From: peterd@bunyip.com (Peter Deutsch)
Subject: Re: index for all of gopherspace
Organization: McGill University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:52:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.022146.1215@mercury.unt.edu> billy@sol.acs.unt.edu (Billy  
Barron - VAX/UNIX Systems Manager) writes:
> peterd@bunyip.com (Peter Deutsch) writes:
> 
> >This echoes the point I was trying to make in one of my previous posts. 
> >Providing a good Yellow Pages service is a different puppy from 
> >providing a great tool for easy interactive browsing of collections of 
> >information. your browsing tool is a great way to access the 
> >information once it is built up (so a gateway to this service, with
> >a suitable link at the top of every Gopher hierarchy, seems to make 
> >sense) 
> >
> *throws up violently* ;-)  That is EXACTLY the opposite of what I am seeking
> with my Gopher server.  Our goal here at NT is to hide where the data
> is from the end user.  I've talked to a lot of users.  The theme I always
> hear is "I just want the data.  I don't care where it is and really do not
> want to know."  Transparency is the goal.  It requires time and effort  
though.

<* swoons, coughs blood and expires gracefully *> ;-)

Actually, my goal is not to hide the data, but to hide the access methods. I 
don't  want to have to show users that they are using FTP, HTTP, whatever. 
I think it is a matter of personal taste if users chose to "visit the info 
shop" to ask it questions, or browse around discovering things in your 
Gopher tree. Of course, some people are visual, some textual. No one solution 
will satisfy all users, either.

Actually, given your extreme physical reaction to some of my proposals, you 
would probably be interested in the work being done in Australia by (I
think) Steve Cliff. He's integrated archie, Prospero and anonymous FTP
to create an entire shadow of the world's anonymou FTP archives. A user
connects (via anonymous FTP) to the AARnet archive. By cd'ing into an
appropriately named directory, the user can start browsing the entire 
directory tree of any corresponding archive site (using the info in archie's
database and features of Prospero to fetch the needed info). Once a desired
file is found, the user initiates an FTP get. The system checks to see if
there is a cached copy, and if so whether it is current (a single quick
check with the source to compare last update times). If not, it is
copied down to Australia and made available, otherwise it is served 
immediately to the user.

I think this is an excellent blend of technologies, making use of the
strengths of each component. If only all our work could blend so smoothly.
I trust you feel better now? :-)


BTW, the point I was making by calling for a Gopher Index at the top of
each server was that, like hypertext, I don't hold out much hope that
the "single sea of information" model of a single Gopherspace can possibly
scale to include millions of machines and hundreds of millions of users 
(which is where we are undoubtably heading). I like the idea of
"communities", and coming "into" a community for services, info etc. As
part of this, I see "information servers" (such as archie) being 
a part of this.

I guess it comes down to what my information model is that I want to
present to the user. I thought it would be okay to offer up the 
occasional "informational gas station" to users, rather than ask them to 
remember where everything resides themselves. Users can simply pull in, ask a 
few quick questions and be on their way. The suggestion to add one to the top
of each Gopher tree was merely standardizing to allow users to become
comfortable about where the will find the gas stations when entering a strange
town (or do you object to _all_ gateway services?)

And I can see you feel queasey from the fumes, but do you _have_ to throw up so 
spectacularly on my nice new screen? :-)

(BTW, read "petrol station" if you were brought up where they speak "proper 
English" :-)
	
 
				- peterd

Newsgroups: alt.gopher