HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nola@cats.ucsc.edu (Nola Van Vugt)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What kind of car do you drive/3 kids
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:53:50 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <SKATZ.93Jan21124023@kariba.bbn.com> skatz@bbn.com (Susan Katz) writes:
>  What kind of car do you drive with 3 kids--all of whom are in car seats?
>  There will be 2 Fisher Price carseats and a century infant seat
>  (rear facing).  Other car concerns are price and repair record.
>

We bought a 1988 Plymouth (read: Mitsubishi) Colt Vista a year ago
and we love it.  We spent a long time looking for a used one 
and they are hard to find because hardly anyone ever
trades them in.  All of the mechanics we trust (and a few we don't)
said they never get these cars in for anything other than their
routine service at 30,000 and 60,000 miles.  We expect this one was
sold because it has a dark interior and no air conditioning and it is
*hot* inside, even in foggy Santa Cruz.

It's a 7 passenger station wagon.  The third seat folds down flat for
carrying extra cargo. The middle seat (the one with 3 seat belts) is
adjustable fore and aft for legroom (kids can still ride comfortably
in the third seat with long-legged adults in the second seat).  I can
carry six kids and still have plenty of room behind the third seat for
8 full-size grocery bags.

Putting all 3 car seats in the middle seat would be difficult.  I have
successfully wedged an adult between two car seats in that row.  My
two kids (one in carseat, one not) prefer what they call "the way-back
seat" because it has little snack trays that rest above the wheel
wells.  If you wanted to have two adults riding in front, you could
easily put the two older kids in the way-back and the infant in the
center of the middle seats.

We considered a mini-van because we wanted to be able to haul not only
our family but their friends, and our camping gear around.  For safety
reasons we decided we wanted a passenger car.  After owning this car
for a year we wouldn't consider replacing it with anything but another
Vista.
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Leaving kids alone
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:59:42 GMT
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <1jikq1INN7q2@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:

   I think in their case, ignorance was bliss. They havent a clue about
   some of the things I did, or had happen to me.  My mom grew up in London
   during the blitz, and the real possiblity of having bombs drop on you
   sort of dwarfed all else that was going on (in fact she was living in a
   house that got bombed). I guess she figured since bombs werent dropping
   out of the sky in LA, then little harm could come to us. I know she was
   wrong about this, and my kids will be reared with this in mind.

Sometimes I wonder how much they did or didn't know. Perhaps some of
those experiences are just valuable experiences to have in growing up.
Even the slightly dangerous ones, particularly if you realized
sometimes afterwards how lucky you were. Perhaps your mom thought that
because there weren't bombs, you were never in danger, but I doubt it.
Moms specialize in worrying about their kids.

My brother and I went down to the local park recreation program
unsupervised. It was probably a ten block total walk, with my mom
crossing us on the busy street in front of our house, and me crossing
the one side street by myself. I was alone down there when I was 6. I
broke my arm falling off a slide, and the people managing the program
and the town police took care of me until my mom met me (just shortly
after we arrived) at the hospital. But I had a lot of valuable
experiences there, both with the other kids, other adults, doing craft
projects my mom wasn't set up for, and during the alone time I chose
to take - when I'd go chasing after butterflies and frogs instead of
hanging out in the program area. My mom probably thought I'd always be
in the program area - but that independent time when I could just do
my own thing was a great experience for me.

It's a fine line to walk between giving a child the space to grow and
experience and learn for themselves and build self confidence through
it and taking 'unnecessary' chances. Being alive is risky. Just living
to minimize risks is survival - I hope to raise my children to be
willing to take small to medium risks.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
From: f_markwort@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Toddler biting and AIDS transmission
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:20:31 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

My 17 month old was bitten by another toddler in her day-care class.
This boy has bitten at least one other child I know of. (Both bites drew blood)
The day care providers are contemplating requesting AIDS testing on the
biter if the bitten's parents request it. Does  anyone have any experience
with similar situations. Initially I didn't think it necessary, but
I really don't know the family of this little boy. 
Thanks,
Mary 
c/o f_markwort@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Xref: sparky misc.kids:33274 misc.jobs.misc:8879
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Is There A Mommy Track for Technical Professionals?
Date: 23 Jan 93 17:38:47 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

>kerry@brabo.esd.sgi.com (Kerry McCracken) writes:
   Someone else wrote:
>|> >But let's face it,
>|> >you chose to have the younguns, so you are going to have to sacrifice
>|> >SOMEWHERE....
>|> >Obviously, these things should have been thought about BEFORE you
>|> >had the younguns, but you now have to live with your mistake. 

>"Out of line" is an understatement ......

And Kerry is totally right.  Many children aren't 'mistakes', and
parents aren't living with 'mistakes': they're living with loved
children.

>It would be REALLY nice if we could all go back to the 50's ala Ward and
>June Cleaver.

Here, however, I totally disagree.  If went back to that era, I would
be a miserable woman, forced into a role that doesn't fit my
personality and dreams.  My husband would be a miserable man, forced
into a role that doesn't fit his personality and dreams.

What so many of us forget is that in the 'Ward and June' days, dads
didn't get to go to their kid's afternoon ball games, that Dad didn't
get to come home for dinner every night--he was too busy working.  Dad
didn't get to spend every weekend with his kids, because he was too
busy playing golf with his boss.  I think there are a lot of fathers
out there who prefer the current situation: one in which they're
allowed, even expected, to be nuturing, positive role models--and
parents, rather than strong silent breadwinners.

While there are women who prefer to stay home with their children (and
I hope all the parents who wish to do that have a financial
situation that permits it), there are also women who _want_ to work,
who have dreams and ambitions that are different from being a
full-time-mother--and those women should also be allowed to do what
they want.

What bothered me the most about the post saying 'choose kids or work,
but you can't have both', is that the post was directed towards
_mothers_, not fathers.  It's widely accepted, somehow, that a sick
child means MOM stays home from work--that it's her responsibility to
pick up a sick child at school, to stay home with the child when the
child is ill, etc. and so on.    As long as people continue to accept
that idea as a basic premise, people are going to be shortchanged:
moms, dads, and children.

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder)
Subject: Re: Potheads of the 70's Raising Kids
Organization: American Math. Society
	<1993Jan18.163247.19618@crd.ge.com> <C12DB2.2Asx@austin.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:17:49 GMT

In article <C12DB2.2Asx@austin.ibm.com> jlpicard@austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) writes:
   >kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes:
   >> elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert) writes:
   >...
   >> >Currently schools are teaching that ALL drug use is bad and that alcohol
   >> >is a drug hence social drinking parents do the dance. How do we deal
   >> >with the fact that in many cases recreational use of some drugs isnt all
				       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          
   >> >that bad either? Equating drug use with drug addiction is that same as
   >   ^^^^^^^^ 
   >> >equating drinking with alcoholism. Kids are going to figure this out .
   >> 
   >> Don't believe everything that is taught in school.  Teach your
   >> children to be discriminating.

   >BZZZZT! Sorry Eber! Recreational use of drugs _is_ bad! Think
   >about what happens if you get arrested for it. Think about what
   >happens if your _kid_ gets arrested for it.

So, in your opinion, if something is *illegal*, and it has harsh
penalties for being caught, it is "bad"?  If everyone thought this
way, we'd still be a colony of the British Empire!  The unfortunate
thing about this is that some of the same people that feel this way
about illegal drug use are the same people who are illegally filling
out fraudelent tax returns and illegally blockading abortion clinics.
I will certainly point out to my children that getting caught doing
illegal drugs would be a "bad" experience!

It has long been known that teaching a child that something is "bad"
just because it is illegal doesn't work too well.  Discussing the pros
and cons of illegal and legal drug use with your child will not leave
them feeling like they have just received an order, but have been
allowed to make their own informed decision.  A much better strategy,
in my opinion.  This, unfortunately, is contrary to the DARE way of
brainwashing.  Relating to your child the reasons for your past drug
use, and the reasons for quitting may just give your child the
knowledge and confidence it takes to resist peer pressure to do drugs.

-Alan Harder
 ash@math.ams.org
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Subject: Re: Getting out of School
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:18:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.210042.3847@wam.umd.edu> gnamasiv@wam.umd.edu (N. Girirajan) writes:
>she felt queasy in the stomach.  By Monday morning, it developed
>into a 'stomach ache'.  So her parents said she needn't go to school.
>About 10 minutes later, she was happily playing around, her stomach ache
>forgotten.
>  The next day morning, she developed a stomach ache again.  Her parents
>told her she was going to school anyway.  They got her into her school 
>uniform.  She then said she felt like throwing up.  Two minutes later, 
>she did.  The amazing thing to me was the way she did it.  She was 
>sitting upright on the couch.  She just opened her mouth and out flowed
>her breakfast.  No retching or anything.  She just sat there with her mouth
>open.  She then started crying.   Her parents told her she needn't go to
>school.  Ten minutes later, she was out of uniform, happily playing around.
>  Is this sort of thing common?  Can kids really do this sort of thing at 
>will?  I'm really curious. Of course, *I* never did anything of this
>sort when *I* was a kid.

Last time my son had the flu, his tummy-ache part came and went.  When
it hurt it hurt *bad*.  Then he'd poop or throw up and a second later
feel fine.  Yes.  I kept him home.

Geeze, even *I* can remember throwing up with no warning when I was
a kid.  Your senses aren't as acute as they are as an adult and
often you don't know that it's going to happen until it happens.

Is it that unusual to NOT feel a lot better after emptying your
stomach of something that's making you sick?  Unless this is a pattern
for her that's causing a problem, I say give the kid the benefit of
the doubt here.
-- 
-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+
Nance Colucci                                      att!ihlpl!colucci
"Guech how mangy schticsh uf gumf I haf ing my mouf?" -Chris Colucci
-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+-+*+
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: d8b@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Denise M. Boudria)
Subject: Cute things they say (6 yrs old)
Organization: Raytheon Submarine Signal Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:22:26 GMT

This morning as I was preparing for work I was grilling my son on home alone
stuff (not that we leave him alone, but it's never too early to start making
sure he knows this stuff, and you people have made me paranoid anyway).
Anyway I asked him what he would do if he were home alone and smelled smoke.

He paused for a minute then said (with an evil grin)

"Get the marshmallows"

This kid has a really sick sense of humor.

Oh yeah, and for some cute TV stuff.  He watches Lassie every morning on Nick
and you know how it starts with Timmy calling for Lassie. Well this morning
as Timmy was starting to call again for Lassie my son said "that Lassie, he's 
never around when you need him".

When he was four he threw a fit one day because I picked him up from preschool
and told him we had to stop at the store before going home.  He was afraid
that this might be the day Gilligan gets off the island and he'd miss it.
He was very hurt that I couldn't stop laughing.

Denise
From: b97289@asbt01.gedlab.allied.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Arizona Ashma Attacks "4 yr old"
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:38:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: ASAC, GED, Phoenix, Az


	My 4 year old boy has had ashma for about 2 years now and i was just
wondering if he is going to get better as the grows up or will he grow out of
it or will he always need his resperator ? We live in phoenix and with all the
rain we have currently had since november the news people say that this year 
the probability of people having worst ashma attacks, is what we can look 
forword to. With the water, more rag-weed will grow and the trees will blooom
that much faster, then summer and that much more will die in the summer causing
more severe ashma attacks.
From: jlw@keps.com (Julie Webster)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Is There A Mommy Track for Technical Professionals?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 14:30:11 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan25.220807.14384@umiami.ir.miami.edu> Ann Helmers writes:

> > I also took a "grunt" project, which helped.  No one else wanted the job,
> >I was doing it really REALLY well, and so they let me do it on my terms.


> A comment--the above can be a very good piece of advice for a part-timer. 
> Another post, from Maureen Busch, noted that often a PT worker doesn't get the
> same chance to shine on big, high-profile projects.  So, Judy's advice in the
> category of "got lemons-make lemonade", is on the money.

If your reason for working is income this makes sense. If you have a fair
management team that recognises this type of contribution and rewards it
with more challenging work this also makes sense. If however, your reasons for
working include career development and personal satisfaction, this advice may 
not be the best. I have seen very talented engineers end up being treated like 
mindless grunts whose sole purpose in life is to make sure no real engineers 
have to do any of the dirty work. It's a waste of resources and completely 
unfair.

> willing to commit to being there 40 hours/week.  And as Judy pointed out
> elsewhere in this post, a happy part-timer can be just as beneficial to the
> company.

Of course they can but making them do work that does not make full use of 
their skill set is not good for the company. And making them so depressed and
miserable with their work life that they leave the company as soon as they
decide to go back full time isn't good for the company either.

I have noticed two real problems with part-time workers. The first is that
since managers often expect full time people to work more than the 40
hours they've signed up for, part timers are seen as working even less than
they actually do. 

The second is that when women go part time because of children,
the problems often actually begin when they are pregnant. There are men who 
seem to think women who have had children can't think anymore. I sat in 
meetings with a pregnant co-worker and had men ask me about her parts of the 
project as if she wasn't there. A woman who returns from maternity leave to 
work part-time has to face the people who believe that they are spending
all their time worrying about their children and not work.

In companies where these problems don't exist, the part time solution is
wonderful. But women should make this decision knowing all of the possible
repercussions. 
			       Julie Webster
"Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons."
jlw@keps.com
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Book repair
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:51:48 GMT
Organization: Sylvan Associates

it is a phase, I don't think they always do it on purpose.

We didn't let Katherine tear up books or magazines. She was stuck with
board books and indestructable plastic/cloth and other baby books as
books she had free access to until she was able to handle books
without tearing them. I thought that allowing her to tear up books was
asking for trouble, with the amount of books in the house.

I would read to her from the books with tearable pages often. Dr.
Seuss's ABC book was her very favorite (read quickly) when she was 1.
I would supervise closely and help her turn pages, and repair books
before putting them back out.

I'll have to go looking for the tape - we've got a few books with
broken bindings needing repair. (We have picked up used books, etc).

I personally also don't buy used books with scribbling in them. I have
worked with her so hard 'only draw on paper - only paper meant for
drawing or coloring books meant for coloring -- reading books don't
get colored into' that I didn't want her to get used to seeing
scribbling in reading books, I thought it might inspire her to try it
out sometime.
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Xref: sparky misc.kids:33080 misc.jobs.misc:8829
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Is There A Mommy Track for Technical Professionals?
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:11:41 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

B
In article <1993Jan19.061356.14467@fuug.fi> an6814@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>It seems as if a part-time career is non-existent in software engineering
>and in professional/technical jobs in general.  It's looked down upon,
>because you can't put in those long hours on the big projects.  I'm
>willing to take a salary hit (i.e. less than half-time pay for half-time
>work) but being cheap doesn't seem to help my cause either.  
>
Are there such things as "job-shares" in the States ?  The idea is that
you employ two people part-time to share a single job (obviously from
the title).  They then work out who will take responsibility for which
aspects.  These are starting to become more common here - mostly in
areas that are traditionally female, nursing, secretarial and even
teaching, but I imagine that once a company had introduced it in a
clerical or secretarial area, it would be easier to persuade them to
do so in a technical area.   It might be worth finding out whether
this would be an option.

Bye

Alison
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Tryer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What we did and what we want them to do <was Re: Potheads>
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:13:26 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

I liked Lynn's list.  Mine is a bit different.  Recently I counted the 
number of times I did things in my life that other people doing exactly the
same things ended up dead.  The number was something like 7.  It was a lot.
Some of the things ended up being mistakes, other things were just frivolous
and slightly dangerous.  Now, one would think that I would want my children
to not make these same mistakes.  One would be wrong.

As I hit 40 this year I have discovered that one of my greatest fears is
that now that I'm "older and wiser" I won't have any more adventures.  I
will never again do something so stupid I could get killed.  While this seems
like a good thing, it really frightens me.  I have picked my 65 birthday as
the day I jump out of an airplane with a parachute, but that's just Mickey
Mouse stuff.

I want to encourage my children to take chances, to try the difficult and
perhaps even dangerous.  I love adventures and curiosity and exploration.
But I want to teach them to be prepared for the unexpected, to know what 
dangers you are trying to avoid, etc.  I don't want them paralyzed by fear,
but energized by it.  Sex and drugs are just two topics that fit in this 
long list.  They are big topics right now because our society is so warped,
but there are a lot of other things.

Better a life of reckless danger than of quiet desperation.  Better yet is
not so reckless danger, a lot of fun, and some valuable learning experiences.
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids