From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Macedonian recognition (was Re: The Aboriginal Government ...)
Date: 24 Aug 92 18:46:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


LB>You may have a very clear view of the actions of the Bulgarian government
LB>but a lot of people don't. Could you share with everybody what is so clear
LB>(and why). I don't know exactly what you have in mind and would be

  The Bulgarian gov. is trying to get to the 'good side' of the Vardar
  people. Combined with the Bulgarian position that the Macedonian nation
  does not exist, this lays the basis for an adoption/annexation of
  Vardar by Bulgaria. Which is OK with me, by the way. Greece's northern
  neighbors can join and divide themselves all they want, provided they leave
  Greece alone. My point was that the Bulgarian recognition was no proof of
  the validity of the Skopjian arguements.

LB>Correct and timely decision -      32.0%        33.8%

  Interesting. So the Bulgarian gvmnt went ahead with the concurrence of
  only 2-fifths or so of the opinionated Bulgarian people. More power to my
  point that they didn't recognise Skopjie because they felt morally
  compelled  to do so.

LB>true. Unfortunately I can't find references at present, but the numbers I
LB>remember were in the range of 60 - 80 000 Macedonian Bulgarians who
LB>remained in Greece after WWI.

  95% of those were in Thrace, which was Bulgarian from 1913-1917, and was
  therefore not included in the population exchanges. This does not
  invalidate the fact that the population exchange took place.
  Even 80,000 Bulgarians would be less than 5% of the Greek Thrako-Macedonian
  population. Was it for this 5% that Bulgaria joined the Axis, and
  participated in the deaths of 400,000 Greeks from 1941-1945?

LB>And you seem to be unaware that in Vardar Macedonia the vast majority of
LB>the people considered themselves Bulgarians and fought on the side of the
LB>Bulgarian army. Some were for a union with Bulgaria and some were for

   I am very much aware that the Vardar people concidered themselves
   Bulgarian until the Belgrade propaganda forced them not to. That is the
   very core of the Greek arguement on the issue.

LB>and railways in Vardar Macedonia). So - Bulgaria (de facto leaded by King
LB>Boris III) had 2 choices - to accept an "offer" by Hitler - (Macedonia +
LB>Thrace) in return for signing a pact with the Axis Powers or to refuse the

    In 1940, Greece had 2 choices. To join the Axis, or to be invaded. When
    asked to allow passage of Axis troops though Greece, the Greeks simply
    said "OHI" (NO!). Is there a word for "NO" in Bulgarian?
    If the Bulgarians had simply allowed the passage of German troops, this
    would be a different matter, but Bulgaria annexed (Greek)Macedonia from
    1941-1944, and actively participated in the extermination of Greeks
    and Jews in the area.

LB>"offer" and sthe and against the German army. Nobody (amongst the rest of the
LB>Big Powers) offered some protection or alternative to Bulgaria and adding

    Same for Greece; read above.

LB>convinced (as he has said it once early during WWII) to be lost.  Despite
LB>having formally it's own territories (won from the Ottomans during the
LB>first Balkan war) back, it was the Germans and not the Bulgarians who ruled
LB>conducted Vardar and Aegean Macedonia.

   Bulgarian controlled areas durig WWII went far beyond the extend of
   Bulgarian gains in the first Balkan War. Salonica was never under Bulgarian
   control until Hitler handed her over to them.

LB>immediately after WWI (after the population exchanges !!!), compared with
LB>numbers for the same population 20 and 40 years later. And you can

   That I have explained in responce to another posting. Slav populations
   in the only place where they remained after WWI (Thrace) were withdrawn
   by orders of Sofia during the advance of the Greek republican army
   towards the end of the Greek civil war. Sofia's involvement in the Greek
   civil war was the cause. In contrast, Turkish populations in the same region
   still remain in increasing numbers today.

LB>try and explain the difference. But this is not going to bring a lot of

   See above.

LB>Don't blame the Macedonians for this. Those claims were masterminded
LB>(probably) by the ex-Belgrade governments, which wanted to have access to
LB>the Aegean Sea.

   True, also the need for the Belgrade gov to control the people of Vardar,
   and to separate them from Sofia. I have stated in the past that the
   Vardar population are the true victims of this crisis, as they have been
   forced to forget their coltural heritage and to adopt a fictional one
   for political purposes.

LB>>                So much blood has been spilled in the name of "re-uniting
LB>>      Macedonia".
LB>True. Let's never allow (if we can) blood to be spilled again.
   amen
Michael

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader!