HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilanowski@rsbs0.anu.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Oplata za Studia: SONDAZ: REPEATED
Date: 6 Oct 92 06:03:17 GMT
Organization: Research School of Biological Sciences, Australian National University

Wieki temu zamiescilem na sieci artykul konczacy sie pytaniem:

In article <1992Oct1.111828.1@rsbs0.anu.edu.au>, wilanowski@rsbs0.anu.edu.au writes:
> 
> JAK WYGLADA SPRAWA ODPLATNOSCI ZA STUDIA I OPIEKE MEDYCZNA W INNYCH KRAJACH?
  [tj. poza Australia]
> 
> Na sieci jest pewnie z kilkaset tysiecy osob z kilkudziesieciu krajow, wiec po
> takim sondazu bedzie mozna dokonac interesujacych porownan. Odpowiedzi prosze
> lepiej do soc.culture.polish niz do mnie (kazda moze byc bardzo interesujaca).
> 
> Pozdrawiam,
> Tomek Wilanowski
> Canberra, Australia

Nadeszly w sumie dwie odpowiedzi na temat, obie z Australii. Dziekuje za nie,
bo objasnily mi sporo szczegolow, jednak glownie ciekawi mnie porownanie
systemow finansowania oswiaty i opieki lekarskiej w roznych krajach, skad
mozna bedzie pomyslec, jaki system bylby wskazany dla Polski. Ponadto mysle, ze
bylaby to mila chwila oddechu przed nastepnym tysiacem postingow o polskim
antysemityznie i zydowskim antypolonizmie.

Dodatkowe pytanie:

CZY NAPRAWDE NIE MA W SIECI NIKOGO SPOZA AUSTRALII? A MOZE CI SPOZA AUSTRALII
NIE UMIEJA PISAC O NICZYM TYLKO O ZYDACH, OBOZACH KONCENTRACYJNYCH ITP.?

Pozdrowienia dla wszystkich kangurow,

Tomek Wilanowski
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Polish complicity - Jewish complicity
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:10:53 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Sep14.191116.440@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.024936.11121@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>>>Gas chambers, crematoriums and ramps could be bombed without greater loss 
>>>of life as if it would still function.

>>I see.  So you think that bombing was that accurate?  That bombs sufficient
>>to destroy the killing plants wouldn't have meant sufficient stray bombs
>>to destroy densely packed barracks, too?

>Sad to say, but weren't the occupants of the barracks doomed to die in
>the gas chambers anyway?  Since ZERO would survive the gas and some
>would probably survive a bombing raid, did they have a better chance
>with the bombing?  And with the camp extermination facilities out of
>commission, how many people who would later arrive at the camp only to
>be executed have survived?

Unfortunately, there were no intelligence reports from 1946 available in
1944.

*NOBODY* in command of bombing raids, in fact, nobody in the entired
Allied armed forces, was aware of the extent of the Auschwitz operation
at the time.  Nobody who entered Auschwitz after its liberation was
prepared for what they found.  The reports of what was happening there
varied widely, and information often got lost or distorted or contradicted,
as is often the cae with intelligence information.  

It's an easy call to make today.  It wasn't then, especially with
the military focused only on the cause of forcing Hitler's surrender.

Roger
>
>It seems more likely that more people would have survived the war had
>the camps been bombed.  Certainly no less.
>
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:40:35 GMT

In article <1ab6ivINNhs1@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
>roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>[...]

>>If I had to make such a choice, I'd choose Germany, simply because the
>>economic situation of German Jews was such that emigration was far easier
>>when the time came.  Only 37% of Germany's Jews perished in the Holocaust;
>>what was the percentage for Poland?

>To partly rephrase the insinuated question: to what extent was Polish
>nationalism (indirectly) responsible for the high percentage of Jewish
>deaths in Poland in WW2 ?

>I'll leave that for others to decide.

>As for the other part of the insinuation -- why Germany only 37% ? -- frankly, 
>a more important reason is that when a country is fucked over,
>it's at the mercy of the men with the guns.

True of both countries!  And both countries did a fair amount of self-fucking-
over.  (As I pointed out earlier, btw, the 37% figure is based on the 1933
population; 52% of the German Jews emigrated, 10% survived in Germany.  So,
going from 1941 populations, 80%+ perished.)

Roger


Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Gutman and Krakowski's "Unequal Victims"
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:16:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.051434.15995@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.033317.6339@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:

>>On the evidence of their actions, the NSZ, as well as some units
>>of the AK, were Polish Nazis, differing from German Nazis only
>>in their opinion on the specific identity of the Master Race
>>that, according to their ideology, was entitled to exterminate
>>all others as it wished. A government-in-exile that bestowed on
>						     ^^^^^^^^
>>these Polish Nazis the legitimacy of affiliation with its
>>Delegatura, and later concluded with them a formal alliance and
>>integrated them into its ranks can't quite be called anti-Nazi.
>>Anti-German, certainly. But with respect to its reaction to the
>>murder of Jews by the NSZ and some other components of its own
>>Home Army, "supposedly anti-Nazi" seems entirely appropriate.

> Just as appropriate as "Polish death camps". 
>I would like to see who among historians and where uses the terms
>"Polish Nazis" and "supposedly anti-Nazi" in reference
>to the Polish government-in-exile.

Read it again, Lech.  Nobody's calling the govt-in-exile Nazis.  Adam's
saying that the anti-Semitic groups were *affiliated* with them.  

And, wrt the Nazi Judenpolitik, "supposedly anti-Nazi" describes the
NSZ just fine, as it occasionally did the job of the Einsatzgruppen
for them.        

Roger


Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Gutman and Krakowski's "Unequal Victims"
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:14:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.033317.6339@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes:

>On the evidence of their actions, the NSZ, as well as some units
>of the AK, were Polish Nazis, differing from German Nazis only
>in their opinion on the specific identity of the Master Race
>that, according to their ideology, was entitled to exterminate
>all others as it wished. A government-in-exile that bestowed on
						     ^^^^^^^^
>these Polish Nazis the legitimacy of affiliation with its
>Delegatura, and later concluded with them a formal alliance and
>integrated them into its ranks can't quite be called anti-Nazi.
>Anti-German, certainly. But with respect to its reaction to the
>murder of Jews by the NSZ and some other components of its own
>Home Army, "supposedly anti-Nazi" seems entirely appropriate.

 Just as appropriate as "Polish death camps". 
I would like to see who among historians and where uses the terms
"Polish Nazis" and "supposedly anti-Nazi" in reference
to the Polish government-in-exile.

>				Adam_V_Reed@ATT.com


 Lech Borkowski
lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu
From: chrisn@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Chris Novak)
Subject: Biznes w Polsce?
Summary: Koszta zalozenia biznesu w Polsce
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:24:50 GMT


Czolem,

Czy ktos z Szanownych Panstwa orientuje sie jakie sa obecnie koszta zalozenia
w Polsce drobnego biznesu? Piszac 'drobny biznes' mam tutaj na mysli kiosk
z gazetami albo warzywami, maly sklep spozywczy itp. Konkretnie interesuje
mnie koszt zarejestrowania takiego interesu jak rowniez wysokosc wymaganego
kapitalu, stopa podatkowa, oraz mozliwosc uzyskania kredytu bankowego i
poziom jego oprocentowania. Z gory dziekujac za informacje,

Pozdrawiam

Krzysztof Novak
-- 
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
> Chris Novak                        | ACSnet:  chrisn@bohra.cpg.oz[.au]       <
> CP Software, 19 Cato Street,       | UUCP:  ..uunet!munnari!bohra.cpg!chrisn <
> Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia, 3123| Phone: +61-3-8230222 Fax: +61-3-8220089 <
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: dziwirek@milton.u.washington.edu (Katarzyna Dziwirek)
Subject: illumination
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:10:50 GMT




 

I'm forwarding this request for someone in Poland.

Poland, October 1992.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

  We would like to ask for your support and financial help for one
and a half years old Marcel Pacholczyk. The boy is blind because of
a doctor's mistake; after birth he was treated with inappropriate
amounts of oxygen in the incubator.

  joint efforts of his parents and the Blind Children Foundation
"Illumination" resulted in doctor Tatsuo Hirose's decision to 
perform the operation which will restore Marcel's sight. The
operation is to take place at the Retina Associates, Inc. in Boston,
the only hospital in the world where shuch operations are succesfully
performed.

  The cost of the operation is 50,000USD and marcel's parents who live in Poland
cannot afford it. That is why we appeal to you for help. Please send
your tax deductible donations to the Retina Associates Account
#60168285 at the Bank of Boston, Charles River Plaza, Boston MA
02114, USA. Make clearthat your gift is for Marcel's operation.
A young boys sight and life are at stake, please help.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: To Roman Budzianowski
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:05:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.085509.29938@fuw.edu.pl> michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:
>Roman Budzianowski writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.095857.12587@fuw.edu.pl>, michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:
>>
>>> >I certainly hope that this is not representative of the Polish
>>> >viewpoint on this issue.
>>
>>> I'm affraid it is.
>>
>>Since when Michal, you represent Polish point of view ? This was a rethorical question which
>>doesn't have to be answered. 
>
>First, I don't see any *question* in the above.  I have just expressed
>my opinion based on my 25 years of contacts with different Poles.  To
>your information, I am also a Pole, so any single point of view of mine is
>also a Polish one.  And I certainly have the right to answer to anything
>I want without having to ask your permission.

 You certainly can say anything you want, but others are free to criticize
 your statements. 
 I disagree with your statement that "any single point of view of mine
 is also a Polish one". Note, that "Polish" means something quite
 general, related to a large number of people (majority of the
 population?! A lot of people simply don't care much about politics or
 have quite different views). 
 Based on my experience your original statement is in no way representative. 

 Lech Borkowski
 lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: cpna@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Nizam Ahmed)
Subject: looking for Ryszarol Jachowicz
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 07:55:10 GMT

I am looking for the email address of

	Dr Ryszarol Jachowicz
	of Politechnika Warszawka.

Pl reply on the address

nizam@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au


Thanking you.

Nizam
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: "douglas servage" <douglas.servage@canrem.com>
Subject: polish bbs.s
Reply-To: "douglas servage" <douglas.servage@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 5 Oct 92 00:00:58 EST

I have friends who now live in Poland and they postmark their letters
SZCAECIN  AL. WYZWOLENIA 84/4...could someone tell me what this means
and if there are any IBM BBS's in this city or close by...the have an
IBM 386 class...2400 baud modem and have used CRS here...thanks in
advance...douglas
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: lbs@tkmhp4.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Sprawy gospodarcze - prywatny i panstwowy
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:31:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.164445.16471@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> jjt@aristotle.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jack Tuszynski) writes:
>Here is a who's who of Polish politics.
>
> [...] crap deleted

 Our zealot spoke again. 

 Why stop there? Look, Jack, you have a very inquisitive mind,
but try to think a little harder, don't you think the commies 
penetrated the US establishment?
 Look at this: the US economy is in a recession. Who was the president
for the last four years? Don't you think that Bush is a commie
agent? Hint: he met with Walesa several times. I am pretty sure
that the commies run the US Congress as well. After all, didn't
they invite Walesa to address the Congres? 
 We are dealing with a vast international network of a new breed
of commies. They disguise themselves as conservatives on economic
and social issues, they speak about the family values. Watch out!

 I just read in a paper this morning that NASA launched 
a spacecraft to Mars yesterday. To Mars, the Red Planet!
NASA is a commie organization! Jack, you seem to work for NASA.
Next thing you will notice they will cut your throat with
a pink razor. Run, run for life!

 Have fun,
 Lech Borkowski
lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: a57m@quads.uchicago.edu (miroslaw tadeusz sochanski)
Subject: Kuklinski szpieg romantyczny
Reply-To: a57m@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:01:25 GMT

Czy moze byc cos bardziej romantycznego w mniemaniu Polaka,
a co dopiero oficera Ludowego Wojska Polskiego niz szpiegowanie
w jedynie slusznej sprawie dla Amerykanow? Prawdopodobnie nic.

Doniesienia Kuklinskiego prawdopodobnie oszczedzily Amerykanom znaczne
sumy pieniedzy na zdobycie tych informacji w inny sposob i dlatego uwazam 
ze zamiast mowic o jego rehabilitacji powinno sie wycenic ile jego 
dzialalnosc byla warta i opodatkowac naszego romantycznego szpiega za
faktyczna wartosc transakcji. Po oplaceniu tej sumy moglby on wrocic do 
kraju, a w innym razie powinno sie go scigac jako przestepce podatkowego.

System ten ma pare zalet, odbrazowi bohatera,/nie stawia sie pomnikow
przestepcom podatkowym/, a takze uwolni naszego jasnie panujacego Pana
Prezydenta od glebszego myslenia/moze szkodzic zdrowiu psychicznemu/.  


Mirek                                    Polacy Bij kto w Boga wierzy! 
                                        - A ci z boku nie ruszaja?
                                        - To niewierzacy 


P.S. Humor dyzurny /autentyk ze szkolenia w LWP/
Najdluzsza wypowiedz oficera LWP w czasie calego szkolenia:
"Slonce zapierdala, po huju goraco, a ci w tych kondonach zapierdalaja" 
Jak sie latwo domyslec chodzilo o cwiczenia w ubraniach do czyszczenia
skazen.                              













Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:05:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.151241.25502@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1992Sep19.131854.769@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep18.180604.17805@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>>
>
[...]
>
>>Cetainly there were many signs of assimiliation of Jews within
>>thhhhhhhhhe rest of society in prewar Poland. What I was told and what I was
>>stressing was that despite several signs of assimiliation there
>>was still strong tendency among Jews to be separately organized.
>
>Was it their doing entirely, or were there also obstacles to assimilation
>placed in their way?
>
[...]
>
>Roger
>

  It is not appropriate to treat Jews as a uniform group and ask what
did they think about assimilation.  As far as Orthodox Jews in pre-IIWW
Poland are concerned their stand was quite clear - assimilation was
to be avoided.  The problem of inter-marriages illustrates this
problem the best: Jews were explicitely prohibited to marry Christians.
For a Christian to marry a Jew was a good think to do as long as
partner was baptized.
  This problem was relevant only for religious people and it is not clear
to me whether assimilation has to mean a change of religion.
  The same is true about the participation in culture: both cultures
(Jewish and Polish) were strongly rooted in their respective religions,
thus full participation in the culture meant to large extent accepting
the religious tradition (even without accepting the actual beliefs).
One has to understand the difference between traditional, national
cultures and contemporary secular pop-cultures (as for example US culture
to large extent).

  If you think about the assimilation as a participation in economical
life of the country there were NO FORMAL obstacles for Jews in pre-IIWW
Poland.  Again, you were free to chose your buisness partners
and for both sides it was often seen as a discrimination (for example
in Warsaw's stock market German was spoken until 1923).

  The best way to study Jewish attitude approach to the assimilation
probelm is to study the political platforms of Jewish parties
in pre-39 Poland.  I am not well prepared to go into details now
but you can believe me that they were by no means unanimous.

                                         Pawel Penczek

Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Mniejszosci
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:40:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.145120.28238@nntp.nta.no> stoer@hal.nta.no (Stoer Mechthild FNT) writes:
>Do artykula Wlodzimierza Kasprzaka o niemieckiej prasie
><BvAupy.7L9@epix.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>:
>
>Ja nie zauwazylam, ze niemieckie gazety zle pisza o Polakach.
>Ale ja nie czytam "gazet popularnych", wiec...
>Informacje o Polsce w "Frankfurter Allgemeine" i "Rheinischer Merkur"
>sa dosc rzetelne.
>
>Jakie gazety miales na mysli, piszac
>"Powazne dzienniki i politycy liczac na czytelnikow i wyborcow 
>przejmuja te ponizajace czlowieka hasla." ?
>

 Spedzilem ok. 9 miesiecy w Niemczech w ciagu ostatniego roku.
Widzialem wiele z tego, o czym napisal W.K. Jako przyklad
podam artykul o zmianach zachodzacych w Polsce, ktory ukazal
sie we Frakfurter Allgemeine jesienia ubieglego roku. 
Artykul pisany byl przez polskiego dziennikarza, ktory
wyemigrowal do Niemiec i pracowal potem dla FAZ. Sam artykul
byl w miare obiektywny. Natomiast duze zdjecie zamieszczone
w tym artykule bylo straszne. Przedstawialo dosc liczna rodzine
jadaca furmanka konna srodkiem ulicy jakiegos wiekszego miasta.
Kamienice byly z ok. poczatku 20 wieku. Furmanka ta jechala
opustoszala ulica, z tylu jechala jakas ciezarowka, wygladala
na zrobiona w latach czterdziestych. Cale zdjecie wygladalo
bardzo ponuro. Gdy je zobaczylem, od razu pomyslalem, ze
zostalo zrobione podczas 2 wojny swiatowej, czyli 50 lat temu.
I naprawde mysle, ze to bardzo mozliwe, ze zdjecie z lat
okupacji niemieckiej zostalo uzyte w FAZ do ilustracji
artykulu o Polsce dnia dzisiejszego. 

 Dla porownania: jak bys zareagowala, gdyby gazety w Polsce
publikowaly zdjecia bezdomnych i zebrzacych Niemcow
jako ilustracje obecnej sytuacji w Niemczech?

 Inny przyklad, dotyczacy wprawdzie niewielkiego, ale wg mnie
znamiennego szczegolu. W jednym z ostatnich numerow Der Spiegel
ukazal sie wywiad z Suchocka, obecnym premierem. W paru
slowach od redakcji przedstawiajacych Suchocka czytelnikom
napisano, ze ona jest za wprowadzeniem zakazu aborcji
w Polsce. Zapomniano jednak dodac, ze Suchocka oswiadczyla
zaraz po objeciu urzedu premiera, ze jej rzad nie ma nic
do powiedzenia w sprawie aborcji. Rzad z definicji tymi
sprawami sie nie zajmuje.

 W telewizji Polacy sa przedstawiani glownie jako
handlarze, cwaniacy, zlodzieje samochodow, oszusci, 
a sama Polska jest krajem bezprawia i skorumpowanym.
OK, W Polsce jest duzo problemow, ale cos tu nie tak,
skoro obrazek prezentowany przez telewizje jest
jednego koloru: czarnego. 

 Slyszalem tez od kobiety, u ktorej wynajmowalem pokoj,
ze gdy w swojej pracy powiedziala, ze wynajela pokoj
Polakowi, jej rozmowca zrobil duze oczy i nie mogl tego
zrozumiec. Dopiero, kiedy powiedzial, ze chodzi
o czlowieka z wyksztalceniem, pokiwal glowa, dajac
do zrozumienia, ze to jeszcze moze zaakceptowac. Ale
specjalnie przekonany nie byl.

 Lech Borkowski
lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu

>Matylda
>
>Mechthild.Stoer@nta.no


Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: s1137020@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Mariusz Prokopczyk)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Sprawy gospodarcze - prywatny i panstwowy
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:44:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: monu6.1992Sep27.134400.14659
Organization: Monash University College Gippsland, Churchill, 3842, Australia

In article <Bv5D02.AMK@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
pindor@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Andrzej Pindor) writes:
>It is always amazing when someone claiming to be na ardent anti-communist
>uses well tried communist method, like spreading accusations based on
>unsubstantiated rumors.

Do you mean we should never tell rumors if we have no proof?
Then the American media strangely can in perfect way use that
"well tried communist method", don't they?
I would not risk though to call them communist! :-(

>In article <1992Sep25.164445.16471@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> jjt@aristotle.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jack Tuszynski) writes:
>>Here is a who's who of Polish politics.
>>
>>Walesa
>>======
>...
>>power on behalf of Solidarity in 1989.  Walesa is considered seriously
>>compromised by the communists.  Many people now consider the accusations
>>that the Olszewski government made about Walesa being a communist agent
>>to be true.  Although the notion was preposterous at the time that the
>>accusations were made.
>>
>Mr. Tuszynski seems never to have heard one of the basic tenets of
>a democratic system: 'innocent until proven guilty'. Mr. Olszewski, even though
>a lawyer, does not adhere to this tenet either, but he made his legal career
>under the communist system, so I am prepared to excuse him.

If that is the only reason, you must have such a good hart ...

>There is no
>excuse for Mr. Tuszynski however - he grew up in a democratic country.

And he has learned that there is a freedom of speech in this country,
including repeating rumors. Have not you?

>(the rest of the posting, being of equal value as the excerpt cited above,
>is ignored).
>
>Andrzej Pindor

What a pity you did not ignore the whole posting!

Mariusz

PS. To make the matter clear. I may not share views of J. Tuszynski,
    but I would prefer the arguments against his views, not just
    plain ridiculing. It makes life harder, I know!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Definicja
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:08:07 GMT

Czytam rozne wypowiedzi, i dochodze do wniosku:

	Antysemita jest nie ten kto nienawidzi Zydow,
	ale ten kogo Zydzi nienawidza.


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