HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: By the Time I get to Arizona...
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:27:42 GMT

In article <rdippold.702584808@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Mar31.220148.21414@anasaz> briand@anasaz (Brian Douglass) writes:
>>>And in the mean-time Asians communities keep their yaps shut about their
>>>problems, pool their money, and change their lives for the better, both now
>>>and for their children.  Moral, quit the belly-aching ("Woe is me!") and
>>>take care of your own problems yourself.  That applies to oneself, family,
>>>community or country.
>
>>Look at the price that they are willing to pay in order to get that American 
>>dream. Many Asian children don't care about their culture and heritage.
>
>Being successful requires giving up your heritage?  I don't think so.
>I know several vietnamese families who came over in the 60's/70's who
>still stay strong with the Vietnamese culture.  Traditions, cooking,
>the whole bit.  But the children just really don't care.  Ditto for
>other countries, it always seems to work this way
>
>	1st generation:  Tries hard to keep the culture
>	2nd generation:  Doesn't care
>	3rd generation:  "Nostalgia"
>
>This interest in African culture is interesting because it's so
>counter to the pattern.  And those involved may be a few hundred years
>removed. 
>
>
>But back to success.  Just what is is about the American Dream that is
>so counter to African culture or that would require someone to give it
>up?  Is African culture such a legacy of failure?
>-- 
>Diplomacy: The art of letting someone else have your way.


If you look at AfAms that aren't popular with whites (in general) these
AfAms are usually the ones that exhibit some sort of strong black identity.
The AfAms that whites love usually don't exhibit a strong black identity.
Vanessa Williams, for example, was loved by whites at first. She had a white
boyfriend and she even said that she didn't want to be viewed as black or 
something to that effect. After her fall from grace with white people
AfAm community supported her. She even admitted this during an interview.
Now she teaches her children about AfAm history and pride where befroe
she never mentioned such things.
     What do you mean by the question: Is African culture such a legacy of
failure ??

Dowdy Jackson
Northwestern University
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:20:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.035032.2651@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:

>I'm not afraid of YOU sentencing me to death, (although it does disturb me 
>that if I happened to be at an event in the Israeli consulate in this city
>and I was killed by a bomb, some people would be happy to hear about
>such an incident). 

You have already criticized Iran by claiming persecution of Jews.  Now, 
when it comes to providing evidence for the criticism, you're suddenly 
worried about a death sentence. Interesting!  

>Leon Gross

Behnam Sadeghi

P.S. I don't think you're really worried about a death sentence.  But if 
you are sincere, I suggest that you look through newsgroups like this one 
(soc.culture.iranian).  Half the people here must be dead by now!
From: bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:47:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.222450.13460@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:

>When I spoke with a number of the refugees from Iran who settled in
>Baltimore I found that this was not true.  This included people who
>had to smuggle themselves and their children across the desert,
>people whose parents were not allowed to communicate with them, and
>people whose parents were not allowed to send them any money (or
>help with tuition) because they went to Rabbinical College.

A lot of Iranian Muslims also left the country illegally.   The reason
is that they didn't want to serve in the military (as every Iranian male
has to do for two years).  You know, the Iran-Iraq war was going on
and the was a certain risk associated with serving in the military.

For a long time, my parents weren't allowed to send any money to me
either.  The war was going on, the government was short on $$$ and
it put specific restrictions on the flow of foreign exchange to foreign 
countries.  The result is that I haven't received a cent from Iran.  
By the way, I am a Muslim student.

In matters you mention, no difference exists between Muslims and Jews.
Please remember that I asked for evidence, not hearsay.

As for communicating with one's parents, what you mention is simply
not true.

There is only one way in which a restriction is placed on Jews: Not all
members of a Jewish family can leave Iran simultaneously, at least one
of them must remain in Iran.

The reason for this law is the following:  Israel has this law that
allows any Jew from any part of the world to obtain instant Israeli
citizenship, even if he has never been in Israel.  However, a
Palestinian person who was born in and grew up in Palestine and whose
ancestors lived in Palestine for hundreds of years... if such a
person was driven away from his home during one of the wars,
he can't return to his homeland.  The reason behind this "Law of
Return" is to increase the Jewish population of Israel and to give more
of Palestinian lands to them.  Because of this, for example, the
Bush administration doesn't let the Soviet Jews to come to the U.S.
(so that they will go to Israel), as was in the papers two years ago.

Because of this, Iran wants to discourage immigration of Jewish families
to Israel. This can be done by requiring that at least one member of
a Jewish family remain in Iran while the rest are abroad.  Normally,
this condition is very easy to meet.

There are no other restrictions on Jews.  Furthermore, as I said, they
enjoy perfect religious freedom.  

>| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
>| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |

Behnam Sadeghi

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: jlong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (John Long)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: IMHO
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:32:20 GMT


ok here goes, hope this doesn't repeat a better explaination already posted.
I am not an expert on { Iran, Bahai faith, Islam } but have some knowledge.

The reason Bahai people are persecuted in Iran is that the Iran is a 
theocracy, meaning that government and religion are merged.

Islam recognizes Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians as "people of the book". 
According to the Koran, these religions are the same "religion of God".
Mohammed was the "seal of the prophets", meaning that he has given the
final message from God to mankind.

The prophet Baha'ula came along in the 1800's with some new stuff. Since 
the government of Iran insists that Mohammed is the "last word", the
teachings of Baha'u'la are considered blasphemy, which is the worst crime
under Islam.

IOW, the so-called moslems of Iran are doing to the Bahais what the so
called christians did to the early moslems, which is what the so called
jews did to the early christians, which is what the so called ??? did 
to the early jews; i.e, persecute them, make them martyrs, create 
intrest in the new faith, and demonstrate how the old faith has become
corrupted by Jim and Tammy and the Ayatollah...

Sorry i can't spell those "B-words" too good. I used some variety, for
chance. I'll bet the guys didn't use ASCII anyhow....

Aloha,
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: Neil Hull <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
X-To: PATRICE A. SIMON
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:14:00 GMT

PAS>        I think I see where the original post is coming from. If taken from
PAS>the point of view that men (not just black men) look down upon women in this
PAS>world...I think it's at the point where our behavior is judged 'normal'. Or
PAS>is it just human nature? For instance, something I was taking note of recent
PAS>people always denote females, regardless of age, as 'girls' - even women do
PAS>this. There is no equivalent for men. Is this demeaning?

Actually..there IS an equivalent for men..."boys".

When the organisation In Search Of Justice founded a branch at the
University of Toronto, all that the spokesperson of the Women's Centre
was able to accomplish in the way of intellectual criticism was:

"I think they're a bunch of spoiled boys with nothing better to do with
their time"

Informed radical feminists, everywhere...  NOT!

 * SLMR 2.1a * 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:03:59 GMT

In article <rdippold.702716925@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>AA isn't what causes blacks to be looked at as inferior to whites, its the
>>attitude of whites which causes this.
>
>And a system in which substandard performance is subsidized isn't
>going to affect the views of those who have to deal with it?  I know
>damn well blacks aren't inferior to whites, from personal experience
>in school, at work, and off-hours.  However I am not going to give an
>Affirmative Action beneficiary the same initial level of confidence
>that I am going to give to someone who made it without such benefits.
>I don't see AA making blacks look inferior, I see it making the
>individual blacks who make it when AA is in place look inferior.  Even
>if they weren't a beneficiary of it.
>
How can you tell the difference between your AfAm colleges that have benefited
from AA from those that haven't ? White males have had their own form of AA
for centuries yet I don't hear you complaining about that... I wonder why ??

>
>>Whites just can't face up to the
>>reality that they aren't as intellegent as they think they are.
>
>Sigh, it must be nice to be a minority and be able to just fire off
>racist comments without a care in the world.
>-- 
You are only getting a taste of what AfAms get EVERY day.

Dowdy Jackson
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1387 alt.politics.correct:3615
From: djh4535@zeus.tamu.edu (HARRIS, DUANE J)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:02:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.discrimination
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr6.230013.24086@anasaz>, best@anasaz (Mike Best) writes...
> 
>  
>  Naturally, most people would _not_ feel responsible
>  for they themselves had not committed the action. 

well, i must say that noone seems to shun the benefits they gather from
the ancestors.(money, social position, ect. ect.) people want all the benefits
of their ansestory but none of the responcibility. i don't see anyone giving
back any of the money their families made off of slavery. the idea of
giving us money is stupid because it isn't given it was EARNED THROUGH
BLOOD,SWEAT, AND A WHOLE LOT OF TEARS. not to mention mental cruelty and
the things that have happened since then and are still continuing to
happen so don't say your giving us money.

>  
>  I also suggest that if compensation is handed out that the continent
>  of Africa is also held responsible for the AF-AMs own "brothers" 
>  were quite involved in obtaining the unfortunate future slaves of
>  the New World.  Address this!

sure, why not but their position isn't as extensive as the americans and also
i think their involementin the inhumanity was minimal by comparison to the
 americans
			d.j.loki seth I



Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1615 alt.politics.correct:3700 soc.culture.african:1872
From: krueger@galileo.uucp (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
Subject: cmsg cancel <1992Apr14.145832.2920@arizona.edu>
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:08:40 GMT
Distribution: world ,local
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

This message was cancelled from within rn.
Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: That's not funny.
---------- krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu ----------  
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 07:22:59 GMT

In <1992Apr13.040702.16143@wpi.WPI.EDU> padutton@wpi.WPI.EDU
 (Peter Alan Dutton) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.010909.27043@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
 dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:

>>Where are you getting your information from ? You are making statements about
>>something that you know nothing about ! Every African was at risk of being
>>enslaved by the european slave traders ! I have relatives and written accounts
>>in my family that talk about these kinds of things. It just angers me to
>>think that white people just don't want to own up and admit that THEY are
>>responsible for enslaving Africans ! NO ONE ELSE.

>They WERE responsible. I am NOT responsible for this. No arguments you can 
>make can show I was responsible. No arguments can show that any living white
>person is responsible for slavery.

	I'll take this one step further and claim that it wasn't white
people who were responsible for slavery, but a few individuals, their
color having nothing to do with the morality of their actions.

>Slavery has existed in EVERY culture. No culture is immune.

	It is interesting to note that Egyptians regularly enslaved
people, before the Jews it was the Nubians and Libyans.  The fact
that they were the same color of skin apparently didn't matter.  I
find the whole "noble savage" argument to be little more than the
ramblings of a disenchanted person with selective recall.  Dowdy
may enjoy the feeling he gets when he thinks of African slavery as
being caused by the white man, but history shows that to be wrong.

<Daniel R. Sorenson   Dod #1066  |If Iowa State University agreed with me >
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu <- work |I'd make $90K/yr.  They don't, I don't. >
<viking@iastate.edu      <- play |"I am *not* goofing off.  I am driving  >
< myself mercilessly in the pursuit of relaxation." -- T. Weeds           >

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: kenny@world.std.com (Kenneth R Crudup)
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Organization: Software Tool&Die, (Boston), MA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:28:34 GMT

In article <s34oiB1w165w@midiline.la.ca.us> pattisan@midiline.la.ca.us
(Patti Hayes) says:
>    Yes all men are created equal BUT ALL WOMEN ARE CREATED SUPERIOR!!!!!!!

"Yeah, but to what?" is the question.

Oh shit, that's not very P.C., is it? Damn.

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Unix Systems Consultant	kenny@world.std.com
16 Plainfield St. Jamaica Plain, (Boston), MA 02130-3633
Home +1 617 524 5929 	Home Fax +1 617 983 9410
							Lick Bush in '92!
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: By the Time I get to Arizona...
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:01:22 GMT

dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>This is bad? I don't cling to my ancestor's German/Dutch/English/Scottish
>>backgrounds, and I don't feel any loss.

>But that's you ! It seems that those of you from european ancestory want the
>rest of us to follow in your footsteps. If you want to forget who you are
>then fine. But its easy for you since everything is set up for you to
>get ahead. 

So how about the Italians?  They do fine, and many still maintain a
strong Italian heritage.
-- 
Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:24:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

RD (Ron Dippold):
>So how about the Italians?  They do fine, and many still maintain a
>strong Italian heritage.

VA:
>***** I don't know of any Italians who live in the ghetto; do you?

RD:
No, they escaped the Italian ghettos.  As did the Poles and others As I said,
they've made it.

***** And their skin color was never a 'disadvantage' for them. Also, were guns
and drugs as rampant then as they are now, in the inner cities? Was crack in
existence back then? 
***** 

VA:
>Also, they need not concern themselves with being the 'wrong color'. 

RD:
Vietnamese?

***** They also have to worry about intolerance. You are implicitly comparing
one group to another. Each group has a different set of experiences, beliefs
and values. As I have stated before (at least several times) Asians (Orientals,
to be more precise) have always favored the mental over the physical, just like
the Jews. They have not found success here in professional athletics and the 
entertainment industry (in general) as African-Americans have. So it should not
be surprising many young African-Americans aspire to become professional ath-
letes or entertainers. Additionally many African-Americans (and Hispanic-Ameri-
cans and girls) are discouraged from taking the advanced math & science courses
that might have lead them to pursue a math/science/engineering major in college
Asians have been exploited here but they were never enslaved and they always
managed to preserve their culture. You don't get it, do you? 
*****

VA:
>Additionally, you are mistaken to compare one group with another. The African-
>American experience is unique and no group has had to endure so much injustice
>and suffering as they as well as being taught that they are inferior.

RD:
The Jews might dispute that.

***** I concur, only if we do not limit ourselves to the U.S., to which I was
referring. No group has suffered as much as African-Americans in America. 
*****

Peace.

-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
From: sepehr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ramin S.)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:41:08 GMT
Organization: UB


I remember after the revolution back in 1977 in Iran the most brutal and
outragous crime that I have ever seen in my whole life occurred . 

A neighborhood of Bahai's was attacked by fanatic muslims and the
entire neighborhood was torn down and burnt to ashes . This happened
in Shiraz , south of Iran . Nothing was left but burnt bodies and
screaming mothers and crying babies . The houses were so burnt that it
seemed like it was painted black purposedly . 

I condemn those who are responsible for that to death , I also condemn
a religion such as Islam in which there is no respect for other
religions eventhough I was born in a muslim family . Not only they
have no respect , but also they force others to accept their cr*p and 
any objection will result death . 

Be a human first then think about becoming a muslim   ... 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: Neil Hull <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Fred Leuchter was *N (1)
X-To: RALPH WINSTON
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 00:47:00 GMT

RW>"    See my scant comments above, you lying idiot,  (stuff deleted...)

Well, I see that BOTH sides are not exactly immune to name-calling, are
they?

(There...JUST in case some of you were paranoid enough to think that I
am defending Mr. Winston....For the 10000th time, I am not defending ANYONE,
and if I have to say it again, I think "I'm gonna throw up"...)

 * SLMR 2.1a *
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Race Relations Survey (Cal-Berkeley graduation rates)
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:16:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Race Relations Survey

Considering the problems of the AfAm community, any pre-AA
accomplishments wouldn't be disparged, they would be admired.

***** By whom? By Klan members and other such individuals?

Berkely graduation rate for Whites & Asians -- 70%
Berkley grad rate for Black AA students     -- 18% after 5 yrs.

***** What is your source for the above? What about the other 82%? Do they go
on to graduate in 6 years, transfer to other schools, or do they drop out be-
cause they lack the financial resources to continue their studies?

Peace.
*****

-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: RE: W.C. of AfAms
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:43:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From simon Fri Apr 10 01:52:11 EDT 1992
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: simon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrice A. Simon)
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans

In article <1992Apr9.002153.24300@acsu.buffalo.edu> arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>
>**** And their skin color was never a 'disadvantage' for them. Also, were guns
>and drugs as rampant then as they are now, in the inner cities? Was crack in
>existence back then? 
>***** 

	Oh, come on! You've got to stop basing your thoughts purely on skin 
color! After all, certain European ethnic groups did experience problems when
they first came to the US in record numbers - part of the eqaution was their
state of poverty too. They had to fit in by purging their identities (names,
language, etc.) 
	I am in no way relating this to African Americans - however the fact
we're dealing with skin color does not automatically mean that no one else
experienced hardships in the US! Living standards (among other things) were
just as bad relatively as drugs and guns are today. I am not defending any-
one, just making sure you're aware.

***** When/where did I ever say that European immigrants to the U.S. never suf-
fered hardships? Sorry, I'm not into revisionism...that's Ralph Winston's de-
partment. But those European immigrants have assimilated and are prospering
while the current state of African-Americans leaves much to be desired and they
have been here for several hundred years. I don't deny what's happened in the
past, I'm just more concerned with 'the here-and-now'. 

Peace.
*****
-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african