Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Date: Mon,  5 Oct 1992 01:22:00 -0400 
From: Mark Joseph Andy <ma1w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: We are sick and tired!!
	<1992Oct1.034910.19672@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>

Howdy,

Get a grip Chuck.

car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes:
> Ask your buddy if he reads all the
> text in all the articles and advertisements in every motorcycle magazine he 
> picks up, as well as the page numbers, bingo cards, the publisher's legal
> disclaimer, and the editorial staff listing.  If he says "no", tell him
> to try the same filtering techniques here that he employs to avoid reading
> all that stuff in the magazines.  If he says "yes", send him over to 
> alt.bizarre.  He'll fit right in.

Uh, I usually do.  That makes me bizarre???  I thought I was just
suffering from a lack of sufficient motorcycling literature.

> And your notions concerning how rec.motorcycles ought to be sanitized would 
> be better posted in alt.censor.wannabe, IMNSHO. 

I don't believe he was suggesting any change whatsoever in rec.mc.  He
was suggesting a group devoted to technical questions and answers.
This allows folks who don't want to have 8 gigabyte kill files and
have to sort through posts to read, post, and learn from a more
focused area.  It may come as a shock to you, but many folks don't
care about the social commentary, or (like me) are more interested in
technical discussions.  No one is saying that the social stuff is bad,
rather they are saying that they would rather not have to deal with it.
> BTW, creating subgroups in an attempt to control the CRAP doesn't appear
> to be a viable strategy for rec.moto.  The CRAP increases monotonically
> anyway.  I know this sounds far-fetched, but maybe, just maybe a *lot*
> of riders *like* the CRAP.  That would explain much, wouldn't it?

You're missing the point.  No one is trying to get the crap level in
rec.mc to reduce, rather they are trying to make the non-crap stuff a
little more visible and easier to access.

> Helpful hint #1:  The most successful strategy by far for creating a
> forum optimized to satisfy the desires and needs of a *single* rider
> is the mailing list mechanism.  This particular technique has been
> successfully carried out at least twice in the last two years by two
> riders whose "disappointment" was voiced in exactly the way you voice 
> yours.  They successfully created their own little empires and now get
> to hear only what they want to hear from those they consider deserving
> of their attention.  Perhaps you'd be happier there.

Are you this much of an arrogant ass all the time?  I'm familier with
two mailing lists, 2strokes and the race list.  Both make no attempt
(beyond extrememly minor self-policing) to control subject matter.
There have been "non-relevant" discussions in both.  However, unlike
rec.mc, the technical stuff has been predominent.  This reflects the
desires of ALL the posters/readers.  However, there are some big
problems with mailing lists.  Depending on your software, they may be
more difficult to deal with.  They certainly are more difficult to
find.  And some folks can't receive e-mail (but can get netnews
bboards.).  Why is a list such a better solution than a subgroup?

> Helpful hint #2: Get a sense of humor and learn to think for yourself.
> The application of these two attributes far transcends their utility in
> rec.motorcycles.  Hell, you might even develop a taste for CRAP.

Cool.  How the hell does that apply to the discussion at hand?

> Helpful hint #3: If you want a question answered, be creative when you
> post it, and try to make reading it an interesting experience.  A bigger
> audience increases the likelihood that someone will have the answer.  An
> innovative approach increases the likelihood that that someone will be 
> motivated to respond.  This may come as a shock, but after the 100th
> iteration of "Carburetor float bowls overflow because the float valves
> are stuck open," that particular sentence begins to take on a flavor
> somewhat short of intellectually stimulating for most of us.

You forgot to mention some snazzy subject title so that your message
doesn't get swept up with all the other "crap" that folks like me
don't read when they're pressed for time.


I have nothing against what rec.mc has become.  I liked it better in
the old days where there weren't 120 posts per day and I could read
everything, from cool stories to tips on shimming fork sliders.  As
the volume increased, I found that I was much more interested in
technical stuff.  I still read rec.mc when I have time (like now), but
I like the ability to keep up on the technical stuff while letting the
social stuff slide a little.  I think a rec.mc.tech group would be a
big help to me, and to others.

Mark

| Mark J. Andy			WERA NV #813		AMA #700560	|
| ma1w+@cmu.edu			KotR			DoD #813	|
| Co-founder/Rider, Team RISC and Two Geeks Racing			|
| '82 Seca 650 (street), '85 RZ350 (track), '87 KDX200 (the humbler)	|
| I want RZ350 parts like steering damper, fork brace, SS lines, etc... |
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles