HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRII: Are mages in SRII too powerful?
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:05:13 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

In article <1992Dec26.234510.16301@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann) writes:
>overmon@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes about his surplus street samurais:
>| Any of a variety of equipment, and of course, a smartgun link. And
>| don't think for a moment there aren't plenty of these guys!
>
> These guys are presumably carrying about 50,000 to 100,000 nuyen
>worth of cyberware and gear (minimum), no? In the dark depressed world
>of Shadowrun's 2050, who is funding all of this? How come people with
>cyberware worth more than a middle-income person's yearly salary are
>so plentiful?
>
> Something here doesn't add up, much like gang members with expensive
>cybermods and droolable bikes living in poverty.

Of course, in this (presumably) real world I once knew a homeless man who
carried all his clothes in garbage bags.  They included silk shirts and        
designer jeans.  As he told me "_Darling_, one may be poor, but one _must_
have PRIORITIES."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
From: agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (p-m agapow)
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:54:27 GMT
Organization: Calvin Coolidge Home for Dead Biologists

millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:

>sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:
>> Hmmm - I've had some interesting conversations with folks lately about
>> what sells in an RPG, and why.  What do you look for when you buy RPG
>> material?  Good game mechanics or good world background?

>Both.

>> I guess it comes down to this:  I feel I should pay a game designer for
>> game design, and a fiction author for setting, mood, genre, background,
>> etc.

>I expect a roleplaying game to supply me with mechanics so that my
>friends and I can have fun telling tall tales to each other, and a
>usable background so that we can concentrate on characterization and
>storytelling. If the background is especially rich in detail, or
>especially exotic, then that is even better, since it gives us scenario
>hooks and possible motives for the players to put into their characters.

Whilst (surprisingly) i've not thought about it before, my position would
be that i buy _a set of rules_ for mechanics and modules/adventures etc
for background and rules. 

The initial set of rules has to be clean and good, it doesn't have to be
exhaustive. Mind, a poor background can drag a set of rules right down (for
example, 1st edition Cyberpunk). And in some ways its difficult to divorce
a set of rules from its background in that the formulation of the rules
rely on a set of assumptions of how they are going to be used. This shows
up particularily in character generation.

Whilst i very rarely run published adventures, i tend to collect a
reasonable number of modules especially for the real-world/historical
games. For example, i religiously collected Twilight:2000 modules for the
background rather than for the skimpy adventures contained within. These
collect a large amount of information in one place that ordinarily i would
not have time to research or would not have acess to. Another excellent
example is Stefan's GURPS Swashbucklers.

Just to have a few cents the other way, some gameworlds are interesting to
read about - Jorune for example. I'd even buy some of that stuff just to
read it. But to run it using their rule system? Yerk.

Merry Christmas

p-m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul-michael agapow (agapow@latcs1.oz.au) Machine Intelligence Lab, LaTrobe Uni

        "Teenage sex, nuclear winter, Junior Miss fashion 
               & the mechanics of emotional capitalism ..."
From: cj841@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Ideas wanted...
Date: 24 Dec 92 04:28:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   I'm working on designing some worlds/cities/etc.  I'd like to
get rough ideas from as many people as possible.
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Runelords and Heroes question
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:48:58 GMT
Organization: Wharton Marketing

In article <9212200508.AA00279@latexo.cs.utexas.edu> gadbois@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois) writes:
>For the "changing history" view, we have (Y)Elmalio.  No one seems to
>know about Elmalio as an entity, and there is no record of his deeds.
>It looks like history has been wiped clean of him.  Examples of this
>sort of thing are rather scarce, since it's rather hard to speak of
>something that once had been but now has always never been.

This sounds curiously like the powers of one of the Devils, I forget which 
one. One of the devils could use Chaos so as to completely wipe the memory 
of someone from the universe. Was this Wakboth?

Perhaps this was THE offense of the God Learners, that they utilized Chaos, 
the BIG Chaos, to forever change the landscape of myth, to warp the 
personalities and powers of the gods, and the surviving gods sent their 
most fanatic followers after them in self defense, to stop the God-
Learners from warping the gods even more.

>In support of the "changing legend" view, there are plenty of cases
>where there is record of alterations of mythology -- Gbaji, the Red
>Goddess, the Syndics Ban, and so forth.  In each of these, Godtime was
>changed but folks still know about what things were like before the
>change was effected and there is a sense of "before" for all of them.

IMHO, this is by far the more common case of mythic transformation. Gbaji, 
the Trollkin curse, the Red Goddess, the Syndics' Ban, and the end of 
Jrusteli and Brithini power, are all changing legends type things. Even the 
Caladra and Aurelion is a changing legends thing, since the cult's inner 
secrets concern the mundane origins of the cult and acknowledge that it was 
created by heroquesters rather than by Gods.

I suspect that "changing history" is the result of chaos powers being used, 
and not the normal state of events in the godplane. If it were I don't 
believe the Gods would encourage their followers to learn to heroquest, 
since heroquesters would be redefining their gods' personalities here and 
there, and IMHO the gods wouldn't like being meddled with like that. In 
fact, the gods would probably suppress heroquesting as viciously as they 
suppressed the god-learner heresy.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Time am I, wreaker of the world's destruction, matured, grimly
resolved here to swallow up the worlds.             -- Krishna
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: lro@YP.melb.bull.com (Liam Routt)
Subject: Re: Elric - a new Chaosium game ?
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Australia.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:44:14 GMT

A couple of words about Chaosium, Elric and Melnibone:

Elric! is the new rpg set in the Moorcock universe. While I do not know the
details of the reason for the change, I do know that they felt that there were
a number of inconsistencies and bad choices made in the original game, and they
felt that it was time for a change. The new system looks pretty good, and is 
somewhere between RuneQuest and Pendragon - the combat is a bit more like
RuneQuest, in my opinion, although it does not have hit locations, and it does 
have the Stormbringer armour (roll a dice for your armour); there are some
personality style choices in the chracter generation, which I felt were
reminiscent of Pendragon, although there were no direct links. Like RQ, though,
most characters seem to have some sort of magic. Please, though, don't go off
flaming the contents of the game, as I have only been involved in playtests,
and the final form may be quite different...

Now, the new system has delayed the release of supplements, such as Melnibone,
as far as I know... they have to make sure that the new material suits the new
system... The supplements which are in the works, though (which _do_ include
a dynamite Corum book) seem to be top-notch (as the material has been since
Mark Morrison took over the editing of the line)... I'd say that its well
worth the wait...

Finally, Mr. Morrison suggests that anyone who is hopelessly appalled by the
release schedule should pick up a pen and write some scenarios for them - they
are always looking for good material!

None of this information is "official", so your milage may vary...


--
						Liam Routt
	"Murder by Pirates is Good!"		Senior Software Engineer
		-The Princess Bride		Bull Information Systems
						Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:10387 rec.games.board:12830
From: Patrick_Andrew_Barnes@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:06:15 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <rleroux1.725750755@sol.UVic.CA>

Roger, you disagree with Arthur Adams' statement that it is a bad idea for
TSR to sell non AD&D games.  You said that you can't judge it by a comparison
with D&D because D&D is like the IBM of the gaming industry.  Well, just
compare their non-AD&D releases to other releases in the same genre by other
companies.  TSR loses every time.  TSR released the first role playing game
and grabbed the lion's share of the gamers while the industry was still
in its infancy.  They had virtually no competition and established a niche
for themselves.  But if you look at everythign they have done since then,
they are utter failures.  If TSR had been started up a couple of years after
it was, and Chaosium or GDW had gotten there first, then TSR would now be
a dead company.  They survive by endlessly extending AD&D and orienting
towards young gamers who are attracted by simple rules and pretty graphics.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:25:34 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <clanti55.725004518@ursa>, clanti55@ursa.calvin.edu (Christopher Lantinga) writes:
|> I agree with your easily offendedness.  That's what always pissed me
|> off about Ars Magica: it purported to be a game drawing on really
|> realistic medieval assumptions and turned out to be far less about
|> Europe, real or Mythic, as about the peculiar creative inventions of a
|> bunch of Californians who can't even write good Latin. I like a set of
|> game rules that doesn't design a BACKGROUND.

Hey!  The authors of AM were from Minnesota though they've abandoned us
now.  Someday they'll see the error of their way an return, though.  :-)

(Lion Rampant Games used to be based in Northfield, a small town just
 south of Minneapolis and NW of here)
-- 

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
From: cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:49:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

When looking for a game, I look for something -new-, something interesting, 
be it mechanics or BG or whatever.

For example, I snagged NIGHTLIFE because I liked the background ideas, and 
the concepts presented. The rules -stink-, and the production values are 
non-existant, but I -love- the ideas presented; I am going to -have- to stick
Golgotha in one of my campaigns somewhere.....

On the other end; I picked up Dream Park because it had a really neat rules
system; it's also the most user-friendly RPG it's ever been my pleasure to 
read. The background is neat, but nothing really impressive; but I'd really
like to use it at a convention one of these days to introduce a bunch of 
non-RPers to the concepts.

Each of these games had something of interest to me. A neat BG is good, 
because I can always convert it to GURPS or Hero if the rules bite ( :> ), and
neat game mechanics are good because I'm always looking for innovations to 
adapt to something else. 

-- 
    "Well, do you ever get the feeling that the Story's too damn real
                        and in the present tense?"
               Christian Wagner - cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Citizen Lemming <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: Rifts Weapon's rate of fire
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
	<RATINOX.92Dec28214336@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<1992Dec29.163234.10415@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:39:28 GMT

>>>>> On 29 Dec 92 16:32:34 GMT, coult@siegel.geom.umn.edu (Nicholas Coult)
>>>>> said:

Nicholas> Let me make a few points, which if you looked a little more
Nicholas> closely at the rules, you might understand why it's not as bad as
Nicholas> it sounds.

Nicholas> 1. A handgun could only do this if it had a payload of 20 shots.
Nicholas> Many of the more powerful handguns have only a 10 shot payload.

Whoopie. Now a handgun does dame *equal* to the Boom Gun or some such.
Gimmie a break.

Nicholas> 2. For the handgun to do this, it would take 2 melee actions
Nicholas> instead of 1 for the GB gun.

Irrelevant to the point that handguns *shouldn't* be this powerful.

Nicholas> 3. The GB Gun is firing a burst, whereas the handgun is firing
Nicholas> wild (no bonus to strike.)

Bzzzt! The Boom Gun is firing a single shot. it is incapable of firing
bursts or wild (according to the rulebook).

Nicholas> 4. The GB gun has a range of over 2 miles, while most handguns
Nicholas> can only shoot about 800 feet or so.

Granted.

Nicholas> 5. The damage multiplier for a full clip has been changed from
Nicholas> 10x to 7x.  This is in the Conversion book, so I guess you can't
Nicholas> be blamed for not knowing this.

Still, it puts shoulder arms in the damage category of vehicle mounted
cannon. This is what I find hosed in the mechanics.

Nicholas> I think what's hosed is your _understanding_ of Palladium's
Nicholas> mechanics.

Not when they keep changing them. As you mention, they *do* change the
multiplier for emptying a clip in a supplement (which I neither have nor
want). They should have gotten things right the first time. Or at least
close, anyway.

--Rat                               PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
It's hard to bargle nawdle zouss/With all these marbles in my mouth
                                     --`Weird Al' Yankovic, Smells Like Nirvana
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:06:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.195744.525@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
|> Avalon Hill's decision to not make RuneQuest products purely 
|> Glorantha. RuneQuest players want Glorantha!
speak for yourself.  Personally I am getting just a wee bit sick
of elves and trolls.
From: lev0@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ron Levy (Armchair))
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Ritual magic and quickenings
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:32:34 GMT
Reply-To: lev0@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Worshippers of Yig


>Can a ritual magic spell be spell locked?  Quickened?

Depends on the spell.  If it's not instantaneous, sure...  The ritual
magic part only comes in when you have a bunch of mages all working
together for several hours.

>On one hand, it seems like this is the right way to permit really
>powerful items and enemies into the game, and I don't think there's
>anything against it in the rules.

The rules need a little help.  The Shadowrun games I've been in start 
with the rules as a bare framework, and build an actual magic system
with reasons and rationales around it.

>On the other hand, it's probably
>too powerful; even a smallish and fairly weak group, such as a typical
>initiatory group, could create a quickened (force 6) combat sense with
>two dozen successes, at the relatively trivial cost of 6 karma. 
>Has anyone mulled over this issue before?  Any ideas how to handle it?

The usual fix I've seen is to not allow a number of successes greater
than the force of the spell, for quickened or spell locked spells.  So
the max you would get on a force 6 combat sense is 6 successes.
For barrier spells the barrier force stays at the force of the spell.

If a mage is actually holding up the spell (and taking +2 to all his
target numbers) then he can hold up the bonus successes.  He can't
possibly stay awake more than a day or so, but with two dozen successes
on that personal combat sense spell, the ninja is going to be pretty nasty...



-- 
Welcome to the Hotel CaineFiona
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:04:59 GMT
	<1992Dec22.172644.18800@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Dec22.204010.18501@news.uiowa.edu>
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.

durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes:
>This brought to mind a couple of thoughts about book worlds vs.
>gaming worlds.  Steffan said something about how if he wants a
>good world, he'll turn to fiction.  Why exactly?  Fiction has 
>no monopoly on interesting worlds.  There's no reason I can 
>think of why a good game designer shouldn't come up with a 
>world every bit as interesting as a good writer.  It's merely 
>our prejudice that tells us game designers aren't as creative 
>in that area.

Probably true, but if the game designer is really good at mood,
background, setting, etc., he'll probably also write fiction (as Mike
Stackpole does) because it pays better.

And, obviously, not all fiction writers can write well, or create a
good game atmosphere.  But I have found a much higher percentage of
working worlds inspired by fiction than by made-for-gaming worlds.  The
exceptions are those worlds, as others have pointed out, where things
are only outlined, and much is left to the individual to fill in.  An
example of this is the Yrth of the very first GURPS Fantasy (1987?),
which is only vaguely defined, with huge areas left blank.  We had a
blast in this world - three of us ran games in it, and we all knew the
ground rules of the general societies, but most of it was undiscovered
territory that the GM filled in.  And we had some *great* fill-ins!
Then along came GURPS Fantasy, 2nd edition, which was the same world,
damn near all filled in.  It is, IMO, a very poor supplement, and not
1/10 as exciting as the Yrth we had created.

But this is off the topic: when I *do* find a work of fiction that would
be great to game in, it's a snap to set a game there.  Things are very
well worked out - you feel you've been there.  Examples include Dumas and
Sabatini for swashbuckling games, Vance, Brin and Brackett for SF games,
and Vance, LeGuin, and Howard for Fantasy games - I've run games in all
those worlds, and they worked and went over well.  Also Burroughs for
pulp-genre, and Adams for bunnies :-).  This doesn't mean I didn't make
changes - of course I did - but the changes were very easy to make.

OTOH, trying to run a game in 2nd edition GURPS Fantasy, or Forgotten
Realms, would require so many changes as not to be worth it for me.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
From: jrd@bnr.co.uk (J.R.Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: How is Stormbringer?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:26:21 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.49

In article <1992Dec20.043655.14912@netcom.com> jgrace@netcom.com (Joseph Grace) writes:
>Does anybody play Stormbringer?  Any comments?
>
>Thanks,
>
>= Joe =

Pretty good game. Eay to pick up and run with minimal hassle. Good
world.  Rules are pretty primitive, but easily hacked and suitable for
the style of the game.  Good supplements, especially the newer ones
(Pan Tang, Young Kingdoms, Rogue Mistress - haven't seen Purple towns
one yet).  Wish they could decide on the sorcery system, which is being
constantly rewritten.  Most of the scenarios only work for very
experienced characters/sorcerors, though, and a high rate of character
death seems to be an assumption in the game.  Can be more horrifying
than Call of Cthulhu, as well as more lethal!

			-jrd
			

Internal:  John Davis - Sysmgr HK10-14 - T4E East end HAL02 - Ext. 3618
External:  J.R.Davis@bnr.co.uk - +44 (0)279 403618
From: pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Date: 31 Dec 92 19:57:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C053G2.FD2.1
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <24528@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (J. Johnston) writes:
>What I find odd about good gamers is that they come from all walks
>occupations.  Any number (one of the best FRP'ers and puzzle-solvers
>I've met, for instance is terminally dyslexic) are from occupations

Terminally dyslexic??? This person is going to die from dyslexia??

If this is true, please tell me. I had no idea it could be that severe...

-Me




-- 
[Pooh Bear incarnate.                                             ]
[H1 C+ F+ W G+ K+ S+ R- E+ P                                      ]
[                                                                 ]
[To email, please make sure to mail to pooh@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu]
From: hummell+@pitt.edu (Andrew G Hummell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Palladium/WotC Lawsuit--How You Can Help
Keywords: Palladium, Address
Date: 24 Dec 92 06:13:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <GOLDM.92Dec21145438@sage4a.rpi.edu> goldm@rpi.edu (Mitchell E. Gold) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>
>Unless they've moved, the address in the Palladium Role Playing Game is:
>   Palladium Books
>   5926 Lonyo Ave
>   Detroit, MI 48210
>--
> Mitchell Gold     /  middleman of
> sundance@rpi.edu /  rec.games.frp.archives

I just got an order from Palladuim yesterday, and, according to the catalog,
they have moved (mail will probably still get forwarded to the new address.

The new address is:

	Palladium Books Inc.
	12455 Universal
	Taylor, MI 48180

Now for my $0.02 on the subject.

I can see both sides on this matter.  I really can't blame Palladium if they
are trying to preserve their trademarks, but I am on the side of WotC and I
wish them all the best in their defense. 

Remember, Palladium Books is Kevin Siembieda's livelyhood.  If it goes belly-up,
he is out of a job.  This would account for his paranoia where matters of his
company and his game systems are concerned.  I doubt that any of you would
do anything different if your livelyhood (and that of your family) depended
on a company that you owned and operated.  I know that *I* certainly wouldn't
risk losing my trademarks if my lawyer told me that there was a danger of
just such an occurance.

I intend to write Palladium and express (politely, of course) how I feel
about this lawsuit.

Andy 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm not insane...just a reasonable facsimile."  | Hummell@vms.cis.pitt.edu
   -- me				           | Andy Hummell     230 DLH 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------