From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: er,excuse me
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:55:36 GMT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

Hillel Markowitz katav:

HS>You are right Dan Juster's father is Jewish, and according to Torah, the
HS>seed of promise is passed via  Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to their male seed 
HS>forever, and the rite called Bris, or circumcision is the seal of the 
HS>everlasting covenant between G-d and Israel.
HS>
HS>Since Dan is not a part of Rabbinic Judaism, and since Rabbinic Judaism is 

> That is right, he is not Jewish.

Harvey didn't say Dan isn't Jewish.  He said he isn't part of Rabbinic Judaism.
That is entirely different.

HS>false in its teaching that the covenant proceeds via a Jewish mother thereby 
HS>violating the covenant of Moses, and Abraham...
> 
> Baloney slipped in.

It's easy to say "baloney", Hillel.  You haven't shown where this teaching of
the rabbis actually exists in Torah or anywhere in the Tanakh.  That's because
it simply isn't there.

HS> RA=>unless he converted to Judaism, he's still a gentile.]  Other
HS> RA=>movement leaders have ties to the Assemblies of God church,
HS> RA=>and even the Jews for Jesus movement.
HS>
HS>NOPE wrong again Robert.   According to Torah, Dan is very much Jewish and a 
> 
> Once the Torah was given at Sinai, the definition was from the
> mother.  According to the Torah, he is not now and never was
> Jewish.

Please quote the Torah reference.  I cannot find it in the Torah.

HS>direct descendant of Abraham... No need to convert to Rabbinic Judaism which 
HS>is incorrect in its lineage....

You're right, Harvey.

HS>evangelism...  NO secret there either Robert.... However, the majority of MJ 
HS>congregations are non affiliated with anyone but the UMJC which itself is an 
HS>independent umbrella organization, with its members still maintaining their 
HS>independence and sovereignty...
> 
> but they are all xians holding to the tenets of the church and
> following the common beliefs of the umbrella organization.  For
> example would you find a Roman Catholic or Unitarian church joining.

I don't understand the point here, if there is one.  You appear to be asking
a question, but there is no question mark at the end, so maybe you are making
a statement.  Are you saying that Roman Catholic congregations have joined the
UMJC?  And what have Unitarians got to do with anything?  They aren't
Christian *or* Jewish.  They don't believe in anything at all, much less God.
What has all this got to do with the UMJC?  And what are the "tenets of the
church"?  Don't forget that that part of the church which is genuinely of
God (and that includes people across the spectrum of denominations) sprang
from the Jewish believers.  The truth that they proclaim is Jewish.  If a
Gentile student agrees with his Jewish teacher, I guess you think this makes
the Jewish teacher a Gentile.  You Rabbinic types sure employ some strange
"logic" ...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

     /\			And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal
____/__\____		life, and this life is in His Son.  He who has the Son
\  / || \  /		has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does
 \/--++--\/		not have the life.
 /\  ||  /\						-- 1 John 5:11-12
/  \ || /  \
----\--/----		-- Bruce Tiffany
     \/  
Newsgroups: alt.messianic