HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:25:25 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Pacific ESI, Sydney, AUSTRALIA

In article <6557@otc.otca.oz>,
    brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

| 	- PINs do not start with a '0'

One of mine does.  Oops - I just compromised security...

| 	- PINs do not have more than 2 digits the same

Possible, since that would make it easy to observe someone typing it.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave
           Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?"
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: chris@cs.uwa.oz.au (chris mcdonald)
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:04:04 GMT

In <15042@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au> s924683@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (CHANDANA PERERA) writes:

>  Well I have been told by the engineers who design the ATM mechines and the
>  PIN generation mechines that if you guess or generate the PIN using 
>  known data (ie Account Num, Name), U will have a proberbility of
>  around 1/2^256 (ie one in 2 to the power of 256) of getting it right.

Then I'll just guess the PINs with no knowledge and have a 1:10^4 of getting
it right.

This is a fascinating ongoing discussion, its amazing how many differing
experts we have on this subject in Australia!

_______________________________________________________________________________
Chris McDonald.            _--_|\
                          /      \
                          X_.--._/
                                v
Department of Computer Science,   AARNet: chris@budgie.cs.uwa.edu.au
University of Western Australia,  FTP:    bilby.cs.uwa.edu.au,  130.95.1.11
Crawley, Western Australia, 6009. SCUD:   (31.97 +/-10% S, 115.81 +/-10% E)
PHONE:       +61 9 380 2533       FAX:    +61 9 380 1089
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.sun-works
From: clance@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Sue Clancy)
Subject: duplicating tapes
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:30:43 GMT

I have been trying to find an organisation which will make copies of
the master of the statistical package we distribute in Australia,
S-PLUS.  I would like the contents of a normal 1/4" Sun cartridge
duplicated, but have been unable to find anyone who does this sort
of thing.

If anyone out there can point me in the right direction, I would be
grateful.  Perhaps you should email me at clance.syd.dms.csiro.au
rather than bother the rest of the news group with the information
(says she hopefully).

Thanks in anticipation,

Sue Clancy
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Hello
Followup-To: can.general
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:34:10 GMT

Hello.
From: s925892@numbat.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Jason Pouflis)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: ELLE MacPherson causes havoc in Melbourne Central
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:35:29 GMT
Distribution: aus

Thousands of Australia's most eligible (read: desperate) bachelors
converge on Melbourne's city Myer store today.

Yes, Myer was doing a Elle MacPherson Lingerie parade, on level 6.

Couldnt get upto level 6 since all the escalator and elevators
were packed by crowds of males with hormones on overdrive.

I actually caught a glimpse of someone who might have seen her car.
And, believe it or not, I was standing next to one of the bodyguards
on level 3.

Well thats my claim to fame.
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
From: bena@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Ben Aveling)
Subject: Re: implication of GST for savings
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:44:35 GMT

The inflationary impact isn't nice, but the real bitch about the GST is
that it is so fair.  Private school fees - exempted, food, nope.  Private
health insurance, exempted, even overseas trips exempted! Luxury Cars, much
cheaper, etc etc etc.

	GST - Good for Some Tax


	Ben
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: New Victorian Premier/result using PR
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Distribution: aus
Date:  7 Oct 92 23:35:07 GMT

In countries where they have PR there is an equal reformist group which
wants to shut out the smaller parties because it makes for horrible
coalitions that stymie effective government.

There is no perfect system.

No system is `better.'

Let's get back to work.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: pjordan@rp.CSIRO.AU (Patrick Jordan)
Subject: Re: Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19 (Q
Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics, NSW, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 08:41:39 GMT

beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
> 
> thanx for all the info brendan. it certainly is an amazing project.
> 
> just as a general question though...
> 
> does anybody think that is actually worth spending .75 billion dollars
> to get more cars into sydney during peak hour?
> 
> after peak times it seems to me that it doesn't really acheive much and yet
> all the traffic passing at these times still get taxed (tolled) extra
> to help build the thing (if the tunnel hadn't been built the bridge tax should
> have gone down (it used to be $1 before the tunnel plan)).
> 
> is this a case of the community at large paying for the luxury of just a few
> citizens and the richest few at that? how many car parks exist in sydney city?
> i would guess it would be less than 50 thousand, but i think a lot more people
> than that will end up paying the toll on a regular basis. i would also be
> surprised if much more than a small proportion of the city parkers would be
> working for much less than a $100K package each year.
> 
> another other point is whether the city will be better of for the change.
> there will be no requirement and no money to think much about moving from
> private to public transport in sydney city for many years to come. what
> government could even consider regulation to reduce the numbers of cars in
> the city now when that would result in such an expensive tunnel being under
> utilised?
> 
> don't get me wrong. i'm still completely blown out by what has been acheived,
> but i wonder if more a "wonderful folly of" than a "wonderful advance for"
> sydneyKind.
> 

I agree with you about the public transport. I think we really need to
get our act together with public transport, or the traffic problems
will just keep getting worse. However, while I agree with you in
principle, I wonder if your comments on the use of the tunnel is
entirely accurate. I suspect (and with no real evidence to back it
up), that based on where the tunnel goes, it is largely used by people
who are bypassing the city for other destinations south and east. Thus
the idea of them being rich business executives may not be wholly
accurate. 

Also, I am basically against regulations on cars in the city. I think
we really need to encourage people in positive ways (better pub.trans
basically) rather than in negative ways. But I could be wrong.

-- 

Be seeing you!

Patrick. (who only ever uses the tunnel (or the bridge) to go North).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Jordan                      |          _
CSIRO Division of Radiophysics      |        // \   I am not a number,
NSW, Australia                      |       /( 6 )  I am a free man.
pjordan@rp.csiro.au                 |      () \_/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:01:58 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland

brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

>	- PINs do not start with a '0'

This isn't true, but I can't tell you exactly how I know....

cheers,


--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
From: kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: tradition, node names
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:56:02 GMT
Organization: werple public-access UNIX, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au

beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
Oh, hi, RainForest!

>how about...

>blakes7:
>    blake vila gan kali avon travis zen slave orac slear ...
                    ^ Cally                         ^ Sleer
(sorry, je suis pedantic)
and don't forget
jenna dayna tarrant soolin
8-)

Kathryn Andersen
(aus token B7 fan)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Avon: Blake?
Blake: Well, you certainly took your time finding me.
			(Blake's 7: Terminal [C13])
-- 
 _--_|\		Kathryn Andersen	<kat@werple.apana.org.au>
/      \	Hawthorn -> Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia
\_.--.*/	-> Southern Hemisphere -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy
      v			-- My other account is an Apollo --
From: beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:22 EST
Subject: Re: Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19 (Q
Nf-ID: #R:otc.otca.oz:6543:peg:993300072:000:1809
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!beam    Oct 16 13:22:00 1992


>/* Written  7:41 pm  Oct 14, 1992 by pjordan@rp.CSIRO.AU in peg:aus.general */
>/* ---------- "Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19 (Q" ---------- */
>beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:
>> ...
>> does anybody think that is actually worth spending .75 billion dollars
>> to get more cars into sydney during peak hour?
>> ...
>
>I agree with you about the public transport. I think we really need to
>get our act together with public transport, or the traffic problems
>will just keep getting worse. However, while I agree with you in
>principle, I wonder if your comments on the use of the tunnel is
>entirely accurate. I suspect (and with no real evidence to back it
>up), that based on where the tunnel goes, it is largely used by people
>who are bypassing the city for other destinations south and east. Thus
>the idea of them being rich business executives may not be wholly
>accurate. 

the effect would be an indirect one. i guess my last posting was a little
misleading :-).

what would happen if no private cars were driving into the city in the
mornings? i suspect that the harbour bridge would do a much better job of
handling the through traffic (perhaps not 15 minutes), but the net cost to
the community of such a solution is very low in comparison to a tunnel.

another idea would be bridge shuttle buses with transit hubs on either side
that would do a better job of taking where you want to go by bus (you'd still
have to change though).

on the other hand, as someone else mentioned, perhaps the tunnel is just a
natural result of people living further from work, work places being further
apart, a massive puddle that only has a couple of places to cross, and a people
who love building things ...

i guess you would have to design a city that really works well.

cheers, tim :-)

ps. eat the rich!

Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.jobs,bne.general
From: rwt@kurango.cit.gu.edu.au (Rodney Topor)
Subject: PhD opportunities at Griffith University
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 07:34:33 GMT



			Griffith University
	    School of Computing and Information Technology

		   PHD OPPORTUNITIES IN COMPUTING


Griffith University invites applications from qualified Honours graduates
to study for a PhD in the School of Computing and Information Technology 
at the Nathan Campus, Brisbane.

Major areas of research strength within the School include:

* Parallel computing and supercomputing: algorithms, architectures, 
  programming, applications
* Software Quality (within the Australian Software Quality Research Institute): 
  software process assessment, programming methodology, software product quality
* Database systems: distributed, object-oriented, deductive database systems;
  enterprise integration architectures
* Artificial intelligence: knowledge representation and reasoning, logic,
  expert systems, natural language, philosophy
* Information systems: soft and structured systems methodologies, 
  decision support systems, business information systems
* Graphics and image processing}: algorithms, image analysis, visualisation

Challenging projects in established teams using state-of-the-art computing
facilities are available in all areas.

Scholarships available for PhD students include Australian Postgraduate
Research Awards and Griffith University Postgraduate Research Awards.  All
scholarship holders will have their stipends supplemented to the maximum
tax-free amount, currently $18,403 p.a., and are exempted from HECS
charges.  Funding of conference travel is available.

Casual teaching and research work is available to further supplement a
scholarship holder's tax-free income.

For further information and application forms, please contact Professor
Rodney Topor by phone (07) 875 5042, fax (07) 875 5051, or email
rwt@cit.gu.edu.au.  Applications close on 31 October 1992.

Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
From: ph@cs.uow.edu.au (Phillip Herring)
Subject: Re: implication of GST for savings
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:51:22 GMT

ggr@koonda.acci.com.au (Greg Rose) writes:

>Suppose, on Jan 1 1993, a GST of 10% on basically everything is
>introduced. Well, on Dec 31 1992, a load of groceries at the
>supermarket might cost me $100. Twenty-four hours later, I will use up
>$110 to buy the same load of groceries. Therefore, money I had in the
>bank will now buy me 10% less than it used to. However, there has been
>no inflation :-), as the cost of the goods has not gone up. 

Now Greg... are we just playing word games here? What do we mean
when we say that "the cost of the goods has not gone up", vs.
"I will use up [10% more dollars] to buy the same load of
groceries"? I'm not trying to be a bastard here, I'm just wondering
how the perpetrators "plausibly deny" that this is inflation. Or am 
I missing the meaning of the smiley?

(Incidentally, your savings have been devalued by 9.1%, not 10%.)

-- 

-- Phil.
==========================================================================
        These opinions (c) 1992 Phil Herring (ph@cs.uow.edu.au)
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
From: ivan@atlas.abccomp.oz.au (Ivan)
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Organization: TurboSoft Pty Ltd, Sydney, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 23:48:18 GMT



>>No, I don't really know either, but I reckon that if the PIN was hardwired in 
>>the reader - ie: no PIN info is transmitted over the lines, then the PIN must 
>>be on that little
>>magnetic stripe on the card. Methinks there are a whole new ballpark of 
>>security hassles with PIN on the card if the card is stolen, scrambling aside.
 
YEAH!  There are (available on the black market) machines which can reverse
the algorithm used to create the PIN (a standard, supposedly secret) and give
you (the black hat) the PIN to filch money with!  Mind you, these machines
are not very necessary - there was a case not too long ago where some guys
would sit across the road from an ATM, camera + telephoto lens in hand, taking
pictures of people tapping in their PINs. When the transaction was done and
victim had left, crook trundles across the road and retrieves discarded
transaction record from the "Please be tidy for Australia" bin on every ATM.
This gives him the account number, so he can encode a new card and voila! 
Victim receives a notice from the wank telling him he has a -ve balance due 
to withdrawals, handling fees and BAD tax (appropriate). Hmm!

It is not hard to read a mag stripe on any card - most of them have really
mickey-mouse encoding schemes. However, I better not say any more, as I can
see myself getting into hot water. But "let me just say this", we pay for
a lot of theft that we never hear about, ok? 


And yes, I used to work on this stuff. 

Ivan.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan McCann                |   Internet   ivan@atlas.abccomp.oz.au
Connections Pty Ltd        |   JANET      ivan%atlas.abccomp.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
248 Johnston St, Annandale |   UUCP       uunet!munnari!atlas.abccomp.oz!ivan
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
From: amesml@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Mark L. Ames)
Subject: EFTPOS Security
Followup-To: aus.general
Keywords: PIN, EFTPOS, Card
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:42:32 GMT


Some main points on Australian EFTPOS from someone who works in
the industry:

* NO PIN's are stored on credit cards or ATM cards. An offset or 
  verification value may be stored on the card, but it is not possible 
  to determine the PIN from these values.

* PINs are encrypted inside the PIN pad using methods defined in 
  Australian Standard 2805 part 6. A secure checksum is also used to
  prevent any unauthorised changes to the transaction.

* The PIN is verified at the issuing Bank or card issuer. 

* Some large chains collect EFTPOS transactions on their own networks
  and send them to the bank or other issuers through a leased line. 

* Links are leased lines through Telecom's Tran$end network.

* Different card issuers use different techniques to generate and 
  verify PINs. 

* Security requirements and procedures make it impossible for a card
  issuer to know your PIN. PINs are verified by special security 
  processors that won't let anyone see a PIN.

* The Australian Payment Systems Council and the Reserve Bank review
  the security of electronic payment systems like EFTPOS.

* Australian EFTPOS systems are among most secure in the world.

Mark Ames
National Australia Bank
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: robf@multib.yartou.oz (Robert Fowler)
Subject: Re: Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19 (Q
Reply-To: robf%multib.yartou.oz@atom.ansto.gov.au
Organization: Multibase Pty Ltd
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:10:26 GMT

beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au wrote:
: after peak times it seems to me that it doesn't really acheive much and yet
: all the traffic passing at these times still get taxed (tolled) extra
: to help build the thing (if the tunnel hadn't been built the bridge tax should
: have gone down (it used to be $1 before the tunnel plan)).

I live in the eastern suburbs and travel to North Ryde. There is no
practical public transport to the commercial area of North Ryde (it takes
up to two hours, two trains, a bus that goes all through the back
of North Ryde and a walk, that is not practical).
By car, before the tunnel, it took 50 minutes, 20 of those waiting to
get on to the bridge, as the lanes are all given to in coming traffic.
Using the tunnel (and the new Pacific Highway bypass) it only takes
me 25 minutes to work.

: 
: is this a case of the community at large paying for the luxury of just a few
: citizens and the richest few at that? how many car parks exist in sydney city?
: i would guess it would be less than 50 thousand, but i think a lot more people
: than that will end up paying the toll on a regular basis. i would also be
: surprised if much more than a small proportion of the city parkers would be
: working for much less than a $100K package each year.

I do not care about the 'suits' in their company Fairlanes.
The tunnel is good for me and I have nothing to do with them.

: another other point is whether the city will be better of for the change.
: there will be no requirement and no money to think much about moving from
: private to public transport in sydney city for many years to come. what
: government could even consider regulation to reduce the numbers of cars in
: the city now when that would result in such an expensive tunnel being under
: utilised?

They gave two extra lanes and took one away from the bridge for the bus lane.
I am paying for the bus lane in my toll unfairly, but this supports the
idea of encouraging public transport. The bus lane makes it quicker
for buses to get into the city. Not much quicker, as the traffic is
lighter and everybody gets in quicker. The RTA use this bull story to justify
the bus lane.

--
	 robf%multib.yartou.oz@atom.ansto.gov.au
From: map@hal.maths.monash.edu.au (Michael Page)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:43:55 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Mathematics Department, Monash University, Australia

dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave `aus.bizarre' Horsfall) writes:
>    brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
>
>| 	- PINs do not start with a '0'
>
>One of mine does.  Oops - I just compromised security...
>
>| 	- PINs do not have more than 2 digits the same
>
>Possible, since that would make it easy to observe someone typing it.
>

Also not true, at least for some institutions.  I'm willing to believe
that they can't have all four digits identical, though.  (I'm not too
sure about Brendan's maths either, though I haven't bothered to figure
out the right answer - I'd be surprised if it was exactly 7100.)
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael Page, Maths Dept, Monash University, Clayton, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3168
  email: map@hal.maths.monash.edu.au phone: +61 3 565 4486 FAX: +61 3 565 4403
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Steve Balogh (+61 3 565 4747))
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Organization: Monash University, Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:45:29 GMT

In article <15042@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au> s924683@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (CHANDANA PERERA) writes:
>
>  Well I have been told by the engineers who design the ATM mechines and the
>  PIN generation mechines that if you guess or generate the PIN using 
>  known data (ie Account Num, Name), U will have a proberbility of
>  around 1/2^256 (ie one in 2 to the power of 256) of getting it right.

Q.  How many digits are in a pin number?
A.  4

Q.  How many combinations can you get from 4 digits?
A.  10000

Q.  What are your chances of hitting the correct pin number?
A.  1/10000 (assuming the algorithm generates a constant spectrum of numbers)

Q.  What happens to the other (2^256 - 10000) combinations?
A.  Dunno, but there must be the occasional duplicate! Perhaps they all evaluate
    to zero. ;)

Regards,
         Steve

----_--_-_-_--_-__-_------_-__---_-___-_----_-____-_-_--__-_--_--___-_-_-_--__-_
Steve Balogh  VK3YMY   (Maths G.14)   | steve@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University, Clayton Campus     |      37 54'38.8"S  145 07'47.1"E ...ICBM
Wellington Road, Clayton.  	      |      +61 3 565 4747 Voice (Office)
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA. 3168	      |      +61 3 565 4746 Fax
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics