HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hubert@rs530.ncs.mainz.ibm.com (Bernhard Zeller/131000)
Subject: No a scheaner Gag
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 15:54:22 GMT
Reply-To: zeller@mazvm02.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Germany, AIX Support Germany

Nochdeam jetzt hoffendlich dia bleada Disgussion von deane Fischkepf
vrbei isch (dia solled sich do eh raushalda aus dere njusgruub), 
felld mir no a Gag vom Aeffle ond Pferdle ei:

S' Aeffle schdolberd mit 'ra Kischt Oir en dr' Hand ond fliagt no. Dobei
gangad a baar Oir he ond do moind s' Aeffle: Kennad dia Henna koine  
diggere Schala macha?

Grua vom Bernhard von dr Oschdalb (zr Zeid em Exil en Mainz)
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: pra@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de (Pedl Rau)
Subject: nomml oinr
Organization: AIFB, University of Karlsruhe (Germany)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:10:05 GMT


Schdandad boide uff'rer Brigg, sechd 's Aeffle:
"Hosch du di scho'mol uffgregd?" - "Noi" -
"Ha, des daed mi jetz abr uffrega!".


 Pedl
From: WhoKnows
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
Subject: - a.gif (0/1)
Keywords: anonymous post
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:57:18 GMT
Organization: SSS (Society for Strong Secrecy)
Originator: WhoKnows@Unknown.com


	a.gif is a uuencoded picture of 



a test
	This description and the associated part contains the uuencoded form
    of a.gif, which is a GIF {GIF87} [32x34x8p] picture.

    Instructions for extraction:
    ----------------------------
    A) Using rn/nn news reader facilities (easiest - let the news reader do
          the work! - includes automatic extraction and filesum checking):
       1) Ignore the script below - just use the 'extract' feature of your
          news reader to decode part 1 (NICE feature - unfortunately not
          available in all versions).
       2) Enjoy the resulting a.gif file!
    B) UNIX script method (next easiest - recommended for beginners and
          those interested in automatic extraction and filesum checking):
       1) Extract the shell script in part 1, removing everything before the
          "shell begin here" line, and everything after the "shell end here" 
          line (save as anow1).
       2) Execute 'sh < anow1'.  This script will do all of the
          extraction, concatenation, filesum checking, and decoding steps for
          you, detecting any errors along the way.
       3) Enjoy the resulting a.gif file!
    C) To manually edit/patch (for those familiar with these type of files
          - and/or those without UNIX!):
       1) Save everything between line pairs of the text
          "BEGIN --- CUT HERE --- Cut Here --- cut here ---"
                          ...and...
          "END --- CUT HERE --- Cut Here --- cut here ---".
       2) Concatenate the resulting file part(s) together (in order!) and
          pipe the result into uudecode.
       3) Enjoy the resulting a.gif file!

	If you have any trouble with the above, I'm sure I'll get e-mail from
    you... (but if you DON'T have trouble, I wouldn't mind hearing that,
    either!!)


	>>> Processed using xmitBin ver. 1.8 by D. Jim Howard <<<

                                    _ _ /|
                                    \'o O'
                                    =(_._)=
                                       U
                                  Thppt! Ack!
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: Multiuser Multitasking Magazine
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 08 Oct 92 17:30:42 EST

I found out that it is indeed possible to get a sample copy of
iX Multiuser Multitasking magazine.  All you have to do is send a
letter requesting a sample copy (Probeexemplar) to Verlag Heinz
Heise, Vertrieb, Helstorfer Strasse 7, 3000 Hannover 61, Germany.
Hannover is the site of the world's largest computer show each Spring,
Cebit.  I presume this is published only in German, but I'm not sure.

-------------------Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com-------------------

Is this magazine available in the US, either via subscription
or in public libraries?  Are sample copies available?
(A lot of times European computer magazine subscriptions become
very expensive when they are mailed to the US; we get Computerwoche
here and that is quite expensive-sehr teur!)  The Editor of Multiuser
Multitasking posted a RAID 7 question to this group the other day.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: thimm@russell.ira.uka.de (Georg Thimm)
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systemen in Stuttgart und Karlsruhe
Organization: Mantafahrer Anonym
	<HEIM.92Oct7143022@sally.peanuts.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:48:32 GMT

> Ond was hot des e deam kanal do vrlaura?
> heidabimbam
Warscheins hod do oiner net pfaschanda fir was de nusguup
'aeffle.und.pferdle' do isch!

Obaffle und pferdle:
S'Aeffle pfliegt ufd Nas weils ned gugt hod wos naleift.
S'Pferdle sieht sell un mus lacha. No wird aber's Aeffle kreitznaersch
und brillt: Mit vier Fiass kennt i au besser laufa! S'Pferdle ibrlegt
a weng und moint: Des glaub i et. Du daetsch nomano dobld so viel Stoiner finda
zu dribrschtolbara!
--




*****************************************************************
Georg Thimm, Schwarzwaldstr. 52, W-7128 Trossingen 1, Deutschland
E-Mail: thimm@ira.uka.de
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: heim@peanuts.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Gerald Heim)
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systemen in Stuttgart und Karlsruhe
Organization: organisiert? ich? ach was!
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:30:22


Ond was hot des e deam kanal do vrlaura?
heidabimbam
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: wunner@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Guenter Wunner)
Subject: Hoit koi Sabdscheckt...
Organization: TAT (Theoretical Astrophysics Tuebingen), U. of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:32:11 GMT


Ja, sogt amol schbenned diese Idiodn, die da schdaendig irgendwelchen
Bloedsinn ueber des iX Magazin und sonstigen Muell schreibet??? Was
had denn jetz des mit dera Njusgrup hier zu dun? Kann ma die net hier
rausschmeisse? Meinen die des is hier soc.culture.german
(sock/kaltscher/tschoermaen) oder wie?

	Lukas


        *** Lukas Wunner, Hustadtring 143, 4630 Bochum, West-Germany ***
      *** lukas@trillian.tp1.ruhr-uni-bochum.de / lukas@134.147.160.21 ***
    *** "To err is human, but to really fuck things up takes a computer" ***
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: RE: GM PROM Carriers
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:36:02 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Tuesday, Oct 13 12:35:57
X-Sequence: 2654
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


> Why not order them by mail from Chicago?  If they have a minimum, maybe
>some of the readers here would pool their funds for a few carriers.

The problem is, that when that source (Schweber Elect.) was local, I could use
the company name to do a cash pickup on the parts.  Now I'd have to go through
the parts ordering department and the parts would have to go through incoming
receiving inspection, the company billing system, etc., etc., etc.  

[Have you checked with Schweber lately?  All their competition has gone to
taking credit cards so they may have too.  If all else fails, I need to
re-establish my Schweber account so maybe we could make a group purchase
through the magazine.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" <emory!mn15-gw.mavd.honeywell.com!mellum_ron>
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Re: 4-link vs. ladder bars
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:01:04 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Oct 15 02:00:49
X-Sequence: 2657
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


 > 
> I'am looking into installing a rear subframe into my car.
> 
> The kits come with two choices ladder bars or a 4-link.
> 
I`d take the ladders any day.

> The car is primarly used for drag racing, but I do
> drive it back and fourth to the track.  I see the obvious differences
> one has 4 end links and separate bars, the other has 3 links. But what is the
> functional difference between the two.
> 
> If you have to know it's an 81' AMC Spirit with origional but  modified
> 6 cylinder,

I`m looking for a source of parts to modify a GM 250 cu in 6 banger.  Is
all I can find in most catalogs are V-8 parts.  Anybody got any ideas
where I can find any goodies?

> and chrysler 904 transmission.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Re: Hesitation problem with EFI system
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:18:29 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Oct 16 12:18:25
X-Sequence: 2663
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

> 
> I have finally gotten my FI system tuned in for descent performance.
> I cannot tune out a SEVERE lean hesitation that occurs when either power shifting
> or high RPM launches. If I pull the R's up to say 2K and dump the clutch she 
> falls on her face, the same condition occurs when shifting at anything above 3
> 3-4K.
> Damnably embarassing, not to mention hazardous to my engines health!
> Could this be a problem inherent with the MAS?
> The sensor is located about 18" away from the hat, would relocating it closer
> resolve the problem?

What type of setup are you running?  Is it a custom manifold?  What type of
controller are you running?  I'm assuming its a port system, btw.  What
type of mass airflow sensor are you using?  


-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Ride Height
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:30:02 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Sunday, Oct 11 19:29:55
X-Sequence: 2649
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


    I've been trying for the past few days to find out the proper ride
heights for my Olds.  The alignment shops around here either won't give
them to me, or they don't have them.  One shop offered to reset the 
ride height for me.  Sorry, NOT!

   If someone out there could help, I'd be very happy.

  Specs:

      1971 Olds Cutlass Supreme Convertible
      350 motor
      th-400 trans
      "heavy-duty" suspension (has thickest stabilizer offered)
      225-60-14 front tires, I know they're a little small, but....

thanks in advance!

  --> Bob        |  ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu

----------
Posted by: ""Robert A. Valentine"" <emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent>
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: GM PROM Carriers: Need Source
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Oct 12 18:43:10
X-Sequence: 2651
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

Does anybody know of a mail order source for the Robinson-Nugent PROM carrier
used by GM?  The one in particular that I'm interested in is Robinson-Nugent
part number PRC-246-E3.  The only sources in my area will only sell them to
major manufacturers.  I've tried the local rep, but they aren't too much help. 
I used to be able to get them local through work, but with the electronics
industry downturn in this area, that source has moved to Chicago.  Any help
would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ron

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" <emory!mn15-gw.mavd.honeywell.com!mellum_ron>
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Re: chevy 250 kits
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:17:28 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Oct 15 10:17:20
X-Sequence: 2659
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

> 
> I`m looking for a source of parts to modify a GM 250 cu in 6 banger.  Is
> all I can find in most catalogs are V-8 parts.  Anybody got any ideas
> where I can find any goodies?
> 
> Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
>  



PAW in california seems to list all sorts of rebuild kits for this motor.

Kits range from just pistons to everything but the block and heads.

Their number is (818)998-6000 a complete master kit with forged pistons
is less than $600.



----------
Posted by: emory!alice.union.edu!romansks (Steve Romanski)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: 6 cyl parts
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:23:20 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Oct 15 13:23:14
X-Sequence: 2660
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


I`m looking for a source of parts to modify a GM 250 cu in 6 banger.  Is
all I can find in most catalogs are V-8 parts.  Anybody got any ideas
where I can find any goodies?

clifford performance in calif sells 6 cyl perf parts.  i think they are
overpriced but they are sometimes the only source.

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Re: Ride Height
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:13:48 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Oct 12 12:13:44
X-Sequence: 2650
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

"Robert A. Valentine" typed:
>   Specs:
> 
>       1971 Olds Cutlass Supreme Convertible
>       350 motor
>       th-400 trans
> ----------
> Posted by: ""Robert A. Valentine"" <emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent>

I remember reading an article in PHR which was corroborated
by two racing-type friends of mine that in general the
TH-350 was more durable, better, etc. I remember that
the article pointed out that the output shaft of the
TH-350 was meater and less subject to shearing off just
when you least wanted it to.

What's the list wisdom on this. My Cutlass is 1 year
younger, has a TH-350, and is not convertible (without a hacksaw);
otherwise, it's the same car.


bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler)
"I'm havin trouble with the tephone cumpny, PERIOD!"

----------
Posted by: John Boteler <emory!access.digex.com!bote>
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: 4-link vs. ladder bars
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:32:32 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Wednesday, Oct 14 20:32:27
X-Sequence: 2656
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

I'am looking into installing a rear subframe into my car.

The kits come with two choices ladder bars or a 4-link.

The car is primarly used for drag racing, but I do
drive it back and fourth to the track.  I see the obvious differences
one has 4 end links and separate bars, the other has 3 links. But what is the
functional difference between the two.

If you have to know it's an 81' AMC Spirit with origional but  modified
6 cylinder, and chrysler 904 transmission.

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Steve Romanski <emory!unvax.union.edu!romansks>
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: Hesitation problem with EFI system
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 07:01:59 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Friday, Oct 16 03:01:53
X-Sequence: 2662
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

>I have finally gotten my FI system tuned in for descent performance.
>I cannot tune out a SEVERE lean hesitation that occurs when either power 
>shifting
>or high RPM launches. If I pull the R's up to say 2K and dump the clutch she 
>falls on her face, the same condition occurs when shifting at anything above 
>3-4K. Damnably embarassing, not to mention hazardous to my engines health!
>Could this be a problem inherent with the MAS?
>The sensor is located about 18" away from the hat, would relocating it closer
>resolve the problem?
>
>Probably the same problem, but, she doesn't acclerate as well as expected.
>The acceleration is somewhat ?wavey?. No jerking, just a funny fluctuation
>as I start to fly. 

>Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

Millam, I don't recall which EFI you're working with so this is kinda general.
Those two problems sure do indicate unstable airflow across the MAF sensor.
If stratification or turbulence is occuring at some throttle opening
such that the hot wire does not see the flow, leanness would result.
Could the fluctuations you feel be thought of as related to what
you'd imagine turbulence to feel like?

Best way to diagnose this is to record the MAF output signal and look
at the trend.  Do you have access to a storage scope?  Or a stripchart
recorder?  An analog voltmeter with a fast movement might even
show it.  You could get a VU meter from Radio shack and scale 
the signal with a pot.  The VU meter is very fast so it should show 
large fluctuations.

You might also look at the pulse width to the injectors.  A scope
is again handy.  If you don't have that, a laptop PC or other portable's
parallel port and a touch of code, with the injector signal, isolated
through a resistor, applied to one bit works well.  I might even
whip out the code if you're interested.  My fuel injector testing
software with tiny mods would do it.

I'm assuming that you've checked all the obvious stuff like fuel pressure.
Could it be something really kinky like a loose wire in the fuel
pump circuit momentarily  coming loose under acceleration?  That wouldn't
explain the surging but it might account for the acceleration leanness.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Yunick article
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:05:55 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Saturday, Oct 10 17:05:50
X-Sequence: 2646
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


 This month's Circle Track had an article by Smokey Yunick on his
Oriente Express stock block Indy car.  In there, he says:

        "When you have an engine making 1000 horsepower, you need
         to deliver 1000 pounds of fuel an hour.  I never got it
         done.  Frankly, looking back now, I don't believe it can
         be done.  This was moving the fuel mechanically, of course.
         Using a contemporary electric system, is an entirely
         different story."

 It's nice to see Yunick bite the big one every now and then.  Not out
of meanness - it's just that his stature in the racing world is so great
it's easy to get discouraged just thinking about trying to get where he
is.  Unless some editor got in there and munged the article, of course.

 Porsche got considerably more than 1000 horses out of their 917/30s
during the same time period using Kugelfischer mechanical injection and
turbos, and drag cars of the day were doing the same with supercharging.
Yunick doesn't mention what he was running on the Oriente Express,
though I'd lay a small bet on a Tecalemit-Jackson or customized Hilborn
system.

 From the fragmentary descriptions given in the article, it sounds like
Yunick was running into the compressor-surge problem you get with two
turbos sharing a common plenum, or he never figured the right correction
factor for upping the fuel flow with boost.  Twenty years after the
fact, it's hard to tell.
                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: 4-link vs. ladder bars
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:03:35 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Thursday, Oct 15 10:03:29
X-Sequence: 2658
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu



Begin forwarded message:

>I'am looking into installing a rear subframe into my car.

Stuff deleted.

>If you have to know it's an 81' AMC Spirit with origional but   
>modified 6 cylinder, and chrysler 904 transmission.

>Thanks in advance.

>Posted by: Steve Romanski <emory!unvax.union.edu!romansks>
 

HEY!!!!! Another AMC victim!!!!!! And I thought I was alone =8^).




----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.az.stratus.com!scol (Scott Colbath)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject:      Re: Yunick article
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 07:17:14 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Sunday, Oct 11 03:17:07
X-Sequence: 2648
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu

I am curious, i've never heard of this compressor surge problem with two
   turbochargers on a singe plenum..   i have been reading up on turbocharging
   and preparing to start on a chrysler bigblock turbo motor...
   i'm only going to use a single large turbo due to the fact that
   i rather like the idea of a touch of lag in the system..
    its a wild enuf ride as it is....
anyhow, if someone would be willing to share their expertise on the subject of
turbocharging, i for one would be very willing to listen...



                                                           G.p.

----------
Posted by: "G. Peterson" <emory!WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU!97578579>
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Emissions Problems on 1978 Ford T-Bird
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:45:07 GMT
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Oct 12 22:44:36
X-Sequence: 2652
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu


-> I used to be able to get them local through work, but with the
-> electronics industry downturn in this area, that source has moved to
-> Chicago.  Any help would be appreciated.

 Why not order them by mail from Chicago?  If they have a minimum, maybe
some of the readers here would pool their funds for a few carriers.

 Q: Is there a standard number for the Ford chip carriers, and where
could I get some of those?
            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)