From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Subject: Re: Jesus is a Prophet, not Son of God
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:43:45 GMT

In article <74696@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|> In article <92316.132744RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com writes:
|> |In response to Richard Pitts on what does the Qur'an say about Jesus:
|> 
|> I didn't ask where are they different.  The Quran gives evidence that 
|> Jesus is different than all other people - that he was born of a virgin
|> and was himself sinless.
|> 

It also says:
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(3:59)"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He
created him from dust, then said to him: "be": and he was."

Secondly all prophets are looked upon as sinless, not only Jesus (pbuh) 
in Islam.....

|> 
|> Contrary???  Only if the Holy Spirit didn't come and the coming comforter
|> was to be Ahamd.  However, the holy spirit did come and it is not Ahamd.

But the holy spirit was there all the time....

(John 16:7)"However, I am telling you nothing but the truth when
I say it is profitable for you that I go away. Because if I do not
go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go away, I
will send Him to you."

You see. how could Jesus (pbuh) send something to the world which always 
has been there even before Jesus (pbuh)?
When Jesus(pbuh) sent out his disciples in their mission of preaching
and healing people whith what did they according to Christianity heal
people with?
The Holy Spirit (the holy Ghost).

And John the Babtist when he was in his mothers womb he also had the
holy Spirit (Ghost), if you remember.
Before Jesus (pbuh) departed he called his disciples and told them :
recieve ye the holy Spirit.
So when he said recieve, either they recieved or he was bluffing.
So either Jesus (pbuh) is a lier or else they recieved.

"...Because if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you;
but if I go away, I will send Him to you."

So Jesus (pbuh) has to *GO AWAY* if he should come. Otherwise he wont
come.
But the Holy Ghost was there whith them all the time, and they rec-
ieved "him/her" when Jesus (pbuh) was there *WITH THEM*. He didn't have
to *GO AWAY* first so that he could be able to *SEND* "him/her" to them.

Disciples               John 20:21-22
John the Baptist        Luke 1:15
Elizabeth               Luke 1:41
Zacharias               Luke 1:67
Simeon                  Luke 2:26
Jesus                   Luke 3:22

So how can the holy spirit be the comforter when Jesus (pbuh) is reported
to have claimed that he has to go away before the comforter can come???

It must be referring to someone else....
Propably the *prophet*.....

John:(1:19-21)"And this is the testimony of John when the Jews sent Priests
and Levites to him from Jerusalem to ask him who are you?
He confessed and did not try to conceal it, but acknowledged, I am not
the Christ! They asked him. What then? Are you Elijah? And he said, I am not!
Are you the Prophet? And he answered, No!"

These verses show that the Jews where expecting three different personalites:
1. Christ, the Messiah (=Jesus, pbuh).
2. Elijah (= John the babtist, pbuh, according to Jesus(pbuh) own words).
3. The Prophet (=?).

In Christianity you are told that the Messiah and the Prophet is the same
person.
But is that true?
According to us Muslims it isn't.
There were *THREE* questions regarding *THREE* different persons, therefore we
have to draw the conclusion that the Jews were waiting on *THREE* persons.

|> 
|> |            What was the fate of Jesus vis-a-vis the so-called crucifixion?
|> |            The Qur'an admonishes those who say that Jesus died or was
|> |            crucified:
|> |                      "They slew him (Jesus) not, nor crucified him, but it
|> |                       appeared so unto them; and behold| those who disagree
|> 
|> What does this mean "it appeared so"?
|> 

:-).....
It means: It didn't happen!!!!!!!

|> 
|> Maybe you have it confused?  Maybe Jesus' resurrection is what you
|> are referring to.  He did die and rose from the dead - this could lead
|> people to think that he never died, but those who were there tell us
|> that he did.  Does the Quran agree that Jesus was nailed to the cross -
|> it is hard to tell from the above passage.
|> 
|> |            Muslims maintain that the virgin birth of Jesus without a father
|> |            was not any more supernatural than the creation of Adam, who
|> |            neither had a father nor a mother:
|> 
|> BUT IT IS DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER BIRTH.  Why would the next to last
|> prophet in Islam be born this way? 

Why not???
If it was in the will of God He could make thousands of small christs with 
miracolous births....
It is actually nothing special with it.....

Jesus (pbuh) was born without a father... So what???? God is the Greatest..
He does whatever He wants.....

|> 
|> |               "Behold| The likeness of Jesus before God is the likeness of
|> |                Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him, "Be" (kun)
|> |                and he was." (Qur'an 3:59)
|> |
|> |                "..... , and the Christians say: The messiah is the son of God.
|> |
|> |                 That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the
|> |                 saying of those who disbelieved of old. God (Himself) opposes
|> |                 them. How perverse are they|" (Qur'an 9:30)
|> |
|> |                "The messiah, son of Maryam, was no other than a messenger,
|> |                 messengers (the like of whom) had passed before him. And his
|> |                 mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat(earthly)
|> |                 food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see
|> |                 in what ways they are turned away." (Qur'an 5:78)
|> 
|> Is this saying Jesus and his mother turned away from the Lord?
|> 

No.... 

|> |     "Therefore, woe be unto those who write the scripture with their hands and
|> |then say "This is from Allah", that they may purchase a small gain therewith.
|> |Woe unto them for that what their hands  have written, and woe unto them for
|> |that they earn thereby." (Qur'an 2:79)
|> 
|> How do you get this speaks about the NT?  We sure don't claim it is from
|> Allah, but Jehovah - THE LORD ALMIGHTY.  Maybe this admonition is for
|> those who wrote something else.  

:-)...
There is only one God, right???
So what is the difference if you call this god Allah or Jehovah????

The admonition is for those who believe in the one *true* God, the God of Abraham,
Moses, Jesus, Muhammed and all the prophets that have been sent by Him (pbuta).

|> 
|> For Christ and His Kingdom,
|> Richard Pitts

For the one and *only* God, the God of Abraham and *His* Kingdom,

Gani Skepi
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism