From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Perot ?
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:45:07 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Aug13.165121.23598@ultb.isc.rit.edu> eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story ) writes:
> In article <Bsuu00.I6w@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
> >In article <3483@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
> >>das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
> >>
> >Naw.  Gun Control.  Affirmative action.  Lowering of standards so
> >jobs can be had by the incapable.  Restrictions on business. etc.
> >...nothing to do with excercising undo control over people's lives.
>
> Death penalty, Anti-abortion laws, a complete non-understanding of the
> lower economic class, vodoo economics.. etc.
>

Death penalty is in the jurisdiction of the States, not the federal govt.
Anti-abortion laws are a consitutional question - why does the supreme
court get to decide what is life?

YOU don't understand the lower economic class.
YOU don't understand the lower economic class.
YOU don't understand the lower economic class.
YOU don't understand the lower economic class.
YOU don't understand the lower economic class.
The LBJ Great Society programs EXPANDED by 20% during the last 3 years
of Reagan.  EXPANDED.  Welfare +20%, Education +20%, health care +20%.
That's what failed.  More social spending == more misery.

Voodoo economics... HAHAHAHA.  Swallow this:

18,000,000 NEW jobs from 1980-1989.  Unemployment FELL from 7.1% to 5.5%.
% of black population below the poverty line FELL from 32% to 30%
12,000,000 of those NEW jobs were for women.

> >>  But that's the big lie.  Conseratism is *not* equality of chance, as they
> >>want more than anything to remove the social programs that give the less
> >>privledged among us the ability to make their lives better.
> >
> >They already HAVE the ability to make their lives better.  Same as I
> >do.  The only unfair laws providing increased opportunity to any
> >particular group that I know of are affirmative action programs.
>
> Ever hear of the "Glass ceiling"?  Ever hear of race discrimination?
> Conservatives like to think these things don't exist, that ANYONE can
> make their lives better.  What a load of BS.  These things DO exist, and
> no amount of pandering to rich cooperations will fix them.  The
> social programs may not be the end-all, but at least its recognizing the
> problem.
>

Ever hear of class envy?  Recognizing the problem?  It IS the problem.  Name
a social program that has lifted a person from poverty.

> >Liberals have a bad tendancy to leap before they look...the
> >quick-fix mentality.  Feel good stuff.  Lack of practicality.
>
> Feel better?  I'm sure supply-side economics was thought out
> completely... NOT!
>

Supply side economics gave us fantastic GNP growth, new jobs, cut
unemployment, and lowered the glass ceiling.  All those jobs was
exactly the result of trickle down.  Not thought out?  FALSE.  Not
implemented 100%?  TRUE.  Line item veto and balanced budget
amendment was asked for by Reagan and Bush and is NEEDED to eliminate
democrats' pork barrel overspending and budget busting policies.


> >>  Do you beleive there should be class seperation?  Are the rich somehow
> >>better?
> >
> >Yes.  They provide jobs, spur the economy, allow folks to improve
> >their standard of living, work hard for what they have.  They don't
> >sit around on the dole sucking the energies of the economy.
>
> Er, Check the unemployment rate recently?  Ever heard of Love Canal,
> Great Lakes.. etc.?  I'm sooooo sure these heads of cooperations care
> about my standard of living.  Wake up dude..
>

More liberal trash.

> >For me it's simple.  Those that produce should
> >get the gold.  Those that do not...do not.  Sounds imminently fair.
>
> Yeah, except for one small fact.  There are lots of people who CAN'T
> produce up to their potential because of discrimination.  Pay attention,
> Look around.
>

OK, I look around.  Immigrant boat people.  Vietnamese and Koreans helping
each other to succeed without assistance from the govt.  If you see a
formula that works, follow it!

> >A big problem, though, it the tripe that you are dishing out.  It tends
> >to make underpriveleged people believe that hard work will get them
> >nowhere...that they are useless to society.  That's why the government
> >should GIVE them everything...they'll never earn it on their own.
>
> This is a sideeffect that I agree with.  It DOES happen, but any guess
> as to what would happen without some of these social programs?  One
> perspective does not make a whole view.
>

Here's a guess at what would happen without some of these social programs.
The IRS could stop adding a 15% FICA tax that burdens the poor and keeps
corporations from hiring 7% more workers.  And the govt. could spend 2/3
less money so the states could tax more and apply the money where it is
needed - state school programs, state welfare programs, state health
insurance, etc.  Federal spending is useless.  And without the debt and
defecit spending needed to support these federal social programs, the
economy would have $600 Billion more to grow with.  And 100% of income
tax revenue for 1990 was $540 Billion.  The govt. would NOT need to tax
the poor OR the rich and would have a $60 Billion surplus.

> >I love how about 6 months ago, the liberals of San Diego decided to
> >"help" the homeless...they gave each of them their own garbage can
> >to sleep in!  (true)  Now...THERE's a statement of personal worth!
>
> So?  What does this have to do with anything?  I frankly dont see any
> Conservatives "helping" the homeless at all!
>

Millionaires give 84x as much money to charity as the middle class does.
Figures based upon a survey of average deductions itemized on Schedule
A of form 1040 for 1989 tax returns by the Research Institute of America.
Frankly, I don't see YOU helping anyone at all.

> >>  It all comes down to money, which in the end, is the great equalizer.  The
> >>liberals wan't to share the wealth (unfortuantely in an irresponsible manner
> >>since it's not "their" money)
> >
> >This is true.
>
> Agreed.  There are irresponsible programs out there, but dont throw out
> the baby with the bathwater.
>

We have the baby, the bathwater, the tub, the entire bathroom and mostly
the toilet.

> >>while the conseratives want the wealth to stay
> >>with the wealthy.
> >
> >This is not true.  Conservatives understand that this country got
> >prosperous by acting as a community and being productive.  The
> >Soviet Union died because of the opposite philosophy.
>
> They may not WANT the wealth to stay with the wealthy, but it sure turns
> out that way.  There's only a limited amount of money, dude, you just
> can't keep printing more.  Lots of people ARE gonna be left out, no matter how
> much you and others try to deny it.
>

Tell me about your liberal millionaires like Ted Kennedy and Jay Rockefeller.
They inherited their money and never had to work an honest day in their lives.
They are clearly trying to keep themselves in an exclusive club - the RICH.

You don't need to print money - that causes inflation.  We can generate new
wealth, and DO, all the time.  We do it by pumping oil out of the ground or
inventing new technology or new services or patents or video games or movies.

> >70% of the federal budget goes to entitlements.  The crap you
> >hear about the defence budget is just that...crap.  We desperately
> >need to stop giving $$ for nothing...allow the populace to gainb
> >some pride by earning a living.  Free up business to provide jobs.
> >Every person employed is another contributor in not only work
> >but taxes.
>
> Agreed.  Although I wouldn't call SDI and nuclear weapons testing "money well
> spent".
>

SDI is a drop in the bucket.  You can attack it on principle, but you must realize
that SDI spending is NOT funded even close to what conservatives/republicans
have asked for.  Read your constitution sometime - it calls for the federal govt.
to provide for the common defense.  And remember George Bush, my friend, because
it is due to his policies that the 35,000 Nukes built by JFK and LBJ will be cut
to 3,000 by the year 2000.

> >The answer is not higher taxes... but increasing the tax base.
> >Productivity AND governmental income thus BOTH increase.
>
> Sure, but giving money to busnesses doesnt guarantee anything.  Same as
> giving money to people doesn't.  Cooperations and the wealthy should earn
> their keep like anybody else.
>

Giving money to people is STUPID.  People consume the money by paying rent.
The rent goes to the landlord who pays his mortgage.  The bank takes that
money and puts a bunch of it into FDIC reserve accounts where it is useless
to the economy.  Give the money to a company and it can provide jobs for those
same people so they can pay the rent anyhow.  And for years, instead of a
one-time loss.

> >FDR introduced this country to social programs and it's been a faucet
> >no politician has has the guts to turn off.  It was the beginning of the
> >end.
>
> ANy guess as to WHY he implemented those programs?  hehe.
>

FDR was a fascist.  He didn't like the Supreme Court because it was conservative.
Know what he did?  He tried to add all the justices of his own choosing to make
the court in his favor.  The democratic party is the facsist party.  From 1932 to
1980, we had 3 republican presidents - and one was Ford for 2 years.  Congress
has been democratic controlled for 40 years.  The supreme court was loaded with
liberals for years and years.  All 3 branches of the govt. must be controlled
by the democrats (THAT IS FACSISM) at all costs - even if they have to self-
destruct the economy and the nation to do it.  Wake UP!

>
> --
> "THAT is a DRY turtle.  That turtle is NOT moist!"
> Ezra Story, a student at RIT, and
> eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

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