HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gag-Lae  Kim)
Subject: Re:think
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:24:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.201223.9905@unet.net.com> lkauk@tweety.net.com
(Kuak Lee
\
IBM Liasion with NMS) writes:

[much deleted on how to enhance the quality of this newsgroup]

>There must be a billion and a half other things to do
>and talk about. I think this forum is for exchanging ideas
>to improve AA communities in US.  THIS IS A FORUM FOR AA.
>You (AA) don`t have to defend AA roles or AA culture.
>If one puts on garbages, tell him/her politely to stop,
>or direct him/her to another forum. Don't carry on frames in
>this forum, or you'll destroy a good thing.
>
>- K.L.Lee

        Yes, there actually exist more than a billion and a half other
things to do and talk about.  But what do you think is the reason of
topic of discussion being racial and cultural issues dominating this
newsgroup? I certainly don't think that readers and posters are
discussing these issue to flame others or for arguements sake.
        Although I have disliked the times when arguements were made
on personal levels, open discussions on such topics based on personal
experience can broaden many readers perspectives of what it means to
be asian-american in u.s. which seems to be comprised of great
diversity.

Gag-Lae Kurtis Kim
gk31@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:15:16 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6ED26E9AE02C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:17:29 GMT

In article <lcf8skINNcnu@news.bbn.com> Anita Hsiung, ahsiung@bbn.com writes:
>
>We are the same species, able to inter-breed, to understand each
>other.  The capability to adapt comes from the same set of genes, so
>we have the same intelligence.  You would not say that bears in the
>North Pole are smarter than North American bears, or that African
>elephants remember better than Chinese elephants, just because they
>have different ear sizes!
>

This is an interesting point.  I remember hearing once (correct me if
I am wrong) that the difference between humans and chimpanzees is about
3% of their genes.  Just 3%.  Now, considering that, how much "different"
can the different "races" of humans be?

I also saw on Nova once that it has been shown that rats, and other mammals
in general, have an innate "genetic desire" (if you will) to mate within their
species but with others having as much of a difference in genetic structure
as possible (it is sensed through odors produced, in case you wonder).
My question to the group is, considering this, why then do most human
cultures frown upon inter-racial mating? (Whoah, not this topic. Codemn
me to s.c.a.a hell :-)  Let's just discuss why cultures in general
frown upon it). 

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| Never, never, never drink two 40-ouncers of St. Ides in one night    |
|                                   --Michael Kamprath                 |
========================================================================
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Sex, Power and the Decline of the White American Male
Summary: Iron Maze; Bridget Fonda as WF married to rich Japanese
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:05:22 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Distribution: na
Organization: The Bates Motel

shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>
>Although Japan is still a white-skin-worshipping country, Japan has 
>become sufficiently powerful that it's becoming possible to view 
>white men as having less power than Japanese men.

A movie that stiffed at the box office a year or so ago finally came
to cable on the HBO/Cinemax free preview this past weekend; I just
downloaded a reworking of Kurosawa's "Rashamon" (sp?) called "Iron
Maze" with Bridget Fonda as an upscale WF who is married to the son 
of a wealthy Japanese industrialist, and Jeff Fahey who plays a man
accused of attempting to murder the husband ... or was he set up as a
result of his crush on the Fonda character, or was it self-defence???
(I haven't seen the movie yet; don't give it away for me ...)  

I checked the tape this morning for a couple of seconds (the movie
came on overnight) and Bridget looks GREAT ...  the one scene that 
I stopped at had Fonda's character and the hubbie (both expensively
dressed) at some dive bar surrounded by a pretty rough crew harassing
them, one guy asking the Fonda character, "What I want to know is, how
much did YOU cost???"

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating FAQ (was Re: Montel Williams Show)
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:01:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: jukebox.MDAY.92Oct4110106
	<2186@usna.NAVY.MIL> <1992Sep30.220727.25293@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<92277.223633ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


      ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
 
      [a collection of arguments about interracial dating deleted,
       including the usual stuff about ugly nerdy CMs dating AFs
       and media brainwashing (yawn)]

      Some of those American men are so desperate that they would take
      any female --- last year, a 23-year-old American student (CM)
      married a 37-year-old Chinese student (AF) here in Penn State.

I find this item rather striking.  Just what is wrong with this
relationship?  You seem to think that the difference in age is enough
to make it obviously a desperate match.  A difference in age is like
any other kind of difference between people in a relationship:
sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't.

      (The past marital history is irrelevent to those desperate American
       men, as long as the girl is really a female).

I don't know what this remark means, unless you're trying to hint that
the woman was (gasp) not a virgin!

Just because you think a woman is only marriageable or attractive or
desirable when she's 18 (or more likely 15), don't assume that
everyone thinks that way.  Women are people too.  Come out of your
cave and try civilization for a change.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Centrists?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:01:28 GMT

In article <2595@tymix.Tymnet.COM> jdoskow@ichinen.Tymnet.COM (Jonathan Doskow) writes:
	[Arthur's comments on his kid deleted for brevity.]
>Do you think that a wife should stay with a husband who beats her?  Is
>that "Family Values(tm)."  How about if he kills her? (This does happen.)
>
>I'm trying to find out what you think is wrong with urging battered
>women to divorce their husbands?
>
>In fairness, since you bring these two women into your arguement, you
>should give them an opportunity to present their side, although that
>seems unlikely.
>
>When people experience suffering or loss, one of the most natural
>reactions is to look for someone to blame.  A word of advice, though.
>You will profit immensely from examining yourself to find the source of
>the problem, and not at all from blaming someone else.
>
>To give you some idea what I'm thinking about, consider this statistic
>(since you seem to put so much stock in racial or ethnic comparison.)
>
>The ratio of western_man-asian_woman:asian_man-western_woman
>interracial couples is said to be between 6:1 and 8:1.  Does that
>suggest anything to you?


I don't know what this suggests to Arthur, but it certainly suggests
to anyone who's thought about this issue that there exist marked
gender-delineated stereotypes of people of Asian ancestry in American
society.  If you are attempting to imply that Asian-American men
beat women with greater frequency than non-Asian-American men, this
suggests you have completely swallowed and accepted the racism of
this country, unless you have some concrete facts to back up your
claim.  (Hint:  The expression "rule of thumb" comes from English
Common Law, which forbade a man from beating his wife with a stick
thicker than his thumb.  Pretty enlightened towards women our wonderful
Western culture is!  Why the men even thought about limiting the size
of the sticks with which to beat their wives!)


>
>(I asked a Taiwanese friend of mine what she thought of the claim that,
>"they are stealing our women."  Her response was that some people feel
>that they are entitled to a woman.)


Yeah, must be something genetic about Asian Americans that cause
the men to be sexist pigs.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  And white
men are, of course, all perfect.  Yeah, yeah.  'cause they're white,
of course they're perfect.  Yeah.  And all blacks are either drug dealers
or basketball players.  Sure.


>
>"Family Values(tm)" indeed.
>
>...
>
	[Stuff about Republicans, divorces, and S&L's deleted for brevity.]
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>She can marry a taxi driver.  I don't care.
>
>Opinions expressed are those of the author.  jdoskow@Tymnet.COM



						--Alan Hu
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 07:38:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

My brutal honest opinion is that you dabbling in social darwininsm.

You are also mixing the "academic performance" (whatever that means) 
of a group of voluntary immigrants who are esentially from the
top of the social class of their country of origin with 
a population at large (ie non non immigrant and not from
the top of the social hierarchy).

If you see a study comparing Asian immigrants from the same
same social statra as European and African immigrants, please
let us know.

In the meantime, I hope two billion odd people in China and
India use their "superior" academic skills to get ahead in the world.

:-).

Hassan
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Census report
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:09:06 GMT

In article <4920087@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> joanne@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Joanne Petersen) writes:
>jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) asks:
>
>>Speaking of which, *for purposes of the Census Bureau's reports*, are children
>>of Asian/non-Asian marriages classified as Asian, or the other race?  Does it
>>matter what the other race is?  Do they go strictly by what you mark down as
>>your race on the form, or do they try to "guess" based on last name, etc etc?
>>I don't recall what the form looked like, or for that matter, if I even filled
>>one out.  :-)
>
>When we filled out the census, we indicated that Kiri (who is "happa", as you
>folks who've met her and my husband know) was Asian AND Caucasian (i.e., we
>checked BOTH boxes for her).  I guess they'll just have to figure it out since 
>I indicated I am of Asian descent and my husband is Caucasian (European).
>

	I remember reading a while back on comp.risks that the Census
	Bureau had spent big bucks on "advanced AI techniques" (or some
	such buzzwords) to classify people into races if they did
	"wrong" things like check multiple boxes or other.  I don't have
	any citations, so consider this hearsay.  (If anyone has a citation,
	I'd love to hear it!)

	[Other stuff on racial classification deleted.]

						--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee)
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:58:11 GMT


m-muyot@uiuc.edu (Maria Muyot) writes:
: In article <66955@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:
: 
: and according to my father, their family is part Spanish and French, 
: and all sides are mixed with Malay. Does this make me less Asian than my
: roommate who's parents are both from Shanghai? That's not fair, I was born
: in Asia and I've lived there for 19 years, while he has lived all of his
: life
: in New Jersey! So I'm brown and I sunburn, does this mean that I am also
: more likely to be less intelligent than he is???

You've answered your question in your question.  If you have a heritage
that has infusion of genes other than the Mongoloid race, then you
are less Mongoloid than your roommate.  Living somewhere for a long time
does not change your genes.  Whether that makes you less likely to 
be intelligent is not certain since it has not been established if
Asians are smarter or not.

Hyok Lee

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Montel Williams Show (Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<1a9315INNs8o@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Sep30.124428.8015@nynexst.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:20:42 GMT

   > clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

     Well I saw it.  I rushed home and would just missed the first few
     minutes because of an accident on the freeway.  Anyway I was
     disappointed in Hoyt.  He didn't get in many words, and just
     sat there looking like a passive Asian stereotype, unless I missed
     anything in the first few minutes, someone please fill me in.

     [long but interesting description deleted]

Even though I think that Hoyt Sze's writing is full of foolishness and
misdirected anger, I really felt sorry for him after reading about
this show.  I bet that he didn't realize how much of a circus it was
going to be.  There's a big difference between crafting careful
written arguments and producing sound bites in real time, and I guess
Sze wasn't ready to be loud, shallow entertainment in the way this
show seems to have demanded.  I can easily imagine myself in his
position, unable to get a word in edgewise and surrounded by babbling
idjits.

[Disclaimer: I didn't see the show, I'm only going by the various
reports that people have posted.]

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:9403 ca.politics:8481
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Centrists?
Date: Tue,  6 Oct 92 13:52:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct3.194345.15065@leland.Stanford.EDU>
  <1992Oct6.075416.27906@u.washington.edu>

On the topic of whether these "sisters in law" who left their marriages just
because they just didn't feel like being married anymore vs. the new family
values that says it's justified to leave an abusing husband, let me clarify
that I mean that even the liberal position only clearly supports divorce
if there is a good reason to do it. My point is that these women left
just because of tiny little things that strained the relationships (like
maybe having me as a brother in law...) or deciding that she was pressured
into getting married by her parents, or just any reason at all. Now, I 
suppose according to "new family values", it's wrong to put a gun to a 
persons's head and say that you can't divorce unless you've got a damn good
reason to. Any reason at all should be good enough to leave if the person
wants to leave. My point is how minor a reason this can be these days to 
make a person want to break up or walk out on a family. The same goes for
men, who have been totally ignored in this whole brouhaha. If men weren't
such !@#$% jerks, and society helped them figure out how to keep their
women from walking away from them, or spend more time with the family
instead of walking away from their responsibilities like Murphy Brown's
lover, who would completely lose if if somebody saws down a tree in a
rain forest, but thinks nothing of abdicating all responsibility to his
unborn son.
The opposite extreme is in Asian societies, when you're supposed to endure
anything for the sake of face and family. Asians have a lot of intact
families, but there's a lot of pent-up unexpressed unhappiness in there.
You can't have everything (but at least the Asians get great grades...)

I've got no statistics either way. Some Asians do abuse their spouses, but
there's not much evidence either way that it's any more or less than for
whites. The divorce rate for Asians is only half that for whites though.
Either it means Asian marriages are happier, or they're keeping it inside,
or both. Asians do have an extremely low rate of child abuse compared to
other races.

Arthur Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:20:12 GMT

In article <BvD4F7.HLz@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.172242.22521@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>The Montel Williams Show is just 1 of several brainless talk shows:
>>Vicki!, Oprah, Geraldo, Rivers, Jerry Springer (?), Whoopi plus 1, etc.
>>Donahue may not be quite that brainless, though.
>>Speaking of Mr. Sze, I suspect that he is a Chinese-cu demagogue.
>As you would say, how would you know he's Chinese-cu?  Have you met him?

Note that I am making an assertion about Chinese-cu and not Chinese-ge.
Based on Mr. Sze's writings, I said that I suspect him of being
Chinese-cu.  That's a fair statement; it is buttressed by Mr. Sze's
incredibly narrow-minded, bigotted, and very Chinese-cu "intellectual"
columns.

>Perhaps we need a new term: Dwight-cu.  Any suggestions for formally defining
>this term?

This smacks of Chinese-cu behavior.

>[twit-isms deleted to save bandwidth]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sedayao@sousa.intel.com (Jeff Sedayao)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating FAQ (was Re: Montel Williams Show)
Reply-To: sedayao@chopin.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:10:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.143636.14400@nynexst.com>, clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

[stuff deleted]

> > B). People who have the ``inferiority complex'' about their own race
> >     and just want to marry into the mainstream.
> >   I don't think any white would have this kind of symptons.  And they
> >   are THE mainstream here in U.S.A.

>   Blah, this doesn't exclude whites.  There are whites with "inferiority
>   complexes" about their own races too.  Try looking in Hawaii.  I have
>   a friend who hates being "hapa-haole", being taunted about it during
>   his school days.  I know whites in L.A. who are desparado to get a little
>   color into their family, going after Filipinos and Mexicans, for almost
>   "maximal" effect.  Some are males, others are females.  Most spend hours
>   in the sun, claiming they have a tan, when in fact it looks like crispy
>   bacon.  You don't want to tell them, so you say, "Wow, what a 'tan'!"
>   My ex-landlady would rather be leathery at an early age, than, (gasp!) pale!
>   Pale was the worse insult to many people I knew in L.A./San Diego.

This is certainly true.  I remember that in high school, Mexican and Filipino 
students would dress in certain, distinct ways.  There would be a Mexican
look and a Filipino look, and there also would be whites who would do their
best to emulate these styles.  They got the nickname of "wannabees". 

I find tanning to be a really strange idea.  Destroying one's skin for the 
sake of color!  You would think that those with lots of naturally occurring
melanin would be idealized!  My mother always gardens in long sleeve shirts.  
She would always warn me to stay out of the sun because I would "get too dark."

>   Maybe the problem with "lighter" Asians like Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans
>   is that they don't benefit from this phenomenon of whites going for color,
>   because they don't have enough.  I don't see any lack of white females
>   with Mexican, Puerto Rican and Filipino men.

Maybe they are attracted to those they perceive as "latins".

[rest deleted]

-- 
Jeff Sedayao
Intel Corporation
sedayao@chopin.intel.com
..!uunet!intelhf!chopin!sedayao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
	<MDAY.92Sep28232709@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> <BvD4oE.Hp9@rice.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:16:13 GMT

   kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:

   Nowadays, due to sex changes, you can't even say that the presence of a
   Y chromosome determines gender.  Or, alternatively, you can't necessarily
   say that primary sex characteristics determine gender.  :-)

I think the latter is correct.  Issues of gender identity have some
similarities to issues of racial identity, especially the split
between the "biological truth" and the external appearances.  In both
areas there are both people who "pass" for another type and people who
have surgically altered themselves to make the imitation more
effective.  (There is no "race-change" operation directly comparable
to a sex-change, but there are lots of people who have cosmetic
surgery to alter "racial" characteristics (Michael Jackson, are you
out there? :-)).

However, this doesn't alter my contention that the issue of "race" is
even more confused than the issue of gender, since there isn't any
definition or test comparable to looking for a Y chromosome to
determine the appropriate classification for any given person.  I
would argue that gender identity is a complex social construct built
on top of a scientific distinction, while racial identity is a complex
social construct built on top of a complex social sconstruct.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Sumo
Date: 29 Sep 1992 22:20:11 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo.sdsc.edu

Looking on page two on the San Diego Union Tribune's Current section,
I see two sumo wrestlers with the following caption.

Begin Caption.
--------------

OUTTA HERE: Komusubi Takahanada (left) captures the championship of the
Tokyo Autumn Grand Sumo tournament by bulldozing American Sekiwake
Musashimaru out of the ring for an "okuridashi" victory.

End Caption.
------------

Anybody know anything about the American (Sekiwake Musashimaru)?
Also,  does anyone know where Konishiki placed?  Are there any
other Americans worth mentioning wrestling in Japan?


Bryan Hirota
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american