HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Parental authority
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:01:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <19u0t9INN6l@agate.berkeley.edu>, mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Pendragon) writes:
> 
> >b) Parent's ability to make decisions for a child under 18
> >   because of their basis being the Old World
> 
> Yes, I defy you to show how someone raised in a vastly different culture
> is more aware of the intricate context in which my life spins, than I
> myself am.  I do not deny the wisdom of experience, and I am always
> appreciative of the advice and guidance of my parents.  But when it
> comes to _making decisions for a child_ (which in and of itself denies
> both free will and personal growth), the child will almost always better
> understand the specific context of the decision than the parent in any
> issue directly concerning that child.  This is due to deeper immersion in
> this host culture, as well as simply being the main person in the situation
> which demands a decision.
> 

Q.1 Is the child deeper immersed in the host culture than the parents ?

Parents have lived in the New World culture at least as long
as the child since the child either came with them from the Old World
or was born here.

If the parents made an effort to understand the host culture by virtue
of reading about it, observing it first hand, or via their interaction 
with the natives here at work on neighborhoods around them, or by sitting 
down with school authorities, or by going to school functions etc., they 
would have as deep a knowledge of the host culture as the child, perhaps 
even deeper.


Q.2 Isn't the child the main person in the situation ? 

Yes.

Q.3 Doesn't the child understand the specific context of the decision 
better than the parent ? Would the child not make better decision then ?

Not necessarily. Child does know about the 'local' context but does not 
necessarily understand the 'larger' or 'global' context. Child may not
understand all the pros and cons of making a decision because
his/her ability to think and analyze situations rationally is not fully 
developed. Alternatively s(he) just doesn't have the 'global' data. 

Under these circumstances, the child may
subject his/her decision to short term interests like gaining acceptance
in a clique (which for example may be a dominant group in the school
but may not particularly be a civilized group in a larger context), 
or gaining some grade (by cheating for example, such cheating
may hurt him/her later more than it helps now) or an opposite sex friend 
(who may seem friendly but actually wants to take advantage of you) 
or even as mundane a thing as a material item (but can get the child in a 
fight).

A child is subject to temptation. Child may be approached from individuals
who may not have the best interests for the child in mind. Child may
yield to such approaches because of limited knowledge about the world
and consequences of certain actions. A parent by virtue of having
dwelled in the world longer may be able to foresee such consequences 
and prevent the child from falling in 'traps'.


Alok
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: IA double standard (was Re: age of "control"?)
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:57:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <MSANGHVI.92Sep30124745@cs.ulowell.edu> msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep29.191329.18864@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>
>   In article <1992Sep27.201450.11787@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>   >
>   >(Total side note:  This may well be a reason more liberated Indian
>   >women don't date Indian guys....they have given up all right to them
>				    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   >by traditional rules...and they never know whether the next Indian guy
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   >they meet will be shocked and horrified to find out that they've dated
>   >Americans.  It's easier to avoid Indian guys altogether.)
>		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>   Shocked and horrified that they've dated Americans?  Again, I hope
>   you're talking II, because IA ain't that way.
>
>There are a helluva lot IAs out here who treat Indian girls/women like
>sluts/whores simply beacuse they have been out with non-Indians

If that's true, and I haven't found that to be true at least among my
friends here at Berkeley, it's a pity.

If you mean that in the strict sense that they're denigrated for going
out with a non-Indian, it's unjustified.  But if you mean that in the
sense that they're looked down upon for being physically involved with more
than one guy, that's an even greater pity, but not one unique to IA's.

>   I and many of my IA guy friends don't date II women not because
>   "we've given up all rights to them by tradition rules" but because
>   they tend to have an entirely different world-view than we do.
>
>Agreed there is quiet a big diffrence between the II perspective and the IA
>perspective of things. That is something I have learnt the hard way. But that
>still doesnt mean that I have blown off IA women (no I am not II but I am not
>IA either...I am somewhere in between). I know quiet a few II women who would
>make good companions for an IA guy. "Times they are a changin' " back home and
>you'll be surprised as to how much alike things are starting to be.

It's funny, but I _have_ started coming across II women (mostly from large
cities like Bombay) who smoke out, sleep around, and generally do other
non-traditional things.  Then I have several IA friends who live in single-
sex dorms with other women, learn Bharat Natyam dance, mind their parents,
will get arranged marriages, etc.

>Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi        |  UMass-Lowell Dept. of Computer Science

Manish
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@ad-6.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Transplanted Indians
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 22:36:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.184317.28538@nas.nasa.gov> raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>at Berkeley) and he said he will go back to India 'to die'. Classic 
>example of your transplanted indian.


It's funny, in a morbid sense, 'cos `to die' has so many connotations.
I personally feel you die a lot easier in USA. Just try someone in a
bar for a night stand. You can also die hard, if you are into the
Bruce man. You can die with dignity and considerable savings to your
kith using the suicide machine. Dying to go back to your native land,
can also make you die, a rather vicarious death. There are a whole
bunch of cravings you can die for like McDonald's grease and Play(girl)boy
center-folds (sold in India at x25 cover price). A delectable way to die
is to call Australia and be greeted `have a good day.' Finally, a good
reason to die is not to pay for India calls, at least I want the
option to hibernate.


Murthy


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
From: sklautky@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky)
Subject: Re: Liberal politicians can be racists too
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 07:45:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.205143.15564@nas.nasa.gov>
raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:

>IMHO, politicians will take any side that gets them votes. So there
>is nothing that prevents a politician from being a racist with a 
>liberal mask (Senator Byrd's and Governor Wallace's?).

I think its generally true but I can't see that being exclusively
the case.

> Also the 
>'country club mentality' allows people to be bigots in the privacy
>of their homes, (ie, thinking that it is okay to have different rules 
>for different people).

Actually, the privacy of your own home allows you to be a bigot.
People can be bigots even if they don't think that they have
different rules for different people.

BTW, I know what you mean by "different rules for different people"
but strictly speaking we need those sometimes.  Such as when you
meet a politician on the street vs when you meet your mother on the
street.  :-)

>My feeling is that as the racial mixture in a given population
>increases, racism increases upto a point. Beyond that it probably
>decreases as a result of increase in social tolerance.

Hmmm, I wonder.  I think it depends a lot on the economics of the
situation.  When people are feeling economically strained tension
increases and a racial mixture could make it more difficult
because of the pressure "to look after one's own."

The question I have about racial diversity goes like this:
Is the act of increasing the racial mix of a select population,
such as university students, sufficient for broadening the horizons
of the attendees?  Or, do you have to do more?

-=] Steve [=-   SKLAUTKY@VAXA.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Atharvan)
Subject: Re: Kerala, delicates:
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 08:41:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep19.095941.7625@ac.dal.ca> indran@ac.dal.ca writes:
[...]

>You must be reffering to Tapioca/ Cassava (Manihot esculenta!) 
>In the south (old Travancoor) it is called Kappa, in the central kerale 
>from Cochi to Trissur it is called Maracheeni  and in the Malabar region 
>it is called Poola. Many southies visiting the nort for the first 
>time find this transformation very difficult. 
>
>
>
>Ravi


In our parts of Kerala, Trichur, especially engandiyur, vadannapally areas
kappa was called kolli. And the sweet potatoe was termed kappa.
Strange, but true. 

Paul Chemmanoor.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com (joseph)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Re: -- The Psychology of a Net-Writer: Part I -- by Jose
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:44:53 GMT
Reply-To: joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com (joseph)
Followup-To: alt.culture.kerala
Organization: GE Research


In article <1992Sep26.161017.10793@julian.uwo.ca>, jose@csd.uwo.ca (Jose Thekkumthala) writes:
>
>Well guys, ACK has come to some sort of a stalemate. All the famous
>net-writers have gone out of business. They simply have run out of 
>ideas. This article is only a feeble attempt to rattle everyone 
>and resurrect the slowly dying ack.
>
     No, no, no.  You have this wrong idea that you have to have some
     ideas or something substantial to say, if you want to write
     on the net.  I can see that you really believe that.  Just look
     at your article !  It makes interesting reading and you spent
     some time and thoughts into writing it.  

     I hate to tell you that that is not the way net articles are
     supposed to be.  The way it is supposed to be as follows:
     During the course of the day (or of the night as
     the case may be), while you are working or studying, you get bored.
     You fire up the newsreader, and read couple of articles. Then, you
     post something in response, even though you don't have anything
     substantial to say.  That is the way REAL net articles are supposed
     to be.

     Case in point:  Look at this article of mine. I don't have anything
     substantial to say.  (Except that your aticle made interesting
     reading.  I have read  only part-1.  I have reserved part-2 for
     my next break).  Still I write, don't I ?

     Now, the problem is the silent majority.  It has been estimated
     (by yours truly, nobody else) that there are 23.7 people who read
     the articles for every person who posts something on the net.  This
     silent majority do not post anything for one or more of the following:

     a. have nothing to say  (not a valid reason, as I explained above)
     b. Is too shy to post something (Get a hold of yourself ! what are
        you afraid of ?)
     c. Does not want to start a war with prominent net personalities.
        (I don't either, but that hasn't stopped me, so why should it stop
        you ?)

     I don't know about you, but when I fire up the newsreader, if there
     are any articles on ACK, even if I don't read them in detail, it
     makes me feel good.  It tells me that we (I mean all of us who have
     some ties to Kerala) exist; that we are alive and well in these
     foreign lands.  That I am  not alone.  That there are others who are
     just like me. They know the places I know.  They know the people
     I did.  They have the same values and passions as I do.  Oh..., I 
     want to cry.  Thanks guys, and gals....  for all the vain articles...
     and for the recipies....(even though I don't cook anything), 
     and for the malayala ganangal....
     and for everything else...

     bye...

     as Ravi would say.... "peace..."
     or as Paul would say.... "stay cool..."

     james joseph             joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: madanga@hobo.ECE.ORST.EDU (Arun Madangarli)
Subject: Re: Kerala, delicates:
Followup-To: Article 304 (alt.culture.kerala) 
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:03:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.084158.25148@colorado.edu> paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Atharvan) writes:
>In article <1992Sep19.095941.7625@ac.dal.ca> indran@ac.dal.ca writes:
>[...]
>
>>You must be reffering to Tapioca/ Cassava (Manihot esculenta!) 
>>In the south (old Travancoor) it is called Kappa, in the central kerale 
>>from Cochi to Trissur it is called Maracheeni  and in the Malabar region 
>>it is called Poola. Many southies visiting the nort for the first 
>>time find this transformation very difficult. 
>>
>>
>>
>>Ravi
>
>
>In our parts of Kerala, Trichur, especially engandiyur, vadannapally areas
>kappa was called kolli. And the sweet potatoe was termed kappa.
>Strange, but true. 
>
* True, Kappa was kollikkizhangu, in most parts of Trichur.  But I thought
  that sweet potato(e!) was madhurakizhangu....

* The Malabar name for Kappa (ie. Poola) has caused a lot of embarassing
  situations for northies visiting south.  I remember my grand uncle,
  on a visit from Manjeri,  going upto a Tapioca seller in Trivandrum
  (who happened to be a woman, to put the frosting on the cake !) and 
  asking her " Poolakkentha vila ?" .  Sorting out the resulting contretemps
  was one of the most nightmarish experiences of my  young
  life.....

* I have seen nostalgia for Kappa, on this network.  I have seen nostalgia
  for different types of "meen"...( Chala, Ayila, Mathi....).

  But I wonder why no one has yet mentioned that Bacchanalian fare, that
  immortal triumvirate of drinking sessions in Kerala...(or am I
  the one and only eternal inebriate on this network ?!)...

  Kallum, meenum,kappayum.  Koottare, what Angreji fare can beat this
  combination !......

  kallu and kappa...Nectar and Ambrosia !


>Paul Chemmanoor.

Arun.P.Madangarli.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:37:03 EDT
From: <TXK9@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Malayalees abroad-India Today!

There is a very nice article about Malayalees abroad in the latest
issue of India Today written by Sashi Tharoor. All you home sick
readers, don't miss it. Enjoy.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keshav                                 FULCRUM
Industrial Engg.               CIM LAB:V-PAD and AI group
Penn. State Uty.                     814-867-5922
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Atharvan)
Subject: Re: Malayalam Books in the U.S.
Keywords: books, malayalam, library
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:54:58 GMT

In article <1a285lINNoq7@gap.caltech.edu> sathi@cco.caltech.edu (Narayana Sateesh Pillai) writes:
>>         RETURN ON THE LAST DATE STAMPED BELOW
>>            9-SEPT-1968
>
>>and wondering about the person who borrowed the book back then.
>
>I think it was probably my father! He studied there from
>'64 to '68 (assuming you are talking about Urbana-Champaigne).
>
>Of course, there were a few other Malayalees.
>

1] Hmm, begins to sound like a hindi movie, long lost friends and all.
   Look closely, probably will find a blue locket with a swan embossed
   on it. And thereby will hang a tale. 
   What next, long lost twins reunited on a.c.k. ? :-) :-)

2] On the topic of books and markings in books, while we were in Belgaum,
   my sister and brother told me how every Secret Seven story would have
   a marking in pencil, describing how some treasure was to be found at a
   spot marked with an X at the military grounds.

   The kids who used the military library, when first introduced to the 
   joys of those silly books, would take them at their words and a group
   of tiny tots would be found digging up the parade grounds and had to
   be chased away all the time.

   
3] Stay Cool.
   

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
.   Rain makes me remember,                                                .
.   The sunset of that golden hour,                                        .
.   When my eyes were first opened,                     Paul Chemmanoor    .
.   And I saw your eyes, No longer blind.                   Boulder.       .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: s910700@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Mareena Joseph)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Re: dowry
Summary: dowry
Keywords: dowry
Date: 2 Oct 92 06:46:25 GMT


  Infact, giving and getting dowry are crimes according to the Indian law.
The people involved in it, like groom and his parents, and girl's parents
will be arrested if there is anyone who is courageous enough to complain
against them, i.e. like a witness. Even if the police knows what is going
on, they cannot take action unless there is at least one so called 'witness',
else the case will be pointless. But due to the lack of knowledge about the
law for ordinary people, and due to the influence of rich men in the society,
no one will come forward to complain, and thus start a new revolution. Even
if there is someone to come forward against a rich man, he can 'stop' him in
all meaning with his great influence. Our society is so much corrupted; 
people need self-realization to stop everything in the real life today.
There is indeed a long way to go.

MJN (Bindu),
RMIT.
 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| innalekku oru charithramundu, nalekku oru sathyavum; randum nammude kaivasam |
|      illa; pinnenthu prayojanam ? athukondu innine mathram snehikkuka.       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 1992 23:09:00 -0400 
From: Sudha Neelakantan <sudha+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: dowry
	<1992Oct2.170400.27188@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>


mchundat@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mathai Chundattu) writes:
[selectively deleted stuff]
> Think of yourself as a girl who flunked SSLC for the n'th time. You want
> a husband who can support you. What right do you have to ask him to
> support you if you hadn't brought wealth with you. It is a fact that in
> kerala the husband is always more educated and capable than the wife.
> Uh...
> Mathai
Ugh...
flunking an SSLC for the n'th time?  do you seriously consider
standardized garbage like that an indicator of anything?  Regardless
of whether I get 99%ile scores on everything, i would consider it the
height of intellectual snobbery and yes, moronic idiocy to presume
that someone with a 50%ile score did not have anything meaningful to
teach me.  Think about the marxian ideology that marriage is nothing
but legalized prostitution.  you also apparently consider this other
human being a piece of property.  if it would increase "the" wifes
value you could consider putting her through school.  she could
probably bring home a bigger paycheck than you could, given the right
encouragement and incentives.  and you would probably see returns on
that investment within a realistic timeframe.  you couldn't with any
justification presume an intelligence of a lesser order than a males.
thus all you would need to remedy is the lack of education/
opportunity and rebuild the self-perception stunted to an empty
stereotype by males like you among others.  don't you owe her a
reasonable amount of payment for such mundane things as sex or a well
maintained home if nothing else, or don't you believe in a minimum
wage[figure in the overtime, and hardship pay for putting up with
someone like you]?  you would have to be a moron if you believed that
your initial status of being better value for the money precluded
eclipse by your wife were she given the same opportunities.  and you
might actually be able to stay home all day and cook a hot meal for
the evening and dutifully make love on demand(what a utopian life!)
leaving nasty, difficult things like going out and making a living to
your wife. :-)
 

Sudha

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
   Sudha K. Neelakantan     < Clouds come floating into my life,  
    The Heinz School of      \ no longer to carry rain or usher storm   
Public Policy and Management  \ but to add color to my sunset sky.
      Carnegie Mellon          >    - Rabindranath Tagore -
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com (joseph)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
Subject: Re: Chenappady (Was Re: Malayalam Books in the U.S.)
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:16:44 GMT
Reply-To: joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com (joseph)
Followup-To: alt.culture.kerala
Organization: GE Research


In article <1992Sep30.105528.16057@marlin.jcu.edu.au>, sajeev@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (Sajeev) writes:

>Is this the Chenappady near Manimala, Joseph? It is too fond a place to me.

   Of course it is ! There is and can be no other Chenappady in the world !!

   There are a few little changes since you were there last time.

   A mango tree grew up next to, and almost interwined with the banyan
   tree that stood in the middle of the junction.  So the junction is now
   aptly called the AALMAVU junction.  And the Chenappady CITY is now
   about a quarter of a mile down the road.

   Proprietor Kuttappan's Javulikkada cum thayyalkkada is still the only
   tailor shop. A bridge and consequently couple of buses connect
   chenappady to the outside world now.  There is electricity, but it
   is in a constant state of brown-out -- average voltage = 117.5 volts on
   the 230 circuit.

   All in all, we are still in the 1950's.

   james joseph                joseph@c2a.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.kerala
From: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Murali Damodaran)
Subject: Ideas for ACK
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:45:43 GMT


This is alt.culture.kerala.

Let us have some threads on the following topics:   
(1) Kerala History- Marthanda Varma, Chera Kings etc 
(2) Dance Forms - Mohiniattam, Kathakali, Theyyam, Koodiyattam etc
(3) Traditional Music - Chendai and so on
(4) Kerala Architecture - Significance of Nallukettu etc
(5) Kerala Temple Architecture and Sculpture
(6) Tourist Spots in Kerala - Kovalam, Ponmudi, Periyar Wildlife Sanctuary etc
(7) Kerala Literature- Vallathol, Mahakavi Kumarasan etc
(8) Social Reformers - Narayana Guru, Chattambi Swami
(9) Martial Art Forms - Kalaripayattu
(10)Food
(11)Festivals and Significance - Vishu, Onam, Pooram etc
(12)Variation of Kerala Lifestyle, language etc from Thiruvananthapuram
to Kasargod


-- 
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
* Murali Damodaran, Sch. of MPE    <> Internet: mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg     *
* Nanyang Technological University <> Bitnet  : mdamodaran@ntuvax           *
* Nanyang Avenue, SINGAPORE 2263   <> Phone : 65-799-5599  Fax: 65-791-1859 *