HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: KM vitamins
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:42:54 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

George B. Clark (georgec@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
: Gary, the lady appears to be talking about the product line sold by
: Matol-KM Botanical International,

I apologize.  It sounds like you DO have some familiarity about what
you were saying, although I will say I wouldn't have guessed it from
your first post.

I disagree (strongly) with your comments about "pyramid sales"; there is
no reason why word-of-mouth low-volume sales has to be inherently more
expensive than massive retailing.  The volume per "sales person" really
has nothing to do with it.  Multi-level companies are set up such that
a person's "upline" gets a percentage of all sales, and many people will
say that's why prices are "so high".  Those people are usually ignoring
the very significant savings provided by the MLM word-of-mouth method:
no advertising costs, no distribution costs, no middlemen.  Often MLM
products are priced similarly to, or lower than, comparable retail products.
It's sort of hard to compare something like Km, since I don't know of
any similar retail-sold product, but I can quote other examples of products
sold through MLM that are a very good bargain.

Gary
From: john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: CD player's laser went out
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:13:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Green Hills and Cows

In article <1992Oct12.185526.8913@sequent.com> jimh@sequent.com (Jim Harrie) writes:

>and the repairman said that 4 years is the normal life expectancy of
>the laser unit. From the beginning it slowly gets weaker until it
>finally goes out and all CD players, cheap and expensive, have the
>same problem. 

The life of the laser diode is expressed in hours of "on time". It is
impossible to predict how much actual use a CD player will get per
year, so the figure of "4 years normal life expectancy" is completely
meaningless. And even though your CD player may be switched on, the
laser diode is only powered up during actual play, pause, when
searching, or when reading the directory.

A meaningful figure I heard once was 5-10K hours life expectancy. Of
course, your mileage may vary.
-- 
 John Higdon  |   P. O. Box 7648   |   +1 408 264 4115     |       FAX:
 john@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | 10288 0 700 FOR-A-MOO | +1 408 264 4407
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: gwn@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (gary.w.novak)
Subject: College Financial Aid Services
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:53:51 GMT


:r college
Dear Netters,

My son will be going away to college next year and I'm looking for ways to
pay for the tuition.  I have been approached by College Financial Aid
Services who claim they can reduce tuition legally.  They also claim that
they are often confused with College Financial Aid Service who they claim
is unreputable.

I would like to know of your experiences with both services.  Were they
useful in fulfilling your financial needs?  What types of costs must one
pay to use their services?  What are the drawbacks of using such a
service as opposed to going out and finding financial aid on your own?

Please respond to me via e-mail or through this news group.

GaryMy son is going to college next year and I have hounded by an organization
claiming to be able to legally reduce college tuition.  The name of the 
outfit is College Financial Aid Services.  This is as opposed to the College         
 Financial Service.  I would like toa know your experience with them, how useful
were they in fullfilling your needs?
experience with them and were they useful? 
 
Gary W. Novak
AT&T Bell Laboratories 
Naperville, Il 60566 
..ihlnp4!ihlpy!gwn
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Allen & Ass.
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:13:52 GMT
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 5EBE@deneva.sdd.trw.com, shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True) writes:
>In article <4176@novavax.UUCP> vaccaro@novavax.UUCP (N. Trafford
>  Vaccaro) writes:
>
>>I tried Source EDP,
>>but *CHOKE* I didn't have at least 1 yr experience PROGRAMMING 
>>professionally (whatever THAT means), therefore I was not
>>qualified for an entry-level programming position...
>
>I'm sure that you won't be happy to hear this, but headhunters are not
>in the business of placing people without experience. 
>
>Any recruiter (aka
>headhunter) who claims that they'll represent you (the inexperienced
>new or recent grad) is about to take advantage of you.

Lynda, did you even read the rest of the paragraph?

The guy has a AA, BS, and MS, and 7 *years* of sysadmin and computer ops
experience.  If I was a S/W manager, and this guy was willing to work
for entry-level pay, I'd jump on him (figuratively speaking, of
course)!  My bet is he will come on line faster, and be more
productive, than any "programmer" with only one year's experience under
her belt.

This is the problem with most headhunters, and most personnel people in
companies, for that matter:  they usually know next to nothing about
the work of the people they are placing/hiring.  So what do they do?
They run down the laundry list of skills the hiring manager thinks she
wants, compares it to a resume, and rejects all non-matches out of
hand.  Valuable people with easily transferable skills are never even
considered, to the detriment of both the individual and the company.

In hard economic times, the problem is aggrevated.  Companies see lots
of out of work programmers, so they not only specify "two years of C
programming," but, "two years of programming yellow widgets with blue
spots, using C."  People with a career of programming brown widgets
with purple spots in Pascal never make it past the personnel office or
through the headhunter, when they may be just the thing the company
needs.

This is why I always find an engineer in a company, and get the hiring
manager's name from them.  I send a resume directly to the hiring
manager, with a copy to personnel (as a courtesy, and not to tick them
off).  If the job description is not a perfect match, I explain to the
manager how it is essentially similar to experience I do have, and how
I could quickly adapt.  She can evaluate that for what it's worth, the
personnel dept. will evaluate it as a non-match grasping at straws.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:17574 alt.politics.elections:15602
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Cable Bill Rip-off
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:41:03 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:


>In article <adams.718479079@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>byrd@lucerne.rice.edu (Marc J Byrd) writes:
>>
>>>I think if I ran a cable company, I would stop carrying the networks, and
>>>let people put in antennea to pick them up.
>>
>>My idea, exactly.  Only you can't do this under this new law.  The cable
>>companies are covered by a 'must carry' regulation.  Turner has already
>>filed suit.
>>
>>That's the problem with this bill:
>>
>>1) Cable companies are REQUIRED to carry the network stations
>>
>>2) Cable companies are REQUIRED to pay the networks
>
>HUH??? I thought it was an either/or thing. Either the cable companies
>rebroadcast the over-the-air stations and pay, or they don't carry the
>ota stations at all. It was the OLD cable law which required cable
>companies to carry the local stations.
>
>>The House and Senate are out of their minds.
>
>A summary of the bill was posted here recently. Anybody save it? I think
>it should be reposted lest we start arguing over things which the law
>may not even say.
>

It has been pointed out to me that my understanding was wrong.  That'll
teach me to rely on the Chicago Tribune and the TV news...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: markv@hplsla.hp.com (Mark Veatch)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:33:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Renting a small truck ....
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers

ttest@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jane and John Doe) writes:
>Prices seem to vary like anything... after calling a few companies, I
>have the following quotes... are these reasonable?  U-haul quote seems
>especially out of normal range.

A relative who works for a large rental company told me that prices 
in the rental truck industry are strongly driven by supply and demand.  
I.e. renting a Uhaul truck to go from a place w/too many Uhaul trucks to 
go to a place with not enough Uhaul trucks is much cheaper than the other 
way around.  This seems to happen on a company-wide basis, rather than a 
market-wide one, as one might expect.  They use it as a form of inventory
control.  Spreads in price of more than 4x between distant cities
*from the same company* are not unheard of.

If the supply/demand spread between any two areas grows big enough, a
rental company will pay people to drive empty trucks to the area with
a short supply.

	%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
	% Mark Veatch                Lake Stevens Instrument Division %
	% Hewlett Packard Company                 Everett, Washington %
	%                      markv@lsid.hp.com                      %
	%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Futons-do they last?
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:11:59 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) wrote: 
->2. They get matted after a few months or so.  When this happens to yours,
->take it outside and beat it up with a stick to fluff it out.

this is important ... if you don't do this then your futon will go
flat and hard (re-reading that, i think this could be a good thing :>)

->4. They feel different.  Whether they feel better is a matter of taste.

just like mattresses.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: bgf@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (billy.g.fuller)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: More on Airline Antitrust Refunds
Summary: Finally got my package in the mail
Keywords: Airlines, Antitrust, Litigation
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:12:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Folks:

	You may recall that I posted the address to get the refund
package in the mail for the Airlines Antitrust Litigation a couple of
months ago.  Well, I finally got my package in the mail from them a
couple of days ago.  

	There are three forms that you may fill out (A, B, and C).
A is for claims for airtravel under $2500, B is for claims over $2500,
and C is for larger claims, I believe.  Anyway, I expect that most people,
unless you run a large business, will opt for form A.  Depending on the
number of people who respond, you will receive $100 or less in flight
coupons which are interchangable on several airlines.  If a lot of people
respond, you will receive less than $100.  The form is very short (at
least for form A) and easy to fill out, and is on a postage-paid reply
postcard.  

	The accompanying explanation is rather complicated, but the
jest of it is that you give up your right to sue the airlines if you
take part in the litigation.  However, I doubt that most people will go
through the time and trouble to hire a lawyer for the overcharges.

	One more thing, you can only use the coupons for up to 10% off
airtravel (i.e. if you have a ticket that cost $250, you may use a maximum
of $25 in flight coupons).  So, don't count on using your certificates
all at once.

	The address, for those who missed it, is:

Airlines AntiTrust Lititagion
P.O. Box 267
Tennsauken, NJ 08110

	Be sure that you have proof to back up that you took the
flights you are claiming; the letter warns that your claim is subject
to audit.


						Bill Fuller
						att!mtqua!bgf

						AT&T Bell Laboratories
From: paula@uupms.UUCP (Paula Stockholm)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: How do I handle Phone harassment?
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:44:16 GMT
Reply-To: paula@nlbbs
Distribution: world
Organization: The Electronics Workbench


In article <1992Oct12.211949.21237@informix.com> neilw@informix.com writes:

 > 
 > In article <1992Oct11.152712.4956@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. >  Clark) writes:
 > >In article <cT2gsB5w165w@pcsnode.uucp> bazelmans@pcsnode.uucp (Rudy Bazelmans) >  writes:
 > >>
 > >>Simply report them to the phone company.  They will handle it.

>       My experience is from a few years ago. I contacted NYNEX (New England
        Tel). They did require a bit of patience (a few weeks) and some
        paperwork.

I documented the nature and frequency of the calls. I a couple weeks
someone from the Telco called, said the equipment was installed and gave
me instructions.  This was an old Panel Dial system so what it did was
make it impossible for the caller to hang-up. I would contact the Telco
for a trace.

        As it was explained to me; 1st call -> a warning from the phone
        company. A second call from the same number would result in a
        police report being filed. It would be up to the police
        thereafter.

I was _almost_ disappointed when the caller(s) smartened-up after the
warning. And that the Telco would not tell me who it was.

                                                -Paula
From: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Summary:<<CAR RENTAL INSURANCE>>
Keywords: credit cards, rental insurance
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:47:19 GMT
Reply-To: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - Chicago Div.

In article <1992Oct16.120420@IASTATE.EDU> venu@IASTATE.EDU (Venu M Padakanti) writes:
>1) AMERICAN EXPRESS:
>    a) Covers for 15 days only.
>    b) Excludes some expensive cars  trucks, Motor bikes etc.
>    c) Covers the Collision Damage portion only.
>    d) Only for cars rented in the Continental United States.
>	  {I checked the info for their basic Green card and looks like they 
>	   have similar privileges with their other cards.}


I  know that   the platinum card   covers  you anywhere in  the world.
Outside the US it's primary insurance (though I think it is still only
collision damage) ...   Don't  know about the  gold card.  Actually, I
thought I heard recently that had  amex  dropped the insurance  on the
green card...
		reb
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: lenivch@maclaurin.mit.edu (Witold Biedrzycki)
Subject: Re: Citishopper..anyone? anyone?
Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics, Cambridge, MA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 13:20:21 GMT

In article <7265@transfer.stratus.com> savoia@sw.stratus.com (Rick Savoia) writes:
>
>
>Citibank keeps calling and bugging me to join this
>neat little feature of theirs.  Apparently you
>are supposed to get some great deals through
>the Citishopper program.  Well, I signed up
>for their $1 30 day trial membership and I haven't
>seen too many great deals.  Does anyone out there
>actually use this and is it worth it?  To give you
>an example of what I mean:
>
>A Sony CPDC-325 5 disc CD player:  
>
>Lechmere price:  $220.
>Citishopper price:  $209.
>
>Now granted, that's with delivery and all, but
>I'm wondering if there are any good deals with 
>this thing?  Is it worth keeping?  

I once tried and didn't like it. Their return policy stinks - unless
it's defective, they'll charge you a 15% restocking fee. In my
opinion a good return policy is worth at least 10% of the price.
Another thing I didn't like was that they charge your card immediately 
and then it takes them forever to ship (of course you are free to
cancel after 30 days, that's in compliance with federal mail order
laws, but if you keep waiting you'll eventually lose the right
to dispute your credit card bill).
Read carefully their membership agreement: they disclaim everything,
even the implied warranty. The way they work is that they give money
to a seller THEY select (you have nothing to say here) and then 
the only party responsible for anything is seller, not them. They are
just collecting toll.

Witold
From: gwn@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (gary.w.novak)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: College Financial Aid Services
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:36:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1992Oct12.213619.1169
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

Dear Netters,

I just saw my posting and found that the text was incoherent.  Iw as in
an editor that I don't like I kept making mistakes.  Sorry about the
garbled mess I previously sent.  Hope this clarifies what I really want to
send.

----------------------- editted text -------------------------------

My son will be going away to college next year and I'm looking for ways to
pay for the tuition.  I have been approached by College Financial Aid
Services who claim they can reduce tuition legally.  They also claim that
they are often confused with College Financial Aid Service who they claim
is unreputable.

I would like to know of your experiences with both services.  Were they
useful in fulfilling your financial needs?  What types of costs must one
pay to use their services?  What are the drawbacks of using such a
service as opposed to going out and finding financial aid on your own?

Please respond to me via e-mail or through this news group.

Gary W. Novak
AT&T Bell Laboratories 
Naperville, Il 60566 
..ihlnp4!ihlpy!gwn 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Revenge on a telemarketer!
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:02:55 GMT

In <oneil.719207596@cwis> oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:

>Are you serious?  Well, first of all, I don't think it was right for you to
>keep him on the line for five or ten minutes if you're really not interested.
>You could always hang up.  But he should not have hung the phone up on you.
>In fact, where I used to work, that is grounds for termination.  You /never/
>hang up on a customer, even if they don't purchase.  That's just plain rude.

I telemarketed one summer in college, and my experience was
somewhat different.  All calls were timed to the tenth of a
second, and performance evaluation included short average
time per call.  If someone obviously wasn't interested, it
was "Thank you for your time.  Goodbye!"

Besides, on good days half or more of my pay was sales
commissions, so there wasn't much incentive to struggle with
difficult customers.  If they decided later they really did
want what I was selling, they had an address to write for
details.

(Boy, was I glad when that summer ended and I could get back
to school . . . where I became a student caller for the
Alumni Fund :-)
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: neilw@informix.com (Neil Williams)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: How do I handle Phone harassment?
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:09:42 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Oct13.025648.9519@netcom.com> greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.211949.21237@informix.com> neilw@informix.com (Neil Williams) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct11.152712.4956@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>>>In article <cT2gsB5w165w@pcsnode.uucp> bazelmans@pcsnode.uucp (Rudy Bazelmans) writes:
>>>>
>>>>Simply report them to the phone company.  They will handle it.
>>>
>>>The phone company in all probability will do nothing. Their department
>>>that deals with investigating abusive phone calls is so swamped with
>>>work that you will probably get nothing but a busy signal when
>>>you try to call them.
>>
>>My experience backs this up.  My (now) wife had been receiving
>>harrassing phone calls for several months before she called the
>>phone company.  They told her they couldn't do anything and that
>>she had to file a police report. 
>
>My experience with Pacific Bell was exactly the contrary. I was getting
>a series of hang-up calls. I called Pac Bell, who asked me to file a
>police report, which is required to document the fact that the line
>is being monitored for good cause. This could be done both in San Jose
>and Santa Clara over the phone. 

Well, our situation was different.  I won't go into the history,
but the person calling was someone my wife knew slightly.  He
kept wanting a date - the conversation would usually go something
like "I just want to meet you for dinner", "Absolutely not.  Never.
I have no interest in ever talking to you again.  Do not call
me again.  Do you understand?" "Sure I understand.  But can you
just meet me once?"

Well, after about a year of this, we did file a police report,
and the police called the guy and threatened to arrest him if he
didn't stop calling.  The story actually doesn't end there, but
you get the idea.

I don't know what we expected from PacBell, but them cutting off
the guy's phone service would have been nice....

--Neil

-- 
Neil Williams: neilw@informix.com

Seen on my last trip on United: "If you are seated in an exit row 
and can not (sic) read this card... please notify a crew member."
From: joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Cable Bill Rip-off
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 01:51:09 EDT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

sean@sdg.dra.com writes:

> The method by which the cable companies get to retransmit the broadcast
> stations signals is economic baloney.  If I took TIME magazine and xeroxed
> a few million copies and sold them to people, Time-Warner would be all
> over me for copyright infringement.  Oh, sure, I'm increasing the
> number of readers for the advertisements in TIME magazine, so they should
> be grateful and that they can now charge more for advertising.  NOT!

There is one big flaw in your logic. They don't hand Time magazine out
free on every street corner. A more valid analogy would be these free
newspapers that get thrown on my yard whether I want them or not. I
doubt if they would object to doing what you describe, as long as they
could keep track of their readership and charge for the advertising
accordingly. Now if someone just copied the articles and put in their
own advertising, then they would probably have a beef.

If they want people to pay for their programming, then they should
stop broadcasting it.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982