HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:49:46 GMT
	<CC.92Oct5113510@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <BvnE1E.8JJ@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <BvnE1E.8JJ@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

   >They have to call it "Irn Bru" because it doesn't have iron in it any more.
   >It used to be called "Iron Brew".

   All together now (in best pantomime tradition):-

			OH! YES IT DOES!!!

Well, blow me down.  I got my info from some random "Scotsman" or "Scotland
on Sunday" a couple of years back; they must have got it wrong.  I suppose
I'm just one of those naive striplings who believe what they read in the
papers :-)
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: jem3@pyuxf.uucp (25312-mc killop)
Subject: The IRISH EMIGRANT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:53:06 GMT

The Irish Emigrant is published weekly by Liam Ferrie in Galway.
For those of the you in the U.S.A. (and perhaps Canada), requests
to be added to the distribution, or notification of change of
address should be sent to:         

                     irish-net-REQUEST@cs.cornell.edu


For those of you elsewhere in the world, Liam Ferrie can be reached
at:

                     ferrie@macnas.enet.dec.com

Enjoy!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@pyuxf.cc.bellcore.com                  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Suzanne Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Looking for contacts in Ireland.
Summary: Looking for contacts in Ireland.
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:58:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: mailhub.suzanne.84
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.

In article <1992Sep28.162315.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> il26@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:

>I will be going to Ireland in January next year, and will be there
>for about 4 weeks.  This will be my first trip there, and Ideally,
>I'd like to live there for several months.  I'd appreciate any
>suggestions or comments on living and working in Ireland. While
>I don't have a specific place in mind, my preference would be
>in a country setting or small town.  I'm hoping to do some
>personal research while I'm there.  Thanks for the help.

>Robert Hunter.


I should think you'd have a difficult time finding work in Ireland with 
their 20% rate of unemployment.

We went to Co. Waterford last January and found the Cappoquin/Dungarvan/Ring 
areas pleasant and peaceful.  A great place to go if you're a writer.  The 
Cork/Kinsale areas nice, too.  Email me if you want some specifics.
Slan agat,
Suzanne in CA
-----
suzanne@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:55:04 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

worden@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (elizabeth worden) writes:

>In article <1992Sep16.115343.23722@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Sep16.093629.376@st-andrews.ac.uk>, rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson) writes...
>>> 
>>>COME ON CRAIG - where do you get that outdated notion that 'only
>>>men wear kilts!!!!' - perhaps in some kind of primeavil eden that
>>
>>I said that men wear kilts, and women wear kilted skirts. Your description
>>of a female kilt, is the kilted skirt.
>>
>>The OED says under Kilt... "part of Highland man's dress. Similar garment worn
>>by children and women". ie. Men wear kilts, women wear something similar,
>>this being a kilted skirt
>>
>>Craig
>>

>Craig, you certainly are not listening very well!  In pipe bands, the
>kilts worn by members, male and female members, that is members of
>EITHER gender, do not differ at all!  The very same identical kilt

  Playing with language and definition always causes arguments in which
  both sides are arguing with an unseen enemy, and always right.

  BY DEFINITION, as Craig is correctly stating, the Kilt is something
  worn by a man.  This is its historic origin and etymological definition.

  BY MODERN CONVENTION we come to know a piece of clothing called a "kilt"
  simply by its material substance, regardless of who's wearing it.

  This is typically what happens when language and culture lose their
  origin meaning and purpose, which is certainly the case since the '45.

  You are fighting on separate battle grounds.
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 1 Oct 1992 08:51:02 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com
Keywords: Orange marches Ireland

In article <1992Sep30.091239.27925@spider.co.uk>, alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.070155.12571@netcom.com> eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart) writes:
> >
> >The stated purpose of the Orange marches has been for expression of pride
> >in Protestantism and "Britishness", but it seems that their main purpose
> >in the North is to intimidate the nationalist population.  This would be
> >pointless in the Republic, so I would guess that the marches' purpose
> >would be the former.
> 
> As a writer in the Scotsman pointed out back in July, if it weren't
> for the context of bigotry, the Glasgow Orange marches would be being
> hailed as a fine example of street culture, and probably be given a
> grant from the EC. (oops, am I about to tie two threads together).
> 

Even in NI there is still something of a general carnival atmosphere
for some of the marches, especially if the sun is shining. Obviously
marches in places like Portadown have more unpleasant undertones, stirred
up by both sides, but they aren't all like that.

Despite the media's love of doom&gloom the people in Ireland, North & South,
are a lot more tolerant than we're given credit for. Drive round the
gaeltacht areas of Donegal in July, almost half the cars you see have
Northern registrations. They're just people on holiday, religion &
politics ignored.

Steve


-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: phys218@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: Who lived in Great Britain before the Kelts?
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:06:36 GMT

It's a long time since I took my degree in philosophy, and time and
subsequent degrees in law and physics have blurred my memory of the
detailed names of the logical fallacies, but I can still recognize in
Elizabeth Hamilton's article three of of the classic abuses of rational
argument.

The first is the ordinary old appeal to alleged authority.  Mallory
disagrees with Renfrew.  So do others, and yet others support him.  The
arguments cannot be settled except by modelling each person's theory and
seeing how the numbers that come out stack against the physical
evidence.  Listing the names proves nothing.

The second is a variant of guilt by association.  Elizabeth wishes to
induce us to reject Colin Renfrew's suggestions concerning the neolithic
settlement of Europe.  She does this by (a) applying a label, "hyper-
diffusionistic" to them, (b) applying the same label to a biological
theory which has absolutely no connection with the subject under
discussion (c) but which is brought up only because it has recently
been discredited.  I would hope that the readers of this group are not
so gullible as to take the desired final step of inferring that since
Renfrew's theory has been labelled with the same label, it too must be
a discredited theory.

The third is an attempt to create the false impression that Renfrew has
contradicted himself by further applying the "hyperdiffusionist" label
to the old megalith theories that Renfrew himself discredited some years
ago, thereby again inviting us to fall into the trap of confusing the
label with the thing and inferring that all theories to which Elizabeth
applies that label have been discredited.

Renfrew, properly in my view, advocates a hard-headed, scientific, 
mathematical analysis of the archaeological evidence.  There is plenty
of room to disagree and argue about details of models and the relation-
ship between them and the physical evidence, and those are the areas in
which archaeologists should be active.  Renfrew freely acknowledges that
all of his detailed suggestions may well prove to be wrong when the
evidence is more fully analysed.  Those old mathematically incompetent,
pseudo-scientific archaeologists, with their pet theories fashioned to
satisfy emotional needs rather than to account for the evidence, will
scream and kick, but their day is past.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyndon Watson                              L.Watson@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:6316 soc.culture.french:7221
From: rouxclau@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Roux Claude)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Gallo?
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:02:05 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <26469@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>Patrick Guimonet writes:
>>For me, Gallo is a dialect which is just between Breton and French.
>
>Do you have any knowledge about how this works?  Is it a pidgin?
>Are French words imposed on a Breton grammatical background, or
>Breton on a French grammatical bkgd, or some mixture?  How common
>is Gallo today?


May I say a word about it? Yes? No? Ok... I go... The Gallo is one of the
numerous dialects spoken in Bretagne. It was spoken in the Finistere and
has certainly incoporated a large number of French words (as did English after
all) because of the proximity of both languages (I mean geographical proximity)
The grammar is certainly a gaellic one...


Claude le revenant...
From: shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Cliff Richard, I hope for the last time *smile*
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:34:13 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

Unless you are talking about another song, "We Don't Talk Anymore"
was not by Cliff Richard, but by guy whose name escapes me.  I will
try to dig out my old greatest hits by him, which does have that 
song on it, and see what his name is.  The song "Suddenly" was a song
that ws indeed a duet with Olivia Newton-John, but the guy singing wiht
her was John Travolta.  It was a song from the soundtrack of a 
movie they did together.  It was either Two Of A Kind or Grease, I think.

Oh the guy's name who did "We Don't Talk Anymore" was Dan Hill.  He
has had a NUMBER of hits in the USA.  I knew it would come ot me
sooner or later!  *laugh*

I want to say again, that I was simply saying that Cliff Richard
was accused of not being a Christian by a group of people because
he released a song in the USA called "Devil Woman".  We loved it
and in NO way did it make us think he meant it in anyway, other
than the one that it appeard.  Just that sometimes you meet someone
who makes you crazy!  *laugh*  In that, I can see nothing that would
insinuate that one was not a Christian.  As I said, I just remembered
he incident, and our parents talking to us about the song, and our telling
them what the song was REALLY about.  It was all a lot of bull....*smile*

Suzanne
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:29:15 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

papageno@bluemoon.rn.com (Andrew Armstrong) writes:

>a few months now.  But in this time, I have seen little discussion about 
>Celtic holidays.  I would appreciate it if someone could make a list of 
>magor holidays, their signifigance, and how they are observed.  I am very 

  This is a big subject.  Easier to recommend some books to you, which you
  should be able to find in local libraries...

  Of the "Silver Bough" series of 4 books by F.Marian McNeill, the latter
  three are simply dedicated to the Celtic festivals in Scotland (the
  first book being a general overview of Celtic culture in Scotland).

  Also, see "The Celtic Consciousness", edited by O'Discroll (proceedings
  of the 1980 conference in Toronto) for several nice articles about
  holidays.

  Also, see my "Celtic History Museum", shareware HyperCard presentation
  on the Celts for some good introductory discussion  ;-)

  -- mn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:47:53 GMT

From article <1992Sep28.135828.2962@samba.oit.unc.edu>, by hughes@physics.unc.edu (W. Christopher Hughes):
> In article <44997@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep25.163221.24445@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>>
>>I'm just back from Denmark where one sometimes sees houses with flagpoles in 
>>the gardens flying the Danish flag, ot sometimes a red and white
>>streamer that I suppose represents the Danish flag.
>>
>>I remember seeing this in Switzerland, Austria and Turkey when I visited
>>those countries. Certainly, as mmh syas, if anyone un the UK had the
>>Union Jack in their garden, you'd suspect them of being some kind of
>>fascist loony. Only the Queen has a flag in her garden, which proves my
>>point rather well :-)
>>
>>Perhaps the people flying these flags are some kind of elected officials
>>or something. Does anyone know? I've never seen such displays in France
>>or Ireland.
>>
>>M
>>--
>>Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
> 

Just for the record, even though my name appears above I did not make
any of these comments, Morna quoted me correctly, then the next poster
let my comment fall off. However, I do agree with the comment linking
the queen to the idea of fascist loonies.

As for all the reasons being given by british posters about the
"attacks" on the US being about injustices and third world stuff, all I
have to say is that IT IS mostly anti-american rather than being rooted in
some sort of justic stuff. I goes back to the fact that the US is the
most powerful nation in the world (and lets everyone know it), so of
course this creates anti-american feelings (especially since britain was
once the most powerful nation and is now less significant on the world scene).
A similar anti-british sentiment also existed when britain was the world super
power (and let everone know it). So lets be honest and not try and dress
anti-americanism up in rational arguements, human nature is such that people
do not like being told that someone is "better" than them especially if the
one doing the telling is the one that has been put forward as being the
"better".

																GW
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:29:22 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Oct5.022907.8101@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>Clearly women have every right to dress themselves up as men and play in a
>pipe band, but that doesn't mean that we should suddenly understand that
>the kilt is usual female attire.

It's not usual male attire either. :-) It's attire for special
occasions, unless Edinburgh is very different from usual.

>
>I've heard some very competant women pipers and drummers, and some extremely
>good bands with female members, but never I must admit, a good all-female
>band, although I presume there must be some.  But why must the female
>members wear men's traditional attire?


Presumably because Pipe bands get points in competition for appearance
and so they must all wear what's expected. My ex-Boss once piped for
the Royal Canadian Air-Force band, who wear their own tartan, which is
blue and grey - a bit like Anderson, but duller. They wore toning
grey jackets. He was convinced they did badly in competitions because
bands in the more usual black jackets and red kilts looked jollier.

>Probably too frivolous a cross-example, but anyway, if men became members
>of a cheer-leader squad, would it be reasonable for them to wear tights and
>short skirts.  If they did, would that imply that tights and skirts were
>usual mens' dress?

Things are "reasonable" when they are either sensible ( not a word I
would apply to cheerleaders, but then I know nothing about that sort of
thing) or when they become acceptable through use . I expect that if enough 
men wanted to be cheerleaders and wear tights we would all get used to it. 
Dancers wear tights. Why,a pair of long powerful male thighs in clinging 
tights look rather..( ooh, excuse me I was getting carried away there :-) :-) )

(Cough..)

Aye and Tarzan wore a pretty short skirt, as I remember.


>Alasdair wrote:
>>I'm sure there are women in German oompah bands who wear lederhosen,
>>but that doesn't stop it being a traditionally male costume. 
>
>to which Morna replied: 
>>It doesn't stop it being Lederhosen either. :-)
>
>Very true, but not really the point.  Alasdair got it right in one.

Well I thought it was the point :-)





M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: hughes@physics.unc.edu (W. Christopher Hughes)
Subject: US Aid to Northern Ireland?
Organization: Dept. of Physics and Astronomy, Univ. North. Carolina at Chapel Hill
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:08:45 GMT

Just a tidbit from the AM news here in NC.  Our two Senate candidates debated
yesterday.  The Republican -Lauch Faircloth- accused the Dem -Sen. Terry
Sanford- of wastefully spending money.  One of the items he mentioned was
that Sanford had voted for bills funding ski resorts in Idaho, bike trails
in Miami, and thousands of dollars of foreign aid to Northern Ireland!

This of course raised two questions in my mind.  First, shouldn't he have
really said foreign aid to the UK or did the US senate give money to Noraid
while no one was watching?  Second, I know that many US citizens give 
"foreign aid" to the north, but does the US governement really do that?

Just my $0.02 worth, but I think this is just a case of the Rep. setting
up a straw man to attack the Dem. with.  I feel pretty sure that Faircloth
would vote to spend a little money if he were in D.C. too.

Now back to my cave,
Liam O/ hAodha
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Homogenisation ( Was Re: My Ugly American post for the year....)
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:26:01 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <23374@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <NIALL.92Oct4163805@scheria.nmsu.edu>, niall@nmsu.edu (Niall Graham) writes:

 [About regional music styles dying out]

>> This is of course a thing of the past because music is particularly
>> tender prey for the monster created by mass communication.
>> Now do we really want to see the rest of the world being similarly
>> homogenized? 
>
 [About why this might be]

> So the problem I see with your views is that you make a value judgement that
>implies that the result of homogenized cultures is somehow inferior to
>that which one sees from cultures which are isolated or whose exposure
>to outside cultures is limited. I don't buy that premise...
>

Hmm.. maybe it's like the argument for preserving the gene pool of the
planet. Half the worlds farms now grow the same few strains of cereals.
These are more resistant to pests and disease and give better yields.
Does it matter that other strains of crops are dissaperaing from use
and may die out?

We don't know if it matters - only hindsight will tell, but most folk
seem to think it's a good idea to keep other species alive.





M




--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Culture Death (was BASH! BASH! BASH!)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:30:54 GMT

From article <23161@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
> 
> . . . . . . . . . . .if a country is unable to keep its own culture alive
> then it shouldn't blame others for its failure... 
> 
> 			gln
> 
Interesting point. Back before I left Scotland (1978) scottish "cultural
things" were few and far between; were few books could be bought that
were written by scottish authors, modern scottish poetry was non
existant, and only a few pubs (in Aberdeen) ever had folk singers, plus
the occasional Corries concert).  However, after about 1984 I started
noticing a lot more stuff (when I would return), and inparticular, more
books and music tapes. Now we have all of Gibbon's books being reissued
along with all of Gunn's books. I can also find a plethora of "bothy
song music" now, in addition to music by Ossian, Battlefield Band, etc.

Has anyone elso noticed this or do I just notice it because of extended
absences. If it is a "real effect" what has spurred this interest in
scottish culture (is it all the Tory victories)? Also, prior to about
1984 many history books that would go up to the present (e.g. No Gods
and Precious Few Heros) were very pessimistic(sp) about the future of
scottish culture.

												GW
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: *Scottish Film Industry* is there such a thing?????!
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:18:22 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

mbailie@oregon.uoregon.edu (Mashoed Bailie) writes:

Pullman Productions but they normally do sub-contract work for TV
companies.
They're based in Glasgow.

Dave

-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Seamus Heaney
Date: 01 Oct 92 18:46:45 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <1992Sep30.141319.7380@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Douglas Clark) writes:
>
[deleted]
>
>I would have thought that Seamus Heaney, Poet, Dublin
>would be a reachable address. Supply a stamped addressed envelope
>if you want a reply. He will get lots of unwanted mail.
>

If one does write and does include a return envelope, it has to be
stamped with the appropriate Irish stamp or stamps to be mailed from
Dublin (or U.K. postage for an answer from London). But definitely not
with a U.S. or Canadian stamp -- it is amazing the number of otherwise
smart people who need to be reminded of this. Better for an overseas
correspondent to include an international reply coupon, available at
post offices everywhere. Just a reminder for anyone for might need it.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda