HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcook@melkur.dev.cdx.mot.com (Michael Cook)
Subject: Re: redirect STDERR
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:41:41 GMT

christen@cheetah.llnl.gov (Marv Christensen) writes:

>I would like to know how to redirect error messages directed to the
>standand error device. By default, error messages are displayed on the
>screen. I would like to redirect them to /dev/null.

>I'm finding files by name via the find command. The perl looks like:

>open(FIND, "find / -name hello -print |") || die "can't run find:$!\n";

The easiest way is to let the shell do it for you:

  open(FIND, "find / -name hello -print 2>/dev/null |") || die "can't run find:$!\n";

Another way would be to use "-|"

  $kid = open(FIND, "-|");
  $kid eq "" && die "oops: $!";
  unless ($kid)
  {
    open(STDERR, "/dev/null");
    exec "find / -name hello -print";
    die "oops: $!";
  }

You might also want to look at find.pl.

Michael.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: sastr_a@japonica.cs.odu.edu (RAVI AYYALASOMAYAJULA)
Subject: A novice question
Organization: Old Dominion University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:44:54 GMT

	Hi
	
	I wrote a small perl program (which is included below).
	The problem with this program is the "chdir " in the line #4 
	doesn't work. However the chdir in #9 works okay and 
	consequently in each iteration it is going up one level
	in the directory structure and finally to the root. Why is
	that so?

	#!/usr/new/perl

	# all the files in the current directory are directory files
	@DIRS = `ls -1`; 
	$i = 0;
	while($i <= $#DIRS) {

		# this chdir doesn't work
		chdir $DIRS[$i] || die "can't cd to $DIRS[$i] $!\n"; 
		$file = `ls -1`;
		print $file;
		# this chdir works  okay
		chdir '..'; 
		$i++;
	}




	Sorry if this bothers Perl gurus for its downright noviceNess.

	Thanks in advance.

	Ravi.
	(sastr_a@cs.odu.edu)
-- 
*************************************************************
Sastry.A.V.R.R            |
sastr_a@cs.odu.edu	  |  Caffeine, Classical and Computers
sastry@cmns-sun.think.com |          
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Subject: Re: what are the two numbers returned by %name in scalar contex?
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:37:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.215651.5159@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> russell@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell Fulton) writes:
>I am trying to find out the number of items in an associative array.
>My first shot was "$n = %assoc;" this gave a value of 2456/4096. I
>looked through the Camel Book but could find no reference to what the
>numbers meant. I assumed (erroneously) that the first number was the
>number of items in the table the second was the memory allocated for the
>table. I became suspicious of the numbers then switched to using keys()
>to extract a list of keys k and evaluating @k gave quite different and
>more sensible answers.
>Still, I am curious to know what the two numbers represent. The second is
>almost certainly the size of the hash table (since it doubles
>periodically) but the meaning of the first number eludes me.
>Also is there a better way of finding the number of entries in an
>associative array than "@k = keys(%table); $n = @k;" ?

Perl uses a fairly standard link-list per bucket hashing scheme.  If two
keys hash to the same value then they go in the same bucket as a link-list.
The two numbers returned by %foo in a scalar context are
<buckets used>/<buckets available>.  When ever that ratio get above some
threshold (75 % I think) the number of buckets is doubled and the whole
contents of the hash table is rehash.  Larry has instramented the hashing
system and discovered that even when the above ratio approaches 75% less then 
1/16 of the buckets contain more then one element.  Rehashing the entire
table is not as big a job as it sounds because the hashing algorithm has
the property that each item will hash into the same bucket in the new hash
table or the corresponding bucket in the top half of the new table.  I believe
that Larry stores the hash value in each bucket pre modlus so only that part
of the hashing algorithm needs be redone at table expansion time.  Note that
an empty associative array returns "0" not "0/0" so it can be used in a 
conditional.

--
Perl's Maternal Uncle.
Mark Biggar
mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
From: wws@iscp.bellcore.com (Wayne Scott)
Subject: Perl & the new DEC Alpha machines running OSF1
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:01:18 GMT
Keywords: Do I need to wait for a new hint file?



I've successfully installed Perl on an OSF1/mips machine.  But soon my development
environment will be changing underneath me.  We're getting the new DEC Alpha
machines running OSF1.  Question is, do I need to wait for a new hints file before
I can port Perl to that platform?  Or will the OSF1 hints files be sufficient?

I suppose I could just wait for the systems, then try it and see what happens.
But if I need to ask Larry for new files, I'd like to make my request now.

Thanks,
Wayne Scott
From: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: what are the two numbers returned by %name in scalar contex?
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:08:05 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of russell@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell Fulton):
:Also is there a better way of finding the number of entries in an
:associative array than "@k = keys(%table); $n = @k;" ?

    $n++ while each %table;

or in newer patches of perl, simply

    $n = scalar keys %table;

But be careful about generalizing.

    $n = scalar (5,6,7,8);

yields 8, not 4, and 

    $n = scalar (5..8);

is something you're probably not expecting at all, like
whether the current line number is between 5 and 8 inclusive.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist
        if (tmpstab == envstab)         /* heavy wizardry going on here */
            str_magic(str, tmpstab, 'E', tmps, anum);   /* str is now magic */
                                    /* he threw the brick up into the air */
Xref: sparky comp.lang.perl:6255 comp.sources.d:1307
From: joel@abigale.UUCP (Joel Rosi-Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: Perl and sco unix (??)
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:09:32 GMT
Organization: Techne Research, Finchampstead, Berkshire (UK)

In article <1992Oct2.195625.16932@eci386.uucp> rstory@Elegant.COM (Robert Story) writes:
>I have attempted, with no success, to make make perl on a sco unix 3.2.2 
>system.  At present perl core dumps on installation.  'make test' turns
>up the attached errors. 
>
 [ stuff deleted ]

>Would someone with a similar system please e-mail me a copy of their 
>config.sh.  Thanks.

Yey, I will be happy to, but mine was build with gcc 2.2.2, so may not do
you much good.

More to the general point is that I have had a well running perl on SCO
form PL19...PL35 and would be happy to any or all if the following.

	a.  If any one snet me disks or a tape, or was will to reimburse
        for the them, I would be happy to "distribute" SCO perl.
		This will take one 1.4Meg disk for binaries and a 2 more
		if you desire all the soucre also.

	b.  If someone has an ftp archive site I could up-load this to,
		please let me know where and how.  I am not directly on ftp.
		I use the good graces of my wifes physics department at the
		U. of Reading (UK), so I can not act as an accassible archive.

	c.  As a special inducement for ordering your copy _today_ I will
		throw in, for just the cost of reproduction, a copy of the
		perl manual done in TeX and spiral bound.  This document is
		a bit behind at PL19, but still quite useful and pretty.
        If anyone is interested I  will check the printing/binding
		costs and let you know, but I would guess to to be about
		10 Pounds.

		The TeX'ing is the fine work of:

		GNU Texinfo version adapted by Jeff Kellem
		<composer@@Beyond.Dreams.ORG>.
		Copyright 1989, 1990, 1991 Larry Wall
		Texinfo version Copyright 1990, 1991 Jeff Kellem
		Perl Manual (Texinfo version)
		For perl version 4.0 patchlevel 19
		Edition 0.5, dated 04 December 1991
		Texinfo version by Jeff Kellem <composer@@Beyond.Dreams.ORG>

Cheers,
Joel
-- 
     ==================================================================
     ||               T E C H N E   R E S E A R C H                  ||
     ||  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++  ||
     ||                     Joel Rosi-Schwartz                       ||
     ||   Hildorien House            +   Email: joel@abigale.UUCP    ||
     ||   12 Waverley Way            +    (pyrltd!abigale.UUCP!joel) ||
     ||   Finchampstead, Wokingham   +   Phone: +44 (734) 730.260    ||
     ||   Berkshire RG11 4YD (UK)    +   Fax:   +44 (734) 730.272    ||
     ==================================================================
From: cjross@testament.bbn.com (Chris Ross)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Unusual scalar() behavior
Date: 29 Sep 1992 06:43:58 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: cjross@bbn.com (Chris Ross)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


Here's one that has me puzzled:

	% perl -le "print scalar ('x', 'x', 'x')"
	x

OK, makes sense.  But:

	% perl -le "print scalar (('x') x 3)"
	xxx

Apparently, scalar() is being applied to ('x') before the replication
occurs.  Or is ('x') in this case just a parenthesized scalar and not
a list?


chris ross   <cjross@bbn.com>   BBN Advanced Simulations   (617) 873-3272
 WARNING: article may contain flammable material.  Do not expose to open
   flames.  In case of accidental ignition, douse keyboard with water.
From: ghazi@caip.rutgers.edu (Kaveh R. Ghazi)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: need help building pl35 on AUX 3.0
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:16:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Cc: ghazi

In your config.sh try setting:

cppstdin=/lib/cpp
d_ndbm='undef'

	Alternatively, your could #undef HAS_NDBM in perl.h.  (Look for
the #if defined(mc300) for an example.)

	The failure of cppstdin="cc -E" and broken ndbm implementations are
the two things which have given me the most problems.

		--Kaveh
-- 
Kaveh R. Ghazi			CAIP Center, Rutgers University.
ghazi@caip.rutgers.edu		rutgers!caip.rutgers.edu!ghazi
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: SAS compared to Perl
Date: 26 Sep 1992 14:40:08 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

i goofed on the xgobi cite. it's on the site
	lib.stat.cmu.edu
log in as
	statlib
but otherwise it's an ordinary ftp site (leave your email address as login)

there's bunches of stats stuff there

  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 4562
From: hdnea@usho0e.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: math functions
Date: 29 Sep 92 06:27:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Chevron


Atan2 is included in perl but asin is not?


What am I missing?  Did I do something really stupid (configuring
perl, that is)?



-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 
Conserve water, California's deserts need more cotton farms.
Barbie says, Take quaaludes in gin and go to a disco right away!
 But Ken says, WOO-WOO!!  No credit at ``Mr. Liquor''!!
From: rickers@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Rick Wargo)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Need help with a crazy perl 4.035 problem. Unrecognized character ..
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:27:21 GMT
Organization: Drexel University, ECE Department, Philadelphia, PA


Here a problem which I cannot figure out.  I am hoping some bright soul may have
a clue because I don't yet have enough money saved for this one.

The real problem is that I am writing a huge perl program.  Unfortunately, every
now and then I get the weirdest errors when I add a few lines of correct code.

I get 74 lines of these messages when I step over a certain line:
Unrecognized character \010 ignored at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 1, <TABLE> line 1.
Unrecognized character \210 ignored at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 1, <TABLE> line 1.
Unrecognized character \001 ignored at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 1, <TABLE> line 1.
Unrecognized character \001 ignored at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 1, <TABLE> line 1.
Unrecognized character \005 ignored at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 1, <TABLE> line 1.

I am not using any of the routines in /usr/local/lib/perl (at least I don't think so).
<TABLE> is in the main code like this:

	open(TABLE, "<$file");

		while (<TABLE>) {
			chop;
			...
			sub Problem_Routine;
			...
		}

	close(TABLE);

I have managed to find the line which generates the messages:

Relevant Code:
$Info_Level = 2;

sub Problem_Routine {
	...

	$#e -= $n;			# Temporarily shorten the array.
	$entity_d[$e[$Entity_Key]] = join('|', @e);
	$#e += $n;			# Resize the array.

	&Print_Entity(*e) if ( $Info_Level >= 4 ) ;    <<<**** This is the culprit!
}

I am using perl 4.035 on a Sun4m/690 with the standard configuration for this machine.

What am I doing wrong???
This problem is driving me crazy!  I looked at the source, but this problem seems to be
in toke.c:yylex() (ack ;-) and I can't afford the time to understand the routine to try
to fix it myself.

I would appreciate any help anyone could offer.

Thanks in advance.
Rick
-- 
Rick Wargo        e-mail: rickers@CoE.Drexel.EDU

L
LMMM                           Law Manager, Inc.
LMMM         legal office automation specialists
------------------------------------------------
80 west georgianna drive  *  richboro, pa  18954

                                   Richard Wargo
                               Software Engineer
                             tel: (215) 895-1225
                             fax: (215) 895-1690
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: mcook@fendahl.dev.cdx.mot.com (Michael Cook)
Subject: Re: What is a true value ?
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:11:15 GMT

tardieu@hydre.enst.fr (Samuel Tardieu) writes:

>When compiling a perl script which includes the following line:
>require 'get.pl';
>I obtain the error message from perl:
>get.pl did not return a true value at autoget line 6.

>In get.pl, there is:
>sub main'getfile {
>    open(ftp,"| $FTP -n -i $adr > /dev/null") || return;
>    print ftp "user anonymous `$WHOAMI`.$DOMAIN\n";
>    print ftp "bin\n";
>    print ftp "cd $locat\n";
>    print ftp "get $nom\n";
>    print ftp "bye\n";
>    close(ftp);
>    }

You need to put

    1;

at the end to tell Perl that the 'require' succeeded.

>Tanks for all answers.

Make mine a Sherman. :-)

Michael.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: sandyb@world.std.com (Sandy Bendremer)
Subject: Strategy for Simple Database ???
Summary: Need a Strategy for a simple perl database.
Keywords: perl, database
Organization: AnyWare Associates -- Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:39:41 GMT

Someone please give me a clue (as it seems I don't have one!)

I am trying to construct a very simple tabular database much like Job's 
described in Chapt 2 of the "camel book."

It's no problem to read this thing and generate all sorts of spiffy reports, 
but what is the best way to update a record with a new value.  For example:

I want to search for sheep;
Get the nose count and number of servants;
Change the number of servants based on the nose count;

In my "ugly" way, I have to create an intermediate file each time I change 
something.  Is there a better way??

Thanks to all....

Sandy Bendremer
sandyb@world.std.com

Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: mah@parrot.prv.univie.ac.at (Michael Haberler)
Subject: POP3 server in perl?
Reply-To: mah@ic.co.at
Organization: Vienna University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:32:48 GMT


Anybody got such an animal?

-michael

-- 
Michael Haberler 			mah@eunet.co.at
EUnet Austria Ltd
A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Schottenring 33
Tel: +43 (1) 346184                             fax: +43 (1) 3104462
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl,gnu.emacs.sources
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: Perl, Emacs, and she-bang line.
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:06:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.215458.26601@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> peta@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Peter Whaite) writes:
>Or you can use as the first line
>
>	#!/usr/bin/perl -- # -*- Perl -*-

Is this supposed to work in general?  I couldn't find any reference to
"--" in the Camel book, and I just (today!) has an odd problem with this
usage.  Specifically, a script I wrote that had that identical line as
its first line crapped out with "while: expression syntax".  Once I removed
everything after the "#!/usr/bin/perl" it worked.  I had a hell of a time
figuring out what was going on, too... it really bothered me when the
thing ran just fine under the perl debugger and died when I ran it from
the shell.  Finally realized what was going on when I tried running it
with other perl options by typing "perl -w myscript" and it always worked.

--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: mcook@fendahl.dev.cdx.mot.com (Michael Cook)
Subject: Re: formatted read (beginner's question)
Keywords: read
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:06:33 GMT

joel@abigale.uucp (Joel Rosi-Schwartz) writes:

>First of all you could just do:

>	$num = <>;
>or
>	$num = <STDIN>;

>These are the same and [...]

Not exactly.  <> is tied to @ARGV.  If @ARGV!=0||$ARGV[0]ne'-', then <> is
*not* the same as <STDIN>.

Michael.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: briant@teleride.on.ca (Brian Taylor)
Subject: Build under RISCos 5.0B: Help!
Summary: Need help porting to RISCos 5.0B.
Keywords: port RISCos mips
Reply-To: brian@dweomer.org
Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:12:37 GMT

I just recently purchased a MIPS Magnum 4000-PC50 running RISCos 5.0B and
blissfully tried to get Perl to build under it. The problem seems to be
that Configure doesn't like the library (libc.so NOR libc.a) lister 'nm', and
a few other less annoying things.

Before I rush off and reinvent the wheel, I thought I'd petition here to see
if anyone else has travelled down this road and could offer any help/pointers/
suggestions.

Thank you kindly,

Brian
-- 
Brian Taylor					{uunet.ca,itcyyz}!tsltor!briant
UNIX Systems Administrator			brian.taylor@teleride.on.ca
Teleride Sage Ltd.	Toronto, Ontario	(416) 596-1940
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: Examples of chat2'expect - Randal?
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:53:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: romulus.MERLYN.92Sep30085308
Distribution: comp
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA

In article <BUZZ.92Sep29193200@toxicavenger.bear.com> buzz@toxicavenger.bear.com (Buzz Moschetti) writes:

$FTP = &chat'open_proc("ftp bom.bay.india.edu");
	   send string to ftp;

&chat'print($FTP,"string\n");
	   expect two, perhaps three patterns;
$result = &chat'expect($FTP,30,"pat1",1,"pat2",2,"pat3",3);
	   if we have an error pattern match
		   exit;
die "no such luck" unless defined $result;
	   no error; send another string;
&chat'print($FTP,"another string\n");
	   expect more patterns;
$result = &chat'expect($FTP,30,"pat4",1,"pat5",2,"pat6",3);
	   if we have an error pattern match
		   exit;
die "nope, no such luck" unless (defined $result) && $result != 2;
	   no error; send yet another string;
&chat'print($FTP,"yet another string\n");


See, it's pretty much as your pseudocode has written it.  Surely the
patterns are probably the trickest to come up with... you need to
think about all the possible ways that FTP will say something.

That's why open_port was written before open_proc... I wrote an FTP
client that does the tcp/ip directly, rather than invoke the local FTP
client, because the FTP protocol is RFC-defined.

require"chat2.pl";&chat'open_proc("echo Just another Perl hacker,");print &chat'expect(0,'\n','$`')
--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@reed.edu (guest account) merlyn@ora.com (better for permanent record)
cute quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon -- home of the California Raisins!"
From: hermit@dastari.uucp (Mark Buda)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: Perl Tutorial Book (was Re: SED GURUS: Some Newline Questions)
Date: 25 Sep 92 19:36:40 GMT
	<1992Sep21.171833.5773@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com>
	<1992Sep21.195141.22000@meiko.com>
	<STDKAP1.92Sep21165255@icarus.spc.uchicago.edu>
Reply-To: hermit%dastari.uucp@devon.lns.pa.us
Organization: Avalon Computing

In article <STDKAP1.92Sep21165255@icarus.spc.uchicago.edu> stdkap1@icarus.spc.uchicago.edu (Dietrich Kappe) writes:
>[Big discussion of pros/cons of Camel Book, perl man page deleted]
>
>You might also try the perl texinfo document. The printed form is nicer,
>and the info file provides some hypertextual qualities (under emacs
>info-mode) as well as a concept index, a function index, and a command
>summary. Of course you can just regexp search through the whole darn
>thing (but I never do that :-).

And if you stick this in your .emacs file, you can look up (almost)
any perl function by pressing C-h p and the name of the function.

-- cut here --
; Bind perl-lookup to C-h p
(define-key help-map "p" 'perl-lookup)

(defvar perl-info-file-name "perl.info"
  "Name of the info file where the Perl manual lives.")

(require 'info)

(defun perl-lookup (command)
  (interactive "sPerl command: ")
  (if (get-buffer "*info*")
      (pop-to-buffer "*info*" nil))
  (Info-goto-node (concat "(" perl-info-file-name ")Function Index"))
  (Info-menu command)
  (re-search-forward (concat "^" (regexp-quote command)))
  (beginning-of-line)
  (recenter 0))
--
Mark Buda

I get my monkeys for nothing and my chimps for free.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
From: rantinoj@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: my perl-script eats '%'-characters
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 14:56:00 GMT

This may be a novice question, but I can't understand why my perl script eats 
'%' -characters.
---------------------- test.pl ----------------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/perl
$[ = 1;         # set array base to 1
$, = ' ';       # set output field separator
$\ = "";        # set output record separator
open ( OUTFILE, ">test.out" );
while ( <> ) {
	printf OUTFILE $_;
}
printf stderr "Done !\n";
------------------------- test.in ---------------------------
%!PS-Adobe-1.0
%%Creator: dlf, by XXX ()
%%Title: Graphical output
%%CreationDate: 1992-09-18 08:49:08
------------------------- test.out --------------------------
!PS-Adobe-1.0
%Creator: dlf, by XXX ()
%Title: Graphical output
%CreationDate: 1992-09-18 08:49:08
-------------------------------------------------------------

Could someone please explain how to get around this?
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl