HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Judaism and Vegetarianism (LONG)
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:44:27 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Aug10.215721.25650@cs.yale.edu> engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:
>The final point, and one which I believe demands proper halachic
>investigation by those qualified, is the issue of tza'ar ba`alei
>chayim [pain to living creatures].  Modern factory farming is, on the
>whole, quite cruel to animals, and hence supporting such practices
>may, indeed, fall under the prohibition of unnecessarily causing pain
>to living creatures.  I hesitate to say anything definite on this
>issue, except that it is one that I believe the Torah community should
>deal with as soon as possible, as it involves the widespread sh'gagah
>on a possible d'Oraisa [Torah law], no small matter.

I believe there is one minor oversight here.  I always thought that
Kosher meat was not "factory farmed" as such, and that Kosher
slaughter techniques do not violate tza'ar ba'alei chaim.  I'd think
that they couldn't.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 20:05:41 GMT

>>>>>>>What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
>>>>>>>in Israel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are asking the wrong person. However I will be honest with you and tell
>>>>>>you my opinion. If you ask the question "Does a Jew have the right to live
>>>>>>in Israel?" I would answer "A Jew have the right to live anywhere in the 
>>>>>>world and so does anyone else". As far as is it important, I would say I don't
>>>>>>know simply because I am not a Jew.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, then, do I, as a Jew, have the right to live in Mecca? Do you think that
>>>>>I have the right to go up onto the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, into the
>>>>>Al-Aksa mosque, and worship in my Jewish way?
>>>>>
>>>>>Be honest.
>>>>
>>>>Well, I will be honest with you. If you tell me as a non-Jew that I am welcome
>>>>to live anywhere in the World except that I am not allowed to enter a 
>>>>synagogue or live in a certain area in Jerusalem that is sacred to Jews,
>>>>I will gladly accept that. Not allowing non-muslims to live in Mecca 
>>>>or go up onto the Temple Mount is a religious belief. You can do it if
>>>>you convert to Islam and I think you don't have plans for that. 
>>>
>>>Can I, then, say that all of Israel is sacred to Jews, and that Muslims
>>>cannot live there unless they convert to Judaism?
>>
>>Yes you can. Can I in return say that whole Jerusalem is sacred for Islam and
>>non-Moslems are not allowed into Jerusalem?  
>
>Nope. Given that Jerusalem is a subset of Israel (which you already agreed is 
>sacred to Jews, and that Muslims cannot live there), it follows that Muslims
>also cannot live in Jerusalem.
>
>
Well, Jerusalem is sacred to Christians and Moslems too. It is a subset of Israel
by your definition. It is the subset of Moslems by my definition, and it is the 
subset for Christians by Christians definition. The best solution is to share it
and I am being moderate here.


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo)
Subject: Re: Reform law versus guidelines
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.202717.4198@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky) writes...
>Bill Coleman says:
>>I was raised in a Reform household; to this day my parents eat both pork and
>>shellfish.  At no time in my life has any Reform spokesperson told me that
>>eating such things was a forbidden act.
>Nora Rivkis says:
>>Then you grew up around a very strange group of Reform Jews and I don't
>>think much of your rabbi. I'll be glad to get you a Reform spokesperson,
>>my Rabbi if you want an 'official' one, who will tell you that eating
>>such things is a forbidden act; and I've met very few people who claimed
>>to be Reform Jews who do it, and those aren't respected much.
> 
>I have to support Bill here. Growing up on Long Island in the 50s and 60s,
>I attended a huge Reform synagogue. Among the families there, eating pork
>and shellfish was no big deal. And in the religious school, we were never
>explicitly told that it was forbidden. Perhaps the strongest we got was 
>that we might want to consider forgoing these things becasue is was in the 
>Torah. But the health reasons, out-of-date point of view was also presented.
>In fact, I believe that hiring a caterer to serve pork or shellfish in
>the social hall for a family simcha would have been permitted. Reform
>has probably changed since then.
> 
>Susan SLusky
>segs@mhuxo.att.com
> 

Just another data point: I attended what passed for religious 
instruction in my parents' enormous New Jersey Reform synagogue between 
sixth and tenth grade, in the early seventies. Not once, in my recollection, 
was kashrus mentioned as a goal. I'm not sure what kind of food was 
allowed to be brought in to the social hall (I don't remember any 
pepperoni pizza parties), but there were, as far as I know, no restrictions 
on what could be served at weddings, etc., performed in other reception 
places, nor did these places have to be kosher.

Although my own preference is for Orthodox or Conservative shuls now, 
I still attend High Holiday services at my parents' synagogue because it 
is important to them and my grandparents that we spend this time together. 
I have noticed over the years that the rabbi has gotten more conservative 
(lower-case c intentional) in his views, observant in his ways, and cranky 
in his disposition. (I realize that these don't always correlate :)  ) 
So I agree with Susan that it is likely that there have been some changes 
in the religious school and other policies as well.

Sherri

Sherri Chasin Calvo
calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:21:29 PDT

In article 714073473@acf9, mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:
>aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel) writes:
>
>>I am no big fan of Clinton, but neither am I a big fan of Bush.  I am having a 
>>hard time trying to find out who to vote for, because while I think CLinton
>>will be much better for Israel, I think he will be an economic disaster for
>>the U.S.  (And visa-versa for Bush).  So, I asked for a report on Clintons
>>stand on Israel.
>
>>           BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE EAST
>
>>[...]
>
>Where did you get this information?
>
>I found it peculiar that some of the reasoning in this document was a little
>muddled.   For example, the article praises "the genius of [Israel's] people,"
>(I think that was the phrase,) and goes on to say that America has benefited
>from this genius.  In what way?  In that Israel bought so many billions of 
>dollars of American products.  How the heck does that show the genius of a 
>people?  The document also says that the arms race in the Middle East must
>be halted, and *therefore* the US should help Israel finish development of 
>the Arrow missile. Huh?

Why, dafka, "In that Israel bought so many billions of dollars..."?

How about: "In that major American corporations, like Intel, have taken
advantage of the `koakh ha-moakh' of Israel's people, and opened R&D and
production facilities, bringing to all the world the benefit of faster and
more advanced computers".

Better, no?
From: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Etiquette question: bris (sp?)
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:03:16 GMT
Reply-To: janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin

In article 29185@midway.uchicago.edu, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>In article <1992Aug3.222329.7142@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>The father is usually offerred the opportunity to perform the bris
>>himself, but in almost every case, a professional "mohel" will do it.
>>This is someone who is knowledgable in the Jewish laws concerning
>>the bris, and -- hopefully -- very experienced.  
>
>Nu, how does a mohel become very experienced?


Practice, practice, practice ...

********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb                  | (415) 336-7075     
janiceg@marvin.eng.sun.com   | "A silly message but mine own" (not Sun's!) 
********************************************************************************
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in Japan
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:50:53 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: geoffg@sco.COM (geoff galitz)

In article <1992Aug18.204058.18486@sco.COM>, geoffg@sco (geoff galitz) writes:
>	There is a book called _The Thirteenth Gate_ (I believe) that
>goes into detail about the travels of the author, in search of Judiasm
>around the world.  There is a section on Japan, and even though I
>don't remember it well, it leads me to believe that there may be more
>Jewish families than the references above indicate.  Of course, I
>could be wrong, it won't be a first.  :)

This, I believe, is the book by Tudor Parfitt, who also wrote a book on
the first rescue of the Ethiopian Jews.  He was not so much looking for
Jews around the world but for "lost tribes", a fascinating miscellany of
obscure or isolated groups from South Africa, India, Japan, Syria, and
other places.  He missed a few, but it's worthwhile reading.  Curiously
enough, the author himself is not Jewish.

If we are remembering the same book (and I'm pretty sure we are), then
yes, your memory is incorrect.  The relevant chapter was not about Judaism
in Japan as -we- understand it, but as -they- understand it.  Which is
quite a different thing.

>	The book did point out that the Japanese community is very
>impressionable, and they often emulate other cultures.  The author
>feels that many people in Japan began to emulate Jews around the
>world, partially due to some form of remorse during WWII.

Your `partially' hides a lot of history.  Interest in the Jews began after
the West was opened up.  Interest took off after certain Jewish bankers
kept the Russo-Japanese war going as revenge for the 1905 pogroms.  Plus
there was widespread belief in the PROTOCOLS, but instead of having a
phobic reaction, the attitude was how to join in and get their share.

>	The book also mentions that there is Jewish sect that believes
>Jesus Christ actually went to Japan at one point.

There are Christians (and others) with that belief, perhaps even sects,
and the book may have mentioned it--but there is no such thing as a
Jewish "sect" based on beliefs regarding JC.  THE THIRTEENTH GATE is 
about unusual claims regarding Judaism, not Christianity.

More interesting, and more relevant, for example, is the Anne Frank hero
worship group.  Extremely interesting is the common belief that the
Japanese are descended from the tribe of Zevulun.  The personal synagogue
of a prominent calligrapher, who has that belief, is featured in the book.
Naturally he wrote all the Torah scrolls himself.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Vatican, Israel and Hidden Children
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:59:54 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Aug19.213405.16760@watson.ibm.com> w2dz@watson.ibm.com (Daniel Zalik) writes:
>Could anyone supply the official text of the Catholic Curch's position
>on requirements for the recognition of the State of Israel. I realize
>that there are currently talks being held at a fairly high level regarding
>such a prospect, but I am interested not so much in the most recent events
>as in the historical context of the Vatican's refusal to recognize the
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Jewish State. I am interested in the evolution of church policy

A friend of mine in Canada heard Yosef Burg, the former minister of
religious affairs in Israels, speaking in Toronto on relations between
Israel and the Vatican.  Commenting on the Vatican's refusal to
recognise Israel, he asked what the problem was.  After all, even
though Israel has not been recognised by the Vatican for about forty
years, the Jews have not recognised the Vatican for the last 2000. :-)

ince the establishment of the modern state to the present. I would like
>to compare the Catholic relations with Israel with the Catholic
>relations with Israel's adversaries.
>
>I am also interested in the circumstances surrounding the protection offered
>Jewish children during the Nazi reign, especially by Catholics. I have been
>recently made aware that many Jewish children were taken in by Catholics, and
>subsequently saved from annihilation by the Nazis and their collaborators.
>Moreover, many (maybe most) of these children subsequently embraced
>Catholicism. In fact, I believe that the Archbishop of Paris was a
>"hidden child."
>
>Any theological, social, or political comments on these issues would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>
>
>Daniel Zalik
>
>The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect those of
>my employer.


-Danny Rothenberg
From: beninsd@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: <None>
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:11:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: memstvx1.1992Aug19.141130.3072
Distribution: world
Organization: Memphis State University

Pardon the previous post--a problem.  For kosher restautrants in
Memphis TN note: Gottleib's Gourmet--Eadst Gate Shopping Center-
meat under memphis va'ad orthdoox, avergae cost $7; and Rubinstein's deli on
Summer Avenue Between Wite Station and Mendenhall--meat under Memphis Va'ad
average $5.00.  The Memphis va'ad also supervises koseher catering in the
Peabody and other places.
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: RE: Jewish friends - help!
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:36:00 GMT
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

Today I invited our Chasan and I spoke with him about the problematic if some-
body who doesn't hold a jewish (kosher) home invites an orthodox Jew at his/her
place. He told me different ways on how to do it (all of them already mentioned
in this board). Then he said also something that astonished me: I don't need to
have paper plates if I have glass plates because  glass is always kosher. When
I asked him what if the plate was used before with treife food,for example with
pork meat, he told me that Ijust need to wash it with soap and water. In case
this is true: can somebody explain me this? 
                                                 Toda raba
                                                                 Manfredo
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Etiquette question: bris (sp?)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:12:13 GMT

In article <l8ih2kINN849@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 29185@midway.uchicago.edu, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug3.222329.7142@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>>The father is usually offerred the opportunity to perform the bris
>>>himself, but in almost every case, a professional "mohel" will do it.
>>>This is someone who is knowledgable in the Jewish laws concerning
>>>the bris, and -- hopefully -- very experienced.  
>>
>>Nu, how does a mohel become very experienced?
>
>Practice, practice, practice ...

Um, well then, how does a mohel get to Carnegie Hall?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: become jewish ?
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:33:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.161603.5361@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:

>   Also, among some Sephardim, although conversion is "recognized"
>   they consider that it is different to be born a Jew or converted to
>   a Jew (halachically or not).  I have met a couple (both non-Jews)
>   who were refused by a Sephardic rabbi and then converted into a
>   Chasidic group.  I think the rabbi was from Syria.

The latest Jerusalem Report (August 27, 1992), in an article about the
Syrian Jewish community of New York and the surrounding areas, writes:

    p34: In 1935 the community's five Arabic-speaking rabbis issued a
    fierce proclamation banning intermarriage, even to converts, so as to
    "establish an iron wall to protect our identity and religious
    integrity."  The ban was harshly renewed in 1946 by Chief Rabbi Jacob
    Kassin of the Brooklyn Syrian community, who declared: "Our community
    will never accept any converts, mail or female, for marriage."  The
    ban was renewed again as recently as 1984.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire ***		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very publishing house hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the okra
/ nysernet.org is worried.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Breaking a Glass in the Marriage Ceremony - Why?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:10:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.170211.2100@cc.gatech.edu> amir@cc.gatech.edu (Amihood Amir) writes:
>To symbolize  mourning for the destruction of the Temple.
>In the wedding of (I think) Mar bar rav Ashi the sages were
>getting too happy. So rav Ashi broke an expensive crystal in
>front of everyone. The idea was, if you all are aghast at a broken
>piece of glass, why were you so rowdy when the Temple is 
>destroyed.

I think Rabbi Maurice Lamm, in "The Jewish Way in Love and Marriage"
deplores the fact that the breaking of the glass is immediately
followed by shouts of Mazel Tov!   He recommends placing the glass
breaking inside the ceremony and not at the end.  Has anyone seen
this done?

(If it is done, how does everyone know when to shout Mazel Tov :^)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:02:02
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Aug17.192210.15830@njitgw.njit.edu>
	<RLK.92Aug17162323@underprize.think.com> <2446@israel.nysernet.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: warren@nysernet.org's message of 18 Aug 92 08:10:28 GMT

In article <2446@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

   In <RLK.92Aug17162323@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

   >but I expect them to show me the same courtesy and not push me around either.

   Who's being pushed around?

   Don't you people realize, I can post articles all day long insisting
   that each and every one of you must vote for Kibo for president, and
   you still get to decide for your self what to do?

No.  You may not advocate voting for Kibo for President.  KIBO IS
IRRELEVANT.  You must vote for Biff for President

Anyway, usenet postings don't concern me, and that didn't seem to be the
subject of the original article.  You quoted me out of context, I'm
afraid.  Read my original article
(<RLK.92Aug17162323@underprize.think.com>), including the original
quote, to see what I meant.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net, a Hypothetical Question
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 16:44:12 PDT

In article <16AUG199219072245@vms.huji.ac.il> rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
>
>A hypothetical question about advertising.
>
[...]
>
>Would this bit of information constitute, in the eyes
>of the readers, a bit of gratuitous, even egregious -
>of the worst sort - advertising?

"Gratuitous/egregious advertising"? Well, I'd say that it's more like
"direct-mail advertising" (junk mail), or, better yet, like those
techno-assholes who send *pages* and *pages* of ads/notices, unbidden,
to people's fax machines (thus tying up the line and wasting lotsa
paper).

On second-though, I guess they're the same thing.

 +------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
 | Jonathan B. Horen            |         _ ___ _ ___   _  __ _ _ _       |
 | Tech Writer/Sys Admin        |         /   / /   /   / / / / / /       |
 | Renaissance Software, Inc.   |        /   / / / /   /_/ /_/ /          |
 | email: j.horen@rs.com        |       /             /                   |
 +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: phil@lotatg.lotus.com (Phil Ritari)
Subject: Re: michael lerner (was Re:  Why I gave up on my People)
Organization: Lotus Development Corp.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:53:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug4.165623.15009@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov  
(Elya Kapelyan) writes:
> 	Among the issues the article raised was the _opposition_ of the NJA
> to Jewish emigration from the Soviet Union, its tendency to blame all the 
> problems in the ME on Israel, and so on ad nauseum. 


IMHO this is a rather distorted representation of the views of New Jewish  
Agenda (with which I have no affiliation).