HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:45:28 GMT

pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.043044.26864@marlin.jcu.edu.au>, cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>>>philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>>>>Who cares about games. These won't be colour systems, and anyway games will
>>>>>move off computer platforms within 2 years.
>> 
>> Don't be too doubtful about this.  I skimmed an Amiga Format magazine
>> in the newsagency the other day and there was an editoral comment on how
>> the Amiga was in trouble (remember this is a British mag.).  Amiga games
>> are only selling 6-7000 copies despite the number of Amigas being greater
>> than 3 million.  Piracy is the problem, and games for consoles are selling
>> more copies, hence many developers are leaving the Amiga even in the
>> games market.  

>Still, the posting said that games would move off all computer platforms,
>not just the Amiga, within 2 years.  Frankly, I don't believe this will
>happen to the IBM clone world.  I would very much like to know Mr.
>McDunnough's reasoning in this matter.

Yeah, with IBM games, there is SO much too them, it's worth it to
buy the games rather than copy it on zillions of disks and photocopy
those odd-sized THINK mauals.
>pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:05:56 GMT

In <1992Jul23.020111.8441@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   Commodore controls the sources to the OS.  Commodore controls the layouts
>and internal specs for thecustom chips.  Without both of these, no Amiga
>clones are possible.

Microsoft controls the sources of the OS..
And chipsets can be reengineered (ppl to that with complete processors).

Of course, C= must be willing to _sell_ the OS separately. Currently it
does !

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:38:56 GMT

philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:

>Most people make very little use of a computer's capabilities. Of course 
>programmers are an exception, but they are small in number. As far as I can
>tell Communications, Word Processing, Speadsheets, Painting at an elementary
>level and playing games is what most people use their PC's for. 

  I'm not sure you understand what you think computers SHOULD be used for.
I personally think they should be used a lot more for information access, 
but the problem is that the communications infrastructure across the
world is lagging the computer.  The power at the home is there - we just
don't have 1.5Mb/s lines into every home yet.

>Home finances can be
>done with a calculator.

  Or a slide rule, or an abacus, or pencil and paper.  Gee, I wonder
why people don't think these are such good ideas (hint: there's this
thing called TIME.  It translates to money).  That's why lots of people
pay accountants to do their taxes.

>to me is the Amiga. The Mac and PC worlds will force you into a 2cond
>mortgage with their upgrades every 3 months.
                                    ^^^^^^^^
  Just a slight exaggeration, Philip?  

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
From: addison@pollux.usc.edu (Richard Addison)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anybody care to crush this Falcon Rumor?
Date: 25 Jul 1992 16:26:32 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In <1992Jul21.062153.23976@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>>: Maybe the vapor is nitrous oxide (laughing gas)?

>    Actually, I think that's "nitric oxide".

OK, Marc, the next time you go to the dentist insist on nitric oxide.
Accept no substitutes!

Nitric oxide is a colorless, slightly water-soluble gas, NO, used chiefly as
an intermediate in the manufacture of nitric acid from ammonia.

Nitrous oxide is a sweet-smelling, sweet-tasting, nonflammable gas, N2O, that
sometimes produces a feeling of exhilaration when inhaled:  used chiefly as an
anesthetic, in the manufacture of chemicals, and as an aerosol.  Also called
laughing gas.

[This information is from the Random House College Dictionary, (c) 1982.]

Again you demonstrate that what you think does not correspond well with
reality.  At least you said "I think that's" rather than "You are wrong,
it's."

>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------
>"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
>                                --new campaign slogan
From: mjl@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Maurice J. LeBrun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:46:53 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <14n78oINNsqk@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>What would you say a few years back when a DOS user said: who needs 
>multitasking?  who needs 4096 colors?  who needs digital stereo sound?  
>who needs more than 640K?  You'd probably laugh in his face, right?

The mythical DOS user you mention would have dismissed multitasking, etc.
out of hand, i.e.  without any knowledge of how useful it could be.  Yes,
that would be worthy of a knowing smirk or two. 

>Now I'm seeing Amiga users saying: who needs VM?  who needs DIG?  who needs
>memory protection, resource tracking and all that crud?

VM: I need it on my HP 720 'Snake', and on the Sparcstations I use.  On my
Amiga?  Ha ha.  I have 8 MB of RAM on my A3000 and have never come close to
using it all.  Whether I have 10, 20, 30, background processes going, 1, 2,
3, 4, or more screens.  And if I do ever find myself running out, I'll buy
another 4MB of memory for about $250 to plug into the motherboard.  Your
mileage may vary, this is just my experience.  BTW, Crays have no VM. 

DIG: I guess you missed the screaming 'We need DIG!!' wars a while back.
It's supposed to be coming.

Protection/resource-tracking: mostly useful to software developers,
although there are few Amiga users that haven't been bitten by the lack of
it at one time or another.  As a user, I can do without it, especially if
the performance is an issue (I don't know).  As a developer, I'd have a
hard time living without it (I develop for Unix-based systems).  Mixed bag. 

>Times sure have changed, huh?

No, not really.  Still seeing far too many asinine messages posted to the
net. 

Maurice LeBrun    mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu
Institute for Fusion Studies, University of Texas at Austin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 26 Jul 92 09:34:09 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Jul25.214840.24771@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson) writes:
>>                                                                            > 
>>
>>However, none of these operating systems rival the power of Kickstart or    
>>OS/2. Kickstart compares very favorably to OS/2 in power.
>>
> 
> This is where I disagree.
> --
Jerry,

	Have you ever even been near an Amiga?  An I really mean have you used
	an Amiga with 2.04 for a sufficient length of time to get over the
	initial "it's not Windows or OS/2 shock."  If so, I think you would
	find that is very comparable in functionality to Windows or OS/2.

	As far as memory protection, I fail to see the big deal about not
	having it.  If you run good software, your memory should never get
	trashed.  Now if your a developer, that's a different story.
	I mean you have to kill -9 processes on Un*x occasionally.

	As for VM, it again is over-rated.  you can always put in more
	memory.

	I think weighting your equation with 10e6*memory protection +
	10e6 * VM + 1.0 * everthing else is silly.

	I am sorry about butting in or if you now feel the need to flame
	me.  I generally like reading your posts even if you advocate
	clones.  You are generally quite level headed and thoughtful.

						Fred

> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> | Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
> |    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> |           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
> |                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not claiming any organization **
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:02:28 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul30.144130.28768@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:
> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
> >OK, looks like you mentioned 4 or 5 "must have" games for the PC.  Can anyone
> >name one for the Amiga?
>
> DarkCastle!  ;) ;) ;) ;)
> haven't you heard of Dark Castle before, Mike??? ;) ;)
>
> Actually, I have never seen Amiga's Dark Castle.  Dark Castle is very
> famous among Mac people though.  I saw my friend playing it.
>

Dark castle, just like 99.9% (if not all) Amiga games, sold well for
a couple of months then sales dropped dramatically.  Despite outstanding
reviews from AmigaWorld and Amazing Computing.  Tell me something released
in the last 6 months that is something I really want to have...

> Yours Sincerely,
> Kelvin
> e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
>
> >--
> >Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
> >Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
> >Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
> >1124 Fremont Ave.
> >Los Altos, CA 94024

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 10:11:36 GMT

In article <192372@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.082255.10980@utstat.uucp>, philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>You've stated before that you thought that games would move off the computer
>platforms over the next couple of years, but you've declined to state your
>reasoning and declined to post any evidence.

Although you're not addressing this to me, I thought I'd barge on in anyway.

I bought a copy of the British games magazine "The One" a couple of days
ago for an interview with some well known programmers.  They included :

- Jez San (Starglider I & II and other stuff)
- David Braben (Elite, Virus and Elite II coming soon!)
- Eric ? (one of the Bitmap Brothers)
- and someone from Bullfrog (who produced Populus).

They said a few interesting things :

- Console games outsell Amiga games both in value and in quantity.  The
reason they suggested was piracy.

- They were still going to support the Amiga, but development was moving
towards the consoles.

- The new Super Nintendo was going to affect Amiga sales a lot.

- The Amiga was obsolete and in need of a major upgrade (but we all knew
this anyway).  They did like the Amiga sound though.

- US programmers write huge programs that took a lot of disks in high-level
languages.  British programmers generally use assembly.  They felt US programs
underwent superior bug-testing.

- C= engineers were good.  C= management sucked (again old news in this
group).

- They were dumping the Atari ST :-)

>Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: Amiga Future?!?
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 04:13:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul18.030756.18349@ariel.ec.usf.edu> stelmack@eggo.tmc.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack) writes:
>The Amiga community is THRIVING here in Tampa, FL, and from e-mail discussions
>seems to be moving well in Texas. I work for an Amiga retailer, and was hired
>during a recent EXPANSION. System sales have picked up recently, despite all
>the talk of gloom and doom. Lots of third party companies have been releasing
>new Amiga products and revising old ones, including us. Commodore may be
>trying to kill the Amiga through inaction, but it definitely survives despite
>them.

What is this?  Good news?  Are you trying to corrupt this group or
something?  Please leave Greg!

(insert large dose of smileys throughout).

>-- Greg Stelmack (stelmack@eggo.csee.usf.edu)

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:01:10 GMT

Ummm... I was wondering why people shelled out the money to buy game
consoles instead of computers, when they could get all the advantages of
a fully functional home computer for only a few dollars more, in the long
run... when I saw the suggested retail price of some games...

Can you say, sticker shock?  I mean, come on... $90?

How is it, that high quality books, which take massive investments of
time and energy to research, write and produce, and multi-million
dollar movies, can all sell for $20 to $30... and companies are demanding
unimaginable sums for their videogames?

It makes a console attractive.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Gameboy
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:25:22 GMT

aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) says:
>>A couple guys a work just bought Lynxes.  It is a neat little game
>>system.  The Gameboy is much more popular, though.  Besides, my brother
>>tells me that Nintendo has a color SuperGameboy planned.
>
>By the time Nintendo releases their color GameBoy, Atari will already
>rule among color portables.  I heard their Batman Returns campaign was
>a major success and they sold out in most places.

Heh, I bet Ninetendo releases their color GameBoy before Commodore
releases RTG.  If not, I will eat floppy disks... naaah.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:44:56 GMT

thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>> 	IBM must have released the 586, and lots of people must be out
>> 	there eating floppy disks.
>
>You'll be waiting forever for IBM to release the 586 because Intel
>makes the 80x86 line of CPU's.

While you are at it, why not inform him that not too many people eat
floppy disks?  Even the sarcastic posts get flamed now...

By the way, does not AMD (or some such) also make 80x86 processors?

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:57:54 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: Oh, this is BS.  How much would it slow down the machine?  5%?  You wouldn't
: even notice that.  A slightly faster CPU would take care of the difference
: and then some.

Memory protection can and generally DOES slow it down a HELL of a lot
more than 5%.  Try 58%.  That was using my friend's MP-added CD-RTOS
system.  That gives it MP and resource tracking.  And it was next
to unusable.  Sure, it had it, but it was next to unusable.  58,
Jerry.  That's enough to go from productive to unproductive in 13.8
seconds.

And, might I add, he's a DAMN good programmer.  So I don't think it
was the code.

: You should have said so in the first place.  Sheesh, multitasking can't be
: added to MS-DOS, so they call it "braindead"; memory protection can't be
: added to AmigaDOS, so they call it "a design decision".  Give me a break.

I don't care if they CAN.  If they DO, I want it turned OFF.

: Oh please.  Name an OS which has been implemented both with and without
: memory protection on the same machine.  That would be the only way to make a
:fair comparison.  I'll tell you one thing, though -- SVR4 runs a hell of a lot
: faster on my 386 than did Minix, and guess which one has MP?

I'll name 2 68000 ones that I've seen with MP.  The first was OS/9,
the second CD-RTOS.  And guess what...  BOTH slow down to an
incredible degree when they ran with MP up.

MP is necessary for good development to ensure bug-free software.  On
the user's end, it's far less needed.  Rather than MP, I'd rather see
the OS make sure it's getting what it's supposed to from the various
calls, it would be far more useful than MP, IMHO.

And it probably wouldn't slow down the system quite as badly.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:31:24 GMT

To my mind, games on consoles are still underpowered, and being limited 
to the TV resolutions, nowhere near enough interesting... few of the
games I see in arcades impress me.  I had a Genesis here with 10 games...
the only on that grabbed me was Streets of Rage, and I grew bored with it
after 20 hours in four days... on a 19" T.V.  I saw what looked like an
RGB connector in the back, but couldn't figure out how to connect it to my
1084.

The T.V. makes the games blurry, limits the resolution, washes out the 
colors...

Compared to Amiga on RGB, get blown away... SpeedBall2 is the most awesome.

CBM should market OEM'd arcade machines.

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Dave Hanie for C= Chairman of Board of Diretors! was Re: LET'S RESC
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:13:29 GMT

In article <mykes.0awt@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>    I think this was the single biggest blunder on Commodore's part.  This is
>> what caused the A2000 to be a piece of crud system compared to what it should
>> have been; the A2000 was released almost two years after the A1000, and
>> contained no improvements at all other than some slots.
>>
>
>CBM didn't blunder as much as you imply.  As I already said, the Amiga 1000 was
>an incompetent product and fell flat on its face and besmirched the Amiga's
>reputation forever. 

   The first of anything is going to be crud.  Take a look at the first Mac, 
the first PC, the first Sun workstation, and so on.  Everybody is entitled to
mistakes.  It is not a blunder to make a mistake; it is a blunder to not fix
that mistake immediately.  Commodore had a chance to fix many of the mistakes
made with the A1000 when developing the A2000.  That they didn't fix any of 
them with the A2000 is the REAL blunder.  

> The real blunder was in letting Jay Miner get away instead
>of getting him to do enhanced chipsets!

   Maybe, but I'd heard that Jay Minor was in pretty ill health by 1986.  They
should have kept the rest of the team, though.  A lot could have been 
accomplished toward a much better A2000 and a much better OS if the original
team had not been disbanded, even without Jay Minor in charge.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Amiga   Re: Falcon Rumor?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:37:58 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul25.182121.29046@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
> Now Warner with many BILLIONS of cash is putting Atari name
> all over TV, movie and magazine world!
>

Correct me (anyone I could trust :) if I am wrong, but doesn't Warner own
shares in Atari Corp. the coin-op company and NOT Atari Computers, owned
by Tramiel?

>

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: thomas@diku.dk (Thomas Nikolajsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Amiga is being left behind...
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:32:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:

>In <1992Jul6.080253.4103@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>   A little bit of trivia to see how observant people are:  Where have we 
>>heard name "Lisa" before??

>Lisa was the predecessor of the Macintosh and it used a nice hardware
>trick for faster black on white rendering :-)

This makes me curious; which tricks were used? Anybody cares to comment.

>Michael van Elst

- thomas