HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:42:23 -0500 
From: "Christopher L. Morrow" <cm43+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
	<1992Nov21.090926.2920@aber.ac.uk>

perhaps the net has missed something int he power/grace/technique argument?
I think that what really helps is a good power to weight ratio.  Being 6'8"
and 220 pounds, I have a severe disadvantage in this category, but a girl that 
was climbing with us for a while was about 5'2" and maybe 110 pounds, but it 
was solid rock-hard muscle.  She was able to pull off some really fantastic moves
because she was light and about as strong as I was.  She also had the best 
technique I have ever seen! 

The power-to-weight ratio is an important factor, as you get bigger you have to
be much stronger than a smaller person woudl have to be.  Sort of like think of
me (220 lbs) lifting my body wieght for thirty seonds, and then think of her lifting
her bodyweight for the same amount of time, for her it is relatively the same weight, but she is doing less work.(and I do realize that this is not the proper defini
tion of work, but hey, it makes a point!)
From: mbrinker@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Brinker)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Wilderness First Aid... The "REAL" thing
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:05:38 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Summary: Wilderness Class


If anyone is interested in a SERIOUS mountaineering oriented first aid class there is one in L.A.

The valley chapter of the American Red Cross offers a class twice a year
called A.F.A.M.O. (Advanced First Aid Mountaineering Oriented)

By the time you finish (3.5 months) you will have put in more than 250 hours
learning EXTENDED medical care first-aid, charting, improvasational splinting
and rescue, helicopter loading, extrication, anatomy, Altitude, OB/GYN,
improv transport, water rescue, and much moore.

This class is specifically designed for the mountaineer who is three days in
and happens across a worse case scinerio, or post-disaster treatment where
help is NOT available for 72 hours.  It includes 20 hours or Emergency
Room work at a class 4 Trauma center as well as 5 practicals which are
held on the side of mountains and set-up by make-up experts.

I went into the class with little to none first-aid experience and after I
finished I don't think there is a situation that I wouldn't know the best
procedure for providing the most help.

This class covers a lot more than an EMT class, because an EMT class is generally a "load and go" situation where they have all the resources to stabilize
and transport their patients, where the AFAMO class is improvisional extended
care.

If you lead or guide trips I would definately recommend a class like this.

For more info call the Valley Red Cross at 818.376-1700 and talk to Chad
Smith or someone in health Education

From: scochran@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Steve Cochran)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:27:59 GMT
Subject: Re: climbing films
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

Along the same lines - Is there still a Telluride Mountainfilm festival?  I 
saw the films when they came to Berkeley one year.  Pretty good stuff including
an ascent of Cerro Torre (some American team), etc.

SC
From: drisinge@oracle.uucp (David Risinger)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Hueco Tanks State Park temporarily closed
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:16:35 GMT
Distribution: rec.climbing
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores, CA  94065
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


Just wanted to put the word out.  Hueco Tanks , Texas was Closed on 11/11/92
until at least 11/26/92 to ALL ACTIVITIES.

Vandals spray painted overtop of ancient Indian pictographs a couple of 
weeks ago.  It appears that the decision to close the park was made around 
8am and EVERYONE had to be out of the park by 5pm.  The park will use this 2 
weeks to decide how to provide access to the abundant natural resources, while
providing security to the priceless history that abounds.

It was unclear at the time, just what the future of climbing and other
activities might be in Hueco Tanks State Park.

If anyone has a trip currently scheduled to Hueco, I strongly suggest that you
contact the park office as well as the local climbing organizations to
ascertain the current status of the park.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Risinger        | drisinge@us.oracle.com
                     |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kochte@stsci.edu
Subject: 'Vital' stats (was: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura))
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:42:26 GMT

Writes tpm@ecs (TP Monks) in an earlier posting:

>All # pullups were pretty high - either those who are less dedicated
>to the bar were afraid of subsequent blackmail, or you're all a bunch of
>muscle-bound hunks.  That is apart from the one respondant who climbs
>F6c and can't do a single pullup.  I can only assume that there are
>some pretty smooth slabs out there!

>A surprising but definite trend has emerged:  The more pullups you can 
>do the harder you will be able to climb!
>There weren't really enough responses to plot, or analyse ( a few 
>people were keen to see regression analysis, variance, SD, etc etc :-),
>so that's about it, unless some more people mail...

>If you feel inclined, please mail me your vital climbing statistics, heck,
>its only for fun!

(can't seem to email you, so....)

Okay. Don't have an 'official' pull-up bar handy anywhere around, so used the
'doorjamb' around our one elevator (can get 3/4 of the length of my fingers on
it). Got in 5 pull-ups. Ooooooo!!!!  This from not having done ANY kind of
activity in nearly a month! :-(

I can usually flash any 5.9; and the occasional (*easy*) 5.10.....(the
non-overhanging 5.10s, usually; though come to think of it, I have played on
one overhanging 5.10 near here that I usually can get after one fall.....)

(okay, so I'm a climbing-wuss)

Statistics (as they stand now): pull-ups--> 5 (I know I can do 10 or so when
						I'm "in shape")
				Climb (flash, 95%)--> 5.9 (tr)
				Best lead-->  5.8 (on-sight flash; red-point)
				2nd 'best' lead--> 5.9 (pro already placed;
							pink-point)
				Best top-rope--> 5.10 (easy)

Do what you will with these...  :-)

Not a muscle-bound 'hunk', and not likely ever to be,
Mark
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: learning to lead
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:59:36 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <168A17A5C.WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> WILLS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com
(Cheyenne Wills) writes:
>The one major problem with this though is that some of the people who
>have come to expect bolts for the entire route start deciding to
>do first ascents.  Since they don't have the experience with natural
>gear placements and hanging out to mess around with some small wires
>and such, they tend to revert back to their element; place a bolt.

Not only that, but you can place crummy bolts, too.

Now where's my LMU?.... 8^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject: Re: training, pullups
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:04:58 GMT

In article <Nov21.005809.30390@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>In article <1992Nov21.000629.27184@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu) writes:
>>Meant to post this a while back but....
>>
>>*And* many studies
>>have shown that the most effective way to increase  this "1 repetition maximum"
>>(1 RM) is to do sets to exhaustion of 3-6 repetitions. 
>
>Is this also true of various other muscle groups, legs for instance, or
>only pullups?
>

It's true for muscles in general. In fact, I'm sure the tests/studies didn't
involve pullups, but rather some other lift(s) which is(are) easier to control
(for cheating).

Aside from "lab" studies, this approach (heavy weight, low reps) has been
standard practice with competetive lifters for years. 

While strength/power is only one contributor to climbing ability, it is a
component where diligent training can result in substantial gains. Again,
according to my friend, an untrained person can increase their VO_2-MAX
(primary factor in endurance) at most a fraction through training (~20%, as I
recall), whereas they can increase their strength hundreds of %. And the
congenital variation among individuals in VO_2-MAX is substantially more than
the increase achievable from training. Bottom line: world-class distance
runners are born, not made. This is not to say than serious training is
irrelevant, but that the idea of an arbitrary person making themself into a
world-class runner via "hard work and dedication" is mostly a myth. Similarly,
with sprinters, the rate at which a muscle fiber contracts is pretty much
unaffected by training. Thus the top speed of a sprinter can't be substantially
improved. The start, on the other hand, which involves more strength and
technique, can be improved. 

My own general theory regarding athletes in general who are touted as having
made themselves through hard work, is that one would probably find that fairly
early in life (by the end of high school) they were one of the best athletes
(in some sense) in their group, without an exceptional difference in training.
Thus, rather than picking a sport and pouring everything into it, one should
identify one strengths and develop them. I think people do this naturally,
since people tend to like what they are good at. Having done this, hard work
and dedication are what separates people of comparable natural ability.

Well, I've gotten off the track a bit, but...

-Steve Strickland
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Difficulty Rating Scale for Ice Climbs?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:20:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov23.213053.21253@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>Which difficulty scale is most commonly used for rating ice climbs?  FREEDOM
>indicates that it's Sole's.  Is there a listing with difficulty data for the
>more popular ice climbs in Colorado?  I don't recall ever seeing one.

I don't know what its called, but its the scale that rates most stuff
between III and VI, with V being your typical fairly difficult veritcal
water ice.

Jeff Lowe's book rates many of the popular Colorado climbs.  There also was
an issue of Rock and Ice many (5?) years ago with an article on ice climbing
in several western states, including CO.

Does anybody know anything about the ice up around Rifle?  If so, please
reply via email. 

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: jbreslin@cs.strath.ac.uk (John A Breslin IE90)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Munros: Bynack More
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:39:13 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.
Originator: jbreslin@lister-05


 Well folks, here is another wee posting for all the munro-baggers and ex-pats
who read this group.

BYNACK MOR : 1090m (3??? feet); meaning obscure

 This one is a bit of a long pull - with a fair walk-in. There are several
ways to do it: eg from Strath Nethy, or from the Car Park in Coire na Ciste
(we did it the latter way).

 Weather - bloody freezing. In fact on arrival at the Car Park, it would have
probably been more sensible to go straight back down to pub in Aviemore.
Anyway the route was as follows. From the Car park head E over the col at 737m
(over the ridge from Cairn Gorm plateau). However one must head back down the
other side, so all that lovely height you gained is lost. Once over, ford the
Nethy - maybe difficult in spate - and head up the highest thing in fromt of
you to get to Bynack Beg 964m. Then its just a hop, skip and a jump to Bynack
More. However once there, you still have to get back to the car - the same way.
So that's around another 2000 ft of descent and ascent and descent again to
get over the col. The snow cover was light as it was being blown all over the
place (MAKE A NOTE JOHN - WEAR GOGGLES THE NEXT TIME !), although there were
drifts in places. On the way back beware of herds of ravenous reindeer (!)
 All in, the trip was around 6 hours, and darkening by the time we got back
to the broom broom - need to start earlier next time.
 It is possible to head S from the top and swing round W to do Cairn Gorm as
well - but not with the weather the way it was.

                            John B.

ps: if anyone's interested, a group of my pals quit half way up Ben Narnain
    at the weekend due to bad weather and deep snow.

        Internet:jbreslin@cs.strath.ac.uk| John A.Breslin, 4th Yr Computer Eng.
 ______ JANET   :jbreslin@uk.ac.strath.cs| Strathclyde Univ, Glasgow, Scotland
|\\##//|
|#\\//#| "For, so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we never will in any
|#//\\#| degree be subject to the dominion of the English. Since it is not for
|//##\\| glory, riches or honours we fight, but for liberty alone, which no
 ~~~~~~  good man loses but with his life." <The Declaration Of Arbroath 1320>
From: L.Dekker@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Macho Quiz (for Laura)
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:42:13 GMT

This isn't a macho issue, is it?  I do pull-ups, and I don't care
who knows it!

But the number you quote does depend on which way round you do 
them - I can do loads more palms facing than away.

Which do you mean?
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: ATC RECALL IS NOT TRUE I TALKED TO BD !!!!!!
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:01:55 GMT
Organization: intel corporation



	I just off the phone with Black Diamond. There is no recall
on ATC's. The mold is not broken. There was one case where an REI
Employee had an ATC with some debris in it that he thought was wearing
his rope abnormally.  BD's number is 801-278-5533. 


MichaeL
--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Rootbeer^2 = Beer ?
From: darby@andersen.co.uk (Dave Darby)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: A pain in the shin!
Summary: Shin pain from climbing
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:38:59 GMT
Organization: Andersen Consulting (UK Practice)

I often find that after a session on my local climbing 
wall I get a pain behind each shin.  I believe this is  
known as "shin splints"?

It seems to occur mainly when I do a lot of delicate footwork
which stretches and contracts calf muscles.

Does any one know what the cause of this is and any warm up
exercise to prevent it?

While on the subject of climbing injuries, does any one know the
long term effect on fingers of climbing?  The way my knucles feel
after climbing I`m sure I can`t be doing them much good!

Dave.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:49:38 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1ds0kbINN310@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Say, does anyone still understand about: a) nuts in opposition, b)
>two nuts on one perlon sling to create a primitive camming device,
>c) tying off the shaft of a rigid Friend (hmm sounds racy!), d)
>other devious techniques?

Robbins: Advanced Rockcraft.

You only left out stacking pins.  Fun.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
From: pggreen@juliet.caltech.edu (Green, Peter G.)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Cleaning the smell out of rock shoes?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 09:48 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Help!

Mine have gotten really bad and considerable amounts of water and
baking soda haven't been able to do the job.  Any suggestions are
welocome; I don't want my girlfriend to quit climbing with me!
Email replies will be summarized if appropriate.

Thanks,
-Peter Green
pgg@chemsys.caltech.edu

From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:32:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura) - training the head muscles
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing



Max set = 28 last time I tried.  Might make 30 now.  This is not something
I do often - maybe once or twice a year.  It hurts to much and I'm not sure
how valuable it is.  I do a lot of pull-up type training, but I usually do
pull-up intervals or weighted pull-ups instead.

Best onsight = 12a/b.  Best redpoint = 12b.

Do you think the correlation is the more pull-ups you can do the harder
you can climb?  OR is it the harder you climb, the harder you train, therefore
you can do more pull-ups?

Other interesting questions:
-  Can folks do a one-arm?  I can't quite.
-  How much weight or what percent of body weight can you add and still do
   one pull-up?  I've done this with 90 lbs (about 68%).
-  How many pull-ups can you do in 20 minutes (endurance)?  My best was 20
   sets of 8 for a total of 160.

Personally pull-ups and flash ability have not changed together.  I could do
20 or 22 pull-ups back when I was struggling to lead 5.7 at the Gunks.  Two
years later I could not do more pull-ups, but was leading 10+.

In recent years I have trained in cycles.  At the end of the "gym" phase, I'm
at my strongest (most pull-ups, pull-ups with greatest additional weight,...),
but I'm not climbing my best.  It is 4-6 weeks later (at least) when I've 
been back on the rock that my onsight ability peaks.

In general, my onsight ability changes very slowly these days.  I can usually
onsight mid to hard 5.11 after not climbing for months (I always boulder).
Training hard makes me more solid for another letter grade or two.  But I bet
most of this gain is from the bouldering, not the pull-ups or weight lifting.

My gut feel is that my best climbing correlates to the number of days I've
climbed recently.

Mort (fun trivia)

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca (Paul Gauthier)
Subject: What backpack and/or hiking boots do you recommend?
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:51:24 GMT

I sit here flipping through the MEC catalogue looking at their selection
of backpacks and hiking boots. I was just wondering if anyone who has
first hand experience with the various items could suggest which might
suit my needs, or make comments on their experiences with them.

I mainly need a pack for lugging my rope, climbing shoes, slings and
other assorted gear back and forth from the crags to the car. IE, mainly
I need a day pack with room for all that stuff and some food and water,
and other odds and ends. I'm considering taking up hiking unto itself
so would be interested in a pack with could serve for two or three day
weekend outings, etc.

The hiking boots will serve the same purpose. I'd like to get a pair that
will keep me fairly dry, since it is a very damp area around here,
but I won't be going for very many 'soakers'. I'd like a balance between
lightweight, sturdy and dry. Again, these are for short hikes now, but
may see some more vigorous use this winter and next year.

Any suggestions as to which of the packs/shoes that MEC offer would be
good choices?

Thanks,
PG
-- 
===========================================================================
                             Paul Gauthier
cyclist, rock climber, skydiver, computer scientist (...in order of danger)
Electronic: gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca  Voice: (902)423-0089  Fax: (902)420-1675
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bill@lhotse.ucar.edu ()
Subject: Asolo Superlite double boots
Reply-To: bill@lhotse.ucar.edu ()
Organization: High Altitude Observatory/NCAR, Boulder CO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:49:59 GMT

Can anyone give a good accessment and statement about the quality
and usefulness of the Asolo "Superlite" double boot?  I've heard
that it isn't very good for "real" winter conditions.  Rather it
is a good boot to have in the Alps in summer, early and late season.

Can anyone comment on this?

Thanks in advance,
--Bill
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: IMAX theaters
Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:27:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1992Nov12.173527.21414@Cadence.COM> bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson) writes:

>  Grand Illusion is at Sugarloaf, which is closer to Lake Tahoe 
>than the Leap.

Just so that nobody gets lost trying to find these fine climbing areas,
Sugarloaf is about 35 miles from Lake Tahoe via hiway 50, while Lover's
Leap is about 20 miles from Lake Tahoe via Hiway 50.  Unless some
strange law of astro-physics applies only in this region(yes, the 
infamous "Sugarloaf-Leap-Tahoe Triangle"), Lover's Leap is closer
to Lake Tahoe than Sugarloaf.

Bruce

ps - the first pitch of the Grand Illusion(AKA the Fracture) is a great
5.10d layback/finger crack, much more suited for mere mortals.



Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: One arm pull-ups (was Macho quiz)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 02:01:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.002405.8553@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>
kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden) writes:
>Its been my experience that there is little correlation between 
>the number of two arm pull-ups a person can do versus having the ability 
>to do a single one arm pull-up.  Specific muscle conditioning is
>required for one arm pull-ups.

This is beginning to sound like a Robbins push-up contest.  Sorry, no thanks.

A partner in college was the second man to repeat Gill's single finger
pull up.  He was easily capable of 3 one-arms, and we lost track of
continuous two-arms somewhat beyond 70.  He ultimately quit climbing
(bored) and is now practicing law in Boulder.  See you knew this would be
related to law suits somewhere.... 8^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing