HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaronm@ccmail.orst.edu (Mithran Aaron)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Card tricks
Date: 16 Dec 1992 23:19:13 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University Libraries
NNTP-Posting-Host: standdx26.kerr.orst.edu

sure! Always willing to learn.
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Subject: Re: Misled...
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:40:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.180027.28076@cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu
(Bryan S. So) writes: 
[...]
> David Copperfield had performed a pencil passing through a coin.
> It was amazing... is that a variation of Misled?
>
>bryan

Nope, it's a completely different effect, and needs different props.
It's usually called 'Cigarette (or Pencil) Through Quarter'.  To give
a quick synopsis, you use a borrowed quarter, and pass a lit cigarette
or a pencil (I prefer the cig, the smoke adds style) through & back
out, then return the quarter.  The angles are quite good - if you're
careful you can even handle people looking over your shoulder (must be
quite careful though).  If you can get ahold of it, Michael Ammar's
big book (forget the name - someone?) has an excellent handling of
this.  

	RA

rogue@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (The Rogue Agent)
--------------------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: rbutterw@math.uwaterloo.ca (Ray Butterworth [MFCF])
Subject: Two kinds of lies.
Organization: Math Faculty Computing Facility, University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:55:06 GMT

As an audience member I see two kinds of "lying".

1. you tell me you will make the coin pass through the solid table.
   This is obviously a "lie", since it is obvious that you can't
   really make the coin do such a thing.  But that's what magic is,
   you make a "lie" appear true, even though I know it isn't really.

2. you tell me that you can read the mind of a randomly selected
   member of the audience, but in fact the member is a plant that
   has been rehearsed before hand.  To me that is cheating, since
   for the trick to work you really do expect me to believe your lies.

In general it's ok for you to lie so long as we both know it is a lie.
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, and you're talented enough to
make that easy for me to do.

i.e. if I find out that you lied, it shouldn't spoil the trick any.

If you must lie to make the trick work, don't do it with words.
Don't say "there are no hidden strings", instead pass a hoop over
the object to make me draw that conclusion myself.  Don't tell me
it is an ordinary deck of cards, instead demonstrate to me that
it is.  Don't tell me the audience member was selected at random
and isn't working for you, instead use a trick to make it seem
that your stooge was picked at random.

If I find out how the trick is done, I should feel something like
"Clever!  I'll know what to look for next time.", not something like
"but you said ..., and I believed you.  Now I feel like a fool."

Make me feel that you are talented, not that I'm stupid.
Then I'll appreciate your act even if I do know how it's done.
From: gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David Brian Gumminger)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Need Close-up Levitation
Date: 16 Dec 1992 11:26:26 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <1992Dec15.194736.9518@cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes:
>
>I'd like to know more about Copperfield's kleenex paper effect.
>I suppose it must be watched in a dark auditorium?

I believe you are referring to the "Floating Rose" routine.  The effect was
created by Kevin James (not Copperfield).  A piece of "tissue" paper is 
wadded into a ball which bounces on the performers hand and even up and
down his/her arm.  The paper is then formed into a rose shape which levitates
in front of the performer.  The paper rose is lit with a candle (or whatever)
and changes to a real rose.

It doesn't have to be performed in a dark auditorium, but lighting is 
important.  If you want more specific information, e-mail me and I'll try
to help.  Or, go directly to the source and contact Kevin James at:

      Kevin James 
      9682 Katella
      Anaheim, California 92804
      (714)520-4381
      (714)535-5237   (FAX)

You can purchase a video from Kevin James that describes the effect, the
variations used by Copperfield and gives some tips on other similar effects.
The tape is $60 if memory serves and comes with all you need to make the
trick go (except the tissue).  

-- 
David B. Gumminger
Kansas State University
gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: fmah@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Gimmick problems  2/2
Reply-To: fmah@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:28:05 GMT

In article <1gfmteINNbuu@agate.berkeley.edu>, bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:

>(I'm told, although I haven't seen it myself, that some magicians these days
>actually splatter blood around the stage when they do a dismemberment
>illusion, for example.)

Would Penn & Teller be a good example of this?

This guy up north,

Frank

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: magicmat@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Phillips)
Subject: Re: Gimmick problems
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:42:22 GMT

You mentioned that you spent $200 on gimmicks, only to find they 
were cheap. I found the same thing years ago, and came to this
conclusion: Buy books, and material. It takes more work to do 
ungimmicked magic, but you can do it anywhere, and anytime. 
Angles are generally better in sleight of hand it seems. Get 
yourself some general magic books, and basic props..coins, 
cards, etc. Bobo's book on coin magic can show you a dozen good
vanishes that are impromptu. Look for new material, not other's.


--
 __ _ _   __ _   __ _  _   _    _ _ _   __ _ _____   _______________________ 
 I ' ' I /  ' I /  ' II I /  \ I ' ' I /  ' I_   _I /                      / 
 I I I II O I II O I II II O-< I I I II O I I I I   \  If I had a Hammer,  \  
 I_I_I_I \__,_I \__, II_I \__/ I_I_I_I \__,_I I_I   / I'd put him on tour. /
                I___/  magicmat@camelot.bradley.edu \______________________\
From: so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Misled...
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:00:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Dec9.170048.15604@head-cfa.harvard.edu>, ov@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Olaf Vancura) writes:
>
>Will somebody please post the effect (as seen by audience) to Misled...
>I believe it is the trick where a pencil passes through a dollar bill.
>Please post what may be inspected and when...

 David Copperfield had performed a pencil passing through a coin.
 It was amazing... is that a variation of Misled?

bryan
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: garyb@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Gary Berard)
Subject: Misled
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:42:09 GMT
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

The pencil through coin is no more a variation on misled than any penetration 
effect is on any other penetration effect.  The methods are quite different 
and require different handlings and management.

Regards,
Gary Berard

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Re: Card Tricks
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:36:44 GMT

In article <8Hg1VB2w165w@netlink.cts.com> drbombay@netlink.cts.com (Walter Ladwig) writes:
> ...
>I'd be interested in some easy card tricks.

  Karl Fulves has two books out in the Dover imprint - titled
something like SelfWorking Card Tricks and More ...  From their
names you can guess that the tricks will be easy to do.  Fulves
is a good writer and knows magic - and the tricks are all easy to
do and the descriptions are easy to follow.  (Also the books are
inexpensive.)

  What's the catch?  Well, there isn't one except that the books
(as I remember them) are really only on the way to work the tricks,
and there is little or no help on presentation, patter or routines.
You can get other books to help on this - such as Amateur Magician's
Handbook (by Hays) or Royal Road to Card Magic.

--henry schaffer
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Gimmick problems  2/2
Date: 13 Dec 1992 16:03:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

ken.laporte@synapse.org (Ken Laporte)  writes:
>One trend that does bother me.  Is the teenagers today who simply have
>no interest or use for magic.  This is the audience of the future.  It's
>funny because a number of their idols use magic and effects in their
>stage productions (Music) but couldn't care less if they were shown a
>really neat illusion by a magician.

Does everyone share this experience?  Are kids not into magic today?
If so, why, do you think?  Too sophisticated/cynical/street-wise too
young, like Calvin or Bart?  Or maybe if you're into heavy metal then
the fantasy in traditional magic isn't intense enough?  (I'm told,
although I haven't seen it myself, that some magicians these days
actually splatter blood around the stage when they do a dismemberment
illusion, for example.)  Or perhaps in this super-scientific era it's
harder for people to do the suspension of disbelief trick?
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: zytnia@daimi.aau.dk (Christian Vands| Andersen)
Subject: Books
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 11:03:01 GMT

 I'm going to one of the biggest magic shops here in Denmark by
monday, and if anyone could recommand a GOOD magic book before
then, I'd be pleased. I'm not a stage magician but purely close
up. I like books like Harry Lorraine: "The magic book". Is there
anyone similar ?

 And while I'm here, I'd like to give my contribution to the
topic "To reveal or not to reveal, that's the question". 
 We don't NEED to reveal anything. Surely we would know how
a trick is done, or could be done. Therefore, a description 
from the spectators point of view would be just as good.
 It's the patter and the presentation that does it, not the
fancy moves. And the moves are different from person to
person anyway.

 Regards,

 Christian
From: pbaker@tbag.tscs.com (Pete Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Tipping magician in a restaurant
Date: 11 Dec 92 07:10:08 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

On Fri 11-Dec-1992  6:57a, Ron Schweikert wrote:
RS> Okay, that aside, just what is an appropriate tip?  It is of course
RS> published and customary to tip 15% for food service (if the service
RS> warranted), but I've never seen any guidance for "unsolicited" (but
RS> nevertheless welcome) approaches to the table by magicians or musicians.
RS> Please, for the next time this situation occurs, what does netland feel
RS> is appropriate?  Those of you who do restaurant work, what do you
RS> anticipate as "average" compensation?  (BTW, the situation was a fine
RS> dining establishment (at least by my standards :-)) where meals were
RS> approximately $12 (I've always been there just for the buffet).

RS> I wanted to support him.  He was entertaining and courteous.  Are house 
RS> magicians paid by the restaurant or do they get compensated only by tips?

It depends on the restaurant..  There are a few things I find curious about your story.
1. that the magi came over BEFORE dinner... it is customary for the magi to stop by during the "after dinner coffee or dessert". THat way the wallet is more accessible and you are not distracted by waiting for your meal.

2. Are you sure that your magi did not do any money tricks with a borrowed bill?  It may be that he is new to the practice of Table-Hopping (rest. magic)
Usually one of the magicians tricks involves borrowing a dollar or a fiver.  Then he makes it disappear and close to the end of his routine he makes it reappear. If he is bold, he will say something like "Who gave me this dollar?"
and when you reply "I DID." he would say "Thank You!" and place the bill in his pocket for a second.. Then say just kidding and return the bill to you.
<<That is a plea for a tip of a dollar, but, YOU must insist>>

3.  Some restaurants are just very extravagant and they hire a magi to entertain with the strict rule that NO TIPPING ALLOWED.  You may have hit on one of those...(for $12 a meal, I tend to doubt that it was this kind of place)

Also did you notice if he did the same routine at different tables?  If so, it would bring me back to the assumption that he was just new to his vocation.
Most table-hoppers have about three or four different routines so that if you look over at the next table and see him working again, you will NOT see the same tricks.

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

            _
Pete Baker { }
          ( V-) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
pbaker@tbag <or was it> tbag!pbaker@uunet.uu.net <maybe> pbaker@tbag.tscs.com
=============================================================================
From: christ@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian G. Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Amazing Randi
Date: 15 Dec 1992 22:37:31 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cie.uoregon.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

  Since I certainly didn't get any of this from something I bought, but
sussed...anyone who has complaints can disappear.
 
  There's two ways I can think of to make a spoon bend, actually three.
All but the last one require you provide your own spoon (I know, no fun!).
First way...Switch the spoon you were given with a gaffed one made of a metal
which has an extremely low melting temperature.  This kind of metal is used
in tricks where you put a spoon into a hot cup of coffee then withdraw it to
show that the coffee has "eaten" away the spoon.  I think it
is called "woodsman's metal" or somesuch.  By rubbing the spoon along it's
neck, you raise the temp and +POOF+ it becomes limp and even breaks if you
persist.  All that's needed is light massaging.
  Second way: Bend the damned thing!  =)  I've seen Geller sometimes do this.
He can make it look like he's gently rubbing the spoon when he's really 
pressing quite hard on it.  Mostly for impromptu stuff.  I once saw him
bend/break a +THICK+ solid silver spoon that belonged to some lesser member
of the royal family.  The royal was a little dismayed when Geller actually
did the trick on a piece of his own antique silverware because it (the
large spoon) cost a couple of hundred pounds at least.
  Third way: This is my complete conjecture, but there might be a way to
apply some salve or other substance to metal to make it break down chemically.
I'm not a chemist but I belive there might be something like this in existance 
that a person can handle (at least for short periods of time) without gloves.
I know there exists a "magic marker"-type pen that has an invisible 
or nearly colorless which, when "written" on a piece of metal will weaken it.
I assume it's some form of acid.  The Israelies have used this before to
sabotage aeroplanes, et cetera.
  
  Hope I have helped.  I listed some straight foreward examples because
with this kind of close/quick magic you don't really have time to switch or
otherwise misdirect people alot.
 
  Thanks,
 
-christian

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: mckellar@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael G McKellar)
Subject: Re: Gimmick problems  2/2
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:59:27 GMT

You've made some very good points Ken.  I enjoyed your post very
much. As for discussing trick via this newsgroup, I would have
agreed with you a month ago, but after joining Bruce Barnett's
email list, I don't see the need.  If you haven't joined yet,
I would highly recommend it.  WIthin the list we discuss 
illusions, how they are performed and how to improve them.  Just
based on the things you said in your post, I'm sure you would
have no problem getting on the list.  Bruce uses a questionaire
to determine if you are serious about magic.  

The kind of magic enjoy include cups and balls, chop cup, billard
balls, sponge balls, and some card and coin illusions.  I do
primarily table magic.  My favorite gimmick would have to be the
thumb tip.  I feel it is a very effect tool in magic.

I believe the things you've said in your posts are very good.

I hope to see more of them.

Mike McKellar (mgq@inel.gov)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Need Close-up Levitation
From: drbombay@netlink.cts.com (Walter Ladwig)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:52:03 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (David Brian Gumminger) writes:

> In article <1992Dec15.194736.9518@cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan 
> >
> >I'd like to know more about Copperfield's kleenex paper effect.
> >I suppose it must be watched in a dark auditorium?
> 
> I believe you are referring to the "Floating Rose" routine.  The effect was
> created by Kevin James (not Copperfield).  A piece of "tissue" paper is 
> wadded into a ball which bounces on the performers hand and even up and
> down his/her arm.  The paper is then formed into a rose shape which levitates
> in front of the performer.  The paper rose is lit with a candle (or whatever)
> and changes to a real rose.
> 
> It doesn't have to be performed in a dark auditorium, but lighting is 
> important.  If you want more specific information, e-mail me and I'll try
> to help.  Or, go directly to the source and contact Kevin James at:
> 
>       Kevin James 
>       9682 Katella
>       Anaheim, California 92804
>       (714)520-4381
>       (714)535-5237   (FAX)
> 
> You can purchase a video from Kevin James that describes the effect, the
> variations used by Copperfield and gives some tips on other similar effects.
> The tape is $60 if memory serves and comes with all you need to make the
> trick go (except the tissue).  
> 
> -- 
> David B. Gumminger
> Kansas State University
> gumby@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Anyone in San Diego happen to know of a good place to find magic 
acessories.

--                    
INTERNET:  drbombay@netlink.cts.com (Walter Ladwig)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!drbombay
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:24:41 GMT
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Subject: Revealing methods (Re: Books)
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Keywords: 

zytnia@daimi.aau.dk (Christian Vands| Andersen) writes:
> And while I'm here, I'd like to give my contribution to the
>topic "To reveal or not to reveal, that's the question". 
> We don't NEED to reveal anything. Surely we would know how
>a trick is done, or could be done. Therefore, a description 
>from the spectators point of view would be just as good.
> It's the patter and the presentation that does it, not the
>fancy moves. And the moves are different from person to
>person anyway.

I think this is a good point.

As an example -- check out the card routine posted recently by
fdeignan@vax.clarku.edu, who described only the effect from the
spectator's viewpoint (a female volunteer's selected card is chosen from
a blue deck when she blows a kiss at the deck -- the chosen card turns
red and has a red ``kiss'' imprint on it).  I'm hardly an accomplished
magician, but can think of a couple of possible ways the effect could be
accomplished, and it sounds like a wonderful effect.  I might try to
work out a method sometime.

The point is, with even a little knowledge (including knowledge of
reference materials to consult), most of us ought to be able to work out
our own version of effects from only hearing/seeing the description. 
There might be some real stumpers, but for those we pay the money and
get the appropriate reference, or consult the mailing list, or other
sources.  As we increase in knowledge, there will be fewer and fewer
stumpers.

My two cents...

Geoff

--
Geoff Allen          \  All you need in life is ignorance and confidence,
uunet!pmafire!geoff   \   and then success is sure.
geoff@pauling.inel.gov \              -- Mark Twain
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Subject: Re: Need Close-up Levitation
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:27:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.194736.9518@cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu
(Bryan S. So) writes: 
>
>If I need to purchase one or two levitation effects (or any
>kind of Spook effects) that can be watched close-up, which
>ones do you think are the most amazing and deceptive?

I was absolutely blown away the first time I saw the Levitating Dollar
Bill, by Michael Ammar.  There are several setups for it, I prefer one
that is totally portable & lets you even walk around - costs a bit
more, but well worth it.  The only thing you need to do is check the
lighting where you do it beforehand - if the light's ok, it's a
smasher, even from a few feet away.

>Are there any books dedicated or has a relevant chapter on this
>subject?

Dunno 'bout this, sorry.

>I'd like to know more about Copperfield's kleenex paper effect.
>I suppose it must be watched in a dark auditorium?

If it's done the same way as the Floating Bill, it can be quite light
- I find the position of the lighting more important than the amount.
Also what you wear can make a considerable difference.

	RA

rogue@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (The Rogue Agent)
--------------------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.

Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: karl@dixie.com (Karl Klingman)
Subject: Re: Gimmick problems 2/2
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 02:46:25 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

femanrs@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (BRUCE MANNERS) writes:


>In my experience, teenagers are just a poor audience for variety performers

Nah!  Tough audience maybe.  There is no such thing as a poor audience -- 
except at a homeless shelter.   The problem with a teenage audience is the 
same as it is with any audience.  You have to tailor your performance to them.
If you just have one patter, one routine, which you expect to be accepted
by every audience, your in for some dissapointment.  KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE.
It's true in every art form from writing to juggling.  Give them what THEY
want and they'll be a great audience -- don't and you'll be performing alone.

-- 
He who would trade his liberty for  |  Karl Klingman
short-term security deserves        |  American Research Group, Inc.
neither...   Ben Franklin           |  emory!slammer!arg!karl
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So)
Subject: Need Close-up Levitation
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:47:36 GMT


If I need to purchase one or two levitation effects (or any
kind of Spook effects) that can be watched close-up, which
ones do you think are the most amazing and deceptive?

Are there any books dedicated or has a relevant chapter on this
subject?

I'd like to know more about Copperfield's kleenex paper effect.
I suppose it must be watched in a dark auditorium?


Bryan