HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djh@siesoft.co.uk (Duncan Head)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: help with latin phrase
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:26:01 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

david.meadows@canrem.com (david meadows) writes:
:   >:
:   >: DH>       "soliti vestem excipere regalem"
: 
: In hindsight, I think you are more correct than I when you suggest 
: that the Doryphoroi `escorted the baggage-wagons' ... one sense of 
: excipere is, of course, to follow after or succeed. In this case, the 
: Doryphoroi, who were accustomed to follow after the baggage train were 
: given the [rather incongruent] honour of being in line immediately 
: before the great king himself.  I still think, however, that they are 
: little more than gaudily-attired, well-armed butlers or valets. In any 
: event, I think it unlikely that they were allowed to wear the royal 
: dress themselves ... the elite troop of the Persians were the 
: `Immortals' and I doubt they would allow another group to be dressed 
: better than they; much less would a Darius let commoners wear his 
: clothing.
: 
:                David Meadows

  Ah, no. The spear-bearers are definitely of _higher_ status than
  the Immortals; on one interpretation (going back to a fragment of 
  Herakleides, I think) the spear-bearers are in fact the elite 
  "thousand" of the ten thousand Immortals; Herodotus seems to
  imply that they are separate from the Immortals, but march in
  closer attendance on the King and are clearly of higher status.
  They are also, it seems, Persians of noble rank - "all men of
  the best and noblest Persian blood", in Herodotus Book VII
  somewhere, at the point Xerxes is crossing the Hellespont.

  I _don't_ think that, in reality, the spear-bearers were mere
  gaudily-uniformed valets; it is possible, though, that Curtius,
  in the fine old Graeco-Roman tradition of denigrating the 
  effeminate Asiatic, might wish to imply that they were. To that
  extent, the question of what Curtius is trying to say is
  independent of the real status of the Persian spear-bearers -
  though I'm interested in both!

  Duncan Head
  djh@siesoft.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Help with Latin phrase
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Keywords: quintus curtius rufus
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 19:24:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.193349.8911@siesoft.co.uk>, djh@siesoft (Duncan Head) writes:

>I wonder if anyone reading this group can give me some ideas on the likely
>meaning of a brief Latin phrase?
>
>It's from Quintus Curtius Rufus, _History of Alexander_, 3.3.15; and describes
>the "spear-bearer" guards infantry regiment of Darius III, the last Persian
>king.  The text says:
>
>     "soliti vestem excipere regalem"
>
>-  the subject being, I believe, the spear-bearers.
>
>Now the Penguin translation renders this as "who usually looked after the
>King's wardrobe".  But another book I read recently quotes the phrase, and
>translates it as "who alone were allowed to wear the royal dress".
>Unfortunately I don't have a text, so I can't quote any more of the sentence -
>I hope it's not relevant.
>
>I assume "soliti" to be a participle from "soleo", to be accustomed; but it
>looks as if my second translator is assuming it's something to do with
>"solus", alone.  This point is minor; it's the verb that's giving me trouble.
>
>The lexicon I consulted gives several meanings for "excipio" - to take or draw
>out, hence to make an exception of or to state expressly; to take to one's
>self, capture, take or receive; to follow after, succeed.  But none of these
>look _particularly_ appropriate for _either_ of the translations I've quoted!
>
>Can anyone, therefore, suggest which translation is preferrable - or come up
>with another one?

One meaning of "excipio" is "to reserve."  In accordance with Xenophon's
description of the special dress of the Persian troops--that only they were
allowed to wear the vestments of the royal household--I would say that the
Penguin translation misses the mark big-time.

But that's just my opinion.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: Help with Latin phrase
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Reply-To: alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Stanford University Academic Information Resources
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 16:47:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.205049.28205@shearson.com>, brekshyn@shearson (Bohdan Rekshynskyj) writes:
>Salve,
>
>   This probably has no bearing in prose composition but the "ere" ending is
>sometimes third person plural (I think) ending, mainly used in poetry.
>So, excipere could be third person plural past tense (I don't have my
>Latin grammar here - but isn't the 1st person past "excepi"?  If so,
>this probably blows holes in my two cents worth, chuckle!)
>
>					Bohdan(vs)

"excipere" is the infinitive, "excepere" (if it occurs) would be the alternate
form of the 3rd pl. act. ind. pf.  "excepi" is indeed 1st sg. act. ind. pf.
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: andrews@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Avery Andrews)
Subject: Re: Authoress of Odyssey
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:45:33 GMT

 In article  <1dluvnINNqu5@agate.berkeley.edu>
  lizi@hermes.berkeley.edu (Cosma Shalizi) writes

  >   Actually, Lucian says someplace that Homer was a Hellenized oriental like
  >himself, though not, as I recall, Phoenician. And there would have been a
  >good reason for her to invent vowels: How else do you record the meter?
  >Feh. I like this story better than Graves' :).

Sadly for my fantasy, Powell says that the deviser couldn't have been
(linguistically) semitic because of the way (s)he munged the sibilants,
& also winds up making a bit of a case that it was Palamedes (whence
the assumption of maleness, presumably).  But the meter is one of his
arguments:  a consonantal system could probably have been made to work
for commercial purposes, but not for poetry in an artificial language,
especially one with words like `e:eroeidea'.

What strikes me as most remarkable about the whole business was how much
money must have been spent on it, given what I think I recall reading
about the price of writing materials in this group a while ago. 


Avery.Andrews@anu.edu.au
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Classical heroes in Ancient Greece
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:08:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

adjg@sour.sw.oz.au (Andrew Gollan) writes:
> yunus@loro-next.Stanford.EDU (Jonas Sami Celebiler) writes:
> 
> |The Oddysey was one of the primary texts of Greek education in the  
> |classical age.  What values did it teach through the character of the hero  
> |Odysseus?  Are these the same values represented in the tragedies of  
> |Sophocles and Euripides?  Are there characters in these plays whom you  
> |would consider comparable to, even if different than, Odysseus?
> 
> Is this an essay topic?

Sounds like it.

	Larry "TOO much like it" Hammer
--

                         \                     Time ...
LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \   Worships language and forgives
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \  Everyone by whom it lives   -- Auden
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Subject: help with latin phrase
Reply-To: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:58:58 EST

DH>david.meadows@canrem.com (david meadows) writes, in answer
  >to a query of mine:
  >: DH>  It's from Quintus Curtius Rufus, _History of Alexander_, 3.3.15;
  >:   >  and describes the "spear-bearer" guards infantry regiment of
  >:   >  Darius III, the last Persian king.  The text says:
  >:
  >: DH>       "soliti vestem excipere regalem"
  >:
  >: DH>  -  the subject being, I believe, the spear-bearers.
...

DH>: I would trust the Penguin translation ... Yardley definitely knows his
  >: stuff. Excipere is being used here in the sense `to take or draw out';
  >: that is, Darius had these spear-bearers who would set out his clothes
  >: for him and in the context which Curtius is writing, it is just
  >: another example of the Persian's warped priorities (in Greek eyes) that
  >: those who occupy the position of honor in his procession are little
  >: more than armed butlers.

...

DH>Thanks, David; that's an interesting interpretation. I had been
  >thinking of "looked after his wardrobe" in the sense of "escorted
  >the baggage-wagons containing the King's personal possessions",
  >rather than "pressed the King's trousers and handed him his cravat".
  >The "spear-bearers" were one thousand strong; would Curtius (or his
  >source) go so far as to imply _that_ many valets? On the other hand,
  >I don't think Curtius actually _mentions_ their strength, so maybe
  >he _is_ just implying they're butlers.


In hindsight, I think you are more correct than I when you suggest 
that the Doryphoroi `escorted the baggage-wagons' ... one sense of 
excipere is, of course, to follow after or succeed. In this case, the 
Doryphoroi, who were accustomed to follow after the baggage train were 
given the [rather incongruent] honour of being in line immediately 
before the great king himself.  I still think, however, that they are 
little more than gaudily-attired, well-armed butlers or valets. In any 
event, I think it unlikely that they were allowed to wear the royal 
dress themselves ... the elite troop of the Persians were the 
`Immortals' and I doubt they would allow another group to be dressed 
better than they; much less would a Darius let commoners wear his 
clothing.

               David Meadows
---
  1st 1.00 #813  1st does more by 9:00am than other readers do all day
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.classics,alt.mythology
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Robert Graves-- transcendent genius or raving loon?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 00:17:27 GMT

brentw@coopsol.com (Brent Williams) writes:
>Author's name is Edith Hamilton.  Title of the standard book is, simply,
>"Mythology."  As you suggested, her book is basically just a straightforward
>presentation of the pantheon, without interpretation, fancy, etc.
>I only have an old paperback of this which is at home right now, so I don't
>have publisher information.  My recollection is that her work was done in 
>the 1940's, but it should still be in print as it's considered a pretty
>standard work in the field.

I just bought it last year, so it's still out there.  Bullfinch's is
good, too, if you get one of the recent versions with updated
surrounding comments.
-- 
Troubled day for beautiful wealthy virgins over 16 living in eucalyptus trees.
Newsgroups: sci.classics
From: brekshyn@shearson.com (Bohdan Rekshynskyj)
Subject: Re: Weekdays in Latin?
Reply-To: brekshyn@shearson.com
Organization: Ordinatio
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:42:27 GMT


Salve!

   Actually another way of displaying the days would be using the "IDES, NONES, & KALENDS" system.
Eg, today, November 10th is  "Hodie est a.d. IV Idus Novembres".  The case endings are probably wrong
and should be ablative (of time), but I haven't had a realiable text to search for it (I've written
a program which displays the date in Latin everytime I logon).  Oh, the a.d. is "ante diem".

							Vale!

							Bohdan(vs)


=====================================================================
 
Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj
 
Consultant                     
 
Compuserve:  72576.1754@compuserve.com


                              
All promulgations are my own.  No corporate entity has authorization
to represent me.
 
Imprimatur.						Nihil obstat.
 
=====================================================================
From: djh@siesoft.co.uk (Duncan Head)
Newsgroups: sci.classics
Subject: Re: Help with Latin phrase
Date: 12 Nov 92 11:34:21 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

alderson@elaine46.Stanford.EDU (Rich Alderson) writes, in response 
to  my query:
: In article <1992Nov3.193349.8911@siesoft.co.uk>, djh@siesoft (Duncan Head) writes:
: 
: >I wonder if anyone reading this group can give me some ideas on the likely
: >meaning of a brief Latin phrase?
: >
: >It's from Quintus Curtius Rufus, _History of Alexander_, 3.3.15; and describes
: >the "spear-bearer" guards infantry regiment of Darius III, the last Persian
: >king.  The text says:
: >
: >     "soliti vestem excipere regalem"
: >
: >-  the subject being, I believe, the spear-bearers.
: >
: >Now the Penguin translation renders this as "who usually looked after the
: >King's wardrobe".  But another book I read recently quotes the phrase, and
: >translates it as "who alone were allowed to wear the royal dress".
: >Unfortunately I don't have a text, so I can't quote any more of the sentence -
: 
: One meaning of "excipio" is "to reserve."  In accordance with Xenophon's
: description of the special dress of the Persian troops--that only they were
: allowed to wear the vestments of the royal household--I would say that the
: Penguin translation misses the mark big-time.
: 
: But that's just my opinion.
: -- 
: Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
:                 such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
  Thanks, an interesting response - and one quite different from the other
  suggestion I received, from David Meadows! "Excipio" as "reserve" would
  account for "who _alone_ were allowed..." in my second translation,
  without the necessity to assume the translator had muddle up the
  meaning of "soliti", which I had suspected.

  But does Xenophon _really_ talk about Persian troops being allowed
  to wear the dress of the royal household? He does talk (Cyropaedia
  VIII.iii.3) about Persian issue of costume, but not specifically
  royal clothing; and in VIII.iii.13 about royal kinsmen (which 
  could, indeed, include household guards regiments) wearing the 
  royal diadem; but I'm not aware of a passage with _exactly_ the
  sense you suggest.

  Many thanks,

  Duncan Head
  djh@siesoft.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Pig Poo a Prime Power Provider?
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:16:21 GMT

From the Murkey News for Friday Nov. 6th.  Front page of the business
section, page 1F:

*** BEGIN QUOTED MATERIAL, quoted without permission ***

Tulare farmer has the poop on pig power in Poland

Knight-Ridder News Service

Can pig poop power Poland?

A Tulare hog farmer hopes so.

Roy Sharpe, owner of Royal Farms, has teamed up with a Polish waste
management cooperative called SETO in a joint venture to market his
pig manure power-plant design to companies an municipalities in Poland
and elsewhere in Eastern Europe.

"There's a big market for this anyplace where there's a problem with
polution and energy," said Sharp.

Getting energy from manure is not a new idea.  Sharpe, however, said
he has improved on the methodology, making the process more cost-effective.

"With our system, you get a payback on your investment in about five years,"
Sharp said.

Sharp has been using the system on his 12,000 pig farm since 1982.  It 
uses methane gas given off from the namure to fuel generators.  The 
manure is flushed with water from the barns to a one-acre holding
lagoon.  Specialized bacteria within the lagoon break down the manure,
producing carbon dioxide and methane.

A mechanical collector floats on the surface, gathering the gas and
channeling it to specialized electric generators.  The process also
cleans the water used to flush out the manure.

Sharp's system differs from other in the type of bacteria it uses
and the way it uses gravity to flush manure into the lagoon.

Sharp estimated it takes $280,000 to set up a system to support 
a 100-kilowatt plant.  He and his partners are trying to set up
financing plans with international agencies for potential buyers.

*** END QUOTED MATERIAL ***

Hmmm.  That's about $2800/kw if I moved the decimal place right...
Isn't $2k/kw more like the typical cost of low fuel cost plants?

Then again, he is also getting rid of a disposal problem as well...

The statement about a differnt 'type of bacteria' is interesting.
Wonder what it is.  

I find it hard to imagine what he is doing with gravity that
is so unique... water has always tended to run down hill... ;-)

Anyway, there you have it.  Approximate capital cost for a 
pig poo power plant plan presented per published periodical. 8-)


-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment
From: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 

TGE>Only the government has the perspective to view the entire
TGE>picture, and develop reasonable environmental industrial
TGE>policy, in this case subsidizing atmospherically clean
TGE>nuclear power (I won't say totally clean, but I rather have
TGE>a little bit of buried waste than an entire planet of
TGE>unihabitable atmopsphere).

Yes, but nuclear is not the cleanest and not the least expensive. Wind
and solar are cleaner and now wind power is less expensive.

hhs
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader!
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Where to get Electric Car kits?
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:01:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Nov9.180150.3123
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Nov5.200422.5865@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>
>Let's see ... 100 mile range, 35 cycles, ... yup, sounds like he used
>automotive batteries.  They would be dead meat after 35 deep cycles.
>
>Ni-Cds should be good for 1000 cycles, or 100,000 miles, if handled
>well.  Deepcycle cart batteries (NOT RV batteries) should be somewhere
>in between the two ... figure about 30,000 miles.  Or three years at
>my present rate of usage for the Honda (about 10-12k miles/yr).
>
>I'm willing to buy a set of 'golfcart' batteries and replace them in
>the year 1996 with Ni-hydrides ...  Then again, my Honda may not have
>it's IC engine die until 1996 ...  At 230k miles on the odometer, it
>still doesn't use oil between oil changes and has no detectable problems.
>Maybe I'll buy a junker ;-)

Ok, we went around this barn a few months ago. To get a 100 mile range
at the speed limit on level ground, you're going to need about 20 kWh
of stored battery power. According to the Bosch Automotive Handbook,
lead acid traction batteries run about 25 Wh/kg, so you'll need about
800 kg of batteries (1760 pounds) to hold the power. Can your Honda
stand that much extra weight? That's nearly double it's unladen weight,
which will, of course, *reduce it's range*. Ouch, it's a vicious circle.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: "barry ross" <barry.ross@canrem.com>
Subject: california gas pumps
Reply-To: "barry ross" <barry.ross@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:12:33 EST


MW>The usual method is by adding methanol.  Of course burning methanol produces
MW>other pollutants, most worse than the carbon monoxide you are getting rid
MW>of, but who cares about ecology when there are political points to be made.

Mark,

An article in Scientific American in recent years does not  agree 
with   this  comment  of  "Of course  burning  methanol  produces  
pollutants, much worse than the carbon monoxide"

The  article  was  talking about burning  pure  methanol,   which 
produced one third the pollutants compared to gasoline.  So in  a 
mixed  situation (gasoline and methyl alcohol) you may  still  be 
correct.
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #10554  I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: akerson@deimos.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp)
Subject: Re: Greenazis, GreenPeace (non-energy topic)
Organization: Arinc Research Corp.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 20:11:03 GMT


Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu> states :

>> Consider these facts about Greenpeace:
>> 1) They are founded on and operate under the Quaker
>>  principle of "speaking truth to power."  All their
>>  actions are nonviolent.

  I foolishly sent Greenpeace some money a few years ago ($60).
After a few months I was recieving a large steady stream
of letters asking for more money. In one 6-month period I recieved
so much mail from them that the postage alone was over $10.
I still get some of this junk.

GreenPeace must be a front for either a publishing house or the Post Office.