HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine)
Subject: Old Genesis/New Genesis: (Was Re: Will the real Genesis please stand) up? 
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:08:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.211252.2121@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott  
McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
> jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson) writes:
> 
> People who divide Genesis into pieces are only hurting themselves --
> Genesis is a seamless whole, a continuum. Only when you start
> arbitrarily dividing them do you find any faults, and those are
> created by the way you view Genesis.
> 
> Some people don't seem to like the love songs, or the ballads, or
> something in the Genesis repertoire 
> 
> Scott

Phooey.  Collins lyrics changed radically (as the music started slipping)  
and started to mirror his life through the period he was getting divorced.    
No mo' No mo' please!

I also think that the drumming went downhill when Thompson the plodder  
started drumming for Phil live.

FLAME ON
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis
From: verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:45:43 EDT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Jul21.221410.10981@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>sussman@linus.mitre.org (Stephen H. Sussman) writes:
>
>: What do you Genesis fans other there think was the album where Steve
>: Hackett was at his best.  
>
>Seconds out & Live -- they're all better live, and Steve is no exception.
>His Firth of Fifth really excells.
^^^^  ?

>Scott

I have read Genesis' interview where Banks says that he wrote FoF for
Foxtrot, but Collins disliked it and it was rewritten for SEbtP by 
Banks and Rutherford. BTW, Hackett himself did not like Seconds Out very
much. He said that he quit Genesis after hearing the mixes of Squonk
from Seconds, because (he thought) it was terrible.

Misha.
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis videos
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:38:09 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

sjm8118@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
:      Are any pre-1977 Genesis videos available through legal sources?

Nope. 

Unless you count "videos" of Trick songs.

:  Also,
: is the Genesis documentary out in the music stores worth purchasing? 

Yes, it is.

Scott
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Gentle Giant
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:53:41 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <elambert.712352677@qualcom> elambert@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Eber Lambert) writes:
>David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know anything about this band?  I have "Three Friends" on
>>CD, but was a little disappointed with it.  I heard they were very much
>>like Genesis and ELP.  "Three Friends" has some good songs, but at
>>times it is kind of weak.  What albums would you suggest are their
>>best?
>>Thanks,
>>Dave
>
>I would suggest "Power and the Glory" or "Octupus". If they dont grab you 
>give up.

Many people have suggested the live album as a excellent introduction.  Not
only does it cover several of their albums but the performances are 
excellent.  Many consider Three Friends to be a bit down on the list of
Gentle Giants "best".  I'll second Octopus.  Overall I feel it's their best
album and I've seen many that agree.  I would also put "Free Hand" high on
the list for new listeners of GG.  It is quite accessible yet still represents
their sound, is not quite as pop as later releases, and contains some really
good material. 

>
>final tip: They grow on you. Try several listens.
>
It's amazing how accurate their album entitled "Aquiring the Taste" is.

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Dead Can Dance
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:30:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul29.044008.6260@leland.Stanford.EDU> orpheus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Owen Duncan Smith) writes:
|But I disagree completely with those that say we should only discuss the more
|"esoteric," "modern," or whatever bands, instead of ELP, Yes, Marillion,
|Genesis, etc.  C'mon, they're classics!  And I'm still relatively new at
|this progressive stuff.

Since I've made a similar suggestion I thought I'd better clear up my postition.
Yes, ELP, Genesis, and Marillion are indeed amoung the classics of the genre.
I am certainly not advocating that they should not be discussed here.  They
certainly belong on a Essential Progressive Rock Albums list.  I think we've 
seen that there are quite a few people that are very familiar with these bands
and could discuss them at length.  *ADDITIONALLY*, I think that there are
many other progressive rock bands that could/should be discussed.  Perhaps
not in the level of detail that the classics are discussed.  I think that
many of us a progressive rock fans because we have a propensity to not listen
to the SOS and will actively search out new bands in the genre.  Maybe that
isn't true for everyone but, if true, I would think that this group would
have much more diversity in the music we discuss (within the genre) than
other groups which have focused on a genre.


-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: David.A.Wolk@dartmouth.edu (David A. Wolk)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:49:49 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Jul26.183056.22694@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Ryan.J.Victor@dartmouth.edu (Ryan J. Victor) writes:

> But as times changed, so
> their music evolved.

What makes all music great is the fact that it is timeless.  Although I
truly like the new stuff, a lot of it has lost the magic that made
Genesis such a special band.  I do agree that they are evolving to do
what interests them the most musically, but that does not necessarily
make it just as good as what they have done.  If we can really label
music as good or bad, then it makes no sense to say that people are
wrong when they say that they don't like something since, by
definition, their tastes decide.  Music is about feeling.  If something
grabs you like Supper's Ready, and you feel chills running up your
spine every time you hear it, then that piece has moved you and is
sucessful.  Although I feel this with some of the newer stuff, it is
not nearly as often and seems less spontaneous.  To defend a band for
changing with the times is a misconception of the purpose of music or
any art form.  Art is emotional without any care for how modern it is. 
All great works have survived over time because of something inside of
it which transcends.  Your transient view of Genesis takes away from
the greatness of some of their earlier works.
From: ptt00@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  179  Peter Thelen)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Genesis: What everybody misses
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:14:48 GMT
Reply-To: ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Jul26.223043.27235@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Ryan.J.Victor@dartmouth.edu (Ryan J. Victor) writes:

>I can't believe the debate that has swept this network! And so
>one-sided! Genesis this and Genesis that; old and new; good and
>garbage; Gabriel and Collins. Relax, most of you have got it all wrong.

Sorry, but only our ears know the truth....

>However, instead they became the intensely exciting band that they are
>to this day. What most don't realize is that since the beginning,
>nothing has changed except personnel and their writing methods. Genesis
>has always written for its current audience.

Then why does much of this "current audience" also feel that the older
stuff is far better than the new. Remember, a lot of the people who
posted stated that their first Genesis album was from the newer post-
DUKE period, but never really thought much of the band until they
heard the older material.Do their ears lie to them ?

>                                               In the seventies, they
>were the cutting edge with their incredibly complex, layered sound and
>their oh so British flair for the fantastic. But as times changed, so
>their music evolved. This is why they are the sole progressive rock
>band to survive the punk era, escaping the label of being antiquated by
>becoming leaner to suit the times. 

Except their music did not evolve, it DE-volved, unravelled, and became
common sounding. I'll agree that they still have a unique sound, one can
pick Collins' crooning out anywhere...  To say they are the sole
progressive band to survive the punk era is a bit of an overstatement,
they survived, yes, but not without selling out and turning their backs
on the fans that got them to the point they were.
Yes, the band can do as they like, but that doesn't mean the fans have
to enjoy and support the disposable product they churn out now more than
the finely crafted music that used to carry the same name.


peter (ptt00@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com)  "The Lighthouse Keeper"
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gtas1@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Terrance Stedman)
Subject: Re: New Brand-X CD
Organization: State University of New York -- Institute of Technology
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:25:48 GMT

	Speaking of Brand X, has anyone else seen how tasteless the cover
of the Rated X boot is?  The XXX porn shots that frame the cover could have
been left off if you ask me.  Then again, no one did!
-- 
 I ) I I <~ I_I   Terry Stedman
 I \ I_I _> I I   Internet: gtas1@pool.info.sunyit.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: weikl@ee3ds1.ilt.fhg.de (Dr.B.Weikl)
Subject: Re. Gentle Giant
Reply-To: weikl@ilt.fhg.de
Organization: ilt-fhg
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 11:41:05 GMT


Hi everybody!

Gentle Giant was my favourite all over the 70's. If there was ever a 
progressive band, it was Gentle Giant. Listen to their music today, it's 
still upto date.

Their gigs where superp too (I think I saw them 5 times).

The discography (from memory):

Gentle Giant
Aquiring the Taste
Three Friends
Octopus
Free Hand
In a Glass House
The Power and the Glory
Interview
The Missing Peace
Playing the Fool (Live)

I've seen the first four on CD, the rest not. My favourites are Free Hand, 
The Power and the Glory, In a Glass House, and Interview.

Btw, does anybody know what these inspired musicians did after Gentle Giant
separated and what they are doing now?

Bruno
--
=====================================================
# Dr. Bruno Weikl                                   #
# Lehrstuhl fuer Lasertechnik, RWTH Aachen          #
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik#
# Steinbachstr. 15, D-5100 Aachen, Germany          #
# InterNet     : weikl@ilt.fhg.de                   #
# x400         : C=DE;A=DBP;P=FHG;O=ILT;S=weikl     #
# P.S.I.       : PSI%45050212501::weikl             #
# HEPNET       : 13533::52714::weikl                #
# Phone        : +49/241/8906-134, -0,              #
# Fax          : +49/241/8906-121                   #
# Telex        : 832267 fhilt d                     #
====================================================#
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: sjm8118@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Genesis videos
Reply-To: sjm8118@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:19:20 GMT

     Are any pre-1977 Genesis videos available through legal sources?  Also,
is the Genesis documentary out in the music stores worth purchasing?  It seems
to have many interesing tracks fom their earlier years ("Hogweed", etc) but do
we have to listen to the band members reminicing over the performances and 
endure butchered footage of the Gabriel era while they show an hour of 
"Invisible Touch" videos which, I like many others saw a million times on MTV
(Before I realized that MTV is absolute drek, except the little excerpt from
King Crimson's "Sleepless" played before MTV news.).  

                                      Just Wondering,
                                      Scott McDonough
From: jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu (Kevin J. Jarnot)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Apology
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:54:14 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Language Analysis Center

In article <1992Jul29.033825.3557@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) writes:
>I think we should rename this newsgroup:
>
>alt.music.1970.style.prototypical.blathering.keyboards.progressive.and.not.
>80s.or.90s.pseudo.alternative.crap.manufactured.by.talentless.morons.
>and.marketed.by.equally.moronic.record.companies.to.pimply.high.school.
>students
>


Well, it IS a bit long, but it fits! :-)

Couldn't have said better myself...

Kevin

-- 
Kevin J. Jarnot (jarnot@kin.lap.upenn.edu)      |  
Lead Programmer/Analyst/Keyboardist             | "The monkey-boys are evil -
Univ. of Pennsylvania Language Analysis Center  |  Lord Whorfin is supreme..."
3700 Market St, Suite 202  Phila, PA 19104      |
From: oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: New Live Album by Kansas
Date: 26 Jul 1992 00:23:31 GMT
Organization: Washington University Astrophysics
NNTP-Posting-Host: fermi.wustl.edu

There IS a new live album by Kansas, called "Kansas - Live at the Whiskey".
It is being released by a company called Intersound.  I found my copy at
Streetside Records a couple of weeks ago, although from what I understand
distribution is spotty and the album is hard to find generally.  Worth
looking for, though, IMO.

Scott Oser
oser@fermi.wustl.edu
From: daniel@usna.navy.mil (Walter K. Daniel)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: ILUVATAR, Baltimore prog. band concert
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:45:31 GMT
Distribution: dc
Organization: US Naval Academy

There's a relatively new progressive rock band in Baltimore that local 
readers of the newsgroup may enjoy.  These guys have been working on 
original material for years, but didn't play live until May 25 at Max's on 
Broadway in Fells Point under the name "Mr. E" (which has been replaced by 
ILUVATAR).  I was at the show and it was great!  What amazed me was that 
even though they were the second of three bands, they got to play almost 
90 minutes and the owner of the club practically had to pull the plug on 
them.

Their music is melodic progressive rock.  To me, it has the melody and 
sensibility of some of Sting's solo work (which is really progressive in 
spite of its popularity), the dynamics of Camel, and some uptempo stuff 
not unlike Fish-era Marillion.  WTMD, the Towson State radio station, has 
played some of their material on their local music show.  Unfortunately, 
the band does not have a tape available, but they might do a CD with a 
small label soon.

ILUVATAR will play at Max's again on July 27, 1992.  You can get tickets 
from the band for $3 and a SASE from the band (address below).  They will 
also play a benefit show on September 20 at the Bryn Mar School for Girls 
in Roland Park, but details are not yet available on that one.

To contact the band, write:  ILUVATAR, 8821 Jasper Lane, Baltimore, MD  
21234

[I'm sending this to the "dc" distribution on netnews.  Is anyone in 
Baltimore getting this?  How about the Maryland suburbs of DC?  Is there a 
distribution for the state of Maryland?  I'd appreciate some email to let 
me know where this posting went.  Thanks!]

***********************************
Asst Prof Walter K. Daniel
Aerospace Engineering Dept.
US Naval Academy
daniel@usna.navy.mil
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: gse9k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Scott Evans)
Subject: Kitten
Reply-To: thrash@virginia.edu (Scott Evans)
Organization: or lack thereof
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:23:09 GMT


Just thought everyone would like to know I got a kitten.

Her name is Kayleigh.


s
From: c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Dead Can Dance
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:40:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

Say, has anyone heard of this group?

Based on the responses to Genesis, Kansas, ELP, etc., probably not.

I'd say it is pretty interesting music.  

Give a few guesses at the type of music they play.
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: Re: Dead Can Dance
From: TZELGOV@vm.bgu.ac.il
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:34:41 GMT
Organization: BGU University

In article <1992Jul28.074043.18030@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA) writes:

>
>Say, has anyone heard of this group?
>
>Based on the responses to Genesis, Kansas, ELP, etc., probably not.
>
>I'd say it is pretty interesting music.
>
>Give a few guesses at the type of music they play.

    Well, I heard some completely vocal piece off some album. Other than that,
I have no idea what they do. Of course, you could elaborate on the subject if
you feel like it...
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: e: What are best albums of Genesis?
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:13:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.152004.21225@linus.mitre.org> rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.235131.20528@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
>orpheus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Owen Duncan Smith) writes:
>> >> >>> >> > >> >But me... I'm just a lawn mower
>> >> >>> >> > >> I can tell by the way you walk.
>> >> >>> >> > >It must be a draw...  there's no one left alive.
>> >> >>> >> > So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
>> >> >>> >> The Pied Piper takes his children underground
>> >> >>> >Mild mannered supermen are held by kryptonite
>> >> >>> And the foolish virgins giggle with their bodies' glowing bright
>> >> >>Amongst the weeds and slimey waters
>> >> >we're gonna make it right - tonight, tonight, tonight   oh, oh
>> >> And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
>> >See me stretch for God's elastic acre
>> A flower?!?
>>
>He places the number into the tube 

It's a yellow, plastic, scooby-doob

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: PROPOSAL: AN END TO PROPOSALS
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:31:25 GMT


The subject says it all.

Anil Prasad
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: rseguine@buckeye.mitre.org (Roy SeGuine)
Subject: Re: e: e: What are the best albums of Genesis?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:18:34 GMT

> Interesting.  This suggests that you regard the departure of Gabriel as
> the "end" of Genesis.

That's about the size of it. Although I have to admit "Trick" was a  
valient effort and I have enjoyed occasional post-Gabriel offerings.
---
> "Duke" was the last album I was really impressed with.

Bwah ha ha ... BWAH HA HA HA... Stop it, you're killing me!
---

At least we agree on the "And Then There Was Phil" album. 

---
Roy SeGuine  NeXT Cyberspace Architech 
*many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased* Dan12:4
	  	
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson)
Subject: Re: Will the real Genesis please stand up? 
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:11:59 GMT


My first Genesis album was "Invisible Touch."  I really disliked Phil's
super-mellow-pop lvoe songs on the album (track 4 and 8, which I always
skipped).  LOVED The Brazilian, Domino, Land of Confusion.  Mild dislike 
for Tonight, tonight, tonight.  The rest of the songs, I was fairly
positive about.  I tried a couple of the other later Genesis albums
about that time, and just couldn't get into them.  Got the self-titled
album, liked a couple of the tracks, sold it.  Much later, bought it again
having decided I did like about half of it after all.  

Then my classic-rock loving friend saw what I had and said "Hey, you're
listening to the wrong stuff (he also spied my copy of 90125, no other
Yes at that point), try Foxtrot."  So I did.  Awesome.  Later, I borrowed
Selling England... and Trick of the Tail.  Both awesome.  All the tracks,
not just half.  So I'd have to cast my vote with "Old" Genesis.  I can't
say where the cutoff would be, but sometime after ATotT and before Genesis.

							John Stimson
							Harvey Mudd College
From: brett@barney.esl.com (Brett Crockett)
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
Subject: New Release
Keywords: Progressive
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:03:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sound Labs

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
New Release:
---------------
Artist:   The Torn
Title:    Child
Number:   DED-1003
Songs:    Fall Down, New & Borrowed, Gabriel's New Horn,
          The Longest Day, Child, Tomorrow, I Don't Understand,
          Second Thoughts, Cripen Day, Circle the Sun.
Label:    Dog Eat Dog Records
Address:  P.O. Box 111-535
          Campbell, CA 95011-1535


I have just run across a new, inde release by a new California,
Bay Area based trio called the Torn (bass, guitar, drums.)
The disc features 10 excellent cuts that are in the modern/alternative
realm.  Each song features tight harmonies, excellent musicianship,
poignent lyric and strong hooks.  On top of it all, the production is
top-notch (not your typical grunge independent release type of sound.)

One reviewer (whose review convinced me to pick up the disc) wrote:

"I love this disc... Featuring melodies that stick in the back of
your head (dammit, even when you're trying to sleep) and lyrics that
actually make you actually THINK, I'm reminded of the energy and
exuberance of a young, fresh Police.  ...this is music to sink your
teeth into."

The disc (if you can't find it in your local stores) can be ordered
at:
       Dog Eat Dog Records
       (408)-236-2148

or at the address above. I just gave them my name and address and
they were happy to oblige.

P.S. It's not the easiest disc to find, but incredibly worth
     the effort.


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive
From: jstimson@jarthur.claremont.edu (John Stimson)
Subject: Re: Music of the 90's
Summary: Dream Theater = progressive?
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:50:55 GMT

I just bought the new Dream Theater CD based on all the positive
opinions posted here in a.m.p.  The general comments were along the
lines of "a mix between progressive and modern metal, something like
a cross between Rush, Kansas, and Queensryche".

They're more like a cross between Queensryche and Mettallica,
with a penchant for obscure, "deep-sounding" lyrics.  They played
a few scattered good 5-second riffs, but none of them fit together
into a coherent whole.  Queensryche is far more progressive than
these guys.  And if you don't like the harsh sound of QR, then
stay the hell away from Dream Theater.

Is track one really supposed to cut off right in the middle
of a measure?

						John Stimson
						Harvey Mudd College
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive