HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tony Lezard <tony@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: source of morality for atheists
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 11:41:45 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

stuart@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Joseph Stuart ) writes:

> Since coming to disbieve the existence of god a few months ago, I have
> come pretty far in defining my own personal philosophy.  However, one point
> still bugs me that I can't quite get around: morality.  I feel that there
> are certain things which are immoral.  While I don't expect everyone to
> have the same moral code as me, I still feel a bit disturbed when others
> do things that I consider wrong.  Have any other atheists grappled with
> the question of where morality comes from, and produced any cogent
> thoughts?  If so, I would love to hear them.

First, welcome from religion!

The issue uf morality in the absence of gods is an interesting one. My
own view is largely evolutionary. Societies that see no problem with
arbitary killing (for example) are not likely to survive in the long run.
This leaves societies which prohibit arbitary killing.

It's really a prisoner's dilemma sort of thing. While it may be
advantageous to an individual of a species to act against other members
of the species, it is detrimental to the survival of the species as a
whole. Thus we see animal behaviour such as hunting in packs, caring for
young, and resolving territorial disputes non-fatally. Species which don't
do this sort of thing when they need to don't survive. (This is a little
simplistic; there are many other methods by which species can thrive.)

In animals this sort of behaviour is called instinct. In humans we call
it morality. Somewhere down the line, people found a need to rationalise
their instincts. It's hardly surprising that mysticism came into play.

It is interesting to ponder that with the coming of intelligence we can
reason and question our instincts and actually ignore them (eg. in the
resolution of territorial disputes, mentioned above). History has shown
that species not compelled to cooperate internally are selected against.
Are we thus doomed?

--
Tony Lezard IS tony@mantis.co.uk OR tony%mantis.co.uk@uknet.ac.uk
OR EVEN arl10@phx.cam.ac.uk if all else fails. Great! Kept my .sig down to two
lines!
From: strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Hello All!
Date: 9 Oct 1992 17:57:07 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

cb366@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark B. Bendiksen) writes:

>I am what most of you would probably call a "Jesus Freak".

I feel sorry for you.

>I have spent some time reading through many of the posts on
>this newsgroup with much interest. I expected to find much more
>discussion on deeper philosophical issues (i.e. why you
>believe in no God, etc.). 

It's fall.  We're spending too much of our time fending off idiots who
have never heard of FAQ files and think circular arguments are the
best thing since sliced communion bread.  Show me a theist CAPABLE of
having a well reasoned philosophical argument with an atheist ... But
I wouldn't expect this until (at least) the middle part of November.

>Love in Christ,

Love in hot juicy pussy.

Stratocaster
-- 
	   Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!)
      strat@cis.ksu.edu - Kansas State University - Manhattan KS
				   
 In the U.S.A., there are more black males in prison than in college.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Morals and God is Dead.
From: kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:29:16 EDT
 <zW7-V!=@engin.umich.edu> <1992Oct14.185300.24312@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> <parsons.719126406@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu>
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <parsons.719126406@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu>, parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish ) w
> 
> This does pertain to selfish/unselfish actions but is not directly related
> to the above paragraph.  I was watching Dateline NBC last night, and a
> program about a 7 year-old girl with a severe form of cancer came on.
> They discussed a St. Jude's research hospital where the experimentally
> treat children with cancer with new drugs and treatments.  They mentioned
> a statistic that was interesting and relevent.   Eighty percent of children 
> would volunteer to be used in new treatments and use new drugs so research 
> could be done, only 2% of adults would volunteer for experimental treatment.
> Who is more moral?  Unselfish?  Knoble?  (I believe these are terminal
> patients.)

   How can you tell?  It's a matter of risk, not just selfishness.
If you volunteer you're taking a risk on saving yourself; if it
works, you'll have saved yourself as well as proved the treatment.
But if it doesn't the treatment may kill you before the cancer does.
How does that relate to selfishness?

   BTW, I find it hard to believe that only 2% of adults with 
terminal cancer would volunteer.  If I was dying of cancer I
sure as hell would want them to do whatever they could, even
if it wasn't proven.  Remember how many people took Laetrile?

Karl
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:49:52 EDT
From: <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: EVIL
references: <JF6FsB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> <3K6-gG#@engin.umich.edu>

More importantly, does evil EXIST?  Evil is relative term, and depends on one's
 frame of reference.  What is good to one person is evil to another:
                            What the Nazis did seemed "evil" to whoever was not
                            Nazi, But the Nazis felt fully justified in their
                            actions and probably felt that they were doing
                            "good."
I submit that there is no such thing as evil (and for that matter, there's no
such thing as good).

        :-|,
            Eylon Geva
From: Tony Lezard <tony@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: O'Connor in Saturday Night Live
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 10:41:04 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto) writes:

> Would anyone comment on "Shaned O'Connor"'s actions
> on the program "Saturday Night Live" this past SAT.

Not everyone in the world can watch SNL when it is broadcast.
What did she do?

--
Tony Lezard IS tony@mantis.co.uk OR tony%mantis.co.uk@uknet.ac.uk
OR EVEN arl10@phx.cam.ac.uk if all else fails. Great! Kept my .sig down to two
lines!
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: source of morality for atheists
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:39:07 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

stuart@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (Joseph Stuart ) writes:


>Since coming to disbieve the existence of god a few months ago, I have
>come pretty far in defining my own personal philosophy.  However, one point
>still bugs me that I can't quite get around: morality.  I feel that there
>are certain things which are immoral.  While I don't expect everyone to
>have the same moral code as me, I still feel a bit disturbed when others
>do things that I consider wrong.  Have any other atheists grappled with
>the question of where morality comes from, and produced any cogent
>thoughts?  If so, I would love to hear them.

Morality is the basis for society.  Were we not moral, for the most part,
we would not have much of a society.  That is, humans are social creatures.
We _need_ to live in groups in order to survive.  Yes, what I'm saying is
that morality is a facet of our evolutionary development.  Morality
entails those things which allow us to successfully live together.
Most members of society must follow this morality, by definition.  If not,
our society would not be able to function, and our species would not 
survive.  Of course, the limits of morality have been tested, but there
have only been a few times in our history where the survival of our
species has been in question.

So, using the above, it is not too difficult to formulate some sort of
moral code.  Aspects of this morality include the things that allow us
to be able to live together (am I repeating myself?).  To live together,
we need to trust each other.  Morality includes things that will further
this goal.

If you want to test a particular action to determin its morality, apply
it to the above definition.  Again, it is usually pretty clear which acts
are moral, and which are not.

keith
From: XB.N54@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU (InveXtek)
Subject: Dictionary of Financial & Investment Terms:  ANNOUNCEMENT
Organization: InveXtek
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 04:19:39 GMT

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From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: Immersive Environments (VR) and Design
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:31:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.182929.8479@ncsu.edu> rwzobel@unity.ncsu.edu (Rick Zobel) writes:
>ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") and rwzobel@unity.ncsu.edu 
>(Rick Zobel) continue their discussion:
>
>>>>> (Stuff deleted...)
>

I don't have problems with what you had cited of the advantages of VR
applications in architecture, I always thought this technology has a
future but refinement is needed.

I also agree with what you had said about the need for deeper engagement
in designing and tailoring these applications to cater for our needs in
architects.

However, I think that the only possible way for developing these technologies
is to spread their use in the field of architecture and enhance the systems
as the time passes.
This is because we don't know much about design and we don't know much about
our own needs. We can't make a definitive path beforehand, we need some time
to experience with these systems to develop them.

I'd like to refer you to my other mentioned points in the article that deals
with using VR applications in one of architectural school.
I think your experience is helpful for clarifying the issues I mentioned
there.

I. Ballouz

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: nverma@almaak.usc.edu (Niraj Verma)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: JOINT PROGRAM IN URBAN DESIGN
Date: 15 Oct 1992 01:33:05 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu


Urban Design Program at University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0042
----------------------------------------------------------------

The School of Urban & Regional Planning and the Department of
Landscape Architecture at the University of Southern California
in Los Angeles announce a new program in Urban Design. This is
a three year Master's program and leads to the award of two
Masters degrees: one in Planning and the other in Landscape
Architecture. 

The program involves faculty in Urban Planning, Landscape
Architecture, and Architecture. Faculty interests span a
diverse set of professional and research topics including but
not limited to Theory of Design, Design Methods, Site Planning,
Spatial Form, History of Design, Environment and Behavior,
Information Systems in Planning. Students can expect to work
with faculty from the School of Urban and Regional Planning
or the Departments of Architecture/Landscape Architecture.
Financial aid is available for very well qualified students on a 
competitive basis. A first degree in a design field is required 
for admission.

For further information, write to:
Ms Sonia Savoulian
Director of Student Affairs
School of Urban and Regional Planning
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0042.


-- 
****************************************************************************
Dr. Niraj Verma (Assistant Professor)      University of Southern California
School of Urban & Regional Planning        Los Angeles, CA 90089 - 0042
****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger)
Subject: Graduate Schools
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:29:51 GMT

Hi!
	I will be graduating in the spring with a BFA in Interior Design
and I would like to go into either architecture or regional/urban 
planning for grad school. I would appreciate any information about
schools in the U.S. offering these programs. Personal recommendations,
opinions, as well as addresses to get more information would be great, if 
possible. 
	Thanks very much!
		chris
From: cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Re: The need for better signage and building numbering.
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:29:02 GMT
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle

In article <1992Oct11.040140.22839@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella) writes:

>MY pet peeve is the lack of signs where you critically need them.

At the University of Washington, the policy is ONE sign per
building...so choose your approach carefully, let you end up where
you don't want to be.  (How will you know?)  I brought this to the
attention of the president, Gerberding, and he replied that people
will just have to be more attentive.

No kidding.

But maybe this isn't surprising in Seattle, where numbers on
street signs and buildings is anathema.  Maybe it's some sort of
initiation ritual, but I'm burned up trying to find my way.  And
they call this a modern city....

Bob
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: HELP: Intelligent Buildings
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:14:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.093035.21184@inesc.pt> jlb@thor.inesc.pt (Jose' Luis B. Borbinha) writes:
>  Hi,
>
> I'm a PhD student at the Lisbon Technical University, from where I've also
>a graduate and a master degree in Computers.
>
> I'm working now in the integration of services in "inteligent buildings"
>(residential buildings, offices, etc). The target is the total integration of
>services usually treated as separeted ones, like "automation services"
>(energy and air conditionned management, access and fire security, elevators
>control, etc), communication networks (phones, fax, etc) and computer
>services (computer networks with CPUs, printers, file servers, etc).
>
> Therefore, and with the purpose of the exchanging of ideias, I'm looking for
>people interested in this subject, comming not only from the computer/electrical
>area but also from another ones (like architecture, civil eng., etc),
>
>thank you,

Here in the university of Strathclyde, there is a unit called the centre for
facilities management. The people there are intrested in what you are working
on. You can get in touch, you might be able to find publications, references...


-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: compag@lesosun2.epfl.ch (Raphael Compagnon)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: Seeking building material database
Keywords: building material, acoustic
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:04:20 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


Hello!
We are looking for building material acoustical properties data (absorbtion coeff.
at different frequencies). Does somebody knows good references or database of this
kind ? 

Please reply directly to my colleague F. DiPasquale:  ceso@lesosun2.epfl.ch

Thanks !

R. Compagnon
Laboratoire d'Energie Solaire et de Physique du Batiment (LESO-PB)
EPFL
1015 Lausanne SWITZERLAND
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella)
Subject: Re: Talk to me
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 03:48:43 GMT

My humble experience in the area of design relates mainly to novel 
experiemental apparatus and mechanical systems.

It is my experience that while you are in the basic creative process; while the
shape and form or function is changing or plastic, it is best to stay in the
sketchpad mode; likely freehand...

The time to put it into the CAD medium is the first moment that  dimensions
begin to concern you:  Will it fit in the space provided? the lot, or will it
accomodate the requisite numeber of people or equipment.  It is THEN that I
truly derive the benefit of CAD since less time is wasted in dimensioning and
detailing.  Every scrap of information you put in is preserved or changed 
easily as you ideas mature.  The computer is SUPERB at that...    I always
use full scale in my drawings...  That saves time in the end, also.
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: mazzucch@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (massimo mazzucchi)
Subject: urbanistic
Keywords: urbanistic
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:06:34 GMT


HY

I am Max froma ITALY Milan

I want know if someone know if exist a programm like
PC-GLOBE or PC-USA about a part of town or a quarter
with information about population and other info.

- if someone know that programm graphic it was used to
  realize PC-GLOBE or PC-USA


  Thanks for your help

  BYE


  My address is mazzucch@ghost.dsi.unimi.it 

Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Subject: Re: Who reads this group?
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:50:42 GMT


WORLDESIGN is an information design firm specializing in synthetic
environments...almost-architecture.  Personally, in my off moments
(fewer and fewer as potential clients become more plentiful), I'm
also a research associate professor of landscape architecture at
the University of Washington.

I think that architects will join the Internet as they learn that
their interests can be served through newsgroups like this one.

Bob Jacobson
From: randolph@cognito.ebay.Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
Subject: The sound of an entrance
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:43:18 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognito.ebay.sun.com

In downtown San Jose, on Third Street, the Business Journal has its
offices in a boxy looking building with a quarter-circle bite out of
one corner.  The bite, which houses the building's main entrance is
about 15 feet in radius, and faces the corner of the block.  The
exterior of the building is bands of pebbly concrete (possibly
attached as sheets, I'm not sure) and glass windows; the main entrance
is tall glass doors surrounded by tall glass windows.  If you stand
out on the sidewalk at the center of the bite and shout, the echo is
amazing--all that glass.

The entrance has another curious property: although it has an
enclosing shape, I didn't feel I was entering the building until I was
very close to the doors, perhaps only two feet away.  Downtown San
Jose is a strange place and there are strange juxtapositions--my
favorite is the health club in an old Scottish Rite church.  That
night, we walked on to a number of the quasi-mission revival and
Victorian apartments--lots of wood, plaster, and stucco--and found
that we began to feel that we were entering those apartments perhaps
five to ten feet from the doors.

I finally decided that the point where I felt I was entering the
building was the point where the street noise faded, operating by
I'm-not-sure what laws of acoustics.  The concave, glassy entrance of
the Business Journal building reflects back lots of sound, and I
didn't hear the transition until you're very close; the older,
irregular wood and plaster entrances absorb more sound and I felt I
was entering the building's "space" at a somewhat greater distance.

__Randolph Fritz  sun!cognito.ebay!randolph || randolph@ebay.sun.com
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Subject: Re: Talk to me
Organization: University of Strathclyde
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:15:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.172335.16959@news.acns.nwu.edu> marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski) writes:
>How about a pithy exposition of what CAAD is and does for all us CAADless
>folks out there?  I think I have an idea and I would like to know if there
>is anything for the Macintosh platform that one could use.  I'm interested
>in designing fountains.
>
>				-- Marek

There are many opninions about the role the computer can play in architecture.
Some believe that these "tools" are no more than electronic paper & pencils
that have some advantages over traditional paper & pencils.
For some others, a computer can play the role of a catalyst to generate ideas
during the design stages.
Others do believe that computers can be used as a true aid for the architect,
the computer here can be more than a medium for drawing, visualization..etc.
Design decisions can left for the computer.

The applications of computers in architecture are numerous. The october 1991
issue of Progressive Architecture contains some articles about the current
applications of computers in architecture.

Regards,

Ibrahim

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.architecture
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Scale human figures?
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:20:16 GMT


   Are there 1/72 scale human figures available?

   I asked about this on alt.models, and was told to try archtectural
supply stores. Since I don't know of any such stores, I thought I would
ask if such things are available before looking for a store.
   I'm particularly interested in people in beach attire. Of course, 1/72
scale military figures are common in model stores.

DanZ
 
-- 
    "I think it is a little premature to attribute the failures of American
     foriegn policy to Carl Kadie."
                                                     -Mike Godwin
This article for entertainment purposes only.
Newsgroups: alt.architecture