From: tim@kudzu.viewlogic.com (Tim Foster)
Subject: Re: Ignorant (was Re: Selfish)
Originator: tim@kudzu
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:16:25 GMT


In article <1992Oct06.175815.6496@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
|> tim@kudzu.viewlogic.com (Tim Foster) writes:
|> >
|> >If you expected this article to be about Magic, you're right.
|> 
|> I must say that I'm growing tired of these anti-Magic postings.
|> It is people like you, Tim, who think you know so much about the NBA and
|> HIV, that you know the best for all worlds.  To be honest, you and those
|> like you make me sidk.

You know, I'm sick and tired of people like you who the first thing
that they do when they respond to a post is to get personal.  My post
was an opinion on the issue.  Why can't you dispute my opinion without
attacking my personal character?

|> >I believe that what Magic is doing is very selfish.
|.
|> I think what you are saying is stupid.  Does that mean you shouldn't do
|> it?  Does that make it wrong?
|>
|> >I continue to have little respect for the man.  Why?  Not because of the 
|> >money.  If the Lakers are foolish enough to pay him, that's their problem.  
|> >It is a business transaction for both parties, from which both stand to 
|> >profit.  
|> 
|> Pull your head out of you ass.  Magic was going to receive the money for the
|> next two years no matter what, and rumor has it that the Lakers were planning
|> on giving him an extension even if he never came back.
|> 
|> It isn't a business transaction, it's a payback.

You even attack me personally when I have no problem with what Magic
is doing.  I specifically stated that money was not the issue here.

|> >But because I believe he is putting himself before all the other players in 
|> >the league.  Magic has a disease which is fatal to all who contract it.  
|> 
|> It is my understanding that Magic has tested HIV positive, but has not,
|> as of yet, contracted the AIDS virus.  HIV <> AIDS.

Whether or not Magic has aids, he can still transmit the virus.  That
is a fact.  Although HIV <> AIDs, it is undisputed in the medical arena
that it will eventually lead to AIDs if something else doesn't kill the
infected person first.

|> >The way that this disease is communicated is through blood.  
|> 
|> Shows you know a little something.  I figured you were going to say that
|> Magic might pass it to Isiah when they kiss cheeks at mid-court.  You make
|> it sound like HIV blood is like acid.
|>
|> >Although the odds are probably pretty low, there still remains a chance 
|> >that some contact with Magic might cause blood to flow.  Teeth can easilty 
|> >break through someone's skin if hard contact is made.  That is the nature 
|> >of the game of basketball, especially in the NBA.  
|> 
|> Sure it's possible.  It's also possible that 50 other NBAers would test 
|> HIV positive, so should we then test them all and toss out everyone who
|> comes up positive?  I think not.

I never said and do not believe that anyone who is HIV+ should be
banned from playing.   It is my opinion that those who have tested
positive should make the decision themselves.  However, I feel that
those who decide to play are threatening the lives of their peers.
Therefore, if they choose to continue playing, I feel that they are
being selfish.

By the way, I know that I am selfish in many ways in the way I live
my life.  However, I don't believe that I am threatening the lives of
others.

|> It's also positive that someone you work with might have AIDS, and might
|> bump into you coming around the corner.  You might cut him with a fingernail
|> and then accidentally contract AIDS.  LET'S QUARANTINE THEM ALL!!!!!!

You take the much more likely case of a contact sport and compare it
to a case which is many times less likely to happen.  If you have 
read the post by Russ Smith, you will see that this has already 
happened in a similar situation in sports.  If you had not read that,
you probably would have betted your life that, although possible, 
this would never happen.  If you wouldn't have betted your life, then
why should anyone listen to what you're saying.

|> Too many people sound this ignorant.  If Magic starts to bleed, everyone 
|> in the Palace isn't going to fall over with AIDS.  Another individual must 
|> not only come into contact with the blood, but must also have it enter an 
|> open sore, etc...  And then there is only the possibility that they will 
|> actually later be diagnosed HIV positive.  You make it sound like 'if Magic 
|> bleeds, someone will get AIDS' and that simply isn't true.

I disagree.  I did not make it sound like that. I never made the case that
if Magic bleeds, someone will get AIDs.  I presented one possible case
where it could happen (blood in the mouth).

|> >Anyone who denies that this is a possibility is just fooling themselves.  
|> >If Magic was concerned about his peers, he would not put them in the 
|> >situation where they are threatened.  I know most of his peers say that
|> >they support Magic, and that's great.  But it would still be the "right"
|> >thing to do for Magic not to risk their lives, just for his own 
|> >happiness.
|> 
|> So I guess you know what is right.  Magic and all others that have tested
|> HIV positive should live a secluded life behind closed doors, just to make
|> sure that no freak accident ever occurs that could jepordize anyone
|> else's livelihood.  Magic is just trying to live like a normal person,
|> which he is.

Behind closed doors?  I never said such a thing.  You continue to 
blow out of proportion what I have I said, while at the same time
downplaying the possibility that anything like this can happen.  Well
it has already happened, and it probably will happen again.  If I were
Magic, I wouldn't want to be the one to allow it to happen to someone
else if it were by my doing something that was not necessary to live.
Playing basketball is not a necessity for Magic.  It is a desire, a 
want.

|> You aren't the first person to consider all of these possibilities.  And
|> you certainly won't be the last.  I'm sure that Magic, his staff of doctors
|> (and you can bet they aren't a bunch of bums), the Laker front office,
|> his teammates, other NBA players, the NBA as an association, the players
|> association, etc... have discussed these topics.  If you think you have
|> come to a better conclusion that all of the aforementioned people, maybe
|> you should wake up.

If I were in Magic's situation, I can honestly say that I would not
play in fear of endangering someone else's life by doing something 
that I did not need to do in order to live a normal life.

|> Sorry for the babbling folks, but this has been really bothering me.
|>
|> -- 
|> Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
|> Bell Northern Research, Inc.

Sorry for sticking to my guns, folks.  But that's the way I feel.

-- 

Tim Foster 
E-mail: tfoster@viewlogic.com