From: barry@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu (Barry Kort)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro
Subject: Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Date: 6 Sep 92 11:48:21 GMT
	<1992Sep4.160621.3048@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
Followup-To: sci.space
Distribution: sci
Organization: MicroMuse

Many thanks to all who responded to my posting on this topic.

I passed along all the responses to my colleague, who asked me to
post his reaction here.

Barry Kort

=====================================================================
From: majere@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu (Michael Majere)
Subject: Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 1:29:14 EDT

Let's see if I get the names right. :)

MM > > > > Michael Majere (me) writes:
BK > > > Barry Kort writes:
JS > > James Schaefer writes:
BK > Barry replies:
Then me again. :)

BK > > > A colleague of mine, who claims to be knowledgeable in such
BK > > > matters tells me:

MM > > > > A fairly large team <at NASA>, is planning the terraforming
JS > >                                       ^^^^^^^^

JS > > Studying.  That is a FAR cry from planning.  Some people are looking
JS > > into it.  And don't get all upset about looking into the matter, one
JS > > of the things being studied is whether or not changing Mars to allow
JS > > human habitation is a good thing (ie, should we? or should we
JS > > leave it as a "national park)".

Researching may be the best word here. Tho stages of implemtation are
being developed they are based on current technology and are, shall
we say 'in pencil'. Actual field work is being done on the subject
in Dry Valley, Antartica which is belived to be the place on earth
that resembles the surface of mars the closest (due mostly to temp
and the scarsity of the building blocks of life). It is quite obvious
that there can be no 'planning' as James referres to the word until
some type of research facility is actually set up on Mars.

The opinion of Christopher McKay (Mars project, NASA Ames RC) is that
we should attempt to terraform mars to learn about the development
of life on our own word. He feels that mars contains 'life' (or
the soup thereof) within the perma-frost, which quite possibly is
in the RNA (pre-DNA, theorized) form. He feels that to not
terraform mars would be a loss of a great learning potential.

BK > That makes much more sense to me than what my colleague asserted.
BK > I can see NASA doing a lot of research on this issue, studying
BK > [deleted]                     ^^^^^^^^

Yeah, the better word. :)

BK > other planets before making any plans to actually implement such
BK > an important (and potentially irrevocable) decision.  

Actually it is not *that* irrevocable. It can be stoped up until
the point that frozen CO2 starts to become in it's natural state,
a gas.

JS > > You know, if you hadn't used such inflammatory language ("destroying
JS > > the planet", "polluted". . .)  you might have gotten a better
JS > > response.  But anyway, even IF someone decided to to it, we couldn't
JS > > realistically begin the process in anything under 200 years.  The
JS > > scales are just too large.  Also, the process would take thousands
JS > > of years, and so, even 1-200 years into the process, we would still
JS > > have a chance to turn it off, with minimal damage.

It was not my intention to sound 'against' the terraforming of Mars.
I am *very* much for it and would like to see the research continue
even if we don't begin it for another 200 years.

Okay, McKay's definition of Terraforming means that life...in the form
of algae could exist (not humans). Here are his figures: it would take
100 years from the point of turning on 10 very large 
chlorofluorocarbon factories pumping one part per billion before a
warm thick CO2 atmophyere is reached, oh that is with a considered
greenhouse effect. Then plants could be planted on the surface (oh
there is flowing water at this time) harsh plants tho...and after
about 100,000 years a human would be able to walk on the surface
without the aid of any pressure/oxygen suit. 

BK > I agree, completely, James.  I will pass along your remarks to my
BK > colleague, who I am sure will be glad to learn that his understanding
BK > of NASA's program was in error.

I wasn't in error. If you needed me to clear something up for you you 
should have just asked me. The topic of the letter in which I wrote
about the terraforming of mars was not even based on that subject.
Rather, it was a brief mention of the intent. If anyone wishes
that receives this letter I can provide catalog numbers of the nasa
reports on this subject (Tho a bit of digging is involved. :)

JS > > Finally, even if we COULD DO IT, and DECIDED TO DO IT, what is wrong
JS > > with that, or does your friend believe that humans should become
JS > > extinct just so that they do NOT interfere/interact with any part
JS > > of nature?

There is nothing wrong with it. The person that sent you the letter
failed to mention it was written is sarcasm. sorry for the misunderstanding.

BK > Here, I am sure my friend will have substantial thoughts and
BK > commentary  to contribute, which I invite him pass along to you.

Thank you Barry, sorry for the mix-up James. I am interested in the
group my comment found it's way too, how could I go about being a
part of it, I would like to further discuss Mars in your group.
I have been an avid fan of the Red Planet scince I can remember. :)

BK > My own expectation is that any future decision to proceed will have
BK > been undertaken with due consideration for protecting the future of
BK > both the planets we visit and the viabililty of our own civilization.
BK > Whether and when we proceed is not so much a moral issue as an issue
BK > of proceeding in a thoughtful and responsible manner.

I tend to feel we should try even if the chance of failure is high.
Whether we suceed or fail we have learned...

-- 
Michael Majere (aka Priam_Agrivar)         priam_agrivar@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu
Director, Space Administration               space-admin@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu
MicroMUSE at MIT                                   chezmoto.ai.mit.edu  4201
Newsgroups: sci.space