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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:06:00 EDT
From:         JOURL205@KSUVXA.KENT.EDU
Subject:      Film Schools

Cinema-L'ers:
        Recently, I was accepted into the Cinema-Television program at the
University of Southern California.  Unfortunately, the exhuberent cost ($22,000
per year) and a lack of financial aid have forced me to decline the off of admis
   sion.  Regardless, I am still intent on attending a university with a strong
film program, specifically in production.
        I've set my sights on UCLA for Fall 1993 and have started the admission
procedures rolling.  However, I was wondering if there were any of you out there
    in list land that might be able to provide me with some information on other
films schools.  Which do you think are the best?  Why?  I'm mainly looking at
those in the Los Angeles area (there's a surprise), but would be happy to
consider any others.
        Please post any responses to the list.  I figure that there might be a
few others interested in this info, and if there are any points of contention
I would like to hear the arguments.
                                        Thanks in advance,
                                        Ryan S. Leasher
                                        INTERNET:  JOURL205@kentvxa.kent.edu
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:53:57 PDT
From:         DU013@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU
Subject:      Previews....
              Jr. (Billy)" <S70762OW@ETSUACAD.BITNET>

From:  Mary Shaffer


Bill, confirming receipt of the above ...

Thanks,
Mary
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:43:00 EDT
From:         Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU
Subject:      Re: Until the End of the World (was Re: serious discussion of
              sin)
X-To:         CINEMA-L@american.edu

The version I saw was only about 2 hours and 45 minutes and I thought
it was swell - I suspect that there are very few movies I could sit through
for 3 hours and 45 minutes
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:57:23 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      alternative endings

REPLY TO 07/24/92 09:52 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Film beef on CBS News

Apropos of this topic, a friend was telling me just the other night
that Henry James slightly altered the ending of PORTRAIT OF A LADY
after the first edition.  Jennifer

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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:40:19 -0400
From:         Tanya Augsburg <ilay9228@EMORYU1.CC.EMORY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Multiple Laserdisc endings
X-cc:         TANYA AUGSBURG <ILAY9228@emoryu1.BITNET>

> Besides, why leave all that space empty on the disc?  And hey, didn't Joyce
> change Finnegans Wake right up till it was typeset, just as he did with
> _Ulysses_?  (Fisher, you might want to check your Cliff Notes on that one.)
>
> Rick Francis  <C47805NF@WUVMD>


As it is, grad students have to sit through horrendously boring seminars
on the differences between the various published versions of Ulysses.
Really, all you guys takes Joyce and Faulkner too seriously.  Remember
that both had vicious senses of humor, both loved to parody, and Joyce at
least admired mass/popular culture from afar.  Bloom is depicted in a much
more favorable light than the student (forgive me if I don't have my novel
handy at the moment--I was always bad with names).

I can't help but think of Bloom's toilet episode after reading all this
mail on this topic lately.

The stench is becoming unbearable...

	Tanya in Atlanta
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:47:00 -0700
From:         PORTIGAL_STEVE@TANDEM.COM
Subject:      a probably false rumor
X-To:         cinema-l@auvm.american.edu

I'm pretty sure I posted something about this movie awhile back.  There's
a film directed by Dennis Hopper, starring Hopper, Jody Foster, and an
incredible supporting cast (Dean Stockwell, Vincent Price, a few others).
It's called uhh Backtrack I think.  Bob Dylan has a bizarre cameo in it
as a sculpter.  It's a TERRIBLE movie.  At least one of the cast had his
name removed, oh yeah Joe Pesci plays essentially his Good Fellas character,
but doesn't appear in the credits.

It could've been a good movie, but the story really makes little sense,
the motivations are unclear, and it's just unsatisfying.

Starts off great, but gets ruined.  Someoen compared it to the also bad
The Hot Spot, another Hopper project.

Steve

------------   ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT   --------
SENT 07-24-92 FROM SMTPGATE (CINEMA-L@auvm.american.edu)

I heard a film-related rumor a few months back, and, having been trying to get
at the heart of it for some time, suddenly realized that this is probably the
place to do it.  Any news of Bob Dylan appearing in a soon-to-be released film?
Has he been in anything recently in a cameo-type role (I ask this because I
have missed most of the latest releases)?  Are they remaking Streets of Fire,
perhaps?
-rkaplan
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:36:08 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Vincent and Theo

REPLY TO 07/30/92 13:42 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Vincent and Theo

Michael:  Yes, but I should I tell the part about the ear? :)
Jennifer

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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:48:20 EST
From:         Bill Felty <BILL.FELTY@UKWANG.UKY.EDU>
Subject: The Rapture
X-To:         "CINEMA-L%AUVM.AMERICAN.E"
              <CINEMA-L%AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU@UKCC.UKY.EDU>

Gary,

I saw "The Rapture" a few months back and loved it.  The film is beautifully
directed and Mimi Rodgers delivers an excellent performance.  It's one of those
films that you'll discuss/analyze long after you've seen it.  I highly
recommend it.

Bill Felty
University of Kentucky
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:23:00 EDT
From:         David M Stein <STEIN@LTUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Louie, Louie

Well, someone posted asking about the lyrics to "Louie, Louie".  Well, here
they are.

Everyone sing along..

========================

LOUIE LOUIE, ME GOTTA GO
LOUIE LOUIE, ME GOTTA GO
A FINE LITTLE GIRL, SHE WAIT FOR ME
ME CATCH THE SHIP ACROSS THE SEA
I SAIL THE SHIP ALL ALONE
I NEVER THINK I MAKE IT HOME
LOUIE LOUIE, ME GOTTA GO
THREE NIGHTS AND DAYS WE SAILED THE SEA
ME THINK OF GIRL CONSTANTLY
ON SHIP I DREAM SHE BE THERE
I SMELL THE ROSE IN HER HAIR
LOUIE LOUIE, ME GOTTA GO
ME SEE JAMACIAN MOON ABOVE
IT WON'T BE LONG ME SEE MY LOVE
ME TAKE HER IN MY ARMS AND THEN
I TELL HER I NEVER LEAVE AGAIN

============================

Dave
Stein
STEIN@LTUVAX
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:29:34 PDT
From:         DU013@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU
Subject:      re: Addressing the camera
              31 Jul 1992 13:23:57 BST from Rob Simpson
              <robs@CHARLES-CROSS.POLY-SOUTH-WEST.AC.UK>

From:  Mary Shaffer


One famous example of this is Michael Caine as "Alfie" (circa 1966?)
and I think Woody Allen may have addressed the camera in "Annie Hall".
Of course, "Moonlighting", "Burns and Allen" and "The Gary Shandling Show"
used this technique very effectively on TV..

Thanks,
Mary
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:36:00 EST
From:         "WEAVER, KYLE" <KRW@PSULIAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Casablanca (was HarrisonFord)

ADULTERY, MAYBE?????
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:54:00 EDT
From:         "Mike.Simmons" <20676MES@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Shining Through

Oh go ahead, rent it!  On a cheap night or when its two for one.  Its a
"guilty pleasure".  Don't be looking for art though!
Mike
MSU.
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 10:16:09 EDT
From:         "George V. Chastain" <U0E53@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Surprising actor in CITY FOR CONQUEST

On 07/24/92 at 09:24:00 Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU said:
>George, when I said you get two peeks of the first act in CITY
>FOR CONQUEST I meant that in TNT's version you get the two peeks
>I describe - In the uncut version the first act is quite
>detailed.

Now that you've pointed out the cuts, it's obvious that some things
were missing -- I did notice that Frank Craven didn't have much
of a part; a little more childhood character development would
have moved things along too.

When the end credits rolled I was delighted to find out that the
actor who played the adult Googie (Cagney's gangster friend who
takes his rivals for a ride after the dirty fight) was Elia Kazan!
According to Ephraim Katz' FILM ENCYCLOPEDIA, he only acted in two
films (the other is BLUES IN THE NIGHT), though he'd been acting
as well as directing on the stage for years.  He's better known
as the director of terrific films like A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN,
BOOMERANG, GENTLEMAN'S AGREEMENT, PINKY, A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE,
VIVA ZAPATA!, ON THE WATERFRONT, EAST OF EDEN, BABY DOLL, A FACE
IN THE CROWD, WILD RIVER, SPLENDOR IN THE GRASS, AMERICA AMERICA
and THE LAST TYCOON (among others).  (So what's he been up to lately?)

He's an interesting performer; too bad he didn't act in more films.

George Chastain -- WVNET, Morgantown, West Virginia
U0E53@WVNVM or U0E53@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:16:29 CST
From:         Rick Francis <C47805NF@WUVMD.BITNET>
Subject: Who cares about literacy? Hooray for movies!

You know, back in the old days, back in the Old Country, the best
writers in a language were used as models of style.  Students didn't
have to spend portions of their higher education learning how to
define a sentence, because they were striving to imitate the varied
styles of effective writers.  If you hoped to be a great chess-player,
wouldn't you get past the rules to studying openings?

Fisher says that he inherits mis-educated students, and I don't doubt that.
I actually spent some time in the trenches, as a tutor for 19- and 20-
year-olds in a class called (no joking) _The English Sentence_.  To put
it frankly, these kids were screwed.  They were often bright, and often
ambitious-- and were functionally illiterate.  Though many of us strived
valiantly to teach, and though many students strived to learn, the success
rate was not impressive.  For many it was simply too late to learn the
oops anything more than the basics of reading and writing.

That saddened me then, and it still does.  Not merely for what it meant
for the lives of those students, but for what it meant for this country
as it enters an age in which skilled workers will be great demand...

But (and this is what I've been leading up to) does that mean that college
professors should be content *merely* to teach that level???  Does that
mean that we should accept writing teachers who don't understand the
incredible *clarity* of Faulkner and Joyce (for example) in expressing
*complex* ideas?  Sure, they are difficult.  Yes, it is challenging to
teach them to undergraduates.  But is it now beyond us to enjoy a
fine, long, complex (in the grammatical sense) sentence by Faulkner?  If
we could do that, wouldn't Fisher's concern about sentence definitions be
met, and exceeded, as well?

I am truly mystified by the responses of Fisher and Hoy.  Maybe I just don't
get it, but is Hoy mixing up ee cummings with Faulkner?

Is Fisher implying that sloppy speech is somehow related to the precision
of our best writers, merely by being made up of longer sentences than
"See Dick run"?  Again, maybe I don't get it, but the responses suggest
that these educators really don't see the difference between Faulkner's
transcription of the thoughts of a retarded person, and the unthinking
speech of an adolescent.  And that's a very sad state of affairs.  If you
think that writing Molly's soliloquy is a matter of transcribing valley
speech, give it a try.

Teach students to appreciate the nuances of James, Hammett, Coover, Gaddis
and Ocampo, Ferre' and Beckett, etc.  and we won't *need* to pay people
like Fisher to teach remedial English.  The irony of this exchange is that
the ones decrying the state of education are themselves showing the symptoms.

"As we classroom types know . . . "  What a sad commentary on these students'
last chance to get an education.

So, seen any good movies lately?   -- Rick Francis
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:14:00 -0700
From:         PORTIGAL_STEVE@TANDEM.COM
Subject:      Re: Movie Databases
X-To:         cinema-l@auvm.american.edu

What is FTP?  I'll try to explain this tersely, hopefully I'm not being
redundant here...

If you are on the internet, you may have access to a command called
"ftp", file transfer protocol. it's like downloading only between
mainframes.

You just say, from unix if yer using unix, ftp <site name>, ftp <site number>.
From there, you will be connected to the site. Login as "anonymous" and
give your email address as password.

then you can use help to find out more, or you can just use cd as in unix,
put and get to (duhh) put and get files.

If enough people express interest to me (privately, let's reduce non cinema
list traffic) i will post a simple help file aobut how to use ftp to the
list.

If you are on BITNET, there is a BITFTP mail server that will mail stuff
to you if you can't ftp.  I can also post about this if there is enough
interest.
sorry to post all this non cinema info. I guess the motive is to help others
access movie related stuff.   (yawn, first thing in the morning for me)...
    Steve Portigal, portigal_steve@tandem.com

------------   ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT   --------
SENT 07-31-92 FROM SMTPGATE (CINEMA-L@auvm.american.edu)

> On Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:12:01 PDT <DU013@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU> said:
> >From:  Mary Shaffer
> >
> >
> >How do you access the database at boulder.colorado.edu? What's available?
> >There have been at least two references in recent posts and I was curious
> >and thought others on the list might want to know, too.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Mary
> =========================================================================
> Could someone also send me this information as well?

> From:         "Kenneth R. Jackson"

Maybe it would be easier to the list because I would also like this
information.  Thanks.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michelle Lehman                                 michelle@ortta.umn.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:08:32 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Vincent and Theo

REPLY TO 07/30/92 08:56 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Vincent and Theo

Get thee to the theater.  This is a very down-to-earth portrayal of
the Van Gogh brothers and their symbiotic relationship.  Vincent's
enigmatic personality and descent into madness are convincingly
presented (without the usual Hollywood histrionics).  (IS THAT
CONSIDERED A SPOILER -- DARE I GIVE AWAY THE ENDING??)

I would recommend this film to anyone who wants to get a real feel for
what Van Gogh must have been like.  Jennifer

To:  CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 01:12:00 EDT
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Serious discussion of cinema

>Does anyone know of another list that focuses a little more on
>serious discussions of cinema?  I don't mean semiotics necessarily,
>but perhaps something in between that and Tipper Gore.

Tired of the bull? Take the bull by the horns and start
a new list. Some possibilities:

     ROLAND_BARTHE-L
     ANDRE_BAZIN-L
     LEVI-STRAUSS-L

The last is for confirmed Structuralists only. And
I suggest you avoid anything called REX_REED-L.

kjf-
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:35:00 ZONE
From:         Steve Rife <STEV@MCO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Rapture

I also thought the Rapture was an excellant movie and highly recommend it.

Steve Rife
(STEV@MCO)
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:17:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      "Twenty-one" and breaking the fourth wall

I think I remember someone on this list asking for examples of films where
a character or characters speak directly to the camera; i.e. directly
addressing the audience.  Last night I watched "Twenty-one" which has
the lead character frequently addressing the camera.

Beyond that simple statement, I am not sure what to say about the film.
The lead character is a twenty-one year old English girl newly arrived
in New York.  Most of the movie is flashbacks explaining the events
that caused her to leave England.  Many scenes are played for comic
effect, but there is enough tragedy that filing the videotape under
"Comedy" would be a mistake.  The character is quite engaging, which
is good as she is on-screen almost the entire picture, and I felt
sympathetic towards her problems, but clearly a lot of her problems
were of her choosing.  For example, she is spunky enough that when
at a wedding reception when the groom tries to seduce her, she plays
along for a bit until the cad relaxes then she knees him in the groin.
But she ends up sleeping with him anyway because her junky boy friend
isn't interested in sex.

I'm really unsure how I feel about this picture and would welcome comments
from other people.

To forstall the obvious questions, I did not recognize any of the names
in the credits.  The only name I can remember is Don Boyd as in "a Don
Boyd film".  Sorry.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:56:07 EDT
From:         Lyn <PARKER@LEMOYNE.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Previews....

Bill,

I received "Previews".  I really appreciate your effort!

Lyn
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:18:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was ELGFROEHRER@PSULIAS
From:         ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Appropriate Subjects

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     28-Jul-1992 02:59pm DST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  Remote Network Mail User             ( _IN%CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET )


Subject: Re: Appropriate Subjects

Perhaps we should think of this list as a work in progress, rather than
revisiting the rules on which it was founded, even the constitution has
amendments.  Or...like the laserdisc version of a movie, each of us gets to
pick which direction we want it to go in.  I enjoy all the facts and opinions
about movies.  It is also nice to know that there are people out there with a
sense of humor.  In other words, take what you want and leave the rest. :)


By the way, there was some talk about vampire movies last week.  I am
particularly interested in movies being made based on the Anne Rice series.
Does anyone have any information about this?  Who is starring, directing, etc.?
:[

Unpopularly Yours,

Ellen
Penn State
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 11:39:00 EDT
From:         ERICSOPM@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Film, PoMo, sophistication

Before jump-cutting to to the topic of textual authenticity, let me
say, after a long absence, how enlightening it's been, sifting
through the montage -- and yes, Rick, even the champ-contre-champ --
of the recent ebb and flow of CINEMA-L. Thanks to the efforts of a
martyred colleague -- and, by the way Rick, an accomplished and
respected colleague -- a squad of grad students is poring over the
logs, and I am incorporating them into a Group Dynamics class. We
even have some rather pungent nicknames for the dozen or so regular
participants out of about 280 subscribers.

But enough. Onward and upward with the movies. I must remember to
avoid mentioning F*u*k*e* or J*y*e.

JUMPCUT

I've read some interesting variations here on the idea of the
Release Version vs. the Director's version. Does this remind anyone
else of the bad old days of 60's Auteur Theory, when all directors
were artists, and all studios and producers were butchers and
philistines? It's easy to believe that from the comfortably distant
twin Ivory Towers of academia and journalism, but most film/TV
professionals I know scorn the idea of directorial authorship --
even the directors. It's interesting to be at a screening full of
film people, and hear derisive laughter when "A Film by XXXXXX"
comes up in the credits. I'll shut up now and listen.

Yearning for an on-line thesaurus,
Phil
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:14:00 EDT
From:         JOURL205@KSUVXA.KENT.EDU
Subject:      Movie Databases

                I've already pillaged the boulder.colorado.edu ftp site for
its movie lists and was wondering if there were any others out there worth
examining.  I'm quite eager to find one containing perhaps some sort of special
effects listings (companies that did specific movies, etc.) or perhaps just an
article archive.  Does anyone know of any of these?  Please include an ftp
location designation.
                                        Thanks in advance,
                                        Ryan S. Leasher
                                        INTERNET:  JOURL205@kentvxa.kent.edu
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:08:08 CDT
From:         mike silbergleid <MSILBER3@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Casablanca (was HarrisonFord)

maybe that any rating lower than a PG would mean not enough draw
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