HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vandelhg@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (MCG)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:19:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,alt.atheism
Organization: Vanderbilt

In article <1992Aug18.040945.13187@u.washington.edu>,
wiml@milton.u.washington.edu (William Lewis) wrote:
> 
 What's so incomprehensible about an evil, sadistic,
> jealous and all-around no fun God? Sure, some passages in the Bible
> seem to state that God doesn't have these attributes. But if you're
> not believing in God, you've already thrown out the Bible entirely,
> so where's the block? This is as much of an emotional crutch as theism
> is for some. Having an evil Deity is an unpleasant concept to believe in,
> but most of us learn around age 4 that the world isn't all fun and dance, 
> and unpleasantness does indeed exist. As perhaps might God.


		Well, if you want to get down to it, the pre-Biblical YHWH wasn't a very
fun guy as far as gods are concerned.  And of course, neither was Baal...



MCG>
who?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rauchway@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Andrew Rauchway)
Subject: Help with Project Gutenberg (was Re: The Literary Canon & Women)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:25:31 GMT



I'm sure someone has already asked this on this newsgroup, but I missed it
or it was before my time . . .

Could somebody please send me the names of the locations where I could
obtain electronic text via anonymous ftp?  Naturally I would be most 
grateful.  Actually, if it wouldn't take up too much space and time, it
would probably be a public service to post it to the group.  But if 
this is too frequently asked a FAQ, then please just mail site-names
to me.

Thank you.

Eric Rauchway                    /      My opinions are mine, and not those
rauchway@leland.stanford.edu     /      of the department or university.

Department of History                  Stanford University

*****Those who do not remember history are doomed to flunk my class.*****



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: I need a word
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:55:27 GMT

In article <14186@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>Chuck Smythe asks for a word meaning "letting the part stand for the whole." I
>think the word he wants is "synechdoche" (pronounced sin *ek* da key). While it
>may be used in the manner he mentions--attacking the weakest adherent of a
>philosophy or idea--I think its more common usage is in terms like "50 head of
>cattle," "all hands were lost at sea," and so on. (Oops--excuse my spelling
>error: it's synecdoche.)


Is is close to "straw man"? Anyone know the origin of straw man?

But I'm interested as to the whys and whens that people use VERY obscure
words to convey meaning. In which cases is it done to impress, and in
which cases is it done to convey the subtlety of meaning?
Some words sound beautiful (although I don't think I could have pronounced
synecdoche "properly" -- perhaps the wrong pronunciation would have been more
pleasing: sin-ek-dosh -- but straw man does seem a little overused, despite
its curiosity...  

Frank.
From: warkent@ltisun9.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Life's too short. Was: 1930s Science Fiction
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:39:12 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: tmaddox@netcom.com's message of 11 Aug 92 03:41:09 GMT

In article <0-3myxd.tmaddox@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) wrote:
> A Big Mac should not put one off Chez Panisse

And if Chez Panisse has a set of Golden Arches out front and
hamburgers on the menu?
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: eddie@wariat.org (Eddie Anthony)
Subject: Stephen King
Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:30:13 GMT


Would someone please e-mail me as to whether there is or is not 
a Stephen King newgroup?


                      Eddie Anthony....eddie@wariat.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw an ad in a catalog for one of those compact, personal, strap-on-the-
belt type portable CD players. It comes with a remote control.........Why? 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:00:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.093645.1663@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.133736.1851@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org () writes:
>
>
>Do you seriously believe that the rank and file of major religions are both
>truly religious and also qualified to get enough of this sort of philosophical
>argument you are carrying on that causes them to deal with modern scientific
>knowledge?  Most people don't know how to screw in a light bulb; science
>influences them nada.  Organized religion is predicated on that status quo
>to a large extent.
>
I would argue that the distribution of qualifications and true belief
is probably the same for believers and nonbelievers. The post to which
I responded suggested that belief must be blind. I pointed out that it
need not be.

I suspect that many, but far from all, believers in, say, the so-called
"Western Democracies" have not closely examined their beliefs. In the
same way, I suspect that many, but far from all, atheists in the countries
from the former so-called "Eastern Bloc" have not closely examined their
beliefs (in the nonexistence of a deity). That this is so does not mean
that the holders of either conviction *must* be blindly following along,
it simply means that they may be doing so.

******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: "KILL your TV" bumperstickers
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:45:15 GMT

Roger Squires writes:

	I once worked with April Sauer (get it?  April Shower.  Ha!)

Let us know when you take up residence at Dotheboys Hall.

							Fido

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
From: jarleb@athena.uio.no (Jarle Brinchmann)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Reply-To: jarleb@athena.uio.no (Jarle Brinchmann)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:39:29 GMT

In article <sbuckley.714253616@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen
Buckley) writes:
> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
> 
> >someone some time ago wrote:
> 
> >>>>Oh really?  So creating something automatically gives one the
right to
> >>>>do anything at all with the created!  Really, if we managed to
generate
> >>>>life in the lab, would you then conclude we could do anything we
wanrted
> >>>>with it?  Or would you say that we should treat it like any other
living
> >>>>thing?
> >>>
> >If one goes by the definition that "creation" means making something
out
> >of nothing, it becomes very hard to visualize man ever creating
anything,
> >no matter how advanced she becomes.
> 
>   neat way of putting it.  i agree.  it makes me think that anything
> bound by the first and second laws of thermodynamics can't create
anything
> out of nothing.


Nice, that gives us the first axiom...

1. God (or Allah or ...... or ...) is/are not bound by the 1. and 2. law
of 
   thermodynamics. 


The problem with this is of course that the theory (according to popular
religion)
not will be falsifiable, but then again, this is not a matter of humor,
it's
more a matter of religion. Continue the discussion in alt.cascades.


						Jarle.

BTW what is the term when one is not interested in religion. I'm not an
atheist
nor an agnostics nor an believer I'm merely uninterested, what's that
called ?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Dangerous What?
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:58:29 GMT

                         Wednesday, the 19th of August, 1992

Janice Miller wonders about listing Choderlos de Laclos'
book as _Dangerous Acquaintances_. 

That's the way Rexroth lists it, though if I look in the
body of his article, he always calls it _Les Liaisons Dangereuses_,
and, unlike in many of his appreciations, he does not discuss
available editions or translations at all.

It's funny that we would seem to know of this book only, or mainly,
by its title in French. Like no one ever translates _Les Miserables_.
And _I promessi sposi_ seems more familiar than _The Betrothed_.

          Mike Morris
      (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: views on reviews
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:49:33

A title like "Challenging the Prevailing Orthodoxy" usually conceals a
desire for an orthodoxy.  Whether it is to be the old one in slight
disguise or a new one cannot be fathomed from a title designed to conceal
rather than to reveal.

Which is it in this case?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:14594 talk.politics.misc:39558
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Dismiss the Liberal! (was re: The nature of enlightenment)
Keywords: shame
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:50:04 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Aug12.192312.14674@husc3.harvard.edu>, zeleny@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
> In article <11689@optilink.UUCP> 
> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >In article <9208082247.AA29883@cfdev1.shearson.com>, 
> >mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
# ## The following opinions are typical of those that Clayton Cramer has
# ## espoused here on r.a.b. 
# 
# MT:
# ##         That anyone who disagrees with him should be labelled a
# ##         liberal, and dismissed.
# ## 
# ## Mark
# 
# CC:
# #No, anyone who reflexively looks for a solution to a problem
# #by bringing in more government control over people's lives,
# #is a liberal, and should be dismissed.
# 
# Elsewhere (on rec.guns), in article <11701@optilink.UUCP# 
# cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# 
# CC:
# #[...] the government should fix the fundamental problem of savages
# #on the loose, rather than forcing decent people to engage in the
# #risky business of gunfighting [...]
# 
# To apply his own criteria, in his own words, Mr Cramer "reflexively looks
# for a solution to" "the fundamental problem of savages on the loose" "by
# bringing in more government control over people's lives"; therefore by his
# own lights Mr Cramer "is a liberal, and should be dismissed".

Notice that word: "reflexively."  Go look in a dictionary, if you are
unsure what it means.

Further, the government is already exercising tremendous control 
over the lives of violent criminals -- they just don't bother to 
lock them up after convicting them, or at least not for long.
Doing it right requires no more control than they now exert --
and focusing on violent criminals, instead of drug offenders,
would reduce the number of people actually under the government's
control.

# #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
# mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
When the government wins the War on Drugs, they are welcome to try their
gun control snake oil.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: speterse%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:45:13 MDT
Organization: The Erland Cult

Fritz Leiber wrote a novel called *Conjure Wife*, in which the basic
premise is that (1) magic exists, (2) all women know how to practice 
it, and (3) this is kept secret from men.  It was originally published
in UNKNOWN, a fantasy magazine edited by John W. Campbell, better known
as the editor of the science fiction magazine ASTOUNDING.

Quoted on the front page of my edition:

	...Easily the most frightening (and necessarily) the
	most thoroughly convincing of all modern horror stories.
	It's premise is that witchcraft still flourishes, an
	open secret among women, a closed book to men...
					--Damon Knight, Author and Critic


*Conjure Wife* is not considered part of the Western Literary Canon,
but I thought I'd mention it as a perfect example of the kind of 
assumptions that are made about the audience, both in 1943, when 
it was written, and in 1981, when Ace books saw fit to reprint it
with the Damon Knight blurb.

Women may very well read the book with enjoyment (I should mention
that I found it witty, entertaining, and reasonably internally 
consistent--in short, I recommend it as a good light read), but I
doubt that very many would find it either "frightening" or "thoroughly
convincing".

To tie it in with another subthread.  There are two published lists of
the 100 best fantasy novels in book form that I know of.  *Conjure Wife* 
appears on both.

--
    "Tell  me, who *hasn't* felt close to the edge and down by the river" 
soren f petersen           :        i AM NOT          :    --Andy Whitman
speterse@peruvian.utah.edu :  THE university OF utah  :
"How could I dance with another/When I saw him standing there"  --Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:30:39 GMT

In article <5522@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>I've read a number of authors on my own--Dostoyevsky and Faulkner
>both come to mind--that I really wish I'd read as part of a college
>course just so I could talk to another group of people about the
>great book(s) I'd just read.

But haven't we got a newsgroup for that?


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |  "No object is mysterious. The mystery is your eye."
mnemonic@eff.org | 
(617) 864-0665   |                --Elizabeth Bowen
EFF, Cambridge   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: trey@leland.Stanford.EDU (Clarence Gordon)
Subject: Harlan Ellison
Summary: Harlan Ellison books
Keywords: Harlan Ellison
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:55:49 GMT

does anyon know who to get Harlan Ellison books.  none of the book
stores around here (Palo Alto, CA) carry his books. i find this strange
since he is such an acclaimed writer. please help and let me know either
by posting or by e-mail. thanks. trey@leland.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld)
Subject: Cultural Literacy & Bette Bao Lord
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:53:48 GMT

I did pretty well on the _Cultural Literacy_ test: 98%.

(My wife did better, 100%, but then she has the better mind, and was
born and raised in the States; and just you try a Canadian cult lit
equivalency test and see how you like it!  But I digress.)

Bette Bao Lord introduces a much harder test of
cultural adequacy, one she says the State Department obliged her to
pass before they'd let her fiance, their employee, marry her.

What follow are questions appearing on pp. 11-12 of her book _Legacies_.
How well can you cope?  (Both my wife and I bomb out):

	Who is Vardis Fisher?
	What ingredients go into a Death in the Afternoon cocktail?
	State the difference between a mazurka and a pavane.
	Name 	the starting lineup of the Green Bay Packer, 
		the capitals of all the West African countries, 
		the order in which the thirteen original colonies were settled.

(How well would Mr. Hirsch do, do you suppose?)
-- 
Michael Feld                         | E-mail:  <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Dept. of Philosophy                  | FAX:     (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba               | Voice:   (204) 474-9136
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada
From: rgasch@nl.oracle.com (Robert Gasch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great Endings.
Keywords: n
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:45:32 GMT
Reply-To: rgasch@oracle.nl (Robert Gasch)
Organization: Oracle Europe


Interesting topic. My favorite ending probably is the ending in
Umberto Eco's "Focoult's (sp?) Pendelum". At first I was disappointed
by it, but the more I thought about it the more I liked it. It
preserves the suspense and momentum that the author has built
up during the course of the book and even though the hero has
to admit defeat (to a certain degree by his own creation), it is
a peaceful and calm exit which contrasts wonderfully with the
development of the plot but does not destroy the tension. Given
the nature of the book, it is probably also the ending which 
leaves the plot as realistic as possible.
Highly recommended.

--> Rob
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (QUOTE OF THE YEAR)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Summary: 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:43:23 GMT

Why is this in rec.humor? Or am I missing the punchline?

In article <AXC.92Aug6184435@alfa.fct.unl.pt>, axc@fct.unl.pt (Acacio Cruz [pm] writes...
> 
>   In article <1992Jul24.073550.9101@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>   >In article <CB.92Jul23171934@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>   >>This is confused.  You're muddling the difference between "I don't believe
>   >>in God" and "I believe there is no God".  One position states the question
>   >>is indeterminate, the other states a position on one side.  Remember,
>   >>"don't believe" doesn't mean "disbelieve".
>   >
>   ....
> 
>"I believe there is no God" is self-explanatory.
> 
>"I don't believe in God" means you believe there's one but he's 
>a fucking liar!
> 
>Acacio Cruz (aka A Morte errante e eterna vagueia suavemente pela rede!)
>--
>Acacio Justino Calcada da Cruz| BITNET/Internet: axc@fct.unl.pt
>Universidade Nova de Lisboa   |            UUCP: axc@unl.uucp
>FCT - Dpto. de Informatica    | Fax:   (+351) (1) 295-5641
>2825 Monte Caparica, PORTUGAL | Phone: (+351) (1) 295-4464
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>"MOM!"
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Keywords: Canon
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:00:22 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <11696@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug9.163818.29926@athena.cs.uga.edu>, heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>> In article <rauser.713313201@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
># #    No, but turn it around. Perhaps the reason she's ignored is because
># #her work is mediocre. I hate to say it Teresa, but just because a writer
># #is a woman doesn't mean her work deserves to be studied. Of course, critical
># #study is a wide open field and if you want to study this writer, feel free.
># 
># 	I think it may be another 100 years before the "Great Books"
># canon is open to female writers as well as ethnic minorities. Those
>
>Hmmm.  I notice the "Great Books" series already includes several
>female writers.  It also includes a work by Augustine, who I have
>read was a mulatto.
>

I seem to recall that the a recently published collection of "Great
Books" included no black authors whatsoever.  I will find this
information and post it later on.




-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bhanafee@deimos.ads.com (Brian Hanafee)
Subject: Re: Taranto-Zeleny on Clayton Cramer
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:02:23 GMT


In article <JMC.92Aug11233758@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>For the reader who has got this far without falling asleep, I offer a
>small puzzle.  A sports columnist in the SF Chronicle referred to the
>Valley girl mannerisms of one of our Olympic gold medal winners.  The
>term "Valley girl", referring to what some kinds of verbal behavior
>alleged to have been observed among pre-women and young women in San
>Fernando Valley is only a few years old.  Therefore, it isn't part of
>the age-old oppression.  Can it be legitimate to use the expression,
>depending on the actual facts or is it necessarily improper?  Let it
>be stipulated that there is at least one young lady in the San
>Fernando Valley of a degree of sophistication that would make her
>fully qualified to participate in r.a.b.
>

I have not seen the article in the SF Chronicle, nor do I know who the
athlete in question is, but I do have a suspicion.  In the interest of
fairness, please answer the following questions:

Is the Olympic gold medal winner in question a current or recent
student at the academic institution (Stanford) where you teach?
Have you ever met or taught the Olympic gold medal winner?

>My theory of Valley girls is that the vagueness and ignorance in
>their conversation is a protective reaction against over-earnest
>teachers, e.g. teachers of formidable political correctness.  I
>cheerfully admit that this theory is based on no observations
>whatsoever; I have never met a Valley girl, and I don't listen
>to talk shows.

I take issue with your clustering "over-earnest teachers" with
"formidable political correctness".  I assert that over-earnest
teachers exist who are decidedly non-PC.  It's not even out of the
question that I will introduce your esteemed self as a
counter-example.  (Do you claim that you are an outlier in the
distribution?  How many conservative Republican anti-PC teachers from
the San Fernando Valley do I have to produce to convince you?)  I
don't necessarily disagree that over-earnest teachers may be
correlated with Valley girl mannerisms, but I would be quite
disappointed in your logic if you began to argue that PC is a cause
for the Valley girl behavior.

--
Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books