HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Motssers in history
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:53:12 GMT


Something I discovered recently.

Although the circumstances are less than happy (I think you
can guess), a friend of mine was recently generous enough to
let me go through much of his library and take those books
that interested me -- particularly books of gay & lesbian
interest, of which he's gathered a large and in some cases
fine collection over the years.

Among them is the November, 1974 issue of _College English_
("An official journal of the National Council of Teachers
of English").  Joe, who's been a teacher among his varied
careers, explained that this was one of the very first
special gay/lesbian issues of an academically respectable
publication.  The issue's topic:

	The Homosexual Imagination
		-- in literature
		-- in the classroom
		-- in criticism

	A special issue, edited by ...

It wasn't till after I had the books at home that I really
noticed the attribution line:

	... Louie Crew and Rictor Norton
	    ^^^^^^^^^^

Contents of the issue are:

	Sage Reynolds, "Frontispiece"
	Louie Crew & Rictor Norton, Guest Editors,
	   "The Homophobic Imagination: An Editorial"
	Rictor Norton, "An Interview with Eric Bentley"
	Jacob Stockinger, "Toward a Gay Criticism"
	Dolores Noll, "A Gay Feminist in Academia"
		{note the gender-neutral use of "gay" in
		those days!}
	Ron Schreiber, Giving a Gay Course
	Arnie Kantrowitz, "Homosexuals and literature"
	Anon. "Some Notes of a Homosexual Teaching Assistant
	   his First Semester of Ph.D. Work"

	Poems by Peter Robins, Eric Bentley, Daniel Curzon,
	   Dan L. Fee, Robert Lynn Penny, and Paul Mariah
	A Garland of Gay Proverbs, gathered by Harlequin
	   Paramount

	Roger Austen, "But for fate and ban: Homosexual
	   Villains and Victims in the Military"
	David Jago, "School and Theater: Polarities of
	   Homosexual Writing in England"
	James R. Giles, "Religious Alienation and 'Homosexual
	   Consciousness' in CITY OF NIGHT and GO TELL IT
	   ON THE MOUNTAIN"
	Jon L. Clayborne, "Modern Black Drama and the Gay Image"
	Julia P. Stanley, "When We Say 'Out of the Closets!'"
	Allen Ginsberg, "Gay Sunshine INTERVIEW" {excerpts}

	Checklist of Resources

So, Louie -- congratulations at this late date!

-R (history queen)


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ***APOLOGY*** (kindly read me)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 18:07:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <66653@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep27.164415.8523@spdcc.com>

Bob Donahue, who's been this way since his gerbil died, sez:

>Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) writes:

>Lots more insults --- but then again that's his forte.
>You *really* should take them to alt.flame - that *is* why
>the newsgroup exists...

I'm sorry, you seem to have mistaken me for a doormat.

You appear out of the blue, and rip into me, who hasn't said BOO
to you, and you actually thought I would just staunch the bleeding
and shrug it off?  Now you know better.  Please note, however, that
I have *totally* ignored the clawmarks you left all over two other
recent postings.

>Now for the part you REALLY aren't expecting.

>I sit corrected.  I had not placed the manager of the GBLO*
>Film List as you.  I suppose I figured that the person doing that

Apology accepted,

>couldn't possibly be so constantly nasty in all his other affairs.

bitch.

>I guess I was wrong about that too.

>BBC, who only had to admit that error ---

God, I hope your doctorate isn't in math.

>Frank on the other hand has lots of
>insults to explain...

Oh, that's easy:

I leave my computer unattended while I'm visiting my therapist.

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: More anti-queer violence in Oregon
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:43:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct4.074351.28092
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

(.. Or, "a day in the life of a faggot in Oregon". I've been meaning
to do some "impressions of life with the OCA" postings.. My life seems
very intense right now.)

I woke up this morning, and I got a call from my mom. She's fine. I
told her about the murders last week of two queer people, and she of
course thought it was horrible. She's coming around.

I took a shower, and now fresh and clean I read the newspaper. "Rock
thrown through gay activists window."

One of the anti-OCA organizations that has been formed is OUTPAC,
based in (I think) Salem. The head of the group, Scott, has been
running the office out of his home. This has proven unfortunate.

Last week his house was broken into, files were stolen, computer
equipment was damaged, and other acts of general terrorism were done.
This is not a new trend - the No on 9 and No on Hate offices have been
similarly damaged in the past. This is Scott's home, though, so it's
even scarier.

The cowards came back within a few days and did more damage. Scott
announced that the office had been moved from his house.

Last night a rock was thrown through his window with a hate-letter
attached.

Fortunately, these crimes are all getting at least a small amount of
media attention - they're buried in the paper somewhere, and I suspect
it's been mentioned on the TV at least once. People who are paying
attention will realize at least a little of what's really going on
here, how much we are attacked.

So I read the paper, and I got mad. I'd intended to actually do some
work today - I've got papers to grade, a big probability assignment,
and lots of computer work to do. But I was just so *angry*, I had to
do something. So I went down to No on 9 and stuffed envelopes for a
couple of hours.

The evening ends happily, fortunately. One of my professors had her
class over for dinner. I've known she is lesbian since before she came
to the college, but I didn't know officially. We had a nice dinner at
her house, with her lover, and we talked about her and how she was
getting along in Portland and what it was like for her to have a
same-sex lover at the college, in Portland with the OCA badness.  It
was very natural, and very civilized. The OCA hasn't gotten us yet.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 Shame is playback: exposure to disapproval
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: 27 Sep 1992 19:04:24 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <10417@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield) wrote:

> Inspired by the recent discussion of famous living out 
> people in bit.listserv.gaynet, I've decided to post my 
> list of queer men and women that I've painstakingly 
> compiled from various postings in motss and gaynet.
>
> I've taken out the doubtfuls, the speculations and the 
> did-it-once-but-I'm-het-now, crowd as not interesting.

I really hate these lists. 

What's the (non-speculative) evidence for including:

> Emily Dickenson                        author
> John Milton                            1608-1674, British author


What's the difference between:

> George Gordon (Lord Byron)             1788-1824, British poet laureate 
> Lord Byron                             poet 

And what the hell does *this* mean:

> Ramon Novarro                          actor (aka Sabu)

Ramon Novarro was the screen name of the Mexican-born, US silent
film star Ramon Samaniegos (1899-1968).  Sabu (1924-63; full name 
Sabu Dastagir) was an India-born US film star of sorts in the '40s 
and '50s.  Is it possible someone confused the two?  How could that
have happened?  Ramon Novarro was a dashing, handsome leading man. 
Sabu was a loinclothed jungle boy.  Novarro *was* gay.  About Sabu's
sexuality I know nothing.

Arne
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: "Cultural Elite (WAS Re: Camille Paglia on fashion)
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:24:29 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Oct2.174945.851@morrow.stanford.edu>
AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:

>"Newsweek" has included [Paglia] in their list of the "Cultural Elite".

Speaking of the "cultural elite", did you hear that Pat Robertson bought
the company that owns Mary Tyler Moore (MTM) Productions?

Linda Bloodworth Thomason, and her husband Harry (Clinton boosters
extraordinaires), who are associated with MTM for some show they produce
(Evening Shade?) had to comment on Robertson's being their new boss:

Harry Thomason said something like "It's always nice to welcome one more
to the cultural elite."

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark)
Subject: Re: Faggots
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:00:23 GMT

In article <72934@apple.Apple.COM>,
mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:
>
>>In article <mcmelmon-280992144400@mcmelmon.apple.com>,
>>mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep25.225442.26595@morrow.stanford.edu>,
>>>AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) wrote:
>
>>  Gambardella's?  We could meet there.  No, no, don't tell me what you
>>  look like.  I'll just look for the only person wearing a Bush/Quayl/92
>>  button.
>
>I was thinking La Pastaia, which on Thursdays-Saturdays has two
>'adorables' and one 'hunk.'  Next door is a Swedish place, where
>everyone (even the clients) are *natural* blondes.  Big, big
>blondes, too.  Especially the bar tender, who has a name that
>*sounds* like Pear (I have no idea how it's actually spelled).

  I've been to La Pastaia once.  The bread was hard, but the waiter
  wasn't, so I never went back.  The Swedish place - Fanny &
  Alexander - the service was *terrible* and they weren't even
  crowded, but our (slow) waiter *was* awfully cute.

  If you like "Italian" types, then Gambardellas (in Menlo Park) is
  for *you*!  The food is *just* as tasty.
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Results of Sexual Orientation---Handedness Surveys!
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:56:27 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <essui@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:

>Gene Ward Smith has already double-glazed the collective eyes of the
>soc.motss readership with a discussion of conditional probabilities,
>so let me just remark, by way of intuitive support for my statement,
>that if queers claim more than their fair share of lefties then more
>lefties must be queer than is either natural or just.

By saying that left-handers appear to be no more likely to be queer than
ambis or right-handers, I was merely remarking that the data was inadequate
to show anything.

We would need to know the fraction of queers and bis in the general population
to say anything, anyhow. We are at a disadvantage compared to our our
knowledge of left-handedness incidence.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Subject: Re: Hospital Study Suggests Gays Are Very Unlikely To Be Molesters
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA
	<PC.92Oct2195504@bacon.linus.mitre.org>
	<tdober-051092124841@toberkamper.llnl.gov>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:50:28 GMT

In article <tdober-051092124841@toberkamper.llnl.gov> tdober@llnl.gov (TDO) writes:

   In article <PC.92Oct2195504@bacon.linus.mitre.org>, pc@linus.mitre.org
   (Penny Chase) wrote:

   [stuff deleted]

   > The heterosexual men
   > responded most to the prepubscent girls, and then to the prepubescent
   > girls.                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
     ^^^^^

   Ahhhhhh...for some reason, I find this confusing. Could you clarify please?

Either my mind or my fingers were elsewhere. . . Replace the second
use of "girls" by "boys" (what a shame it isn't the other way.  *That*
would have been a *truly* amazing result :-)).

	Penny

--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
From: tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Red Rubbon Rant
Date: 5 Oct 1992 20:34:50 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


I've had a problem with them just because, at least in California,
red ribbons have also been used as symbols of the wearers' allegiance
to the War On Drugs (doing its best to deny medical marijuana to
PWA's, among other things).  There have been "red ribbon weeks" where
schools and employers try to make people wear the ribbons and sign the
equivalent of loyalty oaths.  For all I know this is now a thing of
the past, but as recently as last year there was one here.  I'd see
little kids wearing big ribbons as if they were prize farm animals,
and when I'd ask them why, get answers like "to make my parents happy"
or "if we wear them every day for a week, our school will give us free
ice cream cones."

So I've been really averse to wearing them because of the WOD
associations.  In the AIDS walkathon yesterday all the walkers were
supposed to wear them to identify as walkers, so that was the only
time I've done it.  In general I think wearing any kind of AIDS-
related political button would be a much better statement.

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|tachyon@deeptht.armory.com  \        /__    One of the Bivariant Illuminati |
|      tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu  \    /   /  One of these days I'll think of   |
|         tachyon@cats.ucsc.com  \/   /  something good to put in my sig.    |
 ----------------------------------\/----------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: Faggots
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:58:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.185712.12877@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge) writes:
>[To M M]
>Now be a good boy and run along now. You must be _this_ tall -- I'm holding
>my thumb and forefinger about a centimeter apart -- to go on this ride.

Oooh, Polly, you just reminded me what I want to do to MM:

I, too am holding my thumb and forefinger about an inch
apart, but I, I am CRUSHING YOUR HEAD! Ha ha ha!

Kate
why don't they crush heads on KITH these days? Maybe with the new
late-night timeslot...
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Paul Jabara
Date: 5 Oct 1992 19:03:08 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct5.225941.2510@spdcc.com> 
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes about me
and Greg Parkinson:

> I swear, you two girls must have undoubtedly done one another at some point
> in the 70's to judge by the circles you ran in.

There are probably at most only two degrees of separation between Greg 
and me.  Unless once, when I wasn't paying any attention....

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!  *NO*!  I couldn't have!

> Keep up those smooches.  I loove it when my friends get along.

Oh dear.  Greg, *please* say something mean about me.

Arne
From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: First No on 9 TV ad in Oregon
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:54:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep30.115416.7290
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep30.090527.13892@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:(Quoting _The Oregonian_ quoting a TV ad.)
>
>    Look at what the religous extremists of the OCA want to do to our
>    constitution. If Measure 9 passes, we'd take away citizens'
>    rights. No state's ever done that. We'll be forced to
>    discriminate. Our Constitution will contain embarassing language
>    that we'll have to teach our youngest children. The OCA. They call
>    themselves the religious right. But really, they're the religious
>    wrong. Vote No on 9. It's not just dumb, it's dangerous.
>
>Sounds good to me: I'm looking forward to seeing it myself.
>
>The Oregonian mentions something, and I will too: the ad never once
>says "gay" or "lesbian" or "homosexual". Whether this is a mistake or
>not is hard to say. (there's a history here, but I don't think it's
>worth relating..)

I don't think it is a mistake. If it were mentioned, then it would be
setting up a barrier.. The viewer would be somewhat disconnected from
the affected group. By framing it as just 'citizens' it is inclusive.
It points out what measure 9 really is. Taking away the rights of a
select group of citizens. At that level it really doesn't matter -which-
group of citizens it is, it could be some other group later on.

Scott


-- 
Scott Moir / Pentangle / Satyr ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
pentangl@Ursa-Major.spdcc.com  \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+) s+ m r p+     \/\/  # "What's that?"
These are my opinions, not SPDCC's    # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Queers murdered in Salem, Oregon
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:39:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.082737.4478@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Last Saturday, a molotov cocktail was thrown through a window into a
> house occupied by several people in Salem, Oregon. Two people died

You'd think by now I'd be past the stage of being surprised by any
expression of human murderousness. But I read this with shock and
horror. What *is* it with these people?

> when they were trapped in the basement while the house burned down.
> The two people who were murdered are (demographically) a black lesbian
> and a white gay man.

I wouldn't be additionally surprised if the races of the victims was a
factor in choosing a target. (I write this, and still find myself
shaking my head in wonder and despair at the very concept of "choosing
a target" for murder on this, or any other, basis.) A man and a woman
of different races, living together, and queer to boot. Raises *all*
the red flags for the psychotically bigoted.

> 
> Lon Mabon (head of OCA) got some air time saying "he thought it was a
> tragedy",

A "tragedy"??!!?? You mean like someone having the misfortune to be
wiped out by storm or flood? Where are the words "immoral", "hateful",
"murderous", "intolerable"?

> but that "it was inappropriate for No on 9 to be using this
> event as political propaganda." He also whined about how there have
> been some threats against his Shining Christian Knights.
> 
> (ObOpinion - yeah right, you weasel-eyed asshole. Your people aren't
> getting murdered by cowards who throw bombs at you. These people
> *died*, they died because they were queer. You want to claim that a
> couple of "smash the OCA" flyers are equivalent to this cold blooded
> murder?)

How many letters have been written to the Oregonian saying exactly the
above?

> 
> There will be a big No on 9 rally this Sunday in Pioneer Courthouse
> Square. I need to scream.

I should think so, indeed. And this should be screamed across the
state. Even if the OCA wasn't "responsible" in an intentional sense,
they are responsible for an atmosphere of hate that makes murderous
attacks more likely, and if 9 passes, yet more thugs will take it as
carte blanche.

It is inexpressibly horrible that these two people died. The least we
can hope for is that the publicity will produce a much-needed backlash
against the OCA.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:25:13 GMT

  Oh, no! Another nerve ending! Freedom Rings, and Pink Triangles.
I'm staying clear out of this one :-)

In article <1992Oct7.024138.1432@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> 	Um, pink triangles and freedom rings are ***NOT*** fashion
> statements.  *Especially* not the pink triangles.  When they are
> coo:pted to be "queer fashion" we have lost something VERY VERY VERY
> important.  Say - oh the entire symbolism of pride, not to mention
> any semblance to historical/cultural perspective.
> 
> 	Seen another way - why haven't yellow Star of David patches
> become a fashion statement?  Can you say cultural incongruity?
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (was Re: Northern Exposure
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:18:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.150034.2334@usl.edu> rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) writes:
>(Gayla M. Worrell) writes:
>>Although the sexuality of C & R was not blantantly expressed during this
>>episode, it was a pleasure to watch.  Two women, obviously (to me) lesbians
>>as the main characters of a prime time show. 
>
>I thought it was too subtle.

"My heart belongs to Roslyn?"  Too subtle?

>I read the book by Fannie Flagg "Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle
>Stop Cafe" and this weekend I finally got around to seeing the movie
>_Fried Green Tomatoes_, and in neither medium did I think for even
>one minute that Idgie and Ruth were anything other than good, platonic
>friends.
>
>Does anyone else feel this way?

No literate person that I've met.  Even my parents, who tend to
pooh-pooh *any* non-mainstream reading of films or books, saw them as
a lesbian couple.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jess has designs on *my* little boy!
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:48:02 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <BvDzLr.Lr5@cs.vu.nl>,
fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!), **HULK**, writes:
> BTW, to tone down the suspense a bit, I'm 80 kilos and 6 feet. Tall,
> that is.

Wow.  I'm only 10.5 stone and 1.74m.

(And it looks like I'm about to start going steady with
someone whose body metal weighs more than he does.)
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"To my surprise I find out I have a great imagination." -- Ivana Trump
From: mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Faggots
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:20:14 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

> 
> Run, don't walk, but run to the nearest bank and apply for a loan.
> Tell them that you want the money to buy a clue.  After speaking with
> you for a few moments, I am sure the loan will be no interest.  Lord
> knows that your posts are.

Then why does such a clever, witty, cerebral pundit as yourself feel
compelled to post in response?  To confirm that you are, in fact,
brilliant by coming up with an insufferably *cute* retread of a cliche
as old as Anderson?

Tu-wye hawdar, dah-ling.  Tu-wye hawdar.


Melmothra