HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mdm@hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Rank
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:38:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Oct12.203847.6302
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <Bw0w87.LKB.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
>Of course rank should not be meaningless.  There are problems with it, but  
>most people of higher ranks are better than those of lower (until you get  
>to the rank of commodore).  6.5 ratings is the best a good player can do  
>without scumming, so a commodore can reasonably be as good as an admiral,  
>rear admiral, or commodore.  It is VERY rare that I find a Flt. Captain to  
>have the skill of a commodore.  Note, there is at least 2 exceptions that  
>I can think of.
>

	I think if you don't scum, and you play for anything that even
resembles a long time, you're lucky to get 3.0 ratings.

	First off, there's the LPS, where one can spend hours and
hours in.  Your planet rating falls, if you want to help your team
then you generally aren't scout bombing, so your bombing drops.
The only thing that might go up is your offense, but not by very
much.

	Secondly, there are the times when you are on a team that
is much more clued than you.  In this case you can bomb, but you
cannot take planets easily because you can't count on escorts.

	I guess what I am saying is that anyone with anything much
higher than 4.0 ratings either plays on the winning team a lot,
comes in after a genocide (where bombing is plentifull) a lot,
or at the very least doesn't sit in an LPS a lot.

	Even the best player cannot turn an LPS around unless his
teammates are willing to help.  And in general one must hope that
some clue slides off the queue, or that the current opposition can
genocide.

	So to conclude, I think it is not fair to say what you say.
There are many people who play netrek just to play, despite
conditions which make accumulating ratings impossible.  These people,
under favourable circumstances, are as deadly as anyone else.  They
just don't pay attention to meaningless ratings.

	There are many holes in this theory, I'm sorry for that,
but I need to get back to work so no proofreading/pondering my
words this time!!!!!
 
	-Michael (Whadda day... I have coded so much my fingers are
		going to fall off!!!!!)
-- 
|Michael Delbert Moore |  Home : (614) 471-1937  Office : (614) 292-7161  |
|OSU Student Programmer|--------------------------------------------------|
|Ohio State CIS Major  |     Calories consumed for a 150 pound person     |
|mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu|      Hill-climbing (100 ft/hour) : 490/hour      |
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ramid@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rudy Amid)
Subject: Re: Blessed Borgs
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 05:06:56 GMT

cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann) writes:
[...]
>binary's fallback font choices don't work well). It's a descendant of
>Ted Hadley's UDP client, so it has those EEEVIL lockon triangles and
>shows your tractor/pressors visibly.

   Scared to a little triangle?  :-)
   Really.  No harm done.  Makes the game less annoying and more comfortable.

--
!Rudy Amid              ///
a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu//
amid@r-node.gts.org   ///
Netrek/IRC: Radix  \\X//
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Rank
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:24:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Michael Moore writes
> 	I think if you don't scum, and you play for anything that even
> resembles a long time, you're lucky to get 3.0 ratings.

How's that?  The average value for the server should be 1.0 for each of  
bombing, planets, and offense.  Thus, the average player will get 3  
ratings.  A good player, will consistently get higher than 3.  Most of the  
players that I respect get between 4 and 6.

> 	First off, there's the LPS, where one can spend hours and
> hours in.  Your planet rating falls, if you want to help your team
> then you generally aren't scout bombing, so your bombing drops.
> The only thing that might go up is your offense, but not by very
> much.

It has allready been pointed out that there is much more DI to gain on the  
losing side than the winning.  You get LOTS of DI on the defensive end on  
a LPS.  

How much time do you spend in the offensive side of a LPS?  I don't spend  
hours and hours.  I either genocide them, timer them, or I quit out after  
about an hour...its really boring.

> 	Secondly, there are the times when you are on a team that
> is much more clued than you.  In this case you can bomb, but you
> cannot take planets easily because you can't count on escorts.

Most of the time, this is not the case.  The losing side is the best way  
to get DI.  You can do any number of useful things (including taking easy,  
core planets) to help your team and get DI.

> 	I guess what I am saying is that anyone with anything much
> higher than 4.0 ratings either plays on the winning team a lot,
> comes in after a genocide (where bombing is plentifull) a lot,
> or at the very least doesn't sit in an LPS a lot.

See above.  The average player gets 3 ratings.  An above average player,  
should be able to get 4.

> 	Even the best player cannot turn an LPS around unless his
> teammates are willing to help.  And in general one must hope that
> some clue slides off the queue, or that the current opposition can
> genocide.

How so?  Almost always I see a single great player in one side of an LPS  
causing it to turn around.  See:  MUCUS PIG.

> 	So to conclude, I think it is not fair to say what you say.
> There are many people who play netrek just to play, despite
> conditions which make accumulating ratings impossible.  These people,
> under favourable circumstances, are as deadly as anyone else.  They
> just don't pay attention to meaningless ratings.

I don't think you should pay attention to ratings.  A good player gets  
high ratings without scumming, and by helping his team.  Ratings is a good  
indication of skill over a long time...but there are exceptions...scumming  
does occur.  If a person scums to admiral, they probably know enough to be  
a good admiral anyway.

> 	-Michael (Whadda day... I have coded so much my fingers are

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 08:20:54 -0400 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: INL Strategy: Is Ori and Kli playable?
	<1992Oct7.184315.27756@coe.montana.edu>


From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
>Personally, I feel that in the grand scheme of things, the planet layout has
>a negligible effect on the game.  The Rom/Dra pair makes taking Dra a 
>little harder.  Of all the planet layouts, Rom is the only one that
>seems to me to have a little advantage, at least when it comes to planetary
>defense.  If the roms have superior skill and teamwork, then they won't
>be worrying about dra anyway.  If the have less skill and teamwork, a 
>determined opponent will take dra regardless.
As Bert pointed out, the Rom/Dra pair works for army defense too.
When you reenter the game, it's likely that you can chase away any
bombers on either of these planets, a very large advantage.  

Planet layout does make a difference.  Orions have El Nath in the
middle of no where, and Spica is closer to Earth than Orion.
Preventing these planets from being taken is almost impossible (when
your opponent starts closer to your planets than you do, something is
wrong).  

Klingons are spread out which makes defending armies very difficult,
and they have Mira (a free take for the Roms).  In Ori/Kli wars it
seems Ori have the advantage.

	joe
	Purple haze
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:10:17 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: XG vs OTR

Home: XG  -- Fed
AWAy: OTR -- Rom

Notes:  There was more cross-campus packet loss than I have ever seen
before.  As a result, OTR ended up getting occational burps.  I wasn't
expecting to actually get a home-feild advantage against another CMU
team, but it looks like we did.  It's possible that warsong had better
playing conditions than much of OTR.  OTR was also missing Drewski,
which hurt rather a lot.  gc00 had to leave halfway through the game
(replace by Shin), but the game was essencially over by then.

	The initial bombing run wnet to XG who bombed all of the Rom core
except for Rom, while OTR spent too much time on the front.  In our
clean-up waves, we killed all the rest of thier armies including their
base.
	With a 50+ army advantage, we moved into their space by attacking more
planets at once than they could defend.  For a while, we stalled, not
being able to take Hyd and Eri (Both Agri) at the same time, but we
cleaned up by forcing Hyd and grabbing Eri while they were re-taking Dra.
	They got a second base, which we Ogged behind Hyd while they killed
Balton (also at Hyd).  At the same time, we grabbed Tau.  Ald fell to a
"fake" shortly afterward, thus bringing up the LPS.
	We never broke the LPS.  After about 20 minutes, we sort of lost our
coherance, and couldn't get together team waves.  Every time they
popped, we would gather together to kill their armies, but otherwise, we
seemed uninspired.  All in all, it was fun anyway.
	Dr Distructo (Sandia) was probably their MVP.  Every time that we went
in on a wave, he seemed to be the one we had to worry about.  Elf of
Doom (Grey Elf) did a reasonable job of killing our armies, considdering
that he got no help.  If feel that if we had had unlimited armies, we
could probably have gotten a lucky carrier in to finish them off.
	OTR is a strong team.  It would hve been nice to play them without the
burps they were getting.  We may try to set up a scrimage when we have
time.

ZZnew guy
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hockey servers?
Date: 9 Oct 1992 21:03:01 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

a434amid@cdf.toronto.edu (Rudy Amid) writes:
>   I've been noticing the hockey servers lately:
>
>   These two servers are never used.  NO one plays Netrek hockey these days so
>dedicated servers like these seem like a waste.  Server gods of geo1s and
>hockey.ksu, perhaps you should run INL 3.0 servers instead since this is
>a busy INL season and people can use a practice INL server.

Bite your tongue.  There were 4 folks playing last night.  I think the
ramping up of the INL has just kinda taken folks back to regular netrek
for a while.  Hockey used to regularly get 10-16 players on Hockey Thursday,
and I don't doubt it will return to prominence some day.  It *IS* a way
cool game.

As for INL servers...hockey.ksu.edu==inl.ksu.edu.  It runs both the hockey
server and the INL server at the same time.  I do not want folks using
the INL server just to fool with, but it is available for use by appointment
to any team which wants it.  The INL server really isn't set up, IMO, to 
leave open for every Tom/Dick/Harry to play on; it kinda assumes people 
will be well-behaved.

--Brick
From: mcn@cwru.edu (Michael C. Neuman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA Stuff
Date: 15 Oct 1992 23:55:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62103.student.cwru.edu

  If you're going to start messing with the RSA stuff posted about earlier, I'd  
recomment doing it with a bit of trepidation... I've spent all day trying to  
find ONE machine that has all the libmp stuff needed to get the thing to work.  
Here are the results:

Sun4          - Has libmp.a, goes into an infinite loop at is_prime()
Sun3          - Same as Sun4
NeXT          - Causes a *strange* segmentation fault. 
DEC3100/VAX   - mfree not defined. Opening a memory leak only creates huge  
	        problems.
Cray YMP/XMP  - Won't even look at the code. Chokes and dies
SGI 4D/380VGX - No libmp
Stardent FPS  - No libmp
iWarp         - Same as Sun4 (Okay, the front end IS a sun4, but it sounds
		impressive) :-)
IBM RS/6000   - No libmp

  In other words, I couldn't get it to work on ANY of those machines. So,  
following the instructions, I went off and found myself a copy of GNU's libmp.  
Well, GNU was nice enough not to include an 'invert' function in v1.2, which is  
apparently integral to genkeys.

  The final word:

The server/client compiled just fine. Whether they work or not, I don't know  
yet (I couldn't generate a key for them). Genkeys doesn't work on any of the  
systems listed above (which is prolly just about every machine that'd want to  
run it anyway).

Other comments:
1) It's a pretty good idea, but what happens if you want to invalidate a key?  
You have the .reserved file which is essentially nonsense binary. If, for  
example, I want to remove the sun4 key, how would I do that? 
2) How would I know for example, that Mr. Borg (R2) is using the Sun4 key? I  
mean, invalidating a key would be great if it gets out, but how do we know  
which key any given player is using?
3) Fallback to reserved.c would be pretty nice, at least until it takes off...
Maybe setting the CONFIRM flag to 0 for nothing, 1 for RSA/reserved.c, 2 for  
RSA only... That way it could slowly be phased in...

  Now that Terence is gone, who's our server hack? :-)
--
        Mike Neuman                mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
  "To make a machine that will be proud of us." - Thinking Machine's motto
==============================================================================
* Maintainer: NeXT netrek archive--b62103.student.cwru.edu:/pub/games/netrek *
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: the berkeley blessed binary -- READ THIS
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:04:19 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <Bw4ptE.5oJ.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
)
)I'm a little surprised taht it's taken so long for people to start
)protesting about these new clients.  Mehlhaff announced his client's
)availability about three weeks ago, and my immediate reaction was to
)send mail to my inl rep asking if it was legal (no definitive reply
)until Tom's post today), and to Mehlhaff asking if I could get it for
)the Decstation.  I trust that the INL council has conferred on the
)subject of whether visible tractors make such clients "combat or
)informational cyborgs".  Note that if I tractor you and you cloak, I
)get to track you on the tactical map (though the tractor lines jump
)around because they're drawn according to the ?? position).  Are there
)other grounds for disputing the legality of any of these clients?  Do
)any of them show the color of cloakers, for instance?

Well, first of all, the visible tractors have been available in
Tedd Hadley's client for about 6 months.  Mehlhaff's main mods are
the fuel report, the help window showing your keymap, and intelligent
distress calls (also adds ETEMP and WTEMP if applicable).

I agree that the tractors probably shouldn't be visible after someone
cloaks, but I also agree with Tedd that it's more distracting than 
useful.

None of the blessed clients show the color of cloakers.
 -Tom
From: hadley@thoth.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: UDP/scanning beam/visible tractor client
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Keywords: udp, scanning beam, visible tractor
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:36:52 GMT

In <ldug8gINN12u@levelland.cs.utexas.edu> davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo) writes:

>   The other unimportant difference is just that Tedd changed the solid
>   tractor lines of Andy's routine into dotted lines, which I feel is an
>   improvement.  Tedd also improved the drawing of tractor lines to ships
>   with their shields up and ships without their shields up and so on.
>   However, these are just aesthetic improvements.

   Originally done by James Collins, author of the calvin client.

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB vs LA Riot at Calvin
Date: 10 Oct 1992 17:49:21 -0700
Organization: <censored>
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu


Sorry, Gene, but your opinions are untenable.  We at USC have that exact
same packet loss anywhere else.  Today in our aborted IC-TOE game, i had
17%|18% for a while.  After i switched hosts, i got it down to a playable
9/8.  Last night i was playing at an even 12/12 loss at harvey, discovery
and doorstop.

Stop whining and take the loss on your feet.  I know that lag from `SC to
Berkeley is bad, but you gotta realize that `SC players have to put up with
that shitty lag every single game that isn't at home.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: The neverending thread
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 15:54:19 GMT

That guy from Upenn pens:
botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle) writes:
>I can not be ogged while carrying.  I can be stopped on the way to the planet.
)I can be killed while picking up to prevent an enemy core planet from popping,
)or while ghostbusted, but I can not recollect a successful ogg on me by less
)than three enemies within the last six months.

To which our man in Berkeley replies:
sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>Well, again you'll forgive me, but I'll bet you've just got a bad
>memory.  Anyone who's seen Justin play recently care to recall some
>examples to the contrary?

Yes.  I have killed Justin with armies, "solo", in a scout.  I use quote
marks to open up the possibility that because there were 7 other people
on my team all thinking of Justin, he might consider that a 'team' effort,
but I provided all the damage points.

Unless the player is a gutless defense-scum loser, which Justin is usually
not (*), he ain't gonna play 6 months of clued netrek without getting ogged
by someone, eventually, for some reason.  That Justin's claim is untenable
doesn't make him less generally right than he is, though.

(*) just trying to start a flame war. :)

grand double admiral sunscreamer
minister of truth, hell's bagels
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: New entry for Irony award
Date: 11 Oct 92 04:15:36 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Oct-92 Re: Iron Man
Netrekkers Justin Botelle@eniac.sea (1025)

> Justin
> (Cuisinart)

> P.S.  HELP!! I've been shot in the leg by Mike


	I figure that Justin Botelle and Mike Juster deserve some kind of irony
award.  Mike is spending the weekend in Philly for a an Ultimate Frisbee
competition, and was invited to stay with Justin.  Mike accepted.*
	Sorry, but I think that CrackPot leading 12AM is going to have to take
a back seat.

ZZnew guy

*  For those who don't know, the last time Mike had an Ultimate
competition in Philly, he threatened to take advantage of being there to
shoot Justin.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: Scimmage Results: Target Practice vs. the World
Summary: Target Practice
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 21:42:19 GMT

In article <ldbjp7INNgs5@notrees.cs.utexas.edu> davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo) writes:

>
>At the moment, I feel that if TP were to play against clueful 
>borg players, and I'll like to emphasize clueful, TP should lose.  
>This is because borgs help to complement dogfighting skills with a 
>clueful player's wits.

Sounds to me like borgs were not necessary.  It just took Clueful players,
and from the game reports it wouldn't take huge amounts of clue.  Of course,
they will get better.

>
>-- 
>[1m[4mDavid Eng-Yeow Teo[0m
>
>               [1m[7m>>>>> WHERE ILLUSION IS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON! <<<<<[0m


Sherlock

Roger
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves)
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Originator: spot@COBOL.FOX.CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Oct9.172908.3679@cis.ohio-state.edu>
	<AepWOFC00Vp303dXIl@andrew.cmu.edu> <1b8kqsINNkc9@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 19:34:58 GMT

>>>>> On 11 Oct 1992 07:24:12 GMT, sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) said:

Scott> In any case, bezier ran something very much like vanilla
Scott> netrek.  I would argue instead that the *lack* of the 0.8
Scott> defense rating, which was originally installed because it was
Scott> *too* *easy* to get rank by suiciding (this was before the term
Scott> "ogg") enemy players.  The sequent server gods decided
Scott> (rightly, I think) that a good player should have to survive
Scott> confrontations to gain rank.

you're suggesting that good players objective is to get rank by
jumping through hoops rather than winning the game.  i play to win,
and that's why i can kick your ass.  and have fun doing it.


Scott> More CMU arrogance.  bronco netrek was a sub-variety of netrek,
Scott> but some people seem to think of it as "correct".

"was" is the key word here.

-- 
			organize
Scott Draves		enumerate
spot@cs.cmu.edu		file
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: zog@chocolate.cns.udel.edu (Michael D. Eisenberg [Dan])
Subject: UDP/scanning beam/visible tractor client
Keywords: udp, scanning beam, visible tractor
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:52:03 GMT

	ok, i found the visible tractor client somewhere, and then i got
the one from calvin/berkeley that also has the +1 and -1 warp features.
however, i have several questions:

	1) are these "legal"? if they are normally legal (i hate to ask this)
		are they for the INL?

	2) what about the %!$%#@*#@$! scanning beams? has anyone created a 
		client that has them?  if not, how do i do it? (i have
		the diff files)
	
	on another front, can you map the TAB key in the .xtrekrc?

	thanks...mail or post, whichever...

-dan
-zog
-W T Sherman

-- 
	ZZZZ  OOOO  GGGG	|	zog@freezer.cns.udel.edu
	  Z   O  O  G __	|	   zog@bach.udel.edu
	 Z    O  O  G  G	|	At Skool: (302) 837-3227 
	ZZZZ  OOOO  GGGG	|	At Home:  (301) 384-6507
From: sjsmith@cs.umd.edu (Stephen Joseph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INL Coaches' Poll WAITING ON: Some results
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:58:23 GMT
Organization: ENPN [Entertaining Netrek Posting Network]

Sorry about the lateness of the ENPN coaches' poll.  I've been away this
weekend and was busy when I got back.

I'm missing the results of Janitors of Anarchy at 12 Angry Men: The Next
Generation.  Can someone send them to me?

Was Illuminus Cartel at Take Off, eh? ever rescheduled?

Thanks in advance.

- Gamera, ENPN director
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Subject: Re: INL: Possible server bug.
Reply-To: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:14:33 GMT

In article <2ADB62AF.14910@ics.uci.edu>, hadley@vlsi.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
writes:
> In <1992Oct13.172535@IASTATE.EDU> isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!) writes:
> 
> >  Looks like it. I guess I am going to modify the tools from final bronco
> >source
> >  so it will have the right shared memory size as INL server uses.
> >  I will put them sometime on tbird.
> 
>    Since most of the bronco tools are one-file programs and they all use
>    the same include files as the server, the easiest way to compile them
>    is to move/copy the source file into the INL ntserv directory and do
>    'make <program>'.

  Yea, that's true. :)
  I really meant to say I would try to add some more options to clear the
  CAPTAIN thingy too, but I forgot. :) :)

> 
> ++
>    Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)

-Rony