HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Kosherizing Recipes
Date: 27 Jan 1993 02:51:33 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu

I have been perusing old cookbooks lately for simple recipes, and I have
found many interesting possibilities, which contain some non-kosher
ingredient, either as the main ingredient or a flavoring.  Does anybody
have any experience with direct substitutions for some of these that
would leave a recipe intact (rather than, say, taste the same)?  I am
looking for substitutes for:

pork chops		(main ingredient)
welsh rabbit (!)	(common in older cookbooks; maybe chicken?)
ham			(I think smoked turkey may work for this)
shrimp			(main ingredient)
clams			(flavoring)
bacon			(flavoring)

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."
From: cs922177@ariel.yorku.ca (DANIEL T FARKAS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:03:46 GMT
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada

In article <1993Jan26.043618.4828@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>
>Did you pay attention to what I said?  Either it will be adjusted
>or it will die out.  Which do you prefer?
>
>prediction; you just keep repeating that this isn't a club where
>you get to pick your own rules.  I have news for you: it certainly
>is a club.  Now, do you want your club to stay in existence?  If
>so, what are you willing to do to ensure this?
>
>If you wish to persuade us to choose otherwise, you are going to
>have to try a different tack.  Your current one is not succeeding.
>

   Maddi, at least you're not contadicting yourself.  There is a common
viewpoint in all the above comments.  It is because *you* feel that
Judaism is a club, that you believe it should be adjusted.  In fact, the
religion is something more deep than that.  It is given by G-d.  Even
the R movement believes this, just that man can reinterperet his rules.
Therefore, it should not be adjusted in order to satisfy people.  You
can't offer an ultimatum to the religion, saying that if it doesn't
change, you will drop out.  There is no point in changing the religion
to keep you in it, because we won't be left with the same religion.
(Reform reinterperets the Torah.  You want to *adjust* it, to keep you
happy.)  If you'll drop out, it's a loss, but not as major as changing
the religion.  As for the religion dying out:  Theoretically, it's
better to let it die out, than to practice *another* religion under the
Jewish name.  However, that's all theoretical.  Judaism has lasted the
longest of all religions.  Throughout all the persecutions and exiles,
Judaism has persisted.  This is not just luck.  It is because there is a
deeper meaning to Judaism, and many people recognize it.  And besides,
G-d has chosen the Jewish people as His nation, and will not let it die
out.  (Especially not because we *are* listening to His word!

                                                     Danny

P.S.  The usual disclaimer:  Please don't send me a restatement of
previous statements.  (I know some of this was, but it was only in an
attempt to clarify what I had previouslly said.)
From: nmuller@ems.cdc.com (Nelson Muller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher McDonalds in Jerusalem
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:11:19 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <1993Jan28.063614.10833@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David) writes:
|> Does anybody know the current status of the Jerusalem Kosher McDonalds?  Also,
|> is this the only Kosher McDonalds?

How would I order a Big Mac? How can that be Kosher with beef and cheese?

|> 
|> 
|> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->David S Maddison<-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|> "I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me."            "I'll be back." T1
|> -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-__-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
|> Physically located: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA ~ Cyberspace: Somewhere on the INTERNET
|> extdsm@lure.latrobe.edu.au [voice (61)(3)2468454] ph_maddison@vaxd.ocs.mq.edu.au
|> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

-- 
=======================================================================
Nelson Muller                    |   e-mail:        nmuller@ems.cdc.com
Empros Systems International     |   scream-mail:   (612) 553-4694
2300 Berkshire Lane North        |   FAX:           (612) 553-4018
Plymouth, MN  55441-3694         |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         A good politician only speaks for his own interest
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: disaacs@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.e.isaacs)
Subject: Re: Kashering appliances
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:35:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.010633.11346@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>
>In the case of a dishwasher, it depends on what the dishwasher is made of.  The
>interior has to be metal for it to be kashered.  If you have plastic racks,
		^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fortunatly for the Isaacs family buget this was not the psak I got when
I move into our curent home.   We were told that the dishwasher needed to
be left for 2 years un-used.  After that one cycle empty and we were in
business without having to replace the racks.  Since our house was
unoccupied for a while before we bought it, this was easy for us.

>you'll need to replace them and if you want to use it for both meat and milk
>you'll need two sets of racks.  For metal racks, you would just run it for
>a full cycle.  You need to run an empty cycle between meat and milk, also.
>
>Consult your rabbi, of course.  It's a good idea to give him all the info

This is definitly the type of question were there are divergent views within
halacha.

>about the type of appliance, even model numbers and the like.
>
>Miriam Nadel

David Isaacs			If I said it, why blame anyone else?
Ok.... So I didn't major 
in English.
From: abkevich@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Re^2: Jews and Germans
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:03:10 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <2031@spam.ua.oz>, jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
> In article <4397@novavax.UUCP> bramson@novavax.UUCP (Jennifer Bramson) writes:
> 
> I find this a distasteful topic (to put it mildly) so unless there are any
> outrageous flames I hope this will be the only contribution from me.
> 

Sure. It is very distasteful topic. I think nobody discussed it before WW2.

>>In school we tried an experiment -- take three pieces of long hair and burn
>>them.  I assure you the stench is repulsive.  Now multiply that by a full
>>head's worth of hair, not to mention skin, blood, and everything else ONE body
>>contains.  Now multiply by dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions.
> 

I am a chemist. I have a strange feeling that you are not. It is distasteful to
make such experiments. However if you are ready to do such experinments in
front of children you should be sure that they are reliable. They are not.

> If you burn hair at a 'low' heat it will produce chemicals that smell. If
> you burn it at a high enough temperature then all that it left is CO2 and
> water. No smell at all. This is the principle that burning hazardous
> chemicals works under.

True.

> I don't imagine the Nazis bothered much with achieving high temperatures 
> (which are expensive and require a great deal of fuel), but they did buy 
> their furnaces from a commerical furnace maker so presumably they were 
> designed for it.

Not always. It was a case in major KZ after 1942. And even in this case heat
was not high enough (they didn't want to use too expencive furnaces). And
because in major KZ Nazis gased and burned thousands people a day smell was
very strong (according to evidences people were able to feel it even if they
were miles from the camp). You shouldn't also forget that in the USSR Jews were
shot in 1941. When German retreated in 1943, they are trying to hide their
deeds dug up mass-graves and burned bodies without any special furnaces.

>>And noone KNEW????
> 
> A lot of the camps were in Poland where the Germans naturally knew nothing,
> the Poles opinion apparently didn't matter. I doubt the Germans asked them.
>

Even though all major KZ were in Poland you should remember that there were 
very many German soldiers in Poland at that time. Soldiers came and soldiers
left - there was impossible to stop rumors. And there were camps in Germany
too. Dachau, Buchenvald, Sachsenhausen....
  
> Joseph Askew
> 
> -- 
> Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
> jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
> Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
> One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.

                              Victor Abkevich
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:26324 soc.culture.arabic:6988
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Jews and Ozir (Was Re: What is H a m a s ??)
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:19:51 GMT

In article <93026.203346F66204@BARILVM.BITNET>, Shaul Wallach |> >
|> >There is no need to explain the above verses!
|> 
|>      For a Muslim, of course, this is true. This is, of course, one
|> raison d'etre for Islam; namely, that the previous religions had
|> been corrupted and that Islam came to restore the original, correct
|> version. Needless to say, Jews believe that their version is correct,
|> and accept all the explanations our Rabbis gave for the apparent
|> "contradictions" in the Torah.

May I ask you Shaul what are those explanations for the apparent
contradictions in the Torah?.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: raven@dazixco.ingr.com (Denise Raven)
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Organization: Intergraph Electronics
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:50:50 GMT


>
>>Well I had tried to get away from posting so much, but I feel I had to
>>reply to this.  Let me get right to the point.  Religion is not
>>something you change to suit people's tastes.  ("to accomadate the
>>center")  From the orthodox point of view, religion is something that is
>>not meant to be changed by man period.  But even according to the Reform
>>view (according to Daniel Faigin) the religion is changed only to "adapt
>>to the times".  From what you've written, it seems that what most people
>>want, determines what should be included in the religion.  (All those in
>>favour of belief in one g-d say 'aye'........) Seriously, how could this
>>be a *religion* if it's determined by peoples will.  You might as well
>>just make up a club with it's own special rules.  There's nothing divine
>>left in the religion from your point of view!
>
>Listen to yourself.  By berating people for what they observe,
>and what they do, do you really expect to reverse the high
>drop-out rate?  It's a reality.  Judaism is not compelling enough
>to sustain itself, and there are many reasons.  Your tirade doesn't
>make me want to rejoin at all, let alone become Orthodox.  So what
>did you intend to accomplish with your comment?
>
>Tell me, have you noticed that society has changed a bit in the last
>300 years, or should we continue to ignore the outside world?
>

Part of "adapting to the times" is realizing that women's roles have 
changed in this time.  Religion is a system of beliefs.  If the system
imposed on women does not meet their needs in this time, they will
abandon it.  This is a test.  Had this been an actual reality check,
you would have been notified that most religions are clubs with special
rules.  ; ) If you argue that your rules are divine, okay, you win and you
get to keep the rules and lose people like Maddi and me and many other
women of this time.  If you argue that your religion is divine
and that when the situations change, new rules can apply, you can still
win and keep many women in your club, I mean religion, I mean culture.

Disclaimer/flame redirection:
This has been a reply in support of Maddi's explanation regarding why she
and other women have abandoned Judaism.  It was not meant to get into
Orthodoxy versus Reform movements.
 

>
>-- 
>Maddi Hausmann                       |  The Truth is still The Truth, forsooth 
>madhaus@netcom.com                   |  Even if believing It you refuse
>Centigram Communications Corp        |  Disproof's uncouth, refuting moot
>San Jose California  408/428-3553    |  A Fundie's brain is dead.
>
-------------------------------------------------------
Denise Raven			 Intergraph Electronics
raven@dazixco.ingr.com		 VOICE: (303) 581-2455 
Intergraph Mailstop COBOU	 FAX:   (303) 581-9972
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:26087 soc.culture.german:10286
From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Siemes Wien is email hell - someone needs to get their act together
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:19:35 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu


	I tried to email PEYERL MICHAEL, SIEMENS AG VIENNA at the address he
	provides (E-MAIL: mxcrew at mx2306.gud.siemens.co.at) and then, when
	that bounced, tried to reach ANYONE at ANY Siemens site:

	the apparent mess there is impressive!

	my first note addressed to mxcrew@mx2306.gud.siemens.co.at) was returned with

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:53:41 +0100
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
Message-Id: <199301251853.AA07837@siemens.co.at>
To: werner@cs.utexas.edu
Cc: Postmaster@siemens.co.at
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 mx2306.gud.siemens-austria (TCP)... 550 Host unknown
554 <mxcrew@mx2306.gud.siemens.co.at>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server)

	it is particular cute to notice the CC (and the massacred domain-name
	mx2306.gud.siemens-austria) as my next note bounced with

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:17:30 +0100
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
Message-Id: <199301251917.AA08083@siemens.co.at>
To: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Cc: Postmaster@siemens.co.at
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown

  ----- Transcript of session is unavailable -----

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from cs.utexas.edu by siemens.co.at with SMTP id AA07996
  (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for <postmaster@siemens.co.at>); Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:09:47 +0100
...
To: postmaster@siemens.co.at


	NOTE, that the mailer-daemon at siemens.co.at thinks it alright to CC
	the bounce note to postmaster@siemens.co.at ...

	well, unperturbed, I try to reach root somewhere at a Siemens machine:

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@siemens.co.at>
Message-Id: <199301251909.AA08033@siemens.co.at>
To: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu
Cc: Postmaster@siemens.co.at
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 mx2306.gud.siemens-austria (TCP)... 550 Host unknown
554 root@mx2306.gud.siemens-austria... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server)


   ----- Unsent message follows -----
To: root@siemens.co.at
Cc: root@gud.siemens.co.at,root@mx2306.gud.siemens.co.at


.
.
.
	I have heard that Siemens is planning to lay of 125,000 employees
	worldwide.  I would like to suggest to take a close look at the
	folks signing as responsible for email in and around siemens.co.au

					(-:{
-- 
  werner@cs.utexas.edu |  ..!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | werner@UTXVM.bitnet

              "Free Advice and Opinions -- Refunds Available"
From: shimoff@umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Orthodoxy and Health (Was Re: Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:53:46 -0500
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc4.umbc.edu


I've been away for a while, so I managed to pick up only the
last bits of this discussion.  But I have two questions:

a. If overall mortality rates among charedim are no different that
   that of the rest of population, the apparent protection from CHD
   must be compensated for by increased risk of some other kind
   (drowning in the mikve :-)?).  As my father always points out,
   medical advances notwithstanding, the ultimate mortality rate
   remains 100%.

b. What about genetic factors?  My own (lay-person's) reading of
   the literature suggests that genetic factors account for much
   more of the variance than behavioral factors (e.g, diet).
   Depending on what particular group of charedim you look at,
   you could trace them all back to three families in some town
   in Hungary.  (Yeah, I know that the vasopressor mechanism
   suggests causality, but I still wonder.)

Eliot "She'eino tovel afilu pa'am achat but his wife does" Shimoff

-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Central Intelligence Agency Employs
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:29:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1993Jan23.002114.9268@murdoch.ac:915219499:cdp:1473600032:000:439
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Jan 25 06:29:00 1993



Prevailing Winds has promoted the work of Bo Gritz, who has written that
a handful of Jewish bankers controls the Federal Reserve. Gritz works
closely with the vicious anti-Jewish bigot Eustace Mullins. A much better
source of information about the recruitment of Nazi spys is the book
"Blowback" by Christopher Simpson.
-Chip Berlet
(for more information on fascist information sources luring progressives
see igc:publiceye conference.)
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: How do Jews reconcile science and philosophy with their faith?
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:32:56 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <44049@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:
>There seem to be many Jews (perhaps non-practising) in the sciences
>and mathematics.  Perhaps some of them even read this newsgroup.  It
>seems to me that it is difficult to reconcile various scientific
>accomplishments with religion in general.  For example, evolution
>and the big-bang theory run contrary to the account given in the
>Bible.  In the philosophical realm, I haven't heard any defenses of
>free will vs. determinism or other dilemmas given by people of a
>Jewish background.  So, how do you people do it?  "It" refers to
>reconciling your fundamental religious beliefs with the scientific
>and philosophic theories (&c.) of the day.

Even two millenia ago, many of the rabbis did not believe that the
"days" in the creation account were 24 hours.  With this in mind, 
I personally find that translating the account of Creation starting
with Genesis 1,1 according to the Big Bang to be more in agreement
with the literal Hebrew than the usual translation.  I have read 
that the Catholic Church also takes this position.  And I have seen
elsewhere the same argument which I have deduced that this mandates
man going out and living in space if possible.

The problem of evolution is another matter.  The best I can do on this
fits in with other parts of my philosophy, and that is that the Bible
was not written by God, but written by those inspired by God to do so.
There are many Jewish scientists who use arguments that it was written
by God, but that it is misread, and many famous rabbis have argued that
not all of it was to be taken literally.  There are Jewish scientists
running the entire gamut of viewpoints.

As for the problem of free will, what may very well be the "traditional"
Jewish position is that God created man with both a "good inclination" and
an "evil inclination", and that man is free.  Someone who converts his
evil inclination to do good is considered better than someone who never
sins.

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:43:09 GMT

In article <HF.93Jan25170315@whyaduck.tk.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de> hf@tk.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Harald Fuchs) writes:
>In article <1993Jan24.051110.20984@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>> Only in totalitarian states is membership in an organization a crime.

>I hope you don't think that Germany and Israel are totalitarian states.
>In Germany membership in certain terrorist and/or Nazi organizations
>is a crime. In Israel if some guys from the military think you are a
>member of Hamas, it might not be called a crime, but it can lead to
>exile in Lebanon.

Pardon me--poor phrasing.  Add the word "retrospectively" to what I said.
(I do consider the German bans on membership in organizations to be
anti-democratic, to say nothing of the 1972 Berufsverbot, btw.)  To
make SS membership illegal *in retrospect* -- after all, nobody
belonged to the SS when the post-war trials happened -- is quite different
from banning an organization *at the time.*

And that is what McCarthy and HUAC tried to do by askin, "are you now
OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN..."

Roger
From: hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:34:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.C1D79F.Aqo
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1993Jan24.004637.4505@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922177@ariel.yorku.ca (DANIEL T FARKAS) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.175050.22860@dazixco.ingr.com> raven@dazixco.ingr.com (Denise Raven) writes:

			.............................

>The Reform movement, doesn't agree with anything I just said.  They feel
>that man has the right to change the laws to "suit the times".  I can't
>explain why, but I'm sure Daniel Faigin can, so I'll leave that to him.

>Please notice that this post has not been a flame at anybody.  I have
>merely clarified the point of contention, and *why* there is a
>disagreement.

Orthodox Judaism has changed the INTERPRETATION of the laws many times
and it was sometimes "to suit the times."  In addition, it is necessary
to change the interpretation of the laws to take into account changes
in secular knowledge.  

Setting up the Academy at Javneh was a deliberate, organized strategy
to reinterpret the laws to take into account the no longer existent
Temple, and the clearly perceived need to modify the prescriptions and
proscriptions to meet the times; this is even explicit.  Many other 
changes have been made.

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)