HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY HISTORY
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:04:11 GMT
Reply-To: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

msm@mse.cmu.edu (Mark S McWhinney) writes:

*******

Imagine you are a hiring manager.  You have two candidates who have
similar backgrounds.  Each candidate gave you a well written resume
with nice adjectives.  You have talked to both candidates in person.
They are both qualified for the position.  Who do you choose?  

Hint: You know from experience that bad resumes nearly always mean
poor workers, but good resumes do not necessarily mean that candidates
will be a good employees.  You also know that you cannot evaluate a
person in only a few hours.  You have to turn to the people who have
worked with the candidates day in and day out for many years.
However, you know that even the worst employees can usually find three
people who will say something nice about them.  

You end up choosing the candidate who's salary history shows some ups
and downs but is generally good with respect to the environment from
which he/she came.

******

Ok.  That helps to understand the usage of salary information in evaluating
a prospective employee.  A question (using someone else's numbers from the 
same post):  What I interviewed for a position which you had budgeted 30-40K
for.  My salary history showed good advancement within my organization.  
Would I get an offer from within your budgeted range or one below your 
budgeted range but above my current salary?  Many people, myself included,
do not want to get an offer lower than what would normally be offered just
because they were making less money previously.

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
Bad opening line #106:
     "Say, you own the 'Buns of steel' video, don't you?"
***  Warning: This signature expires on 30-NOV-92!  *******************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: cm@impmh.uucp (Colin Manning)
Subject: I've been offered a job in NJ - need to qualify the salary - help rqd
Keywords: salary NJ
Organization: Integrated Micro Products Ltd
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:11:33 GMT

I am a fairly experienced sw developer with 8 yrs post university experience
in sw development.

I have just been offered a job in the New Jersey area, as a senior 
sw developer working in the MS windows apps sw devt area. The
salary being offered is $52k.

Can anyone currently working in this part of the US please give me
an idea of how this compares to 'average' salaries for this type of
role in NJ.  Am I being ripped off, or is this an offer I should not
refuse ? 

If you could also give me an idea how much it costs to
rent an apartment that'd be useful too.

For obvious reasons, please reply by MAIL!

Many thanks,
-- 
Colin Manning     cm@impmh.uucp      Tel: +44 753 516599
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: purple@decwd.ece.uiuc.edu ( )
Subject: Re: USENET Salary Survey
Reply-To: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:42:05 GMT

In article <BxJ0qL.5Ls@dale.cts.com>, npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
|> Has anyone ever toyed with the idea of maintaining a salary survey on 
|> usenet?  I was thinking that we could post a message here every month
|> asking for participants.  Folks could mail their salary and job title


I am interested in this info as well......
Someone could get the information from societies as well....
IEEE in Washington surveys and summarizes this info for engineers


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: fineman@kronos-arclan.arc.nasa.gov (Charles Fineman)
Subject: How long a time span from accepting 'til starting?
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Distribution: misc
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:25:55 GMT


I'm planning on looking for a new job soon (my employer knows this.)
I know it's tough out there now, but that's not the point of this post
(I have some fairly solid fallbacks.) My problem is that I want to
start looking as soon as possible but I am not willing to start until
March 1st (I've planned lengthy vacations in February.) I plan to
start sending out resumes next month, and I plan to state my starting
requirements in the cover letter. The question is, how long will most
employers be willing to wait for me to start. One source has told me
that 6 weeks is about the limit. My current job allowed my 3 months,
but that was a special case, I'm doing research and I was particularly
well qualified for this position. 

So, any factual knowledge would be appreciated.

	Thanks,

		Chuck

--
From: tgross@bingo.prime.com (Tom Gross)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Can you fight termination w/o cause?
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:01:38 GMT
Reply-To: tgross@bingo.prime.com (Tom Gross)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computervision

> |> >rich@progress.COM (Rich Lenihan) writes:
> |> >>A friend of mine just informed me that they've been terminated
> |> >> [...]
> |> >>fact, already made an offer for the same position to an outside
> |> >>candidate.  This person thinks they were fired for "personal" 
> |> >>reasons.
> |> >>
> |> >>Is this legal?  Does the employee have any legal recourse?  I
> |> >>advised them to see an attorney but will fighting this "burn"
> |> >>them in the long run?  This all happened in Massachusetts, if
> |> >>it matters.


	I happened to serve recently on a jury in Massachusetts where
	someone was sueing their former empolyer for unlawful dismissal.
	In this suit, the plaintiff was trying to argue that either they
	had been dismissed for acting as a whistle blower (complaining
	that the company was doing something unlawful) OR that there
	had been an implied contract guaranteeing a job as long as the
	employee followed "the rules".  The judge threw out the 
	first count before sending it to us, the jury.  She explained
	to us afterwards (in the jury room) that apparently there are
	laws designed to protect whistle-blowers explicitly and that 
	is just about the only protection an "at-will employee" has.
	She threw out the count because it was so obvious that the
	employee had not been acting as a whistle-blower.  We ruled
	against the plaintiff on the second count for a number of reasons;
	I felt the most compelling was that it seemed clear that the
	company retained the right to unilaterally renegotiate the terms
	of any contract, which as I understood from the judge's instructions
	meant there wasn't a contract to begin with.  In other words,
	FORGET ABOUT IT.  We didn't spend a lot of time deliberating -
	maybe 45 minutes not counting a free lunch we got.

-Tom


> |> >
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY HISTORY
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:16:01 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

msm@mse.cmu.edu (Mark S McWhinney) writes:

>As I said before, universities are a black hole to meaningful salary
>histories.  Salary histories before, during, and just after school
>have little to do actual worth.  I know of no one who believes that
>your salary last summer at McDonalds has any bearing on your worth as
>an entry level mechanical engineer or what ever your chosen profession
>is.

Just a thought - there _are_ some of us who *work* at educational 
institutions who are not students (ever hear of "staff"?).  I've been
out of school for 8 years, but just can't seem to kick my academia
jones (but pay someone else to talk at me for hours?  no thanks...)

>Imagine you are a hiring manager.  You have two candidates who have
>similar backgrounds.  Each candidate gave you a well written resume
>with nice adjectives.  You have talked to both candidates in person.
>They are both qualified for the position.  Who do you choose?  

>Hint: You know from experience that bad resumes nearly always mean
>poor workers, but good resumes do not necessarily mean that candidates
>will be a good employees.  You also know that you cannot evaluate a
>person in only a few hours.  You have to turn to the people who have
>worked with the candidates day in and day out for many years.
>However, you know that even the worst employees can usually find three
>people who will say something nice about them.  

>You end up choosing the candidate who's salary history shows some ups
>and downs but is generally good with respect to the environment from
>which he/she came.

Not necessarily - often you end up choosing (a) the female or minority
candidate (no flames - this is reality, not "the perfect world") or 
(b) the candidate you liked better.  You probably also introduced
both prospects around (and if you were smart, had others interview them
as well), and you got the others' perceptions of the "best fit" for
your particular group.

In _my_ hiring decisions, salary history, when presented (we *don't*
generall ask), is a first pass tool only ("My ghod - this one makes
more than *I* do - they probably won't want the job!", etc).

Remember, getting hired (and hiring) is more of a second-guessing
game than anything - it's perfectly possible to hire the *wrong* person
no matter *how* much care you take.

--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: fssteve@fuso.lerc.nasa.gov (Steven Nash)
Subject: Headhunters in the Bay area
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:48:34

Hi,

I'm looking for names of headhunters in the Bay area.  My degree is
in Mechanical Engineering, and I'm looking for something in the
fluids/thermal area specifically.  Thanks for any info!

Steve Nash
fssteve@fuso.lerc.nasa.gov
From: harryb@phred.UUCP (harry barnett)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Postings by non-online "Online Career Ctr"
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:58:42 GMT
Reply-To: harryb@phred.UUCP
Distribution: usa
Organization: Physio-Control

In article 1dmivdINNbo1@nigel.msen.com, wwarren@msen.com (Online Career Ctr) writes:
>
>***
> 
>For more information about these exciting jobs, call or send
>your resume (NO ONLINE RESPONSES PLEASE) to Mr. Jan M. Ackerman,
>ABRAXAS International Inc., 950 South Winter Park Drive, Dept OC,
>Casselberry, Florida 32707, (800) 767-8704 FAX (407) 260-0590.

In the last few days, twenty-eight postings to misc.jobs.offered having this apparent misnomer in them have been made by this originator.  To me, calling itself an "Online Career Ctr" while refusing online responses reflects somewhat adversely on the originator's credibility.

Would anyone else find it useful to have the  "NO ONLINE RESPONSES" on the subject line?
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu ( )
Subject: Re: USENET Salary Survey
Reply-To: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:10:20 GMT

|> 
|> Now, the operative question: WHO IS VOLUNTEERING TO COLLECT, ORGANIZE,
|> AND DISTRIBUTE THIS DATABASE???????
|> 
|> ---
|> An interested participant with too little spare time.
|> 
|> Dan Hagedorn.
|> 
|> 

Why me.  If you wish to post anonymously, send your information to me.
I will post it without your name.

Anonymous info: Job description, Salary (Yearly before taxes and rough
estimate of hourly or an average of hours pre week you spend for your
yearly), Geographic location, and employer (not required)

Please yield as much anonymous info as possible as it will help you and
others in your field.

Me?  I get to see the info.  That's why I'm doing this.

If enough supply, I will post regular summaries.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul R. Hayes
purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: gcm@fns-nc1.fns.com (Grover McCoury)
Subject: Re: Cost of Living & Salaries in NW Florida?
Organization: Fujitsu Network Switching
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 13:41:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.151600.16161@esds.mdc.com> bonney@esds.mdc.com (Greg Bonney) writes:
>I have a Unix System Adminstration job lead in Shalimar, Florida.
>(Near Eglin AFB.)  What's the cost of living?  How about salary
>ranges?

One major point to consider -> Florida has 0% state income tax. Depending on
what state you are moving from this can be a substantial increase in pay.

Just $.02 worth from...

/**********************************************************************
  Grover McCoury
  @ Fujitsu Network Switching Of America, Inc.
    4403 Bland Road
    Raleigh,    NC   27609
  audio:      919-790-3111
  electronic: ...!mcnc!fns-nc1!gcm
***********************************************************************/
From: jpp@StarConn.com (John Pettitt)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Interview
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:27:51 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

asriniva@vela.acs.oakland.edu (MONK) writes:
>Hi folks

>I had recently posted a question on how to answer some interview questions
>like Tell me about urself.? I had recieved lot responses from the readers
>I thank u all,I just attended an interview, I would like to post some of
>the general questions asked.

>Q1. What are ur strengths  & Weakness ?
>  Weakness is a tricky one.

Your strengths should be the ones they need for the job - you did sak
what they were looking for.  As to weeknesses there are two good
responses.  1) I get a little impatient with people who do not pull
their full weight.  or if you thnk you can carry it off 2) <pause>
<scratch head> <take off glasses and look thoughtfull> in the context of
this job I don't think I have any. (this can be verry effective if done
well).

>Q2. What do u forsee urself in 10 years from now.?

Well <joking> I'M not a fortune teller,  however I would like to advance
my and would hope that the company feels my performacne merits
additional responsibility.

>Q3. Why do u think i should hire u?

See #1.  This is a good opportunity to re state their requirments (shows
you listened and understood) and your ability to fill them
(substantiates claims with experience and or qualifications).

>Q4. Which do u prefer working in a group or alone ?

What does the job require ?

>These were some of the questions asked.

These and others are called `crutch' questions and are used to lean on
then the interviewer have nothing else to ask.    As a general rule give
hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions and if you don't know
what they are looking for give a bottome line answer. e.g.

What sort of manager are you ?

A .... .... with an emphsis on controlling costs and growing the bottom
line. 

(this changes slightly for non-profit or academic but the principle
holds).


-- 
John Pettitt					jpp@starconn.com
Archer N81034					apple!starnet!jpp
Me, say that, never: It's a forged posting!	Fax:   +1 415 967 8682
						Voice: +1 415 967 UNIX
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Subject: Re: job seeker needs advice
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:37:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov06.204201.15329@utoday.com> ehall@cmpny.sscnet.ucla.edu (Eric Hall) writes:

[sad story about someone else's DUIs deleted]

>I'll tell you what my brother's parole officer told him (he sold pot):
>
>"Lie through your teeth. They can't check, unless they look up the newspaper 
>in the town where it happened."

Wrong! All it takes is a simple (five minute) background check, and it
shows up. It's on your driving record, my dear (not like pot-selling),
and it shows up forever, unlike speeding tickets and the like that are
removed after three years (or whatever the rule is in your state).
This information stays on your record even if you go to traffic school
and think that it will be expunged. All that happens is that the
information is not available to your insurance company.

When you go to work for someone, you usually sign something that
allows them to make a background check on you, and... Bingo! There it
is! You lied on your application, and you can be fired without cause!

Don't lie, just attach an explanation and hope for the best. You'll
just have to try harder and be better.

Good luck, Lynda
-- 

shrdlu@rowan.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True)
Work Phone - (310) 812-1660 or (310) 812-1570
From: robert@cpvax.cpses.tu.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: code samples?
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:29:24 CST
Organization: Texas Utilities, Glen Rose TX 

In article <1d8qjdINNpuf@uwm.edu>, fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov) writes:
> How can one present one's code samples if this person was not self employed,
> thus does not own even a single line of the code he/she has written because
> all this code is an asset of the companies this person worked for and is
> protected by the law?
> 

You could just show a single subroutine. (A page or two)

I agree that most employers own the program, but a small part is probably
ok.  Small quotes from a book is not considered a copyright violation.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Eden    817-897-0491                                 Glen Rose, TX
Comanche Peak Steam Electric Station            robert@cpvax.cpses.tu.com
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ politicese for a nuke plant
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu ( )
Subject: CS salary anonymous
Reply-To: purple@emcdec1.ece.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:09:49 GMT


Full Time: Individual Contributor, database porting and value adds
	   Tasks include platform specific error resolution and C
	   programming

Experience: 11 years, CS degree

Salary: 55K


Part Time: Motif/C programming for end-user applications

Salary: $35/hour approx 20 hours/week


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul R. Hayes

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee)
Subject: Re: USENET Salary Survey
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:09:26 GMT

In article <BxJ0qL.5Ls@dale.cts.com>, npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan) writes:
>Has anyone ever toyed with the idea of maintaining a salary survey on 
>usenet?  I was thinking that we could post a message here every month
>asking for participants.  Folks could mail their salary and job title
>to the person who maintains this proposed survey and a summary is posted
>each month.
>
>I've always been convinced that sharing such information is in 
>everyone's best interest.  Is anyone else interested in collaborating?
>We've got a marvelous resource here for doing it...

Yup I'm interested.  Maybe for reasons you wouldn't approve of.  I'm interested
for the sake of offsetting (what I perceive to be) the unfair advantage
personnel types have over us vis a vis fact that Information=Power.  Hope my
motives aren't tooo political for this project.

>And you know what would make this really, really interesting is if
>we could collect information about what various companies pay for
>various jobs.  What power this would give to prospective employees!!!!
>Of course, all this would be done in a fashion to protect the anonimity
>of each reporting employee.
>
>Here's the info I think could be collected:
>
>Job Title		Salary	  	Geographic Location	Company
>Chief Bottle Washer	$30,000		Philadelphia		Bottles R Us
>
>Maybe having # of years experience would be appropos as well.  I dunno.
>So, what do we misc.job.misc'ers think of this idea?  Please post your
>replies if possible, I get FAR too much e-mail as it is.

OK, just this once; but one could argue to the effect that the net gets FAR too
much e-mail, too!

Are us non-career types allowed to throw off the curve?

 Job Title		Salary	  	Geographic Location	Company
 Data entry operator    $7.50/hr        Sterling Heights, MI    Manpower, Inc.


Also:  I've toyed with the idea of a worker owned and controlled placement
service.  But employer types would probably boycott it for obvious reasons.

Which reminds me of another idea that's been in the back of my mind:
Since the apparently permanent labor glut makes the strike weapon
obsolete...howz about a "general boycott" to send the message to the economists
that job security, not low interest rates or high stock prices or other
trickle-down B.S., is the only thing that will loosen consumer purse-strings. 
In other words, an organized effort to put the business cycle at the mercy of
the labor cycle for once.  And just in time for the XMAS shopping season!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter Lee    w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu

Don't blame me, I didn't vote!
From: rustomji@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Eric Rustomji)
Subject: LIST OF AVAILABLE NEWSGROUPS
Keywords: Job newsgroups
Organization: Western Michigan University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:07:40 GMT

Hi there,

I would appreciate if anybody could send me a list of all the
possible job-hunt related newsgroups on the network. It would
be great if you could email it to me.

Thanks in advance.
--
Eric

---------------------------------------------------------------
"The World is full of Surprises!"

Eric  Rustomji         
Department of Computer Science    Systems/Lab Consultant
Western Michigan University       University Computing Services

Home Phone: (616) 387 - 5566
       UCC: (616) 387 - 6426

Email:  rustomji@cs.wmich.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: kirk@tallis.enet.dec.com (Matthew B. Kirk)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: ATTENTION! Software Engineers!
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:48:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1992Nov9.195104.7677
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <2239@indep1.UUCP>, clifto@indep1.UUCP (Cliff Sharp) writes...
>In article <1992Nov4.115450.2022@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> smithdv@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>>Questions:
>>	6.  What might one expect in salary at entry level?
> 
>    Depends on area.  In Chicago, $16000 to $22000 is about right.


This sounds VERY low (as someone else noted).  Try looking in industry
(commercial) publications.  Also, the IEEE publishes a salary survey
every so often (yearly) that's quite detailed.

=============================================================================
Matthew Kirk				  	     kirk@tallis.enet.dec.com

All opinions expressed here are mine and do not reflect those of Digital
Equipment Corporation.
=============================================================================
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: USENET Salary Survey
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:09:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Nov12.162325.24126@dsd.es.com> pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
>
>                                                              Someone
>programming databases and someone programming scientific applications
>might both be considered "applications programmers", for example, but
>they pay veries widely.
>-- 
>
>   -paul	pmartz@dsd.es.com
>		Evans & Sutherland

In which direction? Do tell!

Paul "Someone programming databases"
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt)
Subject: Questions about Tucson, AZ
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:50:11 GMT


Hiya...my boyfriend and I are thinking about moving to a warm state next
year, and Tucson, Arizona is our first choice for several reasons. But
we'd like to hear about any pros and cons of living in Tucson. (We're
computer programmers with several years of experience, by the way.)

Thanks,
--
                    Angeli "Ms. Pepper" Wahlstedt
 
Portal: ms-pepper@cup.portal.com
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Headhunters in DC
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:08:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Nov8.190852.6452
Reply-To: dise@oregon.uoregon.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

Hi,

I'm looking for headhunters in the DC/Falls Church area.  My skill areas are  
in education and computer/networking technology.

Please email me, so as not to clutter up this group.

Thanks!
David.