From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: JESUS HAS DIED - The Quran - Part II.
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:51:41 GMT

In <9301100657.AA15726@ccu.UManitoba.CA> Tahir Ijaz <ijaz@ccu.UManitoba.CA> writes:


" Part II:                      PROPHET JESUS HAS DIED:  THE QURAN
" ****************************************************************




" 1)  The notion that Jesus floated into the sky towards God is  an
" Un-Quranic  concept.  Before going into the specific verses which
" refute this popular belief, it should be noted that Heaven  is  a
" spiritual  state  which  our souls experience AFTER death.  It is
" not a physical location beyond  the  stratosphere.   By  climbing
" Mount Everest, we do not come closer to God!

   Nice for shooting bull, but how can you prove it?

" 2)  Humans, according to the Quran, must live and die in the phy-
" sical universe.

" "And for you there is an abode on the earth and a provision for a
" time,  He  said, therein shall you live and therein shall you die
" and therefrom shall you be brought forth ( 7:25-6)."

   But do not miracles refute that God made specific physical rules
and phenomena?

" "Have we not made the earth so as to hold the living and the dead
" (77:26-7)"

" On one occasion the enemies of the Holy  Prophet  Muhammad  chal-
" lenged him that they will not believe in him unless he "ascend up
" into heaven" and "send down to us a Book (17:93)."   The  Prophet
" replied:  "Holy is my Lord! I am but a mortal sent as a messenger
" (17:93)."

" Thus the Prophets, like all humans, lived and died on the  earth.
" If Jesus is alive today, he must be more than a mortal.

   I did not know we are beyond the Judgement Day (in interpretations
by NonBahais, that is.)

" IF ANY HUMAN BEING WAS ABLE TO GO TO  HEAVEN  WITH  HIS  PHYSICAL
" BODY  THEN  IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUR BELOVED HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD,
" THE GREATEST OF ALL PROPHETS.  But the verses above indicate that
" since he is but a man, it is not possible.

   Too nice, but 1. Who told you he did not? 2. How can you prove it
in the first place (your daring statement?)

" 3)  "I will cause you to die"

" An important verse is the following:

" "When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you to die and will raise
" you  to  myself, and will clear thee of those who disbelieve, and
" will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve,  un-
" til  the Day of Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return and
" I will judge between  you  concerning  that  wherein  you  differ
" (3:56)."

" The verse clearly indicates that Jesus was to die a natural death
" and  then  only  would he be raised to Allah.  The verse does not
" say that Jesus will be raised first then will die.

   Is not this also contradictory to your beliefs, Jesus, this way,
died and was ascended to God, which usually does not happen to
anyone, or does it? If it does, please confirm with evidence.

" An important word used in the Quran is  mutawaffi,  derived  from
" tawaffa.  When  God  is  the  subject  and a human is the object,
" tawaffa means to take away the soul, i.e, death.

   That is one meaning.

" Zamakhshari (467-538 A.H), an Arab linguist of great repute says,
" "Mutawaffika  means,  I will protect you from being killed by the
" people and will grant you full lease of life  ordained  for  you,
" and  will  cause  you  to  die  a  natural death not being killed
" (Kashshaf)." Scholars and commentators  like  Hazrat  Ibn  Abbas,
" Imam  Malik,  Imam Bukhari, Imam ibn Hazm, Imam ibn Qayyin, Qata-
" dah, Wahhab and others are of the same view.

" Note that the same word Tawaffa, has been used in other places in
" the  Quran to indicate death.  For example, 2:235:  "and those of
" you who die (yatawaffou-na) and leave wives behind,  these  wives
" shall wait concerning themselves for four months and ten days."

" Another important word is rafaa, which means raising,  elevating,
" lifting, exaltation, honor.  When the rafaa of a man is spoken of
" as being towards  Allah,  the  meaning  is  invariably  spiritual
" elevation  and  exaltation. For example the Quran says about Pro-
" phet Enoch:  "We exalted him to a lofty station (19:58)."

   How did you know it was Enoch? Why is this special for two
prophets, assuming the meaning is the same?

" A commentary of the Quran by Ibn Khatib ("modern"  Egyptian  Com-
" mentary)  summarizes:   "And those who assert that Jesus is dead,
" point to the word of the exalted God:   every  soul  shall  taste
" death, and Jesus, peace be upon him belonged to the human species
" for which death is ordained.  Some  people  presume  that  he  is
" dead,  and  lies buried in a locality which they mention by name,
" and may be it is India, and God - may He be exalted - knows  best
" what He has said and done."

   A new source for Islam? Oh, la la!

" 4)  The Crucifixion

" The verse that refers to the crucifixion is 4:158,159:

" "And for their saying, We did slay  the  Messiah,  Jesus,  son of
" Mary, the Messenger of Allah;  whereas they slew him not, nor did
" they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to ap-
" pear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are
" certainly in a state of doubt about  it;  they  have  no  certain
" knowledge thereof, but pursue only a conjecture; and they did not
" arrive at a certainty concerning it. On the contrary,  Allah  ex-
" alted him to himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise."

" The argument of the Jews was  that  because  Jesus  died  on  the
" cross,  considered  an accursed death according to the law of the
" Torah, Jesus could not be a true prophet. The Quran  rejects  the
" slaying of Jesus in any form, including killing by nailing to the
" cross.  Nothing in the verse suggests Jesus was NOT nailed to the
" cross: the verse only denies DEATH by nailing to the cross.

   NOT being killed NOR being crucified.
   (Seek help for proper interpretation, you are lying!)

" The words "Shubbi-ha la hum" means "he made it or him to be  like
" it or him", or "dubious."  The question arises, who is the person
" who was made to appear "like  one  crucified."   Clearly  it  was
" Jesus whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay.  The theory invent-
" ed by some Muslim commentators that someone else was made to look
" like Jesus and was then crucified in his place, is simply absurd.
" The context of the verse cannot be twisted to make room for some-
" one  else.   No  one else is mentioned.  Besides, the belief that
" God made someone else, an innocent person, look like  Jesus,  and
" die in his place, makes God look very cruel.

   I did not know Muslims thought an innocent person died instead of
Jesus. Oops! How cruel!
   Your solution assumes that everybody was innocent which is even
more absurd than you think we are.
   If no one was mentioned, then no one existed! That is a rival for
Shakespeare's 'To be or not to be; that is the question!'

" As I will show in a future article, the belief of  a  Jesus-look-
" alike  dying  on  the  cross  instead  of Jesus has its origin in
" Christianity, and came into Islamic belief through conversion  of
" Christians to Muslims.

" So the Quran is clear that Jesus only appeared to  be  crucified,
" and in fact the Jews were in a state of doubt.

" The last portion quoted above refers to rafaa, spiritual  exalta-
" tion.  The plan of the Jews to make Jesus appear accursed by mak-
" ing him die the accursed death of crucifixion failed, and on  the
" contrary, Jesus survived the crucifixion.  In the sight of Allah,
" Jesus was not accursed.

" In summary, according to the Quran, humans live and  die  in  the
" physical  universe.   Prophets  are human beings.  Prophets, like
" all humans, are subject to hunger, pain, death, etc.   The  Quran
" is  clear that Jesus was a human being like Prophet Muhammad.  To
" say that Jesus is alive today, 2000 years after he was  born,  is
" to  make  him  more than a human.  The Laws of God do not change.

   Where is it in Koran that humans live < 2000 years?

" In fact, the Quran makes a general statement: "But you will never
" find  any  change  in the way of Allah, nor will you find any al-
" teration in the way of Allah (35:44)."

   Probably, some people like you thought that this verse addressed
the Prophet and they could themselves find a some alterations.
Some people are too smart.

" Dr. Tahir Ijaz, M.D.

P.S.  This article skipped moderation due to loss and or excessive
latency of some of my previous posts to this group.

**