HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Masoretic variants
Date: 13 Sep 1992 19:46:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu

In article <88785@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <18tg5gINNik9@agate.berkeley.edu>, rice@enterprise (Daniel S. Rice) writes:
>>Unfortunately for the BHS, the Masoretic texts used by different
>>communities differ from each other in only a few places,
>
>What are these variants?  In Chumash, there's aleph-vs-hey in Ki Tetse,
>and there are two places with discrepancies in Esther.  (Lubavitch custom,
>eg, is to read those latter two both ways on Purim.)  Any others?
>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

	I don't have a list on hand.  My source for this is the book
_Keter Aram Tsovah veha-nusah ha-mekubal shel ha-Mikra_ by Mordechai Breuer,
which although in Hebrew contains an English translation of its excellent
introduction.  It contains extensive tables of variants between a number
of famous manuscripts and printed editions.  The two main Masoretic variants
are the Ashkenazi and Temani (Yemenite) versions; Breuer shows that where
these conflict, the Temani tends to be backed up by the majority of ancient
manuscripts.  Many communities kept an authoratative codex which was used
as the reference for new Torah scrolls; the Yemenites, however seem to have
simply copied each generation of scrolls from the preceeding one and still
achieved 100% accuracy, if Breuer is correct.  This surely ranks as one of
the most remarkable preservations of an ancient text anywhere.
	I suppose I could type in at least the Ashkenazi/Temani differences,
since there are only about nine of them.  The differences between BHS and
either Mesorah runs to perhaps 80 or 90.  The files available for ftp
on my machine, enterprise.berkeley.edu, include a version of the Torah
(_not_ Nach) with changes made to turn it from BHS (i.e., Leningrad) into
Temani.

						Dan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Follow-up - Polish-Jewish history - Home Army WWII
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:53:48 GMT
Keywords: References Jews Poland Home-Army Government-in-Exile

In article <dobo.716048627@swalwell>, dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz) writes:
> avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Then, there were tens of thousands of Jews doing the same, even though it
> was destroying their very nation. How about "King Haim I" of Lodz, how
> about the Judenpolizei?
> 

Chaim Rumkowski was and is today still, a very difficult case in ethics.
His speaches make one think that he really was just trying to save
as much of the community as he could, stalling for time.  Some people
thought he was just running his own little doomed kingdom for ego
gratification.  I certainly believe
that by taking up arms they would have done better
(resistance survival rates were around 50%, the Polish-Jewish population
in general at most 20%).  Unfortunately not until 1948 did this become
the Jewish way.  Although rumors did come into the ghetto
about Aushwitz and Treblinka, most didn't want to believe it, so
the seriousness of the problem wasn't truly comprehended.  In The Lodz
Ghetto (book that is) it states that Rumkowski was beaten to death
by fellow Lodzers in the ante-chamber to the gas chamber.

> The difference is: many living Poles have blood on their hands, while the
> collaborating Jews paid with their lives.
> 

My major worry here, and for Europe is how much poison have these
people (as well as the Byellorussians, Ukrainians, Hungarians,
Romanians who collaborated) have passed on to their children.

> W. Dobosiewicz
> 
> P.S. Adam, I am awaiting the rest of the story, particularly the Hebrew
> texts in Polish!

I can't help here, but I do know that lots of early Polish coinage
was minted with Hebrew on it.  Check the Encyclopedia Judaica,
in the article "Poland",
I recall they even have a picture of one there.  I gather Jews
as well as being money-lenders and tax collectors were also
the chief minters for early Eastern Europe.


		Seth Rosenthal


Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:26:53 GMT
Keywords: Berkowitz

In article <1992Sep7.161550.2761@cs.tulane.edu> js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann) writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.152249.202700@uctvax.uct.ac.za> naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>>article <1992Sep2.230012.12432@spss.com>, leonid@spss.com (Leonid Feygin) writes:
>>>>Or David Berkowitz, aka "Son of Sam".
>>
>>David Berkowitz was not Jewish, he was a Satanist. If you give up Judaism
>>to worship Satan, you are no longer Jewish.

This is not according to Jewish law, which assumes one may always
do teshuvah and start to act according to Jewish law again.

>I heard that Berkowitz was born of Italian ancestry,
>but was adopted by a Jewish family.
>
>If he did not have an Orthodox conversion and upbringing
>(unlikely), then he might not even have _ever_ been Jewish.

I do not know if he was of Italian ancestry or not, but he was not
born Jewish and he never converted, and was not Jewish.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: taschr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Looking for Zmood
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:53:30 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

HELP!! loking for Dan Zmood
Read a post from Dan Zmood on scj about two weeks ago but I find  I find i
I've lost his e-mail address @ monash u.  Can anyone oblige?
Ted Schramm

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: keithg@halibut.nosc.mil (Keith Gunter)
Subject: subscribe 
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <keithg@halibut.nosc.mil (Keith Gunter)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:58:43 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re:  Not a Charm?
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:42:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.155957.13166@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>>The letters on the outside of the mezuzzah, Shin, Dalet, Yud are one
>>of the names of G-d.

>Is this really a name of G-d?   Or is it kEl Shadai?

If I can have two names in Hebrew, al achat kamah ve-kamah, God can have
two names. \8-)

>Is Elyon (by itself ) also a name of G-d? [ When applied to angels,
>it is malachay elyon. ]

My impression is that almost every word in the Hebrew language (except, 
perhaps, felafel) is a name of God.

Shalom (also a name of God),

Yehudah Aryeh ben Ya'akov Nusbacher (all of which are my names)
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Conservative Halacha (was re: Orthodox Monopoly)
Date: 10 Sep 1992 00:26:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep8.223245.24953@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

[. . .]
>As examples, some of the more well-known responsa are. . .
>
>   - Is commercial wine prepared in the United States treife (no)

This example brings up my problem with the Conservative approach to halachah.
One reason that wine prepared by non-Jews was forbidden to be consumed by
Jews was the fear that permitting it would lead to excessive fraternization
between Jews and non-Jews and eventually intermarriage.  Since the problem
with intermarriage is greater now than ever before, one might argue that if
the RA were really interested in applying their halachic theories, they would
have declared that *all* alcoholic beverages produced by non-Jews are forbidden
to Jews.

See, if you're going to return to the Talmudic approach to halachah, I don't 
see how you can merely use it as an excuse to find kulot (leniencies) as the
rabbis often went way out of their way to be more machmer (stringent) than
the literal Torah law (e.g. laws of niddah, kashrut, Pesach, etc.).  So here's
my question for all you Conservative types out there:  in what areas of 
halachah is the official Conservative position more machmer than even the most
liberal Orthodox position?  In what areas has the RA chosen the more machmer
path?  I can think of no examples of the first.  The only examples I can think
of offhand of the second (although there are undoubtedly more that escape me
at the moment) are the decisions to forbid practicing homosexuals from the
rabbinate, and the rejection of Reform conversions.  The decision not to allow
female cantors was not, as far as I know, made by the RA, and in any case it
was overturned by the head of JTS.

					Richard Schultz
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Theme bar/batmitzvahs
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:57:18 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <frank2.3@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:

>An alarming trend has developed in the Jewish community in 
>South Africa. Not only are inordinate amounts of money being spent on 
>batmitzvah and barmitzvah receptions, but they now frequently have themes. 
>Decorations, invitations, food and speeches revolve around themes such as 
>Disney, space, chess, etc. There appears to be little awareness of the 
>mitzvah itself.

>Is this something we have imported from elsewhere, or can we claim the 
>questionable honour of having developed this all by ourselves?

It is not unique to your country.  When I was going to classmates' Bar
Mitzvah parties there was an occasional theme party.  At more than one the
Mitzvah part was completely lost and the Bar part only meant "as in
drinks."  That was nearly 20 years ago.

It is even more prevalent now.

If the 20 mark helps date how long it's been done at all, you can use it
to compare with how long it's been happening in S.Africa.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:08:22 GMT

saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>>I do not know if the Nazis only had one target (implied by S.Saal's
>>>"the Jews were the Nazis' target"). What about the Gypsies? Were
>>>they not a target, or are Gypsies Jews?

>I imply no such thing.

Look-up "the" in a dictionary (pay special attention to the distinction
between the and a/an), and you will find that you did imply this:  Jews
= THE Nazis' target = THE target of the Nazis != A target of the Nazis.


MB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Jews in space.
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:36:32 GMT

In <4178@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:

>Quoting my cousins (Religious Zionists :-> ):
>They had heard (I cannot remember where from) that the simple answer
>is that there are simply some places where JEWS are just not meant to be.

While there most certainly is a place where Jews are meant to be, this
does not mean that we're not allowed to ask for a passport at the
Interior Ministry.  I'm sure some day there will be Israeli diplomats,
business-people, and probably even shlichim (and yes, we'll still call
it aliya) in space.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Kashruth of wine
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:38:21 GMT

CARIAN@auvm.american.edu writes:

> The issue of Conservative Judaism and wine has been widely misunderstood.
> 
> The original tshuvah of Rabbi Isaac Klein z'tzl ...

> A subsequent tshuvah of Rabbi Elliot Dorff reconsidered the question.
> ...

> Rabbi Dorff's position, excepted by the Law Committee, is that use of
> non-certified wines is to be strongly discouraged. Nevertheless since
> many many people who otherwise observe kashrut are in the habit of
> drinking non-certified wines and it is a custom which has become
> widespread, people who persist in drinking them should not be considered
> as people who do not keep kosher.
> 
> Before attacking this reasoning remember that it is the same reasoning
> why most Orthodox authorities will not rule that smoking is forbidden
> by halacha. It should be forbidden, but since many otherwise observant
> people do smoke and we don't want to label them sinners we can't
> ban smoking.

The analogy is invalid.  In the case of wines, the Conservative
movement diverged from the generally accepted view of kashrut in
wines.  They are the ones to have lead people astray.  Now they
reconsider.  Lo and behold, we find many people drinking the stuff.

With smoking, the generally accepted approach was ALWAYS permissive,
perhaps even not discussed.  New information comes to the fore, and
the Rabbis re-examine the issue.  Some do, perhaps, allow it.  But
many have forbidden it, at somewhat different levels.  Some have
said that it is forbidden.  Others have said that it is forbidden
to start smoking, taking into account the difficulty many may
have in quitting.  Granted it took far too long for them to come
up with these responsa.

BTW, when did the Conservative movement outlaw smoking?

Pretty liberal, eh?

> Anyway, I do hope that Conservative Jews who take the time to study
> the situation will reconsider their use of non-certified wines.

Agreed.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: On Qadish
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:12:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.162822.18042@ddsw1.mcs.com>, dattier@ddsw1.mcs.com (David W. Tamkin) writes:
|> Then someone other than the rabbi, someone at the minyan who has lost at
|> least one parent, could say qaddish.  How often does their minyan have only
|> people with two living parents?

I would guess that in Youth minyans and the like, it is not so rare.  In YU,
we'd regularly have a minyan for Maariv on the floor of our dorm (usually with
just ten participants or a couple more), and often there was nobody willing to
say Kaddish because everyone had both parents alive.
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      |  "Ronald Reagan??  The ACTOR??
Bellcore            |   Then who's *Vice* President - Jerry Lewis?!"
Piscataway, N.J.    |  "Marty, he's in a '46 Ford, we're in a Delorean;
(908) 699-8800      |   he'd rip through us like we were tinfoil!"
From: jeffs@lsil.com (Jeff Spiegel 4291)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Lamed, Lightning, and SS
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:43:08 GMT
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

BERNSTEIN,AVRON P (gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote:
> 
>Someone posted that the SS logo was taken from two lameds.  I'm sure that there
>are MANY possibilities as to what they are and why they were chosen.  For 
>example, in a presentation about Satanism, a Christian group on campus here
>claimed that the SS logo was lightning bolts.  

The similarity in shape between lightning and the lamed is probably significant
			   /_
		            /
even in Judiam.  The fact is that there are allusions in Ezekiel to visions
of lightning in the Merkavah.  These visions are the basis of the Tree of
Life containing the Sefirot.  The lightning bolt represented an image of 
transmission of power from on high to the worlds below.  This is analogous
to descending through the Sefirot from Keter to Malchuts.

Interestingly, when lighting touches down and is photographed in slow 
motion, there is a parallel bolt that reaches up from the earth to touch
the bolt from heaven.  Physically this is all based on electron potential
differentials, but this is meaningful spiritually as well.

			.\'

			/
  bolt from heaven ->  /
	              /___	
			 /
			/  <- bolt from earth
		       /
			
		   our world

The lightning bolt reaching up represents the path from Malchuts to Keter.
The Bahir alludes to the fact that our relationship with G-d is a two
way street.  A stirring from the forces from this world produce a stirring
of forces in heaven.  Our reaching up to G-d results in G-d reaching down
to us.  In addition, we are partners with G-d to the extent that we are 
integral to this process.  On Yom Kipur, may it be through our prayers and
deeds and G-d's mercy that there will be a response from on high.

____________________________________________________________________________

    .\'

     O  
    / \
   O   O        js
   |   |
   O   O                Santa Clara, California
    \ /                 6 March 1962 20:35 (-5:00 GMT) 73'58W 40'33N 
     O 
    / \
   O   O        "We cannot know what G-d is,
    \ /          but we have an innate conviction
     O           that He exists, and we feel
     |           that philosophy without religion
     O           is a dark and hopeless thing"
From: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU (Jonathan Baker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Electricity on Shabbat (was Conservative Halacha)
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:53:19 GMT
Organization: Courant Institute, New York University

I recall a few months ago someone posted here (or was it on Genie?) a summary
of something written by R' Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, a sage of the last 
generation.  About 30-40 years ago, he wrote an article that went 
through the 39 melachos of shabbat, investigating each in relation to
electricity to see if use of electricity violated any one of them.  He found
that electricity did NOT fit any of the melachot, not fire, nor building,
nor anything else.  However, he concluded with the statement that the
Chazon Ish, a sage of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, had banned
electricity on shabbat, so it was forbidden on shabbat.  
	This argument gives me two problems:
	1) It is an example of proof by blatant assertion (on the part of
the Chazon Ish), even when there is compelling evidence to the contrary.  I
don't buy this kind of argument (yet), so I still use electricity on
Shabbat.
	2) If electricity is conclusively proven not to be fire or building,
but is still forbidden, this eliminates the basis for all the rules we have
today for the use of electricity on shabbat.  All the rules about timers,
about asking gentiles for help, about using locks and radios and air
conditioners, are based on the assumptions that electricity is fire.
If electricity is forbidden, but it is not fire or building, then we can't 
use it at all, not even in the limited form that people use it today, since
its use cannot be derived from the laws about using fire or building things.
	
	A friend sympathized about my problem no. 1, and said that this was
why we need a sanhedrin, to resolve such disputes.  So here's an unrelated
question.  Apparently, convening a sanhedrin does not need to wait for the
Messiah.  There was an attempt to do so in the 1500's, but it failed.  Does
anyone know anything about this?  It's supposed to be possible, based on some-
thing in the Mishneh Torah, as a precondition to Messiah.

     ---+  ||  --+  --+
        |        '    '             Jonathan J. Baker
     ---+-                          baker@robocop.nyu.edu
From: karner@apap4.pap.univie.ac.at
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: test...please ignore
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:31:52 GMT
Organization: Vienna University Computer Center

test
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:44:20 EDT
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Orthodox Monopoly

1. Regarding Conservative rabbis and niddah:

I live next door to a large Conservative synagogue which has a mikvah in it.

Folks,observance or non-observance of niddah is not something people tend
to talk about. I don't ask my colleagues how many of them observe and how
many don't.

But, I have seen some colleague's wives coming out of the synagogue
building with wet hair :-).


2. Regarding the estrangement of Rabbi Weiss- HaLivni.

True. Subsequent to the decision to ordain women he left the faculty of
JTS and took a position at Columbia. Rabbi David Novak also left JTS
and took a position at the University of Virginia.

Within the last couple of years they have also started a rabbinical
school called the Institute of Traditional Judaism. Rabbi Novak,
who is a close friend, tells me it is going strong with about twenty
students.


Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Organization: liver ---> spleen
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.150235.17992@sarah.albany.edu>
pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:

>In article <1992Sep10.125927.21904@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

>>Second.  I _never_ said ALL Poles are/were antisemitic.  I refer to those
>>that are/were antisemitic and to those who would like to hide this evil
>>part of Polish history and sociology.

>  You could have begun the discussion with this sentence and save us
>a lot of time.  I have no problem with what you just wrote and I agree
>with you.

>  Nevertheless please note that to refer to "Nazi camps" as Polish
>puts some kind of collective guilt on Polish people which now
>I understand was not your original intention.

But all I did was defend and reiterate whatthe newpaper article had done.
It was the person who complained about the article that claimed the
article presumed collective guilt.  I don't/didn't agree and defended the
newspaper.  In the reworded letter I hacked I made no statements about
_ALL_ Poles, only about those that would revise/hide that part of Polish
history.  Find the article and read it again.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: osinski@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Marek Osinski)
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 00:22:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep2.124816.6393@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <matthew.715307895@mugga> matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek
>Blasikiewicz) writes:
>
>>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>(I compared the percentage of Jews saved in Denmark and Poland)
>
>>Also, it is much easier to save 0.2% of the population of a country by
>>hiding them, than it is to save 10%. Don't you think so?
>
>Especially when at all levels there is the desire to do so.
>
>But my point is that ~99% of that .2% was saved.  Attempts to save
>Polish Jewry came nowhere near that (even if I accept your .2 and 10
>percents and even if you cut my 99%).

Would you care, Sam, to convert those percentages (.2% in Denmark and
whatever percent should apply for Poland) into real numbers? How many
human beings (not percentages) were saved in both countries? And how
many boats would it take in either case?

Another question: Do you know what was the penalty for helping a Jew to 
hide or escape in Denmark and what was it in Nazi-German-occupied Poland?

Marek Osinski