HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Latin on Finnish Text-TV
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:52:27 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: riga.docs.uu.se

In article <1992Dec30.015109.145@front.se>, samuel@front.se writes:
> Does anybody of you pepole living in Finland know why Finnish Television
> is broadcasting news on text-TV in LATIN LANGUAGE (page 365 on Finnish 
> text-TV) ? 
> I think this is a very nice thing, but I cannot figure out who are the 
> 'target audience' for these broadcasts. 

I have no idea either, but I notice that also some German channel
(3SAT?) transmits text-TV news in Latin.  Maybe the Roman Catholic
church is involved?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tknudsen@ics.uci.edu (Trond Knudsen)
Subject: The Samii languages
Summary: Samii as an official language
Keywords: Samii languages
Reply-To: tknudsen@ics.uci.edu (Trond Knudsen)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:21:06 GMT

Edmund Ryan writes:

>Norway is actually a bilingual country:
>Ny Norsk and Bokmal are both offical languages.  Sami (Lapp) is
>an unofficial language.  In general, however, there is not a
>great difference in these various dialects of Norwegian.

Some information on the Samii language in Norway: North Samii is now
an official language of parts of the country, and is compulsory in
schools in these parts. North Samii is also possible to choose in the
primary school system of Oslo and some other main cities. The area of
use of North Samii is the departments of Finnmark, Troms and Nordland,
but it is the local communities that choose to be Samii and make Samii
a official language. A little less than half of the communities in
Finnmark and some in Troms (and Nordland?) has chosen to declare
themselves as Samii communities, and thereby obtain governemental
financial support for adult teaching programs in written Samii,
translation services etc..

North Samii is the most used Samii language (used by I think 20 - 30
000 in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia). However there are other
substantially different Samii languages. South Samii is used in the
south sentral part of Norway and Sweden, south of Trondheim and
Ostersund. Lule Samii is used mainly in Northern Sweden and a little
in Norway. Skolte Samii is used in the very eastern part of Finnmark
in Norway, North Finland and nortwest Russia, but has a hard time in
surviving. In addition there is the problem of influence of the
national languages in the different Samii languages, which creates
national different dialects in the same Samii language. Speaking of
literature, North Samii is richest (quantitavely speaking of course),
but there are quite a few books published in South and Lule Samii
as well. Skolte Samii has difficulties in both having a accepted written
standard and having literature printed.
-- 
Trond Knudsen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: CHRISTMAS GREETING
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 22:57:10 GMT

In article <kjell-211292145619@g0-mac2.ekti.chalmers.se>, kjell@emke.chalmers.se (Kjell Siimon) writes:
|> 
|> Hello all you Beard-Busters out there!!!!
|> 
|> I wanted to wish all readers of soc.culture.nordic:
|> 
|> ========================================================
|> I                                                      I
|> I     A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!     I
|> I                                                      I
|> ========================================================
|> 
|> Kjell the Brave
|> 
--


Same to you !


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: haavardf@boson.uio.no (Haavard Fosseng)
Subject: Re: Swiss Vote on EES ! Democracy worse than bureacracy
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
	<5510@disuns2.epfl.ch>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:57:59 GMT

In article <5510@disuns2.epfl.ch> genillou@litsun.epfl.ch (Guy Genilloud) writes:

>of course... And member states should always have the option to pull out of 
>Europe without their populations being killed, raped, etc.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the agreements that form the basis 
for the EC, makes any provisions for the possibility that one or more 
states may wish to withdraw. Any such change would thus have to be
"extraconstitutional", which would make for a rather troublesome process.

>Note that the current mechanism in Switzerland is not very good because there 
>are too many small Swiss German States. Therefore, the French and the 
>Italian parts don't get the representation they deserve... I guessed it worked
>so far because the Swiss Germans did not push their advantage too far, but
>we are now seeing the limits of the system.

I seem to remember that there was an absolute majority against, though
this changed after the referendum.


H}vard Fosseng
From: kozen@cs.cornell.edu (Dexter Kozen)
Subject: Re: Closeness of the Nordic Languages
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:47:22 GMT

ukjent@ypedhs (Tone Castellan) writes:

>In article <1992Dec28.040733.23536@odin.diku.dk> rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen) writes:
>>cb926@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edmund Joseph Ryan) writes:

>>>Are Norweigan, Danish, and Swedish similar to the extent that a
>>>speaker of one could get by with the other two?

From a native English speaker: my 2 years living in Denmark allowed me
to understand written Norwegian without any problems and maybe 50% of
spoken (at least in Oslo and the Telemark area), as long as the
conversation kept to pretty simple topics.  On the contrary, I still
can't understand spoken Swedish at all.

>(Watching swedish television from the age of 4, and having a danish mother 
>kinda disqualifies me but....)

I think in general the answer is going to be different for native
speakers and non-native speakers for reasons like this.
From: euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fredrik stman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Date: 21 Dec 92 08:10:49 GMT
Reply-To: euafri@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

Bob Hammarberg writes:
>Michael Qvortrup writes:

> >translates as 'young woman', i.e. 'jomfru', 'jungfru' and 'Jungfrau'.

> Since Latin texts sometimes refer to 'virgo intacta' there seem to be good 
> reason to believe that a distinction was made between 'virgo' = young 
> woman, and 'v. intacta' = unknown (in the old sense) maiden.  Cf. jungfru 
> vs. or|rd jungfru.

"Jungfru, jungfru, jungfru, jungfru sk{r,
H{r {r karusellen, som ska g} till kv{llen."

Sk{r of course does not mean pink, but pure/clean/immaculate.

---
         ______                     _~
        (_/_ _  _  _/) _  . /)     / ) , _/)     _
       __/ _/(_(/_(/__/(_/_/Z_    (_/_/)_/__/))_(I_/)_
From: rog@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Roger Haaheim)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:23:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Learning Norwegian
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic

Well, all I can say is that my relatives in Norway laugh 
harder when I try to speak Nynorsk than they do when I
try to speak Bokmal...  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:8046 soc.culture.german:9546 soc.culture.french:9359 alt.folklore.computers:18399
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.french,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Metric again...  (Was: 8-bit news (was Re: Commodore keyboard ...))
Date: 29 Dec 1992 05:50:43 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Dec26.001430.2803@newstand.syr.edu> ddawson@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Dick Dawson) writes:

>ascii 24 is an arrow pointing up.  Not the caret character shifted 6
>on US keyboards.  I've never seen this character on any keyboard,
>meaning some shuck & fiddle to generate it.  But maybe if we really

That's because it's a control character and is unprintable on many
systems.  As it happens that character is an up arrow on an IBM PC
style machine, it could be anything else (including nothing) on
another.

Older versions of ASCII actually have a up arrow in the position that
caret now occupies.
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: Re: What is correct: ," or ", ?
Originator: tt@tarzan.math.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:53:36 GMT

In article <41uawB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> elina@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (elina) writes:

>tt@sulla.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen) writes:
[nitpicking about commas and quotes deleted]

>WHO CARES ?

Those who wish to avoid distracting their readers by unusual
punctuation, those who don't want to make it too obvious they're
writing in a language that's foreign to them, those who are uncertain
about their message and try to balance it by excessive care about the
form, those who write word processors/formatters -- and we who love
language for its own sake and cherish the little peculiarities and
irregularities of languages: please don't take offense at our innocent
little pleasure!  If you don't like this kind of discussion, just
ignore it, put it in your kill file or something.  After all, this has
been a friendly discussion about differences between languages (and
surely languages belong to culture), not any kind of spelling flame
contest.

(BTW:  Any spelling or grammar flames about the above or indeed
any article of mine are welcome, but probably best e-mailed to
avoid annoying innocent bystanders.)

Yours truly,
--
Tapani Tarvainen  (tt@math.jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:8077 soc.culture.german:9578 soc.culture.french:9382 alt.folklore.computers:18520
From: grog@lemis.uucp (Greg Lehey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.french,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Metric again...  (Was: 8-bit news (was Re: Commodore keyboard ...))
Date: 3 Jan 93 08:40:40 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: LEMIS, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany

In article <1hoovjINNo0p@uwm.edu> anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.001430.2803@newstand.syr.edu> ddawson@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Dick Dawson) writes:
>>In article <markus.270.723221622@clement.info.umoncton.ca> markus@clement.info.umoncton.ca (MARC PA
ULIN) writes: [Quoting someone else!]
>>
>>Metric currency?  In that case...

The original metric system included a standard for currency, which is
still in use, but it has not been generally accepted. It's called the
franc, in use in at least 3 European countries. Doubtless the
difficulties of keeping the exchange rate constant were one problem.

>>In the name of European and world-wide harmony, I propose that the
>>ASCII character code 0100100 be adopted as the international symbol for
>>the ECU.  Any country that may happen already to use this character
>>is welcome to adopt the ECU as its main currency instead.

>ascii 24 is an arrow pointing up. 

not binary 0100100. That translates as '$' in ASCII. Where do you find
an arrow in modern ASCII?

> Not the caret character shifted 6
>>on US keyboards.  I've never seen this character on any keyboard,
>>meaning some shuck & fiddle to generate it.  But maybe if we really
>
>That's because it's a control character and is unprintable on many
>systems.  As it happens that character is an up arrow on an IBM PC
>style machine, it could be anything else (including nothing) on
>another.
>
>Older versions of ASCII actually have a up arrow in the position that
>caret now occupies.

Where do you people get these ideas?-- 
Greg Lehey                       | Tel: +49-6637-1488              
LEMIS                            | Fax: +49-6637-1489
Schellnhausen 2, W-6324 Feldatal, Germany
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: aki!wegmann (Frank Wegmann)
Subject: Re: Closeness of the Nordic Languages
Organization: Private/FRG
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:26:42 GMT

In article <1hl344INN9s1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cb926@cleveland.Freenet.Edu  
(Edmund Joseph Ryan) writes:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Are Norweigan, Danish, and Swedish similar to the extent that a  
> speaker of one could get by with the other two?
> 
> I read this is in a few books on the history of the English
> language. I already know German. Does that help?
> 
> Virtually,
> 
> Edmund J. Ryan

I'm not a native speaker of any of the languages you mention but as far as I  
know they have a lot in common.
Old Icelandic is an ancestor of all three languages (and, naturally, of  
modern Icelandic, too -- what about faeroic?) which can be found at its  
height during the saga period. The sagas were written down in the 13th  
century or so.
If you take a look at the history of the scandinavian countries you will find  
that they always have been in close contact and it is thus not very  
astonishing that they resemble in a certain degree.
Personally, I know Swedish to some extent, having problems not so much with  
Norwegian but with Danish. Danish is hard for my ears because their  
pronounciation is somewhat different from the other languages. At least it is  
easier to follow a norwegian (esp. swedish) discussion than a danish one.
(It is something different when it comes to reading. )

Of course it helps a bit if you know German. There are lots of words that  
have a common origin and the principal grammatical structures. At least they  
belong to the same language family (indo-european languages, germanic  
languages, to be more specific).

Hopes this could be a starting point for you.

Bye,
Frank

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Frank Wegmann		     voice    : +49 231 710 439
Schleppbahnstr.10	     InterNet : wegmann@aki.en.open.de (NeXT Mail)
W-4600 Dortmund 50	     AppleLink: WEGMANN.F (occasionally)
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
From: system@tel-cen.uucp (System Operator)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Looking for...
Date: 28 Dec 92 01:54:55 GMT
Organization: Telecommunications Central  San Diego, CA

...a mail order business in Sweden that sells music related items 
(looking mainly for CD's) to the US. Any help would be appreciated. 
Please mail me as I would probably miss a response in the newsgroup.
I will post a summary if there is enough interest. Thanks much.
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Closeness of the Nordic Languages
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:15:52 GMT
Organization: Norwegian Inst. of Tech./University of Trondheim, Trondheim,
	Norway

> In article <1hl344INN9s1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cb926@cleveland.Freenet.Edu  
> (Edmund Joseph Ryan) writes:

>> Are Norweigan, Danish, and Swedish similar to the extent that a  
>> speaker of one could get by with the other two?

>>>>> To which in article <1992Dec28.222642.1036@aki.en.open.de>, aki!wegmann (Frank Wegmann) replies:

> ...  Old Icelandic is an ancestor of all three languages
           ^^^^^^^^^Umm, we call it "old norse" here in Norway
("Gammelnorsk"). Chauvinistic, I guess, but what the hell...:-)

> (and, naturally, of modern Icelandic, too -- what about faeroic?)

Faeroic split up later from Norwegian. It has taken a lot of modern
Icelandic loan-words instead of the imported (from English mostly)
terms used in the other three languages.

It is still easier to understand for a Norwegian than modern
Icelandic.

As a reply to Edmund's original question:
 Yes, you could get by with knowing one language in the other two
contries. If nodody could understand you, you could always resorting
to writing stuff down (remember to carry one of those erasable pads at
all times...).

Or, you could resort to speaking English.

>> ... I already know German. Does that help?

> Of course it helps a bit if you know German.

Knowing German and English should get you far. Both languages have a
similar underlying structure to the Scandinavian languages. These two
languages has contributed a lot of the loan words of the Scabdinavian
languages. 

> There are lots of words that have a common origin and the principal
> grammatical structures.

Unlike German (and like English) Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish has
more or less dispensed with cases.

As far as I know Icelandic still uses cases, and I would belive
Faeroic does the same (since quite a few Norwegian dialects still do).

Old Norse had the four cases common to the Germanic languages:
 o Nominative  
 o Genitive    
 o Dative      
 o Akkusative  

> At least they belong to the same language family (indo-european
> languages, germanic languages, to be more specific).

To be even more specific:
 o English and German belongs to the eastern branch of the germanic
   branch of the Indo-european family of languages.
 o Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Faeroic, and Icelandic belongs to the
   northern branch of the germanic branch of the Indo-european family
   of languages. 

- Steinar
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Closeness of the Nordic Languages
Date: 28 Dec 92 09:18:10 GMT
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <1992Dec28.040733.23536@odin.diku.dk> rancke@diku.dk
 (Hans Rancke-Madsen) writes:

   >(It's my impression that Swedes have an easier time understanding
   >Danes than vice versa. Can anyone confirm or deny this?)

  I've never noticed this...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,rec.travel
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Subject: Re: COPENHAGEN FILE! (long) (well sort-of)
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:12:47 GMT


>>>>> "Murat" == Murat Karaorman (murat@cs.ucsb.edu)

Murat> - 95% of all Danes under thirty speak perfect English.

Hmmmm.

Murat> - America (and especially California) is very popular in
Murat> Denmark. Tell Danes that you are from Santa Barbara and you
Murat> will have an instant friend.

Or at least an audience waiting eagerly for you to demonstrate the
world-famous US ignorance.

Murat> - There is no need to tip anywhere

Highly questionable. At restaurants and hotels a tip is definitely
considered the polite behaviour. Anywhere else, though, tip is not
used.

Murat> - No matter what the size of your budget, you must take at
Murat> least one taxi ride- it is a dream

Just for the curious -- could you elaborate?

Murat> - NB Bars/discos/cafes don't get busy until at least midnite

Yup. This is something that often come as a surprise to foreigners.
Danes tend to start the evening at home and then move downtown to a
bar or whatever around midnight. Consequently city life tends to last
later into the night than you'll find in, say, London.

Murat> There are no explicitly dangerous areas in Copenhagen, but on New
Murat> Years Eve there are lots of drunk people on the streets, and
Murat> sometimes there is some trouble.

Just stay clear of policemen. Oh, and if you meet some hopelessley
drunk people, show 'em the way to the nearest ferry to Sweden.

Murat> The nastiest district is probably just to the west of
Murat> Hovedbanegaarden (Central station), but it is mostly safe to
Murat> walk there, just a little unpleasant.

Nah, Istedgade is fun. But if hookers or the odd pusher scare you,
stay clear of this area.

Murat> Cheap eating in Copenhagen is supposed to be a contradiction in
Murat> terms, but I guess it is not as bad as people make it.

As is the case in many other Capitals, the cheapest places are
Oriental, Italian, Indonesian, etc. 

Murat>    The public transportation in Copenhagen is EXCELLENT 	

At least when there's not a strike.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: ukjent@ypedhs (Tone Castellan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Closeness of the Nordic Languages
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:34:10 GMT
Organization: ypedhs

In article <1992Dec28.040733.23536@odin.diku.dk> rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen) writes:
>cb926@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Edmund Joseph Ryan) writes:

>>Are Norweigan, Danish, and Swedish similar to the extent that a
>>speaker of one could get by with the other two?

>As far as reading the languages, yes. Understanding the spoken form
>is another matter. I generally have to have Swedes repeat every
>other sentense in order to understand them. But then, there are
>danish dialects that I'd have about the same amount of trouble with.

>(It's my impression that Swedes have an easier time understanding
>Danes than vice versa. Can anyone confirm or deny this?)

It might be so, but we norwegians understand danish better than most 
swedes (my opinion) and swedish better than most danes.... 

I think we (from the Oslo region) are easier to understand (for the 
other nordics) aswell....

(Watching swedish television from the age of 4, and having a danish mother 
kinda disqualifies me but....)






>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk
>------------
>"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
>fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
>                                (after Tom Lehrer)


Geir Aage Leirvik
gl@ypedhs.no
(using Tone Castellan PC)... (Just to explain the weird from-adress.)
From: samuel@front.se
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Latin on Finnish Text-TV
Date: 30 Dec 92 00:51:09 GMT
Organization: Samuel Gustaf Siren

Hello,
Does anybody of you pepole living in Finland know why Finnish Television
is broadcasting news on text-TV in LATIN LANGUAGE (page 365 on Finnish 
text-TV) ? 
I think this is a very nice thing, but I cannot figure out who are the 
'target audience' for these broadcasts. 
/SS
-- 
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
|                      |        / \                           |
| Samuel Gustaf Siren  |      __!_/_                          |
|                      |    / \ |  / \                        |
|                      |   |/  || | \__oW)----------          |
| All opinions and     |   !! / /\ \                          |
| questions are my     |     / /  \ \                         |
| own /SS              |    //    //                          |
|                      |   /|    ((                           |
+----------------------+--------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bryan Stack)
Subject: Re: What is correct: ," or ", ?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:33:56 GMT

trones@dxcern.cern.ch (Jostein Lodve Trones) writes:

>What I am wondering about is the correct way to write the following:

>(1) "No", he said.
>   or
>(2) "No," he said.

>I would have thought (1) was correct, but reading Stephen King's "IT"
>in English I notice he uses alternative (2).

>Is there a different rule for this in English and Norwegian (or other
>languages)? Or is (2) correct all the time? Or maybe (1)?

>I use this opportunity to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New 
>Year!
>Cheers, Jostein

In American English, (2) is always correct.

God jul og godt nytaar!

Bryan Stack, momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu