From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Clean And Unclean Un / Maccoby Book
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:18:05 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


            -=> Quoting Robert A. Levene <=-
 RAL> From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
 RAL> Date: 28 Aug 92 21:22:45 GMT
 RAL> Organization: Johns Hopkins University
 RAL> Message-ID: <9208282121.AA14208@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
 RAL> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 RAL> 
 RAL> Rabbi Greenberg said much more than that.
 RAL> "... In my article, I offered Christians ... the chance to work Jesus
 RAL> up [to] the status of a failed messiah."
 RAL> "I even realized the danger that my words could be pulled out of
 RAL> context.  I feared that unscrupulous missionary Christians -- who
 RAL> would stop at nothing to mislead unwary Jews -- might misuse them to
 RAL> claim that an Orthodox rabbi was affirming Christianity and
 RAL> supercessionism.  So I wrote a warning in the article against such
 RAL> misuse.  I warned that such abuse would prove that 'the sum of woe
 RAL> brought into the world by Christianity will go [on] and on.'"
 RAL> _Jewish Action_, Winter'90-1
     Yup.  He had to write that.  As the public outcry from the Judaic
     community became too great, due to the many nice things he had to
     say about Y'shua and the Messianic Jews.  I have his entire first
     article, in full, which caused such a flap.  You should read it.
 RAL> The rest of the quotes (none from orthodox Jews, BTW) merely
     I said that was only a few of the quotes.  Several Orthodox Jews
     hold the same viewpoint.  Try for example where Joseph Klausner
     is positive in the identity of Y'shua and Messianic Judaism as
     being actually based upon Tanakh & Rabbinic writings, (although of
     course the idea is not held by this person that Yeshua is Messiah,
     yet so he writes in): Jesus Of Nazareth, Jesus' idea of God. pg.
     174.
     Or how about Orthodox Rabbi Pinchas Lipead/Lipeap {sp -whatever},
     who not only speaks in a favorable way of Y'shua and Messianic
     Judaism in an Orthodox perspective, but proves that Y'shua was
     raised from the dead!  -(although, he doesn't believe He is the
     Messiah, and tries to show that too.)  Also:
      At various times prior to the 3rd Cent. AD/CE there were friendly
      relations between Messianic/Natzratim Believers and Rabbinic
      Jews.  Chwolson for example mentions the case of the Min -
      (Messianic/Natzratim Jewish Believer), whom R. Jehudah himself,
      the editor of the Mishnah, the patriarch, the spiritual and
      political head of the Jewish nation in the end of the second
      century, welcomed to his table, permitting him to say the
      blessing after the meal.  This blessing is in four parts, of
      which the second contains thanks for the deliverance from Egypt,
      for the sign of the covenant, (circumcision), for the Torah, and
      the ordinances.  The third contains a prayer for G-d's mercy on
      Jerusalem, and for the re-building of the Temple.  (The Hebrew
      Christian Messiah, See: Lect. IV,p.151; see also: Strack, Jesus,
      die Haretiker und die Christen, u.s.w., 1910, & 22c. T.B.
      Chullin, 87a.)   B.A.R., (Biblical Archaeology Review), recently
      had an article where there have been discovered Messianic
      Synagogues joined next to Rabbinic Synagogues in various places
      outside of southern Israel up to the 7th century AD/CE, - showing
      that relationships between these two groups remained somewhat
      close, even until this late date, outside of the area around
      Jerusalem.
So..., once again I repeat: If others don't have that big of a problem
with us, why do you?  Heck, you'd probally find that you agree with us
on several points, -other points- no.  But it doesn't see correct, nor
circumspect, for you to just flat out reject us because we believe that
we know who the Messiah is.

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210      
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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