From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: dressage bitting
Date: 24 Nov 1992 00:59:14 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

I can just see everyone out there going "Oh no, not again!"

In article <1eh3hkINN6h8@rave.larc.nasa.gov> patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
> [...]. See the problem the dressage committee has not
> resolved? It's because they don't know what you know, which is that
> a trot is not comfortable at all to sit on a true "green horse."

At what level of training should dressage competition begin?  Is 
Training Level only for riders on inexeperienced horses, or is it
also for inexperienced rides on horses with mileage?  What about
the dressage tests for combined training?  What about the role of
dressage re-training for older horses?   What should the AHSA be
doing with its dressage competition rules?
 
>[...] "taking
> a horse's balance in hand" means that you can fade back on their
> balance to place them on their haunches. 
>[...]
> A strict de la Gueriniere follower would say yes, I say no.
> Can you influence a horse's balance without influencing their
> head carriage at all? Again, think about a *good* western reining
> or cutting horse. Their hocks are about 9 inches off the ground
> when they're working a cow, right? But there is absolutely
> no attempt to shorten their frame into collection. (Now
> there is a horse working from behind!)

Roundness, balance and collection are all related, but slightly
different. I think  we may be having some difficulty with semantics
here.  When you say balance what do you mean?

When I say balance, I mean by it a change in the way the horse
dynamically distributes his weight and the weight of his rider
that is sustained and controlled (by the horse).  In other words, a
horse which is rearing has his weight transferred to the rear end, but
it's not a stable situation and I wouldn't call it balance.  A horse
executing the levade IS displaying balance because the movement is
controlled and sustained, even if not indefinitely.

But balance in this sense can be displayed on a long or loose rein,
it does not require a short frame or collection.  It does require
a certain degree of roundness (as opposed to hollowness) as the 
hindquarters come underneath and support some of the weight.  This
affects the horse's neck to some extent, but not necessarily
his "head carriage" -- I guess it depends on what
you mean by "head carriage"!

I don't have any good pictures of cowhorses handy, but from
memory it seems to me that they do exhibit a certain degree of 
roundness through their back and neck, even if it isn't collection
or a "frame" in the sense a dressage rider would tend to think
of.  

Can this be created entirely with the hand?  How?

> It wouldn't have been Xenophon (unless there's another Xenophon
> that I'm not aware of)

You are quite right, it wasn't.  
  
> They were never military maneuvers. They take great concentration
> on the part of both horse and rider, which would have been in short
> supply during battle.

I'm not sure this argument holds up.  Dressage has much in common with
the oriental martial arts, both in terms of the importance of balance
and the high degree of concentration required.

Many authors speak of the origin of these movements as being military.
How do you explain the capriole (especially the kick out behind) if
it is neither military in origin nor a trick?

In "Riding Towards the Light" Paul Belasik says,
   "There is another element of dressage that can not be glossed
   over. It is the pervasive connection is has with war, warriors
   and violence, primarily because of the horse's historic role
   in battle.  At the Spanish Riding School in Vienna some of the
   most difficult movements practised today are living baroque
   representations of the evasive moves in battle -- specialised
   kicks in the air, controlled rears and so on.  At Saumur in
   France the famed Cadre Noir still perform ritualised battle
   movements in unison.  In the bull rings of Portugal,
   exquisite horses perform spins, lifts and passes with technical
   pefection, not technically perfect under the luxury of
   exhibition, but because improper execution may mean death."

(BTW, this is a good book I've just been reading, and very germane
to the discussion at hand.  It is basically a book about sorting out
the apparant conflicts in dressage theory and practice.  The author
seems to be extremely well read and thoughtful, if opinionated and
idiosyncratic -- he'd do very well on this newsgroup!)

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to understand
what the arguments are!

  Debbie
  deblev@ipac.caltech.edu