind. He even had his
" times of trial, when the devil tried to lure him, and when he was afraid of
" the torture he knew he must go thru. 

   You are going away, what full human can raise the dead?

" A couple of days ago you replied to my post on this subject and said that
" (I don't have the exact words but you can quote me in a previous article)
" if what was inflicted on Jesus does not take away from a man's esteem then
" what does. Something in my head tells me you have not converted to Catholicism
" in 48 hours, so where did you get this inspiration?

   It is just switching data banks, that's all. (I am programmable.)

" Christianity is eternally in debt, mein Herr. 

   Muchas gracias, sin~or. Just doing my job.
   
" Simply, Son of Man means that Jesus is a human, physically, and thinks like
" a human, hurts, rejoices, etc... "Son" here is in the genetic/biologic sense; 
" "Man", however, refers to the race not to a specific man, i.e., not to a 
" biological father, but means that Jesus was a human, from the clan of David, 
" and lived among humans and shared in their culture and society.

   If "Man" refers to race, then how is it genetic? In fact this makes it
figurative/metaphorical.

" Son of God refers to his divine attribute,
" and to the fact that he is God: "son" here is in the linguistic sense.

" ??? You can't be a language! And trust me, you wouldn't qualify for a Hindu.

   It was on purpose, I knew that Hindi is the language of Indians but
she knows me, anyway!

" Nabeel, Now you're writing as N A Beeline and defending Christianity? 

   I am not defending Xtianity, it does not need my defence, I am just
explaining what I think I can.

" What's happening man? It won't be full moon for a couple of weeks now!

   If that was true, it could have been a mistake. I am not Beeline. (At
least softwarewise.)

**


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Anisa's Flames (was Re: Son of God(was Shaheed))
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:53:24 GMT

   This has nothing to do with scl, so apologies Ballouz (wa la yhOno
SAm^In), but I have to maintain my reputation where it was intended
with harm, "wa a.krijOhom min .haytho a.krajOkom."

   I think the following flames are meant to me not to N. A. Beeline, Like
Taroub once said:
     ni.hna LI baKayna lkiL IzjA mIn ybaKInA

In <4423@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

" I think this says it all.  No wonder why you were rejecting the idea
" of marriage in soc.culture.arabic by asking God to forbid it on you.

   I thought I made myself clear at that time, but since I am intended
with another argument, I can reply with another argument as well. The
problem is that if I get married, I will marry two and then hell will
break loose (specially if one is NA and the other is Arabic.) I believe
in even numbers, my name size is even, my father's is even, my grandfather's minus one is even and so on.
   And if others risk that on the judgement day they may be limping on one
side, I realise that I may be limping on both sides, so help me.
Another negligible reason I did not mention is that a few years ago, I
bet a few guys that if I marry an Arabic girl I will be paying them $500,
now this is not a big deal but I will be called a loser! Also, I don't
like NA/E girls although I am working on it right now.
   The worst thing is that such things are out of my hands, I am living
by what once Afaf Radi said:
     .tol omrI ahrab min ^omrI wi 'asaLim lil'aYam 'amrI
     wi ta.kodni RI.h, wi tgebni RI.h ...
     ya .hayAti ya ba.hri ma losh mInA ...
     afrA.hi ya ma^zOfa .hazIna ...

" Now I understand - you completely reject your roots and Islamic heritage.

   "completely?" This places you in a narrow corner! Islam is our heritage
no matter what, and hopefully we will be back at it like we were intended
to be and our prophet will be proud of us rather than embarrassed with our
disgraceful deeds. Amen.

" Anisa

** limzjaWaz uLuh yzIdO
   w yib^atloh LI bIrIdO
                       --Sabah

-- Now I've got a sig besides the standard **-sig --------------------------

_________________________\  Any resemblance between the above opinions and
  ___     ___ ___     ___   those of real or fictitious  persons is purely
/V   \  /V   V   \   /   \  coincidental.
 /   /   /   /   /  |   _    
/   /_  /   /   /_  \__//   "Now, the time is moving on
_____________________ _/__  and I really should be gone"--Brotherhood of Man
\ Nabeel M. Ghuzlaan //                     in "Save all your kisses for me"


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@bechtel (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: pluralism
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:06:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.094932.1@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk> zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.141408.14796@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>, ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>> 
>> In article <1992Nov18.115230.3975@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>>>
>> [  ....  ]
>>>
>>>My principle is the following: Pluralism (real pluralism that is)
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>The only true pluralistic state that ever existed over the last 14 centuries
>were the Islamic states. Jews, christians, and members of other relegions
>achived high political office as ministers and advisers to the rulers. Can you
>say the same about any of the so called pluralistic states of the western
>countries. Islam is the second largest relegion in france. There is not 
>even a mayor who is Muslim in france. The same goes for the UK not one Member
>of parliment. One mayor though I am not sure if he is still mayor or not.
>How about the US? How many people of the non Judeo-Christian religoon hold
>public office.  
>
>>>
>>>I am against a religious state, becuase this goes against my belief in
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>pluralism.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>
>A religous state on the model that some people suggeste may raise fears. The
>problem is not  the Islamic state. The problem is that Muslims fall far short
>in formulating and articulating their vision of that Islamic state, in modern
>and twentyeth, if not twentyfirst century, terms.
>
>Kamie

Islamic State? my favourite one is Turkey.


-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 18:56:57 CST
From: Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
 <4402@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>

Anisa asked 'why is it so diffcult to understand'.

This is what religion is, it is faith and belief, not understanding.
Eventhough I do not undersstand it, I believe that it is the truth, and
therefore, I am a christian and you are not.


Nasri
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|        Je suis jeune, il est vrai; mais aux ames bien nees            |
|        La valeur n'attend point le nombre des annees.                 |
|                                                 LE CID (DON RODRIGUE) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:35:54 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Elie writes:

>This theologian once sat by the shore trying to understand the misteries of
>the
>world and GOd. untill one little child came to the shore and dug a little
>whole
>                                                                     hole
>^^^^^^
>>in the sand and ran back and fro with a small apil putting water in this
>whole.
>                                                                      hole^^^^^

Elie, does the Teachings of Saint Thomas completely support the 'Son of
God' theory?

Should we really take belief without question?

Dear Elie, God wants everyone to believe in His Oneness.  Do you recall
a passage from the New Testament that stated 'if a house is divided, it
surely will not be stand'?  Perhaps an easy explanation is that the
Christian scholars and theologians could grasp the concept of belief in
God through making Him more humanized and tangible.  But does that
necessarily make it the Truth?

Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nightingale)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:58:10 GMT

In <92322.185657U38065@uicvm.uic.edu> Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

" Anisa asked 'why is it so diffcult to understand'.

" This is what religion is, it is faith and belief, not understanding.
" Eventhough I do not undersstand it, I believe that it is the truth, and
" therefore, I am a christian and you are not.

   In fact this is the problem that never ceases to embarrass us before
atheists. Atheists (and all of us theists) believe that some people
bring funny ridiculous stories and convince people that they are
true and this is faith and all that. So how can we objectively judge
whether we are really on the safe side (other than this feeling that
we are right which everybody has regardless of their religion)?

   I think if we can't prove objectively that we are right then we
are not different from being wrong.

   Je suis drole ;-) (What does that mean anyway?)

** win konti bit.hiBini ya .kafIf
   shof lak ba'A ma^ daul ta.srIf
                                 4M


Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:42:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.142600.19848@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>
ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.115232.25424@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib
Wardini) writes:
>>
>[  .. ]
>
>Elie, I am not an expert on Islam and I don't have much information on this 
>discussion but I would like to draw your attention to a point that is directly
>related to our situation in the Lebanon. 
>You said:
>
>[  ...  ]
>
>>I will never be able to achieve high posistions in the political
>>administration, since Mulims can only be ruled by Muslims. If I have a
dispute
>>with a Muslim, I will not be treated as equal and my trial can not be taken
>>before a secular or Christian jury and judge.

Muslims in Lebanon were Judged by Muslim Judges. Just for the record.

>If you,as a non-Moslem living in an Islamic state, want the freedom to get
high
>political offices, why you do not apply the same principle to Moslems in 
>Lebanon? Why you would like a high office in an overwhelming Moslem country
and
>you object to total separation between State and Religion in Lebanon?
>
>I seem to remember reading some articles in which you said that you want the
>principle of sharing power at the top level to be guaranteed, am I wrong?

Ibrahim, your point is well taken. I have many times said that I am willing to
discuss and abolish confessionalism in Lebanon.

I am willing to start discussion on this right now!

I have posted some suggestions on getting our country back, and here I
suggested some constitutional reforms.

I am open to discussion, and I am willing to abolish confessionalism.

did I say it clearly enough?  :-)

>[  ....  ]
>
>
>>This fact is enough to make the whole system unacceptable.
>
>I hope you see why some of us, Moslems, are asking for a change to the better
>in the country.

I am with you a hundred percent. I am against using the Syrians as a guarantee
though!

>I. Ballouz



elie wardini
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Syria puts conditions on leaving Lebanon
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:03:48 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Gen. Aoun: "I told you so :-))"

#elie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:30:48 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Nov17.172438.8567@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>
>in this series of articles, I have written many things which are negative about
>Islam.
>
>I would like to clarify, unprompted by anyone, that I am against all religion
>becoming a state religion.
>
>Thus my contentions with Islam in these articles are based on condition that
>religion becomes the ruling law of a country.

Yes, I understood what you were trying to say in your posts and I did not think
that you object to one religion and you accept another instead. 

I wrote to ask about the principals behind your arguments. It seems to me that
you were not consistent in what you hold. You argue for a power sharing formula
in the Lebanon and you explained that some people simply need a guarantee in the
form of political power, despite being undemocratic 100%.
On the other hand, you want full democracy and full equality in the case of an
islamic state (or in any other religious state as you had explained).

So the point is one of consistency. I beleive that one should have the same 
criteria that he uses for all his judgments.

Note here, that I am not criticising your stands or your opinions about Islam,
neither I am criticising your opinions about the power sahring formula.

>
>Moreover I would like to add that I am just as opposed to having ANY religion
>as a state religion. I oppose that Christianity or Judaism etc. be the basis of
>a state.
>
>When humans argue that they are speaking in the name of God, and actually get
>the power to back their arguments, they end up believing that they actually are
>God (Istaghfara Allah!) and start acting as such. 
>
>THIS APPLIES FOR ANY RELIGION! WE SAW THAT IT HAPPENED WITH CHRISTIAn STATES,
>IT HAPPENED IN MULSIM STATES AND IT HAPPENED WITH A JEWISH STATE!
>
>
>elie wardini


I. Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Xref: sparky soc.culture.lebanon:5133 soc.culture.arabic:5026
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: KAYAM prison (the jews)[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dpreviously the jews)
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:51:14 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <14456.9211201011@thor.cf.ac.uk> scemg@thor.cf.ac.uk ("M.G") writes:
>
>BACKGROUND:
>The article was about the kidnapping (by the Israeli ) of thousands of
>Lebanese and Palastinians muslims and the condition in KAYAM prison
>
[  ...  ]
>
>Shame on you Ballouz If you do not care about your own brothers and sisters
>in ISLAM or the Lebanese (may be you are a Christian) in KAYAM prison 
>do not call your self LEBANESE ((we Lebanese, have more....)) 
>you do not deserve to be one
>
What a hypocrite you are M.G.! Since when you have started to care about us?
Were you with us when we were being slaughtered, bombarded and taken from our
houses in the middle of the night? 
During the israeli invasion, not Y O U and not your brothers did manage to 
raise an eyebrow or shout (not act, just shout) to stop what has been happening
to us. Where were Y O U when those prisoners in AL KHYAM were being taken?
I tell what you have been doing, Y O U were watching the 1982 world cup while
those prisoners were dreaming about their brothers coming to help them.

And now yoy are coming to pretend! Some cheap lies, this is what it is.
Don't pretend now that Y O U care about us or the prisoners, we stopped
beleiving  Y O U long time ago. 

Stop using US and OUR prisoners whenever you decide to project an image
of a good caring Moslem, You are only fooling yourself MOUTHFUL. 

>
>M.G.
^^^^^^
You are wondering what I am! The question is what you are?

>Cardiff, Wales, U.K.

I. Ballouz

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: fahs@ecf.toronto.edu (FAHS Samir M)
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:01:37 GMT

 (George Hassoun) writes:

>
>It is my understanding that the prime objective of countrymenship is
>the dissolution of the differences existing between several groups of
>people and their fusion into *one and only one* solid and robust structure.
>
>We, surely, can speak *today* about my and your differences. But i don't
>think it is even allowable to build on those differences, in order to
>design our *tomorrow* (e.g. any vision about the future of Lebanon). We
>freely talk about the differences *today* in order to alienate them and
>eliminate the psychological boundaries existing between us, not to build
>higher walls.
>

Very scrupulously expressed and well put.
 
>-- 
>lakum lubnanukum wa li lubnani - Gibran Khalil Gibran
>George Hassoun     (ghassoun@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au)

Samir M. Fahs

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aHtarifou l-Houzna wal-intiDhar     artaqibou l-aati wala ya'ti
@ishrouna @aman wa-ana yaskinouni l-Haninou wal-rijou@           "Fairuz"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 15 Nov 1992 23:05:23 CST
From: Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Son of God(was Shaheed)

For those of you who do not understand how Jesus can be the Son of God and be
God at the same time, here is  an analogy.  It is the simplest that I could thi
nk of.


Imagine the SUN = Father
Imagine the light = SON
Imagine the heat = HOLY SPIRIT


I am not saying that God is the Sun, but, the Sun, the light and heat it produc
es, are very much the same thing.  Imagine God to be in something like that,
much more complicated of course.  And this is why Jesus told us that he was the
 sun of GOD, the Father.

I hope this will make it clearer to many of you.


Best regards,



Nasri,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|        Je suis jeune, il est vrai; mais aux ames bien nees            |
|        La valeur n'attend point le nombre des annees.                 |
|                                                 LE CID (DON RODRIGUE) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: UPI
Subject: Exchange Rates (Thu Nov 19 1992)
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: United Press International
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:02:03 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]

                      USD per LL      LL per USD
                      Thu     Wed     Thu     Wed

Lebanon pnd       .000518 .000518 1930.00 1930.00

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: UiO
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:29:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.121205.26474@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib
Wardini) writes:

Ohoh! big Typo! we humans are imperfect!  :-(  ;-)

>Anisa, I will answer you and Nabil Ghuzlan together:
>
>In short: I am not trying to convince either of you to believe in what I
>believe. I am trying to say that what I belive is better than what you
believe.
              ^NOT
>You have also the right to question. But I am free to believe what I want.



elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: JOKES
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:02:46 GMT

In <4425@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

" > There was this guy getting married for the fourth time...
" > So an old time friend of his has a reunion with him.
" > One thing led to another, and they were discussing the ex-wives.
" > Q: What happened to wife #1
" > A: She died out of a poisonous mushroom
"  
" > Q: What happened to wife #2
" > A: She died after ingesting a poisonous mushroom
"  
" > Q: How about #3 ?
" > A: She died out of a cracked head. She refused to eat the poisonous
" >    mushroom 
"  

" I suppose we are to wonder why the man was killing off all of
" his wives ... they weren't subserviant enough?

" This sounds like a sexist joke ....

" Anisa

   Not necessarily, but another Shehrayar? What if he had reasons to kill
them, e.g. self defence :-D?

   So, give the man the benefit of the doubt, don't be sexist yourself.
Antimanism!


** la t.haLifInI biSHanab!
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Date: 19 Nov 92 04:28:21 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Nabeel writes:

>   Recently, it was realised that religions are masterpieces of bedtime
>stories albeit boring ones. (Probably they're meant for those over 50 or 
>something.) I am thinking of introducing excitement into traditional
>religions, how'ld ya like that?

I think this says it all.  No wonder why you were rejecting the idea
of marriage in soc.culture.arabic by asking God to forbid it on you.
Now I understand - you completely reject your roots and Islamic heritage.

Perhaps Islam requires dedication, discipline, understanding, and strife
towards purity in belief which you cannot apply to your own life.  But do
not underestimate others who do or wish to do.  All the prophets whom
Allah guided in His Straight Path for all mankind were young men - like
the Prophet Mohammed (saws), Jesus (as), Yousef (as), and many others -
to be models for society.  Not like Michael Jackson, NORM, and others.

Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon