HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Peter Cooper)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 21 Nov 1992 16:38:51 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

>  It all depends on how we agree what "rights" there are, doesn't it? I don't
>  include housing, employment, medical care, &c as "rights". I do include
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           what a sick society produced this person!  Americans, arise
	   and claim guaranteed medical care, and a living wage for all!
	   Guaranteed medical care is generally cheaper, too.  The US
	   spends about 15% of GDP on heath care which misses the bottom
	   30% of the population, and which is not satisfactory for
	   another 30% (due to cost etc).  Some countries have national
	   health care (like mine) and we pay as a society about 6% of
	   GDP for something that reaches nearly everyone, and that is
	   affordable, efficient, and on the whole pretty good.
	   Tourists from here are often warned: "Don't get sick in the
	   States".

>  free speech and the freedom of association (and the concomitant freedom of
>  dissociation) as rights. Yelling "faggot" at someone shouldn't land me in
>  jail, nor should refusing to hire a gay for a job I have.

Look, free speech is all very well, but absolute freedoms probably cause
as many problems as they solve.  Villification laws impinge on your
freedom of speech (but only a bit, about as much as having laws that
permit you to sue for libel and slander) but certainly permit many
people the chance at a semblance of a "normal" life.  All I can say is
that Canada seems a nicer place to live than the States - they have
protection of basic rights in common law, but have erected a legislative
rights structure that concentrates on justice for all (sometimes called
social justice).

Peter
-- 
email:  comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   snail:  Peter Cooper
fax:    +61 9 380 1041                     Guild of Undergraduates
phone:  +61 9 380 3929                     University of Western Australia
"It was the banana that did it!" - Julia Marley
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: colorado springs
Date: 16 Nov 92 09:28:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov16.092820.10034
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1992Nov13.192016.5484@craycos.com> mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish) writes:
>In article <GANDALF.92Nov13103306@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>
>gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
>
>>   Last night, CNN Headline News reported that a student in Colorado Springs
>>   (it didn't say what grade level but it definitely didn't sound like college)
>>   was sent home to change his shirt after arriving for school in a Penguin
>>   (from Batman Returns) t-shirt. It seems that the principal said that the 
>>   shirt was unacceptable because it is "satanic."


Actually it was Colorado City, Arizona which is right on the border 
of Arizona and Utah.  The city is also known for its polygamy.

But, it is something that would also occur in Colorado Springs!
Xref: sparky soc.motss:48798 alt.politics.homosexuality:7503 co.politics:2306
From: palepink@lily.arts.com (Suzii Abe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:46:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: lily.gVwLuB5w165w


 In article <1992Nov16.154610.652@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo
 >Not really. I used to work as a technician fixing very expensive medical
 >equipment. One important point was that your image should be well accepted 
 >by the client because sales were based, in a lot of cases, on references fro
 >previous clients. 
 >If some of our clients would have had a problem with Gays, the company
 >would certainly have not send a Gay person to do the job at that particular
 >place.

This is where Miss Manners' dicta regarding the separation of social and
business life come in.

A technician who visits a client to fix expensive medical equipment 
has no need to discuss anything except medical equipment with that
customer.

A business which has equipment in need of repair has no time to 
distract a visiting technician with discussions of social life, and
no legal right to discuss sexual life with anybody paid to be there.

A manufacturer of expensive machinery can reasonably require its
technicians not to wear Queer Nation t-shirts, Mickey Mouse hats,
"Take this job and shove it" buttons, or filthy plastic sandals
when visiting clients.

I do not doubt that there are companies in this country which, when
making a purchase, send out bid forms to several potential suppliers
which ask the question, "Do you now, or have you ever, employed a
homosexual?"  I'm sure their receptionists are trained to screen
all persons entering the building--oh, maybe they ask to see wallet
photos of the spouse and kids, chat about big plans for the weekend,
monitor pupil size when the visitor is asked to sign in on a clipboard
with a "Burn Fags Not Flags" decorative border--before admitting them
to do business.

I also have a friend whose mother, a wealthyish woman who eats out
a lot, will stand up and leave even her favorite restaurants if a
black person comes to serve her.  These restaurants have not gone
out of business at any greater rate than any others.  (It's lucky
for her she lives in Salt Lake--anywhere else, and she might have
to learn to cook.)

--Suzii.
palepink@lily.arts.com
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GLAAD: Star Trek TNG Spinoff
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:12:04 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <19921121015257ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>,
ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) wrote:

> >I want Wil Wheaton.  I want Jason Priestley.  I want Wil Wheaton and
> >Jason Priestley alone, naked, in a holodeck - lost amidst the fading
> >echoes of dying stars.  An abandoned space station would be perfect.
> >Even more perfect than having Keanu Reeves strapped down in some
> >gloomy castle lost amidst the peaks of Transylvania (but it would
> >be close).
> >
> Write and tell those producers about your unrequited lust for these
> lovelies! Who knows?

Maybe we could even get *RIVER PHOENIX* in on it...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: wrobboy@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (William Robboy)
Subject: address correction Re: THIS WAY OUT needs your help!
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:07:03 GMT

buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:


>Send money to:  This Way Out
>                P.O. Box 382327
>                Los Angeles, CA  90038

The box number Ron posted is incorrect. The following is the address announced
on the latest broadcast of This Way Out. I have double-checked it with the
station that airs the show here locally:

                This Way Out
		P.O. Box 38327
		Los Angeles, CA 90038


William Robboy	wrobboy@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu	blawlrwy@uiamvs.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Tired today for the right reasons
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:42:45 GMT


Given that the most wonderful part of sex is immediately after, it's
near tragic that the propensity of so many is to lunge for a towel
or leap in the shower when the time could be (and was) taken to lie 
shaking together while the spit and sweat and spunk congeals and
cements the lovers into one, hands slowly caressing flanks and 
ridges and grooves, lips seeking secret sensitive areas on the chin,
the ear, the throat, the eyelid, sending waves of pleasure down the
cooling body of one and feeling them return to the first, hearing
the gasps and muted groans and wet sucking sound of stomachs pulling
apart as breath is sharply drawn in because that kiss became a bite,
increasing the pressure of the caress to the shoulders/back/buttocks/
thighs, rolling and turning and rising until the first is above the 
second and the caresses have become a massage, the oil mixing with
the fluids already coating them both and translating pressure to
heat as tensions come further undone, feeling the firm muscles lose
their rigidity one by one from neck to foot, tasting each part that
was not passed over but more worked through, moving back up the 
prone body as at least two muscles of the bonded pair regain their
engorged states and the wondrous realization dawns that the after
was actually a between.

-paul

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Hastings    paul@psych.utoronto.ca          545 Dovercourt Road
University of Toronto      416-978-3990          Toronto, Ont.  M6H 2W5
M. Mark: I can teach you to dance with no intoxication.  (yeah, right!)   
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe)
Subject: Re: Oprah 11/19
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 22:06:39 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Nov23.191708.11165@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>In article <KhG=Wj_@engin.umich.edu> rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe) writes:
>>actively jumped, as far as I'm concerned.  But some snarks are boojums.
>                                                     ^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^
>Pardon me, sir, but are you speaking some new language here?  Or are you
>rewriting English by adding words of your own?
>
>Or am I just ignorant and behind the times . . .
>
>[I hope I am not about to be really embarrased]

No, no new language (at least on my part).  This is an allusion (my
quota for obscure literary references is only half-full, and the year is
nearing its end) to Lewis Carroll's "The Hunting of the Snark."  The
point I was trying to make was that, although there are passive folks
out there who *look* like passive folks (snarks), they may actually be
active (dominant) folks who like to down-play that aspect (so they look
like snarks, but are actually boojums).  The snark was a boojum, you see.

Carroll is famous for making up new words, though.  Like in "Jaberwocky"
he must have made up dozens.  "All brilig were the sworthy toths, ase
they gyred and gymballed in the wabe..." (or something to that effect).

Sorry for the confusion.  Appropriate displays of affection to all!

                                 > Steve <

-- 
Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
     These folks who don't believe in evolution
are the ones who look the most like they could use some.
                                   -Frank Allison
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:57:53 GMT

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>...and did I *SAY* there was anything wrong with his penchant for 
>doffing his pants?

>*NO*!

You merely *implied* it pretty strongly in context. So sorry.

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Colorado Memory Systems & Non-Discrimination
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:59:18 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov18.173637.19358@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>[s]he have, in light of the anti-discrimination policy and Co:2?
>

Breach of promise, if a company's published policy is violated without being
eliminated.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: So-Called Hate Crimes (was Gay-Bashing) 
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:04:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.025034.23028@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> It boils down to what the First Amendment really means, in
> practice.  Those who think it is *the* main bastion of
> freedom (I'm one) will agree with you: to prosecute people
> for merely expressing themselves through speech and symbols,
> no matter how hate-filled or offensive to community
> sensibilities, is to compromise the 1st Amendment's
> protections and imperil freedom for all.

  Totally agreed.

> >Now, of course, if someone acts on a hateful belief, and
> >goes and beats up on gays qua gays (for example), they
> >should most certainly be tried on assault and other related
> >charges.  But to charge them based, not on the character of
> >their actions, but on its motivation, seems like a dangerous
> >infringement of freedom of thought.
> 
> It's mighty inconvenient, but there you have it: if one
> belief is actionable, any other belief can be actionable.
> The strength of the First Amendment's idea is that it's
> protection is not divisible, that is, it protects *all*
> ideas and beliefs equally.  So Nazis and the KKK can parade,
> display swastikas, wear hoods, call for the destruction of
> everyone who doesn't believe as they do, and all sorts of
> disgusting things.  But as soon as we try to prevent that,
> we're exposed to repression ourselves, because our ideas are
> anathema to lots of people.

  I've been think about this lately. Oughtn't the gist of
hate crimes type laws be toward the sentencing end rather
than the actual crime? Clearly, assault qua assault is a
violation of ones rights irrespective of the motivation of
the violator. Therefore, it seems reasonable that a law
against assault should be sufficient protection against
that sort of behavior. 
  But all assaults are not created equal, and it is the
severity and motivation for the assault which we should
take into account when deciding what the proper _punishment_
for the crime ought to be. This is where the concept of 
hate crimes might have a place: they single out certain
types of behavior as more or less reprehensible from
a moral standpoint. It's not about the crime itself,
which there is no question is wrong, it's about the
proper punishment.
  Right? This seems reasonable since freedom of expression
does not enter into the equation until *after* the violent 
act. Basically, this would fit the old addage "your freedom
to swing your fist, ends when it connects with my face."
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: ""Gay rights group files complaint""
Followup-To: soc.motss
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:56:00 GMT

In article <RHAYDEN.92Nov19205017@hqsun2.oracle.com> rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
>In article <38954@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) writes:
>
>   Thought experiement.  Assume that one has to choose to  be queer.
>   No genetic predisposition, no nothing.  People just point blank
>   choose to be queer.
>
>   What's so wrong with that?
>   (end thought experiment)
>
>Nothing, in my opinion.  But the fact that it isn't a choice seems to
>be a persuasive argument that makes people think a little deeper about
>the subject.

While this may be an effective tactic; I have a stake in discouraging
its wide use.  As a bisexual, I will be seen as having a "choice".

(Though I might argue that I don't "choose" to be attracted to say,
a particular long haired brunette, any more than anyone else
chooses their objects of attraction.)

But I agree -- what's wrong with a choice?

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Example
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:52:45 GMT

Here's something:

GDM writes:

>Sim Aberson writes:
>>In a previous article, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) wrote:
>>>* Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *
>>Any idea how that song plays on the G-rated version?  (The thought
>>of G-rated Prince makes me want to *hurl!*)

>The thought of *PRINCE* makes me want to "hurl".  He's been
>writing and re-writing the same tired, adolescent songs on sex
>for what, more than a decade now?  The only change has been that
>he's gotten even MORE narcissistic.

Explain the logical progression of this. Did it make sense for
you to chime in? Did you have a good reason to vent spleen?

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Colorado: My 2 cents
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:20:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov17.212937.22438@athena.mit.edu>, tcarlin@athena.mit.edu
(Thomas B. Carlin) wrote:

> become an economic wasteland, it must become Catherage (sp??)

Carthage.  There was a Roman senator of some note who would end
every speech:  And Carthage must be destroyed.

I, of course, think the destruction of Colorado an absurd goal,
but suspect this post was somewhat satirical (Satiricon?)

*X*
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rap (Yes, you're still in soc.motss) (Re: Marky Mark
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:25:08 GMT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

> Brett, there are probably like two people hear who know anything
> about rap.  Most Gay men don't like rap.  Well, let me clarify
> this.  Most Gay men don't like legitimate rap.  Marky Mark is
> not a legitimate rapper.  I don't think any White man can be a
> legitimate rapper.  But, there are also illegitimate rappers who
> are Black.  In order to understand this, you have to understand
> rap.  It's a Black thing and most Gay White men can't relate to
> it and don't understand it.
>
well, i am not a gay man.  we knew this, so this isn't SUCH a
disclaimer.  but i like rap.  even when it is mysogynist and
homophobic.  (i don't like the particvular songs that are like that,
but i still like the genre.)  it's very real.  it talks about stuff i
can relate to, even though i am a white woman raised (supposedly)
middle class.  like what it's like being poor and living Poor (*).
like the fact that the songs mention having kids, wives, exes, etc.
like the anger at how society mistreats people.

> It sickens me to see White people like Marky Mark and Vanilla
> Ice "White-satize"* rap music just to make it more palatable for
> the White masses.  But, rappers like Hammer and Young MC have
> just helped them along.
>
i'll agree with that.  i like rap angry, edgy, political.  would a
correlation between rap and punk be reasonable?  i don't really knwo a
lot about punk culture, so i couldn't say, but it seems like there are
similarities.

> Someone who I think is a legitimate White rapper is MC Serch
> (formerly of 3rd Bass).
>
i'll have to check it out...

> But rap remains intrinsically Black. You all could not handle
> the real stuff ...
>
so what IS the real stuff?  whihc rappers?  is apperaing on MTV proof
that this is NOT the real stuff, or does some of that edge its way in
there?  point me in the right direction, and i'll acquire some
albums...

> Donald - It's time for some action!

agreed.

* note i am poor now, although not really part of the Poor culture
anymore.  and actually, i kinda miss it.  it's easier being really
poor when you have other people for support.

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I miss the rains down in Africa.                Silence \      / Action
Gotta take some time to do the things we           =     \    /    =
  never have...                                  Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 17 Nov 1992 12:31:04 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Gary Strand (gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu), again (sigh):

>gs> Because I'm against legislating a particular morality, 
>
>tc> Amendment 2 *did* legislate a particular morality.  Can't you see that?
>
>  As do the ordinances of Denver, Boulder, and Aspen. Can't you see that?

No, Gary.  Those ordinances were *anti*-discrimination.  They legislated
*against* a particular morality (that of the right-wing fundamentalists),
or, if you prefer, they legistlated a particular amorality, rather than
immorality, as so many people seem to think.

Again, there's a subtle, but vital difference.  Open both eyes, and you might
see that.

------------------------------
                             |     We guided the guy dressed as a nun up Dore
Jim Drew                     | Alley, to see the dead guy dressed as a nun.
jrd@frame.com                |     "Oh, this isn't one of *us,*" he said, and
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       | started patting down the dead nun's habit, until
"Innocent, but not naive."   | he found a silver flask of alcohol.
B2h t w- c k s g+(p) rv p    |     "We're the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | This used to be one of the Sisters of Perpetual
{opinions: mine != frame's}  | Inebriation.  They're down at the other end of
                             | the fair.
                             |		- Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"
Newsgroups: soc.motss