HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:13:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Abortion terminology

<Another alternative is to label each side by the label they wish to
<be called.  This would involve using the terms pro-life and pro-choice.
<I have a real problem with this choice, for it implies that each side
<is of equal value, and it is only a difference of personal opinion. I
<do not believe these two sides are of equal value.  As a result, I will
<not use the term pro-choice, but will instead use the term pro-abortion
<to describe that perspective.
<
<I wish to give the following disclaimer.  I am not trying to offend
<those members of CHRISITA who have a different perspective on this
<issue.  I am under no illusion I can convert them to my side or they
<will convert me to their side.  My choice of terms is aimed at
<the large number of people in the middle, who do not have firm
<convictions on this issue.  They are the ones whom I am trying to
<convince, and I will use the terminology that I feel best makes
<my perspective look reasonable.

Then you will not complain if we pro-choicers use the same reasoning to explain
why we refer to your position as "anti-choice", or anti-choice organizations
and members as parts of the "Compulsorary Pregnancy" movement.  I will let you
set the terms on which we interact, but I will then follow the same rules.

Dan
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: Steve Creps <creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Contraception == abortion? (was Re: re:pro-choice)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:39:04 -0500

Ian,

   I never said that sex was ONLY for procreation, nor did I mean to imply
it.  What I did say was that the procreative aspect of marriage should not
be artificially separated from the unitive aspect of it.

   Sexual pleasure in a marriage is part of its unitive aspect, and is
certainly recognized as a good thing within this context.

>I believe there is enough evidence in the bible to draw the conclusion that
>God wishes us to have a happy, fulfulling and rewarding sexual lifestyle,
>as long as it is confined to the marriage bed..

   I couldn't agree more.  I would add that, when we accept this blessing,
we must also accept the blessing of children if it is God's will.

   And back to the original subject: I had mentioned with some uncertainty
that some forms of birth control could be considered abortion.  My Catholic
encyclopedia says this:

	"It should also be a matter of serious concern that many
	contraceptives are inefficient, causes of critical health
	hazards for the mother and also abortifacient; that is, they
	cause the already joined sperm and egg to be flushed out of
	the womans' body, thereby constituting an early abortion,
	always a sin of utmost gravity." (_Our Sunday Visitor's
	Catholic Encyclopedia_, Reverend Peter M. J. Stravinskas,
	Ph.D., S.T.L., Editor)

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
creps@iubacs
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X-Original-To:  christia@asuacad.bitnet, MB09
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:52:00 CDT
From:         MB09@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Updates (Was:Re: Congratulations!!)

Nicole,

We have a video at the Women's Pregnancy Center which shows a sonogram
technician showing sonograms to high school kids.  I think that this is
the same lady as the article you are talking about.  I can't remember her
name.  She also has a pro-life advertisement out that shows the sonogram
with the baby visibly moving around.  Could you please get me the information
on the article?  Also the address to Christian Herald because I don't think
I have access to it, and may have to send for the issue.

Thanks,

Michelle
From: spk@aber.ac.uk (Stephen Kingston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: JW's Translation
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:40:56 GMT
Reply-To: spk@aber.ac.uk (Stephen Kingston)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University College of Wales, Aberystwyth.

Occasionally, it seems, the auto reply to my messages used by various 
people will send a reply direct to me and not to the list. I suspect 
this is due to my net-news reply-to field. Below is one such posting 
which is obviously meant for the list.

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 92 11:13:38 EST
From: "Joseph P. Riolo" <riolo@mil.army.pica.cor4>
To: Stephen Kingston <spk%uk.ac.aberystwyth@edu.asu.inre.asuvm>
Cc: riolo@mil.ARMY.PICA
Message-Id: <9204031113.aa07885@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>


Stephen Kingston writes:
>riolo@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL (Joseph P. Riolo) writes:
>> MAKS:
>> >                                                                     They
>> >conveniently have John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was
>> >with God and the Word was *A* god."
>>
>>      Have you checked the Greek text for this verse?  Linguistically, it
>> is valid.  Theologically, it is or is not valid depending on one's belief.
>
>Linguistically, this translation is *not* valid. The greek text has:
>
>theos en logos (I transliterate)
>
>theos = God, logos = Word. En is the verb "to be" (was).
>
>This sentance construction is known as a predicate nominative, and in
>Greek it can have only one meaning, which is:
>
>"the Word was God", or more literally "The Word was equivalent to and
>fully God". The construction is a deliberate one which stresses the
>essential "Godness" of the Word.

      In early Greek manuscripts, all letters are capitals.  THEOS can
mean "God", "god", or "divine".

>Funnily enough, the NWT is inconsistent in its translation of the
>predicate nominitive, as it correctly translates this construction
>elsewhere in the book of John (I don't have a reference handy I'm
>afraid).

      I will be interested to know this.

>Interesting, though, that only one of the committe members knew *any*
>Greek (according to a trial in Scotland, and here I shall be very remiss
>and admit that I do not have a reference handy for this either. Can
>anyone help me out with this?). I also seem to remember that during the
>trial this man was unable to recognize a portion of the Greek text of
>the gospel of John.

       Interesting but you have to provide more information for me to
make a correct judgment.

                                        Joseph P. Riolo
                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>

-- 
Gweleis i rac neb nym gweles pop annwyl. ef diwyl yneges. Gweleis i pasc.
(I saw the one above all men,  he saw me;  he, the beloved of his people,
who fulfills his mission. I saw Easter.) "Yspeil Taliesin" ---Taliesin---
spk@uk.ac.aber --- spk%uk.ac.aber@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk --- Stephen Kingston
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:35:35 -0500
From:         F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU
Subject:      RE: abortion
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

RU486 is not a contraceptive.  It is an abortificant [sp?].
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Question Re:abortion
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 04:56:40 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET> writes:

>I would like to hear from the women on the list who have born children.
>Did the baby ever restrict your freedom?  Did pregrenancy every interfere
>with any of your rights?

Though I haven't asked my wife, I THINK she would respond with disbelief at
so absurd a question, but not because the answers would be 'no.'  Rather, I
think she would say 'Yes, of course' to the first, and 'What rights?' to the
second.  God gives us gifts, duties, callings --- I don't know that He
gives us rights.  Naturally vis-a-vis other men we have rights.  My wife was
unspeakably sick with each of our four (and a fifth that miscarried), and
has suffered pretty significant physical messups (also of an unspeakable
nature!) as a result.  But, then, I don't know that that's unusual.  Every
woman who bears children walks through the valley of the shadow of death in
so doing.

I wonder if mothers in the net think I'm talking rubbish?

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Changing A Church
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:44:19 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:


>   Anyway, what this all means is that when a woman who was an Anglican
>priest comes into communion with the Catholic Church, she is considered
>not to have had valid orders in the first place.  This in no way is meant
>to imply an inferiority of women; it's just that there are different roles,
>as is stated in the Bible.

>-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
>Steve Creps, Indiana University

I can't imagine an Anglican woman with a brain left wanting to get near the
very kind of oppression that existed also in our Episcopal church until the 
Philadelphia Eleven of 1974 were regularized in 1976.

Dr. King used to say, There comes a time when those who go to the back of
the bus deserve the back of the bus.  Surely we have reached that time
when God's love for the WHOLE WORLD is thwarted by testosterone
poison of requiring only a penis to dangle under those holy skirts!

Out with the genital exchequers in the temple!  All of them!
The Queendom of Heaven is at hand.

H.R.H.Q. Lutibelle



-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:59:02 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request-Holy Week

Children of the Living God:

My dear friend Mark is leaving this morning to go to Leavenworth Federal
Penitentiary to conduct Easter Week services there with an evangelist
friend of his.  Please pray that his efforts in that forlorn place will
bear fruit, that he will grow spiritually through this experience, that
the Lord will enable him to speak what must be spoken, that he will have
a safe journey, that God will prepare the hearts of the prisoners to
recieve the message of salvation, and that I will not miss Mark as much as
I know I'm going to.  (And maybe that he'll miss me half as much as that?)

Also please pray for a woman in our fellowship who is having severe
psychological and spiritual problems and is talking about going off her
medication without telling her physician or her psychiatrist.  We are
all very worried about her, but are unsure what can be done on a practical
level without increasing her paranoia.  If anyone has personal experience of
either Christian counseling intervention or successful spiritual warfare,
please mail me personally.  She has a husband, a small child, and a mother-
in-law who are scared to death of what is going on.

Finally, for some reason, the Lord has been burdening my heart especially
today for my mother, who is unsaved.  Please, just pray for her soon
salvation.  (I really don't know why this is such a powerful issue right
now, since there has been no recent change.  I just feel a strong leading
to ask for this at this particular time.)
                                          Love INC,
                                                   ---Kerry
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:21:23 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Happy Birthday, Jesus!

Thank you, Doug.  I was unaware of the significance of April 6.  I'm not
sure I'm sure of it now, but I guess it can also serve as a reminder that
for Christians, His mercies are new every morning and therefore, every
day should be treated as both Christmas and Easter.  Praise the Lord!
                                              Love INC,
                                                       ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:30:00 EDT
From:         The List Minor <VCHAI@SMITH.BITNET>
Subject:      Dayspring: update

   The performance went well last night.  We sang the first song
   much too fast and our timing was a bit off with the soloist, but
   hey, no one in the audience knew how the song _really_ sounded
   anyways, and so they thought we sang well!  What can I say but
   thank God!  :-)


   Vicky
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:33:39 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.BITNET>
Subject:      Creeds as Common Ground

Once again I would like to thank Steve, who, in consideration of my NOMAIL
status, has compiled sent me the exchanges on the creeds.

I agree that the Nicene creed is a much more comprehensive statement of
trinitarian doctrine than the Apostle's creed.  Remember that James
Kiefer pointed this out fairly early in the discussion, that the creeds
were written to clarify specific points of doctrine which were under
attack at the time.  Because of this, specific creeds will seem to almost
overemphasize some points while ignoring others.  Possibly this is the
reason why the Anglican church (as Lora Harris posted) recites all
three of the major creeds at different times.

Regarding the "filioque" clause in the Nicene creed, I have to agree with
the Orthodox brother who stated that there is no scripture directly
supporting the idea that the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the
Son.  The only scripture that I can find that discusses the Spirit
proceeding is John 15:26, which speaks of the Spirit proceeding from the
Father, even though He (the Spirit) is sent by the Son.  For this reason,
I would be perfectly willing to accept the Eastern form of the Nicene
creed.  It is stated in one of the postings that the Byzantine rite
Catholics are permitted to choose which form of the Nicene creed they
will recite.  Surely we can show each other the same degree of tolerance.

In view of the differing emphases of each of the creeds, perhaps it would
be best to consider using two or three of them to define our common
ground.  That way, the varying emphases would balance each other out.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
LMENDELS@WAYNEST1 (Bitnet)
LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Internet)
From: pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Safe Sex #2
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:21:16 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in the Twentieth Century

danny@utkux1.utk.edu (Danny McCampbell) writes:

>I always pray
>before I go anywhere that God will place His warring angels around me and
>I plead the blood of Jesus over my life.  Then I have the protection I need
>to safely drive to where I need to go.  Just a thought.

Oh, so obviously the only people who get killed in car crashes are atheists.

P.
-- 
moorcockheathersiainbankshamandcornpizzapjorourkebluesbrothersspikeleepratchett
clive P a u l  M o l o n e y "Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the  rem
james Trinity College,Dublin PMOLONEY%MATHS.TCD.IE@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU mind." vr
brownbladerunnerorsonscottcardprincewatchmenkatebushbatmanthekillingjoketolkien
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:42:26 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christ-like Service

Doug:
About the cat:  another beautiful story of unthinking Christian love.
IMHO, Christian service is not a burden, it is an automatic and joyful
response to the wonderful gift of life God has given us right now.

Again, thank you.  Keep posting such things.  I'm afraid mine tend to
run to the argumentative, and it's wonderful to have the balance.

                                         Love INC,
                                                  ---Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 10:02:58 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jesus
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              "HANNANT%JII.AFRC.AC.UK@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU" at Apr 16,
              92 12:37 pm

>
>All,
>    I watched Franco Zefferellis Jesus of Nazereth last night, the last
>part.  I have never seen it before.  After it had finished I just left
>the group and cried.  Jesus suffered all that so I might live.  I don't
>know wether they were tears of sorrow or happiness.
>    Well my Christian Easter is upon me and I am quite excited. At last I
>can really celebrate Easter for the right reason.
>    God bless you all, Nigel.
>

Hi Nigel,

Is That the movie or the series?? I saw a program called Jesus of Nazareth
that was about a 6 hour epic on the life of Christ..
The ressurection scenes were done beautifuly. The movie ended with the closing
remarks from Mathews Gospel "and I will be with you always to the end of the
age"...
The actor who played Christ had such an annointing on him. He looked
straight into the camera when he said those words and he looked straight
into the depths of my Spirit... I broke down and wept for about half an hour
out of pure love for what Jesus did for me..
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 11:22:43 CDT
From:         Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: New Age/Christian Survey -Help!
              4 Apr 1992 03:54:21 GMT from <jmb5b@NEWTON.ACC.VIRGINIA.EDU>

John,
Them is some awfully broad questions.
On #2, New age is a VERY broad reaching cover term, perhaps Kerry S. can
define some aspects that could help you ask a few more specific questions
that would better answer what your looking for.

On #3, are you asking for opinions of four catgories, or just one?
Also, I can define myself in each of the four catagories (and sometimes
do to those who ask) in #3 and also in the catagory in #4.
I think some Catholics (#5) would also consider themselves as part of one
or more of the catagories in #3 as well.
   Just some thoughts, I'll try to respond to the questions, but I wont
have time for a few days.
    Lonnie Schubert
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 05:00:52 -0500
From:         F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU
Subject:      capitalism
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu

  Even though I'm leaving the list, I would like to finish out our
discussion of capitalism.  If anyone posts anything on it, would you
please send a copy to me at: F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU

                 Thanks
                         Reynolds
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 20:41:00 EDT
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From:         LIZ MOREAU <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Feminist theology/little god movement

>In exploring the literature of feminist theology, I have come across the
>following.  I would appreciate any comments you would have to make on
>its appropriateness to Christianity, its functionality in the church,
>and/ or the spiritual condition you infer from the source:

Okay, I'll use that word again.  Its sounds New Age to me and I would
stand against it if it was introduced into my church.

It sounds like they are worshiping mother earth in this prayer.

>WHAT is going on in the church, people?

Doesn't look good, does it!  I've noticed little things at my church
such as changing words -- 'all men' to 'all human beings' and changed
'He' (meaning Jesus) to 'she' in songs.   Also, they've introduced
guided imagery, centering and visualization and praying in the yoga
position.  Sooooo if they came up with this prayer, I wouldn't be too
surprised.

                                        Liz
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:34:00 EDT
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From:         JHART@UMASSD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: "Safe Sex"

>I attended a seminar on the "Myths of Safe Sex" put on by an Austin doctor,
>Dr. McIllhaney (sp?), a couple weeks ago.  He has a couple books out on this
>topic.  He cited a study that was done with married couples.  One of whom
>was infected with the HIV virus while the other partner wasn't.  The couples,
>knowing the "danger of unprotected sex" used condoms.  They used them
>correctly, 100% of the time, which is usually not the case out in the real
>world.  After only 12 months, 18% of the partners who weren't infected became
>infected.  I can get the refrerences to this study, but it is going to take
>me a while!

Just a comment:  In 1986 a similar study was done in Florida on
20 couples.  These couples were chosen because one partner of each
couple was HIV positive, while the other was negitive.  These
couples continued practicing 'safe sex'.  Within one year, both
partners of ALL 20 couples tested positive.

>Just a fact for interest sake:  The University of Texas Health Center
>(Infirmary) unrandomly did HIV testing.  It was found that 1 in 100 UT
>students were HIV infected!

>Have a happy Easter,

>Michelle R. Bruce
>(I noticed we have another Michelle now!--welcome!)

John Hart
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 12:55:16 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Two different questions
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              at Apr 7, 92 11:08 pm

Jeff.

Thanks for that posting on contraception.. I admit now that the issue
escaped me..

My wife recently found out that the contraceptive pill she was using was
one that actually stopped a fertilised egg from _embedding_ on the wall.
I too, consider this abortion, and as soon as we found that out, we vowed
never to use that pill again, as well as seek forgivness for our actions...
Luckily we are trying for children, so contraception is not an issue, but
if it ever came up again, we would only consider such methods that actually
stopped the fertilisation of the egg and the sperm. Fertilisation is what I
consider to be the start of human life...


(forgive me Jeff, I never did ANY biology at school).

Thanks for adding that anyway Jeff

*****************************************************************************
Ian Williams          			Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems         			Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia
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