From: hgarcia@sw.stratus.com (Henry Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Liefield Throws Tantrum
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:55:18 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <BtBJDy.48o@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, teo33398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doctor Zero) writes:
> hgarcia@sw.stratus.com (Henry Garcia) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> >	This is a general comment on the recent (or perhaps not so recent)
> >	Rob Liefield discussions. It seems to me people are taking the 
> >	'destruction' or the ruining (sp?) of these characters and blowing 
> >	things way out of proportion.  Come on, these are comic books, it's 
> >	not like they really mean anything.  They are supposed to be for 
> >	entertainment.
> 	
> 	What in the hell is that supposed to mean???  Comic books are no less
> viable an art form than books or movies or music.  Just because they have,
> for the last 50 years, mostly been musclebound morons in tights beating the 
> spit out of each other doesn't mean that the medium is limited to that.
> Saying of comic books, it's "not like they really mean anything" just shows
> that, like most people, you've fallen in to the narrow tunnel-vision of
> thinking that comic books are and will always be kid stuff.
> 	As for the ruining of the characters, I think it most certainly IS
> something to get mad at.  For god's sake he destroyed our DREAMS!!!  He 
> took something that was once good and twisted it into a stranger, something
> that repulsed us.  How would you feel if a friend of yours whom you had known
> and liked all your life suddenly changed into a real *sshole one day, with
> no explanation why???  That's what happened with New Mutants.  That's why
> he ticks me off.
> 
> >	 Admittedly, some people may think that his work does 
> >	not entertain them in the least, and thats fine.  I don't think we 
> >	should linch the guy.  If you really don't like his attitude, his work,
> >	or whatever, just ignore him. If he really is that bad he will drop off
> >	into the void. 
> 
> 	Sure.  Like Elvis.  And Donny Osmond.  And Vanilla Ice.  They come,
> make their splash, set the industry back a decade or two and THEN they 
> disappear.  The sad thing is that Rob will NOT be forgotten.  (BTW, as often
> as the word "lynching" has been used in this series of threads, you could at
> least spell it right.  I'd suggest looking in the OED2.)
> 
> >       We each have our opinions and they are just that, opinions.
> >	I shouldn't be made to change them because someone else believes
> >	otherwise.  Nor would I hope to change someone elses opinions.
> 
> 	If you didn't want to change anyone's opinions, you wouldn't have
> written the article.  But seriously...
> 	I think Rob sucks.  That's okay;  I just don't buy his stuff.  But
> I will definitely not tolerate anyone calling him one of the comic's greats.
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Hand in hand is the only way to land..."    The Cure
> 					    "The Lovecats"
> finger teo33398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu for the extended remix .sig...


	I DID not want to get into a flame war.  I think that my post was 
probably as neutral as you can get on this subject.  And I am not flaming you
when I say that you have totally twisted the meaning of my post. Perhaps I was 
not completely clear.  I will explain.

First 
I said       '...it's not like they really mean anything.  They are supposed to
	      be for entertainment.'

And you say  ' Comic books are no less viable an art form than books or movies
		or music.'

When did I ever say they weren't?  I think they are a viable art form.  The point
being that they are for ENTERTAINMENT.  Just as books, movies AND music are (IMHO)


you say, quoting me '...mean anything" just shows that, like most people, you've
		     fallen in to the narrow tunnel-vision of thinking that 
		     comic books are and will always be kid stuff'

This is a pretty far reach for such a simple statement.  I still maintain that 
comics books are for entertainment (for adults too, to make that perfectly
clear).  I do not think that they are JUST kid stuff.  I consider myself a 
relatively mature (I prefer this to the more generalized adult/kid) person and I 
read comics.

paraphrasing you, you say he destroyed your 'dreams', and 'twisted ' a good book
		  into something strange that 'repulsed' you.  

		  And then you bring into it an analogy of real life about 
		  one of my friends turing into an '*sshole' for absolutely
		  no reason.

I don't believe you can mix the 2 situations.  One is real life, while the other 
is simply an imaginary world, and a group of invented characters.  In the real
life situation you propose, I WOULD be upset about this, perhaps there is
some personal reason why he/she is acting this way, maybe there is something I 
can do to help.  But you cannot compare the two. If you don't grasp the concept
of real vs. imaginary, I don't think a couple of posts in a news group will help.


You also state 'If you didn't want to change anyone's opinion, you wouldn't have
		written the article.'

If my article changed anyone's opinion, they must be pretty easily swayed.  I 
do not believe I clearly stated any one prefrence. So which way were they swayed?
If anything, I would have hoped to sway people to be a little more tolerant and 
a little less prone to attacks.  

Lastly, you say '...Rob sucks. ...I will not tollerate anyone calling him one
		 of the comic's greats.'

I think you have the right to your opinion.  But to think that everyone should 
share your opinion is wrong.  And I don't believe that I ever called him great.


I'm not going to even get into the music refrence.  And as for my spelling, I was
not aware that this was a spelling class, I didn't know I was being graded.  I'll
uses websters next time :>



I apologize to anyone who feels I am wasting band width.  I didn't feel I could
leave this with the meaning of my post twisted as it was.  I also included the 
responders entire message so that anyone reading this would not take anything
I responded to out of the context the poster wrote it in.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc