From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: Hello, I am a newbie
Reply-To: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov
Organization: Unisys/EPA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:16:32 GMT

In article <l7bei5INN6hq@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, drh@spock.EBay.Sun.COM (Live Long and Prosper) writes:
>
>>i used to hate to listen to people whine at meetings.  "life is so horrible"
>>"nothing good ever happens to me", "my shoelace broke","my spouse left me"
>>"i don't have any money" "i'm not famous".
>

>Sometimes, when "being out of touch with your feelings", and when "no one
>listened" is the issue.  And how many of us didn't grow up in dysfunctional
>families?  Recovery can be sharing *whatever* it is we need to share.
>Have you ever listened to Bradshaw "On the Family", or heard a Bob Earl tape?

One of the reasons that no-crosstalk meetings are so important to me is that my
family was one of those that didn't listen -- my parents and grandparents were 
always busy trying to "fix" me or find the thing that was wrong with me -- they
didn't have the skill of just listening and hearing me.  I sometimes get really upset
when certain people come in to  a meeting and "dump" their stuff.  I am gradually 
getting to the point where I'm realizing:

1.  It is their stuff -- if they choose to use their time dumping that's their business
2.  My discomfort with it is my stuff -- I'm responsible for looking at my part in why
     I resent the other person and their behavior -- it is not my job to fix them to make
     me feel more comfortable.
3.  It is ok to speak with someone after the meeting to reflect to them how I heard them
     coming across, and ask them about issues that they didn't talk about.
4.  It is not my job to "save" a meeting from someone dumping/whining  -- in a private
     setting I might say something to them about noticing that they seemed to be really
     into <X> and they were having some strong feelings about it and give them some 
     suggestions about finding some focus through plugging into the steps of the program.
>
... deleted some really good comments about multi-addicted issues

>Personally i feel these issues can kill you, and could lead to a slip in any serious
>program.

>I'm sure others from O.A., D.A., G.A., and Al-Anon know of life threating situations
>that were caused by various other forms of co-dependancy, or substance abuse, that is
>laughed at in X.A.  I long for the day when they are able to discuss these topics
>openly at X.A. meetings, because if they don't they will die!  One day, perhaps we
>will allow discussions of how these other diseases can lead us a SLIP in X.A.

One of the things I like best about my home meeting is that there are a number of us in 
that group who are openly dealing with multiple addictions and we encourage people to
look at addiction as a process that has many faces/heads on it and to approach the 
recovery process from a whole-person perspective.  It is very powerful to acknowledge
that my addictions are all connected -- using is using  -- the physiological effects have
degrees and variations -- the mental and spiritual effects are pretty much identical --
we act childishly (and sometimes crazy) and we kill off our spirit(not to mention sometimes
our bodies as well).

>I hope this generates some thoughtfull discussion, which will allow us *ALL* ultimatly to
>speak our real truth(s) at meeting level. I no longer use how I *feel* after a meeting as
>a gauge of how successfull it was.

This is a great point -- the success of a meeting is whether or not I shared what I needed to.
I find the more that I open up and reveal my own weaknesses and where I feel stuck, where I
was stuck and how I found a way to move again, what a particular step has/does mean to me,
an example of how I worked/am working a particular step, a trigger I'm dealing with, etc... those
are the things that turn a whining/bitching/moaning meeting into something with some 
substance -- I lead by example -- I don't expect other people to share their core stuff,
especially when I'm still sitting there and haven't said a word.  I try to not expect anything
and just jump in and share what has the most energy with me on/off topic and see  what
happens.

When I am open and rigorously honest -- then things change.