From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: More on achcham, naaNam, madam and payirppu
Date: 12 Oct 1992 20:09:36 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

   I like to say a few more words on the meaning I gave  for
the word `madam' in my last article.
   The word `madam' has many meanings, the common one  being
`monastery'.  Other meanings include `ignorance'. In my last
article, I took the latter meaning  to  conclude  that  `ig-
norance'  was the meaning for the word `madam' considered as
a  feminine  quality.  After   reading   the   postings   by
V.Appadurai  and  Ramesh  Vaidyanadhan,  I thought about the
meaning I gave and now I find that there is another  meaning
for  `madam' as well which I did not find it in the diction-
ary  consulted  earlier,  but  in  the  `inbaththuppaal'  in
ThirukkuRaL.
    First, a reply to V.Appadurai.  I  see  that  you  don't
agree  with  me  in the meaning I gave for `madam' as a fem-
inine quality, namely `ignorance'. You may have  reasons  to
differ  from the meaning I gave, but you say in your article
that
                   Madam is NOT ignorance.
This is not true. `Ignorance' is indeed one of the  meanings
of  the  word `madam', but whether it is the meaning of `ma-
dam' as a feminine quality is debatable. As I  wrote  in  my
reply  to  Raghu  B., the word `madamai' [madam+ai] has `ig-
norance' as one of its meanings.  I will give you  a  refer-
ence  from  ThirukkuRaL,  where  the word `madam' is used as
`ignorance'.

             `naaNum maRandhEn avarmaRak kallaa_en
              maaNaa mada_nenchiR pattu.' [ KuRaL # 1297 ]
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Here `mada nenchu' means `muttaaL  nenchu' [ foolish heart
]. So we see that the word `madam' has `ignorance' or `fool-
ishness' as one of its meanings.
   Now, a reply to Ramesh Vaidyanadhan.  You  have  given  a
meaning  `the inability to express the desires' for the word
`madamai' and you have got this meaning  by  interpreting  a
*translation* of the kuRaL # 1272

             `kaN_niRaindha kaarikaik kaampErthOt pEthaikku
              peN_niRaindha neermai peridhu.'
                           ^^^^^^^^

   The translation you  referred  to  for  this  kuRaL,  the
translator says :

 "kaNNiRaintha azhakinaiyum, mOnkilaip  pOnRa  thOLinaiyumu-
daiya
  en kathaliyidam peNmaikkuriya madamai mikuthiyaka uLLathu"

    I also noticed that  you  didn't  know  the  meaning  of
`neermai' from your article, where you said,

" In the above meaning of the kuRaL, the  author  uses  `ma-
damai'  as the meaning for `nIrmai' (for which I do not know
the other meanings)."

   The word `neermai' means `quality'. [ Ref  :  V.Viswandha
Pillai.]  Also in the translation by Mu.Va. of the same kuR-
aL, Mu.Va. says,
  "kaN_niRaindha azhagum  moongil  pOnRa  thOLum  udaiya  en
kaadhalikkup peNmaiththenmai niRaindhu viLangum `iyalbu' mi-
guthiyaaga uLLadhu."
   Here Mu.Va. has taken the meaning `iyalbu' [quality]  for
the  word  `neermai'.  It is my opinion that the translation
that you consulted for the kuRaL # 1272 only means `feminine
quality' for the word `madamai'. The meaning that you got by
interpreting the *translation* by referring to  kuRaL  #1271
doesn't follow from the word `neermai'.
   I found another meaning for the word `madam' from Thiruk-
kuRaL  itself  but from some other kuRaL in `inbaththuppaal'
itself. The kuRaL is the one numbered 1089. VaLLuvar says :

             "piNaiyEr mada_nOkkum naaNum  udaiyaatku
                      ^^^^^
              aNi_evanO Edhila thandhu."

   `piNaiyEr mada nOkku' means `like a fawn's shy glance'. [
piNai  = pen maan kutti (fawn) ] So, here, VaLLuvar uses the
word `madam' to mean `iLamai' [young], `adakkam'[modesty] or
`naaNam'[shyness]. Mu.Va. has taken the meaning `iLamai' for
`madam' in his translation. From `piNaiyEr mada nOkku',  the
meaning  `shyness' and `modesty' also follow. Also here VaL-
Luvar uses the word `madam' as feminine quality in his kuRaL
as he is describing `kaadhali' [lover] in his kuRaL. One may
take any of these meanings given here for `madam' as a  fem-
inine quality.
                                         Thanks for reading,
                                            Sundara Pandian.
                                      [ sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu ]


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