From: samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias)
Subject: Re: Rage (Re: Khomainy, etc.)
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:16:42 GMT

In article <Jan22.172038.10371@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> bh437292@lance.colostate.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.213847.4700@tfs.com>, samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias) writes:
>
>|> Some relevant meanings for the word "culture",taken directly
>|> From the American,(from all other sources),heritage dictionary,1983:
>|> 
>|> 1 - Intellectual and artistic taste and refinements.
>|> 
>|> 2 - Development of the intellect through education and training.
>|> 
>|> 3 - The arts, BELIEFS, customs,institutions and ALL OTHER products
>|> 	of  human work and THOUGHT  created by a people or a group at
>|> 	a PARTICULAR TIME.
>|> 
>|> So i understand BELIEFS to include RELIGION and also POLITICAL ideas,
>|> i also understand THOUGHT to all possible facets of human ideas, 
>|> just as i understand PARTICULAR TIME to mean "current and past history",
>|> and in the same sense "a people or a group" to include both arabs AND
>|> muslims.
>|> 
>|> I should also say that the first and second meanings include:
>|> Science,litreture ,education, art (in all its forms i may say
>|> including,"Al-Ra'ass Al-Shari'i",which i hope no one will discuss
>|> seriosly,but they can and may be will).
>|> 
>|> So for anyone to say that we should or should not discuss this or
>|> that on this group is merely trying to assume the role of a judge 
>|> or a moderator which this group does not have.
>
>
>Mr, Elias,
>
>I see nothing wrong with your definition, my problem is that
>the post was not even intended to start a discussion on
>Islamic beliefs, it was simply a slur directed toward
>some of us Arabs on s.c.a. Mr.  Abu-Khater in his subsequent 
>answer never discussed the contents of the Fatwa, he
>said that if we disagree with it we should just go
>and talk to Sheikh Albany.  Even though I may not be
>a judge, I simply stated that Mr. Abu Khater's intentions
>in posting this Fatwa to s.c.a. were not to discuss the
>religious issues involved or the beliefs, but rather
>to  try and spread divisiveness.  Then I stated,
>that if his intention was a simple discussion of
>the differences in beliefs between Shias and Sunnis,
>then soc.culture.islam would be better suited for this
>kind of discussion.  This context should be taken into account,
>when considering why I asked Mr. Abu Khater to move
>the discussion off s.c.a, I believe it is a rhetorical 
>demand which should be  balanced and  compared to the insults 
>he posted in the first place. 
>
>
>|> I assume that everyone regards s.r.i to be purely islamic,where all
>|> possible aspects of this great religion should be discussed and
>|> learned,and that s.p.m to be a wide mixture of both s.r.i and s.c.a
>|> that includes also other than arabs and muslims.
>|> 
>|> We all should not be scared of THOUGHTS and IDEAS if we ever want
>|> to be counted and ever to have a place in human development.
>
>
>Actually I welcome them and long for them on sca.  What I
>complained about was the lack of them, and the insistence
>of some of finding ways to concentrate on tangential issues.
>
> 
>|> We should try to restrict ourself from PERSONAL ATTACK and limit
>|> ourselfs to ISSUES, remember ex-president BUSH,(by the way i made
>|> a horrible mistake in 1988 and voted for the guy), he stopped talking
>|> about ISSUES when he found out that he is weak on them,what he did
>|> then is to resort to personal attacks which did nothing to help him,
>|> so for those of us who take the lead from the "strong" i hope you
>|> see what happened for bush, and for those of us who take the lead
>|> from their heritage and history i think we already,(most of us),
>|> are approaching discussions in a better manner.
>|> 
>
>I agree.

This the most important thing is that we agree that discussions
should focus on issues,and that if any one diverts from issues we
should all either divert him/her back or,at least try not to allow
their diversion to affect our line(s) of discussion,they eventually
will have to come back to the issues otherwise all their points will
be lost.

I think the issue of the fatwa should be addressed and not ignored,
the motives behind it also should be addressed,and for the person
,who posted the fatwa to say that, "if we have any problem
with the fatwa that we should go and ask the person who issued it",
we simply can reply "if you can not defend an idea you should have
the decency not to present it in the first place".

We all should be able to point out clearly the seeds of division
that some people are trying to seed,and when this is done it will
become very hard for any one to try to divide us.


>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> 
>|> P.S.:
>|> ____
>|> The above reflects my opinions only,they by no means reflect those of
>|> my employer.
>|> 
>Basil






P.S.:
____
The above reflects my opinions only,they by no means reflect those of
my employer.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic