HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:15:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.220552.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> In article <1992Jul27.203416.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca 
> writes:
>  
>> 	Monroe also noted experiences in which he 'used' the body of someone
>> else.  Maybe this is the type of thing that you are referring to.
> 
> no, that would be more a case of possession, i think.  i mean the same
> consciousness in two simultaneous physical manifestations encountering itself. 
> both people would presumably have different life experiences and only
> experience one side of the encounter (at a time).  any ideas?
>  
>> Bill.
> 
> Jude.

	Maybe this is what happens to people with split personallities?
Just a thought.

Bill.
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: re: sensitivity and detachment
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:47:06 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

i also tend to pick up feelings from people who project them strongly. 
a few times it's been very uncomfortable, a few times it's been really nice,
and one or two times it's been nothing short of wonderful.  the thing i'm
trying to work on is blocking it out when i don't like it.  i think it's also
possible to pick up on people who don't project as strongly, but you have to
open to them more than usual.

Jude.
From: dab@ism.isc.com (David A. Butterfield)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: sensitivity and detachment
Date: 31 Jul 1992 20:29:41 GMT
Organization: x
NNTP-Posting-Host: change

jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>I also tend to pick up feelings from people who project them strongly. 

Are you aware of the mechanism by which you pick up these feelings?

Dave
-- 
	I output a string of symbols and I observe the response.
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:325 alt.paranormal:1953
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:34:16 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada

> also, i have read that simultaneous physical lives is a possibility (space and
> time are illusions, right?  i think so).  i was also wondering if anyone has
> ever met another person with the same consciousness, or whether people think it
> might be possible to do so.  Robert Monroe was prevented from coming into
> contact with earlier manifestations of himself while out of body on the grounds
> that "a true paradox refuses to exist", but what's to prevent two physical 
> forms with the same consciousness from coming together (except maybe an 
> "accident").  would such a meeting, too, be a true paradox?
> 
> thoughts, opinions, experiences graciously accepted.
> 
> curiously,
> 
> Jude


	Monroe also noted experiences in which he 'used' the body of someone
else.  Maybe this is the type of thing that you are referring to.

Bill.
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: Kids and conciousness
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: alt
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:05:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.153008.11346@kei.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp> jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp writes:
>
>While watching TV this evening I flipped to this show by the BBC
>about alternative education programs in the US.  When I tuned in they
>were featuring a program in which the main concept was the discussion
>of things philosophical in classes of 2-4th (?)  graders (I'm not
>very good at judging age).  They touched very subtly on a number of
>significant topics... 

yes, it is interesting that this is rarely done in western cultures -
we seem to think that young children have no skills of analysis or
abstract thought. i would love to see more of this sort of training in
the very young - i know that the tibetan monastic system sometimes 
begins the training of its members in things abstract and logical at the
age of five or six, with much obvious success in educating them to the
highest levels of logical skill. not that we should all be bought up in
monasteries, you understand...
-- 
Scott Probst: Brain and Behaviour Laboratory, Psychology dept, SFU
              Graduate Issues Officer, Simon Fraser Student Society.
e-mail: probst@fraser.sfu.ca - ph: (604) 291 3354/3181 - fax: (604) 291 5843
              "yes, well, and here we go again..."   Dr H.S. Thompson
From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Trans-no-end-to-all-the Men-dictation
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:22:24 GMT
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada
In-reply-to: hank@westford.ccur.com's message of 30 Jul 92 04:45:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.044543.22199@westford.ccur.com> hank@westford.ccur.com (Hank Cohen) writes:
	Marc Wachowitz (mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de) made some comments on my
							 posting on TM.
  First regarding the importance of non-concentration I state simply:
	It seems that this point is not clear or is not being treated as
							  On mantras:
  The first reason for keeping the mantra private is that it is taught
							   And later:
  So what?  Do you really think it matters how many mantras there are?
 First the mantra is not an object of concentration any more than your
	Also on a similar point Mr. Joni Jarvenkyla (jjj@mits.mdata.fi)
								writes:
 >"this is It", whereas "samadhi" really is only "the beginning of It".
	 Exactly! just the beginning. The goal of meditation is not the
 That is a rather cynical and fatalistic view.  I prefer to think that
	 Mr. Joni Jarvenkyla (jjj@mits.mdata.fi)  goes on to point out:
 I should point out that TM is not a social organization.  The fee that
 As for the price TM is certainly competitive with many other personal
					   *            *           *

Whew!  How many lines was that?  Obviously, my editing was aimless as it
was pointless, unhemmed as it was uneven; my apologies if I missed the
spirit of the debate.

What a lot of bother for something so ill-defined!  I think I shall
stick to my feeble attempts to sit with the toads, watch my breathing
AND my mind without losing my toes, and leave all this to those of you
who are so deep into the reasoned wherefores of it all.

No rhyme, no reason: 

	  "Enlightenment is the natural response to the environment."

	 "We don't have to work to create a natural mind; it just is."

		 "We don't have to make an empty stomach feel hungry."

   "When a bird flies up at your feet, you feel startled, naturally."

	   "Rely on reality, not a person or a system or a thought."

				"Forget about trying to cure yourself."

   "It is amazing how different the world looks when we have changed"

		   -- a few random sayings of Dr. Morita Masetake --

When you draw a bow, you don't hold two arrows.  Have a good weekend,
all and remember to do what needs to be done.

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - Gary.Murphy@software.mitel.COM - (613) 592-2122 x3709
     True understanding is actual practice itself -- Shunryu Suzuki	
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,soc.rights.human
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: Language and thought (endangered languages)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:08:20 GMT

In <1992Jul21.074753.10478@gnosys.svle.ma.us> gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us I write:

> ...
> Following is the text of an article which appeared recently on a mailing list
> which I administer.  Professor Bernard, the author, was featured this past
> Sunday on the Cable News Network in a brief story about the work he has done
> in Oaxaca, Mexico.  He has written a description of another article on the
> subject of that work which I will post in a second followup article, which
> will contain details on how to obtain the full text of the longer article
> from a LISTSERV archive.

Here is the article mentioned above.  To obtain the article referenced within,
first you have to be a member of the NATIVE-L listserv list.  To subscribe to
that list (which is not the same as the language list, BTW), send a message:

	subscribe native-l Your Name

to LISTSERV@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU.  If you don't want to receive mailings from that
list, you can send a "signoff native-l" after retrieving the article.  The
NATIVE-L list deals more broadly with preserving native culture and other
matters pertaining to indigenous peoples.

To get the article itself (964 lines long), send a message:

	get language pres-div native-l

to LISTSERV@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU.  (You can also use LISTSERV@TAMVM1.BITNET, BTW.)

Let me know if you have any problems.

Gary (gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us)

P.S.  If anyone knows of other appropriate Usenet newsgroups or mailing lists,
please feel free to copy and redistribute this article.  If you do, please
retain the information about how to retrieve the "language pres-dev" article
and how to subscribe to the "native.lang" mailing list (given in my previous
article).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: native.lang
From: tnishi@kansas.Berkeley.EDU (NISHIYAMA Tetsuto)
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Reply-To: tnishi@lsa.ncl.omron.co.jp
Organization: Omron Computer Systems R&D Labs 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:32:54 GMT


In article <1992Jul28.220552.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>,
jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
|> 
|> no, that would be more a case of possession, i think.  i mean the same
|> consciousness in two simultaneous physical manifestations
encountering itself. 
|> both people would presumably have different life experiences and only
|> experience one side of the encounter (at a time).  any ideas?
|>    [...]
|> Jude.

	does this mean that an experience by one is known by the other?
I'm getting confused...

=========================================================================
Teddy Nishiyama  (tnishi@lsa.ncl.omron.co.jp)  OMRON Corporation  (^_^;
R&D Support Dept(LSA), Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo-shi, Kyoto-fu 617  JAPAN
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:333 alt.paranormal:1965
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:02:36 EDT
Followup-To: alt.consciousness
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <zlsiida.1072@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) 
writes:
 
> Casteneda has been debunked; however his books do consist of a soup of 

by whom?

> traditional beliefs, so there might be something in there.  Better to go to 
> the anthropologists to check out what those Sonoran indians were really into 
> though.
 
> Read any William Burroughs?  He claims half the people here aren't people as 
> well.  How did it go?  Venusians push heroin, Uranians are into sex,.....

nope, sorry.

Jude
From: jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Non-drug consciousness altering techniques...
Date: 30 Jul 1992 11:48:41 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: ozona.cs.utexas.edu

Being diabetic, I find that the hypoglycemia induced by an excess of
insulin relative to food/sugar intake brings about a quite interesting
altered state of consciousness.  One of the effects of low blood sugar
is that the more recently evolved portions of the brain go into
quiescence, to preserve what glucose there is for the more important
autonomic systems.  This is always a very interesting experience --
some of the effects I have noticed include a greater level of perceived
awareness of the internal workings of the mind (by which I mean that when
my blood sugar gets low I find myself doing instant replays of thought
sequences, and generally being more attuned to the processes, which require
more effort to get straight), a sense of relief from the quotidien constraints
of the superego, a general focusing of attention brought about by the
slight agitation / panic of hypoglycemia.

Just observing the ways in which thought is altered as systems shut down
is very interesting -- I've never taken any kind of psychoactive drug aside
from caffeine, so this kind of thing may be a rather common experience.

Of course, there is a large variance in hypoglycemic experience among 
diabetics and hypoglycemics.. I can't speak for anyone else.


-- 
Jonathan Abbey                                    jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu
the university of texas at austin                 Working, not speaking for
computer science/math/psychology                  Applied Research Laboratories
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: Transcendental Meditation
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:54:02 GMT

In article <hjnmp=9#@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de> mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz) writes:
>Hank Cohen <hank@westford.ccur.com> wrote:
>: Specifically TM is not very much like Zen meditation at all.
>Zen has a variety of approaches, some similar to the mantra-meditation and
>thought-following you described.
>
>: There is a tremendous volume of physiological research that verifies that TM
>: provides a profound state of rest and leads to more a more efficient and 
>: healthy physiology and psychology
>That isn't at all special to TM, but can be found in all meditation methods
>I've heared of.
>

now, no doubt i haven't read all the literature on this, but it seems quite
consistent from my reading that the physiological effects of any sort of
meditation tested thoroughly (including zazen, TM (tm), and some others) are
not particularly distinguishable from the effects of practice at progressive
relaxation techniques. this is quite a stable result.

one thing that does stand out in what i have read is that for some reason the 
best predictor of the size of the physiological effects of zenis not how
long the person has been meditating, or the effects they consider to have
realised from their practice, but the judgement of thier teacher in how 
far they had progressed in meditative skill. i think this indicates that there
is something going on beyond the quite superficial physical effects that are 
most commonly reported.

the only other result that stands out is a rather long-term study done in 
california on recividism rates among former prisoners at three mid- to high-
security prisons. in this case it was TM that was involved, and it seemd that
a length of regular practice was strongly correlated with not going back
to prison after a certain length of time. interesting.

see you all later.        
-- 
Scott Probst: Brain and Behaviour Laboratory, Psychology dept, SFU
              Graduate Issues Officer, Simon Fraser Student Society.
e-mail: probst@fraser.sfu.ca - ph: (604) 291 3354/3181 - fax: (604) 291 5843
              "yes, well, and here we go again..."   Dr H.S. Thompson
From: ianr@muppet.bt.co.uk (Ian Robertson )
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Sensitivity & Detachment
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:39:19 GMT
Reply-To: ianr@muppet.bt.co.uk
Organization: British Telecom


	I have often been told that I am very sensitive and that I should learn 
detachment. 
	The reason for this being that I tend to pick up and align with anyone 
in close proximity who is strongly focused. The effects range from body sensations
to mood and attitude ( not all the effects always at the same time or extent ). 
	I have heard it sugested that I visualise light or suchlike as a form of
protection - however by the time that I have recognised this need I have aligned
with the person and tend to want to go with it.
	In some ways I find these effects a trouble but they can also help me to
understand others.
	I would like to correspond with other people who have had similar experiences.

		LOVE & LIGHT
				Ian
**********************************************************************************
	weird:- fortune destiny; the fates, the three goddesses of destiny;
		an event destined to happen; an omen; mysterious saying; 
		someone with supernatural skill or knowlege; having the power
		to control the destiny of men; troublesome mystrious harmfull;
		weird strange uncanny; ordain by fate; assign a specific fate or
		fortune to; warn ominously !!!.
**********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: gordon@tramp.Colorado.EDU (GORDON ALLEN R)
Subject: Re: nirvana ?
Keywords: Nirvana
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:48:36 GMT

glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) writes:
> 
>The second question is realated to the question I asked earlier
>about having to give up passion for Buddhism.  I really need a
>better understanding of Nirvana.  Nirvana is supposed to be our
>goal, a heaven.  My impression is that in order to achieve
>Nirvana, one must not only let go of all desires, but one must
>give up existence.  Now suppose universal Nirvana is achieved.
>That would mean that all existence would cease.
> 
>This is where I get lost.  What is the point of ending all
>existence?  It sounds more like a suicide not just of the body,
>but of the soul.  Why?  What's left?
>

Without getting into an intellectual debate or even discussion, which would be
the antithesis of the so-called purpose of buddhism, etc., I'll leave a quote
by Fritz Perls:  "To suffer one's death and be reborn, is not easy".  Once you
get thru all the crap and mistranslations of the new testament, this is 
exactly what's being said.  Case in point:  the word repentance as used in 
Luke (13), Except ye repent, ye too shall perish.  The original word was 
metanoia and translated from the greek as repentance.  The meaning is totally
different, since metanoia means change one's mind, or to change how one looks
at things, which if substituted for repentance changes the whole meaning.  This
is what is meant by nirvana.  Its a desireless goal.  

As to your last question, "whats left?", some things can only be experienced.
What you are giving up is your conceptions about how things are, which includes
existence.  Are you giving up existence?  As you know existence to be.

 
-- 
Allen Gordon 		         *If the folly of but one of us was changed to*
Research Associate         	 *intelligence, and divided amongst a thousand*
gordon@tramp.colorado.edu   	 *toads, each would be more intelligent than  *
				 *Aristotle				      *
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:331 alt.paranormal:1964
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: a couple of questions
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:26:14 GMT
Followup-To: alt.consciousness
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Jul27.155203.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

>Don Juan is reported by Carlos Castaneda to have said that not all the "people"
>whom we see walking the earth are human beings; some are energy (thought forms)
>in the disguise of human form, and when one learns to *see*, she can tell the
>difference between such a force and a real human being.  does anyone have any
>experience with this?  opinions?

Casteneda has been debunked; however his books do consist of a soup of 
traditional beliefs, so there might be something in there.  Better to go to 
the anthropologists to check out what those Sonoran indians were really into 
though.

Read any William Burroughs?  He claims half the people here aren't people as 
well.  How did it go?  Venusians push heroin, Uranians are into sex,.....

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: mw@frodo.ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Meditation (was: TM's effect on populace)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 08:04:19 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Lauren Boyd <tertium@milton.u.washington.edu> wrote:
: It's a lot like exercise, I suppose.  We may start out with grand visions of
: how this will help us have the steely body from hell (and some continue to
: that goal), but part-way through to our goal, it's apparent that exercis
: is an objective unto itself.  Not always fun, but it certainly makes one
: feel better.
Even the objective of the exercise seems to imply that some "I here" does some
"exercise there". A useless distinction that may be left behind.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer )
Subject: odd sensations
Originator: glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:47:44 GMT

Every once in a while I just let go and I feel a wave of
pleasure pass over me.  It is a physical tingling sensation
that leaves me feeling peaceful.  I also have a similar
sensation when I let go and am listening to some classical
music that really moves me.  I know that this cannot be my
imagination because it is such a powerful sensation.
 
Last Sunday, I went to my first Quaker meeting, and sat I
silent meditation with them for around 45 minutes or so.  As
usual I felt this tingling sensation.  But also I saw through
a window in the trees a fuzzy greenish blue ball of light.  I
passed this off as my eyes playing tricks on me.
 
This week when an extremely filthy homeless person walked by
while I was waiting for the bus I started to put up the usual
walls I put up against people in my heart.  But then this time
I let go of all the walls to let him into my heart.  As I did
this I thought I saw this ball of white light come flying toward
me out of the corner of my eye and I felt it wedge into the left
side of my chest.  I think I can still feel whatever it was in
there right now.
 
I guess the question is, am I imagining these sensations?
(Aside from the wave of pleasure that I know I do not imagine.)
And if I am not imagining these sensations, what are they?
 
---
Either the world will be ruled according to the ideas of our
modern democracy, or the world will be dominated according to
the natural law of force; in the latter case the people of
brute force will be victorious.    -Adolf Hitler
 
[I]t is not Right that matters but Victory.  Have no pity.
Adopt a brutal attitude. . . . Right is on the side of the
strongest.                         -Adolf Hitler
 
Where love abounds, there is no will to power.  Where power
predominates, there love is lacking.  The one is in the shadow
of the other.                      -Carl Gustav Jung

Glenn                               glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: dwp+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Philips)
Subject: Non-drug consciousness altering techniques...
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:02:06 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U
Summary: something salient, shortly stated, sadly seldom satoric

From "Would the Buddha Wear a Walkman -- A Catalogue of Revolutionary Tools
for Higher Consciousness" by Judith Hooper and Dick Teresi.

In that book, the authors talk about "The Book of Highs: 250 Methods
for Altering Your Consciousness Without Drugs" by Ed Rosenfeld,
published by Quadrangle/New York Times Books.

They claim the book is out of print and hard to find.  But they talked
with the author and got him to recall 10 techniques which they have
provided.

My question is:  Does anyone out there have this book?  If so, is it
worth tracking down?

Thanks,

-Doug
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness