From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 16 Oct 92 11:05:31 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: sej5g@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Susie Juroff)
>The thing that I would guess appeals to Sinead about Rasta is
>their belief that God is actively everywhere, including
>(especially!) in ourselves - a part, a real part, of each of us.
>Hence the Rasta saying "I and I" this is God and I, the
>two-part me. God and I are going for a walk, this is what God
>and I think. Language reflects belief - imagine genuinely
>feeling that close to God, that worthy of God.

Yes, yes, essentially gnosticism, it's been around a long time,
crops up all over the place, at best is trite and simplistic,
at worst very dangerous. The danger is quite apparent in the
way you've put it. What a source of pride and bigotry this is
"whatever I think is what God thinks".

Now you can see the essential difference between Christianity
and Gnosticism. Christ said that "whatever you do to the least
of my brethren you do to me". Essentially, it's about seeing
God in others. Gnosticism on the contrary is self-centred,
seeing God in self, it's about saying "I possess God", and
ultimately "I am God".

> In an MTV Europe interview, Sinead was saying that
>she thought the Church takes God away from us, makes Him so
>divine, sacred, special, that we are too common to touch Him,

Yes, about encouraging a sense of humility. Aren't half the
problems in the world caused by selfishness and pride? Is it
not a thoroughly good idea to encourage a sense of humility?

>to know Him, that they oppress us (in many other ways, as well)
>by denying us access to God except through those more holy than
>we. She believes that the abuse that has been perpetuated by the
>Church and its system on us causes us to abuse each other and
>our children - that we have been made to feel not good enough
>for God.

I see, so if we are all encouraged to believe we are individual
little Gods, things will be better?

>the name of God and Christianity. Her actions don't speak well
>for themselves, but if people would listen a little harder to
>what she's saying, they might not judge her so harshly.

I'm not saying that Ms.O'Connor's actions are shocking or
wrong. I am saying that her views are commonplace,
unremarkable, and could probably be found in any undergraduate
student hostel kitchen anywhere in the country. Simply because
she's good at singing does not make her any more worth
listening to when she's spouting pop philosophy than it makes
any other naive person who's discovered a bit of pop philosophy
worth listening to. However, this may not be apparent to her
since as you say she thinks that her thoughts are God's
thoughts.

> And who
>are all these wonderful Christian folks, attacking and judging?
>Judge not, lest ye be judged, how can you see a speck in your
>brother's eye when there is a beam in your own, etc. Any
>judgement anyone calls down on Sinead is mega hypocritical. She
>attacks one thing and they attack her. Makes a heap o' sense.
>Have I been asleep while the central message of Christianity
>became revenge and judgement?

I am not calling for revenge on Ms.O'Connor. She is free to put
her point of view, I am free to put mine. It is a pity that
rational argument is often confused with personal attack. Not
being a gnostic, I am not setting myself up as God to say what
actually is right and wrong. I am saying what I personally
believe to be right, wrong, or in this case merely misguided.

Matthew Huntbach