HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:59:31 GMT


dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
<pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek):
<>One of the harper hall trilogy had a drawing in what I call "stained glass 
<>window" style-- no shading, just black lines and deliniated regions of 
<>each color-- of Menoly playing the multiple pipes while her lizards cavort 
<>about.  One of the older printings of _Dragonquest_ had a not very well 
<>drawn, but plotwise correct picture of the bandaged F'nor sitting
<>with his back against Canth, holding a baby Gold firelizard.
<
<I loved that "Dragonsong" cover, and didn't think much of Bantam's failure
<to give the artist's name.  The "Dragonquest" cover dates back to the
<dragons-are-dinosaurs-with-wings era, before the cover artists started
<trying to make them look aerodynamic.

Speaking of these covers, does anyone know if any posters were made of them,
and if so, where they could be purchased? (Of the orginal "Dragonsong" and
"Dragonsinger" covers, that is.)


-- 
"I had generously shown on the stage my interior life as a raging beast, but
 my exterior life as a mediocre human being and dilettante of of normal int-
 elligence remained unchronicled...I *knew* that beneath my work's primeval,
 hysterical facade there was a calm little writer in an armchair just waiting
 to burst forth." -- Wally Shawn, on the writing of "My Dinner With Andre'"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11155 rec.arts.sf.science:2526
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:17:24 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.


In article <1992Aug12.201344.6642@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>> Up until quite recently the optimum genetic strategy for a human
>>> female was to have a few kids and concentrate on them.  The optimum
>>> strategy for a male was to have as many by-blows as possible but to
>>> also have a small family that he concentrated his effort on.
>>> This is no longer the case in most developed countries.  

I think you've got that backwards!

Up until recently (and still is, in undeveloped countries) the standard
practice was to have lots of kids. More or less one a year.

The effect being to ensure that at least some of them survived (most didn't)
to look after their parents in their old age.

Being able to concentrate on a few children in the expectation that they
are all going to survive is a relatively recent luxury.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 x3868|   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (jc@cel.uucp) or jc@selune.demon.co.uk        |   \_|__
+-----(Work)---------------------------------(home)----------------+ \___/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua M. Sabloff)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: McCaffrey advice
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:27:24 GMT
Organization: Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

DragonFlight is the first book of the original (and best) series.  I'm
no McCaffrey fan, but she IS above average.


-Josh Sabloff (jsa5@andrew.cmu.edu)
"Research physicists need Porsches too!" -- Oliver Wendell Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:23:55 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

In article <1992Aug20.165855.14308@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>
> >Overcrowding humans tends to lead to famine, pestilence and war, which
> >lead to death; the Four Horsemen who keep us from covering the entire
> >surface of the planet.  Our cycles are just less dramatic than the
> >Moties'.
>
> In other words, if you actually look at things, counting die offs as
> well, the average person only had about 1 kid.  That's pretty much
> what I was saying.

Are you trying to pull a fast one on us, or what?  These notions
that you are trying to equate are not even remotely similar.  You
are mixing up the population growth rate (the net ratio of change in
the number of people over a given time interval) with the fertility
rate (the ratio of births to population [or sometimes to a specific
subpopulation, such as women of child-bearing age] over a given time
interval).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
From: msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Mark Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:29:09 GMT
Organization: Washington State University Tri-Cities, Richland

In article <8259@orbit.cts.com> ceg@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Chris Galas) writes:
>kwilliam@maclab01.seas.ucla.edu (William Kuan) writes:
>>
>>       Any recommendations on fantasy books involving dragons?
>
>The books by Anne McCaffrey, such as _Dragonflight_, _Dragonquest_
>and _The White Dragon_ are a very good starting point if your
>interested in dragon novels.
>
>Also _A Flight of Dragons_ (the author's name escapes me now) adds
>a mechanical theory to why (some) dragons can fly.
> 
Try Dragonsbane by Barbra Hambly.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Vance's _Throy_ and author polls
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:02:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa


	Received Jack Vance's _Throy_ yesterday ( Underwood-Miller $75 )
and quite enjoyed it.  Vance neatly and interestingly resolves the Yip
and Peefer situations and ties up most other loose ends in his typical
excellent fashion.
	Because of this discussion of the author polls I will see if I
can find the results of my poll of Vance-o-philes and see how my
results of last year compare with these.  I'll repost my poll ( if I
can find it ).

-- 
"I'm not a programmer, but I play one at work." _/_
 _, .__  _  _,  _,     _   _, .__  ____  _  __  / o _ .__
(_)_/ (_(/_(_)_(_)_   |_)_(_|_/ (_/ / /_(/_/ /_/_/_(/_/ (__
 /|         /|  /|   /|      ___ Gregg  Parmentier ___
|/         |/  |/    |/ parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Diane Duane-door Into Sunset
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:27:13 GMT
	<BtAxy8.DAu@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 20-Aug-92 Re: Diane
Duane-door Into S.. Scott J Gorcey@ubvmsb.cc (638)

> > 
> >There are no books in that series that you've missed.  However, if
> >you haven't read _So You Want to be a Wizard_, _Deep Wizardry_, and
> >_High Wizardry_ (which came out in that gap) th

>      Am I right in thinking these three WIZARD books are intended
>      for young/adults?  And if they are, would I still enjoy them
    
Yes, and YES. I actually think that the Wizard books are technically
better than the (first two) Door books. I thought the Door series (so
far) tends to ramble a bit plot-wise, and doesn't develop its supporting
characters at all well. The Wizard books are tighter -- maybe kids are a
more demanding audience.

(But I'm still going to kill my sister if she doesn't bring me a copy of
_Door into Sunset_ when she gets back from England. :-)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: baylor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Reply-To: baylor@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:00:32 GMT

In article <rwallace.713710067@unix1.tcd.ie>, rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace) writes:
[long discussion point/counterpoint deleted]
>
>Are there any effects that would counteract the genetic trend towards
>wanting to have more children? (In the very long term.) Or is there some
>flaw in the reasoning?
>
The genes for wanting more children? I know a lot of things may be 
influenced by genetics, but remember a thing called "environment" or 
another thing called "the perversity of human nature?" The fact that you
can live higher with fewer children IS a counter-influence. Who DOESN'T
want more money than they've got? Especially someone who may have grown
up impoverished in a large family! 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rvinluan@cs.cornell.edu (Rolando Vinluan)
Subject: Gene Wolfe: The Soldier series
Organization: Cornell University, CS Dept., Ithaca, NY
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:16:32 GMT


	I just finished Soldier of Arete. It was truly
unique, though-provoking, exciting...I like it better
than his New Sun series, actually, in part because
it deals with real history. I'm going to re-read 
Soldier of the Mist then next time I'm home.

Questions:

	1) Pindaros's chapter in the end, trying to
mimic Homer I think, was a bit confusing. 
The Amazon (Pharetra/Hippostizein) won the chariot race,
right? Was this because Latro let him win it?

	2) I don't have the first book, and the second
doesn't come with a map, so can somebody help me with
the modern names of the places? Rope is Sparta, Thrace
is well, Thrace. But Hill, Tower Hill, Sestos, Nestos,
Cowland...HELP!?!?

	3) Is this the third book out yet? I don't think
it's in paperback, but in hardcover?

	4) Who else besides me likes this series better than
the New Sun series (though honestly, I haven't read 
"Urth of the New Sun" yet).

	5) Any good books about Ancient Greece you can
recommend? My main reference was Will Durant's "The Story
of Civilization," which is of course good and a classic,
but I don't have that with me right now.
From: rpalma@acpub.duke.edu (Raymond Peter Palma)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Novels
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:30:34 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


I reccomend a series by Katherine Kerr that i picked up accidently at
the library while getting books by Kurtz. I don't remember the name of
the series, but titles include "the Bristling Wood." The series is about
three main characters in a medieval setting and how their lives interact
through multiple reincarnations. Scenes in the "present" are
interspersed with stories about their past lives. Very interesting plot
and good character development. The latest novel in the series "A Time
of Exile" doesn't really relate to the other books and isn't as good.

Also a series of books by Theresa Edgerton that start with "Goblin Moon"
were interesting because of her style of writing. Victorian England with
magic and a Scarlet Pimpernel type were new to me, but the action is a
bit slow and the ending of the series is contrived. Well worth reading
although it isn't epic. 

Also Glen Cook's dread empire series. Unfortunately they are out of
print. I wouldn't reccomend reading them out of order or too far apart 
because the multiple characters and subplots get confusing.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: The Keltiad (Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels)
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:28:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.003245.21226@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca> marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson) writes:
>[...]
>(As a counter-example, let me mention Patricia Kennealy's Keltiad books
>which use Arthur in a way which I would not have chosen. However, I 
>like those books very much.)

Having only just read the first volume of The Keltiad, I might not know
everything I ought to know to have an opinion about the seriesl, but the
first one really disappointed me.

Spoilers may follow.



It seems to combine all the worst aspects of soap fantasy and space opera
without one single one of the redeeming qualities. I like second-guessing
the author, but I hate being able to deduct the development several hundred
pages before it happens.

The space/science fiction part is absolutely incredible (or should that
be *un*credible?). My willingness to suspend disbelief was mortally wounded
when Aeron decides to travel through subspace to destroy the Fomori space
base, which btw. at one point in the book was a moon, and at another a
planet (if I remember correctly). The description was rather corny.

What is also very annoying about many C-grade space operas is the seemingly
incapability of the author to deal with the vastness of space in an at
least approximative manner. Hiding behind a moon to escape the notice of
Keltian cruiser, which *might* be in that part of space, indeed!
it only confirmed my suspicion that the books were first written as a
fantasy epic, after which Kennealy decided to make a SF story out of it.
This she then did by replacing every occurence of "sailing ship" with
"space ship", "land" with "planet" and so forth.

She also has the bad habit of upping the ante to inconsistent heights
when she needs a new plot device. Examples are the ever holier sanctum
of the Ban-Droi school and the education Aeron has to go through. First
the Ban-Droi school is described as one of the holiest places. Then it
is one part of the premises. At the next turn of the story a holier place
(for the resp. first and second initiations) is needed, and it is found,
first in a room and thereafter in a corner of that room.

Her use of words also annoyed me no end. "Troublous" and "any road". Hah!

It really is a shame. The basic idea of the book held so much promise. I
will read the last two volumes, though. Perhaps they get better.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 05:36:13 EST
From: Tad Simmons <SIMMONS@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?

  I'd suggest The Book Dragon by (I forget...).  It's more like something you
would read to a niece to get her to go to sleep (Her mom had to go find a
copy so she could hear the end  ;) if you edit some (major bad guy gets eaten).
But a dragon is the central character...
Hope this helps
Tad

Tad Simmons, Computer Operator (I feed printers and clean their cages.)
University of Central Florida in Orlando, Florida (a suburb of Disney World)
SIMMONS@UCF1VM.BITNET    |Owner and general trouble-maker, err... -shooter for
SIMMONS@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU| the SUPERGUY listserv list.  Mail me for more info.
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Wolfe's Book of the New Sun
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:57:03 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

Another question about the first book. Is Valeria the girl he meets
in thge beginning of the book mentioned laterr?

I was sure that he'll meet her again (actually I expected he will fall
in love with her and not with Dorcas - but that too much I guess :-)).

I seem to remember her name mentioned near the end of the first book 
but I don't know where.

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: trey@leland.Stanford.EDU (Clarence Gordon)
Subject: Harlan Ellison
Summary: Harlan Ellison books?
Keywords: Harlan Ellison books
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:00:48 GMT

does anyone know where to find Harlan Ellison books?  the bookstores
around here (Palo Alto, CA) do not carry his books. i find this wierd
since Harlan is such an acclaimed writer. please help be postting or
e-mail me directly. thanks. trey@leland.stanford.edu
From: anneb@tecsun1.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Death Gate Cycle
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:59:14 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Topographic Engineering Center, Ft. Belvoir, VA.

bcronk@bnr.ca (Bryan Cronk) writes:


>In article <1992Aug8.152510.15839@europa.asd.contel.com>, andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa) writes:

Andy> I haven't yet read any of this series.  I tend to wait untill the full series
Andy> is out before I start.  Could someone tell me how they like it so far?  I'm
Andy> new to the news group but it seems from reading some of the threads that not
Andy> many people like Hickman and Wiess(sp)  I've enjoyed eveything that they have
Andy> written except for the last book in the Darksword Trilogy.
Andy> 
Andy> Andy


Bryan>I started reading them before I knew that they were a seven book 
Bryan>series, and thought I'd made a mistake, but it turns out that the first 
Bryan>four go together, the next three will round out the set.

I enjoyed 1-4.  The first three read very nicely as books on their own, and I
think that they _almost_ could be read in any order.  The fourth (Serpent Mage,
which I got as soon as my library had it on the shelves) leaves you with the
cliffhanger leading you into the next three.  I'm tempted to do like Bryan says
he's planning, and wait until they're all out, but I have a history of getting
impatient when I see the books actually in print.  Does anyone know what sort
of release schedule the books are on?  (every 6 months or so, every year or so,
???)

I did find that escaped D&D player from another universe in the world of trees
(for want of a better description for him) a tad annoying (the Wizard with the
Dragon-- I doubt that that's a spoiler.)


Bryan>Happy reading,
Bryan>Bryan


					-Anne
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11128 rec.arts.sf.science:2505
From: myboy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Lewis Murtaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:08:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug17.190857.15405
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <gapdrr.714068324@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> gapdrr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Daniel
R T Rothman) writes:
>
>[older posts, etc. deleted)
>
>i apologize for my less-than-clear post. One of the currently well-accepted
>theories in genetics is that evolution occurs over bursts, with relatively
>long periods of inactivity. It is very possible that the human race is
>going through one of the "growth spurts" before our very eyes.

The only theory I know of which matches your description is that of
punctuated equilibrium, currently supported by Steven Jay Gould, among others.
 It is NOT "well-accepted," by any definition, and is based on unprovable and
undisprovable assumptions.  I haven't studied this for a while, but I'll try
to explain:

The theory is based on the fact that "speciation events," which are the points
at which new species branch off from older ones, occur at the same time in the
fossil record as anatomical changes in the species under study.  These
anatomical changes occur over great periods of time, but are only observable
at occasional intervals.  If we assume that speciation, which is the mark of
evolution's progress, occurs only at these points, then it may seem that
evolution happens in brief spurts.

There are flaws, however.  For instance, these are fossils, and changes may
occur genetically in the organisms under observation that correspnd to
speciation, but are unobservable in the bone structure.
The other, greater flaw, is the following: the progress of evolution in
fossils is generally measured by observing anotomical changes.  If these
changes can only be observed intermittantly, as is the case with fossils, one
can never know what is going on, evolution-wise, in between.  It might be that
evolution only occurs at these points, and thus that Gould et al. are right,
but no one will ever be able to prove it.

This thread seems to be degenerating into a debate over social Darwinism.  Ask
any reputable population biologist, including Gould, and he or she will tell
you that evolution cannot occur over a matter of a few centuries.  Any changes
in human behavior in the past 200 years have been the consequence of rational
or irrational decisions on the part of human beings.  Societies may evolve,
but there is nothing happening on the genetic level.

--
Charles Murtaugh
From: bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org (Barbara Haddad)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Yet Another Misleading Cover
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 11:10:53 PST
Organization: Club Zen BBS - Fidonet/Internet - +1 408 734 2289

> > pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein) writes:
> > >Can anyone think of a book that had a promising, well-done cover where the
> > >contents of the book lived up to promise of the cover and the cover proved
> > >accurate?
      The Chalker 'Well World' series depicts various races from the 
world therein & does so very well (IMHO).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Haddad -> (bhaddad@clubzen.fidonet.org)
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Storm Constantine
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:49:49 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <hoahosth.17.713825278@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> hoahosth@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (ANDREA HOSTH) writes:
>
>Um. Well, I've read part of the Wraethu trilogy and "Hermetech". Both of 
>these novels shared a similar feature: although I neither liked the 
>protagonist particularly, or was otherwise enarmored by her style, imagery, 
>or anything else, I found myself reading these book to the very end in a 
>very short time. However, nothing has made me want to go and get the rest of 
>the Wraethu trilogy. (For one thing, this replace women and make men 
>androgynous theme really started to piss me off about halfway through the 
>novel. It went into a kind of fantasy trip for the rampant homosexual 
>misogynist (IMHO) and just irritated me beyond words. [Birth made easier, 
>prettier, yet *so much harder* all at the same time. Geez.])

You obviously didn't read the third book. Men aren't the only ones who are
changed, we just don't find out about it until later since the Wraethu
themselves are ignorant. Also, she did her best to make the characters
androgynus. I mean, come on, one of them bears young right in the story.
Hardly completely male still. She said something about this in an
interview with her that I read. She wasn't writing these people as men who
could reproduce.

>Anyway. I'd rate it in the upper average for readibility. A low high for 
>originality. This woman really likes to link sex and magic, doesn't she?

 Sex IS linked with magic. I can think of plenty of references for that.
If you (assuming you don't) had a background in Western, Hermetic magic,
it would be fairly obvious where she is coming from in a few places. The
same in Hermetech, with its material from modern Neo-Paganism and a few
Golden Dawnesque things thrown in (like naming the AI Thoth).

Wassail,
Al Billings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written