HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gna@vardhan.uucp (G N Ananda Vardhana)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: Dilution of Kannada Language and culture
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:38:47 GMT
Reply-To: gna@vardhan.uucp (G N Ananda Vardhana)
Organization: Adams Software, Lake Oswego OR  USA

It is unfortunate that I have to write this in English! Anyway regarding the 
dilution of Kannada here how many of the first generation from Karnataka talk
kannada?? Not atleast 99% I have met! The fear of their children not learning
English besets them even in America. In India I have seen parents force 
themselves to talk in English to make the children learn faster. Personally
I feel whether there or here this fear is baseless. When I grew up in
Mysore my father (G T Narayana rao) a great advocte of kannada not only 
spoke pure kannada but used tough words in daily usage. Even today in my daily
talk with my family I use the same old pure kannada words and my family 
has no problems. My daughter can talk both the languages in equal fluency(4 Yr).

It is the same old repeating history. Parents when the kids are young to
facilitate themselves throw the kids in to Day Cares and when they grow big
and start dating crib! They neither know the language, nor understand the
culture.

Unless we understand the difference between Culture and the "belief in God"
nrither will have undiluted language nor culture. Culture and God are to 
unrelated entities. Normally when one fails to meet to the standards of what
the Culture demands he then resorts to God to balance it off! Just an example
in India Culture is going down the hill but temples are mushrooming
in each and every nook and corner! People might argue to improve the degrading
Culture more and more Temples are needed! But I dont think so! There is no end
to this argument.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: praveen@sirius.mcc.com (Praveen Vishakantaiah)
Subject: Engineering Colleges in Bangalore
Organization: Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corp.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:56:30 GMT

Concerning new engineering colleges in Bangalore, Raviprakash writes:

>> Is there a solution to this problem ?

Nimma haththira yeshtu jana goondagalu idare antha heli, ee preshnage
uththara sulabavagi siguththe:-) If I had a solution, I would not have
been studying in the United States or for that matter get my undergraduate
degree from outside Bangalore. What a pity, Kannadigas have to go outside
their state (reason: "Bangalore University students need not apply" in job
ads.) while students from outside come to Karnataka to get Engineering 
degrees (reason: dayavittu bandu bangalore annu halu (destroy kandri, milk
alla) madi)!

Also Sanjeev Managoli writes:

>> only two of these colleges have been approved by the expert 
>> committee .. .. .. The other colleges do not even find a mention in 
>> the recommendation of the committee.

I am surprised that they even went into the trouble of appointing an 
expert committee to tell the government as to which of the institutions
were qualified. 

>> Ironically, atleast three of these colleges by a liquor barons.

Maybe the government thought that it was not easy to stop the people from
drinking liquor, but would be wise to experiment to see if engineering
students perform better under intoxication. This way, the students pay the
equipment fees up ahead (in the form of capitation fees) and will not have
to worry or ask their parents for money to drink liquor. I am sure the liquor
barons would have done a good sales pitch! Also, just like how schools run
by swamijis teach Bhagavad Gita or should I say try to teach, the
engineering colleges can have happy hours where the students are taught
how to approach women while intoxicated (one of many things that can be
done at a lower cost than engineering colleges run by the government).

>> The expert panel has also recommended that a government committee should
>> visit the spot and satisfy itself about all infrastructural facilities.

I see this working already. Don't tell me that there are liquor barons on
the government committee. What a surprise?!!!

Rowdy Rangannana thamma:-):-) 
Praveen Vishakantaiah (side business - Computer Aided yenda manufacturing).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation, | Ph : (512)338-3736|
-- 3500 W. Balcones Center Drive                         | e-mail :          |
-- Austin, TX 78759.                                     | praveen@mcc.com   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- ALSO A HARD WORKING MEMBER OF :-)                     |
-- Computer Engineering Research Center,                 | Ph : (512)471-8013|
-- University of Texas, Austin.             e-mail : praveen@cerc.utexas.edu | 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: st1s0@elroy.uh.edu (Hans, Samir)
Subject: Anyone from Manipal?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:39:00 GMT
From: ravi@panini.eecs.umich.edu (C. V. Ravishankar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: Re: language again
Keywords: uu, uu, uu
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:22:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor

In article <1992Oct2.181526.9157@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> raja@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Malur Ra Rajashekhar) writes:
>
>  Sanskrit is the mother of most of the Indian languages and 
>hence in my opinion there is nothing wrong in using sanskritised
>kannada.  The relationship is so old and so close that it hardly
>makes a difference. Actually it adds to the beauty.

That's precisely my point.  Kannada is of Dravidian orgin, and its Sanskrit
vocabulary is a later feature.  Sanskrit is no more the "mother" of Kannada
than is Turkish.  If our ancestors had succeeded in keeping out Sanskrit,
Kannada would have been a very different language today.  However, Sanskrit,
with its all alien grammar and vocabulary, has greatly enriched Kannada.

One can't legislate a language, or alter popular trends even by passionate
argument.  Incorporation of loan words is a natural process, and has always
happened, and with all languages, and at all times.   Assimilation of loan
words simply does not occur unless a language is being enriched in the
process.  It makes no difference whether the new words come from Sanskrit
or from Bantu.

Languages survive because they evolve.  Inflexibility is the primary reason
why Sanskrit is a dead language today.  However, it was not always so.  Vedic
Sanskrit is very different from Classical Sanskrit because it was left free
to evolve.  Even more interesting is that even Vedic Sanskrit is a modified
version of the original language of the Indo-Europeans, and clearly
assimilated much from the local Dravidian tongues.  Aspirated and retroflex
consonants in Sanskrit are known to be of Dravidian origin.  Even the first
line of the Rig veda: "AgnimeeLay purohitam..." shows this influence.  The
"L" sound is Dravidian.

When Panini and the others codified the "correct" Sanskrit in later times,
it died of strangulation.  There was only one "proper" Sanskrit after that,
and it ceased to evolve.  There is much evidence that Sanskrit was already
a fossil by the time of Shankaracharya.  Even in Kalidasa's plays, only the
Brahmins and Kings speak Sanskrit.  The rest speak the Prakrit dialects.

The process of assimilation ensures that the loan words are appropriately
modified and incorporated into the gammar and the structure of the native 
language.  That was the purpose of my long list of Persian loan words in
Kannada that we generally don't even realize are of Persian.

Linguistic purity is an appealing concept, and I find the concept as
appealing as anyone else.  I'm just saying it doesn't make much difference.


-- C. V. Ravishankar
   ravi@panini.eecs.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: krishna@seas.smu.edu (Sanjay Krishna)
Subject: Re : Power hungry Karnataka
Organization: School of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:52:13 GMT

From: shankar@CS.ColoState.EDU (Bhanu Shankar)

>   A thought about the states share from Kalpakkam.  If i remember right it is only
>   40MW, and this too is not always available.  Ranagundam, again the states share is not
   
>   much, don't remember the exact amount.  The southern grid is not really a reality.
>   Power from Kalpakkam is sent via the Andhra route.  AP gives Karnataka its share of
>   kalpakkam from Ramagundam and takes it from TN (unless this has changed since i last
>   read about it).

I do not understand this posting from a technical stand point. You cannot 
allocate 40 MW to any state. It is installed capacity. The allocation to 
states is of course the output - which is in units of power - millions at 
least. Anyway, the article that you read probably referred to power that 
comes out of a 40 MW plant -but this is also confusing, since a lower 
capacity plant cannot yield all the ranges of voltage - all right ! I'll 
probably let Bhanu Shankar clarify it.        

Karnataka accounts for 22 % of South India's pop ( I normally use the number
of Lok Sabha seats which is something I can remember easily to give me an 
indication of the percentages of population. Although some people were 
arguing about certain states notably Rajasthan  be given some additional 
seats arising out of a greater population growth and so on, the rough 
weightages still stay at least as far as percentages are concerned - for 
South India - Kerala 20, Karnataka 28, Tamil Nadu 39 and AP - 42 - so my 
figure is approximately ok :-)). If the Central govt makes an investment 
in lets say AP then AP gets the home state benefit of 30 % of the output
and the rest of the power is divided up based on the population. There 
has never been any quarrel about the share. Infact, Karnataka has been 
known to "hog" some of the power intended for Kerala - since Kerala joined
the southern grid much later and the high voltage transmission line thru 
Karnataka was built with great reluctance :-). 

Kalpakkam is a small scale plant and Karnataka is only worried about power
from Neyveli. I doubt if Kalpakkam generates a lot of power and is 
supposed to be very unreliable. Maybe someone can clarify. 


>    Now you are dreaming......As long as the people of Karantaka elect the Cong(I)
    Maybe I am :-) I am also dreaming that Dallas beats Phili next Mon :-) 

   for Lok Sabha this will never materialize.....The state will never have to be

   bribed to vote for them and thus.......(yes, i am very cynical about the foresight
   of the center)....

|> 
|> Sanjay 



Regards, 

Sanjay 

Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
From: josepaj@eng.auburn.edu (Alvin J. Joseph)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.karnataka
Subject: EE student @ Pennstate, and NCSU
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:39:04 GMT
Reply-To: josepaj@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

I am trying to reach any EE student at Pennstate, and NCSU (Raleigh). If anybody has any contacts please reply soon.
Thanks in advance.

Alvin
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.electric-midget
Subject: Re: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:18:16 GMT
Organization: Milo's Meadow

THEIR IS NO KNEAD TWO BEE SCARRED OF EELS.  THEE SPELL CHEQUER WORKS GRATE.

CATO
-- 
"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth from the
 stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud.  There is _always_
 something." -- Robert Penn Warren | Vote Cthulhu in '92! | adam@rice.edu
If Rice shared my opinions I wouldn't have this disclaimer | 64,928
From: wohler@sapwdf.UUCP (Bill Wohler)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.electric-midget
Subject: Re: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:03:23 GMT
Reply-To: Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de>
Organization: SAP AG, Walldorf, Germany

[distribution limited to alt.culture.electric-midget]

schrey@oak.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy M. Schreyer) writes:
>   Although this request may seem harmless, it may also be a ploy by
>   the midgets to gather names and addresses of good-natured people
>   around the world with Internet access to use as PAWNS in their
>   plan to take over world!  Or they may have found out what how their
>   jello-shooters can be enhanced with the photographic gel on the fronts
>   of most postcards!

  i've met bernd.  it's true!

Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de> <sapwdf!wohler>
Heidelberg Red Barons Ultimate Frisbee Team
Newsgroups: alt.culture.electric-midget
From: bennett@Eagle.mcs.kent.edu (Dan Bennett)
Subject: Re: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:22:50 GMT

In article <3929@sapwdf.UUCP>, wohler@sapwdf.UUCP (Bill Wohler) writes:
|> [distribution limited to alt.culture.electric-midget]
|> 
|> schrey@oak.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Timothy M. Schreyer) writes:
|> >   Although this request may seem harmless, it may also be a ploy by
|> >   the midgets to gather names and addresses of good-natured people
|> >   around the world with Internet access to use as PAWNS in their
|> >   plan to take over world!  Or they may have found out what how their
|> >   jello-shooters can be enhanced with the photographic gel on the fronts
|> >   of most postcards!
|> 
|>   i've met bernd.  it's true!
|> 
|> Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de> <sapwdf!wohler>
|> Heidelberg Red Barons Ultimate Frisbee Team


ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH  VE HAF BIN DISKOVERT UND VILL SOON BE ZHA WICKTOMS
OF TERRRRRIBLE ATTAKS.  QUIVK HAF AGENT PEROT STHART HIZ ATTAK ON ZHA
GOBERMENT OV UZ.  VE KAN VIN IV VE GET ZHE JUMP ON ZEM 

MOBOLIZ ZHA VIZALS.  ZHEY R VORKING GOOT VITH ZHE NU LONG LIVE BATRES
UND KAN SAVE UZ.


ARNOLD
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,soc.culture.usa,soc.history
From: urkastig@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Robert Kastigar)
Subject: Re: The Real Voice of Adam Smith
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:11:46 GMT


In a post on 1 Oct to alt.amateur-comp, Jim Bowrey wrote. . .
---------
>>Employees are simply individual companies.  Fair competition is
>>the key.
----------

This is an argument often heard, but isn't quite true.

Individuals may join together to act collectively.  The sum is
much  greater than the parts.  When this happens, they are no
longer  "individual companies" but rather a part of a much larger
organization.

There are many examples of this in business.  Businesses merge,
to form a larger, more effective and stronger company.  There are
'individually owned franchise' businesses.  When this happens,
there is reduced or eliminated competition between the smaller
companies that joined together.  They compete in the marketplace
against other companies who have not joined with them. 

This is precisely what happens when individuals join together to
form a unit and collectively bargain.  They stop competing
against each other and compete against the open-market, non-union
workers.

There is a long history in the law on this subject.  The IRS
distinguishes between "independent contractors" and "employees"
and different rules apply.  The Labor Department distinguishes
between "independent  contractors" and "employees" too.

Is your individuality given up when you join a union? Yes.

Is competitiveness reduced when you join a union? Yes.

But the individuals who belong to labor unions know that the
price that's paid by them when this happens is more than balanced
out by the gains they make in terms of job security and economic
reward.  This is to say nothing about the satisfaction of working
along side of people who are mutually supportive, people who are
willing to work and  sacrifice for everyone's mutual benefit. 
This is people caring about other people.

There is no law, natural or man-made, that says an individual
must  remain and act as an "individual company."
From: cg711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Howard Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
Subject: Re: Defending Technology:Part I
Date: 2 Oct 1992 17:54:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


HI ALL: It took me about an hour to read and digest this article
        and I will reply to it as I read up on PETTY-HUME-ETC.
        I am trying very hard to understand your point.Just wanted
        to let you know I read part 1 and part 2 and some of the 
        comments that were made. FROM WOUNDED IN N.Y. AND HEALING
        HOWARD.2PM 10/2/92
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:54 news.misc:1676
From: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc
Subject: Re: Defending Technology: Pt II (Usenet News) Draft for Comment
Date: 30 Sep 1992 07:16:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) says:

>In article <1992Sep21.054200.9674@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>>In article <19jktcINNobv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>>
>>>was conveyed. And the fact that posts were entered into the 
>>>"public domain" was established as an essential principle of the 
>>>net.
>>
>>Good lord, we just had 500 megabytes of debate on this matter, and
>>this mistaken notion still comes up?
>
>	You've left out too much context.  At the start of "the net" in
>1980, the US was not a Berne signatory, and the articles were generally
>considered "public domain" (at *that* time.)
>
>	Part of the "Net Cultural Assumptions" that was not folded back
>into this work pointed out that this assumption is no longer valid and that
>is one of the problems that the net is still dealing with.  The "public
>domain" of articles assumption changed effectively overnight when the USA
>revised its copyright law in the late 1980's.
>-- 
What is the assumption that is now valid? I missed the 500 megabytes
and am not really interested in rehashing it, but I would be
interested in some summary of what the conclusions were.
>
               Ronda


-- 
Ronda Hauben  Amateur Computerist Newsletter
P.O. Box 4344   other email addr:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: schwager@cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schwager)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Commercialization of the Nets?
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:26:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: mike.schwager.718388773
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben) writes:


>     The following article appeared in the University of Michigan 
>Information Technology Division publication INFORMATION TECH-
>NOLOGY DIGEST, Volumne 1, Number 10, September 7, 1992 on page 3.
> 
>     Can anyone explain what this is all about? Doesn't the 
>agreement this article describes violate the non-commercial 
>essence of the Internet? I thought that government participation 
>and public contribution to the developemnet of the Internet was 
>predicated on the non-commercial nature of the traffic that the 
>Internet would carry. 
> 
>        Merit Network Signs Agreement
>       to Pass Commercial Data Traffic

Read the MacWeek of 9/28/92, page 30.  They talk about commercial use of
the Internet.  Merit is the commercial counterpart to NSFNet, and runs a
parallel backbone for commercial users.  To be sure, it's a sticky
situation.
-Mike
aka, Mike Schwager               |"I think we don't have ideology.
INTERNET:schwager@cs.uiuc.edu    | We don't have theology.
                                 | We dance."        -Japanese Shinto Priest
University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., for whom I do not speak
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc,sci.econ,comp.society.futures
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Defending Technology: Pt II (Usenet News) Draft for Comment
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:25:47 GMT

In article <1aci5eINNqv0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
>>No, TCP/IP has nothing to do with USENET.  It's orthogonal.  And UUCP
>
>What does orthogonal mean? 
>
>Is it that the netnews is carried on various networks like
>the internet (which operates via a set of common protocols or
>standards?) and other networks as well like uucp ?

Right.  TCP/IP, UUCP and other protocols are transport protocols.
The Internet, Alternet, the phone system are all data pipes, using some
of those protocols.   USENET is a conferencing system.

If you will, USENET is the software, and the networks are the "hardware."

>Well estimated does seem a more precise word - but it does
>seem that usenet gets to quite a large number of people.

Indeed.  Though a much less active group of people.  Consider the
Science Fiction area on GEnie, which I estimate has around 3500 participants.
(on during the last month).    It has around 1 megabyte of traffic a day,
including headers.

Consider rec.arts.sf.movies, the USENET groups with 44,000 estimated
participants on the arbitron list.   It did a megabyte in all of July.
All the SF groups together are around 80,000 participants, and about 15
megabytes per month.  (Count comics and trek in this.)

If USENET's numbers are that high, then the participation figures are
way below that of the commercial online business.  That may be no suprise,
but this far below?

>somehow objectively posts do enter into the public domain unless
>one is able to start registering copyrights at some point nad 
>also is prepared to go to court to defend violation. And it seems
>that that's not really what the majority of the people who post
>to usenet are interested in.

Now you see the reason for the 500 megabytes of debate.  What you write
is, quite simply wrong under the law.  Lack of registration does not
diminish copyright on a work.  (It diminishes getting awarded court costs
in a lawsuit, and that's it.)  Not going to court does indeed mean no
damages, but a tendency to not go to court does not diminish rights in any
way.   And as for what a majority think, you don't speak for them and neither
do I.

>But somehow commercial use is restricted - (though there seems an
>effort currently to change this unfortunately) - and somehow this

Restricted only by convention that it be done in the proper place, in
the same sense that flaming is restricted or posting about the Amiga
computer is restricted.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366