HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: explaining a joke
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:48:39 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


I got on my mail the following question, and since some others may be
interesting in the answer I am putting that here.

>ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>> O.K. Jewish calenders do not pay attention to 25 dec. and the SHMONA
>> YEMEY MILA (8 days till the circumcision) till 1st Jan,
>>
>>   But they to pay atension to the April 1st and the TISHA YARCHEY
>> LEIDA  (9 month of pregnancy )     ^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Shalom     Gideon Ehrlich

> Sorry Gideon, but I didn't understand what you meant with the last
> sentence.

........................................................................
 8 days till the circumsion , and 9 month of pregnancy - reffer to the
Sedder song.

There is a joke, explaining  the custom to lie on April the 1st.
"Since April 1st hapend to be about 9 month before jesus birth, and
since Maria lied on that date , April the 1st - people do on that day
just what she did".

 It make sense that the joke was made within the society that follows
the April 1st custom , namely the European christian society - but I
can't say that for sure.

gideon ehrlich

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: The Location of Eden (Re: Torah In A Torah Context)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:58:44 GMT

In <BuHr3A.97A@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:

>God can keep us from seeing Eden.  But then why tell us so much about it,
>and why have it guarded by winged creatures instead of just putting up
>a force field?  Or even just remove it from earth?

Why tell us so much about Abraham - was it so we should dig up his
grave and do carbon-14 dating?

This discussion is utterly pointless.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:52:01 GMT

In article <36962@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski) writes:
> In article <matthew.714799780@mugga> matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Matthew Zalbiciewski) writes:
> >saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
> 
> 
>  Sorry, Sam, but I think you got carried away a little. 
> I don't remember anyone here on the net claiming that
> Poles were the intended victim of the Nazis. What people
> do say is that Poles were also victims of the Nazis.

I'm not sure that was true.  The Western Polish lands which
had been in dispute between Germany and Poland in the past
were being evacuated of Poles too.  I saw a documentary once
about Polish people going to Germany in the 70's to try to
find their children taken away during the war to be raised
in Aryan households.  Some Polish families succeeded in finding
their war-time children, but these children now grown didn't
want to leave their new families.

It was my impression that many Polish civilians were massacred
in this region.  It is also my impression from my holocaust
readings that the Germans intended to clear Poland of Poles
after they were done with the Jews (had the war been fought
more successfully I suppose).

> 
>  Now on the subject of antisemitism in Poland. Mainly right-wingers,
> ultra-nationalists and such were anti-Semitic but they did
> not become a dominant force. Still, they did a lot of damage
> to the Polish-Jewish relations. I am sure it will not be difficult
> to find sources, for anyone who wants to read about it, with  
> detailed description of what the anti-Semitic propagandists
> said and what harm they have done to the Jews. 
> 

When Poland was a feudal country,  the nobility and landed
gentry who owned much of the land brought the Jews into their
service because of their skills in business and accounting.
Jews managed the Polish estates, and Jewish towns tended to
grow up around feudal estates.  Isaac Bashevis Singers'
novel "The Slave" gives a rather good account of the early
life in the town of Pilz, and the aftermath of the
Chmielnicki massacres.  The Polish peasantry tended
to be very against the Jews because they were associated
with the rich landed oligarchy (note Chasidic clothes are
adapted from the clothing of the Polish aristocracy), as
well as Catholic doctrine which taught religious anti-semitism.

I think in the 20th century you found a more tolerant attitude
among the Polish middle classes, and a more anti-semitic attitude
among the rural community.  This is due to the historical
economic and social positioning of Jews in Polish society
as well as their religious and social differences.



		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What is chalitza?
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:34:01 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)

When a married man days childless, his brother is offered a choice of
marrying the widow to propagate the departed man's name, or to not do
so.  The latter is now the obligatory choice, at least among Ashkenazi,
and involves a rather odd ceremony, whereby the brother's shoe (and a
special shoe at that) is taken off, the widow spits at the ground in
front of him, and some other stuff.  This is called "chalitza", from
the Hebrew for removing (ie, the shoe).  See Deut 25.

I mentioned it since this is rare enough that most of us haven't done
it, and the few who have, other things being equal, may be said to have 
done "more" mitzvos than the rest of us.

Not to be confused with "chaleetza", a prisoner of war.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:47:59 GMT


jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

>  unambiguous usage would be "Nazi operated death camps for Jews
                                                         ^^^^^^^^
>  located in Poland."
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

1. The camps were not only for Jews.
2. The camps were in German occupied Poland, not in Poland.

I suggest: Nazi operated death camps in German occupied Poland.

Now a comment in respect of point 1 above. According to Sam Saal's
logic, you seem to be trying to minimise the Holocaust. Sam Saal said
a few days ago:

|Only if you are attempting to deny that Gypsies, Catholics, Blacks,
|homosexuals, Poles, etc. were targeted and/or murdered there.  I'm not
|willing to minimize the Holocaust in any way.


MB
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15527 soc.culture.polish:2443
From: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:41:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Aef9xnW00WB6IqTUUK
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I was surprised to see that my fellow Jews following this thread,
after being told to go to the history books, did not do so.  The
Polish posters are perfectly right in stating that the Polish
government (up to the Saxon accession to the throne, in 1697),
has practically had *NO ANTISEMITIC RECORD*.  That at a time when
both in Western Europe and in Russia, official antisemitism was
almost constantly the case.
The Sigismunds and Bathori have been Polish Kings who granted
equal rights to the Jews, and who - because of their simpathy to
the Jews, as a result of the benefits they had from Jewish
professionals (especially personal doctors) - have always spoken in
favor of the Jews.  Often they had to intervene to rescue Jews from
the hands of the Church.
It is the Catholic Church of Poland that succesfully transformed
the Polish population into one of the most antisemitic peoples
that Europe has ever known.  The blood liebel was most used by
this Church; this Church has continuously supported the view of
Jews as killers of Christ (despite the Papal Buls and the Polish
Kings' continuously reminding the Church leaders about the falsity
of the accusation).
Their success in practically creating a nation of antisemites is easy
to understand: the uneducated Pole who believed in the Church and its
authority even more than in that of the Polish rulers was the perfect
material.  Over generations, the myths they were told by their Catholic
priest have transformed themselves into "facts".  To this day the
Poles keep with them that legacy.
There is only one way to change this, and that is that the maker be
the breaker.  The Chatolic Church is still the most influential
institution in Poland.  Unfortunately, it is also still contributing
to the perpetuation of antisemitism.
I made friends here with Poles that tell me that in their churches in
Poland, to this day, Jews are continuously presented as the source of
evil, the killers of Christ, and... as the cause of communism.

Rad
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 01:24:06 +0200
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:

> I live in a fairly decent neighborhood in Los Angeles, but yet am afraid
> to let my wife or kids go out alone at night. Unfortunately, there
> have been too many incidents lately.
> 
> However, I have a friend visiting from Israel, who claims that in Israel
> you can let your wife and kids go for a walk at 2 in the morning,
> and not have to worry.
> 
> Hayim Hendeles


Your wife and kids could go for a walk at two in the morning in ANY european
country (besides former Yugoslavia) and also in some south american countries
(like Chile, Uruguay, Argentina, etc.) even if you live in not so decent neigh-
bourhood: I'm sure that to walk at night in any mayor city in the USA is a
dangerous venture! 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: murray@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (murray kahl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Neve Shalom
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:55:48 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

> In article <1992Sep10.234855.31@apap4> karner@apap4.pap.univie.ac.at writes:
> >
> >      Hi...I would like to have some information about the settlement
> >      Neve Shalom (where it exactly is, how many people of each religion
> >      live there, when it was founded, ....
> 
> Neve Shalom was founded about 20 years ago . It is located about half
> the way Ramle-Jerusalem. Since its purpose is demonstrating
> tolleration among people it is located out but close to the areas
> occupied by Jordan till 67. there are about 6 families, their
> religions are not well defined since there  while being there there
> were some mix-marriage cases among the settlers.
> The daily Mariv reports about their bitter struggle for love and peace
> among the group during the gulf-war when  Arab members of the group
> supported Saddam Hussein scuding Israel and the others opposed that.
> Over all that group is meaningless, almost no one even know they
> acctualy exist, but still it is an interesting minor sociological
> expirience.

They are quite active in money raising functions. I attended one here in 
South Florida and their approach was that this will bring peace through 
understanding; and, of course, the rest of us are fascists. It was 
interesting that out of about 100 attending, there wasn't a single Arab. 
Draw your own conclusions!
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (S. H. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Patrilineal Descent
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:40:14 GMT
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY

In article 18877@cc.gatech.edu, amir@leopard.gatech.edu (amir) writes:
>I don't understand the argument here. It seems that Orthodoxy also
>allows patrilineal descent if it comes with public confirmation of
>faith (before beit din, with tevila and mila as appropriate).

This is not patrilineal descent.  This is conversion.  The fact that the
biological father is Jewish does not affect the conversion in any way.
It -might- affect the acceptability of the candidate for conversion,
if he (or she) had grown up among Jews.
---
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: On the SUPERIOR Role of Women
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:28:44 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

Re: 1% of tradition.

Yes, I did read that into your post.  However, looking at the other responses
to that post, so did many others.  Perhaps it was there to be read.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Conservative Halacha (was re: Orthodox Monopoly)
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:36:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.182510.13462@njitgw.njit.edu>
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:

>Yet another reason for non-Jewish wine being non-Kosher is that often,
>non-Kosher ingredients are inserted.  For instance, pig blood is
>added in many Italian wines as a fermenting agent.  It's not on the
>bottle.  How would you know?

Sounds almost like a reverse blood-libel to me.  (Note: I drink so little
wine that it isn't an issue for me; I only drink wine for Kiddush and of
course that means only Kosher wine.)
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:54:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.131011.22432@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <36962@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech
>Borkowski) writes:

>>Poles were the intended victim of the Nazis. What people
>>do say is that Poles were also victims of the Nazis.
>>Approximately 6 million Polish citizens were killed in the war,
>>of whom nearly 3 million were Polish Jews; about 640 000
>>Poles were killed in combat.  
>> During the Holocaust at least 5 800 000 Jews were murdered
>>by the end of 1944 out of European Jewry of 8 700 000
>>under German occupation. Different sources may give somewhat
>>different numbers.

>I don't deny this and I won't dispute the numbers (for the sake of this
>discussion).  However, if you take the 6 million Poles and subtract the

 You are welcome to dispute the numbers. Please do.
Let us at least see what numbers you have. 

>Jews, then the intellectuals, Catholics, Communists, homosexuals, etc
>(i.e. everyone _except_ Poles with no other affiliation), you are left
>with the number of Poles killed simply for being Polish.  From that
>number, though, you should also subtract Poles killed "as a lesson" to
>other Poles for disobeying the Nazi occupyers and for other underground
>activity.  For example, an entire family or more might be shot for one
>person's activity.  This was an almost universal aspect to the German
>occupation (though whether the lesson was applied to only a family or a
>whole neighborhood may have varied across Europe).  What you have left
		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		    it did vary

>is a far truer number of Poles "qua" Poles as victimes.

>I leave the number gathering and crunching to others.
 
 Good point. There were very few "pure Poles". 

 Lech Borkowski
LBS@NEPTUNE.PHYS.UFL.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Subject: Kissing a Mezuzah (Was: Not a Charm?)
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:07:16 GMT


I heard a nice p'shat on the purpose of kissing the Mezuzah this last
weekend from R' Abramov (the husband of Tehilla Abramov, who "The Secret
of Jewish Femininity") in the name of the Rambam.

We read that Moshe Rabbenu wore a mask because of the radiance of his
face.  But when he entered the Ohel Mo'ed (the Tent of Meeting), he
would remove the mask.  Why, becuase Moshe was the most humble of all
men, and when he went out into the world he had to "put up a front" in
order to get the job done.  But, when he entered the Ohel Mo'ed, he
had no need for any facades; he was at home.

So too, we wear many masks when we are out in the world.  But when we
come home, to our real life and world, we should drop the facade and
be ourselves.  Kissing the Mezuzah upon entering gives us a chance to
pause and (should) remind us to drop our mask.  At home rather than
being an Office Manager, Professor, or Business Executive; we should
be a Mensh.



The point was driven home by R' Abramov through the following true
story: 

When a young Yeshivah student in Jerusalem was promoted to the Staff
of the Yeshivah, he decided that in his position it would dishonor the
Torah for him to be seen taking out the garbage.  He therefore
informed his wife that she would now be responsible for schlepping the
garbage down the four flights of stairs during the free time she had
while taking care of a half a dozen small children.  His wife was less
than happy about this and indicated her displeasure to her newly
promoted husband.  After some discussion, they decided to take the
matter to the Rosh Yeshivah (R' Gifter, I believe).  The Rosh Yeshivah
listened to both sides, and then poskened in favor of the young man.
The woman was not happy, but after all, this was the decision of the
Rosh Yeshivah.  So she agreed to abide by his decision and the two of
them went home.

That evening, around 8:00 there was a knock at the door.  The door was
opened and, to the surprise of all, there stood the Rosh Yeshivah.
The young man hurried to invite his Rav in and find out what he had
done to merit such a visit.  The Rosh Yeshivah said, "I am here to
take out the garbage.  As you explained it would be beneath your
dignity, and obviously it is not fitting for your wife to do it."
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in space.
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:22:22 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <4178@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
>In article <1961@ceylon.gte.com> sgutfreund@gte.com writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.144514.25461@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

			......................

>Quoting my cousins (Religious Zionists :-> ):
>They had heard (I cannot remember where from) that the simple answer
>is that there are simply some places where JEWS are just not meant to
>be.

>After all, according to many, if not all, halachic authorities, the
>very fact that mitzvot are kept at all outside the Land of Israel is
>just so that we do not forget them on our Return.  As well as that,
>2/3 of the mitzvot, eg agricultural, can ONLY be kept in the Land of
>Israel.

Many of the agricultural mitzvoth even fell from use after the the 
return.  But it is by no means clear that at least some of the 
agricultural mitzvoth are meant for elsewhere.

If the Religious Zionists want to return Judaism to Israel along, that
is their prerogative.  But the rest of us can really follow the first
commandment in the Torah, and master much more of the universe.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15463 soc.culture.polish:2407
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:58:22 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:

>Do you have statistics indicating "that the individual poles were
>anti-semitic"? I mean, what percentage were so, to what extent, etc.

   I do, or, well, I almost could have. Indeed, statistically, can YOU tell
how many Jewish children that were massacred by Poles during pogroms, or
denied University studies by "non antisemitic" numerus clausus directed
against Jews for clearly non antisemitic reasons (?!?!?!), were born with
the dream to collect these statistics and write the beautiful book you ask
about?

But if you like, as a first rough approximation, I will ask my mother what was
the proportion of non Jewish poles that were throwing stones at her in the
Holy City of Kielce, on her way to school, during  WWI and WWII, after her
father, whose name I carry, had died from typhus in a camp where he had been
jailed as guarantee for the Jews of that Holy City by the non antisemitic
rulers of 1920 Kielce / Poland, when she was just 10 years old.

By the way, when was the last time you were stoned for being, perhaps,
some non Jewish Pole?

Is there any limit to the indecency of deliberately throwing salt on wounds
that will never get dry? What about slecting any other subject? Do you
really believe that a cladding of scientific sounding words makes the
obscene tolerable?

        Yaaqov Yossef grandson of Yaaqov Yossef of Kielce,
        the place of the 1946 pogrom.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15858 comp.text.tex:11186
From: murray@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (murray kahl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,comp.text.tex
Subject: Re: Bidirectional editing for Hebrew/TeX-XeT on the PC? Yes!
Keywords: TeX-XeT TeXXeT Slim Terse editor bidirectional hebrew arabic
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:04:14 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

Yossi, I wish to thank you; it sounds great.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish