HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Any comments about closing on the new house!
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:10:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866

In article <1992Aug28.130754.5680@citib.com> flongo@seles (Frank Longo) writes:
>parikh@parikh.austin.ibm.com writes:
>: Hi,
>:      I will be closing on my new house soon.  I am not bringing  
>: lawyer to the closing, because, as I heard, it does not worth it.
>
>I strongly advise you to hire a lawyer. I don't know who told you
>that it's not worth it ( probably your broker ), but considering
>that this is probably the single most important purchase/investment
>of your life, the several hundred dollar fee that a lawyer will
>charge you is definitely worth it.

I think your geographical location may influence whether to use a
lawyer or not.  I grew up in the East; bought my first home here.
Then, when I relocated to Nebraska, I mentioned the need for a lawyer
to the real estate broker.  She said well, yes, you could bring a
lawyer, but nobody ever does that.  The bank handling the mortgage
provides all the legal services (search title, etc).  Well, I took her
advice, paid $30 to the bank for legal services, and that was that.

It's a different way of life out there (I'm back East).  Nobody sues,
etc. it seems.  The mid-West folk are just not as contentious as us
Eastern sophisticates.  I guess most lawyers stick to the coasts.



-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: State Bond Fund
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 21:11:06 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng) writes:

> 
> In article <7785@public.BTR.COM>, timlee@public.btr.com writes:
> >1.  Credit risk.  The risk that some issuers will default on the
> >bonds.  Single state municipal funds may be considered slightly
> >riskier than multistate municipal funds of similar credit quality,
> >because of the possibility of a regional or statewide disaster.
> 
> How does a government body (state, county or city) default on
> bonds?  Couldn't the bond holder(s) just take over the government
> properties (cars, buildings, ...) and sell them to recover the
> bond value?  Or can a government body be a deadbeat and there is
> nothing anyone can do legally?

In order:

  Easily. They just quit paying the interest, like anyone else.
  Right; try going and taking the police cars, judges chairs, etc...
  Effectively, there's not a whole lot. Practically, if the body
        ever wants to borrow money again, they'll have to end up
        paying *something* back. 

Both the City of New York and the Washington State Power Project (or
something like that--a big nuclear plant project) defaulted. I think
the WSPP bondholders got something like 25-30% of their money back.

California is on the edge of defaulting, and it looks like CoNY is
trying their damndest to do an encore. 

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhc@m2lll.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: Bankers Trust scandal; Was Re: Fidelity Growth Co. Fund
Reply-To: jhc@m2lll.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:21:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.200137.6421@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> tony2@prefect.uucp (21131-gozdz) writes:

>>market+economic forecasts.  Consider also the faith that one must put
>>into GAAP, accountants, etc., which faith seems often misplaced
>>(consider the developing Banker's Trust scandal).

>Haven't had time to read newspapers this week;
>what Bankers Trust scandal? (they administer my 401(k)

Announced in the latest issue of either Forbes or Fortune.  Forbes I
think.  ROUGHLY....  Currency investments are valued in two different
ways.  A few years ago, Krieger valued his investments at one figure,
and BT used that figure in its annual report without waiting for the
other valuation.  The second valuation came in $80,000,000 lower; and,
as I recall, it is this second, independent valuation that banks use.
Well, BT and its auditor had already used the initial figure and did
not want to face the embarrassment of making a change, which would have
resulted in a loss.  So, they decided to devalue the currency
investments but to make up for the devaluation by taking the money from
a slush fund.  Well, there is not supposed to be a slush fund, and this
one could no longer be disguised.  The auditor went along.  Now, let's
see, they had to get some Fed agency to accept inaccurate currency
reports, but the Fed ultimately did not go along.  SEC seems to have
been a little lax in all of this.  Forbes or Fortune claims first
publication, so no idea what this will turn into.  I believe that the
original events are from '88 or '89.  It was just before Krieger left.

One conclusion: GAAP and an auditor's signature don't provide much of a
guarantee.  And GAAP is too flexible to start with.

I believe that the magazine had an entire article on BT in addition to
the expose of the fraudulent accounting.

--Jim
From: fierro@uts.amdahl.com (Doug Fierro)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Re: Nikki (up or down?)
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:21:04 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <BtpD5x.Jzz@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070km6q@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:
>roh@CS.ColoState.EDU (Lucas Roh) writes...
>
>>I think we first need to honestly come to term with the fact that Columbus DID
>>NOT discover America!  It's just so stupid and such Eurocentric view.
>>People were living here!  Geez. 
>
>Get real.  The Europeans did not know America was here, and Columbus found it
>for them.  Ergo, he discovered it.  The question is for whom did he discover it.
>Certainly not the previous inhabitants, but for your and my ancestors, he
>certainly did.

  Gee, I thought Mr. Vespucci was the man who 'discovered' America ... :-)

  Doug

-- 
                                                     Doug Fierro
                                      |\             UTS System Software
  O                         __________|_\______      CASE tools development
  \_.______________________| * * * * * * * * */      fierro@uts.amdahl.com
 __\____                   |=================/       (408)746-7102
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: shelly@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sheldon Kay)
Subject: Any info in Easel Co. ?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:03:37 GMT

Anybody out there know anything about Easel Co. (Small Software Co whose 
earnings have improved nicely in recent years)
      
            _
        |  / \  |
        | /___\ |
        |/ ___ \|   
        | /     |
        | \___  |
        |     \ |
        |  ___/ |

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Charles Givens Organization
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:29:55 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Aug27.174746.7368@news.cs.brandeis.edu> topgun@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Chandra Bajpai) writes:
>
>The Wall St. Journal ran a front page article about a year ago on how
>Mr. Givens was a fraud,or at least what he claims is not true.
>

Maybe so, but have you seen his book "More Wealth Without Risks"
published in 1991? It's excellent. Since it duplicates much of what
is taught in the CGO, you can benefit from the Givens' strategies
without making the financial commitment of becoming a member.

Givens is not a fraud. Furthermore, since most Americans live from
paycheck to paycheck, and retire flat broke, we need more people like
Givens to show us a better way. Givens not only teaches you, he also
motivates you.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: vahe@nexus.yorku.ca (Vahe Ohan)
Subject: Options Question....
Keywords: Options
Organization: York University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 13:51:43 GMT

  I was wondering when is the best time to exercise your option ?? Could
 some one give me an example with numbers indicating which one is better,
 exercising the option that you own or disposing it as a contract before
 the expiration date....

   Thanks in advance

   vahe@nexus.yorku.ca

   
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Closed End Funds
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:06:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.145153.5453@cbfsb.cb.att.com> klur@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.s.klur) writes:
>I'm thinking about purchasing some closed end mutual funds (equity)
>which are selling at a discount, and then "hoping" that the
>discount will be reduced (i.e., the price will rise).  Anyone have

It seems to be a property of closed end funds that they trade at a
discount to NAV.  If the price rises it is probably because the NAV
rises.  Some funds, utility funds for example, are also interest
sensitive and will rise when interest rates go down.

More important than hoping for a magic rise in the price, is to buy
a fund because you believe it is a good fund and its NAV will rise.

The Forbes annual mutual fund issue is out -- if you can still find
a copy (try the library if you don't have it already).


>experience in this?  Are shares of closed end mutual funds traded
>on the NYSE and AMEX like other stocks?

Yup..  Which gives you the opportunity to pay commissions on both
buy and sell.  Something you avoid with no-load open end funds,
although there are annual management fees for those funds.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: mahoney@cs.utexas.edu (J. Jeff Mahoney)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: INTELLICORP--What's up with this company?
Date: 31 Aug 1992 15:37:05 -0500
Organization: Just Do It Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.cs.utexas.edu


     Anybody have any info on the California-based company
Intellicorp?  (NASDAQ INAI).  About 5 years ago, their stock
was trading around 30, but I just saw that it is now trading
at 0.75 (75 cents).  Is now a good time to buy, or is this
company about to go belly up?  I believe that they work in
Expert-System development.


-- 
*** jeff mahoney   e-mail: mahoney@cs.utexas.edu   compuserve: 70243,3525  ***
** Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, Taylor Hall 2.124,  UT Austin 78712  **
**       Voice: (512)471-9589        Answering Machine: (512)389-1349       **
*** - I'd rather be doing aerobics, playing golf, country-western dancing  ***
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: judy@evolving.com (Judy Bettinger)
Subject: Re: Amway (Yeah, I know...)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 18:54:34 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
Followup-To: alt.business.multi-level

Kevin Moore writes:

....
>seems to take a fairly aggressive person to do it. Amway folks no longer
>are into making sales as much as they are into duplication. The idea is
>generally to duplicate yourself by convincing a few other people to buy
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
			  kind of like an amoeba? :-)

>The advantage of Amway products is that they are as good or better than
>off the shelf products, 

really?  That's not what I've read in Consumer Reports.  In fact, a
couple of issues ago, they rated Amway as being far _less_ good than
average, and far _more_expensive.  

>Once you leave the Amway product line (generally household products), 
>you will find the prices become much less competitive. 

Not true the one time I was forced to price Amway.  Which also jives
with the price per unit in the CR article.  Now, I know that CR is
certainly not the ultimate authority, but I have found that many of
their reports on household products are consistent with my own 
experience.

I don't think Amway drivel belongs in misc.invest. Note the new followup line.

-- 
Judy Bettinger (judy@evolving.com)            < |/
Evolving Systems, Inc.                         :o<)
Denver, Colorado                              < |\
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Reverse Stock Split
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:46:23 GMT

In article <8190103@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss) writes:
>
>A penny stock (<$1) or low priced stock will do this to get more respect and

Alas, inflation has struck.


Australia gets rid of the penny.  Canada, stops printing $1 bills.   And
penny stocks are those under $5.00.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Chinese Currency (Was: Re: Long-term direction of the dollar)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:12:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.152331.11593@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>The XSSR, Israel, the mideast
>OPEC countries to name a few are dollar based economies because there is no
>confidence in their own currencies.  China would be too if the influx of
>dollars was not tightly controlled. 

I doubt that, for two reasons.

First of all, there doesn't seem to be a major lack of confidence in
the Renminbi.  The exchange rate on the black market is only slightly
higher than the official exchange rate.  (Black market rate is
6-7RMB=$1 and official rate is about 5.5RMB=$1).  Also the exchange
rate for RMB in commerical transactions is set by "swap center"
exchanges instead of by the government, and these "gray market"
exchange rates match the "black market" exchange rates closely.

In any case, there's been no sign of a "meltdown" in RMB like there
has been in Russian currency.  In fact, the Chinese economy seems to
be doing quite well.

Second, if there were a major lack of confidence in the RMB, the
currency that Chinese would likely turn to would be the Hong Kong
Dollar or the New Taiwan Dollar.  Both of these flow rather freely in
South China.

Organization: Masters student, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:33:05 -0400 
From: "Peter B. Behrens" <pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dougherty's Money Market Fund Review ...

Excerpts from netnews.misc.invest: 26-Aug-92 Dougherty's Money Market
Fu.. by Christophe Pettus@talige 
>... or words to that effect.  I've had the publication named in the
>Subject: line recommended to me; does anyone have a contact of
>subscription address?

Donoghue's$ Moneyletter is published by:
IBC/Donoghue, Inc. 
290 Eliot Street, Box 91004
Ashland, MA 01721-9104
508/881-2800

They probably also have an 800 number for subscriptions.  Try 800
information (800/555-1212).

I am fairly satisfied with the advice they give, especially for short
term buy/sell decisions and portfolio allocation.  They appear to use a
model that is dominated by relative strenght and momentum indicators
which sometimes puts them at odds with other newsletters I read that are
more long term in outlook.
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 29 Aug 92 15:11 PDT
Subject: Re: German Fund
Nf-ID: #R:BtpL20.B7A@usenet.ucs.indiana.ed:1311904481:cdp:1426500251:000:668
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Aug 29 15:11:00 1992


|>According to a recent (April 1992) chart of American no-load funds
|>investing internationally, only five of 25 invested more than 10%
|
|Can you give us the source on this?  Sounds very useful.  Thanks.  --Jim

Sure can.  It was in the most recent newsletter of AAII. BTW, I hereby
humbly retract a statement I made to this group about a year ago to the
effect I was not about to renew my subscription to AAII.  Subsequently
I have found their publications most useful.  The afore-mentioned chart
is an example.  DMcKenzie.

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401k Rollover Legality Question
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 20:20:07 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey) writes:

> Better get some real advise from a prof. regarding this.  The 401k rollover
> stuff was recently changed, and I'm not sure when it goes/went into
> effect.  That advise could be very cheap compared to penalties!

The mandatory witholding of distributions goes into effect Jan 1, 1993.

Gary Heston, at home...
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: jcyu@barney.esl.com (Jeff Yu)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: list [and Performance] of [no-load] mutual funds?
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:18:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ESL Inc., Sunnyvale, CA

Tony,
> 
>                         [stuff deleted]
> 
> Here it goes: a list of no-load funds of various types, and their performance
> for all of 1991 (4th column) and 1992 (last):
>                                         --T.
> 
>           NOLOAD   Family               all 1992         1/1/92-8/28/92
>  No Symbl          Fund Name              Gain  SD  %ile SubR 
> --- ----- ------------------------------- ---- ---- ---- ---- 
>   1 LOMCX CGM Capital Development        102.1  7.5   1  -7.3 
>
>                         [stuff deleted]
>
I'm afraid I don't quite understand your last four columns.  Is "all 1992
Gain" actually 1991 total return?  What are SD and SubR?  What measure
does the percentile ranking reflect?  I was also wondering where you
got this information.  

Thanks for your help -- the list looks like it will be useful after I figure
out everything.




-- 
Jeff Yu					Advanced Systems Laboratory
jeff_yu@smtp.esl.com			ESL Inc.
"The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of anyone at all."
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:33:13 EDT
From: <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: **Wang Lab. stock any hope?**

Hello,
I am seeking opinions from people on how good an investment in Wang Lab
 stock would be.  I realize the company is in chapter 11 bankruptcy but is
 the company a total lost cause?  Is there any chance they can re-group and
 come out of this ok?  Could this stock be a diamond in the rough??
Thanks.
From: jchen@smdsctt.bellcore.com (C. Jason Chen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: **Wang Lab. stock any hope?**
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:57:52 GMT
Reply-To: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
Organization: Bell Communications Research

In article <16854BF53.M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org>, M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk) writes:

|>  
|>   I asked this same question the day that Wang filed Chapter 11.  For all of
|> you who wondered what the responses from the net might be, the above reply
|> just about sums it up: 'Don't know, could work, might not.'
|>   AND, had I bought the stock when it hit bottom (say, 1000 shares, at least,
|> to lessen the bite of the broker's commission), I would have made a profit
|> speculating over the course of a few days.
|>  

In the world of playing stock market, never ask for a collective wisdom.

-- 

C. Jason Chen                 
**************E-Mail: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
**************V-Mail: (908)699-6993
**************P-Mail: 444 Hoes Lane, 1E229, Piscataway, NJ
Newsgroups: misc.invest,rec.autos
From: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Subject: Re: sales tax rebate?
Reply-To: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 19:48:29 GMT

You guys in the U.S have NO idea of what high taxes are. NO IDEA.
Wanna see a population that is even more fed up with taxes than you AND
has an unemployment rate almost twice the U.S's?  Sound like some third world 
country. 

Good guess.  Actually it's the country the UN voted best country in the world 
a couple months ago.  The answer...

Canada.

my 2c (cdn)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhc@m2lll.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: 401k Rollover Legality Question
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:13:02 GMT

In article <BtyqpJ.FC3@apollo.hp.com> saz@apollo.HP.COM writes:

>If you have an IRA that was funded with after tax dollars, you don't
>want to mix your 401K pre-tax dollars with it.  Otherwise, I believe
>uncle SAM taxes you again on the after-tax dollars when you finally
>cash out at age 59.5 or so.

Can you give a reference on this?  Good book to read, something of that
sort?  I asked salespeople at Fidelity before I moved some money, and
they could not think of any reason not to put them together.  I'm sure
that I can't split them apart now, but then I have managed to get only
10% so far out of one 403b manager.

Thanks.  --Jim
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: State Bond Fund
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:32:55 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <8kmcqB2w161w@cdthq.UUCP> gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
>
>Both the City of New York and the Washington State Power Project (or
>something like that--a big nuclear plant project) defaulted. I think
>the WSPP bondholders got something like 25-30% of their money back.
>

	I believe the WPS (Woops) bonds were issued by an electric utility
company -- Washington Power Systems or something like that.  They were not
issued by the state of Washington.  Also the bondholders had to wait for
several years (litigation) before they got anything back.  Nasty business.

Regards,
tony
From: johna@psdcae1.gvg.tek.com (John Abt)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401k Rollover Legality Question
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:56:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5112
Distribution: na
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

I am totally confused about this 401k thing. Is there
a good reference somewhere that explains it?

It sounds like you can, if you leave your job, transfer
your funds directly to a "legit" 401k/IRA account.

Can you then pull the money out without the 20%
withholding? (And pay the 10% penalty/income tax
the next April 15.)

If you can, isn't this kind of stupid?

If you can't, why is this rule always in the context
of employment termination?

John Abt
From: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Mathews Homequest/Camnet?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:52:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UW-Milwaukee Computing Services Division
Originator: dave@opus.csd.uwm.edu


Anyone know anything about a brokerage named Mathew's Homequest
and also about Camnet, supposedly a player in breaking up the
Bell Canada monopoly, run by Jack Oaken
who also started MCI here?
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jhc@m2lll.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: Fidelity Growth Co. Fund
Keywords: GET OUT???
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:36:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.203402.14787@b11.b11.ingr.com> james@brock.b17b.ingr.com (James Brock) writes:

>I've been told to get my money out of Fidelity's Growth Co. Fund for at
>least the next year (something about overvalued stock holdings).

Subscribe to the newsletter Fidelity Monitor: 800-397-3094.  It's $96 a
year.  Tell them that I sent you.

For a very quick evaluation of Fidelity Monitor, see the end of
Hulbert's column in August Forbes ("Wallstreet Irregular").

Fidelity Monitor switched out of Growth Co. into Contrafund on
3/30/92.  Over the subsequent three months, Growth Co. was -7.1%, while
Contrafund was only -0.6%.  The portfolio holding Contrafund was +0.6%.

Growth Co. is currently rated Hold, but, as Hulbert says, why hold one
fund when others are rated Buy?

If you are investing in Fidelity funds, you should at least call and
get a sample copy.  The $96 may seem expensive, but then you would have
saved that much over the three months by switching from Growth to
Contrafund.

--Jim
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate